# Ken Burns Viet Nam War Documentary TONIGHT PBS



## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Just a reminder that the Viet Nam War Documentary starts tonight on PBS...


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks for the reminder ! I saw the promo yesterday but I likely would've forgotten and missed it.
Thanks !


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## snag (Dec 27, 2005)

Saw the promo and gonna dvr the series.


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## bwarrenuk (Jan 4, 2015)

Also a reminder the moving Viet nam Wall is going to be at Perry high school(lake county) I believe 9/21-9/25. Free admission.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks for the reminder Snakecharmer.
Was a very good start of this week long documentary.
Very interesting...especially the politics building up to the war and all the different countries that were participants in its buildup.
Will continue to watch the rest of the week.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

fastwater said:


> Thanks for the reminder Snakecharmer.
> Was a very good start of this week long documentary.
> Very interesting...especially the politics building up to the war and all the different countries that were participants in its buildup.
> Will continue to watch the rest of the week.


Gave me a new perspective on the war....Very interesting. Politics at its worst.....


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Snakecharmer said:


> Gave me a new perspective on the war....Very interesting. Politics at its worst.....


Absolutely a new perspective.
Was not aware the French played such a huge roll in instigating the VNW as they did.
Didn't realize that Ho Chi Minh was such a 'traveled' man.
Very sad political times for sure...


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## fishmeister (Jul 29, 2004)

I agree, its a good start to the series. I didn't know a lot of that info, and it sure got confusing a couple of times for me. The power vacuum left by the French gave a lot of other groups opportunities to wreak havoc.
Interesting to see Nixon, JFK and Johnson in their non-presidential roles.


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## BlueMax (Dec 3, 2006)

Was very interesting watch last evening. It is a shame we humans keep repeating the same scenario over and over. ( someone always trying to dominate / take advantage of others)
I was very young when the Americans got involved and am very interested in the details of why.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

It's strange to take a step back and wonder about colonialism from times past. Why were the French in Indochina? Why were the Dutch in Indonesia? Why were the Spanish in the Phillipines? Why were the British in China, and for that matter, in North America, BTW at war with the French?

Most of that had to do with lucrative trading and controlling valuable resources. And before aviation and rocketry, it was naval power that delivered the punch.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

fastwater said:


> Didn't realize that Ho Chi Minh was such a 'traveled' man.
> Very sad political times for sure...


Ya....Working in Boston....Never knew that...


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## Northern Reb (Jan 3, 2012)

I am happy they started the series with the history of colonial involvement and not when JFK started sending advisers in large numbers. 

I didn't know towards the end of the French involvement we were supplying 80% of the cost to prop up their military action.


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Eddie Adams/AP:

"I found that from 1965 to 1975, The New York Times mentioned the names of only 726 of the 58,220 American military personnel killed in Vietnam. Reading through every New York Times article from those years with the word “Vietnam” in it, I found biographical information was included about only 16 dead service members, and photos of 14.

There are just five references to the reactions of the families of the dead, and only two articles mention the suffering of injured American service members. Two other articles discuss the funerals or burials of the dead. This restrained coverage is far different from that of The New York Times or any other media outlet during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

The U.S. military encouraged this change. As the Vietnam War dragged on there were mounting casualties, ever less prospect of victory and ever more reports of atrocities committed by American service members. In response, U.S. commanders searched for new ways to find honor in their troops’ struggles."


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Snakecharmer said:


> Ya....Working in Boston....Never knew that...


...and as a pastry chef and shoveling snow in London...


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Another good show.....So Kennedy wouldn't do the right thing and get out of Viet Nam because he was afraid he wouldn't get re-elected. You could tell he was lying in that one interview....

Sad about the soldier who needs to have a night light due to the being a radio man in the jungle at night.

I remember vaguely about the Buddhist Monks torching themselves but didn't realize they were doing it in Saigon as a protest against the South Vietnam leaders. That should have been a sign to Washington DC that people weren't thrilled with their leaders.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Snakecharmer said:


> Another good show.....So Kennedy wouldn't do the right thing and get out of Viet Nam because he was afraid he wouldn't get re-elected. You could tell he was lying in that one interview....
> 
> Sad about the soldier who needs to have a night light due to the being a radio man in the jungle at night.
> 
> I remember vaguely about the Buddhist Monks torching themselves but didn't realize they were doing it in Saigon as a protest against the South Vietnam leaders. That should have been a sign to Washington DC that people weren't thrilled with their leaders.


