# Looking for the minority viewpoint?



## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

As a 65 year old that has hunted primarily Ohios public lands for whitetails since I was 17 I have some strong opinions regarding our DOW and how it has managed the public land whitetail herds. Before the usual guys chime in with how they know people that do well on public and you just need to put in more effort and all the other tired comments from those that are happy with how things are because they hunt private land I want to hear from the true public land hunters that have witnessed the change over time. A little more about me...I am retired and put in tons of hours scouting year round. In recent years I primarily hunt three different public areas 100 miles from my home spread over Harrison and Belmont counties. I hunt one area of private land a little closer to me in Columbiana County. In the past I hunted the AEP lands and Salt Fork State Park, but moved away from them due to the drastic reduction of deer on these areas. I generally take a buck each year and often a doe as well. My wife son and nephew do pretty well also as I share the benefit of my time spent scouting and put them in active locations. So obviously there are deer to be had on public land and per my trail cameras some excellent buck. That is not my gripe. The issue I have is the over harvest that went on for years on the public lands and what it has changed regarding the quality of the hunts on public lands. I saw very few vehicles and hunters at all on opening day of gun season. Why? I know times have changed but the great kill on opening day shows there are still plenty of guys gun hunting. Just not on public lands. I read a post recently that said they camped and hunted Wayne National Forest for the opener. In an area where there were over 60 campers just a few years ago there were only 14. Few shots were heard. Fewer hunters seen. Most guys don't need numbers like in the hey day to have a quality hunt but don't keep hunting once numbers reach a certain point. Our public land deer herd was badly mismanaged in my opinion. Some don't want to admit it but most just don't care as the state overall is in pretty good shape as far as deer populations. Unless you primarily hunt public land all is well. To those that hunt primarily public land I am asking do you feel the states regulation of only one doe off public lands in recent years has helped or was it too little too late? Would you support a season or two of buck only off public lands? Are there any public land hunters that feel the herd where they hunt is in great shape and offers quality hunts? Its all about satisfaction to me. The DOW is aware of the decline in public land deer hunter satisfaction but has to balance that with loss of opportunity. Many hated the one doe only rule and the no doe after regular gun season rule. They caved to pressure and went back to doe in the late season and muzzy season. I feel this opens the door to excess doe kill as I know guys shoot does on public and call them in as private. Any public land hunters that been around a while care to comment?


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Sorry, but I’m not going to spend 10 minutes reading the same old rant in the form of one huge run on sentence. We get it, you think you know better than those in charge.


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## afeef745 (Feb 11, 2013)

I saw your comments in the other archery forum as well. If you feel this strongly about this issue then ask ODNR DOW and/or share your opinions and observations. That might get you some answers or help change some regulations on public land.


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## RossN (Mar 12, 2021)

I wouldn't hunt public land in Ohio 30 years ago.

I'm sure it's worse now.


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## eyecat (Sep 17, 2018)

M.Magis said:


> Sorry, but I’m not going to spend 10 minutes reading the same old rant in the form of one huge run on sentence. We get it, you think you know better than those in charge.


Why do you send a reply like this. He asked a legimate question. Move on


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Yup... i hunt strictly public for gun season... i have been here at deer camp since sunday... i have put in about 8 miles hiking,stalking and scouting this week and have yet to see or even jump up a deer all week. I am hunting Egypt Valley and MWCD areas. Yesterday evening I drove past a big white van with a trailer( You all know who I'm talking about, the van with five row seating and 12 guys with beards come out of it) I was suprised to see their trailer empty... although it did make me feel a little better because I haven't seen a deer all week on public. So to the OP, I feel your pain… It wasn't like this 12 to 15 years ago.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

eyecat said:


> Why do you send a reply like this. He asked a legimate question. Move on


B/C the format of the original post....combined with its length.....makes it hard to read.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

9Left said:


> Yup... i hunt strictly public for gun season... i have been here at deer camp since sunday... i have put in about 8 miles hiking,stalking and scouting this week and have yet to see or even jump up a deer all week. I am hunting Egypt Valley and MWCD areas. Yesterday evening I drove past a big white van with a trailer( You all know who I'm talking about, the van with five row seating and 12 guys with beards come out of it) I was suprised to see their trailer empty... although it did make me feel a little better because I haven't seen a deer all week on public. So to the OP, I feel your pain… It wasn't like this 12 to 15 years ago.


But it was worse 35-40 years ago....FWIW.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I don't have the years of personal experience, but camps I speak with share the same opinion as the OP. I have heard many times from locals that lived here all their lives how many more deer were around on the public lands years ago. They tell me it was common to see double digit deer every day if you sat all day during gun season..as many as 20-30 deer on occasion on an all day sit. Now 3-5 guys hunt all week and see a handful of deer total in some camps. I posted in another thread about stopping at back road camps in wildcat hollow....many camps were not there as nobody came this year. There was one group that saw a lot of deer, but they had 40 years of experience and were hiking a long piece after a ATV ride to get right up on some pretty prime private land where the owners feed the deer. Most everybody else did not see much. 

