# Open Water Crawler Harnesses



## Hetfieldinn

I've received a few PMs from guys interested in making their own open water crawler harnesses. I thought I'd take a minute and post a few pics of the steps and materials that I use to make mine.

I start with a two foot piece of 20# Seagaur florocarbon. I tie a #4 treble hook on the end using a Trilene knot. I prefer theTrilene knot over the snell knot on the end because it keeps the hook nice and straight.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

next, I use a #2 Octopus style hook, and use the snell knot to attach it about three inches up from the treble hook.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Next is the addition of the beads and blades. Beads and blades vary. There are tons of different sizes, styles, and colors. You can add as many beads as you like. I usually run six between the blades when I make double willow leaf bladed harnesses (pictured). There are also many different sizes and styles of blade clevises available. I'm not picky about clevises, but if the molded ones are available, I choose them over the folded variety.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

For the last step, I tie on a decent quality barrell type swivel to cut down on line twist. I usually buy Spro, when available. I try and make the whole harness about a foot long.


----------



## iwdavefish

Good post. Thanks.


----------



## cw261

A quick note on the blade clevis style - Shortdrift had some last year that were a "clip on" style, and we had a problem with them popping off. If Ron reads this, maybe he can provide more info.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

I also tie the barrell swivel on with a Trilene knot


----------



## BlueMax

Het
Thanks for taking the time to offer the help and photos. I am in the process of "designing" and tying a small supply of harnesses to help get me through the winter and to assult the eyes next spring. Your input clarifies a few items for me such as hook size.
I am thinking of bringing some kielbasa and kraut to TC to help keep us warm around the fire. Hopefully thetiming works out with work and I can make the trip.
Thanks again.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

cw261 said:


> A quick note on the blade clevis style - Shortdrift had some last year that were a "clip on" style, and we had a problem with them popping off. If Ron reads this, maybe he can provide more info.



I've also had blades come up missing using the 'quick change' style clevises.


----------



## BlueMax

Gary Zart mentioned in his harness seminar at the boat show that if using the quick change clevis to make sure you put the large end on first when assembling. I believe this means that the slot on the clevis where the blade slips on would be towards the front of the harness towards the barrel swivel. This would allow the blade to stay on as it is pushed towards the hooks when running through the water.


----------



## Shawn Philbrick

Great post, nice pictures, very helpful, and they are a great way to catch a lot of walleye



and if I may add to your post:

blade style will vary results too...

the willow that is used in the pic will run a little deeper normally than a colorado, and indiana blade somewhere between the two......as well as french blades

colorados give more vibration (deeper and wider cup) and it goes backwards from there in the same order as depth running...

hammered will give more of a wobble, then fluted, then straight etc....so style matters somewhat


if you really want to "study" the effects of a blade style, check out some musky sites....those guys have done extensive blade style studies. What blade will do what.


another note.......like Hetfieldinn says, bead count doesn't really matter, but keep in mind that your blades will be seperated by them, so especially if you are using wider blade styles (like colorado) you will want to be sure they are spaced far enough apart not to interfere with one another...


and if you really want to be sure that it is travelling in a true manner, hold it by the swivel, and the treble hook, and see if it sags anywhere.....you can compensate for that by adding beads, changing bead styles or materials, or blade materials etc....
especially early in the season when trolling speeds are slower, you want them to run true...


I make mine very similar to hetfieldinn, but have a variety of blade styles.. run a few different styles at once, just like you would colors, until you find the right one for that day.


----------



## eyesman_01

Het, I just received 50 hammered copper spoon blanks. I'll be painting them up and posting soon.


----------



## marshal45

This is awesome that you posted this. Thank you very much as it is very informative as well as the responses from others. Now I just have to learn how to find the walleye....lol


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Also, I've tried every way imaginable to store harnesses. Nothing seemed to work well with the awkwardness of harnesses. Someone introduced me to the Ole' Petes harness box, JoeW maybe, and the problem was solved. They're worth their weight in gold.


----------



## K gonefishin

I use the same boxes and they work great I tie my double willows with fireline so they don't kink up when stored in the tubes and they just seem to hold up to alot more fish before they need to be retied. 

I just picked up one of these boxes below. It's by B&B bait box, a little pricey but also worth it's weight in gold, I can fit somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 harnesses per tube so that's about 126 harnesses, these are for the 4-5 ft harnesses that I use for colorado's, indiana's, dakota, and chopper blades for. This box can hold two plano's on the sides as well for keel/inline weights or blades, I'm putting lead in them. I might leave one tube for leaders so they are nice and tidy as well, I'm a super freak about everything being it's in place nice and perfect, so I love these two boxes, Het's and the B&B


----------



## blue dolphin

Worm Harnesses by far are the most deadly of techinics for positive neutral and negative walleye. Thats what i preach in all my harness seminars. If you look at all the tourney won on erie and surrounding bodies of water you will find out that 90 percent of the time they are won on some sort of harness presentation thats why i spent all my days early on in my career learning harnesses. Couple things that i would add. Depth and speed are critical in harness trolling. a tenth or two can make a huge difference in speed. After a cold front even in summer you might be doing 1.2 with a single colorado or slower. The color is the third equation but defnitley should not be over looked. remember the 3 best colors a walleye can see are chartruese orange and red in that order. if the water is dirty or dingy like chartruese and oranges by far. gold and cartruese for blades. red beads with copper blades are great and so are rainbow trout blades with pink bead if the water is cleaner. The cleaner the water the more natural the color selection. Use long leaders with dipseys like 8-10 ft this gives the harnesses a great snake action especially when doing s turns. Harness trolling takes some learning with all the different techinques and speeds but once you start learning and getting dialed in a guarantee youll like whats in your box at the end of the day. Thanks for starting the post steve i alway get excited talking about harnesses this time of year cant wait. Have fun tying up harnesses guys Im on 400 already. Nicholas get back to work lol Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## Jim Stedke

Guys, Good thread, and Het, great looking harnesses. 

