# Shootings



## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

All the shootings are really getting out of hand. I would never have imagined that would happen at Drag way 42. All of this over someone peeling out and slinging gravel.
And what's more, is, while watching the news, three or four more shootings took place today. I don't know how people can just believe that it's ok to take a life and then try to justify that with a self defense plea from idiots,criminals,and thugs. 
I know exactly what self defense is. Don't get me wrong, but I kinda feel like I'm a minority, because I don't own a handgun.
And a lot people owning them really shouldn't. I sure don't want to get shot, I already know what that's like. I have no desire to take another life. I believe in shooting as a way of fun or competition, but I feel those days are gone. To have to carry a weapon for self preservation is disturbing. I am really hoping that this post will not get out of hand also. And not go political either. It's just a matter of how dangerous it is to just go about your everyday life.


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

You reap what you sew ! When society does not teach their children respect and you have 25% of all marriages ending in divorce, the removal of prayer and defund the police along with turning felons loose well I don’t want to get political either so either by a handgun and learn to protect yourself or smoke a lot more dope and stay home and let the government send you some money. I guess the true answer is political so I’m not really going to discuss this anymore, I’d rather go fishing.


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## Parris Island (Mar 6, 2012)

Gun Violence Archive







www.gunviolencearchive.org





The above link is an excellent source of information. It is also nonpartisan. 
Be informed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Just goes to show you that there are assholes everywhere in today’s society.


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## snagless-1 (Oct 26, 2014)

*If you commit a crime and do not have to serve time,what's going to happen?You have to be held accountable for your actions.You see people on the news breaking windows,stealing,sucker punching people and there is nothing happening to them.......what the hell happened to our beautiful country? *


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Our society is chalked so full of violent criminals it is sad. We all better be aware and ready to protect yourself at all times.....unfortunate reality of life. The amount of violent crime is so high we don't have room to keep them locked up. I know recently of a multi-time offender that stabbed another lady a couple times and she only expects to serve 12 months of an 18 month sentence. She will hurt or kill somebody else after her release I guarantee it.


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Be cognizant of everything that surrounds you.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Do we really need to put them in jail? You shoot someone you got shot. You stab someone you get stabbed. You steal from people you get you hands lopped off. We are too soft. Most of all. Parenting sucks now. Sterilize these pathetic people that keep having kids that they won’t even raise properly.


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

Televised public hangings for murder with solid proof , video or DNA, eye witness
With who knows who's entering the country now it's only going to get worse..... evil is out there in force

I Agree with Bobk

as stated above you reap what you sow..... keep letting it happen you'll just get more starting at the top
This is the transforming of America ....Barry preached #44


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

I hope the Good Samaritan with the gun didn't injure or kill anyone. Sounds like he missed the perp but got the perp's truck a few times.


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

Living in a "free" society (at least comparatively) has pros and cons. Unfortunately, the desire to live in a free society is political because you have those who don't want a free society. I thank God for gun ownership even though there's danger that comes with it. The news focuses on the cons mostly, so you're getting a skewed version. But I hear you. No doubt these types of shootings are disturbing. If it's not shootings, then it would be something else. It's what bullet bob said. This is the fruit of a valueless group of people, which we've always have had, but it seems to be creeping more and more. What we don't need to be advocating is more laws and rules.- we don't need to empower politicians any more than we do. Instead, this is a "heart/soul" issue that we individually need to take stock in. In the meantime, buy a gun, get trained, become self-aware, avoid shady areas and remember nothing good happens after midnight.


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

The more good guys carrying a handgun the less the odds are of random attacks. Most thrives and attackers are cowards and prey on the weak. Most videos you see the moment they are met with resistance they usually run away. What ever crime you commit the punishment should be equal. Murder you get murdered. Let a kid starve you get starved to death. Steal get your hands cut off. Etc .... We are a society of wussies...


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## Dave_E (Apr 6, 2004)

It starts when they're kids and continues on and gets worse every generation.
How many grandparents out there raising their grandkids? They didn't raise their own children properly and model the behavior of a parent for them. Now that they're old, somehow they're magically better at parenting someone else's kid?

It's a vicious circle.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm all for the death sentence, for murderers,or even rapists an child molesters. But the hole steal and I chop off your hands is a bit overboard to me. I know many on here believe once a thief always a thief but that is not true. I'm a big believer in second chances in the right situation. And do believe there should be harsher punishment for theft. Even petty theft. But to think that if one of my kids make a mistake they could have a body part amputated is crazy. 
I got that second chance when I was a young adult. And was tonight from the beginning it wasn not right. And am thankful every day that I learned from my punishment. And became a better person from learning from my mistakes.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

you know what burns my A$$ besides a flame about 3 foot high people that suggest that every one that owns a gun is going to be involved in a mass shooting They advertise GUN VIOLENCE Stupid people It takes a person with hatred in their heart to take some ones live A gun is a tool no better or worse than any other tool an axe, a shovel or anything A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it I get up each Morning and walk by my gun cabinet and give it a hug and say Good job you guys you didn't get up and go kill someone today I guess I raised them right


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Saugeyefisher said:


> I'm all for the death sentence, for murderers,or even rapists an child molesters. But the hole steal and I chop off your hands is a bit overboard to me. I know many on here believe once a thief always a thief but that is not true. I'm a big believer in second chances in the right situation. And do believe there should be harsher punishment for theft. Even petty theft. But to think that if one of my kids make a mistake they could have a body part amputated is crazy.
> I got that second chance when I was a young adult. And was tonight from the beginning it wasn not right. And am thankful every day that I learned from my punishment. And became a better person from learning from my mistakes.


I agree a little kid for stealing candy or a person that has no food steals food different case altogether But some A hole who steals for profit cut his hand's off


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Upland said:


> I agree a little kid for stealing candy or a person that has no food steals food different case altogether But some A hole who steals for profit cut his hand's off


Like I said. I'm glad this isn't the case. Especially for first offense. Repeat offenders yes if you don't learn and correct your actions then so be it.


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## bulafisherman (Apr 11, 2004)

This is just the beginning....the mainstream media is one of societies biggest problem today.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

bulafisherman said:


> This is just the beginning....the mainstream media is one of societies biggest problem today.


Drunks with guns might be a close second.


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## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

bulafisherman said:


> (and I quote)
> This is just the beginning....the mainstream media is one of societies biggest problem today.


I quit reading newspapers in 1968, when I was in 'Nam & saw FIRST-HAND the lies & speculation the media reported (& still does) as fact. IMHO, Our judicial system is right there with 'em as far as societal problems go!
I remember once being SEVERELY punished by my Dad. When I told him it was "not fair", he said "That's right, but you won't do it again, will ya?"........Thanks Dad.