There are areas and blocks of public land that are contrary to that. There are both good numbers taken and great quality in some blocks. I personally know a guy who arrowed a 178 gross off one of the tracts this bow season. And I have a large piece of public bordering all private land that draws a lot of attention. It is a very large piece and has good hunting. I have no idea how many deer were taken this week, but there are a LOT of shots coming from back there and a LOT of trucks lined up at the entry point. During bow season it gets hunted hard by the east coast guys...a few guys from Vermont hunt it every day mid-Oct through gun season and rent a house nearby. Been doing it for several years and they have taken many deer back there. Awful lot of deer including some nice bucks taken on a large public tract about 12 mins north of me as well. I know 2 guys personally that hunted it a day and half that first week of November and they took a doe and two 3 yr old 8 pointers literally in two sits (yes very lucky year)!

I hunt some public land, but have access to plenty of private land so my opinion doesn't count for much. LOL But I'd certainly be willing to sit out a year (or two) and would be ok with buck only on public if that would benefit opportunity in the long run. I'd feel the same way for private land if the state determined the herd needed it (maybe make exception for youth hunters and allow antlerless for them). I don't see anything like that happening public or private, but this is just a discussion.

I often wonder what impact all the corn piles, apple piles, pellet spinning timed feeders, and fall/winter plots on surrounding private land play? Not making any debate or conflict on the matter, but everybody around the public land baits and feeds deer practically year round. I know for a fact it concentrates the deer as I cruise around and I can take you to places that border public that I guarantee regardless of weather we will see deer. They will be laying in the owners yard and scattered across his lawn and pasture every night. I know deer travel, but imo that plays a part in things too. Again not making judgement on it, but it is a reality down here. We have a very wealthy large land owner here that employs two local guys just to keep his feed up....spends 30-50k yearly on feed, plots, etc. I'm told. His little mecca of 600 acres is loaded with the deer year round....he borders some of the Wayne and hunting on that side of the fence is not so good due to over pressure on that border and the safe environment he created. It certainly has an impact that I see. None of my business how he spends his money (and he has all the money in the world and owns a well known business most would recognize). Not saying that is the sole reason but a small piece of the pie.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

If too many does are indeed being harvested on public land, it would only take 2-4 years of reduced doe harvest to "fix" the problem......IMHO.

My other two cents is that the State manages the total population of deer in all of Ohio. There obviously isn't a private land set of regulations vs a public land set of regulations.....for the most part.

Having said that, how could you now limit the number of does harvested on private land that is currently at or beyond deer capacity?

Not an easy answer........


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

M.Magis said:


> Sorry, but I’m not going to spend 10 minutes reading the same old rant in the form of one huge run on sentence. We get it, you think you know better than those in charge.


No one asked you to read my post! Please feel free to ignore. If you feel the need to be critical at least be accurate. I was long winded and perhaps had several run on sentences but not as you say "one huge run on sentence". 

Not sure who the 'WE" is you reference. Do you speak for all the people that access this site? NO you do not. You have an opinion and are entitled to share it but just like mine it is only one persons opinion. You can speak only for you. I asked for input from others that have hunted primarily public land over time. Have you? I think not. This is not face book or twitter and at least up till now people like you cannot cancel others just because they do not share their opinions.

I never said I know better than those in charge. They admitted change was needed by changing the doe take regulations as a result of declining hunter satisfaction based upon hunter surveys. I asked did the change help or is more needed. 

You are correct in only one thing... this has been brought up in the past many times. Why? Because its an issue for public land hunters. Not talked about nearly so much on the message boards in the past few years. I have a few thoughts as to why not...First usage of these boards has dropped big time, seems facebook has taken over. Many public land hunters have stopped complaining and voted with their feet, hence the lack of hunters I noted in my first post. Some were encouraged by the states willingness to address the issue with the changes in public land doe tags. Bottom line... I am curious regarding other hunters constructive input and thoughts.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

afeef745 said:


> I saw your comments in the other archery forum as well. If you feel this strongly about this issue then ask ODNR DOW and/or share your opinions and observations. That might get you some answers or help change some regulations on public land.


Thank you for the good input. You are correct. Fact is over the years I was one of the most vocal on message boards pushing for change. I was told by some connected to the DOW that my voice along with others on these boards resulted in the new regulations being enacted several years back. I answer surveys, I talk to officials at expos etc. They know the issues they just are between a rock and a hard place to address it. Whatever they do they will piss off hunters. No one wants more limits to hunting but that's what it will take now because they acted way too late. Again just one hunters opinion for what its worth.


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## colonel594 (Aug 31, 2012)

From my hunting on public land my assessment and observations are a bit different than yours..... Your referring to as "public land herd" as if the deer can't and don't leave...... Have you ever scouted these spots in August? What did you find? From my experience the issue isn't with the herd or herd management it's with pressure and land management. The deer are there, they just arnt there when you want them to be. 

Just because you didn't see them or get a picture doesn't mean they arnt there. It just means they are smarter than you are. 

Another thing you should probably consider is that public land isn't the only place people aren't having success killing a deer. I know tons of guys who are have the EXACT same struggles seeing deer on private land..... For the EXACT same reasons... And have been for years in places that otherwise should be a sure thing. 

when you keep doing the same thing and it's not working its time to start over and adopt new tactics.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Thanks for the input. I agree with some of your points. However... when you are in the middle of 5,000 acres of public land and find little sign it is not due to a temporary shift in where the deer are hanging out at. This is the case on smaller areas. I have watched deer move off public land at first light to get away from heavy pressure and on to private many times. I have numerous areas that for years had rubs and scrapes all over them. Maybe I would see the deer maybe


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Maybe not. When there are no scrape nor rubs its not a case of deer moving off due to pressure. Its a case of no deer living there.


