# Fly Fishing Sucks



## paradoxer (Apr 25, 2007)

Actually, I suck at fly fishing...

I've been on the Mad only 3 times and haven't even had a bite...even though I'm in areas where I know guys catch fish. I've fished my whole life so I know nothing is guaranteed, but I just don't feel like I'm doing it right.

I'm trying zebra midges and copper johns but can't seem to get them to run deep enough. I was told if I'm not snagging the bottom from time to time, then I'm not deep enough. Today I tried three split shot on my tippet/leader, but the current still seemed too fast to get to the bottom of the holes I fished. Should I just use heavier weight, or is there a good way to rig the split shot to be more effective?

The frustrating part is not that I'm not catching fish, it's that I don't feel like I know what I'm doing. The water still seems higher than what others suggest is optimum, so maybe I should just hold out a couple days/weeks?

Today I saw a couple guys fishing with spinning outfits. I was jealous. I'm hoping this fly fishing thing really is worth it in the long run....


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

brother your fishing a horribly technical trout stream, and the hardest part is finding the fish. You have your whole life ahead of you take your time it will happen. Describe to us just how you where fishing your set up etc....


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## paradoxer (Apr 25, 2007)

I have fly-fished ponds for bass, so I kind of know how to cast, but rarely can get the distance I'd like. I'm looking for cut banks where the water is a bit deeper, albeit faster too. I'm casting upstream, keeping my rod high to keep the fly line out of the water as much as possible, and letting it float downstream. Yes, all that is stuff I read online.

But I'm never dragging the bottom. I thought it would be bad to have too large of split shot on my line, but maybe that's what I need. I've tried the high side of riffles, the low side, pools, and downed trees. I haven't even seen a fish yet, except a carp. I saw some pictures today of a guy who fishes there regularly with night crawlers....I couldn't believe it. I'm trying to do this technical thing, and he's throwing worms and catching fish.

Maybe once I get better at casting I will be able to relax and just enjoy the fishing. I hit a spot south of County Line Road today and it was beautiful....I actually enjoyed the experience for a brief moment, until I caught a tree....

I'm being a bit dramatic here....I'm not really hating it. I'm just looking for some guidance. Thanks!


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Dude, i fished the mad at least a dozen times with the long rod before I ever caught my first trout, patience my friend...I know its hard to give up the spinning rod but with time and practice, the fish will come and after each one, your confidence will shoot up like a rocket, its all part of the learning curve. 

007 is right, the Mad is one of the nations toughest trout streams, seriously.. the high pressured fish, the lack of structure and the strong flows all contribute to this. Many of the nations best trout guys have all been skunked on the Mad, ( Clouser,Borger, etc) 

Ok, from years of guiding guys like yourself I can probably tell you what your doing that is causing you to not catch fish and you have most of the problem already figured out ( good for you) you stated it seems like you are not getting the fly down deep enough and that is probably true, I see it about every day Im out teaching folks, they always "think" they are getting a dead drift and do a ghood job of mending and they think they are doing a good enough job of it but in reality, line control is 100% the key to catching fish on any stream and most folks need a aa TON of work ( IE Practice) to master this. 

Best advise is to make sure you are casting straight upstream ansd stripping the line in as it comes back to you, this will help you as will more time casting so you can cast further upstream giving the flies more time to sink before they get back to you . After that, try to hook up with some folks better then you and really watch what they are doing, watch there hands, watch how they cast and more importantly, how they are mending and controling the line, Im telling you , the fish on the mad are opportunistic eaters and 95% of the time, the type of flies do not matter, its all about presentation. I am not bragging but I can always catch fish behind my friends and they hate me for it but in watching me do it over and over, they have all become much better technitions of line control and have all told me how seeing me do that has really made them become better fishermen. 

This is lesson 1, when you get to lesson 27 or so, that where the harder lessons come in on mending... 

Good luck Grasshopper and dont forget the part about being patient...

Salmonid


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## Matt Hougan (Aug 19, 2008)

I must admit I've been fishing with him and I'm just as frustrated. I have no trouble with hitting holes and I too am certain I'm not fishing deep enough. I figured out today that I need to be casting up stream in order to give the fly a chance to sink, but the river we fished was pretty fast. I tried keeping my line mended but holy cow you gotta strip that fly line fast..............too fast for me at times.