Mike


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## snagless-1 (Oct 26, 2014)

Remember not to long ago when someone stole a flea bitten horse the next day you hung?It all starts at home,in my house there were no p---y time outs.You did wrong you got an ass whoopin.When we got spanked we were told why and we learned.Nowadays the kids rule there parents.Our society is siding with the wrong doers.Put God back in everyone's life,have the kids say the pledge of allegiance,bring back paddling and discipline.If you can't follow these simple rules get the hell out of America. Let's all pray it gets better.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Amen my Dad would just look at me and I knew my A$$ was in trouble Kid's today listen to that rap music and video that Portrays police as the bad guys and drug dealers, pimps car jacker's are okay Red Skeleton did the pledge of allegiance years ago (look it up) and low and behold what he said happened so sad


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

Upland said:


> Amen my Dad would just look at me and I knew my A$$ was in trouble Kid's today listen to that rap music and video that Portrays police as the bad guys and drug dealers, pimps car jacker's are okay Red Skeleton did the pledge of allegiance years ago (look it up) and low and behold what he said happened so sad


Not all rap was bad but the majority is all gang related, dope dealing, misogyny, vulgar.


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## WETSHIRT (Jun 29, 2012)

The constitution ( of which I am a fan ) prevents cruel and unusual punishment. Amputation is a traditional Muslin punishment and outdated European as well. I like to think we are a little better than that. Internment and execution is a tried and true punishment if full terms are served and we quit trying to rehabilitate every criminal . Judges and prosecutors need to answer to the public and not serve, in some cases, lifetime appointments.


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## Ten Bears (Jan 12, 2012)

JamesF said:


> All the shootings are really getting out of hand. I would never have imagined that would happen at Drag way 42. All of this over someone peeling out and slinging gravel.
> And what's more, is, while watching the news, three or four more shootings took place today. I don't know how people can just believe that it's ok to take a life and then try to justify that with a self defense plea from idiots,criminals,and thugs.
> I know exactly what self defense is. Don't get me wrong, but I kinda feel like I'm a minority, because I don't own a handgun.
> And a lot people owning them really shouldn't. I sure don't want to get shot, I already know what that's like. I have no desire to take another life. I believe in shooting as a way of fun or competition, but I feel those days are gone. To have to carry a weapon for self preservation is disturbing. I am really hoping that this post will not get out of hand also. And not go political either. It's just a matter of how dangerous it is to just go about your everyday life.


Get rid of the electric chair and put in electric bleachers.


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## AmericanEagle (Aug 17, 2012)

I knew a guy years ago that spent a couple years working construction in Saudi Arabia. He said when they were done work for they day they just dropped their tools and they would be right where they left them the next morning. He felt there was so little theft because people didn’t want to risk having a hand amputated.

It may be cruel and unusual punishment but if he was telling truth it sounds like amputation is effective.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

AmericanEagle said:


> I knew a guy years ago that spent a couple years working construction in Saudi Arabia. He said when they were done work for they day they just dropped their tools and they would be right where they left them the next morning. He felt there was so little theft because people didn’t want to risk having a hand amputated.
> 
> It may be cruel and unusual punishment but if he was telling truth it sounds like amputation is effective.


Well I may sound cruel but I think they need to have public hangings and public executions this way once people view what could happen to them if they commit a heinous crime they may think twice before doing it but it seems the way it is now they glorify lawbreakers


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

I really don't know the how the legal system can manage to change the way people are. This is such a complex problem for any location. I grew up with the knowledge that being a good person makes a difference, and all the while children and juveniles were left to fend for themselves and do whatever they want. 
People want to blame video games, and many other things to cover up their own inadequacy, or just plain selfishness.
This is just my take on a very small portion of the behavior of those of whom commit these acts.
How this plays out for our society is a very serious issue. Are we as a society reverting back to the wild west were everyone carried a gun? All of this is very unsettling to me. 
I do have guns, but not the kind that I can use for an everyday carry. I guess I'm just a bit old-fashioned. 
Because we didn't have to lock our doors and live in fear,that sooner or later we will become a victim of crime. Having said that I am not living in fear,but I am aware of my surroundings. At least I believe so!


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## birdcrazy (Jan 15, 2014)

I find their shooting skills quite humorous. It's no wonder there is a shell shortage!
Last weekend Chicago had 55 people shot in one night only 5 died!! Most likely some of them were not intended targets. If they had to hunt for meat they would starve.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Called, Spray and Pray!


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

JamesF said:


> I really don't know the how the legal system can manage to change the way people are. This is such a complex problem for any location. I grew up with the knowledge that being a good person makes a difference, and all the while children and juveniles were left to fend for themselves and do whatever they want.
> People want to blame video games, and many other things to cover up their own inadequacy, or just plain selfishness.
> This is just my take on a very small portion of the behavior of those of whom commit these acts.
> How this plays out for our society is a very serious issue. Are we as a society reverting back to the wild west were everyone carried a gun? All of this is very unsettling to me.
> ...


I don't condone Video that promotes any type of criminal act's and I don't believe that a criminal should be able to say he didn't get hugs when he was little and get a lighter sentence


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

in reply to, Are we as a society reverting back to the wild west were everyone carried a gun? I would rather have a gun and not need it rather then need a gun and not have it Sometimes I wonder if people understand in today's advanced technical world we get media from around the world in a matter of minutes not day's shooting appear to be growing or is it? I don't know, what I do know is someone is going to get shot in Detroit tonight trouble spots will always be trouble spots


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Did they arrest the perp from the Dragway yet? The dead guy was with his brother and both were shot by someone.


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

I’m sad for our country. I think that we are done for. I just try to stay away from populated areas as much as I can and always pay attention to my surroundings. Growing up I never imagined that I would need to carry a gun to go out in public.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

I'm not sure about the drag way shooting. I'll look it up and see what is going on.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Snakecharmer said:


> Did they arrest the perp from the Dragway yet? The dead guy was with his brother and both were shot by someone.


I don't think so still in the wind as far as I know


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

WE, certainly cannot change the current situation in the USA by hashing it over and over and over again here.


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

I don't on a regular bases, carry..... usually when i take the boat and go fishing , coming back at dark ..... going to the cabin always have the woods gun (just in case)..... anymore just going to get gas,the store, and so on something could happen needing one , sad as it is .


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Specwar said:


> WE, certainly cannot change the current situation in the USA by hashing it over and over and over again here.


agree can't change the situation but sometimes something's need to be brought out and talked about it is a worry on a lot of peoples minds and hashing it over with a group of friend's sometimes makes it easier to digest


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

I’m getting too old to try to change the world, all I can do is control the environment I live in daily..yesterday is exactly that, behind me and unless something happened yesterday that has changed my or my loved ones life, let it be. I’ve got a lot of tomorrow’s yet to experience.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Specwar said:


> I’m getting too old to try to change the world, all I can do is control the environment I live in daily..yesterday is exactly that, behind me and unless something happened yesterday that has changed my or my loved ones life, let it be. I’ve got a lot of tomorrow’s yet to experience.


