# Chagrin Spread to Thin???



## brickman (Jun 2, 2008)

I live in Mayfield Village and have fished the Chag from Wilson Mills to the lost dam area as a regular for the last 10 years. It's been great, fishing so close to home with the steelhead hook ups numerous on most all occasions that floes were prime, on down trend ect. I'm a pin guy so I float sacs 90% of the time, about all I know best, this fall been running King fresh, King cured in 2 different cures and fresh steel eggs. Never know what they will want so it is good to have options available.

This year on my home river the Chagrin has been a true failure. Noda. I have only witnessed one fish caught, not by me, with numerous trips. Told my wife Saturday morning I don't even know where to go. The river has changed so much since the dam broke it's like learning the river again, but not really, still have the sems breaks ect. This past Saturday I fished from wilson milles South to the Gates Mills service department, I saw 0 caught and all the fisherman I spoke with were O'fer. Got in my truck and went to Todd Field walked North a ways noda, went south a long ways, tons of guys fishing, noda. No one I spoke with was offering a glimmer of hope, all nada.!!

Now all I can say is it's not just me forgetting how to fish. ( been doing excellent on an east unmentionalble waiting for my home river to calm). No one has had a good report, or a fish to report that I have spoken with on the river.

My Question ?/? Observation /?/ Since the dam failed and allowed the additional up stream migration, I think this has diluted the fishable waters in the Chagrin from LE to Chargin Falls? Same amount of fish just over 2x the area to spread out. I'm all ok with the covseversation aspect of the dam fail but I want to catch, or at least hook up. Possibly i've been spoiled but if I have to work my @ss off for nothin I'd rather tie harnesses for Walleye season during the winter than freeze my @zz off and not hook up.

On closing no speeches on our spring run fish. I know we stock a spring run strain but have caught PA muts, strays for ever in the fall. That being said our spring run fish start showing up early winter (now) every year. On closing ... the numbers are not there on the Chagrin, so few and far between it's almost weird while small unmentionable's with barriers are producing very good numbers.

Thoughts Please......


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## thephildo0916 (Mar 4, 2009)

I think we just had a less than good run this last rain. Talked to a few guys that only hooked up with a few this weekend in the mid section. I have had 2 VERY good days at some of the spots you have mentioned. I think the last run was just not that good. Chagrin has been good to me, and plenty of people I know. Just my 2 cents.


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## Steel Cranium (Aug 22, 2005)

Could be a combination of many things. First, it has been our wettest fall in over a decade. That spreads fish throughout the systems, with some higher than most normally fish. Take away a barrier, and the fish have more room to roam.

I also wonder about the overall numbers that return to the rivers. I haven't read anything about return numbers in recent years, but continue to see reports of more folks successfully targeting steelhead by trolling in the big lake during the summer. Some go in the cooler and others may not survive being fought on long lines in warmer water. More folks harvesting fish with improved methods during the summer and a steady (or slightly declining) number of fish being stocked has to result in lower numbers off the piers and in the rivers.

The fall shoreline (pier) bite hasn't been as productive in the last five or six years as it was in the 90s and first part of the 00's. Not as many fish or they just changed their habits?


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## CARL510ISLE (Jan 8, 2010)

Funny, after fishing pretty hard for fish yesterday, several thoughts came to mind as to seemingly lower numbers in many stretches of our local rivers. Some good points were brought up already.

Yes, this last rain didn't bring in a run that is typical for late November, but considering how much water we've had, perhaps migrations will just be more spread out rather than a prolonged low water period followed by a big rain event bringing hundreds of staging fish. Perhaps this is also why the lake front has not been typical. 

No doubt, fish are spread out big time and typically fish will use all the stream until winter or low water holes them up again. Personally, I enjoy having to fish ALL the river as it's the tweeners; the little cuts and marginal water that sometimes hold fish that sometimes are the difference between piecing a decent day together as opposed to just complaining about what seems to be subpar fishing.

Another thing to consider is the old supply/demand factor and here locally I truly think the demand (number of guys fishing - pressure) has finally caught up with the numbers of fish. Also, fisherman are better educated and utilize resources well, adding to educating fish and making them a little tougher to catch.

Obviously, anything that hinders migration tends to magnify how many fish are really around. Low water hinders migration just like a barrier, this year there have been little or no barriers and the fish have had the freedom and comfort to use the entire river systems.

If you're looking for the numbers of fish that were around in the past decade, good luck. Yes, we have been spoiled, and fishing tough conditions is typically what separates the hardcore guys from the casual guys. It's funny how when fishing is actually fishing and not consistent catching how many of us (myself included) search for reasons.

