# Mid 90's Johnson Oil Injection



## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

Anybody have any badexperiences with mid-late 90's OMC outboard engine oil injector systems? Seems to me, if it isn't working correctly/or at all, it's too late when you know it!!


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## Lake Boat (Aug 21, 2013)

I have a 99,135 Johnson with oil injection.Have had it for 4 years.No problems.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Have a 1991 60hp Evinrude VRO in the drive right now I'm working on for a friend.
On his, the fuel pump/oil pump are actually made in one unit. You can separate the two and rebuild each section for about $170. There's a diaphram in the oil side that if it gets a hole in it, it will either not pump oil or won't pump the right amount. At any rate, with his, removed oil tank, blocked off his oil lines and unplugged necessary wiring. He will mix his oil in gas from now on.
The fuel pump side of the unit is good and is not affected by the oil pump side. If the fuel pump side ever goes bad, there is a replacement fuel pump only that can be bought for about $90 versus buying the original VRO fuel/oil pump unit at about $460.

FWIW...Here's my take on automatic oiling(and it's worth just what you paid for it)
IF a guy is willing to keep up the added regular maintenance of the system, they are ok.
IF all hoses stay in good shape and replaced when needed, they are ok.
IF all the alarms and wiring to alarms are in proper working order, they are ok.

Problem is...many seem to think they only need to dump oil into the
tank when it needs it. They never service the unit like they are supposed to. They never pull the oil reservoir every so often, clean and flush the condensation out that accumulates over a period of time. Therefore, they end up pumping gunked up oily water into their engine.
They never look at the hoses that weather and crack causing them to suck air running engine lean on oil.
And they never have the safety features tested(alarms/wiring) to insure they are working properly in case one of the first two things mentioned happens or some other malfunction occurs causing them to huff an engine.

In short...an automatic oiling system on anything is a mechanical system that is subject to component failure and requires periodic maintenance on the system beyond just keeping oil in it.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

fastwater said:


> Have a 1991 60hp Evinrude VRO in the drive right now I'm working on for a friend.
> On his, the fuel pump/oil pump are actually made in one unit. You can separate the two and rebuild each section for about $170. There's a diaphram in the oil side that if it gets a hole in it, it will either not pump oil or won't pump the right amount. At any rate, with his, removed oil tank, blocked off his oil lines and unplugged necessary wiring. He will mix his oil in gas from now on.
> The fuel pump side of the unit is good and is not affected by the oil pump side. If the fuel pump side ever goes bad, there is a replacement fuel pump only that can be bought for about $90 versus buying the original VRO fuel/oil pump unit at about $460.
> 
> ...


I just acquired one of those, a lightly used 90 horse '96 Johnson on a mint 18 ft Princecraft and frankly you've added to my sketicism! I'd rather mix the oil/gas myself and not have that dark cloud in the back of my mind. That thing malfunctions for 15 seconds at wot and byebye engine! I'm thinking this "improvement/development" in technology was conjured up to put more money in the mfr and repair shops pockets!


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

c. j. stone said:


> I just acquired one of those, a lightly used 90 horse '96 Johnson on a mint 18 ft Princecraft and frankly you've added to my sketicism! I'd rather mix the oil/gas myself and not have that dark cloud in the back of my mind. That thing malfunctions for 15 seconds at wot and byebye engine! I'm thinking this "improvement/development" in technology was conjured up to put more money in the mfr and repair shops pockets!


...and don't forget to add the mandated Federal EPA requirements to that list.
If you decide to keep running the VRO, I would get a manual and service it per their recommendations. And would keep it as full as you can to cut down on as much condensation as you can.


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## steelneyes2 (Jul 19, 2011)

Buuuuuut, no one ever mentions the fact these motors will not idle for long periods of time at 50:1 without loading up the cylinders with carbon and fouling plugs frequently. So there is the maintenance of changing plugs more frequently and running a thorough decarb, especially if you do a lot of idling which is common on almost all of our inland lakes. Sticking a ring with carbon buildup will wipe out a powerhead just as fast as no oil. Have worked on lots of VRO motors in conjunction with a shop that has been a Johnson dealer since 1956. In the last 3 years together we have come across 6 motors with internal piston damage. 5 of those were running premix. The 6th one had the VRO hooked up and the customer ran it with disregard for the overheat warning until the idle stop arm and wiring literally melted to the block. Upon disassembling one of the motors that had run on 50:1 until it cracked a ring, you could barely pass a pencil through all the carbon and soot buildup in the exhaust housing..... Just another opinion to consider. Maintenance is a necessity and the warning lights and horn are there for a reason. If you don't know how to properly do all of your maintenance you shouldn't be messing with your outboard anyway. If you blow through a redlight and wreck your car it's probably not the manufacturers fault you didn't decide to stop.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

In the early 90's they used a small o-ring in the injection pump that was susceptible to the ethanol and would swell up and stick. they changed that to an alcohol resistant o-ring a couple of years later.