Taped the whole week.
Will have to double up tomorrow night and watch it. Didn't get to see it tonight. But I also remember something about the Monks setting themselves on fire in protest. But it stands to reason that at that time the Buddhist would be pro communist.
I seriously doubt that's the case today since the Buddhist have since found out the hard way that communism does not recognize or will tolerate or respect any religion of sort...including Buddhism.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

dang it...I'm in WV right now. Limited TV service here and can't remember if I set the TV to record it at home. Oh well I'll have to catch it the next time it's on.


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## icebucketjohn (Dec 22, 2005)

As usual with any of Ken Burns series, it's a top notch, first class documentary.


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## stormfront (Feb 18, 2016)

watching it is like reliving my youth all over again. it was on the news every night. i had five cousins there from 67-69, two were wounded. many friends were there too. i remember vividly the year i was eligible for the draft. my number was high but they suspended the draft two months before i got out of high school. i believe that most who lived through that era are still somewhat affected by it. i've nothing but respect for all those who served there. tough guys in tough times.

burns is awesome. always has been.


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## Northern Reb (Jan 3, 2012)

JFK sanctioned a military coup against the leader of another country who the US was allied with....while on vacation! Saved the world from nuclear destruction, Marilyn Monroe, regime change....he could do it all


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## icebucketjohn (Dec 22, 2005)

Tuesday night's program was eye opening also. Amazing our leaders continually lied to its citizens that eventually costs thousands of American and Vietnam lives. They knew in 64 the war could not be won, but continued to ramp the war up and continue supporting Vietnam regime changes after a number of coups. Sad chapter in our American Leadership. Our boys paid dearly.


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## ICENUT (Apr 29, 2008)

No different now john still didn't win in korea,are we winning in Iraq? have we won in Afganistan??? Does anybody really think we can win any of the wars in middle east REALLY no one else has in thousands of years


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Northern Reb said:


> JFK sanctioned a military coup against the leader of another country who the US was allied with....while on vacation! Saved the world from nuclear destruction, Marilyn Monroe, regime change....he could do it all


We could sure use him today.


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Be sure to catch the segment on the Kent State shootings.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Northern Reb said:


> JFK sanctioned a military coup against the leader of another country who the US was allied with....while on vacation! Saved the world from nuclear destruction, Marilyn Monroe, regime change....he could do it all


And he changed fashion so men didn't have to wear felt hats!


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## icebucketjohn (Dec 22, 2005)




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## icebucketjohn (Dec 22, 2005)




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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

Great series so far! I've only watched one and a half episodes. Great time for this series to come out. I'm afraid that the politicians are starting to beat the war drums again. They need to be reminded how bad war really can be. 

How much better would America be right now if we would have just let the Vietnamese solve their own problems and stayed out of the country? Would rather see those American lives and taxpayer money go to improving our own country.


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## Deadeyedeek (Feb 12, 2014)

bdawg said:


> Great series so far! I've only watched one and a half episodes. Great time for this series to come out. I'm afraid that the politicians are starting to beat the war drums again. They need to be reminded how bad war really can be.
> 
> How much better would America be right now if we would have just let the Vietnamese solve their own problems and stayed out of the country? Would rather see those American lives and taxpayer money go to improving our own country.


as a 2yr vet of VN, sure was not aware of just how deep this conflict went! How far back this goes, there were a few things that jolted me, and there was a interview with a north vietnameese soldier that said they do not talk about the war at all, as most vets do also. I like alot off vets on this site have PTSD, kinda human to see how war affects all. And in war, NO ONE WINS..war sucks, allways did, allways will..Great documentry!!


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## Northern Reb (Jan 3, 2012)

Tbomb55 said:


> We could sure use him today.


If he were a two term president and continued on his same path in regards to Vietnam what would his legacy be today? 

He would have a very difficult time running for president in this day and age. The media would have destroyed him for his rampant infidelity. His families ties to the mafia would also have been a major roadblock.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Tbomb55 said:


> We could sure use him today.


No thanks.


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## ICENUT (Apr 29, 2008)

I left Vietnam but Vietnam has never left me ther isn't a day I don't think about it.The documentary is really good many things I didn't know.the next couple episodes I can relate to more was there in 69 and 70 with 3rd Marine Division on the DMZ. War is a total waste of humanity no one really wins and everyone loses.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Glad you made it back ICENUT. Thanks for your service.


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

ICENUT said:


> I left Vietnam but Vietnam has never left me ther isn't a day I don't think about it.The documentary is really good many things I didn't know.the next couple episodes I can relate to more was there in 69 and 70 with 3rd Marine Division on the DMZ. War is a total waste of humanity no one really wins and everyone loses.


Well stated.


