# good day of hunting!



## jiggin'fool (Dec 18, 2005)

sorry don't really see it necessary to share in my excitement and enjoyment if all that is going to happen is getting torn apart.... thanks to those of you who taught me something!


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## wvsportsman (Feb 21, 2006)

Nice Buck! Congrats to your G/F and you..


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## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Great story, and glad you got the buck, but be careful where you spread that story, probably against ODNR regs to forward information about deer sightings to fellow hunters, and definately against regs to let someone else tag a deer you shot.....


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

now what did i miss?


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

now i see what i missed.
first,i've merged these posts with the original thread to keep things neat.

second,though that is one nice looking buck,but i agree with hardtop on the illegal kill.you were 100% in the wrong and if you told that to a game warden he'd nail you to the wall.sounds like you'd better brush up on the laws if you're that unfamiliar with them.that's no excuse,but i could swallow it a little easier than if you knowingly broke the law.if you know the laws,then you blatantly broke them(more than one).
imo you should be prosecuted according to the law,either way.
if you still want to tell it to the warden,i'd be glad to go along and see his reaction when you admit to breaking at least 2 or more serious laws.
this is all based on a one deer per day limit,and your own admission of carrying a loaded weapon and shooting another deer after filling your tag.
if i'm wrong in any assumption here,i will retract my statements.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

:! We all have done our share of questionable things, sometimes we may have thought we were right or legal, but sometimes what we think & what the law says are two entirely different things. This is one of those cases. Hopefully this will all workout okay for you, but I would NOT suggest telling this story to a game warden.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

I don't see how it was illegal for her to tag a deer she shot. From they way some of you talk it would have been illegal for either of them to tag it since they both shot it. I would think she should tag it as she shot it first, if it was a kill shot. But that is only if it was a kill shot. Jiggin fool, you said it was a lung shot. I doubt that. If it was standing there two hours later with a slug hole in it, well it is possible but not likely it had a hole in its lung. And unless you edited something out of your first post, I don't see anything illegal about letting people know about where deer are. I know you are not allowed to use handhelds or cell phones for that while hunting.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

no matter the condition of the deer,i would assume the person who puts the killing shot into the deer,is legally obligated to tag it.thus,it was illegally tagged.now for the license end,assuming the shooter possesed 2 tags in a 2 deer zone,he is legally permitted 2 deer per day,providing only one is antlered.
under those conditions,if he had tagged it,he was fine.
with those conditions met,i still stand by my opinion that it was illegally tagged.
now,i'm sure it was well intentioned,and i have no doubts that there are many people(some among us,including me)who have at some time,hunted with groups and done the "tag swap" thing before.
you know,put shooter(s)on stand and drive deer to be shot and tagged by other members of the drive.landowners using other family members to fill out tags for deer not shot by them.

so i won't crucify the guy for what he did,but in that particular situation,i see no the girlfriend couldn't have finished the job.that would only have added to her experience and made the deer more special to her.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

jiggin'fool said:


> SERIOUSLY! just re-read through the regs.


I don't intent to piss you off, but you may want to go back over those regs you just re-read and take a closer look at the area where it talks about using a communication device.

From the regs:

*It shall be unlawful to use any device capable of transmitting or receiving a persons voice to aid in the hunting or taking of deer.*

A hunter *CAN*:
*Possess a communication device for purposes other than aiding a person in pursuing or taking of deer.*



jiggin'fool said:


> I called my cousin to tell him not to move and to stay low.... I pulled up and drilled him in the heart!!!! he dropped right there....


That sounds like the communication device was in fact used to aid in pursuing or taking of the deer and therefore is ILLEGAL.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

I am confused as to what you all are saying was illegal communication.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

I see it now. Nevermind. Definately illegal.

But on another note. That looks like a nice buck. Post some better pics of it and your gf....lol, when you get them.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Huh? Hang on here. You mean she is NOT holding that deer up by it's antlers? If she isn't how on earth is that deers head above ground? 









