# ML Didn't Fire



## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

I had something happen Monday afternoon that I've heard others complain abt. but, so far, had never happened to me. A nice wide 8 pt. walks around the hill and stands broadside to me at 30 yds. I raise the trusty Knight in-line and put the crosshairs on the vitals. Snap-no bang! The deer looks my way but doesn't bolt. I recocked it thinking maybe the spring was not extending hard enough to have the cap fire (or something?), and snap again! Then the big boy trots over the top of the hill at the last snapping noise. 
It was a nice dry day and the only thing I can figure is it was just a dud primer so I put a new one on out of the can and continued to hunt the rest of the evening without another sighting. I've killed several deer with this gun but never had this happen before. I plan to try to find a 209 primer conversion but since Knight is out of business, that might be hard to come by. By the way, I used my shotgun in the rain on Tuesday but didn't see any deer.
CLARIFICATION: The gun didn't fire because the CAP did not go off!


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## Poohflinger (Feb 2, 2010)

I always run a dry patch to soak up any excess oil that might puddle up in the gun. Snapping a cap before you go out will help dry out the chamber. I also learned the hard way as did you. Welcome to the club! Take your shotgun out next time! My 2 cents.


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## tOSUSteve (May 30, 2007)

Also check that there isnt any residue in the nipple or getting to the powder.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Poohflinger said:


> I always run a dry patch to soak up any excess oil that might puddle up in the gun. Snapping a cap before you go out will help dry out the chamber. I also learned the hard way as did you. Welcome to the club! Take your shotgun out next time! My 2 cents.


I was given the tip to store my gun with the muzzle down to avoid the oil draining in to the breech. And I fire a cap or two before loading. I have not had a problem yet but then again I am still a noobie to muzzleloaders.

I have a question for you guys. Do you fire your gun after every day's hunt to empty it or leave it loaded (primer removed of course). I have been leaving mine loaded the last few days. I feel confident with it in normal weather but the moisture that last few days raises a bit of uncertainty. I would be interested to hear from some ML veterans on this one.

As far as taking the shotgun instead of the ML? I have a hard time convincing myself to do that. I just love the accuracy that my ML gives me.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I always leave mine loaded. If it&#8217;s raining out that usually means it&#8217;s not too cold, so the gun stays inside. If it&#8217;s below freezing it stays in the outside garage. That&#8217;s how I do it at least.


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## ramfan (May 6, 2008)

http://www.outdoorhuntingsupply.com...s-4741.html?osCsid=ugam2gvfmu7nuoui627086aib5


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

M.Magis said:


> I always leave mine loaded. If its raining out that usually means its not too cold, so the gun stays inside. If its below freezing it stays in the outside garage. Thats how I do it at least.


I left mine in the cabinet in my garage. It is out of direct moisture but I am not sure what humidity may do to it. I oiled it before putting it in the cabinet, stored muzzle down and a cloth over the top of the gun. I am thinking I should be alright. My one boy has seemed to have rotten luck this season so it will probably be his luck that it will misfire. He is still hunting with me and I will have my shotgun along as well so I can make a quick trade.


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## squid_1 (Jun 2, 2005)

Just dont put another load on top of the one you leave in.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

As a few mentioned above, I can vouch for MLs firing fine after being loaded for a few days. Much more easier on the wallet as opposed to firing and reloading after each hunt. I have a TC Omega and before I load I check to make sure that I can see daylight from the end of the barrel, through the nipple. If you can see light, it should be good enough for a spark to travel through...especially a 209.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Mushijobah said:


> I have a TC Omega and before I load I check to make sure that I can see daylight from the end of the barrel, through the nipple. If you can see light, it should be good enough for a spark to travel through...especially a 209.


The only exception would be if there was excessive oil. That can put a fire out in hurry.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Mushijobah said:


> As a few mentioned above, I can vouch for MLs firing fine after being loaded for a few days. Much more easier on the wallet as opposed to firing and reloading after each hunt. I have a TC Omega and before I load I check to make sure that I can see daylight from the end of the barrel, through the nipple. If you can see light, it should be good enough for a spark to travel through...especially a 209.


