# A question of ethics



## senger (May 24, 2013)

What would you do in the following situations? Your fishing one of our local streams like the whitewater or lil Miami.

The guy your fishing with catches a gar, throws it on the bank then walks out of sight downstream. Do you let it die?

Your thinking of having a fish fry. You go out to catch some channel cats and catch a thirty pound shovelhead. Do you keep it?

Your at a local lake, someplace small like CLP or Sharon Woods. There's a five pound bass on the bed. Do you try and catch it?


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

senger said:


> What would you do in the following situations? Your fishing one of our local streams like the whitewater or lil Miami.
> 
> The guy your fishing with catches a gar, throws it on the bank then walks out of sight downstream. Do you let it die?
> 
> ...


No, no, no!
I don't kill any fish on purpose, except to eat it...and I only eat fish with easily sustainable populations or stocked fish!
Trophy fish or rare fish are released quickly, to hopefully die of old age...not at my hands!
I NEVER fish for Bass in lakes or rivers/streams until after they are off the beds.


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## BigFoot158 (Jan 14, 2012)

Yes, no, no.

There more enough gar out their and they are trash fish.


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## db1534 (Mar 18, 2010)

Gar are great to eat...fyi

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## db1534 (Mar 18, 2010)

And no no no

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## db1534 (Mar 18, 2010)

Thats great Big Foot just because you think Gar is a trash fish. You support the unsportsmanlike like concept and just toss and kill the fish because you don't like it. You should prob quit trolling the forums and learn some respect for the outdoors

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## strongto (Apr 1, 2013)

1. Absolutely not. All fish are living creatures and should be treated with respect. All native fish hold a place in the ecosystem. Even if it was an invasive fish I still wouldn't leave it on the bank. I would kill it in the quickest way possible.

2. I would not keep a catfish over 5 pounds, not that I keep very many fish anyways, maybe 1 or 2 a year but the smaller ones tend to taste better and if I put the big ones back I can possibly catch them again or allow someone else to catch them later on down the road. I really like releasing all fish but especially the big ones.

3. I don't really have an opinion on this. I have targeted bedding bass in the past but it is not usually something I do. If I do happen to catch a bedding bass I try to release him right back in the same spot with as little harm done as possible but I pretty much do that with all fish I catch not just bedding ones.


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

People who kill (with no intention of eating) gar drive me crazy. I think it's a mark of stupidity or maybe ignorance at best. I have heard people talk about killing gar because they eat sportfish. Gar have been in our area since the last ice age, I don't think they are going to suddenly kill everything off. Also, gar are one of the most well adapted species of fish in our area. There are millions of them. Throwing one on the bank would be the equivalent of putting out a forest fire with a Dixie cup. 

I wouldn't keep the cat or try for the bass. When I was a young kid, I probably would have gone for the bass. 


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## cali2ohio (Nov 27, 2010)

Oh I would definitely try to catch the bass....try is the key word cause I would fail to the tenth power on succeeding to catch a bass of that size...lol


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## gulfvet (Apr 14, 2004)

Yes, No, Yes 

I hate gar. They ruin the night fishing for bass wherever they are, not to mention the fact that they eat lots of actual gamefish. Big catfish are not worth eating. They taste muddy and the meat is tough. Better they should be left in the water to make more eating-sized cats. The bass I would catch if could do it quickly and return it safely.


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## db1534 (Mar 18, 2010)

I caught a largemouth at CJ yesterday with a crappie in its gullet. So I can toss that bass right? I mean he did eat a gamefish. 

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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

senger said:


> What would you do in the following situations? Your fishing one of our local streams like the whitewater or lil Miami.
> 
> *The guy your fishing with catches a gar, throws it on the bank then walks out of sight downstream.* Do you let it die?
> 
> ...


I release the Gar and I never fish with him again and He walks home if he road to the river with me. Every thing in nature serves a purpose including gar.
I turn the Shovel head loose and probably don't fish for the bass{I have} but that's just my choice now.


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

gulfvet said:


> not to mention the fact that they eat lots of actual gamefish.



Even big gar have a really small mouth. They might get some fingerlings, but once a fish is over a few inches they can't physically eat them. Also, gar are typically in huge schools, you think that one that suffers and dies is going to help your bass fishing? Gar drive me crazy too, but I'm not going to kill a fish just cause I'm angry. 


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## BaitWaster (Oct 25, 2013)

I put the gar back in the water with the hope he doesnt eat my finger. I would not eat a catfish that big. I heard big ones dont taste good. And I would not try fo the bass due to being new at fishing and I dont not know much about bass


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

BigFoot158 said:


> Yes, no, no.
> 
> There more enough gar out their and they are trash fish.


