# Told to get off Sciota HELP!



## justromas (Apr 10, 2010)

I have been wading Sciota for 30 yrs and at times finding a place to sit on the bank and fish. I settled on the bank in the same spot I always have. The first house north of Sciota Park on the east side no more then to feet on the bank. Lady came out and told me this is private property. I argued her point and she couldn't tell me where her property line is. 
I have not contacted any zoning commissions yet and thought I would post this situation hoping someone would have some insight on this problem. 
I Love to fish rivers and this is my favorite spot in our area. Thirty years and now this. Help!


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## ohiohunter43015 (Feb 23, 2009)

I hate to say this but she is right. The property line runs to the middle of the river in 99% of these cases. The Scioto is considered a public waterway but that is only for the water. The land beneth the river is owned privetly. That means you can canoe or kayak that part of the river and she can't say anything. The moment something comes in contact with the bottom anchor or feet you are trespassing. It's often a mis understood law when people read "Public Waterway". Sorry about your luck. I have lost several places to fish due to new ownership of property. Just the way some people are now a days.


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## justromas (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks for the post. My dad lives on Hoover on the Redbank side and his property line does not run to the water nor does anybody else's. If someone wants to step off their boat and fish that is their right because it is Gov. land. He can't even trim back brush. I guess there are different laws for different waterways.


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## firefishfighter (Sep 28, 2009)

Coal miner hit the nail on the head I ran into a similar situation where the game warden was called and if you are on the river bed you are trespassing! You could also try a float tube if you dont canoe of kayak most people wont be so stingy with there river bottom  so its unfortunate that you ran into one. Good luck with everything I mainly fish rivers to so I feel your pain


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

If there were a few very legitimate organizations trying to get this law changed, would you all be willing to support it through petitions and letter writing campaigns?


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## meckhardt (Jun 5, 2009)

Bubbagon said:


> If there were a few very legitimate organizations trying to get this law changed, would you all be willing to support it through petitions and letter writing campaigns?


Absolutely! It wouldn't be easy, there is an intense private property right attitude in the Ohio Senate.


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## Ðe§perado™ (Apr 15, 2004)

Just go to the tax assessors office and look up the area your fishing. It will show the property lines and who is paying taxes on that land. Then go see that person and get permission. You can look in platt maps also.
I have done this and when people come to tell you to leave and they found out you know they don't own it, they shut up right away.


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## ohiohunter43015 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bubbagon said:


> If there were a few very legitimate organizations trying to get this law changed, would you all be willing to support it through petitions and letter writing campaigns?


Not my intention but I guarantee this will light a fire... 

I have typed this out 3 times and each time I come off like an *** and I can't think of a better way to put it. The property line stretching to the middle is factored in to the cost of the property. If I spent the money to buy water front property and some one tried to turn that public I would not be a happy camper! I wouldn't purchase river front property that I could not control. The saying "a few bad apples" comes to mind. While most people are respectful enough to take care of something valued not everyone is that mature. I greatly appreciate the property owners that do let me fish and I have earned that right through permission. Even though I am not a property owner at this time I would have to say I wouldn't support anything like that. I am happy enough to be able to canoe it.


I will add though the feeling of losing a good fishing spot is about the same as running into an electric fence at night!


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Bubbagon said:


> If there were a few very legitimate organizations trying to get this law changed, would you all be willing to support it through petitions and letter writing campaigns?



No, I support personal property rights. Those that pay for it have the right to police their property any way the choose.


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

justromas said:


> Thanks for the post. My dad lives on Hoover on the Redbank side and his property line does not run to the water nor does anybody else's. If someone wants to step off their boat and fish that is their right because it is Gov. land. He can't even trim back brush. I guess there are different laws for different waterways.


Hoover is a resevoir and all resevoirs have a flood plain. The city and/or state(whichever owns it) will have ownership of the flood plain. This is why in many cases private land that borders a resevoir does not have a property line that extends to the water's edge. Completely different for rivers. The information Ohiohunter gave you was 100% accurate.


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## Welsh Dragon (Jun 18, 2008)

This has been discussed many times on this forum. I know it's not always ideal and easier for a tall dude like me, but if you try to stay closer to the middle of the river you won't have nearly as many problems with property owners. I don't know if they all know I am walking on their land since it's in the river. 
Also, I am not sure how good your spot is going to be now anyway. Posting the exact location on this forum may put some incredible pressure on the spot.


