# Midwest Sportsman



## MIKETORBECK (Apr 11, 2004)

Just so everone knows Midwest Sportsman has updated some rule for the 2006 fishing season and also updated the website with last years classic results and this years classic info. 


Feel free to check us out at www.midwest-sportsman.com I think youll 
like what you see. 

Within it the next few weeks we will post all ohio tournaments circuit schedules. 

iIf any of the circuits or interested in organizing a circuit because there is not anything close to you give me a buzz

Mike Torbeck
Midwest Sportsman Ohio state director
local director on Bischoff Reservoir in near Sunman, Indian

[email protected]

www.freewebs.com/1bassmaster


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Hmmmm..... hmmmm.... I just can't stop myself. As an angler, as a director, as the ding dong that I am some times at 230am, I gotta do it- no one else will.

Every single last team that went to the 2005 classic from my local division came back with reports of complete disappointment. Not from the fishn'- a few even made checks- but from the exceptionally poor way the national event was handled. From lack of direction, lack of reported payout (yes, I did the math), no check-in boats, poor fish handling proceedures and just an all around lackluster and unprofessional performance of the national team running the show.

I was a Midwest member in 2005. I did not attend the classic as I did not qualify. I am going by what was communicated by several folks who I personally hold in high regards and they have 20+ years fishing events, with many "national" championships of a garden variety under their belts.

These folks also reported their concerns to the regional director, Jon Jonella who did an AWESOME job locally as many of the MidWest directors do.

He did his job and professionally represented the concerns to the appropriate regional directors and so on in the chain of MidWest.

Their response- they canned him.

I question this National Trail and their ethics. I don't question their payout- I know it stinks, compared to what the massive amounts of $ the weekend anglers around the country puts into it. Someone is making MAD cash. 

They are well run out from the NE Ohio Region and will not receive support from the group of anglers who were able to experience an exceptional locally run series in 2005. 

Midwest lost a budding director and growing tournament group by their continued unprofessional pillage of the weekend angler. 

I'd love to hear a rebutt on specifics posed. 

I mean no harm to the Central Ohio divisions who look promising for 2006. 

Nationally though- p.u.

Nip
www.dobass.com


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## GREENFISH77 (Apr 7, 2004)

I agree Nip. 

On the brighter side of things, here in Columbus, we have a rapidly growing tournament membership. The payouts locally are the best around and Phil and I try very hard to keep our anglers happy. So if you are interested in Midwest Sportsman, look at the local side of things not the national. Just picture it as a local tourney with some good guys where you can make a decent check and maybe in the end have a shot winnin a couple of boats.


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Hey Green- great perspective and I agree with your exceptional positive attitude.

I just hate to see guys and groups like yours though, who obviously do the right thing and promote positive attributes of tournament fishn, then get scraped by the bigdogs who are setting you up (THE "CEO" OF THE ORGANIZATION). 

Midwest gets the credit of having great directors and spokepeople for them, then tear from payouts and put on a terrible show that you put your neck out for to pump everyone up for during the season. It ends up reflecting negatively on the good guys and a lot of hard work to let someone else profit from.

I wish you guys the best down there in 06'. I would encourage you to take the great thing you got going and do it own your own without Midwest.

I jumped on grabbing Jonela for my team, how about a Central dobass district! lol  

Nip
www.dobass.com


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## GREENFISH77 (Apr 7, 2004)

thanks nip for the input. Also if anyone has any questions at all about Midwest locally or nationally, dont hesitate to pm me or Hydrasports73 (Phil).


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## Marshall (Apr 11, 2004)

