# Armco Park Lake 3/28



## Ol'Bassman

Armco Park opened for the first time to public yesterday (Saturday, 3/28). Having lived in the area for twenty plus years and not being able to fish this 125 acre lake because it was a private lake, had peeked my curiousity so I went to check it out. I got there around 8:30 am and left at 12:00 noon. There was a half a dozen cars in the lot when I got there and as the day progressed it became clear that I was not the only one waiting to check out the park. When I left there were fishermen about every 30 ft around the bank on the east side of the lake near the boat house harbor. I think the west side of the lake is part of Shaker Run golfing community and don't think you can get access to fish the bank from that side of the lake. I fished the boat dock area with two poles. One pole with slip floater with a minnow and one with various crank lures (almost lost my new red eye shad lure on a snag but worked it back and forth until the hook broke off), and caught one dink SMB on a rebel craw and that was it for me. Minnows were $1.30/doz so I bought a doz to see if the crappie were biting. Should have saved the money because there was nothing biting minnows. The dink SM saved me from a total :S. I did not see any other fish caught in that area of the lake. 

I cruised the entire park. It is a real nice park. Some of the shelters have volleyball and horseshoe pits. There were softball diamonds with leagues playing. I believe you can buy beer at the softball concession stand and at the golf shop (there is an 18 hole golf course) for those that like a beer or two after fishing all day. 

As for boating, it is a trolling motor only lake. I just went through two weeks of hell mounting a new wireless minn kota to the bow of my old bayliner. This lake is going to make it up for me. You can rent row boats with trolling motors for $6.00 (3-hours), $8.00 (6-hours) or $10.00 (all day) or you can launch your own boat for $7.00 or a season launch pass for $125.00. There was no fee to enter the park.

As I was leaving, I saw a guy walking to his car with a 2-1/2 to 3 lb LMB. This lake is a great addition for the average fisherman in this area and I understand that Warren County is going to pour funds into it to make improvements. 

For additional info, below is the warren county parks website:

http://www.co.warren.oh.us/parks/
________
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## bigdino81

Do you know what kinds of fish are stocked in this lake


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## Ol'Bassman

LM & SMB, Crappie, Catfish & Bluegills. Don't know if there are any Muskies, Pike, Walleye, Sauger or Saugeye. Maybe, some of AK Steel employees that have fished it over the years will contribute an answer. I know that Warren county is studying the lake so they can make improvements.
________
Buy a new condo in Pattaya


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## Slogdog

It will be interesting to see how Warren County "pours funds" into it. It's nice to have it available to the public but it is much more likely to deteriorate rather than improve from how it is today. The Armco management was "tight" but they did a good job and is the reason the park looks nice today. As word gets out, including it now being on this board, the first 60 degree weekend will be people every 10 feet instead of every 30. I hope the new Warren county funds don't end up being all used to pick up the new levels of litter the park will now see.


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## labman

i have fished this lake for 2 years,and i think with it now opened to the publice it will go down hill,because the slob fishermen will move in and keep every thing they catch,just look at the other lakes like cowan,cc,when you see people keeping 10inch bass or 5inch crappie,or even a 30inch musky,and im sure everybody has seen it,i just hope it doesnt happen at armco,hopefully they will watch and regulate what people are taking out .and yes sat was a zoo their,we caught about 5 crappie 6inchers.


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## ryanhipsher

I want to start off by saying that I am not defending or trying to offend anybody. I like that fact that armco park is open to the public now. I do not agree with labman. I think the "slob fisherman" should be called the "slob management". It is poor management that brings our lakes down. We all have to purchase a fishing license to fish anywhere in Ohio on public waters. I feel that they should spend a little more money on our waterways that we fisherman contribute to in more than one way. The laws need to be reinforced instead being overlooked. I feel that we need a launch fee and yearly parking pass for every lake to add more money to put into the lakes. I would have no regrets paying a $20 launch fee or yearly pass(like Indiana-take a look at the lakes and parks over there) for example, you have no trash cans at cc, because they have no money to manage it. Now back to the fishing, CC, Rocky Fork, East Fork, Paint Creek, and Cowen eveyone of these lakes are excellant lakes in Ohio. They all produce good numbers of fish. Sorry for the muskie fisheman, but this is how I feel and some people will agree and disagree with me. You take a muskie that fishes 24/7 365 days a year, or you take your average fisherman that fishes maybe twice a week for eight hours. you do that math on who catches more fish. I am a witness to this, I have caught numerous crappie and bass with muskie blows. I have pictures to prove it. I have been reeling in 12 inch fish, more than once, and have had them ripped off my hook. But this is the way nature manges the fisheries, don't get me wrong we all need to do our part catch and release. Rocky Fork, in my opinion, is one of the best bass fishing lakes in southwest ohio. It produces good crappie, it produces excellant largemouth, but take a look at the water, you have weeds that the sailboaters are complaining about that they want removed. What's going to happen when you remove these weeds? Your spawning fish that hatches will have no more hiding spots because weeds make the best hiding spots for the fry fish. Where they can grow up and fend for themselves. Take CC, it started out in 2005 with weeds and zebra muscles it was the best year for bass fishing. fish could hide and muskies could live happily. Alot of people complained about the zebra muscles but they kept the water clear and clean. this is hear say, but they said they sprayed for weeds and the muscles how true this is I don't know. it could have been the floods that killed the weed growth from the past few years. and poor spawning from the bass. not only at this lake but all other lakes. So I feel if the state would put a number limit and a size limit on the crappie then we wouldn't have the so-called "slob fisherman" taking home 100 fish for one day all considered undersized. I am am not a muskie fisherman, so I am not sure what the size limit is but the bass I think are regulated just fine throughout the state. And those who are keeping under the size limit will eventually get caught. I have have so much to say and not enough page to say it on. I will leave it at that. As you all know I have my own website, to view some of the nicest fish produced out of these lakes check the pics out. I am making a new voting poll on my site about a launch pass in the state of ohio. If you feel that a $20 yearly boating pass is reasonable, vote for it or against it. Just google ryan hipsher. Thanks! See you on the water!


