# another law enforcement question on a dui



## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

if you get pulled over for a possible dui or ovi what happens if i were to refuse to take the field sobriety test? i dont drink ,just something i thaught about. why incriminate yourself by failing to recite your abc 's backwards ,or balance on 1 foot and touch your nose at the same time? dont think i could do either sober?


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

You automatically get put into custody and lose your license for a year.


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## InlandKid (Aug 29, 2006)

we don't use those test anymore. just the one where you walk toe to toe, count on your fingers touching your thumb, and stand on one foot and count. but ez is correct, you'll get hooked and booked, then be given a breathalizer at the station and if you refuse to blow, lose your lic for a year plus all the nice fines that come with it.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

BTW that 1 yr lose of license is AUTOMATIC just for refusing...`refuse` to your heart`s content. My friend 2 yrs ago refused after an accident, about 2 hrs later agreed and blew nothing, 0.0 (he wasn`t drinking ) and STILL had his license REVOKED for 365 days PLUS paid court costs and fines...just do it. BTW, if it`s a felony accident with injuries or death a judge can ORDER you to have 1 taken against your will and your `refusal` STILL counts against you. It`s in the `fine print` when you willingly apply for your license...


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## Atwood (Sep 6, 2005)

Guilty until proven innocent, thats the way it works these days. The Constitution has been reduced to a useless piece of paper. They install thousands of new laws every year but take none off the books, it won't stop until they can get in everyones pocket.


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## Wmbuckeye557 (Apr 14, 2012)

Not really. In the state of Ohio, when you sign your license, you basically say I won't drink and drive. You also say that you will submit to testing for ovi. If you don't your license will be suspended pending administrative hearing which must happen with in 5 days of the issuing of a citation/suspension. In this hearing the decision will be made on the suspension. 

This really shouldn't be an issue for anyone because there is no reason for anyone to drink and drive. I think it should be a felony like it is in Canada. To many lawmakers drink and drive so it never will be!


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

ezbite said:


> You automatically get put into custody and lose your license for a year.


This is incorrect. If you refuse to consent to a .BAC test of breath, blood or urine your license will be suspended for 1 year. The FST's are used to build more evidence for the case.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

its absolutely true.

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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Sharp Charge said:


> This is incorrect. If you refuse to consent to a .BAC test of breath, blood or urine your license will be suspended for 1 year. The FST's are used to build more evidence for the case.


 I'm confused, what's incorrect about my reply?


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

ezbite said:


> I'm confused, what's incorrect about my reply?


The question was what would happen if you refuse to do the field sobriety tests, which is absolutely nothing. You said you would lose you license for a year. An ALS suspension is only administered if you refuse to provide breath, blood or urine.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

> it should be a felony like it is in Canada


Not sure where I read this, maybe here on OGF, but apparently an OVI in the US makes you a felon in Canadian eyes, and felons are refused entry into Canada - correct?


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Matulemj said:


> The question was what would happen if you refuse to do the field sobriety tests, which is absolutely nothing. You said you would lose you license for a year. An ALS suspension is only administered if you refuse to provide breath, blood or urine.


really? so then the officer would just let you go?? 

i stand by what i said. he or she will detain you.

and in the end you will lose your license if you continue to refuse to cooperate.this is how i should of worded my first reply.


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

> an OVI in the US makes you a felon in Canadian eyes, and felons are refused entry into Canada


You are absolutely correct. You need to wait five years after your OVI to get let back into Canada. Learned this the hard way many years ago.


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## F1504X4 (Mar 23, 2008)

FOSR said:


> Not sure where I read this, maybe here on OGF, but apparently an OVI in the US makes you a felon in Canadian eyes, and felons are refused entry into Canada - correct?


If you have 1 DUI in the states you can be denied entry into Canada but you can also go through a waiver process to be able to go. Multiples DUIs are another story. 









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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

ezbite said:


> really? so then the officer would just let you go??
> 
> i stand by what i said. he or she will detain you.
> 
> and in the end you will lose your license if you continue to refuse to cooperate.this is how i should of worded my first reply.


