# Indian Lake Elk Killed



## zpyles_00 (Dec 15, 2004)

http://indianlake.com/hunting.htm

i'm sorry but how the hell is there no form of punishment for this? the article makes it sound as if they were rewarded for the kill!?!?!?!


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## alumcreeker (Nov 14, 2008)

last year maybe 2yrs ago there were a herd of elk that got loose from a high fenced property in NW ohio. the dnr wanted them all killed asap. i guess elk are not wanted in ohio. sad though i think it would be pretty neat.


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## CHOPIQ (Apr 6, 2004)

There was an elk running around St Marys a few years ago and the game wardens told anyone that sees it to shoot it. Since elk don't naturally "live" in Ohio they are considered a nuisance animal. The game wardens don't want it to spread diseases.


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## zpyles_00 (Dec 15, 2004)

guess i'll never understand the law, shoot a cardinal, or a blue jay, hawk, etc.... keep a fish 1" under the size limit or keep one fish over yourt limit and ODNR is on you like a condemned fellon, shoot a 500lb elk which there is no season for and get a handshake and a pat on the back..............


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## zpyles_00 (Dec 15, 2004)

at one point in history elk were very common in ohio, don't recall exactly what pushed them out, i think it was the developing of the canal systems by the army corps of engineers or something. 

guess it's hard for any species to naturaully live in an area when odnr is ordering the slaughter of the animals


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

in the article, it's said that they thought it was a doe whitetail.

Ohio used to be a wilderness...what management you got is orientated toward selling licenses and viewing wildlife as 'problems' for suburbanites and farmers.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Hmm the law says any animal not listed on the hunting laws are protected species. So this don't make any sence at all.


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## Redhunter1012 (Feb 6, 2006)

Smead said:


> in the article, it's said that they thought it was a doe whitetail.
> 
> Ohio used to be a wilderness...what management you got is orientated toward selling licenses and viewing wildlife as 'problems' for suburbanites and farmers.


Maybe you guys should try hunting and fishing in other states if you think ODNR sucks so bad. I'm telling you, Ohio is a sportsmans paradise compared to just about every other stae. Especially considering the quality of fishing and hunting there is and the cheap prices to pursue them. Not quite sure what everyone expects of our ODNR. Who gives a crap about an escaped Cow Elk. Somewbody had it as a pet and probably turned it loose somewhere. Can you imagine the outcry if the DNR protected it and it ran in front of a family car with kids in it and they hit it?


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## Hatchetman (Apr 13, 2004)

I don't understand the problem with shooting the cow elk. Zyples 00, do you feel the same about shooting hogs that escape from game farms and tear up the countryside ? These animals are on game farms, if they escape they are fair game and no deer tag is needed for the Elk. Same way with Fallow(spel) deer, there is usually one or two a year shot in the state. By eliminating these "farm" animals the ODNR are protecting our wildlife from disease. As Red said, go to some othere states and talk to locals about their DNR. Ohio consistantly ranks near the top for it's ODNR which is amazing with the little money the state actually gives them to operate. What do we average, less than 2 game protecters per county ? Gotta have some real bad luck to get caught doing something wrong. Just my opinion. By the way, if I saw that Elk in the woods, it would hit the ground just like that one did. Lotsa good eating there !!


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

I don't understand what the problem is here either? It's not a wild elk..it's an escapee capable of doing damage to crops.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

If it wasnt for ODNR you wouldn't have much hunting or fishing in Ohio. At one time our game was almost depleted. ODNR stocked deer from all over. Pheasants for one is not native here but with good programs they are back. Same with Erie it use to catch fire it was so poluted. Now its one of the greatest fisheries in the world. I've been a hunters saftey instructor for a long time and have attended district three meetings and recieve ODNRs letter so I get to hear quite a bit. They are unsung heros in my book. Just because they dont brag about what they do or dont do dosn't make them bad in my book. Just my opionion.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

viper1 said:


> .... They are unsung heros in my book. Just because they dont brag about what they do or dont do dosn't make them bad in my book. Just my opionion.


I agree 100%


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## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

Elk vs car full of family....sorry, deer are bad enough let alone an Elk. I travel frequently by auto in areas where there are Elk and others where Moose are present, if you hit either the end result can be disastrous, usually a fatality for the driver. The ODNR made the correct call on this one!


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## Robalo R200 (Sep 17, 2010)

Elfs should not be killed,especially at Christmas time. They need to be making toys for your kids. You did say elfs did'nt you !


