# Popularity In Pay Lakes Increasing?



## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

*First off, just so this thread doesnt get pulled, I am not saying wheter I am FOR or AGAINST Paylakes.* *I REALLY want to get opinons to this, so I'm not being a troublemaker w/ this post.* *If you cant act civil, then please stay out of this thread.*


I have noticied that there are lots of new, smaller size Pay Lakes poping up in Ohio. Here are my questions:

#1.) Is this due to an increase in overall Fishing Intrest?
#2.) Is this due to an increase in popularity of the Catfish species?
#3.) If answer #1 is no, is it due to an increase of this particular type of fishing?

Points in regards to my questions

If the popularity of CATFISHING in increasing, the # of people of targeting them is increasing, which means the # of fish being caught is increasing, which means the # of fish being kept is increasing, which means (baring some unbeleivable spawn the last few years) the population of catfish is decreasing right? I say this because MANY big time Ohio River Catmen have complained over the last couple years about how the cats arent hitting or at least being caught the way they have been in the past. Could their be a correlation? Could MORE PAYLAKES = A NEED FOR MORE CATFISH Catfish) (CATFISH COMMERICIALLY CAUGHT & TAKEN OUT OF THE RIVER & COMMERICALLY SOLD) ? -All this is legal, so it's within the person's or company's rights to do so, I am just wondering if we can connect the dots on all of this. 

If my hypothis (spelling?) is true, then wouldnt we all , the reg catter & the catter improve our fishing by seeing creel limits created? I guess that still doesnt address the commericial issue though, does it?


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

I think the answers to 1 and 2 are both yes. Ease of access and catching fish relativly easy is appealing to many new anglers among many other things paylakes provide. Why spend countless hours/days/months/years even trying to locate then catch a large wild fish when you can do it "sometimes" on the hour in a paylake? People whom consider themself "sportsmen" don't see how that can be considered sporting, but people whom really arn't sportsmen, or at least sportsmen in the sense of the word I use it, love them.

On top of that, it's a great way for people who enjoy to "gamble" (speaking of tagged fish) and spend time with their friends while doing something they enjoy.

These new paylakes popping up is because there is a demand for it. There is a relativly low over head cost to maintain it, and fair ammount of money that comes into it. It's a money maker, if it wasn't they wouldn't exsist. Fishing in the wild gets harder, paylaking looks easier - there-in lies the answer for most I assume. Again, like thing's we've discussed in the past, the irony of it all is it's a catch 22. Real fishing gets harder, because demand for easy "fishing" increases


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## cwcarper (Apr 5, 2004)

As a FORMER paylaker, it's my belief that there is an increase in catfishing popularity nationwide, and as a result, an increase in paylake fishing in regions where paylaking is popular. Catfish are beginning to be treated like the trophy fish they are in many regions across the US as a result of the increased coverage they are receiving by the media, internet, tournies, etc. In southwest Ohio, more than a few people associate fishing for catfish with going to the local paylake. That's how I got started when I was a kid, because that's what was convenient for me at the time. I always caught more fish at paylakes than in the local reservoirs and public ponds, so I fished the paylakes as often as possible. There's so much exposure to it in that region, and there is definitely money to be made, so a lot of the smaller lakes are popping up.

Can't really comment on the population of catfish, but my guess would be that in the Ohio River where commercial fishing is practiced, supplying these paylakes has to be taking its toll on the number of fish, particularly the big ones. Even on the Ohio River, you can't continue to deplete a resource like that and expect it to always produce at the same rate. As far as other lakes and rivers...overall I'd say the impact is small, and for the most part there are just as many fish out there as before...except in places that have been seriously overloaded with pressure. You've always got the local areas, though, where populations are being depleted. One example is the East Fork Little Miami River...I know of people who do some serious limblining and trotlining for flatheads so they can stock their personal ponds (and maybe even supply the paylakes illegaly??), as well as others that fill their freezers with channel cats. On a body of water as small as the EFLM, this has a major impact on the stretches of river that are fished, even when it's only a few people doing it.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