I usually pull my breech plug and clean it real good before starting my hunt in case it did get some oil settling down in it. And then I still pop one primer for safe measure.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

As stated previously store with muzzle down when empty. I've left mine loaded the whole season with no problem firing at the end of the year. I've done this since the late 70's and have never had a problem.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

My ML is one of the first manufactured and has a completely exposed breech/nipple/hammer section. Like crappiedude I store it muzzle down.
I have never had a misfire while hunting or at the range and all I ever used were standard caps. I keep the caps stored in an airtight container but I also go to great lengths when preparing my ML for shooting.
My ML does not have a breech plug so I have to really get the breech and bore as dry as possible. I start running several patches soaked with bore cleaner to cut the storage oil. I follow this with a couple ounces of rubbing alcohol poured into the barrel with the cap nipple plugged. I'll rock the barrel for a minuted or two then dump it and again dry patch. I let the barrel sit muzzle down for a while, dry patch again then follow this up with a flush of high grade automotive laquer thinner and drain through the nipple. The thinner will evaporate very quickly and leave a dry breech and bore. I load the gun ( I shoot patched round balls and Pyrodex) and don't reload if unfired for several days. If i'm hunting in the rain I cover the muzzle with a latex finger guard and also protect the hammer/breech area with some saran and a rubber band.
Lots of precautions but the gun always fires.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

ramfan said:


> http://www.outdoorhuntingsupply.com...s-4741.html?osCsid=ugam2gvfmu7nuoui627086aib5


Thanks for the above info. Glad to see conversion is still a possibility. 
I added a clarification to the orig. post. The gun did not misfire, the cap simply did not go off as it should have(and has done reliably for all firings in the past.) It was not a prob. of oil or moisture in the gun or nipple, but of a dud firing cap. All the submitted info is good and I usually take those(or other) precautions but there simply is no way of knowing you have a hot cap on the nipple that I can see. I do not fire my gun after every hunt but remove the cap, which effectively "unloads" the gun and it can be transported legally that way. I have left it loaded from the first day of gun season til the last day of muzzle loader and it always fires when I want to empty it.


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## bigeye1 (Nov 13, 2007)

I had the same problem with a knight wolverine. I replaced the nipple every year, they are c heap. I also found that cci magnum caps fired 100% of the time. I noticed that some of the other caps did not sit as well on the nipple. I sold this gun to my brother-in-law and he has done the same and has had no problems. He replaced the nipple w/ the 209 primer right before gun seaseon. He got the got it at cabelas.


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## jeffmo (Apr 7, 2004)

after i clean mine(an omega),i use bore butter pretty liberally AND use anti seize lube on the nipple threads.i've always stored it muzzle up.all of my other guns have wood stocks so i store muzzle down to prevent any oil from seeping into and softening the stock.
before the season starts i use dry patches through the barrel to remove all of the bore butter.i also remove the nipple,clean it,checking to make sure it's no clogged at all,then i put it(nipple) in the oven on low heat to make sure it's completly dry.after it cools off i put it back into the rifle.i always fire a couple of primer caps through it before loading it for hunting.
since un-loading an omega is easy i always un-load mine at the end of the day........unless i'm lucky enough to un-load it on a deer!


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## OHBMQUINN (Sep 11, 2007)

Love the accuracy and range of m/l I have a traditions lightning 45 cal before I load I always snap a few caps through it and when hunting in damp weather I put 2 pieces of black tape over the barrel I have had m/l s in the past that used #11 caps that I had problems with but Have not had this problem with the 209 shot gun primer but you do always have to take extra precautions before going out every year I would try new #11 caps just for gp and I also like ccis personal prefrance hope this helps


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

Knight is out of business??? Dang, I learned something new today! I use a T/C CO2 "Thing-a-ma-jig" (forgot the name of the thing) to blow out the Pirodex Powder and Conical Slug. My ML is an In-line Conical shooter.


