# Close pheasant season



## ostbucks98

Just curious about the idea of the state closing pheasant season for two years while the state releases wild birds in strategic locations? 

Think it would help?


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## Chris_H

I think generally speaking the biggest reason for decline in all upland birds in Ohio is because of the lack of habitat for birds to survive. 

I follow many forums and groups that usually after lengthy discussion end with habitat. I have seen a petition circling for the start of an upland conservation stamp like the wetlands stamp that has much controversy. I would be in favor of anything that results in more birds locally, I'm not looking forward to a ten hour drive in the fall. 

Someone else with more knowledge and experience can likely shed more light on this.


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## ostbucks98

The cry for habitat is more a smokescreen cry for more land to hunt. You drive around ohio and there is plenty of suitable habitat.


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## garhtr

ostbucks98 said:


> The cry for habitat is more a smokescreen cry for more land to hunt. You drive around ohio and there is plenty of suitable habitat.


 Not sure where you are driving but Suitable habitat in my area seems to no longer exist. I used to hunt manly in Highland and Ross county's but almost all the fields we hunted are large expanses of open corn and bean fields with clean fence rows. Fallow fields and brushy woodlots are few and far between on the farms around me.
Unfortunately I haven't seen a wild Bird around here in several years and at one time birds were abundant.
I Sorely miss the Old Tradition of a Thanksgiving Day Pheasant hunt.
Loss of habitat IMO.


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## ostbucks98

I see wild birds every day in my travels up and down 56 and 207. Seen atleast 30 birds all together just west of circleville last week.


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## garhtr

Ostbucks, no question about it, still pheasant around were habitat exists. Unfortunately we will never have the number of birds in Ohio we once had. Habitat in many areas is gone and I don't see it returning anytime soon.


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## supercanoe

There is a lot of cover just west of Circleville.


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## bigeye1

It worked for turkey's. I remember when there were a select few counties to hunt turkey's in, and you hardly ever seen them. Ohio put a very successful reintroduction program together and now they are everywhere. I love the idea


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## supercanoe

You could close it for 100 years and it won't help anything. The birds can't survive with out cover. Good upland bird cover is scarce in Ohio. The existing pockets of suitable cover do have birds in them. I see and hear pheasants on an almost daily basis because I have CRP around me. If I go 1 mile down the road there are no pheasants because there is no grass.


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## ostbucks98

Pheasants are hardier than you give them credit for....ive released them in a clear cut right next to the house about 5 years ago and I see the birds out about almost weekly.


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## garhtr

I agree with supercanoe-- birds will only survive if they have the appropriate habitat, hunting and predators will have little impact on numbers if they have the right cover .


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## Angler ss

Just my 2 cents don't hang me for my opinion but I am a member of a small conservation club we release 500 pheasants a year. Within 1 month of the end of the pheasant season we have zero birds alive around our club grounds. It is a mix of prairie grass,woods and marsh lands surrounded by private edge rows and farm fields. The reason the pheasants can't survive is predators red tail hawks get most of them, coyotes kill some, we have a pair of red fox that get a few. If by some miracle a few could survive and nest the raccoons would eat up the eggs as fast as they can lay them. The increased numbers of birds of prey,coyotes and the lack of people trapping ****, mink and fox has taken a toll on the pheasants and rabbits. Big **** used to fetch $35 or better now you can't give one away same goes for Fox fur.


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## supercanoe

Predator control is important. Hawks get a free pass, but everything else is fair game during legal seasons. I have seen Predator control alone do miracles for pheasants, quail, and turkeys. Habitat is the most important factor and predator control is second most important factor. Coyote, fox , ****, mink, possum, skunk, and cats all need to be controlled.


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## sd136405

I have seen and harvested wild birds in Ohio. I fall mostly in the habitat camp. Removal of fence rows, riparian corridors, and fallow fields play a large part in the lack of birds. Populations are concentrated in small areas with few avenues to escape or disperse. Some pockets are still good but they are just pockets. Predators are an issue. That cannot be disputed but quality cover can make a difference.


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## sd136405

ostbucks98 said:


> Just curious about the idea of the state closing pheasant season for two years while the state releases wild birds in strategic locations?
> 
> Think it would help?



I would not be in favor of closing it completely. I would be I favor of closing areas of the state, drawings to hunt state lands, a stamp, secret releases, and a season limit/tag system.


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## garhtr

I agree predator contol will help but if given expansive areas With the proper habitat spreading out nest birds are able to over come predation. Unfortunately OHIO is severely lacking of areas that meet pheasant requirements. IMO Habitat habitat habitat.


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## Searay

Habitat is key but the farming practices are so efficient... when you can walk a 300 acre field and can not hide a rabbit in and around it wildlife does not stand a chance... actually you can walk a corn field that size and not find enough food to feed one bird for a day not a stalk standing 4" tall from fence to fence... Actually it's getting like that out west Iowa, SD, ND...


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## longhaulpointer

ostbucks98 said:


> Pheasants are hardier than you give them credit for....ive released them in a clear cut right next to the house about 5 years ago and I see the birds out about almost weekly.


Yep I agree, I once released some in a mall parking lot and I see them now on a regular basis


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## 01521054

It's not predators(they do eat some) farm raised birds don't know how to survive


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## Lundy

Having grown up in Ohio and hunted pheasant and quail with my father back in the 60's and early 70's, when Ohio had a lot of pheasants I can assure you that we have no where even close to the amount of habitat that we had back then. 

There is no doubt that there is still good habitat in this state, there is also no doubt that all of the areas that I grew up hunting are now underneath blacktop and concrete. The land where Eastland mall, East side of Columbus, is now and all along Hamilton road in that area used to be some of the best pheasant lands around when I was a kid. 

I still see the occasional wild bird as I travel around the state but not often


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## JOHNB

Chris_H said:


> I think generally speaking the biggest reason for decline in all upland birds in Ohio is because of the lack of habitat for birds to survive.
> 
> I follow many forums and groups that usually after lengthy discussion end with habitat. I have seen a petition circling for the start of an upland conservation stamp like the wetlands stamp that has much controversy. I would be in favor of anything that results in more birds locally, I'm not looking forward to a ten hour drive in the fall.
> 
> Someone else with more knowledge and experience can likely shed more light on this.


I used to think that until I started hunting South Dakota. That state is barren compared to Ohio. Just in driving out to hunting areas you'll see 25-50 birds along the roadway. I really don't know why we don't have the birds they do, but it sure isn't the cover. Also, there is no lack of hawks & eagles there either.


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## Fishman

These birds aren't native to the continent, much less Ohio, what does it matter?

Seriously not trying to stir the pot, but shouldn't we be thankful for the birds we do have?


