# Jim Stedke mid-winter on line seminar



## Jim Stedke

The Clev. Boat Show is over and we are half way through winter, but there are still at least 6 weeks to go before the start of open water fishing. 

The feeling I have coming out of the IX Center, is that there is some heightened anticipation for the upcoming season. Almost like pent-up demand for a product, guys are anxious to get after the walleyes. 

To help us all (especially me) survive the next several weeks, I'd like to start the fourth annual on-line seminar, where the only dump question, is the one someone doesn't ask, because they think it reflects poorly on them.

As before, ANYONE who has a good answer, can answer any question. Frankly because there are often more than 1 right answer, and as we all know there are many many excellent fishermen frequenting these postings. 

Thank you, for the best ever attendance at the fishing seminars, and who wants to get this started??


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## ShutUpNFish

Awesome...I guess I'll start....I typically use 30 lb. braid for trolling eyes here in the central basin with good results...However, recently I purchased some nice sparkley new combos with Okuma Convector 30s on them. I was hoping to use the combos for walleye, salmon and even some muskie fishing. I know 30 lb. braid would be a little light for muskies, so I was thinking about bumping up my braid poundage to 50lb....my question is this....do you think it will make a big difference in achieved depths trolling with dipsy divers? AND Has anyone experienced using the 50lb Power Pro type braids as apposed to the 30 lb.?

Thanks Jim!

-Paul


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## Jim Stedke

Paul, 30 superbraids are roughly 8# mono dia. 40s are 10 & 50s are 12. The line conversion chart in Precision Trolling shows a difference of 2' from 8 to 10 and from 10 to 12 at lure depth of 20'. Most lures require quite a bit of line out to get 20', (80' plus ) so from that, my quess would be that you'd lose around 4' of depth at 80 to 100' drop lengths. 

Dipsys are not a precise depth tool anyway. Slight speed changes from turning or simply steering adjustments results in significant depth changes (especially from the higher setting (2.5 & up). So lengthen the drops by a few feet and let them swim, I think you'll be fine.


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## bocajemma

My gut reaction is little to no difference. The equiv. line diameter of 50lb power pro is 12lb mono. Equiv. line diameter of 30lb power pro is 8lb mono. This difference may have more effect on long line cranks or inline weights, but I can't imagine you will even notice a difference with dipseys. I don't use braid while trolling dipseys (25lb mono), so maybe someone who does can chime in.


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## bocajemma

Ok, here is my question. I hear a lot of people talking about slow trolling spinners from anywhere from .7 - 1.5 mph. My question is how is that any different from drift fishing? I drift fish probably 85% of the time. My goal while drift fishing is to keep my boat speed around 1mph which in a big boat (28' hardtop) I can easily get to and typically use drift socks to slow my drift down to that speed. There are those that think trolling is the only way to catch eye's. I believe that I can catch just as many drifting using typical drifting techniques and the same techniques and tatics of slow trolling. ie. using different weights 3/4, 1, 2, 3oz., using an inline board or dipsey to increase my spread, etc. I am of the opinion that slow trolling is in reality drift fishing. Slow trolling is just louder with at motor running.


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## Jim Stedke

There is little difference. I agree with all that you say, but Dipsys are too heavy to achieve appreciable separation at speeds under 1.5 mph. 

The primary diference is if you are casting, the lure is in the strike zone a shorter amount of time becasue of the cast, the countdown, and the lift to the boat.

Thanks for the question (really it was more of a statement), and for the most part I agree with it.


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## WBSA

bocajemma said:


> Ok, here is my question. I hear a lot of people talking about slow trolling spinners from anywhere from .7 - 1.5 mph. My question is how is that any different from drift fishing? I drift fish probably 85% of the time. My goal while drift fishing is to keep my boat speed around 1mph which in a big boat (28' hardtop) I can easily get to and typically use drift socks to slow my drift down to that speed. There are those that think trolling is the only way to catch eye's. I believe that I can catch just as many drifting using typical drifting techniques and the same techniques and tatics of slow trolling. ie. using different weights 3/4, 1, 2, 3oz., using an inline board or dipsey to increase my spread, etc. I am of the opinion that slow trolling is in reality drift fishing. Slow trolling is just louder with at motor running.


I've always felt that slow trolling was in effect just controlled drifting. You can even run inline boards while drifting at slow speeds. the problem i have is that most small boats don't drift as well sideways as some of the bigger ones do and that in rough water it's much l;ess comfortable due to the rocking. Electric motors make for a nice quiet trip on my boat. If i had yourboat i'd probably drift more than i do now plus you can't quarter or go into even small waves while drifting to my knowledge.


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## fishingguy

I used to think the same. Drifting over trolling. But I couldn't even imagine drifting over trolling now. I need to have total control of where I am going, and how I am doing it. Drifting, your just hoping the wind will push you through feeding fish at whatever speed. I would much rather control where and how fast I am going.


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## bocajemma

I agree that there is some give up as far as boat control. You definitely only drift with the direction of the wind. Speed control is fairly easy with the bags. I carry three drift socks. One very large, and two medium size (my trolling bags when I do troll) I can mix and match them to get just about any speed I want. Not to the .1 mph or anything but definitely to the .5mph if not the .25mph. Also, just like trolling, I use my chartplotter to set up above the active fish and use the wind to push me through them along roughly the same line. Since I don't have a kicker on my boat my lowest trolling speed with bags is 2mph or slightly lower. I really don't want to use bigger bags and bogg down my 454 any more so that is why I am pondering using the slow trolling tactics in conjunction with my typical drifting tactics. All charters I know of use bottom bouncers effectively with casting. Just thinking that I can also utilize the spread tactics and bait depth control of slow trolling in conjuction with casting while drifting.


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## Papascott

Boca IMHO your better off using bags that are too big. It will require more rpm's which will help with cooling and oil pressure which will actually be better for your motor than running at dead idle.


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## H20hound

Papascott said:


> Boca IMHO your better off using bags that are too big. It will require more rpm's which will help with cooling and oil pressure which will actually be better for your motor than running at dead idle.



I always wondered about that. Probably a lot less of a chance fouling plugs as well. Especially with an I/O. I think I am going to need bigger bags.


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## bocajemma

What is the slowest that any big boat owners can troll using bags and no kicker? I have a 28' hardtop with a 454 inboard. If the wind is blowing enough for 2'-3' waves I drift at about 1mph with a drift sock. I just can see any posibility of being able to troll with the waves at any speed below 2mph regardless of the size of the bags if there is any wind out there. Might be able to do it going against them, but not with them. Am I wrong?


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## Jim Stedke

Boca, You might consider talking w/ Frank Kittrich of Amish Outfitters about his beefy bags (the toughest & best trolling bags I know of) at 800 473 1748. He'd be able to tell you what size bags to get. 

My brother has a 32' Mainette w/ twin 360s and runs 2 48"ers, but he has a larger set for windyer days. And when it's really blowing he runs all 4 (that's when you'd have to be about 1/2 nuts to be out there ie. 6 - 8 footers)

Likely one set of bags will suffice. But there's a learning curve to run them propperly for all situations.


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## Hook N Book

bocajemma said:


> What is the slowest that any big boat owners can troll using bags and no kicker? I have a 28' hardtop with a 454 inboard. If the wind is blowing enough for 2'-3' waves I drift at about 1mph with a drift sock. I just can see any posibility of being able to troll with the waves at any speed below 2mph regardless of the size of the bags if there is any wind out there. Might be able to do it going against them, but not with them. Am I wrong?


Before I added a kicker, I could get down to 1.0-1.5 using the Amish bags. I'm a little smaller though at 23-1/2 ft HT. It would run 2.0 just with the main motor and no bags.


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## JIG

I too have a hard time trollin slow enough with it. Sometimes I just rutter the boat down wind with the prop engaged. Works most the time and if not I have to turn into it. Yes I need bags! Is it being I run down riggers and such off the back do I need 2 bags? One off each side? Is this safe in rough water say 4-6footers?


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## Fish Scalper

Two 48" Beefy Bags will get a 27 foot hardtop down to 0.6; 2-24's will get a 30' hardtop down to 1.6, that's downwind, but you don't have to troll straight downwind do you? Much more comfortable angled away from the wind a bit no matter which way you troll, not to mention cutting some of the wind out of the parachute the hardtop creates downwind. Amish Bags are the way to go in my opinion.


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## fishingguy

Absolutely one bag on each side. If set up correctly you will be able to troll downwind with very little steering adjustments. They also act like stabilizers, each bag pulling against the rocking of the boat. I now have two pairs, I was originally thinking of selling the smaller. But I have decided to keep both. They both have there advantages. I can run a third bag if needed (1mph) from the trailer tow eye. I guess I got five bags?? Maybe I should change my name to bagman.


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## JIG

Ive still got some things to get before this year on the big water. I started to use my big boards to slow me down and your right! If its set right you wont have to steer much and Ill slow a 1mph or so. Tough on the mast though. Also a better chance of water dumpin over the back.


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## rockytop

i dont know how much of a spread someone can get while drifting. but if i had to drift, while casting i would have one eye on a dead stick in a rod holder dragging a bottom bouncer. when i find fish i have a habit of trolling a big oval. i dont care the wind direction, if i hook a fish i know the direction i was going. some days the direction doesnt matter, some days it does. the lake is so clear and the fish are in smaller pods. trolling gets you from one pod to the next pod and over to the third pod. rockytop (BOB)


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## ERIE REBEL

rockytop,wefound out that if you have around a one mph drift speed inline boards work great.esoecially if they hace tattle tails on them.It takes a little longer for the boards to spread but once the bords have reached the dwsired distance away from the boat it is just like bobber fishing.The flag starts to drop and you grab the rod and just swwep the rod and FISH ON!!:T:T


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## ERIE REBEL

Sorry about the spelling,it has been a very long day.


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## sea oxx

Hey Jim
Thanks for doing the online seminar it helped us alot this summer.I have two questions for ya.
1) How far above the fish do you try to keep your lures? 
2)We lost probably, embarrassing as it is, almost half our fish at the boat. Granted this is our first year trolling but man its aggravating. We lost the most when using spoons and dipseys, not quiet as much trouble when using crawlers. Thanks


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## harle96

Jim,

I'm in the hunt for a bigger boat, hopefefully my last 

I have come across several 27 footers with a 454 motor, which costs more than I can shell out for an 8 hour day trolling.

If these larger boats have a Raymarine Autopilot can a kicker be added.

Let me try to clarify...

My question can a kicker be added behind an inboard rudder with auto-pilot and will the steerage be efficient lf though the rudder is in front of the kickers prop?

Thanks,
Dave


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## Jim Stedke

Sea Ox, The clearer the water the higher above the marks you can fish. Also in warm water the higher fish will not mark, so you have to feel around to find them. The cleaner and the warmer the higher I fish. Last year one day, we'd mark them at 27', but to catch them we were way up at 16'. 

So the answer is somewhere between 3' and 15' above the marks.... most often 4 - 8'. 

Losing fish at the boat is something that can't be eliminated, but can be minimized. Watch the fish carefully and you'll learn to anticipate the fishes next move. They tense up, before pulling their head around and diving, and they lay their fins down when they are settled. Move them when they are calm, and be ready when they tense up, the more you catch the more obvious it becomes.

Thanks for the question and good luck this summer.


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## Jim Stedke

An inboard single engine boat can be tricky to handle at trolling speeds. Many fishermen add surface area to the rudder (enlarge them), to help. A Troll Master for the throttle and an ElectroSteer for the kicker steering may be required. 

You would not be very maneuverable with only the autopilot and rudder.

Speakin with South Shore and Steve Carlson (Freebyrd) would be helpful.


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## Kino

Hey Jim, just wanted to say first off, THANKS for the online seminar. Last year was my first year on erie and ever for walleye. From last years thread and a visit to Craig @ erieoutfitters for snelling lessons, I had some AWESOME trips to erie ans still have fish in the freeezer! Can't wait till the spring!

Now, for my first question. On my last trip up which was the first weekend in november we did the night thing. We caught several fish and some real hogs. Our "hot" lead was 20' back on ripsticks. I was using my regular combos with 10lb XT. With only 20' between the board and the fish, we lost ALOT of fish. I was thinking of maybe switching to like 30lb mono so the line will have more lift to it and I can get more space between the board and the lures.My understanding is you want to be in the top 5' or so of the water column. Also, we got into some rocks close to shore and I feel the extra thickness would be beneficial to abrasion on the rocks. Whats your take on all this??


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## wave warrior

this seems to be my biggest problem on erie! we only can make the trip 1-3 times a month living so far away so we are usually spending alot of time searching, my garmin doesnt seem to show fish at higher speed so its a run and stop and look game! sometimes even when we are on what look like eyes i cant get them to go! so my ? is whats the best tactic if going "blind"(like if ogf wasnt there to keep me updated) to find active fish?? i know thats a big question but thought i'd ask anyhow...maybe i need better finder but this one does work proporly and dont have $600+ to toss away on something i already own! unless thats my biggest problem, then a shopping i will go!!

and please dont tell me to get a lowrance product!! i hear too much negetive stuff and the "linda" issue really turns me off on them!!


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## Jim Stedke

Kino, Thicker heavier line will give lift, but it comes at a cost. The lure will have significantly less action. Now that may not hurt a thing, on some nights, but I've got to think it would hurt some of the time.

Slower speeds also cause lures to run higher, and I think that may be a better way to go. I know some nights they wanted a real slow presentation (under 1mph).

An other thought would be to use smaller or more buoyant lures that simply don't dive as deep. Mark Brumbaugh uses Little Rippers often at night, they max out at 7'. There are several Rapalas that are 6' or less. The old Jointed Thundersticks only go 4', and they are super buoyant. The Jr. Thunderstick only goes 5'. You get the idea.

I'll add that I once tried to reduce the dive depth of 700 Ripstick by shortening the bill. I was amazed how much of the bill needed to be removed before the depth changed at all. I had to shorten the bill by more than 50% to affect the depth and by the time I got as shallow as I wanted the action was more reduced than the dive depth. I've not ruined any more Ripsticks since . 

Good luck.


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## ou_bird

sea oxx said:


> 2)We lost probably, embarrassing as it is, almost half our fish at the boat. Granted this is our first year trolling but man its aggravating. We lost the most when using spoons and dipseys, not quiet as much trouble when using crawlers.


I would check and make sure your drag is set light enough to let the walleye strip line during that last run he makes right before the boat. It's especially important with braid because there's no stretch to take up any of the pull. If he pulls without any give it's very easy to rip a bigger hole where the hook is and then half of the time he's gone..

jay


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## Jim Stedke

Wave warrior, We all need to hunt for walleyes before we can fish for the ones we find. I have the luxury of having many friends that fish, and we share info, so I usually have a heads up from someone who was recently there. Also, I'll add, that I know those that can be taken a face value, and those that can't resist embellishing their catches. This site, the satellite view for an idea of dirty water, Iwindsurf for the wind at various areas, talking to bait dealers, and dock-mates, all help narrow down the search pattern, but still search we must.

So far as fishfinders are concerned, transducer placement and angle have more to do with reading at speed than anything else, and if you haven't tried adjust it, you may give that a shot. If you think you need a new one, gets the best you can afford and digital if possible.

If you were with at the start of the day, you'd likely get a little miffed at the fact that I do not drop down on the first catchable marks I see. Rather I mark them, then spend some time looking around the area, at other likely areas to see what's going on there. So I have an idea which way to go if spot one doesn't go. 

The only time I don't do this is when I've been there the day before (as in prefishing for a tournament) and it seems that everything is the same as the day before.

Now let's say that I have a heard that a certain area has good fish. I am not going to run straight to those numbers and set up. I'll start looking 1.5 miles short of the numbers, and if the marks are good I'll start setting lines, if I decide to work the numbers I'll set at least 1/2 mile short of the numbers, so that when I get on the spot all lines are in, at depth, and fishing. 

If the marks are questionable (as in no bait or few fish) I'll run past the numbers by 1 mile, make a big slow 1/2mile wide loop, head back towards the numbers, purposely miss them by 1/4 mile and keep looking.

Just exactly where I go depends on where the spot is ie. near structure or in open water, what time of year and what else I know of the current situation. 

I hope this helps, our finders all mark fish at speed, and I'd sure work at trying to make that happen. It's so much easier and faster that way.


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## roger23

What Planer board rods to buy????? ,,I had 8 Browning 7' ones for over 20 years,They went with my last boat as part of the sale ,,I don't know what to buy,I have tried several from friends ,did not really care for any of them except for a couple Shakespeare that the don't make any more


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## wave warrior

jim, great answer to a tough question! thanks!! have adj. the ducer some and i will keep trying, if all else fails i will upgrade it, would love to be on a pod in someone elses rig at high speed to see how it looks, hook wise!! or if someone has a pic to post of eyes on screen at speed that would be great!! thanks again!


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## Jim Stedke

wave warrior, The fish at speed are just small marks (a verticle line the heighth that the hook would be). If the unit is color, the size shows by the color. If you can get to Steve Carlson's open house at South Shore, he has screen captures of fish at 57 mph from his Raymarine unit on the Contender he was running. 

The fish are in the cone for such a short time there is no hook.


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## FishON32

Jim my finder also doesn't get good readings at high speeds. I almost have to idle to get good marks. I have an eagle with gps and it was pretty expensive I believe the model is a sea charter. My transducer is about level coming off of the transom, should I angle it down more to get better readings and about what angle.

Also last year was my first year trolling Erie. I started out using dipsys with spoons and double willows because of limited funds and didn't even boat a walleye. I run 4 rods with line counters and 30# power pro. This year I saved up to buy inline boards and some colorado harnesses. My question is which boards, releases, flags are the best and do I need to run 4 boards or 2? Also what bags would be the best I have a 18' tracker targa (aluminum hull) It usually idles 2 - 2.5 mph? Thanks


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## Workdog

wave warrior said:


> jim, great answer to a tough question! thanks!! have adj. the ducer some and i will keep trying, if all else fails i will upgrade it, would love to be on a pod in someone elses rig at high speed to see how it looks, hook wise!! or if someone has a pic to post of eyes on screen at speed that would be great!! thanks again!


I had the same problem as you (having to drop off plane to see bottom AND fish). I fixed that with a new Airmar transducer. I got the B60-20 tilted element thru hull ducer. I had to drill a 2 3/8" hole in the boat to mount it though. The 20 degree tilted element looks straight down when mounted in my 20 degree deadrise hull. I trailer my boat and like the fact that the ducer head is nearly flush with the bottom of the hull. The nice thing about this thru hull ducer is it does not require a fairing. Water flow over it is good, and I can mark fish at least to 35 mph (I almost never go up to my WOT speed of 45 mph). Prior to this, I had a transom mount ducer and an in hull ducer epoxied inside the bilge. For my boat, they did not perform well. You could also try a shoot-thru-the-hull ducer like the P79 for less money. You order the transducer with a Garmin plug. When/if you ever upgrade your sonar, get another Garmin.


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## wave warrior

thanks workdog, i'll look into that! do you have a link to where to get those 'ducers?? that very well may "fix" my issue!!


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## Jim Stedke

roger23, Rods are such a personal preference thing, I hate to get specific. If you have a BassPro near you, they have many to look at. Several guys like a 7' Ulgystick for boards. The old soft 7' med. St Croix is gone, that was a fav of mine. 

Take your time and make sure you find one you like, and get them all identical. Reading unmatched rods is a problem, and greatly increases the likelihood of problems.

Others will likely chime in with suggestions, good luck.


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## Workdog

wave warrior said:


> thanks workdog, i'll look into that! do you have a link to where to get those 'ducers?? that very well may "fix" my issue!!


Try this one: http://www.boemarine.com/products/c...d=f21e9ecc-9f3a-46d5-a373-6848a30c659d&Page=6
Byownerelectronics (BOE) is a good dealer. Call and ask Jim questions. He's very knowledgeable about electronics. Don't let the $200 sticker shock (less for the P79) scare you too bad.  A good transducer can make or break a fishing trip.

P.S. You'll have to go to the Airmar website for specs on their ducers.


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## Jim Stedke

FishON23, To get the best readings a transducer should be fairly level with the lake bottom, the heel (rear) of the transducer should be 1/8th inch lower than the front to try and get less turbulence under the transducer, and it should be mounted in an area where the cleanest water comes out from under the boat.

Beginners would get a huge jump start by going out with a good Captain on a learning charter. Where the idea is to show you how, & help you understand some of the subtleties. My brother Rich Stedke does these, but he has a 32' boat, and you'd learn more in a boat closer to your size. There are a few smaller boat charters, but discuss what you want to learn, and make sure the guy is reputable.

Or find a OGFer to take you out or go on your boat, to show you the ropes. There are many on this site who enjoy teaching, and would be glad to assist.

Boards: I like the Off Shore in-line boards, and add the snapper releases. The tattle flags are important for harnesses, and slow presentations, so I'd suggest them as well. This pushes the cost up to over 50 bucks each retail. 

You can start w/ 2 but you'll end up w/ 4. If you start w/ 2 buy both for the same side because you read one board off the other. 