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## Salmonid

Ryan while I agree with some (not all) of your comments, 1 in particular I will comment on. The comment about a yearly launch fee is interesting because I do feel it would help out but unfortunately, there are a few reasons why this wont happen anytime soon. 1st reason is the all "incoming" funds such as fishing licenses, hunting licenses etc all go directly into the General Fund, as long as this happens, the chance that parks will get more money in a misnomer becuase the parks are very low on the priority list within the state budgets. Years ago we tried to implement a trout stamp and were told that any money generated would not go back to the trout program short of several new changes having to be made by the legislative body and that would never happen as those same individuals would see that as taking money from the general fund. ( Gotta think like a politician here and I know its hard since its soooo immoral) 2nd reason is that to "add" a fee for what most folks feel is "public" would never fly since the majority of the folks would feel like it was adding a tax increase and politicians, exspecially on election years would never pass anything that would look like a new tax in case they want to ever get reelected. Most folks do not realize how much politics are involved with changing either state laws or making changes to the state legislative code. 

Its a good idea though and I would gladly pay a boat fee for nice facilities.

Salmonid


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## Ajax

I just don't understand why Ohio doesn't implement size limit or slot limits for their bass and other game species for all waterways. I keep hearing that all the lakes are overfished. If we had some real regulation the real fishermen would run the slobs out of town. I could go on and on, siting specific examples of quality fisheries in other states when size limit and slot limits were enforced.


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## riverKing

Man i wish I was there to fish this lake, it should be a great addition to our SW ohio fishing. thought about trying to sneak into it for years and never got dumb enough too. I hear it has (a couple) walleye and repectable bass fishing, some decent crappie. I hope that people treat it with respect.

and hipster, some of your comments are great, however I would refrain from comparing a native predator to a fisherman. the boat fee idea however, like salmonid said, I would pay a fee for nice facilities.


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## TeamPlaker

I wish this topic (ryanhipsher's) had been posted under it's own thread because I think there are anglers out there, myself included, who have an opinion on the topic but choose not to post it to avoid taking away from Bassman's original thread.

That being said... I have heard of Armco Park, I'll have to take some time and check it out one of these days now that it's public water.


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## ryanhipsher

define a slob fisherman. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to start off by saying that I am not defending or trying to offend anybody. I like that fact that armco park is open to the public now. I do not agree with labman. I think the "slob fisherman" should be called the "slob management". It is poor management that brings our lakes down. We all have to purchase a fishing license to fish anywhere in Ohio on public waters. I feel that they should spend a little more money on our waterways that we fisherman contribute to in more than one way. The laws need to be reinforced instead being overlooked. I feel that we need a launch fee and yearly parking pass for every lake to add more money to put into the lakes. I would have no regrets paying a $20 launch fee or yearly pass(like Indiana-take a look at the lakes and parks over there) for example, you have no trash cans at cc, because they have no money to manage it. Now back to the fishing, CC, Rocky Fork, East Fork, Paint Creek, and Cowen eveyone of these lakes are excellant lakes in Ohio. They all produce good numbers of fish. Sorry for the muskie fisheman, but this is how I feel and some people will agree and disagree with me. You take a muskie that fishes 24/7 365 days a year, or you take your average fisherman that fishes maybe twice a week for eight hours. you do that math on who catches more fish. I am a witness to this, I have caught numerous crappie and bass with muskie blows. I have pictures to prove it. I have been reeling in 12 inch fish, more than once, and have had them ripped off my hook. But this is the way nature manges the fisheries, don't get me wrong we all need to do our part catch and release. Rocky Fork, in my opinion, is one of the best bass fishing lakes in southwest ohio. It produces good crappie, it produces excellant largemouth, but take a look at the water, you have weeds that the sailboaters are complaining about that they want removed. What's going to happen when you remove these weeds? Your spawning fish that hatches will have no more hiding spots because weeds make the best hiding spots for the fry fish. Where they can grow up and fend for themselves. Take CC, it started out in 2005 with weeds and zebra muscles it was the best year for bass fishing. fish could hide and muskies could live happily. Alot of people complained about the zebra muscles but they kept the water clear and clean. this is hear say, but they said they sprayed for weeds and the muscles how true this is I don't know. it could have been the floods that killed the weed growth from the past few years. and poor spawning from the bass. not only at this lake but all other lakes. So I feel if the state would put a number limit and a size limit on the crappie then we wouldn't have the so-called "slob fisherman" taking home 100 fish for one day all considered undersized. I am am not a muskie fisherman, so I am not sure what the size limit is but the bass I think are regulated just fine throughout the state. And those who are keeping under the size limit will eventually get caught. I have have so much to say and not enough page to say it on. I will leave it at that. As you all know I have my own website, to view some of the nicest fish produced out of these lakes check the pics out. I am making a new voting poll on my site about a launch pass in the state of ohio. If you feel that a $20 yearly boating pass is reasonable, vote for it or against it. Just google ryan hipsher. Thanks! See you on the water!