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## colonel594 (Aug 31, 2012)

And when you are hunting 5,000 acres you couldn't even begin to scout 5% of that land.... They are there... they just arnt where you want them to be, when you want them to be there. Period end of story. 

You can beat a dead horse or you can try new tactics, that's up to you. Good luck


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

colonel594 said:


> And when you are hunting 5,000 acres you couldn't even begin to scout 5% of that land.... They are there... they just arnt where you want them to be, when you want them to be there. Period end of story.
> 
> You can beat a dead horse or you can try new tactics, that's up to you. Good luck


Not end of story at all in my opinion. Not beating a dead horse but not backing off my opinion that the deer herd is over harvested on public land. The state knows it as do hunters that have hunted the same areas for 25 years. The deer didn't all of a sudden get smarter nor did the hunters get dumber. What changed was added opportunity with bonus gun and allowing hunting during gun to go the extra half hour after sunset. Better weapons with cross bows and inlines and now straight walled cartridges. And the main factor, cheap plentiful doe tags for years on end. I don't need new tactics, I do pretty well on public land but it could be and was oh so much better. Just sad to see is all. Period end of story!


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## FlyFishRich (Feb 3, 2016)

I've hunted public land in Wayne, Holmes, Trumbull Counties for over 30 years and I've seen a big decline in deer population. I feel with all the doe tags and how many you can harvest in each zone had something to do to the decline. Hell at one time you could harvest up to 7 deer. I believe that the population will grow again but will take a few years,.......Rich


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Went to Salt Fork Monday, 15 vehicles, some shooting, saw one deer dragged out, I saw nothing. Years past opening day gun season every other car was a hunter, now you have to look hard for the orange. So deer movement is not as much if there are no hunters in the woods. Only saw a couple of road kills driving down 77. 
But I agree the herd is not as big as before, maybe good in some areas but not on AEP lands. You can't keep killing does and expect to have deer.
Remember the 70's, first day shoot anything, rest of week buck only. That was solution to try to build herds and that is what is needed now. Bow kill back then about 20% of total, now over 50% and guys shoot anything to get meat in the freezer.
When you can't even see a tail running away you know its bad.
Agree with Uncle Mike


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## snagless-1 (Oct 26, 2014)

I remember one camp in Ohio power lands in the early 80's opening day 63 deer hanging.If there are less people pushing after opening day the deer turn into rabbits.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

1976 west of Cumberland, where 'The Wilds' is now, buddy scoped 60 deer crossing field opening day. The shooting was non stop back then, could not get 5 minutes of quiet. This past opener you waited half hour to hear shot in distance. How ODNR has failed.


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## thistubesforu (Mar 30, 2009)

I don’t want to be long winded here so I’ll just get to the point hopefully. I hunt exclusively public land besides the 4 acres of woods behind my house that I own. Northwest Ohio mainly but do take a trip for a week to southern ohio burr oak area every year Nov 1 to Nov 18 or so and have since 2006. Like I said only one week but the dates have fluctuated over the years but always somewhere in this timeframe. The area has been discussed already wolf creek general vicinity near the primitive camp is the main stomping grounds of our group. I will say there is more hunters now than when I first started hunting this area. That being said we have branched further away from the people when necessary quite frankly because I don’t really like seeing other hunters when there’s 10s of thousands of acres down there to stomp around and explore. Most of them out of state not mad at em shoot whatever they see not mad at em don’t necessarily blame em either lot of money spent to go home empty handed follow me around and crowd my spot mad at em ha!! Bottom line to me is public land in ohio only accounts for 5% of the total land in the state!! So regulating just state land thinking it’s going to affect the entire state and bring a deer herd back to levels some folks feel it should be by letting folks only shoot one doe is totally stupid. If Its one doe public make it one doe private if they really want anything to happen. There’s my opinion on the subject now for some personal data. Since 2006 I’ve kept a hunting log that over time has become more intense logging deer seen weather moon phase day rating etc. I won’t bore everyone with all technical stuff I’m just going to give the numbers from the one week trip taken every year since 2006. Starting in 2013 I’ll have camp totals and avg deer per hunter based off amount of people and total deer seen not the actual individual amount for each person except for myself that will be listed first.
2006-16 deer seen
2007-23 deer seen
2008-14 deer seen
2009-8 deer seen
2010-18 deer seen
2011-7 deer seen
2012-20 deer seen
2013-12 deer seen 4 guys at camp 65 deer 16.25/hunter
2014-22 deer seen 6 guys at camp 79 deer 13.16/hunter
2015-7 deer seen 5 guys at camp 49 deer 9.8/hunter
2016-13 deer seen 6 at camp 88 deer 14.66/hunter
2017-26 deer seen 5 at camp 59 deer 11.8/hunter
2018-12 deer seen 6 at camp 38 deer 6.33/hunter
2019-39 deer seen 5 at camp 113 deer 22.6/hunter
2020-15 deer seen 4 at camp 61 deer 15.25/hunter
2021-7 deer seen 4 at camp 22 deer
5.5/hunter

take this info for what’s it’s worth to you but what I see when I look at it is some years are just more productive than others as far as seeing deer but nothing really sticks out to me as showing a major decline other than this year being bad but one year doesn’t make a trend. Again this is just one mans data not a whole states worth. Biggest advice I would have for any public land hunter is try to avoid other hunters/hunting pressure no matter how far or close you have to venture. No matter how stupid you or your buddies think a spot looks or is too close to the road too far from the road etc no people no pressure=seeing deer. Last of all of if its a numbers game only to people go hunt Michigan Pennsylvania or West Virginia. If it’s a big buck game to ya stay put Ohio has em that’s why all these knuckleheads from other states come here again I ain’t mad at em shoot em up!!


