# What happened to drill baby drill?



## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

A lot of people were pushing the idea that we need to drill more oil so we would become less dependent on foreign oil and make oil cheaper. What happened ? We are fast becoming the worlds largest oil producer and using less foreign oil now than any other time since 1991. So why is gasoline costing us almost $4 a gallon now? Do people honestly think the oil companies want to drill more oil so they can sell it cheaper?


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## big spurs 111 (Jun 4, 2013)

we send most of it over seas .


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

Don't you remember. We in this country voted for 
TAX BABY TAX AND SPEND BABY SPEND! 

Hope you can leave a lot of money to your grandkids.

Rickerd


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

It was stopped by NO BABY NO!


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Think the "GREED is GOOD..." has something to do with it...


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## Dave_E (Apr 6, 2004)

Big money U.S. oil will always be big money U.S. oil.

They care nothing for the people. 

Same type that send jobs overseas so their corporate profit margins get huge.


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## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

big spurs 111 said:


> we send most of it over seas .


This. Google it. The numbers will shock you. I don't remember them right off hand, but it's something like we are producing 13% more oil now than we were several years ago. Oil production in the US Is at an all time high right now, yet the gas prices continue to rise. Most of it is going over seas. It's complete BS. This country doesn't have a money problem, it has a spending problem.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

robertj298 said:


> A lot of people were pushing the idea that we need to drill more oil so we would become less dependent on foreign oil and make oil cheaper. What happened ? We are fast becoming the worlds largest oil producer and using less foreign oil now than any other time since 1991. So why is gasoline costing us almost $4 a gallon now? Do people honestly think the oil companies want to drill more oil so they can sell it cheaper?


Gas price is Ohio right now are impacted by the two closest refiners being shut down or running at partail capacity. Gas prices in the rest of the USA are fine.


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## Wmbuckeye557 (Apr 14, 2012)

The lack of refineries is a big issue. The current state of the EPA will prevent any more being built.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

Inflation. Your dollar buys you jack squat. Get used to it.

Sincerely,
Your overlords


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

China is buying it.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

we ran out.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

The world will continue to end for about 2 weeks and we'll be back down .20 and everyone will be happy happy happy once again! Don't you guys get sick of having the exact same discussions over and over!?! Aye aye aye. It's the free market baby! Inflation... Lol!


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

$3.22 Orlando FL
$3.09 Atlanta GA
$3.47 Omaha NE
$3.35 Boston MA
$3.11 Houston TX
$3.29 Pittsburg PA

Looks like an Ohio problem to me...


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Also we have high taxes. Ohio has some of the best roads in the country.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

Snakecharmer said:


> Gas price is Ohio right now are impacted by the two closest refiners being shut down or running at partail capacity. Gas prices in the rest of the USA are fine.


 Not FINE by me


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Bucket Mouth said:


> Inflation. Your dollar buys you jack squat. Get used to it.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Your overlords


It's actually deflation. The dollars value is based on GDP.... the GDP isn't growing as fast as money is being printed so the value of the dollar goes down. The last I checked (a few months ago) the American dollar and the Canadian dollar were virtually tied in value.


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bassbme said:


> It's actually deflation. The dollars value is based on GDP.... the GDP isn't growing as fast as money is being printed so the value of the dollar goes down. The last I checked (a few months ago) the American dollar and the Canadian dollar were virtually tied in value.


The US dollar and Canadian Dollar have been virtually tied for a number of years . Its not something new.


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## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

ress said:


> Also we have high taxes. Ohio has some of the best roads in the country.


Ha ha. You need to come drive through Akron friend.


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Snakecharmer said:


> $3.22 Orlando FL
> $3.09 Atlanta GA
> $3.47 Omaha NE
> $3.35 Boston MA
> ...


Just returned from Eagle River, WI. Price was just short of $4 across central IL & everywhere in WI.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

robertj298 said:


> The US dollar and Canadian Dollar have been virtually tied for a number of years . Its not something new.


I didn't say it was something new, did I? ..... Nope, sure didn't


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bassbme said:


> I didn't say it was something new, did I? ..... Nope, sure didn't


Then how does that relate in the recent rise in gas prices?


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

robertj298 said:


> Then how does that relate in the recent rise in gas prices?


Since the oil companies that are producing all this oil you're talking about, pay their workers, and buy their equipment with U.S. dollars .....The devaluation of the dollar has a lot more to do with gasoline prices than your statement that the U.S. "is fast becoming the worlds largest oil producer."

But you can blame it all on the oil companies if you want to. Enjoy the rest of your day.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

Drill baby drill leads directly to sell baby sell. We will never pump our way to cheap gas because it's a world market, and if it's cheap here, the world will buy it. We can pump ourselves dry for a few bucks today, and leave little or nothing here for future generations. 

Look to the 1880s gas boom where they blew their reserves in only four years.


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

FOSR said:


> Drill baby drill leads directly to sell baby sell. We will never pump our way to cheap gas because it's a world market, and if it's cheap here, the world will buy it. We can pump ourselves dry for a few bucks today, and leave little or nothing here for future generations.
> 
> Look to the 1880s gas boom where they blew their reserves in only four years.


Exactly..So why was everyone under the assumption that if we drill more domestic oil it would lead to cheaper domestic gas prices? Thus the term drill baby drill.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

and away it goes



> The Energy Department's approval of unrestricted natural gas exports from Freeport LNG's Quintana Island, Texas, terminal ends nearly a two-year pause in its review of export applications as the administration addressed concerns that sending unlimited amounts of domestic gas abroad could harm U.S. manufacturers


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/17/usa-lng-freeport-idUSL2N0DY1C620130517


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

ress said:


> Also we have high taxes. Ohio has some of the best roads in the country.


I know you are kidding about the roads

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

Bassbme said:


> It's actually deflation. The dollars value is based on GDP.... the GDP isn't growing as fast as money is being printed so the value of the dollar goes down. The last I checked (a few months ago) the American dollar and the Canadian dollar were virtually tied in value.


I'd be interested in how you view this as deflation. What commodities that you're buying cost less than they did 1, 2, 5, 10, or 20 years ago?