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## ohiohunter43015 (Feb 23, 2009)

Welsh Dragon said:


> This has been discussed many times on this forum. I know it's not always ideal and easier for a tall dude like me, but if you try to stay closer to the middle of the river you won't have nearly as many problems with property owners. I don't know if they all know I am walking on their land since it's in the river.
> Also, I am not sure how good your spot is going to be now anyway. Posting the exact location on this forum may put some incredible pressure on the spot.


As a matter of fact this past fall someone posted the exact same thing about the exact same spot. I will see if I can hunt up the thread.


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## ohiohunter43015 (Feb 23, 2009)

And here it is....


Lerxst said:


> Looking for some advice.
> 
> If you read my initial welcome, I am a newbie to Columbus post, you know I have been searching for some quality spots for smallies and eyes, especially on the Scioto.
> 
> ...


20 bucks and a bag of Walleye says its the same lady!


Here is the whole thread http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=126181&highlight=Scioto%2BPark%2Blady


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

I fish the river and have had the same thing happen to me so I feel for you to, when I hit one spot I am about as low profile as a person can get(meaning I dont carry hardly a thing in with me, dont make alot of noise or stand right out in the open) but yet still got ran out by a lady, I got ran out late in the fall when there were no leaves on the trees so I was a little more noticeable, had it been any other time she would have never seen me.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Federal laws keep navigable rivers in the trust of the people up to the high water mark.

I don't want to walk in your yard, I just want to be able to paddle by. But right now if my paddle hits the bottom, or my fishing lure hits the bottom, I'm trespassing.

There's a happy medium that 
A. respects the rights of the landowner
B. gives outdoors men access to the rivers
C. clearly defines the law.

Right now, NONE of those things exist.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

How about a $500 Wader's license that gives you the right to fish any river and the money goes back to people with river property?


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## bstew (May 2, 2005)

I have talked with many game wardens over the years, and even the Dublin police and I have to disagree with all of the posts. My understanding as of several years ago, is that it's only trespassing if the person owns the property on both sides of the river. I was told, again by several law officers that there is a fisherman's tolerance and we are allowed to wade and even get out of the water if neccessary, as long as we do not disturb the property. There technically is no "property line" per se on river front property, it is based on the water levels. I would very much like to know if this has changed at all or not. I also have waded the same stretch of river for many years and have been told to leave. I would never get nasty with a home owner, but this is the reason that I asked the police as well as a game wardens in several other parks.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Property line doesn't run to the middle of the Scioto. I'm willing to bet someone $100 dollars on that. If I was wading in the Scioto at that spot, I would have literally told the lady to go lay an egg (in kinder words). People need to learn their property lines. Property extending to the middle of the river is not a one size fits all kind of situation, especially on the Scioto. The police have backed me up on that in the past.

But it seems that since you were on the bank, you were indeed probably on her property.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Here is actual map data from the Scioto in Delaware Cty. south of O'Shaughnessy. You will notice that there are no spots where someone's parcel goes to the center of the river.

If you want to search further, you can attain deed information about each specific property on the Scioto River. Each describes the property line to be set at the water line or high water mark. No mention of middle of river. Middle of river property lines are common on smaller streams or streams that were not used as public routes of commerce way back when.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

crittergitter said:


> Hoover is a resevoir and all resevoirs have a flood plain. The city and/or state(whichever owns it) will have ownership of the flood plain. This is why in many cases private land that borders a resevoir does not have a property line that extends to the water's edge. Completely different for rivers. The information Ohiohunter gave you was 100% accurate.


Hoover, unlike some other lakes, is buffered by city owned land. No one owns up to the water. This was done for a reason.


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## ohiohunter43015 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mushijobah said:


> Property line doesn't run to the middle of the Scioto. I'm willing to bet someone $100 dollars on that.


Yes but is a hell of a lot easier to explain than the "Mean high water mark" you are right Mushi but I have never heard one person outside of a court room say "Yea I only one this much land when the river is flooded." Unless your a survyor or a lawyer that don't make a bit of sense. To the average person and most law enforcement the middle of the river works just fine and it is enforced that way. Just my experience I am sure others have had there own experiences.


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## ErieWolverine (Apr 9, 2010)

Fishing the rivers has always been a hot topic. does anyone really know the answer to this one or is it all "he said she said"? There has to be and answer to keep us out of hot water!


