# what snake is this?



## leckig (May 11, 2005)

I got it from a friend and owuld love to keep it for a while, but only, if this is safe for the snake.


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

I think its a milk snake but you may want to visit your local extention office or wildlife office. If this is a poisonous snake the small ones are just as deadly. i think permits are required to keep wild animals.

Fishcrazzzzzzzzzzy


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## ss minnow (Aug 11, 2005)

I am no expert by far. Round eye pupil = non-posion........eliptical or diamond pupil = posion.


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## ss minnow (Aug 11, 2005)

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/Resources/reptiles/poisonoussnakes.htm


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

That is a rat snake, but I aint sure which kind. If you caught it here in Ohio, then you are not allowed to have it, but if it isn't native to Ohio, you are fine. I replyed to your PM.


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## ashtonmj (May 3, 2004)

It is a Milk Snake....and yes you should look into the rules and regs of keeping wild, native ohio reptiles.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

ss minnow said:


> I am no expert by far. Round eye pupil = non-posion........eliptical or diamond pupil = posion.


That is true for all Ohio snakes, but some poisonous snakes have round pupils too. Like cobras, sea snakes and coral snakes. I have been into snakes ever sinse I was 11. They are my favorite animal, and I like to hunt for them in the summer. I practice the same as if the were fish (catch and release). Also Leckig, if you did catch that here, it is a black rat snake. Although from that picture it does look possible for it to be a eastern milk snake. But I'm sticking with rat snake. Feed them both the same, but if it turns out to be a milk snake, keep in mind that they eat other snakes. All the milk snakes I have caught had redder markings than this snake.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Black Rat Snake ------> http://audubon.wku.edu/daviess/b.rat.juv2.jpg
Eastern Milk Snake --> http://www.duke.edu/~jspippen/herps/easternmilksnake040630-885hillsdalez.jpg Does it have the Y behind the head like this Milk Snake, or no? If Not, then it is a Rat Snake.


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## Minor (Dec 24, 2004)

have to go with the post that it is a black snake . . . . yet i haven't played with snakes for about ten years now . . .from the pic posted it looks like a black snake . . . if for some reason the pic isn't showing reddish brown tints that the snake has then it could be a milk snake . . .


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## INSANE_SQUAD (Apr 13, 2004)

Looks like a Northern Water Snake...http://www.oplin.org/snake/ is a link you can search..This is a list of all snakes in Ohio.Click on ( id by name).

They are very aggressive but harmless..The marking behind the head looks like one..They are abundent in Ohio..

You will see a black rat snake in ohio is completely black. This snake looks like a young snake and the marking can be confusing..Goodluck.


Insane-----out


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

Juvy milk snake.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I am going to say milk snake as well. We have plenty of them around our place. In fact my wife is pretty creeped out by them and would really be a mess if I told her how many of them I really came across in the yard in a season.

Once they are a bit older they are easier to tell apart as the milk snake will coil and rattle (or try since they have no rattle) at you much like a rattlesnake. They will strike out as well although they are not poisonous at all.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

INSANE_SQUAD said:


> Looks like a Northern Water Snake...http://www.oplin.org/snake/ is a link you can search..This is a list of all snakes in Ohio.Click on ( id by name).
> 
> They are very aggressive but harmless..The marking behind the head looks like one..They are abundent in Ohio..
> 
> ...


lol It for sure aint a Northern Water Snake. It is a Black Rat. And just for the record. Black Rat Snakes are NOT completely Black. When they are babys they have the markings like your snake Leckig. But as they get older, their pattern starts to fade. But as a adult, they still retain some of the pattern. So no Black Rat Snakes are Not completely black (actually they are a dark brown and not black). I have keep them as pets as a kid. Northern Water Snakes pattern looks alot different than Black Rat Snakes. But you are right about one thing. Northern Water Snakes are VERY aggressive snakes. Only all black snakes we have around here is Black Snakes AKA Black Racer. And while Black Snakes have the same pattern as babys, their makings are ALOT darker than the Black Rats.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

bkr43050 said:


> I am going to say milk snake as well. We have plenty of them around our place. In fact my wife is pretty creeped out by them and would really be a mess if I told her how many of them I really came across in the yard in a season.
> 
> Once they are a bit older they are easier to tell apart as the milk snake will coil and rattle (or try since they have no rattle) at you much like a rattlesnake. They will strike out as well although they are not poisonous at all.


