# kinder gentler on crime



## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Imo we as a whole are too Lenient We had a Judge that use to have convicts pick up trash as part of their sentence till one of them sued him because he cut his hand on apiece of glass while picking up trash and won !! a jury ruled that he wouldn't have cut his hand if he wasn't placed there by the judge !!!!! criminals can sue the homeowner if they get hurt while robbing them case example a man broke into a home and was startled by the home owner and when he tried to flee he broke his leg running away from the crime !!!! we live in a sue the Ba$tard society Prisons that have TV weight rooms walking tracks Library's 3 squares a day here is a Quote that I think it applies here 

If violent crime is to be curbed it is only the intended victim who can do it. The criminal does not fear the police. The felon fears neither the judge or the jury. therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim
Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper USMC

kids now days, well some look up to the drug dealer with their fancy cars, clothes and live styles Police have their hands tied do this, do that, but don't do it this way his rights maybe fringed.

this may seem like a rant to a lot of people but look around you today read the news about local crime probably before the want adds since covid and politics takes president over most every thing else is there a answer ? I don't know I'm just going to go fishing (Armed) to the teeth like when I go to the store or church and try to think of where it went wrong 

thank you for listening to a old man's Opinion or Rant LOL you decide which


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)




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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

sorry I did not think that this violated policy and if in fact it did I am sorry if any one is offended that was not my intent


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## Crankbait-Crazy (Feb 25, 2020)

Didn't offend me in the slightest. I agree with everything you said. Good to know I'm not the only one that thinks this way.


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## BuckeyeFishin07 (Apr 10, 2017)

No offense taken here either! I think it should still be an eye for an eye, wouldn't have the amount of crime we do if it was like that!


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Upland said:


> sorry I did not think that this violated policy and if in fact it did I am sorry if any one is offended that was not my intent


You didn’t, I was just making light of the fact that these subjects typically end up with a lockdown because people cannot control themselves. That includes myself 🤣


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Smitty82 said:


> You didn’t, I was just making light of the fact that these subjects typically end up with a lockdown because people cannot control themselves. That includes myself 🤣


very true


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Saw today on news that new AG in New York City is not going to prosecute robbery and other 'minor' crimes and only charge murderers. This plus no bail and New York should be destroyed in a month or two.


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)




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## BuckeyeFishin07 (Apr 10, 2017)

Ron Y said:


> Saw today on news that new AG in New York City is not going to prosecute robbery and other 'minor' crimes and only charge murderers. This plus no bail and New York should be destroyed in a month or two.


Hope that city burns, they won't be happy until they completely ruin this country!


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

No lock....not political at all....CHOOTEM LIZBETH  if any one breaks in, threatens lives,


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

I predict people in the gun free city will start owning guns. That DA says a criminal can assault you with a gun etc but as long as he does not shoot you its a misdemeanor.


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## TM-1 (Mar 10, 2012)

This is the main reason I buy ammo!


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Saugeye Tom said:


> No lock....not political at all....CHOOTEM LIZBETH  if any one breaks in, threatens lives,


X's 2.
Keep it non political ='s keep it open.


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

In alot of countries they still punish criminals appropriately. Steal something you get that hand cut off. Public executions etc... If we would follow crime would drop dramatically. Sure alot of states still have the death sentence but these people are sitting on deathrow for 30+ years regularly. Sentence them let them visit with their family one last time within the next 24 hours then off them. Think of all the money this would save the tax payers


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## Lil' Rob (Apr 11, 2004)

DHower08 said:


> In alot of countries they still punish criminals appropriately. Steal something you get that hand cut off. Public executions etc... If we would follow crime would drop dramatically. Sure alot of states still have the death sentence but these people are sitting on deathrow for 30+ years regularly. Sentence them let them visit with their family one last time within the next 24 hours then off them. Think of all the money this would save the tax payers


Because I couldn't "like" this twice!



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

For all the bleeding hearts who do not believe in the death penalty lets take the 'life in prison with no parole' group and put them on a island, patrol boats so they don't escape, drop food off every couple of weeks and let them fend for themselves. Sure would be cheaper than the $70,000 we spend for each prisoner now.


