# allen reels



## Guest

anyone own one, tried one or know anything about them? price seems to be too good to be true for a machined reel.


----------



## oarfish

That just to show you how overpriced the machined reels were all these years. Machining is not that expensive of a process especially these days with computerized automation.


----------



## fallen513

That's not entirely true oarfish, these Allen reels are just more chicom crap. See the other reel question thread. They just rebrand a chinese reel. You won't see a reel made in the USA milled like that for under a couple hundred, $300+ is more realistic.

Now... $600+ for a reel and you're paying for a name, maybe some ingenuity too.


----------



## Guest

work has been pretty bad this year. i doubt much if i can afford a 300 dollar reel, let alone 600 dollars worth of ingenuity. i just wanted to go fishing, maybe another rod and reel.


----------



## Nick The Stick

A Sage 1600 series. Great drag, light and i belive made in the usa


----------



## Guest

nick, i believe all sage reels are now made in korea.


----------



## wabi

My experience(s) with dealing with Allen Fly Fishing have not been good.
Very poor customer service and slow on shipping.


----------



## fallen513

rapman, the truth is that the reel may last you forever, especially if you are easy on it. For $100, personally I would buy a Lamson Konic:










They are light, durable & reliable.


----------



## Patricio

fallen513 said:


> That's not entirely true oarfish, these Allen reels are just more chicom crap. See the other reel question thread. They just rebrand a chinese reel. You won't see a reel made in the USA milled like that for under a couple hundred, $300+ is more realistic.
> 
> Now... $600+ for a reel and you're paying for a name, maybe some ingenuity too.


while I agree with your assessment on asian reels(the drags on new orvis reels are JUNK), many expensive reels are either handmade or made of materials that are crazy expensive. and they are works of art.


----------



## Guest

fallen, i have fished the tribs in pa for awhile and while i have heard some good things about the konics, i have also heard the drags fail in extreme temps. just a few times, but enough to raise a flag.



i own three british made battenkills and once of the newer mid-arbor battenkills made in china or korea. so far, it has treated me kindly. no complaints yet. it has the same drag as the plueger trion and the very best steelheader i know uses the trion exclusively.


----------



## Flyfish Dog

Lamson reels are very solid and never had a problem with their drags. The Konic is honestly one of the best value in a reel along with any Ross reels. I recently received a Plueger Summit reel in a trade,, although I have no use for it but it seems like a decent reel but the quality is not as good as USA made reels. The Allen looks like a paper weight reel as I be afraid to drop it on the edge as you can really see the handle will not turn once that lip gets bent. Bad design IMO. Orvis reels are ok but I will not pay for a reel made in China cause their metalurgical quality is piss poor. As for Sage reels, I like their rods better! Their reels are junk if you got to be very careful not to lose any of tiny little pieces if you have to take it apart like changing retreive on a reel made in KOREA! Not worth the money IMO again.


----------



## Guest

the konic is a casted reel, isn't it? if i do get another, i believe i want it machined for the structural integrity.


----------



## bigduck10

I have 4 Lamson reels. 7, 8, 9 and a 10 weight. I have caught everything from Steelhead, Salmon, Stripers to Tarpon on them and never had one issue. They are all Guru models. Love the drag systems.
My smaller models are the older Battenkill models and Ross. Never had a issue with any of them either.


----------



## steelheader007

rapman said:


> the konic is a casted reel, isn't it? if i do get another, i believe i want it machined for the structural integrity.


Several years ago I watched a guy put a cast made Okuma Fly Reel in the water to cool it down after a Salmon ran back to Canada and it exploded!..lol.. Hmm never have owned a cast made reel!


----------



## Flyfish Dog

HaHa Tom I would like to see that. Okuma and Konic are casted and then machined. Knowing the Lamson quality control is way better then Okuma though a it is done overseas while Lamsons are done in house. Lamsons has lifetime warranty and will replace the Konic for it exploding like that which is entirely unusual. The money going for Okuma is cheap but their drags are terrible! Maybe why there was erratic friction to build up quickly. Give me a quality reel.
Like a cast iron engine block if it got really hot and then a quick splash of cold water will crack it but not explode though.


----------



## steelheader007

Flyfish Dog said:


> HaHa Tom I would like to see that. Okuma and Konic are casted and then machined. Knowing the Lamson quality control is way better then Okuma though a it is done overseas while Lamsons are done in house. Lamsons has lifetime warranty and will replace the Konic for it exploding like that which is entirely unusual. The money going for Okuma is cheap but their drags are terrible! Maybe why there was erratic friction to build up quickly. Give me a quality reel.
> Like a cast iron engine block if it got really hot and then a quick splash of cold water will crack it but not explode though.


I watched the reel actually smoke..lol.. before he immersed the reel into the Salmon River! I do have to say I picked up a piece of the reel that was still laying on the bottom of the bottom of the river. I noticed alot of small voids in the metal and with the heat it just expanded and went poof!..lol.. I have had my reels my Orvis reel in the salt water heat up on striper runs fishing 400 grain full sinking lines never fail me yet. I'm looking into making another serious reel purchase either going to be a Momentum TL #8, Natilus 12S, or Bauer? I have a Galvan T12 for my 13'9" Cpx Spey rod, but need a bigger coffee can for my 15' that I got from a fellow OGF'r thats going to accompany me to BC in 2013. I'm also looking into making a reel purchase for a custom 6wt switch. I'm probly going to run back to Galvan again for it a T10. Bottom line there are some great less expensive reels out there. You need to take your time and first set a budget. Figure out what species you are going to mainly chase. Do enough research about the warranty of the reel untill you are confortable. No matter what reel you end up with just make sure you as the consumer are happy! I'm hard on my gear. I drag my gear over rocks, sand, and occasionally neglect my gear. Good luck with what ever you choose!


----------



## Clayton

rapman said:


> the konic is a casted reel, isn't it? if i do get another, i believe i want it machined for the structural integrity.


