# East fork turnover...normal?



## bjmess (Jun 14, 2007)

Went to ef Friday morning to catch some crappie. At the ramp nearest to the dam there were a lot of dead fish washed up onto the ramp. These included crappie and shad mostly with some large buffalo also. There were literally hundreds of crappie swimming with theirs mouths at the surface of the water right on the banks. Looked like they were gulping for air. We saw large schools of crappie at a few other spots doing the same thing. No interest in feeding. They looked stressed. Needless to say only caught 2 fish. Water temp 70. We saw fish dead on the banks on this side of lake but not on the other side past no wake zone. Only species seen dead were crappie, shad and buffalo and a couple catfish. I have fished quite a bit during the fall over the years and have never seen this. Is this normal for fall turnover?


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## Mason52 (Aug 21, 2009)

bjmess said:


> Went to ef Friday morning to catch some crappie. At the ramp nearest to the dam there were a lot of dead fish washed up onto the ramp. These included crappie and shad mostly with some large buffalo also. There were literally hundreds of crappie swimming with theirs mouths at the surface of the water right on the banks. Looked like they were gulping for air. We saw large schools of crappie at a few other spots doing the same thing. No interest in feeding. They looked stressed. Needless to say only caught 2 fish. Water temp 70. We saw fish dead on the banks on this side of lake but not on the other side past no wake zone. Only species seen dead were crappie, shad and buffalo and a couple catfish. I have fished quite a bit during the fall over the years and have never seen this. Is this normal for fall turnover?


I really doubt that the lake is turning over with a 70 degree water temp. I'd look for another cause for the stress on these fish. Probably man made..


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## Mean Morone (Apr 12, 2004)

My buddy was there the other day and reported the same thing at the Afton ramp. I too doubt that the water is turning over. For the turn over to occur, the surface temps have to be cooler than the bottom layer. That's what causes the "turn over". My guess is that the water quality isn't good. There is a layer of water that is the right temp, right oxygen, and has plenty of food. If they venture out of that layer of water they die or are very stressed. Fishing for him wasn't very good. He found fish but was able to get two to bite. With this cooler weather we've had, the layer of quality water will expand freeing the fish. Fishing will improve if you will be able to find them. Once the water turns over they will have the entire water column to cruise in. Good luck.


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## Bigguy513 (Jun 7, 2015)

Mean Morone said:


> My buddy was there the other day and reported the same thing at the Afton ramp. I too doubt that the water is turning over. For the turn over to occur, the surface temps have to be cooler than the bottom layer. That's what causes the "turn over". My guess is that the water quality isn't good. There is a layer of water that is the right temp, right oxygen, and has plenty of food. If they venture out of that layer of water they die or are very stressed. Fishing for him wasn't very good. He found fish but was able to get two to bite. With this cooler weather we've had, the layer of quality water will expand freeing the fish. Fishing will improve if you will be able to find them. Once the water turns over they will have the entire water column to cruise in. Good luck.


 I know they have had algae blooms, but its been cool lately, I can't imagine that's still the case.


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## Mean Morone (Apr 12, 2004)

Bigguy513 said:


> I know they have had algae blooms, but its been cool lately, I can't imagine that's still the case.


My buddy didn't say anything about the algae. He did say that the fish he caught were very healthy looking and fought very good. I don't know if the algae blooms this summer is the cause of fish being stressed, or probably more accurate, a clue to the water not being of high quality. Poor water quality is probably the reason you don't hear of many Hybrids of 10 lbs or more being caught out of East Fork.


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## fishdealer04 (Aug 27, 2006)

I had a friend post pictures on Facebook that he took at the ramp. He said he was planning to call the ODNR on Monday and report it (which I am sure already has been done). The water does not seem hot enough to cause a turnover or a kill like that. I too would agree that it is probably something man made. Shad are very sensitive so I can see them dying easily. However to see the pictures of the buffalo and catfish...both are pretty hardy fish that can live in a lack of oxygen environment and it rougher water conditions so if they are dying it has to be something a little more serious I would imagine. I am very curious to hear any info on what is or has happened.


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

I was at the slade road ramp earlier today. All I saw was shad, crappie, and carp. I saw hundreds of crappie surfacing looking like they were on their last breath


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## Mean Morone (Apr 12, 2004)

fishdealer04 said:


> I had a friend post pictures on Facebook that he took at the ramp. He said he was planning to call the ODNR on Monday and report it (which I am sure already has been done). The water does not seem hot enough to cause a turnover or a kill like that. I too would agree that it is probably something man made. Shad are very sensitive so I can see them dying easily. However to see the pictures of the buffalo and catfish...both are pretty hardy fish that can live in a lack of oxygen environment and it rougher water conditions so if they are dying it has to be something a little more serious I would imagine. I am very curious to hear any info on what is or has happened.


