# Antlered or Antlerless???



## ABE (Feb 9, 2005)

A friend of mine shot a buck today and when we got to it we found it had already shed one horn and the other flew off when it ran away. He checked it in as a antlerless deer since it did not have any horns on it. The check station made him tag it as antlered. How can this be right? A button buck or a buck with less than 5" of horns is considered an antlerless deer. Its a shame either way because it would have been a really nice buck.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

The antlerless tags are only good on urban zones or state controlled hunts after the end of the first week of gun season. They may have made him use an either sex tag and marked it antlerless??? If it had no antlers at the time of the kill (lost its last one while running implies it was still alive) then he should have been okay marking his either sex tag as antlerless. Or using an antlerless tag if shot in an urban zone.


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## dmgonfishin55 (Jan 8, 2009)

It should have been tagged in as a shed buck, there at least used to be that option. This I believe this does not count as your antlered deer and I think the shed buck option is after you mark it antlerless and there are 3 other choices button buck, spike with less than 3", or doe. It could have changed and I may be wrong, hopefully someone can give some positive info.


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## Carpn (Apr 5, 2004)

Did he pick up the horn it shed after he shot it? At the time he shot it he had to know it was a antlered buck. Why not tag it as such?


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## ABE (Feb 9, 2005)

I know there is an ethical delima here but i thought the rules were pretty cut and dry. Horns over x inches = buck and anything else is a doe. Just doesn't make sense to me. What if he had already killed a buck and then this deer dropped his horn 100 yds sooner. He still would have shot thinking it was a doe and then would be faced with checking in two bucks in one year. Me personally i am dissapointed because i know this deer would have been a stud next year but for him it would have been his first buck and a nice one. Imagine his dissapointment when we found one horn on the blood trail only to find the other was already gone.


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## Carpn (Apr 5, 2004)

Well,,,,maybe he can find the other side? Taxidermists can reattach them usually no problem.


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

Huntingbull is correct on the time frame for the tags. So the either sex tag would have had to been used. The Antlerless Deer Permit are not valid in Zone A & B after November 28, 2010. The Antlerless Deer Permit are not valid in Zone C after December 5, 2010. 

ABE, it's been 4 years since I worked a check station and I cannot remember if there was an option for shed buck or not. The rack was off at the time. So it could have been considered antlerless. It's the same as shooting a turkey with a beard. The law states it has to be a "bearded" turkey. It does not say "male". 

Also ABE, if the antlers are 3" or less it would be considered antlerless, not the 5" as you mentioned earlier.


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## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

it's a shame the deer lost it horns already but,as you stated your friend knew it was a buck when he shot it and the antler feel off when it went down.as stated before ,it's ethics.he should be happy that he was able to tag a deer and buy another tag and go back out or enjoy the one he took and have a good story to go with it.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

good point Big Red. Ethically, at the shot it was a buck. Technically at the check in (and according to the story [which I believe], before death), it was antlerless. Tough call.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

This one is easy...It presented itself as a buck and shoulda been tagged as such.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

following the law is necessary. Ethics unfortunately, in some hunters minds, are optional. My ethics would have me tagging it as a buck. The technical answer could be much more complicated. Is the definition of time of kill at the shot or upon the animals expiration? Ethics leads me to tag it as it was at the shot. have heard DOW officers talk about people breaking the antlers off deer to tag antlerless. Those aren't hunters, they are poaching slobs.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

we had this discussion a few months back and i was proven wrong. i think we were talking about an antlered doe at that time. i thought male or female, buck or doe.. nope regs dont read like that. if its antlers fell off. its it concidered anterless. i emailed the ODNR and that was the reply i got back. that deer should of checked as anterless.


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## crappiehunter18 (Apr 25, 2010)

I work at a check station, and yes theres an option for shed buck I don't know if you tried to use an antlerless permit or not, but theres options for buck, button buck, shed buck, and doe. You have to use an either sex tag unless you shot it an urban zone.


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## crappiehunter18 (Apr 25, 2010)

and the shed buck does not go toward your one buck a year.


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## ABE (Feb 9, 2005)

He used the either sex tag and checked it in as a doe or antlerless. They made him check it as a buck or antlered. Either way the deer is dead and its a done deal. I was just confused by the ruling the check station made. I would have felt guilty checking it as a doe if it had been me.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I&#8217;m guessing he had the antler there with the deer and told the person what happened. Technically, maybe they could have gotten away with checking it in as a shed/anterless buck. But, the person checking the deer did the right thing. He knew it was a buck when he shot it.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

When he shot the buck he KNEW it had a antler or actually thought antlers(s), he found one antler on the blood trail, I'm guessing as others have that he kept the antler, to me it must be tagged as a antlered deer.

