# Fishing Methods



## atrkyhntr

I could *NOT* believe I read the following at the following Ohio DNR Link: 
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/Fishing/aquanotes-fishid/ccarp.htm 

FISHING METHODS: Carp can be caught with many different angling methods. Conventional equipment such as cane pole, throw line, or bait casting rods baited with dough balls, worms, crayfish tails, and similar baits are all effective. In addition, many anglers like to use bow and arrow to catch carp. Carp may also be taken with clubs, spears, and by snagging in overpopulated areas.


> bow and arrow to catch carp


If this was simply "catching" carp then they could be released unharmed but it is *NOT!!!*  



> Carp may also be taken with clubs


WTF is that all about? *CLUBS??*  

Any comments...


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## rustyfish

I am completely repecting all carp fishermen here but, they are an invasive species that make it hard on navtive fish. Only they are to wide spread and overpopulated for DNR to do anything about them. So they dont. Anything goes, clubs bows or hooks. I can understand that you guys enjoy fishing for them, your makeing the best out of the situation. But i also see no reason to protect them in any way.


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## atrkyhntr

Once again you are completely wrong on a subject...
Carp were introduced to this country thus they do not fall under invasive species  
Introduced as a food source, look in the link provided above...
Guess you'd like to dump the ringneck pheasant too... it would fall under your invasive blanket


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## rustyfish

Once again im not wrong, I did not use the wrong word. Were carp introduced to every county in ohio????? I think not. But they are there now. So they are invasive.

Yes they were introduce by euros for a food source. But that does not change anything. They were introduce before anyone knew what they were doing. And they are no longer used as a food sorce. There are few people that actually eat them. 

I have been bow fish and carp snagging quite a few times, we always gave them to an old man down the road. He liked to eat them. And that is no different the catching them on a hook and eating them, so what is the big deal.


Man i am not giving you a hard time for being a carp fisherman. I am just saying how i think ODNR see it. It does not matter if you like to fish for them or not you have to see they have negativly affected native fish. They also grow too fast to be a major diet for native fish. Im sure DNR couldnt care less either way. There are too many to get rid of and they have know reasoning to protect them. Therefore it is anything goes. 

The simple fact that almost nothing eats a mature carp (including humans) has caused them to be overpopulated. Come on man they are everywhere. Do you really think bow hunters, snaging, and clubing is really going to put a dent in the population. I truely think you will have all the carp you can catch for a long time.

Oh and iv never seen a ringneck pheasant, but iv seen tons of carp every time i go fishing.


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## atrkyhntr

I can never justify the killing of any animal or fish just for fun in the name of (give me a break) sport... That is not sport in my eye and using a club is as unethical as it can get...


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## atrkyhntr

Oh yea I think your right you can call them invasive they do fit the description as defined...  
My bad... 
Guess I'm lucky I harvest a few wild pheasant ever year


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## rustyfish

I can agree with that, when we Shot or snaged carp we gave them to the old man i was talking about. In return he would let us fish in his pond. (some people would frown on this deal but that is a different topic) 

I dont like killing for no reason. But it is sorta like the the area where they are telling people to through flatheads on the bank. But when a fish has been there so long that lots of people dont know they are not native i guess the best thing to do is nothing. Dont protect them and dont try to get rid of them. 

I dont hate carp i just always use to argue with my buddy about them for fun. When i started on the this site i got out of control a few time talking about them. I guess i just viewed it as people should not mess with nature, they just screw it up. If we introduce something we shouldnt have then we should get rid of it. But it is to late for that.

I guess it is to hard to decied right or wrong. But like i said i dont think you going to run out of carp any time soon. 

No hard feelings


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## steelmagoo

Anyone ever tried sneaking up on and then clubbing a carp? I gotta think the fish has a pretty fair chance! I guess if someone gets their jollies batting carp and it is legal, then OK. Might make America's Funniest Home Videos.


