# Muzzleloader Powder Survey



## dwmikemx (Mar 22, 2008)

How much powder do you use in your inline MZl's?? 100 or 150 ?

I use 100 gr. ( 2 - 777 pellets) as I have never had to shoot a deer farther than 50 or 60 yards.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

90 grains of Blackhorn 209. Shot deer over 130 yds with it.


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## phishyone1 (Jun 27, 2008)

150 whitehots powder with 250 grain shockwave bullet


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

I shoot 150 grns of 777, 3 50 grn pellets. works great in my gun. it has dropped many deer in there tracks. im still shooting the cva slickloads in 250 grn. they don't make them any more but I stocked up when they got hard to find.
sherman


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## partlyable (Mar 2, 2005)

I shoot 100 gr. of 777 blackpowder.


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## M R DUCKS (Feb 20, 2010)

100 grns. loose 777 and a 300 grain XTP
Wanting/thinking of switching to Blackhorn 209 just haven't taken the time to do so.
Thoughts/comments/encouragement/discouragement ?


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

110 grains of goex FF. Have used triple seven in the past with good results but the problem that I had with it was that it looses pressure. What I mean by this is that the longer the can sits the more powder you need to keep the same POI. Have heard some good results from people using blackhorn 209. The problem with that is that clean up with the breach plugs and nipples is harder. Also you need a hot 209 primer to egnight it.


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## tOSUSteve (May 30, 2007)

90 grain by volume of BlackHorn -


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

M R DUCKS said:


> 100 grns. loose 777 and a 300 grain XTP
> 
> Wanting/thinking of switching to Blackhorn 209 just haven't taken the time to do so.
> 
> Thoughts/comments/encouragement/discouragement ?



I think you will be pleased with the blackhorn. Very easy to clean also. I've used it for 4 years now and have never had a problem. I use a standard 209 primer and have had 0 issues out of my encore. Another nice benefit is it cleans up with the same products you use for any other gun. No water being introduced to you gun. 


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## mmukav (Nov 15, 2013)

I use 2--50 grain White Hots, 295 Powerbelts.


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## FAB (May 26, 2013)

I have used everything from FFF black to white hots to 777 but by far and the best black powder substitute I have found is Black Horn 209. I burns super clean, I can shoot 25 or 30 rounds at the range with no change in the loading pressure, very little smoke. And at 90 grains pushing a 300 grain Hornady SST with a standard CCI 209 shotgun primer, I have killed 2 deer over 225 yards and more in the 150 to 175 range. 
Don't have to worry about it drawing moisture like the other powders, just put a tape cap to keep the rain out and your good to go. I will never go back to any of the other types of powder. 

With all that said these are the don't do's :
1. BH 209 is harder to ignite than the other powders and requires a standard 209 primer not the black powder or muzzle loader primers. 

2. BH 209 produces a lot of energy and is not recommended for bullet weights over 450 grains. 

3. Due to the extra flash needed to ignite the BH209 it may be necessary to open the flash orifice on some breech plugs to insure consistent firing.

4. It is recommended only for in-line muzzle loaders, side locks, flints etc. are a no go.


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## bigeye1 (Nov 13, 2007)

150 grains of pyrodex 300 grain shockwave. I don't need that for most of the deer I have shot, but last year I dropped one at 130 give or take. I held right on the shoulder, and that is where it hit.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

bobk said:


> I think you will be pleased with the blackhorn. Very easy to clean also. I've used it for 4 years now and have never had a problem. I use a standard 209 primer and have had 0 issues out of my encore. Another nice benefit is it cleans up with the same products you use for any other gun. No water being introduced to you gun.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Blackhorn 209 is an excellent powder. First tried it a couple of years ago in a MZ I set up for a family member. I like it MUCH better than Pyrodex or T7 loose or pellets. I have hunted almost exclusively with a MZ for the last 20 years and it would be my go to powder with out a doubt if I wasn't shooting smokeless MZ's.


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

They say not to ever use over a 120 grns of loose power says that in both of ny manuals on the 2 muzzleloaders Ive got 1 is a Encore and the other is A NEF


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## FAB (May 26, 2013)

slimdaddy45 said:


> They say not to ever use over a 120 grns of loose power says that in both of ny manuals on the 2 muzzleloaders Ive got 1 is a Encore and the other is A NEF


Generally with loose black what happens with too much powder is you just blow it out the end of the barrel unburned.(NOT SO WITH SMOKELESS) Years ago we used to check our max loads on the long guns by shooting them over the snow, when we started seeing powder on the snow we would back down 5 grains. usually worked out to be somewhere around 100 or 110 grains in a 50 cal. and a little less in 45 and a lot less in 32. 

