# Boilies - buy or make?



## leckig

They are pretty expensive, and you need plenty. But it is time consuming to make them. Buy or make? Or maybe you just use corn?
Greg


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## TimJC

I haven't used any this year, and don't plan to. I hope to get back into making them this winter, though.


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## cwcarper

I prefer another option...which is to beg for them  . Honestly, though, I'm still using boilies given to me a few years ago...along with some high attract popups I bought. If you plan on baiting up a bunch with them, I'd definitely say make your own...otherwise buy a few packs of the better flavors and go with that. Overall, I rarely use them...most places corn is better for me.


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## leckig

I have not caught a carp in about 3 weeks. I'm really missing them now. Is this a bad time of year, too hot for carps or what? 
I see them everywhere at Alum and Hoover but they are not biting. Are they eating during the day at all now?
I wanna carp!


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## cwcarper

I've always had trouble getting fish during midsummer...some places it really comes down to hitting the peak feeding times, which are often at night or early early morning this time of year. Some places it comes down to changing locations until you find where the fish hang out in the summer. Since you are seeing fish this doesn't sound like the problem. I know a lot of people who are successful now (and most of the year) typically prebait an area fairly heavily to bring in the fish and get them feeding.


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## RiverRat

IF i were going to use boilies all the time i would make my own. For only using sometimes or just wanting to have some with you incase..buy them.


I prefer to NOT use them as i have yet to see them out perform "other" baits on the river.



As for the "dog days of summer" to still stay consistant, you have to know the carp and the water your fishing very well..i think this time of the year is the toughest...im lucky enough to have figured out my water pretty well. 

Good luck,
Scott


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## leckig

Scott:

Do you mean corn by "other" baits? This is really my questions, should I bother at all? The deal is I just read some statistics from Europe with like 25 biggest carps of 2004. All of them were cought on boilies. The question is if here in the USA do we need to use boilies at all?

I have noticed most waters in Columbus have a thick layer of mud on the bottom. So, I was thinking that my corn is maybe deep in the mud and they cannot see it? My idea was to you pop-up (bouyant) boilies so they can float just above the mud. Is my thinking right or there is too much european thinkering in it?

Greg


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## soua0363

If you want good carp fishing, go to Mohawk Dam in Coschocton County. Just get on the shore and all you need to use is corn on a size 4 hook and bottom fish. They bite pretty consistant all year long even during the middle of summer. Usually you can see them swimming in bunches along the side of the concrete walls where the water flows out.


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## leckig

soua0363 - thanks!
by the way what kid of line do you guys use? it really matters in europe, does it matter much in here?
greg


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## RiverRat

Greg,
First off take everything you know about carp fishing accrossed the pond and throw it out the window.

Thier carp are trained to eat boilies..they will dump about 30 lbs. of thier flavored boiles in a lake to get the carp to feed on it..then come back and fish over top on the beds of boiles. You could do that here, but theres no reason too.

I have personally caught 3 carp over 30 lbs. and all have been caught on either plain or flavored sweetcorn. I do like to flavor chick peas too and have caught loads of carp to mid 20's on them . BUT i also always fish the "method" and all my big fish have come from this combo.
These fish here are simple and just like to eat....i chum a lot, but not as much as some of the guys on the board, i feel too much chum gets them eating it.not your hook baits.
I like to chum a spot heavy for a few days, then come in to fish it and chum lightly..that way they will find my baits faster instead of searching around for free baits. My whole idea of chuming a river is to draw fish from down stream into my swim and hold them there for a few days...i chum enough to get them feeding with out filling them up. I also prefer to fish areas that no other carpers are fishing..i dont like to fish the "popular" spots, i put the work in myself..and reap the rewards..like i have been.

I like to read about the carping over-seas myself and read the techniques and about the equipment, but i apply that knowlege to fit my sytle and waters..thats all.