Have you actually had a cast reel break? I'm curious, because everyone cites the machined reels being stronger but I don't know anyone who has broke a cast reel, other than one that I found run over with a car 

edit: I'm gonna call the exploding okuma an outlier in this, lol.


----------



## Guest

have been told so by steelheaders i know up on erie.... but my older battenkills are cast and never had a problem at all. i just thought my next steelhead reel should or could be a bit better. not necessary though, as i live on a budget these days.........grrr.

i try to live within my means and still enjoy fishing, but i guess i will never be an elitist.....lol


----------



## steelheader007

Clayton said:


> Have you actually had a cast reel break? I'm curious, because everyone cites the machined reels being stronger but I don't know anyone who has broke a cast reel, other than one that I found run over with a car
> 
> edit: I'm gonna call the exploding okuma an outlier in this, lol.


Buddy ..lol.. I wish I had a video camera! It did not pop or go kaboom! When he submerged it in the water I watched the reel seat crack off and fall off the rod! The back of the reel was cracked in two places where the spindle was, and further more the reel was missing pieces..lol..All I know is I saw it and it was cast and had alot of visable voids in it!


----------



## Flyfish Dog

There is huge difference between how they properly casts casting metal. The ones like 007 mentioned is spot on when they comes from far east that is why they really cheaper. Some of the casting are forged afterwards before finished machining. This helps to purge out any small voids and makes a stronger reel. 

Tom if you can hold off purchasing until Ross comes out with their new hot rod of spey reel especially if you gonna spend that much dough.


----------



## Flyfish Dog

rapman said:


> have been told so by steelheaders i know up on erie.... but my older battenkills are cast and never had a problem at all. i just thought my next steelhead reel should or could be a bit better. not necessary though, as i live on a budget these days.........grrr.
> 
> i try to live within my means and still enjoy fishing, but i guess i will never be an elitist.....lol


Even those older BK reels were not casted in chinktown either. Good reels!


----------



## steelheader007

Flyfish Dog said:


> There is huge difference between how they properly casts casting metal. The ones like 007 mentioned is spot on when they comes from far east that is why they really cheaper. Some of the casting are forged afterwards before finished machining. This helps to purge out any small voids and makes a stronger reel.
> 
> Tom if you can hold off purchasing until Ross comes out with their new hot rod of spey reel especially if you gonna spend that much dough.


Any idea on a release date for the fly fishing hubcap?


----------



## Flyfish Dog

steelheader007 said:


> Any idea on a release date for the fly fishing hubcap?


Anytime now. But you could talk with Geoff I think his name at Ross to inquire about it though. I believe it models the new F1 but blown up in size. I wished I could spend the money to have one though. I see you looking at Naut. 12 on Speypages. That's a good deal.


----------



## steelheader007

Flyfish Dog said:


> Anytime now. But you could talk with Geoff I think his name at Ross to inquire about it though. I believe it models the new F1 but blown up in size. I wished I could spend the money to have one though. I see you looking at Naut. 12 on Speypages. That's a good deal.


Yea we will see..lol... I know he is in a hurry to sell the reel but I will re-inquire about in later to see if he still has it! I just cant wait to heal up so I can get back on the [email protected] water!


----------



## Flyfish Dog

If it doesnt clear up around here soon then I be will heading to Florida where fishing is hot and the guys showing off with sandels and short in their yaks.


----------



## steelheader007

Flyfish Dog said:


> If it doesnt clear up around here soon then I be will heading to Florida where fishing is hot and the guys showing off with sandels and short in their yaks.


LOL.. I would be staring at the gals who are wearing no sandels..hmmmm


----------



## fallen513

steelheader007 said:


> LOL.. I would be staring at the gals who are wearing no sandels..hmmmm



LOL that's what I was thinkin' too.


----------



## ARReflections

Rapman,
I HAD the Allen Trout 5/7 reel approximately 3.5 months ago before I had a problem with the drag. I fixed the problem or at least it seems to resolve itself but the owner of Allen Fly Fishing, Justin requested I send the reel back to him so he can take a look at it. This was back at the end of Nov 2010. So I sent the reel certified and he acknowledged he received the reel. It is now March 2011 and I have not gotten my reel back.

I am worried about posting this in fear I may never get my reel back but I have documented the e-mail correspondence and clearly there is a problem with supply. A perusal of the forums like Washington Fly Fishing and Pennsylvania will show there are a number of satisfied customers with 1 other customer who had a nightmare with getting their product they ordered and everyone slamming that person for not being "understanding". Well, sadly I now know what happened to that person and I am still waiting for my reel. This past week Justin asked for my address to, I assume, send me my reel, which I have already paid for 3.5 months ago. There are a few inconsistencies that occur which the email correspondence shows but if Justin should find this forum, I will let him explain but I do have the proof.

To answer the question about quality. I found the reel to be of very good quality, plus the price was very good too. The rod I got (Xa) 5 wt is also a nice rod especially for the price. Unfortunately, Justin runs a small operation and so warranty work/followup may be wanting as I am experiencing.

To all the seasoned folks out there. What should I do if getting my reel takes more time? I think waiting 3.5 months is long enough, the product has been paid for, the maker of the reel was the one to request I send it back, Justin has claimed he sent another reel to me certified shipping but later states it is his fault for not shipping certified, promises of sending me another reel (an Alpha) until mine is available but never followed through. etc... Again I have the email trail to documenting all of this.

Hopefully this does not kill the likelihood of me ever getting my reel.... but just MY PERSONAL experience with the Allen Fly company. Again the reviews from other sites are good and I may be the exception to the rule but if you are the one that the exception happens to, it does not diminish the fact it still happened.

I have not posted my experience in other forums as I do not wish to see any small business fail but since I regularly utilize this forum, I wanted to share with everyone here my experience since someone specifically asked about the Allen reel.

I was planning on purchasing another reel and possibly another rod from Allen Fly Fishing but this experience has left a bad taste and so I would possibly suggest as others have mentioned the Lamson if time is a factor.


