# Are ccw's to easy to get?



## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

In light of the recent tragedy in Oregon, I got to thinking of this in a facebook argument. The original argument was on an assult rifle ban. Someone brought up if more people had ccw's thee tragedy's may not have happened. I got to thinking of my ccw class. There was one person in it who admittley had never held or fired a weapon in his or her life. That is not the kind of person I would want firing rounds in a congested place like a mall. Am I being unfair here? He or she did pass the class. I just think it takes more then 12 hours to teach fire arm safety to someone who has never held or fired a gun. Just wondering what everyones opinion is on this.


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

In Ohio it just takes a few hundred bucks and the time to take the class. You have to demonstrate competency with a weapon but when I did it years ago you didn't have to shoot groups or anything.


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## floater99 (May 21, 2010)

I learned even as a ccw carrier you are not to just open fire at someone.I do think in some cases more fire arms training would help.Having a ccw does not give us police rites.I for one hope I never have to use it(but am glad to have it).I have been around firearms all my life,hunting shooting ect,and RESPECT FIREARMS and my rites to own them.I M O.


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

Your right iron man it is your responsibility as a fire arm owner to practice and learn your weapon. You are also right on the 12 hour class. The person in my class did not seem to adapt as well as yours and frankly it is a little scary to see them pass.

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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Yes, too easy to get.


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

I work in an office of 130 lawyers as a criminal defense investigator, so my advice is solely based on experience not as an attorney.

You cannot shoot at people to protect your property. The ONLY time you can shoot is when you are in fear for your life or the life of another. Aside from in your hose during certain hours (castle rule) you will be arrested and you will have to prove that the circumstances were such that you were in fear for your life. And even more so if you shoot trying to defend the life of another!

I've seen people go to prison because they were to macho to say "I was in fear for me life."

Just me 2c....

A

My wife says I have a fishing habbit....


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

That would, admittedly, be a heck of a spot to put the average CCW carrier into. As far as CCW's being too easy to get, they are for personal protection, which in certain instances might be stressful enough. They should not be considered training for protecting the public against a maniac armed with a rifle in a crowded public space! I suppose the best you could hope for is that the gunman might get distracted by something, and you could sneak up behind him and pump a couple of rounds in his back and put him down.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

So, hypothetically speaking of course, if this same scenario happened but instead was thwarted by a ccw holder in the crowd, he (ccw holder) would be facing criminal charges? Would he have to prove that the gunman had fired at him, or in his direction? What if he was behind the gunman? How exactly would the law handle that? Just curious, because if the ccw holder would be held accountable, then what's the point of even having one?!


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## dock dabber (Mar 20, 2005)

Dont know about shooting anybody in the back, I am sure a crackpot Lawyer would take the position you had a chance retreat and get help. I have a carry permit and was told in training do not shoot in the back, To me it would be a very risky call.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

CCW is for self defence not for killing people. If I was in a room with a man wanting to kill people the more distractions the better. I think some one shooting badly would be better then some one who can shoot and use you as a target. If three or four guns come out odds are most would not shoot but drop his to keep from getting shot. I like my odds with accidental shooting better then being a definite target. And if you keep him busy I'll have time to get mine out and shoot him. Because we do shoot all the time.
Also the only ones I ever heard complain about it being to easy is the ones who dont have them or want them. And thats cool too! As long as they dont tell me no!


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

Trust me viper I have mine and rarely leave home without it. I am not complaining just wandering if more should go into being able to obtain it.

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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

nicklesman said:


> Trust me viper I have mine and rarely leave home without it. I am not complaining just wandering if more should go into being able to obtain it.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Glad you do. But i think we need to get better acceptance of the law instead of more restrictions. Its up to the individual to practice and learn. And our system is a lot better then most. In pa it is so easy any one but a bad criminal can get one. And its even easier else where. If you live in Ohio you can get one by mail even from pa.
As far as how good some one is,well its their benefit to be able to defend them selfs. I know full well where every bullets going to end up whenI shoot. LOL! Or else I dont!


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

From some of the things I was seeing, the mall where this incident happened was a no carry zone. If you're abiding by the law, then no, a ccw may not have changed anything. 

As for the average person with a ccw who only did the state requirements, no I don't think they have the adequate training to offensively engage an active shooter in a situation like this. Exit stage right and protect your family in the process.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

viper1 said:


> If you live in Ohio you can get one by mail even from pa.


Not true any longer. Applications for out of state licences in PA must be applied for in person. This changed over a year ago.