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## tpet96

Hey Clyde,

I had a place here with a HUGE wild pheasant population that I could hunt. The pheasants are still there, but the nice lady that gave me permission to hunt her land passed on. Anyways, her son won't let anyone back there anymore......and it's ALL gone to pot now growth wise. Used to be taken care of really well. Such a shame 

As for the rest of this topic.......I find it best to always stay out of it and carry on my daily routines


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## tpet96

Rusty,

With this quote:



> I guess i just viewed it as people should not mess with nature, they just screw it up.


Are you also agreeing then that the state should not stock: Saugeye, Steelhead, Hybrid Stripers, Brown/Rainbow Trout, etc. into Ohio waters? These are non-native fish....and the DNR messed with nature. If that is the case, any body of water that has been stocked should be drained and the fish removed, and let evolution take it's course to stock it  

Notice no carp in there  Told you I was going to leave the topic at hand alone


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## rustyfish

Well when it comes to man made lakes it is hard to say. I would like to say put in whatever you want. But those fish can make it out of the lakes in to natural waters. I mean there are lakes in Cali that the are blowing up because out of hand introduced fish. We, all people, are not good at making adjustments to nature and still keeping that balance. 

But heck we have all ready started so now we must keep it up. I say we go all out with it. Lets just see how many different fish we can get in Ohio..lol. So none of this really maters now, there is no more mother nature, we took over.


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## Fishman

rustyfish said:


> I am completely repecting all carp fishermen here but, they are an invasive species that make it hard on navtive fish. Only they are to wide spread and overpopulated for DNR to do anything about them. So they dont. Anything goes, clubs bows or hooks. I can understand that you guys enjoy fishing for them, your makeing the best out of the situation. But i also see no reason to protect them in any way.



For once Rustyfish actually took the words right out of my mouth, minus the grammatical errors.



As for Ringnecks they don't do well here because of lack there of habitat and predation. Unfourtantly Northern America doesn't have many freshwater predatory species capable of eatting a 20lb carp.


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## Fishman

Shawn come on now man, you know all the species you listed generate buku bucks for the state


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## rustyfish

Fishman are you ok, did you agree with me. haha 

Hey its summer brake, i dont have to besmart untill i go back to college.


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## Bass_Hawg

I like to eat Tacos.

Hey dumb A$$ Tacos are not native to Ohio. You might ruin all the native foods and their suppliers.

No I wont 

Yes you will

No I wont

Yes you will

Take that and that and that you taco loven burrito head

Take that you fat smelly hamburger hugging grease monkey

Do you really think it matters? Fish for what you like, if you catch something you think is going to destroy the water way you are fishing and it is legal to do so then get rid of the fish. I for one have never taken a club with me to use as part of my fishing tackle. Apparently if you are a carp its legal to get clubbed. I myself have been fishing quite a few times and have never seen anyone club a carp but hey, doesnt mean it dont happen.


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## tpet96

> Shawn come on now man, you know all the species you listed generate buku bucks for the state


Tom,

That's the exact reason they are looking to put stipulations on carp up on the St. Lawrence River now. Carp fishing is BIG $$$ up there. It's not about what is good for the enviroment, etc....it's where the $$ is. If carp were a highly sought after species in Ohio, the DNR's views would be different


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## rustyfish

Bass Hawg, dude i cant even respond to that.


That was my point, DNR does not see it differently because they serve no real importance. I'm sure all of those other introductions were researched. And hybrids are possible in nature. In lots of the state trout do not do well enough to cause a problem if they get out of the man made lakes they are stocked in. As for tacos, most of the time they dont live more than five sec. in our habitat so they are not going to cause any problems. Although they are known to be disruptive coming out.


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## PAYARA

I 100% agree with Shawn on this.carpfishing dose
and has been bringing in the bacon up on the St larry
for years now.oh and by the way,theres maybe a handful
of FW species in NA that brings scores of anglers in from
half way around the world to spend big $.guess whos at or 
very near to the top  of the list give it 20 yrs and specific 
carp strains will be purposly stocked into our waters for angling
purposes.heck, 20yrs might be overkill .. .......