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## Deadeyedeek (Feb 12, 2014)

Tbomb55 said:


> Well stated.


Icenut..me too.Was with a Dustoff unit on DMZ picked up a lot of your guys 68-69-70


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

bobk said:


> Glad you made it back ICENUT. Thanks for your service.


Amen to that bobk.
On that note, would like to take the opportunity to Thank all that served and sacrificed so much that I may enjoy the benefits and freedoms I have today.
You are the true Heroes of our society.
God Bless you all!


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## stormfront (Feb 18, 2016)

ICENUT said:


> I left Vietnam but Vietnam has never left me ther isn't a day I don't think about it.The documentary is really good many things I didn't know.the next couple episodes I can relate to more was there in 69 and 70 with 3rd Marine Division on the DMZ. War is a total waste of humanity no one really wins and everyone loses.


bill, we've talked on fisherie over the years and i have the utmost respect for you for bringing this message to so many. the only chance we have is for men like you to share your wisdom and experience.


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## Bassthumb (Aug 22, 2008)

Ive watched his WW2 documentery "The War" like 3 times. All 14 hours of it. I will be sure to catch this, most stuff he does is very good.


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## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

bobk said:


> Glad you made it back ICENUT. Thanks for your service.



x2!

A war we should have never gottien into if not for political issues here in the States.

Don't get me started.

BTW: My sincere thanks to those who served and the terrible treatment (unlike any other war) they received when returning to the States.

I was a young college student with a draft lottery number in the upper 300's and did not believe in the war but I never ever disrespected our troops serving or returning.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Not sure if the series is good for my blood pressure. I really have developed some hatred for LBJ, Westmoreland and McNamara.

The insanity of fighting to win a hill only to evacuate the space the next day or week....Crazy...

My prayers go out to all those impacted by that war.


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## AtticaFish (Nov 23, 2008)

I was too young to 'live through' this and it is painful learning the history. My heart and soul goes out to those who did battle through these crazy times. A big THANK YOU to all who served, i am not sure i could have. Such a world apart from the war zone to the states. After seeing such betrayal and hidden agendas from the government and determination to cover things up...... it hurts to see the likeness that leads down the road of our future in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea....... it feels like history is ready to repeat itself at any second.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Snakecharmer said:


> Not sure if the series is good for my blood pressure. I really have developed some hatred for LBJ, Westmoreland and McNamara.
> 
> The insanity of fighting to win a hill only to evacuate the space the next day or week....Crazy...
> 
> My prayers go out to all those impacted by that war.


Have studied a bit about LBJ over the years. IMO, of the big basket of vipers to ever be assembled in DC, he sits at the top of the pile.


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## icebucketjohn (Dec 22, 2005)

Guess I was a lucky guy having a draft number of *268*. I joined the Peace Corps a few years later and served in Colombia, South America.


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

OSUdaddy said:


> x2!
> 
> A war we should have never gottien into if not for political issues here in the States.
> 
> ...


It was a very small number of people who mistreated returning vets. The bulk of the protestors aimed their anger at the government and military leaders.


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## mas5588 (Apr 15, 2012)

Born in '81 so I missed out big a decent margin. However, I've always been interested in history, especially American military history. I asked some peers at work if they were watching this and they looked at me like I had two heads. I've been watching and looking forward to it every night - just wished I hadn't missed the first couple where they detailed the history and how it all started. I'm sure it'll be on again.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Tbomb55 said:


> It was a very small number of people who mistreated returning vets.


...and shame on every one of them. They are the lowest of all life forms.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

There is the 1946 movie _The Best Years of Our Lives_ dealing with WWII vets returning home

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036868/


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

crappiedude said:


> ...and shame on every one of them. They are the lowest of all life forms.


They were probably a bit upset at our tax dollars being used to firebomb peasants and too mad to rationally direct their anger at the actual perpetrators; the politicians and generals.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Tbomb55 said:


> probably a bit upset at our tax dollars being used to firebomb peasants


Not good enough, I doubt the scum bag ever had a job or even paid any taxes. Honestly don't care what he did, still no reason to ever open his mouth against the guys coming home.
I guess with logic like that I can see where people blame the teachers for the inner city kids failing in school.

Oh BTW I did use to work in a bomb dump and set up plenty of napalm for the fighters. Trust me when I say everyone over there wasn't an innocent peasant.

Still in WV and I can't get any of the series on TV over here. I think I set the recorder at home but I'm not sure. I'm really looking forward to watching the series.


