# Parking Charges in Ohio State Parks



## Procraftboats21 (Apr 6, 2004)

ODNR PROPOSES PARKING PASSES
AT OHIOS 74 STATE PARKS

Parks Pride Pass to help restore and maintain
Ohios award-winning park system

PROPOSED
DAILY PASS
per motor vehicle
$5 resident
$6 non-resident
$4 Golden Buckeye
ANNUAL PASS
per motor vehicle
$25 resident*
$30 non-resident
$20 Golden Buckeye
*a second annual pass for residents costs $20
Beginning in May, visitors to Ohio State Parks will be required to display Parks Pride Passes on their motor vehicles, under rules proposed today by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR).

The rules, filed with the legislatures Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review (JCARR), will allow Ohio State Parks to collect $5 for each daily parking pass. An annual pass, good for unlimited park visits for 12 months from the date of purchase, will cost $25. JCARR will have 90 days to review and approve the proposed rules.

If the rules are approved, Ohio will become the 45th state to enact a user fee in its park system.

Out-of-state visitors will pay $6 daily or $30 annually per vehicle for a pass, and Golden Buckeye Card holders $4 daily and $20 annually. A majority of monies generated from the sale of passes will be returned to the park where they are collected. The balance will go into a special fund to support day-to-day operations and maintenance in all 74 state parks.

By displaying Parks Pride Passes, visitors will show their personal support for Ohios award-winning state park system, said ODNR Director Sam Speck. It is their way of saying: We appreciate the value Ohio State Parks offer and we want to help protect, restore and maintain our parks for families today and into the future.


Introduction of the Parks Pride Pass marks a milestone in the 56-year history of Ohio State Parks. While general revenue funds and user fees generated from camping, boat dock rentals and concessionaire contracts have traditionally supported the cost of operating the state parks, those sources are no longer sufficient to ensure the standard of excellence for which Ohio State Parks are known, according to Speck.

Continued reductions will place our wonderful state park heritage at risk and threaten the reputation of our parks as wholesome, family-oriented destinations, he said.

Faced with increasingly difficult budget challenges and cutbacks in state funding over the last five years, the park system has responded with significant reductions in staffing, maintenance and visitor services. For example, Ohio State Parks employed 607 full-time staff members in 2000, but cut that number to 490 employees in 2004. Only 42 of the systems 74 parks now have on-site managers.

In recent years, more and more of the states budget has been allocated to Ohios other needs. Meanwhile, despite staff reductions and other belt-tightening, the costs associated with maintaining and operating state park facilities have steadily increased.

The Parks Pride Pass will help fill that gap, ensuring that Ohio families will continue to enjoy the level of service they have come to know in their state parks, Speck said.

Because each of Ohios state parks is unique in character and layout, administration of the Parks Pride Pass will vary from facility to facility. At the busiest locations, park staff will have passes available for motorists as they enter designated parking areas.

At less-busy parks and times, motorists will use an honor system drop box to obtain a pass. Parking passes will not be necessary for walk-in visitors.

Annual passes will be available for purchase at most Ohio State offices, campgrounds and lodges, at selected retail locations within individual parks, online, or by calling 1-866-OHIOPARKS (1-866-644-6727), later this spring after the proposed rule becomes effective.

Ohio State Parks will hold a public hearing at 1 p.m. on Saturday, February 12, at the Ohio Historical Center, Interstate 71 and 17th Ave., in Columbus to accept public comment on the proposed rules.

Ohio State Parks are the third most-visited state park system in the country. Only California and New York average more visitors each year to their state parks. In 1997, Ohio State Parks became the first state park system to receive the Gold Medal for Excellence from the National Recreation and Park Association as the top state park system in the country.


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## TIGHTLINER (Apr 7, 2004)

So what does that mean for the fisherman? In order to launch a boat we gotta have the pass? What about the various pull offs around the lakes? Do we have to have the pass to park there and fish? Is the pass only needed for the paved lots? Personally I think its a bad idea, but would like to hear some more information on the subject.


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## Chuck P. (Apr 8, 2004)

Give me a break..... Pay to "drive through" a park? Pay to park and walk, talk, fish, etc? 

I think NOT...


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

Yes , Yes, yes..About time!..The only reason I am for this is I hope it keeps the scum of society out of our state parks, maybe it will if they have to pay to be there.


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## twistertail (Apr 10, 2004)

I agree with flathunter. I dont really like the idea but am keeping an open mind, if after a year I dont see cleaner parks and more enforcement then I would be mad about it. I think we need to give the state a chance before we get upset about the fees.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm for it. Like stated , almost all states have this. And Ohio ranks 3rd in the most visitors. I just worry about the people who don't have the extra cash laying around and like to take their kids to the parks as a day of fun. I think they should have some type of guide lines in place for this...... CATKING


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

If you can afford to log on here and b*^^%) about the charges than you can afford the charges...give me a break...
Catking, I hope your not advocating park access welfare  this is a nominal fee folks...besides it doesn't cover county/city parks...
This reminds me of the arguements that happen when they raise liscense fees - a waste of brainpower...if you cant "afford" $15-20 for a liscense than you should not fish - IT IS A LEISURE ACTIVITY AND A PRIVILEDGE NOT A NECCESSITY...I think the free liscense for seniors is a joke as well...if anyone should get a free liscense it should be families w children on welfare - at least they "need" the "free" food. 
What's next - free passes to Cedar Point? (same thing as fishing or parks - theyre all recreation)
Enough already.....


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## Pete Moss (Apr 10, 2004)

I have no complaints with paying for parking *If,* and that is a big* If*,the money is spent on the improvement of the parks.
As for free parking to people on welfare, *HUH.*


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## noboatdave (May 5, 2004)

Master Angler is right. If you can't afford the fee you have no business being at the parks. Leave all the recreation to those who have worked hard for a good living and thereby deserve the priviledges afforded them.

Master Anglican, are you English? That's how it worked over there and now ask an Englishman about his hunting opportunities.

I pay for hunting and fishing licenses. I don't feel it is necessary to add another tax to the fees I already pay. Those of us with sportsman's licenses should be exempt from this fee. There are plenty of dog walkers, joggers, mountain bikers, bird watchers, picnicers, and gay men using our state parks for free and they are the ones who should be paying an access fee.


P.S. The poor folks on this board just might be logging in from the public library.


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## ncraft150 (Apr 5, 2004)

Here's a question. Will one $25 pass cover all the state parks or only the one it is issued in? If it doesn't cover all of them we need to stop this from happening. I would be more willing to support it if it covered all the parks. Other problems I have are once they pass this it will NEVER be free again and they will raise the rates when ever they feel like it. The next thing you will see is gates at the entrance and a fence around the park and everyone paying to get it. Once it starts it will only get worse for the future. Besides our state has allready proved they can't mange the money so why would I want to give them more? If I pay for a fishing or hunting license it should come with a free pass. I disagree with some of you guys who say if you can't afford it you shouldn't be there. What if your company lays you off tomorrow and you can't find a job until next December. You have now become one of the less fortunate that can not afford it. Thats one of the biggest problems with todays society. Nobody cares about anyone else but themselfs anymore. I can think of 100 reason to support this and 100 reasons not to. It is just a shame it has to come to this.