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## Fishman

Don't get me wrong guys, I love carp just as much as the next guy as far as fishing goes. As for as how environmentally sound they are - well thats another story.

Shawn you right, generally speaking the state does concern its self with money related matters first. However some of the species you listed, saugeye inparticular, we're introduced to fill a gap in the food chain. I know I'm preaching to the choir but walleyes and sauger don't do we'll in small lakes, saugeye fit the bill. Musky do great in medium sized lakes and are native to Ohio, however spawning rarley occurs in lakes they are stocked in. Hybrid striped bass are sterile - I know from personal experiance they ARE eatting machines, but overall on account of not reproducing there isn't a long term negative effect. It is fesable for Hybrid striped bass to occur naturally but because of mans intervention it rarely if never occurs. Browns and rainbows, for the most part are introduced to habitats where popular game fish don't fluourish (cold water). Granted the steelheads (also rainbow trout) are in lake Erie they live in areas perch and walleye do not - for the most part. There for they fill a niche that otherwise goes over looked.

Carp are a direct threat to native fish in every aspect of the idea aside from creating a forage base for fish which isn't realistic given the growth rates, if someone wants to argue that I'll go head to head with them on that.

They are here and there is no changing that. Enjoy them by any means possible whether is be by hair rig or club 

Rustyfish; I agree with you alot on common carp but you need to realise if you're going to tread on peoples thoughts about carp here - expecially in this portion of the webpage - you need to respect peoples views. Whats said isn't always right nor does it always make sense but you need to remember that these people enjoy carp and there is nothing wrong with that. Heck, I might like gobies and that doesn't give you the right to bash me for it.


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## crappielooker

yadi yadi yada...blah blah blah...thats all i got out of this thread..


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## PAYARA

strange,you never hear about how the MASSIVE yearly
channel cat stockings by the state in almost every public 
water could be causing a decline in natives.no way could
dumpping 50k catfish a yr,for 4+ yrs in an 80 acre water have an 
effect on anything.


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## rustyfish

I understand you fish man. There are just so many chances to open my big mouth on this site. And i do it before i think about the fact that im not just siting around the house joking with you. Here i could tick someone off. Ive been trying to not make any direct attacks. But i like to bow fish and that was why i stuck my head in. 

I think you hit the nail on the head when you stated the difference between a fishing and an environmental point of view. Im not trying to insult the fishing point of view by bringing up the environmental point of view. 

I have given up paylaking and have been trying to convert my buddies, so i think i deserve a little space on the carp topic. lol

C&R all the carp you want, thats great. But dont hate the guy running through the shallows with a club, just laugh at him when he falls.


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## rustyfish

Channels are native and maybe that is to replace the massive amount of cats that are kept each year. You can stock a man made lake (which is really all we have in ohio) with as many native fish as you can fit in. If if some get out it changes nothing. Now if they are dumping cats in the river some where that i am not aware of then that is a different story.


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## cwcarper

I'm still quite skeptical about the amount of damage carp do to native species. Is there any evidence showing a significant decline in any native fish population that resulted directly from the introduction of carp?? Seems to me that all the pollution, farm runoff, and siltation caused by the growth/spread of the human population has had a much more dramatic impact on water quality than the carp could ever do. And as far as damaging aquatic vegetation...there aren't too many lakes i've fished that have had any problems with aquatic vegetation. In fact, the increase of phosphates, nitrates, and other "fertilizers" due to farm runoff and water treatment discharges has led to many lakes becoming weedchoked if not for the intervention of man (and on occasion the introduction of grass carp, ironically). How is it possible to say that carp have led to a decline in native populations when mankind has messed things up so badly?? Can't blame the carp just because it is more tolerant than just about any other species in these poor water conditions.


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## rustyfish

I do agree, we are the worst thing for all of nature. But just because the carp do not compare to us it does not mean they do not do anything. you can go really fare into it if you consider all of the euro/asian carp intoduces to this contry. I can see your point, but they dont help anything either.