The American dollar's value is dropping due to inflation. The more money there is, the less it's worth. The Fed has printed 80%+ more money that was in circulation just 5 years ago.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inflation

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deflation

EDIT - The dollar's value is not based on GDP. It's based on the perception of stability. Since it's backed by nothing, it is only as good as people perceive it to be. When the Fed runs the printing press 24/7 and is literally buying all the treasury bills that foreign countries don't buy at the auctions, thus monetizing the debt, that raises a red flag to everyone that stuff isn't right. Not to mention all the other metrics that say the US can't get it's act together.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Bucket Mouth said:


> I'd be interested in how you view this as deflation. What commodities that you're buying cost less than they did 1, 2, 5, 10, or 20 years ago?
> 
> The American dollar's value is dropping due to inflation. The more money there is, the less it's worth. The Fed has printed 80%+ more money that was in circulation just 5 years ago.
> 
> ...


First off, there are 7 indicators used to determine the value of money. 3 of them are based on the GDP, in one way or another. As far as deflation .... deflation of the value of the US dollar. Which is what my original post in this thread was clearly about. As you said in your post, and as was said in the links you provided..... the loss in the value of the US dollar is a direct result of the volume of money. You can't take a dollar and split it into 10 pieces and expect each of those 10 pieces to be equal in value to the whole dollar. 

As one of the other posters said .... oil is sold on the global market. When the value of the US dollar is high, oil prices go down. When the value of the dollar is down, oil prices go up. The prices of all products are tied to the value of the currency used to purchase that specific product. 

I'm pretty much done with this topic. If you want to know yet another reason why gas prices have gone up, look into what a couple of the other posters mentioned. Refineries. The oil companies say that gasoline costs are so high because they don't have the refining capabilities to meet demand. The US is the world's #1 exporter of petroleum based fuels.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

The "Best Roads" comes from most truck drivers that I know that criss-cross the country.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

ress said:


> The "Best Roads" comes from most truck drivers that I know that criss-cross the country.


Also according to them, we also have the best rest stops


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bassbme said:


> Since the oil companies that are producing all this oil you're talking about, pay their workers, and buy their equipment with U.S. dollars .....The devaluation of the dollar has a lot more to do with gasoline prices than your statement that the U.S. "is fast becoming the worlds largest oil producer."
> 
> But you can blame it all on the oil companies if you want to. Enjoy the rest of your day.


Yeah, so that 4.2 billion in their posted 1st quarter profits statement only spends like 4.0 billion.

http://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/press/press-releases/bp-first-quarter-2013-results.html


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Yeah, so that 4.2 billion in their posted 1st quarter profits statement only spends like 4.0 billion.
> 
> http://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/press/press-releases/bp-first-quarter-2013-results.html


4 billion in 3 months?

Sounds like a lot of money until you realize that we borrow 4.5 billion, of the 10.5 billion of our money that is spent per day, every day.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Lundy said:


> 4 billion in 3 months?
> 
> Sounds like a lot of money until you realize that we borrow 4.5 billion, of the 10.5 billion of our money that is spent per day, every day.


It's a lot of money no matter which way you shake it. Its no secret the oil companies are making money hand over fist. 

37 of the 60 highest reported profits reports of all time are oil and gas companies.

7 of the top 10 were oil and gas. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_corporate_profits_and_losses


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## Huz-yak (Jun 3, 2011)

it is all due to inflation. Thank the Federal Reserve. And it is only going to get worse. They tripled the money supply in the last 5 years.... if that money ever gets out of the banks and onto the street, you will be paying $12 per gallon


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## Huz-yak (Jun 3, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> It's a lot of money no matter which way you shake it. Its no secret the oil companies are making money hand over fist.
> 
> 37 of the 60 highest reported profits reports of all time are oil and gas companies.
> 
> ...


The profit RATE is not higher than the average company... it is the dollar amount that everyone quotes because it is incredible... but that is because it is a huge business.


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

The plain and simple truth is Greed . The more money they have the more they want. The oil companies that is. I have a novel idea. When a person signs a lease for one of these companies to drill on his land he can put anything in the lease he wants and if the company wants to drill they have to agree to it or there is no lease signed. The land owners should stipulate in the lease that no oil or gas produced on his land is to be used anywhere but this country. It would be interesting to see what the oil companies would say about this. IT's too late now though as most leases have already been signed and most of them to the advantage of the oil companies.


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## injun laker45 (Jun 28, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> $3.22 Orlando FL
> $3.09 Atlanta GA
> $3.47 Omaha NE
> $3.35 Boston MA
> ...


All still TOO high. Gas shouldn't be more than about $2/gallon IMO


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

robertj298 said:


> Exactly..So why was everyone under the assumption that if we drill more domestic oil it would lead to cheaper domestic gas prices? Thus the term drill baby drill.


have you watched natural gas prices over the past several years???? That's exactly what happened and to the point that wells are being shut in and drilling has slowed in "dry-gas" areas. Big energy companies have made strategy shifts from dry gas and are looking for wet gas and oil. this is why the Utica is being explored more now. 

The big difference is that nat. gas is largely sold in north America while oil can be readily transported to other areas....much less chance of a price crash.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

If you take the price of gas before this latest "refinery" problem, it is no more expensive then in 1918 when adjusted for inflation/falling dollar etc. I don't understand why so many accuse the oil companies of being greedy. If you take their profit percentage and compare it to many other industries, it's actually a lot lower.

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp

The REAL problem is the wages of the working man have either dropped or stagnated over the last 30 years. If wages would of kept up with inflation, I doubt we'd all be complaining about the price.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Huz-yak said:


> The profit RATE is not higher than the average company... it is the dollar amount that everyone quotes because it is incredible... but that is because it is a huge business.


Profit = profit, I'm not sure what you're implying. There are only few more profitable industries than gas and oil. 

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/industries/profits/

I'm not necessarily saying big profits has anything to do with current gas prices though. THats more on a local level i believe. The stations have more leverage than they let on. Like the earlier gentleman said, "that 1% margin is crap". Pretty much figured that. Why else would there be a gas station on every corner? Peddling snickers to pay the bills? Cigs and alcohol are state minimums, heavy discounts on other beverages.
What I am saying is the big ones can surely offer some support when times get tough. A little relief would go a long way. Maybe they do and it just goes unreported, who knows. It's a tough realization that folks are seemingly bathing in dollar bills while I'm debating on whether or not I can afford to take the boat to the lake I guess. I do realize the spikes are temporary and the difference is really only a few dollars a week so I'm not really crying foul. Seems a pretty natural reaction.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

boatnut said:


> If you take the price of gas before this latest "refinery" problem, it is no more expensive then in 1918 when adjusted for inflation/falling dollar etc. I don't understand why so many accuse the oil companies of being greedy. If you take their profit percentage and compare it to many other industries, it's actually a lot lower.
> 
> http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp
> 
> The REAL problem is the wages of the working man have either dropped or stagnated over the last 30 years. If wages would of kept up with inflation, I doubt we'd all be complaining about the price.