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## jacmec

Your just reading a fishing a report then BAM it has to go this way. First off I want to say that the ethics of C&R are a good discussion. I got into this once before and it prompted me to read and become educated and has changed the way I fish. But lets examine what your really accomplishing by starting this. 
1. Most experienced fishermen are set in their ways when it comes to C&R. So why argue on here. I think my experience is not the norm, most people will not change. 

2. Spend your energy getting OGF to make the forums private with out prior registration. And eliminate non posters. This will cut down on people crowding the hot spots. 

3. You are only reaching a small audience by arguing this on here. If you want to get to the masses hand out pamphlets on C&R, take out a ad in your paper, get on the news or radio. Its too flip'en easy to feel so strongly about something but try to fix it by sitting in front of your monitor.

So yes I can agree with some of what you are saying but if you feel so strongly about it, take it off the net (and the people that have been there done that) and too the people. As for the muskie comments, start a new thread on that. I want to see where it goes (really I just want to know what Jay has bottled up ).


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## TeamPlaker

Kudos to you for putting this out for debate. No disrespect intended in my comments to ryanhipsher or anyone for that matter.
I offer no opinion on launch fees, but I do not fish from a boat. I don't it's fair that I should have an opinion on that because of that fact.
Lou made a good point in the other topic that comparing apex predators like muskie to fisherman isn't a fair comparison and I couldn't agree more. Muskie are a native species that fell into trouble when we began commercializing and damming the waters where they lived naturally and bred. They eat fish because that's how they survive, we all know this. A fisherman has plenty of other options... I've never seen a muskie at the drive thru at Burger King. I don't believe they damage other gamefish populations since they primarily feed on baitfish like suckers, and shad. Yeah they'll eat gamefish and compete for forage but wouldn't that control the stunting process? Personally, if I were a bass fisherman, I'd rather catch one 5 pound bass than five 1 pound bass. My two cents there.
Maybe I am not following the topic but how does a boat launch fee or yearly pass help eliminate people who are being referred to as "slob fisherman"? Most of the guys who leave garbage everywhere and keep everything they catch without regard to size and limits are fishing from the bank... I know because I'm right there witnessing it. Unless the point you're making is the increase in profits would help increase manpower for wildlife officers who enforce the laws... then I would agree. It's a shame that education can't solve it. I remember in high school having to take a "hunter education course". I have never been hunting but it was required for a class. I don't even know that it is (or was) required to get a hunting license. Too bad there isn't a "fishing education course" that would be required to get your fishing license. Education could be more effective than fees. I was lucky enough to have a father who taught me to respect the water and the fish. That's where my fishing education came from but I have seen fathers with their children fishing and throwing everything in "the bucket" that comes off the hook.
Personally, I don't eat fish so I throw everything back. My son loves fish and asks me all the time to bring one home. He told me he wants to eat a muskie, when I explained to him the rareity of the catch and why we respect them he decided he wants to eat a sauger instead.  I'm sure there's a sense of primative pride associated with catching something ourselves and eating it and if I ever catch a cow on my heavy action I might have a rib eye and understand that. Anyhow, as long as it's within the legal limits, such is life. If you want to solve that, propose stricter limits instead of fees.... I'll be the first to sign your petition. It sure looks like the state will listen... I think the muskie club guys got the state to drop the muskie limit from 2 to 1 effective this year.
Long winded, yeah... but my 2 cents are expensive.


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## fishdealer04

I am glad that they opened up another park here in SW Ohio. I plan to run up that way sometime to check it out. It will probably be very crowded for awhile since it just opened up and everyone is trying to check it out, but it will probably taper off some.


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## fishdealer04

I think that fisherman have a huge impact on our lakes/parks. I think management has a large part too, but each fisherman has more of a part. Why is there garbage in or around our lakes? You say that CC has no trash cans- yes because there is no money, but why is it so hard for someone to put there trash in their bucket or their pocket and take it home and throw it away. Thats what I do. Is it that hard? Yeah there are the people that keep too many fish or undersized fish, but think of how many bodies of water there are to fish in the state and how many people are fishing them, and then you see that there are only a few rangers/wardens. They can't keep up. They cant hire anymore since there is no money. Its up to the fisherman to know whats right and whats wrong. I think that most people know what is and what is not, but there are always that handful that don't.

Muskies are a great fish species to fish for. I fish for them, and I fish for just about every other species that swims. Muskie eat primarily baitfish like Team Plaker said. They are not a threat to any other speicies- if they were they would not be stocked in our waters. The ones that are naturally bodies of water have lived there for years with many other species just fine. Why are they ripping that bass off your hook? Simple they think its a wounded fish and its and easy meal for them...why put forth more effort than is needed to catch its dinner? That and you are stating that a muskie eats everyday, 24 hours a day, which is not true.

I am all for tighter limits and regulations. I agree with boat launch fees if those proceeds actually go back into making that park better. I keep my fair of fish to eat, I enjoy eating fish, but I also am avid at C&R as well.


