# Muskie Help Again



## MuskieWolverine

Ok....so I'm not sure if I got spoiled by early June, or if I'm doing something wrong. In the early part of the month, we were going out, running lures about 8 feet down, and banging out 4-5 fish every trip. Nothing huge, but still fun.

The past few weeks, I'm running everything 10-15 down, trolling the edges of humps and flats, and averaging 1 fish per trip.....but, these fish have all been in the 40+ range.

I'm running Tuff's down about 10 feet on my out/long rods, and Jakes around 13-14 feet on my down rods. Trolling around 4MPH.

What am I doing wrong? Or is this to be expected this time of year?


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## Snakecharmer

!1fish per trip is way above average so I wowldn't worry about it. Fishing in hot weather can be slower than spring and fall.


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## Rainbow

A fish a trip!?! You don't know how lucky you are! LOL
I'd LOOOVE those results... check out my blog!


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## Legend killer

Hopefully you are fishing up north with water temps below 80...


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## Saugeyefisher

MuskieWolverine said:


> Ok....so I'm not sure if I got spoiled by early June, or if I'm doing something wrong. In the early part of the month, we were going out, running lures about 8 feet down, and banging out 4-5 fish every trip. Nothing huge, but still fun.
> 
> The past few weeks, I'm running everything 10-15 down, trolling the edges of humps and flats, and averaging 1 fish per trip.....but, these fish have all been in the 40+ range.
> 
> I'm running Tuff's down about 10 feet on my out/long rods, and Jakes around 13-14 feet on my down rods. Trolling around 4MPH.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Or is this to be expected this time of year?


LOL and yea one fish a trip sounds good to me muskie fishing...... Ive heard before that trolling i think just above the thermocline is usually good for muskie. Im sure the thermocline should be setting up soon in most lakes that develop one. Im more familiar with central ohio lakes not sure were your fishing... I also imagine you can find them in the THICKEST vegitation you can find...

Use the forums as a tool and go back and look for summer time muskie reports. Theres LOTS of them. Keep at it just because its hot they still have to eat...

Actually in this hot weather if i were to fish for anything i think it would be muskie. LOL just cause you can troll fast for them and create ur own breese to cool ya down.

Good luck and hope your #s pick up...


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## MuskieWolverine

Thanks for the advice....I guess I just got spoiled going out in early June and boating 4-5 a trip. They were smaller though..in the 20's and 30's. What I've caught this week has blown my mind..and I lost an absolute pig tonight. Never had a fish run drag like this...I thought I had a snag until it launched out of the water. Having flirted with the 50 inch mark twice, I can tell you there is probably a 55+ in West Branch...swimming with my 20 dollar lure in his mouth tonight.

How do you know where the thermocline is? I've heard it will show up on a fish finder, but I'm not seeing it. I'm trying to run my lines between 10 and 15 feet down.


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## MuskieWolverine

Water temps are in the 80's right now...making sure to get this fish back down as fast as we can, and not play them out too much. Seems to be working so far as all fish have swam away on their own...after a bit of work.


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## MuskieJim

On another muskie site, a few guys posted pics of floaters at West Branch. One was 43", one 41", and another was 46" all dead. Its hard to say if they may have been poor releases or the temps, but 80 degrees is HOT for these fish. If you are seeing that it takes some serious effort to get the fish to swim away, they may not make it. It's delayed mortality for the fish, as they will swim away, but eventually go belly up. Be safe out there and take extra caution if you are going to fish in 80 degree temps. I love muskie fishing but hang it up past 80, a picture is not worth me killing a nice one!


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## MuskieWolverine

I've been seeing more floaters out there lately as well, and I'm hoping none of them are mine. A guy in MN told me that after working them in the water, try pushing them straight down/vertically...tried it a few times, and they take off when they hit that colder water.

There was only 1 fish I was worried about a few days ago...I just removed the net to work him in the water a bit, and he just took off..fast....stayed near the top for a few minutes, but I couldn't get to it again..then he dove. So, hoping all turned out well for him.

I'll definitely think about hanging it up for a bit...I'm worried that the WB water level is going to drop so far that fall fishing is going to get shut down. 

Any advice on a safe/good release is welcome. I've read quite a bit on it, but always looking for ways to do it better. I'm not into killing these fish at all, for any reason.


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## MuskieJim

Fall fishing will be spectacular with the lower lake level! :T :B


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## MuskieWolverine

I'm hoping! I just hope they can keep the ramps open. I heard if it drops 6 more feet, ramps are closed!


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## Legend killer

Dude I can't believe you are fishing for muskie in the summer. What are you thinking????? "They take alot of effort to get them revived but they always swim away." I am sure your fish are floating on the top dead. Its hard for muskies in KY and OH to reproduce naturally. I know in KY they cannot reproduce naturaly. We need to take care of our fish. What is your justification for fishing for muskie in the summer, not to mention the hottest summer we have had in many years?


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## Saugeyefisher

Me? Cause its something i enjoy to do,and the dnr feels its ok for me to do considering they allow me to fish them when the water is above 80.... Actually i dont really fish for them that much at all but wouldnt let warm water stop me from fishing them. And when i acidently catch one i dont feel bad it decided to hit my plug. If I know a fish I caught wasnt going to make it I will keep and attempt to eat it or give it to someone i know will eat it. If one dies on me after i think it made it im very sorry it happened but am not gonna stop fishing because of it.

Muskiewolverine, Usually in our graph you will see a solid line of fish at one certain depth. 


<><><><><><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><>

Almost as solid as above


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## MuskieWolverine

Killer, a few things:

1. Please point me to a reliable source/website that says you should not fish for muskie in the summer. Every guide I've talked to said that this can be some of the best fishing of the year, as long as you are careful, and get the fish released as fast and as safe as possible. I'd much prefer to do all of my fishing when the water is cool...I don't have that option. I get on the lake as often as I can, and the summer is when I can get out the most.

2. You have really no idea how I handle fish...nor the 20 other muskie fisherman out on the lake every night. If it's looking whipped when I get it in, it doesn't come out of the water. Period. The only reason I even take one out is if it's worth a pic. I have yet to release a belly up fish, and I have yet to release a fish that hasn't swam away with a good amount of energy and under it's own power. (save for one a few nights ago that was hopelessly tangled up....it took about 5 minutes to get him going) Trust me, I'm careful, and I'm always asking pros at how they do it. We get the fish out swimming as fast as possible.

3. I don't feel I need to justify anything. I can respect your opinion, but I also respect the opinion of some other very serious muskie fishermen. If it was a major concern, we'd have a season like other states. We don't. If we had waters that stayed in the 70's all summer it would be great. We don't. Don't act like I'm out spearing sturgeon and clubbing seals, or throwing muskie into the bottom of my boat every chance I get. 

