# home defense



## zipperneck52 (May 1, 2004)

Ok, I'll start out by saying that I really don't expect to have a CCW real soon, but the wife has given her gracious permission for me to purchase a home defense pistol, and since I do respect the opinions of others I'm looking for some input from the shooters on OGF. I have to admit that I have a favorite, a Taurus revolver in 357mag. I like the idea of plinkin' with 38's and I know that the 357 shotshell does exist. Comments, opinions, critics???


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## Nikster (Mar 14, 2007)

In my humble opinion, KEEP IT SIMPLE!

Everyone raves about having a auto with 100rounds that it can shoot;lol.

When the poop hits the fan, hoping that it never does & in the heat of the moment heres what can happen.

With a revolver is the way to go. Plain simple, point squeeze & shoot. With another in the house they have to shoot the gun to get familiar & confident with it. Not having to freeze & panic if you have to chamber a round in a a given situation & then it dont fire. Opppps forgot about pressing button to fire , DARN. Well it happens all the time. Even with seasoned law enforcement people.

A 38/357 is the way to go. Shoot 357's at the range so you & spouse know what to expect. Having a 357 go off in closed quarters will really screw up your hearing. Thats why shooting 38's are great & are more friendly at home for all. Well not if you tag the culprit.

Nik


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## Bonemann (Jan 28, 2008)

I have always been a "wheel gun" man because of
it's simplicity and reliability. A very good choice IMHO.

But don't over look the home defense shotgun. They
are very easy to use and easy to learn to use too.
There are many types of shells that are great for home
defense just about any type of buckshot or turkey load
will do. And it's point and shoot not much to think about.

Although revolvers are simple you still need to practice
alot to be able to quikly aim and shoot one at your target.

I've been shooting since I was a kid and my choice for
home defence would be and is a 12ga. shotgun loaded
with 00 buck.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

IMO a 357/38 wheel gun is a good reliable, simple home defense gun and one that doubles as an economical range gun. I had that gun but opted to trade it for a semi auto which was better suited for me as a carry gun and also doubles as my home defense.


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## PITCHNIT (Nov 2, 2004)

Do you already have a shotgun? If not my suggestion would be to start there. In a home if you load #4-#2 birdshot you really reduce penetration of walls and such. I live in the country. My first round is #4 buck, followed by 00buck alternate between slug & 00 buck. You might ask about the penetration but in my situation I am not concerned (no kids in the house or close neighbors).


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

I disagree with the shottie as a primary HD gun.
There are times when you might have someone knock on your door at night. A handgun is easily concealed behind your back or at your side while cracking the door to see who's outside. 
When clearing a room, even the shortest barrel allowed by law (18) is difficult to maneuver around corners and over obstacles. 

A short barreled .357 makes sense. Easy to control, conceal and keep ready at hand if needed. The added bonus of shooting .38 practice rounds makes it a gun that the wife can shoot as well (and you really should teach your wife even if she resists), (you never know when SHE might need to use it if you are away OR somehow become unable to fire your weapon). Taurus makes a good handgun and a wheel gun IS the most reliable out there.
My choice would be a .357 Revolver.


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## olwhitee (Apr 10, 2004)

In my home I would rather have 5-8 rounds of double o buckshot. Requires no aiming or skill and will neutralize any situation. The shotgun is excellent in versatility and would be useable by both you and your spouse.

Just my .02


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## elkhtr (Oct 23, 2006)

A handgun would probably be your best choice IMO. Like others stated, it is difficult to clear corners and tight places with a long gun. The handgun is also easier to keep ready at hand when answering the door or even going outside to check on a noise, etc. It can be kept in a holster out of the way when answering the door, etc, but very accessable. 

I actually prefer a simple operating autoloader, just for the capacity (ammo). 6 rounds can go pretty fast in a firefight. You dont want to have to reload when the poop hits the fan.

Also, keep a good quality flashlight handy as well. You need to identify the things that go bump in the night before you shoot them .


