# rod action copared to sensitivity



## Streetguy (Mar 23, 2007)

I under stand that the action of a rod is how far the rod bend from the tip. Also that a slower action rod will cast farhter than a fast action. Dose a fast action rod make the rod more sensitive? Will a fast action rod respond faster to lite Quick bites than a slower action rod? 
Thankyou


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

The weight you are using to load a blank is far more critical to casting distance than action. When you hit the sweet spot on a blank, the blank will flex deeply into the blank, regardless of where the blank begins to flex. Action will impact how quickly you need move the rod to get it to load deeply, but not have so much effect on casting distance when comparing rods of the same power (actual power, not manufacturers power rating), but different action.

Do this to understand how a blank loads. Tie or hook the line to an immovable object. Now start pulling. When you keep the tip pointing 90 degrees or less to the butt of the rod, you will find that as you load the rod, the tip section begins to straighten out, and the mid and butt section are doing most of the flexing. The same thing happens in casting, but on much shorter time scales, of course.

All things equal, which is seldom the case when comparing rods of different action, the faster rod will have a higher resonant frequency. The resonant frequency is related to the efficiency of the rod. A more efficient rod will dampen out vibrations more quickly. So, yes a faster action rod will respond more quickly to light bites, but when all things are considered, the differences are small enough that you would not likely be able to tell any difference. The time scales involved here are shorter than the time scales that it takes for the nerves in your hand to feel a bump and have your brain translate the signal.

To have the most sensitive rod possible, you need to build the rod as light as you can, paying attention particularly to any weight you add in the tip section, as the penalties paid for adding weight increases exponentially as you approach the tip.

Choosing the action for a particular build has more to do with setting the hook and keeping the fish on afterwards. From a fishing standpoint, I want a fast or extra fast action rod, unless there is a reason otherwise. An extra fast action rod will have a more limber tip than a slower action rod, and will load lighter lures better, but still have power in the butt for after the fish is on. As you go to slower and slower rods, you start to limit how much power there is in the butt.

On single hook presentations, you want to drive the hook and keep it there by keeping a good amount of pressure on the fish. The way that fast and extra fast action rods load will allow you to move as much line as possible, with the power reserve to keep pressure on the fish.

The only times I want a moderate fast or slower rod are for ripping fish out of dense cover on a short line (goal is to minimize the penalty for high sticking, leading to lower rod failure rates), and for crankbaits. For crankbaits, you want a combination of a slower rod response at the time of the bite, and a rod that flexes deeply to help keep the line tight on jumping fish.

Joe


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

street guy said:


> I under stand that the action of a rod is how far the rod bend from the tip. Also that a slower action rod will cast farhter than a fast action. Dose a fast action rod make the rod more sensitive? Will a fast action rod respond faster to lite Quick bites than a slower action rod?
> Thankyou


The action does not necessarily affect vibration transmission. Mod/fast graphite blanks can transmit vibration as well as x-fast graphite blanks.


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

I should clarify and add that the material the blank is constructed from is the most important to sensitivity and efficiency. After that weight added to the tip, total build weight, and the other things making minimal impact.

Joe


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## Streetguy (Mar 23, 2007)

So a quality rod will help you see and feel strikers better? For example an UL fastaction Uglystix may not be as senstive as an Med power med action St croix.


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## leeabu (Apr 10, 2004)

More importantly, the St Croix will allow you feel strikes you will NEVER feel with the Ugly Stick.


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

Street Guy,

Yep. Go to your favorite tackle shop, preferably one that carries some higher end stuff. To get an idea of the sensitivity of a rod, you can give it the 'carpet test'. Find a patch of carpet or another textured surface in the shop. Take a selection of rods over and hold them in your hand as you do when fishing. Drag the tip top as lightly as you can across the surface. You will find the rods built on higher end blanks to transmit more info from the surface to your hand.

Of course this all related to feel. If you are fishing with a bobber or another fashion where you are relying on a visible indication of the strike, you may be just as well, or better served by a rod built on a lower end material, because you don't need the added feel. The slower response of the rod could actually be a good thing in some instances.

