# Muzzle load... where I ask???



## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Hey ODNR and OGF... what public land hunting grounds will provide the best opportunity to harvest a deer this coming muzzle loader season?


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## squidlips2020 (Jul 3, 2012)

Leesville or Atwood 



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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

your guess is as good as mine.....south eastern Ohio would be my guess

I have many in the backyard in Columbus too, the wife saw a nice buck yesterday mid day


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Columbus Zoo. It's the only place with any left. 


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

bobk said:


> Columbus Zoo. It's the only place with any left.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Ok, BobK I certainly earned that one. If the state is happy with the current deer herd situation I will just put on a few less clothes and my best hiking boots and cover a lot more ground to find a lone deer for the table.

I think we can agree that seeing more deer in the field would be nice. I think even the guys who hunted PA in years passed enjoyed seeing lots of deer over the actual harvest. I guess we as sportsman must now except the current numbers and deal with it. 

The state did listen in some respects by lowing a few of the permits. What burns me is the fact they beat there chest and say "see we are adjusting" to the herd numbers. No they are adjusting to the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. There is no actual management only quick knee jerk responses to insurance companies, agricultural firms or any body else with big money and than lastly the sportsman.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

bobk said:


> Columbus Zoo. It's the only place with any left.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Thats awesome advice here. The wilds would be a good back up plan.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *hopin to cash*:
> 
> I guess we as sportsman must now except the current numbers and *deal with it. *



The up side of this is the sportsman are the main element ( 'tool' as I heard someone say Mike Tonkovich put it) ODNR uses to continue lowering the deer herd numbers in the mostly rural, legal hunting zones. We have the opportunity to control the destination of the herd population in these areas.
Sooo... we, the sportsman can 'deal with it' by either continuing down the same path that is ruining our herd ultimately taking us off the map as one of the 'go to' states to hunt deer OR... we, the sportsman can back off a few years and let the herd build back up a bit. 

The 'ultimate' admitted goal of ODNR is to reduce the deer herd which they have very successfully done by using the hunters to do so. And I don't think I'd be too far out in left field saying the amount of reduction ODNR has set is primarily fueled by the enormous political clout of the insurance companies. ODNR has dangled sickening high bag limits in front of hunters like the serpent did with the apple to Eve in the Garden of Eden and guess what...we 'the sportsman' have been munching on that apple ever since.

So in reality, since us sportsman know the intentions of ODNR... and we know they are mostly using us to achieve their goals by having the huge bag limits, we sportsman/ hunters need to stop blaming ODNR for what we the sportsman are doing to ourselves. Regardless of the bag limits, us sportsman have to start looking around at what is happening around us and policing ourselves before our deer herd ends up like PA's.


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## squid_1 (Jun 2, 2005)

Definitely southeast Ohio. I can't ever remember seeing as many deer as this year. 1 week bow hunting during pre-rut over 30 different deer from the stands and this was southeast Ohio public hunting.


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## wolfenstein (Jan 6, 2014)

The deer are still there. Sorry if you can't just hunt one day and fill your tag. It makes me appreciate everything so much more after putting time in and scouting around. I feel that's what it is all about. Not just putting some meat in freezer (my first priority) but also spending the time outside and learning the habits and preferences of your quarry...almost like fishing on land...right place, right lure, right time! Irregardless can't get anything from the couch.


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

will be back at my sister-in-laws for the muzzle season unless raining, then it will be my place(dry)....they finally got tired of the deer eating all there flowers and plants and want them gone....it won't help with the plants from what a friend saw during gun week, we have limits and there is too many to fill our 2 limits

I sure wish I could bow hunt in town(Columbus), there is many,the neighbors said a large herd of them....I have counted 9 in one pack....I would only need a single at a time 

there was a lot of shooting around Old Mans cave(Hocking Hills) and saw many deer hanging at the cabins in the park from the hunters.....plenty of public hunting there and I guess open up some of the park that was off limits in the past....we might have reaped from the hunters pushing them to us on private besides the resident deer already there with some extra numbers seen after gun shots in the closer area to us....they learn where to go when the blasting starts and safe zones.....we haven't hunter there since I got my place 10years ago, so they never had to worry, and loved her big apple tree, they would come in all day when the apples were on and didn't bother them if we were sitting on the porch


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

fastwater said:


> The up side of this is the sportsman are the main element ( 'tool' as I heard someone say Mike Tonkovich put it) ODNR uses to continue lowering the deer herd numbers in the mostly rural, legal hunting zones. We have the opportunity to control the destination of the herd population in these areas.
> Sooo... we, the sportsman can 'deal with it' by either continuing down the same path that is ruining our herd ultimately taking us off the map as one of the 'go to' states to hunt deer OR... we, the sportsman can back off a few years and let the herd build back up a bit.
> 
> The 'ultimate' admitted goal of ODNR is to reduce the deer herd which they have very successfully done by using the hunters to do so. And I don't think I'd be too far out in left field saying the amount of reduction ODNR has set is primarily fueled by the enormous political clout of the insurance companies. ODNR has dangled sickening high bag limits in front of hunters like the serpent did with the apple to Eve in the Garden of Eden and guess what...we 'the sportsman' have been munching on that apple ever since.
> ...


This will never happen. You may get some hunters to voluntarily back off but it will never be enough to overcome the "if it's brown it's down" crowd, or the " If I don't shoot her someone else will" crowd.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

hopin to cash said:


> Ok, BobK I certainly earned that one. If the state is happy with the current deer herd situation I will just put on a few less clothes and my best hiking boots and cover a lot more ground to find a lone deer for the table.
> 
> I think we can agree that seeing more deer in the field would be nice. I think even the guys who hunted PA in years passed enjoyed seeing lots of deer over the actual harvest. I guess we as sportsman must now except the current numbers and deal with it.


