# Seeking Permission From Landowners



## LoramieFish12 (Jul 14, 2017)

Well, with the _SLOW _turn of winter coming into Spring/Summer, I've had plenty of time to hop on google maps and begin searching for some greenfield fishing spots. After plugging away on Google maps and going to the Shelby County & Miami County Parcel maps, I've finally found several private properties that I'd like to request permission to fish.

Do you guys have any consistent approach to requesting for land/water permission? Obviously, I'm not walking up for permission in a cut-off and jean shorts (my go to country concert get-up). 
Should I show up with a liability form (https://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/Forms/PermissiontoHunt.pdf), say where I'm from, who I am, why the heck I'm knocking on your door.

I'm just curious what your routines are, or maybe even better, from a landowner's perspective what do you look for?

Thanks,
BL

***Keep Fishing. Never Stop.***


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## LoramieFish12 (Jul 14, 2017)

And to make it clear, I'm going to the owners' properties to ask for permission.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

The private ponds and lakes were are allowed to fish here in NEO are due to two reasons. We knew the people beforehand such as a coworker or distant relative or in the case a strangers, when we approached them, we asked if there was anything/work they needed done.

Do you have any specific skills you could offer the owner in exchange for permission to fish?

One guy we installed a telephone system in his horse barn. Another one we went to his house during Christmas and gave home and his wife a big ol' fruit basket as thanks for allowing us to fish.
Now, most of the places we asked we were told to take a hike. A couple of places we did have permission we no longer do due to the son moving out or the husband dying and the wife told us not to come back. It wasn't because we were disrespectful of the people or the property.
We still have two nice boatable lakes where we stop by every so often just to shoot the breeze and talk as they are getting up there in years at both places. They appreciate the company and our willingness just to spend time with them and talk. We don't fish, we just see how they are doing.
When I did this in my 20's, I got nowhere. Turned down everywhere.
Now that I'm in my 50's and my friends are in their 60 and 70's we seem to have much more success being older.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Yup just remember that just because folks say no doesnt mean they are jerks. Lol. I have tons of folks ask about fishing my pond and i already have about a dozen folks who heavily fish my pond so im not interested in having any more. I would say to keep asking and look for ponds not visable from the road. Keep a knocking.


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

You need to sell yourself to the landowner before asking permission. Take time to start a conversation, ask the landowner about themselves, their history on the land, if you can help them in some way, etc before asking permission. Make the conversation about them more than about you. By applying some psychology and sales skills I have had people ask me if I would like to hunt or fish on their property. I never had to ask, I let them ask me.


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## LoramieFish12 (Jul 14, 2017)

Lewzer said:


> The private ponds and lakes were are allowed to fish here in NEO are due to two reasons. We knew the people beforehand such as a coworker or distant relative or in the case a strangers, when we approached them, we asked if there was anything/work they needed done.
> 
> Do you have any specific skills you could offer the owner in exchange for permission to fish?
> 
> ...


Well it sounds like I just need to quickly age about 40 years! haha

But skills wise, I may lack in that area. I have some woodworking/fabricating experience, but I always make a point to keep fishing spots, even public, cleaned up (usually bring an old shopping bag).

When you've gone to these people in the past, do you say "Hey, if you let me fish your land I will do favors for you." I just don't see how telling someone that you'll do favors would come out genuinely unless they've already given you permission.


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## LoramieFish12 (Jul 14, 2017)

Muddy said:


> You need to sell yourself to the landowner before asking permission. Take time to start a conversation, ask the landowner about themselves, their history on the land, if you can help them in some way, etc before asking permission. Make the conversation about them more than about you. By applying some psychology and sales skills I have had people ask me if I would like to hunt or fish on their property. I never had to ask, I let them ask me.


That all makes sense, and people generally do like to talk more about themselves than listen to others. However, what are you doing when you knock on someone's door? I couldn't imagine someone coming to my house asking me questions about myself, then 10 minutes later saying "Can I fish you land?" Even in sales you give a pitch to the person then break into conversation. People get impatient & uncomfortable when you beat around the bush.


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## Gottagofishn (Nov 18, 2009)

When I started bass fishing (many, many moons ago) I went to ODNR and inquired about the borrow pits along the interstates. They directed me to the ODNR officer in charge of the area in question and he issued me a permit to fish those ponds. At the time I got permission to fish all the ponds along 71 N. of Columbus up to about Mansfield. 
That may not get the ponds you want but it should get you some decent fishing to start if they still do that.

These days I don't think I would let any stranger on my property. Folks be crazy....