Here is Paradoxer in action










I'm gonna try it again in the morning...........


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## paradoxer (Apr 25, 2007)

I should have saved the $15 I spent on that net.


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## Matt Hougan (Aug 19, 2008)

Hey , if your gonna go fishing it's all abut how you look, right?


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## Intracoastal (Sep 12, 2009)

It's true: when you do catch a fish, they will appreciate you dressing up for the occasion 

I really would discourage you from thinking that you suck at fly fishing just because you haven't caught trout on a highly pressured river. On the flipside, if you do start catching trout there, you are a pretty darn good fly angler. Perhaps to a purist who believes that trout are the only fish to be pursued on the fly would your predicament make you a bad fly angler. But at least IMO, there are many other species and habitats to fish with the fly. You can be a really good and talented fly angler in freshwater without ever hooking a trout. Some fish are easier than other to fool, but each has their own unique difficulties. 

My suggestion is to take a small break from The Mad, and even trout, and try out a different place and a different species. Or go back to your confidence-builder, the stillwater bass and bluegills. Or find a shallow, clear stream close to home where you can watch your fly and line drift while practicing presentations. I don't know how long you've been fly fishing, but you have to enjoy every painstaking and wonderful step along the journey of personal progress, not compare yourself too early to people who have done it their whole lives.


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## Matt Hougan (Aug 19, 2008)

Not to steal Jason's thread but here's what I learned today.

I went back to the Mad today with a friend who is an experienced Mad River fly fisherman. We had both fly and spinning tackle with us. We both fished both ways. I caught four browns today on spinning tackle. 

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=141169

I noticed several things today. The water is flowing around 220 cfs. As I stood in the middle of the river I could see uncountable numbers of little pieces of debris floating by. How in the world do I expected a trout to single out my fly over all those little bits of leaves and twigs etc..... Unrealistic I think.

Another thing I learned is to keep things short. I watched my buddy and another fly fisherman make 15' casts.. Here Jason and I would stand a good distance from the hole and make these Hollywood type casts trying to mend 30'+ fly line zooming down the river.

Many times they would not cast at all, they'd simply sneak up to the hole and drop there fly at the top of the drift and follow the fly with their rod tip.

One more thing I noticed on these short casts is how effortless they looked and how softly the fly would hit the water. I learned alot today just watching.

I think I'll shorten my leader to about 6' and a couple feet of tippet...... It's hard to make a 15' or 20' cast when it's all leader and tippet.........


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

sound sliek the guys you were fishing with were solid experienced fly guys, the fact they were dropping flies on there noses ( High Stick/Czech nymphing) shows they know what they are doing, I will tell you that the bad 30' ft cast will be easier to catch trout for the layman then the super short technique. Just my opinion but good job on watching and making notes , all which will help you become a better flyfishermen. 


Salmonid


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## troutdude (Jul 28, 2008)

Hmm... You're describing my biggest fear on transitioning to the fly, which I'm planning on doing relatively soon. Especially knowing the Mad is as complicated as it is and that even with my best offerings on the spin gear presented in the best way I know how, I still get skunked on occasion. I suspect that a handful of trips with a fly rod but no fish will take any fun right out of it. 

But I also know that the best things life has to offer don't come easy and don't happen overnight. Maybe that's why it's so rewarding when you do get it right. Wishing you the best on your journey. One thing about fly fisherman, especially on here, is that they sure are willing to share what they know. 

Make sure you post a pic of your first one.


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## BigRed (Jun 19, 2008)

Fished my whole life, took up fly fishing last July. Learned fly tying this winter. The Mad is a wicked place to fly fish, so narrow and over-hung with limbs. So, I go simple, I use a dropper rig. Usually 6-8 feet of leader and 3 feet of tippet. Top fly is anything that floats well (size 8-10), bottom fly is a plain Hares Ear (size 12-14). Bottom is rigged twice the depth of the water, normally slip-knotted to the top fly's hook. Cast upstream at about a 45 degree angle. Wait until the "fly line" (not leader, tippet or fly) is even with me, then mend once upstream. That keeps the fly following the side current. Mending earlier will pull the fly to the middle of the stream.