There are waters in the USA that are heavily fished by carpers and some are turning into boilie waters...but NONE of them are in Ohio and are fish have to be trained to take boilies...ive caught on them here, but i know better baits and i use them.

Maybe you should ask the CAG members how many of the big fish caught during the carp events have been caught on boilies? How many of them catch big carp on boilies on thier home waters? I know ive caught a dozen or more carp over 20 lbs. already this year...none on boilies. If boilies were a great bait, i'd be using them....i'd fish next to anyone who uses boiles on a wild water thats never seen a carp angler before and i'd bet my carp gear i'd out catch them....its happened too many times already!

On lakes it might be different, even though ive done way better than most at the CAG events in my time and these have been lakes....but i prefer to stick to what i know and love...RIVERS for me!!


Scott


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## RiverRat

Also, i do sometimes "pop-up" my baits to get them out of the silt IF the whole area is heavily silted..but i try to find some type of hard bottom(sand, rock, gravel, ect). Getting your baits off bottom can be a big difference in your catch rates.


As far as line, i mostly run 12 lbs. test copolymer lines, i dont like the super braids and regular mono lines tend to be stiff and coil too easily. I only have a few places that i need to go heavier than 12lb test...but i still dont go over 17 lb. test in those places.


I also ALWAYS use a heavy braided leader(hooklink) , i think im using 80 lb test Stren superbraid...its the ONLY use ive found for super lines. I also us a heavy duty hook and i use only one pattern of hook... Ashima RD2 is my choice. Ive tried many others, but i have broke many of these other patterns and when fishing for big river carp, your hook has to be strong, sharp and the RD2 #4 is the best pattern ive found, too bad they dont make them anymore..lol luckly i bought 300 of them . There are a few company that make this pattern of hook, ive tried them and like them, but there still not as heavy duty as my Ashima's. I stay away from Eagle Claws baitholder(junk)..even the Gamakatsu baitholder breaks easily, i dont like long shank hooks...i find a more compact hook works much better, holds better and gives hard fighting carp no chance at tossing it or breaking it.

Scott


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## leckig

Scott, thanks for this answer. I feel I need to email you right away 
Greg


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## atrkyhntr

I make em.... I like the control I have and I like trying diff flavors too

Good info Scott...


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## RiverRat

I went the boile route last year and i purchased around $200 from the Boilie Shop http://www.boilieshopusa.com/index.html
I caught on every flavor i bought and i'd say they are the best made boilies in the USA......but again ive caught WAY better on other baits.

If i was going to be a boilie chucker, i'd buy mine from the Boilie Shop or a very well known UK based company...but again the cost would be a factor, plus ive heard horror stories of guys baits getting taken by the US Customs and destoyed because of ingredents like fish meals, ect.


Im not totally against boilies, but like ive said i have yet to see boilies out fish my baits in any event or while fishing on home waters. If your looking at catching BIG carp and finding a magic bait to do it with...GOOD LUCK, if you browse the Ohio forum and look at big carp...you wont find many at al that have caught BIG carp...big to most is anything over 20 lbs. big to me is over 30 lbs. and not many can brag on those.


Scott


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## RiverRat

Guys, thanks....please dont think im putting anyone down that uses boiles or feels that they are the best..im just going by my experiences and what i know.....rrbski or Buckeye Bob makes probably the best boiles in the USA and he can sure prove they catch loads of carp....but again ive seen baits out produce them in size and quantity.
Im just a river angler that loves to catch lots of big fish....i used my baits last night to catch 16 carp up to 23 lbs....not a bad night on the river for me...but an AWSOME dream for some.