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## IGbullshark (Aug 10, 2012)

i am actually working on an article of sorts concerning CCW and was planning on posting it tomorrow once i finish. this is an important topic and as a CCW holder, there are some things i think other CCW holders need to think of (its mostly concerning the law aspect).


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

viper1 said:


> Well, that would be wrong. I have mine and I am not complaining about it. The op ask a simple question if they are too easy to get? Simple answer from me was yes.
> Many of the classes are no more than money mills. A few of the people that went through the class I was in had no right to be carrying at the end of the class. You can't shove that much information into a person in 7-8 hours and expect them to be able to handle that much responsibility when the time comes. Training should be taken alot more serious. I know all classes are not like this but I have talked to several people over the years who have gone through the course and were shocked at how easy it was.


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## Bonecrusher (Aug 7, 2010)

Here is an email that I sent to my CCW instructor. Incident happened 12-9-2012. 

"Today was the day that I had to use my weapon. Fortunately it was
against an animal and I did not have to kill it. If I didn't have my
Glock I would be dead or severely injured right now. I went to Church
this morning and was running late. I thought about not wearing my gun
as I was just going to Church and back. I decided to take the extra
minute and put it on. While at Church my Mom asked me to go to the
cemetery with her and put a wreath on my Grandparents grave. After the
service I went to the cemetery a few minutes ahead of my parents and
sister. I got out of the car and was walking around looking at head
stones and I heard a couple dogs bark. These are the typical dogs that
are always across the road and bark once in a while but they never
leave the yard. I looked down at a headstone and back up at the dogs
and saw them coming at me pretty fast. Three dogs that looked like a
cross between a lab and a Rot.

I had already pulled my weapon and they stopped about 20 feet from me.
One stood in front of me and one on each side. I was yelling at them
as loud as I could as I tried to step backward towards my car. Every
step I took they would come closer. No one from the house across the
road could hear me yelling. I stood there yelling for what felt like
an hour. The dogs continued to growl out at me in full attack position
heads down, hackles raised and teeth showing. Finally 2 of them turned
and walked the 300 yards back to the house. The biggest one was not
budging and we stood there squared off for another 5-6 minutes. I kept
trying to get to my car. He kept coming closer. I love dogs and did
not want to kill him.This is the first time I every felt threatened by
one. I shot once in the ground directly in front of him and the dirt
that flew hit him right in the face. It scared him enough to go back
towards his house. He never left the edge of the road in his own yard.
He stayed barking at us the entire visit. My parents finally got there
and I kept an eye on the dog and were able to place the wreath.

If my son would have been with me I would not have hesitated to shoot
all three of them the minute they circled. If I would have been an
elderly person or a child. I am confident they would have attacked.

After I left I called the Sheriffs office and made a report and asked
they go check them out. Just goes to show you it isn't always a dark
alley or a bank that the need for a weapon arises. Thanks for the
lessons and everything you taught to me. You saved my life today."



The day your gonna need your gone won't be a place you will ever have thought about or prepared for...


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

bobk said:


> Well, that would be wrong. I have mine and I am not complaining about it. The op ask a simple question if they are too easy to get? Simple answer from me was yes.
> Many of the classes are no more than money mills. A few of the people that went through the class I was in had no right to be carrying at the end of the class. You can't shove that much information into a person in 7-8 hours and expect them to be able to handle that much responsibility when the time comes. Training should be taken alot more serious. I know all classes are not like this but I have talked to several people over the years who have gone through the course and were shocked at how easy it was.


This was my experience exactly. Seemed like a money maker.

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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

For what its worth, heres my opinion
Under the 2nd Amendment of United States Constitution we have the right to keep and bear arms.

If you choose to open carry in Ohio, you are not required to undergo any training or testing. I believe that carrying a firearm is a right not a privilege. Weather open or concealed, I do not believe the Government (state, local or federal) should require training, testing or any other restrictions on this right. The exception would be for felony convictions or in the case of mental instability.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

BigV said:


> The exception would be for felony convictions or in the case of mental instability.


