# killing carp for fun, as pests



## leckig

Hi guys,

I have not posted here for a while, I have a carping break now, until the Spring.

I was reading Bass newsletter the other day and these guys talked about catching carp accidentally while bassing. Most of them said that they kill all carp they catch this way. I got pretty upset and posted, saying that this is plainly wrong and bad. Everybody started arguing that carp is a pest, badbadbad, killlkillkill etc. They gave me all the research, statistics etc proving that carp is competing with so called "sport fish" and it seems they all dream about carp-free America. They completely cannot understand carp fishing.

What is wrong with these people? How do you talk with them? The easiest would be just to ignore them, but hey, they are killing animals for no good reason, this is as far from sport as it gets! Why people are so narrow-minded?


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## littleking

some people just have no idea about reality greg, you know that 

but unfortunately it is so. they do the same think with musky, bass fisherman hate them, they think musky tear up "THEIR" lake...


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## leckig

really? some people think musky is bad? Now why don't they consider themselves as the worst pest?


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## PAYARA

The majority of these carp 'statistics' are nothing more than pure 
propaganda!...You think its bad now,watch where it goes when carp
fishing becomes the giant in this nation!And bass are put on the back 
burner  One day it WILL happen!And the fish bigots will try to stop
it in everyway!They are afraid of anything that refects the carp in a
positive light!You should hear about all the flak In-Fisherman takes 
from fish bigots and bowhunters when they do positive shows and 
articles about carp and carp angling!

Things are just as bad if not worse in Australia!Another English 
colony full of carp haters!Makes me wonder what rubbed off on
South Africa that didn't in the US or Australia?Although carp
were originaly welcomed in the US!

One day carp will see the respect it has in Europe,here in the US.
The carp's popularity in Europe didn't happen over night,and it
will be a while yet before it reaches that status here.But it WILL
happen one day!You can count on that!


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## Salmonid

Maybe you should reply back and say that the Largemouth was probably introduced into the lake they are fishing and that the local shiner population has went to heck because of the LM bass population and because of the shiners first rights to the water as a true "Native" fish, you will soon begin a quest to make all lakes "Bass Free" by killing all you can catch, that way the shiners will be able to repopulate the lake. Im sure that post will get plenty of hits. Its poor logic they are using and most states have laws against the killing of any fish for reasons other then to eat them. ( unless the species is specifically noted for the watershed within the regs.) For example, its illegal to kill steelhead, browns or salmon just for the eggs but you would never know that by fishing our erie tribs....

I agree that some of the bass guys feel they own the publics waters and can decide for them selves better then the local fisheries biologists can the best way to improve there fishery.

Nuff said when it comes to talking to a brick wall.....
I deal with this argument all the time with the folks who are against the Gar which I so heavenly adore to catch and release... 

Salmonid


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## leckig

I mentioned the huge popularity of carp back home (in EU) and they replied this is only because there is no other sport fish in Europe, this is the only think we (Europeans) have left. Basically, they say that no one having a choice would target a carp which is stinky, EASY TO CATCH!!!, ugly etc. 

as you guys say - brick walls! And I cannot agree more with Payara - it will come here for sure. Probably sooner then we all think. It just requires some media attention. I often see that media are really ruling this country. If they say in TV that carp is a "sport fish", Wal-Mart will be full of warrior rods the very next day. 

Salmonid - you are perfectly right about Gar. This is yet more difficult to understand. I hope this summer I will be lucky and catch one, I know where to find them now.


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## BottomBouncer

If carp were doing soo much damage, my guess is that in the hundreds of years they've been in US waters, that there would be no damage left to do.....

I like bassin' as much as the next guy......I also like a good, long drawn out battle, which you won't get with bass. 

Once the meathunters have cleared out the small fish and the bass guys mount all the trophies.......they won't have much else to fish for....then maybe the carp won't seem so bad.


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## PAYARA

Bass anglers have absolutly NO clue!They think that the world 
revolves around Bass fishing!They have no idea that carp are 
indeed number one world wide in 'sport fishing' and most fish
consumed!

I love how these morons suggest that European waters are
'sess pools',over run with carp and other 'trash' cyprinids  
Most have no clue about the Pike,Trout,Perch,Zander,ect
All these species have survived hundreds and hundreds of
years with the 'invasive' non-native carp!(carp are not even
native to the bulk of Europe  Oh and by the way,most might 
soil themselves if they ever found out about that population 
of Largemouths that inhabit Spanish waters!

Salmonid-I agree with on the Gar!A very impressive native 
species that seems to get little respect!Iam looking to get into 
the BIG gar racket this year on my local lakes!Theres a sizable
population that time forgot!


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## ValleyTracker

Is bowfishing legal in Ohio, I remember it was big down south, guys would shoot carp and gar and throw them on the bank or in their gardens.


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## PAYARA

Unfortunately,yes it is


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## Master Angler

"Fish bigots"

That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time! 

Payara - your ardor for the carp is admirable. Carp are great fighters and very "smart" fish. I think that 99% of their image problem is that they can inhabit "marginal" waters and hence are considered marginal fish themselves. Given that they are non-native I would just assume see them eradicated but given that so many of are waterways are nearly ruined they are what we are left with and they are here to stay. I would rather have healthy aquatic ecosystems full of native fish but in the meantime I will continue to enjoy catching Mr. Carp is all his slimy, stinky glory. I wish Gar were more prevalent around Akron. Too cool IMO.


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## DaleM

Enough guys. lets not let this turn into a pissing match. Comments are fine but we don't need to let this get out of hand. We all have our favorite fish so enjoy what you like and let the other enjoy theirs. If this get out of hand I will close this thread.


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## gonefishing8807

i like fishing for bass but hopfully going to get my first carp this spring. how does a carp compete with "sport fish"? i'm confused


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## Ðe§perado™

Someone mention Bowfishing??


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## ValleyTracker

I've actually wanted to try Bowfishing, any tips Desperado??


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## luredaddy

I understand that carp are great sport fish. I fished for them 50 years ago, just to catch a big fish. I have always thought about stalking them with a fly rod, just thought! BUT, as a Musky fisherman at West Branch, it is unreal what they do to the weed beds there. I think it is a shame they are not good tablefare, they need to be thinned out. I know that is not what a carp specialist needs to hear, but... they are VERY destructive to the weed beds, especially when they are spawning. The weed beds are they key, for the Muskies, Bass, Pike, walleyes, etc...because they hold the hold the bait fish.
Just my opinion, based upon a lot of time on the water, over the last 50 years.


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## ValleyTracker

Good point Luredaddy, not to mention the destruction they do to nests of bedding "sportfish".


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## PAYARA

lure-Iam sorry,but you can not be serious about carp destroying
weed beds at West Branch?True,there are alot of carp in WB,but
I would say the hords of boats due far more dammage to the weed
than any carp!Theres not 'much' weed growth at West Branch to
begin with anyway!?And surely NO decline in baitfish(that includes
carp!)

And I fully understand where your comming from reguarding the
destruction of weed beds,ect and its effects on other species.
But the fact is,if carp had even the slightest impact on the weeds
and food source of the 'game' fish in WB.The lake would not be one 
of the most rated lakes in the state for Muskie,and the outlook for 
species such as Walleye,Bass,Catfish,ect would be poor!But I think 
we can agree that its FAR from that?


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## PAYARA

Valley,..you bring up one of the great carp myths!While its true
that carp occasionally feed in the nests of other fish,studies on
carp stomach contents taken during spring have shown few eggs
in their systems.Its a fact that sunfish and crayfish consume far
more 'game' fish eggs on a whole,than carp!The myth is that carp
go looking specificly for 'game' fish eggs,ect.Pure NONSENCE!


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## tpet96

> Given that they are non-native I would just assume see them eradicated


MA....