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

crappiedude said:


> Not good enough, I doubt the scum bag ever had a job or even paid any taxes. Honestly don't care what he did, still no reason to ever open his mouth against the guys coming home.
> I guess with logic like that I can see where people blame the teachers for the inner city kids failing in school.
> 
> Oh BTW I did use to work in a bomb dump and set up plenty of napalm for the fighters. Trust me when I say everyone over there wasn't an innocent peasant.
> ...


Right, who cares about civilian casualties, especially when they don't look like us.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Tbomb55 said:


> Right, who cares about civilian casualties, especially when they don't look like us.


Lighten up, if no one told you it's over. I didn't start it!
What years were you there or was that you standing on the road yelling.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Here is a video from the startup of the Vietnam draft lottery. I wasn't part of this lottery but two years later.

The lottery on August 5,1971 was my lottery. I had graduated from H.S in June and was eagerly looking forward toward my freshman year at Case Western Reserve. My birthdate was drawn as #40. If I was born a day later I would have been #1. They also ended student deferments for kids born in 1952. So I went off to college knowing that if the war was still going on, I had a great chance of being drafted as the previous draft went up to #125. I believe in January of 1972 I got my letter for a pre-draft physical. I went to the Federal Building in Cleveland and passed my physical in flying colors. I did pretty well on the IQ test so I ended up having Marine and Army recruiters try to convince that Officer's candidate school would be my best opportunity or they also had some 3 or 4 year enlisted programs that they tried to tempt me with to avoid infantry....

Looking back now, I was a little surprised that my father or uncle's didn't give me any guidance at all, I think they may have be afraid to say anything one way or the other in case I followed there advice and then ended up getting killed or injured. My father and a brother were drafted and my mother's 2 brothers were also draftees. My father was a WW2 guy the rest were Korea.

I received my draft notice around April 1972 I think. I had decided to place my trust in God and had passed on enlisting. I broke up with the 1st and only girl that I had ever officially gone steady with (had given her my class ring). I was thinking I would probably get killed and didn't want her to waste her life thinking of the life she could have had. A girl that I had dated in H.S and worked with, threw me a surprise going into the Army party. Everybody tried to be upbeat and happy but I'm sure many thought they probably would never see me alive again. And I thought I probably wouldn't see them either... Scary, scary times and I was really scared.... I went off to Fort Leonard Wood Missouri on July 10, 1972. I was in the Army now....

Basic training was hell. It was a very hot summer in 1972 and Missouri was the worst. We woke to 90 degrees at 5:00 Am and super humid...I came down with ARD ( Acute Respistory Diesease) with chills and a fever. I refused to go on sick call cause I didn't want to get recycled and start the Basic Training over. Luckily I recovered. I got my advanced training assignment.....Good news/bad news.....Luckily it wasn't infantry or something close to the front line but MP school. The drill sergeant when he gave me the assignment and said something like like you're color blind aren't you? Yes. Well, you can't be a MP if your colorblind....He asked me if I wanted to wait for another set or orders. I said what's the worst that can happen? If I went to MP school for 8 weeks and then they flushed me out I would just start another training program and that would be less time on the front lines.... Well I made it through MP school and they didn't flush me out.. Initial orders were for Hawaii but they got changed at the last minute to Seneca Army Depot in upstate NY home of the white deer... No VietNam for me. God had my back.


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Snakecharmer said:


> Here is a video from the startup of the Vietnam draft lottery. I wasn't part of this lottery but two years later.
> 
> The lottery on August 5,1971 was my lottery. I had graduated from H.S in June and was eagerly looking forward toward my freshman year at Case Western Reserve. My birthdate was drawn as #40. If I was born a day later I would have been #1. They also ended student deferments for kids born in 1952. So I went off to college knowing that if the war was still going on, I had a great chance of being drafted as the previous draft went up to #125. I believe in January of 1972 I got my letter for a pre-draft physical. I went to the Federal Building in Cleveland and passed my physical in flying colors. I did pretty well on the IQ test so I ended up having Marine and Army recruiters try to convince that Officer's candidate school would be my best opportunity or they also had some 3 or 4 year enlisted programs that they tried to tempt me with to avoid infantry....
> 
> ...


Great story. But I wonder why God didn't have everybody's back.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Tbomb55 said:


> Great story. But I wonder why God didn't have everybody's back.


Sure don't have a concrete answer to that question cause anyone that has whiskers is old enough to have seen things happen that we just don't understand and makes us ask 'why'.
But is it a possibility that at that time(just like in many instances today) some were/are not looking to Him, or even considering talking to Him asking Him for His guidance?

All too often, when things go bad, God gets blamed for decisions 'man' chooses to make on their own without seeking and following His guidance....including, but not limited to... starting wars.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Tbomb55 said:


> Great story. But I wonder why God didn't have everybody's back.


