# Fish not safe to eat



## hogtrman

The ODNR has posted that its not safe to eat any fish from the Great Miami river from Dayton to the Ohio river. In the spring these fish move up into the feeder streams. They should have included this tidbit in their warning.


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## kingofamberley

Interesting. I thought it was the EPA that does the advisories. Link?


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## fisherFL

.


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## IGbullshark

Fisherfourlife said:


> Already ate a couple out of there
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Induce vomiting.


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## Dizzy

Not sure where you heard that info but I didn't see anything on the ODNR site referencing that advisory. The newest advisory on the OEPA site is from Feb. 2012. 

2012 Ohio EPA Fish Consumption Advisory (.pdf)


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## kingofamberley

The EPA says not to eat any SUCKERS from Dayton to the mouth


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## Eriesteamer

I see a post in Pa. that says the farmers are now able get DDT ( we called it drop dead twice ) that was band for years and not eat any fish that are in all rivers in the 3 rivers area. If it be true the 3 rivers empty into Ohio river thus Ohio river will have DDT in water and the fish there will be at risk. Eat fish out this rivers like christ last supper LOL By the way a funeral home here has a plan for fisher men who eat these fish called there lay away plan. LOL


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## ARReflections

Eriesteamer said:


> I see a post in Pa. that says the farmers are now able get DDT ( we called it drop dead twice ) that was band for years and not eat any fish that are in all rivers in the 3 rivers area. If it be true the 3 rivers empty into Ohio river thus Ohio river will have DDT in water and the fish there will be at risk. Eat fish out this rivers like christ last supper LOL By the way a funeral home here has a plan for fisher men who eat these fish called there lay away plan. LOL



Serious!?! DDT coming back? Seems we would have learned our lesson from the past. Just when the bald eagle made a come back. This can not be correct...


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## Eriesteamer

DDT
Because of this bioaccumulation, DDTremains in the food chain, moving from crayfish, frogs and fish into the bodies of animals that eat them. Therefore, DDT levels are often highest in the bodies of animals near the top of the food chain, notably in predatory birds like eagles, hawks, pelicans, condors and other meat-eatingDDT is still used to control pests in a few places,despite its risks. birds.
DDT is still used to control pests in a few places, despite its risks.
( Article on come back.)


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## longhaulpointer

eagles are overrated anyhow.


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## hogtrman

I read it from the ODNR website, might have been send elsewhere, didnt pay much attention at the time


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## hogtrman

PCB's were the reason for non consumption.


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## hogtrman

the warning I read said all fish, and not to even get in the water of Dick's creek.


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## kingofamberley

You sure it wasn't from the 80's?


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## hogtrman

no it was a new report. Check it out.


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## 9Left

its a great river to fish..but i wouldnt eat anything outta there either


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## oldstinkyguy

Dicks Creek is ALL FISH
GMR is SUCKERS

copied and pasted from 2012 sport fish consumption advisory....


Dicks Creek
Cincinnati-Dayton Road, Middletown to the Great Miami River
(Butler County)
All Species PCBs


Great Miami River
Lowhead Dam at Monument Avenue (Dayton) to mouth (Ohio River)
(Butler, Hamilton, Montgomery, Warren Counties)
All Suckers PCBs


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## Bronzeman

oldstinkyguy said:


> Dicks Creek is ALL FISH
> GMR is SUCKERS
> 
> copied and pasted from 2012 sport fish consumption advisory....
> 
> 
> Dicks Creek
> Cincinnati-Dayton Road, Middletown to the Great Miami River
> (Butler County)
> All Species PCBs
> 
> 
> Great Miami River
> Lowhead Dam at Monument Avenue (Dayton) to mouth (Ohio River)
> (Butler, Hamilton, Montgomery, Warren Counties)
> All Suckers PCBs


Here is the full report I read from the OEPA website concerning fish consumption on the GMR. http://www.epa.state.oh.us/portals/35/fishadvisory/12FishConsumptionAdv.pdf

-------
Great Miami River:

&#61656; The river section downstream of Indian Lake to Lowhead Dam at Monument Avenue in Dayton - one meal per month for common carp, a channel catfish and flathead catfish advisory is due to PCBs; and an advisory for largemouth bass, saugeye, smallmouth bass and white bass is due to mercury.