Black Rats Snakes also rattle their tail. You can also tell it isn't a milk snake by it's markings behind it's head, plus Eastern Milk Snakes heads are alot lighter than Leckigs Black Rat Snake. Bottonline, it is a Black Rat and not a Milk Snake, Water Snake, ect. ect. You guys may run across these snakes, but I actually hunt for them. I HAVE to know what they are with me hunting for them. So no more guessing needed. It's a Black Rat Snake. They can (but rarely) get up to 8 feet long.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I concede. I know a bit about snakes but clearly not as much as Rod & Reel.
That is not intended as a sarcastic statement either. I honestly could not tell the difference between the two from the pictures.


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## leckig (May 11, 2005)

wow! i think I will have to ask the snake for its name...
Thanks so much!
btw - it is not agressive at all. Very friendly.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

A little late but i second the juvy black rat snake. The markings are similar to a milk but the head gives it away. I love how everyone freaks out with any snake they find and worries it's poisonous. We only have 3 poisonous snakes in Ohio and there is only one species that you could even really think of finding....Northern copperhead, and even those are rare. Pretty much limited to southeastern ohio and a few areas south of columbus along the ohio river. There are timber rattlesnakes as well but we've done a "good job" extirpating them from most of ohio. You'd be more likely to step 3 inches from one and never see it or hear a rattle. The third is the endangered massaugua and at least according to the DNR it is only found in Kildeer Plains but i know a guy who find them elsewhere in eastern ohio. They are a rattlesnake but their head is so small it'd be very tough for them to even bite you, and their bite is not fatal. They inhabit very dense swamps and you'd likely never come across one. 

For the record, there are NO water moccassins on ohio either. Everyone sees water snakes and freaks out and they usually get the shovel. Sorry for the rant, just love snakes, have 3 of them, and hate to see them constantly get killed because people's ignorance or fear.


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## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

Looks just like the baby black rat snake I had for a while.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I say its a Black Mamba.-Just kidding

I can say what it would be if it were around me........ Dead. But thats just me. I have a terrible fear of snakes. I do enjoy seeing them kept as pets from people that care for them. I just personalyl couldnt do it.


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## leckig (May 11, 2005)

Mellon - do you think that would work for a flathead? It really is just like a huge crawler


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I have often wondered that. I know a Large Mouth would hit a small snake, so I assume a cat would too. We have tons of those 12-16 inch ringhead nakes at my cabin, i've came close to trying them for bait too.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I used to have a lure many years ago that was a topwater snake lure. It had a snakelike floating head and you attached a worm hook with about a 5-6" auger tail worm. I caught plenty of fish on that.


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## truck (Apr 12, 2004)

Thats a give me the willys snake  Wait they are all that kind


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## Smallie Gene (Jun 2, 2005)

white on brown you're a dead clown, brown on white means no milk tonight, yep, thats a milk snake alright. Grew up around a few dairys and am very familar with them little bassterds.


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## ShoreBoundOne (Apr 6, 2004)

Thats a Juvi Black rat snake...head markings not right for a milk....her is a pic of a juvi northern water snake i took while fishing the huron river:









That snake will probably outgrow most of his markings....depending on the location, black rat snakes have a wide variety of color...from almost all brown to all black...they are also the longest snakes in north america....7 feet is not uncommon.

Mitch


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## Fishing-Miller23 (Jul 16, 2005)

My neighbors found one of those, and we looked it up, and I think it is a milk snake.


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## INSANE_SQUAD (Apr 13, 2004)

What ever Rod and reel says must BE THE TRUTH....Sith of the fishing forum has spoken..I did not mean to piss you off about the serpent!!


To freaken funny


IT'S A SNAKE!