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

This topic has a huge thread from a few weeks ago. I was going to post there, but since this one is starting fresh...I'll put it here.
Below is a letter of reply to me from Jon A. Husted, Speaker of the Ohio House of Representatives:
January 26, 2005

Dear Mr. Guyton:
I received your e-mail concerning the proposed $5 vehicle fee at Ohios state parks. I appreciate your time and concern for this issue.

Unfortunately, the General Assembly has no say in whether or not the Ohio Department of Natural Resources recommends the Parks Pride Pass fee. However, the proposal will be under review by the Joint Commission on Agency Rule Review, or JCARR, in the near future. 

JCARR consists of five state representatives and five state senators and reviews proposed new, amended, and rescinded rules by state agencies. JCARR is expected to hold a hearing regarding this proposal on March 7, 2005. There will be a public hearing on February 12, 2005, at 1:00 p.m. at the Ohio Historical Society (Interstate 71 and 17th Avenue) regarding the Parks Pride Pass. This will be an opportunity for members of the public to hear from the Department of Natural Resources about the proposal and get a chance to voice their views on the proposal directly to the department. Also know that as discussions continue about this proposed fee I will keep your views in mind.

Again, thank you for your concern. If I can be of further assistance please contact my office.

Sincerely,

Jon A. Husted
Speaker
Ohio House of Representatives

I have asked for the names of the 5 senators and the 5 representatives that will serve on the JCARR review team. I'll post them if they get to me in time. My plan is to ask them to consider exemption for the active outdoorsmen that are already providing a good deal of support. 

I think everyone wants the parks to be funded like they used to be. But from what I have read on the topic, the State has really been cut back bad. Personally, I think the proper funding source is all Ohio residents. That might equate to 15 cents each.


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

This topic has already been gone over. It's not about being able to afford the fee! It's more about double taxation! In the past, state parks were maintained with state/federal tax dollars, now all of the sudden there aren't any tax dollars to properly maintain them. So, where's the tax dollars going???? It's also about the lack of accountability from our Governor and state legislators.
Here's a novel idea...eliminate all state taxes and then double or even triple the fees for all state licenses, add the park fee and any other fee that's affilated with a state agency. This way, at least I can elect to spend my dollars as I see fit.
For those of you who feel this fee will rid the parks of illicit behavior...you had better think again it just isn't going to happen. The assumption is, that since a fee is being charged, homosexuals won't spend the money to get into the parks. The authorities have tried for years to curtail their activities and it just keeps getting worst.


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Issue #1 - It's not about being able to afford it. It's about whether or not we should have to pay it at all. I already pay a LOT, like most of you all, and feel that another $25 is the straw that breaks the camels back. Enough is freakin enough already. 

Issue #2 - Spend the money better. The money that I already pay. If that would have been done, then we wouldn't need to pay the fee - NOT MATTER HOW MUCH. 

Issue #3 - Its NOT going to solve the pickle park problem. Its an HONOR system in most places. Those people have NO HONOR.

Issue #4 - I DON'T LIKE IT!


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## Erie Addict (Apr 12, 2004)

If ODNR or the state is hurting for money so bad, Can some one tell me why at ALum creek camp ground and other access areas (the marina) they are plowing and salting roads that are closed?
I Live very near the marina and campground, at the campground 1/2 of the roads are closed from Oct. 15 untill March 15th. These roads are plowed and salted faster than most of the roads in the county. I don't get it. They to need to raise money my A$$!


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Just google up "ohio state park funding"......has been cut badly. Sounds like someone is up to no good at Alum. Blow the whistle man....someone will get barbecued for that waste.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

I see where the last 4 or so post are coming from. They just keep coming back for more. No watch dog to see where our monies are already being spent. I never looked at it that way...........If this does pass, that would be alot of money to do what with??? They say it will go towards the parks, but which ONES ??? The lake erie region again ? What about down here in the SW. You all that live around here know we get jipped when it comes to the funds......... CATKING


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## Procraftboats21 (Apr 6, 2004)

I talked with the park manager at Beaver Creek last night. He said if you bought the $5 dollar pass for the day you could visit all 74 parks with it that day and not have to buy a new one just because you went to a different park. The $25 dollar pass is good at anypark, anytime with unlimted use for the year.


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

I like the idea of no taxes and a fee for everything...that way if you want to stay in your trailer and never leave you don't have to pay anything...

....seriously though - there are good points on all sides but the truth of the matter is that almost all other states do this...if you could be reasonably satisfied that the dollars will stay in the park system I can't see how you could be against it. As far as most of it going on the honor system that is laughable....

...finally, as per the earlier Englishman comment - no German- and yes rich people eat better than poor people - that extends to everything - as it should. Otherwise, why be rich. If you are poor and logging onto a fishing website at the library YOU NEED TO WORK MORE rather than surfing the web.


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Seriously though, I don't like being nickle and dimed to death - for anything. I already pay:

- Hunting License with Deer tags and stamps for waterfowl and turkey
- Fishing License
- Boat Registration
- Boat Trailer Registration
- State Income Tax

All of which a portion goes to the state, who has NOT - I Repeat - NOT spent my money in a fiscally responsible manner. Why should I give them more money to spend in a fiscally irresponsible manner? Thats like approving a big fat loan for somebody with a bad credit history. IT DOESN"T MAKE SENSE.

I don't care if "EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT." That has never been an excuse for me, nor has it ever made sense. 

But seriously though, you can support it if you want.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2005)

Hell, I'm rich. Why not charge everyone $5. Whats $5 to the Sheephead Master? $5 ain't s**t to me! 

Just Kidding. I really think the state is doing it to keep these groups of guys out of the parks who go there to love on each other in the bushes.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

If this BS thing goes through then they should *NOT* be allowed to spend every red nickle that comes in and place a good chunk into a *RAINEY DAY FUND* that can not be touched unless a levy is passed with a statewide vote or something along that line of thinking... but no what will hap'n is they will over spend themselves and either give us a fistfull of cutbacks again or tell us to pay a little more  then all of us who said *NO *will tell you we told you so...
How can you possibly trust them with such a large influx of cash when they could and cannot manage what they have now*??  *


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## Procraftboats21 (Apr 6, 2004)

did you guys know that just 2 rangers monitor Beaver Creek, Guilford, Jefferson and Quail Hollow? The state cut way way back on the parks funding.


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## Chuck P. (Apr 8, 2004)

The $25 annual fee should INCLUDE my fishing license at least...

This crap has got to stop somewhere.


So, if the fees go through and in a year or so, nothing changes, are they gonna ask for and get $50 a year? $75 a year?? Where does it end??


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## Pete Moss (Apr 10, 2004)

> Once it starts it will only get worse for the future. Besides our state has allready proved they can't manage the money so why would I want to give them more?


 The state of Ohio has for the last 10-15 yrs doubled almost every fee for sportsmen. Always with the promise that things will be made better for the sportsmen. I have yet to see this happen. Camping fees have gone up, as has hunting, fishing licenses and all other outdoor related items. If I am not mistaken the budget for the ODNR has gone up every year, but the Div. of Wildlife's budget has gone down. Explain that one to me.
I would trust a politician about as far as I could throw a Lawyer.


