# New Public Land Rule for Antlerless Deer Harvest



## TheKing

Finally had a chance to read the new Wild Ohio 2019 Calendar edition this morning. I noticed for the first time that new rules for antlerless deer are in effect this year concerning public land. The new rule is that no antlerless deer may be taken on public land between December 3rd and the end of the deer season, February 3rd. I was surprised - I did not know that.


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## Shad Rap

Yep.


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## TheKing

I wish that rule would go statewide.


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## chrisrf815

I dont think its a bad thing either, did they say why or give a reason? My guess is the does are pregnant at that point.


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## TheKing

chrisrf815 said:


> I dont think its a bad thing either, did they say why or give a reason? My guess is the does are pregnant at that point.


I'd bet you are right on the impact of doing it. It said that the public land hunters are not seeing enough deer, or to that effect. And they actually listened to them.


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## chrisrf815

TheKing said:


> I'd bet you are right on the impact of doing it. It said that the public land hunters are not seeing enough deer, or to that effect. And they actually listened to them.


I agree with that 100 percent, being a public land hunter. Ive only seen 1 deer in 6 trips this year. Its been tough but im not giving up.


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## TheKing

chrisrf815 said:


> I agree with that 100 percent, being a public land hunter. Ive only seen 1 deer in 6 trips this year. Its been tough but im not giving up.


I have hunted private land in Greene and Highland counties for 15 years. The does have been in much lower count throughout and that's based on numerous cameras well placed over time.


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## Fishstix

I agree with King completely. ODNR puts out a informational report each year based off hunter surveys. One thing is for sure, many hunters are not happy and less people are hunting. One talking point was deer sightings being less and less. I feel ODNR did this to try and help boost the herd numbers.

I remember hunting the late 90's early 2000's. Hunting was awesome then. I saw all kinds of deer. A few years after the state changed the limit from 3 to 6 deer in some counties, I began to notice a significant difference in the amount of deer I saw. I was glad to see them bring the limit back down to 3. I hunt private land adjacent to state land, so I am in favor of the rule because I feel it will have an impact on the herd I am hunting.


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## snag

TheKing said:


> Finally had a chance to read the new Wild Ohio 2019 Calendar edition this morning. I noticed for the first time that new rules for antlerless deer are in effect this year concerning public land. The new rule is that no antlerless deer may be taken on public land between December 3rd and the end of the deer season, February 3rd. I was surprised - I did not know that.


I bet next week there will be someone that didn’t read that new rule and shoot a doe on public land. I saw the list on the DNR site ,covers all the public lands. 


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## lawrence1

I guess I’m in the minority here because I don’t like it. Mostly because I’m busy with other pursuits in the fall and Deer hunt in January. Oh well, I’ve adjusted and taken my Doe already.

Too many hunters think there should be a monster behind every tree and become disenchanted when they can’t get instant gratification like they perceive the videos they watch make it look like. Hence, the complaints.

I think it’s possible we’ll see more small bucks taken on public land that a lot of guys would normally pass up.


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## floater99

I may be wrong but I thought I read there were also specific areas where you could still shoot a doe on public land ? I could not find any info to support that in the regs book going to make black powder season tougher for me oh well keep at it


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## bdawg

I've hunted the same public land for almost 20 years now. I've seen half the number of deer the last 10 years that I saw the 1st 10 years. The number of hunters on the land during gun season has been about the same. Hearing less shots though. I think it's a combination of the liberal deer regs, increased coyote numbers, and increased popularity of bowhunting. Also, shot a diseased deer from there last year. Not sure what it had, but it's chest cavity stunk and it had a weird brownish color inside the rib cage. It was a deer that was shot in the heart/lungs and killed right away and gutted right away. Otherwise, it looked healthy. We didn't eat it. 

If they are going to keep this rule, they should move the muzzleloader season to before gun season. My muzzleloader will end up sitting in the gun cabinet all year now unless I hunt private land.


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## killingtime

Bucks that lose antlers by muzzleloader season will be happy with this rule. I don’t hunt public land anymore but understand the reasoning behind the rule with low deer numbers on public ground but feel bad for the guys that hunt late season for a chance to put meat in the freezer. To many years of high deer bag limits have taken its toll on state ground it sounds like to me.


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## Craig Fox

chrisrf815 said:


> I dont think its a bad thing either, did they say why or give a reason? My guess is the does are pregnant at that point.


You're correct.


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## STRONGPERSUADER

Imo private land/permission is very few and far between but the number of hunters increase every year putting more and more hunters on public land. I think this can/has plays a huge part in the change of the doe population hence the regs. That and more and more of deer are in the urban areas. It’s not uncommon to have 5 or 6 does in my back yard at any given time right here in the city of Mentor.


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## $diesel$

I'm sure all metioned above are reasons for the decline in numbers.
Is it coincidence though, that roughly 10 years ago is when the coyotes showed up in my area? I see less deer as well and FAR less turkeys since they're arrival. I firmly believe the coyote problem must be dealt with if we want to see deer numbers as they were. Perhaps a bounty on them would relieve the burden on native species?
What do you think?


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## gumbygold

It has nothing to do with whether does are pregnant or not, it's just a decrease in the doe harvest to beef up numbers for the future.


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## TheKing

$diesel$ said:


> I'm sure all metioned above are reasons for the decline in numbers.
> Is it coincidence though, that roughly 10 years ago is when the coyotes showed up in my area? I see less deer as well and FAR less turkeys since they're arrival. I firmly believe the coyote problem must be dealt with if we want to see deer numbers as they were. Perhaps a bounty on them would relieve the burden on native species?
> What do you think?


Coyotes definitely have a big impact where they are populated. I read that they can take more than half of the fawns produced.


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## hailtothethief

Last few years ive been seeing coyote in my area. rarely see deer. Instead of packs of deer. Im seeing single deer tracks. Used to be a deer freeway in the woods you could sit on. Now there are just single deer tracks in the snow.


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## STRONGPERSUADER

$diesel$ said:


> I'm sure all metioned above are reasons for the decline in numbers.
> Is it coincidence though, that roughly 10 years ago is when the coyotes showed up in my area? I see less deer as well and FAR less turkeys since they're arrival. I firmly believe the coyote problem must be dealt with if we want to see deer numbers as they were. Perhaps a bounty on them would relieve the burden on native species?
> What do you think?


