# man charged for buying gun for felon



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

http://nbc4i.com/2018/02/12/man-cha...pect-accused-of-killing-westerville-officers/


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

its just a shame that some people will assist known felon get guns. there is a reason they cant get them by there self.
sherman


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## Minnowhead (Jan 12, 2011)

Good lock him up too


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## Mrwiggler (Jan 26, 2017)

Minnowhead said:


> Good lock him up too


FOR A LONG-LONG TIME..!


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## brettmansdorf (Apr 5, 2013)

*Devil's advocate* - if your son was fresh out of the pen and both he and you were worried about his safety - you might consider such a request differently. This storyline is ALMOST always the case when these offenders are tried - and those comment weigh with both judge and jury. Truth is - where they live - tends to be on the 'rougher' side - and thereby inherently more dangerous - necessitating the need for some type of protection. 

The real question I have is this... Was the friend too lazy or was the criminal too cheap - why didn't they just buy a gun off the street (bit of latitude - making a point here)? Yes - its illegal - but happens ALL THE TIME. Yes - it would have insulated the dummy from Warrensville - therefore I think we are onto something...

Perhaps there is an element of intelligence we need to examine - perhaps we need to administer a basic skills / knowledge test for gun ownership - like the SAT or ACT and if you score poorly on it - you are NOT allowed to own or purchase a gun... One of the primary skill sets it should test is laziness... If they are too lazy - they will not be good gun owners - period. "I meant to throw the safety on it before I gave it to my three year old to play with" could be averted. 

*My Advocate: * I AGREE WITH YOU - in fact I'm a fanatic - I want a video camera on every telephone pole, DNA of everyone, and all weapons considered deadly (on their own) tracked. I don't break the law - period, so I've nothing to hide. If I do - I will face the consequences. 

I've NO problem the police knowing I own a pistol and a rifle - and further them knowing where it is (RFID/magneto tracking - embedded in gun - passive unit that gives approximate location to with in 10-15 feet). YES they will figure a way to spoof it - but in todays day and age - you have a computer immediately kicks out a spoof and a cop investigates it - and for the same reason you will not find anyone willing to duplicate a serial number on a gun today (carries a sentence rarely bargained down - and worse than murder) - that angle will be short lived. 

If your a cop - you pull vehicle over - you IMMEDIATELY know there is a weapon. If the driver is a known felon - you call in the calvary (literally an armed and armored vehicle)...

You go on a domestic as a cop - and the subject is a known felon - and your weapons radar pops - you know there is a weapon and you call for backup or swat or whatever. Overkill - perhaps - but certainly safer.

Post 9/11 there is a pretty good chance if I misuse a word - much like "my idea would be the bomb" - this post will be reviewed. The process is to take away a bit of my privacy so as to protect the whole (and by the whole I mean fund the military complex and keep Wall Street SAFE)... This/these actions protect the individuals in our neighborhoods - not those on wall street - and would make a difference EVERY day.

Put trackers on guns... Years ago I was headed in the evening to downtown Cleveland and was out of gas - way out of gas - so off at E55/I490 - quick $5 gas (that was like 4 gallons back then) and back up to Carnegie or one of those. In those days. - there wasn't any lines or arrows (nor much pavement left) on E.55th - so my left turn was a bit jerky (though I was headed for the correct lane - ended up being a couple further over and I had to avoid the potholes as big a VW too)... 

Pulled over and the two approached the car (late spring so drivers window was down) - I had my lic/reg/and collection of FOP cards - and both my hands out the drivers door - as my buddy (cop) told me they appreciate. Officer approaching my side was laughing at my actions - and was asking if I was playing poker (referring to the FOP cards), then said he just wanted to check and make sure everything was ok after that adventurous turn... GUN!!!! yelled his youthful partner on the other side of the car. My guy (my side) was cool - didn't falter and kept talking cooly - said to hold still, don't move and to look directly at him - as you can imagine - I did - and he got me out of the car and cuffed me - partner got the rear car door open (was locked) and all was well, cuffs came off as fast as they went on - and to cheerful chuckles by the officers as it was just an empty clip from a .22 rifle on the floor in the back peaking out from under the seat.... I would have much preferred they knew I was a gun owner as they approached the car - as what transpired was good - but only because my guy (on my side) was cool as a cucumber. SO MUCH could have gone wrong. In the end - wasn't even my clip - was Buddys from a week ago (from his 22) and was damaged so he didn't think about it.

