# CC update 11/27



## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

Trolled for about 3 hours. Tried on the south side of the lake across from the swimming beach. Nothing. Water temps at 50.5 pretty much everywhere i checked. A bit windy on the down wind side, leeward was nice though. About 4 boats other than myself on lake. Anyone know where a good place to troll is? I'm kinda lost when it comes to trolling for muskies. Any info could remove alot of acerage of trolling through open water.

Spent some time zooming around, I found a bad plug wire yesterday and fixed it. Come to find out my motor has been running on basically 3 of 4 cylinders. I opened up the throttle this afternoon and about got thrown from my seat. Surprising how that 4th cylinder will maker her run. Only bad thing is that I proped the motor with the engine running 3 cyls., now on 4 it can handle a bunch more pitch...and resulting speed. Yahoo.  

Maybe next time, 
BB


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

I trolled all summer for musky and never caught one. Occasionally I would see a post from someone who had been fishing for Saugeye that had caught a musky. But I dont remember ever seeing a post from anyone who was targeting musky that had caught one. 
I can show you on a map where some decent dropoffs are but thats it. If there is anyone that has had any luck trolling for musky at Caesars Id be interested in hearing about it as Im sure a lot of others would be.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

Usually musky anglers are known for being about the most closed lipped than any anglers...including the striper guys.
You've certainly got my interest up from these posts. I know I have an In-Fisherman musky video & they would troll dropoffs with one lure one the shallow side and one deep. I think just from experiance trolling for any fish, it's wise to run a zig-zag pattern so the lure travels in some undisturbed water. Also that alters the speed of the lure triggering strikes. I don't know about CC, but I do know that avid musky guys like to run a lure right in the prop wash too.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

Another thing they did was to make up a "mail route". They would hit several spots trying to raise a fish. Then they would make the rounds & then I forget, maybe hit all the spots the next day, or they would hit them all twice in the same day, early & late bite. Always doing a figure 8 on each cast too.
Obviously any spot you raised a fish, was a spot you always hit, but they wouldn't wear it out after a follow.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm with lazy on trolling all summer, I spent a whole summer trolling at Cowen Lake several years ago & never saw a musky, except a few caught by other guys. They wouldn't tell me anything either.


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

I agree with mrfishohio about musky fisherman being a closed mouth group. But I think that the more interest that is generated in musky fishing at Caesars the more likely the stocking program will continue. So in my opinion by keeping quite about your success you are only going hurt the chances of the stocking program continuing. I dont think most of the guys that post here want to be given the honey hole location, if you knew where to catch fish every time you went out it wouldnt be much of a sport.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree with lazy. Tight lipped in this case could hurt the fishery. But I believe muskie are roamers , meaning they are not territorial such as a large flathead . They roam the flats in lakes in the summer , and go where the forage fish takes them??? So " honey holes " don't pertain to Muskie ?? THE CATKING !!!


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

Ill be the first to admit that all I know about muskies is what I read and Ive seen articles that support arguments for roaming and non-roaming. Personally I think they may be both roamer and non-roamers in a single lake. If a musky has everything it needs, food, shelter and a preferred water temperature, in a certain area they may not roam to far from that area. Kind of like me, never stray to far from the dinner table.


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

Big B, there is an interesting article in the Oct/Nov issue of Musky Hunter magazine on trolling for musky that could apply to Caesars. Trolling for Dummies, my kind of article.


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

I read something where a guide would take guys out and after finding a school of baitfish, troll around it in big circles hoping to catch something waiting for a straggler. It seemed like a sound strategy so I may try it next time out. Also, I only have 2 rods(set up for Muskies), and know that the guys who fish lake st clair on a regular basis use about 7-8 rods (2 down rods, 2 normal, 2 on planar boards and one in the prop wash). That has pros and cons though, there are quite a few woody snags in CC and I'd hate to have to untangle half a dozen lines because I got one caught up, but it definately increases the chances of a fish seeing one of your lures. 

I think the success of having Muskies continually stocked lies on the happiness and numbers of those who hunt them. If only a few of us fish for the things and continually post that we've never seen them, the number of folks who are looking at coming to CC for a try may be limited. Many folks go to LSC because there are many fish caught and those guys tell each other where and what produced (look at rocketman's website), hopefully making everyone elses trips successful. Recently I've seen many more muskie fishermen on CC than those who post here, but only a few of us try to contribute to the betterment of the whole. I just hope those who have found a technique that works, will share the method (not necessarily gps coordinates). 
I also believe if OHMC would host an outing here that everyone could benefit from it. A full day of folks fishing for muskies who will share information when it is all said and done, with those who are genuinely concerned with the fishery, can bring much to the table for all concerned. OHMC has many hard core muskie hunters who have more time on the water than many of us combined, especially when it comes to trolling.
The ones who would benefit most would be the ODNR who is in dire need of scale samples. Just my $0.02.