About all I can add is....I put enough beads on before the first (or rear) clevis so that the end of the blade can't touch the point of the front hook. The purpose is to stop an aggressive walleye that is taking the rig deep from being smacked in the nose with the blade.


----------



## K gonefishin

400?!?! YOU get back to work Gary LOL  

I just started last night, I guess I got some catching up to do buddy. 

Talk to you soon


----------



## blue dolphin

Good point jim that guys is usually 6 beads with a #5 colorado and 7 or 8 with a # 4 willow blade. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## hearttxp

blue dolphin said:


> Good point jim that guys is usually 6 beads with a #5 colorado and 7 or 8 with a # 4 willow blade. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


Wow Blue Dolphin I thought I'd tied alot ! But you beat me for sure ! I think I am at 130 !!! I know I bought 500 BLades A while back And still have plenty !!


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Thanks for all the additional insight, guys. As I said, I pretty much just started getting into pulling harnesses seriously last season. There were times in previous seasons that I'd find an old rusty one in the box, and throw it out for the hell of it. The abundance of hungry fish the last couple of years gave me the confidence to run them on the regular basis.

I appreciate your input on the subject, as I'm sure everyone does.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

BlueMax said:


> I am thinking of bringing some kielbasa and kraut to TC to help keep us warm around the fire. Hopefully thetiming works out with work and I can make the trip.


We hope you can make it. It's sure to be a good time.


----------



## KaGee

Hey Het, Gary and Jim...

I've never had luck with the dual willow blade harnesses over here in the extreme Western Basin. And usually a single colorado is what works. What's up with that? Is there something i'm missing?


----------



## Jim Stedke

The double willow leaf harnesses simulate smelt (primary forage for central and eastern basin fish), the Colorado blades simulate shad (western basin forage). So...it's a match the hatch situation.


----------



## KaGee

Jim Stedke said:


> The double willow leaf harnesses simulate smelt (primary forage for central and eastern basin fish), the Colorado blades simulate shad (western basin forage). So...it's a match the hatch situation.


Makes total sense. I knew there had to be a reason. Thanks for the answer.


----------



## Evileye

How often do you guys retie your rigs. My problem is that after a trip
or so, I will lose a couple of fish do to the line on the harness
breaking. I have tried the plastic coated steel line, but the actions
just not the same. Using 20# test also.


----------



## K gonefishin

What kind of line are you using?, I've caught _up to _10 fish on one harness before retying, every fish you catch you HAVE to check it for abrasion, run the harness through your fingers if you feel any nicks, toss it....I don't have a rule of thumb answer I guess it depends on how beat they get while fishing with them.


----------



## silver shad

Hey guy's what size beads are you using #4-#6 ?


----------



## Jim Stedke

Line wear can be minimized by using the nylon interchangable clevises, and switching blades is a snap. These harnesses are designed to trolled behind Dipsy or jets and its a constant hour on hour torture to them. If you use folded clevises with the slightest sharp edge it will wear the leader and a lost fish is the outcome.

I have a harness that I know I've fished 8 days, including 2 different tournaments. It's likely caught over 30 fish w/ 10 of them being over 8 pounds. It's tied on 25# Seaguar flourocarbon leader material, and is still usable.

Bead size is 6mm.


----------



## goolies

What size clevis do you use with a #4 willowleaf blade or #5 colorado? For the guys who paint their own blades: Do you buy the cheaper hammered blades or the premium blades? Thanks for the help.


----------



## moondog5814

Where do you guys buy all of your supplies to make these harnesses? What kind of paint do you use to paint them? Nice job, Het. Thanks for the step by step pictures.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

I buy mine pre-painted.

There are tons of places to buy the components, Ole' Petes, Erie Outfitters, Janns Netcraft, Stamina, ect..


----------



## jjhiway

Excuse me for being ignorant....but can this be used for casting and drifting? or is this a trolling only rig?


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Anything's possible. I make it a point to drift and cast a few times each season. I've never tried the harnesses that I make for trolling. I do, however, make my own Mayfly rigs that I use on these occasions, and they work great.

So, I suppose if you put some weight in front of them, and put a single hook on the back to keep from snagging zebra mussels and such, you could get some fish on them. I don't see why not.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

These are what I use for drifting. Never had a complaint.


----------



## hearttxp

Here is what we use out west as casting harnesses. if we use bottom bouncers and drift we use ones with longer leaders and double hooks. Note no Barrle swivels used here --see the loop and bead to hold sinker. Makes for quick changing of weight and of course no twists when you have a snap swivel on the end of your line. This is nick named our Weapon by many of us out west.


----------



## ddrone

So,what is your favorite thing to put on the hook of the harnesses?

Minnow?Worm?


----------



## jshbuckeye

man oh man i have fished with harnesses for a long time and never gave em much thought other then a harness is a harness reading this was i ever wrong another great informative thread on OGF going to have to see what i can get into thanks everyone. i have 30lb pp if i dont usethat what floro carbon leader material is recommended? went back and reread 25 pound seaguar leader material


----------



## hearttxp

ddrone said:


> So,what is your favorite thing to put on the hook of the harnesses?
> 
> Minnow?Worm?


I use a small half of a worm and thread on do not leave much of a tail 1"-2" max. Of the two hook ones I use a full worm of course. I use 20# test P-line


----------



## blue dolphin

Hey guys sorry i was in Pittsbugh working a show since friday night. A couple things i would add I know alot of guys on here use fluoro to make harnesses and they work fine for dipseys and jets. I personally use 30lb braid for dispey and jet harnesses and they work great. there easier to snell with the small holes on the hooks and i have some that last a month or so before retying . the only thing i would caution on if your using glass beads not plastic they will cut through the fireline pretty quick so be careful on that. Evil eye if you switch to a single willow blade in the western basin they seem to work alot better if you want to give it try. Good to be back Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## Pike

When running a crawler harness, I assume most are running bouncers. Are you using any kind of leader from the bouncer arm to the harness. I know that when I read articles about running a harness in clear water, which Erie has on weekends that I am not there, people are sometimes running fairly long leaders. Or do they mainly run the leaders behing in-line weights, jets and dipsys.


