# Fluoro leader weight for Fireline Crystal?



## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

Hi,

I want to start using a fluoro-leader this year, but I'm not sure what weight of fluoro I should use for my Fireline Crystal. My primary rods are spooled with 6lb crystal, but my other rods are spooled with 4, 8, and 10. 

Thanks,

Chris


----------



## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

Like has been discussed on here before the breaking strength of a fluro knot is around 75 percent of the line weight so go heavier. 8 or 10 is what I would try first for 6 lb test. The line diameter will be very different so you might have to tie a back to back uni knot with the braid being doubled beforehand. If that makes sense you just double the line and tie the knot like normal and it makes a bigger knot that will not slip through the other fluro leader knot.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Just curious....isnt the Crystal, SUPER LOW VIS???


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Intimidator said:


> Just curious....isnt the Crystal, SUPER LOW VIS???


If your fishing in white water


----------



## triton175 (Feb 21, 2006)

10 lb fluorocarbon should be fine. A back-to-back uni knot will hold the two lines together. No need to double up the braided line IMO. Be sure to get a decent fluorocarbon line, meaning anything except Berkley Vanish.


----------



## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

lordofthepunks said:


> If your fishing in white water


One might think that, but my BIL uses Fireline Crystal with no leader and catches fish like crazy. We can see what it looks like in air, but what does it look like in the water? More importantly, what does it look like to a fish looking up toward a "white" sky.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> If your fishing in white water


Right off the Bass Pros website....and I quote""!

"If the fish don't see it, they won't get spooked.....that is the accepted truth that spawned the first TRANSLUCENT Superline for NEAR INVISIBILITY underwater."
"Berkley's Fireline Crystal sets NEW STANDARDS for ultimate sensitivity, LOW VISIBILITY, and exceptional strength IN SITUATIONS THAT REQUIRE A STEALTHY PRESENTATION!"

You know...it didn't say a thing about needing white water!


----------



## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

Thanks!!!

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

When I look at it... I see white... White also happens to be one of the more visible colors in the water... Just me though


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Let's see ....... a white line is nearly invisible, but a clear line isn't .......


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Bassbme said:


> Let's see ....... a white line is nearly invisible, but a clear line isn't .......


I just post info that is provided by the manufacturer or "Pros" who are (I guess) suppose to know more than us normal "hacks" that do everything wrong but somehow catch fish!....I think that maybe both are translucent...or is it opaque!


----------



## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

An expert on bass eyesight would settle this...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## The Ghost (Jul 3, 2013)

I fish Fireline Crystal with a flouro leader on a number of my spinning rigs. I typically match my leader strength 1:1 with my main line. I have found that getting a good line/leader connection can be challenging and as Big Joshy stated, you typically sacrifice some line strength. However, having a large leader diameter relative to your main line also creates some problems. Even at a 1:1 strength ratio, your leader will be quite a bit thicker than your main line, and the wider that difference, the more stress is put on the line during the knot-tying process. Basically, the wider that difference, the sharper the bend you are putting on the leader as it curls around your main line. I double my main line with a loop-knot before tying, which effectively increases its diameter, and I feel has substantially improved my knot strength. So, my recommendation would be a 1:1 ratio connected to a doubled main line.

Regarding the transparency of Fireline Crystal, I would generally take what tackle manufactures say with a grain of salt. In my experience, Crystal is far from transparent underwater, although I suspect that fish have a hard time seeing it when it's overhead. I like Crystal because I find it durable and easy to see above the water, and I typically use a 10' flouro leader.


----------



## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

Out of curiosity, I called Berkley and posed my question to one of their product "experts." After describing the type of fishing I mostly do, he recommended 6 pound fluoro because the line diameter would be the same. He asked me if I wanted to purchase some Vanish, but I said "no thanks" and hung up. Then, I googled the question and found this recent article from In-Fisherman: http://www.in-fisherman.com/2013/06/12/finesse-news-networks-braided-line-and-leader-debate/ 

What I gleaned from the article is maybe consider a fluoro-leader if the water is crystal clear...


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

deazl666 said:


> out of curiosity, i called berkley and posed my question to one of their product "experts." after describing the type of fishing i mostly do, he recommended 6 pound fluoro because the line diameter would be the same. He asked me if i wanted to purchase some vanish, but i said "no thanks" and hung up. Then, i googled the question and found this recent article from in-fisherman: http://www.in-fisherman.com/2013/06/12/finesse-news-networks-braided-line-and-leader-debate/
> 
> what i gleaned from the article is maybe consider a fluoro-leader if the water is crystal clear...


thanks!


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Sorry but I don't consider some dude answering phones for Berkeley to be an expert... And if you read the labels on line, they all want you to believe that they are superior in every situation...

