# proof that saugeyes reproduce



## pizza

while it is known that saugeyes can and do reproduce, I caught what I believe is proof on Sunday while fishing Griggs. I caught a cigar 8" saugeye. Seeing as how saugeyes haven't been stocked in the scioto river system in years and the fact that they grow to over 8" in a year, I offer this as proof that saugeyes are reproducing. In each of the last 3 years, I've also caught at least 1 or 2 dink eyes in the 6-9" range in the Scioto system(Griggs/Oshay reservoirs).


----------



## misfit

i hate to rain on your parade,but they do still stock griggs and o'shay 
that dink you caught is from last year's stocking.
i'm not denying the fact that they can reproduce in isolated cases,but the ones you catch are almost definitely stocked fish.


----------



## pizza

my bad, I didn't think that Griggs or Oshay had been stocked with saugeyes in like 5+ years.

I'm not sure how many times a year they typically stock saugeyes, but according to this, they do not appear to have been stocked in June of 07.

"Saugeye were stocked in a number of popular fishing spots, including Alum Creek Reservoir, Hoover Reservoir, Deer Creek Lake, Buckeye Lake, and Indian Lake in central Ohio."

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/news/jun07/0618stocking/tabid/18438/Default.aspx

I am very interested in #'s of eyes stocked in Griggs or Oshay in any of the last 5 years. Not doubting you, just curious.


----------



## misfit

saugeyes are generally stocked in the spring,and were stocked last year at o'shay and griggs.they just don't get the concentrations of hoover,indian and others,but do get stocked yearly.i'm thinking around 100 or so per acre if memory serves me right.


----------



## onthewater

Seems as though the eye fishing in the lakes and tailwaters around here (Alum, Hoover, O'shay and Delaware) is not near as good currently in any of the lakes compared to a few years ago. I know they stock O'shay and Delaware at reduced numbers compared to past years and that they still stock Hoover and Alum at high rates but the fishing has been off in all of them the last couple of years. We still can have the occaisional decent day but it's not like those years where you caught numbers of fish almost every time you went. I do have high hopes for Alum this year based on the number of small eyes I caught in there last year but this years early spring deep water jig bite was way off compared to past years.
Or am I quilty of remembering the good days and forgetting the bad days?


----------



## misfit

> Or am I quilty of remembering the good days and forgetting the bad days?


not at all.saugeye survival depends on key factors,and those can change from year to year.among them are plankton abundance at time of stocking,shad hatch following,predation and possibly weather conditions.
hoover for eample just had a couple recent years of poor survival,resulting in low numbers of those year class in subsequent years.not to worry........yhe good days wil return 

but so will the bad at some point


----------



## Net

pizza said:


> my bad, I didn't think that Griggs or Oshay had been stocked with saugeyes in like 5+ years.


Here you go pizza. 
http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=83130
Thought for sure misfit would remember that thread . Then I realized it was originally posted long before his last nap  .


----------



## misfit

actually i did remember that being posted,but was ready for another nap,and forgot about it when i woke up 
maybe i should add it to my favorites list.i might possibly maybe almost remember next time it comes up


----------



## Whaler

Saugeye will back cross with Walleyes and produce other Saugeye. Got this from Phil Hillman District three Fish Management Supervisor for the ODNR.


----------



## misfit

> Saugeye will back cross with Walleyes and produce other Saugeye. Got this from Phil Hillman District three Fish Management Supervisor for the ODNR.


that is a known fact and is not being disputed here.
the only thing questioned was how the small fish got there.that was answered by the fact that they were stocked saugeyes,and the likelyhood of natural reproduction was highly unlikely.......which it is 

besides,there are no walleyes there to breed with,and that is not the only way they could reproduce


----------



## Pigsticker

Those small saugeyes that you've been catching could very well actually be sauger instead. Sauger are native to the Scioto and many other rivers and streams I believe.


----------



## pizza

I see that 85,000 fingerlings were stocked at Griggs and 19,000 at O'Shay on 5/24/07. Thanks for posting that. I caught two more today, both about 11". Wonder if they were last years fingerlings? I also caught a 14" eye in the Olentangy in Worthington last week. Only my second eye from the tangy.


----------



## SConner

I have caught quite a few little ones I assume were saugeye on GMR in Troy area and always wondered about how they got there. Is it possible they are washing 60 miles downstream from Indian Lake in first year after being stocked?


----------



## pizza

SConner said:


> I have caught quite a few little ones I assume were saugeye on GMR in Troy area and always wondered about how they got there. Is it possible they are washing 60 miles downstream from Indian Lake in first year after being stocked?



That is probably the case. 60 miles over 365 days averages out to about 1/6 mile per day.


----------



## riverKing

i recently found out that saugeye are 100% fertile. they can backcross or have viable young themselves.(the resource was excellent otherwise i would not have believed him) he also said that you should not worry about the genetic stock of walleye or sauger because saugeye even though they are fertile, lack the gene that imprints on spawning grounds, also they are stocked so there is nothing to imprint. i had always heard that they had about a 15% fertility rate so this is news! furthermore, before someone flips that they are stocking fertile hybrids, saugeye naturaly occur in places where both sauger and walleye coexist. the world record was a naturaly spawned fish, and studies done on the illinios river show that saugeye make 4.1% of the natural population. anyway you are right they can spawn


----------



## seethe303

100&#37; fertile? really? does this mean there is natural reproduction going on in IL, buckeye, alum, hoover, etc? 

could you please explain what you mean by "lacking the gene that imprints on spawning grounds" ?


