# toledo 11's exact cost of ice rescue



## ao203 (Mar 29, 2006)

Cost tallied for massive Lake Erie ice rescue

Posted: March 10, 2009 12:35 PM

Updated: March 10, 2009 01:21 PM

Posted by LS - email

(WTOL) - We now know just how much last month's massive ice rescue on Lake Erie cost, and the numbers are staggering. The total is nearly $250,000.

* The Ottawa County sheriff tells News 11 his office spent more than $11,000 on three air boats.
* Also, 58 Coast Guard personnel responded at a cost of $21,000.
* Three helicopters ran up a bill for 13 hours, totaling $134,000.
* Just five hours of a Coast Guard aircraft cost tax payers $79,000. 

There are currently no plans to charge the more than 130 fisherman who were pulled from the ice floe.

Nearly all the fisherman made it out unharmed. One man died during the rescue. Fisherman Leslie Love fell through the ice during rescue. Ottawa County Sheriff Bob Bratton says the 65-year-old man made it ashore, but CPR attempts on the way to the hospital were not enough to save him.


----------



## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

ao203 said:


> Cost tallied for massive Lake Erie ice rescue
> 
> Posted: March 10, 2009 12:35 PM
> 
> ...


58 CG personel...............puleazzzzzzzzzze. How many of those were on the boat that only veered about 10 miles out of it's path to stop right at the edge of the ice and hold for further instructions only to be told after a couple hours to carry on. I think they're inflating their numbers just a bit. I guess that's what ya get with the media these days.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure I could buy an airboat for $11k.


----------



## bassmastermjb (Apr 8, 2004)

And I thought $250.00 our government paid for a toilet seat is staggering.Sounds a little far fetched like the guy that passed away before the rescue even got started, but not according to Sheriff Bratton.......Mark


----------



## Fishpro (Apr 6, 2004)

crittergitter said:


> 58 CG personel...............puleazzzzzzzzzze. How many of those were on the boat that only veered about 10 miles out of it's path to stop right at the edge of the ice and hold for further instructions only to be told after a couple hours to carry on. I think they're inflating their numbers just a bit. I guess that's what ya get with the media these days.
> 
> Oh, and I'm pretty sure I could buy an airboat for $11k.


You might get a POS airboat for 11 grand, but a good one is gonna cost you. These ain't the same ones you seen in the Everglades. 

I think $250,000 is out there a little. Thats a quarter of a million for one rescue. I guarentee if it was in the summertime and there had to be a mass rescue, the manpower wouldn't be there because of how spread out the coast guard is during the summer. The only reason so many were dispatched was because there wasn't anything else going on. Thats the way I figure it anyhow.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

ao203 said:


> Cost tallied for massive Lake Erie ice rescue
> 
> 
> Nearly all the fisherman made it out unharmed. One man died during the rescue. Fisherman Leslie Love fell through the ice during rescue. Ottawa County Sheriff Bob Bratton says the 65-year-old man made it ashore, but CPR attempts on the way to the hospital were not enough to save him.


This account is totally WRONG!


----------



## BigDaddy300 (Nov 1, 2004)

Fishpro said:


> You might get a POS airboat for 11 grand, but a good one is gonna cost you. These ain't the same ones you seen in the Everglades.
> 
> I think $250,000 is out there a little. Thats a quarter of a million for one rescue. I guarentee if it was in the summertime and there had to be a mass rescue, the manpower wouldn't be there because of how spread out the coast guard is during the summer. The only reason so many were dispatched was because there wasn't anything else going on. Thats the way I figure it anyhow.


So many were dispatched because at the begining of the rescue they had no idea how many had to be rescued. When I first heard of it, there were reports of 500 stranded.


----------



## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

The report is wrong. Once again, the TV media doesn't let the facts get in the way of shock factor.

Two weeks ago, there was a big fire in Birmingham, Ohio. Post office/restaurant burned down. At least 10 different fire departments provided mutual aid in battling the blaze. How much did that cost? Where's the outrage?

When the deer broke through the frozen pond in North Olmsted and the fire department was dispatched to rescue the animal, who paid that bill? Where was the outrage then?

The big meeting Thursday with Sheriff Bratton should be interesting. Can't wait to see the reports that come from that. If there are good, level headed suggestions and input from anglers, I'm sure it will be ignored in favor of emotional, raw name calling and other comments from the sheriff and others involved... I have no faith the media will do any of us justice, nor even Sheriff Bratton.

