# Big trouble for the Ohio river



## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

Any updates on ECDs, endocrine disrupting compounds. All is quiet while the Ohio river slowly dies. I know Smallmouth are especially affected by these compounds that cause reproductive abnormalities. But I hear no reports. Last summer was the worst I have ever seen the river for fish abundance, yet nothing is said or done by any of the agencies.

I know the stocking continues. But in my opinion this will only hurt the fishery thru loss of genetic diversity. I feel this is a stop gap measure and nothing is being done to fix the real problems. Come on, what is going on! I have been told the river is a different animal and the fishery is up and down. This is true to a certain extent. But common sense should prevail. The river is in big trouble. 

Someone out there knows something or has some idea of what is happening to the mighty Ohio. I am told things are pretty good and getting better. Hogwash! Just look at the parking lots of the access ramps in spring. 2 or 3 boats when there should be 30. This tells the real story. Lets hear from some one who has the real scoop. Not someone who works for the system and has to much to loose. Our river is in big trouble and they know it. Where are the schools of fish. Birds working. Schools of spotted bass pushing water. Showers of shad. And the least present fish I have seen in 30+ years, the Small Mouth bass.

Oh you say, I am seeing lots of little Small Mouth. Me to, stalked, to the last fish. Oh you say, just a bad year. Wise up. Pretty pictures and stringers of fish don't tell the true story. How many of you keep and eat your fish today. Not like we used to. The fisherman has always payed the price of a Lisc. fee, took the wrap for fishery declines, worked to improve the fisheries. We do our part, and I believe we will see the biggest decline in or fisheries in history. And it is not from over fishing. Where is all the money going. Not to the fishery! Now call this thread political and eliminate it. Call me ignorant and dismiss me. And witness the largest decline of our fisheries in history. Do you think farm and tank raised fish are are worth being proud of. Funny, aint it.


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## Perchy101 (Apr 14, 2004)

All the money goes into Lake Erie..


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## neocats1 (Oct 14, 2006)

Heck of a first post. What do you think is the problem and how do you think we can help correct it. No sense complaining unless you have a solution.


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## Buckeye1955 (Jan 30, 2007)

The allowances/limits for industries that discharge to the river are much to soft. In our area a local power plant is allowed to gravity discharge their impoundment pond via a syphon line to the middle of the river. Several thousands of gallons a day! This is impoundment water that has no life in it at all. Not a blade of grass, not a minnow. Nothing will live in it. It has a very alkaline PH due to the lime used in the scrubber process. At times, they have to add sulfuric acid to it to get the PH correct. And this is allowed due to supposedly the dilution effect of the flow of the river. How is this allowed? Obviously the power industry has much greater influence and money then the fishing groups. The bass fishing in our area hasn't been the same since this process was introduced. And this is just one plant. The various outdoor interest groups really need to band together and put some serious pressure on the state legislatures that border the Ohio. In our area, WV has control of the various discharge permits.And they'll do anything to promote industry and jobs and the votes that follow. Write or call your congressman and voice your opinion. The environment matters too!


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

The solution is actually pretty straight forward. The Gov. agencies should put our money where it belongs. On the problem. But there is no profit in that. This is all about money. I hear a study will not be done on the EDCs. They are actually fully aware of the problem. Just like they are about the low oxygen levels in summer. All of these problems have a solution. But wildlife and fisheries is about making money. Now I guess I'm in real trouble.


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## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

Call me naive, but I've been bragging for the last couple of years how the fishery in the Markland Pool (Cincinnati Area) has been dramatically improved, how the water clarity has been near-pristine, and the huge amounts of baitfish now present.

Is the problem you describe specific to only other parts of the river or the entire watershed?

I remember several years back fishing the main river basin hours and days at a time without landing a bass, but the last two years have been very good, in my opinion. I've credited this to the dry weather and the long periods of in-pool water stages and lakelike conditions.

I'm certainly not defending the harmful effects of pollution and dumping, and if this does exit as you state, (and there's no reason to believe that you would make this up), I would react strongly against it.

Anyone else?


