# Looking for clerification



## dmur13 (Jul 10, 2009)

I attended the PLBM open at Portage yesterday where there was a DQ
for passing the boat in front of it. In the discussion with tourney officials
I overheard the Sr protestor say "I am not protesting the pass, but the
speed at which you did it." If this is true and the #1 team was DQed, do
we all need to carry cameras and protest the speed of another team?


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## williamonica0214 (Aug 1, 2006)

I was not there and only know what you are posting. Portage is a all idle speed lake. not including the ski zone. with that being said if both boats are going idle speed there should be no passing. Just how i see it


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## GotSpaceOnMyWall4U (Oct 6, 2010)

William is absolutely correct.... Boats are let go with a 10 second space on a no wake lake. The boat that passed NUMBER 8 was BOAT 18.......how does this happen unless 1) boat 8 stopped (and didnt) or 2)boat 18 was speeding. Idle speeds very on every engine if there is an issue with your motors idle speed fix it because if a watercraft officer sees you that wont be an excuse for him/her trust me (ive been busted for it). Everything was completely legit with the DQ and how it was handled. The rules are plainly stated on the tournament paper that YOU MUST SIGN BEFORE the money even exchanges hands.


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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

John, Don't plan on fishin any of our events. Correction to earlier post, it was the PLBC hosts, not the PLBM.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Hope the events of Saturdays tourny don't take away from the fact the guys running it did a good job. I don't fish many tournys but certainly hope the ones I do are ran with the same integrity as this one. The tournament director was obviously emotional when making the announcment of disqualification. Not qualified to pass judgement on this but if a rule is broken it is the responsibility of the tournament officials to protect the others who have donated.


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## OHBMQUINN (Sep 11, 2007)

Evry thing written by others is correct idle only means idle only you arnt suposed to pass in a nowake zone also and if a lake has a speed limit and boat numbers are drawn you cant pass unless the boat you pass can not run the speed limit great job tournament directors on this one


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

my heart goes to the tournament directer in this situation. after doing some investigation its my opinion that knowing the guy that filed the protest likes to stir the kettle when ever he thinks he can. he himself has a reputation for speed ing no wake zones cutting people off ect. but then has the nerve to protest some body else because he got passed by a boat he says was speeding? with portage being so big and mostly all no wake  protest like that could go on all day. my hat is off to this tournament directer for running this event and giving people a chance to go and compete and have a good time. to the guy that filed this protest there you go once again being a butthead and trying to put some one else on the spot to mess up thier day and event


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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

mikeshookset said:


> my heart goes to the tournament directer in this situation. after doing some investigation its my opinion that knowing the guy that filed the protest likes to stir the kettle when ever he thinks he can. he himself has a reputation for speed ing no wake zones cutting people off ect. but then has the nerve to protest some body else because he got passed by a boat he says was speeding? with portage being so big and mostly all no wake protest like that could go on all day. my hat is off to this tournament directer for running this event and giving people a chance to go and compete and have a good time. to the guy that filed this protest there you go once again being a butthead and trying to put some one else on the spot to mess up thier day and event


Well said Mike! As usual there is much more to the story but what it all boils down to is jealousy and envy. If ya can't catch em, ruin it for those who did.


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## Skarfer (Jan 27, 2006)

It's a shame that it happened - but there's always people like that in this world. 

I totally agree with Billy boy though, it's a no idle wake and there should be NO excuse for boat #18 to catch up/pass boat #8.......that's 10 slots, 10 sec. apart - or over a minute and a half difference...........definately a discrepency in "idle" speed.


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## Triton20X (Apr 11, 2008)

lakeslouie said:


> Well said Mike! As usual there is much more to the story but what it all boils down to is jealousy and envy. If ya can't catch em, ruin it for those who did.


Sounds like they ruined it for themselves by going too fast. 
Can't blame a guy for protesting someone when it gets upheld by the tournament director. C'mon Louie, even if it is your friends or they're in your bass club, rules are rules! Didn't you use to be a tournament director?