I will continue to look to people who's lives depend on that line between them and the fish... And not even so much what they say but what they do...


----------



## Northern1 (May 9, 2012)

lordofthepunks said:


> Sorry but I don't consider some dude answering phones for Berkeley to be an expert... And if you read the labels on line, they all want you to believe that they are superior in every situation...
> 
> I will continue to look to people who's lives depend on that line between them and the fish... And not even so much what they say but what they do...


You have seen them, so what do they do? Do they use leaders, or not? What about on braid?


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> Sorry but I don't consider some dude answering phones for Berkeley to be an expert... And if you read the labels on line, they all want you to believe that they are superior in every situation...
> 
> I will continue to look to people who's lives depend on that line between them and the fish... And not even so much what they say but what they do...


Listen, we all do certain things differently....whether it's right or wrong most will never agree, especially if what they are doing works. We just have to provide or gather info and base decisions on what's right for how we fish and what we're comfortable with.

Most Professional Fishermen's only source of income is sponsorships, some make money from tourneys, but most of their earnings are from The Fishing Industry....if they are not winning tourneys to keep sponsors, they must hock the Manufacturer's Goods, show people how to use them, be seen with them, talk about how great they are, etc, etc.....they are exactly like the Manufacturer's label, and would be one of the last people that I listen too....unless they were a personal trusted friend or family member and then I don't know....we all know about "fishermen's stories"!


----------



## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

lordofthepunks said:


> Sorry but I don't consider some dude answering phones for Berkeley to be an expert... And if you read the labels on line, they all want you to believe that they are superior in every situation...
> 
> I will continue to look to people who's lives depend on that line between them and the fish... And not even so much what they say but what they do...


I didn't get the sense the guy knew what he was talking about, which is why I put the word expert in quotes. What I took from the anglers surveyed in the article is that using a fluoro leader isn't an imperative, a lot of guys do fine without one, and that the knot can break, if it's not tied correctly. But, because I fish a particular shallow clear stream a great deal, I'm gonna give the leader a shot and see if I get more hits...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

I personally like 8 lb. Fireline with a 10 lb fluoro leader. The difference in diameter has never been an issue for me using a line to line uni knot. It's real easy to friction burn fluoro so make sure it's wet when you cinch it tight. And as others have said, stay away from Vanish and stick to a 100% fluorocarbon.


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Here's my thinking on this whole line visibility thing. I don't care how you slice it, or how many articles or manufacturers claims are quoted to the contrary ... If one line is less visible than another line in clear water, then that less visible line is going to be less visible in any other water color. Water color doesn't change the visibility of the line, it merely helps a more visible line be less noticeable. In all but extremely rare circumstances, a clear fishing line is going to be less visible than any other color line. 

As has been mentioned, the angle at which a color is viewed can help it blend into its surroundings. But if you change the viewing angle or the background color, the color that once blended in, now becomes quite visible.


----------



## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

My thinking on the whole visibility issue is that clear line such as mono reflects light and shines back making it visible. Fluoro reflects light differently and is (arguably) less visible. Lines such as Fireline absorb light but can also be seen due to the color. Out of the three types, I feel that flouro leaders give me the best odds of not being detected. 
But I am not a fish or a sales person, and they are the only ones who really seem to know for sure.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

I still can't fathom.... that a fish that is hungry, is going to bypass a 4" swimbait with a erratic, dying, action and vibration, and an enticing smell....because of a low vis, hair sized fiber, is attached to it!


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Intimidator said:


> I still can't fathom.... that a fish that is hungry, is going to bypass a 4" swimbait with a erratic, dying, action and vibration, and an enticing smell....because of a low vis, hair sized fiber, is attached to it!


Maybe... If it were actually a hair sized fiber...



Like I've said before... I am personal freinds with 5 guys who are either currently on the elite series or have fished the elites in the past, and these are guys that anyone who follows fishing would know, one of them is such a big timer, a kid asked me for an autograph just because I was with him...These are guys Ive roomed with, got drunk with, ate meals with, fished with etc...

I SEE what they do... I'm not watching a commercial... And what they do is adapt to the situation and do what's appropriate at the time...

Some use straight floro or finesse, some use braid with a leader, some do both depending on the conditions, weights and diameters vary... But one constant is that when finesse fishing with braid, they ALL use a leader...


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

And intimidator... Anyone can catch a hungry bass... What seperate a the men from the boys is makin them eat whenaybr they aren't so hungry


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> Maybe... If it were actually a hair sized fiber...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

All I know is during a tournament... Someone catches them every time.... And some do t catch a thing... These people are often consistently the same people...
At the same time, the people who didn't catch them, whether in a tournament or oterwise will always say "they just weren't biting". Well guess what, they are always biting somewhere for someone... 

