# Seriously...................What is Wrong ???



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

Maybe it is just me and the few guys that i have talked to ...........who knows...............but i just aint seeing deer this year !! ive hunted all 3 days and havent SEEN a deer yet !! i am hunting in Tusc County and on good farms and mostly private property and i am hardly even hearing any shooting !! i mean the farms i am hunting on in the past years i would see upwards of 20 deer a day and that was while sitting on stand (not walk hunting and jumping them up) and i am not kidding you i havent seen a deer. How has everyone elses luck been ?? im wondering if the disease in the deers hit them harder then some people think it did ?? what do you guys think ??


----------



## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

Aint seen jack in my neck of the woods. Talked with locals too and they havent seen any thing either. Im debating weather or not to go out tomorrow. I go back to work friday so its my last chance to go. This is the worst year ive ever seen. They say that the opening day numbers are down by 20,000. Thats a chunk of deer. The weather and the rut really didnt line up this year and i think it may be the big problem, or mabey its the aliens ubducting all the deer.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

i would start considering weather.Monday Rain,Tuesday wind, today wind.And the fact we have a record archery kill going.The weather has kept people from going out and couple that with a large number of tags filled.No pressure and bad weather mean deer arent moving.


----------



## Fishstix (Aug 16, 2005)

I haven't been out yet, but dad and his buddies have and they have been seeing deer, but really no bucks. Dad saw a 6 point on Monday and his buddy saw another buck. Tuesday and today they saw nothing but Does. I am hoping for a good turn out in the woods this weekend to get the deer pushed. 

In the area I hunt, there are two 40 acre plots and an 80 acre plot of woods that have pretty good hunting pressure. There is also a 160 acre plot of woods that no one is allowed to hunt. My guess is that most of the deer are over there since no one is bothering them.

It has always been like this the later the gun season goes on for us. About 5 years ago, we got permission to walk through the woods, but not carry a firearm, just to get the deer moving. Wouldn't you know it, 19 Does came down the hill to me. I know that is where they are all at, I just have to be patient and hope that one wonders my way this weekend.


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

oh im gonna be patient and hunt as much as possible. i know that eventually ....i WILL get a shot at a deer !! plus ive got the 2nd gun season and muzzleloader season to hunt and i have a crossbow so i am in no hurry !! i contribute alot of the lack of deer to the weather conditions for sure.........and lack of hunting pressure.......... MOST guys request off opening day weeks in advance and we had HEAVY rain all day so many people stayed home and wont get to hunt till the weekend. i just HATE driving deer but i think that may be theonly way to get a shot before the weekend when everyone will be out again !!! i think that the kill numbers are gonna be WAY DOWN even with the added bow permits this year for does !!!


----------



## ClickerCrazy (Feb 4, 2006)

I know that around Washington Co. the EHD hit our deer very bad. I know the weather bad and yadda yadda, but the fact stands that the same fields that used to be FULL of deer in the evenings are virtually empty, and have been for months. We found two more dead along the creek yesterday. Looked like they had been there for a few weeks, but I'm still seeing alot of bugs out when the temps hit the 50 degree mark. I think there are still some deer dying around here, but you are not smelling them like you did when the temps were up.


----------



## CHOPIQ (Apr 6, 2004)

I talked to my deer processor last night an dhe said Wednesday it has really started picing up. He said first couple of days slow but yesterday it almost doubleed.


----------



## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

tons of deer here in licking county... seen 30+ this week.


----------



## EMRDUCKS (Jun 28, 2004)

Got Back Yesterday From Harrison Co. Hunted Public Land Mon And Tue Morn. Saw Nothing. Hooked Up With 5 Friends And Hunted Private Land Tue Afternoon And Wed Morn. They Had 2 Deer By Tues Morn. Tues Afternoon I Saw Nothing But One Guy Got A Small Doe And A Nother A Small Piebald Doe. Looks Really Cool Almost All White. I Saw 3 Deer Wed Morn But Way Out Of Range. Numbers Are Down Bad. I'll Give It Hell Up Here This Weekend. Good Luck


----------



## woodysoutdoors (May 18, 2007)

We have been out a few times as well as other family members..muskingum area but mostly perry state forest, (morgan county), wolf creek-wild cat hollow area, and 29 acreas of private land that connects to wayne national forest. Not seen a thing! Brother did get an 8 point with a bow on the 29 acreas private land in morgan county. 

I have to agree they just are not out there. I thought maybe it was b/c we are hunting morgan and normally we hunt muskingum. I just don't know. 

weather is terrbile.

I can't see a darn thing in the woods but 4 doe one poss a buck crossed right in front of me when I was driving about 11am yesterday morning. I stopped they jumped onto the bank turned and stood there looking at me as to taunt me. I drove off and they still were just standing there.


----------



## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)

My father, his friend and myself were tagged out by tuesday morning at 9:30am. Pops and his friend killed a couple young bucks Monday in the rain, and Tuesday I killed an 8 pt and doe, and both of them got a doe in by 9:30.

Monday mid morning we must have seen 30 to 40 deer, it was amazing.

I think the weather has a big impact on the harvest numbers, but I don't think it's effecting the deer, but rather the ammount of PEOPLE out in the woods. It's hard to sit still in the pooring down cold rain, but if you did you got something.

btw, we hunt in licking county, and are allowed 3 deer each. We just decided 6 deer to butcher was enough at the moment, and are saving our last tag (which isn't even purchased yet) for the 2nd gun season, or muzzeloading.

Good luck


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

MLAROSA said:


> I think the weather has a big impact on the harvest numbers, but I don't think it's effecting the deer, but rather the ammount of PEOPLE out in the woods. It's hard to sit still in the pooring down cold rain, but if you did you got something.


