# How Should I Float?



## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

Okay, my recent smallie addiction has convinced me I need a way to float down the river. Now I need to figure out what to get.

I've never fished from a canoe/kayak. Did some canoeing years ago, so I'm not totally inexperienced, but I'm no expert by any stretch. I like the idea of a solo craft. I plan to be on LMR a lot, but would also be on other rivers and lakes. I'm a budding geezer at 50-something, but still athletic. I'm thinking I want something small and maneuverable, but big enough (I'm 5'11", 225). I was thinking kayak, but I also like the idea of these solo pontoons like sevenx mentioned. Maybe even a float tube?

Obviously, you guys chose yours after some consideration. What are the advantages of one over the others?


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## creekwalker (May 23, 2004)

I don't have experience with the one man pontoons, but I own a float tube, kayak and a canoe. The float tube and canoe mostly collect dust. I use the kayak for floating most everything from lakes and ponds to rivers of all sizes. I use the canoe when I am taking someone else and the float tube on occassion for farm ponds and the like.

I mostly like the yak for its portability (not over long distances) to and from the water and the ability to control it in water including some decent riffles/rapids (although you might want to check the posts over in the funniest dump thread ). I don't carry a lot of tackle on my boat because it is small (Old Town Otter) and I don't want to lose much when I dump it 

I also like the small yak because I can get over the shallowest of riffles by using my paddles like ski poles and pushing myself through it. The bottom of the Otter gives quite a bit when going over rocks. Otherwise, you might opt for a larger yak with more storage and stability. 

Be sure to get some kind of rigging for your yak though. I bought mine without it and had to add it on later so I had some place to strap on dry bags, my pole, etc. I keep all of my tackle in my fly vest. A spray skirt is also pretty handy at times...assuming you get the sit-in kind.

As for size and age, my boat is not ideal  I am 6'0" and 230, so I am pushing the limit on weight in my boat. However, the real problem is when you want to hop in and out of the boat to fish riffles and such. It certainly could be easier to get in and out of these things, but maybe a larger yak would help! I suspect the pontoons would be ideal for these kinds of trips.

There is another thread on the forums here somewhere. Another guy was going through the same decision you are and there were several good posts as I recall.

LittleMiamiJeff is trying to put together a class in Jan for kayakers. I bet if you went to the class, you could try out several models of kayaks to see what suits you. I will probably be there and you are welcome to hop in my boat and try it out.


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

Spinfisher, The pontoon is great way to float and fish. You sit up a little higher and in a comfortable position. You can row, use kick fins or a trolling motor to control the boat. They have ample storage for boxes small cooler etc. You can carry them by yourself. You can accessorise with rod holders a flasher etc. They deflate and the frames break down to fit in any trunk. There are models from light weight backpakers to two and three man rigs. I have a bucks bag High adventure with 9' pontoons. A good boat for the money. They are highly manuverable. Great on still water as well.
The cons are you have to have waders in cold weather. you will get wet. They don't draft as shallow as a yak and most canoe's. And you should have some one else to fish with for river situations or at least someone to pick you up at the end of your float. For my money the most versitle and convienient way to access alot more water. I am on the lmr alot with my boat and love to float and fish from it. Very comfortable on long days.. Hope this helps Send me a pm if you have any questions Ill be happy to help if I can. S


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## BaitBucket (Nov 13, 2005)

> Obviously, you guys chose yours after some consideration. What are the advantages of one over the others?


Hi Charlie,

Yep... actually a lot of consideration!! It'll really pay off after you're floating. I posted a pic here of our kayaks. Sorry they are on a wall and not in the water. We've just never taken pics of them before and right now they are on the wall.  

At 5'11" and 225, you really need to consider the size you'll need if you go kayak. I'm 6' and about 240... and I can roll the top two pictured kayaks in a heartbeat. The bottom kayak is bigger (about 13.5') and has a very flat stable bottom. That's exactly why I chose it. It's actually a two seater black water type boat, converted to a one seater fishing yak. It's very comfortable, has tons of storage area, has been called an overblown barge, and is just what I needed at 54 years old.

