# Important house bill for ohio CCW holders



## mike oehme (Aug 17, 2014)

Just wanted to pass this along to my fellow OGF"S in Ohio That have their ccw's. Take a look and take action, https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/action-alert-urge-committee-members-pass-duty-notify-bill-hb-425.


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## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

Thank-you Mike.


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## FOWL BRAWL (Feb 13, 2020)

Do the right thing and put everyone at ease,tell them as soon as they walk up to the vehicle.


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## mas5588 (Apr 15, 2012)

FOWL BRAWL said:


> Do the right thing and put everyone at ease,tell them as soon as they walk up to the vehicle.


Why? Do you let law enforcement know when you're going to vote or exercising other rights? If they want to ask me that's fine, but frankly it's none of their business.


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## luredaddy (May 25, 2004)

mas5588 said:


> Why? Do you let law enforcement know when you're going to vote or exercising other rights? If they want to ask me that's fine, but frankly it's none of their business.


It's none of their business??!! It is their business !! It is a GOOD citizen's responsibility to inform a law enforcement agent that he is carrying. It is known as being responsible. Too many people donot realize that the CONSTITUTION does not grant absolute rights. ALL of our rights are limited by the CONSTITUTION, not absolute.


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## mas5588 (Apr 15, 2012)

Before this gets out of hand I'll leave this as my last reply...

If I'm a good citizen (and I'd like to think I am, never done drugs, grand total of two speeding tickets as my only interactions with law enforcement), why does he/she need to know? I'm no threat to him/her. What does it matter to them? An off duty officer doesn't have to tell me he's armed. He ought not to be a threat, same as me. 

We have rights granted by that constitution and upheld by the Supreme Court. Rights, not privileges. Like speech, assembly, etc. This is the same. I don't need to tell anyone about exercising those do I?

Guess it shouldn't surprise me...saw a post on here a while back about the privilege of carrying....


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I have had OH CCW since shortly after it was passed and interacted with police officers with and without a weapon. They know you are a license holder before even approaching your car. The second they run your tag dispatch gives them your identification and lets them know you are a OH CCW holder. 

They have asked me pretty much right away if I had a weapon. Not once did they seem concerned or bothered; even a lone female officer in a somewhat deserted area - I asked if she wanted the handgun after she inquired and she said "no just leave it where it is". Only once was there any result except some casual conversation and me going on my way and that was a well earned speeding ticket by a highway patrolman (I'm no law breaker, but had a heavy foot on way to my wife's surgery).

I think legal OH CCW holders are the least concern of police officers working the streets.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

I've witnessed mas5588 make a number of excellent posts over the years.

The above is NOT one of them....and almost needs a strong DISLIKE button for us to hit.

The "why" is simple: because the lives of police officers are often on the line. Period. Letting them know that you have a carry permit helps them do their job safely and effectively...and makes it less likely that you may be shot by accident. Every body wins this way. 

The notion that he has the moral high ground on this topic is absurd, IMHO.

At the end of the day, you either value the job done by the Police or you don't.

I, for one, very much do. Displaying a permit or making mention of it is SO easy to do that it's silly to act p*ssed off about it, in the grand scheme of things.


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## loves2fishinohio (Apr 14, 2011)

mas5588 said:


> If I'm a good citizen (and I'd like to think I am, never done drugs, grand total of two speeding tickets as my only interactions with law enforcement), why does he/she need to know? I'm no threat to him/her. What does it matter to them? An off duty officer doesn't have to tell me he's armed. He ought not to be a threat, same as me.


Your post spews of our Constitutional rights, but makes zero sense. How is an officer going to know you are a "good citizen" just by looking at you. Does having zero speeding tickets make you a better "citizen" than having 2? Or does having 6 make you a worse citizen?

Officers are there to protect the peace. You carrying your own weapon is your own right, but it would be very foolish for you not to disclose you are carrying when approached by police.


