# Well another leak.



## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Got the boat on the water yesterday. After a new out drive and repairing the block, I was only concerned about leakage in the hull. But I placed it in Berlin and tied to the dock while i went in and spoke to duke a while. Come out and bilge was still dry. A happy moment for me after all this work. So closed the dog house, fired her up and started to the other end. After 3-4 mile I find the feel was getting funny. So popped the box open and the bilge is getting full. Starting up the side of the engine. Circuit breaker popped and no bilge. After starting it a half dozen times I finally cut the wire on the 1100 and direct wired it. 500 worked fine then. Was surprised to find it pumped out and no water was entering boat. What the !!!!! 
Well fired up the engine and gave control to the wife. while i figured Id look for the problem. And then I seen it. A good 2" diameter stream coming from the tin shield that covers flywheel at the starter. 
Well I can only guess. But since it froze and cracked the block, Im guessing the freeze plugs behind the flywheel are blown out. Every once in a while I hear a loud metallic clutter from the engine. I'm guessing the freeze plugs bouncing on the tin cover and on and off the flywheel. Or at least Im hoping. So soon as the humidity lets me. I will remove out drive again! And this time pull engine! After first doing a Compression check wet and dry, and a leak down test. If i'm pulling the engine I want no more surprises. Will definitely change all the freeze plugs, and any thing to prevent this again. Might be wise to check teeth on fly wheel also.
Boat run about 4200 RPMS at WOT, But never seen a speed over 25 MPH. Oil pressure at super slow idle 40 lbs, and 60 lbs cruising. Definitely a top heavy boat and likes to sway. Trim Tabs worked and the shifting, throttle, kill switch and all worked fine. 
I've all but given up thinking i'll get to fish in it this year. But we'll see. But all in all coming along. Thinking I should have pulled engin when I found the block cracked. So much for being lazy. LOL!


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## bountyhunter (Apr 28, 2004)

your not lazy, I,d have gotten out the 357 mag and put her to bed.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Well tomorrow morning I'll do a wet and dry compression test to check valves,cyl, and rings. Then if i can still handle the heat and humidity the fun begins. Plus I found some bad spots in the flooring. So may just start that in between too! Dont look like a long job on the floor. As its in three pieces. Give me a chance to peek at the foam too! And check wooden supports around the gas tank


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

hey viper it seems like if it wasn't for bad luck we wouldn't have any luck at all. started out this morning and got 3 1/2 miles out and blew the upper outdrive, found one for 800.00 instaled tomorrow or tues. sure hope its better than the one I just had installed that I bought off ebay.
sherman


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Well better bad then none I guess. I got an upper thats suppose to be good. If you need one.. let it go for 350.00 thats what I paid.


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## HamiltonKdog (Oct 15, 2014)

viper1 said:


> Got the boat on the water yesterday. After a new out drive and repairing the block, I was only concerned about leakage in the hull. But I placed it in Berlin and tied to the dock while i went in and spoke to duke a while. Come out and bilge was still dry. A happy moment for me after all this work. So closed the dog house, fired her up and started to the other end. After 3-4 mile I find the feel was getting funny. So popped the box open and the bilge is getting full. Starting up the side of the engine. Circuit breaker popped and no bilge. After starting it a half dozen times I finally cut the wire on the 1100 and direct wired it. 500 worked fine then. Was surprised to find it pumped out and no water was entering boat. What the !!!!!
> Well fired up the engine and gave control to the wife. while i figured Id look for the problem. And then I seen it. A good 2" diameter stream coming from the tin shield that covers flywheel at the starter.
> Well I can only guess. But since it froze and cracked the block, Im guessing the freeze plugs behind the flywheel are blown out. Every once in a while I hear a loud metallic clutter from the engine. I'm guessing the freeze plugs bouncing on the tin cover and on and off the flywheel. Or at least Im hoping. So soon as the humidity lets me. I will remove out drive again! And this time pull engine! After first doing a Compression check wet and dry, and a leak down test. If i'm pulling the engine I want no more surprises. Will definitely change all the freeze plugs, and any thing to prevent this again. Might be wise to check teeth on fly wheel also.
> Boat run about 4200 RPMS at WOT, But never seen a speed over 25 MPH. Oil pressure at super slow idle 40 lbs, and 60 lbs cruising. Definitely a top heavy boat and likes to sway. Trim Tabs worked and the shifting, throttle, kill switch and all worked fine.
> I've all but given up thinking i'll get to fish in it this year. But we'll see. But all in all coming along. Thinking I should have pulled engin when I found the block cracked. So much for being lazy. LOL!


