# New regs - all straight wall and increased bag



## ostbucks98

They have passed new regulations for next season this evening.

All straight wall cartridges from .357-.500 will be legal.

They increased the bag limit of 2 deer to 3 deer in 21 southern counties.Athens, Belmont, Carroll, Coshocton, Fairfield, Gallia, Guernsey, Harrison, Hocking, Jackson, Jefferson, Lawrence, Meigs, Monroe, Morgan, Muskingum, Noble, Perry, Tuscarawas, Vinton and Washington.

reduction in the bag limit, from 3 deer per county to 2 per county in Allen, Defiance, Fulton, Henry, Paulding, Putnam and Williams Counties.



Happy for straight forward PCR regs but disappointed in increased bag limits for deer. 

Us hunters who care are gonna have to find a way to stand together.


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## Marcher

That is interesting!!! Didn't see the increase coming!!! Curious what their reasoning is for that?


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## Shad Rap

ostbucks98 said:


> They have passed new regulations for next season this evening.
> 
> All straight wall cartridges from .357-.500 will be legal.
> 
> They increased the bag limit of 2 deer to 3 deer in 21 southern counties.Athens, Belmont, Carroll, Coshocton, Fairfield, Gallia, Guernsey, Harrison, Hocking, Jackson, Jefferson, Lawrence, Meigs, Monroe, Morgan, Muskingum, Noble, Perry, Tuscarawas, Vinton and Washington.
> 
> reduction in the bag limit, from 3 deer per county to 2 per county in Allen, Defiance, Fulton, Henry, Paulding, Putnam and Williams Counties.
> 
> 
> 
> Happy for straight forward PCR regs but disappointed in increased bag limits for deer.
> 
> Us hunters who care are gonna have to find a way to stand together.


Just dont kill 3...


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## ostbucks98

Hahaha....come on shadrap...you know it doesnt work like that......just about every one of the 800, 000 hunters who buy a tag expect to kill atleast one deer. Its not the people who bag 3 that are the problem.


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## beaver

It's a stable population right now. They want to keep it that way. I agree.

If you don't have enough deer where you hunt in your opinion, then don't shoot any deer 

I myself have plenty of deer and have no problem eating through them. I plan on tagging out next season.


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## Shad Rap

ostbucks98 said:


> Hahaha....come on shadrap...you know it doesnt work like that......just about every one of the 800, 000 hunters who buy a tag expect to kill atleast one deer. Its not the people who bag 3 that are the problem.


It was a joke really...I was just saying if someone doesnt like the bag limit increase...


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## bobk

If the herd is stable why increase the bag limit? Hocking county was down 12% and they increase it? Guys that hunt the Wayne already struggle to see deer. They are wrecking the public hunting land even more.


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## beaver

They're being proactive, not reactive. We are by no means in a deer crisis. There are still plenty of deer on our public lands, just not over ran like it used to be. Guys got used to anb unhealthy, but plentiful herd. Now it's stable, but you have to put some effort into it.


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## beaver

I don't deer hunt public land, but I duck hunt and trap plenty of public land. I see plenty of deer while out checking traps and walking in and out of my spots. Every time I run into a deer hunter , it's the same story "no deer left". I always tell them where I see the deer , and deer sign, but I never notice them changing their set ups. Sometimes you have to adapt. Just because the old faithful spot produced 10 years ago, doesn't mean it's always going to produce.


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## ostbucks98

Well its simple. When one resource stops producing you move to where that resource is. So don't be surprised if your deer utopias take a hit in the next few years.

175, 000 deer are gonna come from somewhere next year.


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## Snook

Increase the bag limits all you want on private ground. If guys want to shoot up their woods that's their business. BUT public lands are taking a beating with such liberal bag limits IMOP. Need managed differently than private.


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## UNCLEMIKE

beaver said:


> I don't deer hunt public land, but I duck hunt and trap plenty of public land. I see plenty of deer while out checking traps and walking in and out of my spots. Every time I run into a deer hunter , it's the same story "no deer left". I always tell them where I see the deer , and deer sign, but I never notice them changing their set ups. Sometimes you have to adapt. Just because the old faithful spot produced 10 years ago, doesn't mean it's always going to produce.


Since you don't hunt public land deer then I am sure you have no problem telling us where this great public land deer hunting can be found. Please be specific.


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## doegirl

Last time I checked, less than 20% of hunters take more than 1 deer. We are a small state with a ton of hunters. A bunch of people demanding a whole lot from a limited resource. Google "tragedy of the commons".
I don't pretend to know or have the answers. But I do suspect the amount of complaining some do has an inverse relationship with the amount of effort they put forth to be successful.


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## UNCLEMIKE

doegirl said:


> Last time I checked, less than 20% of hunters take more than 1 deer. We are a small state with a ton of hunters. A bunch of people demanding a whole lot from a limited resource. Google "tragedy of the commons".
> I don't pretend to know or have the answers. But I do suspect the amount of complaining some do has an inverse relationship with the amount of effort they put forth to be successful.


The simple truth is the resource is self perpetuating if you don't over kill the does. Im glad you added "some" to your statement as I know many hunters that take deer every year an put forth los of effort to do so. They still voice concerns about where the herd is headed. Implying that many that complain may just be lazy is a low blow but I have come to expect that from fellow hunters on line. Sad but expected it seems.


