# X series controversy



## JF1

Just curious if anyone has any info on the rumors I'm hearing about the x series points champions. Rumor has it they were dq'd due to cheating. Just looking to see if this was fact, or rumor?

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## johnboy111711

where were they dq'd at?


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## JF1

I heard they are nO longer points champs. I have heard some specifics, however don't want to discuss until I confirm fact. I heard from a very reliable source they failed polygraph

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## johnboy111711

hmmmmm, curious


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## firstflight111

that's why i got out of the tourment bass fishing ..way to many guy's cheating ....


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## johnboy111711

well no one has been confirmed cheating, there are just rumors.


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## JF1

I disagree...i think 99 percent of all tournament anglers are honest. It's the 1 percent that creates that perception. If someone is caught cheating, they will be black balled from any event, and rightfully so. This is why I'm trying to confirm or deny these rumors...

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## mpd5094

JF1 said:


> I disagree...i think 99 percent of all tournament anglers are honest. It's the 1 percent that creates that perception. If someone is caught cheating, they will be black balled from any event, and rightfully so. This is why I'm trying to confirm or deny these rumors...
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I agree with you 100%!


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## cedar1

firstflight111 said:


> that's why i got out of the tourment bass fishing ..way to many guy's cheating ....


That is a B.S. statement.


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## firstflight111

cedar1 said:


> that is a b.s. Statement.


ahhhh no its not .there are way to many guy's cheating ....even in the free tourments there's cheating ....i have been in them 32 years from cananda to mississori ..and besides that have you fished the same tourments that i did to know what i am talking i think not so how can you say that B.S.


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## cedar1

firstflight111 said:


> ahhhh no its not .there are way to many guy's cheating ....even in the free tourments there's cheating ....i have been in them 32 years from cananda to mississori ..and besides that have you fished the same tourments that i did to know what i am talking i think not so how can you say that B.S.


I dont want this to go in the direction, but what have you seen these guys do?


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## mikeshookset

the web page still has them listed as pointschamps ???


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## JF1

I know....... Thats why I said it was rumor only. But, I heard from an extremely reliable source. Im not on here bashing them, just inquiring if anyone else has heard this and/or can confirm or deny... I was hoping someone close to the circuit could shed light. Not looking for specifics, just whether or not they were dq'd.

Please, I want to be clear, I'm not saying they cheated, just that thats the word on street. 

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## Bad Bub

firstflight111 said:


> ahhhh no its not .there are way to many guy's cheating ....even in the free tourments there's cheating ....i have been in them 32 years from cananda to mississori ..and besides that have you fished the same tourments that i did to know what i am talking i think not so how can you say that B.S.


It hasn't been a problem in any of the tournaments i've fished.... maybe it was just the group of guys you fished with....

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## Nipididdee

I would suspect a formal statement from X-series official's will be forth coming.

Applause to the Xseries and Vic's for continuing to further our sport by removing our enemies from the game.

If there is any message from NE Ohio anglers and organizations- if you goof around, you will get caught.

These boys might better consider a change of address...

It's always that 1% that keeps us on our toes, regardless in fishing or just living.

nip


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## JF1

Nip...


Couldn't agree more! I just heard from another source, so I'm no longer saying rumor. Supposedly fish tied to docks and trees.... Unbelievable! I agree...remove the enemy and make it uncomfortable for them to show their [email protected] in public, let alone a boat ramp.

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## Nipididdee

It's important to remove all our enemies...

which includes public presentation of speculative rumors and heresay by "sources". 

Let Xseries have their say and best to leave it there, for the benefit of the group.

It's a world of bad things all around us guys. Fishing is not one of them.

Checkout the weighin between KSU and Akron tomorrow that Vic's is supporting with a $400 school prize...that is what it fishing is about.

There is no enemy, but ourselves...

nip



> I would suspect a formal statement from X-series official's will be forth coming.
> 
> Applause to the Xseries and Vic's for continuing to further our sport by removing our enemies from the game.
> 
> If there is any message from NE Ohio anglers and organizations- if you goof around, you will get caught.
> 
> These boys might better consider a change of address...
> 
> It's always that 1% that keeps us on our toes, regardless in fishing or just living.


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## Gomez

I agree with nip....just let Tommy and George lay it all out for us. It's hard not to be angry just knowing what I know about it. I love this sport so much that when I hear things like this it just makes me sick. 

Go KSU!! If I can make it from portage in time I will try to catch the weighin at springfield>

Gomez out!!


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## Cull'in

Wow, what a shame!


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## Rivergetter

+1 


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## lakes craig

Hopefully some lessons learned here for anyone else trying to ruin the sport we all love. YOU WILL BE CAUGHT ! Sad day.


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## firstflight111

Bad Bub said:


> It hasn't been a problem in any of the tournaments i've fished.... maybe it was just the group of guys you fished with....
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I have fished just about every thing from small clubs to everstarts ...it's everywhere ..it is sad to say but that's why we got out of them ..you can't beat a cheater and i wont help he make money ...and the sad thing is most of it happens in small clubs there was 5 guy over 18 years busted red handed ..one guy even had taged fish from another lake so i know what i am talking about ..dont get me wrong not everones a cheater i know that but theres to much of it going on ...thats why gambler stoped having there free one in ohio the last one at berlin there were 4 fish boxes found ....really ...


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## Procraftboats21

what gets more angry then anything is they jeopardized the integrity of our sport here locally in NE Ohio. Some of the best fisherman not just in our local area but the U.S fish these tournaments. So if a father son team wanted to get started into tournament fishing next season and they see this..what our their thoughts?

This situation is the lowest of the low..


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## firstflight111

Procraftboats21 said:


> what gets more angry then anything is they jeopardized the integrity of our sport here locally in NE Ohio. Some of the best fisherman not just in our local area but the U.S fish these tournaments. So if a father son team wanted to get started into tournament fishing next season and they see this..what our their thoughts?
> 
> This situation is the lowest of the low..


so what you'r saying we should lie to them and say what a great sport it is ....dont get me wrong it is a great sport and there are great guy and gals in it .. but a few bad apples makes for sour cider just saying ..

and i left because of all the bull crap ..if you win someone will say you cheated... always happens a good friend of mine that fishes b.a.s.s left because of this reason ...


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## lotaluck

The SAD part about this is the guys that have to dig really deep to afford to compete in these tournys. The gas for pre fishing and tourny days along with the entry only to hand over to the shady. Its everywhere guys not just fishing, Business, professional sports, racing, its a shame but reality. I just feel for the guys who probably cant afford to compete but somehow scrounge enough up to enter only to be stolen from. At the end of the day all we really have is our names and these guys may have lost that! 
Just checked the x series web-site and it says important anouncement monday about 2012 points champs.


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## Bassbme

I, like the majority of the people posting here will continue to fish in tournaments because we love it so much. We will continue to do so, because of the camaraderie we share at the events. Because of the friendships we've made over the years. Because we love the competition. We do it for bragging rights, for the recognition of our fellow anglers, and yes........ for the possibility of winning money. 

For me, my fishing partner, and the fisherman that I fish with that I would consider friends, the money is secondary compared to some of the things I listed. Don't get me wrong.... winning money is nice, but that's not why we do it. If fishing bass tournaments was all about money, or turning a profit, the majority of us would have stopped doing it long ago. Yet we come back year after year. 

It's sad that something like that happened in what I would consider a very respected bass circuit. It's sad that someone would cheat....... basically stealing money from their friends as well as every other competitor. That they could accept the accolades and congratulations from their fellow anglers, all while knowing that they cheated. The only thing they won was disdain and ridicule. I'd rather lose all of my money, than lose my integrity.

How sad for all of us


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## Harbor Hunter

I am also very saddened upon hearing this news.It goes without saying that both of them should never be allowed to compete in our great sport ever again,but they should also be prosecuted for their actions to the fullest extent of the law.In tournaments with a large number of boats participating,it's so hard to monitor what's going on every second,I mean how hard is it to pull up to a stump and untie a stringer? You just have to hope that every person is a true sportsman that's fishing the tournament,unfortunately a small number are not.I've fished many major TX's on down to small club events,and pot tournaments,I've only been suspicious of someone in one event,and that one happened earlier this year.I fished an open event that had 28 boats,all were pretty much regular guys from the circuit that was running the event,except for one particular team.I don't think anybody in the field knew either of them,which in an open is not unusual.Anyway,the weather conditions were terrible,with chocolate milk colored water,off and on rain showers and high winds,and the temp was in the low 40's.At the weigh-in the 2nd place team had around 6lbs.,3rd was a few ounces less.Both of these teams are very,very good bass anglers.The newcomers weighed in a tad over 18lbs.! I realize that it could be legit,but I remember at the meeting before blast off that morning they both had stated that neither of them had ever fished this lake before.Again there's no proof that any wrong doing had happened,but it just seemed strange to me at the time that 27 teams who regularly fish this 1000 acre lake couldn't rack up more than 6lbs.,and two guys that had never fished there before could conquer very muddy,frigid water and sack 18lbs.I also should add that I pulled into the marina that morning at 5:00am and these two were sleeping in their truck,they said they had spent the night there.Probably nothing,but just makes you wonder when you hear stories like the one posted here.


