# More on worm info



## Star1pup

It's been discussed before, but I'l really trying to learn more about keeping nightcrawlers. I've been researching YouTube and learned there are Canadian crawlers and European crawlers. I'm trying to come up with a better bedding than Buss Bedding and Frabill's. Maybe add something else to these beddings? I also learned that Purina sells Worm Chow! Really?!

I hope some of you will weigh in on this subject and I'll be checking out previous threads on nightcrawlers.


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## leeabu

Star1pup said:


> It's been discussed before, but I'l really trying to learn more about keeping nightcrawlers. I've been researching YouTube and learned there are Canadian crawlers and European crawlers. I'm trying to come up with a better bedding than Buss Bedding and Frabill's. Maybe add something else to these beddings? I also learned that Purina sells Worm Chow! Really?!
> 
> I hope some of you will weigh in on this subject and I'll be checking out previous threads on nightcrawlers.


I used to use newspaper shreaded and coffee grounds. They got so big and fat I had to use both hands and a leg to get them on a hook. Trick is to keep them cool and damp.


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## Decoy hound

Used coffee grounds?


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## hurricanshawn86

Coffee grounds lightly good top soil n paper change everything two weeks look for dead or pinch worms keep cool they will grow leebua said you need two hands n a foot hold them down I use to catch mine n breed them it's alot of work but worth it that's how I did it three big cantirer in a basement cool with that mix n let them do there thing


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## Snakecharmer

Star1pup said:


> It's been discussed before, but I'l really trying to learn more about keeping nightcrawlers. I've been researching YouTube and learned there are Canadian crawlers and European crawlers. I'm trying to come up with a better bedding than Buss Bedding and Frabill's. Maybe add something else to these beddings? I also learned that Purina sells Worm Chow! Really?!
> 
> I hope some of you will weigh in on this subject and I'll be checking out previous threads on nightcrawlers.


 Read a copy of "Lunkers love Nightcrawlers". It will tell you how to grow them, condition them and best of all, how to catch fish with them!


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## leeabu

Decoy hound said:


> Used coffee grounds?


Yes. Used.


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## Star1pup

I've read Lunkers Love Nightcrawlers 4 times and it's a lot of info. But I'm trying to learn more.


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## baitguy

make sure the shredded newsprint is black and white only, they actually eat it, colored ink isn't good for them, and only newsprint, they won't eat the glossy magazine pages ... no need to buy special food unless you want to, they'll eat almost anything that's organic, fruits and veggies of all kinds but no meat, bread products, onions or citrus and be careful w/banana peels, they sometimes have insecticide sprayed on that isn't great for them ... tea works well and they love melon rinds of any kind, water, honeydew, cantaloupe, just discard the paper thin rinds when they're done ... throw some crushed up egg shells in as well, they use them for digestion ... be careful giving them to much coffee at once, the acidic nature can be a problem ... the worm poop is great fertilizer, just keep adding bedding and food, no need to change anything in the bedding until you want to, they'll even eat rotting food just be careful you don't get other bugs ... make sure there's no liquid accumulating in the bottom, collect that and use it for fertilizer as well ... refrigerated is OK but it slows their metabolisum and less likely to eat much, grow or breed, they will be fine in a cool basement or even an attached garage that doesn't freeze, at least until it gets hot again, then you'll have to put them someplace cool, worms don't deal with heat very well ... make sure there are air vents in your ranch ... European nightcrawlers are more like good sized red worms from your garden, not anywhere near the size of their Canadian cousins ... I'm thinking about starting a couple new farms for some African Nightcrawlers and some Alabama Jumpers ...


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## Nauti cat

My dad always used news paper and used coffee grounds every week we would dump them out and pick sick or dead and add some new shredded news paper. We kept them in a milk box yes they used to deliver milk! the box was insulated.


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## FAB

Don't forget, you need to keep a light on them or they will crawl and be all over the place.


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## Star1pup

Wasn't Buss Bedding once a type of moss?


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## Snakecharmer

Star1pup said:


> Wasn't Buss Bedding once a type of moss?


Yes... Not sure what kind, but it was a moss bedding.


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## DeathFromAbove

one of the best beddings ive found is wet ,old oakleaves. Wet newspaper underneath and on top to keep the leaves wet.Cheap, and they grow like snakes. Soak the dead oak leaves, and keep them damp. they eat those too


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## Star1pup

I still have the foam box that an order of crawlers came in and it fits in my fridge. It is deep enough to make a good bedding holder, but I wonder if I should leave the cover off. I want ventilation for the worms, but don't want them crawling all over the fridge.


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## baitguy

FAB said:


> Don't forget, you need to keep a light on them or they will crawl and be all over the place.





