# Tilapia or Golden Shiner



## Luns

Im pretty sure ive decieded to pull the trigger this spring and stock one of the two, but was hoping for some advice from people who have maybe used both or just one. All i am after is adding lbs to my bass. The past two years i have been culling the small ones, adding alot of structure, and adding crawdads. Last year i was blessed with catching 3 fish from my pond over 7lbs and another 4-5 fish that were over 6lbs. I had 4lbers and 5lbers too, but those dont get the credit lol. Point is though, there are some big predators in there so i dont want to get minnows.

Its a 3 acre pond that at its deepest is 25'-30'. My grandpa and i have been sinking our christmas trees for as long as i can remeber throughout the pond. But, on the shallow end last year i sunk 17 trees, and have 19 more that as soon as the ice melts ill put in as well to have a huge area for the forage to hide.

My question though is what is going to benefit my bass more, GS or Tilapia? I know the tilapia are great spawners and can get decent size but die off in the winter. I dont know much about the GS but like that they can get to 6" or so. Im going to release whichever species i go with on the shallow end in hopes they will quickly make their home in all the trees ive sunk. Any tips would be appreciated and hopefully i can find the right solution for my quest of growing the biggest bass possible.


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## leupy

Tilapia are very expensive and die of in the fall, they are very good at cleaning your pond but in my opinion not a good food fish. Golden shinners are just minnows just larger than fatheads. My advise would be to over stock bluegills and buy them as large as you can find, they will reproduce well providing fry for fish food and are cheaper than tilapia plus they will over winter. I do stock tilapia but its more just to clean the pond without using chemicals, even thought chemicals are cheaper.


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## Luns

I like the idea of more bluegil, but i guess the biggest thing then also is i like how easy a GS could be digested compared to a bluegil. The bluegil would thrive more im sure then the GS, but if i could somehow promote the growth of the GS and do a stocking once a year i think they would benefit my goal more, but maybe im wrong. With not being as "spiny" as a bluegil and with them schooling, i think if a big girl got on a big school of them, it could be magic. Either way thanks for the response, id like to get as much input as i can before i actually put money down.


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## hang_loose

Good advice leupy... Luns, big fish eat big fish. Your (monster) bass probably wouldn't waste the energy trying to eat smaller fish (why eat a chicken nugget when you could have the whole chicken). Big gills might be your best bet with all of the structure in your pond. And their spawn will definatly use that structure.


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## Luns

While im more then aware that big fish eat big fish, ill have you look at it in a human perspective.....If i have a 6" popsicle(really no digesting at all, which would be similar to a golden shiner that dont really have the bones like a BG) or a 6" rack of ribs(you have to pull all the meat off the bones, similar to a BG)....whats easier to work with and digest? Not trying to start a fight, just trying to give what i feel is a logical counter debate.

I guess i was just hoping that the GS could thrive enough in the pond and make a home that they could reproduce. The thing with bluegil is they are more expensive and as much as i dont want to think about it, white trash loves to sneak in and take as many fish as they can, even though i have signs posted. A GS isnt something that people i think would keep and eat, could be wrong, where as a BG is obviously something they are after.

Ive never had to pay for a stocking as i have done my own kind of managing, but i think the pond has gotten to a point that it needs that extra food to push it over the edge. My grandpa kind of handed the pond over to me 3 years ago and since then i have made all kinds of improvements. Ive never really had to put a significant amount of money in, so i guess im kind of hesitant to, thats why i want to make sure i get the best bang for the buck. In the end, it might be BG but i just want to make sure all angles are covered.


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## M.Magis

hang_loose said:


> Good advice leupy... Luns, big fish eat big fish. Your (monster) bass probably wouldn't waste the energy trying to eat smaller fish (why eat a chicken nugget when you could have the whole chicken). Big gills might be your best bet with all of the structure in your pond. And their spawn will definatly use that structure.


Golden shiners get as big, or bigger, than most bluegills. I would go with the golden shiners myself. To me they're a better food source than bluegills, but that's more opinion than fact.


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## hang_loose

Luns, I really don't think the human perspective comes into dealing with fish eating what they want to eat (predators eat what ever they can get down their throat, bones and all). I just figure the bigger your predator fish are, the bigger meal they want.


But it is your pond and you can stock what you want to. I've had people tell me not to stock some types of fish and I did it anyway. Most are around fish ohio size and no overpopulation.... But then again, I don't have********** sneaking into my pond.


