# Tournament release boat



## 10bender24 (Nov 8, 2005)

Directors

If you run a fairly large circuit and have 100 + bass at the weigh in that get dumped at the ramp during the weigh in there is an alternative.The OHIO BASS FEDERATION has release boats for hire,they will get the fish back to the lake and away from the banks so they do not get harvested and tossed into hot grease.Our sport will diminish without the sportfish.This is a great concept and ODNR praises them.Feel free to call for more info.Alan DeVaughn 1-740-499-4122


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

What scientific evidence is there that supports benefits of reducing overall mortality of released fish from a boat?

Release sites are important indeed, and should include much thought to ALL the variables that support a successful long term survival.

BUT you can do more harm than good if you worry about "frying pan" theories.

Release boats can be beneficial, they can also result in higher mortality if not used appropriately, just as any ill thought release site could- they are not a cure all.

While on this topic... ....

Overall mortality rates can be more dramatically impacted by the ANGLERS opposed to overall benefits to using a release boat.

2-key components...REDUCE STRESS...INCREASE OXYGEN on held fish.

*Clean your livewells out after each use- Run areators all day- use ice to cool your creel ALL DAY- use metabolic rate reducing products such as PLEASE RELEASE ME, not something the HYPES the fish by Rejuvenating it!- recirc when around heated/polluted water- use a cull system- put A LOT of water in your bag prior to scales- use the provided system in place from your organization at line tanks!!! *

Get me past these issues and I can keep fish alive any event regardless of release site.

Nip


----------



## 10bender24 (Nov 8, 2005)

Nip,

Your points on anglers responsibility should be taken by all,and most do.I have fished several organizations/circuits and opens and the directors and anglers do a great job to have 0 % mortality.The OHIO BASS FEDERATION release boats have 3 huge tanks with huge fill pumps and several recirc pumps,if the fish make it to the boat in good shape there home free.It's not the bass anglers that the fish should fear,we catch and release.I had the opprotunity to take the release boat up to Misquito lake last weekend for the OBF region 3 tourny and there were a ton of fish caught,I do not have final results but i bet 45 boats brought in close to 500 fish for 2 days,I envy you folks up there.And several anglers,some probaly fish other circuits in that area expressed gratitute for the release boat.500 bass along the rocks at the state park,that's not a good thing.I assure anyone if the bass makes it to the boat in good shape they will be released alive in good shape out on the lake away from the general public.It's an alternative if you don't want to use it fine,don't. But it is available and we do use it at opens and other tournaments that wish to use it.


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

This similar discussion has arisen in the past. To save my exhausted breath...
http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=44578&page=6

First- Bender I appreciate your offerings as both an angler and a director, and please accept my apologies if my previous post came across otherwise.

One point of my last post was to discredit misinformation (and Mosquito was specific in the back of my mind). 

First thought logic (the enemy) allows one to speculate your comments to be true, especially ones who may not tournament fish. 

It further perpetuates the misinformation into a frenzy of inaccuracies that not only discredits the efforts you spoke of by our bass angling community as a whole, but further rationalizes "myths".

Reality is, even the BEST efforts to reduce mortality of released fish are rarely 100&#37; survival. The 24-72hr transition post release is where high mortality is best documented in research and where stress and oxygen plays a critical role. 

There is arguably some concerns arriving with that of a release boat. Makes us feel a a lot better, but it may not be overall impacting the numbers of success once thought...especially in a body of water like Mosquito. 

The middle of the lake is not an ideal place to release fish- 02 levels at the deeper depths can be poor, cover is all but absent, adaption to the depths are forced to an already stressed fish with little chance to gradually adapt.

The bottom line- after extensive discussion with credentialed folks in the field researching similar, I beleive the Marina Bay to overwhelmingly be best suited for live release.

1. It's off limits to their main predators- bass anglers
2. It provides some of the most significant gradual depth changes practical to live release in the entire lake.
3. The amount of stress and lack of oxygen reguired to get the fish to the release boat outweighs in overall harm (post event mortality impacts 24-72 hrs)
4. The docks are ideal for stressed fish to fully recuperate. Research suggests a majority of fish won't feed during this period of recuperation.
5. Release boats don't make fish survive- the care during their period of being held for up to 8 hours, and the time they spend intially after weight (in properly oxygenated and treated holding tanks) combined with a PROPER RELEASE area have much more significant impact.

I only wish ALL anglers would indeed care for bass the way we claim, it just aint the truth though...and where our largest failures remain.