----------



## Flyfish Dog

steelheader007 said:


> LOL.. I would be staring at the gals who are wearing no sandels..hmmmm


LMAO! I get binoculars out when I do see some hot chicks and take a break watching. Especially in the ocean side along the beach.


----------



## oarfish

ARReflections said:


> Rapman,
> I HAD the Allen Trout 5/7 reel approximately 3.5 months ago before I had a problem with the drag. I fixed the problem or at least it seems to resolve itself but the owner of Allen Fly Fishing, Justin requested I send the reel back to him so he can take a look at it. This was back at the end of Nov 2010. So I sent the reel certified and he acknowledged he received the reel. It is now March 2011 and I have not gotten my reel back.
> 
> I am worried about posting this in fear I may never get my reel back but I have documented the e-mail correspondence and clearly there is a problem with supply. A perusal of the forums like Washington Fly Fishing and Pennsylvania will show there are a number of satisfied customers with 1 other customer who had a nightmare with getting their product they ordered and everyone slamming that person for not being "understanding". Well, sadly I now know what happened to that person and I am still waiting for my reel. This past week Justin asked for my address to, I assume, send me my reel, which I have already paid for 3.5 months ago. There are a few inconsistencies that occur which the email correspondence shows but if Justin should find this forum, I will let him explain but I do have the proof.
> 
> To answer the question about quality. I found the reel to be of very good quality, plus the price was very good too. The rod I got (Xa) 5 wt is also a nice rod especially for the price. Unfortunately, Justin runs a small operation and so warranty work/followup may be wanting as I am experiencing.
> 
> To all the seasoned folks out there. What should I do if getting my reel takes more time? I think waiting 3.5 months is long enough, the product has been paid for, the maker of the reel was the one to request I send it back, Justin has claimed he sent another reel to me certified shipping but later states it is his fault for not shipping certified, promises of sending me another reel (an Alpha) until mine is available but never followed through. etc... Again I have the email trail to documenting all of this.
> 
> Hopefully this does not kill the likelihood of me ever getting my reel.... but just MY PERSONAL experience with the Allen Fly company. It would seem alot of things are offered initially but somewhere in the process, a bait and switch (pun intended) occurs. Maybe I am the exception to the rule but if you are the one that the exception happens to, it does not diminish the fact it still happened.
> 
> I have not posted my experience in other forums as I do not wish to see any small business fail but since I regularly utilize this forum, I wanted to share with everyone here my experience since someone specifically asked about the Allen reel.
> 
> I was planning on purchasing another reel and possibly another rod from Allen Fly Fishing but this experience has left a bad taste and so I would suggest as others have mentioned the Lamson.


Thanks for taking your time for the precise update about Allen Co.: It sounds like a good deal but a poorly managed company. I was thinking about getting one just to see the product but after reading your post I have changed my mind.


----------



## Guest

i too have changed my mind. there are more reels out there that i can look at without fear of poor service. i have owned st. croix rods for years and the reason that i go back is decent quality and great service. 

to all who inputed on this thread, i thank you very much.


----------



## allenflyfishing

Hello Everyone,

ARReflections - Your reel that you sent back was a blessing because I found an issue with the drag that needed to be fixed. However, the timing of it sucked. The Trout reel is made in China and from start to finish it takes 65 days for production. Then with the china new year it slowed things down even more. 

The issue is now fixed and I even changed it on all my reels. But, the issue is the lead time to get it back to you and thats my fault. I could have sent it back to you sooner, but I would know it would come back yet again. I'm sure that is not what you wanted. 

If I was you I'd be upset to, but it is getting fixed and the production is almost done. However, in an email to me you said it was going to be used on my Xa 5wt rod. I would suggest using my Alpha 5/6 instead.

If your OK with that. I'll overnight it to you tomorrow so you'll have it Saturday.

I made the mistake that I know not to make and that is to grow to fast. I put the breaks on some projects to maintain my customer service and I also added someone to help me take some of the load off. Lead times on shipping were getting to behind and once that started I knew it was time to add some help. 

Tom --- I know you have been waiting for my new Saltwater reel design. Its all done now and will be ready at the end of April. I will release it once I get back from my honeymoon. If your on facebook tonight send me a PM and we can talk about it. 

rapman -- If you want to send me a PM letting me know what wt of reel you are looking for. I'd be happy to send you one to take a look at. 


Again, ARReflections, sorry for the horrible lead time. However, let me know what you think about the Alpha 5/6. I will also send you the Trout 3/5 when the are ready. 


Thank you,



Justin


----------



## ARReflections

Rapman and Oarfish,

I think it is still worth checking out Allen Fly Fishing rod and reels. The value and quality was not the issue. Again, as I mentioned, I think my situation is a rare occurrence based on reviews from other forums and various Google searches. Being a small/startup business it is bound to happen. I am in the process of getting things resolved. If I didn't think the product was worth my time in getting it resolved, I would have just cut my loss. I have plenty of other things to occupy my time but the equipment is good. Again, my Xa rod is a solid rod. 

One thing I failed to mention is when I got my Xa rod, Justin sent a prototype for me to try out until I got my Xa. This was done out of good faith. My Xa rod, arrived and I was told to choose between the more expensive prototype or the Xa. I kept the Xa but this illustrates Justin's generosity. I returned the prototype but if I was the unscrupulous type, I could have kept both and Justin would have been out. My main point is this situation with my reel did not seem typical of my previous experience.

I did get a call from Justin today and things were cleared up. It appears Justin's generosity has been abused a few times now and so while he did send a reel to me, it unfortunately did not arrive at my address. From his point of view, I looked like someone trying to get a free reel. From my point of view, it looked like he did not want to send a reel. Based on my rod experience, I will believe Justin in that he sent the reel and somewhere there was a mix up.

