# Every time I catch a flathead



## shadpocket (Jan 18, 2010)

Everytime I catch a flathead from my favorite local lake I fish. I always wonder if it's one I helped saved.
Back about 5 years ago I used to fish the pay-lakes alot. One in particular was like my second home. I was there 3 to 4 nights a week in the summer.
 Didn't take long before I started noticing this old truck with a big tank in the bed of it come in and out of the place twice a week.
Well ,One afternoon while trying to get some bait at the local state park. This truck showed up with the tank. Along with another one with a jonboat. 
Two guys put the boat in at the ramp that I was fishing beside and headed for the shallow coves. Neither one had any poles with them. They ran all over the lake going from cove to cove. Needless to say , I was curious to see what they was up to, so I stuck around for a while. After about 2 hours of zig zagging cove to cove ,they headed back to the ramp. I was suprized to see the amount of fish they had in the boat. And even more suprized how they were bragging to me about how easy it was to catch them on trotlines ,and sell them to the local pay ponds. looked like around 10 decent channels ,and 5 flatheads ( 2 were pushing 20# range).
They laughed and bragged the whole time they loaded up there boat and fish, then drove away. I packed up my stuf and headed to my second home, only to find the same guys there, with the truck backed up to a small holding pond unloading their catch. It was an eye opener to see these fish raped from their natural habbitat, only to spend the rest of thier lives in what would seem like a fish tank to them. It was enough to trigger somthing in me to start a mission. So for the next year I fished this pay-lake hard ( along with a few others). Targeting mainly flatheads. I even paid for a few tickets for my friends to fish with me.
I won't go into details on the mission,,,But ,,I will say,,,
Everytime I catch a flathead from my favorite fishing lake,,I wonder if it's one I helped save.
I didn't write this to say I'm against pay-lakes. ( I've got a friend that owns one and I love catching the big blues he's got in there, after he closes in the winter ). I guess knowing the impact this would have on the public lakes ,and, the fish was enough for me to ,,,,Lets say ,,Give back. Guess I was stupid for thinking those fish were only supplied from the rivers. I'm not saying what I did was right. The same as those guys didn't think they were doing anything wrong. I can say I never saw that truck again ,,and have never paid to fish another pay-lake since.


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

yup, that sucks! whats sad is they are no doubt only getting .50 a pound for them. thats what some guys i ran into bragged about years ago and found out was the going rate at that time statewide. guys i ran into only had 1 30lb fish and a 10lb fish and were heading to Lake Hidy near Hamilton. thats only 20 bucks and bet they spent that on gas, bait, time, etc. i think most #^%@$#^ do that crap just to show off. "hey look at what i caught and how i supply the fish you catch". geez, get a freakin real job or collect cans or something freakin no good ignorant, uneducated $#%@$#%@$#%@!


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

It's just a shame that there are people in this world that are selfish and stupid enough to do crap like that. If I were in your shoes and saw something like that happening, I would have done the same thing. I've ran into people like that before, they are complete idiots.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

You've confused me big time. Wheter your for the paylakes or against them really doesn't matter to me, but how can you say your agasint them and seem happy about catching them and putting them back in a lake but then turn right around and say how fun it it to catch the blue cats out of your buddy's pay lake? 

I used to be against them, but after talking to folks who have a different view than mine, I've had a change of heart. I think it's a select few "bad" paylakes that ruin the image for others that are simply trying to provide an easy to access place to fish.

I'm 100% a CPR guy.... so what's better the guys who keep everything they catch from the local rivers/lakes or a paylake where the fish over 10# are going back each time.

Just some food for thought. I've spent way too many hours and posts arguing my former views and really don't care either way anymore. I say do what you want and have fun. Too many times I've found myself fishing for the wrong reasons and not doing it to have a good time and relax.


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## shadpocket (Jan 18, 2010)

H2O Mellon said:


> You've confused me big time. Wheter your for the paylakes or against them really doesn't matter to me, but how can you say your agasint them and seem happy about catching them and putting them back in a lake but then turn right around and say how fun it it to catch the blue cats out of your buddy's pay lake?
> 
> I used to be against them, but after talking to folks who have a different view than mine, I've had a change of heart. I think it's a select few "bad" paylakes that ruin the image for others that are simply trying to provide an easy to access place to fish.
> 
> ...


 I'm not against them. And yes I do go catch blues out'a my buddies ponds.
I said,,, I don't support them anymore. $$$$$ . Much more enjoyable to fish public waters. Just because I only fish public waters ,Doesn't mean I automatically keep everything that I catch. If I didn't beleave in CPR,,I wouldn't have spent a year doing what I posted.