And if you think the gun thieves will be roaming around the neighborhoods with scanning devices for such - the tagging makes the theft of a 'marked' gun useless.

What might it cost - estimates are 8 billion - you can argue whatever you might want - but 8 billion doesn't even scratch the budget - and it would surely end or drastically reduce many things... Why do I think like this... I Am willing to surrender some of my privacy so my daughter can grow up on a world with less violence - and thereby this old man sleeps a bit better...

In the end - SENSELESS - the killings. Sooner or later we as a society will NEED to figure out a way to lessen this - period.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Wow, some are so willing to give up everything. I'd rather enforce the laws we have than give up my rights.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

Sorry Brettmansdorf, but I remain unconvinced that giving up my rights or privacy would make anyone-- especially myself or my family safer.


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## leeabu (Apr 10, 2004)

I believe the guy who purchased the weapon should receive the same punishment as the shooter given the facts stated in the original post.


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

leeabu said:


> I believe the guy who purchased the weapon should receive the same punishment as the shooter given the facts stated in the original post.


That would stop the bs !!!!


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

I'm sure that criminals would all abide by new gun "tracking" technology. Keep dreaming.


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

brettmansdorf said:


> *Devil's advocate* - if your son was fresh out of the pen and both he and you were worried about his safety - you might consider such a request differently. This storyline is ALMOST always the case when these offenders are tried - and those comment weigh with both judge and jury. Truth is - where they live - tends to be on the 'rougher' side - and thereby inherently more dangerous - necessitating the need for some type of protection.
> 
> The real question I have is this... Was the friend too lazy or was the criminal too cheap - why didn't they just buy a gun off the street (bit of latitude - making a point here)? Yes - its illegal - but happens ALL THE TIME. Yes - it would have insulated the dummy from Warrensville - therefore I think we are onto something...
> 
> ...


WHO IS THIS


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

outlaw guns then only the outlaws have guns. most shootings are done by people that's not legal to have guns. if I'm a crook and I'm looking to break into a house I'm not going to pick a house that has campers or boats because these people are more apt to legally have guns and know how to use them. now I'm still not sure why assault rifles are legal but once the anti gun people get a foot hold can our shot guns and 22's wont be far behind. just my opinion.

it is tragic that so many suffer gun shot wounds in this country. i had one of the sweetest little 14 yr old nieces shot and killed some yrs ago. she was shot by my brothers gun. but it wasn't the gun it was the punk that took it pointed it at her and called her name and pulled the trigger when she looked at him. I'm not going into the whole story but my brother was at work when it happened. they were living in Chicago when it happened. they ruled it an accident. the boy that shot was shot and killed some time later with no suspects.
sherman


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## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

brettmansdorf said:


> *Devil's advocate* - if your son was fresh out of the pen and both he and you were worried about his safety - you might consider such a request differently. This storyline is ALMOST always the case when these offenders are tried - and those comment weigh with both judge and jury. Truth is - where they live - tends to be on the 'rougher' side - and thereby inherently more dangerous - necessitating the need for some type of protection.
> 
> The real question I have is this... Was the friend too lazy or was the criminal too cheap - why didn't they just buy a gun off the street (bit of latitude - making a point here)? Yes - its illegal - but happens ALL THE TIME. Yes - it would have insulated the dummy from Warrensville - therefore I think we are onto something...
> 
> ...


Um, NO! That's exactly what the anti-gun zealots want.