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## Shortdrift

I hunted the fields of NW Ohio back in the 50's when it was corn, alfalfa and some wheat. Most of the farms were owned and worked by a family. Fields were bordered by overgrown drainage ditches which were pheasant safe rows as well as rabbit heaven. Harvesting left a good supply of feed on the ground along with standing stalks which were plowed under in the Spring which in turn put nutrients back into the soil. In the early 60's large corporations took over the farming, seed was planted right up to fence rows and the overgrown ditches were eliminated in many areas. Little if any corn and wheat hit the ground with the better harvesters used by the corporations and the stalks were also removed to the ground. The pheasants that once flushed in numbers of 15 to 30 birds were gone in a matter of two to three years .
A biologist told me that a specific element necessary for pheasant health and propagation could only be returned to the soil via decomposition and then ingested by the birds while feeding on seed. Bugs were also basically eliminated. 
Take a good look at the areas that still produce wild birds and see what the cover and harvesting remains are like compared to the very large dedicated corporate farms.
Add to all this the number of feral cats you see while hunting. These cats have wiped out the rabbits that were once prevalent in many of the farms I hunted and they were super deadly on pheasants at night.
Well, that is what I experienced over the years but I have a lot of great memory's that cannot be wiped out by "progress".


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## sd136405

JOHNB said:


> I used to think that until I started hunting South Dakota. That state is barren compared to Ohio. Just in driving out to hunting areas you'll see 25-50 birds along the roadway. I really don't know why we don't have the birds they do, but it sure isn't the cover. Also, there is no lack of hawks & eagles there either.



Haven't been to ND yet. What do you mean by baron? Tilled road to road, stream to stream like here in ohio?


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## supercanoe

I have been hearing roosters cackle all day every 10 minutes for the past couple weeks. If you give them habitat they will thrive.


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## buckeyebowman

Shortdrift said:


> I hunted the fields of NW Ohio back in the 50's when it was corn, alfalfa and some wheat. Most of the farms were owned and worked by a family. Fields were bordered by overgrown drainage ditches which were pheasant safe rows as well as rabbit heaven. Harvesting left a good supply of feed on the ground along with standing stalks which were plowed under in the Spring which in turn put nutrients back into the soil. In the early 60's large corporations took over the farming, seed was planted right up to fence rows and the overgrown ditches were eliminated in many areas. Little if any corn and wheat hit the ground with the better harvesters used by the corporations and the stalks were also removed to the ground. The pheasants that once flushed in numbers of 15 to 30 birds were gone in a matter of two to three years .
> A biologist told me that a specific element necessary for pheasant health and propagation could only be returned to the soil via decomposition and then ingested by the birds while feeding on seed. Bugs were also basically eliminated.
> Take a good look at the areas that still produce wild birds and see what the cover and harvesting remains are like compared to the very large dedicated corporate farms.
> Add to all this the number of feral cats you see while hunting. These cats have wiped out the rabbits that were once prevalent in many of the farms I hunted and they were super deadly on pheasants at night.
> Well, that is what I experienced over the years but I have a lot of great memory's that cannot be wiped out by "progress".


Couldn't have said it better myself, Shortdrift! Look at a harvested crop field these days, there's nothing left! Back in the day, my buddy and I could ride around the country roads, look at a field and say, "There should be pheasant here!" More times than not, there were.

I haven't seen a truly wild pheasant in 30+ years. Those of you who are still seeing them should thank your lucky stars! Nowadays I belong to a game & fish club that puts out "stockers". The outfit we deal with gives us good, strong, healthy birds that are good flyers. But, they're NOT wild birds! Low brass 6's will knock them down, while high brass 5's might not do the job on wild birds. Truly wild birds take some killing!

Still, my first year in the club I was so fascinating by seeing pheasant again I almost forgot about deer archery season!


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## T-180

I was out in the corner of Iowa, MN, & SD last year & while it may look "barren", it is anything but. It may not be 6' tall big blue stem or switchgrass, but that 18" grass cover is good for birds and they have one of the most important factors .......... travel corridors between the patches of cover & food. We have very fragmented, isolated areas of good habitat, but no safe way for the birds, especially young birds, to travel. We have a few wild birds around where we live, but they are on an island & convincing farmers to plant buffer strips or leave fence rows alone is a tough sell with commodity prices up. I finally got one farmer to install strips on the shady & wet sides of a few fields & the birds spread to another small patch of CRP. It's a start.
Join Pheasants Forever as I believe they have a great plan for habitat restoration & have leverage & resources to make things happen.


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## supercanoe

I'm getting a plan together with the FSA and SWCD to put some land in CREP and/or CRP. It will adjoin a larger piece of set aside that has been supporting a pheasant population for many years.


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## longhaulpointer

[QUOTE="T-180, post: 2089194, 
Join Pheasants Forever as I believe they have a great plan for habitat restoration & have leverage & resources to make things happen.[/QUOTE]

Seems to me that pf spend a lot of $ to help private land owners who don't allow hunters access to the land. I quit being a member for that reason. Why should I donate money to PF, for them to spend it on habitat restoration for a private land owner who will never let me hunt there?


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## supercanoe

Their mission, along with most other conservation organizations, is to conserve a resource. It is up to the individual hunter to build relationships and gain permission.


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## T-180

supercanoe said:


> Their mission, along with most other conservation organizations, is to conserve a resource. It is up to the individual hunter to build relationships and gain permission.


Very well said !! I think it's also very important to look at the bigger picture, not just what helps you. If there is an increasing number of birds on farmers property, there is an increase in birds, period. That's where it all starts.


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## Sciotodarby

Predators are one of the biggest issues. ****, skunks, and possums work over pheasant nests pretty hard. And birds of prey aren't too kind to them, either.


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## 419hayden

longhaulpointer said:


> [QUOTE="T-180, post: 2089194,
> Join Pheasants Forever as I believe they have a great plan for habitat restoration & have leverage & resources to make things happen.


Seems to me that pf spend a lot of $ to help private land owners who don't allow hunters access to the land. I quit being a member for that reason. Why should I donate money to PF, for them to spend it on habitat restoration for a private land owner who will never let me hunt there?[/QUOTE]



Join PF buy some land and manage it how you like don't cry cause someone won't give you something for free you cannot get upset when a landowner doesn't give permission. have you ever offered to HELP a landowner or do you expect them to do the work and you reap the rewards. I think the pheasant habitat in Ohio is ok in pockets but the biggest factor is urban development. Drive down any country road and you will find a house. Lack of predator control **** ,coyote ,feral cats are just one factor. WILD birds need WILD places to thrive that is something Ohio doesn't have to offer. I've spent time in South Dakota when the pheasants were in their peak I jumped more coyotes that you could count their farming practices are the same as ours the only difference I see is the amount of people, houses are miles apart not feet


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## 419hayden

Oh ya while we're talking closed seasons what about the ruffed grouse in Ohio that's a native bird why doesn't the DNR develop a plan for them or are they looking at the profit margins $$$$


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## Birdhntr

Sorry guys the ODNR could care less about upland game. They are solely a for profit organization. Deer and Turkeys are the breadwinners in their eyes. It's a shame


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## longhaulpointer

419hayden said:


> Seems to me that pf spend a lot of $ to help private land owners who don't allow hunters access to the land. I quit being a member for that reason. Why should I donate money to PF, for them to spend it on habitat restoration for a private land owner who will never let me hunt there?




