# 410 slug gun



## marlin78

What's your guys opinion on them . My niece ants to go deer hunting and would like to get one for her . But I am having trouble finding one . The 410 was my first gun and I love it but never had one that would shoot slugs . Thanks for any opinions .


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## Mad-Eye Moody

I am going to get crucified for this, but am going to say it anyways.

My OPINiON is that standard 410 slugs are not adequate for deer at any sort of range UNLESS the deer is hit very well.

Just check the ballistics out on the common slugs. They are very light and only have about 700 to 800 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle which is about what is recognized by experts to be the minimum energy required to kill a deer.

That being said there are some specialty 410 slugs being made that are somewhat more suitable. The biggest problem is the construction of the slug. It is light and soft. If there was a copper coated slug or copper solid that would be totally different.

If it were me I would go with a muzzleloader and a lighter charge and a quality bullet. Or a 20 gauge. They never feel the recoil when shooting at the deer. The adrenaline takes care of that.

Now I know there are guys out there that are going to say the 410 is a great deer gun and eh are sure to weigh in. But you asked.....


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## jonzun

I would also say a M/L for her. My son killed his first deer when he was 8 with 50 grains of 777, and a 240 gr. (T C Sabot). Video on youtube (Search: CVA Wolf Son's first deer)


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## Lundy

Mad-Eye Moody said:


> My OPINiON is that standard 410 slugs are not adequate for deer at any sort of range UNLESS the deer is hit very well......


Even though the State of Ohio permits them for hunting deer I agree that they are not suitable for the job.


I am taking my daughter-in-law deer hunting again this year. She is a little person. I purchased a 20 gauge H&R Ultra Slugster for her to use. It is a heavy gun but the weight reduces felt recoil. She killed her first deer two years ago with a Ultra Slugster 12 ga. It was a little much for her but she hung in there and made a great shot at 110 yds. Since she decided to hunt again I got something more her size without sacrificing much performance.

I don't think you want the person you are taking first deer hunting experience to be of a wounded and not recovered deer.


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## ducky152000

I feel if a youth is too young to handle a 20 ga he/she is too young to hunt. There is so many youths out there that start small game hunting with a 410 and miss everytime the shoot. A 410 is a shotgun for experienced shotguners. There just not much of a pattern with a 410 so you must be able to lead very well. As for slugs. I feel it is a bit light for deer. Many deer are wounded from 410s. I agree with others muzzle loader with around 80 grains is a much better option.


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## Rod-Man

I talked to the folks at Vance's Outdoor in Columbus last Friday after stumbling upon what I had believed was a misprint. They have an exclusive two year deal with mossberg selling a 500 youth combo that comes with a vr field barrel and wait for it............A DEER BARREL. It was on the front page of their ad looking me right in the face and I couldnt believe it. You can't buy just the barrel. Mossberg wont sell it to you either. But its available in the combo which is on sale for 349.99. A little steap for a 500 but you won't find it anywhere else. Sure slugs can be fired from a battery of other guns that are not designed to do so. Mod or bigger shot barrels. A ton of different break actions, rossi's, h&r's, new englands, etc. Call their manufacturers and everyone will tell you its not designed to fire a slug and they wouldn't recommend it. I could never justify taking that chance with my child.

Grab that gun. Pick up a few boxes of winchester super x slugs that move at 1860 fps. (260fps faster than my12 ga. Super x's) and invite any liberal who thinks its insufficient to wait 40 yards down range. Lol. It like any gun will clearly have an application. You wouldn't probably use it for 150 yard shots in the open, but if you hunt woods those shots rarely present themselves. 

My son's 9. Last year a 20 ga. Almost put him on his butt. Hes small framed. Its just too much gun. The m/l may not be a bad idea either, but the. 410 comes sized for a child and should not be shunned.

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## Rod-Man

This deer didnt feel the round was too light. 