You will my friend crappie to catch LOL


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Yes indeed there are. Starting Thursday at Piedmont 😁😁😁😁😁


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## mike hunt (Jan 19, 2014)

Saugeyefisher said:


> I'm all for the death sentence, for murderers,or even rapists an child molesters. But the hole steal and I chop off your hands is a bit overboard to me. I know many on here believe once a thief always a thief but that is not true. I'm a big believer in second chances in the right situation. And do believe there should be harsher punishment for theft. Even petty theft. But to think that if one of my kids make a mistake they could have a body part amputated is crazy.
> I got that second chance when I was a young adult. And was tonight from the beginning it wasn not right. And am thankful every day that I learned from my punishment. And became a better person from learning from my mistakes.


You would think differently if you had something significant stolen from you, I would be good with the death penalty for stealing.


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## Morrowtucky Mike (May 2, 2018)

mike hunt said:


> You would think differently if you had something significant stolen from you, I would be good with the death penalty for stealing.


About 20 yrs ago I had over $12k in Snap-on tools stolen out of my shop. Just so happened to be 3 days after I had to put my Rottweiler down. I cannot honestly say that I believe that person/people deserve to die !


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## mike hunt (Jan 19, 2014)

Morrowtucky Mike said:


> About 20 yrs ago I had over $12k in Snap-on tools stolen out of my shop. Just so happened to be 3 days after I had to put my Rottweiler down. I cannot honestly say that I believe that person/people deserve to die !


Sorry for your loss, especially your dog. My loss was quite a bit more than $12k, it happened 14 years ago and I think about it almost every day, and our justice system is a POS


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

mike hunt said:


> You would think differently if you had something significant stolen from you, I would be good with the death penalty for stealing.


I have... And I don't.... I guess when your the one that gets the second chance you see things different🤷....


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## mike hunt (Jan 19, 2014)

Saugeyefisher said:


> I have... And I don't.... I guess when your the one that gets the second chance you see things different🤷....


I don’t need a second chance when it comes to stealing


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

mike hunt said:


> I don’t need a second chance when it comes to stealing


..


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Saugeyefisher said:


> I did. And I'm glad you don't. And I thank got we live in a great country that gave it to me.


I served my punishment,I learned from it. I never did it again.... And I had a good mom and dad that tried teaching me right from wrong. I did what lots of us did. I made a crucial mistake. I paid for it. I learned from it....


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

This shooting is still under investigation.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

all I can say is wow, I'm surprised this hasn't been shut down, you guys are making WAY to much sense


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## Moo Juice (Jan 20, 2021)

I get being bitter from getting wronged and I also believe in being punished for wrong doing. However, I do know people who made poor choices in their younger years, did their time and totally turned their lives around. Granted it's probably a small percentage of the incarcerated but there are some success stories. My personal beliefs don't allow me not to forgive but they also say, "spare the rod, spoil the child." This is where we can all do our part. I'm sure most of us know of kids who need mentors. Don't have to look to hard to find kids with lousy parents. Our last two hot stove games revealed quite a few. If we take these kids fishing or introduce them to the outdoors, then we can use that time to be a positive influence and teach them morals and responsibility and turn them off of the path they otherwise are destined to walk. Just a thought.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Moo Juice said:


> I get being bitter from getting wronged and I also believe in being punished for wrong doing. However, I do know people who made poor choices in their younger years, did their time and totally turned their lives around. Granted it's probably a small percentage of the incarcerated but there are some success stories. My personal beliefs don't allow me not to forgive but they also say, "spare the rod, spoil the child." This is where we can all do our part. I'm sure most of us know of kids who need mentors. *Don't have to look to hard to find kids with lousy parents.* Our last two hot stove games revealed quite a few. If we take these kids fishing or introduce them to the outdoors, then we can use that time to be a positive influence and teach them morals and responsibility and turn them off of the path they otherwise are destined to walk. Just a thought.


BINGO!!!
And I'll add to the above that those 'lousy parents' should feel extreme consequences for being the lousy parents they are.
Like the 'parents' of the 16yr old that has had a warrant out for his arrest since Sunday evening for being the prime suspect in the random shooting of the 4yr old boy and 7yr old girl last Sat. that were riding their bikes.
Are you kidding me!!! 
If the 16yr old had decent parents...or for that matter...just one decent parent...the law wouldn't still be looking for him. They would have went to his house last Sun evening and picked him up or asked the parents/parent where he was and went and got him. Nope...LE can't do that cause nobody knows where the kids at.
Fact most likely is...just like for most of the 16yrs kids life...the so called parents/parent dont know where the kids at and for that matter...as long as he's not disturbing them...really don't care where he is.
And if it's a case in which the parents can't control him any longer...they are still in the wrong because they haven't fulfilled their obligations as a parent and petitioned the courts deeming him incorrigible.

While courts may be an easy target as far as 'the blame game' and they have to bear some of the blame as far as handing out light sentences or way too much plea bargaining after the fact the parents failed miserably and let the streets raise their child from the time the child was born....bottom line...its not the courts, law enforcements or 'the systems' responsibility to raise kids. Again...that burden is put on them after the parents have totally let the child grow from time of birth...into a juvenile/adult thug.
Don't buy 'the poverty' crap either as far as placing blame on these kids left to be raised by the streets.
Know way too many people that have grown up in poverty stricken areas that turned out to be very productive members of society. And before some start throwing rocks at me for making that statement...unless you've lived there...save it.
Been there...done that.
Used to be an old sayin about having dirty clothes or not bathing property when it came to being poor.
Saying was 'being poor was no excuse for being dirty...soap don't cost that much and that bar of soap cleans a poor mans skin same as a rich ones.'
Same goes with being poor and raising kids.
Lack of $ is no excuse for not knowing where your kids are at or lessens the responsibilty of being a parent.
$...or lack thereof doesn't teach good morals.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

I cringe just a bit at about every third post in this thread. What some of you are asking for in regard to law enforcement, punishment, etc.etc. is exceedingly excessive and is about 1,000 steps backward from what should happen in a modern society like that in which we live. In fact, it borders on downright horrific. Folks that wish for public executions are asking to become a part of a Police State. Who wants to watch folks hang in public? Who wants to see hands cut off? Public firing squads? Really? What type of person says such things? 

The use of the old cliche' "Spare the rod, spoil the child" sure sounds good until we read of horror stories of kids and their Moms being beaten to death by males in the home who were just "teaching them some respect." If we could trust that Dad or Mom would stop at a butt-swat to their 8 year old for not listening, things wouldn't be so bad. But we can't, because a lot of folks can't stop at just one swat on the butt and what ends up happening is kids get hurt or in some cases killed. You aren't loving your kid by hitting them. Stop with that nonsense. 