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## Backtroll (Mar 7, 2010)

Knight owners, Knight Rifle was purchased and is again manufacturing rifles. Accessories and parts are available. Warrenty is good. http://www.knightrifles.com/home.php


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

That's good news, backtroll. I figured they would be back sooner or later(makes reselling a used Knight a better possibility also!) 
As far as caps, I have used Dynamit Nobel(German brand) since my first kit side lock m/l maybe 30 years ago. They fired hot like a .22 cal. short and NEVER failed me but became hard to come by locally and had to go to more traditional makers over the past several years. Anyways, I am going to the 209 conversion for my old MK 93 inline. Thanks for all the good feedback!!


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I also occasionally had a #11 percussion cap not go off when using my Knight MK-85's I converted them to the 209 primer system quite a few years ago. The conversion is OK and it solved the dud #11 cap problem but it is a little bit of a pain with the Knight red 209 holders. Certainly not as easy as a gun designed originally for 209's but it works


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## pastordon (Jul 21, 2008)

I have hunted all my life taking my first deer at 12 and first buck at 14. Now my boys are 11 and 12. They passed the hunters safety course when they were 8 and 9, but had them wait til last season to hunt. Bought them the rossi 410 22 combo and had them shoot 3 in shells. Hard to be accurate with a bead at the end of the barrel. They never had a deer within 40 yards. I made a drive around the mountain leaving my 10 year old by himself for about the 15 min walk. I was coming up the hill toward him and i heard him go baaa, 3 times. With all the hunting shows we watch I know he was trying to stop a deer and he shot. I went up the hill and he missed, the deer was about 50 yards away when he shot. Thats a tough shot with that kind of a gun. This year I bought the 11 year old a youth 20 gague moss. with rifeld barrel and a scope and the 12 year old a youth knight muzzleloader 209. I think I was more excited about the youth season than they were. Got ready to go into the woods and I couldn't figure out how the 209 went on the nipple. I told him lets look at the kit of items that was still in the box it came with. After 15 minutes of frustration, thinking he was going to have to use the back up 410, I found 20 of the red plastic sleeves and off we went. Unfortunately they have not fired their guns at a deer this season, but I am still hopeful. When I heard Knight was going out of business, i was wondering if I could get those red discs, sounds like I can from the earlier post. His wolverine has some kind of a second safety that screws out, I was wondering if your gun has that and if it was all the way out so it could fire? But I had enough misfires with the old style ml and perc. cap. Even shot 3 caps thorugh first, had a plastic sleve to weather proof the cap, but still cap fired! Since getting my TC black diamond inline with 209 6 or 7 years ago its never happened! Switch to 209, it burns hot!


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## eyecatchum2 (Mar 30, 2010)

I had 1 miss fire with a M/L, it was 20 below with windchill, I think it was a bad #11 cap, I have never had a problem with it since (2nd cap worked) or my new Omega with 209. If you have seen any photos comparing between the #11 and the 209 it looks like a match and a blow torch. You have to be sure your gun (nipple) is spotless if using #11 cap, but sometimes you get a bad one, never happens at the range - only when aiming at a deer.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

pastordon said:


> His wolverine has some kind of a second safety that screws out, I was wondering if your gun has that and if it was all the way out so it could fire?


Yes my Knights have the second screw out safety, always kind of liked those especially when my son was young and first starting to carry a gun on his own.


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## pastordon (Jul 21, 2008)

I'll second that!


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## Nitro_boy (Apr 1, 2005)

I have a knight as well and I have had issues after a couple of shots of inline hammer hitting good primers and not firing. THe blowback from powder creates drag in the mechanical parts slowing it down. I did buy the conversion for mine now. You can try spinning the shaft after a shot to break up the buildup.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

I also have Knight M/L's. I also like the RWS Dynamit Nobel caps. You can get them from Dixie Gun Works.