I've always found that line quite funny, and hear tons of people say that. But then they don't know how to answer the following question. What exactly constitutes non-native, or native fish, and at what expense of time has to pass before they can be considered "native". As far as I can tell, there are many other gamefish species that are not "native" to the Ohio river / lake systems....should they be erradicated because they are non-native as well? It's all in how one perceives a species, and how they are brought up to believe what is right or isn't right. Not trying to pick a fight....just trying to see your side of the story


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## gonefishing8807

i also have something to help support PAYARA i fish turkeyfoot in a place called the bones is were i seen alot of carp spawn and yes they destroy weeds but in about 2 weeks the weeds are thicker then ever


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## luredaddy

PAYARA,
I am quite serious about the impact of carp on the weed beds at West Branch. I average 4 days a week on West Branch from the middle of May to the end of November. I can verify the decline in weed beds at WB over the last 5 years, and the ODNR will verify the decline in the bait fish there. I am all to familiar with the impact of skiers on the ecosystem, including bank erosion at WB. If CARP are your favorite fish, I understand your defensive position. Time on the water at West Branch, since 1997 when I started fishing there SERIOUSLY, has taught me a great deal about the impact of many things on the ecosystem at WB, including CARP.


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## RiverRat

If carp were so bad to water quality and/or "gamefish" populations/quality it would of shown a bigger impact YEARS and YEARS ago.....it has not and carp are no different than the native suckers species and Buffalo carp species. Carp have been here since the late 1800's....all the carp in our waters are now NATIVE..get used to them, they are going no where and will be here after all the so called "gamefish" species die off from over harvest, pollution, ect.

Ignorance and wifes tales are funny to hear, as the saying goes..."only in America"!!


And to quote Al Linder..."carp are king"

Scott


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## luredaddy

RiverRat,
I agree, the carp will be the last living thing in water, and the cockroach will be the last living thing on terra firma.
John


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## PAYARA

lure-Its possible that there is some other factors contributing
to the decline in weeds and Baitfish at WB?Carp can't take the 
entire blame for the situation?Even if they did play a role.

Also,Is it a fact that the decline in baitfish is a direct result of 
the lack in weeds?Baitfish,such as shad can and do thrive in lakes
totaly devoid of weeds.


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## luredaddy

PAYARA,
There are many things that have an impact on weed growth at WB. High water in the spring, reduces the amount of light entering the water, that curtails weed growth. We have had some unreal high water in the last 7 years. Pulling down WB to really low winter levels hurts weed growth. There have been a number of falls and winters in the last 7 years that WB has been pulled down to very low levels. The zebras have a direct impact on weed growth , when they choke off bottom growing areas. WB is infested with them. Power boats and spawning carp chop up existing weed beds at WB. Seven years ago there were extensive weed beds at WB, and Leesville for that matter. ALL of the factors listed have helped curtail weed growth. I am also HALF believing, that the weedbeds may have been poisoned by the state. I have NO proof of that, but I know the skiiers and boaters constantly complain about the weeds. Seven years ago , there were extensive weed beds at WB, not now.
John


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## BradU20

RiverRat said:


> carp are no different than the native suckers species and Buffalo carp species.


They are different, in that they aren't native. They compete directly with the fish you mention above. You don't hear anything about them because there is no hardcore group that fishes for redhorse or buffalo and wants to stick up for them.




RiverRat said:


> Carp have been here since the late 1800's....all the carp in our waters are now NATIVE..get used to them, they are going no where and will be here after all the so called "gamefish" species die off from over harvest, pollution, ect.


True, they aren't going anywhere, but native they will never be. Well established but never native. Does this make them bad, not necessary. Obviously other fish have found ways to thrive in the precense of carp. 

I should state first that I am totally agaisnt the senseless killing of carp for ...any living thing for that matter. I respect all of the carp anglers on here and their opinions. I feel very strongly about native ecosystems, though. As others have noted many of our "gamefish" are non-natives in a lot of waters. I honestly don't support this either. For example, I have seen what stocked redear sunfish can do to native pumpkinseed populations in northern lakes. Don't even get me started on trout/salmon/walleye stockings. 

Hey, we all like to catch fish. Everyone has their own ideas of what makes a trophy or a good day on the water. All fish are great and I'm jsut glad to live in a land with such great a diversity of fish to go after. 

Brad


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## PAYARA

Lure--Guess who eats the heck out the Zebras at WB  

Anyway,You make some good points that I can fully agree with.
I can buy that carp played a role in the current situation at WB.
But like I said,the definatly can not take all the blame!

BTW-Did you notice any negative effects after the big drought 5yrs
ago.When the water waa WAY down,for like the entire summer?


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## liquidsoap

ok well i dont really belong here as i dont no much about carp, but i love those fish, there easy to catch, fun to catch, and bait is easy to get
i couldnt ask for a better fish, well steelhead maybe but ive seen carp overpopulated in deep holes at rocky, i think they are good for lakes and rivers, i dont really see any harm being done, there pretty fish to me at least, they dont smell either, also id have to disagree with the weed growth thing my cuzin has got a private pond overflowing with carp, guess what else its over flowing with?? sea weed 
and for all those people who kill carp and gar, sham on you, i fish for bass all the time, and i am delighted to reel in one of those big boys, did u ever think for a second on what you are doing killing fish...... i am not trying to go P.E.T.A on you but man that is mean, and why so you can pull in another 2lb. bass, ha id rather get a big carp any day


plus ill throw another roomer on ya, there bottom feeders and clean the bottoms


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## BradU20

RiverRat: Take back what I said about the buffalo, checked out your pics and you have some dandys in there. So I guess there aren't _many _ who care about buffalo. 

Brad


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## luredaddy

PAYARA,
Yes, with the early low levels, the weed growth was hindered. I believe WB is just starting to comeback as far as weed growth is concerned. Weeds were better this year, than in the last five. Many Musky fishers who cast the weeds, have left WB. The laydowns, humps, rip rap, and rock piles still provide cover. For the first time in a number of years, I caught Muskies, suspended over open water, 40'. I am as much concerned over the declining numbers of shad, as I am the weeds.


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## BradU20

What about the other fish legal for bowfishing? So our native buffalo, gar, and suckers are trash also? There are over a dozen species I can think of off hand legal for bowfishing. I guess one man's trash is anothers treasure huh? I don't even need to comment on the rest of your statements and I hope a moderator takes note.

Brad


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## Ðe§perado™

I have had this argued over and over and listen to all the crys about the carp. Bowfishing doesn't hurt the population what so ever. People treat them as pets and some like me love to shoot them. As it was said, one man's tresure is another man's trash. The DNR here in Ohio see them as a problem and use bowfishing as a tool to control them. I have tried to talk to the carp lovers and they seem to never show up when we have an outing. .(PAYARA  ) I have even showed up to carp fishing outings and no one and I mean no one cries about all the dead carp. They tell me that they know they need to be controled and I have nothing against bowfishing. But will just keep beating a dead horse. You guys seen what happen in several states when they tried to ban bowfishing. The State DNR seem to think it needs to stay. But I will step down now so we can hear more from the people that think crap and going to all be gone from bowfisherman.


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## DaleM

I deleated his post and cleaned up yours brad. I hope this ends this type of discussion. AS I said before keep it nice and it will stay opened.


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## BottomBouncer

luredaddy said:


> PAYARA,
> I am quite serious about the impact of carp on the weed beds at West Branch. I average 4 days a week on West Branch from the middle of May to the end of November. I can verify the decline in weed beds at WB over the last 5 years, and the ODNR will verify the decline in the bait fish there. I am all to familiar with the impact of skiers on the ecosystem, including bank erosion at WB. If CARP are your favorite fish, I understand your defensive position. Time on the water at West Branch, since 1997 when I started fishing there SERIOUSLY, has taught me a great deal about the impact of many things on the ecosystem at WB, including CARP.


