# opinions on Why Hunting/Fishing License Sales down 2 years in a row?



## carp (Oct 31, 2011)

I know there are lots of opinions on this issue,,, but hunting/fishing license sales are down significantly again according to ODW.

35% last year

early results say at least 25% this year.

I'm saying lack of access to hunting ground has impacted the most.

I have some good propertys to hunt,,, but the land I had permission to hunt has shrunk 50 %- 60% over the last decade.


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## F1504X4 (Mar 23, 2008)

I think a lot has to do with the economy. By the time you buy the license, deer tags, waterfowl tags, trapping permits it can get expensive depending on the combo purchased. Then if you shoot a deer and don't know how to process it yourself, your dropping probably close to another 100 bucks. There is nothing cheap about hunting and I think in some peoples cases they can either make payments on bills or go hunting. Not to mention all the money we all spend every year on the latest and greatest. LOL


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

Maybe it's because there are less deer and people are sick of the ODNR lying about it. Just a guess though.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

carp,

can you provide a source for the percentage of reduction please.

A 35% reduction from 2011 - 2012 sounds extremely high and then an additional 25% reduction this year, 2012 to 2013, would mean that only 48% as many people are buying hunting and fishing licenses that purchased them in 2011. I question someone's math somewhere,


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## treytd32 (Jun 12, 2009)

I know the neighbor of my property and his son and brother hunt and he said none of them have bought licenses or bother tagging their deer for at least the last 5 years. They just do all the butcher work themselves so no one ever knows bambi and his parents are sitting in their freezers. And no I'm not going to report them from his story, no one likes a tattle tale and I don't want all of my stuff disappearing the next time I go out there since he lives out there. 

Maybe others are going this route instead of spending the money on doing it the legal way.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

treytd32 said:


> Maybe others are going this route instead of spending the money on doing it the legal way.


Maybe, but the deer harvest numbers don't support a big reduction in license or tag sales.

He did however quote a reduction in hunting AND fishing license sales, so who knows how that all adds up. That's why I would like to see the numbers.


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## F1504X4 (Mar 23, 2008)

Another reason may be that more people are sticking to their own property thus not needing to purchase a license. 


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## treytd32 (Jun 12, 2009)

technically you still need a license, but not a either sex or early doe tag. I think you mean the land owner tag you can print off.


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## carxman17 (Aug 23, 2007)

I think there are a lot of factors. Cost is one.. lack of private ground to hunt is also one... I also think there is a lot of people not reporting kills... I don't think there is any shortage of deer out there depending on where you are but, they did reduce the limits in some areas!!!


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## mlayers (Aug 22, 2011)

I believe if has to do with lack of ground to hunt. I have been hunting for over 40 yrs and the land we can hunt on now if about a tenth of the size we used to hunt. Property owner has told me hunter has cut their fence or have bent them down to get over. Plus this one farmer had one of his cows shot. So he will not let anyone on his property. He has 2 or 3 people arrested every year for trespassing.


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## carp (Oct 31, 2011)

Lundy,

Check the Ohio Outdoor News publication,,, ODNR's statistics not mine!

Carp.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

treytd32 said:


> technically you still need a license, but not a either sex or early doe tag. I think you mean the land owner tag you can print off.



Ohio Resident landowners, spouses and their children - Are not required to have a hunting license, fur taker permit, either-sex deer permit, antlerless deer permit, spring or fall turkey permit or Ohio Wetland Habitat Stamp when they are hunting or trapping on land they own.


don't need a license either


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

2012 stats are on the ODNR website. It's the 4th year in a row that overall deer tag sales dropped.

I didn't take the time to verify if the percentages are accurate. I just know that deer tag sales decreased in 2012 for the 4th consecutive year. I am not surprised by this at all.


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## tehsavage (Aug 16, 2013)

I'd have to say its because everyone's license expire in February now. used to be a year from when u purchased it...if you gonna go for slug season in late november your paying 20 dollars in november then another 20 in February if u wanna do any other kind of hunting...states getting more money per person than they used to so DONT WORRY! All those guys with deep pockets are still getting deeper. Just pullin' the wool over your eyes....


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## Angler ss (May 15, 2008)

Some real good points already brought up cost,loss of hunting land,game population down, I think a big one is age of people who hunt old timers are calling it quits and not enough interest from young hunters. To much iPad and Xbox. The drop in fur price probably hasn't helped either.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

tehsavage said:


> I'd have to say its because everyone's license expire in February now. used to be a year from when u purchased it...if you gonna go for slug season in late november your paying 20 dollars in november then another 20 in February if u wanna do any other kind of hunting...states getting more money per person than they used to so DONT WORRY! All those guys with deep pockets are still getting deeper. Just pullin' the wool over your eyes....