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## AJ1991WB (Mar 3, 2010)

I think its important to realize that any weapon has its strengths and weaknesses and the most important thing is buy a weapon that fits your hand well and it comfortable to you ( trigger pull, sights, and ergonomics should all be taken into consideration) this is after all something your life or the life of a loved one may depend on. So its whatever your most comfortable with be it a shotgun, AR type rifle or handgun and don't fall into the false belief that you can't miss with a shotgun because in the distances youll encounter in a home defense situation 00 buck will only have a spread of maybe a few inches. The most important thing you can do is buy whats comfortable to you and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!


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## BassBlaster (Jun 8, 2006)

Seems everyone thinks a revolver or a shotty is the best for home defence so why not have the best of both worlds? A revolver that shoots shot shells!! The Taurus Judge is a beast!!


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## olwhitee (Apr 10, 2004)

AJ1991WB said:


> I think its important to realize that any weapon has its strengths and weaknesses and the most important thing is buy a weapon that fits your hand well and it comfortable to you ( trigger pull, sights, and ergonomics should all be taken into consideration) this is after all something your life or the life of a loved one may depend on. So its whatever your most comfortable with be it a shotgun, AR type rifle or handgun and don't fall into the false belief that you can't miss with a shotgun because in the distances youll encounter in a home defense situation 00 buck will only have a spread of maybe a few inches. The most important thing you can do is buy whats comfortable to you and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!


Well said. However, if someone felt like they would be unable to hit a human target within the confines of their house with a oo buck load then maybe they ought to skip a gun all together. Especially if you have 8 tries. 

I have a 1911 that I keep bedside, but I can shoot it. For a beginner or someone who just wants a weapon to protect themselves, shotgun is my choice.

OP: You also will want to consider and keep in mind your house layout. Have any kids? Neighbors? Bullets will travel through walls and doors and into areas you may not want them to go. Keep that in mind when deciding.

I second the Taurus Judge idea. I would like to get on myself one of these days. Pretty tough to beat.


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## Bonemann (Jan 28, 2008)

BassBlaster said:


> Seems everyone thinks a revolver or a shotty is the best for home defence so why not have the best of both worlds? A revolver that shoots shot shells!! The Taurus Judge is a beast!!


The Judge is only a beast in it's looks. It's not bad if you fire 45cal Long Colt
but as far as using 410ga it does not make a good home defense gun.

This site checked out the old Judge (that would only shoot 2 1/2" 410ga but the 3" 410ga is not much better). 



http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

Check it out.


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## PITCHNIT (Nov 2, 2004)

Back to the OP. The 357 revolver is a good choice for the reasons you mention plus if it doesn't go bang just pull the trigger again. If that is what you think is rught for you then by all means it is a good choice.Very solid and reliable. Other than the shottie, a 45 is close at hand (just because that is what I prefer) and a 38spl is hidden in the safe room. FYI if you are serious about the safety of your loved ones please think this thru and develop a plan. Consider who is in the house with you where are the most likely shots to be taken and the safety of others both in the house and your neighbors. 

Best regards.

By the way, forget the 357 shot shell. Its really only any good for snakes.

OLWHITEE, sorry for reiterating some of your comments. I didn't notice until after I had already posted.


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## bunkeru2k (Aug 26, 2005)

What size barrel on the Taurus? If you are talking a 4" or 6" barrel, I would load that with .38 Special +P rounds and use it. The .357 mag can have some overpenetration issues, not to mention the serious flash and sound issues coming from those hot loads. It is highly recommended to do significant amounts of shooting with whatever type of load you intend to use. If you are going to use .357 as your main defense load, then shoot a LOT of .357 through it. If you are shooting mouse fart .38 rounds and are used to that, it will be a super shock when you need it to save your life and are not prepared for what happens when that much hotter load is blinding you and pounding your hand.

My personal setup for home is a Remington 870 with an 18" barrel, recoil reducing stock, 8 round extended tube, and loaded with reduced recoil slugs. I have some reduced recoil 00 buckshot as well, but from ballistics tests I have seen, buckshot is not always the stopper we think it is. The reduced recoil slugs are much gentler and do not have the overpenetration issues that full power slugs do.