Okay, you've been fishing for 50 years. Fishing at WB since 1997 and in the last five years you've noticed a decline in baitfish and weedbeds? I'm pretty sure carp have been in there way longer than five years. And just possibly...MAYBE...all those musky COULD have a SLIGHT impact on the baitfish population......*laying on the sarcasm pretty thick*

And about those so called "gamefish".....is it any fish that hits goofy brighltly colored, noisy lures considered a "gamefish"?


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## BottomBouncer

Oh and as far as the gar......there is an oxbow type of lake that I have fished that has absolute huge gar in it....and they are more than willing to take town a minnow under a bobber.....keeping one on the hook seems a bit of a challenge.....

I've seen one come to the surface out towards the middle that resembled a small submarine coming up....... I've thought about setting up a sturdy combo with braided line just to fish this body of water....gotta have something to bury that hook...


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## The Kernel

Being a 'non-native' species (I'm from England) myself I find this thread very interesting. I have to ask if anyone has real scientific evidence that carp do the damage they are claimed do at West branch..or if these are assumptions based on anglers hearsay and folklore? I ask in good faith and the reason I ask is that from my perspective it seems that fish 'prejudice' for want of a better word, seems to stem from cultural rather than scientific origins. Each nation has its whipping boy fish...for example, in England, the most recently (25 years) introduced non-native species is the Walleye, it is referred to as a Zander over there and this fish is loathed by many anglers and killed on capture and slung up the bank and labelled vermin...and it is also blamed for every conceivable fishery ill..just like some do to the carp here! And carp are almost a national treasure over there! In japan it is the Bass that it is loathed by many and the carp is considered an almost sacred fish...

For me over here I am as an angler reborn. I am a like a boy again filled with wonder at each new species of fish that I have never seen before...catfish, bass, suckers, drum, buffallo..they are all the same to me.


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## RiverRat

Man i always miss all the fun ... ..Dale i had NOTHING to do with this.

I would love more than anything to post my thoughts on this subject..but seeing as the bow hunter showed up...it would get ugly fast.

This topic is way worse than religous or political topics....and gets closed down just as fast.

See ya around guys.

Scott


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## The Kernel

....and a should add..the bigger the better! If anyone wants to show me where you can catch monster Gar please pm me...


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## PAYARA

Desperado--Are you serious?I have asked you before...WHAT
on earth would make you think that I would turn up at ANY of
your outings???What are you possibly going to teach me about
your 'methods', that are going to impress me or change my view
of you or your 'sport'?I mean honestly Des.What am I to gain
by going to any of your outings???Except wintness a mindless
massacre of the fish that I have been fasinated by for well
over half my life???Thanks for the invite,but I think I'll pass!

And just for the record Des.YOU have NEVER met ME at any
of the CAG/OGF outings!Iam not one of these 'two faced'
internet crusaders who are afraid of healthy,heated,live
discussion!I will debate this topic untill the cows come 
home! .....ANYTIME!


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## PAYARA

Mark mate,I have just the places for those monster gar  

I am doing all the math right now!


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## DarbyMan

I've been following this discussion and find it fasinating! I fish on the Darby's a lot and occasionally throw my fly into a school of carp. I've only caught a few but I do like to catch them. The battle on a fly rod is epic. But at the same time I feel there is a reason why the Great Lake states are frantically putting up barriers to keep them out of the Great Lakes. I don't know all the science behind it but putting up electronic barriers in the Illinios river tells me something. 
Either way carp are here to stay. I enjoy catching a wide variety of fish and I want to keep it that way. If that means less carp than so be it. 
And no I do not leave carp on the bank to die. I return them to the water just as I would do for a smallie or rock bass.


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## RiverRat

" If anyone wants to show me where you can catch monster Gar please pm me..."

Choke Canyon Res. in Texas...Aligator gar to 279 lbs. have been taken there.
Used to be a big population of them up and down the Mississippi river...but have been over-harvested down to a small population there now.
Florida also has a big population of big Aligator gar....here in Ohio we only have SMALL gar....theres no such thing as a big spotted gar.

Greg, read your new signature..i have to say that there IS such a thing as "trash" fish...MY PERSONAL list includes Gar, LM bass, W-eye, S-eye and sauger...i say keep all of them you want...makes more room for "other" species.

Scott


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## RiverRat

Darbyman, your think of a completely different fish, the ones they are trying to stop from entering lake Erie are the BIG-HEAD CARP. NOT common carp!!

Ive caught a ton of carp from the Darby(both of them) and grew up fishing those streams....my grandfather biggest fish ever was a carp, my Father told me it was bigger than his PB and guessed it at over 50 lbs. as he saw it in person...now my fathers biggest carp was 43 lbs. from the Darby, weighed on bathroom scales.
The Darby is one of the cleanest streams in this State..great smallmouth fishery...and they have lived with carp in that stream for a LONG time...no ill effects there because of carp!!

Scott


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## DarbyMan

My apologies river rat. As i said I'm not to up on the science of carp. I'm glad to hear that you have Darby in your blood. They are wonderful streams that support a variety of wildlife including carp. Thanks for the correction.


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## PAYARA

Darby-your confusing Common Carp with Silver,Black,Big Head 
'Carp'.These are the speices they are trying to control in the 
Great Lakes.

Scott-We have 2 species of gar in Ohio.Longnose and Spotted.
Both are very impresive fish when adults!And both reach lengths
over 4ft!Longnose over 5ft!And can weigh over 25lbs!These are
not BIG?????Granted these are no Alligator Gar,but still adults are
very impressive when on the bank!


There are NO 'trash' fish!!!


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## RiverRat

No biggie Darby, just didnt want you getting the idea that our common carp were the ones being talked about in the paper and on the news.

Yea i grew up 3/4 of a mile from the darbys...cut my teeth on stream wading and have fished for smallies over 17+ yrs.
Ive fished some of the best streams in our State...Darby's are #1 & #2 in my book.

I still visit them often(mostly winter fishing) and there only 10 mins drive..some of my greatest fishing memories are of fishing them 2 streams. 100's and 100's of smallies per season from there..including 8 fish ohio awards. My fishing buddy looks out his back window to Big Darby....geez what a life!

Scott


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## RiverRat

Greg, i landed 2 Gar this past weekend on the Ohio river that both went 40"+....maybe 10 lbs.....Gar give hardly any fight on even normal gear..i think there a waste of time..no fun at all.
That "record" for Ohio....i know excatly where it came from and know where sonme of the bowfishing records were taken...I could put you onto some of the biggest Gar around...but if you think you can find & catch a gar close to the 20 lb. mark.....sad to say your luckier to find that 40 lb carp first.

Yes Gar are TRASH FISH..i think the bow anglers should shoot more of them..my personal opinion of course.

Scott


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## PAYARA

I have some of the biggest gar in the state 6 miles from my 
house! Hooking them of course id going to be tough,well
accually straying from carp is going to be the real challenge!

Also,I know gar are not the greatest 'fighters',or one the heaviest
fish to catch.But to be perfectly honest,I want to catch a few
big specimens just to handle them!For the sake of checking 
them out.They are IMO a very interesting species that I have 
kept in aquariums for years.They are living dinosours,man! 
Complete with poison roe!  Very interesting!

You should see how HUGE our gar species are in Asian aquarium
circles....their BIG fans of them!

So Scott,I take it you hate the Bowfin as well???


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## RiverRat

Nah, Bowfin are cool...ive only caught a few in Ohio...my biggest ones came from my parents lake in Fl....many in the teens. All caught on live or fresh cut Golden Shiners.
I guess if we had them in large numbers here i wouldnt like them..they would be hated just like Gar then. Atleast Bowfin jump and fight pretty good...far better than any Gar ive ever caught.


