# De-carping Grand Lake St. Marys



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

First week of netting rough-fish at Grand Lake St. Marys produced approximately 6000 pounds of fish. You may be surprised at some of the species netted. Below is a quote from the State Park Mgr about netting results.

We have seen all kinds of fish in the traps, but there has been very little mortality of the game fish, said Brian Miller, manager of Grand Lake St. Marys State Park. There have been plenty of yellow perch, crappies, bluegills, walleyes, bass, catfish and northern pike. I saw crappies as small as four inches and as large as 13-inches plus. The walleyes were good size and Id say the pike was about 28 inches.

Also, the Lake Improvement Association is sponsoring a Get the Carp Outta Here! fishing tournament in early June. Go to link below for details/rules and details of more than $2000 in cash and prizes. A flyer can be downloaded at the link. Registration is $5..........where can you get more fun for $5?

www.lakeimprovement.com/carp-derby-details


----------



## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

6000lbs of rough fish? What does one do with that much fish?


----------



## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

I believe it was mentioned that they were going to be ground up to make livestock feed, which seems a pretty reasonable use of them.


----------



## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

nitsud said:


> I believe it was mentioned that they were going to be ground up to make livestock feed, which seems a pretty reasonable use of them.


I read that somewhere as well so it's good they're gonna be used and not tossed aside in a big trash dumpster. It's a win win situation actually. The lake was relieved of some unwanted fish and the animals that get to eventually eat the food will benefit from the nutrition it'll help provide.


----------



## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

Zaraspook I'm actually considering getting in that derby even though I don't like to fish for carp. It might actually be entertaining to catch a few and have a chance of winning some cash for doing so. Plus it could be my way of helping out GLSM and it'd be neat to fish the place for the first time.


----------



## Dandrews (Oct 10, 2010)

That sounds like it could be a blast; Ive already got something going on for June 3rd & 4th but I might make it up there for the 5th.


----------



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

spfldbassguy said:


> Zaraspook I'm actually considering getting in that derby even though I don't like to fish for carp. It might actually be entertaining to catch a few and have a chance of winning some cash for doing so. Plus it could be my way of helping out GLSM and it'd be neat to fish the place for the first time.


Hope you make it there and we'll much appreciate any carp you remove. I'm not a carp guy either. Don't recall ever fishing for carp other than 30+ years ago in the Great Miami River just south of downtown Dayton. A friend and I found a recipe for carp doughballs......main ingredients were Wheaties, strawberry gelatin, plus some other really odd flavoring I don't recall. We rolled several hundred doughballs and hit the Great Miami at dawn. We quit by Noon, not for the lack of fish, but we were wore out having played tug-of-war all morning with the carp.

Biggest carp I've caught at GLSM were with crankbaits. I was boat fishing trying to catch bass or walleye off rip-rap fishing piers that are constructed in many areas. Twice last year got into an extended fight with 26"+ carp. Neither fish was snagged, both hooked in the mouth, but I've snagged a few, too.


----------



## chrsvic (Apr 20, 2005)

Soylent carp:

In recent days, state park staffers have been using trap nets. When a trap is full, the workers pull the game fish out and quickly release them. But when they come to a carp, quillback carpsucker or a gizzard shad, they say, Not so fast. Those three species of rough fish are pulled out and eventually hauled away to become pet food or fertilizer. The reason these species are being targeted is they contribute to the pollution problem in the lake by producing phosphorus in their waste. Phosphorus feeds the blue-green algae that have plagued the lake in recent years.

Continue reading on Examiner.com: The de-carping of Grand Lake St. Marys - Dayton Outdoor Recreation | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/outdoor-rec...-carping-of-grand-lake-st-marys#ixzz1KpTQ18Fy


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

6,000# sounds like a BUNCH of fish but they don't call it Grand Lake for no reason. I wonder how much of an impact that 6,000# rally had on the overall population? I am not implying their efforts are not worthwhile. I am just trying to get a perspective on it. And how long are they planning to do the netting?