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## doegirl

> The simple truth is the resource is self perpetuating if you don't over kill the does. Im glad you added "some" to your statement as I know many hunters that take deer every year an put forth los of effort to do so. They still voice concerns about where the herd is headed. Implying that many that complain may just be lazy is a low blow but I have come to expect that from fellow hunters on line. Sad but expected it seems


Not quite true. Deer have many other factors affecting their numbers: coyotes, disease, vehicle collisions, habitat. Letting the does go might make things look rosy in the short term, but the correction that will happen to get the herd to where it should be is almost never pretty. Nature does not care that hunters want to see more deer. I would rather see the health of our deer be preserved for the long term, even it means I see fewer deer.


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## garhtr

UNCLEMIKE said:


> Since you don't hunt public land deer then I am sure you have no problem telling us where this great public land deer hunting can be found. Please be specific.


 No-one is going to do the leg work for ya 
I have some property in S/W that borders public land and I often hunt the public area especially during bow and MZ- loader because there's very little pressure and plenty of deer. Opening day of shotgun the public area gets a fair number of hunters but I would certainly not say it's over crowded and there are just as many deer on the public side of my fence as the private side.
This coming warm up would be a good time to scout for a new area -- if there are deer there now there will be some there next season and travel routes are well defined and easy to see this time of year.
Good luck and Good hunting.


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## UNCLEMIKE

garhtr said:


> No-one is going to do the leg work for ya
> I have some property in S/W that borders public land and I often hunt the public area especially during bow and MZ- loader because there's very little pressure and plenty of deer. Opening day of shotgun the public area gets a fair number of hunters but I would certainly not say it's over crowded and there are just as many deer on the public side of my fence as the private side.
> This coming warm up would be a good time to scout for a new area -- if there are deer there now there will be some there next season and travel routes are well defined and easy to see this time of year.
> Good luck and Good hunting.


Sorry, I was trying to make a point. I need no help finding or taking deer on public or private. I just want to hear from those that think the public hunting is great just exactly where they see this. In my experience of over 40years of hunting the public experience has gone down hill fast the last 5 years.


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## UNCLEMIKE

doegirl said:


> Not quite true. Deer have many other factors affecting their numbers: coyotes, disease, vehicle collisions, habitat. Letting the does go might make things look rosy in the short term, but the correction that will happen to get the herd to where it should be is almost never pretty. Nature does not care that hunters want to see more deer. I would rather see the health of our deer be preserved for the long term, even it means I see fewer deer.


I am speaking of public lands. Do what you wish on your own slice of heaven but reduce the doe kill on public lands. Not rocket science. The herd health is not at risk due to population on any of the public lands I hunt.


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## beaver

UNCLEMIKE said:


> Sorry, I was trying to make a point. I need no help finding or taking deer on public or private. I just want to hear from those that think the public hunting is great just exactly where they see this. In my experience of over 40years of hunting the public experience has gone down hill fast the last 5 years.


It has, just like it was supposed too. We had way too many, people got spoiled. Now we have a stable population and people have to work a little for their deer, and now they're crying about it. It's funny because the sames ones who shot their limits every season are the ones whining about not having a deer behind every tree now. 

Im not going to publicly give out what might be other people's spots that actually went out and scouted. However, I'd be happy to point anyone in the right direction down this way via message or whatever.


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## MassillonBuckeye

doegirl said:


> Not quite true. Deer have many other factors affecting their numbers: coyotes, disease, vehicle collisions, habitat. Letting the does go might make things look rosy in the short term, but the correction that will happen to get the herd to where it should be is almost never pretty. Nature does not care that hunters want to see more deer. I would rather see the health of our deer be preserved for the long term, even it means I see fewer deer.


Ahh.. Someone who can see past the end of their nose! Refreshing.

Waiting for the Cash bros appearance! I know they love them some deer regs threads! I don't think they are gonna like this change. Just a hunch. And they might finally find a friend in Bobk! This might get interesting folks!


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## doegirl

UNCLEMIKE said:


> I am speaking of public lands. Do what you wish on your own slice of heaven but reduce the doe kill on public lands. Not rocket science. The herd health is not at risk due to population on any of the public lands I hunt.


All I hunt is public land. I use to live in NW Ohio, where there is hardly any public land. I would travel 80 miles south for a chance at a deer. Now I'm surrounded by public land and know if I put in my time, chances are I will fill a tag.


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## garhtr

UNCLEMIKE said:


> Sorry, I was trying to make a point. I need no help finding or taking deer on public or private. I just want to hear from those that think the public hunting is great just exactly where they see this. In my experience of over 40years of hunting the public experience has gone down hill fast the last 5 years.


I got your point, you think public land has fewer deer but as I stated previously, there are just as many deer on the public land near me as there are on my property, that's why I hunt the public land.
I will agree deer numbers on my property and the public are lower than several years ago but public and private are both down-- still plenty of deer on both sides of my fence. IMO
Good luck and Good hunting.


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## wannabe

I have hunted public land the last 2 years during the first 2 days of gun season. I was with 2 people one year and 4 people the other. I could have tagged out both years multiple times while the other people barely saw anything or nothing at all. What's the difference? I walked farther than they did. There are plenty of deer out there if you know what to look for. And coincidentally, they saw other hunters, I didn't see any.


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## beaver

There is a gas station at the end of the road to our shop. I stop in there several times a day for coffee as I come and go with my daily routine. Four days during the shotgun season, at 0930ish, there was a group of orange clad "hunters" sitting in the gas station drinking coffee and griping about everything. I made it a point to ask how they were doing each day. You guessed it , " there ain't no dang deer left anymore." I just answered " I agree, there are no deer left in the gas station."