4. Is there a chance I've killed one or two fish this summer? Of course. Same can be said for you when you fish, no matter what time of year. I also killed an owl when it flew into the front of my car 10 years ago, but that doesn't keep me from driving at night. The worst condition I ever released a fish was a 25 inch late last fall, when it was about 50 degrees outside. I had no idea what I was doing, and I can tell you that fish probably didn't make it. That bothered me, and I make damned sure to try my best not to do it again. If all these fish are dead, as you say, then the lake would be full of floating fish. I've seen three in the past month, one of which had half of it's head wiped out by a prop.


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## imalt

1. Please point me to a reliable source/website that says you should not fish for muskie in the summer. Every guide I've talked to said that this can be some of the best fishing of the year, as long as you are careful, and get the fish released as fast and as safe as possible. I'd much prefer to do all of my fishing when the water is cool...I don't have that option. I get on the lake as often as I can, and the summer is when I can get out the most.

You said that you saw a bunch of floaters. I would think that would be your reliable source as to why it is a bad idea to fish for musky with the water temps this high. Not saying that those are your fish floating but why take the chance? Plus the majority of guides that are making money to fish are never going to say it is too hot to fish.


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## Burks

I'm waiting for the boycott and picket signs at all the Ohio Muskie Trail tournaments.


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## imalt

It will be the same guys that complain where have all the muskys gone come fall.


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## Catproinnovations

Burks said:


> I'm waiting for the boycott and picket signs at all the Ohio Muskie Trail tournaments.


Funny thing you say that because everyone seems to have a problem with this event but not a muskies inc. event or Ohio husky musky club event that holds them this time of year that's been goin on for years and years so why should I be reprimanded and asked to cancel my event and not these other tournaments?? Ive received nasty phone calls and everything?!? All the fish were caught Saturday and not one died no floaters on Sunday what's the problem?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## imalt

I don't think you should be singled out. And I don't know if some of the water temps in years past were as high as this year. But I am sure a few years had to be pretty close. I don't think that anyone can guarentee that every fish caught over the weekend survived though. But either way no one is ever going to agree on this topic.


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## MuskieWolverine

I would say that 99% of what I read, tournaments held, etc., all seem to point to summer fishing being safe, legal, and ethical. Like anything else, if done correctly. Until someone can point me to reliable info, and a lot of it, that says otherwise, I will keep fishing, and fishing safely.

I never said I saw a bunch of floaters. I said three. I've also seen probably a dozen other dead fish in the past month that weren't muskie...maybe we should just shut down all summer fishing.


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## Mr. A

I just saw a show the other day talking about Musky in general and the scientist stated that as a Musky gets bigger it's chances of being caught and surviving decline. He attributed this to the fact that a Musky will litterally fight to the death. The scientist stated that the chances of a mature Musky being caught more than once were, in his opinion, highly unlikely.


On the flip side he also stated that many Muski's are caught by fisherman that do not know how to properly handle one and when added to other variables, like type of water (lake or river), fight length, etc., that IF KNOWN may have significantly altered his data and resulting opinion.

What I took from that was if the angler knows how to properly handle a Muski and has the correct equipment so the fight is not delayed longer than needed then a fish is a fish is a fish....

The only thing that cannot be accounted for are Muski being caught be fisherman not trying to catch them in the first place I guess?
I don't always fish for Bass, but when I do, I prefer big'uns. Fish hard my friends....


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## MuskieWolverine

Malt:

What are normal water temps for this time of year? Since this is my first summer for muskie, I never really paid attention before. I will say that the last time I was at Salt Fork, the temp was 87. West Branch has been around 82-83 when I hit the water at 5PM. Usually be 9:30, it's around 79.


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## crittergitter

Mr. A said:


> I just saw a show the other day talking about Musky in general and the scientist stated that as a Musky gets bigger it's chances of being caught and surviving decline. He attributed this to the fact that a Musky will litterally fight to the death. *The scientist stated that the chances of a mature Musky being caught more than once were, in his opinion, highly unlikely.*
> 
> 
> On the flip side he also stated that many Muski's are caught by fisherman that do not know how to properly handle one and when added to other variables, like type of water (lake or river), fight length, etc., that IF KNOWN may have significantly altered his data and resulting opinion.
> 
> What I took from that was if the angler knows how to properly handle a Muski and has the correct equipment so the fight is not delayed longer than needed then a fish is a fish is a fish....
> 
> The only thing that cannot be accounted for are Muski being caught be fisherman not trying to catch them in the first place I guess?
> I don't always fish for Bass, but when I do, I prefer big'uns. Fish hard my friends....


I'm calling BS on this unless you can give the exact scietists name. That is completely false. Many times over 45-50" musky get caught more than once in a single season. I know of one guy who caught a mid 30's musky 6 times in one spring/summer. It was a clearly identifiable fish. 


As for fishing when surface water temps are 80 and above, most of the die-hard musky guys I know stop fishing when we get to that point. If the surface is temp is 84 then the fish need to get to 16 feet down to reach a depth with a decent amount of dissolved oxygen in it. As for tournys and pro's and such. I call BS on that too! The Central Ohio Muskies Inc tourney last July was cancelled, and if I recall the water temps were about 80-82. Most Ohio resevoirs this summer are 84-87. That's a death trap for a muskies. There is NO dissolved oxygen. Tony Grant, professional guide on Cave Run in KY, goes to northern MN to fish in the summer months. Mike Hulbert a professional guide in IN goes to northern MN to musky fish in the summer months. Chad Cain, professional guide on Lake Kinkaid in IL, goes to northern MN to musky fish in the summer months. These guys move up there and guide on those lakes because they know that if they continue to fish their home resevoir they run the risk of killing the fish. These are facts! Look up each of those guys website. They each have a forum. Go ahead and ask them about fishing their home waters right now. 

There are no laws or regulations against it. It's a matter of ethics. Guys who care about the fish and the fishery stop fishing. Guys who care about club points, money, themselves don't. I give the benefit of the doubt to guys who are new to it. Maybe they haven't really learned what it's all about. However, when you see dead musky floating on the surface of the lake you should be disgusted and realize that you are doing more harm than good by being out there.


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## MuskieWolverine

I think it's safe to say that no one is going to agree on this. I also think it's safe to say there is a way to point things like this out to others without sounding like a complete a-hole. Acting like a self righteous holier than thou muskie zealot is not going to help others convince anyone. I've always liked this forum, but there are a few folks who act like they popped a few too many roids. You want to convince me? Send me info, have an intelligent conversation, help me understand this. MuskieJim and several others on this thread have done a great job doing this. Actually, most posters are awesome. I just take issue with how Killer started this debate.