The license has expired at the end of February since the 70's for sure, maybe even prior to that.

If like you say the one year from purchase is a concern and a hunter buys a license in Nov to slug hunt as you suggest, his license would expire right before the next slug season. Yearly out of pocket expense is exactly the same no matter when you purchase your license. Can you cite an example where someone is paying more with a end of Feb expiration versus a year from purchase?

All of the defined limited hunting seasons close by the last day of February, same date the license expires. There is no "season" in March except crows. Maybe you like to eat crow, not really sure.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

carp said:


> Lundy,
> 
> Check the Ohio Outdoor News publication,,, ODNR's statistics not mine!
> 
> Carp.


Go back and read that article a little more closely.

The numbers you cite were for a very short spring time period of the year NOT the total sales for the year.


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## treytd32 (Jun 12, 2009)

Thanks for the update, last time I looked I thought I read everyone needed a license and just printed the tags. Those numbers could drop even more when I don't buy one anymore


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## GABO (Apr 4, 2008)

I want to know where all our money goes for the hunting license and deer tags I buy. I mean I unfortunately have several public hunting areas in my county and they don't do sh!t to manage them. It's sad really. I mean where does that money go other than to pockets. I don't see them purchasing land, managing property already owned or putting in food plots. The "dove fields" are about it. At least w fish they stock fish. Lol. And really if you aren't centered around Columbus Cincinnati or Cleveland then ur not going to see as much money dumped your way but then all I see around the public hunting and fishing areas is either out of state or big city tags. I really don't care for the way this division is ran and they keep sending me surveys. How many wild quail did i harvest last year and what not. The 10 page responses I send never seem to be responded to and I provide them w 3 ways to contact me. Why not speak to someone about their concerns or ideas w the division? But other than that I'm happy the numbers are down. More room for me and my kids to hunt. I'm ready for an put of state deer lottery too. Sorry for the rant


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

treytd32 said:


> Thanks for the update, last time I looked I thought I read everyone needed a license and just printed the tags. Those numbers could drop even more when I don't buy one anymore


your welcome


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## carp (Oct 31, 2011)

Lundy,

These statastics are hunting and fishing license sales combined, if you got to the divison of wildlife site, the have posted sales results and it looks like not just the last two years, but the last 4 or 5 years that sales have been down. It's not only Ohio but nation wide. I'm still going by my number one reason, lack of hunting ground, due to leasing of property, and over crowded public hunting areas in Ohio. 

Please check the site, for better clarity on numbers, and statistics, when you get a chance.

Carp.


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## ErieRider (Mar 23, 2010)

Think it is a combo of kids wanting to stay home on the computer or Facebook on their phones and not appreciating what nature holds.
Mix in bad economy, rising fuel costs, private land leases, less private lands giving permission with more people fighting over the available lands and overcrowded public lands and you have a recipe for disaster.

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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Carp, never denied they are in decline, I know and knew that they are.

However the numbers you cited in the your first post were not and are not an accurate representation of the actual numbers. That was all I ever questioned.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

i have no idea why the decline, but my guess is, people hunt to see/harvest what they are hunting, people fish to catch fish, if see/harvest/catch numbers go down, i would think interest would go down.:dont-know:


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## sammerguy (Jun 7, 2011)

On the one hand I like this trend, less people out taking up space and hunting/fishing. On the other hand less money for parks and lakes.


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## carp (Oct 31, 2011)

Lundy,
Number were accurate taken from the mouths/books/sales of ODNR statistics!. These numbers were hunting and fishing licenses and permit sales. The state was going off numbers from previous year,2011. Also the amount of license/permit sales from this year, 2012. So actually they are up a little from the decline of 35% from last year. I believe you mis-intrepreted what I was trying to say. But to summerize huntig/fishing license sales are down and the trend is continue to go down. Many reasons thats why the topic is WHY?
God bless,
Carp.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Carp,

You continue to miss the the important part of the numbers you cite. They are from one little window of time that is NOT representative of year to year sales comparisons. You keep saying 35% reduction. No such yearly reduction has taken place, last year or ever.

_Some downs but mostly ups in to-date sales of Ohio fishing/hunting licenses 





This year's up and down temperatures and erratic weather patterns did not appear to have impacted sales of Ohio fishing licenses.


As for hunting license sales, some forms are lagging from what occurred for the same period last year.


To-date sales of the $19 adult resident fishing licenses (which make up the bulk of such tags sold and resulting income) is 637,024 compared to 633,461 for the same period last year.


In all, 648,044 resident fishing licenses were sold in Ohio during 2012.


And while looking at the various other categories of available for-sale fishing licenses only two showed declines, and each of those were of minimal shortfalls involving largely obscure non-resident angling tag categories.