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

colonel594 said:


> From my hunting on public land my assessment and observations are a bit different than yours..... Your referring to as "public land herd" as if the deer can't and don't leave...... Have you ever scouted these spots in August? What did you find? From my experience the issue isn't with the herd or herd management it's with pressure and land management. The deer are there, they just arnt there when you want them to be.
> 
> Just because you didn't see them or get a picture doesn't mean they arnt there. It just means they are smarter than you are.
> 
> ...


X2


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

Pressure is effecting the number of deer seen. I know guys that consistently get it done on public every year on mature bucks. The deer heard for the majority of the state is down. That is part of the reason you are only allowed one doe on public land now. Secondly it's not the DNRs fault that folks feel the need the fill every tag available. 

The best management program is policing ourselves and not taking more than what we need to eat for the year. Just because the state says you can shoot 6 does a year or whatever it is does not mean you have to shoot them all.


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## One guy and a boat (Aug 8, 2018)

thistubesforu said:


> Bottom line to me is public land in ohio only accounts for 5% of the total land in the state!! So regulating just state land thinking it’s going to affect the entire state and bring a deer herd back to levels some folks feel it should be by letting folks only shoot one doe is totally stupid.


X 1000. As Ron Y stated, back to 70 & 80's and doe's only the first day or two. Would only take a year or two to make a difference. 

Kip


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

I vote 1 doe state wide and no more baiting. If your caught baiting deer make it a 2 year license suspension.


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## sboo (Nov 6, 2021)

DHower08 said:


> I vote 1 doe state wide and no more baiting. If your caught baiting deer make it a 2 year license suspension.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Yes any doe rule would be for private and public lands. It seems certain areas have good populations. Can it be that the lack of farms in SE ohio has led to lower numbers and as said earlier NW ohio seems to have a lot of deer and NW ohio has alot of farms. This is first year I went to southern ohio in about 15 years as this deer shortage started before that and has not gotten better. Certain areas seem to have gotten better and other not. But the best place to hunt is in the cities. About 4 years ago Mentor, Ohio culled 160 deer in their parks using police sharpshooters and donated the meat to food shelters.


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## bowhunter1487 (Aug 13, 2014)

A lot of public in Ohio needs timbered badly. Too open to hold deer. 90% of the terrain on WNF and AEP is useless.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

I was very hesitant to comment on this thread, as I have seen to many like it that turn into peeing matches over personal opinions. I tend to believe the deer herd is quite stable as a whole. ODW has a big task on their hands. Farmers and Insurance companies want the deer herd highly controlled ( they have powerful lobbyist like the Farm Bureau ). Deer do a lot of damage and are costly for both. So, it's a balancing act for all Ohio residents, not just hunters. Now the ODW does cater to hunters more, but their mandate is to manage resources for all Ohio's residents. I believe the deer are there. As a landowner and small farmer, I see them all year and then presto they disappear come November. They turn nocturnal and have their hiding holes. I have watched them sneak away from hunters. I also agree, our herd is manged for optimum quality not quantity. I do not even hunt deer, but I do suffer the damage from them. Even with that I want a good herd and hope everyone has quality hunting. I only have one question, "what should the state's priority be, managing so everyone possible can fill a tag or the sustaining of a quality healthy herd, at reasonable levels?"

Another big factor in my area is disease. In the last 5 years we have had two outbreaks of E.H.D. and Blue tongue and they knocked the crap out of our herd. On my land and my family land we accounted for over a dozen dead deer summer of 2019.


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## TODD64 (May 7, 2015)

Went to Egypt Valley opening day and it was very quiet all day. 20 plus years ago the deer herd was very strong down there ,Maybe to many. If I remember right around 2008 when the numbers started to fall off for a variety of reasons. This was the first year I hunted in many years down there. I will say what concerns me about Egypt Valley is the hardwoods being stripped away in areas we had success on. Alot of the land down there has become over grown with scrub brush and makes thing tough on hunters as well. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

Don't forget the undergrowth and scrub brush is what deer thrive living in. Old growth timber is only good for producing a good acorn crop once every couple years. The deer need the areas with low and new browse for them to truly live not just survive. The place we hunt was heavily choice cut a few years back. The woods are so thick now you almost can't get through them. 

The deer are there they just have no need to come out. Same as alot of the public lands. Yes the numbers are down yes we need to kill less deer as a whole. But the population is still at a healthy level. Just down a little bit. Now don't even get me started on the lack of turkeys.


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## threeten (Feb 5, 2014)

Where I hunt in Noble co. The hunter numbers are way down. Used to be every pull off or parking area was packed. Now you hardly ever see a vehicle. Nobody moving deer anymore. Still see deer but not like the ‘80s. See more quality bucks. Been hunting the same areas since the late ‘70s that’s a mix of public/ private lands. The spots our group hunts did not see another hunter this year that isn’t from our group. The last ten years we’ve had issues with a lease next to a public spot that takes dogs in there frequently to push the deer off through November pretending to hunt something else. 
Deer numbers were up this year and believe it is the change in regulations on doe harvests after gun week as these spots got pounded during muzzle season.