That's one heck of a buck. I am just wondering how it's being held up if those antlers were broken and laying on the ground? Help please.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

jiggin'fool said:


> next time all everyone gets is a picture.... no story..


usually the stories are better than the pics, no offense but you were the one that wrote the story, it was no one else. Lots of people visit OGF & get info from posts. I think it's important that the laws are followed, epically when hunting is concerned. I can see a new hunter doing something like this: Calling a buddy on his cell while hunting to tell him he was going to take a shot close to him, then getting a ticket for it and having a firearm taken by the gamer warden. He would say "Whoa wait this is how _jiggin'fool_ did it. I saw his post on OGF". I still say awesome deer and a great trophy.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

Noone is saying you broke the law to shoot you down and cause you grief, they only say it because they don't want you to do it, get caught and in a bunch of trouble.


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## Fish4Food (Mar 20, 2006)

What a nice guy, pushes the monster buck, he knew was in the area out so his girlfriend could shoot it, and then made sure the deer was recovered. Thats an awesome deer man, sounds like you guys had a great day. I'm glad to hear that you got to see that big guy again, your girlfriend had to show you up tho, now she is gonna get a big head. lol
Dude, these replies are like anal cavities, everyone has one, and most of them stink. OGF do yourself a favor close this before 500 million people reply, like always, and post theirs. Points have been made for both sides, let it rest. That way people will be able to read the story, look at the buck, and share in another hunters experience, like was intended by the Thread.


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## 03zrider (May 17, 2004)

you did the right thing.what a a great experience to be able to have your woman even get out in the woods with you,she should be very proud of this deer.you probably gained a hunting buddy for life congrats


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Yeah man awsome buck and A+ on being safety minded.You could have just shot your cousin and lived with that for the rest of your life.Wouldnt killing Your Cousin be better than taking a chance illegally communicating,right? 

Btw that would be a good fight in court if you were caught.Did You telling him to hide behind a tree and stay low constitute as Aiding in Hunting.I dont think so!!!

Jealousy is a B#$ch.Enjoy your buck.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

ostbucks98 said:


> Jealousy is a B#$ch.Enjoy your buck.


I wont get in a pissing match w/ you, but your dead wrong about the jealousy thing. Safety.... That would bring in a whole bunch more stuff, like KNOWING where everyone in your hunting party is at all times, and YES in this instance it was used in a hunting aid. It's the law, period. We don't have to approve of the law, but it is what it is.


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## griffon (Jun 5, 2006)

flypilot33 said:


> I don't see how it was illegal for her to tag a deer she shot. From they way some of you talk it would have been illegal for either of them to tag it since they both shot it. I would think she should tag it as she shot it first, if it was a kill shot. But that is only if it was a kill shot. Jiggin fool, you said it was a lung shot. I doubt that. If it was standing there two hours later with a slug hole in it, well it is possible but not likely it had a hole in its lung. And unless you edited something out of your first post, I don't see anything illegal about letting people know about where deer are. I know you are not allowed to use handhelds or cell phones for that while hunting.


After talking with Jiggin, it sounds to me like the bullet may have split in half on impact. It sounds as though half went through the lungs and half may have split back through the stomach cavity. Apparently there was a lot of green granular stuff coming out, which would suggest a gut/liver shot. It is possible that if the bullet split, the digestive material could exit the lung hole, as the diaphragm would have torn. That would plug the hole partially allowing the deer to fill up slowly inside with blood and allowing it to live for several hours. I shoot a lot of deer each year in Pittsburgh (3 for family, many to homeless shelters, and a couple for landowners) and feel quite qualified to speak on this subject. Mine are all shot with a bow, and I have seen every possible kind of reaction after the shot that you could imagine, from dropping like a stone to double lunged high and running for over a mile before dropping. So yes, in the right circumstances, a double lung hit can take a significant amount of time to drop a deer.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

This thread delivers.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

jiggin'fool,

Your communication with your cousin, while technically very questionable is to be commended.

I would not hesitate for a second to violate a hunting law to ensure that I don't shoot someone. Write me up, I'll pay in a heart beat.

Very nice buck for your girlfriend. Have you taken a buck this year?


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

griffon said:


> After talking with Jiggin, it sounds to me like the bullet may have split in half on impact. It sounds as though half went through the lungs and half may have split back through the stomach cavity. Apparently there was a lot of green granular stuff coming out, which would suggest a gut/liver shot. It is possible that if the bullet split, the digestive material could exit the lung hole, as the diaphragm would have torn. That would plug the hole partially allowing the deer to fill up slowly inside with blood and allowing it to live for several hours. I shoot a lot of deer each year in Pittsburgh (3 for family, many to homeless shelters, and a couple for landowners) and feel quite qualified to speak on this subject. Mine are all shot with a bow, and I have seen every possible kind of reaction after the shot that you could imagine, from dropping like a stone to double lunged high and running for over a mile before dropping. So yes, in the right circumstances, a double lung hit can take a significant amount of time to drop a deer.



