# wasted eggs



## MasterKraft (Apr 5, 2014)

The more and more pictures I see of peoples river catches the more impressed I am with the comraderie of the sportsmen. Fish well.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

This topic comes up repeatedly on OGF in the Spring. It's legal as long as they are not snagged. ODNR is fine with the numbers being harvested. The river spawn results in a very small percentage of the overall spawn. 

If you feel this way, turn the hens loose. Please don't ridicule others for doing what is legal.

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## Redhunter1012 (Feb 6, 2006)

But it's ok for everybody to slam the heck out of them on the ice on Lake Erie. I love that double standard, although I know you didn't say that


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

If the DNR cared they would shut down the river to all walleye fishing in the spring. Most of the fish are lined and not actually caught. Too many people including the DNR are making too much money to close the tradition of the run. What people keep on thier stringer is thier business. The only thing that you can control is what you personally do.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

Redhunter1012 said:


> But it's ok for everybody to slam the heck out of them on the ice on Lake Erie. I love that double standard, although I know you didn't say that


Do doubt about the big hens killed on the ice this year.


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## Countryboyforlyfe (Mar 11, 2014)

Ppl can keep whatever they legally catch who care about what others think!?!? I know if I catch it I'm eating it!

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## Gills63 (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm willing to believe every walleye that you have ever seen hanging on a wall was a female. 

Its no different then people pulling bass off there nests.

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## 10lbsorbust (Feb 16, 2014)

MasterKraft said:


> The more and more pictures I see of peoples river catches I see the more shocked i am at how many guys keep the big hens. On top of that not bothering to push out her eggs. Remind me not to let out my secret bass holes.


I guess I am one of the few who understand what you are saying. I am not a walleye fisherman, but largemouth hardcore. But in typical OGF fashion people have their own take on a situation and try and flex their keyboard muscles. My take on what you said, I have no problem with people keeping the females, its legal, but why not push out the eggs before you leave for the day? Does an extra minute hurt, no i dont think so. The fisherman still keeps the fish and the river will get the fish's offsrping. Win win in my eyes, dont get caught up in all the drama....


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## no_luck_again (Mar 25, 2010)

Really not trying to start anything...but what good would it do to push the eggs out of the fish. They are not fertilized so it's not like they are going to hatch right? Not a biologist but I have always wondered why people say that. 

I guess I would lean toward releasing those big girls myself but I can't hate on someone for doing what's legal if they can sleep alright at night.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

10lbsorbust said:


> I guess I am one of the few who understand what you are saying. I am not a walleye fisherman, but largemouth hardcore. But in typical OGF fashion people have their own take on a situation and try and flex their keyboard muscles. My take on what you said, *I have no problem with people keeping the females, its legal, but why not push out the eggs before you leave for the day? Does an extra minute hurt, no i dont think so. The fisherman still keeps the fish and the river will get the fish's offsrping*. Win win in my eyes, dont get caught up in all the drama....


Is there some documentation that you can provide that would back that up? 

There is no drama here beyond what's written by those who "feel" the fishery is being harmed by keeping the females and write condemning commentary aimed at those who do.


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## MuskieDan (Nov 8, 2012)

10lbsorbust said:


> I guess I am one of the few who understand what you are saying. I am not a walleye fisherman, but largemouth hardcore. But in typical OGF fashion people have their own take on a situation and try and flex their keyboard muscles. My take on what you said, I have no problem with people keeping the females, its legal, but why not push out the eggs before you leave for the day? Does an extra minute hurt, no i dont think so. The fisherman still keeps the fish and the river will get the fish's offsrping. Win win in my eyes, dont get caught up in all the drama....


I agree that releasing big females should be a habit of any fisherman who can turn back around and just catch a few jacks to replace her. I feel the same way on the ice or anywhere else. Keeping your PB walleye to mount or a few big ones because you're proud is understandable, but repeating limits of 27"+ fish is ridiculous if you're culling your smaller fish. I usually keep silent about this issue because everyone on this site seems to jump in and circle jerk around how it's legal and doesn't affect the population, but nobody is a fisheries biologist and nothing factual ever gets stated. I have to interject here though and say that squeezing the eggs out does NOTHING. Fish are not mammals or birds, females must lay their eggs unfertilized into a gravel nest where they remain stationary while the males fertilize them. They do not mate, the eggs in the female are not fertilized and will not hatch. If you catch a female and want her to spawn, release her. Honestly, I don't know if it has an impact on the overall population or not, but seeing thousands of those big females laying on the snow this winter each day just felt wrong to my senses as a fisherman. However, it is legal and if you want to do it nobody is going to stop you. Just be aware that it offends some people and if you post a report don't be surprised if someone gets emotional and attacks it.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

I figure that angler success in the river, even on a "decent" day is about 65%. Sure, the regulars will get their fish but the average Joe just doesn't on most days. 

