# Which of these rods for froggin, + other stuff



## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

So I've been looking to build my dream combo for froggin ever since this thread and this follow-up post by me, based on this post by lord of the punks, and this linked article .

Of course. now that summer is over and the mats are soon to disappear I'm in the position to actually push the button on it.

I plan on buying the Lew's Tournament Speed Spool and stringing it with powerpro 50lb. This is pretty inviolate as I've done all the possible research and thought about it all for so long that I began running in circles with the process.

I should also mention that this setup is no longer intended to be an exclusive frogging combo, but more of a med-heavy-ish/topwater multitasker with a major in frogging. The reel will no longer be a 7.1 gear ratio but a 6.4 as they don't make a lefty 7.1, so I'll just have to compensate by reeling faster I guess. 

So yeah, if you think I've lost the plot and have watered down a froggin rig and made it too generic, then, yes sir, I did. But is it useless now for any task since it is built off of a specialized concept, or did I do OK trying to balance it's various purposes?

SO, now I need a rod...

I had previously settled upon the 

Abu Garcia Vendetta2 Casting Rod VNTC73-6 - 7'3" Med-Hvy, Extra-Fast Taper, 12-20lb line weight, ¼-1oz lure weight.

As the nearly ideal rod for the task since a MH rod at 7'-7'6" with and XF tip is a rare thing indeed (at my price point, let it be said).

The Vendetta rods seem to be getting phased out of the abu line and are harder to find, so I began looking for other options, which all have their negatives.

I can't decide which is to be 'THE ONE', please help me choose.

I went to Cabela's and spent at least two hours pestering the folks in the fishing department there trying to find the correct rod and then left on an errand, only to return later that evening and waste another 2 hours of their time. Gob bless them, each and every one, for being so patient and helpful while I ate away at their productivity.

RODS:

Our original contender the abu garcia vendetta, see above.

The abu veritas VRC73-6; 7'3", F, MH, 1/4-1oz OR VRC69-6; 6'9", XF, MH, 1/4-1oz (shorter length only because it has the exalted XF tip)

The unreviewed and therefore suspect, Cabela's Tournament ZX Bass Casting Rod in Topwater Frog, TZXC-73H; 7'3", Fast, H, 1/4 to 1-1/4oz. Not the well reviewed ZX Platinum but a new ZX.

I handled numerous vendettas, veritas', as well as the zx topwaterfrog. And as far as feel goes I chose the the cabela's topwater frog as the best of that bunch. plus it looks sexy in unfinished carbon fiber and its specs are pretty good, HM64 graphite.

The problem arose during some newbreedfishing over the weekend. He suggested the 13 Fishing Omen rods as the best bang for the buck at the $100 range. Actually the 7'3" F, MH, 3/8-1oz is $120 and the 7'1", F, MH, 3/8-1oz is $100. 

13fishing omen black: Great review from the 13 fishing and I thought I found my rod, but many complaints about the short handle length for the 13fishing's 13 3/4" and some quality control plus a $50 replacement cost for the rods with broken tips. (for perspective, my 6'6", ML combo has a 13" handle that I often wonder is too short).

Veritas, $100 too many complaints of broken tips, I held it in my hand and was super lite, i dunno.

Cabela's ZX tournament $100, favorite rod I HELD but no idea if cabela's branded products are any good and it costs as much as the newbreed recommended Omen.

Vendetta, Veritas, ZX or the Omen. 
(nothing but the vendetta and (short)veritas comes with an XF tip)

Wut I buy?


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## wapak angler (Jul 23, 2012)

I have a 6'6 MH, F Veritas and absolutely love it. I will tell you that I don't use it for topwater though. I use it for anything on bottom since I have my Lew's Laser MG rigged with fluorocarbon. I use a 7'0 M, Vendetta for all my topwater stuff, spooks, sexy dawg, Pop r, as well as anything that floats in water column. I have the Vendetta rigged with 17lb monofilament on an Abu Black Max reel that's going bad.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

glad I could help you out...


first off.. the reel you chose is fantastic... the lews reels cast better than any reel ive ever seen... I don't own one but ive had them on my boat and there was noticeable casting distance even though the persons using them were novices....


the speed you chose isn't that big of a deal.. a 6ish/1 is a good all around speed and will make the reel more adept at versatility...

as for the rod... I actually have the veritas as my frog rod... and I did break the tip... although, the rod tip itself did not break, just the eye... cost me 5 bucks to fix it and havnt had an issue since...