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## My Demeyes (Aug 2, 2010)

steelneyes2 said:


> Buuuuuut, no one ever mentions the fact these motors will not idle for long periods of time at 50:1 without loading up the cylinders with carbon and fouling plugs frequently. So there is the maintenance of changing plugs more frequently and running a thorough decarb, especially if you do a lot of idling which is common on almost all of our inland lakes. Sticking a ring with carbon buildup will wipe out a powerhead just as fast as no oil. Have worked on lots of VRO motors in conjunction with a shop that has been a Johnson dealer since 1956. In the last 3 years together we have come across 6 motors with internal piston damage. 5 of those were running premix. The 6th one had the VRO hooked up and the customer ran it with disregard for the overheat warning until the idle stop arm and wiring literally melted to the block. Upon disassembling one of the motors that had run on 50:1 until it cracked a ring, you could barely pass a pencil through all the carbon and soot buildup in the exhaust housing..... Just another opinion to consider. Maintenance is a necessity and the warning lights and horn are there for a reason. If you don't know how to properly do all of your maintenance you shouldn't be messing with your outboard anyway. If you blow through a redlight and wreck your car it's probably not the manufacturers fault you didn't decide to stop.


I have a 1992 90hp with vro removed, no problems runs great, hardly any smoke, no plug fouling issues. A friend has a mid 80s 90hp with vro and it smoked like a freight train and loaded up all the time when trolling. After seeing how much better mine ran, he removed the vro pump on his and it's a new motor, runs better, hardly smokes.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

steelneyes2 said:


> Buuuuuut, no one ever mentions the fact these motors will not idle for long periods of time at 50:1 without loading up the cylinders with carbon and fouling plugs frequently. So there is the maintenance of changing plugs more frequently and running a thorough decarb, especially if you do a lot of idling which is common on almost all of our inland lakes. Sticking a ring with carbon buildup will wipe out a powerhead just as fast as no oil. Have worked on lots of VRO motors in conjunction with a shop that has been a Johnson dealer since 1956. In the last 3 years together we have come across 6 motors with internal piston damage. 5 of those were running premix. The 6th one had the VRO hooked up and the customer ran it with disregard for the overheat warning until the idle stop arm and wiring literally melted to the block. Upon disassembling one of the motors that had run on 50:1 until it cracked a ring, you could barely pass a pencil through all the carbon and soot buildup in the exhaust housing..... Just another opinion to consider. Maintenance is a necessity and the warning lights and horn are there for a reason. If you don't know how to properly do all of your maintenance you shouldn't be messing with your outboard anyway. If you blow through a redlight and wreck your car it's probably not the manufacturers fault you didn't decide to stop.


And isn't it recommended by most all outboard manufacturers to do a periodic(every so many hrs) decarb as part of a maintenance program? Even with the VRO systems as well as other brands of oil injection systems?
Is there something about the internal design of an oil injected engine that is different from outboards that never had oil injection that would make them carbon up faster then an engine without oil injection?
Granted, oil injection reduces the amount of oil used at idle/lower rpm...and an engine without oil injection would most likely carbon up faster then an injected eng. running mostly at idle speeds. But idling most any engine, 2 or 4stroke all the time and never running the engine at WOT is not best for that engine....outboard engine or not and will create excessive carbon buildup. Too, again, decarbing should be a part of a maintenance program.


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## nate44 (Jan 9, 2012)

u tube on disconnecting it
Very easy I did it on mine


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## Riverduck11 (Jul 11, 2013)

I ran an 88 Johnson 90 with the VRO for 5 years. Ran great never had any issues. I thought about removing the VRO and was convinced otherwise. It ran great. I changed the plugs in year 5 but never had an issue. Sold it 2 years ago and it is still going strong for the new owner.


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## Paul Mac (Sep 20, 2014)

Riverduck11 said:


> I ran an 88 Johnson 90 with the VRO for 5 years. Ran great never had any issues. I thought about removing the VRO and was convinced otherwise. It ran great. I changed the plugs in year 5 but never had an issue. Sold it 2 years ago and it is still going strong for the new owner.


