# Seeking input re: after dam removals



## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm putting together an article for the COWC and FOSR sites, about dam removals in central Ohio. Specifically, the Main St. dam in downtown Columbus, the 5th Avenue dam on the Olentangy, and two dams on Alum Creek.

I'm asking for your observations on how the streams have changed since the dams were taken out. What happens when stagnant pools become flowing streams again? How does it affect the fishing, and the habitat in general, for better or worse?

I'd like your input on the local streams, anyway. I'm usually here as scioto_alex and I monitor the talk here to see what's going on. You guys are my thousand eyes on the streams. I'm in touch with parks and city officials so I can tell them about what you as fishermen say about the streams. What do you like, and not like?

Thanks.


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

The habitat definitely looks improved from the perspective of a smallmouth fishermen but its still very silty/muddy with not enough gravel/rock in the areas around where the dams were removed, but I suppose only time can fix that.
I really hope they are not done removing lowheads, I'd love to see every low head on both the Olentangy and Scioto removed eventually, but I am a kayak fisherman , so for me a lowhead is just a pain in the ass roadblock.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Some of the lowheads carry sewer lines across the streams, so taking them out would mean running a new line, and pumping stations, etc ... $$$$$$


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

that's a 'dam' shame


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## odell daniel (Nov 5, 2015)

I live in Larue, Marion county, seems like the water is flowing better during flood situations, it hasn't flooded as bad lately. I think the sciota around the prospect area and south is in as good of condition as I have ever seen it.


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

The more they remove the better. Habitat in town has improved. But its mostly feel good removals. Greenlawn is the obstruction to migration, species diversity, as well as holding back the silt. Granted, as long as we have terrible farming practices the silt will always be a problem


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

I count 5 total Lowheads in between the confluence and I-270 on the Olentangy, I'd be curious to see how many of those could reasonably be removed. With a little work and a lot of money the Olentangy could really be a world class urban smallmouth fishery.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Govbarney said:


> I count 5 total Lowheads in between the confluence and I-270 on the Olentangy, I'd be curious to see how many of those could reasonably be removed. With a little work and a lot of money the Olentangy could really be a world class urban smallmouth fishery.


Not with Delaware Dam. That Dam (well moreso how it's controlled) completely screws up fishing / sediment deposits for the Tangy. 

If only it were an unregulated Spillway (like Griggs or Oshay).


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## bustedrod (May 13, 2015)

you should check out the drone video of ball ville dam in fremont, now that its gone things should improve . now that the 2 low head dams are gone up here in the falls the water doesnt stink as bad,...now we need to get rid of the gorge dam and rt 82 i think and there would be steel down town here lol


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

acklac7 said:


> Not with Delaware Dam. That Dam (well moreso how it's controlled) completely screws up fishing / sediment deposits for the Tangy.
> 
> If only it were an unregulated Spillway (like Griggs or Oshay).


Can you expand on this? Curious in the technical difference between regulated and unregulated spillways and what it means for sedimentation


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

RiparianRanger said:


> Can you expand on this? Curious in the technical difference between regulated and unregulated spillways and what it means for sedimentation


There's Dam's and then there's Spillways. Two entirely different beasts (although often used indiscriminately)

With unregulated _Spillways (_as found on the Scioto_)_, there's really no controlling the River, only impounding it. The river will still act naturally south of the Spillway. Natural rise, natural fall, natural sediment deposition.

With _Dam's (_Alum,Hoover, Olentangy_), _they hold water back, then release it in massive, often ephemeral discharges. Those discharges are not natural, and neither is the sediment deposition pattern that follows.

In a nut shell a River, while impounded, is still "free" with a Spillway.

With a Dam they are controlled, and forced to behave at the will of man.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

And in response to your question Alex, the increase in Spawning habitat on the Scioto has been astounding.

All one needs to do is take a look at Scioto at the confluence. That giant, sediment-free rock bar there is *excellent* spawning habitat (for any number of species).

