# A little help



## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

This something I sent to The O.D.N.R. I think if more people would show the O.D.N.R. some more interest in upland game birds perhaps they will see that it is necessary to do more for the habit and introduction or at least do what ever it takes to bring up the #'s so that Ohio has a substainable population.

Help is needed!! Let the O.D.N.R. know your thoughts. It only takes a minute.




I am a avid hunter and fisherman. I also have a degree in Fish and Wildlife management from Hocking College.
I am e-mailing you for one highly just cause. That being the lack of interest that I feel is being put towards the management of our upland game birds. The decline in grouse #'s in the last 10 to 15 years have gone unnoticed or noticed without concern by the O.D.N.R.. Only now has the hunting season been shortened which in my opinion will have little to no effect on thing's. With my background and conversations with instructors and biologist that mostly all concur with one thing. That one thing is the lack of habitat and heavy predation. I have heard the excuses of the low price of wood lumber and other things. If steps are not taken, then my children will be asking me what a grouse, pheasant and a quail are. I am sure that the D.N.R. doesn't want that to happen but with out some sort of action other than shortening the hunting season. I will be sure that the outcome will be just that.
I many cases the release of quail and pheasant by privet land owners that have taken it upon themselves has produced fairly stable #'s On there property should give a glimmer of hope to us all.

All I am asking is that some of the money that I have spent over the 23 years of huting. Whether it is some of the deer tag money, license money, or just tax money that I have given the state be legated to some sort of upland game bird restoration

Thank you


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## labman (Sep 13, 2008)

wildman i agree but did you know that when odnr release pheasants its cock birds only if they have any hens they trade them in for more roosters.odnr will tell you a pen raised bird wont breed but i know for a fact they will and hatch,i have seen many birds in the summer around my friends hunting preserve.


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## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

They will not breed. WOW that means that the hatcheries must invent the egg or go out in the wild and collect them. 

I agree that we need to start pushing the state into doing something more than blaming the hunters. The state idea is to fix a problem by not addressing the primary to issues that you already mentioned. I moved to Ohio in 98 and have purchased my fishing and hunting license every year. I also would like to see my money going to some upland purpose.


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## Llewellin01 (Feb 23, 2008)

They will breed and lay eggs, but a majority of the pen raised hens will not try to hatch the eggs. Which means even more food for predators.


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## vinnystatechamp (Jun 20, 2006)

what is that e-mail address that you sent that to? i would like to send them one myself. i sent them an e-mail concerning quail hunting in greene county. it took them at least a week and a half to reply. what's that e-mail address?


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

www.dnr.state.oh.us Is the site to send it to.


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## longhaulpointer (Mar 12, 2009)

good luck with that, ohio makes money off of turkey and dear. They charge extra to hunt them and have to do nothing to increase habitat or numbers. Face it were screwed. On a lighter note, on the last week in feb i put up good numbers for ohio, 11 different birds in 4 hrs. Thought i was in wisc for a while, but the hills and briars of scioto quickly reminded me otherwise.


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## FSZ (Mar 12, 2009)

You hit it spot on. No $$$ equals no small game. Money is in deer and turkey. States with high upland bird numbers get $$$ from people on trips/non residents (e.g. south dakota pheasants, wisconsin grouse). 

Collectively, Ohio sportsman tolerated the DNR's mismanagement of upland game as a trade-off for high deer and turkey numbers. The DNR will blame "habitat LOSS"- Yeah, right. If they get to take credit for deer and turkey then they get the blame for grouse, pheasant, woodcock and quail.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

If you look in the Ohio news They actually had a section mentioning how the grouse was the most talked about issue at the Wayne headquarters meetings. So if it is been brought up in the news letters then maybe a few E-mails would do some good. 

*good luck with that, Ohio makes money off of turkey and dear. They charge extra to hunt them and have to do nothing to increase habitat or numbers. Face it were screwed.* 

With those kind of negative thoughts we would of never become the great country that we are. ( lets hope we stay great) I do under stand were you are coming from.