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## Randall (May 16, 2004)

I enjoy targeting gar when I'm Smallmouth fishin, they are kinda challenging to catch....but I sure don't toss it on the bank to die


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

I would kill the gar ... The way I see it there like rats... Worthless trash fish... Why don't people understand the concept behind our fishing license... We pay 19 dollars every year and pay ohio to create limits and regulations based on surveys. So when the allow people to take gar and carp and all trash fish by means of bow hunting. To me that means they are over populated and need to be thinned. Gar are disgusting I don't care what any one says there are too many better fish to eat with out picking through bones...I hate gar by the way if any one can't tell.... If you have fished at dale hollow in the fall and seen how thick they are it's horrible you might as well just leave when you see them.... And the ohio streams will be just like that in a few years unless every one sticks together and kills them all. I mean just bust its head with a rock and feed the raccoons.


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## gulfvet (Apr 14, 2004)

db, Do everyone else a favor! If you like to eat gar, more power to you! Go catch all you want and eat them all! Then the rest of us won't have to be bothered by the bony, smelly things. Just don't expect me to put them back!


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

Wow. Do you guys understand these fish have been around forever? They are a native species that will never be exterminated. Also, their numbers aren't going to grow, they have a stable population. Again, not an invasive species. We are invading their native habitat, not the other way around. It just strikes me as an unusual way to release your aggression. 


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

No, no, and I try not to.

I love to fish for gar and I think people who kill them are pretty stupid. Sure I'd did it as a child because that's what I saw the people around me do. Then I became an adult and developed a functional mind and figured out how dumb it is. 

The state stocks a lot of channels every year and they are perfect for you to take home and eat. Every person has the right to eat big flathead but if everyone practiced that right then there would not be any left. Do you want to be that guy?

I try not to bother bass on a nest. It is tempting to take advantage of a pig right in front of your face but those are the genetics you want to pass on. 


Another one I dont like is releasing fish from a basket or stringer. Don't hold onto a fish if you are not going to eat it and don't toss a half dead one back after to get a bigger one.


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

rustyfish said:


> No, no, and I try not to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like your style. 



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## Ant (Mar 27, 2013)

As far as big cats go if you clean them right.Cut out the fatty discolored meat theyre good eating


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## jessejames556 (Aug 5, 2013)

All this talk about "trash fish" that need to be destroyed. I've been told that once upon a time Smallmouth were considered "trash fish". I'm glad they didnt destroy all of those.


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## db1534 (Mar 18, 2010)

gulfvet said:


> db, Do everyone else a favor! If you like to eat gar, more power to you! Go catch all you want and eat them all! Then the rest of us won't have to be bothered by the bony, smelly things. Just don't expect me to put them back!


OK I will! I'll keep a few for the table and throw the rest back. And you can do us all a favor by staying away from our rivers, lakes and streams until you can show some respect for the outdoors. Just because you don't like the fish, gives you no right to kill it for no reason. I'm sure I'm not the only one one here that thinks the same thing. I'm sure the DNR would love to see people tossing fish. I even bowfish and before I go out I have a plan on what I'm going to do with the carp and shad I shoot. I have a list of contacts who want them and put them to use. So it really pisses me off for someone to toss a fish and leave it to rot for no reason. I could do that with my 50+ carp I shoot an evening, but I have note respect for gods creatures than that.

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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

My goodness, I cant believe the mentality of some of the folks on here, , its simple, all species are all part of the whole elaborate master plan, each put in place to keep other species intact, its mother natures way of balancing out a eco system. LN Gar are a VERY important piece of that puzzle, removing them from the eco system will certainly hurt and unbalance the fishery to which may even cause something like all the bass to over spawn and possibly all stunt out to the point of never getting big enough to spawn, then what, now you've lost two apex predators, now the rough fish take over and so on and so on, once the ball is rolling, nothing to stop it. 

The above is just an example of what "could" happen. because in reality, LN gar seldom eat game fish because they typically are too quick for them, shad and smaller other fish are what they eat, they are not veracious attackers of prey like a pike but are slow moving and stealthy. 

last point, the LN gar have been around since the dinosaurs and if you think that in the next few years, they will eat all the bass, sadly wrong, if it hasn't happened in the last 100,000 years, unlikely it will happen in the next 5 years.

People just amaze me...nothing more to say.....
Rant over
Salmonid


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Ive never caught a gar, but wouldn't kill it just because.

Definitely wouldn't keep a big cat outta the rivers , at least around here anyway

As far as spawning bass go, I guess if I SAW one on a bed, I'd leave it be, but if the weather is as nice as today was today, I'm goin fishin, if I happen to catch a bass, I release em anyway, just like I do all year round.

