# Let's talk cheater's and techniques?



## hopin to cash

Just finished reading a thread on a Florida cheating scandal and wondered how many other ways there are to cheat? The Florida ring was based on baiting brush piles with dog food bags that would attract bait fish in turn attracting bass. I wondered what the reality of that is and if was actually cheating. I watched a guy feed fish for years at Berlin from his dock and out of respect generally avoided fishing it.:T


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## dillon basser

how about when people take bass from one area of the lake and put them in another spot then go back on tourment nite and catch them and turn them in at the weigh in,is that cheating or just unsportman ship?


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## briney dave

there needs to be very stiff penalties for such acts: that sort of scum should not be allowed to fish another tournament anywhere: (yep, I know that is nearly impossible to even think about let alone enforce) but that food is pollution to the lake. bacteria will draw down O2 supplies in that small area. More than a couple knuckle heads doing crap like that and a lake can be killed

I have no tolerence for someone who can't win fair and square; that if you aren't cheating you aren't trying crap is for loosers


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## MassillonBuckeye

briney dave said:


> there needs to be very stiff penalties for such acts: that sort of scum should not be allowed to fish another tournament anywhere: (yep, I know that is nearly impossible to even think about let alone enforce) but that food is pollution to the lake. bacteria will draw down O2 supplies in that small area. More than a couple knuckle heads doing crap like that and a lake can be killed
> 
> I have no tolerence for someone who can't win fair and square; that if you aren't cheating you aren't trying crap is for loosers


Its fraud yet some tournament directors don't pursue charges? I know of a circuit here in Ohio I'd never fish because they just kinda did away with the guys and never mentioned it again? Unacceptable!


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## ShakeDown

What you may fail to realize, is that the burden of proof is on the accuser (which is not always as easy as it sounds) and the amount of money/time it takes to prosecute someone is crazy as a result. Most circuits don't have the time/money for such an endeavor, even if the state prosecutes...THEN, you still have potential counter suits, and court costs. Stuff isn't free man. 

A lot of times the only cost effective way to handle it is to get a payback, ban and blacklist...Most circuits can't afford much.


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## M.Magis

briney dave said:


> but that food is pollution to the lake. bacteria will draw down O2 supplies in that small area. More than a couple knuckle heads doing crap like that and a lake can be killed


I don't have any input, but I'm just curious what you're referring to? What can kill a lake?


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## lotaluck

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Its fraud yet some tournament directors don't pursue charges? I know of a circuit here in Ohio I'd never fish because they just kinda did away with the guys and never mentioned it again? Unacceptable!


We had a very active OGF member last year get caught cheating on a northern ohio circuit. Failed a lie detecter, and admited to cheating. Not sure what ever happend to it because after the initial outrage it was never heard of again. Funny though because even though he used a screen name hes still too ashamed to make any more post here.


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## MassillonBuckeye

ShakeDown said:


> What you may fail to realize, is that the burden of proof is on the accuser (which is not always as easy as it sounds) and the amount of money/time it takes to prosecute someone is crazy as a result. Most circuits don't have the time/money for such an endeavor, even if the state prosecutes...THEN, you still have potential counter suits, and court costs. Stuff isn't free man.
> 
> A lot of times the only cost effective way to handle it is to get a payback, ban and blacklist...Most circuits can't afford much.


Yeah, I get what you are saying. Cost wise, you could recoup your losses through litigation. Pick your poison I suppose. We can propose what Texas did. Make it a felony. I think it already is based on the amount of the prize but I'm not sure how the law works. If the circuit doesn't have integrity, it won't have many boats. If you don't take the time to take care of this stuff, the honest people won't take the time to show up and fish.

http://www.lsonews.com/fishing-news/1599-legislature-passes-fish-fraud-bill


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## MassillonBuckeye

lotaluck said:


> We had a very active OGF member last year get caught cheating on a northern ohio circuit. Failed a lie detecter, and admited to cheating. Not sure what ever happend to it because after the initial outrage it was never heard of again. Funny though because even though he used a screen name hes still too ashamed to make any more post here.


He has posted since then. Nowhere near as much as he used to. Takes some balls to show your face again eh? I say Ogf should have banned him but what do I know? In a sport mainly dependent on Honor, you really can't spare any expense keeping guys honest.


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## ShakeDown

MassillonBuckeye said:


> He has posted since then. Nowhere near as much as he used to. Takes some balls to show your face again eh? I say Ogf should have banned him but what do I know? In a sport mainly dependent on Honor, you really can't spare any expense keeping guys honest.