The "my way or the highway" mentality works for YOU, not everyone else around you. So many have no clue as to what it is like to grow up in an environment in which there is absolutely no hope of a future. Someone earlier asked "I just don't understand how folks can shoot one another and care so little about other people." Well, a lot of the folks doing the shooting have never been cared for in their entire lives. Folks who say these things also say "well, they could just get a job like the rest of us.." Sure. Tell me more. You go to bed with a roof over your head and a full belly. Millions of folks in this Country don't close their eyes in the same place back to back nights, don't have enough to eat, and hell....aren't even sure if they'll live to see tomorrow. If you are hungry, you will do what you need to do to eat. If you are scared, you will fight whomever and whatever you need to survive. In these situations there is no empathy for others because being honest, nobody gives two %^%$ about them, so why should they care about you, your family, or the dude who lives across the street? 

Theft, drugs, prostitution, etc. etc. is a way of life for millions in this Country. It's a violent, unstable, short-lived, self-centered existence. It has been supported by the ruling culture since the beginning of time. It's the ultimate game of Survivor, or an even better representation is the Hunger Games. At some point in the near future, many of the major cities will be devoid of any wealth, organization, or law. It's happening already right in front of us in places like San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, New York, Detroit, and Los Angeles. California itself is a good example of elected officials not giving one damn about the people who elected them. And it is spreading....further and further. More and more folks are moving away from the cities and the element of society that fills in behind them is poorly educated, does not work, does not want to work, does not trust nor care for others, and expects the government to take care of them. And the government does, and in return these folks will vote for more government. But at some point, a level of saturation is reached....and we are almost there in my opinion. Eventually, all of the giveaways, free food, free money, etc. etc. won't matter because in the end, a lot of those folks will be in the same situation they have been in for all of their lives. 

While I am saddened to see all of this play out, it does tell a lot about how things are right now in our Country. A lot folks are tired man...tired of being turned away, tired of being pushed down, tired of being bullied, and tired of putting up with the BS. So, they lash out in the only way that gets noticed, and that is with violence. A peaceful march does nothing anymore. If you want to get your point across, you gotta be loud, and in all honesty they don't really care who they hurt, what they burn down, or even who gets killed because quite frankly as I stated earlier, nobody cares about them and maybe, just maybe, that violence in which they participated will bring about some change. It's the literal "cost of doing business" for them. 

To be clear, I do not condone the behavior, but I completely understand why it happens. I have exactly zero solutions to these societal issues but I know for sure that many of the suggestions that have been made in this thread are not the solution. We have seen over the past 15 months that giving people things for free does not stop them from shooting each other, beating each other, rioting, stealing, etc. etc. In fact, it probably made things worse because now we have an entirely new group of folks who were once working but given what has transpired as of late could care less if they ever go back because they believe the government will take care of them. The government will remind them (in one way or the other) when it comes time to vote again. We scratched your back, now scratch ours. 

This Country has never been more divided than it is today. It is a sad state of affairs to endure. 

In recorded history, most "modern" or "dominant" civilizations made it about 200 years give or take before they collapsed. The USA (and Western Europe) is living on borrowed time at this point. Change is coming (again) whether we like it or not. 

At some point, the ants out-number and over-power the grasshoppers.


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## Moo Juice (Jan 20, 2021)

I agree that a segment of our society is "suppressed" by our elected "leadership". However, we still live in a country where you have the ability to change your situation if you don't like it. Yes, it's easier said than done and probably hard for people who never have had positive influence in their lives. That's why I suggested mentoring in my last post. None the less, your anger at life doesn't give you the right to riot or burn down buildings or steal. There are consequences to your actions. Hence the term, "spare the rod spoil the child". Punishment for wrong doing wether corporal or other, teaches us right from wrong. And I've seen a lot of kids punished by "time outs" that never quite figured it out. Yes, no one condones violence towards children and if you can't tell the difference between paddling and beating then please don't reproduce. Being soft on crime and defunding the police isn't helping anyone and when civil unrest spills into the suburbs then unfortunately some hard lessons will be learned quite quickly. The point is, if we can reach children in their influential years and teach them respect and right from wrong then these problems can be mitigated. Trust me, plenty of unsavory people are trying their best to reach these kids. Let's "beat" them to the punch.


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Every Tom, Dick, Harry, Mary, Tammy, and even the undecided, 2 years Military upon reaching the age of 18. NO EXCEPTIONS.


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## Morrowtucky Mike (May 2, 2018)

BFG said:


> I cringe just a bit at about every third post in this thread. What some of you are asking for in regard to law enforcement, punishment, etc.etc. is exceedingly excessive and is about 1,000 steps backward from what should happen in a modern society like that in which we live. In fact, it borders on downright horrific. Folks that wish for public executions are asking to become a part of a Police State. Who wants to watch folks hang in public? Who wants to see hands cut off? Public firing squads? Really? What type of person says such things?
> 
> The use of the old cliche' "Spare the rod, spoil the child" sure sounds good until we read of horror stories of kids and their Moms being beaten to death by males in the home who were just "teaching them some respect." If we could trust that Dad or Mom would stop at a butt-swat to their 8 year old for not listening, things wouldn't be so bad. But we can't, because a lot of folks can't stop at just one swat on the butt and what ends up happening is kids get hurt or in some cases killed. You aren't loving your kid by hitting them. Stop with that nonsense.
> 
> ...


In THIS country people who WANT to change their lives CAN. PERIOD…. There are no excuses imo. I could type a full page also about why and how I feel this way but I feel 99% of the people here already know what I would say.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Specwar said:


> Every Tom, Dick, Harry, Mary, Tammy, and even the undecided, 2 years Military upon reaching the age of 18. NO EXCEPTIONS.


As a second generation active duty medic of a foreign war this is not only unconstitutional but a horrible idea. The last person I want watching my back is someone who was forced into doing so. This thread has gotten outta control when will the mods step in?


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Smitty82 said:


> As a second generation active duty medic of a foreign war this is not only unconstitutional but a horrible idea. The last person I want watching my back is someone who was forced into doing so. This thread has gotten outta control when will the mods step in?


As a four combat tour in Viet Nam Navy Seal, who while in high school was definitely headed down the WRONG ROAD, I totally disagree with you. I should have been locked up for some of the **** I was involved in prior to enlisting. The Navy was my salvation, and has enabled me to become an asset to society.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Specwar said:


> As a four combat tour in Viet Nam Navy Seal, who while in high school was definitely headed down the WRONG ROAD, I totally disagree with you. I should have been locked up for some of the **** I was involved in prior to enlisting. The Navy was my salvation, and has enabled me to become an asset to society.


as a navy seal you aren’t forced to trust your back to someone who didn’t want to be there. That’s the difference.


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Smitty82 said:


> as a navy seal you aren’t forced to trust your back to someone who didn’t want to be there. That’s the difference.


You’re missing the point. The military turned my life around from where I was headed.
If it can do that for me, it can do the same for others.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Specwar said:


> You’re missing the point. The military turned my life around from where I was headed.
> If it can do that for me, it can do the same for others.


I’m not missing the point. I have friends that had the choice to either go to jail or join the military. My dad was drafted. I understand that the military is an exceptional builder of character. I just don’t see forcing kids (and yes if your 18 you might legally be an adult but your still a kid really) into the military path. It’s just not for everyone.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

I’ll never regret joining, some of the best and worst times of my life. I got to experience a lot of things and travel places I otherwise never would have. Paid for my college, and opened the door for a career path for me to build and provided for a family. But these were all because of my personal choices, not because I was forced to do them.


