# Private Property!!



## Fishing_Chef (Jul 6, 2006)

I have a question about local rivers.....

Tonight I went fishing with a buddy and we went to the Olentangy River right above the Home Road bridge.

on the bank a little bit up from the bridge is a sign on the bank on a tree that says private property.
Does that mean we cannot wade up past that sign or does that mean we cannot stand or go on the bank? 

I would think that individuals do not own the river as long as we do not go up on the bank onto their property..... it was my understanding that the Army corps of engineers controlled the river itself... anyone know?

While I am at it has anyone waded the river north of Home road, and know any good spots to park and fish?

any and all help welcome.


Thanks and happy fishing.


----------



## BrianSipe17 (Aug 5, 2006)

I am pretty sure the land under the river is private property. You would have to get permission to wade or bank fish. On the flip side, I think you can fish from a boat/canoe/float without landowner's permission due to you're not standing on any land


----------



## crawdiddy (Apr 10, 2006)

I know exactly where you talk about. Parking there isn't the easiest. If you are IN (wading/canoeing,etc)the river you have ZERO to worry about. Unless you're shooting off fireworks or something dumb.


----------



## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

I'll try and make it short...But whenever this question comes up my blood pressure goes sky high....  

In OHIO, if the land owner owns land on BOTH sides of the river/creek he literally "owns" the river bed. Anyone who sets foot on the river bed is trespassing...However he/she *does not* own the water that passes through the river bed..So as long as your not touching the bottom (belly boaters, canoes..etc) you can fish as long as you please.

This is not the case in many other States!!!!!! Most States consider any navigadible waterway public property. In addition 5-10 ft of the immediate riparian zone is typically designated public property as well. Heck Michigan even allows you to get out of the river and walk through some ones back yard if the given section of water is too deep to wade!

Now here is the big question: Where is the property line drawn when a individual only owns property up to the bank (I.E. only on one side of the river)?

I have never been able to get a definitive answer on this question......but there is one thing I know for sure...*If you don't own both sides of the bank..you don't own the river(bed)!*

In regards to your question


Fishing_Chef said:


> Does that mean we cannot wade up past that sign or does that mean we cannot stand or go on the bank?


If the sign was only posted on ONE side of the bank then you are ok to wade on through....just don't go onto the bank/get out of the water on that side.

If the signs are posted concurrently on either side of the bank I would head in the other direction.  

Here is the Ohio revised code pertaining to Criminal Trespassing..I would keep a copy in my tackle box but I know it by heart  ..remember, you aren't trespassing unless you have been NOTIFIED you are on private property!..If you are not notified (via signage,fences..etc) you are NOT TRESPASSING!
Most people in Ohio (law enforcement included) disregard these obvious provisions.

(available @ http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishin...n-h.htm&cp=PORC)

§ 2911.21. Criminal trespass.

(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following: 

(1) *Knowingly* enter or remain on the land or premises of another; 

(2)* Knowingly* enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard; 

(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, ]as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access; 
(4) *Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.* (B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency. 
(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such authorization was secured by deception. 
(D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal trespass, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. 
(E) As used in this section, "land or premises" includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another, and any separate enclosure or room, or portion thereof. 



LOL..Just realized this same question has been addressed in another forum!..Still felt good to get it all out though  Trespassing when standing on the streambed?


----------



## crawdiddy (Apr 10, 2006)

I need to move to michigan so I can walk thru peoples back yards when the river is too much!


























not


----------



## crawdiddy (Apr 10, 2006)

if a sign is posted, that means notifiied. its usually the white sign with red lettering that starts with "No Hunting tresspassing, fishing, etc, etc,etc". It sucks when people HAVE to post these signs.


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> I have never been able to get a definitive answer on this question......but there is one thing I know for sure...If you don't own both sides of the bank..you don't own the river(bed)!


 i'm not gonna get into this debate again(hopefully,LOL)but i do have one question about the above quote.if you've never been given a definitive answer,how then,can you know "for sure"?