&#61656; The river section from the Lowhead Dam at Monument Avenue in Dayton to State Route 73 near Middletown - do not eat for all suckers due to PCBs; one meal per month for flathead catfish due to mercury and PCBs; common carp and channel catfish are affected by only PCBs; and largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, white bass and saugeye are affected by mercury.

&#61656; The river section from State Route 73 near Middletown to Harrison Pike in Miamitown - a do not eat advisory remains in place for all suckers due to PCBs; one meal every two months Is advised for hybrid striped bass due to PCBs and lead; one meal per month for flathead catfish due to mercury and PCBs; one meal per month for channel catfish, common carp, freshwater drum, and smallmouth buffalo due to PCBs; and one meal per month for largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, white bass and saugeye due to mercury.

&#61656; Area from Harrison Pike in Miamitown to the Ohio River - a do not eat advisory remains in place for all suckers due to PCBs; one meal every two months for hybrid striped bass due to PCBs and lead; one meal per month for flathead catfish due to mercury and PCBs; one meal per month for channel catfish, common carp, freshwater drum and smallmouth buffalo due to PCBs; and one meal per month for largemouth bass 15 and over, saugeye and white bass due to mercury.
------

True, suckers are "do not eat". All other fish are under limited eating advisories. In other words, its OK to poison yourself as long as you don't over do it!


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## ARReflections

Eriesteamer said:


> DDT
> Because of this bioaccumulation, DDTremains in the food chain, moving from crayfish, frogs and fish into the bodies of animals that eat them. Therefore, DDT levels are often highest in the bodies of animals near the top of the food chain, notably in predatory birds like eagles, hawks, pelicans, condors and other meat-eating...




I wonder the average levels in humans. We are pretty much the top of the food chain. This post has gotten me thinking, where is the cleanest public fishing waters in the state of Ohio? North? East? West? South? Central? I would probably rule out waters close to huge cities or heavy industrialized areas like Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Akron etc...

Also, humans seem to forget animals like eagles are sentinels. There have been quite a bit of birth defects in humans due to ingredients in pesticides and herbicides that have been preceded by reduction in a segment of the animal population; stating eagles are overrated seems to be a bit short sighted or a result of licking a bit of too much lead paint...


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## SConner

Eriesteamer said:


> DDT
> Because of this bioaccumulation, DDTremains in the food chain, moving from crayfish, frogs and fish into the bodies of animals that eat them. Therefore, DDT levels are often highest in the bodies of animals near the top of the food chain, notably in predatory birds like eagles, hawks, pelicans, condors and other meat-eatingDDT is still used to control pests in a few places,despite its risks. birds.
> DDT is still used to control pests in a few places, despite its risks.
> ( Article on come back.)


I searched around on internet and can't find any information indicating DDT has been used in USA since the ban in 1972. According to Wiki India is only country that still produces and uses for general agriculture with a few other countries using it when specific malaria risks have been identified. Did you find the article citing it's use in Ohio?


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## I_Shock_Em

Eriesteamer said:


> I see a *post* in Pa. that says the farmers are now able get DDT ( we called it drop dead twice )


Do you believe everything you read on the internet?


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## E_Lin

I_Shock_Em said:


> Do you believe everything you read on the internet?


I think it is funny on a forum full of fisherman that someone has to bring up what can be believed about what someone else has said...


