# Quick Fishing/Progress Report



## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

I got out last night on one of my local flows, and had a hell of a night. I came across another angler I had recently met when I was putting in. As he was taking out, he told me that the bite had been tough. I knew water conditions were very slightly rising, and I was hoping that this coupled with the wind, would put me in good position to try some new techniques.

The main win for me of the evening, was fishing in a spot I rarely ever fished, on a flow that I know very well (or thought I did.) I found a point, with wind blowing into it, current moving away from it, and all the water in the general vicinity was moving in some direction. I sat for awhile mid-river, studying how the surface of the water was moving. It got very calm for those 10 minutes, and I was able to identify precisely what the river channel does in that stretch for the first time. Once the wind picked back up, I positioned myself in the best spot I could figure, and began throwing some soft plastics onto the opposite channel bank, drifting dead sticked baits with light twitches over the rocks. 

I was awarded with 5 good fish in 20 minutes. I've fished this flow a lot, and generally get largemouth in the 16" range, smallies in the 14" range, and saugeye in the 17" range. Last night I got three smallies over 16" and (burly as heck), a largemouth around 18", and a 21" saugeye. All from one spot.

I guess the reason I'm writing this report is for other beginning anglers. I've only been fishing rivers consistently for 3 years, but there's always tons to learn. I HAD thought I'd been fishing the river, but I'd really just been fishing the banks and cover. Last night was one of the first times I was able to fish the river itself, the channel and structure, and it paid in spades. Get out there, take some time while the water is low, learn where the water moves. You might find something you've been overlooking for years, and have a hell of a night.

Have a good week everyone,
Ryan


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

What a great report Ryan! I've never studied the flows that well and it shows in my limited catches. I guess I understand the terms you are using but not sure why it makes a difference which way the wind is blowing and switching banks.... Never got into it that deep and know I really should have. This is my first year fishing in ages (like 15) and am always open to suggestions. 

I try to fish a lot cover but I feel like I'm missing out on so much. One of those 'find the cove and fish the deadfall' types of guys.

Thanks for the info. 

Ben


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## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

Hey benjamin,

There's no problem with that man! I did the same thing for the first 2 years I had my kayak. There are plenty of lesson's to learn fishing coves/deadfall as well. The thing that's helped me the most, is to read as much as I can when I'm not on the water, and try as many things as possible when I am on the water. Learning comes slowly I've found, but it definitely comes. This year has been miles better for me than previous years. And I look like a HERO compared to my first 2 years of getting skunked 7/10 times.

Most important lesson I've learned thus far:
There are some general rules of thumb and they may not apply, good luck.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Good job, Ryan. Were you up or downstream from where that run comes in on the west side? I'll bet I know the guy you ran into.


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## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

Streamstalker,

Downstream. Indeed you do know the guy that I ran into. We're conspiring to steal all of your inline spinners.


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

Rybo,
Outstanding report and observations! 

I don't fish rivers, only because I prefer lakes/ponds. It's the moving water that bothers me, I guess. The only thing that moves me on a lake/pond is the wind and depending on the size of the body of water, I prefer to troll. 

Perhaps I should give it a try, but there's no decent rivers in my area.  Just the same, it certainly sounds like you've got it sorted out and it's working.

Bowhunter57


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

Rybo,

Thanks for the comments. I think one of the keys to learning is getting out onto the water with other yakkers so that you can learn from each other. I've fished with USMC_Galloway already and I'm going out with Yak-On this weekend. Hopefully one day I'll get to fish with you all and we can share knowledge and techniques to make us all better fisherman.

Let me know if you want to hook up!

Ben


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Always keep your eyes open, when you catch a fish not where you thought out should be, paddle over and see what's going on there. I like to blind cast more and more looking for fish, hidden structure. For sm, current is everything, depth isn't a concern, active fish will go super shallow, finding them without spooking them is hard.

Just got off phone with galloway, he 's heading this way to try out the coosa and tarpon, love getting the boats wet!

Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

Doing the autopsy is something I learned from one of your posts and have started to implement recently. I think that I probably understand Largemouth more than Smallies and thats the frustration. I enjoy catching Smallies more. Largemouth in many ways are predictable throughout the day but Smallies are a lot different. 

By the way, you two suck. I'm stuck in my office and you guys are floating? I call BS.



StuckAtHome said:


> Always keep your eyes open, when you catch a fish not where you thought out should be, paddle over and see what's going on there. I like to blind cast more and more looking for fish, hidden structure. For sm, current is everything, depth isn't a concern, active fish will go super shallow, finding them without spooking them is hard.
> 
> Just got off phone with galloway, he 's heading this way to try out the coosa and tarpon, love getting the boats wet!
> 
> Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Lol, creek too low, more of a drag. Just letting him test drive a couple kayak 's, one pool is floatable, but big enough to see how each works

Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

Careful, he likes to shoot the rapids!!



StuckAtHome said:


> Lol, creek too low, more of a drag. Just letting him test drive a couple kayak 's, one pool is floatable, but big enough to see how each works
> 
> Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

I think he liked the coosa. Standing the first time he didn't think it would be ok to fish from, just like I thought, but after ten minutes he was standing like a pro. Water wasn't high enough to test how out acts in current, but think he knows what it feels like. Great to meet you, hopefully we can float in two weeks.

Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

Stuck, that would be awesome since I have my daughter next weekend (no kayaking for me ). 

I feel like I've hijacked this thread and want to get back on point a little bit. Bubbagon shared a lure tip with me that cause me to go read an article about how to fish the lure. There I learned more about bridge pylons. Those 30 minutes taught me alot and allowed me to catch a few smallies around some pylons. Now I'm working to advance that towards other lures and fish types. Learn one thing and then take it from there. When I went out with USMC_Galloway, I spent a lot of time watching his location selections. When I get to go out with Bubbagon I'm going to pay a lot of attention to where he throws lures. With Stuck it'll be holes and locations. Just from talking with them on here I've learned a lot. Don't be antisocial, go out on floats with these guys.

Just because you are out on a friendly float doesn't mean you can't learn a whole lot from each other!

Ben



StuckAtHome said:


> I think he liked the coosa. Standing the first time he didn't think it would be ok to fish from, just like I thought, but after ten minutes he was standing like a pro. Water wasn't high enough to test how out acts in current, but think he knows what it feels like. Great to meet you, hopefully we can float in two weeks.
> 
> Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## USMC_Galloway (May 13, 2011)

Great report Rybo. I have not had the time to sit on the water like you did tonight, but using the blind casting technique rather than waiting has allowed me to catch a lot more this this year than just fishing visiable river structure. 

As for the Coosa, I am a huge fan . It is amazing what you can see being that 3-4 feet higher off the water. What they did to the hull of that boat is amazing. This will be my kayak for next years spring fishing! I hope this allows me to see the big rocks I pass over and never get a good cast into, which will equal more fish! 

Thank you Stucky for allowing me to come over and give it a test run, and for letting me win a game of pool! 

Also stopped along the Scioto on my way home and caught a nice LM on a white spinner ...


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Lol, only lure you'll ever need!

Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

Larry, what is blind casting?

Stuck, is the white spinner inline like a rooster or regular one? I've heard the legend of you and your spinners and want to give it a try this weekend.

Ben


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Safety pin type spinners, big ones you use for largemouth. 3/8 white, willow leaf, colorado's too much lift, can't burn them. Love the terminator ones, nine bucks a pop, the stainless ones aren't bad but break, only five each. Cast TIGHT to structure, if your not on it no fish, two feet away, no fish. Reel quickly, it never gets over a foot deep, will call fish from deep water. Run the spinner into structure, it won't snag, after it bumps something fish go wild, if fishing slow, helicopter the lure after hitting the rock, wood or seem, let it fall a second then reel fast. You can cover much water, and cast it into the nastiest snag without fear of losing it. Another tip is if your not snagging at all, your not getting close enough. Biggest key is pinpoint casing, that's why some catch many fish and most get next to nothing fishing same lure.

Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## USMC_Galloway (May 13, 2011)

My understanding and what I call blind casting is casting into the river. You dont really have any structure you are aiming at or anything of that nature, you are just hitting water you havent disturbed yet. You can hit rocks you didnt know were there and allow you to hit fish that havent been spooked yet. 

If you do this and pay attention to where you hooked up on your fish, this can allow you to build a pattern of where the fish are laying..... in theory ...


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

My understanding of structure is solid parts of the waterway you are fishing, like rocks and such. Movable items are cover or plants and overhanging trees. I think you mean like bridge pylons and rocks right?



StuckAtHome said:


> Safety pin type spinners, big ones you use for largemouth. 3/8 white, willow leaf, colorado's too much lift, can't burn them. Love the terminator ones, nine bucks a pop, the stainless ones aren't bad but break, only five each. Cast TIGHT to structure, if your not on it no fish, two feet away, no fish. Reel quickly, it never gets over a foot deep, will call fish from deep water. Run the spinner into structure, it won't snag, after it bumps something fish go wild, if fishing slow, helicopter the lure after hitting the rock, wood or seem, let it fall a second then reel fast. You can cover much water, and cast it into the nastiest snag without fear of losing it. Another tip is if your not snagging at all, your not getting close enough. Biggest key is pinpoint casing, that's why some catch many fish and most get next to nothing fishing same lure.
> 
> Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Structure can be about anything, rocks, wood, extra, also it can be much less visable, current seems, eddies, humps and holes.what I like to do is after fishing a spot is paddle up to it and check the depth, eddies and right after rapids, and do this yearly, surprised how the river changes after big floods. Also most fish below structure in current, the upstream side can be better, where I get some of the biggest fish from. It takes years of watching how current behaves, but once you understand it, the fish act the same regardless how big or small a river is.

Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

Stucky, this is actually exactly what I did, except I did it with my lure before paddling over. I had a feeling there was a nice channel swing there. Bumping my bait around I could feel what was happening, and then I hooked up. After releasing the fish, I casted into an are very nearby, and worked that angle... BAM. Then again. And again. Feels good to get on them like that.

As for the Coosa, it is amazing. I was finally able to paddle one a couple of weeks ago. I was standing on the nose down a riffle, doing 360s. That boat handles like a dream. It's a little looser than my Commander120, but still very stable. I'll be picking one up next year. Whenever we go on floats I'll bust some moves for you guys. #impeccablebalance

benjamin: I believe you to be right: Structure is the river bed itself. Rocks, gravel bars, sand bars, drop offs, ledges, etc. Cover is moveable objects as it were: Trees, vegetation, root balls, foam trails, etc. If it drives the current, its' structure. If the current mostly passes through over under around it, it's cover. Doesn't matter, both are key elements. Some are just better it certain times.

Also, the Bubba you REALLY want to talk to is little Bubba. LITTLE Bubba, has been putting the spanking to the older Bubba we know and love so well. Out with the old in with the new!

Bubba: C'mon. 

USMC Galloway: I like your technique, I had just modified it a little bit. Call it guestimation casting, haha. Taking a few moments to see how the wind and river bed was affecting the current, thinking on what the bass were wanting this time of year, water temps, etc. I didn't know if I was right though, so then came the bit of blind casting. Turns out I was though. 



StuckAtHome said:


> Always keep your eyes open, when you catch a fish not where you thought out should be, paddle over and see what's going on there. I like to blind cast more and more looking for fish, hidden structure. For sm, current is everything, depth isn't a concern, active fish will go super shallow, finding them without spooking them is hard.
> 
> Just got off phone with galloway, he 's heading this way to try out the coosa and tarpon, love getting the boats wet!
> 
> Sent from my htc thunderbolt from my kayak


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

So I watched this video:






and will now be waiting for my money tree to bloom so I can get one!