I never said you wouldn't be detained. But just refusing to perform FST's won't warrant the suspension. If he believes you're under the influence and you refuse the FST's, you'll most likely be taken to the station and asked to provide a chemical sample. Refuse that and kiss your license good bye. 

A lot of departments have a portable breathalyzer in cars which they may use in the field to initially help determine what your BAC is, but this is just a preliminary device and won't hold in court. If you blow 00 though, they may opt not to take you for further testing, depends how the situation is developing. The intoxilyzer at the station (or mobile OVI testing van that some places have) is the standard. 

I've done the sober FST's before, bringing my drunk Squids back to the ship. My truck stunk so bad of booze going through the front gate they couldn't tell who was sober. No big deal. I won't do them again though. I rarely drink and don't drink and drive (1 dui could cost me my career) and I'm usually ccw. If it's brought up during the course of a stop, I'll politely decline and offer to blow into the pipe.


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## James F (Jul 2, 2005)

You can refuse all you want!Driving is a privilege and the judge will tell you just that. I know He told this to every one in his court room.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

Why do u always hear the best thing to do is refuse then?..what if u get a good attorney and get it knocked down to reckless operation or something like that or possibly even get it thrown out of court?..is your license still suspended for a year?..I know they take your license immediately once you refuse...but its not always for a year...I've heard straight from attorney's mouth's...refuse everything...by doing that they essentially have less on you...unless of course you're completely obliterated driving...then it would be a different story...


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## bcnulater (May 7, 2007)

A side note, you can also get an OVI even if you blow under the limit.
I believe under certain circumstances that even if you blow like a .04 you can be charged.


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

bcnulater said:


> A side note, you can also get an OVI even if you blow under the limit.
> I believe under certain circumstances that even if you blow like a .04 you can be charged.


Maybe if you are underage, or the police believe you are under the influence of narcotics. 

Mr. A


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## ErieRider (Mar 23, 2010)

Mr. A said:


> Maybe if you are underage, or the police believe you are under the influence of narcotics.
> 
> Mr. A


You can still get an ovi if under the limit. There is a charge essentially for the observations of the officer. Then the blood breath of urine charge.
Since alcohol affects each person differently, you could possibly be impaired enough to warrant a charge on observation. This would weigh heavily on the articulation of the officer in his report.
Don't drink and drive.... save yourself the minimum 3 grand or so in trying to beat the charge.
I need my license for work. If I have even one drink my wife does not drink and drives home. Vice versa if she has a drink. Just not worth even putting yourself in that position

I would highly recommend that if you want to know what occurs during an ovi arrest and the consequences Google Ohio BMV form 2255. 
Either way in the process you are losing your license. The 2255 allows for an als suspension which is a suspension prior to conviction, which may or may not be reversed with the 5 day rule to see the judge. The length of the initial suspension depends on if you give a sample or not.

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## Wmbuckeye557 (Apr 14, 2012)

Rider is dead on, just don't do it!


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Atwood said:


> Guilty until proven innocent, thats the way it works these days. The Constitution has been reduced to a useless piece of paper. They install thousands of new laws every year but take none off the books, it won't stop until they can get in everyones pocket.


If you drink and drive and endanger me and my family you have no rights in my opinion.

If you are sober then you have no reason to fear the process.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

Shad Rap said:


> Why do u always hear the best thing to do is refuse then?..what if u get a good attorney and get it knocked down to reckless operation or something like that or possibly even get it thrown out of court?..is your license still suspended for a year?..I know they take your license immediately once you refuse...but its not always for a year...I've heard straight from attorney's mouth's...refuse everything...by doing that they essentially have less on you...unless of course you're completely obliterated driving...then it would be a different story...


That's bad sea lawyering, I've also had LEO friends say the same. What it comes down to is the judge. A friend of mine was popped near Columbus, refused initially, then submitted. He blew under .04 and eventually the case was completely dismissed. The judge however still imposed the 12 month license suspension and wouldn't grant work privileges either. That's their right and my friend's lawyer couldn't convince him otherwise. 

I had another friend here near Cleveland get popped. She was .12 and was able to get it knocked to a lesser charge and got her license back 90 days after the initial stop. She had work and child privileges in the mean time though.