As everyone can see, Justin is willing to send me an Alpha 5/6 and will send a trout 3/5 when it becomes available. This is the Justin that I was familiar as others in other forums. I told Justin, he did not need to send the Trout 3/5 reel if I get the Alpha but he insisted. This is not an easy thing to do for a small / startup business as I have been in business myself.

So after all of this long winded explaination, this misunderstanding has been cleared and I would encourage those who are interested in Allen Fly Fishing products to check him out. The product is way undervalued compared to similar and way more expensive products. Even if it is made in China.

In regard to products not made in the US. Very few products are made in the US now a days. The Lamson and Ross products are nice but the quality of the Allen reels/rods are hard to beat considering the price. An interview with Lefty Kreh also confessed the quality of reels/rods made in Korea are on par with those made in the US and the Chinese are closing the gap at a very fast rate. If anything, buying non-US products would force the US to either lower their cost or improve the quality. To me that benefits the US in the long run. While I love the good ol USA, sometimes the "Sleeping Giant" needs a kick in the rear as the Japanese demonstrated to wake Her up.

Okay enough of my novel. 



allenflyfishing said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> ARReflections - Your reel that you sent back was a blessing because I found an issue with the drag that needed to be fixed. However, the timing of it sucked. The Trout reel is made in China and from start to finish it takes 65 days for production. Then with the china new year it slowed things down even more.
> 
> The issue is now fixed and I even changed it on all my reels. But, the issue is the lead time to get it back to you and thats my fault. I could have sent it back to you sooner, but I would know it would come back yet again. I'm sure that is not what you wanted.
> 
> If I was you I'd be upset to, but it is getting fixed and the production is almost done. However, in an email to me you said it was going to be used on my Xa 5wt rod. I would suggest using my Alpha 5/6 instead.
> 
> If your OK with that. I'll overnight it to you tomorrow so you'll have it Saturday.
> 
> I made the mistake that I know not to make and that is to grow to fast. I put the breaks on some projects to maintain my customer service and I also added someone to help me take some of the load off. Lead times on shipping were getting to behind and once that started I knew it was time to add some help.
> 
> Tom --- I know you have been waiting for my new Saltwater reel design. Its all done now and will be ready at the end of April. I will release it once I get back from my honeymoon. If your on facebook tonight send me a PM and we can talk about it.
> 
> rapman -- If you want to send me a PM letting me know what wt of reel you are looking for. I'd be happy to send you one to take a look at.
> 
> 
> Again, ARReflections, sorry for the horrible lead time. However, let me know what you think about the Alpha 5/6. I will also send you the Trout 3/5 when the are ready.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> 
> Justin


----------



## OhJoe

I have dealt with Justin and have some of his reels as well. I ran into a situation where time was an issue and had to deal with it but he made up for everything and the reels are a VERY nice reel for the money. I heard the Konic mentioned on here and that is another nice bang for the buck. I would not hesitate to order from Justin again and would highly recommend the product.


----------



## Flyfish Dog

I been reading up on the WFF forum about the reels. So far a lot of good vibes on them although made in China but for the money go for it. I was concerned about the lip getting bent where the handle may strike if it did. Doesn't like it be a problem so its still, they are a nice looking reels. It almost getting me to see how it would look on my loomis trout/smb rod.


----------



## fallen513

Customer service is the #1 consideration when purchasing items like these. I have a Chinese rod that came with a lifetime warranty. I have broken it... get this... FIVE TIMES. Every time, they have fixed it without asking many questions. To boot, the distributor is in the United Kingdom! And the rod cost me $60 !!!!!!!!!!




Kudos to Justin @ Allen Fly Fishing for handling this the way it should be handled. Good business practices will come full circle as good business! Hopefully you can get the kinks worked out & your company takes off.

Good luck.


----------



## rickerd

Sounds like Allen is improving its customer service and another competitor will only help keep costs to consumers reasonable. I can't help you with Allen reels because I have no experience. I will give you mine though. I have owned an Orvis, 2 Redington, Lamson and Able reels. My orvis was never really meant to be a steelhead reel and it proved itself not worthy during my 2nd season. The real drag stopped working and Orvis dealer gave me my $100 back towards a new reel. I bought a redington with it for $120 and still use it. I have put it through the ringer and just have to replace the cork drag once. Now they are my kids reels. I feel they have been a good value. Only drawback, they are not meant for freezing conditions. I moved up to the Lamson Lightspeed in 2003 and it works during freezing conditions. I had an issue with it in 2007 after a saltwater trip. I spoke to Lamson, they had me send in the reel and my extra spool and asked me to give them a month to fix. This was in late Feb so I was anxious about upcoming steel season. I had the reel and spool back in 10 days with a check for my shipping cost. They have performed flawlessly since including 2 saltwater trips. I still use it as my steelhead reel and would only recommend you buy a larger size than their chart says because it is lighter than most reels. I purchased a used Able reel for my trout in 2006 and it has performed flawlessly. Let us know what you pick. I feel you get a better value for a reel once you are willing to spend $200 or more. When chasing big fish, you really need a quality drag with a smooth start up. If you are going to spend $100, customer service of the company would be a big factor to me. Also, made in USA still holds high value to me.
Let us know what you choose,
Rickerd


----------



## Guest

rickerd, great info. i may have to rethink my bottom line. in time i will purchase. until then, i will be using an orvis mid-arbor that i bought a few months ago.


----------



## fallen513

Speaking of some nice machined American made reels...


----------



## Clayton

fallen513 said:


> Speaking of some nice machined American made reels...


Thank you Captain America!  

You just seem super down on Chinese products lately. American made is awesome, yeah, but not everyone can do their Ebay thing all day to troll up cheap Abels, and even if they could they'd have to outbid you! lol

True, they can fall apart if you hook an 18 lb fish on a 25 dollar reel, but that same 25 dollar reel will land a million of the little trout it was intended for.


----------



## fallen513

You're right I shouldn't be so down on them. Sorry.


