# cell phone use during tournament hours



## HVAC-MAN

I just wanted to get some opions on cell phone use during tournament hours. Everyone has seen guys on their phones from time to time, how do you enforce it? The last 2 tournaments that I fished this year we were allowed to use cell phones or whatever you wanted for communication. Steve Carlson held the Huron tournament and John Stallings held the Indian lake Vibe bite, Both of these guys had a great point, they both said that there is no way to enforce cell phone use so why not just let everyone use them?! Yea you can call or text your buddies or teammates and let them know where the fish are but they still have to catch the fish !! What do you think??

good fishing, sammy cappelli


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## JF1

I for one don't like the use of cellphones. True its next to impossible to enforce, but thats where sportsmanship needs to come in. If I know I am not allowed to use a cellphone because its in the rules, then I know I for one will not use it. I'm sure others are the same.


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## jcfishing

I guess it depends on the type of tournament and the goal of the event. If it's a charity or "get together" type of event, then allowing anglers to communicate and share information during tournament hours may be okay.

On the other hand, if the event is meant to be a true competitive tournament, any form of communication regarding fishing information during tournamnet hours should not be tolerated. No cell phones, radios, hand signals, etc. Unless it's an emergency or you need to contact the tournament director, there's no reason to be on a cell phone or radio during a tournament.
The same for personal calls. If it's an emergency or critical, okay, but you can wait to talk to your friends/family until after the tournament.

I must be getting old because I can remember when there was honor amongst fishermen and outdoorsmen, but those times a slipping away. We've all heard of or experienced first hand another "fishermen" ripping off another anglers gear or a "hunter" taking someones camera from the woods etc.
Now we have anglers not only verbally violating the rules of most tournaments, they also texting, e-mailing etc. 

It's not just our sport... it's all the others as well. "Cheating" or "Bending The Rules" to gain a competitive advantage has almost become accepted behavior! Sad, very, very sad....

I agree that it is difficult to prevent cell phone use and other forms of communication during a tournament, but it really shouldn't be that hard. Just don't use it during the tournament. If you see someone using one during tournament hours, report it. It will be obvious if it was an emergency or allowable call, or communication that violates the rules. Let's bring the honor back to our sport.


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## mikeshookset

i find that using cell phones durring a tournament to pass information back and forth unsportsman like and would dq a team doing it in a heart beat under the sportsmanship rule! cell phones should only be used in a emergancy situation on the lake. if there looked like it might be for anouther reason i would ask for the cell phone records from both parties involved and go from there. if one or both parties declined to produce the records i would then do what i needed to do and revert back to the rule that states the tournament directers dicision is finale and do what i felt i needed to do. sportsman ship is number 1 in our sport and should not beforgotin to keep our sport alive and healthy. teams that like to play in gray areas should be ready and willing to pay the price for those actions as it only hurts clubs and circuits that they do it in. when teams do that whatch the numbers from year to year drop as guys that fish by the rules starts droping out. guys that fish like that hurt the sport and thier pay checks as the numbers drop and dont really get much respect for the wins they do get all they get is contraversy for thier actions.


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## timmyv

I'm just not sure why someone would share their spots? That doesn't make sense to me. I would say if no cell phones are aloud then if you are using one during a tourney they you should be DQed unless it's for an emergency.


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## JF1

mikeshookset said:


> i find that using cell phones durring a tournament to pass information back and forth unsportsman like and would dq a team doing it in a heart beat under the sportsmanship rule! cell phones should only be used in a emergancy situation on the lake. if there looked like it might be for anouther reason i would ask for the cell phone records from both parties involved and go from there. if one or both parties declined to produce the records i would then do what i needed to do and revert back to the rule that states the tournament directers dicision is finale and do what i felt i needed to do. sportsman ship is number 1 in our sport and should not beforgotin to keep our sport alive and healthy. teams that like to play in gray areas should be ready and willing to pay the price for those actions as it only hurts clubs and circuits that they do it in. when teams do that whatch the numbers from year to year drop as guys that fish by the rules starts droping out. guys that fish like that hurt the sport and thier pay checks as the numbers drop and dont really get much respect for the wins they do get all they get is contraversy for thier actions.


Very very well stated!!


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## cedar1

I would never use my phone to gather on the water info. HOWEVER I am a business owner and I receive phone calls in every tournament I fish. Ive always felt kind of funny answering it when fishing around other guys in the tourny. I have to answer it and will continue to do so. If it becomes a problem I will have to quit tournament fishing.


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## K gonefishin

You guys bass or walleye anglers????...HVAC Man and Jcfishing are talking about walleye fishing...which is obviously way way different than bass fishing.


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## OHBMQUINN

Maby if the tournament directors running tournaments bass or walleye would enforce the rules this would not be an exceptable pratice not only the cell -phone rule wake zones ect a few people get a big DQ and all of the pratices will sease and not be excepted any longer if you are a bisness owner and you have to use the phone you might want to check the tournament rules and see if this phone use is exceptable in that tournament if not you might want to re consider fishing rules are rules and ment to be kept for the good and safty of others


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## mikeshookset

cedar1 said:


> I would never use my phone to gather on the water info. HOWEVER I am a business owner and I receive phone calls in every tournament I fish. Ive always felt kind of funny answering it when fishing around other guys in the tourny. I have to answer it and will continue to do so. If it becomes a problem I will have to quit tournament fishing.


jobs are one thing and should be aloud but passing fishing information on the water is anouther but if in dought i would still want records to prove thats what was being done if a situation called for it.


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## mikeshookset

OHBMQUINN said:


> Maby if the tournament directors running tournaments bass or walleye would enforce the rules this would not be an exceptable pratice not only the cell -phone rule wake zones ect a few people get a big DQ and all of the pratices will sease and not be excepted any longer if you are a bisness owner and you have to use the phone you might want to check the tournament rules and see if this phone use is exceptable in that tournament if not you might want to re consider fishing rules are rules and ment to be kept for the good and safty of others


your exactly right rules are rules and they should be followed.. dqs absolutely show people that you mean what you say and when you pass out the dq then the stupid stuff slows way down to almost nothing but guys will still play if they think they can get away with it thats why i say if a team plays in the gray area be prepaired to pay the price.


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## Nipididdee

CAVEAT: This opinion (what HVAC wanted) is that of a bass tournament director who indeed incorporates no use of cell/comm.devices in all events, it does not represent all bass events or anglers.

We used this rule from word go 10 years ago when (beleive it or not) the cell tech wasn't but with about 1/4 or less of the field.

It promotes individual/team angling (opposed to groups/clicks dividing the field) and dismantles easy lines of communication for those who might otherwise break the rules...and as much as I hate to say the word... even cheat.

We watched a small positive angling group move into the downright ugly catagory quickly when some teams were using "walkie talkies" to "disadvantage" others many years ago prior to us promoting events. They were overt about it- it didn't break any rules (there wasn't any) and it led to going "over the top" for most of the field that was there fishing for individual sport. Did it help them...I dunno...it didn't help the perceptions though.

Hindsight, I am glad we have prohibited this and will continue to do so at future events for the reasons indicated above.

It's a rule to me that is about MORE policeable than most. Just ask Tiger...there's a record of it's use, easily obtained and pretty black and white. BTW- we only accept written protests of the rules. Don't "tell" us about it, put it in writing and we'll meet our obligations for each specific filing.

As technology has evolved I have even started not making ANY exceptions as of 2009, although I could (and have) preapprove according to our rules.

I look at it like this- it's 8 hours without technology, what did folks do just a short time ago? 

Wait...then return the call. 

If you have such urgent matters that require your attention then make your decision according to the rules prior to the event or risk a dummy DQ.

Everyone wants (often demands of us!) a level field- we believe not permitting cell phone use enhances a level field and further "removes enemies" for the prosperity of the sport.