Some may not have asked......


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Snakecharmer said:


> Some may not have asked......





fastwater said:


> Sure don't have a concrete answer to that question cause anyone that has whiskers is old enough to have seen things happen that we just don't understand and makes us ask 'why'.
> But is it a possibility that at that time(just like in many instances today) some were/are not looking to Him, or even considering talking to Him asking Him for His guidance?
> 
> All too often, when things go bad, God gets blamed for decisions 'man' chooses to make on their own without seeking and following His guidance....including, but not limited to... starting wars.


So when things go well, he's got our back. When things go horribly wrong blame man. Got it.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Tbomb55 said:


> So when things go well, he's got our back. When things go horribly wrong blame man. Got it.


You got it. All the complaining done on here is your own fault.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Tbomb55 said:


> So when things go well, he's got our back. When things go horribly wrong blame man. Got it.


I believe you got nothing more out of what I posted than what you chose to get. 
But I fully understand that mindset. I used to be the same way until some extreme life events taught me the hard way that I didn't have all the answers. And that there is more to this life then just going through it the best I could without seeking the guidance of my Creator.
And for what it's worth, when I was going through those extreme, unpleasant life events that were brought on by my own choices, I could have blamed God, I could have blamed those around me, heck...I could have even stretched and blamed the government.

But like Snakecharmer when he was going through his draft and military issues, I didn't. Sitting at those crossroads as to whether to feel sorry for myself and continue to think I had all the answers(of which I obviously didn't), for the 1st time in my life I made the choice to accept that there was something much greater and much wiser then I or anyone else I knew.

Today, I can assure you that the only regret I have is not making that 'choice' much earlier in my life.

FWIW...I had plenty of unanswered questions when I first made that 'choice'. Still have a bunch. But there have been so many of those questions answered over time, that that alone has proven to me the existence of a power well beyond me.

Lastly, just like you, I also know that I am free to make the choice to once again to deny that 'power' or its existence whenever I take a notion.
That's the way He designed it...didn't want robots.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

They had a nice article in the PD today on how Burns visited Kent State on April 22,2014 and was impacted so much by the visit that he decided he needed to revise the script to include more on the killing of the 4 students.
They also had a good article on the army photographer who took the photos at My Lai. He was from NE Ohio and 18 months after the massacre and subsequent coverup, he gave the photos to the Plain Dealer which was the 1st time they were published. It created a firestorm.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

crappiedude said:


> dang it...I'm in WV right now. Limited TV service here and can't remember if I set the TV to record it at home. Oh well I'll have to catch it the next time it's on.


Go to pbs.org and watch them all....


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## stormfront (Feb 18, 2016)

i can't skip this series but it sure brings back my youth with numbing and hollow memories. 58000 of my peers gone and i still wonder for what? i've nothing but good thoughts about the men and women who served there but have little good to say about those who sent them there.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

Those were some interesting articles in the Plain Dealer this weekend. It seems that there were a lot of cover ups and false information our nation's "leaders" were handing out back then. Wish I could say this has changed, but then we invaded Iraq to stop Hussien from using Weapons of Mass Destruction. Still haven't found any in Iraq! The more things change, the more they stay the same...


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

did anyone watch the legion of Brothers on CNN last night?


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

So today I learned Richard Nixon committed treason among his other sins. _ hole.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

The end for Nixon was so much better then he deserved...


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Snakecharmer said:


> So today I learned Richard Nixon committed treason among his other sins. _ hole.





fastwater said:


> The end for Nixon was so much better then he deserved...


Watched tonight's episodes because basically everyone in my Family is watching.

Rest assured - Richard Nixon is currently burning in hell.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

acklac7 said:


> Rest assured - Richard Nixon is currently burning in hell.


I know...he just didn't get there fast enough!


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## ICENUT (Apr 29, 2008)

Nixon is the one who brought me home thank god if kennedy or LBJ were there then wed still be there!!!!!! So he did do some things right


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

ICENUT said:


> Nixon is the one who brought me home thank god if kennedy or LBJ were there then wed still be there!!!!!! So he did do some things right


I was going though Basic Training as a draftee and on Aug 23,1972 Nixon gave his acceptance speech to run again in 1972. He promised he would not send anymore draftees to Vietnam. I looked at the guys who enlisted for 3 or 4 years and said guess where your 1st assignment is going to be......Many were promised 18 months in Germany but it never said whether it would be the 1st assignment or their last assignment....


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Reminds me of the Bush era, when criticizing the ultimately disastrous war in Iraq, for instance, was conflated with criticizing the troops. It was not criticizing the troops, it was criticizing government policy that put them in harms way without justification or proper planning.


