# Pistol caliber selection



## PoleSnatcher (Apr 6, 2004)

I'm somewhat new to pistols and was planning on getting a .357 revolver. (dad used to have one I shot all the time)

Now I'm beginning to look at Glock semi autos and am not sure what caliber. It will be primerly a self defense weapon in case of the unthinkable. I have plenty of long guns but no hand gun.


Any advice is greatly appreciated guys!!!!


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## HCF (Apr 7, 2005)

For defense I would look at 40 or 45cal, pure stopping/knockdown power is what you want.


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## smallieguy (Apr 7, 2004)

Take a long look at a .38 super. Very impressive.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

I will go with the old standby if your set on a Glock and say 9MM maybe a Glock 17, 9MM ammo is all over the place at very reasonable prices for you to be able to practice with, they make 2 or 3 different models in 9MM for you to chose from as well, Good Luck with whatever you decide on.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Have you been around guns? If your unsure or less experienced, I would say a revolver is the way to go and a .357 makes a great self defense caliber. Look at barrel length, size, weight, etc... Get something your comfortable with. You may only have 5 or 6 shots, but all you have to do is pull the trigger (as long as you get a double action & I'm sure you would for your situation)


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

for home defense i have a ruger 357, but for carry i would even look in to the .380.auto . shortdrift has a bersa(lama) .380. nice piece for about $300.00.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

i had a glock 17, now shooting a glock 19


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

Take a look at Springfields XD's Very nice auto and priced well. Vances Shooter Supplies has the XD compact in 9mm and 40 cal for $419.00 also offering 6 months same as cash. http://vancesshooterssupplies.com/user/index.php


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## Shaun Frame (Mar 27, 2006)

PoleSnatcher said:


> I'm somewhat new to pistols and was planning on getting a .357 revolver. (dad used to have one I shot all the time)
> 
> Now I'm beginning to look at Glock semi autos and am not sure what caliber. It will be primerly a self defense weapon in case of the unthinkable. I have plenty of long guns but no hand gun.
> 
> ...


Planning on getting a .357 revolver......now beginning to look at Glock....

What about a Glock G-32 or G-33 in .357 SIG?

The .357 SIG cartridge is the semi-auto ballistic equivalent of the .357 magnum revolver cartridge in a lighter weight, more compact, and easier to conceal package with more than twice the capacity of any revolver.

I've been carrying a G-32 for a long time now, and it serves in this role extremely well.

It sounds like just what you were looking for.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

Orlando said:


> Take a look at Springfields XD's Very nice auto and priced well. Vances Shooter Supplies has the XD compact in 9mm and 40 cal for $419.00 also offering 6 months same as cash. http://vancesshooterssupplies.com/user/index.php


The XDs are also very nice handguns and will save you some $$$, I shot one at a indoor range a couple months back and they are a very smooth handgun.


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## ltfd596 (Apr 15, 2005)

I carry a glock model #27. It is a .40 caliber. I absolutly love it. I was always a fan of the 9mm, but the .40 has a lot more knock down power.

The model #27 is a sub compact, i.e. VERY small. It is perfect for CCW. If you are going to keep it in the house and not carry, get the compact of full size, it just makes for easier handling. But for CCW, the sub compact is the only way to go.


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## welts (May 8, 2005)

I sure like my Kimber in 45 Cal. welts-mskckr


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## ncraft150 (Apr 5, 2004)

The key to buying a handgun is what you are comfortable with. It will be different for everyone. Glock is an awesome gun. I had a 27 but it was just to small for my hand and it wasnt comfortable to me so I traded for something I was comfortable shooting. For defence Id get the largest caliber you are comfortable shooting as well as the most comfortable frame. There are plenty of different good brands to choose from.


