# Loose Dogs



## ltfd596 (Apr 15, 2005)

Honestly I am not even sure about writing this, but I would like some closure.

I got to my dads farm Sunday afternnon and helped him take out the garbage. There was quite a bit because of the thanksgiving holiday.... turkey scraps, leftover food, etc. 

When he got down to the cabin Monday morning for breakfast before we the stands he was very upset because two dogs who were running around the house got into the garbage and tore it up.

Yesterday, as I was sitting in the stand I saw the two dogs go past my stand. A black lab mix and a rotwiller (sp?). I didn't think anything about it.

At luch time I got out of the stand and was heading for the cabin, I came across these two dogs eating a gut pile from my father-in-law the day before. As I walked past them they started growling. I tried to move, but I was limitied as to how far I could go... pond on one side and them on the other. As I go past them, the rotwiller gave up on the pile and started to come towards me. I stopped, yelled, but he started running and growling. I was a little scared, so I did the only thing I could think... I pulled up with my shotgun and fired. 

I feel really bad, I am a huge dog lover, but I was scared. Was I right in this decision? What else could I have done? Keep in mind, these we not family pets, they were dropped off about a week earlier. No collars, tags, anything.

What would you all do in that situation?


----------



## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Shoot it too. I love dogs too but my safety comes first. 
I'd rather feel a little sad now rather than laying in a hospital bed wishing I disposed of that wild dog.


----------



## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Feral dogs are nothing to mess with. Having been dropped off, they would have only gotten worse. The other one will have to be dealt with as well. If you don't want to do it, call the dog warden and explain the situation. They should be able to take care of it. There's only one way to deal with feral dogs and you made the only decision you could.


----------



## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

You did the right thing !

What if a small child were to pass where you did ?

My granddaughter got bit eariler this year by a loose boxer dog.

I have a dog-raccoon proof garbage can.
...


----------



## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

You did the right thing. Left to continue running wild, those dogs would have become a threat to the whole area. Hope the other dog is captured or eliminated.


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

You took care of another person's problem. Shame on the people who turned them loose. Shame on the people who bought or got the dog and would not take care of it. Shame on them for not caring enough for penning up or chaining up the dogs.

You did the only thing you could - and it was the right decision. I am a dog lover, but had I been in your shoes I would have done the same thing. If you are going to be upset about anything, be pissed about the previous owners who were worthless.


----------



## lg_mouth (Jun 7, 2004)

Like it was said, you may have saved a small child's or even an adult's life. 

lg_mouth


----------



## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

Sounds totally justified to me. 

What I have a problem with is a hunter who'll shoot *any* cat or dog passing thru and then claim to be saving the world from feral's. Meanwhile, the landowner or his neighbor just lost a family pet.


----------



## wvsportsman (Feb 21, 2006)

You definitely did the right thing. Yor safety comes first! Wild dogs are nothing to mess with. I would have done the same. I think it's also irresponsible for anyone to let their pets to run loose especially during hunting season!!


----------



## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

i prolly would have fired a warnig shot to change his mind,as it would be hard to shoot a dog for me. but if the warning shot did not work i guess i would have opened up on him too.while on the subject ,there were 2 drop offs at nimisila yesterday. they were by the state park ,skinny and shy .this was @ 6 am. when we came back from duck hunting the dog warden was there. he just sits there feeding them dog biskets till he gains their trust to get close enough to snare them. took quite a while as he did have 1 caught and on a rope and was working on the other.


----------



## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

you were fully justified.

pr.


----------



## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

You would have been the FRESH gut pile for them to feed on.
Shame they can't find the morons that dropped them off, seems the country is where people dispose of unwanted pets, tires,furniture and non-working appliances.

Just curious..what did the other dog do when you shot its partner?


----------



## ltfd596 (Apr 15, 2005)

The other dog took off running with its tail litterally between it legs. My dad said that it was up in his barn the next morning. 

Thanks guys, I do feel as though my actions were justified, but it still does not make me feel any better. I know it had to be done, but I still feel like crap for shooting a dog.


----------



## Guest (Nov 30, 2006)

I shoot every feral dog that I can. Also feral cats. I have gotten 4 in the past month or so.


----------



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

should have shot them both.


