# legal?? ethical??



## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

here in indiana its not legal to hunt deer with dogs. sun we were hunting and heard these dogs running. as they got closer i seen this deer coming. i got my gun ready but could never get a good shot, so i didnt shoot, but i would have if i had got a decent shot. i even bleated a couple of times trying to get the deer to stop.

my son was hunting about 70 yrds from me (he likes to take care of me in my golden years) he bleated and the deer stopped for him. but it had been raining for 2 days and his gun slow fired. he did hit the deer but we spent the rest of the day trying to track it down. but with the dogs chasing it we just couldnt keep the trail. im pretty sure he killed the deer. the dogs only kept barking about 300 yrds or so and then went silent. i think the deer had died. but we searched for it for several hours and just couldnt find anything.

is it legal to shoot a deer being chased by someone elces dogs?? is it ethical to shoot a deer being chased by someone elces dogs?? i would like to know if anyone knows if it is legal. but i would also like your opinions on this one.
sherman


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## Hooch (Apr 14, 2004)

pardon my ignorance, but what is "slow fired"?


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Since they were not your dogs I would think it would be legal. Ethical? not for me. I would get no satisfaction from killing a deer be chased by a pack of dogs.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Hooch said:


> pardon my ignorance, but what is "slow fired"?


I'm guessing he was using a muzzleloader.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

Hooch said:


> pardon my ignorance, but what is "slow fired"?


its where the cap fires then a couple of seconds later the main charge fires. giving the deer just enough time to move before the gun fires. and can sometimes cause you to move off target just alittle. i didnt mention this in my orginal post but it is our muzzleloader season and we were hunting with muzzleloaders. hope this clears up what a slow fire is.

and i dont blame anyone who wouldnt shoot a deer being chased by dogs. but we travel 120 miles each way to the public property we hunt. and after setting in the rain for our 2nd day and not seeing anything this deer looked awful good,LOL. and this may be the only time we get to hunt this season. so it might have been our only chance to put meat in the freezer. if things work out where my son can get away to go hunting we might get one more weekend of hunting in. even tho we cant justify the cost of hunting by the meat we get it is nice to put alittle in the freezer.
sherman


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## Dizzy (Oct 1, 2012)

I don't deer hunt so this question might seem simple. 

I have heard that a deer that is spooked like this one will be full of adrenalin and that the adrenalin ruins the meet. That is why you try to get a lung shot so they don't run. 

As far as the dogs, isn't that poaching? If you did get a clean shot and dropped the deer right in front of you what then? Either the dog owners are going to show up or worse the game warden. I wouldn't want to deal with either group. Just seems like a can of worms.


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## CHOPIQ (Apr 6, 2004)

Was this on private property?


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## leupy (Feb 12, 2007)

If it was my property I would rather shoot the dog. Fresh coyote baid.


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## Rivergetter (Jun 28, 2011)

leupy said:


> If it was my property I would rather shoot the dog. Fresh coyote baid.


That's real nice. Think of the kids that will be waiting on that dog to come home. Mans best friend ??


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## leupy (Feb 12, 2007)

I guess the kids should keep their dog at home. You must live in the city, where I live people drop off dogs they get tired of all the time, what would you do with them? Let them stay and feed them with your own dogs, I would have 50. Call the dog warden so they could kill them or just let them starve. I know the nieghbors dogs and they know to keep them at home or they will get a call to come and get them, they don't like to get that call. No collar, No dog.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

we was hunting on state property, pigeon river wildlife area in northern indiana.

and the dog owner was close by. after my son shot he asked him if he had shot his dog. i guess he was hunting something elce and his dogs started chasing the deer.
sherman


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

leupy said:


> If it was my property I would rather shoot the dog. Fresh coyote baid.


You read my mind. You should have tried to shoot the damn dogs that were running that deer!

Edit: OK. I see by your (Sherman's) subsequent post that the the dog's owner was in the area. That could have made for an awkward scene. Some dogs will just run a deer track once they cross it. I used to hunt rabbit with a friend over his beagle. To this day I don't know how he could tell, but he just knew when his dog cut a deer track and was starting to run it. Guess it was a good thing you held off. As far as it being unethical to shoot at a deer being run by something that is out of your control, I'd have to say no. In fact, I saw a TV program, years ago, from a southern state where running and hunting deer with dogs was the accepted method. The hunters down there considered our way of hunting, to wait on stand for an unsuspecting deer to walk by, as nothing more than a low down, dirty ambush! 