Get guys focused on themselves and their efforts of two simple areas - REDUCING STRESS and INCREASING OXYGEN, as opposed to blaming the poor bank anglers with some corn on their hooks or a tournament director with a well thought out plan.

Nip


----------



## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Nip and Bender,
I believe there is scientific data on the subject, but so far the arguments here seems to be avoiding it. Why not show the references and point out the figures on the dependence of mortality on handling?


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Click the first link I provided King, there is some good stuff in that thread.

As well, do a search online- endless info for you.

These are exactly the folks I speak of Bender...crappie guys.... 

Nip


----------



## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Yep, the crappie guys have read the surprisingly hidden scientific studies. Business is business I guess.


----------



## rangervs81 (Feb 9, 2007)

BASS and FLW uses release boats, I am sure they did some studies and found that this is the best way to save our bass. I think the dead fish penelty at tournaments should be doubled. I do everything possible to keep my fish alive, but yes I still had some that didn't make it.


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

King theres nothing hidden....

It has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with science and education that works towards reducing overall mortality- both intial and delayed. 

Most importantly is educating folks such as yourself who are filled with "the enemy" towards bassers.

Conservation and stewardship are a HUGE part of most all bass organizations-
groups such as the OHIO BASS FEDERATION ( who has the release boat) spend countless hours and resources to benefit habitat, clean lakes, and care for fish.

Again- tournament release boats are only as good as the release site and the amount of stress placed on the fish to get to the boat.

I'm not bashing the use of release boats- but they are only a piece of a puzzle filled with variables that can positively impact overall mortality.

The biggest factors that will ultimately effect overall mortality rates, both initial and delayed ARE.... REDUCING STRESS and INCREASING OXYGEN.

BTW- Ladue events TEAMS are DISQUALIFIED for any dead fish!!!
NOAA events we impose a NONTRADITIONAL ONE pound penalty...IT FORCES ANGLERS to REDUCE STRESS and INCREASE o2. Great point Rangervs and I totally agree!!!

nip


----------



## Fish4Fun (Apr 6, 2004)

Some great points being brought up on both sides of this discussion.

Nip makes some very good points on educating the fisherman. That fish may sit in a livewell for close to 8 hours if it had a rough day and wasn't cared for properly for those 8 hours its going to drastically affect that fish no matter what you do when its released.

And you will see tournament guys that are really good about that and take great care of there fish during the tournament and when released and you will see ones that don't. 

Education of all aspects of the catch and release program from start to finish on the tournament day will play a key factor in the long term survival of the fish. So that it doesn't swim off after release and die in the next 24hrs.

If the fish is stressed out and released in the middle of the lake with no where to go and recoup i would have to say its chances of survival are deminished.

just some of my thoughts.


----------



## HOTTFINGER (Apr 14, 2004)

It's obvious to me that even though opinions vary on how to best take care of the fish, that we are all genuinely interested in doing just that. I think the guy who catches the fish and keeps it in his live well for a number of hours has the most immediate and deciding effect on whether the fish lives an extended period after release. I've been dissatisfied with the live well system on my Stratos for a number of years but really didn't know what the cure was. Last year a member of my club told me about a product called an Oxygenator. He had used it exclusively for several years in his boat since it had only a fill/dump capability prior to getting the Oxygenator. He was quite happy with the results, so I purchased one at Bass Pro for $75. I hooked it up and have noticed a marked improvement in the liveliness of my fish at weigh in. I still run my recirc on timer to remove toxins generated from the fish's waste etc. There's no need to add "release" formulas, in fact those with salt can cause damage to the Oxygenator. I think dipping the fish in a "release" formula just prior to weigh in or putting them back in the lake is a big help though in restoring the slime coat etc. Now then---I'm surely no expert on this subject--but I did want to throw in my two cents just in case what I've run across may help someone. It totally makes me feel lousy to open my well and find fish dead or near death on a hot day. As much as I think Iaconelli showed his butt big time in last year's classic--I must say I empathize with his frustration at finding his well off and several dead fish inside.


----------



## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Nip, we do know that some just can't see through the dollar signs. Comforting to know that our sponsors here can and do. 



Nipididdee said:


> King theres nothing hidden....
> 
> It has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with science and education that works towards reducing overall mortality- both intial and delayed.
> 
> ...


Nip - 
Before you put your notions of what other members think in print, you need to be aware that the readers do consider what you are writing and why you are writing it. And your notes are an expected method for a guy with your experience to make a claim that someone thinks a certain way or has said something in the past to support your claim.