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

viper1 said:


> If it wasnt for ODNR you wouldn't have much hunting or fishing in Ohio. They are unsung heros in my book. Just because they dont brag about what they do or dont do dosn't make them bad in my book. Just my opionion.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well said. Your opinion is shared by many sportsmen


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## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

Robalo R200 said:


> Elfs should not be killed,especially at Christmas time. They need to be making toys for your kids. You did say elfs did'nt you !


 That changed the whole context of my reply, thanks for pointing that out, got me laughing and I didn't mean to spell Elf.


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## LilSiman/Medina (Nov 30, 2010)

This is totally messed up... Elk would be a great hunting opportunity here on Ohio when they reach a successfull and sustaining population... not like this


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

Well, if people are worried about hitting animals with their car...then all the whitetail should be exterminated too...for safety...also, probably all horses, cattle and hogs...they might get out on the road too.

Large dogs may have to go as well.

Thinking about it some more...children afoot and especially on their bikes pose a serious threat to motorists...get rid of them!!


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## Robalo R200 (Sep 17, 2010)

mushroomman said:


> That changed the whole context of my reply, thanks for pointing that out, got me laughing and I didn't mean to spell Elf.


Just kidding you mushroomman . I think I'm going crazy because I have not fished Erie for 2 weeks


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

viper1 said:


> If it wasnt for ODNR you wouldn't have much hunting or fishing in Ohio. At one time our game was almost depleted. ODNR stocked deer from all over. Pheasants for one is not native here but with good programs they are back. Same with Erie it use to catch fire it was so poluted. Now its one of the greatest fisheries in the world. I've been a hunters saftey instructor for a long time and have attended district three meetings and recieve ODNRs letter so I get to hear quite a bit. They are unsung heros in my book. Just because they dont brag about what they do or dont do dosn't make them bad in my book. Just my opionion.


I won't bash ODNR indiscriminately, but I will question their actions, procedures and priorities as I would any government entity acting on my behalf and spending taxpayer dollars.

One overiding issue is money for programs, actions and staff...from outright tree hugging environmentalism to game management and everything in between, if you want better it requires the funds to accomplish it.

One criticism is that they put too much empahsis on managing wildlife resources to sell hunting and fishing licenses, not so much to manage a healthy ecostystem and habitats for all wildlife, not just game animals, but which would allow a sustainable harvest of game animals.

That might be somewhat unfair, as ODNR is composed of more than just Division of Wildlife...just spend some time poking around the ODNR website looking at all that they are doing.

Many people may not realize it, but their programs to aquire conservation easements along waterways is more important to fishing quality than periodic stockings of any one species. One thing they could do better is have increased emphasis on riverine systems management and harvest enforcement.

Then there is the public and what they make a priority...many people here don't want to live in a real wilderness with all the wildlife intact, theres farmers concerned with their agricultural businesses being impacted, sportsmen who don't see the need to manage nongame species, people who don't like blood sports and won't support ODNR because of it. Grounds for a lot of conflict.

Regarding improvements in environmental conditions and ongoing work in this area, there is far more involved than just the ODNR...quite a few people and groups are involved. Since the late 1960's/early 1970's there has been a societal shift regarding environmental protection...as a reaction to how bad things had become. I mark this as beginning with the Federal Clean Air and Clean Water Acts. All of what has been done is extremely expensive...just think about the costs for sewage and wastewater systems alone over the last 40 years.


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## "Big" mark the shark (Jan 21, 2010)

I believe that elk was wonted by the FBI for the deth of rudolph.And a liquer store robery.


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## flytyer (Jan 3, 2005)

Last year a guy shot a bull elk down around Marysville. He took it to the check station and they couldn't do anything with because it wasn't a deer. The guy at the check station called the local game warden and he went over and checked it out. They went thru all the laws and there are no laws about shooting elk in Ohio. 
The state says it's OK to shoot them if you see them same as wild hogs and fallow deer.
Here's the article that was in the Lima news about it last year.


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## ASTONECOLD1 (Nov 12, 2009)

Pa and Kentucky have strands of wild elk in them . This could be a cow that couldve traveled from Pa into the state or even Kentucky . I remember hearing about an elk being hit near Youngstown last year or the year before by a car . Why not let them be and see what happens .


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## zpyles_00 (Dec 15, 2004)

i have no problem with hogs or fallow deer or elk being shot for that matter but i believe there should be a season for them just like any other species in ohio if odnr in fact wants the population controlled. 

