# new guy with a question about tipets vs fly size



## LearningtoFly (Apr 2, 2011)

Hi all!
I'm a long time conventional tackle stream fisherman who has finally decided to dedicate the time and learn how to fly fish this year. I've been putting together an 8 weight outfit for steelhead and early season smallmouth and gathering the various items I need and trying to learn the basics.

I've read about matching tipet to fly sizes and I believe that I understand the concept. One question I do have is: how much of a problem is it to throw a fly that is smaller than the recommeded size for a given tipet?
For instance, I've been gathering steelhead flies and have a number of size 2 to 4 beadhead wooly buggers that I know really catch steel because I've chucked them with my spinning rod in years past and I also have a bunch of egg patterns that are smaller flies (size 12 maybe) that I've used over the years as dressed hooks with egg sacs. So, what if I have a 1x leader on because I am throwing size 4 flies but decide I want to give a size 12 egg pattern a try? Do I need to switch my leader to a 3x (or whatever size is right for a size 12 fly)? I've read that trying to throw a fly that is too large for a given tipet will make it hard to "get the fly to turn over" but I've never seen anything about throwing a fly that is smaller than the recommended size for a given tipet.

Also, in a related question, is there any rule of thumb regarding tipet upsizing when one adds split shot? For instance if I'm throwing the size 12 egg pattern I might need a little weight to get it down to the fish right (I'll be starting off using WF-F line)? I assume if I add a bb size shot I'll need to use a heavier tipet than I would need with just the size 12 fly but is there some rule of thumb like a bb shot = move up one or two tipet sizes?

BTW if this question looks familiar I posted it on another forum while I was waiting to be able to post on this site. I need all the help I can get  

Thanks!

Doc


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## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

ok, short answer for your question
You can throw a small fly with thick tippet, when you switch that around it gets interesting

As far as split shot, i think you are getting too scientific about it, just clamp them on until you get the fly where you want it.

This is what i usually use for steelies/bass/carp/etc
5' of 15-20lb mono
small barrel swivel, not sure what size
5' tippet, 3x or 4x most of the time, you can land one hell of a fish on 4x tippet.
Dont let all of the nerds try to confuse you, you are new keep it simple. I think the swivel is a stronger joint than using a blood knot, and it reduces yer tangles. good luck


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## LearningtoFly (Apr 2, 2011)

fontinalis said:


> ok, short answer for your question
> You can throw a small fly with thick tippet, when you switch that around it gets interesting
> 
> As far as split shot, i think you are getting too scientific about it, just clamp them on until you get the fly where you want it.


Thanks. That is what I figured but I was curious.




fontinalis said:


> This is what i usually use for steelies/bass/carp/etc
> 5' of 15-20lb mono
> small barrel swivel, not sure what size
> 5' tippet, 3x or 4x most of the time, you can land one hell of a fish on 4x tippet.
> Dont let all of the nerds try to confuse you, you are new keep it simple. I think the swivel is a stronger joint than using a blood knot, and it reduces yer tangles. good luck


I was planning to use tapered leaders with the loop end and just use a loop to loop attachment to attach them to my fly line. That is what I used on my one and only experience with fly fishing and it seemed like a good way to do it. I've already purchased SA Matery headstart 8wt floating line (although I haven't received it yet) and quite a few leaders from SA and Rio (9' and 7.5') in 0x, 1x and 2x. I also bought extra tipet material in those sizes.

How do you attach your mono leader to your fly line? I'm familiar with blood knots and can tie them in my sleep but I've never tied a nail knot which seems to be popular in fly fishing. Also, in your set-up is the mono used as a shock leader to allow you to use lighter tipets?
Frankly, I like the perceived ease of the loop to loop connection, especially in cold weather, unless there is a problem with that type of connection that I should know about.

Thanks for your input. I've got lots to learn.

Doc


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## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

Heres what i do
If my fly line does not already have a loop welded into it, i create one with some heat shrink tubing, and super glue. Then just use a loop to loop. This alows me to change leaders quickly, ad a sink tip. and it slides through the guides pretty well. You can buy special tippet material that is "shock" mono but the stuff i use is just regular mono. I use the heavy butt section to help roll over a 2 fly rig, splitshot, and an indicator. the action of the rod helps protect fine tippet. The thicker line also holds an indicator in place a bit better.

After buying a bunch of tapered leaders you will eventually start tying your own, for fishing dries and delicate nymph rigs a tapered leader(whether bought or tied) is necessary. But when you are slinging an indicator rig the mono/swivel/tippet rig works really well. 


ps i would highly reccoment getting some 3 and 4x tippet, especially when the water is low and clear. you could also use some 6lb flourocarbon. But the fish get a little leader shy when the clarity is good.
Keep the questions coming, its the only way to learn, and welcome to the club.


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## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

good pick with sa stuff too, i think they are they best line/leader/tippet for the money. fair price, good product


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## Yanky (May 7, 2008)

Ill be following this thread closely as Im new to fly fishing as well. Its a lot to learn in a short time if you want to get out and produce fish now.


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## LearningtoFly (Apr 2, 2011)

Thanks for all the info Fontinalis. I have a spool of Orvis branded 3x tipet material as well as a couple of 3x leaders from my previous fly fishing excursion so I'll put those in my vest as well. My line and backing should arrive tomorrow as well as couple of reference books and a DVD so hopefully I'll be able to get out and practice this week.

Good luck Yanky. I think we are both going to need it  but it should be fun learing something new.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

LearningtoFly said:


> Hi all!
> I'm a long time conventional tackle stream fisherman who has finally decided to dedicate the time and learn how to fly fish this year. I've been putting together an 8 weight outfit for steelhead and early season smallmouth and gathering the various items I need and trying to learn the basics.
> 
> I've read about matching tipet to fly sizes and I believe that I understand the concept. One question I do have is: how much of a problem is it to throw a fly that is smaller than the recommeded size for a given tipet?
> ...


When the water is clear is the only time that you would want to fish small flies. So tie on lighter tippet to your existing leader. You will cast a longer leader at that point which will give a more stealth presentation.
As far as small flies an heavy tippet? None could fly a light kite on a heavy rope.


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