C510I


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## thephildo0916 (Mar 4, 2009)

CARL510ISLE said:


> Funny, after fishing pretty hard for fish
> 
> If you're looking for the numbers of fish that were around in the past decade, good luck. Yes, we have been spoiled, and fishing tough conditions is typically what separates the hardcore guys from the casual guys. It's funny how when fishing is actually fishing and not consistent catching how many of us (myself included) search for reasons.
> 
> C510I


+1 to this.


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## mjboone79 (May 13, 2011)

If rain makes the fish push farther up river, I wonder what fishing near Main Street in Chagrin Falls is like. I worked on a house that had the river in its backyard about 250 meters or so down stream from the falls. Too bad I'm not working there anymore.


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## ParmaBass (Apr 11, 2004)

Anyone know of anyone that's had any success above the Gates Mills Dam? A simple yes or no will do 

I've had one amazing day on the Chagrin this season and all the others have pretty much been a bust...


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## brickman (Jun 2, 2008)

I was really only talking of the numbers on the Chagrin. I have had very good days this fall with good numbers on unmentionables east. The numbers on these tribs have compared to my expectations from the past few years. Just looking for some opinions on the Chag. Thanks all for teh comments.

Parma ... never really gave much time to the area above the old dam.


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## Phineous (May 19, 2010)

Although I have no past experience on the Chagrin, I have been doing very well this fall. I have fished the Grand exclusively in the past, but due to the high water last spring and this fall I have been forced to try the Chagrin. This past Saturday was tough(I have no explanation as to why) but the last 3 weekends have been great. I am not fishing as far upstream as you, so I can't speak on that, but there have been a lot of fish in that river this fall. I know quite a few others who can attest to that as well. Maybe further upstream they are spread out, I am sure a few of the guys more familiar with the river have a better explanation of that.


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## therockgj (Feb 21, 2011)

Phineous said:


> Although I have no past experience on the Chagrin, I have been doing very well this fall. I have fished the Grand exclusively in the past, but due to the high water last spring and this fall I have been forced to try the Chagrin. This past Saturday was tough(I have no explanation as to why) but the last 3 weekends have been great. I am not fishing as far upstream as you, so I can't speak on that, but there have been a lot of fish in that river this fall. I know quite a few others who can attest to that as well. Maybe further upstream they are spread out, I am sure a few of the guys more familiar with the river have a better explanation of that.


Maybe the tough day was due to the 30 cars at the soccer fields at 6:30am?!?!? Killing me! lol


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

ParmaBass said:


> Anyone know of anyone that's had any success above the Gates Mills Dam? A simple yes or no will do
> 
> I've had one amazing day on the Chagrin this season and all the others have pretty much been a bust...


ummmm no.


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

therockgj said:


> Maybe the tough day was due to the 30 cars at the soccer fields at 6:30am?!?!? Killing me! lol


Ummm yeah 

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## CARL510ISLE (Jan 8, 2010)

Maybe all streams should have a major obstruction 10 miles from the lake to concentrate fish (and fishermen), I wonder what the complaints would be then? Probably something like, man we used to kill them there until all the private land got posted....and it's not difficult to figure out why. 

IMO, the numbers this year really don't seam all that different than the past couple years on all the tribs, you just have to fish a little harder when fish are spread out and flows are consistently higher. Compared to maybe 5 years ago #'s were way different....

Another thing many don't take into account is how many better educated fishermen there are out there today. When conditions are prime the old 90/10 rule is more like 90/25, and only during real hard fishing times does the 90/10 rule apply. Simply put, with more decent sticks on the water and the resource being a finite number, one's expectations must be realistic about catch rates. I can assure you, it's definitely not rocket science hooking a fresh run steelhead during prime conditions, and to think it is pretty naive. 

C510I


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

All good points thus far. Also worth considering is the fact that I myself saw three individuals practice C&R and AT LEAST 30 fish on stringers this past Saturday on the Chagrin. I am in no way insinuating anyone was above their legal limit but that is 30 plus fish taken out of the river in a single day, never to be caught again. 30 plus fish not in the river to be caught the next day or the next week. I am sure I did not see every fish that was roped up but if those kind of numbers, or anything like it are taken out on a consistent basis, in addition to the higher flows, etc., can it be any wonder why numbers seem down?? I am not trying to start a C&R vs catch and keep debate nor am I passing any judgement on those who operate within the law. The OP asked for thoughts and I am honoring his request.