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## bkr43050

Rod-Man said:


> This deer didnt feel the round was too light.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I can't really say that a 10 yard shot is a testimony to the knockdown power of a gun. I personally would not feel confident with a .410 and I can not see the reason that anyone would intentionally pigeonhole himself/herself into a gun that was that limited. If you already have the gun and no option for using another gun then I can understand someone using a .410. But I just don't see why anyone would go out and buy one for the purpose of deer hunting when you could buy a gun that would do the job better at no more in price. You can buy entry level muzzleloaders for a great price and that would serve the purpose for low load youth hunting all the way up to full loads. Also, as mentioned the 20 gage option is a good price as well with the Mossbergs. If someone can not shoot a gun that would reach beyond 40-50 yards then why not have that person use a crossbow? I am not saying the range is 40-50 with a crossbow but it is pretty decent out to 30 or more.


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## fish4wall

lets talk shot placement... i think .410 gets a bad wrap because it's not a powerful gun... a few years back i took my oldest son out for his first turkey hunt. i did a lot of reading on line and theres some states that wont let you hunt turkey with a .410 because of "no knock down power" well let me tell ya...there is!!! he shot a 25lb bird at 50 yards!!!! yes 50!!! and dropped it in its tracks!! so shot placement is key!!


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## Lundy

Rod-Man said:


> Grab that gun. Pick up a few boxes of winchester super x slugs that move at 1860 fps. (260fps faster than my12 ga. Super x's) and invite any liberal who thinks its insufficient to wait 40 yards down range. Lol. It like any gun will clearly have an application. You wouldn't probably use it for 150 yard shots in the open, but if you hunt woods those shots rarely present themselves.
> 
> My son's 9. Last year a 20 ga. Almost put him on his butt. Hes small framed. Its just too much gun. The m/l may not be a bad idea either, but the. 410 comes sized for a child and should not be shunned.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


You will be hard pressed to find many, if anyone, that will agree with your statements. The ACTUAL facts, the ballistic performance just do not and can not match with your statements. Especially when you start talking about 150 yd shots and it having more muzzle velocity than you 12 ga.

Winchester Super-X 3" .410 ga
Distance(yds).......Velocity(fps)......Energy(ft.lbs.) 
Muzzle................. 1800................. 788 
50........................1288..................403
100........................998..................234

Winchester Super-X 2-3/4" 20 ga.
Distance(yds).......Velocity(fps)......Energy(ft.lbs.) 
Muzzle................. 1600................. 1865 
50........................1160..................981
100........................952..................575


Not even close with a comparison of the best .410 slug going to one of the bottom end performing 20 ga slugs.


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## bkr43050

No doubt shot placement is key, but it is key with all weapons. Give me a well placed 20 gage shot or muzzleloader shot over a .410 any day.


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## Fish-N-Fool

I hunted my first 2 years of shotgun at age 11 and 12 with a .410 slug gun. It would pass the "paper plate" test out to 50 yards consistently. I was told that was my maximum range and my dad marked 50 yards in 3 spots around our field of view with orange tape. I never fired a shot at a deer wth it. However, both my oldest brother and my youngest brother both shot a deer with the same gun in their youth. Both were shots within 30 yards with one being point blank; both resulted in a quick dead deer.

I agree that a properly loaded muzzleloader is a much better option, but nobody in my family hunted blackpowder 25 years ago. The ML would do as these guys have said...light recoil with good power and excellent accuracy. IMO this is the best option.

And while I know enuough about gun ballistics I also know not to argue with Lundy's accessment.LOL IMO if all you have for the kid is a .410 it is ok to hunt deer - I'm not of the opinion it is unsuitable. IMO it is limited and shots should be held to close range; 50 yards maximum and hopefully closer. But, I would never advocate buying a .410 today with all the options like a ML with a light load, a weighted .20 gauge, or if you have the cash a air recoil reduced gun - almost no kick at all there.


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## Rod-Man

We are straying from the point. Sure a 20 ga. Works great. Heck a 10 ga. Slugs probably even better. Marlins situation revolves around his nieces ability to fire though.
And I apologize that what I have written hasn't made it from your eyes to your brain bkr/lundy. I've stated that each gun has an application and the 410 is not a 150 yard gun. I'd also like to reiterate that if you hunt in the woods in Ohio very very very few times are you going to see a shot over 50 yards. (I get the hunting the edge of a field scenario. Please refer to the each gun has its application clause.) Also the idea that children shouldn't be in the woods until they can shoot a 20 gauge is maybe the most foolish thing I've ever heard. 