Question: Does it really hurt bass to catch them when they're spawning? Even if released right back to the water? Hope I don't get slammed for this...but I didn't think it would " hurt" the cycle of reproduction, if it really does, then I will gladly change my ways...


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

I like when people think that paying 19 dollars allows them to do whatever they want, without consequences...these are the same people who think they are part time Wildlife Managers and that they know best about how Mother Nature should act ....they seem to forget that all the imbalances in Nature were caused by an idiot that thought he had all the answers...or is just concerned with "getting theirs" or having their 1 minute of feeling good about themselves.
Mother Nature is fully capable of regulating Herself...and she knows best!

I don't know of any lake or river in my area that has a overabundance of Bass...they actually need help just to have a stable population, due to ignorance of their populations and people taking out big fish from the gene pool...I read a report on bedding Bass, that showed almost an entire nest of fry can be wipe out by bluegills in less than 2 minutes, if a guarding male is removed.
Yes, Big Southern Bass lakes have a viable population and can sustain this kind of fishing...Most Northern lakes cannot handle the pressure...Fishermen HAVE TO get smarter to ensure we have stable populations of certain gamefish.

In some fishing circles, gar are considered gamefish for their fight.

Largemouth and Smallmouth are now considered invasive species and junk fish in certain countries...they were introduced into an unnatural habit and took over...like Snakeheads, Peacock Bass, Silver Carp, Wild Boar, gobies, snakes, etc, etc, on and on...
People continue to never learn and are living with the consequences.

Ask the cat guys who fish the Ohio, how bad the big fish population is...it has diminished due to the continue removal of big fish by the commercial and pay-lake industry.
Several lakes around here are also void of big fish, just because people think that 19 bucks and general guidelines, set by an under funded and under manned agency, allows them to take everything they catch!..being legal and being right, don't always go together..sometimes we must use our brains and do the right thing..I consider actions like this to fall into the lines of Mortal sins...lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride!
These are just a few of the many things that make me scratch my head...and makes me even more determined to be a good "steward" of Mother Nature!


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## fishing on credit (Mar 16, 2010)

No. No. No. Anyone who thinks they have the right to kill another animal due to not liking or hating are just clown shoes.


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

Ok so carp are invasive that's why there is no limit and you can bow hunt them all you want .... They were introduced in the 1800's and now there out of control .... You guys think Mother Nature can sustain itself... It can if people stop bringing fish that are not native... You guys saying you won't kill a fish is crazy ... Carp and asian carp are invasive fish they have no purpose in our river system.... Back to gar... Gar have to be getting overpopulated.... I don't know the numbers or any thing but I've never seen so many in my life. When I went to dale hallow 8 to 10 years ago I never saw one gar ... Now when we go there are hundreds just in every cove it seams like.... As well as the streams in ohio there every where.... So since ohio does not have a limit on how many you can take in a day why not get rid of every one you can... I suggest that every one on this site throw every gar asian carp and carp up on the bank unless you want to eat it or have something better to do with it


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

Fishing on credit.... So do you think bowhunting is clown shoes? Because the trash cans filled with carp every one brings back I know for sure no one is eating


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## db1534 (Mar 18, 2010)

Zack I think you mean Bowfishing....

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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

Yes I meant bow fishing


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## Core_d (Apr 7, 2014)

If i had it my way a flathead over 30" would be illegal to keep.

Now i have killed many many gar. Would I like to see them gone? No. Would I like to see them thinned out? Yes. As a sport fish they have no value, no fight, no good to eat and are very hard to hook. As a result of this they have an big advantage over the more desired fish. So I do my small part to even the playing field, call me a bad guy if you like. 

As Johnny Cash once sung " your right for your way and im right for mine were both just one to many mornings and a thousand miles behind."


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

Core d I could not agree more thanks for having my back... I don't think the gar need to be wiped out just thinned to maybe a number where the DNR had to put a limit on them


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

This is a perfect example ....the creek that flows through Miami white water forest used to be a awesome place to wade and fish.... There was a stretch of 3 years in a row that I caught a smallmouth over 5 pounds out of there... Now most people would never put info like that on this web site but I don't care because the creek is filled with huge gar and the small mouth are not the size they used to be.


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## db1534 (Mar 18, 2010)

Yep because the gar ate them all...

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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

This is a pretty depressing thread&#8230;


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

The longnose gar, Lepisosteus osseus, is a primitive ray-finned fish of the gar family. It is also known as the needlenose gar. L. osseus is found along the east coast of North and Central America in freshwater lakes and as far west as Kansas and Texas and southern New Mexico. The gar have been present in North America for about 100 million years.