I agree it's our right. But...... how do you expect the country to know if a person has a felony or is a mental case without doing a background check which is part of the course? I'm all for less Government but some things we do need better control over. Bad people should not carry guns and the only way check them out is to do a check on them. There are people in this country that don't deserve the right to carry. 
Just throwing it out there BigV as conversation. For the most part I always agree with your stance on these type of topics.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

I have mixed emotions on this topic. I agree that the training could be a little more in depth. (Even though my instructor was awesome. Thanks for letting me in on it Steve) However when I applied for my ccw after taking the required course I was "flagged" for traffic warrants out of MO. Apparently shortly before I moved (almost 5 years ago at the time) I was cited by a traffic signal camera and never knew about it because I now live in OH. There was also a few traffic cases that my attorney "took care of" as far back as 2000. The charges were plead down to non moving violations and a higher fine was paid to avoid points on my DL. (Traffic attorneys are very common in MO.) Some how the cases for the moving violations were still showing active with bench warrants. From my understanding when you are stopped and your name is ran, it shows both cases together which lets the officer know that the open cases are obsolete. Well when the lady at the sheriff office recieved my background check from MO I was denied my CCW due to outstanding traffic warrants... 

My gripe was that for one, the camera ticket is not enforceable in the state of MO and that I was denied my ccw because the lady did not understand how to read the report. I am stilling straightening this mess out with the State of MO and recieving little understanding from the State of OH...

Long and short, the training could be more, but denying ccw due to traffic offenses is nothing more than big brother trying to get another dime out of ya.


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

bobk said:


> I agree it's our right. But...... how do you expect the country to know if a person has a felony or is a mental case without doing a background check which is part of the course? .


back ground checks are not part of the course!!!! It is your responsibility to know whether you can pass the back ground check or not....that is after the course given at the sheriffs office when you turn your paper work in....if you can't pass it will be your waste of money to take the course...
I got a Utah permit too and that took well over a month for that back ground check(FBI extensive check)....the Ohio I turned in my paper work around noon and got the call it was ready first thing the next morning ....I guess with no record except a couple traffic tickets it sailed right through


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

No the background check is not part of the course but it is part of getting the ccw. That was my point.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

ironman172 said:


> I guess with no record except a couple traffic tickets it sailed right through


I thought it would be the same for me, never been in any real trouble. Just traffic crap, no dui, nothing worse than speeding.

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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Anyone remember how much training you had to have to get a drivers license? Not much. Good thing cars aren&#8217;t more dangerous than gun. Oh, wait..... 
This is a bunch of stink about nothing. How many times have you heard of a CCW holder accidently hurting themselves or someone else while defending themselves? I&#8217;ve personally never heard of it. I think maybe some of you are thinking a little too highly of yourselves, no offense. Just because someone isn&#8217;t as familiar with guns as you are, is no reason they shouldn&#8217;t be able to defend themselves.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

bobk said:


> Ihow do you expect the country to know if a person has a felony or is a mental case without doing a background check which is part of the course? .


A background check is NOT part of the course. Anyone (felony or mentally unstable person) can take the class. The background check comes with the application process. 



bobk said:


> Bad people should not carry guns and the only way check them out is to do a check on them. There are people in this country that don't deserve the right to carry.


I agree Bobk..., But how do you propose to keep the guns out of the criminal(s) hands? Do you really think the "bad guy" will go and attempt to purchase a gun by legal means? They will steal it, or purchase one from someone else that has stolen one. Making it more difficult for law abiding citizens like you and me will not make it more difficult for the criminal to get a gun.


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

M.Magis said:


> Anyone remember how much training you had to have to get a drivers license? Not much. Good thing cars aren&#8217;t more dangerous than gun. Oh, wait.....
> This is a bunch of stink about nothing. How many times have you heard of a CCW holder accidently hurting themselves or someone else while defending themselves? I&#8217;ve personally never heard of it. I think maybe some of you are thinking a little too highly of yourselves, no offense. Just because someone isn&#8217;t as familiar with guns as you are, is no reason they shouldn&#8217;t be able to defend themselves.


I actually had 6 months of training one week of drivers ed. No one said anything about not being able to defend themselves maybe just a touch more training. I hear of people accidentally shooting themselves all the time. Ever heard of Plaxico Burris? I know there are isolated incidents but they do happen. I also personally know a store owner who shot himself in the leg trying to eject a cartridge. He is now facing charges for discharging a fire arm with in city limits. It was just a question.

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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

I surely don't want people not familiar with guns toting them around and playing law. With that being said that is not the intention of a ccw. A ccw does not give you permission to buy guns it only gives permission to conceal. Putting more restrictions on how we get our ccw will have absoutly nothing to do with who owns guns.
Please no more restrictions!


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

lotaluck said:


> I surely don't want people not familiar with guns toting them around and playing law. With that being said that is not the intention of a ccw. A ccw does not give you permission to buy guns it only gives permission to conceal. Putting more restrictions on how we get our ccw will have absoutly nothing to do with who owns guns.
> Please no more restrictions!