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## crappiebub (Apr 5, 2004)

http://www.jcarr.state.oh.us/

The Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review

Rep. Scott Oelslager
Chair
Office: RC 13th Fl
614/752-2438

Rep. Merle G. Kearns
Office: RC 13th Fl
614/466-2038

Rep. Keith Faber
Office: RC 13th Fl
614/466-6344

Rep. Fred Strahorn
Office: RC 10th Fl
614/466-2960

Rep. Kenneth A. Carano
Office: RC 10th Fl
614/466-6107


Sen. Jay Hottinger
Vice Chair
Office: Sen 1st Fl
614/466-5838

Sen. Robert Schuler
Office: Sen 2nd Fl
614/466-9737

Sen. Tim Grendell
Office: Sen Gnd Fl
614/644-7718

Sen. Charles Wilson
Office: Sen 2nd Fl
614/466-6508

Sen. Kimberly Zurz
Office: Sen Gnd Fl
614/466-7041


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

And here are their emails. 

Dear Bob:
Listed below are the members of JCARR along with their e-mail addresses. If I can provide any further assistance, feel free to contact my office. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Jon A. Husted
Speaker
Ohio House of Representatives

JCARR Members and their e-mail addresses:
Representative Scott Oelslager: [email protected] 
Representative Merle Grace Kearns: [email protected]
Representative Keith Faber: [email protected]
Representative Fred Strahorn: [email protected]
Representative Kenneth Carano: [email protected]

Senator Jay Hottinger: [email protected]
Senator Robert Schuler: [email protected]
Senator Timothy Grendell: [email protected]
Senator Charles Wilson: [email protected]
Senator Kimberly Zurz : [email protected]


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Now we can all email them using one email and adding the others as CC or BCC on the original email THANKS


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Here is the email letter I will send them all:
Dear JCARR Member...
I would like to voice my highest concerns about the following:
"ODNR PROPOSES PARKING PASSES AT OHIOS 74 STATE PARKS"
As a tax payer of this great state it is my concern that again we are working at over taxing an already tax strapped base that can no longer approve the justification of the proposal concerning state park funding. As a hunter and fisherman who also owns a boat I have paid my fair share and demand that those of us like me be made non-compliant to any and all fees to enjoy the great park system that we already have sustained via license fees and taxes. 
PLEASE kill in Committee "Pay to Park" plans concerning the above matter...
THANK YOU... a concerned outdoors man
Clyde J. Burrie Jr.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Use as main email address:
[email protected] 
Copy paste to add to your CC or BCC section of your email:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Notice the commas above which will ensure your email will be sent


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## Fishyguy (Apr 10, 2004)

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. Leave to Ohio to come up with something so stupid. Anyone who would pay this is out of their mind. The 19.00 fishing license is too much if you ask me. Most bordering states have atleast one or 2 lakes/rivers that are nationally known for great fishing, but not Ohio. When was the last time someone took vacation days and made a trip to this state for our great fishing?? The management of our fisheries stink in comparion to other states. They waste our money as it is with promises of better fishing etc, and it never happens. Ohio stinks, so does the ODNR and so does this proposal, they just keep making this state and it's parks/fisheries worse.


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## Chuck P. (Apr 8, 2004)

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

[email protected]
[email protected]


Bad addresses??


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I am agaisnt this big time, some else hit the nail on the head: This is the straw that broke the cammels back:

They increased my hunting lic, my deer tags, my turkey tags, my fishing lic...... For those that are saying its not much money, your nuts. I guess I dont live in the lap of luxury you folks do. I am 27 w/ 3 kids & a wife, we live pay check to paycheck. For those of you that are saying, all states are doing this, I agree most states are charging for their parks, however most states are not increasing EVERYTHING to do a/ hunting & fishing.

Another thing, please stop & think why Ohio parks are the #3 most visited: We're what like #5 or #6 in state population? Other states above us have mass population in large cities. We have Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland as our big 3. Columbus is w/in an hour drive to Hocking Hills, a # of lakes, etc.., Cincinnati has what flowing right through it?, yes the Big "O", Cleveland is where, oh yes on Lake Erie. While it's true that Ohio ranks high on the list, please consider this LOCATION!

Oh one more thing, For those of you that say I shouldnt fish or hunt if I can tafford the extra, PM me & I will be more than happy to give you my address. If the increase isnt a big deal I'll let you pay for my familes fees. they are broken down below:

Bryan-Hunting $4 increase, 2 Deer Tags $8 increase, 2 Turkey Tags $8 increase, Fall Turkey $4 increase, fishing, $4 increase + $25 Parks Pass

Jenny-Hunting $4 increase, 2 Deer Tags $8 increase, Single Turkey $4 increase, fihing, $4 increase, + possiblly another $25 pass, that way she can take the kids while I'm gone to a diff park.

Thats $48-$98, depending if we must get 2 passes!


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Whopps I forgot to mention something:

In my own irratated ******* opinon I think another reason our park system is visited so much: THE FREE PLACE TO GO! For instance a guy like me, I could spend the day @ a festival, or carival, or Kings Island, etc... but that costs tons of $, if I take my family to a "FREE" Ohio Park, then I am able to buy my family other things like food & diapers for the kids, etc...

As soon as I get to work, my email will be sent.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Master Angler, can you clear some things up for me? 
Just beacuse someone doesnt have the $ to pay for these type of activities doesnt mean they dont have a good job. I make decent $ @ my job, but I have a family of 5. From the way you speak, I'm assuming your single, or married w/out children, am I right? As for the free license to seniors, I think it has to do more w/ RESPECT. These people have been active members of society for quite a long time, I agree 100% allow them to enjoy these activities for free. How do you feel about allowing active military folks to hunt/fish for free?


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Bravo H20 Mellon, Bravo! I'm happy to see I'm not the only one.


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## Row v. Wade (Apr 27, 2004)

Contrary to some misconceptions here, most people I know live on a budget. The ends have to meet. The argument that if you are unable to afford it, you should get another job or do without, just doesn't fly with me. 
Should we give up more time away from our families just to compensate for the increase in everything? Meds, insurance, school levies, grocery bills, gas prices, road taxes, this list is endless. Everything is on the raise. Maybe working 15 hours a day with no time to raise the children is the answer for some. Where does that leave the children? How bout family time? With all the extra time working, there's no need to pay for the park fees because there'll be no extra time to utilize the parks. All spare time will be eaten up working.
Will the $25 bucks a year make or break someone's budget? Most likely not. It's all the other increases piled together that will.
Sometimes enough is enough.


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

I thought if that too, Row Vs. Wade. I just never put it in words. Very well put.


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## Pete Moss (Apr 10, 2004)

Here is a copy of the letter that I sent to all reps. on the list:

Honorable Senator Hottinger,

I would like to voice my displeasure to the impending legislation that would charge a five dollar a day parking fee at state parks. Fees to outdoorsmen have steadily increased over the last ten years, with no apparent end in sight.

We are always told that the fee increases are necessary to improve outdoor facilities.

I have seen some improvements in the state parks as far as camping facilities improving, but the increase in camping fees was supposed to handle these improvements.

