# Rocky Fork This Past weekend........



## smalliehunter (Apr 12, 2004)

Well i was out at Rocky Fork camping with the family........did some gill/crappie fishing, some night fishing with the boy.......and some major boating......... it was a blast........... HOWEVER........... i did witness something i just will never understand, and it was the first time i have actually seen it done......... there were two guys bow fishing in the shallow water off the camp ground launch ramp.........they were standing/sitting in what looked to be a modified kayak.........in the 10-15 mins that i watched them.........each one took 2 fish a piece......... was pretty amazing to watch....but what took me for a loop.......was they just tossed the fish back into the water......... they were dead fish......... now i know that turtles, etc... will eat them.......but why do that? I beleive they were bow fishing for carp........ it looked to be carp they brought in.......... now i am no fan of the carp.....although they put up a heck of a fight.......... i wouldnt catch one just to kill it and discard........... is this normal with bow fisherman? They dont keep what they shoot?


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## Jitterbug (Apr 13, 2004)

Are you sure the carp were dead. I've never bowfished myself, but I have seen others do it. I'd say 95% of the time, the fish are still alive when released and they tell me the fish survive. That doesn't address the issue of what else you are putting the fish through, but I'm not sure they are tossing back dead fish.


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## bigjohn513 (Apr 6, 2004)

come on they live????? after an arrow goes thru them???got any proof to back that up?
i know we kill certian amount of fish hooking them in the mouth...but i need some proof that a fiberglass injection doesn't kill them...total B.S.


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## Pharley (Apr 11, 2004)

I saw a guy bowfishing at Alum Creek, went over and talked to him a while. he had a pile of about 10-15 dead carp stacked up. Needless to say, they were not surviving his arrows. They were big thick fiberglass arrows with an enormous barbed tip.


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## bigjohn513 (Apr 6, 2004)

i've had frogs live thru a gigging but i dont think they would make it if i let them go...


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## Jitterbug (Apr 13, 2004)

I could be wrong. I'm sure some of these fish do die. It probably all depends where you hit them. All I know is that the time I saw a guy shooting them, they all swam away afterwards and looked relatively healthy (as healthy as one can look with a hole in its side). May depend on the diameter of the arrow and the type of head used. I, for one, do not agree with the practice and think that it is cruel to the fish despite the outcome.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

Oh man, I really would like to have my say on this, but out of repect for this site I will keep my feelings to myself...The only thing I will say is I am not a fan of bowfishing!


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## smalliehunter (Apr 12, 2004)

They were dead!!!!!!!!!


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## bowhazard (Apr 19, 2004)

Oh man, I really would like to have my say on this, but out of repect for this site I will keep my feelings to myself...The only thing I will say is I am a BIG fan of bowfishing!


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## THarris (Apr 12, 2004)

That is a good one....    "Some of the fish die"????? They ALL die....


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2004)

They will be the same people crying when there are none left. Rocky fork has already had a big carp kill this year and now we have people like this!  Im still young and its pretty depressing to know that when I get older and have kids there will no fish left for them to enjoy catching thanks to people like them. Its like trying to play football without a football. We are fishing without any fish to catch. Its a very sad joke.


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## smalliehunter (Apr 12, 2004)

You must be a bowfisher........... explain to me the reason you would not or maybe you do, but why you folks do not keep what you kill........I mean to me it seems like a waste, if you cant release the fish because its dead or mortally injured, or because its dead........... yet you dont keep the harvest....... explain that


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## bowhazard (Apr 19, 2004)

Sent ya' a PM smallie.


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## NocturnalDeath (Jul 22, 2004)

IF you are using what you shoot. Whether it be for food, bait, chum, and you only shoot what you need..

Too bad no bowfishermen here to chime in...

Part of taking a hunter's safety course is learning about wildlife conservation, I think you should have to take a class to get your fishing license...

As far as arrows killing fish... I doubt it... I mean geez if someone shot a bowfisherman with an arrow I'm sure they would just swim away...


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## shysterorange (Apr 14, 2004)

I used to do much of this myself. I cant imagine a carp making it more than 3 or 4 hours after being shot. If that long. Too big of a hole.....no way I can see this healing even if they were admitted in a carp..... hospital....Cmon look at the holes....the fishheads are barbed.....they were trying to get you off their back for the time being. They did that... they werent concerned and dont have to be concerned according to the state law. Kind of like hunting groundhogs.....you ever eat one of them suckers...how about a coyote? They are a "rough" fish. "Trash".......... Get this, in Kentucky you can bow hunt flatheads......thats right.Bowhunting catfish......I have watched them do it with rigs that have enough lights to light up a football field at night. These provide light 20 feet deep into the water....Cave Run....


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## shysterorange (Apr 14, 2004)

http://www.unitedbowhuntersofkentucky.org/brp_records.html


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## bowhazard (Apr 19, 2004)

DarkDeath, I bowfish and I'm here. If you have any questions just send me a PM. Heck, anyone for that matter. Not to argue, but to find out why I bowfish.

