# Making the jump... Fly or pin?



## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

I've been toying around with the idea of getting into fly/pin fishing for a while now, and I think I'm finally ready to jump into it. The only thing that's stopping me is that I don't know which one would suit me best at this time. 

My understanding is that the advantage of a centerpin is drag-free float drifts on a river. I understand that concept, but can you use a pin for flys as well? What if I wanted to hit a pond/lake with it instead? The whole drag-free drift concept is pointless then, or am I missing something?

My main use for it would be steelies this time of year, but I'd also like to chase river smallies in the warmer months. I'd also like to hit ponds/lakes with it. Maybe even get into fly tying!

So what do you guys think would suit me best? Keep in mind, I'm not a professional angler by any stretch, so workarounds and compromises on equipment are a part of my style!!


----------



## jschoenherr (Mar 6, 2012)

Never used one before, but I have seen people in Michigan using flies on centerpin setups for steelhead if that's what you meant. Not really sure if it'd be good for smallies or pond fishing, but like I said, I've never used one.


----------



## toobnoob (Jun 1, 2010)

My understanding is that pin fishing is float fishing (might be wrong, I don't pin fish). It's definitely a successful method for steelhead and smallies on the river. For still water I dont think it would make much sense because you could use a float on a spin setup and have a big casting advantage over a pin.

I fly fish myself and one of the main reasons is the versatility. You can indicator fish on a fly rod however not anywhere close to as well as a pin since that what theyre designed to do. You just have way more options with a fly rod IMO.

That being said I would get both if you can, I've thought about a pin for winter steelhead, long drag free drifts are the ticket when fish won't chase anything.


----------



## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

I am not going to lie, I don't have experience using a centerpin. That being said, I understand the concept and have seen it in action. I'd call it the pinnacle of bait fishing. Absolutely effective, just not my thing. Get a drag free drift on the sack of eggs or nightcrawler, catch a lot of fish, but for me it all comes back to what style of fishing suits you. If you're a numbers only guy that wants to catch a lot of fish, it might be the thing for you. I get more satisfaction out of fly fishing with things I made with my own two hands, fooling a fish on a fly that I made vs. on the real thing with a hook in it. For me it's like bow hunting vs gun hunting. Gun hunters will kill a more deer in less time, and I have no problem with that, but I get more enjoyment from archery hunting. To each his/her own.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Do you want to fly fish or throw a bobber out and drift it 100 feet?

It's a very successful way to dunk bait, but fly fishing, it is not.


----------



## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

fallen513 said:


> Do you want to fly fish or throw a bobber out and drift it 100 feet?
> 
> It's a very successful way to dunk bait, but fly fishing, it is not.


That's exactly what I needed to know... Thanks all!

Now that I've narrowed it down to a fly setup, what weight should I be looking at for a general "workhorse" kinda deal?


----------



## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

whjr15 said:


> That's exactly what I needed to know... Thanks all!
> 
> Now that I've narrowed it down to a fly setup, what weight should I be looking at for a general "workhorse" kinda deal?


************************************************************

For an all purpose flyrod I would select a 9 to 9'-6" six weight rod. It might be a tad light for some very large steelhead but would also serve you well for river smallmouth and lake largemouth. I have landed 30" steelhead on my five weight but it required a lot of time which totally exhausted the fish and most probably condemed it to death. I currently use a 10ft seven weight which allows me to get long enough drag free drifts plus land larger steelhead in an acceptable amount of time.

You may find the challenge of flyrod fishing is to your liking and end up with an assortment of rod weights to better match the fish you are pursuing.

Whatever you decide upon, good luck and enjoy.


----------



## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Although I rarely fish heavier than a 4wt in Ohio, I agree with Shortdrift on a "general purpose" flyrod being a 9' 6wt....since you are including steelhead to bluegills. Trust me on this though....if you find that you like fly fishing you WILL be buying more flyrods. I was in the same boat as you about 5 years ago...and now I have a full range from 1wt to 8wt. My 7'4" Orvis Superfine 4wt probably sees the most action, and is mated to a Nautilus fwx 3/4.


