# Saugeye For(Certain) NE Ohio Lakes



## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

I've been reading in Central Ohio Forum abt what a tremendous fishery they have in several of their lakes for saugeye!! They seem to thrive in relatively shallow lakes, easily/frequently caught from shore, voracious feeders and grow to good eating size relatively fast. I have read and heard the State is against stocking saugeye in any waters which end up in L Erie(not sure WHY exactly, since they are "hybrids" and-theoretically-hybrids do not reproduce!). We have lots of lakes available to put them in which DO NOT flow to Erie but end up in the Ohio/Mississippi watersheds(ex-Mosquito, Berlin, Milton, West Branch). I think they're in the Ohio R. already so no biggie! Then there's several smaller lakes which do go to Erie(eventually-Wft, Mogadore, Springfield, Walborn) but they have long complex river systems and these rivers could also benefit from them if any get thru the dams). For one thing, a boat would not be needed to have access to these fish, the reports of walleye catches from our lakes seem to me to be dismal at best most of the year(plus boats are usually-with the exception of spring time-needed to access them), and again, who would argue with having another tasty, table fish available to us? I might be all wet with these(or some of these!) observations but wanted to know what others think about this possibility.
ps-If this has been discussed here previously, I guess I've missed it over the past 15 yrs or so, so be nice!


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## laynhardwood (Dec 27, 2009)

The competition for food and suitable habitat is the reason for the odnr not stocking any waters that empty into Erie I believe 


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

laynhardwood said:


> The competition for food and suitable habitat is the reason for the odnr not stocking any waters that empty into Erie I believe
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Walleye cant thrive in the Central/Southern Ohio reservoirs like the Saugeye can. That's why they stock them. They Grow like Walleye, but can handle warm turbid water like Saugers.
It would be a waste of $ and resources to stock the non-reproducing Saugeye in waters where Walleye are already capable of having a self sustaining population.


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## buckzye11 (Jul 16, 2009)

They used to stock Saugeye in Nimisila and the Portage main chain.... i miss them. My Brother caught one out of Nimi around 6 years ago, it was 24", pry one of the last few remaining in there. Heard of people catching them in Turkeyfoot just a few years ago. Id like to see them stocked again(iknow it wont happen though), The Nimi Walleye just arn't as aggressive as the Saugeye were, or the numbers don't seem to be there.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Those saugeye in Nimi were a blast Buckzye. They would nail a piece of worm on a harness. I think my last one was 2005.


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## icebucketjohn (Dec 22, 2005)

I'd like the chance to try for them at Nimmy, East Rez and Turkeyfoot this season.... if we get ice. There might be a few left in those waters and I'd certainly like an opportunity hauling a couple through some auger holes.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

"theoretically-hybrids do not reproduce". That is what the ODNR thought and ultimately found out that some saugeyes can and have reproduced. I don't know if it requires a male saugeye and female walleye or vice/versa, but there was reproduction between the two. The ODNR wants to reduce as much as possible the potential of altering the Erie Walleye gene pool. Any body of water that can have effluent reach Erie is off limits to saugeye stocking. Got this info from one of the biologist at a ODNR meeting.

If you are dead set on fishing for saugeye, Attwood is pretty close, then there is Piedmont, Tappen, Leesville, Hoover and many more. Get hooked up with someone that has fished those lakes and learn the various techniques.

Fishing the inland lakes is quite different than Erie and is an enjoyable change. In my opinion, the saugeye out fights and tastes better than a walleye but the overall fishing in Erie is tough to beat.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

they catch a lot in indian lake cuz there is 100"s of thousands of them stocked each year...


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## sonar (Mar 20, 2005)

I wish,,that Saugeyes were back at Nimi.& W.B.,,I also will comment on Shortdrift's comment,,on the "Re-Cross-Breeding",,in the lakes that have been stocked with the "Hy-bred's",, there is much evidence that does happen ,,not often,,BUT occasionally,,it does happen!!As I've been told,,that a Male,,Saugeye,,will be able to fertilize a female Walleyes egg lay?? I haven't seen it happen,,but I have gotten the results of the occurrence..... 10 or more years after the last stocking,, I catch an 8" saugeye??? At two different lakes... & more than one time too,,I believe,,that's an example of Ma' Nature's ability to PREVAIL an existence!! She will overcome all opposition to carry on life,,There is no force more powerful than,,Nature..... ----->>>>>sonar<<<<<-----


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

There's not "theoretically don't reproduce". They can and do reproduce, just not in high numbers. It's fact.


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## StumpHawg (May 17, 2011)

Mushijobah said:


> There's not "theoretically don't reproduce". They can and do reproduce, just not in high numbers. It's fact.