I believe the State of Ohio is, and has been for some time, fiscally irresponsible.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

I personally dont think that the yearly fee is unreasonable. In fact, I think that it would be a barging for an improved park system.

However, I dont trust the ODNR! I dont like the way that they spend our license fee money. I dont like their catch and keep focused stocking program (more to the point their inability to develop and maintain trophy fisheries). I dont like their fishing for food based regulations on bass, smallies, and cats. I dont like that they seem to have forgotten that there are other bodies of water outside of Lake Erie.

So, while I do not think that a nominal fee for an improved park system would be a bad idea in general, I know that I will never see any improvements for my money.


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## catlover (Dec 7, 2004)

One thing I'm worried about. Given the classic bureaucratic mindset-They would be much quicker, and therefore more likely to earmark funds to hire untrained "monitors" to enorce parking regulations thereby detracting from their ability to provide skilled and knowledgable professionals to do the job that they are really there to do in the first place.
You do the math.

Catz


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Great poitns Rooster. I too am a Smallie guy, espically in small creeks. If I go anywhere in SW ohio & catch a 14 inch Smallie, I'm excited. It would be nice to see the state pay attention to us a little rather than the mighty Lake Erie. I knwo more $ is raised there, but I pay the same license as they do. They get their $ worth. Shoot if you want to be fair, raise their lic to $40. & cut mine to $10.


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## Fastlane (Apr 11, 2004)

I guess I am split on this topic. I have been to other states with pay per use and seasonal fees. I did not object to it. I found that it was a real bargain for the experience of exploring new areas and seeing things I may never see again. Arizona is a prime example, petrified forrest, grand canyon, organ pipe catus national park, lake powell, and many other places I visited while out there over the past 7 years. Am I wealthy? Heck no, I too have a family of 5 and live paycheck to paycheck. But I found these places to be a bargain in comparison to fairs, amusement parks, carnivals, etc. One day at Kings Island is $300 or more. A day at the county fair or state fair is an easy $100. 

On the other hand, I pay taxes and license fees for myself, my wife, my oldest daughter. I too feel the crunch when March 1st comes every year but again, I feel that it is money well spent. My experience at our state parks has been ok but I have noticed an increase in litter, vandalism, reduced patrol, less maintenece such as mowing and trimming. Our money seems to be goign to the wrong areas and mismanaged. If the additional money for "parking" is going to correct the neglect and clean our parks up to improve the experience and saftey, I am for it. But if it is just another way to get into our pockets without seeing any possitive results forget it. 

I can't remember who it was but I remember reading a post last year about a couple guys fishing @ Paint Creek and being robbed at knife point then having their tires slashed. I am quite sure that they would like to see more patrol around our parks. 

At any rate, if they want to impose the fees, they will. Let's just hope they keep it reasonable and use the money for our benefit. If this happens, I guess we will all become "paylakers" LOL.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Where you guys get your information to arrive at some of these conclusions I've been reading???

I have to ask, On what basis should the one license be $40 and your's $10?????

Please explain.

Thanks,
Kim


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

> If the additional money for "parking" is going to correct the neglect and clean our parks up to improve the experience and saftey, I am for it.


Thats a given with most everyone here...
The question remains are they to be trusted with the extra influx of funds or will the money go down the tubes in some time frame...

I see them purchasing new vehicles because they have allot of miles on them *NOT *because the need replaced... 
For the use they put their vehicles through there is no need to purchase new ones unless it is fiscally needed such as replacing ones that no longer do the job they were intended to do *NOT* because they can be replaced becasue new funds are available.... if you get my drift...

I can't see why on earth we are putting snowshoe hares in some NE Ohio Counties when that money could be better spent in other areas... 
Same as the river otters they brought in... 
Is the time and money worth the effort? 
Now it will become legal to trap river otters because they are cleaning out the ponds of local residents... Now they have become a subtraction not an addition... 
ODNR waste alot of money let them clean up their act before cleaning out our pockets...


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

You know I am for this, and yes we do pay with the purchase of hunting and fishing license..However, what about the people who pay nothing hikers, poeple having pick nicks, family reuinons etc..This will now force them to help and pay for the up keep of these parks..Not just the hunters and fishermen. After all they use them also.


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## Marshall (Apr 11, 2004)

I guess i have two throw in my feelings on this also. I am willing to bet barely any of the money will go back into the parks. It will go to the general fund to be blown on some well i better not even get into what im thinking. I also bet it will be mostly a launch fee more than a parking fee. The "problem people" don't usually stay long at boat ramps. They go in, break in a truck steal someones stuff and are gone. No fee payed and no one there to see if they have a pass. Same with the funny type people just stopping in for a quick (god who knows what those people do) and then they are gone. Again no pass needed no one there to see if they have one as they drive in to the park and launch area because they , the parks cant afford to staff someone to do this. For these type people to get caught , one of the few rangers would have to just happen to drive up to collect the money of course and maybe see a car with no pass. Good people stop driving and pull in to eat lunch to take a break, they may be there only 10 to 20 minutes ,will they be paying for a pass, i doubt it unless there is a ranger in that lot. I could go on and on. I really don't like the fee, but like to fish so will pay it. But don't be suprised when we pay 25 this year that our parks will be a better place next year or it will keep out the bad people, it just won't happen. Again I feel this will be more of a Launch fee than anything else. All yea I forgot wait till the theives steal the money from the honor boxes.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

(I wasnt serious about teh $40. vs. $10.) I was just comapring that w/ the amount of $ that gets put into Lake Errie vs. Southwest Ohio.-Not meant to be serious.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

I sents emails and have one reply to date:


Please send me your home address so that Rep. Oelslager can send you a
letter of response.

Thank you!

Jenny R. Lewis
Aide to Representative Scott Oelslager
District 51, Ohio House of Representatives
614.466.9047 Office
614.466.9494 Facsimile


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## bubbahunter (Apr 6, 2004)

I will pay $155 in licenses and tags for the 2005 season.I have no kids and my wife buys her fishing licence every year and only goes about 5 times a year,thats $174 a year we pay in fees. The guys that have a large family can`t afford the already growing cost to enjoy the outdoors in our park system and to put another fee on top of that is nuts.Guys like H20 bust their butt to provide a decent life for their family and the park system is a exellent way to get the kids out in the outdoors at no charge and putting another fee on top of lifes other bills is just wrong. Free licences for the older generation and the handicapped is not only a good idea is is the RIGHT THING TO DO.Take a man the has hunted and fished his entire life worked and provided for his family most likely servered his country and is now retired and living on SSI, Give me one reason why he should be paying for any licence.Free licences for people on welfare...NO WAY.Give some of them one more reason to stay on welfare.Not all but some people are on welfare because they want to be, but are on it because they are to lazy to get off their but and get a job or to know how to stop having babies.If they want to put a fee on park use then put it on the people that don`t spend a dime on the outdoors.The joggers,walkers and picnicers use the parks as much as the sportmen do and have not payed anything but taxes to support them. I live in a trailer and can more than afford the $25 ayear for the fee but thats not the point , the point is if the state needs the money that bad then ,why do they pissaway so much of it to begin with?