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## UNCLEMIKE

doegirl said:


> All I hunt is public land. I use to live in NW Ohio, where there is hardly any public land. I would travel 80 miles south for a chance at a deer. Now I'm surrounded by public land and know if I put in my time, chances are I will fill a tag.


I hunt mainly public land and drive 100 miles one way each weekend to do so. I do this as the public lands closer to me offer poor odds of taking a deer. I take a deer on public land most every year. The areas in the North East are over pressured and have very low populations. I never said there are no deer or one cannot be taken. It is not that black and white. All I am saying is the state allowed the herd to get out of hand to the plus side. To their credit they then took actions to get it under control. (insurance companies made sure of this). It was the right thing to do. Now they have gone too far in my opinion. There is no need to keep this level of pressure on the public land deer herds. Just the opposite is needed at this point on many public areas. I ask is the best we can ask for is "if I put in my time I will fill a tag", why can't we expect a little better than that from our state. I don't want a return to the highest levels. But I am not satisfied with current levels in the many areas I am familiar with. How about a middle ground here? How about fellow hunters allow other hunters to voice opinions without being put down? I just don't understand peoples motives.


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## garhtr

UNCLEMIKE said:


> I hunt mainly public land and drive 100 miles one way each weekend to do so. I do this as the public lands closer to me offer poor odds of taking a deer. I take a deer on public land most every year. The areas in the North East are over pressured and have very low populations. I never said there are no deer or one cannot be taken. It is not that black and white. All I am saying is the state allowed the herd to get out of hand . How about fellow hunters allow other hunters to voice opinions without being put down? I just don't understand peoples motives.


 I certainly wasn't trying to put anyone down or jump on anyone- just giving my observations, less deer on my land and less deer on public near me but still equal numbers on both. That's what I see and didn't me it as a slight to anyone, just my opinion, less deer every where.
Good luck and Good Hunting.


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## FAB

As I have encountered it, Ohio's public land is either of two types, large tracts of open old growth wood that you can see 200 yards down the valley, or reverting farms and reclaim surface mining ground that is now so brushy and so full of briars that you just can't make it through it.
There are deer on both but the problems with the first are food and bedding, of course a good stand of white oaks will feed and attract the deer for a short time in each season, the rest of the year they must find other browse to sustain them. If the understory is completely browsed and shaded out then they are not going to hang around there until after the acorns drop. The second is bedding areas, while the deer certainly bed in open woods, they can see you and hear you long before you see them. Good rule of thumb I have kept is "If you jump and see one deer, there were 5 others that you didn't see."

For the second type of habitat, reverting land, as many of you already know briars and Russian Olive brush have gotten out of control on many of the areas but they hold a lot more deer than we realize because 1. you just can't hunt it and second you can't see a deer in it if it were 10 feet away. Go back to some of these areas after a fresh snow and you will be surprised at the amount of sign left.
I notice with great approval that the state has started to cut some of these areas back creating clear food plots and even planting grains and other food to enhance them.

Granted the annual deer kill has decreased but if we look at the numbers for the states surrounding ours we will see that so have their numbers decreased at about the same ratio. This suggests to me that the decline in population is not necessarily hunter related but due to a larger physical event that crossed state lines and killed deer in all. CWD, no evidence of that here but in New York, West Virginia, PA yes EHD quite possibly one cause of part of the loss in all areas. Of course the rise in predator numbers has a more significant effect than we realize.
But bottom line there are still a lot of deer left in all our woods, no not near as many as 5 or 6 years ago but still quite a few and they are recovering from whatever event caused the decline. While this recovery is in process I would advocate some restraint on our part in trying fill every tag we have with tomorrows Momma's.

One other thing, I spent about an hour on the phone with Mike Tonkovich a couple of weeks ago and one of the concerns he had was that hunters have a lot of information and concerns that he never hears. One of the methods the DNR is currently using to attempt to gather these lost pieces of information is the annual survey , he spoke of the thousands of surveys sent out but only a fraction of those were returned. So if you get one be sure to do us all a favor and fill it out and send it in.


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## UNCLEMIKE

FAB said:


> As I have encountered it, Ohio's public land is either of two types, large tracts of open old growth wood that you can see 200 yards down the valley, or reverting farms and reclaim surface mining ground that is now so brushy and so full of briars that you just can't make it through it.
> There are deer on both but the problems with the first are food and bedding, of course a good stand of white oaks will feed and attract the deer for a short time in each season, the rest of the year they must find other browse to sustain them. If the understory is completely browsed and shaded out then they are not going to hang around there until after the acorns drop. The second is bedding areas, while the deer certainly bed in open woods, they can see you and hear you long before you see them. Good rule of thumb I have kept is "If you jump and see one deer, there were 5 others that you didn't see."
> 
> For the second type of habitat, reverting land, as many of you already know briars and Russian Olive brush have gotten out of control on many of the areas but they hold a lot more deer than we realize because 1. you just can't hunt it and second you can't see a deer in it if it were 10 feet away. Go back to some of these areas after a fresh snow and you will be surprised at the amount of sign left.
> I notice with great approval that the state has started to cut some of these areas back creating clear food plots and even planting grains and other food to enhance them.
> 
> Granted the annual deer kill has decreased but if we look at the numbers for the states surrounding ours we will see that so have their numbers decreased at about the same ratio. This suggests to me that the decline in population is not necessarily hunter related but due to a larger physical event that crossed state lines and killed deer in all. CWD, no evidence of that here but in New York, West Virginia, PA yes EHD quite possibly one cause of part of the loss in all areas. Of course the rise in predator numbers has a more significant effect than we realize.
> But bottom line there are still a lot of deer left in all our woods, no not near as many as 5 or 6 years ago but still quite a few and they are recovering from whatever event caused the decline. While this recovery is in process I would advocate some restraint on our part in trying fill every tag we have with tomorrows Momma's.
> 
> One other thing, I spent about an hour on the phone with Mike Tonkovich a couple of weeks ago and one of the concerns he had was that hunters have a lot of information and concerns that he never hears. One of the methods the DNR is currently using to attempt to gather these lost pieces of information is the annual survey , he spoke of the thousands of surveys sent out but only a fraction of those were returned. So if you get one be sure to do us all a favor and fill it out and send it in.