Pitiful.


----------



## goodday (Dec 24, 2004)

http://ottawacountysheriff.org/documents/ERP initial document 01-08-06.pdf


----------



## nixmkt (Mar 4, 2008)

Don't want to argue the specifics of the recent incident. Statistics can usually be manipulated to justify various conclusions. Never been on Lake Erie ice and don't know if I ever will be, but have been ice fishing for many years.

Not being a legal expert, I have some questions based on this and other exerpts from the E.R.P. in the previous post: "The Sheriff or his designee has declared an emergency, determining that the ice conditions are unsafe and that all must evacuate the ice."

If an emergency has not been declared yet, thereby indicating the ice conditions have not been determined to be unsafe, how could someone be faulted for venturing out onto the ice that hasn't been determined to be unsafe?

How will the ice be determined to be unsafe? What specific criteria will be checked or verified to determine if the ice is unsafe?

If an incident occurs and an emergency is declared in the beginning of a season, what criteria will be utilized to declare the emergency over (ice not unsafe?)? What about a recordbreaking cold season with the entire lake covered with ice?

Will the ice be determined to be unsafe and an emergency be declared as soon as any ice forms on the lake and remain in effect continuously for the whole winter?

Will this affect "inland" lakes?

Got several more but figure I better quit.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't know how the CG can afford to run their helicopters when they cost them over $10,000/hour. And the airplane was almost $16,000/hour. They better leave those on the ground until they get a signed check in hand from now on.

The sad thing is their are probably some people who are so naive as to believe those numbers.


----------



## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

Helicopter cost $10,000/hr? Those pilots must have some awesome salaries. Or their fuel is $700/gal.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Bassnpro1 said:


> Helicopter cost $10,000/hr? Those pilots must have some awesome salaries. Or their fuel is $700/gal.


I imagine they are paid well but I read that to be that they were part of the 58 respondents listed for the $21,000 price tag. That would mean it is the high priced fuel.


----------



## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

Not an ice fisherman either, but have to disagree with those numbers too...! Considering that most, if not all, of the emergency respondents would have been on duty anyway, the manpower charges should not fully apply. Also, the equipment cost that was used is likely pulling numbers out of the air.
Whoever put these numbers together needs to explain how they arrived at them. Anything less is no more than sensationalism...! Shame on the publicity seekers and the media...!


----------



## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

Hook N Book said:


> Whoever put these numbers together needs to explain how they arrived at them. Anything less is no more than sensationalism...! Shame on the publicity seekers and the media...!


I think that these agencies should be held to the same accounting standards as all companies. I think they should be audited! Putting numbers out there that aren't true or don't have the records to back them up should be illegal, just as in business.


----------



## GF John (Jul 12, 2008)

Please remember sheriff Bratton on election day.


----------



## swantucky (Dec 21, 2004)

I just talked to one of the charter captins that used his airboat to get guys off the ice that day. He said that the CG did not pull a single person off the ice. It was done by the FD and private airboats. If this is the case and I have no reason to doubt it is true the CG has some serious explaining to do.


----------



## Steel Cranium (Aug 22, 2005)

How much does this cost? Will these guys have to pay anyone back?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29639530/

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Crews Rescue Kayakers From Cuyahoga River

KENT, Ohio - Crews were at the Cuyahoga River off Main Street in Kent, Ohio, to rescue a kayaker Wednesday afternoon.

Police said one kayaker has been rescued and the search is ongoing for another.

Officials said their kayak overturned and both were thrown into the water.

The first kayaker was able to swim to safety. The second was trapped on an island and held onto the tree until firefighters arrived.

*About 38 people helped with the rescue.*

Both were examined at the scene by paramedics but did not need further treatment.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems like someone in a canoe or kayak dumps into the 'hoga every spring during high water periods. Wonder why the mayor or Kent/Cuyahoga Falls doesn't go on CNN requesting these guys to pay back costs of the rescue. They didn't cross a crack in the ice, just launched watercraft in dangerous and high water.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

swantucky said:


> I just talked to one of the charter captins that used his airboat to get guys off the ice that day. He said that the CG did not pull a single person off the ice. It was done by the FD and private airboats. If this is the case and I have no reason to doubt it is true the CG has some serious explaining to do.