At the time the deer was shot it was a KNOWN antlered deer,and should be tagged as such .Would he have shot this deer if he had already tagged a buck previously during the year? What it is at time of checking it in doesn't really matter to me.


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## saugeyesam (Apr 20, 2004)

I had this same situation occur about 6 years ago I shot a small six point buck that ran into some saplings after being shot and the antlers came off. I took the deer into the check station with the antlers and they told me it was considered antler less. I tried to tell them the antlers were on the deer when I shot it but they filled it out as an antlerless deer anyway. I should have called a game warden to clarify but nothing ever came of it after the fact and I ended up giving the antlers to one of the kids who lived next to me. But i would think it would be considered antlered even if it only had one side of the rack.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

saugeyesam said:


> But i would think it would be considered antlered even if it only had one side of the rack.


A half rack will indeed going to be considered antlered.


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## crappiehunter18 (Apr 25, 2010)

I don't think it matters if it had antlers when you shot it, its when you recover it and tag it that it matters if it has antlers. The only way they should have been able to check it as antlered is if they believed he somehow got the other side of the rack off the deer when he tagged it.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

crappiehunter18 said:


> I don't think it matters if it had antlers when you shot it, its when you recover it and tag it that it matters if it has antlers. The only way they should have been able to check it as antlered is if they believed he somehow got the other side of the rack off the deer when he tagged it.


Try selling that story to the game warden. All that matters is what was there when the trigger was pulled.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

If the deer is showing normal bases that indicate it has recently dropped its antlers naturally I doubt that there would be any issue at the check-in station with it being counted as non-antlered. They would have no way of knowing whether they were on the deer at the time of the shot. The point I was making in my earlier statement was that if either of the antlers are still on the deer it will be counted as antlered, provided they are at least 3 inches in length.

This late in the season it is not going to matter to folks as far as price of tag because they will need to use a $24 tag. I guess the only thing that would come in to play is whether you could legally shoot another antlered buck. The way I see the answer to that is yes you could if both antlers had dropped prior to checking it in. But me personally, if I shot the deer and it had antlers at the time I would count it as my buck. The law is there to protect the herd from excessive harvest of males and I would feel rather guilty using this sort of loophole to get around the one buck concept.

In the annual deer reports that are published I never see any category for shed bucks. I am suspecting that they group these in with button bucks and other non-qualifying spikes. They mark the sex of the deer at the checking station so it would be considered in the buck numbers, just not antlered.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

If what crappiehunter18 said was true, I could make a hammer part of my pack. Every time I shot a buck I could knock the antlers off and tag it in antlerless.  Why not, someone on the internet told me it was okay.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

M.Magis said:


> If what crappiehunter18 said was true, I could make a hammer part of my pack. Every time I shot a buck I could knock the antlers off and tag it in antlerless.  Why not, someone on the internet told me it was okay.


I wasn't implying that antlers could be broken off. Hopefully that is not how you interpreted my post. What I said was if the deer was showing normal bases when being checked in how can they prove that the deer had antlers at the time he shot it. I am sure it is not uncommon for guys to shoot shed bucks during muzzleloader season and not know until they recover the deer. I don't believe the ODNR expects everyone to treat those at antlered upon checking in a deer. If they do then some would be ending up with two antlered deer if they already have taken one.

I understand what you are saying about it mattering what was there at the time the trigger is pulled. To me that is true. But the checking station will have no way of proving that on a deer that has dropped antlers unless they are showing signs of being broken off.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

bkr43050 said:


> I wasn't implying that antlers could be broken off. Hopefully that is not how you interpreted my post.


No no, sorry about that. I knew what you meant and agree. I just had to poke fun one more at the idea that it only matters "if it had antlers when you shot it".


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

M.Magis said:


> No no, sorry about that. I knew what you meant and agree. I just had to poke fun one more at the idea that it only matters "if it had antlers when you shot it".


Gotcha!

Makes sense now.


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## crappiehunter18 (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm not saying that's what I would do, but there's is no way of saying unless the game warden saw you shoot the buck that it had antlers when you shot it. It would be up to the game warden if it should be tagged as antlered or antlerless because it doesn't say in the regs. I didn't say anything about breaking antlers off a deer so you could tag it in as antlerless, I said that the check station could reject somebody using an antlerless permit on a shed buck if they thought the person knocked the antlers off themselves haha, not trying to start an argument just trying to help answer the question.


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