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## BigBag (Jan 11, 2009)

Just keep in mind, that catching them from a pay lake and transfering them back to a regular lake is against the law also... Pay lakes are heavily stocked, and thus the chance of diseases in the population are greater, therefore you could introduce something bad back into the lake you were trying to help. Other than that, good story.


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## shadpocket (Jan 18, 2010)

BigBag said:


> Just keep in mind, that catching them from a pay lake and transfering them back to a regular lake is against the law also... Pay lakes are heavily stocked, and thus the chance of diseases in the population are greater, therefore you could introduce something bad back into the lake you were trying to help. Other than that, good story.


This is true ,,and I'm glad you bring this up. This would also apply to the baitfish we use. ( I know I've thrown off my fair share of bait ). Catch your bait from the water your fishing.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Great point Shadpocket. Lots of folks and I am guilty of this myself.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I have no problems with paylakes as long as they get there fish legal.

Catching flatheads from inland rivers, and lakes in Ohio, then selling them to paylakes is illegal.


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## Catproinnovations (Dec 8, 2009)

i have a problem with paylakes...... its like sticking a great dane in a 4 ft x 4 ft. cage all its life. bottom line is its just not right! Then on top of it people that go and fish them are bragging about what they caught!! SERIOUSLY..... come on now!!!! Just look at the pictures of the fish caught out of them especially the blues and flats they are soo stinkin skinny and mal-nurished. Its like watching one of those help the starving kids in africa commercials!

LEARN HOW TOO FISH! CATCHING FISH OUT OF PAYLAKES DONT COUNT!!

If it were up to me I think all the damn paylakes should be shut down!

There is no damn excuse in the book to do that to those fish! Ive been reading these paylake threads listening to excuse after excuse why people are justifying themselves about going....... What kind of sportsmen would do this to the thing they cherish so much! Cause you wanna have fun and catch a big fish?????

Well learn the right way to do it and one day you will!


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

first off let me say that i have never fished a pay lake and never will.............however if they buy their fish legitimately from people who raise the fish legally for sale then i have no problem with pay lakes at all..........IF a paylake is removing fish from public waters then i have a BIG PROBLEM with that..........as someone else said a FEW BAD PAYLAKES have given ALL PAYLAKES A BAD REPUTATION................not ALL PAY LAKES get their fish ILLEGALLY............as far as the rant about learning how to fish..........not everyone is "professional catfish anglers" some people are weekend anglers who fish for something called FUN..........and believe it or not some people only fish a few times a year and they do it as a "escape" .........a paylake in my opinion IS a place for people to go that are looking for the "easy bite"...........they want to KNOW they can catch a big fish from the body of water they are fishing in and that IS WHY THEY PAY TO FISH.............if someone catches a big flattie or bluecat from a paylake and is bragging online about it i dont give them much credit at all...........to me it is like fishing in a fish bowl .........however to each their own i wont come on line and rant about some people needing to learn how to fish !!!


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## catmanbennie (Jan 15, 2010)

I fish paylakes,rivers,lakes,and creeks.I have been fishing all my life.I forgot more than some people know.Paylaking for me is something I like to do.If I had a boat! It would be a different story point blank. So to say that paylakers need to learn how to fish is a joke to me.Because I guarantee you If you put these guys on the river with the right equipment they would be no diffrent then anybody else that fishes the river.Not only that.Paylaking is not the only fishing I know.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I have a nice boat set up for river fishing... and I have no desire to use it, at least not much of a desire. Owning a boat isn't everything. Lots of us have jobs that take up a nice chunk of time then kids and family life. 

I got to agree w/ Brian (TCBA). I also have to question posts that berate paylakes from folks who are trying to profit from the catfish industry. There seems to be an abvious conflict of intrest there.

I used to be a big basher of paylakes but I've grown up and realized that just becasue someone fishes a different way than I do/did doesn't make it wrong. 

Anyways, I think it's time everyone tries to get along.


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## catmanbennie (Jan 15, 2010)

H2O Mellon said:


> I have a nice boat set up for river fishing... and I have no desire to use it, at least not much of a desire. Owning a boat isn't everything. Lots of us have jobs that take up a nice junk of time then kids and family life.
> 
> I got to agree w/ Brian (TCBA). I also have to question posts that berate paylakes from folks who are trying to profit from the catfish industry. There seems to be an abvious conflict of intrest there.
> 
> ...


Well said Mellon!Fishing is what we all love to do .


