# PFD, id like some honest answers please.



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

my question is, do you wear a PFD? why or why not? be honest please. this is my first kayak.


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## Bass Masterson (Apr 29, 2004)

I wear mine when fishing lakes with high traffic or if I fish lake Erie. Would also wear when fishing rivers. On my normal small lakes or ponds I would not...this all changes when the water temp drops though. Hypothermia would even give Michael Phelps problems staying a float.

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## sauguy (Apr 8, 2004)

Always when i canoe in a river, a lot of people underestimate the force of river current if you flip.


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

I have the exact same answer as Bass Masterson. 

Bowhunter57


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## publican57 (Jul 20, 2012)

I wear mine anytime I am on my kayak. It's not confining or uncomfortable and I was taught it is better to be safe than sorry.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

I never took hypothermia into consideration. I'm glad I started this thread


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Look at getting a "Kayak" PFD as opposed to using a regular one. They're cut different so they don't interfere with the paddling motion.


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## dmills4124 (Apr 9, 2008)

We have a couple of styles we wear depending on the weather. On our bassboat in the summer we wear the fanniepack manual inflation style. Its cool and out of the way without the chafing around your neck. When the water is cold enough for hypothermia we wear the SOSPender auto inflation style. I scuba dive mostly on the westcoast. The water temp ranges between 47 and 52-55 degrees F. I wear 1/4in farmerjohn wet suit. That puts 1/2in of neoprene between me and the ocean over my core. When I hit the water the first time with the suit still dry it stops your breathing like Andre The Giant squeezing you around the chest. The shock of hitting cool watercan kill you wether the air is in the 90's and the water is high 70's to low 80's justs the same as 45 degree air and 50 degree water with you in thermals. 
The answer to your question is yes we wear our pfd's. I know I spent a lot of words to just say that, But I'm tired of reading all the obits around here this summer. I'm sure you can find a PFD that is comfordable and will not confine your movements so you can enjoy yaking.
JMTCW
donm


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## KeithOH (Mar 26, 2010)

I wear mine 100% of the time. Not that I feel I need it but because it holds all stuff I need. Pliers, knife,emergency whistle, snacks, cell phone, car keys.


http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2150&pdeptid=2059


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## leftfordead88 (Oct 22, 2007)

I've never worn mine. Just being honest. I imagine I would wear if I were on Erie or really bad weather. 


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## RustyGoat (May 17, 2011)

I almost always have mine on. Last time out though the extreme heat and the fact that I was fishing shallow water I left it lay in the kayak. Easy reach if I needed it. 

I agree with the people above who said to get a kayak specific PFD. I started out with a cheap Bass Pro PFD and the rear padding made it very uncomfortable in the seat. Ordered a NRS Chinook which has a high back and have no complaints on it. Its bright orange so it makes me a little more visible too.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

KeithOH said:


> I wear mine 100% of the time. Not that I feel I need it but because it holds all stuff I need. Pliers, knife,emergency whistle, snacks, cell phone, car keys.


this is the kind im going to look for. any suggestion on one?

ive been in a canoe since jr high and ive never really wore one. but im gettng a little older and realize im not bulletproof.


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## Riverjam (May 30, 2012)

ezbite said:


> this is the kind im going to look for. any suggestion on one?
> 
> ive been in a canoe since jr high and ive never really wore one. but im gettng a little older and realize im not bulletproof.


For what kayak? If you have a fairly normal kayak seat that's not too high, I'd definitely look for one with a high back. I have the NRS chinook, which is the same one that someone already have you a link to here. When i sit in my kayak the back padding doesn't even come in contact with my seat, so its very comfortable. I think it's a pretty good pfd. It's got plenty of pockets and even a rod holder that comes in handy of you're wading. If you have a yak seat that's really tall though, it may be better to have a pfd with a full back. 




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## USMC_Galloway (May 13, 2011)

I do not wear mine in the summer. I know I should, but meh, its hot, and that water temp is around 70 + deg. I am just not worried about getting in trouble. 

In the Spring though when the water is still cold, I do wear it with my waders, mostly to keep my outfit water tight was can be. 

I did break down and get a nice PDF while down in NC to paddle on the ocean. It has a very high back and is made to be used in a kayak, so you dont even notice it while its on. I would also use one if I was out on Erie, or on Alum on a weekend with a weekend crowd.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

I don't, well I only have once. It was my first time on the scioto river, middle of the night, and I was alone so that was the only smart thing I was doing. 