&#8220;Except for March where last year we had a huge number of early fishing license sales, each month in 2013 has seen higher sales,&#8221; said Andy Burke, the Wildlife Division's go-to expert on agency license sales.


Burt said as well that if any poor weather had kept anglers from fishing on Lake Erie the sales of fishing licenses did not take any corresponding hit.


Ditto in regards to Inland Ohio, in spite of a generally wet and dreary late June and July, Burt says.


&#8220;Since then it's been very mild in the way of temperatures with only occasional rain or a thundershower,&#8221; Burt said.


Burt says also that while 2011 was a poor weather year for fishing in Ohio, and subsequently for fishing license sales, both 2012 and 2013 have scored very nice gains.


&#8220;They're pretty much right at or a little above the five-year mean for fishing license sales,&#8221; Burt said.


With the sales of Ohio fishing licenses are now into their seasonal declines their hunting license sale counterparts are (mostly) on the uptick.


Sales of the all-important $19 resident general hunting licenses are so far doing very well, says the statistics provided by Burt.


The to-date sales of these documents as of today (Sept. 9) stood at 93,677. That compares to the identical 2012 to-date period sales of 88,043 documents.


In all last year the Wildlife Division issued 282,350 resident hunting license, the base document which all qualifying Ohio adult hunters and trappers must first possess.


Very good news is being recorded so far with the sale of the $10 youth apprentice hunting licenses, too. So far the to-date sales of these documents is up about 18 percent; an increase from the 2012 to-date issuance of 2,946 licenses to the 2013 to-date issuance of 3,465 licenses.


In all during 2012 the Wildlife Division sold 15,826 apprentice youth hunting licenses.


Up also is the sale of the $15 Wetlands Habitat (state duck) Stamp, required of all resident and non-resident adult duck and goose hunters.


So far the to-date sales of state duck stamps amounts to 12,416. That compares to the similar 2012 to-date figure of 11,419 state duck stamps. 


In all during 2012, the Wildlife Division sold 21,435 state duck stamps.


Perhaps sales of these duck stamps are up because of the liberalization of duck- and goose-hunting seasons and bag limits in effect for 2013. Whatever the reason, the Wildlife Division is happy to take the waterfowlers' dollars.


Now comes the downside in regards to hunting document sales.


Off are the to-date sales of both resident and non-resident fall turkey tags, each costing $24. 


In looking over the sales of fall turkey tags to Ohio resident the to-date number is 559 and compared to the 2012 to-date figure of 869. That is a drop of nearly 36 percent.


In all during 2012 the Wildlife Division sold 5,190 fall turkey-hunting tags. Obviously there is more than enough wiggle room on the calender before the Oct. 14 start of Ohio's fall turkey-hunting season.


Not to be an alarmist by any stretch, Burt does note that the sale of Ohio deer-hunting tags is off when compared to the same 2012 to-date period.


Broken done and using the figures supplied today (Sept. 9) by the Wildlife Division, resident adult Ohio hunters have thus far bought 15,028 either-sex tags, each costing $24.


During the same 2012 to-date period resident deer hunters bought 17,675 either-sex tags. That's a drop of 16 percent.


Purchases of either-sex deer tags by adult non-residents has likewise slackened; off 26 percent.


In all, during 2012 the Wildlife Division sold 288,980 either-sex tags to resident adult deer hunters and 44,982 either sex tags to non-resident adult deer hunters.


Of course it is still early in the deer license sales ballgame, Burt quickly notes, with the start of the statewide archery deer-hunting season not until Sept. 28.


Sales of the $15 adult antlerless-only tags are down, too, Burt says.


His Wildlife Division-supplied to-date figures indicate that Ohio resident adult deer hunters have purchased 7,015 antlerless only tags while non-resident adult deer hunters have purchased only 829 antlerless-only permits.


The respective 2012 to-date figures were 8,754 and 1,157 antlerless-only tags.


Note that during all of 2012 the Wildlife Division sold 298,880 either-sex tags to Ohio adult resident deer hunters; 44,942 either-sex tags to non-resident adult deer hunters; 86,052 antlerless-only permits to Ohio adult resident deer hunters; and 14,049 antlerless-only permits to non-resident dadult eer hunters.


Perhaps one of the more curious declines is seen in the sales of shooting range permits.


Given the boom in sales of firearms and ammunition one might naturally assume purchasers would be eager to practice on a shooting range somewhere. Yet based on the sales of the Wildlife Division's annual and daily shooting range permits such may not be the case.


So far 9,441 annual shooting range permits have been sold and compared to the same 2012 to-date figure of 9,729. In both cases the cost for such a permit is $24.


The total number of annual shooting range permits for 2012 was 10,720 by-the-way.


Meanwhile, sales of the Wildlife Division's $5 daily range permits are also off.


