# When will the fish farms wise up!



## [email protected]

and start selling tilapia!


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## Mushijobah

The 1970's called and wanted your idea back...

JK, but why do you say that?


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## [email protected]

They're cheap, have kept my pond weed free for two years, are prolific spawners and provide additional forage that grows off the unwanted weeds.


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## JIMS SVT

Where do you get them?Besides frisches.Lol


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## misfit

not to mention..................pretty tasty

i'm surprised they survive,much less reproduce with the temps here,being basically a tropical fish.i would also think the prolific breeding could also have more of a negative impact,than positive.


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## [email protected]

Not being able to survive the winter is a good thing. No chance of overpopulating since they die when temps drop into the mid 50s. From my personal experience, weeds start becoming a problem in late may or early June and continue though October. I've stocked tilapia as early as mid April and they die off sometime in October. The die off has never been much of a problem in my 1/2acre pond. I usually only get 1-2 dozen floaters that end up on the bank and nature (or my lawnmower) takes care of them pretty quickly.

Before:









Stock 15lbs per acre of these









1 week later and through October you get this









Then edible size by early fall









I'm not against chemicals but since stocking these is much cheaper and I don't have the trouble of making multiple applications per year and it helps my bass grow...why aren't they more readily available? They have to be replaced annually so it seems they'd be appealing to a farm. 

Grass carp are tropical too and don't really start eating until the temps warm up and don't effectively control many of the most problematic species. 

There are tilapia farms in Ohio but they grow tilapia on a contract basis and aren't set up to deliver or sell live fish to the public.

I'm hoping one of the gamefish farms will see this, contract with a grower then sell to us poor pond guys. Seems like the logistics would be similar to dealing with hybrid stripers.


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## fishintiger

Those pictures for the fish. Are they of the same "year class"? That is some major growth in 6 months. I could see the benefits of having them if you caught them in time you could stock up your freezer for the winter. That's amazing they can clean up a pond in just one week. Did you stock 15 pounds or 7.5 pounds since you said 15 pounds per acre and you said you only have 1/2 acre.


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## misfit

so,you're eating the "leftovers" after they've served their purpose of feeding bass and cleaning your pond,and before they die of in the fall?

tilapia.....................the true "disposable multi task" fish


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## beatsworkin

Just curious as to weher you get yours, cost, etc....? Nothing else was added to control the algae? I'd be interested in giving it a try.


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## [email protected]

I'm glad you guys are interested. My wife thinks I'm crazy.

The first year I started with 250 2-3" fish in February in a 7' diameter tank with a heater and makeshift filter. A tech school kept them as a project. By mid April we were having some serious water quality issues. Luckily water temp in my pond was 62 and to I hauled them home and stocked them. I counted them at stocking time and to my surprise there were 750 ranging from 2" to 8"...most were really small and probably were eaten by bass. By fall some were 12". FYI fish farms can raise market size fish in 9 months. 

Last year I only stocked 1 1/2 dozen in June that were 1/4 lb.. I made 1 treatement of cutrine plus a week before stocking and they kept it just as clean all season. Hauling 18 fish is much easier than a couple of hundred. I used a big sprayer tank on a trailer to haul the first years batch. Last year a rubbermaid tub with one of those 12v spray bar aerators did fine.


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## Mushijobah

Those fishies look yummmmy. Cool idea.


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## [email protected]

Here's the transport tank from the first year

















Last year was a much simpler set up

















Last year's were 6-8" long and seemed to survive fine, even in the presence of 4lb bass.


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## [email protected]

beatsworkin said:


> Just curious as to weher you get yours, cost, etc....? Nothing else was added to control the algae? I'd be interested in giving it a try.


I'm not at liberty to give up my source since quantities are very limited. In the past I've received them for free for research purposes. It's just a lot of trouble hauling them the distance. You can buy tilapia fillets for 1.99lb on sale...whole live fish should easily be within that price range...$6 would still be a great deal.

The before and after pictures are from the first year I tried them. No chemicals were used that year. 