People see all those guys standing down there elbow to elbow and they think that the poor walleye don't have a chance. If you fished down there, and tried it...and saw what goes on, and figured out that it isn't as easy or stupidly simple to get your limit like so very many make it out to be....maybe then and only then could you realize that "closing the spawn because it is hurting the population" is not really an accurate statement at all. 

We might be lining the fish during the early parts of the run, but at least the hook is remotely close to the mouth of the fish (i.e. in the lip) vs. what I have seen happen on the lake on the reefs. A true test would be for the entire lake to go to single hooks from March and April. I've jig fished a lot over the past 6 or 8 years or so, and there isn't a guy out there with a rod in his hand that doesn't have a stinger on the back of that 3/4oz purple hair jig, or a double treble on that blade bait or even three trebles on those Reef Runner 800's or DDHJ's. 

I can count on one hand the number of female walleyes I have caught legally in the Maumee river over the last 20 years. Four...yes, exactly four...and I released three, and kept one, and that one I kept was by mistake as she was my 4th fish of the evening and time was running out. She was only about 19" long and I didn't realize it until I went to put the knife to her at home. I can't even tell you how long it has been since I saw a guy with 4 females on a stringer in the river. 

Compare all of that to the early spring trolling, and late fall/early winter trolling that I have done over the past 10 years. The majority of the fish that were caught and killed were females. Dang near all of them. I know a lot of guys play catch and release with the big girls, but I also know of a lot of guys who will jig up their "almost" limit of jacks on the reefs in the spring then head out to deeper water to cull out those jacks with big females.

So please, respect the fishermen from the river. It's as close to great walleye fishing as many of us can get every year without having to buy a boat, ask a buddy to take us out on theirs, or pay for a charter. We aren't hurting a thing down there, and if the ODNR put as many boats on the reefs as they do in the trees and brush piles along the Maumee each spring, I bet things would change on the 'ole jiggin boats too. 

Good fishing to all of you...this is my favorite time of year.


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## rutnut245 (Jan 18, 2009)

This subject gets hashed and rehashed every year, at least for the 45 that I've been fishing the run. It's a fact that only a small percentage spawn in the rivers to begin with. Obviously the numbers in the lake aren't what they were in the 70's & 80's but that doesn't have anything to do with fishing the rivers during spawn. I'm no biologist either but the people who make the decisions concerning the fishery are. I can assure you if fishing during the spawn was affecting the overall populations, changes would be made.
If you don't want to keep prespawn fish that's your own personal decision to make. If it affected the fishery we would have seen the results many years ago. This topic always seems to degenerate into a "My ethics are better than your ethics " pissin match that makes no sense. Btw, they bit very good this morning.


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## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

I am in the middle of becoming a fisheries biologist and i will tell you for sure if you push the eggs out it will do no good at all ever. The eggs have to be deposited on the river bottom and then fertilized. All that will happen if you squeeze them out is they will drift down the river.


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## mrw2713 (Mar 30, 2014)

On aside note is there any.way the the fisheries could set up shop and extract the eggs to be taken back to the fishery and fertilize them? You would think they could possibly even milk the jacks? I'm not in any way shape or form against fishing the run but I have wondered myself what it does to the populatoon.


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## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

mrw2713 said:


> On aside note is there any.way the the fisheries could set up shop and extract the eggs to be taken back to the fishery and fertilize them? You would think they could possibly even milk the jacks? I'm not in any way shape or form against fishing the run but I have wondered myself what it does to the populatoon.


i believe the dnr shocks up females for the saugeye program from the rivers it makes alot of sense that they could have guys donate especially if they are keeping the fish anyway.


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## MasterKraft (Apr 5, 2014)

I don't recall condemning anyone. I fish the river almost every day of the run. I love it, it is like nothing else. I also have a boat and get them on the humps. Furthermore I also know that only 2% of eries walleye spawn in the river.with all the males fertilizing the river the chances aren't terrible to get released eggs. Sounds like all you jumpin my back have a guilty conscience. Cleaning up 4 million eggs after filleting my catch isn't my idead of fun. According to all your mouths I am not supposed to have my right to an opinion. Good luck fishin, sportsmen


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## MasterKraft (Apr 5, 2014)

Yep. I just checked my thread and didn't see the slamming I'm being accused of, easy guys its just a thought. That is what this site is about, right? Or am I wrong again?