----------



## Guest

the way they are buying everything, they may own abel reels someday, instead of madoff.

even if i could afford an abel, i would not buy one. just sayin.


----------



## Flyfish Dog

I take my Lamsons, Ross and Teton reels anyday over way over priced Abel even if it was cheap on fleabay. I dont waste my time on the scammers. Whatever floats your boat but Fleabay slurps and swallow the drinking straw of a mexicans porta potties!! Plus I am mid class American not a POMPOUS A$$ filthy rich snobs that having an ABel and the rest those overpriced reels are. Rod and line is fart more important than the reel.


----------



## crkwader

Flyfish Dog said:


> I take my Lamsons, Ross and Teton reels anyday over way over priced Abel even if it was cheap on fleabay. I dont waste my time on the scammers. Whatever floats your boat but Fleabay slurps and swallow the drinking straw of a mexicans porta potties!! Plus I am mid class American not a POMPOUS A$$ filthy rich snobs that having an ABel and the rest those overpriced reels are. Rod and line is fart more important than the reel.


couldnt agree more.


----------



## fallen513

I'll take the Captain America handle any time you pinko commies want to label me that. 



I'll keep my Abels...and opinions...to myself. Enjoy your day comrades!


----------



## rickerd

Flyfish Dog said:


> I take my Lamsons, Ross and Teton reels anyday over way over priced Abel even if it was cheap on fleabay. I dont waste my time on the scammers. Whatever floats your boat but Fleabay slurps and swallow the drinking straw of a mexicans porta potties!! Plus I am mid class American not a POMPOUS A$$ filthy rich snobs that having an ABel and the rest those overpriced reels are. *Rod and line is fart more important than the reel*.


Flyfish, since you have the Lamson, Ross and Teton reels, I'm sure you know the value of a good reel. I have to disagree with your last statement. With fish over 4 pounds, the reel and drag is much more important than the line. Just sayin'

Rickerd


----------



## fallen513

To rapman, you asked a legitimate question about a reel & hopefully you got the answer you were looking for. They are a Chinese reel that costs from $10 to $30 to produce & are sold wholesale, as low as 20 at a time for $50 each. 

Quality & value are in the eye of the beholder. 


I can get you 200 of'm cheap if you want'em.


----------



## ARReflections

Rapman,

Here are a few photos of the Allen Alpha 5/6 I received from Justin today. It feels very light in the hand and goes well with the 5wt Xa. While it is made in China, I found the quality to be quite decent and I would probably go so far to say better than most. Again, the price and quality ratio is excellent. 

Regarding the whole American made thing, again you would be surprised to find some reels that are quote unquote American made are actually American assembled. To be a purist about it, I would consider American made to be where the metal was obtained from a US company with physical plants in the US, screws, nuts and bolts and assembly all here in the US. 

I like to think fishing is an international brother/sister hood that elevates itself above nationalism.

Anyway, on to the Allen pictures...


----------



## ARReflections

Fallen,
After seening the pic, I must admit those reels do look very similar to the Allen, I received. Interesting. Still like the reel I got but interesting never the less. 

I just wish I got hearts on mine too 



fallen513 said:


> To rapman, you asked a legitimate question about a reel & hopefully you got the answer you were looking for. They are a Chinese reel that costs from $10 to $30 to produce & are sold wholesale, as low as 20 at a time for $50 each.
> 
> Quality & value are in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> 
> I can get you 200 of'm cheap if you want'em.


----------



## Guest

my intent here was not to create controversy. as stated, this has been a rough three months at work and my first consideration must always be taking care of my family. that being said, if i buy another reel, i have to be very conscience of the price. i will never put my wants ahead of my family.

that being said, i own a bunch of st. croix rods, a sage fly and an orvis fly rod (lower ends) all made in america. i love them and wish i could purchase more american made goods, but that option is not always available.

what is available is the desire to go fishing. i am not an elitist who wears the correct garb and holds the right equipment. i am not sure what has happened to the american sportsman over the year. we became brand-conscience.

anyways, in the beginning of this post i stated that my finances were limited for my next fly rod and reel, (as well as one more spinning rod over the next 9 months. i really didn't want to see or hear reviews on a 400-500 dollar reel to catch smallies and gills. for this type of fishing, those reels just are not necessary.

to all, thanks so much for your help and input.

rap


----------



## Guest

guess i will just use what i have and concentrate more on spinning (sorry guys). not much infighting there unless it is which jig to use or what length rod. guess as i close in on 60 the need to stand out is gone. as said, i just love fishing, any kind of fishing.


----------



## fallen513

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160556832483+


$11


($37 to your door.)


----------



## allenflyfishing

Seth, I think its clear that you take a stand on US reels. As you should. And as do I. My family has had a plastic molding company since 1961 and a good amount of workers are employed there. I started as a moldmaker under my Dad and have learned to know alot about machining over the years.

My current reels are made in Asia by an old supplier of mine when I ran the molding company. The reel below does look the same, however, it is not. My first reel was purchased from one of these companies because I needed to see how it was made. In Asia they are better at looking at something than reinventing something. Now, I am pulling away and etching out a name for my reels and my brand. My new Alpha II is a testament to that. That was my way to start my business and it has proved to work for me. 

As a new brand in the industry I understand that I am a target for this type of debate. The other well known brands have settled into the customers minds and are understood. For me, I need to make sure my ROI and demand is good until I can invest in tooling to have a product made here. Financial wise this is the best route that I see fit. I'm aware of the strong opinions of some in the industry to have a US made product. However, there are some very well made offshore reels. Some of the bigger brands in the industy can prove that. 

However, not everyone can afford a US reel. When people ask me where my products are made and if they want a product made here. I tell them I suggest Hatch. I have takin apart alot of reels to see how they are made and I like the Hatch reels the most. They are expensive to most, but I honestly think they are well worth the money even a used one. I'm sure its rare that another company suggests another reel for a customer. However, if my products are not what they are looking for. I feel that I should direct them towards something I think is a good fit. 