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## PoleSnatcher (Apr 6, 2004)

thanks for the replies guys

I have been around guns plenty H2O but I have never owned a pistol. Shot a few of them though. I've always been more of a "huntin" long gun and a bow type of guy. Now I'm thinking of trying something different plus having something for self defense if need be


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

If youre serious about getting a handgun, I would like to make a suggestion to you. 
All the guns listed above are good for the folks using them. Everyone has there own opinion based on THEIR weapon(s) selections and experience with them. Go to a gun range in your area that has gun rentals and shoot a bunch of different guns. Shoot revolvers and semi autos and then pick the one that feels and fits YOU the best. I would not recommend any handgun smaller than a .38 for self defense. Thats my personal opinion. 9mm is a bit too fast and has a tendency to over penetrate, again, my opinion (based on facts). My personal preference would be a 1911 model in .45, but thats just me. Hope this helps.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

ltfd596 said:


> I carry a glock model #27. It is a .40 caliber. I absolutly love it. I was always a fan of the 9mm, but the .40 has a lot more knock down power.
> 
> The model #27 is a sub compact, i.e. VERY small. It is perfect for CCW. If you are going to keep it in the house and not carry, get the compact of full size, it just makes for easier handling. But for CCW, the sub compact is the only way to go.


i carry the same gun in the summer(G-27), but all winter i've been making nice with the glock 23. sweet auto. my vote is for the .40 cal. as stated eariler the 9mm is too fast IMO for stopping an attacker. then again i have a fondness for the .40 cal

any gun is better than no gun!!!


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

ezbite said:


> as stated eariler the 9mm is too fast IMO for stopping an attacker.


what do you mean too fast? 15 hydrashocks outta my g19 will stop anything...


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

Too fast means that the projectile is traveling to fast to stop when hitting a target; it instead passes through even when using hollow point cartridges. If center mass on a human bad guy is the target, the 9mm round has a tendency to pass through hitting another (possibly innocent) person. It has been know to pass through walls and injure or kill someone on the other side. The .40 is a larger round and is slower. Typically it will expand inside the target and is not as prone to over penetration and pass through as the 9mm. Most LEO agencies have changed from the .9mm to either a .40 or a .45 for this very reason. Hope this helps.


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

In reference to the last post BigV explained it well and that is exactly why our sniper team is switching to a slower 308 round. The round they are currently using is way to fast and like stated, they are afraid of injuring/killing a hostage or others in the danger zone.


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## Shaun Frame (Mar 27, 2006)

Toxic said:


> In reference to the last post BigV explained it well and that is exactly why our sniper team is switching to a slower 308 round. The round they are currently using is way to fast and like stated, they are afraid of injuring/killing a hostage or others in the danger zone.


But isn't the .308 itself much faster than the "too fast" 9mm (or for that matter the .40 S&W or .45 ACP)? 

Did "your" sniper team slow the .308 rounds down to sub 1,100 fps so it isn't "way too fast&#8221; in the &#8220;danger zone&#8221;?

Aren&#8217;t some .40 and .45 rounds even faster than 9mm rounds? 

What about subsonic 9mm 147gr. loads that are the same velocity as 180gr. 40 S&W, or 200 gr. .45 ACP loads?

It is generally accepted as fact in law enforcement circles that the most effective duty round ever widely issued was the .357 magnum revolver cartridge loaded with a 125 gr. JHP @ 1,450 fps. Wouldn&#8217;t this be &#8220;too fast&#8221;?

The .357 SIG duplicates the ballistics of the .357 magnum revolver round. The Federal Air Marshal Service issues semi-auto pistols in this caliber for use by it&#8217;s agents on crowded commercial airliners. Isn&#8217;t that &#8220;way too fast&#8221; and like stated, shouldn&#8217;t they be afraid of injuring/killing a hostage or others in the dreaded &#8220;danger zone&#8221;?

Why is it that with expanding type bullets (soft points, jhp's etc.), lower velocities usually increase penetration?

Confusing?