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## FSHN ROD

Dear Team Plaker, Greetings

I will like at this point to add my 2 cents (well ok maybe about $5.00) on the native predator you are referring to as the muskellunge (Esox masquinongy), also known as a muskelunge, muscallonge, or maskinonge (and often abbreviated "muskie" or "musky"), Can you please tell me (in a simple yes or no answer) 
1. Were these (esox masquinongy) "native" to Ceaser Creek or any other "dammed up" body of water in Ohio? 

2.Were these fish adapted and did they learn survival instincts to be able to share a enviroment with such a fish?

My dad walked mile after mile in the rock beds of Ceaser Creek NOTICE I SAY CEASER "CREEK"! There were no musky in this creek before the Army Corp of Engineers dammed it up in 1975. He smallmouthed and largemouth fished, they were there along w/ the crappie,bluegill,carp,catfish,shad,etc. No 30 - 40 inch musky swimming through this creek in 1973 or anytime after that until Someone who probably Graduated at Hocking said "Hey why dont we overrun Ceaser Creek (One of the toughest fisheries in this state) w/ thousands of Musky ? It didnt work on Cowan,it didnt work on Rocky (they put them in there just to let them go over the dam) Instead of seeing if this would work on CC they just kept putting them in and now look what we have.
You catch 3lbr's there and they have hunks taken out of them ! These fish dont eat suckers ! Fish out of a boat I will personally invite you, Suckers are a bottom feeding species these musky lay under laydowns you can watch them on these sunny days they sit there and ambush anything and everything that swims. These fish are not used to that.Think about it like this You have never seen a musky in the dRive through at burger King, Right ? I have never seen a musky in CC until they were UNATUREALLY introduced there. You say they are "native" correct? native meaning( adjective)
being the place or environment in which a person was born or a thing came into being, born in a particular place or country. This does not apply to CC there are not "NATIVE" Musky here!

3.Do you think they are being managed correctly on CC? ( Im trying to help this cause )

As for the definition of a slob fisherman ! That is the little illegal imigrant that is sitting on one of the boat ramps keeping everything that he catches be it a 5 inch bass or a 40 inch musky. You wont see this on the banks of Brookville Lake in Ind. where you have to pay a launch fee to access the boat ramp witch in turn pays the wildlife officer who patrol that lake so well. Ohio is to worried about sitting a woman in a nice looking ford truck at the boat ramp all day to make sure you have your life vest and fire exstinguisher. You wont hear her one time though, By the way since all those Rods and reels are in your boat did you take the time to buy your fishing license this year?

This state does nothing for its lakes,rivers,streams etc.There is more done (thankfully) by vollunteers! 
By the way I mean no disrespect either But fish and wildlife management just is not done correctly here. And BTW Bass being ripped off the hook because it is a easy meal..........Well Im just glad these things taste good. 
Because I will as a loyal bass fisherman do my part to help these bass (who had no choice in weather or not a outside predator came into there territory only to eat them and injure them)get some sort of justice.


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## FSHN ROD

Dont you think w/ a launch fee there would be more money to go to the rangers/wardens? That money could and should only be spent on the lake it collects from. Hello? Mcfly? Cant even take a pee w/out being hit on from a wierd-O @ the public restroom, wont see that in Indy....NOPE SURE FLIPPIN WONT! What does actually my fishing license fee go towards? You would think w/ the fees like they are i would not have to carry my flippin trash in my pocket !


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## fishdealer04

FSHN Rod-
I think you bring up some good points and points I disagree with. I have yet to catch a muskie out of CC. I have caught plenty of LM, SM, and other species (bluegill, crappie, etc...) out of there. So in my mind there is not problem with the muskie being in there.

You talk about an outside predator coming in and harming your precious bass. The human is at the top of the predator list. You are an outside predator coming into their world throwing a lure with treble hooks or a single hook whatever you are using, to trick the fish into biting; and then with a sharp jerking motion driving that sharp pointed piece of metal into the fish's mouth our skull and you are talking about a muskie coming in and hurting your bass?

Darwins law, survival of the fittest. 

If you are so fond of fishing in Indiana and how good they treat their lakes and rivers then go fish there, I dont think anyone is forcing you to fish CC or any other Ohio water ways.

Yes if their were launch fees or park fees that money should go to the lake where its taken, and in theory your right that, it should go back to make the park/lake better. I agree with you on the so called wildlife officials checking for life preservers and what not and not checking licenses or what fish you have in your cooler and if they are of legal size/within creel limits. There are a lot of improvements to be made and there always will be no matter where you fish.


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## TeamPlaker

FSHN ROD said:


> Dear Team Plaker, Greetings
> By the way I mean no disrespect either But fish and wildlife management just is not done correctly here. And BTW Bass being ripped off the hook because it is a easy meal..........Well Im just glad these things taste good.
> Because I will as a loyal bass fisherman do my part to help these bass (who had no choice in weather or not a outside predator came into there territory only to eat them and injure them)get some sort of justice.


Let the games begin, I guess. I will not tell you a simple "yes" or "no" answer because I am being misquoted for one, for another it's not that simply defined.