Correct Mushi:Banane26: Some black and white crappie species cross also but not in high numbers.


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## bassmastermjb (Apr 8, 2004)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think C.J. wants to know why the ODNR doesn't stock more northern Ohio lakes with saugeye that are land locked from Lake Erie.I'll ask the Game Warden the next time he stops in the baitshop ........Mark


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

If they ever made their way into lake Erie, they could drastically change the walleye through crossbreeding if it ever took place. many of these northern lakes are just to close to chance. and there is still a surviving saugeye population at west branch. It is documented, according to a member on the site that I can not remember their name ( maybe Whaler?) that ODNR found cross bred fish in westbranch while doing surveys to determine the walleye population. If you would like to see how drastic and negative the effect of having the saugeye and walleye cross breed just watch what happens in Jurassic Park!


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## Steel Cranium (Aug 22, 2005)

johnboy111711 said:


> If they ever made their way into lake Erie, they could drastically change the walleye through crossbreeding if it ever took place. many of these northern lakes are just to close to chance. and there is still a surviving saugeye population at west branch. It is documented, according to a member on the site that I can not remember their name ( maybe Whaler?) that ODNR found cross bred fish in westbranch while doing surveys to determine the walleye population. If you would like to see how drastic and negative the effect of having the saugeye and walleye cross breed just watch what happens in Jurassic Park!


If the crossbreeding could occur and cause problems, it would have happened long ago. The Maumee had (has?) some sauger present and could mix with lake run walleyes each spring. Ohio's state record sauger is from the Maumee.

West branch (and others in that area of the state) eventually flows into the Ohio river without a chance to make it into Erie. The portage lakes flow into both Erie and the Ohio due to the Ohio canal manipulation/connections.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

bassmastermjb said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but I think C.J. wants to know why the ODNR doesn't stock more northern Ohio lakes with saugeye that are land locked from Lake Erie.I'll ask the Game Warden the next time he stops in the baitshop ........Mark


That was my impression. The 4 lakes C.J. mentioned in particular are in watersheds that do not flow into Lake Erie. Berlin and Milton are both impoundments on the Mahoning River, which flows in to the Beaver River, which flows into the Ohio. West Branch (or, more properly, Michael Kirwan Reservoir) is an impoundment of the west branch of the Mahoning River, which flows into the Mahoning downstream of Milton Dam, then to the Beaver and the Ohio Rivers. Mosquito Creek Reservoir is an impoundment of Mosquito Creek, which flows into the Mahoning River at the city of Niles, then to the Beaver and Ohio Rivers. 

And I know the Ohio River has saugeye because my BIL loves to fish for them when they run up out of the Ohio into the Muskingum. He fishes right below Devols Dam. 

As far as saugeye being more tolerant of warmer, more turbid water than walleye, then they would seem to be custom made for Mosquito. Turbid? "Skeeter's" got that in spades! Milton also has quite a few areas, especially upstream from Pointview ramp, that features wide, shallow flats that go the color of coffee w/cream after even a brief rain. Once the north end of Pymo starts warming up the walleye action really slows down. I won't speak to Berlin since I don't really know the lake that well. And even though the 3 lakes above also feature areas with deeper, clearer water with a harder substrate, I doubt that those would be an impediment to a fish so closely related to the walleye.

And while walleye may attempt to spawn at Mosquito, Milton, Pymatuning, and Berlin as well, I doubt that they're having much success. Otherwise the ODNR (as well as the PFC in the case of Pymo) would not be stocking walleye fry by the millions in these lakes every year.


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## vibe (Jan 12, 2011)

I have caught saugeye at the beach city dam spillway in the past.took them home fillet them and at least once a year id get one saugeye that had eggs in her.and it wasn't a walleye.big difference between sauger saugeye and walleye.

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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

just passing along my thoughts and info. besides, aren't saugeyes for people who can't catch walleye?


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

And while walleye may attempt to spawn at Mosquito said:


> always been a large and successful spawning population at berlin. ODNR used berlin fish to stock lake erie in the early 70's to jump start the lake again. Westbranch also has a sizable spawning population of fish. i would assume other lakes do as well. stocking occurs to add a surplus of fish to allow for a put and take fishery.