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## Buckeye1955 (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm not a water quality expert. My job is in the technical field. So I am just going by what I hear, read and see. but I'll agree the water clarity has improved. That is due to the zebra mussel invasion. We fight them continually at where I work in water drawn from the river. We have to microbiocide all the fire water and cooling water systems to kill the larvae. But they do filter their body weight 9 times a day and have dramatically improved water clarity where ever they have become introduced. With the clarity improved, we have seen a remarkable increase in the growth of grass, etc along the banks. This has been somewhat of an improvement as it allows plenty of habitat for the shad to hide in. But we still have a very large industrial base up and down the river and the discharge restrictions on these plants are much too lenient. I work at one and know what they are perfectly legally allowed to discharge. It isn't pretty and obviously can't be good for the fishing environment.


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

I am not familiar with all of the pools. A lot of the pollution problems are old problems. They persist for a long time. Some new problems are the EDCs. These come from many sources. One of which may be womens urine. Woman take the pill or some Estrogen products and their urine reaches the water. Many male Smallmouth, especially around sewage discharges, contain eggs. Estrogen may be linked to feminization of male bass.

Also the amount of fish in a pool has nothing to do with the health of the river. Fish stocked 2 0r 3 yrs ago may give the impression of a healthy system, when in fact it is not. Are all year classes present. Why are they stocking. If the system was healthy no stocking would be required. I have seen no large fish kills, yet I see a steady decline. Will the ECDs affect our children. Very few studys have been done. I hear rats fed fish affected with ECDs are damaged themselves. And we drink the water from wells along the Ohio river. Although I fish a lot. It is still fun. It is no longer productive. Perhaps I am just a poor fisherman.


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## neocats1 (Oct 14, 2006)

Cross species pollination. That a new one to me. Could you please explain more how that works.
Thanks


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## kyjake (Nov 21, 2007)

Miyot,
What are your credentials for the accuracy of your post?As of now,don't take you serious.Most fish I catch are released back into the river and appear to be healthy,the ones that have been kept to eat also look healthy on the inside.
Does anyone know if the river has been treated to kill the zebra's?Shad did appear to be spotty this year and some think they poisoned for zebra's and killed a lot of shad in the process.
Jake


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

neocats 1, I didn't mention cross species pollination. Endocrine disruptor is an external agent that interferes with the hormones in the body. This can lead to males with eggs and female organs. A study on the South Branch of the Potomac in the spring of 2004 by a biologist showed 80% of 66 male bass tested had either eggs or other female reproductive characteristics.

kyjake, credentials, smentials. Who needs them. "According to Bret Preston of the WV DNR. Thousands of chemicals have been identified as EDCs." But the discovery of intersex bass has some scientist alarmed. You don't have to take me serious. England is the only country in the world that measures and limits Estrogen levels in sewage effluent. I am just a fisherman, with a lot of common sense. The fishing on the Ohio is on the decline.


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## Daveo76 (Apr 14, 2004)

Seemed to me the water was very clear from late spring on thru the summer and I saw only a very few Z Mussels. I can remember a few yrs ago, you couldn't bring a hook back without having to unload it. Not so the last few yrs. As for the Shad : I'm there at the river at least 4 times a week and didn't notice a dramatic decline in the shad population or shiners. Seemed like more skipjacks than ever, but I did notice not so many Smallies . We don't actually target them but do catch some here and there(Greenup Dam).
I'd like to see some more input Miyot


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

The fishing on the upper Ohio River was really good last year. I saw lots of shad, emerald shiners, and skipjack, along with alot of yearling SM and LM. The fishing on the river is cyclical. More has to do with the quality of the breeding season and the bait fish availibility than it does with various chemicals. Years when we have lots of flooding in the spring that kills off the fish eggs, yearlings, and bait fish seem to have way more harm. Some of these chemicals have very long lifespans before they degrade yet I have experienced really good fishing over the last 15+ years. Although the smallie fishing the last few years seems to have declined some, I seem to be catching more largemouth and spots than in years past. This may be due to clearer water and increased vegetation for these fish to breed. JMO

Jake


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## Cordon (Apr 12, 2005)

I believe this is what he is referring to. Here are a couple articles describing the problems of male fish growing ovaries.......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6436617/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=396612&in_page_id=1770

http://meningioma.wordpress.com/200...llution-fools-male-fish-into-becoming-female/


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## neocats1 (Oct 14, 2006)

I fished New Cumberland pool quite a bit last year. Shad were very plentiful, as were the skipjacks and emaeral shiners, in that pool. White Bass were just crazy for a while. I'm not a big Smallmouth fisher, but caught several when fishing for skipjack. Flathead catfish seem to be doing pretty well right now


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## Daveo76 (Apr 14, 2004)

Wow Cordon!! Thanks..Very interesting. I just wonder how long it's been happening.


