# Lithium batteries



## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Any positive feedback on lithium batteries? Just about every site is pretty vague about exactly what and how many are needed.


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## GPtimes2 (May 14, 2006)

I bought Ionic in december. One 125 amp starting battery that also feeds everything but the trolling motor. Three 50 amp for 36v trolling motor. And their 4 bank charger. Some led acid chargers will work. Ionic has a bluetooth app that will show you state of charge, discharge, faults, est. time left, etc... I was out once so far and pulled the starting battery down to 93% using livescope and fishfinder, and when I ran down the lake I could see my big motor putting 20 amps back in and charged it back up. And can also see my trolling motor batteries being discharged. This is a nice feature to have.
Lithium batteries use a built in BMS (battery management system) to control them. Make sure if you get one for a starting battery that the BMS is rated for that purpose.
For trolling motor you may find 12v, 24v, and 36v, single batteries, or you can run the 12v in series to get the voltage you need. Not all chargers will charge lithiums and If you run a single 24v, or 36v, then you will need a charger that will charge lithiums at 24v or 36v. The size will depend on you use and the how efficiant your motor is (to some extent). If you ussually run around with your foot on the peddled at 10% or 29%, off and on casting for 6 to 8 hours, you should get by with the 50amp size. If you fish current, wind, spot lock, with high use, for 10 or 12 hours, you will probably need 100 amp or bigger size. Think bigger for 12 volt system and smaller for 36 volts.
Lithiums have about 2500 cycle or so lifespan (so most will get MANY years service. They can be discharged to about nothing left and not hurt them. Lead acid will have a short life if dropped below 50% a lot and AGM bellow 80% a lot. And they will drop voltage as they discharge. Lithium's charge voltage and drop is different as they discharge. So you have much more useful capacity at a higher voltage. Thats why some people can get by with a smaller size.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Thanks. I'm at the point where I need a few batteries. I had two relatively new batteries until I dropped one. I have to justify the cost. I have a Minn kota 330pc charger that should handle the charging.


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## dgfidler (Sep 22, 2014)

I came very close to purchasing lithium’s this year. I have a ‘heavy corner’ in my boat with the kicker mounted right behind two group 24 batteries. My motivation would have been weight savings and to eliminate need the need to replace my batteries annually. I somehow destroy a pair of batteries every season and I think it stems from drawing them down below 50% when trolling with kicker and an autopilot. The kicker gives 6 amps at 1k rpm which isn’t enough. 

Here is what gave me hesitation:
1) would the lithium batteries with their low charging resistance hurt the kicker’s alternator? It’d always be in a low rpm scenario. I’ve heard that’s a concern. 

2) if I ever draw down to point main motor won’t start, I have three group 27 under my bow for a trolling motor. My backup plan is to simply jump start from one of those. Was not sure if that’d damage a depleted lithium ion battery

3) what will happen if the starting battery ever reaches full state of charge. I think the lithium batteries’ battery management system shuts off from accepting further charge. I think that’s the same as turning the battery switch to the off position while motor is running and that’s a definite no no as it damages the diodes in the alternator (from what I’ve read. I’m no expert, but was hesitant to spend $1500 on batteries that have potential to cause damage just to shed 40 lbs)

If anyone knows the answers to my concerns, I may do it next year. For this year, I just purchased a pair of dual purpose lead/acid marine batteries which will be on their last leg by November no doubt. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Like you, I have some of same concerns. I feel that when I talk to a vendor, I'm getting a sales pitch and telling me what I want to hear. I don't run a boat like yours, but it is a large investment. All the talk on other forums are about 36 volt systems and I never get an answer. I'm feeling very much like the Redheaded Stepchild,just because I don't have 60k rig! Some one accused me of being the same league and not knowing what I was even talking about. I replied that at least I don't have a Mortgage loan on 60k anchor! The thread has silent since. Not locked!


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## flyinghappy (Jun 26, 2017)

The are great, most of the big guys (in lithium anyways) like Ionic have figured out the BMS to not shut down when being charged by the big motor, not sure how well it would work with a kicker though. The nice thing is that a 50ah lithium is approximately equal to a 100ah lead acid since you can use them further into the discharge cycle. They also hold voltage low as well, so you don't need to turn the power up on your trolling motor throughout the day to keep the same speed.

Personally, I would run them in a heartbeat for my trolling motor. I'd probably run them on my 250 Pro XS since there have been a lot of guys running them in bass boats with that motor. But I would be hesitant on running them on a kicker, though outputting such small amperage if you have graphs running, and a livewell and other stuff, you are probably discharging faster than the kicker can charge, making the BMS shutdown less likely. Also probably wouldn't run them on a Verado with the power steering, if the BMS did go out, you'd lose power and steering which I wouldn't personally appreciate.