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## sonar (Mar 20, 2005)

The spawn,,is cycle that the fish naturally must live out,,it's what they're DNA commands,, & whether they are successful at it or not,, they do go through the motions,, AND,,at that point some,,not many,,are able to get more cross breeds,,swimming around those stocked at one point,,"Saugeye Lakes....... As to WHY?? there is not a more generous stocking of them,,I would guess that answer to be,,FUNDING?? I enjoyed catching them,,at Nimi.,,W.B.& would also like to see a few at the lakes mentioned byC.J.S.,,I think that Phill Hillman may need a call/e-mail?? Heck Charlie,,You know Jim P./Whaler,,ring 'em up!! I'm surprised Whaler hasn't chimed-in on this already.... **Happy Holidays To All** ----->>>>>sonar<<<<<-----


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

johnboy111711 said:


> If they ever made their way into lake Erie, they could drastically change the walleye through crossbreeding if it ever took place. many of these northern lakes are just to close to chance. and there is still a surviving saugeye population at west branch. It is documented, according to a member on the site that I can not remember their name ( maybe Whaler?) that ODNR found cross bred fish in westbranch while doing surveys to determine the walleye population. If you would like to see how drastic and negative the effect of having the saugeye and walleye cross breed just watch what happens in Jurassic Park!


The Jurassic park idea was going through my head the whole time i was reading this thread!

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## Mickey (Oct 22, 2011)

Walborn flows into Deer Creek then into Berlin into Milton eventually into the Ohio River. NOT into Lake Erie.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

sonar said:


> The spawn,,is cycle that the fish naturally must live out,,it's what they're DNA commands,, & whether they are successful at it or not,, they do go through the motions,, AND,,at that point some,,not many,,are able to get more cross breeds,,swimming around those stocked at one point,,"Saugeye Lakes....... As to WHY?? there is not a more generous stocking of them,,I would guess that answer to be,,FUNDING?? I enjoyed catching them,,at Nimi.,,W.B.& would also like to see a few at the lakes mentioned byC.J.S.,,I think that Phill Hillman may need a call/e-mail?? Heck Charlie,,You know Jim P./Whaler,,ring 'em up!! I'm surprised Whaler hasn't chimed-in on this already.... **Happy Holidays To All** ----->>>>>sonar<<<<<-----


He was contacted but so far too busy (probably catching his beloved steelhead) to answer. With the weather and the COE playing yoyo with the levels of our "walleye" lakes, I have to wonder just how "SUCCESSFUL" our walleye spawns have been the past 10 years or so. With very low levels, the sand and gravel, windswept shorelines(with not water on them!), just don't get it done! I think that's the MAIN reason the state collects the eggs, artificially fertilizes them, hatches them, and puts the fry right back in the same lake-with maybe a one in ten thousand chance of survival!!! Vince, you're out there as much as anyone, have the know-how, and study the lake topography. How would you rate our "walleye lakes" in terms of quality and quantity on a scale of one to ten?? (I'd say a not so strong 3-4.) The production of fish per hour invested for an "average" fisherman, is very poor at best! I just think this situation would be alleviated with some saugeye available in a couple of our "local" lakes.


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## sonar (Mar 20, 2005)

As far as ,,the catch ratio/hours spent?? I have to say ,,which day do you want to know about?? The "Day" I FRIED 'EM?? Or the "Day" I couldn't find a bite?? Our lakes,, that we have to fish,,for "eyes"are feasible,,,,Mostly,,& fished on pretty hard,,and still seem to produce a fair amount of keepers,,on a good day... But,,the problem with stocking Saugs.,,is they are SO EASY to figure out ,,just go bass fishing,,& try to get by them,,to get a bass..They must be stocked pretty regularly to keep their numbers going.. Even though,,I have enjoyed Nimi.-W.B. Saugeyes,,Fried,,Grilled,, I MISS their Drive-by,,hits,,they are hard feeding fish!! I would "kick-in" a couple a more bucks a year,,(License Fees)for an aggressive stocking program,,in a few of the "SAFE for Erie" lakes,, I have to think it would be a GOOD THING,,for the fishing industry.... Like right now,,I have been struggling to get 2 keeper eyes,,to take home for me&wife,,I wouldn't be upset to take 2-3 Saugs home for a dinner.... ----->>>>>sonar<<<<<-----


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> Mosquito Creek Reservoir is an impoundment of Mosquito Creek, which flows into the Mahoning River at the city of Niles, then to the Beaver and Ohio Rivers.


Don't forget that Mosquito has the possibility of flowing north to lake Erie during high water periods.


I wouldn't mind seeing saugeyes stocked in the other lakes mentioned by CJ.


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## t.stuller (Feb 25, 2010)

Mickey said:


> Walborn flows into Deer Creek then into Berlin into Milton eventually into the Ohio River. NOT into Lake Erie.


