# trespass or not question



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

If a private body of water is connected to public water thru a channel and you float in is that still trespassing. I know of some gravel pits that when the water is up there is access by floating into the pit. I was figuring it is still tresspassing but was wondering if anyone knew


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I suppose one could make the arguments it&#8217;s legal, but I think most everyone would agree that it&#8217;s not the right thing to do. It&#8217;s just a loop hole that the law doesn&#8217;t/can&#8217;t cover.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

thats what I figured and its not worth the time in fighting a ticket if I got one.


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## armour1265 (Sep 29, 2009)

Yes, it would be trespassing. Only public waters and navigable waterways are open to public use. A private quarry would be neither. Accessing the quarry from public water would not alter it's status as private property. Creative thought, nonetheless.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Tricky question. Once it becomes _navigable_ I don't think you're trespassing.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

You are an out of the box thinker like me fallen. The problem is I dont know if the popo would agree. I wonder who I could contact to figure it out. I am sure its probably illegal but I would like to know


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## BassAddict83 (Sep 21, 2010)

M.Magis said:


> I think most everyone would agree that its not the right thing to do.


I agree 110%. There are a lot of private owners who put a lot of hard work into maintaining their lake/pond to make sure the fish are nice and fat and healthy for their own fishing pleasures. It would be highly disrespectful to fish there without the owners permission regardless of how you got in there. 

If it's a really nice place you really wanna fish just ask the owner. A lot of times they're really cool about it ESPECIALLY if you bring a kid with you. That's my secret.


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## armour1265 (Sep 29, 2009)

The US Supreme Court addressed an issue similar to yours when a private land owner in Louisiana constructed a canal that connected with federal navigable waterways. The following was the courts decision:

"Where canals were built on private property with private funds in such a manner that they ultimately joined with other navigable waterways, no general right of use of the public arose by reason of the authority over navigation conferred on Congress by the commerce clause of the United States Constitution". Vaughn v. Vermilion Corp., 444 U.S. 206, 100 S. Ct. 399, 62 L. Ed. 2d 365 (1979)

Like the previous poster stated, never hurts to ask for permission, especially if you can float in.

Hope that helps.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

I was basically referring to gravel pits not an individuals private lake or pond


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Rule of thumb; if it seems too good to be true, it PROBABILY is...


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

imalt said:


> You are an out of the box thinker like me fallen. The problem is I dont know if the popo would agree. I wonder who I could contact to figure it out. I am sure its probably illegal but I would like to know




It's a technicality. If you can float in on navigable waters, it's technically legal. Everything below has already been said but it's still good reference material. 



> Definition of Navigable Waters: Ohio law treats rivers and Lake Erie differently.
> Early Ohio cases construed the England-derived common law strictly, as to give the state title only to tidal
> waters  those influenced by the ebb and flow of the tide. Gavits Admrs v. Chambers, 3 Ohio 495, 496-97 (Ohio
> 1828); Blanchards Lessee v. Porter, 11 Ohio 138, 142-43 (Ohio 1841). Nevertheless, for purposes of the public
> ...





In Ohio, a "surface water of the state" (not an intermittent stream) which can be traversed by a canoe is considered navigable.





> (1) Waters are navigable in law (and hence subject to the use of the
> general public) when they are used or could be used in their
> ordinary condition as highways for commerce (pecuniary profit).
> East Bay Sporting Club v. Miller, 161 N.E. 12 (1928).
> ...





Most of that stuff is old and a lot has been trumped by more recent cases. 

The question is...does the private property surface water become public when it connects with the navigable river? 

The answer is... "I don't know or care, here's your ticket. Tell it to the judge."



That's what's going to happen. Until a court rules on the individual case it's speculation...I don't see it clearly defined. Considering there is already a precedent in supreme court for similar circumstances, you can probably go ahead & figure it's officially illegal, or would be made illegal shortly after you do it.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

I do know that on Federal navigable waterways ( IE te Ohio River and Lake Erie) that if somone dredges out a cove for a marina, that it technically is private water within the boundrys of the property, I know as we get kicked out of private marinas all the time looking for bait on the Ohio river. I have heard of some tickets being issued along the Ky side at a few of the marinas so its for real. Have had sherriff tell us to leave a few times, when we question it, we get told, you need to leave or Ill cite you, we typically leave as its just not worth it. Just remember, law enforcement will always side with a land owner.

Salmonid


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## BassAddict83 (Sep 21, 2010)

imalt said:


> I was basically referring to gravel pits not an individuals private lake or pond


Yeah with gravel pits you're best bet is to probably stay out. I don't know what it is with the gravel pit owners but it seems that if you don't personally know them you're not getting in without dealing with the law. I've been denied every single gravel pit I've asked permission to fish. And it was made very clear that the no trespassing rule was being strictly enforced. Maybe the surface of the water technically is legal but as fallen said you'll probably end up on court either way.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

you guys are right it was just a thought. Damn those gravel pits look good though but its not worth getting arrested


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Ohio Law is very clear that any waterway/stream/spring that starts on your property in NOT navagable ( under any circumstance) until is traverses off your property. ( Navigable streams must go from public access down to another public access ( road to road) as this is all tied into beingy able to use a stream as an "Highway by Law" .

Most states also make this distinction, even the ones that have open stream bottoms. Wisconson for example, where public has a right of way to the high water mark, has many private trout clubs, the key is that the streams start on the same property from large springs. I am sure a gravel pit which is solely contained on one property ( most of the time) could be considered as a waterway starting on that property like a large ( very large) spring, Just adding some food for thought here. 

Salmonid


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

imalt said:


> you guys are right it was just a thought. Damn those gravel pits look good though but its not worth getting arrested


You best bet legally is to invest in a hot air balloon or a helicopter. For the most part airspace is public domain. There are some areas where airspace is restriced by the govt. not private citizens.


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## BassAddict83 (Sep 21, 2010)

Snakecharmer said:


> You best bet legally is to invest in a hot air balloon or a helicopter. For the most part airspace is public domain. There are some areas where airspace is restriced by the govt. not private citizens.


Just be careful of how high you're holding your rod tip if you're going to fish from a helicopter


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

BassAddict83 said:


> Just be careful of how high you're holding your rod tip if you're going to fish from a helicopter


Sounds like a Bill Dance blooper.....


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## BMayhall (Jun 9, 2011)

imalt said:


> If a private body of water is connected to public water thru a channel and you float in is that still trespassing. I know of some gravel pits that when the water is up there is access by floating into the pit. I was figuring it is still tresspassing but was wondering if anyone knew


It is legal to be in the pit if you at floating in the pit on a boat or a canoe once you touch bottom or shore with your foot that's trespassing. If the owner says anything to you call the game warden. I know this from a game warden in pebble county when I was in the police academy. Graduated from the academy last month. Keep on floating and fishing in the gravel pits.


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## bass (Apr 14, 2004)

You guys crack me up just use commonsense . if you have to think about it dont do it. If it was your property you all would be the biggest crybabies when someone trespasses


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## BMayhall (Jun 9, 2011)

Haha the answer is yes only if your floating


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

bass said:


> if you have to think about it dont do it.


That's the best piece of advice there is.


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