# looking to buy my first AR and need info



## TheSonicMarauder (Mar 9, 2006)

hey guys, long time no see.. recently ive been bitten with the AR bug... but i dont know much about them outside the basic info i pick up at gunshows. with my grandfather passing away a year ago,(hes the one that originally got me interested in guns) ive been wanting to buy something more substantial than the marlin 22 that ive had for awhile and an AR has had my eye for quite a while... so my questions are as follows

where's the best place to get one thats not a gun show(although thats where ill probably find the cheapest ones)
what are some good brands
and is it cheaper to piece one together(i.e. buying the upper and lower separately) or just buying one thats already set up?


also.... anyone selling an ar?


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

it matters what your plans for it are, what caliber are you wanting?

im in the market myself for a varmint rifle in .223, its been a long journey too. i want a complete rifle from a factory, no builds. ive done tons of research and what ive narrowed my choices to are either the remington R-15 (made by bushmaster)or a Rock River Arms predator pursuit. im probably going with the RRA because of several reasons, but i like the fact it comes with a 2 stage trigger. the con, when i had my FFL holder call them, they told him from 60-90 days, maybe more. military and LEO get front of line over civilian orders. but i think it'll be worth the wait. theres nothing wrong with the remington, my buddy has one in .308 (R-25) and loves it.

as far as building one, sure its cheaper, but you got to know what youre doing. i read that not all uppers and lowers will not work together or sometimes theres a lot of play between them, i want a tight rifle and you also have no warrenty with a build. not a chance i want to take with a $1000 rifle.

dont bet on gun shows either, i held off buying the RRA rifle about a month ago thru my FFL because we had a gun show coming to town and i knew there was a RRA dealer there, figured id make a deal, WRONG. they didnt have the exact rifle i wanted, but they had one close (different barrel)and i could walk out the door with it. only snag.. they wanted well over $200 more than the price RRA had on their webpage. i tried to tell that to the lady, i showed her the webpage on my iphone, even told her id give her $100 more than RRA wanted on their webpage. she wouldnt budge and i walked. gunshows sure arent what they used to be. people will pay top dollar for guns now and the dealers know it. 

good luck with your search, like i said, im no expert, just been doing a lot of reading, lot of web surfing and a lot of talking at the gun club on it.

you can also go to gun auction websites like gunbroker and see what they have.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

I will start out by saying that getting a good deal at the gunshows is a thing of the past. Around here I can get just as good if not better deal at most of the local shops. I like Bushmaster, RRA, Spikes, Smith. I have put alot of my ARs together by buying a complete lower and then finding a upper I like and just snapping it together, back then you could save a moderate amount of money that way..today I am not so sure that is the case, especially with companys like Smith and Bushmaster putting out slightly stripped down entry level guns. I have recently started the process of trying to assemble my own lowers by buying stripped lowers and adding the LPKs etc, local shop owner is going to give me a hand with that, I have been told if you know what your doing it takes 30-40 mins. As for the RRA wait if you can find your lower PK Firearms has most of the uppers in stock at very reasonable prices.


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## shorebound (Apr 26, 2008)

Are you wanting an ar15 or an ar10? There is a large price difference when you step into the larger cals..... My suggestion is a ruger position driven... You can shoot cheap ammo through them and not worry about clogging your gas lines. as far a build.... That depends how much you value your time it's a lot of work matching everything up and as stated no warranty and there parts are mass produced items which means more times then not tolerances stacking up become a problem not to mention that 80% of the time the parkerizing never matches.... Just my two cents.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Here's a flyer from Sportsman's Den in Shelby, Ohio. I was in there Tuesday. Nice place, friendly staff and good selection of firearms.-

http://www.sportsmansden.com/images/new_images/FEB.pdf

Tom, what prompted you to go from a varmint rifle to AR15? Just curious as I find myself trying to decide between the two as well.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Mike, like the 2 AR 15's that Tom mentioned I think you can have the best of both worlds. Great for killing yotes and such but will do the job on a zombie that comes beating on the door.


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## saugmon (Jun 14, 2006)

Hey bobk, cabelas has your customized zombie killing ammo.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Horn...=zombie+ammo&WTz_l=Header;Search-All+Products


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

boatnut said:


> fTom, what prompted you to go from a varmint rifle to AR15? Just curious as I find myself trying to decide between the two as well.


One word.... ZOMBIES!! 

I want something lighter that that .308 I've been lugging around and something a little easier to swing.


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## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

vances in columbus! Plus if your law enforcement you get a decent discount!