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## creature catcher (Mar 30, 2008)

I have been watching this thread for awhile. #6 bird shot loaded in a 12 guage shotgun does not over penetrate and will basicly cut a man in half at 20 feet.This is what I was told by a SWAT entry officer.If you really think about it,how many shots are you going to have in that range inside your home? Food for thought!


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## zipperneck52 (May 1, 2004)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.
The pistol I'm looking at is a Taurus 627, 4" ported barrel in .357.
And yes I do have a small 20ga, but no shotshells. Guess I'll have to get some #4 or #6 for it.


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## PITCHNIT (Nov 2, 2004)

Nothing wrong with the 20ga. It'll do the job. I do agree with the previous poster regarding moving about the house with a full length gun. My barrell is 20" with a slightly shorter than youth sized stock.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

zipperneck52 said:


> Thanks to everyone for the feedback.
> The pistol I'm looking at is a Taurus 627, 4" ported barrel in .357.


do not get a ported gun for home defense, you will be temporaily blinded by the flash at night. in other words, you will lose any night vision you have, losing the upper hand on an intruder, especially if he charges you. you will still lose some from muzzle flash, but nowhere near as much with a solid barrel compaired to a ported one. my personal defense weapon (home and carry) is a glock 23. i trust it with my life and shoot it well. what ever you get, practice with it regularly. dont buy it, stuff it in a drawer and forget about it. theres nothing wrong with the taurus 627, i just traded mine in last year for a larger caliber handgun.


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## bunkeru2k (Aug 26, 2005)

creature catcher said:


> I have been watching this thread for awhile. #6 bird shot loaded in a 12 guage shotgun does not over penetrate and will basicly cut a man in half at 20 feet.This is what I was told by a SWAT entry officer.If you really think about it,how many shots are you going to have in that range inside your home? Food for thought!


The guy that told you this is completely full of crap. Sure, someone could be killed by bird shot, but by no means will it "cut a man in half" or even have enough RELIABLE penetration to kill any man, much less one that could be wearing a coat or leather or multiple layers. Quite simple laws of physics are in play....if it will not penetrate through the house it will NOT penetrate reliably enough in a human to stop them. This has been repeatedly hashed out on firearms sites over and over and over again. Bird shot will make a nasty nasty entrance wound but is not even put into the realm of defense rounds.....it is designed to kill birds...hence the name bird shot. 

From the documentation from reliable sources in law enforcement that dealt with hundreds of shootings, they even claimed that buckshot was quite an underperformer from their expectations in real life shootings. It had much to do with the deformity of the shot as it exited the barrel from what they could gather.

Bottom line that I will reiterate.....if you need to stop something, you MUST have the penetration to accomplish that. That generally means more than 12" in ballistics gel and you need to take into account clothing. Selecting something based off of "I don't want it to go through drywall" and you are just being delusional.


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## 7thcorpsFA (Mar 6, 2010)

My first and most effective defence is a barking dog. If he gets passed the dog I use a 12ga. pump with #4 high brass,38spl.with hot loads and last but not least a S&W 357mag. with deer hunting loads. I sleep well at night.


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## discoii (Mar 28, 2009)

Very sound advice IMO, revolver is the way to go if you do not plan to become proficient with the weapon and it is a lot safer around folks who are not.

Shot gun can and does make a very effective defense weapon. the combination is the best IMO

Stay away from fancy high dollar buttons and levers per dollar weapons, they are for professionals or folks who do a lot of shooting I mean a lot..

You all gave good solid advice.


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## Angler ss (May 15, 2008)

I agree that #6 shot might not cut a man in half or drop him dead. The blast of #6 to the face at 20 feet would cause major damage to the face (eyes, teeth and nose). I bet no human will wan't a 2nd blast . I have a .357 ruger sp 101 great gun it has more than enough stopping power and it is nice to shoot 38's but hitting your target with a pistol while nervous is easier said than done, kinda like hitting a monster buck at 75 yards when your shakeing like a leaf from buck fevor. I don't care if you have a 44 mag if the bullet isn't properly placed it won't get the job done hiting a target with any size shot is much eaiser than hitting a target with a single bullet.
Angler ss


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Bonemann said:


> The Judge is only a beast in it's looks. It's not bad if you fire 45cal Long Colt but as far as using 410ga it does not make a good home defense gun. This site checked out the old Judge (that would only shoot 2 1/2" 410ga but the 3" 410ga is not much better).
> 
> http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
> 
> Check it out.