It's all in the bullet construction fellas; "too fast" is simplistic nonsense


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## dakotaman (Oct 19, 2005)

Wow has this thread become a pissing match. It could have been stopped at Big V's comment:



> If youre serious about getting a handgun, I would like to make a suggestion to you.
> All the guns listed above are good for the folks using them. Everyone has there own opinion based on THEIR weapon(s) selections and experience with them. Go to a gun range in your area that has gun rentals and shoot a bunch of different guns. Shoot revolvers and semi autos and then pick the one that feels and fits YOU the best.


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## Shaun Frame (Mar 27, 2006)

dakotaman said:


> Wow has this thread become a pissing match. It could have been stopped at Big V's comment:


Pissing match?....Hardly....who are you trying to match? 

The part that you quoted would have been fine, but you didn't quote Big V's comment in it's entirety. why didn't you post all of it?

this is the part you left out, the last paragraph:


> I would not recommend any handgun smaller than a .38 for self defense. That&#8217;s my personal opinion. 9mm is a bit too fast and has a tendency to over penetrate, again, my opinion (based on facts). My personal preference would be a 1911 model in .45, but that&#8217;s just me. Hope this helps.


The "based on Facts" part bothers me. Please explain.

I know better.....based on facts.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

Toxic said:


> In reference to the last post BigV explained it well and that is exactly why our sniper team is switching to a slower 308 round. The round they are currently using is way to fast and like stated, they are afraid of injuring/killing a hostage or others in the danger zone.


sniper team? what sniper team? and what round are they switching from to switch to the 308?

be sure to check out: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs.htm

and read the information there. you'd be suprised on how many 38 specials overpenetrated...

overpenetration is highly over-rated... 80&#37; of shots fired against live adversaries miss the intended target anyway.


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

littleking said:


> sniper team? what sniper team? and what round are they switching from to switch to the 308?
> 
> be sure to check out: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs.htm
> 
> ...



I work for OSP and the teams our the states S.R.T. & S.T.A.R. They "are" going to a lighter .308 round. I am not sure about other sniper teams but they are some of the best in the nation. They take numerous awards at matches every year from Moundsville, Camp Perry, etc. I have shot with them a few times and if any of them missed 80% of the time I can *guarantee *you, they would not be on the team any longer. And as far as overpenetration being overated, tell that to someone that the bullet you fired went throught the subjects head and that you killed thier loved one. It doesn't make for good PR.


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## TexasPete (Apr 26, 2005)

i think overpenetration is largely due to bullet design. I've had 22LR pass through squirrels and groundhogs, but i've only ever had one 17HMR round pass through an animal and it was a small squirrel. The speed of a 17HMR round is about 2500 fps and the 22LR I shoot are right around 1300-1400 fps. I'd have to agree with LittleKing that speed is not the main factor for over-penetration. Then again, it may be a completely different story for a larger round. Just my 2 cents.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

Toxic said:


> They "are" going to a lighter .308 round


if they are going to a lighter .308 bullet, then the bullet will have a higher velocity which contradicts your previous statement that they are going to a slower 308 round.



Toxic said:


> .And as far as overpenetration being overated, tell that to someone that the bullet you fired went throught the subjects head and that you killed thier loved one. It doesn't make for good PR.


i said: overpenetration is overrated because 80% of shots fired against live adversaries miss the intended target anyway.

let me translate for you into simplified english:
80% of shots fired from a close encounter with an adversary are missed.

i did not say your sniper team missed 80% of their shots.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

TexasPete said:


> i think overpenetration is largely due to bullet design. I've had 22LR pass through squirrels and groundhogs, but i've only ever had one 17HMR round pass through an animal and it was a small squirrel. The speed of a 17HMR round is about 2500 fps and the 22LR I shoot are right around 1300-1400 fps. I'd have to agree with LittleKing that speed is not the main factor for over-penetration. Then again, it may be a completely different story for a larger round. Just my 2 cents.



corrent, bullet design and what the bullet is penetrating has everything to do with overpenetration... shooting someone in the hand is going to have way less bullet effect versus shooting someone in the chest; regardless of how "fast" the bullet is going. The difference in mass/density is pretty substantial.