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I am not a biologist either, but talk to one that is actively involved (his job)in the lake Erie fishery on a regular basis.

There is no shortage of viable fertilized walleye eggs for lake Erie. 

For Lake Erie, more eggs does not equate into more walleye recruitment

Here is a little food for thought. Creel surveys have shown that 90%+ of the fish caught in the spring on the reefs jig fishing are males. These same creel surveys have shown that the number of fish that are females caught while trolling at the same time period is in excess of 80%. This same female catch ratio applies to the central basin during the summer for those trolling. If the DNR ever needed to provide regulation to protect only the female walleye the most effective would not have anything to do with shutting down the river or reef jig fishing during the spawn. It would revolve around fishing method. Not saying they would ever need to or entertain such an idea but the data is the data and can not be disputed.


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## keith_r (Jun 18, 2010)

pushing the eggs out does nothing for recruitment..
the eggs have to be fertilized almost immediately, since they harden in the water.. 
now if you had a male on your stringer, and squeezed the eggs into a container (and the eggs are mature enough) with a little lake water, and you were able to immediately fertilze by squeezing your male, you might fertilize some eggs.. but they're still not "planted".. 
ya see where i'm going with this?


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I believe there are reported to be 20,000,000 walleye in Lake Erie. Now, lets say 30,000 fishermen catch 4 fish each which equals 1,200,000. That amount of walleye taken amount to six percent of the available population!
Believe me, there is more concern about the algae problem than anything else.


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## MasterKraft (Apr 5, 2014)

Just curious, do the hens leave post-it notes for the jacks for directions? Last I heard the hens came up well before the jacks .


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

MasterKraft said:


> Just curious, do the hens leave post-it notes for the jacks for directions? Last I heard the hens came up well before the jacks .


I am very certain that much of what you have heard is mistaken.


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## rutnut245 (Jan 18, 2009)

mrw2713 said:


> On aside note is there any.way the the fisheries could set up shop and extract the eggs to be taken back to the fishery and fertilize them? You would think they could possibly even milk the jacks? I'm not in any way shape or form against fishing the run but I have wondered myself what it does to the populatoon.


They were shocking fish for egg collection last Wednesday below the State st. bridge. Years ago the d.n.r. would walk the banks with 5 gallon buckets and strip eggs and milt from fishermen who volunteered their catch. There are still a few old timers on the Maumee that carry buckets to strip their fish, mix it around with milt and a little river water, and dump it back in.

I myself, have caught very few legal females over the years, until this year. I have gone at least 5-6 yrs and before now, could have counted them on both hands. I fish every weekday during the run and most fish have been hens so far. It was the same on the lake ice fishing. We moved all over including the reefs and close to shore and never did catch many jacks.


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## 10lbsorbust (Feb 16, 2014)

KaGee said:


> Is there some documentation that you can provide that would back that up?
> 
> There is no drama here beyond what's written by those who "feel" the fishery is being harmed by keeping the females and write condemning commentary aimed at those who do.


No I do not have any documentation as I stated clearly in my first post I am not a walleye fisherman, The only thing I know about them is they taste good! That said I remember one time years ago being up at the maumee run and someone landed what was a 12+ pound female. Everyone obviously gathered around and someone came up with the idea of dumping all of her eggs into a bucket getting a jack and putting the sperm in the bucket as well mixing it and releasing it back into the river. And let's be honest, there's always drama on ogf.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

> Just curious, do the hens leave post-it notes for the jacks for directions? Last I heard the hens came up well before the jacks .


In my experience, the biggest jacks of the run show up first, then come the females, then come the smaller jacks. The big girls are in and out...they do not linger, but the jacks tend to hang around and wait for more females. The largest walleye I have ever landed in the river was caught during the first week of May two years ago. She was dumping eggs while my buddy took the picture. Not a hog in comparison to what a lot of guys are catching these days, but still a very nice fish in my opinion. 










Like Jim Stedke says a lot on the big lake forum...the spawn happens on and off for a period of a few weeks every year. I've caught limits in early March and as late as early June in the Maumee. You just never know.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

MasterKraft said:


> The more and more pictures I see of peoples river catches I see the more shocked i am at how many guys keep the big hens. On top of that not bothering to push out her eggs. Remind me not to let out my secret bass holes.