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## snake69 (Sep 26, 2005)

A few years back there was mention of this exact problem. It was either around the 3 rivers in PA or up in New York somewhere. Recall reading and thinking what the @!*^! If you think of all the waste we dump into the rivers and lakes, it doesn't bode well!!!


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

My bro' is a water treatment engineer in Colorado .
He said that they tested a stream up there that had nothing in it but female trout due to EDC's!


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

they dont stock smallies in the ohio, and every healthy population of smallies on the planet has alot more small fish than big ones, i have also seen more evidence of big fish in recent years than ever before so your inability to find them is probably due to skill, those as mentiond this lower water summer may have moved them elsewhere. right now the ohio is in fact the cleanest it has been in many years and is continuing to improve, it is not hogwash from the guys in the system it is the truth. most species on the river had a wonderful spawn this season so i dont know where your its a bad year theory came from. edc's are a new problem and while water quality is not my study the people who work for the ohio river sanitation commision (the gov. organization that does all they can to improve the water quality throughout the river basin, those guys in the system), seemed to worry about the whole water quality issue and not the once that sounds the wierdest on the news, as far as i have heard they are not as big an issue as you make them seem, they are an issue though, but it is not at the scale of some of the problems they have had elsewere. if you are worried about edc's call them they will be able to give you the real facts on them in the ohio, personally i dont think we are even near to losing all our fish to this threat, or any on the ohio. i like your passion for saving our river and i do wish there was more time and money spent on cleaning it up and working with the native species but whining on a fishing board does nothing, however if you would like some tips on catching those elusive big smallies i'm sure there are some gentlemen on the site that have know how and are willing to help if you ask nicely.

i do wish that they would get a little more strict with powerplants ect, but it is an uphill battle for clean water that has already meen started and the gov is already putting money into the fight.


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

I am no expert on the Ohio River, but in general, all the rivers are getting a little cleaner. The Mighty Cuyahoga up here (yeah, I know, the one that caught fire...), is way better than it used to be. 20 years ago all that was in it were creek chubs and carp. Now, I fish it for smallmouth all summer and I've caught darn near every specie of fish out of it at least once.


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

So now we can expect to see masses of teenage boys in Cinn. hanging from their favorite swinging tree cause they have a set of TITS . Yea I saw that same CSI on thursday night . Cinn. has been drinking the water from the Ohio River for as long as I can remeber and I haven't seen one article about some teenage boy with TITS .
As far as the river it is in the worst shape I have ever seen , I would not fish it if I was you or anyone else . Unless you want a set of TITS .


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## boonecreek (Dec 28, 2006)

i,ve fished the river all my life. lived below meldaul all my life. fishing the big o has been a real passion the whole time. there is a lot of dead water one the ohio and all way will be. its the 90% of fish in 10% of water thing. u should of been around 40 years ago, fish had big allsores one there sides. cut the bad out and eat the rest. the earth has a way of taking care of its self. with a little help from freinds like u.


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## Buckeye1955 (Jan 30, 2007)

I don't believe they have treated for the zebras anywhere. I know what we use at the plant is very dangerous stuff. You couldn't treat a river or lake with it. There was an article I read today in a fishing magaizine that talked about the spread of the zebras into western waters including some of the irrigation canals to Pheonix and L.A. First time they have found them that far west. They were first introduced into the Great Lakes thru ballast water from the european freighters. They have dramatically cleaned up the great lakes. We are still pulling up native mussels in the Bellville pool completely covered with the zebras. The articles I've read said it is decimating the native mussel populations and of course is a constant battle and expense for industry that relies on intake water from the river. One artilcle says the populations vary year to year they believe due to high water levels and current. It says they do not do well in those conditions. Being from European lakes originally, that makes sense. But they have clarified the water similar to what they did in the great lakes. Sort of a trade off I guess for the zebras. Clearer water allows more sunlight which creates more grass and therefore more habitat. In regard to the by-products of birth control pills etc, there was an article just recently in the USA Today on that and the worries about communities that take their drinking water from those waters. The articile said the levels continue to rise every year. It will take some pretty sophisticated water treatment to remove something like that. Probably pretty expensive too! ( I just did a Yahoo search "zebra mussels in the Ohio river" and it came up with many articles about the subject if you would like info from the experts.) I also did a Yahoo search for "Endocrine disrupting compounds in the Ohio River" and again, several articles appeared from various experts and agencies.