Great post....I agree 100 % with your point about something more than just the annual hunters kill having an impact on the herd size in recent years. I have a few areas that went from plenty of deer to almost none in one season. Hunters did not do this. The state however only seems to look at the kill # in making policy. They cannot control the predators nor disease and I don't believe they have a good handle on what it has done to populations in some areas. They sure can soften the impact thru changed regulations if they recognized the level of the reduction that has taken place. Not an issue for them I guess as all along their stated goal was major reductions.


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## UNCLEMIKE

Now on the DOW site is a detailed list of this years proposed changes. There is a link to allow for opinions and comments. I just gave them my views. I encourage others to do as well! Nice that they have added this not that I am confident they would give much stock in what hunters may think. Guess I just that glass is half empty kind of guy when it comes to them.


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## Snook

UNCLEMIKE said:


> I am speaking of public lands. Do what you wish on your own slice of heaven but reduce the doe kill on public lands. Not rocket science. The herd health is not at risk due to population on any of the public lands I hunt.


Lol... I must agree!!! Some of the public ground has tremendous potential to offer fantastic deer hunting if just managed better. Just my opinion.


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## gumbygold

beaver said:


> It has, just like it was supposed too. We had way too many, people got spoiled. Now we have a stable population and *people have to work a little for their deer*, and now they're crying about it. It's funny because the sames ones who shot their limits every season are the ones whining about not having a deer behind every tree now.
> 
> Im not going to publicly give out what might be other people's spots that actually went out and scouted. However, I'd be happy to point anyone in the right direction down this way via message or whatever.


That could be an issue. I have hunted a park in central ohio that is public and shot deer both seasons I went. Good scouting, time in the tree to observe, and zero in on sign and patterns. I was told by some locals that "there are no deer in there". I also spent a lot of time driving around the locale looking at where other hunters were going in. I hunted around the hunters as much as the deer.


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## TomC

was hoping on 223/556 and .308 becoming legal rifle calibers. Guess ill wait and hope for next year. Don't want to buy another rifle because these are already setup and are suppressed.


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## beaver

The .223 will never and should never be legal. Sure it will kill a deer, but so will a .22 mag. It doesn't mean that it's efficient enough to be a legal caliber.


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## catfishhunterjames

For a good deer population you should see 3-5 per 12 hours hunting on top of that don't the first deer you see. I know people that complain about not seeing deer but some how they kill a 50 pound deer every year, as a deer manager myself since I hunt them just like everyone else I let the smaller deer walk and try to kill a mature deer that's older. I check camera yesterday and I had 4 or 5 bucks that lost antlers and had 6 that had them, and roughly half mile area with public land is less than quarter mile away.


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## TomC

69gr and 75gr will do just fine at it!


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## Ripley

Ok Ok now you have all gone and done it. I have to speak about all of this, and as we all know I'm probably going to catch some heat for something.... but... keep in mind that we all know it's my opinion and it's the only one that really counts....lol

In my opinion I believe that....

The bag limits should be lowered... taking a six deer collective/overall statewide limit is a bit ridiculous. I do however like the idea of the county limits which can be raised or lowered accordingly.

I also think that the season should be shortened to maybe the first full week in January after New Years Day. If the 1st falls on a Thursday you have up to Sunday the 11th to hunt. If the 1st falls on Saturday or Sunday then you would have till the following Sunday to hunt which would be Sunday the 9th.

I also think that the cost of hunting license should go up to $25 to $30 dollars and tags should go up to $25. This may bring up in discussion .... it will cause more poaching.... NO... in MHO if you're going to poach... you're going to poach ... doesn't matter what the price of license or tags are.

Out of state license and tags (includes fishing) should be raised to reflect the average price of cost as other states. Or ... if you want to come play in Ohio, Pay what your state is charging for out of staters to come play in your state.

The cost of license and tag going up is fine with me as long as it would put more Wildlife Officers in the field. I also think that fines and punishments should increase and get harsher. I understand that one fish over the limit can happen. Or a little bit small or big on the size happens. But... blatantly over or netting... or poaching....or whatever rules/laws should be dealt with and those who do it should be made an example of. Littering and fishing line is one of my biggest peeves. When I'm out in the middle of a beautiful public area and see beer cans and snack wrappers it p!$$&$ me off. Out fishing and seeing bait containers do the same. I take trash out of everywhere I go.

As far as guns go... Straight walled cartridge is great. I like the options to choose from that we have.
I don't think we need to have bigger broad shouldered cartridge guns. At least not in Ohio. Nothing big enough or long range enough shoot around here.

Sorry for the long wind post. I keep quiet about a lot of things and hate to get started. I really could keep going on this stuff, but not prudent here. Anyway.... I like that forums like this happen. I learn things on here that change my opinions, and how I look at things, or it makes me look into things and I learn from it through the so called research I have to do.