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## Northern Reb (Jan 3, 2012)

Tbomb55 said:


> Reminds me of the Bush era, when criticizing the ultimately disastrous war in Iraq, for instance, was conflated with criticizing the troops. It was not criticizing the troops, it was criticizing government policy that put them in harms way without justification or proper planning.


Remind me what was disastrous about Desert Storm? 

A coalition of 30 plus countries, clearly stated goals and objectives, and a battle that was so decisive it only lasted 100 hrs. Against the worlds 4th largest military if memory serves correct.

If you think one of the most successful military battle plans the world has ever seen was disastrous then your definition of disaster and poor planning is much different than mine.


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## stormfront (Feb 18, 2016)

Northern Reb said:


> Remind me what was disastrous about Desert Storm?
> 
> A coalition of 30 plus countries, clearly stated goals and objectives, and a battle that was so decisive it only lasted 100 hrs. Against the worlds 4th largest military if memory serves correct.
> 
> If you think one of the most successful military battle plans the world has ever seen was disastrous then your definition of disaster and poor planning is much different than mine.


i believe he is talking of the invasion of iraq in 2003. different war, different decade.


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Northern Reb said:


> Remind me what was disastrous about Desert Storm?
> 
> A coalition of 30 plus countries, clearly stated goals and objectives, and a battle that was so decisive it only lasted 100 hrs. Against the worlds 4th largest military if memory serves correct.
> 
> If you think one of the most successful military battle plans the world has ever seen was disastrous then your definition of disaster and poor planning is much different than mine.


I always wondered why we didn't take on the Republican Guard?


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## 21938 (Feb 17, 2010)

acklac7 said:


> Watched tonight's episodes because basically everyone in my Family is watching.
> 
> Rest assured - Richard Nixon is currently burning in hell.


Maybe so, but the guy that ok'd the use of napalm and agent orange and didn't get out of it because he was concerned about the '64 election ought suffer the same consequence.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Tbomb55 said:


> Reminds me of the Bush era, *when criticizing* the ultimately disastrous war in Iraq, for instance, was conflated with criticizing the troops. It was not *criticizing* the troops, *it was criticizing* government policy that put them in harms way without justification or proper planning.


I asked a few posts back if you served in the military. Since you didn't answer I'd have to assume you didn't.
For some reason it seems as if *you are pretty critical of the folks who walked before you *while you yourself have not put anything of yourself on the line. It's easy I guess to sit back and just complain, it a lot tougher to go out and try to fix what's wrong. Sometimes when your ass is on the line the situation will look a lot different. If all you have to do is criticize it be comes chronic complaining (anyone remember the "whiners" on SNL). No one can change the past.
This whole thread is about a reminder to watch a documentary about an era that is etched in the minds and hearts of a lot of families. Hell we who actually lived it, we know it was a mess. Being an armchair quarterback about the rights or wrongs of VN is a little late here.
On another note....he thread isn't about God or the lack of God. IMO that is a personal opinion which is for each to decided for yourself, it doesn't belong here. If you believe it doesn't mean you're a good person, doesn't make you bad if you don't.

For me... I got home last night and saw I did in fact set the DVR to record the series. I can wait to watch it.


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

Okay Gent's...let's keep it to the content of the documentary without the personal attacks and ragging on government officials.

Thanks


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## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

crappiedude said:


> I asked a few posts back if you served in the military. Since you didn't answer I'd have to assume you didn't.
> For some reason it seems as if *you are pretty critical of the folks who walked before you *while you yourself have not put anything of yourself on the line. It's easy I guess to sit back and just complain, it a lot tougher to go out and try to fix what's wrong. Sometimes when your ass is on the line the situation will look a lot different. If all you have to do is criticize it be comes chronic complaining (anyone remember the "whiners" on SNL). No one can change the past.
> This whole thread is about a reminder to watch a documentary about an era that is etched in the minds and hearts of a lot of families. Hell we who actually lived it, we know it was a mess. Being an armchair quarterback about the rights or wrongs of VN is a little late here.
> On another note....he thread isn't about God or the lack of God. IMO that is a personal opinion which is for each to decided for yourself, it doesn't belong here. If you believe it doesn't mean you're a good person, doesn't make you bad if you don't.
> ...


You don't know what you're talking about.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm a proud Marine, and I have to agree with Tbomb (I just gagged a little) on this. While I have much respect (as does he) for those who habe walked before me and signed that lone knowing what it may mean, we shouldn't be fighting in half of the wars we end up in. 

