# Too Pic or not too Pic. That is the Question.



## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

I didn't want to hi-jack another post that was having some OGF members having issues with posting pics of steelhead and the background gives away the spot.

I felt the need to chime in on my opinion about this situation, as it seems every year when steelheading comes around this issue gets brough back up, and most of the time it gets a bit heated in the discussion of it.

So rather than hi-jack a post about it, I want to address it in a calm manner and talk about both points of view.

The veteran steelheaders in the house already know that when posting reports about how their steelheading went that day, that there is caution that is taken on giving exact spots, as well as posting photos that show way to much background giving away the location.

Here are the reasons.

Their are more lurkers on any given forum than their are ones who post good information. For every 10 people who post, there are probably 100 that don't. 

The veteran steelheaders typically don't fish the spots that are on those ODNR access maps. They use those maps to find a place to park and then go off on their own and walk away from the crowds to find their own holes. Sometimes they walk 4 miles to find holes. I can understand their concern in regards to someone that may also have found the same hole, then got good fishing out of it, then snapped some photo's only to blow the holes so called secrecy and then 10 trolls from the forums come in the next morning and fish it out. This not only hurts the first guy who may have started fishing the hole, but it also ultimatley hurts the guy who snapped a photo of it and posted it online for all to see.

Now saying this, I can guarentee you that every hole where steelhead may be found isn't YOUR hole, regardless if you found it, you think you were their first, etc..

Someone has found it before you is what I always try to remember.

Now on the flip side of the coin, 

To all the veteran guys out their that catch steelies on a consistant basis, there are alot of beginner anglers every year that want to get into this species of fish, how and where to catch them. They have no idea where to go, so they ask online, and they are told go to the ODNR website, and lookup a map, find an access spot, etc... The new steel angler does this, they get to the river and have no idea really how to fish for them.

You all have seen the newbie trying to get steelies. I don't need to describe one of them, you already know.

Then the new steelheader gets his first fish of the season, or first one ever, or biggest, etc...As he is excited to get it, he wants to capture the memory via a photo. He has no idea that it could pose a problem if their is too much background in the photo. You can't really blame him. 

The only way to change this issue is to educate everyone.

Jumping down someones throat about posting a pic is somewhat childish, though it isn't probably the best practice to post exactly where you got the fish by the new angler. But in the same breath, you as an educated steelhead fisherman aren't really helping the issue if you bash someone new. Rather if you were to educate the new guys, maybe even help them edit a photo but still be able to post their catch, then the new steelheader would gain more respect for those more knowledgeable than them.

Here are my personal set of rules that I follow when posting about steelies.

1. If the river I fish is the Vermillion, Rocky, Grand, and or Chagrin I will post what river I got the fish. Reason being these rivers are known to be stocked each year.

2. If I get fish in the rivers listed above, I will say I got it in the upper or lower stretch of the said river. I don't give an exact spot.

3. I do not post about any creek and or river that isn't stocked that I fish. If I get fish their I won't post where I got it period.

4. When snapping a photo of a fish so that I can remember the good times, I do my best to ensure the photo won't give away the spot, if after I review the photo it does give away the spot, I photoshop the background.

5. If I go with someone steelheading and they show me one of their holes, I don't tell anyone....not even my typical fishing budies, and not in any Private Messages. If I show them one of my spots, I just ask for the same respect.
I have been on a river where I knew a really good spot, but it was originally shown to me by a fishing buddy, and since the guy that was with me wasn't him, I didn't go to that spot, and thats just because I respect those that show me a hole as I hope they would do the same for me.

6. If I am fishing a remote spot and someone walks up on me, the majority of the time they are pleasant with me. And I am the same with them if I happen to walk up to them.

7. I will post my lure presentation, water flow, clarity, and approx. depth I got the fish for any river or creek I fish. If it isn't one of the stocked ones I just don't post the river, but at least inform others of the method I got the fish.

I can go on and on about proper behavior and courtesy when on the river, but I don't think I need to do so. It all starts with the veterans telling rather than yelling the good practices to get into as a new steelheader.