How does globalizing the market play into the REAL problem? Compare globalization today to 30 years ago.. How do you fix the "real" problem?


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## Huz-yak (Jun 3, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Profit = profit, I'm not sure what you're implying. There are only few more profitable industries than gas and oil.


Energy company profits are not higher than any other industry. If I own a 1 million dollar business and make $50,000 profit it is no different than owning a trillion dollar business and making $50 billion profit. But you see $50 billion and think something is not "fair" because its huge number and you imagine there is a couple of big fat slobs lighting cigars with $100 bills keeping all the profits. You do not even consider the trillion dollars worth of goods and services that were provided to everyone in the world (yourself included). 

Both companies have a 5% profit margin. One just employs a million times more people and provides a million times the benefit to society.

Real gasoline prices (not money prices) are historically very stable over the long run. The only thing that has increased the money price of gasoline is inflation. The 10% blip that you see in the spring/summer is due to demand and reduced output from refinery maintenance. They also produce a heavy version of gas in warmer months to reduce emissions = costs more but you get more bang out of it.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

LOL This is too funny. Profit records have been set by the oil companies almost every year for ....... let's say the last 10 years, right? That's because the dollar has lost value. 17% of its' value in just the last 6 years. Of course the numbers are going to go up. Percentage of profit has stayed the same, and in some cases, gone down. 

Good lord.......it's like beating your head against a brick wall. The wall never changes and the guy beating his head against it, just winds up with a headache. Thank god people like Huz-yak and boatnut are posting. They see the whole picture. 

To the two posters I mentioned by name........ I have a 100 ct. bottle of Extra Strength Excedrin with your names on it. You're going to need them if you stay with this thread much longer. As for me ........ I'm done.


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

Bassbme said:


> LOL This is too funny. Profit records have been set by the oil companies almost every year for ....... let's say the last 10 years, right? That's because the dollar has lost value. 17% of its' value in just the last 6 years. Of course the numbers are going to go up. Percentage of profit has stayed the same, and in some cases, gone down.
> 
> Good lord.......it's like beating your head against a brick wall. The wall never changes and the guy beating his head against it, just winds up with a headache. Thank god people like Huz-yak and boatnut are posting. They see the whole picture.
> 
> To the two posters I mentioned by name........ I have a 100 ct. bottle of Extra Strength Excedrin with your names on it. You're going to need them if you stay with this thread much longer. As for me ........ I'm done.


The two guys you mentioned both posted from the same perspective I gave. You agree with them, but somehow are at total odds with me.


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

***** laker45 said:


> All still TOO high. Gas shouldn't be more than about $2/gallon IMO


Start up an oil refinery/gas company and sell it for $2/gallon. I'd be all for it. You'd lose your shirt in 30 seconds, but I'd make sure I'd fill up everything I got before your shirt is gone.

BTW, what are the fundamentals that you've used to determine $2/gal is the max sale price on gas?


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Bucket Mouth said:


> The two guys you mentioned both posted from the same perspective I gave. You agree with them, but somehow are at total odds with me.


I think if you go back and re-read the post where you say I was at total odds with you, you'll see that the disagreement was in how the US dollar's value is established. Other than that, I was in agreement with you, and even stated that in my post. That entire post was not directed at you........ only the first sentence was.


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## Nikster (Mar 14, 2007)

Good gosh!

This comes up every 3 months or so. 

Don't YOU get tired of all this?

It is what it is!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ + taxes!

Federal tax, state tax, local tax. 

EPA suketh!

NIK,


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## Bonemann (Jan 28, 2008)

It is stagnated wages that put the pinch on the middle class here in Ohio !!!

In the last 5 years the cost of living (in Ohio) has gone up 23% wages 2%

How can any normal person not feel as though they are going back wards ?

But everyone says "Just be happy you have a job" I think that's what all businesses want us to do,don't complain and do more now that you used to !

Profits for companies may be the same percentage as it ever was but less is going to it's workers and more is going to the top brass and it's investors.

My answer: go to work every day stop complaining spend every last dollar on yours and your family's survival !!! 

Oh ya and don't forget to tell all the young ones what it used to be like here in this great country !!!


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## Huz-yak (Jun 3, 2011)

Bucket Mouth said:


> Start up an oil refinery/gas company and sell it for $2/gallon. I'd be all for it. You'd lose your shirt in 30 seconds, but I'd make sure I'd fill up everything I got before your shirt is gone.
> 
> BTW, what are the fundamentals that you've used to determine $2/gal is the max sale price on gas?


***** Laker does not really think gas should be $2. Unless he is doing a lot of walking or riding a bike to the lake, then he believes that gas is worth $4/gal. He just wishes he could have some free gasoline.


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

It is what it is but I don't need some politician telling me we need to drill for more oil to lower the price of gasoline because that just isn't going to happen.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bonemann said:


> It is stagnated wages that put the pinch on the middle class here in Ohio !!!
> 
> In the last 5 years the cost of living (in Ohio) has gone up 23% wages 2%
> 
> ...


This guy has it right. All the big corps used the recession as a reason to "cut the fat" and squeeze ever little bit of profitability(and compassion) out of their business. The workers left standing have been lead to believe and told exactly that, you are lucky to have a job. Time to stop with the excuses.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...-rising-as-a-percentage-of-gdp-globalisation/












> There&#8217;s an interesting little chart about corporate profits as a percentage of GDP doing the rounds of the economics blogs. The number is indeed rising strongly. You can pretty much make up your own meaning of it if you like. It shows that Joe Sixpack is being, once again, done over by the corporate plutocrats for example.



Ohh, lookie here! Perfect timing. Those reaching for the free excedrin might want to make sure it's only a headache they suffer from.. I think it's much more complicated than a few here have portrayed. Correlation does not imply causation.


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## Huz-yak (Jun 3, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> This guy has it right. All the big corps used the recession as a reason to "cut the fat" and squeeze ever little bit of profitability(and compassion) out of their business. The workers left standing have been lead to believe and told exactly that, you are lucky to have a job. Time to stop with the excuses.
> 
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...-rising-as-a-percentage-of-gdp-globalisation/
> ...