I'd say _Yes_.
-Increase in fishing popularity.
-Increase in catfishing popularity (ranks right behind LM bass).
-Yes, popularity of paylakes is increasing, as more & more people learn they might win $700 or $1,000 for spending $20 to go fishing for a big fish that you know is in a pond you can cast over to the other side....no license, or boat required, why not?  
-Yes, creel limits would protect native stocks and if KY would mirror TN regs for the Ohio River, it might get strong like the Red River in Canada. Apparently there's good stocks of big catfish in some states, like Virginia where they net them from the James River. I don't know the particulars, but I've heard the fishing in TN has improved already since the ban on 34" and larger fish by netters.
You can be sure there will always be customers for paylakes. It depends on how & where they get their fish is what bothers me and most others. Not all get them from the wild. Different lakes stess different styles of fishing. Many today are essentially gambling establishments, wagering on who will catch a bigger fish. Maybe that will be the key to a change, are they in violation of any gaming laws??


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## BottomBouncer (Jan 20, 2005)

I've noticed, especially in one of my more favorite areas, that that cats are few and far between. I used to walk farther than everyone else to catch them, now I have to walk more because the lazies that fish off the side of the road are moving down stream. It seems to catch fish consistantly, you have to get more creative and go further away than others are willing to do. The more parks are being built on local creeks and rivers.....so people are getting easier access to areas they would have never fished before.....


I'm not saying that I will never fish a pay lake again..........but I'm gonna have to get a canoe or jon boat just to get far enough away to catch some cats on bodies of water that I used to only have to walk 1/2 mile or so.....and this was just a couple years ago.


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## bigjohn513 (Apr 6, 2004)

yeeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....i gots me a big on to sell...sad very sad


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

Once they deplete the ohio river, they then will get there fish from smaller rivers and lakes..IT IS GOING TO HURT US ALL IN THE LONG RUN...I know people now who trotline the scioto which is legal, and sell there catch to paylakes which is illegal..And yes I have contacted the proper people, who did not care.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I also know people who keep every catfish they catch to stock private ponds..which I dont think is illegal, but it sure puts a hurting on the population of flatheads.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

One more thing..I dont think anything short of extinction of the species will stop them..At least then we can tell all those who think we have an endless supply of trophy catfish, I TOLD YOU SO!


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Well said Jack...
Some people do not care about catfish or fair play thye just want theirs


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

paylakes are for people who cant catch fish in a public body of water !! thats my opinion !!!  they are destroying our public fisheries !!!  if EVERY fish were bought from catfish farms or hatcheries, i would have NO problem with paylakes, after all there is always people looking for the EASY (very little work involverd) way to do things.


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## truck (Apr 12, 2004)

I know lots of paylakers,it's all about easy catching and MONEY


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## twistertail (Apr 10, 2004)

I have never been to a pay lake, heck never even seen one, what are they like? You say small lakes, how small you talking? I have read a lot about them from you guys and they dont sound like much fun. It seems to me that IF they got all their fish from catfish farms that it would be a win win situation for all, people who wanted a lot of catfish to eat could go there and get them and not hurt the populations in the rivers and lakes. Are they getting all their fish from public waters or just the big flats and blues?


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

From everything I've seen, the big ones are from the wild. You can find one of the recent threads about this topic and there's a link, where he nets tons of big fish every year to stock. In June he puts in flatheads...( I wonder if he hand grabs them ??)


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## twistertail (Apr 10, 2004)

I'm sure this question has been answered but is it legal for them to do that? Do they have to get some kind of commercial license?


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

This has been discussed over & over. Please refer to recent threads with links, messages from the OH DNR, KY DNR, TN regs, etc. It's probably right here in catfish forum, any and everything you want to know and a bunch of stuff you'd rather not know....


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

Click here!