Last year, since I stocked them so late I applied 1 gallon of Cutrine plus a before stocking and the tilapia maintained it algae free the rest of the year. 

Here's what the pond looked like shortly after applying the cutrine








It works good for me on the filamentous algae shown. The algae dies and settles to the bottom. Another bonus with the tilapia is that they seem to eat even the dead stuff, helping to clean things up. 

Here's a picture taken in August last year. Last summer was very dry the pond dropped to the lowest ever. The picture shows a little algae in the extreme shallows. The amount is very acceptable to me. It also shows that I wasn't using chemical controls. 










In previous years I had to apply cutrine about every six weeks from early April through September. At $30-$40 a gallon you could buy a lot of tilapia.


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## Fishman

[email protected] said:


> I'm hoping one of the gamefish farms will see this, contract with a grower then sell to us poor pond guys. Seems like the logistics would be similar to dealing with hybrid stripers.



Honestly, I mentioned this to my boss. The logistics for us, would be somewhat difficult once we put the fish in our holding tanks as they'de be exposed to cold water since we use all spring water. Even the growing ponds have strong spring influences... but using that water a source would be a pain in comparison to using spring water, which is basically a system where fresh clean spring water comes in and flows out. Resirculating pond water to hold talapia, although they're tough as nails, would certainly have it's hurdles.

I'll bring it up to my boss, I certainly think they have a unique place in lake management.

I was always under the impression you worked at Fresh Water farms up in Urbana Pondfin?


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## Fishman

Just out of curiosty, what specie of algae we're you working with? Can they keep hydrodiction under control?


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## WillyB

Just wanted to throw in my two cents. I'm another pond owner who would be interested in talapia. This is the 3rd year for my pond. I used cultrine plus last year and it works well but one of the ladies at Fenders Fish Hatchery told me it can really have an adverse effect on the spawn. So this year I have held off using it till the spawn is over. I need my gills to have a good spawn because I need the forage. Fathead minnows just don't last very long in my pond.


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## Spidey2721

WillyB said:


> Just wanted to throw in my two cents. I'm another pond owner who would be interested in talapia. This is the 3rd year for my pond. I used cultrine plus last year and it works well but one of the ladies at Fenders Fish Hatchery told me it can really have an adverse effect on the spawn. So this year I have held off using it till the spawn is over. I need my gills to have a good spawn because I need the forage. Fathead minnows just don't last very long in my pond.


yea what he said... me too.


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## [email protected]

Tilapia will eat pond weed, elodea, and watermeal too. Since hydrodiction is has a fairly simple structure, similar to filamentous alge I would think they would eat it. For the most part, filamentous algae requires the most effort to control in my pond. 

As a sidenote: Nile Tilapia are better suited for Ohio than some of the other types used in southern states. They are more cold tolerant and research has shown them to be more effective on higher plants. The are not legal in warmer states for fear of overwintering so Monzombique tilipia are utilized there.

I do not work for Freshwater Farms, LOL!!! I'm VP of a heavy highway construction company that covers 8 states. I wouldn't mind though if it wasn't for the old man treating me like a moron when I pitched this idea 3 years ago. He obviously didn't stop me and missed a good opportunity to learn something. 

What I'm suggesting for people like Jone's, freshwater farms, etc. to do is to contract with an Ohio tilapia farm to have 1/4 pound fish available for pickup in mid-April. Someone like Jone's could just hold them for delivery or pickup. They could even distribute to the local Soil and Water depts for their fish sales... Not to mention the hundreds of development ponds with lots of flowthrough and heavy nutrient loads making chemical control difficult.


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## Lundy

I would love to have a source and try them in my pond


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## [email protected]

Fishman, tell your boss it looks like you've already got 75 lbs sold and it's only been a day. You could have people sign up for their orders this winter and give them a week to pick them up once you get them in. Water quality would probably be fine in a good size aerated tank for that long. These fish do fine in low 60 deg. water and I've read with the proper RAS setup you can raise 1.5 lbs per gallon of water. 