Seen quite a few of yotes along with a few turkey in the yard and neighborhood also. Crazy. I’m sure the huge number of deer, turkey, cats, and dogs brought the yotes into urban areas. Plus again, habitat has been steady declining and habitat doesn’t replenish. Lack of habitat = less public land to hunt. All these things that have been mentioned in this thread plays a part I’m sure. We could lobby for a metro parks bow lottery. They sharpshooters take very high doe numbers all the time. On our tax dime...


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## Fishstix

Bdawg, intriguing thought about moving ML earlier in the season.


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## garhtr

snag said:


> I bet next week there will be someone that didn’t read that new rule and shoot a doe on public


 Even worse, somebody that did read the rules will shoot a doe on public, probably leave it in woods.
I like the rule and I hope it helps deer populations on public land but I'm not sure this is enough, although it will have me hunting private over public during mz season, we'll see over time ---- I guess
What's the percentage of anterless deer actually taken on public after gun season ?? I doubt it is very high.
Good luck and Good hunting !


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## gumbygold

garhtr said:


> Even worse, somebody that did read the rules will shoot a doe on public, probably leave it in woods.
> I like the rule and I hope it helps deer populations on public land but I'm not sure this is enough, although it will have me hunting private over public during mz season, we'll see over time ---- I guess
> What's the percentage of anterless deer actually taken on public after gun season ?? I doubt it is very high.
> Good luck and Good hunting !


% of antlerless taken on public after the first gun week (total antlerless taken after gun divided by total antlerless taken all year, both on public):

2015: 21.57%
2016: 25.12%
2017: 24.63%


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## snag

floater99 said:


> I may be wrong but I thought I read there were also specific areas where you could still shoot a doe on public land ? I could not find any info to support that in the regs book going to make black powder season tougher for me oh well keep at it


 I found the list of lands that are buck only on the DNR website under the deer regulations, it covered all of Ohio public lands, and I saw only one place that I know of not listed .


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## garhtr

gumbygold said:


> % of antlerless taken on public after the first gun week (total antlerless taken after gun divided by total antlerless taken all year, both on public):
> 
> 2015: 21.57%
> 2016: 25.12%
> 2017: 24.63%


 Much higher than I expected !
Should do the trick.
Good luck and good hunting


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## gumbygold

If anyone has other questions about harvest data I have those three years of it and I have the ability to answer those types of questions.


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## snagless-1

Put a bounty on coyotes and watch what happens to the deer herd.


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## mmtchell

Here see if you see this data ,, when the state changed the rules on check stations to save a dollar and now everyone has to call in their harvest ,,, the numbers went down ,, I bet at least 25% of the harvest is not called in maybe more ,,, amish don't even use a phone ,,bad move by the state ,, I always looked forward to check my deer in at a check station ,, even when I didn't harvest a deer I would hang around one on Monday ( gun season ) to see what was taken ,, it was a exciting place to be ..and the stores and sporting goods shops loved the extra business .. there is not enough dnr officers to patrol that .. just my opinion ,, they bring the check stations back the numbers will go up ,,, bet on that ...nice to believe all sportsman are honest but its not the case ....


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## TheKing

mmtchell said:


> Here see if you see this data ,, when the state changed the rules on check stations to save a dollar and now everyone has to call in their harvest ,,, the numbers went down ,, I bet at least 25% of the harvest is not called in maybe more ,,, amish don't even use a phone ,,bad move by the state ,, I always looked forward to check my deer in at a check station ,, even when I didn't harvest a deer I would hang around one on Monday ( gun season ) to see what was taken ,, it was a exciting place to be ..and the stores and sporting goods shops loved the extra business .. there is not enough dnr officers to patrol that .. just my opinion ,, they bring the check stations back the numbers will go up ,,, bet on that ...nice to believe all sportsman are honest but its not the case ....


You are probably right on that. The increase in harvest limit is another thing that I think needs addressed. And deer drives - I don't think that can be thought of as hunting. It is like allowing sport fisherman to trawl on Lake Erie and our other lakes and rivers.


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## garhtr

bdawg said:


> If they are going to keep this rule, they should move the muzzleloader season to before gun season.


 That could defeat the purpose of the rule change, plus , a few years ago Dnr gave us an early mzl season in Oct, no one liked it.
If this doesn't work, IMO, go back to limited antlerless tags through a drawing system on public land.
Good luck and good hunting !


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## TheKing

bdawg said:


> I've hunted the same public land for almost 20 years now. I've seen half the number of deer the last 10 years that I saw the 1st 10 years. The number of hunters on the land during gun season has been about the same. Hearing less shots though. I think it's a combination of the liberal deer regs, increased coyote numbers, and increased popularity of bowhunting. Also, shot a diseased deer from there last year. Not sure what it had, but it's chest cavity stunk and it had a weird brownish color inside the rib cage. It was a deer that was shot in the heart/lungs and killed right away and gutted right away. Otherwise, it looked healthy. We didn't eat it.
> 
> If they are going to keep this rule, they should move the muzzleloader season to before gun season. My muzzleloader will end up sitting in the gun cabinet all year now unless I hunt private land.


A good early October muzzleloader would work me thinks. Two days would not hurt a thing. It's an easy doe or yearling in shooting hours.


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## $diesel$

I'm all for the Oct. muzzleloader hunt. I'm get'n old now and it's just too darn cold in Jan.
Haven't even shot my ml. in years.


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## snag

Mitchell, about the Amish not having phones to call in a deer kill, wrong they have phones . Most have them in the barn. Probaly the young one have cells I bet. Plus a lot of English take them to hunting spots and they have phones. Saw adds in the geauga trading times Amish group looking for a driver to take them hunting they’ll buy your tags , gas money and could hunt on the property they hunt.


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## crittergitter

mmtchell said:


> Here see if you see this data ,, when the state changed the rules on check stations to save a dollar and now everyone has to call in their harvest ,,, the numbers went down ,, I bet at least 25% of the harvest is not called in maybe more ,,, amish don't even use a phone ,,bad move by the state ,, I always looked forward to check my deer in at a check station ,, even when I didn't harvest a deer I would hang around one on Monday ( gun season ) to see what was taken ,, it was a exciting place to be ..and the stores and sporting goods shops loved the extra business .. there is not enough dnr officers to patrol that .. just my opinion ,, they bring the check stations back the numbers will go up ,,, bet on that ...nice to believe all sportsman are honest but its not the case ....


I believe they still have some actual check stations, just not as many.


