# a-rig in ohio tournys



## robert10

Hello everyone,

I'm curios to what people think of the a-rig to be fished in our ohio circuits.

I've been talking to a bunch of tourny guys from NE ohio. And from the research i've done from the internet alot of PROs flw, bass and paa, are kinda against this a-rig setup. The ohio guys are telling me that they hope its not aloud to be fished in our tournys. Its IMO not PURE, theres not really any skill to it, any joe can go out and get lucky any time with it. I'm just curios to see what some of you guys think and to see if any of the ohio tourny directors are going to ban it from there circuits. IMO me and a bunch of other guys from NE ohio hope its banned or not allowed in competition. JUst asking for what people think? This bait just doesn't seem PURE.


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## Bad Bub

First off, it's illegal in ohio so reguardless of how this discussion goes (probably alot like the last 3) it's really not going to matter.... secondly, anyone can get lucky and catch a limit on any lure or technique out there. To call the a-rig not "pure" is like calling a carolina rig not "pure". A truely "pure" way of fishing would be tying a peice of thread to a stick, build a hook from some sharpened wood and dig up your own worms or grubs for bait.....

There is no guarentee you will catch fish on an a-rig. It's nothing more than another technique. It works great at times just like cranks, spinnerbaits, plastics, etc..... but not always. Paul elias has been using it for 3 years and last fall was the first time it ever really caught anything for him.... it has it's place, let be there.

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## dmills4124

According to an article in one of my mags ohio has a 3 hook limit the A-rig has 5 or 6 hook or lures. The ? is should the other 2 or 3 be dummies without hooks or not. It looks like a standard umbrella rig used on strippers and ocean fishing for bill fish. Seems like fun with a quick bag limit. It doesnt sound like the ohio boys will be writing any tickets till the lawmakers make their definitions more clear. Is it a miniature spider rig on one pole?
This should be interesting to see what the local clubs decide.
later ya'll
donm


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## ranger487

If I did my research right it is what the below poster stated 3 hooks per line they do sell 3 wire A Rigs and that should be legal. I could be wrong but I read the same thing.


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## Bad Bub

ranger487 said:


> If I did my research right it is what the below poster stated 3 hooks per line they do sell 3 wire A Rigs and that should be legal. I could be wrong but I read the same thing.


Correct. 3 hooks per line. By law it would be legal with a couple of baits with no hooks or you could clip a couple of wires off. The question though about it being banned in tournys though would be left up to the directors and rule making commitees. As long as your within the law i see no reason to not let somebody fish it. Will i ever throw it? Probably not. But if it's kicking my butt i'll definately give one a shot. It's a very situational bait and your not going to catch limits on every cast. If you could it would have been around decades ago. Just some food for thought, when the first Big O crank bait was carved, people cried for crankbaits to be banned from fishing all together! Where would we all be with out crankbaits?

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## sisezz73

The rig can be fished with 3 hooks. I would put the 2 other arms with dummy baits or just spinnerbait blades on them. The rig is supposed to look like a small school of shad. So the more the better. I am sure it will work ,but it will have it's time and place. If you plan on using it in a tournament you better practice with it first. Little bit of a learning curve to using the rig.


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## legendaryyaj

You guys crack me up. 

First off, how many of the guys in OH throw swimbaits to begin with? Every bass fishermen that I've ran across still just throws a jig or a crazy colored worm that they swear by. There have been plenty of other techniques that have come out and yet people still just fish with what they have confidence in. All this talk about banning the A-Rig is just rediculous honestly.

I wish they would've banned the Vision 110 when it dominated on Beaver Lake.


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## johnboy111711

yaj, dont stir the pot!


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## Nipididdee

We are only banning Cullin's jig he uses in any EEI event 

Within limits of the venue's governing laws- it's a keeper in DoBass events.