And deny you guys the ability to speak your mind to him? No way


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## MassillonBuckeye

That would be against the TOS! We break no rules here buddy! 

I was kinda hoping he'd continue his quest for the great white turtle(and lose).. lol. What a thread.


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## briney dave

M.Magis said:


> I don't have any input, but I'm just curious what you're referring to? What can kill a lake?


nutrient pollution from dog food. Sure it would take a lot to litteally kill a lake but spot damage will result meaning the total production of the lake falls over time

there would be a rise in algae followed by a rise in decomposing bacteria that will remove O2 in those areas at a unnatural rate. 

I would have no clue as to how much it would really take to create noticable damage to a lake without some hard number crunching but honestly there is no reason to find out


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## Mr. A

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Yeah, I get what you are saying. Cost wise, you could recoup your losses through litigation. Pick your poison I suppose. We can propose what Texas did. Make it a felony. I think it already is based on the amount of the prize but I'm not sure how the law works. If the circuit doesn't have integrity, it won't have many boats. If you don't take the time to take care of this stuff, the honest people won't take the time to show up and fish.


not exactly sure how serious local prosecutors would take it but if you could tie the cheating to theft or fraud then all you have to do is show that the amount taken by the cheater is over $1000. Then its a felony anyway.

Andrew


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## Red1

I have always thought that when there is people and money involved a small percentage will look for an edge.


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## Harbor Hunter

I personally believe that the very best way to take care of a situation involving somebody/team that's caught cheating in a tournament is to impose a lifetime ban on them from that circuit.After that the guilty party should have their picture(s) put onto as many fishing/tournament websites as possible.If the TX director,or any angler fishing the TX knows if the guilty party belongs to a national organization such as B.A.S.S. or FLW they should contact that organization and make them aware that one of their members was caught cheating in a tournament.Before going through all that make sure the accused is 100% guilty.


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## hopin to cash

The question being asked was how do people cheat and when does unethical fishing cross the line to blatant cheating?

EX: guys spend 2 weeks on a lake pre-fishing and focus on all the original hot spots... (stinging fish after fish but never fish those spots on tourny day)

un-ethical or cheating?

We all know the basket of fish deal but lets talk about the not so obvious stuff.

Do people really catch fish transport them to a secluded bay and go back and fish for them?


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## Danshady

> 2 weeks on a lake pre-fishing and focus on all the original hot spots... (stinging fish after fish but never fish those spots on tourny day


if you spend 2 weeks on a lake catchn fish, you are going to fish the best places you think you can catch them in a tourney. who cares if you dont fish other places where you "stung" lots of fish.


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## Danshady

> Do people really catch fish transport them to a secluded bay and go back and fish for them


lol good luck catchn them again!


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## GARNERMAN357

I have heard of people transporting fish for turnys and its rather easy to catch them. not sure if its cheating but my opinon is that theres no sportsmanship in that. also heard of guys buying boxes full of live crawdads and dumping them a week before turny and baiting an area making the fish come to them. also bad sportsmanship. I love the competition and thrive off the challenge to figure the puzzle out of where the fish are and how to catch them. I also want to do it better than everyone else out there with me. but as it goes im sure there are people out there cheating and trying to cheat whenever they can for some easy cash but I dont let them ruin my favorite pasttime. however I think there does need to be much harder punishments for guys caught with 100% no doubt that they cheated. I dont know the guys from the X series last year but felt tom and the guys at vics did a good job handling it. and those guys are forever labled as it and have to live with it the rest of there lives. no doubt they regret it. I bet they lost some friends and respect that they will never get back. cant take the money with you to the grave so why cheat and ruin your name for it. just my 2 cents


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## Bad Bub

hopin to cash said:


> The question being asked was how do people cheat and when does unethical fishing cross the line to blatant cheating?
> 
> EX: guys spend 2 weeks on a lake pre-fishing and focus on all the original hot spots... (stinging fish after fish but never fish those spots on tourny day)
> 
> un-ethical or cheating?
> 
> We all know the basket of fish deal but lets talk about the not so obvious stuff.
> 
> Do people really catch fish transport them to a secluded bay and go back and fish for them?


