# A reason why #'s are down. A must read..



## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Got this off of Ohiosportsman.com Check this out!




More recently, researchers in South Carolina conducted a three-year study on the 300-square-mile Savannah River Site of the U.S. Forest Service's Southern Research Station. What they discovered, by tracking 60 radio-collared fawns from birth, was that only 27-percent of the monitored fawns survived beyond 9 weeks, with most dying within five to six weeks of birth. Of the 44 fawns killed, coyotes were likely responsible for 38 - or nearly 85 percent. Interestingly enough, the study also concluded that ALL coyotes kill fawns, not just the dominant, experienced breeders. 

A third study - this one in northeastern Alabama - convinced researchers that coyotes were a limiting factor in the number of fawns "recruited" into the herd. Their laboratory analysis of coyote scat and stomach contents showed fawns made up 27.3 percent of the coyotes' July-to-September diet, which covered that region's peak fawning months. Although small mammals (rabbits and rodents) also formed 27.3 percent of the summer diet, fawn meat was believed to be more important because of its higher nutritional value. 

All of this research brings to light the fact that coyotes can and will key in on whitetail deer fawns, especially during the first month of a fawn's life. The question remains, however, if this mortality is actually detrimental to the overall health of a deer herd, and if it is, what can we do, as hunters, to help? For the answers to those questions, let's take a look at a little more research.

MANAGING COYOTE NUMBERS
In southwestern Georgia, University of Georgia researchers Brett Howze and Robert Warren chose a 29,000-acre area with a low fawn-to-doe ratio to study fawn survival in two test areas 2.5 miles apart. In the larger of the two areas (11,000-acres), the researchers removed 23 coyotes and three bobcats from January to August, but removed no predators from a second 7,000-acre block. 

Shortly before hunting season, they conducted a remote camera census that estimated 0.72 fawns per doe where predators were killed and 0.07 fawns per doe where no predators were killed. In other words, there were 10 times as many fawns per doe in the area where predators were controlled than there were in the area where predators were not. 


In the northeastern Alabama study discussed earlier in the article, researchers documented a staggering jump in fawn abundance after trappers removed 22 coyotes and 10 bobcats between February and July 2007. Data from hunter observations showed a fawn/doe ratio of 0.52 before the trapping program, and 1.1 after the removals. Similarly, a remote camera census showed 0.52 fawns per doe before removal and 1.33 afterward. Combined, that's a 190 percent increase in fawn-to-doe ratios. 

DOES CONTROL REALLY WORK?
The obvious conclusion from the studies outlined here is that predator control can have a significant positive impact on fawn survival in a targeted area. The problem with this, however, is that female coyotes can compensate for such losses by having larger litters and coyotes from outside the "control" area will quickly recolonize the area. This means that for a control program to be successful long-term, it will have to be maintained annually, for as long as you wish to protect the deer population in the area. 

Having said all this, the question still remains whether or not coyotes are a threat to our deer herd. Based on the research and the growth of the eastern US deer herd over the last 30 years, I would say the answer is "no." Coyote populations seem to be somewhat self-regulating, and our thriving deer population seems to handle the loss to predation well. Research shows that adult mortality in coyotes runs between 30 and 40 percent for adults and as high as 70 percent for juveniles, but can vary greatly from year to year. Coyotes are susceptible to a multitude of canine diseases, including distemper, parvo, mange, hepatitis and rabies, and outbreaks of disease can severely impact local populations. Just as with losses from human control, though, coyotes can usually rebound quickly from disease outbreaks by breeding younger and having larger litters. 

Just because coyote numbers are self regulating, however, doesn't mean that coyotes can't have a negative impact in areas where deer densities are already low due to other factors - such as EHD outbreaks, illegal harvest, etc. It is in areas like these, that we must closely monitor coyote populations and their impacts on deer herds, and - when necessary - increase hunting and trapping pressure in order to protect the young fawns beyond that critical first month of life. Because if one thing is certain in all of these discussions on coyotes and deer, it is this: a hungry coyote will never pass on the opportunity to make a nice, warm meal out of a young whitetail deer. 