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## hopintocash2

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Ahh.. Someone who can see past the end of their nose! Refreshing.
> 
> Waiting for the Cash bros appearance! I know they love them some deer regs threads! I don't think they are gonna like this change. Just a hunch. And they might finally find a friend in Bobk! This might get interesting folks!



I don't care what the state does. This year I adapted, I bought no hunting license, or deer tag. I reserved no hotel room, spent no money on supplies for deer camp, didn't spend any money at the outfitter stores, didn't patronize any of the businesses. But I did walk out my back door and headed 300 yards east and took a seat in my blind quite a few times. Eventually took a young buck late bow season. It was a nice relaxing, cheap deer season for me. Gonna do it again next year.


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## garhtr

catfishhunterjames said:


> For a good deer population you should see 3-5 per 12 hours hunting on top of that don't the first deer you see..


 That depends on the hunter, I work with a few guys who don't see 5 deer each season and it's not because there's not a good deer population, it's because they're lazy.
In my opinion if straight walled cartridges are fine shouldered or necked cartridges wouldn't be a problem , maybe start with private land so no one freaks out.
Good luck and Good Hunting.


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## hopintocash2

garhtr said:


> That depends on the hunter, I work with a few guys who don't see 5 deer each season and it's not because there's not a good deer population, it's because they're lazy.
> In my opinion if straight walled cartridges are fine shouldered or necked cartridges wouldn't be a problem , maybe start with private land so no one freaks out.
> Good luck and Good Hunting.


We currently have regulations that allow us to use firearms capable of 200 yards. I'm not sure what part of Ohio you hunt, but from my experience, that's good enough. Really no need for high power rifles. IMO.


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## garhtr

hopintocash2 said:


> We currently have regulations that allow us to use firearms capable of 200 yards. I'm not sure what part of Ohio you hunt, but from my experience, that's good enough. Really no need for high power rifles. IMO.


I think straight walled cartridges are "high power rifles" why not a 30-30, 
32 Winchester or even 308, just say rifle, everything would be fine --IMO
Good Luck and Good Hunting !


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## beaver

We don't need high powered rifles anymore than we needed pistol cartridges, but why not? It's not about what we need. It's about having to buy more crap. I have a couple Centerfire rifles laying around that I wouldn't mind using, and a 30-30. I don't happen to have any pistol cartridge rifles and I sure am not going to go buy one just to shoot deer. If they'd allow the 30-30, I'd use it though. Really it's probably less ballistic equivalent than a good muzzle loader load anyway.


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## catfishhunterjames

I will take my muzzle-loader over my .243/6mm rifle I have more knock down power with it out to roughly 125 yards. I reload load my .243 brass so my load is hot than you get off the shelf at the store.


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## ostbucks98

beaver said:


> The .223 will never and should never be legal. Sure it will kill a deer, but so will a .22 mag. It doesn't mean that it's efficient enough to be a legal caliber.


Lol....sorry man I used to respect your opinion around here until the above post.


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## beaver

I understand that the .223 is capable of killing a deer with the right load and the right shooter. However, you have to think about what would happen. Sure there would be guys like Tom who would drop them dead with the right load and shot placement, but there would also be a ton of guys out there shooting cheap fmj ammo and thinking that they have themselves a 500 yard deer rifle. In reality, it's still just a .22 caliber bullet and there isn't much margin for error.  Just my opinion. I think it's a capable round, just not capable enough to turn everyone loose with it .


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## TomC

Well I have the ability to go out to 200 yards at my Miami co property and 400+ in Fayette co. Would I shoot 400, no but 100-200 I would have no problem all day long. I have my Ar dialed in with a suppressor, it shoots less than 1/8" groups at 100yrds and 1/4" or less at 200yrds. To me a high powered rifle is anything 223/556 and up.


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## miked913

TomC said:


> Well I have the ability to go out to 200 yards at my Miami co property and 400+ in Fayette co. Would I shoot 400, no but 100-200 I would have no problem all day long. I have my Ar dialed in with a suppressor, it shoots less than 1/8" groups at 100yrds and 1/4" or less at 200yrds. To me a high powered rifle is anything 223/556 and up.


You can drive a nail in with a pair of Chanel locks, but you should use a hammer, and the right tool for killing deer is not .22 cal


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## TomC

All else fails my buddy has a Savage Arms 110ba stealth in 338 lapua with a suppressor I could use!


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## miked913

Atleast if you hit a piece of straw on the way to your deer you'll still have a whole bullet hit where you were aiming.


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## Captain Kevin

This entire debate about population isn't a deer population problem, it's an access problem. You can't kill em' if you can't get to em'. Leases, and posted property have handcuffed the DNR in their management. You can raise the limits to 20 deer per man, but if you can't hunt where the deer are, it may as well be 1.


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## beaver

That's life. Most people who own enough land to hunt on , use it. If they're hunters, I can't blame them for wanting to keep it to themselves to regulate it as best they can to their needs. If they're farmers, can you really blame them for being a little leary of letting random people onto their property with the reputations that the modern hunter has?


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## miked913

Captain Kevin said:


> This entire debate about population isn't a deer population problem, it's an access problem. You can't kill em' if you can't get to em'. Leases, and posted property have handcuffed the DNR in their management. You can raise the limits to 20 deer per man, but if you can't hunt where the deer are, it may as well be 1.


The highest deer densities often coinside with the highest human populations which means city limits etc. And has little to do with the leasing and posted properties. It's in these urban areas that the deer/car problems exist and the high dollar insurance lobbyists start to play a part in the deer herd equation instead of science.