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## mmtchell

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE AMISH ARE POACHERS,,,I'm just saying when you dont have to go to a check station to check in a deer ,,,most aint getting called in ,,,and yeah some amish might have a phone not all, and look at the deer herd after the dnr made the change ,,,it stinks ,, ,,, you should bring your deer to a check station period. .they changed it so they dont have to spend a dime on the metal band they used to put on the antlers of a buck or thew the ear of a doe ,,,I know times change and some ideas are great but I' dont think this one is ,,,and almost all of the hunters that I talked to about this issue agree. ..its a no brainer ...


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## Muddy

Many Amish people have cell phones. Apparently having a land line connection at their house is forbidden, but having a cell phone is OK. Just like electricity. Having electric lines to their home is forbidden, but using a generator is perfectly ok. They can phone in a deer no problem with a cell phone if they choose to.


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## mmtchell

Yeah we hunters can call in a harvest too but alot dont ....thats my point


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## Rainbow Record

mmtchell said:


> I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE AMISH ARE POACHERS,,,I'm just saying when you dont have to go to a check station to check in a deer ,,,most aint getting called in ,,,and yeah some amish might have a phone not all, and look at the deer herd after the dnr made the change ,,,it stinks ,, ,,, you should bring your deer to a check station period. .they changed it so they dont have to spend a dime on the metal band they used to put on the antlers of a buck or thew the ear of a doe ,,,I know times change and some ideas are great but I' dont think this one is ,,,and almost all of the hunters that I talked to about this issue agree. ..its a no brainer ...


Think about what your saying that if I have to drive to check my deer I’m more likely to do that. Once the deer is in the truck (buggy) van etc. it’s not likely to be checked by a game warden so if your going to bootleg it home and break the law then it’s going to happen. I have deer hunted for 38 years and have NEVER been stopped in the truck and checked. Both ways are easily violated but it’s up to the sportsman to be ethical and honest and check the animal. Its no different than the guys taking over their limit of fish on Erie and they caught a decent amount of them but there will always be law breakers with not enough law enforcement to keep up just saying either way could easily be violated.


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## 9Left

I guess I’ll be the naysayer… Completely disagree with the rules change this year...I hunt public and have for 20 years… I shoot a doe every single year during gun season, and I have no trouble seeing deer all week long every day And I am absolutely not trying to toot my own horn about how good I am… I’m an average Hunter...I hunt Egypt Valley, Jockey Hollow, salt fork, deer Creek, and Wayne national, I don’t understand why there are a bunch of guys crying about not seeing deer on public land… Personally, I think the problem is that they don’t want to walk more than 300 yards from the car .


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## mmtchell

What is funny is I've talked to more than a few hunters about this change and they did not even know ,,,, is ohio power on the list( AEP ?


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## TheKing

mmtchell said:


> What is funny is I've talked to more than a few hunters about this change and they did not even know ,,,, is ohio power on the list( AEP ?


Here is the article from the latest Wild Ohio Magazine...


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## Shad Rap

mmtchell said:


> Yeah we hunters can call in a harvest too but alot dont ....thats my point


How do you know this??..are these so called hunters your friends??..and if they are then you shouldn't be associating with them...it doesn't change a thing now that you call the deer in...a poacher was always a poacher...if you think they weren't then you're naive...does the new check system account for every single deer killed?..absolutely not...and it never did before the new system either...the same people who aren't calling the deer in now are the same people who never took the deer to a check station before the new system...not taking the deer to be checked in is just as easy as not picking up the phone...


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## Big Mo

Does anyone know which public lands are open to doe for MZ season? I hunt Tranquility, didn’t see a deer in 2 full days. Interestingly, did have a pack of 8 wild Ferrell dogs come through. They were hunting like a pack of coyotes. I can’t shoot a dog, but think they had an affect on what we didn’t see. Shots were way down this year, but weather and rain probably had most to do with that issue in SW Ohio.


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## bare naked

Big Mo said:


> Does anyone know which public lands are open to doe for MZ season? I hunt Tranquility, didn’t see a deer in 2 full days. Interestingly, did have a pack of 8 wild Ferrell dogs come through. They were hunting like a pack of coyotes. I can’t shoot a dog, but think they had an affect on what we didn’t see. Shots were way down this year, but weather and rain probably had most to do with that issue in SW Ohio.


None that the DNR control.


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## snag

mmtchell said:


> What is funny is I've talked to more than a few hunters about this change and they did not even know ,,,, is ohio power on the list( AEP ?


I just looked at the list of areas and four AEP lands are buck only, and Egypt valley, tranquility area also. Basically all public lands are on the list for buck only for the rest of all seasons. I found the list on Wild Ohio . Gov DNR then go to season in red highlight.


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## snag

Side note - it’s found at wildlife.ohiodnr. Gov
Look under 2018-2019 changes in red lettering It lists all public hunting areas in Ohio that are now buck only for rest of this season. Practically all of Ohio public lands.


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## TheKing

snag said:


> Side note - it’s found at wildlife.ohiodnr. Gov
> Look under 2018-2019 changes in red lettering It lists all public hunting areas in Ohio that are now buck only for rest of this season. Practically all of Ohio public lands.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't see off this main page snag.


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## pkent

TheKing said:


> I wish that rule would go statewide.


Yep


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## bobk

bdawg said:


> I've hunted the same public land for almost 20 years now. I've seen half the number of deer the last 10 years that I saw the 1st 10 years. The number of hunters on the land during gun season has been about the same. Hearing less shots though. I think it's a combination of the liberal deer regs, increased coyote numbers, and increased popularity of bowhunting. Also, shot a diseased deer from there last year. Not sure what it had, but it's chest cavity stunk and it had a weird brownish color inside the rib cage. It was a deer that was shot in the heart/lungs and killed right away and gutted right away. Otherwise, it looked healthy. We didn't eat it.
> 
> If they are going to keep this rule, they should move the muzzleloader season to before gun season. My muzzleloader will end up sitting in the gun cabinet all year now unless I hunt private land.


They had the early muzzloader season for 2 years in October and the outcry of hate ended it pretty quick. I actually liked it.


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## gumbygold

Shad Rap said:


> How do you know this??..are these so called hunters your friends??..and if they are then you shouldn't be associating with them...it doesn't change a thing now that you call the deer in...a poacher was always a poacher...if you think they weren't then you're naive...does the new check system account for every single deer killed?..absolutely not...and it never did before the new system either...the same people who aren't calling the deer in now are the same people who never took the deer to a check station before the new system...not taking the deer to be checked in is just as easy as not picking up the phone...