The 2012 to-date sale of these one-time range permits was 20,083 while this year's to-date figure is 18,992.


In all during 2012 the Wildlife Division sold 38,756 one-day shooting range permits.


&#8220;The year-to-date sales of hunting licenses is thus far up, and which is a good thing,&#8221; Burt says.


Even so, Burt says he is not ready to draw any conclusions, given the earliness of the hunting season hour.


&#8220;I'm expecting sales to greatly increase as the archery deer-hunting season opens and before the early antlerless-only muzzle-loading season Oct. 12 and 13,&#8221; Burt said. &#8220;And let's wait until Thanksgiving to see if the sales are still below those of last year.&#8221;


What may surprise a lot of Ohio sportsmen is the depth and breadth of documents the Wildlife Division sells; and beyond the standard hunting, trapping and fishing permits, of which there exists a rather lengthy tally.


We have, for instance, the sale of duplicate licenses (up 31.2 percent to-date this year, and which is silly since sportsmen can simply photo-copy their documents and put them in a safe place); donations to the Wildlife Fund, the Habitat Fund, and the Diversity and Endangered Fund (up 26.46 percent, up 25.2 percent, and up 20.82 percent, respectively); Legacy Stamp sales (up 25.63 percent); Gift Certificates (down 44,63 percent but based on some really tiny numbers anyway), and no fewer than six categories of Wild Ohio subscription programs. 


Okay so the very rock-bottom of the bottommost line is that to-date the Wildlife Division has collected a total of $20,279,252.25.


For the identical to-date 2012 period that figure was $19,937,324.


In all during 2012 the Wildlife Division earned $39,718,741.50.


Consequently, no matter how one slices the pie, Ohio's hunters, anglers and trappers continue to back with their wallets sound fish, game and non-game management and related fish and wildlife law-enforcement programs._


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## carp (Oct 31, 2011)

Lundy,

Please take a look at these statstics, from 17 states study, Ohio is included in this study.

http://www.nssf.org/PDF/HuntingLicTrends-NatlRpt.pdf


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Carp,

I read the report and your point is?

Of course the trend has been a reduction in participation, particuarally hunting. That has been the trend for 50 years. Our society has changed over that time.

What I took and still take exception to is your original post in this thread as below;

*I know there are lots of opinions on this issue,,, but hunting/fishing license sales are down significantly again according to ODW.

35% last year

early results say at least 25% this year*

There is no basis of fact in those numbers, not even remotely close on a yearly comparison.

Just do the simple math, a 35% reduction in one year leaves on 65% of the hunters and fishermen. A further 25% reduction this year leaves only 48.75% of the hunters and fisherman you had a mere two years ago. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT NUMBER? These are the numbers you are asking me and others to believe.

The numbers you cite are so far out in left field that they are silly. The are NOT real. They are NOT supported by actual sales and participation in Ohio. They are NOT supported by harvest data, They are supported by nothing.

I promise I am done, you believe anything you want.


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## fakebait (Jun 18, 2006)

I bought my adult residency license. But refuse to buy another deer permit after they changed the bonus weekend. Not everyone can get time off during the opening week and I will not spend that money for a two day hunt with every deer on high alert. They can live without my money. The cost of everything to enjoy the outdoor sports has gone out of sight. Even though I work a solid forty plus I just do not have the extra for other things. Ammo is high, gas is high, new vehicles are just ridiculous in price and do not even come with a bathroom for their prices. Food keeps climbing as well as most everything else. Wages have not kept up even if your lucky to find some work. I say most people are just feeling the pinch of just surviving.


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## Bonemann (Jan 28, 2008)

Lundy said:


> The license has expired at the end of February since the 70's for sure, maybe even prior to that.
> 
> If like you say the one year from purchase is a concern and a hunter buys a license in Nov to slug hunt as you suggest, his license would expire right before the next slug season. Yearly out of pocket expense is exactly the same no matter when you purchase your license. Can you cite an example where someone is paying more with a end of Feb expiration versus a year from purchase?
> 
> All of the defined limited hunting seasons close by the last day of February, same date the license expires. There is no "season" in March except crows. Maybe you like to eat crow, not really sure.


Hunting licenses used to expire Aug.31st until a few years back when they put them in line with the fishing licenses and had both expire at the end of Feb.

Crow is not the only hunting after March 1st. Coyote and ground hog hunting is enjoyed by some also. Of course new license is needed.

I remember when the change took place because I felt cheated at that time. They took 6 months of my license away. That year it went from Sept.1st to Feb.28th.


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Hats how I remember it boneman.

I buy less tags because I hunt less and harvest less in Ohio and that is strictly an access issue.

But it seems that there is a debate in the actual reduction in license sales.


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