# New bass reel recommendations?



## Burks (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm in the market for a dedicated bass reel. My muskie setup is like bringing an AK-47 to a knife fight, but then my ultralight just doesn't have the backbone for hauling hogs out of thick brush.

Here is what I'm looking for:

- Level wind feature
- Ability to hold braid 20-30lbs
- ~$100 or less 
- Durability (yes I know for $100 or less, this is going to be a challenge)

The good thing is I do take care of my equipment with regular cleaning. I'm not a brand junky. If it works, I don't care who makes it!

I'll mainly be using this for pitching, jigging, worming, etc. Just really want something that braided line will work well on. If there is a rod/reel combo out there that would work (willing to bring my budget up to $150 for a combo), I'm all ears. Heck, toss me your rod recommendations while you're at it!

Since I'm already asking questions:

What size braid do you recommend for jigging and such? 30lb too heavy for most baitcasters? I use 65lb on my Abu Garcia 5600BCX but that's a larger reel.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

For my two cents worth and to stay under your $100 limit I'd go with a Shimano Caenan. I have never personally used one them, but I have other Shimano reels, and if the Caenan is anything like them, then you can't go wrong. It's $89.99 in the Bass Pro catalog. If you're going to be doing a lot of pitching and flipping, the best reel for that, hands down, is the Shimano Castaic. It's over your $100 limit at $169.99 at Bass Pro but it cannot be beat for flipping and pitching. I use 50 lb Power Pro for flipping and pitching and the reels will handle that, no problem. It's also a great casting reel. 

As far as rods I use G Loomis, and Shimano, but there are so many other good ones that any brand is going to have something you like. I'm only 5'8" so I use a 6 1/2' rods for pitching and a 7' rods for flipping. Medium heavy or heavy power with a fast or extra fast action tip. Either way you'll want something with enough tip action to pitch well, but and you know this as a muskie angler....... you want something with a good solid backbone.

I am sure you will get a lot of other suggestions, but I hope these ideas helped.


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## Burks (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. I was actually looking at the Castaic. I originally wanted an Abu Garcia Black Max combo but the more I read, the more I didn't want one (even though my buddy has had good *luck* with his).

I'd prefer something, rod wise, with an extra fast tip for those subtle nibbles like I had today wacky worming it. I could feel them very easily on my ultralight but it didn't have the power to set the hook a lot of times, or at least that's my guess.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Lots of good reels out there for $100 and less. The Shimano as mentioned, quantum accurest, and the Lews speed spool (my preference). If you're looking for a good multi purpose rod, I would suggest someing in the 6' 6" to 7' length in a med hvy. Power. Like you said, the fast tip is preferred. I'm a little less "brand loyal" towards rods due to the fact that I haven't found one company that makes a rod that I like for each of my needs. I just have to have a rod in my hands before I buy it....

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## stak45dx1 (Jun 21, 2011)

i have an abu garcia orra (99.99) that i like a lot, has handled plenty of big bass and a 33 inch pike with no problem on a garcia vendetta 7 ft MH. also right now the revo s is on sale at landbigfish.com for the same price, its a heck of a deal, i have that one too and its terrific, serious drag on that thing, 20 lbs!


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Burks if you do decide to go with the Castaic you won't be sorry. The ability to engage the reel with your thumb instead of turning the handle makes flipping and pitching a breeze. It handles lighter lines and heavier lines equally well. It will pitch weightless or lighter weighted baits 30 feet or more with ease. With the variable brake system you can go from complete free spool to all weights out for maximum braking action. And it has an outstanding drag. If there is one downfall to the reel at all, it's the fact that you have to take the side plate off to adjust the braking system. But it's so simple to do, that it's a minor downfall at best. The advantages of the flipping bar, the versatility, the quality, and the performance of the reel more than make up for that slight disadvantage. 

If I sound like a commercial for the reel, I should......... I currently have 4 of them, and if I could afford to change out my Curado's and Citica's for Castaic's I'd have 9 of them. lol


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## Burks (Jun 22, 2011)

Stuck between the castaic and revo. Ill just have to hold them both and see what I like. Sounds good guys! Now to find a rod to match them. Medium heavy with a fast or extra fast tip.


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## USMC_Galloway (May 13, 2011)

I like the vendetta rods that Abu make. I have one with a citica on it and love it, very solid pair. I also have the caenan on a GM M8 6'6 rod. I beat the crap out of both, and they still work fine. the Caenan has more of a plastic feel then the more solid citica, that what an upgrade in price will get ya though.