My question was about maybe some more training to be able to get their ccw. I in no way feel there should be more restrictions on owing guns,just a little more training to carry them..

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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

nicklesman said:


> I actually had 6 months of training one week of drivers ed.


Thats great, but I said *had to have*. To get a drivers license takes a few hours of class and passing a test. Thats all thats required. All one has to do to actually drive is turn 15 and automatically get a learners permit. Thats a lot scarier to me than a CCW carrier not getting the proper training.


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

M.Magis said:


> That&#8217;s great, but I said *had to have*. To get a drivers license takes a few hours of class and passing a test. That&#8217;s all that&#8217;s required. All one has to do to actually drive is turn 15 and automatically get a learners permit. That&#8217;s a lot scarier to me than a CCW carrier not getting the &#8220;proper&#8221; training.


I agree with you that it is scary. It is a whole separate issue though. To me they are both scary issues. Accidents happen with both topics. I just think a little more requirements should go into a ccw. A little more fire arm safety and range time. I in know way want to interfere with someones right to own a fire arm or protect themselves. I don't want to take the ccw away either,but when someone can not hit a plate at 30 ft I time some more training should be in order

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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

M.Magis said:


> That&#8217;s great, but I said *had to have*. To get a drivers license takes a few hours of class and passing a test. That&#8217;s all that&#8217;s required. All one has to do to actually drive is turn 15 and automatically get a learners permit. That&#8217;s a lot scarier to me than a CCW carrier not getting the &#8220;proper&#8221; training.


Your also right I was thinking of 15 year olds not people over 18. I think you still have to take a written test at 15 and drive with a licensed adult.

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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

I teach CCW, and think that the permit is easier to get than it is to keep. The class SHOULD BE just the beginning of your firearms training. I know myself and several other trainers that offer continuing education at very reasonable cost. The CCW class is like drivers education, it is enough to get you started and you should learn through practice and experience after that. All too often a shooter gets the permit and a gun and does not keep working on the continuing education aspect.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Huntinbull said:


> I teach CCW, and think that the permit is easier to get than it is to keep. The class SHOULD BE just the beginning of your firearms training. I know myself and several other trainers that offer continuing education at very reasonable cost. The CCW class is like drivers education, it is enough to get you started and you should learn through practice and experience after that. All too often a shooter gets the permit and a gun and does not keep working on the continuing education aspect.


Now thats a statement I can agree totally with.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

nicklesman said:


> My question was about maybe some more training to be able to get their ccw. I in no way feel there should be more restrictions on owing guns,just a little more training to carry them..
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I understand what you are saying but my point is Ohio is a open carry state. Ccw or not people can carry. The class is just to conceal. Let's just say they did require more training for the ccw holders. Take one guess what is next, yep you guessed it more training to open carry and then comes training just to purchase. 
My concern is not with law abiding carrying citizens with too little training but rather the people carrying illegally. Seems there's more talk on the news nowaday about making it tougher to buy, own, and carry firearms for the average law abiding people than there is about what we are going to do about
The real problem. And that problem is the people owning and buying guns illegally. Good subject by the way and you have to understand not everyone is going to agree on such a sensitive subject.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

lotaluck said:


> I understand what you are saying but my point is Ohio is a open carry state. Ccw or not people can carry. The class is just to conceal. Let's just say they did require more training for the ccw holders. Take one guess what is next, yep you guessed it more training to open carry and then comes training just to purchase.
> My concern is not with law abiding carrying citizens with too little training but rather the people carrying illegally. Seems there's more talk on the news nowaday about making it tougher to buy, own, and carry firearms for the average law abiding people than there is about what we are going to do about
> The real problem. And that problem is the people owning and buying guns illegally. Good subject by the way and you have to understand not everyone is going to agree on such a sensitive subject.


If you want a stop the illegal carriers or the illegal guns make it illeagle Huh? Works great for drugs and every thing else. Make restrictions on guns and the out laws and illegals will be the only ones with them.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

viper1 said:


> If you want a stop the illegal carriers or the illegal guns make it illeagle Huh? Works great for drugs and every thing else. Make restrictions on guns and the out laws and illegals will be the only ones with them.


I will have to disagree with you on this one Viper. I can't imagine legalizing firearm sales to felons or illegals.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

lotaluck said:


> I will have to disagree with you on this one Viper. I can't imagine legalizing firearm sales to felons or illegals.