----------



## JOE W

Pike, sometimes when i am using a worm harness i use it like a erie dearie , drifting, with a snap weight (1/2 - 1 oz.) attached to the line than the worn harness. when i am trolling i use around a 5-6' leader attached to the dipsey or diver and than the worm harness.hope this is what you were asking about!!


----------



## Hetfieldinn

I've never ran harnesses off of bottom bouncers, although that is a technique I want to try this coming season.

I run my harnesses off of my standard 6-8' leaders behing dipsys, Jets, and inline weights.


----------



## blue dolphin

Pike if your running harnesses off of bottom bouncers make a 5 to 6 foot snelled harness with 12 to 15 lb test fluoro carbon and tie it off with a small barrelll swivel which is easily attached to the bottom bouncer. There are several techiniques that harnesses are can be used . bottom bouncers are one. But dipseys, jets, inlines, snap weights, lead core and three ways with a crank are to name some others. Bottom bouncers are easy to run and can be deadly at given times especially when the fish are in the last 5 ft of the water column hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## krustydawg

Hetfieldinn said:


> I've never ran harnesses off of bottom bouncers, although that is a technique I want to try this coming season.


Ahhh, the poor mans downrigger ! 3 -4 oz. bottom bouncer with a crawler harness took the 3 biggest fish on my boat last year, as Gary said it can be deadly at times. I always run one off the corner of the boat early in the year until the white perch tell me I can't anymore.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

I had some great days running harnesses behind the XPS painted keel weights.


----------



## cw261

Sure look purty!

Sorry if you already mentioned it, but do you run a leader behind the keel weight, or attach the harness right to it?


----------



## K gonefishin

Big fish are lazy and tend to hang close or on the bottom of the lake, I've had success on bigger fish running up to 6 oz bottom bouncers in over 50 feet of water creeping at speeds under 1.5 even in the middle of summer when guys are pulling cranks and spoons at over 2.2-2.8

There are big fish everywhere you just got to fish for them!!! If you keep your fish finder in split range Zoom on the bottom you will see the slobs just laying there, wake em up with a bouncer bouncer harness combo and a tasty crawler you just might catch a few bigger fish than normal. 

As Blue Dolphin said earlier in this post 90% of lake erie tourney's are won by pulling meat, it should be no wonder as to why, all Erie pigs love crawlers and spinners...sloooow. 




krustydawg said:


> Ahhh, the poor mans downrigger ! 3 -4 oz. bottom bouncer with a crawler harness took the 3 biggest fish on my boat last year, as Gary said it can be deadly at times. I always run one off the corner of the boat early in the year until the white perch tell me I can't anymore.


----------



## K gonefishin

cw261 said:


> Sure look purty!
> 
> Sorry if you already mentioned it, but do you run a leader behind the keel weight, or attach the harness right to it?


The crawler harness should be tied to the tune of 4-6 feet long, then you attach the barrel directly to the keel/inline weight, the BPS weights already have a barrel connector on them but another ones does help to ensure you have ZERO twist in your presentation.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

cw261 said:


> Sorry if you already mentioned it, but do you run a leader behind the keel weight, or attach the harness right to it?


Chuck-I use my standard Dipsy leaders behind the XPS weights, then the harness.


BP must have ripped me off. My weights had no barell swivels on them.


Happy belated B Day to Matt, by the way.


----------



## blue dolphin

CW the same harness set up that i mentioned for bottom bouncers can be used also for inlines. Gary


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Hey Gary, would you mind shedding some light on when and why you use certain styles (colorado, indiana, or willow leaf) of blades, and what determines the sizes you use.

Are there certain 'go to' colors that you start out with, blad and bead wise?


----------



## K gonefishin

Het, You did get ripped off mine came just like the one pictured below, I take my barrel on the end of my leader and put it right on.


----------



## Pike

A couple more questions on this topic. Does the Precission Trolling Big Water edition give dive charts for the keel/in-line weights and does anyone use snap weights anymore for pulling crawlers? Thanks!


----------



## blue dolphin

Sure Steve. I believe that water temp and speed determine what blade type and size. I wll admit on Erie its a little easier to determine blade size and type than other bodies of water i fish. Number 4 and 5 colorados and indianas are my favorite size and number 4 willows are my favorite. earlier in the year lets say 48-50 degrees of water im using 4 or 5s colorados pretty slow .8 to 1.4 mph then as the water gets warmer i may be running them a little faster lets say 1.5 1.8 or even 2.0 mph this is usually when the water temp gets around 65 of so but is not always the rule. The sand bar and surrounding areas in the summer months its hard to beat the double willow combiantion off of dipseys jets and inlines at 2.0 mph to 2.4 but if fish are in a negative mood from a cold front or if there just full the thumping action of a #5 colorado slow might just be the answer to get them to go. My favorite go toos have expanded alot since my early years but the #5 xps gold fire tiger with chatruese beads has always been a great one. so many silver streaks now are my favorites that i lost the names in my head but i will say that water color and the amount of sun thats hitting the water that day determine alot of what i put in the water to start. If the water is dingy to dirty with sunlight its hard to beat gold back blades with chartruese or orange beads. if its cloudy i like using red or orange beads with copper back blades. If the water is clear its hard not to run a rainbow colored blade with pink and pearl or blue beads. One thing i try to do on any givin day is to throw out some old favorites and some other combos and let the fish tell me what they want then duplicate. One thing that we can all agree on there are no guaratees in walleye catching lol thats why they call it fishing. Thanks Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Great info.

muchos gracias amigo


----------



## blue dolphin

Hey Pike they do not have a dive curve for inlines but one rule of thumb i can give you. On a 1 ounce inline at 1 mph what ever your lead length is lets say 30ft for example your harness would be running 15 ft down. As far as snap weights go you bet i run them they are very effective all year long and they do have dive curves in both the precison trolling book and the big game edition from a 1/2 once to 8 ounces. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## blue dolphin

No problem buddy Gary


----------



## Rednek

I believe that BassPro has discontinued those keel weights. Just when I really started to use them.