Never in my post did I say muskie naturally lived in CC before, during, or after it was a lake. I said they are a native species to OHIO and their natural ground was taken away by man. If that is not fact, I wonder why the EPA has done studies (at least one that I read) in a local creek on the impact of what they referred to as a "threatened species" in that area. If you want to focus on Caesar Creek, that's fine, let's make it pure then... kill all the muskie, saugeye, walleye, and perch in the lake and we can have YET ANOTHER place in Ohio to fish for nothing more than bass, bluegill, crappie, and catfish. I'm sorry to say because I know the fuss I will hear over the comment... but I'd rather fish for something different that I can't walk down the road and find in a drainage ditch filled with water.
They are not native to Caesar Creek, okay. I think the DNR is looking for bodies of water to support them to draw fishing interest for one, for another to control the outrageous shad populations in some of our lakes. Fishing interest equals more profit. Profit leads to new jobs for wildlife officers and more.
Bass look for an easy meal too. All fish do, calories gained vs. calories expended is an instinct embedded in their DNA. I recall a time fishing with my father at Miami Whitewater when I was a kid. I hooked a bluegill on my ultralight rod. I got it up close to the boat... then WHAM! A largemouth came out of nowhere and grabbed him. The line snapped for whatever reason, he may have drug me under a branch or I was reeling against the drag, whatever. I'm just glad my mentality then as a child who focused my efforts on bluegill wasn't to eliminate all bass from the lake in order to be able to catch more bluegill.
I assume the "justice" you refer to would be killing any muskie you catch while bass fishing. I've seen enough pictures and heard enough stories to know some bass guys do that. I'm just glad that muskie guys don't share that mentality and kill all bass that they catch... because I, personally, have caught more bass while muskie fishing than muskie while bass fishing. So, as for your personal invite to fish from a boat, I'll take a raincheck.


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## big_b16

ryanhipsher said:


> I am am not a muskie fisherman, so I am not sure what the size limit is but the bass I think are regulated just fine throughout the state.


Unfortunately, there isn't one. The bass and crappie are more protected than the muskies. 

As for ARMCO park, I have no doubt it will be trashed in the near future. I haven't seen a public park with a fishing pond that isn't littered with trash come warm weather. In the off season it isn't as bad, because those who are fishermen take care of the environment. I usually see the drunks who come out to sit on the bank and drink beer all day and leave their trash right in it's spot. I've mouthed at several jerks that have left stuff within feet of a trash barrel, but they still didn't pick up their trash. Others thought I was nuts saying anything, but they were drunk and I wouldn't have a problem helping them try and swim. I just wish we could have someone come around 2-3 times a week and check licenses. I know that's a pipe dream...much more important stuff to be doing, I understand that. It might run off the riff raff.


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## FSHN ROD

I do go to Indy to fish as well as Ky,Tenn,Etc. on a regular basis, In fact I will be there fishing a national championship in about 3 weeks .And im not worried about hurting "my precious bass" as much as killing the ones that are left Because I have caught musky there and I can assure you that this lake is ate up w/ them if you have not caught or seen a musky in this lake you obviously do not fish it that often.
I have fished Cave run and I maybe wrong but dont they say thats the musky capital of the south? I would be willing to bet the strike ratio of a musky on CC is dbl that of one at Cave Run. 
Now dont get me wrong they are a ball to hook and catch and a whole lot of adrenalin gets pumping when I hook them. But as anglers we all like to practiced C&R remember folks C&R the O so important part of fishing that we all did to help our sport be where it is today. 
Well FISHDEALER04............. I have practiced along w/ all my friends ( the appx. 150 bassfisherman who fish tue. night tourny's on CC) C&R on this lake to try to help a dwindling LM bass species. Only to have these musky introduced to make all our efforts seem worthless.They dont practice C&R a musky's C&R involves catch(eating) and release ( blowing it out its rectum)
I fish this lake alot I mean alot and have since I was 8 years old and I have never ever seen this lake with such a low Bass population as what it has now. This could not have been a good move, not saying it should not have been done just not in the numbers that they released. They were unsure they would survive or how many would survive and now they learn that almost 90% of the released fish all survived. and it is alarming numbers.
Why not now start intrducing some largemouth back to this body of water to try and help it out? The 15 inch limit means nothing when you have the musky eating them in the 5- 15 inch size.

And BTW yes the human is at the top of the predator list, I agree. But would you like for one of these Taliban members to come here from Iraq to your neighborhood and start killing people (rember he is human )in a place where you have lived so long and adapted to him not being there only to have him come and start wiping out your town. I know that is far fetched but it is the exact same principal ( The Iraqi came as a foreiner to your neighborhood as did the musky to CC. Let nature be nature.They werent there for a reason who are we as humans to say they should be there . I have no problem of hooking up my boat and driving to lake Erie to fish their wonderfull smallmouth fishery or to the Ohio river to striper and saugye fish or to Kentucky Lake to fish for their two and a half pound crappie just like if I did take the notion to catch a musky I would have no problem going to Cave Run or Minn. etc. What rev. are you going to bring to CC from musky? It ruined this lake that was already bad to start.


> I'm sorry to say because I know the fuss I will hear over the comment... but I'd rather fish for something different that I can't walk down the road and find in a drainage ditch filled with water.


Classy :Banane37: This is what far to many know more about than fish/wildlife mangement
And to quote the great Forrest Gump "THATS ALL I GOT TO SAY BOUT DAT"
:C:C:C:C:C:C:
And No I would never kill the fish just because, I play by the rules and dont break the law!


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## FSHN ROD

> You talk about an outside predator coming in and harming your precious bass. The human is at the top of the predator list. You are an outside predator coming into their world throwing a lure with treble hooks or a single hook whatever you are using, to trick the fish into biting; and then with a sharp jerking motion driving that sharp pointed piece of metal into the fish's mouth our skull and you are talking about a muskie coming in and hurting your bass?