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Whatever


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Military for punishment? Hmmm I kinda like that... Forcing everybody no matter what at 18 to join...I don't think that'll work...


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Morrowtucky Mike said:


> In THIS country people who WANT to change their lives CAN. PERIOD…. There are no excuses imo. I could type a full page also about why and how I feel this way but I feel 99% of the people here already know what I would say.


Well stated. Everyone knows right from wrong and no person needs to go hungry in this country. Many choose that way of life. 70% of the stores I visit every day at work have job openings. These people choose the life they are living and the illegal choices they make. It’s a choice NOT a way of life. The opportunity to have a good life in this country is open to all.


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Never mentioned punishment and military in the same breath. All I’m saying is that it’s a great avenue to change one’s disposition.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Specwar said:


> Never mentioned punishment and military in the same breath. All I’m saying is that it’s a great avenue to change one’s disposition.


I didn't say you did. I was asking with out going back and re reading posts. Just skimmed through at first. I understand now. 
And agree it is a great avenue. But don't agree with the every tom dick an harry. That's all.
I know several people that wouldn't be who they are with out the military.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

How about a firing squad for punishment?








2 South Carolina executions halted until firing squad formed


The South Carolina Supreme Court on Wednesday blocked the planned executions of two inmates by electrocution, saying they cannot be put to death until they truly have the choice of a firing squad option set out in the state’s newly revised capital punishment law.




www.foxnews.com


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

BFG said:


> The use of the old cliche' "Spare the rod, spoil the child" sure sounds good until we read of horror stories of kids and their Moms being beaten to death by males in the home who were just "teaching them some respect." If we could trust that Dad or Mom would stop at a butt-swat to their 8 year old for not listening, things wouldn't be so bad. But we can't, because a lot of folks can't stop at just one swat on the butt and what ends up happening is kids get hurt or in some cases killed. You aren't loving your kid by hitting them. Stop with that nonsense.


swatting a kid on his back side and beating them to death are two entirely different things i mean really...
my kids got 3 chances the third time they knew they were gonna get a smack on the a$$, and they turned out fine.
i suggest you talk to a few teachers and school aids and see how you feel...my girlfriend is an aid and bus driver , she literally had a first grader tell her to ""shut the f - - k up ....a first grader !! ! ! ! ! ! ! when i was younger that aid would have called my parents and i would have got my a$$ smacked good when i got home....not today....


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Lazy 8 said:


> How about a firing squad for punishment?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know you posted that just for the sake of discussion but....Options???
That...in part...is exactly what's wrong with things today.
If criminals were found guilty of crime dictating their execution...they gave up their 'options' and rights when they committed their offense.

Even though this elderly 74 yr old woman that was asleep in her Apartment when attacked lived...if this guy is convicted without doubt...the animal should be put to death and should not have any 'options' as to the means of his demise:





__





Loading…






www.richlandsource.com




74/article_f846a4b2-cb9c-11eb-85a6-b7e9b7a48be9.html


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## DUCKHEAD (Apr 28, 2007)




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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

I feel like the biggest issue we have in this country are the amount of people with heart problems, and the only real cure for the heart is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Before covid the national church attendance was on a declining slope, and covid made it worse. the national average for church attendance i think is below 47%. In order to fix the issues we have in this world people need to have a personal relationship with Christ.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

amen X 1,000 smitty


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## One guy and a boat (Aug 8, 2018)

Smitty82 said:


> As a second generation active duty medic of a foreign war this is not only unconstitutional but a horrible idea. The last person I want watching my back is someone who was forced into doing so. This thread has gotten outta control when will the mods step in?


Early 80's US Army here. Stationed in then West Germany. Spent a month in field with a platoon of Israeli soldiers. Both male & female. All doing there 2 year obligation. I know a small sample size, but never heard any of them complaining about being forced into duty. Bunch of bad a**es actually.

Kip


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

One guy and a boat said:


> Early 80's US Army here. Stationed in then West Germany. Spent a month in field with a platoon of Israeli soldiers. Both male & female. All doing there 2 year obligation. I know a small sample size, but never heard any of them complaining about being forced into duty. Bunch of bad a**es actually.
> 
> Kip


I don't doubt it. I've heard Israeli soldiers are very disciplined. Maybe i feel the way i do about it because of the generation we have now. I just dont see forced military service changing the problems we have in this country. I guess also when i joined there was a huge boom in recruitment so there was no need to force anyone... there was alot of motivation and pride in joining. My experience differs from others however. i don't know maybe I'm wrong. 🤷‍♂️


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## Moo Juice (Jan 20, 2021)

Right or wrong. Thank you to all you guys who served. No matter how or why you joined, I personally appreciate the fact that you gave up part of your life to keep us all safe at home. Thank you.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

First, you are not going to see it on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, or wherever you prefer to get your propaganda, but violent crime has been trending down in the US for around 30 years.

Second, it is absolute madness to believe that child abuse, public executions, torture, mutilation, or forced religion are somehow the answers to a better civilization.

Third, look at upward income mobility in the US since 1940, and GDP per capita vs median income since 1970.

Finally, not everyone is built for the military, but military service should be a prerequisite for holding any office that has the power to put troops in harm’s way.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

fastwater said:


> I know you posted that just for the sake of discussion but....Options???
> That...in part...is exactly what's wrong with things today.
> If criminals were found guilty of crime dictating their execution...they gave up their 'options' and rights when they committed their offense.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 110%. I just never knew a firing squad still existed.


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## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

Arrest made in deadly shooting at Wayne County dragway


WAYNE COUNTY, Ohio (WJW) – An arrest warrant has been issued for a Cleveland man deputies say was involved in Sunday’s shooting death at Dragway 42. Wayne County Sheriff officials say Jonathan…




fox8.com


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

TRIPLE-J said:


> swatting a kid on his back side and beating them to death are two entirely different things i mean really...
> my kids got 3 chances the third time they knew they were gonna get a smack on the a$$, and they turned out fine.
> i suggest you talk to a few teachers and school aids and see how you feel...my girlfriend is an aid and bus driver , she literally had a first grader tell her to ""shut the f - - k up ....a first grader !! ! ! ! ! ! ! when i was younger that aid would have called my *parents* and i would have got my a$$ smacked good when i got home....not today....


I bolded the key term here. You want to look to the root of the issue, you need look no further. Where there is no family, no mentors, and no guidance, there will be no empathy, respect, or discipline. It's that simple. 

A male lion breeds with the vast majority of the females in the pride. Said male lion has nothing to do with rearing the offspring, as that all falls upon the females, but there is little to no male interaction (contrary to what we all were told by Simba and Mufasa). At some point, the young males are exiled from the pride to fend for themselves. How do they get established with a new pride? By killing the alpha-male. Violence is the only solution to the problem. 

