# 9 mm



## Steelhauler (Apr 7, 2004)

Hey guys,

My wife is concerned because I fish out of Cleveland and the launch ramps aren't exactly the safest of places in the wee hours or late at night. So to appease her, I'm planning on getting a 9mm and a CCW. My question to you is which do you prefer, a compact 3.8" barrel or a 4.5 inch barrel? I'm just trying to make an informed choice. Thanks in advance for your advise.

Wes


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## gumbygold (Apr 9, 2013)

Depends on how you'll carry it. I have an sr9c. Forget how long.


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## joe1968 (Oct 7, 2014)

I carry a S&W MP shield in 9mm. 3.5 barrel and a IWB holster. Very comfortable to wear and the gun shoots wonderful. There is a lot of info on conceal carry guns, just need to read!


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## Nate167 (May 1, 2009)

I also carry the shield in a n8 holster. Small compact and not noticeable when carrying. The best thing to do is go to the store and hold the guns in your hand to see what feels the best to you and what would be the most comfortable to you to carry. To me the length of the barrel isnt as important as getting to the range and practing with the gun. If you do have that time you have to use it your rance practice time will be more usefull than the length of the barrel in my opinion


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## mck1975 (Jun 18, 2009)

I'll throw out the Springfield XD sub compact. Great shooter and concealable. I also carry the Sig P238 - .380acp that I would not want to be hit with.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

no need for my idiot reply


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

Barrel length & weight do matter. Carrying gun is no fun, unless you are an idiot. The easier it is to carry the more likely you "will" carry it. Guys buy big guns and end up leaving them at home. The gun is for SD, not
to attack a enemy position. This means relatively short range so short barrel is no disadvantage. In the 9mm
class the S&W Shield is a good buy. If you look around they can be had for $325 new. There are other good
ones on the market by major brands. If you are worried enough to carry a gun don't buy a off brand cheapy.
I worked construction in Cleveland in the 80's, in evening when we went to eat and have a few cold ones
I had a S&W 38 in my pocket. Never took it out, but made me feel safe in a few instances.


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## mck1975 (Jun 18, 2009)

Here is my easy carry!


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

mck1975 said:


> Here is my easy carry!


Im thinking of picking up a 938


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## wildlife53 (Jun 12, 2011)

Where can you get a Shield for $325 on sale?


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## Steelhauler (Apr 7, 2004)

Thanks for all the info guys. It will help in my decision. 

Wes


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

nowdays, there is multiple gun ranges that rent guns. Try that route...


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## Slikster (Jul 14, 2005)

Indeed, it's best to always try a gun before you buy it if possible. Then you can get an idea of how it handles, felt recoil etc. But that's not always possible. If you do know of a range that rents guns, do some research online first. Familiarize yourself with the guns that fit your needs, then go rent as many as you can. Most ranges will let you rent a gun for X Amount, then bring it back and switch it for another for a few extra bucks.

If you want something small, easy to conceal, and 9mm, the M&P Shield is top of the list of suggestions that I'd make. They can also be had in 40 Cal if it interests you. There's also the Springfield XD series. The XDs models are available in both 9mm and .45, and the .45 isn't that bad to shoot at all if you want a bigger round. Glock has the new ultra compact 9mm released earlier this year, forget it's model number though. Haven't fired one, but have heard good things about them since the initial bugs were worked out. If you're familiar and proficient with 1911 style guns, the Sig Sauer 939 is an excellent gun, though rather expensive compared to the others. Beretta Nano gets an honorable mention. It's a chunky little 9mm, but very easy to shoot. Owned one of the initial runs, and it was picky about the ammo it would cycle so I sold it. That was almost 4 years ago, so that should be remedied by now.

Don't rule out a good revolver. If you're worried about someone up close and personal, I'd pick a small revolver over a semi auto any day of the week. Good 38 Sp +P hollow points up close are every bit as effective as 9mm. A revolver rarely malfunctions, if ever, especially a quality one. If a round fails to fire, there's no racking the slide to clear a dead round in the heat of the moment under stress. Just keep pulling the trigger. S&W or Ruger would be tops in the revolver department. The S&W Airweights can be carried in a pants pocket and you won't know it's there. A short barrel Model 60 would be a bit heavier, but allow the option of carrying .357 if you really wanted to make a lasting impression on a bad guy. A Ruger LCR can be had in .38 and .357. They're all good light weight options as well.