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

ohiohunter43015 said:


> Yes but is a hell of a lot easier to explain than the "Mean high water mark" you are right Mushi but I have never heard one person outside of a court room say "Yea I only one this much land when the river is flooded." Unless your a survyor or a lawyer that don't make a bit of sense. To the average person and most law enforcement the middle of the river works just fine and it is enforced that way. Just my experience I am sure others have had there own experiences.


Well if you are dealing with the Scioto, it is better to get the facts straight. The lines are clearly written in the deeds along the river. None goto the center. It varies by case, but if you look at the map I provided (from Delaware Cty. Auditor's site), you can easily see where it is safe to wade without being verbally assaulted by geriatrics. Not trying to be a know-it-all here, it just ticks me off when people are booted from places they are aloud to fish. Keep in mind, being on dry ground wasn't legal in this case . This topic comes up every few months, so I figure I will deposit my $.02 every time it does


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

ErieWolverine said:


> Fishing the rivers has always been a hot topic. does anyone really know the answer to this one or is it all "he said she said"? There has to be and answer to keep us out of hot water!


Just do your homework on each spot you plan to fish, and you will be fine. Scioto is a rarity. No other stream in Central Ohio is marked in such a way. That's why you will find multiple public launches along its entirety. It is recognized by the state that you can boat, anchor, wade it. That's why duck hunters like it so much


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## ohiohunter43015 (Feb 23, 2009)

The whole thing can be summed up in four words "Country Mouse / City Mouse"


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## armour1265 (Sep 29, 2009)

Below is a link to a good summary of this issue. The law is clear that the adjoining landowner owns to the middle of the river unless the deed expressly provides otherwise. If the problem landowner only owns on one side, simply wade on the side she does not own. If she does own both sides, take some type of flotation device, kayak, or canoe and make sure your feet are off the bottom.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/4158/Default.aspx


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## ohiohunter43015 (Feb 23, 2009)

Armour- Nice 3rd post! lol


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

armour1265 said:


> Below is a link to a good summary of this issue. The law is clear that the adjoining landowner owns to the middle of the river unless the deed expressly provides otherwise. If the problem landowner only owns on one side, simply wade on the side she does not own. If she does own both sides, take some type of flotation device, kayak, or canoe and make sure your feet are off the bottom.
> 
> http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/4158/Default.aspx


So you cannot anchor in the Scioto, Muskingum, or Ohio river? Under your vauge analysis and 'one size fits all' explaination, that is so. Call the county recorder and have them explain to you about deeds along the Scioto River. I'm not getting paid enough to do it Maybe everyone should listen to this so no one fishes my spots anymore.

*ATTENTION: Kayaking, canoeing, boating, and fishing is now illegal on all stretches of the Scioto River that are not explicitly designated as park/publicly property. If your lure touches the bottom, you are trespassing. If you anchor, you are trespassing. If you bump a few rocks going through a riffle, you are trespassing. If you get out to go tinkle, you are trespassing. If you cannot get around a logjam, and have to get out to drag your vessel, you are trespassing.

This was a PSA from all who read a few sentences in a dumb-ed down stream navigation guide, and think those few words fully describe all laws and apply to every body of water in the state.*


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

I agree you should not be allowed to walk on the bank. But for peet sake we should be allowed to be in the streambed. Lets keep in mind these homes that are built in flood plains are an expense to all of us. Insurance, pollution and probably other factors. It's a two way street. Next they'll be allowed to take all the water out that crosses their land. ( i.e. Colorado River )


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## ohiohunter43015 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mushijobah said:


> Maybe everyone should listen to this so no one fishes my spots anymore.
> 
> *ATTENTION: Kayaking, canoeing, boating, and fishing is now illegal on all stretches of the Scioto River that are not explicitly designated as park/publicly property. If your lure touches the bottom, you are trespassing. If you anchor, you are trespassing. If you bump a few rocks going through a riffle, you are trespassing. If you get out to go tinkle, you are trespassing. If you cannot get around a logjam, and have to get out to drag your vessel, you are trespassing.
> 
> *


I can live with that!


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

ohiohunter43015 said:


> I can live with that!


OK well now I know where you're coming from


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## armour1265 (Sep 29, 2009)

Relax. I was just trying to help with a problem landowner situation. I realize this is not a problem 99% of the time but the law is what it is. I was just trying to provide some factual and useful information to help out the original poster. I'll just make this my 4th and last post so as to not offend you with any further dumbed down legal analysis.