However we go where were told. We don't ask questions. We fight for our brothers next to us and our families waiting at home, not the corruption and greed that places us in that situation.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

beaver said:


> we shouldn't be fighting in half of the wars we end up in.


Yep, got to agree with you and Tbomb on this.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Watched some of the show,knew the history all the way back to Eisenhower and the French,along with the Dutch! 68 to 72, two tours deep in in blood and guts and a stench that I will never forget!I was Not there for God, Country, or the Flag! I was there for my Brothers in harms way.My draft # was 63,and I knew That I was going to be drafted,my Mother worked the polls and I caught her one night watching over me and crying, because she already knew, that I was drafted! I joined the Navy and became an air rescue corpsman,Coronado beach was tough.Served with Marines in 3 corps and 4 corps,90 day's tad.Then on to air rescue off the coast of North Vietnam. To cover and rescue airmen from Alpha Strikes over Hanoi. Stirred up a a lot of old memories.During my four years I studied political science and what i learned just turned my stomach, knowing how little our leaders cared about the people who actually did their dirty work for them,and knowing that I was in fact,at one point an integral part of this.Ken does an excellent job! However Vietnam goes much farther back then the French.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

On the flip side of this, there are many things that I remember, that sometimes I wonder why do I even remember that? ! One is the number of my M-16,#4017. And that the M-1911 was a re- issued side arm with a peace symbol carved inside the right slide arm.And the 45 ammo was dated in 1951 (I Was 1year old )? C- rations and k - rations from WWII and Korea! We would ask each other if this s*! t was still good to eat? But we ate it anywa! Dysentery was the norm, so who gave a [email protected]! t? We all did.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

JamesF said:


> C- rations and k - rations from WWII and Korea


I used to wonder if it was good too, it was almost 30 years old.


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## Northern Reb (Jan 3, 2012)

Overall I believe the documentary is on par with Ken Burns' other documentaries and they are all very good.

There have been just a few things I wish he would have changed or included.

1) Almost no discussion on the tunnels used by the VC. They were a major advantage the enemy utilized and the US really never understood how elaborate they were....even under major American military bases. The Tunnels of Cu Chi is an amazing book which discusses how elaborate they were and the US tunnel rats who fought in them.

2) Only a brief reference to the battle of Khe Sanh. 

3) I understand the hippies made the news reels back then, but most Americans (even college age) did not think of them very favorably. I see a lot of similarities between how polarized the country is currently and how it was then. 

4) Last night when speaking about race issues in Vietnam they showed multiple images of what was referred to as the Confederate flag. The flag shown was the battle flag used by the Army of Northern Virginia and it is often times falsely labeled. Ken Burns knows the difference between the two. He either shouldn't have included the sound bites or the narrator should have corrected the mistaken comments.


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## afeef745 (Feb 11, 2013)

Just saw this thread. Great documentary. If you missed an episode or two, dont sweat it. They are available on PBS website at the link below:
http://www.pbs.org/shows/


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

My Brother in law, was at An Khe, when Martin Luther king Jr was assassinated. I don't recall any reference of the racial tensions that followed.He said that no one walked alone, nor took any short cuts between tents or bunkers. He also said that being in an Airborne division, he felt somewhat more secure. I know that one officers bunker was fragged, and that he died a few days later. The trial was still ongoing when I arrived in country, a total of seven where in custody, under Marine guards, instead of the Army MP'S. Two Marines from our unit where transferred to guard duty. A lot of things took place in one form or another.


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## ICENUT (Apr 29, 2008)

As good as the documentary is it gives the impression that the servicemen were mostly poor black on drugs ect and fragging was commonplace. The units I was in were anything but .Yes poor,yes middle class and even some rich kids all races.we were as professional as you can get I'm sure some of the stuff happened in later units but it didn't in any of mine. I just hate when Vietnam Vets are portrayed as villans.We were just kids doing our job supporting our country and I still believe that today. Its the politicans that were the villans, think think trump is bad How about Kennedy and LBJ and slime ball Kissenger, trump is a saint compared to those boys!!!!


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Boy did Agnew get burned by that black girl in the debate with the college kids. What a dufuss.....

Glad to see the draft dodger had some remorse about leaving the country.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

The demonstrations, during the 60's, were the beginning of mass media. In most part fueled by the nightly news, and outside influence, hitting the American families with fear and doubt is an age old strategy that can have a very powerful effect. I think that this is portrayed through out the series.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Guys (especially Vets of the War), it is worth the trip to see the Vietnam Memorial in DC and also visit Arlington. Seeing the Wall in person and realizing that each name represents a fallen hero and a mourning family, a lost friend, a life too short. 