The revolver I'd suggest is the Ruger SP101. You can get the 2.25in barrel in .357 with a hammer, or hammerless double action only. It's the heaviest of the "snubnose" revolvers out there. But they're built like a tank, and with a good holster, it's well worth carrying. I carry one daily in a Simply Rugged Silver Dollar holster with no issues at all. And if 5 rounds of .38 +P or .357 isn't enough to stop a bad guy, at 25oz, I can always beat him senseless with the empty gun!


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

+P hollow points are better than a 9mm in any situation.


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## mike oehme (Aug 17, 2014)

look into the S&W M&P in 9mm. I love that gun. I use it for my ccw. The gun holds 18 rounds, one chambered and 17 in the mag. if you cant hit your target with 18 rounds, you dont need a ccw, you need glasses.


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## joebertin (Mar 26, 2010)

Drm50 said:


> +P hollow points are better than a 9mm in any situation.


In what way?


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

Check velocity of +p vs 9mm also bullet weight. 9mm is 38 spec dupe at best.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

Keep in mind some ranges will want you to use their ammo in their guns. I found only one close range that would allow your own ammo so long as it isnt a reload.


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## Skippy (Dec 2, 2009)

You mite want to think stainless also. Carried a Kahr P380 for a few years now. Fits right in a coat or jacket pocket. At times I use a Galco clip on belt holster. Remington makes a home defense round that just destroys a 1/2 gallon milk jug filled with water. If you go with a revolver, go with a hamerless one. Remember these are up close and personal guns and I do HOPE you never have to use it.


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## mike oehme (Aug 17, 2014)

A 380 is a good summer ccw weapon, but you only have 7 yo 8 shots Tops, but if you go with a 9 mm year round, nothing beats the S&W M&P 9mm.It preforms better than a Sig 9mm and maybe a Kimber 9mm. You want a good 9mm got with the Smith& Wesson M&P 9mm.


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

First find a model YOU like, don't worry what everyone else likes. I carry any one of 3, a 3" Sig Ultra Carry 1911 in a .45, A 4" Commander 1911 in a .45, and a 3" Smith M&P .40. I don't worry about small because they all pack well and carry very easy even wearing shorts.
I saw the +P loads mentioned above, my advise on that is look at the manufacturer specs on the pistol, most poly gun manufacturers tell you NOT to use them in their guns.
What ever you choose get out and shoot it a lot so you know every movement of the pistol until it becomes second nature firing it, then your ready to carry it.
Personally I don't enjoy the recoil of the small lighter pistols, especially the Shield, I've shot it in both the 9mm and the .40 and really don't like how it preforms, but that's my opinion.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Dovans said:


> Im thinking of picking up a 938


Great pistol.


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## tm1669 (Apr 27, 2007)

Drm50 said:


> Check velocity of +p vs 9mm also bullet weight. 9mm is 38 spec dupe at best.


Your statement makes no sense and is incorrect at best . 
Speer 125 grn Gold Dot 38Spl+P= 945 fps at the muzzle and produces 248 ft lbs
Speer 124 Grain Gold Dot 9mm+P= 1220 fps at the muzzle and produces 324 ft lbs
Which do you think is the better choice?


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

The 9's can be taken to around 1275 at best in a 95 grn bullet and 1250 in a 121 grn bullet but the 158 would probably be my choice and only goes around 1050 on the top end.In the 38 spec you can push the 158 just past 1000 fps. *BUT all things being equal loading each with the same charge and bullet weight the .38 edges out the 9mm.*


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## wildlife53 (Jun 12, 2011)

Speed of the bullet really doesn't matter if this is for protection. It really doesn't matter if you are hit with a .38 or 9mm. It's all in accuracy and what YOU shoot the best. 

A miss is a miss (unless you hit someone other than your target) and is nothing more than a loud noise and a loud noise from a 38 or a 9mm has never killed anyone.


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## tm1669 (Apr 27, 2007)

Popspastime said:


> The 9's can be taken to around 1275 at best in a 95 grn bullet and 1250 in a 121 grn bullet but the 158 would probably be my choice and only goes around 1050 on the top end.In the 38 spec you can push the 158 just past 1000 fps. *BUT all things being equal loading each with the same charge and bullet weight the .38 edges out the 9mm.*