Being lazy is often counterproductive. Yep, pull the motor, give it a complete physical and try to remember to check everything twice. A check list may even be in order. Maybe even pull the waterpump and check it out


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Yep as a registered mechanic I'm well aware of that. Had mechanics I managed that were real good at shortcuts. Nope when this comes out It will get the once over. Actually pulling the water circulating pump would be a waste. As you cant see any thing more then when together. But I already checked it for play when i removed exhaust manifold last time. Good and tight. Want the compression check before pulling. It should tell me about the inside of motor. But I suspect that as good as it ran there is little wrong inside.
I am worried about the metallic rattling but feel quite sure its the freeze plugs dancin around in there. 
No Im really not lazy, as I prefer to do things once and do it right. But the fishing bug had me hurrying. Now im in a laid back state. Depending on my tests I may just get another block and rebuild from ground up. Depends on the readings. 
Lots of boats and people willing to take me out. I just have a hard time excusing myself from my own Boat when there is work to do. LOL!


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

viper1 said:


> Lots of boats and people willing to take me out. I just have a hard time excusing myself from my own Boat when there is work to do. LOL!


I know what you mean there. It's hard enough for me to fish on someone else's boat anyway, let alone when mine is laid up on the hard. You just can't stop thinking "if I hadn't spent this day fishing, I'd have had my boat in the water a day earlier", lol. Sometimes though, it is better to just drop it, step away, and forget it for a day. 

At this point, I think I'd be considering a rebuilt motor. Then, you know you've killed all the Gremlins, and, you could up the hp a little if you want.

You'll get it back together, but, I might suggest letting those soft spots wait until the winter when you won't be so rushed. Not to be pessimistic, but, my experience is when you start on the wood, one thing leads to another, to another, until it goes from I'll just fix these little places, to, Oh crap, I've got this boat gutted, lol.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Well did a compression check today.

CYL # Dry Wet
1 110 125
2 115 120
3 115 125
4 105 120

Specs call for 140 lbs 
So probably a leak down cyl. Test now. Try and figure out if its the block or head. With only a 10% increase wet its really hard to say. Id 5% id say valves,,,,and 30-40 % id say cylinders or rings. But 10%..... well Duh!


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## HamiltonKdog (Oct 15, 2014)

viper1 said:


> Well did a compression check today.
> 
> CYL # Dry Wet
> 1 110 125
> ...


Consistant readings. Engine is probably tired but looks very servicable. Having said that, its probably time for an overhaul including rod and main bearings.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

I agree, Since the oil didn't bring it up any further I am thinking block is good. With the leak down test it pointed more towards valves then any thing. But valves don't blow blocks. Good to know. So it seems to me that it should be ok to run this year. So i'll pull and replace plugs and give it an eye ball. If ok i'll put it back.
As im also going to open up my barn for a 11 -12 ft door. This way i'll have a place to store and work on it. It already has a home coal furnace in it. Maybe add some air for summer. Then i can start the restoration in the fall. 
Since only doing the freeze plug. I'm thinking I can lift it high enough to turn around and fix. Also to look at the rest. If ok drop right back in. Now to just build me a lifting system and Im on my way.