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## PapawSmith

Harbor Hunter said:


> I am also very saddened upon hearing this news.It goes without saying that both of them should never be allowed to compete in our great sport ever again,but they should also be prosecuted for their actions to the fullest extent of the law.


Before we tar & feather, burn, then hang these two why don't we wait to hear what the offense was? So far all we have is what a couple guys "heard" and that is nothing more than rumor at this time, no matter the source. This may be something as serious as straight out cheating or something as careless/inadvertent as exercising poor judgement and lack of knowledge of situational rules in a tournament. I know these guys are experienced tourney anglers but everyone makes stupid mistakes or decisions every now and again. They may be guilty as hell, but lets wait and see what the tournament director says is what I say before we prosecute them here.


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## Harbor Hunter

I don't claim to know anything about the circuit,who fishes in it,or the two in question.I'll rephrase my statement-if the two anglers in question are found guilty of staking fish(which is not a stupid mistake),then they should receive what I mentioned earlier.I seriously hope that what is being said here is nothing more than conjecture,we shall see come Monday.


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## mpd5094

They changed the points champs on their web site. I just checked it.


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## PapawSmith

mpd5094 said:


> They changed the points champs on their web site. I just checked it.


HH, I wasn't directly blasting you, there has been a good bit of speculation here. You just happened to provide a perfect comment to quote about that point. Bennett and Barbetta are outstanding fishermen and are always in the running at every tourney they are in, it seems. Congratulations to them regardless of the result and cause of the DQ to the others.
What is up with Tommy sporting a Mohawk in the picture?


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## Harbor Hunter

Sorry,I'm not in the know here.I was only expressing my opinion on anybody that cheats in a TX.I'm not very familiar with this circuit,so I don't recognize the names you listed.The two guys you mentioned are the actual champions then,or were they the two that were accused of cheating?


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## PapawSmith

Bennett and Barbetta are now the X Series Champions. Good guys and good fishermen from my experience and as expressed by others I know that have fished with/against them.
I feel exactly the same as you about cheaters. I just want to verify that those other guys did indeed cheat prior to labeling them as so. All I know for a fact is that they were DQ'd. That can happen if you cheat, same as if you get off your boat to take a crap in the woods and someone files a protest.


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## Norka

so whats the story? still haven't heard what happened.


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## JF1

They did cheat.... Not a bs protest. Failed polygraph.... Tied up fish is the story I'm getting. one of which was their 4+lber at berlin.

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## dwmikemx

If they (the dirtbag cheaters) were the points leaders, then obviously they have been cheating all year in this series. I hope they ban them from tournaments forever and prosecute them . I also hope their names and hometown get posted all over the web. They need to be run right out of the sport. 

It also brings into question the legitimacy of any and all of their past TX finishes in other events/series. 

I hate cheaters, they are no different than common thieves. SKUMBAGS. hope they rot in He.... !!


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## Rivergetter

Any words markfish ??


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## JignPig Guide

The cheaters are missing/skipping two important life lessons... SELF RESPECT & PERSONAL SPIRITUALITY. Without it, there is no respect for others, nor their beliefs and opinions. Because it's all about them.

I would rather be known as an average angler (tournament angler or not) that loves the the sport. There is honor in that.


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## Gsxrfanim

Rivergetter said:


> Any words markfish ??
> 
> 
> Are you calling him out Rivergetter?


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## firstflight111

JignPig Guide said:


> The cheaters are missing/skipping two important life lessons... SELF RESPECT & PERSONAL SPIRITUALITY. Without it, there is no respect for others, nor their beliefs and opinions. Because it's all about them.
> 
> I would rather be known as an average angler (tournament angler or not) that loves the the sport. There is honor in that.


plus 1 you have to take the wins with the fails and learn from them ...to make you better person .....


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## Rivergetter

Gsxrfanim said:


> Rivergetter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any words markfish ??
> 
> 
> Are you calling him out Rivergetter?
> 
> 
> 
> Just trying to understand
> 
> 
> _OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._
Click to expand...


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## lotaluck

Wow just realized its one of our guys that this is refering to!! What a great way to clarify this whole misunderstanding if indeed it is a misunderstanding.


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## MassillonBuckeye

JignPig Guide said:


> The cheaters are missing/skipping two important life lessons... SELF RESPECT & PERSONAL SPIRITUALITY. Without it, there is no respect for others, nor their beliefs and opinions. Because it's all about them.
> 
> I would rather be known as an average angler (tournament angler or not) that loves the the sport. There is honor in that.


I don't know what spirituality has to do with anything. I'm not spiritual and not a cheater. I have respect for others. Whos is to say these weren't "men of God"? Will they be forgiven if they are? Sorry, but you just opened up a can. lol


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## Rivergetter

That's what I'm getting at. A quick search on the venom only tournament on ogf will lead you to all the same names that are involved here. 


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## PapawSmith

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I don't know what spirituality has to do with anything. I'm not spiritual and not a cheater. I have respect for others. Whos is to say these weren't "men of God"? Will they be forgiven if they are? Sorry, but you just opened up a can. lol


 He just put the "can" out there. I believe you are the one that snatched it up and ripped it open.


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## Gsxrfanim

So now you have to look back at the previous tournaments and question the credibility of their finishes.
Two 2nd place finishes and a 1st with decent kickers in each tourney.


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## JignPig Guide

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I don't know what spirituality has to do with anything. I'm not spiritual and not a cheater. I have respect for others. Whos is to say these weren't "men of God"? Will they be forgiven if they are? Sorry, but you just opened up a can. lol


I don't know about opening up a can of worms. That was not the intention of my posts. Sorry man.

To comment or answer your posts I'll say - 

1 - If you don't cheat and enjoy fishing/the outdoors, you may be more spiritual than you realize. (This is not an insult.)
2 - You have respect for others because you must have a certain amount of respect for yourself.
3 - Men of God do wrong on a regular basis.
4 - If they ask for forgiveness they'll get it.


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## fishingdude

Chris Corns and Mark Carl, hey there boys! I won't sugar coat this, it is going to hurt, really bad. You have a head start, you need to use it.


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## Dan21XRS

X-Series best nip this in the bud. Any official statement yet?... Dan


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## lotaluck

While this issue un-folds, OGF and this thread is like i mentioned before a great resource for us all to see how it plays out. There is going to be alot more anger and rightfully so but if we keep it on track I would hope the mods to to allow it to remain open.
Without this thread alot of us would have never heard about it and if it gets closed will never know where it goes. Its a small comunity and if we play our cards right we can watch (read) This unfold right here on OGF!!


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## ShakeDown

Well allow it to remain open, however I would caution anyone who's making assumptions based on rumors alone, without an official statement from X-Series.


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## Triton20X

And the list of banned NE Ohio tournament anglers grows by two...

Leggetts (Westville Lakes)
Ritter (West Branch)
Skelton/Lahmers (Portage Lakes)
Corns/Carl (X-Series)

You will get caught, you will not fish tournaments again and you will spend the rest of your time regretting what you've done!

You can not and will not tear down what the honest 99% of us have worked so hard to build.


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## Harbor Hunter

Amen brother,thank you.


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## KaGee

What's the payout on this series anyway?


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## Skarfer

I believe payout for winning at the end of the year is a brand new Ranger bassboat.........


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## Bassbme

Normal payout for first place is in the neighborhood of $4,000 dollars. Going up or down depending on the number of boats fishing. Don't quote me, but I believe points champs get a cash reward for being points champs as well. The Ranger boat mentioned is for winning the end of the year championship tournament. This years first place for the championship tournament is a Z118 Ranger with a 150 Opti Max on it. For those not familiar with the X Series circuit, they run a great tournament circuit.


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## perfcetion

If X Series and OGF want the rumors to stop etc than someone needs to release an official statement on it and how they are going to proceed..


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## KaGee

perfcetion said:


> If X Series and OGF want the rumors to stop etc than someone needs to release an official statement on it and how they are going to proceed..


What? What does OGF have to do with this other than we don't want false accusations, rumors or innuendo. We have nothing "official" to contribute to my knowledge other than we want all posts to adhere to the TOS.


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## lunker4141

Couldn't agree more. Some solid info would be great. The whole thing stinks. I don't understand how someone can cheat and feel good about themselves after the fact. I'm glad they got caught. Just makes you wonder how much they got away with it before this year or who else does it and hasn't gotten caught. Just hope this shows whoever else is doing it that you will eventually get caught. 
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## fishinnut123

@triton20x I would tread lightly when throwing out names of people that YOU say cheated. I know for a FACT that the accusation at the West Branch tournament never validated! I know for a FACT that the person accused took and passed a polygraph test and still occasionally fishes local tournaments. Im sure I have fished tournaments a lot longer, along with many more than 95% of people on this forum. Ive heard all the rumors surrounding the situation and none of them can be validated. Im not saying the guy handled the situation exactly how I would have, but Im a 61 yr old man and he was just a kid, it does not mean he cheated! If there was anyone to blame, it was the tournament director at the time. All This is coming from a person who does not hide behind a scream name and throw out accusations. If I didnt know any better Id think someone was a little jealous! Sincerely! Allan Gibbons


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## firstflight111

well i know for fact that the leggetts were cheating .i was there on berlin when it happend ...and he was busted with westville tags in the fishes mouth..and we had got the call the night before and was told what to look for in the fishes mouth....as for the rest of them can't say ...