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

> Delivery to the following recipients failed.
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> Bad addresses??


Yes they were bad for me too... 
and we want to give them more of our hard earned dollars  

Their can't even supply us with good contact info


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

> The joggers,walkers and picnicers use the parks as much as the sportmen do and have not payed anything but taxes to support them


My point exactly!


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## Row v. Wade (Apr 27, 2004)

Great thoughs on both side's.
I'm not sure where the $25 fee was originated. What if the price of the "parking pass" was reduced to the cost of a hunting or fishing license? A person who has purchsed a hunting or fishing licence is not required to purchase a "hiking pass"..."parking pass"....whatever name they want to declare for their new cash cow".


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## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

> I'm not sure where the $25 fee was originated


Good point. They need to show evidence that this is an appropriate fee. Is $25 enough? Would $10 be sufficient? What formula are they working from? Did they calculate that fewer people will use the parks because of a fee? It's a done deal anyway, no referendum, no vote, no alternatives except to pay and use or not pay and lose. I know this, those honor boxes better be big, heavy, and strong.

How about a couple scratch-offs to fund the parks. Who knows, in time it could pay for our licenses too.
In May, 1973 Legislative action and voter referendum created the Ohio Lottery
1983 -- The Ohio Legislature, in July, earmarked Lottery profits to Education.
1987 -- Voters approved a constitutional amendment to permanently earmark Lottery profits to education in November.
1988 -- House Bill 789 was passed in March, creating the Lottery Profits Education Fund. This allowed for a clear separation of Lottery revenue from the State's General Revenue fund.
1998 -- The Lottery transferred a record $723 million to the Lottery Profits Education Fund (FY '98).


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## bubbahunter (Apr 6, 2004)

the scrathch off lottery would be a good idea. i know i spend acouple hundred bucks a year on thise things.Don`t think we would ever get our licenses paid for but it would keep them from going up.


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## PoleSnatcher (Apr 6, 2004)

***i Did Not Read The Entire Thread****


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## PoleSnatcher (Apr 6, 2004)

***i Did Not Read The Entire Thread****


SPOKE TO AN employee of the sate parks and he said this is a forsure thing gonna be based on the honor system


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/news/jan05/parkspass/faq.htm
Frequently Asked Questions
Answers to Questions about the Proposed Parking Pass for Ohio State Parks 

"Through their state taxes, Ohioans provide barely one-half of the annual operating budget needed to keep Ohio State Parks open, operating and well maintained (the rest of that budget comes from campground rentals, dock fees and similar special-use fees)"
=======================================

You know what this means. 
The new TOTAL revenue for parks will remain the same after the increase.
The state tax set aside for parks will go down.
And next year they will say "Ohioans provide barely one forth of the annual operating budget...."

Actually, being a senior, I favor the fees and will get my moneys worth, but don't expect any improvements.


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## PoleSnatcher (Apr 6, 2004)

reel said:


> Actually, being a senior, I favor the fees and will get my moneys worth, but don't expect any improvements.


I don't totally aprove of the fee but neverless will continue to use the parks as a source of various recreation


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## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

bubba,
yea, it would be a great thing but I know it will prolly never happen. Best part of it would be, I don't play the lottery or scratch-offs. Everybody else would be paying for me, WILLINGLY! An ideal situation. Really, I don't mind paying for good parks. $25 per year is probably somewhere between 1 and 3 hours of wage-time for the average sportsman after taxes. If they gave me the option of 2 hours labor or service instead of the fee, I probably wouldn't do that. Still, they should account for the amount they ask.


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## Pete Moss (Apr 10, 2004)

I know people are tired of my constant posts on this thread, but I am so adamant about the bs that is happening.
I talked to a man today that has within the past 20 yrs. has donated over a half a million dollars to buy land for park preservation. He did not believe me when I told him about the proposal. He made a few phone calls, then realized I was telling the truth.
He said " Do not pay it. Take the ticket, if they issue one, and go to court. It will not hold up. It is time for the people of Ohio to draw an end to this kind extortion"
I am sure he will use his influence to get this defeated.

Honor system? There is no honor among politicians.


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## bubbahunter (Apr 6, 2004)

I know why it wouldn`t work...because it makes since.But if it does with what i spend a year on them things i think i got your part covered.lol I still blame Taft and the rest of those slugs for not being able to manage the state budget properly.sooner we get them out of office the better off we will be. but thats just me.


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

Ok guys enough cutting down lawyers remember its only the 99% of them giving the rest of them a bad reputation.
I have a well paying job but would like to work for those of you who are in favor of this fee. Hire me and pay me whatever.I promise to be totally fiscally irresponsible and threaten to cut my services to you unless you pay this new ( lets not say salary ) fee.While not improving my job performance a whit , I keep thinking of new ways to increase the money you pay to me. I also promise to be long on promises and shorter and shorter on delivery .If interested PLEASE send me an application ASAP.Will post how many responses I get for active employment.


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Dear Sirs,
JCARR is expected to hold a hearing regarding this proposal on March 7, 2005. There will be a public hearing on February 12, 2005, at 1:00 p.m. at the Ohio Historical Society (Interstate 71 and 17th Avenue) regarding the Parks Pride Pass. This will be an opportunity for members of the public to hear from the Department of Natural Resources about the proposal and get a chance to voice their views on the proposal directly to the department.

My understanding is that the General Assembly has no say in whether or not the Ohio Department of Natural Resources recommends the Parks Pride Pass fee. However, the proposal will be under review by the Joint Commission on Agency Rule Review, or JCARR, in the near future. I find it confusing that our legislators are not in control of our State assets and its agencies. Perhaps you can offer an explanation of who in our government does control ODNR, and how/why the voters and their elected officials have been removed from such decisions. 

As an enthusiastic Ohio outdoorsman, I would appreciate an understanding of the changes in our State Parks funding lines and budgets. I would like to understand why our State budget does not include sufficient funds for our State Parks. And why such a well known chronic budget problem has been ignored.

I would also ask that my point of view be represented by our JCARR members. The Parks Pride Passes appear to be a couple of things. Number one, they represent a brand new fee to many less frequent Ohio Park users that have not previously provided any support whatsoever through fees and licenses. Number two, they represent an additional burden to active Ohio Park users that already support the Parks through rental fees, camping, boating, fishing license, hunting license, boating registrations, and many other associated permit fees. The point of view that I ask for representation is to consider providing Parks Pride Passes at no charge to our Parks system users that already provide a substantial support via their chosen outdoor activities in State Parks. I would also have you consider a volunteer based system, since the notion just might backfire and keep many residents away from the parks. They might instead seek the "no-cost" county and city park systems, that for the most part, are equipped better and offer more economical facilities.....ones that have been maintained as valuable assets to the local governments. I would ask that the State Government accept responsibility for "Pride" in our State Parks, by requiring the residents to support through increased centralized budget allocation. That's what local governments have done to maintain and improve their parks.

Again, thank you for your concern. And thank you for your dedication to our government. The Ohio State legislators must gain an appreciation for our State Parks and provide adequate funding and oversight of the spending plans and budgets. As residents, we expect our State's assets to be managed with some central controls for the common good, and hopefully the JCARR can provide this influence.

