# 70 hp johnson hard start after its run



## 1morecast

First off, i want to thank every one who has helped me in the past with fixing my engine, last year i did a carb rebuild and new gas line from tank to engine, has been running great and fixed my low idle stall, now another ?..after trolling or running the boat when stopped for a length of time say 20 min or more it hard to start...
cold starts are great now that i've learned to do it properly....why the hard start after it's been running? i have heard of something called Heat soak, but i'm guessing my engine is on the small side for that....1994 2 stroke johnson 70.
thanks to all who chime in.


----------



## UFM82

If you are out again before you fix anything and it does it, try pumping your bulb to see if it's losing it's prime. Does it fire up, run for a bit and die? Or does it just crank and not fire? If you pump the bulb and it fires up, you know you have an air leak somewhere. No fuel drops anywhere after running? Rainbows on the water?


----------



## sherman51

I'm with ufm82 sounds like your losing your prime somewhere. pump the bulb and make sure its solid before trying to start. you could have a loose clamp on one of your gas lines letting it suck air, and letting your gas bleed off. have you tried doing a cold start after the motor sets for awhile?? I have a old merc 115 hp that is very cold blooded. its a beast to get started when its cold. after it starts it will start back up as quick as I hit the starter. but let it set for 30 minutes and it don't want to start. I have to pump the throttle a few times hit the choke and pump the throttle while cranking the motor to get it to start. I've had the carbs rebuilt and other carb work, replaced the gas lines and if it sets for 30 minutes I still have to do a cold start on it.
sherman


----------



## 1morecast

Fires up and runs fine, it happens when the motors off for a while , then it just cranks endlessly, i don't try the cold start method for fear of flooding it...i do have to pump the throttle a few times and eventually then it will fire up, maybe it's just stubborn like Sherman51 says. maybe it's just something i'll need to deal with


----------



## UFM82

Since you have to feed it fuel when trying to start it that tells me you're losing your prime. Outboard carbs don't have accelerator pumps so not much use "pumping" the throttle. Pump the bulb, choke it and see if it starts. You could have a fuel pump diaphragm with a pinhole, a leaking carb, etc.


----------



## fastwater

UFM82 said:


> Since you have to feed it fuel when trying to start it that tells me you're losing your prime. Outboard carbs don't have accelerator pumps so not much use "pumping" the throttle. Pump the bulb, choke it and see if it starts. You could have a fuel pump diaphragm with a pinhole, a leaking carb, etc.


One other thing to check is make sure your fuel tank vent is clear and not plugged or even partially plugged. If the tank can't breath it creates a vacuum or suction in the tank as it runs. If the vent/vent line is hard to get to(don't know your fuel tank setup) if possible, run with the fuel cap off till you think it should act up, shut it down and try to restart. If it doesn't start and acts like it is now, the vent is not your problem. If it starts up you need to dig further into a vent restriction or partial restriction.


----------



## 1morecast

as far as a pinhole leak in my fuel pump, i have not checked, but what i do see occasionally is blue gas in th bottom of my engine, since its white it;s easy to see, when i tilt up the motor after use will gas spill out of the carbs in through the air intake and is that what i'm seeing?
also, when i cold crank it, and it 's not turning over, is my VRO pumping oil into my engine, could that be the blue i see dripping out ? when i had the electrical done on my engine, the mechanic said i might need a new VRO since he saw so much oil present in my manifold. wasn't sure if this was due to endless cranking and s starts.
thanks


----------



## fastwater

IMO, if the mtr. is out of warranty, the best fix for that VRO is to disconnect it and mix oil in the gas manually. Regardless whether the VRO it's broke or not. Have just seen too many issues with them causing costly mtr. repairs including burning mtrs up completely. If a salesperson was trying to use the VRO system as a selling point to me when buying a new mtr. as they try to do, I'd surely have to tell them something to the likeness of "there are things that look and sound really good on pencil and paper but don't always work in the real world. This oil injection system has proven to be one of them."


