# Opinions on a new pin reel



## Lundfish

I have decided to upgrade from the Okuma Raw to a larger, better, more expensive reel. I'm looking for opinions and facts about the different reels. The reels I'm interested in are:

Kingpin

Milner

Paine Falls

Why would I get or not get either one? I heard Milner is the best but I'm concerned the man may not be around much longer if something breaks. I don't really like how the Paine Falls or Kingpin looks but perhaps I could get a color scheme to my liking.

Who has the best warranty? What is the smoothest?


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## ShutUpNFish

I'm partial since I'm a friend of Adam at Paine Falls, but our friendship developed through the centerpinning market and him building me a reel. I can assure you that nobody will work harder to get what you really desire than Adam. Milner the best? Is a matter of opinion since all pins are pretty simple designs and at that level very comparable. The things you will want to consider in your selection are...inertia, start-up, overall weight, smoothness and aesthetics. Everyone prioritizes those factors differently so each and every individual naturally has different likes and dislikes with reels.

That said, I'm confident in saying that all three manufacturers of pins you named above are excellent reels without a doubt. So now that leaves you with just a few more considerations. For me, these considerations are and as I've stated in many other forums before and got lambasted over....I don't care though, because I'll continue to stand behind my belief. At PFC, you are dealing with a local builder and product made right here in the USA. I can send my reel to PFC or drive it over to his place for whatever reason....cleaning, service, a good looking over....whatever. And I know it will be done right and in a timely manner. I can also call the guy up direct if I want to. These, to me, are important factors involved in a pricey purchase such as a $400 or $500 centerpin.

I have used or owned all three mentioned above. I personally like my PFC the most because it is well built, like a tank, and has never let me down in the freezing cold temps or otherwise. It is easy to maintain at home or on the stream. And I'm proud to say it was built right here in the USA and better yet, built by my buddy.

Good luck with your choice.


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## Lundfish

What is a good website to see the variety of the Paine falls?


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## Mepps3

Craig at Erie Outfitters can give you the most knowledge on those reels. He has Kingpin and Miner in stock and you can spin them in his shop.


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## Lundfish

Mepps3 said:


> Craig at Erie Outfitters can give you the most knowledge on those reels. He has Kingpin and Miner in stock and you can spin them in his shop.


That is where I plan to buy the new reel at. I thought he had the Paine falls too?

What reel do you like?


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## ShutUpNFish

Wow!...Its pretty sad that you have all these pinnin' experts around here and not more than one matter of opinion on this topic to help a guy out. 207 hits!! Thats all it appears the guy is asking for...is what YOU like. 

I'm curious to know what you do choose Lundfish and how it works out for ya. Good luck.


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## Lundfish

I did have someone send me a PM. I also posted this on the MI forum I'm on.

I'm going to EO soon and I'm just going to get what I think feels right.


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## Mepps3

Lundfish said:


> I did have someone send me a PM. I also posted this on the MI forum I'm on.
> 
> I'm going to EO soon and I'm just going to get what I think feels right.


I posted this on your MI forum as well:

How a centerpin reel comes apart on river should be part of your consideration if you plan on fishing it. Removing a spool on a cold day is no fun when you have four tiny screws.


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## ShutUpNFish

If you're insinuating that all the Paine Falls have "4 little screws" thats wrong....unless one of Lund's considerations was limited to the Paine Falls Demarco series. And I totally agree, I like the ease of the larger center screw which is why my Paine Falls has one. Talk to the maker, and I'm sure he can customize a reel to look however you want it to with the convenient features you want in a reel which make YOU feel most comfortable....Ask the other two manufacturers if they will do that for you, see what answer you get if any.

Just sayin'


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## Mepps3

ShutUpNFish said:


> If you're insinuating that all the Paine Falls have "4 little screws" thats wrong....unless one of Lund's considerations was limited to the Paine Falls Demarco series. And I totally agree, I like the ease of the larger center screw which is why my Paine Falls has one. Talk to the maker, and I'm sure he can customize a reel to look however you want it to with the convenient features you want in a reel which make YOU feel most comfortable....Ask the other two manufacturers if they will do that for you, see what answer you get if any.
> 
> Just sayin'


The 4 screws was a example considering on the MI board Mykiss was mentioned as a highend reel. If you collect reels and never use them, then go for the 4 screws. BTW if your going to order a reel I would get in writing how long it will take to recieve... from any maker (I did not say who SUNF). Why? I know someone who waited 2 years after paying in full.