I agree that the weather has played a big part but I wouldn't go as far as saying it didn't affect the deer. I agree that there were no hunters on Monday in my area to move the deer but if the deer were unaffected then they would have moved like normal. I sat in my stand all but 1 hour of the entire hunting day on Monday and saw nothing from the stand. That tells me they were hunkered down and waiting out the weather. I haven't been out again since so I can not comment on the rest of the week thus far.


----------



## carterfish (Sep 9, 2007)

I am in Allen county Ive been out mon. tue, and this morning. Have seen 4 deer, 1 skunk, and a fox. They are sitting tight!! The ones I saw were flushed by the only other hunter in the area. PATIENCE


----------



## ncraft150 (Apr 5, 2004)

I wont be down there til tomorrow, but from what my brother-in-law says they've seen only bucks on their farm. Only one of them was a shooter. A nice 10 point. They have been letting the rest walk. Problem is 4 or 5 does are usually taken for meat by now, but they are not seeing any does this year.


----------



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Perry Co. numbers are way down, we have been finding dead ones all fall. Trails are void of prints.....trail cams have very few hits, stand sitting bears few sightings. ODNR insists that EHD is not a significant event....... but then they also said it wouldn't migrate to domestic stock, until the local dairy farmers ( and Vets...) confirmed it in their herds.... so the bottom line is , they really don't know much about it or how many deer have been killed by it. They will balme the weather and many other things before they admit there is a serious problem with the virus and scare potential permit buyers away.....


----------



## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

licking county numbers are great... i've seen a ton of deer this week


----------



## TexasPete (Apr 26, 2005)

I've hunted pretty much every day this week and decided no to go out this morning with the wind gusts approaching 30 mph here in Dublin. I hunt 10 min from my place in Union co. on 1,100 acres of private land and I've only seen one deer this week and no shot opportunities. After being drenched for a couple of hours in the stand on Monday, my roommate and I decide to still hunt through the wood plots and we kicked up a doe out of some thick stuff and she bolted immediately and didn't look back. It was my buddy's first deer hunt with the apprentice license and I was disappointed that he didn't see more than a white tail prancing through the woods at 40 miles an hour. Nothing Tuesday and nothing yesterday. It's like a ghost town in these woods. Not a good gun season to have an entire week scheduled off. Oh well, I took this week off months ago and I've enjoyed not sitting in the cubicle on the phone with clients all day long. Good luck to ya'll. TP


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> licking county numbers are great... i've seen a ton of deer this week


i can't hunt anymore,but seen lots of deer in this area this year just while driving to and fro.a friend and his son have scored two nice bucks so far and seen more.i now live 15 minutes from my old hunting grounds and wish i could still get out,cause there's plenty here.of course i could just go sit on my son's deck and get one if i really felt like itsince they travel and bed around his house regularly (where i also used to live and hunt).


----------



## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

TexasPete said:


> I've hunted pretty much every day this week and decided no to go out this morning with the wind gusts approaching 30 mph here in Dublin. I hunt 10 min from my place in Union co. on 1,100 acres of private land and I've only seen one deer this week and no shot opportunities. After being drenched for a couple of hours in the stand on Monday, my roommate and I decide to still hunt through the wood plots and we kicked up a doe out of some thick stuff and she bolted immediately and didn't look back. It was my buddy's first deer hunt with the apprentice license and I was disappointed that he didn't see more than a white tail prancing through the woods at 40 miles an hour. Nothing Tuesday and nothing yesterday. It's like a ghost town in these woods. Not a good gun season to have an entire week scheduled off. Oh well, I took this week off months ago and I've enjoyed not sitting in the cubicle on the phone with clients all day long. Good luck to ya'll. TP


deer will still move in the wind. windy days do not mean that deer are locked up tight.


----------



## CrowellR18 (Nov 29, 2007)

Ive been hunting in Columbiana County at private farms rangin from 50 acres to 300 acres. One guy from my group got a small 7 pointer and another guy got a button buck. As far as number go so far this week i have seen probably 10 deer all does none of which were in shooting range and my dad has seen upwards of 30. The weather has played a huge factor with it being nearly impossible to hear or see the deer. What a difference a little bit of snow would make. Overall, we really havent been hearing many shots and the deer count seems to be much lower than previous seasons. Hopefully a bunch of guys will be in the woods this weekend to get the deer moving.


----------



## mrtwister_jbo (Apr 7, 2004)

monday mornin 4hrs under roof on 240 acres,mrs t an me ,1 small buck an 1 small doe.no shots----- monday afternoon,wife set under roof,i walked,got soaked but jumped around 10 does,an 1 spike (took a shot at him with my 44mag,wounded a small oak at about 20yrds) wife seen 2 does 
tuesday didn't get out till about 9:30-9:45 wife shot hers at 10:30,i didn't see any deer that day at all hunted all afternoon.same 240 acres
wednesday mornin hunted sameplace seen nothing all mornin,went 2 125 acre
farm on jefferson/harrison co line.seen 14 does,an 2 small bucks,didn't have any shots at the bucks.theres been 3 button's,1 big doe.(buddy got small 8pt 2day) taken so far at the farm.last yr we took 20+ off last yr 
thursday wife b-day so i only hunt till noon,went 2 the same 240 acres,hunted up this real brushy draw right on the corner of our property,the only property line that has house's againest it.well u know what happen next
the closer i got to the line the hair stood up on my neck as i knew what was going 2 happen,an up jumps this big 10pt that i bow hunted all yr:! (past on a iffy shot last week)1 big bounce an hes in a back yrd, run,s about 25yrds,stops turn's broadside,flips his tail an walks right up the drive way an across the road.witch is posted an very strickly enforced walked the rest of the mornin an seen 3tails at one place an 2 in another.
going out 2 the farm 2morrow,they will be driving all day won't be holding out for a buck anymore only have 2 more days then back 2 work 
good luck all
mrtwister_jbo

just got done makeing sausage,we got about 55 lbs of grind,made 30lbs of sausage an the rest is going 2 jerky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

ClickerCrazy said:


> I know the weather bad and yadda yadda, but the fact stands that the same fields that used to be FULL of deer in the evenings are virtually empty, and have been for months. .