My fishing partner and I have designed our own and have included a 3rd eyelet to attach a treble hook. The prototype mold has been completed, poured and weighed. Now just need to proportionately size to the sizes we want and commence with pouring and painting.

The reason that we are adding a treble hook is that there have been several times that we would have a pullback and no hook-up only to find teeth marks on the keel weight.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

They're still on the site.



http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...r=42748&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults


----------



## K gonefishin

Not sure but they are currently on the BPS website they did go on sale not to long ago and now they seem to be priced a little higher. Let us know when your done with yours, I'll buy some from you. You can never have to much lead. 

A guy I know also does custom Keel/inline weights some painted and un painted. www.bottombouncers.com


----------



## Rednek

Ahh! My bad. They changed the name of them. They used to call the Bass Pro Shops Walleye Angler Keel Trolling Weights. I search for "keel" and for "trolling" and wouldn't get any hits on BassPro's website.


----------



## K gonefishin

I had a few minutes this evening to take some pics of some lead and some spinners I find work well on Erie. The spinner below is tied on 15 pound Seaguar or Siglon line flouro, I use #2 on the top hook and #6 on the bottom, I like the smaller trebel on the bottom as the fish will inhale the whole rig and usually get that back hook stuck somewher in it's gullet/throat with the top hook stuck in the top of the eyes mouth, on the end I have a barrel swivel. I like these spinner rigs around 4-5 feet long, the applications I would use these for would be, inline/keel weights(pictured below) or to run off bottom bouncers. If I'm running them off jet or dispsey's I will tie those up nice and short and just use a leader on them like Gary and Het explained earlier. It's good to carry an assortment of sizes as well, sometimes they like them bigger sometimes smaller, just about all colors of blades both front and back will have there days to shine. alot of the blades shown are by Fishlander, very quality blades with a nice hex finish, copper,gold and silver.


----------



## Searay

WOW this is why I love this site KUDOS to all, pics are worth a thousand words....


----------



## ezbite

K gone, whats the purpose of putting a bead in front of the blade? i havent made any colorado harnesses and the willow leaf ones i made, i didnt do that. should i?


----------



## K gonefishin

It's up to you Tom but I think it helps, if you notice they are all ruby red or on some of mine salmon red, I think it goes with the bleeding bait fish or gills of a bait fish sort of thing, a an attractor maybe. It's just something I was taught, I've had great luck so I've kept with it and don't think it can hurt.


----------



## Moonlighter

That front bead takes a lot of pressure off the clevis and blade. Very important if you're running big Colorado's especially. I've seen a number of comments about losing blades on interchangables and I'd bet more are lost when not running that front bead than are. While you can't see it, without that bead, the big deep cup colorado's can actually slide way up your leader and far away from the beads/hooks due to their easy starting, deep cup and high profile. Use that bead! Kind of like a NASCAR, the bead sets up the draft and the rest of the stuff follows along in line! Come on Daytona!

I should add I noticed what amounts to part of the "Top Secret" everyone was asking about at the Hawgest was presented here previously by Rednek. It was prototyped long, long ago and is run by most top Pro's. Many people have been trying to mold it since so I'm guessing it will be in a number of shops this year I'm sure. I believe Happy Hooker alluded to it on his site several weeks ago so you'll all know where to look. One reason it's been slow to hit the market is the patent and copyright issues with the original bait. Do-It is very sensitive to these things it seems and Bass Pro and Cabela's don't actually manufacture anything you must remember.


----------



## ezbite

K gonefishin said:


> It's up to you Tom but I think it helps, if you notice they are all ruby red or on some of mine salmon red, I think it goes with the bleeding bait fish or gills of a bait fish sort of thing, a an attractor maybe. It's just something I was taught, I've had great luck so I've kept with it and don't think it can hurt.


thanks, any little thing helps. i had thought about putting on a gold bead to mine last year, just didnt.


----------



## Gju42486

Im with kevin on this, i also add the bead ahead of the blade- it just helps finish off the overall look.


----------



## blue dolphin

Thanks for posting those pics Kevin you know how computer illiterate i am lol typing is as far as I go with a computer. Couple things about hooks and beads. Two things i always have preached at my seminars from the beginning is the Single red gomakatusu #2 as the front hook and the red bead as your first bead no matter what. I cant tell you how many fish i have caught on the single red hook and its always stuck right in the top of the mouth. Another thing im doing differently this year is I always use to use a 6ewg gomakatsu treble as my back hook but know they make it in red so im switching all my harnesses over to that i think it will help even more. Going to work again Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## K gonefishin

It's really fun to come up with your own bead and blade patterns, I have a variety of types, colors and sizes and finishes of beads, all offering a different look when you drop them in the water, everything from super bright obnoxious colors to really natural looks of Erie baitfish, each one has there time and place, the best thing about spinnner fishing is nobody has what you have and when you get a hot harness going you can't keep it in the water, there are days when you can't get 4 rods to stay in the water and end up retying a smoking hot combo. I totally get a kick out of spinner fishing as it's defintely my favorite style of fishing and the possibilites are endless, and you save money by putting them together yourself. Now I just got to start painting my own blades. I hope to by the end of the year.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Hey Kevin, where are you getting the Fishlander blades?