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## Gumbers

Haha @E_Lin, +1, great point 

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## Eriesteamer

I sure do beleive most I read on computer. Now to not just DDT but PCB to are more reason to not eat Pa. fish out the 3 river area as Shenago lake is to be poluted with PCB from the former Westinghouse transformer plant. Seams they had a dumping sight up nere Ohio Pa. in orange ville area and for say 50 years had barrles the stuff there that rusted threw and where did the PCB go was to leach in the ground where else. When they dam Shenago they was not thinking about the now empty rusted out barrel but did take them away and that was all I seen the story on that. Now after the water was fill the lake they see it covered the dump sight. And did nothing to get the PCB that was now leaching in lakes water. Other then to say not eat the fish. Now this lake drains into feeder creeks and rivers as Mahoning that goes into Ohio river where the 3 rivers do same. Just north the lock be and that was my main concern to warn the fish there are not best table fair. I use to fish there a lot back in my days and plan to next summer as I see these guys getting lot nice catches. But to eating the fish mmmm as rest say where is best fish to eat beats me. Now to that read the best eating ones are cold water fish as haddock and alaska salmon. My mother only bought haddock as that was a cold water fish. Well I do eat Erie eyes till I die. Why not that lakes poluted to with mercury and PCB and what else beats me. but it is less then Ohio river be by far.


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## reo

I have heard that the consumption of contaminated fish can lead to a loss of cognitive thinking. This loss most commonly manifests itself in the total absence of proper grammar, spelling and punctuation when typing


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## IGbullshark

i never really understood why people eat fish from the GMR south of Dayton anyway. i understand that some of you do and im not trying to upset anyone, but why take the chance? it has been made perfectly clear that the water is extremely dirty south of dayton. if you have to limit your intake to "one meal per month" that would be enough reason to NEVER eat fish from there IMO lol. just because some organization (including the EPA or other federal group) says its ok, doesn't mean they should be trusted. they are often found to be incorrect. i understand that some of the warnings are for mercury, and thats a risk we all take as seafood eaters (and is mostly natural), but not the PCBs


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## fisherFL

IGbullshark said:


> i never really understood why people eat fish from the GMR south of Dayton anyway. i understand that some of you do and im not trying to upset anyone, but why take the chance? it has been made perfectly clear that the water is extremely dirty south of dayton. if you have to limit your intake to "one meal per month" that would be enough reason to NEVER eat fish from there IMO lol. just because some organization (including the EPA or other federal group) says its ok, doesn't mean they should be trusted. they are often found to be incorrect. i understand that some of the warnings are for mercury, and thats a risk we all take as seafood eaters (and is mostly natural), but not the PCBs


Would you eat fish north of Dayton from the GMR?


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## Eriesteamer

Now I ( We ) got proof not eat the fish. LOL


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## oldstinkyguy

I'm pretty sure that the depleted uranium from Fernald binds with the PCB's and makes them settle to the bottom. I also have never witnessed or even heard of any strange or abnormal behavior by any of the locals when fishing in the Hamilton! middletown area....

On a serious note The Ohio EPA and the Middletown Department of Health have posted warning signs along the creek saying not to swim, bathe or fish. Dick's Creek is one of only five waterways in Ohio deemed unsafe for any of these activities. Over the years AK steel has been cited for exceeding daily allowed levels of free cyanide, zinc, excessive pH levels, spills of "flushing liquor", spent pickle liquor, sulfuric acid, fish kills from unknown discharges, and consistent problems with the presence of polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs). From what I understand a school backs up to the creek and AK paid for a chain link fence to keep the kids away from the creek. AK (then Armco) used PCB-containing oils in hydraulic machinery. Armco then held PCB-containing oils in separator ponds at the slag processing area south of Oxford State Road in the 60's 70's and 80's.


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## ARReflections

Is there a way to identify PCB in the water? I remember a few times wading the Eastfork tailwater and LM where pockets of standing water on the banks had a metallic sheen or the soil was a nice bright orange. The orange soil could be iron but I only see that stuff around Tennessee...


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## fishinnick

> Is there a way to identify PCB in the water? I remember a few times wading the Eastfork tailwater and LM where pockets of standing water on the banks had a metallic sheen or the soil was a nice bright orange. The orange soil could be iron but I only see that stuff around Tennessee...


I'm not an expert on this(especially in SW OH), but the orange soil(and rocks) is mostly from acid mine drainage. Some of it could be natural too. I see it over in PA. Whether it is from AMD or just natural I don't think it is connected to PCB at all.

And if it's not that, then it's probably some sort of really bad pollution


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## deltaoscar

oldstinkyguy said:


> On a serious note The Ohio EPA and the Middletown Department of Health have posted warning signs along the creek saying not to swim, bathe or fish.