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## topwater (Dec 22, 2004)

I just got the lew's speed spool reel and love it. $100

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## Shaggy (Oct 24, 2008)

I see lots of people on here that use 65# braid for flippin' and pitchin' although I don't personally see why. You could pull a truck out of the lake with that. I use 30# for worming/jigging etc. and 20# for chuckin' lures. For me those are the sweet spots for the braid/baitcasting combo.

A note on baitcasters. I prefer the centrifugal brakes over the magnetic brakes but with centrifugal you push little pins in and out to add or subtract braking power. When you're looking at reels pop the sideplate and look at those pins. I had a Revo S that whatever holds the pins back broke or wore out. After hearing so many good things about that reel I was shocked to see how cheaply made that mechanism was. Maybe I got a defective one, I dunno.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Shaggy said:


> I see lots of people on here that use 65# braid for flippin' and pitchin' although I don't personally see why. You could pull a truck out of the lake with that. I use 30# for worming/jigging etc. and 20# for chuckin' lures. For me those are the sweet spots for the braid/baitcasting combo.
> 
> A note on baitcasters. I prefer the centrifugal brakes over the magnetic brakes but with centrifugal you push little pins in and out to add or subtract braking power. When you're looking at reels pop the sideplate and look at those pins. I had a Revo S that whatever holds the pins back broke or wore out. After hearing so many good things about that reel I was shocked to see how cheaply made that mechanism was. Maybe I got a defective one, I dunno.


65lb braid could be considered overkill, but if it handles fine, why not use it? Cost the same as 30lb. And you know your not gonna break them off.

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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Heavier braid is also thicker. It doesn't cut into cover as easily as the lighter pound tests. It also doesn't cut into your spool as easy as the lighter pound tests.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

And tends to float better when using for topwaters (frogs, toads...)

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## jason_0545 (Aug 3, 2011)

burks pm sent i would maybe consider using 65 or so down in florida or texas or something where a 18-20lb bass is possible but here in ohio its very unlikely that any of us in our lifetime will catch anything over 13.13 state record i believe so i would think that 30 would be plenty but most of it does cost the same so each is own i guess


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Burks said:


> I'm in the market for a dedicated bass reel. My muskie setup is like bringing an AK-47 to a knife fight, but then my ultralight just doesn't have the backbone for hauling hogs out of thick brush.
> 
> Here is what I'm looking for:
> 
> ...


Under $100? A BPS Pro Qualifier. I've owned a lot of reels, and this is the best baitcaster under $100 IMO.

A Lami Excel XL734C would be good for contact baits:

http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Lamiglas_Excel_Bass_Series_Casting_Rods/descpage-LEBSRC.html

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewlamiglasexcel734c.html


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## lang99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Tokugawa said:


> Under $100? A BPS Pro Qualifier. I've owned a lot of reels, and this is the best baitcaster under $100 IMO.
> 
> A Lami Excel XL734C would be good for contact baits:
> 
> ...


x2 bps pro qualifers are imo the best reel for $100. These are all i use, and i have never had a problem.


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## Flippin 416 (Aug 18, 2005)

x3 on the BPS Pro Qualifier....great reel for the money. The dual braking system is top notch in my book.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

the first time any of you go to heave a 1/2oz zara spook on 30lb braid and because its dug into itself, it stops mid air but the spook keeps going ("shock" is a terrible word for braid) you wont be too confident in 30lb braid.

bottom line, 30lb pound braid will probably hold 30lbs. and in theory, that would seem to be plenty strong enough for bass fishing in ohio. HOWEVER,that is not a shock rating.
mono and floro stretch. so if you set the hook and you have slack in your line when you do so, mono and floro will absorb the shock like a bungee cord.

its a physics lesson that im not capable of teaching but im going to try.

imagine this. say you have a 100lb weight and you drop it from a bridge. the force that this weight lands with far exceeds the 100 lbs it weighs by the time it hits the ground. its all about momentum, mass times velocity. so 100lbs is traveling at x speed, its goint to hit the ground with an insane amount of force, far more then the 100lbs the object weighs.

add a bungee cord (mono or floro)to the scenario thats rated for 100lbs. as the object is falling, the bungee cord slows the object down continually and gradually until it stops. because it is slowing and slowing and slowing due to the bungee cord, eventually it stops and does not break the cord because the amount of force was eventually nullified by the slowing speed. 

exchange bungee cord for a steel cable (braid) rated for 1000lbs. obviously far stronger then the bungee cord however, it does not stretch, so as the object that only wieghs 100lbs is falling, its buiding speed and building momentum and force, by the time it reaches the end of the cable, its force is 100,000 lbs of energy (guessing, not doing the math). obviously, that cable is no match for the little 100lb weight.

braid is a similar entity. in theory and at face value, its far stronger then you think your going to need but if you calculate the energy and momentum that a rod tip can generate along with the fish on the other end of the line, a 1lb, 2lb, 3lb fish can effectively double, tripple, or quadruple in force depending how fast your rod tip got moving when the slack ran out.

