# Looking for Advice



## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Here's some background:

My parents bought about 100 acres of property around southeast Ohio about 10 years or so ago with the intent of building a house there when they retire. It has a really nice 5 acre pond and we've caught a little bit of everything out of there. Here's a pic so you can get a general idea of what I'm talking about:








There are a series of ponds to the north that all run together. From my understanding it's a reclaimed strip mine area. The north end is surrounded by cattails and is only a few feet deep until about 20 feet after it opens up. After that it drops off bigtime. We dropped a cement block tied to a rope with knots every couple feet. Our ******* research puts the center of the pond at around 35 feet deep. On the south end it narrows back down and returns to just a couple of feet deep before dumping into a little stream that feeds the neighbors pond.
As far as fish goes it stays pretty consistent. HUGE largemouth are readily available, the biggest we pulled was about 23 inches and well over 6 pounds. Bluegill are pretty abundant, especially this time of year. We pulled about 20 today. In the early spring and fall white crappie absolutely take over the pond with an average size around 11-12 inches and as big as 16. Some days we'll go down and see a fair number of carp though I haven't been able to hook into any yet. I don't know if it was a fluke or what but in the middle of summer last year I got a 19 inch saugeye, the only one I've ever seen in there though it's deep enough there could be more. I've seen a couple of massive snapping turtles down there as well. Fortunately I haven't hooked into one yet. We release pretty much everything we catch.


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

This one is the most pertinent at the moment so I figured I'd ask it first. It deals with beavers...

We went today this morning and found the water up a few feet higher then normal. It hasn't rained much lately so we went down to the south end and sure enough, here's what we found:








The stream at the south end was completely dry from being blocked up. We hacked at it for about a half hour and managed to break it up enough for the water to flow through a few little channels. By the time we left about 5 hours later the entire lake had dropped a couple of inches. I'm sure the neighbors are thrilled. Haha. The beaver house is on the opposite side of the pond. I talked to my dad about it and he said he'd rather not trap them. He's kind of a conservationist at heart, but it really screws up the fishing. Are there any alternatives that will keep them from damming it up or am I gonna have to take a hoe and mattock down there with me every time I go?


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

In regards to species management. From what I've read, crappie are really bad for small ponds and the way they take over in the fall/early spring has me concerned. Should I be, or is it not really an issue over 5 acres? Most of them are about this size.









My dad has also talked about stocking some other kinds of fish. He's mentioned catfish a couple of times. I told him absolutely no bullheads. He's thinking of stocking some channels and I was wondering what you guys thought. Would they compete too much with the bass? Would they be able to spawn in a pond this size and would that become a problem down the road? If we do stock, how many and what size? Neither of us really wants to mess with the quantity/size of bass down there but it'd be fun to hook into some big channels.

The weeds in the shallows get really bad mid summer. Is there anything we could stock to thin them out or is it something we'll just have to deal with?


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Structure and deep fishing tactics.

We've dropped a couple trees along the shore on the west side just before it narrows. It drops off pretty quickly here and now every time we go this is a sure spot to pull out dozens of crappies or bluegill with worms. There are also several other spots where the beavers have dragged trees down and they turn out to be good fish producing spots.

We have a lot of downed trees at our disposal and a pile of clay pipes with more readily available (we live in Uhrichsville, at one time known as the clay capital of the world, now the stuff is just laying around everywhere.) Does anyone have any suggestions on placement to attract certain species?

I was also wondering how you would go about fishing in the deep sections of the lake and if it would be helpful to place any kind of structure there. I would imagine in the dog days of summer that's where they are all hiding. Any advice is appreciated.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

#1:Sorry not much experience with Beaver
#2: White crappie spawns can be sporadic. They're a problem sometimes and sometimes not. The condition of the crappie should tell you if you have too many and if thinning is needed. A Wr chart (relative weight) will help get a picture of the condition of the population. These charts are based off averages throughout the year so it's good to sample fish thoughout the season then average the weights of certain size classes to compare to the chart. White crappie shouldn't be stocked but since they're already there best to try to manage them. They will have an effect on largemouth bass growth because they are foraging on the same prey. A 23" bass should probably be closer to 7.5lb+ this time of year so you may be seeing the results of competition of the crappie or maybe other bass. Channel cats are the catfish best suited. They probably won't reproduce unless there's cavelike places for them to spawn in (tires, buckets, barrels, tiles). Not stocking more than you plan to eat the next couple of years is a good strategy. You won't catch them all and a few will grow pretty big pretty fast...over 8lbs in a few years is very possible. Larger channels compete for the same forage fish as the bass and crappie.