I'll do my part by continuing to look into this as much as I can, and if the evidence I find points to increased mortality, then that would settle it for me. A couple of floaters doesn't tell me to stop fishing. It tells me that there are people who don't take the time to properly catch/revive/release a muskie. I see it all the time. There was an idiot on the lake last week holding his fish up in the air for every boat that passed by. I'd bet that fish is dead. I've seen guys...all the time...boat their fish, then just toss them in the water. I call BS on that. 

I wonder what all those canadian and minnesota guides are doing with water temps in the 80's up there as well? Surely not all of them are fishing Leech or Cass. I fished Cass/Andrusia in early June, and the water temps were climbing then. From what I'm reading and hearing from guys fishing up there, they are at or near 80 right now. (Cass and Leech are still down in the 70's though)

If you fish in water that is 79 degrees, then you are just as guilty as me fishing when it hits 80. Fishing for any species in the summer obviously puts more stress on the fish. We need to protect our fisheries for sure....but I think some of this is taken to the extreme just like everything else in life.

Again, I'll do my homework and look into this even more than I already have. I'm not in a club, I don't do tournaments, and I certainly don't make money. I just like to fish.


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## backlashed

Burks said:


> I'm waiting for the boycott and picket signs at all the Ohio Muskie Trail tournaments.


You mean like this one?

The Saltfork Lake Musky Challenge
July 7th & 8th 2012



imalt said:


> It will be the same guys that complain where have all the muskys gone come fall.


That's a little over the top, don't you think?

I get the whole point about protecting a resource, but in the right hands, with the right equipment the release can be pretty quick. Certainly better than a bass or crappie fisherman hooking into one by accident, which happens frequently.


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## backlashed

crittergitter said:


> I'm calling BS on this unless you can give the exact scietists name. That is completely false.


I agree. What show, what day? Lets see his data.


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## MuskieWolverine

Something I noticed, is that I had more fish go belly up in early May than I'm having now. I'm taking more time to work them in the water just because of the heat, but the fish are popping up and staying much more healthy for longer. Serious question: why is that?

It seemed that in May, we'd get a fish in the net, and it would just roll over. No matter what..long fight, short fight, etc. 

The shorter the fight, in my opinion, the better the chance you put less stress on the fish. I'm using heavy gear, and getting them in fast. (Except for that pig I hooked the other night....and lost.....) I'd rather have a fish get off from horsing it in than play him out for 5 minutes and killing it.


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## Ol'Bassman

Any scientist that says, "that the chances of a mature Musky being caught more than once were, in his opinion, highly unlikely.", is not a musky fisherman and on this subject, we know better. A case to this point is the first 50"er to be caught at CC. It was caught by Mason52 and it was caught a week or two later by another guy. Both catches were posted on this website with photos. In addition, SOMA56 members have compared photos and have recognized many muskies that have been caught and released more than once. So if that is a direct quote, the scientist is wrong. 

I would also like to point out that SOMA56 does not schedule musky fishing tournament in July and August in anticipation of high water temperatures. 

Do all of us stop fishing for muskies in the summer, no. But we look for cooler water.


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## Mr. A

Hey fellas, if I'm wrong for posting something I can deal with that. But if I knew it was wrong I would not have posted it anyway. I was trying to add to the conversation not give point to argue over. I don't fish for Musky and don't plan to either....

I don't always fish for Bass, but when I do, I prefer big'uns. Fish hard my friends....


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## imalt

I get the whole point about protecting a resource, but in the right hands, with the right equipment the release can be pretty quick. Certainly better than a bass or crappie fisherman hooking into one by accident, which happens frequently.(quote)

Accidentally catching one while fishing for another species and targeting musky are two different things. A bass or crappie guy cant help a musky decides to eat their lure. But a guy throwing a 10" bait isn't fishing for crappie. 

Wolverine if you google catching musky in water temps above 80 degrees there are a buch of discussions that come up on the topic. Fish are going to die sometimes no matter what you do to try to revive. Its part of musky fishing but fishing when the water temps are in the mid 80's is really increasing the odds of the fish dying. And just because it isn't floating doesn't mean it didn't die; they can sink just as easily.


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## MuskieWolverine

I did google it, among other things. Finding the same type of discussions with guys against it and guys saying it's ok. I'm taking info in actual articles and tips much more than I'm putting stock into forum discussions on other sites. Everyone has an opinion.

That being said, the majority of what I'm reading in articles, etc., is just saying be cautious and continue to work on refining your release procedures. Also, no pics and measure in the water. I can certainly live by that from here on out. (though it's going to mentally break me if I catch a 50+ and can't get a picture.....but I can deal with that!)

I also wonder: On Saturday, the hottest day of the year, I saw more muskie chasing shad at the the surface than I ever have. Makes no sense, but it was happening.


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## Mason52

I have done my share of fishin for muskies in warmer water and judge no one for fishing at any time although I have shut down myself for a while to let water temps and oxygen levels to improve. I don't net or photograph any fish when I fish in warmer water. I also don't troll the thermocline in warm water.

Here is a great article by Elmer Heyob on the dangers of fishing for muskie in hot water conditions. Please use caution if you decide you need to fish for skies in the current water conditions we are having.

Delayed Mortality
The July 2010 weather pattern has led to a keen interest in hot lake water and how it might affect the incidence of delayed mortality on muskies being caught and released. The short answer is that the odds for delayed mortality are higher because of the water temperatures and the only way to completely avoid it is not to fish until conditions improve. The fact that State and private fish hatcheries, as a practice, do not deliver and stock even channel catfish in 80-degree water temperatures because of increased fish mortalities serves as a real world example. Can muskie anglers still fish and use methods that reduce the odds for delayed mortality? Absolutely. I have written and presented techniques at seminars for many years on how to accomplish this. Fast water releases are the key technique. However, this post is aimed at what effect higher lake temperatures have on our ability to release healthy muskies that continue to grow bigger and be caught another day not just to see them eventually &#8220;go-down&#8221;. It&#8217;s important to note that delayed mortality may take days and be hardly noticed but frequently it occurs by the next morning after the release.

Delayed mortality may occur from the combination of stressors a fish experiences during a catch and release fishing event along with any associated tissue damage and blood loss. Our lake conditions since the Fourth of July have become a major factor because the sustained hot weather conditions have warmed the surface waters above 80-degrees (morning temperature) and caused that temperature to reach all the way down to the thermocline. The dissolved oxygen at the thermocline depth drops below 4 ppm. This is a key point because once the coolest water available to a &#8220;cool-water&#8221; species like muskies goes above the 80-degree range or below 4-6 ppm oxygen, the fish reach a stressful situation. That&#8217;s why the odds for delayed mortality go up under these conditions. The fish are already at the point of stress before being caught. A muskie stressed by warm water or low oxygen will continue to feed to a point, making them vulnerable to angling. In fact, being cold-blooded means their metabolism is greater at higher temperatures, but eventually the stress shuts their feeding down and they start to lose body condition.