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## LoramieFish12 (Jul 14, 2017)

Gottagofishn said:


> When I started bass fishing (many, many moons ago) I went to ODNR and inquired about the borrow pits along the interstates. They directed me to the ODNR officer in charge of the area in question and he issued me a permit to fish those ponds. At the time I got permission to fish all the ponds along 71 N. of Columbus up to about Mansfield.
> That may not get the ponds you want but it should get you some decent fishing to start if they still do that.
> 
> These days I don't think I would let any stranger on my property. Folks be crazy....


I never really thought about checking with the ODNR for some local properties...good idea.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

I have more experience asking for permission to hunt but I always try to catch landowners outdoors, I hate knocking on some ones door thinking they could be eating dinner or have some family situation in the works. 
One thing I have learned is getting the first property in an area is often the hardest, once you know a few local property owners others will know you can be trusted and permission is far easier to gain.
Good luck and Good fishing


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

When I was in my late teens, me and a few buddies had permission to hunt and fish an older gentleman's land. He had a fairly large farm with a few ponds and raised cattle. We got permission to use his land by asking him pretty much straight out. He told us we could use his land if we shot a bunch of groundhogs for him. We went out there for days in the summer and sat on hay bales and dropped as many as we could. After that, if he had any groundhog issues he would just ask when we stopped by his house. 

The only other things he ever asked of us was to pick up our trash, run off anybody else that we saw that didn't have permission, and bring him some wild game. If we were fishing he would want a few bluegills or a small bass from time to time. If someone got a deer or a turkey, we would drop off some meat for him. 

We didn't ask for permission on other nearby properties but we did go shoot some groundhogs on other peoples property as a favor to the landowner for his buddies. We probably could have easily got permission, we just didn't need any more area to hunt or fish.

You typically wont get access for nothing, but most landowners are not going to ask ridiculous requests from you either.


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## LoramieFish12 (Jul 14, 2017)

BuckeyeFishinNut said:


> When I was in my late teens, me and a few buddies had permission to hunt and fish an older gentleman's land. He had a fairly large farm with a few ponds and raised cattle. We got permission to use his land by asking him pretty much straight out. He told us we could use his land if we shot a bunch of groundhogs for him. We went out there for days in the summer and sat on hay bales and dropped as many as we could. After that, if he had any groundhog issues he would just ask when we stopped by his house.
> 
> The only other things he ever asked of us was to pick up our trash, run off anybody else that we saw that didn't have permission, and bring him some wild game. If we were fishing he would want a few bluegills or a small bass from time to time. If someone got a deer or a turkey, we would drop off some meat for him.
> 
> ...


Dang, permission to fish AND go groundhog hunting. That almost sounds like a dream!


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

Take a kid with you and have the kid ask for permission.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

Flathead76 said:


> Take a kid with you and have to kid ask for permission.


Took the words out of my mouth...take a kid with you.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

Flathead76 said:


> Take a kid with you and have to kid ask for permission.





Shad Rap said:


> Took the words out of my mouth...take a kid with you.


Only if your gonna take a kid fishing !


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

My approach is to straight up just ask. Also as garhtr said I never knock on a door but will drive by multiple times to hopefully find someone (a man) outside. The usual answer you will hear is NO. Now here is your only chance to maybe sell yourself and maybe get a change to a yes.
Always say thanks no matter what the answer is and you may add something as to "I'm only interested in catch & release and I promise I'll pick up all my trash plus anything other trash I find" This will probably be your only chance to get a brief conversation going, use it wisely.

One reason I say ask a man is because women are most likely say "no" to all strangers. I know my wife wouldn't be comfortable with anyone she didn't know.

I would have that permission slip with me and have it filled out with all your info just in case you get lucky and get a yes answer. Be sure all your info is on the slip and maybe a little extra such as phone numbers, business card ect. Here is a biggie...NEVER bring anyone else with you while fishing who isn't there when you ask. In time as you get to know each other you may be able to include a friend but 1st get to know each other.

Good luck in your search


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

garhtr said:


> Only if your gonna take a kid fishing !


Well of course!


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

Shad Rap said:


> Took the words out of my mouth...take a kid with you.


That's the reason why you have the kid ask.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

Flathead76 said:


> That's the reason why you have the kid ask.


I know.


