# Extended Gun Season



## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

Saw a post on facebook tonight that they are considering extending gun season this year............any one else heard anything ?? Could be rumor i dont know ..........just thought i would ask !!


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

That would great. I could have another chance at getting a deer.


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## wis2ohio (Jan 20, 2012)

Haven't seen this but not saying it's not true. Would just continue my not seeing anything in the woods.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Ohh snap!!! Did we leave a few standing....


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## The Outdoor Connection (Jan 21, 2012)

is on with us tomorrow (Thursday 12/11) from 7 to 8pm ET. Deer totals were down 13%. C'mon bowhunters! Find out firsthand if any extended gun season is real with the man that makes the plan aka the Deer Commander, Tonk. Over-the-air on 980-AM or stream it > http://www.wone.com/onair/outdoor-connection-418/


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

Tonk the "Terminator" is not the man with the plan. He is merely a puppet.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I talked with him at the deer processor Tuesday evening of gun week. Talk about a guy with a no win job, someone is always going to be upset with him.

I do not like nor support an extension of gun season this year


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

there aren't enough in my woods, the state has thinned them plenty already in my opinion at least around where I hunt.....I am sure there are many other places that have deer 
I am fine with bow and muzzle loader left to maybe get lucky....I did enjoy finally using the 44 carbine to get my first deer the fist day using it in the woods....I know several days I didn't go out and get wet


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## tOSUSteve (May 30, 2007)

I certainly hope this is a rumor


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## Kenlow1 (Jul 14, 2012)

It's not gonna happen guys, most hunters have already used up their vacation days and even if it's on a weekend, you won't get hunters in woods this late in season as X- mas parties, Christmas shopping, etc. remember years ago when we had a 2 week gun season, was a flop- No hunters in woods. I don't think it would achieve the desired effect this late if it were to happen. Just my 2 cents.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Hope not. Think the numbers on the deer herd is down enough.

But, once again, if they plan on extending something, why not extend the already crazy short, 4 day m/l season?



> Orig posted by *The Outdoor Connection*:
> 
> Deer totals were down 13%. C'mon bowhunters!


Are we safe to assume you are referring to the 'total deer kill' percentage for this year as compared to last year at this time when you posted the 13% figure? Which was down last year at the same time compared to the year before.

FWIW, the two weeks prior to shotgun season, I spent a total of 6 days on stand in 3 different counties(Fairfield/Hocking/Pickway) seeing very few deer. The few that were seen, were not within range with the exception of a small button buck. 
Though I dearly love to bow hunt, with the ongoing trend of lack of deer being seen by many, if I'm going to sit on a stand freezing all day I'd rather have more of a chance with a long gun getting a deer within 100yds versus 40yds with a bow. Or better yet, a m/l with a 200yd range. 

Too, with Tonk being on the show again, will you please ask him on air a couple questions?...

1) What is the 'target goal' number that ODNR wants to reduce Ohio's total deer herd to?

2) What is the current deer herd number in Ohio and what percentage of that herd is in the metro/state/fed. parks where hunting is off limits or very limited?

3)Lastly, since ODNR works together with the insurance companies who tally their claims caused by auto's hitting deer, are the accidents that are caused around city parks(or areas with no hunting,I.E. within city limits) figured into the 'deer accident total' of the state and considered in ODNR's decision for the overall deer herd size?

The reason for these questions is I am very familiar with the number of accidents around Cols. that occur within 270. Also familiar with some of the massive deer herds in some of the parks as well as areas that are obviously no hunting areas due to being within city limits. Would assume other cities face the same situation. 
Am also aware of some of the rural parks that are off limits to hunting(or have a short weekend lottery hunt (Clear Creek Metro Park comes to mind) with large deer herds that have many accidents around them. 

If the deer population numbers in these 'no hunting' or 'city' areas ,along with the accident's caused by these deer that are reported by the ins. companies are thrown in and used to establish the overall state deer herd 'targeted' number ONDR wants to meet, then naturally the rural/farm areas legal to hunt in will have fewer and fewer deer due to the obvious fact that that's where the deer are going to be taken from to acquire the targeted number ODNR wants to obtain.

Thanks in advance.


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## The Outdoor Connection (Jan 21, 2012)

ask him those questions.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Thank You!


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

ostbucks98 said:


> Ohh snap!!! Did we leave a few standing....



Took a 8 pt opening day evening........so this is no way me whining


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

Fastwater, those are some very good questions! Outdoor Connection, I will be tuned in and listening!

As far as "extending" the gun season, it's already over with late muzzleloader right around the corner. Even if they did decide to cram another gun hunt in, it kind of becomes the "What if they threw a party but nobody came?" scenario. Doesn't mean you have to go out there! 