Trust me guys, discussing this in an open forum (especially with a lot of r&r carpers) goes downhill in a hurry. This is a great website and I don't want see it go down that road.


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## shuvlhed1 (Apr 13, 2004)

since no one here will take it, I suppose I will. Bow fishing is fine as long as the fish are being harvested. Chum, fertilizer, food, whatever. But come on, shoot and release???? Are your serious? I can honestly say I don't know one deer hunter who shoots and releases a buck. If this is such a great plan, maybe I can bowhunt your family pet and then turn him loose with a gaping bleeding hole thru its body. Is that cool? Any takers????


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Hey Guys- Hows that old saying go? Don't shoot the messenger? JitterBug was just the messenger  bowhazard is also correct. Threads like this can only go down hill, so we can maybe keep it civil  You guys know we all have been down this path before, and it just leads to hard feelings.I'm staying neutral in this.......... call me Swiss, I don't care.........  .C.K


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## Jitterbug (Apr 13, 2004)

I understand the sensitive nature of this subject along with others that have been posted lately (paylakes, etc.), but the way the responses are worded makes me very tentative about posting in the future. If we are not careful, we are going to limit our posting audience and be limited on the subjects discussed and the variety of responses. I enjoy hearing other people's points of view, even if they do conflict with my own. There is a way to express yourself without "going off." I said nothing personally in support of bowfishing (as I don't agree with it!). I was just reporting what I have been told, and what I have seen. Correct me if you feel my reply is wrong, but no need to jump on someone's back and make disparaging remarks. 

JB


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Hey Jitterbug- You are 100% correct. Don't let some replys keep you from posting. I realized that some of the replys were directed at you, and should not have been. That's the reason for me posting what I did. Don't worry about it. I've known some of these guys for a long while , and their passion for fishing runs deep  No excuses being made, just don't let this one thread keep you from enjoying this site. Any more problems contact me, or any other OGF team member, and we can work it out !! Post away guy  .THE CATKING !!!


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## muskiehunter (Jul 19, 2004)

once again i'm not debatin  ..but on the bright side, this site has alot of people who feel strongly for their cause.one way or the other...i personally believe nothing should die...but i gotta eat ....waste is different and in a general statement(mainly cause i dont know the birthrate of carps)i say..if ya kill all the little guys .there wont be any biguns..........not pickin on no one but has any carp bowhunters ever thought about shad bowhuntin..seems like smaller targets an more of em


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## Ranger 185 (May 5, 2004)

Bow fishing is good for gamefish. A body of water can only support a number of pounds of fish be rough fish or gamefish. Bow fisherman are only allowed to shoot rough fish like carp and gar. So they are realy doing all of the fisherman who fish for bass,walleye,crappie,and catfish a favor. this should anwser why no one keeps the fish they shoot. I do not bowfish myself but would like to see a lot more people doing it.it is vary good for the fishery.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

"Sucker - White 0 pounds 6 oz Aaron Pryor Rough River Lake April 29, 2003 "

lol couldnt help but laugh at the record for white suckers.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Ranger 185,
Your logic is flawed in that it assumes that the freed biomass (from the removal of carp or gar) will be replaced in the form of more and larger fish of other species. The total biomass supported by a given body of water is only one factor in the distribution of aquatic life. Habitat plays an equal if not greater part in determining the overall distribution of aquatic species. The habitat is not immediately or radically changed by the removal of a number of one species. With the habitat remaining fairly constant, the removal of a number of adult fish of one species will most likely result in a greater survival rate for the fry of the same species. That is, the large carp killed will most likely be replaced by a greater number of small carp.


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## Ranger 185 (May 5, 2004)

Rooster it is simple to much of one thing is bad for everythihg we all know that.


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## shysterorange (Apr 14, 2004)

We can debate all week if you like. The state wildlife/fisheries biologists seem to have had the same conclusion for the last 50 years. That decision being......shootem boys, gigem, get rid of em! Kind of like fishing for smallies in the spring of the year on Erie... You must rely on our elected and appointed officials to promote our natural resources to a higher level.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

If carp were that bad then the D.O.W. wouldnt throw them back when they electro-shock the waters.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Made a very valid point. I've talked to ODNR people who net carp (many over 30 pounds) and milk their eggs. These young carp are used to feed fish throughout the states hatcheries. They then release them back into the waters......... I believe Muskie are the #1 benefactors of this practice..... THE CATKING !!!


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## tpet96 (Apr 6, 2004)

Hey bowhazard......

Why don't ya drop me a PM. I'd like to see some insight into your reasons for bowhunting


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## bowhazard (Apr 19, 2004)

You got it, heading out right now but I'll get one sent shortly.


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## shysterorange (Apr 14, 2004)

I mean after you trap it... and get its fur....how about fox? Ever eat a redfox after taking its hide.? Groundhogs? and the list goes on and on. What about Crows? There used to be a bounty on them 40 years ago. How about Pigeons I realize none of these are classified as fish. I guess the buffalo wasnt either....but that was before we had educated officials governing our natural resources. As you have gathered,, I am not a big fan of Carp. Nothing against cats, but I have seen carp destroy a lake.... Catking.....thanks for editing my last post....I should not have taken it to a political level.