EXACTLY what im seeing or should i say................... im NOT seeing around here !!!


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

Hardtop said:


> Perry Co. numbers are way down, we have been finding dead ones all fall. Trails are void of prints.....trail cams have very few hits, stand sitting bears few sightings. ODNR insists that EHD is not a significant event....... but then they also said it wouldn't migrate to domestic stock, until the local dairy farmers ( and Vets...) confirmed it in their herds.... so the bottom line is , they really don't know much about it or how many deer have been killed by it. They will balme the weather and many other things before they admit there is a serious problem with the virus and scare potential permit buyers away.....


i have been saying this "suituation" is alot worse then what theyve been telling the public !!! like you said just think of all of the money they wouldda lost on permit sales !!! next year people will know better !!


----------



## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

I have hunted im miami co and havent seen anything for a month now. I had buddies go to morgan and athen co's and the only deer they saw were dead ones in fields. They said that they were far from roads so they wernt deer strikes and there were no obvious gun shot or wounds from hunters and they looked like they had been laying for some time now. Im not sure what would cause this but it doesnt sound good.


----------



## Kyfisherman1 (Mar 22, 2007)

have you guys never heard of the disease that hit a lot of deer this year???? blue tongue and the deal with the mites, all across areas of ohio, wv, ky there have been a lot of deer die, in some local areas deer are just a thing of the past.. a lot of ppl here in ky said they couldn't stand to be outside all late summer cause of the stinch of the deer coming out of the hollers..... 

we found 4 dead the other day grouse hunting, all laying in a pond.. had been there a long time too. supposviley with the disease they go to water to die..


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

TomC said:


> I have hunted im miami co and havent seen anything for a month now. I had buddies go to morgan and athen co's and the only deer they saw were dead ones in fields. They said that they were far from roads so they wernt deer strikes and there were no obvious gun shot or wounds from hunters and they looked like they had been laying for some time now. Im not sure what would cause this but it doesnt sound good.


The disease you are referring to is Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease or EHD. There was a lot of talk about it on here earlier in the fall and in the public as well. The DNR has made some statements about it as well and confirms that it has killed fairly good numbers in some areas. I think at one time they did give some estimate numbers but I don't know know how they really know how extensive it was until the harvest is completed. EHD is not a totally new disease. It has hit the herd in other years but this year was significantly worse due to the extreme drought conditions in many areas. Here is a link to some information that the ODNR has on their web site. There is a list of the counties with confirmed case and unconfirmed. 

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/wild_resourcessubhomepage/dealing_with_wildlifeplaceholder/Diseases/EpizooticHemorrhagicDisease/tabid/15345/Default.aspx

I hunt Knox county and it was not listed on the site nor did I find or hear of any case here. So I feel that the lack of deer on Monday when I was out is nothing to do with this and is more to do with conditions and hunting pressure (or lack of).

I walked back through my place midday yesterday and bumped up a group of 3 and then saw another group of 3 so I know there are still deer there and yesterday would have been a better day on my place to prove that. I also found one that was gut shot and made it to one of my brier patches. I am assuming that it got shot on an adjoining property and they either lost the trail or didn't want to trespass. It was a nice size doe but it had been there for too long for me to keep it. I wish I had found it fresh as I would have made use of it if the shooter never showed up.


----------



## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Thera are still tons and tons and tons of them here in northern Summit/southern Cuyahoga counties. I see at least 15-20 every evening after work driving home, sometimes many more than that. They are everywhere.
Too bad they are in cities or the National Park and are off limits.

I found this info interesting on the ODNR page brk posted:



> EHD does not affect humans, nor impact the safety of consumed deer.





> The EHD virus does not appear to be transmissible to humans.
> However, never kill or eat a sick deer.


Kind of contradict themselves don't they?


----------



## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I am still seeing deer feeding in the fields in the evening while driving (I drive a lot for work) like gun season isn't even taking place in SW OH.
I also saw a few that were traveling fast and obviously being pressured - haven't seen bucks though, just skinheads. I saw 31 does on Tuesday from 3:45 until too dark to see while traveling from Cinci area up to Springfield - almost smacked a small doe on the run, but I saw her coming luckily. Not seeing a lot of trucks parked or hunter's orange either. I think a lot of guys in this area travel to south and SE OH for gun season - big mistake in my opinion as we have more than plenty in SW OH.


----------



## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

My group didn't see near as many deer as we usually do. We hunt the Carrol/Harrison County line.

Last year we didn't see squat during gun week, but on the bonus weekend and muzzleloader season there were deer everywhere. I hope this year is the same.


----------



## For my Son (Apr 23, 2007)

I've seen a fair amount of deer in Ashtabula county. Tuesday and Wednesday morning was perfect and the deer did move. The shooting was down monday but the next two days was about the same. 
Doe hanging in the garage and a big bodied 6pt in my buddies. Hopefully they are moving tomorrow.


----------



## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

I had intended on filling a doe tag this week down in Tusc. County but after hunting Mon, Thurs and Saturday (mornings only) I came back empty handed. Monday I saw nothing and heard maybe 10 shots all morning, Tuesday I jumped a nice buck (at least an 8 point) but I filled a buck tag in archery and also saw a very small doe that I let pass. Today there were three does feeding in a field on my way to my stand so I just waited till it got light enough to shoot before sneaking thru the field - they had meandered off somewhere and I don't know where they went. Very little shooting going on where I've been hunting - seeing about as many deer as I usually do.


----------



## DarbyMan (Dec 11, 2005)

Didn't see any deer in Perry County until Thurs. My boy shot a doe Thurs night, then another Fri morning. That has been it. Saw a few more does Fri afternoon but with 2 does in the freezer, we are in the market for a buck now. Haven't fired a shot this season, unreal!