U are correct and they would all be great lakes for sauger/ saugeye stockings, IMO. A few of my relatives and myself have beat this topic for years, there is absolutely no reason why they shouldnt stock these lakes. Berlin, Milton and the Mahoning river all have natural walleye reproduction and could be perfect bodies of water for natural sauger reproduction.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

t.stuller said:


> Berlin, Milton and the Mahoning river all have natural walleye reproduction and could be perfect bodies of water for natural sauger reproduction.


The intent of this thread is saugeye discussion and I would like to keep this conversation abt. "saugeye"-not other "possibilities". Some other thread would be better suited for that. The reasons being that what I know abt saugeye, they can get to be good size, seem to thrive in turbid/shallow bodies of water, easy to catch(shallow, from shore, or deeper), and theoretically(yeah, yeah, I know!) shouldn't be capable of reproduction, let alone mixing with other fish. What I know abt sauger(admittedly, not very much!), they do better in rivers, don't(typically!)grow very big(pretty sure no size limit for this reason-I've seen pictures of limits of them that wouldn't have made nice sized perch!) and CAN easily cross breed with walleye(making "saugeye")-which cannot begin to be controlled as "stocking" would be.I would also bet that the "average Joe" wouldn't know a sauger from a saugeye, from a walleye. I know I'd be uncertain in most cases!! 
And yes, I am aware of the "possible high water situation" where somewhere in the refuge area of Mosquito Res. it could back into the Grand River flowage North to L. Erie so maybe Mosquito should be left out of the conversation also.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

c. j. stone said:


> The intent of this thread is saugeye discussion and I would like to keep this conversation abt. "saugeye"-not other "possibilities". Some other thread would be better suited for that. The reasons being that what I know abt saugeye, they can get to be good size, seem to thrive in turbid/shallow bodies of water, easy to catch(shallow, from shore, or deeper), and theoretically(yeah, yeah, I know!) shouldn't be capable of reproduction, let alone mixing with other fish. What I know abt sauger(admittedly, not very much!), they do better in rivers, don't(typically!)grow very big(pretty sure no size limit for this reason-I've seen pictures of limits of them that wouldn't have made nice sized perch!) and CAN easily cross breed with walleye(making "saugeye")-which cannot begin to be controlled as "stocking" would be.I would also bet that the "average Joe" wouldn't know a sauger from a saugeye, from a walleye. I know I'd be uncertain in most cases!!
> And yes, I am aware of the "possible high water situation" where somewhere in the refuge area of Mosquito Res. it could back into the Grand River flowage North to L. Erie so maybe Mosquito should be left out of the conversation also.


That's a point, but I'd love the opportunity to be educated about saugeye. Back when I was a young buck just learning to fish, I couldn't tell a LM bass from a SM. But then you catch a few, and the differences become apparent. I caught my first sauger from Beaver Creek below Fredericktown. Even though it was my first one I knew right away what it was. Yes, it was shaped like a walleye, but, it was colored like no walleye I'd ever laid eyes (no pun intended) on! 

I had forgotten that Mosquito could flow "backward", but it would take a high water event like you couldn't believe to get Mosquito to back up all the way through the waterfowl refuge into Grand River Wildlife Area. It would be interesting to see if the COE or ODNR has any data on the last time, if ever, it happened. However, since Lake Erie is Ohio's real "walleye factory", I know the powers that be would be loath to jeopardize it in any way. In a way it's too bad because, out of the 4 lakes you mentioned in particular, I think Mosquito might be the best suited for saugeye stocking.

Your prior post also contained a great point, which, if I may humbly beg your pardon, I also made in my prior post. If the natural reproduction of walleye is so successful in the lakes in question, why, then, are there millions of walleye fry stocked in them every year? According to one reply, this is to create a "surplus" of walleye which would constitute a put and take fishery. Let's face facts. *All* inland lake walleye fishing in the state of Ohio is put and take fishing! Just like all inland lake saugeye fishing in the state of Ohio is put and take! And the reason is conditions unsuited to successful walleye spawning, namely fluctuating water levels and excessive turbidity. We're not in the Canadian Shield folks. Too much dirt in the water is death to walleye eggs, as is too low or too high water levels. If we had 2 successful spawns every 10 years, what would our inland walleye fisheries look like?


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Just throwin this out there, But I do beleive a couple lakes in cental ohio no longer see saugeye stockings is because of the way they fluctuate so much,you see LOTS of fish lost in the spillway and down river... If your lakes are fluctuating so much up there,do you think this would also be a problem?