I would also probably stick to Ionic or Amped batteries if you want a starting battery just because they seem to be more boating minded over the others and have a better grasp on the profiles used by most fisherman/outboards.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

flyinghappy said:


> The are great, most of the big guys (in lithium anyways) like Ionic have figured out the BMS to not shut down when being charged by the big motor, not sure how well it would work with a kicker though. The nice thing is that a 50ah lithium is approximately equal to a 100ah lead acid since you can use them further into the discharge cycle. They also hold voltage low as well, so you don't need to turn the power up on your trolling motor throughout the day to keep the same speed.
> 
> Personally, I would run them in a heartbeat for my trolling motor. I'd probably run them on my 250 Pro XS since there have been a lot of guys running them in bass boats with that motor. But I would be hesitant on running them on a kicker, though outputting such small amperage if you have graphs running, and a livewell and other stuff, you are probably discharging faster than the kicker can charge, making the BMS shutdown less likely. Also probably wouldn't run them on a Verado with the power steering, if the BMS did go out, you'd lose power and steering which I wouldn't personally appreciate.
> 
> I would also probably stick to Ionic or Amped batteries just because they seem to be more boating minded over the others and have a better grasp on the profiles used by most fisherman.


I would also add Mtech lithium and Dakota


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## flyinghappy (Jun 26, 2017)

johnboy111711 said:


> I would also add Mtech lithium and Dakota


Maybe mtech, haven't heard much about them. But Dakota doesn't have a dedicated starting battery that I know of, so trolling motor sure, but not starting.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

Mtech does, I thought you were just referencing an overall dedication to angling, not starting batteries


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## flyinghappy (Jun 26, 2017)

johnboy111711 said:


> Mtech does, I thought you were just referencing an overall dedication to angling, not starting batteries


Sorry, should have made that distinction in the last paragraph, that was more aimed at starting batteries. As long as it's a LiFePo4 battery I don't think you can go too wrong with the main vendors for a trolling motor.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

I have been very happy with the Mtech starting batteries so far


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## flyinghappy (Jun 26, 2017)

johnboy111711 said:


> I have been very happy with the Mtech starting batteries so far


I'll have to keep them in mind when I decide to drop the money on them. I think I'd edge them out with the Ionic's though just because of the bluetooth BMS to monitor battery levels.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

when I chose Mtech, these were my deciding factors. they have a percentage reader on the battery, if I wanted the bluetooth I could purchase on for under 20 dollars on line ( my tourney partner has the blue tooth and has used it exactly twice in 2 years, both times the batteries were over 75%) and Mtech is an Ohio company who has been in the lithium business for longer than most companies. they started with batteries used in Amish communities and have expanded from there.


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## flyinghappy (Jun 26, 2017)

johnboy111711 said:


> when I chose Mtech, these were my deciding factors. they have a percentage reader on the battery, if I wanted the bluetooth I could purchase on for under 20 dollars on line ( my tourney partner has the blue tooth and has used it exactly twice in 2 years, both times the batteries were over 75%) and Mtech is an Ohio company who has been in the lithium business for longer than most companies. they started with batteries used in Amish communities and have expanded from there.


Wow, definitely need to research them more. Didn't know any of that history. Thanks for the information!


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)




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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)




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## firemanmike2127 (Mar 17, 2013)

Mercury has a bulletin they released that addresses lithium batteries. The use of lithium batteries is not recommended by Mercury Marine for a primary battery application. The integral BMS is mentioned in the bulletin as being one of the primary reasons that Mercury Marine doesn't want lithium batteries used for cranking battery applications. I saw the memo on the Lund Owner's F/B site within the last week. I've been trying to educate myself on lithium battery technology like others on here. When I get a chance I'll see if I can find a link to the bulletin. Mike


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

Merc just put out a notice that using these batteries will void the Factory warranty. saw the same as mike.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

yes, the bulletin has been out. been running the starting batteries on a merc and rude for the past year and half. knock on wood, no issues.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Mtech batteries are sold out. Harrison batteries has a lithium starting battery. Correct me if I am. From what I've heard most of the major components are made in China and assembled here in the United States. You can check with the companies to find this out. I hope I'm wrong though.


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## dgfidler (Sep 22, 2014)

Another brand that I don’t think was mentioned here is ReLion. I was looking at the RB60 for house battery and RB60-X for starting battery. The X version has higher cranking amps needed for starting. I was honing in on this brand because I needed group 24 to fit my battery boxes. The X version is higher priced. 


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## flyinghappy (Jun 26, 2017)

JamesF said:


> Mtech batteries are sold out. Harrison batteries has a lithium starting battery. Correct me if I am. From what I've heard most of the major components are made in China and assembled here in the United States. You can check with the companies to find this out. I hope I'm wrong though.


All of the lithium cells are made in China for any lithium battery. I don't think there are any companies in the US actually making any cells here.