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## FOWL BRAWL (Feb 13, 2020)

mas5588 said:


> An off duty officer doesn't have to tell me he's armed. He ought not to be a threat, same as me. .[/QUOT
> 
> The requirements and responsibilities do not change when the uniform is taken off or the time clock is punched.
> 
> I hope one day you can understand what they go through and respect the men and women in blue


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## mas5588 (Apr 15, 2012)

Ok, I lied..... One more . 

And I'll take the L on the forum regarding my opinion! But opinions are like ear holes... Everybody has a couple. 

BerkshirePres...I appreciate the callout on prior good posts!

Grandad was an officer. His brother was the police chief of the town I grew up in. His wife's brother was also an officer. I get what they do and the risks they take. No doubt.

I just look at the data on CCL holders and the number of times they cause problems with the law. It's super rare. I just don't think it's "good guys" that they ought to be worried about. And we should be the good guys seeing as how we've gone thru at least two background checks (and likely lots more).

Again, all good dudes. We don't need any more drama in the world right now!!!!

Peace!


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## youngunner (Jun 21, 2009)

Our rights are not limited by the constitution. The constitutions sole purpose is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical government. It in no way limits the rights of individuals. They are god given rights and the government shall not infringe on those rights. I think it is courtesy to let a law enforcement officer know if you are carrying but I would also argue duty to notify laws are unconstitutional. This is not a good cop vs good citizen argument or any of the above mentioned statements attacking the OP’s sentiment. This is a constitutional issue. It deeply saddens me to see the Constitution discussed as limiting the rights of private citizens, that is in my opinion a concerning statement to make.

Besides the constitutional aspect a law enforcement officer already knows if you have a Concealed Handgun License when they pulled over. This is a fact.

.


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

I have no problem telling a law officer I'm locked and loaded if approached. If I remember correctly while taking the needed coarse to carry it was one thing you learned in the class that you already agreed to do to qualify, now you make comments against it and how it crosses your constitutional issues. I just don't get it. Why didn't you do that in class?


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## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

Even good people go through tough times for one reason or another. Just because you are a good person there is probably a good reason you are being pulled over. At that point you should be notifying the officer if your carrying or not.
As far as the LEO already knowing if you have a CCW when you being pulled over being a fact is not true. Just because the licence plate comes back as someone who has been given a CCW licence doesn't mean the driver is the one who the plates are registered too. 

People steal cars, let others drive their vehicles and plates are stolen.................FACT


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## luredaddy (May 25, 2004)

youngunner said:


> Our rights are not limited by the constitution. The constitutions sole purpose is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical government. It in no way limits the rights of individuals. They are god given rights and the government shall not infringe on those rights. I think it is courtesy to let a law enforcement officer know if you are carrying but I would also argue duty to notify laws are unconstitutional. This is not a good cop vs good citizen argument or any of the above mentioned statements attacking the OP’s sentiment. This is a constitutional issue. It deeply saddens me to see the Constitution discussed as limiting the rights of private citizens, that is in my opinion a concerning statement to make.
> 
> Besides the constitutional aspect a law enforcement officer already knows if you have a Concealed Handgun License when they pulled over. This is a fact.
> 
> .


Many of our issues in society are caused by citizens young and old who believe their rights are unlimited by the Constitution. Volumes have been written on how our rights in the Constitution are limited. I am not going to engage in a discussion of Constitutional rights, a couple of examples will suffice. The Constitution gives you freedom of speech, but not absolute freedom of speech. You cannot slander a person; you cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater. The Constitution gives us the right to bear arms, but felons cannot own guns ; possession of fully automatic weapons is restricted. The Constitution gives us freedom of religion, but the use of poisonous snakes in religious ceremonies is restricted in many states. Our rights are limited , not absolute.


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## Yakphisher (Jul 9, 2013)

mas5588 said:


> Before this gets out of hand I'll leave this as my last reply...
> 
> If I'm a good citizen (and I'd like to think I am, never done drugs, grand total of two speeding tickets as my only interactions with law enforcement), why does he/she need to know? I'm no threat to him/her. What does it matter to them? An off duty officer doesn't have to tell me he's armed. He ought not to be a threat, same as me.
> 
> ...