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## atrkyhntr

I'd dare say the carp has less overall impact then any predator fish species including targeted fish such as bass, walleye, crappie, your pike(s) and catfish... Do you think these fish don't eat from each years hatch and keep eating any fish they can get into their mouths... If it fits its dinner...
Carp do not eat smaller fish by choice (maybe accident)... I also doubt they eat away every nest they hap'n upon too... I've seen bass near feeding carp in shallow water attacking crayfish and minnows chased from cover.... OK only once but it must hap'n more then the onetime I saw it... 
Carp are a super fish that doesn't get the credit they deserve... 
A buddy told me yesterday how they are really good eating from the cooler streams in Pa and he targets the smaller ones when the trout are not hitting... He fishes around Tionesta at his camp....
I won't eat them but I won't kill them for no reason either... I never killed sheephead when on the big lake too... Never saw the need for it..


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## rustyfish

How dare you!!!!lol Im going to act like you did not say that native game fish are more of problem than carp. So should we put our bass on a corn diet. Maybe the catfish can eat mud. 

Well im done with carp talk, im out of ideas without being mean. And there is no reason to be mean we are all fishermen.


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## PAYARA

this is where people are mislead.people think because
a fish is a native species,over stocking is not a problem
becuase they will co-exist wth other natives.  
its not natural to think that natives will harm other native
populations.


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## Fishman

Its so hard to post things without being rude... honesty. Some of you really don't listen which in itself is rude  Channel cats don't reproduce well in lakes if the habitat isn't there. You don't see the state stocking catfish in the Ohio river because there is suitable habitat. Sure - catfish reproduce in lakes in Ohio but not on the large scale that other fish like bluegills/bass do. Not to mention, a large majority of cat fisherman keep their catch. I've personally done stomach content analysis on channel catfish and common carp. You could lay the two piles next to each other and never know which one came from which fish. Both species feed heavily on detrital matter. By the way Payara, channel catfish are native here...

Carp arn't the end of the world, but at least admitt they arn't good for Northern American ecosystems. They root around in mud, stir up the water, eat whatever their mouth touches... the list goes on. If you understood how detrimental what even muddying up the waters is to native fish, primarily fry, you'de start to change your mind.

Sure man messes things up, agricultural run off and what not. What do you think riparian zones are for? From what I've seen I'de say they exsist along 75% of Ohios water ways where direct point pollution is a problem. What is the EPA for? People try to fix the problems people make.


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## PAYARA

i know the channel cat is native.still dos not mean they
must be stocked into every water around.i havent found
one lake yet where they have been stocked that wasnt choked
with them.they are being over stocked.and in most cases are out
numbering the carp,and even causeing a decline in carp populations.
i know of several waters where this is true.their being stocked like 
crazy and not being harvested enough and some cases rarely.whats the reason for stocking them?there has never been a decline in numbers of channels through out the state,and i have even heard/seen the stockings of bullheads by the DOW,WTF?.this catfish stocking is getting crazy!use the money to stock some pike or more stripers or even flatheads,the state has enough channel cats to survive the next 5 centuries.


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## cwcarper

I'm a researcher by trade, so I still want to see scientific data and controlled studies showing damage to native populations that can be directly linked to carp. I'm not denying the fact that they have had an impact on the ecosystem of every body of water in which they've been introduced...but over time that impact has already been minimized. And as far as water quality and muddying the water goes...i can name at least a dozen lakes in which every time it rains, the runoff creates a "chocolate milk" type environment that lasts for days. How can a few carp rooting around in the shallows, stirring up a bit of sediment that quickly settles come even close to what happens every time it rains???


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## tpet96

Here's a thought. Carpers.......go carpin'. Bassers......go bassin'. Just go fishin'.