I think the Midwest Sportsman Central Ohio Circuit is a very well run tourney with paybacks you won't get anywhere else. I encourage people to fish this division because it is great. That being said, i fished the classic. I have never fished in a tourney with 350 boats before so this was all new to me. I don't have anything to compare it to other than our 30 boat field which i am very pleased with. Over all i thought the midwest classic was a good experience but i too had a few disappointments. Launching from different ramps and weighing in at a different ramp was a huge inconvienence. I had to make a 13 mile run to the weigh in in my 17' sea nymph which was kind scarry considering how ruff the lake got. Then i had to have a buddy take my partner 13 miles back to get the truck because by then the lake was so rough i would have sank the ss sea nymph trying to get back to the trailer. Removing your fish on the water to your weigh bag sucked also. That was only on day one for me, day 2 i was able to take the boat out at the weigh in area. Day one weigh in was not prepared to weigh in the massive amounts of fish. Day 2 handled the fish a lot better. I didn't do the math on payouts but barely missed a check. On the positive side, i got to know guys from my division and other divisions a lot better. Enjoyed going out to eat bsing with the guys. Got to fish for 5 days and caught a ton of nice bass. I would have never ventured to Kentucky lake if it was not for this calssic. Now i want to go back and just fish for fun someday, that lake is awesome and has some big fish. The classic may a have went smoother if the field was cut to around 200. Who knows , i still think they did a good job getting all the boats called off and on their way especially for the massive amounts they had to launch. Im in this for fun and had a good time and hope to qualify next year.


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## Nickadams (May 1, 2004)

I don't think there is any doubt that at the local level Midwest Sportsman is one of the best around (the best in my opinion). I have fished other tournaments and felt like I got ripped off even if I didn't cash a check. When on a 1 time tournament $1300 goes in and $500-600 gets paid out I don't think that is fair. Our director (Phil Carver) puts a lot of work in, and I know he even invests some of his own money for trophys and plaques. He doesn't even get any of that money back until the end of the year. Everything is well organized and everyone is well informed. I know we changed a couple start times this year, and everyone knew what time to show up. He managed the 30+ boat field very well.
Now, on the national side I see the potential for problems. I qualified for the classic in '04 and I had a great time, without one complaint. But, I think the launching from two ramps would be very confusing and having to drive your boat an extra 13 miles like Marshall said is more than a small inconvienence. I also heard that next year they may be weighing in on different scales (at different ramps). If for some crazy reason I was in the top part of the field, I would have a problem with that. I mean you are talking about 350 boats all putting up weights between 0-30lbs there are going to be some close weights! 
Personally, I think the should probably start to limit the National field as the circuit continues to grow at a local level. The ramp at KY dam can handle 300 boats and that is probably about what they should limit it to. At the local level they should give out a number of spots based on the size of the circuit. (which they pretty much do allready with the 30% rule) they might just have to make it a smaller % since the circuits are growing and there are new circuits created next year.
But the bottom line is Midwest Sportsman is cool, and at the local level it is great. I think the membership fees come back in the form of 90% payout at the ramps, even if I don't qualify for the big show I feel that at least I had a CHANCE to win that money back.
By the way... Phil posts a payout schedule on his website at the local level. Maybe we should request the Midwest national directors to do the same. Also, remember it takes quite a few to organize/execute an event like the Midwest Classic and I doubt they are volunteers.

I apologize to Gabe. Gabe (Greenfish) is the asst. diretor and is vital to the smooth operation of these local circuits. Even though he has never offered to go fishing with me


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## GREENFISH77 (Apr 7, 2004)

HEy adam, we'll get out next year man. Its just these kids keep me busy, the only time I can go, is the day of the tourney. We harly ever practice. But I'd love to go with ya, just dont spill anything in my boat!


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## Nickadams (May 1, 2004)

Gabe that spike it is the best smelling thing in Phil's boat, including Phil!


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## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

I can see where some guys had some comments about this past years classic . Let me say this , everytime you try to make a changes to make things better something just doesnt work out right no matter how small or how large an event is . I feel that the national classic directors learned alot this past year and saw that some things were better left alone and that some things still needed some more change . They are working hard with all the local directors to gain input as to what people want and what could be done to make this event more enjoyable for everyone to attend . 

I had some issues with the way some things were done this past year myself ,especially before the tourny started while we were prefishing . Even after I got home , I had some comments to make for a few weeks . All in all , I was not as unhappy as I thought I would be and with the issues I had a problem with , after some things were explained to me , I have felt alot better . 

As for the local side of things , I feel that we have one of the best groups of tournament fishermen around . Most of our guys will go out of there way to help a team that is struggling catch some fish by giveing them baits they are useing , spots to fish and techniques , even if it ends up keeping them out of the money they feel better that they are helping someone not get frustrated and quit . 