 First things first..masterkraft, welcome to ogf! Second...like everybody else says(especially the guys that have been members for 5-10 years)...it's really not affecting the populations to keep some females from the river, thei ice season, or ANY other time of the year...I get it though..you see a bunch of pics on here of egg laden females being kept from the river and it makes ya think the walleye population is being destroyed..but facts are facts..very small % of fish spawn in rivers..and only a small% of those are being kept..and there are regs to keep the population in check...just try to be a little more cautious in your posts or at least get the facts before you post a comment that's gonna stir the pot..most all of these Lake Erie guys are excellent sportsmen that follow the regs set in place 


Good luck fishin out there man!


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## HatersGonnaHate (Jun 4, 2013)

Before making my comment i just want to say that i really have no problem with keeping females as long as the population isnt affected. Its legal as of now so if you want to do it then do it. I do however think that the comments about how only a small population of walleye spawn in the river comments are misleading. 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100729122403.htm

According to this scientific study nearly all the walleye that spawn in the maumee were born in the maumee so the lake spawn really doesnt have any bearing on the river spawn. 

Almost no walleye stray from other sites to spawn at the Maumee," she said. "So if the Maumee is ever overfished, it is unlikely to recover, since fish won't be coming in from other sites to replenish the population.

This is a quote from the article that might be a little concerning in the future. The run gets more and more popular every year with more and more fish being taken every year and the spawns have not been the greatest. I am sure the DNR knows more about the population then i do but i also know that the love the $$$ that comes in during the run. Just something to think about in the future


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## rutnut245 (Jan 18, 2009)

HGH, I don't doubt that study at all but it's still true that the vast majority of Lake Erie fish spawn in the lake. In 45 yrs of fishing both rivers, I haven't seen much of a decline,yet. During the heyday of the early 80's I've seen fish eggs pushed up on the beach from a hard Northeaster that were nearly knee high as far as the eye could see. It couldn't have been good for the hatch but we still had a hatch.


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## HatersGonnaHate (Jun 4, 2013)

rutnut245 said:


> HGH, I don't doubt that study at all but it's still true that the vast majority of Lake Erie fish spawn in the lake. In 45 yrs of fishing both rivers, I haven't seen much of a decline,yet. During the heyday of the early 80's I've seen fish eggs pushed up on the beach from a hard Northeaster that were nearly knee high as far as the eye could see. It couldn't have been good for the hatch but we still had a hatch.


Yeah it is very true that the vast majority spawn in the lake but the study says that has nothing to do with the population that enters the river. I guarantee you that the population that enters the river has declined since the 80's. Whether its enough to be worried about i have no idea and only the DNR and scientists probably know that. The study proved that there could be 10 billion walleye in lake erie but on a certain number of those are going to go upriver and that population is fish that were born in the river. Like i said earlier its legal to keep whatever now and to keep 4 walleye. Just something to think about for the future.


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## josh617 (Jan 28, 2005)

Walleye masago!


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Btw... that was a thesis, and was written in 2010. 

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## HatersGonnaHate (Jun 4, 2013)

it was based off research and science. The fact that is was written in 2010 is irreverent. Information doesnt become false just because it was written 4 years ago. As long as the resource is maintained in a way that it is available in the near and distant future i dont really care. I just like to fish. I dont even need to keep them. Just enjoy being outdoors fishing.


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## MasterKraft (Apr 5, 2014)

Ok, now that everyone's awake lol, how was the river today? I took the day off in search of some crappie with no luck. It had to be blowin like heck down that way. Thanx for the warm welcome guys. Good luck on the water.


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## BornWithGills (Feb 26, 2006)

BFG awesome post!


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## guppygill (May 8, 2004)

Mastercraft, you are actually slamming us, your stating that your shocked, that we don't have the courtesy of dumping the eggs, and stating never telling us about your bass holes, you are actually criticizing us. You could have worded your "opinion" a different way.


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## MasterKraft (Apr 5, 2014)

Wow! Take it as you will. I geuss I assumed people could sense the joke about the bass holes. I geuss not! Maybe I could have said I'm surprised at how many people keep females. I know a lot of guys that release them. I am aware of the laws, I geuss I consider female releasing an unwritten law. Wrong again. I've been fishing since I was 4 which makes 37 years of fishing this isn't my first day on the lake. Keep what you want. Carrying 4 fish full of eggs around adds a lot of weight on your shoulder. It also makes a big ass mess on the fillet table. But keep on crucifying me brothers of the water, won't change my " opinion".


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## Baba Ganoush (Oct 17, 2013)

ShortDrift,recalculate your math. 30,000x4 ain't 1,200,000. How about 120,000?