Are you serious? That fish you are holding in your avatar probably just said F it and jumped in your boat right ?
Come on :bananalama:


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## riverKing

I am going to try and stay out of most of this but I must clear somthing up, ok a few things
FSHN ROD, muskie ARE NATIVE to ceasars creek, yes the creek, they were there for many thousands of years until we destroyed the spawning habitat and all but whiped them out of the lmr basin. and furthermore, the ones being stocked are(this is what they told me at kinkaid) ohio river strain ski's so they are even the same strain as the ones that once thrived there.
as for the ski's eating bass, and I am not a esox angler, I am just a huge nerd. the only study I have ever found on a predator that negatively effected bass populations in lakes showed that largemouth eat enough smallmouth fry to be detrimental in certain conditions. there has never been any findings that remotely point of muskies targeting black bass as prey. they really do live on the most common "baitfish" shad, suckers, redhorse and carp. now, as a predator they will take advanged of a stuggling prey item(meaning anything, that any predator can fit in its mouth). but muskie are not the only fish that will eat somthing off of you line. personally I have had trout, catfish, black basses, pike, and several saltwater species take hooked fish, I even had a large green sunfish eat a baby bass I was reeling in. you know just throwing that out there.
what I am saying is, you have no REAL argument stating that muskie in cc are negatively effecting the largemouth population, find some and then present it.
other parts of your management arguments I can totally agree with

ok proceed with the argument, I have my popcorn(really I am eating some now)


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## FSHN ROD

> Unfortunately, there isn't one. The bass and crappie are more protected than the muskies.


I dont agree w/ that either if they are going to take our money to put them in there then they should do their part to protect them.
I dont disagree w/ them being there just not the way they did it. I cant wait till my 7 year old daughter hooks one.


> I am am not a muskie fisherman, so I am not sure what the size limit is but the bass I think are regulated just fine throughout the state.


I agree w/ that as well but CC needs help w/ The bass population just as much as it needed musky. You scratch my back i will scratch yours.


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## fisharder

If a park pass was sold for state parks the state would get the money and the parks would still get the dry tit. Launch fees at state parks would go to the same place. Where as a park fees and launch fees might have the effect of reduced usage and abuses so would better inforcement.


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## big_b16

FSHN ROD said:


> I will like at this point to add my 2 cents (well ok maybe about $5.00) on the native predator you are referring to as the muskellunge (Esox masquinongy), also known as a muskelunge, muscallonge, or maskinonge (and often abbreviated "muskie" or "musky")


Thanks Wikipedia



FSHN ROD said:


> 1. Were these (esox masquinongy) "native" to Ceaser Creek or any other "dammed up" body of water in Ohio?


What species are native to a dammed up body of water? Okay, semantics, but I believe muskies are native to the Ohio river and it's tributaries (looking at a map...the LMR and Caesars Creek fit in).



FSHN ROD said:


> 2.Were these fish adapted and did they learn survival instincts to be able to share a enviroment with such a fish?


Not sure of the subject species...which species does "fish" refer to. Regardless, from birth, what species will destroy most bass fry as they are on the beds? I'd pose bluegill. Pull a male LMB off a bed and see which species comes in and eats a large percentage of the fry (I'm willing to suggest it isn't a muskie...or saugeye which are also stocked)



FSHN ROD said:


> My dad walked mile after mile in the rock beds of Ceaser Creek NOTICE I SAY CEASER "CREEK"! There were no musky in this creek before the Army Corp of Engineers dammed it up in 1975.


You cannot possibly make that assessment based on heresay of your dad and his lifelong exploits of walking "CEASER (sic) CREEK".



FSHN ROD said:


> You catch 3lbr's there and they have hunks taken out of them !


Show me a pic, I've caught hundreds of bass out of CC and have yet to see one with a hunk taken out of it. I wonder how many muskies have had bite marks on them. Ewe, think of the canibalism, only kill the canibal muskies then we'd all be happy.



FSHN ROD said:


> These fish dont eat suckers !


Again, how can you possibly say this? Do you know someone who's been bitten? I'm sorry, I couldn't help but throw that in. Must admit...that right there was funny, I don't care who you are.



FSHN ROD said:


> These fish are not used to that.


There aren't any bass in CC that haven't had ample time (11 yrs) to become accustomed to muskies being in the food chain. Based on an average live of 16yrs for a LMB. Those born after 1998 know nothing else. 



FSHN ROD said:


> 3.Do you think they are being managed correctly on CC? ( Im trying to help this cause )


No, there is no size limit. But that's a personal opinion. The State feels muskie are a give and take species...the State gives, and some people take. If you trying to help the cause is because you want us to think you're catching them and putting them on the dinner table. Based on your comments, I don't think the bass or the muskies are in danger.



FSHN ROD said:


> As for the definition of a slob fisherman ! That is the little illegal imigrant that is sitting on one of the boat ramps keeping everything that he catches be it a 5 inch bass or a 40 inch musky.


Completely agree. Or someone who has taken part in wanton waste of a gamefish. 



FSHN ROD said:


> And BTW Bass being ripped off the hook because it is a easy meal..........Well Im just glad these things taste good.
> Because I will as a loyal bass fisherman do my part to help these bass (who had no choice in weather or not a outside predator came into there territory only to eat them and injure them)get some sort of justice.


Obviously you're trying to get a rouse. In your outstanding first post...welcome to the site...will hate to see you leave.