Bags, Amish outfitter bags are my choice, and I'd get 24"ers (too big is better than too small), or talk to the owner Frank Kittrick @ 800 473 1748.

Good luck.


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## FreeByrdSteve

Workdog said:


> I had the same problem as you (having to drop off plane to see bottom AND fish). I fixed that with a new Airmar transducer. I got the B60-20 tilted element thru hull ducer. I had to drill a 2 3/8" hole in the boat to mount it though. The 20 degree tilted element looks straight down when mounted in my 20 degree deadrise hull. I trailer my boat and like the fact that the ducer head is nearly flush with the bottom of the hull. The nice thing about this thru hull ducer is it does not require a fairing. Water flow over it is good, and I can mark fish at least to 35 mph (I almost never go up to my WOT speed of 45 mph). Prior to this, I had a transom mount ducer and an in hull ducer epoxied inside the bilge. For my boat, they did not perform well. You could also try a shoot-thru-the-hull ducer like the P79 for less money. You order the transducer with a Garmin plug. When/if you ever upgrade your sonar, get another Garmin.


The Airmar Tilted Element Transducer referenced above will be a HUGE help to anyone having problems MARKING FISH at speed. That combined with the DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY on the fishfinder side should enable you MARK FISH up to WOT. I've been using this since 2003 when Raymarine introduced the digital technology. They were the only company that had the digital technology until Furuno introduced their version in 2006. Lowrance finally came out with their implementation with the HDS units that came out I think in 2009. I'm not positive on Garmin's current fishfinder technology but will be researching that.


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## BaddFish

Jim- Thanks for this forum! 

I'm new to Erie fishing and will have a 20' Thompson in my possession in a couple months... I've got 4 line counter combos ready, fish finder, GPS, still need a couple good nets...and from the sounds of it a couple trolling bags.. I'm a muskie guy with the desire to fill my freezer!

My question is: What would you say the 2 most important things are for a rookie to get fish (walleye & perch) in the boat.

I've been talking with Larry (Dixie Chicken) about this quite extensively and he's got me set up with church boards and dipseys and I already have quite a few plugs and harnesses from fishing Mosquito for eyes.

I will probably be going out of Fairport mostly with the occasional Euclid visit.
Thanks!


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## Jim Stedke

Baddfish, If you don't have the 2 Precision Trolling books ... you need them. Pro Edition for the lures, and Big Water Edition for the diving devises. 

Reef Runners and the patiance to propperly tune them.

A learning charter or trip w/ someone to start you off on the right foot.

Oh yea ... a bigger freezer. LOL

Good luck.


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## BFG

> What Planer board rods to buy?????



My answer would be "it depends...."

What is your trolling method? Big boards or inlines?

You can get away with a much softer and shorter rod when running big boards than you can running inlines. 

A good friend of mine runs big boards and he has 7' Shimano Taloras in medium light action. These rods are WONDERFUL big board rods, and make catching fish an absolute joy. He previously had 6'6 Ugly Stiks in medium action that were "ok"...but were a bit stiff for my liking. Running longer rods (over 7') on big board programs only presents un-necessary hassle in my opinion when it comes to setting lines. 

For inlines a mistake I have seen a lot of guys make is exactly as Jim stated above...they do not buy the same length, action, nor make of rod. This is a BIG mistake..as being able to read rods while pulling inlines is crucial to running clean baits when bycatch and weeds start to become a problem as summer progresses. I really like 8' or 8'6 Daiwa Heartland rods for inlines, as well as the less expensive Firefox (?) version. Whatever you decide, make sure that the rods you purchase have a relatively "soft" action from the tip of the rod back about 4' or so. Far too many times I have been on boats where the rods were virtual "cue sticks" and it made reading them nearly impossible. The softer action on the Heartlands also helps a lot when fishing in chop, as it "gives and goes" as the board pulls and surges in the waves. 

Dang...now I won't be able to concentrate for the next hour...thinking about rods laying straight back as the board gets buried.....


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## rickerd

Jim,
thanks again for all your helpful information. I also cannot "see" fish on the screen when I am above 10mph. With your earlier answer, maybe I don't know what to look for. I will start to look for the short rectangles as fish. I do seem to have much clutter on screen at higher speeds too. I started to look at the water the transducer is travelling in. Here's my question, will trim tabs raise the stern enough to make the transducer get static readings from the water. I have the transducer on the lowest chine of the boat with the trim tabs on the outer chine and strake. I'm not sure I have any other options to minimize the static, without removing the tabs which I will not do.

best,
Rickerd


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## Jim Stedke

rickerd, Tabs shouldn't hurt the ducer unless they cause turbulance to wash over it. Try squatting the heel a smidge, it's pretty amazing how much that can help.

good luck


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## FishON32

Thanks Jim & BFG


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## Scout Abaco

bocajemma said:


> What is the slowest that any big boat owners can troll using bags and no kicker? I have a 28' hardtop with a 454 inboard. If the wind is blowing enough for 2'-3' waves I drift at about 1mph with a drift sock. I just can see any posibility of being able to troll with the waves at any speed below 2mph regardless of the size of the bags if there is any wind out there. Might be able to do it going against them, but not with them. Am I wrong?


I have a 28 Scout Abaco hard top with twin Yamaha 200 HPDI. With one motor running and two 28 bags I get me down to 1.25 to 1.5 MPH consistently. It is all about how the boat is setup. Maybe try bigger bags maybe


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## Scout Abaco

My question is about auto pilots especially the Raymarine SPX-5 Sport that goes on your wheel. My boat does fit the weight limits. I heard they had problems and solved those problems. Does anyone have one and what do you think?


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## swhetstone1

Jim,
I currently purchased a Fisher Hawk 170 SC and would like to make a few trips to lake erie this summer. What kind of advice can you give me on time and location? FYI, I am KJ (wapakoneta)partner. Thanks for all the information in advance. 
swhetstone1


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## rockytop

jim nice meeting and talking to you at the boat show. i would like to talk about speed. do most guys trust there paddle wheel for water speed. or there gps sog, speed over ground. i always used a loran for boat speed then whatched my vmg or velocity made good and try and even them out. also how helpfull are the down speed units. like the fish hawk and others. rockytop (BOB)


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## Jim Stedke

swhetstone, Late May & early June are good times, but earlier can be better. KJ was along on an April trip w/ us and on that day your boat would have been fine, but the weather must be right. Watch this site and don't be afraid to call me for any currnet info. Maybe I'll go w/you. We'll get you on some fish. Somewhere from April to Nov. & from the Islands to Vermilion. Good luck w/ the new boat.


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## Jim Stedke

rockytop, The Fish Hawk & rigger mounted units are useful, and starting in Fairport, the further east you go the more important they become, because of the increase in frequency and duration of currents. But I've seen where they have a negative impact on the deep Dipsys on that side, and I'd not suggest having done at all times. 

The other down side is that they require batteries, and for me, that would be an issue. 

Speed, The GPS is more accurate than the wheels, and I believe if you take and it is certainly close enough


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## Jim Stedke

Scout Abaco, Sorry, you snuck that one in on me. One of the fellows at one of the seminars had one and was way impressed with it. It did need fixed, but worked great after that. 

You might talk to South Shore (Steve Carlson - Freebyrd) to get their take. They will give you the straight scope and stand behind what they say.

good luck.


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## swhetstone1

Jim, when Indian lake heats you, Seth, Kj and myself need to get together and fish for some saugeyes. Hope you have a good season!

swhetstone


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## Jim Stedke

Yea, you guys did well, maybe we can take 2 boats and have a little competition. So long as you promise to take it easy on the old fart.


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## swhetstone1

Sounds good! I will let you know when it starts to heat up.


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## FishON32

Jim, I'm going to be purchasing some tackle inline boards, weights, and colorado harnesses. Where is good place to purchase them (price wise) around the Cleveland area or online, and what "go to" colors would you recommend?


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## blue dolphin

If you live close to strongsville Rodmaker shop on prospect and 82 is a good place to go ask for Ray and tell him i sent ya as if your closer to Sheffield lake go to erie outfitters and talk to Craig and tell him the same and he will hook you up hes right on Rt6 close to abbe rd. As far as colors you can go crazy with them but some of my go toos would be Magritta. Pink panties, gold clown, burnt shrimp, purple rain, yellow jacket just to name a few. The new UV stuff is awesome and so is the glow i would defintley grab some of that. THe Rednek trolling weights are awesome I like the red, green, pink and orange colored ones. Hope this helps and good luck Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## BFG

> also how helpfull are the down speed units. like the fish hawk and others


Bob,

I fish Lake Michigan quite often during the year and the friends with whom I fish all agree....you could take away their fish finder and they would still fish..but you take away their speed and temp unit and they'll go home. 

My buddy Keith brings his Hewescraft over here every year in June and we fish for a week. He has a Depth Raider, and given that I have used FishHawk's, Moor Sub-Troll's, and the Cannon SnT...the Depth Raider wins every day and twice on Sunday. 

If I fished the Central or Eastern basin, there is no way in the world I would be caught out there without a speed/temp unit. When fishing deep...knowing how fast your lures are running at depth can make all the difference in the world.


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## triton189

I am looking at getting into using planner boards. Any recommondations on what brand of boards work the best? My boat is only 19' long & does have a 8hp kicker. Any help or suggestions with trolling for this rookie would be greatly appreciated...!


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## Jim Stedke

FishOn32, I was going to say what Gary said. Nuff said.


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## Jim Stedke

triton189, Off Shore are my preferred small boards, Amish Outfitters sells the best ready made big boards.

Help wise: search "Jim Stedke on line seminar" and read all the posts from the last 3 years. You name it .... it's there.

Then come back and ask any follow ups you may have.


PS : I tried the search and it's messy. It's easier to click on the replies heading which then shows the posts with the most replies. The 3 old seminars are right there 2nd 3rd & 4th . Happy reading.

To get back to the normal setting, click on "last post".


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## FishON32

Thanks Gary I was able to catch a little of your seminar at the boat show before I had to go (girlfriend had to pick up her kid ) I've already sent my RSVP for the Feb 20th seminar and can't wait!

Jim, good tip on the search filter. I'm going to check out those old threads as I'm sure some of my questions are answered there. Great thread guys keep them coming.


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## BFG

Here's one for ya' Jim...

How speed tolerant are double willow harnesses, and can they effectively be run off of downriggers, and if so...how long of a lead say in 28fow?

Thanks.


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## H20hound

Is there really a difference in catch rates running a 2' snelled harness and 6-8' of leader
vs. 6-8ft snell and 2-4 foot of leader?


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## Jim Stedke

BFG, Dbl willow harnesses can be run at speeds up to 2.5 or higher if the leaders are stiff enough. 

How for behind riggers is dependant on the mood of the fish. I'd probably give them 30 -50' behind the ball in 28 fow typically, but I'd choose Dipsy as a method of getting them down first. I feel they'd spook fewer walleyes.


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## Jim Stedke

H2Ohound, Not enough to loose sleep over. I've caught walleyes on goofier rigs then that.


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## BFG

> I feel they'd spook fewer walleyes.


Interesting, as I don't really feel that a dipsey is a stealthy approach? We are only running 8# torpedo weights on Erie. 

Thanks for the info...2.5 huh? Never woulda thunk it...


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## blue dolphin

BFG Make sure you use black or clear dipseys no metallics i like a ten foot flouro leader and then my 30lb fireline harness about 6 inches long. I think its stealth enuff. for sure . 

I have to agree with Jim on the boards the offshore are the way to go the churches i used for a year and i started out liking them but found out that there to heavy and once they sink look out and sometimes that wasnt from a fish but a wave for what its worth. 

FishOn glad your coming to the seminar make sure you introduce your self. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## FishON32

Gary thanks for bringing up dipsy color. What brand and type of paint holds up best and I'm asuming a flat black?


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## Hetfieldinn

Krylon makes a paint specifically for bonding to plastic called Fusion. I painted some Dipsys seven years ago with a flat, high temp grill paint, and they've held up very well. Scuff up the Dipsy with a sanding sponge first.


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## peerlessfisherman

Back to harnesses off of riggers. I like to use an inline sinker to get the harness a few feet below the ball. Harness, 6' florocarbon leader, 1 oz inline and then 20-40' of line to the release. You're less likely to spook the walleye if your bait is well below the ball.


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## Jim Stedke

BFG said:


> Interesting, as I don't really feel that a dipsey is a stealthy approach? We are only running 8# torpedo weights on Erie.
> 
> Thanks for the info...2.5 huh? Never woulda thunk it...


BFG, Torpedo wts. cause less disturbance than balls, but I think part of why a Dipsy is so effective is that is raises the walleyes curiousity and they fall in behind it to investigate. As they approach from the rear they sense something small (your spoon, stickbait or harness) following the big thing, which is quite natural....and they eat it.

Also Dipsys are always working up & out and down & in, as you make any steering change, so they have some depth change, which never hurts.

Thanks for your thoughts, they are just a important as mine.


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## blue dolphin

Flat black like Het said and dont forget to take of the hardware before painting. Good luck Gary


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## JIG

After using diff baits along with diff tools such as dipseys,riggers,boards and weights I find it alot easier to run braid on all of my levelwinds and place a snap big enough for a 40dipsey. This way the leader goes from one tool to the other with a weight,dipsey or nothin at all for a rigger. Pending on bait. I get to use the same rod on all my tools all year round. Just match the rod to the waves. Heavy waves take flimsey rods. Calm days I like a stiffer rod. Leader is always the same. Just what ya put in the middle. Hope it helps!


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## SELL-FISH

blue dolphin said:


> Flat black like Het said and dont forget to take of the hardware before painting. Good luck Gary


I have a heavy solids black paint that comes in a can that is awesome. You could drag a dipsie home behind your boat and this stuff wouldn't come off. Pm if your interested. Scott..


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## sea oxx

I have a couple line counters ,I lost braided line from last year. Can I just tie the new line to whats left and fill the reel back up or should I replace all the line? If I can tie on to the old line what knot is best?


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## Jim Stedke

Sea Oxx, I want enough new line so that I don't have to fish with the knot off the reel. If the knot is buried.. you'd be fine. Good luck.

Opps the knot... Actually with superbraids a square knot with a safety on top is as good as any. The knot is only tested with some sort of trouble.


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## sea oxx

Alright thanks Jim.


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## JIG

Why some days dipseys and some days jets? Never used a jet before and some days guys hit the fish! I love dipsey/spoon fishin and hold myself back from usin jets. Thanks for the help! Bob


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## Jim Stedke

Jigs, The only answer that I have for that one is "just cause". I keep asking the fish, but I haven't got an answer yet.


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## HappySnag

sea oxx -if you put new line on reel minimum 150 yards in one peese,you can use the old line as filler.

snag


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## HappySnag

JIG -you can spread jets more on big bords,than you can spred dipsy.

snag


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## sea oxx

Thanks Mr. Snag


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## boatnut

HappySnag said:


> sea oxx -if you put new line on reel minimum 150 yards in one peese,you can use the old line as filler.
> 
> snag


yup and back to back "uni knots" to join the two.


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## sea oxx

Thanks Boatnut


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## JIG

Cant put dipseys behind boards but you can jets? Guess its more jet or weight? Not jet or dipsey.


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## boatnut

JIG said:


> Why some days dipseys and some days jets? Never used a jet before and some days guys hit the fish! I love dipsey/spoon fishin and hold myself back from usin jets. Thanks for the help! Bob


I agree with Jim's answer....only the fish know for sure. Since being converted to the way of the worm, I rarely run spoons anymore. When I did, I would always run a combination of dipsey's and jet's. Some days the dipsey's would out perform the jets but for the most part, jet's seemed to prevail. Why? I have no clue. I just know that I'd much rather catch fish on dipsey's then jet's. No doubt when a fish is on and lot's less line to reel in.


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## JIG

Might have to try jets with small dipseys. Its always one or the other. Also know what ya mean about LONG lines. Got a bud that runs steel at 350 with bommers.That get old fast!!!!Thats when I went with 2oz at 250.


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## BFG

Not saying I am going to convert the way of the worm like Boatnut, but I do have a question about worm handling on the boat...

Several of the guys with whom I fish basically have a "no worm" policy on their boats due to the mess incurred. 

How do you keep things tidy....just wondering.


BFG


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## SELL-FISH

I buy worms by the flat and transfer them to them to the shredded newspaper bedding. On the boat I use an ice water bath to keep the boat clean and the worms plump. This way I have no mess, but even if things get hot and heavy I only have dried up newspaper debri to get rid of not black worm sh*tt dirt. Scott.


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## Jim Stedke

JIG said:


> Cant put dipseys behind boards but you can jets? Guess its more jet or weight? Not jet or dipsey.


Jig, Small Dipsys (size 0) can be run behind large or small boards. The fact that Jets float at rest make them more convenient.


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## HappySnag

BFG-reed the fift post exelent, http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=135529&highlight=worms

snag


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## rockytop

JIG said:


> Why some days dipseys and some days jets? Never used a jet before and some days guys hit the fish! I love dipsey/spoon fishin and hold myself back from usin jets. Thanks for the help! Bob


i agree with everyone that only the fish know. also all rules can be broken, never liked small dipsy they dont get to the side enough and not enough seperation. and they dont work as well off the big boards as do the jets. worm inline weights small boards go hand in hand. 40 and 50 jets and big boards go hand in hand. lorain last year was the worst for big dipsys, but fairport, geneva they worked very good. to get to 30 ft down 40 jet needs 130 ft line out 50 jet 70ft 1dypsy also 70ft. this situation the 40 jet worked the best. rockytop (BOB)


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## K gonefishin

JIG said:


> Why some days dipseys and some days jets? Never used a jet before and some days guys hit the fish! I love dipsey/spoon fishin and hold myself back from usin jets. Thanks for the help! Bob



Jim's answer is correct but I always beat my head against the wall trying to figure things out to at least come to some sort of conclusion on the why or reasons as to why.. A couple things that I have taken note on why divers may pull better than jets on any given day are and visa versa are, depth the are presented at, current and how it forces the baits to have more action, the diving characteristics of a jet vs a diver, jets float and push water against the face of the jet diver differently therefore there has to be some sort of turbulence that occurs behind the jet therefore your bait, some days the walleye might like what is hitting them in the face some days they may not depending the there mood, divers have vertical movement due to wave and boat action turns etc, when jets are ran off boards either inline or big boards the pull on them varies by the day or even on the hour due to the wave conditions being different, so jets have more action on them especially for the guys who run braid, divers probably a tad less once again depending on the boat action and surge due to the direct pull on them, most guys run divers with braid so a direct pull is present especially on turns, I personally run jets of mono so a little less surge occurs due to all the line out, some days they want that bait pulled away from there face some days they may not, they just might want it swimming by. Jets due to them floating, if you stall one side of the boat it will float up with your bait following, once that side of the boat catches up the bait will take off really fast often triggering a strike, this cannot be done with a diver, even on a hard turn with a diver just speeds the bait up and rises slightly in the water column but doesnt have the rocket type shooting effect due to no buoyancy. Just a couple rambling thoughts on the two techniques. Food for thought I guess.


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## rickerd

Jim and everyone else, thank you for all this information. 

I'm a novice trolling with anything other than the BB or inline. Now I would like you to critique my set using all that I have learned. I have a 22 foot boat with 2 rodholders on each side, one at back and one in middle. 
Here's my kit of parts, I have many harnesses and fish them well drifting and know how to troll them off a BB or with inline weights. I spent too much money on RR and spoons over the last couple years and haven't used them yet but I want to learn. I have 2 trolling rods with linecounters and 30# mono. I have 2 casting/trolling rods with spincast reels for BB and inlines. I have size 0 dipsies in black and (2) of each jet 30's and 40's in clear. I also have 2 church boards one for each side. 

First I find the fish. Then to set up a troll I was thinking of running harnesses off the back straight lining them one on a BB and the other on an inline 5-8 feet higher than the other. Off the sides I will run a harness off a dipsy on setting 3 with different lengths of line to get to different depths. Or I could run the harnesses behind a jet30 or 40 off the board at different depths. If I see one setup outfishing others, I switch another rod over to the same depth to give them more of what they like. Would this be a good starting point for me. When is a good time to use the RR or spoons in WB?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Rickerd


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## bocajemma

Rickerd,

I am a novice compared to some of these guys for trolling but here is my 2 cents worth on some basic set up. The farthest lines away from your boat (off boards or whatever) should be the longest and the highest in the water column. From there you work your way in shorter line and deeper in the water clolumn. I would think outside long line with inline weights or whatever. then your dipseys inside of that and then jets inside of the dipseys. Once you find the depth and the presentation you adjust all of the sets for that, but still keep your outside lines the longest and shorter lines as you work back to the center of the boat. Does that make any sense at all??


