# Bobcat hunt ?



## garhtr

https://www.wlwt.com/article/bobcats-returning-to-home-state-of-ohio-in-record-numbers/
82 road kills in 2017 , is it time to hunt or trap them ??
What about a low quota system or lottery hunt ?
82 wasted road killed cats.
I'd pay a few dollars for a shot at a short hunting season or a chance to trap one. I doubt success rate would be good but on a lottery system the state could raise a few bucks with out hurting the population.
Your thoughts ?
Good luck and good hunting


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## Muddy

I think that it’s time. I’ve had several walk under me While bow hunting. I know people who are seeing them almost every week on their property. We were really close to getting a season about 2 years ago until emotion trumped the facts.


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## Bluegillin'

Curious if anyone has called one in when hunting fox or coyotes using a rabbit or other distress call.


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## garhtr

Bluegillin' said:


> Curious if anyone has called one in when hunting fox or coyotes using a rabbit or other distress call.


 I was wondering that also.
My neighbor has a few pics of two different cats on his cams and I've thought about giving it a shot. I'd probably see one if I would put more hours in deer hunting.
Good luck and good hunting !


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## Fish-N-Fool

I thought they did a pilot trapping program; something like 80 permits?
Is that what you referred to being called off Muddy?

I started seeing them in Pike county about 8 years ago when a buddy purchased 90 acres. I've hunted Wildcat Hollow area and south the last few years and I see at least 1 every year. Heck of a lot more coyotes, but the population of bobcats has really grown no doubt. Used to be a big deal and now it is just common. I had one scare the crap out of me in Perry county - he must have made a den in a tree about 50 ft from my tree stand. The stand was up a couple seasons. I got in before daylight and this bobcat must have slipped into the tree base without me knowing as daylight approached. They make this crazy loud screechy growling type sound (I know good description). I had never heard this sound ever. I was relaxed standing with my face on the tree and this thing let out and the hair on my neck stood up! As light broke I could see the bobcat in the crotch of this big sycamore tree. 

I personally have no interest in hunting them and wouldn't shoot one if legal unless they became a nuisance or overpopulated. I do realize I'm likely in the minority. I have heard some guys in areas think they are already hitting the turkeys too hard.


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## Lundy

I can see no reason to kill one.


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## Muddy

It was proposed for November to January 2018 or until 60 cats were harvested. The science was there to support the harvest, and the cats were to be turned over to the DOW to study. The feel good people didn’t like it and it was shot down.


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## garhtr

Muddy said:


> until 60 cats were harvested


 That's a bigger number than I was expecting, I was thinking 12 -18, maybe 20 cats.
Has anyone seen a estimate of cat numbers in Ohio ?
Only thing I ever see is verified sightings and roadkill numbers, surely the Odnr has an estimated # in mind.


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## garhtr

Lundy said:


> I can see no reason to kill one.


Sounds delicious
http://fromfieldtoplate.com/2017/02/16/bobcat-barbacoa/

or


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## M.Magis

We’ve had enough for a limited season for a while now. I get pics of them all the time now, I just watched one walk across the field yesterday at 3 in the afternoon. Unfortunately, we have a lot of bunny huggers that disguise themselves as sportsmen and actively try to get these proposals shot down.


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## Lewis

We have at least 5 on a regular basis at my place here in Guernsey county. They are seen on cam all the time. A mother and 3 kits and the one who got her pregnant...lol


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## Snakecharmer

M.Magis said:


> We’ve had enough for a limited season for a while now. I get pics of them all the time now, I just watched one walk across the field yesterday at 3 in the afternoon. Unfortunately, we have a lot of bunny huggers that disguise themselves as sportsmen and actively try to get these proposals shot down.


I would think bunny huggers would be anti bobcat....maybe just me.


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## Shocker

Just wait till they start populating the city’s and killing the house cats then the state will decide to do something but it’ll be too little too late


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## Shocker

Years ago no one thought coyotes would be an issue in the city’s and suburbs but they are now


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Yea I think you gotta be careful here for awhile longer. If they season them or a lottery, you will still have just as many road kills or even more. Imo, they need to still be protected for awhile longer. It’s not like they do damage like a yote. The female only averages 3 kits a litter with 6 square mile avg range while the males range is 60 miles. They also have a 10 yr life span. Totally different animal here. Let em build up and establish more. In 2017, 500 verified reports with 82 road kills. So they are growing but..


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## Shocker

I disagree I think bobcats are more active hunters I think they like live prey and coyotes are much lazier and will take a road kill over chasing down their food.. obviously coyotes still kill and eat live prey but I believe they are scavenger first hunter second... therefore bobcats would be doing more harm to LIVE small game than coyotes


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Shocker said:


> I disagree I think bobcats are more active hunters I think they like live prey and coyotes are much lazier and will take a road kill over chasing down their food.. obviously coyotes still kill and eat live prey but I believe they are scavenger first hunter second... therefore bobcats would be doing more harm to LIVE small game than coyotes


I don’t think so. There are so many yotes in Ohio that they won’t even try to estimate how many. Up to 12 pups a litter on top of that and they are beginning taught hunting skills at 8-12 weeks. Now that’s a population explosion and again, a totally different animal. Let them establish themselves for a bit. We have all survived this long without harvesting any. It will come.


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## TRIPLE-J

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> I don’t think so. There are so many yotes in Ohio that they won’t even try to estimate how many. Up to 12 pups a litter on top of that and they are beginning taught hunting skills at 8-12 weeks. Now that’s a population explosion and again, a totally different animal. Let them establish themselves for a bit. We have all survived this long without harvesting any. It will come.


very well said


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## matticito

Lundy said:


> I can see no reason to kill one.


Me neither, im glad they're numbers improved. I'd prefer this than being closer to extinction. They're not overrun like coyotes and attacking dogs and people. 

