# Kayaks for the family?



## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Decided to get some kayaks for myself the wife and our 10 yr old daughter. I started researching a couple weeks ago and had no idea OGF had our own kayak section. Very happy to see i can get some advise from the ogf family.

Would like some recomendations for all of us. Our primary use will be fishing local lakes, but the big plan is to camp 1 week a year in wv on the new river and 1 week in virginia on the shanadoah. Dont plan on any major rapids but stability is a must. Can we all use the same type of kayak or will my daughter be limited. Is a kayak even a option for a 10 yr old?

I would like to keep my budget around 400 for each kayak as i am aware there is added expences with paddles and what not. Dicks has what apears to be a nice angler kayak for 350 but with so many options its hard to tell if thats what we need or not.

Also any ideas for roof top carriers for all 3. The need to go on top of a gmc envoy which has a factory rack. We will have tt in tow so a trailer is out of the question.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Cool deal!!! You guys are going to have a BLAST this summer!!
I have a 13 yo daughter, 11 yo son, and a 9 yo daughter....everybody paddles and has since they were about 6 or 7.
Your 10 yo will take to it right away....they're faster learners than adults.

I've paddled everywhere you just mentioned quite a bit. And we're planning the same kinds of trips this summer. About the only difference is that I'll take the kiddies to the New in Virginia, just because it's so much easier of a river to paddle down there. 

But anyway, a GREAT boat for everyone just starting is the Perception Swifty. It's a perfect balance between being very stable, yet still manuverable. And even at 9.5 feet long, it's big enough for a 6 foot male and small enough for a 10 yo kid.
I have a bunch of buddies who own these boats. Most of them were their first fishing kayak, and maybe they've upgraded to a more expensive boat....but NOBODY ever sells them....which speaks to what great boats they are to have around. I know guys who have 10-12 kayaks and they just will not come off those Swiftys.

Dick's has them for like $329, and probably on sale for $299 at some point this winter.
Check em out. Sounds like a perfect fit for you.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks bubbagon. That is the exact info i was looking for. I am so glad to hear the kids can enjoy this too as it would be a deal braker if she was too young. If you have any campgrounds at the rivers you talked of that you could recomend i would also appreciate that also. Campgrounds are a hit or miss and would hate to wast a weeks vacation at a dump!!


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Well the non-dump campground might be difficult. LOL!! Seriously, I'll have to think back to which ones were better than others....because I've stayed at some real dumps.
I'll try to dig up the good ones and pass them along.

I camp and fish alot with a group of about 30-50 guys, all over WV, VA, PA, etc...We make it a point to hit the New in VA, the New and James in WV, and the Doah in VA. But the Doah hasn't been on the list the past several years due to the massive fish kill.
I have a good buddy who take great pics. Here's his page that documents most of our "rodeos" as they're called. Pretty much means everybody is gonna be camping and fishing someplace, during such and such days. Whoever shows up, shows up kind of thing. VERY fun!!
http://mikesawyer.smugmug.com/Outdoor-Sports/Smallies


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

I had no clue about the fish kill in the doah. I would float the front royal stretch in the early to mid 90's and can say i had some great bronzeback days including a couple 100 fish days. Glad you mentioned it as it is now off the list for this summer. The Rhapanock In culpepper Va(spelling) was also good to me back then. I have no experience in WV floats but hear great things about them. 
I checked out the swifty and it sounds exactly like what i want. Where is a good place to buy accessories such as rod holders?


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Here's everything you never wanted to know about the fish kill on the Doah, and surrounding watersheds:
http://www.dep.wv.gov/WWE/watershed/wqmonitoring/Pages/PotomacShenandoahFishKills.aspx

Friggin sad, man. I experienced those 100 fish days you're talking about. I mean, the Doah is like the poster child for famous smallie rivers.
Basically it's the chicken sh!t. So much animal crap got washed into the river from all the CAFOs that it depleted the oxygen supply and actually caused a bunch of fish to become "intersex" from all the hormones in chicken poop. It literally killed millions of fish.

You can find accessories at Dicks or Gander or order them online. Don't rush to do any of that though, there's A LOT of things to consider regarding placement of that stuff that may not cross your mind when you're drilling.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

lotaluck said:


> Where is a good place to buy accessories such as rod holders?


Will the yak take a milk crate in the tank well? If it does you may want to consider putting a rod holder (PVC pipe works really well) in there instead of a flush mount behind your seat. My Vapor is not milk crate friendly and I have a tough time getting rods back into the FM rod holders.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

lotaluck, The 1st time you hit the water with the family, you'll be so satisfied! The Swifty is a good cheap do anything yak. So is the Old Town Vaper 10. 
Many OGF'ers have it, so you should get some great 1st hand, honest assessments.

