# new to reloading



## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Hello all I had a couple questions about reloading. I have most of the equipment but need to get my dies and a way we go. I got a tumbler to clean brass with but is it prefered to remove the spent primers when cleaning them up? Also I've heard people clean the finished reloaded rounds to get the lube off of them. Is this safe for a loaded round? I was planing on reloading some .380 auto rounds and from my studys the 9mm and the .380 bullet size is the same so is it ok to use the heavier 9mm bullet if I can get the right recipe? I'm mainly just target shooting and want to reload so I can shoot more often without paying $22.00 per 50 rounds at the store. If anybody knows any good .380 target recipes i'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance!


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

I would knock the spent primer out if anything it would help clean out your primer pocket. I have never loaded 380 myself(havent had one in 20yrs) I know they are the same diameter..but I would wonder what kind of velocity you would get from a 115-124gr bullet in a 380, I would also wonder if since the bullets are obviously bigger in weight are they longer as well?? which might lead to a issue with your OAL and feeding problems in your gun.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Hello thank you for your response. I figured you would want too knock them out to get that area clean as well. I imagined as well they may be a touch longer but with the right powder and recipe I figured it may be doable. I've browsed a few recipes that used a .120 grain bullet in a .380. 

120 grain Lead RN (.355" dia)
Bullseye 1.6 gr. 602
Bullseye 2.1 gr. 748 (MAX)
Red Dot 1.6 gr. 618 
Red Dot 2.1 gr. 765 (MAX) 
IMR 700-X 1.4 gr. 614 
IMR 700-X 1.9 gr. 751 (MAX)
Green Dot 1.7 gr. 618 
Green Dot 2.3 gr. 761 (MAX) 
HP38/W231 2.1 gr. 721 (Consider 3.0 grains Near MAXIMUM)
HP38/W231 3.2 gr. 941 (MAX)(Heavy Load-careful) 
Unique 2.2 gr. 633 
Unique 2.8 gr. 782 (MAX) 

Thanks in advance!


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

Why would you want to shoot a heavier bullets like that in a 380?? just curious. If you are going to shoot a 380 regular then reloading is the only way to go, 380 around here is scarce and expensive, most shops who have it have a 1 box limit.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

The main reason is cost. I've seen some pretty cheap digging around online. A box of 50 are about $22 minus tax at buckeye outdoors in Hebron. I don't believe they had a limit though.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

Vances here in Columbus wanted like $25 a box about 2-3 months ago and had a 1 box limit. They are related to Buckeye, maybe things have loosened up a bit since then and there is no need for the limit. I can get 9MM all day everyday at Walmart for $9.50 a box.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Last I seen the 9mm rounds were about $13.00 at walmart in Heath.


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## Ken G (Apr 9, 2004)

You might as well leave the spent primers in the cases when you tumble your brass. Removing them will not get the primer pockets any cleaner and since you aren't loading match grade ammo there is no need to clean the primer pocket. If you remove the primers first you then have to recheck and sometimes clean every flash hole to get the cleaning media out of the hole.

When you buy your dies spend a couple extra bucks and get carbide dies. You don't have to lube the cases so you won't have to clean them after loading.

I also don't see any advantage in shooting heavier bullets in a .380 unless you can get a deal on them. 95 and 100 grain bullets are generally cheaper than 115's or 124's. Heavier bullets may have slightly less felt recoil but they also may be less accurate but I don't know if that would be measurable at 5 - 10 yards. My loading books show the heavier bullets using a shorter OAL but the pressures are lower due to lower powder charges.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

magneto259 said:


> Last I seen the 9mm rounds were about $13.00 at walmart in Heath.


That might be the WWB or the Remington UMC..but the Federal Champion is $9.47, its all over the Columbus area.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Ken G said:


> You might as well leave the spent primers in the cases when you tumble your brass. Removing them will not get the primer pockets any cleaner and since you aren't loading match grade ammo there is no need to clean the primer pocket. If you remove the primers first you then have to recheck and sometimes clean every flash hole to get the cleaning media out of the hole.
> 
> When you buy your dies spend a couple extra bucks and get carbide dies. You don't have to lube the cases so you won't have to clean them after loading.
> 
> I also don't see any advantage in shooting heavier bullets in a .380 unless you can get a deal on them. 95 and 100 grain bullets are generally cheaper than 115's or 124's. Heavier bullets may have slightly less felt recoil but they also may be less accurate but I don't know if that would be measurable at 5 - 10 yards. My loading books show the heavier bullets using a shorter OAL but the pressures are lower due to lower powder charges.