Ok, I am done and am now getting off my soap box. 

flash----------------------------------------out


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Thanks, very well versed...!


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

this is a site to help experts to the novice catch ohio game fish right..i know i myself have learned bagfulls from it. if it wasn't for the info i received here i would have been fishing 5 miles out of conny instead of 12 miles out of ashtabula limiting on walleye.(i know its a steelhead forum but thats my example) anyhow its a place to share. everyone is allow to do this as they see fit. photos, names, baits bla, bla, bla....

now as far as people who only take info and dont give..SHAME ON YOU..your not nice and rather low in my oppinion...

i will post where and how i catch fish. someone has done the favor for me and im all to happy to return it to someone else..im here to learn, share and catch fish...

if that upsets you and im sure some of you are fuming right now IM SORRY.
see you on the river..  EZbite


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## kfish (Jun 4, 2006)

I thought this web site was for people to enjoy and share informatoin if they chose to (how much is up to them) pics included after all informatoin is why here , is it not. You chose to give as much info as you see fit. Some secret's where not made to give away.


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## gotme1 (Jun 27, 2006)

This needed to get done long time ago on all reports .....I know i have done it alot this year on Erie and stoped . Like perch fishing i also know that there is tons of them but if you are slaming a bounch of jumbos are you going to get on the radio and tell everyone the spot so they come by you and mess that spot all up? The thing we should say is something like northwest of docks 25 ft of water and have them try to find the fish themselfs. BUT ALL I KNOW THIS JUST OPENED A CAN OF WORMS THAT NEEDED TO BE A LONG TIME AGO.


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## y-town (Dec 25, 2004)

Sharing some info is good, but people have to do some of there own work. If it werent for this site I probably wouldn't be steelhead fishing right now and I'd have a lot more money but I love it. I've done a lot of work reading researching and asking and hoping that on one of my few trips I get lucky and catch a couple. A lot of the pleasure is going out being in the outdoors and looking for a spot to fish.


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## peple of the perch (Sep 13, 2004)

KSUFLASH said:


> I
> You all have seen the newbie trying to get steelies. I don't need to describe one of them, you already know.



u an use me as an example.  very well said ksuflash

do alot of u novice anglers pull off to the side of a raod and walk thru the woods to a river or how do u get ur so called hot spots. im not asking for any spots and im not trying to hyjak this thread.


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## liquidsoap (Oct 22, 2005)

Good post KSU, I agree. Some steelheaders are pretty proctective of the spots they fish... When I first found a few good holes I wanted to tell the world, but then I wisened up.
Looks like this will be an eye opener to some...
Most of the times good intentions are ment but live and learn...


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

To those whom feel they are giving back to the OGF community as well as anyone else they decide to tell their exact spots to, let me shed more light on the situation. And before I go further, YES you can speak your mind on the exact spot, give a GPS location if you feel neccisary for your steelhead hole, of which in fact isn't yours and probably a spot that someone told you.
Yet, that is a priviledge on OGF and if you were to do so on other fishing forums outside of OGF that are Trout specific forums, your account wouldn't last long, and I can pretty much guarentee that. 

I have mixed feelings about someone that steelhead fishes to post the exact spot, especially if it isn't one that is publicly published on lets say the ODNR steelhead stream maps. It truly doesn't affect me though, I am one that only uses those spots as access to the river, I then walk until I am out of sight, out of mind, and then begin my hunt for a hole. Some holes I know of, others I find during my day of walking. 

Those that feel the need to post exact spots because they can, and feel that they are helping the community aren't posting spots that I know of, because I rarely see a soul where I fish. So it doesn't really bother me in that sense.

I would challenge any person that honestly thinks that giving the exact GPS locations to a spot truly helps another new fisherman. It doesn't actually. When I started Steelhead fishing I got told spots, those were actually public spots, I didn't catch a fish. I went fishless for a season. Second season rather than trying to find out spots, I learned how to fish for them first and foremost, then on my own find spots that could potentially hold fish. Once I learned more about the rivers, what an eddy, riffle, tailout, etc.., then I was able to know when I was walking the rivers what was good holding water for these fish.