Anyone crying foul about TAR likely doesn't fish with us anyhow- they are busy being angry somewhere else :C

nip


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## markfish

were aloud to use them with 3 hooks and we had are tournament meeting already and it came up so we all talked it over and decited its a go with 3 hooks only, now to call this new rig a lake raper is wrong you still have to cast it reel it in and fish it like all other baits this ant no magic bait, and just cause it worked down in the south dont mean its going to work here in are lakes,so if some body wants to chunk that big rig all day god bless them,just my take on it and at 25.00 each your not going to see tons of them,first snag there goes 25.00,now how many of you out there will have 5 or 6 of them in there box,not me,im not saying i wont have one but i still like my goto baits better right now,and they still make a check here and there,old school,markfish


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## robert10

Thanks for your replys guys. Like I was saying i was just curios to what people think. All I know is if I can wack them in 48to 35 water temps its goin to domininate most of the year in our tournys, and thats just fine. Like I said we were just askin what you guys thought. Nip, just curios, are we goin to be able to have 5 baits with 2 of them being dummys? or just 3 total?


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## Cull'in

yaj...go to any tournament at Portage Lakes. If there are 80 boats, there are 80 swimbaits rigged ready to get wet!

nip...I'd rather you cut my arms off with a butter knife rather that ban that little jig!

I'm mixed about the A-rig. It's got a place but I don't think it's going to be something that dominates 12 months a year, especially here in Ohio. While it might catch fish, we don't have many Guntervilles in our backyard!
Whatever happens regarding it's use, I hopes it's unaminous among circuits and clubs or we just invite another enemy to the party.


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## johnboy111711

cullin, it must be infectious if nips got you talkin about the enemy too!


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## Nipididdee

I used the TAR in the Fall open at Moggie - 3 hooks 2 dummmies, I didn't win 

The X KSU pres is crushing BIG largemouths on his now home lake KY/Barkley this winter-the last tournament around Christmas he had 21lbs and didnt even check... 

They are a BIG coldwater/suspended fish deal.

No jigs permitted in 2012 per Johnboy111711. We all witnessed how they have dominated EEI the past couple years and concluded their lake raper status. ODNR is looking into the jig matter...  Tubes are next! [email protected]

www.dobass.com


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## Cull'in

Nipididdee said:


> I used the TAR in the Fall open at Moggie - 3 hooks 2 dummmies, I didn't win
> 
> The X KSU pres is crushing BIG largemouths on his now home lake KY/Barkley this winter-the last tournament around Christmas he had 21lbs and didnt even check...
> 
> They are a BIG coldwater/suspended fish deal.
> 
> No jigs permitted in 2012 per Johnboy111711. We all witnessed how they have dominated EEI the past couple years and concluded their lake raper status. ODNR is looking into the jig matter...  Tubes are next! [email protected]
> 
> www.dobass.com


Just ban flipping! Everyone knows big fish don't live shallow year round.

Change the name to EECI, *E*lite *E*lectric *C*rankbait *I*nvitationals!!!
That would be awesome.


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## robert10

Alright guys, I think your missing are point, or i probably didn't explain it right.

Were not saying anything about it raping the lakes with the umbrella rig, I guess were trying to get the ethical , spotsmanship part of it. I know its legal but so is trolling and live bait. Nip, you and cullin I thought for sure, would get what we were trying to express. Like I said, just fishing for opinions.


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## Harbor Hunter

The understanding I get from the ODNR that the rig is being looked at,no determination has been made as of yet.Yes,as it stands right now,it would be considered illegal here.The technicality revolves around the number of hooks,and what is considered as one hook.How many hooks are on a standard crankbait? Is it two treble hooks,or six hooks? Is a treble hook considered as only one hook,or like the A-Rig one piece with 5 components.Who knows when a final determination will be made.I was surprised to learn that the rig is already legal in Michigan,and hopefully it will be here before long too.As far as the overall success this rig has,let me put it this way.If you weren't winning a lot of tournament money before the A-Rig came along,you won't be winning anymore than you were before.It's not a miracle lure,it's just another technique to be used at certain times.I fish Bassmaster Opens,the FLW,and NBAA,and not one of them has a problem with this rig,I can't understand why anybody would.


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## Cull'in

robert10 said:


> Alright guys, I think your missing are point, or i probably didn't explain it right.
> 
> Were not saying anything about it raping the lakes with the umbrella rig, I guess were trying to get the ethical , spotsmanship part of it. I know its legal but so is trolling and live bait. Nip, you and cullin I thought for sure, would get what we were trying to express. Like I said, just fishing for opinions.