Scott


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## leckig

you are right - a dream for some!

great info!
gl


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## RiverRat

Clyde,
I like the same thing with my baits...i control the amont of flavors and which flavors i use. I have over 50 flavors on my shelf and have put together a great pattern on my water and different locations they like different flavors. It also changes from cold water to warm water..but i got that figured out too.
Half the fun of this fishing is figuring out what baits they really hit on...being it your own put together bait and flavor. Some dont have much luch with thier catch rates because i think they expect to drive up to a spot, cast out a "known" carp catching bait or flavor and start catching...lol...not going to happen often. Its almost like bass fishing where ya catch tons on one bait, but the next day nothing....i always carry atleast a dozen flavors that i know from personal experience that catch catch in THAT swim....i will change baits around to i find the ones there on that day..if the bite slows i change baits til i find the "hot" flavor again.
Now i could post on here everything i use, what flavors work best and where...but thats too easy. I could take a carper from this board to my spots, give him the baits that work and watch him catch til he cant lift his arms no more...but what does that do for that angler??
All you need is time and a good game plan on your water....but that comes with TIME spent on your water.



Good luck guys,

Scott


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## crappielooker

have fun is where its all at for me.. 
as far as boilies goes, i know i have been trying to use it every now and then.. when i want to catch a catfish, that is..


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## RiverRat

Thats right AK....Alum creek..... 16mm Tutti Frutti flavored boilies, channel catfish killer..lol..geez! Then again they took to almost ALL my flavors there..lol.

Scott


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## soua0363

Leckig, I use Berkley 15# Big Game and it has never failed me from bass to muskie. Its my favorite line. I can pull in water soaked logs and it can even bend the hook straight without breaking the line.


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## Miso_Ohio

RiverRat said:


> Guys, thanks....please dont think im putting anyone down that uses boiles or feels that they are the best..im just going by my experiences and what i know.....rrbski or Buckeye Bob makes probably the best boiles in the USA and he can sure prove they catch loads of carp....but again ive seen baits out produce them in size and quantity.
> Im just a river angler that loves to catch lots of big fish....i used my baits last night to catch 16 carp up to 23 lbs....not a bad night on the river for me...but an AWSOME dream for some.
> 
> 
> Scott


Kind of hard to think one is the best when someone else already knows they are the best  

As for boilies outfishing corn, no it does not happen often but when it does (and it happens on the river as well) it makes you wish you had some in the tackle. For that I would have to agree with Scott and you are better off with Boilie Shop boilies. Ideally it would be Buckeye Bobs Pine/Ban boilie or his Tutti he worked on last year, preferably in one of his pack baits. 

Flavored corn does work well but if you pick the wrong flavor it can be a nightmare. If you are unsure stick to plain corn with at most some vanilla, anise or maple flavorings, one of them is bound to work. Granted some obscure "Wild River Carp Scent: Hot Cinnamon" may be the hot ticket for most of that day, you will still be catching. Maybe not as much but catching none the same on one of those three base flavors that you can buy at Krogers. 

As for me I have been outfished by Buckeye Bob many of times with him using boilies, a couple times on the Sciota, plus there was a River days event 2 years ago where I think every fish caught was on boilies. They just did not want corn that day for some reason. I finally had one on a bread flower that I lost at the bank after the event ended. That was the day I decided I would always have a couple flavors of Boilies in the tackle bag at all times, of course being the cheap stake I am I have made them all by hand. I guess I can only just dream... Hmmm I wonder....


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## RiverRat

Ive sat next to other anglers while they catch nothing...but my alarms keep on screamin. It all comes down to baits..IF the area has carp in it...if not then chum is #1.

Facts:
Last year at East Harbor, top 3 total numbers where caught by anglers using either maise(hard feild corn) or flavored sweetcorn.
COSI last Nov. 2 anglers killed the carp up to 18 lbs. on flavored chick peas, while few anglers caught a handful.
East Harbor 2005, one angler caught 30 total carp including a 21 lber 15 mins before the event start...on flavored sweet corn.

Only 30 lb. carp landed in 2004 winter..highly flavored sweetcorn. 2004 summer/fall two carp over 30 lbs. being 34 & 36 lbs. caught on either plain or flavored sweetcorn.