Got out this morning and waited at property line that abutts Perry State Forest. There was a caravan of cars and trucks headed in there this morning. Figured the deer would be jumping everywhere. No Dice, only heard 4 shots in the first hour and half of legal time. Something is definitly going on because the deer are very few and far between. 

Very thankfull for the 2 we got so far. Tommorrow is butcher day, we'll shoot for a buck in two weeks


----------



## woodysoutdoors (May 18, 2007)

we have hunted perry, morgan and muskingum. we jumped one doe in morgan. That has been it. Was in muskingum today and saw nothing. we saw 3 other successful hunters but they were with parties of 10 or more hunters and driving. There were 3 of us. We did not drive but were hoping something would come our way. Nothing. It's getting frustrating. Hoping to go to carroll county on dec 15th.

I personally don't understand it but woody says this happens about every 5 - 7 years. Not only am I not seeing deer but there are not many squirels or birds either.

connie


----------



## mrtwister_jbo (Apr 7, 2004)

went out 2 the same place all week,sat mornin went to the head of a major hollow
knowing that there was hunters on the bottom farm making drives starting at 8am. heard 1st shot's at 8:15,seen 6 skinheads in 1st group at 8:30.
2nd group of 4,one of them a small spike at 8:50.
nothing till about 10 heard a couple of shot's an 3rd group of at least 10
with one small 4pt an a pretty nice 7 or 8 pt only seen him 4 a second,an could not get a clear shot.then as i walking back 2 my truck i hear shots far away and getting closer lol i mean like 15 or more shots,i see like 5 running right 4 me at about 200yrds they drop down this little hollow so i just lean againest this big old oak like maybe 3 steps from the trail, the 1st 3 never seen me, the 4rd one tryed 2 turn around in mid stide an the 5 one ran into it an the both go rolling down this hillside, one the funnest thing's i'v ever seen 
2day went out 4 a walk from 10 till about 1 ,only saw 3 tail's an got soaked by had a blast can't wait till the 15 /16!!!!!

mrtwister_jbo


----------



## Fishstix (Aug 16, 2005)

We own 40 acres in Holmes county and had 6 guys out on it Saturday. My dad and I were the only two to see deer. I saw 4 Does and a small eight point buck (which I just picked up from the butcher; the buck that is). Dad saw 2 of the Does that I saw and a 4 point that was already shot. He thought about shooting it, but feared that it was shot earlier in the week (gangreene) Come to find out from our neighbor that the buck was shot Friday evening.


----------



## bulafisherman (Apr 11, 2004)

I have seen as may deer here in ashtabula co as I have in muskingum co this year, we found a total of 8 dead deer will scouting aep the week before gun season, I am one to believe that blue tougue has had an impact on the deer population In some areas, I have never seen as few deer in muskingum co as I have this year. combine the blue tougue with the bad weather and Iam not suprised I never saw a deer the 1st day, have been holding out for a decent buck and have yet to see one, still have a lot of time left!


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

yeah things have been tough all over from what i hear ................i hunted on a farm that is usually loaded with deer and did not see a single deer and hunted another property that is just as good and only saw 3 small does on saturday !!! there just wasnt as many deer around in my opinion !!! i cant wait to see the totals for this year after gun season .............im predicting less then half as many deer were taken in gun season this year as there was last year !!! theres gonna be alot of unfilled tags this year and alot of disappointed hunters !!! im betting there will be some major changes made in the amount of deer that hunters are allowed to take next deer season !!!


----------



## Brian.Smith (May 18, 2006)

I hunt in NE Ohio and talked to a gamewarden and he said the deer kill was down 50% this year. Also dose anybody know when the two extra days for gun are.


----------



## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

the extra days are the 15th and 16th.

As for the overall harvest, I think it will be fine. It might be a little bit lower, but the archery and youth harvests were up from last year. Also we will have to wait until the extra weekend and muzzleloader are finished.

The numbers will be fine if we get a good snow for the extra weekend or muzzleloader season.


----------



## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

I talked to a montgomery co warden yesterday at work. He said that the totals were down but that he had been seeing a lot of deer moving. Oh yeah he was in dropping of a prisoner who got picked up for drinking while deer hunting. Guy also had some pills on him too.

The weather has been so screwy this year, i havent been out since wed. I was going to go out but 50's to low 30's and mass wind. Im tired of it and will probably pack it up for the year.


----------



## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

I also feel that the numbers are down, esp. on public lands, due to the highly efficient hunting techniques employed by certain large hunting groups. I always see the trailers fully loaded with all types of deer being pulled by a crowded small bus or extended van on 77 any night during gun week. I guess I'm jealous of the success of these groups but it's got to hurt the numbers in specific areas. I try to avoid those areas completely whenever I can.


----------



## 1badmthrfisher (Apr 4, 2005)

Well I think its slighlty unmerrited for several people blamming thier lack of success on the disease.. I spend countless hours scouting placing stands, moving cameras....all through through pre season... I bow hunt.. maybe its a matter of being un prepared..you cant walk into the woods for a couple days in gun season and expect deer to prance around your stand all day.


