# Whats better??



## billybob7059 (Mar 27, 2005)

Whats better carbon or aluminum arrows for a crossbow??? 

And fix or expandable blades???


----------



## CHOPIQ (Apr 6, 2004)

I've used alum bolts for my crossbow for years and have never had a problem. As for broadheads I've only used fixed blades, 100 grain 3 bladed Muzzys, and have not had a problem with them. I've heard to many stories of mechanicals failing to open or opening to soon. I'm sure there will be some disagreement on them but try them both and judge for yourself.


----------



## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

I use the same set up as Chopiq does even the same tips. I've also heard of the blades not opening as they are suppose to. I know each hunter has his own ideas of what he's happy with. Use what shots best for you is the best advise I could give.


----------



## doegirl (Feb 24, 2005)

Indeed, you have alot of latitude here in what will work. Crossbows aren't as "picky" about broadhead-arrow combinations as compound bows are. I use 10pt proelite (carbon) arrows and 100grain spitfires.


----------



## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

Years ago I had a mechanical broadhead cost me a buck that would have pushed 160-170 inch typical. Well needless to say I will never use those pieces of junk again. I am a muzzy fan to my grave. I have shot probably 6 deer with them since I switched to them and all shots have been pass throughs.


----------



## kasting king (Aug 17, 2006)

i bought my wife a cross bow last year and tried to site in with muzzys both 3 and 4 blade and 100 to 125 grain and the best group i could come up with was mabey the size of the hood of my truck. they flew every which way and didnt even group. i use spitfire heads also, and have never had any prolbems. if the broad head gets wet and doesnt dry propely they become almost impossible to open, so be careful i started shooting a new head last janurary and was very impressed cant find the box but i think it was a tieton but i will find out, flyes just like a field point. cuts like a razor


----------



## bgpark1 (Apr 23, 2004)

on the crossbow issue... i used some half moon knocks on my tenpoint xbow and they were all over... couldn't get them flying right regardless of tuning and knock adjusting... switched to strait knock... bulls eye.... so that might be some of the issue you were having.... I also prefer aluminum bolts... fly about the same... and cost less... found out the weights is about the same.. had some weighed... the aluminum ended up lighter... small Fixed blades are ideal for me... the way i see it... small or large... right shot doesn't matter the size... deer is going down... larger the blades more contact of branches or breakage due to more bone hit is possible... and while cleaning don't want to worry about such things... mechanicals are just something else to go wrong and dont hold up as well on multi shots.... just my two sense... keep it simple and dont buy into all the hype... good luck.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Many people switch to mechanicals to mask tuning issues with their bows, both crossbows and compounds.

If you can't get fixed blade broadheads to fly and group properly you have a problem either with the bow tune or the arrow tune. Shooting a mechanical will only mask the problem somewhat it doesn't eliminate it.

Tune your bow properly and balance your broadheads and you can shot just about any broadhead you desire.


----------



## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

Lundy is again right on the money. Kasting King, I would take your bow in to a good archery shop. If a bow will not shoot fixed blades either the bow is out of tune or the broadheads were never tuned. 

I hear alot of guys complain about there bow not shooting broadheads good but fieldpoints are on the money. I asked them if they tuned their broadheads and they give you a DUMB look and ask what do you mean tuned broadheads?

Scott


----------



## doegirl (Feb 24, 2005)

I betchya most "failures" with mechanicals can be traced to user error. Kind a like anything else. There are plenty of photos on the NAP website of dead elk and moose that succumbed to a mechanical (spitfire in this case.). Either these people are really foolish and lucky, or knowledgable and lucky. Take your pick.
However, if I weren't shooting Spitfires, I would be shooting WASP SST's


----------



## kasting king (Aug 17, 2006)

my bow shoots muzzys fine, i just have to adjust the blades to line up with the vanes. it sometimes can be a pain using those little rubber washers to get everything to line up. i went back to shooting spitfires last year because local bowshop ran out of muzzys. anyone ever had trouble shooting thunderheads?


----------



## Guest (Aug 28, 2006)

Ok I will be the dumb one, How in the world do you tune a broadhead? I have been having horrible troubles with my bow, and spend alot of $$$$$$$$$ on broadheads and arrows.


----------



## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

> doegirl
> I betchya most "failures" with mechanicals can be traced to user error. Kind a like anything else. There are plenty of photos on the NAP website of dead elk and moose that succumbed to a mechanical (spitfire in this case.). Either these people are really foolish and lucky, or knowledgable and lucky. Take your pick.
> However, if I weren't shooting Spitfires, I would be shooting WASP SST's


I can't see that most would be user error. As long as the little band is on or the blades clipped in, which would be hard to screw up, then then shouldn't be anything else a person could do to cause it to fail. I personally killed a couple with mechanicals, but lost one so I switched. Anyhow I think there is too much room for error with mechanicals. With a fixed blade you can get penetration even at extreme angles.


----------



## Fish4Food (Mar 20, 2006)

I have killed deer with both mechanical, and fixed blade broadheads. I have killed deer with a crossbow shooting both carbon and aluminum arrows. Both will get the job done if you hit a deer in the right spot. Yes, with carbon arrows you will have less flex upon impact, which will deliver more foot pounds of energy to the deer, but you should shoot whatever you shoot best out of your bow.
But as far as broadheads go, I now shoot the Magnus Stinger 4 blade out of my compoud, and am convinced that whatever broadhead you are shooting, the ones you will get the most penetration with are the cut on contact broadheads. They work wonderfully.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Traphunter,

Your issues with broadhead flight could be a bunch of different bow tune issues, but it is pretty easy to eliminate the arrows as the source of you problems.