BUT all fish above where also caught using the "method" and GOOD chuming practices.

Greg, dont take my word for it..ask around and see what everyones BIG fish come on..i bet ya its corn that wins the vote. This aint Texas or the UK guys..these fish are'nt that pressured or smart. Most of the areas i fish have only seen riends baits or mine...true "wild " carp.

Scott


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## crappielooker

i gotta say.. if i can buy or get any boilies in the world.. i would hands down tryin my darnest to get bob's boilies.. anything else is just chum..  
but in reality, i can only afford cheap baits, and flavor.. i learned to adapt my way of fishing to suit MY conditions and location of where i'm fishing.. where you are might be totally different.. i just don't have the funds to get there.. all i have is time spend on the bank..


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## cwcarper

I've said this before, but I'm going to restate it again for the purpose of this discussion, that it's my belief that way too much emphasis is placed on both bait choices and flavors. I think everyone would agree that location is the most important factor in finding and catching carp (and all other fish). To me, though, presentation in both how your hookbait sits in the water as well as how consistently you put your chum and your hookbait in the right place are much more important than what flavor of bait you are using. While it is important that you have some variety to choose from, particularly if you are fishing a new swim...different flavors and different baits relate more to the confidence of the angler than the ability to catch fish (the exception being highly pressured waters). 

The past few years I've been able to fish with some very good carp anglers. One thing I find in common with them all is that they are able to put their bait wherever they want it, whenever they want it there. Rather than broadcasting their chum all over the place, they keep it concentrated in one tight area, either by spodding, catapulting, packbaiting, or using the method, and they consistently pull fish from this area. Usually, it didn't matter what bait they used...even though a lot of people like to attribute their success to some sort of magic bait. Many times I've seen plain maize outfish everything else being used, just because it was being consistently placed in the right spot. As Scott mentioned, Buckeye Bob has probably outfished all of us at one time or another, and me many times. 90% of the time I've fished with him he used his magic pineapple banana boilies (I still have some, and they do catch fish, but aren't magic). However, he also used packbait on almost every cast, and kept his casts within a very narrow diameter. 

You can tinker with all the flavors and baits you want...which I agree can be a big part of the fun in fishing. But don't let anyone lead you to believe you need these baits or flavors to catch fish. The most important thing is to spend time on the water, find what works best for you...and practice putting your bait where it needs to be. Every single time. I'm certainly no expert, but putting this into practice has given me a fair share of 15 - 20 fish days when I fish places where this type of consistent action could be expected.


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## TimJC

I agree 110%. It truly is all about "location, location, location." First you must find a water with carp. Then a particular feeding area. Then place your bait and chum all in that one small spot. Then it is about presentation and maybe bait later.


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## GMR_Guy

RiverRat said:


> Greg, dont take my word for it..ask around and see what everyones BIG fish come on..i bet ya its corn that wins the vote. This aint Texas or the UK guys..these fish are'nt that pressured or smart. Most of the areas i fish have only seen riends baits or mine...true "wild " carp.
> 
> Scott


 I'll have to say that I agree with you 100%. Plain old corn will do the job the majority of the time. I've fished a lot of baits side-by-side with sweetcorn and have not found anything that consistently outcatches it. Still, there may be important exceptions. I've blanked using corn at Cowan Lake on four occasions. And earlier this year, while fishing a tribuatary of Lake Erie, the carp did not seem to wanr sweet corn, but instead wanted unflavored chick peas.


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## RiverRat

Well i thought this was a BAIT thread...boilie or not to boilie..but here goes.

YES number #1 is by far location...if the water you are fishing has a small population and is a large body of water, well then no , no bait will help you catch loads of carp there.

If your fishing any RIVER in columbus, then you've already got one step up on that...i have yet to find an area of the Scioto that doesnt hold carp. I have found many interesting things though:
Certain areas hold lots of mirors & comons...while other areas seem to hold nothing but commons..while other areas hold nothing but commons and buffalo carp, i think i know the reasons behind this, but will keep this conclusion to myself.