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## trapperjon

hey jim. getting off the topic at hand "sorryguys" but im wondering if the ice out bite here in c-land is the same as western basin. hairjigs ect.. or are the same fall bite tacticts effective such as slowwww trolling cranks in the same areas ? im usually launching @ 72nd or edgewater. hoping to stay in the same areas in the EARLY spring [late winter] if not. is jigging the stadium reef worth staying in the c-land area? thanks for your time, JON


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## K gonefishin

trapperjon said:


> hey jim. getting off the topic at hand "sorryguys" but im wondering if the ice out bite here in c-land is the same as western basin. hairjigs ect.. or are the same fall bite tacticts effective such as slowwww trolling cranks in the same areas ? im usually launching @ 72nd or edgewater. hoping to stay in the same areas in the EARLY spring [late winter] if not. is jigging the stadium reef worth staying in the c-land area? thanks for your time, JON


I've tried it with limited success, better off perch fishing in Cleveland early in the year or troll for steelies. Some resident walleye are around and I'm sure if you fish it long enough and hard enough you can probably catch a couple but I'd go west just for pure numbers. If you get something figured out let us know! 

Since I don't have any big tourney's to fish in April this year I'm going to try pike fishing the bay's and harbor's this spring in Cleveland, and a little perch fishing, I have all year to walleye fish and want to try something different.


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## Jim Stedke

rickerd, Let me add to your well thought out plans: if you are running 2 boards or 2 Dipsys run either pair off the same side of the boat. The reason for this is you read one Dipsy rod off of the other one, or one planer board off the other one. 

Most trollers use 10 # mono because the Precision Trolling dive curve book is based on 10# Trilene XT.

Dipsy rods need to have 30 -50# test superbraid, I like Power Pro.
Good luck, and welcome to best walleye lake in the world.


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## JIG

"Good luck, and welcome to best walleye lake in the world." You said it! Got too be one of the best sites to. Without some of you guys none of this would be possible. For that I thank you and I cant wait to get back on the soft water. With post like Boatnuts,Kevins,Jims,ect... it gives a guy the confindence to get some fish. Thats what its about! Helping Someone.


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## Jim Stedke

trapperjon, K gone has more experience in Cleveland early than I do, and I can only 2nd his thoughts.


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## Guest

Mr Stedke and friends.
Thanks for a great thread. I spent the last week reading the old ones so as to not ask the same questions already asked. 
I dont get to Lake Erie as much as I would like. I also spend lot of days at Indian Lake and CJ Brown. I learned from the past posts when you said to run mono lines and fireline when trolling and see what the fish want. I only have four trolling rods (two with mono and two with 10/4 fireline). and yes there are days one will outperform the other. If I am on Lake Erie and I am only catching fish on fireline is there some tricks in getting the same result with mono (maybe add a snap weight?) If they like the mono, what can I do to maybe increase my chance with fireline (all other things equal, depth, crank type and color)? 
One other question. I read or was told to alternate trolling rods from port to starboard every day as to not keep pulling the rod in the same direction all the time. Any truth to this or what is your opinion?

Thanks Again for this information. Maybe someday we can get together and compare Indian Lake notes.

Kem Wilson (Syclone)


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## Jim Stedke

Every day on Lake Erie is a race of trial & error to figure out what works best. Adding a sinker to cause some vertical movement can be key, adding scent or a piece of crawler can be key, but getting the depth right is one most important thing on a daily basis.

The only way to keep Fireline going when they want mono is to add about 50' of mono onto the end of the Fireline, which essentially converts the rod to a mono rod without completely changing the line. 

The reverse works also.

I've not heard of or purposely done the rod on alternating sides thing, but it can't hurt anything. That being said, I don't think it's really necessary with modern blank resins.

Goodluck.


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## skinny

Jim, I attended your seminar at the boat show last week with my father and brother and 
really enjoyed it. I have fished lake erie since I was 13 with my father and he is 86 
and I am 62 so we have alot of experiance but last year was our first year after a 10
year absence and to say the least we are learning some new things. I have two 
questions, 1-what length snubbers do you recommend and 2-what effect do the
colors of the dipsey's and jet's have when the baits you are pulling are 6 ft. or so 
behind. Thanks


----------



## RBud1080

Just wanted to chime in on color of dipsy thing cause it seems to come up all the time. And I have this debate with gary every year and its funny. While he and most people on here will say black, black, and black. Same with fireline as well. I think the reason for this is that when your standing in the boat and you put that thing in the water, its least visible to us from our perspective. And we all want to be as "stealth" as possible. 

I like the white colored based dipsies because thats going to be least visible from a fishes perspective looking up. Think about it, whats the color of every basically every fish that swims in lake erie's belly, white. A fish is looking up at something against the sky, light colors will blend in better. Although I don't use it any more, this is the same reason I used crystal/white fireline when I used it. 

With all this being said, I don't think you are fooling any walleye by color of dipsy and it blending in. If a dipsy goes by a walleye, no matter what the color, he's gonna see it. I just like the most natural approach. I Liked Jim's point earlier that alot of times the walleye are just curious coming to check out a dipsy to see what it is then they see your presentation and hit it. I think this is very true as to why dipsys do well sometimes when other things don't.


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## blue dolphin

I dont think its a question of spooking them rather than how much it spooks them. A black dipsey reflects the least amount of light so if its sunny and a black dipseys in the water and it goes by a 10lb walleye he will not spook as much. If it were something reflective then i think he would spook more. So with the black dipsey and the 10 foot leader i think the combo of the two makes for a killer system. One thing i always did learning the way of the worm is running scenarios and experiments. It is because of this that i have come up with these opinions and theories. I can honestly say that in a day in day out basis if you run a black dipsey with a ten foot leader on one side and a different color dipsey on the other side and run same depths and colors i say the black dipsey on any given day outfishes the other 3 or 4 to one IMO. Good luck Gary


----------



## FreeByrdSteve

RBud1080 said:


> Just wanted to chime in on color of dipsy thing cause it seems to come up all the time. And I have this debate with gary every year and its funny. While he and most people on here will say black, black, and black. Same with fireline as well. I think the reason for this is that when your standing in the boat and you put that thing in the water, its least visible to us from our perspective. And we all want to be as "stealth" as possible.
> 
> I like the white colored based dipsies because thats going to be least visible from a fishes perspective looking up. Think about it, whats the color of every basically every fish that swims in lake erie's belly, white. A fish is looking up at something against the sky, light colors will blend in better. Although I don't use it any more, this is the same reason I used crystal/white fireline when I used it.
> 
> With all this being said, I don't think you are fooling any walleye by color of dipsy and it blending in. If a dipsy goes by a walleye, no matter what the color, he's gonna see it. I just like the most natural approach. I Liked Jim's point earlier that alot of times the walleye are just curious coming to check out a dipsy to see what it is then they see your presentation and hit it. I think this is very true as to why dipsys do well sometimes when other things don't.



I agree that "WE" probably make a bigger deal of dipsey color than matters in reality. Dipsey fishing is definitely not a "stealth" tactic. I have a big rubbermaid tub full of about every color dipsey out there and all of them have caught fish. Having said that - all the dipseys I've bought in the past couple years have been either black / clear or the "kelly lime green" - just in case it matters...LOL

Your point about the "white" bottom is an interesting perspective and makes sense!


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## ShutUpNFish

BaddFish said:


> Jim- Thanks for this forum!
> 
> I'm new to Erie fishing and will have a 20' Thompson in my possession in a couple months... I've got 4 line counter combos ready, fish finder, GPS, still need a couple good nets...and from the sounds of it a couple trolling bags.. I'm a muskie guy with the desire to fill my freezer!
> 
> My question is: What would you say the 2 most important things are for a rookie to get fish (walleye & perch) in the boat.
> 
> I've been talking with Larry (Dixie Chicken) about this quite extensively and he's got me set up with church boards and dipseys and I already have quite a few plugs and harnesses from fishing Mosquito for eyes.
> 
> I will probably be going out of Fairport mostly with the occasional Euclid visit.
> Thanks!


A few things IMO:

~Good advice/reports
~Dipsys
~Crawler harnesses and crawlers
~A good unit with mapping/gps
~Time
~Gas money

Let me know if you want to hook up anytime this summer! I primarily go out of Conneaut.


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## ShutUpNFish

blue dolphin said:


> I dont think its a question of spooking them rather than how much it spooks them. A black dipsey reflects the least amount of light so if its sunny and a black dipseys in the water and it goes by a 10lb walleye he will not spook as much. If it were something reflective then i think he would spook more. So with the black dipsey and the 10 foot leader i think the combo of the two makes for a killer system. One thing i always did learning the way of the worm is running scenarios and experiments. It is because of this that i have come up with these opinions and theories. I can honestly say that in a day in day out basis if you run a black dipsey with a ten foot leader on one side and a different color dipsey on the other side and run same depths and colors i say the black dipsey on any given day outfishes the other 3 or 4 to one IMO. Good luck Gary


Doesn't make much sense to me...Not saying you make no sense either, just to clarify BD....If you feel that the bright shiny dipsy might spook fish more or spook the fish more, then why would they make bright shiny lures to attract fish more? A theory is a theory, and I respect yours because I know you've been at this a long time and this may be what works best for you. However, someone else may have a theory stating that the shiny dipsys might attract a fish from far off more so, bringing it into the area to investigate and notice the presentation. Thus catching more fish that are scattered perhaps? For me, dipsys just get the baits down where I need them to be...when I reach into the box of dipsys, I could care less what color its going to be...I have every color you can imagine for watermelon to fire tiger to chrome...they all produce at one time or another. Some of the mates on board like to color coordinate their dipsy to presentation...I tell them "whatever floats your boat"...Bottom line is to have a good routine and be consistant to what works best for you. Have confidence in what you put out in the water and they will come. For me, dipsy color is nowhere near the difference between catching or not catching fish. Tight Lines.


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## Bob Why

I'll add my 2 cents for what it's worth. When it comes to Dipsy color I agree with the guys that say black. Though I do like Rbud1080's view on the white. As I have used the glow dipsys (which is the only white I can think of) with some good success. I've used about every color of Dipsy and Jet that is made. For the last few years everything I've use is black or clear. Although I fish with guys that use different colors. Even some that post and read on here and they still use the silver dipsys and catch fish. Though again I agree with BD that my black probably pull 2,3 or 4 to their 1. And also bigger fish. I think that at times the really shiny dipsys and jets will spoke more fish.


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## skinny

Thanks for all the replies! I can remember when all you needed to fill the cooler was a few erie dearies,some nuggets,wiggle warts and hot-n-tots. Times have changed!


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## Snook

I run both the black and purple dipsy's. One side of the boat black and the other purple. This helps when fishing with others because I know immediately which side of the boat the pole needs to be set on. Can't say I've seen any difference in the catch beteween the two colors but if the guys that fish almost everyday say that black is the color than I would listen


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## blue dolphin

ShutUpNFish said:


> Doesn't make much sense to me...Not saying you make no sense either, just to clarify BD....If you feel that the bright shiny dipsy might spook fish more or spook the fish more, then why would they make bright shiny lures to attract fish more? A theory is a theory, and I respect yours because I know you've been at this a long time and this may be what works best for you. However, someone else may have a theory stating that the shiny dipsys might attract a fish from far off more so, bringing it into the area to investigate and notice the presentation. Thus catching more fish that are scattered perhaps? For me, dipsys just get the baits down where I need them to be...when I reach into the box of dipsys, I could care less what color its going to be...I have every color you can imagine for watermelon to fire tiger to chrome...they all produce at one time or another. Some of the mates on board like to color coordinate their dipsy to presentation...I tell them "whatever floats your boat"...Bottom line is to have a good routine and be consistant to what works best for you. Have confidence in what you put out in the water and they will come. For me, dipsy color is nowhere near the difference between catching or not catching fish. Tight Lines.


I respect your opinions and I appreciate that you respect mine . If you dont think theres a difference then by all means run what color you want. I was just giving my opinions based on 800 hours a year on the water and 15 tourneys a year. That doesnt make my opinion right or wrong just backs its up on why I came up with it. I will tell you that when i started trolling dipseys on the big boat I had no idea about black until i saw just about every charter boat on D dock at spitzer have them and ive been a believer ever since. Take care Blue Dolphin


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## fishingguy

lol, I remember the paint your dipsy craze. I had flo. orange and rustoleum grey in the garage. Painted two of each and had a couple clears. In 06 and 07, it didn't matter much. Everything worked. If I was going to fish dipsy's now, I would opt for the clear ones I think.


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## BFG

> If you feel that the bright shiny dipsy might spook fish more or spook the fish more, then why would they make bright shiny lures to attract fish more?


It's sorta like would you rather someone shine a pen light in your eye or a 1,000,000 candle light power spotlight? 

Baitfish make tiny little shimmers....not big bright spots. 

I've tried a lot of different colors as well and black works great, as do clear slide divers. The longer leaders are easier to handle with the slide diver.


----------



## eyewannago

Hey Jim, good reading but still not helping cabin fever I have question about the mono the guys east are using (Blue Dolphin, Het, Papascot,etc are using now. What it is called and reviews and if you have ever run it? Joe


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## Jim Stedke

The guys who run Dipsys deeper than 40' can probaly run any dern color they want and never have a problem (unless the water is super clear). But above 30' I'm not going to run any color but black or clear.


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## Dawitner

Don't hear much about this so here is my rambling. I have a brother that swears by stick baits. I always start a spinner program becaues I got hooked on painting and building my own. If we start out catching fish I am OK but when it slows down my brother always wants to put a flourescent orange J11 or some other stick bait on. The problem is he almost always catches fish. Then he just looks at me and grins !!!!

Is anyone fishing them these days ?


----------



## Fish Scalper

Black dipseys work best because Walleye can see black better then most any other color dipsey's come in. Blue would be best if you ask me, but I haven't seen a blue dipsey. Purple would be as visible as black for sure. I don't believe dipseys spook fish at all, they bring em in, as do jets, inlines and small boards. No color should spook them, even silver as any light hitting the dipsey is more or less reflected up and away, the same direction Walleye feed, up. They mostly see the dark shady side, so again, black or any dark color is most visible against the bright lights above. Silver, I think would tend to disappear from below looking up into the light and so actually lacks the ability to attract like the darker colors and why silver doesn't produce as well, it has nothing to do with spooking them. Not as many walleye come on Silver back spinner blades or spoons West of Cleveland for the same reason. I don't think there is any aspect of trolling for walleyes that has any real element of stealth to it with all this gear we pull. Cranks on a flat line or big board come closest to me since they provide both the diving device and the bait all in one. Casters and drifters by all reports had a tougher year then trollers last year. I know the Amish were stumped a lot more then usual. One reason might be they're not pulling all these noisy, clumsy, diving devices that attract fish to the boat. With fish more spread out, the more noise your tackle makes, the better chance you have of calling them over for a look if you ask me.


----------



## BHAPPY

What do you guys run and why?
Is there a time of year that you would run 
crankbaits over worm harnesses?
I have heard that in the summer worm harnesses out perform cranbaits. And in the spring and fall, the opposite is true.
What are your thoughts?
And if you could, what's the approximate speed that you
would be running each?
Thanks all in advance for your time.
Brian


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## blue dolphin

Joe the Mono That i use is called Maxima. K gone got me hooked last year and i am defintley hooked wears like iron and last a long time for what its worth. 

Bhappy april and mid october on ill run cranks for sure Reef runners and huskies speed in the spring can be .8 to 1.5ish in the early fall 1.8 to 2.0 and as the water cools 1.2 to 1.5 seems to do the trick but everyone has there sweet spot. 

Harnesses on my boat are run at all other times for the most part maybe a crank or two or a three way if there super negative. speed can be .8 to 1.0 early and all the way up to 2.2 with willows in the summer. i would say the 1.5 with colorados indianas and hatchets from 60 degrees of water temp on up would be my go to program. Good luck Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## Jim Stedke

BHAPPY, Ice out to 47 degree water - trolling cranks in deep water, hair jigs on the reefs, or ice fishing out of a boat over soft bottom

around 47 degree water temps up to 60 degree the harnesses start working but so do spoons, and cranks will still work as well.

60 - highest water temp then back down 60 in the fall catch them any way you want. I believe cranks will catch the larger fish, and eliminate most of the trash. But here's where harnesses are gaining in popularity. 

60 degree to 47 degree water, all methods will still work, but weight assisted cranks 
go to the head of the class for big fish.

46 degree to ice up way more fish are caught on cranks 

That's the way I look at it, others have differing thoughts. 

Good question . And good luck.


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## eyewannago

Thanks Gary, What are you guys doing up so late if you worked a little harder you would be able to go to bed earlier I guess you never used Maxima Jim I may have to give it a try but I have never had a problem with 12lb Big Game it will probably come down to the almighty dollar. Thanks Joe


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## Jim Stedke

Maxima used to be what I thought of as a large diameter and premium priced line. Maybe things have changed. Big Game is still hard to beat, but I know there are longer lived lines. I like being able to change line on a whim, so I'll likely stay with big Game.


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## sea oxx

What size and style of hooks do you guys use for your single and double hooked casting harnesess?


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## fishingguy

I like the big game also. Price is right in bulk, and seems to take a good beating. I changed my line 3 times last year on each rod. You are bound to get some twists, when I do, I strip off 100 yds and refill. It's tough, inexpensive and I like always having fresh line on my reels.


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## K gonefishin

Maxima is a premium line and it's actually a copolymer line, unless you buy it in bulk spools (like I do) it also comes at a premium price. I was actually corrected on this yesterday on the fact it's a copolymer line which actually has less stretch than mono and made a little different, which is fine by me.

I think TOO much stretch can be a bad thing..whatever Maxima is, I have found nothing to be more abrasion resist, strong as iron like Gary said, spools great, easy to work with, Ultragreen is the perfect color for Erie, incredible knot strength etc. It's the bomb no other way to say it you won't be dissapointed, and if you switch from braid you WILL land more fish, without a doubt in my mind.


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## preacherman

i use a single 2/0 offset worm hook on both single and double. i like the way the crawler trails and have not found a drop off since switching from a single hook, treble hook set-up. doesn't get caught in net either


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## Hetfieldinn

I've been running 12# Big Game on my board rods for the past two seasons. The same line lasted two seasons without a break off. Every couple trips out I would strip ten yards off the spool. I also use 20# Big Game on my downrigger rods for salmon fishing. At about $8 for 1200 yards of 12#, you can't beat it.


----------



## boatnut

Hetfieldinn said:


> I've been running 12# Big Game on my board rods for the past two seasons. The same line lasted two seasons without a break off. Every couple trips out I would strip ten yards off the spool. I also use 20# Big Game on my downrigger rods for salmon fishing. At about $8 for 1200 yards of 12#, you can't beat it.


Steve,
just curious , does stripping line off every few outings throw the calibration of your line counters off??


----------



## Hetfieldinn

It might make a difference at the end of the year, but I'm sure the difference is negligible. I never calibrate my reels. I put 300 yards of line on each of them and have at it. I use the reels to fish with, not build churches.


----------



## boatnut

Hetfieldinn said:


> It might make a difference at the end of the year, but I'm sure the difference is negligible. I never calibrate my reels. I put 300 yards of line on each of them and have at it. I use the reels to fish with, not build churches.


measure twice, cut once!  Honestly though, I think I calibrated mine once when I first started using line counters. Now, I just try to make sure the spool is filled to or near capacity. It's all about repeatability anyways.


----------



## eyewannago

Thanks guys I will probably stick with 12lb Big Game I have a 100 yards of 30lb backing and put on 200 yards of 12lb change after spring and summer fishing and put new on in the fall Joe


----------



## sea oxx

Thanks preacherman
You use a 2\0 hook on what they call a mayfly rig or weapon?


----------



## jshbuckeye

This question may belong in the tackle section but im sure someone here has an answer. The line counters you clip on your fishing pole and run the line through, I think they are made by rapala and shakespear, are they fairly accurate?


----------



## Jim Stedke

jshbuckeye, The clip on line counters, require constant pressure on the line wrapped around the pulley. This is nearly impossible to do and they are inaccurate because of it. The faster you troll the more accurate they are, and the slower you troll the less.


----------



## preacherman

no use much smaller hook on those


----------



## eyesman_01

jshbuckeye, I used those clip-on Rapala's before I bought my reels. I agree with Jim, they're pretty much worthless for what we use them for. I never had any luck with them staying engaged, and you might as well give it up if you're using braid because it just slips right through, doesn't grip the pulley to turn the counter.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Hooks for harnesses: This is such a varied subject that I'm only going to say what I use and why. 

I tie 2 types of harnesses: 1 for in-line wts, and the other for behind Dipsy or Jets. The hooks, beads, clevises are identical on both. Only the leader length changes, and I know I could tie them all 6', but I like shorties for behind divers because they store easier. 

I use a #4 round bend straight point short shank treble on the rear, usually red, just like a replacement hook for a large crank. Premium extra sharp hook, what ever manufacture you like. Above it 3-1/2 to 4-1/2"s I tie a #2 octopus red w/ upturned eye. A very typical hook for harnesses, maybe 1 size larger than some use, but these harnesses are used on Erie in open water for big fish.

My leaders are 20 or 25# Fluorocarbon leader material, and the clevises are quick change, w/the little barb to reduce blade lose.

I have a couple of these that have survived through 10 days of continuous use and show little if any wear.

I'm not saying this is the right way to tie harnesses, only that this works for me. This is a to each his own deal, and I don't pretend to know as much as Gary, Kevin, or those that use harnesses as their go-to presentation all summer.

Good luck.