I got a 1500 watt heater for the tank I set up to push the temps up to the low 80s in a somewhat heated building for optimal growth. The heater was only about $300. Carrying the fish overwinter would not be practical but a month wouldn't be too costly.


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## Fishman

I'll make sure to pass this info along guys, was only at the office for about 15 minutes today and the thought didn't even cross my mind... opps  I'll give ya an update in regards to it.

Tom


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## hang_loose

Just curious, How do you harvest these fish? With a net or will they bite on some type of bait?


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## Wannabitawerm

I don't want to stir the pot, but one question for the fisheries guys:

Doesn't this increase the chances of another invasive species issue? I know they are not tolerant of colder temps, but "nature finds a way." Does anyone think this could become an issue?


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## Fishman

hang_loose said:


> Just curious, How do you harvest these fish? With a net or will they bite on some type of bait?


They're very aggressive and pretty easy to catch if I understand correctly.



Wannabitawerm said:


> Doesn't this increase the chances of another invasive species issue? I know they are not tolerant of colder temps, but "nature finds a way." Does anyone think this could become an issue?



Not a chance in Ohio of this occuring.


I spoke to my boss about this, and he really thought it would be an issue with the holding of the fish and our water temps. Also, unfourtanly not many people know about these fish, and most people are familiar with amur so they're a lot more likley to purchase those simply from familiarity. He agrees they work, but is not sure there would be a market for these either.


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## JIMS SVT

Id buy some.


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## WillyB

My Amur's haven't put a dent in my algae. The only thing I see them eat is the feed I throw out. They are like vacuum cleaners on top of the water.


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## [email protected]

The tilapia are legal to stock in Ohio, they're common fish and would likely be banned if there was a danger a chance of infestation.

It seems as though it would be easier to sell the tilapia than the grass carp since tilapia actually work. Amur need to restocked periodically as well and I'd estimate that the costs to stock tilapia yearly would be close to the price as restocking grass carp every few years. The real saving would be that additional chemicals wouldn't be necessary, as is the case with grass carp 99&#37; of the time...at least to my standard of what is acceptable. People didn't know about grass carp at one time and permits were required to stock them in the beginning. People still wanted them, this was even before the "Go Green" trend that has such a following now.


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## [email protected]

Bluegill baits work good but dough balls seem to work best for me on small hooks with no weight. They fight as good as a similar sized bluegill. Their dorsal fins have about 1/3 more spines and seem to stick you a little deeper than a bluegill but if handled similar to a bluegill you can avoid most pricks.

They're harder to seine than most fish. I've tried twice and only caught two total with catching tons of catfish, bass, and bluegill. They bury themselves in the mud, even a mudline on the sein doesn't help.


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## buckeye024

I lived in Las Vegas for several years. Lake Mead has a large population of tilapia and they are considered an invasive species. There is no limit on the amount you catch and as a matter of fact the government asks you not to release any if you catch them. The governments problem was our gain...tilapia are perhaps the best tasting fish around and are fun to catch.


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## TomC

I know Jungle Jims in Cinci has them live and for sale. Got to buy them by the pound thou. They usually have a large tank full.


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## Fishman

TomC said:


> I know Jungle Jims in Cinci has them live and for sale. Got to buy them by the pound thou. They usually have a large tank full.


This is true.


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## [email protected]

I've been down this road too...

I talked to Jim at Meirings Poultry farm a couple of years ago and his son, I think, on a followup call. At the time they either didn't have any tilapia or did not have the right size and he said that they raise fish on a contract basis. A coworker from a past employer bought a house with a pond last year. It is shallow with a lot of flowthrough so he was really battling the weeds and stopped by a few weeks ago to ask how I kept mine so clean. I told him about the tilapia gave him the info on Meirings since it was within an hour of his place. His daughter wrote me this:

"I called the number you gave us and unfortunately they only sell their tilapia to one buyer (Jungle Jim -a large grocery store). "

I emailed Jungle Jim's to see what size they have and the cost. I'll post when I hear from them.


