# Youth Deer Gun Season Marks First Use of Rifles in Ohio



## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

> The Ohio Division of Wildlife is still verifying some deer checked to determine who actually harvested the first (legal) deer with a rifle in Ohio. That information is not yet officially available. The youth season recorded a total of 6453 deer harvested. That number is slightly below the last year's total of 6640. There were 378 deer taken using the new SWC rifles. There was at least one deer taken with a SWC rifle in every Ohio county. While the number is not large, the use across the state reflects the interest in this new option for Ohio deer hunting.


Read on: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/youth-deer-gun-season-marks-first-use-rifles-ohio


----------



## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

First LEGAL use of rifles you mean. Lol.

I am looking forward to it. I have killed four deer now in WV this year with my new .444. Other than my bullet selection I have been very happy. Once I get some brass built up I will hand load for a fraction of the cost of a slug with better accuracy, improved efficiency and less recoil. 

I have a stand in ohio that I frequently see deer at 200+ yards and am now well equipped for that situation.

I am also pleased that when my son comes of age that he will be able to shoot a rifle rather than a slug gun.

If the controlled hunts allowed straight wall cartridges I would sell my slug guns and never look back.

Thanks buckeye Dan for your part in making it happen.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Mad Eye,

I will have my son Big Joshy hunting with my new .444 this year.

All I have available is the leverevolution ammunition. I am assuming that is what you are using this year also.

Tell me about the bullet performance that you have experienced please. If I need to tell him to stay off of the shoulder I need to know that.

Thanks


----------



## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

I'm sure that a shoulder shot is going to cause some meat damage. But then again every bullet, slug, and sabot will cause meat loss on a shoulder shot regardless of caliber. I like the shoulder shot when gun hunting. It makes for a quick kill and less dragging. Front shoulders yield very little meat once you remove sinew.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

supercanoe said:


> I'm sure that a shoulder shot is going to cause some meat damage. But then again every bullet, slug, and sabot will cause meat loss on a shoulder shot regardless of caliber. I like the shoulder shot when gun hunting. It makes for a quick kill and less dragging. Front shoulders yield very little meat once you remove sinew.


It is not about the meat it is about bullet construction and effective kills. A shoulder shot with the wrong bullet can be the worst shot selection you can take resulting in a wounded and lost deer. Much like a muzzleloader with many of the Powerbelt bullets.

Not all bullets and their capabilities are created equal. Bullet design and shot location selection must (or should always be) considered.


----------



## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

look at this thread in the lodge forum


*First deer with a .444 marlin*


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

hopintocash2 said:


> look at this thread in the lodge forum
> 
> 
> *First deer with a .444 marlin*


I read that previously.

He now has taken 4 deer with that bullet and commented below.

"Other than my bullet selection I have been very happy"

I'm guessing he is getting bullet fragmentation, but he will let me know when he sees this.


----------



## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

Mad-Eye Moody said:


> Thanks buckeye Dan for your part in making it happen.


A handful of guys did the pushing but without the public support and support of the hunting community in general this thing would never have happened. So thank you to everyone who supported it.

Stories like the one I linked to made it all worth while. My only regret is we couldn't make it happen sooner.


----------



## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

> Tell me about the bullet performance that you have experienced please. If I need to tell him to stay off of the shoulder I need to know that.


from reading his post in the other thread, i would say, *stay off the shoulder.*


----------



## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Sure Lundy.

I have killed four deer with the leverevolution bullet. Currently that is the most available bullet in factory load. If you look around you will also find remington core lock 240 flat nose bullets. I plan to try those next year and then eventually handload. Brass availability is a problem right now.

The first deer I shot was 175 yards quartering to. I hit it square on the shoulder. There was a wound on the entry that was about four inches across. The entire scapula and entire upper half of the humerus was disintegrated. The meat was shredded. Pieces of bone were on the ground near the deer. The entire shoulder and upper leg was shredded by bone and bone chips. When skinning the deer, the shoulder and leg detached on its own. The bullet and jacket separated and lodged in the skin on the opposite side. The damage was unacceptable. I have shot dozens of deer in the shoulder with slugs, muzzleloaders and 30 caliber rifles. I have never seen anything like it.

The second deer I killed was 20 yards broadside. I hit behind the shoulder and at the top of the heart. Exit wound was near the diaphragm. The organs in front of the diaphragm were jelly and un recognizable. Somehow the stomach was disrupted as well. Either by bone or bullet shard. Zero meat loss, bullet not recovered. Entry and exit wound comparable to 12 guage slug. Deer reaction similar to stepping on land mine.

Third deer was a doe shot at 55 yards. Hit it a little far back as I shot it left handed and left eyed. Hit forward of the diaphragm but not by much. Heart recognize able, but lungs were liquified, again, stomach disturbed. No meat loss, no bullet recover.

