# Historical accounts of salmon??



## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

So I was at my local Cincinnati Public Library branch, checking out the local history section, and I came across something interesting. I found two accounts from settler times (though one _might_ have referenced the other, not sure) that the Mill Creek was "jumping with bass and salmon".
Now I am not trying to call anyone a liar, but I disagree with this species identification. Does anyone have any ideas?


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

walleyes/saugers were often called Jack Salmon in earlier times...

For some great reading about what types of fish were around pre-1900, check out the "Fishes of Ohio" by Milton Trautman, the ichthyology bible in these parts.. Available at Barnes and Noble and Amazon. A first edition will run you over $1k btw.... Ive had mine since 1983 ( HS Graduation present from my mom) and have worn it out. by far the best fishing book out of the 200 or so I own/read.

Salmonid


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## RNeiswander (Jul 6, 2008)

Not exactly on topic, but can you imagine what the rivers looked like a couple hundred years ago? The massive smallies that would have never seen a lure? That would be something to see!


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## BG Slayer (Feb 17, 2013)

Salmonid said:


> walleyes/saugers were often called Jack Salmon in earlier times...
> 
> For some great reading about what types of fish were around pre-1900, check out the "Fishes of Ohio" by Milton Trautman, the ichthyology bible in these parts.. Available at Barnes and Noble and Amazon. A first edition will run you over $1k btw.... Ive had mine since 1983 ( HS Graduation present from my mom) and have worn it out. by far the best fishing book out of the 200 or so I own/read.
> 
> Salmonid


1k for a book are you serious


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

RNeiswander said:


> Not exactly on topic, but can you imagine what the rivers looked like a couple hundred years ago? The massive smallies that would have never seen a lure? That would be something to see!


I've seen a fair amount of old pics from the lower LMR. In almost every pic, you can't see a single tree in the whole frame. Also, when I was in 3rd grade (remember it vividly for some reason) we were reading from our very outdated American History books and I remember something interesting. The book said Native Americans in southwest Ohio fed on 3 main species of fish: bass, catfish, and pike. Just like the Jack Salmon thing, I'm guessing they were referring to sauger. Even as an 8 year old, I was very skeptical about pike ever being here.


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

Also, ran into a few guys from the EPA doing electroshocking the other day. I asked them as many questions as they would let me. They were really nice guys and appeared to be just as interested in the river as I am. One of the many things I learned from them was that every species of sport fish outside of hybrid/striped bass and saugeye have been in the LMR since the glaciers. I guess that is not really surprising, but it blew my mind for some reason.


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## godukies (Sep 1, 2007)

RNeiswander said:


> Not exactly on topic, but can you imagine what the rivers looked like a couple hundred years ago? The massive smallies that would have never seen a lure? That would be something to see!


I have often thought the same thing. I also wondering if the rivers would be filled with downed trees blocking everything though. I recently fished the creek I often fished in as a boy over 30 years ago and it was filled with downed trees. It made it really hard to wade.


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## Dandrews (Oct 10, 2010)

montagc said:


> Garret, I hear walleye called walleyed pike. Makes sense.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I know people who refer to sauger as sand pike.


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## RNeiswander (Jul 6, 2008)

godukies said:


> I have often thought the same thing. I also wondering if the rivers would be filled with downed trees blocking everything though. I recently fished the creek I often fished in as a boy over 30 years ago and it was filled with downed trees. It made it really hard to wade.


I think it depends on the amount of flow and flooding the creek/river gets. They'll eventually get out of there, pushed out or rot out. The fish wouldn't care, the Indians might have cared haha.


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

They had to be logged. There are an abundance of trees lining the river and beyond on the lower LMR. Those hippies need to relax haha. Also, EPA guys told me the river is healthier now than it ever has been since they have been testing. It's hard to keep all the info straight that I got from them, but I believe he said 15 years or so ago all the wastewater plants on the LMR that needed it were updated. Since then, they have seen a steady increase in the health of the river.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Salmonid said:


> For some great reading about what types of fish were around pre-1900, check out the "Fishes of Ohio" by Milton Trautman, the ichthyology bible in these parts.. Available at Barnes and Noble and Amazon. A first edition will run you over $1k btw.... Ive had mine since 1983 ( HS Graduation present from my mom) and have worn it out. by far the best fishing book out of the 200 or so I own/read.
> 
> Salmonid


Need to check what edition I have.

