# Black Guns



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

OK, I own a lot of guns that I use for hunting. I am getting ready to purchase an AR style gun. There are so many in the sales flyers each week from our gun stores in Ohio.

What have you purchased and why one over the other?

.223, 5.62 NATO, .308

My use will be to just fun shoot a few times a year and to purchase while it is still legal to do so.

Educate me please.

Thanks


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

Just stick with brand name and you will be fine, look for a manufacture that has a Wylde chamber and you can use both 223 and 5.56
Rock River is my personal preference but again all big name brands are fine


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Orlando said:


> Just stick with brand name and you will be fine, look for a manufacture that has a Wylde chamber and you can use both 223 and 5.56
> Rock River is my personal preference but again all big name brands are fine


i dont think this thread needs to go any farther... i agree with all of this. ive shot many ar's, but spent my cash on RRA. cant beat the quality or the trigger.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

I've got 1 AR10 (.308), 2 in 5.56 and building a third in 300blk. 

The only one I would recommend you stay away from are Olympic Arms.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

here ya go ...


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

if you just plan to shoot paper i would go with the 223. my 1st cousin has one of the ar 10,s in 308. and he hunts wild hogs. but i think the 223 would be alittle cheaper to just play with. just my opinion.
sherman


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

Also the 223 Wylde is more for a precision gun, they're harder to get on the AR15 platform. Look for a 5.56 chamber with a 1/7 twist barrel and you'll be good to go. You'll be able to shoot 5.56 NATO surplus ammo or commercially made or reloaded .223. 

*If you get a .223 chamber you can NOT shoot 5.56!* with the exception of the Wylde chambering if you go that route.


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

Sharp Charge said:


> Also the 223 Wylde is more for a precision gun, they're harder to get on the AR15 platform.
> .


Not completely true, all Rock River AR's come with the Wylde chamber from their bottom standard rifle up to their top of the line match rifle.


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

Sadly I have to let my Rock River AR go awhile back to make room for more toys

Heres my precision work Armalite M15 223










and my fun guns


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Lundy,
I took the plunge last Saturday. Sportsman's Den in Shelby had a big sale going on. I ended up with a Mossberg MMR "hunter". I had read some good reviews on it and liked that fact that it didn't look "overly tactical". Has a free floating barrel. I took my ex-marine neighbor with me who is a multi AR owner. We broke it down when we got home and he was impressed enough to consider getting his own. Here is one review on it-

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=29133

I'm just waiting for an optics mount to come in so I can put a scope on it. .223 ammo is like half the price of 308 so makes punching paper a lot cheaper.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

Orlando said:


> Not completely true, all Rock River AR's come with the Wylde chamber from their bottom standard rifle up to their top of the line match rifle.


I just went to their site, most of their rifles are chambered in 5.56. There's 7 or 8 that are .223 Wylde. DMPS, Daniel Defense, LaRue, BCM, Stag, CMMG, Spikes, Armalite are all 5.56 then I stopped looking. Like I said, the Wylde chamber is a little tighter than the 5.56 for those who are more precision shooters. Not to say you can't use it for plinking and punching paper.


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

Sharp Charge said:


> I just went to their site, most of their rifles are chambered in 5.56. There's 7 or 8 that are .223 Wylde. DMPS, Daniel Defense, LaRue, BCM, Stag, CMMG, Spikes, Armalite are all 5.56 then I stopped looking. Like I said, the Wylde chamber is a little tighter than the 5.56 for those who are more precision shooters. Not to say you can't use it for plinking and punching paper.


I stand corrected

OK try again , get either a Wylde or 5.56 chamber and you can run either ammo.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Lundy,
I have been looking at the Stag Model 8. It is piston driven so it will be much cleaner and cooler to operate. Not too many piston driven ar's out there for under 1000.00. If you really want to get dizzy go to AR15.com plenty of good reading there.
This is my R15 for yotes but I want to get another ar to play with. Like you I plan to get it while I still can.