----------



## I Fish

1morecast said:


> Fires up and runs fine, it happens when the motors off for a while , then it just cranks endlessly, i don't try the cold start method for fear of flooding it...i do have to pump the throttle a few times and eventually then it will fire up, maybe it's just stubborn like Sherman51 says. maybe it's just something i'll need to deal with


If your primer bulb is staying hard, try the cold start procedure. Another thing I know has worked for me, try cranking it over and as you do raise the throttle. My 100 fires every time in that situation.




fastwater said:


> IMO, if the mtr. is out of warranty, the best fix for that VRO is to disconnect it and mix oil in the gas manually....... look and sound really good on pencil and paper but don't always work in the real world. This oil injection system has proven to be one of them."


That VRO sure does take the brunt of a lot of problems. I'm not saying it's foolproof, but my observations have been different. There's way too much mis-information out there. Anyone that takes the time to say VRO is junk should take the time to read this in depth article/explanation:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html


----------



## 1morecast

Thanks I fish, i will give that a shot this weekend when i hopefully get out. 
i agree on the VRO getting a bad rap, i have done my research on it and and seeing as my engine is a 1994, i decided to keep the VRO, my warning horn works and i keep extra oil on hand if anything should go wrong, that being said, if and when it starts to fail i will host likely remove it due to the $ of a repair.


----------



## fishingguy

Weak coil could be the culprit for hard starting when warm. Yes, I agree, disconnect those oil injectors after warranty.


----------



## fastwater

I Fish said:


> If your primer bulb is staying hard, try the cold start procedure. Another thing I know has worked for me, try cranking it over and as you do raise the throttle. My 100 fires every time in that situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That VRO sure does take the brunt of a lot of problems. I'm not saying it's foolproof, but my observations have been different. There's way too much mis-information out there. Anyone that takes the time to say VRO is junk should take the time to read this in depth article/explanation:
> 
> http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html


I've read, and been told about all the 'greatness' of the VRO and all the rest of the automatic oil injection systems.
My observation of them over the years has obviously, and unfortunately been different from yours. This article, like others doesn't change my opinion.
I say 'unfortunately ' because I wish my observations over the yrs. had been different due to the obvious fact that it is very easy to just keep the oil resevior full rather than mixing. That, and the fact that oil usage being metered for specific needs/demands of the engine, usually results in less oil usage. An obvious savings.
The article you posted was a good one with, IMO, some good information. It also shows a cutaway picture of the pump and breaks down the 4 section(if you will) of the pump and all its many pieces and parts.
To keep this as short as I can, I'll just say that anything mechanical is subject to fail. The more components to make up the part, the more chances of failure. Add in splicing that mechanical component into the electrical system for the alarming part of component in case of pump failure, that increases the possibility of something going wrong ( especially in a damp inviroment)with the total package.

For those that think the VRO is the best thing since sliced bread...have at it. Just make sure and do the maintenance required including cleaning the oil pickup screen in the tank, cleaning tank vent, inspecting hose and clamps(don't want to start sucking air into the system creating an air lock). There may be a few more minor maintenance things not listed you should do as well. Read your manuals. Also pay very close attention to (if listed) the part that states about repairs that must be left up to your favorite outboard mtr. mechanic or dealer. Those issues may include the pump not metering correctly (for a list of various reasons) at different RPM's causing irratic engine performance which could possibly put the engine in idle or shut down mode depending on the circumstances. This 'limp' or shut down mode would happen given the fact that your electrical circuit controlling the alarm side is in good working order. If not and your not pumping enough oil(or not any oil at all) say bye-bye to your engine.

Again, if ya like the VRO system...great!

I trust them so much that I even disconnected the automatic oiling system on my 2cyl. Yamaha golf cart.
Life to me is much simpler and much less worrying when I know the oil is there.
Of course, I'm not very bright and am a 'simple' person.


----------



## 1morecast

is there a way to check coils?


----------



## fishingguy

Do you have a manual? If not, you should get one. Try to get the manufacturer manual, they are much better than the clymer. It will walk you through it. If you are going to work on your motor, you must have a manual.