Lundy. Do yourself a favor. Look up the ballistics of all of the straight wall handgun cartridges one can use to hunt deer in Ohio. Jump right ahead to the big boys like the 44 Magnums. They pale in comparison to the ballistics of the Winchester 410 slug inside 50 yards. There no sense in perpetuating foolish blog fodder.

Marlin dont fear the 410.

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## bkr43050

I will leave the ballistics analysis to Lundy because like Fish-N-Fool said, I know better.

As was mentioned earlier, the .410 is a legal gun in Ohio and anyone can feel free to use it without me criticizing them. But I just feel that to suggest to someone that the best option when seeking a youth model gun is to seek a .410 seems misguided when there are several other options with better energy and performance results.

I am sure several people can jump in and say that they shot deer with a 410 and killed them just fine but I would suspect that there are plenty of guys who didn't fare so well either. I just can't see why someone would want to choose a gun that is marginally adequate when they have the chance to avoid it.


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## Lundy

Rod-Man said:


> Lundy. Do yourself a favor. Look up the ballistics of all of the straight wall handgun cartridges one can use to hunt deer in Ohio. Jump right ahead to the big boys like the 44 Magnums. They pale in comparison to the ballistics of the Winchester 410 slug inside 50 yards. There no sense in perpetuating foolish blog fodder.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


OK, if you say so.

Hornady XTP .44 Rem Mag, 7.5" barrel

180 gr.
Distance..........Velocity(FPS)...........Energy(ft lbs)
muzzle..............1550.....................960
50 yds...............1340.....................717
100yds..............1173.....................550

200 gr.
Distance..........Velocity(FPS)...........Energy(ft lbs)
muzzle..............1500.....................999
50 yds...............1333.....................789
100yds..............1196.....................635

240 gr.
Distance..........Velocity(FPS)...........Energy(ft lbs)
muzzle..............1350.....................971
50 yds...............1231.....................807
100yds..............1134....................685



I think that maybe you are mistaken, not really even a fair fight in retained energy.

Will a .410 kill a deer? sure it will. Is it the least capable legal weapon to do so in Ohio, absolutely no doubt about it.

If you are starting out a young child and have no option but a .410 keep the shots under 40 yds, stay off of the shoulder and make sure your kids can hit exactly where they need to hit to minimize the chances of a lost animal. Not the easiest thing to do with an excited kid shooting a deer. 

If you have the option to increase the killing capability of the weapon you choose that will provide some room for error if a poor shot is made please do so. The kid will thank you when you actually recover the deer.

Good luck


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## Fish-N-Fool

Excellent information Kim and good job keeping everything educational!

The discrepancy in energy surprises a bit; I honestly didn't think it would be such a large drop. I knew it would be less, but this is very good to know.


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## wis2ohio

My son shot his first deer last year with a T/C Omega 50 cal he did great with it hes not a real big boy either and he had 90 grains of 777 in 75 yards shot killed her dead this year we got him a 20 ga remington 870 youth combo for 480 out the door this will serve my other kids in my house as they get older so it will be well used. I say if a 410 is what she can handle then get that and have her practice with it alot or go with a nice 20 ga and she will be set for along time.


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## Lundy

Fish-N-Fool said:


> The discrepancy in energy surprises a bit; I honestly didn't think it would be such a large drop. I knew it would be less, but this is very good to know.


The large energy difference is because the .410 is only shooting a 1/4 oz slug. You have 437.5 gr per once so the .410 slug only weighs 109.25 gr.

Energy is a ratio of weight x velocity. A slower slug (44 Mag, 20 ga. etc,) that is heavier will generate and retain more energy.