saying a bullet is "too fast" just does not mean anything... my .17 rem averages 3819fps... it sure wont overpenetrate. you have to think about the sectional density of the bullet and how its related to the bullet design... as two bullets can have the same sectional density yet penetrate totally different.

my point: 9mm is not "too fast" for self defense

i suggest you read up on Terminal Ballistics


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

Littleking. Yes I did state they are going to a lighter round and it will also be slower. I am not sure what your qualifications are as far as a ballistic expert but I can tell you that the state has been doing this for a long, long time. They have put a lot of though into this and were apprehensive on doing it. And I can assure you they know what they are doing. And why are you so defensive? I have over 23 years experience in Military, Federal and State Law Enforcement, perhaps you should quite your computer job since you know so much. And I&#8217;ll put this in plain &#8220;english" for you, not trying to be a smart a**,&#8221; it just _sounds _like you _know _a lot.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

Toxic said:


> Littleking. Yes I did state they are going to a lighter round and it will also be slower. I am not sure what your qualifications are as far as a ballistic expert but I can tell you that the state has been doing this for a long, long time. They have put a lot of though into this and were apprehensive on doing it. And I can assure you they know what they are doing. And why are you so defensive? I have over 23 years experience in Military, Federal and State Law Enforcement, perhaps you should quite your computer job since you know so much. And Ill put this in plain english" for you, not trying to be a smart a**, it just sounds like you _know _a lot.


never said i was a ballistics expert, but saying a 9mm is "too fast" has no merit.

I should "*quite*" my job because you have over 23 years experience in Military, Federal and State Law Enforcement? what in the world does that mean?

lets get back to the topic here....

what does "too fast" mean?


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

littleking said:


> never said i was a ballistics expert, but saying a 9mm is "too fast" has no merit.
> 
> I should "*quite*" my job because you have over 23 years experience in Military, Federal and State Law Enforcement? what in the world does that mean?
> 
> ...



In your own words "plain english" again, since you know it all and you seem to think people who do it ever day have no clue?????? Your right, get back to the subject. Enough already!


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

some good information and discussion here.but since it seems to have gotten a little warm in here and off the original topic,how about getting back to that original question,before the sparks ignite


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

misfit said:


> some good information and discussion here.but since it seems to have gotten a little warm in here and off the original topic,how about getting back to that original question,before the sparks ignite


Thanks Misfit!


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## Bigeye (Apr 6, 2006)

I'll get back to the subject. I have been watching this thread for a couple of days now. So here is my 2 cents. I too am a hunter and have plenty of long guns for that, but I wanted something for home defense. I looked at all kinds of pistols before I settled on a 357. I looked at Glocks, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson semi autos in 40 cal and 9mm. I wanted a no brianer home defense pistol, that wouldn't be to complicated for my wife to shoot if needed. The one I have is nothing special it is a Taurus 357 5 inch barrell, easy to load, easy to shoot not alot of moving parts. If I want to go plink with it I can shoot 38s, and not break the bank. For protection I use Corbon 110gr hollow points, these things are like 1350 feet per second, and at 20 yards or less I can pretty much put the bullet where ever I want. I'll be honest if I was going to shoot alot I would defenately have bought something more high end, but it is here just to bust the crack head that decides to come through my door and it will do just fine. My 2 cents


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## SwollenGoat (Apr 13, 2005)

This here is what I carry...










It's not real convenient since I also have to drag a wagon behind me to carry the batteries and 2,500 rds of ammo. 
Finding a holster and a jacket large enough to hide it comfortably has also been kind of tough.


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## Darwin (Apr 12, 2004)

SwollenGoat said:


> This here is what I carry...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Swollen Goat, isn't that O'l painless from Predator that Jesse Ventura was carrying?


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## SwollenGoat (Apr 13, 2005)

Hehe, yes I believe it is.