Join PF buy some land and manage it how you like don't cry cause someone won't give you something for free you cannot get upset when a landowner doesn't give permission. have you ever offered to HELP a landowner or do you expect them to do the work and you reap the rewards. I think the pheasant habitat in Ohio is ok in pockets but the biggest factor is urban development. Drive down any country road and you will find a house. Lack of predator control **** ,coyote ,feral cats are just one factor. WILD birds need WILD places to thrive that is something Ohio doesn't have to offer. I've spent time in South Dakota when the pheasants were in their peak I jumped more coyotes that you could count their farming practices are the same as ours the only difference I see is the amount of people, houses are miles apart not feet[/QUOTE]
Let me address your issues as listed; buy some land. Well, let me know when some farm land comes available for sale in ohio that isn't bought by a relative, neighbors, or corporation that doesn't cost a million plus.

Not everyone lives in the country. Some people live in the city, people who work hard and pay taxes. Taxes that pay for subsidies, some like those that pay for conservation reservation programs. Crp that pays farmers to not farm unproductive land and get paid to do so. If you really want to be honest, farmers take more government handouts than your local over the Rhine Crack head. So I don't need a lecture about helping a hard working farmer bc that's bs. I work hard and pay taxes, ohio should have walk in like other states. If you don't want tax payer money then you don't have to allow access, simple as that crp would drop 90 percent and the state could concentrate funds to land acquisition.

Also realize that some hunters WORK and drive an hour or 2 each way to get to hunting spots. Try doing this and talking to farmers before u lecture people, most farmers tell me that they lease their land out to hunters. Essentially getting paid for not farming, then getting paid to lease it to wealthy hunters.

I disagree with you on urban sprawl too. Drive through ohio and the fence post are gone and the fields are barren as desert in the winter. Anymore there's more game in the suburbs than anywhere else.
I agree with you on predators and grouse. Grouse #s are higher when fur prices are up. We need more trappers


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## longhaulpointer

Sorry, I just reread tour post again. I'm just curious how much did you help these farmers is sd, or did you just expect to hunt there for free? That type of arrogance is what's wrong with this state. If I took government money I wouldn't bitch if they told me what I had to do. I don't though, I pay taxes and work 6 days a week to provide for my family just so people can act like their the victims. I don't say this lightly, but you and people who think like you are the reason this state is in the shape it's in. Until the state stops catering to the farmers we all screwed


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## 419hayden

I'm not a farmer I live in an urban area I drive hours to find areas to hunt I never said anything about government money I was replying about pheasants forever they have done more for habitat than any other upland org. Yes I did help the farmers in So. Dak along with paying them they see a commodity in their birds not a novelty like we do in Ohio and until then the farmers are going to grow corn not grass crp doesn't pay crap as far as the grouse goes they thrive in areas of logging yet we let our public forests set dormant. These topics turn into battles amongst hunters. That is not what I'm about everyone has an opinion that is what sites like this r for.


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## longhaulpointer

419hayden said:


> I'm not a farmer I live in an urban area I drive hours to find areas to hunt I never said anything about government money I was replying about pheasants forever they have done more for habitat than any other upland org. Yes I did help the farmers in So. Dak along with paying them they see a commodity in their birds not a novelty like we do in Ohio and until then the farmers are going to grow corn not grass crp doesn't pay crap as far as the grouse goes they thrive in areas of logging yet we let our public forests set dormant. These topics turn into battles amongst hunters. That is not what I'm about everyone has an opinion that is what sites like this r for.



I get upset when people act like people who ask a farmer permission to hunt land are just looking for a hand out. I used to live in cinci. I'd drive an hour and a half on my one off day a week and hope that a farmer was home. I bet I've knocked on 85 + doors and have got the same answer every time. I dont have to put up with that anymore. I got my own land and raised about 300 quail this year. Pretty soon mn buffer strip law will come to ohio, I only hope that ohio will go with walkin. Until then all the private payed for by the public land is useless to me and 95 percent of the rest of the hunters in ohio. 
If crp didn't pay crap farmers wouldn't do it. They're greedy not stupid, if they could make more on beans or corn they'd plant the roads and be upset u wanted to drive on them.

As far as our forests, I don't disagree with you at all. The state could care less about grouse


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## Sciotodarby

longhaulpointer said:


> If crp didn't pay crap farmers wouldn't do it. They're greedy not stupid, if they could make more on beans or corn they'd plant the roads and be upset u wanted to drive on them.


You ever think that not all land is owned by farmers? A lot of the time CR P and CREP pays more than what cash renting crop ground to a farmer would make a land owner. Most farmers don't like any set aside program, and some of them don't care for PF and DU. I've got a buddy that farms quite a bit in So Dak and if you show up with a PF or DU hat on or window sticker on your truck, it's a sure way to not get permission to hunt by him and his family.
BTW, do you think your arrogance might be the reason you're denied permission? If you go around thinking your owed by everybody, it must be a miserable life you lead.


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## 419hayden

Longhaul would you be so kind as to allow me the permission to run my pointers on your land ?


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## supercanoe

CRP is the single most beneficial conservation program to ever come out of the farm bill. It has done great things for countless wildlife species. How could any kind of outdoorsmen not appreciate the benefits of this program? Most of the farm bill currently goes to food stamps, not farmers or land owners.


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## longhaulpointer

If they could keep up with mine, what line


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## longhaulpointer

Sciotodarby said:


> BTW, do you think your arrogance might be the reason you're denied permission? If you go around thinking your owed by everybody, it must be a miserable life you lead.


Really miserable. Congratulations on that thought pattern too, very original. I bet you could ponder that whole chicken vs the egg equation and figure it out with that deductive reasoning of yours. I mean which came first for me, getting shut down dozens of times or concluding that short of being a relative I'll never get permission? Idk, some people are little slower than others, but not you. As a matter of fact, I bet your the kind that doesn't even give a good reach around.


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## 419hayden

Elhew and my setter is a decoverly outcross they're close working foot dogs no big runners for me


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## longhaulpointer

supercanoe said:


> CRP is the single most beneficial conservation program to ever come out of the farm bill. It has done great things for countless wildlife species. How could any kind of outdoorsmen not appreciate the benefits of this program? Most of the farm bill currently goes to food stamps, not farmers or land owners.



Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits. I just differ I guess from most people on here. I see a great benefit to a very few. I feel that the resources should be spent where everyone can enjoy them.

In the same way I see a great benefit to those that receive public housing, wic, food stamps, welfare etc. For them it makes their life so much easier. For me it's just part of my taxes going to something that I'd be to proud to take even if I did need it. See it benefits those that receive it and takes my money. So when the state or groups like pf want to collect tax payer money or donated member money to provide for the very few, that's where I get irritated.