I don't agree with odnr or anyone using the excuse of the animal is possibly spreading disease either. It's unfair to assume that just because the animal came from a farm that it had a disease, thats like being presumed guilty before proven innocent in a court of law. 

I'd like to see how ODNR thinks that they could prove that that elk came from a farm and hadn't migrated here from PA or KY, an ear tag from being on a farm would be obvious of course.

I agree that hitting an elk with a car would obviously be worst than hittin a deer. But as mentioned horses, cows, etc... can get loose from a farm and be hit by vehicles just as easily and i gaurantee there are more cattle and horse farms in ohio than elk. 

People are worried about hitting a few game animals here and there, i'm telling you right now, the only animals i'm worried about getting into in an accident with is the millions of them that i share the road with everyday who think they need to text, talk and drink and drive while on the roads.


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## fishintechnician (Jul 20, 2007)

Smead said:


> Well, if people are worried about hitting animals with their car...then all the whitetail should be exterminated too...for safety...also, probably all horses, cattle and hogs...they might get out on the road too.
> 
> Large dogs may have to go as well.
> 
> Thinking about it some more...children afoot and especially on their bikes pose a serious threat to motorists...get rid of them!!


Well if it was up to the insurance companys they would get rid of all the deer in ohio, They supposedly released alot coyotes around here in the mid 90's to hel pcontrol the deer pops. so that there would be less auot accidents involving deer. Now the yotes are out of control and have seriously damged the smal game pop but deer numbers are still up.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

REVISED CODE OF OHIO
1531.02 State ownership of wild animals.
The ownership of and the title to all wild animals in this state, not legally confined
or held by private ownership legally acquired, is in the state, which holds such title in trust
for the benefit of all the people. Individual possession shall be obtained only in accordance
with the Revised Code or division of wildlife orders."""" No persons shall at any time of the
year take in any manner or possess any number or quantity of wild animals, except such
wild animals as the Revised Code or division orders permit to be taken, hunted, killed, or
had in possession,""""" and only at such time and place, and in such manner, as the Revised
Code or division orders prescribe.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Oftentimes, the owners of exotic game/animals would prefer that an escaped animal be killed rather than be held liable for damages caused the escaped animal. I know of two instances (an ostrich and some african cowlike animal) where this was the case.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

zpyles_00 said:


> I agree that hitting an elk with a car would obviously be worst than hittin a deer. But as mentioned horses, cows, etc... can get loose from a farm and be hit by vehicles just as easily and i gaurantee there are more cattle and horse farms in ohio than elk.
> 
> .


ive seen twice, a horse running along side the road (rt 28 near chillicothe) more then twice, a cow crossing a road, once saw a dead one in the median on rt 35 near athens. ive seen a group of wild hogs cross the road also in ross county. never seen an elk, i wonder how the farmer would have felt if i had got out of my truck and blasted his horse especially if i used the excuse that it might have a disease.


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## sully (Jun 24, 2007)

for what it's worth


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## killingtime (Apr 29, 2009)

zpyles_00 said:


> i have no problem with hogs or fallow deer or elk being shot for that matter but i believe there should be a season for them just like any other species in ohio if odnr in fact wants the population controlled.
> 
> I don't agree with odnr or anyone using the excuse of the animal is possibly spreading disease either. It's unfair to assume that just because the animal came from a farm that it had a disease, thats like being presumed guilty before proven innocent in a court of law.
> 
> ...


the odnr has done a good job for our wildlife and fisheries and make good decisions that are best for our future. quit complaining about it and move on. it was the right choice to kill the animal for all reasons that have been stated. if you dont like the decision the odnr made then dont support them them by buying licenses anymore. that will teach them. good grief move on.


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

The winter has just begun and already you guys are killling me ! LOL


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## ASTONECOLD1 (Nov 12, 2009)

I really didnt see the post getting out of hand or anybody really complaining to warrant a response of " quit complaining " and " if you dont like the decision the odnr made then dont support them them by buying licenses anymore. that will teach them. good grief move on. " 
I think a little overboard , but than again what else is new here .


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## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

Smead said:


> Well, if people are worried about hitting animals with their car...then all the whitetail should be exterminated too...for safety...also, probably all horses, cattle and hogs...they might get out on the road too.
> 
> Large dogs may have to go as well.
> 
> Thinking about it some more...children afoot and especially on their bikes pose a serious threat to motorists...get rid of them!!