I have to agree. Poachers are going to poach regardless of check method. I don't see how the new system stops a guy from shooting a deer and hauling it back to his barn to butcher unbeknownst to anyone. If the check method is to bring it to a check station, guess what? He's still going to haul it back to his barn and butcher it unbeknownst to anyone.


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## Shad Rap

bobk said:


> They had the early muzzloader season for 2 years in October and the outcry of hate ended it pretty quick. I actually liked it.


Yep, everyone fussed about it...I liked it too.


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## snag

TheKing said:


> I don't see off this main page snag.


Sorry I don’t know how to put a link to that page. But it’s there under new deer regulations in red lettering, try a search on it.


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## 9Left

gumbygold said:


> I have to agree. Poachers are going to poach regardless of check method. I don't see how the new system stops a guy from shooting a deer and hauling it back to his barn to butcher unbeknownst to anyone. If the check method is to bring it to a check station, guess what? He's still going to haul it back to his barn and butcher it unbeknownst to anyone.


 The new phone system was not meant to curb poaching… It was put into place so the state does not have to pay for the For 100,000+ metal tags to be made...And the paperwork that went with them..and the delivery of all that stuff to the gas stations and check stations around the state.


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## Muddy

I really like the new check in system. It makes life much easier, and gives you more options on handling the meat. I can now call my deer in and get right to hanging and skinning. Kill a deer late in the evening in the old days and you had to wait until the next day when the check stationed opened to tag it. That sucked in the early season. You can now check a deer in and butcher it at the kill site also. Poachers are going to poach, it doesn’t matter to them how the check in process works.


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## Harry1959

I used to love the old Buck only October muzzle loader season(it was called “primitive weapon season”) It was at Shawnee, salt fork and another public area. Back then in lines were just started to be popular and we all hunted with side hammers, either percussion caps or flintlocks. I had no interest when they changed it to doe only.


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## Buzzking

$diesel$ said:


> I'm sure all metioned above are reasons for the decline in numbers.
> Is it coincidence though, that roughly 10 years ago is when the coyotes showed up in my area? I see less deer as well and FAR less turkeys since they're arrival. I firmly believe the coyote problem must be dealt with if we want to see deer numbers as they were. Perhaps a bounty on them would relieve the burden on native species?
> What do you think?


Agreed! Take them all out. Those coyotes are eating everything-deer, dogs, cats, etc. They are too prolific and as hunting is a tool to control wildlife population-coyotes are wildlife and they too need controlled. I was told bitch coyotes throw two litters a year! That's a lot of hungry mouths to feed.


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## hunt-n-fish

Boy, this thread sure got hi-jacked.


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## Beepum19

Easy to print multiple tags at home and use them multiple times for transport. Then to the garage or barn. And to the freezer. Good thing you printed out 5 of the same tags. It’s a lot of things. Private property that don’t allow hunting or private property that don’t drive deer. Guys manage to keep and hold deer now. So chances are your not gonna see much on your 40 when Jim has 350 built for deer. Food cover etc etc. where I’m from guys who drive only get a few good pushes then the deer are off to the nehbhors. Proofs in the trail cameras. We always get new deer after gun week or during. Guys are only shooting big bucks on these leased or big private spots. They don’t care about doe. I can think of about 5 blocks where I’m from that are private and they only shoot big bucks. Add corn and crap weather and it’s tuff. And you can’t hunt coyotes bc everyone is scared you’ll chase there bucks off.


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## Beepum19

I see pleanty of deer and deer sign on public. They just get educated easy and often seek private. Think about it the weekend before gun season and sometimes one day before a caravan of hunters from New Jersey and pa show-up to power scout. How efficient is that? I think numbers are where they need to be just to many silly hunters trying to mimic the outdoor channel and don’t succeed. Then cry about it. The guys who do well on public don’t tell everyone and lie about where they shoot them. That’s how you keep a good spot. Oh and put decent scouting time in


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## 9Left

Beepum19 said:


> I see pleanty of deer and deer sign on public. They just get educated easy and often seek private. Think about it the weekend before gun season and sometimes one day before a caravan of hunters from New Jersey and pa show-up to power scout. How efficient is that? I think numbers are where they need to be just to many silly hunters trying to mimic the outdoor channel and don’t succeed. Then cry about it. The guys who do well on public don’t tell everyone and lie about where they shoot them. That’s how you keep a good spot. Oh and put decent scouting time in


Ha!!! I may be known for lying about my fishing spot… But as far as hunting goes… I will never lie about where i shot a deer...I hunt big public lands… Like Wayne national and Egypt Valley...And as soon as I tell them that it’s an hour hike just to get to the spot where there is absolutely no access, they stop listening... lol. 

There are plenty of very good hunting spots… But they are in the thick bottoms, and valleys,requiring steep hill climbs, it’s hard to hunt that type of area because you have to put in the time for scouting in August and September. And you have to be willing to drag the deer back also .

You have to get back in there, away from everybody, especially the suspenders wearing Bearded groups..


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## Harry1959

9left other than being willing, you also have to be young and healthy enough to get the deer out. Us hunters are an aging population.


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## RB57

Having already tagged a buck during bow season I will not be able to hunt with Muzzleloader. That's a tough one. Have not sat one out ever. We to are seeing far less deer and deer sign on the public land the we hunt. Hopefully this will turn around soon. We have gotten a group of my Son's buddies into deer hunting and it has been tough for some of them to see any deer.


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## 9Left

RB57 said:


> Having already tagged a buck during bow season I will not be able to hunt with Muzzleloader. That's a tough one. Have not sat one out ever. We to are seeing far less deer and deer sign on the public land the we hunt. Hopefully this will turn around soon. We have gotten a group of my Son's buddies into deer hunting and it has been tough for some of them to see any deer.


You can still kill a doe on private during muzzleloader


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## fastwater

...and this coming weekend on private land.


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## floater99

Harry1959 said:


> I used to love the old Buck only October muzzle loader season(it was called “primitive weapon season”) It was at Shawnee, salt fork and another public area. Back then in lines were just started to be popular and we all hunted with side hammers, either percussion caps or flintlocks. I had no interest when they changed it to doe only.