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## ostbucks98

It may be .22 diameter but that's where the comparison ends.


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## Lundy

You guys asking for more and more calibers and bottleneck cartridges are doing EXACTLY what the opponents to the straight wall rifle proposal said would happen. That is why it took sooooooo long to get them approved. Ohio hunters are their own worst enemies


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## catfishhunterjames

TomC said:


> Well I have the ability to go out to 200 yards at my Miami co property and 400+ in Fayette co. Would I shoot 400, no but 100-200 I would have no problem all day long. I have my Ar dialed in with a suppressor, it shoots less than 1/8" groups at 100yrds and 1/4" or less at 200yrds. To me a high powered rifle is anything 223/556 and up.


Shooting the same MOA at 100 and 200 yards are not likely, and if your are shooting .1195 moa at them yards you may want to try out for the Olympic.


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## miked913

You never know he could be friends with the guy that was shooting coyotes at 1000 yards "all the time"


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## catfishhunterjames

Better chance of hitting a coyote at 1000 yards than shooting a .12 moa at 200 yards. That saying you can shot through a CD or DVD hole at 200 yards because they are .5 inches. Not saying it impossible but saying its a grouping that mean normally 5 shots and I would say it will never happen just my opinion.


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## TomC

its very possible, if you build it right. Right barrel, optics, sandbags/bipod. Im running an 18" stainless heavy barrel with 1-8 twist, in wylde chamber, barrel was a little over $300.00 alone. I was going to go with a 20" or 24" barrel but 18" barrel itself is a little over 3.5lbs. I have a buddy that has the 24" and its like carrying a railroad tie out in the field. Then there is the option of looking into the nation match complete uppers, and well some of those shoot in 1000yrd competitions.


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## miked913

TomC said:


> its very possible, if you build it right. Right barrel, optics, sandbags/bipod. Im running an 18" stainless heavy barrel with 1-8 twist, in wylde chamber, barrel was a little over $300.00 alone. I was going to go with a 20" or 24" barrel but 18" barrel itself is a little over 3.5lbs. I have a buddy that has the 24" and its like carrying a railroad tie out in the field. Then there is the option of looking into the nation match complete uppers, and well some of those shoot in 1000yrd competitions.


That's an awfully lot of stuff to carry to your deer stand.


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## TomC

Its got a sling!


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## catfishhunterjames

Sorry but I still say it BS I dont think the gun would shot that in a gun vise because at 200 yard if the wind changes from 5 to 7 mph you have to adjust for 1 inch wind drift because at 5 mph it 2.5 inches and at 7 mph it 3.5. There no way possible to shot .1195 MOA to many variables at 200 yards. That mean you have 12/100 of inch in between the farthest to bullet hole in a group of 5 bullets.


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## TomC

well if ya don't believe me that its possible, theres plenty of videos on youtube shooting the same setup I have at even longer distances! Just because one cant shoot accurately at one distance doesn't mean another one cant! and im sure its possible to hit a target accurately, guess my army buddies cant hit crap at 400m with a 16" barrel.


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## beaver

They can't hit those groups at that distance. I can hit a human silhouette target at 800 meters with a 16" barrel and open sights (or at least I could and did when I was in the Marines). That doesn't mean that the round will be effective at that distance or that I can hold any kind of group at that distance. 

He's not saying you can't shoot accurately at the distances you're claiming. He's saying you can't shoot as accurately as you described because it's basically impossible according to his calculations. 

I'm not going to debate MOA and ballistic possibilities, but I will say regardless of wether it groups that well or not, you can't use a bench mounted vise and controlled conditions to gauge the accuracy of a hunting rifle. Unless of course you're dragging all of that stuff out to your hunting spot with you. Lol


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## miked913

Plus the animal has to stand perfectly still for you to make all your adjustments and there has to be nothing in the way to deflect the bullets either. A .22cal bullet will have quite a deflection with the smallest of twigs then there is the likely hood of fragmentation of a bullet in those light of weights!


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## catfishhunterjames

Chris Kyle shot 1/2 MOA so you say your a better shot than him? Also military sniper rifle has the ability to shot .3 MOA maybe you need to go show them how its done.


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## supercanoe

I don't think that we need any more calibers added to the list. If you can't kill a deer with the options that we have, you are doing something wrong.


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## Popspastime

How do you shoot 1/8th inch holes when the 22 is almost a quarter inch???? And 1/4 at 200??? NO WAY! 1 hole groups size of the bullet thru an AR??? hehehe what you smoking??


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## miked913

Must be a 1 shot group?


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## supercanoe

TomC said:


> Well I have the ability to go out to 200 yards at my Miami co property and 400+ in Fayette co. Would I shoot 400, no but 100-200 I would have no problem all day long. I have my Ar dialed in with a suppressor, it shoots less than 1/8" groups at 100yrds and 1/4" or less at 200yrds. To me a high powered rifle is anything 223/556 and up.


Get a 450 Bushmaster upper for your AR and you will have a gun capable of killing deer at 100-200 yard ranges.


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## catfishhunterjames

A dime is .7 of a inch that mean he could put 5 round though a dime without hitting the edge. Also the image below states that snipe rifle could shot .3 MOA and these are trained shooters and they cannot touch his .1195 moa 

http://modernfirearms.net/sniper-e.html


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## TomC

I was looking at a 450 upper, I looked into the 300aac, but the ballistics when shooting suppressed vs non suppressed where so different. Im liking the 150yrd zero on the 450. It may be my next project after my ar pistol is completed.


