# Out of state bow hunters...



## ski (May 13, 2004)

First,
I went out to NW Coshocton county today (Thursday) this am and had 3 does walk by me at 7 yards. I was sitting in a round rockpile, almost like an old foundation. It was an awesome natural ground blind. The does walked by my 2 tinks 69 patches and din't even notice them. I was hoping there would be a big boy behind them but no luck.


Second, is anybody else seeing a lot of out of state hunters this season. In the last two weeks I have talked to guys from Maine, Upstate NY, Mass and Tenn. Every truck I go by has out of state licenses!!!!
Several of them said they read about Ohio and are here for the week, knocking on doors and hunting public land.
I guess thats what we get for having a good, cheap state to hunt in.

ski


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

We were camping in Coshocton county last week and there was a group the that was from Mississippi and Louisiana. There were 10 guys in the group. They were good hunters and had managed to take 11 deer during the week. I don't believe they had any bucks of much size but they were certainly filling the freezer in the process of seeking a trophy.


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

I've been hunting around Salt Fork and have seen people from all over and talked to 2 diffierent groups from Vermont! have seen NC, Mich, PA, IN, IL, KY, WV, VA. and more I can't remember right now. but the guys I've talked to have said the same. They seem to be pretty courtious so far atleast the Vermont and PA groups that are huntin the same piece of private I am.


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## Blaze6784 (Nov 3, 2006)

Most Vermonters are really decent about hunting other people's land. And I don't blame them for wanting to come to Ohio. I have lived in the deer woods of Vermont and there aren't too many trophies.


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## fishintechnician (Jul 20, 2007)

I have group from Nc hunting one of my peices of private land about 6-8 guys they got a really nice buck (damn it!!) last weekend and I have seen alo tof out of state plates the word is getting out that we have some very good hunting and they are taking notice big time


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

all i can say is we need to raise the price of the out of state licenses and tags


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## avrock30 (Oct 11, 2005)

I hunt Coshocton county a lot as my parents have a farm there. The neighbors are getting restless becasue there are some people there that are leasing out htier lands and selling hunt packages to out of staters for 1000.00. This would not be a problem is these people that come up out of state and stay where they are suppose to. There is 1800 acres of private land all around my parents and very few have permission to hunt there. I met several from Michigan and NC that just happen to wander to the middle of it? How do you wander that far? I am for raising out of state prices, Has any one seen how much it is to go to Montana to hunt the milk river area? It is 900 just for tags and a liscense. I do not mind out of staters coming i nto hunt our areas but the people responsible for bringing them in need to show responsibility and show thier people the boundaries.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

As far as the prices for the out of staters. I think there should be some sort of reciprocating charge between the states. In other words it should cost pretty much the same to go to their state as it does to come to ours.

As far as the leases and how the guys act on those properties, I don't see that as a related issue. There are in-state guys who lease as well and it doesn't matter what state you are from you should be able to follow the rules and property lines. Unfortunately not everyone does and that is where the law enforcement steps in. If they break the law then they need to be charged regardless of the state they came from.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I see tons of out of state plates any more. Muskingum county where my family has hunted since the 60s is leased up big time - mostly by out of staters in the area we hunt. It is now so bad we have abandoned the small farm our close friends have - can't keep leasers off the property since every inch of ground surrounding it is leased and subsequently sub-leased throughout the season (residents also tresspass). We even found stands hung right next to our stands. I drove over and went around with the property owner in Oct and took down all of our stands and every other piece of equipment on his property. There were 9 illegal stands on 130 acres and NOBODY has permission except us. They are up in his barn in a pile. I will continue to visit our friends and it is a great place to camp (although they have hurt the fishing in his small pond too). It is maddening, but he is 80 years old and can't monitor it well.

IMO our out of state fees are way too low. I also would not be in favor for the reciprocating fees. While this works for other top end deer hunting states charging large fees, it fails for the majority of states that have no where near the hunting OH has. My point is this (I made the fee up and didn't take the time to look it up): If I can go to say Alabama and buy license and tag for deer for say $150, I don't think it is appropriate for a guy from Bama to come up to OH and hunt for the same $150. The hunting is in no way comparable. We need to charge a premium for what OH has to offer.

I think we should leave the license as is, increase the antlered tag dramatically, and give non-resident hunters a free antlerless tag with the purchase of the antlered tag. If that antlered tag cost in excess of $500 many would choose not to come to OH. Many would continue to come to OH and the extra revenue would cover (and probably exceed) the difference for those that choose not to. 