If your fishing a water that does hold a good number of carp and your fishing by yourself....well of course your chances of catching is greater..add a few other anglers though and your chances decrease greatly. This is the case where i think chum, method mix and baits matter#1.

I know some of you think its nothing to do with baits...but i know at the "gatherings" ive been too ive watched many of you catch a few to no fish...guess it was only location? Water full of carp and they never came into your swim like other anglers...lol...tell yourself whatever ya need to feel better i guess..to those of us that consistantly catch wherever we go....yup its just the luck of the draw and we get the "better" locations..lol. I know some that hit almost every event..but come away with few fish, while other not far from them haul the fish.....guess location again...guess some just get "stuck" in bad swims is all...lol.

Guess some here have never seen carp rolling out in there swim, but they dont get a take at all...could it be the location? Ive had it happen many times...i quickly switch to a different bait/flavor and bang..quick run. Ive had carp hit hard and fast on one flavor..then turn off, switch to another flavor and back on the fast bite....done this MANY MANY times...if i only had a few flavors i could have missed out on the fish that WERE in my swim the whole time, but didnt hit certain flavors.

Guess not many in here understand the PH levels of the waters they fish either...or what baits/flavors are highly acidic..or high in alkaline...or maybe neutral...??? and when to use each depending on the PH level of the water they are fishing..lol....well im certainly not going into that since location is far more important that some stupid flavor issue.

Oh well, keep on catching guys, TO EACH IS OWN,

Scott


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## leckig

Wow, this is getting pretty scientific here, but the practical side now, how do you do this with flavors? Just to dip bait on hook in a flavor is this good enought? Or they haveto stay in the flavor for minutes, hours? I know the boilies guys use dips. Would it work for corn as well?
greg


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## Miso_Ohio

Greg,

Just ignore most of that up there, kind of funny how in one sentence someone can go on about how easy the carp are here and we do not need to overdo it on baits. Then the next sentence he is going on about 50 different flavors and testing the water's PH level to figure out which one to use. Who is really overdoing this here, him or the 3 or 4 guys (if that) in the state of Ohio who actually use Boilies all the time who he has hardly ever fished with.

In your case I would stay away from the rivers around Columbus if you plan on harvesting smaller fish just to play it safe. As for flavoring corn you can go about it a number of ways, you can simply add some extract and some sugar to the corn and let it sit over night for a more long lasting flavor. You can also use dips they work well too, and probably work even better in a river system since the flavor would drift downstream more. You can even just use plain flavored jello or kool aid in your corn to flavor it anyway you want (strawberry is good). Just keep it simple.

If you want to play with boilies just buy small quantities of them from the Boilie Shop and keep them in the freezer. Take out just what you need you will not got through a bunch of them and they can last a while in your tackle bag. Yes a lot of what Scott said about the 4 events he has gone too in the last year is true, but also consider that over 95% of the lines in the water at these events are fishing corn, kind of a lopsided argument there. Boilies can and will catch fish for you in Ohio, all though in my experience the catfish tend to get to them quicker, but heck it is all fun.


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## RiverRat

Yea ignore me...listen to those who catch the most big fish and numbers of carp like Sean...hes always one of the top catchers in Ohio every year.Since we all know its all about the fun on the bank...NOT catching fish. If you dont understand PH or that knowlege of your baits...then you'll never catch the bigger carp consistantly. Heck just pop open a beer , kick back and hope for a bite.

Anyway, back to baits.

I use 4-6 oz. air tight containers, pour 3/4 full of corn...then add the flavor and amount i prefer to the jar of corn...then i keep in the fridge until its time to fish. I then keep my containers in a Fox Evolution soft sided hookbait cooler with packs of "blue ice" to keep them cool....i then return them to the fridge after the trip. Trust me i have less time & money in my baits then most and i catch loads of carp...and some nice ones at that..nothing complicated here.

