# my opinions on the BIG cat tourneys



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

that tournament is so loaded with dishonest people , i would never fish it. i think jim is a great person and tries to run a good tournament, but i know there are dishonest people fishing in them tourneys. i was fishing one saturday night and watched 2 men in a boat running droplines in the stillwater creek and then watched jims weigh in the next morning the same guys won or took second the next morning, they had a large metal cage that they were sticking their cats in. those tournaments are supposed to be rod n reel only right??? these fish were not caught on rod n reel i guarantee that !! i THINK there are probably several other guys who do the same thing, i find it hard to believe that the same guys win the tournaments every month, eveybody has a bad day once in awhile right?? thats WAY TO MUCH MONEY on the line out there to expect people to be honest. thats why i stick to low entry fees in my tourneys , to try to keep it fun and fish more for the fun then the cash. heck, id fish tournaments that are for free , i fish to compete with other guys and have a good time. 

THIS IS JUST MY THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS ON JIMS TOURNEYS, AND IS NO WAY MEANT TO TRASH ON JIM OR HIS TOURNAMENTS

BRIAN


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Why not discuss with Jim, rather than bring it up here?


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

I agree with M Magis!

I have talked to Jim, and like he told me, it is hard for him to say someone is cheating unless he catches them. The last tourney I fished, I placed third. My best showing so far. One of my fish, had a nastry cut on its side. It was like that when I pulled it from the water. I don't know if it was from the flooded bushes it swam into while I was fighting it or if it was like that before it was on my hook. The fish was alive and well. Just had a cut on it. Someone could have said I cheated and the cut was from being on a limb line in shallow water. Hell I even put in on a 15 foot stringer so it would not be too close to the flooded bushes and what not against the bank. I know I caught it fair and square, but if someone would have said otherwise, I would have gone off.

That is why if the guys I know cheat were to try to enter a tourney I have, I will tell them no. I know my tourney's are small still and not a lot of money, but if I know you cheat, I will not let you in.


I love to fish Jim's tourney's. It is not always the same guys winning. I mean there are some guys who are in the money most times, but I think it is more due to the group fishing together than a single guy cheating. The one's I know cheat are always in the money. They think they are sly, but people know they cheat. I mean when a guy is supposedly fishing the river and everyone else comes in dirty and he is clean, that looks suspicious. It is just catchig them is the prob. It would be hard to go on his property and look at his creek.


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

i was simply responding to some comments made on one of my posts about jims tournaments. like i said jim is a good guy and tries to run a fair tournament. those were my opinions only, not something to live or die by thats for sure. lol i just know of people who cheat and wouldnt go throw my money away fishing against guys who fish for 3 days in advance to beat me. I WOULD NEVER CHEAT BUT ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT NOONE WOULD. come on thats very naive. some guys live off of that money for a month!!
have fun keep fishing in them if you think that you can honestly beat guys who fish for 3 days to beat you. im just voicing my opinion , i thought thats what these message boards were for. FREEDOM OF SPEECH ITS THE AMERICAN WAY !!
 

WHEN YOU LET PEOPLE RUN ALL OVER THE STATE THERE IS NO WAY YOU WILL EVER CATCH THEM CHEATING.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

No one said that there weren't cheaters out there. But again, this is the wrong place to discuss it. ALL tournaments have cheaters from time to time, so it's unfair to single out Jim's tournament. If you know of people cheating, you need to point them out to him.


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

I agree Jim should not be singled out. I let Jim know about what I found out.


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

As a point of interest:

The First Amendment of the US Constitution does not read:

OhioGameFishing.com shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech...

It actually leaves that to Congress.

Therefore, First Amendment rights do not apply on a private message board.

Additionally, Freedom of Speech rights do not provide for Freedom from People Disagreeing With You rights.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

It's too dang hard to prevent - cheaters are everywhere. That is exactly the reason many large paying tourneys require a polygraph if you're in the big $$$$.

What a shame! :mad

I don't fish tourneys, but if I did I'd report any and all chaeters to the tourney director immediately.