__________________


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

This report does not support declining herd levels in general with coyotes 


Having said all this, the question still remains whether or not coyotes are a threat to our deer herd. Based on the research and the growth of the eastern US deer herd over the last 30 years, I would say the answer is "no." 


Just because coyote numbers are self regulating, however, doesn't mean that coyotes can't have a negative impact in areas where deer densities are already low due to other factors - such as EHD outbreaks, illegal harvest, etc. It is in areas like these, that we must closely monitor coyote populations and their impacts on deer herds,


----------



## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Yep, Just like the worm's and buzzards, The coyotes have to eat. But what gets me are the #'s That is a high mortality rate!


The effects on an area that has legal kill #'s could have a problem with the high # of tags allowed if in highly hunted areas.


----------



## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

It's obvious that coyote's love to eat fawn's. Therefore, I will shoot everyone I see when given the chance. I want to be the one who helps control the deer [email protected]


----------



## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Snook said:


> It's obvious that coyote's love to eat fawn's. Therefore, I will shoot everyone I see when given the chance. I want to be the one who helps control the deer [email protected]


Exactly.....couldnt have made it any more clear!


----------



## AverageJoe82 (Nov 7, 2011)

Exactly,shoot and eradicate them all!


_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


----------



## OSU Outdoorsman (Sep 1, 2010)

When I was younger they used to put on what they called Chuck Ohio.....They might still do it, I don't know. All of the youths would go out and hunt ground hogs and at the end of the day they would get back together and give out prizes and had a cook out etc. I thought it was cool, it was the only time I've ever had ground hog to eat and I have to say it was pretty good. Anyhow I think it would be a good thing if they did something similar with coyotes. It's not just the deer herd that I'm noticing a difference in its all game. I haven't heard or seen the pheasants, rabbits, etc. that we normally do. I grew up hunting here in Ohio and I have a 2 year old boy now and someday I would like for him to as well. I just want the same quality of hunting and fishing that I have been fortunate enough to have to be passed on to the next generation.


----------



## Red1 (May 3, 2011)

Anyone know if Ohio has done any coyote studies like these? The only "research" I've seen is from talking to farmers and hunters that I know, as well as discussions on this forum. And most are of the same impression: the deer herd is down and the coyote population is up. I don't figure coyotes are the only reason; I also blame the ever-increasing doe bag limits.


----------



## Wildlife (Dec 12, 2010)

Snook said:


> It's obvious that coyote's love to eat fawn's. Therefore, I will shoot everyone I see when given the chance. I want to be the one who helps control the deer [email protected]


 
This one was trying to kill a mature doe and would have if it wasn&#8217;t for me bow hunting that rainy day. I have had a dozen hunts spoiled due to coyotes chasing down deer. Two seasons ago I watched a male on the heels of a six point. I see this happening more and more and it really upsets me. This is the season that prompted me to do my part to the best of my abilities to kill as many as I can knowingly that I alone will not even put a dent in the packs in my area. Maybe with the increase awareness of the coyote problem, we might be able to save some of our deer herd.


----------



## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Wildlife said:


> This one was trying to kill a mature doe and would have if it wasnt for me bow hunting that rainy day. I have had a dozen hunts spoiled due to coyotes chasing down deer. Two seasons ago I watched a male on the heels of a six point. I see this happening more and more and it really upsets me. This is the season that prompted me to do my part to the best of my abilities to kill as many as I can knowingly that I alone will not even put a dent in the packs in my area. Maybe with the increase awareness of the coyote problem, we might be able to save some of our deer herd.


Nice work...It will also serve other small game species and small mammals/birds. it will also help the coyote population. They will not be forced to chase such a large animal around if there's more small stuff to go around. Rabbits have been quite scarce lately..