Star1pup said:


> I still have the foam box that an order of crawlers came in and it fits in my fridge. It is deep enough to make a good bedding holder, but I wonder if I should leave the cover off. I want ventilation for the worms, but don't want them crawling all over the fridge.


a light might keep them in but you'll want to keep a lid on them or they will be crawling all over the place, you'll find them on the inside of the lid when you take it off ... they definitely need ventilation, there are numerous different types of small vents around, or make your own out of plastic pipe of some sort, covering the holes with a mesh and put in the cover ... look at some of the worm ranches from Frabill and the like and get some ideas for vents


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## Star1pup

I have a Frabill Worm Farm, but I thought I needed something bigger. Maybe I could punch holes in the top of the foam container with a small nail or an awl. I'll check to see if Frabill makes something bigger. I'm really serious about this since my worm harnesses did well last summer.


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## Star1pup

Thinking that I might just get the Frabill Number V container. It's supposed to hold 10 - 12 dozen crawlers.

Now, any suggestions as to which commercial bedding?


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## baitguy

Frabills sells bedding and worm food, as well as a couple others, but you can make your own for free ... they eat their own weight every couple days ... shredded newsprint and veggie scraps works fine ...


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## Star1pup

I also read that Purina sells Worm Chow. Interesting!


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## G3guy

I keep mine in a plastic tote with a lid that I just drilled 1/4 inch holes in for ventilation. I use the buss beading and also feed soy bean meal or corn meal along with used coffee grounds. I’ve used other bedding and made my own but for me the buss beading is easiest . My tote is big enough that I use an entire bag of bedding.


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## Snakecharmer

Star1pup said:


> Thinking that I might just get the Frabill Number V container. It's supposed to hold 10 - 12 dozen crawlers.
> 
> Now, any suggestions as to which commercial bedding?


I'm wondering is you couldn't get a bale of sphagnum peat moss from Home depot and use that for worm bedding?


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## Star1pup

My wife puts baking soda in the fridge to keep it fresh. I wonder if that would hurt the worms.


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## Star1pup

I hope to have a lot of crawlers for spring fishing, which begins usually by April. My workshop is unheated and that's where my fridge is. I'm trying to decide just how early I can order worms. I wonder if the fridge will keep them from freezing?


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## baitguy

pup ... I'd get them ordered sooner rather than later ... it takes them a while to get settled in and comfortable w/their new surroundings before they start to breed, and you don't want to deplete your stock before they have a chance to give you grand-worms and great grand-worms  once they get going the only boundaries their breeding knows is enough food and the size of the container ... your Frabill will work fine but is limited in the quantities it will support, at some point they're liable to either quit breeding or be stunted like bluegills in a pond ... there are commercial ones that stack and you can just keep adding levels to them if you want, or you could build stackable ones if you wanted to ... depends what kind of unheated workshop ... my attached garage doesn't freeze and stays warm enough for them, but if it's unattached probably not ... in real life they just burrow deep enough and hibernate, 3' down or so, but a container sitting out in 15 degrees for most of January possibly will freeze them like little worm-cicles, might be good catfish bait at that point but not so much for anything else ... the fridge might keep them OK or maybe not, it might shut off when the temp gets below what the interior is set at and you're back to the freezing issue ... if you have a basement, that would work fine, I keep mine there, especially in summer ... or you could make a little heater out of a box and a small light bulb ... baking soda in the box for odors shouldn't hurt the worms at all...


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## Star1pup

Great info from baitguy. I appreciate it. Right now I have a foam container that some worms came in. Thinking about trying to see if it will work in my fridge in my unheated workshop without freezing the worms. I also talked to a guy who has kept crawlers for at least 5 months using compost cow manure that he got at Ace Hardware. Who would have thought keeping worms would be so interesting?


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## Hammerhead54

Has anyone actually had much success breeding Canadian nightcrawlers? I would give it a shot if I thought there was a decent chance of success. Or should I try to obtain some African crawlers for breeding? And does anyone know if African crawlers are as good for bait as the Canadian variety?


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## Star1pup

Hammerhead54 said:


> Has anyone actually had much success breeding Canadian nightcrawlers? I would give it a shot if I thought there was a decent chance of success. Or should I try to obtain some African crawlers for breeding? And does anyone know if African crawlers are as good for bait as the Canadian variety?


Good question. I hope we get an answer. Isn't there also a Eruopian crawler?


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## RollingRock

I used to ask the produce dept. at Walmart for the foam grape containers that they would receive them in. I would use grey tape to cover the holes and they would stack nice in the frig. Each container would hold 250 crawlers and keep for months


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## Star1pup

Now I'm deciding if I need holes in the top of my foam worm box. One guy says no and one says yes. Keeping worms is more involved than I thought it would be.