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## fishinnut123

@firstflight111 Like I said in last post, I've fished one or two tournamrnts in this area, including the one you speak of. I remember Swisher putting in the leg work very well. I agree with you, the Leggetts cheated. But the difference between them and others is they got caught red handed not just a witch hunt or accusations!


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## Nipididdee

> If there was anyone to blame, it was the tournament director at the time


As this goes further south... 

Above kind of jumped out at me as exactly why everyone's patience should be exercised.

Prudent decisions require professional handling, which is exactly what we all are getting from x officials.

Nip ( aka Rory Franks  - been worried about you Al, nice to hear your lurking and well! )


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## Bad Bub

The X series directors aren't going to strip someone of their points title because of hearsay or jealousy fits....

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## fishinnut123

By no way am I saying that the tournament directors of the x-series or any current circuit directors are to blame. In fact, from what I heard so far is that they are handling the situation very professional. I was referring to the West Branch situation specifically. Those who have been around for awhile know that old Shirhal didn't always handle situations the best way. Out of 40+ yrs of competitive tournaments, that was only one of two situations that made me feel that way!
@Nip I'm still around! Might even make it out to one of your tourney's.


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## lakewarrior

The situation at West branch was not handled correctly, because his truck and boat was not searched prior to the event. However in that situation the person in question was turned in by associates that knew the fish came from somewhere else. They did the right thing and called the tournament directors. All of the fish in question came from another lake and were claimed to be caught at West branch. 

In the case of the X Series the team in question failed a Polygraph, not just one of them, but both. After confronted they admitted to "bad decisions" and were DQ from all of the X Series tournaments and that is why there was a change in points champions and repositioning for past events.

Im sure that this will all come out this weekend at New York.

Good job to the X Series directors for handling this professionally.


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## ShakeDown

Thanks for the clarification lakewarrior. In an instance like that, are they liable for any reimbursement for past winnings, and are they faced with any legal ramifications?


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## Triton20X

fishinnut123 said:


> @triton20x I would tread lightly when throwing out names of people that YOU say cheated. I know for a FACT that the accusation at the West Branch tournament never validated! I know for a FACT that the person accused took and passed a polygraph test and still occasionally fishes local tournaments. Im sure I have fished tournaments a lot longer, along with many more than 95% of people on this forum. Ive heard all the rumors surrounding the situation and none of them can be validated. Im not saying the guy handled the situation exactly how I would have, but Im a 61 yr old man and he was just a kid, it does not mean he cheated! If there was anyone to blame, it was the tournament director at the time. All This is coming from a person who does not hide behind a scream name and throw out accusations. If I didnt know any better Id think someone was a little jealous! Sincerely! Allan Gibbons


The persons on my previous list are _banned_ from fishing major organized events in NE Ohio for past transgressions, whatever they may have been.
That's a fact and can not be argued. Ask around.

As for the West Branch polygraph,the accused should have taken the one the tournament director set up, not one the accused organizes for himself. Who does that and then run's around yelling, "I'm innocent!"?

Jealous, not really. I wouldn't know the guy from a ham sandwich if I saw him. *I just want a fair playing field*.


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## hopintocash2

it's quite a shame that integrity has gone by the wayside. i used to be an avid golfer and played in leagues but got out due to lack of INTEGRITY, amazing how many golfers feel a foot wedge, no penalty for O.B., free drop from pond, etc. are legit. sad to see this has made it's way to fishing.


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## dwmikemx

Guess it's safe to say that Markfish won't be blowing smoke on here anymore.
I always thought that guy was a jack wagon.


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## Lewzer

I don't follow tournaments but I have been following this thread. I finally got it dwmikemx. It's a shame...


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## Skarfer

dwmikemx said:


> Guess it's safe to say that Markfish won't be blowing smoke on here anymore.
> I always thought that guy was a jack wagon.


































By all means, don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel.....


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## lotaluck

So all we know at this point is 2 failed polygraphs and bad decisions. Heck they could of just been caught fishing in the off limits area. Why is it such a secret and why isent there a formal statement. Alot of guys have LOST money and they deserver to know what happend. Heck they havent lost money they were stolen from. The news stations dont dance around and worry about offending people when there is a crime why in hell does the fishing comunity. Somebody knows something and the local fishing tourny guys should demand a statement and not just at the championship next week. It needs to be public!!


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## lotaluck

Rivergetter said:


> Any words markfish ??
> .[/i]


It would be nice as he could give his side to the situation. I checked his profile page and his last vist to OGF was today. So he's a reading!!


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## DL07

I'm not a tournement angler. But I have been following along with this and am suprised how well most have handled this. I tip my hat to you guys that have remained calm on here!! I don't think I would have been able to be as calm or as quiet. I really hate to see things like this happening and I hope that if these acusations are true that these poor fisherman are called out and are prosecuted to the fullest. I can't stand a thief!! I really feel for the teams that finished 1 spot from cashing, and now the find out they should have received a check.


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## Cull'in

As I stated early in the thread, this whole thing is just a shame all the way around. I don't want to sound like a patsy but this stuff really breaks this grown man's heart. It's a sport that myself and a whole host of others put a lot of time, money and sweat into. 
When something like this happens it really hits home, not just for me but for tournaments as a whole.

Going forward I would like to see X-Series/Vic's issue some kind of public response regarding the allegations and actions taken. Put it all out there for everyone to see. It's just made worse when we have an incident like this then have heresay, rumors and false imformation. That's when it get's really ugly.

John Shriver (aka Cull'in)


(Allan Gibbons (fishnnut123), How are you sir, haven't heard from you for a while!)


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## lakewarrior

Thank you ShakeDown,

To clarify further, they cheated. The "bad decision" was to act upon cheating. I dont think that is the issue anymore. The issue is what to do next.

I feel the best outcome is that they return all the winnings and be banned from fishing further as a sport. 

If they dont repay the money they should face charges and if not, then there could be legal issue for them in court for the money they owe.

I am impressed with the level of support for this sport and the anglers that want to do the right thing. I feel that is why we get so outraged at the mention of cheaters.


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## Nipididdee

> If there was anyone to blame, it was the tournament director at the time
> 
> 
> 
> As this goes further south...
> 
> Above kind of jumped out at me as exactly why everyone's patience should be exercised.
> 
> Prudent decisions require professional handling, which is exactly what we all are getting from x officials.
Click to expand...

This was the point I was trying to make earlier... not in as much that finger's are pointed to the handling.

Simply, as a guy who's been right there dealing with this kinda thing, you guy's can't sit back and demand immediate responses.

If X officials' weren't making good decsions along the way, you'd end up with a mess like described by past experiences earlier.

The quick response side cries "they are witch hunting"- the timed response "why so secretive"... and so on with endless scenerios.

X will dictate their response, and when, and how...for the benefit of the group and the organization no doubt.

Don't let anger and frustration assign blame to anyone or anything, rather, only to the dingdongs who earn it...

I agree- Markfish, feel free to chime in.... maybe save yourself and start with how you'll be returning winnings


----------



## Bassbme

I agree with Nip........ Vic, Tom, and George will do, and are doing the right thing by not making a hurried statement. You get your ducks in a row and your bases covered. You do your due diligence when your reputation is on the line. If they had made a hurried statement that proved to be inaccurate, just to quell the masses, it would have hurt their reputation. I may not have as big of a stake in this discussion as others because I didn't fish any X Series tournaments this year. But I have in the past. There is no doubt in my mind that they will make a statement, and not just at the up coming championship tournament. They'll let us all know what happened. Just give them some time.


----------



## Cull'in

Just to clarify my post, I wasn't asking for an immediate response, they definitely need to get their ducks in a row. I just want them (X) to be sure they do in fact address it with something official like a posting on their website.
I would hate for just some formal announcement at the X Champ. and that be it. We'd have 12 different stories of what went down by the time everyone got home!

There is alot to be addressed for sure. Was it just the Mosquito tourney, how do the winnings get distributed to the right teams, etc...YUK! I'm glad I'm not a tournament director!!!


----------



## dwmikemx

What no prosecution ??? These lowlife scumbags need to be made examples of as a deterrent to any future would-be cheaters and to show that rules mean something. Just having to "give back" the money is just a slap on the hands. IMHO.... book em Daniel


----------



## Bassbme

Kind of a follow up to my last post. My dad was out at Vic's today picking up some trolling motor batteries for the boat. He talked to Tom about this cheating scandal. Tom told him that Vic was inside writing their statement as he and my dad were speaking. So a statement is coming soon. As to where they are going to post it wasn't clear. I'd assume they will post it on their web site. Tom also told my dad that he, and Vic were sick over it, but that they wanted to do this the right way.