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## catking

All valid points. I also agree that carp do minimal damage to native species. I know of a few lakes that are LOADED with bass, but yet these lakes also have a ton of carp in them. I say nature will find a way to deal with itself. Run off from farms is #1 in my book for damage to lakes. Look at the SW part of the state. Stonelick,Cowan, Rocky Fork.they all have been damaged due to farming.I once believe carp killed off most bass in a pond/lake. But I too haven't seen this actually happen. Not even close. Like I said, nature has its own way of taking care of business.......... CATKING


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## cwcarper

Wish I had time to fish


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## PAYARA

yeah,not to mention all the big 30-50lb blues and flatheads
that submurge themsleves in the mud,silt,debris.  

this whole theory of carp,or any fish clouding the water
so bad that it prohibits weed growth is CRAZY!unless we
are talking a few wels in an acre pond,than you might notice
something.


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## Fishman

The state doesn't stock bullheads. They use to suggest people stock them along time ago, and may of even stocked them along time ago because they were a reliable source of food (that was native ).

The state is using money our money to stock muskys (esocidae) which is just as good if not better than stocking pike. Why stock stripers? Althought they have in Salt Fork for brood stock fish for the hybrid striped bass production. They use to stock flatheads but abandoned that a while ago... don't think they took much public interest  Regardless when most people, primarily weekend warriors go out they are bank fishing with night crawlers just hoping to catch anything. Channel cats fit the bill nicely.

OR! Maybe its a conspiracy to get rid of carp 

I'de love to see what resources you getting your information on pertaining to catfish causing declines in carp populations or lakes choked with catfish. I'm not trying to burn you, just sounds interesting if its true.


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## Fishman

cwcarper, sorry missed your post. The data is easy to find, but to put it simply:

I come into your house and raid your fridge, you're hungry. What do you eat?

Turbid water retards photosynthesis, a majority of aquatic insects eat plants. Carp stir up mud and eat aquatic plants.


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## PAYARA

Fish, of course there is no documented evidence of a decline carp population as a result of channel stockings,just me and quite a few others who have observed this on a few area lakes.
i have weighed out the factors,no shortage of food supplies,
no bowhunting,no other harvesting methods used(or rarely),
zero to mild angling pressure,low numbers of pred species(ex.
catfish),etc.the only cause for decline i can see is the crazy amount 
of state catfish placed in the lakes for several years.that added to the already crazy population of bullheads.(and BTW the DOW did stock bullheads
in one of these lakes,they said so.and they said they were taken from
another lake in the southern part of the state with their shocking toys,
must have soem choked waters down that way too  )what iam getting
at is,i have never seen a carp under 8lbs form this water and only a
handful this size in 8yrs.these fish use to spawn hard every year,but still 
no no signs of any juvi carp at ALL from spawns that took place 3-5yrs 
ago.the rest of the carp are sickly,(DOW reported a gill and eye disease 
in the carp they sampled),and the fish really,really look bad.this wasnt the 
case before the catfish stockings.the catfish themselves are doing great ,but like i said the carp are not.i dont know for sure,and iam probably wrong but i truly believe this is a direct result of overstocking catfish as these symptoms were NOT present untill after the stockings.


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## PAYARA

sorry for the messed up paragraphs,i type worse than
i spell.


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## rustyfish

Let me know of some of these lakes way over stocked with channels. I would be more than happy to take a trip there and take home some keepers. Even if others dont keep cats, i think we would like to know of some lakes where there are enough channels to kill off the carp. Considering the fact that when the world ends the last two things to go will be roaches and carp,,, lol


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## PAYARA

deer creek res (NE)
dale walbourn res
berlin res
milton res
north res
to name a few....


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## rustyfish

tell me one thing all of those have in common and that is why they are all stocked full of channels. Notice none of those are natural or rivers! It is not wild, only difference between them and a farm pond is ownership. For the public, and i bet you a $100,000.00 if you walk door to door and have people pick between carp and channels, most will pick channels. There for they are stocked with channels.


