# Killing Cattails



## Guest (May 22, 2011)

There may already be a thread on this subject, if so I appologize. I am needing to kill cattails in a couple ponds that have a good fish population. I know that any Glyphosate product will kill the cattails, but I am worried about it killing the fish as well. I know Rodeo would probably be my best option since it has more surfactants in it and is approved for use around water, but I can not hardly justify the price unless it is my only option. Someone told me that they used a very diluted solution of Roundup and that it didnt harm any fish, but I find that hard to believe. Anyone out there have any suggestions??


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

I use Rodeo and it does a good job...Now somebody told me cows and goats will eat cattails. Anybody have any experience with these animals?


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## Fishin Finatic (Oct 22, 2010)

I use the generic of Roundup. I just spray the cattails with it when wind is down and no rain predicted for a few hours. It will kill right down to the root so if it only gets on one or two leaf stocks it kills the root and the other leaf stocks in that cluster. Has no negative effects on fish.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Glyphosate will not harm fish.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

This is debatable. At least there are studies that disagree. Google "roundup fish studies".


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

JamesT said:


> This is debatable. At least there are studies that disagree. Google "roundup fish studies".


I can find studies that claim water is fatal to lab mice. When it comes to glyphosate "studies", particularly those that specify the brand Roundup, be very careful what you believe. There are a lot of nut cases that devote much of their time trying to convince people that Monsanto workers are nothing short of evil. There's no basis for it what so ever.
Edit: I should note that when I say that gly will not harm fish, I mean when it's applied per the label.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

I understand what you are saying and to be honest, I'm not sure where I stand on the issue(I probably lean toward the treehugger opinion though). Yes there do appear to be a lot of "non-scientific" studies out there on the web claiming how bad it is. I would need to research it some more and even then I don't know what I'd think because there are conflicting reports. I do think it is safe to say that it can be detrimental under certain conditions. For example it may indirectly affect fish by affecting some of the things they eat, or being applied in low oxygen conditions. Anyways this study seems legit, but I have no idea what it means under real world conditions. For example, did they apply it per Monsanto's dosage instructions, or crank up the dosage? 

http://mutage.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/4/263.full


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

BTW here is the last paragraph/conclusion from the study.

"In conclusion, our data indicate that fish are among the sensitive aquatic organisms tested for some chemicals commonly used in lawn care and that measurements of cytogenetic and DNA damage are useful as screening tools to evaluate potential effects of chemicals on nontarget aquatic organisms and *clearly, more research on roundup genotoxicity in fish is needed to adequately protect this group*. "


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

At first glance it does seem legit. I say &#8220;at first glance&#8221;, because that&#8217;s about all the further I went.  The term &#8220;baffle them with BS&#8221; comes to mind, but maybe that&#8217;s normal for that sort of report. The way it was written, I just couldn&#8217;t force myself to read it all. Once thing that stood out to me is that they added what they called an &#8220;inert surfactant&#8221;. To me, in this sort of study, anything other than plain water can not be considered inert. The surfactant itself could have had an effect on the fish. In fact, the definition of a surfactant would lead me to believe it would be harmful to fish. But again, I basically just skimmed over that parts I could understand.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Well the references seem legit, and the journal seems legit. What does it really mean? I don't know. I really don't have the background necessary to figure it out.

I do know that my step brother lives in muirfield and there is a stream behind his house. As soon as it dries up many people there spray it with roundup to get rid of the "unsightly algae". Guess where that roundup ends up? In my favorite fishing hole. Then again, maybe the roundup helps negate the effect of all the fertilizer they use which causes the algae blooms that consume so much oxygen lol. Given a choice of roundup or no roundup in my honeyhole, I choose no roundup.


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## Taco (Jan 4, 2009)

The first thing that jumps out at me is the fish were subjected to 3 doses at three different rates...5, 10, and 15 parts per million over 6 days (144 hours). Considering there are 325,851 gallons per acre ft of water, that means to get the same dosage in a one acre pond that averages 8 feet deep you would have to add three treatments of straight Roundup of 13 gallons, 26 gallons, or 39 gallons. Sooooo, I guess I wouldn't use that much if I was you. 