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## GobyOneGnoby

Mepps3 said:


> BTW if your going to order a reel I would get in writing how long it will take to recieve... from any maker (I did not say who SUNF). Why? I know someone who waited 2 years after paying in full.


Tell me about it...I waited almost 18 months for my Milner Kingfisher.


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## Mepps3

GobyOneGnoby said:


> Tell me about it...I waited almost 18 months for my Milner Kingfisher.


Your story don't match the time frame. The bearing 5" Kingfisher did not come out until summer of 2007. I saw the reel on your Raven 14' that fall. You picked up the Kingfisher from Craig because you did not to wait for the next run for a rootbeer color direct from Milner. But you did wait 8 months for a Kingpin number 002


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## GobyOneGnoby

Sorry for that rant. I'll agree to disagree and let this be.


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## Mepps3

GobyOneGnoby said:


> Sorry for that rant. I'll agree to disagree and let this be. You're stalking me is really creeping me out. I might have to file a restraining order on you. However, I will say this - from the time I *ordered* my Kingfisher to the day I received it was well over a year. And *'what you heard'* about the color is also wrong, as is the case with most of the nonsense you propagate online. And since when did I have an 002 Kingpin? I sold an 001 last year around this time though. So you again are wrong and I'm sure you don't want another repeat of the Salmon Crazy Mykiss tread, so I'll let this be and continue ignoring you.


Ya thought so. I got your first response by email before your edit and added it  Opps, your old buddy got the 002 Kingpin.


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## GobyOneGnoby

Mepps3 said:


> Ya thought so. I got your first response by email before your edit and added it


So you tell me when did I *order* the Kingfisher? And how many emails were sent to *Eric Milner* regarding the color and the delivery date? And which of your 'facts' are correct? You made this to easy.

My apologies to Bob and the rest of the board members for this.


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## Mepps3

GobyOneGnoby said:


> So you tell me when did I *order* the Kingfisher? And how many emails were sent to *Eric Milner* regarding the color and the delivery date? And which of your 'facts' are correct? You made this to easy.
> 
> My apologies to Bob and the rest of the board members for this.


My buddy CB has all that lol.


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## Mepps3

Lets ask Milner


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## Fishman

Guys, calm down, the rivers are prime lets go slay steel.


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## GobyOneGnoby

Mepps3 said:


> My buddy CB has all that lol.


You've taken creepy to a new level.

Tell Mike, John and Eric I said hi and make sure you report, _'what you heard'_ back to us, if you wouldn't mind. Does Craig still have that number 002 Kingpin?

Have a nice day.


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## green

how bout a spinnin reel


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## Mepps3

GobyOneGnoby said:


> You've taken creepy to a new level.
> 
> Tell Mike, John and Eric I said hi and make sure you report, _'what you heard'_ back to us, if you wouldn't mind. Does Craig still have that number 002 Kingpin?
> 
> Have a nice day.


CB say thats fine, give me a minute


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## GobyOneGnoby

Sorry for hijacking your thread Lundfish.

I think you will be happy with any of those reels. Reel quality across the board has improved over the years, so it's hard to go wrong. The right reel is mostly a matter of personal preference.


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## Mepps3

What part of my story don't add up?


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## Fishman

let's go settle this on the rock, first dude to 10 roe wagons wins - come on the spring run is at its peak and the color and flow coundn't get any better!!


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## nforkoutfitters

green said:


> how bout a spinnin reel


End of April will be here real soon. How bout a pair of polarized glasses and a frog gig???


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## joewallguy

I fish a kingpin and beat the crap out of it. Really beat the crap out of it. Spins like a dream. Its bullet proof. cant speak on the other 2. Craig and alot of other die hard pin fishermen fish a Milner. For a guy that deals with so many Pin's, that is saying something. A milner will be my next reel. I would rather give Craig my bussiness anyway. Best local shop around. Good luck


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## Chef T

Man, this thread has gotten pretty heated. I don't know if I'm ready to join the cpin club, lol. The thing that cracks me up is all the passion on a reel design that hasn't changed in years,lol. I've sat down with Craig on a slow day and he showed me the guts on many reels. All were simple as hell and did the same job very well. 
OP, get the reel that is sexy to you. Seems to me that choosing a centerpin reel is like choosing a women. It's all in the eye of the beholder, lol. 
PS- I might be interested in that Raw you have... as long as I don't scare off