Gar are funny to handle bare handed..ive been bitten before..they'll reach around and get ya like a snake or aligator. Armor plated beyound belief..bullet proof(litteraly)..a .22 cal. bullet will skip right off of them, but thats another story..lol.
I bet you could make one heck of a tough boot out of them..lol.

Scott


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## PAYARA

Yeah,Bowfin ARE pretty cool.Thats another fish I want to
target localy this year.As all the lakes in the area contain them.
And 2 in particular have a good population of Bowfin going 5-10lb+!
I seen a pic of a 10lber and it was just massive!I thought the 6lber
I seen (biggest I have seen in person)was huge!I mean for the most
part the do seem to run small.

I Have seen great pics of those 10lb+ Bowfin from FL,GA,AL,ect
They are very impressive looking!


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## flathunter

I am not a gar lover but the below fish I caught last year was 52 inches long..This fish put up a good fight on a ultra light rig, it made several leaps out of the water..Now any heavier tackle and it would not have been much of a fight.


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## RiverRat

Yea the bowfin are thick down in Fl. i know the bass anglers down there hated them very badly..i think they called them dogfish or mudfish...i know they regulally killed them.
One of the funniest things ive ever seen while fishing down there....the housing developement my parents lived in had a big lake that ran through the area by a chain of lakes and canals..the end lake backed up to a swamp . I caught many of my biggest Gators(not the gar kind), biggest specks(crappie) and bluegils from that end lake..but it had a large population of big gar in it too....well i was fishing it one day when this truck pulls up on the other side and 2 guys get out with their gear, heavy duty baitcasting rigs and slip floats..and 2 buckets full of wild golden shiners(i could tell they were wild because of the trouble they had trying to catch them in the bucket..very lively baits)..i knew they were after LM bass.
Well it didnt take long for the show to start....as i knew from fishing these chains of lakes, that the last lake was a big NO NO for live baits..artificals only because of the gar & gators.
Well i heard one guy yell..."there it goes"...i look over to see his big float shoot accrossed the water then go under..this guy picks up the rod and sets it hard....BAM busts his butt because there was no fish on the other end...swing and a miss..lol.
Well these 2 went through a few dozen expensive shiners and never figured it out, they changed rigs and everything but couldnt seem to put a single hook into these "bass"...lmao...i was cryin. Well after the bait was gone, they packed up and headed off....i never did see those guys back in there..lol. They probably wasted about $25-$30 worth of shiners to Gar.

I always had a good supply of live bait when i lived down there or was visiting....i'd keep a few buckets tied up by my parents house...the spotted bullheads were the only cats in the lake and they reached 3-6 lbs...so bowfin and LM's were my only choice...except when a new gator showed up out of the swamp that had'nt met me or my Ohio catfish gear yet..man you want to talk about the best fights ive ever had on rod&reels..geez us! I think my biggest in Fl. was a tad bit over 7' 120 lbs. but our trip to santee cooper(santee pooper as we called it after that) i caught gators to 13'...17 lb test main line, Shimano LC baitrunner, 11' St. Croix surf rod...ask Buckeyefishingnut about that, he was there and we have pictures of the fight....fishing at NIGHT with gators everywhere.

Scott


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## Salmonid

Riverrat, Im not going to argue about the fact the Longnose Gar are not the best fighters with heavy tackle but as Flathunter can attest to, a large gar on light tackle isquite a challenge. The do jump sometimes and when they do its spectacular and they have long, fast runs that will test any spinning reels drag system but what I like is how when you get them close, and reach for them or try to dip a cradle under them, they go nuts with one more final run that is equal to any gamefish. I agree, with heavy tackle they are not a challenge, but on lighter tackle, they are pretty cool to mess with, I catch many and am still looking for one Jacks size,! that is a monster.

I usually sight fish to them with the fly rod and tye my own special rope fly which works great for them, You can use these with a spinning rod as well.

Now, Onto Bowfin, I have been trying to add one to my Ohio Life list with the flyrod for the last 2 years, I know where to go and in Akron, you are near the states largest population of them but dowm here in SW Ohio, they are very rare, Ive seen/heard of more American eels then Bowfin down here. 
The bowfin is also quite aggressive and has some nasty teeth so be sure to lip them with a full leather glove, they fight hard with short powerful runs a lot like a carp, never jump and I think the fight is pretty decent for there size. But if your chasing them with big heavy gear,again, they are not large enough to test heavy equipment ( less then 10 lbs in Ohio, closer to 2-5 lbs on the norm)

Both are great fish who have lived with us for 10 million years and evolution hasnt changed them, giving them both air bladders so they can live in the most stagnant of waters and skin as tough as nails. Oh yeah, if they havent wiped out your precious bass fishery in the last 10 thousand years, its unlikely they will do now..... They are both an important part ofthe ecosystem and should never be removed or killed for the wrong reasons.

Salmonid= Protector of Gar and "fins"


----------



## Lewzer

> Yes Gar are TRASH FISH..i think the bow anglers should shoot more of them..my personal opinion of course.


 Interesting. Vehemently defending carp and hating bowfishing I didn't think you or other carpers would actually kill other fish for no reason. I don't believe you would actually kill LM, walleye, sauger, etc...especially being an ex-smallie fanatic. Figured that was just a friendly poke.

The only species of fish that I killed on purpose is the white perch on Lake Erie or LaDue. On Erie, they don't go to waste. The gulls eat them as fast as I can catch them. I know some people would not like that as they consider smoked white perch to be delicious.
I don't see a problem with bowfishing for carp. Been on the books for years and hasn't affected the carp populations, just like the carp haven't affected the other "sportfish" in West Branch for years before the weeds disappeared.
Think the weeds disappearing had more to do with mismanagement of water levels than anything else or management of water levels with flood control in mind rather than fishing.


----------



## The Kernel

There is a type of Gar that I have caught in the UK....in salt water only though!? They are very sporting on light tackle (4-6lb),with leaps and twists you can for a moment imagine you are micro-marlin fishing...


----------



## Bass_Hawg

PAYARA said



> Bass anglers have absolutely NO clue! They think that the world
> revolves around Bass fishing! They have no idea that carp are
> indeed number one world wide in 'sport fishing' and most fish
> consumed!


Fact number 1. Actually 90% of fish consumed come from the ocean and sea waters. Carp are freshwater fish.

Fact number 2. IN AMERICA Bass fishing IS a multi billion dollar industry and the number one most sought after fish. So yes in America, Bass is the number one Game fish. I cant find anything on the net that confirms what is the number one game fish globally. Sorry.

Fact number 3. I am a bass angler and I absolutely have a clue. I know that the world does not revolve around bass fishing.

Fact number 4. There is no hard 100% proof that Carp destroy a fishery. I myself have caught many a bass around areas where carp are spawning.

Fact number 5. All fish impact a body of water in one way or another. Some in a good way and others in a bad way. It really depends on the body of water. A food chain is established and has to be maintained in order for any fishery to survive. This means not only catch and release, stocking of bait fish, chemical additives to boost the fertilization of water to ensure the phytoplankton are in abundance, but also selective harvest of all species of fish caught.

Fact number 6. Taco bell is THE best Fast food Mexican restraint in the nation. (Ok number six is just my opinion)

I understand that a lot of bass anglers get a bad rap because of what Leckig has just pointed out. These anglers are obviously ignorant on fishery management and marine science. I can understand why a carp angler would hate a bass angler after listening to such ignorant babbling. 