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## AkronCATS (Nov 5, 2008)

Wow this is always a hot topic eh? Here's my 2 cents worth. I have also never fished a pay lake and I don't ever see myself fishing one. I agree that it would be like fishing in a fish bowl, so to me it's no challenge. Also, for those who know me, there is no way in heck I would sit 4 foot from someone I don't even know and deal with them crossing my lines all night. Heck I've casted 5 oz sinkers at boats that came within 30 yds of me on the lake. However, if it amuses somebody to go pay good money to catch a "big fish" out of a pond than to each his own. I do agree with Chad that it is a little cruel to keep a big flathead or blue in a small pond, but it's also a little cruel to hook a blue gill in the back and make him swim around in circles all night fearing for his life, but I still do it. LIfe is cruel and it's great to be the predator. Now to the subject of these guys that illegally stock the pay lakes with fish from the real world. There should be a very serious penalty for doing this. All parties involved with this process should be put in jail for a long time. Make the punishment so bad that noone would ever risk doing it. There is the solution, vote Steve for pres in 2012!!


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## AkronCATS (Nov 5, 2008)

Ok just thought of something else while sitting on my throne looking at the tile foor (this is where I do all my great thinking) I'm not sure how it works for catfish, but I know if you take a goldfish and put it in a small fish bowl, it will stay pretty small it's whole life. However, if you put that same goldfish in a 100 gallon aquarium, it will grow a lot bigger than the one in the small bowl. If this is true for flatheads and blues, than how do those fish in the pay lakes get so big? If in fact they can't grow to 50+ lbs in those smaller ponds than where do they come from? Are there any "experts" reading that can shed some light? Again, I'm not making any accusations about pay lakes, I really don't know the answers to those questions. But if it's not possible for those fish to grow that big in that environment, than a lot of paylakes have a lot of explaining to do. If it is possible than it's all good with me.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I have fished paylakes, it is not like fishing in a bowl.

I have been fishing for river flatheads for 25 years.

I had back surgery about 2 years ago, and I have trouble walking long distnaces, and rough terain to get to river spots.

So I fished a few paylakes last year, and what I found out was it was harder than catching a big flathead in a river system.

It is a whole new skill level to catch paylake fish.

I am still a river fisherman, and have never kept a catfish in all thease years.

And I used to bash paylakes, untill I went a few times.

But I will not post a picture on here, unless it is of a wild river catfish.

There is pay lake forums where people post pictures of there catch.

I dont have a boat, nor the money to make long trips to catch bluecats.

SO, if it is legal and it is in some states for comercial fisherman to havest fish and sell them to paylakes..Then I think I will go catch me a big blue cat!


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

AkronCATS said:


> Ok just thought of something else while sitting on my throne looking at the tile foor (this is where I do all my great thinking) I'm not sure how it works for catfish, but I know if you take a goldfish and put it in a small fish bowl, it will stay pretty small it's whole life. However, if you put that same goldfish in a 100 gallon aquarium, it will grow a lot bigger than the one in the small bowl. If this is true for flatheads and blues, than how do those fish in the pay lakes get so big? If in fact they can't grow to 50+ lbs in those smaller ponds than where do they come from? Are there any "experts" reading that can shed some light? Again, I'm not making any accusations about pay lakes, I really don't know the answers to those questions. But if it's not possible for those fish to grow that big in that environment, than a lot of paylakes have a lot of explaining to do. If it is possible than it's all good with me.


the answer to your question is simple, paylakes get there trophy fish from commercial fishermen...It is legal in some states and they are transported to Ohio to be sold...It is also legal I think on the Ohio river, because Kentucky allows comercial fishing.


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## fishdealer04 (Aug 27, 2006)

flathunter said:


> the answer to your question is simple, paylakes get there trophy fish from commercial fishermen...It is legal in some states and they are transported to Ohio to be sold...It is also legal I think on the Ohio river, because Kentucky allows comercial fishing.


The big cats in the paylakes are coming from the wild. It costs too much and is too hard to grow large cats at fish farms. Commercial fishing is allowed in a lot of states (not Ohio) I dont really like what they are doing....but at the same time if they have the license and are following all the rules then I cant really say or do anything about it.

Commercial fishing is allowed on the Ohio river through KY....HOWEVER you need to be in KY water you can't be on the Ohio side...and no KY does not own the whole river. On top of that if a commercial fisherman uses and Ohio ramp he will be fined as he is breaking Ohio law. He can put his boat in...but can NOT bring his catch back to an Ohio ramp.

As far as paylakes go...I learned how to fish at Lake Isabella a Hamilton County park....You had to buy a license to fish it so I consider that a pay lake. I grew up fishing with my dad for rainbow trout and channel cats which we took home and ate. All of these are farm raised though. I fished paylakes for big cats for 1 summer. I had a lot of great times with friends there. Some paylakes are really bad, in the sense that they don't take care of their fish and the people fishing dont take care of the fish. At the same time I fished a couple lakes that took very good care of their fish and anyone that was not treating the fish with respect was kicked out.