If you roll the dice, don't be surprised if it doesn't roll in your favor. It's best to not risk it.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

Mr. A said:


> Maybe if you are underage, or the police believe you are under the influence of narcotics.
> 
> Mr. A


Ohio's .08 is a "Per Se" limit. They have to cap it somewhere, but you can certainly get an OVI under the 4511.19(A)1(a) section of the ORC which specifies an officer's observations (field sobriety, marked lane violations, odor of alcohol, etc) blowing below a .08. For example, a person who has not drank in 9 years and they have 3 beers on an empty stomach may blow under a .08, but they would still be under the influence.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Personally i always do better being truthful and straight with them. Just the way i was brought up. If i do a crime and know it im honest and accept the responsibility. I don't drink, or do drugs. But some times i fail to pay attention to speed. Not real high but high enough to be charged. And have been released with a smile and a warning in places others call them names. Been with buddies who had to have the last word, or less then polite and lying. Drove about 10 of their cars home after they were arrested. The police are their for your protection, but their people too. Want to play hard ball with them you'll most like loose. But im the same way with people. You usually get your own reflection back at you.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

ezbite said:


> really? so then the officer would just let you go??
> 
> i stand by what i said. he or she will detain you.
> 
> and in the end you will lose your license if you continue to refuse to cooperate.this is how i should of worded my first reply.


But that's not what you said. Your original statement was false. There are circumstances where somebody utilizing their rights given by the justice system by refusing a field sobriety test won't get detained. Source: I'm a LEO.


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## Wmbuckeye557 (Apr 14, 2012)

I am the sober driver on most occasions, I have been pulled over with a car full of drunks. The officer had me get out of the car and he checked my eyes. No problems. He said have a nice day and thanks for driving. I felt everything was reasonable. 


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Curious I didn't believe there was either. Sounder what circumstance can you refuse in Ohio and not loose your license or get detained?





Matulemj said:


> But that's not what you said. Your original statement was false. There are circumstances where somebody utilizing their rights given by the justice system by refusing a field sobriety test won't get detained. Source: I'm a LEO.


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## HawgHunter (Apr 13, 2004)

I believe he is talking about refusing the field sobriety tests, if you refuse and the officers cannot generate enough probable cause without them to detain you, then they have no choice but to release you. Refusing the breathalyzer is what generates an automatic suspension.

Scott


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

viper1 said:


> Curious I didn't believe there was either. Sounder what circumstance can you refuse in Ohio and not loose your license or get detained?


For instance, I have stopped people on equipment violations and noticed a slight odor of alcohol. They didn't have slurred speech or other obvious indications that they were intoxicated, but the smell of alcohol yields some reasonable suspicion. When I got them out of the vehicle and asked if they would be willing to preform some field sobriety tests and they say something like "I don't want to, I've heard negative things about them, etc." and I have not observed any other indications of intoxication, I ask them to park their vehicle and get a cab, or they can ride in the backseat of my cruiser to the police station. 

If you are obviously intoxicated, you made a moving violation (speed, marked lanes, etc.), you smell like booze and you refuse to preform a field sobriety, then you are getting arrested. That's the gamble you take.

It's pretty simple, just don't drink and drive.


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

Matulemj, since you are currently an officer I was hoping you could clear something up for me. Not sure who posted it but I thought they were an officer as well. They posted something about not using all the old tests during FST's. Granted I have not given an FST in over a decade but when they listed a few of them they did not list the HGN Test (pen test), are police still using that where you work?

Mr. A


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

Mr. A said:


> Matulemj, since you are currently an officer I was hoping you could clear something up for me. Not sure who posted it but I thought they were an officer as well. They posted something about not using all the old tests during FST's. Granted I have not given an FST in over a decade but when they listed a few of them they did not list the HGN Test (pen test), are police still using that where you work?
> 
> Mr. A


Yes, HGN tests are still used.

