# Need your guys opinion please



## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

My son who is 8 has shot his .22 for two years now and is a very mature responsible shooter who has better safety habits than some adults I've hunted with. With this being said I feel he is ready for his first shotgun.

My question to you guys is this, I was thinking about a single shot .410 due to the light recoil, but I was thinking that hunting would be very limited and too challenging for such a young and learning hunter. I do not want him to get discouraged, because I know a .410 is a challenge for most adults to hunt with. On the other hand I'm not sure if a 20 gauge would be too much gun for him, I do not want him to become gun shy.

We have waited for him to grow into the particular .410 model I have in mind and it fits him to a t. Do you guys think a youth model 20 gauge or maybe a .28 would be a better option as far and opening up more opportunities? I'm not sure what to do. Maybe let him shoot a youth model 20? What do you guys think? Thanks, Bob


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Any of them would be fine. I learned to hunt with a .410, and I feel it made me a better hunter - learning to get on the rabbit quicker was a necessity, and learning to stalk closer to the squirrel was a must. No complaints and no empty tables.  The .410 slug is also a very effective tool for deer.


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## Agitation Free (Jul 11, 2010)

I would take him to a sporting goods store or a gun show and let him handle some youth guns. See how it fits him. If he can aim, shoulder and handle the gun well, I would go for a 20ga. If he's of average size for an 8 year old, I don't see a problem. JMO. Good hunting to you and your son!


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

If he can handle a 20, I would go that way instead of a 410. My son wounded squirrels if they were high in the trees because the pattern spread too thin. I di dnot like the idea of wounded game. Switching to a 20 solved the problem.

He used an older 22 mag over 20 gauge . The 20 barrel will take up to a 3" mag. He started using regular low brass 20 gauge ammo.

He is now 28 and it is still his favorite squirrel, rabbit, groundhog, deer gun.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

All in all you know your Son better than anyone on here. Personally (since he IS a responsible shooter) i would go with an H&R 20g single shot (the shotgun I learned on). That way he can get a good feel for not just bird/small game hunting but also buck shot/slugs. With that being said, you also have to figure the size of your Boy vs the size of shot being used. The only reason i say that is bc all kids differ in size and if your boy isnt "big" enough or ready (not saying he isnt) to handle a 20g then i would stick with a 410. Either way good shooting/huting, and am glad to see a father showing his son the ropes of responsible shooting and firearms!.


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

My first was a 410 single shot and I killed countless rabbits, quail and even a pheasant or two


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

I am a proponent of the 20 gauge as a first shotgun. I feel the .410 has too many limiting factors for young shooters. Its only benefit is the recoil, but with low recoil shot shells (sold by several ammo makers) the 20ga is comparable. More shot load (= more pellets and denser pattern) and the availabiliy of more choices in ammo for different game/types of hunting get the nod from me. If buying a youth gun, be sure to invest in a design or manufacturer that can be converted to a full size stock. NEF and many manufacturers of pump models offer adult sized stocks to upgrade in the future.


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## 7thcorpsFA (Mar 6, 2010)

I'll chime in for the 20ga. It was my first, and I still prefer it today for small game. 410s are real cool little guns, but are a little weak at times. Just my humble opinion.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

i,ll give you my opinion and thats all it is. because you know if your son can handle the 20 or not. if he,s just not big and strong enough for the 20, then i would get him the 410. i know you have to concider the cost of getting the 410 now and then a 20 in a couple of years. but you should be able to get most if not all your money back. so i would just let his ability to handle the gun make my choice for me. i had let my sons shoot my 22 until they turned 10, thats when i got them muzzleloaders and started taking them deer hunting. i got my first son a small 45 cal. then when my other son got 10 i got him a small 50 cal. then a couple of yrs later we started shotgun deer hunting. my oldest got a 20 auto. and i had an old rem 1100 16 ga. so i cut a section of the stock out and got a slide on recoil pad for my youngest. but i think your son sounds plenty old enough for a shotgun for small game. and maby even deer hunting as long as he has good adult supervision. and it sounds like he has that also. i believe you may be able to use a 410 in indiana now for deer hunting, but i am not sure. and i dont know about ohio. but if you plan on deer hunting i would find out. looking at my 8 yr old grand son, he is just not big enough to handle a 20. so if i was getting him a shotgun right now i would go ahead and get him the 410. but thats him. then maby upgrade to a good 20 auto in a few yrs. then he can use it the rest of his life if he wants to. you also want to think about recoil, you want him to enjoy what he is doing. right?? just my thoughts. just be careful and have fun.
sherman


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## PapawSmith (Feb 13, 2007)