Although they have been around for 100 million years, I feel like gar are finally making their move towards world domination. Any day now...


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## Just Fishin' (Nov 27, 2012)

GarrettMyers said:


> Although they have been around for 100 million years, I feel like gar are finally making their move towards world domination. Any day now...


Perhaps a new Scifi channel movie "Planet of the Gars"?? "Garnado"??


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## Flannel_Carp (Apr 7, 2014)

All three fish go on a stringer for two hours so I can take a picture, then back in the water they go.

No
Nope
I probably would have until reading Brent's post.


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## BoilerFly (Sep 17, 2013)

1.) Yes and No... As for Gar in Cincinnati and Ohio other river systems, they deserve to live and be a part of the river just like any other fish. There is a place for them as they can control other fish populations. However, in another argument, I have left pickerel and gar on the bank to be eaten by eagles and black bears in Northern Pennsylvania to clean up some wild and stocked small trout streams. They have a tendency to over eat small fry.

2.) No. CPR

3.) No.


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## Just Fishin' (Nov 27, 2012)

Flannel_Carp said:


> No
> Nope
> I probably would have until reading Brent's post.



Same here. I have no problem with killing fish, as long as for good use (i.e. eating them).

Brent, do you have a link to what you read about bedding bass?


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## Nubes (Dec 3, 2012)

Nature has a way of balancing out their populations. Anyone who thinks throwing gar out of the water to kill them is going to make the waterway a better place is ignorant. Such backwards thinking. We should say the same about humans since we're the most invasive and devastating creature to ever live on this planet. Gar arent the problem, ignorant people are.....


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Just Fishin' said:


> Same here. I have no problem with killing fish, as long as for good use (i.e. eating them).
> 
> Brent, do you have a link to what you read about bedding bass?


They also covered this on an episode of HOOK N LOOK...Carp, Etc, are also Bass egg eaters!

Research has indicated that removing a black bass (smallmouth bass, largemouth bass, etc.) from it's nest can reduce nesting success for an individual fish, and that nest failure can occur even if the bass is caught-and-released. The likelihood of a released bass returning to its nest without a negative impact to egg or fry survival depends on several factors. The amount of time a bass has been played during the fight, and the amount of time and manner in which the hook is removed by the angler, dictates how much the fish has been stressed. 

Stress levels determine whether the bass will return to the nest, and whether or not it can successfully provide parental care to the eggs or fry if the bass does return. During the time in which the bass is removed from the nest, there is no protection from predators such as bluegill or crayfish. Obviously, if an angler releases a spawning fish, it decreases the chance of nest failure, but it does not guarantee it. 
During spawning season, a largemouth bass male attentively guards its nest. Recent research at the University of Illinois found that catch-and-release angling could give bass predators the perfect opportunity to consume the young. In fact, the time spent away from the nest during a catch-and-release event and the subsequent exhaustion it creates for the male are critical to the survival of the embryos, particularly in lakes with high densities of brood predators.
"One of the main conclusions of the study was that in a lake where there are very few brood predators, when you angle a male away from his nest and then immediately release him, the chance of a negative impact is less, but if the nest is located in a part of a lake where there is a high density of brood predators, once the male is removed, predators get into the nest very quickly," said U of I fisheries research scientist Jeff Stein. "On average, the time it took brood predators to finish eating bass young was from two to five minutes in cases where the nest was located near schools of brood predators."
Stein said that the message to anglers is, if they are catch-and-release angling for nesting bass early in the year, it's best if they can get the fish back into the water as soon as possible, especially if the lake is known to have a high density of largemouth bass predators such as bluegill, pumpkinseed, or rock bass.
In the study, 70 nests were located within nine lakes in southeastern Ontario and southwestern Quebec, which were closed to public angling during the data collection period. All of the lakes contained natural largemouth bass populations, with varying numbers of known brood predators. Stein snorkeled in shallow water wearing a neoprene wetsuit that provided buoyancy to float for hours at a time. He observed the nests and assigned scores representing the number of brood predators and the quality of parental care demonstrated by the largemouth bass dads. (The female leaves immediately after laying the eggs and has absolutely no part in parental care of the nest. The males defend the nests from predators.)
Nesting males were captured and held in a live well for 15 minutes, then released  but took another 30 minutes on average to return to their nests. Stein put that return time into perspective by comparing catch-and-release practices for both professional and amateur anglers. "A pro who isn't interested in anything about the fish other than that he caught it will rip that fish over in about 15 seconds into the boat and spend only about another minute or two with the fish before releasing it back into the water," Stein said. "Casual recreational anglers may be afraid they're going to lose the catch and so may play it a little more, which exhausts the fish more. After the fish is caught, it might accidentally flop around on the floor of the boat for a while. They may put it in a live well if they're thinking of keeping it or until they get the camera out. Five minutes or more elapse."
Stein said that by the time the fish is finally released back into the water it's tired and stressed. He compared the fishes' exhaustion to a runner in a marathon being told to hold his breath at the finish line. 

