# T/C Omega Ammunition



## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Hey guys,

I recently bought this gun and was just wondering what bullet or bullet/sabbot combo you have had the most success with. I was considering Powerbelts, but they seem to go down the barrell too easily...is the spin affected by this lack of friction?


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

conicals notoriously shoot bad out of t/c barrels....

try the shockwave 250gr backed by 100gr of triple7, as swollengoat can attest to, i was shooting sub 1" groups with this.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree with others. Keep this real simple and you'll have good results.

250 gr shockwaves or SST's (same bullet), 100 gr (by VOLUME!)loose T7 or Pyrodex or 2, 50 gr pellets of either, winchester primer and you should be very good to go.

I would not shoot a powerbelt at a groundhog much less a deer. MY OPINION! I know there are bunches of happy powerbelt shooters, but.......


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## Dawitner (Apr 25, 2004)

I own two Omegas, I bought the black and synthetic the year they came out and I just bought and set up a stainless/laminated one. Both have Nikons on the top and shoot very well. 

First, throw the Powerbelts in the trash. They are nothing more than an old fashioned conical dressed up in new packaging. The "skirt" is nothing more than window dressing and does not provide a seal. The bullet itself is inherently inaccurte by its basic design. The bullet is designed to swell upon ignition to fill the bore and seal the propelling charges behind it. Upon swelling the bullet has a tendency to come off its axis and exit the bore as such. 

What I have found to be the best charge/bullet combination is two triple 7 pellets (yes just 100 grains, my body will not take the recoil and it is not necessary) and a Barnes Spitfire MZ 285 grain boat tail bullet. 

However this combination did not come easily, with any ML you need trial and error to develop the best load. Depending upon the size of the barrel and how over/under sized it is, some bullet/sabot combinations shoot better than others. 

if you look around there a million bullet/sabot combinations out there. I believe the Thompsons and Knights are made by Barnes, Hornady makes their own but I also believe most of the sabots are made by MMP. I could go on about bullet forever but my best luck has been with the solid copper Barnes. Great penetration with pass through most every time and incredible accuracy. 

Sabots are a whole new issue, you can get them undersized ie: Knight easy loads, regular sized as come with most of the pre-packaged bullets and you can even get them over sized for those cheap, off shore barrels. Check out www.MMPSabots.com for a weath of information. 

The third variable in a ML is powder, I like the Triple 7 but some of its characteristics leave something to be desired. It tends to build up a ring of hard, burned powder just fore of the breech plug. This makes loading follow up shots very difficult. However, it is very easy to clean up. There is a new powder on the market that I have yet to try called Blackhorn 209. Supposed to be non-fouling and very clean. I cant find it anywhere. 

The only real answer to your question is trial and error. Get a bunch of bullets and sabots, some power and head to the range.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Another vote of confidence in great bullet performance for the Barnes Copper Solids. I shot them for many years out of my Knights prior to switching over to the savage MZ.

The Knight Red Hot bullets are the Barnes Copper Solids.

If you can find someone that has some experience with MZ's to go with you on your first range trip it would help you a bunch in getting started correctly and safely.

I could go with you but not until mid Dec sometime. I already have bunches of different bullets, powders (loose and pellet) to try in your gun.

We talked a couple of years ago about trying to have a get together for MZ shooters to share and help each other out where needed. Just couldn't come up with a place to hold it.

good luck


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Thanks a lot for the expertice. I will try the shockwaves or SST's, whichever is the better deal. I shot the sabbots that came with it (not sure which type) and all shots were within a 6" radius at up to 100 yards. Not bad at all...and I'm not the sturdiest shot. Also, what zoom do you set your scope at for a 100 yard shot? I hear it's good to not overdo it as far as zoom goes. I have the Nikon Prostaff (4-8 power).


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## Header (Apr 14, 2004)

The Shockwaves are what i shoot, I've not field shot it, just got it in Feb this last year. The SW's are not a sabot casing so they are a true cal. 50 and not a 45 with the plastic sabot thus they load much easier after a few rounds and my patterns are a silver dollar at 100yds. I'm looking forward to taking one out next week during gun.

Sorry about the miss info. Lundy you are correct ooppss. I just looked and they are Powerbelts and w/o the plastic sabot casing they load very easy.