The other area was Wildcat Hollow I always looked forward to that season we bought property inside wildcat hollow area years ago The ODNR said there was to much pressure put on those areas and was part of reason to eliminate that season


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## threeten

With the new check system. A warden can find out if you have a license, deer tag and when/ where you bought it just by calling your plate in the parking lot. They can see if or how many deer you’ve checked in and what tag you used. WHILE HES CHECKING YOU. there are some advantages to the new system as in instantly having that info on hand. I like the no does after gun on public land too. Guys would drive areas by my in waves during the bonus and ML seasons. It has taken a toll on numbers on those lands


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## J2jm

It’s a change but I think the buck only on public land after gun season will be a good thing along with the reduced bag limits. The state and insurance companies decimated the herd over the years. The state realized hunters aren’t going to buy licenses and tags if they aren’t harvesting or seeing deer, and the state wants your $.
Even with the changes public hunters have 3 months of bow season and 1 week of gun season. There is a lot of opportunity there to harvest a deer.
Although I would of liked to seen the muzzleloader season retooled to at least give public hunters the opportunity to harvest either sex even if it was only one day.


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## Zach216913

Kinda sucks for the people who haven't got deer yet due to whatever reasons now seasons comming to and end muzzleloader was always last chance to put meat on the table for me and now only being able to shoot a buck kinda blows. I also think people now they can call a deer in to be tagged, which I do not agree on, they'll still poach deer and some will shoot does still. Unfortunently I've found out that's just how some people are don't respect the rules. But also for anyone that's actually following the rules I feel like if it comes down to end of season and they havnt harvested any deer yet.. I feel with new regs it's going to start encourageing shooting of smaller bucks .big it comes down to not haven't any meat for the season or shooting a small basket buck or whatever I know I would pick haveing meat. I pass up on small bucks all season when I'm out but this reg change has me shooting anything that's legal at the end of season. Hopefully it changes back next year.. why couldn't they just lower the deer limit to down to 3 or 4 deer a year instead of 6 and. Go back to normal regs. Just my opinion.


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## snag

Zach, a article I recently read about the buck only on public land after gun season is going to be in effect until further notice. They probaly want to see if there will b a increase at all of deer. But now I think during gun season and archery guys might go with if it’s brown it’s down therory. Cause after gun ,buck only season starts. On public land.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## crappiedude

It's funny how we've changed as hunters. Back in the day when I started hunting I believe it was bucks only all season. I can't remember but that may have included bow season as well. Then they started allowing does to be harvested if you had a doe permit. I read somewhere that they had to issue 26 doe permits in order to get 1 doe killed because most of the guys applying for permits wouldn't kill a doe because they wanted the herd to increase. Then it was kill them all and we did. Now we go back to buck only for the last 2 months of the season on public land.
Some how it has to work out that you can't kill all the does and still have the herd increase, it doesn't work that way.


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## hunt-n-fish

snag said:


> Zach, a article I recently read about the buck only on public land after gun season is going to be in effect until further notice. They probaly want to see if there will b a increase at all of deer. But now I think during gun season and archery guys might go with if it’s brown it’s down therory. Cause after gun ,buck only season starts. On public land.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



People want the easy deer back, that'll won't likely happen. Hunters will have to hunt and walk more, scout more and use climbers to be more mobile, if you want to even have a chance to see deer. Deer patterns have changed due to increased pressure. Granted the numbers aren't as high as they were in the 90's, but there's still plenty of deer on most public land. I won't hunt close to the road due to increased hunter pressure. This morning I saw 4 bucks and 2 does, this evening 10 does at Mohican state forest. I was 3/4 mile from the road.

I would rather see 1 deer limit, either sex, on public land. It's not fair to those who enjoy cold weather late season hunting. If all you have is public (like alot of folks), then your done hunting after the first segment of gun for the year.


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## crappiedude

hunt-n-fish said:


> If all you have is public (like alot of folks), then your done hunting after the first segment of gun for the year.


You can still hunt bucks


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## hunt-n-fish

crappiedude said:


> You can still hunt bucks


That's true I know that, this is what i'm attempting to do. I'll likely shoot the first of any size buck because of the new rule. Horns are dropping already, so a once horned buck is now a shed antlerless meaning all bucks aren't legal. If a buck was killed earlier, then your done.


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## mikem

I had a nature preserve lotto for the first half of the season - doe only. Passed on bucks but couldn't get a clear arrow shot at a doe. Now it's late season and I can't shoot a doe on public. The last 5 deer I've seen on public have been does! 

I understand the point of the regulation change, but this time of year anybody who hasn't punched a tag is probably like me - desperate or done! I would agree with hunt-n-fish a couple posts up - One deer per year on public land would do the same thing. Or in the multi-deer counties, make it one DOE only on public per year. Give us some better options!


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## halfrack

crappiedude said:


> It's funny how we've changed as hunters. Back in the day when I started hunting I believe it was bucks only all season. I can't remember but that may have included bow season as well. Then they started allowing does to be harvested if you had a doe permit. I read somewhere that they had to issue 26 doe permits in order to get 1 doe killed because most of the guys applying for permits wouldn't kill a doe because they wanted the herd to increase. Then it was kill them all and we did. Now we go back to buck only for the last 2 months of the season on public land.
> Some how it has to work out that you can't kill all the does and still have the herd increase, it doesn't work that way.


 Yes you are correct it was buck yes and included bow season . That is when you didn't see many deer it was hard hunting. I would like them to go back to that or just one buck and one doe. They should make the same rule for private land also. But i will also state I hunt private only. Then back then you couldnt use cross bows if i remember right. Yes times have change and I see less deer then before since EHD killed alot of the deer and the liberal bag limits...


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## garhtr

Where do we go from here ? Will this be the rule long term ? 5 years ? I hope it will at least change to one doe on public per year(no date restrictions, so you can doe hunt during Mzzld season) . Maybe back to a drawing for doe tags via county or deer zone ??
Any ideas ?
Good luck and Good hunting !


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## 9Left

I agree Garhtr....Just change it to one or two does on public lands throughout the entire season. I do not disagree that having a restriction on does will help improve things...but not being able to shoot a doe in muzzleloader really sucked this year...


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## fastwater

garhtr said:


> Where do we go from here ? Will this be the rule long term ? 5 years ? I hope it will at least change to one doe on public per year(no date restrictions, so you can doe hunt during Mzzld season) . Maybe back to a drawing for doe tags via county or deer zone ??
> Any ideas ?
> Good luck and Good hunting !


Talking with our county GW just before ml season, he seems to think things will stay exactly the same as they were this year throughout next year. Then an assessment done on our deer herd to see what further changes, if any, need to be made in the future.