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

i think louie hit it on the head it comes down to jealousy and envy . my opinion is this tournament directer got blind sided by this protest to start with. that is evident when hopin to cash said the tournament directer was emotional when he made the annoucement. that tells me he was put on the spot . after some more investigation what i found out was the ranger will give you 10mph on portage if you are more than 100 yards from shore. boat 8 could have been passed by boat 18 even with a 10 sec interval between boats depending on what line boat 8 was running and what line boat 18 was running and what part of the lake they was in as we all know portage is a wide lake. to prove the point of how hard it is to inforce no wake on portage the flw regional was held there 2 weeks ago and even they said that they wasnt going to entertain protest on it. then put into thought that depending on a boats hull confiqure ration some baots my make a wake at a slower speed than anouther boat so that could also play a part in boat 18 catching boat 8.. with all that said the tournament directer is the only one with the facts present to him so we need to stand by his rulling. on the other hand we also have the right to frown on a guy that would file this kind of protest on a lake like portage to start with and make it tougher on a tournament directer than it need to be. then throw in the facter that the guy that filed that protest is being complained about because he will speed in no wake zones cut people off ect to the point that some tournament directers wont even let him fish anymore. kinda like calling the kettle black isnt it? is it wise to throw stones when you live in a glass house?


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Note to self: 

"Don't ever run a tournament on Portage again"...oh wait, I listened to self.

Add this scenerio to the list of con's for this waterway, not many pro's- that's kind of ironic to say...actually just downright disappointing.

The enemy is winning from every direction on this 26 boat turnout.


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## Triton20X (Apr 11, 2008)

mikeshookset said:


> i think louie hit it on the head it comes down to jealousy and envy . my opinion is this tournament directer got blind sided by this protest to start with.


I'll go ahead and blow those two theories up with facts then you guys can concentrate on the real issue.

The tournament director was made aware of the situation shortly after 8am, right after it occurred. He was far from blindsided. If he showed some emotion it's because DQ'ing somebody, especially someone with the potential winning weight is a tough, tough call.

Not sure where the jealousy or envy comes in. The couple boats in question hadn't reached their first fishing spots when the director was notified a protest was forthcoming that afternoon. Maybe the protestor has ESP and just knew the violators were gonna catch 10 or 11lbs and he didn't want them to win.

I don't care who protested or got DQ'ed. The entire lake is no wake and there is no passing of boats in a no wake zone. End of story.


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

Triton20X said:


> I'll go ahead and blow those two theories up with facts then you guys can concentrate on the real issue.
> 
> The tournament director was made aware of the situation shortly after 8am, right after it occurred. He was far from blindsided. If he showed some emotion it's because DQ'ing somebody, especially someone with the potential winning weight is a tough, tough call.
> 
> ...


well at least you admitted we stated facts. now when he gets hit with the same protest we will see how he reacts to the situation and know there are guys just waiting to file the same protest about him on portage because he does the same thing he protested.


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## Triton20X (Apr 11, 2008)

mikeshookset said:


> well at least you admitted we stated facts. now when he gets hit with the same protest we will see how he reacts to the situation and know there are guys just waiting to file the same protest about him on portage because he does the same thing he protested.


On that particular day a tournament rule was broken and enforced with evidence. *It can not be construed any other way*.

What is bothersome is guys like you have some personal vendetta against the guy who filed the protest (correctly and within his rights) and come on some public forum and try and vilify him.

Take it up with him personally or hide in the bushes and watch for him to break a rule. Until then please grow up. You make yourselves look bad and completely trample all over the sportsmanship aspect of this sport the rest of us try to uphold.


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## GotSpaceOnMyWall4U (Oct 6, 2010)

Well said Triton,

Personal vendetta is what this is going to turn into. "John" will have to fish with his back to the wall for awhile it looks like. Obviously the DQ'd is a good fisherman just like MANY others out there just had a bad day on the lake when it comes to rules, not the fish. 
For everyone else out there reading don't let this discourage you from tournaments, fishing, and comradery that we all have as fisherman/outdoorsman which we are all out there for. Goodluck out there sunday everybody.