Here's a delightfully subversive idea. Suppose someone could organize enough Ohio deer hunters to buy a tag, but *not* deer hunt that year! What would that do for the herd? I know it's a pipe dream, but it's fun to think about. There was much the same thing going on in Colorado vis a vis trout fishing. It seems that in some streams feeding mountain reservoirs enormous brown trout would move up out of the lakes in the Fall to spawn in the streams. The Fisheries Dept. got the idea to sell "Trophy Trout Permits" that would allow you to keep one brown over 26", or something like that. The "catch & release" crowd bought these things like crazy with absolutely no intention of ever using them! They wanted those fish in the rivers, not on someone's wall! Just a thought.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Thank you *buckeyebowman*.

Too, I'd be more then willing to partake in your 'subversive idea'. Think it's an excellent idea. 

Guess that makes two of us at this point.


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## chromechaser (Oct 30, 2014)

Are the numbers really that bad, I went out opening day seen a couple and took a big doe Tuesday morning as well as missed a buck earlier that same morning ( buck fever got to me). I did go back out not to hunt but sit with my brother and we had deer movement consistently. Ashtabula county


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

fastwater said:


> Thank you *buckeyebowman*.
> 
> Too, I'd be more then willing to partake in your 'subversive idea'. Think it's an excellent idea.
> 
> Guess that makes two of us at this point.


I guess it's a start!



chromechaser said:


> Are the numbers really that bad, I went out opening day seen a couple and took a big doe Tuesday morning as well as missed a buck earlier that same morning ( buck fever got to me). I did go back out not to hunt but sit with my brother and we had deer movement consistently. Ashtabula county


The numbers are not that bad everywhere, but they're bad in enough places that people are noticing. My BIL has a place in SE OH, but also hunts a farm in southern Geauga Cty. near where he lives. He routinely takes a couple doe off this land every year, and has no problem seeing deer. And it's not like the area doesn't get hunted, it's Amish country for crying out loud! And 'Bula Cty. is becoming one of the "hotspots" for Ohio deer hunting. I think they now routinely rank in the top 10 deer kill counties in the state.


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## Bluewalleye (Jun 1, 2009)

I drive 150 miles total when I go bow hunting. The amount of dead deer that I saw this year along side of the highway was down big time compared to just 2 years ago. Huge difference. I used to see 10 to 15 dead deer at least in the past. This year is was more like 2 or 3. Now I know that the auto ins lobbyist love this number. What is good for the insurance company is bad for us hunters. But I have been screaming for the past 3 years that the bag limits for deer has been way to liberal. And that not enough hunters would police themselves to be more conservative on there harvests. Now a lot of hunters are all paying for those liberal laws of the past...
The area I bow hunt has plenty of deer on it. Cause the 3 of us who are allowed to hunt it have policed ourselves in the last few years. Sometimes you just have to do what is best for everyone and take a few less deer to make sure there are more for the future.... JMHO


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## Slab assassin 55 (Jan 27, 2013)

Where we hunt the doe numbers were way down but the buck numbers were not. None of the four of us who hunt took a doe so hopefully that will help for next year. We have just as many if not more bucks all age ranges than does on the cameras. Which directly translated to the stand I saw between 10-12 different bucks in the stand and possibly 4-6 different does which has us worried. 


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Was not able to tune in and listen to "The Outdoor Connection" with Mike Tonkovich last Thurs. evening. Wife and grandson had different plans for me in the way of going to G-sons school play. 

Is there a place I can go on the net and listen to the program? 

Really wanted to hear some of the resonse's Mike had in regards to ODNR's long range, projected total deer figure they are trying to accomplish along with some of the other questions that were raised.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

Bluewalleye said:


> I drive 150 miles total when I go bow hunting. The amount of dead deer that I saw this year along side of the highway was down big time compared to just 2 years ago. Huge difference. I used to see 10 to 15 dead deer at least in the past. This year is was more like 2 or 3. Now I know that the auto ins lobbyist love this number. What is good for the insurance company is bad for us hunters. But I have been screaming for the past 3 years that the bag limits for deer has been way to liberal. And that not enough hunters would police themselves to be more conservative on there harvests. Now a lot of hunters are all paying for those liberal laws of the past...
> The area I bow hunt has plenty of deer on it. Cause the 3 of us who are allowed to hunt it have policed ourselves in the last few years. Sometimes you just have to do what is best for everyone and take a few less deer to make sure there are more for the future.... JMHO


Well, the stretch of I 77 south of Salt Fork to where we exit for my BIL's hunting cabin seemed to be getting back to normal. There were plenty of deer carcasses. 2 years ago the highway was nearly bereft of dead deer. 10 years ago it was like an elongated boneyard! As far as hunters paying for liberal laws of the past, it's only because they took advantage of them without considering the consequences!