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

Mushijobah said:


> Property line doesn't run to the middle of the Scioto. I'm willing to bet someone $100 dollars on that.


http://franklincountyoh.metacama.com/do/selectDisplay?select=GIS&curpid=27300843300#ptop

I live about a half mile from here. You can drop my money off any time!


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

armour1265 said:


> Relax. I was just trying to help with a problem landowner situation. I realize this is not a problem 99% of the time but the law is what it is. I was just trying to provide some factual and useful information to help out the original poster. I'll just make this my 4th and last post so as to not offend you with any further dumbed down legal analysis.


Bear with me here, I too was trying to help my fellow angler. I tend to support wading, especially when it's legal. The law is what it is in many areas of Ohio (Alum, Big Walnut, Olentangy). That law clearly isn't applicable here (or the Muskingum, Maumee). It's all in the deeds my friend, stemming back to the early 1800s in some cases. I've spent way too many hours at the Franklin/Delaware Cty. Recorder to think otherwise. Do a lil research and you will be surprised.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Muskarp said:


> http://franklincountyoh.metacama.com/do/selectDisplay?select=GIS&curpid=27300859500#ptop
> 
> I live about a half mile from here. You can drop my money off any time!


Link didn't work. All I found was some guy named Alan's house . Whose name should I type in? I looked at the river directly East of said house, and the lines stop at the river's edge. The lines don't extend below the river unless you are looking below Griggs or O'shaughnessy. Special situation in those spots, City owned. Public, none the less I think you should pay me now that you have accepted my challenge


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

Mushijobah said:


> Link didn't work. All I found was some guy named Alan's house . Whose name should I type in? The lines don't extend below the river unless you are looking below Griggs or O'shaughnessy. Special situation in those spots, City owned. Public, none the less


Try it again. I didn't know you were reading them like IM's. I had to check it myself and realized the Auditor site will not hold the zoomed area w/o an address. Wise one. Bring the money!


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Muskarp said:


> Try it again. I didn't know you were reading them like IM's. I had to check it myself and realized the Auditor site will not hold the zoomed area w/o an address. Wise one. Bring the money!


Holy crap, I know the person just north of that house! Look at the river around there....no other lots extend that far into the stream. I would like to read their deed to determine what the dashed line extending into the river means. Definitely unique for the Scioto, but it doesn't join with another property on the other side. I guess since I now know your name and where you live, I can deliver a personal check directly


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

I do wish! 
There is only four or five properties that extend that far. So pass this info on to all who wade from the park north. Stay to the west shore.


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## jcotsmallie (Nov 1, 2009)

Okay...Id just like to but in with my own personal adventures from walking river. I was walking Walnut and came to a house right next to where i had juat caught a nice smallie <------(my avatar over to the left actually) but anyway a lady comes out and says " excuse me you cant fish here and i said are you sure because at the time i was told you can walk 3 feet out of both banks because there was a 3 foot ease way. Of course she came back with uh no ive lived here 15 years i think i know. But we kept bickering in a way but more we talked more we socialized and i told her as i pulled my empty pop bottle out of my back pocket even with my emtpy grub bag in it and candy wrapper i said i dont litter i keep all my trash and i put back every fish i catch . My dad even picks up trash where we park for that reason so homeowners dont complain. But of course she said doesnt matter i have to many people leaving beer cans and trash and what not. So later i called odnr number on fishing liscenes and talked to guy. He said if they own land on one side of the river then they own the land to the middle of the river. If they own both sides then they own the whole river bed. However they dont own the water you can float on it and they cant say a thing. Ohio owns the water and the fish. Your line even touching the bottom can be trespassing. Talked to a guy lives next to my friend works for odnr and he said its a very hot and touchy subject as much of you guys are saying. A point he brought up in our defense is were paying this money for fishing liscenes and what not and bait taxes which is paying for fish we fish for and what not but they get shot over spillways and pushed down rivers from floods and swim up other streams and rivers for spawing but yet we cant fish for them? I think river fishing is the best fishing and something should be done about it or something. Big hopes i know. If i city says hey we want to put a highway or road through your property they can but so much trouble with walking through water? I know it cost but still. We pay the taxes...up the lisences to 20 might as well be 20 now anyway. Also what the one guy said make a wading permit or something. Not 500 but but something to where homeowners get a roality check every month for nothing or even lower there property tax but in order to get the lower rate they must let fishers fish the riverbanks and the extra dollar on the liscenes would cover it or something. Sorry so long and sloppy but its late and i hate were not aloud to take advantage of this great fishing haha.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

I talled to a game warden years back about the 3ft deal and his response to me was that the rivers/streams flood so often that if we get a descent rain you can end up fishing in the middle of the landowners yard.