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## Procraftboats21 (Apr 6, 2004)

any thoughts on the american pioneer powder? or should i stick with triple 7


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

Mushijobah said:


> Thanks a lot for the expertice. I will try the shockwaves or SST's, whichever is the better deal. I shot the sabbots that came with it (not sure which type) and all shots were within a 6" radius at up to 100 yards. Not bad at all...and I'm not the sturdiest shot. Also, what zoom do you set your scope at for a 100 yard shot? I hear it's good to not overdo it as far as zoom goes. I have the Nikon Prostaff (4-8 power).



kyle, you cannot overdo it @ 100 yards with a 4-8x zoom


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Header said:


> The SW's are not a sabot casing so they are a true cal. 50 and not a 45 with the plastic sabot



What bullet are you talking about? The Shockwave does indeed use a plastic sabot, they are not a 50 cal bullet.

The SST and the Shockwave are the identical bullets made by Hornady. One, the Shockwave, is packaged and sold by TC. The SST in Hornady packaging.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Procraftboats21 said:


> any thoughts on the american pioneer powder? or should i stick with triple 7


Not sure.

I do not know of anyone personally that has used that powder. However there is plenty of negative talk on the hunting forums about it the last couple of years.


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## Dawitner (Apr 25, 2004)

I have not shot this powder but any of the reading I have done has given negative reviews. It seems that the powder is very variable on the size of the charge and the velocities produced. 

You cannot go wrong with pyrodex or 777 pellets, for that matter you cannot go wrong with FF powder. Just make sure whatever load you work up and sight in at you stick with. The trick to MZ's it TO DO THE SAME THING EVERY TIME.


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## Dawitner (Apr 25, 2004)

Lundy, if you look at the MMP web site they make a special sabot just for the Savage ML. If I remember my reading correctly that bore tends to be slightly oversized and when using smokeless powder down a front loader the pressure on the powder charge along with the seal on the sabot has to be sufficient to get the powder to lite off. 

Just my $.02


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I do purchase the sabots that I use direct from MMP him they are not the "smokeless" version. He has a better option for the load I shoot.

I also order the HPH 24's from him for a buddy of mine that has a VERY tight Omega barrel. He can't get the standard HPH 12's and a shokwave down his barrel without a hammer. He uses that 24's with Shokwaves and it works great in his gun


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## Reel Thing (Apr 5, 2004)

I've been using the American Pioneer Powder in my Encore not had any problems definitely burns cleaner 
last few years I've been shooting a 200gr Shockwave with 100 powder my shots are less than 65 yards I'm sighted in at 50 yards My preference don't really feel that I need that 100 yard sight seems to do the job
the one shown 50 yards entered the lung area found the slug other side in the upper neck just under the skin ready to exit upon inspection double lung and heart once it hit bone it made the internal damage and started out

Good info here I'm in the process of putting on a omega bdc with see through rings so I don't have to mess with my iron
I think I'm going to try LK setup first with the 250 / 100


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## Darron (Oct 17, 2006)

all you need is 100 gr pyrodex pellets and shoot a 250gr shockwave bullet (yellow tipped). I shoot this out of my TC Omega and the results are unbelievable. I am half tempted to use it during gun season this year. At 50 yards with a 3-7 scope I can put the bullet through the same hole. At 100 yards I am getting 1"-1.5" groups.


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## Dawitner (Apr 25, 2004)

I had to remove the rear sight on both my Omegas to get the scope to fit. I have a 40mm Nikon one and a silver Omega scope on the other. One thing to consider is that the further you put the scope above the center line of the bore the more issues you may have with the accuracy. But that is a whole new subject. 

Don't be half tempted to make the switch to ML's only for gun season. You will harvest as many deer, have more fun and once you do it you will never go back.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Dawitner said:


> Don't be half tempted to make the switch to ML's only for gun season. You will harvest as many deer, have more fun and once you do it you will never go back.


Agree 100%, I made the switch 8-10 years ago and have never regretted it for a second.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

try the triple7 powder, you'll be amazed. especially with 4 wet patches and your clean


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2008)

Just my two cents. I use a shockwaze 300 grain and run 3 50 grain pellets of pyrodex. I shoot a 1 inch grouping at 100 yards. I use a ml for gun season.