----------



## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

I pick the rod wt based on line and line based on type of fly and/or wind or speed of water current conditions. 

I imagine steelhead environments produce a fair bit of wind, flies imitations to be heavier or more bulky (affected by wind) and water current to be respectable. Therefore, a 7 wt. or higher would be the appropriate tool. For me that is a specialized weight because I don't encounter those conditions that often. I live around smaller rivers and streams, I usually use a size 8 or size 10 wooly bugger and wind is slight. Therefore, a fiberglass 5wt, 8 ft with a click and pawl reel is the general all around for me. I catch white bass, hybrid, crappie, gills, small mouth, largemouth, cats and carp. Learn how to use rod angles to fight a fish. None of that hold rod straight up high in the air goofiness unless you like losing fish.

screech et al. is correct in stating that if you get into fly fishing you will probably get more than one rod since you run up against all types of different conditions that will determine line wt. IMHO, a collection comprised of a 3, 5, and 7 wt. or 4, 6, and 8 wt would have you covered for 99% of the fly fishing conditions in the Ohio area. Anything other than those combinations just certifies you are an addict.


----------



## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Thanks a ton guys! I figured there would be more rods in my future, once I realize what my specific needs are. For the first purchase, I'd just like something that would enable me to fish all the situations I would normally, to gain some insight, even if its not a perfect match for some of them... Once I come to experience what would be a better fit for a particular scenario, I'm sure more rods/reels will follow! Looks like a 9' 6wt setup is in my near future... Probably going to buy tomorrow!


----------



## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Yep, the other posters are correct...if you decide you like fly fishing you will begin a collection of rods. I started like most everyone else with a do-all setup, a 9' 5wt. Then I added a 7'9" 3wt for small stream trout...then a 9'6" 7wt for steelhead/bass...then a 9' 9wt for throwing big wind resistant bass surface flies...then an 8' 10wt primarily for saltwater purposes but also with intentions for the same big wind resistant bugs for bass...and I'm probably not done yet. I'd like to add a really light rod for the small stream trout, either a 1wt or 2wt. 

It's a sickness.


----------



## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Heading out with the 1wt for some trout today.  I figured the boss doesn't need me EVERY Friday.  If you're at Clear Creek this morning say hello!


----------



## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Ever had one of those days? Well, today was one of those days for me. The water was cold, leaves were beautiful, temperature just right, waders weren't leaking, and just the right amount of rain. However, I didn't catch a hundred fish, so my day was not so good. I'm just glad I brought the 1wt


----------



## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

Ha! That creek chub had to be fun on the 1 wt. I have caught them on a 7'6" 3 wt and had a blast!


----------



## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

whjr15 said:


> Thanks a ton guys! I figured there would be more rods in my future, once I realize what my specific needs are. For the first purchase, I'd just like something that would enable me to fish all the situations I would normally, to gain some insight, even if its not a perfect match for some of them... Once I come to experience what would be a better fit for a particular scenario, I'm sure more rods/reels will follow! Looks like a 9' 6wt setup is in my near future... Probably going to buy tomorrow!


 
OK, it's tomorrow, so we expect a full report of what you bought and your first thoughts on casting it in the back yard.


----------



## Bwana J (Sep 12, 2010)

Welcome to the Flyfishing Clan. I'm sure after landing your first Steelie you'll be addicted just like the rest of us. Spend lots of time on the water with it and talk to other flyfishers and ask lots of questions. Chances are they'll offer lots of help thru the learning curve and have you hooking fish soon. Good luck and remember, just have fun.


----------



## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

sbreech said:


> OK, it's tomorrow, so we expect a full report of what you bought and your first thoughts on casting it in the back yard.


Went to Rodmakers and Frank set me up with a 9' 7-8wt Scientific Anglers starter outfit and a half dozen or so flies. After leaving there, I went straight to Wallace lake to try it out! I'll tell you one thing, I've never caught so many.....


....Trees, leaves, grass, even myself that is!!  Nearly casted my hat right off my head one time!! After a half hour or so, I was starting to get a little better at it. Moved to a more open area and noticed a huge difference in my casting... I guess when there's nothing behind you, it makes sense, duh!! lol.