While I haven't fished most of the newly exposed riffles on the Scioto, I can say they look great. Absolutely phenomenal. They could use a couple more years of natural restructuring to rise to their full potential though.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

And one last thing, while we're at it. The main reason I haven't visited more of the Scioto south of the Dublin Rd lowhead (where all that freshly-exposed River lies) is because of the blasted Fencing that lines the bike path clear down to the confluence. I'm sure it's meant to keep homeless out, problem is it keeps EVERYONE out. There's really no way to enjoy that stretch of River, that fence is a nightmare.

I'll be flat-honest, about a year ago I cut a hole in that blasted thing so I could better access the River down there (charge me for all I care): The City repaired it within a week. Something really needs to be done down there, because nobody has access to that stretch of River, and it's a shame.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

I've said this here before, people have told me that the Olentangy was the best smallmouth fishing in Ohio until I-270 came through.

As for Prospect, I don't really understand what-all is going on up there. Columbus built that upground reservoir (first of three planned) and part of that design is an "inflatable weir" which apparently is a big rubber dam that can lay down flat, or they can inflate it to create a pool that can feed the reservoir.

(Maybe someday I can sweet-talk my way into a tour of all that.)

There was (is?) a lowhead below Prospect, which I saw only once. It has notches in it







- the only other lowhead I know of with a notch like that is on the Olentangy where Horseshoe Rd. meets Rt. 23. I'm not sure why they're made like that, maybe they're designed so those notches can be blocked with boards to have a higher pool?

Riperioan - May I have your avatar image, full size? I have only the tumbling person part of it but I want the whole thing with text for the page. I thought I had a full shot of the one below Griggs but darn if I can find it.








Ack - It was probably Metro Parks that fixed the fence because they own the maintenance of the bike paths.

It's funny to see how all the glitz along the Scioto Mile just ends at North Bank Park. Then it's the railroad bridge and the confluence. There are some big mud flats and I would love to plant willows there but they would become beaver snacks. They had to put protective fencing around the young oaks at North Bank because of beaver damage.

As for spawning habitat, the bottom of the Olentangy looks very promising. In geologic terms, the stream has been "rejuvinated" into a "younger" stream, meaning it's fast-flowing and actively cutting into its bed. This shot is by the old city power plant, not long after the Main St. dam removal; the stream is braided among islands and bars which were so new that nothing was growing on them yet. I need to go exploring there in shorts and sandals, with a camera.









As for the Delaware dam, it is the only flood control structure in the Scioto watershed, (edited to add, they can control Hoover but its primary purpose is not flood control) and we all know how the pool height can vary. The discharge patterns tend to be very abrupt.

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?03225500

The patterns of discharge vary in part according to whast's happening at the Worthington gauge (at Wilson Bridge Rd.)

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?03226800

When heavy rain raises the gauge at Worthington, they close the dam and the lake level rises. When the Worthington gauge goes down, they open the dam to relieve the lake.

You can overlay the two on one graph and see how they change the dam flow, cutting it down in anticipation of high water at Worthington. This looks back 31 days. The red line is the stream height immediately below the dam. You can see how they flatline the dam discharge while the Worthington gauge swings according to rainfall and runoff.

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/oh/nwis/uv?period=31&begin_date=2019-02-08&end_date=2019-02-15&cb_00060=on&site_no=03225500,03226800&format=gif_mult_sites


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

Speaking of access (which I agree is attrotius) Does anyone know if the boat ramp by the power plant just north of long street is still open to public?


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

scioto_alex said:


> ...I've said this here before, people have told me that the Olentangy was the best smallmouth fishing in Ohio until I-270 came through....


Curious what did I-270 do?


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

There was a meander there. You can still see the high bank on the west side. 270 and 315 went right through/over it.

That's why they had to put in the riprap riffles; short-cutting the stream made it drop faster.