Both are under $400. If you want to camp out of it, the vapor wins, hands down. Plus more standard features, bigger cockpit, deck storage, moulded paddle rest, 2 cup holders etc.....(Compare Below) Good Luck--Tim 

CLICK PICS TO ENLARGE


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

Berkley makes a rod holder for $15 that will side mount on the combing.--Tim


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

You guys are great. I am pretty sure i will go with the swifty for my wife and daughter. I am totally Overwhelmed with all the yaks out there for me though. I think i want one with the dash a little closer so i can have easy acess to my gear. I like the milk crate idea for the back and also want one where i can reach the front for acess to rod holders and tackle. I kind of like the layout of the future beach Trophy 126 but not sure if it is a good quality boat. The vapor and swifty get high marks but dont hear uch on the trophy. I do however like the idea of going with a non angler adition so i can customize to my needs. Its been about 6 straight hours now of research and i am still as confused as when instarted. Atleast i know what the wife and kid get.


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## DC9781 (Apr 3, 2009)

Bubbagon is dead on about the Swiftys. Awesome boat/quality for the price. My wife has one and I'll be buying a few more for my kids soon. Being that its Winter don't be afraid to ask Dick's for a deal on them especially if you are buying more than one. The best sale price on those boats is 269.00 Memorial Day/Labor Day but I wouldn't be surprised if you can get them down there now. 

The Trophy 126. Own that boat too. For the price point I like it very much. If you look at my profile you'll see how I have mine setup. Adding a set of stadium cushions to the seat is a must though. For me it corrects the fact that the stock seat stinks. Outside of that flaw the boat is fine and is VERY stable. I've been happy with mine. Like the Swifty its a great starter kayak though you may find a better boat if you go up just a bit above the 300.00 range. My Trophy was 299. That Vaper is nice considering the leg room it offers. You don't want to feel crowded in the boat. 

For transport on top your vehicle.... Since you are hauling 3 kayaks you'll have to go with stacker bars. Yakima makes a great set of those. You may want to troll Craiglist or ebay for a deal. They show up quite often there and you may be able pick that piece up for a nice price.

One last thing.. Don't forget your fuel perks via the gift cards. Save lots of $$

Good luck with your purchases!


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

lotaluck,
One brand that you may see a lot of, but should stay clear of, is Pelican. They're made of a harder plastic and tend to crack when dropped, hitting rocks, etc.

I'll second the Perception and Old Town brands, as I have an Old Town Vapor 10 XT (they make an angler model and a 12ft. model too) and love it for fishing. The large cockpit makes getting in and out a breeze.

The accessories that can be added is endless. I didn't purchase the Angler model ($450) and saved a bunch by getting the plain XT and installed my own flush mount rod holders, trolling side mount rod holders and fishfinder mount. I purchase mine at Dunham Sports for $299 and a second one for my brother a week later with a coupon that Dunhams sent me in my e-mail for $279.
Here's a link to the Dunham Sports store locator: (just type in your zip code)
http://www.dunhamssports.com/store-map/

Dick's and Gander Mtn. are good places to shop too, but watch/wait for their sales...better prices for the same kayak. 

My fishing machine:


















Bowhunter57


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

My $.02...
And I've been criticized for this before, as everyone is "protective" of their brand, yak, etc...kind of like a Ford/Chevy thing...but here goes anyway:

I don't like the Vapor. It's a fine boat, but it misses in alot of categories.
The cockpit is just too large. This whole "ease of getting in and out" thing...my cockpit is half that size, and I've never considering getting in or out even remotely difficult, or challenging in any way. 
To me its way more important how the boat functions ONCE you're in the boat.
The front deck is just too far away. You can't store anything there that you'd want to reach...like a tackle bag, or rod holders. It's just too far away.
Rear flush munt rod holders...hate 'em. Rods sticking up is a recipe for disaster...for me anyway. From some angles, like if the boat is cocked one way or another, when I go to cast I'll catch my lure on one of the rods that stick up. In fact, I've broken a rod doing this. It's just not for me as I cast A LOT. I throw a lot of spinnerbaits on baitcasters, and the last thing I want to do before each cast is make sure I'm clear of the rods behind me.
So I like to situate my rods in front of me, and facing forward and parallel to the water. And I like to have access to my front deck, and have a tackle bag on front.
And someone mentioned a milk crate. The Vapor has one of those rear tank wells, but for whatever reason they didn't make it so it would accomodate a milk crate...which is what 99% of guys put in a rear tank well. Check it out...it won't fit. This has always puzzled me, and it basically renders the rear tank well useless.
Many boats have a "sealed rear hatch" which you'll find way more functional. You can store things inside it to keep them dry, and if neccessary still mount additional bags, rods, etc... on the rear deck.