For example, both Alum Creek and Caesar&#8217;s Creek Lakes currently have conditions where the 80-degree water has reached all the way down to the 4 ppm oxygen levels at the thermocline. With continued hot weather conditions, it will only become worse. The oxygen in warm upper layer the (epilimnion) that doesn&#8217;t mix with the colder water below it with little or no oxygen (hypolimnion) will continue to reduce in depth, making the thermocline shallower and forcing the muskies into hotter water and even more stressful conditions.

It&#8217;s no coincidence that some of our best muskie lakes have cool or coldwater sources, whether from springs, ground water, or cold feeder streams. The cold water helps provide summer refuge from extreme water conditions. A side effect of summer stress is reduced growth. The good news is that we commonly start to experience better conditions by the end of August. Alum Creek, for example, starts to de-stratify by the end of August in most years. We were fortunate last year to experience an abnormally cool summer with water temperatures that stayed below 78-degrees in August.

There are a few other facts to consider while fishing during summer if you choose to do so. Years ago delayed mortality was not an issue because most everyone kept the muskies they caught. Anglers quit fishing if they reached their legal limit. As Muskie Inc. members, most of us strive to obtain quality releases and our hopes are to avoid delayed mortality. However, we could be causing more mortality by fishing at the wrong time or with bad releases than someone whose goal is to keep muskies. How many of us stop fishing after just one release?

Immediate, or near immediate, mortality fish are easy to spot because they float belly up in the surrounding area of the attempted release. Fish caught from deep water that can&#8217;t be released immediately will experience air-bladder expansion which also causes them to float belly-up. If they are too weak to swim back down to neutral buoyancy, they will die in the hot surface waters. Some of you may have seen my muskie presentation where I show a technique that is a last ditch effort to save a muskie that experiences air bladder expansion. I use my anchor rope marked for the thermocline depth and clip the muskie by the front of its jaw using a very short 4 lb test line and a #10 hook and then lower it back down to just above the thermocline. When the muskie regains its strength, it will pop itself free and not float back up. Some key points if you need to try this: you must know the thermocline depth or at least the depth you caught your muskie at. Below this depth there may be no oxygen plus the fish will only reach neutral buoyancy at this depth. Choose a release site that is just shallower than the thermocline so the fish can rest on the bottom. If one releases a fish that is not strong enough to maintain swimming after pulling free from the release hook over open water, the fish can sink like a rock if water deeper than its original depth is present. Water pressure is what causes this effect. More compressed oxygen in the air bladder is needed to remain neutrally buoyant the deeper a fish goes. A fish that drops below the summer thermocline after a bad release will suffocate and will not float. They lay in the cold un-oxygenated &#8220;anoxic&#8221; water and are slowly digested by anaerobic bacteria.


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## Snakecharmer

Mason52 said:


> Here is a great article by Elmer Heyob on the dangers of fishing for muskie in hot water conditions. Please use caution if you decide you need to fish for skies in the current water conditions we are having.
> 
> Delayed Mortality
> The July 2010 weather pattern has led to a keen interest in hot lake water and how it might affect the incidence of delayed mortality on muskies being caught and released. The short answer is that the odds for delayed mortality are higher because of the water temperatures and the only way to completely avoid it is not to fish until conditions improve. The fact that State and private fish hatcheries, as a practice, do not deliver and stock even channel catfish in 80-degree water temperatures because of increased fish mortalities serves as a real world example. Can muskie anglers still fish and use methods that reduce the odds for delayed mortality? Absolutely. I have written and presented techniques at seminars for many years on how to accomplish this. Fast water releases are the key technique. However, this post is aimed at what effect higher lake temperatures have on our ability to release healthy muskies that continue to grow bigger and be caught another day not just to see them eventually go-down. Its important to note that delayed mortality may take days and be hardly noticed but frequently it occurs by the next morning after the release.
> 
> Delayed mortality may occur from the combination of stressors a fish experiences during a catch and release fishing event along with any associated tissue damage and blood loss. Our lake conditions since the Fourth of July have become a major factor because the sustained hot weather conditions have warmed the surface waters above 80-degrees (morning temperature) and caused that temperature to reach all the way down to the thermocline. The dissolved oxygen at the thermocline depth drops below 4 ppm. This is a key point because once the coolest water available to a cool-water species like muskies goes above the 80-degree range or below 4-6 ppm oxygen, the fish reach a stressful situation. Thats why the odds for delayed mortality go up under these conditions. The fish are already at the point of stress before being caught. A muskie stressed by warm water or low oxygen will continue to feed to a point, making them vulnerable to angling. In fact, being cold-blooded means their metabolism is greater at higher temperatures, but eventually the stress shuts their feeding down and they start to lose body condition.
> 
> For example, both Alum Creek and Caesars Creek Lakes currently have conditions where the 80-degree water has reached all the way down to the 4 ppm oxygen levels at the thermocline. With continued hot weather conditions, it will only become worse. The oxygen in warm upper layer the (epilimnion) that doesnt mix with the colder water below it with little or no oxygen (hypolimnion) will continue to reduce in depth, making the thermocline shallower and forcing the muskies into hotter water and even more stressful conditions.
> 
> Its no coincidence that some of our best muskie lakes have cool or coldwater sources, whether from springs, ground water, or cold feeder streams. The cold water helps provide summer refuge from extreme water conditions. A side effect of summer stress is reduced growth. The good news is that we commonly start to experience better conditions by the end of August. Alum Creek, for example, starts to de-stratify by the end of August in most years. We were fortunate last year to experience an abnormally cool summer with water temperatures that stayed below 78-degrees in August.
> 
> There are a few other facts to consider while fishing during summer if you choose to do so. Years ago delayed mortality was not an issue because most everyone kept the muskies they caught. Anglers quit fishing if they reached their legal limit. As Muskie Inc. members, most of us strive to obtain quality releases and our hopes are to avoid delayed mortality. However, we could be causing more mortality by fishing at the wrong time or with bad releases than someone whose goal is to keep muskies. How many of us stop fishing after just one release?
> 
> Immediate, or near immediate, mortality fish are easy to spot because they float belly up in the surrounding area of the attempted release. Fish caught from deep water that cant be released immediately will experience air-bladder expansion which also causes them to float belly-up. If they are too weak to swim back down to neutral buoyancy, they will die in the hot surface waters. Some of you may have seen my muskie presentation where I show a technique that is a last ditch effort to save a muskie that experiences air bladder expansion. I use my anchor rope marked for the thermocline depth and clip the muskie by the front of its jaw using a very short 4 lb test line and a #10 hook and then lower it back down to just above the thermocline. When the muskie regains its strength, it will pop itself free and not float back up. Some key points if you need to try this: you must know the thermocline depth or at least the depth you caught your muskie at. Below this depth there may be no oxygen plus the fish will only reach neutral buoyancy at this depth. Choose a release site that is just shallower than the thermocline so the fish can rest on the bottom. If one releases a fish that is not strong enough to maintain swimming after pulling free from the release hook over open water, the fish can sink like a rock if water deeper than its original depth is present. Water pressure is what causes this effect. More compressed oxygen in the air bladder is needed to remain neutrally buoyant the deeper a fish goes. A fish that drops below the summer thermocline after a bad release will suffocate and will not float. They lay in the cold un-oxygenated anoxic water and are slowly digested by anaerobic bacteria.