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

mojo said:


> A little late but i second the juvy black rat snake. The markings are similar to a milk but the head gives it away. I love how everyone freaks out with any snake they find and worries it's poisonous. We only have 3 poisonous snakes in Ohio and there is only one species that you could even really think of finding....Northern copperhead, and even those are rare. Pretty much limited to southeastern ohio and a few areas south of columbus along the ohio river. There are timber rattlesnakes as well but we've done a "good job" extirpating them from most of ohio. You'd be more likely to step 3 inches from one and never see it or hear a rattle. The third is the endangered massaugua and at least according to the DNR it is only found in Kildeer Plains but i know a guy who find them elsewhere in eastern ohio. They are a rattlesnake but their head is so small it'd be very tough for them to even bite you, and their bite is not fatal. They inhabit very dense swamps and you'd likely never come across one.
> 
> For the record, there are NO water moccassins on ohio either. Everyone sees water snakes and freaks out and they usually get the shovel. Sorry for the rant, just love snakes, have 3 of them, and hate to see them constantly get killed because people's ignorance or fear.


I second everything you just said. I aint got no snakes right now, but I plan on getting a pair of Dumeril's Ground boas. I want to breed them. You ever go snake hunting? I haven't much in the last few years, but man when I was younger I did all the time. Copperheads are commen in some parts of Ohio that I hunt, but you live in Toledo, so I wouldn't think they are to commen up there. There is one snake up that way I wouldn't mind hunting for. The Eastern Fox Snake. Have you ever caught one or even seen one in the wild? Eastern Fox Snakes, Black King Snakes, and Eastern Milk Snakes are the three most beautiful snakes native to Ohio in my opinion. You got something going now Leckig. I want to take you out snake hunting. What are you doing next weekend?


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

H2O Mellon said:


> I have often wondered that. I know a Large Mouth would hit a small snake, so I assume a cat would too. We have tons of those 12-16 inch ringhead nakes at my cabin, i've came close to trying them for bait too.


Do you mean Ringneck Snake? All black on top with a bright yellow ring around it's neck and the yellow covers it's whole stomach. Small snakes, and also beautiful.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

INSANE_SQUAD said:


> What ever Rod and reel says must BE THE TRUTH....Sith of the fishing forum has spoken..I did not mean to piss you off about the serpent!!
> 
> 
> To freaken funny
> ...


Yea after reading my post, I realized I came off the wrong way. Sorry about that  I don't get the Sith thing. It must be a star wars thing. Not a big fan, sorry.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

RodnReel, check out my gallery, nice fox snake for ya. Came up on a pair mating one day. Awesome snakes, very passive, usually. Don't mind getting bit but when they are that large it can put a hurt on. I used to snakes hunt alot but now it's usually if I happen to come across one while fishing. There are millions of northern watersnakes and eastern garters up here. Around oak openings you can find lots of eastern hognose (i own a western) and blue racers. I love a nice full grown blue...from a distance though, a lot more aggressive than even a water snake. The Eastern Hognose can get some awesome color morphs too. You can find fox snakes fairly easily if you know where to look. I found a very cool butler's garter this spring with extreme yellow on it. Other than that the pickins are pretty slim around here. I agree the eastern kings are awesome snakes. I have a plain old california king but that was the snake that got me started. Would got something a lot cooler if I could do it again. My buddy has an asian vine snake that is about the coolest thing I've ever seen. 

Get on kingsnake.com and check out the forums part for ohio towards the bottom of the page. One guy travels everywhere and gets some awesome picks....even finds massaug's fairly often. The forum is dead but it's worth going back and reading his old posts and pictures.


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## ShoreBoundOne (Apr 6, 2004)

I currently have 5 Corn snakes of various colors.....dont snake hunt in ohio much but like to snap pics when i come across em.

Mitch


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

As far as fox snakes I believe there are more of them up around Lake Erie. I have come across a few over the years in other areas but none from where I live (central Ohio). We camped up at East Harbor a couple of years ago and we saw a few there. I hope that helps.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

bkr43050 said:


> As far as fox snakes I believe there are more of them up around Lake Erie. I have come across a few over the years in other areas but none from where I live (central Ohio). We camped up at East Harbor a couple of years ago and we saw a few there. I hope that helps.


Yes, thats the only area in Ohio that has them (Erie area). You won't find them here in Columbus.


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## INSANE_SQUAD (Apr 13, 2004)

I have never seen star wars so i don't get your post..Star Wars..what does that mean?? There snakes in star wars??


Goodluck with your snake forum..


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

INSANE_SQUAD said:


> What ever Rod and reel says must BE THE TRUTH....Sith of the fishing forum has spoken..I did not mean to piss you off about the serpent!!
> 
> 
> To freaken funny
> ...


