# drilling waste dumped into mahoning river



## crappieslayer77 (Feb 20, 2012)

Was watching the news and heard this and it really makes me mad because i love fishing the mahoning river. Does this mean that keeping the fish below the spot where waste was dumped will be not be eat able? just curious to hear some other peoples thoughts on this that also fish the mahoning river.


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## t.stuller (Feb 25, 2010)

I havent heard anything about it being dumped into the river. The site where they inject the waste (brine) is around Youngstown, but they inject it miles down into the earth. Plus, their under the eye glass after the earthquakes we've had in this area the past few years.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

I didn't hear the news either. Where was this supposed to have happened? My buddy works for a gas well service company and his experience has been that the well drillers themselves are hyper conscientious about following the law and doing things right. If whoever did this gets caught, they are so screwed!


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## eyes_on (Jun 14, 2007)

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/02/06/dumped-drilling-waste-hits-river.html

http://businessjournaldaily.com/drilling-down/dls-lupo-owns-company-dumped-drilling-waste-2013-2-6


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## t.stuller (Feb 25, 2010)

I dont get how the company has over 120 violations between PA and Ohio and is still operating!. I've said I'm for fracking, but there would have to be serious regulation. Too many of these companies ruin areas to increase profits.


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## James F (Jul 2, 2005)

It"s all about"The Benjamen's". Money is very Powerful!


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

t.stuller said:


> I dont get how the company has over 120 violations between PA and Ohio and is still operating!. I've said I'm for fracking, but there would have to be serious regulation. Too many of these companies ruin areas to increase profits.


Yes. You'd think they'd have been shut down by now or somebody would have at least gone to jail! I'm also for fracking, and there are very serious regs in place. But regs are like speed limit signs on the highway. Unscrupulous people will thumb their noses at them. 

And it not like these companies aren't paid to dispose of drilling mud or brine properly. As I related in my prior reply, that's what my buddy does for a living and the companies running the drilling rigs pay through the nose for their services. He has the EPA looking over his shoulder constantly, and you better not spill a damn drop where it doesn't belong! If you are sloppy in your work the man in charge of the drill site can throw you off his rig, and if that happens, it's forever!

And a little note for the OP, crappieslayer. Whether drilling mud, brine, or whatever has been recently dumped in the Mahoning, there ain't no way I'd eat any kind of fish out of that river! The water has cleaned up tremendously, but the sediments on the bottom of the river are just loaded with crap! And yes, there's kind of a quiet, but very valid fishery available there now, but for me it's strictly catch and release!


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## crappieslayer77 (Feb 20, 2012)

im not sure how d&l hasnt been shut down either, im hoping they charge these guys for what they did and not just get a slap on the wrist. As for the damage to the river ill guess ill have to wait and see how the fishing is effected. looks like i wont be keeping anything out of it this year


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

Instead of giving the Amish guy life in prison for leading a bunch of beard snippers they should lock this guy up for life. This is a lot more serious than beard snipping !


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

t.stuller said:


> I havent heard anything about it being dumped into the river. The site where they inject the waste (brine) is around Youngstown, but they inject it miles down into the earth. Plus, their under the eye glass after the earthquakes we've had in this area the past few years.


Stupidity or Greed, it doesn't matter. Ohio is a dumping ground for mysterious chemical soup. I surely wouldn't eat the fish in the Mahoning. I'm glad I don't live around there. Imagine the impact on property values in the surrounding neighborhood

According to the Youngstown Vindicator:

Stoking the outrage were documents released late Tuesday by the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency that show Ben W. Lupo, a partner in several companies headquartered at the site, and owner of both D&L Energy and Hard Rock, instructed an employee to dump the wastewater down the drain, which eventually emptied into the Mahoning River.
Youngstown Fire Chief John J. ONeill Jr. said he spoke Wednesday with Kurt Kollar, the on-scene coordinator for OEPAs Division of Emergency and Remedial Response, who told him 40,000 to 50,000 gallons were dumped into a storm sewer that empties into the Mahoning River.

2761 Salt Springs Road is where the dumping incident occurred. --Tim


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

rapman said:


> there's really no neighborhoods close by, but ohio has accepted brine from other states who won't allow dumping. the earthquakes we experienced here last year were from out of state brines being dumped down these injection wells. the mills and factories from warren to youngstown and struthers polluted this river for years but it was ignorance of the enviromental impact (long term) and the fact that we needed the jobs here. for this to happen today is unacceptable. not only does the mahoning now support a fishery, but wildlife and waterfowl are quite prevalent.
> 
> btw, i would not eat anything out of this river unless it was from the stretch between milton and newton falls.


X2! That's the cleanest part of the river. Once it gets to Warren the sediments on the bottom are full of industrial gunk! 