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I guess I'm one of the few that think Paylakes have their use, for instance my son likes to go, I take him once a year to a paylake, we usually go for carp, he thinks its fun that he can build a fire, roast marshmellows and fall alseep nex to a lake., so I guess we really dont go for the fishing. Thats straneg isnt it. I would justa ssume that apay lake stock 100% farm rasied Channels for what I go for, maybe that would be a way for everyone to win out. Now dont get me wrong, I'm not a "Paylaker" by any means, but I started this thread off by trying to be as non negative as I can, so I wont say anything else! Just seems like someone somewhere is missing the point on how commerical fishing is ruining our native fisheries & improving the non native fisheries such as paylakes.


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## Jackfish (Apr 15, 2004)

Mellon  Ive got an 11 yr old daughter  she loves to fish. Cats are a nighttime fish & there arent a lot of areas I know of around here that I can safely take an 11 yr old girl at night and have a reasonable chance to catch fish. My 2 solutions: 
1.	wake up at about 4am and fish sunrise on the GMR with her, nobody usually left on the river at that time, but sure is heck of a lot of work. We have got a few nice cats doing this, but wow is it a pain.
2.	Take her to a paylake. Ill do this about 2x each summer. She loves it, I have a little portable DVD player for her when the fish arent biting, we get to hang out outside, and she gets to reel in whatever we catch. So I agree  there is a place for paylakes.

A quick glance around at any of the paylakes though, and you can quickly guess the majority of the people there arent what most of us would call sportsman; the majority arent there to take a kid fishing either. From my experience paylake fishing blows if you are a sportsman  yes I have caught big fish out of a paylake  for one thing I dont think they count, for two Id rather catch a 5lb river flat than a 40lb paylake flat  one of my favorite things about cats is also one of my favorite things about pike  to hold up a large, healthy, apex predator, admire it, and then see it swim off. Seeing it swim off towards the green glow of 200 bobbers just doesnt cut it. 

I posted that last week I finally caught my hog out of the GMR. The dark part of that story is the next night. A friend showed up just to hang out and chat (not a fisherman), when he showed up he said thats wild, there is a truck up there with a big tank and it had a big catfish in it. Why do you suppose that would be  ? These fish arent just coming from the Ohio River. 

Paylakes are a great idea as long as they dont rape our resources. This could be done, the trout guys do it. They have sportsman clubs with streams running through them stocked with farm raised fish. 

Yes  paylakes seem to be getting more popular. Yes- your theory about real fishing being compromised for the sake of easy fishing is valid.


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

bottom line on some of the pay lakes getting there fish from the Ohio river and other river in Ohio is that until they can no longer get the fish they need to make money, they will not stop doing it. it is all about money. If they only stocked farm raised fish, it would cost them more I am sure to have a 70 or 80 lb flattie than if they just paid some fee to someone to catch(net) a big flattie that is already that size. When the fish disappear, the pay lakes that depend on out public waterways will not make the money and then wonder why not.

Kind of like the kids, well they are prob my age or so, but I still call them kids. They were fishing Will's Creek and wondered why I was letting go the 36 inch flattie I caught there. I told them that if you keep all the big ones, you will not be catching very many for very long. He said that was not true. Go figure......then next year when they go there and don't do very good, they will wonder why  I know easy access if affecting that place already. I have noticed a decrease in numbers of fish since they put the road in. Nobody ever wanted to walk down the hill before, but now all kinds of people are there that never fished it before.


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## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

I have never been to a paylack. I don't have a problem with them or the people that fish them. I look at like this: you pay to fish in a nice farm pond that you know has fish in it. You still have to get the fish to bite. Now as far as taking fish out of the rivers and putting them into water and having someone pay you to catch that same fish is just a crime. I have noticed over the last year that there have been several post including someone seeing cats removed and put into a truck to go to a pay lack. FOR GOODNESS SAKE CALL THE ATHORITIES AND GET THAT LICENSE NUMBER. Do something besides telling us how mad you are. For those that still think that we can't make a difference look at what happened to the park fee issue.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

> FOR GOODNESS SAKE CALL THE ATHORITIES AND GET THAT LICENSE NUMBER


...shame you have to tell someone to do that simple little thing...