If you are shooting aluminum arrows with inserts that are hot melted into the end of the arrows it's a very easy check and fix,

Put the tip of the broadhead down on a piece of glass or other hard smooth surface. Spin the arrow as fast as you can, does the broadhead wobble? If it does, and it most likely does if they have never been tuned, take a propane torch and heat the end of the arrow just enough to allow you to turn the broadhead and insert inside the shaft. Rotate the insert by turning the broadhead (wear a leather glove to protect your hands from the blades and heat) in he direction to tighten the broadhead. This will spin the insert. Turn it 1/4 turn and spin test again. repeat this process until you find the sweet spot that the broadhead has no wobble during your spin test. Repeat this process for all of your arrows.

If you tune a dozen shafts and broadheads you will most likely end up with one or two that no matter how many time you adjust them they never will spin perfect. I mark these and use them for practice. I number all of my arrows based upon the spin test keeping the absolute best just for shooting a deer.

Why is necessary and what does it actually do? The inserts are not a press fit and have some tolerances from the OD to the ID of the arrow. They are not always perfectly straight when installed and you can and do have larger hot melt deposits on one side of the insert than the other. The heating and rotating process, and checking by spinning, eliminates those variables.

Why is it so important to arrow flight?. An arrow is meant to be stabilized and steered by the vanes. If you are a broadhead (fixed blade) that is not true to the centerline of the arrow the overcenter rotation detracts from the ability of the vanes to do their intended function. The broadhead is trying to do the steering and groups will not be good. This is where a mechanical broadhead shines. With the less surface area to act as control surfaces (steering) they are much less effected by out of tune issues, both bow and arrow. The out of tune issues still exist, but their impact is reduced by the smaller profile.

Add one more issue that are inherent to crossbows. Most crossbows shoot a straight fletch or very minimal helical fletch. remember that the fletching is designed to stabilize and steer the arrow. A helical fletch that is most commonly used on compounds and stick bows spins the arrow during flight to provide maximum stabilization, much like a tight spiral on a football. If the control of the fetching is being overridden by the broadhead the arrow can and will go all over the place. That is why careful consideration needs to be made when choosing the best fletching to match your desired broadhead. A compound shooter shooting a release aid and a mechanical broadhead can shoot a pretty small fletching and even less helical. A compound shooter shooting with his fingers and using a large fixed blade broadhead will require much larger fletching and more helical to control the arrow. Your arrow must be controlled by the fletching! The broadhead manufacturers started making most broadheads vented blade broadheads a bunch of year ago to reduce the control surfaces. You could shoot a huge,non vented blade broadhead, and never tune the broadheads and get very consistent groups, BUT you would need to shoot huge fletching to ensure the arrow control is from the fletching, not the broadhead. It is much easier and more practical to just tune you set up

Because most crossbows use a straight fletch and can't depend on a helical (spin) fletch for added stabilization it's even more important that the broadheads be as perfectly tuned (lined up with the centerline of the shaft) as possible to prevent the broadhead from determining the flight path versus the fletching. Out of tune broadheads account for the vast majority of broahead group issues, especially with crossbows.

One last point, lining your blades up with your fletching serves no purpose at all. It doesn't matter where your blades are in relation to your fletching, The fletching steers and the broadhead is just along for the ride, or should be anyway.

This is why I posted earlier that many will go to mechanicals, it helps mask other tuning issues but does not eliminate the underlying root causes to begin with.

I hope this makes some sense to you.

Kim


----------



## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

Awesome post Kim...you pretty much nailed everything.


----------



## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Great post Kim - as usual a wealth of knowledge. 

Spinning the broadhead tipped arrow was one of the first tricks I learned and just become a habit over time. Very easy to do and makes a huge difference!


----------



## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I almost posted a response to this a little bit ago but then thought to myself, "Hopefully Lundy will field this one." There is no doubt that I could not have explained that anywhere near as effectively as you have done.

One thing that Kim did not mention that may be worth looking at is the balance point of your arrows. Having a broadhead that is too heavy can be a major factor in this. There are several links that I have found in the past that talk about the balance point. Here is one that I just now found that explains it a bit.

Perfect Broadhead Flight

I think the points that Kim touched on are the most major factors but before someone gets too far into tuning they can first determine if their arrow's balance point is within the acceptable range. If not they may want to change broadheads or fletching.


----------



## Guest (Sep 29, 2006)

sorry for such a late reply, I jsut now found this again. THank you so much both of you for your answers. They are much appreciated.


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

I agree with Lundy. Its in the tuning or arrow spine wt maybe too light. Try different arrows in case the insert isn't put in straight on your practice arrow. Good Luck. Little things mean alot when shooting broad heads.


----------



## VW Angler (Feb 15, 2005)

I'm curious if arrow or bolt tuning is something a person can get done at a good bow shop if you dont have the confidence to do it yourself.


----------



## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

I buy my arrows from portage archery. I buy either gold tips or beeman carbons by the dozen. I have them put broadheads on 6 and pay a little extra for them to tune them. They have a tool that measures the amount of adjusting and actually tweeks the head and insert to make it true. When they tune my broadheads they fly with my field points! not always the case when I tune them myself. but it is money well spent for me.


----------