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## ostbucks98

supercanoe said:


> I don't think that we need any more calibers added to the list. If you can't kill a deer with the options that we have, you are doing something wrong.



Glad your a minority.


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## ddcollier

back to deer regs. the DOW has formed a deer management stakeholder organization that will be tasked with helping them develop ohio's 10-year deer management plan. i do not know if this is on odnr website yet but it is posted on buckeye firearms association web site, interresting read


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## supercanoe

ostbucks98 said:


> Glad your a minority.


Why?


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## gumbygold

The way I understood it is it's about safety over the flat lands. ODNR is looking at what is deemed as a safe round (similar ballistics to shotgun, inlines). It has nothing to do with the number of tags to be filled. It gives hunters freedom of choice which I am all for. Telling me I can use a hot 12 ga load out of a rifled barrel but not a .45-70 is asinine.


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## ostbucks98

supercanoe said:


> Why?


Because your to closed minded. Why even limit what you can use in the first place if It is sufficient enough to kill a deer? A dead deer is a dead deer.

I support more options and I don't even gun hunt.


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## gumbygold

ostbucks98 said:


> Because your to closed minded. Why even limit what you can use in the first place if It is sufficient enough to kill a deer? A dead deer is a dead deer.
> 
> I support more options and I don't even gun hunt.


It's called freedom, something we can use more of around here. Of course, change is a hard pill to swallow for some.


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## catfishhunterjames

I think the problem with the other guns is because the gun and shot 300 plus yards they will try it and then it will put more people in danger because of it. There's people out that shots multiple time and don't think what is behind that bullet. The guns now after 300 yards the bullet drop is 3 feet if not more so less chance of carrying long distances.


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## hopin to cash

My views are over the top at times... so I will just say this... maybe the ODNR is doing the best they can... lets just let the numbers speak for themselves... If hunter success rates go up and all parties with steaks in the fire are equally satisfied than so be it...


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## catfishhunterjames

Go to the pheasant hunts when they release them see how many people will aim at someone to shot a bird just think if that was a deer. Just saying I will never go back because I had a group of guy shoot a bird that went over my head and I was between them and the bird and I had orange on just because of I wanted to be safe. Sorry someone people my say they are safe but truly are not.


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## ostbucks98

What if a plane crashed on me while I was out hunting?


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## beaver

How many accidents due to high powered rifles do they have in all of the other states around us that allow them?


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## bobk

ostbucks98 said:


> What if a plane crashed on me while I was out hunting?


You'd be dead.


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## catfishhunterjames

What state around Ohio that you can use a high powered rifle.

http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/taah-sh-20161120.html
http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/taah-sh-20161115.html

Again it's not the gun that kills people it but it people themselves.


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## beaver

You gave a link to a story in Kentucky where someone was killed in a "hunting" accident with no other information. 

The other link is from a story in SC where someone mistook another person for a deer and shot them. It didn't mention what kind of gun they were using, but it doesn't matter. They purposely shot them because they thought they were a deer. That has no merit in a caliber debate. Maybe a vision test requirement, but not a caliber debate. 

The graph you showed is for unintentional firearms fatalities for each state in 2010. That also has no merit. It doesn't say if they were hunting accidents, at home accidents, at the range accidents, etc. Nor does it say if they were shotguns, rifles, pistols, etc.


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## beaver

And to answer your question, all bordering states with the exception of Indiana (pistol cartridge like us) allow Centerfire rifles for deer hunting.


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## garhtr

http://www.nssf.org/newsroom/releases/show.cfm?PR=120511.cfm&path=2011
If you don't fall out of your tree stand and you don't shoot yourself everything will be fine. 
I haven't seen the Ohio hunter injury report for 2016 yet but I always thought ODNR should make those reports more visible to the general public, hunters in Ohio are doing a Great Job at playing safe.
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## beaver

Exactly. Pretty much all hunting accidents involve someone falling from a tree, shooting themselves, or getting shot by the person they're hunting with. None of which matters what kind of gun is being used.


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## Spike Dog

We CAN use high powered rifles for hunting deer here in Indiana.

High powered rifles are allowed in northern Michigan as well (north of the 45th parallel).


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## beaver

I stand corrected. Thanks. The chart I looked at also didn't mention the pistol cartridge for ohio , so it must've been outdated.


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## Spike Dog

No problem Beaver. The law just changed this year. I haven't heard or read about anything bad happening yet as far as injuries or damage to property.
Also - public land hunters are still limited to shotguns and muzzle loaders I believe.


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## hopintocash2

Some one help me here. We have regulations that allow us to use firearms very capable of 200 yards. I would guess most deer are taken at 75 yards or in. So other than I have one , what is the point of high power rifles?


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## beaver

Why not? We don't need compound bows , semi auto slug guns, or "primitive" weapons capable of 250 yard shots, but nobody complains about them.


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## Lundy

The majority of deer hunting and harvest deer come from private property. Much of that land in owned and controlled by members of the Ohio Farm Bureau. It was the Ohio Farm Bureau that was eventually convinced to support Sunday Hunting and again much later after years of convincing pistol caliber rifles. Without the support of the people that actually own the property we hunt on it is unlikely you will see change enacted that could have an impact of them real or imaginary. The Farm Bureau stated concerns with them supporting the pistol caliber rifle initiative, concerned it would be the first step to further expansion of legal calibers with greater performance. Based upon this thread they were well founded in their concerns if many here could have their way.

I am pretty sure that if the Farm Bureau is against further expansion of calibers permitted for hunting that it isn't going to happen. I think that works just the way it should.