For reminding me why I quit posting on this board, I really was just trying to toss out probable justification for allowing this to happen. I knew I should have just kept my thoughts to myself, I guess too many nights and predawn saugeye trips these last few days have frozen my thought process. 
Heck let's bring back the free roaming herds of Buffalo too 
I'll go back to lurking and the marketplace where I belong......
Have a wonderful winter, I'll be fishing...and dreaming of the morel season ahead.


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## killingtime (Apr 29, 2009)

no a little overboard is starting 2 threads about this. one in the fishing section and one in the hunting lodge. i think its a little overboard. no need to start 2 different threads to make a point. i am done with this. carry on. 7 posts since 2009. i guess you have put a lot of good information on this site worth talking about. now i am done.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

pyles,

I think you're being a bit overzealous in your argument. If it was obvious that numerous elk were calling Ohio home from Pennsylvania, it would be different. That simply aint the case here. If you really want to get technical, *the elk in Pennsylvania are not the native strain for the area.* In fact, the Eastern/Woodland strain of Elk is extinct. All the ones running around in Penn./Ky are of the Rocky Mtn. bloodline, I believe. Until (if ever) there are a large amount of &#8220;native&#8221; Elk in Ohio, the DNR is not going to consider protecting them. Same deal with the supposed wolf and mountain lion populations that some people claim are making their way back into this state. Get over it bro. That&#8217;s the best advice you&#8217;re going to get.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

zpyles_00 said:


> People are worried about hitting a few game animals here and there, i'm telling you right now, the only animals i'm worried about getting into in an accident with is the millions of them that i share the road with everyday who think they need to text, talk and drink and drive while on the roads.


Yes, that particular species does need to be thinned to protect property owners.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Smead said:


> Yes, that particular species does need to be thinned to protect property owners.


LOL!


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

fishintechnician said:


> Well if it was up to the insurance companys they would get rid of all the deer in ohio, They supposedly released alot coyotes around here in the mid 90's to hel pcontrol the deer pops. so that there would be less auot accidents involving deer. Now the yotes are out of control and have seriously damged the smal game pop but deer numbers are still up.


I guess that nobody did the research indicating what coyote eat, if they were planned to control whitetail deer.

Though to be fair...coyote have migrated in for the most part, somewhat filling a niche that used to be held by wolves.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Coyote do chase/kill deer if given a chance. Usually they will not take down the big bucks, but have seen them chasing smaller deer on numerous occasions. I saw two of the buggers exhaust a yearling/smallish doe on two occasions during January/February of last year. That spot has been nearly void of deer this year. We used to call it 'the petting zoo'.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

killingtime said:


> the odnr has done a good job for our wildlife and fisheries and make good decisions that are best for our future. quit complaining about it and move on. it was the right choice to kill the animal for all reasons that have been stated. if you dont like the decision the odnr made then dont support them them by buying licenses anymore. that will teach them. good grief move on.


As reported, the hunter killed the animal because he thought it was a doe whitetail...understandable...and the ODNR was contacted.

More difficult to explain shooting your hunting partner because you thought that he was a doe whitetail...so circumstances are better than they could be.

I wonder whether under the ODNR you can snag a fishing partner legally because **** sapiens aren't specifically listed as a game fish?? 

Not the biggest deal taking the elk...bet6ter if there were a sustainable population in the state...even if an introduced strain because the original subspecies was killed off.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

Mushijobah said:


> Coyote do chase/kill deer if given a chance. Usually they will not take down the big bucks, but have seen them chasing smaller deer on numerous occasions. I saw two of the buggers exhaust a yearling/smallish doe on two occasions during January/February of last year. That spot has been nearly void of deer this year. We used to call it 'the petting zoo'.


Dogs will do the same thing...target of opportunity...young/small/weak prey.

Then there's the arguement that there are too many deer in Ohio.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

mushroomman said:


> For reminding me why I quit posting on this board, I really was just trying to toss out probable justification for allowing this to happen. I knew I should have just kept my thoughts to myself, I guess too many nights and predawn saugeye trips these last few days have frozen my thought process.
> Heck let's bring back the free roaming herds of Buffalo too
> I'll go back to lurking and the marketplace where I belong......
> Have a wonderful winter, I'll be fishing...and dreaming of the morel season ahead.


IIRC, Battelle-Darby is going to have some buffalo...have to see whether I can find that link.

I'm being mild...though I'm sure that there's at least one guy in Ohio advocating wiping out bald eagles because they take fish.

You need all species present for a heathly habitat...from bacteria to bears...yanking stuff out works as well as pulling seemingly useless parts off of your car's motor.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

Funny how everything really is relative when you ponder it.