In an unrelated study I determined I can get pretty drunk when I drink 20, 40, or 60 beers in a 6 hour period. Further, my wife really hates it when I do it three days in a row.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Roundup is terrible for the water, fish and mostly the amphibious creatures!!!!!!!!!..
That being said. If I want to kill some cattails I use *Aqua-PRO* it does a good job and I have yet to see any negative affects from it... Us common sense when spraying. It kill all plant life.. The are still no 4 headed frog's.. LOL Really at the lake the are still plenty of all the animals/insects/amphibians in the lake same # as there has been for years..

It is the people that have no common sense that ruin thing. LIKE the people that spray the creaks after they dry up. The farmers/or lawn guys that spray before a rain. That is what damages or waters. Just plain stupid people!!!!


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## JIMS SVT (Aug 19, 2004)

My pond was so full of catails when I moved here like 4 years ago. I bought some Aqua Pro and Cide Kick II that Jones fish farm suggested. It did the trick. Had to cut all the dead stuff sticking out of the water but I did that when there was ice on. Pond is beautiful now.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Kind of a repost,

The active ingredient, glyphosate, in Roundup and Rodeo/Aquapro is the same. The difference is in the surfactants and adjuvants. 

As far as economics: Rodeo/Aquapro contains almost 54% glyphosate so $100 for 2.5 gallons is pretty cheap compared to the super concentrate Roundup (the cheapest way to buy for the general public, even the mix sold to farmers is 48% I think) where a quart runs about $45 and it's about 50% glyphosate. You'll have to look hard for the super concentrate (lowe's is the only place I've found that stocks it) as most of the Roundup on store shelves is far less concentrated.

If you buy a 2.5 gallon jug of Rodeo, you're paying around $0.58 per ounce of glyphosate. If you buy the most economical concentrate of Roundup...you're paying $2.81 per ounce of glyphosate. Of course, you'll probably need to add an approved surfactant to the Rodeo...like Cide Kick II.

Why not use what you're supposed to?


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

wildman said:


> Roundup is terrible for the water, fish and mostly the amphibious creatures!!!!!!!!!..


 Let's keep one thing clear, Roundup the brand has more variations than a person can keep straight. Most have many additives, and when you see studies revolving around Roundup you need to keep that in mind. The active ingredient, glyphosate, hasn't been proven to harm any animal life when used at the correct rate. That's why it's the main ingredient in Aquapro.
You can buy generic glyphosate at many different locations, but you won't find many options at places like Lowes, just what most home owners would use. You can get it at 51% strength if you look, but there's no reason 41% won't work. When you mix it up it's exactly the same. Same thing with surfactants, you can find generic without. You just have to look in the right places, and even that's not too hard. Tractor Supply and Rural King carry it, as will any feed/seed store. Generic 41% gly right now is between $10-$20 per gallon for concentrate, depending on the exact brand and if it has surfactants.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Magis, the surfactants and adjuvants in the non-aquatic approved formulations is what causes the problems with aquatic life, not the glyphosate. 

It's kind of like saying red meat causes heart-disease when it's really the saturated fats in the meat.

You're right that you can get the straight stuff...but you've got to look hard and there is really no way to tell for sure what you're getting since they typically don't list what the "inactive ingredients" are.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Magis, the surfactants and adjuvants in the non-aquatic approved formulations is what causes the problems with aquatic life, not the glyphosate.
> 
> It's kind of like saying red meat causes heart-disease when it's really the saturated fats in the meat.
> 
> You're right that you can get the straight stuff...but you've got to look hard and there is really no way to tell for sure what you're getting since they typically don't list what the "inactive ingredients" are.


I think we may be saying the same thing, but in different ways. 
I should have ended my post with the statement that it makes the most sense to just buy the Aquapro.. Though it's not cheap, it's not that bad, assuming you don't have to buy 2.5 gallons.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

If you really want to knock them down quick, add a little Reward to Rodeo and Cide Kick...results in minutes and legal.


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## Fisherman123 (Apr 30, 2011)

Just a suggestion. leave some of the cattails. bluegill love to chill by the cattails. the bass do to or are close to it because of the bluegill. my grandpas pond has blue gill clustered by some cattails. he hasnt had a huge amount of cattails only 2 clusters.


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## Minnowhead (Jan 12, 2011)

Do you have a small cluster close to shore? Thinking outside the box, rent a small back hoe and dig them out? Might be fun!


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