# Fly selection for the LMR and GMR



## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Yeah it's saugfish season. What am I doing talking about flyfishing? Well with the short days and cold I can only saugfish once or twice a week. Enough to help scratch the fishing itch but not enough to suit me. But I can tie flies (and hair jigs) and get ready for spring. I tell you what I do. I hit the Orvis store at the Dayton Mall and try to reverse engineer some of their flies. To me they have the best smallie fly selection around and some weirdly cool flies you just can't find anywhere else. Like for example my favorite crayfish fly, May's Clearwater Crayfish.










I love this fly. It has everything I'm looking for in a crayfish fly. Good color. It sinks like a rock. Rubber legs for movement. And only the suggestion of claws. Study after study shows smallmouth prefer crayfish with little claws, or no claws for that matter. This guy is pretty close to the perfect crayfish fly in my book. I fish it on a short line, usually across and down in riffles and runs.
Other flies I fish in this manner are weighted stonefly nymphs and two other weirdly wonderful flies, the Conehead Rubber Bugger and Shultzy's Red Eyed Leech.





























I think both the rubber bugger and the Shultzy look a little bit like a whole slew of stuff smallmouth are looking to eat in runs and riffles. They slightly resemble everything from a darter to some kind of big nymph to even a little crayfish. At any riffle on the Little Miami there's going to be a dozen kinds of little dark and rusty colored little fish in and among the rocks as well as a list of invertebrates as long as your arm. I think a smallmouth up on a riffle sees a lot of different stuff and isn't about to be as selective as a fish in slower water. That's why I really go for these generalized creepy crawly flies.






















When fishing pools for smallmouth I try to imitate shiners more than anything else. Both the LMR and GMR have about a dozen shiner species and in most stretches of calmer water they are far and away more common than anything else. I like unweighted shiner flies because shiners are usually more active high in the water column and don't hug the bottom like riffle minnows and darters.
As a general rule I try to fish heavier weighted flies and darker flies the closer I get to the riffle and lighter colored flies the farther I am into the pool. This is in a broad general way following the pattern of the dozens of little baitfish in the river. But there are exceptions to the rule. There are so many variables that this only gives you a place a place to start. If the fish aren't biting don't be afraid to experiment. The food chain in smallmouth streams is more complicated than that of just about any other kind of water. If someone tells you they know exactly what's going on down there at any one time, you know just how little they do know. Sometimes I think we catch fish in spite of our best theories. We think we are catching smallmouth feeding on crayfish and they are actually feeding on rainbow darters flushed out of the rocks by crawfish too big for smallmouth to eat. Or any of a hundred other scenarios that might be going on at any given time. 











And of course you have to have some topwater flies. This is stream fishing at it's very finest. I throw deer hair bugs a lot just because I have a huge supply of deer hair from years of bowhunting but a sneaky pete might be a better choice if your only going to buy or tie one. A sneaky pete lets you you fish the slicks in the tail of pools without getting waterlogged like a deer hair bug but is just as effective as the deer hair in quiet water. Some days a deer hair bug or sneaky pete can simply be deadly. Another fly I fish on the surface is a marabou muddler. I know its a streamer but dressed with just a bit of floatant it fishes in the film. I call it fishing it soggy, not wet or dry. Its exciting just like topwater fishing and just as visual.











What are your favorite flies for southwestern Ohio? I'm sure the wiper guys have some pretty cool ones and there has to be a shovelhead fly out there somewhere...


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

Down south in the LMR, the big ol' deceiver has been doing well for me this year.










It's not a fly you're going to catch a pile of 8 inch white bass on, but when it works...


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Those are some great fish pics! Is that the rod you built?


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

Most of my fishing this year was in tributaries of the GMR and LMR, but that is still close enough to post here. In the creeks, I noticed that my bigger minnow imitations would get followed but largely ignored; I chalk this up to the crystal clear water, and the prevalence of crawfish.
I came up with this craw pattern, which is pretty easy and worked for me. Barbel eyes, marabou tail, my cat's fur for a dubbed body, copper wire ribbing. Rubber legs optional but certainly not required. Stripped in little hops across the bottom, the bass could not help themselves.








I also tied some top waters using craft foam, which attracted sunfish and bass alike. They went after both the large gurgler/popper variety as well as smaller beetle/spider patterns.
