I was planning on getting carbide dies for that reason. What loading books do you use? I have one that i've been studying and i seen lots of recipes online. Do you recommend having multiple books to get the best load choices? Thanks!


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## Ken G (Apr 9, 2004)

I have an old Sierra manual, "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee, and the 49th edition of the Lyman reloading handbook. I shoot a lot of lead and plated bullets in my handguns and the Lee and Lyman manuals have lead data in them. I usually use the lead data for plated bullets. I also use a Reloader's Reference that I downloaded and is available here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/reloadersrfrnce/

The different powder manufacturers also have pamphlets or online load data but they can be pretty bullet specific. Between all of the above I generally can find a starting load and usually don't increase it much above the minimums. I don't see the sense in beating myself or the gun up with heavier loads, they don't make any bigger hole in the paper.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

Dont be surprised if when you get a couple different manuals they show different load data. One book might list like 5-6grs of powder X as being a max load for a certain round..then the next manual you look at might say that 8grs is a max load with the same powder and bullet weight.


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## Rednek (Nov 6, 2006)

Are you going to be using a progressive or single-stage press?

The #1 rule in reloading is to keep your distractions to a minimum. Especially when reloading pistol cartridges. With the small powder charge that a typical pistol case uses it is very easy to over-charge the powder without the visible effects of powder falling out of the case as most any double charge would in a rifle case.

If you are using a single stage press perform each step of the process on multiple cases before moving to the next step and use a reloading tray to hold the cases during the process.

Let's stay you have trimmed, chamferred, cleaned and resized 50 cases.

1. Prime the 50 cases and put them in a reloading tray.
2. Powder charge the 50 cases and put them back in the reloading tray. (Periodically weight the powder charge to make sure it is still correct) 
*3. VISUALLY* inspect *EVERY* case with a flashlight to insure the proper powder charge.
4. Seat the bullet in all 50 cases
5. Crimp the case. (If necessary)

As for your question regarding tumbling the cases. I normally tumble them twice. Once before resizing and once after resizing. Before to keep the crud out of the sizing dies and after to remove any case lube.

Enjoy and Be Safe! Never start out with loading at maximum charges.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Ken G said:


> I have an old Sierra manual, "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee, and the 49th edition of the Lyman reloading handbook. I shoot a lot of lead and plated bullets in my handguns and the Lee and Lyman manuals have lead data in them. I usually use the lead data for plated bullets. I also use a Reloader's Reference that I downloaded and is available here:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/reloadersrfrnce/
> 
> The different powder manufacturers also have pamphlets or online load data but they can be pretty bullet specific. Between all of the above I generally can find a starting load and usually don't increase it much above the minimums. I don't see the sense in beating myself or the gun up with heavier loads, they don't make any bigger hole in the paper.


Thanks for the info. I believe the book I have is modern reloading. When I get some powder i'll lookup some load info. That program is pretty cool, i'll have to tinker with it abit because it doesn't have any data with it, it just tells me to connect to the server or something of that nature.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Rednek said:


> Are you going to be using a progressive or single-stage press?
> 
> The #1 rule in reloading is to keep your distractions to a minimum. Especially when reloading pistol cartridges. With the small powder charge that a typical pistol case uses it is very easy to over-charge the powder without the visible effects of powder falling out of the case as most any double charge would in a rifle case.
> 
> ...


I have a single stage press. I also have some trays. From what i've been reading you definately don't want to double charge them...lol. Thanks for the advice.


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## buckeyeguy (Aug 20, 2006)

magneto259 said:


> Also I've heard people clean the finished reloaded rounds to get the lube off of them. Is this safe for a loaded round?