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## oucat (Aug 18, 2005)

I think the law in Ohio is outdated, against public policy, and against judicial trends. If anyone is interested look at the Utah case of Conatser v. Johnson for an interesting argument. I dont know if an Ohio court would rule this way, but you never know.


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## GABO (Apr 4, 2008)

mushijobah...........was your last post supposed to read i'm sorry i was wrong but it got jumbled with a bunch of extra words. tresspass on my stream bed and it will take more than your $100 to pay your fine when i persue charges on you. 

one thing to note ohio law states that you can not tresspass onto anothers private property if it is posted as such or not. but most courts will require something to show that the land owner is posting their property in a manner as to provide the public to understand that the property is private. 

one place not realized that people are trepassing is on the licking river in the black hand gorge. you are permitted to float through there on the water. you are not allowed to wade or anchor or tie off in the gorge, due to the fact that they only allow you in the NA on designated trails and paths. trust me officer seymore will let you know this. 

if ppl just approach land owners prior to fishing most ppl will be more willing to allow you to fish. show your repsect to them and you might get some back. sometimes ppl dont want others on their property no matter what and i can't say that i blame them. make sure that you know your laws. ignorance does not let you get away with breaking them. good luck.

GABO


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

GABO said:


> one thing to note ohio law states that you can not tresspass onto anothers private property if it is posted as such or not. but most courts will require something to show that the land owner is posting their property in a manner as to provide the public to understand that the property is private.
> 
> GABO


Read the law again, it specifically states that you have to be _notified_ that you are on private property before you can be charged with trespass. If I am walking on my field I can walk onto your field anytime I please (and be well within my legal means to do so) up until the point I am notified your land is private, at which point I must vacate your property or be charged with trespassing.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

You sir are the ignorant one. I simply stated this is the case on the *SCIOTO RIVER*. NOT Licking River. NOT Big Walnut Creek. Use your reading skills. It seems you only became infuriated with the fact that I wasn't agreeing with people, and assumed that I was referring to all streams. We all know what they say about ASS-U-ming. You could fight and waste money in court all day long (it has been done on the River with duck hunters) and nothing will happen. Why? Your deed explicitly states that your land does NOT extend to the center of the SCIOTO RIVER. Property lines extend to the center of streams in most of Ohio, with a few rare exceptions (Scioto, Maumee, Muskingum, Ohio Rivers). I wouldn't lie to you and I've done my research in this unique situation. 

Looks like all those EXTRA WORDS you overlooked were infact important afterall. If you have land on the Scioto, tell me where. I'll be glad to do the research on your deed and tell you about your own property lines.

And a single wade/float on most rivers/creeks would entail going to 50 landowners to ask if walking/floating through their land (with a chance of touching bottom, OH NO!) is ok. Sorry, I'll risk getting yelled at by the elderly, or being asked to move along. Try that on the Scioto, and I'll laugh.



GABO said:


> mushijobah...........was your last post supposed to read i'm sorry i was wrong but it got jumbled with a bunch of extra words. tresspass on my stream bed and it will take more than your $100 to pay your fine when i persue charges on you.
> 
> one thing to note ohio law states that you can not tresspass onto anothers private property if it is posted as such or not. but most courts will require something to show that the land owner is posting their property in a manner as to provide the public to understand that the property is private.
> 
> ...


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

Original poster said he was "on the bank". Maybe if he had been wading there would be no reaction?


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## GABO (Apr 4, 2008)

i invite all of you boys to come walk on my property and see if you are greeted with a shotgun. posted or not if you are on it you are trespassing, period, according to ohio's laws. you can say all you want oh i didnt know and in court we'll see who is wrong. 

Mushroom you are correct about one thing most of your posts are full of useless words. to be honest im not too worried about the fishing locations that are mentioned here by most posters as they are on locations that i do not fish. i just do not like to see information given out to ppl that they can just do what they want on private property. besides if i posted my game fish numbers in the middle of april and they were under 25 i would not call myself a fisherman.

Ask any LEO in ohio if you can just walk onto someones private property and see what they say. 

Good luck to all you who like to wade legally in the state of ohio.