I'd be willing to bet that there are a ton of people on here who are against welfare. So to me when you say habitat is good bc it provides more birds even if you can't get to them. That's the same to me as someone saying welfare is good bc some kid somewhere could grow up to cure cancer.....when I think of it, welfare sounds better


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## Sciotodarby

longhaulpointer said:


> Really miserable. Congratulations on that thought pattern too, very original. I bet you could ponder that whole chicken vs the egg equation and figure it out with that deductive reasoning of yours. I mean which came first for me, getting shut down dozens of times or concluding that short of being a relative I'll never get permission? Idk, some people are little slower than others, but not you. As a matter of fact, I bet your the kind that doesn't even give a good reach around.


Lmao. Thanks for the laugh. I've known the feeling of being shut out. I was dozens of times, but I did eventually get married. There's still hope for you to find a farm to chase some birds.


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## longhaulpointer

419hayden said:


> Elhew and my setter is a decoverly outcross they're close working foot dogs no big runners for me


I got an elhew dog now out of tn, close working, relatively speaking. I had a miller hound that was a true horizon dog, passed last year.


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## longhaulpointer

Sciotodarby said:


> Lmao. Thanks for the laugh. I've known the feeling of being shut out. I was dozens of times, but I did eventually get married. There's still hope for you to find a farm to chase some birds.



GLAD to hear that, I happy it's legal now 

No worries on that farm, I have access to several thousand acres within a 2 minute drive from house and all the birds I could ever shoot. Life is good.


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## ostbucks98

longhaulpointer said:


> GLAD to hear that, I happy it's legal now
> 
> No worries on that farm, I have access to several thousand acres within a 2 minute drive from house and all the birds I could ever shoot. Life is good.


Then you supply your own birds or you dont live in ohio. I am fortunate enough to have access to a couple thousand acres of some of the most prime wild bird fields in ohio. Its very far from shooting all the birds i want. I hunt with four really good dogs as well.


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## Shortdrift

JOHNB said:


> I used to think that until I started hunting South Dakota. That state is barren compared to Ohio. Just in driving out to hunting areas you'll see 25-50 birds along the roadway. I really don't know why we don't have the birds they do, but it sure isn't the cover. Also, there is no lack of hawks & eagles there either.


Just what type of cover are you hunting if there isn't that much to provide food and shelter for the birds? Seems like a conflicting circumstance.


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## supercanoe

The Dakotas are far from barren. North and South Dakota have several million acres CRP.


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## longhaulpointer

Shortdrift said:


> Just what type of cover are you hunting if there isn't that much to provide food and shelter for the birds? Seems like a conflicting circumstance.


The rest of us just disregarded those comments about about south Dakota being a barren wasteland like ohio.


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## Sciotodarby

I saw a grand total of 3 pheasants all fall going across a few thousand acres. All 3 of those were jumped while mowing along ditches after the crops came off. Plenty of suitable cover available to sustain many birds. On the other hand, I saw more rabbits this year than I have the last 3 or 4 years combined.


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## longhaulpointer

Sciotodarby said:


> I saw a grand total of 3 pheasants all fall going across a few thousand acres. All 3 of those were jumped while mowing along ditches after the crops came off. Plenty of suitable cover available to sustain many birds. On the other hand, I saw more rabbits this year than I have the last 3 or 4
> 
> 
> I'm just curious what you and others consider suitable cover?
> 
> I live in the southwestern part of the state, near ceasers creek for reference, and drive to Columbus quite often. In theses parts, after the corn and beans are down it looks like a barren desert with patches of small wood lots that the farmers haven't got around to cutting down. Around here, they every available inch.


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## longhaulpointer

Sorry messed that up, I meant to ask u what you consider suitable habitat bc I think it must vary from person to person. Where I live, sw ohio specifically near ceasers creek, and on my frequent drives to Columbus I see farm fields that when harvested are barren wastelands. Drive up 71n in the winter and u can see the farmers tearing down tree lots and burning them to get more land for the next season. It really looks like you're driving through a desert. It looks like field mice would have a hard time finding suitable habitat. Maybe in other parts of the state it's different, idk


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## Sciotodarby

longhaulpointer said:


> Sorry messed that up, I meant to ask u what you consider suitable habitat bc I think it must vary from person to person. Where I live, sw ohio specifically near ceasers creek, and on my frequent drives to Columbus I see farm fields that when harvested are barren wastelands. Drive up 71n in the winter and u can see the farmers tearing down tree lots and burning them to get more land for the next season. It really looks like you're driving through a desert. It looks like field mice would have a hard time finding suitable habitat. Maybe in other parts of the state it's different, idk


Grassy ditch banks with some brush, some grown up fence rows and CREP ground. I've torn out a bunch of fence rows, old feed lots and farmsteads. It's stuff that needs done, but there's still good habitat for the birds. They just aren't here.


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## buckeyebowman

Sciotodarby said:


> I saw a grand total of 3 pheasants all fall going across a few thousand acres. All 3 of those were jumped while mowing along ditches after the crops came off. Plenty of suitable cover available to sustain many birds. On the other hand, I saw more rabbits this year than I have the last 3 or 4 years combined.





longhaulpointer said:


> Sorry messed that up, I meant to ask u what you consider suitable habitat bc I think it must vary from person to person. Where I live, sw ohio specifically near ceasers creek, and on my frequent drives to Columbus I see farm fields that when harvested are barren wastelands. Drive up 71n in the winter and u can see the farmers tearing down tree lots and burning them to get more land for the next season. It really looks like you're driving through a desert. It looks like field mice would have a hard time finding suitable habitat. Maybe in other parts of the state it's different, idk


Oh, good grief! Suitable habitat is ditch lines! And wind breaks! And fallow areas! I sometimes have a hard time believing some of this stuff. Game is where you find it! Pay attention to that! I read an article, nearly 40 years ago, where the author opined that that pheasant do best where about 80% of the land area is cultivated. OK, fine! But what about the other 20%? Is it left wild or is it manicured to look like a suburban lawn? If the former, you will have birds. If not, you will not!


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## Birdhntr

Sciotodarby said:


> I saw a grand total of 3 pheasants all fall going across a few thousand acres. All 3 of those were jumped while mowing along ditches after the crops came off. Plenty of suitable cover available to sustain many birds. On the other hand, I saw more rabbits this year than I have the last 3 or 4 years combined.




Obviously there is not enough suitable cover to sustain birds. Please tell me you are joking! Also I would love to see where these "thousands of acres" of habitat are located? Give me a break. I know you farm and you will always defend anything that comes close to criticizing your work. I get that. But you cannot honestly say that there is enough suitable upland game habitat.