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## [email protected]

Jungle Jims has them live for $4.99lb. and are 1lb to 1 1/4 lbs. There's a good chance that they're all male but if you buy some, try to get some small ones and big ones both to increase your chances of getting a female. Please post back if someone gets some.


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## leupy

I just got off the phone with Jones fish and they started they are not set up for them due to water temps. If anyone finds a source let me know also I would be interested in giving them a try.


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## TomC

I guess Jungle Jims would sell em to you live. Ive only seen them hack em up for dinner. Im sure you would get some odd looks going in and saying i want 200lbs of live tilapia, and oh yeah could you deliver?


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## [email protected]

Jungle Jim's will sell them to you live. They said "bring a pump" which I guess means some sort of aeration. 

Not many people have a 20 acre lake....which would require 200lbs. 10lbs per acre has been sufficient for maintenance in my experience.

Figure this, a 1 acre average pond would require 2-4 gallons of Cutrine Plus minimum for 1 treatment. At $30 per gallon you're looking at $60-$120 for one treatment that will likely have to be repeated in less than two months. 10lbs of tilapia would cost $49.90 and you'd have algae control and hopefully some additional forage through fall.


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## Carpn

I know I sure wish they were in Ohio. Whenever we go to TX bowfishing we make it a point to hit some of the power plant lakes that sutain Tilapia populations. In some of the southern lakes they do OK yr round. This past yr we were shooting them on the Rio Grande river. Some of them get up into the 3-5# range down there! Here is a picture of one from Martin Lake in East TX.


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## TightLine

I'm not sure of the cost but there are a few Asian groceries in town that have them live in tanks. Cam Market beside Mad River Outfitters I think it's Bethel Center usually has them. New Asian Supermarket on 161 East of Sawmill (The old Fire Mountain Restaurant) last year they had them probably still do. There was another place on High St. around Clintonville which had them. I'm sure they'll sell them to you live or anyway you want them.
I'm almost conviced now to buy a few and try in our pond. I'll check on cost and post what I find out.


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## TightLine

Stopped by Cam Market on Bethel yesterday. They were sold out but do sell them live for $3.49 lb. I didn't ask but I'm sure that price would be negotiable for a larger qty.
On another note I was watching a show the other day about the Hyperion Water Treatment Plant in California. They use Talapia for one of the end portions of the water treatment process, when they get over a certain sz. they sell then off.


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## [email protected]

They also grow them poultry farm manure ponds. This is why I don't buy tilapia fillets at the grocery store. I can't believe restaurants sell these things for a $1 a plate less than walleye. Some are sold "Springwater polished" this is because the water was so nasty where they were grown that they'd taste too bad to eat.


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## Fishman

haha yup, they really are a hearty fish. In some countrys they're probably the fish of choice because of availabilty and many of them are raised on the ass end of a business (ie; sewage plants )


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## hang_loose

[email protected] said:


> and start selling tilapia!


I had to go back and find this thread because it was the first time I'd ever heard about tilapia. I've got some coming in May from Rainman. The way he is talking, these fish are catching on like wildfire. I just hope the tilapia hold up the end of their bargain.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up!


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## [email protected]

I talked to Rainman. He's a good guy and has the right strain. He said he's planning to come through in late May. I think he said he'll be going from Indiana to Northeastern, OH. I look forward to seeing how they do in other ponds this year. I heard there are something like 100 ponds being studied this year using tilapia for forage and algae control and one of the pond management companies up North will be offering them for sale...sounds like their wising up


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## Fishman

Good topic to revive!

Does anyone actually have pictures of how many fish die off in the fall? I'de assume there is going to be alot if they're left to their own devices? Sure, all of us here could handle it. But could the average pond owner?


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## hang_loose

Fishman, I think they all die off when the water gets to cold. From what I understand, when the water starts to get cooler, the smaller ones move slower and allow your predator fish to eat them and fatten up for the winter. The bigger ones are netted.


