# Wrong Forum, But Might Work!



## Dana.Birrell (Apr 23, 2012)

Hello Pond Guys!

I know this is the WRONG place to post this, but I think I might get the most accurate of information here.

I have a 40 gallon Aquarium with a small rock bass, a small bass, a plecostomus and two green sunfish in it. This tank runs a 50 gallon filter with no additional aeration, natural river rock, a few snails and muscles (which were attached to river rock and somehow survived) a few big tad poles and a few crayfish. I put about 20 comets and 5-10 of the smallest gold fish I can find in it every week or two.

I tried to introduce a TINY (2-3" at best) crappie into the tank I had gotten from a private pond. It died within 24 hours. I figured this might have had something to do with the time it took to to get bait (we were using them as bait) go fishing and get home. 

So, I went and picked up another crappie from a different private pond (about 5" this time). Not long after we transferred everyone into the 40 gallon aquarium. When I went to start transferring the fish, he was not able to keep proper upright orientation. It seemed pretty sudden he started to deteriorate. I took everything out of the tank and left the crappie in alone until I got almost all of the water out. At which point I put him into his own container with the filter and nothing else. He seemed to recover well over the course of about 90 minutes and was starting to move around. He was starting to recover!

When I finally got everything into the tank, it was pretty much chocolate milk. It almost reminded me of Hoover (or every lake in Ohio). I put the Crappie in first along with the filter and the bait fish/crawdads/tadpoles/pleco (which was a mistake because my pleco is a real piece of work) in hope he would find his own space before the others were introduced. the remainder of the fish were staged in every 20-30 minutes based on how aggressive they were. We put the large mouth and our bigger green sunfish in dead last. The bass got a bit impatient and took a leap out of the stock pot he was in. Came into the living room and my bass was sitting on the floor waiting for a cat to find him and ensure he was used appropriately. Thankfully the bass survived and was more than happy to get back into his tank and simply kill a few minnows to show me how indignant he was.

Once the tank was cleared up a bit, we sucked out a bunch of the plant matter that was sitting on top of the substrate and then started placing rocks strategically to created multiple little caves for the fish to hide in. Once I had all of the caves built, the water was pretty cloudy so I waited another hour (I mean, I went upstairs to play Destiny for a while) came back and I couldn't find the crappie... I looked for a bit, and then looked on the floor. Realized crappie aren't jumpers... and I had my lid on already, I got a bit frantic, looking all around. I looked at the back and I saw his tail... nothing else... Turns out, when I was SLOWLY putting the big rocks down on the bottom... it wasn't slow enough. The crappie was stuck underneath one of our larger rocks. I pulled him out and he was still alive, but barely. I put the fish out of his misery and now I'm trying to accommodate having a crappie in my tank.

Could the crappie be dying due to lack of dissolved O2 in the water? There is frankly a lot of life in my tank. Though, my other fish do WONDERFULLY. After we (my plecostomus and I) pull more of this plant matter and waste out of the substrate, I'm thinking about installing an aerator under the substrate that would extend the entire length of the tank.

Any thoughts?


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

How long has the tank been setup with fish? Like total. Sounds like you are just setting it up but not sure. Have you tested the water at all? I'm guessing your ammonia levels are through he roof. High ammonia levels impair the fishes ability to absorb oxygen so it wouldn't matter how much dissolved oxygen really if they are swimming around ammonia(waste). Sorry but sounds like a disaster waiting to happen!

Heres a decent link explaining the nitrogen cycle that needs to happen in a fish tank. Until then, its more like a toilet.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=2303

We all know how big bass can get. If thats a common pleco, it can get just as big. My advice would be to have a fish fry or try to locate a much larger aquarium and introduce fish SLOWLY to give your filtration a chance to keep up. There are quite a few fish keeping forums on the internet, I'd seek one out and do some reading. I like reefcentral.com (marine but same general rules apply,http://corareef.org/forum/ (central ohio reef association, again marine), http://www.plantedtank.net/ etc etc etc.


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## Dana.Birrell (Apr 23, 2012)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> How long has the tank been setup with fish? Like total. Sounds like you are just setting it up but not sure. Have you tested the water at all? I'm guessing your ammonia levels are through he roof. High ammonia levels impair the fishes ability to absorb oxygen so it wouldn't matter how much dissolved oxygen really if they are swimming around ammonia(waste). Sorry but sounds like a disaster waiting to happen!
> 
> Heres a decent link explaining the nitrogen cycle that needs to happen in a fish tank. Until then, its more like a toilet.
> 
> ...