You need to divide that chart by the money supply and the GDP [which is an extremely vague and fudged figure]. You will probably see a pretty flat line. Everything that everyone is complaining about boils down to one thing, fiat money and the FED printing press. Inflation distorts the economy (think McMansions) and favors banks and the government / tax eaters at the expense of us who don't see freshly printed dollars until after they have lost value.


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/drilling/...eaken-opec-s-position-cap-oil-prices-1.405117

Here is a good article on unconventional oil and outlook on future prices. the "new oil" activity may not drive prices down like it did with Natural gas, but it could verry well offset world demand and help stabilize/slow the growth of prices.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Huz-yak said:


> You need to divide that chart by the money supply and the GDP [which is an extremely vague and fudged figure]. You will probably see a pretty flat line. Everything that everyone is complaining about boils down to one thing, fiat money and the FED printing press. Inflation distorts the economy (think McMansions) and favors banks and the government / tax eaters at the expense of us who don't see freshly printed dollars until after they have lost value.


You really don't expect anyone to believe inflation is on the same curve or steeper than what that graph shows do you? We'd be paying $30 for a loaf of bread right now.


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

boss302 said:


> http://www.ohio.com/blogs/drilling/...eaken-opec-s-position-cap-oil-prices-1.405117
> 
> Here is a good article on unconventional oil and outlook on future prices


Do you really think big oil is going to do anything to cap the price of gasoline? The only thing that will cap gasoline prices will be alternative energy. We already have an electric car that will go close to 300 miles on a charge at a cost of about $9 per charge. Expensive? yes but prices will come down as the technology advances.


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

robertj298 said:


> Do you really think big oil is going to do anything to cap the price of gasoline? The only thing that will cap gasoline prices will be alternative energy. We already have an electric car that will go close to 300 miles on a charge at a cost of about $9 per charge. Expensive? yes but prices will come down as the technology advances.


not what I said, or what the article said....did you read it or just respond knee-jerk? NOTHING will CAP the price of gasoline. ANY force in play to moderate price increases is beneficial to the whole....alternative energy, increased efficency, AND increased production are part of that picture. Increased international demand (China) is the other side.


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

The market will cap the price of gasoline. It obviously hasn't capped yet. The idiots who run everything can act like they have control, but they don't. See what happens when they put in price and wage controls. They don't work.


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## Huz-yak (Jun 3, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> You really don't expect anyone to believe inflation is on the same curve or steeper than what that graph shows do you? We'd be paying $30 for a loaf of bread right now.


That is why inflation is so damaging to rational economic activity. It does not spread through the entire system evenly. Also, you are comparing the price of bread to the supply of money but inflation is not the increase in prices, it is the increase in the money supply.

If you look at the historical money prices of common commodities like oil or precious metals, then you actually will see exponential growth in these prices. Even though technology continuously advances and we are producing things more efficiently (which drives down real costs and real prices) we still see an increase in the money prices. This is one of the effects of inflation.

The other thing you need to consider is that your amazing Al Gore graph is the total profits in dollars... it will grow even if there is zero inflation and if profit rates were dropping because there is growth in the number and size of the corporations included in the survey. It is actually a pretty meaningless graph.

With the exception of ridiculous government regulations, licenses, subsidies, and bailouts, there is nothing preventing these corporations from competition and failure. If they are making huge profits it is because the consumers they serve have rewarded them for good products and services provided with high efficiency. They are not evil, they are our benefactors.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

http://www.businessinsider.com/iea-report-says-world-heading-for-oil-production-glut-2013-6


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

Huz-yak said:


> That is why inflation is so damaging to rational economic activity. It does not spread through the entire system evenly. Also, you are comparing the price of bread to the supply of money but inflation is not the increase in prices, it is the increase in the money supply.
> 
> If you look at the historical money prices of common commodities like oil or precious metals, then you actually will see exponential growth in these prices. Even though technology continuously advances and we are producing things more efficiently (which drives down real costs and real prices) we still see an increase in the money prices. This is one of the effects of inflation.
> 
> ...


Well said. This quote about sums it up:

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a dismal science. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

~Murray Rothbard Making Economic Sense (1995)


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

This subject is simple. It's a predator and prey relationship. Thank God we are different than animals, and we have a conscience. Can you imagine living in a country where one or two people work less hours and make more money than the next 700-people? I'm glad this never happens in our America.

And besides, I'm tired of running that cheap stuff in my vehicles! They all run better when it's over $4.00 per gallon. LOL!

For crying out loud fella's. How can the over $250,000.00 to $5,000,000.00 per year job creator folks afford the: yachts, extra houses, overseas trips, planes, ten or more vehicles, mistresses set up at several locations, health-care for their families, best colleges, and all the other stuff. The prices have got to be high in order for all of this to happen. It's only fair.

Because if the CEO's of the non job creating charities like the Suzan G. Komen Race for the Cure can earn $410,000.00 per year with an additional over $100,000.00 per year re-imbursement. And the CEO of The United Way can fly his family around the world on the Concord (fastest commercial plane ever). It wouldn't be fair to the job creating profit makers.


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bonemann said:


> It is stagnated wages that put the pinch on the middle class here in Ohio !!!
> 
> In the last 5 years the cost of living (in Ohio) has gone up 23% wages 2%
> 
> ...


That hits the nail on the head. Those doing the work are making less and those at the top are making much much more in terms of real wage. We're becoming a country of kings where the bottom line is much more important than what happens to your fellow countryman.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Bucket Mouth said:


> Well said. This quote about sums it up:
> 
> It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a dismal science. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
> 
> ~Murray Rothbard Making Economic Sense (1995)


Amen !!! I also agree with Huz-yaks post that you had quoted in your post. There is so much more in play than what some of the posters in this thread think about. It's a shame that making a profit has been turned into something ugly.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Huz-yak said:


> That is why inflation is so damaging to rational economic activity. It does not spread through the entire system evenly. Also, you are comparing the price of bread to the supply of money but inflation is not the increase in prices, it is the increase in the money supply.
> 
> If you look at the historical money prices of common commodities like oil or precious metals, then you actually will see exponential growth in these prices. Even though technology continuously advances and we are producing things more efficiently (which drives down real costs and real prices) we still see an increase in the money prices. This is one of the effects of inflation.
> 
> ...