Check the right and left eye for:

-Distinct and sustained nystagmus at maximum deviation
-Onset prior to 45 degrees
-Lack of smooth pursuit

For a total of 6 clues of intoxication

Vertical is used to detect drugs, but is not a part of the standard HGN tests for court purposes.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Shad Rap said:


> Why do u always hear the best thing to do is refuse then?..what if u get a good attorney and get it knocked down to reckless operation or something like that or possibly even get it thrown out of court?..is your license still suspended for a year?..I know they take your license immediately once you refuse...but its not always for a year...I've heard straight from attorney's mouth's...refuse everything...by doing that they essentially have less on you...unless of course you're completely obliterated driving...then it would be a different story...


your caught red handed and you are stalling in hopes that your bac drops before you blow and that might lessen the charge? just a guess.

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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

Matulemj said:


> Yes, HGN tests are still used.
> 
> Check the right and left eye for:
> 
> ...


I was hoping that was the case. Thanks for letting me know. They use that test where I li e to. Considering it's accuracy I was really surprised when I'd heard it may not be used elsewhere. I'm sure the person just forgot to mention it now that I think about it.

Mr. A


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

ostbucks98 said:


> your caught red handed and you are stalling in hopes that your bac drops before you blow and that might lessen the charge? just a guess.
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


If I recall, the chemical test has to be administered within 2 hours from the time you were detained. If you're ripped, it's not going to drop that much. I think it's .01 per hour or something like that. But if you still have alcohol in your gut, it still needs to metabolize which could raise the BAC level. 

Just aint worth it.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Matulemj said:


> But that's not what you said. Your original statement was false. There are circumstances where somebody utilizing their rights given by the justice system by refusing a field sobriety test won't get detained. Source: I'm a LEO.


Thanks for setting me straight and I couldn't care less what you are..


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

Frog calls???... Jk ez, I like "calling frogs" also..


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

ezbite said:


> Thanks for setting me straight and I couldn't care less what you are..


Cool story. You mad, bro?


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

Sharp Charge said:


> If I recall, the chemical test has to be administered within 2 hours from the time you were detained. If you're ripped, it's not going to drop that much. I think it's .01 per hour or something like that. But if you still have alcohol in your gut, it still needs to metabolize which could raise the BAC level.
> 
> Just aint worth it.


Correct, also, urine and blood is 3 hours.


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## HOUSE (Apr 29, 2010)

Matulemj said:


> ... For example, a person who has not drank in 9 years and they have 3 beers on an empty stomach may blow under a .08, but they would still be under the influence.


That's how I feel every time I go out to eat. I use the "one beer per hour" rule and feel completely sober after 3 beers which "should" be legal on a breathalyzer...but I always fear I might fail a field test because I'm pretty uncoordinated. What's your best advice for what to say to the officer if I get pulled over to avoid having to get out of my car and play the silly field test games?


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## rangerpig250 (Apr 10, 2011)

HOUSE said:


> That's how I feel every time I go out to eat. I use the "one beer per hour" rule and feel completely sober after 3 beers which "should" be legal on a breathalyzer...but I always fear I might fail a field test because I'm pretty uncoordinated. What's your best advice for what to say to the officer if I get pulled over to avoid having to get out of my car and play the silly field test games?


Try honesty !!!! That works best !! If your sober, no need to lie about what you had . A liar is easy to spot and is a quick way to get pulled out! When a person tells me they had 3 beers while out to dinner , and they look at me with a straight face when they say it, I'm inclined to believe them ! When they won't look at me , are chomping gum at 100mph, evasive, and generally acting nervous , those are good indicators that they had more than they say .


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

rangerpig250 said:


> When they won't look at me , are chomping gum at 100mph, evasive, and generally acting nervous .


That's how House is all the time!


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

HOUSE said:


> That's how I feel every time I go out to eat. I use the "one beer per hour" rule and feel completely sober after 3 beers which "should" be legal on a breathalyzer...but I always fear I might fail a field test because I'm pretty uncoordinated. What's your best advice for what to say to the officer if I get pulled over to avoid having to get out of my car and play the silly field test games?


Just because an 84 oz. jug of Pabst comes in one container that doesn't mean it counts as one beer. The Blue Oyster is very generous with their pilsner.


