# Restocking established pond with no fish.



## celtic11 (Jun 30, 2011)

Im looking to restock my grandmas .25 acre pond. It used to have fish in it but a couple bad years of no one paying attention to it caused all the fish to die. Grandpa doesn't want Bluegill so I was hoping to do LM Bass, redear sunfish, and channel catfish. Right now the pond is crawling with bullfrogs/tadpoles. Here are some questions I have:

How many of each species would be acceptable?
Should I get the water tested before?
Can I stock in stages as in.. this month do minnows, redears in july, and bass in august?
Assuming I stocked the correct amount of fingerings for each species, approximately how long until they are a fishable size?

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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm not much help, but whatever caused those fish to die could very well cause any more fish to die. Neglect doesn't kill fish. Sounds like something needs addressed. Is it too shallow?


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## celtic11 (Jun 30, 2011)

Well I don't really know but I am mostly in agreement with you. That's why I am unsure if I should get it tested first to see if there is a problem with the water.. the pond is sorta shaped like a peanut with one rounded area going from a beach thing to maybe 4' deep and the other section more going from about 4' to a deepest point of about 8'.

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## die4irish (Jun 8, 2004)

I would get the water tested to be sure. If I had to do it over again I would have put in just minnows for the first yr to let them populate then add fish the next yr


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Im guessing the pond still has some fish in it as even a harsh winter kill will not get them all. Is it possible locals are wiping out the population> a neighbor of my friend had a small pond that was really loaded with nice fish and when they foreclosed on the house over the next year with noone there, he saw people over there constantly fishing it and when the new owners got in there my buddy was telling them how great the fishing was but by then, it was absolutely all you could do to catch a bluegill. 

Another thought is that while your Gma doesnt want bluegills they are a important part of the food chain and a MUST for you to support Bass and catfish. RedEars are not prolific breeders so youu can add them but they will not support the fish eating the, yes, Id stock fathead minnows and some golden shiners RIGHT NOW! then late in the fall or better yet next spring, stock your 4-6" bass and cats, a fishable population will take between 2-3 years if you go that route.

Salmonid


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## celtic11 (Jun 30, 2011)

Salmonid said:


> Im guessing the pond still has some fish in it as even a harsh winter kill will not get them all. Is it possible locals are wiping out the population> a neighbor of my friend had a small pond that was really loaded with nice fish and when they foreclosed on the house over the next year with noone there, he saw people over there constantly fishing it and when the new owners got in there my buddy was telling them how great the fishing was but by then, it was absolutely all you could do to catch a bluegill.
> 
> Another thought is that while your Gma doesnt want bluegills they are a important part of the food chain and a MUST for you to support Bass and catfish. RedEars are not prolific breeders so youu can add them but they will not support the fish eating the, yes, Id stock fathead minnows and some golden shiners RIGHT NOW! then late in the fall or better yet next spring, stock your 4-6" bass and cats, a fishable population will take between 2-3 years if you go that route.
> 
> Salmonid


Thanks for the tips. I have seen no signs of fish living in that pond at all over the last 10 years or so, but I considered going out there and getting several lines in the water with some different baits and see if anything is still there.

I will talk to grandpa about the bluegill again and see what he says... they had bluegill in there before and didn't like how they would "nibble" on the swimmers, but the pond rarely gets swam in these days so maybe I can change his mind.

What do you think is a good amount of minnows for a pond this size? One local fishery I found sells them by the pound at $6.50/lb. Also, I know stocking from other waters isn't recommended but they have a creek that is the property line between their house and the next and I could load up that pond with minnows over the course of a week just catching them in the creek and transferring to the pond. Should I stay clear of that idea?

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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

1/4 acre is too small for bass IMO. Grandpa doesn't want bluegill so my guess is he feels the same about redears. My recommendation is minnows and maybe shiners now, then next spring 25 hybrid striped bass and a few channels if desired. It will be much easier to manage and I think you and your grandparents will be much happier with the results.


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## celtic11 (Jun 30, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> 1/4 acre is too small for bass IMO. Grandpa doesn't want bluegill so my guess is he feels the same about redears. My recommendation is minnows and maybe shiners now, then next spring 25 hybrid striped bass and a few channels if desired. It will be much easier to manage and I think you and your grandparents will be much happier with the results.


That sounds reasonable. Will the minnows sustain enough to keep food for the bass or will I have to add minnows every year?  Also, what would be a good amount of minnows to add do you think? Lastly, is the anything else I could add, like yellow perch or something, just to kinda throw in some variety?