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## UNCLEMIKE

There is a pod cast out there with an interview with Mr. Tonkovich from the DOW, I would share the link but I am not computer savvy. He states this will be place for three seasons for starters. The kill was down 44% for public land does and 19% for public land bucks this season. In my opinion this change was made years too late. Should have been in place for awhile now. Hope it has the intended result. You just can't keep killing all the does and expect to maintain decent levels on Ohio's limited public lands.


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## Redheads

UNCLEMIKE said:


> There is a pod cast out there with an interview with Mr. Tonkovich from the DOW, I would share the link but I am not computer savvy. He states this will be place for three seasons for starters. The kill was down 44% for public land does and 19% for public land bucks this season. In my opinion this change was made years too late. Should have been in place for awhile now. Hope it has the intended result. You just can't keep killing all the does and expect to maintain decent levels on Ohio's limited public lands.


I agree with the timing.

In the past my opinion the division has always been reactive versus proactive. They should not have allowed this to happen for its license holders...... period.The same people who spend the money to help the cause are the same people being penalized and then they wounder why licences sales are down.
If they dont do something soon, their will be other game that will face the same restrictions.


just my .000002 cents


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## TheKing

UNCLEMIKE said:


> There is a pod cast out there with an interview with Mr. Tonkovich from the DOW, I would share the link but I am not computer savvy. He states this will be place for three seasons for starters. The kill was down 44% for public land does and 19% for public land bucks this season. In my opinion this change was made years too late. Should have been in place for awhile now. Hope it has the intended result. You just can't keep killing all the does and expect to maintain decent levels on Ohio's limited public lands.


 Yep I agree 100%. I reported the problem to District 5 6 years ago and the wildlife officer told me that was what he was hearing all over. Not many does at all. And this was private land with no public land or state parks within 40 miles.


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## crappiedude

UNCLEMIKE said:


> In my opinion this change was made years too late.


I agree with that. There certainly was a lot of complaining from the guys hunting public and more than likely it was justified in slowing the harvest for a few years in order to let the herds rebound. Hopefully with the reduced harvest and the crappy weather we had during gun season (which kept a lot of hunters home) it will happen sooner than later.
Hopefully when the herd rebounds and conditions warrant it again they will allow hunters 1 buck & 1 does regardless of season or method.


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## G-Patt

garhtr said:


> Where do we go from here ? Will this be the rule long term ? 5 years ? I hope it will at least change to one doe on public per year(no date restrictions, so you can doe hunt during Mzzld season) . Maybe back to a drawing for doe tags via county or deer zone ??
> Any ideas ?
> Good luck and Good hunting !


I'd be okay with 2 deer on public only; either 2 does; or one doe, one buck. I guess when they lift the restrictions and use a less liberal bag limit, we'd be thankful for the restrictions. At least I hope that's the case. Till then, we can fill the freezer up on more small game.


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## pawcat

I live in Jackson county...there are more deer here then in years past and next year is looking awesome.


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## 9Left

pawcat said:


> I live in Jackson county...there are more deer here then in years past and next year is looking awesome.


Exactly pawcat! I hunt in Jackson/ Vinton County as well.....I hunted the Broken Arrow area this year for a couple days and I saw tons of does


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## garhtr

Saw pretty good numbers of does in Ross county on the public I hunted but that was before 1st gun.
I can live with the one anterless deer a year but I hate the Buck only Mzzldr season-- why not just 1 antlerless per entire season on public ?
We'll see if there's a change soon (I hope)
I haven't looked but don't the changes or at least the proposed changes for the upcoming season come out about this time ??
Good luck and good hunting !


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## crappiedude

garhtr said:


> I haven't looked but don't the changes or at least the proposed changes for the upcoming season come out about this time ??


http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/pdfs/stay informed/CSI/RULE PROPOSALS SUMMARY 2019 Winter Spring.pdf

This it?


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## garhtr

crappiedude said:


> This it?


 Looks too be, didn't see anything I was hoping too see.
Not many changes in general.
Good luck and good hunting !


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## crappiedude

I didn't see anything either. I'll be curious to see what they do next year especially since the kill was down so much this year.


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## one3

TheKing said:


> Finally had a chance to read the new Wild Ohio 2019 Calendar edition this morning. I noticed for the first time that new rules for antlerless deer are in effect this year concerning public land. The new rule is that no antlerless deer may be taken on public land between December 3rd and the end of the deer season, February 3rd. I was surprised - I did not know that.


The only thing I want to say about that is, Every one pays the same price for there license. It seems as though the state is, restrictiong or penalizing those that hunt public land. private land hunters, do what you want, state land or public land hunters give me your money, but I am going to restrict what you can do. Every thing should be state wide. Is the state trying to divide us up? However, just because you can take more than one or many, does not mean you should. I, have always taken one deer and will always take one deer.


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## UNCLEMIKE

one3 said:


> The only thing I want to say about that is, Every one pays the same price for there license. It seems as though the state is, restrictiong or penalizing those that hunt public land. private land hunters, do what you want, state land or public land hunters give me your money, but I am going to restrict what you can do. Every thing should be state wide. Is the state trying to divide us up? However, just because you can take more than one or many, does not mean you should. I, have always taken one deer and will always take one deer.


Any one can hunt private land. No one forces one to hunt public land. Our option is to buy some or get permission as many do, or hunt public... but recognize it is different than private land. With our liberal tags (which were needed on private lands to control populations) the public lands were being way over harvested. Many have watched the decline first hand over the past five or more years and complained about it to the DOW. The choice is live with some limits or treat it the same as private and live with the result we have....very very few deer in many places. I for one welcome these regulations. If I had my way they would make it buck only on public lands for the next few years!


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## one3

UNCLEMIKE said:


> Any one can hunt private land. No one forces one to hunt public land. Our option is to buy some or get permission as many do, or hunt public... but recognize it is different than private land. With our liberal tags (which were needed on private lands to control populations) the public lands were being way over harvested. Many have watched the decline first hand over the past five or more years and complained about it to the DOW. The choice is live with some limits or treat it the same as private and live with the result we have....very very few deer in many places. I for one welcome these regulations. If I had my way they would make it buck only on public lands for the next few years!


I, remember the days of buck only. State wide, for years. I, have yet to see a deer with a map, deer do not know state land from public land. No, not every one can hunt private land, and some may not want to, for what ever reason. Aruge over this all you want, problem is we should be uniteing, over this, and we are not. Yes the state and the hunters saw the decline, and there still is a decline. STOP take more than one deer per year for a few years. Some one said the state listened to the hunters, how by restricting public land?