I had very little success in the rivers proper with fly gear this year. I think this is because I had trouble getting the fly down to where the fish were, as they looked great in the water. I think I am going to invest in a sink tip line for this. What luck I did have in the rivers was with larger Clouser Minnows.








Once I get a sink tip, I would really like to try and target some saugfish on the fly.


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

Thanks osg! Yep, that's the 7 wt I built. Unfortunately, it is out of commission after a mishap involving a kayak seat down in Mobile bay earlier this month... it'll be ready to go again before the river gets back up to 50 deg!


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

King, I'd highly recommend getting an integrated sink tip line, rather than a sinking leader. It's more expensive, of course, but handles much better. I found myself using the sink tip line with unweighted flies and getting plenty deep for most applications. In the rare instance where I needed more depth, a clouser on the sink tip gets down with a quickness. For everything but topwater, it works pretty well.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

nitsud said:


> King, I'd highly recommend getting an integrated sink tip line, rather than a sinking leader. It's more expensive, of course, but handles much better. I found myself using the sink tip line with unweighted flies and getting plenty deep for most applications. In the rare instance where I needed more depth, a clouser on the sink tip gets down with a quickness. For everything but topwater, it works pretty well.


That is exactly what I wanted to hear haha. I had a "fast sinking" poly leader for a while but it didn't seem to work too well. For the creeks, a floating line is great, but I would really like to have luck on the rivers like I do with spinning gear.

What type do you use? Type III? IV?


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## creekfly (Nov 15, 2013)

I was wanting to try the sink tip line also. I have one of the poly sink tips and I don't like how it casts. I have a full sink on my musky rod but throwing a 10 wt all day gets tiring.

My best flies of the year were an all white bead head wooly bugger and a sneaky Pete on the rivers. On the skinny water I love the explosions on a foam spider.

Sent from my XT603 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

I'm pretty sure I was using the 7 wt version of this line:

http://www.basspro.com/Cortland-333-Pro-Trout-SinkTip-Fly-Line/product/74017/

primarily because it was the cheapest one out there, and I hadn't used sink tip before. It worked pretty well, though. No complaints, but I found that I slowed down my cast a little to account for the denser head. The leader sink tips suck pretty bad in comparison.

One other tip is not to use a long leader when using a sink tip and unweighted fly, especially if you need to get down fast. What can happen is that the tip will sink, but the fly will stay up top until the leader pulls it down. Typically, I'm fishing in murkyish water for fish that are not known to be leader shy, so I'd often run a 4-6 ft length of heavy flouro (>20 lb) as a leader. A lot easier to deal with than spindly 12' trout leaders


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

Nitsud, do you use a tapered/knotted leader, or just level line? I was given some heavy flouro that just found a new purpose


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

I've gone back and forth from furled leaders (17 lb flouro) and straight 30 lb flouro. The heavy is fine if you don't mind the fly flopping into the water, the furled is more subtle and lays out nicely. Tied leaders are a pain to make and deal with, and I think the furled ones are better for presentation.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

I find that I really enjoyed playing around with tying leaders when fishing dry flies for trout. You can start off with stiff line in three or four different diameters that taper down to a medium stiff material and then down to really supple stuff for the tippet. The stiff material helps turn over a long leader and made up about sixty percent of the leaders I tied. If you want to play around with tying your own leaders without spending a hundred bucks, the el cheapo monos sold dirt cheap at places like walmart are great for the butt section. Then three or four different diameters of trilene xl tapering down to good tippet material. You certainly get practice tying a blood knot. You can create a long ten or twelve foot dry fly leader that will turn over a fly great but still place it down gently. Just like tying flies though realize it's not going to save you any money over buying a tapered leader, its just fun.

I'll throw out something controversial here. Somewhere around a seven or an eight weight I feel overtackled in the LMR. To me they just aren't that fun to throw all day. If I'm going to throw something that big I'd rather throw something on a spinning rod. Maybe that's what keeps me from ever becoming a "serious" fly fisherman. But once the tackle gets a certain size I just find spinning tackle more fun (and this from a guy that owns nine fly rods). But to me nothing is more fun than making a pretty cast on tackle I like to throw and then being rewarded by the fish taking my fly.


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

For anywhere but the lower regions fishing for hybrids, I totally agree. Most of the big fish I catch are in the heat of summer. During that time, you might hook up with one of these things throwing a small fly on a 5 wt. You may even land it. It may even appear to sort of swim off in a daze after the long fight, but that fish is dead.