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

Why try to diagnose when you can just pull the motor and freshen it up and be done? You sure wouldn't catch me in it unless I was absolutely sure the motor was 100%. Seems you've spent a couple months already trying to guess whats wrong and you could have been fishing it.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

hey viper
im thinking the metallic rattle your hearing might just be the exhaust flaps. my boat has the rattle and really had me worried. so I took it to a mercruiser mechanic to check it out. and he said it was the exhaust flaps and nothing to worry about.
sherman


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

sherman51 said:


> hey viper
> im thinking the metallic rattle your hearing might just be the exhaust flaps. my boat has the rattle and really had me worried. so I took it to a mercruiser mechanic to check it out. and he said it was the exhaust flaps and nothing to worry about.
> sherman


Yea, but that wouldn't explain the bilge full of water...


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

No but the blown freeze plugs do. They bounce around the flywheel
striking the tin shields. Hope your nailing them fish.


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## bridgeman (Aug 26, 2010)

Those compression numbers would probably go up if you added some seafoam to clean things up, chase down thos last few gremlins in the end you'll find it was worth it. Been there done it myself, my broker EFnuttin says I can't afford a new boat


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## bajuski (Apr 9, 2004)

viper1 said:


> I agree, Since the oil didn't bring it up any further I am thinking block is good. With the leak down test it pointed more towards valves then any thing. But valves don't blow blocks. Good to know. So it seems to me that it should be ok to run this year. So i'll pull and replace plugs and give it an eye ball. If ok i'll put it back.
> As im also going to open up my barn for a 11 -12 ft door. This way i'll have a place to store and work on it. It already has a home coal furnace in it. Maybe add some air for summer. Then i can start the restoration in the fall.
> Since only doing the freeze plug. I'm thinking I can lift it high enough to turn around and fix. Also to look at the rest. If ok drop right back in. Now to just build me a lifting system and Im on my way.


You'll find pulling that engine out the easiest one you've ever pulled. I raised mine to replace a sheared starter bolt and replaced the rear seal while I had it out. It took less than an hour I bet to pull.
The ceiling in my garage is plastered so I just cut about a 8 x 8 inch hole where I wanted my chain for the come along, put a 4x4 to span 4 trusses above the hole, secured the chain to the 4x4 and attached my come along. I had enough room to raise the engine above the bilge where I put a couple of 2x10s across and set the engine down on them. I pulled it as a unit, with the coupler housing attached. I couldn't get it high enough to pull the boat out from under it but I didn't need to do that anyways, I did the work inside the boat.
BTW, the weight didn't even crack the plaster, the ceiling didn't droop at all. I left the 4x4 up there in case I have to do it again. Try not to change your mount adjustments while you're taking it apart and your alignment will be right on. I don't have an alignment tool, I used a driveshaft from an old alpha one I had around and it slid right into the coupler perfectly. I hope I make sense to you, I just took a sleeping pill and can't think very clearly right now..


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Going to try using a


bajuski said:


> You'll find pulling that engine out the easiest one you've ever pulled. I raised mine to replace a sheared starter bolt and replaced the rear seal while I had it out. It took less than an hour I bet to pull.
> The ceiling in my garage is plastered so I just cut about a 8 x 8 inch hole where I wanted my chain for the come along, put a 4x4 to span 4 trusses above the hole, secured the chain to the 4x4 and attached my come along. I had enough room to raise the engine above the bilge where I put a couple of 2x10s across and set the engine down on them. I pulled it as a unit, with the coupler housing attached. I couldn't get it high enough to pull the boat out from under it but I didn't need to do that anyways, I did the work inside the boat.
> BTW, the weight didn't even crack the plaster, the ceiling didn't droop at all. I left the 4x4 up there in case I have to do it again. Try not to change your mount adjustments while you're taking it apart and your alignment will be right on. I don't have an alignment tool, I used a driveshaft from an old alpha one I had around and it slid right into the coupler perfectly. I hope I make sense to you, I just took a sleeping pill and can't think very clearly right now..