I may be wrong but I thought that most of the crying over this was being done by the sheriff's office. In fact when I read the one article back near the time of the event I got the impression that the Coast Guard was not making a big deal out of the whole thing. Or am I way off on this one?


----------



## swantucky (Dec 21, 2004)

bkr43050 said:


> I may be wrong but I thought that most of the crying over this was being done by the sheriff's office. In fact when I read the one article back near the time of the event I got the impression that the Coast Guard was not making a big deal out of the whole thing. Or am I way off on this one?


You are correct, it is the sheriff making the most noise. The reason I bring up the CG is because the 250k is all over the media. I don't think the full story is being told and those are inflated numbers they are putting out there. The CG said in the paper today that they included maintenence costs in the cost of the rescue. Do they not normally maintain their equipment??? It would seem like that would be a fixed cost not something unique to the rescue. 

If they are going to dicuss costs I would like an honest accounting of how much MORE the rescue cost over and above what they spend on daily operations.


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

The reason I mentioned it that way was that I wondered if the CG was even responsible for coming up with the numbers for their costs. It sounds like from what you indicated that they may have indeed came up with them. I totally agree that they are extremely inflated when they start adding any cost they can think of despite the costs being incurred regardless of the activity.


----------



## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

The published cost by the Coast Guard was $250k.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


swantucky said:


> The CG said in the paper today that they included maintenence costs in the cost of the rescue. Do they not normally maintain their equipment??? It would seem like that would be a fixed cost not something unique to the rescue.
> 
> If they are going to dicuss costs I would like an honest accounting of how much MORE the rescue cost over and above what they spend on daily operations.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Right On Randy but.......................The odds are against you ever getting an answer.


----------



## swantucky (Dec 21, 2004)

IMO the meeting went well with Sheriff Bratton and Sheriff Telb. I think they learned a heck of alot tonight. I would hate to try and guess how many years of Erie icefishing expirence were sitting in that room. It was kinda funny to see so many familar faces, guys you see on the ice year after year.


----------



## NorthSouthOhioFisherman (May 7, 2007)

Thanks for the update Randy


----------



## vc1111 (Apr 13, 2004)

This "what does it cost the taxpayer" thing is not really new. It has been the same thing in a variety of outdoor activities for years. For example, rock climbing requires an occasional rescue. People get injured from a falling bolder or a fall and need assistance getting off the side of the rock. Same thing gets reported. 

In some areas, this has escalated to where fees are being charged for anyone wishing to access certain ascents. I believe Denali is one of them. 

I won't say what is right or wrong, but I would think that if this were reported about rock climbers triggering tax payer expenditures, sentiments might vary. 

It is sad how we choose to propose that certain "public services" are a birth right and others are frivolous. Lol, now try and figure out where you (or I) stand within that statement. I'll clarify my stance by simply stating that when it comes to certain events which obviously cause the taxpayers a ton of money, no one even so much as thinks about the costs in the same terms. A Friday night football game for example. Or even any given high school basketball game. Add up the costs of the stadium or court maintenance, heat, electric, uniforms, equipment, and on and on. 

But that's "sports," so that is considered different somehow, despite the fact that with no casualties, there is still a large expenditure of public funds for the amusement of but a small number of people. Thus, one sport is considered almost necessary, or at least "tradition" and the other (like ice fishing or rock climbing) is simply unnecessary because the others are out of the "ordinary."

It is also sad how we convert such things to dollars. As others have pointed out, if it were not for the ice event, those folks would have been on duty anyway...or conducting "exercises" in case an actual event or even a similar event took place. And then no one would question the cost of the exercises because after all, preparedness is prudence, right?

I also agree that the sensationalism in our "news" media really feeds the politics that often swirls around these rare events where something goes wrong for a sportsmen.

Sorry about the man that died and I'm glad the rest were okay.


----------



## The One (Jun 9, 2007)

How much is the bailout costing us? You want talk about staggering! You want to get P/O'd about something? $250,000 won't cover the cost Gary Madoff's trial. Why was a C-130 brought in from North Carolina?


----------



## NorthSouthOhioFisherman (May 7, 2007)

Hey swanny you got about 1-2seconds of air time, I saw ya the other night at 11


----------