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

rangerpig250 said:


> Try honesty !!!! That works best !! If your sober, no need to lie about what you had . A liar is easy to spot and is a quick way to get pulled out! When a person tells me they had 3 beers while out to dinner , and they look at me with a straight face when they say it, I'm inclined to believe them ! When they won't look at me , are chomping gum at 100mph, evasive, and generally acting nervous , those are good indicators that they had more than they say .


I understand where you are coming from on this, but let me bring up two points when it comes to honesty with officers. First, you are giving the state evidence with your honesty. If you aren't drunk (under .08) and run into an overzealous cop, that just gives him hard proof you were drinking. Secondly, cops lie like crazy. I understand it's not illegal for them to lie. Of course, the lies are "justified" by trying to "get the bad guys". Basically, the ends justify the means- as some really smart guy once said. If all cops were good people, honesty would work like a charm. Again, disclaimer: I am all for police officers, but there are a certain percentage that disregard the Constitution and take advantage of the power given to them. If I got pulled over in that situation, I probably would be honest, just shedding a little light on the opposite scenario.


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## rangerpig250 (Apr 10, 2011)

GarrettMyers said:


> I understand where you are coming from on this, but let me bring up two points when it comes to honesty with officers. First, you are giving the state evidence with your honesty. If you aren't drunk (under .08) and run into an overzealous cop, that just gives him hard proof you were drinking. Secondly, cops lie like crazy. I understand it's not illegal for them to lie. Of course, the lies are "justified" by trying to "get the bad guys". Basically, the ends justify the means- as some really smart guy once said. If all cops were good people, honesty would work like a charm. Again, disclaimer: I am all for police officers, but there are a certain percentage that disregard the Constitution and take advantage of the power given to them. If I got pulled over in that situation, I probably would be honest, just shedding a little light on the opposite scenario.


My point was being made off his statement of having 3 beers! If you have only had 3 over the course of 3 hrs , be straight forward about that , you are not over the per se limit ! If you say you had none , or just one , you may act nervous in your lie.. If your completely sober , you don't need to lie, and you don't need to worry about ( giving the state evidence ).... I guess there are some that lie , I guess the overall point to my , and the majority of the posts is that keep it down to a couple if you must drive , if you do that, you'll be fine and there will be no need to lie!!


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## HOUSE (Apr 29, 2010)

co-angler said:


> That's how House is all the time!


Guilty as charged!

I think what he was _really _saying, is that I should stare the officer down, smack my gum slowly, and not act nervous when tell him I've been drinking. Got it! I'll let you guys know how it goes


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Well if your drinking he should lock you up if your driving. Designated drivers prevent you getting tickets ,jail or loosing license. Pretty simple and common sense. I love how these threads turn into how bad the police are when they do their job. And how to avoid instead of just not committing the crime. LOL!


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

viper1 said:


> Well if your drinking he should lock you up if your driving. Designated drivers prevent you getting tickets ,jail or loosing license. Pretty simple and common sense. I love how these threads turn into how bad the police are when they do their job. And how to avoid instead of just not committing the crime. LOL!


I'm guessing you didn't actually read my post. I was talking about what is considered legal, under .08 BAC. We can have a discussion without just filing it under me talking about "how bad the police are". Most cops are decent guys, some aren't. If you are breaking the law, you deserve to get in trouble in my opinion. If you are under .08 BAC, that does not guarantee you will get charged with a DWI. For that reason, it may not be smart to admit you have been drinking. I don't drink more than a beer or two and drive, so I'm not looking to break the law- just trying to have an intelligent discussion.


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

rangerpig250 said:


> My point was being made off his statement of having 3 beers! If you have only had 3 over the course of 3 hrs , be straight forward about that , you are not over the per se limit ! If you say you had none , or just one , you may act nervous in your lie.. If your completely sober , you don't need to lie, and you don't need to worry about ( giving the state evidence ).... I guess there are some that lie , I guess the overall point to my , and the majority of the posts is that keep it down to a couple if you must drive , if you do that, you'll be fine and there will be no need to lie!!