----------



## bronzebackyac (Apr 19, 2005)

I keep a dedicated "dog" arrow in my quiver for just that purpose. The farm I hunt has a problem with the neighbors dogs running the property every morning. They make one big loop around the property every morning and sometimes chase deer. The tennant at the farm is pissed off. He wants to "dispose" of them after having them mess up his hunting almost every time he goes out. I would have a much harder time killing those dogs, but the owner really should respect the neighbors and keep them pinned up. What would you guys do about this situation? They have already called the neighbors and asked them nicely to keep them off the property.


----------



## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

If the dogs are in fact running deer, then shoot them. If all they are doing is running and roaming, then trap them and haul them down to the Dog pound so the ower has to pay to get them back. 
Now I wouldn't shoot them with an arrow as there is too much chance for error and a suffering dog. Use a gun.


----------



## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

A friend of mine lives out in the country and he says people drop dogs off out there all the time, damn shame when you think about it because they can at least take the dog to the pound, has to be a hell of a shock on the dog as well to be in a home one day and completely on your own in the country the next, but if the dog made real threatening moves toward you there wasnt much choice.


----------



## hillbillybelownewphilly (Nov 16, 2006)

It's hard to make decisions in a hurry like that. But I don't think there was much else you could have done. If it was me I might have tried the warning shot, but like I said in those types of situations it's hard to make a decision.


----------



## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

was it this one? http://www.greatlakeswaterfowler.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5256


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

I donb't believe that eveyr dog running a deer should be shot. Dogs have to be trained not to run deer and it takes AT LEAST one int he right situation to get through to the dog that its NO FUN to chase deer. 

So, if I was out training my dog and it jumped a deer before I could get the correction in and some ID10T decided to put my OBVIOUSLY marked bird dog down. There would be a hunting accident. Pure and simple. So, think a quick second before you decide to pull that trigger. Every dog you see may not be a nuisance. 

Now, on the flip side I would not be stupid enough to run my dog during gun deer season.


----------



## Blaze6784 (Nov 3, 2006)

Dang LittleKing, that was pretty graphic.


----------



## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

You did the right thing. My dad had a pack of dog jump on him many years abck on our land in Hocking County. He had a 38 on him and shot I think 2 of them, the others left after that. He got his arms tore up pretty good.

Unless a dog is very well marked or we know its a neighbors dog, they do not last on our property. I mentioned in another post some of our people got 4 out of a pack of 5 on opening day (or was it 3 out of 4?).


----------



## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

Blaze6784 said:


> Dang LittleKing, that was pretty graphic.


pretty sad too.

an obvious family pet shot by a ruthless hunter.

im a deer hunter and a dog handler, wild dogs are one thing... pets are another.


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

That's what I'm trying to say LittleKing. I can see if the dog has no collar, no tags, nothing - and acts in a threatening manner.  However, if it's marked as a hunting dog or as a possible pet......... I would hope you all would make the right choice.


----------



## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

and his father were running their foxhounds one day and they suddenly found themselves surrounded by a pack of wild dogs. They ended up standing back to back and shooting 4 of the dogs before the other 5 ran off. He said he was scared to death and this guy doesn't scare easy. Sometimes these things are necessary to survive.


----------



## Ðe§perado™ (Apr 15, 2004)

If they are running deer, shoot them plain and simple.


----------



## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

My thoughts. If dog has a collar only shoot if there is immediate danger.

Here are some ORC references:
§ 955.03. Dogs are personalty.
Any dog which has been registered under sections 955.01 and 955.04 of the Revised Code and any dog not required to be registered under such sections shall be considered as personal property and have all the rights and privileges and be subject to like restraints as other livestock. 

§ 955.28. Dog may be killed for certain acts; owner liable for damages.
(A) Subject to divisions (A)(2) and (3) of section 955.261 [955.26.1] of the Revised Code, a dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, that is the property of another person, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury. If, in attempting to kill such a dog, a person wounds it, he is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws which punish cruelty to animals. 
(B) The owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog, unless the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time, was committing or attempting to commit a trespass or other criminal offense on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer, or was committing or attempting to commit a criminal offense against any person, or was teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog on the owner's, keeper's, or harborer's property.


----------



## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

I'm with Crankus, littleking, and reel. My setter runs big in the grouse woods, 40 to 100 yards in front of me, which isn't all that far for a lot of pointing dogs. I'm confident she's broke from running deer. BUT, if she does make a mistake, please don't shoot my dog. [email protected]


----------



## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

itfd596 did the right thing. The dog was menacing him. I usually carry a couple shells in 00 buck for bad dogs, bad people, etc.