Some grass carp would be a good addition to help keep the weeds in check if your particular weeds are on their menu. Don't go crazy maybe 8 or 10 12inchers this year then add a few more every couple of years. If you're not happy with the grass carp progress, you can treat with chemicals early in next Spring and let the grass carp maintain. They prefer young plants to old. If you're planning to add some desireable plants though you may want avoid them.

#3 A good rule of thumb for structure is 10-15% of the bottom. That's a combined area 100'x150' for a three acre pond. Structure isn't required to grow fish but it will attract fish giving you a place(s) to concentrate fishing on. Most fish will hang out in water less than 8'. It doesn't hurt to put some structure just above where the thermocline forms in mid to late summer. Deeper than the thermocline really won't benefit the fish or fishing since O2 levels won't be favorable, that is if your pond forms a thermocline. There may be enough water flowing through to keep this from happening. The county's soil and water dept may be able to help find out how much water is flowing through your pond. 

Thanks for the photos and keep us updated on your adventure.


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback! We're heading down Saturday morning so we'll see if the beavers got back to work, I'm sure they did. We're probably going to have a fish fry so if we pull any crappie we'll cook 'em up. My dad is a fire fighter and one of his buddies from work scuba dives for fun so he might come down and give us a better idea of depth around the pond. I'll keep you updated.


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Well me and two of my buddies were back down there today. Beaver were back to work and built the dam back up so I started the day by tearing it down again with a mattock. Water was even higher this time than before. Between the three of us we caught 3 dink bass and 2 white crappie. Put the crappie on a stringer hoping to get enough for lunch. When we pulled them up at the end of the afternoon one was missing its tail. Looks like a turtle got to it. Caught more ticks than fish. Does anyone know of a way to deter beaver without trapping or shooting them? 

Also found a couple worm containers and a broken fishing pole so I was not a happy camper. There is a fence on the open ends of the valley and no trespassing signs plastered everywhere. They were taking our john boat and leaving it on the other side of the lake so we had to walk around to get it but I chained it to a tree a couple of trips ago and left a note stating they were trespassing on private property. Suggestions on how to deal with that issue?


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

If properly posted, it's best not to engage yourself. Notify law enforcement/game warden. A strategically mounted game camera or two can help identify them...just make sure it's hidden or they might steal/destroy it. If you really want to go James Bond and don't mind the monthly fee get one that emails real time photos via cellular.

People who take fish should receive the same punishment as someone who steals livestock IMO.


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm pretty sure it's some kids who live on top of the hill on the far side, though I imagine it could be some adults who are just as stupid. Everytime I find a pole it seems to be a cheap kids one, and a couple trips ago I actually found some boxers laying on the ground...  Gonna go play detective later this week and see if I can find a trail where they're coming down. The problem with involving the police is the only way in is to hike through the woods or offroad down some pretty overgrown trails., I usually do the latter in my jeep. I thought about asking the neighbors in the valley if they could keep an eye out but it may be them who are doing it.


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## mikeindy (Jun 28, 2011)

Thems some SWEET fish, there!!!


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Well, went up today and posted some signs right around the pond. Between me and my dad we caught two dink bass and two tiny bluegill. Beaver dam is completely rebuilt since Saturday. I'm starting to think whoever has been fishing pulled a lot of fish out of there, especially the big bass. It used to be hit after hit after hit and never left without catching at least an 18 incher. Biggest in the last two months? About 13. Not good.

This guy may end up being target practice next time.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

It sure wouldn't hurt to contact the suspects and without accusations let them know that only the owners are to be on your property due to damages you've incurred. To avoid conflict you could play it like you would like for them to keep an eye out and report any trespassers while letting them know you are giving the same info to other neighbors, the sheriff, and wildlife officers. Word usually spreads pretty quickly and even if it's not who you think it is, they may know who it is and let them know.


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## Dragons4u (Jul 18, 2011)

You can try live trapping them and contact the DNR about a place to transfer them too. Where I work, the company owns a pond that the employees are allowed to fish. A few years ago, a couple of beavers came in and destroyed all the trees around the pond, so they were trapped and relocated. Once they were gone, access to the pond for fishing has never been better....except for the lack of shade around the edges.


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Took a bunch of friends down yesterday. It was kind of a late birthday party, six of us total. Took the chainsaw after those storms rolled through the other day I figured there would be a tree or two down. It was a million times worse then I expected.

First problem was we couldn't even get in the gate. The tree that we chain the gate to to lock it snapped off at the base, bent the gate and embedded the chain in what was left of the tree. Took us a while to get that straightened. 
















Once we did we walked down the hill and realized there were probably about 40 trees down on the road we've spent weeks making and a lot of trees were snapped but still hung up. 








While we were there you could still hear trees falling, it's an absolute mess. Normally from this view you would see nothing but trees... 
