It is extremely important for kids, especially boys, to have positive male figures in their lives while growing up. Unfortunately, there are far too many kids with Dads they never meet. The result is an entire population of young, angry, aggressive kids (especially the boys) that only think of themselves and what they need to do to survive. Theft, drugs, gangs, etc. etc.and producing more kids who will never know their Dad, and if they don't end up in prison, are not likely to live to see age 40. It is a whirlpool of a vicious cycle, and it is a fundamental cause of many of the problems that we endure in our society today. 

If violent crime is down in our Country, I hate to think what it once was in the past.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

If your interested to know how violent this country used to be read "That Dark and Bloody River" by Allen Eckert. It might be considered fiction but all of the stories he writes about did happen and he has the sources and documentation to prove it.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Redheads said:


> Arrest made in deadly shooting at Wayne County dragway
> 
> 
> WAYNE COUNTY, Ohio (WJW) – An arrest warrant has been issued for a Cleveland man deputies say was involved in Sunday’s shooting death at Dragway 42. Wayne County Sheriff officials say Jonathan…
> ...


Thank you! I was wondering when they were going to make an arrest. Sounds like he took some lead from the Good Samaritan.


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

BFG said:


> I bolded the key term here. You want to look to the root of the issue, you need look no further. Where there is no family, no mentors, and no guidance, there will be no empathy, respect, or discipline. It's that simple.
> 
> A male lion breeds with the vast majority of the females in the pride. Said male lion has nothing to do with rearing the offspring, as that all falls upon the females, but there is little to no male interaction (contrary to what we all were told by Simba and Mufasa). At some point, the young males are exiled from the pride to fend for themselves. How do they get established with a new pride? By killing the alpha-male. Violence is the only solution to the problem.
> 
> ...


so what does that have to do with whether a kid gets a swat on the a$$ or is beaten to death as you posted earlier ????
i agree there is no parenting in alot of situations in this country and that is a huge problem 
but to say a kid shouldnt get a swat on the a$$ when it is deserved because some out there will beat their kids to death is just as much part of the problem as the very point you are trying to make
and btw, the lioness disciplines their cubs when they do something wrong


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## One guy and a boat (Aug 8, 2018)

Smitty82 said:


> I don't doubt it. I've heard Israeli soldiers are very disciplined. Maybe i feel the way i do about it because of the generation we have now. I just dont see forced military service changing the problems we have in this country. I guess also when i joined there was a huge boom in recruitment so there was no need to force anyone... there was alot of motivation and pride in joining. My experience differs from others however. i don't know maybe I'm wrong.


I do agree with you on the times being different and a 2 year commitment not being liked. Just like raising kids, what they like and what's good for there growth doesn't always match. Overall a 2 year commitment would be a plus. The problem I see with it, does the US need that many soldiers and could they afford it.

Kip


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

One guy and a boat said:


> I do agree with you on the times being different and a 2 year commitment not being liked. Just like raising kids, what they like and what's good for there growth doesn't always match. Overall a 2 year commitment would be a plus. The problem I see with it, does the US need that many soldiers and could they afford it.
> 
> Kip


Two years of discipline and instructional training of some sort, perhaps civil engineering training that could be done on the nations highways, parks, any government owned structure. The future of this country will be shaped by those that have a trade. Think about it.


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Let alone the $$$$ that would be saved by doing the work that otherwise would be allotted to private contractors, that we all know are over paid and under worked on government projects.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

One guy and a boat said:


> I do agree with you on the times being different and a 2 year commitment not being liked. Just like raising kids, what they like and what's good for there growth doesn't always match. Overall a 2 year commitment would be a plus. The problem I see with it, does the US need that many soldiers and could they afford it.
> 
> Kip


Yea that’s a good point about affording it. It’s not just paying more soldiers it’s also room and board, more trainers, bigger facilities, more health care, more college, and later more people flooding the va. It’s a lot more complicated than saying let’s have everyone physically able to, do minimum 2 years.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Specwar said:


> Let alone the $$$$ that would be saved by doing the work that otherwise would be allotted to private contractors, that we all know are over paid and under worked on government projects.


I both agree and disagree with this. Yes there are a ton of jobs that the government could save money on but having ad,g, or reserve do rather than pay a contractor. However there are just as many jobs and contracts out there that are specialized that we have no choice but to have contractors do them. You also have to take into account the economic effect it has on a state and community. Wright patt is a prime example. It’s one of largest civilian employers in the state.


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Hell, just give the $$$ to all the lazy assed druggies and border crossers and forget anything I said about mandatory military for everyone. Glad I’m an old SOB


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Specwar said:


> Hell, just give the $$$ to all the lazy assed druggies and border crossers and forget anything I said about mandatory military for everyone. Glad I’m an old SOB


Little extreme don’t you think? Good Grief 🤣


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## Moo Juice (Jan 20, 2021)

I think there is merit to all these points. First of all, I'm guessing that most of the individuals we are referring to are already being cared for by our tax dollars so getting some work out of them would be a better return on investment anyway. So let's change the narrative a little and not include everyone because many of us are capable of being productive citizens on our own. We'll just say a "group of individuals who can't seem to make it through life on their own." I have no problem asking those being provided for, which includes the incarcerated, to work for their assistance. Since I seem to be big on cliche's, "if you don't work, you don't eat." Now sure, there are the truly disabled and mentally handicapped who can't contribute but there are a lot of able bodies, who we provide for, who may need a little nudging to be productive. Work programs just might help them find purpose and add some meaning to their lives. If you keep bringing food to a obese person, you aren't helping them. Your only making their problems worse.


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## One guy and a boat (Aug 8, 2018)

I was thinking of a 2 year forced obligation in military terms. And thought that would be expensive and what use for so many soldiers. Some of you guys may have a point in a forced 2 year commitment to a public works project. I could see the value of that as long as the focus of the project was mainly to create productive citizens. As a bonus if we got some infrastructure built, national defense etc , that would be a good thing. The real goal should be making a productive citizen for the next 50 years or so. That will help this country more than any roads they could build.

Kip


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

I think something else would be getting kids off the idea that you must take on huge amounts of debt going right into college. If we focused a lot of high schoolers into the skilled trades it would be a huge benefit to our country. The problem however is the younger generation doesn’t seem to want to work. I’m sure there are people on here in the local unions, I’d love to hear their option on this.


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

Morrowtucky Mike said:


> In THIS country people who WANT to change their lives CAN. PERIOD…. There are no excuses imo. I could type a full page also about why and how I feel this way but I feel 99% of the people here already know what I would say.


It's like now they're saying homeownership in some areas isnt what it should be. Well, 1, you need to work. 2, you need a job that isnt selling drugs. 3, some people dont want to live a life free of crime.


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty82 said:


> I think something else would be getting kids off the idea that you must take on huge amounts of debt going right into college. If we focused a lot of high schoolers into the skilled trades it would be a huge benefit to our country. The problem however is the younger generation doesn’t seem to want to work. I’m sure there are people on here in the local unions, I’d love to hear their option on this.