Just be careful the one you pick is going to be stable and big enough for safety gear, tackle, rods, baitbucket, livewell, or any other mods you wish to do.

Mark


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## WINNER (Apr 7, 2004)

Baitbucket,
What model of boat is the middle one and where can I get a sweet ass seat like that? I'll give you $10,000 for it.  

I have a Blackwater and that looks similar? Perhaps a Crossover?

You are good to be able to rool that Streak!


Spinfisher,
Try these sites...  

www.paddling.net
www.riversmallies.com

Winner


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## BaitBucket (Nov 13, 2005)

Hi Winner,

Take a look at this link:
http://www.dagger.com/product.asp?link=recthumb
The Red one (wife's) and the Blue one (mine) are both on this link (page). They are the Blackwater models. The red one is a 12.5' and the blue one is the 13.5' two seater.

The seats have all been swapped around. Once I had converted the two seater to a one seater fishing yak, we had a spare seat that I knew I'd never want back in the blue yak. My son had mentioned a few times that he liked the seat in the red yak, and that the one in his Swifty (green) was pretty hard on his back after about an hour or so of fishing. ...Soooo with a little cutting and hacking I swapped the blue yak's spare seat into the red yak and the red yak's (now unused) seat into the green yak. Everyone seems happy with their seating now.  

Long story short, the seat in the red yak is from a Dagger Blackwater, 13.5', two seater. I'm pretty sure Dagger would sell you a seat like this as they seem very easy to get along with!?! Their stuff costs quite a bit, but the quality I've seen has been really good!?
(The seat in the blue yak is the same, just folded down.)

Actually, my wife picked out that "Streak" (red one). She loves it and can really get it cruising over some black water. It's got a skag for cruising and you pull it up on the river for some pretty good maneuverability.

For $10,000 I'll give you all the yaks, all the rigs and all the fishing poles.  

Here's the dealer I used to get these:

BENCHMARK OUTFITTERS
9525 KENWOOD RD. #24
CINCINNATI, OH 45245
Phone: (513)791-9453
Fax: (513)791-0744

Actually, I went to their Clifton (Cincinnati) store (couldn't find that address, but it's on upper Vine St). Either store could order a seat for you.

We have a saying around here.... it's kayak and happy... Kayappy!

Mark


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

Thanks, guys, for all the info. I really want a kayak, but...for fishing the LMR I'm in love with a pontoon boat. I just don't know which one yet. Probably 9-ft. Probably rocker-type pontoons, although a friend told me he prefers the flat pontoons even on the river because they are more stable. The Buck's Bag boats look good. I'm also looking at Water Skeeter, White River (BassPro brand) and Columbia/Trout Unlimited. Anyone know anything good or bad about these? Then, of course, I'll need some sort of rig so my little fisherdog Chevy can ride.


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Spin,
Knowing you're leaning towards pontoons (no experience, so can't give opinion) can say I've seen sevenx's or maybe fishfluge's pontoon, and their pics, sitting up higher would definitely be a huge plus, but other than a better view, fly casting, etc., yak is not deficient.
I paddle a 15'4" Ocean Kayak Prowler, Angler edition.
Was out today, it's a Sit On Top, SOT, vs a Sit Inside Kayak, SIK or SINK 
SOT you don't get in it, you get on it. Mine's very stable, cuts the water very fast, built in rod holders, storage under hatch, shock corded well with room for milk crate I have rigged for 4-5 rods, as well as room for lunch cooler.
You can get a couple of views of it in my gallery littlemiamijeff.

Not saying it's the definitive lmr or lake or Ohio river fishing paddle craft, but have had it on all the above, no complaints, the wind Thanksgiving day did cause me to NOT paddle the Ohio River, but I'd have stayed in w/canoe or pontoon too.

What ever you choose, you're in for a treat!

I went out on LMR this afternoon for 4-5 hours, not a smallie to be had, but still enjoyed paddling up the river for a couple of miles (pulled it through the fast water wading), and then had a great float back down to Bass Island in Newtown.