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## dgfidler (Sep 22, 2014)

I just pulled the trigger on a Dakota 60ah dual purpose deep cycle/starting battery. This is the first lithium battery that I’ve seen to specifically state it’s safe for alternators. I’m going to use this for my ‘house battery’. I had previously been using a 60ah lead acid battery and my usage destroys a lead acid battery each season without fail. When I’m trolling on Lake Erie I run to my fishing spot on Battery #1 then switch to the house battery while trolling. I’m running a 15hp kicker that is supposed to contribute 6 amps and have the radio, sonar, marine radio, and an autopilot running. I’ll run back in on battery#2 to give it as much charge as possible. I always charge this house battery to 100% prior to each trip. By November this battery will be shot and my voltage sensitive autopilot will no longer function. I think this battery gets drawn down 50% each trip and doesn’t get recharged until next trip (I know I should recharge ASAP but rarely have time). If my understanding is correct, the lithium battery will not be harmed by being deeply discharged and not recharged until right before it’s next use. I also bought a charger that can supposedly fully charge this battery within 3 hours. We’ll see how this goes …


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## buck16on (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm not an expert on batteries. But here's my 40 plus years experience with them. For years, I used lead acid deep cycle 12 volt battery as a starter battery for an old 40 HP Johson and then also for a 60 HP Johnson from 1989 till 2016. The battery also ran my depth finder and my electric trolling motor. I used the deep cycle batteries because my gas motors could not keep my battery fully charged so I was always having to charge the battery when I got home. I always thought that all this recharging would be better accepted by the deep cycle battery. I would get a good 6 years from these batteries. In 2016 I sold all my boats and replaced them with a new 19 foot aluminum tiller boat with a 40HP 4 cycle motor, 24 volt terrova bow mount and three depth finders. The starter battery is a Cabela's AGM 30 class that starts the 40HP and runs all the depth finders. I have 2 12 volt Optima marine batteries running the 24 volt Terrova. This is now 2022, and the batteries are still working fine even though I recharge them after every trip ( 4 times a week mid March through September, I start bow hunting and quit fishing end of September). I normally fish 5 to six hours and I'm a caster not a troller. I added a Hummin bird 360 transducer when they first came out and a few times running the 360 in addition to the 3 sonar units has depleted the starting battery to almost dead. This season I'm adding the Mega Live transducer. I've been using it ice fishing this year with a Helix 9 chirp SI GPS GN3 on a Marcum 12 volt lithium 18 AMP battery. I've been getting at least 12 hours ( haven't tried to see how long I can go because I charge it after 2 trips). I plan to run the Mega Live on the Marcum battery in my boat also and may also run the 360 on it also since the helix 9 will be running on the starting battery. From what I've read, the lithium batteries can sustain more recharging than the deep cycle lead acid, and the deep cycle AGM, and the deep cycle Optima batteries. I'm considering buying another Marcum 18 Amp to run all my boats sonar units (hummin bird 797ci, 959 DI Gps, and Helix 9 Mega Chirp SI GPS gn3). I like the Marcum battery because it's so light and small and that's why it's perfect for ice fishing and since I have it why let it sit idle 6 months.


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## triton175 (Feb 21, 2006)

I’m still not ready to pull the trigger on lithium trolling battery/batteries. I have a 36 volt Terrova and use Duracell AGMs, group 31 and I’m going on 5 years with my current set. They are $170ea at Sams when on sale so about $500 or $100/year of use. A single 36 volt, 100ah lithium is $2400 or more than $200/year of use if it hits 11 years, which is the length of warranty. The cost would be even higher for three 12 volt lithiums.
Sure, there would be significant weight reduction. But not enough for me to pay double.
I‘ll wait until the price comes down


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

dgfidler said:


> I just pulled the trigger on a Dakota 60ah dual purpose deep cycle/starting battery. This is the first lithium battery that I’ve seen to specifically state it’s safe for alternators. I’m going to use this for my ‘house battery’. I had previously been using a 60ah lead acid battery and my usage destroys a lead acid battery each season without fail. When I’m trolling on Lake Erie I run to my fishing spot on Battery #1 then switch to the house battery while trolling. I’m running a 15hp kicker that is supposed to contribute 6 amps and have the radio, sonar, marine radio, and an autopilot running. I’ll run back in on battery#2 to give it as much charge as possible. I always charge this house battery to 100% prior to each trip. By November this battery will be shot and my voltage sensitive autopilot will no longer function. I think this battery gets drawn down 50% each trip and doesn’t get recharged until next trip (I know I should recharge ASAP but rarely have time). If my understanding is correct, the lithium battery will not be harmed by being deeply discharged and not recharged until right before it’s next use. I also bought a charger that can supposedly fully charge this battery within 3 hours. We’ll see how this goes …
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is correct.


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