I'm 38 and manage a fast food place and sometimes thing of going to a trade school albeit, really late. They need workers and I'm tired of people feeling more entitled to everything and throwing fits over slushy at McDonalds. Customers are jerks.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

matticito said:


> I'm 38 and manage a fast food place and sometimes thing of going to a trade school albeit, really late. They need workers and I'm tired of people feeling more entitled to everything and throwing fits over slushy at McDonalds. Customers are jerks.


The customer is why you have a job...it is what it is I guess...take the bad with the good...


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

Shad Rap said:


> The customer is why you have a job...it is what it is I guess...take the bad with the good...


Lol


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## Moo Juice (Jan 20, 2021)

Or, do something to improve your situation which is kinda what we've been alluding to.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

matticito said:


> I'm 38 and manage a fast food place and sometimes thing of going to a trade school albeit, really late. They need workers and I'm tired of people feeling more entitled to everything and throwing fits over slushy at McDonalds. Customers are jerks.


Do it man! Only takes two years! See if the place you work now offers reimbursement?
I got lucky with the job I got. But do believe hard work put me in the position to luck into this job.
Out of highschool I worked at a subway. Then asked my uncle if he would teach me the trade of flooring. Did that for a year before I realized that wasn't for me. Plus working for family sucked. His son also worked with us an often got paid way more for doing the exact same thing. At the same pace and quality. So I got a warehouse job stuffing envelopes. Yeah that SUCKED! like really bad. So BORING! So I went back to subway. But by that time got used to making better money laying floor. So off to big lots for 2 dollars an hour more. And hoping for a manager position eventually. One day why working the register a lady comes in. Recognized me from subway an said,"omg I can't believe I found you I came into subway a few weeks ago to offer you a job an the manager said you quit but wouldn't tell me where you went". She happened to stop by for warehouse cleaning supplies. She gives me her card and I kind of blow it off. A week later she comes back in an says. " Hey look I really like how you treated customers at subway and always seemed to work hard seriously come in for a interview you have the job and I promise it pays more then big lots".
So I go in for the interview find out how much she's going to pay me and immediately give big lots a 2 week notice an tell them I'll have to finish out on night shifts and started my new job the next day. I've been with the company for 15 years. Grown with the company. And unless something drastic changes will probably retire with the company. And have built a good enough resume I could go to other company's in the same field making about the same if needed.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

matticito said:


> I'm 38 and manage a fast food place and sometimes thing of going to a trade school albeit, really late. They need workers and I'm tired of people feeling more entitled to everything and throwing fits over slushy at McDonalds. Customers are jerks.





Saugeyefisher said:


> Do it man! Only takes two years! See if the place you work now offers reimbursement?
> I got lucky with the job I got. But do believe hard work put me in the position to luck into this job.
> Out of highschool I worked at a subway. Then asked my uncle if he would teach me the trade of flooring. Did that for a year before I realized that wasn't for me. Plus working for family sucked. His son also worked with us an often got paid way more for doing the exact same thing. At the same pace and quality. So I got a warehouse job stuffing envelopes. Yeah that SUCKED! like really bad. So BORING! So I went back to subway. But by that time got used to making better money laying floor. So off to big lots for 2 dollars an hour more. And hoping for a manager position eventually. One day why working the register a lady comes in. Recognized me from subway an said,"omg I can't believe I found you I came into subway a few weeks ago to offer you a job an the manager said you quit but wouldn't tell me where you went". She happened to stop by for warehouse cleaning supplies. She gives me her card and I kind of blow it off. A week later she comes back in an says. " Hey look I really like how you treated customers at subway and always seemed to work hard seriously come in for a interview you have the job and I promise it pays more then big lots".
> So I go in for the interview find out how much she's going to pay me and immediately give big lots a 2 week notice an tell them I'll have to finish out on night shifts and started my new job the next day. I've been with the company for 15 years. Grown with the company. And unless something drastic changes will probably retire with the company. And have built a good enough resume I could go to other company's in the same field making about the same if needed.


🇺🇸 God Bless America 🇺🇸


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

matticito said:


> I'm 38 and manage a fast food place and sometimes thing of going to a trade school albeit, really late. They need workers and I'm tired of people feeling more entitled to everything and throwing fits over slushy at McDonalds. Customers are jerks.


If you don’t mind me asking how long have you been a manager where you’re at?


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

The problem isn't so much the kids don't want to work..there was people that didn't want to work when I was younger so nothing's changed...the problem is . Most don't want to work for 10.00, 12.00 bucks an hour. And I can't blame them. Hell I was making 10.00 bucks an hour back in 1980..and gas was .55 cents a gallon and a pack of cigarettes was 50 cents.
Plus most companies have stopped their apprenticeship programs altogether so the opportunities are not there for this generation.
I used to run our apprenticeship program for our company and did alot of traveling for work over the last 25 years..there just wasn't the opportunities for them like there was for my generation


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

TRIPLE-J said:


> The problem isn't so much the kids don't want to work..there was people that didn't want to work when I was younger so nothing's changed...the problem is . Most don't want to work for 10.00, 12.00 bucks an hour. And I can't blame them. Hell I was making 10.00 bucks an hour back in 1980..and gas was .55 cents a gallon and a pack of cigarettes was 50 cents.
> Plus most companies have stopped their apprenticeship programs altogether so the opportunities are not there for this generation.
> I used to run our apprenticeship program for our company and did alot of traveling for work over the last 25 years..there just wasn't the opportunities for them like there was for my generation


I disagree, there are plenty of opportunities out there that pay well. Especially in the environment we’re in now. Right now there are so many people who are opting for the “free” money it’s opening a door for the rest of us that do work to have control over what we want from the next employer. Right now The “free” unemployment has opened the door for the people who want to work to be able to get that better job they want and get paid more. I think most of the people I’m talking about just need help getting connections and their resumes out there.


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

TRIPLE-J said:


> The problem isn't so much the kids don't want to work..there was people that didn't want to work when I was younger so nothing's changed...the problem is . Most don't want to work for 10.00, 12.00 bucks an hour. And I can't blame them. Hell I was making 10.00 bucks an hour back in 1980..and gas was .55 cents a gallon and a pack of cigarettes was 50 cents.
> Plus most companies have stopped their apprenticeship programs altogether so the opportunities are not there for this generation.
> I used to run our apprenticeship program for our company and did alot of traveling for work over the last 25 years..there just wasn't the opportunities for them like there was for my generation


Little to do with the workers, while they are not great workers. The customers have gotten terrible the past 2 years. If you dont even offer something g at the location they expect you to whip it up... like that's a product at a whole different restaurant. Bye👋 but they'll throw a fit. I cant produce it out of thin air. People going bonkers over a slushie at McDonalds in ravenna. It's nuts. Guess what, the companies and everyone else owe you nothing. Especially if you didnt pay for it.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Right now if you’re 21 years of age, single and the military isn’t a option for you. You need to seriously consider getting your cdl bc the pay right now (especially for tankers) is pretty dang good with the right company.