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## jlieder (Jul 23, 2010)

I wish this board had more threads like this one. There is some great info for someone like me who is first year kayak fishing and hitting the Maumee with some regularity. I am just now beginning to understand that I can learn something every single time out on the river. The variables change every time, depth, wind, current, and other conditions. Just yesterday i fished a spot I had not previously fished and learned some things...some good (nice fish) and some not so good (invisible snags and rocks!).

Any way, thanks for the insights!


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Ryan, from what you described, the wind can also help reveal bottom structure. I have often seen where a ripple will reaveal a channel or drop off. The water can ripple in shallow/slow areas in a light breeze and still be calm where it is flowing. I've especially used this in upper reaches of a reservoir to determine where a stream channel is.


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## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

Streamstalker: My current issue with what you're talking about, is when the water is over 5 foot deep, sometimes 10+. Where is the structure that's causing the surface irregularity? At a higher flow, with deeper water, I almost have to sit on top of the irregularity to get my bait down (1/4oz) in the strike zone in time. The timing is a bit weird. I could use heavier weights, but then I'm sacrificing some action.

jlieder, glad to hear it! That's awesome that you've started kayak fishing this year. I'm fairly new to it as well, going on 3 years. There's always tons to learn on the river. One thing is certain, virtually everytime you get on the water and paddle, you pass multiple fish that could be a new personal best for you. They don't appear out of nowhere, they're always there. 

Welcome to the nightmares that keep me up at night. I know I've been within 30' of 20"+ smallies, probably on my home stretch... They're there, I have to get to THEM.


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## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

streamstalke: I used the wind the same way you described that day. As a matter of fact, the main river channel was nowhere near where I thought it was a year ago. It's over 80' away! I'm learning to slow down and really look at my surroundings and piece together what's happening in areas I can't see. 

If I were an intelligent 17 year old smallie, where would I be? Probably in areas not easily identified.


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## scappy193 (May 11, 2009)

this thread is a great example of why i joined this sight in the first place. thanks for starting it Rybo and thanks to everyone else for making this a great read. i'm still pretty knew to fishing creeks/rivers and newer yet to the kayak scene. this thread gives me a lot of things to think about and maybe a new yak to look at as well. awesome thread guys.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Good thread. Lots of good info being thrown around.
For me, river fishing is ALL about current. They're either IN the current, and by in I mean hiding behind a rock or sitting in a small depression on the bottom with current running around or over them. Or near the current; i.e. current seams and eddies. Or on structure near current.
Some days and times that right current is turbid, and other days the current you're looking for is more laminar; or slow and steady.
For a good period this summer all of the big fish were off structure, and hanging in depressions in laminar current.
If you didn't recognize it, it would seem the fish came out of a "nowhere" spot.

So teh only thing I'd disagree with would be where older smallies hang out.



Rybo said:


> If I were an intelligent 17 year old smallie, where would I be? Probably in areas not easily identified.


I've always subscribed to the theory that the biggest, best smallies will be in the BEST spots.
Up on my stretch, you'll see this during periods when the water is high. The best smallies will be in the best eddies; right at the top of the eddie below the most significant riffles.
During laminar periods the best fish will be in the best depressions, or behind the best rocks (best rocks to me are ones that are completely submerged and are a dark brown color....don't ask why)
And when they're on cover, it will be the biggest, best rootwad (lots of food), that has a big undercut bank (protection from above), near the best riffles (oxygen and more food).

When things are rockin, you can see good spots before you even cast. You know then when you float up on them and aren't that surprised when a pig hooks up.