----------



## K gonefishin

I get blades from a variety of places, Fisherman Warf, custom blades by a custom painter (the secret ones) Erie Outfitters, and directly from Fishlander online. 

http://www.fishlander.com/Catalog_ch01.asp

They have all finishes and all sizes, a little pricey but very good quality, one reason I want to start painting my own, for one..to save money, 2, I have a sick addiction. LOL


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Looks like an order is in order.


----------



## Toolman

Het-Fishlander site:

http://www.fishlander.com/Catalog_ch01.asp

Tim


----------



## Gju42486

heres a few of my "different" ones, i made these up just to play with and there were days you couldnt keep them out of the water.......i guess like kevin said- its something different that they havnt seen yet.....i even through in one of my spoon harness rigs


----------



## Buckeye Ron

George,
That spoon harness rig is boss IMO
Ron


----------



## Gju42486

boss huh?? im guessing thats good,haha?


----------



## buck.eyehunter

those are some good looken harnesses het, where did you get those blades I have been looking for blades like the ones you have in those pics like the watermelon,chickenwing etc.. I have looked at all the web sites you wrote there but I can't seem to find any.thanks in advance 

thanks for all your help guys thats why this site is awesome.

tightlines mike


----------



## reo

buck.eyehunter said:


> those are some good looken harnesses het, where did you get those blades I have been looking for blades like the ones you have in those pics like the watermelon,chickenwing etc.. I have looked at all the web sites you wrote there but I can't seem to find any.thanks in advance
> 
> thanks for all your help guys thats why this site is awesome.
> 
> tightlines mike



Call Craig at Erie Outfitters, he will set you up 
(440) 949-8934


----------



## ezbite

blue dolphin said:


> Two things i always have preached at my seminars from the beginning is the Single red gomakatusu #2 as the front hook and the red bead as your first bead no matter what. I cant tell you how many fish i have caught on the single red hook and its always stuck right in the top of the mouth. Another thing im doing differently this year is I always use to use a 6ewg gomakatsu treble as my back hook but know they make it in red so im switching all my harnesses over to that i think it will help even more. Going to work again Gary Zart Blue Dolphin



gary, when you say "your first bead" do you mean the one right in front of the #2 hook or the last one on the line? do you really think a #6 treb-hook as to a #4 treb-hook will make that much of a difference and why? im not doubting you, just want to know whats cooking up there.LOL. im going to have to get out to one of your seminars sometime. i missed you at the boat show, any comming up? thanks


----------



## Hetfieldinn

buck.eyehunter said:


> those are some good looken harnesses het, where did you get those blades I have been looking for blades like the ones you have in those pics like the watermelon,chickenwing etc.. I have looked at all the web sites you wrote there but I can't seem to find any.


I have looked all over the web, and I've yet to find anyone that advertises the Silver Streak blades.

Craig at Erie Outfitters has a big selection of these blades available, as well as a big assortment of other blades. These blades are hot, and in high demand. Craig gets a big shipment of them, and they don't last long.

I also hear that Happy Hooker has a decent selection of them.

Ole' Petes offers a nice selection, as well. As a matter of fact, i talked to Don today, and he's adding more and more custom colors and styles as we speak (or type).


----------



## blue dolphin

Hey ezbite good to hear from you . The red bead goes on first then your bead pattern. This i think helps maginfy the red hook. As far a # 4 to a # 6. I used to run #4s and then switched to #6s and my hook up ratio increased dramitacally. I think the less hardware in there mouth the better when there chompin down. As far as seminars im doing one at a new club that Bob yount formed its on Feb12th he will be posting details on here shortly. The other one is at the Fairport Rod and Reel assc in wiilowwick on March 2nd. Larry Dixie Chicken will be posting details about that one. Hope you can make one would like to meet you in person. Hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## ezbite

thanks, i read you post about #6 hooks and dicks happen to have 4 packs of red #6 gamakatsu trebs that i just picked up a few hours ago. i always thought #4's were a bit big, but thats the size on the little stinger spoons.

feb 12th on a tuesday happens to be a day off for me and i look forward to meeting you (finally) can someone post directions to seminar?

the only BAD thing about learning these new (to me) methods is that i have about 100 or more harnesses i tied last year that i got to cut up now..at least it's not snowing.lol.


----------



## buck.eyehunter

thanks het,reo I'll have to give them both a call those blades look better than anything I've seen one my search. does fishlander make them I did not see willows just colorados thanks again 



tightlines............mike


----------



## blue dolphin

lol you have plenty of time to tie lol Bob will be posting directions to the seminar site Ill see you there Gary


----------



## RBud1080

Great thread guys, I love this stuff! Gary, I noticed at your seminar you use the smoke colored fireline and the black clevis for tying your dipsy and jet harnesses. I love the idea of the fireline not getting nicked up as easily as mono or flourocarbon, but do the walleye see the black? Do you want them to see it? Is there such thing as a walleye being leader shy? I'ld love to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks everyone for all the great tips.


----------



## blue dolphin

Its a anal thing with me i dont want them to see the clevis or the line. Im trying to be a stealth as possible dont know if it makes a difference but i know it doesnt hurt. I think that the clearer the water the more stealth you have to be . If im in 6 ft or more of visiblity i will more than likely switch to all flourocarbon with my dipseys and jet harnesses. Dont know if it matters but again I know it doesnt hurt. Good question Thanks Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## ezbite

how about fireline crystal. anyone try that for harnesses?


----------



## blue dolphin

i have not but have thought about experimenting i think it would be worth a shot


----------



## ezbite

i just tied a few with 30# fireline, i really like the way it snells. going to go pick up some fireline crystal today.


----------



## KI Jim

For tying mine, I use:

20 lb flourocarbon-flouro works much better than mono.