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## dcool (Apr 14, 2004)

As other countries have said, the U.S. has the worst judicial system in the world. I personally think they should bring back public hangings.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

I think we know why these lax new laws and policies are being put into place, and exactly what demographic it helps.


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

a .45ACP round is about fifty cents wholesale. swift and definite.


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## snagless-1 (Oct 26, 2014)

If we keep ignoring this subject it will not go away.I and many others realize this is a hunting and fishing forum but this affects all of us.Lets keep praying that this will be a better new year and vote these clowns out.Take care and God bless.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

I thought we voted for term limits years ago in Ohio and some judge said it was unconstitutional. Our problems come from both sides the aisle with politicians more worried about reelection than helping the people and making themselves rich. How the voters keep reelecting the same people who do nothing amazes me. The old swamp needs to go.


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## Dave_E (Apr 6, 2004)

DHower08 said:


> In alot of countries they still punish criminals appropriately. Steal something you get that hand cut off. Public executions etc... If we would follow crime would drop dramatically. Sure alot of states still have the death sentence but these people are sitting on deathrow for 30+ years regularly. Sentence them let them visit with their family one last time within the next 24 hours then off them. Think of all the money this would save the tax payers


Agree 100%

They should also bring back debtors prison. 
If you can't pay back your debts, you get locked up to go work them off.
So many people irresponsibly, and purposefully, live outside their means then cop out and just go bankrupt. It's a way of life and is passed down through generations.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Ol' Whiskers said:


> a .45ACP round is about fifty cents wholesale. swift and definite.


when Short fat and slow will do the job


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## Moo Juice (Jan 20, 2021)

Upland said:


> when Short fat and slow will do the job


You just described me.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Moo Juice said:


> You just described me.


gonna have to nick name you 45acp LOL


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Upland said:


> Imo we as a whole are too Lenient We had a Judge that use to have convicts pick up trash as part of their sentence till one of them sued him because he cut his hand on apiece of glass while picking up trash and won !! a jury ruled that he wouldn't have cut his hand if he wasn't placed there by the judge !!!!! criminals can sue the homeowner if they get hurt while robbing them case example a man broke into a home and was startled by the home owner and when he tried to flee he broke his leg running away from the crime !!!! we live in a sue the Ba$tard society Prisons that have TV weight rooms walking tracks Library's 3 squares a day here is a Quote that I think it applies here
> 
> If violent crime is to be curbed it is only the intended victim who can do it. The criminal does not fear the police. The felon fears neither the judge or the jury. therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim
> Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper USMC
> ...


Lol...You can't sue a judge dude… You can file a complaint if you think they didn't follow a code of ethics in the court room… But you can't sue a judge for a court ruling… Where do people come up with the ****? Lol


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Dave_E said:


> Agree 100%
> 
> They should also bring back debtors prison.
> If you can't pay back your debts, you get locked up to go work them off.
> So many people irresponsibly, and purposefully, live outside their means then cop out and just go bankrupt. It's a way of life and is passed down through generations.


...We already have problems with overcrowded prisons and not enough staff to manage it… So your answer is to make it worse and add more prisoners because somebody's in debt?? I love reading this stuff because some of the replies are So ridiculous that they're funny


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

I fully agree that there needs to be harsher penalties for violent crime.

But, the good news (despite what you will see on the news) is that violent crime has been trending down in the USA for the last 30 years. The odds of an average, 21yr+ old, middle class (or above), white guy being the victim of a violent crime perpetrated by an unknow assailant is tiny. There was a Covid bump, but you would be better served in keeping a watchful eye on your family and friends…..rather than the “other”.