Who said they are evil? I was explaining why its a perfectly natural reaction to cry to the oil companies when gas and oil prices become "unbearable". Right or wrong? Whatever, I don't care I'm not an economist, but don't act like its an unfathomable reaction.










Theres your 30 year gold price. What's that mean again? 

Remember when oil first hit 100$ a barrel? Remember why?


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bassbme said:


> Amen !!! I also agree with Huz-yaks post that you had quoted in your post. There is so much more in play than what some of the posters in this thread think about. It's a shame that making a profit has been turned into something ugly.


That was kinda my point all along. I dont think its something as simple as "were printing too much money". I hope you are talking about the guys saying the whole problem is us printing money and the central banks. The illuminati crowd. Couldn't be THAT simple now could it? What's this "so much more in play"? Consumer spending factor in at all? Pretty simple econ 101 really. Supply and demand. If you have less demand, you'll need a higher price point to maintain your bottom line? Sell less, employ less, consumer buying power keeps dropping obviously. Hard to spend money when you don't have a job. Vicious cycle right? Enter Keynesian economics. Watch how quickly that gets scoffed at.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Bucket Mouth said:


> Well said. This quote about sums it up:
> 
> &#8220;It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a &#8216;dismal science.&#8217; But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.&#8221;
> 
> ~Murray Rothbard Making Economic Sense (1995)


A lot of posters here need to read this quote, over and over and over. Unfortunately, they think they know what they&#8217;re talking about so they assume it doesn't apply to them.


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## Huz-yak (Jun 3, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Who said they are evil? I was explaining why its a perfectly natural reaction to cry to the oil companies when gas and oil prices become "unbearable". Right or wrong? Whatever, I don't care I'm not an economist, but don't act like its an unfathomable reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. 30 year gold price looks exponential. Been like that since Nixon put the last nail in the coffin in '71.

Oil hit hit $100 and $140 because of oil speculators [who actually serve an essential purpose, normally] ... guess where the big wall street boys get the money to buy oil futures on margin....


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Huz-yak said:


> Thanks. 30 year gold price looks exponential. Been like that since Nixon put the last nail in the coffin in '71.
> 
> Oil hit hit $100 and $140 because of oil speculators [who actually serve an essential purpose, normally] ... guess where the big wall street boys get the money to buy oil futures on margin....


Right. He said he bid it up just to do it. He wanted to be the first one to buy a $100 barrel of oil. :T


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> That was kinda my point all along. I dont think its something as simple as "were printing too much money". I hope you are talking about the guys saying the whole problem is us printing money and the central banks. The illuminati crowd. Couldn't be THAT simple now could it? What's this "so much more in play"? Consumer spending factor in at all? Pretty simple econ 101 really. Supply and demand. If you have less demand, you'll need a higher price point to maintain your bottom line? Sell less, employ less, consumer buying power keeps dropping obviously. Hard to spend money when you don't have a job. Vicious cycle right? Enter Keynesian economics. Watch how quickly that gets scoffed at.


I'm not sure why you quoted me, and then said it was your point all along. Actually, you're one of the ones I was talking about when I said that people need to see the whole picture, and not just some little corner of it. You're fixated on the actual number of the oil companies profits, which are meaningless. There is more to the picture than just the actual number.

I'm one of the ones that say a major part of the problem is the rampant printing of money. And no it's not that simple, but it is a huge contributing factor. The US dollar has lost 17% of its value in just the last 7 years. A large part of that loss in value is the increase in the amount of money available for circulation. You can't split something into 10 parts and expect each of those 10 parts to be equal in value to the sum of their whole. When the value of the dollar goes down, prices go up.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bassbme said:


> I'm not sure why you quoted me, and then said it was your point all along. Actually, you're one of the ones I was talking about when I said that people need to see the whole picture, and not just some little corner of it. You're fixated on the actual number of the oil companies profits, which are meaningless. There is more to the picture than just the actual number.


 If corporate profits are a meaningless figure when discussing gas prices, so is your 17% and everything else you say contributes to prices then. I didn't say anything even remotely close to that anyhow. You are connecting too many dots here. Inflation had nothing to do with the most recent spike of .20 in gas. Trying to predict supply and demand had everything to do with it. Take the inflation and devaluation of the dollar to another thread really cause that's not whats happening here. Longer term you have a point. Temporary spikes? Not so much. Do I think this is a perfectly healthy economy? Of course not. This path is not sustainable but I don't think the answer is throw em to the dogs and let God sort em out. We need a major overhaul and guess what? THis aint "the dems" doing, its not "the reps" doing its a culmination of all of the above. And for the most part it has worked great. Needs tweaking but I'm not an economist, or a politician, or a world leader. Not even a community leader. I'm a computer nerd fisherman. Im not going to pretend I know exactly what the deal is, I just know what it Ain't. You think you know how monetary policy really works that makes the economy run and all of their nuances? People who have committed most of their lives to it are still trying to figure it out but here we are on Ohio Game Fishing with it alllll figured out. Thats pretty great I guess! I commented why a normal person(not necessarily myself) may make the correlation between a companies high profits and the cost of their product. And you think they are completely wrong, and I understand that. Like I said, I don't really agree either but makes for interesting conversation now doesn't it? 



> The US dollar has lost 17% of its value in just the last 7 years.


Source?


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## Huz-yak (Jun 3, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> If corporate profits are a meaningless figure when discussing gas prices, so is your 17% and everything else you say contributes to prices then. I didn't say anything even remotely close to that anyhow. You are connecting too many dots here. Inflation had nothing to do with the most recent spike of .20 in gas. Trying to predict supply and demand had everything to do with it. Take the inflation and devaluation of the dollar to another thread really cause that's not whats happening here. Longer term you have a point. Temporary spikes? Not so much. Do I think this is a perfectly healthy economy? Of course not. This path is not sustainable but I don't think the answer is throw em to the dogs and let God sort em out. We need a major overhaul and guess what? THis aint "the dems" doing, its not "the reps" doing its a culmination of all of the above. And for the most part it has worked great. Needs tweaking but I'm not an economist, or a politician, or a world leader. Not even a community leader. I'm a computer nerd fisherman. Im not going to pretend I know exactly what the deal is, I just know what it Ain't. You think you know how monetary policy really works that makes the economy run and all of their nuances? People who have committed most of their lives to it are still trying to figure it out but here we are on Ohio Game Fishing with it alllll figured out. Thats pretty great I guess! I commented why a normal person(not necessarily myself) may make the correlation between a companies high profits and the cost of their product. And you think they are completely wrong, and I understand that. Like I said, I don't really agree either but makes for interesting conversation now doesn't it?
> 
> 
> Source?