You seem like a good dude, so I can understand why you feel that way. I was talking about being under the legal limit but still having alcohol on your breath.


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## Runuv (May 23, 2008)

U are presumed under the influence at .05 can u get arrested for .05 yes. Some lawyers tell u to take the test, other tell u don't. I do believe most tell u to take the test now. Truefully most cops don't care if u take the BAC test or not observation of the person is just as important. I have observed OSP give the gaze test and tell how much or how little alcohol a subject has in his system. Just by watching the eyes.


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

viper1 said:


> Well if your drinking he should lock you up if your driving. Designated drivers prevent you getting tickets ,jail or loosing license. Pretty simple and common sense. I love how these threads turn into how bad the police are when they do their job. And how to avoid instead of just not committing the crime. LOL!


I love how these threads turn into someone's reply which is amusing because they only chose to read some or part of some or part of the thread.
Designating oneself to proper research of said posts prevents one from quoted in a less then impressive light.
Pretty simple and common sense really.

Thanks for the chuckle!

PS- I'm with you GarrettMeyers.


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## firelands (Oct 5, 2006)

I'll admit I did some pretty crazy things when I was younger with alcohol. Older and wiser now! Rarely even drink one beer when I'm out.

Got hit by a drunk driver up by Clyde about 20 years ago. He blew a .24, didn't have a license, didn't have permission to drive the vehicle he was driving, no insurance, had at least 3 other OVI that I could find. Was literally so drunk he couldn't stand up!

He got a 90 day jail sentence with 60 of that suspended! Got like a $300.00 fine. What a JOKE! This wasn't some guy who went out on a Fri. night and had one to many! This guy was a habitual! The law should have used any means to keep him off the road! FOREVER! Letting him back on the road was like turning some idiot loose in a mall with a loaded weapon! ( Sorry if that parallel offends anybody but it's the way I feel!)


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## spikeg79 (Jun 11, 2012)

firelands said:


> He got a 90 day jail sentence with 60 of that suspended! Got like a $300.00 fine. What a JOKE! This wasn't some guy who went out on a Fri. night and had one to many! This guy was a habitual! The law should have used any means to keep him off the road! FOREVER! Letting him back on the road was like turning some idiot loose in a mall with a loaded weapon! ( Sorry if that parallel offends anybody but it's the way I feel!)


Not surprising one bit. This one couple that live in the apt. building across the street from us are alcoholics, every day they come home with a 12-24pack. Both have been arrested several times for dui, wrecked multiple cars, he's on his 4th car. 

You want to know what's really scary. A guy my dad went to school with drives Semi's and he's a major alcoholic. He's also had several dui's yet they gave him a CDL license  .


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## Had a Bite (Apr 15, 2012)

It is my understanding that if you have a CDL your limit is not .08 it is .04. However, for anywhere between $2000-$5,000 your lawyer will get it dropped to wreckless-opp most of the time. I think if you are driving a commercial vehicle limit is even lower. I'm pretty sure this is accurate but you never know, I'm not a crook so I don't write the laws. 

Best thing is just to not drink and drive. I know everyone says it but no one listens. Why is that? I drink, don't drive, not sure what is so hard about that? I think that part of the problem is a lack of fear from being locked up. They live better than a lot of honest people. Why is it a right to have cable TV in jail? Whatever happened to making big rocks into little rocks? To say the least the system is flawed.


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## Lawman60 (May 17, 2010)

ezbite said:


> really? so then the officer would just let you go??
> 
> i stand by what i said. he or she will detain you.
> 
> and in the end you will lose your license if you continue to refuse to cooperate.this is how i should of worded my first reply.


EZ, In Ohio you may ask to skip the FST and ask for a breath or blood test instead. There are many reasons one may not be able to pass a FST without having had a drop to drink or any other substance that would impair their driving. There are many thousands of Ohio driver with handicaps that would impair their ability to pass a FST. But you're right that if you refuse to comply with at least one of these methods, you're cuffed on the spot. My wife had a stroke during the birth of her son. If you should meet her, you would most likely never notice the effects left by the stroke, however, she would not be able to pass a FST for sure! As a mater of fact, I was once called while on the job and asked to report to the scene of a TC, because my wife was involved and the officer thought she was driving impaired. After arriving and explaining to the officer her condition, she was given a breath test instead. She still was at fault in the accident, but she was not driving under the influence. She's just a bad driver...lol (no one was injured)
But you're right in the fact that you MUST comply with one or the other type of test, and outright refusal is a one way ride behind the cage.