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

bowhunter1487 said:


> A lot of public in Ohio needs timbered badly. Too open to hold deer. 90% of the terrain on WNF and AEP is useless.


 Agree 100%. Open hardwoods provides no shelter at all. They need some cover/clear cut areas that are so thick that you can’t hunt it or get the deer out of it. Other wildlife need more clear cutting too


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

Do you all think that part of the less gun hunters is becasue more are harvesting their deer with archery equipment before gun season? With these new crossbows they are as good as many shotguns


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## fireline (Jun 14, 2007)

Here’s a interesting fact I saw the other day in the “Ohio Wilds” magazine I receive several times a year


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## threeten (Feb 5, 2014)

Absolutely more guys take a week in early November to bow hunt many filled tags to gun hunt but still not seeing the guys bow hunting around the areas either. 
Back in the heyday SE Ohio was everyone’s destination but as the deer population shifted -so have the hunters


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

berkshirepresident said:


> If too many does are indeed being harvested on public land, it would only take 2-4 years of reduced doe harvest to “fix” the problem.


The problem is the state didn’t give it enough time to see the results. Like said already they caved to the pressure. So basically the state did it all for nothing.


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

I hunt public land exclusively. Deer sightings are actually pretty high. I hunted from my climber on 3 separate hunts during gun week. On 2 of the 3 sits, I saw a total of 12 deer, 11 of which were does with one small, injured yearling buck. On the 3rd sit, I didn't see anything. I hunt East Fork primarily and that place just gets pounded with hunters, hikers, trail runners, bikers, horseback riders, dog walkers...you name it. I was lucky enough to take a nice doe during one of the sits. As I was packing out the doe, I saw four other hunters and 2 hikers within 50 yards of me. Mind you, I'm over a mile from the nearest parking lot. My conclusion is there are deer on these public lands, there's plenty of habitat to support them, but the pressure is immense. Getting back into the woods early morning, and setting up in a tree with a vantage point where the deer will get pushed will get you into deer. I would not support buck-only on public land on a state-wide approach nor any further restrictions. I'd like to see the deer herd managed more locally, with regular deer studies so the DNR can better manage it. Let them make rules for each specific area if need be, but no more one-size-fits-all regulations. I think the current regulations and limitations on public land kill is prejudicial to public-only hunters while not applying the same rules to private hunters. It's not scientific and assumes the herds are non-expansive, meaning deer populations are highly localized which is not true. If you want more deer numbers, then the rules need to apply to everyone, both public and private.

On my bow hunts, I saw deer on most occasions, and I still see plenty of deer while squirrel hunting. I also see deer sign everywhere. This is true at East Fork, Stonelick, Della Gates and Oldaker.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Where is east fork, stone lick, della gates, and oldaker? Must be southwest ohio ??? Never heard of these places.


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## Morrowtucky Mike (May 2, 2018)

Ron Y said:


> Where is east fork, stone lick, della gates, and oldaker? Must be southwest ohio ??? Never heard of these places.


Google it


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Thanks for nothing


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

According to everything I have read does are very territorial. They generally remain close to where they are born and don't travel great distances. Bucks on the other hand travel during the rut but still most often return to core areas. As a result when large numbers of doe are harvested from the same areas over time the population of that particular area is diminished. This is why one property can be darn near overrun with deer while a few miles away another is almost devoid of deer. Although the deer don't know private from public the continued high kill of the proportion of does on public lands makes a heck of a difference. It amazes me how many hunters try and deny this fact. Private land by the fact that it is private allows for the ability to control the doe harvest via limited access. Public on the other hand can only be controlled by limiting the ability of all to harvest does. Anyway good input from all, enjoyed hearing your thoughts. Best we can hope is that the fact that guys are giving up gun hunting on public land will allow for the herd to bounce back over time.


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## fireline (Jun 14, 2007)

__





East Fork State Park


One of Ohio's largest state parks, East Fork offers boating, hiking, camping, fishing, and other outdoor activities in southwest Ohio.




ohiodnr.gov


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

fireline said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

It's true that doe populations can be local as Unclemike notes, but that is a general rule only. I'm not denying that. But when you make regulations for public-only, you aren't considering the impact non-public deer can have on the public land. Habitat can only support an X amount of deer. It's called habitat capacity. Once the habitat reaches full capacity, does and bucks will move to other areas, like public land. So that's what I mean by making the regulations apply to both public and private. In my experience, the reason I see less deer on public is not because they aren't there, it's the fact that these deer are dang good at detecting and avoiding human pressure. They are a different animal than private land deer. Go squirrel hunting or just scouting, especially after a snowfall. I'd be very surprised you don't see a healthy amount of deer sign. If it's completely void of deer sign, then it's a good time to call your local DNR resource officer and let him or her know. Advocate for localized management, not a state-wide approach that negatively affects folks like me who aren't having issues finding and seeing deer.