Joe


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

street guy said:


> I under stand that the action of a rod is how far the rod bend from the tip. Also that a slower action rod will cast farhter than a fast action. Dose a fast action rod make the rod more sensitive? Will a fast action rod respond faster to lite Quick bites than a slower action rod?
> Thankyou



There is a few basic terms that many fishermen get mixed up. Its not their fault though. Action describes to you where the rod bends along the blank. The faster the action the more it will bend toward the tip of the blank. Action are generally measured as:

Extra Fast
Fast
Mod-Fast
Moderate
Slow
Extra Slow(noodle rods)


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

Power refers to the amount of strength or the amount of PSI the rod can deliver to the hook point.Generally powers are rated two way the most common being:

Ultra-light
Light
Medlight
Med
Med-Hvy
Hvy
Extra Hvy

Some companies do use a number system that basically follows the list above with ultra-light being number 1 and you just continue down the list from there in number order.


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

Rod sensitivity is the ability of the blank to transmit vibration from the lure up into the anglers hand and arm.Line can and does affect this also, but the rod matters more then the line.Fishing rods are made out of many materials:

Wood
Fiberglass
Grapite
Composites(mixture of materials)

What the rod handle is made out of also plays a role in sensitivity. Cork is the most used handle material cause it has the best of everything. But the handle can be made of EVA foam, wood and even bone.


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

Here is a good overview of basic fishing rod info. 

Fishing Rod Basics


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

The article by Emory Harry at this link is a great article on blank properties. It covers durability, sensitivity, and other properties of blanks. It does get a little intense on the physics side at some points. If you need anything cleared up, let me know.

http://www.rodbuildingtutorials.com/paperschartstables.htm

Joe


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## SMBHooker (Jan 3, 2008)

Great post . . . 

I'm looking to purchase a St. Croix Rod in the next week. I know I will be purchasing a great rod because of the quality of their rods however, I want to make the right selection. 

At this point I'm not sure if I'll be purchasing a premier, avid, or legend series. I am looking for the right action & power that best suits crankbait fishing for Smallmouth bass in wading situations.

Among these three series of St Croix rods what would be the best models for this application????

I think the PC70MM model in the premier seris will do the job but, I'm leaning toward the avid or legend series rods and am not sure which to choose.

I need a rod that has more give and bend in it than just in the tip so I don't rip hooksets from the smallmouth and also have enough play in it to work through the jumps this species are known for???

These rods are not cheap and I don't want to purchase one and wish I would have went with a different model.

Appreciate any advise from those who've used them or know the right combo of action and power!!!

Thanks


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

SMBHooker said:


> Great post . . .
> 
> I'm looking to purchase a St. Croix Rod in the next week. I know I will be purchasing a great rod because of the quality of their rods however, I want to make the right selection.
> 
> ...


When i get home i will look at what model number the one i use the most is. What kind of crankbaits are using the deep, mid or shallow running? 

Bandits, Strike Kings, Manns, Bomber.
_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors_


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

Wade fishing is my thing and that is something I do a ton of every year and land lots of monster smallies. The cranks I run the most are Bandit footloose and Series 100. Now one thing I would do is get rid of the front hook it will save you some money. Now on to the rod, I use the 6'6" you don't want to go any longer then that on a Crank rod for wading(in my opinion) . The Med power Mod action crankbait rod in any of those series will work great for you.I have that model in the Triumph Series and Avid. I use a Shimano Curado 50 with 8lb Suffix ProMix or Siege on them.


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## SMBHooker (Jan 3, 2008)

OIM said:


> Wade fishing is my thing and that is something I do a ton of every year and land lots of monster smallies. The cranks I run the most are Bandit footloose and Series 100. Now one thing I would do is get rid of the front hook it will save you some money. Now on to the rod, I use the 6'6" you don't want to go any longer then that on a Crank rod for wading(in my opinion) . The Med power Mod action crankbait rod in any of those series will work great for you.I have that model in the Triumph Series and Avid. I use a Shimano Curado 50 with 8lb Suffix ProMix or Siege on them.


I mostly use mid to shallow running crankbaits, I prefer bomber lures however, I do throw a large variety including Strike King and others. Spring time I really like mixing it up with some jerkbaits as well, these are usually Rapalas Flat Rap or X-Rap. 

I seem to favor the 7 rods though, casting distance mostly. What advantages have you noticed in the 66 rods over other lengths for river wading applications? Ill be pairing my new rod with a BPS 5:1 Johnny Morris w/8 or 10 lb Trilene Trans Optic. 