----------



## sea oxx

Thanks Jim
All the info. from last years seminar helped us out alot using dipsys and bottom bouncers. I think this year we are going to give the Offshore boards a shot.


----------



## FishON32

Jim, Gary, Kevin
Last year was my first year trolling Erie. I didn't have the funds to spend a fortune so started off small and went with running a dipsy/spoon & dipsy/willow program. This year I'm going to try inline boards/weight/colorado program. Can I use my same rods, reels, and lines or should I take my tax return to rodmakers and get 4 new rigs for inline trolling?

I currently have:
4 Daiwa Wilderness 8' med/heavy rods
4 Daiwa Accudepth 27 LC reels spooled with backing and 30# powerpro braid

I purchased these setups at rodmakers and got a good deal on the whole packages. I need to buy boards and weights so I'm thinking If I have to buy eveything I want to do it all together.


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## Papascott

Those rods will definitely work. Might be a little stiff causing some lost fish and it will be a little tougher to read the Rods when compared to running dipseys, due to their. Stiffness but they can be used no doubt.q


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## Jim Stedke

FishON32, The Colorado, In-line wts. is a slow program. Do you have the ability to troll under 2mph? That's pretty important for the larger Colorados. 

You might try topping the reels off with mono, and using those that you have, but my first inclination is to say get separate rods.


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## Hetfieldinn

I agree with PapaScott. There will most likely be some lost fish with heavier action rods. A remedy for this would be to carry a spool of mono on the boat. When you want to switch from a Dipsy program to a board program, tie on a 30-50 foot leader of the mono to the braid using a back to back uni-knot.


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## FishON32

Thanks guys maybe I'll just buy new reels and spool them with mono. The 12# big game mentioned earlier, is that Berkley? How much backing and how much line would ou spool on the 27 LC's

If I choose to just tie 50' of mono to the braid what type of knot would you tie and with that much would I be attaching my board on the mono or braid?

If I buy rods what should I get (not the cheapest but a good price) from rodmakers?


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## FishON32

Jim, I also have a 20hp kicker and I'm getting some 22" amish bags too so I'll be able to go slow with the kicker or the main.

Oh about how much seperation do you guys have between boards I'll be running 2 or 3 rods a side.


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## Hetfieldinn

FishON32 said:


> Thanks guys maybe I'll just buy new reels and spool them with mono. The 12# big game mentioned earlier, is that Berkley? How much backing and how much line would ou spool on the 27 LC's
> 
> If I choose to just tie 50' of mono to the braid what type of knot would you tie and with that much would I be attaching my board on the mono or braid?
> 
> If I buy rods what should I get (not the cheapest but a good price) from rodmakers?


Big Game is a Berkely product. 1200 yards of 12# runs about $8, so I wouldn't (and don't) bother with backing. I always use a back to back uni-knot to join two lines. Whether or not you attach the board to the mono will depend on your lead, or amount of line behind the board. I don't know what brands of rods The RodMakers Shop carries, so I can't help much there, but Gander Mountain has a board specific rod that is hard to beat at $29 each.


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## FishON32

Thanks Het! Is that rod a Gander brand (guide series) and does it was "board" or something on the blank?


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## SELL-FISH

FishON32 said:


> Thanks guys maybe I'll just buy new reels and spool them with mono. The 12# big game mentioned earlier, is that Berkley? How much backing and how much line would ou spool on the 27 LC's
> 
> If I choose to just tie 50' of mono to the braid what type of knot would you tie and with that much would I be attaching my board on the mono or braid?
> 
> If I buy rods what should I get (not the cheapest but a good price) from rodmakers?


Wait for the Rodmakers show in March to buy they have awesome deals and If i'm not mistaken they will line you up for free or at a big disscount.


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## Hetfieldinn

FishON32 said:


> Thanks Het! Is that rod a Gander brand (guide series) and does it was "board" or something on the blank?


Yes. It's a maroon Gander Mt Guide series rod that says 'Planer Board' on the blank by the handle. They also telescope down.


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## FishON32

When in March? Is there info on they're site?


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## SELL-FISH

Its normally the middle of march give them a call.


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## Get Fish

Rodmakers spring sale is March 20th & 21st. Got those dates from Ray while talking to him at the boat show.


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## blue dolphin

Fishon there show is March 20 21st ill be there and help you out with what ever you need if you want you can call me at 216-849-4954. Talk to ya Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## FishON32

Thanks guys I'll be there for sure. Gary I sent you a PM


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## Kino

Jim, I noticed you made a brief statement about cranks and weights in the fall. What is some typical programs and weights of snap weights and speeds you all are pulling your RR's in the fall. I got to come up and fish a few days on the first of november. We did'nt set any numbers records but we caught some SUPER quality fish in the huron area. Do you ever try snap weights in the late spring or summer on cranks?? I thought of trying maybe a hard vibrating crank behind a snap weight in the summer but the harnesses worked to well!


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## blue dolphin

Ill let jim give ya the long explanation. but i used to run a ton of weighted reef runner programs with one and two ounce about 20-30 ft in front from summer to fall very good program for sure and it caught some tankers. Hope all is well havent heard from you in a while. Dolphin


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## Jim Stedke

Kino, Snap wts. are tanglers. You need to take special precautions to minimize (eliminate) tangles. With small bds. that means wt. the inside board only, or put the heavier wts. on the inside. With big boards that means if you're going to add wts., add the same wt to all lines one the side. 

Because of this in the summer and early fall on the charter boat, we add 2 ozs to one side and 3 ozs on the other. The wts are attached only 6' ahead of the lure, with a rubber band, and when netting, you need not remove the wt. Speeds are as variable as the weather, as slow as 2 up to 3 or faster. 

Depth gains are very speed and drop length dependant. At 50' drop length, a 2oz wt,
you'll gain as much as 20', or as little as 8'. At 50'back a 3 oz wt, will get you from 30' to as little as 12'. So for every 1/4 oz, you'll gain from 1 to 2.5 feet of depth. 

We use them to gain depth and reach deeper fish with Reef Runners, but you also get a vertical movement on the lures as turns, speed changes and steering corrections have their effects. 

Nov. is a little late as the fish are usually way up in the top 12' by then, but before they come up, in Aug. - Oct. they shine. 

Spring: When the fish leave the reefs, and are still fairly high north of the reefs and west of the Bass Islands (May - early June) is a good time to add 1-1/2 or 2oz wts to stick baits. 

As I said earlier, adding wt. is a adding a potential tangling problem. To minimize this, after a hook up, get pressure on the fish, and wait, from 15 to 30 seconds before starting to crank in the fish. This gives the struggling fish time to fall back and rise up enough to clear inside lines. Also turning the boat away from the hooked fish 15 or 20 degrees will increase separation. 

If you're in a turn, and hook up on the slow side, you'll want to pull out of the turn, before start to bring the fish in. If you can't pull out because of traffic, you'll have to let the fish hang, until you can. 

I HATE TANGLES !!!!!!! And if wts weren't a major benefit, I would not run them.

I hope this helps, and good luck.

LOL Thanks Gary.


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## blue dolphin

Jim i could have explained it like that well said lol


----------



## BaddFish

Hetfieldinn said:


> Big Game is a Berkely product. 1200 yards of 12# runs about $8, so I wouldn't (and don't) bother with backing. I always use a back to back uni-knot to join two lines. Whether or not you attach the board to the mono will depend on your lead, or amount of line behind the board. I don't know what brands of rods The RodMakers Shop carries, so I can't help much there, but Gander Mountain has a board specific rod that is hard to beat at $29 each.


Het or Anyone,
You've convinced me to go with the Big Game line.... my question is: do you run planers and dipseys on it?
Or do you have separate rods with heavier line to run dipseys?

Everybody seems to run a min. of 30 lb down to the dipsey and then 10lb from the dipsey to the lure...

thanks!


----------



## Jim Stedke

Baddfish, 30 - 50 # superbraid is the norm for Dipsys, but we use 20 - 25 leaders to the spoons, harnesses or stickbaits (as do most who fish where the silver bullets [steelhead] roam).

The Big Game is for board rods.

Jets can be run with either one, but with the new Walker product (like a jet but with a Dipsy like trip mechanism), I'd suggest superbraid, if you have a notion to try them.

We got through Jan., now if we can get through Feb., it'l be time for "COME ON SPRING".


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## BaddFish

thx Jim....
It looks like I'll just keep 2 rods for boards and 2 for dipseys.

2 of my 4 rods have line counters... the other 2 are basic Penn's and I planned on putting a line counter on the rod- but from the sounds of that- its worthless..

If you HAD to choose... would you use the two line counters for the dipseys? 


I may have to steal one of my muskie trollling reels once in while and just use that for dipseys as well they got 65lb powerpro on them... I can't stand having to "guess"


----------



## Workdog

Jim,
In April, when you are trolling off of the reefs, what size of stickbaits do you like best? A Husky Jerk 14 or 12 size? Any favorite colors that you could mention? I'd like to try it this year and need to do a little shopping.


----------



## fishingguy

Before I got line counter reels, I measured line out by the amount of passes the level wind guide made. Put the guide all the way to one side, than just pull out line until the guide makes it over to the other side. Measure amount you pulled out. Multiply that by number of passes and you have a ball park estimate.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Baddfish, I'd use the line counters on the Dipsys. They are quick and easy to adjust,so they get adjusted alot and the line counters help you keep tabs on them.

For the boards, measure how much line comes off the reel with 1 pass of the level wind, likely between 6 and 10feet, then use that to determine how many passes you need to get to your drop length and depth. When you get the lure to the appropriate distance out wrap a small rubber band (size 10) on the line just ahead of the reel. 

When the rod fires, just crank the band right onto the reel, and when you reset, just go to the band. We did this for several years before getting line counters.

You'll make fewer changes to the board rods, then the Dipsys, and when you change just attach a new rubber band.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Workdog, Hey, just call me, I'll bring all the good colors!!! LOL

My go to colors are: Bubble Gum, Eriedescent, Pearl Ghost, Eriely Naked, Emerald Shiner, Cranberry Crusher, Barbie, Pink Panties, Orange Peel, Chartreuse brown back orange belly.

I could go on, but you get the picture. 

Lures are 800s, 700s, deep & shallow Rouges and deep & shallow Huskys. I like the larger lures, but have done well on the 1 size done also.

Hey !! Call me! I'll go along if at all possible.


----------



## Workdog

Jim Stedke said:


> Workdog, Hey, just call me, I'll bring all the good colors!!! LOL
> My go to colors are: Bubble Gum, Eriedescent, Pearl Ghost, Eriely Naked, Emerald Shiner, Cranberry Crusher, Barbie, Pink Panties, Orange Peel, Chartreuse brown back orange belly. I could go on, but you get the picture.
> Lures are 800s, 700s, deep & shallow Rouges and deep & shallow Huskys. I like the larger lures, but have done well on the 1 size done also.
> Hey !! Call me! I'll go along if at all possible.


Jim, I'll just have to take you up on that offer if it works out! Thanks for the info!


----------



## Walleye007

Hey Jim - Spoons or Stick Baits for Lake Erie Spring Walleye Trolling? Which method is preferred for trolling Lake Erie in the Spring? I have about a dozen Reef Runners that I bought in the Fall. I used them with success out of Huron with Off Shore Boards. I recently bought a good handful of Stringer Spoons for the spring to be used w/ Dispys and Jets. However, I'm not sure if I need the spoons. Your thoughts? Tips. Advice, etc.

Thanks for all the great tips here so far.


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## Jim Stedke

Walleye007, Reply 167 above referrs to deep lures (cranks) and shallow lures (stick baits), that are my choice for trolling lures from ice out to the end of April. Once the water gets up to 47 degrees, worm harnesses kick in. Once young of the year show up (mid May or so) the spoons get going. Hope this helps. good luck


----------



## Walleye007

Jim Stedke said:


> Walleye007, Reply 167 above referrs to deep lures (cranks) and shallow lures (stick baits), that are my choice for trolling lures from ice out to the end of April. Once the water gets up to 47 degrees, worm harnesses kick in. Once young of the year show up (mid May or so) the spoons get going. Hope this helps. good luck


Thank you Jim!


----------



## BeerBatter

Looking for what works good for jigging in the spring. I have some real decent spinning outfits. Need to know what type of line most use for the jig bite. Mono vs braid? Saw a post about where to buy jigs from Het and can't find it now? Thanks for this post? awesome to keep everything fresh. Can't wait till Ice off !!! Who uses blade baits how heavy and any specific colors Where to buy? I have some, I suppose they will work fine as long as I can stay vertical and I can feel them. Any one use 1/4 and 3/8 jigs for the jig bite? Thanks for all your help.


----------



## FishON32

What size ball bearing swivels and barrell swivels should be used on harnesses? Specifically to attach rednek weights on the main line then the weights to the harnesses. I have some stuff in the garage and need to see if they will work. Oh almost forgot is color a big issue, brass, nickle, black?


----------



## Jim Stedke

BeerBatter, Most guys like a 6' med action rod, with a super braid line (14/6). jigs 5/8- 3/4 oz Purple, John Deere & Butterscatch with trailer.

Blades, Ciicadas, Vibees, Silver Bullets, and there are some locally made ones also. Gold/Chartruse, Blackpurple, Silver/blue. Some add a curltail for bulk. Size 1/2 - 1 oz depending on wind and depth.

Where to buy Happy Hooker a mile or 2 west of the cooling tower.

And yes some guys like smaller jigs but many really good fishermen want the heavier jigs to pound the bottom. Lighter jigs and the longer hang time along with being easier for the fish to suck in sometimes proves deadly (especially in a tuff bite).

Go get em. Be safe and have fun.


----------



## Jim Stedke

FishOn32, The larger blades that are popular with the in-line wt guys demand a ball bearing swivel.
It can be a small one (around 1/2" long). Be aware that the cheap ball bearing swivels have been know to come apart, so I get the Sampos. I don't want to that 36" walleye to leave with the back half of my swivel, so I send the money for the good ones.

Color is as big an issue as the fishermen make it, and right now it is Huge!! Custom painted blades, glows, UVs, same color fronts w/dif. colored backs, all the spoon colors plus many more and new colors every day. So be prepared.

I Like diamond cut copper blades that are embossed and have texture on both sides, and I colorize them with Magic Markers. The fish don't mind my cheap a$$ approach.

Good luck


----------



## FishON32

Thanks Jim. As far as color I was refering to the the actual color of the ball bearing swivels and barrel swivels on the harnesses and the in-line weights. I have some nickle and black ones from bass pro. They were the pro series ones that swivel in both directions. I have size 3 here is the link of the swivels. I have a bunch and they seem pretty stout.
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...0005_100000000_100010000?cmCat=CROSSSELL_DEPT


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## FishON32

I'm going to be making my own harnesses after Gary & Kevins seminar on the 20th. I'm going to buy some blades most likely from rodmakers at their spring sale. I've read and experienced paint chipping from stinger spoons, is this a problem with blades? What I wanted to do was before assembling the harnesses I was going to bring all the blades to my shop and put a clear powder coat over them. Will this effect the way they run or attract fish. I can put a high gloss, satin, or flat clear.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Garys going to say black swivels,and that's fine. 

I've not heard complaints about blades chipping or peeling, but a gloss clear coat wouldn't hurt. Unless it adds significant wt. Which I doubt it would.

You might add glow eyes from Witch Craft to a few blades for dingy water before you clear coat them.

Good luck.


----------



## BaddFish

Excellent Jim! Thx!


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## BaddFish

Jim Stedke said:


> Baddfish, I'd use the line counters on the Dipsys. They are quick and easy to adjust,so they get adjusted alot and the line counters help you keep tabs on them.
> 
> For the boards, measure how much line comes off the reel with 1 pass of the level wind, likely between 6 and 10feet, then use that to determine how many passes you need to get to your drop length and depth. When you get the lure to the appropriate distance out wrap a small rubber band (size 10) on the line just ahead of the reel.
> 
> When the rod fires, just crank the band right onto the reel, and when you reset, just go to the band. We did this for several years before getting line counters.
> 
> You'll make fewer changes to the board rods, then the Dipsys, and when you change just attach a new rubber band.


Excellent Jim! Thx!


----------



## FishON32

Thanks Jim, Gary, Kevin, Het, and anyone I missed taking the time to answer?'s. This has been a big help for a newbie. I also read thru the online seminar threads from past years which answered a lot of my ?'s too.


----------



## BFG

Yep..I'll tell ya' what...there is so much good information in these threads over the past three years that the learning curve for a total newbie should be shortened significantly.

That's HUGE....especially at $4.00 a gallon


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## Jim Stedke

FishON32, My answers very often assume a certain amount a knowledge, and I only get real simplistic or detailed when answering follow up questions. Otherwise responses would seem long and rambling. 

Never hesitate to ask for clarification, if needed.

Thanks and good fishing. JIM


----------



## Hetfieldinn

FishON32 said:


> I'm going to be making my own harnesses after Gary & Kevins seminar on the 20th. I'm going to buy some blades most likely from rodmakers at their spring sale. I've read and experienced paint chipping from stinger spoons, is this a problem with blades? What I wanted to do was before assembling the harnesses I was going to bring all the blades to my shop and put a clear powder coat over them. Will this effect the way they run or attract fish. I can put a high gloss, satin, or flat clear.


If they are Silver Streak blades, I wouldn't bother. I have a tone of them, and have only had a chipping problem with one of them, and that was after catching about thirty kajillion fish on it. If they are Stinger's blades, go ahead and order a 55 gallon drum of paint. You'll need it.


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## Hetfieldinn

BeerBatter said:


> Looking for what works good for jigging in the spring. I have some real decent spinning outfits. Need to know what type of line most use for the jig bite. Mono vs braid? Saw a post about where to buy jigs from Het and can't find it now?


You can get the jigs here:
http://www.captainhookstackle.com/

For jigging, I like to use 8# Fireline Crystal. I attach a six foot leader of 6# florocarbon via a micro-swivel. The floro leader does make a difference, and if you don't use the inline micro swivel, you'll get line twist like no ones business.


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## Hetfieldinn

FishON32 said:


> What size ball bearing swivels and barrell swivels should be used on harnesses?



The smaller, the better. A #2 cross lock snap is perfect to connect to your main line. I like to use very small roller swivels, like the ones here, third one down. I use black whenever possible. Craig at Erie Outfitters has these in black.

http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/Search/swivels.aspx


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## blue dolphin

Nick Rodmakers also have swivels. I used to use a Micro swivel by Coleman that they have in the Steelhead section by the counter. After we left last night i stopped up there and Spro makes one that is stronger and smaller and is black that Gary up there said he used for steelhead in the river and say there way better so im going to try those.Being as stealth as possible is key especially is clearer water. Dolphin


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## FishON32

Thanks again guys for the great info. This years tax return is going to be spent really quick


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## BFG

Spro swivels are awesome. Expensive little devils...but awesome.


----------



## preacherman

ok, simple question, i hope. i heard a little of Jim and his brother's presentation at the show. They were talking about leader set-ups and using a ball bearing snap on both ends. i've had others tell me that you should use a snap lock swivel when running cranks and spoons and ballbearing snap when running harnesses. i would liek to have a uniform set-up, if possible. for all my flouro leaders I can use a swivel on both ends regardless of what I am running, correct? I tie all my harnesses colorado and double willow with 6' leaders. right now i loop the end. that's fine when running off bottom bouncers. when using inlines or dipsies would it be better to use a snap swivel when running harnesses? these are the kind of things i obsess about over the winter. thanks


----------



## preacherman

ok, simple question, i hope. i heard a little of Jim and his brother's presentation at the show. They were talking about leader set-ups and using a ball bearing snap on both ends. i've had others tell me that you should use a snap lock when running cranks and spoons and ballbearing snap when running harnesses. i would liek to have a uniform set-up, if possible. for all my flouro leaders I can use a swivel on both ends regardless of what I am running, correct? I tie all my harnesses colorado and double willow with 6' leaders. right now i loop the end. that's fine when running off bottom bouncers. when using inlines or dipsies would it be better to use a snap swivel when running harnesses? these are the kind of things i obsess about over the winter. thanks


----------



## Jim Stedke

preacherman, Yes you can use a ball bearing snap swivel on both ends of your leaders. Some guys tie their harnesses with a swivel only because most in line wts come w/ a snap swivel, but they aren't good enough to keep the leaders from getting spun up if the harness rolls. 

For clarity are you using a leader and a 6' harness?? Maybe I'm confused. 

In any event all leaders w/ballbearing snap swivels in both ends is fine.

Good luck.


----------



## rockytop

jim one question on big boards or little boards. dont want a debate this is better or that is better. i use both and want your opinion when to use one or the other. things like lake conditions, near shore off shore rough water lots of boat traffic. one more last year i ran 700 rr with inline weights mid april till may. when do the 800 really start to get fish. rockytop (BOB)


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## Jim Stedke

rockytop, Big boards are better when 6 or more rods. Bigger boats, rougher water, faster speeds, less congestion. When you have the ability to fish up-wind.

Little boards are better suited for 4 rods, but 6 works w/ experience, The need to pull lines and run up-wind, smaller boats, slower presentations, Night fishing.

I've won 3 April1st tournaments pulling 800s, deep Huskys, and deep Rouges. So I've got to say the 800s start working at ice out. 

