# Pro Hunter with BarnesTMZ EZ load sabots



## Cool Hunter (Dec 8, 2004)

Just got back from shooting. Shot my new pro hunter. Tried using triple 7 and pyrodex pellets. Used 150 and 100 grain loads. Was using the 250 grain Knight EZ load polymer tipped MZ sabots. After one shot with both the triple 7 and regular pyrodex with both 100 and 150 grain charges, I was unable to seat the sabot for the second shot due to crud. It would stop about 1/2-1" before the powder. I pushed and pushed and it just wouldn't seat. The shots when not seating would tumble at 50 yds. The bullets would hit the target sideways. Do you think this was from not seating the bullet or my gun just doesn't like these sabots? I really want to use the barnes sabots. Would it help to go away from the EZ loads? Any ideas on the powder/seating issue? I'm thinking about trying the Blackhorn 209 powder. Anyone have experience with this? I need to be able to seat the bullet. I don't want to clean the barrel every shot. What happens when you need to take a second shot on a deer? No seat and tumbling bullet? I'm willing to do anything to keep using the Barnes sabots. Even different Barnes sabots. Just need to find combination. Help would be appreciated. Thanks


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## jake74 (Apr 3, 2005)

I am not a pro by any means but I would try again but this time shoot only pyrodex. I shoot an encore with 100 grain tripple seven and 240 grain xtp sabots. I shot pyrodex for a few years and hated the clean up so I switched anyway the tripple seven leaves a ring about an inch or so from ignition that is as hard as nails. Every three shots I swab my gun or I have a tough time seating my sabot. Just a thought but I would try it.


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## Angler ss (May 15, 2008)

I shoot TC Shockwave 250 grain sabots out of my TC Omega.I clean every shot at the range but I can load at least twice without cleaning in the field.If I were you I would be worried about barrel damage if the sabot is not set on the powder it can build pressure between the powder and sabot and buldge the barrel.This is why TC says to mark the ram rod. Primers can also cause barrel build up I use Remington clean bore primers with 777 powder. With a good scope I can shoot 2 in groups at 100yards and 4-5 in groups at 200yards.I would try the TC shockwave sabots they come in 200,250 and 300 grains I like the bonded ones which are the blue tip with yellow sabot. Hope this helps alittle.
Angler ss


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## Cool Hunter (Dec 8, 2004)

I tried the triple seven primers. Used two and there was still lots of build up with the triple 7 powder. Tried two other primers and the gun wouldn't close. The primers were either two long or the back lip on them was too thick. The gun either would cock or wouldn't snap closed. Maybe I got a bad batch. Might try the remington clean bore primers. Read some reviews after the first post on Blackhorn 209. Really didn't want to use loose powder but it had great reviews. Multiple shots with no crud ring and great accuracy. Easy clean up. Think I will try that too. I know the shockwaves are recommended with the gun but after using the barnes in another TC, I don't want to go away from them. Great knock down power, huge wound channels and great accuracy with the right load. I'm not worried about the barrel damage. Only shot a couple shots with the sabot not seating. It was close to seating. The barrel is still tight all of the way down and the breech plug is fine. The guns are designed and built taking shots like that into account. Not that its okay. Thats why I want to fix it. Tried to push the sabot out instead of firing without seating, but couldn't push it out. Stuck really good. Thanks for the responses. Any more ideas are still welcome.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

T7 is famous for it's "crud ring".

Try only pyrodex the next time out. I shot Pyrodex select (same granular size) in my knights with great success. I never had much success with pellets in any gun a tired them in. 

Even shooting the pyrodex I would wet/dry patch every 2 shots for optimum results, but in the field could still load multiple loads without swabbing if necessary.

I have no personal knowledge of the blackhorn power, but have read some good results

PM sent


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I am still waiting on delivery of my first ML so I am reading all of these inquiry posts with a lot of interest. This weekend I was in Dick's to buy some supplies and they had no Pyrodex in stock so I bought a couple of pack of Triple 7's to try. Now this thread has me wondering if it will be a real pain. They didn't have primers in stock either (very disappointed in available stock) so I have not bought them either. I was going to pick up some Pyrodex when I get somewhere to get my primers. I read just a little about the two brands of Pyrodex (RS and Slect). Kim, would you say it is worth me buying the Select or should I stick with the RS? It sounded like the Select gives better consistency but I am thinking that maybe I need to whoot the gun for a bit before I get a feel for exactly what my needs are and that the Select may not benefit me as much yet, at least enough to warrant the additional cost.

I will be shooting a 50 caliber inline with 240 grain XTP's (at least for starters) to give you an idea.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Brian,

I have all kinds of different powers and bullets for you to try to help you make a good selection.

The only problem is I wouldn't be able to assist you with any of that until after the 1st or the year.