Payara, I in no way want to get in any debate with you mainly because I know how well you know Carp. I completely respect that. I have never killed any carp or any fish for that matter for fun or hatred of the species. I just wanted to point out that I am a bass angler and I do have a clue. I know carp get a bad rap for whatever reason. All this bull about native fish this and native fish that. What ever. We as Americans are technically not native to this country. Does that mean we are less apart of this great country . . . . . NO. The USA thrives because of its diversity, and so does the fishing.

I can only dream to catch carp like you guys do. The Carp is truly a hard fighting fish and for me it is a challenge to catch one (I know laugh it up) I have been carp fishing 3 times in the last 2 years and blanked 2 of the 3 times. I truly wish I could hook up with someone one day such as your self who knows how to catch the Hawg carp to teach me a thing or 2 about your fav species of fish. I respect all anglers for there opinions and for what species they fish for. I just love to fish.

2 cents take it for what it is worth.


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## Walter Adkins

Salmoind you like to carp fish? I have caught a good number of them and they just do not put up much of a fight. I do not kill them but I do not go out looking for them either. As far as carp are concerned I am still looking to get in on that action. I have streams that I fish that are loaded with them. Carp also will put as good as a fight as almost any fish and are wary to a persons approach. I just need to mix and match as I go out after bass in the streams I fish.


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## The Kernel

Bass_Hawg said:


> PAYARA said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Payara, I in no way want to get in any debate with you mainly because I know how well you know Carp. I completely respect that. I have never killed any carp or any fish for that matter for fun or hatred of the species. I just wanted to point out that I am a bass angler and I do have a clue. I know carp get a bad rap for whatever reason. All this bull about native fish this and native fish that. What ever. We as Americans are technically not native to this country. Does that mean we are less apart of this great country . . . . . NO. The USA thrives because of its diversity, and so does the fishing.
> 
> I can only dream to catch carp like you guys do. The Carp is truly a hard fighting fish and for me it is a challenge to catch one (I know laugh it up) I have been carp fishing 3 times in the last 2 years and blanked 2 of the 3 times. I truly wish I could hook up with someone one day such as your self who knows how to catch the Hawg carp to teach me a thing or 2 about your fav species of fish. I respect all anglers for there opinions and for what species they fish for. I just love to fish.
> 
> 2 cents take it for what it is worth.



Bravo Sir! well said...this could be the start of the Bass/carp alliance!  New faces, new friends!
  If you want to come out and catch some carp then try to make it to the West Branch CAG outing..weather (and fish!?) permitting we'll get you hooked up with a couple . All you need is a stoutish rod and reel with a working drag.....Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...fish on!!


----------



## PAYARA

Bass Hawg-You are correct that more saltwater fish are consumed,
but the carp IS the most consumed freshwater species,worldwide!
I should have been more specific!

Fact 2-You are correct that Bass are the most sought after species
in the US.However,carp are fished for as 'sport' in more nations than
we have states!Have you ever seen the list of team entries to the 
World Carp Cup?See how many nations are represented!I'll dig up
more than enough evidence to support my statement.You could
also just read or watch just about any segment/article that the 
In-fisherman has done on carp,and they will tell you its a fact!
In-Fish dosen't use the phrase ''Worlds Greatest Sport Fish'' 
when refering to the carp for nothing  

Fact 5-I totaly agree with you!However people need to stop 
vewing the carp,as if it was the Nile Perch or some other species
that have destroyed entire stocks of native and some cases 
endemic species!The Common Carp to my knowladge have never 
casued another species to become extinct!And I don't think they 
ever will!Unless there is some sort of extreme case?I don't know?
Just disreguard that last bit as Iam just ranting here  .But I do 
agree on selective harvesting,even of carp  I don't like it, but I 
can fully admit that there ARE a number of places that have more 
carp than is really needed,Pyma. springs to mind!But theres a 
difference between harvest and just plain mindless,wastefull,
slughter!

And Mark,Are you crazy?..There can be no armistice!..We must
never form an alliance with the 'Axis' powers!  Seriously Bass 
Hawg,If you can make it to the outing that be great!We
should be able to get you on a few carp!


----------



## RiverRat

Lewzer, i actually liked using LM bass for flathead bait and have many times....as far as W-eye, S-eye and sauger...never use them for bait as NOTHING would hit them..live or fresh cut. "Figured that was just a friendly poke"...NOPE, was just being truthful.

Scott


----------



## misfit

> as far as W-eye, S-eye and sauger...never use them for bait as NOTHING would hit them..live or fresh cut


 wanna bet  
i caught this flathead a couple years ago,that we weighed at 42 pounds.had the back half of a saugeye sticking out of it's throat.when we weighed it the next morning,it weighed 40 after regurgitating that eye.


----------



## PAYARA

Very impresive fish Misfit!..........Whats the biggest you have had?


----------



## misfit

thanks payara.with that eye in her belly,she must have been looking for dessert when shetookmy big goldfish,LOL.
50 is my biggest.can't seem to break that mark..................yet


----------



## PAYARA

50lb is absoultely massive!.........Anyway,I have always found
the eating habits of those big flatheads pretty interesting.Its like
the spend all day/night,whatever...just taking in all sorts of fish
and other foods.Just to digest a portion of all they take in,and
'spit' up the rest?!..its crazy!


----------



## RiverRat

Yea i'll bet ya...ive tried it many times..NOTHING..guess Flatheads dont think those species taste very good either, plus they dont get big enough to fill up a hungary big flathead. 
If that flathead was from a LAKE(which i know it was) that would explain why that flathead ate a S-eye...not enough "normal" prey like suckers, ect...mostly just shad, panfish and carp.
Lake flatheads are a completely different animal..easier to fool, reason why so many of them get caught on goldfish...river fish like more natural food items..not pond raise bait, they like a more livelier prey.
Ive used quillbacks, hognose, redhorse, white suckers, stone rollers, all species of gills, rock bass, LM bass, shad, skipjack, drum , bullheads and yes even carp and buffalo's in my time...great bait and hard to beat..using a s-eye is like using a gar..it just doesnt get any action like the better baits. 

Haveing a few small flatheads in my tanks over a few years taught me a lot on their feeding style and habit...most amazing fish ive hard the pleasure of ever having in a fish tank.
If anyone makes it out to the Cabelas in Wheeling, W.Va. check out their tanks....a few massive flatheads, few big carp..even a few buffalo's and quill backs too.

Scott


----------



## BottomBouncer

I went to that Cabelas mid last summer.....didn't see them?

And now that you mention it...in all the times I've taken goldies to the river...haven't caught any flatheads...or anything else for that matter...Had best luck on whole shad and live bluegill, both of which were caught from the same river further up stream.


----------



## misfit

LOL.i've seen plenty of river flats caught on goldfish.maybe not those little flats you're used to catching(they couldn't swallow an eye either)but REAL flats will eat what they WANT to eat,WHEN they want,no matter what kind of water they live in.i've caught them on everything from jigs to carp and everything in between.
now just to prove my point,here's another 50 caught from a river on a little bitty jig/twistertail.
btw,that guy's name is seevers too


----------



## RiverRat

I was at that Cabelas just last weekend....MASSIVE Flatheads..i think there are like 5 of them..the biggest one looks(through the thick glass) to be easily 60+ lbs. the others are 40+ lbers.
The one big carp they have to close to 40 lbs. the others are high teens and upper 20's.
Some mid to upper teen Channel cats and some freakin awesome big smallmouth bass.
Also some very large 10+ lb Hybrid stripers..dear Lord i couldnt work the night shift there..oh my!
All fish from the Ohio river.... 

Yea Goldfish are a waste of money for the river..dont know if its the lack of "natural" scent, but ive yet to ever catch a river Flathead on such "store bought" baits.
You can not beat a good lively wild bait for rivers...now for lakes, ANYTHING will catch them there.

