# Furled Leaders



## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

I tried the technique in the following Youtube video and my leader turned out pretty good! I stress that I'm still a novice fly caster and can't speak to the performance of the leader, but it seemed to "roll out" well when I made one of my infrequent good casts.

The hard part, for me, was keeping the untwisted portions separated as I twisted the strands. They tended to twist and tangle with each other prior to reaching my guide hand. Separating the untwisted portions through the rungs of a chair seemed to help, but I'm going to refine that a little more next time.

I stretched a 21' length, twisted the two 10.5' portions together, then brought the unlooped, raw end back toward the recently created looped end, but left about 30" of the looped end not included in the last twisting process. I finished off with the double-surgeon's knot as directed.

My first attempt was with fluorocarbon, I'm going to make a few more in both fluorocarbon and mono. I'll use 4 lb. test in both types for my 9', 4 weight rod. I'll use a single strand of matching line for the tippet.

Has anyone else out there tried furling their own leaders without a jig. Is there any advice concerning the method, or recommendations concerning ratio of leader size to line weight?






PS. Another tip I saw elsewhere was to use that black split pipe insulation from a home-improvement store for leader storage. The demonstrator stored several leaders on a 6 or 8" portion by inserting the butt-end in the slit, wrapping them, and then securing tippeted end with a hook poked into the foam. He stored the whole contraption in a zip-lock bag...looked pretty slick!


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm lost here. What is the point of these leaders?

Wouldn't it be easier, and less visible, taking bigger lines and tying them together? The leaders that I make for streamers are as follows:

25lb fluoro, 15lb fluoro, 10 or 8lb. I attach those using uni knots and they end up being very straight.


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## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

Again, I'm a novice, but the first thing that comes to mind is not needing several sizes of leader material, I guess. To each his own. The whole thing just seemed pretty clever as well as providing loop to loop connections which many seem to think is desirable, though I don't know why.

Thanks for responding!


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

tonoffish said:


> Again, I'm a novice, but the first thing that comes to mind is not needing several sizes of leader material, I guess. To each his own. The whole thing just seemed pretty clever as well as providing loop to loop connections which many seem to think is desirable, though I don't know why.


I'm a novice as well. However I've listened to what a lot of 'pros' have to say. 

As far as loop to loop connections are concerned, they are only desirable because most don't what to tie a nail knot. That is when you're tying a leader onto the flyline. That was me until I bought a tool that makes a nail knop a simple thing to do. That will give you less air resistance when casting.

I would think that the furled leader is a lot more visible to fish also. Sometimes we need to use 12ft leaders for spooky fish and clear water. In such a case I would use a regular tapered leader and not one that was put together with uni knots.

Just my $.02. I'm here to learn more!


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## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

On the subject of visibility I saw an odd post somewhere just yesterday! I think it was a website about fly fishing history. A century or so ago the fly-fishing icon Mr. Hardy, the British fly-rod and reel maker, theoretically, put the whole issue to rest. He floated dry flies to rising trout attached to lengths of various diameters of gut leaders with absolutely no difference in responses by the fish. His conclusion was that drag, not leader visibility, was the determinate factor in fooling the fish. Others, of course, have disagreed saying that the experiment was valid on *that* British chalk stream under the conditions existing at *that* time, and that there's *no* way his conclusions could be deemed *universal*, by any means.

I agree with the latter conclusion, but it does present questions concerning visibility. You'll have to forgive me, but I'm retired and have lots of time to immerse myself in (what I think) this fun stuff!


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

tonoffish said:


> On the subject of visibility I saw an odd post somewhere just yesterday! I think it was a website about fly fishing history. A century or so ago the fly-fishing icon Mr. Hardy, the British fly-rod and reel maker, theoretically, put the whole issue to rest. He floated dry flies to rising trout attached to lengths of various diameters of gut leaders with absolutely no difference in responses by the fish. His conclusion was that drag, not leader visibility, was the determinate factor in fooling the fish. Others, of course, have disagreed saying that the experiment was valid on *that* British chalk stream under the conditions existing at *that* time, and that there's *no* way his conclusions could be deemed *universal*, by any means.
> 
> I agree with the latter conclusion, but it does present questions concerning visibility. You'll have to forgive me, but I'm retired and have lots of time to immerse myself in (what I think) this fun stuff!


You're fine! I'm not trying to sound like a know it all!

I just want to catch fish! Conditions, presentation...that about summs it up.

I wish I was retired. You should consider joining a trout club if you enjoy fly fishing. I'd be out every day I'm sure if I could! I've been fly fishing for the last couple of years and I like it a lot more than anything else so far as fishing goes. There is soooo much involved compared to "the other type of fishing."

I recently bought a centrepin rod and reel and I'm going to give that a try for steelhead. That should be interesting. It's older than fly fishing but has a lot of the same principles.


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## toobnoob (Jun 1, 2010)

tonoffish said:


> I tried the technique in the following Youtube video and my leader turned out pretty good! I stress that I'm still a novice fly caster and can't speak to the performance of the leader, but it seemed to "roll out" well when I made one of my infrequent good casts.
> 
> The hard part, for me, was keeping the untwisted portions separated as I twisted the strands. They tended to twist and tangle with each other prior to reaching my guide hand. Separating the untwisted portions through the rungs of a chair seemed to help, but I'm going to refine that a little more next time.
> 
> ...