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

The Ohio river is under a 5 year management plan. 2005 thru 2009. The plan proposes to introduce 38,250 Smallies into the Hannibal pool over a dedicated three year period. Stockings in 2008 will depend on River levels during May 1 thru June 30th. 38,400 Large Mouth are to be put into the Willo Island pool. Also 65,500 Walleye are to be put in the Hannibal and Pike Isl. pools as well. Annually, wow. 
These are a new strain, I hear discovered by a Biologist, I think from the New River.

A previous stocking of Walleye from the Lake Erie strain failed in the past. Also Blue Cats are to be stocked in the Bellville pool and on south. I have 
not been able to confirm last years stocking, But 2006 was done as planned. 

I agree last summer the water clarity was exceptional. 10-15 feet of visability. You could really see the veg. down there. Very few fish were caught in the 4 pools I spend time in. However I did see huge schools of small fingerling fish, I believe from the stocking in April or May. And I can confirm Smallmouth in the 3 inch range in late summer. And quite a few of them. The water clarity I felt was abnormal. I wondered if the plankton bloom failed for some reason, during July and part of Aug. I interviewed many fisherman and the story was the same, few fish. Lots of carp and lots of Gar. Small schools of Shad. And most year classes of Smallies missing.

Nearly half of the Ohio river is unit for human contact. And this is from effluent during rain and high water periods. I have never seen the fishing so poor. The river may be cleaner than ever. But something is wrong. On a good day you should be able to catch 1.5-1.7 fish per Hr. in a healthy system. Just my opinion. Most guys don't know what good fishing is. I am amazed so many still find fun with such poor return. I am one of them.

Riverking. I'm not a bad fisherman. I once caught 2.5 tons of Croakers in 31 min. Fishing 1000 yrds of net. Off New River inlet N.C. They weren't Smallies, but they made a days work.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

Perchy101 said:


> All the money goes into Lake Erie..


Ohio doesn't own any part of the river


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## Buckeye1955 (Jan 30, 2007)

Yep your're right. The state line in my neck of the woods If my memory serves me correctly is the low water mark of the river. So in my area of the river the discharge limits are set by good ol by god WV. And any fish stocking, etc is also done by WV. It kinda falls thru the cracks really flowing thru several states on it's merry way. I wonder alot of times whether we would be better served if the feds handled the pollution guidelines. You would think there would be less "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" at the federal level. The states anymore will jump thru flaming hoops to get jobs that pay taxes.


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## Champion188 Elite (Jan 16, 2007)

I fish the river alot! 3-4 days per week sometimes from March-October for the last 20yrs.There has been good years,bad years,and also GREAT YEARS!
99% of my fishing is done from Marietta to Pittsburgh.

I honestly beleive 2003 thru 2005 was the worst fishing I've ever done in the river!The last couple years have been pretty good at certain times and 07 was actually a really good year for me,spring and fall ecspecially.
As for 90% of the fish being in 10% of the water..........That is DEAD ON! When I could find the fish I could catch plenty.The smallies seem to be nomadic.....here one day and gone the next.I also caught smallies of every size from 5lb down to the 7-8" fish.And as others I saw plenty of what appeared to be tons of bass fry on the water.Also enormous clouds of shad fry.The spawn in the areas I fish seemed to be very good in the pools I fish.These pools had very little water fluctuation all spring which no doubt made for a great spawn.

As far as the pollution goes.It is there no doubt,some of the things you see and smell around the mills and powerhouses in these pools is awful.I have caught a few smallies that were in bad shape with very nasty looking sores,beat up fins and no weight.(EXample) I caught a 18 3/4" smallie in a tourny last June that weighed 1.15oz and looked like it had been beaten and burned. A result of pollution? Probably! But I have also caught plenty that looked as healthy as any Canadian smallie would.
It seems as if the river is much clearer than in years past,but that does not mean it is any cleaner than it was in the 80's.I don't think that enough is done to protect it,but you have to remember the river is for barge traffic to get the goods from place to place and not really for the quality fishing.