_First seen in the movie "Predator" in 1987, the hand-held Minigun has captured the harts and minds of He-Men everywhere, be it in games or in real life. The very image of Jesse Ventura as Blain, spraying bad guys with a veritable hail of bullets that issued forth from his Minigun Painless was so powerful that the weapon has been seen in both countless other movies *and* in games._


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## Darwin (Apr 12, 2004)

You know as well as I do that everyone of those guys on that movie set were standing in line to have thier turn at shooting that gun!


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

SwollenGoat said:


> This here is what I carry...
> 
> 
> It's not real convenient since I also have to drag a wagon behind me to carry the batteries and 2,500 rds of ammo.
> Finding a holster and a jacket large enough to hide it comfortably has also been kind of tough.



wonder if it will over-penetrate because the bullet is too-fast


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## Shawn Philbrick (Jan 5, 2007)

I have a 40 sig....wife has a 9mm taurus....


both will do the deal.

both fit the shooter's hand well

both come in a multitude of color combos, and do-dads.


Bottom line is this......get what you are comfortable shooting. If there is more than one person that will potentially use it, get one t hat both or more can comfortably use.


all of the guns above .32 are deadly enough for defense purposes.

longer barrels are wieldly and uneccessary in true defense situations (most short barrel guns are accurate in just about any room in most houses.)

dead is dead.......454 Casulls are not needed at 12 ft......a 357 or 9 mm will kill just as easy, with less mop up afterward. Likewise, you really don't need a 17 shot banana clip on your 9mm....highly unlikely that you will miss 16 times at close range.....even more unlikely that 17 people will invade your home.

When I was younger I bought a 44 mag, 8 3/8" barrel for "defense" because I watched too much t.v.

I use it to deer hunt now, it's very impractical for home defense, and my wife couldn't shoot it without falling down.

it all comes down to practicality, and common sense.

IMO

Shawn


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## Orlando (Apr 12, 2004)

Listen to Shawn, don't matter how big the caliber. If you can't hit anything with it.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

I had a Taurus PT99 years ago and loved it, got stupid and swapped it off, it was one of the most accurate 9MMs I ever owned, it shot the American Eagle 124gr ball ammo like a dream, it still is a very affordable 9MM compared to the others anyway.


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## Davedacat (Apr 10, 2004)

45acp, Remington Golden Saber bullets should cure most of the over penetration problems.. 1911s although large have a very good safety system, but as already stated the gun don't matter near as much as the shooter abiltiy to hit the target with it... How can you go wrong with a stainless kimber 45


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## elkhtr (Oct 23, 2006)

very good reply Shawn.

A couple of other things to keep in mind-

In low light situations, a "hot" load from a .357 will have alot of muzzle flash, which can temporarily blind the shooter. the ammo is very important and there are as many choices as there are guns out there. Defense ammo should perform well under a variety of circumstances- through drywall, through a heavy jacket, while still providing the stopping power needed. Much of the ammo used by law enforcement is tested extensively for its performance, you may want to start there when selecting your ammo. 

If it is a serious defense gun, will you want to mount a light on it? Then a semi-auto like the glock or springfield may be a better choice. A gun is a tool, just like a flashlight. Finding the right tool for the job depends on your personal circumstances. if you are going to use it to defend yourself, make sure you become very familiar with it, so if the time comes, using it is second nature. Most manufacturers recommend a 500 round break in, which should be sufficient for you to be well versed on the use of the gun.

By the way, practice with a light. whether it is on the gun on in your hand, it will affect the way you shoot. Dont wait until you life is at risk to see how your equipment performs.

Good Luck.


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## pjc600 (Mar 13, 2006)

Davedacat said:


> 45acp, Remington Golden Saber bullets should cure most of the over penetration problems.. 1911s although large have a very good safety system, but as already stated the gun don't matter near as much as the shooter abiltiy to hit the target with it... How can you go wrong with a stainless kimber 45



 summer carry... xd45 acp 13 plus 1 in the hole


 winter carry...sw40ve 40 cal 14 shot

either one will do the job but the 45 has alot better shot placement


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