----------



## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

All I am going to say is this and this is the way I do it. If I get into a river or stream from public property and get out of a river or stream through public property, I will wade whatever stretch I want. If there is a No Tresspassing sign on the bank I just don't get out of the water. If an issue arises and they want to do something about it I would be more than happy to see what a law enforcement offical has to say. Maybe then I could get a true answer. The sad thing is they probably don't know the answer either. As long as you are fishing, not doing anything illegal, and aren't on the bank where the sign is posted I would say you are fine. Who is to really say where their property ends and begins. Many, many people don't have accurate boundries of thier land, they just assume it goes so far. I wouldn't worry about it personally, as long as your in the water I would say your ok.

Jake


----------



## SweetFeet (Aug 7, 2006)

95% of landowners won't care that you're wading through their 'property.' But I have some run-ins...if there's a no tresspassing sign, I will respect that - obviously I'm not welcome there. But, if a landowner isn't going to take the time to tell me when I'm on his property, then my assumption is that he won't mind...most of the time that's true.

If you do have a run-in with a landowner, claim ignorance and then politely ask if you can have permission. If they say 'no,' just say thanks and walk away. Rules is rules, and any responsible fisherman would make an effort to respect that.


----------



## duckboat (Apr 14, 2004)

I have run into this problem on the Scioto. I have been told by a couple of people @ the ODNR, that if somebody owns property on one side of the river then they own the stream bed half way across it. They refered to it as an imaginary line that splits the river in half. So, if there is private property on one side and public on the other, just stay on the public side of the river. They also said that it is up to the land owner to press charges. If the land isn't posted the wildlife officer will usually try to talk the land owner out of pressing charges. Of course, if you enter the river on private posted property without permission, they will arrest you. In my experences, if somebody accuses you of trespassing, appoligize and move on and there won't be a problem. You can always check the property line at a later date. If it is a great fishing/hunting spot show up in a canoe or float tube next time.


----------



## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Ok, here are some direct answers that our Trout Unlimited Chapter has recd regarding stream ownership /trespassing.

If I own property that shares a stream boundary, it typically is written on the deed that the property line is always the center of the stream no matter how much the channel changes. 

Correct, the landowners own the land under the stream and pay taxes for such land.

Correct, the State owns the water and the transient wildlife that come and go on top of the property

Correct, you may NOT wade or bank fish in Ohio like you can in other states.doing so may get you arrested wether its posted or not. Typically you will not get arrested unless asked toleave and you refuse or it can be proven you "knowingly" went onto a private property. ( which is hard to prove) but walking right past a Posted sign may get you a ticket.

Ok, now we know that can not wade but technically in Ohio, you can NOT fish from a boat either or Anchor, both constitutes "Hunting with out Permission" since in Ohio , the state allows the landowner to decide who has permission to hunt its wildlife ( think about deer hunting-same philosophy here) State owns the transient wildlife, but allows landowners the opportunity to decide who can hunt or fish on the property. 

The game warden and sherrifs dept, will typically not pursue you unless the landowner calls them. ( because the dispute is on Private Property) 

Here is where the boating question gets sticky, in Ohio, Rivers are defined as "Highways" which means that you can leagally get in at a public area and walk straight downstream or boat through a property and because you are using it as a highway, that is legal!! but once you anchor,you are trespassing and if you cast, you are Hunting without permission. 

I might add that when using a stream as a highway, you have the right to trespass around obstructions as long as you use the shortest way around the obstruction. This clause causes problems because it is what gives canoe liveries the right to come onto your property and cut out logjams without your permission. and also the same right for motorists to drive around a fallen telephone pole through your front yard if its the shortest way around.

Ok, the above are definate answers that have come from many hours of legal briefs and research and answers from Div of watercraft and wildlife. 

It really gets sticky because in each area it is enforced differently. so best advise is to contact the local game warden and ask about how he feels about wadinga certain stretch of water, most likely he will say, go ahead but if someone asks you to leave, please do so or he will have his hands tie to enforce the law, he doesnt want to be in the middle, as he would love to allow everyone to fish everywhere. He is on your side here!!