Of course, a lot of these current rules go right out the window about this time of year. LOL!!
This time of year you'll notice that the shad are balling up in certain places...usually based on current. Find the shad, find the smallies.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Here's the first of a series of articles on Current from a buddy of mine. He is an unbelievable river smallie fisherman...unbelievable. 
He wrote this for the Illinois Smallmouth Alliance:

_We as river fishermen are affected by current in all aspects of our fishing experience. How many of us really understand how it functions and how it affects our fishing? This will be the first in a series of articles I plan to write about current, current situations and objects in the water that affect current flow. The fisrt article will be the primer, so to speak, of the series.
To start with, gravity moves water downhill, this movement is what we call current. The steeper the gradient, the faster the current flow. Riffles and runs are what we associate with this faster flow. What we think of as pools are places where the gradient decreases and/or there is an obstruction that slows the current. The gradient is the inclination or slope of the land's surface in the direction of the flow.
The velocity of the flow is affected by several other factors. They are discharge, which is a quantity of water passing through any cross section in a given unit of time and the form-ratio, which is the proportion of the depth to the width of the stream. Water temperatures have some effect as warm water is more fluid than cold water. In straight flows the maximum velocity
occurs in midstream near the surface. In bends the maximum velocity occurs near the surface on the outside of the curve.
There are two types of flow recognized in limnological texts. Laminar flow is more or less defined as all the water moving in a parallel course in one direction. These texts state that laminar flow is seldom found in nature. Turbulent flow is defined as multiple eddies in a variety of sizes with all the water moving in all directions as the main flow goes downstream. This mixing of the water is caused by friction with the air-water interface, the bottom of the river, the shoreline and any obstructions in the water's path. This friction that slows the flow and the upper water that moves faster rolls and mixes the water which aids in the distribution of oxygen from top to bottom. The difference in flow rates from top to bottom contributes to the bow in your line as you fish.
Fish hold on the bottom of rivers because the drag of friction on moving water significantly lowers current velocity. This creates an area you can think of as a slack water zone. The slack water zone is a place where fish can hold and conserve energy. They can hold until they need to move for reasons of survival, i.e. predation, changing water levels or spawning. This bottom slack zone is where most of the fish will be found most of the time. Where do you think you should be fishing? The larger the objects on the bottom of the river and the faster the current flow the larger this slack zone will be. These two factors- size of objects and current velocity- can cause distrubances on the surface of the water that we note when reading the water.
The Law of Fluid Dynamics also affects current flow. This involves conservation of Momentum if I understand the texts correctly. Basically what I got from this was that water does not like to bend as it goes around corners and when the velocity of water decreases it's pressure increases.
Please don't ask me to go into great detail as that was rwo aspirin reading.
When water hits the front of an obstruction it stops and moves sideways toward the current flow. It also moves both toward the bottom and the surface at this point. You may get a visible bulge on the surface if when the speed decreases the increase in pressure is enough to push water up in the surface. You can also get a slackwater pocket at the base of the obstruction due to these changes. This pocket, if it forms, is a key feeding area for the most dominant predator in that spot.
On the downstream side of the obstruction you get another slackwater area. This is because water does not like to bend. The size of this slackwater area is limited only because the pressure of the faster water going around the obstruction is lower than the higher pressure of the slower water in the slack area. this causes a mixing of the waters as it moves from the slacker water to the faster water. The turbulence from this mixing is what we think of as a
current seam. The slackwater area gets narrower as you look downstream because it's losing it's energy to the lower pressure of the faster downstream flow.
A slackwater pocket forms at the base of a riffle[lift] on both the upstream and downstream sides of the riffle. This pocket is an excellent feeding area especially in warmer water. As the faster moving lower pressure water moves over the top of the slower moving higher pressure water mixing occurs limiting the size of the slackwater area. This causes the turbulence which is a familar sight to river anglers. On the upstream side of the riffle the bulge that is present is a result of water being pushed up by the change in water pressure.
When a river bends the current picks up speed on the outside edge and a current seam forms on the inside edge where the current slows. The faster current on the outside moves sediment and carves away at the bed and bank of the river. This is why you have deeper water on the outside of a river bend. The slower current allows sediment to be deposited on the inside which is why the water is shallower and you get that familar point bar at
that location. if the angle of the bend is sufficient an eddy is formed. In this eddy friction with the bottom and the shore further slows the current. This variety of current speeds, depth changes, changes in the direction of the current and slackwater zones make this a place for holding out of current and for excellent feeding opportunities.
Turbidity in a river is the presence of suspended solids in the water. Turbidity reduces the transmission of light either thru scattering or absorption. This reduction in light can affect water temps, the amount of aquactic vegetation, fish location and fish activity levels. From what I read the amount of sediment load can affect current velocity in different ways due to
a number of different factors. The consensus seemed to be that with a higher sediment load there would be a slight reduction in velocity once everything was factored in. Once again this was two aspirin reading that would require lots of specific details to go any further.
Now for a brief primer in reading water. Start by looking at the surface for differences in speed and the seams created by those changes. Look to changes in current direction, turbulence such as boils and bulges, slicks and changes in water color that denote differences in depths, You should look for areas where the current narrows forming feeding lanes that concentrate food washing downstream. If you can see a foam line that is an excellent way to track feeding lanes. If multiple foam lines or feeding lanes converge that can be a key spot for the most dominant predator in the area. Look for objects in the water or in the shoreline that can deflect current influencing current
direction. Next look for objects in the water that can serve as ambush points for feeding or for cover when fish are spooked by predators or careless, heavy footed fishermen.
Remember that boils on the surface indicate the presence of underwater objects that can hold fish. These boils will be downstream of the object, just how far depends on the size of the object and the current velocity.
I know this was a little technical but hopefully it will help those new to river fishing. It may also offer new insights to crumudgedy old river rats.