This is just a response on the thread. Not intended to upset anyone. Just wanted to make it clear that I am aware of the opinions of those that want a US reel. There is a market for both types and they seem to both have there place in the industry. When the time comes for my company to produce a reel here. I would hope you would give my company another look. 


Thank you,



Justin


----------



## crkwader

rickerd said:


> Flyfish, since you have the Lamson, Ross and Teton reels, I'm sure you know the value of a good reel. I have to disagree with your last statement. With fish over 4 pounds, the reel and drag is much more important than the line. Just sayin'
> 
> Rickerd


may I ask why you say a fish over 4lbs?

i fish for carp a lot during the summer months and I will say, I have put maybe 6 fish on the reel. I mostly play them on the line and have no issues with it. I have a few ponds I also fish with some pretty big bass in them, and I dont put them on the reel either. 


Now maybe I would feel differently if'n i fished for stripers or hybrids or even lived in a place where salt water was the main fishing focus, but I dont and I have learned to play them without using the reel. but I dont. now if someone can justify WHY I need that 400-800 my ears are open. sure american made is nice, but why is our product worth so much more? why is our labor so much better than anyone elses? do they not both fail in the same way?

fallen, this is no dig at you, but my honest question is how can you preach american made when you arent buying from the local fly shop(which is also in danger!) or direct from the company itself? its not like your giving the company or the local business your money.


----------



## ARReflections

This thread has digressed a little from the original post but I think it seems to have hit upon an interesting dynamic within the fly fishing and probably other types of fishing as well. 

My main question is what makes the US made reels a better quality reel? Is it the design? Material? Drag systems? Why are reels like Tibor, Abel and Ross so expensive? Instead of reponses like they are just a higher quality, I think a lot of people what to know why are they a better quality.

AllenFly, why would you consider the Hatch to be better than others? Again, this is not to attack anyone but I think we have a lot of people who simply don't know, including myself, who would spend maybe a few more bucks but on face value, no one has actually stated why. I do think the value and quality are reasonable for the Allen reels but where is the tipping point where I say does that Lamson Vanquish really handle that xyz fish better than the Konic or even the Bass Pro Shop White River brands.

It is similar to buying golf clubs. Does a golf club really help me hit the ball better or do I just simply suck at golf and no matter what club I buy, my slice is still a slice. Or if buying that really expensive club really justified by the extra 2 feet further on the drive than the brand 3x less expensive? Or is it simply my club is bigger than yours in which case one has simply forgotten the reason to even play the game.


----------



## fallen513

Hatch reels are awesome & have a great website showing their design features:

http://www.hatchoutdoors.com/reels1/design-features#0


They are also grotesquely expensive...and so, this debate continues. LOL


----------



## Clayton

fallen513 said:


> Higher grade materials, better finish, tighter tolerances, more attention to detail, *marketing*, time involved in manufacturing, actual research & development, innovative design features...


Ding ding ding! I looked over the Hatch reel features, because I'd never heard of Hatch before. They're nice. However, of the seven posted, none are really all that innovative. The only one that adds real expense is the machined-on reel seat, and that's standard on a couple of new ross reels. And thanks to the principal of load sharing, the two pieces can act as one piece if you torque the screws to the right tension. negating a lot of pricey machining. And think of it this way: If it weren't a LOT marketing, would it come in a stitched leather case inside a custom-looking wood box. Don't get me wrong, it's really cool. And if I wanted to be the coolest guy evar I'd get one! lol.

What I'm trying to say is that, just as much as real quality (no pun intended), there's the perception of real quality that you are paying for. Everyone knows a Tibor, Abel, or apparently Hatch is a high quality reel that will last, so they pay for it. It's the Toyota effect - they've been doing it right for a long time, and most people know they will keep doing so.

Wanna know what my first reel was? It was the plastic job that came with a Redington Crosswater 5 weight. I've caught a bevy of 20" trout on it and it handles smallmouth just fine. To prove a point I think I'll go get a steelie on it next week.

My advice? Buy the cheapest thing you can get your hands on unless it looks like an UTTER POS. It'll be fine. It's better to get in to fly fishing with what some might perceive as inferior equipment than it is to keep spin fishing. The attitude of elitism is killing our sport, slowly but surely.


----------



## ARReflections

So from what I am "hearing", it would seem the reels like Abel, Tibor, Ross, Danielsson, Nautilaus and Hatch are like the Mercedes, Lexus and BMWs of fly fishing. So what reels would you consider to be a toyota or honda? Ford/Chevy? Yugos and Smart cars? 

I would compare Allen reels to a Hyundai car. Good bang for the buck, good warranty but still a public perception of being a Hyundai. Anything wrong with that? Not at all, but if people had a choice between picking a free BWM or Hyundai, which one would they pick? Even if the BWM has more repair issues, I would wager at least 90% would still pick the BMW. Even if the Hyundai may be a better car mechanically. Not talking about custom leather etc... Eventually I think Allen Fly Fishing, perhaps the Alpha II, will bring out a Hyundai Genesis.

By the way, I think BMWs are not that great of a car and actually need repairs way more than the $$ justifies. So what reel would be a BMW?


----------



## fallen513

I think the car analogy is a good one. A lot of the guys driving BMWs & Mercedes are major D Bags. Not all of them, and maybe not even most of them. I know at least 3 or 4 members here who drive them... 

Gear is the same way. Sometimes it's people with too much money & too little sense, other times it's someone who just spent the money to get what they wanted. In the end, it doesn't really matter what other people think... 












Unless of course, you ask for their opinion on the internet.


----------



## crkwader

fallen513 said:


> In the end, it doesn't really matter what other people think...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless of course, you ask for their opinion on the internet.



hahaha... even then I dont think it really matters.

you defend yourself well fallen, and I thank you for answering my question.