Unfortunately the Attourney General needs to make a decision to rectify the grey matter here but becuase it is a huge issue with landowners, we have been told that neither the Div of watercraft nor the division of wildlife will pursue this, and I really cant blame them knowing how it would change things weather they decided 1 way or the other.

This is the short version, sorry so long but it comes up all the time and I really dont know where folks think that they own the water but in Ohio, wading is trespassing! Just not heavily enforced which may be a good thing.

Salmonid


----------



## knightwinder (May 12, 2006)

BrianSipe17 said:


> I am pretty sure the land under the river is private property. You would have to get permission to wade or bank fish. On the flip side, I think you can fish from a boat/canoe/float without landowner's permission due to you're not standing on any land


This is a useful thread, but man I sure wish these laws were straitforward in all states in this great country. This is what the schools should teach us all as one of our requirements to graduate.


----------



## Basserman (Oct 27, 2005)

So what about the stories I hear that people dont' own the docks on their land at places like Buckeye Lake. I've heard that the people don't own the land a couple of feet back from the water. I this true at all?


----------



## duckboat (Apr 14, 2004)

A lot of the people at Buckeye lake lease the land they live on. It is usually a unbreakable lease with the state. So the land a few feet back from the shore is public but the boat dock is their property and it is private. We ended up buying a Cabin on a lake that is set up like this. We lease the land from the Muskingum Watershed Conservancy but anything we put on the land is our private property including the dock.


----------



## Basserman (Oct 27, 2005)

Ahhhh, that makes sense


----------



## zspook (Apr 4, 2006)

It seems to me that the law is clear but its interpretation can be so muddied, even the shrewd and crafty lawyers might be confused. Any lawyers out there that care to weigh in?

My question is simply, what if the land is not posted? There may be occasions where there is no house or property that would indicate that you are on private property.


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> what if the land is not posted? There may be occasions where there is no house or property that would indicate that you are on private property.


 simple.private property is just that.............PRIVATE.
as was mentioned earlier,if it's not posted,and you don't know it's private,you likely wouldn't be prosecuted.but if you are informed and asked to leave,it wouldn't be smart to argue the point


----------



## crawdiddy (Apr 10, 2006)

I believe the owning the (land at the bottom of the)river thing to the midpoint is one of those grandfather clause things. Like if you bought the house 30 years ago yes but if you buy a house now you don't own it. Not sure though just going off of talking to a friend whose house backs up to the scioto(he was grandfathered and said he technically owns the bottom of the river out to the middle.). He actually HAD to put signs up on his property so that he could press charges if need be (place had been broken into before so he put signs up). Thats what I got out of talking to him at least.


----------



## kmb411 (Feb 24, 2005)

Salmonid is very close, but key is stream. The rivers are "highway" if they can be navigated by boat. If navigatable by boat, than you can wade and anchor, but have to access at a public access point. 

Think about the property owner- if they can not fence it (or through it) or dam it, than it s public waterway, as long as you do not enter or exit the water. At least in Ohio. 

Buckeye Lake is even better-Technically you can walk around the lake and fish from the bank to 3 feet in (public domain). The problem is that the community is a mayors court- even with a great lawyer, you still can not win.


----------



## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

KMB411 is right on, local enforcement varies from area to area and at a minimum, if its posted, probably should stay off of it, if not, Ill take my chances. Just remember everywhere is owned by someone, just because a city owns the property does not make it "public" even though it was purchased with taxpayers dollars. I do know on larger rivers like the Scioto, Lower Great Miami, Maumee etc. that some properties own 10 feet into the water and that is all but if they own both sides, ( contiguous) they do own the bottom all the way across.( and are taxed for such) but now wading technically is quite dangerous in a place like this where the water is so big so the point is usually moot. 

A lot of people hate the Miami Conservancy District but ultimately, it provides a ton of public access on the Middle and lower Great Miami river so with that said, its not such a bad deal.