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## Sciotodarby

Birdhntr said:


> Obviously there is not enough suitable cover to sustain birds. Please tell me you are joking! Also I would love to see where these "thousands of acres" of habitat are located? Give me a break. I know you farm and you will always defend anything that comes close to criticizing your work. I get that. But you cannot honestly say that there is enough suitable upland game habitat.


There's enough habitat for more than 3 freaking birds. It used to be quite common to jump them out of the fields as we were harvesting. Not any more. The last couple winters have been hard on them, plus the predators.


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## T-180

We used to jump them out of the fields until the herbicides used made it so there are no weeds left in the fields. Barren corn fodder will only hold feeding birds, they need actual cover to survive & it needs to be connected. Fence lines & grassy/brushy ditches used to provide those connectors, but they're pretty much gone. That's where the buffer strips along field edges, connecting scattered patched of CRP or fallow fields really comes into play.


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## longhaulpointer

T-180 said:


> We used to jump them out of the fields until the herbicides used made it so there are no weeds left in the fields. Barren corn fodder will only hold feeding birds, they need actual cover to survive & it needs to be connected. Fence lines & grassy/brushy ditches used to provide those connectors, but they're pretty much gone. That's where the buffer strips along field edges, connecting scattered patched of CRP or fallow fields really comes into play.


Well said


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## buckeyebowman

I once read that the ODNR cares more about turkeys than it does about pheasant or grouse because they can sell tags for turkeys, but not for the other birds.

So, as far as the original point of this thread goes, I don't think closing pheasant season would do a damn thing. Too many other things need straightened out.


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## Sciotodarby

IDK about all that. The state seems to do a lot for pheasants with its many wildlife areas. They try to manage timber cuttings for grouse. But, turkeys bring people and their money from out of state.


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## buckeyebowman

Sciotodarby said:


> IDK about all that. The state seems to do a lot for pheasants with its many wildlife areas. They try to manage timber cuttings for grouse. But, turkeys bring people and their money from out of state.


Admittedly I don't hunt state property as much as I used to, but as far as pheasants go, it's no more than what my hunting club does, put out stockers! Ohio used to have a wild pheasant recovery program, which I took part in many years ago. I had permission to hunt two adjoining farms. When I found out about the program from the local GP, I got the paperwork and got permission from the landowners to engage in the program. I submitted the paperwork and the GP called me to tell me the "pheasant guy" from Columbus was coming up to evaluate the properties on a certain day. 

Long story short, I thought these properties would be dynamite for pheasant, and the "pheasant guy" thought the same thing! I got a call from the DP the evening they did the inspection. He told me that I blew the pheasant guy's mind, and he would see to it that I got the maximum number of birds per acre. They took, and we had terrific pheasant hunting there for many years. As far as I know that program no longer exists.


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## Sciotodarby

Jumped 3 off this ditch so far. 2 hens and a roostet


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## Birdhntr

Sciotodarby said:


> Jumped 3 off this ditch so far. 2 hens and a roostet



Nice to see you mowing it down


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## Sciotodarby

Birdhntr said:


> Nice to see you mowing it down


They're getting a nice strip left down each side of the top of the ditch, plus the whole ditch itself


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## Sciotodarby

Haven't mowed it all year so as not to disturb any nesting birds and young ones. Mowing it now to be able to spray the poison hemlock and marest ail rosettes with 2,4-d to keep them from growing next year and looking like crap plus smothering out the other beneficial vegetation.


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## buckeyebowman

Sciotodarby said:


> Haven't mowed it all year so as not to disturb any nesting birds and young ones. Mowing it now to be able to spray the poison hemlock and marest ail rosettes with 2,4-d to keep them from growing next year and looking like crap plus smothering out the other beneficial vegetation.


OK. All that's fine. But, how about back in the day when the farmers didn't mow or spray crap, and we had pheasants galore! Have the pheasant changed? Or have the land use patterns changed?


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## Sciotodarby

buckeyebowman said:


> OK. All that's fine. But, how about back in the day when the farmers didn't mow or spray crap, and we had pheasants galore! Have the pheasant changed? Or have the land use patterns changed?


Without a doubt farming patterns and methods have changed. Herbicides have been around for a long time, but we've got more choices today. Modern farming practices are keeping soil in place better than the old days of the moldboard plow and row crop cultivator. There were more farms back then and they were diversified with crops, hay, and livestock which made ideal small game habitat. Not so much anymore, but I do what I can for wildlife up to a certain point.


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## Ant

Its definitely land use changes that have caused Pheasant numbers to plumit.But one thing no one has hit on is the lack of gravel roads.Back when they were every where.They had alot of rocks for theyre gizzards.


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## Sciotodarby

I've had time tonight and I've went back and read the whole thread. Other than one post, everybody agrees that farmers are to blame for loss of habitat. Lundy's post about development taking habitat kind of got disregarded and nobody else mentioned it. Ever think how many thousands and thousands of acres of good habitat has been covered up by sub divisions, car dealerships, golf courses, strip malls, Wal Mart's, Tim Hortons, Gander Mountains, etc? Hell, right now there's a couple hundred acres of prime fence rows and CREP ground getting developed on 104 south of Grove City that's right across the road from Southeast Conservation Club's sign. Let a farmer take a trackhoe to a fence row or ditch and people lose their minds, but hey, it's ok if a Starbucks pops up when development levels a whole farm.


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## Birdhntr

Sciotodarby said:


> I've had time tonight and I've went back and read the whole thread. Other than one post, everybody agrees that farmers are to blame for loss of habitat. Lundy's post about development taking habitat kind of got disregarded and nobody else mentioned it. Ever think how many thousands and thousands of acres of good habitat has been covered up by sub divisions, car dealerships, golf courses, strip malls, Wal Mart's, Tim Hortons, Gander Mountains, etc? Hell, right now there's a couple hundred acres of prime fence rows and CREP ground getting developed on 104 south of Grove City that's right across the road from Southeast Conservation Club's sign. Let a farmer take a trackhoe to a fence row or ditch and people lose their minds, but hey, it's ok if a Starbucks pops up when development levels a whole farm.



That's a new metro park being developed on 104


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## Sciotodarby

I wasn't sure what was getting put in there. I know they're moving a lot of dirt.


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## buckeyebowman

No doubt development has taken some land out of production. But I can show you weed fields today that were weed fields 30 years ago. The only difference between then and now is that then, you could find pheasant in them!


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## Sciotodarby

buckeyebowman said:


> No doubt development has taken some land out of production. But I can show you weed fields today that were weed fields 30 years ago. The only difference between then and now is that then, you could find pheasant in them!


So why no birds now?


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## buckeyebowman

Sciotodarby said:


> So why no birds now?


I'm thinking increased predation!


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## Sciotodarby

That's what I think it is around here, along with the past 2 hard winters.


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## ostbucks98

Those hard winters in the Dakota's wiped them out as well.


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## Sciotodarby

The winters definitely hurt then out there.