David Dudley took a bunch of heat a while back for "sore mouthing" fish during practice to make it harder for other anglers to catch them....
Basically, it was a spawn time/sight fishing tournament and he drew a late flight/boat number and knew he wouldn't get on the major spawning areas before everyone else. So, he came up with a way to play "defense" in a sport that nobody thought you could do it in. Was it "cheating"? By rule, no. Sportsmanlike? It's still heavily debated.... I'm sure he wasn't the first to do it, but he was the first to be publicly criticized for it and it's as far as I know the sole reason he doesn't fish B.A.S.S. tournaments on the elite level.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## sherman51

there are just so many way a person can cheat its hard to catch all of them. I guess some are illegal and some are just not ethical. but where do you draw the line?? I don't fish tournaments but I have fished a few where I use to work. and I don't know if its legal to catch a fish one place and release it at another place. I have done this before but not so I could go back and hopefully catch that fish again. but I was planning to keep the fish then didn't catch enough for a good meal and just released the fish where I was at. but I could see where some would say it is not ethical to do this before a tournament. but it would really be hard to prove intent.

I also heard about the ogf member that was involved in the cheating scandal. I heard a lot of guys slamming him on here but I wasn't there and don't even know what they caught him doing. personally I really liked the guy and if somebody really knows the lowdown on his story and what was done to him by the tourney guys would you please pm me this info. I would really like to know if he was found to be cheating or if someone just accused him of doing something wrong. im sure he had friends on here that knows the whole story. I would give all you guys the benefit of doubt until you were proven guilty.
sherman
sherman


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## Buzzking

IMHO trying to "load" a spot could never work out due to predator-to-prey ratios the fish would seek out cover & food. As far as "beating" another fellows fish goes it is definately unsportsmanlike to see the other guy hitting a spot, catch a fish, he leaves, and you go over there decimating his spot -*and you don't go back to fish it in the tourney.*Now if the same scenario presents itself, and you go over catch a fish or two. Shake off one or two and come back in the tourney to fish it then I think that's fair. You just have to make sure the other guy doesn't get an earlier draw then you!


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## JF1

Or that you have a faster boat ;-)


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## Buzzking

JF1 said:


> Or that you have a faster boat ;-)


I'll drink to that!:Banane35:


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## lordofthepunks

sherman51 said:


> there are just so many way a person can cheat its hard to catch all of them. I guess some are illegal and some are just not ethical. but where do you draw the line?? I don't fish tournaments but I have fished a few where I use to work. and I don't know if its legal to catch a fish one place and release it at another place. I have done this before but not so I could go back and hopefully catch that fish again. but I was planning to keep the fish then didn't catch enough for a good meal and just released the fish where I was at. but I could see where some would say it is not ethical to do this before a tournament. *but it would really be hard to prove intent.
> *
> I also heard about the ogf member that was involved in the cheating scandal. I heard a lot of guys slamming him on here but I wasn't there and don't even know what they caught him doing. personally I really liked the guy and if somebody really knows the lowdown on his story and what was done to him by the tourney guys would you please pm me this info. I would really like to know if he was found to be cheating or if someone just accused him of doing something wrong. im sure he had friends on here that knows the whole story. I would give all you guys the benefit of doubt until you were proven guilty.
> sherman
> sherman


it wouldn't be hard to prove intent... there is no reason, ever, for a guy practicing for a tournament to have bass in his livewell... we don't keep fish, especially during prefish periods.....


when it comes to burning someone elses fish... those fish don't become someone elses fish until the tournament starts... 

bed fish are unique... I happen to suck badly at bed fishing, so when I see a fish on a bed during practice, I usually try to catch it because I need the practice... am I burning someone elses fish, maybe.... I don't care... im concerned with what im doing and getting better, not whether or not someone else has laid claim to bed fish before the tournament has even started...

in the big tournament, we don't even get our boat numbers until the night before the tournament starts anyway, so going out and smoking a bunch of fish may or may not help you... im more concerned about catching my fish during the tourney than guessing at which fish I can burn and not burn myself....


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## Harbor Hunter

So true.When I'm pre-fishing for a bigger tournament I rarely try to even get many bites.If I'm unfamiliar with the body of water I just try to punch in a few likely spots on my GPS then as the day unfolds dissect each one as I go.If on tournament day somebody happens to be on one of them I just move on to the next one.I have taken the time to mark large bedding bass during practice,but unfortunately I'm not the only guy out there with good polarized glasses-lol!