----------



## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

I can sympathise with the rotten feeling about shooting a dog. I had to kill one a long time ago that had my cousin pinned up against the barn. He was feeding the chickens and the noise attracted several feral dogs. A beautiful large german sheperd made several attempts to bite Jim my cousin. he was fending him off with a pitchfork.

I was upstairs and quickly threw open a window and shot the sheperd with a .222. The other dogs ran of immediately. I ran outside to check on Jim and was relieved that he was alright. I was 15 years old at the time and that makes it about 44 years ago. I still feel it was a great waste as this particular sheperd was an extremely good looking dog. Almost identical to Rin Tin Tin if some of you oldtimers remember that old tv series. I remember both of us sobbing as we buried the dog. I had no choice but the sour taste remained for quite a few years


----------



## wvsportsman (Feb 21, 2006)

If it comes down to myself, another person or the dog, especially a big muscular dog like a rotwiller or pitbull the dog is history.


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

I usually don't mess with dogs while I'm hunting, BUT if a dog shows any sign of aggression, he's history. About 7-8 years ago we killed about a dozen or so dogs that were running in 3 different packs. I believe most of these dogs were unwanted family pets that were turned loose, It was a little scary just walking to your stand in the dark. You did the right thing, the problem would only get worse.


----------



## davycrockett (Apr 9, 2005)

I think the irresponsible owners of these dogs should be shot. By all means protect yourself but use a liitle common sense and judgement before busting a cap in a dog.


----------



## chase845 (Nov 2, 2005)

yeah shoot my dog and i just might shoot you. I was bird hunting with my 2 year old lab at Dillon this year when she went to greet two "hunters" and I heard one of them say "light her UP" and he pointed his sawed off chrome shotgun at my dog. How many bird dogs attack hunters? That's the last time I think I'll be hunting public ground for awhile. Oh and my dog isn't quite broke of running deer yet, you gonna shoot her desperado? Deer hunting that tough for you?


----------



## DarbyMan (Dec 11, 2005)

I've been watching this post for some time now and I think I'll chime in. I wouldn't shoot a dog for running around unless I knew 100% it was feral but if it threatens me or a family member it's toast, pet or not.


----------



## chase845 (Nov 2, 2005)

One consideration for you guys who think it's ok to shoot a dog running a deer: Shooting someone's pet dog I'm pretty sure is a felony, whether or not it's violating a leash law or not. Deadly force can be used to stop the commission of a felony. Get my drift...?


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Yeah, shoot my dog and there is going to be a hunting accident. You guys who think it's cut and dry are dead wrong.


----------



## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

I hope people who let their dogs run loose in the country read this post and see the danger they put their dogs in. I am constantly amazed at the folks who live out here and do not understand there are lots of people who will shoot your dog with very little provocation. Not everyone knows your dog is so friendly.

I am not going to judge anyone else's actions or statements other than to say that I would have done the exact same thing as the original poster.


----------



## lg_mouth (Jun 7, 2004)

I have a buddy who does a lot of trapping and he had to let a Boston Terrier loose the other day that had 3 legs in three different traps. A local lets their dogs run free and it was bound to happen. He was pretty sick over it, but I told him that is the price they pay for letting their dogs run loose on other's property.

Also, if your dog is on my land and I feel the least bit threatened, guess who is leaving and who is staying! 

lg_mouth


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

It's a good thing you guys don't live close to dog trainig areas or facilities where they hold hunt tests and field trials or game preserves, or state hunting areas. Man, the carnage.


----------



## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

steelmagoo said:


> itfd596 did the right thing. The dog was menacing him. I usually carry a couple shells in 00 buck for bad dogs, bad people, etc.



i hope not while deer hunting... its illegal to have any shot shells with you while deer hunting.


----------



## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

crankus_maximus said:


> It's a good thing you guys don't live close to dog trainig areas or facilities where they hold hunt tests and field trials or game preserves, or state hunting areas. Man, the carnage.


Very few times do I hear these types of stories about hunting dogs. It is usually a Rott, mutt or shepherd.


----------



## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

littleking said:


> i hope not while deer hunting... its illegal to have any shot shells with you while deer hunting.


of course it is.


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

I hear YOU Onion. I also hear some other non-rational folks stating that any dog chasing a deer should be shot. That is just ludicrous.