if you are using a rod with a soft tip, light action or some sort of crankbait rod that can absorb the energy, you prob wont have to worry but if you are flipping and you set the hook with a flipping rod and their is any slack in your line when you do it, you will break that line about 80% of the time, even if its a 2 lb fish.



i know some of you dont understand this, and i am also aware that i suck at explaining it but the lack of stretch in braid makes it susceptible to breaking with ALOT less stress then anybody would expect. the honest to gods truth is this, 8lb floro or mono can be stronger in certain scenarios then 20 or 30lb braid. this is why 65lb braid is used in heavy cover situations. ive broke 20lb braid on hooksets, ive broke 30lb braid on hooksets. ive never broke 65lb braid on a hookset.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

to summarize.

we are talking about kinetic energy.

if a fish weighs 2lbs, and you set the hook with a rod tip speed of 40 feet per second. that fish is exerting 49 foot pounds of force on the fishing line.


mono and floro slow the shock value thus lowering the feet pounds of force. braid absorbs ALL of the force therefore it has to be much much stronger then equating it to the weight of the fish.

65lb braid is in no way overkill if the rod you are using is heavy action and allocating it for places like texas and florida is asking for trouble. however, 17lb floro or mono can be just as effective.


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## Burks (Jun 22, 2011)

Lordofthepunks - Interesting you posted that today, read on.

Well I bought a Abu Garcia Black Max combo today just for the fun of it (I did order an Abu Garcia Revo from Landbigfish though, going to pair it with a St. Croix rod). It only cost $60, worst case is I just bought a new catfish pole. 

I strung it with 20lb braided Spiderwire......uh.......big mistake. Broke off two lures practicing in my backyard (I'm not new to baitcasters BTW). For whatever reason I would get a dozen great casts and then a crappy one, snapping my line. This is throwing a 3/8oz spinnerbait or 1/4oz crank. So a combo of crappy line and a reel that backlashes at it's own will is not fun. A little PO'd at myself for buying it, but it's only $60. Compared to the $70 worth of lures I lost the other day at Clear Fork, at least I still have SOMETHING to show for my money.  I honestly think the much heavier braided is needed at Clear Fork in certain areas because it's nothing but thick, thick weed growth.

So I restrung with 20lb mono and have had zero issues. I'll be going much heavier on the braided with the Revo. I've backlashed 65lb braid throwing a 1-1.5oz lure and haven't lost one. Whether you want to blame the reel or the line, or both....that's up to you. I'd blame myself but when I can go back to my crappy 5600BCX and wing baits a country mile with no problems I can eliminate myself.

In conclusion I'm not happy with light braided line for MY type of fishing. I'll either use mono or flouro from now on anything under say 30lb test. If I need more strength, I'll just toss on 50lb+ braided.

Edit: If I'm off base here, please educate me. By no means am I an expert or even intermediate.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> the first time any of you go to heave a 1/2oz zara spook on 30lb braid and because its dug into itself, it stops mid air but the spook keeps going ("shock" is a terrible word for braid) you wont be too confident in 30lb braid.
> 
> bottom line, 30lb pound braid will probably hold 30lbs. and in theory, that would seem to be plenty strong enough for bass fishing in ohio. HOWEVER,that is not a shock rating.
> mono and floro stretch. so if you set the hook and you have slack in your line when you do so, mono and floro will absorb the shock like a bungee cord.
> ...


And that folks, is the best explanation I have ever read on OGF!

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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Burks said:


> Lordofthepunks - Interesting you posted that today, read on.
> 
> Well I bought a Abu Garcia Black Max combo today just for the fun of it (I did order an Abu Garcia Revo from Landbigfish though, going to pair it with a St. Croix rod). It only cost $60, worst case is I just bought a new catfish pole.
> 
> ...


experience is everything bro. at least it didnt cost you a fish. 

and i dont want people to think im ragging on braid. it has some awesome qualities but it has its niche and its not for every situation. the stuff needs to be used accordingly or it will do nothing but disappoint, especially if your not experienced with it.

20lb braid is NOT for use on a baitcaster. think about this, most 20lb braid has the same diameter as 6lb test mono. no matter what anyone says, always remember this FACT. the equivelant rating is a realistic, real life value for breaking strength and shock value. 20lb braid is really no stronger then 6lb mono when shocked. and if you can find a bass fisherman who would spool up a baitcaster with 6lb mono, i will give you a trophy.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

It is all about diameter. Match the braid diameter to the diameter you would use if you were using a monofilament like nylon or FC.

That's the easy and short answer!