Gabe & I try to do our best and run things as smooth as possible . I know that we have alot to learn and that we need to work on a few things we have noticed ourselves . We put every thing we have into this division and we feel that it is one of the best local circuits around . Our divisions continue to grow rapidly every season . Our first year we only had 7 teams fish our weeknight tourny's with us . The 2nd year we doubled in size . As for our weekend division , we had 34 teams our first year . We anticipate reaching 50 teams this season . 

I was very sorry to see Jon Jenela go in a different direction for next season . He is a very good tournament director and a heck of a great guy . I also appreciate everything you did to help him out last season NIP . He learned alot from you and it made his division run very smoothly . I'm sure he realy appreciated it also . I wish you both the best of luck and hope you keep that 60 boat field full every event !  

If any one is interested in either of our Columbus area Divisions or in the Mansfield area divisions , feel free to contact us . We will gladly help you out anyway we can . See everyone in the spring .


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

You guys are awesome- come up here and fish! Good energy man!!!!!!

Work 'em and keep 'em straight. Sounds like you should run the Central Ohio Open Anglers Association....hmmmmm? lol

If you guys get a break, jump into this one with us next year~

http://www.dobass.com/MOSQUITOMADNESS/MAY20MAY21.html

Nip
www.dobass.com


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

well i am so surprised!! i know nipp can fiqure math quite well !! i also know that john did an outstanding job in ne ohio . my opinion for what ist worth is it was a big mistake to cann the ne ohio director for doing his job well sounds like midwest just lost the ne ohio division alltogether. i wasnt at the national championship but sounds to me like i am glade i didnt fish that tourny!! how do ya put 350 boats on the water and not have a check in boat?? aggressive anglers see that on day 1 and on day 2 do they worry about being in on time? 2 wiegh in spots isnt up my alley either as to who knows for a fact both scales are wieghing the same exact way? i have watched what the local directors in ohio have done and my hat is off to them its a damn shame to see one of em get canned for giving it his all to do a great job!! i want to wish john well as i know he is a great guy and will do very well in his next move


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## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

First off , let me say that there was a check in point and that there was 2 people there both days . The check in people were on the break wall at the KY dam Ramp and when you idled by on your way to weigh in , they wrote down your boat # , that is the reason they give us the BIG stickers with our # on them . As for the figureing up the $$$$ , I found out that alot of things guys think are just given to Midwest Sportsman actually have to be purchased . The 2 Nitro boats & the Tracker Boat are not given to Midwest for free , they are purcheased at a lower cost for the advertiseing that Midwest does for them . The food at the banquet & the pulled pork dinner were all paid for by Midwest , they may be sponsored in part by someone else , but they are not free . Also , dont forget the insurance policy that it takes to run a national circuit , this cannot be cheap . 

As for Jon , I can never say enough good things about him . I believe he gave it 110% last season . I dont think anyone could have did it better the first year as a director . With Jon & Rory teaming up together , the North East Ohio guys will have a great tournament circuit to fish .


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## RANGER 422 (Jul 6, 2005)

The Classic was a disaster in many ways than one. A local bait shop owner was in it, when asked how, his reply was that he lived 120 miles from Ky lake and qualified on another division. Now tell me how many people drive 250 miles a day to sell plastic worms, come on!!! They said there was going to be coast guard boats in the canal, did anybody see them??? NO!!! Now you have boats blasting off from Barkley and Ky, I dont know about anybody else but it was a not a good thing to be going at the boats that were trying to get to Ky and others going to Barkley, thats nuts. There are many tournaments that go from Ky dam that have that many boats. The tournament director for this division was caned? For what?? Because he tried to voice his opinion and make things better? He is one of the most honest people you will find and I hope the best for him if he starts his own thing. He was helped by one of the best directors in this state put this thing together and done as good and maybe better as any national director could ever do. get the facts and just see how many entries there were from that area in a classic. That was put there so everybody could have the same chance. Put the Classic in a state that has no division in that state or a state that borders that state and then it will be equal for all to fish.


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## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

I guess we should have the classic in California !


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## GREENFISH77 (Apr 7, 2004)

The guys who won were from OHIO


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## fishin4five (Dec 2, 2005)

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Thank you for all your kind words regarding the Northeast Ohio division of Midwest Sportsman in 2005.