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## streamstalker

I don't know squat about pond management...just curious and drinkng my coffee. What about laying in some flat rock (maybe find some broken roofing tile) in spots and stocking crawdads? Would that work only in a spring or stream fed pond?


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## leupy

If the pond has a dam crawdads are not a good idea, they can cause leaks in the dam. If the bass population is good they most likely won't last long anyway.


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## [email protected]

Luns, has gizzard shad been considered? 3acre pond with many fish over 5LBS would be a candidate. Huge spawns, fast growing, high energy food. They typically aren't recommended for ponds but most ponds aren't 3 acres and producing multiple 7LB bass.


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## Rainman

Tilapia will produce more pounds in forage fish annually than any other fish in Ohio, yet do die annually and also eat plants/algae no othe fish can. Bluegill are the staple fod for bass in a pond and shiners grow up to 8 inches providing another forage source that is easier for Bass to eat.

Tilapia are expensive, but do more for that dollar than it would cost to pay for all the benefits tilapia bring in a pond than what the cost would be for supplemental food, chemical plant control, aeration, and dredging...Tilapia are a HUGE bang for the buck!

I do have about 200 large adult Bluegill and those are a steady, constant forage source.....Gizzard shad will trash a 3 acre pond in no time and eventually ruin the fishery...not an "if"..it's "when"....


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## boss302

Just curious, what's the going rate for talapia? Also stocking recommendation for 3/4 acre pond? Pond is about 15 years old and the bass are finally getting decent sized bit are skinny. 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Rainman

boss302 said:


> Just curious, what's the going rate for talapia? Also stocking recommendation for 3/4 acre pond? Pond is about 15 years old and the bass are finally getting decent sized bit are skinny.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


20-30 pounds if most water is over 10 feet deep and just wanting algae control....30-60 pounds if you're wanting a lot of added muck removal and forage production. Stocking by "numbers of fish" is purely a guessing game and will never be reliable...worse when graded fish are used. Regardless of what others may claim, I am the only source for a pure strain of Blue Tilapia, which live longest, eat the widest variety of plants and reproduce far more than all other hybrids/species.

My price this year is $25/lb on orders under 100 pounds per stop plus a small delivery/stop fee depending on where.


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## boss302

> $500..and they die off .that's a tough sell. 

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## Rainman

boss302 said:


> > $500..and they die off .that's a tough sell.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


It's not a "tough sale" when you realize the benefits and just HOW tilapia work in the eco system....Dying each Fall, IS the magic in the tilapia.

If you want FA free waters, the cost of the chemical alone would cover the $500, and dead FA decays to become new FA, but you added copper and other chemicals. That doesn't even cover the fact that tilapia aerate the water, consume organic debris like dead fish, poop, leaves, etc which DRASTICALLY improves the water quality. 20 pounds of BLUE Tilapia will equal about 600-800 pounds of QUALITY fish feed (Like Aquamax at $30-$50 per 50# bag). In 3 years of regular use of tilapia, by them dying annually, your pond will support 2-4 times the total pounds of fish (not including the tilapia weight)....AND, the only work you expend for all these benefits...writing the check.

If Tilapia did not die, they would be like Crappie or Gizzard Shad in a pond and totally overrun it leaving millions of tiny, stunted fish....tough sale...no..only thing tough is grasping the concept of just how well tilapia do in ponds and complete the micro ecosystem in it.....

If it were a "tough sale", after my proving my tilapia work well in northern waters, virtually every fish farm in the area competed with me last year..only 3 years after I introduced my fish in the area because of the customer call volume wanting them....yet Only I have a pure strain, sizes and stocking method that works each and every time...This forum is full of success stories and goals being reached using Tilapia...


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## die4irish

when are you planning on delivering to NW Ohio? I live west of Toledo


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## hang_loose

Rainman, I know a lot of people who were more than happy (including me) with the tilapia you brought to Ohio.

There are before and after pictures on another site (Pond Boss) that are amazing. I probably got in trouble for posting their site but I brag about OGF also on other sites.


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## Luns

I was lucky enough to run across a guy who does fish consulting for ponds/lakes from New York and through our conversation it seems right now i dont need either. Sticking with the most effective but also keeping the cost very low, i think we have a plan in place. It was very interesting to hear the perspective of someone who does the studies and job is to get customers the biggest fish possible, or just promote a good ecosystem. I appreciate everyones perspective though and help in trying to point me in the right direction.


