# Rod Holder Question



## Stonecat (Feb 6, 2011)

I recently picked some single Tite-Lok rod holders I plan on using for trolling the lake. My question is, when mounting the brackets, would it be OK to use a regular metal screw or should I use a flathead bolt and nut. Thanks...


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## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

stainless flathead screw with a stainless flat washer and nylock locking nut on the back side is what I used - 1/4"-20 unc if memory serves me right. They are still in place and have never come loose in 3 years,


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

What Seaturd said nothing less.


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## ohiojmj (Apr 16, 2004)

On my last thin tin boat, I had to use .125" thick rectangular backing plate with 4 holes because I was concerned about tear out. I also used stainless fasteners, like Seaturd suggested for singles and the triple pedestal mounts.


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Seaturd said:


> stainless flathead screw with a stainless flat washer and nylock locking nut on the back side is what I used - 1/4"-20 unc if memory serves me right. They are still in place and have never come loose in 3 years,


Seaturd meant to say bolt. A screw doesn't use a nut. And like Ohiojmj says, depending on the surface you are mounting to, a backing may be necessary.


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## eyesman_01 (Jan 4, 2007)

I also have the Tite-Loks on my aluminum boat. Stainless hardware and a backing plate are a must. I used .250 aluminum for my backing plates.


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## The Producer (Nov 5, 2009)

Workdog said:


> go to home depot and walk down the hardware isle. there is a multitude of
> screws that use nuts.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

*Bolt versus Screw definition*​
Because various organizations have thoroughly confused everyone regarding this simple definition, the remainder of this article dispels several myths and discusses the full rationale explaining the above, correct definition.

(1) Several dictionaries, Machinery's Handbook, part specification sheets, military specifications, bolt manufacturers, and vendor catalogs are wrong and have botched the above, unambiguous definition. Their definitions of bolt versus screw are arbitrary, random, ambiguous, nondefinitive, and do not align with common sense. Having "credible" sources such as Machinery's Handbook, ASME, ISO, and military specification sheets misusing and arbitrarily misdefining the words throws the whole world off. Then eventually most dictionary authors follow suit and copy some arbitrary version of the incorrect definitions floating about. All of these incorrect definitions and misuses, no matter how credible the source may otherwise seem, should be completely ignored. It should be apparent to you that technical definitions that make no sense are not credible.

(2) Another major confusion factor is the fact that bolt threads are sometimes generically referred to as "screw" threads in specifications, even though they are actually bolt threads, in an attempt to generically refer to the threads themselves, whether internal or external and regardless of which part they exist in. Words can have more than one definition, and this particular usage of the word "screw" is an attempt to describe helical threads simply in reference to the act of screwing. Using the word "screw" when "screwing" is meant does not cause a bolt, whose threads meet the specification of bolt threads, to be suddenly metamorphosed into a screw. If the threads meet the specification of bolt threads, such that they can accept a nut (regardless of whether you install a nut or not), then the threads themselves would more aptly be called "bolt threads" in the specifications, instead of "screw threads," to dispel confusion, as the nut is no more a screw, by the strict definition, than a bolt is a screw.

(3) Let us get the record corrected with the previously-stated, correct definition, which stands unaffected by several other factors. And let us now, by stating the correct facts, dispel several myths that have no affect upon the above definition.

The extent to which the shank of a fastener is threaded, whether fully or partially, does not affect the above definition in any way. Bolts can come fully or partially threaded, as do screws.

Whether or not a nut is installed does not affect the above definition in any way. Common sense tells you a bolt is not suddenly metamorphosed into a screw each time you extract the nut (if you chose to install a nut instead of using the bolt in a threaded hole, insert, or nutplate); nor is it suddenly transformed into a screw each time you choose to not use the bolt but just let it sit there on a table unused.

Bolts are untapered. Screws are often tapered but can also be untapered.

Screws always cut their own internal threads when initially installed, as there is generally no tool meeting the arbitrary specification of their threads to tap out the internal threads beforehand. Conversely, however, it is possible for a bolt to be self-tapping. The only criterion in regard to the bolt versus screw definition is whether or not the self-tapping fastener, non-cutting threads meet the strict specification of bolt threads, meaning they can be correctly mated with a nut.

The type or size of head on a fastener does not affect the above definition in any way. Bolts come with almost every imaginable head; screws do also, including hexagonal. Likewise, the configuration of the driving (or holding) tool surfaces in the head, whether internal or external surfaces, does not affect the above definition in any way.

The fastener nominal diameter does not affect the above definition in any way. Bolts do not suddenly and mysteriously no longer accept nuts just because they become small, miniature, or micro.