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Just curious, for strictly target shooting at say 300 yards. Does the advantage go to the varmint rifle in .223 plus good glass? Or will the AR in .223 with glass do the same thing? I'm thinking not. Opinions? I joined a range...not much into shooting yote's etc. Zombies? well maybe down the road, LOL I like .223 because it's cheap and so am I.  When I say that, I guess I mean, I'm not opposed to shelling out some bucks for a decent firearm but I just don't wanna spend a fortune feeding it and I'm not a re-loader guy.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

boatnut said:


> Just curious, for strictly target shooting at say 300 yards. Does the advantage go to the varmint rifle in .223 plus good glass? Or will the AR in .223 with glass do the same thing? I'm thinking not. Opinions? I joined a range...not much into shooting yote's etc. Zombies? well maybe down the road, LOL I like .223 because it's cheap and so am I.  When I say that, I guess I mean, I'm not opposed to shelling out some bucks for a decent firearm but I just don't wanna spend a fortune feeding it and I'm not a re-loader guy.


IMO.. a bolt should always be a more accurate rifle than any semi-auto. simply because of the constant bolt lock up, which means all gas is used for one thing, propelling the bullet forward. in an semi-auto, the gas is used not only for propelling the bullet forward, but for propelling the bolt carrier to the rear to eject the spent round and cycle a fresh one. however, semi-autos have come a long way baby and will hold their own. it just matters what the internal parts are, the rifle and the shooter ive only got a 100yd range and my semi-auto .308 is as accurate as any rifle ive got. but i shoot it alot too


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

saugmon said:


> Hey bobk, cabelas has your customized zombie killing ammo.
> 
> http://www.cabelas.com/product/Horn...=zombie+ammo&WTz_l=Header;Search-All+Products


Nice, I will have to get some of those.


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## 7thcorpsFA (Mar 6, 2010)

ezbite said:


> IMO.. a bolt should always be a more accurate rifle than any semi-auto. simply because of the constant bolt lock up, which means all gas is used for one thing, propelling the bullet forward. in an semi-auto, the gas is used not only for propelling the bullet forward, but for propelling the bolt carrier to the rear to eject the spent round and cycle a fresh one. however, semi-autos have come a long way baby and will hold their own. it just matters what the internal parts are, the rifle and the shooter ive only got a 100yd range and my semi-auto .308 is as accurate as any rifle ive got. but i shoot it alot too


Agree, I had a Browning Automatic Rifle in 30-06. I thought it was as good as it could get until I bought a Browning A-Bolt In .270. The bolt is buy far the most accurate rifle I have ever shot. It puts 3 shots into a dime sized group at 100yrds. using a Harris bipod and the hood of my truck as a shooting bench. Both rifles had 3X9 Redfield scopes. My AR-15 is very accurate with standard peep sights, but I don't think it could come close to outshooting a good bolt rifle in the same caliber.


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## tm1669 (Apr 27, 2007)

A little info on what you want to do with it would narrow things down a bit. 
Anything from a 24 inch barrel to a 14.5 is available but each fits a specefic need. These days the world is your oyster when it comes to AR's. Look up "AR-15 chart" on google or one of the other search engines. Theres a ton of info there that relates to what you need to know.
Actually its "M4" chart and is specefic to carbine info. Still good stuff though.
Lots of AR's are very capable, accurate (sub MOA) rifles but dollar for dollar a bolt gun will get you there cheaper. A Savage Mod 10FPSR will shoot sub MOA all day with good ammo but will run you half of an AR that shoots as well.


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## TheSonicMarauder (Mar 9, 2006)

Well what I was looking to get is something basic for just target/fun shooting. I really got my eye on the smith and Wesson m&p15 (or something similar, really come down to price for me) basic and simple and from what I hear is not only a great first ar but a good starting point for accessories. Definitely flat top so I can put like a holographic or similar sight on it.... I want a quad rail for it too down the road and a m4 style adjustable stock as well


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## shorebound (Apr 26, 2008)

Gander mountain just had a barebones s&w on sail for 650... They were sold out but the guy was telling me the specs.... 16" barrel, came with 3 30rnd mags... No forward assist(really isn't needed unless you plain on going to war with it) no dust cover... It basically had a charging handle, plastic grips and a m4 style adjustable stock.... It was a good deal for what it was you may want to check your local gander.... I think it was the s&w sport but don't quote me ok that... It would have been a great starting point to pile on the accessories but like I said they were sold out 


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## leupy (Feb 12, 2007)