----------



## bulafisherman (Apr 11, 2004)

Iam one of the people that mentioned the disease blue tougue,Iam by no means blaming that for my lack of success,I have spent many hours out since the start of archery season and passed on both bucks and does waiting for a buck that I can personally call a trophy,and in ashtabula co I have not noticed any decline in the amount of deer, but when you find 8 dead deer in one tract of land that we normally hunt in muskingum co(And Iam sure there are more that we never saw) you cant tell me it doesnt have an impact when it comes to deer sightings,I am sticking to hunting the rest of the season here at home,Iam sure I will be able to harvest a doe or two for the freezer before the season ends.I dont see it as all doom and gloom we are barely half way through the season


----------



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

This is not a situation of "blaming the disease" for not seeing deer, like I said earlier, not only are we not seeing deer, the deep cut side trails on our hills are void of prints. These trials have been cut over decades by generations of deer, and when you don't find prints in mild damp, weather, we have a problem huston. I am getting tired of this crap about EHD being a common thing too, we have hunted the same hills for 25 yrs in Perry Co, spend a lot of time in the woods, and have never seen ( smelled) dead deer like this. You could actully smell them as you drove down the roads in September. DOW had a town meeting near us in October, and we asked them to consider putting the skids on the exrta 3 doe permits until a comprehensive kill count could be made. " Aww......we don't think there has been very many killed by the EHD..... and don't think there is any need to adjust the permits..." How irresponsible for a state agency to not error on the side of conservation when they had no idea of how extensive the kill has been. And the line about a severe drought is bogus too.....our farm has two decent creeks that held water all summer, and two ponds with several acres of water each.......dead deer everywhere, don't buy the cookie cutter explaination from our DOW, they are outdoor cops, not Biologists and policies prove thier main interest is selling permits and making busts.


----------



## stumpsitter (Jul 3, 2004)

Dang, that's rough. Deer and turkey have gone from near extiction in Ohio to abundunt numbers now. I have taken a deer every year that I wanted one for the last 25 years...and many turkeys as well.

This is all due to efforts by the DOW biologist.

It's been a while since I read about it. but I seem to remember that the drought (lack of water) itself doesn't kill the deer, but it causes the animals to have fewer places to drink and concentrates them in a relativly smaller area making it easier for viruses to spread.


----------



## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

Man after reading all the stuff about the EHD on here and on the net, im glad i have private property in Miami co to hunt. Hopefully that stuff wont spread.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I heard the numbers last evening on the gun season. The state was down 9% in total which in my opinion is pretty good considering a few factors. For one I think a few more were taken during early archery season as opposed to gun season although I don't have the numbers to see how many yet. Also as has been discussed the weather was tough on opening day and also on closing day. Factor in some impact by the EHD in the southeast as well. With all of that and considering that some may have held off on harvesting until the 15/16th those numbers are pretty good in my opinion. Tuscarawas county led all counties with 4,266 which was actually down from 4,924 last year. Here is a link to the ODNR site with the breakdown.

ODNR News


----------



## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

I don't think you can blame EHD since the overall harvest is UP from last year.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Bassnpro1 said:


> I don't think you can blame EHD since the overall harvest is UP from last year.


I have not seen the overall numbers for the season thus far. I suspected that it may be up once it is all said and done.


----------



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Look at the numbers for the gun week in the southern Counties........most are down considerably.........Hummmmm wonder why, when the northern counties are actually up in some cases


----------



## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

Hardtop said:


> Look at the numbers for the gun week in the southern Counties........most are down considerably.........Hummmmm wonder why, when the northern counties are actually up in some cases


I would attribute this mainly to the weather. ALOT of people take the first two days off and hunt in SE ohio. With the bad weather many went home and shot their deer in the counties they reside in. With the archery and youth seasons numbers added in there have been more deer killed so far this year than ever before.

I know EHD killed off some deer, but I don't think that is was that bad. Maybe in small localized areas, but the health of the overall herd in ohio is the same. EHD hits the ohio deer herd every year, just this year it appeared in more areas. This has been going on since the '70s only difference is now with the internet every one hears about.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Kevin,

Where are you getting the numbers for the year-to-date totals? I have not been able to locate those and was curious to see them.


----------



## mrtwister_jbo (Apr 7, 2004)

167,965 harvested so far this yr.
166,534 harvested at this time last yr.
mrtwister


----------



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Wrong.........it may have hit some areas since 70's........do you have stats on that.....? I know for a fact that there has never (NEVER) been an EHD deer kill in Perry where we hunt. We own 140 acres and spend lots of time there each fall. The EHD kill was at least significant, and probably severe in our area. I just think the DOW could have taken a more professionaly approach to it rather than to pretend it would just go away and not be noticed. They don't even offer reliable information about the potenital of the virus wintering over and infesting again next summer.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

mrtwister_jbo said:


> 167,965 harvested so far this yr.
> 166,534 harvested at this time last yr.
> mrtwister


Ahh! I see that now. This is the rest of what I was wondering about.



> Hunters took a total of 237,316 deer during all of last years hunting seasons.


I can see we are not over last year's numbers yet but we seem to be right on pace with it.

I see where Perry county was down 16% from last year for gun season but without knowing the harvest for archery, youth, muzzleloader, and the rest of the gun season it is difficult to compare completely. You may be right that it affected Perry county but I don't know how the ODNR was expected to regulate the harvest based on speculation of the extent of the problem.If they see a low number of deer in subsequent years they may opt to change the limits. Perhaps your property and surrounding area took the bulk of the damage within the county.


----------



## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

Hardtop said:


> And the line about a severe drought is bogus too.....our farm has two decent creeks that held water all summer, and two ponds with several acres of water each.......dead deer everywhere.


That is the reason you had dead deer on your property. The drought intensifies the disease because deer concentrate around areas of water thus making it easy for the disease to spread around. EHD has fairly localized and severe deer kills every 5-7 years or so. This one was just showing up in more areas than usual. I go to school with alot of the people studying wildlife management and as you can imagine it was a good topic for papers to be written about this year.


----------



## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I hate to waste my tyime in a silly discussion like this, but....



> I know for a fact that there has never (NEVER) been an EHD deer kill in Perry where we hunt.


Please provide proof, as I really don't believe that to be true. EHD kills deer every year, some just worse than others. It has always been a bigger killer than CWD, it just didn't get the attention.