Nip
www.dobass.com


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## Doctor

Catfish tournaments we are allowed to use our Cellphones, Cabela's is the only exception, not allowed to in that series.

I guess we look at it in a different light, we want to catch fish and there are times when I have struggled and another team is hammering them and we use that information to get on fish, it's not about the money for us it's about helping each other out and bringing fish to the scales, it can backfire on you and you end up coming in second place to a team that beats you after you have given them information, but in the meantime you have gained a friend and valuable information, we try to share as much as we can, as I get older I see the young guns working there way up the ranks and helping them out shortens there learning curve and allows them to compete with those of us that have been fishing tournaments for years. 

Doc


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## Salmonid

I wqas waiting to see where this went but Ill agree with Doc on this one, our catfish club allows calls and quite frankly, its more commonplace since we set lines and wait, then wait soe more and then get bored and then talk to the wife, other contestants etc waiting for a rod to go down. I have several times put folks on spots when I found out they were not finding any just so they could get on a few fish for the weigh in, I certainly woulndnt put anyne on my best spots but I feel the helping hand is quite rewarding and our club event place teaching and having fun over the money aspect. 

Long story short is just bacause I tell someone to find fish on rock piles over the phone will certainly not help them unless they know the water as good if not better then me. As always, with the cats, just because I find them on Barge A doesnt mean they will be on any of the next 100 barges so catching them becomes even more challenging whn you have a little bt of information. 

Last point with our events on the Ohio river, we always encourage folks to have a cell phhone on them as it can get dangerous in a big hurry between heavy drift, idiot pleasurecraft, fog, night tourneys, barges and who knows what else. We spread out over about 20 miles of river and its good to know who may be in your area if the engine fails or what not. 
I definately see it being an issue with the bass guys since those fish are easy to pattern so if someone had a hot plug on a north facing woody bank, that info could be quite dangerous spreading that type of info around ,since simmilar spots would likely hold fish vs that info on the big river may not help at all Just my .02

Salmonid


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## H2O Mellon

Nipididdee said:


> I look at it like this- it's 8 hours without technology, what did folks do just a short time ago?


Hmm... good question. I'd venture to say that they we're driving $45K 24 foot Ranger boats, $40K tow vehicles, using $300 rods, $250 reels, or 36 volt 100+# trolling motors, 250 HP 4 stroke motors, $2000 fish finders, etc....

My point is that I hear this complaint from Bass guys all the time, however with all the stuff listed above why is a cell phone such a big deal? Just because one guys boats a 5# largemout slow rolling a spinner bait doesn't mean that the same techinque is going to work for someone else.


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## Nipididdee

I smell bass envy ... 

...it's not so much giving into patterns, turning on "hot spots", etc

it's when there is no rule, it opens the door to two or more boats (teams) eventually working in conjunction- whether it be for the perceived advantage, just the perception of it... or possibly to work in co-hoots to cheat...none of it is beneficial to the event.

Personally I tune myself into the nature of what's happening around me while fishing, that's one of the main reasons of my passion I guess- the distraction of a call is unwelcomed, tournament or not- I'm usually shut down on the water and that's in my 14'er with batteries only  .


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## HVAC-MAN

I'm not knocking the decision Steve Carlson and John Stalling made about cell phones for their tournaments, I liked their idea of allowing cell phones because I seen guys using cell phones at all levels of tournament circuits and it aint fair to us guys who don't use them. I heard of teams texting each other numbers, programs and sending pictures of their fish. It would be nice if everyone followed the rules but lets face it some guys don't. If your circuit's rules say cell phones are not allowed then they should be turned off, no calls at all, then there won't be any problems, if you get caught on your phone before your fish are weighed then you are DQ. It's simple..either let everyone use them or make everyone leave them in their trucks.
Good Fishing, Sammy Cappelli


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## OHBMQUINN

What dont you understand about rules if the rules clearly state no celuar comunications there shouldnt be any for any reason other than an emergency peroid one set of rules and you will have 10 diffrent preceptions of them DQ one of them and the perception becomes clear one set ofrules one perception cut and dry


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## Nipididdee

We've dealt with several rule specific matters during the years...the use of cell phones or any electronic communication devices has never been any kind of an issue at our events.

If the rule wasn't in place...I would suspect the multi-time winners of our events would have yet another reason as to why they won, according to some of the field. I would also guess some teams could turn into groups and fish to split yearly winnings. Either situation is not what we want to promote. 

We definately want them to be available for use for an emergency- that's the good side of the technology!


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## H2O Mellon

Nipididdee said:


> I'm usually shut down on the water and that's in my 14'er with batteries only  .


Man, I hear ya. There have been countless times when I wished I would have kept my 14 footer and the mighty 9.9 it had on it. 

This is a good post for a cold winter's evening.


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## jcfishing

Some very interesting opinions...

Walleye, Bass, Catfish tournaments... all seem to have a different take on the sharing of fishing information during a tournament.

Speaking strictly from the Walleye side, I see no reason for fishing information to be commuicated during tournament hours.

Networking and the sharing of information should only occur before an event.
It's also important to share what worked after the event to continue to grow the sport.

High end tournament rigs, fishing electronics, and a boat load of gear can only enhance an anglers skill. To me, the real competition is between myself and mother nature. The tournament provides an opportunity to compare how well I appllied my skills vs. other competitors.

Imagine how a newcomer must feel, competing against a network of experienced anglers. Add the sharing of information during tournament hours and we're not going to attract many to the sport.

Again it all comes down to the type of event... If the goal is to have the highest level of fair competition then there should not be any communication of fishing information allowed during tournament hours.


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## H2O Mellon

Some different ideas for some.

I tend to think otherwise about the newcommers though: Imagine how a newcommer would feel to come to the scales empty handed when all the rest of the guys have fish. If the sport is to grow wouldnt the idea of sharing w/ others while on the water help that out?


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## jcfishing

H2O Mellon said:


> Some different ideas for some.
> 
> I tend to think otherwise about the newcommers though: Imagine how a newcommer would feel to come to the scales empty handed when all the rest of the guys have fish. If the sport is to grow wouldnt the idea of sharing w/ others while on the water help that out?


I agree that we must grow the sport. We should help out new anglers or those that struggle. Talk to them and show them things during prefishing. Take them fishing between tournaments. Share the truth about what worked on tournament day and include the specifics. This will help them and help grow the sport. I don't think a 30 second phone call during a tournament will really help them learn anything but to rely on unfair communication.

Allowing communication during tournament hours, creates the impression that it's a not a level field of competition. How much difference it makes really doesn't matter. If a circuit or event wants to allow cell phone or radio use during the tournament, it's their choice. I believe their intentions are good but good intentions only go so far. 

I am sticking to my guns: There is no reason for the exchange of fishing information between competitors during tournament hours.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. Mine is not meant to offend or anger. It's simply an opinion.


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## Nipididdee

...and to think Tommy said you walleye guys were ten years behind the bass anglers. 


JC's got it...


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## buck.eyehunter

I for one think if the rules say no cell phones then no cell phones.. I think it makes it unfair to guys following the rules. I believe that is cheating and should result in dQ! I have seen guys in a tourny on there phone and wondered if it was fishing related, but you would never know.... I never use my cell phone in tournys, but think carrying it for emergency purpose should be allowed.

There are some tournys allow them and thats fine too then everybody has the right to use them. thats my 2 cents......................mike


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## flwboy2010

I think that it is a JOKE that the guys in Bass fishing cant even use a cell phones because there are so many CHEATERS in our area, If you cant do well without CHEATING then what kind of fisherman are you. Something needs to be done but no cell phones is not the anser,some of us have things going on outside of fishing Bass tournaments.