Would you rather be hit by a tennis ball at 100 MPH or a baseball at 80 MPH


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## Rod-Man

Lundy said:


> OK, if you say so.
> 
> Hornady XTP .44 Rem Mag, 7.5" barrel
> 
> 180 gr.
> Distance..........Velocity(FPS)...........Energy(ft lbs)
> muzzle..............1550.....................960
> 50 yds...............1340.....................717
> 100yds..............1173.....................550
> 
> 200 gr.
> Distance..........Velocity(FPS)...........Energy(ft lbs)
> muzzle..............1500.....................999
> 50 yds...............1333.....................789
> 100yds..............1196.....................635
> 
> 240 gr.
> Distance..........Velocity(FPS)...........Energy(ft lbs)
> muzzle..............1350.....................971
> 50 yds...............1231.....................807
> 100yds..............1134....................685
> 
> 
> 
> I think that maybe you are mistaken, not really even a fair fight in retained energy.
> 
> Will a .410 kill a deer? sure it will. Is it the least capable legal weapon to do so in Ohio, absolutely no doubt about it.
> 
> If you are starting out a young child and have no option but a .410 keep the shots under 40 yds, stay off of the shoulder and make sure your kids can hit exactly where they need to hit to minimize the chances of a lost animal. Not the easiest thing to do with an excited kid shooting a deer.
> 
> If you have the option to increase the killing capability of the weapon you choose that will provide some room for error if a poor shot is made please do so. The kid will thank you when you actually recover the deer.
> 
> Good luck


Couple of things.

According to ballistics a. 410 is not the least capable way to kill a deer in Ohio. It would have to be a bow. Again, according to ballistics Some how ppl do it all season long with these 300 fps weapons. Because they understand their application. 

Secondly. The hornady is a turbo charged round. I suppose you could juice up a. 410 slug it you felt necessary. Also, there are. 357 rounds with sub 1000 fps muzzle velocity. They'd still do the trick too. Because inside of 50 yards they all have the ability to pass clean through a deer. The last 4 deer Ive shot with my 12 ga all 30-60 yard shots past clean through the lungs. Im certain that a 410 would have done the trick every time. 

With a bit of luck this weekend Ill have a video of my 9 year old son taking a deer for reference. 

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## Lundy

Rod Man

You can not compare a broadhead with a bullet considering one kills through hemorrhage and one kills from shock and tissue damage. That is a apples to oranges comparison. It is just silly to compare the the two.

The Ohio minimum 45 lb pull bow with a broadhead is a much more lethal with a equally placed shot than a .410 could ever hope to obtain. Both are however way down on the scale of what I would ever consider having anyone use when trying to kill a deer. I have way too much respect for the deer to ever take a chance on not doing everything I can do as a hunter to ensure a quick humane kill. 

Good luck this weekend


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## Rod-Man

Agree to disagree I suppose. The deer I lung shot didnt ball up and die. They ran off layed down and expired. Thanks for the thought provoking conversation. 

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## Lundy

Good luck to your son I hope he gets a big one!


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## Rod-Man

Thank you. 

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## jonnythfisherteen2

Marlin78,
in my opinion, i would trust the person who has had the experience with killing a deer with a .410 bore, rather than paying any attention to the people to come up with the answer by looking at ballistics sheets and other things. actual proof is better than proof "on paper"


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## bkr43050

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> Marlin78,
> in my opinion, i would trust the person who has had the experience with killing a deer with a .410 bore, rather than paying any attention to the people to come up with the answer by looking at ballistics sheets and other things. actual proof is better than proof "on paper"


Ballistics data is not a result of someone's blind guess. It is precise data from real testing. I would personally put much more trust in that than someone who simply told me they killed a deer with a gun. If someone told me they killed several deer with a .22 would that imply to me that it was a viable option? The ballistics charts will show you the numbers that would indicate the true performance of the weapon.

I understand that a .22 is not a legal gun in Ohio. That caliber is used simply for illustration.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

bkr43050 said:


> Ballistics data is not a result of someone's blind guess. It is precise data from real testing. I would personally put much more trust in that than someone who simply told me they killed a deer with a gun. If someone told me they killed several deer with a .22 would that imply to me that it was a viable option? The ballistics charts will show you the numbers that would indicate the true performance of the weapon.
> 
> I understand that a .22 is not a legal gun in Ohio. That caliber is used simply for illustration.


testing on....?