I am just talking from experience too. I have not before heard of a deer living that long with hole in a lung. A shotgun slug does major damage, even half of one. Once again I am not saying it is completely impossible, just not likely.


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## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Jiggn'fool........since I kind of started this debate over the regs, let me add one more bit..... First, I am with the rest of the guys who commend you for ending the deer's suffering in an ethical way, and helping your squeeze out at the same time. Second, even though your communication about the deer to your cousin, was safety oriented, a wildlife officer would likely inerepret it differently. These are both "gray" areas and if we eliminated all the ******** here that crossed that same line, we would be staring at blank screens. I don't nessecarily agree with the restrictions on communications, if you paid any attention to the fight to get two ways approved a few years ago you saw my name and photo in several state wide articles that eventually changed that old rule. But the DOW kept enough of the old language to allow WO to bust you if they have any reason to think you used a cell or two way to alert someone of a deers presence, be smart, think about what you say on air. In my original relpy, "my" main point was a suggestion to not post it on the "WORLD" wide web, and down at the local watering hole, keep the stroy to yourself next time and just show the photo..


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Let's face it, radios and cell phones are used illegally bunches and bunches, every day during the hunting seasons, just as the DOW knew that they would be, thus the clear language of the law.

I take two radios with me during the gun seasons. I typically get in a blind before daylight and stay there all day. One of my ways to pass the time is to set one radio to scan all of the channels. I get to listen to all kinds of hunting chatter all day long from many, many different channels and groups of hunters. I get to hear details of successful hunts and not successful hunts. Long blood trail followups that some work and some don't. I also hear a constant barrage of talk that is specifically illegal also. I can hear many instances where it seems to have improved the safety of some of the bigger drives I listen to, they are constantly checking the locations of each other during the drives

I'm sure that the vast majority of those radio users know full well what the law is concerning the use of those radios, however I think they keep it to themselves and go on about their business. I really don't think it's much of a problem, but no one should go on a public forum and talk about what most would view as a violation. Just leave those parts out of the story, it adds nothing positive.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

I am not at a full understanding of this law. Is it illegal to sit in a treestand and BS while hunting? Is it only illegal to say something like "the deer is headed right to you?" I really don't think it would aid anyone in killing a deer, it may aid a person in being more prepared and make a better shot maybe.


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## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

I think Lundy remembers me....thanks for the safety endorsment, but it sounds like you might still be in favor of the restrictions on what we can say. You also mention that the DOW "knew" that two ways would be used for aiding in the hunt........so...? In the few years since we have been allowed to use radios, safety has improved, and the deer population has risen, proving that even when "misused" as you and the DOW see it, they have no influence on the overall harvest....Case closed


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

flypilot33 said:


> Is it only illegal to say something like "the deer is headed right to you?" I really don't think it would aid anyone in killing a deer, it may aid a person in being more prepared and make a better shot maybe.


I assure you that the use of a 2-way can and does provide assistance in the killing of many deer.

I listen to it happen multiple times everyday during the gun season.


jiggin'fool,

The law is very clear on what can be legally said. The exact wording was quoted earlier in this thread.


Hardtop,

Sure I remember you, you used to be Hardcase. right?  

Without going into the depth we did before. I never disagreed with you on the safety merits.

Yes, I believe the restrictions were warranted then and still are today.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Hardtop said:


> if we eliminated all the ******** here that crossed that same line, we would be staring at blank screens.


Wow! 

Interesting conclusion


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

That does stink it's antlers fell off. Does that mean it was tagged as an antlerless deer. lol Not trying to start something else, but how does that work legally?


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

I stand corrected, since I have found out they "fell" off the deer and were not cut off.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

They fell off.


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## Fish4Food (Mar 20, 2006)

yea if you read jiggin's posts you will see the deer shed its rack when it hit the ground


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

I think that no matter what any GW would say that it could have legally been tagged as an antlerless deer. Not that I think one person should take two bucks in a year, but just for the sake of my curiosity I would like to know.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

It had antlers when the trigger was pulled and they have the antlers in their hands.