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## Fishman

I know they die in the fall... but what does it look like? Are we talking about hundreds of dead fish?


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## hang_loose

Fishman, I am new to stocking tilapia. Maybe this fall I can answer your last question. I'm just going by questions and answers I've read. Heck,,, I've never seen a live tilapia but I'll give them a try for a year instead of using chemicals.


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## [email protected]

Fishman, the die off wasn't spectacular, nothing like I expected. There was almost no difference between the year I stocked 750 and the year I stocked 18. I only found a few dead ones here and there, no more than 4 or 5 at a time totaling maybe 15 and nature/the lawn mower took care of them quickly. I considered taking photos but the die off simply wasn't photo worthy. It was nothing like a shad kill in a lake. As the water cools, they seek refuge in the very shallow warmer water making them easy targets for bass and the occasional lucky heron. In fact, I could see the bass thrashing in shallow waters some evenings at dinnertime. You can also start fishing them out in early October. I ground up pellets and mixed with egg, flour, and enough water to form dough balls for a very effective bait. My pond is 100' from my house, in a fenced in yard with two dogs so I don't have a lot of scavengers and certainly would notice a major stink.


I would not recommend stocking them into a pond that doesn't have a population of largemouth of decent size though. I started with 200 in the grow out tank the first year in February and by April I had 750. No predators and exponential reproduction would likely result in quite a mess come fall.


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## hang_loose

Good info [email protected] Thanks


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## [email protected]

Here's some of my notes from the two years I stocked tilapia.

December Had Ice and fished about an hour and caught 3 bluegill
March 25, 2006 Pond is full from rain and snow the past few weeks. Have not fished since all winter except for 1 good ice day in December. Can see Fil. algae on the bottom getting a good start 
April 10, 2006 Started feeding, fish taking feed well, feeding 1/3 rate caught 2 12" bass, 1 HBG, 1 BG around sunset
April 11, 2006 Planted 2 Thundering Cloud flowering plums and trasplanted 1 crabapple from front of house to South end of pond, caught 1 LMB at dark
April 12, 2006 Hostas popping up
April 12, 2006 Started feeding daily
April 18, 2006 Water temps holding steady in the mid 60s
April 21, 2006 Stocked 719 tilapia, many 1-3" about 1/3 4-6" and one 8"
April 29, 2006 85% of algae gone Bluegill getting active
April 31, 2006 Bluegill very active, tadpoles everywhere
May 3, 2006 98% of algae gone
May 4, 2006 Bass very active, caught 2 for the first time since stocking tilapia.
May 4, 2006 Noticing bullfrogs now 
May 16, 2006 cold rainey weather temps in the 50s
May 21, 2006 cold weather continues and algae making a comeback
May 27, 2006 Temps in the low 80s, algae gone again, Bluegills on their beds
July 1, 2006 Tilapia on nests, so are BG for second spawn, algae returning not as bad as when it started, stopped feeding
July 13, 2006 Algae worse tilapia seem to be eating , noticing small tilapia in shallows
July 20, 2006 Resumed feeding, noticing several clouds of fry in open water, saw a couple of 2" bass presumed from first bass spawn
August 3, 2006 Stocked 20 6-7" Hybrid Striped bass from Freshwater Farms
August 12, 2006 Matt and Kelley fished, caught tilapia, Bluegill, LMB, 2 channel cats broke lines.
August 18, 2006 Caught 30" channel cat on bluegill pond down about 14"
October 18, 2006 Tilapia dead
February 15, 2007 Ice 12" thick with snow cover
March 9, 2007 Ice melting around edges, 25% coverage of filamentous algae visible around edges and through ice in center.
April 11, 2007 Masses of frog/toad eggs present
April 18, 2007 Started feeding daily
April 23, 2007 Applied 1/2 gallon cutrine plus
April 28, 2007 lots of bugs on the pond surface, see approx 8-10 bullfrogs daily
May 1, 2007 Bluegills feeding vigorously, increased feeding rate, Grass carp eating pellets (no algae now), LMB aggressive
May 4, 2007 planted 24 water hyacinths, 1 Pink (Fabiola) lily, 3 blue pickeral weed plants from J&J Aquafarms
June 12, 2007 Installed Vertex aeration from Ted Lea at cleanponds.com
June 16, 2007 treated with 1 gallon of cutrine
June 21, 2007 stocked 20 female and 2 male tilapia
July 30, 2007 returned from Ontario, water muddy
August 3, 2007 Hot and humid Hyacinth growing spreading and blooming
October 6, 2007 Started feeding Aquamax Largemouth feed along with Purina Gamefish Chow
October 12, 2007 Water temp 67.4 F, pond 3' low
October 15, 2007 Began feeding at the South end to aid in seining tilapia.
November 7, 2007 Tilapia dead