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## Buckeye1955 (Jan 30, 2007)

Champion - You're right about last fall. I fish the Marietta area mostly and some above St. Marys. The fishing really seemed to pick up last fall. The grass growth this year seemed to help a bunch. We were having a ball with the walleyes around Buckley Island on in-line spinners. With some luck, maybe it will continue this spring! Sometime we ought to compare notes on fishing in the area. And you're right about clearer not necessarily being cleaner. The outfall of the impoundment ponds from a power plant scrubber process is crystal clear. But it does have a terrible odor.


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

i was unaware of the smallies, and i like your retort on fishing skill . as for the walleye they are the native strain on the ohio and have been doing very well, i think the New was one of the big strongholds for them. WV seems to have recently taken up a big project with native species on the river, blues, eye's, now smallies and i think they have been stocking paddlefish for some time now. also i stumbled upon a report on the edc's last night looking for somthing else and i was surprised there are alot more smallies showing "both parts" more or less, than i expected, however they also said there needs to be more study on if it will effect populations because it has yet to have made a major effect, odd but i guess everything still works, for now. as for those little smallies they were out in droves this year but even though there seemed to be more around wv, they were also in PA and way down in ky in high numbers, i still think there was an excellent spawn on top of whatever wv stocked. as for the fishing last year, i will not argue that it was brutal due to the clear water, 14 secci (clarity) readings are not the norm on that river, but the fish were there, the secret bait was electricity.


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## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

A pair of pretty healthy looking residents of the Markland pool.

I caught hundreds like this this summer, and very rarely did they have sores or abnormalities.


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

http://media.www.guilfordian.com/me....Male.Smallmouth.Bass.Have.Eggs-2693246.shtml
Those fish look healthy. Now is the Smallie a male or female or both?


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?StoryID=56738


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

I think the correct terminology is "Teats!" LOL


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

We have already seen the largest decline in fisheries in recorded history. Much of this is blamed on over fishing. I hear talk of how good the water quality is in the Ohio river. Why then are there fish advisories. Those that talk about clean water and how good it is are the same guys who pay a 1.69 for a gallon of water at the store. 

You'll hear those in fisheries say it just costs to much to clean it up right. I have commercial fished, ran a charter boat and worked in a fish house. I had to be able to afford every lisc, buy every piece of safety gear, pay for my and each mates drug testing. Keep fish reports of each and every fish caught and released. And if I didn't I was out, fined, financially ruined.

If industry can't clean the water effectively they should be out. Period. Water treatment plants should be required to filter the water effectively. Or fined until they do. Gov. has a set of rules for the public and another for itself. If you get an auto ticket. You must pay. Or loose your lisc. So you pay. If you didn't you lose your lisc, perhaps your job, your home. This is how they get you. 

How often does industry pay. I have heard less than 10% of fines are ever fully collected. They can afford to fight for years. Exxon has yet to pay in full for the Valdez incident. How long ago was that. If the river is the best its been in years. Why the intense stocking. If you can catch several hundred Smallies in a year, whats that. That is no fish boys.

All I ever hear is overfishing. National Marine Fisheries Service shuts some fisheries down. Puts thousands of famalies out of work, they lose everything. Then find out years later their science was flawed, the fish had moved, not disappeared. Global Warming may be responsible, or a shift in watertemps or currents. The fisherman knew this, but the Gov. won't listen. After all what does a fisherman know. What happens to NMFS, are they in trouble for destroying the jobs of thousands, NOT. Not even a sorry folks.

Then there are the fishieries in real trouble. Like the Bluefin Tuna. Their stocks are ready to collapse. If they are managed by NMFS, for yrs, how could this be. The Flounder in the Mid Atlantic are the best they have been in 20-30 yrs. Yet they add restrictions so even the recreational fisherman must quit.

Yes, I am upset. The science looks down on the lowly fisherman. After all he knows little and is just greedy. We need to work togeather. I found fisherman to be exceptional people, who work hard for very little. One of the fishermans biggest problem is they are so independant. They must stick togeather. Recreational fisherman blame the commercial guys and vice versa.

The biggest problems facing our fisheries are Global Warming, Industrial and municipal waste and runoff. We need to work with the scientist and they need to listen to us. It is obvious to me most of you had never heard of EDCs. I was informed by a person at Orsanco. Why hasn't the fisherman been informed. I hear and read this can and will affect humans. A tall glass of water from the Ohio looks pretty good, but I won't drink it. I and my children swim in it ocassionally. But none of us feel good about it.