No way that could be tagged as anterless in my opinion.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

I will try and talk to a wildlife officer to find out. I am really curious. I will let you all know what I find out.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Go look at the original pictures. It's just hard to believe they were not on by the way the pictures look. 

If indeed they did fall off when he hit the ground This is a first for me. If so I stand corrected, and apologize to Jiggin" here for all to see.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

i must agree with lundy as to the deer being tagged as a buck.it's another one of those very uncommon situations,for sure though.i think it would be very rare for a buck to lose both antlers when falling,but if it was wearing them when shot,it wasn't antlerless.but now we're really getting out there.at any rate,it was a nice deer which they intended to mount(so would i),so all the speculation is moot.
jiggin'fool,
i was not going to add more,but just to clear up a couple things from an earlier post.i said i would retract any of my statements that were wrong.i used the word "assume" because you had not mentioned having 2 tags.when you did,i retracted that part.i made no accusations or coclusions because it was an unknown factor.i had/have no intention of condemning you for the way the deer was tagged.
but you implied that i was full of it in my interpretation of the law on who legally could tag the deer.so here,for future reference before accusing someone else of being "full of it",is the law directly from the law department of the ODNR that i received via email today.


> The law says, the person who kills the deer, gives it the final fatal shot, has to tag the deer. If there is a problem situation with this, it is advised that you contact your local county wildlife officer. Thanks


 note the "FINAL" fatal shot wording.
now i only checked it out to be sure for myself,and inform anyone who might think otherwise,s well as prove to you that i am NOT "full of it" on that point
feel free to contact them yourself,for confirmation.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

Thanks misfit for clearing that one up. I am just glad I wasn't part of this situation....lol I really don't care which way is legal for tagging it, since I don't think that will ever happen again. I just want to know so I know now. The thing that throws me though. If you have to tag a deer as it was (antlered or antlerless) when you shot, then why do you have to use a store bought deer tag to tag a deer shot on your property that ran to and died on another? Sorry, I just ask a lot of questions, maybe too many.


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## huntrjm (Sep 10, 2006)

Did you ever consider not taking a shot at a mortally wounded deer with your cousin in the line of sight?


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## Fish4Food (Mar 20, 2006)

Dale.....were you there? The buck had been shot two weeks prior to Jiggins experience. It is not at all uncommon for a buck who has been wounded, or is mal-nurished to shed its rack early so that the deer's body can focus on carrying out life processes needed for survival of the animal. The impact of the animal hitting the ground would provide enough force to jar both, being already loose, antlers from the craneum and seperate them from the scalp.
Jiggin has been my close friend for almost ten years. He is a man of integrity, and adhears to the game laws. You were not there at the time of the harvest, and you do not know this guy. Do not say "there is no way this happened." And accuse him of lying. 
They brought the buck over to my house that night, and both antlers had been shed, as both bases were fully intact still conected to the beam, and the skull was also fully intact. Do you know how hard it is to knock a buck's antlers off? You cannot do it while keeping the bases completely intact, and connected to the main beem. AND ANYWAYS SHE USED HER BUCK TAG ON THE DEER, why go through the trouble to remove the antlers if you are using a buck tag anyway....yea good arguement you have

Can anyone else think of anything Jiggin did wrong? 

Wait Jiggin', did you pick up your empties? ut-oh, now I'm going to call the game warden.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

flypilot,there you go,getting technical again   
but good question.maybe i'll research that one too.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

I sent an email to the DNR email asking them. I will post the response on here.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks Fly. I can't wait to hear what they say. I may stop by the main office if I can and ask myself. I live close to it. If I can I'll get them to post the exact law on here for all to read. That should clear it all up. I would be glad to say I was wrong but I dought we'll have to worry about that, as Misfit has posted the law he received already. 

Fish, no I wasn't there, but in my almost 40 years of hunting I've never seen it happen, But I guess we can learn something new can't we.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Dang Flypilot thats a good point. 

What if the fatal shot occurred on your property but it went a few hundred yards & dropped on someone elses property. I guess I never thought about that, but to be legal I guess it needs an actual tag not a land owner tag.


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## Fish4Food (Mar 20, 2006)

Dale, I sent you a PM.