GABO


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## I_Shock_Em (Jul 20, 2008)

sure sounds like GABO is a guy I'd want to fish with....not


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## oucat (Aug 18, 2005)

People getting fired up and giving threats about pulling shotguns on others is hilarious. Thanks for the entertainment.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

PM me your address and if I determine your deed says your property line goes to the river bank, I'll be there. Heck I'll set up my duck decoys there too this season. If it's on the Scioto, I'll be there tomorow morning!

As for 'greeting me with a shotgun', that will get you thrown in jail. If you brandish a gun in a threatening manner towards someone, you are threatening someone's life. That's a crime (ask any LEO ), and a good way to get shot yourself. You never know who has CCW these days.

People use words to be specific. You failed to read what I had to say accurately and made assumptions. That resulted in you looking a bit silly. No hard feelings on this end, hopefully you aren't too upset. I don't know you, but it seems that you have been reading a lot of my posts. Looks like I have a fan!:bananahuge:



GABO said:


> i invite all of you boys to come walk on my property and see if you are greeted with a shotgun. posted or not if you are on it you are trespassing, period, according to ohio's laws. you can say all you want oh i didnt know and in court we'll see who is wrong.
> 
> Mushroom you are correct about one thing most of your posts are full of useless words. to be honest im not too worried about the fishing locations that are mentioned here by most posters as they are on locations that i do not fish. i just do not like to see information given out to ppl that they can just do what they want on private property. besides if i posted my game fish numbers in the middle of april and they were under 25 i would not call myself a fisherman.
> 
> ...


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## DelawareAngler (Mar 19, 2009)

Personal experience just fyi

someone calls us about tresspassing in their river.

i go to their house, they point out the tresspasser.

i walk towards the river, ask the guy if he can politely walk about 30 yards down stream to get out of their area

i explain to the landowner, yes you own the property, but lets all be civilized human beings and allow someone to walk down the river, if he comes up on your actual river bank then ill be back.

have a nice day.

moral of story dont be an ass to the landowners, walk just far enough to not have to deal with them, and when the po-po come just say sorry you didnt realize you were tresspassing. 99.9% of delaware or franklin county law enforcement will not right fisherman for tresspassing if they are wading. 

Now littering, that is a different story.


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## DelawareAngler (Mar 19, 2009)

GABO said:


> i invite all of you boys to come walk on my property and see if you are greeted with a shotgun. posted or not if you are on it you are trespassing, period, according to ohio's laws. you can say all you want oh i didnt know and in court we'll see who is wrong.
> 
> Mushroom you are correct about one thing most of your posts are full of useless words. to be honest im not too worried about the fishing locations that are mentioned here by most posters as they are on locations that i do not fish. i just do not like to see information given out to ppl that they can just do what they want on private property. besides if i posted my game fish numbers in the middle of april and they were under 25 i would not call myself a fisherman.
> 
> ...


I think ive arrested this guy before...

lol i believe he is part of the huratee group out of northern ohio/michigan

in all seriousness, im just as ******* and can be just as backwoods as anyone, but smart hillbillies know when to hold and when to fold....


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Good points there DelawareAngler. 



DelawareAngler said:


> Personal experience just fyi
> 
> someone calls us about tresspassing in their river.
> 
> ...


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## OSUBryan (Aug 26, 2009)

Pretty sure it's not a good idea for GAYBO to point a shotgun at me when I am wading (You might want to leave that to the LEO's). 

I know from wading in different rivers in Ohio that fishermen (Probably not enthusiasts that would join an online fishing community like all of the people reading this) use the riverbed as their personal trash hole. I see ton's of plastic worm containers, beer cans, wine bottles, plastic bags, fishing line, empty cigarette packs/butts, food containers, etc... I lived on a highway for 7 years, and was annoyed with picking up crap out of my ditch all summer long before I was able to mow my grass, so I feel the pain of the land owners. I have been fortunate to not have ever been confronted by a land owner, but if I ever am confronted, I will not argue, I will just apologize and keep on moving up/down the river. I understand GAYBO's and other land owner's frustration. But you are going to shoot me because I am walking on your riverbed? pretty sure that is an empty threat


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## Wiper Swiper (May 24, 2005)

GABO, if you are who I think you are (Mark, right?), the shotgun thing wasn't necessary. Let everybody get to know you before you start pulling your gun...errr...officer. 