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## flwboy2010

I think that it is funny that most of the time the problems in this sport revolve around the same people in our area,if cleaning up our sport around here means we need to eliminate the ones who make us look bad and cause all the problems thats what we need to do. There is a reason certain people can not fish certain curcuits,and it makes it bad on all the guys trying to fish an honest tournament.


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## H2O Mellon

Kudos, to everybody for keeping this going as a discussion and not letting it get out of hand. I didn't expect it to last like this.

Someone spoke of cheating, I'm assuming that just like the catfish trails other posters in this thread are in/watch (Doc, Salmonid even myself) you Bass or Walleye anglers speak to each other on a regular basis. I am the kind of person that wouldn'e even think twice about cheating for the simple fact that if I was caught that my name would be smeared in not only the tournament trail I was fishing but others as well. It blows my mind my I read about a possible cheater. Competition, not matter how small or large it is brings out the U-G-L-Y in some of us.


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## flwboy2010

It is a shame, 99% of us are good guys trying to accomplish one goal,but unfortunatly there are guys that make it bad for everyone.I am very involved in this sport and i cant handle it when it is expected that someone cheated in anyway.It is a shame that in some tournaments there are guys that have 15lbs before must of us even open our eyes in the mourning,let alone using cell phones to better there tournament.


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## Nipididdee

easy FLWBOY... don't loose a fin 

I think you lost the point. It takes all types to make it go 'round- the good ,the bad and the ugly... eyes,catfish,bass,etc...can't help the bell curve of life.

Removing lines of communication stunts pointed fingers of those (hmmm) who are quick to call cheater...these guys hurt the group(s) as much as those who break rules intentionally.

Shoot I know tons of eye guys...I know they all cheat, THEY USE LIVE BAIT for goodness sake 

nip


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## Papascott

I personally could care less which way the rules are. If its open communication you can bet your bottom dollar my phone will be needing charged because I will be sharing info with the guys I work with. If the rules are no sharing of fishing info the phone will usually get left in the truck. BUT if its nasty I will have it in the glove box turned off but available for emergencies. 

In the tournaments I have fished I can say that none of the group of guys that I work with would break this rule. I know going I into the tournament what the plans of the teammates are. If I see Mike take off after his first pass I k ow he was not on fish if I see Gary shorten his trolling passes down I know he has a school of fish dialed in etc etc. There is no need to talk or text if your observant. 

The one thing I have noticed in all forms of competition is RUMORS! I ran demolition derbies with my brother for around 10 years and have been seriously fishing tournaments for 2. When people do well in anything competitive people will start accusing and smack talking. Often times its nothing but them feeling that if they are doing that good they must be cheating very seldom do you hear that damn those guys work hard and Kiko led our arses maybe we need to step it up a notch. Just something to think about.

Scott


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## Toolman

Speaking from the walleye tourney side (I've fished several bass tourneys back in the day...they aren't so different).

When money is involved (often large sums of money) some people will go to extremes to gain an advantage. It all comes down to playing by the rules. Be it illegial cell phone usage or any other method to gain an unfair advantage on the rest of the field. It's called CHEATING! Most forms of cheating are difficult to police but as previously mentioned if a violation is observed or even knowledge of a violation is obtained, it must be reported to the TD. If and when cheaters are caught, they should be DQ'd and blackballed permanantly. Harsh penalties are the only deterrent to tournament cheating.

Tim

BTW-I don't have a problem with the "fun" events allowing cell phone usage.


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## flwboy2010

What is comes down to is that some of us have our own business and we need to use our phones everyday and we are going to do that no matter what, and that is not cheating.


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## Triton20X

flwboy2010 said:


> What is comes down to is that some of us have our own business and we need to use our phones everyday and we are going to do that no matter what, and that is not cheating.


If it's in the rules that you can't use them (phones) other than for emergencies then your not obeying the rules. No one knows if your discussing business or not. That's part of the "gray area" these rules try to eliminate. No tournament director I know wants to spend time with a protest trying to determine if you were jawing to a buddy about a hot bait or discussing a drywall job!

If you, not being able to put that phone away for 8 or 8 1/2 hours on a Saturday or Sunday is that important to your livelihood you probably shouldn't be out there fishing in the first place.


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## JF1

Triton20X said:


> If you, not being able to put that phone away for 8 or 8 1/2 hours on a Saturday or Sunday is that important to your livelihood you probably shouldn't be out there fishing in the first place.



Couldn't agree more. There is no business that can't function without communication for a day. Period. Whether that person is the CEO, Owner, whatever. What did business owners do before cell phones? Never leave the office 24/7. 

I like the zero communication rule. There are some people who can't live with the fact that on a certain day, someone may have been a better fisherman than them. These people will claim the winner's cheated, and this is one way to limit the accuasations. 


Bottom line is if the rules are 0 cell phones or communications and you are on your phone for anything other than an emergency you should be DQ'd because your are breaking the rules.


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## buck.eyehunter

I was not pointing fingers at anyone, and there are tournys that state no cell phone usage for fishing related use, but like I said how would you ever no. I wont use one because I would never want to be labeled a cheater. I feel if you prefish correctly you would not have to cheat to do well. I would feel like s_ _t if I ever cheated and that would take all the fun out of it. so I will continue to follow the rules and continue to have fun......... mike


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## flwboy2010

I just feel that saying 100% no cell phones is a little much we are not fishing a professional curcuit here,sometimes the local tournements get taken a little to serious and thats why we have all the problems.Im sure the TDs will make it known one way or the other and the guys will just have to do what they have too.Its been fun talking to you guys about this but we need a new topic to discuss. Ha Ha Cya on the water.


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## BigDaddy300

flwboy2010 said:


> I just feel that saying 100% no cell phones is a little much we are not fishing a professional curcuit here,sometimes the local tournements get taken a little to serious and thats why we have all the problems.Im sure the TDs will make it known one way or the other and the guys will just have to do what they have too.Its been fun talking to you guys about this but we need a new topic to discuss. Ha Ha Cya on the water.


No its not the professional circuit but some guys can be using these local events as stepping stones for the bigger circuits. Also other anglers put a lot of time and money into fishing the local tournaments and are very serious about them. Some guys are very competitive and want to do well. If the rules say no phones then that's what should be followed no matter what the call is for. As stated, what would you do if there were no such thing as a cell phone and had to receive business calls? I'm sure if expected calls were so important you could arrange for some one else to take the call and handle it accordingly. I know I would not want a partner that would be so worried about his business calls that he would not be concentrating on the fishing!


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## flwboy2010

The business thing was just an example and beleive me i am very intuned to fishing when im on the water,but it could be anything you never know.I just dont like to have to be always looking over my shoulder when on the water.


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## BigDaddy300

flwboy2010 said:


> The business thing was just an example and beleive me i am very intuned to fishing when im on the water,but it could be anything you never know.I just dont like to have to be always looking over my shoulder when on the water.


But you used "we" in the example. But anyways, if you are not doing anything wrong then you should not have to worry about looking over your shoulder.


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## mikeshookset

Triton20X said:


> If it's in the rules that you can't use them (phones) other than for emergencies then your not obeying the rules. No one knows if your discussing business or not. That's part of the "gray area" these rules try to eliminate. No tournament director I know wants to spend time with a protest trying to determine if you were jawing to a buddy about a hot bait or discussing a drywall job!
> 
> If you, not being able to put that phone away for 8 or 8 1/2 hours on a Saturday or Sunday is that important to your livelihood you probably shouldn't be out there fishing in the first place.


cell phone rules are to stop anglers from passing information unfairly on the water and should be inforced with that in mind. i would never tell a buisness owner he couldnt use it for his job as that might be a protential sponcer. thats where if there is a poublem that records come in handy. if the records show that both parties involved was on the lake and it was during tournament hrs both boats would very likely be dq. no directer likes to handle a protest but it happens and we just have to deal with it when it happens and use some cominsence. if a tournament directer dont want to handle and investigate a protest then he has no buisness being a tournament directer. how many guys do you think would like to be fishing a tournament and have a contestant have his buddy on the lake and to be sharing information on a cell phone? just commensence if fishermen play right there wont be proublems but when they dont then the directers get put in situations they need to handle.