The Ohio should be a wonderful place for recreation. Charterboats, motels, beaches. A real vacation spot. It aint!


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## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

miyot said:


> If you can catch several hundred Smallies in a year, whats that. That is no fish boys.


If your reference is to my comment, along with the pictures, that I catch hundreds like those pictured each summer, I guess the other comment I failed to make is *AND RELEASED*.

I don't ever remember removing a fish from the Ohio River. All of my fish are strictly catch and release.

I also fish Canada for a month each spring and with the exception of a few walleye (Pickeral) for dinner, they all go back to fight again another day.

Too bad more don't follow the same principle, I see way too many go 
"in the box." 

I and others are obviously disillusioned about the conditon of the Ohio River Watershed. 

I wish you nothing but the best of luck on your crusade!


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

BMustang, I don't think over fishing is any kind of problem on the Ohio. It hasn't been commercially fished for a long long time. I have not eaten a fish out of the river. Ever. However, I have eaten quite a few out of the feeder streams. 15 or 18 yrs ago I and a few friends caught 80+ Smallies like the one you hold, before noon. All released. What a summer.

I no longer eat any fish, unless caught in local impoundments. Even our feeder streams have fish advisories. If there is a restriction on what you can eat, I'll have none of it.

I am not really on a crusade. I've said my piece. I think I'll just enjoy the other posts, and see what the fellows are doing. I would of liked to see the river during the 1700's. It was the life blood of the continent. Fishing has been a big part of my life. From Tuna to Bluegill. Smallies were always my favorite. Especially wade fishing. Just found this site. Fun to see what everyone is doing.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

This phenomonon should be occuring in nearly every moderate to large stream in the industrialized world if this endocrine disruptor hypothesis is true.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

I agree with the over emphasis on strange and unbelieveable news articles. I doubt that this is a large problem, just a device to catch the viewers eye....and it seemed to have worked in this case.


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

No commercial fishing on the Ohio are you kidding . 
What do you call the thousands of hoop nets they set every year to take the cats out of the river .
Go down to any lock this time of year and you will see them setting out snag lines for spoonbill for their eggs .


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

i find it funny that so many people think the river is pounded by commercial fisherman, i was out on that river 4-5 days a week for 6 months from pits. to below owensboro and saw bouys for 2 hoop nets all summer, and a small handful of trotlines, thats really gonna rape our catfish fishery. you cant blame overfishing on the ohio. as for the spoonbill, they cant legaly set any lines right below the locks, you cant snag within 1,000 ft of a dam and you can only legally snag two a year with the right permits out of ky, below meldahl, no other dam in ohio. yes while there is a problem with POACHING, paddlefish, not commercial fishing them in the ohio river, i have personally seen multiple state boats looking for poachers on the same day in area's where it is a problem. there is a small, and it is small compared to many other rivers and impoundments, commercial fishery on the ohio out of ky for catfish, mostly for paylakes, which i know no one on the site likes to hear, but it is dwarfed by the commercial fisheries for them on places like ky. lake and wheeler lake in alabama, the two places where most of ohios paylake fish come from. though i disagree on some of the specifics with miyot he is bringing up a very good point, pollution and habitat modification are the two biggest problems to our fish in the ohio, i think thats really all he is trying to point out. he is right to a degree as well, 20years ago there were more smallies, in many but not all of our streams, and i would rather be fishing the river of 1700 as well


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

Since when did anyone start putting out bouys on hoop nets . I have never ever seen one with a bouy attached to it . Look on the bank next 6 months when you are on the river for markers tied to the trees on the river bank thats how most of the guys mark where their nets are .
They have snag lines set right below (1000ft ) from the dam ( 1000 ft ) back that is where the State bouys are at on all of the locks on the river that is as close as you can get to the dam from a boat .
Read the info on the 450 lic.commercial fisherman who add $5million to Ky econ. http://fw.ky.gov/pdf/lesson2.pdf 
Paddle or spoonbill are consider rough fish same as flathead bluecat channel there are no restriction on how many you can take out of the river . Go read the laws for KY fishing .
Do the math 50 cents a pound for live catfish goes into 5 million how many times . So how many pounds of catfish or spoonbill eggs is that .
I have watched guys take 1000 pounds of cats out of one hoop net just one . 
If you think the catfishing would not be any better if the state of Ky stopped all commercial fishing on the Ohio River , I would have to disagree with you . If you think that some of the biggest cats in the river are not taken out by commercial fisherman I would have to disagree with you . I watched a 76 lb flathead taken out of a hoop net between straight creek and whiteoak on the Ohio River