The term "machine screw" is a misnomer. A bolt, clearly having bolt threads, is not suddenly metamorphosed into a screw just because someone arbitrarily misnamed it in a specification, book, organization, or industry.

Whether or not specifications incorrectly or loosely refer to bolt and nut threads as "screw threads," or even erroneously refer to bolts as "screws," does not suddenly transform the bolt into a screw. The inability of the technician who drafted the specification to master or understand language, grammar, measurement systems, coherent, unambiguous, internationally-standard units of measure, correct mathematical expressions, etc., does not mean the coherent engineers are suddenly thrown into an abyss without coherent definitions. Intelligent engineers must be able to sort out the technical facts from among the fiction and typos. Whenever someone has botched definitions, world class organizations such as ISO and IEEE need to step up to the plate and redirect the incoherent, aimless, arbitrary, lower-level entities. All of these incorrect definitions and misuses of the word "screw" should be completely ignored, as there is no need to continue to copy past mistakes and propagate confusion. The previously-stated, correct definition should be used in new specifications, standards, and publications.

*So now you know*!


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## tomb (Oct 9, 2004)

Mine are mounted similar to above. 1/4-20 flathead stainless machine screws, fender washers and nylock nuts. Mounted on 1" thick fiberglass gunwhales, so no backing plates. 9 years and going strong.


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## Stonecat (Feb 6, 2011)

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies.... I really like the back plate idea!


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Shortdrift said:


> *Bolt versus Screw definition*​
> Because various organizations have thoroughly confused everyone regarding this simple definition, the remainder of this article dispels several myths and discusses the full rationale explaining the above, correct definition.... etc. etc.


Thanks for the clarification Shortdrift! It appears I have been totally and completely vindicated! Seaturd and Producer, back to the books with ye.  Tom gets a break because some of dem damn packages do say machine screws (but they are _really _bolts).


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## The Producer (Nov 5, 2009)

lol where in that post did i say wat the defineition was? you two have no 
clue. every home depot store that you buy them at refers to them as
machine screws reguardless of there actual definition. the op asked how to
mount them. with my info he could go to the store and purchase exactly
wat he needed because that is wats printed on the package. with the info
you gave might have been a bit confuseing when you state one thing and
the package says another. congrats on drivein away another person from
posting. pretty soon every post you see will be from the origial members on
the original join date, apr 2004. splittin hairs is the *best* way to do that.

*So now you know! *




The Producer said:


> go to home depot and walk down the hardware isle. there is a multitude of
> screws that use nuts.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

On a lighter note, and not to highjake the thread, but in an attempt tp add to it, let me say that rod holder placment is important as well.

Many make the mistake of spacing out the holders evenly down the side of the boat, when it's better to have them close together (like around 11" apart). 

This not only keeps the rod tips close together while fishing (which makes reading the rods much easier), but also limits the number of places your eyes must go to in order to check for fish.

It's generally better to have the holders towards the rear of the rear deck, but don't put them where you must get stretchd out to get a rod out. Remember your going to be in some waves sometime. Also don't put them where people will want to enter or exit the boat.

note to producer: Thick skin is required. Nobody was trying to pick on you. Guys get carried away sometimes. We all need MORE SUN !!!


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## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

I forgot - I used 1/8" stainless backing plates too. Workdog - I know my screws, bolts and nuts - I buy them them 100# at a time for work... 

The flathead screws will seat flush in the tapered opening giving a more professional looking installation.


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Thanks for the smiley Seaturd. Producer, I thought I was being obvious in poking some fun. Are you _really _going to quit posting because of this? I hope this site doesn't become a humor-free zone. 

Here's why I said what I did in my first post (to get back to the original question). The original poster asked: "..._would it be OK to use a regular metal screw or should I use a flathead bolt and nut_." Some of you posters were using the word "screw" and "machine screw." I wanted to try and make it clear that a screw alone wouldn't be sufficient. Hence the nut and bolt comment. My second comment was gratuitous humor. This comment should have gone without having to say. Sheesh...


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## FishON32 (Jun 26, 2006)

I also used 1/4" aluminum backing plates. I'll add that stainless likes to "gull" up pretty easy especially when using nyloc nuts. Put a dab of never seize on the threads of the bolts in case you ever need to take them off.


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## BlueMax (Dec 3, 2006)

The Producer said:


> go to home depot and walk down the hardware isle. there is a multitude of
> screws that use nuts.