I will put it on if I feel the need but I tend to not feel the need. And if I had a low cut jacket with thin straps I may wear it more often. The only thing I worried about is a tree or limb falling on my head. I cant swim if im out, but the odds of that are small and could even happen standing on the river bank.


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## MDJ (Jan 27, 2011)

I don't care if the water is only a foot deep and its 100 degrees out, mine is on all the time. I can honestly say from the first time I set foot in my kayak til this day I have never thought twice about wearing it. I have three kids and a wife who loves to see me when I come home. I'm gonna try to keep it that way. Just wear it, it is not that big of a deal to just put it on.


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## KeithOH (Mar 26, 2010)

ezbite- The link is at the end of my last post for a good PFD. Me and Riverjam both use this vest.


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## KWaller (Oct 3, 2010)

To be honest, I got my kayak on Christmas and have been out on it around 75 times in buckeye lake, licking river, and a pond. I wore my life jacket one time for about 10 minutes on buckeye due to cold temps and big waves. I don't wear it because everywhere on the lake and ponds, just stand up if u fall. The river was slow moving and low. I know mother nature is the most dominant animal out there but being 6'2" 230 and in some of the best shape I'll ever be in, I'm not too worried on my capabilities. I'm 15 though, I'll learn sooner or later  


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## moosejohn (Feb 25, 2010)

hey ez i only wear mine if i feel the situation demands it but i always have it on my knees at easy reach i do wear it in the bass boat when running the outboard. i just dont feel comfortable in the yak fishin with one i was told a inflatable does not qualify in a yak or canoe by a ranger !


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Thanks for all the honest answers and not bashing anyone for their choice to wear or not to wear PFD. (I've only seen bashing once in this forum, but lots on Ogf ) I've been on the water all my life and honestly maybe wore it 2% of the time. But like I said I'm getting older and wiser  i will start out wearing one and will for sure if out on the lake. Thanks again for the replys and please keep em coming.

BTW, the delivery truck will be at the house between 10-6 tomorrow with the commander. I feel like a kid the day before Christmas


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

The right answer is wear it all the time, but I don't on the rivers and creeks this time of year. It doesn't make sense because in a way they are even more dangerous when they are low because you are always forced to sneak through places with strainers where the current is still pretty strong. I'm less afraid when I'm on a creek with a partner. I'm more inclined to wear it when I am solo.

I don't do lakes much, but they scare me more because you can get pretty far from shore. Even if you are not far from shore, you have to consider if you can get up a bank. I remember one time I was fishing this little impoundment. I looked around and realized that there was a thick weed mat that pretty much ran all around until it got to deeper water. I realized that it was pretty much a death trap and put the PFD on.


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## fishing pole (May 2, 2004)

Always wear mine. I had a friend who fell out of a boat as he lost his balance a few years ago and hit his head on the side. He was knocked out and if it wasnt for me and a PFD he would of not made it. Also want to make sure my son wears it. Kids do as adults do! Another plus is it gives some extra padding on the back for the kayak seat.


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## RebelWithACause122 (Mar 29, 2011)

I know that this can be a touchy subject, and in reality, everyone needs to make their own decisions. I make my own decisions based on what I feel the FACTORED risk is. Factored risk takes into account both the probablility of an undesireable event, as well as the severity of the results. Many people here have mentioned similar rationale... either they determine that the probability of capsizing is very small, OR that the results won't be so bad (such as shallow water where they can touch).

That being said, I have put over 200 miles on my kayak so far this year, and only about 10 miles have been while wearing a PFD. Conversely, I've put thousands of miles on my motorcycle, and not a single one has been without a helmet. When I get on my motorcycle and ride on public roads, I know I'm taking a risk. No matter how confident I am in my own abilities, I know there are a lot of idiots on the roads, and a lot more people who are just plain distracted... not to mention the possibily of deer running out in the road in front of me and other happenings that are beyond my control. All of these possibilities (and the understanding that my skills are not infallible) combined with the potential (or even likely) severity of the outcomes, cause me to ALWAYS ride with a helmet. After riding motorcycles for 10 years without ever so much as dropping any of my bikes in the driveway, I still wouldn't relent my helmet policy, and when I had my accident, I was very glad of that... I walked away uninjured. When it comes to kayaking, I feel that the likelyhood of an accident is far less... I kayak in lakes, with no current to deal with... when I'm not in an "electric only" or "no wake" lake, I avoid speed zones and weekends/holidays... and I've never tipped my kayak over on accident. I also feel that the severity of an accident in the kayak would tend to be minimal... by avoiding where power boaters and jet-skiers play, I don't feel I'm likely to encounter anything beyond an accidental tipover.