I understand this is somewhat after the fact, but I am no longer the director of the Northeast Ohio division of Midwest Sportsman. At this point in time it is my understanding there will not be a Northeast Ohio division in 2006. I would like to apologize to those who fished with us last year and those who were interested in fishing in 2006. 

2005 was a great year for Dave, my assistant director and me. It was an excellent learning experience. I personally enjoyed getting to know everyone. As a relatively new, young angler in the area I didnt know many people prior to 2005. I knew a lot of names but didnt know many faces. I feel we were able to establish a decent sized field for our first year. We had many respectable anglers with a great deal of experience fishing our tournaments. Thank you to all who fished in 2005.

I would also like to take a moment to thank our sponsors who placed their faith in two young guys in their angling quest. Much appreciation is expressed to Ray of Rodmakers Shop who donated some great prizes in 2005. Thank you for all the rods! Also, Buckeye Sports Center offered a great deal of support in getting the tournament trail started. I hope the gift certificates were all wisely spent! Lastly, I would also like to thank Rory Franks of FBFP. I cant thank you enough for all your help and advice. Im looking forward to the 2006 season and Mosquito Madness!

It is unfortunate that the Midwest Classic went the way it did. Dave and I had been looking forward to it all year. Kentucky and Barkley offer some great fishing and it meant that Dave and I didnt have to go to work for a week! However, the two days of competition were disappointing, not due to poor fishing (we had a blast on the water) but because of the way in which the tournament was run. I knew I was in for a surprise when a member (he was either a director or assistant director) of the Midwest was going around telling everyone around me at the pre-tournament meeting to just bear with the Classic directors. The gentleman, whose name I do not know was even stating that this Classic doesnt compare to those of ABA and other amateur classics that are run by actual fishermen; and to take your 90% payback and go on your way. I thought to myself, why settle for 90% when we have 100% payback here in NE Ohio on home waters. I even put my own money into the pot to make some of my local Midwest tournaments 100% in 2005. After putting so much of my own time and money into the local division, it was upsetting to see such a poorly run classic. There were many issues that I had myself or that were brought to my attention by my members. Organization and professionalism were definitely lacking. I feel as a director I have the responsibility to represent the paying members of my district in the Midwest organization. That is what I did. After my concerns fell upon deaf ears I decided to let my opinion be known. I know I do not stand alone. In response, I was told that Midwest Sportsman is a business and that my services were no longer needed. As with any business, greed will eventually result in failure. I have no desire to be associated with such an organization. I turned in my scales without hesitation or regret.

On a better note, I would like to add that a great district in Central Ohio is run by Phil Carver if anyone is looking to continue fishing Midwest Sportsman. Phil was helpful in my first year of directing. I fished one of his opens this past year and he runs a first class tournament. I will definitely get down to Columbus to fish more opens in 2006. I recommend others to check out what Phil has to offer.

So much more to say, so little time.

I must say we are all spoiled in Ohio! The local trails here are some of the best run tournaments around.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Fish- welcome to our Site. Glad to have you here. I hope you will stay on as a regular poster. Sorry to hear about what happened but from MANY years of fishing tournaments and running some it seems there is always someone that make a decission that ruins everything we have worked for. I hope they get their heads out and in the right place. I wasn't there but from what I have heard it was a very poorly ran tournament, Why would anyone have two weigh in areas? That is pure stupidity if I have ever heard it. I know tournaments can be won or lost by ounces! If one of those scales were off from the other one the entire tournament should have been stopped. No way can two scales weigh exactly the same - never! What were they thinking. Also to allow someone to make a 13 mile run to weigh in then go back to get their vehicle?? Man that is poor planning to the "T" Lets just hope they run it totally differently this year, maybe someone in that group that runs it will wakeup and realize they messed up. Good luck to all that make it next year. Maybe Ohio can win it all again.


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## Fish4Fun (Apr 6, 2004)

From the midwest site the proposed plan for 2006 classic:

PROPOSED NEW FORMAT FOR 2006
MIDWEST SPORTSMAN NATIONAL CLASSIC 



In 2006 Midwest Sportsman will host a (3-day) classic -- this is necessary because of the number of teams that were expecting to qualify for the 2006 National Classic.

