# Rifle Calibers for deer gun



## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

So I know that they opened it up to rifle rounds of straight walled only, whats the thought of them opening it up to other rounds as well? .308 30/30 things like that?


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

Southern part of the state, especially the SE all for it, no reason not to. Rest of state not so much. Simple matter of terrain.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Don't think that is in our immediate future


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

TomC said:


> So I know that they opened it up to rifle rounds of straight walled only, whats the thought of them opening it up to other rounds as well? .308 30/30 things like that?


They will just about as soon as I sell all my shoulder'ed cartridge firearms. 
And that won't be anytime in the near future.


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## chatterbox (Jan 7, 2013)

One of the worst ideas I have ever heard of for such a flat, highly populated state. The rifles we can use now will kill deer or people to 200 yards, what more is needed? Besides it is common knowledge that most deer are killed at ranges of 50 yards or less, even in mountain states. Also, take into account, how many crippled deer there would be, because of lousy marksmen taking shots way beyond their capabilities. Also, in Ohio we hunt in mostly small wood lots where accuracy is needed, not long range capabilities.

All THE DEER EVER BREAD, WILL NOT REPLACE ONE PERSON DEAD!


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

The whole state is not flat nor highly populated.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

In Indiana you can now shoot center fire rifle calibers. My cousin who lives there told me about this. I was in such disbelief that I looked it up. I'm still in shock. That's some flat land there. If Michigan were to do it Ohio might follow suit in SE Ohio. Just another reason to stay away from public land down here. The war starts tomorrow.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

chatterbox said:


> One of the worst ideas I have ever heard of for such a flat, highly populated state. The rifles we can use now will kill deer or people to 200 yards, what more is needed?


 
It's never gonna happen but I heard this same argument when the idea of using straight walled cartridges was purposed and that hasn't turned out too bad. 
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## midoh39 (May 8, 2005)

I work at a Dick's in Indianapolis,and I was very surprised while doing my training for the lodge that they had the new rule put in place. But, from what I have encountered is that quite a few people have been confused that these calibers are only allowed on private property. Even the guys I work with aren't sure why they changed the law. But, I never see this happening on Ohio. As the guys I work with and you guys put it, some people will be pushing the limits instead of taking a sure shot.


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

It will not happen here unless the right "important, previliged, people" want to hunt with them.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

But yet in this state we can hunt squirrel with one of the most treacherous rounds ever made. The .22. Go figure!
I've hunted in W.V and Ky. using necked down cartridges. Much of the same terrain as here. No problems!
Also varmint hunted here for years using the same. No problem.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

If the land is flat does a bullet travel forever?


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## PapawSmith (Feb 13, 2007)

Saugernut said:


> It will not happen here unless the right "important, previliged, people" want to hunt with them.


I don't see the addition of any standard rifle rounds in the future, for a couple obvious reasons, but what on earth do you mean by this statement?


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

fastwater said:


> But yet in this state we can hunt squirrel with one of the most treacherous rounds ever made. The .22. Go figure!
> I've hunted in W.V and Ky. using necked down cartridges. Much of the same terrain as here. No problems!
> Also varmint hunted here for years using the same. No problem.


The difference is that there are not 400,000 squirrel or varmit hunters hunting at the same time


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

I personally know of 4 incidents here in the past that have involved a stray bullet from a hunter. All involved property being impacted. One through a window of a house and into the wall, one through an exterior wall and into a closet, one into an exterior wall and not into the house, and one in the roof of a garage. Three out of the four were from squirrel and **** hunters shooting .22 LR and .22 WMR at game in trees (all three of the houses) and the other was from a 12 gauge slug at a downward angle. The guy was in a tree stand at the top of a hill and shooting down the bank at a deer. It missed the deer and somehow threaded the needle, so to speak , through all the trees and into the roof of the garage. 

I think rifles would be just fine in ohio, but I doubt it will ever happen. Too much bs for them to deal with. 

Even on flat ground, unless you're shooting in the air, no rifle will go more than a few hundred yards without crashing into dirt. Yes there are rifles capable of shooting 500, 800, 1000 yards. Those rifles also have 3 ft of drop at those ranges as well. So unless you're trying to compensate for that drop and shooting at a target at those ranges, odds are your bullet will be in the dirt well before it's out of your sight. 

I'd actually worry about it more down here in southern ohio because you can't see more than a couple hundred yards and we have hills. In flat land, you're shooting flat and you can see forever. Here, you're shooting up and down hills and you can't see what's on the other side. I can see more of a chance of the irresponsible weekend warrior orange army officer sending a .30 caliber round aimlessly into the air and having it come down onto God knows what a mile away here in the hills , than I do in the flat land where he can see the houses 500 yards away and is shooting at a flat trajectory 3 foot off of the ground.