You can see where they took out more meanders as you go south on 315. For that matter, you can see another high bank that used to overlook a meander just south of Henderson, where the pedestrian bridge crosses the road and river, which is channelized through there.

Edited to add, the little road at the west end of that pedestrian bridge was the original Olentangy River Road. So you have three generations of road there.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

scioto_alex said:


> As for spawning habitat, the bottom of the Olentangy looks very promising. In geologic terms, the stream has been "rejuvinated" into a "younger" stream, meaning it's fast-flowing and actively cutting into its bed. This shot is by the old city power plant, not long after the Main St. dam removal; the stream is braided among islands and bars which were so new that nothing was growing on them yet. I need to go exploring there in shorts and sandals, with a camera.
> View attachment 293893


Yeah, there's some extremely healthy Riffles on the Tangy near the Confluence too. Never in my life did I think we would find those once-submerged riffles in such outstanding condition. It's like they've been in a time capsule.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

There isn't another dam pool until Dodridge.

As for Greenlawn, yes it usually is a barrier except for a few times each year, when the water is high enough that it effectively disappears. At those times, Dodridge is the last (or, first?) dam all the way to the Ohio River.

This was in December 2011. The leaves stuck in the fence show that the water was about 24 inches higher than when I got that picture. Any fish that could swim faster than that current would go right past it.


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

Alex, I don't have the file used in my avatar any longer. Got a new PC since. I think if you click the pic a few times you'll eventually get to a full size image in my user profile. Feel free to snip/snag it from there.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

scioto_alex said:


> I've said this here before, people have told me that the Olentangy was the best smallmouth fishing in Ohio until I-270 came through.
> 
> As for Prospect, I don't really understand what-all is going on up there. Columbus built that upground reservoir (first of three planned) and part of that design is an "inflatable weir" which apparently is a big rubber dam that can lay down flat, or they can inflate it to create a pool that can feed the reservoir.
> 
> ...


Thanks Alex! Good information and thanks for all you do for us.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

So far so good but I'm still trolling for input from people fishing the Olentangy anywhere between the confluence and Dodridge. This board has had many people post about fishing generally near OSU and I would like to learn what they have found.

And then there's Alum. This is kind of a strange situation. There is the Friends of Alum Creek And Tributaries but their interests seem to stop at the dam.

http://friendsofalumcreek.org/

Here on OGF the interest seems to begin at the dam and the lake above. Not much talk about Alum anywhere downstream except maybe around Three Creeks. ??


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## Workingman (Jan 21, 2016)

I'm always looking at that creek around and through westerville but have never taken any action towards fishing it. Maybe this summer!


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

scioto_alex said:


> So far so good but I'm still trolling for input from people fishing the Olentangy anywhere between the confluence and Dodridge. This board has had many people post about fishing generally near OSU and I would like to learn what they have found.
> 
> And then there's Alum. This is kind of a strange situation. There is the Friends of Alum Creek And Tributaries but their interests seem to stop at the dam.
> 
> ...


Alex, I fish Alum (the creek) several times a year. Don’t have knowledge of any dams that were removed so not much to offer for comparison purposes. Like much of our urban streams I would describe it as channeled with lots of sedimentation, leaf litter, etc. Given the less than pristine condition and relatively small size it is a so-so stream for species size. Can find adequate numbers of 12” smallmouth, channels < 5 lbs., some saugeye here and there. Have yet to hook a Muskie other than a juvenile though I hear they make it in there


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## Earthworms (Dec 15, 2014)

Let’s remove green lawn dam......lol


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

scioto_alex said:


> I've said this here before, people have told me that the Olentangy was the best smallmouth fishing in Ohio until I-270 came through.
> 
> As for Prospect, I don't really understand what-all is going on up there. Columbus built that upground reservoir (first of three planned) and part of that design is an "inflatable weir" which apparently is a big rubber dam that can lay down flat, or they can inflate it to create a pool that can feed the reservoir.
> 
> ...