And actually from the indian days there is a 1858 Supreme court case which defines even little ditches as public highways when it quotes "Even at high water if there is enough water to float a log downstream for commerce"

and of course Ohio revised code also says that if a stream is "Navigable" then it is Recreationable ( public) but the grey area in Ohio law is missing a current list of what is or isnt "Navigable"

The present list is all Lake erie tribs up to the first riffle or obstruction, all Ohio River tribs up to the first riffle or obstruction, and the lower Muskingum ( Barge traffic) and also do to a drowning on the lower little Miami, a Ohio Supreme court also ruled that the Little Miami Near Loveland and downstream was indeed "Navigable" "Brown V. Newport Concrete" I think is that case
but nowhere else does it really say what is or isnt Navigable and thats where the AG needs to make a clarification but the other divisions wont back it. Thats politics hard at work here folks.....  

Salmonid


----------



## cummins_man (May 16, 2006)

Well I think you guys got it mostly right. My profession deals with land owner rights and I am classified by the State of Ohio as a licenced professional in the matter of property rights. 

The only thing YOU as the casual fisherman and/or woman (gotta be pc here) can't know without doing a ton of research is how the property owner(s) own the land and how the prior owners rights controlled the land and water. You cant say everybody owns to the center of the river, edge, whatever. Most people dont know themselfs.

Most river beads in Ohio are private property and treated as such. The courts say that if you knowing dont own the property, then you are trespassing. 

In general if you see no trespassing signs, then keep out and you wont get hassled. OR ask the land owner if you can wade, maybe he just wants to keep track of who is on his property (thats my scenario). That said I have a river going through my own personal property, yes its posted. It is not navigable because I will shoot your canoe and sink it, ha ha (legal in Ohio believe me). 

Fish where you have permission and youll have no worries. Most of the advise here is good solid advice, if someone asks you to leave you better leave, because the courts will as do you own the property? when you say no, its a done deal.


----------



## Four Weight Fanatic (May 14, 2006)

First of all I'll say that while I am a lawyer, this opininion is just that, a legal opinion that will not necessarily prevent a trespassing charge being issued to the person trespassing. This is intended to be a relatively short and sweet overview of the several areas of the law encompassing the questions in this thread.


First - the laws and rights governing *streambeds* (which is what everyone seems to be talking about) are called riparian rights and laws. In Ohio, it is well settled that where an individual owns the property on both sides of a streambed, that person also owns the streambed itself and may elect to exclude any person for said from property. Where there are different owners on opposing sides of a stream bed, it would seem that the general rule is that each riparian owner owns the streambed to the middle of the stream in the absecence of exact boundary lines (for instance where the stream itself is the boundary between two properties owned by two people) and therefore each owner my elect to exclude any person from said property up to their boundary or their half of the stream. 
Those of you that stated that the actual streambed is owned by the State of Ohio or is public property are referring to a Federal statute the passed in the 50's (The Submerged Lands Act of 1953) that specifically does not preempt State laws regarding riparian ownership interests. 

Second - Everyone seems to be getting caught up with the argument that navagability = okay to trespass (wade). Navigability is a portion of the law that is seperate and apart from ownership rights. Yes if an Ohio stream has been deemed navigable water then you may NAVIGATE it. This does not mean that you can walk through it (although there are some very narrow exception that Salmonid pointed out below), that means you may run a marine vehicle through it whether in commerce or for recreational purposes. Along with the above, the disignation of Navigability generally has to be litigated in court and this litigation would have to transpire after a trespass charge (or civil action in some cases) has been filed. The real grey area regarding Navigability is whether, even if the stream is navigable, can one fish from the boat that one is navigating it in. In my experience (an I have researched this both for myself and for client) there is no real law, statutory or otherwise, addressing this issue.

