# Mad River changes



## Sheitown (May 10, 2004)

I'm guessing that I missed this discusion at some point somewhere. But could someone tell me what happened on the upper mad. Sections that curved now go straight and is now void of holes that housed fish. Looks like it was done in the last 12 months or so. What a shame! How was this legal and not stopped? Maybe I'm just chapped. Anyone have any input on this?
thanks in advance.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Check your PM's I have some info for you and depending on where exactly, can get get you more info after research. 
Salmonid


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Sounds like a classic case of channelization. With appropriate after effects, also.


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## Steelhead Fever (Dec 31, 2009)

some oxbow lakes may have formed


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## troutdude (Jul 28, 2008)

A big downside to having one of the only trout streams in the state located smack-dab in the middle of plow country. I know it's a necessary evil, but it always stings to think about the destroyed habitat. I was talking to a farmer this past summer who gave me permission to fish his section of the river. He goes "yeah, we had a big log jam up in there last year but we cut it out. Can't have those.. erodes the banks". I'm thinking "you did WHAT?!!" Of course, he's right, but wow, what a different perspective. Wonder what the Mad looked like back in Simon Kenton's day.


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

Actually log jams would save the banks from eroding. Out west when they do stream improvement, they put in big tree roots into the bank and then fill behind it to improve the bank. That farmer did not know what he was talking about. Any bank that erodes is due to no structure, just dirt that washes away. I remember hearing that they did stream improvement on the upper end of the Mad, which was a straight channel, and they put turns into it with structure. I would not be surprised if those farmers dump into the Mad, so they want a straight channel for it to move.


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## BiteMyLine (Sep 7, 2006)

I don't necessarily agree with you on this. I have witnessed a large log jam near one of my favorite honey holes in another creek I fish. For one, the neighbor of my uncle was a local township trustee and extended his bank 10-20' in some areas for nearly 75yds long with nothing but concrete they would remove working local jobs. Another 75yds north and on the opposite bank a very large log jam has piled up over the past 8 years. Every year I fish this area it is a little different. This area started out as a mid calf depth, with a gravel/rock bottom that held numerous crawdads and minnows. Now there is a 5' deep channel in front of this log jam 20 yds wide and has drastically redirrected the flow in this pool at a 45 degree angle. Although this channel is now one of my favorite and most consistent smallie hotspots, the areas south of this channel have paid the price. Not nearly as many smallies or rock bass hold in areas south of these two area's. Soot and sand is now redirected into deeper pools that once held tremendous amounts of smallies and rock bass.

I'm waiting to see how it changes this year as the spring floods will change these again.


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

I hear what you are saying, but adding 10' to 20' of bank, which sounds like it was extened into the stream, is different than shoring up a bank. When you extend into the stream you are going to change the way the water flows, and also take into account seasonal flooding which changes any stream or river on a yearly basis. So I am trying to understand, are you happy that you have a smallie hole now because of some depth? or are you not happy with what happened down stream, because silt has to settle somewhere, and it's usually at the end of a run. Sounds like someone should not be dumping concrete into a stream anyway, IMO.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

I am still trying to get some answers from the original question but can tell you a few things about the followup conversations on here. First of all, adding concrete rip rap is highly illegal in Ohio, OEPA doesnt allow it except in rare situations and must have permission. Depending on the waterway, some stream banks are goverened by the landowner, some are maintained by watershed entities and others are maintained by govt agencies like Miami Conservancy District or even by Army Corp or Engineers. Lots of grey areas here on who has permission to alter a stream bank. 

As far as the Upper Mad river goes, all the TU work that was done doesn t make any turns in the stream. The stream bed is channelized in a straight channel and the work we did up there had many limitations as to what we could do to add depth to the streambed. The obvious thing would be to deflect the water into the levy but we are not allowed to do that per ACoE who ok'd our permit. What we were allowed to do was to build meanders into the existing stream bed by alternating upstream pointing deflector logs across from one another. this would put small current seems on each side of the channel increasing fish holding areas while also increasing the flow, digging a scour hole and adding woody structures to the stream, but you will notice all logs are at, or under, the base flow so they do not obstruct migrating downstream flowing trees and such. 

A good stretch to see this in action is upstream from Sullivan Rd from the road upstream to the RR Bridge, ( private Property BTW above the RR Bridge) but a fishing easement allowed in the stretch below there, this stretch is referred to as the Watson Beat, named for the recently deceased Roger Watson who owned this stretch as well as the Watson Farm Market out on Rt 68. 

last point is when you channelize a stream or even point a hard riparian zone along 1 side such as concrete rip rap, you speed the water up drastically in 3 ways, 1st way is in the specific channelized area which is obvious, second way is how you effect the stream bed just downstream of a fast chute of channelization, you have sped the water up, you now have more sediment being carried downstream and with that comes lots of sand bars and a wide channel that causes a whole different list of problems. 3rd way which most folks do not realize is that when you channelize an area, the areas directly upstream from the area is also heavily effected as you are "pulling" the water out of that stretch faster then it is intended, this starts the sediment moving and typically will "straighten" the areas above the channelization and leaving it featureless as well. Put all this together and for a rip rapped 1/2 a mile stetch, you may have affected another mile above and below the area making a 2.5 mile stretch featureless and void of fish with the exception of the deep scour hole where the rip rap is located. There are a lot of varibales here but I hope this gives you a bit of insight as to how areas can be affected by simple things such as rip rapping right below a bridge, or along a bend in the stream to protect a road or farmland, or what happens when you channelize 20+ miles of a river. All food for thought here as we ( Mankind) didnt realize the whole picture of devastation that occurs when channelization is done, even at a small scale. 

Salmonid


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## BiteMyLine (Sep 7, 2006)

Although I do NOT like the work done in this area, the landowner did have permission. One year during a very strong flood, it did erode and good amount of his bank, flooded his field causing a total loss of his crops, and partially flooded his basement. Most of the work was done to protect his house, and he did build a mound surounding his field.

With that said I do think that he went overboard and definetely expanded the grey area to his benefit. But he did also die of cancer a few years back after he completed the work. If he were still alive and dumping concrete, I would have definetely began to seek the authorities to force him into cleaning it up.


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