The only other option is to cut the percentage of teams advancing to the classic, and from what we hear from the fishermen, they want the chance to go to the classic and maybe get eliminated there, or possibly advance to a final top 100.


2006 CLASSIC FORMAT

We will use multiple launch and weigh-in sites for the first two days of the classic tournament. All scales will be certified before these tournaments. The teams will fish on days 1 and 2 (Wednesday, October 4 and Thursday, October 5). The field will be broken up into 100-150 teams per launch site (final figures will depend on actual qualifiers for the 2006 classic.

The top 100 teams from all the weigh-in sites (total weight for the two days) will advance to day 3 (October 6, 2006) for the finals. All the teams on day 3 will start with zero (0) weight for the final day.

With an increase of the Classic entry fee from $120.00 to $150.00 per team, (this is only $15.00 per man), this will provide enough extra money so that all 100 teams in the Top 100 will get paid.

New pay-back schedules will be on the web site showing how much each team will receive (1 through 100), based on a field of 400 plus teams.


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## Fish4Fun (Apr 6, 2004)

We will do our best to make a great local tournament series next year in the Midwest Mid Buckeye Circuit. Which will be ran professionally. As is Phil's divisions in the columbus area.


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## hogwild (Dec 5, 2005)

Lets Do the Math????


MWS 2005
1200 Competing Teams. 30 percent of these teams go to the 2005 Classic.

1200 x .30= 360 Teams to the 2005 Classic.

1200 teams x $120.00 per team (membership fees 2005) = $144,000.00 

360 teams (classic qualifiers) x $120.00 ( additional 2005 classic qualifying fee) = $43,200

$187,200.00 receivables!

This is what Midwest had to operate with last year (2005). 


First place paid $46,000. You can bet this was discounted to MWS in the form of sponsorship advertising. Bass Pro Shops / Nitro Tracker Boats. My guess is this cost MWS around $35,000 (deeply discounted boats). Lets assume it was not discounted and assume MWS paid $46,000 for the 2 boats.

Second place paid $10,000

Third place paid $5,000

Lets assume the remaining 33 places paid $1000.00 each. Obviously, some of the places paying more ,but more of the remaining places are paying less than $1000.00 per place. $33,000 was paid out to the remaining 33 teams. 36 Teams were the top 10 percent of the field.


Go ahead and finish this up for me guys?

Sponsoring hotels helped pay for the food, along with the Marshall County Tourism Board.

Alright, so you say the food was paid for by MWS. Lets factor in another $20,000 for food. That would be overkill but do it anyway.

Trophys / Id Cards/ scales/ etc. Lets allow another $20,000 for these. Remember some of these can be used year to year/ such as the scales and should not be fully written off over the course of a year. This is overkill as well but go ahead, add it in.


Total Expense $134,000 

There is still quite a bit of money ($53,200) not accounted for unless someone can shed some light, I think someone is making a very good living at owning / running this circuit.

Another Hot TopicPROs??????????

2004-2005 Classic Links


http://www.midwestsportsmanin.com/class04.htm
http://www.midwestsportsmanin.com/class05.htm

2004-2005 MWS RULES

1.	Qualifying: Tournaments are open to anyone over 18 years of age. If, you are under 18 years of age, you must be accompanied in the boat by someone who is over 18 years of age. This tournament circuit is designed for the amateur tournament fisherman - If you fish the Pro Side of BASS, FLW or are a Professional Guide you cannot compete in the Midwest Sportsman Tournament Fishing Circuits.

2006 MIDWEST SPORTSMAN RULES 
1. Participation: Tournaments are open to anyone over 18 years of age. If under 18 years of age you must be accompanied in the boat by someone over 18 years old. Individuals who have fished in a tournament in the last 24 months that required an entry fee of $1000.00 or more are not eligible to fish in any Midwest Sportsman Tournament. If you are a professional guide on the waters that Midwest Sportsman holds its local tournaments on, you are not eligible to fish our circuits on that particular water.


Compare the Rules- The MWS circuit is no longer designed for the amateur fisherman!

Apparently it didnt matter in the past either, because it doesnt look like the rules were enforced. 