I've met his brother btw...


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

Maybe they did mean sauger or walleye, though I have never seen one jump in my life. I did see "jack salmon" at a restaurant recently though. Salmonid, I will definitely have to check out that book, it sounds like a must have for my study.
As for the lack of trees around the early LMR, I am going to guess that it was a mix of logging and farmland clearing. My studies show that pretty much every single piece of land that could be farmed, was farmed, before it was urban/suburban/whatever. I found some interesting old pictures of my neighborhood when it was farmland. I couldn't even recognize it.


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## sammerguy (Jun 7, 2011)

kingofamberley said:


> Maybe they did mean sauger or walleye, though I have never seen one jump in my life. I did see "jack salmon" at a restaurant recently though. Salmonid, I will definitely have to check out that book, it sounds like a must have for my study.
> As for the lack of trees around the early LMR, I am going to guess that it was a mix of logging and farmland clearing. My studies show that pretty much every single piece of land that could be farmed, was farmed, before it was urban/suburban/whatever. I found some interesting old pictures of my neighborhood when it was farmland. I couldn't even recognize it.


I've seen two paintings of Four Mile in the late 1800's and there was not a tree in sight. All tilled farmland or roads.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

RNeiswander said:


> Not exactly on topic, but can you imagine what the rivers looked like a couple hundred years ago? The massive smallies that would have never seen a lure? That would be something to see!


The book I was reading talked about how wonderful the Mill Creek was in settler times. Apparently it was very beautiful and full of life. It had a poem in it that someone wrote about the Mill where the author mentions fishing it for bass, but if he didn't catch any he would still be satisfied with "a mess of shiners".


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

kingofamberley said:


> The book I was reading talked about how wonderful the Mill Creek was in settler times. Apparently it was very beautiful and full of life. It had a poem in it that someone wrote about the Mill where the author mentions fishing it for bass, but if he didn't catch any he would still be satisfied with "a mess of shiners".


There are groups of people trying to make the mill creek beautiful again. I have my doubts if that is possible or not. But I give them an a for effort.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

imalt said:


> There are groups of people trying to make the mill creek beautiful again. I have my doubts if that is possible or not. But I give them an a for effort.


I was standing on a bridge looking at the creek for a while during the summer. I saw the obligatory pods of large carp cruising around, but I also saw fish hitting the surface and jumping everywhere, as well as schools of baitfish. I think it could be fishable. It's just all the trash and tires and fecal bacteria... really a turnoff.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

montagc said:


> You mean, all those reports of giant smallies in the Mill were, gasp, false?


Maybe, maybe not  why don't you go fish there and find out?


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

There is a member of this board that has tried at least the lower end of that creek. I have thought many times about it but more concerning than the polution is needing your kevlar from the pulloff walking to the creek. And carrying the AK while fishing gets in the way of my casting stroke. So if anyone wants to stand guard for me I will give it a try. I am not scared.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

imalt said:


> There is a member of this board that has tried at least the lower end of that creek. I have thought many times about it but more concerning than the polution is needing your kevlar from the pulloff walking to the creek. And carrying the AK while fishing gets in the way of my casting stroke. So if anyone wants to stand guard for me I will give it a try. I am not scared.


Fishing for Mill Creek Salmon: the true combat fishing.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

I can honestly say Ive caught salmon out of the LMR...seriously....lets see who the first person is to back me up as I bet Im not the only one...Ole Stinky???

Salmonid


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

I really like your OGF name, if you look it up you get....

salm·o·nid 
adj.
Of, belonging to, or characteristic of the family Salmonidae, which includes the salmon, trout, and whitefish.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Ill give you a hint, it was in the late 70's early 80's and they were Coho salmon... we caught many of them...

OldStinky, yup when I was heavily into flyfishing, heavily involved with Trout Unlimited and guiding for Trout, in the wee early days of Internet, 92-94' I worked for Lexis Nexis and we had Internet from Day 1, and I was able to register as Salmonid on about every board I could find, easier to keep the moniker then change it to "whiskers" or something more appropriate these days...LOL


Salmonid


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