I always love the liberal idiots that believe urban sprawl is why coyotes are so bad. I am a highly against urban sprawl and cutting down of every single treed area for a cookie cutter home or new strip mall. What these people dont understand is coyote litter sizes. For all they love animals and spay and neuter for population control, they cant grasp that.


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## PapawSmith

Shocker said:


> I disagree I think bobcats are more active hunters I think they like live prey and coyotes are much lazier and will take a road kill over chasing down their food.. obviously coyotes still kill and eat live prey but I believe they are scavenger first hunter second... therefore bobcats would be doing more harm to LIVE small game than coyotes


The State estimated in 2014 that coyotes killed about 80% of Whitetail Fawns statewide, what do you suppose that number is now? Coyotes are far from lazy eaters and, while they will certainly scavenge, they are definitely predators first, very efficient and effective predators.


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## Shocker

PapawSmith said:


> The State estimated in 2014 that coyotes killed about 80% of Whitetail Fawns statewide, what do you suppose that number is now? Coyotes are far from lazy eaters and, while they will certainly scavenge, they are definitely predators first, very efficient and effective predators.


Either way bobcat is one more predator.. I enjoy my predator hunting and trapping but I enjoy hunting what they eat much more so I’m totally against introducing more protected predators


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## Shocker

I would imagine the state makes more money off turkey and deer tags than fur bearers permits so why would they want to protect more predators that eat their profits


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## M.Magis

PapawSmith said:


> The State estimated in 2014 that coyotes killed about 80% of Whitetail Fawns statewide, what do you suppose that number is now? Coyotes are far from lazy eaters and, while they will certainly scavenge, they are definitely predators first, very efficient and effective predators.


I'm absolutely certain either you're remembering something incorrectly, or someone published ridiculously inaccurate numbers. Coyotes are a problem, but they're not killing anywhere close to 80% of the yearly statewide fawn crop.


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## Shocker

Where I hunt it’s rare to not see twin fawns with 95% of foes during early deer season which is past the time that fawns are at most risk of coyotes getting them


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## Snakecharmer

PapawSmith said:


> *The State estimated in 2014 that coyotes killed about 80% of Whitetail Fawns statewide,* what do you suppose that number is now? Coyotes are far from lazy eaters and, while they will certainly scavenge, they are definitely predators first, very efficient and effective predators.


That seems awfully high, any source for that stat?


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## bobk

PapawSmith said:


> The State estimated in 2014 that coyotes killed about 80% of Whitetail Fawns statewide, what do you suppose that number is now? Coyotes are far from lazy eaters and, while they will certainly scavenge, they are definitely predators first, very efficient and effective predators.


Do you have the article on those numbers? Would like to read how they conducted the survey.


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## Shocker

I’d like to know how many fawns equal 80% and compare that to the number of deer tagged in Ohio by hunters... then a number of deer that get hit by vehicles in a year and also the amount of deer that die from natural causes... in my head I could only imagine since that study was done in 2014 that now in 2020 the whitetail should be on the protected list because their numbers would have to be so low... however 2019-2020 deer season was a very successful one


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## STRONGPERSUADER

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dispatch.com/article/20140309/NEWS/303099829?template=ampart

I think he’s remembering incorrectly but basically true none the less, just not in Ohio. He’s also right right in the yote being very efficient hunters. They’ve documented two dogs taking down healthy 2 yr old elk many times in Yellowstone before they reintroduced wolves. Lazy? He’ll probably one of the most relentless animal in Ohio let alone the country. What some of you fellas are trying to do here is excuse the yote all of a sudden to try an justify an unjust bobcat season. All of a sudden now yotes don’t do much damage to the deer herd? 
These bobcat were wiped out in Ohio by the mid 1800’s. It took them 100 yrs to even start to populate the state again. With probably, arguably, maybe 600 in the state today. Do you even realize what an accomplishment that is for this animal to make that come back in this day and age, especially with the lack of habitat it had pre 1900? It’s just about respect for the animal to me. Give it room to breath for a lil while longer.


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## Shocker

What about reintroducing pheasants before reintroducing the predators? Guess there’s no respect for the pheasant?


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Well the state have been stocking 1000’s of birds for many years now. But it’s hard to respect a bird that will hardly fly, skinny as hell, and raised like chickens. But fun to hunt over dogs. But you’re still comparing apples to oranges. You can’t blame the lack of wild birds on anything but your neighbor.. lack of habitat.


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## Shocker

Obviously neither of us will agree with the other so pointless to argue.. sound like we enjoy different kinds of animals... what good will bobcats bring to Ohio?


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## Shocker

I’m not defending coyotes either I don’t want either of them I think man is predator enough for game animals


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Not arguing with ya but we will agree to disagree. Just another established, once near to extinct, animal that we can eventually hunt again. It will happen. When I first started hunting turkey in the early 80’s only a few hundred birds were killed annually. Now there are 165000 birds in the state. I’m just for a good chance for them to establish themselves is all. I would enjoy a hunt also but it should be hunting only without trapping for a few years after it opens to see what kind of effect it has. We’re in the same boat, we just don’t agree with the timing.


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## Snakecharmer

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dispatch.com/article/20140309/NEWS/303099829?template=ampart
> 
> I think he’s remembering incorrectly but basically true none the less, just not in Ohio. He’s also right right in the yote being very efficient hunters. They’ve documented two dogs taking down healthy 2 yr old elk many times in Yellowstone before they reintroduced wolves. Lazy? He’ll probably one of the most relentless animal in Ohio let alone the country. What some of you fellas are trying to do here is excuse the yote all of a sudden to try an justify an unjust bobcat season. All of a sudden now yotes don’t do much damage to the deer herd?
> These bobcat were wiped out in Ohio by the mid 1800’s. It took them 100 yrs to even start to populate the state again. With probably, arguably, maybe 600 in the state today. Do you even realize what an accomplishment that is for this animal to make that come back in this day and age, especially with the lack of habitat it had pre 1900? It’s just about respect for the animal to me. Give it room to breath for a lil while longer.