Sincerely,
Robert W. Guyton
Dayton, Ohio


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## BIGG MAN (Apr 11, 2004)

There will be a public hearing on February 12, 2005, at 1:00 p.m. at the Ohio Historical Society (Interstate 71 and 17th Avenue) regarding the Parks Pride Pass. This will be an opportunity for members of the public to hear from the Department of Natural Resources about the proposal and get a chance to voice their views on the proposal directly to the department. so how many of us is going to show up i know a lot people will be at work at that time but i will be there who esle plan going


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

bubbahunter said:


> The joggers,walkers and picnicers use the parks as much as the sportmen do and have not payed anything but taxes to support them.





flathunter said:


> My point exactly!


Mine too!!!!


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

How many here have actually emailed, wrote or phoned someone to voice thier concerns or approval?


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## bubbahunter (Apr 6, 2004)

I was told that Kieth Fader will be at our Pheasents forever dinner saturday night.If so i will voice my concerns with him there. If he is a no show i`ll E-mail and call his office on monday.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Doing it today, I didnt want ot yesterday, 'cuse my good ole ******* anger would ahve came out.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I have fired off numerous e-mails.

My stated position in them is that anyone that has a fishing license or boat registration be exempt at any park that has a boat ramp(s)

All other parks (without boat ramps) no exemption , everybody pays

This to me would distribute the cost burden more fairly between all of the user groups.

Kim


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

That sounds very fair............ CATKING


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## truck (Apr 12, 2004)

All I can say is that I use our parks alot,if I have to pay to get in I will.There are alot of people that don,t pay anything to use them,maybe now they will


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

January 28, 2005

Dear Mr. Guyton:
Thank you for your letter. I will be sure to pass it on to Rep. Carano. You make some interesting suggestions here, and I will be sure that he considers them.
You presented a number of questions in your letter about why ODNR has proposed $5 parking fees at the state parks. In response, I am enclosing an article, which I believe provides many of the answers to your questions. I hope you will find this helpful.
Sincerely,
Sara Hall Phillips
Aide to State Representative Ken Carano
59th Ohio House District ~ Parts of Mahoning County
(614) 466-6107

------------------------------------------
OHIO REPORT
Information Pertinent to Legislative and State Department Activities Since 1906
REPORT NO. 5, VOLUME 74-- FRIDAY, JANUARY 7 2005
UNDER CONTINUED BUDGET CRUNCH, ODNR SEEKS PARKING FEE AUTHORITY FOR STATE PARKS THROUGH RULE PROCESS
Lawmakers may not like the Department of Natural Resources plan to initiate $5 daily parking fees at state parks, but they probably can't stop it either, a key lawmaker said Friday.

That's because Governor Bob Taft's administration is employing a somewhat unique route in seeking what amounts initially to an estimated $3 million annual boost to the agency's budget. Instead of the usual avenue for fee proposals - the biennium budget process - ODNR has filed a rule change request with the legislature's Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review.

Senator Jay Hottinger (R-Newark), the immediate past chairman of JCARR who will serve as co-chair when the panel is reformed for the 126th General Assembly, said he and other legislators aren't happy with the plan.

"You're not going to find a single member of JCARR who's going to stand up and cheer in support of this," Senator Hottinger said.

But because ODNR appears to have the statutory authority to impose the fees by rule, the review committee's hands would be tied. Under state law, JCARR only has a handful of reasons that members can employ to invalidate rules, such as whether or not a proposal runs afoul of legislative intent.

"It is not uncommon for policy decisions to come before us that we don't like. Unfortunately, that is not a prong for invalidation," Senator Hottinger said. "I don't want to say we're a rubber stamp committee, but in essence that's what it is" if state law permits such a change.

The lawmaker said he plans to take a closer look at state law in that regard and in the meantime will keep trying to discourage the plan. "Sometimes you can rattle your saber enough that you have an impact," he said.

Senator Hottinger added that he's concerned other agencies may pursue the administrative route to fee increases in avoiding more stringent legislative oversight.

ODNR Director Sam Speck said one of the reasons the change is sought through JCARR, which has 90 days to consider a rule, is that the agency wants to impose the fees before the summer recreation season kicks in. The biennium budget won't go into effect until July 1.

To encourage support for the plan, a reluctant Director Speck has met with Senator Hottinger and other legislative leaders. "We're not very enthusiastic about it either," he said, but the agency has little choice to prevent further deterioration of park service and upkeep.

Mr. Speck has pointed to an ongoing budget crunch that has led to extensive staff reductions and the closing of certain park areas - moves that undermine Ohio's nationally recognized system of public parks. (See Gongwer Ohio Report, July 28, 2004)

"This is, from our perspective, a choice that you make very reluctantly," Mr. Speck said. "We've tried to avoid it by working hard in reducing management" and pursuing other cost-saving measures, such as recruiting more volunteers. He noted that more than 60% of respondents to a 2002 Ohio Poll said they would support certain park fees.

Senator Hottinger said he was told by the agency that the initial $3 million in annual revenues is expected to rise to an estimated $10 million in later years, presumably as the system becomes more effective. He didn't get a clear answer when he asked if the fees could be avoided if lawmakers found the funds during the budget process, he said. "I just don't think that much money is worth the problems it's going to cause."

Given the last few budget cycles and continued fiscal pressures on state government, Mr. Speck said he didn't see many reasons to be optimistic that ODNR would be in line for any budget increases in the near term. He said park visitors would put the fees, which for an annual rate would cost less than taking a family of four to a movie, in perspective.

"When you put it in the context of what you're getting and what you otherwise might be losing, it's not such a bad thing," Mr. Speck said.

Governor Taft backed the proposal because of the state's continuing budget challenge, spokesman Orest Holubec said. "He believes it's a better alternative to closing parks."

ODNR spokesman Jim Lynch said the agency already has cut its parks staff by 22% since 2000 to 490 employees. He said ODNR's overall budget has grown only 2% in the last five years and that amounts to a reduction when considering inflationary pressures and mandated spending on personnel and other areas.

"In recent years, more and more of the state's budget has been allocated to Ohio's other needs," Mr. Speck said. "The 'Parks Pride Pass' will help fill that gap, ensuring that Ohio families will continue to enjoy the level of service they have come to know in their state parks."

The proposal would allow the agency to issue $5 daily passes and sell 12-month passes for $25. Out-of-state visitors would pay $6 a day and $30 annually, and Golden Buckeye Card holders $4 and $20, respectively.

At the busiest parking areas, park staff will have passes available for motorists. Mr. Lynch said the agency initially plans to place 480 "pipe safes" at other relatively high-use parking areas around the state. A visitor would place the money in an envelope stored with the safes and put a stub in their car to signal they had paid.

In the first year or so, "It's going to be a lot on the honor system here," Mr. Lynch said. "Once people become comfortable with it, we'll step up enforcement." He said the agency plans to eventually issue fines to visitors who shirk the fees.