I say .410 or 28ga. You want your kid to be a shooter not a blaster. Let him learn to target and kill as opposed to just spraying lead in the general direction IMO. My 16 and 15 year old daughters and 10 year grand daughter bird hunted last fall/winter all with .410 doubles and O/U's and did outstanding. My 21 year old daughter, who is a hell of a shooter, always backed them up with her 12 or 20 guns and I did as well with my .410 (which is my preferred gun for birds smaller than pheasant and pen raised pheasant). .410 and 28 bore guns are exceptional hunting guns when in the hands of a capable shooter, and that is what I would encourage you to teach your boy to be. I personally would opt for a SXS or O/U over a single shot. .410 is a good bit easier to find than 28ga but a guy in the market place has a 28ga O/U Stevens, I believe, for a fair price. You teach a kid to be proficient with a small bore and he will tear it up later in the larger bores. This is just my opinion and personal experience. I love bird hunting with my kids, have fun with yours.


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## LEJoe (Jun 27, 2006)

The gun of choice should be the one that he will be most comfortable with. This will let him enjoy the time he has spent out in the field or on the range with his Dad. You guys will be making memories here... everything else like bag limits, total scores, and the like mean very little in comparison to that.

Thanks for asking this question. This place needs more Dad's like you! Your son has a very promicing future. Good job and good luck.
Stay safe,
Lake Erie Joe


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I believe I too would opt for a 20 and find some light recoil loads or even load your own. The kids grow very fast as we all know and if you bought a 410 I would think that he would be out of it within a couple of years anyway and you would then be opting for the 20. But with the light loads you are not much more than the 410. But if money was no obstacle I suppose you could go 410 now knowing that you would be only in it for a couple of years.

I know some hunt deer even with 410's but personally I don't think it is enough gun. If it were me and I bought the 410 I would probably never intend to use it on deer.


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

Let your Son "Shoulder" different Guns in any Gun Shop that you go to. Just about 10 seconds of "Shouldering" per Gun. Give him short rest breaks between Firearms of about 2 Minutes. You don't want him to get tired out. If a Gun fits him in .410 and feels good to him, try the same Gun in 20 Gauge. If he can handle the weight and balance of the 20 Gauge, get the Gun in 20 Gauge. Low Base Shells for Starters - but in the future - High Base Shells. A Combo Gun (Bird Barrel + Slug Barrel) may be the ticket. It all depends on the Child. It's possible that his first Gun may not work out for him - and you will have to buy him something else in the near future. Good Luck!


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## Fish_Heads (Jun 2, 2008)

Just our past experience.......the youth single shot 20 gauge guns kick like a mule. Got my son a new Rossi combo gun with the 20 gauge & the .22 rifle barrels. That gun in 20 gauge will hurt you, even with light loads.

The next season I cut down a stock & fitted it to my 870 12 gauge & it kicked less & he liked it better.

Couple years later & he's nearly full grown & has his own 12 gauge now.

Get the .410 & let him learn to shoot accurately & then move him up.

Fish


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## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

Thank you for your input guys. I will take him back to the store and see what fits and go from there. I have a few friends with youth model guns. I may shoot a few and see if I feel that it is too much gun for my son.

He mostly wants to hunt pheasant rabbit and squirrel so I thought that maybe a 410 would be a stretch for pheasant but maybe not ( pen raised ). I'll just have to see if I can get ahold of a youth model for him to try before buying one. I'll keep you posted as to what we decide.

Again thank you for your input, I appreciate it.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I'll add my two cents too and hope that you can learn from my mistake.

My son who is now 12 loved shooting when he was between the ages of 8 and 10. I stated him off with an New England .22 bolt action. From there I got him a Mossberg 410. He loved shooting both. When he was 10 I went out and bought an H&R Topper 20 youth. That's where my biggest hunting related mistake ever was made. We went down to our dads cabin for some target practice and squirel hunting soon after that. My son was so excited about shooting the 20 ga. He put a number 8 shot UMC Dove load in and fired it off. His smile went right to fear and finally the tears started rolling down. That gun with #8 UMC Dove load kicked like a mule. I couldnt beleive it. I grabbed it soon after thing calmed down and shot it. It didn't bruise me like it did him but it felt every bit like a standard 12 ga. My brother in law couldn't beleive it so he shot it. He was just as shocked as I was. We ended up trying the UMC Dove load, Remmington Sluggers (WOW!), Federal low brass and even the Winchester low recoil AAA clay loads. Let me just say even with those that gun kiced way to hard for the average 8,9,10 or prob even 12 year old kid. 