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

Man, Had a Bite you hit the nail, or should I say rock, right on the head and I loved the comment about not writing the laws, dead on once again!


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## Had a Bite (Apr 15, 2012)

Thank you! I know this is going off topic but why do prisoners have so many rights? Why do they live so good for obviously doing something wrong in the first place? Why shouldn't jail and prison be something that is feared? A place that makes people think, man I shouldn't do this or they will throw me in jail. I get it, they can't be beaten every day, (although many of them should be) but why so comfortable. Since when is taking cable away cruel and unusual. Hard labor won't kill them. Were already paying what 30,000- 40,000 per year for them to have a place to stay.


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## brucey42085 (Jun 4, 2011)

Had a Bite said:


> Thank you! I know this is going off topic but why do prisoners have so many rights? Why do they live so good for obviously doing something wrong in the first place? Why shouldn't jail and prison be something that is feared? A place that makes people think, man I shouldn't do this or they will throw me in jail. I get it, they can't be beaten every day, (although many of them should be) but why so comfortable. Since when is taking cable away cruel and unusual. Hard labor won't kill them. Were already paying what 30,000- 40,000 per year for them to have a place to stay.


this is something only those who havent ever been to prison assert. i could elaborate if youd like. also, in ohio, they dont have cable in the prison system. its, if i remember correctly, 8 channels.


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## monte39 (Nov 24, 2011)

bcnulater said:


> A side note, you can also get an OVI even if you blow under the limit.
> I believe under certain circumstances that even if you blow like a .04 you can be charged.


I did in my young and dumb years blew under the legal limit but I'll admit I was an ass to the cop, got a dui, but I have to say Cops lie lol


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

littering annnnnnnd.... ?


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

You are freaking out..... maaaan


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## Lawman60 (May 17, 2010)

Had a Bite said:


> Thank you! I know this is going off topic but why do prisoners have so many rights? Why do they live so good for obviously doing something wrong in the first place? Why shouldn't jail and prison be something that is feared? A place that makes people think, man I shouldn't do this or they will throw me in jail. I get it, they can't be beaten every day, (although many of them should be) but why so comfortable. Since when is taking cable away cruel and unusual. Hard labor won't kill them. Were already paying what 30,000- 40,000 per year for them to have a place to stay.



I'm going to play devils advocate here for an answer to this question. I worked as a correction officer for a number of year, and I can still remember my first day. I saw these convicts walking around, laughing, playing basketball, lifting free weights, etc. Then I soon find out that they have TVs in their cells, radios, board games, books, and food from the commissary. It was nothing like I had seen in the movies or on TV. The inmates also had access to a chapel, a huge gym, library with all kinds of legal books, and they were able to attend not only school classes, but college as well! All at the cost of Ohio tax payers. Pretty crazy, right? 
But a year later I had a whole new prospective. The first thing is that after I worked my shift, I got to go home to my family, my friends, my car, boat, ATV, fishing trips, holding my children, and with countless freedoms that we all would take for granted. The inmates, on the other hand, had only a cell to go to at the end of the day. Every one of them had job assignments ranging from working in the kitchen, to sweeping and mopping the cell blocks. I had the freedom to make love to my wife, their options were pretty limited as far as that goes. They live each day just like the day before. They are told when and what to do, when to get up, and when to go to bed. So, if you think about it, do they really have it so good in there? Some of them would never again see the outside world. Some were young men that would be old men when and if they ever did get released. They are also subject to violence, extortion, robbery of their few personal items, rape, and murder. So now, if you see this through a corrections officers perspective, the officers are there to keep order as well as they can, protect the weak, protect each other and all staff members, stop or prevent the commission of criminal activity, keep track of all the inmates under their charge at all times, and all this with out weapons beyond pepper spray or a baton, and out numbered at ratios as high as 100 to 1. 
Like I said, at first I though it was crazy to let these felons have the privileges that they have. But after a while, I realized that giving them something to do to pass the endless time, helps to keep them from hurting me or my coworkers. There were inmates that worked out so much that they looked like the incredible hulk! But those were more easy inmates to manage. Allowing them an outlet from the many pressures of being incarcerated and even their anger issues, keeps them from killing me! 
And really the fact is they are sent to prison (AS PUNISHMENT, not FOR PUNISHMENT[.) 
Another thing is that Ohio still uses the name (Department of Rehabilitation and Corrections.) Most other states have remover the word "rehabilitation" all together. This brings up my final point. Some of these people will one day be released back out to live among you and me. It would be nice to think that some of these people have been able to change their lives, and cleaned up their act. 
It's a subject of great debate. Like I said in the first line of this post, I'm playing devils advocate, but I can see both sides of the coin.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