I have looked into this before out of curiosity and have seen reports on both sides of the fence. One guy claims he tested some loaded .44 Mag rounds that he tumbled to test pressure changes and stated it did not. If it were me I would NOT tumble after loading. However, there are a lot of folks out there that do and wouldn't have it any other way. 

See:
http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/why-you-should-not-tumble-clean-loaded-ammo/

This is a link to my tumbler's owner's manual. See page 2:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/tumblers/pdf/LyC_TT.pdf

The guys have given you some real good info so far and I second their comments. The carbide dies are great. That way there is no lubing. 

When I reload rifle rounds, I bring them home and de-prime/size them and cut them if needed then throw them in the tumbler. It can be a little more dirty at first, but it saves a step. I just make sure I clean the dies when I'm done. 

If you haven't picked up any dies yet, I have both RCBS and Lee. In my opinion the Lee dies are good. The only thing I like more about the RCBS dies is that they have a screw tightened locking nut on them. The Lee dies don't. You could add them, but it's just more money. Also, the nice thing about Lee dies is that they come with the shellholder.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks for the info. It just didn't sound safe to tumble loaded ammunition.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

you do not tumble loaded ammo.

after sizing, i wash my brass in the dishwasher (no soap) then bake them dry. After that i tumble. This will vastly extend the life of your tumbler media.

I then trim/chamfer&debur/prime/charge/seat/shoot...

for pistol cartridges i use the carbide or titanium nitride dies, requiring little to no lube as mentioned above


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## buckeyeguy (Aug 20, 2006)

littleking said:


> after sizing, i wash my brass in the dishwasher (no soap) then bake them dry. After that i tumble. This will vastly extend the life of your tumbler media.


Never heard of anyone doing that before.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

A friend of mine has baked his brass.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

I've read elsewhere people washing and baking their brass. My girlfriend would kick my but if she caught me using the dishwasher and oven for reloading...lol. I'm about to order my dies here soon.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

I picked up a few reloading books from the local library to browse. Out of curiousity does it matter what bullet you load? I noticed in the book and online people will specifically note they bullet they use such as a FMJ or a solid lead one and even the manufacturer ( speer, hornady ). I know the weight will affect the case pressure and I will need to adjust the charge accordingly. The one book i've started browsing had a .380 load with a 115 grain bullet. From my understanding a heavier bullet will be longer and you will have to reduce the charge to keep case pressures in spec. Does the bullet material matter that much? Thanks in advance!


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## buckeyeguy (Aug 20, 2006)

I have both Speer (14th edition) and the Hornady (7th edition) handbooks and the Speer does not list that heavy of a bullet. It only goes up to 95gr. The Hornady shows up to a 125gr bullet. The loading is reduced as the weight of the bullet increases. This WOULD allow for proper Max Cartridge length and pressures.

As far as material, I would use the FMJs for plinking. They are generally a little cheaper than hollow points. I will admit I have never shot non-plated bullets in anything but a .22, but I would imagine it would fowl your rifling up faster.

I'm glad that you are doing so much research before you start. You will be very glad you are starting out on a single stage press. In my opinion its easier to keep focused on each and every load. 

Hey king, what is the exact process you go through on case prep (dishwasher/oven)?


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## Ken G (Apr 9, 2004)

Another good book is the newest version of "The ABC's of Reloading". 

There is a big difference between loading lead and jacketed bullets. Lead bullets create a tighter seal in the barrel resulting in higher pressures. Pressures can also be increased if you seat the bullets deeper than specified lowering the OAL.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

One of the books I picked up is the ABC's of Reloading 6th edition. Thanks for the info. From what i've read you have to lube lead bullets? They have a lube ring or something of that nature? Thanks!


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## Ken G (Apr 9, 2004)

If you cast your own lead bullets you have to lube them. If you are buying cast bullets they should come pre-lubed. Most lubed bullets have kind of a waxy grease in the grooves but there are a couple of manufacturers who use a dry coating of some sort.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

I've seen some of the solid lead bullets online with a band of some sort around the bottom of the bullet. I figured it was some kind of seal. Thanks again everybody for all the good tips.