I believe that notched spillway at Prospect was removed a few years ago. 

I was on the parts of Alum Creek post lowhead dam removal a few years ago, but it was less than a year after there removal. So, I don't think the creek bed had changed very much.


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## bman (Apr 20, 2009)

I was very much in favor of the removal of the lowhead dams until I started wondering about how their removal may hasten the spread of Asian carp. Now I'm not so sure their removal is a good idea until we develop a way to stop the spread of this extremely destructive invasive species. I know lowhead dams do not necessarily stop fish from going upstream entirely, but it likely slows their progress. Watch us spend all sorts of money to demo the existing dams only to eventually install electronic fences and other Asian carp deterrents once they are spotted in the upper Scioto watershed. I believe the lowhead dams would slow their spread, but that's just my opinion. A physical barrier likely won't stop it, but I suspect it would greatly slow their progress up river.

I used to fish KY Lake 2-4 times a year for the past 35 years until recent years. The Asian carp problem is absolutely killing that lake right now. I've seen it first hand. God forbid they begin to populate in the upper Scioto watershed. You'll have them in just about every lake and stream in the lower half of Ohio including the Columbus area.


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

bman said:


> I was very much in favor of the removal of the lowhead dams until I started wondering about how their removal may hasten the spread of Asian carp. Now I'm not so sure their removal is a good idea until we develop a way to stop the spread of this extremely destructive invasive species. I know lowhead dams do not necessarily stop fish from going upstream entirely, but it likely slows their progress. Watch us spend all sorts of money to demo the existing dams only to eventually install electronic fences and other Asian carp deterrents once they are spotted in the upper Scioto watershed. I believe the lowhead dams would slow their spread, but that's just my opinion. A physical barrier likely won't stop it, but I suspect it would greatly slow their progress up river.
> 
> I used to fish KY Lake 2-4 times a year for the past 35 years until recent years. The Asian carp problem is absolutely killing that lake right now. I've seen it first hand. God forbid they begin to populate in the upper Scioto watershed. You'll have them in just about every lake and stream in the lower half of Ohio including the Columbus area.


Lowhead dams wont stop Asian Carp. Go try to find a couple of lowheads right now, most are underwater, and even if they are not underwater like they are in high water, the lowheads we are talking about removing could be easily 'jumped' over by a asian carp. Larger spillway/dams like Griggs, Alum, Delaware ext. might physically stop them , but if they make it that far we are already screwed.


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## meisjedog (Oct 4, 2010)

It appears they made it further than previously thought.


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## odell daniel (Nov 5, 2015)

The sciota looks as good as I have ever seen it, I'm talking Marion county south all the way to Oshaunassy, western marion county, Larue area, the river is cleaning up but it used to be 50 to 60 ft across maybe more, now it is 20 ft wide, really changed the appearance of the river, but the water is flowing unlike the past where it was almost stagnant through that area.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

I wrote up an article on local dam removals for the FOSR site:

http://asilbajo.com/fosr_web_2019/_web_articles/dam_removal/dam_removals.html


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

odell daniel said:


> The sciota looks as good as I have ever seen it, I'm talking Marion county south all the way to Oshaunassy, western marion county, Larue area, the river is cleaning up but it used to be 50 to 60 ft across maybe more, now it is 20 ft wide, really changed the appearance of the river, but the water is flowing unlike the past where it was almost stagnant through that area.


I need to get over that way and have a look. I may do that Sunday.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

One thing about the river around Klondike and elsewhere is, it's full of "glacial erratics" those round granite boulders littering the streambed. Those are chunks of the old shield rocks in Canada and they have been tumble-polished by glaciers to the point of being almost perfectly round.

In a way the river can look like a dam removal area because when the lake level goes down enough there's flow in the river again, as if the dam were gone.










You can really scratch up a boat around there.


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