I only stayed for a couple hours, but I feel fairly confident in my casting now. After I understood the role my line hand played in relation to the rod motion, I was casting pretty consistent loops... Even as far as double hauling! Man, a little well-timed pull of the line can really get that fly sailing out there! Almost effortlessly!

Didn't catch anything, but I think that's because 99% of the time I was casting! Couldn't help myself! Only left because I ran out of flies; I kept whippin em right off! It was pretty windy, so every now and then my back cast was garbage, and when I went to forward cast, the fly (unknowingly) was in the water behind me causing it to break off.

One thing I'm uncertain of is what to do with the fly on the retrieve. Do you just strip line in slowly, use the rod like you're "jigging" it, or what?

One thing's for sure, I can already tell I've got the sickness!


----------



## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

There is no cure...sorry.


----------



## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

whjr15 said:


> Only left because I ran out of flies; I kept whippin em right off! It was pretty windy, so every now and then my back cast was garbage, and when I went to forward cast, the fly (unknowingly) was in the water behind me causing it to break off.
> 
> One thing I'm uncertain of is what to do with the fly on the retrieve. Do you just strip line in slowly, use the rod like you're "jigging" it, or what?
> 
> One thing's for sure, I can already tell I've got the sickness!



LOL!!! I remember when I started and heard the distinct cracking sound to find a leader minus fly! 

Regarding stripping, I use the line to vary the stripping in of line. Varies from a slow inch by inch to a couple of inches and a pause or sometimes a fast retrieve by holding rod under my armpit and using both hands to strip in line as fast as I can. I do not use the rod to jig, all the action is imparted through the line by the hand. This allows a direct connection with the line for a hook set by directly pulling the line with hand versus the swinging of the rod to set the hook.

That is how I do it. Others my have different method. Oh, and welcome to the sickness.


----------



## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Went out again yesterday to a small section of a river, and only whipped off one fly!  It happened within the first couple minutes, while I was trying to remember the motions. The casting part is no longer the area I'm unsure of-- it's the fly selection and presentation. Once I cast, I'm pretty much clueless on what to do!

I will definitely be getting a nice pair of waders, as I could only fish a percentage of the area I was at (with soggy boots nonetheless!). It was like a tease!

I'm hooked on this fly-fishing drug for sure, and the blister on my casting hand is proof!


----------



## toobnoob (Jun 1, 2010)

whjr15 said:


> Went out again yesterday to a small section of a river, and only whipped off one fly!  It happened within the first couple minutes, while I was trying to remember the motions. The casting part is no longer the area I'm unsure of-- it's the fly selection and presentation. Once I cast, I'm pretty much clueless on what to do!
> 
> I will definitely be getting a nice pair of waders, as I could only fish a percentage of the area I was at (with soggy boots nonetheless!). It was like a tease!
> 
> I'm hooked on this fly-fishing drug for sure, and the blister on my casting hand is proof!


One method for river fishing that is pretty easy and produces a lot of fish for me is swinging. It&#8217;s my preferred method for steelhead if the water is above 40 degrees or so. You want to find current that is about walking speed and a good depth for your target species (3ft or so for steelhead but smallies can be much shallower) You cast about 45 degrees downstream (more or less depending on current speed) and throw some line upstream right after the fly hits the water (called mending). What the mend does is add some slack to the line as it starts to drift and allows the fly to sink down to the bottom (use a weighted fly, bead head woolybuggers are great for this). Point the tip of your rod right at or slightly toward your side of the stream and just follow the fly as it goes. The current will pull the slack out of the line and will &#8220;swing&#8221; the fly in an arc across the stream. When the fly gets directly downstream from you and is no longer &#8220;swinging&#8221;, give it a couple short strips, you'll often get a strike right at the end of the swing. Take 2 steps downstream and repeat, you can cover a lot of water with this method.

If you Google swinging a fly and mending it should explain it a bit better than I can. 

Also get a couple of strike indicators (thingamabobbers or something) and drift flies a couple feet below it, use split shot to get it down near the bottom, cast up stream and let it dead drift past you. You will need to mend line to get a good drag free drift. Woolybuggers, nymphs, egg patterns or anything that is buggy and sinks will work well.


