# Crappie genetics.



## bobberbucket

I'm looking for some insight to some interesting things I've observed crappie fishing. 

So yesterday I caught this little 8" black crappie with a neat look to him the picture doesn't do it justice! He had a hunch back big thick hump forehead wider than the rest of his body. Now I've caught some big crappie in that body of water up to 14 1/2" but it's a rarity most of the fish run around 8-11" in that lake. But all of the big ones I've caught there have had that same hunch back look. This little guy is the only small one I've caught with the hunch back I wonder if that fish will turn out to be a big one due to his genetics? Also another body of water I fish has some schools of large white crappie up to 16" that I've seen. Most of the larger 10- 12" fish look the same fish look the same. But I've noticed that the biggest ones that have been caught there 12-16" all have a big almost square shaped mouth. I've caught a few small ones that had the same mouth shape wonder if they will turn into pigs like the other square mouthed crappie. Is this genetics or just coincidence? I thought I'd bring it up here since I've been curious about this for awhile.


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## c. j. stone

As far as the humpbacks, "usually" they grow these with age/maturity-my opinion/observation!(Big, old humpbacked, dark colored, gills are one of my favorite fish!) If you got an 8" in humpedbacked crappie, I'd say it was as fully grown as it's going to get(of course there can be "bigger" ones in the same body of water who might have been feeding a little better than others). Ex-I catch 8" crappie at Wingfoot that I usually keep(no size limits there "Yet! that I know of!) because they have what I refer to as "shoulders" and I can filet them quite nicely.(erieangler51 calls them " cookie cutters"!) This is the typical "keeper"(Moggie also) size there but there are always bigger ones occasionally taken(I've caught them up to 16" at Wft-yes, very rare!). A typical 8" black at Wft can "weigh" as much as a 2-3" white(typically "paper thin") crappie at Berlin! Hopefully, the stockings of channel cats and "no limits" leads to overall bigger fish at both Wft and Moggie. Then, bring on the "limits"! JMHO.


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## bobberbucket

c. j. stone said:


> As far as the humpbacks, "usually" they grow these with age/maturity-my opinion/observation!(Big, old humpbacked, dark colored, gills are one of my favorite fish!) If you got an 8" in humpedbacked crappie, I'd say it was as fully grown as it's going to get(of course there can be "bigger" ones in the same body of water who might have been feeding a little better than others). Ex-I catch 8" crappie at Wingfoot that I usually keep(no size limits there "Yet! that I know of!) because they have what I refer to as "shoulders" and I can filet them quite nicely.(erieangler51 calls them " cookie cutters"!) This is the typical "keeper"(Moggie also) size there but there are always bigger ones occasionally taken(I've caught them up to 16" at Wft-yes, very rare!). A typical 8" black at Wft can "weigh" as much as a 2-3" white(typically "paper thin") crappie at Berlin! Hopefully, the stockings of channel cats and "no limits" leads to overall bigger fish at both Wft and Moggie. Then, bring on the "limits"! JMHO.


The 9" size limit was the best thing to happen to the portagelakes! One particular lake has good sized white crappie 11-16" (smaller ones too) the lake is heavily fished and harvested. Before the size limit went into effect the average fish was 5-7" and it was heavily harvested at that time as well but without limits. Within two years of the 30 fish 9" rule the quality of the fish improved greatly!


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## c. j. stone

c. j. stone said:


> As far as the humpbacks, "usually" they grow these with age/maturity-my opinion/observation!(Big, old humpbacked, dark colored, gills are one of my favorite fish!) If you got an 8" in humpedbacked crappie, I'd say it was as fully grown as it's going to get(of course there can be "bigger" ones in the same body of water who might have been feeding a little better than others). Ex-I catch 8" crappie at Wingfoot that I usually keep(no size limits there "Yet! that I know of!) because they have what I refer to as "shoulders" and I can filet them quite nicely.(erieangler51 calls them " cookie cutters"!) This is the typical "keeper"(Moggie also) size there but there are always bigger ones occasionally taken(I've caught them up to 16" at Wft-yes, very rare!). A typical 8" black at Wft can "weigh" as much as a 2-3" white(typically "paper thin") crappie at Berlin! Hopefully, the stockings of channel cats and "no limits" leads to overall bigger fish at both Wft and Moggie. Then, bring on the "limits"! JMHO.


Meant to say, "an 8" black crappie at Wft(or Moggie) can weigh as much as a 2-3" LONGER white crappie at Berlin(or Milton".


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## Popspastime

I want to say a 8" fish is a 3.5 year old, but correct me if im wrong, not a biologist.


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## matticito

I feel like some at pymatuning can be like that. You can get 11 or 12 inches and you think "that's nice" but then you get an 11 or 12 you can't barely grab.