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## Jackfish (Apr 15, 2004)

Given some circumstances I wasn't in a postion to get the license - if I find myself in position where I can get it, you can bet I will.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

Jackfish said:


> Seeing it swim off towards the green glow of 200 bobbers just doesnt cut it.


bwahahaha GOOD ONE!!! I died laughing after reading that! Thanks for the good laugh!


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Fact of the matter is Ohio is probably the #1 state for paylakes , especially for large cats...And Southwest Ohio leading the way. So in reality , no the paylakes are not getting more and more popular .. In all my travels throughout the states , the only other state that I saw a few paylakes were in South Carolina , and they were for carp . In fact , there are probably 30 in my area alone. A few years ago when the ODNR busted about 15 of them for buying flatheads caught by private individuals , it was that artical I read about Ohio being unique to the large cat paylakes... Believe me , I've seen things WORST than paylakes on big cats.... It's common practice in South Carolina for people to cut the small strips of meat off the back of a 40 or 50 pound cat. I'm talkin about 5-8 pounds of meat . The rest of the fish is thrown into the rivers.. I saw a rope that had 25 flathead dead with their backs cut up .............I asked a woman who would do that and she said they all do it and it's perfectly legal .............. CATKING


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## jfout (Apr 26, 2004)

Man that makes me sick to my stomach.I mean by law, they can do it, but I can'
t imagine just cutting off a backstrap off a pig of a catfish, for meal purposes. If you want the meat that bad take the whole fish, not just the back meat. I mean that helps the sterotyping of stupid ********,that just fish for catfish. The 25# in my avatar im proud of and I am glad its back in the water and still swimming around. And if anyones lurking around and in need of a fish sandwich that bad, I'll buy you one.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Seen it happen here too, but w/ Channels. Just saw a dozen or so Channels liek that @ the Kettering Rec center a few weeks ago.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

I lived in SC for 4 years having allot of friends down there as well and never saw any signs of cats getting their loins cut out... Everyone I met fishing for cats or any other fish were total sportsmen and class acts... I don't think we should be spreading rumors about poeple from that state that can't defend themselves unless of course there are pictures to back it up...


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## Darwin (Apr 12, 2004)

catking said:


> It's common practice in South Carolina for people to cut the small strips of meat off the back of a 40 or 50 pound cat. I'm talkin about 5-8 pounds of meat . The rest of the fish is thrown into the rivers.. I saw a rope that had 25 flathead dead with their backs cut up .............I asked a woman who would do that and she said they all do it and it's perfectly legal .............. CATKING


I have seen this in Tennessee and was totally shocked! It was the first trip we made to the Land Between the Lakes area and we were staying with an uncle down there. I was about 10 years old. We got there around 10:00 in the evening and walked into a fish cleaning area and there was a couple of guys cleaning a mess of big catfish. They would cut the fish on the sides from one pectoral fin to the other. They would then hang the fish on a nail sticking out from a post. Then they pulled the skin back with a pair of plyers and just cut off the meat along the back of the fish.  
I made the mistake of saying "boy Dad that sure seems like a big waste?" One of the guys said "boy that's the way we do it down here!" Dad just grabbed my hand and we walked out. We have been back down in the area a few times since but only saw it one other time.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

I saw this on the Santee River . I go down SC about every year and it is common practice. It's not a rumor . it's a fact of life down there. But you have to get away from the city and get into the back country ... I would take offence from what you said Clyde, but then again , I really don't care what you say what I saw and what I didn't.... CATKING


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

> I really don't care what you say


*DITTO  ....*


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## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

I do not get bothered by some one just taking a certain peice of meat to eat. My question is why? It is the same as getting the little piece of meat that is located behind the eyes of big cats. Why waste so much good food. I have tried just about every spot on a cat and have to say it all taste goooooood. I wonder what the reason to only taking that one piece of meat is. That would be like taking just the tenderloin off of a steer and leaving the tbone for the hound. 
Any way back to the main topic of this post, pay lake. You pay for your cat, the guy behind the counter taking your money should be paying someone to grow that cat for you.