I will also add a preservative like 10 Sesh from Wacker baits to keep baits good for a long time...ive had most of my baits now for 5 months with no issues.

If you would like Greg, i'll give ya a more info. in private, since im the idiot who doesnt know anything , so i'll keep my info off the boards.


Scott


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## BuckeyeFishinNut

Hey greg,

All boilies, chickpeas, maize, sweetcorn, and flavored corn are is lures. Just like a bass or walleye fisherman has dozens and dozens of lures and colors for different situations. Some days it might be boilies and others it might be plain sweetcorn. Having a little bit of it all doesn't hurt anyone. I know I always carry multiple flavors of corn and chickpeas. I am not a fan of boilies but I have never really used them so I will reserve judgement but I can echo what Scott has said about having a variety of flavors. There are mnay times where only fruity flavors have worked, or sweet, or salty. Just like a bass won't always hit a white spinnerbait a carp will not always want sweetcorn or tutti-fruity flavored. You can get flavoring anywhere. Paul has them at Wacker baits, you can check Royal Carp and Boilie Shop they have them also. Go to your local store and pick up McCormicks in the baking aisle. Even snow cone flavoring works. Be creative!! Mix flavors and try your own mixture. The worst thing that can happen is it doesnt work. I usually flavor my corn is a small tupperware container or jar and let it sit over night in my fridge. Make sure you keep it cold when not using it or it will go bad quickly. You will find that some flavors do work better in the fall or spring than in the summer and some days plain sweetcorn will kick butt. Just have the flexibility to try multiple flavors. If you know carp are in the area and your not getting runs after 30 mins switch to a different flavor. When fishing 2 rods have a "confidance" bait that you know produces on one rod and switch it up often on the 2nd rod until you find the hot bait. Just have fun out there and find what works best for you. 

P.S. Try the rivers also. COSI area produces some nice fish and try below some of the dams like Griggs, O Shay, Greenlawn and alike. Trust me they produce #'s and size. Don't be afraid to trailblaze a new area either. You might just find a honey hole!

Jake


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## Miso_Ohio

RiverRat said:


> Yea ignore me...listen to those who catch the most big fish and numbers of carp like Sean...hes always one of the top catchers in Ohio every year.Since we all know its all about the fun on the bank...NOT catching fish. If you dont understand PH or that knowlege of your baits...then you'll never catch the bigger carp consistantly. Heck just pop open a beer , kick back and hope for a bite.
> 
> Anyway, back to baits.
> 
> I use 4-6 oz. air tight containers, pour 3/4 full of corn...then add the flavor and amount i prefer to the jar of corn...then i keep in the fridge until its time to fish. I then keep my containers in a Fox Evolution soft sided hookbait cooler with packs of "blue ice" to keep them cool....i then return them to the fridge after the trip. Trust me i have less time & money in my baits then most and i catch loads of carp...and some nice ones at that..nothing complicated here.
> 
> I will also add a preservative like 10 Sesh from Wacker baits to keep baits good for a long time...ive had most of my baits now for 5 months with no issues.
> 
> If you would like Greg, i'll give ya a more info. in private, since im the idiot who doesnt know anything , so i'll keep my info off the boards.
> 
> 
> Scott


Scott if you would read a little into Greg's post I do not believe he is after the largest fish possible. Last I heard he was trying to find some decent clean water where he can catch a couple larger ones (mid teens and up) and also land a small sub 3 lb fish to harvest, an camping would be nice. That is my take on the situation, in his country carp is a delicacy and he tried to harvest a larger one earlier this year and it was not too good. For that reason I mentioning him to stay away from the rivers for that purpose, because I would not even recommend eating a Saugeye from there. If that is not the plan Greg I am sorry go ahead and PM Scott and ask him to take you to one of his hot spots to catch some monster fish with him.