How the hell the officer gonna know what you are like? Same way you come up to a stranger before you let your guard down and with these current situations going on lately it pay to be wise. The police will definitely run your plate for suspicion before approaching you unless you intend to do something foolishly cause people do change quickly as seen it many times. Don't be that ass!


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## mas5588 (Apr 15, 2012)

Yakphisher said:


> How the hell the officer gonna know what you are like? Same way you come up to a stranger before you let your guard down and with these current situations going on lately it pay to be wise. The police will definitely run your plate for suspicion before approaching you unless you intend to do something foolishly cause people do change quickly as seen it many times. Don't be that ass!


Gosh dang it. I'm trying to let this lay, but name calling gets me all butt hurt.

He knows I'm good because I passed a background check on the license. And if I passed that, I've more than likely gone through additional checks for actual purchases. Sure I can buy a firearm person to person without one, but if I went through one for the license...

Yes, ppl change. It happens.

A cursory review of LEO shootings by permit holders since 2007 reveals there have been a handful, and like every story there are more to many of those than just traffic stops. Sure, everyone poses a risk. But an officer is MUCH more likely to injured by someone else.

There are something like 40 states with no duty to inform. No blood running on the streets. 

Hell, my home state and a few others have enacted constitutional carry. No permit, no training (as if the OH training is anything more than not shooting yourself in the feet). And guess what? No problem. 

Ok. I'm officially unsubscribing from this thread and I'm not gonna check it.

My above post accepted the L on the forum. I get it. My opinion differs from the majority here. And I'm ok with that. 

Just remember. Cops are there to serve you and protect you. They are brave souls (most) but they shouldn't get so much leeway that they step on our rights.

Something about "those that wish to give up a essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither". Your boy Benny Franklin.

Peace kids


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## mike oehme (Aug 17, 2014)

It was not my intention to start a debate on the subject of informing LEO's as to weather or not a person should inform a LEO if they have a ccw and are carrying when pulled over. I was my intention to inform everybody of a house bill that will affect Ohio ccw carrying. That's it plane and simple. I know there are those who will appreciate it and those who will debate it. I chose to inform and not debate it.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

They know when they run your plate if you have a ccw, so they will assume you have a weapon... it's no secret


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## bearcat3993 (Oct 2, 2015)

ezbite said:


> They know when they run your plate if you have a ccw, so they will assume you have a weapon... it's no secret


Yep, it shows up on their screen in big red letters. 


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## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

bearcat3993 said:


> Yep, it shows up on their screen in big red letters.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


YEP as previously stated............as long as the driver is the owner of the vehicle, other than that its a crap shoot


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## bearcat3993 (Oct 2, 2015)

A few years back , I was letting my son drive my car to and from school. After a couple of weeks, I put the car in my son’s name for that very reason. I didn’t want him to get pulled over with my CCW permit tied to that vehicle and something happening. 

He always knew that I had my CCW and I warned him not to do something stupid if he got pulled over by the police. I told him to just keep his hands on the wheel until the officer told you to do otherwise. But after a couple of weeks, I decided that was stupid to put him in that situation, so I just transferred it over to his name. 


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

You want to know why I support Constitutional carry? Because the bad guys don't care. Do you think a bad guy with a gun is going to tell the police he has one? No. So why should it be illegal for the good guys?


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

I Fish said:


> You want to know why I support Constitutional carry? Because the bad guys don't care. Do you think a bad guy with a gun is going to tell the police he has one? No. So why should it be illegal for the good guys?


Why not let the Cops know you're one of the good guys as quickly and safely as possible? 
Pride, perceived moral high ground, or some other BS reason?


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

berkshirepresident said:


> Why not let the Cops know you're one of the good guys as quickly and safely as possible?
> Pride, perceived moral high ground, or some other BS reason?


No bs reason at all. In the midst of a stressful situation, it should not be a crime to forget, and yet it is.


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## FOWL BRAWL (Feb 13, 2020)

I Fish said:


> No bs reason at all. In the midst of a stressful situation, it should not be a crime to forget, and yet it is.