Get your pontoon, or yak, then teach me how to fish for LMR smallies in the winter! 

TTYL
Jeff


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## BaitBucket (Nov 13, 2005)

Hi All,

I've never been in a one man pontoon or a sot. ....And I won't be giving up my own yak... but it would be really cool to get all these different craft in some water one day all together and trade places a few times, just to get a feel of something different.

I guess I'm also suggesting that this day come sometime when we can get into the water, like late spring or summer. I'm a pretty old guy and I'd hate to have my weenie shrivel up any more than it already is <grin>.

Mark


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Hey you old baitbucket!
That's what this January seminar can do for us, give us all a good look at some of these different craft. Funny you mention actually getting in the river or lake together, I was thinking about that earlier. Great minds think alike!

BTW, the seminar can teach you how to dress so mr. winkie keeps his wink  

Here's a few links for all of us, spinfisher might help you make better informed decision:


http://www.canoekayak.com/

http://ultimatekayakfishing.com/

http://kayakfishingstuff.com/fishing_kayak_sitemap.asp

http://www.nrsweb.com./


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

LMJeff, I checked out the gallery pix of your yak. That is a great setup. A little bigger than others I have seen. Most seem to agree SOT makes a great fishing yak.

Good idea, Bucket. I'd love to be able to compare all the different types of PDFs.

I haven't checked the book specifically, but I don't think there is a rule against my getting a pontoon *and* a yak.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

when I read about all you guy's kayaks, most seem like there as big as a canoe, ( 11-13 ft)so if thats what you need to be happy, why not stick with a canoe? My canoes have always bugged me because of there lengths and the only reason I would steer towards a kayak, would be so I didnt need a trailer or have to slug them up top on the car, but if your liking the bigger yaks, whats the point, a canoe is more stable, allows the same riffle passage, maybe even less since it displaces more water, is equally as manouverable, easier to float longer distances, more comfortable seating (IMHO), have higher weight limits, and better models are probably as light or lighter then the bigger yaks. Im just curious here why you guys went with the yaks over the canoes. I do know the yaks are the trendy thing right now but seriously, whats the advantage of the bigger yaks when if you needed to take someone else, the canoe can easily do for you?? This is why I still use my canoe often. 
On the downside for pontoon boats, I think there great for lakes, ponds but serious floating in a river can be dangerous in them if your not familliar with the water and whats around the next turn, sweepers are notorious for attracting pontoons and having there way with them like tornados and trailer parks!

Just my .02

Salmonid


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## BaitBucket (Nov 13, 2005)

Hi Salmonid,

Great post and ideas. I thought about a few of these when I was looking at yaks but you've covered a lot of bases. Wish I'd have been that wise when I went shopping! We had a canoe back then and the change scared me a little.

I agree with you on a lot of counts... I liked the size and open-ness of our canoe when we had one... my wife wanted to go fast and sleek.. and didn't care about fishing. I wanted to fish and sit and put a lot of stuff in it <grin>. We usually pack cooler, cooler/live well, aeriated bait well/container, all the safety gear, dry bags, net bags, fishing gear, and on and on, but I didn't want to make a sit-on-top (SOT) top heavy with all that stuff, although a lot of people like the SOT yaks.

And I agree many canoes might be more stable then SOME yaks. They are a lot more stable than two of our smaller yaks. Personally, I've never been in a canoe that's as stable as my blue yak (see pic above). I can stand in the thing, and actually do a dance... and it'll go nowhere. I can't flip it standing up. It was a struggle to flip it when I tried a couple summers ago. I had to get in the water and work my a** off to turn it over.

Mine draws very little water ...I've never measured it, but I know I won't be fishing anywhere that's shallow enough to run aground, cause there's only an inch or two of water down there ...and it beaches great for boarding purposes. The bottom is way more flat that any canoe I've owned or seen. I wondered about the flatness when I bought it. Without much keel, would it slide a lot and be hard to steer? Actually, no... but there's a skag in the back you can control from the seat to help directional stability if it's windy out.