This image shows bass underwater.
(Photo Credit: University of Illinois)
When "dads" are released back into the water, they don't head right back to the nest. "They're disoriented so they go to the bottom to sit and recover for a while and get their heart rate back to stasis," Stein said. "The fish is saying, 'Okay, I lived through whatever that was. Now where is my nest?' and by the time it actually gets back to the nest it has been gone from it 30 minutes." 
Because bass typically spawn only one time per year when the water temperature reaches a critical threshold, it's doubtful that the male will spawn a second time if it loses its eggs to a predator. This means that, in places that have a high density of brood predators, catch-and-release, particularly during spawning season, could result in a reduction of the bass population.
The bass population is also affected by how many broods are actually captured each year. "In a lake with 100 bass nests but very little angling pressure and not many predators, one, two, or three nests where the male gets captured and the nest is raided won't make a big difference in the overall population flow because most of the first-year young are going to survive," Stein said. "But in a smaller lake with lots of bluegill and lots of anglers throughout the spawning seasonthat scenario could affect the next generation of bass."
Fishing spawning beds for bass is a known strategy among knowledgeable anglers, Stein said "During spawning season, the males are highly aggressive and the females are big because they're full of eggs ready to spawn. Some jurisdictions, some provinces, and states in North America disallow any fishing for bass or require catch-and-release angling during the spawning season," he said. "Illinois has a regulation for streams that prohibits harvesting smallmouth bass from April 1 to June 15 to encourage a successful spawn."
"I could envision a future where regionally or in specific lakes in which we know some bass populations may be at risk because of the presence of large numbers of brood predators and angling pressure is really high, that management would track these ingredients that can have a high negative impact on the bass population," Stein said. He added that in some areas of Ontario, for example, bass fishing doesn't open until the fourth weekend in June.
"We definitely know that the success rate of largemouth bass nests when parental care is interrupted is lower," Stein said. "During catch-and-release angling, the male may become so physically taxed that it doesn't continue parental care. The big question we're still looking at is how it affects the whole population."


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

zack2345 said:


> Ok so carp are invasive that's why there is no limit and you can bow hunt them all you want .... They were introduced in the 1800's and now there out of control .... You guys think Mother Nature can sustain itself... It can if people stop bringing fish that are not native... You guys saying you won't kill a fish is crazy ... Carp and asian carp are invasive fish they have no purpose in our river system.... Back to gar... Gar have to be getting overpopulated.... I don't know the numbers or any thing but I've never seen so many in my life. When I went to dale hallow 8 to 10 years ago I never saw one gar ... Now when we go there are hundreds just in every cove it seams like.... As well as the streams in ohio there every where.... So since ohio does not have a limit on how many you can take in a day why not get rid of every one you can... I suggest that every one on this site throw every gar asian carp and carp up on the bank unless you want to eat it or have something better to do with it


I hate largemouth bass. Is it OK with you if I come to your favorite lake and toss 5 on the bank per day since I legally can? And those stupid non-native saugeye, those need to go, too. I can feed 6 of those per day to the raccoons.


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## JPfishing (Mar 13, 2008)

As someone who one day would like to catch an alligator Gar as big as me, i know that wont be easy due to the numbers of large gar that are around. they are dwindled due to over killing because they were "trash fish". Could be the case for these gar one day. Just because you find them trash, maybe it's someones "fun catch" for that day. 


It's called be respectful to nature. Be grateful you can be on this earth to fish it. Ruining it by killing the fish for no reason, i hope karma strikes you.


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## FlashGordon (Mar 19, 2014)

senger said:


> Your thinking of having a fish fry. You go out to catch some channel cats and catch a thirty pound shovelhead. Do you keep it?


Anybody who is thinking of eating a thirty pound shovelhead should google the term "*mercury biomagnification*".

The EPA recommends consuming no more than 1 serving per month of flathead catfish over 23" taken from Ohio waters......and mercury concentration just keeps increasing with age. IA 30 lbs flathead could easily have a mercury concentration 5-6 times that.

http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/fishadvisory/index.aspx


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Actually there are 4 Native types of Gar....they are doing well in Ohio's Rivers and streams, because of population reduction of predators of their eggs, fry, and young, and because when water conditions are bad, they can breath air!
Man did this...the Gar is just a survivor!