ALL modern big 2 stroke engines use automatic oil systems. Mercury, Evinrude, etc. Nobody is removing their Mercury oil pumps! These Johnsons are all over 20 years old now. Change some parts for safe measure. Bought a nice Lund w/ 93 Johnson 120hp V4 VRO. Changed pump, reservoir, and hoses for under $400 new on EBay. Peace of mind and just add oil when needed!


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

My Demeyes said:


> A friend has a mid 80s 90hp with vro and it smoked like a freight train and loaded up all the time when trolling. After seeing how much better mine ran, he removed the vro pump on his and it's a new motor, runs better, hardly smokes.


Very likely was caused by a leaking fuel line, or a bad fuel pump diaphragm. One often overlooked problem is those little plastic snap clamps. They have a tendency to crack, causing an air leak at a hose connection, and causing a lean or rich mixture, depending on which hose is leaking.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

I Fish said:


> Very likely was caused by a leaking fuel line, or a bad fuel pump diaphragm. One often overlooked problem is those little plastic snap clamps. They have a tendency to crack, causing an air leak at a hose connection, and causing a lean or rich mixture, depending on which hose is leaking.


Please explain...Not understanding how just removing the VRO sys. would have made eng. run any better if there was a leaking fuel line or hole in the fuel pump diaphram?


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## fishkiller (Feb 6, 2007)

I have a 99 Johnson that had a VRO system. One problem that I had was in cold weather the oil alarm would go off due to the oil viscosity. Took the VRO off and had to go to hotter plugs due to fouling. Use quite a bit more oil than with the VRO. All in all I think I would have kept the VRO & used XD100 in the winter.


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## My Demeyes (Aug 2, 2010)

I Fish said:


> Very likely was caused by a leaking fuel line, or a bad fuel pump diaphragm. One often overlooked problem is those little plastic snap clamps. They have a tendency to crack, causing an air leak at a hose connection, and causing a lean or rich mixture, depending on which hose is leaking.


It must have been leaking from day 1 then, his father bought it new, and he said it has always smoked like that. The one I have I got used, the motor sat unused for over 10 years. The plastic cover on the vro pump was cracked, so I just replaced it with a premix fuel pump. I know if I premix the fuel it will not run without oil. If anyone wants to rely on a 25+ year old vro pump to keep them running, that's their choice.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

My 1996 70 VRO has been flawless in dependability, but it does load up and smoke like a steam engine, but i rarely troll with it. we pull a tube and ski with it. I couldn't be happier with an outboard motor.


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## My Demeyes (Aug 2, 2010)

Every oil injection system works great, until the day it doesn't. That will just happen to be the last day for your motor. If the fuel pump goes out, you just run out of fuel, vro dies, so does the motor. Everyone's opinion will be different based on different experiences.


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## steelneyes2 (Jul 19, 2011)

fastwater said:


> And isn't it recommended by most all outboard manufacturers to do a periodic(every so many hrs) decarb as part of a maintenance program? Even with the VRO systems as well as other brands of oil injection systems?


Yes, absolutely. But you must increase the frequency of decarbs which has associated costs of expensive cleaner which runs $11 per can in addition to almost doubling the oil consumption of the motor at $30-40 per gallon. 

Is there something about the internal design of an oil injected engine that is different from outboards that never had oil injection that would make them carbon up faster then an engine without oil injection? 
Perhaps not faster. It would just make them do it at the same rate as non injected motors which require frequent decarbing, much more frequent than the average owner usually completes. From the shop standpoint it's a billable, highly profitable procedure so it benefits them to encourage disconnecting perfectly good oilers. 

"Granted, oil injection reduces the amount of oil used at idle/lower rpm...and an engine without oil injection would most likely carbon up faster then an injected eng. running mostly at idle speeds."

Excessive carbon buildup and excessive unburned oil running out the lower unit into the water. Basically a phone call I answered every few days. "Why is my motor leaking oil, is my lower unit damaged....." Never had to answer that one when the oiler is hooked up. 

