# Informal survey



## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

Over the last, call it 30 years, Would you say that there are fewer Common Carp and more Long Nose Gar in the Ohio R and tributaries?


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## livtofsh (May 13, 2004)

Absolutely and a lot less large cats and fewer wipers


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

This was prompted by a chat I had with an old mate the other day. We were sipping brews and jawing about the Carp fishing we used to do with our Zebco 33s and our never fail spots. 
Got round to realizing that the Carp just don't seem to be around in those numbers and sizes like they were. 

I am curious if this is just local to me, or widespread.


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## fishkiller (Feb 6, 2007)

I know there are electro shock surveys taken by private company’s every year. If a person were able to obtain this data it very possibly would show fish population trends.


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## livtofsh (May 13, 2004)

I very rarely see any carp in river anymore


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

fishkiller said:


> I know there are electro shock surveys taken by private company’s every year. If a person were able to obtain this data it very possibly would show fish population trends.


That is interesting, I was not aware that anyone outside of the DNR's, or equivalents, did that. 
Or even could do that legally. 

Do you know who is doing those ESS's?


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## fishkiller (Feb 6, 2007)

I have been in Pike Island pool
and seen them late in the fall. It was being done for power company’s to provide information on fish populations. I think most of the survey was concentrated close to the dams for some reason. Just a small John boat 2 guys & a girl, don’t remember where they were from, maybe MO.


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

There is lots of data to support this. As the river gets healthier the species that were more sensitive to/effected by pollutants are now outcompeting the once overabundance carp, white suckers, and bullheads that at one time were the fish that could survive. Now the river has great populations of native suckers, certain native predators are coming back such as walleye, even musky. Blue cats were rare in ohio, now despite the ridiculous commercial paylake problems it's very easy to find smaller blues, though the big ones are all netted out. As for the hybrid populations those are very cyclical, probably due more to environmental (Water level) effects on recruitment of newly stocked fish.

So if the question is are there fewer carp and more get, 100% correct, data shows it.
If the question is are the get outcompeting or eating other fish as they continue to rebound to natural levels, no, that's silly, there is zero data to support that. There is just a lot of perfect get habitat and lots of shad and shiners to eat.


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

ORSANCO (Ohio river valley water sanitation commission) has been using electrofishing as one of the means of tracking the health of the river for years. The above post is based partially on data from them, some just from experience.

The private companies are probably hiring environmental impact companies to keep an eye on things to stay compliant with regulations if there are private boats shocking fish, otherwise you can get in trouble for that lol


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

riverKing said:


> private companies are probably hiring environmental impact companies to keep an eye on things to stay compliant with regulations


Precisely what I did on the Ohio River for 4 years in the '70's. 

Dayton Power & Light funded an impact study, monitoring the effects of thermal discharges from their power plants. Spent 1 weekend/month shocking & collecting data around the J.M. Stuart plant @ Aberdeen.

University also had crews working other locations on the Ohio, the Great Miami & the Wabash.


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

riverKing said:


> There is lots of data to support this. As the river gets healthier the species that were more sensitive to/effected by pollutants are now outcompeting the once overabundance carp, white suckers, and bullheads that at one time were the fish that could survive. Now the river has great populations of native suckers, certain native predators are coming back such as walleye, even musky. Blue cats were rare in ohio, now despite the ridiculous commercial paylake problems it's very easy to find smaller blues, though the big ones are all netted out. As for the hybrid populations those are very cyclical, probably due more to environmental (Water level) effects on recruitment of newly stocked fish.
> 
> So if the question is are there fewer carp and more get, 100% correct, data shows it.
> If the question is are the get outcompeting or eating other fish as they continue to rebound to natural levels, no, that's silly, there is zero data to support that. There is just a lot of perfect get habitat and lots of shad and shiners to eat.


Now throw Bighead and Silver Asian Carp in the mix...


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

They have been in the cinci are a for over a decade and have yet to affect anything. My guess is that They will fill up the habitat that they prefer but will not likely take over in the upper Ohio drainage. The habitat is not as good(not enough large floodplain sloughs ect) and the native fish populations are strong, though we could get some gator gar up here to eat them and I would be happy to see a great native return lol. Truthfully this is speculation, however they have been present in many other areas for years without destroying everything, but in areas with poor native fish populations and degraded habitat (think Illinois river) they have completely taken over all the basically competitionless habitat. Quite frankly while I'm glad that the fish conservation world has a scary threat to gain a bit of funding from I personally doubt they will destroy or even have a major effect on the upper Ohio, or the great lakes, except for possibly Sandusky bay, as there is deraded habitat there that is well suited to them.


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