Oh I get what your saying. Nip and I are just having some side fun!

My opinion on the A-rig? No need to ban it if they aren't doing it at the highest levels of tournament fishing. It's just another tool, not a miracle lure.

If it's not banned in Ohio I'll have one or two for sure. They'll probably be dry more than they're wet though!


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## Nipididdee

> No need to ban it if they aren't doing it at the highest levels of tournament fishing. It's just another tool, not a miracle lure.


Agreed with Culln here - to go further,even if banned in other levels higher or lower- if it meets the venues' laws- it's good at DoBass.

Current Ohio law it is legal - with only three hooks used.

I for one have never understood the hype regarding the TAR specific to ethics or sportsmanship.

I always viewed it as nothing more than a new technique. The biggest cry I have followed on other boards is fish get foul hooked... as they do on most any open water mutlihook presentation (cranks/jerks/etc) just doesn't add up to me other than enemy envy.

Rather shocked to hear some pro's take on it, at least until Mann's bought it from the guy ... 

I see it now- Culln takes the third AOY all on the TAR in 2012...

I can't wait to C-rig with it- shhhhhh


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## Maple City Basser

We had a good discussion at our club kick-off meeting today around multiple rigs and TAR. As a group of 20, we unanimously voted to change our club to 1 rod and any OHIO legal lure, so TAR is in. Can't wait to hear the stories of multiple fish on a single cast, or will they be just another fish story. In the end, you still gotta bring the most weight to the scales, and what are you going to do with the rest of the day if you catch your limit on 2 casts?


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## johnboy111711

cullin, can you throw a top water on a c-rig? I'm IN!!!


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## Jimmyc812003

Ohio 

The Alabama Rig may be used with (3) hooked lures.

An Alabama Rig or Umbrella Rig, using 5 leaders, is not legal in Ohio. Anglers may only use up to three hooks on each line. The Alabama Rig allows for 5 items to be attached. If a fisherman were to use only 3 of the leaders on the rig, using only 3 hooks in total for the entire rig, then, they could use the rig, but would be using only part of it. Clarification provided by Ohios Division of Wildlife.


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## alumking

Jimmy they got the 3 arm models out I bet they would work good at hoover. I am going to try it for some fun fishing and white bass. You boys fishing this year? We need a 4th team to room with at KY.

Jami


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## Jimmyc812003

I will know Monday....I have to meet with our sponsor Monday evening...I will let you know after that....I know i think in the right spots and the right time of year it could be good!!

Jimmy


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## Nipididdee

Official law enforcement response as confirmed with DOW Inland Fisheries 



1501:31-1-02 Definition of terms.

*(C) &#8220;Angling&#8221; means fishing with not more than two hand lines, not more than two units of rod and line, or a combination of not more than one hand line and one rod and line, either in hand or under control at any time while fishing. The hand line or rod and line shall have attached to it not more than three baited hooks, or not more than three artificial fly rod lures, or one artificial bait casting lure equipped with not more than three sets of three hooks each.

Per the OAC, provided above, in Ohio, an Alabama Rig can have 5 wires, but must be limited to three hooks (either one single hook per wire, or one treble hook per wire) and YES, the use of dummy baits without hooks on the other wires is permissible.*

Beyond that, it is each club/events determination.

Here's something I have to say - how can everyone be in such a stink about the A-rig but...

*No one seems to care much about fishing various events that won't provide line tanks to care for fish - no stink there...*

The righteous though cry foul of how the A-rig destroys bass angling whether by catching all the fish, meathunters, foul hooking or "sportsmanship".

ONE tournament THAT DOESNT USE TREATED LINE TANKS/WEIGH PROCESS results in a greater totality of harm BY FAR...but yet anglers keep going, fishing, standing in line with floaters in a bag for 10 minutes, then throw em back and high five their partners- out of sight out of mind.

I'm not trolling here- it is what it is - priorities of "morality" and none towards common sense and proven science of post tournament mortality.