As for seating. I don't really value taking anyone with me. I removed the second seat on the blue yak. The seat that remains in there is really comfortable, cushioned, and with a nice back! It's like a fishing seat in a bass boat, except it doesn't swivel and is a little more bucket shaped. It even has a cup holder <grin>. It would be nice to have a swivel seat, but I'm sure it'd never fit into a Sit-In-Kayak (SIK). I'd like to see someone try this with a SOT yak, but it probably wouldn't be very stable then.
Anyway, if I want to take someone else fishing, we either take two yaks or we go in our 16 ft "V" hull. That's a different kind of trip altogether.

As far as weight limits... We've had in excess of 650 lbs in it and it's still a long ways from tipping or sinking. I've had it more than half full of water, with me in it, and not sinking further, and not feeling tipsy at all, although I could, at that point flip it if I wanted to. I was virtually floating <grin>.

I think it's a few lbs heavier than a canoe, but I think it's a little tougher than a wood canoe and doesn't dent as easily as an aluminum canoe. The plastic is really easy to repair, and to modify for stuff like fishing mods. Rod holders are really easy... punch a hole in the top-side, and screw the hold on.

As long as I don't have to give up my yak, I'd really like to try out a pontoon. I've never been in one, but they look like fun <grin>. I can see what you mean about the hazards of a river trip on one, but I have no experience!?!?

I don't think my big fat blackwater yak could be considered agile <grin>, but it did ok on the LMR a couple times. Once I got pinned against a low hanging tree, with about 5 mph of current under me, it didn't even start to flip me under. The water was only about 2.5" deep, so I was barely scared at that point, but I was concerned, and the yak left me completely impressed with it's stability. I just dropped the skag (slowly <grin>) and paddled away.

Honestly, I think canoes are great! And SOT yaks definately have their place, and are probably more widely accepted than a SIK for fishing. It sounds like they'd be great for ocean cause the waves could swamp you in a heart beat in a SIK. I don't do ocean, and most of the time I only do lakes.

Sorry this got so long, but I thought I'd try to address the things you brought up. 

And, I still want to get into one of those one man toons <grin>.
Too many toys... I can't keep up!

Mark


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Salmonid,
Good questions!
I had the Old Town 14.7 first, nice canoe, two people plus gear.
No seat back, could have added one., or two! 
Did buy Coleman cube cooler w/rod holders, for two rods, haven't actually used it in canoe, but will next spring/summer when going dually.
Would need extensive rigging to equal what was standard on Ocean Kayak.
Picked out SOT Prowler Angler, primarily, because it was the only fishing kayak my "awards" site offered. (canoe, yak, fishing combos, pfd's, paddles, cooler, dry bags, etc., come from sales award site, not quite free, but way affordable, and don't come out of my pocket except income tax)
As I've used SOT, even at 15.4', I find it, like Bait Bucket, MUCH more stable than my canoe, I swamped canoe first time out, haven't stood up in yak, but will do so at safety seminar, and next summer when water warms up a tad, more later....... LOL 
And, Yak is only 56lbs, compared to 74 for my canoe, easier on my back!!
Yak has aggressive bow and tail, cuts like a knife through water, fast. Just a little input from paddle makes adjustment to attitude, speed and direction of yak.
Has half-round contour full length of bottom, and sides flare almost to canoe profile in middle, giving great stability. I've had it in Ohio River, East Fork Lake, Little Miami River.
Begged off OR Thanksgiving day, because of wind, would have been blown all over, same w/canoe, pontoon, jon or small v-bottom.
Capacity: you have a great point there. I think mine is rated at 450lbs. Old Town Guide rated close to 900 lbs. I still think I'd take Yak on long trip, even w/load deficit. Has Seat Back, built in rod holders, gasketed hatch area, for dry storage. Has corded area for cooler, bait bucket, tackle box, etc.
Added anchor line tie up, as BB said, drill holes, gorilla glue, silicone sealer, screw it down, tada!
Scuppers allow drainage, and can be stopped, which I recommend so you don't sit in cold water, even w/waders on.
I can put legs over each side from sitting position, and STAND UP in shallow water to wade, either tether yak to my waders and pull it along, drop anchor and come back to it, straddle it, sit down, put legs in foot braces, ready to move on. 
Maneuvers well, not a white water kayak, open water and slow to moderate rivers. WILL BE OCEAN FISHING for stripers next spring, so this is the rig.
I kinda like my yak.
But, IMHO, everyone has their own preferences. Or we'd all be yaking in bright yellow Prowler Anglers!  
I'm not real tall or heavy, so I'd fit even a smaller yak, I'm told the 13' Prowler Angler is even a bit better suited for this area, but it wasn't available to me.
SOOOOOOO,
What were you saying???
Let's do the get together on the LMR or East Fork Lake next year, but let's do this safety seminar in January, we could still get a chance to compare what works for each of us, and learn how to stay alive to enjoy it, get to know each other, have some fun, stay warm, etc.
Jeff