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## FSHN ROD

BTW Can you sell on here anywhere I have a Cpl musky baits I would like to sell to someone who can use them.


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## misfit

fshn rod,check out the market place forum.it's strictly for buy/sell/swap.just post your items there in a new thread,with prices.


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## FSHN ROD

> Based on your comments, I don't think the bass or the muskies are in danger.


 Hey Im not a Pro dont make my living from fishing, But are you up to a challenge? I will be on Indian lake fishing the Ice Breaker this weekend after that, name the lake! Its not like im on here bragging about all the fish I can catch and boy I have ya'lls panties in a wad. I have watched and learned alot from the musky guys on the lake and I can say I think there are more musky caught on accident buy bass fisherman than buy guys fishing for musky. I think some of them would benefit by throwing smaller baits. We catch alot of these things buy accident on 1/8th and 3/8th spinnerbaits. But alot of these guys are throwing 12 inch baits and these musky have got to detect that pressure as does the bass. Its just like that dont know how many of these are really living in this lake and how well they are doing it isnt that big you know. I dont kill them and I dont eat them I turn them lose I dont even eat crappie I just like the fact of trying to outsmart the fish.


> Obviously you're trying to get a rouse. In your outstanding first post...welcome to the site...will hate to see you leave.


 You see me alot more than you think,Im not goin any where. GEEZ my dang lic. plate # is in my avatar.


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## Hillbilly910

I fished armco once couple years ago, when it was private(buddy's kin had a pass), and i was not impressed, destroyed the bluegills, however a big one was4 inches. Im sure there were/are good fish in there, i just never got a chance to find them.

Im not gonna claim to "not be musky fishermen" cause i fish for what bites, and whats available. Primarily a crappie and saugeye fishermen at CC. We have only had one incedent with a musky(chomped a bluegill off my buddies rod, absolutely one of the top 10 funniest things i have ever seen, regardless where ya stand on musky and bass quarrel! he almost jumped out of the boat, thought it was an alligator!!!), and we have seen a few. We have not however caught disfigured bass or crappie, and we do catch our fair share and then some of both. We have never caught a large muskie(have caught some small ones, 1lb size), and we have tried on several occasions. Probably not as hard as we should to actually hope to be successful, but we tried none the less.
I cant see on the lake where anybody is having trouble keeping muskies off of bass lures, im sure there are a plenty of them toothy monsters there, but they aint just jumping at anything that moves.

I live very near brookville lake, and as far as the litter comparison, im sorry but CC is twice as clean as brookville, on the actual lake or the shore line. I fished and hunted and trapped and hiked and other things on that lake(brookville) and the surrouding property for over 10 years, count them 10 years, and NEVER EVEN SAW A C/O. There are 2 new C/O's this year, and i have been checked at the current count 4 times, twice hunting, twice fishing. I think the new blood has a drive to do there job(for which i am extremely grateful). But the launch pass has been around for years, so its not the raise in funds that caused these guys to be out checking. And by the way, 90% of brookville lake and park is "carry out your trash" no cans, again, the launch pass eveidently didnt cover that.

To summarise, i would have no problem paying a launch pass for ohio, i dont however see it as the miracle cure for the problems, which are inherntly, and to be frank, human nature. You do realise the people who leave bait tubs and trash at the lake shore, also litter along the roadsides, and in your front yards.
A slob fishermen in some eyes, is simpling doing what he is legally aloud in others eyes. This post could(and might) go on till the end of time.
So i tell ya what im gonna do about it...Imma go fishing in the morning

:G


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## FSHN ROD

misfit said:


> fshn rod,check out the market place forum.it's strictly for buy/sell/swap.just post your items there in a new thread,with prices.


Thanks misfit


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## Ol'Bassman

NO COMMENT! 
________
Evelines


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## TeamPlaker

Strange. This topic was moved/started elsewhere, then moved back?
It has been an interesting argument, learned a lot from it. Mainly that human beings will always be set in their ways and most are stubborn in ADAPTING to changes in their lakes and rivers.  No hard feelings, ROD, I'll wave to you from the shores of CC while I'm fishing for muskie and catching those dang bass that maliciously feed on my muskie lures.


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## USAF_TRobertson

I am heading up there around 5PM - I'll let everyone know if I have any luck and how crowded it is. Might even rent a boat for a few hours...


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## USAF_TRobertson

Got skunked at Armco... walked the banks near the boat dock for two hours and only saw one 14 inch bass get caugh (and unforunately kept) on a night crawler. Few guys on boats said they caught a couple crappie. Looks to be more promising if renting a boat. I ran into another guy who said the best fishing in the area by far is at LMR.


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## fishdealer04

FSHN ROD said:


> Are you serious? That fish you are holding in your avatar probably just said F it and jumped in your boat right ?
> Come on :bananalama:


Not once did I say I was against fishing, I know what I am doing when I catch a fish, picture was taken and that fish was released. I was only making a point that you are inflicting harm onto the fish, just as any other fish would do to it.

I dont fish CC a lot, but when I do I catch a large amount of bass all in the 12 inch range biggest being around 22 inches. I have not caught a muskie in there. So maybe I should switch and start using smaller lures or switch my tactics, I dunno. I don't mind catching bass, I would much rather catch a muskie though any day of the week.