Still, I have practiced my deepwater re-entry as I think every kayaker should. I've tipped the kayak intentionally in deep water to make sure I could 1.) flip the yak upright while treading water 2.) crawl back up onto the kayak 3.) access and put on the PFD from the water 4.) crawl back up onto the kayak while wearing the PFD 5.) swim to shore without leaving the kayak 6.) and crawl back up into the kayak while fatigued.

I won't urge people to wear a PFD, when I myslef do not... I won't tell anyone that there is no need to wear a PFD and they should just leave it off... I WILL urge all kayakers to practice deepwater re-entry, and to evaluate the risks for themselves... AND to wear that PFD when conditions dictate (weather, water temp, boat traffic, whatever). We all take risks everyday of our lives. I feel safer in my kayak on a quiet lake (without wearing my PFD) than I do commuting to work along I-76 in my truck.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm definitely in the Rebel camp on this one.
I rarely wear mine.

I know that's not the right answer, but it's honest.

I was on the Scioto all day yesterday. It's a couple hundred feet wide in most places, and the flow was 100 cfs. In my opinion, I have a greater chance of falling and drowning in my bathtub than I do on the Scioto right now. Seriously.

BTW, I can't even begin to explain what was going on the Scioto yesterday afternoon/evening. I took zero pictures to support a completely insane outing.
It may very well have been my best day on a river...ever.


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## FishermanMurph (Jan 29, 2012)

I have mine on 98% of the time, especially when by myself. Only times I've not had it on is floating a shallow river where I'm doing a mix of floating and walking and when I'm fishing with someone on a very small lake.


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## mtstringer (Jan 7, 2005)

When I was young I bought a coleman canoe. The guy who sold it to me said he thought it was too tippy. I used it for many years and never dumped it. I thought the guy had misrepresented the tippy-ness of the canoe. In 2009 I was fishing in about 8 ft. of water just east of the Pymatuning Ohio state campground. I had on my pfd. It was a little warm, 75 degrees or so. I had always promised my wife that I would wear it. After fishing for a few hours, and having moderate success, I caught a small perch. The fish wiggled off the hook to the floor of the canoe. I went to pick it up and the next thing I knew I was in the water. Some of my stuff floated, and some didnt. The small anchor I had in the boat went over and the line wrapped around my leg. Good thing it was a small anchor, because it wasnt enough weight to pull me and my pfd under. After finally untangling, I put as much stuff in the canoe, now full of water, as I could recover. I spent a half an hour or better propelling my canoe to shore. I could have used scuba fins. I went to the doctor shortly after, and due to arthritis of the spine, I, a once mighty athlete, now have very poor balance. The doc said the operation to correct this is very risky. He said if I could live with it, do so. I took his advice. Im living with it. The point Im trying to make is this: You never know when youre going to need the pfd. I would have never put a $100 fishing rod and several hundred dollars worth of tackle in the canoe if I thought I had a good chance of dumping it. It was an expensive lesson, but it almost cost me everything, except for that $30, uncomfortable life saver.


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

My advice is to spend a few bucks to get a comfortable pdf and then wear it all the time. Not just when the weather is bad or the water is rough.

My son & I are veteran paddlers. We had done 15 week-long Quetico & Boundary Waters trips without incident. But last year while we were paddling up the Maligne River on a beautiful sunny day; a careless moment in some heavy water and we were both in the 50 degree water with our canoe upside down and all our gear floating down the rapids with us.

Luckily we were both wearing pdf's and our gear was all in waterproof packs so we were able to grab the bags & the canoe and swim everything to the bank once clear of the current.


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## toy boater (Aug 15, 2008)

Always wear mine, mostly because I'm not very confident in my swimming abilities.


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## farleybucks (Aug 8, 2009)

Wear mine 100% of the time regardless of weather, type of water, depth, etc. 
You don't want to be a headline in the paper saying person drowned and then in the details it says not wearing a pfd that was in the kayak.
if you buy one specifically made for kayaking (like others have said) once you wear it a handful of times you don't even notice it...too busy looking for fish anyway!
also a good way to store things like keith mentions.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

I wear mine in the river, but only when I approach faster moving waters. It saved my life this year. I had a really bad flip in my kayak on the Little Miami. I was by myself and my fishing line got caught up into some trees and I was trying to get unsnagged. There was a downed tree and my kayak got caught up on it sideways and flipped immediately. It was almost dark out, probably 9:00, and I'm sure if I wasn't wearing it things would've been ugly. Lost a lot of gear that day too. Just use your best judgement.