Good article, thanks!


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## MuskieWolverine

Read that earlier...it's a great article. Tried finding his earlier article about good releases, but keep drawing blanks. If you find it, please pass it on.

I haven't tried catch/release without getting them in the net.....I'd be worried about taking a treble hook to the face with my luck. I usually keep them in the net/water and use the net like a corral. I'll give it a try though...stay tuned for pics of my trip to the ER.


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## crittergitter

MuskieWolverine said:


> I also wonder: On Saturday, the hottest day of the year, I saw more muskie chasing shad at the the surface than I ever have. Makes no sense, but it was happening.


There's a difference between a musky chasing a shad to the surface and a musky being reeled in through it. I would guess the musky does not get a lethal level of lactic acid built up in it's system when it chases a shad to the surface. However, when fighting for his life, it sure does. 

Shad are creatures of habit and fleeing to the surface is an instinctual habit for them. So, the musky chase them. This is when they are feeding aggressively..........they do still have to eat. However, they can calmly return to the water column that has the right dissolved oxygen levels and return to a resting state. 

You are correct about many individuals have many different views on this. My own ethics tell me that I ought to wait to musky fish again until the surface water temps come back down to less than 80. Those northern lakes are a LOT different than ours. Many may not stratify thus they may have a bit more dissolved oxygen in that surface water. Often up there the warm water is only the top 1 foot near the surface. However, my home lake is Alum Creek. It has little to no weed growth, little to no ground water springs feeding it, and no cool water resources. The hot water and lack of Dis. Ox. goes much deeper than 1 foot or so. Thus, the risk factors are probably a lot higher for me than someone fishing Lake Minnetonka.


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## MuskieJim

Mason52 said:


> I have done my share of fishin for muskies in warmer water and judge no one for fishing at any time although I have shut down myself for a while to let water temps and oxygen levels to improve. I don't net or photograph any fish when I fish in warmer water. I also don't troll the thermocline in warm water.
> 
> Here is a great article by Elmer Heyob on the dangers of fishing for muskie in hot water conditions. Please use caution if you decide you need to fish for skies in the current water conditions we are having.
> 
> Delayed Mortality
> The July 2010 weather pattern has led to a keen interest in hot lake water and how it might affect the incidence of delayed mortality on muskies being caught and released. The short answer is that the odds for delayed mortality are higher because of the water temperatures and the only way to completely avoid it is not to fish until conditions improve. The fact that State and private fish hatcheries, as a practice, do not deliver and stock even channel catfish in 80-degree water temperatures because of increased fish mortalities serves as a real world example. Can muskie anglers still fish and use methods that reduce the odds for delayed mortality? Absolutely. I have written and presented techniques at seminars for many years on how to accomplish this. Fast water releases are the key technique. However, this post is aimed at what effect higher lake temperatures have on our ability to release healthy muskies that continue to grow bigger and be caught another day not just to see them eventually &#8220;go-down&#8221;. It&#8217;s important to note that delayed mortality may take days and be hardly noticed but frequently it occurs by the next morning after the release.
> 
> Delayed mortality may occur from the combination of stressors a fish experiences during a catch and release fishing event along with any associated tissue damage and blood loss. Our lake conditions since the Fourth of July have become a major factor because the sustained hot weather conditions have warmed the surface waters above 80-degrees (morning temperature) and caused that temperature to reach all the way down to the thermocline. The dissolved oxygen at the thermocline depth drops below 4 ppm. This is a key point because once the coolest water available to a &#8220;cool-water&#8221; species like muskies goes above the 80-degree range or below 4-6 ppm oxygen, the fish reach a stressful situation. That&#8217;s why the odds for delayed mortality go up under these conditions. The fish are already at the point of stress before being caught. A muskie stressed by warm water or low oxygen will continue to feed to a point, making them vulnerable to angling. In fact, being cold-blooded means their metabolism is greater at higher temperatures, but eventually the stress shuts their feeding down and they start to lose body condition.
> 
> For example, both Alum Creek and Caesar&#8217;s Creek Lakes currently have conditions where the 80-degree water has reached all the way down to the 4 ppm oxygen levels at the thermocline. With continued hot weather conditions, it will only become worse. The oxygen in warm upper layer the (epilimnion) that doesn&#8217;t mix with the colder water below it with little or no oxygen (hypolimnion) will continue to reduce in depth, making the thermocline shallower and forcing the muskies into hotter water and even more stressful conditions.
> 
> It&#8217;s no coincidence that some of our best muskie lakes have cool or coldwater sources, whether from springs, ground water, or cold feeder streams. The cold water helps provide summer refuge from extreme water conditions. A side effect of summer stress is reduced growth. The good news is that we commonly start to experience better conditions by the end of August. Alum Creek, for example, starts to de-stratify by the end of August in most years. We were fortunate last year to experience an abnormally cool summer with water temperatures that stayed below 78-degrees in August.
> 
> There are a few other facts to consider while fishing during summer if you choose to do so. Years ago delayed mortality was not an issue because most everyone kept the muskies they caught. Anglers quit fishing if they reached their legal limit. As Muskie Inc. members, most of us strive to obtain quality releases and our hopes are to avoid delayed mortality. However, we could be causing more mortality by fishing at the wrong time or with bad releases than someone whose goal is to keep muskies. How many of us stop fishing after just one release?
> 
> Immediate, or near immediate, mortality fish are easy to spot because they float belly up in the surrounding area of the attempted release. Fish caught from deep water that can&#8217;t be released immediately will experience air-bladder expansion which also causes them to float belly-up. If they are too weak to swim back down to neutral buoyancy, they will die in the hot surface waters. Some of you may have seen my muskie presentation where I show a technique that is a last ditch effort to save a muskie that experiences air bladder expansion. I use my anchor rope marked for the thermocline depth and clip the muskie by the front of its jaw using a very short 4 lb test line and a #10 hook and then lower it back down to just above the thermocline. When the muskie regains its strength, it will pop itself free and not float back up. Some key points if you need to try this: you must know the thermocline depth or at least the depth you caught your muskie at. Below this depth there may be no oxygen plus the fish will only reach neutral buoyancy at this depth. Choose a release site that is just shallower than the thermocline so the fish can rest on the bottom. If one releases a fish that is not strong enough to maintain swimming after pulling free from the release hook over open water, the fish can sink like a rock if water deeper than its original depth is present. Water pressure is what causes this effect. More compressed oxygen in the air bladder is needed to remain neutrally buoyant the deeper a fish goes. A fish that drops below the summer thermocline after a bad release will suffocate and will not float. They lay in the cold un-oxygenated &#8220;anoxic&#8221; water and are slowly digested by anaerobic bacteria.