So the fish are either constantly hungry, or they are constantly not feeding? I would say it's something more in the middle and the guys who consistently get 5 fish, everyday, are good enough to entice a bass to eat that might not otherwise choose to feed


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Just heard a Pro say last night on the show before Zona, that it can take over1000 casts in the alotted time, to catch the 5 fish he is going to weigh for his daily limit!

Just watched Major League Fishing from Alpena Mich....I like this setup because it shows true knowledge of fishing....SOME of these guys struggled mightily...THE MONEY MUST BE GOOD because this kind of fishing sure makes them look like "hacks", with ALOT of excuses, and most can't tell true size of a caught fish either!


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Intimidator said:


> Just heard a Pro say last night on the show before Zona, that it can take over1000 casts in the alotted time, to catch the 5 fish he is going to weigh for his daily limit!
> 
> Just watched Major League Fishing from Alpena Mich....I like this setup because it shows true knowledge of fishing....SOME of these guys struggled mightily...THE MONEY MUST BE GOOD because this kind of fishing sure makes them look like "hacks", with ALOT of excuses, and most can't tell true size of a caught fish either!


If they look like hacks, guys who have earned their way to where they are, can you imagine what a real hack would look like?


Fishing seems to be one of the only sports on earth where some guy sitting his couch can watch, and think "that doesn't look all that hard, I can rig up my zebco 33 and catch 2lbers all day long"

And there will never be anyway to dispute his beliefs because he's never gonna pony up an entry fee and get his ass handed to him for years on end until he sees what we already know.... It's not as easy as it looks


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> If they look like hacks, guys who have earned their way to where they are, can you imagine what a real hack would look like?
> 
> 
> Fishing seems to be one of the only sports on earth where some guy sitting his couch can watch, and think "that doesn't look all that hard, I can rig up my zebco 33 and catch 2lbers all day long"
> ...



I'm one that doesn't think you have to be a Pro to be a good fisherman....some Pros are just better businessmen and promoters.
I think fishing is exactly the one sport where you can get a small sponsor from a friend, put it on a shirt, stick a decal or 2 on your boat and truck, and call yourself a Pro....and you never have to win either!
Some armchair Pros may be Good Fishermen but are limited financially...they may be the only bread-winner, unemployed, etc...I'm sure there are more than a few that could do well if given a chance or if it was important to them.
I'm never shortsighted on tackle.... Some Very Good Fishermen have to use a Spincast type reels due to arthritis or other issues.


----------



## pppatrick (Apr 21, 2012)

they are going to eventually create a new section on OGF for you guys to banter about braid and line visibility.


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Intimidator said:


> I'm one that doesn't think you have to be a Pro to be a good fisherman....some Pros are just better businessmen and promoters.
> I think fishing is exactly the one sport where you can get a small sponsor from a friend, put it on a shirt, stick a decal or 2 on your boat and truck, and call yourself a Pro....and you never have to win either!
> Some armchair Pros may be Good Fishermen but are limited financially...they may be the only bread-winner, unemployed, etc...I'm sure there are more than a few that could do well if given a chance or if it was important to them.
> I'm never shortsighted on tackle.... Some Very Good Fishermen have to use a Spincast type reels due to arthritis or other issues.


Those guys who have a buddy's patch in their shirt are not the guys you are watching on major league fishing...

It takes serious skill to make it to that level, it wasn't an accident, or luck, or money that put them at that level... Acting as if any of those guys are hacks from the safety of your living room is absurdity...

As far as arthritis and spin cast goes... I don't see a coralation and I highly doubt I've went my entire life having never fished against someone with arthritis...


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> Those guys who have a buddy's patch in their shirt are not the guys you are watching on major league fishing...
> 
> It takes serious skill to make it to that level, it wasn't an accident, or luck, or money that put them at that level... Acting as if any of those guys are hacks from the safety of your living room is absurdity...
> 
> As far as arthritis and spin cast goes... I don't see a coralation and I highly doubt I've went my entire life having never fished against someone with arthritis...


I've fished with very good knowledgeable guys that have hard time opening/closing bails, or have lost sensitivity to stop a baitcaster, or the ability to make adjustments....heck, I'm there myself!


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Intimidator said:


> I'm one that doesn't think you have to be a Pro to be a good fisherman....some Pros are just better businessmen and promoters.
> I think fishing is exactly the one sport where you can get a small sponsor from a friend, put it on a shirt, stick a decal or 2 on your boat and truck, and call yourself a Pro....and you never have to win either!
> Some armchair Pros may be Good Fishermen but are limited financially...they may be the only bread-winner, unemployed, etc...I'm sure there are more than a few that could do well if given a chance or if it was important to them.
> I'm never shortsighted on tackle.... Some Very Good Fishermen have to use a Spincast type reels due to arthritis or other issues.