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## Triton20X

mikeshookset said:


> i would never tell a buisness owner he couldnt use it for his job as that might be a protential sponcer.


Too much gray area and you leave the door open for all kind of problems doing it that way.
Might work for you running a 12 boat tournament at Berlin where your fishing for $300 but on the bigger circuits with payouts in the thousands of dollars I want the rules straightforward and black and white, no exceptions!

If there is a emergency situation that may arise a guy can tell the tournament director beforehand with no problem. I saw a guy let the td know his wife was expecting and he may get a call. It was announced to the field prior to takeoff and everything was kosher.
There is a way to do it within the rules but you can't say this guy can call for this, that guy can make a call for that etc...Do you really want to spend a week (or more) retreiving and pouring over people's cell records!?

Ban the phones save for on the water emergencies or a special circumstance approved beforehand by the tournament director and save the business calls for after weigh in. That's it, very simple.

If that approach is too serious or interferes with life then ditch the big money stuff and join a local, more laid back bass club!


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## Cull'in

Triton20X said:


> Too much gray area and you leave the door open for all kind of problems doing it that way.
> Might work for you running a 12 boat tournament at Berlin where your fishing for $300 but on the bigger circuits with payouts in the thousands of dollars I want the rules straightforward and black and white, no exceptions!
> 
> If there is a emergency situation that may arise a guy can tell the tournament director beforehand with no problem. I saw a guy let the td know his wife was expecting and he may get a call. It was announced to the field prior to takeoff and everything was kosher.
> There is a way to do it within the rules but you can't say this guy can call for this, that guy can make a call for that etc...Do you really want to spend a week (or more) retreiving and pouring over people's cell records!?
> 
> Ban the phones save for on the water emergencies or a special circumstance approved beforehand by the tournament director and save the business calls for after weigh in. That's it, very simple.
> 
> If that approach is too serious or interferes with life then ditch the big money stuff and join a local, more laid back bass club!


Sounds good to me!


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## mikeshookset

Triton20X said:


> Too much gray area and you leave the door open for all kind of problems doing it that way.
> Might work for you running a 12 boat tournament at Berlin where your fishing for $300 but on the bigger circuits with payouts in the thousands of dollars I want the rules straightforward and black and white, no exceptions!
> 
> If there is a emergency situation that may arise a guy can tell the tournament director beforehand with no problem. I saw a guy let the td know his wife was expecting and he may get a call. It was announced to the field prior to takeoff and everything was kosher.
> There is a way to do it within the rules but you can't say this guy can call for this, that guy can make a call for that etc...Do you really want to spend a week (or more) retreiving and pouring over people's cell records!?
> 
> Ban the phones save for on the water emergencies or a special circumstance approved beforehand by the tournament director and save the business calls for after weigh in. That's it, very simple.
> 
> If that approach is too serious or interferes with life then ditch the big money stuff and join a local, more laid back bass club!


your wrong on several things here for 1 berlin is now drawing 20 boats and growing each year as guys see the effort i make in enforcing the rules and that i will pass out dqs and keep trouble makers out. i run the 10hp circuit the same way it has 50 boats at each qualifyer and fishes for good money. and yes i would most definatly pour over records to assure what was going on had nothing to do with the tournament that was going on. it wouldnt take a week to go thru the records as all you need to do is look at each record and see if the people invloved was on the phone to each other during the tournament hrs if they was then the prof is there if they wasnt then that shows also. the money involved should have nothing to do with a team fishing with HONEST INTEGRETY AND SPORTSMANSHIP. wheather a person is fishing for just plaques or $50,000 they should still be fishing by those 3 things if not then they should be busted ! i wont cost a guy work or a sale because i am to lazy to check the records and investigate to the point that i am sure it was something that had nothing to do with the tournament. the so called gray areas is what some anglers like to use for a excuse to bend or break the rules.the danger there is every set of rules i have seen has one that says the tournament directers dicision is finale. if after the dicision is passed down the contestant wants to carry on the argument then like in any sport they are looking to get ejected under the sportsman ship rule. i think my rule is black and white you cant use the phone during tournament hours to pass fishing information back and forth with other competiters and they cant be having a buddy on the lake the same time they are in a tournament passing information back and forth on the cell phone.


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## tcba1987

im gonna throw my two cents worth in..............IF cell phones are not allowed in the rules then they should not be used for ANY REASON............if you have a wife who is expecting a child ..........STAY HOME or ANSWER THE CALL and admit that you did it and accept your DQ for it ........i know i would if my wife were having a baby..........BUT cell phones should NOT be used for any reason if they are not allowed.........if you have BUSINESS to attend to.........STAY HOME or be willing to be DQd for answering the call IF it is that important..........there is too much room for excuse making and BS stories if you allow people to say I HAD A EMERGENCY CALL THAT I HAD TO ANSWER..........if cell phones are not allowed then they are NOT ALLOWED...........PERIOD..............NO EXCUSES. 

I understand some people have emergencies come up in their lives ..........believe me i do ..............but a rule should be a rule NO EXCEPTIONS !!!


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## tcba1987

flwboy2010 said:


> What is comes down to is that some of us have our own business and we need to use our phones everyday and we are going to do that no matter what, and that is not cheating.


Technically................YES .....................it IS cheating if the rules say NO CELL PHONES then it means no cell phones. It doesnt say no cell phones except for a few select people who think they are above the rules.............rules are rules follow them or stay home ...........its pretty simple IMO. 

If one person bends the rules for any reason then other people will follow their lead and think that if so and so can do it so can i !!!


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## HVAC-MAN

Well it looks like alot of interest in this topic?! I read every post and it still comes down to what John and Steve said...there isnt any way to enforce cell phones. If you see guys using cell phones you can turn them in, then we have to figure out if it was an emergency or not. If guys are texting-- most of the time their not going to be seen or caught. We spend alot of time and money to prefish and it is tough to cash a check in any circuit, there are a ton of tough teams out there and on any given day anyone can win, but when teams tilt the table their way by breaking a rule(cheating) it makes it impossible for us guys who follow the rules to cash. The only thing we can do is let everyone use them or leave them in the trucks. The porblem with letting everyone use them is teammates talking all the time instead of fishing. As far as buisness owners needing their phones...my teammate and I both own companies and we can get by for 8-9 hours without answering a call.....that is why we have voice mail. As far as emergencies, the inland lakes arnt that big and their are plenty of boats around to help if needed, and on lake erie everyone that I know has a ship to shore radio. I say if your club or circuit says no cell phones then it is NO CELL PHONES. If you get caught with one on the boat then you are DQ. Good Fishing, sammy cappelli


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## Papascott

Sam, I know what your saying about no cell means no cell but there are areas on Erie where a cell would be much more beneficial in an emergency than a VHF. As for with open communication who cares if another team is on the phone the entire time its the same rules for everyone and everyone has to catch their own fish. Or am I mission g something here?

A question about the illegal use with calls and texting and such. Are you sure these things happened or is it just being assumed, rumor of it happening?


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## ohioiceman

I was talking with an old Army buddy in California last month and this sorta came up. They are dealing with people having "runners" as he calls them. They are other fisherman not in the tourney but on the lake fishing helping to pattern the bass, or find a hot area or in an extreme example planting a fish and then calling the guy in the tourney and giving info.