Send e-mails and every time you talk to a wildlife officer bring it up Call 1-800-wild-life. If enough people on these kind of sights show interest something maybe done. ( Hopefully)


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## T-180 (Oct 18, 2005)

Grouse management is completely different than pheasant & quail. With the help of pheasants forever & CRP, I see way more pheasants today than I ever did in the past ..... and I'm old enough to go back to the late 60's. As for the quail, the severe winters of the late 70's wiped out most of them & the farmers clearing all the fence rows have doomed a recovery.
As for the grouse, I agree that they need more management, but most people hate to see logging & clear cuts which are exactly what the grouse needs. The opening up of mature forests helps deer as well as grouse, but people hate to see it.
I think turkeys may have had an impact on the grouse pops , too.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Pheasants and quail I live in southwest Ohio and there are a lot of open field in my areas where the quail population can come about. Pheasants, there was a day that there were fairly large #'s in the central part of the State. What you are missing is if the Intrest is shown by the average hunter instead of the groups like pheasants forever ( not knocking them but They are see as a group) that the state see's $ signs and a large # of interested hunters. 

As I read some of these post I see an attitude the the war is lost. The state gives tax breaks to people that don't farm there land. I'm sure something could be worked out. If the letters and E-mails can increase then that shows an interest and a need. I for one do not think it's over. My glass is half full not half empty.

As for grouse there is now excuse why strides have not been made by the O.D.N.R. The public doesn't like clear cuts. drive down st. rt. 32 on like left by jackson the is a sign where a clear cut was done it states "watch us grow cut in '96" its the the perfect way to change the people that don't like clear cuts. Today you can not see that sign except in the fall and winter. 

Now is the time to send E-mails bird hunters and all hunters, none of us want to see the total loss of our bird population our kids don't want to see the lose of our bird population!!!!

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Default.aspx?alias=www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife


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## Trautman (Aug 7, 2007)

Its interesting to see folks interested in grouse numbers. I was involved with the PF chapter in Northeast Ohio for years and put in hundreds of acres of habitat. Switchgrass fields which still stand today. The division is not interested in pheasant. Heard it right from their lips. Not indigenous to our state. Least that was the position 10 years ago. Grouse could be managed. Go to PA they do it all over the Allegany Forest ...successfully I might add. I have a setter I would love to take back into the hills again with more than a couple of bird flush day. The division is not interested in what we are interested in. The WTF did 75% of the work to bring the turkey back to where they are at now. Ask any of the folks who were actually there. That is what it will take for grouse. A big push with good money. Not sure we bird hunters have the numbers in Ohio.


JMHO

T


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## ouflyboy9 (Aug 12, 2008)

I would trade deer for upland birds anyday - much more fun - imo


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## missingND (Aug 26, 2005)

Too understand why the State doesn't do more for upland hunting all you have to ask yourself is "where would they stock the birds?" They can't use state money to stock private land and if you've hunted public land you know that the state owns very little open for hunting land. Even with reproducing birds the state lands wouldn't hold them long during the season as they'd quickly move to less pressured private land. Case in point waterfowl move off public land here in the SW soon after the shooting starts and don't return till spring. 

Out west the state and federal government owns millions of acres of land open to hunting not to mention waterfowl production areas, CRP, and PH lands. I don't know if it's changed yet but when I lived in ND, unposted private land was open to hunting without the need to locate the owner for permission. Combine those things with sparsely populated areas and you quickly understand why Ohio will never become an upland bird hunting destination. 

Folks we just don't have the open hunting land to do it with!

Your best hopes are to get access to private lands and work deals with the land owners so you can stock birds on thier land. Then be willing not to hunt them for several years so they can get established in the area. Then have the discipline not to over harvest each season.

Being a Republican I'll never understand the "lets get the government to fix it" approach so many are willing to take. Folks you can fix this situation on your own. I've got a lot more faith in what you can do than I'll ever have in any government to solve ANY problem.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

i have the same feelings but I feel that we pay a lot of money to hunt they could at least help by doing some timber management to help reestablish the pockets of grouse before they are to few. it the pockets are to spread out it will take a long time to bring the #'s back. 

The are plenty of federal land on the eastern sides of Ohio for grouse. Coal company lands could join in. I know they are pipe dreams. I should know better than to expect to get any thing out of them.