Again. 
Heres the specs for a 9mm+P and 38+P with near identical bullet's in 38spl +P 
Speer 125 grn Gold Dot 38Spl+P= 945 fps at the muzzle and produces 248 ft lbs
Speer 124 Grain Gold Dot 9mm+P= 1220 fps at the muzzle and produces 324 ft lbs. 
More velocity plus more energy = more effective terminal ballistics. 
On paper and in the lab the 9mm+P is superior. If someone is more comfortable with the 38 revolver over the 9mm than you have just trumped any advantage the superior ballistics would give you and they should go with what they shoot better and are more comfortable with. 
95 grain 9mm+P loads can be in the 1450-1500 fps range out of 4 inch barrels. Smokin fast. 
I've already shown the 124 grain weight in 9mm. Getting into a 147grn or 158 (????) 9mm load is asking the bullet to do something it wasn't designed to do in my opinion. For self defense and concealed carry the 9mm is at its best with mid weight, premium expanding hollowpoint bullets. My preference is the Speer Gold Dot 9mm +P so thats why I used that comparison. 
Pushing a 158 grain 38spl into 1000+ fps is possible out of a full size 6 inch revolver that can handle 30,000+ psi I suppose but were talking about carry guns here so its really irrelevant. 
Trying to get 1000+ fps out of 158 grain bullets in a 38spl concealed carry gun--Forget about it!! 
Go get a 2" 357 magnum and have at it if you want to get up there. There are lots of hardly used 2" 357 magnum revolvers to be had. For a reason!
Bullet speed is absolutely critical when you are talking about reliable hollow point bullet expansion with today's premium bullets and the 9mm is ALL about good bullet expansion to make it a reliable man stopper. Ultimately, it is about what combination of handgun and caliber you shoot the best but you want that bullet to do its optimal job when you do your job correctly and put the bullets into the target. 
Most major firearms manufacturers rate their polymer pistols for +P ammunition use although some put warnings about accelerated wear on the guns using them. Glock actually designed their 9mm's around the +P load. I have over 15,000 rounds through my Glock 17 with lots of +P's and +P+ pressure loads. Its had a few new springs here and there but shoots better than new. Cant break it. 
There is no magic caliber or pistol.. All you can do when your limited to arming yourself with a handgun is make sure you can put the hits where they count and that comes from practice and training (not the same thing by the way). In my opinion -the best and only practical use for a handgun is to use it to fight your way to a rifle or shotgun when you need it. The rest falls into the victim of circumstances category.


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

tm1669 said:


> Again.
> Heres the specs for a 9mm+P and 38+P with near identical bullet's in 38spl +P
> Speer 125 grn Gold Dot 38Spl+P= 945 fps at the muzzle and produces 248 ft lbs
> Speer 124 Grain Gold Dot 9mm+P= 1220 fps at the muzzle and produces 324 ft lbs.
> ...


I don't know where you get your info but it's not even close on the 38 special. And if you going to shoot a 95 grain for a stopper?? well that's your choice but not mine. Lets face it your NOT going to find a 38 special offered in any poly gun I know of so this convo is null. I don't care what your carrying but when you look down the business end of any of them your about to have a bad day.
Just get what you like, and what you can shoot and handle.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

Popspastime said:


> I don't know where you get your info but it's not even close on the 38 special. And if you going to shoot a 95 grain for a stopper?? well that's your choice but not mine. Lets face it your NOT going to find a 38 special offered in any poly gun I know of so this convo is null. I don't care what your carrying but when you look down the business end of any of them your about to have a bad day.
> Just get what you like, and what you can shoot and handle.


I have a 4" XD and a Glock 19 on the compact side of 9MMs, both guns have worked really well for me, for the most part I shoot bullet weights between 115-124gr(mainly because they are the most common) its always been my opinion if you get hit in the boiler room with a 115gr chunk of lead coming after me or my stuff is going to fall down your list of priorities, get the gun you feel most comfortable with.


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## Hortance (Jun 10, 2014)

Slikster said:


> Indeed, it's best to always try a gun before you buy it if possible. Then you can get an idea of how it handles, felt recoil etc. But that's not always possible. If you do know of a range that rents guns, do some research online first. Familiarize yourself with the guns that fit your needs, then go rent as many as you can. Most ranges will let you rent a gun for X Amount, then bring it back and switch it for another for a few extra bucks.
> 
> If you want something small, easy to conceal, and 9mm, the M&P Shield is top of the list of suggestions that I'd make. They can also be had in 40 Cal if it interests you. There's also the Springfield XD series. The XDs models are available in both 9mm and .45, and the .45 isn't that bad to shoot at all if you want a bigger round. Glock has the new ultra compact 9mm released earlier this year, forget it's model number though. Haven't fired one, but have heard good things about them since the initial bugs were worked out. If you're familiar and proficient with 1911 style guns, the Sig Sauer 939 is an excellent gun, though rather expensive compared to the others. Beretta Nano gets an honorable mention. It's a chunky little 9mm, but very easy to shoot. Owned one of the initial runs, and it was picky about the ammo it would cycle so I sold it. That was almost 4 years ago, so that should be remedied by now.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. Obviously, his gun is for SD emergencies. Dependability is #1. Revolver with hollow points does the job. I'd skip hammerless, though. It costs more, all being equal, and most uses of a gun are to scare off the assailant, not shoot them. Cocking the hammer to show you're serious is a good start. Spend the extra $$ on bumping up the size of the round. I carry a 9mm myself, own two, but shoot them all the time and know them well.