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

Papaw
In the society we live in today my statement should be painfully obvious.
Im saying that if the average joe wanted this done it would not happen but if the right person in a position of power decides he wants it then that person will get his way. This is just the world we live in today. Kinda goes back to the haves and the have nots.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

Which right person in the position of power wanted Sunday hunting , straight walled cartridges for deer, a season on river otters, etc? 

I only ask because I have been personally involved in a couple of major changes to the regulations in my lifetime and I can assure you than none of them were because of "the right person in the position of power" wanting it done. It was because enough regular Joe's came to the open houses, emailed, wrote letters, etc. And showed enough interest that it was looked into and determined to be feasible. 

It may take years to cut through the red tape to get it done, but I can assure you through experience that our ODNR listens to the regular Joe.


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

Well you have your experiences and I have mine, you have your opion and I have mine thats what great about this site. You comment on a subject, reply to someone and another person jumps all over you. Well my friend I would be willing to bet that somewhere along the lines that during those major changes you refer to that the right person was involved if not it would not have happened.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

On what basis? Have you ever actually been involved in changing a regulation or creating a new one? 

I'm not jumping all over you. I just don't buy speculations based on no facts or experiences. I'm not saying that you don't have facts or experience, I'm just saying you haven't offered it if so.


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

Ok I'll give you one example from one of my personal experiences.
A group of illegal hunters hunt a certain area every year on opening day, this is public land mind you.
These hunters commit numerous violations each year that could be charged on a federal level due to the game involved. This goes on for several years and is reported to the dnr with specific facts, declscriptions and even real time while the violations are being commited however enforcement action is never taken until these indivduals offend a person with polical influence then all of a sudden its top priorty for the dnr. Just one of my experiences.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Lundy said:


> The difference is that there are not 400,000 squirrel or varmit hunters hunting at the same time


I suppose you have a point Lundy. I've heard that reasoning before.

But that 'reasoning' just begs the question, ' are there more hunting related shootings/accidents in surrounding states that allow bottle necked cartridges then here during their deer season when there are 400,000 hunters afield in those states'?

I suppose those statistics are available for comparison.




beaver said:


> I personally know of 4 incidents here in the past that have involved a stray bullet from a hunter. All involved property being impacted. One through a window of a house and into the wall, one through an exterior wall and into a closet, one into an exterior wall and not into the house, and one in the roof of a garage. Three out of the four were from squirrel and **** hunters shooting .22 LR and .22 WMR at game in trees (all three of the houses) and the other was from a 12 gauge slug at a downward angle. The guy was in a tree stand at the top of a hill and shooting down the bank at a deer. It missed the deer and somehow threaded the needle, so to speak , through all the trees and into the roof of the garage.
> 
> I think rifles would be just fine in ohio, but I doubt it will ever happen. Too much bs for them to deal with.
> 
> ...


You can add a couple more incidents to that story beaver. 
There is a .22 projectile in our living room wall as we speak from a squirrel Hunter. Came through the window. Happened before we moved here but the previous owners told us about it.
And, several years ago, a fella I worked with wife that lives just outside Baltimore Ohio was in the shower. A slug came through the shower stall just inches from her embedding in the wall.


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## chadwimc (Jun 27, 2007)

Saugernut said:


> It will not happen here unless the right "important, previliged, people" want to hunt with them.


If you work hard and apply yourself, you could possibly become one of those "people"...


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

No thanks I never wanna become one of them.


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## Fishon1546 (Mar 15, 2014)

chadwimc said:


> If you work hard and apply yourself, you could possibly become one of those "people"...


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

it's been some time since I hunted squirrels, are you allowed to use a .22 for them now? It used to be shotgun only, but that's been quite a while ...


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Only shotgun and necked down cartridges like the 300 Win Mag. 

Gets 'em every time. 

A rifle season in Ohio would decimate the herd.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

baitguy said:


> it's been some time since I hunted squirrels, are you allowed to use a .22 for them now? It used to be shotgun only, but that's been quite a while ...


Yep...you can use a .22 for squirrels now. Wish they would go back to shotgun only though.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

fallen513 said:


> Only shotgun and necked down cartridges like the 300 Win Mag.
> 
> Gets 'em every time.
> 
> *A rifle season in Ohio would decimate the herd*.


Years of excessive bag limits, yotes and poaching is already doing a fine job of that. 

Yet there are those that don't think that's happening even when they aren't seeing deer nor deer sign. Won't be too much longer our herd will be just like it was in the late 60's and early 70's. Just like Tonkovich wants it to be. Those here old enough to remember hunting in those days don't really want to see it there again. 
But I digress...