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.


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## Wannabitawerm (Apr 13, 2004)

Shooting the deer, legal. Ethical? How about letting your dogs chase deer. I know guys who will shoot their own dog for running deer. If the owner can't control it, on public hunting land, they run that risk. If he let his dog do it in purpose he was wrong, and even if you shot the deer, it's not unethical in my opinion. I am a dog owner and a dog lover but the responsibility for my dogs lies with me. 


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

This is why you need to use shock collars. They work well when dogs are on deer. It happens. As far as ethical that is your opinion. I see it no different then driving deer or someone waking through the woods, you are just taking what is given to you. I am not commenting on shooting dogs it hits to close to home and I wish I never read this thread.

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## Rivergetter (Jun 28, 2011)

I live on a 60 acres well outside of town and have 5 dogs right now 3 of which were donated. It doesn't make it right to shot someone's dog the op made it clear that someone was running the dogs and that it wasn't a stray. Just plain wrong.


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## leupy (Feb 12, 2007)

I don't want anyone to think I would just go out and shoot dogs for no reason, (cats-maybe) if you own a dog or a cat it is your responcibility to control them and keep them on your own property or at leist under your control on others property. When you get tired of your pet don't just drive them to the country and drop them off, find some one to take them, take them to a shelter or shoot them yourself but don't bring them to the country and drop them off. On the other hand cats are different I really don't like them and like the owners that allow their cats to run loose even less, nuf said about what happens to them.


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## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

A short search tells me that hunting deer with dogs in IN is not legal, but tracking shot deer with a leashed dog is legal. This does not speak to the question of "is it legal to shoot a dog in IN?" Anyway, if dogs pushed a deer into my zone, and it stopped, I would take the shot and not feel bad.


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## VitalShot (Feb 10, 2012)

Wow! A lot of opinions here. In my early years I would of dropped the deer and the dog or dogs in their tracks. I have seen and been tore up on more than one occasion with dogs running deer while on stand. But I have learned a lot in the yrs in the field. Today I would shoot the deer if I wanted it but I will let the dog walk every time. It's just being a dog probably a good dog as it has prob got some good original blood line left in it that this place hasn't destroyed yet. Just needs to be pointed in the right direction. I get a lot more angry about some prick walking through my land pushing the deer. Just want to yell Where You Going City Boy! Lol. But back to the dogs. I run a tracking dog and have learned a great deal about what deer do being pushed by a dog even deer that are just scratched. Mature deer will often react diff than younger ones. They will make several turns and back tracks trying to throw off what ever is chasing it and a very large amount of the time they eventually make a circle and come right back. As a hunter it is aggravating when a dog blows deer by you but if it pushed a 200+ into you,you would love that dog. Lol! I believe you could shoot the deer legally as you are a innocent bystander to say. You had nothing or any knowledge of the dog running deer I would just call it luck. 


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## leupy (Feb 12, 2007)

I saw nothing that indicated someone was running the dogs, I went back and still see nothing although that is not a major issue with me. You have five dogs I only have one and if it wasn't for the fact my wife likes it I would send it to you so you could feed six. I love dogs but I am a situation to have one myself is not a good idea, my children live several hundred miles away and boarding is $50 dollars a day so it is either see my grandchildren and pay or not see the grandkids. I do not need another dog nor do I want one, I did have to shoot the best dog I ever had due to illness, I loved the dog and took her everywhere with me but as a pet owner when things get really bad you have a responibility to remove the misery and before you ask I think it should be the same with people. If anyone ever trys to put me in a nursing home they better have changed the combination of the gun safe.


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## Rivergetter (Jun 28, 2011)

Shooting the deer ethical in my opinion. Shooting a domesticated animal is against the law. That's all I have to say!!


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## fish4wall (Apr 14, 2004)

leupy..your going to out live us ALL!!! 
no nursing home for you...


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I don't think it would have been illegal or unethical IMO. You didn't run dogs; they aren't your dogs, you nor the owner intended to use dogs for hunting purposes; it was completely random. 

And to each their own, but why not shoot the deer? What is the difference between that and a non pressured deer? Would you also not shoot a deer pressured by say a car coming by the road, a kid on a ATV next door, a neighbor out walking their property, a farmer working the farm, etc.?