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## catfishhunter33 (Apr 6, 2004)

hhjhjhjhjhjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj


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## Perch (Apr 5, 2004)

CATKING !

Man, thats ironic about the sliced up cats...............two of my really good friends were down last month to Santee cooper and fished the river areas..........I talked to them wed eve this week and they told me the same basic story...............I was kinda shocked when I read your post because I had just heard this from someone else.................dang! what a waste...hell if your gonna do that bring em home and sell em to the Jones boys ya know !!


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Guys this may be a more common practise than what we think, like I said, i witnesed it in Kettering, OH! My six year old asked about then & I couldnt really explain WHY to him.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

catfishhunter33 said:


> the belly meat on any fish
> is not the best
> tasting
> so i usually dont
> ...



What's
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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

See my pic in another thread, but it was taken 6/18/05 @ 6:30 PM in Fairborn!


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## dip (Apr 5, 2004)

one time i was thinking about going to santee and fishing with a guide. found quite a few guide services and they virtually all have pics of 2 or 3 customers posing by a huge peg board with scores of cats of all sizes hanging and usually more on the ground. wonder how much meat is dumpster bound? a friend from oklahoma saw a guy bring what he thought was an oklahoma state record flathead to a certified bait shop to get weighed.... was a bit short so the guy thowed it in the bait shop's dumpster.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

I can't speak for other areas, but when I was at Santee, all those fish kept were filleted and bagged up. The bluecats there are said to taste as good or better than crappies due to the lake having a sandy bottom vs. a mud bottom. The fish are cleaner, in the meat.
The Oklahoma deal stinks.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Hey H2O Mellon from that pic it looks like those cats were fillets and noty just the backs taken out...
Yea Jim all my buddies are from the Santee Cooper area and that is where I fished and nothing ever was waisted when I was there... Not that it wouldn't or couldn't be done I imagine you would have a few bad apples there too...


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## cwcarper (Apr 5, 2004)

Missed the latter parts of this thread...just have to add to the Santee River and Santee Cooper info. Definitely saw fish cleaned bankside with the carcasses left to rot..not just cats, either, but bass as well. Sorry...no pics as that happened during the pre-digital days. Lots of carp and gar left rotting on the banks, too. Not to generalize about the whole state or even that specific area...just that I had never seen stringers full of fish left rotting on the banks with only the "prime" fillets removed before going down there (but not the first I had seen of carp and gar left to rot). All those going out on the guideboats and such were fine...filleted everything and disposed of the carcasses properly. Seems everybody keeps just about everything they catch out there, though, but if you're paying a guide to take you out I'd expect to want some fillets to bring home as well. Of course we released everything when we went out on the guideboat.

Of course they still have commercial fishing in that system of lakes which has caused plenty of problems in itself, not to mention the decline of the striper population. The bluecats won't be far behind.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

> commercial fishing in that system of lakes which has caused plenty of problems in itself, not to mention the decline of the striper population. The bluecats won't be far behind


Stripers are virtually gone. Big bluecats in the lake (Marion) are just not there.


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## BigChessie (Mar 12, 2005)

Have to admit after reading about just the backs of the fish being used and the rest tossed. Makes me think alittle bit about how we duck and goose hunt. All of are birds we just breast out and thats it. Wonder if the same thought goes into those fish from those guys, just not worth messing with the rest of the critter. Not trying to defend them in any way but just kinda struck me funny that I could be accused of the same thing when it comes to waterfowl.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I never really thought it like that......


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