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## T-180

I was out in NW Iowa last year from 11-15 ~11-20 ; temp was -12 with a wind chill off -35 & birds were everywhere. Warmed up toward the end of the week to about a balmy 15 degrees & same thing, birds everywhere. The people out there said it's like that every year, just a little early last year. If the birds have sufficient winter cover & food, a majority will survive to breed the next year. We need a mix of cover types, not just the standard CRP mix which doesn't provide much food for winter. As far as winter cover. cattails are one of the biggest things that the prairie pothole region has that aids in the winter survival rates. Those things break the wind and provide amazing cover that will stand up to heavy snow. We literally kicked up hundreds of birds out of them in one week, not to mention rabbits, deer, etc.. 
When was the last time you saw a wetland adjacent to CRP or other forms of food/cover around here ??!! Or a wetland in general that wasn't managed by the ODNR ??


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## Sciotodarby

T-180 said:


> I was out in NW Iowa last year from 11-15 ~11-20 ; temp was -12 with a wind chill off -35 & birds were everywhere. Warmed up toward the end of the week to about a balmy 15 degrees & same thing, birds everywhere. The people out there said it's like that every year, just a little early last year. If the birds have sufficient winter cover & food, a majority will survive to breed the next year. We need a mix of cover types, not just the standard CRP mix which doesn't provide much food for winter. As far as winter cover. cattails are one of the biggest things that the prairie pothole region has that aids in the winter survival rates. Those things break the wind and provide amazing cover that will stand up to heavy snow. We literally kicked up hundreds of birds out of them in one week, not to mention rabbits, deer, etc..
> When was the last time you saw a wetland adjacent to CRP or other forms of food/cover around here ??!! Or a wetland in general that wasn't managed by the ODNR ??


Got a wetland in 50ac of CREP on a farm we farm. You'd be hard pressed to find a bird in any of it.


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## supercanoe

T-180 said:


> I was out in NW Iowa last year from 11-15 ~11-20 ; temp was -12 with a wind chill off -35 & birds were everywhere. Warmed up toward the end of the week to about a balmy 15 degrees & same thing, birds everywhere. The people out there said it's like that every year, just a little early last year. If the birds have sufficient winter cover & food, a majority will survive to breed the next year. We need a mix of cover types, not just the standard CRP mix which doesn't provide much food for winter. As far as winter cover. cattails are one of the biggest things that the prairie pothole region has that aids in the winter survival rates. Those things break the wind and provide amazing cover that will stand up to heavy snow. We literally kicked up hundreds of birds out of them in one week, not to mention rabbits, deer, etc..
> When was the last time you saw a wetland adjacent to CRP or other forms of food/cover around here ??!! Or a wetland in general that wasn't managed by the ODNR ??


I am fortunate to have that exact scenario around home, and it produces birds. I also hunt a farm in Pickaway County that has CRP/cat tails and it also produces birds. Neither of these properties allow pheasant hunting, which probably helps.


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## T-180

Scioto, is there any nesting habitat like fallow fields and any travel corridors ?? Also, when you say wetlands, are there large amounts of cattails or just narrow strips?? If you don't have birds, you need a little management of the land & maybe an initial stocking. You can get that help quite easily, if interested.


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## Sciotodarby

T-180 said:


> Scioto, is there any nesting habitat like fallow fields and any travel corridors ?? Also, when you say wetlands, are there large amounts of cattails or just narrow strips?? If you don't have birds, you need a little management of the land & maybe an initial stocking. You can get that help quite easily, if interested.


At least an acre of cat tails, probably a little more. Travel corridors are there in the form of fence rows. I've went my whole life with a lack of birds and would rather just rabbit hunt. Lol


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## Birdhntr

I grew up in the same area as you Sciotodarby. There used to be a lot of birds around. However there just isn't anymore cover around. Where there is cover there are birds. There just isn't enough left standing for a strong population to survive. Predators are around but birds have no place to hide. Stop blaming the predators and the cold winters. People still blame the storm in the 70s for wiping them out. Other states have had several severe winters as well, but they continue to have a decent population. Why? Because of sufficient cover to allow for birds to repopulate. 

A good study is Iowa. Used to be a Mecca for pheasants. Then corn went sky high and Cover got plowed under. Pheasant population crashed. Not because of predators or whether but because of lack of sufficient habitat. Now that corn has stabilized and dropped in price more ground is going back into CRP and habitat. Hence the return or upswing of pheasant numbers in that state. 

Habitat = everything for upland game. 50 acres with 1 cattail slough is not going to bring back or show any significant jump in a population. It is great that you have it. And I appreciate your attempts at setting aside land. But it will take more from others doing the same to have any significant impact.


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## Sciotodarby

PF has done some "management" on that farm. Birds should be there and they're not. What killed off the quail? Hard winters in the 70's were the beginning of the end for them according to everybody I've talked to. The past 2 winters have been as hard as any that I can remember, plus more predators than just about forever.


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## Birdhntr

Sciotodarby said:


> PF has done some "management" on that farm. Birds should be there and they're not. What killed off the quail? Hard winters in the 70's were the beginning of the end for them according to everybody I've talked to. The past 2 winters have been as hard as any that I can remember, plus more predators than just about forever.





HABITAT!


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## Sciotodarby

I'm not hating on the guys who have hope of a come back of the pheasants. I don't see it happening. Another thing to think about is the ground in CREP. A lot of it will be expiring in about 5 years. If cash rent will pay more than the CREP payment would be, expect to be seeing a lot of it pulled out of the program and back into production.


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## Birdhntr

Sciotodarby said:


> I'm not hating on the guys who have hope of a come back of the pheasants. I don't see it happening. Another thing to think about is the ground in CREP. A lot of it will be expiring in about 5 years. If cash rent will pay more than the CREP payment would be, expect to be seeing a lot of it pulled out of the program and back into production.



Thanks I appreciate that. I just don't think you fully understand WHY there will never be a come back in Ohio.


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## Sciotodarby

I understand that a lot of factors have changed since the hay day of the birds. And I know that it'll never be the same again.


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## supercanoe

Will cash rent rates ever surpass crep payments? Crep is 200 percent of the soil rental rate. Unless you sign up and then grain goes absolutely sky high I don't see how cash rent rates would surpass crep rates.


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## Sciotodarby

There's cash rents of over $400 an acre on marginal ground. I'm not sure what rental rate the govt will use when it's time to resign ground, my guess is that it'll be under $200( which is the high end of average cash rent). Some guys will pay big big money to be able to farm for no return and that's where the $350-400 rent comes into play. Land owners that are all about the dollar will go with whoever pays the most, be it CREP or a farmer. All the incentive payments that were offered when ground was enrolled were only one time deals, so they shouldn't be offered again. I wouldn't think they would be anyway, but it's a possibility. Depends on how bad the broke govt wants to spend a bu ch of money.


