# Kel Tec's New 30 Rd 22 Mag Pistol



## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I've never owned a Kel Tec but this will prob be my 1st.

I think I saw where full MSRP was $400.


http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pmr30.htm


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## fisherman5567 (Jan 3, 2007)

sweet! i want one!


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## Skunkedagain (Apr 10, 2004)

No doubt. Looks like fun!


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

30 rounds of .22 mag?!?! Sweet! [email protected][email protected][email protected]


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

does it do long rifle too? or mag only?


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

.22 mag only (it's a semi auto and the .22 lr and .22 win mag are entirely different)


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

H2O Mellon said:


> I've never owned a Kel Tec but this will prob be my 1st.
> ]


would have to agree, i have been reading about it for the last couple months on some blogs i read, very interested!


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## ohiobassman (May 18, 2005)

i will be buying one of these myself. i would like to have the fn 5.7 but this is a much cheaper alternative. weighs only 13.6 oz unloaded. i cant wait to get one but i think it will be coming out in May.


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

talked to one of the salesmen at buckeye outdoors this afternoon and he seemed to think it wouldnt be available until june or july........


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## BigChessie (Mar 12, 2005)

This is a remake/upgrade of the earlier Grendel .22 WMR pistol, also designed by Nils Kelgren (of Kel-tec). That gun, unfortunately, came out right at the time of the Clinton gun ban, effectively knee-capping it. (EG what's the point of a 30 round WMR pistol that's limited to 10 round mags?). 

This new gun is more or less the same gun, with fiber optic sights, an upgraded look, and a frame-rail. 

Probably the most innovative thing here is the magazine, which uses an interesting divider separating the rims into two stacks, but leaving the bullet noses into one. The gun feeds the two stacks into dual-feed ramps like a M4 .223 semi-auto rifle. That's how you get 30 rimfire rounds into a non-banana shaped magazine. 

Anyway, cool as it may be, I consider this largely to be a novelty pistol. For the overall size package, you can get a far more effective defensive gun than one in .22WMR. The .22WMR round itself is really intended for use in a RIFLE, so I don't see a lot of use for this from a pistol (eg for hunting). 

Edit #1:
Here is the old Grendel p30, the precursor to this new PMR-30:









If/when Kelgren puts out a CARBINE version of this gun, then I will start to get interested. 

Edit #2: Ballistics?

For what its worth, Kel-Tec claims 1230 fps muzzle velocity from this PMR-30 for a 40 grain .22 WMR round. Compare to about 2000 fps for the same round from a rifle, and you'll see the rifle gives you literally 60% more velocity and 160%(!) more kinetic energy from the same round. Again, the .22 magnum round is just meant for rifles. From pistols, the extra unburned powder just gets converted into a big muzzle flash. 

Now lets compare to the best commonly available 40 grain .22 long rifle ammo, the CCI "Velocitor". Note that in my opinion, this is a perfectly fair comparison since Velocitor ammo costs about the same or less than ordinary .22 magnum ammo, (about $8 a box for Velocitor vs $8-10 a box for any .22 magnum). 

The velocitor should yield you about 1100 fps from a pistol and about 1400 fps from a rifle. Note also that the Velocitor uses a supposedly excellent hollowpoint bullet, designed to offer good expansion and weight retention for hunting. 

In other words, the best .22LR from a RIFLE is still going to outperform the .22 magnum from a PISTOL. 

Comparing pistol-to-pistol, the .22 magnum is more powerful than .22LR, but really, not that much so (1230 fps vs 1100 fps, give or take), and in my opinion, there isn't enough BALLISTIC advantage for me to bother with a .22WMR pistol. 98% of the time, whatever I wanted to do with this, I could do just as well with a cheaper .22LR.


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

dont plan on hunting with it or using for defense, have plenty other options there, just looks like a fun little plinker, and much different then anything else i own.


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