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## JF1

LOTP I agree with everything you typed, except for no reason to have a fish in live well during practice. There are times I'll put a few that I've caught in practice in the well, run around with them all day just to see what they spit up. Then I can match forage, cray fish color, etc. I don't think anything of where I put them back in the lake though, and definitely don't plan on catching those guys again.


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## hopin to cash

For those new to the competition side of fishing this is now becoming an informative thread. I asked when ethical fishing crosses the line to cheating and I think we are touching the edges now. Maybe some of the rule guys will pipe in now, with there interpretation of our observations here. I have been to a few where the 500' rule was obviously broke but nothing mentioned. I have than been to a few others where protest were made because of the 500' rule. What are every ones thoughts on this?


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## lordofthepunks

JF1 said:


> LOTP I agree with everything you typed, except for no reason to have a fish in live well during practice. There are times I'll put a few that I've caught in practice in the well, run around with them all day just to see what they spit up. Then I can match forage, cray fish color, etc. I don't think anything of where I put them back in the lake though, and definitely don't plan on catching those guys again.


that's an interesting tactic... Ive never heard/thought of trying that... I usually look down the throats of those fish but I never thought to put them in the box....


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## lordofthepunks

hopin to cash said:


> For those new to the competition side of fishing this is now becoming an informative thread. I asked when ethical fishing crosses the line to cheating and I think we are touching the edges now. Maybe some of the rule guys will pipe in now, with there interpretation of our observations here. I have been to a few where the 500' rule was obviously broke but nothing mentioned. I have than been to a few others where protest were made because of the 500' rule. What are every ones thoughts on this?


im not sure what this 500' rule is... never heard of it...


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## hopin to cash

I know most tournament rules have some sort of clearance between boats that they ask anglers to observe. 500' may have been to much in my statement maybe it's more like 50'. So basically if a guy is fishing a bank he would not expect another boat to pull up within 50' or hopefully more in the direction they are headed down the bank. IMO you don't make many friends pulling up 100' down the bank in front of another angler but some lakes start to fish really small when you get 50-100 boats out there.


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## Salmonid

Lots of good info here so far, good thread, I know in many of the catfish tourneys I fish, the polygraph is becoming more and more popular since they only cost about $200 to have a trained person give one. 

Also we tend to see strangers come out of the woodwork and win with HUGE weights always garnering big questions as no one ever sees the people fishing, no one has ever seen them before and from the equipment and gear and boats they have its sometimes a questionable win, but if no one can prove it, what are you gonna do... I know 2 times this happened and no one ever saw those folks again.. hmmmmmm

We in lake tourneys, where folks are targeting channel cats, that often people will fish in baited holes, very often they know a house on the lake that feeds fish every day and they camp on it. 

Also with the durability of catfish, they are easier to catch and put in a basket or burlap sack and hide then most species...tending to make that easier to do. 

Many tourneys never check livewells but only a fool would bring fish already in a livewell just in case they did check. 

Lastly, Ive won big a few times and you just wouldn't believe the folks who have thought we cheated just because we don't live on the lake were fishing. Little do they know I been doing this for 11-12 years, maybe prefished the lake 2-3 times in the 2 weeks before the tourney and have over 250 tourneys under my belt and have fished all over the Midwest. I think many times folks are just jealous of anyone they don't know.

Lastly as already stated, if money on the line, folks will always find a way to bend the rules....sad but true. 

Salmonid


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## Harbor Hunter

In most TX's the rule about pulling up on somebody is if their anchor is deployed you have to stay 30 yards away from him,in most cases if someone has their power poles down that is considered anchored also.


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## lordofthepunks

hopin to cash said:


> I know most tournament rules have some sort of clearance between boats that they ask anglers to observe. 500' may have been to much in my statement maybe it's more like 50'. So basically if a guy is fishing a bank he would not expect another boat to pull up within 50' or hopefully more in the direction they are headed down the bank. IMO you don't make many friends pulling up 100' down the bank in front of another angler but some lakes start to fish really small when you get 50-100 boats out there.


ive never been in a tourney that employed this rule... like harbor hunter said, their is usually an anchor rule, most of the ones ive seen is 50 yards or 50 feet (cant remember) but only if they are anchored...

ethics wise... its not cool to jump in on someone elses stuff but what can you do... sometimes there isn't a lot of room to begin with... I usually don't take it too personally when someone does it to me... ill fish behind anyone, and not flinch, and vice versa, if you want to fish behind me, good luck...