Thanks


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Great discussion guys and gals.Good views from both parties. Not a problem shysterorange about the edit  ..DA KING


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## bowhazard (Apr 19, 2004)

What is the purpose of the netting/electroshocking? Removal? Relocation? Research? 

Ahhh, Research.......
When the State is out doing their electroshock counts, they are doing a scientific study of the fishery. In order to maintain integrity of the study that is calculated over several years, they cannot willingly affect the outcome by removing ANY species. Pretty basic science. You must maintain (as must as possible) an unaltered mean/median in order to have accurate results.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

So if these same guys shocked and netted a big head carp in RockyFork, or even worst a snakehead fish, they would return it also??? They are not native to theses waters,same as our carp are not. So I don't believe that point is valid?? THE CATKING


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## bowhazard (Apr 19, 2004)

Boy, open my mouth once and get drug right in. But would I eat a beaver?  

Anyway,
I don't know what they would do with snakeheads, asian carp, or any other 'non-native' that are not listed in the Ohio DNR Fishing Regulations as a 'forage' or 'sport' fish. Plenty of bigheads have been released after tagging by reseachers in states south of us. They WILL be here shortly. Will they be added to the list of 'forage' fish in Ohio laws? We'll see. If they are, I'm sure they will be released for research purposes here also. Not that familar with snakeheads. (only that they look MEAN!  )

The dnr does yearly studies of the effects of environment ,fishing , bowfishing, etc has on the fish listed in our fishing regulations (not sea turtles, dolphins, or bigheads). It would only make sense to include those fish. How could they determine if the population of one species affected another or how they affect the enviornment if you removed the fish in the middle/beginning of the study? Like I said, simple science.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

If the division of wildlife seen carp as a serious threat, they would be removed as soon as they were netted regardless. 

ps. Beaver soup is prett tasty!


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## shysterorange (Apr 14, 2004)

The division doesnt have to waste time,energy, or money to remove them. They have made the provisions to handle in the least expensive way. Allow hunters or fisherman/bowfisherman to control the population for them. The same as urban permits for deer. So to say the division is not concerned with their population is wrong. They are concerned and are trying to control the population in a manner that fits within their budget. Carp are not a serious threat,it is too late to control this as with the goby and maybe even the snakehead. The introduction of new species alerts congress and *they can try * to stop the infiltration. If the division were to take carp out during their nettings or shockings... how would they dispose of them? It would cost money. Leave it to the fisherman/bowfisherman to handle for them. As I said before, If you get caught littering dead fish....that is another subject. Shooting them is a way of population control and the state realized this long ago. Disposal of them is the individuals responsiblity!


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

Hey you may be right, if the carp population was to large then bowfishing might be a desent way to controll it. But in my point of veiw the carp population at rockyfork sucks, and the populatipn does not need controlled at all. The virus that went through there already did that.


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## shysterorange (Apr 14, 2004)

The state has been known to and still does put specific regulations on individual lakes. I dont know that this would be possible for "carp". If they did that, snakehead and gobies would have rights too. Kind of like an illegal alien wanting voting rights here in the states. Not sure that is right and there are alot of opinions.. Good luck!


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## riverat (May 26, 2004)

I fish rocky often and was there during the peak of the carp (and bass) spawn
this year. The recent die off was about 5-10 %. More population control such as
bowhunting is needed. Bass spawn definitely affected.


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## cwcarper (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't see how bowfishing carp can really have any effect as far as controlling the population goes in the first place. I'm not a fisheries biologist, but i know enough about carp to understand that for every carp removed from a body of water, there are plenty more in line to take its place. There have even been studies done showing that removal of the larger specimens actually leads to an increase in the total population. Studies in Wisconsin (where drastic measures have been taken to eradicate carp in many waterways) have shown that lakes where large numbers of carp were removed from particular bodies of water were repopulated with carp within only a few years of the attempted eradication. There just aren't enough bowfishermen out there for it to have a significant effect on most bodies of water (as far as numbers of fish go...but there is potential for it to have a negative impact on the size distribution of fish if only larger specimens are targetted). 

Besides, they don't do nearly as much damage to most lakes/rivers as they're given credit for (a whole lot of exaggerations and outright myths exist about the damage that carp cause to our waterways)...and since they're such an abundant species, you might as well take advantage of that by targetting them as a sport fish.


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## muskiehunter (Jul 19, 2004)

one thing to remember is that here in Ohio we are (in most cases) dealing with smaller bodies of water compared to alot of states and the number of individuals harvesting the resource has a much greater impact regardless of game species. i personaly watched a large school of nice size white bass be utterly reduced to nothing because over the period of 2-3 weeks people were keeping 100's of fish per day and i've fished that body of water every year since and the population has not recovered or been "Replaced". so even though all thoses people were within the law and plans of the dnr ..it still happened....so just because you can do something, doesn't mean you always should!
......................"Heck there's millions of em, allready kilt 1000? aw go ahead ,shoot ya another buffalo!"


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