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## LoramieFish12 (Jul 14, 2017)

crappiedude said:


> My approach is to straight up just ask. Also as garhtr said I never knock on a door but will drive by multiple times to hopefully find someone (a man) outside. The usual answer you will hear is NO. Now here is your only chance to maybe sell yourself and maybe get a change to a yes.
> Always say thanks no matter what the answer is and you may add something as to "I'm only interested in catch & release and I promise I'll pick up all my trash plus anything other trash I find" This will probably be your only chance to get a brief conversation going, use it wisely.
> 
> One reason I say ask a man is because women are most likely say "no" to all strangers. I know my wife wouldn't be comfortable with anyone she didn't know.
> ...


Thanks for the advice crappiedude! Looks like I've got some work this weekend driving & asking around then! I've got about 8 properties lined up to ask. I'll update next week on my results.


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## Skippy (Dec 2, 2009)

As said above, go asking permission by YOURSELF. Having a young son or daughter along won't hurt your asking tho. If possible know the land owners name and call him Mr or Mrs for awhile. Don't show up in some big off road truck. If your a vet, wearing a army or navy hat mite help. Offer to shake hands when you introduce yourself. Use yes sir ,, no sir to any questions.
If they do give you permission, ask where you should park in order to be out of the way.
Permission slips are a turn off for many folks to sign and I don't think you need one for fishing a pond or even a rivers edge along a land owners property. 

As someone who used to own a pretty good sized farm,, I tended to be on the gruff side when anyone showed up asking permission. Doing that weeded a lot of people from the start. Being over polite will not hurt at all. Good luck..


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## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

you could always do a float trip. as long as you don't get out you don't need permission


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## SJB (Mar 22, 2017)

Flathead76 said:


> Take a kid with you and have the kid ask for permission.


My brother and I call this our secret weapon - young kids. They are now not as cute, ages in early teens, but still can work. And we take them with us.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

Skippy said:


> As said above, go asking permission by YOURSELF. Having a young son or daughter along won't hurt your asking tho. If possible know the land owners name and call him Mr or Mrs for awhile. Don't show up in some big off road truck. If your a vet, wearing a army or navy hat mite help. Offer to shake hands when you introduce yourself. Use yes sir ,, no sir to any questions.
> If they do give you permission, ask where you should park in order to be out of the way.
> Permission slips are a turn off for many folks to sign and I don't think you need one for fishing a pond or even a rivers edge along a land owners property.
> 
> As someone who used to own a pretty good sized farm,, I tended to be on the gruff side when anyone showed up asking permission. Doing that weeded a lot of people from the start. Being over polite will not hurt at all. Good luck..


 I agree on the written permission being a turn off,especially with older landowners, I still have farms I've hunted for decades but will never get permission in writing, these gentlemen feel that their word is good enough , no need to write it down.
I certainly won't push it


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## Legend killer (Apr 20, 2011)

A man asked my dad if his daughter could turkey hunt. The man then showed up solo. The man got his butt ran off.


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## ohihunter2014 (Feb 19, 2017)

Here is what i do for my private land hunting spots which would be the same for fishing.

I use the county auditor and find out who the actual owner is and go to their house but only after driving by a few times. Always go during the day and never at breakfast or dinner time, if i knock i say hello Mr. ........ My name is (first and last name) I'm sorry to bother you, i was wondering if you allowed fishing? Always have that slip filled out and ready to roll so your not sitting in their driveway like a creeper doing it or taking up too much of their time. If they say no i always say okay, thank you for your time and sorry to bother you. Always wear clean boots, clean jeans and a nice shirt tucked in. If the woman answers the door DO NOT say is Mr. .... home or anything like that because she owns that lake/pond just as much as he does and IMO its disrespectful to say that to her. I don't think saying well i will help you fix this or that if you let me fish is respectful and TBH it would piss me off after I've told you no. I once scored fishing rights at my old high school by contacting the superintendent who i knew and just flat out asked and he sat there for a minute and says well i usually don't let anyone but a couple teachers and even then i stopped that because of the trash, trespassing, tons of people but you seem like your heading in the right direction so here is my card and tell anyone that has an issue call me! He wrote my name on the back of the card stating i may fish in the pond with his cell #. Its all how you approach people.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Your other option is to get better on public waters... lol


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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

Take a 1-pager (front and back) that talks about you both personally and professionally - essentially a personal life resume. Info on family (go back a couple generations), where you went to school, etc... give them a reason to find something in common with you. put a color photo of you and your vehicle on this document (with license plate info). greet them and put this into their hand as a leave behind. even if they say no, they have all your info so that if they think otherwise a couple days later - they can contact you. or it may take you a couple of years going back, just to say hay see how they are doing, offer off a few "extra" packs of fish or venison. Eventually they may come around or may point you to someone that may. Its all marketing - you have to put yourself out there as a good product...