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

Not a minority(sounds kinda racist..... hee hee ) ..... but the weather for processing has been good timing for my 2 kills and a week of aging (Monday mid 40's and Thursday/ Friday) pleasurable...... the rest way to much text for my liking


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

I agree with some of what you say but I used to hunt Noble county in the 90's and stopped about 12 years ago cause we saw no deer in the public areas we hunted south of Cumberland. Even a loader operator at the mine told me about 2002 how he used to see herds of 5-20 on the wooded edge of the mine but as of 02 he was lucky to see 3-8. The deer either move out of some areas by pressure or loss of food. But it sure seems the same thing is happening in other areas of southeast Ohio.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

ironman172 said:


> Not a minority(sounds kinda racist..... hee hee ) ..... but the weather for processing has been good timing for my 2 kills and a week of aging (Monday mid 40's and Thursday/ Friday) pleasurable...... the rest way to much text for my liking


Funny that no one else commented on my post heading. When I wrote the original post I intended to reference right away that it is a fact that public land hunters are in the minority. After I posted I realized I never made the statement. I wonder how many were confused when they read it.


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## Bob Owens (Mar 27, 2016)

UNCLEMIKE said:


> As a 65 year old that has hunted primarily Ohios public lands for whitetails since I was 17 I have some strong opinions regarding our DOW and how it has managed the public land whitetail herds. Before the usual guys chime in with how they know people that do well on public and you just need to put in more effort and all the other tired comments from those that are happy with how things are because they hunt private land I want to hear from the true public land hunters that have witnessed the change over time. A little more about me...I am retired and put in tons of hours scouting year round. In recent years I primarily hunt three different public areas 100 miles from my home spread over Harrison and Belmont counties. I hunt one area of private land a little closer to me in Columbiana County. In the past I hunted the AEP lands and Salt Fork State Park, but moved away from them due to the drastic reduction of deer on these areas. I generally take a buck each year and often a doe as well. My wife son and nephew do pretty well also as I share the benefit of my time spent scouting and put them in active locations. So obviously there are deer to be had on public land and per my trail cameras some excellent buck. That is not my gripe. The issue I have is the over harvest that went on for years on the public lands and what it has changed regarding the quality of the hunts on public lands. I saw very few vehicles and hunters at all on opening day of gun season. Why? I know times have changed but the great kill on opening day shows there are still plenty of guys gun hunting. Just not on public lands. I read a post recently that said they camped and hunted Wayne National Forest for the opener. In an area where there were over 60 campers just a few years ago there were only 14. Few shots were heard. Fewer hunters seen. Most guys don't need numbers like in the hey day to have a quality hunt but don't keep hunting once numbers reach a certain point. Our public land deer herd was badly mismanaged in my opinion. Some don't want to admit it but most just don't care as the state overall is in pretty good shape as far as deer populations. Unless you primarily hunt public land all is well. To those that hunt primarily public land I am asking do you feel the states regulation of only one doe off public lands in recent years has helped or was it too little too late? Would you support a season or two of buck only off public lands? Are there any public land hunters that feel the herd where they hunt is in great shape and offers quality hunts? Its all about satisfaction to me. The DOW is aware of the decline in public land deer hunter satisfaction but has to balance that with loss of opportunity. Many hated the one doe only rule and the no doe after regular gun season rule. They caved to pressure and went back to doe in the late season and muzzy season. I feel this opens the door to excess doe kill as I know guys shoot does on public and call them in as private. Any public land hunters that been around a while care to comment?


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## Bob Owens (Mar 27, 2016)

I agree 100%. I have hunted Wayne National in Perry County since 1980 and see only a small fraction of the deer I used to see. My wife and several friends all have experienced the same. we go down for 9 days during the rut every year and my brother ,son and myself go down the first 3 days of gun season every year. My wife and I used to see a minimum of 10 deer between us per day and the past two years combined have seen a total of 31 deer in 18 days of hunting the rut. i havn't seen a deer the last 2 Gun seasons. where I used to see at least 10 a day. I think they ought to make it buck's only for a couple of years on Public land.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

Yes, to little to late. I, am 74 been hunting public land since 1972. There was a time , there was no Sunday hunting. Now we have Sunday hunting. There was a time, bucks only, one deer limit. Doe, by permit only. All this was state wide. Privet and public land. I, talk to other people in other states, every one sings the same song, no deer. Maybe we should look at this. It has been said, the advrage age for a deer hunter is 35-40. You do not see the number of cars parked along the road any more You do not see the hunters out any more. There are more deer seen in the citys and the burbs, now. Yes, there are a few exceptions. One thing we did not have years ago, was the coyote. I, have always said, follow the money. The state wants to sell liscense. What amases me is, every year, every one says, thay did not see ant or very few deer, but every year the stats say, there was a recored deer kill. My 2 cents.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

one3 said:


> Yes, to little to late. I, am 74 been hunting public land since 1972. There was a time , there was no Sunday hunting. Now we have Sunday hunting. There was a time, bucks only, one deer limit. Doe, by permit only. All this was state wide. Privet and public land. I, talk to other people in other states, every one sings the same song, no deer. Maybe we should look at this. It has been said, the advrage age for a deer hunter is 35-40. You do not see the number of cars parked along the road any more You do not see the hunters out any more. There are more deer seen in the citys and the burbs, now. Yes, there are a few exceptions. One thing we did not have years ago, was the coyote. I, have always said, follow the money. The state wants to sell liscense. What amases me is, every year, every one says, thay did not see ant or very few deer, but every year the stats say, there was a recored deer kill. My 2 cents.