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## triton189 (Nov 6, 2009)

bobk said:


> Lundy,
> I have been looking at the Stag Model 8. It is piston driven so it will be much cleaner and cooler to operate. Not too many piston driven ar's out there for under 1000.00. If you really want to get dizzy go to AR15.com plenty of good reading there.
> This is my R15 for yotes but I want to get another ar to play with. Like you I plan to get it while I still can.


I am looking into Stag as well. They seem to make a lot of their parts in house. I also like the fact they are piston driven which should be easier to clean. Several have also comented about the great fit with their guns as there is not much play. I want to pull the trigger soon before they are no longer available. Was talking to a police officer who works in the gun area at Dick's and he said the boxes coming in that are tactical have stickers on them now indicating Pre-Ban.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

triton189 said:


> I am looking into Stag as well. They seem to make a lot of their parts in house. I also like the fact they are piston driven which should be easier to clean. Several have also comented about the great fit with their guns as there is not much play. I want to pull the trigger soon before they are no longer available. Was talking to a police officer who works in the gun area at Dick's and he said the boxes coming in that are tactical have stickers on them now indicating Pre-Ban.


Thats a interesting little piece of new about the Pre-ban(maybe someone is jumping the gun a bit) There is a shop here in Columbus that just got a boatload of Stags. I tend to lean towards RRA, Smith or Bushmaster.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

Sounds like they're just trying to hype up sales with the preban stickers. But Stag Rifles are good to go. 

There's also a fairly new rifle on the market by Windham Weaponry. They were started by the same guy who founded Bushmaster. I guess Bushmaster was bought out and his no compete clause expired so he restarted making AR's and also brought back a lot of the original gun smith's that he had when Bushmaster took off. I've not shot one of these rifle's yet, but a friend picked one up a few weeks ago at a good price. I'm looking forward to seeing how this rifle performs. 

Here's the company link: http://www.windhamweaponry.com/


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## ODNR3723 (Apr 12, 2007)

Orlando, I have that Armalite Upper on a Lewis Lower. 60 grain Hornady handloads and it is lights out. Shoots so good I am selling my Bushmaster Predator. (No that is not a plug to try and sell the rifle on here.) What does your rifle shoot best? As to the original post. All good information on here. I like Lewis Machine & Tool. Solid rifles. Own one in 5.56 and one in .308. Bushmaster makes good rifles. We put ours through the ringer in a rifle class last fall. Rainy and muddy. We were doing one handed clearing drills on the deck. They took it and performed flawlessly. Maintain them and they will treat you well.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

What stores sell the Stag's in central Ohio?

. I would like to take a look at them.

Thanks


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Vances and New Albany Shooting supply show up as dealers from what I saw on Stags website. They have a dealer locator you can look at.


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## angler69 (Sep 26, 2005)

Anyone in central Ohio sell uppers and have a good selection?
Also looking into a 300 blk. Would like to get a 16" barrel and cut it down to 14 or so and have flash hider perm. Attached.
Would I need pistol gas system?


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

angler69 said:


> Anyone in central Ohio sell uppers and have a good selection?
> Also looking into a 300 blk. Would like to get a 16" barrel and cut it down to 14 or so and have flash hider perm. Attached.
> Would I need pistol gas system?
> 
> ...


I think anything less then 16" requires a federal permit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-barreled_rifle


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

angler69 said:


> Anyone in central Ohio sell uppers and have a good selection?
> Also looking into a 300 blk. Would like to get a 16" barrel and cut it down to 14 or so and have flash hider perm. Attached.
> Would I need pistol gas system?
> 
> ...


No, you would still be able to run a carbine length gas system on that rifle. If you went down below 12" run a pistol length gas system. Or, if you're going to run a suppressor you may want the pistol length system to cycle the weapon with 220gr subsonic rounds.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

boatnut said:


> I think anything less then 16" requires a federal permit?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-barreled_rifle


You would be correct except he said he would have a flash suppressor permanently attached. That would bring his OAL to 16" and he doesn't need to run paperwork for a stamp on an SBR. If he didn't get the flash suppressor pinned then he would need to.