They is a big difference between coyotes killing 80% of all fawns OR for all fawns that died, 80% were attributed to coyotes killing them.


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## Karl Crist

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dispatch.com/article/20140309/NEWS/303099829?template=ampart
> 
> I think he’s remembering incorrectly but basically true none the less, just not in Ohio. He’s also right right in the yote being very efficient hunters. They’ve documented two dogs taking down healthy 2 yr old elk many times in Yellowstone before they reintroduced wolves. Lazy? He’ll probably one of the most relentless animal in Ohio let alone the country. What some of you fellas are trying to do here is excuse the yote all of a sudden to try an justify an unjust bobcat season. All of a sudden now yotes don’t do much damage to the deer herd?
> These bobcat were wiped out in Ohio by the mid 1800’s. It took them 100 yrs to even start to populate the state again. With probably, arguably, maybe 600 in the state today. Do you even realize what an accomplishment that is for this animal to make that come back in this day and age, especially with the lack of habitat it had pre 1900? It’s just about respect for the animal to me. Give it room to breath for a lil while longer.


I couldn’t agree more strongpersuader. I’ve lived and hunted and fished in Ohio my entire life. I’m 51 and I’ve seen 1 bobcat.


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## Shocker

I’ve never seen one and I’m ok with that.. wish I’ve never seen a coyote than the way it is now


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## STRONGPERSUADER

I didn’t think you were defending them. I actually just started getting into coyote hunting last summer but more so this winter. I’m all about predator hunting.


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## Muddy

Cat’s are extremely efficient predators. Cats and coyotes both prey on deer to an extent, that has been proven over and over. The higher the deer herd, the more likely that cat’s utilize deer as a food source. There’s a ton of research on the subject.


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Muddy said:


> Cat’s are extremely efficient predators. Cats and coyotes both prey on deer to an extent, that has been proven over and over. The higher the deer herd, the more likely that cat’s utilize deer as a food source. There’s a ton of research on the subject.


Hell cats are probably more efficient hunters/killers than coyotes. But you have take in consideration the numbers of both. Yotes are doing way more damage imo. For the time being anyway. Another big difference here is yotes kill way more livestock for the time being also.


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## Lundy

Shocker said:


> What about reintroducing pheasants before reintroducing the predators? Guess there’s no respect for the pheasant?


So you are under the belief that the ODNR is introducing bobcats to Ohio?


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## Shocker

In the manor of protecting them and not allowing anyone to kill them yes


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## Shocker

If people were trapping/killing them as they were trying to come back then their probably wouldn’t be many at all in Ohio so the odnr making it illegal to kill them is most definitely a prime factor in them becoming populated in ohio


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## Shocker

If you think about it the dnr controls every animal in the state by either protecting them, making season and bag limits for them, or making them open season all year long with no limits.. depending on their value and population they fall into one of those categories which very much helps control the population of each animal whether it be controlling them from being over populated or controlling them from being over hunted/killed


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## 9Left

Shocker said:


> If you think about it the dnr controls every animal in the state by either protecting them, making season and bag limits for them, or making them open season all year long with no limits.. depending on their value and population they fall into one of those categories which very much helps control the population of each animal whether it be controlling them from being over populated or controlling them from being over hunted/killed


That's true to some degree… But I would think that the price of a hide is what really controls animals such as beavers, Raccoons, mink, muskrat etc...


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## Shocker

I believe if **** didn’t have a season people would shoot them every chance they had and leave them lay just like a ground hog meaning the price of the hide would have nothing to do with it 


9Left said:


> That's true to some degree… But I would think that the price of a hide is what really controls animals such as beavers, Raccoons, mink, muskrat etc...


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## Shocker

Also I did mention in my post that you quoted that the animals value also plays a part in how the dnr decides bag limits and seasons along with their population


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## $diesel$

Got no dog in this fight, but i don't shoot anything i don't eat, with the exception of coyotes.


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## Shocker

What about ground hogs?


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## bustedrod

ground hog tastes like roast beast


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## Hatchetman

Shocker said:


> What about reintroducing pheasants before reintroducing the predators? Guess there’s no respect for the pheasant?


Why do you keep using the phrase "reintroducing" ? B-cats were here and have made a come back on their own, the state is merely protecting them from being nearly eradicated again. Like SP says, leave em alone for a couple years and then open a limited hunting/trapping season to try and control the numbers a little bit, no big rush....


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## Hatchetman

Shocker said:


> What about ground hogs?



Seem's like you like to troll....


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## garhtr

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20180312/bobcat


Hatchetman said:


> to try and control the numbers


 I can't find out what the numbers are.
I've read several articles that say biologists(which we pay probably well and are trained to know) think there are enough # for a limited hunt/trap but instead the Odnr has decided to listen to the emotions of a group that probably knows less than I do.(not much)
Hire biologist and listen to what they think is good for bobcats. If we have a resource that can be used without harming that resource use it if not wait but "the science is in" Imo
Good luck and good hunting


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## Shocker

Can’t make everyone happy so I guess please the majority and then you don’t have to listen to as many people complain


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## garhtr

Shocker said:


> Can’t make everyone happy so I guess please the majority and then you don’t have to listen to as many people complain


 Listen to the people that we pay to have the information not a squeaky wheel 
Good luck


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## Muddy

There’s way more cats out there than the “documented” sighting numbers indicate. I don’t know anyone who has called in their sightings or photos to the DNR, including myself. There are dozens of sightings and photos among my group of friends across multiple counties. One of my neighbors has a trail cam picture from a piece of ground in a county with no “documented” sightings. There are enough cats out there to support a season, and the ODNR knows it. The problem is that the ODNR is not controlled by people who make sound biological decisions based on science alone. Social and emotional factors often outweigh the science on the decisions made by the ODNR. It’s a political organization after all.