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## bigeye1 (Nov 13, 2007)

I also use 300 gr shockwaves w/ 150 grains of pyrodex, and it shoot great groups w/ them


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## dakotaman (Oct 19, 2005)

I've had very good accuracy with shockwaves as well. I LOVE Nosler SHOTS. They have even better terminal performance, accuracy, and even cheaper. $3.00/12 I think. Stocked up and bought all vances had last year. 250 gr., 100 gr 777 pellets, 777 primer = unbelievable accuracy and dead deer and very cheap.


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## ThunderHawk7 (May 3, 2004)

Lundy said:


> Agree 100&#37;, I made the switch 8-10 years ago and have never regretted it for a second.


I also made the switch to hunting with a ML full time about a decade or so ago. I still use my "handle's" namesake to this day. My ThunderHawk has 4 numbers in the serial....I bought it when they first came out. Regretfully, with all of the advances in technology and the way I like to hunt...(Longer Range) etc. I want to upgrade to one of the newer Blackpowder Guns out there. I am looking very seriously at the "Triumph" or the Pro Hunter. 


To get back on Topic,
I like the Shockwaves as well, but I am still using the blunt red tips. I will use them until I run out. They shoot very well out of my TH. I only have about 5 left and then I will make the change I guess. I push them with 90 grains of Pyrodex Powder. Good Luck with whatever you decide to shoot!!!!


Hawk


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Thanks again guys. I'm using the traditons 275 grain ballistic (yellow) tip. I can group pretty well at 100 yards. Is a 300 grain bullet too heavy to be propelled by two 50 gr. pellets of 777?


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## duknut (May 13, 2008)

2- 50 grain triple 7 pellets and a 250 grain shockwave out of my encore, at 100 yards i can put 3 within 1 inch all three deer shot during gun season went down for the count.


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## ThunderHawk7 (May 3, 2004)

Mushijobah said:


> Thanks again guys. I'm using the traditons 275 grain ballistic (yellow) tip. I can group pretty well at 100 yards. Is a 300 grain bullet too heavy to be propelled by two 50 gr. pellets of 777?


I will have to defer to the experts on this one. The other option is just to increase the powder and look for signs of "waste". With the modern ignition systems I would think that "powder burn" would be quite high and waste would not be an issue as with the older percussion systems. That said if you can take the "beating" it may be worth your while to increase the powder if you are going with a bullet that heavy...I will let somebody with a bit more knowledge of ballistics take over on this one....


Hawk


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Mushijobah said:


> Is a 300 grain bullet too heavy to be propelled by two 50 gr. pellets of 777?


No but remember the heavier the bullet the higher the pressure you develop in your barrel and the more recoil

I would not shoot over 2 pellets with a 300 gr bullet.

Why are you considering a 300 gr bullet? The vast majority of the T/C shooters are shooting 240-260 gr bullet very effectively


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

150gr is not overkill. just use what shoots best, frame's gun shoots better with 150gr versus 100gr, i had excellent results with 100gr and never tried 150gr... i use a custom shop barrel


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

I found some shockwave 300 gr. in my basement, that's why. Does anyone use a bullet that heavy? Why is it bad to use more powder with a heavy bullet? Just recoil?


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Mushijobah said:


> Why is it bad to use more powder with a heavy bullet? Just recoil?


Safety!!! When you increase the bullet weight and the powder you increase pressure substantially. You are shooting a TC and they are well made guns so your concerns are minimized somewhat, but you proceed at your own risk.

Hodgen powder lists the MAXIMIM load as 100 gr equivalent.
http://www.hodgdon.com/ml-warning.html

A BUNCH OF SHOOTERS AND GUN MANUFACTURERS RECOMENDATIONS EXCEED THIS LOAD LIMIT

There are some good reasons to shoot a 300 gr bullet depending on the bullet itself. The 300 gr shockwave is a very tough bullet and handles shoulder shots very well without coming apart, that is something the 250 shockwaves have been famous for doing, fragmenting on bone shots. You also can get better downrange retained energy, less wind drift, and even flatter trajectory depending on the BC of the bullets you are comparing.

The only drawback to the 300 gr Shockwave that I have heard consistently is that they are so tough that they give little expansion at typical MZ velocities unless some bone is contacted.

I shoot a 300 gr bullet (Barnes) in preference over a lighter bullet due to the long range ballistic performance advantage it provides to me at the velocities I am shooting.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

if your worried about fragmentation on the 250gr shockwaves, try the bonded ones...


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## ttomcik (Feb 9, 2007)

200gr tc shockwave sabot with two 50 gr pyrodex pellets should get you close to 200 yrds


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