Third - Tresspassing - the Ohio Revised Code Section cited below is the proper section to examine. In Ohio there is an actual knowledge requrement to the charge of tresspass which means that you must know that you are trespassing before you can successfully be prosecuted for the crime. Notice can be actual or constructive, that is to say that the warning to stay out can come from the owner of the property or a sign. In some jurisdictions if you see a sing and do not leave, you are tresspassing. 

I hope this helps

FWF


----------



## cummins_man (May 16, 2006)

In the court cases that I have been involved in once a person acknowledges that they knowingly did not own the property they were on and did not have verbal or written permission to be on the property, they were found to be criminally trespassing. Although in some cases people flat out lie and walk away.

I have never been involved with illegal fishing or hunting of a stream / river, but ponds are a no brainer if you are caught and the property owner wants to press charges.


----------



## oucat (Aug 18, 2005)

Wading a river is usually not a problem, but I have heard of people being charged with tresspassing on very small creeks.


----------



## Cw_Angler_11 (Apr 11, 2006)

Sorry Fwf but i think you lost me lol


----------



## CHOPIQ (Apr 6, 2004)

I wade the Darby alot and once I asked a park ranger about wading, he said as long as I wasn't out of the water he wouldn't give me a ticket.


----------



## Fishing_Chef (Jul 6, 2006)

I called the game warden for Delaware county, he said basically the same things that are being said here.

They do own the riverbed, half way across, and that if you are flaoting you are ok.

He is supposed to call me again today or tomarrow so I will try to get more specific info from him.


----------



## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

I'm Back, been awhile since last POST(Maybe 1-2 years,lol) but this subject gets me going. I contacted and read all I could on the subject, and recieved a reply from a state attorny that deals with this stuff and like most posts its dead on. Landowners own the land under the stream/river but state owns water and wildlife. Only way you can float it legal like is if state declares said river as navagable(sp?) which not one is yet(except ohio of course). And I was told navagable is a shakey term, commerse is the correct usage, but some think rec. usage is commerse but again this needs ruled on by the state before its really known. So it leaves us with MAYBE you can float past private areas, but never allowed to dip a line even if not hitting bottom, same as bottom the law isthought to mean. Very vage isn't it,lol. Now if there is a logjam or shallow area like sandbar, MAYBE allowed to exit boat to portage, maybe not, depends on river's classification again, which all are not yet. So basically unless you are in public area, or know the landowner(of BOTH sides) you cannot legally fish or possible boat said OHIO PUBLIC WATERWAYS!! Man that burns me still. Oh well going kayak fishing darby Sunday, any tips, never fished it before?
Mike


----------



## oucat (Aug 18, 2005)

Even though the land owners legaly own the bottom of the river there is a slim chance, if any, that you would ever get in trouble for wading a river. I live on a small river, people wade by all of the time and none of the land owners near us care, not even the ones that will break your pole and call the cops if you are at their pond. The only time I would ever not wade is if it was a small creek going through someones property that is not navigable by a canoe. Being polite and respectful will get you out of most situations that could arise from this type of trespassing.


----------



## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

The point is that now you are all empowered with this information (however you want to interpret it) you can make your decisions for your own behalf. I know this much. Knowing it is illegal I am less likely to take that chance. If you know this information and still choose to do it, then that is another thing. I think if you think that "most people" aren't going to care if you waded on their property, then you may be misleading yourselves and operating under a false sense of security from the law.


----------



## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

I will still kayak "certain" places, but I agree more and more these days the new landowners don't want ANYBODY on what the own. I myself have had a shotgun aimed at me below O'shan. dam, about 400 yards below the dam while wading, and have had my car towed on the upper tangy and threatened to be arrested if I come back. The best places anymore are "poorer" land areas(don't flame me on this, just a word) like the lower Walnut below I-70 and rural river streams, but I hope most of us on the board follow bring back what you brought in and then some, trashing up the joint will change landowners real quick and so will acting stupid. It like trying to get permission to hunt private property, next to impossible anymore without a promise of your first born. I stopped wading mostly because of this and that with my sickness, kayaking I can cover more and relax more, unless I need to portage,lol.
I'm still long winded,lol
Mike


----------



## oucat (Aug 18, 2005)

Ok I now see what your saying about the places in columbus, I am guessing there are more people, which leads to more "shady" people, which would turn more landowners against anyone near or on their property. I did not consider the circumstances. When I use the term "most people" I am in an area where there is not much pressure, its laid back and it is enjoyable to see people using our natural resources.