At the end of the day, if both boats were sitting in my garage, I can't think of any times when I'd chose the Vapor over the Swifty.

And I don't know much about those Trophy yaks and I don't think I have any buddies with one. But I know alot of other guys on here paddle them.

Once you get gigged up, check out this video. It's how I have one of my boats accessorized. There can be many things to consider, but a good rule is smaller and more simple is usually better.

Good luck man! No matter what boat you get, you guys are going to have a great time on the water this year!!!


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)




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## jonnyspeed (Mar 11, 2007)

My first boat was a Wilderness Systems Pamlico 100. I LOVE that boat. Still have it and use it often. I paid $299 at Dicks a few years ago on sale and I have never found any small recreational boat that touches this one for quality forthe price. I added rod holders and an anchor trolley and I have fished and paddled it all over. The WS seat is really comfortable. I did a 14 mile paddle up and down the upper cuyahoga and my butt and back were fine. I would recommend staying away from the el cheapos out there. I picked up a bare bones low cost boat for my wife at Dicks as her first boat and she hates it. It isn't comfortable and has a flat bottom that gives her fits trying to paddle straight. Now she loves my WS Pamlico 100 though. Big difference. We also have a 15' Old town 2adult plus 1 child boat that we use often as well.







































Now having said that... I vastly prefer a Sit on Top boat for fishing. There are so many available with so many cool features that it hard to go wrong. Anyways, enjoy and welcome to the awesome world of Kayak fishing!


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

Bubbagon said:


> I don't like the Vapor. It's a fine boat, but it misses in alot of categories.
> The cockpit is just too large. The front deck is just too far away. You can't store anything there that you'd want to reach...like a tackle bag, or rod holders. It's just too far away.


Bubbagon,
I have to agree with you on this point. I'd like to have the cockpit more closed, by about half. The front deck & deck tray is useless.




Bubbagon said:


> Rear flush munt rod holders...hate 'em. Rods sticking up is a recipe for disaster...
> It's just not for me as I cast A LOT. I throw a lot of spinnerbaits on baitcasters, and the last thing I want to do before each cast is make sure I'm clear of the rods behind me.
> And someone mentioned a milk crate. The Vapor has one of those rear tank wells, but for whatever reason they didn't make it so it would accomodate a milk crate...which is what 99% of guys put in a rear tank well. Check it out...it won't fit.


I've snagged my rods that were in the flush mounts, when casting. It's something to be aware of or else you're gonna backlash a reel. Not the best method of storage, but I troll more than I cast, so it's not a huge issue.

It would be nice if the rear tank well could accomodate a milk crate, but I store most of my gear behind the seat or up front, in the nose. Just the same, the rear well holds and is a perfect fit for my tackle bag.

I've been looking at a SOT kayak, but don't like getting wet. I've never paddled one, so it may not be an issue. The open scupper holes look like they could be a problem. Thing is, I only fish flat water, so streams and rivers aren't a consideration. If it gets too windy/wavy, I'll call it a day.

The Vapor has got me started and I'm hooked. Doing an upgrade is always a possibility.

Bowhunter57


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Bowhunter57 said:


> lotaluck,
> One brand that you may see a lot of, but should stay clear of, is Pelican. They're made of a harder plastic and tend to crack when dropped, hitting rocks,
> Bowhunter57


Excelent! Thats the info i need.
On another note i went to dicks today and checked out their yaks again. I think i am leaning towards the swift for myself also. I really appreciate everyones recomendations. I sat in one today and like that i can rig the front dash up and have it close enough to reach. My only fear now is that i will out grow it as i do most of my toys. So if there is any advise as far as mabey one a little more expensive but will have room to grow let me know. I am convinced it will be the perfect fit for my wife and daughter though.

Bubbagon,
What kind of yak is that in the video you posted? That is where i ultimatly want to be.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Forgot to mention. My wife wants the pink and my daughter wants green. Have not seen a green but she said she would be happy with the blue. I will probably wait to get theirs when they go on sale. I would like to have mine asap as it will get all the rigging and will give me something to do this winter in the basement.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

I'll second Johnny on the Wilerness Systems Pamlico...it was my second boat. It has become the mainstay for my kids when fishing.
GREAT boat...very wide bottom...which can be a little troublesome for my younger kids when they 7-10 years old as they're arms are just too short.
I also think they've since jacked up the prices on The Pamlicos...better seat, etc...
Check this one out. It's the Perception Sport Rhytm 10. Awesome seats, pads, etc..has a sealed rear bulkhead, and has more of an intermediate style hull. Meaning its not super flat like a Swifty, Pamlico, Vapor, etc...
It has a hair more rocker, and the cross section isn't as wide and flat. 
I'm sure it would be a kickass boat for the New, Doah...those styles of rivers. But would take some paddling adjustments on flat water.