ODNR said 44 other states currently charge parking fees at state parks. Ohio has had free parking for the entire 56-year history of its park system.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

... so in a nutshell the ODNR should be doing as other agencies are doing
-->more with less not less with less<--
The $$$ that is being talked about 


> Senator Hottinger said he was told by the agency that the initial $3 million in annual revenues


divide 3 million by the 74 state parks equals a meager $40,540.54 per park and is not even enough to cover 2 salaries let alone make any major improvements  

If anyone still thinks that they will only stick by the $5.00 and $25.00 fees then your very pessimistic at best and must think the next statement is as good as gold...


> annual revenues is expected to rise to an estimated $10 million in later years, presumably as the system becomes more effective


I say *NOT  *




THANKS for the post


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## capt-hook (Apr 27, 2004)

I agree to disagree. I agree a boat and fishing license shouild
give one access to ramps and parking. As I assume ramps 
and parking repair and maint. came from fishing licences and
boat licences. I`m probaly wrong  Even if they don`t do
a bang up job on the formentioned. I dis agree about charging 
fees to seniors. Most of whom are on fixed income. You cannot
fathom what that means until you fit that discription. 
No matter how much we bit-h the boys are gonna do what
they want on this issue. And look at the feather in those 
politicians hats for creating all those new jobs of gate watchers
etc. Also who wants to bet that the majority of them will
be new immigrants  

Capt-Hook


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Just rec'd a snail mail from Samual W. Speck Director is his titale and since this was wrote on ODNR Letter Head I'm going to step out on a limb and say he is their director  

He THANKS me for my concern and after a few bla bla blahs he gets to the point that the state budget will no longer allow for the upkeep of Ohio State Parks and is needed to keep the parks functional, fully open (is that a threat?) and usable by the public...

I am tired of the BS man as I stated earlier how can each park really improve when you divide 3 million (their stated influx of cash) by the 74 state parks equals a meager $40,540.54 per park which can only improve someones pocket not the overall quality of each park... 

...and yes seniors should not pay a single red cent....


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## Reel Man (Jul 4, 2004)

I honestly don't have enough information to really form an opinion. I'm certain it takes a lot more money then any of us realize to keep the parks/lakes in excellent condition. Just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head...
Up keep of parking areas
Garbage removal
Bathroom supplies/cleaning/maintenance
Patrols/enforcement
Stocking of lakes
Boat ramp maintenance
Lawn keeping
Ecology (this would include monitoring and testing water, fish numbers, wildlife numbers)
Structural maintenance (covered bridges and so on)
I'm certain this is only the tip of the iceberg. Does the state have enough money to properly maintain everything? I kind of doubt it. I would certainly be in favor of a parking fee and leaving the license fees alone. That would spread the expense of maintaining our parks and waterways across a larger number of people. I am curious now and want to look into the annual cost for the up keep of these things and how much money is currently in the budget to do it. By the way I have to agree with those who have said it. The seniors should be exempt.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I do believe this is a done deal now.


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## weaz43 (Apr 17, 2004)

I'm all for it. I'll probably get the annual pass. Will the visible pass be something that you'll hang from your rear-view mirror? I don't think people should be able to move the pass from car to car, person to person.


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Atrkyhntr,
I think we got very similar letters....I had one in today's mail. It is signed by Glen Alexander for Samuel Speck, the ODNR Director. It states that my comments (in my email to them) will be included as part of the official record of the upcoming public hearing. He states that the general revenue is shrinking at the same time that operating expenses are increasing. I can't argue with that, even my own energy costs are through the roof this year - gasoline, electricity, and natural gas all way up there with no increase in consumption.
There might be some hope that the fee payers like us will be exempt.


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## JIG (Nov 2, 2004)

I Talked To The Game Warden Of Mahoning And He Said Its A Done Deal. He Did Inform Me That The 88 Causeway At Mosquito And Some Of The Other Non Park Related Areas Would Not Be Affected.
As Well As The Night Bite.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Ohio State Parks will hold a public hearing at 1 p.m. on Saturday, February 12, at the Ohio Historical Center, Interstate 71 and 17th Ave., in Columbus to accept public comment on the proposed rules.

Nothing has passed anywhere...

But it seems that not enough people have contacted anyone to voice their displeasure over the fees to overturn what will be another hand in our pocket unaccounted for...


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Reply I just rec'd



Dear Mr. Burrie,

Thank you for your email. Senator Grendell is opposed to any move to 

charge admission or parking fees at state parks.



Unfortunately, the ODNR has made the decision to make this change via its 

internal rule-making authority. JCARR members cannot "kill" the rules in 

the way that a piece of legislation can be killed in a normal standing 

legislative committee. The Agency has, in effect, found a way to avoid 

legislative review of the fee issue. JCARR can only move to invalidate rules 

in one of 4 instances. Those are that the Rule was not filed properly 

(this one was), if it conflicts with the intent of the legislature (difficult 

to prove), if it conflicts with another rule (it does not seem to), or if 

it exceeds the scope of the agencies authority (it does not). 

Unfortunately, our hands are somewhat tied.



Senator Grendell is taking the only available step to stop this from 

happening. Tomorrow he will be introducing legislation that will explicitly 

prevent the ODNR from charging an admission or parking fee at a state park. 

We fear that the only chance this bill has of making it through the 

legislative process is if there is overwhelming grassroots support of the issue. 

For the most part, Ohio's newspapers have been silent or supportive of the 

parking fee. For that reason, we are encouraging everyone who contacts 

our office to contact his or her state representative and state senator and 

urge them to oppose the DNR parking fees. You may also want to urge that 

your friends, family, and colleagues do the same. Another option is to 

write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. You can also contact 

Governor Taft and Director Speck to voice your opposition to the rule.



Thank you in advance for your support. If our office can provide any 

additional information, please do not hesitate to contact us!

Sincerely,

Beth



Beth Vanderkooi

Legislative Aide

Senator Tim Grendell



Phone: 614-644-7718



Now is the time to speak up!!!



Senator Grendell is taking the only available step to stop this from 
happening. Tomorrow he will be introducing legislation that will explicitly 
prevent the ODNR from charging an admission or parking fee at a state park. 
We fear that the only chance this bill has of making it through the 
legislative process is if there is overwhelming grassroots support of the issue. 
For the most part, Ohio's newspapers have been silent or supportive of the 
parking fee. For that reason, we are encouraging everyone who contacts 
our office to contact his or her state representative and state senator and 
urge them to oppose the DNR parking fees. You may also want to urge that 
your friends, family, and colleagues do the same. Another option is to 
write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. You can also contact 
Governor Taft and Director Speck to voice your opposition to the rule.


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## JIG (Nov 2, 2004)

I SEEN TWO OR THREE DAYS AGO WERE THEY ARE CUTTING THE COUNTY 
FUNDING ON PATROLS AROUND MOSQUITO LAKE  AND THE TOWNSHIPS ARE TAKING UP THE SLACK.  THE PUBLICS QUESTIONING THE DNR ABOUT THERE ROLE IN PATROL.  THIS IS JUST IN SAY 40 COUNTYS
AT ONE LAKE. SOUNDS LIKE ITS AFFECTING MORE THAN THE FISHERMAN.
JUST MY THOUGHTS!


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Dear Mr. Burrie:

Thanks for writing Senator Jordan about the parks. Senator Jordan just 
co-sponsored legislation to stop this. It will be introduced by Senator Tim 
Grendell today.