----------



## Ohiomike

I ordered a allen alpha ll fly reel and their flyline. Order Placed on sunday, reel delivered on thursday, i have looked it over and over, very nice looking real, ive talen it about, put it together. Very nice. Best of all its not plastic! I have shyed away from "brand" named "entry"level reels due to plastic drag, etc. Ill get it on the water soon and let ya know, but for looks it kills all reels in the hundred$ and under category


----------



## FLYBUM

I just sold my Ross CLA 1.5. Need to find new reel for my Double L SAGE 5wt. There is a 100% U.S. made reel by ASPEN (on sale for $125) that I'm considering. The reel looks very stout and well made. I'm also torn between U.S. made vs overseas. My CLA was made in the U.S. but had an annoying squeak and was made with impact resistant plastic drag system. In my opinion, I'm a purist who does not fall for the marketing hype and glitz over fancy arty reels, or brand names that cost a small fortune. I mean, how ridiculous that a simple mechanical reel, which used to do the job well enough, can now cost triple over a more complicated high quality spinner or baitcast reel. I think the sport of fly fishing has gone bunkers and become elitistshame, really.


----------



## Clayton

FLYBUM said:


> I mean, how ridiculous that a simple mechanical reel, which used to do the job well enough, can now cost triple over a more complicated high quality spinner or baitcast reel. I think the sport of fly fishing has gone bunkers and become elitistshame, really.



I don't know if I agree with that... I think part of that is that the spinning and casting reels are such volume products that a smaller profit margin per unit is still sustainable for the company that makes it. Fly fisherman are a smaller market served by a lot of companies. there is less market share per company, and they do not move enough reels to allow for the narrow profit margins of a company like shimano.

Being low volume, or in the case of the hatch reels extremely low volume, the reels are nearly pieces of art. It takes a lot of profit to make the money back when your dont sell very many... unless you have them made in china, I suppose. But even that requires investment, and the anticipation of higher volume sales, to commit to.

In summation, economics are really odd.
Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## FLYBUM

Clayton, good follow up. I'm looking at it from the consumer vs manufacturer's view. If you have the chance look up ASPEN REELS. They are out California, and they manufacture their own. I'm not affiliated with this company, but this high quality, low volume, fully machined reel is a good example of a U.S. made reel for a good price (sale for $126). They also offer a 100% money back guarantee.


----------



## Patricio

FLYBUM said:


> I think the sport of fly fishing has gone bunkers and become elitistshame, really.


it always was an 'elitist' sport for the most part. the last 20 years has seen it go in a different direction. 

the prices on quality used reels is rising. the english made orvis battenkills and cfos are steadily climbing. the gunnisons are also going up. get yours while you can. 

I seldom if ever buy a new reel. my preference for reels is no longer being made. and the few that are are expensive. 

heres a great spey reel though, they make a trout model, too. I plan on picking one up before summer.
high quality, handmade in the US for around $300.
http://www.speyco.net/


----------



## ARReflections

If you like click and pawl check out some of the old reels like Martin. I just got a Martin LM45. Made in the US for $50 and is pretty much like the old Orvis CFOs without the price tag...


----------



## FLYBUM

Elitist is probably an understatement, or overstatement on my part. After researching yesterday for more reels, I found a few retailers who sell trout reels for over $1500.00!! Yes, they are extremely well made with the highest attention to detail. These are not your Abels, Hardys, Nautilus either. They are names I have never heard of. One could look at this as Swiss watch making. You can buy a good Swiss quartz for a couple of hundred bucks, or cater to the deep wallet clientele with discriminating taste wanting something more custom like the Swiss Vacheron Constantin that costs several hundreds of thousands. If I were a reel designer and manufacturer, I would probably hone my craft to serve those who can afford my product too.


----------



## sbreech

FLYBUM said:


> Elitist is probably an understatement, or overstatement on my part. After researching yesterday for more reels, I found a few retailers who sell trout reels for over $1500.00!! Yes, they are extremely well made with the highest attention to detail. These are not your Abels, Hardys, Nautilus either. They are names I have never heard of. One could look at this as Swiss watch making. You can buy a good Swiss quartz for a couple of hundred bucks, or cater to the deep wallet clientele with discriminating taste wanting something more custom like the Swiss Vacheron Constantin that costs several hundreds of thousands. If I were a reel designer and manufacturer, I would probably hone my craft to serve those who can afford my product too.


Why not cater to everyone, like most auto manufacturers. Heck, look at GM. Remember the Cadillac Cimmaron? It was the same car as the Chevy Cavalier - only with bling. Some people want to spend more, some could only pay less.  A smart company will take everyone's money.
[/COLOR] 
And there is a fine line between "best" and "excess." To each their own though....

-Steve


----------



## FLYBUM

Funny thing about BMW and Mercedes: they are a dime-a-dozen in Germany. In fact, taxi drivers drive Mercedes because they are reliable. As a German born, I drove BMW, loved the cars performance. The IM5 is super fine, but sucked oil. But these cars are also seen as status symbols than practical driving machines. The same is true for fishing and hunting equipment&#8212;for some, it's all about status and name recognition. Steve, you are right, if the market is there and people are willing to spend more, so be it&#8212;I have no problem with it.


----------



## Patricio

$1500? eh. chump change. I've got one reel thats worth $2500. a Dr. Paul Herman baby trout. I didnt pay nearly that much. heard he wasnt making them anymore and all his was spoken for. looked around found 2 for $750 each. bought one. its skyrocketed in value. 

dr. paul herman is a country doctor in maine. he made reels as a hobby. they are works of art.
here it is here, not mine but the same thing:http://www.westslopefly.com/reels/dsp_reelDetails.cfm?reelID=241

I need a bogdan to finish it off. but theyre also over $2k.

a few of the higher end reel makers even make their own screws for the reels. its all done by hand, no cnc machining. 

the most expensive new reel I can think of is a maurice noel titanium, its about $4k new.

if youve ever had the pleasure of handling one and are familiar with reels of all sorts, the quality and attention to detail stands out. even the clicking sounds different.

me, I collect mcneese reels. heres one of mine here.