----------



## Fishing_Chef (Jul 6, 2006)

Granted I am not a landowner along a river and do not have to deal with a million yahoos, trashing my property, but I think it is total BS that a person can own a river or riverbed....whatever. It is a natural resource that should be open to everyone, as long as you don't get out on the bank.....

I fished tonight below the dam at O'shay and walked down aways and sure enough there are the private propety signs....... if nothing else the land owners should atleast sell or give out day passes or something. There has to be an answer


----------



## cummins_man (May 16, 2006)

Chef I'll sell you a day pass.

My biggest issue is with the yahoos, most people are fine. People bank fish at my place allot, some people get darn right mean if you ask them to clean up their trash when they leave.

I also have small kids and worry about their safety, you never know. That's why my place is posted. Now if you ask me, then I'll at least have a chance to give you permission. 

Early this year a couple of kids almost drowned at my place and were found by life flight and the local fire department. I never even knew the kids were there swimming until the parents reported them missing. With the property being posted some say it helps the land owners liability incase of an accident on the water. I hope I never have to test that theory.


----------



## kasting king (Aug 17, 2006)

i duck hunt on the river, and last i herd i cant even throw a decoy ( due to the anchor) onto the river, because the bottom belongs to someone and that is trespasing. nor can i tie to the bank for the same reason. stupid isint it


----------



## Fishing_Chef (Jul 6, 2006)

Cummins man, I have 3 small kids and if I were in your shoes I would be concerned aswell, my post wasn't directed to bash all land owners, I just want to be able to wade down a river without touching the banks and enjoy the river that was here long before people put houses next to it.


----------



## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Read this:

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/water/pubs/fs_st/stfs02.htm


----------



## oucat (Aug 18, 2005)

So I was wondering, what do these landowners do when the Boy Scouts come tubing down the river where they are always in contact with the bottom or canoeing and get out for some reason? Do they risk trespassing even though they are part of the same group that is actively involved in cleaning up our resources?
-Like Crankus and others have said we all have the information to make a decisions. I know I am 100% confident that if I am wading a navagable river, staying off the banks, not trasing up the place or causing a scene, I will never have to deal with getting a ticket. There could be a land owner that wants to get hard, but if you show me a game warden that will ticket you for that ill show you one that is pissed off that he couldnt be out there with you. 
With that said I think im going to do a little old fashiond trespassing this-evening, knock on wood, if I get a ticket they will have to take me to jail. lol


----------



## cummins_man (May 16, 2006)

Oucat, if everyone was like you land owners probably wouldn't have any issues. The truth is, by me anyways, about 30% of the people trespass to enjoy the river and have a nice day fishing, cool by me, no problem. The other 70% are there to fish a little, drink, party and leave a general mess behind, which I clean almost every week. That gets old.

I have even had people park on the road and set up picnics in my yard while I was out mowing the grass! This summer, someone even had the balls to put their boat in one of my ponds and dock it there. Did they think it was their pond? I wunder if they remember paying for it?

Once I was walking my dogs when I came across some guys fishing on my property. I went over to see how the bite was, before I could say anything they threatened to kick my butt if I didnt leave and take my dogs or they would kill them. Needless to say I shot them and buried them in the back, (just kidding). People just dont realize the shear number of idiots that land owners may put up with, or what the person before you did. After awhile it is just easier to say Sorry we dont allow fishing Please get off my property, your trespassing. A land owner cant tell the good people from the bad.

Look at it from both perspectives. If you bought a place of your own, would you want everyone treating it like a state park, or worse? Or would you want to enjoy your little slice of heaven on earth? Everyone dreams of buying that special retreat of their own. They just never plan on other people shooting at them through the woods.