----------



## Javelin389T

Sad news.

Having worked with polygraphs,ill say they are unreliable.

They hold zero weight in a court of law.

No comment from accused.This holds more weight then a poly in most cases.


----------



## hopin to cash

The tournament directors who run the small local events (large local events also NIP) deserve a lot of respect and praise. Lets remember that there are rule infractions and even blatant cheating at all levels of tournament fishing. The directors of the large professional series' are doing it for a living. The local guys are running them for the love of the sport. Sure they may sell a boat or two with the publicity but they could do that by setting up at the local shopping mall twice a year with half the drama and work. Please support guys and groups like the "X" series and "DO BASS" group as they are trying their best to bring an opportunity for weekend anglers to experience tournament fishing with integrity. THANKS GUYS!!!!


----------



## Gsxrfanim

I can bet Vic and Tom are pretty sick over the deal because the guys caught have been fishing the X-Series since its inception over 10 yrs ago. 
This is a tough situation to hold them accountable for past events because you cant assume they have cheated all year. 
Look at the other cheaters in the news. They have pretty much just been banned indefinitely. (except Wellman) 
They could try to go after them for previous tourney winnings but they wouldnt win in court. They would just have to claim that this was their first time.
What is worse for them is that their name is tarnished in this area from tourney fishing.


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## bpittman00

Sad news. I know a lot of guys that work hard and don't win all the time. I feel bad for all that work hard to play fair and keep it fun.


----------



## fishingdude

dwmikemx said:


> What no prosecution ??? These lowlife scumbags need to be made examples of as a deterrent to any future would-be cheaters and to show that rules mean something. Just having to "give back" the money is just a slap on the hands. IMHO.... book em Daniel


I say make an example out of them. Some won't like this but like I care! Their faces should be posted at every bait shop in Ohio. The Gander Mountains, Dicks, Walmart, Kmart, and on and on. Their bosses should be contacted to let them in on the knowledge that these guys are cheats, theives, and true scum. If there wives and children are not aware, then they too should be made aware. Make an example to the other cronies that are even thinking about cheating, give them something burnt in their brains to think longer about it. Darcy Egan should have a write up in the PD. And all other local papers should post a story. Heck, they should be in the police blotter at the least. 

What a bunch of true IDIOTS!!!!!!


----------



## Procraftboats21

Fishingdude gets post of the year. These guys were caught redhanded. There's way to many good guys in these local events. One team cheating is not going to bring down our group of die hard honest guys. I speak for many when I say they won't let it happen. - Austin Dunlap... AL Gibbons me and the old man miss ya, give us a call sometime


----------



## JignPig Guide

Procraftboats21 said:


> Fishingdude gets post of the year.


Oh yea, Procraftboats21! I'll second that motion.


----------



## dwmikemx

fishingdude said:


> I say make an example out of them. Some won't like this but like I care! Their faces should be posted at every bait shop in Ohio. The Gander Mountains, Dicks, Walmart, Kmart, and on and on. Their bosses should be contacted to let them in on the knowledge that these guys are cheats, theives, and true scum. If there wives and children are not aware, then they too should be made aware. Make an example to the other cronies that are even thinking about cheating, give them something burnt in their brains to think longer about it. Darcy Egan should have a write up in the PD. And all other local papers should post a story. Heck, they should be in the police blotter at the least.
> 
> What a bunch of true IDIOTS!!!!!!


Couldn't have said it better myself !! :good: 

I'm sure once the "offical" release is made public their pics will be posted all over the net labeled TOURNAMENT CHEATERS. After this,I can't imanagin these guys showing up at any local lakes/ramps. There must be loads of guys that know what their boats and tow vehicles look like. If they do, maybe they will be fishing with shopping bags over their heads.


----------



## Buick Riviera

FWIW, here's my thoughts:

1. Silence by the Tournament Director/sponsors reflects poorly on the Tournament Trail, sponsors and directors. There are lots of reasons for transparency no good reasons for a code of silence. It gives the appearance of a cover up or protection for the guilty. If there were valid reasons for the DQ then there are valid reasons to make a statement of why. Truth is an absolute defense so grow a couple and make a statement. There is no reason to be part of protecting the dishonest.

2. If the cheaters staked fish, they broke a variety of wildlife laws IN ADDITION to theft. If the Tournament Director/sponsors are aware of wildlife offenses and theft offenses (which I believe to be felonies given the amounts) and are covering up this behavior by not disclosing it and reporting it, they are part of the conspiracy to keep it quite and just as guilty as the perpetrators. PROSECUTE.

3. Buddy tournaments are always subject to these abuses. A buddy tournament has no checks or balances and it relies entirely on the honor and integrity of the tournament trail and its participants. So far this trail has not demonstrated the presence of either.

Buick


----------



## sporto

I have zero knowledge of the situation or anyone involved but have dealt with similar before. These days with the amount of money at stake cheaters are not only cheating but also committing a very serious crime, usually fraud or theft by deception. If there is an on-going investigation then the tournament officials wouldn't be able to speak publicly on it until the prosecuters office goes public....


----------



## Lundy

Buick Riviera said:


> FWIW, here's my thoughts:
> 
> 1. Silence by the Tournament Director/sponsors reflects poorly on the Tournament Trail, sponsors and directors. There are lots of reasons for transparency no good reasons for a code of silence. It gives the appearance of a cover up or protection for the guilty. If there were valid reasons for the DQ then there are valid reasons to make a statement of why. Truth is an absolute defense so grow a couple and make a statement. There is no reason to be part of protecting the dishonest.


There are a bunch of legalities to be considered that would require the process to be slow and for information released to the public to be zero during the process.

Even after the internal process has been completed there would and will be limitations of what should and can be said. These are not findings by a court of law, they are findings by a group of guys that run a tournament series. They will be careful about what they say because they open themselves up to legal ramifications if they are not.

As far as posting pictures of the accused around the web, be careful.

I hope they get what their actions have earned them but don't lay any of this at the feet of those running the series. If you try to do that you would seem to be ignorant of laws and legalities as it would pertain to this occurrence.


----------



## Buick Riviera

I say baloney to all of you who say "legalities" require hush-hush until "the investigation" is completed. What is there to complete? Just tell the truth about what happened in about 3 or 4 sentences. Something like this:

*"Yesterday Joe Doe and John Buck were disqualified under Rule X for failure to pass a polygraph test regarding their catch on Berlin Reservoir. The polygraph test was administered after Joe and John were given an opportunity to make a statement to the Tournament Director regarding a complaint he had received regarding their conduct."

"As a result of this disqualification, Joe and John also have been disqualified for this year's AOY award and banned from from all future tournaments of the XSeries as provided by Rule Y."

"The matter has been turned over to the County Prosecutor for consideration of applicable criminal charges"*

Now see how easy that was? No more speculation, rumors or threads on OGF. The integrity of the trail is protected with no "investigation" compromised.

And yes, I've been involved in these kind of legalities before and yes I've written these kind of statements before, and yes, if Vic and Tom want to adapt it for their use it is all theirs. No need to give me a call.

Buick


----------



## Harbor Hunter

Mixed feelings here-ONLY on where to proceed from here.I can understand the information from the tournament directors going slowly,if at all.I agree with what was said as far as certain things just can't be said,at least not publicly in case there is legal matters being discussed.However once the timing is right these two cheaters should be,and will be exposed statewide,if not nationally.There's a bass fishing website out there(at least there used to be)called something like Ultimate Bass.They have a section called "Cheaters of the Month".Any info about these two,plus any pics of them will be posted on sites like that I'm sure.I will act upon things myself as well once all the information is out.I will go on many,many sites and report their wrongdoings in hopes of preventing these cheaters from ever appearing at another tournament regardless of the size.I absolutely detest people like these two,but it does happen even in the larger circuits.I quit BASS as a member,and as a participant from any TX's they run solely because of the way the Nate Wellman incident was handled by them.After what he did at the open on Lake Erie and was only DQ'ed from that event,and the next open,but then was allowed to compete on this year's Elite Circuit,sickened me.Wellman and any other scumbag cheater should never,ever be allowed to compete in any tournament anywhere,and I will do my part to make sure these two get their exploits well publicized.


----------



## KaGee

From the TOS:


> Conduct: No... personal attacks, character assassination, etc. will be tolerated.


 This includes calling out other members in the public forum.

I understand the passions that get inflamed with these matters however, we are walking the line here fellas. Please tone down the rhetoric. 
Thank you.


----------



## Rivergetter

That was my bad. Thanks for pointing it out to me and not closing the thread can you delete my last post. 