Well getting a cherry picker. Then figured id lift and rotate to change plugs. Figure i''l remove the screws to the mount support rather then separating the mounts. I have an alignment tool as I check each time drive is removed. I think thats what you meant too. But if they dont get back to me soon I'll end up buying a picker or making a lift as you said. Problem is my boat stands so high it wont go in a garage. A problem I hope to solve this fall.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Sorry took so long to get back. But health issues have screwed me over all summer. Finally able to pull the engine out today, Had it out in less then 30 minutes. Then after tearing off the engine coupler, and the fly wheel there it was a 2" hole staring at me. LOL! a core plug as i figured popped out from the freezing. Well tomorrow I'll scrub out the Bilge since its out. Replace the incoming rubber hose since its easy to get to now. And start reassembling. Had to assemble some shade so I could keep the heat off me. This worked pretty good.
Was happy to see that the oil seals and gaskets weren't leaking. And didn't find any other surprises. But will check it over once more before putting back in. May get it on the lake this week yet. Health allowing. Then a few days on the inlands to test. If all goes ok Erie isnt far off.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Total time from putting up tarp to disassembling the fly wheel and coupler, Cleaning to get ready for new plug and tool clean up 1 and 1/2 hour. Not bad for an old mechanic working alone id say.


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## meats52 (Jul 23, 2014)

viper1 said:


> Total time from putting up tarp to disassembling the fly wheel and coupler, Cleaning to get ready for new plug and tool clean up 1 and 1/2 hour. Not bad for an old mechanic working alone id say.


I would say that's pretty good. Hopefully no more issues come up and you get her out on the lake.


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## brent k (Nov 10, 2013)

Lots of luck viper. Cant wait to hear how she does for ya.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

sure hope this cures your boat problems. at least when I blew my outdrive I was able to get it fixed and get back on the water.
sherman


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

Well, that missing soft plug might explain the water in the bilge!


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## brent k (Nov 10, 2013)

Hey just wondered whats goin on with viper1. Anyone heard anything on progress.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

brent k said:


> Hey just wondered whats goin on with viper1. Anyone heard anything on progress.


he made a post that he was going fishing with his boat. I wish him all the luck in the world on his boat.
sheman


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Well got sick and had to put it off. But I did get it pulled and replaced. Took most of a day. Lots of labor for a 2 minute repair job. Honestly though it was easier then any auto engine I ever pulled. 
Put it on the lake yesterday for about 4 hours. Ran great and water leaks are all fixed. Boat hull seems nice and dry. So no rivet leaks . Did check out transom closer with the engine out and it seemed really good for a boat made in 87. But the floor center section near the doghouse is extremely soft. So floor will be next step more then likely. 
Wiring on this boat is a nightmare. Two many things added and removed leaving lots of extra wire and dead ends. Equipment comes on and off as it feels. So been doing some stripping and rewiring. Made some temporary connections to get things to work. These are just twisted and crimped. I also wrap in a green color tape. As they prove out I remove the tape, crimp and solder as needed. Then mark with a wrap of red tape for needed positive wires. And Blue for needed Negative wires. When down the rest will be removed. Also need to add some switches and a few connection boards. All the electronics run even with ignition off. Makes it easy to forget to turn each off at end of day. So will set up a board controlled by ignition and some more separate instrument switches. A lot to do.
But good news is its ready to fish. But this late in season i'll probably be towing it. 
Hope to see you all on the water and Thanks for asking!
Viper1


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## bajuski (Apr 9, 2004)

viper1 said:


> Well got sick and had to put it off. But I did get it pulled and replaced. Took most of a day. Lots of labor for a 2 minute repair job. Honestly though it was easier then any auto engine I ever pulled.
> Put it on the lake yesterday for about 4 hours. Ran great and water leaks are all fixed. Boat hull seems nice and dry. So no rivet leaks . Did check out transom closer with the engine out and it seemed really good for a boat made in 87. But the floor center section near the doghouse is extremely soft. So floor will be next step more then likely.
> Wiring on this boat is a nightmare. Two many things added and removed leaving lots of extra wire and dead ends. Equipment comes on and off as it feels. So been doing some stripping and rewiring. Made some temporary connections to get things to work. These are just twisted and crimped. I also wrap in a green color tape. As they prove out I remove the tape, crimp and solder as needed. Then mark with a wrap of red tape for needed positive wires. And Blue for needed Negative wires. When down the rest will be removed. Also need to add some switches and a few connection boards. All the electronics run even with ignition off. Makes it easy to forget to turn each off at end of day. So will set up a board controlled by ignition and some more separate instrument switches. A lot to do.
> But good news is its ready to fish. But this late in season i'll probably be towing it.
> ...



Good to hear that your boat and you are both getting better!


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

bajuski said:


> Good to hear that your boat and you are both getting better!


One thing for sure. I'll know her inside out. More then most can say. LOL! And a little more then i wanted.


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## brent k (Nov 10, 2013)

Viper glad to hear shes goin for you. Also glad to hear your health is better. Seems like its kind of been a bad boat year for both of us haha. Lost a whole on my merc on my old boat early in the season. Then finally after messing with it all season got it sold and bought a new boat. I guess its better getting out late in the season than not at all. Wish you all the luck my friend.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

You to Brent! We cant change many things for sure, so no use in sweating them. But we can jump on every chance we get when we can. For me that means some fishing before the snow!


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## brent k (Nov 10, 2013)

I hear ya sir. Im ready for some fishing no doubt about it.


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## bajuski (Apr 9, 2004)

bajuski said:


> You'll find pulling that engine out the easiest one you've ever pulled. I raised mine to replace a sheared starter bolt and replaced the rear seal while I had it out. It took less than an hour I bet to pull.
> The ceiling in my garage is plastered so I just cut about a 8 x 8 inch hole where I wanted my chain for the come along, put a 4x4 to span 4 trusses above the hole, secured the chain to the 4x4 and attached my come along. I had enough room to raise the engine above the bilge where I put a couple of 2x10s across and set the engine down on them. I pulled it as a unit, with the coupler housing attached. I couldn't get it high enough to pull the boat out from under it but I didn't need to do that anyways, I did the work inside the boat.
> BTW, the weight didn't even crack the plaster, the ceiling didn't droop at all. I left the 4x4 up there in case I have to do it again. Try not to change your mount adjustments while you're taking it apart and your alignment will be right on. I don't have an alignment tool, I used a driveshaft from an old alpha one I had around and it slid right into the coupler perfectly. I hope I make sense to you, I just took a sleeping pill and can't think very clearly right now..


Well, here we go again, while fishing Tuesday the coupler started to slip, the coupler splines are worn out so the driveshaft was slipping in the splines under a load. We were able to make it to the dock at just above idle speed. Here's the setup I use to pull the engine. I just tuck the chain inside and plug the hole when finished.


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## bajuski (Apr 9, 2004)

bajuski said:


> Well, here we go again, while fishing Tuesday the coupler started to slip, the coupler splines are worn out so the driveshaft was slipping in the splines under a load. We were able to make it to the dock at just above idle speed. Here's the setup I use to pull the engine. I just tuck the chain inside and plug the hole when finished.
> View attachment 194511
> View attachment 194512


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Looks good. Wel mine never made it to Erie. Health changed winters coming and too much to do. So going to wintererize her soon and store her till spring. If I make it through these health problems I figure on making up some lost time. Not one day on Erie this year.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

just to bad you didn't make it to erie this year. but with your attitude im sure you'll be there with bells on next year. now just get better and get that boat ready for the water. im praying for you viper.
sherman


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