To me the 700s w/wt, do better when the fish start leaving the reef areas. But hey, if it ain't broke don't fix it!!! Keep doing what works for you. Confidence is a beautiful thing.

Hope this helps, Good luck.


----------



## rockytop

jim didnt mean to sound harsh about not wanting a debate about the boards. but almost everyone i ask that question, they are dead set one way or the other. like ford vs chevy, i try and keep a open mind. i dont care how or what work. as long as that coolers geting crowded. thanks for the fine answer very good explanation. rockytop (BOB)


----------



## preacherman

jim, i tie all my harnesses, colorado and double willow with a 6's foot flourocarbon leader it just seems one less attatchment point if you have to hook an 12 or18" willow to a 6' leader. if i do the ball bearing swivels off the harnesses would it be a good idea to take the snap that comes on a bottom bouncer and just attatch harness swivel to the bouncer arm? i agree that the swivels they put on many keel weights don't seem very substantal. so i usually take them off or lose them in the first place. thanks for the advice, now i have a project for next week.


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## blue dolphin

Preacherman i dont think you need to take the snap off the bottom bouncer itself. I use northland bouncers usually and ive never had one break or give yet. Probably just jinxed myself lol. as long as you have a good barrel swivel on the end of you s 6 ft snelled harness you are good to go for sure. Good luck Dolphin


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## preacherman

Gary, i'm just trying to make it as simple as possible. i'm thinking if i tie all my harnesses with ball bearing snap swiwels then i'm good to attatch them to bbs, dipsies, inlines or jets. then if like jim said i'm 'allowed' to use ball bearing snaps on both ends my spoon and crank leaders i just got one basic st up. what do you tink. thanks tom h


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## BFG

I would not put a ball bearing swivel on the nose of a walleye trolling spoon. But that is just me being me. 

Snap only in my happy little world.


----------



## moondog5814

What is the basic difference between using braided line or mono when running inline boards? My buddy and I just started getting into using the boards last year and we have 30lb. Powerpro on our linecounters. Hetfield gave us a lesson on the boards last year and my brain was in overload watching a pro in action.....didn't even remember what kind of line was on his reels.


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## blue dolphin

Preacherman if that makes your setup easier then by all means do it that way .There are mores ways than one to skin a cat. I will say i like a 10ft leader on my dipseys rather than 6 when trolling harnesses. Spoons are a different story six is perfect.

As far as the difference between braid and mono. I was a braid guy for 7 years till last year and now I run mono and im a happy camper. I like that mono is more forgiving when reeling in a big fish, when your in rough water the boards dont surge as much and come out of the water etc. I use 10lb maxima which was a recommendation from K- gone and all i can say im glad i switched. good luck Gary


----------



## BFG

But just to be clear though Gary...you are still running braided mainline for your dipseys...correct?


----------



## sea oxx

How long of a leader do you guys suggest behind an inline weight for a spoon?
Thanks


----------



## blue dolphin

BFG said:


> But just to be clear though Gary...you are still running braided mainline for your dipseys...correct?


Yes sorry BFG dipseys i use powerpro 40/10 with a black or clear dipsey and a ten foot leader. My board rods are the mono rods. thanks for bringing that up. Gary


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## Jim Stedke

sea Oxx, All my leaders are 6' (except those that are 10' for Geneva)


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## Jim Stedke

Moondog, Mono stretches 25 - 30% superbraid less than 2%, that means you must backoff the drags, and be way more careful with the fish to prevent rip-offs. It also affects lure action, and probably most important, ...It affects what a lure does when a walleye pushes on it, or messes with it. The lure on braid upsets and stops wobbling while the stretch in the mono allows the wobble to continue.

More hook ups and fewer rip-offs is why we went back to mono.

Hope I got that explained OK, If not ask a follow up. Good luck Jim


----------



## Walleye007

Jim - I'm outfitting my boat for Erie trolling. What trolling rods do you recommend? I'll be pulling in-line off shore boards when using RR's and using dipsies/jets for spoons and harnesses. Many of the dipsy rods are offered at 9' to 10'6." Do I need that long of rod for trolling for walleyes?

Also, could someone offer advice for good worm harnesses? I know many of you make your own, but where can I buy decent ones pre-made? Are there some general guidelines as to what kind (Indiana, Colorado, etc.) to use under certain conditions?


----------



## Kino

Okay, got another one for ya guys! Last year during my second trip up, fishing around Kellys on memorial day weekend, it was so hot that my partner and I could NOT run 4 rods! We was pulling harnesses and the only problem we had was out of every 10 fish or so, it would be a walleye! So, I guess that my question would be how the heck do you guys get rid of the small white bass and drum and still catch walleye!


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Kino said:


> So, I guess that my question would be how the heck do you guys get rid of the small white bass and drum and still catch walleye!


Try different things. Kick the speed up a bit, switch to larger baits, change your leads, ect. Sometimes you gotta just pack up and move and get out of the 'non target' fish.

I was up at the islands last Memorial Day weekend, along with GotOne and BuckeyeHunter. The fishing was on fire. The only non target species I caught was a steelie. If you're fishing for walleyes, and all your catching is trash fish and don't change your presentation (speed, baits, or area), you might as well be targeting trash fish.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Walleye007, Most guys trolling Erie are using rods that cost around $30.00. Okuma, Shimano, Diawa, Bass Pro, Shakespear, and many others make good rods, inthis price range. 

Go to a good trolling shop, and let them show you what they'd recommend. In Cleveland I'd suggest the Rod Maker Shoppe, in Avon Erie Outfitters, in Vermilion Bad Boyz, in Port Clinton Fisherman's Warf. 

We use 8 - 81/2' rods for Dipsys, and I see no purpose or need for longer rods. 

You'll want rods with soft readable tips and lots of power in the bottom 1/3rd. many med or med heavy rigger rods work well. You'll need rods rated for up to 20 or 25 # test line. 

Most importantly get all the rods exactly alike, same length, same action. It makes reading the rods so much easier.

If you can spend a little extra, get a little better reel, you'll be happier in the long run.

Good luck, and have fun.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Walleye007 said:


> Many of the dipsy rods are offered at 9' to 10'6." Do I need that long of rod for trolling for walleyes?
> 
> Also, could someone offer advice for good worm harnesses? I know many of you make your own, but where can I buy decent ones pre-made? Are there some general guidelines as to what kind (Indiana, Colorado, etc.) to use under certain conditions?


Large rods are way to cumbersome for smaller boats. I know a few very good Erie fishermen that use the Ugly Stik CAL1100 7'er for both Dipsys and boards. They work great, and are indestructible. They cost about $30 each.

Craig at Erie Outfitters sells pre-made harnesses in all the favorite colors. Call him, and he'll be more than happy to mail them to you. As far as blades go, I pulled Colorados all but one time last year.


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## Jim Stedke

Kino, Put on cranks and speed up. If the sheephead are thick, the walleyes won't be there anyway, so move. 

Often you can see a change in the marks on the fish finder, when get out of the trash and into the walleyes. And often they will be right beside each other.

Good luck.


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## Walleye007

Thanks guys. Your input is greatly appreciated.


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## eyesman_01

I'm using the 9' Shimano TDR's on an 18 foot Starcraft, and sometimes I think they are too long. I use them for both dipseys and my big boards. Kicking and screaming, I just bought a set of (4) Off Shore boards on ebay for under $110 new. So I'll see how they handle with those come April. OH yeh, I'm using the Diawa Accudepth Plus reels with 30# Power Pro. The set-ups have served me well the past few years. I see no reason to change til they wear out.


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## Rippin Lips

I see alot of people switching to mono on board rods.Besides the cost why not just use flurocarbon.We all use it for spinner rigs already.


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## Jim Stedke

Most Fluorocarbons are copolymer lines, these have tendancy to stretch less then extruded lines. In my mind that would reduce the main benefit of mono.


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## Jim Stedke

Eyesman 01, Longer softer rods help cushion the fish and reduce rip offs. When I'm running fireline, with cranks (which I only do early) I use 9' rods also.


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## Walleye007

Jim - I've been learning a tremendous amount from your on-line seminars. I went back and checked out some of the post from previous years. Excellent info. 

Another question...Could you walk us beginner trollers through a general set up for pulling worm harnesses? I'm a little confused on how to add weight to the line. Also, can they be pulled behind off shore boards as well as dipsies/jets? 

And back to rods...any ideas on a do-it-all trolling rod? Or at least that will get the job done with both dipsies & in-line boards?


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## Jim Stedke

Shimano TDR med downrigger rod 8', Okuma 7'lead core rod, Shakespear Uglystick 1100 7'med. are all rods that will work. 

Dipsy rods do a tremendous amount of work, and are usually 1 step heavier in the line ratings than board rods. But these the rods mentioned are good compromses.

The simplest way to pull spinners with wts, is in line wts that attach to the main line and have a snap on the back to attach you 6' harness. Depth is a function of wt and line out. Search in line weight charts and you'll find some. Remember that speed is critcal, and the wt chart should show at what speed the chart is derived (usually 1.5 mph). 

99% of the fish caught on this set up are caught behind in line boards. Expect to miss around 1/3 of the bites, more on some days. This slow presentation gives the fish a good chance to escape. Drops are common, and just part of the game.

Hope this helps, good luck.


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## elkhtr

Walleye007 said:


> Jim - I've been learning a tremendous amount from your on-line seminars. I went back and checked out some of the post from previous years. Excellent info.
> 
> Another question...Could you walk us beginner trollers through a general set up for pulling worm harnesses? I'm a little confused on how to add weight to the line. Also, can they be pulled behind off shore boards as well as dipsies/jets?
> 
> And back to rods...any ideas on a do-it-all trolling rod? Or at least that will get the job done with both dipsies & in-line boards?


a little example here along with some of the weights for sale:
http://www.olepetestackle.com/rednektrollingweights.htm


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## Rippin Lips

If i buy bulk mono,how long will it last if i keep it out of the sun and heat.


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## Walleye007

Jim Stedke said:


> Remember that speed is critcal, and the wt chart should show at what speed the chart is derived (usually 1.5 mph).
> 
> 99% of the fish caught on this set up are caught behind in line boards.


Thanks Jim. 
So I can also pull spoons with the boards using inline weights as well, correct? If so, you just saved me hours of time and $ trying to figure out divers! I don't know why I was under the impression that spoons and harnesses were just for jets, dipsies, and downriggers.


----------



## BFG

Plenty of ways to skin a cat (or walleye)...

Whatever gets your bait in the right zone at the right speed....that is the key to catching fish.


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## Jim Stedke

Walleye 007, Most pull spoons faster than harnesses, so inline wts are less effective at getting them to depth. For this reason Jets & Dipsys are much more popular for spoons.

Don't spend hours trying to figure out divers....spend $29.95 for Precision Trolling Big Water Edition and get dive curves for all the divers. 

Precision Trolling Pro Edition for lures, and Precision Trolling Big Water Edition for all the divers, lead core & snap wts. An absolute must for beginners and I guarantee you when the pros come to fish our lake, they all have both books on board.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Rippin Lips, Some guys carry bulk spools over one year to the next, but if the spool spent the winter in the closet, it becomes backer line for me. So one season is my answer.


----------



## rockytop

Walleye007 said:


> Jim - I've been learning a tremendous amount from your on-line seminars. I went back and checked out some of the post from previous years. Excellent info.
> 
> Another question...Could you walk us beginner trollers through a general set up for pulling worm harnesses? I'm a little confused on how to add weight to the line. Also, can they be pulled behind off shore boards as well as dipsies/jets?
> 
> And back to rods...any ideas on a do-it-all trolling rod? Or at least that will get the job done with both dipsies & in-line boards?


walleye007 heres a good one made in ohio. www.rednekoutfitters.com rockytop (BOB)


----------



## LEfriend

Jim Stedke said:


> We use 8 - 81/2' rods for Dipsys, and I see no purpose or need for longer rods.
> 
> Most importantly get all the rods exactly alike, same length, same action. It makes reading the rods so much easier.


Jim... If one were to start modest...say I plan to start from scratch with nothing and buy 6 rods at once with thought of running two each side and two out the back. Would you still want all the same...same length and action - and can one get something that can run either jets, dispys, or maybe inlines. Or do I want something a little different, obviously in pairs, such a pair of rods for maybe dipsys and a pair with different action for jets or boards. Does that matter?

Would a good program be 2 boards on each outside, jets second in each side, and dipsys in two middles (or visa versa?). Could one start with this and a few harnesses and blades, a few cranks and a few spoons. (which one of those would be a base go to lure.)

Or should one pick one program and go with it. What will give me reasonably versatility and flexibility, for the minimum of investment to get started, without breaking the bank. What would you suggest to start with for rods and baits.

This would probably be for days the lake is flatter and later in summer when they are harder to find. I still like drifting harnesses and bottom bouncers when that method works. Have a 22 footer, and no hard top, so don't have room for holders for two dozen rods fitting every situation, nor pocketbook to buy several hundred dollars worth of lures for every situation to start out. 

Have no kicker so will be buying a couple of bags and troll with my big motor (225hp). Boat came with a front mast and several rod holders so assume that is what previous owners did.

Will probably head to Erie Outfitters and pick it all up at once, but would appreciate your thoughts on a basic entry level setup to see one if I like it and two if my boat is suited.

Thanks

By way Jim...my son Nathan worked construction for you guys one summer 8 or 9 years ago when he was studying civil engineering at Ohio State...thanks, you gave him a good experience.


----------



## rippin lip

jim what is the fasted speed you have successfully pulled r/r 800's


----------



## Jim Stedke

LEfriend, For summer time fishing, in nice weather, you can't beat boards. If you have a mast and want to go with big boards, that would be good. If you want to go with little boards, that's fine too. These 7 - 8-1/2'rods should be rated for up to 15# test line, have soft readable tips and lots of guts in the bottom 1/2. And they would be fine for everything with the possible exception of Dipsys. They'd suffice for #0 Dipsys (best suited for the islands and water under 35').

So far as combining programs is concerned, cranks and spoons do fine together, but harnesses are a slower program, and are most often run by themselves. 

If you want to run 2 boards, 2 Dipsys, & 2 flat lines (like lead core with minnow baits), then you'd want to run the boards on 1 side, the Dipsys on the other, and the lead core straight out the back.

The reason for this is the fact that you read one board rod off the other, or one Dipsy rod off the other. 

The potential problem with these set ups is the fact that the lead core lines in likely to get tangled when you bring in a fish off the boards or the Dipsys. To avoid this the flat line (in this example lead core rod) from the side catching the fish needs to placed on the other side of the boat. To keep it from tangling the rod already there, that rod needs to repositioned at 90 degrees to the boat (stuck straight out the side), while the relocated rod can go straight out the back. These rod relocations need to happen as soon as the fish is hooked to maximize separation, and minimize tangles.

You could of course bring the line in, but you'd soon tire of this, and a lure out of the water is very very unlikely to catch a fish. Haha!

For clarity: the only non-standard rod you might need would be Dipsy rods, that should be a little heavier (rated for up to 20# test line), then the board rods. Many use one rod, but I'm giving you my opinion.

This is a complex question/situation, and I'm trying to get enough info to help you see the big picture without writing 20,000 words.

Hope this helps, ask a follow-up if need be.


----------



## Jim Stedke

rippin lips, We've pulled them at 3.1 mph, but not all of them will tolerate that speed, and tuning must be precise. We fish them a lot at 2.8.


----------



## Walleye007

In going through some of the older seminar threads, divers and jets by Walker were mentioned. Jim have you, or anyone else who has chimed in here had the chance to try them out? How do they compare to the original L-J's?


----------



## Jim Stedke

Rich ran the Walker Deeper Divers on one side of his charter boat last year, and felt they were so close to the L-J Dipsys performance wise as to be interchangable. The lack of a ring was a plus. 

We saw the new Walker Jet like diver with a trip devise at a show, but have not used them. In fact I don't think they have shipped any of them yet. But I believe they will be effective, although there won't be a dive curves for them. 

Good luck.


----------



## rickerd

If I had to go with just 3 color combos for harness blades on Lake Erie, what would you suggest?

I'm thinking gold blades for water clarity from 3'-10', Fire tiger for water clarity below 3' and Maybe silver and blue streak for water clarity above 10'.

If I just kept to these 3 color combos, would I be able to handle 95% of the water situations on Erie WB mostly and some CB fishing for walleye?

thanks again for this information,
Rickerd


----------



## blue dolphin

Rickerd. I would go with something glow in chocolate milk. up to 3ft chatruese or orange back blades maybe gold at 3 ft. 3-6 ft Gold, copper, chart, white. Above that all of the above and silver but not glow. Glow seems to only work in muddy muddy water. I would also entertain the idea of trying some of the new UV that silver streak puts out especially on cloudy days in murky water. good luck Gary


----------



## Jim Stedke

rickerd, I'd agree w/ Gary about the glow for the mud. Other than that I think you're OK.

If color was that easy and predictable we'd all have WAY less tackle. Last year white based colors worked in all types of water & in all depths also orange was a go to color for blades so .... go figure. 

If you get into harnesses, and don't end up with so many blades you can't use them all, call me, we'll let you do a seminar on what to do with all the money you can save by not buying the latest colors. LOL


----------



## blue dolphin

lol Jim is so right its a addicting passion for sure and expensive to boot. Dolphin


----------



## BuckeyeHunter

What is the best way to get into open water steelhead? I know sometimes you just run across them but is there any special things you guys run to attract them? The boat is based in Sandusky but is on a trailer so it can be moved within reason to launch somewhere else. We went out of Vermillion a number of times last year. We do have down riggers if it would help but I'm not sure what to even put on one to target the steel.


----------



## K gonefishin

BuckeyeHunter said:


> What is the best way to get into open water steelhead? I know sometimes you just run across them but is there any special things you guys run to attract them? The boat is based in Sandusky but is on a trailer so it can be moved within reason to launch somewhere else. We went out of Vermillion a number of times last year. We do have down riggers if it would help but I'm not sure what to even put on one to target the steel.



Most of the steelie action in Ohio waters can be found from the 40 line north to the border, the good action starts in late June all the way to the end of august, straight off Avon to straight off Chagrin river would be your best bet (reasonable driving distance I'm giving you), steelies schools are roamers alot of the time, although when they find a good confort zone they will stay parked for short periods of time. To fish for them, fish dipsy divers with spoons, jet divers off little or big boards and downriggers ALL spoons, silver back spoons work best but copper and gold will take fish. I like silver the best because they are eating smelt in the summer. If your looking for steelies find bait fish, if you run a color fish finder smelt fish schools are typically on the bottom of the lake in the coldest water and will appear to look like purple christmas trees (< on a lowrance), you will mark steelies as well with the walleye, long slender hooks, alot of times they like it fast 2.2-3.0 mph on GPS. Watch OGF during these months a few boats target steelies and will post reports of GPS #'s on where to find them. 

If you have any specific questions ask away.


----------



## mhcarl1965

k gonefishin said:


> maxima is a premium line and it's actually a copolymer line, unless you buy it in bulk spools (like i do) it also comes at a premium price. I was actually corrected on this yesterday on the fact it's a copolymer line which actually has less stretch than mono and made a little different, which is fine by me.
> 
> I think too much stretch can be a bad thing..whatever maxima is, i have found nothing to be more abrasion resist, strong as iron like gary said, spools great, easy to work with, ultragreen is the perfect color for erie, incredible knot strength etc. It's the bomb no other way to say it you won't be dissapointed, and if you switch from braid you will land more fish, without a doubt in my mind.


ab-so-lute-ly!


----------



## Walleye007

Jim - I read your suggestion for "0" w/ring size dipsies for the western part of the lake. What are your thoughts on mini-dipsies? When and where can they be applied?


----------



## Jim Stedke

007, I've never used the mini disk much, but I know they're effective taking spoons down to the 17' depth or so, and they are used quite a bit over in the Michigan waters and the extreme west end. We seldom fish further west than 3 miles west of W Sister. 

Perhaps one of the others guys can add some info and/or experiences.


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## boatnut

BuckeyeHunter said:


> What is the best way to get into open water steelhead? I know sometimes you just run across them but is there any special things you guys run to attract them? The boat is based in Sandusky but is on a trailer so it can be moved within reason to launch somewhere else. We went out of Vermillion a number of times last year. We do have down riggers if it would help but I'm not sure what to even put on one to target the steel.


Buckeye,
I usually only target steelies over in canadian waters in july/august. Mostly dipsey's and downriggers. I have caught them on in-lines but it's a lotta winding and fighting to bring one in on that program, IMO. We use the larger spoons,3 1/2" to the magnum size. Rainbow trout, Orange double crush, Kervorkian and Jerry Lee have all been good. Just look for bait fish and try to run a little above those marks. Last year it pretty much sucked over at Wheatley but previous to that, it had been on fire. PM me if you want more info on that area.


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## BuckeyeHunter

I appreciate the pointers, Avon definitely isn't too far to travel. Looks like I'll have to invest more in spoons, I typically drag cranks and harnesses around.


