# Simms is probably done.



## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

😔





Simms Fishing Products sold for $192.5 million


Simms Fishing Products was reportedly acquired by Vista Outdoor Inc. on Wednesday for $192.5 million.




www.kbzk.com





It's the last part. 'investors' or 'shareholders' destroy companies. Look what they did to Cabela's. 
largely recession-resistant over time. With a beloved, household name brand like Simms leading the way, we believe that we can create a fishing platform that serves the 55 million+ anglers while delivering long-term growth and value for our shareholders for years to come


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## bowhunter1487 (Aug 13, 2014)

Vista has a huge portfolio of outdoor companies and the Cabelas comparison doesn't really work because the core economics of retail vs. manufacturing are apples and oranges. The Cabelas family saw it in the cards that retail was a dying business and got out at the right time. 

Investors destroy companies? What company doesn't have investors?


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

bowhunter1487 said:


> Vista has a huge portfolio of outdoor companies and the Cabelas comparison doesn't really work because the core economics of retail vs. manufacturing are apples and oranges. The Cabelas family saw it in the cards that retail was a dying business and got out at the right time.
> 
> Investors destroy companies? What company doesn't have investors?


Yeah no. Cabela's is a good comparison. Cabela's was largely a mail order company for many years. Only in the last 20 or so did they start opening up stores. They had a few floating around prior but not many. Corporate greed will take over Simms. Quality will go down while still pretending to be a premium brand. Manufacturing will most likely eventually be sent to Asia. It may not happen overnight, but it will happen.


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## bowhunter1487 (Aug 13, 2014)

If all public companies are bad and capital investment ruins everything maybe you would prefer living in North Korea or Cuba. 

Manufacturers often use capital investment to expand capacity or build out new product lines so you can probably expect more from Simms in the coming years. Similar to what Vista is doing with Stone Glacier. SG took Vista's investment to start/expand their clothing line and I'm sure Kurt got a nice fat payday, good for him.

In the 90's Cabelas was pretty much THE one place to go for fishing and hunting gear besides your local mom and pop. It was basically a monopoly for a good decade or so for Midwestern hunting and fishing gear. Southerners of course had Bass Pro. 

Then eCommerce comes along in the 00's and suddenly they have 10's of thousands of competitors within a few years. Lots of websites to go to for gear now, and better quality as more and more niches arised. 

Cabelas saw the writing on the wall that their mail order/web business was facing serious headwinds, and attempted to stay afloat by investing in the massive brick and mortar retail stores that were as much an experience as they were a place to shop. Much like Sears and Montgomery Wards, they had a good business model for a time, but its time ran its course. The all-in on brick and mortar investment call was probably not a good one, but hindsight is 20/20.

Blame capitalism if you want but times change and that's simply what happened to Cabelas. Drawing a connection purely based on capital structure is false logic and gross oversimplification.

The one argument you probably do have is that they'll probably continue to shift manufacturing to overseas. I don't follow Simms super closely but I believe they do make a good bit overseas already and just make some premium products in Montana but I'd have to research that further to be sure. In general if buying made in USA is a virtue you follow, you should probably look to smaller boutique manufacturers because that model is really difficult to scale, unfortunately.


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

If quality goes down, it opens opportunities for the smaller guys who make great products do well. I'm all for capitalism, and yes it does eat its young and regenerates new growth opportunities. No, I'm not for outsourcing to other countries.


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

Good grief. No one is blaming capitalism. This is the opposite of capitalism. This happens all the time. Cabela's is just one example. Another one is YUM brands. When they take over, quality goes to crap. These aren't really 'investors', these are people buying up productive business and draining them for every last cent they can get. Watch, it's going to happen. But will the fishing community pit up with it? That part remains to be seen.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Patricio said:


> It's the last part. 'investors' or 'shareholders' destroy companies. Look what they did to Cabela's.


Yep, first thing that I thought when I saw the announcement……they are done.

Everything that I have purchased from Simms has been of high quality and long lasting. I fully expect the new owners to prioritize short term profit for investors over maintaining the quality of the brand. Now is the time to buy anything you need/want from Simms…..this time next year it will be disposable Chinese junk.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

How often does Private Equity.....or a large conglomerate that is publicly held or privately owned.....take over a company or business and actually make the product better or more affordable?
Very rarely, me thinks.