100% whole heartly disagree! They are comparing 410 birdshot in that article! I have a Judge and have it on me when I am at the ramps at night. Federal makes a Personal Protection shell specially made for the Judge. It's a 410 shell loaded with 4 pellets of 000 buck. 

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/buckshot.aspx?id=848

I think the Judge makes a fine home defense wheel gun. To the OP I think your right about choosing a wheek gun and in my opinon you just can't go wrong w/ a new Taurus revolver, wheter it's a Judge, a .357 or even the plain jane model 85 38's. I would strongly recomend staying away from a Taurus revolver made prior to the late 90's though. The older one's have a reputation for having soft firing pins. I had a Taurus 44 Special Snubbie. I loved the gun, absouletely loved it. I took my CCW class with it, but it's firing pin failed.


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## steve b (Jun 15, 2009)

A revolver is no simpler than a Glock. Pull the trigger, BANG ! Don't pull the trigger, no bang. Plus, you are much more likely to not need to reload in the middle of an "incidient". No matter how much people practice, NOBODY really wants to do a reload in the middle of a gun fight. If the fight has come to the point of physical contact, you will not have a free hand to use to do so. Reality just sucks. A bedside handgun should be holstered, when you fumble to first pick it up, you cannot get a finger thru the finger guard and get an AD, accidental discharge. A dog of any kind is greatly recommended, your early warning system so to speak. Many tightly held opinions on this subject. I'll not waste time argueing, I will accept some pm's. steve b


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## bassfisher0869 (Mar 31, 2010)

kimberly 45 acp you can not beat that


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## discoii (Mar 28, 2009)

All the above is great and accurate advice IMO, The first thing you must ask yourself, come to grips with, could you shoot someone. It is home defense not offense. The best advice I was ever giving was if you think someone is in your house fire a round into the corner of the room that you are in. 99% of folks will leave and that is what I really want.

Just some thoughts.


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## Socom (Nov 3, 2005)

bassfisher0869 said:


> kimberly 45 acp you can not beat that



Those are some expensive fire arms. They are good though, a friend of mine had a kimber .45 can't remember the exact model but it was fun to shoot. I would not recommend for home defense though if you want your wife to be able to shoot, especially if she is not used to using firearms.


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## 2percent (Jun 27, 2009)

I think you'll be fine no matter what you choose. If you shoot someone with a 22 they are most likely not going to proceed in for a burglary. What really comes into play is the way you react. If you panic and end up in a scuffle your defense weapon could turn into his advantage. Just remember if you pull it be ready to use it. To many people around think a gun makes them tough and it is all show. Practice with it and get acquainted with it. 

Ive had guns pulled on me a few times before. You can see it in their eyes if they will shoot or not. Best bet remain calm and do not show fear. Yes it is hard to do, but the circumstances I have been in may have been awkward and I wasn't really scared ..


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

This is gonna sound really cynical, but, if you shoot someone who has broken into your house, and they live, they are probably gonna sue you. Before anybody says they can't or won't, do some research. If they live, they most likely are going to prison, and they've got nothing but time, and you will have to pay your lawyer for defense. It sounds bad, but, IMO, if you're gonna pull the trigger, be prepared to kill them. On going medical bills can be much higher than a wrongfull death claim. And also be prepared for the emotional burden. Having killed someone can be extremely heavy on one's soul, no matter the circumstances.