+1 Elmer did a great job with that article!



crittergitter said:


> As for fishing when surface water temps are 80 and above, most of the die-hard musky guys I know stop fishing when we get to that point. If the surface is temp is 84 then the fish need to get to 16 feet down to reach a depth with a decent amount of dissolved oxygen in it. As for tournys and pro's and such. I call BS on that too! The Central Ohio Muskies Inc tourney last July was cancelled, and if I recall the water temps were about 80-82. Most Ohio resevoirs this summer are 84-87. That's a death trap for a muskies. There is NO dissolved oxygen. Tony Grant, professional guide on Cave Run in KY, goes to northern MN to fish in the summer months. Mike Hulbert a professional guide in IN goes to northern MN to musky fish in the summer months. Chad Cain, professional guide on Lake Kinkaid in IL, goes to northern MN to musky fish in the summer months. These guys move up there and guide on those lakes because they know that if they continue to fish their home resevoir they run the risk of killing the fish. These are facts! Look up each of those guys website. They each have a forum. Go ahead and ask them about fishing their home waters right now.
> 
> There are no laws or regulations against it. It's a matter of ethics. Guys who care about the fish and the fishery stop fishing. Guys who care about club points, money, themselves don't. I give the benefit of the doubt to guys who are new to it. Maybe they haven't really learned what it's all about. However, when you see dead musky floating on the surface of the lake you should be disgusted and realize that you are doing more harm than good by being out there.


You make a great point Kyle. The guys who rely on this fish for a way of living stop fishing. That speaks volumes!

MuskieWolverine, I do understand your enthusiasm and passion for fishing, I really do! But fishing in 80+ degree temps is just not good for the fish, no matter who told you that it was. Elmer is one of the state's best muskie resources, as he has been a part of the stocking and fisheries for a long time. If you don't believe what anyone says on the forums, he is one to believe. We are talking days sometimes, between when you caught the fish and it dies. Imagine running a marathon then being put into a hot tub. Not a good mix. To each his own, it is 100% within your right to fish


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## MuskieJim

MuskieFirst homepage: http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/

"Summer Muskies Heating Up: A massive heat wave has shut down the muskie fishing in some areas as water temps reach the low 80 degree range."


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## MuskieWolverine

MuskieJim:

Thanks for the article and info. That's some of what I needed to see. What is a safe water temp? I was on WB tonight, and the water has dropped about 4 degrees since Saturday...it's right around 80, and 79 in the deep spots. Hoping it continues to drop, but I doubt it will for long.


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## esox72

Wolverine,

Well,15-20 years ago when I used to catch quite a few at the Branch (man that makes me sound old) our pattern in the hottest of the hot summer was fishing from 8pm till as long as you could stay up. Troll the thermocline, was year after year right at 17 to 18 ft and slow down some. Maybe 2 to 2.5 mph. Saw a lot of nice fish caught this way. As far as mortality rates go. I have no evidence but my guess is 25-30% are going to die released in this water temp no matter how you release them. I had a 49"er die one time that never came out of the water. Unhooked and measured with the net in the water and found the seagulls picking at it the next morning. Pissed me off. Good Luck!


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## Legend killer

A true muskie fisherman puts away the muskie gear through the summer...


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## Roscoe

Muskies are like a Plott Hound,they do fight to the death.You don't see all the Musky casualties float to the top.Many stay down,depends on how much air was in their bladder when released.If you care about Muskies,then you won't fish for them when it's 80 degrees or hotter.Simple as that.



Roscoe


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## Mason52

Just got on the MAL and there have been 110 or more fish caught in Ohio this July. 71 out of West Branch and I think 23 from Leesville. The rest from other lakes. So I have to assume this is not a one time thing just for this year and that not everyone agrees with the 80 degree mark as a cutoff. I'm not promoting fishing in warm water just stating facts. I have stopped till things settle down as I said earlier in this thread, but don't think everyone will do likewise. I got to think if a lot of these fish are dieing there should be plenty floating in W Branch. One thing for sure is that the bite seems to be on at West Branch.


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## Whitemw

Guys lengend killer is right... I found out the hard way when I first started... It was in July of 2008 I was a know it all 17 year old and I caught my first Muskie 35"... I couldnt figure out why i couldn't revive the fish it was the high water temps... Since then I stop in the summer ... People please listen its not worth it


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## Mason52

Mason52 said:


> Just got on the MAL and there have been 110 or more fish caught in Ohio this July. 71 out of West Branch and I think 23 from Leesville. The rest from other lakes. So I have to assume this is not a one time thing just for this year and that not everyone agrees with the 80 degree mark as a cutoff. I'm not promoting fishing in warm water just stating facts. I have stopped till things settle down as I said earlier in this thread, but don't think everyone will do likewise. I got to think if a lot of these fish are dieing there should be plenty floating in W Branch. One thing for sure is that the bite seems to be on at West Branch.



Actually it was 27 out of Leesville. so 98 out of 111 fish just out of those two lakes


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## Matt Kircher

Not going to cast stones on anybody but fact is when water gets over 80 you take a major risk to the safety of the fish. Some will live, some will die. If you are comfortable with that then so be it. I typically release 40-50 muskies per year and have relationships with many of the top muskie experts int he country and the main consensus is that pulling fish from deep water when the temp hits 80 degress is unsafe for the fish and a high percentage with have delayed mortality. It's fact not theory and this is coming from guys who have caught and released thousands of fish over the years. In fact, my good friend who guides on Lake Chautauqua has cancelled his muskie trips until the water falls below 78 degrees as deep water trolling is his preferred method of fishing. I would suggest if you like muskie fishing int he summer months concentrate onfishing shallow water, keep the fish in the net, take a water release photo and do not remove the fish from the water. Like I said before, it is a personal decision and I wont chastize anyone for doing what they are well within the law to do. But realize if you are pulling fish from deep water in 80 degree+ water you will kill a good percentage of the fish you catch. That's not an opinion, it's fact.