Directors in Ohio - make 2012 your year to change - forget the A-rig and start pointing fingers at yourself - you have that responsibility to the earth - and anglers, you are doing more harm as anglers than if you threw the A-rig all year otherwise, if you stand by and participate in such matters.

"Sportsmanship"...my patooter...

nip
www.dobass.com


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## Bad Bub

Nipididdee said:


> Official law enforcement response as confirmed with DOW Inland Fisheries
> 
> 
> 
> 1501:31-1-02 Definition of terms.
> 
> *(C)*


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## fishin4five

Johnboy, you can throw a popper with five flukes off the back...but make sure you take off one of the trebles and only have hooks in two of the flukes.


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## Phil Carver

After a couple weeks of research and carefull thought , I have made the call to allow this fishing method in our events. I see no advantage to make this presentation more productive here in our waters over other fishing methods. Some argue that fish can become foul hooked on one of the hooks that are not in the fishes mouth. I say that this happens more often while using say a 6" jerk bait or crankbait. Some argue that there is an advantage to catching more than one fish on a single cast. I have personaly caught 2 bass on a crankbait so it can be done outside the A-Rig. The list can go on and on , but as Rory has stated , it is up to us as sportsmen to follow through with proper fish care. Catching fish should only be a small percentage of your tournament goal. Striving to insure that your catch remains healthy until they are released should be our biggest concern.

I personaly do not know how a tournament director can police the A-Rig. They have enough on their plate as it is. There will be a ton of he said she said at the weigh in due to one person accusing someone of useing the rig thus stalling the amount of time that it takes to insure a safe , healthy live release of everyones catch. Then it will turn into much more from there. 

There are other fishing methods that have been kept under the radar so to say. Since these presentations have not been reconized to have won a huge national event there has not been any hype about them as an advantage. I say that if we had to ban one method , we would have to ban them all. Next thing you know we will be paying $50 for a lure since everyones favorite local companies will go under due to not being allowed to compete in the markets with new fads or ideas. 

So I say we all just get this cabin fever over with soon and hit the water! We will all soon forget about this and be enjoying ourselves. Heck I am not going to lie , it is definatly getting the best of me. I guess I will just have to visit the folks over at Venom Lures and pick up a couple of the pay me rigs that they have and give them a try myself.


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## Nipididdee

> There will be a ton of he said she said at the weigh in due to one person accusing someone of useing the rig thus stalling the amount of thime that it takes to insure a safe , healthy live release of everyones catch. Then it will turn into much more from there.


This won't happen at our events, if it does, those anglers will be fishing events at DIDbass.com 


nip


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## Phil Carver

Same here Rory.


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## fritobandav

i wondere what a guy who fly fishes would think about usin 5 flies on one line. im starting to think its the only true fishing form of sport left. how many lures do ya need with hooks on a line until its no longer called sport fishing. if ya think its alright be my guest if you dont dont


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## JignPig Guide

Nipididdee said:


> Here's something I have to say - how can everyone be in such a stink about the A-rig but...
> 
> *No one seems to care much about fishing various events that won't provide line tanks to care for fish - no stink there...*
> 
> The righteous though cry foul of how the A-rig destroys bass angling whether by catching all the fish, meathunters, foul hooking or "sportsmanship".
> 
> ONE tournament THAT DOESNT USE TREATED LINE TANKS/WEIGH PROCESS results in a greater totality of harm BY FAR...but yet anglers keep going, fishing, standing in line with floaters in a bag for 10 minutes, then throw em back and high five their partners- out of sight out of mind.
> 
> I'm not trolling here- it is what it is - priorities of "morality" and none towards common sense and proven science of post tournament mortality.
> 
> nip
> www.dobass.com


I agree. And I'm not trolling here either. But those non-tank weigh processes of some local tournaments and club tournaments contribute to a higher than needed mortality rate. Just like Nip alluded to... Standing in line with bass in a bag for over 10-minutes, then high-fiving friends while the fish are dying because of a lack of knowledge, or compassion of bass mortality is something to be concerned with. A new lure presentation isn't a blip on the mortality screen when compared to an improperly prepared weigh-in.