Also, remember bass fishing? Get some clousers, poppers, and crawfish imitations and hit the normal rivers (LMR, GMR, Stillwater). IMHO, Stillwater and GMR above Dayton all the way to Tipp and Piqua are the best bass spots. And check this ... Those are nice, wide open rivers. Wade out from the bank and cast anyway you like ... no fly-eating trees.

Remember, if any type of fishing becomes "difficult" or "frustrating" you're missing the whole point of the sport ... it's fishing, not catching ... relax and enjoy the beautiful rivers we have around us.

Good luck and ... enjoy the journey!


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

The Mad I always here is very unforgiven. But I am a bettin that a small classic streamer fished thru these hole will get you into the trouts like I have been doing down here. Patience is paramount and if you are using nymphs then get it down with more weight as you should be getting hits.


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## Clayton (Oct 7, 2008)

olive woolly bugger.

Go get some fish


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

my two cents 

wait a week and a half or two weeks for the henricksons to hatch. do trout eat most of thier food sub-surface yes. are nymphs more effective..? well they are certainly less effecient. nymphing is inherantly flawed, in order to detect a bite you have drag somewhere in the rig, with lots of line under the water there is alot more that can go wrong and you dont know. presentation is the key, and the fish see alot of insects and stuff drifting around, they will take if it acts naturally but thats hard to do with a nymph.
dries are more effecient because you can get a true dead drift with a fly, or atleast close, it just seems harder because you can see it happen. so there you have it, why you can catch more fish on dries than nymphs.

but if you dont want to wait for the hatches, bring out a 6-7wt, a sinking lines, and a fly between 2.5 and 6 inches, you dont have to get those down on a good drift you just make them look like they are running for dear life


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## finnflyfishing (Nov 28, 2021)

I actually recommend to people new to fly fishing to start out with Euro Nymphing. I rarely have someone go home without catching a fish their first day with this technique. It is catching on in the US right now. You can make the kit you have work for getting started by just creating a long thin leader and adding about 20ft of 20lb mono to the end of your fly line. You will also want to make sure you fly rod is balanced since it makes a big difference. If it isn't, you can get a rod balancing kit to fix the issue.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

The Mad is not the easiest place to learn. Something to try, though, that goes in the face of what you've been trying to do with getting nymphs down and getting a natural drift...swing buggers and soft hackle flies. It's highly untechnical, somewhat mindless, but very effective. Heck, swing both at the same time. Tie a dropper off a small wooly bugger to a soft hackle. The process is so simple and easy it's almost stupid. Work downstream, cast across or down and across the current. Let the current wash the fly or flies downstream below you. Do NOT recast until the fly has dangled straight downstream of you for a few seconds. A lot of strikes come when the fly is straight below you. Take a step or two downstream and repeat. 

It can be that simple. And it works everywhere I have fished. A buddy of mine, when we fish some of the best trout streams in the East down in Tennessee, usually ignores the hatches and slings buggers. And he catches fish. Give it a shot.


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

finnflyfishing said:


> I actually recommend to people new to fly fishing to start out with Euro Nymphing.


I agree with you this style can be learned easy especially in good flow with fish. 
I have a bit of a hangnail on the term Euro Nymphing. I just want to get this out to my favorite fly fishing group, and many of you already know. Just like I enjoy "Freedom Fries" now and never eat french fries any longer, as a red blooded American, I cannot promote Euro Nymphing for 2 reasons. 

Most of all, it is so very similar to a style our PA brother Joe Humphreys has been using and teaching for almost 9 decades. He probably learned it from someone too in America. Jeff Daniels and Domenick Swentoski are 2 guides who teach and use this sytem now. Its called the "Mono Rig." There is a great movie called "Live the Stream" about Joe and his life. So I prefer to promote this style. 

My second reason is the euro style tries to use 3 flies often and that is not allowed in many places here in the US. The Mono system is so close to the euro nymph system, I don't see it as revolutionary. Some of the flies might be newer, but those check nymphs have been tied that way over here for years also. Call it what you want but you don't have to look to europe to find its origins thats my point.

This is meant to help people realize there are similar ways to nymph success. Hope others find this Joe Humphreys Mono style inventive too.

Rickerd


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