Didnt say that. I said out lawing guns will only cause illegals and criminals to have them. Look at all the things that are illegal and hasn't stopped any thing. Sorry if im not clear. Some times My mind knows what it wants to say but my fingers get people confused. Old age I believe.
I would never agree with arming criminals! Now opening a season on child and animal abusers, rapists and killers I might go along with. As it seems our legal technics have failed so badly.


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

lotaluck said:


> I understand what you are saying but my point is Ohio is a open carry state. Ccw or not people can carry. The class is just to conceal. Let's just say they did require more training for the ccw holders. Take one guess what is next, yep you guessed it more training to open carry and then comes training just to purchase.
> My concern is not with law abiding carrying citizens with too little training but rather the people carrying illegally. Seems there's more talk on the news nowaday about making it tougher to buy, own, and carry firearms for the average law abiding people than there is about what we are going to do about
> The real problem. And that problem is the people owning and buying guns illegally. Good subject by the way and you have to understand not everyone is going to agree on such a sensitive subject.


My reply to this is in an open carry situation you know who has a gun. You can choose to avoid them. In a concealed case you have no idea. Maybe i am reading to far into this,I hope I am. I think some of it may have been my class. It just seemed like it did not focus to much on safety and more on the do's and don'ts. I am pleased with the responses and opinions I am getting on this thread.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

nicklesman said:


> My reply to this is in an open carry situation you know who has a gun. You can choose to avoid them. In a concealed case you have no idea. Maybe i am reading to far into this,I hope I am. I think some of it may have been my class. It just seemed like it did not focus to much on safety and more on the do's and don'ts. I am pleased with the responses and opinions I am getting on this thread.
> 
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


You are correct there. We were told by our instructor that the ccw class was to t make sure we understand the laws to carry and to make sure we were competent and understand the firearms. 

I would hate to see more restrictions or training required as I think that would deter more law abiding citizens from registering. I personally would like to see 
it as simple and easy as possible to obtain with a simple background check.


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## jhetricky7 (Mar 10, 2012)

I do not own a hand gun or have CCW, but if I did and was in a place to stop some sick "F " by killing him to save the lives of others. I will take the prison time that may come from me actions. Sitting in a cell knowing you saved lives is ok with me. What other chose is there. Run way and let it happen. I have been a hunter and have shot hand guns. I will be getting a gun and CCW a soon as money will let me. I was at work crying, framing a house after I got a call from my mother about the Kindergarten class shooting. I have a 6 year old boy in Kindergarten and a 5 year old boy in pre school. Work did not end fast enough today so I could get home for my boys. They asked why I was crying when I got home and grabbed them both and hugged them. Told them I hit my finger with hammer at work and it hurt, it was true so didn't have to lie to them.


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

jhetricky7 said:


> I do not own a hand gun or have CCW, but if I did and was in a place to stop some sick "F " by killing him to save the lives of others. I will take the prison time that may come from me actions. Sitting in a cell knowing you saved lives is ok with me. What other chose is there. Run way and let it happen. I have been a hunter and have shot hand guns. I will be getting a gun and CCW a soon as money will let me. I was at work crying, framing a house after I got a call from my mother about the Kindergarten class shooting. I have a 6 year old boy in Kindergarten and a 5 year old boy in pre school. Work did not end fast enough today so I could get home for my boys. They asked why I was crying when I got home and grabbed them both and hugged them. Told them I hit my finger with hammer at work and it hurt, it was true so didn't have to lie to them.


I hear you my daughters are 2.5 and one and they both got big hugs and kisses. Such a tragedy. 

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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

They are easy to get if you have a flawless background. And it depends on which state your in. Guns arent the solution to everything and there still is a fine line on where and when you can use it


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## JohnPD (Jun 12, 2012)

I don't normally chime in on topics like this, because the only form of gun control I like, is the gun I'm in control of. But if one can legally obtain a gun and pass the Brady law background check at a licensed gun shop/dealer etc., then if you pass your ccw class, you will get your ccw, no reason to deny it if you already passed the Brady law background check. How can someone deny you the right to conceal carry once you pass the ccw class if you weren't denied the right to legally purchase a hand gun? Unless you got into some sort of trouble between the Brady check and the ccw check you shouldn't be denied a ccw. Different story if you purchased your gun through a private party, or at a gun show where no Brady law check was necessary, then once you take your ccw, you might not get the ccw if your background isn't all that clean.


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