Already commented that the spring blip happens every year. Summer gas is heavier and has more energy = costs more but you get better mileage. Major refineries in the US perform regular maintenance in the spring which causes a temporary shortage.

Monetary policy does not work and never will. It is evil. It is also the root cause of everyone complaining about commodity prices. Many like to groan over gas prices for some reason. It is insane. They should be asking for Bernanke's head or asking their congressmen and senators to shut the FED down and let honest citizens have real money and not the federal reserve toilet paper that we have used for the last 42 or 100 years.


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## Walleye_RBY (Apr 19, 2013)

I am in the industry. The price of oil is based almost solely on the international market place. With China and India both becoming more developed nations the world supply of oil is barely keeping up with demand. 

We (the industry) DO want to drill for more oil, if the world market gets more supply than demand prices will go down. BUT that is a double edged sword, if oil prices were to drop to say $60.00 per barrel new domestic drilling would slow or stop. Reason being fracking is expensive and it takes about $60.00 per barrel for a producer to make a profit.

Regionally, refinery issues are almost the sole reason for short term spikes in gas prices, it really sucks that they go up the day the issue happens (the gas in the storage tanks was purchased at the lower dollar amount) and it takes more than a week to fall to the prices that existed before a refinery had issues.

Not to mention the mineral leases are costing more and more and Ohio in particular is not very friendly to getting the product to market. There are no condemnation rights for producers in OH to take the oil and gas from a different unit across other properties. I am big on property owners rights and its warranted that there are no condemnation rights but when you have to pay EXORBITANT monies for an easement to take the oil and gas to market it has an effect on profit and thus by extension the USA's ability to be competitive at home and eventually the cost of gasoline.

Given the current political climate it has become increasingly difficult to warrant new exploration in the US in general and some States in particular. Part of it is also social engineering from the top down... 

Its a very complex issue but until the US looses its fear of fracking, encourages exploration in completely new areas of the US and decides as a nation that we want to be a top energy producer it will remain status quo. 

Honestly my industry has been devastated by the Keystone pipeline being delayed as well as hundreds of smaller projects by the current administration. Why would a company want to soak billions of dollars into a new pipeline when they can sit on it and make guaranteed interest on the money ? There has been about 5% of the capital projects in the last 5 or so years as there was in the previous ten.

The good news is what is largely a byproduct of drilling for oil is the natural gas that comes from the same well. Almost all of the natural gas (not the NGL liquids) stays domestic and there are more electric generating facilities firing the plants with natural gas as opposed to coal. Good for natural gas, bad for the coal producing regions like PA and WV.

Good discussion, I hope people keep this in mind during the next election cycle.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Walleye_RBY said:


> Not to mention the mineral leases are costing more and more and Ohio in particular is not very friendly to getting the product to market. There are no condemnation rights for producers in OH to take the oil and gas from a different unit across other properties. I am big on property owners rights and its warranted that there are no condemnation rights but when you have to pay EXORBITANT monies for an easement to take the oil and gas to market it has an effect on profit and thus by extension the USA's ability to be competitive at home and eventually the cost of gasoline.
> 
> .


I agree with everything you say, and it's certainly one of the more intelligent and knowledgeable posts here. However, the oil/gas industry has no one to blame but themselves for lease prices these days. Their greed caused some of them to come in and started offering ridiculous amounts to landowners so they could tie up as much acreage as possible for themselves. They set the precedence, there's no going back now.


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## Walleye_RBY (Apr 19, 2013)

M.Magis said:


> I agree with everything you say, and it's certainly one of the more intelligent and knowledgeable posts here. However, the oil/gas industry has no one to blame but themselves for lease prices these days. Their greed caused some of them to come in and started offering ridiculous amounts to landowners so they could tie up as much acreage as possible for themselves. They set the precedence, there's no going back now.


I agree 1000% they (we) didn't show much in the way of patience at times for both leases and the rights of way to get the product to market. Throwing money at something is not always the best route.

Interesting FYI, Ohio is being paid the highest amounts for easement to get the product to market in the entire nation... by about 3 to 4 times the amounts.

But again, I agree its a perfect arms length transaction... we don't have to buy and they don't have to sell... so I guess the market is exactly where it should be at this time.

Great post and thanks for reminding me the current costs are actually the industries fault... if you don't want to pay a premium, don't set the precedence :-D


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## Daveo76 (Apr 14, 2004)

The one thing that doesn't really bother me about up and down gas prices, is when I look in that cooler and see the price of a 20 oz Coke for $1.69. Seems to take my mind off the gas.


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

Huz-yak said:


> Monetary policy does not work and never will. It is evil. It is also the root cause of everyone complaining about commodity prices. Many like to groan over gas prices for some reason. It is insane. They should be asking for Bernanke's head or asking their congressmen and senators to shut the FED down and let honest citizens have real money and not the federal reserve toilet paper that we have used for the last 42 or 100 years.


Hey, if they don't want to abolish the Fed, at least let a competing currency enter the marketplace. The market will sort out real quick the winner vs. the loser.

If people calculated a gallon of gas based on pre-1965 silver coinage, they'd be paying less than $0.30 per gallon if you factor in today's price of silver at ~$22/oz, a pre-1965 dime weight of .07234 silver ounce content and gas hovering at $4 fiat/gallon.

But, hey, big gov't-types love Keynes because he came up with the farce, er "science", that says gov't spending, debt accumulation, and market manipulation is not only justifiable but healthy and necessary. Keynesian theory leads to the boom/bust business cycle, malinvestment, discourages savings, and causes moral hazard.

Massillon says that guys who do this stuff for a living can't figure out it, and he's right. To say that for the most part it's worked great, however, is a gross misstatement. To call people who don't like printing money and central banks "the illuminati crowd" is baseless and entirely uneducated. I would suggest reading opposing views at length before making statements like this. I'll give you a whole list of books if you're interested, and none of them have to do with the illuminati.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bucket Mouth said:


> Hey, if they don't want to abolish the Fed, at least let a competing currency enter the marketplace. The market will sort out real quick the winner vs. the loser.
> 
> If people calculated a gallon of gas based on pre-1965 silver coinage, they'd be paying less than $0.30 per gallon if you factor in today's price of silver at ~$22/oz, a pre-1965 dime weight of .07234 silver ounce content and gas hovering at $4 fiat/gallon.
> 
> ...