I did not know this about Dicks Creek until now, and to think I've drove over it many times and thought, "Man I might just go down there and take a bath." I guess I'll just have to continue on down to Gregory Creek to get cleaned up.


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## kingofamberley

I can't believe people thought it was ok to do this to waterways. And this happens all over the world...


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## IGbullshark

Fisherfourlife said:


> Would you eat fish north of Dayton from the GMR?
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


i have actually never eaten a fish that i have caught so in a roundabout way, no i would not eat fish north of dayton lol. its not that i disagree with eating the fish you catch, i just don't know how to fillet fish hahaha


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## IGbullshark

kingofamberley said:


> I can't believe people thought it was ok to do this to waterways. And this happens all over the world...


and thats just one company that got caught doing it. who knows how many others do the same thing. the mound tech center in miamisburg in almost right on the river. they had an underground nuclear spill some years ago and just filled it in with cement to "fix" it. its only a matter of time before it leeches into the river...


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## kingofamberley

And lets not forget the old Fernald Uranium Plant! Its also near the GMR but closer to Cinci.


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## hogtrman

Dicks creek dumps into the great miami river south of Middletown. I have seen nice smallmouths and other fish in this creek.

Monsanto, used to dump into the great miami also. I was told by a Monsanto retiree, that the river is hot.


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## MassillonBuckeye

IGbullshark said:


> i have actually never eaten a fish that i have caught so in a roundabout way, no i would not eat fish north of dayton lol. its not that i disagree with eating the fish you catch, i just don't know how to fillet fish hahaha


Wow you are missing out! Never had anyone else fillet? You gotta try it sometime! Just not one of those lmr fishes lol


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## GarrettMyers

I have eaten one fish out of the LMR. A smallie that was gut hooked from a pop-r and instantly started bleeding out. I hate killing fish, but felt like it would have been a waste to throw it back. It was actually delicious. I would never eat a fish out of the GMR, but I understand why people do. To me, it's a perception thing and I would worry about the GMR.


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## Lowell H Turner

Unfortunately, highly polluted rivers and waterways are just 1 of the legacies we are leaving to our children and grandkids...it insanely costs a company LESS to "get caught" and pay even a million dollar "fine' than to update their emissions and pollution control equipment and clean up their past environmental disasters. Am SERIOUSLY afraid that in the not so distant future clean air and drinkable water will become VERY valuable and our yrs of "So what?" will bite us ALL in the (deleted) VERY HARD...


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## inrll

If there is a "limited consumption" advisory then thats all I need to know. I honestly mean no disrespect to those that do eat from rivers with warnings, I just don't understand why someone would? There's plenty of bluegill, stocker trout, crappie and catfish to be caught in the lakes.


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## Deazl666

I know a lot of folks who like to eat what they catch. Other than the occasional panfish I throw everything back. There's simply no guarantee that anything out there is truly safe to eat. Even if a body of water is considered to be clean, fish travel.


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## kingofamberley

The way I see it, nothing is "truly safe to eat". If there is such a diverse ecosystem in these waters, they can't be much worse than the air I breathe (which also has its share of pollution). Fresh fish is one of the simple things in life that I absolutely love. I have grown up eating fish and I honestly don't think they are any worse than all the mass raised meat from the super markets. There are state wide advisories (meaning all bodies of water) for most fish anyway, so you aren't going to get away from that. Moderation is key but every once in a while should not hurt you. I bet they are even safer than the advisories would have you believe, but the EPA wants to be safe and cover their trails in case of liability issues. Even canned tuna has mercury warnings. /rant


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## kingofamberley

With all that said though, don't go eating carp from the Mill Creek lol. Some bodies of water and species really are a lot healthier than others.