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## Shortdrift

Wish we had more of them here in the Medina City limits to cull the deer herd which is out of control.


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## TRIPLE-J

bobcats are more of a small game predator and have no real interest in deer other than a sick or wounded animal, there diets consist mostly of rodents, rabbits, birds, and reptiles...


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## garhtr

Shortdrift said:


> Wish we had more of them here in the Medina City limits to cull the deer herd which is out of control.


I have a feeling the cats are not too sociable-- I'll send you some coyotes 
Is there room for a limited bow hunt ?
Good luck !


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## M.Magis

TRIPLE-J said:


> bobcats are more of a small game predator and have no real interest in deer other than a sick or wounded animal, there diets consist mostly of rodents, rabbits, birds, and reptiles...


You're right, their main diet isn't deer. But they will attack healthy adult deer on occasion, and they certainly prey on fawns.


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## fastwater

Muddy said:


> There’s way more cats out there than the “documented” sighting numbers indicate. I don’t know anyone who has called in their sightings or photos to the DNR, including myself. There are dozens of sightings and photos among my group of friends across multiple counties. One of my neighbors has a trail cam picture from a piece of ground in a county with no “documented” sightings. There are enough cats out there to support a season, and the ODNR knows it. *The problem is that the ODNR is not controlled by people who make sound biological decisions based on science alone. Social and emotional factors often outweigh the science on the decisions made by the ODNR. It’s a political organization after all.*


Having gone to many ODNR meetings over the years, I have found there is a lot of truth to what you say Muddy.
Have been in some heated discussions with ODNR brass over the insane bag limits on deer in years past.
Was told that there are three major influences(besides deer herd size...which is surely not estimated fairly) in determining deer bag limits:
Insurance companies 
Farmers
Hunters
Was also told by the same individual with a grin on his face that "can't make all three happy and he figured as long as one or two of those three were unhappy and screaming, he must be doing his job right".

On the topic of coyote, was told for many years(latest being about 4yrs ago)that ODNR did not feel coyote were overpopulating and that they weren't adversely affecting other forms of wildlife.
I left those meetings well convinced that if coyote were causing the all powerful insurance companies $, there would not only be open season on them, but a substantial bounty as well.

Again,IMO, politics does play a huge part in a lot of the decisions made by ODNR.



garhtr said:


> Listen to the people that we pay to have the information not a squeaky wheel
> Good luck


Sure wish I felt like you and it was that simple.
Ask the folks down in Fla. about automatically taking DNR's 'word for it' after their DNR did their best to convince everyone there wasn't a python problem.
Here, the same example would be the coyote issue.
The 'squeaky wheel'...or those avid hunters spending a lot of time in the woods, some actually living in the woods that were complaining to ODNR about the yote explosion long ago were told there wasn't an issue just like the people in Fla. were told there was no Python problem.
Not always, but sometimes the 'squeaky wheel' is worth listening to.

Bobcats...due to just the numbers of people I know that are now catching them on their trail cams on a regular basis, I also believe there is more of a population of them than what we may think.
Have a couple three guys from Hocking, Vinton and Perry Counties that send pics regularly. Have also seen them here at the house as well as one on Clearcreek Rd late at night while driving through the park area. All this within the last 4-5 yrs.

Do I think we should have a season on them now?
Maybe the better question would be...
...'are there certain parts of the state that should have a season on them?'
My answer to that would be most likely it would be time to start considering having a season on them in certain areas before they get out of hand.
But obviously, that's going to take ODNR assessing the bobcat population in different parts of the state which IMO, is going to be much more difficult and costly time wise than assessing the deer herd. And that equates to a lot more $ cost wise for ODNR and I personally don't look for that study to happen anywhere regardless if needed or not.


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## garhtr

fastwater said:


> But obviously, that's going to take ODNR assessing the bobcat population in different parts of the state


 That's already been done, Odnr was set to go with a 60 cat quota but backed off under pressure from outside
https://www.dispatch.com/news/20180312/bobcat-population-in-ohio-could-be-thinned-by-trapping, probably from individuals whom have never purchased a hunting or trapping license.
If we can't trust our biologist why are we paying them.


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## fastwater

garhtr said:


> That's already been done, Odnr was set to go with a 60 cat quota but backed off under pressure from outside
> https://www.dispatch.com/news/20180312/bobcat-population-in-ohio-could-be-thinned-by-trapping, probably from individuals whom have never purchased a hunting or trapping license.
> *If we can't trust our biologist why are we paying them.*


That's a good question...and I see your point.
The fact that ODNR has already done the assessment...and apparently that assessment deemed fit to have a limited season on them, then backed off due to outside pressure shows that the biologist aren't free to do what they deem necessary...and what we pay them to do because of 'outside' influence....or possibly political reasons.

Again, regardless of 'outside influence', for the sake of wildlife versus predator in general, I just hope ODNR does not repeat the process for the bobcat like they did with coyote waiting until there's a much bigger problem.


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## garhtr

fastwater said:


> biologistaren't free to do what they deem necessary..


 Totally agree, they get the science right but politics from higher ups often gets in the way.
We see the same thing with deer management Imo.
It's likely I'll never tag a bobcat even if legal but if the resource is available I'm all for "wise"use.
Good luck and good hunting !


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## Hatchetman

Muddy said:


> There’s way more cats out there than the “documented” sighting numbers indicate. I don’t know anyone who has called in their sightings or photos to the DNR, including myself. There are dozens of sightings and photos among my group of friends across multiple counties. One of my neighbors has a trail cam picture from a piece of ground in a county with no “documented” sightings. There are enough cats out there to support a season, and the ODNR knows it. The problem is that the ODNR is not controlled by people who make sound biological decisions based on science alone. Social and emotional factors often outweigh the science on the decisions made by the ODNR. It’s a political organization after all.