I own about 15 g loomis rods and I love them all, the veritas is a decent cheap filler... 

the other rods you looked at, I cant speak on cuz ive never held one.... but the veritas isn't a bad rod for a hundie....


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

(drooling) I too have had the pleasure of using a lews baitcaster for a very short time, but they are readily the best bang for the buck IMHO.

Not to restart "this thread from a while back," but frogging can cause a lot of shock to the tip of the rod. Hallelujah hook sets using high # braid attached to a fish your pulling thru cover.......

I would suggest that you stay away from graphite over IM7 because graphite in a rod must be balanced between weight and brittleness(sp). Unfortunately, brittle rods are also more sensitive.

IM7, while heavier and a little less sensitive than IM8 and above; can take the shock of frogging (flipping and pitching jigs, catfishing, etc)

If you go for a higher modulus rod you may cause broken tips due to brittleness. The extra sensitivity of a higher modulus rod is not really needed with frogging because is very visual, and IM7 is just as well suited for flipping/pitching.

While I'm not going to name a specific rod you "should" buy (I use a 7" MF vendetta because I only paid $28, and I'm saving for a MHF Grimreaper) hopefully you can use this information to make a choice you're happy with.

Mr. A

P.S. - like you, I spend too much time researching things I want to buy. I take notes, compare, read reviews, and personally handle of possible. Until I start going in circles. What I found out about going in circles is that your gut will start telling you which one not to get with each new pass, but not which ones to buy.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Back in the early days of braided line there were a lot of problems with rods breaking because of the increase in shock to the rod that a no stretch line provided. Rod manufacturers weren't designing their blanks for the use of a no stretch line. That was the case then..... it isn't the case now. 

Rod manufacturers know about braid now, and they design their blanks for it's potential use. While the brittleness problem with rod tips today (if there is one) can be attributed to higher modulus graphite's, it's not because those higher modulus graphite's break easier. It's because a higher modulus graphite allows rod manufacturers to make a thinner walled blank, while still achieving the same stiffness that a thicker walled, lower modulus graphite blank would have. The brittleness is in the thickness of the blank wall.... not an easier breaking material. Don't be afraid to use braided line with the higher modulus rod blanks of today. If a person is breaking rod tips, it's generally because of equipment abuse, a flaw in the blank, or damage caused in handling. Not because the rod uses a higher modulus graphite. 

As far as the rods you mentioned, I don't know a thing about them. I will say that I'd assume you could trust the Cabela's brand as much as any of those you mentioned. They've been in business a long time and their name is on the line with their rod series. The same goes for Gander Mountain. My father uses quite a few of Gander Mountain's rods, and he has never had a problem with them. So don't let the Cabela's name scare you. If you like the rod, buy the rod.

As far as the rod specs for the various rods you listed...... I personally like the numbers on the Cabela's rod. The 1/4 oz low rating on recommended lure weight indicates it will probably cast and pitch lighter lures well, and the 1 1/4 oz. high rating on lure weight indicates that it probably has a fairly substantial backbone. I would choose the Cabela's rod. You said you want a multitasking rod, and with that rod you will have one..... but don't expect it to be a good rod for treble hooked lures. When it says top water frogging, that is exactly what it means. Frogs. It's going to be too stiff and too powerful to land many, if any fish on a treble hooked lure. It will probably handle buzz baits fairly well. Although I personally like a little softer action for buzz baits.

Anyhow........ those are my thoughts. Hope they help.

Oh .... and if you are curious as to what I use for frogging, as well as flipping or pitching. I use a 7' Shimano Crucial heavy power, extra fast action rod, rated for 3/8 - 1 1/4 oz. lures. It's made with IM9 graphite, and when the need arises for the so called "hallelujah" hook set (which it does quite frequently when flipping, pitching, or frogging) I absolutely powder fish on the hook set while using 50# test braid and it's still in one piece. And has been for 3 years.


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## Mothra (Apr 4, 2011)

I've got my frogging set up as the following:

Dobyns Champion 735C
Lew Tourny Pro
Power Pro - 50lb

That Dobyns rod is excellent for a variety of uses.


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

Thanks for the considered and in depth replies to my question. I've taken a couple days to further narrow down my choices of brands and models of rods for this setup.