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## Fishman

Very interesting! I assume you were eatting the big tilapias?


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## hang_loose

Wow [email protected], Your notes are very informative!!! Did the tilapia bother any of your hyacinths? 

Do you think June 21st was to late to stock them since you treated with cutrine the week before?

Last question I think...October 15 2007, How did the seining go with the tilapia?

Thanks for your time...


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## [email protected]

I didn't eat any. The first year I recovered a dozen or so good size adults that went to a tech school for overwintering and breeding. They were the ones caught on rod and reel. 

I caught everything but tilapia when seining...seining is a lost cause, they are too evasive. I used a 100' seine with mudline too. Fishing for them is more fun anyway...think 1lb plus bluegill....they have extra pokey dorsal fins though. Wearing a glove doesn't make you a sissy with tilapia.

June 21st was later than ideal but they spawned quickly and still saved me a few algaecide applications. Tilapia spawned in my pond that year grew to 6". I treated the algae since I only had a limited amount of tilapia available. That was a good measure of how many were needed for maintenance rather than elimination.

My water dropped all summer and the hyacinths were left on the bank most of the time. They were pretty but didn't spread as fast as I expected. No real benefit to having them as far as I could see. They die in the winter and the stalks take a while to break down. The tilapia didn't have much of a chance to do anything to them and I doubt they would anyway as they're a very tough fibrous and waxy plant.

There were a couple of times when algae started to return. I'm 99% sure this was due to the tilapia spawning. They are mouth-brooders and the females don't eat for a couple of weeks when they have fry in their mouths. This is a downfall for eating algae but contributes to higher success of fry survival. There are different varieties of tilapia, some exhibiting this behavior and some not.


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## WiseEyes

Jungle Jim's definitely has Tilapia for sale by the pound........ what is the cost per fish.....right know I spend nearly 2,000 dollars a season treating my pond


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## [email protected]

The problem is Jungle Jim's isn't mixed sex. They're all male grown on contract by Meirings Poultry Farm last I heard. I've talked to both on the phone in the past. For various reasons, live mixed sex delivered are 4-5 times the cost of buying live tilapia from Jungle Jims or other live fish markets (I think someone said they were available in Columbus too). I'm not sure what kind of stocking rate would be needed for all males as my experience has been with mixed sex with reproduction occuring. I would like to see, have even considered trying it myself to find out. If 16 or 18 1/4lb mixed sex worked for me before, maybe 40 all male would be worth while.Let's see.

If they're half pound fish at Jungle Jim's, 20lbs @ $6/lb.(estimate) is $120...less than 5 gallons of Cutrine plus so tilapia would be cheaper...The upside to same sex is there is no spawning so they'll be eating instead of brooding. The downside is no additional forage and very small tilapia can reach algae shallower water. I think it's worth a shot. I may even try myself.


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## keith_r

these folks ship white tilapia

http://www.tilapiasource.com/

(n.f.i.)


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## [email protected]

keith_r said:


> these folks ship white tilapia
> 
> http://www.tilapiasource.com/
> 
> (n.f.i.)


The biggest fish they list is 3"-5" and the price works out to over $30/lb. Too small and too much money unless your going to buy the fry and grow out.


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