No one ever goes out and plans on flipping their boat, but if you prepare yourself for the unexpected, then you'll save yourself the headache, and possibly your life.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

OK....either people are wary to be truthful, or there's some stone cold fibbing going on.
I'm on the water plenty. And the PFD vs. No-PFD ratio in real life is WAY below what is being represented in this thread. 

I'm glad everyone is wearing them, but I'm just saying the replies here don't seem consistent with real world wearing.


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## catchabuzz (May 26, 2009)

I wear mine every time I am out. You never know what you might hit your head on and not be able to swim or even stand up.


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## PapawSmith (Feb 13, 2007)

Bubbagon said:


> OK....either people are wary to be truthful, or there's some stone cold fibbing going on.
> I'm on the water plenty. And the PFD vs. No-PFD ratio in real life is WAY below what is being represented in this thread.


I believe that most that say they "always" wear theirs are in Yaks and I believe them, because most yakers I encounter are wearing them. I only paddle a canoe and seldom wear a PFD, but always have mine right behind my back as I don't swim. I put mine on only when encountering significant rapids or when the river I'm floating encounters/crosses a lake or dam pond that will have motor boat traffic. Nothing more fun than a ski or pontoon boat cruising within about 50' to get a better look at you and your 10 days worth of gear, with about 5" of free board, while laboring to cross a traffic filled lake against the wind. How freaking considerate, I hope I'm a worthwhile novelty. I always put mine on when I see those purebreds coming my way. I have been swamped by both inconsiderate motor boaters and 'misjudged by me' rapids and was wearing a PFD on each occasion as I realized I was approaching potential situations. Otherwise they are off because when I'm floating I'm on vacation from all things restrictive, even PFD's.


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## RebelWithACause122 (Mar 29, 2011)

I agree with Bubbagon. In the places where I go kayaking, I'd guess that maybe 1 out of 10 people are wearing PFDs while kayaking (and far less for other types of boats). Again, I'm not going to try to DISCOURAGE anyone from wearing it... and you SHOULD wear it if conditions warrant it, especially if you're not that skilled a kayaker, or that strong of a swimmer. I don't know that there is a single answer that applies to anyone... other than use good judgment, know how to keep yourself safe, and know/practice your self-rescue techniques. I'm personally glad that the state of Ohio gives us the choice.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Here's what I know: I wear mine when I should. Deep, swift, or cold water, etc...
But when the water is 85 degrees, the air is 90, the depth is less than 2 feet, and the flow is essentially equal to a good morning piss...I guess I'll officially take my chances.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Yes, yes and hell yes. Why? Because I like life.

You can't sit back and predict what's going to happen on the water. I'd imagine that most places fished have a spiders web network of old rusted hooks and line wrapped around every snag.

But the decision is yours.


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

In the spring I took the Ohio Boating Course given by the ODNR and they told us that in 80% of boating fatalities the person was not wearing a life jacket.

That is a good enough reason for me to wear mine.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

backlashed said:


> I'd imagine that most places fished have a spiders web network of old rusted hooks and line wrapped around every snag.


Not even close. On streams I rarely see signs of people. And when I do, it's typically landowner trash, or the cat fisherman's beer and white bait container typical deal.Maybe a trot line here and there...

Probably just my side mood, but I can't quit laughing to myself over the image of some guy...flailing around in the water....being drowned by a spiders web network of rusted hooks and line without his life vest....and me yelling to him..."Stand up!!!".

I lost a good buddy that way once....

I dunno. I guess it's like bicycle helmets - Is there a time and place? Sure. Did we all wear bicycle helmets as kids....nope. Do we now anyone who died from NOT wearing a bicycle helmet? Probably not. But should they be worn in times of increased risk? Absolutely.

Am I REALLY in danger, floating in mid August, in super low summer pool when streams like the Darby are running at 27cfs and 85% of the stream is less than knee deep?
I can make a way better case that some felt soled, ankle high boots would increase your safety factor much more than the continual wearing of your life vest.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how familiar you are with the water. If I'm on water I haven't paddled before, I tend to wear it. If I then develop a level of comfort with the water, I take it off. 

One thing I have to cop to is that your mind ain't always right concerning safety when you are yak fishing. You can see a little run coming up and know that you should get ready for it and still squeeze off another cast or two. The next thing you know you've got a smallie flapping on the end of your line, you're banging rocks, and you are getting closer and closer to that sycamore bent over the water and getting spun around in an eddy pool...yeehaw


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

streamstalker said:


> One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how familiar you are with the water. If I'm on water I haven't paddled before, I tend to wear it. If I then develop a level of comfort with the water, I take it off.