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## reelmanly

Didnt Ike have a cell in his boat down on Wylie a while back and called to DQ himself for off limit waters. Just wondering, if that is the case guess the Big boys are allowed to have em on board. 2cents.


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## HVAC-MAN

Papascott said:


> Sam, I know what your saying about no cell means no cell but there are areas on Erie where a cell would be much more beneficial in an emergency than a VHF. As for with open communication who cares if another team is on the phone the entire time its the same rules for everyone and everyone has to catch their own fish. Or am I mission g something here?
> 
> A question about the illegal use with calls and texting and such. Are you sure these things happened or is it just being assumed, rumor of it happening?



I have hardly any phone service on Erie (alltel), so it doesnt matter to me if we allow it or not because if I leave my phone on it's dead in a couple of hours. I seen guys with my own eyes on the phone in all the circuits I fished, nothing is being assumed.


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## Papascott

HVAC-MAN said:


> I have hardly any phone service on Erie (alltel), so it doesnt matter to me if we allow it or not because if I leave my phone on it's dead in a couple of hours. I seen guys with my own eyes on the phone in all the circuits I fished, nothing is being assumed.


Did those tournaments allow phone use for non fishing communication? If they were without a doubt breaking the rules a protest should have been made. Its part of our job as tournament anglers to get the cheaters out. I personally have not witnessed cheating during a tournament, seen lots of stuff I considered bull crap but nothing against rules just inconsiderate and dirty.

I did see a photo taken during a tournament that showed 5 Rods in use on one side of the boat (was a 2 man tourney) from a tournament we both fished last year. I reported this to he director so they were aware but nothing could be done since the photo was not put on the internet until days later, well after the protest period was over.

My Verizon has very good service until I get either way offshore in the east or north of Kelly's near the border. Why not just ban fishfinders since some are better than mine or no tekotas since they might be better than someone else's okumas? LOL. Not really fair to make a rule against something because its better than yours. Lol


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## JF1

reelmanly said:


> Didnt Ike have a cell in his boat down on Wylie a while back and called to DQ himself for off limit waters. Just wondering, if that is the case guess the Big boys are allowed to have em on board. 2cents.


They are allowed to have their cellphones on them, but I don't believe they are allowed to use them in less they are calling the T-director for rules clarification, which is what Ike did when he DQ'd himself, or emergency. Also in the FLW, if they are fishing the alst day they use the FLW supplied boats w/ FLW supplied electronics. IF they have a problem with boat such as TM failure or electronics failure they can use cellphone to call in for a backup boat. The FLW has custom wrapped boats for their top 10 last day, and they have another 15 backupboats that are custom wrapped in case of an emergency. all are laid out w/ same TM and electronics.


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## flwboy2010

tcba1987 said:


> Technically................YES .....................it IS cheating if the rules say NO CELL PHONES then it means no cell phones. It doesnt say no cell phones except for a few select people who think they are above the rules.............rules are rules follow them or stay home ...........its pretty simple IMO.
> 
> If one person bends the rules for any reason then other people will follow their lead and think that if so and so can do it so can i !!!


Well bud if you think that the guys that anser non fishing related calls is cheating,you are one of the guys that would cause a problem and maybe you should stay home.That make no sense. Some of these TDs have a hard enough time pulling a full field let alone adding rules that create so much gray area.


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## FreeByrdSteve

Since my name has been used several times and the Huron OPEN tournament was cited as an example of OPEN COMMUNICATION, here is my take on things.

My overall belief is that the fewer rules / regulations involved with most anything (fishing, life in general, etc.) the better.

Why have a rule you can't realistically enforce? All it does is penalize the honest people.

If you open things up to EVERYONE then it is an equal playing field as much as possible.

Could allowing open communication give some of the "teams" an advantage? Probably - although for the most part the guys that are on "teams" put in more time pre-fishing figuring things out so they are going to have an "advantage" either way.

Truthfully rather than "pretending" that "networking / teams" don't exist - why not openly admit what goes on? Maybe get some side bets going between the "teams" and have some fun with it.

I fished several of the FLW Wlleye Tour events on the Co Angler side and once on the "Pro" side, as well as two PWT events on the amatuer side. Those events had some kind of "no communication" rule in effect and in every event I saw some questionable actions - some subtle (like hand signals - or a signal to team members while driving back for another pass based on the position of rods / nets in rodholders, or down on the deck), and some blatant - pulling up to a team mates boat and talking back and forth which would seem to be a clear violation but the FLW rule at the time was no electronic communication - so talking between boats was explained as legal???

I've also had the opportunity to fish a few saltwater tournaments and follow them pretty regularly based on the boat lines we sell. Teams / Networking / Open Communication are a common practice there and are openly encouraged - not hidden. 

The SKA (Southern Kingfish Association) www.fishska.com or the ASA (American Striper Association) www.fishasa.com or BIG TIME EVENTS like the WMO (White Marlin Open) www.whitemarlinopen.com or the Bisbee's Black & Blue Marlin tournaments www.bisbees.com are the events I follow or have been involved with.

These events all turn into HUGE EVENTS / PARTIES and are an absolute blast. The rules are pretty minimal and kept to things that can be enforced. Observers / Video are sometimes in play in these type of events. Not really practical for the typical walleye tournaments. These events have paydays in the six or seven figures - yep the payout in the WMO and Bisbees is sometimes over a MILLION $$.

In these events the teams are openly ackowledged. The boat manufacturers will often put up extra $$ for their teams, cover dockage and get all the boats docked together, throw team dinners / parties as part of the events, etc. Much like Ranger's successful marketting strategy of using tournaments to fuel their growth in the bass & walleye tournament world, companies like Contender, Fountain, Yellowfin do the same or more in the saltwater tournament world.

A lot of the money in some of these events comes from the options side bets / Calcutta bets. The FLW is trying something like this in the FLW tour this year.

It is my OPINION that walleye tournament world MIGHT do better if they tried more to allign rules / formats, etc with what happens in the saltwater tournament world, rather than how things are done in the bass world. To me there seems to me more similarity to walleye and the salt water fishing than walleye to bass. At least this to me seems to be the case for Great Lakes open water events - maybe not so much more inland type events which could be more similar to bass fishing in terms of "spot on a spot" structure fishing rather than predominantly "open water trolling."

The FLW tried a couple year run at salt water fishing events and it was pretty much a failure and was disbanded. Did the overall economy probably have A LOT to do with that? I'm sure it did, but I believe it was more that the FLW tried to run the Kingfish and Redfish circuits more like bass events with very restrictive rules rather than like the other successful events. The Bisbees, WMO, ASA, SKA have continued to flourish during this same time period.

With the open communication that these events have - word gets out when a BIG fish is coming to the scales - the events are true EVENTS / SHOWS. Granted the size of the fish and the $$s involved has a lot to do with the excitement generated. There are sites like sportfisherman.com that have incredible online coverage of these events.

To me the less restrictive the rules, the funner the event. Even with open communication - YOU STILL HAVE TO CATCH THE FISH.

To me the important rules are:
1) Start / Stop times with takeoff / check-in procedures - and even here if it wasn't a safety concern I'd love to do a Shotgun start. The one fun event I've done the past couple years with a shotgun start is the Cleveland Yacht Club members tournament that is a blast. Watching video of the SKA / ASA / Bisbee's takeoffs is awesome.

2) Ohio & USCG fishing / boating regulations.

3) Establish a legal number of rods to run during the event - as a way of trying to equalize opportunity between the smaller boats and the bigger boats with more people.

I see no good reason to have more rules than this.

To me a phone is potentially just one more "tool" - like a trolling motor, digital fishfinder, RADAR (did ya know with a radar you can track other boats movements???), linecounter reel, nghtcrawler, gulp, pro-cure, 55+ MPH boat, etc, etc, etc. BOTTOM LINE TO DO WELL YOU STILL HAVE TO CATCH THE FISH.