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## ODNR3723 (Apr 12, 2007)

littleking, i am intrigued. i have never heard of anyone putting their brass in the dishwasher. i dont want to hijack the thread but i would like to hear more. for instance, what do you put them in to keep them from going all over the place? shoot me a pm if you don't mind.

as for the original post. i would not tumble loaded ammo. believe my tumbler specifically warns against. good luck though. i think you will find it to be an enjoyable hobby as well as a money saver.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

i put my brass in the sliverware basket... i wash ALL of my brass (on rinse), then bake it until dry. pretty simple process... i get some odd looks from the wife though


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## Ken G (Apr 9, 2004)

The odd looks are due the lead poisoning she is receiving.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

I threw about 100 rounds in the tumbler for about 4 hours and they came out pretty clean but there was still some burnt powder in there. Is that ok to reload on top of or should I swab them out? Thanks in advance!


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## Ken G (Apr 9, 2004)

No need to clean the inside of the cases as long as they aren't full of mud or range debris. I usually tumble for an hour or two unless I forget the tumblers are running. Excessive tumbling only wears out the brass and can even round over the case mouth.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Good to know i'll watch how long its running from now on. Is corn cob or walnut preferred? I got some walnut media with the tumbler. Thanks!


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## buckeyeguy (Aug 20, 2006)

I use cob. It works good for me. I reload 9mm, .223, .270 and .30-06. I haven't used walnut before. Probably won't change because cob works fine for me. 

I'm with KenG. I only tumble mine for an hour or two.


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## Ken G (Apr 9, 2004)

I use corn cob with a cap ful of nu-finish car polish mixed in when new. I have also started putting cut up used dryer sheets in to collect some of the dirt. The sheets are supposed to keep the media cleaner longer.

I've never tried the walnut but I've read it cleans better than cob but cob polishes better.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

magneto259 said:


> Good to know i'll watch how long its running from now on. Is corn cob or walnut preferred? I got some walnut media with the tumbler. Thanks!


Give Zilla Reptile bedding (available at pet stores) a try. Its 100% crushed walnut shells and is a lot cheaper. I thing I paid around $5.00 for a large 5lb bag and it works great.

I would not recommend tumbling cases without primers as the primer pocket can become plugged with media and cause misfires.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

BigV said:


> Give Zilla Reptile bedding (available at pet stores) a try. Its 100% crushed walnut shells and is a lot cheaper. I thing I paid around $5.00 for a large 5lb bag and it works great.
> 
> I would not recommend tumbling cases without primers as the primer pocket can become plugged with media and cause misfires.


unplug the primer pocket then.... tumbling WITH primers in is just plain scary... (unless they've already been fired of course)


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

I tumbled a few with and without primers and some of the media did stick in the hole. I'll try to blow them out before loading. Thanks all for the tips!


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

littleking said:


> unplug the primer pocket then.... tumbling WITH primers in is just plain scary... (unless they've already been fired of course)


What would be the purpose of tumbling brass after the cases were sized and re-primed?

Regardless of that fact, it would be virtually impossible to ignite a primer while tumbling. 

Have you ever had a primer ignite while re-priming cases?
A little startling yes, but scaryNo 


My simple process is tumbling my brass, de-priming and resizing in one step, re-prime cases with new primers and then reload.

If you are not using carbide dies for pistol cases you should get rid of them and buy new carbide dies.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

I always wash/bake my brass after sizing, so i then tumble to remove the blackening caused but the well water/baking process


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## pj4wd (Dec 9, 2009)

If it's Pistol brass ,after shooting I toss it in the tumbler for a couple of hours and load it. Rifle brass I give a little TLC. I use a lee depriming die, it does'nt resize, it just knocks the primer out.It's not cal. specific. Next I tumble, then lube, the one shot lube that sprays on is easy and works. I put a bunch of clean cases in a frisbee and roll them around as I spray them. Next resize,any residue that could be stuck in the primer fire hole is punched out by the depriming pin.Then trim to length. Next debur, chamfer,clean primer pocket, and lube case neck. I have the RCBS trim mate so that makes the job a little simpler. The cases have been lubed so I start loading. If they stick a little I give the batch another spray of one shot. One important thing is buy the headspace gauge for the cal. your reloading to set your resizing die correct. The more you read about it the more you'll learn. Buy a couple reloading manuals and have at it. enjoy and be careful..