Do you miss many strikes with the front hook missing? 

I am leaning toward the Avid or Legend Series because I like the insurance of knowing there is a lifetime warranty. Do you notice any considerable difference in signal transmission when feeling bottom structure and feeling the strike between the Triumph rod and your Avid?


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## NewbreedFishing (Apr 15, 2004)

Grub man...very interesting the way you broke things down. Thank U!

SMB i think this is the rod your looking for man!! 
I love mine and when i am wading this is the rod that gets the nod. 
It vibrates like a doc johnson when using a crank or spinnerbait. Just enough give to not pull the bait away from a fast striking fish and keeps those trebles buttoned. I have stuck some 7-8lb bass with it and quickly took control. As you know it comes with the lifetime replacement warranty with upgrade option. 

http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/St_Croix_Legend_Tournament_Bass_Casting_Rods/descpage-SCLTC.html



St. Tournament Cast Rod 6'8" Medium
Taper Line Wt. Lure Wt. Guides Handle Type Handle Length Price Stock Qty 
Extra Fast 8-14lb 1/4-5/8oz 9+Tip Tournament 1
Click to View 13-1/2" $230.00 Yes 
LTBC68MXF, Line Weight: 8-14 lbs. Extra Fast Action. Top Water Rod. Ricos, Spooks, Sammys, Vixen. You name it this rod will do it. Also good for tubes, grubs, and unweighted soft plastics.


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

SMBHooker said:


> I mostly use mid to shallow running crankbaits, I prefer bomber lures however, I do throw a large variety including Strike King and others. Spring time I really like mixing it up with some jerkbaits as well, these are usually Rapalas Flat Rap or X-Rap.
> 
> I seem to favor the 7 rods though, casting distance mostly. What advantages have you noticed in the 66 rods over other lengths for river wading applications? Ill be pairing my new rod with a BPS 5:1 Johnny Morris w/8 or 10 lb Trilene Trans Optic.
> 
> ...


I find it a bit easier to tell what type of structure I am feeling with the avid, but I like the handle better on the Triumph.When the fish strikes it pretty much loads up pretty well on its own. I wouldn't cast and work baits like X-Raps on a rod like this though. You will not get very good action out of the bait when working it. Slash baits/stickbaits need faster action rod. I fish them on the same rod I use for soft plastic jerk baits. Which is Fenwick HMX 6'6" ML It has a ton of backbone for a ML.

I use a lot of 7 and 6'8" rods out on Eire or boat fishing though for the extra casting distance. In a River I want accuracy on mid range distances. You are getting closer to the fish in the river so there is no need for that extra length. The 6' 6" does a great job at this. I would love to get a rod in 6'4" for stickbaits fishing I can't find one I like though.I feel I good get a better action out of the stick and slash baits with a shorter rod.

On the hook thing I have not seen a decrease in positive hook ups. Most of the fish caught before I started doing this where mainly on the back hook anyways. I lose fewer cranks this way. I have upgrade my hooks though also. I am wanting to try those hooks that KVD is talking about and see how they work for me.


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## Streetguy (Mar 23, 2007)

I 'am also looking to by a st croix or a g. loomis. I was looking for one for perch fishing from shore and somtimes in a boat. I'am not sure if I need a walleye rod, a drop shot, or just a panfish rod. What action and power do I need.


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

street guy said:


> I 'am also looking to by a st croix or a g. loomis. I was looking for one for perch fishing from shore and somtimes in a boat. I'am not sure if I need a walleye rod, a drop shot, or just a panfish rod. What action and power do I need.


Are you going to be fishing from the pier, or in docks and marinas? I use a St. Croix Premier Model PS66LF for my all around panfish rod.


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## Streetguy (Mar 23, 2007)

I usally fish from piers. Fishing on the bottom using spreaders or crappie rigs.


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## OIM (Feb 19, 2011)

street guy said:


> I usally fish from piers. Fishing on the bottom using spreaders or crappie rigs.


you may want to look at something in a 7 to 7'6"ft ml or light, depending on how much weight you use when fishing, It might help you get out a bit further.I don't really fish off piers much for perch so, i can't give you the prefect rod for this. I just know that when I have I always wished I had a longer fishing rod for casting further.


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