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## supercanoe

Sciotodarby said:


> There's cash rents of over $400 an acre on marginal ground. I'm not sure what rental rate the govt will use when it's time to resign ground, my guess is that it'll be under $200( which is the high end of average cash rent). Some guys will pay big big money to be able to farm for no return and that's where the $350-400 rent comes into play. Land owners that are all about the dollar will go with whoever pays the most, be it CREP or a farmer. All the incentive payments that were offered when ground was enrolled were only one time deals, so they shouldn't be offered again. I wouldn't think they would be anyway, but it's a possibility. Depends on how bad the broke govt wants to spend a bu ch of money.


$400 an acre? I've never heard of anyone paying that much. I need someone to rent my field for that much. CREP in my county is $300 range right now.


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## Sciotodarby

supercanoe said:


> $400 an acre? I've never heard of anyone paying that much. I need someone to rent my field for that much. CREP in my county is $300 range right now.


So you'd take $400 an acre for cash rent over $300 for CREP ? Lol.
There's some big money rents being thrown around. Highest I know of here in Pickaway is $428 and $440 in Fayette. Average rent is $175-200 here so the govt is going to have to pony up big bucks to keep CREP rolling. I know a bunch of landowners that kicked themselves in the rear for enrolling in the program and then grain prices went up and cash rent followed. They lost a bunch of money and won't do it again.


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## c. j. stone

Didn't read all of this so if I repeat something already, addressed, humor me(Old Man)! The Pheasants Forever people constantly say(and work to try to make it happen) that if you have habitat, you WILL have pheasants! Where do they come from?? Do they drop out of the sky? The State has no interest in bringing the wild pheasants back!-ever wonder what they do with the "female chicks" they hatch? And they only raise males for release on "Public Hunting Lands"! To answer the OPs original question abt the viability of closing the season for two years, it would take easily a decade or more(IMO) to get even meager populations started(and this with more help from the ODNR than they are willing, or financially able, to supply. The State sponsored "snowshoe hare" reintroduction started in Grand River over ten years ago(we are talking Rabbits here)! I have not read or seen anything that indicates this is succeeding!? I really think a pheasant reintroduction is not within their capabilities!


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## supercanoe

No, I would not $400 cash rent over $300 crep. I was just half joking about that. $400 does sound good though. I can't put a monetary value on the benefits that I get from the enjoyment of wildlife. That is what I do. I just have never heard of $400 cash rent since the grain boom when guys signed extended leases based on the boom price and then struggled big time when prices dropped and they were locked in at those prices. What is ground selling for in those areas?


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## Sciotodarby

supercanoe said:


> What is ground selling for in those areas?


$6500-8500 or so.


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## buckeyebowman

Sciotodarby said:


> PF has done some "management" on that farm. Birds should be there and they're not. What killed off the quail? Hard winters in the 70's were the beginning of the end for them according to everybody I've talked to. The past 2 winters have been as hard as any that I can remember, plus more predators than just about forever.


Don't know where in the state you're located, but with "Scioto" in your name, I'm guessing central. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the Winters of '77 and '78 are what killed off the quail up here in NE OH! We used to have lots of quail up here, and my buddy and I knew where they were. In the '78 hunting season there weren't as many, and by the hunting season of '79 they were gone! And there were no drastic habitat changes. Hip deep snow and 20 below will do that to a small bird.

But, I don't think that's the story with pheasant.



c. j. stone said:


> Didn't read all of this so if I repeat something already, addressed, humor me(Old Man)! The Pheasants Forever people constantly say(and work to try to make it happen) that if you have habitat, you WILL have pheasants! Where do they come from?? Do they drop out of the sky? The State has no interest in bringing the wild pheasants back!-ever wonder what they do with the "female chicks" they hatch? And they only raise males for release on "Public Hunting Lands"! To answer the OPs original question abt the viability of closing the season for two years, it would take easily a decade or more(IMO) to get even meager populations started(and this with more help from the ODNR than they are willing, or financially able, to supply. The State sponsored "snowshoe hare" reintroduction started in Grand River over ten years ago(we are talking Rabbits here)! I have not read or seen anything that indicates this is succeeding!? I really think a pheasant reintroduction is not within their capabilities!


As I posted earlier, the state used to have something like the "Wild Pheasant Recovery Program" like PA does now. This was way back in the day. But they can't sell tags to harvest pheasant, so they take a back seat to turkey! Throw out some stockers on state game lands, and everybody's happy, right?


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## JOHNB

Shortdrift said:


> Just what type of cover are you hunting if there isn't that much to provide food and shelter for the birds? Seems like a conflicting circumstance.


I'm not saying there isn't cover out there. But if we could add up all their state lands with cover & compare it to all of our fence rows, tree lines, woodlots, brushy fields, etc. I think we'd find that we have much more habitat area than they have.
I'm hunting the state lands (GPA, WPA, WIA, etc.) In the area I hunt, I'll drive for 10-30 miles between state areas that have cover. Everything between those covers is barren. Even the few homes that are out there have no cover by them.


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## M R DUCKS

The Dakotas have birds! Are some of you implying that our winters are worse/harder than the Dakotas??? I think not! It's Habitat!


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## supercanoe

JOHNB said:


> I'm not saying there isn't cover out there. But if we could add up all their state lands with cover & compare it to all of our fence rows, tree lines, woodlots, brushy fields, etc. I think we'd find that we have much more habitat area than they have.
> I'm hunting the state lands (GPA, WPA, WIA, etc.) In the area I hunt, I'll drive for 10-30 miles between state areas that have cover. Everything between those covers is barren. Even the few homes that are out there have no cover by them.


How about the million plus acres of private land in CRP? You never noticed any of that?


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## JOHNB

supercanoe said:


> How about the million plus acres of private land in CRP? You never noticed any of that?


Are you referring to the 1.25 million acres in Walk-In Areas? Just because it's access land doesn't mean that it's good for birds. I haven't seen much of that will hold or provide habitat for birds. It's mostly pasture land, short & grazed over, and only good for prairie dogs, gopher, deer, & pronghorn hunters.


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## T-180

JOHNB said:


> Are you referring to the 1.25 million acres in Walk-In Areas? Just because it's access land doesn't mean that it's good for birds. I haven't seen much of that will hold or provide habitat for birds. It's mostly pasture land, short & grazed over, and only good for prairie dogs, gopher, deer, & pronghorn hunters.


There is far more habitat in SD, ND, MN, & IA than just the walk in areas. Some of it may be far back off the roads, not on the public maps, or may not look like good habitat to you, but it's there, along with hundred thousands of birds. SD is #1 for pheasant hunting in the country ; how can that be without suitable habitat & a solid management plan ??!! 
There have been millions of acres of CRP lost nationwide due to the increased commodity prices and that's a huge issue, but there is still way more available cover in SD, ND, IA, MN, etc. than we have in Ohio. Oh, there winters may ours look balmy, too.