Commenting on the OP, they need to find a way to charge him with the murder of both cops as well. Just charging him with providing a firearm to a felon is not enough.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

MuskyFan said:


> Um, NO! That's exactly what the anti-gun zealots want.
> 
> Commenting on the OP, they need to find a way to charge him with the murder of both cops as well. Just charging him with providing a firearm to a felon is not enough.


they may end up charging him with both. its going to depend on all the facts.
sherman


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

sherman51 said:


> they may end up charging him with both. its going to depend on all the facts.
> sherman


They will not be charging him with murder...probably just hit him with supplying a gun to a known felon, for which he will probably do a year (maybe) for...but he can do up to 10 years for it...I mean let's be honest...unless some facts come out, I doubt the guy knew he was gonna use it to kill two police officers...but maybe I'm wrong...if that's the case then he should be charged with murder also...if he didn't get it from him he would've just found one on the street...still a horrible situation nonetheless.


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## M R DUCKS (Feb 20, 2010)

What IS an assault rifle ?


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

I worked with a black man who was an ex convict. He was as nice a person you would ever want to know. He got in trouble when he was a teenager . As an adult he carried a gun. One day I asked him if he was worried about going back to jail for carrying a gun. He said he had to carry it for protection. He said where he went the people were animals. I guess he was talking about his neighborhood and bars he went to. Luckily he never got caught and he made it to retirement. He was a good guy and a good worker.


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## laynhardwood (Dec 27, 2009)

M R DUCKS said:


> What IS an assault rifle ?


A term the media and uneducated people have dreamt up to scare people. How many people think AR stands for assault rifle? Educated people realize it stands for Armalite Rifle. The media has twisted so many things around to gain the perception they want.


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## brettmansdorf (Apr 5, 2013)

FACT: Federal Straw Purchaser laws are RARELY enforced – as they have less than a 50% conviction rate with <10% sentencing rate. There is LOTS of precedence – this is a fun one….

http://www.guns.com/2017/04/17/straw-purchaser-with-4-felony-gun-charges-will-not-get-jail-time/

YES the weapon was used to kill a peace officer – but the felony is the lying on the form, NOT the buying of the weapon. The 2nd amendment army has already provided a bullet-proof defense if he was charged with the murder – ironic as it may be.

Even if you get past the obvious issue(s) and go for the MAX of 10 yrs – you still need to get 12 votes in the box – and then you need a judge willing to impose the maximum. It won’t happen, and the prosecutor KNOWS IT already – that IS our system – for better or worse...

Just IMDAO – in my dumbazz opinion. None of your comments suggest I’m wrong – only that you don’t like or don’t think it should be… Considering a group of older – conservatives – I was hoping for a discussion looking for a solution to an ON GOING PROBLEM – not an argument about 2nd amendment rights… 

FACT: Currently - there is a HUGE backlog on the Ohio death row. We have NOT touched anyone from the current century – they are all livin’ it up on death row at the tax-payers expense). Since the death penalty came back (1976’ we’ve disposed of (I’m a fan of the punishment – just not the system) roughly 1500 nationwide – SOUNDS GREAT – until you learn there is 3000 currently waiting on death row – more than double what we have accomplished in the last 40 yrs – so by those figures we won’t get to ‘dispose’ of any in the near future - as it will take another 80 years to clear the backlog…. We need something new.

Does Mr. Westerville deserve to DIE – Pretty sure as there isn’t too many far-fetched ideas that would waiver my opinion… Will he – probably not – even if convicted tomorrow – his actual execution would be in the 2050’s or 60’s – and I won’t likely be here.

Gun ownership…

I want to track the gun – not the owner. I think it would be a STELLAR idea if a cop was able to scan an area and know a weapon was present (and better – what type and so on)… I doubt I’d get too many arguments on that one if we are talking safety. 

So in the end – its safety vs privacy – at some point we will get adults to look at it and say (just like they did for large bore shells >22mm, and for guns on planes - air travel) – it makes sense and works…

As for criminals bypassing – they won’t duplicate serial numbers today (long standing fed law – with teeth) – keep the same law (and it is enforceable). Even in criminal jargon – going away FOREVER gets attention (that’s no parole). You can argue it doesn’t work – but stats show a landslide win that is indisputable.

The age-old idea with “enforce the laws we have” – does nothing to stop the violence. Wouldn’t have made any difference here or Las Vegas (for example).

To suggest the same laws and efforts will get better results next time – that is ignorance. 