Plus one on that.


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## gibson330usa (May 15, 2012)

I never wear one on the LMR as I can stand up in 95% of it with my head above water. Any deeper lakes or rivers that I'm too far from the shore to swim I would wear it.


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## Northern1 (May 9, 2012)

I always wear mine. It makes a nice back rest for me and if you get a fishing-specific one, it holds a lot of your gear you will use.


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## rizzman (Oct 25, 2007)

I bought a auto inflatable this past winter for the spring bite out on western Erie, I wore it most of the time, you forget you even have it on. When the water warms up i dont use one. I was on West Branch today by myself in my 18' Lund, trying to get it to run right for a upcoming Canada trip. It was hot but i wore it while i was running across the lake. I never make the wife wear hers....


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## Big Chief201 (Aug 13, 2010)

I have wore mine maybe a handful of times. Once night fishing, and the others were when the weather started turning rough and my tiny ship was tossed.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm a strong swimmer. Mine makes a great seat cushion on the canoe.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

If your new to kayaks... You very well should wear it... At least until you get comfortable in the yak... I wear mine now pretty much only when floating a river.. But I got the smaller one that is meant for wearing in a kayak... It's not as restrictive as a normal life vest... 
Tell ya what... Take your yak out on a lake, paddle out to water you KNOW is over your head... Put on your vest and purposely tip your kayak... Then decide if your glad ya wore it... Better yet... Tip it on a river in fast current right before a log jam... I say that because I tried it... I wear mine ... Just spend the money on the less restrictive ones... Theyre comfortable and not bulky


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## landarcjedi (Mar 20, 2011)

http://www.austinkayak.com/products/814/Stohlquist-Fisherman-High-Back-Life-Jacket-PFD.html

I used to have this one until I lost it on the freeway.

This thing was sweet! I really thought it was well designed and comfortable. I used to wear it all the time, I could stuff tons of stuff in the pockets. And really accessible too.

Now I have some blue dagger one I got for half price and I never wear it now. My old one was nice to have on since it held so much tackle.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

i,ve just never worn one except whem swimming in deep water, or if im having boat trouble. i even bought the inflateables for everybody on board. but then the kids was the only one wearing there vests.
sherman


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## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

Couldn't hurt!!! If you feel the need especially! I don't wear them always but do when swimming deep waters or if something got rough on the lake!


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Bubbagon said:


> I'm glad everyone is wearing them, but I'm just saying the replies here don't seem consistent with real world wearing.


C'mon bubba, the sample here is way to small to have a real world comparison.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Bubbagon said:


> Not even close. On streams *I rarely see* signs of people.


*Your vision is very narrow* when compared to all the water, all the circumstances and all the people that float them.

I spent 14 years doing risk management. In risk management you prepare for the unexpected. You can drown in a coffee cup of water, so a 2' wade is more than enough when the unexpected happens. That's why they are called accidents.

You'd never catch me encouraging anyone not to wear their PDF. I'm not assuming that responsibility.


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## RebelWithACause122 (Mar 29, 2011)

backlashed said:


> You'd never catch me encouraging anyone not to wear their PDF. I'm not assuming that responsibility.


Backlashed, I don't think anyone here is encouraging others not to wear. Even those of us who rarely wear PFD are (for the most part) saying use good judgement. Good judgement may have to do with the weather, the water, the boat traffic, the paddler's skill level, the paddler's physical abilities, or any number of other factors. But I haven't seen anyone on here, even those that may NEVER wear one, calling anyone esle a sissy for wearing a PFD. When I go steelhead fishing, I see many people wading 2 to 3 ft water in some strong flows when the water is 35 degrees and I don't think I've ever seen a PFD on a single one (although it's possible I missed an inflatable). They are far more likely to slip wading (and into much harsher environment) than I am likely to tip my kayak on a quiet lake. There are far more dangerous activities (like commuting to work along I-76 as I mentioned the other day) for me to worry about. Can I predict 100% all the things that COULD go wrong on the water? No. But based on my experience and my abilities (and my choices of kayking locations, conditions, and so on), I like my odds... enough so that I feel confident without my PFD on most of the time. Again, I'm giving MY RATIONALE for why I usually don't wear it. But I wouldn't DISCOURAGE someone from wearing one. I have multiple kayaks, and even when I take other people out kayaking (of various experience levels), I always say, "here's a PFD, it's required by law to have on board, and it's suggested that you wear it. I choose not to wear mine in mild conditions like this, but I have enough experience and enough confidence in my abilities to feel comfortable doing so. It's up to you if you want to wear this or not." What I feel is important to a kayaker's safety (in the "quite lake" conditions that I kayak in), is the PRACTICING of DEEPWATER RE-ENTRY. Everybody should practice tipping your kayak and getting back in. If you find re-entry to be extremely difficult, you might want to more strongly consider always wearing a PFD.