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## Action (Apr 8, 2004)

Thats the problem with most tournaments, either someone is cheating or more often sore losers are accusing somebody of cheating. Either way I don't need the frustration of fishing hard all day to be scorned later or beat by a cheat. I just do my own thing and let everyone else deal with those unneeded problems. Its a shame that people aren't more interestested in learning something you know or happy to see you win. Alot of cry babies out there.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote... "that tournament is so loaded with dishonest people"

I think thats a pretty bold statement to make.
2 dishonest people does not load the tourney with cheaters.
Did you notify Jim right away and let him know what you saw?
If not,you should have.
I am sure Jim would have taken some kind of action.
I am not saying people do not cheat in tournaments,but I will say this..Jim is a first class guy who will not tolerate cheating.
It takes proof though,and if he had it he would act on it,I am sure.
Did you guys ever think of what kind of impact these kinds of posts might have on Jim Corey?
Him and Darlene bust their butts to run a first class tournament.
This forum is not the place for slanderous accusations.


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## Hatchetman (Apr 13, 2004)

Amen Lewis !!!!!!!


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## Hatchetman (Apr 13, 2004)

Amen Lewis !!!!!!


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## Corey (Apr 5, 2004)

I've been hoping this thread would die away on it's own. Once again let me give my reasons for allowing anglers to fish any legal Ohio waters. Over the years I have fished Catfish tourneys in many locations. Most of these tourneys restricted anglers to a certain body of water. In nearly every case there were those anglers who either were accused of, or obviously did, go to another body of water to fish. (As an example, Atwood has a mostly red clay substrate with no black mud as is found in some strip pits, etc.. Anglers would show up for weigh-in covered with black mud and claim to have fallen into a strip pit while stopping to take a leak. Although everyone knew what was happening, accusations couldn't be made without incontrovertible proof.) These events never ended up attracting big numbers of anglers. Catfish tourneys on our small local lakes have to allow bank fishing or remain very small, as far as attendance. Unless Cat tourneys are run as are most Walleye and Bass tourneys, with fishing allowed from boats only, where everyones' vehicle and trailer is in a parking lot, or if the events can be held at private, fenced in lakes, there is NO way to police and event and be sure that anglers aren't sneaking away to fish their own "honey holes". When Darlene and I first began hosting the Cripple Creek events we decided that the only fair way was to allow everyone the same options; to fish where they wanted. A couple of years ago I tried a Tappan Only event just to prove that it couldn't be policed. We had 162 entries at that event. I spent the entire night in a boat with a spotlight, going from boat to boat, and checking on shore fishing groups that had used boats to acces their spots. Two of the boys spent the entire night patrolling the roads and checking everyone with road access. We asked for the names and entry numbers of everyone we talked to and checked them off our lists. We were able to account for only 99 out of 162. This left 63 anglers unaccounted for. Were all 63 of these anglers fishing without lights in areas I missed with the spotlight? Were they at other lakes or rivers? Who knows......
Over the years we have disqualified many entrants for violations of one or more of our rules. We disqualified another at the last event. Once disqualified a person can never again enter one of our tournaments. We have added rules over the years as we've seen the need to protect against things we hadn't thought of. Can any of the people who are upset with the way our events are run come up with a solution? I would be overjoyed to hear something that would work. I would adopt their ideas in a heartbeat. I KNOW that here are still those who will cheat. I spent hours on the night of our June event in the weeds at Clendenning with a spotlight waiting to spotlight a suspected cheater. Believe me, I'd rather have been home in bed. 
Now to "proof". Proof isn't "he told me", or "I heard that guy say", or "He bragged that..." Proof is either Darlene, myself, or some official representative of Cripple Creek Bait & Tackle actually observing a rule infraction. Once a suspected cheater is called to my attention I can try to come up with a way to catch them. I may not be able to do so the first time I try. It may take a long time.......but I won't quit trying. Cheaters piss me off, as much for knowing that they think they are getting over on me as for the cheating itself. As was mentioned above, many tourneys make arrangements with local State Highway Patrol or other local law enforcement agencies for lie detector tests to be given. These aren't cheap, running from $300-$500 per test. The rules in most cases state that the "accuser" will put up the money and get it back if they are proven to be right. This prevents frivolous accusations. I have mentioned the lie detector tests to some of the people who are involved in these latest accusations, and so far the only ones who have said OK to taking the test are the "accused". There is a vast legal difference between "believing" that someone is cheating and being able to "prove" it. We can't even think of not allowing a suspected cheater to enter an event. Darlene and I have worked too long and too hard to allow someone to sue us for defamation of character. It's happened in local Bass events already.
As an afterthought.......Tonto and I have fished in many Catfish events, some of which were fished by anglers suspected of cheating, and we've had many middle-of-the-night discussions on the subject. Our conclusions are that there can be a great feeling of satisfaction to be gotten by working harder, doing your homework, and beating the cheaters ethically, by simply out-fishing the SOB's. Thanks for everyones' input on this subject. Let's just let this thread die a natural death. If it's still hanging around in a couple of days I'll lock it.