Mushi, you did the best you could. Point well taken. Give Mark a little space as he, knows how to fish, kills big deer, and...well...has a license to snuff you via his bag full of drop guns! 

You guys spent some time on this today???

The fish were eatin' turds late this afernoon. Sorry you mised it!


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Ehh, he may be an alright guy, but he might want to be careful who he's talking to. You never know who has a more convincing bag of drop guns . 

And, yes, I did fish today. Few in the bag, nothing special.



Wiper Swiper said:


> GABO, if you are who I think you are (Mark, right?), the shotgun thing wasn't necessary. Let everybody get to know you before you start pulling your gun...errr...officer.
> 
> Mushi, you did the best you could. Point well taken. Give Mark a little space as he, knows how to fish, kills big deer, and...well...has a license to snuff you via his bag full of drop guns!
> 
> ...


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## gump (Apr 5, 2010)

You know i read this and the land owner says he owns the land. But that is only after they had stolen it from my people. There has ben enough blood shed on thous ground. You should be happy you have not ben scalp'd for your words ol big tough one. The river is life for many. I wish you would come to my waters.we are more than glad to help any one we can maybe you could learn what life is about an no i am not saying that we would do anything to you we would show you what life is an the person you point that gun at you may need some day we all should walk soft on these ground's becose they belong to god an we only get to enjoy it for a little while .


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## Wiper Swiper (May 24, 2005)

Mushijobah said:


> Ehh, he may be an alright guy, but he might want to be careful who he's talking to. You never know who has a more convincing bag of drop guns .
> 
> And, yes, I did fish today. Few in the bag, nothing special.


All sign towards me indicates he's alright...I've never met him. Andyman has some kind of strange man love for him, Dan'l, Daggerdave...that's enough for my space.

Nothing special???

Sheesh...maybe it was only *****' lake that was cookin' .


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## armour1265 (Sep 29, 2009)

In case anybody actually cares what the law is, the Ohio Supreme Court has held * "The title of the purchaser of lands bordering on a navigable stream extends to the middle of the stream." *If you want to read the case, try Googling the following citation: Gavit's Adm'rs v. Chambers 3 Ohio 495, 496, 1828 WL 29, 1 (Ohio) (.DecemberTerm 1828)

This holding has held up for over 180 years. The owner of the land adjacent to a watercourse owns to the middle of the riverbed, even if his deed states that the propery line is the watercourse. The only exception is that if a deed expressly states the riverbed is not included (I have never seen a deed express this). If the deed is silent about ownership of the riverbed, the adjoining owner's rights extends to the middle of the riverbed. 

The surveys on deeds typically state the boundary as being the bank of the river for two primary reasons. First, land is bought and sold in acres _terra firma_ and second, surveyors tend to want to keep out of the middle of rivers.

That is the law as established by the Ohio Supreme Court. If you don't agree with it or don't like it, there is an open seat on the Supreme Court.

Fortunately, 99.9% of landowners and recreational users of watercourses are reasonable and respectful of each other. Maybe my "little bit of research" will put this issue to rest and keep anyone from getting shot.


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## helios (Jul 14, 2009)

I own a half acre on the Scioto, and my property deed reads "to the low water mark of the Scioto River". My cousin lives on Paint Creek, and his deed is to the middle of the river. So you can't wade Paint Creek without permission, but you can wade the Scioto in the middle, however its 22 feet deep off my place!!!


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## dre (Aug 14, 2009)

I have waded several rivers/creeks and never had a landowner come out and tell me to leave there property. They basically just ask if I have caught anything, talk about the weather, other small talk like that. All have been very polite. And I have always been respectful and got the hint after speaking with the landowner and moved on downstream. If a landowner did come out and asked me to leave there property, I would gladly move on(unless it was my favorite fishing hole! j/k). Now if a landowner came down with a shutgun(GABO) and threatened me, I believe that is going a little overboard. You sure you weren't overracting a little on your post? If your intent was to put a scare in all the waders out there, it obvoiusly worked...but I will continue to wade no doubt!