One more thing. Please save the "this is a catch and kill pellet head fishery" stuff. Catch and kill = adult fish (usually trout) let go in a pond or stream that will not survive but a month or two. Our steelhead fishery is a stock and grow fishery, a fish that is not killed has a great chance of returning the next year or even more. BIG DIFFERENCE!!


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

reo said:


> All good points thus far. Also worth considering is the fact that I myself saw three individuals practice C&R and AT LEAST 30 fish on stringers this past Saturday on the Chagrin. I am in no way insinuating anyone was above their legal limit but that is 30 plus fish taken out of the river in a single day, never to be caught again. 30 plus fish not in the river to be caught the next day or the next week. I am sure I did not see every fish that was roped up but if those kind of numbers, or anything like it are taken out on a consistent basis, in addition to the higher flows, etc., can it be any wonder why numbers seem down?? I am not trying to start a C&R vs catch and keep debate nor am I passing any judgement on those who operate within the law. The OP asked for thoughts and I am honoring his request.
> 
> One more thing. Please save the "this is a catch and kill pellet head fishery" stuff. Catch and kill = adult fish (usually trout) let go in a pond or stream that will not survive but a month or two. Our steelhead fishery is a stock and grow fishery, a fish that is not killed has a great chance of returning the next year or even more. BIG DIFFERENCE!!


Plus a million on the last paragraph 

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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

I think if you are keeping more than 1 you are just being greedy

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## therockgj (Feb 21, 2011)

There are a certain group of guys that keep EVERY one they catch, no names or descriptions, but they damn near have a heart attack when you throw one back... To each his own, but man I can't understand keeping them and not letting them grow into Trophy size, it's not like they taste good! lol Walleye, if they're decent size they go in the box!

I've caught 28 this year and kept one for the eggs, my sister in law likes to cook one or two a year, so that's when I keep one for the eggs...

ANOTHER thing, a few weeks back there were some fish found on the bank with the eggs taken out and left there! Just when you think you're seen it all...


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## carvejunky (Oct 25, 2011)

I personally fish the Chagrin from September on thorough to April or so. I live in Mayfield Heights also. I have been doing so for the past 7 years. I never post on the boards, but Reo you got me to thinking. Seriously - dude. "I am not trying to start a C&R vs catch and keep debate" Yes you are and it is not conducive to this thread. Personally I don't care either way.

I looked at the Steelhead stocking from the Ohio DNR. Since 2006 they have stocked 561,846 steelhead in the Chagrin alone. In the Chagrin, Conneaut, Grand, Rocky, and Vermilion we are looking at 2,568,726 steelhead stocked. Now if 30 fish were taken out of the system every day of the year (365 days) it would take on average 47 years to clean out the rivers. That is not taking the previous years into account and assuming no other fish were stocked. If we were to look at the Chagrin alone with similar circumstances and assuming all the stocked fish would return it would be about 51 years.

My point is that the loss of the dam and the opening up of XX miles of river for the fish to hide probably has more to do with it than anything else. But, the fish up to this date have been mostly PA stray's right? That's just a bonus. Brickman, I have been doing about the same this year as the last 7, but I cover a lot of river. Maybe this year I have just been lucky enough to hit them as they are passing through.


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## thephildo0916 (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh you guys didn't hear? The steelhead stopped running already. It is one of those off years, see you guys in the spring


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## therockgj (Feb 21, 2011)

thephildo0916 said:


> Oh you guys didn't hear? The steelhead stopped running already. It is one of those off years, see you guys in the spring


Thank god, because it's starting to get cold out...


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

All those guys keeping all of those fish isn't very good for their health. We're only supposed to eat one per month from Lake Erie. It is however nice to have one once in a while. I think a fresh one is better than any walleye or even salmon, or even perch.

Back to the topic; I have never fished this river but I've talked to people who have. I've heard pretty good reports and some not so good ones. It's fishing! I'm sure that there are plenty of them in there.