2004 Classic *13th* Place

-http://www.midwestsportsmanin.com/class04.htm
2005 Classic *1st * Place

-http://www.midwestsportsmanin.com/class05.htm


Is this the same PRO Angler competing in the Amateur MWS Circuit?

http://proxy.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/media/angler?anglerId=12401&type=7

When MWS officials were questioned? They answered you couldnt have fished the pro ranks in the last 2 years. Applying to the 2004-2005 year. 


If you look at the website, you will see that this anglers last BASS PRO tournament was Sept. 14th, 2002. MWS refuses to answer whether or not this is the same guy. Someone here should surely know?

This is not about who won the classic or placed in the classic. This is about enforcement of rules.

This means he could not have fished any qualifying MWS circuit or event until Sept. 14, 2004, if there was a 2 year rule in place. 

The 2004 Classic was the first week of October, 2004. Do the Homework! That was a 3week time frame in which he had to fish all events and qualify for the 2004 Classic. None of the circuits were completed or had all of their events in 3week time frame. This would have been impossible. But yet he was still able to compete in 2004 MWS circuits and the 2004 classic, because He was fishing MWS events before he had been out of the PRO ranks for 2 years. It was either overlooked or it wasnt caught.

Everyone who fished the 2004 Classic who placed between 13th and 30th place should have moved up a position if this was the same angler who fished the PRO ranks. These teams may have been short changed on Pay Day! This Team/Angler should have not been allowed to compete this year if there was a 2 year Rule in Place Regarding PRO Anglers.

This circuit was created for amateur/weekend anglers. Take a look at where we are, now that the payout has risen to the level it has.

The Pros / EX-PRO's / Everstart guys, are moving in for the money and MWS is going to allow them to do so. MWS owners are making a killing as well. 

Rules are being changed/ possibly not being enforced.

Good Luck to Everyone!

I am finished!


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## fishin4five (Dec 2, 2005)

Nice hogwild.

A few additional comments:

2 Nitro NX882's do not cost $50,000 as claimed by Midwest. $46,000 is still inflated. I bought a new NX882 with a 150 merc for around $18,500, $21,300 out the door with everthing - tax, title, safety equip, cover, ect. Nitro boats are discounted significantly to everyone in the fall. I would imagine sponsorship relations would result in a larger discount. 

2nd and 3rd place were paided by the local tourism board. Correct me if I'm wrong. That is $15,000 on top of it all.

Midwest stated 408 +/- a couple teams qualified for the classic. That means a total of approximately 1,360 paid teams fished the trail in 2005. Slightly more than 1,200. Each member of those teams paid $60. That would equal about $163,200. Granted some guys fish alone, but that number should still be a good estimate.

However, the money isn't my main concern. To list a few of the many...The amount of dead fish was disgusting! No official time was ever clearly announced if at all. On day two I asked the guys checking boats in the morning and received 2 different times. Weigh in baskets were knocked off the scale and never re-tared. Comments such as - cut us a break we put this together last minute were rather irritating. The men and women fishing the tournament spent thousands of dollars to fish for the week. Give them something to be proud to be a part of...

I apologize. I'm not one to complain but I had to put in my last two cents.

I'm done.

Lets go fish.


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## RANGER 422 (Jul 6, 2005)

hogwild;

If what you say is true about the Pro that fished the classic and BASS, shouldnt second place have a concern about this? I think everything you say looks good and it took you some time to gather all this info but does Midwest know about this Pro fishing?? They might end up spending the rest of the money for a couple more boats. Good job on the research!!


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## hogwild (Dec 5, 2005)

Why do you think there is a rule change taking place for 2006? Of course they know about it.

Rule #1 for the year 2004-2005 is real loose. How do you interpret it? When MWS was asked, they stated to another source who will remain nameless, that if a PRO hadnt fished in the last 2 years in a PRO event, he was allowed to fish MWS events for the 2004-2005 years. If you read the 04-05 Rules it doesnt mention anything about this 2 year clause. If just states if you fish as pro. There are no lengths of time mentioned. I was specifically stating that even if there was a 2 year rule, the 2004 Classic payouts were flawed from 13th place to the last place paying money, which I believe was around 33rd place. If there wasnt a 2 year rule, both the 04 and 05 Classic payouts would be flawed. And yes, the 05 Classic would be "Super Flawed", from 1st place all the way down to the last place paying money.

Was this the same Guy? This is the first question, that must be answered.