So far, you chosen against providing any "beef" to you and your buddies' claims. It is what you have termed (when convenient to your purpose) as 'hearsay'. Recognizing your lack of appreciation for scientific observation will be your first step toward presenting some useful information that includes the pros and the cons of issues.

And I disagree (and assume most everyone does) with most of your arguments - for instance your claim - 'I am not bashing release boats' - correction; you did bash the release boats..... another feature of posting - what you wrote yesterday is still in print.


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

King- I am missing your points.

The linked thread provided previously contains a myrid of opportunities for you for the information you requested, again, and there is more than one page (actually several) from this discussion of the past:
http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=44578&page=4

Pre 2007 seaon I have solicited numerous DOW officials from the Cetral Office to District 3 to conduct studies specific to our events, mortality and delayed mortality. I'm still waiting for the bite. I am confident the numbers would be encouraging for our efforts. 

That would be the only true test for our reservoirs and our efforts and to my knowledge has not happened in this region.

Otherwise I can only go upon the advice and information of professionals in the field studying similar (tournament mortality, movements and feeding patterns of displaced bass, and proven weigh techniques) and my direct contact with a well respected Biologist in field, Lane Gergley. She has done much work specific to tournament released black bass with very large venues in Texas and FLW.

I indeed would hope my arguments are strong to persuade my intended efforts, I'd be silly otherwise!

I took a vow to myself King to become an "earth warrior" if I was allowed to expand within this universe...I am only keeping that promise. At times it must be done loudly to perservere.

Go fry up some crappie 

nip


----------



## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Nip,
After reading those 62 posts I did not see one single reference cited as you had claimed. Perhaps you have a bunch that you can hot-link here. And that is my point, as was pointed out a couple of times in that other thread. 

I have reviewed a number of published the research studies in the past and so I am somewhat familiar with it. And it would be good to discuss the approaches and conclusions of the scientific studies instead of argument without real evidence. I am sure you can appreciate the need for that. 

Great idea on the crappie fry.


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

King, the only thing left for you is prayer....


----------



## 1badmthrfisher (Apr 4, 2005)

Not to intrude into your conversations, but Id like to add my 2 cents. i have fished a decent amount of tournaments of the last 3 years and I have personally witnessed at nearly all of them release boats taking fish back out to the lake. Now these were not hired boats, but rather fisherman or tournament directors that actually made trips out onto the lake to return the fish at various parts of the lake. I think this is better than releasing them all at the ramp and more economical than paying someone to do so.... so there are efforts being made but there asre monetary limitations that are always going to be a factor.


----------



## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

It sounds right to me badmthr. Just like post #1 indicated. Here's a 'study' from the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation that supports it. As near as I can tell, their Wildlife Department's "Fisheries Research Lab" performed and published the work.

http://www.texs.com/bass_mortality_study/


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

badmother- no intrusion, thanks for some fresh stuff!!!! Thats what this is all about!!!

It is very practical what you spoke of. Especially if they are smaller venues. 

You run into the logistical aspects of a release with 100 teams (imagine this)- in turn, most of those variables result in additional stress to the fish. Not to mention most of our State Park Officer's would freak with the congestion we already attempt to minimize with staggard flight times (which also helps in reducing mortality).

Our fish are handled ONE time in our process. From the treated line tanks in which anglers are forced water exchange from our limited amount of mesh bags, to bump board and into a basket. They STAY in this basket with no further handling to a treated and oxygenated tank for holding. Then directly back into the water of an approved release site nearby the weigh.

The amount of time spent out of water or in a bag subject to initiate hypoxia is minimal.

These specific efforts are the areas in which most delayed mortality rates have arisen - opposed to a release site.

Utilitarian in principle- the overall positive impacts are greatest at these periods of handling, opposed to overall benefits of a release dispersion procedure (pending no HUGE pollutive/contaminant of release site!)

nip


----------



## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

And that would be opposite to what the study indicated is needed in order for tournament C&R to maintain the fishery.


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Go beyond the early studies of Gilliland and you will find more answers FAR BEYOND the link you provided. You should email Gilliland and see if he approves of our handling and release procedures though...that'd be interesting. We are doing much of what Gilliland recommends BTW.

You started your seach- don't stop with your first googled page...if you need help interpreting the data drop me an email I can put you in touch with some of the frontrunners in the field to assist with your conclusions.