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## Ten Bears

Paine Falls


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## Fishman

Zebco 303 or 202 depending on line strength preferred


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## ShutUpNFish

I selected a reel that I knew was of the best quality and built right here at home. I made my selection BEFORE I ever knew the maker. I did not make my choice because I had to kiss azz to get freebies or handouts to whatever manufacturer would give it or give me a discount. Or select whatever company would offer to select me as one of their "pro staffers" or endorsees. Thats all just comical to me nor have I ever felt the need for that, however very fitting in this "user" material society we have here. For the record, I would like it known that I in NO way have any benefit of endorsing or "talking up" Paine Falls centerpins. I just do it because I believe in a great product. Yes, you may wait longer to receive an order, but thats to be expected with custom works of art like the one I ordered. If you are someone who cannot wait to have a reel built for you, maybe a PFC isn't for you. But I assure you, they are worth the wait and One of a Kind. As far as the DeMarco reels...I probably wouldn't own one since I'm not a fan of the four little screw assembly like Mepps mentioned. However, these reels should be a consideration if you're looking to get something in your hands a little quicker regarding a PFC. When speaking of all three of these reel makers; Milners and PFCs are not as mass produced as KingPin. So you can probably get a KP into your hands much quicker which is certainly another matter of desirability or otherwise. 

So, its all within you Lundfish, and what you're looking for or desire specifically. I have a feeling that you kinda knew what direction you wanting to go before this thread even started, judging by some of the things you stated....My guess is that you will be owning a Kingpin soon, so good luck with your choice....All things considered, they are a good reel for what they are too.


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## Lundfish

Interesting how this thread turned out. I went to the cabin where we have limited internet so I haven't looked at it until today. Snowmobiling for the last trip of the year took presidence over fishing!

I'll be over to Craig's soon to check out the reels. Certainly a reel that has 4 screws would be ridiculous for MI. I had to take apart my Raw numerous times. Don't even know how the sand got in there but it did. It's greatly reduced when there is ice and snow on the ground. None to be found.

I'm leaning more toward the Milner at this point. Possibly an older (new) Kingpin. We'll see though.


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## CARL510ISLE

Centerpins are overrated, overpriced, and unnecessary; also the actions of some that use them lead to dumb arguments as proved in this thread - IMHO. 

C510I


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## Lundfish

CARL510ISLE said:


> Centerpins are overrated, overpriced, and unnecessary;
> 
> C510I


They may be overpriced, but they are not unneccessary or overrated. Have you used one?


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## ShutUpNFish

CARL510ISLE said:


> Centerpins are overrated, overpriced, and unnecessary; also the actions of some that use them lead to dumb arguments as proved in this thread - IMHO.
> 
> C510I


Show me a more effective way to fish moving water and I'll try it...As far as a more consistant way of putting fish to the bank...there is none.

Theres nothing wrong with healthy debate either as long as things stay clean. Most people here are merely voicing their opinions, anything goes any further; just ignore it.


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## Mepps3

Lundfish said:


> Interesting how this thread turned out. I went to the cabin where we have limited internet so I haven't looked at it until today. Snowmobiling for the last trip of the year took presidence over fishing!
> 
> I'll be over to Craig's soon to check out the reels. Certainly a reel that has 4 screws would be ridiculous for MI. I had to take apart my Raw numerous times. Don't even know how the sand got in there but it did. It's greatly reduced when there is ice and snow on the ground. None to be found.
> 
> I'm leaning more toward the Milner at this point. Possibly an older (new) Kingpin. We'll see though.


The Milner is a fine reel and a true handmade reel (no CNC). I like the older Kingpin the best as well. Craig did have some of each in his shop as of Sunday.


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## CARL510ISLE

"Show me a more effective way to fish moving water and I'll try it...As far as a more consistant way of putting fish to the bank...there is none.

Theres nothing wrong with healthy debate either as long as things stay clean. Most people here are merely voicing their opinions, anything goes any further; just ignore it."

Agreed, and as I said, this is just my opinion, I do not doubt that a centerpin is the most effective tool to achieve what most people think is needed to catch a steelhead (the perfect drift) while float fishing. IMO, there are much more CONSISTENT ways to put fish on the BANK in ALL conditions. 

I have fished mainly spinning gear for decades and have NO problems catching PLENTY of fish consistently, and unless someone absolutely PINS me down and spanks me into submission, I'm likely too much of a hippy to ever change my ways.