I can remember how hopeful I felt when, years ago, guys started talking about catching Muskie out of the Mahoning near Leavittsburg! Then, I heard a tale about a 6 or 7 pound Walleye being caught from there within the city limits of Youngstown. There was a local radio show that, one day, featured 2 guys who had taken a canoe trip down the Mahoning from Niles through Youngstown, and about all the aquatic life, waterfowl, and other wildlife they saw on the trip including a nesting pair of Bald Eagles! Of course, they had to portage around all the low head dams, which in my opinion should be removed as it might help the river clean up quicker, and they said that every time they touched the riverbed tons of black gunk would billow up.

Talked to my buddy who works in gas well services last night and he is pissed off! He has to be so careful on his job only to have a bonehead like this Lupo character give everybody a black eye! I hope they skin this guy alive and tack his hide to the barn door!


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Offer to not fine him IF he willingly DRINKS a gallon of his own "witch`s brew"...otherwise increase the fine by a factor of 10 expodentually (1x1=1, 2x2=4, 4x4=16, ect), this was NO "accident". And fine the guy who actually dumped it...job or not, he KNEW what he was doing was illegal...


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

rapman said:


> there's really no neighborhoods close by, but ohio has accepted brine from other states who won't allow dumping. the earthquakes we experienced here last year were from out of state brines being dumped down these injection wells. the mills and factories from warren to youngstown and struthers polluted this river for years but it was ignorance of the enviromental impact (long term) and the fact that we needed the jobs here. for this to happen today is unacceptable. not only does the mahoning now support a fishery, but wildlife and waterfowl are quite prevalent.
> 
> btw, i would not eat anything out of this river unless it was from the stretch between milton and newton falls.


You mean these residential streets are not close by? Take a look yourself. Google 2761 Salt Springs Road (The Frack Chemical Dumpsite). Go to Satelite image. There are hundreds of streets within a half mile.--Tim


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## Doboy (Oct 13, 2008)

*YEP, I AGREE,,,, 
STRAP HIS DONKEEY TO 'THE CHAIR', AND FLIP THE SWITCH!!*

I wanna know?,,, What's the difference between the salt brine used in fracking and the MILLIONS of gallons of salt brine used on our roads,,, specially after you add all the oil, grease & gas that's dropping off our vehicles onto our highways?

My guess,,,,, by the time that dumped brine makes it to the Lowellville Bridge, it'll be down to 1 part per BILLION.

NOW, if you want something scary to think about,,,, ask me how many TRUCK-LOADS of 55 gal drums, FULL of oil, Paint thinner, creosote AND PCB TRANSFORMER OIL, were buried underground, where every mill stood.
Yes, every river in the USA needs FLUSHED, but I still wouldn't worry about eating the M River fish,,, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE GULF! (99% of that "Black stuff" that the canoe paddle kicked up is decaying plant-life)

I worry more about the air that we breath,,, on a hot summer day, in rush-hour traffic! I'd worry more about eating and drinking out of PLASTIC & STYROFOAM containers! 
OR sitting next to someone smoking a cigarette!


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

I need to ask a question if I can. I'm not very educated on fracking but I get the general idea. Here's my question. If some ststes don't allow companies to dump the brine in their states, why the hell is Ohio?

Mr. A

(2013)
SMB: 0 LMB: 0 
Catfish: 0 Bluegill: 0 
Other: 0


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

Ohio doesn't allow it to be dumped...PA used to allow WWTPs to treat it and discharge to surface waters. But has learned the hard way that it isnt a good practice.

Ohio allows disposal by deep well injection. Been done this way for years and drilling waste is nothing compaired to some other nasties disposed of by deep well injection. What this dirt piece of human trash did needs to end in jail time and shutting down any and all companies he has a stake in.
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## t.stuller (Feb 25, 2010)

Lowell H Turner said:


> Offer to not fine him IF he willingly DRINKS a gallon of his own "witch`s brew"...otherwise increase the fine by a factor of 10 expodentually (1x1=1, 2x2=4, 4x4=16, ect), this was NO "accident". And fine the guy who actually dumped it...*job or not, he KNEW what he was doing was illegal*...


Yes he did and should be responsible!


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

rapman said:


> boss, pa was sending their brine to patriot waste water treatment in warren, ohio to be treated and then dumped into the mahoning river. they were shut down awhile back but were trying to get back in business as of late.


Do you have a link or article documenting this disposal via wwtp in Ohio? I know patriot was working with warren trying to get approval but am not aware that they treated and discharged in ohio? I believe they actually have OEPA approval but not ODNR. ODNR does not presently allow disposal in any way other than SWD injection wells.


Oh, and Mr. A, PA doesn't have enough injection wells to handel the quantity of waste made from their wells. Their geology is different. Generaly not as suitable for them. Also federal EPA is involved with the disposal well permitting there =longer more expensive permitting process than Ohio. And with the way Ohio is set up, we cant ban or severely limit import of waste from out of state.
Politics....

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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks rapman. Learn everyday. Seems like a decent company, but fact is they are presently not approved by ODNR, who regulates drilling waste in Ohio. 

This dirt bag was flat out flagrantly violating the law and deserves to be made into an example. No room for people like him in the O&G industry. I hope they send a very strong message with this case.