And if we pass each other on the water someday, and you're wearing a PFD while I'm not... I promise, I won't be laughing at you.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

backlashed said:


> *Your vision is very narrow* when compared to all the water, all the circumstances and all the people that float them.
> 
> I spent 14 years doing risk management. In risk management you prepare for the unexpected. You can drown in a coffee cup of water, so a 2' wade is more than enough when the unexpected happens. That's why they are called accidents.
> 
> You'd never catch me encouraging anyone not to wear their PDF. I'm not assuming that responsibility.


Yes, my vision is narrow compared to "all the water", which is exactly why I typed "On streams I rarely see signs of people". Meaning I'm NOT comparing ALL waters, just making a comment about STREAMS.

Yes, you could indeed drown in a cup of water. And your PFD would not have done you a bit of good.
I've been paddling kayaks for well over 20 years, and I have a VERY good grasp on my own risk assessment on the water.
I've seen guys die on a river. Saw the Army Corp shut a dam completely off, so the water level could be dropped to a level where the body could be retrieved out from under a keeper rock.
I've yet to know of someone who died on a 27 cfs stream from being entangled by fishing line. But you are right, it COULD happen.

Believe me, if I'm on a river that has actual current, like stronger than your kitchen faucet, I wear my PFD. If it's cold, I wear it. If the water is deep, I wear it. Etc...
But these "well you COULD" scenarios are tedious and never ending. If you want to play the risk assessment game, then there should absolutely NEVER be a time when you're on the water in your kayak without wearing a helmet. I mean, kayaks are easy to tip, and just one small bump on the head, right behind the ear....you're dead meat.

Point? I think the original dude was trying to get HONEST answers, not just politically correct answers that someone would put it print.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

I know you have been at this a loooong time, but you can't claim to the the final voice on "streams".

I bet Drew Gregory was glad to have his PDF on when that goose attacked him. Think that guy that drowned when the swan attacked him, knocking him off the kayak was thinking about a PDF when he went in?

It's a personal choice. That's what the OP is looking for. Skip it if you want to, but I like life too much and am going to stack the cards in my favor, even in water I know with friends.


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## 10fish (May 12, 2005)

I wear it whenever I'm by myself on the water, or if there is current / high water. I usually sit on it while on a group slow float "cabrewing" session. I also always wear one when wading and a wading belt to boot.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

id like to thank everyone thats responed honestly. i know doing that on the internet sometimes is a risk. 

Bubbagon and backlashed, id like to also thank you guys for your input, but please dont turn this thread into a pissing match, use your pm's please 

keep the replys coming... in going to go paint my yak dolly now and take a few photos


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

backlashed said:


> Skip it if you want to, but I like life too much and am going to stack the cards in my favor, even in water I know with friends.


Then put your money where your mouth is and begin wearing a kayaking helmet 100% of the time.
Certainly you must agree, as a risk assessment professional, and as someone who wants to stack all the cards in his favor, that wearing a kayaking helmet, while kayaking, is a great idea. Yet you don't.
I'd bet you would if you were in a whitewater kayak in class IV's, right?
It would almost seem as though you've decided that wearing a helmet ALL the time, might be a little over the top...


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

10fish said:


> I wear it whenever I'm by myself on the water, or if there is current / high water. I usually sit on it while on a group slow float "cabrewing" session. I also always wear one when wading and a wading belt to boot.


thats a good point, i used to fish the spring run in sandusky. one year right after a heavy rain the night before i got swept downstream when i waded out too far and stepped on a slippery flat rock, luckly i had a belt on and only got swept a few yards downstream until i regained my footing. after that i always wore PFD in the river but i also didnt wade out so far in the heavy current anynore either. i never wear it wading the lake, but i do still wear a belt.


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## FishingJunkie92 (Dec 31, 2010)

ezbite said:


> my question is, do you wear a PFD? why or why not? be honest please. this is my first kayak.


Most of the time no. But that's because I am an excellent swimmer. The only times I do is when I take my yak out into lake Erie or in colder fast moving waters that are more that 6 feet deep. For the most part its extra padding for a backrest. But I always have it with me.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Bubbagon said:


> Then put your money where your mouth is and begin wearing a kayaking helmet 100% of the time.
> Certainly you must agree, as a risk assessment professional, and as someone who wants to stack all the cards in his favor, that wearing a kayaking helmet, while kayaking, is a great idea. Yet you don't.
> I'd bet you would if you were in a whitewater kayak in class IV's, right?
> It would almost seem as though you've decided that wearing a helmet ALL the time, might be a little over the top...