If I were you, I'd get a handgun for myself, and have the shotgun for the wife as back up, but make sure she can use them both. I'd get a slug barrel for it, and load it with Buckshot. A shotguns pattern at 20 feet is about 2 inches. Don't forget, the weight of a shotgun also makes it a great club. I'd get whatever hangun you feel most comfortable with. I opted for a revolver, partly because of it's ease of use, but mostly because the wife is also comfortable with it. I feel a semi auto, in the hands of someone under pressure, is to easy to forget it's functions. I've only seen a revolver jam once, and that was because of a faulty reload. Semi auto's are a different story. There is really a lot more to good home defense, than just buying a gun. I'd definately get a dog as well. IMO, you can't beat a big Black Lab. Usually good with kids, loyal and protective. Their bark is pretty intimidating too. 

There can be so many scenarios that you really need to think through, especially the layout of your house. Are there occupied bedrooms at the end of the hallway? Are there windows that you may be shot through? This is one thing people tend to not consider. People tend to think that just because they've got a gun, now they are safe. Having the gun is only the start. Like buying a car, you have to learn to drive. Only learning to load and shoot is like only learning to start the car and put it in drive. My suggestion is, sometime when you are home alone, go through your house from a tactical defensive position. Where are the places you can be aggresive, if it's needed to be, without endangering those around you? Consider where you will confront an intruder, like if they are in this room, I can get to them from here, or if they are in this room, I can get to them from here, or if they are in the garage, I'll approach them from here. You will probably be suprised at how compomising your house can be.

Also, consider the stray bullet perspective. There will be some places in your house that the intruder may be that you cannot safely confront them. Where are the blind spots? When and where will your back be turned, blinding you to the possible presence of another intruder? Remember too, what is behind YOU. This really gets overlooked, but if the shots start, where will the strays that are fired at you be going? Not always, but, a lot of times, an armed intruder has never really practised with their gun, and they are using the gun more for intimidation, rather than having the intention of shooting you, but you have to assume they are willing to kill you. 

Consider the placement of your weapons storage, as well. If you are say, in your living room, and someone breaks through the backdoor, are they now between you and your weapons? What if there are several intruders? You want to get yourself in the ultimate, uncompomising, upper handed position if possible, and you need to know where those places are beforehand.

IMO, worrying about the cumbersomeness of a shotgun for clearing rooms, shouldn't be a real concern for a homeowner. You are not a one man SWAT team. Unless there is, or is impending, bodily damage occuring i.e. rape, beating, etc., you should not be going from room to room. If you know there is someone in your house, do you really need to go looking for them? Focusing on one known intruder will further blind you to the possibility of others being present. Is it worth your life, or those of your family to stop a thief? IMO, arm yourself and call 911, and get yourself in a defendable position. Forget the crap we see in the movies, and take a realistic approach. Yell at them. More often than not, an intruder will flee before shooting or being shot at, if they have an escape route. Let them know you are armed. If you corner them, you are greatly raising the likelyhood that they will shoot. Do you really want that?

Last, make sure the other members of your family know what to do. If you get into a confrontation, you don't want your child to come out of their room to see what all of the comotion is. Make sure they know to crawl under their beds, or hide somewhere. Make sure they know to stay out of the way. Home defense is about home defense, not home offense.


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## johnny fish (Feb 20, 2005)

Well put Ifish HOME DEFENSE IS ABOUT HOME DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!! When it comes to defending your home and loved ones yes a gun is a fine a tool to have but also be aware that in a home invasion a physical altercation could happen very easily. It is your home so you should know first hand where everything you could possibly use as a weapon is for example fire place tools, aerosol sprays to the eyes, any heavy objects to hit an intruder with. sure they could also use the same things against you but for god's sake it's your home just like in sports you have HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE use it to your benefit!!!!!


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## 7thcorpsFA (Mar 6, 2010)

If you get that barking dog it will drop the chances of a deadly confrontation by 99%! If the intruder isn't ran off by the dog you will probably have to kill him, because he is nuts or on some kind of dope!


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## bunkeru2k (Aug 26, 2005)

I Fish said:


> This is gonna sound really cynical, but, if you shoot someone who has broken into your house, and they live, they are probably gonna sue you. Before anybody says they can't or won't, do some research. If they live, they most likely are going to prison, and they've got nothing but time, and you will have to pay your lawyer for defense. It sounds bad, but, IMO, if you're gonna pull the trigger, be prepared to kill them. On going medical bills can be much higher than a wrongfull death claim. And also be prepared for the emotional burden. Having killed someone can be extremely heavy on one's soul, no matter the circumstances.