Slab assassin 55 said:


> Where we hunt the doe numbers were way down but the buck numbers were not. None of the four of us who hunt took a doe so hopefully that will help for next year. We have just as many if not more bucks all age ranges than does on the cameras. Which directly translated to the stand I saw between 10-12 different bucks in the stand and possibly 4-6 different does which has us worried.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


I have read before that that is the ODNR's objective. To get Ohio's deer herd closer to a 1 to 1, or 2 to 1 doe to buck ratio. Wherever you hunt, it seems to be working.


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## fieldstream13 (May 20, 2014)

Extending Gun Season is a bad idea IMO. (I have not Shot a Buck this year either)

Crossbow gives great opportunity for most people to enjoy the archery season.


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## wannabe (Dec 24, 2007)

If everyone is so worried about #s being down, why would anyone want an extended season?


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Bluewalleye said:


> I drive 150 miles total when I go bow hunting. The amount of dead deer that I saw this year along side of the highway was down big time compared to just 2 years ago. Huge difference. I used to see 10 to 15 dead deer at least in the past. This year is was more like 2 or 3. Now I know that the auto ins lobbyist love this number. What is good for the insurance company is bad for us hunters. But I have been screaming for the past 3 years that the bag limits for deer has been way to liberal. And that not enough hunters would police themselves to be more conservative on there harvests. *Now a lot of hunters are all paying for those liberal laws of the past...
> *The area I bow hunt has plenty of deer on it. Cause the 3 of us who are allowed to hunt it have policed ourselves in the last few years. Sometimes you just have to do what is best for everyone and take a few less deer to make sure there are more for the future.... JMHO


They are no less liberal now. The reduction from 6 to 3 is smoke and mirrors while the new early doe muzzle season will accomplish even further herd reduction which is exactly what the stated goal of the DNR is.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

reo said:


> They are no less liberal now. The reduction from 6 to 3 is smoke and mirrors while the new early doe muzzle season will accomplish even further herd reduction which is exactly what the stated goal of the DNR is.



There have been a lot less deer killed with the early muzzle season compared to the extra gun season we used to have. I wouldn't throw the early muzzle season into the reason the herd has declined. 


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

bobk said:


> There have been a lot less deer killed with the early muzzle season compared to the extra gun season we used to have. I wouldn't throw the early muzzle season into the reason the herd has declined.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Agreed but the disturbing part is that the vast majority killed during early muzzle are baby making does except for the button bucks. It is designed to further reduce in the future. As far as "less killed" hunters can't kill what doesn't exist......

The important point is even further herd reduction which is exactly what the stated goal of the DNR is. Again, they are NOT done trying to reduce the herd and they openly admit that.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

reo said:


> Agreed but the disturbing part is that the vast majority killed during early muzzle are baby making does except for the button bucks.
> 
> .


No doubt about it, however the number of does killed during the 2 day "bonus" season exceeded what is being harvested today in the early MZ season. There has been no increase in the harvest in the regular gun nor the statewide MZ season as a result of eliminating the 2 day "bonus" season. Hunters are not shifting their normal doe harvest during the previous 2 day season to the other gun seasons. There may be an increase in bow harvest as a result of the change but there is no way to qualify it.

So all things considered, based upon harvest the first two years of the new early MZ season, it has been a net reduction in does harvested as a result of the change. I am not sure that was the desired result of the DNR.


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Lundy said:


> No doubt about it, however the number of does killed during the 2 day "bonus" season exceeded what is being harvested today in the early MZ season. There has been no increase in the harvest in the regular gun nor the statewide MZ season as a result of eliminating the 2 day "bonus" season. Hunters are not shifting their normal doe harvest during the previous 2 day season to the other gun seasons. There may be an increase in bow harvest as a result of the change but there is no way to qualify it.
> 
> So all things considered, *based upon harvest *the first two years of the new early MZ season, it has been a *net reduction in does harvested as a result of the change*. I am not sure that was the desired result of the DNR.


There has been a net reduction in the overall harvest as well:
Can't kill what is not there.....
AND
Even though total harvest is down, Are we killing a lower or higher percentage of the herd???


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

reo said:


> There has been a net reduction in the overall harvest as well:
> Can't kill what is not there.....
> AND
> *Even though total harvest is down, Are we killing a lower or higher percentage of the herd???*


good question, we have no idea what the herd size is, and i have no idea how you would go about calculating it, other than hunter input. i know for me, the areas i hunt, portage, guernsey, coshocton, jefferson counties i have seen a lot less deer, and the more important part, less deer sign. it's the latter that bothers me most.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

It is the reduction in opportunity and hunters that has reduced the net doe harvest with the season change from 2 day bonus gun to 2 day early MZ season.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

Lundy said:


> It is the reduction in opportunity and hunters that has reduced the net doe harvest with the season change from 2 day bonus gun to 2 day early MZ season.


i would agree with that and glad that is how it is working out. but reo's question about percentage of herd killed is a valid one. harvest may be down 14%, but herd size might be down 20%. how do we know?