...or you could stop over and we could just wrestle 

I think that might be what you are really looking for with me...little to do with your knowledge of the topic and everything to do with disliking me.

...your not the first King...Ima bigboy and can handle it.

nip


----------



## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Gee Nip, It sounds like you did the search already. So let's see those references to the scientific research.  At this point we can be sure that you are not aware of any, have read none, or there are none. For sure , everyone can be skeptical of the opinion of YOUR buddies. Given the chance over ten times, you still hide from the research that you stand by. 
And based on your posts so far, you have ruined the credibility of your buddies, so we can all ignore the assumption. Will wait for the references and ignore your personal experience unsubstantiated claims. 

I assert that you have provided the common defense of the ignorant - discredit the skeptical without evidence. Chaw, chaw, spit..... appears to be your preference, is that your self-assessment? 

You often have argument that is diversion from the challenge. Why not step up to the plate and take a swing tuff guy?


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

King... if you were a bass I woulda done caught you several times by now. 

It's all there, and still is, but you fail to recognize it for whatever reasons. Indeed I am a layman in the biological area of fisheries management. That is why I have relied on countless hours of online research and communicating with credentialed folks specific to many studies the past 2+ years. ( Although I did score a 28 in sciences on my ACT 20 years ago, does that count, it's a joke King)

Let's take your link you provided then ( as this is gospel for you, and heck you provided it)- same website with generalized info specific to reducing mortality.

http://www.texs.com/bass_mortality_study/tournament_directors_guidlines.htm

We do these things in whole ( and this is just a small part!), moreso than any amatuer level events in the region...the release issue is in question only and I have given you viable information from named respected biologists who assisted in the decision we made specific to Mosquito Lake. 

The potential for more harm than good specific to Mosquito Lake and the already excellent release area contained within the State Park Bay opposed to over stressing fish and further depleting o2 (that does more harm than any group of bank anglers can) in order to get them into a release boat.

It's pretty simple and requires little citations of studies conducted within subsections of the topic. Most all mortality/delayed mortality information agrees- REDUCE STRESS...INCREASE OXYGEN = less mortality both intial and delayed.

You wouldn't read them anyhow, rather take a sentence and not the whole picture, as for whatever reasons your efforts are geared to thwart the wonderful accomplishments of the ENTIRE bass angling community- from scientists to anglers to directors who continue to educate and implement efforts for the prosperity of the sport.

Thanks for not locking it yet OGF


----------



## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

I don't know why King what a link to scientific research. As with any stat, you can always find things that support your argument and discredit the other. Your need for "scientific research" is rediculous unless it is site specific. I was a fisheries science major and I'm sure that I could come up with a study and post it online that would support either a release boat or a release site. It is easy to tweak data. So to sum it up, this whole argument is silly, as in specific instances both of you are right... and wrong.


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

I'm never wrong Basspro!   

I agree with Basspro totally...minus the part where I am partly wrong.:C 

If crappie fishin' were only so easy...

King I was thinkin' about starting some crappie events on Cowan, any suggestions for me?

Nip


----------



## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

[QUOTEAgain- tournament release boats are only as good as the release site and the amount of stress placed on the fish to get to the boat.

The biggest factors that will ultimately effect overall mortality rates, both initial and delayed ARE.... REDUCING STRESS and INCREASING OXYGEN.nip[/QUOTE]

I fished in the said event at mosquito and there was greater damage to the fish while waiting in line. It is a proven fact that a limit of bass has approx 5 min worth of 02 in a bag that has substantial water in it. There were long lines, most had to wait for 15 min or longer to weigh, no aeration tanks to replenish 02 in bags, high temps, and I'm sure most, if not all these bass were stressed out way before they hit the release boat. Most bass don't recover from that no matter where you release them. Alot of guys had very little water in there bags and that was bad on their part. More education.


----------



## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Thanks for posting a useful link, Nip. See?... you really do have the capacity in spite of your resistance to do so. I am sure that you are doing what you can in your tournaments. Here is the follow-on link with their recommendations that includes the details. 
http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/FISHCARE.htm

Bassnpro1 - The published scientific studies are all we have to go by. And I agree that the devil is in the details of how they did it, where they did, time of year, etc. That's the point of the _science_ of it...the organizations and authors have been formally trained to include the relevant information. The benefit of numerous studies from various sites creates a basis for comparisons and allows for extrapolation to general conclusions that are independent of specific sites. Another feature to watch out for are those publishing sources that have a vested interest in the profit of this fine sport of tournament bass fishing. Those sources may tend to protect near-term profitability instead of long-term fisheries protection. You are exactly correct - any single study is not pure truth and all have errors and false conclusions. And those can be discussed objectively - very useful in educating all of us because lots of brains on the task translates into lots of information.