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## sherman51

this has been a very good and informative thread. but not as interesting as the great white turtle thread, LOL.

all joking aside back when we held our little tournaments where I worked I did manage with my partner to win a few and always placed in the top 5. but every time we would win by the time we got back to work there was always a rumor that we had cheated. at first it really peaved me off. then I noticed it didn't matter who won there would be a story about how they cheated. so as long as nobody came up and said we seen you cheat or file a protest with the judges nobody really cared that there was people saying someone cheated. we held this tournament for about 15 yrs and during that time no one was charged with cheating or no one said they seen anyone cheat. but there was always the rumors going around that the winners had cheated.

I did get alittle [email protected] off a couple of times. the rules were the most weight won the tournament and you could weigh in 50 fish total per team. the 1st year we found a nice school of perch and cleaned up. so the very next yr you couldn't count perch. the rules said you had to belong to our union or be retired from the plant. one guy was married to a girl that worked there so they got to fish as a team.

so they changed the rules where one person had to work there or be retired and the other one could be a family member. that yr it was cold and raining and just nasty. my wife fished with me and we went out and fished. we got 2nd place, we lost by 4 ounces. so a lot of guys wouldn't fish in this weather and when they found out that my wife went out and fished they wanted the rules changed back to workers and retires only. they didn't like the idea that a woman would go out and fish when they wouldn't fish. so they changed the rules back. I didn't fish for a couple of yrs after that. then my son started working there and he asked me to fish with him, so I did. we only won one tournament but we always cheated after we started fishing together. but we just laughed about it.
sherman


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## Chubz

I lost alot of respect for bass fisherman a few yrs ago while fishing a walleye tournament on Indian lake. I was fishing a bank with lily pads sticking out about 8 ft from shore. As i was fishing the edge of the pads a bass boat come between me and shore right through the pads. I could of stepped out of my boat into his. I was completley shocked and speechless that someone could b that disrespectful then 20 mins later another boat did it and it turned into an instant verbal altercation that almost turned into a physical one. My partner quickly reminded me we proly had the winning bag in the boat and if it turned physical we would possibly b disqualified. I bit my tongue and went back to fishing. Good thing i did cuz we did end up winning. Im not beating up on all bass fisherman but theres alot of times iv been crowded on a bank or cut off during bass tournaments. There have been a few guys thats asked do u mind if we fish here with u, but not often enough. As far a cheating goes it happens in every curcuit that doesnt have a manditory polygraph test. Bending the rules is a common practice no matter where u go. I wish every curcuit raised the buy in just enough to cover a poly graph test at every event. Then it leaves no doubt in anyones mind in the end.


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## Bassbme

In most of the tournaments I fish, or have fished, one of the requirements of the anchor rule, is that the anchored boat must have their trolling motor up and out of the water to be considered truly anchored. I believe the distance is the 50' that was stated earlier, but IMO even that is too close. If you can cast to another persons anchored boat, or they can cast to yours, then you're too close. In reality, two full cast lengths would probably be a more appropriate distance to give an anchored boat, regardless of what the rule says.


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## Harbor Hunter

I can only answer from the TX's I fish,and the one circuit I'm a director.In nearly every case the anchored rule is if the anchor is down and the trolling motor is not in the water than that boat is considered anchored.Some of the TX's I fish the distance rule is 30 yards,and others it is 50 yards.I have no problem with either distance,most of the events I attend are on either Lake Erie or Lake St.Clair,there's plenty of structure everywhere so finding a different spot isn't too difficult.On inland lakes I can honestly say that I haven't come across another boat in the anchored position yet,I'm sure it does happen but I haven't come across it yet.The way we handle rules violations is by form of protest.If somebody wants to protest an action by another team,or possibly cheating they need to file a protest before the weigh-in.After the weigh-in we will pick out 5 anglers at random from the field and after they discuss the problem and reach a "verdict" the two directors will make the decision on the outcome,which could be anything from a DQ from that particular event,a ban for the rest of the season,a lifetime ban,or nothing at all depending on circumstances.Fortunately we haven't had any protests yet to date.We did have a protest occur at our classic earlier this year though(ironically it was due to the 30 yard rule),the panel of 5 plus the national directors handled the situation expertly and in the end no infractions were given and the two parties shook hands and that was the end of it.Directors can't be everywhere during a TX,if you're fishing in a TX and you see someone breaking the rules,or cheating you need to report it as quickly as you can.It's going to happen but it can be controlled.


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