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## FishON32

I would also use rubber snubbers if your going for steelies. I had a few breakoffs last year targeting deep walleyes only to have steelhead snap my line like nothing. Another way to target them is using squid skirts typically used for salmon.


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## BFG

> 007, I've never used the mini disk much, but I know they're effective taking spoons down to the 17' depth or so, and they are used quite a bit over in the Michigan waters and the extreme west end. We seldom fish further west than 3 miles west of W Sister.
> 
> Perhaps one of the others guys can add some info and/or experiences.


Discs are just another tool in the arsenal of presenting spoons to 'eyes. We run them behind big boards, same distance back for each rod on that particular side of the boat. When you get a release, you must wait for a few seconds for the line to clear back and around the other lines. This can be problematic when you get into bycatch, as small fish like white perch and white bass can "wander" at depth once hooked and tend to get into other lines as they lack the weight necessary to flatten out the disc and cause it to rise to the top. 

A general rule of thumb that I use for discs on a big board towline is that I try to keep 25' of separation on the linecounters between each line. This seems to work fairly well. I've been on boats where guys will stuff their releases/lines really tight together on the towline, but that sort of thing makes me nervous. Probably not as big of an issue if pulling Jet Divers as it is with a disc, as on turns the Jets will float on the inside of the turn, whereas discs will sink. We troll somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.2-2.5mph SOG on the Furuno but will kick it up if the catching is slow to cover more ground. We normally run 4 lines per side of the boat, and we use Hi-Vis 12# Maxima for mainline, and P-line fluoro for leaders (7' behind the disc). 

I've run discs behind inlines as well with similar success. When my friends from Wisconsin come over every year in June, we typically run an 8 rod spread with a variety of presentations to keep it fun. We'll run two downriggers, two Lite Bite Slide Divers, two inlines w/ discs, and then two 2-color leadcores on the outside on inlines w/ Hot n Tots. With this spread, we can cover everything from within a foot of the bottom (riggers) to the top 12' (leadcore) and everywhere in between. The nice thing about this spread is that it will often tell us what the fish want on that particular day, and if the riggers and SD's are dead...but the boards are snapping away from the boat...we'll add more boards. If the riggers and SD's are going...we'll pull boards and stack the riggers and add more SD's....

Here we are....doing our thing....












Dang it...is it spring yet?


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## Uncle Paul

At times I use the mini disc off of an Off Shore board when fishing slows down it will give a harness or a spoon a different action than say a bigger dipsey or and inline weight. Something you must do is to make sure they run true, adjust them just like a crankbait.K-Gone Boatnut do you ever use flys and even cranks for the Steelies, My spread normally will include all three till maybe late July then it will be just spoons and flys but Im also over on Lake Michigan.Paul


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## blue dolphin

Uncle Paul said:


> At times I use the mini disc off of an Off Shore board when fishing slows down it will give a harness or a spoon a different action than say a bigger dipsey or and inline weight. Something you must do is to make sure they run true, adjust them just like a crankbait.K-Gone Boatnut do you ever use flys and even cranks for the Steelies, My spread normally will include all three till maybe late July then it will be just spoons and flys but Im also over on Lake Michigan.Paul


Uncle Paul your alive I thought you vanished. Dolphin


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## Walleye007

Thanks guys. BFG you've got a nice fishing machine there. 

Last questions...
When trolling a harness using an Off Shore planer, generally how far from the harness do you place your sinkers? 6ft back? What kinds of sinkers do you use?


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## blue dolphin

a 6 ft snelled harness is a good medium. I like the rednek trolling weights. They come in different colors and my favorite are red, green, pink and orange. Hope this helps and good luck


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## Jim Stedke

007, I also use 6' snell length to the sinker, but I most often use unpainted bead chain sinkers. 

Hey, no need to say last question. keep em coming ...if you like.


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## sea oxx

How far away from the boat do you guys pull the small boards?
I know I heard Gary say he thinks the walleye swim away from the boat and then BAM, here comes your lure to snack on. I just wondered if you had a prefered distance?
Thanks


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## BFG

> BFG you've got a nice fishing machine there


I wish that was my fishing machine. You are correct...it is an awesome boat for Erie. 1/4" hull in NICE....and them Hondas sip the fuel.

I'll run inlines as far out as I can...depending on the conditions. If it is rough, or if there is a lot of traffic...they stay close...but if it's calm and clear....I send 'em half way to Madison...


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## Uncle Paul

Dolphin youre the guy that has disappeared from the face of the earth. Val has me ice fishing a bunch this year or shoveling snow. Do we need to talk about Winnebago this summer for you guys? Paul


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## Jim Stedke

Sea Oxx, I've run them as far as 150' (even further when it's calm) and as close as 25'. Typically my outside board is around 100' from the rod tip.

The rougher the closer. If you've got a boat load and are pulling4 a side, you need to spread them out.


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## sea oxx

Thanks Jim,
This was our first summer trolling, we started with bottom bouncers and dipseys. We liked the bottom bouncers ,but the dipseys not so much. I new we were passing a lot of suspended fish so we are hoping we like the small boards.
Thanks again


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## Jim Stedke

If it's you're first summer running boards; here's a few tips:

For starters run all the same lures on the same side and vary you drop lengths no more than 20'.
Run the longer leads on the outside so as to minimize trying to bring a short lead over a long lead, when bringing in a fish.
Turn on your clickers and set your drags just heavy enough to hold the board. Then the added drag of a fish will cause the clickers to click (kind of a bite alarm).
Tune your lures !!!! It's important.
When you get a fish on, turn the boat 20 degrees away from the fish. It creates more seperation between the fish and the other lures.
If you get hooked up on the inside of a turn, straighten the boat out before trying to bring in the fish. If you can't straighten out because of traffic, let the fish pull untill you can, or clear the inside lines. I HATE TANGLES!!!
When targeting fish marks set on side 3' above the marks and the other side 7' above the marks. 
What kind of line are you going to use?


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## sea oxx

I have 30# power pro now, but I think Im going to change to mono. Just because its cheaper to keep the line counters full and that power pro is a pain to cut. I know, I know get a good pair of cutters, but they end up in my pocket then back on the counter in the camper

Thanks alot for the all info. on the boards it makes our time out there alot more fun. It takes forever to figure all this out when between my sons track and football, we usually only get one day a weekend the best months out of the year, and thats if the weather co-operates. LOL


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## Jim Stedke

Yep, Shortening learning curves = more fish in the box. That's what I hope to help with.

I would suggest going to mono for the boards, and also snapper releases will keep you from having to chase dropped boards. Wrap the front releases if you don't get the snappers.


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## Walleye007

Jim Stedke said:


> Hey, no need to say last question. keep em coming ...if you like.


Well if you insist...
What kind of program would you set up in late March /early April in the western part of the lake (Toledo area)? And how about late April /early May? Also any areas to try for sure during those times?
I used to hit the river with my waders, but since i bought a boat last August, I'd like to take advantage of Lake access.


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## Jim Stedke

Ice out is a time to vertical jig or ice fish out of an anchored boat. It's usually a deep water over soft bottom thing. Look for fairly tight groups of large marks close to the bottom. It' about the only time I use bottom lock. 
I'm not up on the extreme west end, but a good spot is 3/8ths of a miile south and a little west of Green Island. There's an area of just slightly deeper water that can be good that time of year.
By late March and early April the trolling bite is going off the reefs. The purple hair jig thing is going both at the reefs, and just off shore at around 14' of water, but now you drag the jigs behind a drifting boat.
My thing is trolling in area of B, C, D & E cans on the outside (north and east) of the reefs. If we leave from Turtle creek I'd probably work it from north and west to the east and south. I'd start looking in the B can area off Round Reef and look for those high scattered marks that indicate hunting walleyes. Once I located a nice concentration of walleyes I'd set up 4 or 6 in-line boards depending on how many guys were on-board. (let's say 3 guys - 6 lines). 

The first line in would be a Rip Stick Bare Naked back 45' on 10/4 Fireline (8' deep). Next to it would be a 400 Rip Shad (large one) in Superman color, back the same 45' on Fireline (11' deep). On the inside I'd Run a Deep Rouge Gold w/ a black back back the same 45' on 10/4 Fireline (12' deep).

On the mono side I'd run a Little Ripper Chrome / Blue back back 65' on 10# Big Game (5-1/2' deep), then a Deep Hushy DHJ 10 Clown back 65' on 10# Big Game (10' deep), and on the inside I'd run a Deep Little Ripper, Bare Naked back only 23' to keep it at 8' deep. 

So we have lures at 8, 11, 12, 5-1/2, 10' & 8' deep. My subs would be HJ-10 glass purple perch, Husky Jerks w/ green sides, Rip Stick Emerald Shiner or Eriedescent, Deep Rouge with orange belly & black back, and Reef Runner Bare Nakeds of various sizes. I'd concentrate on the top 12' of water and maybe go as deep as 16', but nothing deeper, even though the most marks will be at 20 - 24' deep in 27 - 32' of water. 

Speed will start out at 1.9 mph and we'll vary that from 1.5 to 2.2 and let the fish tell us what they want this day.

We may not catch huge numbers of fish, but our chances will be as good or better than any other time of the year to catch a 14# plus walleye. 

Seasonal changes year to year can slide dates a week or even 2 but by late April more fish will be closer to S Bass. I'd try 1 to 3 miles west of S Bass, and fish maybe 3 - 5' deeper. Expect the fish to be starting to group up, but they will be in small schools that are hard to keep track of. Like roving wolf packs. 

Safety must be emphasized. Cold water is deadly, and equipment failures are just not acceptable. 2 means of contact with the mainland is important (meaning VHF & cell phone.) 

New boat and a shake down trip, can spell trouble. There's not a lot of help out there early. You need to be self sufficient. 

good luck and good fishing and be safe


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## blue dolphin

Uncle Paul said:


> Dolphin youre the guy that has disappeared from the face of the earth. Val has me ice fishing a bunch this year or shoveling snow. Do we need to talk about Winnebago this summer for you guys? Paul


Ill call you this weekend. Dolphin


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## Workdog

Jim, your post #260, ice-out thru April fishing around the reefs was excellent. That's a keeper! (all the other info you've provided is very good too!  ).


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## Uncle Paul

We are on our way after work tomorrow to ice fish on Green Bay for the weekend the cell will be on or leave a message on the home phone. Nice sponsorship buddy.Paul


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## blue dolphin

I have to agree that was a awesome explanation for sure. It reminds me of 2002 and i didnt know my a hole from a shot gun barrell and the info that Jim just gave was what i used back then and lets just say it was very helpful and was the start of my walleye days. Nice job Jim! Gary


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## K gonefishin

Workdog said:


> Jim, your post #260, ice-out thru April fishing around the reefs was excellent. That's a keeper! (all the other info you've provided is very good too!  ).


Good stuff Jim...However if I must 95% of the fish I have caught trolling in March throughout the end of April even the last week have been caught between .8 and 1.7 seems that 1.2-1.5 has been key...I am a slow troller and I'm not afraid to kick it up a notch but my luck has always been to go slow. Not saying don't try faster but NEVER be afraid to go slow expecially prior to the second week of April...you just might miss the boat on a slow troll bite. 

(PS. I know how you and Carlson troll...a tad faster than most) )


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## Jim Stedke

Kevin, I need your address, the mail I sent to the address you gave me was returned... call me at 419 230 8314.

Now speed, if you're on fish sure go as slow as you like, but too often the slow stuff reduces your ability to cover ground, and too often I want to be about 3 places at once. So going faster helps. 

I was with Dave Mull editor of Greats lakes Angler a few years ago, and was going to change a lure. When I change a lure I retrieve the board as fast as I can crank it in to minimize down time. It was calm and the boards were pretty far out, I had moved the board 35 - 40' as fast as I could crank, while trolling at 1.7mph. The lure had to going over 3mph (likely faster), when a big prespawn female engulfed it and sank the board. I thought I had snagged some of the underwater debris in the area, and was surprised when I felt the first head shake. 

I say all the time, "you can catch the fish at whatever speed you want to train yourself to fish", and I also readily admit to fishing faster than most. 

I not trying to say you're wrong (not at all), I just want to explain why I'd be able to literally do circles around you, at this time of year. Most likely some days you'd have more fish than me, and other days I'd have more than you. Early spring is a kind of a boom or bust time. I feel like I'm maximizing my possibilities by getting on a 27' breakline and covering ground. 

We'll have to try and get out sometime, If I can stand Travis's speeds... I can stand yours.

Thanks for the input, and a majority of the Spring guys would agree with you.


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## K gonefishin

It's weird with the speed thing because like always two sides to every coin and more than one way to skin a cat.

The arguement or friendly discussion of what's the best way to skin this cat does really boil down to how you or I or anyone else have been trained to troll and what that Walter may want on that given troll. 

Some might say, I would rather cover more ground looking for biters and active fish< You on this topic. 

Some might say, I'm confident that biting fish are here in this spot and I have the right baits out based on conditions, water color, etc and I want that bait in front of that fish as long as possible and try to force feed them rather than get a reation strike. 

Neither of us are wrong and that's what so fun about fishing. So many ways to do it and there is no wrong answer. 

You and I could both be trolling 31 FOW near D can pounding fish..you at 1.7 me at 1.2 running completely different baits!


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## Jim Stedke

Kevin, Speed is a crucial part of any presentation, and as you well know, the slower the speed the more important it is, when pulling anything that sinks (like harness with 2 or 3 ozs in front of it). 

Followers of the thread have read that I think one of the reasons Dipsys are so effective, is because of the vertical swim they impart on the lure. And the exact same principal holds true for any weighted presentation (especially with an easy pulling harness behind a weight that is only 6' ahead of it). 

I believe that something dropping in the water, has signified an easy meal to the walleyes all their lives, and it may be the singal biggest trigger of all.

You get their attention with the flash and vibration of the blade, you trigger a reaction with the vertcal movement, and you seal the deal with the smell/taste of the worm. 

HUH!!! You guys may be onto something here. LOL.

Good thing I can recreate the same set of circumstances with a crank. 

Thanks for the reasonable and calm discussion on speed. Maybe it shows that opposing views can be stated respectfully and in a good natured way.

In 5 weeks or 6 for sure, we'll be out there after them. That will put everyone in a better mood.


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## elkhtr

Absolutely great stuff. Thanks Jim, Gary, Kevin, Het and everyone else involved here for asking great questions and giving experienced answers.

Any chance you could expand on post #260, to include different water conditions and an idea of where you start on your programs? I mean, maybe give an example of the time of year, water temps, conditions, etc. and what program you start off with? (ie, later in the spring, early summer, summer, etc.) Post 260 was excellent.


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## auglaizewader

Thanks again for the seminar. My learning curve is being helped considerably.


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## eyewannago

I hate worm dirt on my boat but I use a little coffee can or a small bucket and put an inch of water in it and wash them off before using them. Joe


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## Jim Stedke

Elkhtr, One thing I didn't mention about early fishing, that's important, is the fact that there is nearly always dirty water around in the early spring, and because it absorbs heat faster and is therefor warmer, the fish are likely to be thick in the muddy water. I mean really stacked. But these fish are neutral to negative, and I've had very little success catching them. You better off finding scattered high marks in cleaner water, because these fish are hunting, and easier to catch.

So far as the rest of the year is concerned, the fish come off the reefs and disperse to the north, the general area of the sister islands to the bass islands is good through May, with points east (Gull Island Shoal & Kelley's Island) getting hot later in May and staying good until the weeds get troublesome later in June. 

As the summer progresses, walleyes continue to move east, and if the water gets to 80 degrees most all the large fish will be in deep water east of Cleveland chasing smelt.

When the water cools to 65 (Sept) off Vermilion, the fish will have returned, and from then til the spawn they work their way to the bass islands, and the reefs off Davis Bessy. 

Techniques Start with Cranks, go to harnesses when water temps hit 48 degrees, work in small spoons when June arrives, go to large spoons or cranks when the trash fish get too thick, in late June & July. And go back to cranks in late October. 

Too many variables to get precise on locations and presentation for any given date. Heck even if I fished on Tuesday, I wouldn't know for sure where and how I'd fish on the next Friday, until I got out there and found some fish.

Hope this helps, and good luck.


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## H20hound

Jim,

I have yet to get in on the early jig bite. I've only been up there a couple times early (before may) and never had any success. I read a comment you made about anchoring Do people actually anchor near or over a reef for walleye in the early season to stay on the fish?


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## Jim Stedke

My anchoring comment was in conjunction with deep water jigging or ice fishing out of a boat, and NO I'D NEVER SUGGEST ANCHORING ON A REEF, where many others are drifting through. 

Maybe I wasn't clear, this is ice out and before the action picks up on the reefs. A couple years ago, we had open water in January and this was the program that produced. Many successful anglers where in air boats and sittng against the ice. Others got out of the air boats onto the ice and where actually ice fishing. 

Thank you for asking, I sure don't want folks crediting me for suggesting to anchor when and where there is 10 - 50 other boats wanting to drift.

good luck.


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## Bigmtman

eyewannago said:


> I hate worm dirt on my boat but I use a little coffee can or a small bucket and put an inch of water in it and wash them off before using them. Joe


This is a good time for pointers.What ways are the best to keep a boat clean of the worm mess and what is the best way to keep them plump and a live at home.


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## fishingguy

On the worm thing. I just dump the whole container, worms and dirt, into a coffee container filled about half way with water. Keeps the boat cleaner and plumps up the crawler. Put a lid on it and keep in in the cooler if you can.


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## Jim Stedke

Here's a copy of a couple good posts on worms:
#4 
Papascott 
Senior Member



Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,641 
iTrader: 1 / 100% 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forget the frabil kits, they work but are over priced and the styrofoam breaks and cracks. I use smaller plastic storage containers with snap on lids. I buy a flat or two and split them into roughly 250-300 worms per container. I use buss bedding and moisture levels are very important,follow the directions on the bedding. For food I get containers of it ron Erie outfitters, give Craig a call or email and he can sell u some or tell u what its called. If you feed heavily they will poop more and sour the bedding and will kill the worms. If it smells rotten at all or extremely musty its time to change the bedding. Any dead worms need removed ASAP the other worms will die if they are left in. It can be frustrating at times but very rewarding when your buddy's are afraid to put their hand in the bucket to rebait cause the worms might eat their hand off. 
__________________
"Let The Walleyes Hit the Floor"!!!!!!!!





 

Papascott 
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12-26-2009, 12:11 PM #5 
bassmastermjb 
The Lucky One





Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lake Rockwell
Posts: 1,147 
iTrader: 14 / 100% 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Save the money on all the over the counter worm beddings and food. Go and buy a 40lb bag of Michigan Peat for $3.50. It's like feeding the worms steroids and much cheaper. Add the vegetable scraps and an occasional crushed up apple. DO NOT put coffee grounds or manure in with your worms, these are acidic.As Papa said, you can keep in totes in the fridge at 50-55 degrees. The dirt will need to be changed about every 3-4 weeks. If your planning a fishing, take the amount of worms you usually use and place in a different tote with nothing but dampened, balled up newspaper. I do this 3-4 days before the fishing trip and all the dark dirt worm poop will be out of the worms and your boat will stay nice and clean.Worms love to eat newspaper and they will get nice and firm, fat and juicy.
Worm poop is very bad for worms, it's full of acid. If you get a bad batch or forget to change the bedding the worms will have a brownish look to them and be somewhat long and stringy, this is what the acid does to them.But the good news is they can be brought back to a healthy crawler. Here's what you do:
1)You'll need to get all the old acidic dirt off the crawlers by washing them off in clean water
2) DO NOT put the crawlers back into clean dirt
3)In a seperate tote,take a piece of newspaper and dampen it, ring out all the excess water.
4)Shread, I like to ball up, and make a layer in the bottom of your tote.
5)Place a handfull or 2 of crawlers on the paper.
6) Wet more newspaper and repeat the above steps.
7) DO NOT put flat newspaper in the when doing this without creating space for the worms to move, I learned the hard way. Worms are heavier than you think and in doing this it won't let the crawlers eat as they move and will basically suffocate them. They need room to move.
8)In 6-7 days your worms will be big, fat and healthy again.
I sell alot of crawlers because they are so nice and fat. This is the way I care for mine...............Mark 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by bassmastermjb; 12-26-2009 at 12:15 PM. 

Buss Bedding is pulverized news print, and the worms do well in it. So long as the moisture content is right.

I would add that I dumped the worms out on a large piece of cardboard about every 10 days, and removed any that weren't perfect. (1 dead worm will kill them all in about 1 week).

Also when starting your beds, if you've caught your worms or bought them, place the clean worms on top of the bedding and check them 5 hours later. Any that are still on top are sick and need to be removed. 

Now for a clean boat:
When using your own worms, stored as suggested above, the black dirt and poop are gone, and what comes out of the worm is not nearly so much trouble to clean. But we still rinsed them in lake water and had a small bucket of lightly iced water, to hold a few ready to go.

If you're dealing with worms in black dirt out of a styrofoam coffee cup, you need to rinse them etc. as above and have a couple old towels wetted, on hand to clean your hands, the floor, and anything else that gets dirty AS SOON AS IT HAPPENS. To wait and let that stuff dry makes the job 10 times more difficult. (majic erase or soft scrup w/ bleach is a good starting point if you get the job of final clean up)

Be on the look out for pieces of worm dropped on the floor in the catching process, and pick them up before someone tries to grind them into the floor with their heel. Blood and worm mess are both easiest to clean up when it happens. Boats with washdown pumps are great, but a bucket and a brush are just as good. 