Scott


----------



## RiverRat

LMAO..i guess that guessing weights runs in the family too...LMAO...that flat is NOT 50 lbs...unless hes 6'7" and 280-300 lbs....LMAO!!

Glad your around Rick, always a good LOL with ya around buddy.

Scott


----------



## BottomBouncer

Um....my only question about that guy named seevers seen above....why isn't that fish still swimming around? Or is it? Just curious.....

Maybe I'll make a journey down to Cabelas this weekend....doubtful, but if I get a wild hair in my *&$


----------



## crappielooker

BB..let me know if you go.. i wanna go too..


----------



## misfit

> unless hes 6'7" and 280-300 lbs


 i guess to a guy of your stature,he would look that big  
at least we can land fish that big,being that unlike you,we're bigger than they are,LOL.

and though the fish was weighed,yes,with our experience,we are good at estimating too  

bb,the reason that fish isn't still swimming around is he made a big mistake,and picked the wrong seevers to mess with.   
ever taste flathead?yum yum.


----------



## PAYARA

Scott--Your statemants about lake flatheads are absolutely 
absurd!How dose a flathead,or any catfish for that matter,know 
what species of fish its taking into its mouth?They have horrible 
eye sight and they don't carry around field guides!Flatheads can 
NOT tell a goldfish from a carp!Or a sucker from a sauger!Iam pretty
inclined to believe that a big flathead will take ANY fish it can get 
into its mouth!Reguardless of the water system it came from!

I have kept flatheads in my aquariums as well,fish that were originaly
from the OH River BTW!And the only thing that you can learn about 
keeping a flathead in captivity is that the do not behave anything like 
they do in the wild!Especialy when it comes to diet and feeding habits!


----------



## BottomBouncer

Can't say I have ever tasted it.......I have a hard enough time catching them  

Now.....it does make it a tad more difficult to catch them when they are busy posing for pictures between the doublewides


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## DaleM

Play nice guys, I'm surprised I haven't closed this one yet, but if it continues to become name calling I will !!


----------



## BottomBouncer

I think flatties would take anything they could get into their mouth if they are in an area with low amounts of bait. Say, a hole of the river that has several flatheads competing for food......drop a bait in there, chances are it won't last long regardless of what it is.......kinda like fishin' catfisherman's paradise(yes, i have fished there) and it is the only place I've caught flatties on goldies. 
Rivers have a more diverse food source, they are not contained like a lake which doesn't allow food to pass through.....it's like a giant pond not much going in or out.

Also, keep in mind that saugeye are stocked in almost every reservoir in Ohio...as fingerlings....easy pickins for resident catfish.


----------



## PAYARA

And Scott,That fish looks every bit of 50lbs!And once again 
(not trying to be a D*** dude)But YOU have posted some fish
whos weights are questionable


----------



## BottomBouncer

Hey Dale, I think all of us deserve a round of applause.....I thought this post wouldn't make it past page one..... I'm sure it has taken A LOT of restraint from most of us, myself included.....to not express....certain dislikes  

Good job guys


----------



## DaleM

[QUOTE A LOT of restraint from most of us, myself included.....to not express....certain dislikes  [/QUOTE]
You don't know how true that statement is ! Trust me.


----------



## BottomBouncer

I think most of the views of this post were by people looking for entertainment  

Glad to see the bowfishing thing fizzled out quickly....


----------



## misfit

you're all learnin'   
as long as it's kept this way,i won't pop my cork either  

bb,good observation.i've rarely had one hit any kind of bait while they were posing for pictures,no matter where,LOL.

and though i haven't kept one for many years,they are good eating.but as you said,you have to catch one before you can eat it


----------



## misfit

yes,it's been entertaining,and luckily survived the few bowfishing posts which were rightly deleted.


----------



## BottomBouncer

I have been bit while the fish was posing(kinda)

GF was taking a picture of me unhooking a small mangrove snapper down in Florida...well.....I know where the snapper name comes from...got my finger too close and the dam thing bit me!!!! Imagine a guy standing there with a slightly larger than hand size fish latched on to his thumb.....kinda hurt too


----------



## RiverRat

Greg, first off AFTER you spend years actually CATCHING lots of flatheads..come talk to me....until then stick to what you know..which is NOTHING to do with catfish, let along FLATHEAD catfish.



(SORRY, Deleted reply to Mr. Seevers)..dont want DaleM to blow a fuse!! 

Scott


----------



## BottomBouncer

Okay......now we're getting on the right track


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## RiverRat

Actually were not..i just deleted the majority of my reply...DANG i hate rules!!!

Scott


----------



## BottomBouncer

It would be kinda cool to have a forum where anything goes....then again....

The florida sportsman forum actually has a politics forum...that would be nice.... I can't say much more without getting into a political debate and opening a whole new can of corn


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## BottomBouncer

I just realized......I gotta be to work in 3 1/2 hours......

Hey RR......goin' fishing anytime soon?


----------



## johnboy111711

they have that @ohfishing.com


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## PAYARA

Scott,How do you know what I know about Flatheads?You would 
be suprised at my extensive knowladge of Flatheads!


----------



## RiverRat

Greg, Anymore your extensive knowlege about ANY species is questionable to me..LMAO...but as ive said in my reply to your other dribble on the other thread...

"whatever you say man i'll agree with, its easier that way...just let it die"

Next subject please...geez us!

Scott


----------



## RiverRat

"I just realized......I gotta be to work in 3 1/2 hours......"

*LMAO..............*
*[/color]* 
Thats funny as heck man...hahahahaha.....yup you'll be sorry you stayed up BS'in over nothing at work tommorrow..lol.

NO, im glad its NOT allowed here..i dont get into political or religeous discussions..you guys think i PO people with just "fishing" topics...oh my, look out!

BB, as far as fishing, YES i'll be meeting my buddy Dave(occdave) about 9am for some carp'in...its the last day of "warm" weather..then its calling for mid to low 30's after that as far as i could see. Not that i mind the cold, i actually want the fridged cold to come back...this warm spell has been nice, but we caught loads of carp during those cold weeks at the end of Nov. and most of Dec....since the warm spell those carp have pushed into other areas and spread out, after a week of cold weather again, they'll stack right back up for easy pickens......come on cold!! 
This is my last night of work(yes im working right now and have been the last 4 nights) but ive got 4 days off and im ready to catch some fish..lol

Scott


----------



## River Walker

I'm sure that in other parts of the world carp are considered a delicacy,but then so are goats and dogs.Personally,I have tried eating them a couple of times,and I found their taste to be terrible,whether smoked or baked.Also,maybe it's just me,but I have caught(accidentally)many carp in my time,and in no way would I even begin to compare their fight with that of a bass.Just this past summer while wading a local stream,I foul-hooked a carp of around 5 or 6 pounds in the tail,while it did put up a respectable fight in the current,I still had no trouble landing it in the swift water with 4lb.test.Funny thing is,during that same trip,I had 2 smallies break off that were both under two pounds.Another troubling issue brought up here,I find it to be incredibly shallow to say that bass fishermen think they own the lake,and have no respect for other fishermen(even carpers).Bass fishing organizations,and the money they generate are a major reason there's public lakes for everybody to fish,not just themselves.Finally,let's get real about In-Fisherman,they already have a tremendous backing here in the states,don't you realize by mentioning carp,and other fish from other countries,they're building up their business there too.I think I'll go by what McClane penned many years ago about the smallmouth bass, pound for pound, is the gamest fish that swims.


----------



## RiverRat

River W....dude i know Stream/River smallies and YES they are battlers and the bonus is they JUMP...if carp also jumped they would be ranked #1 with most anglers and fished for by loads more anglers!
When i fish for smallies in moving water, 6 lb test is standard...ive landed 8 smallies over 20" and a few 1000's smallies under 20" in my time..a true fighter and i highly respect Smallies .
Now have'in said that...comparing a smallmouths head shaking jumps and short bursts of power is no where near a carps LONG fast power runs and its knowlege and smarts, if there is ANYTHING in its area to break you off on , it will. Carp ARE one of the smartest freshwater fish...and thats a FACT.