----------



## crappiewacka (Apr 7, 2009)

Where deer densities are too high and hunting pressure light, the coyotes are actually doing the deer herd a favor by taking out a few deer. On the other hand, where we have deer populations less than 10 deer per square mile, coyotes may have a negative impact. But, there are very few places in the country where this exists. Do coyotes negatively effect our deer herds? The answer is generally NO! In fact, in the big woods with an average deer herd and normal precipitation, I doubt whether it&#8217;s even measurable. Do coyotes take deer? Yes, but there is no doubt we loose more deer to road kills, birthing complications, disease, abnormalities, etc. than coyotes would ever take to significantly effect our hunting opportunities. 
Being an opportunistic critter, chances are the deer are already dead or carrion. From an energetics point of view, &#8220;Why would you chase a deer half way across the county when you could eat a road kill?&#8221; The answer is, no animal would waste the energy.
I too agree w/Red1, "the ever increasing doe bag limits", look what happened in PA. The state obviously intended to reduce the herd and I believe this is the results surfacing, mainly by our own hand.
Yotes were here before, the recent increase of the herd/habitat brought them back. Not the DNR or insurance agency's. And believe me, no state wildlife agency would ever jeopardize any kind of funding for such a project.
Over hunting/loss of habitat, long ago reduced the herd to low levels, management rebounded it, now it's time to maintain.
Doesn't anyone remember, back in the day, when one was lucky enough to get an opportunity to bag 1 deer a year?
Now we are kind of disgusted when we don't......
No doubt, keep killing the dogs, it's our duty!


----------



## Hunt&fish4life (Dec 28, 2011)

I could agree with Coyote's having big impact on the herd. I have hunted in alot of southeastern oh. And can say that i have either seen one or more or herd a pack of them in just about every place i have been . I SHOOT EVERY ON I GET A CHANCE TOO.


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

[/QUOTE]
Doesn't anyone remember, back in the day, when one was lucky enough to get an opportunity to bag 1 deer a year?
Now we are kind of disgusted when we don't......
No doubt, keep killing the dogs, it's our duty![/QUOTE]

Yep, I remember when the success of the season was measured by if you even saw a deer. Now if I don't see 5 or 6 at a minimum each time out I'm baffeled.


----------



## fakebait (Jun 18, 2006)

I was just wondering how the state gathers its numbers to make their seasonal bag limits? If they count the state deer herd if they include highly populated area such as where I live that does not allow any hunting of any type. I would think with high density areas would skew the numbers greatly. I know where I do deer hunt the numbers have dropped drasticly opposed to areas that do not allow hunting. I believe that the herd numbers should only be based on a huntable population not the state as a whole.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

A question for some of you.

I see bunches of coyotes where I hunt, many more than I did a few years ago. I saw 5 togther during the gun season and get regular pics of them in groups of 2-3 on the cameras. Even 26 years ago when I started hunting there they were around but not in large numbers they are today. We named one hill Coyote hill when we first started hunting there due to them always being there howling at sunset.

If the coyotes are taking huge number of fawns( I don't doubt that they take some) why am I still seeing all of the does with fawns, most with 2?. I would expect to see a bunch of mature does with no yearlings and that is not the case by what I witness or on the 9 cams we are running.


----------



## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

I hunt urban land and I have seen some of fawns. I know for a fact that they are killing fawns a neighbor watched several coyotes pen a fawn against a fence and kill it. I have a friend with a farm by a neighborhood he watches them eat cats all the time. He is happy about that.. 

A hunter down the road trapped 8 last year. I think like anything else some need to get killed it helps regulate the #'s. Remember they live to be 12 and will have litters of 6. 

I missed a huge one with the bow this year. (It was 50yd's not 45yds shot just below it.)


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Like I stated I know they will and do kill some fawns however if the mortality is as as high as stated by many why do I still see all of the does with yearlings, most of them with 2 and a couple with 3?

Did all of the does that had their fawns killed also get killed and that is why I don't see the fawnless does?