Here in Columbus...people would be horrified by the presence of a wolf or two...while highly evolved cimpanzees have managed to kill 102 citizens so far this year. That's via homocide...I wonder how they record the traffic fatalities in the mix??


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

I agree with zpyles. I think we all should be allowed to introduce anything we want into the state and see how it does. 
I think it's great that we have deer ticks in Coshocton County now! 
I know I really missed coming home from a northwoods grouse hunt on a sunny 40 degree day, with snow on the ground, and having to pull twenty of those SOB's off my dog. 
Nice to see we finally have them here in Ohio!


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Smead said:


> You need all species present for a heathly habitat...from bacteria to bears...yanking stuff out works as well as pulling seemingly useless parts off of your car's motor.


True, but the fine tuning of "useless parts" can produce a more-efficient (or desired) power-train. 

*stirs the pot*....it's Winter afterall


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

I was wondering something,if i hit someones' cow that's crossing the road do I get to keep the milk and or meat?

If there's too many deer roaming around Ohio then why not let hunters take 4 every other hunting season for a little while too help thin down the population?

I can't believe that some folks that have posted on this topic have seemingly been offended by some of the posts,now they're gonna go hide again or something.Jeez people this what makes America great,a diversity of opinions.I still say that some people need to lighten up a little bit and quit getting upset whenever there's a good discussion brewing.


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## zpyles_00 (Dec 15, 2004)

lol i love the responses and reactions i simply voice my "opinion" on how i'd like to see the situation handled and some folks act like i'm taking this straight to the govenor. 

can't wait till i'm on the ice and have better things to do than post on here, but yet then again i might just to stir the pot again.

didn't realize either that there was a certain number of post you had to make before you were worthy of starting/commenting on a subject. I apologize mr president


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## killingtime (Apr 29, 2009)

just got home from work and thought i would post again. while at work i thought about this thread and thought to myself for a minute or two. then i began to laugh a little while thinking about all the posts. i am sorry for coming across a little grumpy but i think in my own opinion that the right thing was done by shooting it even if the hunter thought it was a whitetail and didnt know. i should have stated better in my post that the odnr knows whats best for this situation and killing it was the best thing to do. the best thing to do is talk to someone from the odnr and find out the whole story rather than reading it from a newspaper. we all know how things get worded wrong and mis understood in the newspaper. i am sure more info will come out later. when you start a thread basically wanting opinions on a matter you cant get offended by them even when right or wrong. alot of good information was given on this thread by alot of people so take it in stride even if its wrong and dont be so quick to blame the odnr or other people until all the facts are given out. again i am sorry. well i guess i should have waited awhile for my post. i guess there is more than one person besides myself that needs to grow up.


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## Clayton (Oct 7, 2008)

I understand the DNR's position on this... It's better to shoot it than to have someone hit it with their car and die.


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## puterdude (Jan 27, 2006)

killingtime,great post.That's how it should be done on this site in my opinion .It's okay to have a different opinion or train of thought.But when we start insulting,embarassing,belittling, others whom are diverse in theory than ours,that's when it gets out of line.I am sure there are a lot of us that would like to opine that just stay out of the conversation for fear of someone popping off,and to me that takes away from the conversation which limits the topic to some extend.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Smead said:


> You need all species present for a heathly habitat...from bacteria to bears...yanking stuff out works as well as pulling seemingly useless parts off of your car's motor.


removing those stupid smog pumps will give another 30 h.p. if you can handle not having a.c. you can get yourself another 20% on the top end and youll get better fuel milage. just sayin


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## ASTONECOLD1 (Nov 12, 2009)

I guess I missed the memo about having to post so many times in a year . I will try to work on that for you tho !


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## foundationfisher (May 12, 2008)

i wanted to stay out of this, but i need to add this. i went to tennesee a few years ago. they have a small, huntable elk population. stopped at a wal-mart to get my fishin license, and they had a huge sign warning hunters not to mistake young elk for deer. it told how to tell the difference, etc. how many of us go deer hunting in ohio, expecting to see an elk? maybe the guy thought he was shootin a big doe.