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## SNOOK5151

Will the crawlers continue to grow in the fridge or does that cold temp make them dormant. I bought a flat of 500 last year kept them most of the summer but they did not seem any bigger by the end than they were when I got them.


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## Star1pup

SNOOK5151 said:


> Will the crawlers continue to grow in the fridge or does that cold temp make them dormant. I bought a flat of 500 last year kept them most of the summer but they did not seem any bigger by the end than they were when I got them.


I just do not know. I had the same with a flat I bought a couple years ago. I'm still trying to figure it out.


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## baitguy

SNOOK5151 said:


> Will the crawlers continue to grow in the fridge or does that cold temp make them dormant. I bought a flat of 500 last year kept them most of the summer but they did not seem any bigger by the end than they were when I got them.


Snooks, the worms won't grow much in the fridge because, as you noted, of the temp ... most fridges are 38-40 degrees which keeps them in a moderately dormant mode ... just like fish under the ice, they're not as hungry as when it's warmer ... you'd also have to feed them for them to grow ... when you buy them by the flat, the growers don't put a lot of organic materials in, they just use a minimal amount of dirt, for a couple reasons ... 1) shipping weight and 2) cost, both of the dirt and added cost for #1 ... they also assume that most folks who buy a flat of worms are going to either immediately repackage them for sale (think bait shops) or use them fairly quickly, like fishermen ... a lot of the charter guys buy them that way to keep a good ready supply ... we have a drift and cast guy on here who could easily go thru 10-15 dozen a day on his charters, wouldn't take him long to go thru a flat ... the organic materials are what the worms eat, they'll actually get smaller over time because if you don't feed them they won't grow .... try putting your container someplace a bit warmer but remember, they don't like it hot ... maybe a basement or a fridge w/the temp kept closer to 60, and throw some food in there and you'll have better worms ...


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## baitguy

Star1pup said:


> Now I'm deciding if I need holes in the top of my foam worm box. One guy says no and one says yes. Keeping worms is more involved than I thought it would be.


Pup, you definitely need holes for long term storage, even the cups they come in from the bait store have them ... lot's of bad things happen w/o some ventilation ... worms still need to breathe, mold, mildew, heat build up ... drill a few 1/8" holes in the top, or a bigger hole and put a mesh cover over it ... check out the storage bins from any outdoor place for some ideas, they all have the vents for a reason ...


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## baitguy

Hammerhead54 said:


> Has anyone actually had much success breeding Canadian nightcrawlers? I would give it a shot if I thought there was a decent chance of success. Or should I try to obtain some African crawlers for breeding? And does anyone know if African crawlers are as good for bait as the Canadian variety?


Hammerhead ... Canadian crawlers will breed to some extent, not really prolific in captivity but it can be done ... most of the ones we buy at the bait shop are actually hand picked individually by folks crawling around on their hands and knees because of that ... there is a European crawler but they don't get much bigger than our common garden worms, OK for panfish but you need a really small hook ... African crawlers will reproduce and are bigger than the Europeans, they're fine as bait but don't get as big as their Canadian cousins ... lots of things online about breeding them but it takes a few months for them to reproduce to the point where you can start taking them out and not affect the numbers needed to keep a steady supply ... I'm writing articles and posting them here on that very subject, along with gathering and storage for all types of bait, or send me a PM if I you have any specific queries ...


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## SNOOK5151

Thanks for the response bait guy, I broke that flat into individual containers with worm bedding and 5 dozen crawlers to a box, I will try to leave a few boxes in the basement this spring and see how much difference there is between them and the others kept in the fridge.


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## Star1pup

Sure do get a lot of great info on this site. Thanks, guys!


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## Shortdrift

Buy a cheap paper office shredder and put the old newspaper to use. That shredding coupled with leaf mulch and supplemented with commercial worm food if you don't want to use food scraps and coffee grounds works well. I had my best luck keeping the worms at 52 degrees in a dedicated bait refrigerator.


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## baitguy

FootDr said:


> ahhh I see. Thank you.





Shortdrift said:


> Buy a cheap paper office shredder and put the old newspaper to use. That shredding coupled with leaf mulch and supplemented with commercial worm food if you don't want to use food scraps and coffee grounds works well. I had my best luck keeping the worms at 52 degrees in a dedicated bait refrigerator.


Good ideas shortdrift ... I have a couple articles on those very subjects, bedding and feeding, that will be posted soon ...


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## Star1pup

I finally bought a Frabill Worm habitat V. It's bigger and just fits in my bait fridge. It has 4 air hole things. I mixed 50/50 Frabill bedding and composted cow manure. Got the composted manure at Ace hardware.