Not slamming you Muddy cause I do like most of your posts, but why won't you and your friends report any sightings to the DNR ? You even say your friend has pics of them in an area that the DNR says they they have no documented sightings. Don't you think it might help get some sort of a season if you guys reported at least some of your sightings? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


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## Snakecharmer

Shortdrift said:


> Wish we had more of them here in the Medina City limits to cull the deer herd which is out of control.


My son in Brecksville would agree with you, Ron. At his neighbors house tonight. My son's yard was torn up from Bucks fighting. See two of them standing in the middle of the photo.


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## Muddy

Hatchetman said:


> Not slamming you Muddy cause I do like most of your posts, but why won't you and your friends report any sightings to the DNR ? You even say your friend has pics of them in an area that the DNR says they they have no documented sightings. Don't you think it might help get some sort of a season if you guys reported at least some of your sightings? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


I understand how that might not make sense to you. I’ve been turned off by some of my experiences. It’s truly unfortunate.


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## fastwater

Snakecharmer said:


> My son in Brecksville would agree with you, Ron. At his neighbors house tonight. My son's yard was torn up from Bucks fighting. See two of them standing in the middle of the photo.
> View attachment 342751


I'd bet most everything I own that with the exception of the one buck you pointed out in the derailer that the rest of those deer, including the two sparing(most likely for dominance) are does.


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## 9Left

fastwater said:


> I'd bet most everything I own that with the exception of the one buck you pointed out in the derailer that the rest of those deer, including the two sparing(most likely for dominance) are does.


Yep...I agree with fastwater… Most does spar that way I've never really seen bucks do that before


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Yea even the young antlerless bucks will spar/learn to fight or play around butting heads like all male horned animals. The does literally fight like girls. but I sure wouldn’t wanna fight one.


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## Burkcarp1

Shocker said:


> Where I hunt it’s rare to not see twin fawns with 95% of foes during early deer season which is past the time that fawns are at most risk of coyotes getting them


Where I hunt it’s very rare to see a doe with twins. Early October last year I saw 6 mature does one morning together and there was only one yearling with them. We have a lot of coyotes and bobcats on the property.


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## Muddy

I see very few does with twins on many properties now. I’m talking wild deer, not city deer.


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## Muddy

I run 6 cameras year round on my property to monitor what’s going on with the deer. I’ve noticed over the last 4-5 years that many does end up with 1 yearling by the fall, and that yearling is usually a button buck. The button bucks are a little larger, and a little stronger than the yearling does. It’s just enough to make a difference of survivability in relationship to predators. I now have a 1:1 buck to doe ratio.


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## Shocker

You guys must have a bigger issue than I because does almost always have twins here in northwest Ohio... that’s why I want less predators because I’d hate to see the day where I’m not seeing twins with the does like you guys are experiencing


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## Shocker

So I’d be happy to never see bobcats reach northwest Ohio


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## Lewis

Here are a couple from my place in Guernsey county,
https://youtu.be/uGEZ02cRacA


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## garhtr

This was the proposed trapping area.
Obviously no hunting of cats which is something I'd be more interested in.
I'm sure success rates would be extremely low on a hunt but calling one in would certainly be a thrill .
I'm certain there are cats on my property from time to time as my neighbor gets pics on occasion and I may give it a try (unarmed of course) just to see if it's possible.
Hope the Dnr makes the correct decision-- what ever that is.
Good luck and good hunting


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## Lewis

From the ODNR website.....
Bobcats generally lie in wait for their prey, pouncing when an animal comes near. Prey pursuit rarely extends more than 60 feet. Bobcats are carnivores and will consume a wide variety of insects, reptiles, amphibians, fish, birds, and mammals. Rabbits and, in northern latitudes, white-tailed deer are important components of the bobcat's diet. 

I see another whitetail predator along with the coyote. I hope the bobcats don't get out of control too.


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## bustedrod

jeezz guys if it wasnt for the bob cats i wouldnt have all the fun i had in high school taking girls down to rouges hollow at cry baby bridge and stop on the bridge in the dark and listen to the bob cats cry, tell em ghost stories hahahahh good times now i have seen bob cats around for 40 yrs and so far they havent been a problem, the coyotes a different story, they are a problem , along with the turkey. those things have taken over the woods.


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## Snakecharmer

9Left said:


> Yep...I agree with fastwater… Most does spar that way I've never really seen bucks do that before


Now you have....


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Snakecharmer said:


> Now you have....


Those aren’t bucks. Those are he she deer. You can tell by the way they are fighting.  All joking aside I’ve seen does with antlers. Only twice but I have.


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## Snakecharmer

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> Those aren’t bucks. Those are he she deer. You can tell by the way they are fighting.  All joking aside I’ve seen does with antlers. Only twice but I have.


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Haha I believed it the first time. Having at it that’s for sure.


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## $diesel$

Snakecharmer said:


> Now you have....


Never, ever seen 2 bucks doing that. Usually their trying to kill each other.
Those 2 must be sissy's, if ya know what i mean.........LOL


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## $diesel$

Snakecharmer said:


>


Harumph!! Just like humans, i guess. Seems like there are more sissy's around every day.
What ever happened to manly males?
After reading you,alls posts on here, it's comforting to see that you guy are manly men at least......hahahahaha.


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## M.Magis

Bucks fight with their feet while they're in velvet. Pretty common to see in summer bean fields.


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## fastwater

^^^Yup.
They try and protect the velvet of their horns best they can.
The velvet is somewhat like a 'skin' that's protecting the horn from bleeding as its developing.


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Makes perfect sense.