BB


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

Be sure to have enough people on board to qualify for


> the guys who fish lake st clair on a regular basis use about 7-8 rods


 
One of the lures that was hot on Cowan was a super size rattle trap, I think in a blue color. I think muskys are known for being difficult, I know Mepps makes lots of spinners designed for them. There ought to be tons of catchable size fish in there by now.


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

I've seen a half dozen fish at or near 30" and a couple would have gone half a foot longer, so I know they are in there. Those fish can't be more than 3 years old, as much shad as they can engulf over a year. I'd bet any of the original stockings are over 4 feet by now. I think one thing different between CC anc Cowan is the size of the water. In Cowan, if i'm not mistaken, just troll the sand bar that comes off the main point in front of the little marina/boat ramp, or cast the weed beds. The lake is about 1/2 the size of the north pool at CC, I've only been there once since they have a 10hp limit (ergo the sailboat owners make the rules  ). 

I'm not sure the max poles per person in Ohio, I know WI it was 2, MN is 1...guess I'd better look it up, ignorance is no excuse. I had thought of that though.


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## crappie12 (Apr 10, 2004)

Hey guys. I was in Bass Pro Outlet this morning and learned that they (BP) are having a "Musky and Pike Fishing 101" seminar on Dec 15 at 7pm. Thought maybe there might be some on this site that would be interested. 

Also, as most already know, Ohio only allows 2 lines per person. Last time I fished in Ontario (several years ago) they only allowed one line per person. Don't know Michigan's law any more (even though I was born and learned to fish there). So, in case your fishing St Claire, you might want to keep track of your position in relation to borders. Canadians are pretty rigid concerning their fish laws.


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Wow ! Miss a day, miss a lot. These threads are the best!

I dont think musky fishermen are any more secretive than other species anglers. Several years ago, I fished weekly bass tournaments on East Fork & I believe that bunch would lie just to keep from telling the truth. My partner knew most of them, because he was a member of 2 bass clubs, but theyd not give out ANY accurate information even after the tournament was over! They'd hide their gear & tell you they'd fished where you knew NOBODY did!

On the flip side of the coin, I was drifting around a Cave Run creek while eating lunch when another boat asked if I was a musky guy & then pointed me to the laydown that theyd been fishing & told me to go stick the uncooperative 3-footer that wouldnt hit for them.

I wont usually hand out specifics on a bulletin board, but will via private e-mail or to new friends on the water. (lazy, big b: What do you want to know?) I dont believe that there are any real secret spots & Ive spent too much unproductive time on great spots, @ the right time & tossing the right bait to feel proprietary about fish that I MIGHT catch.

Location: One of the things that I believe makes locating muskies difficult, in our impoundments, is that baitfish location is not perfectly predictable. In a natural lake, the baitfish hang around the weedbeds because weeds provide both food & cover, so the predator fish are generally convenient to those weedbeds as well. In a shad-based system, the shad feed on phytoplankton, which have no meaningful self-propulsion & so are moved only by wave action. Simply put, the shad are largely moved by the wind & the predators either follow or stage where the bait will be blown to them: hence the proven tactic of fishing wind-blown structure. As someone mentioned, some trollers will cruise until they locate concentrations of baitfish & then fish all around them.

Multiple lines: Im strictly a caster but had a regular partner who would toss out 2 lines while eating lunch, etc.. His assessment was that the 2nd line, particularly if one or both was a long line, was a real hassle for one angler. If you hit anything, fish or snag, the 2nd line is in your way. He lost a nice fish on Cave Run, when it jumped, as he was trying to clear the 2nd line.

Size: 3 years to grow a 30"+ fish here & I've seen reports of a few approaching 36". (A reliable biologist told me that 70% of all biomass in the OH River watershed is shad, so a growing musky has lots to eat!) I believe that max lifespan in OH is around 12 years, so any surviving fish from the original stocking would be pushing 4'! I met a bass fisherman in Bass Pro Shop who claimed to have had a 4'-er up to the boat last Spring.