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

Saugernut said:


> Ok I'll give you one example from one of my personal experiences.
> A group of illegal hunters hunt a certain area every year on opening day, this is public land mind you.
> These hunters commit numerous violations each year that could be charged on a federal level due to the game involved. This goes on for several years and is reported to the dnr with specific facts, declscriptions and even real time while the violations are being commited however enforcement action is never taken until these indivduals offend a person with polical influence then all of a sudden its top priorty for the dnr. Just one of my experiences.


I really belive Sunday hunting came about, because the state saw a way of makeing more money by selling more licenses. Money still talks.


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## EStrong (Jul 23, 2014)

fallen513 said:


> A rifle season in Ohio would decimate the herd.





fastwater said:


> Years of excessive bag limits, yotes and poaching is already doing a fine job of that.


Question: Doesn't Ohio have one of the largest numbers of out of state deer hunters in the region due to the low cost for out of state tags? I don't know the numbers, but from what I've heard/gleaned here and there, for an Ohio hunter to hunt out of state, it's expensive as all get out to purchase non resident tags. For out of state hunters to come to Ohio, it's one of the cheapest around, even cheaper than most neighboring states resident tags. If that's the case, maybe Ohio should raise the non resident cost to be around the same as other states. Perhaps that would leave more deer for Ohioans. Yes/No, just curious. I don't hunt deer, so I'm not up to date on all the in's and out's of all the processes and policies. Thanks!


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

EStrong said:


> Question: Doesn't Ohio have one of the largest numbers of out of state deer hunters in the region due to the low cost for out of state tags? I don't know the numbers, but from what I've heard/gleaned here and there, for an Ohio hunter to hunt out of state, it's expensive as all get out to purchase non resident tags. For out of state hunters to come to Ohio, it's one of the cheapest around, even cheaper than most neighboring states resident tags. If that's the case, maybe Ohio should raise the non resident cost to be around the same as other states. Perhaps that would leave more deer for Ohioans. Yes/No, just curious. I don't hunt deer, so I'm not up to date on all the in's and out's of all the processes and policies. Thanks!


That would make too much sense! I have no idea why the state has not increased non-resident fees to match what other states charge.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

Just because others gouge, doesn't mean we should. It cost a non resident $151 for the chance to kill a deer here. That's more than I'd be willing to pay to kill these things. 

It's a double edged sword. Higher cost equal less hunters, which is good for hunters short term. However it also means a lot less revenue for certain businesses this time of year. There are a lot of mom and pop places that rely on out of state hunters and their money. Plenty of resident hunters rely on those mom and pop places and don't want to see them go away.


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## DontDoubtTheJones (Oct 25, 2016)

I have read the non-resident fees will increase in 2017, no idea what the increase will be. In 2015, non-residents accounted for 11% of the deer permits & 8% of the total harvest (15,468 deer)


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

beaver said:


> Just because others gouge, doesn't mean we should. It cost a non resident $151 for the chance to kill a deer here. That's more than I'd be willing to pay to kill these things.
> 
> It's a double edged sword. Higher cost equal less hunters, which is good for hunters short term. However it also means a lot less revenue for certain businesses this time of year. There are a lot of mom and pop places that rely on out of state hunters and their money. Plenty of resident hunters rely on those mom and pop places and don't want to see them go away.


Judging by the amount of money that out of staters are spending in my AO buying and leasing land for deer hunting, I think that they can afford to pay more for a license. I understand the local economy factor, I don't think that an out of state license increase will have a negative effect on local economies during deer season. A basic rule of business is to never under value your commodity. Currently Ohio is doing just that by being one of the cheapest states to hunt in. If a guy can afford weapons, clothing, truck, atv, gas, food, lodging, land access, etc, etc, to come to Ohio to hunt-then I think that he should be able to pay the going rate for an out of state license and tag.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

I really don't think we're under valuing anything. People come here because it's affordable, not because they can't find better deer and deer hunting elsewhere. If you compare us to southern states, yea we have good deer. Compared to other Midwestern states, we don't have anything special besides cheaper tags. If the price was the same as Illinois, people would just go to Illinois.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

If a guy can afford all that stuff, then yes he should probably be able to afford a little more. However, that doesn't mean he should have to pay it. I can afford a $10 lunch everyday during the work week, does that mean I should pay $10 for a $5 value meal?

Not to mention that not everyone can afford all that stuff. For every hunter like that, there is the average guy who hunts public land with minimal gear and a shotgun passed on to him from his grandaddy and dad. They come here because they can pay $150 in license and tag fees, and have a chance to get away from the hustle and bustle of wherever they came from for a weekend.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

one3 said:


> I really belive Sunday hunting came about, because the state saw a way of makeing more money by selling more licenses. Money still talks.