I got introduced to river fishing from Mellon and Mark and I have not been back to a paylake since. I find river fishing much more challenging than paylaking....No I am not saying catching fish in a paylake is easy as I was skunked many times, however reading a river, finding bait, structure, and fish on the river is much more challenging. The river is always changing, structure comes and goes, fish move around, bait moves around, water levels go up and down, current is really fast or non-existent....just much more challenging in my book. On top of that the fish in the river fight much harder than any catfish I have caught in a lake..that goes for paylake and state parks.

If people want to fish paylakes then let them do it. As long as they are doing it legally and treating the fish right it doesnt bother me. I do think though the excuse of not having a boat is the reason that people paylake seems a little lame to me as there is a lot of bank access on the rivers and lakes and people could very well fish that instead....yes a boat helps, but it is not needed.

Sorry about the novel...people just need to do what makes them happy. If fishing makes you happy...then fish...whether it is a pay pond, lake, river, ocean, puddle, fish tank...whatever just go out and fish.


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

flathunter said:


> I have fished paylakes, it is not like fishing in a bowl.
> 
> I have been fishing for river flatheads for 25 years.
> 
> ...


that is true in some of your better payponds. now the ones that are small, no forage fish, shallow, and have fishbowl sized ponds that are stocked full of too many fish then its fairly easy. the ones i used to frequent were not your modern "fishbowl" lakes and had lots of structure you HAD to know well to catch fish consistently. 

take a river fisherman out of his "environment" and put him at a good sized pay pond and he will not know what to do, it simply isnt just tossing out a big hunk of shad on the bottom near some wood, that will get you nothing. 

some of the paypond guys i learned from in the past were some of the most knowlegeable, patient, and precise fishermen i have ever known. the only type fishermen i could compare them to are the European Carp anglers. if the fish werent biting they could even MAKE the fish bite with the right "presentation".


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Good posts Brian and Dink and yes... even you Flathunter!


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## Randy101 (Jan 7, 2010)

I knew it wouldn't be long before this topic came up...... and I think I'll just stay out of it because not much good has come out of topics like this in the past.

Good luck in 2010 everyone

PS, taking the big fish from a pay lake is stealing ya know....


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## pendog66 (Mar 23, 2005)

am i seeing things? a paylake thread without death threats, we must be evolving


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Yes Nate I think we all are. Randy has a nice site over there, check it out guys.


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## pendog66 (Mar 23, 2005)

H2O Mellon said:


> Yes Nate I think we all are. Randy has a nice site over there, check it out guys.


ive checked it out, for some reason my computer wont let me register


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

AkronCATS said:


> I'm not sure how it works for catfish, but I know if you take a goldfish and put it in a small fish bowl, it will stay pretty small it's whole life. However, if you put that same goldfish in a 100 gallon aquarium, it will grow a lot bigger than the one in the small bowl. If this is true for flatheads and blues, than how do those fish in the pay lakes get so big? If in fact they can't grow to 50+ lbs in those smaller ponds than where do they come from? Are there any "experts" reading that can shed some light? Again, I'm not making any accusations about pay lakes, I really don't know the answers to those questions. But if it's not possible for those fish to grow that big in that environment, than a lot of paylakes have a lot of explaining to do. If it is possible than it's all good with me.


most, but not all the fish stocked in a paylake dont make it past the first year in the lake. they end up dying and sinking to the bottom, some rise up when they fill with gasses from decaying, most get eaten up by the crayfish while on the bottom before they can decay. 

that being said, payponds that specialize in BIG fish have to continually keep stocking them. 

channel cats may make it a week if the lake gets a lot of buisness. i have seen some lakes cleaned out within hours of stocking channel cats if they go in hungry.


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## Randy101 (Jan 7, 2010)

pendog66 said:


> ive checked it out, for some reason my computer wont let me register


What exactly is it not letting you do ? maybe I can help.


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## Jackfish (Apr 15, 2004)

I take my little one's to a paylake a few times a year.

Someone explain this to me...

My biggest paylake fish is about double the size of my biggest wild fish, yet for some reason I don't count the paylake fish. I don't have any cool pics of the paylake fish, and while fun, was simple that, fun. My biggest wild fish had me shaking for 30 mins after, totally pumped up.

Yet my little 4yr old girl pulled up an 8lb channel out of a paylake last fall, and heck ya, it counted in my mind as a "real" fish. 

Not sure why that is, but that is my input!


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## fishdealer04 (Aug 27, 2006)

Jackfish said:


> I take my little one's to a paylake a few times a year.
> 
> Someone explain this to me...
> 
> ...


The biggest flathead and the biggest blue that I have caught have both come from paylakes. I count them, they were fun to catch and I was pretty excited as I caught them both in the same night.

However I have caught wild fish from the river that weighed half as much as those fish did, yet they fought harder and longer than they did. My heart wa racing the whole time and like you said for 30 minutes after when I catch a nice fish in the river.


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