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *Lundy*:
> 
> It is the reduction in opportunity and hunters that has reduced the net doe harvest with the season change from 2 day bonus gun to 2 day early MZ season.


Agree with the above to a certain degree.

Since there are obviously more shotgun hunters then ML hunters, the mere fact that less people were probably in the woods during the ML bonus season then there would have been if it were an extended SG season, stands to reason less deer were taken. 
But with the obvious downsize of our deer herd population in rural areas, I'd bet everything I owned that if we would have had the extended SG season instead of the extended ML season, the numbers would still be down from the last extended SG season we had. There's just not as many deer where we're allowed to hunt.

The article *reo* posted: 
http://www.whitetailproperties.com/b...e-deer-decline 

in another thread is one everyone that is concerned about the dwindling deer herd numbers in rural areas should read. May be common sense to some, but very worth the read. If nothing more, just as a reminder. 

IMHO, probably the key element any DNR uses to control the population of much wildlife is us, the hunter. It's no secret ODNR is wanting to reduce Ohio's deer herd. By what percentage, we don't know cause they won't give a number. Just as important, they won't say where all these 700,000-750,000 current deer are at. Although Tonkovich stated the estimated deer herd numbers may be off, if 1/3 of that population is in no hunting areas(cities,parks etc) that does not leave a lot of deer in the rural, legal hunting areas to hunt.

Bottomline, ODNR has set very high bag limits on deer knowing and hoping hunters are going to go and bag as many deer as they can. Again, from mostly rural areas. 

If we hunters stay greedy and continue to play this game of going out and shooting deer like we are shooting rabbits, we are hurting the deer herd that will take years to recover. Mostly in the rural/hunting areas. 
It doesn't matter what 'special' bonus season ODNR has, their main objective is to reduce the total herd. Plain and simple. 
So the next time a 'special deer season' is instilled into our hunting laws, before we hunters get all giddy about being able to kill more deer, we need to think about the reason for the special season. 
We are our own worst enemy in many ways. If we're not careful and do not start policing ourselves, regardless of the ridiculous bag limits or special seasons ODNR may set, deer hunting as we have come to know it will be gone. I really hate the thought of my G-kids growing up hunting all season long not seeing but a few deer throughout all seasons like we did when we were young.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

fastwater, very nice. i have passed on two young deer this year and have nothing in the freezer. i'm ok with that. my family isn't going to starve. if i really was worried about the family eating, i would sell all my hunting stuff and buy cows for the next 20 years, and still be money ahead.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

There is a high probability that the harvest would be down during this years and last years 2 day gun season had it continued. If you look at the harvest data I posted in the other thread the harvest fluctuated from year to year but had definitely shown a downward trend the last couple years it was in effect.

But, replacing a 2 day, November, regular gun season with either sex being legal with a 2 day early October, MZ only, doe only season, the realized reduced harvest results I think have to be expected.

What percentage of the population is being harvest this year versus last year or the year before? I don't have clue other than success rates are dropping, harvest totals are dropping so it would lead me to believe that the total huntable population is reducing.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig posted by *hopintocash2*:
> 
> fastwater, very nice. i have passed on two young deer this year and have nothing in the freezer. i'm ok with that. my family isn't going to starve. if i really was worried about the family eating, i would sell all my hunting stuff and buy cows for the next 20 years, and still be money ahead.


Ha! Know what you mean about selling the hunting stuff and buying cows...or boats...or a Lamborghini. 

I surely wish you had some venison in the freezer. Kudo's to you for passing on the youngin's. If ya ML hunt, hope you bag one. 

Me...I'll probably use the ML during season to hunt yotes around the gut piles left by the one neighbors that actually have the saying in their family, " if it's brown it's down" and will shoot a deer if it has spots and milk on its mouth. And, they are not satisfied unless all 4 of them have killed their maximum limit every year and have maimed at least that many taking 100yd shots with bows, 250-300yd shots with shotguns and ML's. 
Oooops, sorry, I got on a roll. 

FWIW, I just can't figure out a way to make those yotes taste as good as that venison.


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## mlayers (Aug 22, 2011)

I don't see why some people complain about the deer herd. We only take what we can eat in year. No need to kill extra deers. I have put 2 in the freezer and my boy has put in 3 every one of his was put into salami. We give a stick to the land owners that we get permission from rather we hunt it or not. All 3 of his has been does so he is still hunting for 1 more deer which will be ground up into burger. There is still plenty of deers out there we took a afternoon canoe trip and bet we seen 150+ in a 2 mile strip. So get out do your scouting and you will find the deer. Good luck.....Matt


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