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Read the deed of a property along the Scioto. It aint silent. Waterline is mentioned. I was able to access Del. Co.'s online, but cannot figure out how anymore...will do some reasearch. If you see it before I do, let me know. 



armour1265 said:


> In case anybody actually cares what the law is, the Ohio Supreme Court has held * "The title of the purchaser of lands bordering on a navigable stream extends to the middle of the stream." *If you want to read the case, try Googling the following citation: Gavit's Adm'rs v. Chambers 3 Ohio 495, 496, 1828 WL 29, 1 (Ohio) (.DecemberTerm 1828)
> 
> This holding has held up for over 180 years. The owner of the land adjacent to a watercourse owns to the middle of the riverbed, even if his deed states that the propery line is the watercourse. The only exception is that if a deed expressly states the riverbed is not included (I have never seen a deed express this). If the deed is silent about ownership of the riverbed, the adjoining owner's rights extends to the middle of the riverbed.
> 
> ...


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

helios said:


> I own a half acre on the Scioto, and my property deed reads "to the low water mark of the Scioto River". My cousin lives on Paint Creek, and his deed is to the middle of the river. So you can't wade Paint Creek without permission, but you can wade the Scioto in the middle, however its 22 feet deep off my place!!!


AHHH!!! And God parts the clouds to allow a magnificent beam of cleansing light to be spread across the land! The Ignorant are cleansed, and the righteous are set upon a pedestal!

*Hallelujah!!! Hallelujah!!! *

Helios, you are my hero. We now have first hand evidence.


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## armour1265 (Sep 29, 2009)

Helios,

Your deed states the property line as being the low water mark. It does not expressly state that the riverbed is exempted from ownership of the adjoining landowner. Therefore, you own to the middle of the Scioto according to the Ohio Supreme Court.

All I can do is tell you what the law is. I can't make you accept it or follow it. I'm done with this topic, I'd rather talk about something fun like fishing.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

armour1265 said:


> Helios,
> 
> Your deed states the property line as being the low water mark. It does not expressly state that the riverbed is exempted from ownership of the adjoining landowner. Therefore, you own to the middle of the Scioto according to the Ohio Supreme Court.
> 
> All I can do is tell you what the law is. I can't make you accept it or follow it. I'm done with this topic, I'd rather talk about something fun like fishing.


So the property line varies essentially? Don't worry, I don't think anyone will be kayaking, fishing, or wading if the river is Dry According to Federal Law (which WILL supercede state law if taken far enough), Scioto is navigable, and open to the public. Kind of like Weed being legal in Cali...but still being a federal offense. It has been taken to the federal level in the past (so I have heard). It would be cool if someone could find that (those) case(s).


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## "Big" mark the shark (Jan 21, 2010)

I seresly hope he would not pull a gun on me. becose i dont take to kinely to that. an he must be a kowerd to do that. an to post it on here half the members may not even wade. but i bet a few may have that littl pice of paper saying they can carery a gun. so let the jerk lern the hard way. he should just wach who he thretens.i hardly even wade but he still piss's me off just the way he sed it.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

[quote="Big" mark the shark;992581]I seresly hope he would not pull a gun on me. becose i dont take to kinely to that. an he must be a kowerd to do that. an to post it on here half the members may not even wade. but i bet a few may have that littl pice of paper saying they can carery a gun. so let the jerk lern the hard way. he should just wach who he thretens.i hardly even wade but he still piss's me off just the way he sed it.[/quote]

Yeah I think he learned that wasn't the best thing to say. Things have changed on here since 2005 Mr. *G*ot_*A*_*B*uzz_*O*n. OGF don't take kindly to folks threatening them with shotguns. As a cop, you know better


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

Ive been fishing for steelhead for 28 years in northeast ohio, guiding for the past 3 years.... If someones home sits on a lot next to a river and his line goes from point A to point B, and ownes the property on the other side of the bank, posted or not, bank if or " WADE IN THE RIVER", if I am between both of those points, I still need writen perm. from the land owner even if im "IM IN THE WATER".......If there is two differant properties on each side of the river, the line goes down the river.... I have freinds who are in the buis and friends who are not, and those who took the treaspass ticket to court because they said they were wading in the river,,,,,,,,,, LOST! Each state has differant water/land laws, some have whats called a High Water Mark, wich means the public can wade in the river up to the high water mark on the bank, but,,,,,,,, Ohio is not on of them!!!! Heres an kinda exp...... Look at pymatuning lake that sits on the border of ohio and penn. If your on a boat, you can fish anywhere on the lake with an ohio or pa lic. But, if I was to lets say crappie fish and i was wading and crossed over to the pa line, even if im in the water, I still need a pa lic because now im on pa land.

Hope this helps some of you...


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

And B 4 this thread gets any uglier then it has already gotten, It has ran its course. 
In the future, please lets try to keep the threats and name calling out of public threads!


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