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## PapawSmith

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> Marlin78,
> in my opinion, i would trust the person who has had the experience with killing a deer with a .410 bore, rather than paying any attention to the people to come up with the answer by looking at ballistics sheets and other things. actual proof is better than proof "on paper"


Yeah, nothing I hate worse than that pesky scientific research crap. 
My boy actually hunted a few years with a .410 but never got an opportunity. He sat always with me and I would have never let him attempt a shot at any animal over 50 yds., even though he could shoot with anyone with a shotgun to 100 yds. Big difference at that distance between paper and flesh/bone. 
I always did feel however that an ambitious gunsmith could probably put together a pretty effective .410 deer gun if you could get a rifled barrel, build it on a custom action and using custom loads. Probably would need to push the legality envelope as it relates to allowable hunting loads to make it happen though. Good question for that crazy guy that always is pushing for the expansion of allowable firearm calibers in Ohio.


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## Lundy

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> Marlin78,
> in my opinion, i would trust the person who has had the experience with killing a deer with a .410 bore, rather than paying any attention to the people to come up with the answer by looking at ballistics sheets and other things. actual proof is better than proof "on paper"


 The last deer I killed was with an Excel spreadsheet at 90 yds, quartering away. I formatted his cells and highlighted his demise


Jonny, I read where this will be your first year deer hunting. Good luck to you.


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## sherman51

its just common sense that a 20 ga is better than a 410 and a 12 ga is better than a 20 ga. but none of that really matters here. the point being a 410 slug through the lungs or heart at less than 50 yrds will kill a deer dead. and dead is dead.

i shot a big buck one time with a 12 ga muzzleloader shotgun. i was shooting a 690 round ball with 90 grns of black powder. the deer went in a dead run for somewhere between 100 and 150 yrds. then he fell over dead. i opened him up and i had a double lung shot also cutting a half moon grove in the top of the heart. i believe if you made the same hit with a 410 slug the deer would have been just as dead. and wouldnt have went much farther than it did with the 690 lead ball.

in my opinion if a 410 is your best option for her then use a 410. it depends more on shot placement than what gun you use thats legal for hunting. i know i dont want to get a 410 slug through my lungs or heart. just make sure shes hitting her target. practice practice practice. have fun and enjoy your time together.

my oldest son shot his 1st deer at 11 yrds with a 45 cal ml. my youngest son shot his 1st deer at 40 yrds with a 50 cal ml. neither deer went more than 30 yrds.
sherman


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## Lundy

12 ga muzzle loading shotgun, 90 gr Black powder, .690 roundball (500 gr +or -) 1150-1200 FPS.

Muzzle energy - 1900 ft lbs
50 yds energy - 1400 ft lbs

.410 shotgun slug, 1/4 oz (109.24 gr) 3", 1800 FPS
Muzzle energy - 788 ft lbs
50 yds energy - 403 ft lbs

3.5 times more retained energy at 50 yds. 

I said earlier that a .410 can kill a deer no doubt about it. However what happens with the .410 if it hits a shoulder at any distance or a rib at 50 yds as compared to your .690roundball?

You can make all kinds of comparisons to other guns but how does it serve to somehow justify a .410 to use a comparison to a gun that is not even close.

I wish Ohio would make legal the PCR's so young kids could have a low recoil effective hunting gun


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## Mad-Eye Moody

I bet the user that posed the initial question got a lot more than they bargained for!

Good luck to your youth this weekend. Whatever you end up setting up for them, I hope they get a biggun!


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## sherman51

Lundy said:


> 12 ga muzzle loading shotgun, 90 gr Black powder, .690 roundball (500 gr +or -) 1150-1200 FPS.
> 
> Muzzle energy - 1900 ft lbs
> 50 yds energy - 1400 ft lbs
> 
> .410 shotgun slug, 1/4 oz (109.24 gr) 3", 1800 FPS
> Muzzle energy - 788 ft lbs
> 50 yds energy - 403 ft lbs
> 
> 3.5 times more retained energy at 50 yds.
> 
> I said earlier that a .410 can kill a deer no doubt about it. However what happens with the .410 if it hits a shoulder at any distance or a rib at 50 yds as compared to your .690roundball?
> 
> You can make all kinds of comparisons to other guns but how does it serve to somehow justify a .410 to use a comparison to a gun that is not even close.
> 
> I wish Ohio would make legal the PCR's so young kids could have a low recoil effective hunting gun


lundy i 90% agree with everything you say. that was my point with the 690 round ball the deer was still able to run 100 to 150 yrds at a full run. and i had a perfect hit. how far is the deer going to be able to run with a 410. so the 410 would be my last option. i thought i had missed the deer. but got out of my stand and followed it down in the swamp and heavy brush. and found the deer just out of sight from my stand.