Thanks PBS for a great series.


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## tur71 (Jun 14, 2008)

Just finished watching the 10th part of the Viet Nam War documentary.Watched every episode.The best ,most informative program on the war I've seen on TV in a long time.Learned a lot of things about the war and our government that I didn't know.I had several friends and relatives who served over there.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

There is another documentary film, along the same lines, over lapping the Vietnam war. It's a true movie. Only it takes place in Cambodia. "First they killed my father"" I was surprised by it, because the only other depiction of this was "The Killing Fields".The only reason I knew about this was the fact that we were not allowed to talk about the U.S. involvement in Cambodia and Laos.I knew that our contributions was to keep a promise to the French, going back to the end WWII and its growing export of rubber and rice from what has been known as the French Indonesian territories. All of this was just about money. Don't shoot a rubber tree! Unless you want to buy it! By the time I got there that rule had been abandoned.The entire region was like the wild west! Looking back, I can understand the plight of the people. The movie is well worth watching.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

JamesF said:


> There is another documentary film, along the same lines, over lapping the Vietnam war. It's a true movie. Only it takes place in Cambodia. "First they killed my father"" I was surprised by it, because the only other depiction of this was "The Killing Fields".The only reason I knew about this was the fact that we were not allowed to talk about the U.S. involvement in Cambodia and Laos.I knew that our contributions was to keep a promise to the French, going back to the end WWII and its growing export of rubber and rice from what has been known as the French Indonesian territories. All of this was just about money. Don't shoot a rubber tree! Unless you want to buy it! By the time I got there that rule had been abandoned.The entire region was like the wild west! Looking back, I can understand the plight of the people. The movie is well worth watching.


Looks like I should be able to watch it on Netflixs


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## snag (Dec 27, 2005)

I saw that the documentary is back on this week. For anybody that missed it .


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

There is another excellent documentary on right now on National Geographic Channel(NGC) and will be playing again tonight at 11pm and again Sat 11/4 @ 9pm.
Combat stories of "Charlie Company" one of the last American combat infantry companies to be drafted.


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## MIGHTY (Sep 21, 2013)

Had a family dinner the other night and afterwards I was chatting with my dad and uncle about all of our family that had served. Mostly WWII stuff since I’ve grown very interested in it over the last 10 or so years and my dad and uncle have been passing down things to me that my grandfathers kept. My dad was drafted in 1970 and all my brother and I had ever known growing up was that he was in the army at one time but he never talked about anything service related. I didn’t even know he was army medic until about 3 years ago. He was very close friends with a man who had some kind of responsibility on a helicopter during the conflict and some years after it ended they got together to catch up. My dad told us some pretty graphic stuff that his friend had shared with him about transporting captured Vietnamese troops in those hueys.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

MIGHTY said:


> Had a family dinner the other night and afterwards I was chatting with my dad and uncle about all of our family that had served. Mostly WWII stuff since I’ve grown very interested in it over the last 10 or so years and my dad and uncle have been passing down things to me that my grandfathers kept. My dad was drafted in 1970 and all my brother and I had ever known growing up was that he was in the army at one time but he never talked about anything service related. I didn’t even know he was army medic until about 3 years ago. He was very close friends with a man who had some kind of responsibility on a helicopter during the conflict and some years after it ended they got together to catch up. My dad told us some pretty graphic stuff that his friend had shared with him about transporting captured Vietnamese troops in those hueys.


Your father had a tough job seeing/helping all those wounded GI's. Has he gone to DC to the Memorial? I was drafted 2 years behind him just missing Viet Nam


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## MIGHTY (Sep 21, 2013)

Not that I know of snakecharmer. Like I said, growing up he never talked about anything service related. He knows I’ve taken a lot of interest in military history and doing research about all of my different family members who have served, but we mostly just talk about his dad, his uncle, his grandfather, and my grandfather on my moms side along with his 3 brothers but has never once talked about anything he experienced. A few years ago he gave me a scrapbook his grandfather put together in France during WWI. It has pictures of family from my dads side going all the way back to the civil war. Military history is incredibly interesting. I’d love to visit the memorial in DC and I’ve been thinking of taking a trip by myself to check out some of the old vessels from WWII that have been turned into museums as both of my grandfathers were navy veterans.


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## All Thumbs (Apr 11, 2004)

when i first saw the memorial on tv and pics i did not think i would like it. while on business i visited the memorial with a vet that was in Afghanistan. his uncle was on the wall and he was moved to tears. the whole experience was very inspirational and i saw the real beauty of the memorial. it is a must see experience.


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