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

Welcome aboard the fly fishing train. 

If you are popping flies off on your backcast--- your stroke, stops and timing is way off. Fix it now!

If Frank sold you the rod--you are not far away from free casting help in the metroparks. I think the Backpackers shop is holding the last of this seasons "casting club" get together this week -- Ive helped at a few of them---one session had about 30 people there. no pressure, no structure, no charge---just people helping people. 

Eric, Lee, Tom or whoever shows up to help will straighten you out.


----------



## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Maybe this video will help. "If you ain't snappin' it, you ain't doing it right."


----------



## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

whjr15 said:


> I will definitely be getting a nice pair of waders, as I could only fish a percentage of the area I was at (with soggy boots nonetheless!). It was like a tease!


Think you are hooked now, the additional of waders will only make it worse!


----------



## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Next time I get a chance to go out, I'll give that technique a try. I was kinda swinging/mending inadvertently, since I normally bobber fish with my spinning gear like that. I'll admit, though, most of the time I was casting upstream. Is that generally a no-no? I also wasn't using any splitshot, and the flies were unweighted... Just thought that was how it was supposed to be! Lol

Do any stores locally (Cleveland area) carry quality waders? Or is it something you have to order online? I'd like to get them ASAP, so I won't have to go another trip without!!


----------



## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

whjr15 said:


> Next time I get a chance to go out, I'll give that technique a try. I was kinda swinging/mending inadvertently, since I normally bobber fish with my spinning gear like that. I'll admit, though, most of the time I was casting upstream. Is that generally a no-no? I also wasn't using any splitshot, and the flies were unweighted... Just thought that was how it was supposed to be! Lol
> 
> Do any stores locally (Cleveland area) carry quality waders? Or is it something you have to order online? I'd like to get them ASAP, so I won't have to go another trip without!!


As far as waders go, I could not be happier than I am with my Cabelas breathables and ultralight boots. I'm sure a few others will chime in on these - they are just good quality for the price. For the wintertime, I just wear moreno wool socks thermal undies and a pair of THICK sweats and stay nice and cozy. No need for neoprene waders. My buddy Ben and I were wading in 36 degree water in 11 degree weather and stayed toasty.
[/COLOR] 
I've almost always had better luck fishing UP stream. Cast up and let drift back down. Sometimes I'll fish a high-floating dry fly (like an elk hair caddis) with a dropper scud - no split shot, and produce some nice fish. Sometimes they hit the dry fly, sometimes the scud - but when they hit the scud, the dry is an indicator.


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

The speed and depth of the water dictate whether you fish up or down, also the convention of the other anglers on the water. after a while you will develop enough line cotrol to fish both directions. Ill fish up on small streams (Pa) but fish down in heavy fast water(Mi). Its hard picking up slack line in fast water so you can hook a fish Whereas we fish dries downstream by throwing slack casts , mending and feeding line downstream to get a longer float. One method doesnt work everwhere.

Buy waders from a place that you can try them on for fit and comfort. Youve already been to the Rodmakers Shoppe, Others are TMF in Ravenna, Orvis in Eaton Plaza in Woodmere and Backpackers shop in Sheffield. You could get them online and risk the chance of having to ship them back.


----------



## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Ok cool, thanks for the info guys! I think I've got enough to hold me over for a while, as I can see it would be easy to get information overloaded!  I'm going to try to get out as much as possible this weekend, so I'll let you guys know the outcome!


Oh, one thing I forgot to ask... When using a new tapered leader, does the memory (coil) of the line make it inherently want to tangle & knot? Do you guys straighten it somehow, or does it fall back on my lackluster casting? My money's on the latter, but it doesn't hurt to ask!

Thanks again!


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

You guessed it---but it doesnt hurt to stretch your leader before you start---and your line too.

Find some casting videos by The late great Mel Krieger, His presentation and teaching techniques will get you going in the right direction quickly. If the backpackers start up the casting club again next year you can get individual instruction for the cost of driving. some of the better casters in the area help out there. Spey too.


----------