_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


----------



## buckzye11

I just can't believe nothing about albino Snapping Turtles has been mentioned


----------



## johnboy111711

lmao buck lmao


----------



## K gonefishin

Buick Riviera said:


> I say baloney to all of you who say "legalities" require hush-hush until "the investigation" is completed. What is there to complete? Just tell the truth about what happened in about 3 or 4 sentences. Something like this:
> 
> *"Yesterday Joe Doe and John Buck were disqualified under Rule X for failure to pass a polygraph test regarding their catch on Berlin Reservoir. The polygraph test was administered after Joe and John were given an opportunity to make a statement to the Tournament Director regarding a complaint he had received regarding their conduct."
> 
> "As a result of this disqualification, Joe and John also have been disqualified for this year's AOY award and banned from from all future tournaments of the XSeries as provided by Rule Y."
> 
> "The matter has been turned over to the County Prosecutor for consideration of applicable criminal charges"*
> 
> Now see how easy that was? No more speculation, rumors or threads on OGF. The integrity of the trail is protected with no "investigation" compromised.
> 
> And yes, I've been involved in these kind of legalities before and yes I've written these kind of statements before, and yes, if Vic and Tom want to adapt it for their use it is all theirs. No need to give me a call.
> 
> Buick


How kind of you. 

First of all Tom nor Vic don't have accounts on Ogf Tommy can hardly work his smartphone. Ogf is not an outlet to throw these guys under the buss as much as we would all like it to be why everyone is acting like xseries owes something to Ogf and its 30k members is beyond my comprehension. 

Buick. Your completely out of line your basically saying xseries and its directors are incapable of writing a statement, a little downgrading at their intelligence don't you think? A ranger boat is on the line you have no idea if they have to contact ranger or other cash sponsors etc. so don't act like you have been there and done that you haven't, have some respect. Plus not even a week has past if you bought your ranger there you know how busy they are and Vic is in pa right now so he isn't even around!


----------



## bpittman00

Buick that rant is just silly.


----------



## Ogf's best

Bring your own bass........lol.....


----------



## hopintocash2

Ogf's best said:


> Bring your own bass........lol.....


 that is funny


----------



## Silent Mike

Buick Riviera said:


> I say baloney to all of you who say "legalities" require hush-hush until "the investigation" is completed. What is there to complete? Just tell the truth about what happened in about 3 or 4 sentences. Something like this:
> 
> *"Yesterday Joe Doe and John Buck were disqualified under Rule X for failure to pass a polygraph test regarding their catch on Berlin Reservoir. The polygraph test was administered after Joe and John were given an opportunity to make a statement to the Tournament Director regarding a complaint he had received regarding their conduct."
> 
> "As a result of this disqualification, Joe and John also have been disqualified for this year's AOY award and banned from from all future tournaments of the XSeries as provided by Rule Y."
> 
> "The matter has been turned over to the County Prosecutor for consideration of applicable criminal charges"*
> 
> Now see how easy that was? No more speculation, rumors or threads on OGF. The integrity of the trail is protected with no "investigation" compromised.
> 
> And yes, I've been involved in these kind of legalities before and yes I've written these kind of statements before, and yes, if Vic and Tom want to adapt it for their use it is all theirs. No need to give me a call.
> 
> Buick


..........


----------



## lotaluck

bpittman00 said:


> Buick that rant is just silly.


I dont think so, I think his request is very reasonable. I consider Tom and Vic good friends as we go back 25 or 30 years so im not saying anything here I wouldent say to them. Just watch the evening news any night of the week and you will see Buicks request is not out of line. Its very comon to release a statement when a criminal act has taken place with just the basic information of what has happend and what the next step is.


----------



## imalt

Does anyone know if this is just for the one tournament or are they able to prove it for past tournaments? Seems like if it is over a number of tournaments that is a serious amount of money. It will be interesting to see what criminal charges if any are pressed. By the way does this mean the albino snapping turtle was a lie too?


----------



## K gonefishin

lotaluck said:


> I dont think so, I think his request is very reasonable. I consider Tom and Vic good friends as we go back 25 or 30 years so im not saying anything here I wouldent say to them. Just watch the evening news any night of the week and you will see Buicks request is not out of line. Its very comon to release a statement when a criminal act has taken place with just the basic information of what has happend and what the next step is.


This isn't a court of law, it's a couple guys who run a boat dealership, one of whom who has been fishing in PA all week. IF you want to compare it to a court of law, prosecutors also have all their ducks in a row before issuing statements and since Tom, George and Vic have never dealt with this type of thing before its pretty safe to assume they don't. 

They OBVIOUSLY reversed who are the points champs, what is happening NEXT is what they are trying to figure out and since that is between the cheaters, Xseries and potentially the law...you guys may never find out till it becomes public record...if it does.


----------



## dwmikemx

lotaluck said:


> I dont think so, I think his request is very reasonable. I consider Tom and Vic good friends as we go back 25 or 30 years so im not saying anything here I wouldent say to them. Just watch the evening news any night of the week and you will see Buicks request is not out of line. Its very comon to release a statement when a criminal act has taken place with just the basic information of what has happend and what the next step is.


I also agree. However... 
I think everyone is missing the big picture here. It now boils down to credibility and the reputation of the X Series. Are they going to push this to the fullest to let everyone know in no uncertain terms that cheating will not be tolerated. Or just quietly sweep things under the rug and hope everything cools off?? As I have posted earlier. just having to give back the ill -gotten money is just a slap on the hands. 

Would anyone only expect a bank robber to just give back the money as punishment ?


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## Scum_Frog

These guys definitely need there punishment to be one for the record books....especially if there is any way to prove that they have done so in previous tournaments.....If it is provable I say fine them what they have won....ban there fishing licenses for life.....extreme or not you have chosen to enter yourself into a Bass tournament and have CHEATED for a nice amount purchase prize.....

I think if this one gets "swept under the rug" a TON of respect will be lost and a lot of people will be turned away from bass tournament fishing....who have already done so because of cheaters. A slap on the wrist just wont do.


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## Harbor Hunter

All I have to go on this story is what has been said on here.There isn't a certain level of cheating to base anything on,cheating is cheating no matter if it was at one TX,or several.If what was said earlier turns out to be true regarding staking bass,then not only does it become a major issue with the tournament directors,it also is against the laws of the ODNR,plus it's fraud which makes it against the laws of Ohio in general.I fully understand how difficult this situation is for the folks running this series,but I have to agree with others regarding getting the word out.I don't think we should expect to hear anything for awhile,but once they have "their ducks in a row",I would hope they would go public with this information.I know I certainly don't want to enter into any tournament these two are in.All I'm asking is for the names of these two to be put out there so they're exposed if they happen to enter TX's in the future.The X Series can do whatever they want to these two,same as the law,but for my own benefit and others that fish a lot of TX's,I just want to know their names so I don't end up in some TX down the road that they're in.


----------



## PapawSmith

Let me start by saying I do NOT condone cheating and and I am not and would not ever defend anyone that would cheat at anything. Especially a paying competition that derives it's payout through contributions made by those vying for the same. That said, I cannot believe some of the absolute ignorance displayed in this thread. I cannot believe how many guys that still are flat calling for these guys heads yet have no idea what it is that got them disqualified from the X-Series events. I think we all know at this point that they both failed polygraph tests (hope nobody here ever has to pin their serious hopes for ANYTHING on the result of a polygraph test), and we know they both admitted to "making bad decisions. Nobody here knows for a fact what those decisions might be. Bad decisions could be anything from staking a fish, like so many of you have already 'imagined' and prosecuted them for, to taking a call from a friendly competitor during the tourney and being told " caught a few tossing X in dark colors in X bay or off X point in 6' of water, and then acting on that info. Bad decisions can be sitting in the pub the night before the event and a guy says "give me $100 and I'll tell you where I guarantee you can have 15 lbs by 10 am, and you hand him $100 bill. Bad decisions can be staking fish, placing fish boxes, or having others drop you fish throughout the course of the day. Thing is 'bad decisions', in an event like the one these guys have been run from, can run the gambit from deliberately setting out to cheat and steal from others, to doing something totally stupid and out of ones ordinary character. You need to punish deliberate cheaters with all available authority, but IMO need to restrain actions to those that make foolish and uncharacteristic mistakes/decisions to being really really pissed off at them. DQ them, ban them, criticize them on public forums like this, but do not call for their lynching. I have no idea what these two guys did and neither do any of you. There are several that want to "throw the book at them" but you have no idea what book to throw. A bunch of you want to see them "prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law" but you have no idea what the law allows here because there is no indication, at this point, that any "crime" has even been committed. We only know for sure that they were DQ'd from the X-Series events they competed in this year. I don't personally know either of these two guys but I do know they fish several events, some I've competed in myself, and until now, to my knowledge, they have not been suspected of cheating. I hear rumors like a lot of you and the "rumor" that I've heard is that they've admitted to an infraction while fishing a tourney. I was told what the 'infraction' was now twice, and I would say there are normally 60 boats in each of the tourneys that I fish and I would be willing to bet half of those boats would have not known exactly the rules are when encountered with the situation that led to this 'infraction' these guys admitted to. And I bet at least half of those guys would have done exactly the same thing as these guys are alleged to do in the "rumor" I hear. My "rumor" may mean absolutely nothing and neither may yours. I say wait to see what the people that know have to say before we start telling others, like the X-Series boys, what the hell they should be doing 'right now' about this. Put down the noose, take a sip of your beer, and relax. There will be plenty of time for your lynch mob to hang them later if you find out FOR SURE that they did indeed cheat. And if you find out that they were just really stupid for a moment then you can chastise and hate them forever if you want.