TL;DR: I'm gonna go with a Cabela's ZX Tournament rod, just not certain what size yet. After all the research and hand holding, I really do believe that this is the right rod as far as quality goes and especially how it feels in my broken and gnarled mitts.

The Long Story:

I got word from well informed sources that Cabela's up in Polaris had a few 13 Fishing, rods in stock, but that you kinda had to go looking for them. 

Well, I did just that yesterday and spent another hour and a half trying those out and comparing them to my target acquisitions. (Let it be known that I went out of my way to NOT involve any cabela's staff this time and waste away their day, though I did get help in finding a Lew's, lefty, speed spool to use as a test mount.)

I spent most of my time trying to convince myself to love the 13 Fishing rods and trying to find a reason to discard the cabela's zx tourney, which is supposed to be a more economical version, ie: stripped down version, of their Platinum ZX line which is supposed to have been the upscale version of their xml, or something or another, line of rods. 

Whatever... their zx platinum is at $200 and the zx tourney I was looking at is $100, if we just all agree to act like adults and round up from 199.99 or 99.99 or whatever.

I literally spent the first hour handling the zx tourney and 13 fishing rods and looking for a reason to choose the 13 fishing. The remaining 30 minutes was spent hand weighing and mounting some of the better rods that cabela's carries and comparing them to the zx trny. For me and my hand and feel and knowing what the components were, I couldn't find a single reason not to buy the cabela's branded pole. and trust me, I was looking for reasons.

In the end, I just couldn't make the 13 fishing Omen rod feel good in my hand. For me, the trigger was at too great of an angle, something like 65-70 degrees, and the space where it met the grip seat was too small for my fingers. It was like a tiny triangle, pinch point and sucked.

I seriously ended up with tender bruises on my knuckles where the trigger was digging into my finger bones when I was testing the rod in the store. For me, it would be a nightmare fishing with that grip for even a single cast.

The small number of reviews that I read which complained about the short handle length, I now understand. They were not bitching about 'total handle length' but about the grip below the reel seat and above the bare blank where the palm should rest when casting. Hell, even when I moved to a more conventional 'post cast', palming position with the trigger between my ring and middle finger, it was very uncomfortable for me to hold that rod.

The piece of cork below the reel seat was no more than 2 1/2", and closer to 2 1/4", in length and tapered aggressively. No matter how I tried to adjust my hand, I ended up with the strongest point of my grip trying to gain leverage on the bare blank and having the, mere 7oz of the test baitcaster, torquing the damn thing sideways in my hand.

The ZX tourney felt good from the get go. There were other rods I tried that felt as good in my hand, but they were +$200. 

The zx T was probably the lightest rod I handled. No joke. Hopefully that doesn't end up being its thin walled downfall, but we will see. Good thing that the big C has a healthy return policy 'cause if that thing shatters, you can believe that it is going back to them in a basket.

The blank on the zxt is a hm64 inner core with a mesh overlay and a hm45outer wrap. It is unfinished and looks very sexy. It looks identical the the exposed 30 ton toray (i still have no idea what this word means) carbon fiber blanks on the equally sexy 13fishing rod. Has that feel like an exposed pencil lead. It shimmers, black, against the light with the waves/ripples/effects of the wrapping evident.

The guides are decent-to-allyourevergonnaneed Pacific bay stainless steel with hialoy inserts (aka: Aluminum Oxide inserts with a hardness rating of 1200-1400 and which fares well against the highly thought of Fuji Alconite aka: Aluminum Oxide inserts with a hardness rating of 1000-1500 and in contention against the Zirconia inserts with a hardness rating of 1000-1400 in the 13fishing omen rods, though those do have a titanium guide).

The damn zxt weighs less than the same length and stiffness and action rod in the omen range.

Why can't I hate you zxt!!!!

So I tried handling and mounting the lefty lew's speed spool on some of the more upscale casting rods. 

Cabela's ZX Platinum: zxt weighs less feels as good, cost a 100 less.

next

Quantum Smoke: zxt weighs less feels as good, cost 50 less.

next

$250 G. Loomis,can't remember... : zxt weighs about the same, feels as good, cost 150 less.

next

some other expensive rod I can't remember, same specs, same result : zxt weighs about the same, feels as good, cost 180 less.

and so here we are...

I'll let you all know if that big C rod fails me, but for now, I've spent more time on this than I did choosing a wife (sorry honey) and I think I've got a winner.

best and goodnight,

the freshwater_newb

P.S.- I still really want to love the 13fishing Omen rods, but they've got to do something about their handles and grips before more meat paws like myself could ever consider buying them.