Judging by the weather & lazy's report, our season may be done shortly. The Bass Pro seminar sounds interesting & there's a musky show in Columbus in February to help us get through to warm water again....


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

Good post Cincinnati and thank you for your offer on information, much appreciated . I my opinion we need more of this type of cooperation to figure out these toothy critters at Caesars. As much as I hated to do it, I put the boat up for the winter yesterday after I returned from the lake. They most likely will pull the docks sometime this week which makes launching difficult especially if theres much wind blowing.

To add to your list of musky shows this winter, I believe there will also be something at the boat show at Hara Arena in Dayton in Jan. Im not sure who will be there but last winter there was seminar by Crash Mullins who guides at Cave Run.


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## Scarletfisherman (Jun 24, 2004)

Hey Everyone;

From the Dec/Jan Musky Hunter -- here are some Muskie Shows in the Mid-west:

Dec 15 -- BassPro Cincy -- Muskie & Pike 101 Workshop (confirmed at site)
Jan 7-9 -- Extreme Muskie expo at Robert Morris U. in Pittsburgh
Jan 14-16 -- Chicago Muskie Show at Harper College
Jan 28-30 -- Minnesota Extreme Muskie expo at Medina Entertainment Center
Jan 27-30 & Feb 3-6 -- Dayton's Hara Boat Show (Crash Mullins is scheduled)
Feb 11-13 -- Milwaukee Muskie Expo at Wisconsin State Fair Park
Feb 25-27 -- Ohio Muskie Show at Buckeye Hall of Fame Cafe in Columbus
Mar 11-13 -- Minnesota Muskie Expo at National Sports Center in Blaine, MN
Mar 18-20 -- Chicago Extreme Muskie expo at Odeum Sports & Expo Center in Villa Park, IL
Apr 1-3 -- Madison (Wisconsin) Muskie Expo at site tbd
Apr 16 -- Muskies Canada's 2005 Muskie Odyssey at the Quality Hotel & Parkway Convention Centre in St. Catherines, ON

In addition, there's a Professional Musky Tournament Trail (PMTT) event at Cave Run Lake on April 16-17 that might be fun to go to. I checked the Cabela's websites for the Dundee and Wheeling stores, but saw no Muskie workshops. Has anyone been to the new Wheeling Cabelas?

I also read that a Gander Mountain will be build at I-70 and SR-202 in Huber Heights next spring and the Dicks/Galyan's store should be ready in the spring, too.

Finally, everyone probably heard about GS Outfitters in Dayton offering 1/2 price on all fishing items. I went yesterday and all muskie items were gone, but there are still some good bargains to be had. They are selling down their inventory to update and replenish.

I'll be putting my boat up this week and hunkering down for the winter. Maybe a trip to Florida to try for some big bass to keep up my morale.

Happy Holiday Season to all and Thanks for sharing your fishing information,

Scarletfisherman (David)


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Haven't been to any of the others but can recommend the Chicago show @ Harper College. In addition to the vendors & seminars, there's a poolside demo & an after hours lure swap @ a sports bar on Saturday.


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

How about we have a muskie fishing seminar for Caesars Creek. We'll have all the local anglers out to share the tactics that have produced all year long. We can have a lure swap of all the lures that have produced the largest fish of the season. Maybe we can charge for admission. Perhaps we should schedule two shows each day on a Saturday and Sunday, so everyone who wants to see all the shows and seminars can see them. I figure each show may last about 30 seconds. That ought to cover all the aformentioned bits of information. The lure swap may be instantaneous so don't worry about taking too much time for it. I really don't think we'll have a problem with parking either. Any ideas?

 BB


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## Scarletfisherman (Jun 24, 2004)

... we may have to get the restroom facilities unlocked for the occassion, but a great idea.  

Seriously, someone will have to take the lead to get us organized, as most of us think getting together is a good idea. I would be willing to help in January, as December is already full. Anybody interested? Pike? big_b16? Lazy? Mr. Muskie?

Shoot ... we could select a date at the Dayton Boat Show and just meet there.

Scarletfisherman (David)


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

Im for a meeting, all we need to do is pick a time and place. Scarlettfishermans idea of having it at the Dayton Boat Show might be good, no worry about the weather and we can see Crash Mullins seminar. Plus, the boat show is only runs for 3 or 4 days so it narrows the window for picking a date. Some of us have met and others havent, so we would need some way to identify the group if we meet any place other than the lake parking lot.


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

When is the boat show?