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

Smitty82 said:


> I disagree, there are plenty of opportunities out there that pay well. Especially in the environment we’re in now. Right now there are so many people who are opting for the “free” money it’s opening a door for the rest of us that do work to have control over what we want from the next employer. Right now The “free” unemployment has opened the door for the people who want to work to be able to get that better job they want and get paid more. I think most of the people I’m talking about just need help getting connections and their resumes out there.


No sorry you are wrong ...you find me a company offering apprenticeships right now..there may be a few but they are very far and few between..
I ran our apprenticeship program for 20 years I know what I'm talking about..is there opportunities to work out there ...yes there are...all over the place...hell we've had job openings for as long as I can remember...
My post wasn't about entry level jobs...I was talking about apprenticeships into the trades...there are very few now...and it has nothing to do with kids/people not wanting to work...this is something that's been going on now for 15-20 years


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

I


TRIPLE-J said:


> No sorry you are wrong ...you find me a company offering apprenticeships right now..there may be a few but they are very far and few between..
> I ran our apprenticeship program for 20 years I know what I'm talking about..is there opportunities to work out there ...yes there are...all over the place...hell we've had job openings for as long as I can remember...
> My post wasn't about entry level jobs...I was talking about apprenticeships into the trades...there are very few now...and it has nothing to do with kids/people not wanting to work...this is something that's been going on now for 15-20 years


i understand what you’re saying about apprenticeships. The only ones that I know of anymore are from the unions. But honestly if you get into an electricians apprenticeship after two years you’re making solid money. I know for a fact some union guys making prevailing wage at wright patt at $32-35 an hr, and that’s a crap ton more than I make as a contractor on base.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

And that’s with zero college.


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

Smitty82 said:


> I
> 
> i understand what you’re saying about apprenticeships. The only ones that I know of anymore are from the unions. But honestly if you get into an electricians apprenticeship after two years you’re making solid money. I know for a fact some union guys making prevailing wage at wright patt at $32-35 an hr, and that’s a crap ton more than I make as a contractor on base.


no an actual apprenticeship is a 4 year deal and has to be logged in with the state, all hours have to be recorded and the apprentice is assigned to a journeyman for a set period of time...they are not 2 year deals...well maybe now some businesses call their 2 year """training courses""" as an apprenticeship, but they are not actual apprenticeships...and not state approved...
and the union guys you are refering too have probably already done their apprenticeship, and are not actual apprentices making that money....altho i have heard because of the lack of trained journeymen some companies are bringing in people off the street and using them with journeymen as general laborers and paying them top scale wages cause they cant find any actual journeymen to do the work....ive been in the trades a long time and this country is in for some real problems when my generation retires, cause there are no apprentices in the wings waiting to move up...we used to have 2 electrician apprentices and 2 die repair apprentices going at all times ... and when they got into their third year we brought 2 more into each field....not anymore ....i havent seen an apprentice in over 15 years now...thats a real problem and it has nothing to do with kids/people not wanting to work...it has to do with employers doing away with their programs...


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

TRIPLE-J said:


> no an actual apprenticeship is a 4 year deal and has to be logged in with the state, all hours have to be recorded and the apprentice is assigned to a journeyman for a set period of time...they are not 2 year deals...well maybe now some businesses call their 2 year """training courses""" as an apprenticeship, but they are not actual apprenticeships...and not state approved...
> and the union guys you are refering too have probably already done their apprenticeship, and are not actual apprentices making that money....altho i have heard because of the lack of trained journeymen some companies are bringing in people off the street and using them with journeymen as general laborers and paying them top scale wages cause they cant find any actual journeymen to do the work....ive been in the trades a long time and this country is in for some real problems when my generation retires, cause there are no apprentices in the wings waiting to move up...we used to have 2 electrician apprentices and 2 die repair apprentices going at all times ... and when they got into their third year we brought 2 more into each field....not anymore ....i havent seen an apprentice in over 15 years now...thats a real problem and it has nothing to do with kids/people not wanting to work...it has to do with employers doing away with their programs...


Yea I don’t know about any apprenticeship programs other than what the unions offer. But besides the apprenticeships they’re a ton of opportunities out there to make good money. Companies are looking for the right people. Like I said it’s getting the connection and getting your resume out there. Most companies don’t care if you even have any skills in what their looking for (minus the skilled trades) they just want someone reliable and quick to learn. They’ll train you for their needs.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

BFG said:


> At some point, the ants out-number and over-power the grasshoppers.


That is certainly coming about here and throughout the world ... have a couple who are good friends that are completely politically opposite ... their opinion is "gimmee, gimmee.gimmie", they're only going to tax the rich, blah blah ... a funny thing is, they believe they're ants ... they own their house mortgage free on 3+ acres in a little quasi rural upscale burb, 3 running vehicles, several "toys" in various stages of repair, a boat, quad, UTV, $8K riding lawn tractor and a plethora of other non-essential to life toys ... they make OK $$ but have always spent everything they make on said toys and champagne lifestyle on a beer income ... as far as physical assets they're in the 70-75th percentile but act like they're living in a mud hut and eating road kill ... they honestly think they're among the disadvantaged and they'll never be coming for them or make them pay more taxes  and they just keep guzzling the kool aid




Smitty82 said:


> I feel like the biggest issue we have in this country are the amount of people with heart problems, and the only real cure for the heart is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Before covid the national church attendance was on a declining slope, and covid made it worse. the national average for church attendance i think is below 47%. In order to fix the issues we have in this world people need to have a personal relationship with Christ.


I'm a Christian my whole life, went to parochial schools in an era where morals and values were aspired to, not laughed at like today ... lol girls skirts had to touch the floor when they knelt down, no cleavage showing, no jeans or T's allowed ... the church has turned a blind eye to too many things, they're very hypocritical in so many ways and basically a business, in one case the largest in the world ... they're main focus has changed from Christian values to whatever it takes to get $$$ in the plate because all their "business" produces is good will and they can't market that effectively any more ... and discipline can't be corporal or punitive in any way, don't you know it hurts their psyche to be singled out and punished for doing something wrong 😓 have a BIL who would never consider a swat on the A$$, just "redirects" them 🥴 they don't want to make them feel bad 🙄 2 years of public service, whether military or otherwise, would be a good thing ...


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Yes there are some churches out there who aren’t teaching the values they should and are in it for the money. This is nothing new, these types of churches have been around since the New Testament. But I’d say it’s the exception. The majority of Bible Based Churches are doing their best to teach and shepherd. And it’s been in my experience that most of these Churches like the one I attend are transparent about their finances and provide a run down of where the money is going.

At the risk of sounding crazy I’d say the Spiritual warfare that’s happening in the world is only getting worse. It is directly effecting the values and morals of our country. Those who are looking and seeing certain worldly events that have been taken place are seeing Biblical prophecies in motion.


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