----------



## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Firstof all, anyone threatening to shoot another person for shooting a dog is about as non-rational as they come. Second is the fact that anyone that truly values their hunting dog, bird dog, rabbit dog, **** dog or otherwise should train or have the dog trained not to run deer.
For what it is worth, I worked for a breeder and trainer of German Shorthairs for a few years as a teenager. This gentlemean was also a field trial judge. All the dogs we trained and sold were broken from running any animal prior to being sold. I was shocked the first time he had a dog destroyed because it was unable to be broken but he stood strong in his convictions regarding the performance of a PROPERLY TRAINED and HANDLED bird dog. 
If an individual doesn't know how to train a dog to ignore deer, then he should consult with a trainer that will do it for him.
I never owned or desired to own a bird dog even though I could have had one free, but I did have two terrific beagles that only ran a deer once. Only took a couple lessons to remove any deer running desires they had.
Last of all, I would never shoot a hunting dog that wore a bright orange collar, or/and a bell, or an electronic training collar, and ran past me chasing a deer. I would locate the owner and advise him that he has put the dog in an unfavorable position due to his lack of training and should recognize his obligation to the animal. Now having it continually happen over and over...that is another consideration.
So, there you have it from a rational sportsman that has strong convictions of what responsibilities an owner of a hunting dog has even if they continually find reasons to excuse their dog's lack of complete training.


----------



## chase845 (Nov 2, 2005)

First of all, irrational is shooting a dog for running a deer. Second, I have a pretty close bond with my dog. She is genuinely my best friend. If I see someone trying to shoot her, yes I'm going to shoot them. I'm failing to see the irrationality of that. 
Next, my dog has had professional training. She's a therapy dog. However, if she makes a mistake (runs a deer) because I haven't trained her well enough, she still does not deserve to be killed. And because she doesn't deserve to be killed for running a deer or walking up to someone on our trail, I'm going to protect her by shooting the irrational person trying to shoot her.


----------



## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

Well said Shortdrift.


----------



## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

Strong feelings on the deer dog issue..didn't this all start with some guy shooting a wild dog that was advancing on him?

If it wasn't deer season and a dog was chasing a deer would you even care?


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

First of all - my dog is professionally trained by a trainer who has won national championships and who competes at a national level EVERY year. His dogs are among the finest stock in the breed and is well-known for his dogs, breeding practices, etc, etc. To even insinuate that my dog is not trained or handled properly is a total slap in the face. To insinuate that my dog is being handled poorly is also a slap in the face. I have mentored under many fine trainers and handlers and have handled many dogs on my own in many different situations.

That being said, even he will have a dog jump a deer every now and then. DOGS ARE NOT ROBOTS and will never be. Anyone who thinks an animal will react the same way each and every time is only fooling themselves into a false sense of security.

Shortdrift, even you had a dog that ran a deer once. What happened if a hunter saw that and decided the put yopur dog down. Would you think that was a fair assessment of the situation? I mean, you need that one deer to at least conduct your training. Anyone who thinks an animal will react the same way each and every time is only fooling themselves into a false sense of security. You have said many times before that any dog caught chasing a deer should be shot. That is an irrational statement, that you have contradicted.

A good bird dog will range out and find birds that I cannot find as hunter, saving me time and energy. My dog is trained to run faster, further and harder to find the birds that other boot-licking dogs did not. Dogs cannot read. Dogs do not know which hunters are irrational and which ones are not. For that matter I don't either. 

I stand by my statement, and it is in NO WAY irrational. If anyone shoots my clearly marked hunting dog, you had better be prepared for a similar consequence. I'll be around to explain my side to the judge. Will the other guy?

My whole point is that each situation is VERY different from another. To paint each situation with one braod stroke is a mistake and gross over-exageration.


----------



## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

hypothetical this and thats.... It's going to be a long winter.


----------



## chase845 (Nov 2, 2005)

I'll be your attorney crankus


----------



## swantucky (Dec 21, 2004)

Man guys I saw both sides of this until people started saying they would shoot a HUMAN BEING over a DOG being shot or shot at. I have read some PETA literature you guys might be interested in...."a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy" if I remember correctly. Man I have had some great dogs but to kill someone over it, don't see that hapening, not worth spending years in jail, pissed off sure, kick some butt, heck yha, but killing someone, never.


----------



## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

chase845 said:


> First of all, irrational is shooting a dog for running a deer. Second, I have a pretty close bond with my dog. She is genuinely my best friend. If I see someone trying to shoot her, yes I'm going to shoot them. I'm failing to see the irrationality of that.


Dog's life > Human life = irrational.

I would kick their ass, kill their dog, skin it and hang it from the front porch but a DOG is NOT worth killing a HUMAN over.