----------



## dwmikemx

Ignorance?? I see no ignorance here just different opinions.


----------



## firstflight111

PapawSmith said:


> Let me start by saying I do NOT condone cheating and and I am not and would not ever defend anyone that would cheat at anything. Especially a paying competition that derives it's payout through contributions made by those vying for the same. That said, I cannot believe some of the absolute ignorance displayed in this thread. I cannot believe how many guys that still are flat calling for these guys heads yet have no idea what it is that got them disqualified from the X-Series events. I think we all know at this point that they both failed polygraph tests (hope nobody here ever has to pin their serious hopes for ANYTHING on the result of a polygraph test), and we know they both admitted to "making bad decisions. Nobody here knows for a fact what those decisions might be. Bad decisions could be anything from staking a fish, like so many of you have already 'imagined' and prosecuted them for, to taking a call from a friendly competitor during the tourney and being told " caught a few tossing X in dark colors in X bay or off X point in 6' of water, and then acting on that info. Bad decisions can be sitting in the pub the night before the event and a guy says "give me $100 and I'll tell you where I guarantee you can have 15 lbs by 10 am, and you hand him $100 bill. Bad decisions can be staking fish, placing fish boxes, or having others drop you fish throughout the course of the day. Thing is 'bad decisions', in an event like the one these guys have been run from, can run the gambit from deliberately setting out to cheat and steal from others, to doing something totally stupid and out of ones ordinary character. You need to punish deliberate cheaters with all available authority, but IMO need to restrain actions to those that make foolish and uncharacteristic mistakes/decisions to being really really pissed off at them. DQ them, ban them, criticize them on public forums like this, but do not call for their lynching. I have no idea what these two guys did and neither do any of you. There are several that want to "throw the book at them" but you have no idea what book to throw. A bunch of you want to see them "prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law" but you have no idea what the law allows here because there is no indication, at this point, that any "crime" has even been committed. We only know for sure that they were DQ'd from the X-Series events they competed in this year. I don't personally know either of these two guys but I do know they fish several events, some I've competed in myself, and until now, to my knowledge, they have not been suspected of cheating. I hear rumors like a lot of you and the "rumor" that I've heard is that they've admitted to an infraction while fishing a tourney. I was told what the 'infraction' was now twice, and I would say there are normally 60 boats in each of the tourneys that I fish and I would be willing to bet half of those boats would have not known exactly the rules are when encountered with the situation that led to this 'infraction' these guys admitted to. And I bet at least half of those guys would have done exactly the same thing as these guys are alleged to do in the "rumor" I hear. My "rumor" may mean absolutely nothing and neither may yours. I say wait to see what the people that know have to say before we start telling others, like the X-Series boys, what the hell they should be doing 'right now' about this. Put down the noose, take a sip of your beer, and relax. There will be plenty of time for your lynch mob to hang them later if you find out FOR SURE that they did indeed cheat. And if you find out that they were just really stupid for a moment then you can chastise and hate them forever if you want.




OH I KNOW KNOW WHAT HAPPEND NOW ..TALKED TO SOME PEOPLE AROUND ..AND...... WOW.........THATS ALL I CAN SAY ....


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

dwmikemx said:


> Ignorance?? I see no ignorance here just different opinions.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorance

ig·no·rance&#8194; &#8194;[ig-ner-uhns] Show IPA
noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.


By definition, ignorance is Exactly what all this is since noone has any facts.


----------



## Buick Riviera

Papaw's observations are EXACTLY why the XSeries needs to issue a statement. Rumor, innuendo and speculation isn't fair to anyone involved.

Buick


----------



## bpittman00

I can see both sides I guess. Once the whole sorry comes out it will put a lot of this to rest.


----------



## hopin to cash

Did you suspect these guys as possible cheaters or unethical fisherman when you shared boat time with them?


----------



## K gonefishin

Buick Riviera said:


> Papaw's observations are EXACTLY why the XSeries needs to issue a statement. Rumor, innuendo and speculation isn't fair to anyone involved.
> 
> Buick


Posts like his are exactly why people should learn to use paragraphs.


----------



## BigDaddy300

K gonefishin said:


> Posts like his are exactly why people should learn to use paragraphs.


Just imagine if Eriesteamer would have typed that papagraph!


----------



## PapawSmith

K gonefishin said:


> Posts like his are exactly why people should learn to use paragraphs.


If I would have separated thoughts into paragraphs it would have added extra space, stretched the post out, and made it seem kind of long, don't you think?


----------



## Bassbme

BigDaddy300 said:


> Just imagine if Eriesteamer would have typed that papagraph!


Now there's a thought that's gonna fester.


----------



## firstflight111

hopin to cash said:


> Did you suspect these guys as possible cheaters or unethical fisherman when you shared boat time with them?


no i realy thought makefish was good fisherman the hand full of times we went out ..he always did good when we fished ....it just blows my mind ..glad i never fish any tournaments with him ....


----------



## charles d minor

Does anyone really know what happened ? You guys are jumping the gun. I know one thing. Mark would not have to cheat to win. He is a darn good fisherman. Lets wait to hear what facts if they have.


----------



## hopintocash2

charles d minor said:


> Does anyone really know what happened ? You guys are jumping the gun. I know one thing. Mark would not have to cheat to win. He is a darn good fisherman. Lets wait to hear what facts if they have.


that seems to be the problem here, no facts. Until then, this thread is nothing more than gossip and speculation. Let's all take a breath and wait to hear what really happened. :C


----------



## Cull'in

charles d minor said:


> Does anyone really know what happened ? You guys are jumping the gun. I know one thing. Mark would not have to cheat to win. He is a darn good fisherman. Lets wait to hear what facts if they have.


There seems to be one common story going around and it ain't good.

I'll be happy when Vic's finally issues their response.


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## Bad Bub

If you go back through the standings for the team in question, their average finish in the x-series was around 35th place. Then all of a sudden this year they win the points title with a win and a few top 5 finishes. I know fishing can be streaky, and momentum is a huge factor. But by what i'm told, that's what initially threw up the red flags.....

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----------



## Skarfer

charles d minor said:


> I know one thing. *Mark would not have to cheat to win. He is a darn good fisherman*. Lets wait to hear what facts if they have.


HAHA!! That's the funniest thing I've read on this thread..........he's NOT that good of a fisherman, THAT'S the reason for the suspicion in the first place!!!!!! 

I'd just like to know how they caught a limit of big largemouths, when the rest of the field caught all smallies and couldn't catch any greenies..........


----------



## RANGER16

Does anybody know the results from Chautauqua?


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## Millhouse

FYI....Here is a photo of the guys in question. This is disappointing to say the least. Thankfully, I didn't participate in this tournament. However, I did finish 1st in a NOAA tourney at Portage a few years ago after the team that had the biggest bag was DQ'd for cheating. If I remember correctly, they had staged bass in submerged trash bags around the lakes......Pretty pathetic.


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## lotaluck

http://www.dobass.com/07POWERHOUSE/ODNRINVESTIGATION/COMPLETE.html

I remember when the above link played out and can only wonder if someone got nabbed this time. That dude aint jacking around!!!


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## lakewarrior

Hey Everyone,

Chautauqua was a great tournament. Maloney and partner won with two days of Smallmouth. 35 pounds total (great job guys). 19 plus the first day and 15 day two. Last years winners made another run at it and almost pulled a back to back. Fishing was a bit tough with the water temp dropping quick. Dock fish were far and few between (1 every hour or so for a good one). Greenies were hard to find period.

News on the cheating: The team in question has paid back $7,800 of the $10,100 they owe from this year. That's a start and hopefully they do the right thing and pay the remainder soon.

Tom made an announcement on day one and explained why they delayed a public statement. They are following the advice of an attorney. The statement probably will not be posted here because I do not think they have OGF accounts. I am sure someone will post their official statement when it is released.

The facts are the team failed the polygraph(s) which lead to more questioning. Afterwards they were DQ'd. They are paying back the money they won this year. No one but the team in question will ever know the extent of the cheating, if it was one tournament or many or how long it was going on. 

That's about all for now.


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## GARNERMAN357

how much more can you ask for. thanks for the post too. my thoughts is why would they post on this site. here its just a bunch of he said she said. i respect there way of dealing with this issue and enjoyed hearing the reasults of the turny. almost time to put this one to bed.


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## Harbor Hunter

Thank you lakewarrior for shedding some light on this unfortunate incident.For Papaw and others I'm sure you read lakewarriors last paragraph.Yes,they did fail the polygraph,and yes they are being labeled as cheaters by the people that competed against them,and I'm sure they know the story.At this point the only thing that's in question is for how long did they cheat,not whether or not they cheated,we all know now they did.I fully understand the lawyers take on this subject,and I will no longer discuss it,I found out what I needed to know.


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## Cull'in

lakewarrior said:


> _News on the cheating: The team in question has paid back $7,800 of the $10,100 they owe from this year._
> 
> _They are paying back the money they won this year._



Definitely sounds as though the extent of cheating went well beyond one tournament.