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

Triton20X said:


> On that particular day a tournament rule was broken and enforced with evidence. *It can not be construed any other way*.
> 
> What is bothersome is guys like you and lakeslouie have some personal vendetta against the guy who filed the protest (correctly and within his rights) and come on some public forum and try and vilify him.
> 
> Take it up with him personally or hide in the bushes and watch for him to break a rule. Until then please grow up. You make yourselves look bad and completely trample all over the sportsmanship aspect of this sport the rest of us try to uphold.


 oh i see i have opinions on something so that makes me unsportsman like? how about you become a tournament directer and deal with some of this for a year or 2 then tell me about your opinions. no body said anything about personal vendettas on here at all we only talked about the protest and what we thought of it wich is what the guy that started this thread was looking for. it never fails that when some one has a opinion even backed up with facts that some one that dissagrees with it resorts to calling it favoritism or a personal vendetta.


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

dmur13 said:


> I attended the PLBM open at Portage yesterday where there was a DQ
> for passing the boat in front of it. In the discussion with tourney officials
> I overheard the Sr protestor say "I am not protesting the pass, but the
> speed at which you did it." If this is true and the #1 team was DQed, do
> we all need to carry cameras and protest the speed of another team?


to get back to where you started this thread i wouldnt be sure if a camera would help much on this lake because it wouldnt show speed. thats why cops use radar guns for speed they couldnt just look at you driving down the highway and tell you how fast you was going by eyesight . a camera would be cheaper than a gun for them but it dont tell speed either. a camera would be usefull in a protest for fish off limmits catching some one taking fish off a stringer or out of a basket things like that.


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## Triton20X (Apr 11, 2008)

mikeshookset said:


> no body said anything about personal vendettas on here at all we only talked about the protest and what we thought of it wich is what the guy that started this thread was looking for.


LOL!
You better re-read your previous posts.
Your more worried about the guy who filed the protest than the actual issue at hand.

Wait...could it be?...Yes! Kudos Mikey, you did finally address the issue in a subjective manner in post #18!


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

Triton20X said:


> LOL!
> You better re-read your previous posts.
> Your more worried about the guy who filed the protest than the actual issue at hand.
> 
> Wait...could it be?...Yes! Kudos Mikey, you did finally address the issue in a subjective manner in post #18!


there you go once again twistting things lol my main worry was with the tournamnet directer being put in the situation he was put in. then i adressed why the protest would be hard to deal with. then after that is when i said what i said about the guy that filed the protest for his actions . the proublem your buddy now has is when he gets protested for the same thing the protester can site the rulling that was made when your buddy filed that protest and won the protest.


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## Triton20X (Apr 11, 2008)

mikeshookset said:


> the proublem your buddy now has is when he gets protested for the same thing the protester can site the rulling that was made when your buddy filed that protest and won.


For the record it should be noted that my "buddy", the guy who filed the protest last Sunday *DID NOT* end up winning the tourney, as a matter of fact I don't believe he even made the money.

I agree If my "buddy" is protested for the same violation and there is evidence to support it then I hope he gets DQ'ed.

Anything else?


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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

Triton20X said:


> Sounds like they ruined it for themselves by going too fast.
> Can't blame a guy for protesting someone when it gets upheld by the tournament director. C'mon Louie, even if it is your friends or they're in your bass club, rules are rules! Didn't you use to be a tournament director?


Ya I was. And no I don't have a personal vendetta against John. I was the first to congratulate him on his bad bass win last fall and the first to defend him when Mike hijacked one of my threads about him. I consider our relationship as friendly. However as you know there are 2 sides to every story. 

Logistically speaking, it is completely possible for boat 1 or 8 or whatever # to catch another boat and be completely legal. Ohio's legal definition of no-wake is: speed that does not cause watercraft to create a wake. Not all boats run (wake) the same. My 19' will catch bigger rigs everytime and be legal in doing it. Every officer I've talked to over the years, which was quite a few in both instances, say they will ticket you if you are pushing a whitecap. That is the criteria most, but not all officers use. 
Think about this example: you're heading for east res and you're boat #18. You get to turkeyfoot and 2 boats head for the south end, 2 for mud and 6 ahead of you in channel. You idle all the way to the iron channel and 3 more boats veer off to fish the harbor or bird s**t island, approaching east, 1 veers off to fish by Vic's house, the other to the catswamp, now the only boat in front of you is #8. # 8 veers off to enter miller while #18 goes straight toward cottage grove. #8 changes his mind and then decides to come back and now fall behind #18, who has yet to do anything illegal. #18 proceeds to his area and catches his winning bag within 45 min. #8 was there too and couldn't figure it out (envy), so decides to call director to say that he was passed. 