I compare my analogy of learning about rivers and where they might be, rather than someone spoon feeding me, too tying flies.

If I give 5 flies to a fisherman and he goes out and uses them. Yeah he might catch some fish, but he will eventually lose the flies. When his flies are gone, he is done catching fish. Yet, if I show the fisherman how to tie the fly, he will have been empowered with knowledge and hence can tie his own when he runs out. Just like if I told you a fishing hole. If you didn't catch fish in it, you might as well go home because you don't know how to detect good water for steelies.

Kinda like that saying "Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime."

Also, if you haven't already noticed, steelhead fisherman are protective and somewhat secretive of what they think of in their mind as the "honey hole" and I can understand that and respect that. I also know that if someone on any forum comes out and says "I CAN, I WILL, YOU CAN'T STOP ME FROM SAYING WHAT I WANT." You in fact won't get many if any at all experienced steelheadfisherman to teach you nor show you much of anything with that sort of attitude.

It's your right to say what you want, post what you want, give whatever details or lack there of that you wish, but those veterans out there that watch the forums and post on the forums will in no way shape or form take you under their wing and teach you and eventually when the trust has been built show you any spots other than the publicly advertised ones, as YOU will just go blab it all over the net, of which ruins it for the veteran steelheader.

I spend more time scouting a river for both steelhead and pike than I do actually fishing. I will be damned if I let that hard work go to waste by spoonfeeding others. I have no problem showing someone how to fish, how to read rivers, and typical water that both steel and pike are in, but at some point you have to get pushed out of the nest. I am sure there are plenty of OGF members that can attest that I have given them loads of information on how to fish and pointed them in a direction to go, but focus more on teaching them rather than spoonfeed them a GPS number.

While others are watching posts online trying to find out where other are catching fish, I am at home with topographical maps, flow charts online, google earth searching the areas, finding access locations, and emailing private land owners for access. I go to rivers without a rod, throw on the wader and walk, making mental and written notes on possible good spots to fish. 

What I rely on from the forums is those whom post water conditions, weather conditions, and flow conditions. I personally don't need honey holes or any holes for that matter. I like to find public access, then I park the truck and start walking.

If I have private property access to a river, it isn't right for me to post it online where I was, thats not fair to me nor the homeowner that was gracious enough to give me access. Yet, when the trust is built between me and another angler, I will walk up to that landowners door and tell them I have trust in that fisherman to respect their propery and ask if they might mind giving written access to my fisherman buddy as well. Others though don't care, they might get private propery access, they next day them and all their buddies are raising hell in the rivers on private property. This makes it tougher each day for those of us that aren't like that.

What I have said above are the facts, and yes I can agree to disagree with anyone whom has the "I WILL,I CAN ATTITUDE." Your just gonna be a lonely steelhead fisherman though.

flash------------------------------------------out


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## ShakeDown (Apr 5, 2004)

I think everyone is right here. The site exists for the sharing of information, and it's really up to the individual to decide what they're comfortable with posting, in terms of catch specfic content. We'll probably always have lurkers, and I bet a lot of us have qualified for that title from time to time 

Personally, I wish I caught the fish you guys do so I would have that dilemma  However, when I do catch something worthwhile of photographing I'm pretty discreet about revealing locations. I do think that sometimes there is such a thing as too much information, and out of respect for the other guys fishing the areas and my own efforts, I focus more on the means of catching than where exactly. Still, a firm believer in "to each his own"


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## New-B-Angler (Aug 23, 2006)

Well, after I photoshopped the background so no one could find my honey hole, and I photoshopped myself so no one could do nasty photoshops with my face, and then I photoshopped the fish to protect his (or her) identity because he (or she) was dumb enough to get caught I didn't want to embarass the fish anymore, this is what was left.


OK, no offense to anyone. I just wanted to add a little levity to the situation. 

I agree with Flash. The experienced guys will stop supporting this site and us un-educated new guys will be stuck trying to learn without their experience.