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

Dayton show would be great. You guys rock!!!!!
I could try to get buckeye tom there also excellant stream muskie fisherman.
Fishcrazzzzzzzy. I've got about 15 other people that could be interested also.


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

Dayton's Hara Boat Show is Jan 27-30 & Feb 3-6 Crash Mullins is scheduled for a siminar.

If there is any interest in having a get together we could have it on either or both dates.


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## Scarletfisherman (Jun 24, 2004)

When we find out when Crash Mullins is presenting, we will notify everyone and hopefully can have a good turnout for his presentation and a CC Muskie Meeting. See you there!


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## roadman (Apr 7, 2004)

Fishcrazy and I are both members of Muskies Inc. It would be way cool if we could get enough people together to start a chapt Of Muskies Inc. in Southwest Ohio!!!

A lot of the northern clubs think the Odnr is wasting money and fish by stocking the lakes down here... *We need to prove them wrong!!!*


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

Roadman, the northern clubs have us southern boys at a slight disadvantage I think.

The three top producing musky lakes in Ohio are Clear Fork, Leesville, West Branch.
The Odnr started stocking each of those lakes in 1994, four years before they stock Caesars Creek. Both Clear Fork and Leesville had received 7000 musky and West Branch had received 14,476 musky before stocking began at Caesars Creek.

Of those three lakes West Branch is the largest at 2300 acres, Leesville 1000 acres and Clear Fork 971 acres. From what I could see from the maps Ive pull up West Branch is the deepest at 35 feet, Leesville 30 feet and Clear Fork 15 feet. I may be wrong here but I think each of those lakes have weed beds something we dont have at Caesars. Caesars Creek is over 2800 acres and has depths of over 100 feet in places. And from reading some of the other musky message boards I think the northern guys are willing to give out a lot more information about their fishing success, where their hitting, on what baits, trolling or casting, what speed and depth they were trolling when fish were caught, etc.

I think if we had the same condition here I might even be able to catch a musky, notice I said "might be able to".


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

Only one person thought that stocking caesars is a mistake because its not in his back yard, and he is entitled to his opinion. I think Caesars creek is going to take off. I heard that the fish are growing faster than anywhere else in ohio. No weed beds are a problem, but does'nt mean you can't catch fish on wood, deep humps, points. I asked a KY pro what he thought and this is what I got.
The most important part of a cast are the first four feet and the last four feet.
Find out the food source and match the forage or don't match the forage by a contrasting color or erratic action.
Figure 8, figure 8, figure 8 and also figure 8 on every cast.
Slow down
Get down or up to slightly above the fish(Eyes are on top)
Hopefully this helps.

Oh yeh Worry about finishing your first cast before making another.
Fishcrazzzzzzzzzzzy
Information is a terrible thing to waste, so is fishing time with work!!!!!!


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

Information compiled by the Ohio Husky Musky Club scale sample returns for Caesars Creek:

2001 - 2 scale samles returned
2002 - 10
2003 - 9
2004 - 8 as of the end of October.

Cowan Lake had 7 retures as of the end of October.

Our time is coming.


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

Oh it will all change, yes it will... I spoke with an old wise man in a dream whilst we were smoking the peace pipe and he told me "when the sun commeth up and the watereth is warm, you too grasshopper will slay the devil fish you seek". I translated his broken victorian language to mean "...you will do well in the spring when the water warms up". Plus, now that we've got some ideas where the fish hang out we should have a much better chance when they start haunting the shallow water again. I think they swam south for the winter now. Happy holidays.


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## lazy (Apr 10, 2004)

Big B, the next time you talk to that old guy do you think you could ask him what bait I should be winging in the spring. If I know it advance it will give me all winter to seek out and stock up on thoes super secret type baits


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

LOL Dynamite. Flying Lure That crankbait you wind up. Im going to try lightning shads. no kiddin they work at alum
Fishcrazy


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

Who's going to the bass pro show on Wednesday? Anyone have any information on the particulars?


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

I was in Bass Pro today & the Wednesday musky presentation is still on the schedule. Begins @ 7PM by the fish tank. 

Didn't ask, but wonder if we might be getting a "professional" presentation: Gregg Thomas was in the store promoting his guide biz in KY & on Mille Lacs, MN.


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

It might be pretty good show.


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## skipjack11 (Apr 12, 2004)

I might go if I don't have to work too late and don't feel too tired. It would be nice to see the rest of the gang again although I will definately be at seminar given by Crash at the boat show.