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## Nipididdee

I'm goona hijack the thread now and turn the "controversy" thread into a "congratulations" set of comments 

First to Mick Maloney and Dave Nolen - these dudes are remarkable and birthed right from Mother LaDO! in 2003. The Ranger boat win ices the cake for Maloney with an unprecedented season of consistency.

Second to the X-series officials, all of 'em, for jacking the bad dudes and removing those enemies from the game. 

Third to everyone who managed to keep it in check and not getting this thread locked. 

NOW...redirect your frustrations away from the officials and back onto the perps...they have a good head start, sounds like they are just a few thousand away...  RUN!

nip


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## lotaluck

Well my hats off to these guys that are in question. They must have made a good impression over the years with their fellow anglers. I must confess I allways enjoyed reading markfish' post on here and seeing as how I have no skin in the game I guess I will let it sit also. Over 100 post and still no clue what happend. The tourny community is much more loyal than I had ever imagined.


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## Lewzer

Here is an interesting article on a similar subject in a Texas tournament from today's NY Times newspaper. Hope you all can open it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/u...aments-lure-competitors-and-fraud.html?ref=us


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## Bassbme

Holy smokes.......a 5 fish 19.66 bag of smallmouth ...... talk about a bag of bronze. Great job by the winners. And thank you to lakewarrior for the post on the scandal. Paying back the money is probably some deal to avoid prosecution. Lets hope the names of the perps gets spread around to the whole tournament fishing community. Here and in the surrounding states. We don't need known cheaters among us. Hopefully this scandal hasn't hurt Vic and the guys reputation with their sponsors. I know it won't hurt their reputation in tournament circles. They run a great tournament circuit.


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## bman

It's so disheartening to hear about another tourney cheating incident. I have fished only a handful of small tourneys, and hope to fish more with friends and my son in a few years when my he's older. These stories take a little energy out of the fire for me. The reality is its obviously too easy to cheat at these tourneys. You'd think the team tourney format would cut down on it (surely there can't be TWO people willing to cheat!) but that's obviously not the case.

The bottom line? Fishing tourney cheaters are criminals; they are stealing from people. If a law isn't already on the books in Ohio that would enable law enforcement and the innocent parties to prosecute these types of criminals...well, there should be.

I think all tx directors, teams, members and the entire tourney fishing community should publicly persecute any individuals that have been confirmed as cheaters. Let's make it known that if you get caught, you will pay dearly. You cheat, then you will pay with your reputation in addition to any legal ramifications.

There will always be cheating when money is involved. I don't like it but it's a fact and I can deal with that. But I think the tourney community needs to do even more to prevent cheating. How about starting a national fishing tourney cheater list so these idiots don't show up somewhere else? One and done for these jerks who are spoiling it for the rest of us. Even if its informal, start a list and publish it on your tx organization websites! Just the facts....nothing slanderous. For example, "the following individuals were disqualified from a bass fishing tourney in Ohio in 2012 after failing a polygraph."

Like I said, I've only fished a handful of small tx in my life, and I've really enjoyed then competition. It really adds an element of excitement to catching a few keepers! I hope the tx community does more to increase the confidence of the tx format. More can be done.


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## PapawSmith

bman said:


> The bottom line? Fishing tourney cheaters are criminals; they are stealing from people. If a law isn't already on the books in Ohio that would enable law enforcement and the innocent parties to prosecute these types of criminals...well, there should be..


I agree 100%. I was very surprised to read it the article posted by lewzer about the Texas tourney to read that "Texas is the only state with a tournament fishing fraud law". Granted that cheating in any event that results in ill gained financial rewards would be deemed a crime, but a law in place that explicitly targets an illegal and intentional practice of cheating at a specific event makes it much easier to prosecute those cheaters. As common as fishing tourneys are, there should be a fraud law in Ohio to help discourage the practice of cheating and help prosecute those that are proven to do so.


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## dwmikemx

I wish someone "in the know" would explain exactly what happened. We have heard everything from "bad decisions " to fish tied up . 

Whats the true story here? Did these guys actually cheat or was it just a big misunderstanding or just some other infractions like having an over powered boat, using live bait, fishing in off limit waters, being on plane in a no wake zone or wiggin out like Ike that caused them to be DQ'd ?


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## Gomez

I'll share what I heard at the meeting friday night at Chautauqua...

They admitted to snagging a dock or a line on a dock and finding a piece of fishing line sticking out of the water. They pulled it up and there was a 4 lb bass on the end...they put it in their livewell. This is all that they admitted to, however, they failed the polygraph testing on most tournament questions asked. Thats all anyone knows...as stated earlier only THEY know the extent of the cheating. Admitting to cheating once means that they always cheated in my book. JMO. 
This supposedly happened at the Lake Milton X-Series tourney.


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## Dan21XRS

Bassbme said:


> Paying back the money is probably some deal to avoid prosecution.
> 
> Hopefully this scandal hasn't hurt Vic and the guys reputation with their sponsors. I know it won't hurt their reputation in tournament circles. They run a great tournament circuit.


If the "paying back" is to avoid prosecution that would definitely hurt X Series reputation. They'd be shown to have no backbone to enforce their rules. If they truly cheated and profited then they need to feel the full force of the law... Dan


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## lotaluck

Gomez said:


> I'll share what I heard at the meeting friday night at Chautauqua...
> 
> They admitted to snagging a dock or a line on a dock and finding a piece of fishing line sticking out of the water. They pulled it up and there was a 4 lb bass on the end...they put it in their livewell. This is all that they admitted to, however, they failed the polygraph testing on most tournament questions asked. Thats all anyone knows...as stated earlier only THEY know the extent of the cheating. Admitting to cheating once means that they always cheated in my book. JMO.
> This supposedly happened at the Lake Milton X-Series tourney.


Wow post number 142 nailed it, thank you Gomez. That is the info thousands of people have opend this thread to find.


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## PapawSmith

Very similar to what I previously had heard from two different sources. I heard that they had snagged a line and on retrieval realized that had a 4lb fish attached and they kept and weighed it. I heard they failed a poly test and subsequently admitted to this "poor decision". Still a "rumor" to me until one of the offenders or tourney officials verifies it. In my earlier long winded post I said that I believed that a minor but still significant percentage of participants in a sixty boat field might do the same in a similar situation and, sadly, I still stand by that assertion.


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## seapro

I don't see anything but guilt being displayed. What caused the TX director to want a poly? Why hasn't one of them come on here and stated their case? Why did they agree to pay back all of the money won this year? 

To say that a small percentage would probably do the same thing if they found a fish on the end of a line?? I don't agree with that at all. Any self respecting sportsman follows the rules, it's what allows the self respect!! 

When you do the math, it all adds up to guilt in my opinion! You know what, it probably had very little to do with the money as much as it had to do with EGO!! How good does your ego feel now?


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## bman

I'm curious...how did tx officials even find out about the manner in which they got that 4lber?


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## Rivergetter

seapro said:


> I don't see anything but guilt being displayed. What caused the TX director to want a poly? Why hasn't one of them come on here and stated their case? Why did they agree to pay back all of the money won this year?
> 
> To say that a small percentage would probably do the same thing if they found a fish on the end of a line?? I don't agree with that at all. Any self respecting sportsman follows the rules, it's what allows the self respect!!
> 
> When you do the math, it all adds up to guilt in my opinion! You know what, it probably had very little to do with the money as much as it had to do with EGO!! How good does your ego feel now?


 I agree 100% with you. 


_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


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## Cull'in

_They admitted to snagging a dock or a line on a dock and finding a piece of fishing line sticking out of the water. They pulled it up and there was a 4 lb bass on the end...they put it in their livewell._

Good Lord, I woulda flat out just denied any wrongdoing at all before I spit out a cockamamie story like that! LMBO


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## cedar1

Cull'in said:


> _They admitted to snagging a dock or a line on a dock and finding a piece of fishing line sticking out of the water. They pulled it up and there was a 4 lb bass on the end...they put it in their livewell._
> 
> Good Lord, I woulda flat out just denied any wrongdoing at all before I spit out a cockamamie story like that! LMBO


I'm with you on that one Cullin. Who in the heck did they think would believe that crap. What a joke!


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## Gomez

Not sure who has seen this yet but this is what is posted on X-Series website now....

*ATTN: All X-Series Competitors:

The team of Chris Corns and Mark Carl have been suspended indefinitely from competition for actions detrimental to tournament bass fishing. The team is in the process of returning trophies and funds paid to them during the 2012 season.

More information forthcoming as it becomes available.
*

Copied and pasted from the X website


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## dwmikemx

Well..Thanks for clearing this up. I guess we now know the rest of the story. WOW, "suspended indefinitely" that's like a long time LOL. The a-holes in question have been ID'd and an official statement has been made. All clear to re-post the pics of the verified cheaters. Maybe we will also see their pictures on a milk carton some day..


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## KaGee

dwmikemx said:


> Well..Thanks for clearing this up. I guess we now know the rest of the story. WOW, "suspended indefinitely" that's like a long time LOL. The a-holes in question have been ID'd and an official statement has been made. *All clear to re-post the pics of the verified cheaters.* Maybe we will also see their pictures on a milk carton some day..