I suggest to bass anglers to only participate in tournaments that have policies and modes of operation in place that protect the wonderful species of Ohio bass. There are some great tournament directors throughout the state that follow proper and ethical treatment of bass. They are not hard to find. And they should not be offended when asked what their weigh-in minimum standard of practice regarding fish survival is.


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## Phil Carver

Could not agree more with you and Rory on this one. But with that said , we are posting our views pertaining to proper fish care in the wrong topic. I know that a few of us on here could go on for days about that subject.


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## Nipididdee

It's exactly the right topic JignPig !%

live/fish each day as though it's your last...

the 100 or so who made the meeting Sat comprehend how that plays into TAR

Here is FLW position and identical to ours:

http://www.flwoutdoors.com/fishing-articles/153206/flw-clarifies-position-on-alabama-rig/


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## Cull'in

Personally, I can't wait to tie three jigs on one and flip it around treetops!


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## young-gun21

Cull'in said:


> Personally, I can't wait to tie three jigs on one and flip it around treetops!


3 Spro Frogs is my target!!

Sent from my htc Evo


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## Nipididdee

one jig - one brushhog- one weiner tube


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## alumking

OMBTT take on the A-Rig

There are a bunch of good points on both sides of this issue. We at OMBTT have another issue to contend with and that is enforcement of 3 states laws that are completely different. So here we go with the potential of guys saying I saw them in Tennessee throwing 5 baits, or even with the Ohio Laws a guy throws 5 baits but says I had 2 hooks cut off. This is a huge concern and a easy opportunity for someone to cheat. As far a policing it you can see someone throwing the a-rig a mile away but how will you know how many hooks are on it? I watched guys last year at KY Lake Everstart event throwing it. This is something that each tournament should address for their specific situation and there is no right or wrong but ultimately it is up to each and every tournament director to make their own decision. I see potential if allowed to have some serious issues down the road in our situation at OMBTT. It could divide anglers by having accusations of cheating . I do not know what stance we are going to take yet but we are leaning towards not allowing it in our circuit and we did not allow it at our classic last year. I do not know if it will have that much impact in the state of Ohio but 2 more big events nationally in the last month won and dominated on the a-rig. Have you ever seen a technique that every single person in the top is using it? It is pretty incredible. I think we will all learn more about this method over time so I am not going to even get started defending or supporting this method of fishing using phrases or information you read somewhere else. Lets face it I bet very few if any of you or me actually know that much on this subject (bass fishing wise)due to it became popular a very short time ago and we have not had time to see the results around here. We are going to find out a great deal this year. I have seen fights break out on chat rooms and moderators pull the threads as well. It is bad for tournament directors period due to we do not have the time nor resources to even want to deal with it. We are so busy all year long I wish you guys who fish our events knew what is involved in running good tournaments. With that said you can see this subject is at the top of many anglers minds and as a tournament director you are not going to please everyone regardless of your decision. I do not think there is a right or wrong at this time but over this year you will see much more information on the subject so informed decisions can be made on the subject for the future direction of this fishing method. Now let get this year going I want to fish!~!!!!


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## Nipididdee

The whole "policing" thing just kills me.

How do we handle bed fishing?

How do we handle fish having been caught inside the mouth?

Proper culling practices?

No wake portions?

Off limits?

The use of phones?

Etc....

The SAME EXACT ways we always have- and will do same for TAR and future evolutions in bass fishing.

This is simply basics in directing tournaments to me.

TAR wins events when the entire 200 boat field is throwing TAR too... there is always a first place and a last place regardless.

nip


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## ranger487

Lets just get geared up to go fishing and SMILE while were doing it.

Mark


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## Nipididdee

Always smiling...throughout this discussion particularly 

Now for the sidefinders and biosonic use - not to mention the "slick it" spray to remove the wind glare off the water when bed fishing... 

nip


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## perfcetion

Slick It Spray... Heck i am ordering one of them big ole orange cone deals with glass bottom to look in the water.. That is after I put my dual power poles down to hold me the place that my HB 1198cSi showed that one 8" rock in 30' of water waving to me after I got him fired up with my BioSonic Hydro wave deal..


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