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## Rednek (Nov 6, 2006)

pj4wd said:


> If it's Pistol brass ,after shooting I toss it in the tumbler for a couple of hours and load it. Rifle brass I give a little TLC. I use a lee depriming die, it does'nt resize, it just knocks the primer out.It's not cal. specific. Next I tumble, then lube, the one shot lube that sprays on is easy and works. I put a bunch of clean cases in a frisbee and roll them around as I spray them. Next resize,any residue that could be stuck in the primer fire hole is punched out by the depriming pin.Then trim to length. Next debur, chamfer,clean primer pocket, and *lube case neck*. I have the RCBS trim mate so that makes the job a little simpler. The cases have been lubed so I start loading. If they stick a little I give the batch another spray of one shot. One important thing is buy the headspace gauge for the cal. your reloading to set your resizing die correct. The more you read about it the more you'll learn. Buy a couple reloading manuals and have at it. enjoy and be careful..


I'm trying to figure out why you are lubing the case neck at the end of your case prep and just prior to reloading. Lubing the case neck is not necessary for seating the bullet and is just going to cause the powder the build up inside the case neck. Lubing the case neck is done prior to resizing to allow the neck expander to slide easier through the neck when resizing.

When using spray lube be careful not to use to much because it can run down the neck and build up on the shoulder and can cause dents in the shoulder when resizing that can lead to premature case failure.


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## pj4wd (Dec 9, 2009)

Good point.Like I said, I deprime,clean and lube the cases prior to resizing and case prep. When spraying the cases a little Hornady one shot spray lube gets in the neck , dries in about 1 minute, does'nt creep and won't harm powder. Its worked fine . On my reloader (Dillon 550) the first station resizes and deprimes again plus puts the new primers in. So the neck expander is cycling again so the last thing I do when preping cases is put a little dry powder in there ta help things run smooth on the dillon.


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## Rednek (Nov 6, 2006)

Ahh. I see. Dillon presses are nice. Did yours come with one of the Dillon girls?


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## pj4wd (Dec 9, 2009)

Nope it didn't ,,They sure have some nice ones!!


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks for the info fellas. I got some dies on the way as we speak and picked up some powder, bullets, and primers from the local hunting store. I'll probably load up a dozen or so and try them out to make sure i didn't make any duds.


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## buckeyeguy (Aug 20, 2006)

Just something that helps me when I reload is keeping data on how well each load shot. I keep a log that I write what the load was, the components, ambient temp, gun used, distance and how many shots after cleaning for each group. For each group, I measure the group size and write it down. 

It has helped me keep track of my better shooting loads. Also, if you step away from reloading for a couple months, it will help you remember where you left off and a refresher of what has worked in the past.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks that is a good tip. Help me fine tune my loads.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

I have another question fellas. I didn't get the separate taper die with the dies i'm getting should I purchase the additional taper die? The ones on lee's website show 2 pistol one's the lee carbide factory crimp die and the lee taper crimp die. I'm reloading for my .380 auto and from what i've read a taper crimp is what i'll need for a automatic pistol. Does anybody know if both crimp dies taper? Or just the one listed as taper die? The one listed as a taper die is steel so i'll have to lube them. The other is carbide so no lubing. Thanks in advance!


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## pj4wd (Dec 9, 2009)

The Lee carbide factory crimp die is easier to use with less chance of damaging any cases. It's worth the extra couple bucks.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Sweet thanks for the input. I'll order one when I order the case length gauge. Thanks!


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## pj4wd (Dec 9, 2009)

I personaly don't use case length gauges for pistol ammo, say 380,9mm,45acp. Really any straight walled case. I use them for cases that bottle neck, say 223,243,or 30/06. I just use a caliper (you'll need one of those)To measure the pistol cases,They usually fail before they need trimed.


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## magneto259 (Aug 2, 2009)

Well i got my dies yesterday and loaded up a handful and ran them through my gun and all was well. No misfires, misfeeds or anything. I did notice my OAL's varied a bit maybe .010 difference at the most between loads. I loaded minimum loads so i wouldn't have a over pressure situation. Thanks for all the help fellas!


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