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## DHower08

The only thing I like about predators is they will kill and eat cats. Other than that if you want to see wild bird and rabbit populations you need to kill every predator you get a shot at. I know guys that regularly see bobcats. Some areas can absolutely support a season


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## buckeyebowman

fastwater said:


> I'd bet most everything I own that with the exception of the one buck you pointed out in the derailer that the rest of those deer, including the two sparing(most likely for dominance) are does.


A gang of deer that large looks like two extended families of does. Other than around the rut, bucks and does don't hang around together! 



STRONGPERSUADER said:


> Yea even the young antlerless bucks will spar/learn to fight or play around butting heads like all male horned animals. The does literally fight like girls. but I sure wouldn’t wanna fight one.


I once saw a clip of a guy at some deer farm or whatever. He jumps the fence and starts messing with this big doe. I guess he was drunk. Well, she rears up on her hind legs and starts swatting! She messed that dude up! She caught him a good one right on top of the head and staggered him! He was able to get to the fence and haul himself back over! Good thing too, or she would have stomped him into toe jam! 



Snakecharmer said:


>


Makes sense to me. They try to spar with antlers, but they're still in velvet.


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## Jim white

Muddy said:


> I see very few does with twins on many properties now. I’m talking wild deer, not city deer.


I **** hunted when I was younger back in the mid to late 70's an in to the 80's. Dont see that much anymore. yes the dogs would every know an then get on a bobcat an yes they have one hell of a scream make chills run up here back. Guys around my area have been catching them for years in traps. Ohio DNR should have had a trapping season from Interstate 70 South to Marietta west to the Muskingum River for years now. But like some of you have said ODNR can only do so much politicians are the ones that run this state imho. Just saying


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## Jim white




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## Jim white

That was right before deer season. Last year. Been like that for years


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## buckeyebowman

Jim white said:


> I **** hunted when I was younger back in the mid to late 70's an in to the 80's. Dont see that much anymore. yes the dogs would every know an then get on a bobcat an yes they have one hell of a scream make chills run up here back. Guys around my area have been catching them for years in traps. Ohio DNR should have had a trapping season from Interstate 70 South to Marietta west to the Muskingum River for years now. But like some of you have said ODNR can only do so much politicians are the ones that run this state imho. Just saying


Oddly enough, my BIL has a hunting cabin bordering a private farm about 8-9 miles North of Marietta. It's about a half mile West of the Muskingum. He has cameras out, and has NEVER got a pic of a Bobcat! I have to assume that they are there. We know that there are coyotes all over the place, and he has very few pics of them as well! 

If the ODNR has data that supports a limited trapping or hunting season for Bobcat, they should be allowed to proceed. Doesn't mean everybody in the state is going to jump in on it! My BIL lived in Oklahoma for a while. They had an open season on Bobcat, and he had one come upon him while he was out. Had the scope on it, and decided to let it walk! It was the first one he'd ever seen, and said it was so cool looking that he just couldn't shoot it!


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## Jim white

I've done that twice myself in the last 13 years I've lived out here around Unionville BuckeyeBowman. im just saying Bobcats have been around this part of the state for years an yes there is more than people think. It's very hard to see one with out a trail camera. A Bobcats home range is like 25 square miles or something like that. Seems to me I read that in a wild Ohio magazine a few years back


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## Jim white

I called the local odor about one dead on the side of the road about 6 miles north of Beverly about 10 years ago. He came an got it an the state had it mounted for displays.


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## bobk

Nice kitty.


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## STRONGPERSUADER

bobk said:


> View attachment 343733
> Nice kitty.


Man that thing is pissssssed off.


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## Fish-N-Fool

Funny, but I saw one in Clark county 6 years ago. Luckily I was not alone so it was not just me. However, I have never heard of people seeing them or any trail cam pics in the area. I have not gone out of my way to share seeing one knowing most would be skeptical. 

My wife showed me last night when I got home from work how on the "next door" neighborhood app we have a mountain lion running the area She knows well enough not to believe that. Looks like we have a verified bobcat in the area seen by a handful and photographed 2X. The original poster had a photo of the "mountain lion" walking along a downed tree in her back yard. It was pointed out to her it was an adult bobcat by many and a second pic emerged with a handful of others in the area confirming sightings. 

No surprise...this area of clark county has a lot of cover and a woods that runs several solid miles northeast with no break (plenty of houses mixed in, but all woods). This was the area turkeys were reintroduced into the county for that reason. The one I saw 6 years ago was on a 22 acre parcel right in the middle of that block of cover. Tons of turkey in the area (even had a jake in my yard this spring) so a success story on the turkeys.


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## $diesel$

Unfortunately, i have never seen one. I would like to see one up close and personnal, but not TOO close.
I would not shoot one as i don't shoot what i don't eat. My only eception to that rule is the coyote.


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## M.Magis

Bobcat meat is perfectly edible. Many people prefer it to more popular wild game animals.


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## Fish-N-Fool

I've eaten all kinds of exotics and wild game animals including bobcat. Bobcat was surprisingly tasty and very much like pork. If you like pork, you'd enjoy bobcat.


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## jackal_727

Agreed. Bobcat, and mountain lion for that matter, is basically lean white pork.


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## berkshirepresident

Lewis said:


> From the ODNR website.....
> Rabbits and, in northern latitudes, white-tailed deer are important components of the bobcat's diet.


I'd like to point out that this does NOT say or imply that the bobcat actually killed the deer. Scavenging is more likely.
This was likely cut and pasted by someone at ODNR b/c in Ohio, no one ever refers to "northern latitudes".
I find some of these comments "interesting"....b/c I'm not sure everyone realizes how small these animals are. They had a breeding pair at the Natural History Museum the last time I was there and even the males are small. There are NOT much of a threat to a white tail....at least those that can walk well.
I see no sport in shooting or killing this animal....and I have no idea why one would eat bobcat or mountain lion.....unless they live near a Chinese or Korean restaurant.