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

HatersGonnaHate said:


> Before making my comment i just want to say that i really have no problem with keeping females as long as the population isnt affected. Its legal as of now so if you want to do it then do it. I do however think that the comments about how only a small population of walleye spawn in the river comments are misleading.
> 
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100729122403.htm
> 
> ...


Let's say that the premise you've presented is an accurate one about only Maumee-born fish spawn in the river (which for the record, I can't say I agree with). My unscientific opinion is that the resident fish have been increasing in numbers, even with the increase in angling pressure during the run. I caught a pretty significant amount of walleye all through the summer and fall last year (all C&R'ed). It was more than the last few years combined. I don't think the Maumee is in danger of being overfished.


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## DeathFromAbove (Oct 21, 2008)

The main effect on the walleye spawn every year in Erie is the severity of the spring storms and winds. Nice calm spring, lotsa baby walleyes and visa-versa. You could throw bombs in the river every day and it wouldnt affect the lake Erie walleye population. You're not gonna help it either by milking fish, but thats a personal response to the situation, so if it makes you feel better, by all means do it. Same goes for the females. I personally dont like eating the big fish, so back they go. The little jacks taste better.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

For those of you wanting to know, the fishing in both the Maumee and Sandusky is very good right now. The crowds will be stupid this weekend, and good luck finding a place to park given that the water is still high. 

But no matter what...fish are coming out. Get after 'em.


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## ShaneMC (Nov 27, 2012)

MasterKraft, seems like your bored and want to stir the pot on OGF. Seems like that's all OGF is all about now a days, complaining and conflicts. You have your opinion, and you know what they say... opinions are like a holes, Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. 

Fish Well.


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## Saws21 (Jul 1, 2008)

People that say if you would "push" the eggs out that they wouldn't get fertilized are wrong. There are variables yes, such as, is the female "flowing" her eggs? Which means does she give eggs with little "pushing or rubbing", you all know what I'm talking about. Sometimes landing a female and she spews eggs all over the place. That is what we refer to as flowing. If she is hard and you would push her eggs out, you'd have to push/squeeze extremely hard. And there is a reason she isn't flowing. Egg maturity, etc. Walleyes are not nest spawners, so anyone that says they must lay their eggs in a gravely/sandy nest are also wrong. There is so much flow in the Maumee, those eggs do not stay on the bottom in one spot. They drift or move with the current. Actually, if the eggs just laid on the bottom all on top of each other, they'd die. When we hatch walleye/saugeye, we are adding water into a jar 24/7 to "roll" the eggs to keep them moving. The eggs have to have separation to allow them to breathe. Also if the female would be flowing and you'd spend her eggs for her in the river, there is a chance they'd be fertilized. There are so many jacks in the river that the water is saturated with milt (sperm). The catch is.... The eggs will close up where sperm can't fertilize it in 90 seconds. After 90 seconds, the egg can't be fertilized. Back in the old days, the DNR used to go up to the rivers during the day and would ask fisherman to let them take the females eggs to fertilize and take back to the Hatcheries. But the walleye/saugeye programs were ALOT smaller than they are now. Now days, we need alot of eggs. And walleyes want to naturally come into the river and spawn more after dark, plus no fisherman to deal with while maneuvering the electro-fishing boats. (Don't need to shock any fisherman! lol) Hope this helps you all and if you have anymore questions gimmie a shout and I'll see if I can answer them. If any of you get a chance to go to any of the Open Houses at any of the State Fish Hatchery's, you should go. It's very interesting and informative.
Thanks guys,
Saws21


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## bm7 (Feb 11, 2013)

bass on the nests are usually males


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## Deadeyedeek (Feb 12, 2014)

As the 30yr debate goes on...been on the lake-river for 50+yrs. watched thoudands of eyes taken of the river(lots of females) dosent it seem funny, there are more walleyes now for everyone to enjoy! So if taking soooooo many egg ladden females was so bad, why are there so many fish? Hate to smash the pro-liffers, but proofs in the pudding!!!!


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## BASmead (Jan 11, 2008)

I can second what Bucketmouth said about the resident Walleye numbers being up. I don't even participate in the run, but I caught a bunch of em at MaryJane last year, versus only a few over the previous 20 years.. nothin too big, but still a welcome bite every time. What do you suppose that's all about?

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## Guest (Apr 14, 2014)

We are in the midst of many years of poor hatches. I just hope the ODNR is right and it doesn't effect the production. I personally release the big hens.


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