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## DanAdelman (Sep 19, 2005)

i agree with ya Ben...well i think so i didn't read all of both posts but it is all good stuff...I also spend a lot of time hiking to find new spots ect...The only thing that irratates me is that if someone recognizes the hole don't they already know about it?....I post pics of the hoga and if anyone has ever been there they know right where i was at... i don't think this is a problem because if they know the area they already know the quality of fishing...If someone doesn't recognize the background they don't know where the hole is and the picture is giving away absolutely nothing...


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## CoolWater (Apr 11, 2004)

Many good points made by flash and others... not much else I can add...

Overall, I tend to think a tight cropped photo that isnt too revealing is always the best route to go. The masses that see things on the web - just isn't too responsible to put them right on the spot.


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## WISH IT WAS YOU (Jul 25, 2006)

well i like to show people a good time their is thousands of steel head in each creek i like to show were they are so long as it ok i will show people my spots in retunr mabey i will find out some new spots


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

Well, as one who posts both reports and pictures, whether it's steelhead, bass, or crappie, to me, I do it to share the experience. Generally speaking, I rarely give exact information on the "where". At times though, I do use that little PM feature to give more specific info to help others out, just as so many before have helped me. 

I have been steelie fishing in spots I've been taken too, off the beaten path, just as other species as well. My goal is to motivate others to get out there and find their own spots, regarless of species, because that is what it's all about. Getting help is fine, but when, pretty much on your own, you figure out a pattern and body of water, it's pure heaven.

This site was set up as a place to share. There are those, though, for whatever reason, won't share, but only take. That's what you need to keep in the back of your head when posting reports. That's why the ol' PM feature is so great! LOL.

I'm going fishing!!! :B 

Oh yeah, and I'll still take and post the pics, if I don't forget the camera!!!


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## silverbullet (Apr 14, 2004)

Sorry I opened a BIG can of worms guys. I'll use a different approach next time.


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

no need to apologize sliverbullet. It's all good.

Heck I love when people post pics, and even with them photoshoped it gets me excited to go out on the weekend. Keep posting and have a good time out seeking steelhead..

flash----------------------------out


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

It's not a can of worms or negative at all. No problems here.


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## joe01 (Apr 16, 2004)

> While others are watching posts online trying to find out where other are catching fish, I am at home with topographical maps, flow charts online, google earth searching the areas, finding access locations, and emailing private land owners for access. I go to rivers without a rod, throw on the wader and walk, making mental and written notes on possible good spots to fish.


I guess I'm not crazy, I do the samething


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## joel_fishes (Apr 26, 2004)

I'm with Flash. I don't think posting spots is a good idea unless you like a lot of company. With all the talk about giving exact locations by some, I think the guys that catch a few steelhead probably won't share any spots which is their right. 

In my opinion, once the fish are spread the whole way throughout the rivers, the spot becomes pretty irrelevant. You may get some rivers holding more fish or having better conditions, but there will be fish in all of the rivers. When someone catches some fish, I am more interested in where the fish are sitting in the pool (head, tail out, etc.) because most the spots you know will be holding fish.

Joel


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## Hoosier Daddy (Aug 19, 2005)

This comes up every so often on every fishing board.

Well put by KSU info= good
Exact spots = Bad


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

I agree and I disagree honestly. Its ok to give a location (Pike Island Dam) but not ok to give pinpoint spots (Pike Island Dam, right next to the 3rd boulder), but to just say the Ohio River is kinda weak. What good is that doing anyone? I will give the river or lake, maybe even a section of that water but I refuse to give out exactly where I was. The same is true with lures or bait. I might have been catching smallies on a glass minnow husky jerk...i will say I caught them on a stick bait. Its ok to give people helpful info and insight but you got to let them figure it out themselves. Most of us know what we know about fishing by reading magazines, watching fishing shows, learning from a Dad, Uncle, Grandfather, etc. But you were given the tools to become a better fisherman just not a few good spots. I have seen too many good smallie holes get destroyed around central Ohio because someone posts a spot and within a month the fishing is bad and the bank is littered. 