im just saying if the 410 is her only option it would be better than not hunting. i do believe in most cases under 50 yrds a 410 will take a deer. and i would say that 75% of my shots are under 50 yrds.

and yes like you i would love to see them open up pcr,s in ohio like they have here in indiana. maby once they see indiana doesnt kill all the neighbors ohio will get the message. but everybody wont have the money to just run out and buy one of these rifles.

and yes there are better options. if they have the money to spend on a new gun then a youth 20 ga would be a better option. then if its still to big he can always cut the stock off a few inches. i had a 16 ga rem 1100. an old gun, but i wanted my youngest son to be able to hunt with it. i cut about 4 inches off the butt and got one of the slip on shoulder pads thats about 1 in thick. this worked good for him. it was small enough and the thick pad took care of the recoil. the op could do something like i did.

if the youth 20 is just to heavy for her then i say use the 410 if she can handle it and hit her target. i think a good shot with a 410 is still better than a bad shot with the 20 ga.

in the end it all boils down to what you think is the best thing for her. all we can do is give you our opinions and maby a suggestion here and there. but please let us know what you decide to do. and be sure to let us know about her hunt.
sherman


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## ducky152000

Rod-Man said:


> We are straying from the point. Sure a 20 ga. Works great. Heck a 10 ga. Slugs probably even better. Marlins situation revolves around his nieces ability to fire though.
> And I apologize that what I have written hasn't made it from your eyes to your brain bkr/lundy. I've stated that each gun has an application and the 410 is not a 150 yard gun. I'd also like to reiterate that if you hunt in the woods in Ohio very very very few times are you going to see a shot over 50 yards. (I get the hunting the edge of a field scenario. Please refer to the each gun has its application clause.) Also the idea that children shouldn't be in the woods until they can shoot a 20 gauge is maybe the most foolish thing I've ever heard.
> 
> Lundy. Do yourself a favor. Look up the ballistics of all of the straight wall handgun cartridges one can use to hunt deer in Ohio. Jump right ahead to the big boys like the 44 Magnums. They pale in comparison to the ballistics of the Winchester 410 slug inside 50 yards. There no sense in perpetuating foolish blog fodder.
> 
> Marlin dont fear the 410.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


 I never said dont let kids in the woods. I feel if the kid is too small for a 20 ga or muzzloader then take them huntin with you. I am all for getting kids involved. To tell you the truth, I much rather have a youth use a crossbow than a 410. If the kid cant handle the kick dont take the chance in wounding a deer so easy. And for whoever said the state requirment of a long bow is 45 lbs is incorrect. It is 40. Just a FYI not trying to be a smart a$$.


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## marlin78

Hey guys thanks For all the responses. I was thinking of the 410 because it would be easy to manage. She Could carry a gun like that all day it has a light recoil and it's user-friendly. I like the ballistics on every thing it was very informative . Wether it will b a 410 or a 20 gauge is to be decided . Also since she is a first time hunter and there was a lot of talk about long range shots 50 yards and over , for a first time hunter that would be a long range shot in my opinion . I am very comfortable out past 100 with my 12 gauge but that's after years of hunting and shooting . I will b taking a first time hunter out for gun season he is 58 years old and I will b his "guide" per say . Since he is a first time hunter he will b limited to about 50-60 yards to ensure a clean kill . I have been shooting with him many times and he is a decent shot . But a live animal and first time jitters anything can happen . So with that said thanks for all the input it all helps .


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## eyecatchum2

If you look at any testing of 410 slugs you will see that most only penetrate 2-3 inches in a phone book, the only slug that has "good" penetration is the Brenneke because it is made of a harder lead. I would not want to hit a shoulder with a 410 because you would loose that deer.