One more question (kinda 2 in 1).. how many channels would you recommend and what do you think about a couple grass carp.

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## die4irish (Jun 8, 2004)

stay away from using creek fish. you don't know what your getting. If you believe the pond has no fish I would throw in a bag of copper sulfate in and that will clear the water up and kill any unwanted organisms.then early fall add fatheads or golden shinners to start the forage base. they will need something to breed on like pallets or christmas tree.


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## selfproclaim (May 19, 2011)

How is that too small for bass? That statement is crazy IMO.


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## celtic11 (Jun 30, 2011)

die4irish said:


> stay away from using creek fish. you don't know what your getting. If you believe the pond has no fish I would throw in a bag of copper sulfate in and that will clear the water up and kill any unwanted organisms.then early fall add fatheads or golden shinners to start the forage base. they will need something to breed on like pallets or christmas tree.


There are at least a couple christmas trees in there already. 

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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

selfproclaim said:


> How is that too small for bass? That statement is crazy IMO.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Rule of thumb is a typical bass/bluegill farm pond will support 100lbs. of bass per acre so 1/4 acre should support 25 lbs of bass but when you get below 1/2 acre, they usually carry a little less than the rule. So we're talking about five, 5lb. or ten 2.5lb Bass for example. Ten bass get wise quick and get tougher to catch. They will live but not flourish and you can easily end up with 20 or 30 very skinny bass. I'm not saying it can't be done but as a general rule, 1/4 acre is too small for largemouth IMO.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

If there truly are no other fish present, 5 lbs of fatheads stocked now could spawn quite a few times between now and next spring. Cedar shakes stapled to floating ropes would make good spawning substrate thats easy to check. Fathead will lay jellylike starshaped clusters on the underside of them. You wouldn't have to restock them they could self sustain but you may have to restock more or reduce the predators once growth decreases. You could do perch, reducing other fish proportionally.

Pellet feeding could make perch a possibility as feed trained are readily available. Hybrid stripers and channels also grow very well and readily take them. 

I wouldn't stock more channels than will be eaten in a year or two. They can be restocked and are cheap.

Grass carp are fine, 1 now, 1 more in a few years if needed. If the pond has bombarded with copper sulfate for years, they may not live. They'd rather not eat filamentous algae, so if that's the weed you're having trouble with you may want to look toward other elimination methods. The grass carp are good prevention for other higher weeds though.

If you're not considering supplemental feeding, use the 25lbs of predator figure and figure out what size of each species best suites you and your grandparents then do math..

Bait and place a minnow trap near shallow structure, I'd be surprised if you don't catch something. Right now, the fry that hatched this year are too small to be caught but those produced last year are probably at least a couple of inches...if there are any. Look at the pond on a calm evening, you may see fry patrolling the surface in schools right now too. As others have said, don't get carried away on adding fish until you have a handle on what's going on. See what kind of yearly budget you've got to work with and let us know.


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## celtic11 (Jun 30, 2011)

I am bumping this thread because I never got around to getting this pond going and am hoping to do that this year. My plan for now is to stock 5 lbs of fathead minnows in the fall and let them get a good forage base over the course of a year and then the following fall stock maybe 15 HSB and 10 Yellow Perch. I have also heard that small mouth bass do fairly well in ponds when they don't have to compete with LM bass but will the hybrids be too much competition as well. I don't plan on the smallies reproducing or anything but if I could have 4 or 5 in there to kind of provide a novelty catch it would be awesome. 

Thought about adding some red ears for the whole panfish exeperience but will they nibble like bluegill?

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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

celtic11....... I might have missed the info but how deep is the pond? And 5lbs+ of fatheads will last about a week (maybe two) with the predators your putting in.

You're going to need more forage fish...Red ears are good for keeping snails in check. They're hard to catch sometimes. Gills are some of the sweetest pan fish you'll ever eat...but the gills also put out a lot babies for your predators.

Just remember that you have to have enough food (small fish or pellets) for your predators to live on.


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## celtic11 (Jun 30, 2011)

Hang_loose, are you saying that even with the fatheads being in the pond with no predators for a year, the result will still be a week/two weeks worth of food? 

Also, not sure how much you read of the previous posts, but my grandma and grandpa had bluegill in this pond several years ago and didn't like how they nibbled at swimmers, which is why I am looking into other forage base options. I was thinking of adding the redears just for some variety and mainly something smallish for the kids to hook. This particular pond doesn't seem to have any issues with snails.

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