IMO we also very badly need to create an outfitter license and reporting system. Any businessman that wants to profit from outfitting hunters in OH should pay a fee and be subject to audit of their practices - just like every other legitimate business. I'm not normally one for more government, but it is getting out of hand and some of our fellow OOS hunters are getting ripped off and misled by shady "outfitters". I don't mind OOS hunters coming to OH - I travel and hunt in other states with friends that live there and we have a great time. I just feel the time has come for OH to step up to the plate and head off a potentially ugly situation.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Fish-N-Fool said:


> I see tons of out of state plates any more. Muskingum county where my family has hunted since the 60s is leased up big time - mostly by out of staters in the area we hunt. It is now so bad we have abandoned the small farm our close friends have - can't keep leasers off the property since every inch of ground surrounding it is leased and subsequently sub-leased throughout the season (residents also tresspass). We even found stands hung right next to our stands. I drove over and went around with the property owner in Oct and took down all of our stands and every other piece of equipment on his property. There were 9 illegal stands on 130 acres and NOBODY has permission except us. They are up in his barn in a pile. I will continue to visit our friends and it is a great place to camp (although they have hurt the fishing in his small pond too). It is maddening, but he is 80 years old and can't monitor it well.
> 
> IMO our out of state fees are way too low. I also would not be in favor for the reciprocating fees. While this works for other top end deer hunting states charging large fees, it fails for the majority of states that have no where near the hunting OH has. My point is this (I made the fee up and didn't take the time to look it up): If I can go to say Alabama and buy license and tag for deer for say $150, I don't think it is appropriate for a guy from Bama to come up to OH and hunt for the same $150. The hunting is in no way comparable. We need to charge a premium for what OH has to offer.
> 
> ...


Those are some great points about the OOS costs. I was speaking off the top of my head on that one and can tell that you have given that more thought. Your reasoning makes sense in not all states being equal in what they have to offer. That being said it would stand to reason that if you based the price on what the state had to offer then Ohio's should be among the higher prices throughout the country since it generally considered one of the premiere states.

That would definitely suck to be dealing with the situation that you mentioned with surrounding lease properties. I still don't directly relate it to the OOS hunting though because those leases could just as easily be from someone within the state. I know there are many folks within in the state that do lease. Has anyone approached the owners of these adjoining properties to address the problem? I wonder if it is a case of the lessees doing their own thing? And if the lessors were aware of the amount of trespassing would they do anything about it? Just a thought. I know you mentioned that the guy is older and probably does not want the headaches of pursuing it. I am not sure how much you or someone else may be able to for him. Situations like that certainly do give hunters a very bad image.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Unfortunately many of the leases ARE residents taking advantage of elderly property owners. They have tried like heck to lease this farm (it used to be a GREAT place to hunt). One guy in particular has leased up a BUNCH of properties in the area. He sells himself as a "professional" with his partner and tells the landowners he mostly films and photographs. Several of the owners don't live in the area (several not in Ohio actually). This guy leases these farms and trucks in hunters by the van load subleasing - some out of state, some residents. In addition, a very wealthy amish man bought 1,100 acres bordering this property and he leases by the week to whomever has a check in hand through this same classless individual.

It got really bad this year because the brother of the property owner I am referencing had a farm across the road as well (we hunted it since the 60s too). He died the first week of Sept unexpectedly and left the farm to his nephews in his will. They live in Indiana and his farm is now overrun by locals and others. Frankly, it's like public hunting and probably dangerous during firearms season. 

I guess this is one reason I have such an extreme opinion on the state becoming involved with outfitters. I don't think most of these property owners understand what they are signing (most are elderly around there) and many don't know what is going on as they live in other states, etc. The hunters themselves get dupped and some I've spoken to feel slighted and promised they wouldn't return. However, there is already another hunter anxiously waiting to fill their place the next season and so the cycle continues. Just 5 years ago none of this was occuring in this immediate area.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

I was reading the Ohio Outdoor News newspaper at the barbershop yesterday. They had an article stating 10 years ago they sold < 10,000 licenses to out of state hunters. Last year they sold approximately 34,000 deer permits to out of state hunters.


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

one classic example of out of state hunters being out of control is that new online program that matches up hunters with farmers in their area...........i read somewhere online that there was literally THOUSANDS of out of state and even some out of the United States hunters that signed up for that program ...........which takes away potential hunting areas from the local guys to hunt on..................i think that is a bad situation right there.........what is gonna stop the farmers from eventually just opening up their land to the highest bidder to these out of state hunters in the future.........and what effect will that have on Ohios deer herd in the future if that starts happening.

And has ANYONE actually gotten a call from that online program to hunt on any of these farms ?? I havent heard of anyone in my area that has !!!


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I have no problem with guys leasing out their land for hunting. It is their land. They own it. And the last I checked we still lived in a capitalist economic society. The problem lies in the manner in which it may be leased. As Fish-N-Fool mentioned the guys around him are not doing their part to see that the ones they lease to follow the guidelines. That creates an ugly situation.