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## Burks (Jun 22, 2011)

I totally understand you aren't ragging on braid. Like you said, it has it's uses. I first started using braid when I got into muskie fishing. Started with 50lb braid and went to 65lb. I have no fear of breaking one off, even pulling it through thick weeds or over rocks. Heck, had a 46" wrap around a stump and I still yanked her butt out. 

You do raise a good point about 20lb braid being 6lb mono, completely agree. I didn't think of it that way. This "mistake" only cost me $12, big whoop. I'd rather lose $12 than lose a 5lb bass! I just got done respooling my Black Max combo with 50lb Spiderwire, can't wait.

I'll be sharing this link with friends to educate them. Thank you!


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Tokugawa said:


> It is all about diameter. Match the braid diameter to the diameter you would use if you were using a monofilament like nylon or FC.
> 
> That's the easy and short answer!


yes sir, that pretty much puts a nice bow on it. 


i also want to point out that a physics teacher could prob poke all sorts of holes through this and i doubt some of my physics lingo is accurate, but the basic theory is pretty solid.

a man could prob write a book about fishing line and proper uses but i have neither the vocabulary or the grammar for such a task.


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## jason_0545 (Aug 3, 2011)

i had spiderwire braid 20lb test and had same problem happen with 1/2 oz lures, i noticed the tag frayed quickly and started hitting the knot and tag w/super glue but thats a pain switched to suffix braid also 20 lb test and problem solved. i fish a silvermaxx combo and am new this yr to it so backlashing is still at least once or twice a fishing day


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## Flippin 416 (Aug 18, 2005)

Jason....you can also use a rubber bobber stopper to help protect your know if you're fishing around or in heavy cover. It's not the cure-all but it can help out.


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

LOTP,

The concepts you are trying to convey in the bait caster thread are right, but like you said the physics jargon isn't quite right. There are a few concepts at play here.

The concept that you are looking for is impulse, or change in momentum. Impulse is defined as the average force time the amount of time it is applied.

I = F*deltat = deltap

The other concept at play is work (units of force times distance or energy), or the change in energy. These two concepts work together to determine whether your lure will break the line or not.

W = F*deltax (where the force and displacement are parallel to one another, otherwise you need to use some trigonometry)

As you mentioned, with mono/fluoro, the line stretches and allows the lure to stay on because the force gets applied over a longer distance and a longer time. With braid, the line doesn't stretch, so the force gets applied over a shorter distance and shorter time, generating enough force to exceed the breaking strength of the line for a short time.

If you know how far (percentage of length) a particular type of line will stretch before it fails, you could then use Hooke's Law (describes well behaved springs, but works for most simple vibrating systems or when discussing stretch in materials) to estimate how much energy the line can absorb before it fails as well.

Hooke's Law
F = k*x
Potential Energy = (1/2)*k*x^2

Where k is the spring constant that tells you how much force it takes to stretch the spring/line a certain distance. Units of force/distance.

Granted you would be pushing the line beyond where Hooke's Law (true anytime a material fails) is valid, but it will be good for a back of the envelope calculation.

The bottom line is that there is a factor of ~5-10 (if I recall the numbers correctly) in the difference in the amount of stretch in mono/fluoro and braid. This forces the braid to stop the lure in a much shorter time, resulting in putting much higher loads on the line than one might expect when the line suddenly stops during a cast, or even during a hard hook set. Once the breaking strength of the line is exceeded, it will fail.

Joe


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

This is very ironic that this is being discussed. Just the other day me and my brother were out fishing and was debating braid.I thought I knew a cool trick when I handed him a piece of 40lb spiderwire and told him to break it with his hands. He couldnt do it and then I said watch me do it. You should have seen the look on his face when the line snapped. He was in disbelief and asked how i did it. I did excactly as described here. I wrapped the line around my fingers and then held my hands together and pulled them apart as fast as i can and the line snaps. My brother just tried to pull until it broke. Pretty cool how that all translates here.


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## Bimmer (Aug 12, 2011)

topwater said:


> I just got the lew's speed spool reel and love it. $100
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I just bought the tournament and like it a lot so far.


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## Burks (Jun 22, 2011)

Well took the new Black Max combo out with new 50lb braid on it, huge major uber big difference!

Casts a mile (once I got this magnetic drag thing figured out) and I can set the hook with a semi-truck load of force. Braid for wacky rigging is awesome.


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

Just bought a Lew's Tournament MG baitcast and its great! Only problem is that I thought I would like the right hand, but I have to order the lefty....i always reel lefty, and thought i would like the right cuz my cat rigs are right. With cat rigs, I dont jig, which is why right hand is ok. With a bass rod, I gotta jig with my right, so I need the left hander! Other than that, I love the reel. Great price too for $129!


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