 I believe that is the part that led R&R to think you were referencing Star Wars (Return of the Sith). I am with him. I could think of no other reference either. I am not a Star Wars buff either so I just wrote that off as such.


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## Fishyguy (Apr 10, 2004)

thats is a northern water rat, i used to raise them


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

I'de like to know where it was caught, in a barn, near water, ect before jumping to a conclusion. Several of Ohios juvinile snakes appear that way.


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## Fishyguy (Apr 10, 2004)

It is a northern water rat. Where it was caught doesnt mean anything.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

What's a northern water rat? There are northern watersnakes and black rat snakes but there is no inbetween. Rat snakes tend to inhabit forested areas and watersnakes obviously are found by water but those are just general rules. As long as it wasn't caught in NW ohio then I am 99% positive that is a black rat snake. They aren't found up my way but pretty much everywhere else in the state. I can for sure rule out a water snake as the eyes aren't set in the head right, the body is too thin, and the scales are not keeled. It could possibly be a milk snake but again it looks too slender and the way the eyes are set in the head it looks much more like a rat. I was pretty obsessed with snakes for a few years and have read up on and caught almost all ohio species and been to too many reptile shows to count so I'm not just going by the DNR pictures or the local names people use (example eastern hognose are called puff adders in many parts, or blow vipers). Not trying to step on any toes or shout out from a soapbox, just saying that I know my snakes very well.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

mojo said:


> What's a northern water rat? There are northern watersnakes and black rat snakes but there is no inbetween. Rat snakes tend to inhabit forested areas and watersnakes obviously are found by water but those are just general rules. As long as it wasn't caught in NW ohio then I am 99% positive that is a black rat snake. They aren't found up my way but pretty much everywhere else in the state. I can for sure rule out a water snake as the eyes aren't set in the head right, the body is too thin, and the scales are not keeled. It could possibly be a milk snake but again it looks too slender and the way the eyes are set in the head it looks much more like a rat. I was pretty obsessed with snakes for a few years and have read up on and caught almost all ohio species and been to too many reptile shows to count so I'm not just going by the DNR pictures or the local names people use (example eastern hognose are called puff adders in many parts, or blow vipers). Not trying to step on any toes or shout out from a soapbox, just saying that I know my snakes very well.


I'm confused. I have caught Black Rat Snakes in Toledo. I was up that way a few years ago and caught two while there. One 3' and the other was around 5'.


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## ShoreBoundOne (Apr 6, 2004)

I concurr with mojo on this one......no such thing as a northern water rat...95% sure its a Black rat.

Mitch


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## Fishyguy (Apr 10, 2004)

First of all there is such a thing I raised them for years. Second my wifes father is a highly respected member of the cincy herp society and he says this is a northern water rat. Third all snakes are found by water, except for the obvious (deserts)
ALL snakes in this region need water for survival. Last post on this topic for me I see the tempers starting to flare. But i am positive on this snake.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Fishyguy said:


> First of all there is such a thing I raised them for years. Second my wifes father is a highly respected member of the cincy herp society and he says this is a northern water rat. Third all snakes are found by water, except for the obvious (deserts)
> ALL snakes in this region need water for survival. Last post on this topic for me I see the tempers starting to flare. But i am positive on this snake.


You know, at first I thought you was joking about the Northern Water rat. But now that I see that you aint. I have to say..................get a clue dude. There is no such thing as a Northern Water Rat (at least not in North America.). Not unless you are talking about a rat and not a snake. Second, not all snakes that don't live in the desert live by water. Alot of snakes drink the morning dew from leaves and such. I could see you trying to get this off if it wasn't already well known that a few here know what their talking about when it comes to snakes (me being one of them). Stick with trying to get the local kindergardeners to believe you, because it aint happening here. lol man I tell you, a Northern Water Rat. Now thats funny and sad at the same time. Funny because I thought you was joking, sad because I now know you aint, and that you really believe there is such a snake. Sad, just sad.


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## ParmaBass (Apr 11, 2004)

I think it'a a baby Cobra. There not too common in Ohio, this one must have made the trek from Egypt.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

Fishyguy said:


> It is a northern water rat. Where it was caught doesnt mean anything.