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## Bassbme

Just getting in on the 45 lb bow being way down on the list of acceptable weapons to kill a deer. I've eaten a LOT of butterfly steaks from deer that were killed with a 45 lb. pull bow. 45 lb pull is more than acceptable for killing a deer. I shot tournament archery for years back before compound bows. Many many bow hunters used 45 lb. pull bows back then. There was actually a time that compound bows weren't legal to hunt with in Ohio and you had to use a (gasp) Recurve.....


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## ezbite

Bassbme said:


> Just getting in on the 45 lb bow being way down on the list of acceptable weapons to kill a deer. I've eaten a LOT of butterfly steaks from deer that were killed with a 45 lb. pull bow. 45 lb pull is more than acceptable for killing a deer. I shot tournament archery for years back before compound bows. Many many bow hunters used 45 lb. pull bows back then. There was actually a time that compound bows weren't legal to hunt with in Ohio and you had to use a (gasp) Recurve.....


im not sure of your point, but if i have a choice (and i do) ill shoot my 70 pound over a 45 any day. as far as a .410 shoot away....


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## fredg53

A 410 slug in a riffled barrel is like a rifle u kidding me 

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## Bassbme

ezbite said:


> im not sure of your point, but if i have a choice (and i do) ill shoot my 70 pound over a 45 any day. as far as a .410 shoot away....


My point is and was, that one of the other posters said that a 45 pound bow was way down on his list of acceptable deer killing weapons. I was disagreeing, and trying to make a reference that in the days before compound bows, quite a few hunters used bows with a draw weight of 45 lbs. Back then you had to actually hold the full draw weight of the bow ..... with your fingers. Releases, as well as compound bows were illegal to use. My guess is that your 70 pound draw weight bow is a compound, and that you use a release?

As I said in an earlier post .... I shot tournament archery for years.... that's not bragging..... that's just saying that I have a lot of experience with a bow. Many of the men that I shot with, and against, were bow hunters. None of them used a draw weight of 70 pounds. Actually most of them used draw weights of 45 to 50 pounds. The bow I killed my first deer with had a draw weight of 40 lbs. When compounds became legal to hunt with my dad got a compound and gave me his old bow which had a draw weight of 46 pounds. That particular bow had killed many deer before he gave it to me. 

My compound is set at 60 lbs, but I'm only holding 45 lbs at full draw. That's why compounds are so great. You get the added speed and range of the heavier draw weight, without the difficulty that comes with holding the higher draw weight. If anyone (not you in particular) has ever tried to hold a full 70 pound draw weight for more than a few seconds, they'll understand my point. It's not easy to do. A release would make it easier, but it's still not an easy thing to do. 

I wasn't looking for an argument, or trying to be a smart ass with my original post. I was just sharing my opinion and experiences. As far as my comment about a .410 for deer hunting. I still contend it is just as deadly as any bow, since it's effective range is exactly what the effective range of a compound bow is. 

As long as the person hunting with a .410 realizes they are hunting with a weapon with limitations, and takes their shot accordingly .... it's just as effective as any bow. Even a 70 pound draw weight compound.


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## Lundy

bassbme said:


> as long as the person hunting with a .410 realizes they are hunting with a weapon with limitations, and takes their shot accordingly .... It's just as effective as any bow. Even a 70 pound draw weight compound.


Oh my


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## Bassbme

Lundy said:


> Oh my


Exactly


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## sherman51

i would have no problem hunting with a 410 at close range. but then i never took over a 40 yrd shot with my bow. if a person knows there limitations then either one will kill a deer. if you put a 410 slug in the vitals its going to die. it may take it just alittle longer than with a 12 ga. but i would rather her hit her target with the 410 than to make a gut shot with something bigger.
sherman


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## lil goose

.243 works well with very little recoil. Oh that's right not legal in ohio. Take her to Pa. or Wva. They allow them. No seriously i undrstand your dilema i have a 9yr. old who begs me to take him i bought one of those savage 220 shotguns .20 gauge but it is still a little too much next year it should be better for him until then he is able to bow hunt with me. The .410 issue is a personal one will it kill a deer absolutly but things need to be right not a whole lot of wiggle room. Good luck. Goose


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