If you cant think straight enough in "a stressful situation" enough let LEO know your carrying maybe you should think twice about carrying


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## ruffhunter (Dec 10, 2005)

I didnt always have a chance to run a plate while stopping a car. *I WAS MORE AT EASE WHEN TOLD YOU ARE CCW AND TELLS ME ITS A PERSON I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT. That meant its a good guy. *I think 99% of all ccw carriers i dealt got a warning after that. I was surprised how many didnt carry when they did not inform and or after finding they were carriers. I always told them they should be carrying! 

There were a couple inner city thugs with continuous, documented not charged, criminal history, serious fi's being with traffickers or always at a shooting scene, scene of crime that were ccw holders. Often inner city drug gangs, usually in their 30s to 40s would use these guys as security for themselves or dope sales. So if they were stopped, nothing found, they were good to go. Had one perfectly functioning, and under the influence guy, we were always at his government apartment for handicap/disabilities dealing with him and his son,. Always disturbances, people showing up and fighting from middletowny (yeah im gonna hear it) east and west dayton. This guy said he had all kinds injuries and he was basically selling his pharmacy. One day i run him for warrants and low and behold he has a ccw. That county sheriffs got well notified. We have dealt with some total goof ccw carriers. 

One night at 3/4am im doing paperwork with my headlights shining on the 4 lane roadway. I looked up and thought did a car go by, but i dont see one looking each direction. I finally see an suv go under a street light a 1/4 mile away with no lights. I stopped it, no visible brake lights either. Middle-easterner driver never told me he had a ccw. He had painted his headlights and taillights over with black paint. You couldnt see anything. He did have some very low, small fog lights, but had them covered with a bunch of his business cards. I had him get out, to point out he had no functioning headlights due to his lack of logic. I did not pat him down. I told him to remove the business cards. When he turned his back and bent over, his shirt lifts up exposing a handgun (Not holstered). I pulled the gun out, tossed it in the ditch and pinned him against the car and cuffed him. He said was a ccw holder. I told him he was required to tell us. He said he was never told that. I told him, that was the first thing he was taught. Towed the vehicle and took him to post. Just happen to have a ccw holders handbook and showed him the training and in the handbook covered, "what if im pulled over/law enforcement contact". Cant remember if i took him to jail or not, i dont think so, but he was charged. I think the plates were in a business name and the ccw holder would not have shown up anyway.


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## ruffhunter (Dec 10, 2005)

Thats a total misconception! except assume you have a gun. I never always had a chance to run right away, plate in business/wifes/parents/trust name, Computers in the cruiser are NOT always fast, they go down often, updates. You might get one page of the driving record and then freezes, when you get back to your cruiser, you might have a couple more pages and still waiting on the plate info, where the ccw is attached. 


ezbite said:


> They know when they run your plate if you have a ccw, so they will assume you have a weapon... it's no secret


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## ruffhunter (Dec 10, 2005)

lololol yeah right. Not all systems are the same or programmed the same. 


bearcat3993 said:


> Yep, it shows up on their screen in big red letters.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bearcat3993 (Oct 2, 2015)

Well maybe not, but in one instance I was in the back of a cruiser and my drivers license was ran, it showed up on the township’s system. 
Somebody broke into my truck,and a policewoman came to take the report. It started to rain and she asked me to get in the back of the cruiser so I wouldn’t get wet while she took the report. After giving her my drivers license, she entered my info into the system, my CCW came up in big red letters. 

Another time, I was in KY driving through this one light town and got pulled over for going 5 miles over the speed limit. The cop was super nice. Told me there were complaints about speeders in that area so he stopped me to give me a warning to slow it down. He also asked if I was carrying because he saw that I had my CCW. Wasn’t really expecting that. I told him I was not at the time. He said thanks and went back to his car. 

I guess I figured if those two departments had me in their system, most others do too. 


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## mike oehme (Aug 17, 2014)

I Fish said:


> No bs reason at all. In the midst of a stressful situation, it should not be a crime to forget, and yet it is.