----------



## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

It's a minor point, but the carp don't produce phosphorus, which is an element typically generated in the center of stars, unless they have some sort of fusion reactor in their guts that I didn't know about. Then again, maybe that explains the smell.

They just stir up and eat off of the the bottom, which reintroduces the phosphorus back into the water, both by the stirring action, and the crapping action. I guess the thought behind this is that if it doesn't get stirred up, the phosphorus (and other fertilizer) on the bottom will eventually be buried by other sediment? I suppose the point is just to stop the blooming by any means necessary in the short term?

I'm a little puzzled why gizzard shad would have high phosphorus levels in their feces, though. I thought they were plankton feeders rather than bottom feeders. There is something in the wikipedia article on them about them eating plankton that eats algae, so maybe that's the concern.


----------



## socdad (Jul 25, 2005)

Sounds like another positive step in the lengthily process of cleaning up GLSM  but I swear I read the thread title as De-crapping Grand Lake St. Mary my old eyes playing tricks on me  but I did get a good laugh over it


----------



## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

bkr43050 said:


> 6,000# sounds like a BUNCH of fish but they don't call it Grand Lake for no reason. I wonder how much of an impact that 6,000# rally had on the overall population? I am not implying their efforts are not worthwhile. I am just trying to get a perspective on it. And how long are they planning to do the netting?


You're right, it aint much. My have more to appeasing property owners up around the lake.


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

great post..count me in!


----------



## jmk112 (Mar 12, 2006)

This is good news and looks like a fun tournament.

I was out last weekend crappie fishing and it was VERY good. Caught lots of healthy looking crappie with 3 over 12+"


----------



## saugmon (Jun 14, 2006)

My brother was stationed in belgium back in the mid 80's.The europeans would throw back trout and keep the carp.Carp fishing is big over there and the hooks they use are so tiny,it would be hard to hook a little bluegill.

I'd like to see that program expand over to Indian Lake.


----------



## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Realise that carp don`t get much intentional fishing pressure, and are VERY prolific breeders, seems amazing that they aren`t cosidered a sports fish if ONLY for the fight! Between a 3 pd bass and a 3 pd carp, you`ll have the bass flopping while the carp will still be on it`s 3rd or 4th power run...and might suggest you use a STOUT rig; they are also often surprisingly wary taking a bait, hence using smaller baits and small hooks...they seem to have a weakness for soft craws...


----------



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

bkr43050 said:


> 6,000# sounds like a BUNCH of fish but they don't call it Grand Lake for no reason. I wonder how much of an impact that 6,000# rally had on the overall population? I am not implying their efforts are not worthwhile. I am just trying to get a perspective on it. And how long are they planning to do the netting?


bkr.......I read somewhere the netting operation is "ongoing", not just a couple week shot. Initially 6 nets were deployed to be checked daily. Lake was so rough due to weather the nets couldn't be checked the next day. After 48 hours so many fish were harvested it completely filled the available containers and bottoms of collection boats. State reduced number of nets deployed by 50%. If they sustain the rate of 6000# a week, it will have an impact sooner or later.


----------



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

jmk112 said:


> This is good news and looks like a fun tournament.
> 
> I was out last weekend crappie fishing and it was VERY good. Caught lots of healthy looking crappie with 3 over 12+"


jmk112........way to go with the crappies! As we get closer to spawn the size is definitely improving. I was at lake last night(Thurs) and water level is up a foot from prior weekend. Channels on south side are extremely muddy again, to be expected since bulk of feeder creeks are in south. Clarity on north side of lake was dramatically better.


----------



## Carpn (Apr 5, 2004)

I dunno if it is really possible to remove enough carp to make a dent but I applaud them for trying. If they are able to make a sizeable dent in the population there should be a reduction in water turbidity which will result in more submergent weed growth which should help break down much of the nutrients that get washed in and result in algae blooms...


----------



## cwcarper (Apr 5, 2004)

You'd have to net a lot more than 6,000 lbs (or even 60,000 lbs) to make a difference in a lake that size. Even if they are able to net a lot more it'll only be a temporary fix - after a few spawns all the fish they're removing will be replaced. This type of removal has been tried on other lakes in the past and the carp had repopulated within a few years (with more, smaller fish).