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

carvejunky said:


> I personally fish the Chagrin from September on thorough to April or so. I live in Mayfield Heights also. I have been doing so for the past 7 years. I never post on the boards, but Reo you got me to thinking. Seriously - dude. "I am not trying to start a C&R vs catch and keep debate" Yes you are and it is not conducive to this thread. Personally I don't care either way.
> 
> I looked at the Steelhead stocking from the Ohio DNR. Since 2006 they have stocked 561,846 steelhead in the Chagrin alone. In the Chagrin, Conneaut, Grand, Rocky, and Vermilion we are looking at 2,568,726 steelhead stocked. Now if 30 fish were taken out of the system every day of the year (365 days) it would take on average 47 years to clean out the rivers. That is not taking the previous years into account and assuming no other fish were stocked. If we were to look at the Chagrin alone with similar circumstances and assuming all the stocked fish would return it would be about 51 years.
> 
> My point is that the loss of the dam and the opening up of XX miles of river for the fish to hide probably has more to do with it than anything else. But, the fish up to this date have been mostly PA stray's right? That's just a bonus. Brickman, I have been doing about the same this year as the last 7, but I cover a lot of river. Maybe this year I have just been lucky enough to hit them as they are passing through.


carvejunky, 

Welcome to OGF. 

To be clear, I have neen known to keep a fish or two per year. The neighbor likes to eat them and I keep the eggs. Agian, the OP asked for thoughts, my thoughts are that when the banks of the river are lined with people and most of them are keeping fish it will effect how many fish are in the river. I am not even saying that they should or should not keep fish, just that it may have an effect, ALONG with the other reasons mentioned.

Thanks 

reo


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## Steel Cranium (Aug 22, 2005)

carvejunky said:


> I looked at the Steelhead stocking from the Ohio DNR. Since 2006 they have stocked 561,846 steelhead in the Chagrin alone. In the Chagrin, Conneaut, Grand, Rocky, and Vermilion we are looking at 2,568,726 steelhead stocked. Now if 30 fish were taken out of the system every day of the year (365 days) it would take on average 47 years to clean out the rivers. That is not taking the previous years into account and assuming no other fish were stocked. If we were to look at the Chagrin alone with similar circumstances and assuming all the stocked fish would return it would be about 51 years.


Anglers keeping fish is probably one of the smallest issues a steelhead has to face during its life. First, you have to knock down the 2.5mil fish number down quite a bit. I don't know the most recent facts, but the initial Ohio river return rate as an adult from stocked smolts probably sits around 10%, if not lower. I recall that the old London strain and the salmon had return rates around 5% in the 1980s and 1990s. These fish have to survive the initial stocking, then the birds that feast on the newly stocked smolts, then the folks gut hooking them when fishing for other species in the late spring, then make it out to the big lake before the river gets too warm, only to have to avoid the lamprey and trolling fisherman during the summer, and finally make it back to some river or stream in Ohio. The 'making it back' part is probably a wash since we also see stockers from other states - probably as many as we lose. After repeating the river-to-lake-to-river dance for four years, the number of smolts to four or five year old adults is probably pretty low.

Like "Carl" stated earlier, better fisherman with better techniques / gear with a lot more fisherman around make the numbers game harder. Us old farts never realized how good we had it twenty years ago.


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

steel cranium said:


> anglers keeping fish is probably one of the smallest issues a steelhead has to face during its life. First, you have to knock down the 2.5mil fish number down quite a bit. I don't know the most recent facts, but the initial ohio river return rate as an adult from stocked smolts probably sits around 10%, if not lower. I recall that the old london strain and the salmon had return rates around 5% in the 1980s and 1990s. These fish have to survive the initial stocking, then the birds that feast on the newly stocked smolts, then the folks gut hooking them when fishing for other species in the late spring, then make it out to the big lake before the river gets too warm, only to have to avoid the lamprey and trolling fisherman during the summer, and finally make it back to some river or stream in ohio. The 'making it back' part is probably a wash since we also see stockers from other states - probably as many as we lose. After repeating the river-to-lake-to-river dance for four years, the number of smolts to four or five year old adults is probably pretty low.
> 
> Like "carl" stated earlier, better fisherman with better techniques / gear with a lot more fisherman around make the numbers game harder. Us old farts never realized how good we had it twenty years ago.


+++++ 1.......


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## BigDaddy300 (Nov 1, 2004)

Steel Cranium said:


> Anglers keeping fish is probably one of the smallest issues a steelhead has to face during its life. First, you have to knock down the 2.5mil fish number down quite a bit. I don't know the most recent facts, but the initial Ohio river return rate as an adult from stocked smolts probably sits around 10%, if not lower. I recall that the old London strain and the salmon had return rates around 5% in the 1980s and 1990s. These fish have to survive the initial stocking, then the birds that feast on the newly stocked smolts, then the folks gut hooking them when fishing for other species in the late spring, then make it out to the big lake before the river gets too warm, only to have to avoid the lamprey and trolling fisherman during the summer, and finally make it back to some river or stream in Ohio. The 'making it back' part is probably a wash since we also see stockers from other states - probably as many as we lose. After repeating the river-to-lake-to-river dance for four years, the number of smolts to four or five year old adults is probably pretty low.
> 
> Like "Carl" stated earlier, better fisherman with better techniques / gear with a lot more fisherman around make the numbers game harder. Us old farts never realized how good we had it twenty years ago.