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## Shocker

Would you agree that bobcat will and do kill rabbit and turkey?


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## fastwater

berkshirepresident said:


> I'd like to point out that this does NOT say or imply that the bobcat actually killed the deer. Scavenging is more likely.
> This was likely cut and pasted by someone at ODNR b/c in Ohio, no one ever refers to "northern latitudes".
> I find some of these comments "interesting"....b/c I'm not sure everyone realizes how small these animals are. They had a breeding pair at the Natural History Museum the last time I was there and even the males are small. There are NOT much of a threat to a white tail....at least those that can walk well.
> I see no sport in shooting or killing this animal....and I have no idea why one would eat bobcat or mountain lion.....unless they live near a Chinese or Korean restaurant.


Here's only a couple reads of many easily available that include the diets of a bobcat.
Notice that though the mainstay of their diet is not listed as deer, deer ARE listed as part of there diet and they will prey on deer.

https://forum.americanexpedition.us/bobcat-facts-information-and-photos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobcat

Note that they really like rabbit,birds and small rodents as part of there diet. 
But those same animals is the mainstay of the other major predator around these parts as well...the coyote. And I don't think anybody that spends much time at all affield doesn't realize that we have an out of control yote situation that again, also preys on most of the same things bobcats prey on.
Please don't get me wrong...at this point, I am not full out promoting an open season on bobcats, but coupled with the other animal of prey in these parts, the coyote(which at one time not so long ago, outdoorsman were trying to be convinced didn't/hadn't affected the whitetail population), I surely hope the bobcat population gets monitored and the same mistakes that were made with the yote are not made with the bobcat.

As far as bobcats being little and not being able to kill a deer...I've got a rather unique story I could tell of a pet bobcat almost killing a huge, very muscular blue pit bull an old acquaintance of mine owned. And if the bobcat hadn't been on a chain, more than likely would have succeeded.

One thing I do agree with you on...I'm gonna have to be pretty hungry before I'd ever knowingly eat one.


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## Shocker

I would pick bobcat over coyote any day of the week in a fight... ever heard the saying it’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog??? I know a bobcat isn’t a dog but you get the point... even though smaller in size I’d say a bobcat is a much more ferocious animal... anyone who hates coyotes and wants them gone is not thinking things through by trying to protect another predator that can cause the exact same damage on prey... you’re only promoting one more fighter that’s not fighting in your corner


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## Shocker

That being said if I could I would replace every coyote with a bobcat, I probably would be all for that but what I’m not for is adding another predator to walk the same dirt as coyotes..


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## fastwater

Would have to agree with you on the bobcat versus dog scenario.
The pit I referred to was huge in stature for a pit,nothing but solid muscle and could be very nasty.

That dog couldn't wait to get a chance at that chained up bobcat.
Once he got ahold of it...he just couldn't turn it loose fast enough.

Saw the dog about a week afterwards. Forget how many stitches he ended up with throughout his body but he was literally bandaged from head to toe.


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## M.Magis

berkshirepresident said:


> I'd like to point out that this does NOT say or imply that the bobcat actually killed the deer. Scavenging is more likely.
> This was likely cut and pasted by someone at ODNR b/c in Ohio, no one ever refers to "northern latitudes".
> I find some of these comments "interesting"....b/c I'm not sure everyone realizes how small these animals are. They had a breeding pair at the Natural History Museum the last time I was there and even the males are small. There are NOT much of a threat to a white tail....at least those that can walk well.
> I see no sport in shooting or killing this animal....and I have no idea why one would eat bobcat or mountain lion.....unless they live near a Chinese or Korean restaurant.


You’re entitled to your opinion. And we’re entitled to let you know, you sound like a fool with little to no understanding of wildlife.


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## berkshirepresident

M.Magis said:


> You’re entitled to your opinion. And we’re entitled to let you know, you sound like a fool with little to no understanding of wildlife.


So....everyone who disagrees with your rather lame desire to kill bobcats is a fool?
I obviously think differently.
I also challenge you to PROVE (not hypothesize or theorize) that a minor Bobcat population has any MATERIAL effect on whitetail numbers.
And while you're at it, stay classy.


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## Shocker




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## Shocker

I’m sure there haven’t been any studies in Ohio because the population isn’t large enough YET but before you know it the bobcat population can and will be uncontrollable just like coyotes... that’s the reason why they need to have a controlled season in certain areas to prevent the problem we have with coyotes


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## mashunter18

Hatchetman said:


> Not slamming you Muddy cause I do like most of your posts, but why won't you and your friends report any sightings to the DNR ? You even say your friend has pics of them in an area that the DNR says they they have no documented sightings. Don't you think it might help get some sort of a season if you guys reported at least some of your sightings? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.



We don't report them either, and didn't report the black bear we had in Belmont county. All 4 guys hunting Belmont during 2 days of deer gun season saw them atleast once. Guess it goes with the birdwatcher mentality. Don't want a bunch of people poking around the place.

I saw my first bobcat 12-15 years ago, ran out from the woods on deer gun season opener. They should have a season on them. Facebook ohio state trappers group, there's multiple guys that have released over 5 every year. If anything close gray fox, they tried to do a gray fox study a few years ago and couldn't even catch enough to tag and collar.


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## berkshirepresident

Shocker said:


> View attachment 344627


I appreciate you posting that, Shocker. 
But I'd like to point out that even your post mentions that deer are not a primary or important food source of bobcats. While adult deer have little chance of being preyed upon, fawns were certainly targeted in the article you referenced.
I would like to point out, though, that I don't see a reference to overall population size (to compare the fawn mortality to). 
Also, please keep in mind that Kiawah Island is only thirteen or so square miles. The prey don't have as much room to roam/flee as, say, SE Ohio.
But I do appreciate the scientific approach!