You're off track, the original question was on PFD's. Don't try to turn this into the OSHA Cowboy. If I take your logic to the next step, I don't go near the water, period.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

backlashed said:


> You're off track, the original question was on PFD's. Don't try to turn this into the OSHA Cowboy. If I take your logic to the next step, I don't go near the water, period.


I'm perfectly on track. And yes, if you take my logic to the next step, you essentially stay indoors.
BUT, if you take your logic to your level (That being a 100% all the time, no exceptions PFD wearer), than a kayaking helmet would be perfectly logical and on track.

I own both a PFD and a helmet. They are both well used. And they also both get plenty of days off, per the situation.

In regards to low, summer pool Ohio streams, if I was only allowed one piece of safety equipment, it would no doubt be a pair of ankle high, felt soled leather boots.
I have one good friend that cut open his ankle on a rock, and then proceeded to get a skin eating virus, courtesy of the Shenandoah. Didn't walk for several months.
I have a few other good buddies that suffered a significant injury from slipping on smooth, algae covered rocks...breaking bones and busting open their heads.

Point is that PFD's, helmets, boots, pilot rescue knives, throw bags....they ALL have a time and place in the kayaking world, depending on conditions and situations. 
I just don't buy into a 100%, all the time rule with any of them.

Don't even get me started on guys who insist on toting their rescue knife on each trip. Tick, tick, tick goes the time bomb waiting to explode...
I'd much prefer to not be on the trip when they finally plunge that thing into their own thigh...


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## Rockyraccoon (Jun 19, 2012)

A PFD has never saved anyone who wasn't wearing it.

Most of the fishing I do is in a drift boat on shallow water rivers. We wear the fanny pack style inflatibles. They are comfortable in the summer heat but still give you peace of mind.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Rocky, you have to appreciate the dramatically different style of terrain we have in Ohio. You couldn't make it 50 feet in a drift boat on 95% of the streams we have. We don't have the gradient or the water necessary.
For instance, here's a list of local flows I like to kayak and their corresponding flow right at this minute.

Koko - 54 cfs
Lick - 88 cfs
Rocky F - 16 cfs
Paint - 8.2 cfs
Deer - 5.4 cfs

Average depth less than 24 inches. 
Here's what they look like this time of year. Notice the complete lack of terrain, hills, gradient, and lack of flow....notice the nearly endless depth of less than 12 inches.









In fact, I'd be fairly certain that if I WAS wearing an inflatable PFD, and I somehow hit my head and was unable to stand up in the knee deep water, that my PDF would not even self inflate. Certainly there wouldn't be enough depth to the water that my PFD could flip me over on my back, the way it's designed to do.


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## Rockyraccoon (Jun 19, 2012)

I agree that the terrain and flows are much different on a lot of the waters I use the driftboat on. But we also have a lot of that low water too.

I acknowledge the inflatable fanny packs are not suited to every situation. I was just posting an option. For kayaking, I'd wear a regular vest style PFD.

In the end, I think it's better to use some kind of a PFD though anytime your in the water. There always a pain in the hind side until the day you or someone you know needs them.


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## N8te (Jul 29, 2012)

In all honesty, I have never worn my life jacket. That being said, if you strap the life jacket over your front storage compartment in a kayak it makes a great paddle holder


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## craig82 (Jun 17, 2008)

I am new to kayaking and I always wear it. It also provides padding for my back. Like Fishlandr75 said, I spent the money on a good one thats comfortable.


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## Khersh88 (Aug 20, 2011)

Just saved a guy who got his kayak/mini canoe sunk out on mosquito a boat pulling a tube sunk him. He had a life jacket on and we got to him as soon at we saw his boat standing up and down. But i dont kayak or mini canoe maybe it was his fault i dont know. Regardless if he didnt have it on idk im sure he could have hung on for a while but maybe not.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

I have to admit, Ive always credited kayakers with more brains than have been displayed in this thread...... Even Bubba!

After reading and hearing about hundreds of drownings, the overwhelming common denominator is NO PFD. I cant remember ever hearing of a victim found with one on. Even then, the cause of death would be hypothermia, not drowning. 

"Death by water" is an equal opportunity killer. We could learn from the victims, except dead men tell no tales.