Although the 50 grain pellets are convenient they are not the most accurate or consistent load. And the binder starch material used to form the pellet dirties the barrel in 2 to 3 shots, much faster than loose.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

slimdaddy45 said:


> They say not to ever use over a 120 grns of loose power says that in both of ny manuals on the 2 muzzleloaders Ive got 1 is a Encore and the other is A NEF


That is because 50 grains of loose powder is not equal to a 50 grain pellet. I 50 grain pellet is much less powerful(less pressure) than 50 grain of loose of the same powder type.

That is why many guns are rated for 3- 50 gr pellets or 120 grain loose powder.

Pellets are convenient but are not necessarily(usually not) the best load option for your gun to obtain optimum performance


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## Dawitner (Apr 25, 2004)

65 grains FF in a flintlock. Checked POI at various yard ages and no issues. I shoot 70 grains by weight of Blackhorn in an Omega launching a 250 gr Barnes boat tail wrapped in a Harvester crush rib sabot. You can't find a better powder ! Throw that 777 in the trash.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

dwmikemx said:


> How much powder do you use in your inline MZl's?? 100 or 150 ?
> 
> I use 100 gr. ( 2 - 777 pellets) as I have never had to shoot a deer farther than 50 or 60 yards.


Well, you can shoot deer a heck of a lot farther than 50-60 yards with two 50gr pellets. As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to use three 50gr pellets is if you enjoy wasting powder, or are into self abuse!


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

I'm a flintlock hunter (PA late season). 100gr pyrodex with a 235 gr buffalo bullet. Used to shoot 90 gr with a 180 gr round ball. Both kill deer quite efficiently...except the time I had a slow fire and the deer walked away before the gun went off;-)


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Misdirection said:


> ...except the time I had a slow fire and the deer walked away before the gun went off;-)


You forgot the follow through Those slowfires are always fun


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## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

I shoot 80 grains of triple 7 in sidelock guns and I have watched a 200 yd shot with that load. Unless you have 36 inch barrel you are throwing it on the ground if your shooting more


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## fishforfun (Apr 9, 2005)

13o gr. 2 /50 and 1/30 pellet. with a 250 gr barnes MZ T EZ . with 130 grains of powder that seems to shoot the best with any bullets so far out of my Knight Original Disc.


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

Blackhorn 209, case closed! Nothing else even comes close in my opinion.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Saugernut said:


> Blackhorn 209, case closed! Nothing else even comes close in my opinion.


what he said.

but i ALWAYS weight all my charges. i did however make the mistake when i first started using it to go by volume (READ THE BOTTLE), i went with 150 grains VOLUME... big mistake, i knew after the 2nd shot when it kept kicking like a .458 winchester something was wrong.lol.


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## beetlebailey (May 26, 2009)

got a knight 50 cal. I shoot 100 grains triple 7 and 295 grain powerbelt..


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

100 grains of IMR White Hots (2 pellets) with a Harvester 300 grain Scorpion PT Gold bullet in the Harvester black Crush Rib sabot.


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## cumminsmoke (Aug 13, 2013)

120 grain of triple 7 with a 195 grain bullet out of my 45 cva magnum. Used to shoot 150 but found no difference dropping to 120 other than tighter groups. 

My Savage ML10 II takes smokeless or black, they are the 1 of only a couple made for that. I still don't think it drops deer like my 45


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## HookSet Harvey (Aug 12, 2010)

100 grain of 777 with a 250 grain Hornady sst


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## bowkdws (Feb 1, 2010)

I use 100 and stay within 100 yds.
A recent article in Outdoor Life stated for inline muzzy's use 100 for 0-100 yds, 150 for 101-200 yds, and never shoot over 200 yds as there is not enough velocity remaining for an ethical kill.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Was shooting 110grns. American Pioneer with a 250grn. Hornady SST and low drag sabots out of 50cal. T/C Encore. Switched to Blackhorn last year and found it's sweet spot with the same projectile at 100grs. by volume.



> Orig. posted by *bowkdws*:
> 
> A recent article in Outdoor Life stated for inline muzzy's use 100 for 0-100 yds, 150 for 101-200 yds, and never shoot over 200 yds as there is not enough velocity remaining for an ethical kill.