I snell on 2 #2 Mustads, then I put on one red and one green bead. I then put on a 1 1/2 " piece of white 12 gauge wire insulation, then another red and another green bead. I use the quick change clevises-occasionally, one will break and I'll lose the blade, but the advantage of being able to easily change blades is a good trade off.

Jim


----------



## ezbite

i see everyone uses either willow or colorado blades. has anyone tried indiana blades? isn't that the type of blades erie deries have?


----------



## Nikster

I want to say *'THANK YOU' *for this post & all the replies.

To me in my opinion, this is the most imformative thread that will help me to become a better 'FISHIN MACHINE' with all these tips, clues, & pics is just GREAT.

*THANKS ALL*, Nik


----------



## K gonefishin

Tom let us know how the Crystal works out for you I was thinking about using that as well, since I'm using the smoke fireline I would only image it would be just as good. one thing I like about the fireline for double willows is that you can take advantage of the tube storage and when you pull a harness out they hang completely straight and not bunched up an crooked due to the super stiff mono.


----------



## fishingguy

Ez, I believe the erie dearies used french #3 blade, I use them for slow troll and drift. Not that great at higher speed.


----------



## K gonefishin

Indiana blades are great, Cyclops lures makes and sells some very nice indiana blades, I've caught many fish on the purple and red nickle ones. They will spin faster than a colorado and and slower than a willow.

A few pages worth, many different designs. quality blades too. 

http://cyclops-lures.com/Blades1.html


----------



## Buckeye Ron

Gju42486 said:


> boss huh?? im guessing thats good,haha?


You got that right


----------



## wakina

Just a thought , lost most of my blades from the quick change clevis after netting a fish. Seems the blade gets caught in the net and then pulled into the opening in the clevis for removal or changeing the blade. After netting a fish I always check the blade and clevis for damage and the proper position of the blade in the clevis. It has cut down on the number of lost blades.

Wakina


----------



## jshbuckeye

this site seemed to have a good selection of walleye harness ideas/components going to give my hand a try at tieing some harnesses up not sure ill get it from here though but the bottom bouncers are a lil different www.walleyefishinglure.com great info on all these threads guys if i had studied this hard in school i know i wouldnt of been in summer school


----------



## ezmarc

Bobby Johns (Cyclops Lures) of Fremont makes some tournament winning blades as well since you guys are looking. You can't order on line but he finally got a web site up to show some of his product and he has contact info on there. www.cyclops-lures.com


----------



## wakina

Found a web site that handles the silver streak blades, they also handle some of the fishlander blades. I have bought from this company before and so far haven't had any complaints about their service. Hope this helps.
Wakina 

www.franksgreatoutdoors.com


----------



## capt S

ezmarc is right Bobby johns blades are some of the best!! Here is a great guy too.!!! i would reccommend them to anyone. well worth the money.


----------



## Alaskan

KaGee said:


> Hey Het, Gary and Jim...
> 
> I've never had luck with the dual willow blade harnesses over here in the extreme Western Basin. And usually a single colorado is what works. What's up with that? Is there something i'm missing?



Two seasons ago, I really had a lot of success with willow leafed harnesses in the west end (West Sister). Some days it was the ticket over colorado. Why'd I try it...it was different. When they started hitting it, I went exclusively to the willows for the day. Last year, like many, gold or copper hammered colorados were it for me with just a couple specialty painted.

Don't totally discount the willows in the west end. I've seen them go when others were not producing well.


----------



## WILDEYED

at what water tempature or time of year do you start pulling worm harness's.usualy i start at 50 deg or the 1st of may. just wandering if you can use them earlier and if you use them with minnows


----------



## blue dolphin

Wild eyed thats a good rule of thumb but its not the rule i have pulled big fish as low as 46 and i know of guys that have pulled as low as 40. speed is critical when the water temp is that cold. the slower the better. hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## snake69

Can someone please tell me what the one hook harnesses are primarily used for? My first guess would be leeches, it might also be my only guess. I wouldn't think you would put a minnow on one due to the way they "circle" when trolling. The only way I could see a night crawler would be a part of one. I hope no one asked this and I missed it!


----------



## Jim Stedke

snake, I have never used a 1 hook trolling harness, but the only time or place I'd consider one is when running tandum lures (1 crank & 1 harness) with a crank that I feel requires both hooks be left on. 

Weapons, flippin harnesses, casting harnesses and the like are all 1 hook harnesses, and some guys drag them, which I guess we could consider a wind driven troll. But I must say that feels like a stretch just saying it.

Good luck & come on Spring.


----------



## hearttxp

Well most of the Drift & Caster Charter Guys out west use the one hook setup up most of the time. It seems like back in the late 70's & 80's it was the Erie Dearies and weight forward stuff. Now after the jig bite is over it is the Worm harnessses. I use my double hook ones when we have a good drift and I put out the bottom bouncers.


----------



## sstaz

This is some really good stuff. I was wondering if anybody ran 2 hooks and a treble stinger off the back. I have seen it a couple of times before and it seems like it might be a good idea.


----------



## Chippewa

This an awesome thread!!! I have read the whole thing a couple of times!!! I started making my own harnesses last year with good sucess after meeting Gary (blue dolphin) at Rodmakers... He saw that I was confused just staring at the blades and he just came up and commented on my OGF hat and gave me a crash course on his choices on colors and sizes of blades and beads and hooks... He was very patient and walked me all around the whole store showing me every component needed.. He was right on the money with the choice of the #4 1/2 copper willow blades with a comination of purple, red, and glow beads.. that was my most productive harness last season.. Thanx again Gary!!!!!! You are the harness god!!! now if you could only post a couple of pics of some your most productive harnesses We would all be set this coming season


----------



## blue dolphin

Chippewa thanks for the kind words im glad that those worked out for you. I will try to take some pics of my most productive worm harnesses. But i have to admit i have know idea how to do it lol. I do have to more harness seminars coming up if you can make either one i will have them there if not i will be a the rodmakers show on the 15th and 16th of march and i can bring them there hope to see ya soon.