As far as the photo thing goes, you got to be careful about whats in your background. I have identified spots before because there is a unique tree or something in the background. Now I already knew about the spot but I have stumbled on to peoples spots because of what they have left in their picture too. Be walking the creek and see something that you remember from a picture, thats when its gets dangerous. I can do it on the stretch of the Ohio River I fish all the time. I have actually matched exactly where the guy took the pic based on a water tower in the background. If people wanna find your spots they will, just dont make it easier for them. I personally am a CP&R guy but unfortunately there are alot of guys that just care how full their freezer is with fish. Because of the meathunters and lurkers, thats why you need to be careful of your posts and pics.

Jake


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## GobyOneGnoby (Apr 21, 2004)

Well said Flash. Too many lurkers looking to be spoon fed. Part of the beauty of fishing is climbing the learning curve. If it was called catching, then everyone would be doing it.


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## Fish On (Sep 1, 2004)

New-B-Angler said:


> Well, after I photoshopped the background so no one could find my honey hole, and I photoshopped myself so no one could do nasty photoshops with my face, and then I photoshopped the fish to protect his (or her) identity because he (or she) was dumb enough to get caught I didn't want to embarass the fish anymore, this is what was left.
> 
> 
> OK, no offense to anyone. I just wanted to add a little levity to the situation.
> ...


NICE PICTURE ...I LOVE IT ...NOW THAT IS FUNNY !!! ( I was thinking of doing the same thing ) 
I think I have fished there before though ..LOL!!!
Those white specks really gave your location away ...THERE GOES THE HONEY HOLE !!!

GREAT POST ....KSU !!!


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## peple of the perch (Sep 13, 2004)

Fish On said:


> NICE PICTURE ...I LOVE IT ...NOW THAT IS FUNNY !!! ( I was thinking of doing the same thing )
> I think I have fished there before though ..LOL!!!
> Those white specks really gave your location away ...THERE GOES THE HONEY HOLE !!!
> 
> !!!



ya beet me to it.

how do u guys contact these people for privet property. do u just drive in and knock on there doors or what?
i went to danials park over the weekend and thats all i saw were adults with a red and white bobber and those kiddy rods.


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

Yes, walk up to the door, knock, intorduce yourself, and ask.

It's also nice when you get access to mail a card of thanks, even a christmas card is good.

I have friends that hunt, they do something similar, but they actually work on the farm helping bail hay and farm chores. 

Giving back to those that have granted permission is always a good thing.

flash-----------------------------out


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

When I was in High School we used to get permission to fish farmers ponds by shooting ground hogs for them in the summer time. We always got access to fish their ponds and most of the time we got access to hunt also in the winter and fall. Most of the farmers were really nice when we asked for permission. A few were jilted because of people sneaking in and trashing or tearing up their property. When we fished we always cleaned up after ourselves and the a$$holes who would sneak in and leave a case of beer bottles on the bank, nightcrawler tins, and old fishing line. One farmer who gave us access, all he asked was that we stopped by and told him we were going to go fishing so he could join us because he didn't have anyone to fish with. Another farmer just asked if we caught a few nice bluegill to bring him a few so he could cook them up. Alot of these landowners are really nice as long as you make it clear you are going to respect their property and abide by their rules. It never hurts to ask and the worst they can say is no, then you thank them for their time and go about your way. We got turned down a handful of times, it happens and ya don't worry about it.

Jake


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## knightwinder (May 12, 2006)

I think Big Daddy has got it right! Please read his comments about why this site was set up! And if someone keeps on complaining about " their segret spot" or "their Honey hole" Or" don't show that picture", Tell them to keep moving on "explicit". Because their OUT OF THEIR MIND if they think its their place and their place only! This is just unbeleivable how so much time is wasted on such a topic. What grade are we in?


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## peple of the perch (Sep 13, 2004)

not many people go to a holebecause someone posted about it. but if someone says hay that was my honey hole y whould u post this bla la bla. then u r just asking for people (the lurkers) to come.


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