Sorry if I don't catch the huge 30+ and 40+ lb fish that you do, did not realize that put me in a lower bracket from you, but I do catch my share and have a good time (I still think a 20+ Lb fish is a good fish). If I happen to stumble accross a larger fish in my travels then so be it otherwise I am hapy just scouting around. So far this year I have fished over 17 new spots and waters have caught decently on all, nothing over 30 mind you but I had a good time. I have also introduce over 8 people to carp fishing and I think they all had a good time and are now able to catch fish on thier own poles, not any specialized Euro stuff where while nice most cannot afford. 

For me the season has already been a success because of all of that. Granted I could not get out as much this year as I could in the past because of some family issues (do not go there) but I have had fun all the same. I have caught decent Crappie, Saugeye, Smallmouths, Catfish, Walleye, Perch, Turtles (  ), Blue Gills (Ice), and the list goes on. You are the one who has to constantly keep bringing up all of your big fish acomplishments, I can think of no other reason to do so except to prove that you are the king carper of all of Ohio and maybe even the world. I have done nothing of the sort but to offer advice to someone that they can actually use to get started with, no use over complicating things. I guess it must be lonely at the top, I sure would not know.


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## Miso_Ohio

By the way I am done with this discussion I have said all that I am gonna say on it, you can rip me all you want Scott. My advice is right there in plain english in this thread, I am not hiding anything or holding anything back. But keep in mind Greg that Scott is right I am not a big fish hunter like he is but I do have my moments.

If you want to play with other baits then play, it is all about having fun. Come out to a CAG carp in sometime and hang out, you can see some of the stuff we are all talking about. The events are listed at CAG Ohio, they are 100% open to the public you do not need to be a member to fish these events.


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## BuckeyeFishinNut

This turned out to be an interesting thread...HAHA. All I can say is that I don't really lake fish and some of those areas I told you about hold fish, I have caught many carp of all sizes below those dams and the areas underneather them. I didn't know you were into harvesting smaller carp but I have seen some very clean looking carp come out of the Scioto but I would take a lake fish over a Scioto fish. Once again, just have fun with it. Give all those baits a try. Get some in small quantities and if they work for ya get more and if they dont record that for the future. I keep a database of what flavors work on what waters and at what time of the year along with the weather and water conditions. I also keep track of what flavors and baits didn't work. The research is good and will help you in the future. Good Luck man.

Jake


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## leckig

Thanks guys! 
I really do not mind to harvest a carp, but is sooo much mess with this, so if nono of my buddies want to help me witht this, I just give up and let the fish swim some more 

It is really interesting to read all your opinions. It is kind of hard to believe that carp would really be so picky and sometimes prefered vanilla or strawberry. What would be any logical reason for it? 
They do not have that much choices in the water. It really may be up to the chemistry, that some flavors feel stronger for them in particular waters, but then again, the pH and others cannot differ too much! I have noticed there is lots of clay everywhere in Columbus, which means the pH won't change much and will stay pretty high (alkaline).
It all seems to be really good subject for serious scientific research!
Greg


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## RiverRat

Greg, the PH level can very from stretch to stretch a lot. Some would be surprised at just how much it changes. I dont fish any clay bottom areas..mostly gravel/rock or silty mucky mud

See the whole idea about baits PH is this in a nut shell.....IF the water is nuetral(7 PH) and your bait is 7...then theres no signature to send out to the carp......i know areas i fish that they want a highly acidic bait..while in another area they want a high alkaline bait(also depends on water temps)....its all about getting your baits noticed...if its not omitting anything...how can they find it in lots of water? Its just carp fishing, not rocket science or the idea of needing a bait with tons of "goodies" in them like the UK anglers do.

See some of these guys read about how all these carp are caught on boilies in areas of the usa and OVER SEAS and think there instant baits...nothing is farther from the truth....ive yet to see any one from this board break 30 lbs. in Ohio on boilies...if they do it will be from a small body of water they've been chumming hard with boiles, not a lake or river.