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## Matt Kircher

I am not going to tell anyone what they can or cannot do regarding this topic. However, I typically release somewhere between 40-50 muskies per year and can tell you it is a fact that when you pull fish from deep water when the water gets over 78 degrees you take a major risk in the health and safety of the fish. Some of my best friends are muskie guides who earn a living doing this and they will say the same thing. In fact a good friend of mine who guides muskies on Lake Chautauqua has cancelled all his trips until the water temps come back down as deep water trolling is his preferred method of fishing. If you want to fish muskies in the summer and care about the safety of the fish you should limit yourselves to fishing early morning or late evening hours in shallow water (less than 12 feet). Get the fish in quickly, unhook the fish in the net and simply dip the net and let the fish swim out. Do not touch the fish or take it out of the water as this creates unnecessary stress on the fish. Like I said, you guys do what you think is right but delayed mortality increases dramatically when fish are pulled from deep water in hot temperatures. It's fact, and my friends who have literally released thousands of muskies will tell you the same thing. I would encourage anglers to protect the resource and fish intelligently. Just my 2 cents.


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## Mason52

Was 110 fish now 130 fish caught in July as of today


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## Legend killer

Those are just reported fish.


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## Ol'Bassman

On the subject of fishing for muskies in the summer, everyone is free to make up their own mind as to whether or not to fish during the summer. There are no laws in Ohio against targeting muskies in the summer. Some say you should not target them at all during July and August. Some target them all year round. I would like to point out a few examples that I think produce acceptable conditions for targeting muskies in the summer.

1) Streams, Creeks and Rivers below dams that are overflow dam or dams that release water from all water levels. The water from these types of dams contain higher levels of disolved oxygen (DO). This is due to the agitation the water gets on its way to or during discharge. This is not true of dams that the discharge comes from the bottom of the lake. Water from the bottom of the lake is usually devoid of oxygen due to decomposition of aquatic life on the bottom. Bacteria and fungi consume oxygen during decomposition.

2) Streams, Creeks, and Rivers that are spring fed. The water surface temperaturers can be above 80 degrees and 70 degrees two feet down. Cooler water will hold more DO.

3) When it is or right after, it rains. Rain picks up oxygen as it fall through the air and deposits it on the surface of the water. Depending upon how much rain you get, rain can put a lot of DO directly in the water.

4) I also think that fishing areas with high quantities of plant life during the daytime might be okay because plants generate large amount of DO as a biproduct of photosynthesis and supercharge the water with DO. This is not true after the sun goes down. Plant respirate at night. I remember reading somewhere that most fish that die during the summer, die right before dawn because this is the period when there is the least amount of DO in the water. 

If you can think of other examples, please post them.


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## Mason52

I know that there is a spring on Clear Fork that people fish like a crappie hole, but some, if not all of those people are not putting them back anyway. Kind of like the pay lake at Green River, just drag them onto the bank and club them to death.


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## Legend killer

Ol'Bassman said:


> On the subject of fishing for muskies in the summer, everyone is free to make up their own mind as to whether or not to fish during the summer. There are no laws in Ohio against targeting muskies in the summer. Some say you should not target them at all during July and August. Some target them all year round. I would like to point out a few examples that I think produce acceptable conditions for targeting muskies in the summer.
> 
> 1) Streams, Creeks and Rivers below dams that are overflow dam or dams that release water from all water levels. The water from these types of dams contain higher levels of disolved oxygen (DO). This is due to the agitation the water gets on its way to or during discharge. This is not true of dams that the discharge comes from the bottom of the lake. Water from the bottom of the lake is usually devoid of oxygen due to decomposition of aquatic life on the bottom. Bacteria and fungi consume oxygen during decomposition.
> 
> 2) Streams, Creeks, and Rivers that are spring fed. The water surface temperaturers can be above 80 degrees and 70 degrees two feet down. Cooler water will hold more DO.
> 
> 3) When it is or right after, it rains. Rain picks up oxygen as it fall through the air and deposits it on the surface of the water. Depending upon how much rain you get, rain can put a lot of DO directly in the water.
> 
> 4) I also think that fishing areas with high quantities of plant life during the daytime might be okay because plants generate large amount of DO as a biproduct of photosynthesis and supercharge the water with DO. This is not true after the sun goes down. Plant respirate at night. I remember reading somewhere that most fish that die during the summer, die right before dawn because this is the period when there is the least amount of DO in the water.
> 
> If you can think of other examples, please post them.


I dont know about west branch or leesville but cc has no weedbeds as does east fork where they have been stocking muskies. Cave run has a lot of weeds and the guides hang it up in the summer. Even crashes guides don't get back out untill the end of august and that is only in the mornings.


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## Mason52

Many don't quit fishing, just quit fishin the Cave. There up in Minnesota or Wisconsin fishing/guiding.

157 fish caught in July this year


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## Tatonka

i haven't been muskie fishing in a lake for a month now
Water temps in June were around 74 degrees the last time i went, so with this heat wave the water temps are in the mid to upper 80s?
I may wait until September to target muskie again


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## glassbb6646

funny legend killer odr does not stop people from fishing for musky ohio muskie club has done great things to make sure muskies are in the ohio lakes and they are having the summer outing this weekend.. wow looks like they dont have a clue what they are doing.. not saying its not tuff to get them back in safe its hard but if you look at all the fishing in all the lakes they are trolling for saugeye and bass and still catching muskie so they will still be put in boats and still die from people that dont know how to handle them or care.. i know you getting on people with the best of maskies on your mind but they are not bad fisherman they are good and do there best remember some die in spring and fall also. sorry to go on but you are putting down some good fisherman. i have only been fishing muskie 30 years lost some but not just hot weather. keep the passion but dont cut down the fisherman loving to muskie fish leave that to odr and ohmc.


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## crittergitter

glassbb6646 said:


> *funny* legend killer odr does not stop people from fishing for musky ohio muskie club has done great things to make sure muskies are in the ohio lakes and they are having the summer outing this weekend.. wow looks like they dont have a clue what they are doing.. not saying its not tuff to get them back in safe its hard but if you look at all the fishing in all the lakes they are trolling for saugeye and bass and still catching muskie so they will still be put in boats and still die from people that dont know how to handle them or care.. i know you getting on people with the best of maskies on your mind but they are not bad fisherman they are good and do there best remember some die in spring and fall also. sorry to go on but you are putting down some good fisherman. i have only been fishing muskie 30 years lost some but not just hot weather. keep the passion but dont cut down the fisherman loving to muskie fish leave that to odr and ohmc.