This is just ticking me off at this point? You really think you can just go throw a decal on a shirt and call yourself a pro? What's this guys credentials? Who and why would anyone believe them? It's not like he can just sign up for major league fishing... And guess what? In order for someone to want you to represent their product, you have to be able to offer something in return, like a reputation... How do you get a reputation for knowing what you are talking about? Catching VERIFIABLE fish when EVERYONE was paying attention...

There has never been a fisherman on the elite series that couldn't fish and was only there because they were good at business... You have to qualify and money doesn't buy you Pounds....

However there are plenty of guys, sitting on there couch, never having fished competively, who think they are just a sponsor away from going toe to teo with Gerald Swindle


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> This is just ticking me off at this point? You really think you can just go throw a decal on a shirt and call yourself a pro? What's this guys credentials? Who and why would anyone believe them? It's not like he can just sign up for major league fishing... And guess what? In order for someone to want you to represent their product, you have to be able to offer something in return, like a reputation... How do you get a reputation for knowing what you are talking about? Catching VERIFIABLE fish when EVERYONE was paying attention...
> 
> There has never been a fisherman on the elite series that couldn't fish and was only there because they were good at business... You have to qualify and money doesn't buy you Pounds....
> 
> However there are plenty of guys, sitting on there couch, never having fished competively, who think they are just a sponsor away from going toe to teo with Gerald Swindle


Dude, reality is that every summer weekend at lakes across the nation, you have probably thousands of fishermen with "shirts" on, stickers, and decals, and most of them would consider themselves Professionals....there are different definitions, but even most Professional fishermen are not "Fishing" Professionals but paid Spokesmen! 
There are many ways to earn compensation from sponsors because there are plenty of Pros that have not won an Elite or Qualifying tourney.
Money or Sponsorship can buy you the opportunity to get your pounds or prove yourself in advertising or getting on TV and talk....alot of talented guys just need a break....right!
Money buys Top of the line everything....tackle, electronics, boats, fees, etc...allows you to fish instead of worrying about being behind the 8 ball compared to others.
Other than The Elites of the Elite series that win alot, most have tourney winnings over their careers that wouldn't support most families...their money is from the business end!


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Your acting as if winning an elite series event isn't a big deal...the fact is those guys are fake, like a lot if guys online... 99.99999% of the fisherman in this world couldn't qualify for the elites if they had a billion dollars... 

You make it to the elite series, you have payed your dues.... Often times, sponsors and partnerships is essential to continued participation in the elite series but that money was earned with performance... It wasn't earned with just saying "hey, I can catch a fish, give me a 100 grand"...

If you are getting enough money to pay the bills and feed your family through endorsements, it's because you earned it, not because you already have money...

I'm done with this... I like you... I don't want to argue with you about this but you are talking out of your ass.... "Most guys this" and "most guys that" people that don't compete or can't compete for whatever reason cannot understand this...

It would be like me trying to tell people how easy it is to play in the nfl... How would I know? And why would my opinion even matter... 

I'm borderline... Not there, but close enough to know how difficult it is... If you haven't tried you wouldn't know


----------



## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

That monthly feature in Bassmaster that highlights an elite pro's day on a lake they haven't fished - can't remember what it's called - anyway, it illustrates, imo, how good these guys actually are. It kind of brings them down to earth with the rest of us...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> Your acting as if winning an elite series event isn't a big deal...the fact is those guys are fake, like a lot if guys online... 99.99999% of the fisherman in this world couldn't qualify for the elites if they had a billion dollars...
> 
> You make it to the elite series, you have payed your dues.... Often times, sponsors and partnerships is essential to continued participation in the elite series but that money was earned with performance... It wasn't earned with just saying "hey, I can catch a fish, give me a 100 grand"...
> 
> ...


The one thing to remember is that I never talk out of "that" area....any statement that I have made can be researched and substantiated.


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Really? So I can search your name and see your struggles becoming a pro angler? See where you've tried to make it to the bigs? See how well you've done or poorly against the top dogs? See how you stacked up in the local derbys around town? See the list of endorsements you've earned by having a bunch of money or by being consistently good?

Maybe we can find your marketing degree, or find the business experience you have in the tournament fishing industry... 


Reading about it and experiencing it are not one in the same...


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

This whole conversation reminds me of some dude riding around in a minivan that thinks NASCAR would be easy, he just needs the funding... Even though he has no clue what it's like to drive a car 200mph, no clue what it sounds like or feels like, no clue about any of the details you don't here about... But he drives a car everyday so it must be easy...


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

I think you need to go back and read what I posted and see your over-reaction.....again!
I'm done.....


----------