If you are hunting a property and see all of the does without yearlings then you may have a heavy predation problem. Is anyone ACTUALLY seeing this?

All of the talk about coyote predation of fawns should be very easy to determine on an individual basis. On the property you hunt the fawns are either still there with their mothers or they are not, no studies or guesswork required to reach conclusion.

Where I hunt the coyote population has never been higher but I still see all of these does with fawns, how is that possible?


----------



## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

I think it is possible for an area with higher deer densities not to be affected as much by coyotes because there are just more deer. The does with fawns that make it are much higher than the ones that don't so you will see lot's of fawns. But I think that the number of deer that the state allows you to shoot is the biggest problem. You can't keep shooting up the woods and expect to see endless numbers of deer. People seeing numbers of deer are probably on farms with little hunting pressure or with hunters that just don't shoot. Or the neighbor allows no hunting or it's state park property. Where I'm at were selective on what we shoot but if they run off to the next property they will empty their magazines. And I know lot's of people will shoot two or three out of a herd if they can because "they have three tags". Even though it is illegal until you attach a temporary tag to the first deer you killed. Then there are many that don't even want the deer after they shoot it! Let alone the other two laying there!


----------



## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

in the 20 acre plot i hunt we have not shot any doe the last few years. we have a lot of yotes. this year i have seen very few doe or yearlings but many different bucks. years past i always saw doe with yearlings. so i wonder where did the doe go?


----------



## Wildlife (Dec 12, 2010)

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/coyote-kill-240

I pulled this from a different forum site and I have to tell ya, IMO, I believe this happens more than what most people think, I'm sure. I'm sorry, but I care very deeply for our deer and small game species. I know the coyote problem isn't wide spread, but some places, it's bad enough. I personally have seen what these guys can do and that's what made me mad enough to go out and start hunting them specifically. Mind you, they aren't the easiest animal to hunt. For those that didn't see your deer #s this year, perhaps you might want to consider thinning out those coyotes and see what happens next season.


----------



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Wildlife said:


> http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/ji...l2i2-2789ndf98
> 
> I pulled this from a different forum site and I have to tell ya, IMO, I believe this happens more than what most people think, I'm sure. I'm sorry, but I care very deeply for our deer and small game species. I know the coyote problem isn't wide spread, but some places, it's bad enough. I personally have seen what these guys can do and that's what made me mad enough to go out and start hunting them specifically. Mind you, they aren't the easiest animal to hunt. For those that didn't see your deer #s this year, perhaps you might want to consider thinning out those coyotes and see what happens next season.


im not getting a story from your link


----------



## Wildlife (Dec 12, 2010)

ezbite said:


> im not getting a story from your link


I think I fix it; I apologize for the inconvenience.


----------



## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

Lundy said:


> A question for some of you.
> 
> I see bunches of coyotes where I hunt, many more than I did a few years ago. I saw 5 togther during the gun season and get regular pics of them in groups of 2-3 on the cameras. Even 26 years ago when I started hunting there they were around but not in large numbers they are today. We named one hill Coyote hill when we first started hunting there due to them always being there howling at sunset.
> 
> If the coyotes are taking huge number of fawns( I don't doubt that they take some) why am I still seeing all of the does with fawns, most with 2?. I would expect to see a bunch of mature does with no yearlings and that is not the case by what I witness or on the 9 cams we are running.


Kim,I am seeing a problem here on my land since the coyotes moved in several years ago. I have been feeding a large group of does for several years on a daily basis.The group has usually consisted of 15-20 deer with a large number of fawns mixed in.
This year I am seeing 9 deer at the feeder daily.7 mature does and only 2 fawns.
We actually found 2 fawn carcasses this late summer.
Could be that your hunting property has an abundance of small game available to the coyotes or plenty of thick cover for the fawns.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks Lewis,

That is what I was wanting to hear, some actual first hand observation.