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## IGbullshark

kingofamberley said:


> The way I see it, nothing is "truly safe to eat". If there is such a diverse ecosystem in these waters, they can't be much worse than the air I breathe (which also has its share of pollution). Fresh fish is one of the simple things in life that I absolutely love. I have grown up eating fish and I honestly don't think they are any worse than all the mass raised meat from the super markets. There are state wide advisories (meaning all bodies of water) for most fish anyway, so you aren't going to get away from that. Moderation is key but every once in a while should not hurt you. I bet they are even safer than the advisories would have you believe, but the EPA wants to be safe and cover their trails in case of liability issues. Even canned tuna has mercury warnings. /rant
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine



im extremely conscious of what im putting into my body. i only eat organic grass fed beef and free range chicken so as not to ingest artificial hormones and whatnot. you cant get that certainty from the fish you catch but i understand why people eat the fish they catch. if i knew how to fillet my own fish i would probably eat it from time to time provided i knew that the water was relatively clean. "clean" would NOT include the GMR lol.


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## kingofamberley

IGbullshark said:


> im extremely conscious of what im putting into my body. i only eat organic grass fed beef and free range chicken so as not to ingest artificial hormones and whatnot. you cant get that certainty from the fish you catch but i understand why people eat the fish they catch. if i knew how to fillet my own fish i would probably eat it from time to time provided i knew that the water was relatively clean. "clean" would NOT include the GMR lol.


Lol fair enough IG. I have eaten from the GMR but I don't make a habit of it. The few times a year that I decide to eat my catch are among my favorite meals. I've never eaten a bass but around here I have eaten sunfish, channel catfish, sauger, and even a drum. I can't bring myself to keep a bass, maybe if its guthooked.


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## IGbullshark

kingofamberley said:


> I've heard bass are delicious


that'll be a hangin' round these here parts


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## kingofamberley

I hate the internet sometimes.


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## E_Lin

kingofamberley said:


> With all that said though, don't go eating carp from the Mill Creek lol. Some bodies of water and species really are a lot healthier than others.


_Carp_ from the Mill Creek?

I'm not sure I would drink water from the Mill Creek even if it were boiled and purified...


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## kingofamberley

E_Lin said:


> _Carp_ from the Mill Creek?
> 
> I'm not sure I would drink water from the Mill Creek even if it were boiled and purified...


Well carp seem to be the dominant species there. Just an example but yes I would say the Mill is pretty much non edible. Even though the lady from the Mill Creek Watershed Council assured me that the EPA states 1 meal per month from it is OK, I just can't believe that it is at the same status as the GMR.


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## ranger373v

dang... it took them this long? i knew 10 years ago not to eat fish out of there, it was rumored mostly because of the "water treatment " plant...but once i started fishing it and seeing the trash junk, and what not there... not to mention someof the fish...



Fisherfourlife said:


> Dang my saugeye hole is in west Carrollton, does that mean I shouldn't keep any from there now? Already ate a couple out of there
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


u fish the dam there? im right up the road.


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## ranger373v

oldstinkyguy said:


> Dicks Creek is ALL FISH
> GMR is SUCKERS
> 
> copied and pasted from 2012 sport fish consumption advisory....
> 
> 
> Dicks Creek
> Cincinnati-Dayton Road, Middletown to the Great Miami River
> (Butler County)
> All Species PCBs



we can thank my employer...


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## GarrettMyers

IGbullshark said:


> im extremely conscious of what im putting into my body. i only eat organic grass fed beef and free range chicken so as not to ingest artificial hormones and whatnot. you cant get that certainty from the fish you catch but i understand why people eat the fish they catch. if i knew how to fillet my own fish i would probably eat it from time to time provided i knew that the water was relatively clean. "clean" would NOT include the GMR lol.


McChicken is free range, right? 


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## eatinbass

reo said:


> I have heard that the consumption of contaminated fish can lead to a loss of cognitive thinking. This loss most commonly manifests itself in the total absence of proper grammar, spelling and punctuation when typing



oh this explain a lot....it just they is sew tastie...


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## eatinbass

kingofamberley said:


> Lol fair enough IG. I have eaten from the GMR but I don't make a habit of it. The few times a year that I decide to eat my catch are among my favorite meals. I've never eaten a bass but around here I have eaten sunfish, channel catfish, sauger, and even a drum. I can't bring myself to keep a bass, maybe if its guthooked.