Forgetting is one thing, to purposely not tell is another and I don't like that at all. Most cops will cut you a break if you forget, but they wont if you purposely do not tell them. I really don't see what all the fuss is about telling an officer that you have a ccw and you're carrying if you get pulled over. Thats on of the things they preach to you in a good ccw class.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

FOWL BRAWL said:


> If you cant think straight enough in "a stressful situation" enough let LEO know your carrying maybe you should think twice about carrying


Oh, ok. So, why should forgetting be illegal if you do?

A better question might be why should someone who is legally allowed to own a gun need to have a concealed carry permit in the first place? Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming apparently trust their citizens a little more than Ohio does, since they all allow their law abiding citizens constitutional concealed carry. Those states haven't exactly devolved into the Wild West, have they?

Of those, only Alaska, Arkansas, Maine, and Oklahoma have a duty to inform law, so that leaves the other 12 where you need no license, and no obligation to tell the police you have a gun. Statistically speaking, the police in those 12 states have no more chance of being intentionally injured by law abiding citizens any more than they have in the other 38 states.


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## mike oehme (Aug 17, 2014)

I Fish said:


> Oh, ok. So, why should forgetting be illegal if you do?
> 
> A better question might be why should someone who is legally allowed to own a gun need to have a concealed carry permit in the first place? Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming apparently trust their citizens a little more than Ohio does, since they all allow their law abiding citizens constitutional concealed carry. Those states haven't exactly devolved into the Wild West, have they?
> 
> Of those, only Alaska, Arkansas, Maine, and Oklahoma have a duty to inform law, so that leaves the other 12 where you need no license, and no obligation to tell the police you have a gun. Statistically speaking, the police in those 12 states have no more chance of being intentionally injured by law abiding citizens any more than they have in the other 38 states.


Why do you have a bug up your ass about telling a LEO you have a ccw and are carrying? If you're a law abiding citizen, what difference does it make for you whether you inform a LEO or you don't? It will save you a lot of ass ache if you just inform than not. Like I said before, I posted this to inform, not debate the issue. Now this is turned into a political debate on constitutional carry vs ccw. Their are some people in this world that just don't get it!


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## Deadeyedeek (Feb 12, 2014)

mike oehme said:


> Why do you have a bug up your ass about telling a LEO you have a ccw and are carrying? If you're a law abiding citizen, what difference does it make for you whether you inform a LEO or you don't? It will save you a lot of ass ache if you just inform than not. Like I said before, I posted this to inform, not debate the issue. Now this is turned into a political debate on constitutional carry vs ccw. Their are some people in this world that just don't get it!


X10


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## BuckeyeCrappie1965 (Jul 15, 2019)

How about just doing what you as an American citizen feel is right as long as it is legal and leave it at that?


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

mike oehme said:


> Why do you have a bug up your ass about telling a LEO you have a ccw and are carrying? If you're a law abiding citizen, what difference does it make for you whether you inform a LEO or you don't? It will save you a lot of ass ache if you just inform than not. Like I said before, I posted this to inform, not debate the issue. Now this is turned into a political debate on constitutional carry vs ccw. Their are some people in this world that just don't get it!


Because I watched an otherwise peaceful situation devolve into a harrowing few minutes over it. If the officer hadn't been told there was a gun, the situation never would have happened. Contrary to some's beliefs, not all police officers are pro gun, nor logical.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

ruffhunter said:


> Thats a total misconception! except assume you have a gun. I never always had a chance to run right away, plate in business/wifes/parents/trust name, Computers in the cruiser are NOT always fast, they go down often, updates. You might get one page of the driving record and then freezes, when you get back to your cruiser, you might have a couple more pages and still waiting on the plate info, where the ccw is attached.


I've been pulled over 2 times this year, once for running a yellow and once for a rolling stop. the first time the first words out of his mouth were "do you know your CCW license is expired?" and the second time it was "are you carrying your concealed carry weapon?". so I really don't think I'm too far off on my statement saying they know when they run your plate.