I might be able to get behind Debtors prison….IF, corporations are held to the same standard.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

9Left said:


> Lol...You can't sue a judge dude… You can file a complaint if you think they didn't follow a code of ethics in the court room… But you can't sue a judge for a court ruling… Where do people come up with the ****? Lol


yes I put sue in lack of better words but the guy had cut his hand on glass that he was ordered to pick up and he went back and said that the Judges ruling was unfair and put him in danger and won point being a judge can order a defendant a heavy sentence only to be reversed by a loop hole


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

9Left said:


> ...We already have problems with overcrowded prisons and not enough staff to manage it… So your answer is to make it worse and add more prisoners because somebody's in debt?? I love reading this stuff because some of the replies are So ridiculous that they're funny


Not funny he said bring back not add too


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

Upland said:


> Imo we as a whole are too Lenient We had a Judge that use to have convicts pick up trash as part of their sentence till one of them sued him because he cut his hand on apiece of glass while picking up trash and won !! a jury ruled that he wouldn't have cut his hand if he wasn't placed there by the judge !!!!! criminals can sue the homeowner if they get hurt while robbing them case example a man broke into a home and was startled by the home owner and when he tried to flee he broke his leg running away from the crime !!!! we live in a sue the Ba$tard society Prisons that have TV weight rooms walking tracks Library's 3 squares a day here is a Quote that I think it applies here
> 
> If violent crime is to be curbed it is only the intended victim who can do it. The criminal does not fear the police. The felon fears neither the judge or the jury. therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim
> Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper USMC
> ...


We are seriously screwed. In Peru, they take care of the pedophiles, thieves, wife beaters etc on their own with "chapa tu choro" there is a BBC article i could post the link or for an interesting read, Google it. It's near the top of results. Let Google translate it to English. Basically if they catch you doing something, they'll tie you up and get street justice, whipping, stoning, etc and leaving you to bleed. Maybe you survive, you might also eat thru tube too.


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## missionfishin (Sep 21, 2011)

9Left said:


> ...We already have problems with overcrowded prisons and not enough staff to manage it… So your answer is to make it worse and add more prisoners because somebody's in debt?? I love reading this stuff because some of the replies are So ridiculous that they're funny


Build some more.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

snagless-1 said:


> If we keep ignoring this subject it will not go away.I and many others realize this is a hunting and fishing forum but this affects all of us.Lets keep praying that this will be a better new year and vote these clowns out.Take care and God bless.


Yes. Vote these clowns out and get back the control of our border we had before 2021.
Anyone on death row with previous attempted violent assaults need to be done away with immediately !
(Free up that overcrowding issue !)
Need to go back to hard labor fo repeat felony offenders !
Chain gangs welcome!
No 3 hots and a cot !
Anyone breaking into your home can be exterminated without homeowner facing charges. 
We need to send a message to these new comunist politicians. 
That we taxpayers want out country back !!


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

If I had my way, to do things, jails and prisons, would be one step above a POW camp.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Sheriff Joe Arpio in Texas put them in tents cause of overcrowding, only gave them couple tv channels and some other things and got sued and I think not reelected as the bleeding hearts thought he was mean and violated their rights. That is the thinking that's ruining our country.


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## BuckeyeFishin07 (Apr 10, 2017)

Pretty sad when we treat people who choose to break the law better than the veterans that put their lives on the line to keep this country the way it is. Messed up world we live in when someone who chooses to break the law and in some form takes a right away from another human get treated better than most people that work for a living and follow the laws!


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

BuckeyeFishin07 said:


> Pretty sad when we treat people who choose to break the law better than the veterans that put their lives on the line to keep this country the way it is. Messed up world we live in when someone who chooses to break the law and in some form takes a right away from another human get treated better than most people that work for a living and follow the laws!


sad is right


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

Blames attorneys.


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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

Ron Y said:


> Sheriff Joe Arpio in Texas put them in tents cause of overcrowding, only gave them couple tv channels and some other things and got sued and I think not reelected as the bleeding hearts thought he was mean and violated their rights. That is the thinking that's ruining our country.


Yea. just something for the bleeding hearts to bitch about. 
Tents are good enough for our troops
to stay in.
But not for people who break the law ?
Yea. Thats some ass backwards thinking right there !
Crazy thing also.
Is that some of us choose to go camping in a tent with no TV !