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## Hammerhead54

Hey thanks for the reply baitguy. You sound really knowledgeable about crawlers. Now I know that if I try to raise crawlers it will be the African variety. I hope to be using a lot of crawlers on harnesses this coming year. Maybe I can put two on each harness to make up for the lack of size.


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## Star1pup

Hammerhead54 said:


> Hey thanks for the reply baitguy. You sound really knowledgeable about crawlers. Now I know that if I try to raise crawlers it will be the African variety. I hope to be using a lot of crawlers on harnesses this coming year. Maybe I can put two on each harness to make up for the lack of size.


Please keep us up to date on this. I might try them too as I fish a smaller lake.


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## baitguy

Hammerhead54 said:


> Hey thanks for the reply baitguy. You sound really knowledgeable about crawlers. Now I know that if I try to raise crawlers it will be the African variety. I hope to be using a lot of crawlers on harnesses this coming year. Maybe I can put two on each harness to make up for the lack of size.


no problem, hope it helps, I've learned a lot from the guys in here, just paying it forward ... remember that you have to buy the African crawlers and breed them, they're sold by the pound from breeders and would need to be kept in a well prepared worm farm, you need to pamper them a bit  it takes a while, a few months, to build up a sustainable population so you can take a bunch of them every time you go fishing, that won't happen overnight ... they also originated in Africa and aren't very tolerable of cold weather, have to be kept warmer than what you're used to ... the population will also be directly related to the size of their home and quality of the bedding and food ... overcrowding will stunt their growth, much like any pond with to many bluegills ... you'll need a good sized bin for them to reproduce at a rate that will keep a good supply ... they can get to be decent size but it's predicated on a good, proper sized bin, good feeding and a little time to grow ... I've got an article I'll be posting here on OGF next week on bin prep ... feel free to PM w/any questions ...


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## hailtothethief

I use the spagum moss and keep em in the fridge. They last and last. Never tried breeding them. Worms line the banks of my pond. All you gotta do is scrape the grass off the bank and they will come up in droves along the bank.


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## hailtothethief

The worms are out in full force tonight. Cant walk with out stepping on them. Good night to stock up


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## catmando

Star1pup said:


> It's been discussed before, but I'l really trying to learn more about keeping nightcrawlers. I've been researching YouTube and learned there are Canadian crawlers and European crawlers. I'm trying to come up with a better bedding than Buss Bedding and Frabill's. Maybe add something else to these beddings? I also learned that Purina sells Worm Chow! Really?!
> 
> I hope some of you will weigh in on this subject and I'll be checking out previous threads on nightcrawlers.


I just use a dark colored bin with peat moss and leaf litter on the top for food. Also, I will use cardboard with no ink, coffee grounds, corn meal and crushed egg shells for food. I went into the winter with close to 300 in the box and now have around 500.


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## catmando

Forgot to add the photo


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## hailtothethief

I took my worms out of the fridge today from december. Been over three months and they are well preserved. There are some white worms i assume that were ripped in half. They have wiggle still so i will fish with them too. I dont see any dead.36 degrees and sphagum moss was very effective at keeping them good. 

My minnows died these last few weeks that were scooped in december so i had to check my worms too. I did much better on the worms. I’ll have to keep working on my minnow preservation. Erie shiners are flimsy. Gonna have to step my game up


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## c. j. stone

A guy who used tons of them for catfishing when I was a kid kept them in a big(approx 26x34x30D)wooden box with a lid on it. The box was buried in the ground, in a shady place, up to the lid. He lined the underside of the lid w/ styrofoam. He kept them in laters of soaked newspaper(not shredded) and put cornmeal and coffee grounds on top. He kept them all summer like that and would catch more every night after a rain.
Friend Shortdrift gave me a tip 35 yrs(or so!) ago about keeping them in water once on the boat while on a fishing trip. Keeps them fat and lively, and most important, keeps the boat clean since they are "washed off"!(Soak only the amount you will be using in the near-term-they will drown over extended time-not all you take with you!)


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## hailtothethief

Ive tried the worms in water it works. I noticed in my perch tank some days they didnt eat the worms would still be alive the next day after being under water all night.


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## Star1pup

Seems like a good idea, but I would only take a few with me as it might not be a good idea to return these worms to the main habitat box.


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## Popspastime

Used to have an old concrete sink basin from a basement job. I used to fill it half way with a good topsoil and the other half with peat moss to keep it easy to work with my hands. Coffee grounds, grass clippings, leaves, all went in the mix, then corn meal under a layer of damp news paper. The top was made from a sheet of foam with holes in it. It was placed and stayed under some trees in total shade. I kept worms all year long.


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## multi species angler

I've read that it takes 10yrs for a nightcrawler to mature. When putting crawlers in water to swell them up and keep them alive for a day fishing, even in 90 degree temps, add ice to the water. Keep it cold.


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