----------



## fishmerf

Like most fishing equipment sold, some of it is made with the intention of catching more fish, and some of it is made with intentions of catching fisherman. 
Reels? I have a few. The trout never seem to be all that interested in them. I think they're pretty.


----------



## sbreech

fishmerf said:


> Reels? I have a few. The trout never seem to be all that interested in them. I think they're pretty.


I feel the same way with fly reels. 
[/COLOR] 
For me, fly fishing means stepping away from it all and making things as simple (not in the "easy" sense) as possible. Just me against the fish. The rod is the leverage. I am the drag. Just me against the fish. I want the fight to be against me and the fish, and I want the equipment to mean something to me, and be an heirloom to pass down to my daughter and her grandchildren if she ever has any kids of her own. For ME, that means a little bit of American pride. Maybe I'm too late for that, I don't know, but it's just how I feel personally. I like a solidly built reel, aesthetically pleasing (to me), functional, affordable, and made in America. I do have some Chinese made reels - but I'm phasing them out. Are they solid, functional, affordable, and aesthetically pleasing? Yes. But they do not meet my 5th criteria. From this point forward, I won't budge.

Having said all those words above, the Allen reels look very nice. They look pretty solid, and would probably do the job just right. Had I not had my current comming-of-mindset, I'd give one a try, but for me, I echo Fallen's words.


----------



## TheCream

Patricio said:


> it always was an 'elitist' sport for the most part. the last 20 years has seen it go in a different direction.
> 
> *the prices on quality used reels is rising. the english made orvis battenkills and cfos are steadily climbing*. the gunnisons are also going up. get yours while you can.
> 
> I seldom if ever buy a new reel. my preference for reels is no longer being made. and the few that are are expensive.
> 
> heres a great spey reel though, they make a trout model, too. I plan on picking one up before summer.
> high quality, handmade in the US for around $300.
> http://www.speyco.net/


The reel on my 5wt is the first fly reel I ever bought, an English-made Battenkill. The guy at my local shop (Orvis dealer) told me the reel is worth more now than what I paid for it 8-9 years ago.


----------



## Andrew S

Patricio said:


> heres a great spey reel though, they make a trout model, too. I plan on picking one up before summer.
> high quality, handmade in the US for around $300.
> http://www.speyco.net/


Those are nice looking reels. Seems a bit ironic, though, that a company that wants to brag about being American made would call itself "The Spey Company". It would be as if a Korean company decided to call itself "The Potomac Company".


----------



## Patricio

Andrew S said:


> Those are nice looking reels. Seems a bit ironic, though, that a company that wants to brag about being American made would call itself "The Spey Company". It would be as if a Korean company decided to call itself "The Potomac Company".


they originally made only reels for spey rods.

people caught onto the quality of the older reels. a early 70s era battenkill in good condition fetched $80 a few years back, now it fetches twice that.


----------



## ARReflections

Andrew S said:


> Those are nice looking reels. Seems a bit ironic, though, that a company that wants to brag about being American made would call itself "The Spey Company". It would be as if a Korean company decided to call itself "The Potomac Company".


That's pretty funny! Oh by the way, if anyone would like to go all American with their gear then I will grudgingly take your old Hardy, Orvis and Scientific Angler rods and reels. After all, can't be supporting them fellas across the channel.


----------



## Andrew S

Patricio said:


> they originally made only reels for spey rods.



I think you missed my point.


----------



## Patricio

Andrew S said:


> I think you missed my point.


no, I got it, I just ignored it.


----------



## Wbranch

*My Bad! I just noticed the date of this post about reels. Sorry to have brought back an item that died peacefully four years ago.
*
Someone made this comment;


> Some of the casting are forged afterwards before finished machining. This helps to purge out any small voids and makes a stronger reel.


I'm not a casting expert but did spend my entire working career in machining and the plant where I worked (General Dynamics) had forging capabilities.

There are multiple casting processes some of them are pretty basic and others like "investment casting:" and "lost wax" casting can replicate much more intricate, and complex shapes, but of course are much more expensive. For the sake of my comment I'm going to assume since most cast fly reels are manufactured in that manner to bring the price down, and are not marvels of engineering, it is then likely that the least expensive method of casting will be employed to make the reel.

Casting differs vastly from hot, or cold, forging in that a pattern is constructed, usually out of sand, or other mediums and the parent metal is placed as ingots into an electric, or gas, furnace. The furnace melts the ingot to a liquid state and the molten metal is transferred in some manner to gravity feed into the pattern or mold. Once the metal has been poured the product moves along on a track to some location where it can either be cooled naturally or possibly be immersed to somewhat harden or toughen the casting. You have to remember that the ductility of a casting is entirely different than that of a reel, or any product, machined from a billet of aluminum. The nature of the casting process just pours liquid metal into the mold and it is quite brittle and thin sections can easily break.

A forging is typically hot formed. In this process a blank forging of just the approximate size and shape of the finished product is inserted into an electric furnace and brought up to a cherry red temperature. It is inserted into a female die set comprised of multiple stations. The first is rough sizing, then semi finish sizing, and finally finish forging. The ram of the forge repeatedly strikes the blank driving it into the female die. Since the hot metal is not molten the repeated ram strikes make the material flow and create ideal metallurgical conditions of strength and the flow eliminates any stress risers that often occur at sharp corners in the casting process.

As I alluded to in my first comment I'm not a casting authority but based on my knowledge of castings, forgings, and machining I do not believe that there is a process where a cast structure would then be forged prior to finish machining. The inherent brittleness, and lack of ductility, in the casting would preclude any productive outcome by striking it with a ram. I would imagine the grain structure, and lack of plasticity, would just destroy the reel housing and spool.

But maybe I'm not as smart as I think I am Ha! It all goes back to economics; if the goal is to manufacture a pretty good product for as little expense as is possible, so many people will buy it, doesn't it then make sense to not add any additional processes that will diminish the ROI?


----------