Box the fish, rebait, clean-up the mess. Or get your chops busted. That's the way it worked on our boat. But we were our own cleaning crew, so we understood.

Come on Spring!!!


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## LEfriend

If you buy worms at the lake, best way I have found is to keep them in original containers in a small cooler with ice. In addition, freeze ahead 5 or 6 extra cottage cheese or similar size containers. On lake, when you need worms, dump one container at a time in small bucket, rinse with water to wash away all the dirt leaving just the worms. Leave the dozen or 2 dozen worms and 2-3 inches clean water in the bucket, and throw in a couple chunks of ice. Key is to keep the water ice cold, bucket in shade. Worms stay plump, lively, clean. When you run dry, make up a new batch from the stash left in the cooler.. Works great except in middle of hot summer it takes more ice. 

Always bait from the "clean worms" bucket. Boat stays relatively clean. This is one way to solve the problem of an "absolutely clueless buddy" who dribbles worm dirt all over your clean boat and seems oblivious to the mess he is making. (Of course other way is to leave him home next time, or make him scrub your boat!)

Nice thing about this...if you don't go through all your worms, the unopened ones stay in good shape and can be taken home to save for next trip.


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## JIG

Pretty good post no doubt! Some of them suckers are big. I dont mind the mess to much as long as were gettin fish but worm bedding isnt as messy as dirt. This year with all the snow melt should be good for crawlers. Im going to try it again. Also what might help some guys is to pinch off the tail. Just the last 1/4 in. Itll leave a sent trail fish cant turn away from.


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## Saildog

Last year a buddy of mine got an Erie boat (21' walkaround), so I finally got the chance to start fishing Erie on a regular basis. Being an experienced fisherman but new to Erie, I thought I'd share some of the things we did and learned from the beginner's perspective...

The BEST things we did:

1) Read all of Jim's winter online seminars. I printed them out, hole punched them and put them in a binder. This let me take them anywhere, read them at my leasure and scribble notes in the borders. Better than any book on the subject of walleye trolling Erie. 

2) Went out with EZMarc (Marc Hudson) for a day. Highly recommended. Marc gave us great insight into not only how and where to fish, but answered hundreds of questions and opinions on equipment, etc. 

3) Learned to tie our own harnesses. It's easy, fun and saves money. But the biggest benefit is getting what you want. 

4) We did not go crazy buying rods. We bought four of the JBI Erie Series 7' dipsey rods and used those mainly for inline boards. We caught a lot of fish and lost very few, inspite of using a dipsey rod with Powerpro. Light drags and a good net helped a lot. 

If there is a thing I would do different, it would be going out with a guide BEFORE buying ANYTHING. Most of the stuff we bought before going out with Marc is still in the bottom of the closet. 

2009 was a great year for us. Some days were easy and other days were much more humbling. 

Finally onto my question: I am looking for a good bottom bouncer rod that we can run in the holders straight off the back of the boat. I'm using some Ugly Stiks that I already owned and they do okay, but I'd like something with a really, really soft tip. Any suggestions???


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## blue dolphin

I ususually dont support big tackle stores ( believe in the little guy) but bass pro does make a nice 7 ft bottom bouncer rod that is nice for running straight off the back. I also think cabelas does also. I use a cabelas GTS 2 10 ft steelhead rod for my bouncers that i run straight off the side and those are really nice and load up awesome. That rod was recommended to me by Andy Kuffer years back and i cant thank him enough for the great suggestion. Sounds like your having fun. Being humbled out there happens to all of us its how you learn from it that makes you a better angler. Good luck Gary


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## Saildog

Thanks Gary. I'll take a look next time I'm by one of their stores. Most rods labeled for bottom bouncing are the exact opposite of what I want. They are made to be hand held and extra sensitive...the sort of things that help you FEEL the strike and give a fast hookset. I want something that lets me SEE the strike and is soft enough to let the fish hook itself and not shake off before I can grab it.


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## ERIE REBEL

blue dolphin said:


> I ususually dont support big tackle stores ( believe in the little guy) but bass pro does make a nice 7 ft bottom bouncer rod that is nice for running straight off the back. I also think cabelas does also. I use a cabelas GTS 2 10 ft steelhead rod for my bouncers that i run straight off the side and those are really nice and load up awesome. That rod was recommended to me by Andy Kuffer years back and i cant thank him enough for the great suggestion. Sounds like your having fun. Being humbled out there happens to all of us its how you learn from it that makes you a better angler. Good luck Gary


BPS walleye rods are VERY good rods.I have owned seven of them over the years since thay first came out.I can not complain about any of them.


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## K gonefishin

Saildog said:


> Thanks Gary. I'll take a look next time I'm by one of their stores. Most rods labeled for bottom bouncing are the exact opposite of what I want. They are made to be hand held and extra sensitive...the sort of things that help you FEEL the strike and give a fast hookset. I want something that lets me SEE the strike and is soft enough to let the fish hook itself and not shake off before I can grab it.


If they are still available, Gander Mountain makes a 8'6 "planer board" rod that makes for a great bouncer rod, very soft rod that telegraphs what's going on down below to your rod tip great visually but it's very soft and way too soft as a planer board rod (for my likings) it's more of a medium light but work wonders as a bouncer rod, it loads up great when a fish is on your bait without them feeling it but has plenty of bone when you want to stick em. The come pretty cheap around $30-40. The extra length gives you good seperation. Just a tip on bouncers you want to run your line at a 45 degree angle and run them straight out the side of your boat not behind it, so you can see exactly what your bouncer is doing, IE: dragging, jumping over rocks, just skimming over the top, hitting bottom here and there etc. or getting wacked by junk fish, you can't do this if the tip isn't pointing out the back of the boat.


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## harle96

Saildog said:


> Finally onto my question: I am looking for a good bottom bouncer rod that we can run in the holders straight off the back of the boat. I'm using some Ugly Stiks that I already owned and they do okay, but I'd like something with a really, really soft tip. Any suggestions???


I have 8' 6 inch okuma classics. The weight requirements say 10-25 lb line. They are soft enough for light bb and durable enough to to go as high as 8 oz bb. I've never had to use anything bigger...

I use them for all my trolling techniques. I wouldn't change or have any other. I have nearly 4 seasons on them....


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## ezmarc

Saildog, glad you had a decent year. I had a few of those humbling days myself but overall it was great

I've got 2 - 7' Lightning rods for bouncers. They double as Planer Rods now and then when I want something longer than the 6' planer rods I usually use. Very soft tip and that yellow tip makes them easy to watch. Bought them at Saginaw Bay at a place called northland Wholesalers or something (Pretty cool local tackle and outdoors place) for $39 bucks rigged with Okuma 20 line counters. Great and inexpensive rig for bouncing that I'm sure a lot of local shops could order. I think the rods go for around $20.

One of the best bouncer rods I ever saw was a simple zebco Spiderman pole. Just ask Wyatt (double A's son) Little tough bringing 8 pound fish in though and the reels don't last long.


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## Jim Stedke

Smaller boats fish best with shorter rods. I wouldn't go over 7' unless you can't find the action you want.


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## LindyRigger

I know Gary recommends black or clear dipsies but what about color for bottom bouncers. Black, no paint/lead, or colored? Thanks for this web seminar. It is a great resource.
Lindyrigger


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## steelheadBob

ok, ive prob passed this question up or couldnt put it together from others..... Boat speed!!!!!! I have a very light MFG with a 1962 75 hp johnson hanging off the back... Hers my ???? I had a 8 hp but the engine is dead, so my dad bought a 3.5 nissan from his buddy for our little 14 alum... If im running lets say 4 inline boards and a deadline, what would be better?,?,?,?,?,,,, Getting a happy troller for the Johnson,,,,,Run the johnson with a bags,,,,, or seeing that the boat is realy light ectept for the engine on the back do you think i can use the 3.5 nissan as a kicker to get me down to the speeds i need to get to for trolling. What does everyone think would be the best option in my case.... Heres a pic of the boat,,,, and plus the bow being so light, i would deff have a drift with the bow heading with the wind....


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## Bigmtman

If the bow is light like you say I would use the bags,one off each side.This would get you to the low speed you want and help with boat control,IMO.

And to save gas$$ you might even be able to run 2 small bags with that small kicker to help you all the way around.


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## Jim Stedke

Lindyrigger, I use unpainted lead often (even on jigs) but there's not a pat answer. It really does depend on the mood of the fish. What scares the bagebbers out of them on day attracts them the next. Orange, Chartruse, & unpainted would be my top 3.


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## Jim Stedke

Steelhdbob, Since you own the kicker I'd try it first, and see what you think. If that proves unsatisfactory, then bags (which you can always use as drift socks). And finally the trolling plate.

Good luck.


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## normd

Dipsy Basics needed. I want to give them a go this season. Not sure how, what kind, speeds, conditions most effective or leader length. Any reccomendations would be helpful.


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## auglaizewader

Jim, a couple of posts up you recommended that


> Smaller boats fish best with shorter rods. I wouldn't go over 7' unless you can't find the action you want.


 Can you give some more details about this? I am currently in the process of upgrading to a 16.5 to 19 foot boat, and this could affect my rod purchasing. Thanks.


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## blue dolphin

normd said:


> Dipsy Basics needed. I want to give them a go this season. Not sure how, what kind, speeds, conditions most effective or leader length. Any reccomendations would be helpful.


Are you giving them a go with harnesses. Spoons or stickbaits. All these are variables for the questions above. Gary


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## Jim Stedke

auglaizewader said:


> Jim, a couple of posts up you recommended that Can you give some more details about this? I am currently in the process of upgrading to a 16.5 to 19 foot boat, and this could affect my rod purchasing. Thanks.


It's mainly a matter of convenience. From where to put the rod when unhooking a fish, to storage, to netting. If you're used to longer rods and like them, I wouldn't say you need to change, but the whole thing of 9 - 10' Dipsy rods, was some engineers idea, and most are getting away from it. 

Good luck.


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## fishingguy

SteelheadBob; I would definitely try to get the kicker working. It's probably a short shaft, so you might have a few issues getting it mounted, so you can get it down and up easily. Also, you need to get it "hooked up" with the big motor with some sort of a arm so you can steer it from the helm. One of the reasons I don't use a kicker is I have an I-O and I would have to carry another gas can for the kicker since the kicker , if not a 4 stroke, would need oil. Not enough room in the boat for unnecessary items. If I couldn't resolve these issues, I would not hesitate to go the bag route. In fact, I don't think I would even bother trying to troll without them.


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## Saildog

If you have the kicker, for sure try that. Those older two strokes often don't like to idle low for long periods of time and fouling plugs, etc, can be a real pain. By using bags you could "motor up" to avoid the problem, but then the noise and fuel consumption problems of the older two strokes just becomes exacerbated. 

That boat is small, light and narrow enough that the 3.5hp should do fine. 

I have found on my 15' whaler that I use for inland lake fishing that gear placement makes a big difference in how the boat balances, gets on plane and handles. With the old (heavy) outboard on the back and a small kicker, you will want/need to put everything you can as far forward in the boat as possible.

If you get bags, note that trolling bags can be used for drifting. Drift bags are generally not heavy duty enough for trolling.


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## steelheadBob

fishingguy said:


> SteelheadBob; I would definitely try to get the kicker working. It's probably a short shaft, so you might have a few issues getting it mounted, so you can get it down and up easily. Also, you need to get it "hooked up" with the big motor with some sort of a arm so you can steer it from the helm. One of the reasons I don't use a kicker is I have an I-O and I would have to carry another gas can for the kicker since the kicker , if not a 4 stroke, would need oil. Not enough room in the boat for unnecessary items. If I couldn't resolve these issues, I would not hesitate to go the bag route. In fact, I don't think I would even bother trying to troll without them.


Its a long shaft!!!! He got it off his buddy who had a sail boat, so i wont need a kicker plate.... Thanks for all the advice everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jim Stedke

Normd, Quicky Dipsy basics: 
Rods: ALL ALIKE same length same action 8 -9', rated for 20 or 25# line, soft tip & beefy butt (Rigger rods are OK)

Reels Line counters w/ decent drags (spend the extra on reels not rods)

Line 30 or heavier Power Pro or super braid of your choice.

Dipsys #1 black or clear or Walkers of like size.

Snubbers: Amish outfitters Dipsy shockers

leaders 6' west up to 15' east 20 or 25# fluorocarbon w/ at least 1 ball bearing swivel (2 for harnesses)

Pushed for time. Search any part and you'll get many hits.

Ask follow ups if need be 

bbl good luck.


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## Jim Stedke

Normd, 

I'm back and not rushed now. Other things about Dipsys:
there are 2 adjustments. One is the side setting, right or left 0-3 in both directions. Pretty much self explanatory. We run 4 on each side at 1, 2, 3 & where 4 would be if there were a 4. 

The other is the trip tension adjustment. You want that to be heavy enough to stop false releases, but light enough to be easy to pop. We have found that around 3 pounds pull is about right for 2.3 - 2.5 mph in 2' or less waves. As your speed goes up, and lake gets rougher you need heavier trip tension. At 3 mph in 3-5 around 5#, and so on. The adjustment screw is very sensitive.When you want to increase the trip tension move it 1/8th revolution or less, and try it. That's not much.

Dipsy rod holders should be at the rear of the boat, and laid down nearly flat at 90 degrees to the line of travel of the boat. This prevents interference from the board rods and makes watching / reading the rods easier. Also the rod holder should be close together (9-11") like the 3 plex or 4 plex T bar holders. This sets the rods up with the tips only 9-11" apart, and makes it obvious when you start to drag one of those pesky 5" white perch around. (rod tip movement of a couple inches is noticeable) 

When you go to trip or release a Dipsy, reel in to lower the rod tip, thumb the spool, and give a short quick flick of the wrist. Like a teeny tiny hook set. With the propper trip tension and super braid line you'll feel the Dipsy trip. It's as obvious as sticking your finger in a mouse trap. If you're not sure that it tripped wait a few seconds... if the line starts to come up, it's tripped, if not it's either a huge fish, an untripped Dipsy or a wrapped leader. 

If you really want to shorten your learning curve, go out with an experienced Dipsy fisherman, and let him show you the ropes. 

Nuff fer now. Come on Spring!!


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## LEfriend

This is all good stuff! Other than printing this out page by page, is there any way to save electronically or print the whole thread, so next summer I can go back and take a quick look. Hoping there is and I have just missed it.


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## fishingguy

Just save it to your favorites or bookmarks.


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## normd

What's the ideal presentation for running spoons? I got some for Ole Pete's and i want to give it a go this year.


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## BlueMax

steelheadBob said:


> ok, ive prob passed this question up or couldnt put it together from others..... Boat speed!!!!!! I have a very light MFG with a 1962 75 hp johnson hanging off the back... Hers my ???? I had a 8 hp but the engine is dead, so my dad bought a 3.5 nissan from his buddy for our little 14 alum... If im running lets say 4 inline boards and a deadline, what would be better?,?,?,?,?,,,, Getting a happy troller for the Johnson,,,,,Run the johnson with a bags,,,,, or seeing that the boat is realy light ectept for the engine on the back do you think i can use the 3.5 nissan as a kicker to get me down to the speeds i need to get to for trolling. What does everyone think would be the best option in my case.... Heres a pic of the boat,,,, and plus the bow being so light, i would deff have a drift with the bow heading with the wind....


Bob,
I have a couple of "EZBite trolling buckets" I made a few years ago that you can try/use. I used these until last year when I bought a pair of 28" buggy bags.
Gene


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## Jim Stedke

Normd, Spoons can be run behind Dipsy or Jets or w/ a 3way using a deep diving crank to get depth. There is no 1 ideal presentation, but I'd bet there are more caught with Jets, than Dipsys. Mainly because Jets have become so popular with the charters. 

One big problem with small spoons behind Jets is that in July the white bass & white perch can be a real problem. (as in 10 to 1 non-target species or more). When that starts larger spoons slow them down, but don't stop them. 

I hope this helps..... Come on Spring!!


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## normd

Jim Stedke said:


> Normd, Spoons can be run behind Dipsy or Jets or w/ a 3way using a deep diving crank to get depth. There is no 1 ideal presentation, but I'd bet there aremore caught with Jets,than Dipsys. Mainly because Jets have become so popular with the charters.
> 
> One big problem with small spoons behind Jets is that in July the white bass & white perch can be a real problem. (as in 10 to 1 non-target species or more). When that starts larger spoons slow them down, but don't stop them.
> 
> I hope this helps..... Come on Spring!!



Yep that helps. I'm a sponge when it comes to learning new ways to catch those eyes. Trial and error!!!


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## Jim Stedke

So are we all done??? Likely 3 - 5 weeks before open water. That's plenty of time for more questions.


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## eyesman_01

I've been using big boards off my boat for the past couple years, and I love the fact once I get the line out of the release, it's just me and the fish. However, some of the best sticks I know on here are small board fans, so this year I've bought a set of 4 OffShore OR-12's. Advertised as this year's model with the upgraded clip (orange one- adjustable spring). Feels pretty stout. I know most swap the clip, however, I doubt I'll get that done before the fest in April. I guess I'm just looking for a few pointers for converting myself over to the small boards... tips on initial setup, setting boards out, etc. Het and Carl showed me the ropes on dipseys a few years ago. I hope this transition goes as smooth.


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## rizzman

Eyesman, IMO you need to look at the boats some of the "best sticks" are using, not very conducive to mounting a mast on the bow. I love running the big boards for the same reason you do, the small guys are a must for the night bite though.


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## Jim Stedke

Eyesman1, , Most go to the Snapper releases (OR 18), however your orange ones with the dimple in the center will work (you just need to wrap the front release).

I don't know if you like to fish into the waves or not, but if you don't, you'll find the in-line boards quicker and easier to retrieve for making another pass. 

For 4 lines, slower presentations, 3' or less waves, night fishing and drift trolling little boards are hard to beat.

For 3 or more guys, faster presentations, rougher lake, 50 Jets and 5 lines a side big boards are better.

With little boards you can rotate lures after a catch or reset in the same pattern. So a high lure on the outside can go back to that spot after it fires. That's a good thing for Spring fishing. 

"Tips on initial setup, and setting boards out, etc" :
You really have more options and flexibility so far as drop lengths and depths are concerned with little boards. Set each side up with shallower lures on the outside and deeper lures on the inside. Big differences in drop lengths are not an issue (unless you want to make wild turns). 

With 2 yrs under your belt running big boards, you shouldn't have many problems. Your reads are board position in the formation, instead of the release. And the rod tip. Watch for the board getting a bow high attitude, or sinking slightly both signs of hitchhikers or trash fish. If you want to check a line, pull the rod from the holder and give the board a pull, if it lays over and slides to you, no body home. But if it stays upright and pulls harder, you probably have a customer. With a day or 2 experience, you'll get a feel for it. 

As with big boards, turning 20 degrees away from a hooked fish increases line separation and minimizes tangles. 

If I missed anything ask a follow up. Hope this helps. Come on Spring!


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## FreeByrdSteve

To everyone reading this great online seminar I want to extend an invitation to South Shore Marine's 6th annual FISHING SEMINAR & OPEN HOUSE set for Saturday March 6th at our showroom in Huron, OH.

Showroom opens at 10AM
Catered Lunch at 11:30AM
SEMINAR will start when we are done eating around 12:15 to 12:30

TRAVIS HARTMAN - ODNR Fisheries Biologist will kick things off with an update on the status of the walleye & perch populations and answer any questions.

JIM STEDKE, TRAVIS, & I will then lead a "round-table" type discussion on basically all the things that have been covered in this online seminar. We will have a boat set up in a simulated trolling situation with Cisco Rodholders, Dipsey Rods pulled in to position - Amish Outfitters big boards & Trolling Bags in a simulated setup with rods set in position. Little boards will be covered.

We will not have a long "prepared presentation" - as we want the discussion to be driven off of questions from the audience. It will mostly be geared to trolling from boat setup, equipment choices including electronics, techniques, tactics, locations from early spring till late fall.

THERE IS NO COST TO ATTEND - BUT WE NEED RSVPS TO GET ACCURATE COUNTS FOR FOOD & DRINKS. RSVP to [email protected] or 419-433-5798


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## Walleye007

Jim I have a few more for you...
Question re: Reef Runner 700 "Ripstick" dive curve. 
I bought the Precision Trolling "Pro Edition" today for 
$40. Much to my disappointment the 700 Ripsticks are absent from the book. Any info. on the dive curve for these?

Also, at what point in the season, should trollers switch from the narrow cranks to the shad style?


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## Jim Stedke

eyesman 01, Here's a couple more little board tips.... when bringing the board to the boat with a fish hooked up, keep the board in the water, until you can be sure of having it close enough to the rod to keep it out of the water. You never want to have the board in the water then out then back in.