I use 12 lb test as standard for all-around carp angling and 12'+ rods, but also step up to 14-15 lb tests in heavier cover waters. I have NEVER used anything over 8 lb test for smallies, even when targeting 4 + lbers in some of my honey holes.I match the tackle and line to the fish..if smallies faught the way you say, i'd be using 12 lb tests for them ,Maybe if you'd look down at that UL combo and 4 lb test you'd see....smallies are fighting machines, but if they were what you say they are, you'd be using heavier gear...i know i do for smallies(6 lb test, 7'+ rods) and think UL gear is a waste and wouldnt last on my streams..but hey thats my opinion! 
Maybe your line snapped because the CARP rubbed you on some ROCKS during its fight.....i'll take ya to a few streams and let ya hook a carp in the MOUTH, in the 5 lb class on UL gear, bet you would'nt have any of that 4 lb test/ 70 yrds left on the spool...LMAO.

Hold on....someone please tell me why im explaining this stuff to a bass guy...huh? GEEZ..

Anyway,

My Ohio list for top 5 fighters goes:
#1Flathead Catfish
#2Carp
#3Hybrid Stripers
#4Smallmouth bass
#5*tie - Drum & Channel cats over 10 lbs.

Scott


----------



## River Walker

Oh I agree,carp are so intelligent,that must explain why hundred's,if not thousand's of them swim up into flooded fields in the spring,only to get trapped and die when the waters recede.Also,explain this one;I worked with the ODNR in Findlay for a few years,and we used to set up nets at lakes such as Clear Fork,Knox and a few others in search of muskies,for spawning purposes.I've pulled in net after net for a 3 year period,and when you pull one up,you'll have the usual assortment of turtles,crappies,a few bluegills,hopefully a muskie or two,and of course the ever present carp,just never seem to find any bass though that happened to wonder on up into the net-why is that? Yeah,I would tend to agree with you,if I was (heaven forbid) bank fishing for a fish that could easily surpass 15lbs.,then I don't think I would be propping my UL rod in an old forked stick,I probably would use something a might bit larger-duh! However,while fishing a small stream in pursuit of smallies and panfish,the little wand does just fine.Being born and raised in northern Michigan dude,I've seen and caught more 5lb. smallies than you're likely to see on your honey-hole creek in your lifetime.Another point I'll concur with you on is both Big and Little Darby Creeks are fine bass waters,but in no way are they as good as some of the northern Ohio streams such as the Huron River,these rivers are constantly being restocked with lake run fish,bass that can and do exceed 5lbs.Saying that you're wasting your time trying to explain carpin' techniques to a bass guy just shows that you're the one with the attitude against a certain species of fish,or who pursues them.I have no issues with carp,or the people who fish for them,could care less,but when you start ripping on bass fishermen that's just silly.BTW if the DNR people in Ohio and other states thought that carp were such a valuable resource(prolly due to their intelligence),they wouldn't poison lakes to eradicate them would they?


----------



## cypry

Just a quick word for the people who mock carp's intelligence . I agree that the smaller and younger carp are easier to catch , and seem to most as generally dumb but they have the potential to be intelligent. Carp learn by association and learn from their mistakes and when we practice catch and release they have the chance to learn. 

For example, carp in a small highly pressured environment and by highly pressured i mean constantly fished for by many anglers the carp learn the danger signs . Footsteps and noise bankside straight away makes them more aware of danger . certain baits that they have been caught on in the past are avoided like the plague . they look for lines in the water . I have personally witnessed several times a number of carp feed on my groundbait in shallow water , suck in the hookbait several times to test it before deciding that it's dangerous , sometimes even moving it to the side so they can continue feeding . I have even witnessed crude communication between carp . One day i was fishing close in the margin when 2 carp approached . One fish started feeding in front of me while the other was after circling once was clearly aggitated by something . this fish then procceeded to dart around near the feeding fish and then jumped clear of the water twice . The feeding fish quickly stopped feeding and followed the other carp back in the direction they came.


In a lake i used to fish there was a small head of very large , old experienced carp that were extremely hard to catch . one year about 50 small carp were stocked in this lake and proceeded to get caught on a very regular basis , It took a couple of years but these young carp are now just as big and just as difficult to catch as the older original stock of fish.

I would be very interested to hear how other fish behave . I know catch and release isn't as widespread as in carp fishing but i think most fish would have the potential to learn


----------



## PAYARA

Scott-  Hey don't hate,...'cause my knowladge of ALL fish 
species far exceeds your own!Iam sorry if it makes you look
bad from time to time!


----------



## Master Angler

I once knew a carp so smart that he would tie lines out of reeds and toss them up on the bank trying to lasso my can of corn.


----------



## cypry

He was really trying to get that can of bud light but he kept missing


----------



## DaleM

You guys are about 1 more post with this name calling stuff getting this thread locked. Why can't you find a new hobby and stop trying to impress each other. #1 neither one of you are old enough to have done all you claim to have done  as long as (MISFIT & I) have been around you guys have told more stories than we both could have dreamed up. So move on guys and stop with the bickering, I believe we have all heard enough. Take it to PM's and not on the board.


----------



## PAYARA

Hey MA,I hope your not poking fun of Cypry's post,man?  
Because what he says IS 100% fact!Those UK carp are VERY
crafty!

And MA,I don't doubt your claims


----------



## Ðe§perado™

LOL......Smart Carp....LOL


----------



## PAYARA

LOL..Smart Bowhunters...LOL


----------



## BottomBouncer

PAYARA said:


> LOL..Smart Bowhunters...LOL


What he said


----------



## River Walker

After reading through all of these posts,and hearing about all the glorious attributes of carp,and how they are endeared globally,I'm left with a puzzling thought.If this is true,I wonder why in the majority of the states,if not all,they're called "rough fish",and are allowed to be shot with a bow,gigged,pitch forked,snagged with treble hooks,and poisoned.Doesn't sound to me like there's a whole lotta' lovin' going down with carp to me! I could care less what anybody else fishes for,but when the carpin' crew start ragging on other fishermen,that's when the line in the sand gets drawn.Like I said,I could care less that you fish for carp,or anything else for that matter.I'm sure it is relaxing stretching out on some riverbank on a nice summer day with a couple rods propped up in the old forked sticks,a couple cans of Old Mil by your side,a tin or two of vienna sausages/w saltines to munch away on between side-splitting strikes,that's cool,just not my game.Oh,I'm sure some guys became high-tech,sophisticated carpers and broke out with their Euro gear,and now what with all their modern bottom fishing gear like maggot catapults,specialized river floats,and match rods,they think their gadgetry will rival that of the bass and walleye guys-dream on carpin' fraternity,not even close.Another interesting thing said near the start of this post was that carp will eventually become the number one fish sought after by anglers here in America,do you really believe that ANYONE outside of your little circle would ever believe that? I really believe that it's YOU GUYS that need to get real!