I agree seeing more deer would be great. Odn doesn't seem to care what we have to say so best I can do as a landowner is control what I/we shoot on our land.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig posted by *reo*:
> 
> This will never happen. You may get some hunters to voluntarily back off but it will never be enough to overcome the "if it's brown it's down" crowd, or the " If I don't shoot her someone else will" crowd.


Sadly I believe you are right *reo*. And those attitude's are exactly what ODNR banks on when pouring the 'koolaid' many people are so eager to drink. 
'ODNR says our deer herd is fine'...must be fine. 'Odnr says we can shoot 3-4-6-8-12 deer a year'...thank ya Jesus. 'I'm seeing deer in my area so I'm gonna go out and try and fill every last tag I can. After all, ODNR said each person can shoot 4'.... Yeehaw! 

Please repost that site you posted about the breeding cycle of a deer will ya?

We many couch sitters located in several different counties that actually live in deer country and spend a certain percentage of almost every day out on our properties that don't have the pressures or influences of the big insurance companies to form our opinions of what we see that is actually going on around us... and stand nothing to gain by stating what is really happening(except that enough will be smart enough to listen and do something about it before our deer herd is depleted to the point of insurance companies wants) know nothing compared to what ODNR knows about our own properties.  

Like wolfenstein stated..."The deer are still there". ODNR said so. lol!
They just won't give an even close estimate of how many or what percentage is in 'no hunting' areas.

FWIW, *wolfenstein*, I have never been one to feel or even want to go out and kill a deer on the 1st day of season. Which happens to be bow for me. Unless I got lucky and the trophy I had scouted earlier that summer or hunted the year prior happened to show up. Most years that just hasn't happened on opening day, or for that matter...opening month. Passed many deer throughout bow season cause the one I was hunting didn't show up. Just enjoyed being out and watching the woods come alive. I have surely pressed the trigger on my camera more often then on the bow, shotgun,pistol or ML. 
I'd rather take a deer for the freezer during the cooler shotgun or late ML season so I can let it hang before processing.
I've spent my share of time in the woods as the only thing I have to do is walk out the front door to do so. Please know I am not stating this to boast. But to say when I state what I see happening, I'm not giving you an opinion of someone that just visits hunting territory on the weekend. I live here, am retired and love the outdoors. So do many that have the same opinions. Some living in other counties. So this is not just an isolated situation.

Are deer extinct? No. 

Is the deer herd/sign depleting at an alarming rate in the rural/hunting areas? You bet.
Common sense tells us that's where the majority of the deer are being killed to reach ODNR's secretive 'targeted' number.


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Here ya go! 
http://www.whitetailproperties.com/blog/how-average-hunters-can-fix-the-deer-decline

The only way to recovery , in my opinion, is for like minded hunters to apply pressure on the ODNR, loud and often. Below are probably the best lines in the linked article


_What You Can Control

Thriving deer populations in the 1990s and 2000s meant a lot of states expanded firearms seasons. Longer seasons, more generous bag limits...it works great when theres plenty of deer. Everybodys happy.

But now, when things arent so great, the laws have remained the same in some cases. *If your state agency hasnt reduced tags, bag limits, shortened seasons, etc., tell them they should!* Youre a taxpayer and hunter and your state agency needs to hear from you. Your state's deer population is hurting and without thoughtful seasons and bag limits, it will make quick deer population recovery difficult.
_


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

You know what they say, never put off killing a deer today when you might not see it tomorrow. Ive seen plenty of deer this season as in years past, but have noticed a great decline in the number of mature bucks. Lost track of how many small bucks I passed on over the last two years too many to count but this year I saw 12 does for every one small buck. Doe populations are still high on the properties I hunt, would see 6-8 of them every time out. I only saw one shooter buck the entire season which is very troubling, this includes spending much of November in a tree stand.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *Saugernut*:
> 
> ...but have noticed a great decline in the number of mature bucks. Lost track of how many small bucks I passed on over the last two years too many to count but this year I saw 12 does for every one small buck.


*Saugernut*, have also noticed the same scenario around here.

Have you noticed in the last couple a years that many does have dropped their fawns late in the season? Maybe a month to 1 1/2 mos. later then normal?? Seems we've noticed a lot of that going on around these parts. Was thinking this may be the reason for seeing so many smaller then normal bucks, such as button bucks throughout the seasons up to now that would normally at least be spikes by now. Same with smaller 1st year does for this time of season.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

Since this post turned into another rant. What we need is more coyote hunters. 

I wish people would go back to answering the OP question. OGF has far to many rants compared to the old days.

To the OP, I have always done good a Grand River or Salt Fork State Park.

Hunt the wetter areas. The other game hunters seem to push the deer there.
Once small game and the main Deer gun season has passed, the deer are not so much in the edge areas any more.

Try to find a rise overlooking a wetter area so you can stay dry. I have slogged many a wet area to be successful. I go into the scouted area and bring a plastic sled. Mine is orange. I leave it vertical leaning on a tree then continue to the spot to hunt. It makes a great deer drag. Being vertical makes it easy to spot where you left it.


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

Fastwater I have noticed that as well very small does and bbucks. Right now Im watching two big bucks fighting in a field as we speak. Pretty cool to see this late in the year.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

That is cool!

Must have a late hot doe in the area.


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