Fourth deer killed, small doe. Broadside shot. Close to 200 yards. Misjudged distance. Hit humerus square. Bullet or bone deflected and took out the guts. Shoulder complete loss like first deer. Trauma pattern about 14" circle. Entry and exit wounds looked normal.

I have had gut damage that I don't understand. The bullet clearly does not hold together when significant bone is hit.

This is a common complaint with this round from my reading. I have tried to avoid the shoulder. In my opinion a true broadside shot behind the shoulder is fine. But that limits me.

I selected this ammo because of trajectory and availability. I will not be hunting with it next year. I will happily give up point blank aim distance for a more practical bullet. I really like the gun. It handles well, recoil is not an issue and it is far more accurate than any slug gun I have owned. When I start handloading for it I will have a range of bullet construction types to select from. There are forums that address the issues I have had well and I am confident I will settle on a load that treats the animal with a little more respect.

Headed out to try to fill my last wv tag this afternoon, if I have more info I will let you know.

In short Lundy, stay off the shoulder, or plan to lose the entire shoulder. However, you do not have to worry about tracking a deer hit by the .444.


----------



## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Lundy, the round will NOT result in a lost deer from a shoulder hit. The deer will not leave the scene. Hope that helps.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for the information, that is what I had read also but wanted to hear it first hand from your experience.

I like the way the .444 is shooting but like you plan on getting some brass and doing some loads of my own next year with a bullet that will hold together better.

Thanks again and hope you get some more deer.


----------



## gino (May 14, 2008)

Hi guys happy thanksgiving to all you will have to excuse my ignorance here I'm reading this post about deer hunting with rifles which are replacing slug shotguns it seems that thee 444 is the calibre of choice but why such a large bullet to drop a whitetail am I missing something I would use it hunting heavy brush but a 200 yd shot I've takein many deer both slug and rifle from a 243 to a 300 weatherby the 300 was while I was moose hunting an area with open deer season fireing moose season I live in southern Ontario we are not allowed to shoot deer with rifle so I use sabots and I think that even at that it's to much gun for a whitetail sure if your useing a 444 your going to have meat loss I'm i on the wrong page or is there something else to it if I could shoot rifle in my area I have a 243 which I love and a 280 ackly imp which both do a very neat job and have good distance 


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Gino,

Only a very select few calibers are legal in a rifle to hunt in Ohio. This is the first year that these limited calibers are legal.

The legal calibers are all straight walled, no bottleneck cartridges, so the flatter shooting smaller caliber more deer appropriate choices are not legal to hunt with.


----------



## gino (May 14, 2008)

Rifle hunt 
Sorry Lundy excuse my ignorance to the fact I hope I didn't offend anybody I didn't know but you guys are lucky the state allows you to hunt deer with any type of rifle I live in southern Ontario half hour From Buffalo and the dumb thing here in Canada is that they allow us to use up to a 270 for varmints but we can't use a rifle for anything else pretty stupid I think as you have guys that get out hunting once a year for the deer season and think they can shoot a challenger slug thru a smoth bore 300 yds and sometimes they will hit the deer and just wound it I have takein deer at 225 yds with my slug gun but I also practise a lot we own four hundred acres so I have an ideal place to practise and all my firearms are dead on with that being said I also know there range but I don't want to harp on it I just want to wish all the deer hunters the best of luck this season good luck guys
Gino


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


----------



## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

I have shot 10-12 deer with the 250 grain sst in my muzzleloader. The sst and fxt are the same bullet. These bullets don't expand much at all at muzzeloader velocities unless you shoot bone at close range. Then I have found that the plastic tip will send shards of plastic laterally. The tip will open and the petals will fragment a bit sending very sharp pieces of the jacket laterally. This could be how Mad Eye got busted guts. Recovered bullets typically show 90-100 weight retention though. I have only recovered a couple, most are pass thru shots with very little expansion. If I can find a mature doe this is week I will see what they do at higher velocities.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

supercanoe said:


> I have shot 10-12 deer with the 250 grain sst in my muzzleloader. The sst and fxt are the same bullet. These bullets don't expand much at all at muzzeloader velocities unless you shoot bone at close range.


That is the reason I was asking because 250 SST at smokeless muzzleloader velocities, 2400 - 2700 FPS and under 100 yds is a basically a no go, they blow up like a grenade. The 200 and 300 gr seem to hold together pretty well. Some have had better success with the 250 bonded also.

I was just curious only because I have seen some pictures of nasty bullet blowups and numerous reports over the years of lost deer with the 250 SST from VERY experienced Smokeless MZ hunters.

Just trying to match bullet construction to the velocities and get the performance I look for in a bullet


----------