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## 18inchBrown (May 1, 2016)

The people that ran Simms just wanted the cash. Maybe the decision makers are old? Simms had made things in China in the past.
My flyweight waders that I bought last August have leaked since the beginning. I don't know anything about the new owners but there will be one of two futures. They will run the business as is. Are they keeping management? Or they will milk the assets and sell it off. What is their management plan going forward?


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

I don't own a lot of Simms gear but I like what I have. My knee-jerk reaction to this news is that it cheapens their brand.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

All brick and mortar stores have taken a hit because of the internet. With everybody going to Amazon brick and mortar stores are doomed. I do not shop Amazon as they are a monopoly and I try to support small stores .


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

Rooster said:


> Yep, first thing that I thought when I saw the announcement……they are done.
> 
> Everything that I have purchased from Simms has been of high quality and long lasting. I fully expect the new owners to prioritize short term profit for investors over maintaining the quality of the brand. Now is the time to buy anything you need/want from Simms…..this time next year it will be disposable Chinese junk.


The Simms crowd are very fickle me thinks. One reason they supported Simms is because they're dedication to the trout and their habitat. This has also kept orvis in the fishing game even when they changed. Though I think they sell more dog beds that fly rods these days.


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

Ron Y said:


> All brick and mortar stores have taken a hit because of the internet. With everybody going to Amazon brick and mortar stores are doomed. I do not shop Amazon as they are a monopoly and I try to support small stores .


Disagree. They keep opening up more sierras here and they're doing well or otherwise they wouldn't order them. Which pisses me off because their selection is different from location to location and they'll always s have deals not available on their website. Some physical stores are doing quite well.


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

Sierra is TJ Maxx. Everything changes from store to store and daily. No store selection is alike. It's not dick's or any other store....


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## buck16on (Feb 10, 2014)

Patricio said:


> 😔
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> ...


Actually, the start of the end to Cabela's was due to estate taxes and sadly happens to countless family-owned businesses. The family elder(s) is Company rich but cash poor and if they die the heirs will have to sell the Company to have the cash to pay the estate taxes. So in planning for that some sell part of the Company to un-related people or entities. The Cabela's family sold part of it to investment bankers as part of their advised estate planning. Unfortunately, eventually the way the Family was running the business was not generating the return the investment banker wanted and that's when it was sold to Bass Pro Shops. Estate Taxes hurt orphans and grandchildren and are anti-green and anti-family-owned businesses. I saw more wooded beautiful land sold to get cash to pay estate taxes than you could ever imagine and usually the highest bidder was a developer who cut down all the trees and built either a retail stirp or cluster homes. Those who support estate taxes must really hate orphans, grandchildren, wooded land and family-owned businesses and I just don't understand their hate.


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## Backwater (Aug 13, 2006)

Thousands of family farms have gone up in smoke because of estate taxes. Farmers are rich in land, but usually carry heavy debt each year to finance equipment, seed, fertilizer, etc. When the land owner dies, they pass their property down to their sons, who then have to come up with sometimes millions of dollars to pay the estate taxes. Most can't afford it, and have to sell the property, usually at a reduced prce to either a farming conglomerate, or a land developer. Either way, the sons who have worked the land their entire lives are out on their ear with whatever is left after they pay the estate taxes. Why do we have estate taxes? Because our governments (Local, State, and Federal) spend money they don't have on all sorts of social programs (public housing, low income housing, school lunch programs, child care programs, college tuition, mothers milk, free cheese, food stamps, obamacare, etc etc) for folks who don't work or pay taxes. When we change parties, and vote in conservatives, we still keep all the social programs and add more spending on Military Weapons, foreign aid, tax relief for investment bankers, business grants, local spending on parks & recreation, public art, public pavilions like the Fraze In Kettering etc. In the city where I live, Kettering, OH, they received a windfall of over $82 Million in Estate Taxes from one family, that had the misfortune of residing in our fair city when their father died. That money has been spent over the years on new government buildings, three new multi million dollar fire houses that weren't necessary, new bridges with all sorts of fancy and expensive art work, really nice parks, where they pay lawn care companies to plant and replant new flowers about four times during the spring and summer months, etc... I think we need less government and lower taxes of every kind - including the Estate Tax. (at all levels of government). Just my opinion....


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## zimmerj (Oct 17, 2014)

Don't family trusts mitigate massive estate taxes?


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

They need to give it to the kids early enough so they beat the estate taxes.


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