Snake the only time i use single hook harnesses is when im running slider lines in ohio waters to stay legal . 2/0 aberdeen are good for that hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## ezmarc

Trolling single hook harnesses come into play during the mayfly hatch and also for finesse presentations at a real slow electric troll or in current. Sometimes used without a blade or even beads.


----------



## Buckeye Ron

Snake the only time i use single hook harnesses is when im running slider lines in ohio waters to stay legal . 2/0 aberdeen are good for that hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin[/QUOTE]

Gary,
I recently watch a FLW tournament in which the fishermen used the Silder lines. Can you explain how those work, i have been unable to find anything out about them in my searches. I know one person had a Slip bobber at the top of his line. Thanks for any help.
Ron


----------



## bassmastermjb

I TIVO'd the program and watched it a couple times.I watched the sliders more than that.Here's how they work:Lure gets dropped in the water-let the amount of line out you desire and clip on your planer board-send it out 1/2 to the desired distance.Next-throw lure 2 into the water and clip on the slider line.This line is already precut to the desired length and clipped on the main line with the planer board. Once clipped on, let out more line off the main line that has the planer board attached.The slider line can only be pulled in or set out by hand, there is no rod attached.I know this sounds like much, but it's a pretty simple set up once you see it in use.Your set-up will look like an "F" when both lines are in the water when moving west to east, a backwards "F" when moving east to west..........Mark


----------



## Papascott

So if a fish hits the lure behind the board, you have to bring the slider all the way in befor unhooking it from the main line to keep from having an extra line/rod in the water? I guess I can see no other way to legally do it, I would hate to have a big ish on and have to keep dragging it while messing with bringing another line in by hand first.

Or I guess you reel in the line to the slider break the band and let it slide down the line and the lure would end up past the fish and then after landing the fish untangle the mess??? Any help in this matter would be great.

Scott


----------



## bassmastermjb

Papa, if you catch a fish on the main line with the planer attached you will need to reel in the line to get to the slider.Unclip the slider and pull that line in by hand, now you can reel in the main line till you get to the planer, unclip the planer and hopefully Your fish will still be hooked.No way this method can be used at night time and it doesn't seem to be much of a sport if you can see what the hell your doing during the daytime.........Mark


----------



## bassmastermjb

I guess when there's alot of money involved, it's a way to fish 2 extra lines and still be legal.I'd rather fish the old fashion way with rod and reel in hand.The slider method can only be used correctly if there is at least 1 other fisherman in the boat with you.........Mark


----------



## Papascott

If you unclip the slider from the line before bringing it into the boat it would be a 3rd line right?

Scott


----------



## bassmastermjb

I guess if you haven't seen it, like I have, it would be difficult to picture.Scott, you are only running 2 lines.Your Primary line attached to the rod with the planer board.The second line is the slider line that is attached to the primary line.Send me your e-mail address and I'll send you the diagram. I should be able to freeze the TV and take a picture of it for you.........Mark


----------



## Toolman

If you are fishing a slider rig, the bait must be OUT of the water before it is unclipped from the main line, otherwise it constitutes a 3rd line, which is illegal. The slider rig is a method used by some tourney guys and I'm guessing that most are VERY careful (especially while on camera) to do this in EXACTLY this manner so they can avoid pegging the meter on the lie detector when they get asked "the question"! I know I am! 

Tim


----------



## Papascott

Mark, thanks for the pix they were pretty cool. You dog looks comfy. Tim that is exactly what I was thinking about. Having to let a fish just drag until I can get the slider all the way into the boat before unclipping it. Or just leave it attached and let it slide to the lure after the board is taken off?

Scott


----------



## blue dolphin

Scott the slider doesnt slide to the board cause the clip is like a stopper as long as you use a red clip i also attach a snap swivel to the line so you dont lose the clip. Also Tim hit it right on the head ( thanks Tim) you must only unclip the slider once the fish / lure is in the boat. Honestly it takes alot to get use to but can help if your on a tough or slow bite. But i believe if your dialed in or on a great bite it can hurt cause you are constantly screwing aroung with it rather than having lures in the water to catch fish. Hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## Papascott

Gary I understand about clipping and having a snap. Just seems like a royal PITA, what do you do with a 50ft long pile of line, just let it lay on the floor of the boat, then untangle and reset?

Scott


----------



## Toolman

It is a PITA. Add a 10-15 knot wind while you are handlining in a fish (or even a just bringing in a bait) trying to keep 30' of mono untangled off of rodholders, velcro sleeve bands, your head, the kicker prop, your fishing partner, etc. 

Tim


----------



## blue dolphin

sorry scott i misunderstood what you were asking. Its a pain like Timmy said but sometimes fishing is lol. I use my Cisco rodholers as a reel by wrapping it around the bases as im bringing it in. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


----------



## Jim Stedke

I see an opportunity for "Slider Tamer", like a small plastic bucket (to drop the line into), with a soup can on one side (for the harness), and a tuna can on the other (for the clip). What do you think???

You know walleye guys are gadgit junkies... we should be able to sell em like hot-cakes... 

I need investors... send your $500.00 to Kissyourmoneygoodbye Enterprises today, before all the shares are sold out.

LOL 

I think I need a road trip.


----------



## Papascott

Jim are you going to the party at rays this afternoon?


----------



## Jim Stedke

No, I'd better not. I'm just starting out of the worst cold I've had in years. I better be good. Say hi to everyone for me.


----------



## snake69

I watched and recorded that same show. Forgot all about it until you mentioned it. That was a unique setup, I'll admit. Of course with all the times they've probably done it, they made it look easy. I'm sure it could be quite frustrating indeed! Anyhow, it seems to me that the only use for a singel hook harness is the leech. (with the exception of above mentioned use) As I use leeches about 10% of the time, I guess I'll always stow a dozen or so on the boat....