A northern water rat? Comedy gold. Such a snake doesn't even exist.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

I could be wrong on the black rats in toledo area ( i meant to say toledo earlier, not all of nw ohio) but I've never seen them (not that that means anything) and according to some things I've read they are deemed extirpated from Oak Openings. I know that doesn't mean all of Toledo area but it is by far the best habitat for them in the area. If you've caught them then I stand corrected. You mind telling me where cause I'd love to get out and find one. 

An with not even a slight temper flairing, there is no norther water rat snake. Google it in and you get hit for black rat or northern water but nothing in between. That might be an accepted local name for one of those 2 species but not the "correct" name. And by close to water i meant that you would rarely find a water snake too far from a creek, river, pond etc while you can easily find garter snakes in the middle of meadow or prairie habitat with no close by water source. Eastern hognose up here live in sandy soil areas that are not even remotely by water. They can get most of their water from their food. I've had my western hognose for 2 years and seen it drink once.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Wow Leckig! Look what you started!

We don't need the tempers to start flaring over a snake. I think Mojo hit the nail on the head with his statement. There is no snake listed as "northern water rat" as a google search finds none. However, that may be the local common name for one of the species, perhaps black ratsnake. In which case you would both be right.

I pulled my name out of the hat a long time back on this thread as to being the snake expert. So take my post for what you may. But it sounds to me like many are going with black ratsnake. Leckig, I guess perhaps you should have started this thread as a poll. But then again I would have had to be able to change or retract my original vote.


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## leckig (May 11, 2005)

The snake testified and he is from Uzbekistan, Tashkent area


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Lol Leckig. And just for the record. If I am one of the ones that seemed to have a temper...........SORRY. I have a bad habbit if posting what I want to say wrong to were it seems like I am mad, but aint. Back to Leckig. If you have any problems with the snake not eating, please let me know so we can meet and I can forcefeed it for you. I would tell you how to do it, but that wouldn't help. It takes alot of experience doing it, and I would feel safer me doing it for you. I wouldn't want to see the snake die. I have raised alot of babys snakes in my years and have had to forcefeed a number of them.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

bkr43050 said:


> . However, that may be the local common name for one of the species, perhaps black ratsnake.



YEEE HAAW let's go throw some shovelheads in my farmpond!!!!  

lol I love local names


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

Never forced fed but i had a juvy racer once that are notoriously hard to get to eat in captivity. Thing was mean as hell, striking at the glass anytime you walked into the room let alone going near the tank. Eventually i tied a thawed pinky's tail to my fishing pole ( had to be at least 7 ft away otherwise he would strike at me and not the mouse) and moved it around the cage like it was alive, twitching it buy the snakes head. He hit it a few times out of anger but eventually held on and began to swallow. When he was almost to the tail i quickly cut it off to get the line out. Not really a normal method but it worked and was totally stress free for the animal. He was taking frozen/thawed mice about a week later just by dropping it infront of his hide.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

mojo said:


> Never forced fed but i had a juvy racer once that are notoriously hard to get to eat in captivity. Thing was mean as hell, striking at the glass anytime you walked into the room let alone going near the tank. Eventually i tied a thawed pinky's tail to my fishing pole ( had to be at least 7 ft away otherwise he would strike at me and not the mouse) and moved it around the cage like it was alive, twitching it buy the snakes head. He hit it a few times out of anger but eventually held on and began to swallow. When he was almost to the tail i quickly cut it off to get the line out. Not really a normal method but it worked and was totally stress free for the animal. He was taking frozen/thawed mice about a week later just by dropping it infront of his hide.


Thats great. I am glade to see you didn't have to forcefeed it as a last effert to keep it alive. Whatever works I always say. I don't like to forcefeed if I don't need to, but sometimes you have no choice. It's a delicate process and I don't like doing it any more than I have too.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Dont you all know anything about southern ohio snakes
1- if it is in the water its a water moccasin!
2- if it is in a field it is a copper head!
3- if it is in the woods it is a rattle snake!
4- and my fav. if it is in the yard it is a GARDEN snake! lol

Its not a milk snake. But iv never seen a small black rat with that strong of a pattern?? But i havnt seen that many small black rats.


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## skipjack11 (Apr 12, 2004)

That looks like a Copper Mouth Rattle Moccasin.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Really, because I was thinking it was a Rattle Mouth Copper Moccasin.


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## Dirty Harry (May 22, 2004)

It's a rattle snake. I know that for a fact because they're ALL rattle snakes.


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