I think the numbers of hunters are still there… They're just hunting private or hunting leased land... not public. One thing I should've pointed out in my earlier post about public land was that I would hunt until the end of legal shooting time… On the drive back in the dark I saw at least a dozen deer jumping across the roads… I don't know, there's a lot to be said about more hunters on public and pushing the deer around and getting them moving...I think it was said earlier that Ohio is only around 5% public lands… And It was also said earlier that the total harvest for ohio deer on public is about 6%… So that seems pretty logical I guess… But there are definitely less numbers of hunters on public land and I think that contributes a lot to not seeing deer


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## Watership Down (Jul 31, 2019)

M.Magis said:


> Sorry, but I’m not going to spend 10 minutes reading the same old rant in the form of one huge run on sentence. We get it, you think you know better than those in charge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

I have believed for years ODNR has been lying on their numbers. Back in about 03 we hunted near Caldwell a county with a kill total of 2500 or so. On the second day I shot a doe (only third deer out of 12 guys) and late that day went to one of three check stations in county and they had only checked 130 deer on first day and were at 48 deer at 6 pm when I was there. three check stations in county and this was busiest, how did they kill 2500 deer. I called around couple other check stations and they had low numbers. You could call in by phone to check that year and some say that's where most check in's happened. But I did not see many deer being dragged out or in vehicles. 
Maybe I am wrong but I question the count. 70's and 80's it was war zone down there, non stop shooting, now you would not know its deer season at times during opening day.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

Well Ron Y I ran a check station for almost 30 years and I knew the numbers for the other two check stations in my county, as the game warden collected them all and they were often counted in my office. When the state wide numbers came in our county was always spot on for what I knew. Now if they were lying I am a liar and I assure you I am not lying, but believe what you think is right.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

I, agree with Ron Y. I, have always questioned the count. How can people say, the number of hunters has not dropped. You can hear a gun shot from a long way off. You would be lucky to hear a dozen shoots, all day.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

I believe you did things correctly but did your numbers and the other add up to the totals the state printed ? I just know when first day totals were in the paper and I had called some check stations the number did not add up.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Of course the number of hunters has dropped. Who says it hasn't?


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

Ron Y said:


> I believe you did things correctly but did your numbers and the other add up to the totals the state printed ? I just know when first day totals were in the paper and I had called some check stations the number did not add up.


Well said, how true. Been saying that for years. Why don't people want to belive the numbers are padded. Why don't people want to belive there are not as many hunters as there was before. Are you that nieve you belive what the govt. tells you.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

bobk said:


> Of course the number of hunters has dropped. Who says it hasn't?


Who says it hasn't. the state. Look at the numbers that is put out by the state.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

one3 said:


> Who says it hasn't. the state. Look at the numbers that is put out by the state.





https://ohiodnr.gov/static/documents/wildlife/historic-licenses/Pub+5063.pdf



I am looking at them.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

Everyone is free to believe what they want. I doubt anything posted in this thread will change any minds. I think it has started down that slippery slope that so many threads go and may well be locked soon. All I can tell you is what I know as fact and that is I do not believe the numbers are padded or false and I have good reason to know that. I also believe there are less hunters and in many areas less deer. Those are all just my beliefs and opinions and I am content in knowing not everyone believes I am right or even honest in saying that. So have at it, I will not participate any further.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

C'mon now guys.....there is NO reason to believe that the State pads the deer check in numbers.
You're not going to win public support for decreasing the numbers of does to be harvested on public land if you start this conspiracy nonsense.....unless you have actual evidence.
FWIW, the biggest hurdle you'll be up against when trying to decrease the number of does taken on public land is that the herds in urban areas are growing out of control. (Maybe have the State relocate some urban deer to state land?)
And while we have county by county numbers, the State still manages the deer herd at either the State Level or at the five District Levels.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

The pubic has no way of knowing if the numbers are correct. Just like seeing the lists of the draw for special hunts. I asked odnr people years ago how they count the deer and they said they fly over and get counts and then multiply the number by the acres and arrive at totals. Whether they still do that I do not know, but just because they see a group in one spot may not reflect the whole area. 
But the total 20 years ago was 130,000 killed and now the total is like 165,000. So either more deer are taken or they are lying. Fact is the numbers are down in some areas and up in others and some people feel the pain and other share the increase.


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)

bobk said:


> https://ohiodnr.gov/static/documents/wildlife/historic-licenses/Pub+5063.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I am looking at them.


Come on Bob, don’t confuse him with facts and statistics. 👌


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

So you really believe all government numbers both state and federal ???


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

MagicMarker said:


> Come on Bob, don’t confuse him with facts and statistics. 👌


Just trying to add some real data to the conversation.


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

I'm okay with specific regulations on specific lands, but leave it at that. None of this state-wide approach to a localized problem. Make the regulations equally apply to both public and private. The deer are still there whether you see them or not is my point, so let the ODNR deer biologists do their job and make the call. My biggest concern is making sure the habitat is left intact. Populations will rise and fall as they will.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

berkshirepresident said:


> C'mon now guys.....there is NO reason to believe that the State pads the deer check in numbers.
> You're not going to win public support for decreasing the numbers of does to be harvested on public land if you start this conspiracy nonsense.....unless you have actual evidence.
> FWIW, the biggest hurdle you'll be up against when trying to decrease the number of does taken on public land is that the herds in urban areas are growing out of control. (Maybe have the State relocate some urban deer to state land?)
> And while we have county by county numbers, the State still manages the deer herd at either the State Level or at the five District Levels.