In my opinion, if you're going to cut the barrel down below 16" just submit the form 1 and $200 to the ATF to register your lower. There's no advantage to a 14.5 barrel and a perm. flash suppressor or muzzle brake.


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

ODNR3723 said:


> Orlando, I have that Armalite Upper on a Lewis Lower. 60 grain Hornady handloads and it is lights out. Shoots so good I am selling my Bushmaster Predator. (No that is not a plug to try and sell the rifle on here.) What does your rifle shoot best?


Been running 75 gr Hornady at 300yds and over. Just bought a Geiselle Match trigger for it but havent been to the range to try it yet. Have it tuned down to 2lbs 10oz


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## angler69 (Sep 26, 2005)

I didn't want to mess with the tax stamp and our local CLE will not sign off on SBR/cans/class 3

Agree not much difference between full16" + flash and a 14.? And flash

CMMG uppers any good? Looking at 300 blk and they make a 14.7 w flash

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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

angler69 said:


> I didn't want to mess with the tax stamp and our local CLE will not sign off on SBR/cans/class 3


If I were to consider a silencer/class 3 etc. I would consider spending the extra dollars to have a lawyer draw up a trust and have the license in the trust's name. No need for fingerprinting/photo's/local sign off. In addition, if you name others as trustee's then they can legally use the item as well. 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/04/jim-barrett/idea-of-the-day-setting-up-an-nfa-gun-trust/


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## eatinbass (Aug 6, 2012)

Lundy said:


> OK, I own a lot of guns that I use for hunting. I am getting ready to purchase an AR style gun. There are so many in the sales flyers each week from our gun stores in Ohio.
> 
> What have you purchased and why one over the other?
> 
> ...


The AR platforms are the "Legos" of guns. If you don't care for a feature, its simple to change out.

My personal experiences have been 5.56, Wylde, and 7.62 chambers and a handful of manufactures; 

The best machine work I have seen is on a Ruger SR-556.

The most accurate out of the box I have is a STAG 

Most hated [email protected]#@$ Bushmaster LR-308 

When shopping I look for a tight fit between the upper and lower. Shake the rifle and listen for rattling between the two halves.Closely examine the machine work where the BCG rides in the upper. Field strip the rifle looking for anything "odd".

_ (I hand load, tune, and do all of my own gunsmithing. My opinions are not bias toward any manufacture, I just like an accurate gun. )_


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

angler69 said:


> I didn't want to mess with the tax stamp and our local CLE will not sign off on SBR/cans/class 3
> 
> Agree not much difference between full16" + flash and a 14.? And flash
> 
> ...


CMMG makes pretty good stuff. There was an issue with some of their lowers where the mag well was a little tight and wouldn't take a P-Mag. Haven't heard any negative things about their uppers though. 

If you can buy a 300BLK upper, jump on it, I'm building one now and with everyone freaking out about the election everything is hard to get. 

As for the CLEO signature, do a trust as Boatnut mentioned. That's what I've set up and have 2 cans in the pipeline right now. My BLK build is going to be registered, I've just got to send the lower off to engrave and mail the Form 1 and check to the ATF to start the big wait.


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## buck.eyehunter (May 27, 2007)

Rock river is your best bet for a standard.
My father in law shoots long range service rifle at camp perry and such..
He builds his rifles and uses most all RR
Parts. He bought his daughters rock rivers.lol
Get a slide fire stock pretty crazy....

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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

Gun Envy on Indianola couple miles from Vances.


Lundy said:


> What stores sell the Stag's in central Ohio?
> 
> . I would like to take a look at them.
> 
> Thanks


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

So what did you decide Lundy??


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Stag Model 8 Plus package

Can't find one in stock will order this week


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Stag is a great gun.....I have one for coyote calling.


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