# Homeland Security Orders Ammo, Lots of Ammo



## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

Department of Homeland Security places an order for 450 MILLION .40 hollow point bullets and another 175 MILLION .223 rifle bullets...
Do they know something we don't??


*read it here*


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Maybe they found a REALLY good sale ?


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## Bonecrusher (Aug 7, 2010)

Better break out the 9 looks like the price of .40 ammo is on it's way up.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

maybe they are trying to buy it all up some we dont have ammo for our weapons


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

BigV said:


> Department of Homeland Security places an order for 450 MILLION .40 hollow point bullets and another 175 MILLION .223 rifle bullets...
> Do they know something we don't??
> 
> 
> *read it here*



More like what are they planning for?


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## Gottagofishn (Nov 18, 2009)

Makes that 9mm seem like it was a good choice. Probably should stockpile some of that in lieu of this information.


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## seethe303 (Dec 12, 2006)

are there any numbers on ammo purchases by the DHS prior to this purchase? Without any prior context it is hard to say that this purchase is unusual (even though it seems very high).


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## Curtis937 (Sep 17, 2010)

Sounds like they are prepping for something to me....

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## fishingdude (Nov 24, 2010)

Gottagofishn said:


> Makes that 9mm seem like it was a good choice. Probably should stockpile some of that in lieu of this information.


No, the .40 is an even better choice now.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

seethe303 said:


> are there any numbers on ammo purchases by the DHS prior to this purchase? Without any prior context it is hard to say that this purchase is unusual (even though it seems very high).


That was my first thought as well.


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## fishingdude (Nov 24, 2010)

seethe303 said:


> are there any numbers on ammo purchases by the DHS prior to this purchase? Without any prior context it is hard to say that this purchase is unusual (even though it seems very high).


If this was for all branches of our Military, then this wouldn't look so bad. But for the DHS to purchase for in the home arena is definitely fishy. These ain't no practice rounds either. High quality, high damage rounds. The UN uses almost indentical ammo for their rifles. .223 version.

Edit: 200 million purchased in 09" This purchase (450 m) is over a 5 year period.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

god. that is a HUGE amount of ammo. thats enough ammo to outlast the most of the guns!


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## predator86 (Apr 19, 2011)

Most agency only by ammo every few years and considering that DHS is they largest LE agency this isnt that big a deal. 

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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

they employ approx 200,000 people. Let's us say that of that number, 75% carry firearms (rest being office/secretarial staff). so 450,000,000 divided by 150,000 comes out to 3,000 rounds per employee. Over a 5 year period, that's 600 rounds per year. Now one has to wonder if they use that much for range practice or? Be interesting to know the actual numbers of rounds fired at something other then a bullseye. I doubt it's nowhere close to 600 per employee per year though. I probably go through that much just target shooting, LOL.


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## dmills4124 (Apr 9, 2008)

That new AR that RED JACKET was working on when they went to Las Vegas for the big reveal, Was that in the 223 caliber or what?
Did they or somebody come up with a nnew service weapon for them?
and
What the heck are they gearing up for? 
What intell are they holding on to without raising the threat level?
I am not a conspiracy nut. I just think that is a really large quantity to purchase of anything when it comes to the government. 
Does the Homeland security answer to the pentagon or are they a seperate branch of the government created since 911?
thanks ya'll
donm


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

I wouldn't read that much into it--probably has to do more with how the government does business--might even be a bit of an election year economic stimulus.

And if you read the original source (WSJ)http://www.marketwatch.com/story/at...ement-dhs-ice-2012-03-12?reflink=MW_news_stmp more closely, you'll see that they aren't promising to buy that over a five-year period. It's more along the lines that ATK has to be able to deliver that should Homeland Security (and, oh yeah, Customs and Integration is also part of that contract) want to order that amount:


> ANOKA, Minn., March 12, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- ATK /quotes/zigman/217145/quotes/nls/atk ATK -0.42% announced that it is being awarded an *Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity *(IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a *maximum volume *of 450 million ... Although ATK believes that the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, *it can give no assurance that its expectations will be achieved*. Forward-looking information is subject to certain risks, trends, and uncertainties that could *cause actual results to differ *materially from those projected. Among those factors are: *changes in governmental spending*, *budgetary policies and product sourcing strategies*[etc]; the company's competitive environment; the terms and timing of awards and contracts; economic conditions; the supply, availability and costs of raw materials and components; or reliance on a key supplier.