----------



## The Kernel

River Walker said:


> After reading through all of these posts,and hearing about all the glorious attributes of carp,and how they are endeared globally,I'm left with a puzzling thought.If this is true,I wonder why in the majority of the states,if not all,they're called "rough fish",and are allowed to be shot with a bow,gigged,pitch forked,snagged with treble hooks,and poisoned.Doesn't sound to me like there's a whole lotta' lovin' going down with carp to me! I could care less what anybody else fishes for,but when the carpin' crew start ragging on other fishermen,that's when the line in the sand gets drawn.Like I said,I could care less that you fish for carp,or anything else for that matter.I'm sure it is relaxing stretching out on some riverbank on a nice summer day with a couple rods propped up in the old forked sticks,a couple cans of Old Mil by your side,a tin or two of vienna sausages/w saltines to munch away on between side-splitting strikes,that's cool,just not my game.Oh,I'm sure some guys became high-tech,sophisticated carpers and broke out with their Euro gear,and now what with all their modern bottom fishing gear like maggot catapults,specialized river floats,and match rods,they think their gadgetry will rival that of the bass and walleye guys-dream on carpin' fraternity,not even close.Another interesting thing said near the start of this post was that carp will eventually become the number one fish sought after by anglers here in America,do you really believe that ANYONE outside of your little circle would ever believe that? I really believe that it's YOU GUYS that need to get real!



Well, to be blunt, the short answer to the first part of your post is because of ignorance. Over here you grow up believing the carp is a worthless species because each generation passes this on as FACT. US carp were originally STOCKED by government as a legitimate highly valued food resource...current (typical) official and unofficial attitudes have the carp down as an almost inedible toxic trash fish...so you can see that ATTITUDES change. The carp does not. The very fact that you don't NEED sophisticated gadgetry (though it is fun to use)...or a $50,000 boat, to catch THE BIGGEST HARDEST FIGHTING FISH IN THE LAKE THAT PUTS ALL PIDDLY LITTLE BASS 'TROPHY' FISH TO SHAME  (Wanna compare pictures? )is why it is appealing to more and more people.


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## PAYARA

To add to Marks excelent post.....I would just like to say that 
carpfishing in the US and Canada has grown in leaps and bounds in
just the last 3 yrs!In that time we have had roughly 10 shops open
up around the country selling carp specific baits and gear!To add
to the already existing shops in the US and Canada.As well as a
number of guide services.The US just last year hosted the World 
Carp Cup in NY!The WORLDS greatest carp competition!With anglers
comming from around the GLOBE!It received great publicity 
here and was very successful.Its just going to keep on growing
and growing!It WILL take some serious time.But its just a matter
of time before Shimano,Daiwa,ect fully notice the carp scene in
the US,they already have a hint in Canada!But once the BIG
hitters in the tackle world,and the goverment realize what
kind of money can be made off of the carp.Then the carp
will get what it deserves!IMO......Complete respect!It will
happen just in the same fasion as catfish,only bigger!


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## River Walker

OK,here's a comparison for you,and it's a real one dude.What do you think the next world record bass will be worth? No less than a million dollars,probably a lot more.What do you think the next world record carp will be worth? You simply can't argue that fact,it's been written over and over again what the next world record bass would be worth.Can't it just be left at you guys like catching carp,and some of us enjoy catching bass? When you start comparing the fight of a 3-5lb.bass to the fight of a fish that can exceed 20lbs.,how is that a comparison? With most bass anglers it's not all about the fight,at least not for me.It's about the challenge of getting the fish to hit my artificial that turns me on.For me,again-for me,I don't get any satisfaction from sitting around waiting for a fish to locate my bait.That includes fishing for bass with live bait,or other species such as crappies.I would never rag on somebody who gets into that style of fishing,millions do! I just like slinging a lure around while I'm cruising along with the bow-mount.Everyone has a species of fish they prefer to go after,why does somebody have to go after a group of people because of what they like to fish for.I never intended to get into any debates about it,but a couple guys on here like to stir the pot from time to time,and just thought I would offer a reply or two,but as was previously stated,with their obvious knowledge of all species of fish,and their extensive years of fishing,who can argue with them? I was casting spinners on creeks in every corner of this state and others before either of them were even born,but they're all that-just ask em'!


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## crappielooker

i just like to fish... and try not to kill anything while i'm at it.. whether its a bullhead, or a bass.. if i'm not eating it, it goes back.. alive..  that's about 99.99% of my fishing..


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## Mushijobah

I think most of the notion about carp being a negative addition to the waterway comes from biologists. I totally agree with them BUT....there is not point to start killing all you catch because frankly, they are going to come right back. I have gotten in plenty of arguements with very very emotional guys on here that will not hear one word of common sense, and am not looking see that again. I have also posted numerous university studies about carp (search for them, you will see) and had no luck convincing anyone that their heart and soul's instinct was wrong. If anyone disagrees e-mail or call the odnr, epa, or any universities natural resource department. These guys don't work out of emotion for the fish, they use common sense, that is what divides science (truth) from human emotion (a very, very unstable and variant factor).


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## The Kernel

River Walker said:


> OK,here's a comparison for you,and it's a real one dude.What do you think the next world record bass will be worth? No less than a million dollars,probably a lot more.What do you think the next world record carp will be worth? You simply can't argue that fact,it's been written over and over again what the next world record bass would be worth.Can't it just be left at you guys like catching carp,and some of us enjoy catching bass? When you start comparing the fight of a 3-5lb.bass to the fight of a fish that can exceed 20lbs.,how is that a comparison? With most bass anglers it's not all about the fight,at least not for me.It's about the challenge of getting the fish to hit my artificial that turns me on.For me,again-for me,I don't get any satisfaction from sitting around waiting for a fish to locate my bait.That includes fishing for bass with live bait,or other species such as crappies.I would never rag on somebody who gets into that style of fishing,millions do! I just like slinging a lure around while I'm cruising along with the bow-mount.Everyone has a species of fish they prefer to go after,why does somebody have to go after a group of people because of what they like to fish for.I never intended to get into any debates about it,but a couple guys on here like to stir the pot from time to time,and just thought I would offer a reply or two,but as was previously stated,with their obvious knowledge of all species of fish,and their extensive years of fishing,who can argue with them? I was casting spinners on creeks in every corner of this state and others before either of them were even born,but they're all that-just ask em'!



During the World Carp Championship in NY the prize for a STATE record carp was......$1,000,000. In Texas this year there is a tournament where a STATE record carp will net a cool $250,000. If dollar value is the measure then the WORLDWIDE carp angling industry dwarfs that off the bass weighing in at an estimated ONE BILLION dollars. 

I'm not 'going after' anyone here..just trying to point out a few things that you might not know...I agree with you for the most part, each to their own...but if you were using light tackle you would have a three pound Bass in the boat, photographed and released before you even got a glimpse at a three pound carp...


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## RiverRat

LMAO...this is one of the best threads yet...too bad the man is about to close it.

If anyone wants to continue this topic off the open forum i'd be glad to do so through PM's, E-mail's, ect.

Scott


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## BottomBouncer

The Kernel said:


> During the World Carp Championship in NY the prize for a STATE record carp was......$1,000,000. In Texas this year there is a tournament where a STATE record carp will net a cool $250,000. If dollar value is the measure then the WORLDWIDE carp angling industry dwarfs that off the bass weighing in at an estimated ONE BILLION dollars.
> 
> I'm not 'going after' anyone here..just trying to point out a few things that you might not know...I agree with you for the most part, each to their own...but if you were using light tackle you would have a three pound Bass in the boat, photographed and released before you even got a glimpse at a three pound carp...


Well put Kernel


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## misfit

> LMAO...this is one of the best threads yet...too bad the man is about to close it.


as usually happens with these things,it started out innocently and turned into another my carp can beat up your bass,i know more than you,bla,bla,bla soap opera
if some of you folks enjoy fishing for your carp,cats,bass,eyes,as much as you enjoy arguing the merits of one over the other,you must have as much fun on the water as me.
i thought this forum was requested for other,more constructive purposes,but i guess some of you must not think so.
and some of you need to learn to respect other people as much as you expect people to respect a damned fish.if you do,you may find that you'll also get a little more respect in return.

that's my speech for the day.
so without further delay,this thread is closed.


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