Yep! I wish I knew back then what I know now about steelhead/steelhead fishing.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

I haven't fished the Chagrin this year, but did fish it last spring upstream of Gates Mills. I saw fish up there, but I never caught any. Only fished it twice though. The fish are definitely more spread out because of the dam, and the high water makes for a more continous run of fish. I really think you will see an increase in fish numbers on this river in the next few years because there is twice as much spawning habitat as before. Also, the upper Chagrin has better quality water because there is less development up there. There should be a better spawning success rate. I'm no biologist, but if one small branch of the Chagrin is clean enough to support brook trout, then it should be great for steelhead. 

Also, with the limit for steelhead set at only 2 per year, people really aren't taking very many fish even if they are good enough to catch 2 per trip. I'm still looking for my first limit!


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

bdawg said:


> I haven't fished the Chagrin this year, but did fish it last spring upstream of Gates Mills. I saw fish up there, but I never caught any. Only fished it twice though. The fish are definitely more spread out because of the dam, and the high water makes for a more continous run of fish. I really think you will see an increase in fish numbers on this river in the next few years because there is twice as much spawning habitat as before. Also, the upper Chagrin has better quality water because there is less development up there. There should be a better spawning success rate. I'm no biologist, but if one small branch of the Chagrin is clean enough to support brook trout, then it should be great for steelhead.
> 
> Also, with the limit for steelhead set at only 2 per year, people really aren't taking very many fish even if they are good enough to catch 2 per trip. I'm still looking for my first limit!


There's naturally reproducing brookies in the Chagrin?

I didn't think that there was really any natural reproduction in any Ohio tribs because the water is too warm.


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## brodg (Sep 6, 2010)

Lundfish said:


> There's naturally reproducing brookies in the Chagrin?
> 
> I didn't think that there was really any natural reproduction in any Ohio tribs because the water is too warm.


I've heard the same thing about the brookies on the Chag, also heard you're not allowed to target them because they are "protected" due to the rarity of natural reproduction in the area. Just heard it word of mouth, no cold hard facts.


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## therockgj (Feb 21, 2011)

I thought I read somewhere that the Steelead don't actually reproduce, just "go through the motions" ? 

Anybody know this?


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## Phineous (May 19, 2010)

I am fairly new to this Steelhead fishing, but I have learned quite a bit from some VERY credible people. While I understand that there are some vague predictions and studies on returns to the rivers, I would question the accuracy of them. It may be somewhat reasonable to either shock fish in lower water early in the fall, or do a survey of people fishing, but how on earth would someone be able to guess how many fish have run up the Grand River for example, from late October until now? The flow rate has been under 500 for maybe 4 or 5 of the 40 days. Now in those 4 or 5 days, if I hooked into maybe 30 fish, in the same 2 holes, not being as efficient as maybe an expert fisherman, how many fish do you think are in a span of river that is over 20 miles to the dam? Also, from what I understand, over half of the stocked fish probably aren't even in the river yet. I can't even comprehend how many fish are in these rivers. There have been some complaints from Ohio fisherman that we stock a strain of fish that run under the ice, and with the blowout in the spring many of them are uncatchable. I am fortunate enough to have access to "Cheap Creek", a private creek that runs into lake erie, which is probably 4 feet across at it's mouth. When I walk up that creek in the spring and see the amount of fish in there, it really blows my mind to think of the numbers we are dealing with. Along with stockings from Ohio, PA, and New York, I believe there is natural reproduction up in Canada on the north shore. I may be wrong, but I'm sure one of you veteran's can confirm or rebutt this. If a river is stocked with 500,000 fish over a 5 year period, 10 percent of that is 50,000. As if that isn't enough fish to catch, I would guess that the amount of steelhead that run into a stocked river between late September and early May is much, much more than 50,000. On top of these numbers, let's remember that almost every year, 90,000 plus new fish go back in each river. I can't imagine that people keeping fish is an issue at all, unless they are taking more than their limit. I am not trying to sound like an authority on the subject, in fact, I would love to hear some other, more experienced opinions on this.