LOOK – bit of education - most laws that ‘fall off the books’ (get shelved and rarely enforced) are because prosecutors end up spending their case trying to defend the law not tie the defendant to the violation. If your “law” is a problem child (and there are MANY) – then the inclusion of it can be detrimental to a prosecutor’s case – so it is avoided like the plague. 

The straw purchaser is a good example. Is purchasing the weapon illegal – NO. Is gifting the weapon illegal – NO. Is taking money for expenses (based on federal guidelines – such as mileage at $.50+) illegal – NOPE. BUT if you buy a gun for a buddy – illegal. Jury starts to ask questions and then it all goes to the birds…. Giving a gun to a felon is even worse in the states – as any personal relationship with the recipient reduces most of the charges (intent). In the end as a prosecutor – you have to prove the intent was to arm a dangerous criminal – not help out a friend or family member. I’m not making excuse – this IS how the system works.

I personally just want to see the little one safe(r) - even if it means I loose certain rights (and still not clear what rights I’d be giving up) and she never has those rights (rights she never knew). Quite frankly I've NEVER bought a gun anonymously - so what right am I giving up...

So – back to looking for a solution to the problem…

Had we known there was a gun present at the property in Westerville before they went - then maybe - JUST MAYBE. For me - that ‘just maybe’ translates to a chance a father spends the next day with his kids – not his coffin – and for me - that IS enough to give up the right to anonymous gun ownership/possession and sales. 

I can't imagine a world where greed doesn't get the better of the system (I admit this) - so I'm looking for ways to insulate the system from that greed – tracked guns at a federal level with NO state influence – good start.

I’ve no issue with guns – no issue with you having a “howitzer” to hunt rabbits, no issue with 100 clip magazines for your tac-9. Even the dipchit with the customized AR15/silencer/body armor (for what – ricochet when hunting duck).

Knowing where a gun is - I just cannot find any downside to having law enforcement knowing where the weapon is…. NOT ONE. 

If they knew it was walking into a shopping mall, was in the backseat on a traffic stop, or is being kept in a home where a historically ‘bad behaved’ person is staying. Just think – if they knew someone was stockpiling them in a hotel room – in a 14 y/o’s closet – I can go on and on…

Know where the gun is – and you are well ahead of the game.

YEP – perhaps I’m just dreaming – and perhaps you can poke all kinds of holes in my idea. But at least we are talking in the right direction – as I do not EVER remember this kind of violence growing up – and now all we do is defend the right to have the violence and blame those most often effected (justice system) for the failures…. Pretty bad circumstance and quite frankly – a vicous circle.

Hopefully something more than the typical banter (and 2nd amendment fighting) will come from this…. This is NOT about the 2nd amendment - this is about finding a solution that works - because what we are doing - OBVIOUSLY isn't working...

Morelli and Joering. Peace be with the families…


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

Max penalty is 10 years. Being it was two police officers they should get double that.


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## laynhardwood (Dec 27, 2009)

Flathead76 said:


> Max penalty is 10 years. Being it was two police officers they should get double that.


I agree and that’s not enough but a max penalty needs to be enforced whatever that means by law.


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## bruce (Feb 10, 2007)

They had 30 years friend ship. HE knows him. A felon = no guns............................


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## brettmansdorf (Apr 5, 2013)

laynhardwood said:


> I agree and that’s not enough but a max penalty needs to be enforced whatever that means by law.


Agree - but in court - the judge will hear that the transaction is old - and that the court system was made aware of the felon possessing the gun on bankruptcy filings last summer - they listed the gun as an asset (couple in Westerville) - and that alone will cloud the arena - tough to call out the guy for this when the courts did nothing. Then comes the intent arguments and so on...

The fact the gun is in federal record as being at the residence makes all our bantering over rights and privacy and ideas seem - well - frivolous. Sure would have been nice if the responding officers knew he had a gun (and maybe they did - I don't know)...

One note I'll add... Have access for work - but I'm a bull in a china shop with the PACER system...

I can't see the entire complaint - but it would seem they (thankfully) left off the falsifying (form 4473) and unlicensed dealer (for profit stuff) - both notorious losers in court - but did see codes related to 'nominee purchase'. 