Nip says - 'It's all there, and still is, but you fail to recognize it for whatever reasons.' Not sure what topic you are on here, this issue is the heavy resistance to present/hot-link some of the studies for review by the OFG tournament bass fishing membership. 

On a Crappie tournament at Cowan? I'd guess it could handle a 25-40 boat tourney on a low traffic day. SS marina no longer holds tournaments as of this year so there might be an opportunity. I'd be glad to teach you how to catch Crappie...you proved you can still learn.


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

King...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=black+bass+delayed+mortality&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...f+tournament+released+bass&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=auburn+university+bass+movements&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=bass+tournament+mortality+study&btnG=Search

...this is what I mean by it's all there ...similar to what bassnpro said...I'm not a dumb bass enough to bite on your specifics as I have a life that must carry onward admist your immature personal objection with me. I can't run interference with your ignorance that could continue to interrupt our efforts to properly educate EVERYONE (especially those on a public forum).

This tidbit of googled info I pulled up in 3 seconds would take one a couple of winters (which I did & much more) and NUMEROUS sessions of correspondence with the authors of ongoing studies to come close to grasping the TWO MAIN POINTS that most all in the field agree...and do the MOST OVERALL GOOD (the most overall survival long term)

*REDUCE STRESS (use a cull system,gentle handling w/wet hands,appropriate water treatments with specialized products designed to: assist in healing, tranquilize-slow metabolisim,replace slime coat and prevent transmission of disease: including VHS. Clean livewells regularly, fill/plug livewells on long transports) 
INCREASE OXYGEN ( ice downs when over 75 degrees by 10 degrees- hold 02 better, run areators CONTINUIOUSLY, avoid contaminated water entering well, use special oxygenated technologies to increase PPM, fill your bag with much water for line,use your events established protocol for line holding)*

and...this is just the angler side of things.

What we do as an organization and what I have done to make sure I am properly educated to carry those things out GOES WAY BEYOND having to play interference with a crappie fisherman on a public forum who is not privy to the in's and out's of bass anglers efforts from word go. 

Specific to Mosquito, maps, pics of layout and logistical info, along with our proceedures in place- were presented to two seperate fisheries biologist who studied movements of tournament released black bass and are DEEP in the lifelong ongoing research of ALL mortality issues. Some of their responses has been quoted in the prior thread you allegedly read.

King - you have helped us all I hope, understand the power of ignorance on this topic and further shed the light on our need as a group to be prepared for the enemy that lives within folks just as yourself. http://www.dobass.com/THEENEMY.html

I'm goona let you go back and swim now, as I am done with you and hope never to catch you again! Your still invited to the crappie tourney...I really wanna put a hurt on you there too  

Nip
www.dobass.com


----------



## Phil Carver (Apr 5, 2004)

Cant we all just get along ? There have been some valid points made in this thread no doubt . The whole reson of starting this post was to inform Ohio Tournament directors that they now had an alternative option . Not to start a big contaversy over how things should be done to properly handle fish . Lets just all keeep doing our part to do our best to get the fish back to the water as safe as possible .  

Thanks for the invitation 10Bender .


----------



## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Not really Phil...and please dont take your shirt off 

There are nearly a 1000 views on this. I saw what the original intent was in the intiating post,especially just having come off that lake. It comes with the territory to Mosquito when you put a 10k spin on it.

It's important for me as a promoter, as a director and an angler to fight the cause for the fish.

Misinformation is the largest problem in keeping those dudes alive. I hope my continuation allows some to seek on their own and make their own decision, at minimum learning much more than they did on the topic.

"doing our part" is obviously a big part of the problem if efforts are struggled through to use a release boat, but there isn't a single line tank. EDUCATION...not just feeling "good" about what looks good or sounds good, but implementing what is proven to work.

I'm getting along fine with King, especially after I catch more crappie in our tournament.

nip


----------



## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> I'm getting along fine with King, especially after I catch more crappie in our tournament.


since you two turned the original topic to another of your two man shows,you've gotten and "nearly 1000 views",we'll let this one die,and you guys can debate to your heart's content while you're catching all those dink crappies


----------