IMO, the info. in that article is about as far from factual as can be.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

cumminsmoke said:


> 120 grain of triple 7 with a 195 grain bullet out of my 45 cva magnum. Used to shoot 150 but found no difference dropping to 120 other than tighter groups.
> 
> My Savage ML10 II takes smokeless or black, they are the 1 of only a couple made for that. I still don't think it drops deer like my 45





fastwater said:


> Was shooting 110grns. American Pioneer with a 250grn. Hornady SST and low drag sabots out of 50cal. T/C Encore. Switched to Blackhorn last year and found it's sweet spot with the same projectile at 100grs. by volume.
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, the info. in that article is about as far from factual as can be.


There's the rub! At least as far as what I highlighted! And it doesn't just pertain to ML's! I've met more amateur "ballistics experts" at the range who believed that all they had to do was put the max number of grains of the fastest burning powder in a cartridge behind the lightest bullet they could get away with, and that was their "hot load"! Never mind that they couldn't hit anything with it! It's been demonstrated time and again that a smaller charge, including powder that burns more slowly and completely, results in better bullet flight and muzzle velocity! 

Of course, everybody's looking for the flattest shooting projectile they can find, but you have to understand the limitations of a ML. You're not going to get performance like you can out of a centerfire! It just ain't gonna happen! 

As far as that magazine articles goes, well, that's another yahoo's opinion! I don't care what kind of a "rainbow' trajectory you're throwing out there, as long as the bullet is arriving on target, with sufficient kinetic energy, you will kill deer!


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

I had triple7 go bad after a year.. I had a box of Pyrodex pellets next to it that was 3 years old, they shot just fine. I went back to Pyrodex. easy no hassle yes a little dirty but works for me..

I am sure the BH is great powder but the little I shoot I will still use Pyrodex..

Thanks for the heads up about BH maybe in the future I will try it out.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

You're spot on *buckeyebowman*.

IMO, here's the real deal... and it's not brain surgery.

Nobody can tell someone what load their specific bp rifle likes best nor what to do to squeeze the best out of their rifle. 


The RIFLE will tell ya what it likes. It will tell ya its 'sweet spot'. Only thing the person has to do is spend the range time to find out what load a gun likes. 

There's 4 inlines and five caplocks in the safe in there. They are different... like different charges, some like to be seated lightly, some hard. All the inlines shoot sabots better then I'm capable of shooting them and a couple of them don't shoot RB's too bad either. A few of the caplocks shoot .495 RB's with .015 lubed patch the best, one likes a .095 with a lubed .018 patch that you almost have to drive in with a hammer while the others can shoot a .490 with lubed .018 patch.
All that... then the powder charges, seating pressures and primers to figure out.

But that's the fun of shooting.


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

bowkdws said:


> I use 100 and stay within 100 yds.
> A recent article in Outdoor Life stated for inline muzzy's use 100 for 0-100 yds, 150 for 101-200 yds, and never shoot over 200 yds as there is not enough velocity remaining for an ethical kill.


I am going to have to cry foul on that article too. The article is not even historically accurate. We were folding buffalo into the fetal position with hand cast projectiles in excess of 200 yards using black powder in the 19th century. That was with 90/100/110/120 grain charges of BP. 

150 grains of BP substitute with the right projectile and the right gun is capable of "ethically" taking game in excess of 1000 yards. Not skinny little deer either. Large North American game like buffalo, elk and moose.

The really sad part is that article sucked people into limiting their ranges to 200 yards using buzz words like "ethical kill". I guess that works for public safety the best. It doesn't represent anything that resembles a proper firearms/ballistics education however.


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## tagalong09 (Jul 25, 2012)

I shoot an t/c encore 50cal and I have used pryodex 50gr pellets in past years with very good groups at both 100yd out to 200yds and have killed deer at that distants. 
I am changing to the buckhorn 209 [100 gr] this season because I get an even better grouping at 100yds. 1in x 2.75in group shooting a 195gr precision ballistic tip bullet.
if you look at the web site for precision bullets there is a lot of facts and data on all kinds of powder and different bullets shoot in several different guns.
tagalong


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

buckeye dan said:


> The really sad part is that article sucked people into limiting their ranges to 200 yards using buzz words like "ethical kill". I guess that works for public safety the best. It doesn't represent anything that resembles a proper firearms/ballistics education however.


Thats about the only message in that article that I did agree with but the limit has little to do with the load capability and a whole lot to do with the average shooter ability.


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## wildlife53 (Jun 12, 2011)

I use 90 grains of Triple 7 out of my TC Encore. That is what works the best for me. I tried two 50 grain pellets but it did not work as well as the 90 grains of loose powder.


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