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## squid_1

Can't they isolate the public areas with low numbers and single them out? Maybe put restrictions on deer drives on public areas? I have seen some pretty big groups of a particular hunting base fan out and cover some serious public hunting areas killing indiscriminately. I am fortunate enough to hunt private that borders a public area and I haven't seen any decrease in numbers. Maybe trap some of the overpopulated urban areas and relocate instead of hiring sharp shooters. Then again they should also restrict the handing out of nuisance permits to farmers that border public areas as well. Like one3 said " haven't seen a deer with a map".


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## UNCLEMIKE

Deer may not use maps nor honor property lines but most hunters do. This results in more pressure on the public lands than your average private land. Does tend to have a fairly small home range. Kill the does and that area has less and less deer. Anyone doubting the fact that the public land herds have been hit hard needs to walk a few miles on any of the following and then let us know what they found. Try the AEP lands, the Wayne National Forest Athens unit, Salt Fork State Park, Egypt Valley wildlife area, Jockey Hollow wildlife area. These are the larger ones I am familiar with. For smaller areas try Berlin Lake wildlife area, Beaver Creek state park and state forest, Harrison State forest, West Branch state park. I recently walked several of these areas and was amazed at the lack of sign in areas that were much different a few years back.


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## squid_1

UNCLEMIKE said:


> Deer may not use maps nor honor property lines but most hunters do. This results in more pressure on the public lands than your average private land. Does tend to have a fairly small home range. Kill the does and that area has less and less deer. Anyone doubting the fact that the public land herds have been hit hard needs to walk a few miles on any of the following and then let us know what they found. Try the AEP lands, the Wayne National Forest Athens unit, Salt Fork State Park, Egypt Valley wildlife area, Jockey Hollow wildlife area. These are the larger ones I am familiar with. For smaller areas try Berlin Lake wildlife area, Beaver Creek state park and state forest, Harrison State forest, West Branch state park. I recently walked several of these areas and was amazed at the lack of sign in areas that were much different a few years back.



AEP is all around where I hunt. Most of the deer come off AEP and I haven't seen a decrease. I'm not saying that some places aren't lacking but to paint with such a broad brush seems to be excessive.


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## one3

Every one has some thing to say. every one has a opnion. Haven't heard any one say, I will only take one deer for the next few years. Remember only you can INCREASE the deer hearde.


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## garhtr

squid_1 said:


> Can't they isolate the public areas with low numbers and single them out?


I think it could Eventually come down to that but it will likely be by county or zone. The first years of antlerless hunting were done by county( I think)
Good luck and good hunting !


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## crappiedude

I think the state has taken a necessary but unpopular direction to address the problem of overharvest on public lands. Unfortunately all land (public, private and urban) was managed the same for years and it destroyed a lot of herds on public grounds.
Every year there would be a thread on here from guys complaining about the state allowing the herds to be destroyed on public land and the state has to start managing the herds differently in the different environments. I'm sure the complaints were made to the DNR as well and they listened. (as they should have)
To the guys who hunt public land now is the time to go out and look for private land to gain access to. Hunting private land comes with it's challenges too. It takes a lot of work & time if ya do it right to gain and maintain access to private land. We spent 3 years pounding on doors before we gained access and we spent quite a few weekends working there to build up a lasting relationship.
Also just because the land is private doesn't mean its going to have good hunting. It may take gaining access to 10 or 15 places until you find a place that suits your needs. Some private land is way over pressured too. If you're going to sit around and wait until next September to start knocking on doors you're too late.


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## G-Patt

one3 said:


> The only thing I want to say about that is, Every one pays the same price for there license. It seems as though the state is, restrictiong or penalizing those that hunt public land. private land hunters, do what you want, state land or public land hunters give me your money, but I am going to restrict what you can do. Every thing should be state wide. Is the state trying to divide us up? However, just because you can take more than one or many, does not mean you should. I, have always taken one deer and will always take one deer.


X2. I feel the same way. Not all of us have access to private land. I certainly don't. The deer is in the public trust (even those on private lands), and if we're going to increase the herds of deer that travel on both public and private lands, these new restrictions need to apply to all Ohio deer hunters equally. These restrictions are BS when they only apply to one group of hunters over the others.


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## G-Patt

crappiedude said:


> I think the state has taken a necessary but unpopular direction to address the problem of overharvest on public lands. Unfortunately all land (public, private and urban) was managed the same for years and it destroyed a lot of herds on public grounds.
> Every year there would be a thread on here from guys complaining about the state allowing the herds to be destroyed on public land and the state has to start managing the herds differently in the different environments. I'm sure the complaints were made to the DNR as well and they listened. (as they should have)
> To the guys who hunt public land now is the time to go out and look for private land to gain access to. Hunting private land comes with it's challenges too. It takes a lot of work & time if ya do it right to gain and maintain access to private land. We spent 3 years pounding on doors before we gained access and we spent quite a few weekends working there to build up a lasting relationship.
> Also just because the land is private doesn't mean its going to have good hunting. It may take gaining access to 10 or 15 places until you find a place that suits your needs. Some private land is way over pressured too. If you're going to sit around and wait until next September to start knocking on doors you're too late.


I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, Crappiedude. I think most everyone can agree that restrictions are necessary, but it's in the way they are being applied is the problem. I'm personally fine with the one-doe restriction if the state thinks that's necessary, but don't apply that one-doe restriction to one group of hunters, which are the public land hunters. Like someone said earlier, deer have no maps showing which lands are private and public. They travel and use both types. Makes no sense to limiting the harvest from one land and not the other. 

I personally have no interest in hunting private lands. I don't want to deal with asking permission and schmoozing people I don't know. I'm a public land owner who wants to come and go without anyone's permission, nor have to fork out large sums for a lease. What I ask is simple: apply the restrictions for all license-paying hunters fairly. Otherwise, single out only those public lands and surrounding private with the known issues and manage the herd accordingly. Another option is reducing county and state-wide limits, or creating township-specific limits/restrictions to target the public and private herds that are decimated.


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## crappiedude

G-Patt said:


> Not all of us have access to private land. I certainly don't.