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## mike oehme (Aug 17, 2014)

ezbite said:


> I've been pulled over 2 times this year, once for running a yellow and once for a rolling stop. the first time the first words out of his mouth were "do you know your CCW license is expired?" and the second time it was "are you carrying your concealed carry weapon?". so I really don't think I'm too far off on my statement saying they know when they run your plate.


there again, that only happens if you're driving your own car, what happens if you're driving a friends car or are in a rental car, LEO's wont know you're a ccw holder until you tell them like you were tought when you took your ccw class.


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## FOWL BRAWL (Feb 13, 2020)

mike oehme said:


> there again, that only happens if you're driving your own car, what happens if you're driving a friends car or are in a rental car, LEO's wont know you're a ccw holder until you tell them like you were tought when you took your ccw class.


Looks like a few of us get it


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

Let the guy know right away and it may save your life later in the conversation. With the way things are going now days for some reason him discovering it later may escalate into something unintended. There's no real reason not to if you want to carry a concealed weapon.


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## firemanmike2127 (Mar 17, 2013)

Been watching this thread take a few twists & turns. I value my right to have a CCW & take my responsibility as a permit holder very seriously. I practice regularly, stay informed on current laws & pending legislation, & challenge myself with drills that enhance my proficiency. In today's society LEO's have a huge responsibility & are constantly under public scrutiny. I feel that informing a LEO that I'm carrying is MY responsibility & helps keep me safe whenever I might have to interact with an officer. I've been a public safety professional in the Fire Service for over 25 years & also view it as common courtesy to the LEO's that keep us all safe. Mike


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Never wanted someone making my job more unnecessarily stressful or dangerous than it had to be and appreciated those I dealt with not letting me...or those working beside me fall prey to unwanted surprise's.
I have no issue at all extending the same courtesy to anyone else in their line of work.
That includes extending the courtesy of informing LE if I am carrying or not.
Whatever Bill passes concerning informing, knowing it makes an LEO's job a bit less stressful, I will continue to inform regardless.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

I think its a good idea to notify even if not required , it starts the interaction off with a good faith statement of truthfulness and could potentially just give the officer reason to trust whatever you say next a little more.

That being said , ALL gun control laws/regulation are an infringement that the constitution says " shall not " happen.

In case anyone is unsure , .....neither the constitution or the government grants rights. The constitution does not limit the people , its sole purpose is to limit government power. According to the constitution , government does not have the power or authority to regulate or legislate firearms. So if we notify , it should be seen as a courtesy not a requirement. I do see the opposing points and they are for the most part valid , but they are not a reason to give up any part of God given and constitutionally protected rights.

Thanks for the information Mike. Whether the laws and penalties are unjust or not they still affect us all and this bill seems like a move in a good direction. I wasnt aware there were issues , so I just learned something good to know


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## mike oehme (Aug 17, 2014)

Here is an up date on house bill 425.

At the urging of BFA's vast network of supporters, committee members passed House Bill 425 out of the House Federalism Committee last Wednesday.

Prior to the hearing, BFA's supporters contacted all members of the committee, delivering a total of 18,565 emails urging members to support the bill. The hearing lasted less than ten minutes. The vote was 7-2 along party lines.

House Bill 425, as amended and passed, would remove the duty of a Concealed Handgun License holder to notify a law enforcement officer that he/she is carrying a handgun unless specifically asked by the officer.

We think this would not only make interactions with law enforcement more pleasant and less stressful, it would make them safer for all concerned. Officers are trained to assume citizens have firearms and if they need to know whether someone is carrying, all they have to do is ask.

The bill was immediately moved to the House floor for a vote where it was "informally passed," which means it's being held for an actual vote at a later date.


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

I remember in the 70’s we carried a loaded 45 on the dash and never had any problems. We used to go to school with our Guns in gun racks And go hunting after school. The change came when the socialists had control, didn’t up hold the rules of law and didn’t prosecute criminals correctly. They let drugs and single parent families group together in low Income housing and financially support them for votes. As a twenty five year law enforcement officer I was never afraid of a true American that had a gun weather I new it or not.


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