I know you are a bass guy and would rather catch bass, and I am completley fine with that, but the theory that the muskie is the reason that CC has gone downhill is rediculous. There are so many other factors that are involved. For instance fishing pressure, people keeping the bass, etc... You said it yourself every Tuesday night you and your 150 other friends are fishing a tourney there, that is a lot of pressure put on that lake, plus you consider how many people go there on the weekends to fish and to play around in there pleasure craft.


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## riverKing

disapointing, I had more popcorn ready and everything, what happend.

usfa, there are no fish in the lmr, dont believe whoever told you that!


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## FSHN ROD

Fishdealer, I just think it is strange how about this time this lake started dwindling the way it did. 10 years ago you could come to the scales in a 3-4 our tourny and it would take 10-12 lbs to win and that ( dont hold me to 10 years but appx.) was w/ a 12 inch limit. Now it takes maybe 4-5 and have seen many tournys where you have 1 two pound fish winning 1st 2nd 3rd and big bass. out of a field of 50 boats. Why spray the weeds awesome hiding structure for not only bass to feed but to hide and get away. This lake was really starting to turn on when the salad was growing good in it.We have some very good fisherman in this state and alot of them that win in other lakes all over this state as well as others are from CC. Kentucky Lake Mid-west sportsman championship 2 years in a row both teams were qualifiers from CC.Ryan Hipsher he was high scoring points champ 2 yrs on it. And does very well in competitions in other states. It is a very very hard lake to fish and be constant on and I spend a whole lot of time on it and I would be willing to bet the 225 mercury hanging on the back of my boat that the musky OR the killing of those weeds has had a very neg. impact on the bass fishing in this lake. Now having said that the crappie fishing has gotten better and I was told by A very good ODNR friend that the musky were added to this lake to help control the over population of 6-8 inch white crappie (true i dont know) if so I would say that worked. But how many did they add to this lake and for how many years? I dont think they lost any of those fingerlings.As for you catching alot of 12 inch fish, Its a very good Ky.(spot)bass lake used to you could pull up to one laydown and catch 12,13 inch spots till you got tired. Cant no more (not like then anyway) maybe this lake would benefit going bake to 12 inch limit. Indian is a great lake 12 inch limit...Rocky, heck Ryan Hipsher catches TOADS on it consistantly and it is a 12 inch limit also. And for the record I keep no fish(musky,bass,cats,carp,) rarley some crappie.


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## riverKing

there is no truth to muskie being stocked in a lake to control any type of fish, especially a sportfish. frankly I doubt someone in the dnr told you that. you may have misunderstood them saying that about saugeye because a study showed them to be good for controling some 2-3in crappie.
ten years ago did cc have multiple tournies launching every weekend of the spring summer and fall? what about the boat traffic, there are alot of factors that are not covered by muskie or poor management


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## big_b16

The bass have probably moved off to different structure. With the parade of boats pounding the same logs on the shoreline and in the few shallower coves, they have most likely moved to deeper structure. I've heard lots of folks say they can't catch bass like they used to...in the same spots they're fishing. Duh, you throw enough lures at them, they'll move to stop being pressured.


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## FSHN ROD

I like to think that I am pretty adaptable to different conditions be it flipping a foot or less of water,spinnerbaiting dirty water,buzzin,Carolina Riggin,or throwing a deep crankbait over a brushpile just on the inside bend of a major creek channel bend. Spent $1,300 on a lcx28chd to do exactly what you are talking about big_b16 and you are 100% right. But I have been doing that for years wherever I fish, them fish are always less pressured and feel safer. I (we) spend alot of time on the water and am always paying att. to what is going on and keeping a mental record of that. I can only talk about what I see and feel from my own personal exp,just like most everyone in here I would assume.

So w/ that being said.......... LETS PARTY !!! THIS PLACE IS MORE FUN THAN EATIN DIRT !!!:Banane40::Banane17::bananapowerslide:


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## tommy454

Checked out Armco Park for an hour or so tonight. Skunked and didn't see anyone catch anything. I walked around a bit to check it out. Was there about 7-8 years ago. Nice looking lake, boat rental seems very resonable compared to other places. $20 all day for a boat and trolling motor.Think I paid around 20 bucks for just a rowboat at Sharonwoods last year. 8" m n. on the crappies and 30 limit. Posted limits on LMB,SMB, and eyes as well, but don't remeber them exaclty, was chased off by the rain around 7:15


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## spfldbassguy

where is armco park located at?i live in springfield and have never heard of it but am always willing to try new waters.


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## cantsleep

Armco Park is on SR 741 outside of Middletown. Sort of between Midd/Monroe and Lebanon, north of SR 63.


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## FSHNERIE

Stocked with Walleye...


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## USAF_TRobertson

Rented a boat for three hours yesterday afternoon - caught nothing. Another guy out in a bass boat said he had been catching a lot of crappie. I was out looking for bass near the shores. Another guy in a bass boat said he only caught one bass all day. Didn't see anything being caught from the shore.


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## spfldbassguy

thanks for the location.how many acres is it and is there a horsepower restriction?i got a kayak but don't wanna get around folks with big ol' engines in their boats.


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## USAF_TRobertson

I think its 125 acres. Electric motors only. You'll be fine with a kayak.


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## buzzing byrd

It will be interesting to see how the park does. I know the parks supervisor and he has done a great job in my opinion on the rest of the parks in Warren county. He is a dedicated professional and is very approachable. Maybe I'll print this forum for his review so he can keep the slob fisherman and hillbilly's out of the lake. Wait, I can't do that I am a hillbilly.


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