We decided to go ahead and walk down anyway and it doesn't seem the storm affected the pond. With this recent dry spell the beaver dam has actually kept the pond at about normal levels. We did go down this spring and tear it out with the tractor but they built it right back up. Fishing was a little slow. My buddy picked up a nice largemouth right off the bat. Gills were hitting about anything and got a few crappie too.
















Remember how I said I didn't think there were channels in there? I guess I was wrong. Heading down tomorrow probably to clean out some trees and take some chicken livers with me to try and do some research.


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## bountyhunter (Apr 28, 2004)

you need to make the beavers a main job, theres no way you can out de build them. what you do in a day 5hey can double rebuild overnight. trap or shoot.


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## Carpman (May 18, 2005)

Yea what he said. You have to get rid of the beavers........


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

I used to fish a farm pond when I was younger and the farmer had hybrid catfish put in the pond. I don't know for sure but the one in your pic looks really close. The farmer never let anyone take the catfish because they weren't supposed to reproduce. Fished there for years and every catfish I ever caught was about the same size too. May want to see if that's what you have there.

As for the beaver I would shoot'em, or have it trapped and relocated. Otherwise you're chasing your tail trying to keep them from rebuilding.....

I don't always fish for Bass, but when I do, I prefer big'uns. Fish hard my friends....


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Trust me guys, if it was up to me the beaver would've been gone a long time ago. Like I said the stumbling block here is convincing pops. He's quite content with digging the dam out with the backhoe and waiting for it to drain some when he wants to fish which is maybe three times a year. I'm down there at least three times a month, and it's getting ridiculous. When my buddies come down we usually shoot some clays so I keep hoping we'll "accidentally" shoot the darn things but they're never out when we're shooting. 

I have seen some plans for putting up a culvert with a fence or a hidden pipe to trick them into not realizing its open but I haven't found any plans that really look like they'll work. With that storm that went through the other day the beaver have a lot of new ammunition.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Looks like a fun day worth the trouble of getting to the pond. There's quite a variety of fish in there. 

The good news is that after the storm in 2009 and this year, the trees should be pretty well pruned....at least until the next ice storm anyway.

Did you get rid of the poachers?


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

No sign of anyone else being down there yet this year. Ever since we put the signs in and chained up the boat they are at least being more sneaky about it if they are still fishing there. We're heading down tomorrow morning to see what's biting then.


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## moosejohn (Feb 25, 2010)

i have a good amount of knoledge about beavers impossible to tear down they will always rebuild fast! also you cant fool them with a culvert they will just dam that also trust me shoot them at dawn or dusk and what pop doesnt know wont hurt him eventually more will move in you can deal with them then. good luck


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

BigTripp, Hopefully you scared the poachers off. Your bass look kind of skinny.Your idea of putting more structure in (shallow water) will give the fry a place to grow up. I think some of those nice sized crappies took advantage of the shortage of hiding spots for the smaller fish.

Did the guy ever come out and scuba dive the pond? And if he did, what did he tell you?


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## dmaphukn (Apr 3, 2009)

Yea those crappie can be a problem, if you need me to come clear some of them out, let me know

D.


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## selfproclaim (May 19, 2011)

Start keeping crappie and bluegill twice per year and have a nice fish fry. This will cut down the competition for food and help the bass population. 


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## Bigun (Jun 20, 2006)

Saw something once about beaver control, they took about 100 feet of plastic corrugated drain put one end anchored under a float in the middle of the pond, and ran the other end through the beaver dam. The beaver dam is then in the middle of the tile. Don't know how effective it is but it looked interesting and plausible.

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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

We tried the corrugated drain pipe the last time we tore it out about two months ago. It wasn't draining enough water to make a difference and the next time I came down there was black pipe mixed in with the sticks and bushes.


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Our scuba diving friend moved to Texas before he got a chance to come out. We started marking some structure. Threw some of the trees from the big storm in and we have a bunch of tires that I'm making some cover out of to put in. Also might take the backhoe down and dig some trenches in the shallower sections just to make some little shelves and break up the flat bottom.

I tried some Senkos for the first time today and the big bass were tearing them up. Got five about three pounds in about two hours this morning before it got real hot.


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Well, the beaver may have been a blessing in disguise. Went down this past weekend for the first time since my last post in late June. Despite the lack of rain this year the beaver dam kept the pond at about normal summer pool and the water was crystal clear. Caught 26 bass including these three piggies. The big ones seemed to have a little more weight on them than the ones caught even a year ago. A ton of small minnows around the shore and a lot of small bluegill eating grass clippings after I brush hogged.