In my opinion an AR rifle is designed and ment to shoot easy and fast. I own one and really like it although I really don't shoot it very often I do have a couple of thousand rounds in case I decide to. The price of the rounds for me does not warrant reloading. I do reload several calibers but only for accuracy and the fact you can't buy them anyway. (6PPC, 17 squirrel, and a couple normal loads, 243, 30-06, 22-250) My 243 is my primary varmint gun, except for coyote then I shoot a 221 fireball to not damage the pelt. Oh yeah I reload that one also. While I do not often say this but I think I agree with just about everything said in this thread. Ravenna is a pretty good drive to Vance's or Buckeye Outdoors (both the same company) but their prices are usually better than the gun shows. Bushmaster most likely produces more AR's than any other company, that is what I own, not the reason I own one. (Price, I got a steal of a deal, I also had a very generous buyer for my A-1) I am happy with it but for me it is mostly a toy, although If I had a chance to get in my safe in a self defense situation it is what I would grab and there are always a couple of mags. loaded ready to go. I have even taken my wife to the safe pointed out the AR and told her if I ever say get my rifle this is one one I am talking about. I don't keep it loaded but there is a 30 rd. mag attached. I hope some of this rambling my help, feel free to PM me if I can help in anyway. If you leave a number to call I will.


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## TheSonicMarauder (Mar 9, 2006)

shorebound said:


> Gander mountain just had a barebones s&w on sail for 650... They were sold out but the guy was telling me the specs.... 16" barrel, came with 3 30rnd mags... No forward assist(really isn't needed unless you plain on going to war with it) no dust cover... It basically had a charging handle, plastic grips and a m4 style adjustable stock.... It was a good deal for what it was you may want to check your local gander.... I think it was the s&w sport but don't quote me ok that... It would have been a great starting point to pile on the accessories but like I said they were sold out
> 
> 
> _OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


Yeah my buddy in much got his s&w sport from gander for like 670 and it came with 3mags. He's got nothing but good thing to say about it


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

For accuracy I will always reach for a bolt gun, not that a AR is not capable of good accuracy..but I think a decided advantage goes to the bolt.


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## tm1669 (Apr 27, 2007)

That M&P 15 seems to have everything you need in a starter AR. I would check into that 5R rifling a little bit. It seems a little weird that they go cost saving on everything and then have a progressivly rifled barrel (1:8 to 1:7)with what seems to be polygonal rifling. I dont know if it cost more to manufacture a barrel like that but its different. Neither idea is new and they show up once in a while. I wonder what bullet weights shoot well with that barrrel? If you dont like the stock on it I would check and see if its Mil spec or commercial dimensions. It can make a difference to whats available aftermarket.


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## TheSonicMarauder (Mar 9, 2006)

well at the berea gun show i picked up a Smith & Wesson model M&P 15 from a guy at the gun show... its got the upgraded barrel with flash hider, forward bolt assist and the 6 postion stock, removable carry handle and a couple of mags for 700..... got a dog house with it too but thats a story for another time..... ndz has some slick punisher accesories and i also want to find a decent quad rail for it too also some tactical optics for a cheap price.... any help is greatly appreciated and ill get pictures up as soon as i can


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## tm1669 (Apr 27, 2007)

Very nice!!
When you get a chance to shoot it please post results. I'm curious to see what it will do with lighter bullets (55 grain and under). Does it have that 5 groove polygonal/progressive rifling??


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## TheSonicMarauder (Mar 9, 2006)

tm1669 said:


> Very nice!!
> When you get a chance to shoot it please post results. I'm curious to see what it will do with lighter bullets (55 grain and under). Does it have that 5 groove polygonal/progressive rifling??


S&W's website says this... Barrel Twist: 1 in 9"... doesnt say anything about a progressive rifling... what type of round would be best to shoot through it? i love to target shoot so i want to use a round that wont take as much of a toll on it.... and can i buy just a basic universal cleaning kit for it or do i have to have one thats specifically made for the ar15? because my last rifle was a marlin bolt action single fire .22lr and its maintenance requirements was very little


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## tm1669 (Apr 27, 2007)

I read a write up on the rifle and they stated it had Thompson Centers 5 groove progressive rifling with beveled edges to the rifling. Might vary from model to model . 
1:9 is usually better for bullet weights under 65 grains although some rifles will shoot heavier stuff just fine. You have to give it a try to see. 
AR's are tough and it will take 10's of thousands of rounds to wear out the barrel. Lots of people say to stay away from the steel case Wolf stuff but the newer stuff is fine. It used ot be laquer coated and that caused a problem when the rifles got hot. It would melt the laquer and gum up the works. Now they put a polymer coating on that doesnt melt. no problems. 
Get a AR cleaning kit (not one with a steel rod) or an Otis kit with a seperate AR chamber brush. Pipe cleaners for the gas tube and old tooth brushes for everything else. . Ive used CLP for years but theres thousands of opinions on what cleaner ot use.


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