Why the rule changes all of the sudden?

I think we all are thinking the same thing. Why cant or wont MWS answer?

Where did the MWS national website go? There was a forum on there that people were posting comments on from all of the states participating in the classic. Those guys were really blasting MWS. Shortly after a guy from KY or TN questioned what was previously mentioned about a pro fishing in the Classic, the open forum just disappeared. This was the only forum that brought everyone together, from all of the states.

Do the math and put 2 and 2 together boys! 

If you are wondering who is in question? Read the previous article and follow the links. If he indeed was the same guy (PRO). Depending on interpretation of the rules there could be some huge problems. 

The 04-05 Rules state the tournament circuit is designed for the amateur angler.


Your call????


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## shysterorange (Apr 14, 2004)

Or does it?

I saw the forum before it was taken down. I also know that at least 2 of the people on this forum and thread were also imputting and saw what was going on with the MWS forum. They had posted to the MWS forum during the chaos. Without answers, you have doubt... Good questions HogWild. They deserve good answers.


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## hogwild (Dec 5, 2005)

At least 3 directors on this thread and 1 state director starting this thread and they have nothing to say about my previous post, in over 2 days.

Over 70 hits on this thread in 2 days and not a reply from a MWS rep.


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## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

First off , do you even fish the circuit ? If so , what about everything realy upsets you personaly ? Ask yourself if you are realy that unhappy with Midwest Sportsman . Then make a decision to find somewhere else to go if you are THAT unhappy ! Its that easy . Every circuit out there has its good and bad points . If the guys who won the classic were actually classified as pro's , dont you think the other circuits they fish here in Ohio would have people like yourself wineing also and there would be something done about it ? RANGER 422 , I have followed most of your posts and it looks to me as if you have alot of negetive comments to say about tournaments & tournament fishermen in general . I wish you the best of luck next time you hit the water , but this is no place for you to be heard . Hogwild , if you want to ask some questions and need some answers feel free to call someone who can help you out (614)348-2410 .


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## RANGER 422 (Jul 6, 2005)

Sounds like a RAY SCOTT want to be to me!!! Where does somebody get off by saying this is no place for someone to be heard?? This is an open conversation to anybody, If you dont want to hear, dont read it, thats a no brainer!!! Hogwild is 100 percent correct in what he is trying to say, like he said do the math!!! Just for the record, I did fish, and did go to the classic, and you think I dont have the right to voice my thoughts here!! Well, it looks to me as if something might be posted that you dont want to hear. IF SO ITS SIMPLE!! DONT READ IT!!!


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## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

Sounds Like a *Paul Tormanen wanna be to me !*

Bud 

If you were part of Midwest Sportsman this year and went to the classic , why would you post this post back in August ?

Can anybody help me? I am not a tournament fisherman but my brother is coming here from Michigan and wants to bass fish on Mosquito. I dont expect anybody to tell me what to use but could use a little help on if I should take him to the bank or fish off shore in deeper water. I can return the favor by helping you on Milton, we have some good smallmouth spots and was there Sat. We had three over 3 pounds and alot of 2's. I just dont know Mosquito at all and thats where he wants to go, Thanks, Bud

Sounds to me like you need to figure out which side of the fence you are on .  And by the way , which division did you fish ? Oh , I see where , nevermind .


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

I'll have to break my self-imposed OGF code of silence on this one.I concur with you Phil 100% on this issue.Ranger does have the right to voice his opinion,but this post obviously isn't the spot,if he's that negative about tournaments,and tournament fishermen-duh,don't fish them,or hang with those of us who do! Talk about a simple cure? I believe that Midwest is an exceptionally run organization,especially locally in Ohio.There have been a few bumps here and there,but nothing is going to be perfect to everyone.If somebody has fished in one of the circuits,and fished the classic,then maybe they have a right to complain about whatever,but if you're a Skeeter' bank fisherman,keep your comments to yourself dude!


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Fellows, lets keep this simple and not start a war here. I can see both area being discussed here and see both sides. I have been on both side of this story. I have fish many years in tournaments and have ran lots and lots of tournaments. No matter what you do or how you do it there is going to be problems and complaints. If indeed you don't fish this circuit then I see no reason for you to put it down. If you are not a members then how can you say something bad about a circuit that you have never fished? By taking someone elses complaint? We all know the old saying, "Don't believe what you hear, and half what you see!" that's what is going on here. I stopped tournament fishing and running tournaments for the most part because of these type of things. Get involved if you don't like the way things are going. Don't just sit back and bitch about it. The only way to change things is to become part of the problem.