All of this is just strictly my opinion and how I'll continue to run the two OPEN events Fish Huron Ohio is planning on running next year - May 22 and Oct 2.

I admire what the WBSA / LEWT has been able to do in the past several years growing the LEWT into an awesome circuit. Obviously they have a more traditional / restrictive format and it is working for them. I've sponsored LEWT events through South Shore Marine and we will continue this in 2010. Fish Huron Ohio will also be supporting the WBSA / LEWT in 2010.

I wish the new Ohio Walleye Federation success with their events this year as well.

We've also been a sponsor to the Hawg Fest Open event.

The biggest thing is no matter what the rules are in any event is if they are known in advance then you have the opportunity to either decide to fish or not and you can only hope that everyone else follows the rules and if there are violations that they are dealt with and not swept under the rug.

Steve Carlson


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## Nipididdee

> The biggest thing is no matter what the rules are in any event is if they are known in advance then you have the opportunity to either decide to fish or not and you can only hope that everyone else follows the rules and if there are violations that they are dealt with and not swept under the rug.


You're hired!

Simply perfect in all respects- as well, I agree walleye and bass are apples and oranges in the waters we perdominately fish on a regional level, not to mention the "team" formats at times.

Amazing how this topic is as hott as it is.

Ten years ago...nada big deal.

These days- can't part without it...even when we give you a chance to do so for 8 hours.

I really appreciate the accurate spelling and paragraph formatting in your response. 

nip
www.dobass.com


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## Papascott

Great post Steve. Definitely gives a better perspective from your position as a director.


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## ezmarc

Rules get made because of past transgressions by some or many. Some get made for efficiency. Doesn't matter whether it's tourney fishing, driving down the hiway or playing cards. I wish someone would make and enforce rules about trolling ettiquette.

As far as cell phones in the LEWT, they ain't going away. We'll have some new guidelines in 2010 but Erie is far to unpredictable to be out there without one. 

Those that say they have seen people on cell phones during tourneys should have reported it, if you didn't then shame on you! Chances are tourney officiials were made aware of it before it happened but by not saying anything you walked away with an impression of something that may not be true.

If people are going to cheat they are going to do it whether there is a rule against it or not but in my experience they never get away with it forever. sooner or later they get found out.

Most of our DQ's have been for minor infractions with no willful intent involved but they were DQ's regardless. Some, many of you know about and others you don't. The one serious infraction we've had was dealt with harshly and at great expense to us both financially and emotionally. Even then you have friends of the accused browbeating you every chance they get and sometimes you just want to throw up your hands and say the Hell with it. Then you think about that 95 percent that thank you and appreciate what you are trying to do and just go on.

Now about networking: I dislike it, period! I think it has a lot to do with why FLW, PWT, MWC and AIM numbers are down and that it hurts numbers in the smaller circuits like the LEWT. I didn't mind competing against the Gofrons, Martins, Parsons and Skarlis's of the PWT but it was awful tough to compete against the teams they all belonged to. On the flip side of the coin the last 3 out of 4 points winners in the LEWT weren't networked but they did work there tails off and burn lots of gas and vacation plus make consistent good decisions to do it. 

I'd like to see an Erie tourney someday that is a secret location until 6 PM the night before with no prefishing anywhere. That would be your true level playing field. Wonder how many would just look for Pooh Bear?


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## SELL-FISH

First of all I see nothing wrong with networking, if you have a group of friends that have the same passion as you do of course you are gonna talk location and programs. As far as this being a reason why numbers are down in the big event tournys I totally disagree. It comes down to the economy period, just look at Michigan with the way the auto industry has tanked the people up there are just concerned about putting food on the table for there family not walleye fishing. I have been fishing walleye tournaments for over twenty years and have seen many come and many go, which is a total shame. I can honestly say one of the main reasons is because the people who ran them got sick of dealing with the bull$hitt. By B.S. I mean protests and accusations of cheating and I see it almost everytime I fish a tourny to this day especially in the smaller local tournaments. Basically this is jealousy or envy, anytime anyone is good at something people start to talk. I saw this happen along time ago to a guy who on Lake Erie was way ahead of his time and was always in the money, it was just recently til he was able to get back into the tournament scene and actually finished in the top ten of one of the big pro events. I totally give credit to anyone that helps promote the sport we all love Virgil, Carlson, and yes even you Marc. But one thing I will say is we need to stop all this whinney bitch bullshitt and get back to fishing. Just my 2 cents. Later Scott..


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## alumking

My name is Jami Norman and I run Ohio Mega bass Tournament Trail. I have strong feeling about this topic as well. So strong that at one time I put my *** on the line to stop this very isssue in a national tournament trail circuit. I was succsessfull in getting the rule instituted but got a lot of flack in the process. I have the opinion that rules that can't be enforced should not exsist but there are exceptions. First lets talk about hiring a guide or getting info from a guide or professional fisherman. I feel that you should allow it. The reason is every single person who fishes my tournament has the same opportunity to hire a guide if they want too. And for the most part a guide is not going to win the tournament for you but he will give you patterns and baits that will cut down the learning process for your practice on that body of water. Cell phones and clicks do not offer the same equal oppurtunity. What about teams not from the area are they going to have any friends to call them? My feelings are that fishing tournaments should be about hard work,(pre-fishing) then executing the day of the tournament. I dont see the benifit of having a team never pre fish show up to the tournament ask for location and pattern. Is that competitve fishing? If it is I will go back to golf. It would be funny if a golfer could call someone else to hit his ball for him. Cell phone rules are in a gray area but so are no wake rules. As a tournament director I can tell you if someone complains about a no wake violation the other person being accussed always has a different story. Now what do you do? I guess you could say no rules get em guys. I have to hope that guys abide by the rules we set forth. And I belive that almost every single team in my circuit does just that. I belive there is no integrity for the sport once you allow winners to be determined by the most friends calling them or the best information that day at that lake. Doesn't hard work and the ability to pattern fish count anymore? I let everyone carry their phones for buisiness or emergency situations but tell them if you call other anglers to give them spots or info on bass in any way you are disqualified. If I have to I will have them take a lie detector if needed. It is all you can do but allowing them to break this rule just because you think it can't be enforced in not an option.


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## flwboy2010

SELL-FISH said:


> First of all I see nothing wrong with networking, if you have a group of friends that have the same passion as you do of course you are gonna talk location and programs. As far as this being a reason why numbers are down in the big event tournys I totally disagree. It comes down to the economy period, just look at Michigan with the way the auto industry has tanked the people up there are just concerned about putting food on the table for there family not walleye fishing. I have been fishing walleye tournaments for over twenty years and have seen many come and many go, which is a total shame. I can honestly say one of the main reasons is because the people who ran them got sick of dealing with the bull$hitt. By B.S. I mean protests and accusations of cheating and I see it almost everytime I fish a tourny to this day especially in the smaller local tournaments. Basically this is jealousy or envy, anytime anyone is good at something people start to talk. I saw this happen along time ago to a guy who on Lake Erie was way ahead of his time and was always in the money, it was just recently til he was able to get back into the tournament scene and actually finished in the top ten of one of the big pro events. I totally give credit to anyone that helps promote the sport we all love Virgil, Carlson, and yes even you Marc. But one thing I will say is we need to stop all this whinney bitch bullshitt and get back to fishing. Just my 2 cents. Later Scott..


Yes man the bs should stop,but i do not agree why numbers are down for one i have been layed off for a year and i didnt miss any tournys last yr.I also have alot of buddys that are layed off and they make it happen too.The guys that are diehards and are true competition fisherman make it happen.They just fish the curcuits that truely take care of there guys.Whether its a small or large tournament.