As far as getting permission to hunt on farms I have to believe that it is not as difficult as some people suggest. Farmers do not like the deer being there and having someone eliminate them during archery season is a plus for them. I have received permission from a few folks over the years to hunt archery season. In asking I don't recall any of them saying no simply because they didn't want the hunters. They either allowed me to hunt or already had guys in there.

Every year the archery deer kill numbers continue to go up which is an indication of the increased popularity of the sport. There is still enough room out there for all of us if everyone cooperates. And there are more than enough deer to go around as well.


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## Metzie (Feb 11, 2009)

I signed up. I have not heard anything!!


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

I agree that Ohio is way to cheap for out of stater's to hunt. I 100% agree with the recipricating cost of tags. Plublicity of Ohio's great whitetail deer hunting is going to hurt many hunters. Many farmers are starting to lease their land to out of stater's and outfitters. When your offered thousands of dollars to lease your hunting rights it is tuff for the struggling land owner to say no. This hurts the locals as they can't hunt where they once did. I'm fortunate that the farmer where I hunt considers us pretty much family as he tell's us every year that he is made offers from out of state hunters and outfitters to lease up his land. Hunting is becoming a money game and it will only get tougher in the future for the avg Joe to hunt unless he's on public land. Also the large tracts of land are disappering as ground is "lotted" up and sold. I love the sport but I can't imagine what it will be like in about 20 yrs when my sons are young adults.


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## BITE-ME (Sep 5, 2005)

Whether it's fishing or hunting, I hate rubbing elbows with people on the water or stepping on somebody's toes in the woods. Ohio has the highest population density in the Midwest (in the top 10 nation wide - click on the link below). You don't have to be a genius to figure out that this will equate to less opportunity (for quality hunting) on your public lands, especially if you live in SW Ohio where public land isn't that abundant. If you've spent anytime in the woods or on the water around here, particularly on the weekends, then you know what I am talking about. The amount of pressure put on these limited resources stinks  I don't need out of staters adding to my problems.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mapofusa.net/us-population-map.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.mapofusa.net/us-population-density-map.htm&h=346&w=608&sz=96&tbnid=wambyDJ0jI_lmM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpopulation%2Bdensity%2Bmap%2Bunited%2Bstates&usg=__bD9YCwJWCrxIBW-1CymwxuWcjlQ=&ei=kHojS_yxEcfRlAeF9YyGCg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CBMQ9QEwAw

IMO - I think the DNR should take this into consideration and help protect the resident's opportunities by decreasing the bag limit for non-residents and increase non-resident license & permit fees. At a minimum they should at least bring the fees for non-residents up to market value or higher.

By the way, I just got done watching Tom Miranda whitetail hunt with some outfitter in Bellefontaine, Ohio on ESPN this morning. It was pretty neat to see our state and it's wildlife resources getting some well deserved props, but after reading this post I have mixed emotions about the added attention .


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## Bonemann (Jan 28, 2008)

I don't think that the ODNR will ever raise the cost of non-resident licenses or deer tags. (it brings in too much other money for lodging, food ,ect.)

Hunting leases are becoming more and more popular with all land owners.

Near where I hunt (private land) there is a small farm that for the last 5 years has been leased to a group of 10 amish fellows. The owner can't be blamed he gets $10 an acre for 260 acres = $2600, not bad for doing nothing.

I couldn't understand why they would pay so much for it untill I did the math.10 hunters taking 6 deer each = 60 deer if they average 50lbs. of meat from each deer thats 3000lbs. of meat. With thier other expenses tags,license,ect.
that's still less that $1.40 per pound (no bad for great meat).

But this year they didn't lease that land, when I asked the owner why? He said that they like to rotate thier leases like rotating crops. In the last 5 years they took 300 deer from the property and now they will let the numbers build back up for a few years and then come back and hit it hard again. I'm not a fan of this kind of harvesting.

I'm afraid that more and more land owners will be doing this kind of leasing in the future.Not only are they getting some extra cash but they are getting rid of thier problem of deer hurting thier crops.

Only time will tell the future of deer hunting in our great state, I really don't want it to be how it was when I was a kid when you hardly ever saw a deer.


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## Cool Hunter (Dec 8, 2004)

I agree that people are going to continue to lease land if out of state tag prices are raised. But less out of state people will lease if the prices are raised. Why shouldn't out of state people be subjected to a draw like some other states? If for nothing else, at least bucks. With raised prices and a need to draw a tag then the out of state guys would be reduced. We would also be a lot closer to some of the other great whitetail states like we should be on prices and drawing tags. Residents would have the same one buck per year rule, no drawing for tags. As we all know the number of leases is increasing which stinks. Places where we used to ask for permission, we now have to pay to hunt. I know of 400 acres that gets leased out for $8,000 per year by 8 guys. Thats $20 dollars an acre! 

Increased prices on tags and drawing for tags (both for non-residents) will ALLOW us to hunt in the future. At this rate we won't be able to afford to hunt anywhere in the future.