----------



## deerfarmer

I have a 1989 Johnson 60 that had the same problem. Drove me crazy trying to figure it out. My issue was the Fuel Primer solenoid. This solenoid shoots gas into intake manifold when you are stating the engine. It's easy to tell if this is your problem. Next time it won't start after it warm find the solenoid and there is a red level on it. The red lever is a manual primer. If your motor doesn't start turn the red lever forward and back 3 or 4 times and I bet she will fire right up. Probably the same part number 5007356 they run around 150.00 got mine on ebay. Ps some times you might get lucky and the ground wire might not be getting a good ground.


----------



## fastwater

Not discounting testing the coils...but going back and reading this thread again, I didn't see an answer to the question, " is the fuel ball staying hard after setting a short while and mtr. won't start?" 
Also read that you said there were gas/oil stains on white mtr. probably caused when you trim mtr up for trailering. 
But are you sure that's the only time fuel is leaking out of the mtr.? The reason I ask is if one of the float valves are not seating properly, even leaking just a small amount, when you stop the engine and sit awhile, you'll loose fuel to that carb. bowl causing a hard to start condition. The fuel will run out and either puddle inside your cowling or down your mtr. It wouldn't be much fuel. Just the amount the bowl holds so it may not be real noticeable without removing the cover. Worse, if this is happening, depending on how hot the mtr is, the gas could be dissipating if it's hitting any 'hotspots" on the mtr when it runs out.
A small leak in one of the fuel lines could cause the same hard starting issue.
Next time out, run the mtr till you figure it's gonna act up then shut it down. Let it set long enough till you figure it won't start again. Before you do anything else, squeeze the ball and see if it's still hard or not. You will not hurt anything by squeezing and checking the ball.
As UFM82 stated, there's no sense in pumping the throttle when trying to restart. When restarting a warm engine, open throttle about 1/4 way then crank. When it fires, pull throttle back to idle.

Fishingguy, suggested you get a manual. That's a great idea especially when it comes to things such as carb. adjustments, specs., timing(hot and cold), gap adjustments, procedures, etc.

FWIW, I've rebuilt a few carbs. and maybe it's just me, but I've never been able to adjust one on the bench and have it run its best without doing some 'tweaking' out on the water. Always got the air/fuel and rpm close at home running mtr on muffs or in a bbl. Found that when out on the water, after running getting the mtr. up to full operating temp. a little more adjustment is usually needed. And sometimes a little more adjusting for running under a load.


----------



## bountyhunter

yep VRO,s are great they tell you your motor is toast after the fact. when you here the no oil alarm its already been cooked.


----------



## 1morecast

fishingguy said:


> Do you have a manual? If not, you should get one. Try to get the manufacturer manual, they are much better than the clymer. It will walk you through it. If you are going to work on your motor, you must have a manual.


I have the Seloc manual , it's good but hard to navigate at times...is there another one you'd recommend?


----------



## fishingguy

Try to find a johnson manual for your year motor. They are out there, harder to find, and more expensive.


----------



## backfar

As you've read it could be alot of different issues causing the proplem...i would check the prime bulb 1st and see if its still hard....im with fastwater on this....the 1st thing i would eliminate is the floats...i don't believe in the theory that some engines are just hard starting...there's ALWAYS a reason an engine starts hard....and its a red flag that needs fixed....the engine should never leak gas out the bottom...


----------



## odell daniel

1morecast said:


> Thanks I fish, i will give that a shot this weekend when i hopefully get out.
> i agree on the VRO getting a bad rap, i have done my research on it and and seeing as my engine is a 1994, i decided to keep the VRO, my warning horn works and i keep extra oil on hand if anything should go wrong, that being said, if and when it starts to fail i will host likely remove it due to the $ of a repair.


I have the same motor same year too,I run high test gas and always used the same oil, I mix my own,also I use sea foam religously. I troll all day and it runs great. my old outboard was a 6o horse johnson and every now and then it would'nt start, I would trim it up out of the water and it would fire right up I always thought it was something to do with my carbs since it would start tipped up like that.


----------