The excuses are many, but equally flawed. 
*I'm an excellent swimmer
*My PFD is uncomfortable.. under my seat .or below deck
*Im an experienced boater
*The water is shallow/warm
*The current is slow

In a small, personal watercraft there is only a scant few millimeters of hull between you and the water. Widow makers abound under the surface in any lake or river.
Its never expected, and you cant ever be overprepared.

I leave the following for those of you who like to roll the dice. Stay Alive My Friends. --Tim 






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVmeeYwEiQw&playnext=1&list=PL1F005AFE2EA3185F&feature=results_video


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

I often get flak because I have been a regular bicycle commuter at times, and I don't wear a helmet--ever. I tell people that I've been riding a bicycle almost 50 years and have ridden at least 50,000 miles without hitting my head, but that usually doesn't do any good. It's not that I am not concerned with saftey. I wear traffic safety vests and have very expensive flashers front and back. People still look at me like I don't have any sense, and they probably haven't ridden a bike in a decade, but for some reason we have become a society ridden with safety nazis who wag their fingers at anyone they think isn't following the safety propaganda.

How many people die each year from *boating related drowning*? Here are the U.S. Government statistics: 



> *Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: *How big is the problem?
> &#8226;From 2005-2009, there were an average of 3,533 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States &#8212; about ten deaths per day. An additional *347 people died each year from drowning in boating-related incidents*.2
> http://www.cdc.gov/HomeAndRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html


Of those 347, I wonder how many were kayakers: 47? 7? 

I'm not saying it's foolish to wear a PFD. I do it when I feel I have to. Everything we do involves a risk assesment......I'm going to go eat a cheeseburger now.

Very weird...Just as I finished typing this a story came on the radio about risk assesment and how bad humans are at it: seems we worry most about crap that is very unlikely to happen.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Sometimes but not often (brief but true). 
If im alone yes.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Ding... Ding... Ding... Take your corners gentleman... Get a drink of watet and continue to round 8.... IN THE " PM" SECTION OF THIS THREAD... thankyou


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

i yaked up and down the shenago today... it was 90 deg, wasn't over my head and stagnant water. duckweed is NOT my friend.lol.

i put the vest in the crate..


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

ezbite said:


> i yaked up and down the shenago today... it was 90 deg, over my head and stagnant water. duckweed is NOT my friend.lol.
> 
> i only put the vest in the crate..


I know some stretches of that river which have quite a few trees laying in it. Tough to get a cast in some spots without getting strained.


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## diesel11679 (May 29, 2012)

Been kayak fishing for a while now on a number of lakes in northeast ohio. I usually don't wear my PFD but I keep it very easily accessable. The only times I'll wear it is during cold weather, heavy boat traffic, windy conditions, Lake Erie, and moderate rivers (I don't usually fish in the rivers though.)


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## fishing pole (May 2, 2004)

I don;t think this post was for or against wearing a PFD. I think it was probably about "do you" or "don't you" and Why. That being said there may be only so many deaths by drowning and so on and so forth but once you have drowned you become the statistic. Yes we could go on and on about helmets and flares and such but there is a point when it becomes ridiculous. Looking at flares on a boat (required) I would bet most have never fired them in distress. Why have them? Same with a radio, sonar, and so on. I like to read fishing reports from everyone! Would be sad to loose a member over something so foolish.


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## landarcjedi (Mar 20, 2011)

Do you guys text while kayaking? Tell the truth.


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## sauguy (Apr 8, 2004)

Only if i am wearing my PFD


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## JOJOFLY (Jan 12, 2011)

Have to say my times of wearing pfd are the same as diesel"s- Mine is behind my Yak seat leashed to my pants-In the event I do end up in the water it will be with in reach.


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## Blue SeaFox (Jul 1, 2012)

I do not ware o e but I have one on the deck of my kayak. I just don't like waring them. Plus my kayak is really hard to flip over.


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## inrll (Apr 6, 2012)

100% of the time. In all honesty I probably only truly need it 50% of the time I'm fishing but I know myself and I know I will get lazy and not put it on that one time and thats when I'll need it.
I put my pliers and braid scissors in the pockets as an incentive so that its just easier to have it all right there and therefore easier just to go on and wear it even though I may not "need" it. 
I also want to set a good example for my children.
Here's the one I have. The MTI Solaris F-Spec


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## CatchNrelease (Mar 20, 2011)

I swim better without one


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## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

I wear mine alot of the time, especially in busy lakes, bad weather and when its wavy. id like a light weight one but man 100 bucks for some of them small self inflatable ones, thats crazy prices!


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