Who holds the power? The bankers right? The guys sitting on the Fed boards right? Whos pulling their strings? Huzyak says Bernanke and his low interest rates is to blame. Who says you? This same discussion has played out on the internet countless times. No one is breaking any new ground here.
Whats funny and no one ever wants to talk about is the fact that just about ever other large industrialized nation uses a similar "central banking" theme. I guess they are all wrong as well.

Besides dissolving the federal reserve, what other steps do you think are necessary to get our financial system back on track?


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Who holds the power? The bankers right? The guys sitting on the Fed boards right? Whos pulling their strings? Huzyak says Bernanke and his low interest rates is to blame. Who says you? This same discussion has played out on the internet countless times. No one is breaking any new ground here.


What specifically are these questions in regards to? I'm not sure what your summary point to the questions are.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bucket Mouth said:


> What specifically are these questions in regards to? I'm not sure what your summary point to the questions are.


The Fed and the money supply. Whats goal of our current system and who is benefiting the most from it?


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Whats funny and no one ever wants to talk about is the fact that just about ever other large industrialized nation uses a similar "central banking" theme. I guess they are all wrong as well.
> 
> Besides dissolving the federal reserve, what other steps do you think are necessary to get our financial system back on track?


What's funny is that no one ever wants to talk about every single fiat currency that has ever been issued in the history of the world has failed, with the exception of the current ones, which at the absolute oldest are no more than 100 years old, and some of which haven't been around as long as you or I have. Great track record. I'd love to see some examples of sound central banks. As this thread is about gas, I won't go into the weeds on this.

The Federal Reserve is essentially a limitless credit card for buffoons who haven't the slightest idea of what they're doing. That's all I comment on this as well.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bucket Mouth said:


> What's funny is that no one ever wants to talk about every single fiat currency that has ever been issued in the history of the world has failed, with the exception of the current ones, which at the absolute oldest are no more than 100 years old, and some of which haven't been around as long as you or I have. Great track record. I'd love to see some examples of sound central banks. As this thread is about gas, I won't go into the weeds on this.
> 
> The Federal Reserve is essentially a limitless credit card for buffoons who haven't the slightest idea of what they're doing. That's all I comment on this as well.


10th-11th century China. The Yuan.

Bank of Amsterdam established in 1609

The Bank of England, established in 1694.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Huz-yak said:


> The profit RATE is not higher than the average company... it is the dollar amount that everyone quotes because it is incredible... but that is because it is a huge business.


this is exactly right. Sure , Exxon made a ton of money but as a percent of total revenue, they are not even in the top 50 for year 2011.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/performers/companies/profits/revenues.html

I have a company that does a 1,000,000 in sales and I make 10%- 100.000.

Another company does 10,000,000 in sales and makes 5% but their profit is 500,000. So they should be castigated for that???


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

boatnut said:


> this is exactly right. Sure , Exxon made a ton of money but as a percent of total revenue, they are not even in the top 50 for year 2011.
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/performers/companies/profits/revenues.html
> 
> ...


Looks whos #1 on your list? A gas and oil company. Just saying. Big Pharma comprises a good majority of the list(who wants to cry foul there?) but Big Oil still comprises over 10% of your list of 50. Pretty strong showing I'd say. What that means? We use a lot of gas. I wasn't really complaining about gas prices.


The Most Profitable Businesses to Start

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sageworks/2013/04/28/the-most-profitable-businesses-to-start/


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> 10th-11th century China. The Yuan.
> 
> Bank of Amsterdam established in 1609
> 
> The Bank of England, established in 1694.


I don't care when the bank was established. How long was the currency used? The Yuan is fiat, and has not been fiat since the 10th century. The Netherlands uses the euro right now, which is also fiat. The bank of England - fiat.

The euro is in trash, the pound is trash, and the yuan is pegged to the dollar, which by default makes it trash. All of these countries run massive debt, which are paid for via inflationary policies aka invisible theft by the citizens. All bad examples.

Edit: the pounds sterling from the bank of England is from 1694, so you are correct. However, during the period of it's existance, the value has fallen 99.5% to .05% of it's original value. All fiat currencies eventually fall to their real value - the value of the paper it's printed on.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/08/average-life-expectancy-for-fiat.html



> The average life expectancy for a fiat currency is 27 years, with the shortest life span being one month. Founded in 1694, the British pound Sterling is the oldest fiat currency in existence. At a ripe old age of 317 years it must be considered a highly successful fiat currency. However, success is relative. The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver, so it's worth less than 1/200 or 0.5% of its original value. In other words, the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bucket Mouth said:


> I don't care when the bank was established. How long was the currency used? The Yuan is fiat, and has not been fiat since the 10th century. The Netherlands uses the euro right now, which is also fiat. The bank of England - fiat.
> 
> The euro is in trash, the pound is trash, and the yuan is pegged to the dollar, which by default makes it trash. All of these countries run massive debt, which are paid for via inflationary policies aka invisible theft by the citizens. All bad examples.


Bad example? Your stipulation was "hasn't failed". Dunno what you want. Then why don't you give us a good example of an industrialized nation not using fiat money and a central bank. Who should we model ourselves after? Show me a currency that ISN'T fiat currency please.


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Bad example? Your stipulation was "hasn't failed". Dunno what you want. Then why don't you give us a good example of an industrialized nation not using fiat money and a central bank. Who should we model ourselves after?


Chinese currency has been around since 1935, and the dutch use a currency that was not in existence until 1999.


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

You don't have to know much about economics to see whats going on in the oil business. In a free market system you have competition. There is none in the oil industry. Can you sit there and tell me that it is just a coincidence that the price of gas goes up the exact same amount at the exact same time in a large section of the country? Have you ever noticed that the price of gas will go up 25-30 cents overnight? Have you ever seen the price of gas drop 25-30 cents overnight? If that isn't collusion I don't know what is.