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## PAYARA

accually two of them could be considered rivers,their just
a wide spot of the river basicly  .they drain one down to a stream
sometimes for long periods of time.when filled they make massive 
waters.and they are crawling with cats.i have nothing againts
catfish,i understand they are popular with people,i just wish they
were not piled in in the quanities they are.


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## Rooster

Why does the ODNR place such an emphasis on stocking channel cats? My opinion is that the ODNR is stuck in a 1930s mindset. That is, they still view fishing more as a means to supplement the dinner table than a sport. Look at the amount of fish stocked by the ODNR, what percentage of the stocked fish are valued more for their flesh than their fight? Further, the size & creel limits imposed by the ODNR are more of a benefit to the fish eating population than a benefit to the fish population.


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## bkr43050

Okay, I read quite a bit of this thread and have to say that there are a lot of good points presented by both sides. I am not choosing sides on the carp issue. In reference to the channel cat stocking one thing that comes to mind for me is that by the state providing a large supply of harvestable fish then it really helps to protect many of the other species from overharvest. Many of the folks that are taking catfish home to eat would be more inclined to take a large mess of bass home if they did not have the catfish. They may even take a liking to the taste of the carp as well if not for the catfish. 

The last thing that I thought I would mention is that smaller carp are not as bad of a tasting fish as most people would have you think. They become inedible by my standards once they reach a certain size but so do catfish in my opinion from many waters. We used to take a few smaller carp every now and then and cook them up. I won't go as far as saying it is the best tasting fish around but it ain't bad if it comes from a fairly clean area and is a smaller fish.


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## big snapper

rusty fish is a pay laker and a carp killer


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## tpet96

> We used to take a few smaller carp every now and then and cook them up.


Funny how that works  If you look at stocking programs at lakes in Europe, you hardly find any little fish. These little fish are the main destroyers of the vegetation, etc. Each spring, they net their syndicate lakes, releasing only the larger fish (15-50+lbs)....of course there will be a few smaller fish escape the nets. This keeps the lakes in the condition they wish to keep them in, and allows the larger fish to become even larger, and in turn provides for an awesome fishery over there. Most of their lakes are crystal clear......the larger fish do not muddy up the waters as some people here in the US believe. Sure.......shoals of smaller fish......especially during the spawn......will work the banks and muddy up the water. You've seen it.......I've seen it. But I can tell you from experience. The larger fish always fight less and slower than say a 5 lb fish. Which......In my opinion....leads me to believe once the carp reach a certain size, they do not feed as hastily and act as erratic as the smaller fish. Personally........I think the key is harvesting the smaller fish (5lb and under). I've had smoked carp......never had it any other way. It was actually pretty good. 

Thought I would mention on this thread that I've had sheephead as well. Some older lady and husband were fishing on Catawba Island one time while I was up there. They were keeping all of the sheephead they caught 2lbs and under. I was giving them mine as well. She asked me if I had ever had any, and I was like no. So.....about an hour later, she comes back from the truck with lunch for the 3 of us. The main course? Shredded sheephead sandwiches. She had taken the meat, filleted it, and boilied it. Added it to cream of mushroom soup (or cream of chicken, can't remember which) and bread.....then spread it out on bread. I must say that is likely one of the best tasting fish sandwiches I have ever eaten.


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## rustyfish

big snapper way to add such well thought out info.


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## rustyfish

Please dont pay attention to big snapper, I just found out that he is a friend of mine that got on here after i was talking about OGF, he is going around saying messed up stuff about me on the threads.

sorry


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## bkr43050

Friend???? He does not sound like much of a friend.


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## rustyfish

Ahhh he is just giving me a hard time. He does not understand that people on here are not just messing around and that i value what respect i may have here.


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## Fishman

I can only imagine right now how distrought little red headed Rusty is.


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## rustyfish

I think ill make it


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## big snapper

No rustyfish is not a carpkiller, he couldnot catch or shoot a carp to save his life or take it's

And he stoped paylaking because of the same reason, he cant even catch fish there


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