If they're maimed they're game.....and in the frying pan


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## buckeyebowman

fishinnick said:


> I'm not an expert on this(especially in SW OH), but the orange soil(and rocks) is mostly from acid mine drainage. Some of it could be natural too. I see it over in PA. Whether it is from AMD or just natural I don't think it is connected to PCB at all.
> 
> And if it's not that, then it's probably some sort of really bad pollution


What you're referring to is called "Yellow Boy". Here's a quote from Wikipedia.

Yellow boy

When the pH of acid mine drainage is raised past 3, either through contact with fresh water or neutralizing minerals, previously soluble Iron(III) ions precipitate as Iron(III) hydroxide, a yellow-orange solid colloquially known as yellow boy.[5] Other types of iron precipitates are possible, including iron oxides and oxyhydroxides. All these precipitates can discolor water and smother plant and animal life on the streambed, disrupting stream ecosystems (a specific offense under the Fisheries Act in Canada). The process also produces additional hydrogen ions, which can further decrease pH. In some cases, the concentrations of iron hydroxides in yellow boy are so high, the precipitate can be recovered for commercial use in pigments.


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## fisherFL

u fish the dam there? im right up the road.[/QUOTE]
Yeah around it at least, my only place over caught saugeye so far this winter/fall



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## buckeyebowman

kingofamberley said:


> The way I see it, nothing is "truly safe to eat". If there is such a diverse ecosystem in these waters, they can't be much worse than the air I breathe (which also has its share of pollution). Fresh fish is one of the simple things in life that I absolutely love. I have grown up eating fish and I honestly don't think they are any worse than all the mass raised meat from the super markets. There are state wide advisories (meaning all bodies of water) for most fish anyway, so you aren't going to get away from that. Moderation is key but every once in a while should not hurt you. I bet they are even safer than the advisories would have you believe, but the EPA wants to be safe and cover their trails in case of liability issues. Even canned tuna has mercury warnings. /rant
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I've been thinking along the same lines as you. It has occurred to me that these various "mother hen" agencies are engaging in a sort of "winter weather advisory" mentality like the NWS and various other weather forecasting agencies. When a winter storm is coming they make it sound like the end of the world! And how many storms have turned out as bad as predicted? I think that the same "CYA" mode is in operation here. The lawyers have everyone running scared!

And as far as guaranteeing the health of anything you eat, as IGbullshark stated, only grass fed beef and free range chicken, how does anyone really know unless you raise it yourself?! Or, you personally know the farmer who raises that beef or those chickens. I think, as long as you're not eating fish from polluted waters nearly every day, you're probably going to be allright.


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## IGbullshark

GarrettMyers said:


> McChicken is free range, right?
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


lol yes i believe so  kind of like how the big mac is organic


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## Deazl666

There are all sorts of things that we can't "see" but they can (and do) hurt us. Radiation and viruses leap to mind. The fact is, and the science backs this up, is that dangerous chemicals accumulate in fish, especially the bigger ones, the apex feeders, which includes bass, walleye, and just about anything else high up on the food chain. I'd rather forego the opportunity to eat what i catch, which I enjoy doing, and reduce the risk of developing cancer or some other nasty later on in life, a period I'm rapidly approaching. When I think about the amount of damage I did to my body in my teens and early twenties, I would rather be safe than sorry, which is why I throw everything back. I'm sure the fish advisories are reliable, but I'm no longer willing to risk it...


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## trailbreaker

kingofamberley said:


> And lets not forget the old Fernald Uranium Plant! Its also near the GMR but closer to Cinci.


i know where it is.. but don't know if any thing leaked into the river years ago


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## ranger373v

Where is this plant?


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## Dizzy

Fernald Info Link

I don't think the plant ever had a spill directly into the GMR but the groundwater under the plant is contaminated.


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## trailbreaker

ranger373v said:


> Where is this plant?


about 20 miles northwest of Cincinnati... it's in hamilton county and butler co
i'm 25 mins away, it's been closed for years there were 9 plants closed in 1989 i remember see in a newspaper when i was real young if a leak happen
colerain was going to get hit, they had a target around the area that would've gotten hit if it did never happned... now there's a preserve with two ponds on the property don't think you can fish there
link to the preserve http://cincinnatibirds.com/where/Fernald.php?PHPSESSID=ec88acdc51df576d63a8aaae9b6a964b


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