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## t.stuller (Feb 25, 2010)

c. j. stone said:


> I would also bet that the "average Joe" wouldn't know a sauger from a saugeye, from a walleye. I know I'd be uncertain in most cases!!


http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/SpeciesGuideIndex/sauger/tabid/6749/Default.aspx
Not to jack your thread, but obviously neither does who ever did the species guide for odnr....lol Look in the paragraph where it refers to the white marks on lower fins and look at pic.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

t.stuller said:


> http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/SpeciesGuideIndex/sauger/tabid/6749/Default.aspx
> Not to jack your thread, but obviously neither does who ever did the species guide for odnr....lol Look in the paragraph where it refers to the white marks on lower fins and look at pic.


I brought this issue up in the "Walleye or not Walleye thread" in the Northwest forum, (when referencing the DNR's horrible "Walleye" pic). Whoever wrote these species guides (or really whomever chose the photos) needs to be fired (lol)


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Saugeyefisher said:


> Just throwin this out there, But I do beleive a couple lakes in cental ohio no longer see saugeye stockings is because of the way they fluctuate so much,you see LOTS of fish lost in the spillway and down river... If your lakes are fluctuating so much up there,do you think this would also be a problem?


Only system they quit stocking is Delaware/Olentangy, and im relatively certain it was due to he fact that Delaware res is a deep mudhole with basically no habitat for eyes. As long as you have some rocky structure/points/flats some of those eyes should stick around no matter what the water level/conditions.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

acklac7 said:


> Only system they quit stocking is Delaware/Olentangy, and im relatively certain it was due to he fact that Delaware res is a deep mudhole with basically no habitat for eyes. As long as you have some rocky structure/points/flats some of those eyes should stick around no matter what the water level/conditions.


Dillion? Thought that was one as well. could be wrong though. And actually deleware cant be as big a mud hole as buckeye,an has WAY more contour to it...... Dont here of many caught above the dams on griggs or osheay either.. Another lake no longer stocked with them is logan I think? Again could be wrong on this one to..


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Alum seems to of taken a signifigant hit as well, from the above average rain, the lake being drawn down more then usual last yr,due to some work needing done on it...But in normal yrs has proved to hold a good population.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

Saugeyefisher said:


> Alum seems to of taken a signifigant hit as well, "from the above average rain", the lake being drawn down more then usual last yr,due to some work needing done on it...But in normal yrs has proved to hold a good population.


The part of your statement above abt the the above average rain you guys in western and middle parts of the state had are at first baffling-then I remembered watching the Weather Channel(between Rain Dances!) and you got all of it-ALL summer long, fronts from the SW heading NW and just skirting NE Ohio time after time, after time! Most of it didn't even get as far east as Cleveland and the tribs east of this line nearly went dry!! I know our lakes suffered greatly and still have not recovered. All the while, the COE kept the flows going out of NEO lakes to comtinue to supply the Ohio and esp. the lower stretches of the Mississippi where levels were critically low and was impacting commerce! That situation probably did-an will continue-to impact the walleye reproduction in the large NEO inlands.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

c.j stone, Im sorry I was acualy talking about the spring before last(forgot to add that sorry). U know the spring that really never ended that yr, then it rained like crazy into the fall,and just so hapened that was the fall/winter they needed to lower the lake more then normal due to some ramp work... this last summer was dry. but we have gotten some decent rain here recently


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

Two Falls ago I was invited to go out electro shocking young of the year Walleyes at West Branch by Phil Hillman. I had been hounding him for months to establish a size limit on Walleyes there. I told him a lot of people were catching them there and we needed a size limit . During these discussions I also told Phil we had caught some Saugeye there recently. He really didn't believe anything I was telling him until they ran a creel census during the Summer and found that 27 % of the anglers were Walleye fishing there. I told him there was some natural reproduction taking place there and we needed a size limit to protect them. 
We went out that Fall to do the electro Shocking one night and when they brought in the first Walleye about six inches long Hillman said " I'm amazed." I asked him why and he said there is Saugeye in this Walleye. I said I thought Saugeye couldn't reproduce and he said "they can back cross. " If I remember right he said a male Walleye can back cross with a Saugeye. We caught about a half dozen of those small Walleye and two in the 16 to 17 inch range in our boat. There was another boat working the other side of the lake and they also picked up some small ones.
Later he told me that they did as good sampling that night as they had done back when they were stocking the lake. So there are Walleyes in there and some Saugeyes in there and we now have a 15 inch size limit on this lake. I personally think all Ohio lakes should have at least a 15 inch size limit. I also think if they could stock Saugeye in there years ago they could do it again if they wanted to.


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you want to find out what's going on with fish management or wildlife management call 330-644-2293 and speak with Phil Hillman or someone else there in the know. They will be glad to tell you the reasons they do or don't do what we think maybe they should do.


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