In "my few, short years of hunting" which i spend nearly 30 hours a week in a tree-stand. No it is actually not a first for me. A friend of mine shot a huge buck, which had a previous injury, and when he tried to lift its head off the ground by its rack, the antler came right off in his hand.
Also my dad shot a deer, that had been hit by a car. It turned out what he thought was a banged up doe, was a buck that had shed his antlers early, due to the injury.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

A few years ago while driving to work I noticed something on the side of the road so I turned around to check it out. Well it was both sides of a very nice 10 pointer. Blood was still wet. He must have jumped off the road and hitting the ground caused them to both pop off and land less than a foot apart. But this was in like Febuary.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

it was shedding time for sure.i've seen deer shot in ml season that had just droped.and my buddy killed one with one side,but when he went lift it's head by the other half,it came off in his hand,LOL


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree Fly that in Feb. that can and does happen, That's the time most are dropping their racks anyway. You can almost touch some racks and they will fall off. Fish, I have seen that also, being hit by a car is totally different than falling off when being shot. 
We need to agree we 'll never agree on this subject. It's to the point of getting funny now. Lots of things "could happen" we'd just like to know what really happened that's all. I said it before- Nice deer I'm just glad it isn't laying somewhere dead. Glad they found it.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

I have been laughing about this a while now. This is great. And I am more confused than ever....lol


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I am sure you guys are good hunters and fine folks, but you've got to admit there has been some questionable stuff talked about in this thread.

-The use of the cell phone. As others have mentioned, prob should have known where the other member of the hunting party was at. Was the cell used in a way the law prohibits? Yes, not matter whether the intention was good or not.

-The kill shot in general. It was made to sounds as if the 1st shot was the fatal shot. If so, why was the other shot needed. It's also mentioned that the deer was shot a couple weeks later. If the thought that the 1st shot made by the girl on the day of harvest was the "fatal" shot, then why couldn't the same be said about the shot(s) two weeks prior? As Misfit quoted, the last shot by jiggin'fool by legal definition would be the "fatal" shot.

-The antler situation in general. From the way the pics look, I still have no idea how that deer head is being held up by the antlers if the antlers were not attached to the deer.

Jiggin'fool was the original poster, he was the one that chose to tell the story as he did. When a questionable situation or situations are posted, it in return will be questioned or asked for further details to be described.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

flypilot33 said:


> I have been laughing about this a while now. This is great. And I am more confused than ever....lol


Amen brother amen!!


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> And I am more confused than ever.


 LOL.you think it's bad now.wait for another 35 years and see how confused you are
i can tell you(so can dale,lol)when you get there it ain't funny no more


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

As dumb as I am I will be lucky to make it that long....lol


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> As dumb as I am I will be lucky to make it that long....


 no problem.that's what all my wives have said about me,but i fooled them


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

Removed pic cause thread now makes no sense And it was so much fun


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

God, we really do need ice *soon*


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## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

I personaly have witnessed this same situation happen . Back in the late 80's my grandfather shot at and hit a deer . It ran off and went over to where my father was sitting. My father shot the deer and it dropped right there . My grandfather came over and after they talked about everything , my grandfather tagged the deer . Well , my cousin was with them that day and knew everything that had taken place . He told someone what had happend and the next week their were officers at our door . Both my grandfather and father were questioned seperatly . They were found guilty for the law they had broken . They both lost all of the fire arms that they owned . They lost the right to obtain a hunting licence for 5 years and were fined close to $1,000 each . I learned a valuable lesson back then and it taught me to be more familiar with all the hunting laws and regulations . It also taught me how to make better jugments while out in the woods .

In the origial post it states the fact that the person who actually made the final kill shot on the deer did not tag it . I understand that the deer was shot by the other person already , but the deer was standing and alive when the last shot was fired . In conclusion and in the courts eyes , the deer was illegally taged by someone other than the individual that killed it . I do not believe that I could have posted the story without wanting to be returned with the responces that have been stated . I hope for your sake that this does not lead to any trouble for you and if it does , that the courts will be kind to you . 

Very nice deer no matter what . Congradulations .