Yes I had the same thought when my buddy told me that carp, buffs and catfish were all struggling. They are pretty hardy fish like you said. Hopefully it is a short term issue. We did have a bunch of rain but I can't remember if the fish kill occurred before or after the rain. Does anyone know for sure? If it happened after the rain, it could be that run off is causing the problem.


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## sharp33 (Mar 30, 2015)

Was there last weekend and saw the same thing . Really weird to say the least . We hardly caught anything and East Fork used to be one of my favorites.


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## Stampede (Apr 11, 2004)

I drove across the damn sunday. By the tower at the 222 ramp i didn't see anything but when you cross the main damn, looking over at afton there were lots of dead fish , some of fair size, floating in the water and many washed up along the banks. There was one person in a boat, very slowly trolling and looking like they were doing something, like checking the water.Wasn't fishing.


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

DNR claims lack of oxygen on the one side of the lake (dam side). Which is the only side I saw any dead fish or any struggling fish for that matter. They also said the rain we had a few days ago should help?


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## clehew (Jul 3, 2009)

I've heard that the stuff used to kill the algae blooms also takes the oxygen out of the water. This could be the culprit. I called the park office today and they said it is a known issue and they are looking into but have no info at this time. BS.


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## OutdoorLife (Sep 28, 2012)

This is tragic really. That we can't get the DNR or other agencies to manage this better is a shame. As an eastsider, EF should be an amazing resource but it is just wasting away with nothing that seems like a plan.


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

Here is an article on it.

http://m.wlwt.com/news/low-oxygen-l...aign=News&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_source=Social


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## OutdoorLife (Sep 28, 2012)

Turnover? I guess it could be that but it seems something could help if that's all it is. Increase flow? Decrease flow? I'm no expert, that lake just seems neglected to me. Always having issues. Algae bloom, E. coli, turnover = terrible fishing and conditions


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

I've always been told that EF is a flood control lake, and not a fishing lake? Maybe that's just how the state sees it. I wish it was managed better, I could be on the water and fishing in less than 20 minutes.


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## lonewolf (Mar 4, 2010)

This really sucks! I'm finally not working overtime and have time to fish in the evening.


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## TurtleJugger (Jun 2, 2013)

Ya think the catfish are fine? Low oxygen fish and I bet they are eating fat right now. I wanna take my boat out this evening for catfish. Would I be wasting my time at Eastfork? I wanna fish a lake with 10hp so if not I might fish Grant Lake or Rocky Fork


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## Stampede (Apr 11, 2004)

Hey turtlejugger, how is grant for cats. I've never made it to that lake.


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

TurtleJugger said:


> Ya think the catfish are fine? Low oxygen fish and I bet they are eating fat right now. I wanna take my boat out this evening for catfish. Would I be wasting my time at Eastfork? I wanna fish a lake with 10hp so if not I might fish Grant Lake or Rocky Fork


I caught 3 in less than a hour Sunday


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## TurtleJugger (Jun 2, 2013)

Stampede said:


> Hey turtlejugger, how is grant for cats. I've never made it to that lake.


 I don't know I've never fished there before but I've heard it was good Chanel cat fishing with the occasional flathead.


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## Mean Morone (Apr 12, 2004)

OutdoorLife said:


> Turnover? I guess it could be that but it seems something could help if that's all it is. Increase flow? Decrease flow? I'm no expert, that lake just seems neglected to me. Always having issues. Algae bloom, E. coli, turnover = terrible fishing and conditions


I find it strange that they would blame it on the turnover. They make it sound like this is some kind of unique occurrence. The Fall turnover happens every fall. If turnover equals dead fish then there would be a fish kill every fall. Like I've said before, the top layer has to be cooler than the bottom layer for it to turn over. The surface temp was 72 a few days ago. Something sounds fishy to me.


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## Mason52 (Aug 21, 2009)

Mean Morone said:


> I find it strange that they would blame it on the turnover. They make it sound like this is some kind of unique occurrence. The Fall turnover happens every fall. If turnover equals dead fish then there would be a fish kill every fall. Like I've said before, the top layer has to be cooler than the bottom layer for it to turn over. The surface temp was 72 a few days ago. Something sounds fishy to me.