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

robertj298 said:


> You don't have to know much about economics to see whats going on in the oil business. In a free market system you have competition. There is none in the oil industry. Can you sit there and tell me that it is just a coincidence that the price of gas goes up the exact same amount at the exact same time in a large section of the country? Have you ever noticed that the price of gas will go up 25-30 cents overnight? Have you ever seen the price of gas drop 25-30 cents overnight? If that isn't collusion I don't know what is.


OPEC isn't a free market system, and they do collude. The U.S.A. does not operate in a free market system either.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Bad example? Your stipulation was "hasn't failed". Dunno what you want. Then why don't you give us a good example of an industrialized nation not using fiat money and a central bank. Who should we model ourselves after? Show me a currency that ISN'T fiat currency please.





Bucket Mouth said:


> Chinese currency has been around since 1935, and the dutch use a currency that was not in existence until 1999.



What?? The yuan is no longer pegged to the dollar. Chinese Yuan since 1935? Dutch? The Netherlands? They use the Euro. Not sure what you are even talking about but you might want to check your "facts" before forming such a strong opinion. 
Either way, I hate to break it to you but it's all fiat money. What you are talking about, and saying we need simply doesn't exist. Wishful thinking? The problem with the dollar is perception. Which can be said about all fiat money. It's only worth something if someone else is there willing and able to accept it in exchange for goods or services(or taxes  ). The global market has changed and will continue to change. We're not as safe a bet as we once were for more reasons than just printing money.

It's ALL "fiat" money.


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## markfish (Nov 22, 2007)

we have been punching wells down there left and right have alot more togo. and will get better when the pipelines and refineres are up and on line,then the money will flow,


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## Bonemann (Jan 28, 2008)

Walleye_RBY said:


> I am in the industry. The price of oil is based almost solely on the international market place. With China and India both becoming more developed nations the world supply of oil is barely keeping up with demand.
> 
> We (the industry) DO want to drill for more oil, if the world market gets more supply than demand prices will go down. BUT that is a double edged sword, if oil prices were to drop to say $60.00 per barrel new domestic drilling would slow or stop. Reason being fracking is expensive and it takes about $60.00 per barrel for a producer to make a profit.
> 
> ...


Wow you have made quite a few good statements !

If producers can make a profit at $60 a barrel how's it working out for them at say $100 a barrel ? Is that an additional 40% profit for said producers ?

Why wouldn't they sit on their money for a guaranteed interest ? Interest paid right now is at 1% or 1 1/2% at most banks (thats guaranteed) when it sounds like they could be making 40% profit doing their company business ?

It seems to me that oil companies make a substantial profit and how they spend it is thier oun business but don't tell me that the price of gasoline is not fixed by the oil companies that produce,transport and refine the products.

They charge what they want and we pay because we have too !!!


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

Bonemann said:


> Wow you have made quite a few good statements !
> 
> If producers can make a profit at $60 a barrel how's it working out for them at say $100 a barrel ? Is that an additional 40% profit for said producers ?
> 
> ...


While they can make a profit at a lower per bbl price point, higher prices make drilling these big investment wells more feasible. Shale wells are on the order of $5 to 10 million and there are no guaranteed returns, even in a proven play, let alone while they are exploring like most producers are in Ohio. They wouldn't be here if the potential rewards didn't outweigh the risks...high risk is why some producers like Devon and Anadarko have already pulled back from the Utica. 

And bash the oil companies all you want, but most of us have a vested interest through retirement accounts of not outright stock ownership!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Back on topic.....Just got back from South Carolina. Gas was 3.15-3.25 in Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina. $3.75-3.80 in West Virginia. This was along I77 and rural S.C.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Looking at 3.69 morse rd BP. Refineries must be back online.


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## tadluvadd (Feb 19, 2012)

this time next year, 3.89 a gallon will be a bargain.just like a $20 box of 9mm.funny how that price conditioning,and "shortage"thing works.increasing the price to shorten the demand is total bull.it actually works the other way.a while back when you could buy a box of blazer brass on sale for 9.99 it was a good buy.raise the price to a arm and a leg after the shortage.now sell a few on sale for $20 a box------WHAT A BARGAIN! I WILL TAKE 10 BOXES AT THAT PRICE PLEASE!we would shy away from gas this spring if it were 3.70 a gallon.now-----3.65 FILLER UP!THIS IS A BARGAIN! gas shortage,lol.ok.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Went into Walmart, came back out and it's 3.68. Happy days are here again!

http://youtu.be/gqsT4xnKZPg


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Walleye_RBY said:


> I am in the industry. The price of oil is based almost solely on the international market place. With China and India both becoming more developed nations the world supply of oil is barely keeping up with demand.
> 
> We (the industry) DO want to drill for more oil, if the world market gets more supply than demand prices will go down. BUT that is a double edged sword, if oil prices were to drop to say $60.00 per barrel new domestic drilling would slow or stop. Reason being fracking is expensive and it takes about $60.00 per barrel for a producer to make a profit.
> 
> ...


Just what would (will) happen to that crude when it gets to the gulf coast? It has been completed to Patoka, Ill and Cushing, Ok. where it can be refined. My hunch is that it will get refined on the gulf coast after the pipeline is completed. it will then be pumped directly onto ships and exported OUT of this country. Unless someone can prove to me that this is false I hope the last leg of the pipeline is never completed. In fact there is evidence that once completed the oil industry will use it to manipulate prices. In that respect I bet your industry is "devastated" by the pipeline not being complete 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...soline-prices/2012/03/01/gIQAtWkXlR_blog.html


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

What I really want to know gas prices can fluctuate .10 in less than a mile. Busy intersection vs not as busy.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

3.54 BP at olentangy and 5th.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

robertj298 said:


> You don't have to know much about economics to see whats going on in the oil business. In a free market system you have competition. There is none in the oil industry. Can you sit there and tell me that it is just a coincidence that the price of gas goes up the exact same amount at the exact same time in a large section of the country? *Have you ever noticed that the price of gas will go up 25-30 cents overnight? Have you ever seen the price of gas drop 25-30 cents overnight?* If that isn't collusion I don't know what is.


*Yep .....Gas is at 2.85-2.99 in Cleveland...... in the last hour . WOW........*


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Snakecharmer said:


> *Yep .....Gas is at 2.85-2.99 in Cleveland...... in the last hour . WOW........*


Nice! Overcorrection by the industry due to pressure from the public cause a surplus/sell off? That's about where gas needs to be I'd say. I'd be Really happy closer to 2.50. I'd be sending BP flowers in the mail.


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