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## tm1669 (Apr 27, 2007)

Popspastime said:


> I don't know where you get your info but it's not even close on the 38 special. And if you going to shoot a 95 grain for a stopper?? well that's your choice but not mine. Lets face it your NOT going to find a 38 special offered in any poly gun I know of so this convo is null. I don't care what your carrying but when you look down the business end of any of them your about to have a bad day.
> Just get what you like, and what you can shoot and handle.


Info for the 38 spl ballistics are directly from Speer. Its right there on the website. 
I wasn't advocating using a 9mm 95 grain bullet for a "stopper'", just want to make sure the correct info is out there. 
Check out the Ruger LCR and Taurus 85 Poly protector for some nice poly frame revolvers. Even Smith&Wesson bodyguard has a polymer frame. Very nice guns in both 38 spl +P and 357 magnum. 
If I were carrying a revolver its the Ruger LCR in 357 but carried with 38+P for me.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Hortance said:


> . It costs more, all being equal, and most uses of a gun are to scare off the assailant, not shoot them. Cocking the hammer to show you're serious is a good start.


I disagree. Brandishing my weapon to scare someone off isn't gonna happen. If it comes out, likely it's gonna go off and I don't wanna have to "cock the hammer". That is kinda like the old "racking the slide" of a shotgun will scare them off. NOT!


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## mck1975 (Jun 18, 2009)

wildlife53 said:


> Speed of the bullet really doesn't matter if this is for protection. It really doesn't matter if you are hit with a .38 or 9mm. It's all in accuracy and what YOU shoot the best.
> 
> A miss is a miss (unless you hit someone other than your target) and is nothing more than a loud noise and a loud noise from a 38 or a 9mm has never killed anyone.


EXTREMELY GREAT COMMENT! Been my stance for the longest time in all the caliber wars I could not avoid. Thank You.


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## blackxpress (Nov 20, 2009)

Amazing. 33 posts and I'm only the second one to mention Glock. I've carried a lot of different handguns over the years and never had one I liked as well as my Glock 23. If you're set on 9mm, the Glock 19 is the same gun, only in 9 instead of 40 S&W. As long as you're trying out guns at the range you should definitely try a G19 just to see if you like it. And don't listen to those who say 9mm isn't good enough (blah, blah). I carry a .40 just because I'm a big .40 fan (I'm weird like that) but would have no qualms about carrying a 9 as my primary. If you study handgun ballistics you'll see that all the premium ammo in the major service calibers meets FBI requirements for penetration and expansion. A G19 with 16 rounds of Speer Gold Dot and a spare mag should be plenty of gun, providing you train with it enough to be able to put rounds on target.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

CZ makes a really nice, accurate semi auto. I love my alloy frame CZ75 compact.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Just to back up Blackexpress, Shot a glock 42 at range and was very impressed with the accuracy.


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## tm1669 (Apr 27, 2007)

Dovans said:


> Just to back up Blackexpress, Shot a glock 42 at range and was very impressed with the accuracy.


Glock 42 is a 380.. Need to find a 43 for a 9mm. 
I shot the 43 pretty extensively a few weeks ago and was nothing but impressed. Carried and shot very well.


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## CarpetBagger (Sep 21, 2009)

S&W Shield in 40cal....185gr Hydra Shock....Look out...


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## Hortance (Jun 10, 2014)

boatnut said:


> I disagree. Brandishing my weapon to scare someone off isn't gonna happen. If it comes out, likely it's gonna go off and I don't wanna have to "cock the hammer". That is kinda like the old "racking the slide" of a shotgun will scare them off. NOT!


Thats true, I agree. That advice is standard, first 15 minutes of Concealed Carry class..... Don't pull it until you're ready to really use it.....
Just pointing out that brandishing often ends up being enough in practice. From what I've read about the use of guns to prevent crimes. Not suggesting that as a strategy. 
If I was sure they were unarmed, I might warn them, but if they were armed, or I wasn't sure if they were, I'd be firing, too.


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