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

http://kayakfishingstuff.com/fishingkayakcomparisons.htm


Spinfisher,
One more chart to take a look at
You can take make and model names and search out specific manufacturer's site for detailed info
Jeff


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## BaitBucket (Nov 13, 2005)

Wow guys, I feel kind of bad about my last post. It sounds a lot like I'm some kind of a kayak sales person with my monthly check riding on my slick talk. I never meant it to come out like that and I appologize!

I would never try to talk anyone into buying a certain yak, particularly if they are happy with their existing boat. Honestly, I was just trying to answer questions, but after re-reading what we've all written, I wonder if even a tenth of it was ever asked <grin>.

Mark


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

No need to apologize, Bucket. I think anyone considering buying one of these types of boats appreciates all the information he or she can get, especially from people who have personal experience.

Thanks for the comparison chart, Jeff. I was aware of that site, but I hadn't seen the chart. Great info for anyone who has narrowed his choice down to a yak.

Meanwhile, I have been doing a *lot* of research, including trying out a couple yaks and a couple pontoons, and reading just about everything I can find about both. There's no way a person can test them all, but the more you learn before buying, the more likely you will be happy with the boat you end up buying.

There is no common denominator when it comes to personal needs: How will the craft be used? For what purpose? On what water? Are you an experienced paddler? Are you generally athletic or would you rather "ride than drive?" Are you looking for high performance, or are stability and storage capacity more important to you? Do you weigh 130 or 300?

Clearly, personal preference and skill level play a large part in a person's opinion of various craft. What is more important? Speed? Manueverability? Storage? Stability? Weight? Weight capacity? And on and on.

The one thing, though, that interests everyone when it comes to a vehicle that floats, is stability. But even stability is a subjective thing. I read this somethere: "The same boat that is a skittish, threatening death trap for one person may be a stodgy and boring barge to an experienced extreme paddler." You can never be sure of the personal preferences of someone describing a boat. Someone who really likes his boat will assign his own preferences to the prospective buyer. Sometimes, a salesman eager to sell a boat will tend to emphasize the characteristics he thinks will most appeal to a buyer, whether his boat actually has those characteristics or not.

Furthermore, as all you kayak freaks know, a yak that feels very unstable initially may be far less likely to capsize than one that initially feels more stable--the difference between initial and secondary stability. And beyond the physics of the whole thing, even these are subjective.

One specific thing mentioned in this thread that I think should be questioned is that personal pontoon boats should be used on ponds and lakes and are dangerous craft on a river. In fact, many pontoons are designed and constructed for river use, and some of those specifically for river fishing. They are not only safe, but are maneuverable and very river-worthy. There are lots of pontoons rated for Class III water, and an experienced paddler can safely and capably navigate Class IV. Some are rated better than that, but I'm looking at boats well under $1000. That said, I wouldn't want to be on a whitewater river sitting on a pond pontoon.

Like LMJeff said, if there were only one right way, we'd all be paddling 15-foot yellow yaks. BTW, I think all of you guys who use baitcasting reels should switch to spinning reels, and those who use Shimano should switch to a Quantum Catalyst. And then we should all gather together and fish elbow-to-elbow in the same hole...wearing Simms waders--not those other ones.