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## mikeshookset

alumking said:


> My name is Jami Norman and I run Ohio Mega bass Tournament Trail. I have strong feeling about this topic as well. So strong that at one time I put my *** on the line to stop this very isssue in a national tournament trail circuit. I was succsessfull in getting the rule instituted but got a lot of flack in the process. I have the opinion that rules that can't be enforced should not exsist but there are exceptions. First lets talk about hiring a guide or getting info from a guide or professional fisherman. I feel that you should allow it. The reason is every single person who fishes my tournament has the same opportunity to hire a guide if they want too. And for the most part a guide is not going to win the tournament for you but he will give you patterns and baits that will cut down the learning process for your practice on that body of water. Cell phones and clicks do not offer the same equal oppurtunity. What about teams not from the area are they going to have any friends to call them? My feelings are that fishing tournaments should be about hard work,(pre-fishing) then executing the day of the tournament. I dont see the benifit of having a team never pre fish show up to the tournament ask for location and pattern. Is that competitve fishing? If it is I will go back to golf. It would be funny if a golfer could call someone else to hit his ball for him. Cell phone rules are in a gray area but so are no wake rules. As a tournament director I can tell you if someone complains about a no wake violation the other person being accussed always has a different story. Now what do you do? I guess you could say no rules get em guys. I have to hope that guys abide by the rules we set forth. And I belive that almost every single team in my circuit does just that. I belive there is no integrity for the sport once you allow winners to be determined by the most friends calling them or the best information that day at that lake. Doesn't hard work and the ability to pattern fish count anymore? I let everyone carry their phones for buisiness or emergency situations but tell them if you call other anglers to give them spots or info on bass in any way you are disqualified. If I have to I will have them take a lie detector if needed. It is all you can do but allowing them to break this rule just because you think it can't be enforced in not an option.


i agree with alot of what you have to say. but the gray area part is what anglers try to use to put us tds in a spot, when actually it puts the angler in a spot because if a angler thinks there is a gray area its his or hers responsiblity to get the directers rulling on it before the tournament starts. then there is no gray area because the directer is the one that enforces the rules . if a angler plays in what they want to call a gray area then gets protested and dqed then he has only hiself to blame for not fully knowing the rules to start with.


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## OHBMQUINN

Gee I guess we will have to call an inturpurtator on this or better yet how about evryone make up your owne rules bacause when rules say no celular comunications its the same as the no wake bouys no right turn signs no parking no dumb a--es ect its really simple but there are those who take a ant hill and make a mountian out of it and some just have learning curves this is whare TDs and judges ect have to help them out my last 2 cents on this


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## BigDaddy300

flwboy2010 said:


> Yes man the bs should stop,but i do not agree why numbers are down for one i have been layed off for a year and i didnt miss any tournys last yr.I also have alot of buddys that are layed off and they make it happen too.The guys that are diehards and are true competition fisherman make it happen.They just fish the curcuits that truely take care of there guys.Whether its a small or large tournament.


Good for you and your buddies if you can be out of work and still be able to spend the cash on a non-necessity but saying that the "diehards and true competition fisherman" can make it happen is wrong. Scott's reasoning as to why numbers are down has to factor in. Are there other reasons? Probably but I think the economy is a main reason. I would love to still be fishing competitively but the needs of my family come first and I am sure there are others that feel the same way. I know I will get my time for tournaments again.


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## lordofthepunks

alumking said:


> My name is Jami Norman and I run Ohio Mega bass Tournament Trail. I have strong feeling about this topic as well. So strong that at one time I put my *** on the line to stop this very isssue in a national tournament trail circuit. I was succsessfull in getting the rule instituted but got a lot of flack in the process. I have the opinion that rules that can't be enforced should not exsist but there are exceptions. First lets talk about hiring a guide or getting info from a guide or professional fisherman. I feel that you should allow it. The reason is every single person who fishes my tournament has the same opportunity to hire a guide if they want too. And for the most part a guide is not going to win the tournament for you but he will give you patterns and baits that will cut down the learning process for your practice on that body of water. Cell phones and clicks do not offer the same equal oppurtunity. What about teams not from the area are they going to have any friends to call them? My feelings are that fishing tournaments should be about hard work,(pre-fishing) then executing the day of the tournament. I dont see the benifit of having a team never pre fish show up to the tournament ask for location and pattern. Is that competitve fishing? If it is I will go back to golf. It would be funny if a golfer could call someone else to hit his ball for him. Cell phone rules are in a gray area but so are no wake rules. As a tournament director I can tell you if someone complains about a no wake violation the other person being accussed always has a different story. Now what do you do? I guess you could say no rules get em guys. I have to hope that guys abide by the rules we set forth. And I belive that almost every single team in my circuit does just that. I belive there is no integrity for the sport once you allow winners to be determined by the most friends calling them or the best information that day at that lake. Doesn't hard work and the ability to pattern fish count anymore? I let everyone carry their phones for buisiness or emergency situations but tell them if you call other anglers to give them spots or info on bass in any way you are disqualified. If I have to I will have them take a lie detector if needed. It is all you can do but allowing them to break this rule just because you think it can't be enforced in not an option.


i would love to see a cell phone ban in all tournaments this would simply give me a reason to make my partner leave his in his truck so his goofy kids and wife dont call him every 10 minutes to ask how we are doing and when we will be done. as far as what jami says, i agree with everything he said however i hate the idea of a guy hiring a guide to find fish for him. that to me is the epitmoe of "bending the rules" and its been outlawed in B.A.S.S. I could never respect a guy that won a tournament in that manner.


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## JF1

lordofthepunks said:


> i would love to see a cell phone ban in all tournaments this would simply give me a reason to make my partner leave his in his truck so his goofy kids and wife dont call him every 10 minutes to ask how we are doing and when we will be done. as far as what jami says, i agree with everything he said however i hate the idea of a guy hiring a guide to find fish for him. that to me is the epitmoe of "bending the rules" and its been outlawed in B.A.S.S. I could never respect a guy that won a tournament in that manner.


I'm torn on the hiring a guide piece myself. I don't think I would ever do it, but if someone wanted to fork out the cash and had the time to hire a guide to show him a lake I'm not sure I can hold that against him. Now if he did it the week before a Tourney, that might be a bit different. Butt, if a guy hired a guide to show him Chataqua for ex, or take him out on Erie, because he wanted to learn some spots for next year or even a few mos from now, that might be a bit different.

Hell, when the Forrest Wood Cup came to PGH last year there were pros staying at a few local guys who I know homes and having them take them on the river daily. No these weren't paid guides, but in the end, isn't that the same thing?? David Walker even fished a few local club night tourneys up the allegheney to learn the river from some guys.


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## K gonefishin

I don't care who you are or what level of the game you play at local to FLW to BASS...network, team or 1 man show...EVERYONE who fishes tourney's is getting info from somewhere, somebody, somehow. 98% of the time they aren't paying for it but you can bet your ass guys aren't going on the water blind on game day if they tell you otherwise your flat out being lied too.


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## Marshall

Its up to the tournament director to come up with the rules. These guys do a lot to make these events happen. They put in a lot of time that people don't actually see how busy they are. They cannot please everybody. Some people are going to always have a different opinion on different matters. The tourney director has to come up with a set of rules that is best for everyone as a whole and stick with it. Some people may not like it but no one is forcing them to fish. They can always try to find a circuit that fits their needs better or just deal with it and follow the rules like everyone else has to. I understand where some are comming from with the cell phone issue, last thing i want to do in a tourney is talk to someone on the phone, Guess im glad im not that important! The guide thing doesn't bother me. I see it no different as a fellow OGF'r from northeast ohio calling me up cause they have a tourney at say Alum Creek and coming down and meeting with me to fish the lake to practice. Its a resource, of course fishing with me a few days won't guarntee anything! Conditions and patterns change quite frequently.