Out tank has been set up for almost 5 months in the 20 gallon. As for the bass he is only 3" - None of the fish are large enough even to feed an infant.

I have not tested the ammonia levels, but I will more than lilely be doing this in the next few days.

- As well, the crappie is the ONLY species I've had problems with. The bass took right to the tank and was eating within about 12 hours.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Dana.Birrell said:


> Out tank has been set up for almost 5 months in the 20 gallon. As for the bass he is only 3" - None of the fish are large enough even to feed an infant.
> 
> I have not tested the ammonia levels, but I will more than lilely be doing this in the next few days.


Hmm, well yeah. Always wash your filter media in tank water. Our chlorinated tap water kills all the beneficial bacteria. That said, be sure to use dechlorinated water. Im not sure how much an aerator is going to do for you as I don't think dissolved oxygen is the issue. We'll see if anyone else chimes in. You have to be careful about using rocks and stuff from the wild as they can be quite polluted. In a river they aren't so dangerous but in a closed system like you have there, they could be poisoning everything.

Also, Bass eat. Everything and always. They really are eating machines. I'd expect it to eat right up until it keeled over. Thats really only an indication that the thing is still alive lol. Doesn't tell you much about anything else really. They are pretty hardy fish. Crappie on the other hand, not so much as you're beginning to find out.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

here ya go. Crappie in an aquarium discussion!

http://www.crappie.com/crappie/main-crappie-fishing-forum/1975-crappie-aquarium/


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## Gone Wishin (Mar 16, 2013)

To validate the following response, i was an Aquarium service and installation technician for Aquarium Adventure and have done Aquarium Work at the Cleveland Zoo. 

First and most importantly, the tank is over populated in its current state. A SAFE and accurate rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of water and the inch is measured by the size that the fish WILL get not its current size. Also, the Pleco is literally only creating waste and not benefiting you in any way, you will have the same results without it. They just get big and make a mess. Your filtration sounds sufficient but make sure you are replacing the appropriate filter media as needed (Carbon). You have very messy/dirty fish. I suggest atleast a 20% water change once or twice a week, make sure you are vacuuming the gravel/substrate for waste when you do this. Fish waste turns into Nitrates and Nitrites which makes the water almost impossible to keep fish alive in if they reach high enough levels.The reason the current fish are thriving in it is because they have adapted to the poor condition of the water for lack of a better term. As for the crappie... If you were taken and placed into an atmosphere you had never been that was very dirty and with little to no oxygen you wouldn't do too well either... sounds funny but the same applies for even a fish. To acclimate new fish effectively, put them in a bucket or large bag with the water they came in, then introduce a few cups of the new water every 20 mins or so until they are in majority new water, then take the fish out and put it in the tank without getting any of the "foreign" water in the tank. As for the fish dying or under the rock, fish will wedge themselves under a rock to die. It probably went there itself. My suggestions... Get on a good cleaning schedule with the tank, get the water quality back up and get rid of some of those fish. With a 40gal tank i would pick 3 of the fish that you mentioned or want and thats it. Aquarium stores or pet stores sell test strips that test for all of the necessary things for like 10 bucks (Nitrates, Nitrites, PH, Ammonia). Additional oxygen is helpful but if your filter is functioning properly it should move enough water to create a sufficient amount. Be careful with your decorations/rocks you could have introduced something harmful into the tank, feel free to soak them in a 10 or 20% bleach to water solution. Just rinse thoroughly. Apologize for the rant, feel free to PM me if you have anything else. Good luck with your tank!


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Good post there, lots of good info, 
Salmonid


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## Dana.Birrell (Apr 23, 2012)

All good information and all are things we are doing very regularly. I'll give up on the crappie until I get into a place I can have a much larger tank.


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## Gone Wishin (Mar 16, 2013)

Just for reference, if you moved items in the tank and it turned to "chocolate milk" there is no way the tank can have good water quality or changes being done. Cleaning should kick up minimal dirt/debri if regularly cleaned.


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

I've had over 23 Ohio species in my river tank (150 gallon) at one time or another.
Crappie just don't seem to do well in tanks, never had one last more than a month or two.
They rank right up there with emerald shiners, they're just tough to keep.


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## Georgio_P (Jun 4, 2010)

Maybe there needs to be an aquarium forum here, but this post seems more suitable for an aquarium keeping site.


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