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

Well put Jim. I know you guys have your eyes out. That is why I continue to fish your tourney's. I love them! I am glad I placed last time knowing I did it without cheating. It is hard for a guy like me to catch over 20 lbs of channel in just 3 fish in one night. 

I remember one tourney where my step brother and buddy were fishing and they said you stopped and asked if they were in the tourney. I bet they did not realize it was Tappan only. Good thing they were fishing there!


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## Corey (Apr 5, 2004)

We patrol during each tourney and I ask if anglers are entered. It may not have been the event we limited to Tappan. That was a couple of seasons ago and we made sure everyone who registerd was aware of the restriction. These days we make a swing around Tappan, hit Clendenning, and go other places if we have heard anything we are concerned about. One of the boys always has a full tank of gas so as to be able to follow anyone we are suspicious of. We no longer stay up all night. Just too darn old for that, Ha!


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

WTG Jim... 2 awesome post !!


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## Action (Apr 8, 2004)

Jim don't make a living off these tourneys. He does all he can to keep them fair. If you see somebody cheating and then go to the weigh in and don't say a word. Why would you bring it up on here ? Come on Brian you live right down the road from Jim, if somebodies really cheating it's going to be hard to catch them after its publicly announced. I would fish anything Corey has going on and be content knowing there's nobody out there trying harder to do the right thing. I hope this thread has no bearing on the tourneys or it may even scare off a cheater or two I hope.


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

as i said before the post i made was not in anyway to attack jim, i think he is one hell of a guy. i wasnt going to cause a scene at a weigh in for a tournament that i wasnt even fishing in, i just wanted to make jim aware that there are a few guys who were running lines from a small green alum. boat on the stillwater then weighing in fish. i think jim does everything in his power to make sure things are run fair and professionally. im just saying with the large amounts of money that are on the line there to be careful, things can get out of hand in a hurry. there are alot of people who will do anything to make a dollar. i apologize to jim corey if he feels that i meant this in anyway to hurt him or his tournaments. i would never do that, i buy bait and tackle there on a regular basis and promote his business to everyone that i know who fishes. im simply saying that when one or two guys win regularly maybe those are the ones he should follow around to see if they are legit. GOOD LUCK WITH THE TOURNAMENTS AND I REALLY HOPE THIS POST DIES NOW!!! i'll say it again jim im sorry this post wasnt meant to do harm, someone commented about your tourneys on one of my posts and they claimed to know guys who were cheating and i simply responded to that. some how the blame got passed to me , check my post im sure you will find what im talking about.


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## Corey (Apr 5, 2004)

I know you weren't attacking me and you made that clear from the first. I appreciate that. Just the fact that this is on a public forum is what gets to me. Announcing to the public that there are suspected cheaters just serves to warn those possible cheaters so that they can be more careful not to get caught. Just as locks only serve to keep honest people honest, and don't deter those whose intent is to break in anyway, this nisn't going to stop the cheating, only make the cheaters harder to catch. As I said before, please, if any of you have any ideas as to how our tourneys could be run to minimize the possibility of cheating, let me know in person or in a PM or e-mail. I'm locking the thread now. Good luck out on the water!!!


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