Peace Be Unto You
Norm Minas aka Creekyknees _


If you get the chance, check out the Illinois Smallmouth Alliance website and forum. LOTS of good articles on their main page and in the forum, and anything that Norm M writes is worth reading twice.
http://illinoissmallmouthalliance.net/html/education/index.html
http://illinoissmallmouthalliance.net/forums/index.php


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## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

Thanks for the acknowledgements gents!

Bubba: I'm going to have to come back and read the article from your friend a bit later (swamped this week). In response to your other post however, you're right. I think what I should have said was "places you might not expect." I think the laminar flow smallies that stucky was popping this year were a big surprise to me as a novice angler.

I've also experienced the best fish in the best spots. Most of those times as a kayak angler, those spots are the most difficult to get a presentation into. Perhaps you have to park and wade through a riffle, or you might only get one chance to drop a lure in there as you pass by. Happened to me on darby not long ago: I was coming up on a pretty small pool in the middle of a riffle. The pool was only 8' long, 4' wide, but it got deep and there was a root wad there. I noticed two roots creating an awning of sorts, and threw a tube right in the sweet spot as I cruised by. Fighting good sized smallies in the middle of tight current sure is harrowing, haha! (About a 17"er, big for that day.)


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## leckig (May 11, 2005)

Rybo, you may find it curious that your handle is an inflectional form (case) of the Polish noun "fish". How clever!


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

> When a river bends the current picks up speed on the outside edge and a current seam forms on the inside edge where the current slows. The faster current on the outside moves sediment and carves away at the bed and bank of the river. This is why you have deeper water on the outside of a river bend. The slower current allows sediment to be deposited on the inside which is why the water is shallower and you get that familar point bar at
> that location. if the angle of the bend is sufficient an eddy is formed. In this eddy friction with the bottom and the shore further slows the current. This variety of current speeds, depth changes, changes in the direction of the current and slackwater zones make this a place for holding out of current and for excellent feeding opportunities.



I love these spots which are so common on our gravelly farm creeks. If you find a horseshoe beach with about a 10 ft. high bank on the opposite side, it's a good place to walk the bank for a while. We have so many of these features which can stretch for as much as a hundred yards--sand & gravel on the low bank and corn on the high bank. Great places to toss the lure upstream and let the current help it find the soft spots. 

If I'm floating through those spots I have good luck making short lateral casts with a jig and letting it bounce a little as i float through. I've caught some beauties right next to the yak doing that.


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