----------



## supercanoe

This comes up over and over, people always want to believe that saugeye are reproducing. Under perfect conditions reproduction could occur in a small percent of the population. And I could win the lottery.


----------



## seethe303

supercanoe said:


> This comes up over and over, people always want to believe that saugeye are reproducing. Under perfect conditions reproduction could occur in a small percent of the population. And I could win the lottery.












life will find a way  

seriously though, I am still curious about the comment that saugeye are 100% fertile. as well as this comment, "lacking the gene that imprints on spawning grounds" 

???


----------



## GMR_Guy

http://www.walleyesinc.com/walleyeinc2/corey20021.html


----------



## GMR_Guy

This subject has been discussed on this forum before. The following thread contains an informative response from the ODNR.

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=36827

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the high numbers of saugeye in the GMR cannot be explained by fish left over from old stockings or by saugeyes escaping from Indian Lake. I could be wrong, but I think they will someday conclude that the GMR contains a significant population of reproducing saugeye.


----------



## seethe303

I realize similar topics have been discussed before, however the link you posted doesn't address the idea of 100&#37; fertile saugeye, which is something that riverKing claimed. I am not trying to beat a dead horse here, I am genuinely interested. 

Also, I would really like to know what "lacking the gene that imprints on spawning grounds" specifically means? as far as I can tell with searches this has never been discussed before. 

thanks!


----------



## Columbusslim31

seethe303 said:


> life will find a way
> 
> seriously though, I am still curious about the comment that saugeye are 100&#37; fertile. as well as this comment, "lacking the gene that imprints on spawning grounds"
> 
> ???


Everytime I hear about how something in nature is not supposed to do this or that, my mind always goes back to that quote. Good point John.


----------



## riverKing

the imprinting is the reason the same population of eyes go up the maumee each year, and the same eyes go back to the reefs. like salmon going back to their ancestral rivers or even riffles, but eyes don't have as keen a sense(as far as i know), the may go back to the same trip each year. saugeye simply swim to a spot and try and spawn, it may have the right habitat, it may not, it may be in the middle of a spawning school of sauger, its just luck. the 100% fertility was explained to me by a retired dnr biologist who co-authored many of the reports on saugeye and the recent "proof" of an ohio river strain of walleye. as was said under perfect conditions and small portion may succesfully spawn, in the gmr i think all of the fish come out of the lakes, gmrguys idea of a portion being spawned in the river is entirely possible. the idea that life finds a way is exactly right, they have gotten green sunfish to hybridize with largemouth, why shouldnt saugeye be able to spawn.


----------



## Wiper Swiper

I'm not sure anyone doubted that hybrids can be fertile, and saying that they "lack a spawning gene" is just another way of saying they're kinda retarded in the ways of reproduction. Most hybrids are. The potential impact on native fishes from a saugeye x saugeye spawn are minimal (yet relevent to population densities). That's not the problem with the bio-engineering presently assaulting our lotic resources...all in the name of selling fishing licenses, and generating revenue.

Hybrids are much more successful in reproducing with either of their pure parents. Pure native walleye and sauger populations in the Ohio River drainage are slowly being crossbred into obscurity. It may not yet be evident in the main stem, but it is evident in the upper reaches of the tribs. Especially with respect to sauger. 

Saugeye are voracious feeders (see--hybrids), and top end predators. I'm sure there are plenty of ODW biologists who have calculated the carrying capacity of all our rivers and streams, and determined that we're simply turning soft rayed forage into gamefish. Other native top end predators like smallmouth, pike, sauger, and walleye aren't utilizing what's available. But, with time being the ultimate judge, how far downstream do we migrate until we realize our "experiment" is negatively impacting the biomass?

Unfortunately, the frankenstein's running the show are as nervous as I am. I would love to hear from a state biologist on the real reasons they stopped direct stockings into the GMR. I would further be fascinated to learn the official talking points on why saugeye aren't stocked North of the Ohio "continental divide" (Erie drainage). 

Oh...when talking saugeye in the upper GMR...don't forget that they're coming down Loramie Creek as well as from Indian at the HEADWATERS.

As always, kill the saugeye.

Peace.


----------



## Lewzer

I have visions of Jurassic Park going through my mind while reading this thread.




> I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the high numbers of saugeye in the *GMR* cannot be explained by fish left over from old stockings or by saugeyes escaping from Indian Lake. I could be wrong, but I think they will someday conclude that the *GMR* contains a significant population of reproducing saugeye.


----------



## Lewzer

Lewzer said:


> I have visions of Jurassic Park going through my mind while reading this thread.


 


That's what the Jeff Goldblum picture is referring to.....I know, I'm a little slow.


----------



## NorthSouthOhioFisherman

Wiper Swiper said:


> I would further be fascinated to learn the official talking points on why saugeye aren't stocked North of the Ohio "continental divide" (Erie drainage).


That's one thing I agree with you on


----------