----------



## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

Here is an article with Mike Tonkovich, the state's deer biologist. He is estimating that up to 500 deer died from the disease. Only 49 deer were reported in Perry County.

http://www.ohiooutdoornews.com/articles/2007/10/18/news/news3.txt


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

im pulling these numbers from the times reporter newspaper in Dover and the deer kill in Tusc County 4226 in gun season was down 698 deer for the Gun Season !! when you consider last years kill was 4924 deer last year that is down 14 % from last year !!! The southern portion of the state was hardest hit with the disease that is why the numbers are down in those areas worse then others. the areas that had better seasons then last year are up enough to make the overall statewide kill total for gun season not look quite so bad in my opinion !!! theres no question in my mind that some areas were HIT HARD by the disease (just look at the numbers)...........we always have less then perfect weather conditions (THIS IS OHIO) and the weather doesnt affect the over all kill numbers this much !!! !!! kill total statewide for gun season was 103,195 down from last years total of 111,672 ..............that is down 8,477 deer from last years gun season !!


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

tcba1987 said:


> im pulling these numbers from the times reporter newspaper in Dover and the deer kill in Tusc County 4226 in gun season was down 698 deer for the Gun Season !! when you consider last years kill was 4924 deer last year that is down 14 % from last year !!! The southern portion of the state was hardest hit with the disease that is why the numbers are down in those areas worse then others. the areas that had better seasons then last year are up enough to make the overall statewide kill total for gun season not look quite so bad in my opinion !!! theres no question in my mind that some areas were HIT HARD by the disease (just look at the numbers)...........we always have less then perfect weather conditions (THIS IS OHIO) and the weather doesnt affect the over all kill numbers this much !!! !!! kill total statewide for gun season was 103,195 down from last years total of 111,672 ..............that is down 8,477 deer from last years gun season !!


There is an important piece you are not considering when you state that the gun kill was down this year. This is taken from the same article about the deer harvest.



> A total of 167,965 deer have been harvested so far this season when combining the adult and youth gun seasons, early muzzleloader season and the first six weeks of the archery season. That compares to a total of 166,534 killed last year during the same time period.


The year-to date total is up over 1,400 from last year's number. Apparently based on that I would say there was a good archery kill thus far. This says nothing for the county specific totals yet but Tuscarawas county may have an unusually large archery kill thus far. And keep in mind that a higher archery harvest will also cut down on deer sightings in the field.

I do think that the EHD is getting a lot more blame in this than it deserves. Okay, so maybe the ODNR understated the numbers somewhat on the kill. They say 500 statewide. Even if it is triple that you are still looking at a small number in the total deer harvest, roughly 1% of the total. I don't think anyone here is arguing the fact that certain places may have seen the disease take large numbers but what are we talking about? 15 or so in one area? Maybe a dozen in another? And those are probably the extreme cases. In the end it probably still will add up to a number which is a small percentage of the deer herd.

I know it is tough to accept when we don't get the deer we expected. Believe me I know because I still have a couple of tags to fill myself.


----------



## eyeballs (May 1, 2005)

I checked a deer in at the"pit stop" in washington co.on tuesday of season they told me on that Tuesday the STATE was down 51% .On monday ,the opener,she said they normally check in between 400-450 deer .....on monday alone.... they taged 83......with Monday always being the biggest kill day ,I really find it hard to believe the numbers are not down alot more than they claim.....just my thoughts


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I would say there must have been a steady increase throughout the week to make up for the opening day. I am guessing the same thing was true in our county as I heard an awful lot of people striking out on Monday.


----------



## rattletraprex (Sep 1, 2005)

They're just hiding better! I too have seen less deer when hunting this year but believe me they are still there! They were every where tonight on the way home,saw up to over 60 deer in a few miles so know they are still out there. Maybe now with the snow I can figure them out a little better,narrows their food choices some what. Think the harvest will be about what was planned.I hunt Tuscarawas Co. also ,just think the weather played a big factor for gun season. I hunted in the rain but know many who didn't,it makes it tougher but the deer are still in the woods just have to work a little harder.


----------



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

"BKR"......... if you buy into the DOW estimates of 500 deer you need to take another pill man, as I stated earlier, in our TWP in Perry co, you could smell then driving down the highway, and the bug hit something like 30 counties. You also suggest that 12-15 "out of one area" is no big deal.... the area we hunt ( 200-300 acres) probably probably only holds 20-30 deer, your estimate would cut that in half, and if we would have followed ODW permit options, our local herd might have been eliminated by now. They ODW just didn't seem to want any publicity IMO........


----------



## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Some of you just refuse to accept that there are no conspiracy theories. What exactly did everyone expect the DOW to do about EHD? They did all they could, nothing. It&#8217;s Mother Nature and it can&#8217;t be stopped. Not to mention, this isn&#8217;t the first round of EHD to go around and they know more about it than the &#8220;armchair biologists&#8221;. It seems many of you can&#8217;t put the numbers together very well either. Almost all of the county kills are down some from last year. EHD did not hit every county, or even half of them. So, what accounted for the low numbers in all of the counties that weren&#8217;t affected? Surely not the weather.  What some of you are implying is that EHD caused a lower kill in the counties it affected, but it was the weather in all of the others. That defies any sort of logic, and it&#8217;s just people looking for someone to blame. For what, I don&#8217;t know. But, here&#8217;s a thought for all of you who think the deer are on the brink of extinction, quit hunting! It seems a bit hypocritical to complain that there aren&#8217;t enough deer, but then go and try to kill one.


> I know for a fact that there has never (NEVER) been an EHD deer kill in Perry where we hunt





> Please provide proof


Still waiting.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I honestly cannot see where the ODNR would have anything to gain by hiding the extent of the kill. Do you really believe that their goal is to exterminate the herd completely? You make it sound as if they would have us kill them all? Then what will they do next year when all of those deer are gone.

Like I said you can believe the number of 500 or you can come up with your own number (however that may be) but the fact is the gun hunters still killed nearly 1,900 which still ranks them somewhere around the 12th largest harvest in the state. That sounds to me like the county had plenty of deer. Granted maybe they were not in your neck of the woods for some reason and perhaps some of your reason was EHD but based on those numbers it just doesn't sound to me like the DOW had anything to worry about with the county yield. The other part that we do not have access to yet either is the YTD archery numbers and the youth hunt numbers. For all we know they can make up another large portion of the decrease from last year. Obviously it will not be until February until we know the total harvest and not until the following year that we know what that harvest did to the numbers but I will refrain from taking another pill until I see the numbers showing the herd dwindling.