I make these leaders and they're not really furled but twisted. What they are really good for is turning over large flies or indicator setups. I use them on my steelhead setups but not on my 4wt where you want a very delicate presentation.

As you already know keeping the ends from twisting up is a big problem when making these and flouro is worse than mono as far as twist. The best method I&#8217;ve found is to do it over the kitchen table and let the ends hang over opposite sides on the table. You still get tangles but they&#8217;re not as bad.

The way I make them is to strip out about 3 or 4 full arms lengths of line to start with. I use 10# for a leader on my 8 wt. I end up with about a 3&#8217; butt section (4 strands) and about another 1&#8217; of the mid section (2 strands). I then pull off about 3&#8217; more of 10# and twist that together forming a 2 strand top with a loop and a 1 strand end that I tie a micro swivel onto and then connect the loops together to form the whole leader. You end up with leader about 7-8&#8217; long and ends with a single 10# line attached to the micro swivel. I then tie on about 2&#8217; of 8# and then a tippet of 6#. I hope that makes sence. I&#8217;ve made them without the swivel also but it&#8217;s just handier to have the swivel on and it&#8217;s so dang small it doesn&#8217;t effect anything.

The cool thing about this setup is that if you hang up you only have to retie below the swivel and you never touch the leader itself so the leader will last all season. For indicators I make the top part of the leader out of mono and the rest is flouro. The mono top floats better and flouro bottom sinks better. For swinging flies I use a full flouro leader so it sinks more and the swivel keeps from getting any line twist.


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## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

"they're not really furled but twisted"

Does "furled" mean it's weaved, or something?


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## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

toobnoob,

"they're not really furled but twisted"

Does "furled" mean it's woven, or braided, or something?


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## toobnoob (Jun 1, 2010)

tonoffish said:


> "they're not really furled but twisted"
> 
> Does "furled" mean it's weaved, or something?


Yes it's something like that. A furled leader has a gradual tapper to it unlike the twisted where you have a knot in it.


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

Lundfish said:


> You're fine! I'm not trying to sound like a know it all!
> 
> It's older than fly fishing but has a lot of the same principles.


no, its not "older" than flyfishing and its an entirely different beast.


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## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

Patricio said:


> no, its not "older" than flyfishing and its an entirely different beast.


I'd never even heard of it before *toobnoob* brought it up. So I googled it and was totally surprised; large, free-spool reels, long spey-like rods. I only watched one video, but it looked like the guy actually cast the bait and bobber like a giant upside-down bait-casting rig, but i may be mistaken.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

Patricio said:


> no, its not "older" than flyfishing and its an entirely different beast.


According to what I've read it does.

Read post #4. This is where I got the info from.

It is a different beast but it _does_ have a lot of the same principles like I said. When you are drift fishing with a fly rod, you are trying to present the fly in a natural, drag free manner. That _is_ the priciple behind centrepin fishing.

And yes it _does_ predate flyfishing.


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## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

Sorry guys, I should have said *Lundfish instead *of *Toobnoob* in post #12.


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## wabi (Jun 14, 2008)

The leaders in the video are all I use anymore.

I start with 18-21' of mono and stretch it to straighten it.
I then find the center, get out on the lawn, get the free ends on opposite sides of my body to separate them, and start twisting while slowly walking. The free ends dragging behind me in the grass tend to stay much straighter with far less twists & kinks. 

For my lighter rods (3-4wt) I use 8# mono, with about 30" doubled (the rest is quadrupled), then an 8# section of tippet about 2' long. I then surgeon knot a section of smaller tippet (another 2' or so of 3,4,or5X) for the fly to attach to.


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## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks for the "heads up" on the twisting process. I'll try your method. Everything went smoothly for me except for the tangling. I can imagine how the grass helps "comb" out the twists as you move along. I'm using 4 lb. fluorocarbon for my 4 weight setup. That's only because the guy at the fly shop, when I explained what I intended to do, said that he thought the thickness of the 4 lb. test quadrupled would make a good "hinge" transition from the thickness of the 4 wt. flyline, but he seemed a little doubtful about the whole concept of twisted leadering.


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## wabi (Jun 14, 2008)

Here's a pic of one from 8# mono on a WF4F line.


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## FishinBearcat (Jun 14, 2010)

I just purchased some furled leaders for steelheading up here in NE Ohio. I am a newbie and my knotting skills are sub-par to say the least. I thought that these leaders with the tiny ring on the end will help in changing flies and adding mono to the end where I can use a n easier knot. Thought? Is this something that works? Thanks


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## toobnoob (Jun 1, 2010)

FishinBearcat said:


> I just purchased some furled leaders for steelheading up here in NE Ohio. I am a newbie and my knotting skills are sub-par to say the least. I thought that these leaders with the tiny ring on the end will help in changing flies and adding mono to the end where I can use a n easier knot. Thought? Is this something that works? Thanks


That should work just fine for you. However it's always handy to have a few different knots up your sleeve.


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## tonoffish (Oct 10, 2011)

wabi said:


> Here's a pic of one from 8# mono on a WF4F line.


Your line to leader size transition is much smoother than mine. Looks like I should up-size my leader to 8 lb., too!

Thanks for the pic!


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