Thanks for all the info. Keep it coming until I buy a boat, then stop. After I get something, all I need is for you to agree that I bought the best model of the best type.


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## BaitBucket (Nov 13, 2005)

That is funny <grin>.


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Spin, you said it, I'm game! Name the place and time, we'll ALL BE THERE!  
Kayak/Canoe/Pontoon fisherman nation, we'll put out videos, music, instructional books, do endorsements, WE'LL BE RICH!!!
Oh, yeah, sorry, we do this for fun, recreation.
Don't pick on my shimano's, they're all I can afford!  
If it floats, and can be paddled, let's go for it.
We should do a float this next summer, wackiest floating device you can devise, and you have to catch a fish from it, do a tournament.
After the safety seminar, would need to be coast guard approved, natch.
Jeff


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Ok guys, good points and I just wanted to add some more info here on my old canoe that I always used and recently sold to a friend ( so I can still use it  )
That canoe was the Oldtown 17' 4" Discovery and its really a minature barge, yeah, it was long, but I often took it on guiding trips on local rivers with me in the back and two guys and all there coolers and long fly rods within it. It was a bit heavy, at about 84 lbs I think but had a weight capacity of about 1100 lbs, we often used it as a platform to float all our work supplies down the Mad River on habitat days ( several chainsaws, Pile Drivers, spud bars, tons of cables, clips, handsaws etc.) anyways this boat has absolutley no keel, so it was like 40" wide and I often would stand up in it and look for spawning fish/beds while floating. Now for most rivers, I never had any problems with the length or manuverability but then again, Im pretty seasoned with my canoe skills. others might consider this to trying to park a tractor and trailer in a mini mall parking lot. 

It sounds like what you really need is a drift boat, ( check out www.clacka.com) and funny you mention it, I just happen to have one for sale  ( see my gallery)These boats really fill a rivermans needs.

Salmonid


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

Just goes to show that every boat is perfect for some purpose. Come to think of it, my dad has a couple old aluminum canoes he hasn't used in years. But that's another story: When he was 68 years old, he paddled/portaged from the Black Fork near Loudonville to the Ohio River. That was a month after he rode his bicycle from Perrysville to Winfield, West Virginia--and back!

Salmonid, I did look at those drift boats as part of my search. I think you're right--it would be perfect for my fishing. Problem #1 is I'd like to be able to transport it in my trunk or throw it in the bed of a small pickup. Problem #2 is I'm trying to do this float thing for $500. When I got back into fishing, all I wanted was a new rod and reel and a few lures. I guess everyone knows that doesn't work any better now than it did the last time I got hooked on fishing.


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## BaitBucket (Nov 13, 2005)

Salmonid,

Nice drift boat! I'd really like to have one of those... to many toys <grin>.
Nice looking fish in your gallery too!

I've seen guys on TV guiding fishermen down rivers and always thought that would be one really neat trip some time. Up in the mountains, white water, plenty of sun... and the perfect fly! Wow!

Where do you float that thing?

Mark


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Baitbucket, actually I have floated this thing in a bunch of local areas, the upper GMR above Troy, the GMR below Dayton, 2 different floats on the Stillwater, the Middle LMR, the Whitewater near Brookville and the Mad River near Urbana several times. ( Was supposed to use it to guide folks on the Mad today but they wimped out with the weather)  
It drafts in between 3-4 " of water with three big guys in it, they are very manouverable, way more so then a canoe, but like a yak, they were designed for river floating and if you have a decent sized river, they are mighty comfortable as you can sit or stand when fishing, its the cadilac of river fishing and yes, its what you always see on the big western rivers, I also have floated it in Ky ( Dix and Cumberland Rivers) and the Clinch river in Tennm I plan to get it on the Hiwassee and almost brought it with me Salmon fishing on the Pere Marquette in Michigan, but ended up not bringing it. It weighs about 300 lbs so its moveable but not carryable,so you really need a ramp or to be quite close to the riveres edge when you take it out. I often slide in down the bank when launching it.

Salmonid


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