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## Nipididdee

On the water communication/information is fine and dandy, even encouraged at our events... before, during and after the event. I think we all know how that goes when applying to fishn' though...and you can't yell from one end of the lake to the other 

but "...electronic communications" is a different story- I have no doubts "the enemy" will tell the tale in the long run with most any _decent size open_ angling organization who allows their use...again, and as many who have suggested, it's all perceptionary in the long haul and "naysyers" response to those perceptions.




> Its up to the tournament director to come up with the rules. These guys do a lot to make these events happen. They put in a lot of time that people don't actually see how busy they are. They cannot please everybody. Some people are going to always have a different opinion on different matters. The tourney director has to come up with a set of rules that is best for everyone as a whole and stick with it. Some people may not like it but no one is forcing them to fish. They can always try to find a circuit that fits their needs better or just deal with it and follow the rules like everyone else has to.


You must be a beautiful man Marshall, cuz I wanna kiss you on the mouth :Banane41:

nip
www.dobass.com


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## Papascott

Nipididdee said:


> You must be a beautiful man Marshall, cuz I wanna kiss you on the mouth :Banane41:
> 
> nip
> www.dobass.com



Wow and I thought fly fisherman were funny, you green carp guys are even worse!


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## misfit

> Wow and I thought fly fisherman were funny, you green carp guys are even worse!


haha.just another reason i don't fish bass tourneys


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## Nipididdee

bass anglers fear little, bass tournament directors fear nothing


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## lordofthepunks

K gonefishin said:


> I don't care who you are or what level of the game you play at local to FLW to BASS...network, team or 1 man show...EVERYONE who fishes tourney's is getting info from somewhere, somebody, somehow. 98% of the time they aren't paying for it but you can bet your ass guys aren't going on the water blind on game day if they tell you otherwise your flat out being lied too.


its one thing to have some dude in the parking lot tell you he caught some fish down by the damn with a purple worm, yeah everybody does that, but if your hiring a guide to do your pre fishing the week of a tournament then you are about as much of a fisherman as my brother, who plays the "give me a rod and real with whatever lure you choose and tell me where to cast" role. just isnt sporting, alot of us put alot of work into this stuff and to have someone with deep pockets and no pride beat you, thats just cheap. feels like cheating to me. but i dont care, do whatever makes you feel like a better fisherman even though we both know you didnt earn it. and by the way, your right, we aint going out blind on gameday, we PRACTICE.


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## Marshall

Im flattered but no thanks, Nip. My buddy fishingredhawk may take you up on it though!


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## K gonefishin

lordofthepunks said:


> its one thing to have some dude in the parking lot tell you he caught some fish down by the damn with a purple worm, yeah everybody does that, but if your hiring a guide to do your pre fishing the week of a tournament then you are about as much of a fisherman as my brother, who plays the "give me a rod and real with whatever lure you choose and tell me where to cast" role. just isnt sporting, alot of us put alot of work into this stuff and to have someone with deep pockets and no pride beat you, thats just cheap. feels like cheating to me. but i dont care, do whatever makes you feel like a better fisherman even though we both know you didnt earn it. and by the way, your right, we aint going out blind on gameday, we PRACTICE.


Hey man your not telling me nothing, I'm one of the most dedicated walleye fisherman this lake has every seen, my whole life is practice on and off the water. I do whatever I can to become a better stick, on the topic of hiring a guide...that's weak sauce and I would never do it and I second your points as well about it. I'm just saying guys do get info one way or another be it the web, a friend, bait shop, guide over the phone etc.


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## lordofthepunks

your right. i wasnt trying to insenuate that you were one of those guys. my point was about the guys that do those kinds of things to get an edge. sorry if it sounded like that.


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## tcba1987

I still say rules are rules.......if they are not enforced in ANY tournament there is going to be problems........i fish catfish tournaments and also run very small catfish tournaments and participate in small local weekly bass tournaments and there is people at all levels who will "bend the rules anyway they can to gain a advantage"..........either have set rules that will be enforced or run a "outlaw format" where no rules are enforced.........You wouldnt believe the way some people will do ANYTHING to win a tournament no matter how small the payouts are........ive seen it in small catfish tournaments where participants will have a hot spot that is producing fish that they have either found themselves or heard about through word of mouth and they have actually had family members/friends "save them the spot by having them sitting hours before the start time of the tournament and having them sit on the spot until their friends arrive at tournament time and they pack up and leave the spot so that their buddies can have the specific spot and fish it for the tournament..........is there any way to "prove it" ..........nope..........did they get thrown out of the tournament.........nope..........but weeks later they were dumb enough to brag about it to a friend of a friend who then told the tournament directors about it happening.........yeah i know you could say that it is just word of mouth or rumors and that you have no way to actually PROVE that they did it...........well that is the problem with ANY RULE that you let the "grey area" come into affect.........if you are gonna let one guy use his cell because he said he had a emergency to deal with well then you will have other guys with "emergencies" that come up at almost every tournament........then who is to say if someone is cheating or abusing the set rules ??? You and i both know that you CANNOT submit everyone to a lie detector test (its too expensive)...........so who do you single out and test ??? do you let friends of the tournament director slide when they do it and then single out a new guy who maybe has only fished one or two tournaments ?? It is a touchy subject at all levels of tournaments no matter how much money is involved with the pay outs..........some guys will cheat for $20 believe me they will........i think it all goes back to this.........IF you are gonna fish in tournaments you have to be willing to trust EVERYONE and follow the rules and hope that EVERYONE else does or tournament fishing just isnt for you ........focus on fishing for FUN and forget the tournaments..........but as we ALL know not EVERYONE can be trusted so by entering any tournament you are basically "taking a chance at any level of tournament fishing" that everyone will play fair and follow the rules !!!


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## alumking

mikeshookset quote:
i agree with alot of what you have to say. but the gray area part is what anglers try to use to put us tds in a spot, when actually it puts the angler in a spot because if a angler thinks there is a gray area its his or hers responsiblity to get the directers rulling on it before the tournament starts. then there is no gray area because the directer is the one that enforces the rules . if a angler plays in what they want to call a gray area then gets protested and dqed then he has only hiself to blame for not fully knowing the rules to start with. 

Boy I agree with you there. I have a partner in one of my tournaments that the girls will not leave him alone! Mr Jigalow get a text about every 10 minutes. Talk about distracting! I would venture to guess if someone seen him doing this some anglers would belive something fishy was going on.I may take a look at my rules for 2011 and make cell phones totally off limits. If an emergency arises then they must find a competitor or someone to make the call in front of them. I do belive that when the money gets bigger the incentive to share information gets smaller. We all have the desire to win. Giving info in a state that is already difficult to be a consistant winner from lake to lake takes away your competitve advantage. 


when I fished professionally I watched the pros get info when they were not allowed to and it drove me nuts! That is one reason
I put our rule about hiring a guide it tends to even the palying field. If you have ever hired a guide most of the times they are giving you community holes that will help you but usaually you will have to expand on it if you want to win. Ohio based circuits with fish-offs out of state have no way of telling if people are getting info or going out with a guide so why put the rule in force? If I felt that you could hire a guide have him show you some spots then show up for the tournament, practice one day and win I probably would not allow it either, but lets face it most of the time that is not the way it works. I do know one thing being a tournament director kind of sucks! Lets put it this way dont try to make everyone happy because it is not going to happen! All you can do is your best and try to make the majority happy!

Jami Norman www.ombtt.com

Merry Christmas to all from Me and OMBTT.


www.knoxmarine-ltd.com
www.kriegerford.com
www.moorsresort.com


jami


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