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## longhaulpointer (Mar 12, 2009)

i'm confused, is this about phez/ quail management or grouse mgmt? If you really want to stir the hornets nest get into the gov paying farmers to not farm thier land and basically get payed for their own private hunting land a la crp land. Did you know that they get roughly the same or a little bit more per acre than they would for an acre of soy. Take into it that the crp land is the less desirable farm land, and that some farmers, (know this for a fact, so i don't need any arguments), rent their crp land to guides for private hunting of deer and upland game, and essientially the farmers are getting paid double to do nothing. Aint america great. Do you know why farmers bend the bill on their hats so much? So their neighbors cant see their faces when there getting thier gov'nt checks from the mail box. Heard that one from a friend that is a social worker who can't understand why a farmer who owns a couple million dollars worth of land gets paid the same as some welfare momma who has never heard of a rubber. Anyhow got off topic, drive around scioto or pike or brush creek, plenty of cuttings within the last 10 yrs. you have to get off the road and do some hiking, but there are plenty of fresh cuts. just to late.


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## T-180 (Oct 18, 2005)

Where did you get your figures for what farmers get paid for CRP longhaul ....... that's way off ??!! I agree that they can get more for crappy land that trying to farm it, but to say it's the same as what they can get for a field of soybeans is just plain wrong.
Now, back to Wildman's original thread about grouse ......................


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## longhaulpointer (Mar 12, 2009)

i got that info from a friend who is a social worker for clermont county, he told me how much they recieved per acre. I talked to the odnr wildlife officer in fayette county (2008 hunting season) who told me the exact $ figure that they recieve for acre. he also told me that they (wildlife officers) are encouraged to talk to farmers to try to sign them up for crp and the crep land. Now him being from fayette, living up there his whole life, explained to me how the farmers get $10 less an acre than the going rate for beans an acre. Then he went on to explain that the land is generaly less suitable for growing, requires no maintainence ie, chemicals, seeds, harvest cost, and that the farmers were making about the same, if not more by loaning their land to crp or crep programs. 

now admittably, i live in city, but i have lived in the country. I can tell you this, i don't get paid to not cut my grass, i get fined. And i sure as hell dont get paid extra to do half of my job at work. All i'm saying is if the farmers are going to accept the money for these programs that come out American Workers Taxes, then the afore mentioned workers should have access to those land areas that they in part pay for, the same as we have acess to state and national parks. 

sorry, i get fired up about this. but to me this is no different than welfare. Or getting paid to do nothing. I have knocked at several doors with hundreds of acres or crp and i'm always told the same thing "Sorry, but we let or friends and family hunt there".


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

It was always my understanding that if the farmer was getting subsidy to NOT farm his land then there was a clause that said he MUST allow public hunting. I know in other states that use the CRP program, this is the case.

Huntinbull


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## hunterforlife (May 26, 2009)

This is a funny situation since it seems so easy to fix, but if it was easy it would already of been solved...lol...There are alot of people to blame, but anyway to bring back the birds there are only so many things we can do for them...Part of the problem is not everyone really understands the birds and have only hunted them at a preserve...( sorry i am rambling but trying to make this quick, although its gonna be long)...If you get on the dnr websites of other states like Iowa, South Dakota, they know what their doing...If ohio changed some of their laws to be more like Iowas,etc we would have better hunting oppurtunities...First of all there needs to be $12.50 habitat stamp that would improve and purchase more publicland to hunt on---for pheasants, quail, and grouse...That would generate alot of revenue...People also need to understand that The grouse are in the east to southern part of the state, quail are in the southern part, even though they could be in the NW and W part of the state, Pheasants are in the NW part of the state, and Central...So what i'm saying is you can't expect there to be pheasants in the eastern part of the state...Ok...They should also make it illegal to mow roadside ditches,,,and also legalize the hunting of public rite aways,---roadside ditches, railroads, etc...Farmers should have to legally have part of there land set aside for wildlife 50% woods, 50% upland habitat...Also Farmers should delay mowing of hayfield until late july, early august...Many,Many, Many hens, and their nests are killed due to mowing,,,,and I think thats rediculous...Thats part of the way bird hunting could be improved in Ohio according to ME...lol...Oh yeah and I'm also a armchair biologist just like everyone else...jk...


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## longhaulpointer (Mar 12, 2009)

amen to the stamps, should be just like migratory bird stamps for duck hunters, or deer tags, and i think, but not sure, that you have to have a tag for turkeys.


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## dressup9x (Jun 26, 2009)

hic hic, i don't understand....


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## hunterforlife (May 26, 2009)

dressup9x said:


> hic hic, i don't understand....



what dont u [email protected]


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