Now, I'm feeling like the worst dad on earth. My son now wanted NOTHING to do with shooting, let alone hunting and it was 100% my fault. I should have done more research I guess. Let me back up a bit..... the Mossberg 410 wasnt a youth model so it was a bit long for him. I traded that in for the Topper, so I couldnt even have him go back to the 410.

We talked for a bit over the next couple weeks or whatever. This time I researched guns and went looking around. Most articles pointed me to a Remmington 20 gauge youth. I edned up getting that gun as it fit Andrew to a "T". In fact, I paid somewhere around $450 and got the fully rifled youth combo. Andrew seemed excited about it. By now it was two weeks before youth gun season. My son said that he wanted to go for youth season. If I recall corectly I took a few days off work and we went to my dads cabin to get ready for the youth hunt. This time I took the gun out and showed Andrew that the recoil was low and all that. He froze up. His mind went right back to the H&R Topper and how bad it kicked. I was not about to force shooting or hunting onto my son so after a few minutes of me getting mad ($450 for the gun, around $20 a box for some German low recoil 20 ga slugs, and not to mention the clothing and misc items) I told him that he could go back to shooting whenever he felt like it.

Sadly, earlier this year I sold that gun here on OGF. My son is now 12 and has no desire to shoot anything but his H&R .22. 

Do youself a favor get him a 410 so that he can enjoy it or spend the extra money and buy something like the Remmington 20 ga youth gun, anything but one of those 20 ga single shots. (Oh by the way, as someone else mentioned those Rossi 20 ga single shot youth guns have a far worse rep for recoil than the H&R's.)


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## BigDub007 (Apr 1, 2010)

I belive a .410 is to small...If he is a responsible shooter mabey get him a .20 ga. I would not buy him a single shot becuase they kik like a mule...If you have the extra money around get him a semi auto for reduced recoil...Think about it the kid will have the gun for the rest of his life ...He will never grow out of it. If you are worried about him have more than one bullet in the gun then only give him one at a time...My father did the same for me and to this day is still my favorite gun. Also you can borrow it and have a hek of a bunnie gun :]


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## arrowsnflies (Jun 8, 2011)

I'll add my $0.02 to this...
As said a few times here, a 20ga single-shot would kick too much for an 8 year old so I wouldn't even think about that one. Even a small 20ga pump like a 870 youth or the Mossberg bantam could be too much gun for an 8 year old. Depends on his size, handling the gun itself and not just the recoil. Will he be walking through fields all day long? A pump or semi could get pretty heavy by the end of a morning hunt. 
A single-shot H&R 410 with a fullchoke barrel was my first shotgun about that age and it taught me a TON of shooting/hunting practices. I believe that gun made me the shooter/hunter I am today. Get it with the first shot first and foremost. Made me pass on questionable shots waiting for the perfect shot with my one round, resulting in hopefully less wounded game. Also, due to the limited range of a 410, made me more patient to wait for game to get in close, and helped my stalking skills. I took countless squirrels and rabbits with that little gun. Even dropped my fair share of woodcocks (gotta be quick!) and woodducks (jump shooting off of creeks) with it. 3" #4s is what I used for almost everything. Couldn't believe when I heard my Dad sold that gun at a gunshow when I was off at college. I would have bought it from him! I bought an H&R 20ga a few years back to try to "replace" my old 410 and it wasn't the same. I was shocked by how much it kicked, I wouldn't let any small statured person shoot it without warning them first. 

Here's a few pros/cons I can see for both:
Single shot 410
Pros: Cheap gun, light & easy to handle for a small person, singleshot makes him focus on hitting in the first shot and not filling the air with lead hoping he hits something.
Cons: very important to learn your affective range and limit your shots. Ammo choices less than a 20 and the right load may be harder to find. Could be frustrating learning how to hunt with just 1 shot so I'd watch him and if he gets discouraged, start looking into a repeater before he loses the desire to hunt. A little light for deer, geese, or turkeys (if he plans on that) unless they are real close. He'll grow out of it in a few years and want a 20ga repeater. Who didn't at that age?
Multi-shot 410 (double, pump, or semi-auto)
Pros: heavy gun so harder to handle but lighter recoil. Multi shot for followups
Cons: harder to find. Cost more. Could make him dependant on follow-up shots versus focusing him on hitting on the first. 
Youth-model multi-shot 20 (double, pump, semi-auto)
Pros: will cover his hunting needs for a lot longer than the 410 will. Greater ammo choices and availability than a 410. Low-brass 20s out of a heavier repeating gun will recoil about the same as a light singleshot 410. Plenty enough power for anything deer sized and smaller. Makes (what I think) is the ultimate home-defense weapon for you if that interests you at all. Small little youth-size pump 20ga loaded with buckshot inside a home will take down any zombie that tries to get to you or your family. Or simply with a model like the Bantam that has adjustable LOP, you could use it in a pinch for hunting whatever.
Cons: gonna cost more. May still be too much gun for an 8 year old (will he be able to pump it?). Again - could create dependancy on follow-up shots. There's nothing from stopping you from blocking the magazine on a pump though and make him use it as a single-shot (now that's an idea I really like). 