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## Legend killer (Apr 20, 2011)

privateer said:


> Take a 1-pager (front and back) that talks about you both personally and professionally - essentially a personal life resume. Info on family (go back a couple generations), where you went to school, etc... give them a reason to find something in common with you. put a color photo of you and your vehicle on this document (with license plate info). greet them and put this into their hand as a leave behind. even if they say no, they have all your info so that if they think otherwise a couple days later - they can contact you. or it may take you a couple of years going back, just to say hay see how they are doing, offer off a few "extra" packs of fish or venison. Eventually they may come around or may point you to someone that may. Its all marketing - you have to put yourself out there as a good product...


I'm shocked you don't get that thrown back in your face.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

When I ask for a permission slip to be signed I leave it more as an option. One older guy never wanted to sign it and I told him I was fine with out it as long as he was. (fast forward a couple of years) One time when I was just running around I seen him outside so I stopped and talked for a while. He brought up the permission slip again explaining he just didn't like signing them because of liability. I said I understood but since I had one in my truck I got it out and I pointed out the following...

*"In accepting this permit, I agree to assume and release the landowner from any or


all liability for personal injuries, property damage, or for the loss of life or property


resulting from, or in any way connected with the issuance of this permit."*

Basically I said by issuing the permission slip the sportsman actually has to sign releasing the owner of liability. Well, now we use permission slips and he signs them every year and even gives me a few extra just in case I want to bring a friend or 2.
If you point out the permission slips are more for their benefit then they are usually more willing to sign.


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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

Legend killer said:


> I'm shocked you don't get that thrown back in your face.


it works. even when out of state. it gives them something so they can reject you - do some research if they wish and then give you a call back. they don't have to make the decision up front this way and you are giving them an ID.

i personally never give permission on first contact. I want info on who you are, i then check you out, talk with other neighbors to see if you were there, contact your references, etc... you are asking for access to my land (my home) and I don't take that lightly... we may become friends over time, but at first it is a very formal process.


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## carp (Oct 31, 2011)

I use Facebook first,,, to learn and understand what the person is like? It has worked many times. Find out what they do for a living, religion, politics, all these things may help you understand the landowner better. It lets you know the individuals likes and dislikes. If their a member of PETA , I'm probably not knocking!


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

carp said:


> I use Facebook first,,, to learn and understand what the person is like? It has worked many times. Find out what they do for a living, religion, politics, all these things may help you understand the landowner better. It lets you know the individuals likes and dislikes. If their a member of PETA , I'm probably not knocking!


So you're a creeper huh??..just kidding.


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## LoramieFish12 (Jul 14, 2017)

9Left said:


> Your other option is to get better on public waters... lol


Easy to say, but pond fishing is usually a good break from the norm! Plus, it always builds up some self-esteem during the hot & over-fished parts of the season.


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## MIGHTY (Sep 21, 2013)

This is a great thread as I’ve tried to come up with plans in my head for years now. Times are changing and people don’t trust others like they used to but who can blame them. I’m 31 and being somewhat of a “youngster” getting permission is that much harder because I believe a land owner might think great this guy just wants to go out and get drunk on my
Land with some of his buddies. I didn’t have a problem knocking on doors and asking about 6-7 years ago but lately I’ve gotten too nervous and just avoid it. The best spot I ever had was on a creek that was quite a drive for me and the guy that owned the land was very old and lived by himself. I was about 24-25 at the time when I asked for permission and I did so with an older guy I work with who I fish with quite often and he was ok with it. It was a 35 mile drive one way for me but whenever we went out there I made sure to inform him that we were going to be out there and if he wasn’t home I waited. 2 Friday’s in a row I drove out there and waited for around 2 hours but he never got home so I got back in my truck and drove the 45 minutes Home. His health started to decline and the last time we went out there his daughter who was probably in her 50’s answered the door and we told her our situation. We probably fished out there a total of 8-10 times in 2 years. She checked with her dad and she told us to go ahead but that would probably be the last time. He allowed us to drive about a half mile off the road on a tractor lane to get to the creek. He had no trespassing signs posted everywhere since his son in law hunted back there and camped with his family. Whenever we showed up and he informed us family was camping, we said no problem and left and went to a different public spot. Even on our last trip out there, someone had been trespassing and left an empty 24 pack of beer cans in a box on the bank by a fire pit so we cleaned it up. Haven’t been back there in probably 4 years? I did try to people that owned the land on the opposite side of creek but the fella that lived in the house was renting it from the owner and he said the owner didn’t even want him wander too far out of the yard. People that live in more populated areas tend to be more leanient when giving permission is what I’ve gathered than people that live in less rural areas. I feel like a lot of the people in these areas are more concerned about hunting than fishing but who knows. So I’ve just been stuck catfishing the same 10 or so spots for quite a while now that i have permission on but I have no other option as like I said, I’ve just gotten too hesistant to ask for permission anymore. It took about 5-6 years of asking new people I meet and become friendly with but just recently an inspector at work has a brother who owns a farm about 2 miles away from where my last “favorite” spot was and he checked with his brother and said he was ok with it. Things are finally looking up this year! The biggest flathead I’ve ever personally seen caught came from the last spot and it sucked to lose permission after the guy died but life isn’t fair. I don’t trespass and fishing hasn’t been as exciting as of late but stick with it and ask around to new people you meet and eventually you might get lucky.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