By no means is Home Deport an authority on nuts, bolts or screws and after reading this post neither are most of the repliers. 
People need to lighten up. Some very knowledgeable and intelligent folks are trying to spread accurate information and in return get smart arse replies . I do not understand. And what does the length of time one has been a member have to do with this?
Bolts have threads that can accept a nut. Screws do not. This clarifies descriptions for informational and discusion purposes. I do not see the need to disrespect someone.


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## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

http://euler9.tripod.com/bolt-database/boltdef.html


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## The Producer (Nov 5, 2009)

the print reads machine screw on the package. so how is this incorrect? the
definitions do not matter when they are marketed and sold that way. the
point is not to debate the definition (as everyone on everything does on
here) but to lead the op to the store and to the right package to help make
it easier for him to find. none of the info pertained to the ops question, just
debate what it should be called.


seaturd posted machine screw, workdog corrected him, then my post, then
shortdrift long windily corrected us. nowhere did i state that anyone was
an expert, or the real definition, only how the stores provide them to us is all.



http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


stonecat, in the hardware isle at the depot is the fastener section. the
stainless is in little green packs that are 0.99$ a pack. so for 3 bucks you
should be able to get all the hardware needed for each rod holder. if you
cant find what you need, make sure when you ask someone that you call
them machine screws if you want Phillips or Flathead for screwdriver driven
or hex-head bolts for wrench/socket driven and socket cap bolts for Allen
wrench driven. this is how they are organized, searched and ordered from
there. i too used a back plate and now have second thoughts about the
washers i used on the plate. i originally mounted them with washers and
then tried them without. same result. the nylon ring lock nuts hold them
great. could of saved a buck or two but oh well lol. hope you get them on
there and slay'em.


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## ohiojmj (Apr 16, 2004)

Seaturd has a bolt loose!


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

Spawning walleye, any steelie topic, keeping largemouth, musky releases.

I've seen some stupid arguements on OGF but really guys nuts and bolts?


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## wakina (May 30, 2007)

Seams both opinions are right!

http://www.mcmaster.com/#machine-screws/=bdjvfy


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

How about we declare a truce and talk fishin ! 

COME ON SPRING !!! (and it's sposed to snow here tonight). YUK


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## ErieGoldSportfishing (Feb 5, 2009)

Jim Stedke said:


> How about we declare a truce and talk fishin !
> 
> COME ON SPRING !!! (and it's sposed to snow here tonight). YUK


Man I'll say. Sheesh! An argument over whether a fastener is a bolt or a screw? Next thing you know it will be over boxers or briefs! 

The lakes and ramps can't thaw quick enough!


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## rockytop (Mar 19, 2008)

just one more, i hate bolt heads sticking out. so i got some stainless allen head bolts, and i countersunk for the heads.


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## rizzman (Oct 25, 2007)

Boxers if I'm trolling, briefs if I'm jigging..


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

I hate to do this...but I just can't stop myself.... Rizz, Can you explain the logic behind that ??? And what if you intend to do both???


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## rizzman (Oct 25, 2007)

It's a confidence thing Jim, Also the briefs don't get snagged on all the bolts & screws sticking out all over my boat. On those jig/troll days I go straight for the thong...


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

OH Man... TOO MUCH INFORMATION !!! 

Well on second thought...at least you didn't say nuttin. LOL


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## eyesman_01 (Jan 4, 2007)

If these last four posts didn't lighten the mood, nothing will. I'm still ROFLMFAO.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

Jim Stedke said:


> How about we declare a truce and talk fishin !
> 
> COME ON SPRING !!! (and it's sposed to snow here tonight). YUK


I HOPE IT SNOWS ALL THE WAY TO JUNE There. since we all have been wishing for spring and get SNOW, that should end it and spring will come.

I use the Tite Lock and a backing plate with the allen head Stainless *threaded fasteners* and locknuts.


Watch the use of boxers. If siting forward in the Captain's chair at high throttle and a wave smacks the bow, something else smacks the front edge of the seat hard enough to cross your eyes.


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## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

ohiojmj said:


> Seaturd has a bolt loose!


Yeah but my nuts are shipshape!


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Seaturd said:


> Yeah but my nuts are shipshape!


Too too funny!  Now pardon me while I go wash my eyeballs out with bleach. The last half of this thread describes that which I want to totally erase from my memory.


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## tomb (Oct 9, 2004)

I'm with Workdog.


> On those jig/troll days I go straight for the thong...


 SCARY!


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

To quote a great American, Rodney King:
"Can't we just all learn to get along?"


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## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

Have you considered just using a 16 penny nail and bend it once you get it in. Quick easy and easy to move.


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