I feel for the director here. He should never have been been put in that situation. But he had to decide something, after all, rules are rules. It was cheap!! No wonder he had a difficult time.
A lie detector would easily clear up the matter of truth, but dollars to dimes, protester would not have fronted the money to do it. End of story. 
Some men fish for honor, some for smoke and mirrors. Nuff said!


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

Triton20X said:


> For the record it should be noted that my "buddy", the guy who filed the protest last Sunday *DID NOT* end up winning the tourney, as a matter of fact I don't believe he even made the money.
> 
> I agree If my "buddy" is protested for the same violation and there is evidence to support it then I hope he gets DQ'ed.
> 
> Anything else?


who said ANYTHING about him being in the money or not? and if there is anything else i will surely let you know.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Boy the things we can learn when you guys get excited. I used to fish muskies only because most guys fishing shared information like where, when, how and what with. They were a good group of guys and never fished for money. The excitement of someday beating all the pros (bass guys) keeps me donating. I'm still learning the ropes but when I fished Portage last week and the only fish I caught in two days of practice was the furthest point away from the boatramp and not very good size I decided to stay in the big lakes. Besides my timing at idle said it would take nearly 45 minutes to get there. Knowing the history of Portage figured it would take at least 12# to win. Guess I should have entered the race to the other end of the lake as well.


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## Triton20X (Apr 11, 2008)

mikeshookset said:


> who said ANYTHING about him being in the money or not? and if there is anything else i will surely let you know.


That's what it sounded like when you posted this...

"_the proublem your buddy now has is when he gets protested for the same thing the protester can site the rulling that was made when your buddy filed that protest and won_"

I see you have since edited your post to read ..."and won the protest".


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## Triton20X (Apr 11, 2008)

lakeslouie said:


> Ya I was. And no I don't have a personal vendetta against John. I was the first to congratulate him on his bad bass win last fall and the first to defend him when Mike hijacked one of my threads about him. I consider our relationship as friendly. However as you know there are 2 sides to every story.
> 
> Logistically speaking, it is completely possible for boat 1 or 8 or whatever # to catch another boat and be completely legal. Ohio's legal definition of no-wake is: speed that does not cause watercraft to create a wake. Not all boats run (wake) the same. My 19' will catch bigger rigs everytime and be legal in doing it. Every officer I've talked to over the years, which was quite a few in both instances, say they will ticket you if you are pushing a whitecap. That is the criteria most, but not all officers use.
> Think about this example: you're heading for east res and you're boat #18. You get to turkeyfoot and 2 boats head for the south end, 2 for mud and 6 ahead of you in channel. You idle all the way to the iron channel and 3 more boats veer off to fish the harbor or bird s**t island, approaching east, 1 veers off to fish by Vic's house, the other to the catswamp, now the only boat in front of you is #8. # 8 veers off to enter miller while #18 goes straight toward cottage grove. #8 changes his mind and then decides to come back and now fall behind #18, who has yet to do anything illegal. #18 proceeds to his area and catches his winning bag within 45 min. #8 was there too and couldn't figure it out (envy), so decides to call director to say that he was passed.
> ...


I assume the example you posted is the side of the story you were told.
Have you talked to John or anybody else who might have witnessed the incident?
I'm just curious, there are usually two sides to every story.


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

Triton20X said:


> That's what it sounded like when you posted this...
> 
> "_the proublem your buddy now has is when he gets protested for the same thing the protester can site the rulling that was made when your buddy filed that protest and won_"
> 
> I see you have since edited your post to read ..."and won the protest".


yep i edited it after reading what you wrote i went back thru the post to see who mentioned money or who finshed where then i fiqured thats where the money thing was interpeted into it so i made it more clear


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## nixmkt (Mar 4, 2008)

I did not fish in the tourney but have some questions about various points noted in this thread.