Sorry for the length.


----------



## oucat (Aug 18, 2005)

I do not blame you one bit, it is a shame that these people have to ruin it for the rest of us.


----------



## Toolman (Jun 8, 2004)

Can one of the OGF'rs that thinks it OK to fish wherever they please without permission explain to me why it is different than hunting on private property without permission? Thanks.

Tim


----------



## kasting king (Aug 17, 2006)

i agree with you. 
i float and wade the river all the time never even been approached by a game warden. but last year game warden approached us and made it very clear that if he caught us tied to shore or anchored to the bottom he would ticket us. we cant even throw decoys with out written permissiom, and we hunt where there are absoutly no houses.


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

though rivers/streams like the scioto,tangy,darby etc are used by many without much problem,the fact remains that they are private property in many places,and you are trespassing if you are wading/walking the bank.granted,if you're wading/floating in many of those areas,landowners generally don't present a problem unless they are presented with one themselves.
BUT if there are visible signs,fences etc,or you are asked to leave, you are KNOWINGLY trespassing and subject to criminal charges.
whether you like it or not,you have no legal right to enter another's property without permission.i gaurantee you if you do so,and the owner confronts you,and calls the law when you refuse to leave,you will be removed.whether you go to jail is your choice


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

So how many folks here have approached property owners and simply asked them if they can fish the stream? It sounds like a lot of guys choose to fish the stream and then guess later whether they are breaking the law. I have a couple of places that I have asked the owners about and they have told me that it was okay. I stated that my only intent was to fishin in the river and that I would not go anywhere else. That was enough for them. I am sure some owners may not be that understanding but at least in my area most are.

The other night I was fishing the local stream with my boys in an area where I have never had a problem. We were probably a half mile back in from the road when a couple of guys came down the edge of a cornfield bordering the river on an ATV. They stopped and talked to me a couple of minutes and I did not know until then that they owned that side of the river. Anyway he offered to me that I could walk back to the road via his mowed path if I wanted to. I thought that was mighty generous of him and thanked him for the offer. I passed up on the offer though as we continued to fish the river on back to the vehicle.


----------



## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

lol wow this topic again. Seems like every year we get at least one of these threads started. I won't even bother with posting my thoughts on this. Good bye


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

> The courts say that if you knowing dont own the property, then you are trespassing.


That is wrong information.



> Can one of the OGF'rs that thinks it OK to fish wherever they please without permission explain to me why it is different than hunting on private property without permission? Thanks.


Its not about fishing wherever they please.The discussion is about Ohio waterways and the legality of rights to it.The same laws that protect property owners also protect us.If you hunt or fish public land and that land isnt clearly marked how can you be held responsible for not knowing the land boundaries?If you dont want someone on your land then mark it.It sucks and alot of land owners dont understand that they have to mark their land to keep people off but thats the way it is.


----------



## cummins_man (May 16, 2006)

BKR

Fishermen - 99 out of a 100 do not ask in my experience.

Hunters - 99 out of 100 DO ASK for permission.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

ostbucks98 said:


> It sucks and alot of land owners dont understand that they have to mark their land to keep people off but thats the way it is.


 I think that is a different situation as far as knowledge of property lines. My property has fences all around it. The fences are all old and dilapidated but they serve as a visual reference as the boundaries. If someone comes on my property they know that they entered a new property because they have to pass through/over fences to do so. I believe that anyone that wanted to pursue it could bring charges against a trespasser regardless of signs or no signs. If someone came to your house and it was unlocked and didn't have signs that does not give them the right to come on in.

The interpretation of the streams is the same except that the actual property lines do not have fences.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

cummins_man said:


> BKR
> 
> Fishermen - 99 out of a 100 do not ask in my experience.
> 
> Hunters - 99 out of 100 DO ASK for permission.


 Those numbers don't surprise me at all.