I agree that non-native invasive species should be destroyed, only because of the effect they have on Native species...but again, Man is at fault for their existence...and little can be done, now that they are here, and established!

To stop Asian Carp, you would have to kill the entire fishery and then start over, there is really no other option that will work...but, no one is willing to do that!


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## FishDude (May 15, 2014)

Agree with a lot of posters here, people think because there are a lot of fish now there will be a lot of fish in the future. Do people remember what happened to the buffalo? Just because your grandpappy told u gar and carp are trash fish does not mean that's where they belong. I have nothing against bowfishing but the slaughter of fish with no limits could destroy future populations for all fishermen. 

Things need to change and limits should be imposed. Pictures like this are posted on a daily basis on bowfishing forums. Send em to the dumpster, that's where they belong!


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## Nubes (Dec 3, 2012)

Intimidator said:


> Actually there are 4 Native types of Gar....they are doing well in Ohio's Rivers and streams, because of population reduction of predators of their eggs, fry, and young, and because when water conditions are bad, they can breath air!
> Man did this...the Gar is just a survivor!
> 
> I agree that non-native invasive species should be destroyed, only because of the effect they have on Native species...but again, Man is at fault for their existence...and little can be done, now that they are here, and established!
> ...





Ive even read about the reintroduction of alligator gar in KY and OH rivers! I would build a set up just to catch those awesome beasts! Could you imagine the fight from an alligator gar that is solid muscle and weighs over 200lbs?? LOL you'd need a saltwater rig like they use on that show Wicked Tuna???


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## Roscoe (Jul 22, 2007)

Well,for one,if you see a Big Female on the nest,let her be.You should have caught her and more in prespawn when they were feeding just B4 the spawn.Too late now.

For throwing Gar,and Carp on the bank to die,the Grim Reaper doesn't like it and might pay you a visit and tell you to put it back in the water or else you you will be eating your Gar and Carp Sushi right there.If you catch one,I'd throw it back.

Some learn to be excellent fishermen and a bunch can't put it together.


Roscoe


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## SMBHooker (Jan 3, 2008)

Question? 

Has anyone based off the reading of the thread given thoughtful consideration of points discussed and consciously decided to change either your actions, thoughts or both in terms of your treatment of fish, wether "trash fish" or game fish?


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

TheCream said:


> I hate largemouth bass. Is it OK with you if I come to your favorite lake and toss 5 on the bank per day since I legally can? And those stupid non-native saugeye, those need to go, too. I can feed 6 of those per day to the raccoons.


So the cream you could do that all you want. I get why your saying this but why do that when saugeye are delicious ? Even bass are good to eat... Carp and gar not so much... So then we come to the point that bass and saugeye are game fish.... Saugeye are not native to our waters but they can not reproduce... So there is no way they could overpopulate a lake or river. So there is no problem with saugeye being stocked. Bass have never taken over any state regulated lakes I have been too.

Has any one ever been to florida fishing for bass with shiners ? Well when you pay 1.50-2.00 a shiner then go out and the gar bite your bait in half all day long you tend to develop a hatred towards a fish... Same thing happens at dale hollow with minnows crappie fishing... And bass fishing with chubs in the creeks around here... So when I do actually catch them they go right up on the bank for the ***** cause one they are hard to cook and eat.... They just suck period


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

SMBHooker said:


> Question?
> 
> Has anyone based off the reading of the thread given thoughtful consideration of points discussed and consciously decided to change either your actions, thoughts or both in terms of your treatment of fish, wether "trash fish" or game fish?


I don't think I'll ever change unless they put a bounty on them like beaver in some places... Then I'll actually try to catch them and keep them... That's they only way I'd keep a gar for something usefull...


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## Core_d (Apr 7, 2014)

SMBHooker said:


> Question?
> 
> Has anyone based off the reading of the thread given thoughtful consideration of points discussed and consciously decided to change either your actions, thoughts or both in terms of your treatment of fish, wether "trash fish" or game fish?


Yes ive considered letting my next gar I land swim away. They do seem way over populated in some places I fish.


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## Just Fishin' (Nov 27, 2012)

SMBHooker said:


> Question?
> 
> Has anyone based off the reading of the thread given thoughtful consideration of points discussed and consciously decided to change either your actions, thoughts or both in terms of your treatment of fish, wether "trash fish" or game fish?


I've targeted bedding bass in the past, but am considering against it in the future. Brent gave some excellent info to research further (which I started doing at work today lol).. as one who gets frustrated with the whole lack of quality lake bass fishing in this area, it seems like something I'd seriously consider.