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## bobberbucket

I was mostly wondering if the small fish that that have the same characteristics (hump back ,square mouth) as the really big slabs would grow up to be really big slabs as well? All of the average fish are like carbon copies even the larger ones look the same. But the really really big ones always either have a hump back or a square mouth at least at the two bodies of water where I catch these fish with that look. Ive only caught a few small ones with the identical look of the biggest ones. And whenever I catch a little one with the looks of the big ones it always catches my attention. And then I wonder as I release it will it be a super slab someday?...


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## mastercatman

Crappie growth rates are highly variable from water body to water body and some high variability can be present within the same water body. Each water body is different and crappie within each can be different basically. Some water bodies can produce 9" crappies in 2-3 years and others may take 5+ years to reach 9"" if they ever do in others. It all depends on available food resources and whether water conditions allow them to take advantage of those resources. A 9" 30 fish limit does not work equally in all water bodies. In many places, including the portage lakes, it has failed to produce larger faster growing fish. There may be some larger fish available, but it is taking longer to grow them when compared to other lakes. Growth rates begin to back slide because not enough fish are being removed to free up resources that would allow the rest to grow. Crappie are prolific and many of our lakes contain many more of them than most us could wrap our heads around. Many water bodies contain so many crappies that liberal harvest alone isn't enough to turn the growth rates around. So what may appear to be heavy harvest really isn't in many cases. Look at the lakes that produce the largest average size crappies such as mosquito, Berlin, and pymatuning, the fishing pressure is immensely heavy by comparison to other lakes.
Quick fact... a fish's eyes grow independent of its body at a continuous rate. So whether or not the body is growing, the eyes will continue to grow. In stunted crappie and sunfish populations this can be very evident. Look at bobberbuckets crappie pictures, the black crappie has large eyes for its body, whereas the white crappie has very small eyes compared to its body size.
The black crappie is very likely an old slow growing fish and the white crappie is very likely a young (comparatively)fast growing fish.


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## mastercatman

Also note, that in many lakes containing both black and white crappie, the white crappie will grow larger faster and do better in general. That is not to say that we don't have plenty of lakes with stunted white crappie around the state. 
The difference in body morphology noted by bobberbucket is not necessarily genetic. It is certainly possible to have fish from the same genetic makeup, same yearclass, and location that just well outperform their brothers and sisters in finding and eating food. This rapid or slow growth can make the body shape appear slightly different from one individual to another, barring hybridization or individual genetic defect.


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## bobberbucket

mastercatman said:


> A 9" 30 fish limit does not work equally in all water bodies. In many places, including the portage lakes, it has failed to produce larger faster growing fish.


While I agree it does not work everywhere. I wouldn't go as far to say that the 9" 30 fish limit hasn't worked in The portagelakes. I've personally noticed an improvement of size and quality of of crappie in the portagelakes since the limits have been in place. The black crappie came out of Nimi I'm not sure how well the limits are working there as it's as full of 8/10" fish as it ever been. The white crappie came from a smaller lake in the portage chain where before the limits you would be lucky to catch an 8" white crappie. Now the average fish is 10" and it's not uncommon to catch several 11-14". Fish with an occasional really nice one 15-16". I know there's a population of black crappie in that lake I don't catch many of them over 9" . Actually i don't catch many blacks in there at all maybe one small black crappie to 20 larger whites. The excellent growth of the white crappie in that lake could be due to the presence of black crappie as you stated. But they were there before the limits and that lake was dink city.


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## bobberbucket

As far as the larger lakes in the portagelakes chain I'd say fishing has improved overall with the limits. The icefishing scene at OSP for example. I've been icefishing OSP for 18 years or so and it was almost always small fish. However in the past 5 years the size numbers and quality of the crappie has increased dramatically. I guess it could be coincidence or other factors that have nothing to do with the limits. But if the limits were a failure why wouldn't the state remove them?


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## mastercatman

I know this thread has mostly run its course, but I'm not on as often as I'd like.
Keep in mind we had two excellent ice seasons where crappie harvest was likely much higher than average years. According to what I've heard, the state is slow to respond, even with data in hand. It is a slow moving process to change fishing regulations as many potential factors are considered before regulations go to print.
I too fish the portage lakes chain religiously and mostly on Nimi. Not saying your wrong, but I haven't noticed any major changes in size structure other than it has become a cookie cutter factory of 8-10" crappies. Been fishing there for nearly 30 years and remember better days of quality fish, long before the regulations were even implemented. Size structure was slipping before the implementation and IMHO is not related to fishing pressure. Simply too many fish and not enough food. This same logic can apply to sunfish. That is why I shake my head when people get all excited about leaving dink fish on the ice. In some places, that may negatively impact a fishery, but not on PLX, where 5" perch and gills are likely MUCH older than the same size fish elsewhere. The redears grow well because they're not competing for zebra mussels with anything else... Food for thought, chew at leisure.


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