I do not believe you are familiar with the law in Ohio. As of 2009 when they passed the bill known as the castle doctrine, Ohio law does not allow them or their family to sue if they were unlawfully in your residence. It does not matter if they live or die, no civil case can be brought against you unless you were found to have basically done something illegal.

You do not ever want to be saying anything along the lines of "I wanted to make sure they were dead so they could not sue me." You shoot to STOP THE THREAT....nothing more and nothing less. If they live or die it makes zero difference.....you shoot them until they have either left the premises or they go down and are unable to continue fighting.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

bunkeru2k said:


> I do not believe you are familiar with the law in Ohio. As of 2009 when they passed the bill known as the castle doctrine, Ohio law does not allow them or their family to sue if they were unlawfully in your residence. It does not matter if they live or die, no civil case can be brought against you unless you were found to have basically done something illegal.


Good. I had heard of that law before it was passed, but never kept up with it. I figured it made too much sense to pass. Glad it did though. Does this mean I can get rid of the plant?


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

bunkeru2k said:


> I do not believe you are familiar with the law in Ohio. As of 2009 when they passed the bill known as the castle doctrine, Ohio law does not allow them or their family to sue if they were unlawfully in your residence. It does not matter if they live or die, no civil case can be brought against you unless you were found to have basically done something illegal.
> 
> You do not ever want to be saying anything along the lines of "I wanted to make sure they were dead so they could not sue me." You shoot to STOP THE THREAT....nothing more and nothing less. If they live or die it makes zero difference.....you shoot them until they have either left the premises or they go down and are unable to continue fighting.


The Castle Doctrine also applies while in your vehicle, if you are driving, or are a passenger in another vehicle.


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

bunkeru2k said:


> I do not believe you are familiar with the law in Ohio. As of 2009 when they passed the bill known as the castle doctrine, Ohio law does not allow them or their family to sue if they were unlawfully in your residence. It does not matter if they live or die, no civil case can be brought against you unless you were found to have basically done something illegal.
> 
> You do not ever want to be saying anything along the lines of "I wanted to make sure they were dead so they could not sue me." You shoot to STOP THE THREAT....nothing more and nothing less. If they live or die it makes zero difference.....you shoot them until they have either left the premises or they go down and are unable to continue fighting.


I just compleated my CCW class last weekend and my instructor taught us about the castle doctrin act, but he still pushed that if you shoot you better be undoubtedly for sure you are in fear of your life or serious physical harm to you or your family, because you can be sued if it is found to be wrongful..... you can't just shoot them because they are stealing your big screen or cause they have killed your dog inside your house. you can stand your ground thats it untill you have no reasonable doubt they are gonna hurt you or your family.... if they are unlawfully in your house you cannot fire a warning shot, they will slap you with attempted murder. about the only thing you can do is order them to the floor and to not move, with your gun drawn, or voice that your there and let them run out... by the way the first thing to do would be to have someone call 911 while your are investigating. i'm gonna attach an article that Buckeye Firearms (who is one of the main fighters for our rights currently) sent me on facebook this morning... http://ht.ly/1WIhT..... I suggest that everyone check out their website....... Evin


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

you can get an up to date copy of the laws at your sherrifs office or online. 
LAWS BOOKLET LINK http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...ations/2009-Concealed-Carry-Laws-Booklet.aspx