----------



## Seaturd

snake69 said:


> Can someone please tell me what the one hook harnesses are primarily used for? My first guess would be leeches, it might also be my only guess. I wouldn't think you would put a minnow on one due to the way they "circle" when trolling. The only way I could see a night crawler would be a part of one. I hope no one asked this and I missed it!


I've been using and making my own 1 hook harnesses since the mid 70's and they still produce a lot of walleye for me today. They are especially good for finicky fish that don't want a lot of flash and glitz. A single baitholder hook, 5 or 6 beads (chartreuse/green has outproduced all colors but red works very well also) and a Colorado blade (I make some with hammered chrome and some plain chrome and some gold colored). I tie them up with 12 lb Trilene XT using a Trilene knot at the hook and make my leaders anywhere from 18" to 30" or more. Tipped with 1/3 to 1/2 a crawler I rarely miss fish on these rigs.


----------



## snake69

Thanks Seaturd, I believe that's the answer I was looking for. I wondered if people were using them with crawlers, how would they do it. I s'pose that means I'd better pack a few dozen in the boat. Thanks again...


----------



## hearttxp

Just like Seaturd said they need meat ! 1/3-1/2 piece piece of worm. That's all it takes. Here is a pic of the ones I have been making !!


----------



## snake69

Thanks for the pic. Like they say, a pic is worth a thousand words. Much obliged! What size line are you using? It appears to be at least #20 test...and you've got what, about 1 or 1& 1/4 oz sinker. Of course the sinker would depend on the depth...


----------



## snake69

When tying 2 hook harnesses, what knot do you use for the second hook , the second hook being the one 8" to 10" (or whatever distance you use) from the bottom end, being the first hook. I'm assuming the first hook knot is done using the snell knot. George told me the one he uses, a description only, and without seeing it done, I'm not sure how to tie it or go about it. I'll admit, I'm dumb when it comes to knot tying. I primarily use the palomar. I do have a reference I can go to if I get a name of a knot. I wondered if the second knot is also the snell, but can't figure out how it's done, because in my head, you'd be doing it backwards. At least that's how it seems to me. Here's the site I refer to:http://animatedknots.com/


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Bring the line up from the bottom of the hook along the shank. Go through the eye of the hook, then come back around the eye, and wrap the shank ten times, and up through the eye again. This will give you a nice inline snell knot. Use octopus style hooks so it sits flat and straight.


----------



## snake69

Thanks Het, 
That puts a little more light on it. I bought some trebles for the first hook, I thought I'd do some of each. Curious what you use, but I s'pose since I'm not going fishing today, I can just look back at the beginning of this as I believe you posted pics. Thanks for the tip on the circle hook, never considered that. Of course when I went to tying, I'd of probably been confused as to why it didn't lay flat.. Got the woman out buying beads as we speak, just have to get a few more things to give this a shot. Thanks again..............................

Sorry Het, I just started at the beginning looking for the pics I knew were there, and everything you just told me was in those first few posts. I guess I should've went back to the beginning and looked around before I threw out those questions. Of course the thread has gotten quite long by now....


----------



## hearttxp

snake69 said:


> Thanks for the pic. Like they say, a pic is worth a thousand words. Much obliged! What size line are you using? It appears to be at least #20 test...and you've got what, about 1 or 1& 1/4 oz sinker. Of course the sinker would depend on the depth...



Yep that is 20#P-line florcarbon. That is a 1oz I put on that set up just to show the bead that holds the sinker up.


----------



## duckman

I was out trying to find a supplier for willow blades and I ran across this :

http://www.secretweaponlures.com/swtip05.htm

The chart is about half way down


----------



## K gonefishin

This is for spinnerbaits for guys that are casting...at least that is how it appears to me  not trolling for walleye


----------



## Bob Why

I was going to say the same thing K gone, but the same principle applies for the blades. Only we can run the Colorado's and Indianas on a dipsy to get them down deep.


----------



## duckman

What I thought was interesting Kev was the information about visibility for example with the Willow better from the side and Colorado better from behind... 

someone else mentioned some where in this thread about western vs central basin ... they mentioned about how western basin was said to do better with a colorado and central they did better with willow .....

integrating the two peices of info... I would say that in the more open water that the willows side profile allows walleye to see it from farther out where the colorado blade thumps in the dinge western basin water until the fish can follow behind and see it .....

just some thoughts I had that kind of hlep me make sense of when and why


----------



## Moonlighter

Nice chart, really sums it up. It's aboslutely applicable to trolling, especially the side to side, front to rear, etc. Also the noise output which will bring em in from a lot farther in the case of the willows when trolled.


----------



## jshbuckeye

Was just looking around and all the harnesses i seen were double willow leafed and single colorado blades is there something to that observation and if so why the double with the willow and single with the colorado and does anyone have the degrees at wich the dakota blade flares out? I am thinking of putting one in front of a willow blade just 1 or 2 beades between em. I have a few musky baits that have big colorados stacked and they throw some serious flash and other great qualities to them.


----------



## Bob4246

Here's afew of mine. I mainly fish for inland saugeyes off BB's. Usually .7 to 1.5MPH. For years I toiled with worm blowers to give the worm the proper balance or bouyancy at slow speeds. For several years now I have been using painted styrofoam floats to do the same. The floats allow the worm to be presented in a more horizontal plane at slow speeds. These worked out of Edgewater last summer too (but so did everything else!)


----------



## moondog5814

Hetfieldinn said:


> Bring the line up from the bottom of the hook along the shank. Go through the eye of the hook, then come back around the eye, and wrap the shank ten times, and up through the eye again. This will give you a nice inline snell knot. Use octopus style hooks so it sits flat and straight.


I just started making some harnesses for the first time. Boy, your way of doing the snell knot seems to easier than the animated version. Thanks again for your expertise, Het.


----------