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

That's all your opinion and you are entitled to it. The whole point is that it is just as irrational and STUPID to shoot a hunting dog. Some people said they would shoot any dog chasing a deer. Where is the sense in that???????????????????????

Oh and onion: dog = human life, not greater than. 

I'm done here, but know where I stand.


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> And you BOTH would loose.


 LOL bryan.i won't get into the fray,but to say you are correct  

btw,nice job on the edit.thanks


----------



## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

It took em a LONG time to type that too. (the 2nd one), but figured it wasnt worth it. Shortdrift summed it up nicely.


----------



## chase845 (Nov 2, 2005)

This may be getting carried away, but the majority rule is that deadly force can be used to stop the commission of a felony. I guess I don't know if Ohio follows that rule H20, but my guess is I know more about the odds of winning that type of case than you do.


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

well,i WAS going to stay out of it   
i will say i'm no lawyer,but if i was,i still wouldn't give good odds for winning a case of murder prompted by the shooting of a dog.in fact,i'd be willing to bet against it


----------



## krustydawg (Apr 26, 2004)

Lewzer said:


> hypothetical this and thats.... It's going to be a long winter.


I just read this entire thread, dear god help us all ! Some of you need to seek counseling immediately !


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> I just read this entire thread, dear god help us all ! Some of you need to seek counseling immediately !


 LOL.for sure.

maybe at this time,i can offer my mediation services.my specialty is "creative conflict resolution",and i'm available upon request


----------



## krustydawg (Apr 26, 2004)

misfit said:


> LOL.for sure.
> 
> maybe at this time,i can offer my mediation services.my specialty is "creative conflict resolution",and i'm available upon request


What is your hourly rate and do you have a very comfortable couch ? Some gentleman might be there for quite a while, so the comfy couch would be a must !


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

i have no standard rates.i prefer to barter my time for fishing tackle.and i do have a very comfortable couch.it's a must when the wife locks me out of the bedroom


----------



## chase845 (Nov 2, 2005)

Before I sound too crazy, I do value human lives more than that of a dogs life. If I had to chose between a dog and a human life, ceteris paribus, I wouldn't have to think before chosing for human life. That being said, I don't value the life of someone intentionally trying to shoot and kill my dog. Would I shoot them after they killed my dog? No. I simply said I would probably shoot at someone trying to kill my dog, for the sole purpose of stopping the situation. Shooting someone after they shoot your dog probably would leave you in jail, you're right misfit, although it probably wouldn't be considered murder. So now that I look like a nut for saying I would protect my dog, and the rest of you feel very moral for wacking mans best friend upon his mistake of running a deer, I'm done with this post. Keep flinging slugs and arrows at those awful pets, they deserve to die and their owners deserve to suffer for your enjoyment of killing.


----------



## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

So what's everyones opions on some less heated things such as Ferrell Cats, Pay Lakes & Commericial Netting On Lake Erie? 

Sometimes we all need to take a breather and focus on why we all are here: for the love of the outdoors.


----------



## lv2fish (Jun 23, 2005)

I have had a situation like this on more than one occasion, stray dogs become wild. You did what you needed to do. Don't lose any sleep over it. Anyone that cares for their animals will keep them contained and well marked.


----------



## swantucky (Dec 21, 2004)

The next logical question would be what if a deer is chasing a dog that is a well marked hunting dog but the deer doing the chasing is not big enough to meet QDM standards???? Do you shoot the deer anyway????


----------



## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

Shoot the deer then feed it to the dog!


----------



## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

Real Bad!!!  
The shanty is ready, the reels have fresh line and the vib"e" hooks have been sharpened.
Please don't shoot my dog if he wanders over to your shanty to see your fish.


----------



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

WOW!!!talk about intense. to kill a human over a canine...man thats extreme. to even state you would even do something like that.WOW..you just threw out your temporary insanity plea...oh and relax. this thread got way off the orginal post. 

for the record i would shoot the dog if i was in the position of ltfd596 (the poster of this thread) and felt i was about to be attacked.


----------



## newbuckeye (Feb 6, 2006)

littleking said:


> was it this one? http://www.greatlakeswaterfowler.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5256


Littlking....I believe the dog Dr. J was working on is in Louisana.....


----------



## crawdiddy (Apr 10, 2006)

I love the loose dogs that run around at antrim lake when I'm fishing and their owners throw sticks 20 feet from my bobber.....


----------