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

BITE-ME said:


> Whether it's fishing or hunting, I hate rubbing elbows with people on the water or stepping on somebody's toes in the woods. Ohio has the highest population density in the Midwest (in the top 10 nation wide - click on the link below). You don't have to be a genius to figure out that this will equate to less opportunity (for quality hunting) on your public lands, especially if you live in SW Ohio where public land isn't that abundant. If you've spent anytime in the woods or on the water around here, particularly on the weekends, then you know what I am talking about. The amount of pressure put on these limited resources stinks  I don't need out of staters adding to my problems.
> 
> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mapofusa.net/us-population-map.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.mapofusa.net/us-population-density-map.htm&h=346&w=608&sz=96&tbnid=wambyDJ0jI_lmM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpopulation%2Bdensity%2Bmap%2Bunited%2Bstates&usg=__bD9YCwJWCrxIBW-1CymwxuWcjlQ=&ei=kHojS_yxEcfRlAeF9YyGCg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CBMQ9QEwAw
> 
> ...


It's going to get worse before it gets better. The ODNR wants the deer killed and if that means cheap out of state tags to draw in more hunters and kill more deer then that works just fine for them. You mentioned Ohio as being one of the more populated states in the country. We also rank near the bottom in amount of public land. As more and more deer get whacked on public land, more and more people will flock to and pay private land owners for access shutting more and more residents out of good places to hunt. A statewide bag limit of 12 deer is freakin ridiculous as well(6 in C, 4 in B & 2 in A). I am not in favor of seperate regulation for private and public land as I think enforcement would be near impossible. However, they NEED to bring the bag limits back to something reasonable(statewide 3 max, and make C=3, B=2 & A=1). A small increase for an "either sex tag" for non-residents would make a TON of sense(maybe charge $45-55), but I don't think we'll see it in the near future.


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## Bonemann (Jan 28, 2008)

crittergitter said:


> It's going to get worse before it gets better. The ODNR wants the deer killed and if that means cheap out of state tags to draw in more hunters and kill more deer then that works just fine for them. You mentioned Ohio as being one of the more populated states in the country. We also rank near the bottom in amount of public land. As more and more deer get whacked on public land, more and more people will flock to and pay private land owners for access shutting more and more residents out of good places to hunt. A statewide bag limit of 12 deer is freakin ridiculous as well(6 in C, 4 in B & 2 in A). I am not in favor of seperate regulation for private and public land as I think enforcement would be near impossible. However, they NEED to bring the bag limits back to something reasonable(statewide 3 max, and make C=3, B=2 & A=1). A small increase for an "either sex tag" for non-residents would make a TON of sense(maybe charge $45-55), but I don't think we'll see it in the near future.


As far as I know it's actually 6 deer limit for Ohio. 

I live in zone C and the limit is 6. I can't go to other zones to take more but I think that 6 is a little too much here in zone C.

I have read some articles from the ODNR and they believe that if you lower the doe to buck ratio that the bucks will get bigger because the better bucks will be able to service the fewer doe out there.(passing along better genes)

I don't know if this is true but for the last 5 years I have seen fewer and fewer deer overall where I hunt.And I have not seen a big change in the number of big bucks being seen or taken.


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## Fishstix (Aug 16, 2005)

I hunt in Holmes County and a farmer on the adjacent property hired in a shooter to fill his damage permits. Word around the area has said that that he shot 20 mature Does. I did see some change in our woods this year. First, all we were seeing were bucks and yearlings. The mature Does were nonexistant.

Another thing that changed was the number of shooter bucks my group saw this year. I believe we had encounters with 7 different shooter bucks thus far this season. None of us were able to connect, but I missed a dandy 10 point on November 1st. I believe this was because there were fewer Does in the area and it forced the bucks to get up and look for them. In years past, I would say the group of us would usually see 3-4 different shooter bucks while in the stand.


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## squid_1 (Jun 2, 2005)

Just out of curiosity Fishstix. Did the adjacent farmer allow hunting?


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## Fishstix (Aug 16, 2005)

Yeah, he allowed a local Amish man hunt his farm this year. I heard he shot a nice 13 point on the property. His son's also hunt the property, but during the gun seasons because they are from out-of-state. Trust me, my Dad used to hunt the property 30 years ago. It is prime hunting property. But when the old man died, his widow quit allowing him to hunt on it. Now his son-in-law farms it and won't allow many people to hunt it (as I stated above).


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## flwboy2010 (Apr 7, 2009)

Bonemann said:


> I don't think that the ODNR will ever raise the cost of non-resident licenses or deer tags. (it brings in too much other money for lodging, food ,ect.)
> 
> Hunting leases are becoming more and more popular with all land owners.
> 
> ...


60 deer on 260 acres who you kidding?The leasing is outragous.


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