----------



## stumpsitter (Jul 3, 2004)

If the DOW allows us to hunt deer to extinction this year just to sell more permits, how will they generate revenue in the future?

If it was truly all about money and selling tags, the smart thing to do would to be let them multiply...kill LESS does.

Gotta love conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

I keep hearing that there is/was nothing the DOW could do....? Excuse me....did any of you fish for perch on the big pond this summer, or read the post on top of this site all summer.......? They cut the perch limit "after" the wildlife council had approved catch limits for the season, and didn't even spend the money to reprint the laws.We are told it is because of harvest/population conditions, so you see they "can" make adjustments by administrative rule if "they" think it's nessecary. In our southern counties, they could have done the very same thing with the "exrta" 3 doe permits,when they didn't know how extensive the EHD kill was.....does anyone really need to kill 6 deer in a zone with a virus problem...? But then cutting the permits would have generated more publicity, and possibly kept some guys from buying any permits. We took it on ourselves and are going a season without venison for the first time in 25 yrs just to make sure there at least a few that make it thru the winter. I know several of the neighbors are doing the same thing, when you find more dead ones than you see on the hoof, it gets your attention regardless of what big brother suggests.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Your story does not sound like one from a hunter in a county that killed more than 2,000 deer already this year (I am suspecting that the archery season yielded at least a couple hundred) but apparently your area is an exception. There is no way that the hunters in your county could have harvested over 1,800 if they were seeing what you are describing. Even if your area was decimated I believe you will see the numbers return quickly since there seem to be plenty in the surrounding areas.

It would indeed take a significant drop in harvest numbers for your county for them to react with a reduction in the limit. They cannot manage the herd on a property by property basis and a county that is around 12th overall will continue to fall in the high density category.

If what you are experiencing on your property is widespread it will show next year in the numbers and you will be able to tell everyone, "I told you so."


----------



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Zone management IS not only possible, but has been traditionaly a part of the management plan. All of the counties in the SE zone have had EHD losses, how hard would it have been to just axe the extra 3 tags there......just to be safe. Your suggestion of waiting till next season and saying "I told you so" is not real sound wildlife management, about what one would expect from ODW


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

stumpsitter said:


> If the DOW allows us to hunt deer to extinction this year just to sell more permits, how will they generate revenue in the future?
> 
> If it was truly all about money and selling tags, the smart thing to do would to be let them multiply...kill LESS does.
> 
> Gotta love conspiracy theories.


i was gonna shut up and NOT post anymore but i HAD to...................the game laws and the amount of deer tags issued for this season were voted on EARLY in the year BEFORE the drought conditions and BEFORE the disease hit so hard............DUH !!! they werent gonna admit that they set the limits too high after the fact............ that would have scared off potential hunters which means $$$$$ for tags that would have been lost !!! watch and see if next year the limits arent lower !!! Magis do you even hunt ??? just curious !!!


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

Hardtop said:


> I keep hearing that there is/was nothing the DOW could do....? Excuse me....did any of you fish for perch on the big pond this summer, or read the post on top of this site all summer.......? They cut the perch limit "after" the wildlife council had approved catch limits for the season, and didn't even spend the money to reprint the laws.We are told it is because of harvest/population conditions, so you see they "can" make adjustments by administrative rule if "they" think it's nessecary. In our southern counties, they could have done the very same thing with the "exrta" 3 doe permits,when they didn't know how extensive the EHD kill was.....does anyone really need to kill 6 deer in a zone with a virus problem...? But then cutting the permits would have generated more publicity, and possibly kept some guys from buying any permits. We took it on ourselves and are going a season without venison for the first time in 25 yrs just to make sure there at least a few that make it thru the winter. I know several of the neighbors are doing the same thing, when you find more dead ones than you see on the hoof, it gets your attention regardless of what big brother suggests.


Thank You Hardtop for supporting "our conspiracy theory"   !!! your post hits the nail right on the head in my opinion !!! as far as some of the comments being made that MOST of us whiners are probably guys who go in the woods with NO pre-season scouting or preparation (that may be the case with SOME people) i have been bow hunting since the season opened and i have thoroughly scouted 4 farms that i have permission to hunt on and land owned PRIVATELY by my Dads Company that he retired from and i know these properties VERY WELL and when i have seen it go from SEEING 20-25 deer a day last year to not seeing 5 deer ALL WEEK on ALL of these properties i am smart enough to figure out that something just isnt right !!! if i had never heard of the deer disease ............i would still be saying that SOMETHING is wrong and that i just aint seeing deer ........i for one didnt jump on the disease bandwagon..................i just know what ive seen in years past and what i HAVENT seen this year on ANY of the properties that i hunt in Tusc county.................DEER !!! :! I have saw a few deer feeding in the fields but nowhere near the number of deer this yearthat i have in years past !!! the numbers in Tusc county as far as Deer taken ""IN"" our county are very misleading i know 2 people who work Tusc county checking stations and ""MANY"" of the deer checked in at their checking stations are taken from other counties and TAGGED in here because of the convenience of their locations for people returning from the PUBLIC grounds at the MWCD lakes !!! so the numbers may not be what they seem for Tusc County !!! just speaking my opinion ............thats the wonderful thing about these forums they are FOR PEOPLE TO SPEAK THEIR OPINIONS !!!


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Okay where do I start?

First of all the deer do not need to be checked in the county they are shot. The checking station asks that question and fills it in on the permanent tag process.

A county which checks in over 4,200 deer (Tuscarawas) in one week of gun season and ranks at the very top definitely does not have a dead herd. Granted that number is down somewhat from last year's number but let's wait until we see the numbers for all season before we declare that the sky has fallen.