Some have mentioned "idle speed" as a restriction. My understanding is that except for the speed zones, Portage is "No Wake" vs. "Idle Speed". Is that correct? Did the tourney rules limit to idle speed?

And apparently, there is a speed restriction of 10 m.p.h. Here are a couple regs from the OAC:

*1501:47-3-08 Ten-mile per hour speed limit; exceptions.*
No person shall operate a powercraft within or on any water of the division of parks and recreation at any time at a speed greater than ten miles per hour, except from sunrise to sunset in the designated speed zones, ski zones, or open zones.
R.C. 119.032 review dates: 07/20/2006 and 07/20/2011
Promulgated Under: 119.03
Statutory Authority: 1547.52
Rule Amplifies: 1547.52
Prior Effective Dates: 10/30/77, 8/16/84, 11/3/98

*1501:47-3-14 No wake zones.*
No person shall operate a powercraft within or through a shore zone or danger zone or through any area marked as a no wake zone at anytime at a speed that produces a wake. For the purpose of this rule, a wake is defined as a track left by a watercraft in the water causing waves that may cause discomfort, injury, or damage to persons, watercraft, or property.
R.C. 119.032 review dates: 07/20/2006 and 07/20/2011
Promulgated Under: 119.03
Statutory Authority: 1547.52
Rule Amplifies: 1547.52
Prior Effective Dates: 8/16/84, 10/30/77, 11/3/03, 11/3/98

The definition of "wake" would appear to leave open a wide interpretation. The "pushing a whitecap" method noted by someone seems reasonable, but something less could cause "discomfort" for some and be considered a violation.

Someone noted there is no passing allowed in a no wake zone. Is this in the actual regulations or tourney rules?

I am not familiar with the specific tourney rules, but is would seem that even with a delayed start a boat with a hull that produced minimal wake could pass a boat with a hull that produces a much larger wake, and still be within the OAC "no wake" and "10 mph" rules.

A camera could provide evidence of a "no wake" violation but not about speed.


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## RANGER16 (Jan 17, 2007)

Just to clarify!!!!! I was in this tourny ( boat #11) and the rules clearly stated that you cannot pass a lower numbered boat unless the boat in front of you pulls off to fish. That team signed the paper so they agreed to those rules.


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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

Nix, Most tournaments here are run that there is no passing for the initial start of the tourney. This is to honor the start numbers issued. This is not a state rule but a tourney rule. Also they are no-wake events, as per permits issued, unless organization running event specifies idle speed only. I have yet to see that at Portage events. It would be rediculous. You are also correct by observing the fact that there is a wide of interpretation of "no wake" in our laws and in my opinion should not be determined by a tournament director. Thats what law enforcement is for. 
Oh and to clarify, the team in question does not have a problem with the rules and accepted the rule against them. As someone said to me about this, it is really sad how this went down. Can't we all get along out there?

Note to self: When fishing a tournament at Portage, take camera along to snap photos of boats ahead of me pulling off to fish, so that I will have evidence against those who will accuse me of passing them. 

Sound rediculous? It is. As someone made a valid point earlier, this is going to open up a big can of worms.


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## Cull'in (Nov 21, 2005)

I didn't fish a single tournament at Portage this year and didn't miss it a bit for the above reasons and more.

Great fishery but a tough place for an organization to hold an event without some type of drama. "That guy was speeding...so and so cheats...he was on _my_ spot...three boats pulled right in on me...they were casting over the buoys at the swim beach"...etc,etc,etc...


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

> You are also correct by observing the fact that there is a wide of interpretation of "no wake" in our laws and in my opinion should not be determined by a tournament director. Thats what law enforcement is for.


...............................and



> Great fishery but a tough place for an organization to hold an event without some type of drama. "That guy was speeding...so and so cheats...he was on my spot...three boats pulled right in on me...they were casting over the buoys at the swim beach"...etc,etc,etc...


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

Cull'in said:


> Great fishery but a tough place for an organization to hold an event without some type of drama. "That guy was speeding...so and so cheats...he was on _my_ spot...three boats pulled right in on me...they were casting over the buoys at the swim beach"...etc,etc,etc...


This is why I gave up on the golf league I was in. It (like this) sounded like my kids room when she had her friends over and they didn't get along


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