# Muzzleloader bullet question



## Bulldawg (Dec 3, 2007)

I just switched to Hornady XTP 44 cal. 300 grain bullets this year , I was previously shooting the shockwaves and not to impressed with them . After talking to numerous people who have not had very good luck with the shock waves I had to switch. 

My dad is now shooting the same bullets as well. When he sighted his gun in with these bullets he started off with 3" high at 50yds. , therefore putting him dead on at 100yds. He is shooting a little longer barrel than mine but we are shooting the same powder and same grains. But when I shot mine I went 3" high at 50 yds. which put me 6" high at 100 yds. 

Can anybody explain to me why that bullet is still rising that much at 100yds and what would be a happy medium for lowering that bullet without sacrificing my accuracy from 50 to 100 yds.


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## luredaddy (May 25, 2004)

There are those that will disagree, but, if your barrel is absolutely horizontal , when the bullet is fired, its trajectory will immediately begin to drop. If the bullet rises, then drops, it is because the barrel is not horizontal, it is elevated. The drop is more pronounced in a slow moving bullet coming out of a muzzleloader. Gravity is the cause.
John


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree with Luredaddy, it is as he says, line of sight (scope and mounts) as compared to the horizontal plane of the barrel.

I would like to help you but the numbers just don't make sense to me. I can't duplicate anything near what you are seeing with your dads gun or yours with any ballistic calculator I try.

You load should be in the 1600- 1675 FPS range. Hornady gives the bullet you are using a .245 BC ( seems high). Based upon these numbers and using some lower BC's you should be close to 1-1/2" high at 50 and zero at 100.

To be 3" high at 50 and zero at 100 the muzzle velocity would have to be down at 1200 FPS. What powder load are you shooting?

To be 3" high at 50 and 6" high at 100 can not be duplicated at any speed between 1200 and 1900 FPS .


I would suggest you zero for 100 and then shoot 50 and see what you get. You should be around 1-1/2" - 2" high, if you are shooting a 100 gr. equivalent load.


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## Bulldawg (Dec 3, 2007)

Well after I shot the gun at 50 yds and put it 3 " high , I shot it at 100 yds and my dad and I both thought I jerked the gun . But it had to be impossible to pull the barrel up 4" , so I shot again and sure enough it was 6 " high at `100 . I adjusted my scope down 4 clicks and sure enough it went down a inch ! 

I am shooting a Knight Wolverine , and 110 grains of triple seven FFFG loose powder.

My dad has a Knight Rolling Block and shooting 100 grains triple seven FFFG pellets . 

As far as the BC I am not sure on these bullets , my dad has done alot of research on the and knows all the info on them . I do know there are several of these bullets these guys shoot out of there muzzleloaders. There are 40 , 44, and 45 calibers and from a general concensus everyone likes the 45 cal. I myself like the 44 cal . They are a little longer bullet unlike the 45 cal . and the 44 cal . 240 grain doesnt group worth a crap out of my gun.

I am going to try and shoot it again this week and do just as you said lundy . Dead on at 100 , then go back to 50 and see where it is at ! Thanks John and Lundy .


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## CasualFisherman (May 21, 2004)

Bulldawg said:


> Well after I shot the gun at 50 yds and put it 3 " high , I shot it at 100 yds and my dad and I both thought I jerked the gun . But it had to be impossible to pull the barrel up 4" , so I shot again and sure enough it was 6 " high at `100 . I adjusted my scope down 4 clicks and sure enough it went down a inch !
> 
> I am shooting a Knight Wolverine , and 110 grains of triple seven FFFG loose powder.
> 
> ...


Are you sure about the yardages? What type of scope mounts do you have? There would have to be 3-4" from muzzle to line of sight to get those kind of numbers. I don't think even the see through mounts would be that high but maybe.


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

Bulldawg said:


> Well after I shot the gun at 50 yds and put it 3 " high , I shot it at 100 yds and my dad and I both thought I jerked the gun . But it had to be impossible to pull the barrel up 4" , so I shot again and sure enough it was 6 " high at `100 . I adjusted my scope down 4 clicks and sure enough it went down a inch !
> 
> I am shooting a Knight Wolverine , and 110 grains of triple seven FFFG loose powder.
> 
> ...


well that is 2 diferent loads 2 pellets only equal out to about 80 grn of powder drop your charge down to 80 or 90 with the loose and see what happens or change your scope to shoot lower


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

keep in mind, you dont need to jerk the barrel 4" high to get the bullet to move 4" high


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

I know with some muzzleloaders you should swab the barrel after every shot if you are sighting it in............the dirtier the barrel gets the more "off" your shot will be............just a thought try swabbing the barrel after every shot until you get it sighted in !!


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## saugeyesam (Apr 20, 2004)

can you use pellets out of your gun? if so use the 2 50grain 777 drop down to the 240 grn bullet sight in at 1 in high at 50 yards you should be about half inch high at 100 yards if that doesn't work try replacing the scope.


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## buckeyeguy (Aug 20, 2006)

I agree with Lundy that the ballistics don't add up. I used to shoot the Hornady XTPs as well and although I killed deer with them, I was not impressed with their performance. This year I switched to 200 gr Shockwaves and noticed better groups on paper and less recoil with the lighter slug, however, I have not shot a deer with them yet so we'll see how that goes.

One other thing I thought of that probably could have a small affect (inch or less) is the primer types. Are both guns 209s? Also, if they are, what type of primers are you using? In two of my inlines, I notice a difference between shotgun and muzzleloader 209 primers. The muzzleloader primers don't seem to burn as hot and I seem to get better powder burn with them. With shotgun primers, I noticed I would get some grits of powder still in the barrel durring cleaning. With muzzleloader primers there are no grits.

One good conclusion to your situation is if you get better GROUPS with 110gr of 777, I would stick with that charge and just lower the scope another 20 clicks.


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## Bulldawg (Dec 3, 2007)

Everything you guys have suggested are great ideas. But I do all those things suggested. I tear the gun down after every shot and and run a patch through twice because it does help tremendously to do that between each shot. I am shooting winchester 209 shotgun primers , but have always shot them with good success. 

As far as the scope being faulty , that is not the case at all . I am using a 3-9 Simmons , and it works great . I have not had any problems with it . Well except for the time I put it on my shotgun and gave myself a nose job !!!!!!!

As far as switching to the 240 grainers , I have shot them before and they dont perform well out of my gun.

As far as my yardages, they were determined by a range finder and I also stepped them off to and from the target.

Also I have shot the Shockwaves since I have shot a muzzleloader and have been successful with them , but was never impressed. Everyone I have talked to say the deer would always a couple hundred yards before dying . I have read in artlicles about that bullet and it was stated that the T/C shockwave performs better at longer distances . With a close range shot the bullet does not expand and mushroom like it should. Not to mention my dad shot a doe with a 200 grain shockwave at 50yds right in the lungs and she ran over 200 yds . Not saying they are bad bullets , but I have heard many good things about the XTP and want to give them a shot this year. 

I think I am going to get it dead on at 100 yds and then step back to 50 yds and see what it does . I will probably even mess with my grains of powder also. 

Realisticly I am comfortable shooting the gun sighted in 6" high at 100yds , but honestly were I hunt I dont have many 100 yd shots. Most are between 50 and 75. But with it being 6" high at 100 yds I wonder what it would do out to 150 yds ? I may have to try it and see what happens before I adjust down to where it should be. Thanks for all the input guys.


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