> Magis do you even hunt ??? just curious !!!


I am sure that folks who know anything about Mike would find that rather humorous. I don't know him personally but can assure you that he hunts as much as he needs to.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Believe it or not I am sitting here defending the state's numbers and reputation despite the fact that I hunted all day on Monday and half a day on Saturday only seeing a total of 10 deer myself. I believe the herd has been thinned a bit in my area but by hunters. There are still enough deer to go around. Granted I may not get my 3 deer that I intended but I will be okay with that. I will accept it as my own failure.

I just think that everyone needs to wait on this until we can look at the whole picture. Some of the questions may be answered as to the shortages in certain areas.


----------



## stumpsitter (Jul 3, 2004)

tcba1987 said:


> i was gonna shut up and NOT post anymore but i HAD to...................the game laws and the amount of deer tags issued for this season were voted on EARLY in the year BEFORE the drought conditions and BEFORE the disease hit so hard............DUH !!! they werent gonna admit that they set the limits too high after the fact............ that would have scared off potential hunters which means $$$$$ for tags that would have been lost !!! watch and see if next year the limits arent lower !!! Magis do you even hunt ??? just curious !!!


I seriously doubt the money was the deciding factor, and I seriously doubt that over-hunting hurt the deer herd significantly-no matter how low many deer died of disease.

You have to take a tremendous amount of does from the herd to reduce the long term population. If there were 2000+ deer taken in Perry County, then I would have to believe that the numbers are fine. Maybe they will reduce the limit next year. So what? It has happened before.

By the way, I hunted Perry two days during gun week. I would have sworn that there were no deer there even though I usually see many on my sister's small property. There were no tracks, no sign.

The day after my last hunt, my sister called to say that there were many deer up in her yard. Another guy hunted back there Friday and saw 13...and my Dad missed a chance at a buck that saw him first.

She said that they nor anyone they know of have been seeing or smelling dead deer in that area.


----------



## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

I know this wasnt a serious question,but Magis probably forgot more about deer hunting than a lot of people know. 

I am sure that EHD has had a dramatic affect on certain properties.
If your land holds 15-20 deer at any given time its very possible that certain properties were hit hard,but the numbers certainly dont reflect a county wide problem.
Anyway, Whitetails are very prolific breeders and populations rebound quickly.
It might not be time to panic yet.

Its not all about the dollars$$$$.
The ODNR is in this for the long term.
Not turn a quick buck on one season.
They are in this for the long haul and are certainly not that shortsighted.
It is in their best interest to have a healthy,well balanced deer herd.

TCBA....As far as Tusc. County....it is full of Deer.
It ranks in the top 5 for harvest numbers every year and has for years.
One explanation for the property you hunt and the absence of deer can sometimes simply be the food sources.
If the neighboring woods has an excellent mast crop, good browse or farm crops and your property doesnt..guess where the deer will be.
Another thing to consider is some of the awesome foodplots that are the latest rage.
With a large foodplot your neighbor can pull a lot of deer off of your place.
Another thing...An estimated 400,000 hunters participate in Deer hunting with kill figures around 150,000.
Factor in that a lot of hunters tag more than one deer.
Know what that means?
More hunters DONT kill a deer than those that do! 
Just my $.02


----------



## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

Good point about the foodplots, Lewis. I know that to be the case where I hunt. The guy across the road has been getting more involved with those and now gets his deer with a crossbow every year well before the gun season opens. He doesn't have to worry about the weather or anything else come gun season. 
Since most properties used primarily for deer hunting are posted and most neighboring hunters to such places honor the posted signs, you never really know what is going on over there and indeed, most of the deer in the area are(can be) hanging there due to the great grub. The better pros on the Outdoor Channel know about this tactic and even boast about bringing big bucks(especially) off neighboring farms to their stands/cameras.


----------



## stumpsitter (Jul 3, 2004)

Standing corn nearby will attract and hide a lot of deer.


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

the one farm i hunt on is loaded with corn fields......... so food supply isnt a problem on it, the farmer did however leave half of his corn up until after gun season because the ground was too soft from the rains to get it picked !!! the farmer tells me that before gun season that he was seeing large herds of deer in his fields (12-15 does in some of the herds) but he also told me that as far as he knows only 2 deer were taken during the gun season !!! he said that his corn was destroyed several rows into the fields this year by deer and was hoping for a lot more deer to be taken from his farm. who knows maybe the 2nd gun season and muzzleloader season will be better for us !!!  

as far as the other properties i hunted on ............maybe they will make a miraculous recovery in the 2nd gun season and Muzzleloader too !!



i think the extra doe tags in bow season were a bit of a overkill in my opinion but i guess we'll have to see how things turn out after the season is over for the year including the bow totals !! even if they are UP .....one thing that many of you arent considering IS the extra does that could be taken with a bow this year so even if the overall numbers are up for the year so far that really doesnt mean too much ......it SHOULD BE UP because of the extra does taken with a bow !!!


----------



## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

> before gun season that he was seeing large herds of deer in his fields (12-15 does in some of the herds





> his corn was destroyed several rows into the fields this year by deer


And your still sticking by your original story that there aren't many deer around? Ever wonder why HE was seeing them and not you? Maybe that's your problem. EHD went away at the first hard frost, LONG before gun season. So much for that theory.


----------



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

M.Magis said:


> And your still sticking by your original story that there aren't many deer around? Ever wonder why HE was seeing them and not you? Maybe that's your problem.QUOTE]
> 
> theres is plenty of deer on this farm .................but i dont see it being anything i did wrong..............when you consider that he gave out about 25 permits to hunt on his ground and there were ""2"" deer taken during the gun season !!! the other places i hunt were all way down as far as deer actually being saw during gun season !! hopefully Magis you are right and it was the weather and all of us guys up here in southern Tusc county will get our deers during the 2nd gun season !!!


----------