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## JOHNB

T-180 said:


> There is far more habitat in SD, ND, MN, & IA than just the walk in areas. Some of it may be far back off the roads, not on the public maps, or may not look like good habitat to you, but it's there, along with hundred thousands of birds. SD is #1 for pheasant hunting in the country ; how can that be without suitable habitat & a solid management plan ??!!
> There have been millions of acres of CRP lost nationwide due to the increased commodity prices and that's a huge issue, but there is still way more available cover in SD, ND, IA, MN, etc. than we have in Ohio. Oh, there winters may ours look balmy, too.


Not saying there isn't more habitat than in Walk-in areas, but I believe that's what supercanoe was referring to with the "over million acres in CRP" reference.
And I'm not saying that it doesn't have habitat & thousands of birds, I'm saying Ohio has plenty of habitat. It may not be in a large blocks, but there are plenty of hedgerows, fence lines, brushy areas, etc., that all could produce birds. I drive down the highway & that's all I see! Before the blizzards of the 70's I had no trouble finding wild birds in Northern Ohio. I haven't seen one since! I have a friend that planted a 70 acre CRP field 10 years ago in LaGrange. I've run dogs there for 10 years & never saw a wild bird there. The state did nothing in 40 years to reintroduce wild birds back into the area, & that's what we have, nothing. That's why I travel bird hunt in Michigan & S.D. every year, all public lands with plenty of birds.
The first year I hunted S.D. our dogs caught 3 hens & 1 rooster as they tried to flush out of a cattail slough. I wish I could have threw them in a bird box & taken them home for release, but they probably wouldn't have made it, (plus it was illegal). If we can catch them, why can't the state???? There has to be a way to bring them back in & close the season for a few years.


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## Birdhntr

JOHNB said:


> Not saying there isn't more habitat than in Walk-in areas, but I believe that's what supercanoe was referring to with the "over million acres in CRP" reference.
> And I'm not saying that it doesn't have habitat & thousands of birds, I'm saying Ohio has plenty of habitat. It may not be in a large blocks, but there are plenty of hedgerows, fence lines, brushy areas, etc., that all could produce birds. I drive down the highway & that's all I see! Before the blizzards of the 70's I had no trouble finding wild birds in Northern Ohio. I haven't seen one since! I have a friend that planted a 70 acre CRP field 10 years ago in LaGrange. I've run dogs there for 10 years & never saw a wild bird there. The state did nothing in 40 years to reintroduce wild birds back into the area, & that's what we have, nothing. That's why I travel bird hunt in Michigan & S.D. every year, all public lands with plenty of birds.
> The first year I hunted S.D. our dogs caught 3 hens & 1 rooster as they tried to flush out of a cattail slough. I wish I could have threw them in a bird box & taken them home for release, but they probably wouldn't have made it, (plus it was illegal). If we can catch them, why can't the state???? There has to be a way to bring them back in & close the season for a few years.



There is FAR more upland habitat in the Dakotas than Ohio. This should not even be up for debate.


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## Sciotodarby

I would hope there is more habitat in South Dakota than Ohio. It's got less than one tenth of the population of Ohio and it's over half again bigger than this state.


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## supercanoe

JOHNB said:


> Not saying there isn't more habitat than in Walk-in areas, but I believe that's what supercanoe was referring to with the "over million acres in CRP" reference.
> And I'm not saying that it doesn't have habitat & thousands of birds, I'm saying Ohio has plenty of habitat. It may not be in a large blocks, but there are plenty of hedgerows, fence lines, brushy areas, etc., that all could produce birds. I drive down the highway & that's all I see! Before the blizzards of the 70's I had no trouble finding wild birds in Northern Ohio. I haven't seen one since! I have a friend that planted a 70 acre CRP field 10 years ago in LaGrange. I've run dogs there for 10 years & never saw a wild bird there. The state did nothing in 40 years to reintroduce wild birds back into the area, & that's what we have, nothing. That's why I travel bird hunt in Michigan & S.D. every year, all public lands with plenty of birds.
> The first year I hunted S.D. our dogs caught 3 hens & 1 rooster as they tried to flush out of a cattail slough. I wish I could have threw them in a bird box & taken them home for release, but they probably wouldn't have made it, (plus it was illegal). If we can catch them, why can't the state???? There has to be a way to bring them back in & close the season for a few years.


Fence lines and hedgerows do not provide suitable nesting cover. There is a ton of research out there that documents the fact large and continuous tracts of cover are crucial to the nesting success of upland birds and waterfowl. Fragmented habitat may provide some use during certain times of the year, but it will not sustain a permanent population.


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## T-180

Supercanoe hit it on the head ; fencerows & ditches are mainly travel corridors for pheasants & will never hold many birds. Larger areas, connected by those features will hold lots of birds. Fencelines are great for small birds like quail, if we had any.


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## Sciotodarby

What I was getting at is that the birds out there are more acclimated to harsh winter weather. When they've got an abnormally hard winter, the birds suffer just like they suffer here with a hard winter.


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## jray

ostbucks98 said:


> Those hard winters in the Dakota's wiped them out as well.


Apples and oranges bud


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## fishintechnician

Someone mentioned an upland stamp, I think that's a great idea, as long as the money goes for habitat and management. Once the cover and lands are established the state should introduce birds for x number of years and not allow hunting during that time to establish populations. The wetlands stamp has done wonders for the marshes in the state. The state has added land on public and private grounds. I also agree we all need to do our part in predator control. Coyotes and red tails are especially bad ( I do t condone killing Hawks). 

I have a passion for upland hunting as well as rabbit hunting, I can tell you that the rabbit population is also on the decline and habitat is disappearing rapidly. Not as bad as pheasant but still alarmingly fast. It's sad bc this is what I grew up with and truly got me hooked on hunting. Holds a very special place in my heart.


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## buckeyebowman

T-180 said:


> There is far more habitat in SD, ND, MN, & IA than just the walk in areas. Some of it may be far back off the roads, not on the public maps, or may not look like good habitat to you, but it's there, along with hundred thousands of birds. SD is #1 for pheasant hunting in the country ; how can that be without suitable habitat & a solid management plan ??!!
> There have been millions of acres of CRP lost nationwide due to the increased commodity prices and that's a huge issue, but there is still way more available cover in SD, ND, IA, MN, etc. than we have in Ohio. Oh, there winters may ours look balmy, too.


This reminded me of something. I and my buddy used to find, and flush, pheasant in places far from any farms or crop fields! But there was something there that enabled the birds to thrive.


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## c. j. stone

Ohio has thousands of acres of swamp and marsh lands which pheasants love! The only wild pheasants I have seen(or heard) in the last thirty years were living in these un-farmable, low lying areas full of reeds/cattail/brush patches(natural winter and predator protection) that are practically impenetrable. The State could/should focus on some stocking of these numerous areas where they already have(in some cases) erected wood duck houses. Pheasants would not compete with the ducks, usually some agriculture nearby for food sources, etc, etc. Funding this seems to be the determining factor. Pheasant stamps??


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