Stick to basic baits and stay away from the whole boilies BS....its a waste of money and not needed as some of us have proven time and time again with our catches.

Sorry to get some of these guys going Greg...i cant resist as some are just too easy to take down that road..lol...temper temper..lol...i just like to have fun with them is all...lol


Scott


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## RiverRat

Also Greg, i sent ya a PM.

Scott


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## cwcarper

While some of that may be true about pH...carp rely on much more than pH to find their food. Just because the pH of a bait matches the pH of the water doesn't mean the bait doesn't give off a signal. It just means that the carp won't be able to locate that particular bait depending on the overall acidity/alkalinity of the bait. However, pH does have an effect on the dissociation of organic acids, complex sugars and starches, amino acids, and other very important molecules that the carp depend on for finding food. In order for these compounds to be useful in a bait they must be able to dissociate into the ion form so the carp can detect them, assuming they have a receptor for this compound or one of its analogs. So really, pH is much more complex than just making sure the bait is different than the water. If there are other "goodies" in the bait that will leak out the carp will definitely find your bait and eat it. And each of these compounds will behave differently according to the pH. 

And since we are talking about boilies...I definitely agree that corn is a much better option for most people, but I also know that boilies can catch just as well most of the time if fished properly. Buckeye Bob has proven this to me over and over again.

Also, just curious Scott, but what are you using to measure the pH of the water and your baits?? Even a small difference in pH's (like the difference between reading pH as 7 or as 7.4) can mean a lot since pH is a logarithmic scale.


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## GMR_Guy

cwcarper said:


> Also, just curious Scott, but what are you using to measure the pH of the water and your baits?? Even a small difference in pH's (like the difference between reading pH as 7 or as 7.4) can mean a lot since pH is a logarithmic scale.


 I think Scott does what the rest of us does, he changes baits when the one he uses is not working. While Scott is aware of the importance of ph when it comes to a carp detectig bait, I doubt that he has ever measured the ph of his baits, or maybe even the water. He spouts out the ph mumbo jumbo to give the impression that he is very exacting in his method for selecting a bait. 

Has anyone who has ever fished with Scott seen him measure the ph of the water?

This bait ph thing has been discussed on the CAG forums. It really isn't a trivial matter. How would you measure a bait's ph? Do you drop the bait in a ph solution of 7.0 and measure the ph of the water right next to the bait? Would the baits ph change over time? How would current affect the bait's ph? How much a difference in ph is needed for carp to detect a difference? Should the bait be more alkaline or acidic then the water it is in, and if so, by how much? The questions could go on and on. 

I think I'll do what most of do, I start out with a baits that have highest odds of being successful and change them if the carp ain't biting.

I do have a ph meter in my aquarium. I calibrate the meter every two months using certified ph samples of 7.0 and 10.0. It is accurate to + or - .1. The ph meter/controller is used to regulate the ph by injecting CO2. So I actually have a decent setup for testing some of this ph stuff. I also have a new test subject - a 3.75" Israeli Carp. As long as the mini-mirror does not start tearing up the bottom and destroying plants, I'll keep him and make him my official bait tester/guinea pig. If he makes a good pet, I may throw a few more in my aquarium. Look for some good pics and stories in the future.


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## cwcarper

The whole pH thing has me interested, which is part of the reason I brought up the point. I remember the discussions on the CAG site, but the whole idea of a bait "having a pH" is a bit strange to me since pH is a property of solutions and not solids like baits. I suppose you could look at the effects the bait has on the pH of the surrounding water as GMR Guy mentioned, but in a large system such as a lake or river I would guess this effect would be much diluted. 

Part of my research at OSU deals with the effects of pH on the solubility and dissociation of certain compounds in solution, which is where my interest in the effects of pH on bait stems from.


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