CASTLE DOCTRINE
Castle Doctrine
Under certain changes enacted in 2008, a person does not have a
duty to retreat from the residence that they lawfully occupy before
using force in self-defense or defense of another. Additionally, there
is no duty to retreat if the person is lawfully in that person&#8217;s vehicle
or lawfully is an occupant in a vehicle owned by an immediate family
member of that person. However, being a lawful occupant of a
residence or vehicle is not a license to use deadly force against an
attacker. The person who is attacked, without fault of his own, may
use deadly force only if he reasonably and honestly believed that
deadly force was necessary to prevent serious bodily harm or death.
If the person does not have this belief, he should not use deadly force.
Again, if it does not put your life or the life of others in danger, you
should withdraw from the confrontation if it is safe for you to do so.
The law presumes you to have acted in self-defense or defense of
another when using deadly force if the victim had unlawfully and
without privilege entered or was in the process of entering the
residence or vehicle you occupy. The presumption does not apply
if the defendant was unlawfully in that residence or vehicle. The
presumption does not apply if the victim had a right to be in, or was a
lawful resident, of the residence or vehicle.
The presumption of self-defense is a rebuttable presumption. The
term &#8220;rebuttable presumption&#8221; means the prosecutor, and not the
defendant, carries the burden of producing evidence contrary to
the facts that the law presumes. However, a rebuttable presumption
does not relieve the defendant of the burden of proof. If the
prosecutor provides sufficient evidence to prove that the defendant
created the confrontation or that the use of deadly force was not
reasonably necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm then the
presumption of self-defense no longer exists.


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## bunkeru2k (Aug 26, 2005)

powerstrokin73 said:


> I just compleated my CCW class last weekend and my instructor taught us about the castle doctrin act, but he still pushed that if you shoot you better be undoubtedly for sure you are in fear of your life or serious physical harm to you or your family, because you can be sued if it is found to be wrongful..... you can't just shoot them because they are stealing your big screen or cause they have killed your dog inside your house. you can stand your ground thats it untill you have no reasonable doubt they are gonna hurt you or your family.... if they are unlawfully in your house you cannot fire a warning shot, they will slap you with attempted murder. about the only thing you can do is order them to the floor and to not move, with your gun drawn, or voice that your there and let them run out... by the way the first thing to do would be to have someone call 911 while your are investigating. i'm gonna attach an article that Buckeye Firearms (who is one of the main fighters for our rights currently) sent me on facebook this morning... http://ht.ly/1WIhT..... I suggest that everyone check out their website....... Evin


If they are in your house it does not matter if they are stealing your big screen or killed your dog or are watering the flowers in the pots. Lets read the pertinent section here



> (B)(1) Subject to division (B)(2) of this section, a person is presumed to have acted in self defense or defense of another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another *if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of unlawfully and without privilege to do so entering, or has unlawfully and without privilege to do so entered, the residence or vehicle occupied by the person* using the defensive force.


In common speak, if they unlawfully come into your residence while you are there, then they are automatically presumed to be there to do you harm (which is why it is spelled out to say that you acted in self defense or defense of another). The presumption is now on the prosecutor to show that you were in some way at fault for this....as an example you can't invite a salesman into your house and then pop .45's in him. One example for a presumption of self defense being thrown out would be that you were selling drugs out of your house and someone robbed you during a transaction. 

It would take one seriously bent prosecutor to even attempt to take a home invasion case to grand jury....and it would be one intent on losing his job.



> if they are unlawfully in your house you cannot fire a warning shot, they will slap you with attempted murder. about the only thing you can do is order them to the floor and to not move, with your gun drawn, or voice that your there and let them run out


This statement is a complete and utter absurdity. It takes absolutely no account for disparity of force or any other variable to start with....and that is not even including the presumption of self defense spelled right out in the law.


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

Just like a lot of the other laws for ohio CCW. they are not thurough enough... i was just stating it the way i was taught and quoting from the booklet of conceal carry laws that i was taught from... obviously there are many different ways to interpret the laws and different instructors are gonna teach their students differently....


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

.40 S&W is a good choice.

Something to think about , it may have already been mentioned but I'll say it anyway. In case of a break in and an aggressive attacker you dont want just a wounding weapon like say a .22 or .38 , the ugly truth to it is if you ever had to use the weapon in defense of you or a loved ones life , you dont want a survivor to sue you afterwards or to cast doubt on your story to law enforcement. And you sure dont want the now wounded but totally enraged attacker to get up and after you again. You want something big enough to finish the job on the first shot. Its important for every adult in the household to routinely practice with the handgun and be so familiar with it that there are no mistakes made under pressure. This was all told to me by a relative who used to be a self/home defense instructor as well as a cop.


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