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## garhtr

The farm bureau was against Sunday hunting-- they changed their mind.
The farm bureau was against pcr-- they changed their mind.
The farm bureau is against the further exspansion of calibers permitted for hunting ???
Good luck and Good hunting !


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## lawrence1

Farm Bureau has the ODNR in their back pocket.
I'm skeptical of the damage permit numbers the ODNR releases.
Deer tags should be five dollars.


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## Fishballz

Manage the deer herd/ population properly and it doesn't matter what you kill them with. That being said, it seems most that hunt public land anyway are un happy with the current situation. Making it easier/legal for people to use a hpr won't do anything positive for our deer herd except reduce it further. If you see too many deer you should be all for it!


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## TomC

After doing further research, Im going with a bushmaster 450 20" upper, 500-600 for it. Ive already got a spair complete lower I picked up from palmetto state armory for 150.00. still cheaper than a lot of lever guns!


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## bobk

hopintocash2 said:


> Some one help me here. We have regulations that allow us to use firearms very capable of 200 yards. I would guess most deer are taken at 75 yards or in. So other than I have one , what is the point of high power rifles?


For me it's very simple. I'm bored with what I have to hunt with. I'd like something new to hunt with. I have other weapons in the safe that I would enjoy hunting with. I'm enjoying the fire and coffee this morning. Reading some old posts.


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## Bprice1031

bobk said:


> For me it's very simple. I'm bored with what I have to hunt with. I'd like something new to hunt with. I have other weapons in the safe that I would enjoy hunting with. I'm enjoying the fire and coffee this morning. Reading some old posts.


You could look into hunting other states with those weapons. You'd be surprised what you're allowed to hunt with in some of the southern states.


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## beaver

Bprice1031 said:


> You could look into hunting other states with those weapons. You'd be surprised what you're allowed to hunt with in some of the southern states.


Or we could just legalize it here since there is no real logical reason not to. There is no sense in driving hours away just to kill the same deer we have here, with the same terrain, with the same gun that we have in our gun cabinet. The only complaint I have with ohio's system is that we are historically behind the times when it comes to updating regulations. 

I was on the state Board as a district director for one of our outdoor associations responsible for the continuation of our outdoor interests. We helped with the change of several regulations that were outdated. It was surprisingly smooth and easy with little to no opposition from the powers that be. I was told that a lot of the regulations were designed a long time ago and aren't as relevant as they once were in another time. The only reason they weren't changed was because nobody organized and complained about it, and there is enough that goes into changing these things that they weren't going to go out of their way to change if nobody cared.


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## hopintocash2

And hunting new terrain with a new weapon might help with being bored.


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## garhtr

bobk said:


> For me it's very simple. *I'm bored with what I have to hunt with. I'd like something new to hunt with. * I have other weapons in the safe that I would enjoy hunting with. I'm enjoying the fire and coffee this morning. Reading some old posts.


 You may get your chance with a air- bow  but I doubt we will(unfortunately) see any exspansion beyond prc.
Good luck and Good hunting !


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## bobk

I doubt it will expand either.


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## fastwater

bobk said:


> I doubt it will expand either.


Me either...and my old 270 sure collects a lot of dust since I don't hunt out of state anymore.


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## Longhorn

I never understood the logic regarding your hunting laws in Ohio. If I understood things correctly, at the time I lived there (2000-2010), you could use a .50 BMG to shoot squirrels if so inclined, but a .270 was out of the question for deer. I'd heard the argument that Ohio was "too flat" and "too populated" for high power rifles. Of course, being from Harris Co., TX (population ~3.5 million back then) which is on the coastal plain and pool table flat and has deer hunting in the rural sections, I found that assertion to be a bit comical to say the least.


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## fastwater

Longhorn said:


> I never understood the logic regarding your hunting laws in Ohio. If I understood things correctly, at the time I lived there (2000-2010), you could use a .50 BMG to shoot squirrels if so inclined, but a .270 was out of the question for deer. I'd heard the argument that Ohio was "too flat" and "too populated" for high power rifles. Of course, being from Harris Co., TX (population ~3.5 million back then) which is on the coastal plain and pool table flat and has deer hunting in the rural sections, I found that assertion to be a bit comical to say the least.


Agree with all counts...especially the 'squirrel' and 'comical' part. And, there's a .22 projectile embedded in the wood wall in our living room as we speak from the rifle of a tresspassing squirrel Hunter.  Was done many years ago when previous owners lived here.


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## ErieGoldSportfishing

I'm a little late to the table here but beginning with the first post, those regs were not "passed" that night. They were simply proposals at that point. Open houses and comment period follows proposals. Next month's (April) wildlife council meeting will be the actual vote.

As far as the proposals go on deer limits what I will say is bag limit proposals typically involve science and social factors. In the simplest of terms.....what is best for the herd and for hunter opportunity. We've all heard about how undermanned the ODNR is. That is very real. Believe me they do the best they can with limited resources and frankly it's quite an impressive group that we have starting from the top down. 

A lot of great thoughts are brought up in this thread about the deer herd. Public land concerns are valid and as several people pointed out private lands tend to get managed by those who have control over them. I think it's a valid thought that there are local deer herds that state regulations have very little effect on. The people managing and hunting private property impact those herds far more.

There is a Coalition of biologists, hunters, and other stakeholders that has been pulled together to come up with a comprehensive long term management plan for Ohio's deer herd. It will involve lots of meetings over the next 18 months. Even with all the different stakeholders involved it will be impossible to come up with a plan that makes everyone happy.


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