Wide flat boats, with heavy keels and channels hulls, make a boat very stable and track straight. Great things for flat water. But kind of problematic on slightly more technical mobing water.
That Rhythm would do both nicely, it might just take a few trips paddling it on flat water, and paying attention to your paddle strokes to get it to comfortable track well.
Essentially, it would be a boat that could do more, and you could grow into a bit. Most guys like me get their first boat, and then start noticing things they'd like to improve upon for their next boat. 
I think a boat like that Rhytm would be an awesome first boat, and one you'd probably not feel a need to "upgrade" for many, many years.
Most boats of this style are more in the $600-$800 range...and this one is made very well.

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...utdoors_WaterSports_Kayaks&cp=4413993.4417832

(Check out the reviews underneath. Sounds VERY close to what you're looking for!!)


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

My boat is a Dagger Blackwater 10.5. It has the intermediate style hull and also a drop down skeg for flat water. Best of both worlds kind of thing.
They changed the design a few years back and kind of cheaped up the plastic a bit, but it's still a great do anything boat.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

The next "step up" would be an awesome boat called the Dagger Axis, It can truly handle class III's and is an GREAT river boat. It does have a drop down skeg, although not a lake paddlers dream boat by any means.
Not a bad deal on this one:
http://www.theoutdoorsource.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=33512


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Bubbagon said:


> I don't like the Vapor. It's a fine boat, but it misses in alot of categories.



It isn't a good angler platform but it does work. It is a comfortable yak to float in, I can do 3+ hours and not get a numb butt. It is roomy and I like the huge cockpit, I can lay back and have my legs resting up on the top. It also makes retrieving tackle bags or other gear stored forward easier. 

The tiny dashboard has a cup holder and two small recesses to hold small gear like lures but you have to lean up there to get anything. I had to make my own dashboard mounted rod holder out of PVC but you could attach some to the top of the hull and make them a little more convenient.

I don't know what they were thinking about with that tank well, it will hold your lunch and some light jackets but that's about it. 

It's a good day use recreational kayak. It's very, very stable, I've never come close to dumping. It would probably make a good yak for your kids but If you plan to fish regularly I'd look away from Old Town kayaks since they they won't accept a milk crate.

Take a few road trips to some dealers and look at their stock. BassPro, and Dicks carry a few models. D&D in Forest Park and Great Miami Outfitters in Miamisburg (they will let you demo a yak for a full day) have many more models to chose from. I'm sure there are more local dealers to check lout as well.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Hmm, just when i thought i had it all figured out i came across a dagger 10.5 crosover left over from 2011 for 679. I sure like the idea of the retractable skag but other than that it appears to be alot like the rhythm.. So now i am torn between the 2. The rhythm will come in about $300 below the dagger but it appears that the more serious yakers are runing the dagger. It must be for a reason. Alot of reviews on the dagger also and anly a few at dics for the rhythm. I am going to pull the trigger this month but still not pointed on a direct target for myself. 
I did talk to my local Dicks and they said the mgr would probanly discount the 2011 left over swifty's. Ill probably grab a stacker this week and pick those up. If i go with the rhythm i will have to order it because none of the Dicks around here stock them. Fuel perks will sure come in Handy this month.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Completly missed the link to the axis. I will give them a ring tomorrow and see if they still have it. I like it!! I guess i could learn on the swiftys if i go this rout.


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Don't rule out sot's, If you want to stay dry, don't kayak, lol. Only water that gets on me is the drip's from the paddle, plus you never have to bail a sot, you get in and out you don't bring water in the boat, plus it's easier to get in and out. The swifty is hard to beat for the price, but once you get addicted, you'll be looking for much more expensive rides, but the swifty will see it's fair share of water time.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks stuck, spent a good amount of time today at app outfitters. I really like the axis 10.5.


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## jonnyspeed (Mar 11, 2007)

IMHO you don't really stay any drier in a SINK. As a matter of fact, when things go wrong, you will be having a much worse day in a SINK. You should be dressed for the conditions regardless so it's not like you will be wearing shorts in March or anything. I was given some good advice that I try to adhere to and that is to dress like you plan on dumping it. When I started kayak fishing I thought I didn't want to get wet either. I soon realized that some amount of water is inevitable. Paddle drips, splashes, fish, etc... I realized it was better to just dress and be prepared. I dumped my 15' tandem last year in 45 degree water, but thankfully we had towels and dry clothes stowed in dry stowage. The biggest pain was draining all of that water out of that giant SINK. Nothing beats being prepared  I still fish from my Pamlico 100 SINK and I love that boat, but a good dedicated SOT fishing yak will give a lot more flexibility. Either way, you will have fun.


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