As one that was actively involved at the time of the Sunday hunting law change I can tell you that your statement is not accurate.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

I believe Sunday hunting came about because the powers that be were intelligent enough to figure out that it was a stupid and pointless law to begin with.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Lundy said:


> As one that was actively involved at the time of the Sunday hunting law change I can tell you that your statement is not accurate.


+1 to this.

Revenue as far as Sunday hunting went had very little, if anything to do with the changes that were made. 
Like Lundy, being involved with those changes as well, I will say that it had everything to do with two things:

1) the outcry of hunters to allow it
2) ODNR figuring it would further help in their goal of the reduction of the deer herd appeasing insurance companies, farmers etc. 

Simply put...a win/win for all parties concerned.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

The Farm Bureau, you know those guys that own the vast majority of the land that hunters hunt on  needed to be convinced that their lives would not be adversely effected by permitting Sunday hunting. Once the land owners (Farm Bureau) were brought on board it was a quick result but it took many, many, many years and a lot of work and discussion to get to that point.

If it was about money it could have been done a lot earlier, and easier, than it was.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

EStrong said:


> Question: Doesn't Ohio have one of the largest numbers of out of state deer hunters in the region due to the low cost for out of state tags? I don't know the numbers, but from what I've heard/gleaned here and there, for an Ohio hunter to hunt out of state, it's expensive as all get out to purchase non resident tags. For out of state hunters to come to Ohio, it's one of the cheapest around, even cheaper than most neighboring states resident tags. If that's the case, maybe Ohio should raise the non resident cost to be around the same as other states. Perhaps that would leave more deer for Ohioans. Yes/No, just curious. I don't hunt deer, so I'm not up to date on all the in's and out's of all the processes and policies. Thanks!


I can't give you statewide documented figures in the increase/reduction of out of state hunters that are leaving this state and going to 'greener pasture' to hunt, but I will say that in the last 4yrs I know of three outfits that have left. I know the owners of all the three properties that were leased by these groups and met, and hunted with two out of the three groups. All three had leased these properties for several years.
I can tell you for certain the reason all left...the declining numbers of deer on these properties. Period! 
The two groups I hunted with, I can tell you for certain, it didn't have anything to do with the money. There were a few that had spent thousands over their lifetimes hunting all over the world. Trips that most of us just dream about. When it came to $ and hunting, these guys surely weren't worried about a few hundred $'s for license or anything else either way
It was more about their time spent versus the chance of killing a trophy....or at least killing a couple big doe to take home.
The third party that I never met, the property owner said these guys told him the same. They also told him that if it wasn't for the great turkey hunting, they would have left for elsewhere a couple years prior.
This says one thing to me...Ohio's once, great reputation for killing a monster buck or at least a big, corn feed, mid-western doe for their efforts that once stood tall with other Midwestern states is depleting and the word is getting out. 
To some, that may sound great.
From a business standpoint...and with ODNR already being broke, I don't see how this is good for Ohio's economy. 
There were a total of 19 guys in these three groups with some not only coming here to deer hunt, but turkey hunt as well...you do the math!


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Lundy said:


> The Farm Bureau, you know those guys that own the vast majority of the land that hunters hunt on  needed to be convinced that their lives would not be adversely effected by permitting Sunday hunting. Once the land owners (Farm Bureau) were brought on board it was a quick result but it took many, many, many years and a lot of work and discussion to get to that point.
> 
> If it was about money it could have been done a lot earlier, and easier, than it was.


Absolutely!
And one of the biggest 'selling points' to the Farm Bureau as I recall was the added percentage of deer that would be killed allowing an extra day of hunting that would obviously help in reducing farmers crop damage.
If it was about $ at the time, I promise you the big insurance 'machine' in this state would have given whatever amount was necessary and ODNR wouldn't be broke today.


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## Big Chief (Dec 16, 2005)

Non resident license fees do not represent how much a guy can "afford" to spend. The price is set by the dnr and they are well aware of neighboring states fees as well. It's supply n demand, but our supply is dwindling for sure.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

The harvest is down in the entire Midwest, it's not just Ohio. This has been a trend for the last several years. The Midwest states have seen overall harvest declines of both bucks and does. Fewer deer on the landscape should result in an increase of antler size, but the statistics are pointing to fewer trophy class bucks in the harvest as well. The average age class of bucks killed has increased during this time frame.


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## roundheadjig (Nov 9, 2016)

Lundy said:


> The difference is that there are not 400,000 squirrel or varmit hunters hunting at the same time


Varmit season is not limited to one week so that is why you have 200000 hunters out in the woods.......


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

roundheadjig said:


> Varmit season is not limited to one week so that is why you have 200000 hunters out in the woods.......


Of course


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## roundheadjig (Nov 9, 2016)

Lundy said:


> Of course


Shoot a 45 caliber muzzle loader with 150 grains of loose 777 Behind a 190 grain power belt and your there........lol


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