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## Rainman

die4irish said:


> when are you planning on delivering to NW Ohio? I live west of Toledo


I will be in Ohio on my first run of the season Wednesday and Thursday, 5/15 and 5/16.

I do not carry "extra" fish with me. In case someone would like to be a last minute add-on, I need to know a day or two ahead of delivery time to add the fish/stop in, but I will be making several weekly runs through OH this year. Last year's poor/mixed results from "competition" stockings exploded my orders totals this year and I will be building a fish farm in KY to meet future demands now.

Hang_Loose, I wish I could say it was me or my stocking method, but it is the simple fact that I have the only known pure strain of Blue Tilapia left....and in the case of this fish...Genetics are ALL that matters for great results.


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## Lundy

I have put tilapia in my pond the last two years with very good results.

Other than a couple of treatments for algae early before the water warms enough to put in the tilapia the algae is gone all year, the tilapia do a good job with that.

I am hoping there are consuming some of the bottom organic layer but haven't done a check to determine that for sure.

The spawn like crazy and it is easy to see bunches of tilapia in my pond all summer. I was concerned the first year that I would have a bunch of dead fish floating once the water cooled but have not seen more than 6-8 any year of the last two years. The bass and cats and apparently the few saugeye in the pond must take care of them when they get slow. The last two years it was into November before it got cold enough to kill them.

I HATE spraying chemicals in my pond, the tilapia have reduced that sustainably.


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## rustyfish

GS seem are short term and will mostly be eaten before they are full grown.
But if you have the money to stock them then they will help. 

BG are your safest bet, most big pond bass get big off bluegill so why not.

But if you want to really beef up the bass. I would be tempted to try shad. In a 3 acre pond full of big bass it should work. Worst case you end up with too many shad which is not as likely as everyone thinks. Oh darn, then you might have the opportunity to add some other sweet predators like Saugeye, Wipers or Pike to a pond that can support them. Once they reduce the shad start harvesting some of the predators. There is no other fish that will boost your bass like shad. But if you went with shad I would not remove any small bass because they will help keep the shad under control by eating them before they get big. Its extreme but it sounds like you want extreme bass.


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## die4irish

Rainman said:


> I will be in Ohio on my first run of the season Wednesday and Thursday, 5/15 and 5/16.
> 
> I do not carry "extra" fish with me. In case someone would like to be a last minute add-on, I need to know a day or two ahead of delivery time to add the fish/stop in, but I will be making several weekly runs through OH this year. Last year's poor/mixed results from "competition" stockings exploded my orders totals this year and I will be building a fish farm in KY to meet future demands now.
> 
> Hang_Loose, I wish I could say it was me or my stocking method, but it is the simple fact that I have the only known pure strain of Blue Tilapia left....and in the case of this fish...Genetics are ALL that matters for great results.


ok. Yeah I think it might be a little to early. Have to ceck the water temp in the pond. I do want to get some this year


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## die4irish

Hey Rainman @ $25 a lb how big do they average and what would be the average size fish per lb?


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## Dana.Birrell

Tilapia purely sounds like a case of, "We clean your pond and get eaten too!"

Is our climate perfect for keeping a constant spawn cycle going?


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## [email protected]

Dana.Birrell said:


> Tilapia purely sounds like a case of, "We clean your pond and get eaten too!"
> 
> Is our climate perfect for keeping a constant spawn cycle going?


They die off when temps drop in the fall but spawn pretty much continuously during the warmer months. They're mouth brooders so when they're holding fry they're not eating.


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## Rainman

Dana.Birrell said:


> Tilapia purely sounds like a case of, "We clean your pond and get eaten too!"
> 
> Is our climate perfect for keeping a constant spawn cycle going?


Tilapia spawning takes 2 major conditions...Water temps above 65* for pure Blue Tilapia (72* for all hybrids) and a photoperiod of at least 12 hours of daylight. Blue Tilapia spawn as often as every 3 weeks and hybrids every 4-6 weeks when conditions are met.

The Ohio Climate supports a nearly 3 season use of Tilapia with a pure strain of Blues being able to be stocked earliest and living longest in the climate. All hybrid Blues or other Tilapia species get stocked and die out 8-10 degrees warmer.


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