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## ohiogary (Dec 14, 2006)

Seems like that is a problem everywheres, one state allows commerial fishing in there rivers and others dont, not to much unity with the fishing industry, if they would join in, work together it would be alot better


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## Vmax (Jan 1, 2006)

Sounds like some more Y2K crap to me!People tend to analize things to much,and if you do it enough you can make any situation seem as you want.I've been fishin the river for alot of years and it cycles thru its good years and bad years.


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

I was not aware of a commercial fishery in the southern reaches of the Ohio river. I checked it out. It is well regulated. I am glad to see enough fish are there to sustain a fishery, and surprised. These fisherman are not the problem with fish numbers. It is just easy to blame them. Global warming, Mercury, PCBs, EDCs, habitat alteration, industrial, urban, and municipal run off, heating the water, and on and on. 

There is real trouble in our waters, and little is being done to fix it. I believe we will wait until our children, or their children are sick. Then we will deny it further, and spend countless millions arguing the point. Doctors used to endorse cigarettes, they are good for you. Healthy and invigorating.

There is nothing wrong with the river. We just like to stock it. Everything is good. Just don't eat more than six meals per year of Flatheads of all sizes and Channel cats less than 17". EDCs, if we ever find out they are a problem we will let you know. Dioxin, Polychlorinated Biphenyls, Mercury,EDCs mmmm good!


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

without debating all the issues involved,i'll just add that as far as advisories go,most of ohio's waters have adisories on several species,to one extent or another,from the ohio to erie and everywhere in between.i don't put a lot of stock in them,as err on the safe side as far as the amount of toxins,etc.
as for the present condituion of the ohio,it is in far beter condition now than it was in the early 1900's.you couldn't stand to smell the fish,much less eat them.


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

One more thing, just think about it. Overfishing was never the cause of the major decrease in fish abundance. After decades of fishery rules and regulations. Limits, Lisc. fees. Stocking programs. Biologists, Conservation Officers. Politicians. Lake and impoundment management. THE FISHERIES REMAIN A MERE SHADOW OF THEIR FORMER SELVES.

The fisherman has been blamed for much, if not all of our fisheries problems.
The hunter blamed for the loss of wildlife. We have played but a small role. And it is us who pay for nearly all of the management and improvements, stockings etc. 

Its time everyone pays. For we are all responsible. I can't believe fisherman and sportsman don't complain and demand their deserved praise. Anti hunters and fisherman have bad mouthed us for years. The DNR remains quiet and collects our money. It is us who have payed with real money.

Who stands up for the real good guys. In the past when coyotes or foxes overpopulated, the Gov. paid us to control them. We now pay the Gov. to let us pay to control them. Yes you read that right. I don't get it.


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

misfit, I agree the river is in better shape than it used to be. Although it only takes one or a combination of chemicals to make a problem far more dangerous than anything we have experienced before. I hope this is not the case. So what if it is better. It still aint right.

Why would you compromise on something so important as the health of our waters. If you brought your car in to be fixed, and I put new tires on it but it wouldn't run, would you except that. It is far better than it was.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

as i said,i'm not debating all the issues involved,only pointing out a couple facts that got lost in the debate.i mentioned nothing about compromising,nor did i say were were no problems.
as long as man is on this planet and populations grow,there will be increasing problems.there's no getting around that fact.the job ahead is to minimize those problems as best we can,because we can never get back what was.
with that said,i still think overall,fish and wildlife for the most part,in general are in a better state than in the past.
we've made some gains and suffered some losses.with population growth,dvelopement,industry,farming practices,etc,nature will always be negatively impacted in some way.


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

Without a doubt I am all for cleaning up all of the rivers in Ohio . The FIRST thing that needs to be done is to STOP all dumping of raw sewage in all of our rivers and lakes everytime it rains . Next time it comes a good down pour go to your nearest sewage plant and watch the overflow pipe . You won't want to eat or fish or swim in ANY lake or river in Ohio . Ther is a bill out that is for just letting the public know when and how much raw sewage they dump into Lake Erie and all bodies of water in Ohio . 
As far as finding any of this funny I don't think it is a joke dumping in the river or taking our catfish out of the ohio river .