Fall turnover:
As temperatures drop toward 50 degrees F in the fall,
the epilimnion cools and becomes both more dense and heavier.This cooler, more dense water sinks and fall winds stir the epilimnion which gradually erodes the thermocline. Eventually, the waters become uniform in density and temperature. This leads to a complete mixing of the water column which is known as “fall turnover.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Mean Morone said:


> I find it strange that they would blame it on the turnover. They make it sound like this is some kind of unique occurrence. The Fall turnover happens every fall. If turnover equals dead fish then there would be a fish kill every fall. Like I've said before, the top layer has to be cooler than the bottom layer for it to turn over. The surface temp was 72 a few days ago. Something sounds fishy to me.


I've been thinking the same thing.
The state did say they tested the water and it did have very low oxygen.


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## OutdoorLife (Sep 28, 2012)

I know other lakes that have had fish kills - Cumberland comes to mind a few years ago. Thousands of 5 to 10lb walleye laying belly up. Stripers all over dead. Would be curious why they deemed the cause there.


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## OutdoorLife (Sep 28, 2012)

This is a pretty interesting read - maybe someone from EF will take notice: http://www.aquaticsystems.com/fish-kill-causes-and-prevention


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## bjmess (Jun 14, 2007)

I think The fish kills at cumberland in the past were sometimes related to pulling water thru the dam by the corp. The water level was down 2 ft below summer pool last Friday at east fork when I witnessed the kill. Maybe they pulled water to start lowering for the fall and sucked the well oxygenated water right out.


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## Bigguy513 (Jun 7, 2015)

clehew said:


> I've heard that the stuff used to kill the algae blooms also takes the oxygen out of the water. This could be the culprit. I called the park office today and they said it is a known issue and they are looking into but have no info at this time. BS.


Scary stuff. There is no reason this lake should be turning over like this unless they dumped a bunch of chemicals in it.


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## Ol'Bassman (Sep 9, 2008)

I wouldn't be eating any fish caught out of there until they figure out what caused the die off. Out of
curiosity, did anyone see any dead muskies? If so, about how big?


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## Mean Morone (Apr 12, 2004)

bjmess said:


> I think The fish kills at cumberland in the past were sometimes related to pulling water thru the dam by the corp. The water level was down 2 ft below summer pool last Friday at east fork when I witnessed the kill. Maybe they pulled water to start lowering for the fall and sucked the well oxygenated water right out.


I have a buddy that was actually on Lake Cumberland when the big die off started a few years ago. He is friends with the state people down there and they told him that it had to do with the heavy rains the lake received in the spring. There is a small layer of optimum water that the fish can survive in and in the case of the Lake Cumberland die off, that layer was smaller due to the draw down to fix the dam. When the heavy rains occurred in the spring, they had to keep the water level low so work could continue on the dam and proceeded to release water at a higher rate than normal. The water comes out of the bottom of the dam which is near where the thermocline is. This reduced the size of the thermocline and "squeezed" the stripers in to a much smaller area. If there is no food there, they might leave to find it. Once out of the good zone, they become susceptible to low oxygen and or high water temps. If they refuse to leave the safe zone to find food because the water temps are right, then they starve to death. That's why you see so many skinny stripers caught out of lakes with poor water quality. That's what caused the die off on Cumberland.


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## sharp33 (Mar 30, 2015)

Ol'Bassman said:


> I wouldn't be eating any fish caught out of there until they figure out what caused the die off. Out of
> curiosity, did anyone see any dead muskies? If so, about how big?


Was down there two weeks ago and we saw two floating that were about 16 inches long . One was barely moving , really pretty fish. At that time there were thousands of fish sucking the top of the water. I knew something was wrong so I told the wildlife officer at the dock but he didn't seem too worried . It's a shame because I always loved fishing there and the camping is great.


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## Ol'Bassman (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks for the info. One of the big mysteries about East Fork is where are the larger muskies? The state has been stocking EF yearly for the past 6-7? years with advanced fingerlings so there should be some 40" muskies being caught but we don't hear any reports about that. Central Ohio and Southwest Ohio musky clubs had a tournament there last September and no one caught a musky. If anyone has any ideas as to why that is, I'd be very interested in discussing it. 

I think Mason pretty much debunked the official media story about the cause being turn-over. What happened does not fit the definition. There could be many reason for the die off. Everything from a chemical imbalance to some escaped natural noxious gas brew from the bottom of the lake but I don't see how it would be from turn-over.


