# Anyone use rock salt ot open section of lake?



## wildman

Has anyone ever used rock salt to open up a section of a lake... does it work? 
I have a golf coarse that I hunt but the water is frozen. Have plenty of salt and with the temps warming thought I would jump start the melting with bagged rock salt.


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## quick draw mcgraw 15

well if u try it let me know how long it takes, and if it works.
thanks


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## Mushijobah

Might just work with some thawing ice!


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## wildman

Is it legal?


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## Mushijobah

Probably not if it's a public lake or waterway.


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## novy

No person shall take migratory game birds: 

With a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells, unless it is plugged with a one-piece filler which limits the capacity of the gun to three shells. The filler must be such that it cannot be removed without disassembling the gun. 


On or over a baited area. A baited area means any area on which salt, grain, or other feed has been placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, or scattered, if that salt, grain, or other feed could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them. Any such area will remain a baited area for ten days following the complete removal of all such salt, grain, or other feed. Hunters are responsible for ensuring that an area has not been baited and should verify its legality prior to hunting.


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## Wannabitawerm

I don't really know the waterfowl regs but it seems to me if you salt the ice and it opens it's a means to attract birds which would make it a baited area. I'm interested to see the opinions and or ideas you all have. I'm not a bird hunter but knowledge is always a good things.


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## Row v. Wade

You season the fish with salt while alive for better tasting fish and chips.

(((BRILLIANT)))


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## wildman

"On or over a baited area. A baited area means any area on which salt, grain, or other feed has been placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, or scattered, if that salt, grain, or other feed could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on, or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them. Any such area will remain a baited area for ten days following the complete removal of all such salt, grain, or other feed. Hunters are responsible for ensuring that an area has not been baited and should verify its legality prior to hunting."

Yea, but they are considering salt as a feed. I would be using it to melt Ice... I can just as easily use a chainsaw. The salt way is more expensive. But it is a lot safer than the chainsaw. so either way I an not gaining an advantage by using salt


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## Wannabitawerm

My question is, if it opens the water, thus making a spot for them to land, does that count as an attractant. I'm not disagreeing with it as I don't really know the exact regs but would they consider opening the water with that method as baiting as some of the scattered salt may remain? Better safe than sorry I always say. We can look for a loophole but we all know how that can turn out. Lol


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## Mushijobah

*Road-Salt Alternatives

Calcium Magnesium Acetate*
NRC (1991) examined calcium magnesium acetate (CMA) as an alternative to road salt in deicing operations. CMA solution is prepared by dissolving solid CMA in water. Optimal concentration in solution is 25%. NRC concluded that CMA is relatively harmless to plants and animals, noncorrosive to metals, and nondestructive to concrete and other highway materials. Because of its low density and small particle size, CMA may be dusty during handling and storage and may blow off roadways after spreading. When exposed to moisture, CMA can clog spreading equipment.

The calculated ratio of CMA to salt for comparable ice melting is 1.7:1. In practice, however, the amount varies. An Ontario study lowered the ratio to 1.5:1 and found CMA to be effective in penetrating light snowpack and preventing pavement icebond (Manning and Crowder, 1989). A study by Wisconsin Department of Transportation (1987) reported application rates of CMA at 1.2-1.6 times greater than salt. CMA also functions as an effective anti-icer when applied prior to or at the outset of snow events at rates 20-40% higher than salt. Washington State uses CMA in anti-icing operations to reduce the volume of sand-based abrasives that enter salmon spawning streams in snowmelt and stormwater runoff (Washington State Department of Transportation, personal communication).

CMA acts more slowly and is less effective than salt in cold conditions. Notwithstanding the difference in application rate, CMA&#8217;s deicing performance is comparable to that of salt but less successful in melting accumulated snow and ice. The California Department of Transportation (1989) found CMA effective in preventing the formation of snowpack but less effective than salt treatments in removing heavy snowpack and less effective at temperatures below 23ºF. In general, nearly all studies of CMA rated the substance as an acceptable deicer but not as effective or consistent as salt when applied in equal amounts. As experience with CMA increases, some highway agencies predict its ratio to salt application will approach 1:1.

Health and Environmental Impacts. Comprehensive studies performed by Caltrans (Winters et al., 1985) and the National Cooperative Highway Research Program (NCHRP) found CMA to be much more environmentally benign than NaCl (Horner et al., 1988). The Caltrans study found few adverse impacts associated with CMA. CMA was less toxic to fish than road salt, although Caltrans associated CMA concentrations of 5,000 mg/l with slightly delayed hatching in rainbow trout. At high exposure levels CMA is more toxic to phytoplankton than sodium chloride. Inhibitory effects in algae occurred at CMA concentrations of 85 mg/l; algae did not exhibit any inhibition from sodium chloride at test concentrations. The CMA LC50 for rainbow trout is 18,700 versus the NaCl LC50 of 12,200 (Cheng and Guthrie, 1998).

In soils, CMA tends to exchange calcium and magnesium with other metals already present. CMA can extract iron, aluminum, sodium, and potassium from roadside soils but is less harmful to plants than road salt. Of 18 tree species tested, only the Russian olive was more sensitive to CMA than to NaCl (NRC, 1991). CMA may actually stimulate plant growth by improving soil structure and permeability (Cheng and Guthrie, 1998). 