Perhaps a sign the US Attorney is looking for a small footprint - to downplay coverage - and churn this through the court - basically just plead it out. Put him away for a while, skip the publicity trail, and let Westerville get on with what it needs to do.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

laynhardwood said:


> A term the media and uneducated people have dreamt up to scare people. How many people think AR stands for assault rifle? Educated people realize it stands for Armalite Rifle. The media has twisted so many things around to gain the perception they want.


i totally get where your coming from. but i was referring to fully automatic assault rifles and not semi look a likes. the only real need to own such a weapon would be what???

as far as felons owning guns there is hundreds if not thousands of great guys that are not violent but got convicted of something that prevents them from having a gun. my little brother got convicted for possession of crack and now has a felony on his record. my youngest son had a 14 yr old girl with him that he has helped raise since she was small. he had meth on him and had put his hand on her shoulder and was charged with possession and battery on a minor. he pleaded guilty because if he went to court he was looking at atleast 2 yrs in prison. he got 6 months in jail. the girl said he didn't do or try anything with her he had just put his hand on her shoulder like he has done thousands of times before. but now he's a violent felon and cant get most jobs or own a weapon. i have had treatment for depression and ptsd and cant get a carry permit. and that's just wrong. i don't know if i can buy a gun but i already own a few. and i really wouldn't need a carry permit if i wanted to shoot some one. thank you for listening.
sherman


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## brettmansdorf (Apr 5, 2013)

AR15 is a platform not a specific gun! I - even the one looking to keep track of guns - am completely driven CRAZY by the media over that one - MORONS in a pressed suit - bobble headed actors. I personally think the 'system' and the modular ideal is just plain COOL - even in its muzzle-loader outfit. 

Face facts - its expensive - especially if you go crazy (buying 'accessories' and customizing it) - so its usually not accessible to the "crazies" (loony people). Its like a Harley - and a TRUE Harley dude (you know - older - with scars from wrecks, typically quiet and patient) - his bike is an extension or statement of himself. Even if he lives in a trailer - there is a ramp for his pride and joy - and he parks it inside the living room (seen that one many times). 

Customized and personalized - with pride and love. Something you will never ever see on mainstream news, because that personality doesn't serve their purpose... 

Side note - SHERMAN - I banter OFTEN - and too much (now that might get quoted once or twice)... Call it my way of 'learning' - I argue from both sides to come to a better view of it...

NOTHING I say is meant to offend personally (you or anyone else here) - please don't let it. 

I've seen pics of you and your boy - fishing - and if he can take the time to hangout with pops and fish for two weeks and you didn't kill each other - I'd suggest he is more mentally stable and genuine than a majority of those who would pass the background check - flawed system no doubt.

However - keep in mind - if you give me a whole bottle of scotch - I really think I CAN solve most of the worlds problems before then bottom of the bottle...


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## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

brettmansdorf said:


> FACT: Federal Straw Purchaser laws are RARELY enforced – as they have less than a 50% conviction rate with <10% sentencing rate. There is LOTS of precedence – this is a fun one….
> 
> http://www.guns.com/2017/04/17/straw-purchaser-with-4-felony-gun-charges-will-not-get-jail-time/
> 
> ...


Any type of tracking device or system can and will be hacked. Someone without authorization will know when you have your firearm on you and where you keep it. Just like credit cards. Then what? The media in Cleveland publicly posted gun owner's addresses and what happened? I don't care who you are...if I have a weapon it's no one's business but mine. Not the police, not you. 

And, it would be a very useful tool for confiscation. Any type of "public emergency" could be used to "justify" misusing such a device. Look at what happened in New Orleans after Katrina. Mass disarmament when the public needed their protection the most. Do you want the moron politicians that are elected to have control over a weapon tracking device? I sure as hell don't. They've shown time and again they can't be trusted. So yes, it would be a 2A issue.

There is already a system in place to notify police of law abiding gun owners. It's called a CCW or CHL or whatever other abbreviation they use. The bad guys are not going to follow any rules put in effect. And there are hundreds of millions of weapons out there that wouldn't be trackable to begin with.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Well, here we are again... Off topic...


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