----------



## cummins_man (May 16, 2006)

As long as my land isn't considered public land. If it is, why am I still paying on it? lol  



ostbucks98 said:


> That is wrong information.
> 
> 
> 
> Its not about fishing wherever they please.The discussion is about Ohio waterways and the legality of rights to it.The same laws that protect property owners also protect us.If you hunt or fish public land and that land isnt clearly marked how can you be held responsible for not knowing the land boundaries?If you dont want someone on your land then mark it.It sucks and alot of land owners dont understand that they have to mark their land to keep people off but thats the way it is.


----------



## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

bkr43050 said:


> If someone came to your house and it was unlocked and didn't have signs that does not give them the right to come on in.


The door doesn't have to be locked. Neither does your fence. the doors itself whether locked or not is your no trespassing sign just the same as a fence that doesn't have a lock on the gate is still your no trespassing sign. Although to be fair, walking in a house isn't trespassing, it is unlawful entry. Which will have you in ALOT more trouble than if you trespassed on somebodies land.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Rod&Reel said:


> Although to be fair, walking in a house isn't trespassing, it is unlawful entry. Which will have you in ALOT more trouble than if you trespassed on somebodies land.


 I guess I have heard the term unlawfful entry used but never thought about the difference. I agree that it would leave you in a lot more trouble and perhaps a lot more dead.


----------



## Toolman (Jun 8, 2004)

I can't believe I allowed myself to be suckered into this discussion...again!


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Toolman said:


> I can't believe I allowed myself to be suckered into this discussion...again!


 Perhaps you would rather discuss using bass as bait? Or C&R?


----------



## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

This is first hand, straight form the sheriff whom came to my fathers property for trespassers. 

TRESPASSING CHARGE:
Land does NOT have to be posted for trespassing charges to apply and IGNORANCE does not apply. My father's land was not posted, trespassing charges were filed (These weren't hunters/fishermen, but theives - we normally would have ran off hunter/fisher person and told private property).
Fines are low - I think it was like $125 fine and it is a lesser charge on your record. 

CRIMINAL TRESPASSING CHARGE:
This charge can be filed for simple trespassing IF THE PROPERTY IS CLEARLY POSTED, or if the person gets caught commiting a crime. Fine is $500 min. & can be more if the judge determines. It is a more severe charge (I don't pretend to know the law, but it is like a minor misdemeanor - 4th degree or something). 

We went the next day and posted the entire property. Sheriff says now we can charge anybody that is "looking around" with criminal - they go see a judge and pay $500 min. We are hoping people mind their own business and this isn't necessary, but will press charges because we already had some theft last year (air tools, mig/tig welder, etc..)


----------



## Toolman (Jun 8, 2004)

We could discuss why trolling :T is a far superior technique-especially for :B to either drifting or jigging...but I think we all know that to be true!  Or would you prefer to debate the Ford vs Chevy issue?


----------



## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Here, lets really throw a kink in it and talk about gas prices...that will REALLY get this thread going lol.


----------



## cummins_man (May 16, 2006)

Do you know how much money I spend on gas patroling my compound in my Polaris?

How's That R&R?


----------



## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Mis post..sorry


----------



## jrsnyder82 (May 9, 2007)

Fishing_Chef said:


> I have a question about local rivers.....
> 
> Tonight I went fishing with a buddy and we went to the Olentangy River right above the Home Road bridge.
> 
> ...


 I was actually there last weekend, but I parked right at the intersection, stayed south of the signs and waded between 1/4 and 1/2 of a mile. After I got back I started a private property thread to find out what the laws are in Ohio. I have looked up who owns the property south of home road on both sides of the river and am going to try to contact the owners about permission to wade through their property. Unfortunately, I could not find specific names for a couple of them.
I can tell you that on the west side of the river, Liberty Presbyterian owns the land immediately north of Home Road, so I'm not sure that they put the signs up on that side of the river. There is one owner for the land along the west side of the river extending from Home Road south for about 1/4 to 1/2 of a mile. On the east side there are 3-4 owners for the land parallel to it. Once I'm able to contact these people I'll let you know what their reactions are.


----------