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

I received my new Lew's speed spool tournament pro (lefty) today and have just, like 10 minutes ago, mounted it on the Cabela's branded ZX tournament model rod I bought a couple days ago at their Columbus location (they didn't have the reel I wanted I stock so I ordered that from tackle warehouse instead).

I plan on writing more in depth about these two items later (no surprises from me there right?  ), but just wanted to say one or two things about my 'at first glance' impressions and an actual fact about these items.

I didn't get the "froggin" rod verision of this line of rods, but instead opted for the more flexible, in terms of specs, "spinnerbait/ swim jig model". The bare graphite is beautiful, and after swinging it around my living room for a while and scaring the family, I love the feel of the winn grip overlays on the on the eva grips. I have to wait and see how it feels after I use it for a bit. 

Most importantly, after weighing the rod on a very sensitive scale, my suspicions about it's lightness were confirmed. This 7'1" MH rod weighs a mere 4.1oz or 116g !! That's like air man.

My lew's reel looks cool and is a very comfortable 6.7oz or 306g. I went for this more expensive model, +$50, because of the 1.2oz or 33.6g weight reduction of the graphite handle and the forged duralumin, drilled spooled over the nearly identical tournament model.

Free association time:

The reel seems smooth as butter. 

I do hate how the side cover is not attached to the reel body; I'm gonna be ready to kill when I end up dropping and losing that thing into whichever water I'm wading in at the time as I try to adjust the braking for each new bit of terminal tackle. Lew's, why you no do this? A string even... sheesh.

The internals beneath that side cover are over lubricated and got oil all over my hands the moment I opened it up to take a look at the centrifugal brake. It discolored the reel housing, though wiped off easily enough, but also got transferred onto my brand new, never used, uncoated, and bare graphite rod. Looks like a 2 year old was touching a computer screen after eating french fries with all those fingerprints I made all over the damn blank. A mighty shame. 

Those are my first outta the box impressions on this combo. Can't wait to use it and I'll post back here when I do.

Oh yeah, just in case no one else did the math: Rod and reel clock in at a very reasonable 10.8oz / 306gr 

120 yds of line ain't gonna add much more weight neither. Hell, this setup is so light I could probably use it as emergency flotation if I ever trip and fall into the drink.


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## Talonman (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks for the post...

I too am days away from ordering a Lew's speed spool tournament pro (lefty).

Love to hear your thoughts about it!


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

Well, it works. 

Took it out to a nearby lily pad choked pond and dragged this little christening out on the 3rd cast.










Still working out the kinks setting the braking system, currently have it with one centrifugal brake engaged and the mag brake set to #4 for the 1/2oz booya frog. I can dial the mag brake back to #2 when throwing denser lures/weight down to 1/4oz.

Still get the occasional birds nest chucking the frog very long distances though. Still needs some fine tuning.

Though the cast control knob has a clicker, with a fairly large number of stops, it has very little functionality since with the 1/4oz and 1/2oz weights and lures I tested, going up one click has the lure locked in place and going back down one click has the lure plummeting to the ground. There is only a small sweet spot in between a single click point where the lure descends at an acceptable rate and doesn't overrun the spool. 

Kind of pointless then to have clicks I'll never hear. The adjustments of the cast control are just to gross and clumsy to merit a clicker. It should have finer tuning where a single click is only a fraction of pressure applied or loosened as opposed to a single click being the difference between lockdown or total freespool.

I'm also beginning to feel like I got too stiff of a rod if I want to use this as more of an all-rounder instead of a dedicated frogging rod. I probably should have chosen the 7'1" medium with the moderate-fast tip as opposed to the 7'1" MH with fast tip that I did purchase. 

My accuracy when casting is about 13 feet left of where I want it to go when casting the 1/2 oz frog so I've been compensating a bit and still not too happy with the results.

Also can't walk the dog very easily with the stiff backbone on this rod makes presentation a little rough.


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## Talonman (Sep 12, 2013)

You said that you currently have 'one centrifugal brake engaged'.
I think they work best in pairs... on the opposite side of the ring.
Put 2 on or off at a time, not 1, located on the opposite side of the ring.

You are also giving me second thoughts about getting a heavy action froggin rod, with a fast tip. It may not be the way to go.