Do you really belive any thing a govt. office tells you.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

one3 said:


> Do you really belive any thing a govt. office tells you.


Its ODNR not the gestapo. Not everything is a conspiracy guy…


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

one3 said:


> Do you really belive any thing a govt. office tells you.


Out of DC? Not often.
But I believe the numbers from the check in stations and what the ODNR tells us from Columbus or Portage Lakes/District Three.
Now, I don't believe Amish Fish Counting.....but that's a different topic.


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## The Rev (Oct 27, 2021)

The deer are there and there's plenty of them. The problem is, the deer live there every hour of every day and they know the normal sounds and the normal smells of their land. Opening day of gun season and or the night before all the deer hear is all these doors slamming, all these vehicles running(trucks and ATVs), all these voices. All they smell is all the vehicle exhaust all these humans all these foods and snacks. The deer aren't that bright but they are aware that something is totally different and amiss with all these uncommon sounds and smells. So they bed down in the nastiest or swampiest areas where most folks won't go and they only move in the dark. This happens every year on public land and also on private land. It's simple if you want to see more deer don't park vehicles at least a mile away from where you are going to hunt. Be scent free when you hunt and that means yourself, your clothes, your boots, your equipment and leave your snacks and food at the cabin or motel. Keep your mouth shut; don't talk to anyone and walk quietly and slowly. If you're too lazy or bullheaded to do the foregoing then enjoy your week of seeing no deer.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Yes I agree BUT when you go to area you know and there are no tracks, poop, rubs etc, there are no deer or very few and you can really tell a lot about an area after a fresh snow.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

We can debate this untill the cows come home. Every one has there idea. As for me, I do not belive, what the DOW says. It is a Govt. agency. All Govt. agencys play politics. They have to if some one wants to keep there job. That is how things work.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

🤦🏻‍♂️


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

They are a government agency, and they do play politics. They have been pressured by multiple entities to lower the herd numbers from previous highs. The ODNR has not hid this from anyone. The ODNR has made multiple public statements about their intent to balance(reduce) the herd for social, economic, and biological reasons. If the farm bureau and insurance companies had their way we would have quite a few less deer than we have now. I also think that the public pressure to limit timber harvest on public lands has reduced the population density on some our public properties.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

one3 said:


> We can debate this untill the cows come home. Every one has there idea. As for me, I do not belive, what the DOW says. It is a Govt. agency. All Govt. agencys play politics. They have to if some one wants to keep there job. That is how things work.


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## 0utwest (Mar 21, 2017)

All i can add to this is what i tell some of the kids i take , There are Deer Hunters and then there are Deer Getters which do you want to be ?


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)

0utwest said:


> All i can add to this is what i tell some of the kids i take , There are Deer Hunters and then there are Deer Getters which do you want to be ?


We call them deer hunters or deer killers 👌


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

The Rev said:


> The deer are there and there's plenty of them. The problem is, the deer live there every hour of every day and they know the normal sounds and the normal smells of their land. Opening day of gun season and or the night before all the deer hear is all these doors slamming, all these vehicles running(trucks and ATVs), all these voices. All they smell is all the vehicle exhaust all these humans all these foods and snacks. The deer aren't that bright but they are aware that something is totally different and amiss with all these uncommon sounds and smells. So they bed down in the nastiest or swampiest areas where most folks won't go and they only move in the dark. This happens every year on public land and also on private land. It's simple if you want to see more deer don't park vehicles at least a mile away from where you are going to hunt. Be scent free when you hunt and that means yourself, your clothes, your boots, your equipment and leave your snacks and food at the cabin or motel. Keep your mouth shut; don't talk to anyone and walk quietly and slowly. If you're too lazy or bullheaded to do the foregoing then enjoy your week of seeing no deer.


This right here. The deer are there. They are card-carrying hunter detectors. They know you're there, they know where you've been and where you came from. Every piece of public I've been in Ohio, all over the state, there is a plethora of deer sign, even on the WMAs that manage for other species than deer. If there is zero deer sign (which I'm not saying doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it yet), the DNR resource officer needs to know so they can investigate and determine if specific regs are needed. 

I can hear people talk, walk, open and shut doors, using antlers and doe bleats from a quarter of a mile away while in my tree stand. There are no leaves on the trees during gun week, and sound travels extremely far. The doe I shot was pushed from other hunters who were up wind from her, meaning she was getting a good whiff of them, and who didn't show up until 40 minutes after I shot her. She was one of 8 does that moved to my spot. That means, she and the 7 other does had a 40 minute jump on those hunters. Those guys had no clue they were pushing 8 does when I told them. They said they hadn't seen anything all day. This corresponds to a time I was squirrel hunting with a buddy of mine several years ago in late January. After having no luck, I finally had enough and just straight-lined bushed hogged it about a half mile to the truck where my friend was waiting. He said I pushed about 15 deer into a field adjacent to the truck. He never seen so many deer at one time. I had no clue I did that. I hadn't seen a deer or squirrel all morning, and I covered a lot of ground. The woods were as dead as could be that morning, yet there was a herd of deer standing within 30 yard of the truck that I pushed.


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