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## Shocker

I believe coyotes main meal are field mice yet they still kill deer enough to have people complain about it same I’m sure would go for bobcats


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## Shocker

I guess what I’m saying is deer are not the primary source of food for coyotes and also coyotes eat more fawns than adult deer also which means basically they are a lot alike


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## Shocker




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## Shocker

Many and many of things listed on a coyotes diet before deer... yet coyotes are a big issue with deer here I’m sure bobcats will be the same


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## berkshirepresident

Shocker: Please keep in mind that the reproductive rate of coyotes is much different than bobcats....and they often hunt in packs. It's a different animal. Literally. 
Many people have seen coyotes team up on a farm animal or pet. Can't really say the same for bobcats.
While a large, thriving population of bobcats will clearly effect the ecosystem in which they live, it's too early to say how or think we know what the results will be. It will have to play out.
Also, in the first survey that you posted, it attributes most of the fawn kills to a single, male bobcat. What that means is that all other male bobcats in the population weren't feeding on deer/fawns. That male bobcat was likely exhibiting atypical behavior. But that's part of what the study wanted to find out.
Is it possible that you'll be right and I'll be dead wrong down the road? Absolutely. But I think it's unlikely. Time will tell, though. 
Personally, I'm glad that a native animal is making a comeback.
It wasn't that long ago that whitetail were hard to hunt and wild turkeys, bald eagles, and many other native animals were rarely seen in Ohio and, in some cases, close to extinction.
Personally, I welcome the Bobcats back....and any girl from OU that will currently talk to me.


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## Shocker

So adding bobcats to the coyote population will help the prey have a better chance of living?


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## Shocker

If the answer is no then I say kill the bobcats


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## berkshirepresident

Shocker said:


> So adding bobcats to the coyote population will help the prey have a better chance of living?


Yes. Together, they are responsible for the perch decline in the Central and Eastern Basins of Lake Erie. Just kidding.
Despite all of the coyotes and all of the car accidents, there are still a LOT of deer in Ohio. I don't see that changing any time soon.
Results may differ on a county by county basis, but whitetail deer aren't exactly endangered at the moment.
http://www.deerfriendly.com/deer/ohio


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## berkshirepresident

Shocker said:


> If the answer is no then I say kill the bobcats


That's not very Sporting......


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## Shocker

You seem to think all I’m worried about is deer.. I love turkey hunting, rabbit hunting, pheasant hunting and pretty much any small game you can think of


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## Shocker

You don’t think killing bobcats would be sporting?? I kill coyotes and I consider it sporting it’s awesome to call coyotes at night and hear them respond and come running in... but I still hate them more than I love hunting them so I kill them anyway I get the opportunity to


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## Shocker

Some people would say trolling isn’t sporting either but people troll Lake Erie more than any other kind of walleye fishing or so it seems


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## Shocker

Some people say deer drives aren’t very sporting... happens every day of deer gun season


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## garhtr

berkshirepresident said:


> I'm glad that a native animal is making a comeback.


 I've seen this comment a few times "making a comeback" but I've still seen no data that provides a estimate of cats in Ohio (I've been looking) 
They seem to be secretive and is it possible the average hunter could under estimate bcat numbers? Maybe the comeback has arrived (limited areas) and area's where cats would've been Trapped has reached its peak? *Who would know best?*
My understanding of hunting/trapping has always been that you harvest the surplus of animals. *Who would know that number? * Is it possible bcats have reached #'s that could sustain a hunt without reducing the population in certain areas ? Imo qualified biologist should make the call on harvest and not a amateur naturalist/artist that was able to gather a list of signatures and sway Dnr. 
The research has been completed by biologist and Odnr deemed a limited trapping quota was appropriate but caved to anti hunters/trappers---Sad !
We'll see what the future brings, hopefully the correct decision (but I doubt it)
Good luck and good hunting


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## berkshirepresident

Shocker said:


> Some people say deer drives aren’t very sporting...


Depends on who your neighbors are!


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## Fish-N-Fool

FYI - I've never hunted nor killed any of the exotic and game animals I've eaten (other than typical OH game). A guy I have worked with a decade or so has a filthy rich uncle that has traveled the globe hunting everything alive. I've never been to his home, but seen pictures and he has several hundred thousand dollars worth of mounts and multiple large trophy displays rooms in his "mini mansion" out west. It looks like a dang museum! Whenever legal and possible he has meat returned to the states. The list of animals in north America I have NOT eaten would be the shorter list!!

I have no desire to hunt bobcats and said as much in my post - legal or not I wouldn't shoot one unless it was a nuisance, I am just not interested. However, I will willingly try different animals and bobcat and mountain lion definitely taste like pork! 

And not to steer too far off a bobcat season, but honestly the very best jerky I have ever eaten was a mix of elk and goose. His uncle had several pounds of this stuff made and it was to die for!

I doubt people will ever be hunting bobcats for food in OH, but if we get to a small trapping season there is no need to waste such good meat imo.


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## miked913

I hunt 2 parcels in SE Ohio, 1 450+ acres in Morgan and 3 or so miles away 615+ acres in Noble co. There are 10 of us on nearly 1100 acres. We're running atleast 20 cams at any one time. We get 2-3 bobcat pics for every 1 coyote. We have all seen cats from the stand, and 4 of us have watched them actually stalking and actively chasing adult deer in the fall, they have all been chased out of eye sight so the outcome is unknown. I have witnessed 1 unsuccessful and 1 successful rabbit hunt and 1 successful squirrel hunt though.









Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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## hoplovestofish

Sitting in my living room watching two deer in the yard, suddenly one snorted and stomped. I looked to see what was going on and observed a bobcat running through the yard. Both deer continued watching it until it was out of sight. Happened 20 minutes ago. hop


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