18.5








21 








22 









Since we had the surprise channel last time I ran to Walmart and got some livers. Went down for a couple of hours. Got one 18 inch channel and the fattest bullhead I've ever seen in my life. The bullheads are going to join the crappie in going either in the cooler or the weeds. We were thinking about stocking some channels but with the nice size of the bass and a couple of good size cats we're going to hold off until we get a little bigger sample to figure out exactly what we have in there.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Good looking fish BigTripp. Wise decision to hold off on stocking until the pond could be assessed. The bass look healthy. The clear water probably has a lot to do with the weeds filtering it and lack of flow. 

When's the cabin being built?


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Um not a hybrid catfish, they are test tube babies and for the most part rare. They are fun to talk about and many people claim to catch or have them but......no.

That is a hog of a black bullhead and lots of other good looking fish too.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

I agree that it's not a hybrid but they aren't rare in the pond world. Around 1/4 of the catfish fry produced for aquaculture operations are Blue/channel hybrids and this number is growing yearly due to their faster, more consistant growth to market size and better fillet yield. 

Naturally produced hybrids are extremely rare, nearly impossible, but with the increase in privately/commercially stocked hybrid catfish, increases in catches from public waters are to be expected. That said, it is very difficult to visually identify a hybrid catfish with certainty as they look very similar to both parents or one varying across the spectrum just as members from each species often exhibit a wide range characteristics.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

As far as the fish business I don&#8217;t have as much experience with catfish. From the limited info I could find, it looks like more than half of that- 12%. This is still more than I expected. That number could be wrong just because it is only looking at MISS and ALB and those are farmers fry producing est. I found no info on sales. True percentages could be higher or lower?

Where is the closest place to buy these hybrid cats because I don&#8217;t know of any in our range. I don't know anyone who has them or sells them. I have never seen or caught one or talked to anyone who has. So I would still call them "for the most part rare". 

I know some farms are being accused of and few have been caught selling channels as hybrid catfish. And why wouldn&#8217;t they, there is not a person here who could tell the difference. I don&#8217;t think you should be able to sell fish that don&#8217;t cross in nature. What if the F1s are more likely to cross with the parent or each other. Human influence tends to not work out too well with nature. And if they say they won&#8217;t cross, that is just a guess.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread
Those really are some nice looking fish. Looks like you have a nice getaway there and good luck with the beavers.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Rustyfish, I was going from memory when I wrote "about 1/4" so your 12% is probably more accurate as in 2011 it was 15% based on the article, the percentage is expected to climb to 31% by 2014. 2012 numbers are maybe 20% based on the below if production increases are as expected and consumption remains constant.

"In 2011, six catfish hatcheries in Mississippi and Arkansas produced an estimated 111 million hybrid fry. If these estimates were correct, hybrid fry constituted 15 per cent of the 732 million channel catfish fry produced in 2011. Hybrid fry production is projected to exceed 200 million by 2014."
http://www.gaalliance.org/mag/2012/Mar-Apr/download.pdf

Good In-Fisherman article on the subject
http://archives.in-fisherman.com/content/Trophy-Catfish/4

Closest place to Waverly is probably: About 3 HR drive.
Aquila International Inc
437 Duell Dr
Versailles, KY 40383-1412
(859) 873-7016

Inquiry into OSU Extension would be worth a try as OSU is currently researching them.

I can't say what kind of damage escape would cause. I would say worse case impact would be similar to saugeye on wild walleye or sauger and more likely the effect would probably be similar impact as Hybrid striped bass on white bass....just guessing though. This guess is based on the fact that these hybrids are similarly functionally sterile. I would suspect that the answers would be different depending on who you ask.
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/...ia/MBA_SeafoodWatch_USFarmedCatfishReport.pdf


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

OSU is not researching them, at least on any scale larger than lab room fish tanks and I'm not aware of that either.

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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Went down for the first time this year. The beaver dam is at the highest point ever and the water was very murky. There was just a ton of dead weeds and crap everywhere, I'm guessing from the lack of flow. No sign of the beaver anywhere which is unusual since we were down there all day. I'm hoping they finally moved on. There was a nice six point buck down on the other side of the pond about 15 feet from the water with the rack still intact. It had a busted rib and looked like if may have been shot and someone couldn't track it. Coyotes have got to it since then. Didn't manage many fish but the ones we did get were monsters.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

BigTripp, nice fish... I just picked out one of your videos ( Labor Day Fishing) and loved it . Great choice of songs and your honey to go along with the video. I'm going to check out the rest of your videos later. 

Also, you have a great sounding band...(I watched two).


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## BigTripp (Oct 1, 2010)

Thank you sir. I'm planning to put up a lot more fishing videos this summer, started getting into that late last fall. If you're interested I also have a new band I just joined a couple of weeks ago now


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