Aside from that, I really like the elemental nature of fighting the full strength of the fish and the current, with the rod near it's limit. Short and brutal battles are my game.

BTW, I totally understand the allure of making and tuning leaders and fine presentations to picky trout. It's another part of an expansive hobby that would be boring if done the same way by everyone. I wish there was more of that kind of fishing around, but I'll take my fun however I can get it


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

I was at the Buckeye Fly Fishers meeting about a week ago and the guest was Mike Schmidt who fishes some huge flies for monster brown trout. All during his presentation I remember thinking that the striper guys would love his flies. Things like double deceivers that are eight inches long. If you google Mike Schmidt flies you can find some neat ones. I bet you'll like em.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> I was at the Buckeye Fly Fishers meeting about a week ago and the guest was Mike Schmidt who fishes some huge flies for monster brown trout. All during his presentation I remember thinking that the striper guys would love his flies. Things like double deceivers that are eight inches long. If you google Mike Schmidt flies you can find some neat ones. I bet you'll like em.


I read an article once about throwing big mouse flies for brown trout. The size of the fish these guys were catching was ridiculous. Hard to believe you can catch those same fish on nearly microscopic size 24 midge.


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

Mike's got some skills, no doubt. The big articulated things are really cool. A pattern that some of the Mobile Bay guys are using is this crazy thing:






It's pretty wicked (silly video aside).


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## deltaoscar (Apr 4, 2009)

nitsud said:


> A pattern that some of the Mobile Bay guys are using is this crazy thing:
> 
> It's pretty wicked (silly video aside).


Wow, that thing looks awesome.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

nitsud said:


> Mike's got some skills, no doubt. The big articulated things are really cool. A pattern that some of the Mobile Bay guys are using is this crazy thing:
> 
> Fish-SkullÂ® Articulated Fish-Spine and Blane Chocklett's Game Changer - YouTube
> 
> It's pretty wicked (silly video aside).


that is really really cool. Looks like a cool wintertime project to learn how to make those


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

Anyone ever have luck with saugfish on the fly?


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## Jointed Minnow (Jun 12, 2012)

Caught a good number of saugs this yr drifting white buggers.. Haven't targeted them specifically on the fly though. 


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## sparky12 (Nov 25, 2007)

I did get 2 saugs this year on clousers. My go to was definetly an olive wooly bugger for the smallies.


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## FishDoctor (Aug 9, 2012)

kingofamberley said:


> I read an article once about throwing big mouse flies for brown trout. The size of the fish these guys were catching was ridiculous. Hard to believe you can catch those same fish on nearly microscopic size 24 midge.


This made me think of a video I watched on youtube earlier this year.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

kingofamberley said:


> Anyone ever have luck with saugfish on the fly?


 Absolutely. Now is prime time. I normally have my best results on a clouser


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

I'd love to hear from someone that fishes flies for pike in the upper GMR too.


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## creekfly (Nov 15, 2013)

If that person exists please take me fishing with you.

Sent from my XT603 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

garhtr said:


> Absolutely. Now is prime time. I normally have my best results on a clouser


Shoot, I need to get that sink tip fast!! What do you think, Type III or VI? (hint Cabela's bargain cave)


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

That is an awesome articulated fly nitsud. Is the pattern available somewhere or is that a secret tie? 

I had the same thoughts osg regarding 7 and 8 weights but throwing wind resistant meaty streamers is still hard to do with spinning gear if using non weighted eyes like that used on a deceiver. The jury is still out.


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

It's called the game changer. Fish skulls is selling the backbone. There are a couple of step by steps on the YouTube. It doesn't look difficult at all, but fairly time consuming. I'll let you know, I have some spines on order.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks, the action on that fly is ridiculously tasty looking.


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## SMBHooker (Jan 3, 2008)

Invention and innovation, the freedom to explore discover and create is not limited to activities on the water. 

I love flyfishing in that tying flies is an art with application. 

Thanks for sharing that's spine is amazing!


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

the world's bestest fly tying page:

http://thefeatherbender.com/

At least, it might be even better than that.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> the world's bestest fly tying page:
> 
> http://thefeatherbender.com/
> 
> At least, it might be even better than that.


What a cool site! Thanks for posting.
I've never heard of singing deer hair. Cool idea.


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