As far as tossing carp and other "trash" fish on shore to die and possibly be eaten by a predator, I've never been one to do this in the first place. However, I can understand the hostility towards some of these invasive species of fish (excluding the native gar species of course, but I may be partial as they are on my list to catch this year).

I'm glad to see at least some intelligent conversation on this thread. We will never all agree on everything, but must accept other people's point of view (well at least try to anyway lol)..

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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

zack2345 said:


> Has any one ever been to florida fishing for bass with shiners ? Well when you pay 1.50-2.00 a shiner then go out and the gar bite your bait in half all day long you tend to develop a hatred towards a fish... Same thing happens at dale hollow with minnows crappie fishing... And bass fishing with chubs in the creeks around here... So when I do actually catch them they go right up on the bank for the ***** cause one they are hard to cook and eat.... They just suck period



So you are mad at a fish for acting like a fish? I've caught hundreds of unwanted gar. I strongly dislike them. So you are killing a native fish because you are angry with it? That seems beyond bizarre and borderline sociopathic to me. But maybe I'm just a big sissy??? I've said my piece, I'll now bow out of this discussion cause it's just getting redundant. 



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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

zack2345 said:


> So the cream you could do that all you want. I get why your saying this but why do that when saugeye are delicious ? Even bass are good to eat... Carp and gar not so much... So then we come to the point that bass and saugeye are game fish.... Saugeye are not native to our waters but they can not reproduce... So there is no way they could overpopulate a lake or river. So there is no problem with saugeye being stocked. Bass have never taken over any state regulated lakes I have been too.
> 
> Has any one ever been to florida fishing for bass with shiners ? Well when you pay 1.50-2.00 a shiner then go out and the gar bite your bait in half all day long you tend to develop a hatred towards a fish... Same thing happens at dale hollow with minnows crappie fishing... And bass fishing with chubs in the creeks around here... So when I do actually catch them they go right up on the bank for the ***** cause one they are hard to cook and eat.... They just suck period


Saugeye can breed with both of their parents....that's why they are not stocked in brood Walleye lakes or Lake Erie...and why fishermen should not put them in these lakes. 
This is why I don't think stocking saugeye is a good thing...some idiot fisherman is gonna try to make him a honey hole in Erie and ruin the fishery during my sons lifetime.

I'm not a carp or gar fisherman but my Grandmother fished for both and made delicious meals of both.
One of the saddest displays of human ignorance, is the destruction of the "trash" fish population of GLSM "because the fish stir up the bottom releasing the nutrients on the bottom that causes the algae blooms"!
Are you kidding me??? You're gonna kill fish and not put a dent in the population, but have unlimited horsepower boats and boat races on a lake that is 5 feet deep...how freakin stupid!
That is one of the biggest propaganda lies I have seen lately.


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

I understand gar are native to this area but 5 to 10 years ago I never saw them in the creeks and rivers that I fish... Now I see them coming up sucking air every where and the creeks don't produce as many quality fish like they used to. I know you people who disagree with me have had to noticed this... I'm not saying I go out and target catching gar to kill them I'm just saying if I happen to catch one it's not goin back in the water.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

zack2345 said:


> I understand gar are native to this area but 5 to 10 years ago I never saw them in the creeks and rivers that I fish... Now I see them coming up sucking air every where and the creeks don't produce as many quality fish like they used to. I know you people who disagree with me have had to noticed this... I'm not saying I go out and target catching gar to kill them I'm just saying if I happen to catch one it's not goin back in the water.


If gar are coming up and sucking air, then the dissolved oxygen in that area is too low...that is why no other fish are around!


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> Saugeye can breed with both of their parents....that's why they are not stocked in brood Walleye lakes or Lake Erie...and why fishermen should not put them in these lakes.
> This is why I don't think stocking saugeye is a good thing...some idiot fisherman is gonna try to make him a honey hole in Erie and ruin the fishery during my sons lifetime.
> 
> I'm not a carp or gar fisherman but my Grandmother fished for both and made delicious meals of both.
> ...


http://www.walleyesinc.com/walleyeinc2/corey20021.html 
Read this... They can reproduce but not very well... Says they could never sustain a stable population without being stocked. So I think erie will be ok


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## zack2345 (Dec 22, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> If gar are coming up and sucking air, then the dissolved oxygen in that area is too low...that is why no other fish are around!


So your telling me in the middle of coves in dale hollow don't have enough oxygen? There everywhere man


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

zack2345 said:


> http://www.walleyesinc.com/walleyeinc2/corey20021.html
> Read this... They can reproduce but not very well... Says they could never sustain a stable population without being stocked. So I think erie will be ok


They are talking about saugeye sustaining a saugeye population in a stocked saugeye lake...saugeye released into Erie would destroy the pure genetics of "Erie" Walleye...and you can't get it back.