Matt


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

therockgj said:


> I thought I read somewhere that the Steelead don't actually reproduce, just "go through the motions" ?
> 
> Anybody know this?


That's what they say. There may be some that run up some spring creeks that actually have a successful spawn. As for brookies, they need colder water altogether to even survive let alone spawn. That was my question for brookies spawning.

I however don't know the facts and it's very possible that no one knows the entire truth on the matter. I have seen rainbow fry that did occur naturally in Ohio though. If any made it to fingerling size is a good question.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

Lundfish said:


> That's what they say. There may be some that run up some spring creeks that actually have a successful spawn. As for brookies, they need colder water altogether to even survive let alone spawn. That was my question for brookies spawning.
> 
> I however don't know the facts and it's very possible that no one knows the entire truth on the matter. I have seen rainbow fry that did occur naturally in Ohio though. If any made it to fingerling size is a good question.



Google "brook trout in ohio" and you will find an ODNR article about the discovery of a native brook trout population in the chagrin watershed and their restocking efforts in which they restored breeding populations in 9 other streams. If brookies can reproduce in this watershed, then the more hardy steelhead can as well, especially in the smaller upper branches of the Chagrin.


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## BobcatJB (Mar 30, 2005)

Natural reproduction is occuring in several streams across steelhead alley, much more than people think!

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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

Most of the wild brookie streams in the Chagrin Watershed are way up in the watershed, upstream of Chagrin Falls, so I think they would be out of reach of steelhead to spawn in. But there are probably some other cold clean tribs downstream of Chagrin Falls that may be able to produce wild steel. I also find it interesting that in creeks in other states wild brook trout thrive, but the rainbows don't reproduce in well, but then there are places where bows just completely displace brookies. Rainbows must prefer a different stream bottom type to spawn in maybe? Water chemistry? 

Looking at the Rocky River fishing report on the Metropark's website there are pictures of wild rainbow trout found in the Rocky R watershed. I'm not sure if they're non-migratory bows or steelhead. There are definitely more wild steel in the Lake Erie tribs than people think, but way too small of an amount to support a fishery. 

Oh and technically it is legal to fish for wild brookies in OH as long as the stream isn't in a preserve or protected area where it would be illegal, but they should be left alone though and not fished for. Better off goin to PA, WV, MI, or somewhere..


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## steelie4u (Mar 18, 2009)

Fish are very well spread out in all streams and rivers with all the rain and water we have had, finding 30 fish in a hole just isnt going to happen with all the rain we had, in years past we prayed for rain and this year thats all it did spreading out the fish and making the anglers work and understand the behavior of steelhead under different conditions. (THIS IS THE KEY). Going to one hole and staying there a long time without fish just tells you to move, if you walk and put the time in you will be rewarded. I admit this year is different than others but the fish is the same and its behavior is dictated by nature. The smaller streams are as stated before are SMALL Streams and entice fish because they recede faster and are easier to navigate at their flow than the rivers for the fish until the rivers recede to a certain heght, ever notice that fish dont push those streams heavy when the rivers are prime to run? Its not cause there small its all from water flow and clarity.

Now as far as rivers with a obstruction and some without fishing better than others, obstuctions bottle neck fish and make it difficult for them to navigate as far upstream, trapping them in a certain area, as a open river where they can go as far as they want when they want. Heres a example of what knowing where these fish will hold under different conditions will do for your catch rate and the river doesnt have a obstruction for about 40 miles from the mouth:

We fished on the westside today and we hooked about a dozen, all were in VERY SLOW tailouts comming off riffles, this is typical winter mode for these fish, all were chrome and came on eggs. We saw fish moving but not in big numbers but they were there, with elevated water levels these fish can travel and will


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## Steel Cranium (Aug 22, 2005)

fishinnick said:


> Looking at the Rocky River fishing report on the Metropark's website there are pictures of wild rainbow trout found in the Rocky R watershed. I'm not sure if they're non-migratory bows or steelhead. There are definitely more wild steel in the Lake Erie tribs than people think, but way too small of an amount to support a fishery.


I know that trout are reproducing in the upper portions of the west branch rocky river, since I have netted some much smaller than anything that is stocked. The real question is if they make it thru their first summer with enough cool water and flow to get them through. I have caught a few bigger ones (6" to 8") in the rocky during the summer, but don't know if they came from far downstream or were reared up there.

I doubt that any trout survive on the east branch due to low flow and warm water during the summer. The west branch does have some areas that they live all year. Not enough to sustain a fishery, but a few to add to it.


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