I'm not necessarily against what they're trying to do and hope it helps for the sake of Grand Lake St. Marys - I just doubt it's going to solve anything. As long as they've got farm runoff they're going to have problems.


----------



## jmk112 (Mar 12, 2006)

They need to have the tournament NOW... The carp are spawing like crazy.. The water was above the seawalls yesterday when I was out. 

Much tougher crappie bite due to high water and mud, but still had 10+ keepers in 3 hours.


----------



## fisharder (Mar 18, 2005)

I have always contended that if you want to control carp or other
evasive species put a bounty on them they would be under control in short order! One thing we seem to be good at is over fishing a species


----------



## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

but I think that you need to target the big fish for removal because they're prime breeders AND too big to be eaten by other fish.

Where are all the bowfishermen?


----------



## cwcarper (Apr 5, 2004)

Actually, it's more likely that targetting the larger fish (20 - 30 lbs) would have the opposite effect. The biomass removed by a 20 - 30 lb fish would be replaced by several smaller carp, which means more potential breeders, and eventually could lead to a huge population of stunted carp.

Once the carp reach maturity (which is at a small size, but still too big for most predators), they all spawn like crazy anyway. The few big fish aren't the ones increasing the population - it's the thousands of 5 - 10 lb fish swimming around.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Gigantic waste of money.


----------



## Ðe§perado™ (Apr 15, 2004)

Looks like we need a major numbers bowfishing tournament. The one with the most and biggest fish win!!!


----------



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

One of my buddies is a bass fisherman, but he always carries his fly rod on his boat. When the bass aren't cooperating and he sights carp working the surface, out comes the flyrod and a fly he's tied specifically for carp. He sight fishes for them, presents the fly, and game on. It's amazing to watch. A 25"+ carp on a fly rod is a royal struggle!


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Zaraspook, Do you think all of this heavy spring rain will help "flush out" that big toliet. I know the ground/soil will be leeched of all the nutrients because of the excessive water and was wondering if it might do the same for GLSM.


----------



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

Intimidator......great question and a subject of a mild debate. Are the rains/flooding pushing more contaminants into the lake than are being flushed out/over the spillway? Lack of flow is a primary problem, and somewhere I read it takes GLSM 1.6 (or maybe 2.6) years to turnover the water volume. The last month+ of downpours undoubtedly are "flushing" lots of stuff out of the bowl.

Unfortunately, the farm fields in watershed saw legal widespread manure application before the rains came. Flooding of those fields carried a new round of trouble into creeks and the lake. I think the first few rains probably carried the heaviest manure content. Since fields are so saturated and farmers unable to work fields or apply more manure, the last few rounds of flooding from fields may have been less potent. Just an opinion, no data to support it, but I think chances are decent flooding could have a net positive impact.


----------



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

_Info below copied and pasted form May 3rd Celina Daily Standard about netting program._

More than four tons of rough fish removed from Grand Lake:
Two Grand Lake St. Marys State Park seasonal workers have removed more than four tons (8,000 pounds) of quillback carp suckers, carp and gizzard shad from the lake since mid-April, park manager Brian Miller said.
The recent windy, wet weather has put the rough fish removal on hold the last week and a half. When the lake is choppy, workers cannot get to the trap nets accessible only by boat.
Miller said a third seasonal worker will be hired to aid in the "very labor intensive work."
Rough fish removal was recommended in a local plan to restore the lake. The fish contribute to algae growth by re-suspending sediment and nutrients and excreting phosphorous in their waste, which feeds the algae. Some carp can grow to 10 pounds.
State officials estimate by weight 90 percent of the fish in the lake are rough, which do well in poor water quality conditions.
The project has given state workers a look at the lake's game fish population. Game fish caught in the nets are thrown back, and the rough fish are picked up by an area rendering facility to be turned into poultry feed.
"That's what's interesting is seeing all the fish we have in this lake," Miller said. "We're seeing beautiful crappie, yellow perch, sunfish, walleye, northern pike and catfish."


----------