"But idling most any engine, 2 or 4stroke all the time and never running the engine at WOT is not best for that engine....outboard engine or not and will create excessive carbon buildup." 
Absolutely. Perhaps because I work on lots of motors for guys who fish bass tournaments and many of the lakes they fish up here have numerous large no wake zones I see more problems in this area. Frequently the prescription is to run a tank of fuel conditioner and get out somewhere they can let her rip. But that's a risky proposition if a chunk of carbon breaks loose and gets in the wrong place. 
As far as modern 4 strokes, they've pretty much eliminated most of the carbon problems with fuel injection and the ability to control combustion with a computer and numerous sensors to modify ignition parameters.

As I see it, most boat owners know very little overall about their motors and how they actually work. When premixing, they tend to add "a little extra" oil because they feel it's better to be "safe than sorry" problems as discussed as above become exacerbated. 

The reality is that all of these anecdotal stories aside, a properly functioning warning system and working sensors make it impossible for a motor to run if the oiler fails. It will immediately go into S.L.O.W. and limit the rpms.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

My Demeyes said:


> Every oil injection system works great, until the day it doesn't. That will just happen to be the last day for your motor. If the fuel pump goes out, you just run out of fuel, vro dies, so does the motor. Everyone's opinion will be different based on different experiences.


If the VRO goes out on my Johnson, the engine won't go above idle and the alarm sounds. Been there!!, My old 1992 had issues with VRO


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

The VRO got it's bad reputation from the first generation of them. They didn't have the alarms and fail safes, so, they were replaced by the VRO2. Basically the same system, except with the alarms and ethanol resistance. If you have an original VRO (pre 1986, I think), I would definitely replace it. Otherwise, the VRO2 has been a very dependable system. I've been trusting them for over 20 years, lol. 

An air leak or broken diaphragm will cause excessive smoke because of the way the pump works. You will basically have a rich mixture, not enough gas, so, too much oil.

Read this, and you'll have a much better understanding:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

I just rebuilt my VRO on my 96 and it's great. It hasn't started this easy in a very long time. I won't unhook mine as it's a good system when it's working right. Mine lasted 21 years before i had any trouble with it


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## moondog5814 (Apr 8, 2007)

I have a 1988 90 hp v4 VRO. I usually put a piece of tape on the oil tank to see if the level is going down after a run. On one of my last trips last year, I noticed that the level never moved. I started pre mixing after that, but I still haven't disconnected the tank and wiring. I just need to take a little time and unhook everything. I don't trust the VRO...never did.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

It takes forever to use a tank of oil with the VRO. reason is it's "Variable Rate", only adding more oil when needed. You do need to check the tank for condensation from time to time. I love mine but i also know how to work on it. I don't miss the loading up at idle and the hard to start, fog bank that usually accompanies too much oil at idle. Mine is a 1996, the first year for the updated pump.


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

steelneyes2 said:


> Yes, absolutely. But you must increase the frequency of decarbs which has associated costs of expensive cleaner which runs $11 per can in addition to almost doubling the oil consumption of the motor at $30-40 per gallon.
> 
> Is there something about the internal design of an oil injected engine that is different from outboards that never had oil injection that would make them carbon up faster then an engine without oil injection?
> Perhaps not faster. It would just make them do it at the same rate as non injected motors which require frequent decarbing, much more frequent than the average owner usually completes. From the shop standpoint it's a billable, highly profitable procedure so it benefits them to encourage disconnecting perfectly good oilers.
> ...


 thanks for any help up front I have a 115 v4 Yamaha with the self oiled on it an mostly it works fine the other day the oil alarm went off an I slowed down I checked a few things an took back off an it ran fine a friend has a manual with that motor in it an it said to check the fuse connections and all electrical connections. I did that an took the oil tank off of the motor an cleaned it an the float . An it did it once today at first then ran fine all day long. any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


c. j. stone said:


> Anybody have any badexperiences with mid-late 90's OMC outboard engine oil injector systems? Seems to me, if it isn't working correctly/or at all, it's too late when you know it!!


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm going to chime in here again and remind that the ethanol is the problem with vro's
look for a gas station with a high turn over and ethanol is (NOT) stated on the pump. Stations using less than 5% do not need to show ethanol
(Speedway-Marathon) both excellent choices


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

My self and 3 other friends all had VRO's and we've never had an issue with the VRO's and we all used ethanol gas from where ever.
I think ethanol gas gets a lot of bad hype for everything that goes wrong on an outboard. 
Ethanol gas in and of itself is not bad in marine engines or any other engine. It's not the gas, the problem is in the older components (fuel line, gaskets ect)
If you're having issues with the VRO, just changing fuel isn't going to fix it.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

crappiedude said:


> My self and 3 other friends all had VRO's and we've never had an issue with the VRO's and we all used ethanol gas from where ever.
> I think ethanol gas gets a lot of bad hype for everything that goes wrong on an outboard.
> Ethanol gas in and of itself is not bad in marine engines or any other engine. It's not the gas, the problem is in the older components (fuel line, gaskets ect)
> *If you're having issues with the VRO, just changing fuel isn't going to fix it.*


Agree with the above statement.
Though I don't like/trust the VRO or any other automatic oiling system on other brands of outboards...and you can be sure if I ever own another older outboard mtr that has an oiling system and that mtr is out of warranty, I will surely bypass the oiling system, we can't blame problems with the oiling systems on ethanol fuel.
Seems a lot of issues with many of the different oiling systems are caused by lack of regular required maintenance on the system. Cleaning tightening electrical connections, Inspecting/Replacing aging soft hoses, cleaning/flushing oil tank, cleaning filter and insuring oil tank vent stays clean are some of the normal maintenance that people never do until an alarms goes off.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

fastwater said:


> Agree with the above statement.
> Though I don't like/trust the VRO or any other automatic oiling system on other brands of outboards...and you can be sure if I ever own another older outboard mtr that has an oiling system and that mtr is out of warranty, I will surely bypass the oiling system, we can't blame problems with the oiling systems on ethanol fuel.
> Seems a lot of issues with many of the different oiling systems are caused by lack of regular required maintenance on the system. Cleaning tightening electrical connections, Inspecting/Replacing aging soft hoses, cleaning/flushing oil tank, cleaning filter and insuring oil tank vent stays clean are some of the normal maintenance that people never do until an alarms goes off.


The early VRO's were made with the older black style o'rings and were susceptable to swelling from the alcohol. By 1996, the o'rings were updated and the problem seemed to go away for the most part. Mine has been great until last year and i had to rebuild the pump (21 years) I can live with that.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks for that info. hatteras1.


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## 1 Brutus (Jul 27, 2007)

I had a 1990 40 hp VRO . Pump system failed. Pistons & rings scored in both cylinders. Cost me cylinder bore job, new Wiseco .025" over pistons and rings. I did the work myself but it was still costly. Then by passed the VRO and premixed manually. No more issues and ran great. If I had another one, I'd by pass it immediately for piece of mind. This of course is my opinion. I don't like the risk of trip interruptions, unreliability, and rebuilding for no good reason. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Mine seized on day 2 of a week long out of state trip. Really screwed my vacation. Had to fish all week on a 4 hp kicker. It costs nothing to bypass it yourself, and as long as you don't forget to mix, you'll always have lube.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

hatteras1 said:


> I'm going to chime in here again and remind that the ethanol is the problem with vro's
> look for a gas station with a high turn over and ethanol is (NOT) stated on the pump. Stations using less than 5% do not need to show ethanol
> (Speedway-Marathon) both excellent choices


Thanks for everyone's replies I took a turkey baster and suck some of the oil off the bottom of the big oil tank yesterday and found no moisture. Checked all the gas lines an oil lines. ran it several times yesterday and it seemed to run fine all day trying to just run it more seems the more I run it the better it runs


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

I love the VRO when it works right. (Variable Rate Oil) No more excessive loading at idle and plenty of oil at wot.. It's the older systems that beat us up. My 1992 almost lost an engine because of the vro


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## mmtchell (Jul 9, 2014)

92 v4 90 hp ...took vro off replaced it with a regular pump ... $60 ,,,premix xd50 oil now ...have no problem running 12 miles out ...with confidence. ...motor purrs like a kitten. ..idles great now ....its erie dont trust vro ...lots of rebuilders wont warranty that engine if it still has a vro system on the boat now that is saying something. ...my 2 cents


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

mmtchell said:


> 92 v4 90 hp ...took vro off replaced it with a regular pump ... $60 ,,,premix xd50 oil now ...have no problem running 12 miles out ...with confidence. ...motor purrs like a kitten. ..idles great now ....its erie dont trust vro ...lots of rebuilders wont warranty that engine if it still has a vro system on the boat now that is saying something. ...my 2 cents


Ok so when you change out the pump do you just plug the oil line off an leave the oil tank full so the alarm won't go off.


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## mmtchell (Jul 9, 2014)

Go on YouTube they have a step by step instructions


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

mmtchell said:


> Go on YouTube they have a step by step instructions


Ok thanks for all the help


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