Again keep it calm here guys. Discuss it don't argue and fight about it. That's how most threads get closed. This started out good so lets keep it good.


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## hogwild (Dec 5, 2005)

Phil,
We know each other. I have been to the classic the last 2 years.

But neither you or the state director or the owner of MWS has answered the question. Is this the same Gary Hill?

Other circuits such as Salmoids dont state anything about PROs. So when you decide to fish the tournament you are going into the tournament circuit with the understanding of whom you will be competing with.

Other tournaments arent the issue here!

Why is it so hard to get a answer to a question? You are just trying to distract everyone with meaningless BS?

Just answer the question, Was this the same Gary Hill?

Answer it on the public board, so everyone can hear it. 

MWS made a mistake and their dang polygraph test that was administered didnt even ask the questions to catch it. Everyone of the questions on the polygraph test should have been derived from each and every rule of the circuit. That is standard "Did you break any of the rules"?

I am trying to make a point on a public board.

MWS organization should be a stand up organization and admit fault if they indeed made a mistake. Which it appears they did. Dont think for a minute that the people including myself on this forum are the only ones upset. If the national board were still up and running with its open forum, everyone on hear would realize there were major problems with the ethics/integrity of this organization. They shut it down to silence the situation in my opinion.

Phil, you are a traitor. 

You should be a stand up person and find the answer out to this question and then post it on a public board. You said you were upset with the way things were run at the classic. If you came in second at the classic and found out the guys that beat you had broken the rules. Wouldnt you be upset? Of course I guess and extra $40,000 grand would be pocket change to you. Dont criticize your fellow competitors when they are asking questions. This is the internet, you dont own it, and this is a public forum.

Where is the guy who started this thread? MWS state director?

State director, why are you shying away from this thread that you started? You should be a stand up person as well. 

How can you guys do this? Run tournaments for an organization when you yourselves are being hushed by the owners? Where is your integrity? 

Is it that important for you guys to get a free ride to the classic?

My pride, integrity/ethics would get in my way. 

The question needs an answer in public not over the phone where you can try to hush me with your BS.

Be a stand up guy or organization and answer the question!


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## Wayne Paterson (Jul 10, 2005)

This is an interesting subject. I was at the Classic from the NE division and now we have no division because our director tried to standup for his members. Maybe this is why other Directors wont stick out there neck just to get it cut off. Hogwild, your question should indeed be addressed, by Midwest, Directors or members that know the answer. I can respect your concern and would like to see the truth of this matter come out myself. Not that it would change anything on my part as we didnt place in the money, but for the members that did. We had at least one team place and they should also know what is going on. I dont know Phil, but it may be that he dont know the answer, if he does, I agree with you that he should post it, If he has to turn in his scales like our director did then he should do it with pride knowing he did stand behind his members. Trust in your tournament director is very important and if they fail at that the only members they will have are friends and thats not good for numbers in a circuit. Good luck to you all and Nipp, Pray for me at FLW, my first is an Fl. on the 18th of Jan


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> This is the internet, you dont own it, and this is a public forum.


 though that statement is true,this forum is not a place for name calling and/or demand other members to address an issue that is better resolved elsewhere.phil offered to discuss matters in that manner,which you only replied to with more accusations toward him.
i suggest you take things up through other channels.
if the discussion had remained civil,my actions wouldn't be necessary,but since you chose to turn it in a different direction,this thread is closed as of now.


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## Fish4Fun (Apr 6, 2004)

Lets please keep this civil. I know Phil well and he is far from a traitor. There are alot of information going on and being posted in this thread and most of the people being called out probably don't have the answers. I understand how some people are upset but i think your looking for the answers in the wrong place. I did see the post on the midwest site before it came down and if people have serious questions and concerns then they should contact midwest.

There have been many tournament series over the years and many issues with them. Don't tell me that someones not getting rich off the BASS and all the federations in all the states and all the money these anglers spend trying to get to the big times.


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