Board removal, With a fish on the line, and a board needing to be remove, the guy with the rod needs to move away from the rear of the boat, making room for his partner to 
between him and the fish. When the board is within reach the guy with the rod needs to lower the rod tip down allowng the remover to grasp the board and get the line out of the clips, then the guy with the rod needs to lower the rod tip, taking the pressure of the fish in a smooth way so as not to twang the fish. This is somewhat difficult to describe, but fairly easy to do. Just try to keep constant and ever pressure on the fish through the process.
Good luck & Come on Spring.


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## Jim Stedke

007, Look in the back, the last couple pages show all the stickbaits .... Ripsticks max out at 11' w/ 110'of line out. The older books show 1' deep w/ 3' of line out, 2 - 6, 3 - 10, 4 -15, 5 -20, 6 - 28, 7 - 37, 6 - 47, 7 - 37, 8 - 47, 9 - 60, 10 - 80 & 11 - 106. 

The shad lures will work as early as mid May, and that may be important in the exteme west end, but in the last several years, we have stayed with the Reef Runners all summer. 

Good luck & Come on Spring.


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## Jim Stedke

TUNING REEF RUNNERS:
Here's a reprint of how to tune Reef Runner:

Reef Runners have a built in horizontal hunting action. That's kinda like saying they are not going to track perfectly straight and true. A slight variation in speed will often cause the lure to dart left or right momentarily. This is a wonderful trigger for any following fish and frankly I believe it is what makes the lure so effective. 

So how do we tune a lure that has a built in horizontal hunting action???

You start with the lure beside the boat at trolling speed, with around 10' of line out. Pull the lure at trolling speed and watch to see if wants to hang too far left or too far right. Using needle nose pliers or the Reef Runner lure tuner, bend the line tie in the bill just slightly the opposite way the lure is running. (running left - bend right or the reverse). Keep making tiny adjustments until the lure pulls fairly straight. 

Now rip the lure forward with the rod, such as would happen if the board was coming off a wave. The lure will likely kick right or left. Pull it several times and make tiny adjustments until you get it to kick both left and right about equally. 

The secret is to sneak up on the sweet spot, and not rack the line tie back and forth several times. To do so weakens it and yields a lure that can't be tuned.

I will add that if you can't get into undisturbed water beside the boat because of trolling bags, you can let out 30 feet of line or so and slowly retrieve the lure, watching to see which way it wants to veer off, but this obviously adds time to the process. 

Over tuning is the worst thing you can do, so go easy.

good luck. 

Tuning is CRUTIAL, and I don't use that word often. 

Come on Spring!!


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## Jim Stedke

Speed setting Dipsy Divers:

Speed setting is a technique to quickly get a Dipsy back to depth, when 2 or more Dipsys are being used on each side.

Let's say we have 4 Dipsys on each side and the 3rd one out from the boat, on the starboard side, catches a walleye.

We try to get all the Dipsys on either side at the same depth. Lets say our target depth on the starboard side is 36'. So the #1 would at 60'of line out, the #2 at 70', the #3 at 79, and the #4 at 100' of line out. From my own depth chart.

To speed set that Dipsy, we take the rod to the Port side (the opposite side)of the boat and set the Dipsy in the water just inside the #1 Dipsy line, being careful not to tangle the lure on that line. With the clicker on and the reel in free spool, we let the line come off the reel at a smooth fast pace, using the clicker to slow it enough to prevent a rotation, and making sure the study even clicking indicates no slack given.

Hold the rod off the port quarter, until you reach 1/2 the drop length, (62') then with the rod tip high (and line still peeling off the reel) bring the rod to the starboard side, and get in position next to the appropriate rod holder. When the line counter reaches 79' engage the reel and quickly slide the rod into the holder.

The Dipsy will fly up and over the inside lines, and settle neatly into position.

This works great so long as the boat is going straight (NO TURNS), and so long as none of the other starboard Dipsys fire.

If you get a hook up on one of the other starboard Dipsys while the Dipsy you are setting is swinging into position you must trip the Dipsy being set and start over. The hooked fish will bring that Dipsy back & up into the space needed for clearance.

If the inside Dipsy (#1) catches it can be reset without all this hubbub, because it has nothing to get around.

This is tedious to describe and seems complicated, but if I could show you, it's not all that big a deal.

Done properly it works great. We do it all the time with only 2 or 3 out of 100 problems. Currents can mess it up.


Here's a couple other tips to minimize tangles:
If you suspect 2 Dipsys are tangled, trip them both at once and bring them in together. This minimizes the spinning and wrapping.

When a Dipsy hooks up, take the rod to the opposite side of the boat before tripping the Dipsy, and stay on that side to bring the fish in. This causes the Dipsy to more quickly come up and away from the others. The same holds true for board rods also.

Come on Spring!!


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## preacherman

Jim or others. got a new boat. old one for rod holders had 2 tite-loks on each side and 2 scotty off the back. on my new boat i was thinking about using a triple mount. didn't know if i should go with tite-loks on both sides which would mean buying 2 more tubes plus two triple mount holders or i saw that cabelas has a triple mount for the scotty and then would just need one more of them and 1 holder? would dipsies be too much pressure for the scotty set up. or any other factors to take into consideration. thanks


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## Jim Stedke

Preacherman, If you get into Steelies.... ever, I'd go with the Tite-Loks. I was going to say if you fish 10 times a year or less, the Scotty would do, but I'd feel more secure w/ Tite-Loks.

Good luck, and tell the Boss we're all glad Spring follows winter and we hope it comes soon.


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## preacherman

i fish about 40 times a year and have yet to run into a steelhead. i do not target them, so may stick with the scotty on the one side and hope i don't get the one that will rip it off the boat like jaws. wish i had some pull with the big guy, but i'm counting the days too


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## Toolman

Jim,

Great tutorial on the dipsey speed set-you are right it's easier to see than to read and understand. I think I learned that trick from you up at Dunkirk a few years back. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes! I've passed it along to several since then (with no problems). Hope Lundy doesn't read this...lol! I showed him (tried to show him) and things went horribly wrong! He's prolly still laughing about that (and my Tattle Flags)! 

I agree...c'mon Spring!

Tim


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## Jim Stedke

Tim, Thanks. 

I still remember the lesson on propper release technique, up at Dunkirk. Poor fish.


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## Toolman

LMAO!!! That release didn't work out quite like I planned either-especially for the fish! Too funny!

Tim


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## One Legged Josh

Thanks for all the answers, and all of the questions guys! This will be my first year on Erie, and now I have a better idea of what I need to know. My notes are 3 pages long and so is my shopping list....
Hope to see you all on the water!


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## eyesman_01

Your shopping list won't stop there.... as a matter of fact... I haven't found the end of mine yet.


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## Tommybouy

Hi Jim;

I hope this message finds you well! Great seminar again!

I just had back surgery and am doing well and have lots of time to kill during recovery. I decided this weekends Spring prep activities will include doctoring some crankbaits that need a spruce. Im going to use some prism tape. 

Typically I use the tape on the sides of the cranks but wanted to know your thought on placing on the diving lip? Im a little worried about it affecting dive curve and action. 

Also; Do you think the diving lip adds as much as the sides? I have baits with colored lips that do well but Im not sure if the dive lip is worth it or not. _Risk / Reward?_ Lastly; do you have a paint marker you reccommend? I look forward to learning your opinion. 

Best,


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## Jim Stedke

Adding tape to lips: little or no effect on dive curvee or action, but it's the hardest place to get it to stay on. I don't do it anymore. 

I use permanent Majic Markers (mostly Sharpies) more than paint pens. But the paint pens will work also.

It's remarkable how well the Sarpies work, and how long the color lasts.

Have fun, and best wishes for a speedy recovery.


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## Jim Stedke

Well March is here, as my grandpa used to say, "March is like a model T Ford, just enough spring in it to make your a$$ tired!" But we'll be fishing in 3 or 4 weeks. 

Can't wait to see that 1st board go back. 

COME ON SPRING!!!


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## Saildog

That seems hard to believe given the winter we've had this year, but looking at the 10 day forecast there are suddenly more 40's than 30's. I'll be waxing the boat by the end of next week...


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## Big Chief

Everyone talks about which blade is best, how important is bead color? Is it best to alternate colors or have one solid color when tying harnesses? Is there one color that seems to be better than others. I personally use a lot of gold and red just wondering if im missing out?


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## Jim Stedke

Gary or Kevin will likely chime in, but for me chartreuse and orange are stds. but on others I try to match or compliment the blades. 

East I use white pink & blue w/ green & purple on the blades (smelt).

Then there is translucent or solid colors plus smooth or faceted.

So many choices, so little time.


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## Papascott

Jim hit that one on the head with bead colors. There is no wrong way as long as there is enough beads to keep the blade above the hook the possibilities of endless!


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## Saildog

Here is the pecking-order in which I place importance on bead color for any inline weights and harness fishing (starting with the most important):

1) Boat location (being on the fish)
2) Lure depth (inline weight size and lead length)
3) Lure/boat speed 
4) Harness/blade size/shape as it relates to boat speed and desired lure depth
5) Leader length
6) Color on the back of the spinner blade (shiny side)
7) Color on the front of the lure blade (painted side)
8) Bead color

That is not to say that color doesn't matter, just that you need to get everything else right first. I'd rather be fishing the "wrong" color at the right location, depth and speed than the "right" color anyplace else. 

I'm no expert, but maybe others can comment on this. I just think it helps to give some "weight" to the importance of the different variables.


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## Jim Stedke

Saildog, The right depth is my biggest concern as well. And with any weighted presentation, speed is a huge consideration because it has such a drastic effect on depth. 

That's why I promote Precision Trolling's books, and why I harp on tuning. 

Harnesses are somewhat like Dipsys and snap weighted cranks, in as much as they all have a built in vertical hunting action. I call it vertical swim. 

They all are impossible to hold at one certain depth, and even though we both consider depth to be the most important variable, holding study at that depth is often not as beneficial as a sinking presentation, dropping and raising through that zone.

It sounds like I'm saying 2 different things here, but I want guys to see that depth like speed is somewhat subjective, and precision is not the end-all. 

We need to be precise enough to get into the zone, and then allow or create some triggering motion.

I hope this makes sense. Come on Spring!!


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## ShutUpNFish

Being in the art industry, I once had a buddy of mine who is a glass blower, make me some clear glass spinners to match the sz. 4 as best he could. He did a great job and I tied up a few harnesses with clear EVERYTHING...beads, line, and even the blades....used chrome plated hooks....Couldn't find any clear (see through) crawlers , or would have tried those too, so had to use naturals.....Surprisingly enough these harnesses produced just as good as any colored harnesses I had! However, the glass blades did not last long after a few fish and broke easily against the boat floor. 

Just something for all you "color crazy" guys to think about....


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## eyesman_01

ShutUpNFish said:


> ....Couldn't find any clear (see through) crawlers , or would have tried those too, so had to use naturals.........


If you're still looking for clear crawlers, I could help you out. PM me.


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## ShutUpNFish

What knot do you guys prefer when attaching 30lb. 7 strand steel wire to your braid backing and/or your mono/fluoro leader?? I was thinking the albright knot myself....any other ideas? Thanks!


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## K gonefishin

In regard to colors of spinner rigs. 

When open water hits...dump a spinner overboard, call it chartruse beads with a gold blade. 

If you are a walleye looking at it from behind or from under it as a walleye is....what would you see? 

As the rig moves through the water the blade is spinning but since they are seeing it from under and behind the BACK of the blade is being seen much more as well as the beads. 

Beads and the back side of the blade. As far as reaching into my collection of crap on what I'm going to run...I consider the beads and back of blade being VERY important, front of the blade is as well but not as important as bead color or back of the blade.


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## Bluewalleye

This could be for anyone who is in the know. I normally only troll when fishing for walleye on Erie. But I have tried jigging on the reefs when the timing is right. But I have had very little success. I was wondering how exactly do you jig on the reefs? If there is enough wind to drift, do I throw my jig updrift? or do I throw it back and let the drift move the jig and just pop it? Also what kind of jigs are best and do I tip it with a real minnow or with gulp or something? Can I use blade baits like sonars and just jig them vertically? Thanks for anyone who responds.


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## wallydog

Bluewalleye said:


> This could be for anyone who is in the know. I normally only troll when fishing for walleye on Erie. But I have tried jigging on the reefs when the timing is right. But I have had very little success. I was wondering how exactly do you jig on the reefs? If there is enough wind to drift, do I throw my jig updrift? or do I throw it back and let the drift move the jig and just pop it? Also what kind of jigs are best and do I tip it with a real minnow or with gulp or something? Can I use blade baits like sonars and just jig them vertically? Thanks for anyone who responds.


Most use hair jigs...fuzzy grubs /twister tails also work...some don't tip the jigs with anything altho I always do..it can't hurt...Blade baits also work pretty good at times...with a fast drift I like to let down the jig right at the boat and work it out opening and closing the bail... hopping it off the bottom ...once it get's to far you have a hard time keeping the jig contacting the bottom....bring it in and drop again.... you also can pitch the jig out from the boat and hop it in....changing the weight of the jig to maintain bottom. for the right condition's is key..


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## Jim Stedke

Go to Happy Hooker Bait & Tackle and get 5/8 & 3/4 oz hair jigs w/stingers Purple, John Deered, and Butter Scotch. Bait them with a minnow and drag them behind the boat, hoping them off the bottom. Scented soft plastics work as well. As do blade baits. 

Good luck.


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## rod bender bob

Do all. Vertical jig, cast updrift, pop downdrift, jig the swing. Pop slow, rip it, hop it -- find out how they want it. Same with blades. If you just drag a jig you will usually get a lot of Zebra mussels


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## rickerd

Are you guys drifting right over the top of the reefs when jigging? Or just the sides and drop offs? or deeper bottoms? Are you drifting with drift socks? what speed are you trying to achieve? 
Thank you,
Rickerd


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## Jim Stedke

If you have a chart link on your GPS drift onto the reef in the area of the steepest slope, or where you going to pass through a cup or hit the tip of a point. These are the 3 key areas.

If there's a noticeable current, try the down stream side, same keys.

Speed is a personal preference thing but as usual I like to go fast up to 1.5 mph. So drift socks for me only if it's rough and you're going over 1.5. 

Hope this helps. Good luck.


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## eyebustor

Where are some good close ramps to launch from to acess the reefs? I would be coming from Detroit.


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## FreeByrdSteve

eyebustor said:


> Where are some good close ramps to launch from to acess the reefs? I would be coming from Detroit.


Fenwick / Turtle Creek / Wild Wings / all a couple miles WEST of Davis Besse Nuke Plant.

Local Tackle Shop is HAPPY HOOKER.


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## Jim Stedke

Seaguar's Tatsu Flourocarbon line. Anyone have any comments??


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## blue dolphin

Jim i havent even seen it is this a new one for this year??BD


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## Jim Stedke

Yes Gary, it is brand new and only available in 200 yd spools (I think) for around $40.00. They show Rod Maker Shoppe as a dealer, so they must have it or will be getting it.


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## bigmikeh2o

Do you guys have a strategy you use when trying to find fish?

I'm only ever able to get out 2-3 days a month and only on the weekends out of Port Clinton. I always have a hard time finding fish consistently. Before a trip I'll read up on as many reports as I can find and talk to the bait shop before going out to get an idea of were the fish were the few days before. When I'm out there I'll usually find a pack at the reported spots and look around but not see anything on the electronics both on structure(reefs, etc.) and in the areas around them. I'll run around the pack for a bit and sometimes see a few here and there and set up but don't usually get many. 

That's when I just randomly check out different spots that I read in reports over the previous few days. It usually ends the same way, I'll see a few marks but may only get a few or none.

Once a year we'll get lucky and get a quick limit. 25% of the trips we'll get maybe three or four fish total. The rest of the time one or no keepers.

I know generally about where the fish move at what time of year around the reefs and islands, I just can never find the good spots when we are out on the water and I always start to second guess myself when I'm driving around for most of a morning.

FYI we are drift fishers. Perch I can usually do ok, it's the walleye I have a problem with.

Thanks for your help.


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## K gonefishin

blue dolphin said:


> Jim i havent even seen it is this a new one for this year??BD


http://www.xtackle.com/SeaguarTatsu.aspx Here is some info on it.


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## blue dolphin

Thanks Kevin and Jim. Very pricey but I may have to try it just to see lol. BD


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## Jim Stedke

bigmikeh2o, If you like to cast, you probably should get into structure fishing. The shallow rock bite has been good the last couple years, and with some experience you'd learn, how to work a milk run, and not bother w/ packs. 

Electronics are key, and I'm assuming you have something decent and that you can see fish on plane. If not you need to update.

High fish, which are more common than most think, become tricky for casters to locate and work. They slide away from an approaching boat and are essentially unmarkable. When you working high fish or shallow rock fish, you'll not see them on the screen. To add to the problems high fish & rock fish will not tolerate noise or pressure. Most of the time if there are more than 2 or 3 boats in the area, they will get blown out.

The SW corner of N Bass (junk yard) has nice slope into the deep water, and just east (3 -400 yds) is a little underwater point that runs offshore. If you learn that area and figure out what the wind and currents do to the fish, it will be good to you. 

Shallow casters aren't going to post or talk about where they are catching because boat pressure is the last thing they want. You'll have to figure it out for yourself. 
Be safe, have fun, and be courteous. Good luck.


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## rickerd

Jim,
How do you "work a milk run" and what is a "milk run?"

Rickerd


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## Jim Stedke

A milk run is series of spots that you think may hold fish. 

Working a milk run is just organizing those spots into the most logical progression so that you are not running helltor skelltor all over the lake, to minimize travel time and maximize fishing time. 

Add to that making sure you are on your best spot and fishing during any major or minor solunar periods and you've upped your odds to do well that day.


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## rickerd

Are the major and minor solunar periods the full and new moon cycles? Do you think the barometer and their changes effect the fishing as much as the solunar periods? Does a falling barometer mean "get off the lake"?

Thanks again for sharing your intelligence,
Rickerd


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## Jim Stedke

Solunar periods occur every day. The duration is longer in full/new moon periods. The barometer effect is more subtle, but can have a bigger effect than solunar periods, depending on how fast and how much it changes. 

A rapidly falling barometer can mean get off, but a slight decline does not. 

If you're fishing in stormy cold front conditions, work slow & deep with worms. 

Good luck.


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## bigmikeh2o

Thanks Jim. The milk run suggestion helps. I would always go to the first place I had in mind then not really know where to go next.

For electronics we are using a Raymarine A65. We do lose the picture intermittently when on plane, but I think the transom mount transducer is mounted a bit to high and we get cavitation. I'm planning on working on it this spring.


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## tked1950

I'm bringing my two grand kids up in early May and was wondering if those strike indicator flags that can be attached to the Church boards might help them to know when they have a fish on. Do they work?


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## Jim Stedke

Yes they work, but I have no experience w/ Church's version. In general the flags are most useful for slower presentations and smaller (trash) fish. 

Extra good luck Grandpa.


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## Gottagofishn

No question at the moment......I just wanted to say that several years ago I thought I had all the answers, then I started fishing tournments. Well it's been several years since that awakening and I was startin to think I was getting pretty good at this again.
Then I read this thread. The amount of knowledge you guy's posess is amazing!
I want to thank all the contributors for sharing. I have learned from the posts and I can only imagine the time and cost you have saved the noobs in trial and error.
I am farily new to OGF and look forward to meeting some of you this year. Once again, thanks.


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## Jim Stedke

Gottago, There are 3 other seminars from the last 3 years. If you click on replies, your computer will show the threads with the most replies. The 4 seminars threads are right near the top of that 1st page. 

Many questions are asked more than once, but there are some things discussed in earlier threads that aren't in this years. 

Thanks for the positive comments. Good luck.


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## K&D

Thanks Jim and everyone for all of the great information. What I have gleemed from these posts and the outdoor shows and seminars is that when fishing for walleye in the early spring, the males tend to be on the reefs, and are fished vertically with jigs, jigging spoons etc. The large females are often caught off the reefs, trolling very slowly (e.g. 1.0 MPH) with shallow running RR's etc.

Any suggestions for improving odds of catching large females with a larger boat (can get down to 1.5 mph with 2 large bags and 1 engine)?


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## Jim Stedke

That's slow enough. If it's breezy and your downwind speed gets too high, try running into the wind w/ both engines while leaving both bags in the water.

Good luck.


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## Drift Away

Jim; Sometime back, I read that someone had printed out all posts from the online seminars. Since I'm starting from scratch, that sounds like a great idea. Can someone guide me as to a painless way to do that? Thanks for the great information!


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## Shed Hunter 365

Going to purchase a few wire line setups today for eyes. Any ideas on what type of wire, rod, reel.


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## Jim Stedke

I'd suggest going to the best tackle store in the area you're going to fish and speak w/them. Or just give them a call. 

Most use stranded wire around 30# test, but I'm not a wire line guy and I don't feel comfortable giving advise on the subject.


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## ReelTimeWes

This is my first year running big boards. What release do you recomend using? I see some guys make their own from shower rings and plastic clips. I'm a do-it-yourselfer and would like to make some if I had the right clips and pad material to start with.


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## Jim Stedke

PM sent. Hope this helps.


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