Rather shocked about your report on the cast control knob.
I will see if mine has issues functioning well too, with only 1 click that is the sweet spot for all lures.


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

nah, it's ok to have only one engaged, but if you activate an even number of brakes they should be opposite of each other. 

The cast control thing has me kinda irked. It preforms as I described with zero centrifugal and zero mag brakes all the way through various combinations up to all 4 centrifugal and #8 mag brake.

I have not tested it with anything higher than 1/2oz so far and as low as 1/4oz. 1/4oz with a single weight and with a 1/4 jig head (have not attempted 1/4oz with a non dense lure yet) 1/2 oz was done with a weight and the frog - which I weighed to within 1 gram of 1/2 oz- I tossed the frog in very light cross breeze today and across/away/and into a slight breeze today.

For the tests I described, I merely moved the cast control knob a miniscule amount, nearly imperceptible, for different weight and density lures. I wish I could tell you it wasn't so, but that's what happened to me.

be back in a minute to finish this post as i gotta go help my kids



Talonman said:


> You said that you currently have 'one centrifugal brake engaged'.
> I think they work best in pairs... on the opposite side of the ring.
> Put 2 on or off at a time, not 1, located on the opposite side of the ring.
> 
> ...


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## Talonman (Sep 12, 2013)

Sounds good... Keep us posted.

I didn't know that we are fine to only engage one centrifugal brake.
Thanks for the info.


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

so anyway, in regards to the cast control knob, I hope that maybe I got a lemon? 

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to mention the damn Lew's logo. It is literally a soft, vinyl, raised like a pillow sticker carelessly put on at the last moment. My reel came out of the box, brand new, with the damn sticker hanging on by a corner. I pressed it back in place, but the thing isn't gonna last more than a week on the reel, even merely sitting in the back of my car.

I still like the Lew's reel for all the other good stuff that's been said about it before, even though those little things I just mentioned seem to have been glossed over in pretty much everything I read. As far as I'm concerned about the small things that don't really matter all that much, the over lubrication, the really f'in bush league company logo sticker, it's basically a beautiful girl with a winning smile and great personality, but it's got a big pimple on its ass.

The issue with the cast control knob is BS though and not in the easily forgivable category like those small details mentioned above. 

If anyone else around here has a Lew's Tournament Pro, I'd really like to hear if you have experienced the same issue with the cast control. I really do hope I got a lemon so I can return it and get a properly working reel.


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

Newb, patience is the name of the game here. If this is the first MH to you've used (for bass anyway) it will take time getting used to.

You'll be glad you got that rod the first time you actually have to horse a good sized fish up out of the brush! 

Also, try holding the rod in slightly different ways. I've found that my newest rod is much stiffer and has a longer handle than my older rod. I was having trouble walking the dog, and getting soft "pops" on the lures. What I found was if I hold the rod at a different angle than my old rod I could easily do the same things with it.

Most of all, give it a little time. To me, different rods handle different, even when they are rated the same. Like people you have to use trial and error to figure out It's "personality." The whole first week with my new rod I had to fight the urge to go back to my old rod, which I knew was inferior. After a couple times out and trial and error I haven't even thought about the old rod.

Mr. A


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## Talonman (Sep 12, 2013)

Mr A...

Based on your posting, I just wrote '[email protected]'

I am asking them to pick me out a froggin rod.
I will be looking forward to what they recommend.

I let them know they have a fan here at http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/ named Mr.A!!


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

Thank you! Tell Mr. Snow I'm still waiting on my shirt too!

Mr. A


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## Talonman (Sep 12, 2013)

I gave them the link to this thread.


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

Just got off the phone with a tech from Lew's and we troubleshot the issue with the cast control knob over the phone. Turns out the spring clip holding in the spool bearing under the cap was not seated fully because it was bent inward on one side like a G instead of being straight like a C.

They are sending me out a new part and we'll see how it goes when I get and install it.

They said there should be multiple degrees of tension and what I experienced is an anomaly. 

So that's good news. Glad I got a lemon and Lew's still rocks.

Bad news is I can't use the reel again until the part gets here  Guess I'll have to do some chores around the house instead of going fishing this afternoon.


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## Talonman (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks so much for the post...

Mine will be here the 8th. I am resting easier now.

Also love to hear you received good customer service by a Lew's tech.

Outstanding!


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

The Lew's people were awesome to deal with.

They even let me know I could swab out all that overlubrication my reel's innards were suffering from.


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