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## McMish (Mar 23, 2009)

Lets hope this will help push through the fracking tax, which is tedering on the line right now. 
that money can help go for cleaning up this mess and the all the crap this drilling will pollute our rivers.
That or stricter oversight over these companies. 

My uncle is a dispatcher for a NG pickup company and he sees violations ever day that eventually make there way into our rivers/drinking wells. 

but they have the money so we just have to clean the water... *with our livers.*


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## James F (Jul 2, 2005)

Ohio has been a dumping ground for all manner of waste material for as long as I can remember.This is more than big money at work here! Most steel mills have dumped hazardous waste on their property until they ran out of room,and started outsourcing to landfills and any place that would accept their waste products. At Republic Steel all that the EPA required was a clay cap just like most land fills.This doesn't take into consideration all the run off from the piles of muck and leaking barrels.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

Doboy said:


> I wanna know?,,, What's the difference between the salt brine used in fracking and the MILLIONS of gallons of salt brine used on our roads,,,


For one thing, beside sand and chemicals, it's radioactive! 

"Radium in one sample of Marcellus shale wastewater, also called brine, that Pennsylvania officials collected in 2009 was 3,609 times more radioactive than a federal safety limit for drinking water. It was 300 times higher than a Nuclear Regulatory Commission limit for industrial discharges to water.
The December 2011 study, compiled by the U.S. Geological Survey, also found that the median levels of radium in brine from Marcellus shale wells was more than three times higher than brine collected from conventional oil and gas wells.
The Marcellus shale absorbs uranium from ancient saltwater trapped within the rock layer. The decaying uranium then leaks radium into the water.

In May, the health department told American Landfill in Stark County that two truckloads of waste sand from two Greene County, Pa., wells must instead go to a hazardous-waste landfill.

Required lab tests showed radium at levels 36 times higher than the states safety standard.Some critics say they worry that Ohio municipalities will spray shale brine on roadways in winter to combat ice. There are no restrictions against using shale-well brine on Ohio roadways." 

-The Columbus Dispatch-

Get your hazardous waste suits while supplies last!--Tim


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

Xxxzz.xxxxxx.xxxxx


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

Wow said:


> For one thing, beside sand and chemicals, it's radioactive!
> 
> There are no restrictions against using shale-well brine on Ohio roadways."
> 
> ...


False statement...check the regs, its illegal to apply brine from a horizontal well to roadways in Ohio..... of course its also illegal to do what this company did.

In response to the radioactivity: granite countertops, the gravel in my driveway, and the glacial till soil in N.E. Ohio, soil growing organic produce, are all radioactive....rent a geiger counter and see for yourself. 

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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

boss302 said:


> False statement...check the regs, its illegal to apply brine from a horizontal well to roadways in Ohio..... of course its also illegal to do what this company did.
> 
> In response to the radioactivity: granite countertops, the gravel in my driveway, and the glacial till soil in N.E. Ohio, soil growing organic produce, are all radioactive....rent a geiger counter and see for yourself.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


False statement...Actually brine use is NOT illegal if it's been treated. The treated brine as well as flowback from wells winds up in our waterways and becomes a problem converting it into drinking water. I don't know if any municipalities are using it. I hope they never do. 
The radioactivity in your gravel or countertops are not 20 times higher than the industrial standard and 242 times higher than the drinking-water standard .--Tim

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/09/03/gas-well-waste-full-of-radium.html

"Somewhere between 20% and 40% of the water used for hydro-fracing a gas well returns to the surface as flowback, and later as produced water. In addition to the frac fluids added by the gas drilling companies, this water picks up other contaminants from deep in the Earth (~ 7,000 feet deep) with one of the most notable ingredients being salt." 
These fluids contain sodium and calcium salts, barium, oil, strontium, iron, numerous heavy metals, soap, radiation and other components. This fluid combination becomes brine wastewater, and tanker trucks hauling it are labeled with a RESIDUAL WASTE placard. Treated brine is also sold for deicing and other applications that utilize calcium chloride, often being applied to roadways."

The saltiness of this wastewater creates high levels of TDS (total dissoved solids). Incomplete processing of this brine wastewater, especially when dumped into rivers used for drinking water, creates a high TDS situation that causes drinking water treatment plants problems, like Trihalomethanes. High TDS water reacts with chlorine when it is processed creating these TTHM's.* -marcellus-shale.us-*


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

Heard a little blurb about further developments. Operating permits for both outfits, Hard Rock and D&L, either suspended or revoked. The EPA is still at the site trying to clean things up. Ben Lupo appeared in the Federal Court House, I think maybe for a bail hearing, but the radio also mentioned that he is being charged with violations of the Clean Water Act, so he's facing Federal charges. He also appeared in handcuffs, which means he's been living in the Greybar Hotel since the deal went down.


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## gdhuber (Dec 6, 2009)

This whole fracking thing needs to be stopped. It is doing nothing but harming our environment...


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