If it were me... 
Just a basic shotgun for my son to learn and hunt with - 410 singleshot.
Looking for a more versatile gun that you can use or don't want to replace in a few years (assuming he could handle the gun in the field for hours now) - Youth model 20ga pump with some type of adjustable stock to grow with him.

Hope this helps.


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## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

Wow guys great suggestions. This is a tough choice! I'm thinking it may be another year before we deer hunt. I was thinking about letting him sit in on a few bowhunts this year, but maybe wait another year to let him hunt deer. Plus that will give him another year to practice. I've still yet to go to the store and try any 20 gauge youth models. Maybe I'll have time this weekend. Again thank you for the great input.


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## mao10 (Apr 23, 2009)

I will tell you from personal experience that a single shot 20 is not the best choice for him. My dad bought me an H&R 20ga as my first shotgun and it kicked like a mule. I was a small kid and pulling the trigger scared the absolute crap out of me. After about a half a year of recoil abuse he realized that the gun just was not a good fit and picked up a youth model 11-87 and that gun was sweet to shoot. It was pretty expensive but it has since been passed down the ranks to two other siblings so it has more than paid for itself. If the 410 is a good fit then go with it but if your son is on the smaller side and you decide to go with the 20 I suggest looking at a quality autoloader. Just my $.02


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## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

Ok so we went to Dicks and looked at the limited selection they had. I had him check out the 20 gauge and it is too big. This makes my decision way easier. I think I will be going with a .410. I have two sons so It should get plenty of use out of it. He is currently hunting with a .22, so I think the .410 will open up some more opportunities. I appreciate all of your guy's time thank you.


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## leupy (Feb 12, 2007)

Wise choice, while I did not comment earlier I still love to hunt with my Winchester 42 which was made in 1956. I usually use 3" shells and have little problem with it being under powered. I went several years looking for this gun at a price I could afford, my only problem now is deciding which of the grandsons get it when I stop hunting. I hope they have to wait along time.


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## CasualFisherman (May 21, 2004)

I thought I would chime in as my oldest son just turned 9 this week and since dad could not wait until he was 12 to hunt, I have done a bit of research on the subject. He has hunted in a limited capacity the past two seasons and I can tell you your biggest obstacle is not the recoil but finding a gun that actually fits a child that age. My son is average to above average in size and I can tell you most will only have a LOP of about 11-12 inches. Most "youth" guns are still to big and lends to improper shouldering of a firearm and worsens felt recoil. Three years ago, I could not find anything in the market with a small enough LOP standard though Mossberg has come out with a Super bantam with a 12" LOP in 410 that is about right. I ended up making a stock for a 410/22 Rossi combo. Count on making a proper fitting firearm first. A 20ga auto does not kick much more than a 410 single. I have since added a Charles daly youth 20 that has a 13" LOP but at just under 6lbs it is still a bit big to be comfortable for the field. He has no issue in summer clothes with the recoil at the range. If you get the fit right, felt recoil will not be as much of a factor. My son shoots a 50 cal muzzleloader all day long now that I have also custom made one that fits him properly. (60 grn loads)

Also the 410 vs 20 debate will always continue. My son routinely hits 15-20 out of 25 clay birds with his 410 and is getting better every time out. I still hunt with a 410 90% of the time for just about everything. I do not feel at all handicapped with it versus a different gauge and It does not tear up the game near as bad. The one thing I will say is that the cost of 410 ammo is significantly more if you do not reload. Your son will only get better by shooting alot and if you do not reload, the 20 may be more economical in the long run. I personally prefer the 410 for youths but I also reload and can customize loads to what we are shooting.

Here is my son at 7 with his "customized" 410.


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## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

Thanks for the info CasualFisherman, and what a great picture!


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## camotoe (Aug 13, 2007)

Depends on what game you're after. Doves in tight quarters, I'd opt for the .410. Rabbits or squirrels, I'd opt for the 20. Twenty seems more versatile overall, and would most likely be one he would use more freq. as he got older. 410's are cool, but not a must have IMO. Good luck.!#


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