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## miyot (Feb 16, 2008)

misfit, I have to agree with your statement "we have to minimize the problems best we can". We have to haul anchor, come about, and make way. Do I feel a change in the wind says I. 

C J Hughes, That FIRST THING you mention, raw sewage, could be the smoking gun. Nearly all of the large cities on the Ohio discharge raw sewage during periods of moderate to heavy rain fall. The systems just can't handle the run off. Even if that is fixed, the effluent would need to be filtered to remove the EDCs. England already does this.

Smallies that are affected are usually close or just down stream from these kinds of outfalls. This is actually not news to fisheries. Just nothing is being done.


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## fisharder (Mar 18, 2005)

Man did it take me a wile to read all that and it got a little windy at times.
I would say that all the sportsman on this site do what they can and that if we know of something we report it. What it comes down to is we just keep doing what we do and turn a blind eye to nothing.The river is in the shape it is today largly in part because of the efforts and dollars of sportsman like us. The river would be in bad shape if it was not for us. This is a great place to start a grass roots movement after all who doesn`t want clean water??
Its not hard to get people to sign on to that concept.. So just roll up your selves and make the call or write the e-mail and do it everyday not just once but till something gets done and I mean everyday.I send the same e-mail to my senators everyday for months sometimes.Thats my two cents


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## farmboy (Oct 12, 2005)

I have read all the post on this topic. It sounds like some of you would like the good old days back. but if you travel back through time you would find out that the water is better now then it was just A few years ago. I can remember when they didn't want you to eat any fish at all out of the big O. 
All though the river might not be pristine like back during Daniel Boon days, but its A lot better then the 60's & 70's when the industrial companies on the river had very Little regulation. Unlike to days standards. is it perfect now, no but is better then it was just a few short years ago . That is the way I see it but what do I know. I am more of a glass half full then empty person. Is the river all most dead as some of you see it, I don' think so, is it the best it has ever been? NO, but it is A lot better now then in the recent past. So if you want be DOOM & GLOOM go head but I am not going to fall for the trap of pessimism. One quick question! WHERE is all this doom & gloom information coming from? I here a lot of hyperbole and anecdotal talk but where are the hard facts to back this conspiracy up that the Government is lying to us about the condition of the river...


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

You will find very few states, if any, that don't have some sort of advisory on fish consumption in some of their waters. There are lakes in California that are fed from mountain runoff that you cant eat fish in because of the mercury. All heavy metals occur naturally and through the food chain get into fish. You can blame things such as mercury, zinc, lead, etc. contamination squarely on industry. 

I don't stick my head in the sand by any means, but you cant deny the fact the the Big O is better than it was in the past. Its not pristine and probably never will be. Its a major waterway used for transportation of everything from oil, to coal, to grain. You have unknown amounts of mine runoff that reach the river through feeder creeks. You still have extensive overflow from waste water treatment plants. Things like mine runoff may never be fixed. I know of atleast 8-10 streams that run into the river in about a 20 mile stretch that support nothing but "poor water" indicating organisms. Yet every spring, white bass stack at the mouths of these creeks and over the past 3 years I have caught some of the biggest females I have seen in a while. There is alot to be done but the Big O has come a long way also.

jake


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## cadyshac (Dec 9, 2005)

Wow it took awhile to read all of that! I recommend you stay home so the falling sky doesn't kill you while fishing at the river. Meanwhile I will keep you posted on what you are missing. If you like to drive a car or turn on your lights then there will be pollution. Do I like it, H e l l no but I try to do my part and hopefully as a society we are getting better. My 2cents.
Cady


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## ohiogary (Dec 14, 2006)

I understand the river is definely in alot better shape than years ago, but I still feel there is more that could be done, I live close to wheeling not far from Pike Island dam, and you have major steel manufactures on the river, I have worked in these facilities and I have never seen anything like it. The amount of oil, grease that covers just about everything is hard to believe why such a place has'nt caught fire and burned to the ground, and these places are huge, I cannot imagine how much petroleum run off these places have. Sometimes I think the EPA needs to step in, and open there eyes. It doesnt require a degree to see the damage these places are doing to the eco-system. I am far from a tree hugger, but Id like to see the river improve for generations ahead


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