I see nothing funny about dead muskies. Anyone with a brain in his/her skull can clearly and visibly see that fishing in water temps over 80 degrees greatly increases the chances that the fish will die. As far as I am concerned there are far too many muskie anglers that have a bad attitude toward that fact. They say, "others are doing it so it must be ok for me", or "well some will die anyway" or even "I paid for my license just the same as anyone else and I'll do what I want". What about the fish? It's unethical to fish for them when you KNOW the risk factor for death is greatly increased. 

I'll give you an example. Yellow perch are often caught deep in Lake Erie. Being pulled up from the depths causes their air bladder to swell. If you released one without doing something to dissipate the air in the bladder then you have assured the fish that it will die. So, if you went out to Erie and caught a limit of perch and kept fishing for them on the premise that you'll now just release them since you have caught your limit. Well, that is unethical. There is NO law against it. It's just wrong! 

Same thing for the muskies. It's wrong. You don't have to like it. It's a free country so do what you want. However, I get the freedom of giving you my opinion about it as well. Again, there's nothing funny about it!


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## glassbb6646

that was great and i agree that proves my point its a risk to fish for all fish in these temps but yet we all do. i was just saying Legend killer was cutting everyone down for fishing i wonder how he caught that big stripper the other day must be ok to fish for something that thay dont even stock anymore and the 80 water temp dont affect them must be a strong fish.. my point was new muskie fisherman was asking for advice he didnt want to help until water temps goes down and makes other post cutting people down for fishing. just saying if i was using a lure big enough to catch a huge stripper would a muskie hit it?? just give the new muskie fisherman a break and help them the more you help the better they will be.


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## Tatonka

glassbb6646 said:


> that was great and i agree that proves my point its a risk to fish for all fish in these temps but yet we all do. i was just saying Legend killer was cutting everyone down for fishing i wonder how he caught that big stripper the other day must be ok to fish for something that thay dont even stock anymore and the 80 water temp dont affect them must be a strong fish.. my point was new muskie fisherman was asking for advice he didnt want to help until water temps goes down and makes other post cutting people down for fishing. just saying if i was using a lure big enough to catch a huge stripper would a muskie hit it?? just give the new muskie fisherman a break and help them the more you help the better they will be.


The striper was caught in hot weather?
heck the only fish I had look bad in warmer water was a muskie, when water gets to 78 degrees I just measure with a stick in the water & release in the water
If someone is with me I tell them take a pic while muskie is in the water and i am in the process of releasing it
I haven't been out for a few weeks but i am getting the itch to muskie fish, I may have to wait until September 
I caught a 42" in 81 degree water last year, released it from the side of the boat and it took off about 100 MPH so ?


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## Mason52

This thread is a perfect example of why we've needed a tagging system, it will help people see what is going on with the fish in Ohio. If the temps in Leesville and West Branch are anything like Caesar's is then people are wrong about the hot water being a death sentence for these fish, because they are absolutely slaying fish in these two lakes with around a hundred out of each one (just in July)


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## MassillonBuckeye

crittergitter said:


> I'm calling BS on this unless you can give the exact scietists name. That is completely false. Many times over 45-50" musky get caught more than once in a single season. I know of one guy who caught a mid 30's musky 6 times in one spring/summer. It was a clearly identifiable fish.
> 
> 
> As for fishing when surface water temps are 80 and above, most of the die-hard musky guys I know stop fishing when we get to that point. If the surface is temp is 84 then the fish need to get to 16 feet down to reach a depth with a decent amount of dissolved oxygen in it. As for tournys and pro's and such. I call BS on that too! The Central Ohio Muskies Inc tourney last July was cancelled, and if I recall the water temps were about 80-82. Most Ohio resevoirs this summer are 84-87. That's a death trap for a muskies. There is NO dissolved oxygen. Tony Grant, professional guide on Cave Run in KY, goes to northern MN to fish in the summer months. Mike Hulbert a professional guide in IN goes to northern MN to musky fish in the summer months. Chad Cain, professional guide on Lake Kinkaid in IL, goes to northern MN to musky fish in the summer months. These guys move up there and guide on those lakes because they know that if they continue to fish their home resevoir they run the risk of killing the fish. These are facts! Look up each of those guys website. They each have a forum. Go ahead and ask them about fishing their home waters right now.
> 
> There are no laws or regulations against it. It's a matter of ethics. Guys who care about the fish and the fishery stop fishing. Guys who care about club points, money, themselves don't. I give the benefit of the doubt to guys who are new to it. Maybe they haven't really learned what it's all about. However, when you see dead musky floating on the surface of the lake you should be disgusted and realize that you are doing more harm than good by being out there.


And there ya go. Well said!


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## Ol'Bassman

Legend killer said:


> I dont know about west branch or leesville but cc has no weedbeds as does east fork where they have been stocking muskies. Cave run has a lot of weeds and the guides hang it up in the summer. Even crashes guides don't get back out untill the end of august and that is only in the mornings.


I think using what guides do and recommend as an example in this debate overlooks the fact that guides have a vested interest. Not that they are bias, its that their opinions are colored by the dollars they charge to guide. Their opinions are valuable but should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Legend killer

Ol'Bassman said:


> I think using what guides do and recommend as an example in this debate overlooks the fact that guides have a vested interest. Not that they are bias, its that their opinions are colored by the dollars they charge to guide. Their opinions are valuable but should be taken with a grain of salt.


If their opinions are colored by the dollars they charge then they would guide year round.


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## Mason52

Many don't quit. I know that Tony Grant and Greg Thomas are up North guiding as we speak, along with almost all the other major guides from the Southern muskie range. Don't get me wrong as I'm not promoting fishing in the hot water, just know that many of these guides do go up North and continue to guide when the lakes around here get warm. They plan their schedules around when they know the water will warm up and start booking clients on certain dates in June or July up North. Then move back South in the Fall and go back to fishing/guiding on there home waters. I wouldn't want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg either. I would probably do the same thing if that's what I did for a living, which I wouldn't want to do. Not built to be a guide...


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## Tatonka

Mason52 said:


> This thread is a perfect example of why we've needed a tagging system, it will help people see what is going on with the fish in Ohio. If the temps in Leesville and West Branch are anything like Caesar's is then people are wrong about the hot water being a death sentence for these fish, because they are absolutely slaying fish in these two lakes with around a hundred out of each one (just in July)


Caught 2 at Leesville yesterday, water was 79.5 degrees and both were released in good health
I was worried about one because it rolled up in net and it unhooked itself but I got him untangled, tilted the net down and he shot out of the net


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