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## jeffmo (Apr 7, 2004)

it's a plain and simple fact that ohio is far too populated to have a herd of elk large enough to have hunting regulations on.
when i hunted in craig colorado we saw one herd(out of many)in migration that the dnr estimated to have about 3,500 elk in.that herd stretched out for about 2/3'rds of a mile!now,imagine that same herd migrating across I 77,71 or 75.we don't need elk in ohio.
and,to say that disease is not a factor is wrong.western states had to implement regulations to deal with enclosed elk because of chronic wasting disease.while we were the we had ours tested and luckily,they were negative.the dnr there and in other states were and are definately worried about disease spreading through their elk.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Come on this is what we need in downtown c-bus. Think of the tourists it brings in.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

lordofthepunks said:


> removing those stupid smog pumps will give another 30 h.p. if you can handle not having a.c. you can get yourself another 20% on the top end and youll get better fuel milage. just sayin


Excellent example...a modern engine is engineered to balance between power, fuel efficiency and emissions control...start disconnecting the emissions to get better fuel economy and power and you bump up the emissions...which is a negative effect. The A/C isn't a necessary system for the engine to work within it's power/economy/emissions parameters...you can look at that as your fishing and hunting...a possible sustainable harvest.

But what has occured with natural habitats and organisms is more akin to disconnecting sparkplug wires or not using an air filter.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

Snakecharmer said:


> Come on this is what we need in downtown c-bus. Think of the tourists it brings in.


You got thieves, rapists, gangbangers, murderers, aggressive panhandlers, drunks and drug addicts in downtown Columbus already...what's an elk compared to that?


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

jeffmo said:


> it's a plain and simple fact that ohio is far too populated to have a herd of elk large enough to have hunting regulations on.
> when i hunted in craig colorado we saw one herd(out of many)in migration that the dnr estimated to have about 3,500 elk in.that herd stretched out for about 2/3'rds of a mile!now,imagine that same herd migrating across I 77,71 or 75.we don't need elk in ohio.
> and,to say that disease is not a factor is wrong.western states had to implement regulations to deal with enclosed elk because of chronic wasting disease.while we were the we had ours tested and luckily,they were negative.the dnr there and in other states were and are definately worried about disease spreading through their elk.


All about management, you could have a sustainable population in the southeastern counties...you would not have them for hunting purposes alone, but hunting could be used to keep their numbers within limits that the land could sustain.

You don't establish populations for hunting...hunting is a management tool...you establish populations to aquire a natural balance of organisms.

What we take, hunting or fishing, is the interest derived from the capital of a balanced natural environment.


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## jeffmo (Apr 7, 2004)

Smead said:


> All about management, you could have a sustainable population in the southeastern counties...you would not have them for hunting purposes alone, but hunting could be used to keep their numbers within limits that the land could sustain.
> 
> You don't establish populations for hunting...hunting is a management tool...you establish populations to aquire a natural balance of organisms.
> 
> What we take, hunting or fishing, is the interest derived from the capital of a balanced natural environment.


not to come across as a smartazz but elk don't know one county from another and they will and do move long distances.
just me & my .02 cents worth but i don't believe Ohio should have them in the wild.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

jeffmo said:


> not to come across as a smartazz but elk don't know one county from another and they will and do move long distances.
> just me & my .02 cents worth but i don't believe Ohio should have them in the wild.


Not at all, it's a discussion...people will have different viewpoints...let's hash through it.

I think we should have them, any issues could be dealt with; not much different from managing whitetail properly...but proper management is essential.

Never say never...people never thought that bald eagles could be brought back...one reason being that they supposedly couldn't tolerate close human contact...this concept being proven false it seems.

Sometimes all the technical jargonese scares people off, or makes their eyes glaze over, regarding conservation and environmentalism.

It's simple...you have a working system with all of it's parts intact...or as much as possible; the challenge is pulling this off within the reality of a highly concentrated modern human culture with a lot of conflicting priorities. You'll never get back to the days when Ohio was a wilderness with the only human presence being simple hunter/gathers and essentially horticulturalists...but you can get close enough.

Conservation can be defined as mankind in harmony with nature...with as much nature as possible being the goal. It would be a poorer world and existence if everything wild was gone...pavement and concrete as far as the eye could see.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Smead said:


> Excellent example...a modern engine is engineered to balance between power, fuel efficiency and emissions control...start disconnecting the emissions to get better fuel economy and power and you bump up the emissions...which is a negative effect. The A/C isn't a necessary system for the engine to work within it's power/economy/emissions parameters...you can look at that as your fishing and hunting...a possible sustainable harvest.
> 
> But what has occured with natural habitats and organisms is more akin to disconnecting sparkplug wires or not using an air filter.


i was just playing around but i refuse to add those dumb smiley faces that denotes a joke.


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