A lot of people who hunt private land don't own it. I hunted mostly private land and I didn't own any of it. I worked my tail off looking for places to hunt and then I worked my tail off to keep it. Rarely is anyone going to call you out of the clear blue and ask you to kill his deer. It took a lot of fortitude to keep knocking on doors before I found what I was looking for. One day I got lucky.
I understand why people give up looking for access, it's tough out there but the access is out there. It's up to you to find it and figure out how to get it.


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## crappiedude

The difference is the amount of pressure is more controlled on the private vs public lands. The complaints of the low deer numbers are coming from the guys hunting public and thus the different rules.


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## bobk

one3 said:


> Every one has some thing to say. every one has a opnion. Haven't heard any one say, I will only take one deer for the next few years. Remember only you can INCREASE the deer hearde.


I’ve made the point of one deer per season for years. It’s a personal choice that many aren’t willing to make. It’s easier to continue to complain about the herd while still shooting as many deer as possible. 

“Tagged out” can’t stand that phrase.


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## fastwater

With the exception of the 2017/18 season in which I took two deer and probably 3-4 years many years ago in which I've taken two, I've taken one Deer a year for the last 45yrs.
Considering traveling from county to county getting the maximum bag limit per year or feeling pressured to kill more deer has just never even entered my mind. Just never saw the need to kill anymore than I did. Actually, the actual act of killing the deer has never been a pleasant time for me. But I am always Thankful for the gift and have never taken it for granted. 
And up until three years ago, though I bought my tags every year, never hunted off my own property in the last 17 years. Just bought my tags trying to continue to do my part to contribute back to the never ending broke ODNR. 
I'm sure we have all run into the type that have the attitude of carrying around killing as many deer a year as some kind of badge of honor...and even brag on killing several deer a year. To me, I never could stand that mentality and never loafed long with someone having that mentality.


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## crappiedude

My friend and myself killed 3 deer off the 2 farms we hunted for probably 25 years straight. If anyone joined us during deer season we still never killed over 3 deer. Most years we tried to take 2 bucks with bow and save 1 tag for ML season. If either one of us shot a doe, the season was over unless we had a buck tag. You can't over shoot the does and get the herd to recover each year.
Hopefully the herd rebounds enough in the next few years and does will again be legal for the entire season.


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## Muddy

There is no way to set a limit that works everywhere. Some areas hold more deer than other areas.


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## fastwater

crappiedude said:


> My friend and myself killed 3 deer off the 2 farms we hunted for probably 25 years straight. If anyone joined us during deer season we still never killed over 3 deer. Most years we tried to take 2 bucks with bow and save 1 tag for ML season. If either one of us shot a doe, the season was over unless we had a buck tag. You can't over shoot the does and get the herd to recover each year.
> Hopefully the herd rebounds enough in the next few years and does will again be legal for the entire season.


Hmmm...maybe I should have killed two this year.
Just got back from town were all the deer are at around here being tied up all morning with wife hitting buck with her car. He was still carrying. Now he is just carrying his left side. Right side was stuck in the left front plastic bumper cover.


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## bobk

Slacker


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## fastwater

bobk said:


> Slacker


I know...and though it did a number on the car, the only thing we got out of the deal was his right antler. Had they found the deer, yours truly would be eating fresh tenderloin tonight.


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## garhtr

Muddy said:


> There is no way to set a limit that works everywhere. Some areas hold more deer than other areas.


 Agreed, it should be done by county. With today's technology it would be simple to set a quota for each county (on public only ?) You check the website each morning before hunting to check the quota numbers, as soon as the quota is reached no more does or even no more deer harvested that season in that county, easy and effective. Ky does this with bear and sandhill cranes, ect, once the "perfect" number is reached season closes...
The hard part about regulations is "selling" them to hunters, you can't risk angering your fan base especially with hunter numbers dropping.


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## miked913

garhtr said:


> Agreed, it should be done by county. With today's technology it would be simple to set a quota for each county (on public only ?) You check the website each morning before hunting to check the quota numbers, as soon as the quota is reached no more does or even no more deer harvested that season in that county, easy and effective. Ky does this with bear and sandhill cranes, ect, once the "perfect" number is reached season closes...
> The hard part about regulations is "selling" them to hunters, you can't risk angering your fan base especially with hunter numbers dropping.


It would be a hard sell to our camp, you have to drive to town to make a cellphone call forget about using your phone to check a website. It's 15 miles or so to decent phone service. I call home every few days like the old days of going to the pay phone.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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## TheKing

miked913 said:


> It would be a hard sell to our camp, you have to drive to town to make a cellphone call forget about using your phone to check a website. It's 15 miles or so to decent phone service. I call home every few days like the old days of going to the pay phone.
> 
> Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


It would sure make us get out there more often.


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## garhtr

miked913 said:


> It would be a hard sell to our camp,


 I highly doubt Ohio would ever implement this as a rule,(even if it worked) hunters wouldn't like it.
Are you hunting public land ?
I'd have to drive a mile or so from our cabin for phone service if I wanted to hunt the adjacent public and as I stated in my post the hard thing about rule changes is "selling' it to hunters-- but if it was the law what would you do---- drive a Few miles down the road--- check the quota then go hunting, Inconvenient, yes, doable, probably. It works in other states and is probably the surest and most accurate way to manage game, what we're doing now doesn't seem to be working.
Time will tell on the one deer on public per season---- but it seems some public area's contain good numbers and other area's are lacking.
Hopefully they have the fix--- but I'm sceptical.
Good luck and good hunting !


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## miked913

I am hunting private but it's butts up to one of the biggest pieces of public in SE Ohio. Last fall was my 15th year there and have gotten 13 bucks ranging from upper 120's to upper 160's all during Archery and the couple years without a buck were at the beginning one of those year I was infatuated with a WV buck that I eventually killed that was mid 130's. Deer hunting for me is a 12 month endeavor, I know who died who made it, I run a ton of cameras, I walk way more than most fat guys scouting and looking for sheds and scouting, stand work etc. My deer sighting have dropped by almost 1/2 but I still see 2.8 deer per sit. Sure it takes luck about 3% of it is luck the other 97% is hard work, sweat and homework all done when the other guy is home when it's too cold in January and too hot in July and every month in between.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


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## floater99

miked913 said:


> It would be a hard sell to our camp, you have to drive to town to make a cellphone call forget about using your phone to check a website. It's 15 miles or so to decent phone service. I call home every few days like the old days of going to the pay phone.Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk


We just started getting better cell srvc closer to camp last cpl yrs going to town was also pizza nite or beer run or a deer check in no tapa phones or cells yet and we managed somehow


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