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## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

Im not trying to get you uset about this . I just wanted to share an experience that I had saw first hand . I wish you the best and hope nothing ever comes from this . The regulations and laws that you can obtain when you purchase your licence or online are just a basic outline of things . There is alot of information that one should know that you can only obtain by contacting the ODNR offices . I do not know why everything is not published but it is not . I agree with everyone on the ice part . Man am I haveing serious withdraws ! Been 2 years to long ! LOL


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## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

FYI http://www.ohiodnr.com/wildlife/regs/deer.htm

Deer Checking 

Only the person who kills the deer shall present it to the check station. All deer must be checked in the county of harvest or an adjacent county, except an antlerless deer taken with an Urban Deer Permit must be checked in the urban unit where killed. It is unlawful to attach a temporary tag to a deer taken by another person. 

Deer must be checked by 8:00 p.m. on the day after harvest, except a deer taken on the last day of the archery season (Feb. 4), the youth gun season (Nov. 19), the gun season (Dec. 3 and Dec. 17), or the statewide muzzleloader season (Dec. 30) must be checked by 8:00 p.m. that day.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

It is not at all unusual for a deer to shed it's antlers in December. There have been many accounts of does being shot this past weekend only to find out they were bucks that has shed.

The pictures in this thread clearly show the pedicle intact, these antlers fell of of the deer without question.

I posted this study in the Bowhunter fourm a few weeks ago.

Long read, sorry.

This is from Purdue University


The 23 degree tilt of the Earth¹s axis is the ultimate 
cause for the annual cycles in deer antlers. This tilt is what causes 
Earth's annually recurring seasons. Deer have adapted their physiology and behavior to these seasonal changes, including antler growth. The environmental cue that regulates antler growth is the amount of day length, or photoperiod. 


The physiological cue is the male hormone testosterone. The way this works is complicated, but changing day lengths are sensed by the eyes, which send this message, via the optic nerve, to the pineal gland. The pineal gland - a pea-sized organ at the base of the brain - produces many different hormones. One hormone produced is luteinizing hormone, which controls the amount of testoserone produced in the testes. 


The antler cycle lags behind the changes in day length because the hormonal changes take time. During fall, decreasing day lengths cause melatonin production to increase, resulting in decreased production of both luteinizing hormone and testosterone. Decreasing testosterone levels then cause the antlers to shed. 


In the past, it was believed that deer withdrew to secluded places to shed their antlers in order to avoid the loss of virility in 'public.' However, it is likely that deer are unaware of when they will lose their antlers. Antlers are shed when a thin layer of tissue destruction, called the abscission layer, forms between the antler and the pedicle. This layer forms as a result of the decrease in testosterone. As the connective tissue is dissolved, the antler loosens and is either broken free, or falls off on its own. This degeneration of the bone-to-bone bond between the antler and the pedicle is the fastest deterioration of living tissue known in the animal kingdom. 


In whitetails, a restricted diet has been found to cause bucks to shed their antlers early. It has been suspected that the lack of adequate nutrition somehow effects testosterone output. Nutritionally-stressed bucks may also grow their antlers and shed their velvet later. Older-aged bucks are thought to shed their antlers earlier than younger bucks. It has also been reported that higher-ranked (more dominant) bucks cast their antlers sooner than lower-ranked (subordinant) bucks. Older-aged, more 
dominant bucks probably shed their antlers sooner because of the high energy costs incurred in maintaining a higher dominance rank. 


The farther deer are from the equator, the more defined their antler cycle. In other words, northern deer have a shorter "window" of when antler shedding can occur, compared to deer herds in southern states. In addition, the specific date when a buck will shed his antlers may be determined more by his individual antler cycle than any other factor. This cycle is independent of other bucks and is believed to be centered on each animal's birth date. 


Penned deer studies have allowed scientists to measure the exact dates of antler shedding for individual deer year after year. One study in Mississippi found that individual bucks usually shed their antlers at the same time each year and almost always during the same week. Yearling bucks with only spike antlers shed sooner than yearling bucks with forked antlers, likely because they were more nutritionally stressed than fork-antlered bucks. This study also indicated there was no relationship between antler mass and date of antler shedding, although other studies have shown that bucks shed their antlers earlier as they grow older. Additional penned studies have also revealed that bucks usually shed both 
antlers within three days of each other. 


Although there is no clear evidence that weather directly affects antler shedding, it is likely that severe winters may also cause bucks to shed their antlers earlier than normal because of the nutritional stress this causes.