----------



## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Doesn't anyone remember, back in the day, when one was lucky enough to get an opportunity to bag 1 deer a year?
Now we are kind of disgusted when we don't......
No doubt, keep killing the dogs, it's our duty![/QUOTE]

Yep, I remember when the success of the season was measured by if you even saw a deer. Now if I don't see 5 or 6 at a minimum each time out I'm baffeled.[/QUOTE]

Amen! I have been thoroughly discouraged this year. Guess I need to look back to the bad old days when I was thrilled as can be to get my one deer that year! I hunted three years without getting a shot at a deer. Now I'm ticked if I hunt three days with the same result. Guess I need to keep a better perspective. I am gearing up for coyotes this winter though. Got a fox pro and have the 223 ready. Anyone want to try it?!!


----------



## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

The old days. I don't care about the 60's. Nobody does! I care about deer hunting today and what I consider to be good hunting. All through the 80's and 90's there was a LOT of deer and the hunting WAS good. Now, in a lot of places especially on public land the hunting is not so good. I don't mean to say there are no deer. That is not what I am saying, but the population has been significantly reduced from what it was. To hear the ODNR say we still have 750,000 deer in Ohio is just ridiculous to me. 

However, coyote predation would be a relative constant in the deer population equation. I don't think it has significantly increased across the state over the last few years. The only thing that significantly increased over the last several years was the annual harvest. Thus the population has plummetted in many areas.


----------



## RWK (Mar 17, 2011)

Coyotes and us,and kill- kill and kill some more does.


----------



## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

Heck I remember when a person saw a deer from the car window they would talk about it for a week, folks would say where was it, then tell their buddies there was a deer seen out CR 26 by Bobs old farm.
But look within guys, the additional does are knocking the heck out of the herd, wait until next season with the extra does harvested again this year. Limit yourself to less deer but no you want me to back off so you can shoot more. I have been watching and waiting for 2 years now, everyone is greedy.
It is going to really suck next season as far as quanity, kind of like Lake Erie Walleye, when the DNR hires someone it is "should we hire a biologist or a law enforcement guy", which one will generate more money for the company?


----------



## Red1 (May 3, 2011)

I guess I muzzle hunted about 28 hours during the 4 day season I saw zero deer hunting in places where I have seen many deer in the past. A friend of mine saw 8 large does on his place no fawns with them. I cant figure why but afew miles from here I see some large groups of deer.


----------



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Another coyote barometer is the highways. has anyone else noticed the increase in the number dead along busy highways. On my road trips over the last couple of years I have seen just as many and sometimes more yotes than deer. That's scary......since we know they are pretty quick, and "people smart"


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Hardtop said:


> Another coyote barometer is the highways. has anyone else noticed the increase in the number dead along busy highways. On my road trips over the last couple of years I have seen just as many and sometimes more yotes than deer. That's scary......since we know they are pretty quick, and "people smart"


I don't know where all you are traveling but I have seen a few yotes as road kill but the number pales in comparison to the deer road kill. Don't get me wrong. I think the yotes may be damaging the herd somewhat but that claim to the number of them as road kill really caught my eye.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

I have seen more yotes killed on the road this year than in the past but it is no where even close to the deer I see on the roads. I cover 17 counties in southern Ohio.
Bob


----------



## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

could the harvest numbers be down due to the progressively warmer temperatures during sept-oct-nov-dec?

I think so.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

littleking said:


> could the harvest numbers be down due to the progressively warmer temperatures during sept-oct-nov-dec?
> 
> I think so.


I was thinking the same thing, but look at muzzy season it was really warm and the kill was up? It has been a really crazy season. Hoping for some cold temps and snow so I can stick another deer with my bow.


----------



## CHOPIQ (Apr 6, 2004)

I'm just wondering with the MILD winter that we are having if that will increase the herd next year. I don't think we have a big deer kill in Ohio on account of our winters but with 50 degree temps in Jan. I don't think we will have any kill off at all.


----------