No, I don't pin fish, don't care to spey fish all that much either, and just can't afford to get caught up in all the latest pricy trends of the modern steelheader, I just like to catch them and have some fun. I do fish with a cheap float rod quite often for higher flows, but don't want too worry about where I can and cannot set my reel down streamside without ruining it. I'm much too hard on gear to ever buy the most expensive.

I'm not dissing the effectiveness of float fishing with a center pin outfit, just saying that it is ABSOLUTELY not necessary and IMHO overrated. 

Fish to the best of your abilities with whatever method you prefer and never judge anyone by what they're fishing with, how they're rigged, or what lure or bait they throw. We all can learn something from both the best and worst of fisherman.

Peace and Best Fishes to all.

C510I


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## steelheadBob

I have a J W Young BJ LightWeight I'm about to get rid of... sweet reel. I only used it twice. The wind blows and it spins.


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## ShutUpNFish

CARL510ISLE said:


> "Show me a more effective way to fish moving water and I'll try it...As far as a more consistant way of putting fish to the bank...there is none.
> 
> Theres nothing wrong with healthy debate either as long as things stay clean. Most people here are merely voicing their opinions, anything goes any further; just ignore it."
> 
> Agreed, and as I said, this is just my opinion, I do not doubt that a centerpin is the most effective tool to achieve what most people think is needed to catch a steelhead (the perfect drift) while float fishing. IMO, there are much more CONSISTENT ways to put fish on the BANK in ALL conditions.
> 
> I have fished mainly spinning gear for decades and have NO problems catching PLENTY of fish consistently, and unless someone absolutely PINS me down and spanks me into submission, I'm likely too much of a hippy to ever change my ways.
> 
> No, I don't pin fish, don't care to spey fish all that much either, and just can't afford to get caught up in all the latest pricy trends of the modern steelheader, I just like to catch them and have some fun. I do fish with a cheap float rod quite often for higher flows, but don't want too worry about where I can and cannot set my reel down streamside without ruining it. I'm much too hard on gear to ever buy the most expensive.
> 
> I'm not dissing the effectiveness of float fishing with a center pin outfit, just saying that it is ABSOLUTELY not necessary and IMHO overrated.
> 
> Fish to the best of your abilities with whatever method you prefer and never judge anyone by what they're fishing with, how they're rigged, or what lure or bait they throw. We all can learn something from both the best and worst of fisherman.
> 
> Peace and Best Fishes to all.
> 
> C510I


It isn't absolutely necessary to even go fishing either. And I'm not debating that spin fishing is not an effective means of catching fish. I HAVE used both methods effectively and can truely say that fishing with a centerpin is more effective on moving water than spin fishing bottom line. The main reason for that is that you can more effectively fish a longer range of water keeping your bait in the zone longer. It has little to do with a fancy rod or expensive reel and everything to do with the entire method of centerpin fishing. 

Give it a try and you will see what I mean.


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## nforkoutfitters

CARL510ISLE said:


> "Show me a more effective way to fish moving water and I'll try it...As far as a more consistant way of putting fish to the bank...there is none.
> 
> Theres nothing wrong with healthy debate either as long as things stay clean. Most people here are merely voicing their opinions, anything goes any further; just ignore it."
> 
> Agreed, and as I said, this is just my opinion, I do not doubt that a centerpin is the most effective tool to achieve what most people think is needed to catch a steelhead (the perfect drift) while float fishing. IMO, there are much more CONSISTENT ways to put fish on the BANK in ALL conditions.
> 
> I have fished mainly spinning gear for decades and have NO problems catching PLENTY of fish consistently, and unless someone absolutely PINS me down and spanks me into submission, I'm likely too much of a hippy to ever change my ways.
> 
> No, I don't pin fish, don't care to spey fish all that much either, and just can't afford to get caught up in all the latest pricy trends of the modern steelheader, I just like to catch them and have some fun. I do fish with a cheap float rod quite often for higher flows, but don't want too worry about where I can and cannot set my reel down streamside without ruining it. I'm much too hard on gear to ever buy the most expensive.
> 
> I'm not dissing the effectiveness of float fishing with a center pin outfit, just saying that it is ABSOLUTELY not necessary and IMHO overrated.
> 
> Fish to the best of your abilities with whatever method you prefer and never judge anyone by what they're fishing with, how they're rigged, or what lure or bait they throw. We all can learn something from both the best and worst of fisherman.
> 
> Peace and Best Fishes to all.
> 
> C510I