NCHRP reported that CMA decomposes within two weeks when in soils at temperatures above 50ºF. At 35.6ºF, decomposition time was around four weeks. Two potential problems associated with CMA are temporary oxygen depletion in water from CMA decomposition and the potential for phosphorous enrichment of surface waters that are exposed to high concentrations of CMA derived from agricultural products.

Costs. The average cost of road salt is $30/ton. NRC (1991) estimated the cost of CMA between $500 and $700/ton. The $500 figure represents use of a corn fermentation process to derive acetic acid, which reacts with dolomitic lime to produce CMA. Chevron Chemical Company produces CMA using acetic acid from natural gas and sells the product for $600-$700/ton delivered. Conversion to CMA would incur additional costs to municipalities in the modification of storage, handling, equipment and spreading operations.

*Potassium Acetate*
Potassium acetate (KA) is often used as a base for commercial chloride-free liquid deicer formulations. Its advantages include low corrosion, relatively high performance, and low environmental impact. Although less study information is available on KA, some of the findings are clear.

Health and Environmental Impacts. Health impacts of KA are slight. Inhalation of the substance may cause mild irritation to the respiratory tract. The Material Data Safety Sheet for KA documents no significant adverse effects from skin and eye contact with the product.

As with NaCl and CMA, KA can temporarily deplete oxygen in aquatic ecosystems but may stimulate plant growth. The 96-hour LC50 for rainbow trout is 1,500 mg/l. Along with CMA, KA is one of the most benign road-salt alternatives because it contains nonpersistent, biodegradable acids. Cryotech CF7, a commercial form of KA, has been selected for use in Yosemite National Park. KA is stable and is removed from application areas by flushing, dispersion, and dilution. Davis et al. (1994) concluded that KA does not penetrate groundwater aquifers and does not impact water chemistry. Cost of KA is $700-$800/ton.


I'm not reccomending any of these...but I don't think they qualify as salt.


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## Dfrenzy

Are you freaking kidding me? I would bet that there is a minumum of 3-4 inches anyplace in ohio. Now you want to use rock salt to open a hole big enuf for ducks to land and in between times now you have a serious weak spot where someone could get killed. Heres your sign! I love to hunt waterfowl a much as anyone else but come on. Maybee ODOT can deliver you lets say maybee a ton or so to make your hole through 3 inches of ice on a 30 by 30 hole. Oh by the way Rock salt sells for about $75.00 a ton at your local landscape material store. If you get it today you can have your hole open by tommorow afternoon.


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## firstflight111

wildman said:


> Has anyone ever used rock salt to open up a section of a lake... does it work?
> I have a golf coarse that I hunt but the water is frozen. Have plenty of salt and with the temps warming thought I would jump start the melting with bagged rock salt.


you can do it but .... that would be baiting ...then you cant hunt it ..read your laws


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## squid_1

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to spray some blue died water on a field to simulate open water? Sure would be alot easier to pick them up after you shoot them. But what do I know I am not a duck hunter.


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## puregreen

I usually use a chainsaw but a black tarp will work to


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## wildman

Yea I have friends that have used the blue dye trick.... 



Has anyone ever used rock salt to open up a section of a lake... does it work?
I have a golf coarse that I hunt but the water is frozen._* Have plenty of salt and with the temps warming thought I would jump start the melting with bagged rock salt.*_

_Maybee ODOT can deliver you lets say maybee a ton or so to make your hole through 3 inches of ice on a 30 by 30 hole. Oh by the way Rock salt sells for about $75.00 a ton at your local landscape material store. If you get it today you can have your hole open by tommorow afternoon_


I own a grounds care co. So I am pretty sure I know the prices and It was just a thought to jump start the melting since I had quite a bit of salt "ton's" But then again it is suppose to be 57 this week so actually I don't think a ton would be necessary...As for the calcium mag. it is nasty stuff Not good for the water ... Salt actually isn't bad for the water or fish. paylakes use salt blocks to battle flukes on catfish. At least the amount I'm talking about...


*firstflight111 you can do it but .... that would be baiting ...then you cant hunt it ..read your laws*

In the laws it sounds like salt it self is considered a food/attraction not the use of salt which would dissolve in the water...

Either way I spoke to a GW today and he said that you couldn't... It was just a thought... time to pull out the saw or go to the river...


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## Dfrenzy

Wildman I would like to say sorry I jumped down your throat there are just too many guys not thinking about others on the ice. Im sure no one is heading to the golf coarse to ice fish.


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## kane10

I tried it once but the salt melts pinholes in the ice, not a large space as you need. If you can get your hands on a large water pump like a trash pump and pump the water from underneath back on top it will unlock the area where the water continuously flows. Where the ice doesn't melt it will still appear to look unfrozen to the birds until they land, by then they should be dead! Good luck on your hunt, post up your success.


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## firstflight111

wildman check your p.m


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## quick draw mcgraw 15

i happen to go by a pond and oddly saw about 3-4 doz mallards sitting on the ice the was no opening, maybe because they had just started trying to open that spot but it was awsome to see them also saw 2 or so doz. geese i was happy to see that, cant wait till sunday headed out with the 3 guys i look up to the most. my pops, grandpa, cuz who got a break from protecting this country as a marine and got to come home for the holidays and cant wait to share a great hunt with him......


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## Eric E

Chainsaw would do the trick.

sent from my HTC evo


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## wildman

Lake was half thawed so the salt was not needed after all. It was full of birds.... ducks were just fall-in out of the sky!!!! It was a good day....


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