The only thing you can do is to politely ask…If They say no, then they say no . Not much you can do to change that.

We definitely live in a different world then we did 15 to 20 years ago...I honestly think that people just place a much higher value on privacy nowadays than they did years ago.


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## fishingful (Apr 5, 2004)

I live on 2 3/4 acres. 1 and 1/8 of my property is ponds. You wouldent know it from the road. Unless you pulled in our driveway. I live 600 feet off the road. I finaly had to put up signs at the end of the drive to keep people from pulling in seeing the house and backing out. Looks like a oil well road. 

Idk if I would let people fish or not I haven't had time to really assess the ponds yet. To see what's in there. Proably would be the approach.


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

fishingful said:


> I live on 2 3/4 acres. 1 and 1/8 of my property is ponds. You wouldent know it from the road. Unless you pulled in our driveway. I live 600 feet off the road. I finaly had to put up signs at the end of the drive to keep people from pulling in seeing the house and backing out. Looks like a oil well road.
> 
> Idk if I would let people fish or not I haven't had time to really assess the ponds yet. To see what's in there. Proably would be the approach.


Dear fishingful, I would like to ask permission for my grandson and granddaughter to fish your ponds. The kids are well mannered and will clean up anything around the ponds. My grandson is a strapping young man at 15 and willing to cut grass or help anyway he can. I will need to accompany them but have no need to fish. Just want the kids to see what it used to be like in the good ol days. Thank you..Saugeye Tom


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## fishingful (Apr 5, 2004)

Saugeye Tom said:


> Dear fishingful, I would like to ask permission for my grandson and granddaughter to fish your ponds. The kids are well mannered and will clean up anything around the ponds. My grandson is a strapping young man at 15 and willing to cut grass or help anyway he can. I will need to accompany them but have no need to fish. Just want the kids to see what it used to be like in the good ol days. Thank you..Saugeye Tom


Haha I live 3.5 hours from you.


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

fishingful said:


> Haha I live 3.5 hours from you.


Did it sound good though?


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

Not to get all legal and stuff, but offering to do work for the landowner and him accepting it can create a liability situation for the landowner that he otherwise would not have if he merely allowed you to access his pond/lake/river. The liability comes in the form of you being there for a mutual benefit and not merely there as an invitee with no benefit. If you were doing work to hunt and fish his land, the question begs whether or not you would be regarded as a "recreational user" under ORC 1533.181. A lot of landowners are hip to this, so just better be straight and ask for permission and leave it at that.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> Not to get all legal and stuff, but offering to do work for the landowner and him accepting it can create a liability situation for the landowner that he otherwise would not have if he merely allowed you to access his pond/lake/river. The liability comes in the form of you being there for a mutual benefit and not merely there as an invitee with no benefit. If you were doing work to hunt and fish his land, the question begs whether or not you would be regarded as a "recreational user" under ORC 1533.181. A lot of landowners are hip to this, so just better be straight and ask for permission and leave it at that.


Ya know, I never used to be for tort reform but as I get older and see all these ridiculous lawsuits or liabilities like the one mentioned above or burglars suing a homeowner because they got shot committing felony B&E to whatever, I am ALL for tort reform...


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

Lewzer said:


> Ya know, I never used to be for tort reform but as I get older and see all these ridiculous lawsuits or liabilities like the one mentioned above or burglars suing a homeowner because they got shot committing felony B&E to whatever, I am ALL for tort reform...


I agree. It's crazy, and the fact that a judge or jury would entertain some of these arguments is nuts! In addition to tort reform, there needs to be caps on awards to make litigation less likely. I'd also like to see a system where if the plaintiff loses, they have to pay all defense and court costs. In the meantime, we all have to be smart about what we do, and reinforces the notion that you don't do business or enter into agreements with people you don't know and trust.


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