So, as I read this "news," it sounds more like a press release to pump up the stock value of ATK than any sort of big news on the government stocking up on bullets.....Might want to invest in companies which supply raw materials to the munitions industries .


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

We usually shoot 100-200 rounds each weekend. My buddy probably goes thru even more.


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## fishingdude (Nov 24, 2010)

viper1 said:


> We usually shoot 100-200 rounds each weekend. My buddy probably goes thru even more.


of hollow point?


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Some times. Depends on what cal. were shooting and prices. I use mostly solids from the 9mm and 40. Then switch to P+P to double check before quitting. 44 I loaded all hollow points. Probably reload 40 and 9 mm this year..at least hope to. Then probably all hollow point. We like to shoot and prefer what we shoot if we can. My rifles I don't shoot as much but try to shoot every month at least a few shots. If a person didn't reload you wouldn't be able to shoot enough though.


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## dmills4124 (Apr 9, 2008)

Man it just seems like you cant believe anything in the news anymore. It isnt news(who what when were) but its either the opinion or the political slant of the writer/author.

DITTO on the reloading. Reloading has for me a zen type of affect, cause it just really relaxes me. Almost as much as shooting, and, of course, FISHING!
JMO
donm


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

more disturbing perhaps is why the Dept. of Education needs 27 riot shotguns? 

https://www.fbo.gov/index?&s=opport...fa2fe18a83d1c3dee0039b2&tab=core&tabmode=list


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Yes your right it is a sport all in it's own after you get past the point of money saving. I can experiment for every individual gun till I get a perfect load. Then i can repeat that over and over. And still in the end it's usually a lot cheaper than factory.


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## tadluvadd (Feb 19, 2012)

I love these doom and gloom stories.maybe they know exactly what we already know.everything keeps going up in price,so why not buy all you need at todays price before you get rapped tom?or it could be they got word of a zombie meltdown comming for us.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

My first instinct tells me that the Department of Homeland Security is trying to spend their entire budget, even if it's wasteful, so that they can request more. Congress is about to vote on a new budget. If they can't come up with one to satisfy everyone(not likely), then automatic cuts will kick in. All departments will be looking at cuts. 
It makes sense that Homeland Security is jockeying for position in the upcoming budget negotiations.
Mark my words, in five years, we'll be hearing about the Department of Homeland Security destroying hundreds of millions of $'s worth of expired ammo.
My first gov't. teacher in high school taught me something that I'll never forget. Something that has held true for my entire life. All agencies of gov't. will spend their entire budgets, then request an increase. This is the prevailing wisdom in Washington. There's no incentive to be efficient or come in under budget, lest you get cut in the next cycle.

OR.........It could be a Zombie Meltdown is comming!--Tim...........................................................................................................................................................


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## Canoerower (Jun 28, 2011)

I agree with WOW. Local government does the same thing cause if they don't they get the amount left taken off next years budget. So if they spend it all they can get more. 


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

predator86 said:


> Most agency only by ammo every few years and considering that DHS is they largest LE agency this isnt that big a deal.
> 
> Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk


This is a government conspiracy/impending doom thread. Please do not ruin it with common sense and logic


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

fishingdude said:


> of hollow point?


What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?? :hypnotized: :eyeroll:


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

BigV said:


> Department of Homeland Security places an order for 450 MILLION .40 hollow point bullets and another 175 MILLION .223 rifle bullets...
> Do they know something we don't??
> 
> 
> *read it here*


If you stop and think that isn't a lot of shells for an organization that big. I dont know what the range requirements are but I bet they shoot more than most of us do.


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