I always achieved better accuracy of of loose powder than I did with pellets. 

Is the select worth the price difference? Is was to me due to consistent granular size and load performance throughout the entire container. It may not be worth it to someone else.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I will start with the RS and see how it goes. I will keep it in mind as another improvement that I can make along the way.

As far as getting help on the setup I know that I am working on a very short timeline. I don't even know if I will get this in time to get set up and ready for this ML season. I am going to try but if it does not happen I will just have plenty of time to figure it out.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Number one safety must for anyone shooting a MZ.

Mark (witness mark) your ramrod at top of barrel with a load of powder and bullet fully seated. Use this mark to verify all is good PRIOR to ever pulling the trigger to make it go bang

Helps prevent double loading, no powder, no bullet, bullet not seated all they way, bullet movement (not common but does happen) in barrel over time. 3 of the 5 can blow up your gun, not good!


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## Cool Hunter (Dec 8, 2004)

Thanks for the advice. I know it wasn't good. I have a witness mark. Thats how I knew it wasn't seating. There are probably a lot of guys out there that load and don't completely seat their bullet using the triple 7 powder. 1/4-1/2" from seating, a lot of guys in a hurry wouldn't recognize that. I recognized and thats why I'm changing loads. Hoping the Blackhorn 209 I bought today works better. When I shot the other day, I bet I shot 3 loads in that range from seating. It made me sick but it was that or taking a hammer to my ramrod. Not planning on doing either any more. Guess if another gets stuck I will be taking gun apart and taking home to get out. I think if a TC Pro Hunter blew up everytime a sabot was 1/2" from seating there would be a lot of hurt people around. Not disagreeing with you at all that its dangerous. Anyways, thats the last time I'm doing it.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I wasn't talking directly about your issue as much as i was talking to Brain, a newbe to MZ shooting and anyone else that may not realize the danger of firing a gun, any gun, with a barrel obstruction.

T/C makes a good gun, it can stand some abuse some others may not endure however you never know what the limits are until it's too late


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## Dawitner (Apr 25, 2004)

I too finally found some of the Blackhorn 209, Sportsmen's Den in Shelby. If the weather cooperates tomorrow I am going to give it a try. Got tired of the crud problems with the 777. Supposedly IMR has a new pellet out for trial right now that is white. Not supposed to have the problems that 777 has. 

One thing I have read and it even says it on the bottle is that you have to clean Blackhorn with regular oil based gun cleaners. Use Hoppe's then dry patch it should do the trick. We will see !!!!


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## Cool Hunter (Dec 8, 2004)

Just tried the Blackhorn 209 yesterday. I didn't have any of the problems I had before. Used the 250 grain barnes TMZ and 100 grains of BH209. Easy loading. Not one load was even close to not seating. All seated well and all sabots flew true. Then I cleaned the gun. Awesome!!! Looked down the barrel before cleaning and after 10 shots yesterday, it looked cleaner than one shot with pyrodex or triple 7. Its by far the best powder I have used. Just kept smiling while I was shooting.


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## Bulldog1149 (Feb 26, 2006)

I shoot an TC omega and it is a bear to get the second shot seated. I have a mark on my ramrod to verify the depth. I have found that I simply drop in my two pellets (100 gr), drop in the sabot for my hornady xtp, then I drop in the bullet. The sabot will go to the bottom and then you push the last 3/8 of an inch and you done. I san someone else do this and I have been doing the same ever since, without any problems. I shoot pyrodex powder as well.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Bulldog1149 said:


> I shoot an TC omega and it is a bear to get the second shot seated. I have a mark on my ramrod to verify the depth. I have found that I simply drop in my two pellets (100 gr), drop in the sabot for my hornady xtp, then I drop in the bullet. The sabot will go to the bottom and then you push the last 3/8 of an inch and you done. I san someone else do this and I have been doing the same ever since, without any problems. I shoot pyrodex powder as well.


Being very new at the ML thing I am far from an expert but I found that I had very little difficulty loading if I ran a cleaning patch through between each shot. It seemed to keep it cleaned enough to make each load seem similar to the first one. Of course I only shot about 10 shots before finishing and completely cleaning up. I was shooting Hornady 240 grain XTP's. Personally I would have been afraid of trying to drop the sabot in first. It would seem to me that you may run the risk of not putting the bullet fully inside of the sabot. If you caught the edge of the flaps I would think it would just fold them down leaving you with an imperfect seating. But if it works for you maybe that is not the case. But I could see where that may produce erratic flyer every now and then. I will just continue to clean in between each time as it seemed to do the trick for me. It only takes an extra minute or two. At some point I should try doing a second loading immediately after the initial one to see how quick reloading in the field would work for a followup shot.


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