Are you guys seriously about to do this right meow?


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## rangerpig250 (Apr 10, 2011)

All us cops meow are liars meow !


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

Lawman60 said:


> I'm going to play devils advocate here for an answer to this question. I worked as a correction officer for a number of year, and I can still remember my first day. I saw these convicts walking around, laughing, playing basketball, lifting free weights, etc. Then I soon find out that they have TVs in their cells, radios, board games, books, and food from the commissary. It was nothing like I had seen in the movies or on TV. The inmates also had access to a chapel, a huge gym, library with all kinds of legal books, and they were able to attend not only school classes, but college as well! All at the cost of Ohio tax payers. Pretty crazy, right?
> But a year later I had a whole new prospective. The first thing is that after I worked my shift, I got to go home to my family, my friends, my car, boat, ATV, fishing trips, holding my children, and with countless freedoms that we all would take for granted. The inmates, on the other hand, had only a cell to go to at the end of the day. Every one of them had job assignments ranging from working in the kitchen, to sweeping and mopping the cell blocks. I had the freedom to make love to my wife, their options were pretty limited as far as that goes. They live each day just like the day before. They are told when and what to do, when to get up, and when to go to bed. So, if you think about it, do they really have it so good in there? Some of them would never again see the outside world. Some were young men that would be old men when and if they ever did get released. They are also subject to violence, extortion, robbery of their few personal items, rape, and murder. So now, if you see this through a corrections officers perspective, the officers are there to keep order as well as they can, protect the weak, protect each other and all staff members, stop or prevent the commission of criminal activity, keep track of all the inmates under their charge at all times, and all this with out weapons beyond pepper spray or a baton, and out numbered at ratios as high as 100 to 1.
> Like I said, at first I though it was crazy to let these felons have the privileges that they have. But after a while, I realized that giving them something to do to pass the endless time, helps to keep them from hurting me or my coworkers. There were inmates that worked out so much that they looked like the incredible hulk! But those were more easy inmates to manage. Allowing them an outlet from the many pressures of being incarcerated and even their anger issues, keeps them from killing me!
> And really the fact is they are sent to prison (AS PUNISHMENT, not FOR PUNISHMENT[.)
> ...


I worked as a CO here in Ohio for a few years as well. I cannot disagree with any of the above statement. I agree 100%.

Also, the only thing that I would add is that when someone goes to prison, they still have a certain amount of rights under the law. Agree or disagree that is a fact. From the right to practice religion to having access to TV for News, weather, and educational programs at the least. All of those rights are represented by specific criteria included in the American Correctional Associations (ACA) certification program. If you miss even on of those the entire institution fail. If you lose accreditation you lose federal funding and most likely will be shut down. It is in the governing laws for any state of Ohio correctional institution that they must be accredited or face closure.

I have talked to more inmates and felons than most people ever see, in my career, and they all say they would rather do a year in prison than 6 months in jail. Why? Because jails and other county lockups have no reason to be accredited.

And for those that have never lived in or worked at a prison make no mistakes about who "runs" the prisons on the inside. It ain't the administration or CO's that's for sure....

Mr. A


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