I've had mine not put off the cap a couple of times. Each time it was because a spent cap was stuck inside the cup of the striking face of the hammer. I haven't came up with a good cure yet, but I'm thinking about cutting away some of the cup. I'm not sure why it couldn't just be a flat face.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

I Fish said:


> I also have Knight M/L's. I also like the RWS Dynamit Nobel caps. You can get them from Dixie Gun Works.
> 
> I've had mine not put off the cap a couple of times. Each time it was because a spent cap was stuck inside the cup of the striking face of the hammer. I haven't came up with a good cure yet, but I'm thinking about cutting away some of the cup. I'm not sure why it couldn't just be a flat face.


Well, on mine I think the cup is deeper to "try" to keep the cap dry and clean when the "screw out" safety is "screwed in"-but I don't really think it does much good for that. Also, maybe to reduce some of the "fire back" towards the shooters eyes.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

UPS man delivered my 209 primer conversion kit today! Will install it tomorrow and head down to deer camp this weekend to see if that bad boy is still walking the hills. Many thanks to RAMFAN for the tip on the cheapest location to purchase it that I was able to find! $12.95 UPS delivery stinks but I have it now and don't expect anymore misfires-ever!


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## ramfan (May 6, 2008)

To me this is what this site is about, Outdoorsmen helping out when and if they can.For me I think I am gonna let another guy take my gun out, I already have an 8pt. so I will be looking for does. Good luck to all and be safe..........:!


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## ur_averagejoe4 (Aug 18, 2009)

I had the same problem this past weekend. Just bought a new to me CVA M/L that uses #11 primers and the primers went off when I pulled the trigger but didn't ignite the powder to shoot the bullet. So I am currently taking it apart and I have taken the nipple off but have yet to figure out how to take that bolt or plug that the nipple sits in out. I don't know if I can use a wide flat head screwdriver or what.


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## ramfan (May 6, 2008)

Ur Average Joe, Hey you should of gotten a tool kit w/Muzzle Loader.The part you are looking for has a hole in it for the straight bar that also comes with it.The other side is a flat side with a raised ridge used to unscrew the nipple plug.I have a CVA and have never had a miss fire to date.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

ur_averagejoe4 said:


> I had the same problem this past weekend. Just bought a new to me CVA M/L that uses #11 primers and the primers went off when I pulled the trigger but didn't ignite the powder to shoot the bullet. So I am currently taking it apart and I have taken the nipple off but have yet to figure out how to take that bolt or plug that the nipple sits in out. I don't know if I can use a wide flat head screwdriver or what.


I'd check the nipple, it might be plugged-or the powder(if not new) could be damp. If you don't have the tools that should have come with it, you could use a screwdriver that is large enough to engage the slots in the plug. This screw driver will need to have a square shaft(instead of round!), which you can lock a crescent wrench onto for some torque. Turn it ccw. Since this is a "used" gun, it may be rusted in place and you'll need some penetrating oil sprayed onto the bolt where the threads go into the barrel. If there's a charge in the gun still, I'd add some water with an eye dropper thru the nipple hole to render the powder 'safe'(wet powder will not fire! and keep the muzzle pointed in a 'safe' direction.) If this works, I'd lightly oil the barrel and the threads on the nipple bolt before reassembling it. Just my opinions.


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## ur_averagejoe4 (Aug 18, 2009)

Yeah, I bought it used and don't have the tools. I bought a nipple wrench and got it out and it was full of stuff. I took the bullet and most of the powder out with a bullet puller. I'm going to stop by the auto store either at lunch or after work before class to look for a screwdriver that would work.


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## ur_averagejoe4 (Aug 18, 2009)

Well, went out yesterday with my new cleaned out ML, although we didn't see anything, it shot great. Going to take it out tonight to see if I can't get anything on the last day.


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