Please feel free to write again anytime.

___________________________
TOM SIMMONS, Legislative Aide
Office of Senator Jim Jordan
Statehouse; Columbus, OH 43215
[email protected]
Phone: 614-466-7584

***********************************************************

I totally agree with you and have sent a letter to the Governor condemning 
this practice of bypassing the legislators elected by the taxpayers to 
make the decisions we were elected to do.

Bob Hagan
Youngstown


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

February 3, 2005

Dear Mr. Burrie,

Thank you for your letter concerning the ODNR's proposal to impose
parking fees on all of the state parks. You are among dozens of Ohioans
to contact me with your objections to this proposal. 

The Governor and officials at ODNR are using political loopholes to
circumvent the legislative branch, and I know that a number of
legislators - myself included - are not happy about the proposed parking
fees. We understand the additional burden that these fees will place
upon the public, and many of us have already openly objected to them.

Sometime in the next couple of months, this proposal will come before
the Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review (JCARR). As a member of
JCARR, I will have the opportunity to voice my opposition and to vote on
this issue. I plan to register a "no" vote on the imposition of parking
fees.

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns. Please don't
hesitate to contact me if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Ken Carano
State Representative
59th Ohio House District ~ Parts of Mahoning County


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

I got a similar response. I'm glad that somebody out there is looking out for our interests as well. YOUDAMAN CLYDE!


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

> You are among dozens of Ohioans
> to contact me with your objections to this proposal


I like the above and hope they get tons...


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

...rest assured if I do I will post same...
Time is running out write call email someone about your concerns...

Mr. Burrie,

Thank you for e-mailing our office. Senator Wilson has read your e-mail
and asked that I reply.

The senator agrees with your position regarding the $5 parking fee for
state parks. As a small businessman, Senator Wilson understands that
when revenue slows down, you do not raise prices to make up the
difference. Rest assured, he plans on voicing his opposition to this
rule. If you have any other questions regarding this, or any other
issue, please feel free to contact our office.

Thank you,
Ani Fete
Office of State Senator Charlie Wilson
(614) 466-6508
[email protected]


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## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

On the news this morning The ACLU is looking into a lawsuite for the citizens of Ohio. The problem is that there is a basis for this fee already in affect. The corp. of enginers already charges, in most states, a fee to launch boats in water that is under their control. I agree that if we send in enough letters or emails to our senators that we could make a difference.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

You can find your state Senator here.


http://www.senate.state.oh.us/senators/SenateZipSearch.html


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Copy/Paste this one 1st [email protected]
then the others in your BBC section of the email this way your email will not be rejected as SPAM  and you'll have contacted everyone  

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Dear Mr. Burrie,

Thank you for your letter regarding the proposed parking fee at our state 
parks. I understand your position and agree that a parking fee will 
hinder patron's enjoyment of our beautiful state parks. 

The proposed legislation has yet to be released, however upon its release 
I encourage you to monitor its status by visiting 
www.legislature.state.oh.us As the legislation is reviewed, I will be sure to keep your concerns 
in mind.

Again, thank you for your letter. If you have any further questions or 
concerns regarding this or any other state issue, please feel free to 
contact my office.


Kindest Regards,


Kevin Coughlin
State Senator	
27th District


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

In reference to # 62 on this post . Why have none of you sent me a job application ?
That is the ones who favor this parking fee. All of you seem to have no qualms paying public employees for the performance I promised. Please go back read # 62 and fire off that application to me.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Hence the problem now days papaperch  Nobody wants to make organizations/schools/states/ whatever..be accountable for what they do with the money. Sure , at first I thought we should just do what most states do, but isn't that like following another idiot over the ledge ?? We aint freakin lemmings.I think there is enough money taken from us to go around. Just way to many hands in the till. $25 here, $50 there, after awhile, they add up to a TON of money we pay out . I'm tapped out PERIOD.... I hear " It's only $25 dollars or so" , yea but add it to the alreadys $7-$10 thousand we already pay out to crap. In the mean time some director is pulling down $100 k a year to run things........TAPPED OUT IN SW OHIO........DA KING !!!


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

> In the mean time some director is pulling down $100 k a year to run things


...and not as well as years gone by... Maybe its time for a change all the way around...


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## WoodenShips (Aug 5, 2004)

You wonder where all the money for boat and fishing license are going? Some type of pay rise must be coming up in the near future for state officials.  
This fee will probably go to another country like OUR other taxes go.....  ...I only have one park in my area which is BARKCAMP.They keep it really nice but not too many people use it like years passed.The never stock it with bass and I have seen people take so many fish that was in the slot limit that should have been released and NO ONE IS EVER THERE to check people once in a while.

I would pay it but I hope they choke on it.


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

I have held back to post on this subject....im with Flathunter...PASS THE LAW!!
I fish a few state parks a LOT through out the year and i mostly see "pleasure" visitors walking, picnicing, ect. even if it was $50 a year to my local parks i'd pay it, no problem.
If Ohio really wants to charge extra fees to make cash for the state like this PAY TO PARK fee they got from other states, then why cant they go with the flow for ALL things. Some states have an extra fee for a 3rd rod(id say $10 is good) .
If the walleye run, lake Erie as a whole and these so called other "trophy" fisheries draw anglers...charge them idiots an extra fee to partake in the fishing there. Why charge those of us who dont set foot on those waters. If walleye & LM bass are the big draw tickets, hit them with an extra fee to raise money!!Id say pick from the "gamefish" list, each specie is $5 for a year....pick which ones you will be fishing for and pay..if your caught keeping a specie your not "tagged" for, you get fined..simple!

I think there should be a sportsman type tag like Fl. does...if you hunt this specie, buy a stamp for that one.....each one is broken down..not grouped together like here in Ohio, heck why not break it down to districts..if you want to fish these distics, here the fee.
Im tired of paying for others in this state(like welfare...tax them, not give them more handouts from WORKING people like myself!!)


Scott


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> If the walleye run, lake Erie as a whole and these so called other "trophy" fisheries draw anglers...charge them idiots an extra fee to partake in the fishing there. Why charge those of us who dont set foot on those waters. If walleye & LM bass are the big draw tickets, hit them with an extra fee to raise money!!Id say pick from the "gamefish" list, each specie is $5 for a year


what novel idea   
let all us hundreds of thousands of "IDIOTS" who fish for all those fish you don't fish for,in places you don't fish,buy our bluegill,crappie,LM bass,walleye,perch,saugeye,trout,white bass,etc stamps,and then pay more fees to fish all those "trophy" waters for them 
makes sense to me


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

No need to use the word " Idiot " River Rat. Read the TOS rules again. CATKING.


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## JIG (Nov 2, 2004)

Why Is There Two "spots" On This Subject? Lounge Or News


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

It's not a big deal there JIG  . I'm taking you are talking about this thread which has been around for awhile, and the front page ?? ~**~


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

I see now what you are talking about JIG. All I can say is this slipped through the cracks as far as duel threads. I never noticed the one in the "News" section.  ............Thanks for pointing that one out  .CATKING


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

I will lock this thread down. If you all want to continue this , go to the " Front Page News " forums . This very topic is being discussed. Thanks JIG. CATKING


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