Ummmmm, no.


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## dwmikemx

KaGee said:


> Ummmmm, no.



Why not??? You kinn to the dummies or something? Everything has been verified.


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## bassmastermjb

No need to make an example out of the 2 cheaters, the next one that cheats gets the same punishment. So far, there has been no real punishment handed down from anyone. The 4lb bass at the end of a broken line story just doesn't fly either. Hopefully those out of the loop, like myself, will see it in print someday what really happened to catch the tournament directors attention..........Mark


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## Nipididdee

As much as I promised myself to keep my largemouth closed and fins in my pockets...

Here it goes:

1. Criminal statues in Ohio are on the books- as with any crime, each state handles each matter differently. 

2.Caught cheaters, as these two are now offcially, are persecuted at an angling/societal level *WAY* beyond anything the Court's would ever do.

3.#2 is exactly why an organizational statement will/would be limited if at all.

History suggests (google it): houses have burned, people shot at, beatup, business' ruined, etc. If the masses go vigilante, the organization could be targeted as soliciting the harm upon the dirtbags.

4.Most will never know- and for good reason, especially on public forums, the organization's behind the scenes actions/efforts that results in rule breakers getting caught. Bad guys have computers too... 

5. Fishing is a very positive thing. "The enemy" is not just these two ding dongs of current- but how they impress the true "enemy" onto the future of the group- DONT LET THEM WIN! 

*bman*...keep on fishin'- your post most concerned me as you are the kinda angler good organizations desire to serve...and you will enjoy!

http://www.dobass.com/THEENEMY.html

Good job X-series!!! Kuddos to you for keeping grassrooted angling at it's finest!

nip


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## bman

Nipididdee said:


> *bman*...keep on fishin'- your post most concerned me as you are the kinda angler good organizations desire to serve...and you will enjoy!
> 
> nip


Thanks Nip. I'm off the ledge now. I think the key is for me to remember that it's for fun, and its really just between me and the bass. And, getting involved with a good club is key.

Tight lines everyone and kudos for the X guys for doing what it takes to keep this garbage out of our sport!


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## KaGee

dwmikemx said:


> Why not??? You kinn to the dummies or something? Everything has been verified.


Not their kin, don't know them, don't care to know them. But that's irrelevant. We owe no explanation on the matter other than posting their pictures or any of their personal information on this forum will violate the TOS. The offending poster will lose their privileges here immediately. Clear?


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## hopin to cash

Just search the threads here on OGF they have posted their own photos for you. Besides I'm sure most of the advertisers here would love all us searching the threads for pictures of the perpetrators. This isn't about them anymore lets move on to strengthening our love of the sport and our desire to compete. I don't fish many tournys but when I do I just pray the directors are equally up to the professionalism like the "X" series and "Do Bass" boys have deminstrated over the years. That's what keeps us all just "hopin to cash" some time. "maybe they can fix my spelling here also"...lol


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## Bassbme

yellow20xd said:


> If the "paying back" is to avoid prosecution that would definitely hurt X Series reputation. They'd be shown to have no backbone to enforce their rules. If they truly cheated and profited then they need to feel the full force of the law... Dan


You're absolutely right. I hadn't thought of it that way. I know Vic and Tom better than that. I should have known better to think they would allow them to escape possible prosecution. I apologize and retract that part of my post. 

As far as the X Series and the Do Bass guys professionalism mentioned by hopin to cash. I couldn't agree more. I've fished some of their tournaments in the past, and they are by far the most well run tournaments I have fished. Kudos guys !!!

As far as Pawpa's statement that "a minor but still significant percentage of participants in a sixty boat field might do the same in a similar situation and, sadly, I still stand by that assertion." Sorry...... but I gotta disagree...... I don't know anyone that would do that. I'm sure there are some that may, but I don't think it would be a "significant percentage" 

I don't know....... maybe I'm too trusting. It's not an Andy Griffith world anymore.....


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## jrbird

I a'm not a bass fisherman but I have been following this post. Its time to let this go. It has been dealt with and the one's in question have been dealt with. Let's all of us do a better job teaching our children good sportsmanship and that cheating doesn't prosper. After all our kids are the future of any sport.


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## Harbor Hunter

If I really believed that even a small percentage of guys would cheat during a tournament,I would never fish one again-period.I've fished literally dozens upon dozens of TX's over the years,I've only once suspected someone of foul play and that came earlier this year.There's always going to be some that can't abide by the rules,but that number when talking about bass TX's is so small I don't think there would be a percentage to go by.The story about snagging a line with a 4lb.bass on it is the most ridiculous lie I've heard in quite some time,it's laughable.We all know how that bass got in the livewell,too bad they still can't tell the truth,even after failing the polygraph-lol! As far as the statement that others would've done the same had they "accidentally snagged"a line with a 4lb.bass on it,if you truly believe that then I would seriously consider fishing with a different bunch of dudes.


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## Bad Bub

Harbor Hunter said:


> If I really believed that even a small percentage of guys would cheat during a tournament,I would never fish one again-period.I've fished literally dozens upon dozens of TX's over the years,I've only once suspected someone of foul play and that came earlier this year.There's always going to be some that can't abide by the rules,but that number when talking about bass TX's is so small I don't think there would be a percentage to go by.The story about snagging a line with a 4lb.bass on it is the most ridiculous lie I've heard in quite some time,it's laughable.We all know how that bass got in the livewell,too bad they still can't tell the truth,even after failing the polygraph-lol! As far as the statement that others would've done the same had they "accidentally snagged"a line with a 4lb.bass on it,if you truly believe that then I would seriously consider fishing with a different bunch of dudes.


Amen!

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## PapawSmith

Harbor Hunter said:


> If I really believed that even a small percentage of guys would cheat during a tournament,I would never fish one again-period.There's always going to be some that can't abide by the rules,but that number when talking about bass TX's is so small I don't think there would be a percentage to go by. As far as the statement that others would've done the same had they &quot;accidentally snagged&quot;a line with a 4lb.bass on it,if you truly believe that then I would seriously consider fishing with a different bunch of dudes.


What "different bunch of dudes" to you suggest? While I wish your unrealistic assumptions about the angelic morals of all bass tourney guys were correct, the fact is bass tournament fishermen do not represent any different slice of the human pie then any other random group. Bass tourney guys are no more loyal to the sport or our rivals than are NFL players, MLB players, Tour De France competitors, bowlers, card players, on and on. Cheaters have been caught at all levels of bass competitions same as all the other example groups, most of which, have much more to lose if caught.

Sorry, but it is an established fact of human behavior that whenever competition, especially paying competition, is used to motivate a popular/desirable activity, or to promote a more productive effort, it will also motivate undesirable and prohibited behaviors, i.e. cheating. It is also well established that when even the slightest level of cheating can greatly affect the outcome of a competition due to it's often low margin of victory, like a few ounces in bass tournaments, both the incentive to cheat and the likelihood that cheating occurs is greatly enhanced.

Studies have shown that 28% of married men admit to cheating on or having cheated on their spouse but research believes that number closer to 45%. Lets take the 28% that freely admit to cheating on their wife and apply it to a relative cross section of 120 men that happen to be fishing a bass tourney in 60 different boats for a $5000 prize. Science tells us that established behavioral odds indicate that at least 34 of these fishermen do or have cheated on their wife. If 34 of these guys are willing to risk their marriage, their families, their personal/professional reputation, 1/2 the crap they've accumulated to this point in life for an hour of fun with another woman do you think for a second that at least a few of them would not be willing to screw you in a fishing tournament for bragging rights and $5000? Really, and all he has to really to lose here is a reputation with a bunch of guys he rarely sees and a ban from a sport that he never wins at anyway? That is, never wins without cheating.

I wish you were right but you are wrong. The fact that you "only once suspected someone of foul play" has nothing to do with what EVERY individual participants motive that, or any other day might be. These two clowns cheated in the X-Series, guys have cheated in other tourneys, I've participated in very well organized tourneys where cheaters were caught, and I fish very few. You fish with cheaters in every tourney of significance you participate in. They may not cheat at fishing that day, they may not be successful at cheating that day, but the A-holes are there whether or not you like or are willing to admit it. 

People just sometimes suck, sad but true.


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## Bassboy883

If you claim there are 34 guys in every tournament, you are saying 17 teams cheat in every tournament. That means about 29 teams are going to cheat in Madness this year. What about FLW and the Elite series? do 28% of those guys cheat? I don't think so. Most tournaments only offer 10 checks where Madness offers 15. Either we have some really, really bad cheaters, or your unrealistic view of the tournament community is way off. I'm going with the latter. 99% of fisherman are honest, good all around guys. I've made a lot of friends through fishing, and learned a lot from tournament guys. Maybe you should come out to an NOAA or an X-series and see for yourself what a good group of guys compete in these events and how well they are run.


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## Dinger

Haters gonna hate!

Ding


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## KaGee

I do believe the OP has had question mostly answered.


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