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## FishDude (May 15, 2014)

Carp and gar are not why your water sucks, it is people! People destroy water through pollution and over harvest ,folks see a lot of carp and gar around so it must be the "trash fish" causing the issue, not you. 

Through evolution carp and gar can survive in less than ideal water conditions so it may seem like they caused the issues. They didn't. Their ability to survive in these unfortunate conditions shows how remarkable these fish are. They are both hearty and very intelligent.

Healthy carp populations also live alongside the non-native brown trout in America's blue ribbon trout streams. These pristine waters aren't roiled up by carp, it's the human factor we need to stop to save our waters.

Next time you see a carp try to fool him with an artificial. We will see who is more intelligent.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

zack2345 said:


> So your telling me in the middle of coves in dale hollow don't have enough oxygen? There everywhere man


I was talking about the streams/rivers...Dale Hollow has a different issue...it has zebra mussels, and I THINK, 2 other invasives, which are changing the ecology of the lake!


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## extagerus (May 12, 2013)

No, no, no.
What is wrong with some of you? It's bad enough to kill something when you're not going to eat it but especially when it's native. Gar are native, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. Some of you need to realize that it's not just about the kinds of fish you think people should fish for. Calling any fish a "trash fish" is pure stupidity. A lot of fish that are called "trash fish" are better "game fish" than many of the fish that are usually called "game fish". Plus the fact that some of them are better survivors and have abilities other fish don't, and some of you have a total lack of appreciation for them.

It's sick how some people act like babies, and can't even understand that there are other things that matter besides just what they want. 
There's obviously too many "trash people" around. Are we supposed to throw them in the water to drown or bash their heads with a rock?


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## db1534 (Mar 18, 2010)

Zack < Brent

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## Cat Mangler (Mar 25, 2012)

Wow! 

No, no, inner battles.

1) I am completely surprised by the blatant disregard for wildLIFE by outdoorsman. Why anyone would feel the need to leave any creature to die like that is beyond my comprehension. Understandably, invasive species which pose threats of harm should be removed and dispatched, but how about some respect and good stewardship to do so humanely. I dont see how removing one or even many of a native species will help you catch what you are after. Considering what they eat, if there are large populations present, chances are that there is less competition for food with less of other species present. And although they may eat gamefish fry when available as they've been doing for millions of years, I would bet a lot of money that it is due to fishing pressure that has caused the circumstances, not them overeating. 

Perhaps if this pesky little trash fish was more sought after, then the pressure would equalize things back out to more sustainable populations! If catching what a waterway has to offer you isn't enough, then you should probably find some new spots. Heck, get back to your inner kid and enjoy just catching anything. Killing a fish just because it isn't what you want it to be is in no way gonna increase your chances of getting what you want imo. If you want them gone that bad, just turn someone like me on to it, i would love to get into a mess of any fish! And after all, even the best of C+R methods kill a percentage of the fish we catch according to the odnr, even the good fish.

A good question, one i may ask when considering to partner up with people in the future.

2) Although i have decided to try flat head for the first time this year, dont think i could bring my self to keep anything over 5-10#'s. I have heard from some southerners that the bigger they are the better but, i feel no need to keep them my self. If you promise fish for a fry and that is all you catch, you better feed them folks! I somehow feel the fryer is a far better fate than being hearded for a pay-puddle.

3) This answer may make me sound somewhat hypocritical, but hey, im not the only one here as told from the replies some have given so; its ok right? I admit i have targeted spawning and gaurding bass, especially when first learning to bass fish as this was how i was first shown to catch em. Then, i would hit my favorite bedding grounds every chance i had gotten. Now, i limit myself to 2-3 times tops since taking the time to research the species to improve my technique. I do hope to enter a level of knowledge that allows me to forget about the thrill of spawning bass by catching equal quality the rest of the time. Lets face it though, an aggressive male bass fight is as hard to turn down for a fishing addict as a stem is to a crack head!

Great thread, despite how depressing and disheartening! SMB, i learned me some things, much of which concerns the level of purity that some "outdoorsman" may lack. I am no saint by all means but, sheesh, shaking my lowered head! :-(


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

There are not that many bowfisherman in this state to have a drastic impact on the rough fish populations. If you took all the bowfisherman in our state it wouldnt come close to the amount of rough fish taken on lake erie by netters. Some states do have bowfishing limits on buffalo suckers and paddlefish. If it were a concern of bowfishing overharvests the state would step in and set limits. To answer the OP question I would say no, no, and no.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

So the answer is "ethics are relative".

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