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## Mean Morone (Apr 12, 2004)

Ol'Bassman said:


> Thanks for the info. One of the big mysteries about East Fork is where are the larger muskies? The state has been stocking EF yearly for the past 6-7? years with advanced fingerlings so there should be some 40"es being caught but we don't hear any reports about that. Central Ohio and Southwest Ohio musky clubs had a tournament there last September and no one caught a musky. If anyone has any ideas as to why that is, I'd be very interested in discussing it.
> 
> I think Mason pretty much debunked the official media story about the cause being turn-over. What happened does not fit the definition. There could be many reason for the die off. Everything from a chemical imbalance to some escaped natural noxious gas brew from the bottom of the lake but I don't see how it would be from turn-over.


Mason, I was there yesterday to see the carnage. I did see one small musky about 17 inches dead on the bank. The vast majority were Buffalo. That lake has always been full of Buffalo, so a little thinning of the heard can't hurt.  I don't know why there aren't many big musky caught out of there. It seems to have plenty of shallow protection for the fingerlings in the coves. There is plenty of big gizzard shad available for the adults too. I just think the water quality is bad for that lake due to runoff combined with the fact the state always holds this lake back in the spring during heavy rains. I don't think it gets flushed good which results in the algae blooms during the summer(just my theory). One last thing. If you have a sensitive nose, I would recommend staying away from East Fork for a couple of weeks, maybe longer. I'm pretty sure I saw buzzards belching and farting from being stuffed, so it might take awhile for them to clean up the mess.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

whodeynati said:


> I've always been told that EF is a flood control lake, and not a fishing lake? Maybe that's just how the state sees it. I wish it was managed better, I could be on the water and fishing in less than 20 minutes.


That's the case with a lot of lakes in Ohio particularly if they're manage by the Army Corps of Engineers or an outfit like the Muskingum Watershed Conservancy District. Their purpose is flood control, and fishing, boating, water skiing, etc. are ancillary activities. 

As far as "managing" something like an algae bloom or low oxygen content of the water, I don't know how anyone would accomplish that. I've heard of no foolproof solutions so far.


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## XUbassfishing (Feb 18, 2014)

I know I'm very late on this but I was there when all the dead fish were floating and haven't been back fishing since. I'm sure it is okay seeing as the number of dead fish is tiny compared to the number of fish in the lake but typically what happens with the algae is that when it dies in large amounts you have a lot of oxygen being sucked up by the microorganisms that are consuming the algae and therefore dead spots can form where certain areas of the lake may have very low dissolved oxygen concentrations. Without sufficient moving water or some other source of oxygenated water this can lead to large fish kills. I have to believe with the algae problems in East Fork every year that this was the issue this fall, possibly just a matter of large amounts of algae dying in a short amount of time. Runoff must be the issue because naturally lakes typically don't have algae problems like this. All that phosphorous and nitrogen building up season to season really can make the algae blooms explode like they do. If the ODNR thinks turnover just happened to bring thousands of dead fish off the bottom of the lake someone needs to educate them because that would be ignorant. I have a feeling they are just trying to keep the peace though. That many dead fish cannot possibly be defined as normal.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

They didn't say "turnover just happened to bring thousands of dead fish off the bottom of the lake"
They said there were low oxygen levels in the lake and the fish were suffocating. Seeing all the fish up on the surface back then it made sense to me. I think they reported oxygen levels at around 50% of the normal levels.
Turnover brings that un-oxygenated water from the bottom of the lake up to the surface so it does makes sense.


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## XUbassfishing (Feb 18, 2014)

I appreciate the input and I'll bet the ODNR has a few ideas of the cause and I'm not sure if they have made that public outside of low oxygen levels. I know the reported information on this forum sometimes needs to be taken with a grain of salt but turnover by itself isn't the answer. Wouldn't know without all the facts, however I was only responding to the title of the thread and indicating a large kill like that is not in fact normal, i.e., there are most likely multiple factors like worsening algal blooms or not enough surface area to provide the winds necessary to dissolve oxygen into the water. I'm not sure, all I know is the thousands of dead fish has a reason more likely associated with something like fertilizer from the LMR being carried into the lake, etc. rather than turnover caused low oxygen levels and now all these fish died.


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## XUbassfishing (Feb 18, 2014)

Fish kills happen for a variety of reasons, although not every lake that turns over quickly has fish kills. I'm suggesting there may be underlying factors that imply a larger issue in the lake. Just a shame because I like that lake and it pained me to see all those dead fish.


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