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## griffon (Jun 5, 2006)

I have a buddy here in PA that killed a nice 8 pt. on the last day of our season, two weeks ago. When he walked up to it, it was bald. Laying next to it was one of the antlers. Him and his father backtracked and searched for over an hour for the other antler. They went back to the deer and rolled it over to field dress. Low and behold, there lie the other antler underneath the deer. Both fell off when the deer impacted the ground. 

I have deer at my bird feeder every night. Two nights ago, several doe showed up. Guess what, two of them have bloody antler sockets where the antlers have fallen off. I guess it can happen and doesn't take forty years in the woods to see it... 

Knowing Jiggin'Fool, I will defend him to the end. His integrity is second to none and his story has not changed from when he called me when the deer was finally on the ground. We really need more sportsmen like him among our ranks.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

Well the DNR hasn't replied to my email yet.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

> -The use of the cell phone. As others have mentioned, prob should have known where the other member of the hunting party was at. Was the cell used in a way the law prohibits? Yes, not matter whether the intention was good or not.


Explain how it was illegally used.Based on His initial quote he only questioned a fellow deer hunters position and advised him he was about to shoot.Please explain why you think that it was illegal.



> -The kill shot in general. It was made to sounds as if the 1st shot was the fatal shot. If so, why was the other shot needed. It's also mentioned that the deer was shot a couple weeks later. If the thought that the 1st shot made by the girl on the day of harvest was the "fatal" shot, then why couldn't the same be said about the shot(s) two weeks prior? As Misfit quoted, the last shot by jiggin'fool by legal definition would be the "fatal" shot.


Yeah this one is clear but who hasnt killed and given deer away.



> -The antler situation in general. From the way the pics look, I still have no idea how that deer head is being held up by the antlers if the antlers were not attached to the deer.


I wondered the same thing and looked at it for about 10 minutes before realizing the ears were in her hands.



> Jiggin'fool was the original poster, he was the one that chose to tell the story as he did. When a questionable situation or situations are posted, it in return will be questioned or asked for further details to be described.


Yeah but its sad when people troll the board just looking to stir the pot.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

ostbucks98 said:


> Explain how it was illegally used.Based on His initial quote he only questioned a fellow deer hunters position and advised him he was about to shoot.Please explain why you think that it was illegal.


I cant the post has been edited.



ostbucks98 said:


> Yeah this one is clear but who hasnt killed and given deer away.


Are you kidding me? The answer: Any law abiding hunter. Just because lots of people do something agaisnt the law, does that make it right? How many people drink & drive..... Should we say that's okay too?  Are you saying that you hunt or have hunted deer, shot them & just given them away? Those are signs of someone enjoying it for the killing of the animal not the sport of it.  I hope that's not the case, as it's people like that who promote the sport in a bad way.



ostbucks98 said:


> Yeah but its sad when people troll the board just looking to stir the pot.


Take a look at the people who have replied in this thread.... these have not been people who are into :T the boards.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Jiggin" thanks for getting back to me. As I told you in our PM I apologize to you and appriciate your reply. That take a stand up guy to do that. I now know how happy she must be. Good luck next week if you get back out. Thanks again.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

Matt,

Since the hunters original intention was to harvest an antlered deer, the proper way to tag that deer is as an antlered deer. I have never heard of this situation occurring before in the fact that both antlers were shed. If any situations like this were to occur in the future, the local wildlife officer should be contacted and advised of the situation. Happy Hunting and Happy Holidays



Wildinfo-law





-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:17 PM
To: Wildinfo
Subject: Question



Hey, 



I have a question. I am a member of the Ohio Game Fishing Forum and there is a topic on there that is causing all to question what the legal answer is. The thing is.a person shot a buck with both antlers attached. As it was dying after the shot, it shed both of its antlers. What is the legal way to tag this deer as it was an antlerless deer when found?



Thanks,

Matt


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

They gave an answer based on their own opinion and not on what was the legal thing to do.By their response if i shot at a buck and missed and killed a doe I should tag it as an antlered deer(If their response was the written law).However alot of laws are not cut and dry like say murder.So thats why we have lawyers to go in there and argue over what a law means or suggest.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

Yeah I wasn't too impressed with the response, but hey at least they responded.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

personally i think the answer was pretty clear if you read it as intended.
and i also think every possible question arising from the original post has been answered.even if everyone didn't like all the answers  
i can think of no more questions/answers or opinions that could in any way help this thread or benefit the author.so i think it's time to put it to rest.


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