+1000


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## fredg53

Here we go again ill shut up so I don't get in trouble btw go pinning 

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## Mepps3

ShutUpNFish said:


> It isn't absolutely necessary to even go fishing either. And I'm not debating that spin fishing is not an effective means of catching fish. I HAVE used both methods effectively and can truely say that fishing with a centerpin is more effective on moving water than spin fishing bottom line. The main reason for that is that you can more effectively fish a longer range of water keeping your bait in the zone longer. It has little to do with a fancy rod or expensive reel and everything to do with the entire method of centerpin fishing.
> 
> Give it a try and you will see what I mean.


I will add: Not having a drag (being in direct line with a steelhead) is another reason why many centerpin. Feeling every head shake and tail kick is very addicting and more challenging.


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## I_Shock_Em

In my experience, pinners are often the a-holes on the river. They often think they own the stretch of stream they are on since they can "fish a longer stretch of water." Just my opinion. You'll never see me with a pin


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## ThunderHawk7

Oh boy.....


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## Lundfish

You can also increase the effectivness with spinning gear by fishing with a longer rod.

I think I may be getting a leftover snowmobile for a great price. There goes the new pin reel if that happens!


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## ShutUpNFish

I_Shock_Em said:


> In my experience, pinners are often the a-holes on the river. They often think they own the stretch of stream they are on since they can "fish a longer stretch of water." Just my opinion. You'll never see me with a pin


You shock 'em alright! LOL....You can certainly generalize and stereotype in ANY facet of life like that. You are right however, most pinners are A-holes. Most that fish the streams for steelhead that is... I personally would never invade ones space with ignorance like that and I actually prefer fishing areas with little to no pressure....Hence steelhead NOT being my first targeted species of choice with a pin. There are so many "other" opportunities out there that a pin can be utilized that many self proclaimed "pinners" don't take advantage of. Yes, I do take advantage of the advantage of long drifts and more fish, but I love doing it down the river near my house where there is virtually NO people and all the water and mean fish I can handle all day long. 

You won't ever own a pin because pinners are a-holes? Your generalization, your loss. I don't own one for what other people think thats for sure.

Bye.


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## I_Shock_Em

I agree with u that a-holes are everywhere. Met plenty of em that spin/fly fish as well. Just seems that ive met more that are pinners. My bad for lumping all "pinners" as a-holes, i am just referring to most ofof those that fish for steelhead that ive encountered (never met anyone that was pinning for something else). 

Im just like u. I prefert to fish away from the crowd. Most days i fish i do not see anyone. At most ill see a half a dozen guys. I will never fish shoulder to shoulder. Im willing to give up big number days ib order to fish alone. 

As for owning a pin, its not because most oinners ive met are assholes. Its because it doesnt appral to me. I catch plenty of fish on my spin/fly setups. I cant justify spending 400-500+ on a decent pin setup. Its just not for me


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## ThunderHawk7

All kidding aside...there are opportunities for confrontation where ever there is a body of water and a gamefish to pursue...I came to find out because I made a flyrod my choice of weapon for the pursuit of steelhead that I was an "elitist"...Really? 

This is not about the choice of equipment...its about the person holding it...While I posted a comic in jest....I hate to see threads hijacked with generalized stereotypes...I do not care what they are holding in their hands..people are who they are...I have yet to meet any of these guys...

During my time this year, I have been given a specific spot to fish by a fly fisherman, as he was leaving an area, which led to my first hook up. A hair jig that turned out to be a very popular/effective color by a spin fisherman, and tribs outside the rocky river to check out by a pin fisherman...this is in addition to other future fishing buddies I have met during the season. Just can't buy into all the negativity that flies around this forum..there are bunch of great sportsman out there and that is what I will choose to focus on.

In regards to the pin....I see them as a work of art and will at some point have to own one. The thought of fighting fish without drag is pretty darn appealing. I just need to recover from all the money I have dumped into fly fishing...I hope those that can are enjoying this beautiful day!!!!


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## steelheadBob

And like always, a member has to deal with his thread getting blown out asking about a type of pin to buy and peoples advise on them and geting another thread locked up for no reason... I'm sure some of you must have forgot aout our TOS rules and missed the sticky in the top of this thread about using *$^@ or even leaving words/letters out of swear words. It is still against the TOS, pms being sent.


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