Many of the world's greatest bucks were taken in this fashion. World's #1 typical Milo Hanson Buck - a deer drive and the buck was running straight away from him..2 quick shots from a .308 and he has the world record buck. The same 2 shots we tell folks not to take - at a bouncing white tail. Gibson buck #3 typical...on a drive deer ran full speed right at him and stopped point blank...he dropped him at 10 yards facing him with a rifle. #5 typical Jansen buck...meat hunters in the early 60 and 70s out looking to get freezer meat. The drive was over and they were sitting on the ground when this buck sneaked out the back of the cover they had just pushed at 150 yards in front of the group...he grabbed his rifle and dropped it while they watched. They weren't even whitetail hunting...they saw mostly mule deer on their land.

The list goes on and on.....I don't think most deer hunters would refrain from shooting a deer that was unintentionally pushed by dogs.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Rivergetter said:


> Shooting the deer ethical in my opinion. Shooting a domesticated animal is against the law. That's all I have to say!!
> 
> 
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dude... hes not gonna kill a dog... lighten up


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## moosejohn (Feb 25, 2010)

i think ethically and leagally your just fine. they are not your dogs! no different than if someone jumped the deer and run it to you. right place right time . too bad you did not find it better luck next time.


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## Wannabitawerm (Apr 13, 2004)

Personal responsibility seems to be fading fast. Keep your animals under control or don't own them. 


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## fish*FEAR*me (Mar 8, 2006)

I have a couple Beagles that I rabbit hunt with. They have e-collars and i can usually correct them quickly, but if they were to be shot, that person better be nowhere around when i find out. Because it wont be good for them. I can promise that.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

Fishlandr75 said:


> dude... hes not gonna kill a dog... lighten up


thanks fishlandr75. we had no intent on shooting the mans dogs. but after hearing my son shoot the guy thought he might have shot his dog. it does happen, there are some hunters that would shoot a dog for chasing deer. but we are not those hunters.

and i,ve been trying to look at it as what would be the difference between shooting this deer or shooting a deer that had been jumped and driven to us by another hunter just walking through the woods. and i think this happens alot more than people think on public property.

thanks to all you guys that have gave your opinions.
sherman


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## Wannabitawerm (Apr 13, 2004)

fish*FEAR*me said:


> I have a couple Beagles that I rabbit hunt with. They have e-collars and i can usually correct them quickly, but if they were to be shot, that person better be nowhere around when i find out. Because it wont be good for them. I can promise that.


If you rabbit hunt with your beagles, then I doubt they would chase off after deer. The point being, if your dogs bolt after deer when they see them, keep them on a leash and out ofthe woods. If you can't control them, they have no business being off leash. If my dog runs in the street and gets hit, whose at fault? Me for failing to control them or the guy driving on a public roadway obeying the law who can't stop in time? It's the owner of the dogs' responsibility is all I'm saying. 


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## nodog (Aug 23, 2012)

Dogs can be a pain and a blessing. In Va. where they are legal they've helped push the deer round (not my dogs) On private small properties (OH illegal) where land is limited they are a pain. Nothing wrong in my book shooting a deer pushed by another animal after all isn't that why we love the rut. If you shot the deer there's also nothing wrong with making sure the deer is dead after a dog has found it. 

Bottom line, don't miss wasting days, weeks and months of time and untold amounts of money. 

Buck I shot this year was shot by someone who wasn't ready. When I striped off the hide I found a slug in it's hind and wondered how my slug got all the way back there. It looked like it had been surgically implanted, no trauma or holes, must have been there a few years. I found my slug where I left it. Son shot his first this year. We'd shot earlier in the year and I swear he put 2 shots in one hole so I knew he would hit what he was aiming at. 135 yards, deer dropped dead where it stood.

Wasn't illegal or unethical using them dogs and you already know it wasn't right to shoot them. You and your son made some memories and learned something. Next time you'll get'm. Got'a love ML's. I hate losing deer.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

sherman51 said:


> thanks fishlandr75. we had no intent on shooting the mans dogs. but after hearing my son shoot the guy thought he might have shot his dog. it does happen, there are some hunters that would shoot a dog for chasing deer. but we are not those hunters.
> 
> and i,ve been trying to look at it as what would be the difference between shooting this deer or shooting a deer that had been jumped and driven to us by another hunter just walking through the woods. and i think this happens alot more than people think on public property.
> 
> ...


i agree...someone probly would or has done that at some point (shoot a dog )....IMO...i really dont think youd be in the wrong if you took a safe shot at a deer that was jumped by some random dog in the woods...as far as ethical goes...i still see nothing wrong with taking a safe shot and harvesting a deer this way..maybe some would disagree...but most on here have not.


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