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## roadman (Apr 7, 2004)

I should be there with Fishcrazy. If I don't have to work late.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Been watching this thread. I might make this also. The wife doesn't have to use the pick up as far as I know.......... Hey Super Dave !!!!! Whats SUPPPPPPPPPP  THE CATKING !!!


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## roadman (Apr 7, 2004)

My overtime has slowed down a little so I have a little more free time to visit a little. 
I hope everybody has been doing well!!! 

I haven't really been fishing since my last trip to Eagle creek. Just kind of lost the drive.

Hopeing Trip to Bass Pro will rekindle the urge to go out fishing in all kinds of weather!!  

Been averaging 60 to 70 hours a week at work. The worst part about working overtime is you dont really have any more money (always another bill to pay)


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## crappielooker (Apr 5, 2004)

when is this goin on??


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## roadman (Apr 7, 2004)

Begins at 7 pm by the fish tank!


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

waste a trip to Bass Pro? This is the 3rd time that I've been "stood-up" @ one of their advertised clinics. You'd think I'd have learned by now.


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

boy cinci, that would have chapped my ass if I'd have driven down there. that's what happen when you try to trust a bass fisherman's word.


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## roadman (Apr 7, 2004)

They moved the class to the conference room. The guy that was supposed to give the class didn't make it and they didn't expect many people to attend. There were about 40 people there in the conference room.

Still a pretty good meeting though....


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## skipjack11 (Apr 12, 2004)

I had to work late so I missed it. I'll see you all at the boat show.


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Conference room? What conference room?


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

The conference room is in the back of the store, just down the hall from the rest rooms ( 1st floor-behind the boat display)


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

Calcutta and a Croix. Yee Haaw!




Not!!!!
should have been there pretty cool. Better selection of tackle there now and I gave them my wish list.
Fishcrazzzzzzzzy


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

26336 WOW That's how many Muskies have been stocked in Caesars Creek since 1998.  Now I'll have to find the mortality rate for stocked Muskie. Water Acreage is 2830. What is the forage? Shad Are muskies scared of Boat traffic? What type of Muskies were Stocked in Caesars Creek. 2002 there were 1828 Kentucky Muskie( Boy, talk about intelligent fish. LOL I could not resist) Stocked. Are the rest Hybirds? Merry Christmas Everyone.
Fishcrazzzzzy


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

Are there any muskie in CC spillway.
Fishcrazzzy


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

There isn't no open water Now.LOL
Fishcrazzzzzzzzzzzzy


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

I've seen recruitment numbers as low as 10% annually - that is if you stock 100 muskies, there will be 10 (10%) that survive the first year & 1 of those ten (10%) will survive the second year, etc.. Stocking the advanced fingerlings, 9-13", in the Fall is supposed to significantly improve the first year's survival rate, but I'd guess that 40-50% would still be VERY high. 

Since there is no natural reproduction in our waters, you can easily see the necessity for high stocking numbers in order to build a significant population.

Also makes you appreciate how lucky a big old fish has been.


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

Can the stocked fish reproduce? I think hybrids are sterile (some call them tigers), I can tell you the one I caught wasn't a tiger though. Is it the goal of the DNR to stock the fish only and not to rely on natural reproduction or stock until significant levels of natural whoopee occur? I guess I never understood the goal of stocking a fish in a body of water if the goal was to not have them thrive on their own.

oh yeah...on a side note (please take no offense if you are from Kentucky, or know anyone from Kentucky, etc.) maybe the fish only try to reproduce with thier own brothers and sisters and thus don't have a high success rate. (again this was in jest, not insinuating that folks from certain areas of this great nation would partake in inbreeding)


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

There is no significant natural reproduction in OH lakes, even though the fish go through the motions as the water warms each Spring. 

All stocked fish are pure strain, not hybrids, because hybrids, as a result of their northern pike heritage, are less tolerant of our warm water temps.


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

KY chapter of Muskies, Inc is holding a 2 day tournament on our beloved, & relatively unknown, musky pond - May 14 & 15. 

Our little secret is about to be discovered....


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## fishcrazy (Apr 6, 2004)

Yep It's going to be good should get some samples then. I'm going to hit the lake hard after Ice out. Non stop asult this year, i fish muskie my boys fish saugeye. Try it!!! While you muskie cast throw out chartruse jigs behind the boat bouncing off structure. I caught a bunch of eaters this way.

Fishcrazy


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