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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

Hey!
Maybe... 
We need to
Build Back Better some 
Prisons !
One's like Alcatraz!
Same rules and accommodations!


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)




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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

MagicMarker said:


> View attachment 481368


100% agree !
That pic worth a 1000
words !
Should be on a billboard ! 
Everywhere!


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## 87duckhead (Oct 28, 2021)

They probably complain because that big guys is making that little boy carry that tackle box.


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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

87duckhead said:


> They probably complain because that big guys is making that little boy carry that tackle box.


👍👍👍🤣


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

Upland said:


> Imo we as a whole are too Lenient We had a Judge that use to have convicts pick up trash as part of their sentence till one of them sued him because he cut his hand on apiece of glass while picking up trash and won !! a jury ruled that he wouldn't have cut his hand if he wasn't placed there by the judge !!!!! criminals can sue the homeowner if they get hurt while robbing them case example a man broke into a home and was startled by the home owner and when he tried to flee he broke his leg running away from the crime !!!! we live in a sue the Ba$tard society Prisons that have TV weight rooms walking tracks Library's 3 squares a day here is a Quote that I think it applies here
> 
> If violent crime is to be curbed it is only the intended victim who can do it. The criminal does not fear the police. The felon fears neither the judge or the jury. therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim
> Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper USMC
> ...





Upland said:


> Imo we as a whole are too Lenient We had a Judge that use to have convicts pick up trash as part of their sentence till one of them sued him because he cut his hand on apiece of glass while picking up trash and won !! a jury ruled that he wouldn't have cut his hand if he wasn't placed there by the judge !!!!! criminals can sue the homeowner if they get hurt while robbing them case example a man broke into a home and was startled by the home owner and when he tried to flee he broke his leg running away from the crime !!!! we live in a sue the Ba$tard society Prisons that have TV weight rooms walking tracks Library's 3 squares a day here is a Quote that I think it applies here
> 
> If violent crime is to be curbed it is only the intended victim who can do it. The criminal does not fear the police. The felon fears neither the judge or the jury. therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim
> Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper USMC
> ...


 Careful what you say might come back to bite ya


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## PromiseKeeper (Apr 14, 2004)

I'll bet you couldn't have pried that tackle box out of that boys hands! Reminds me of me and my grandson


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

PromiseKeeper said:


> I'll bet you couldn't have pried that tackle box out of that boys hands! Reminds me of me and my grandson


Gave my nephew one I wasn't using. He's 5 and has it filled. Lol. He'd fill my extra large cabelas lure bag if his parents allowed. 🤣


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## Doboy (Oct 13, 2008)

Upland said:


> *gonna have to nick name you 45acp LOL*



Or,,,,, a fantastic name for his BOAT! I read that one too. ;>)


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## Doboy (Oct 13, 2008)

How many members on OGF?

*I'd love to see a POLE forum (sticky) started. For input on all of our 'controversial' subjects! (ok, no politics??)

I'd love to see the outcome,,,,, & opinions from our 'signed in' NUT & BOLTS Sportsmen.
I'm sure one of our MODS could write up 4 or 5 questions pertaining to each topic.?*


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)




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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)




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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

MagicMarker said:


> View attachment 481470


awes


MagicMarker said:


> View attachment 481470


awesome now that's words of wisdom right there


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## Deadeyedeek (Feb 12, 2014)

and the world is confused as to why so many of us carry guns!!At the end of the day, we all are responsible for the safety of our family and selfs!!


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)




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## BuckeyeFishin07 (Apr 10, 2017)

MagicMarker said:


> View attachment 481543


Wish they would quit using that gun hating idiot in gun memes!


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

BuckeyeFishin07 said:


> Wish they would quit using that gun hating idiot in gun memes!


huh who


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## alantanner47 (Oct 26, 2021)

dcool said:


> As other countries have said, the U.S. has the worst judicial system in the world. I personally think they should bring back public hangings.


Especially for crimes against children and women.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

alantanner47 said:


> Especially for crimes against children and women.


Right...Until some crazy girlfriend accuses your son or grandson of rape one day, just because they're crazy… And it goes through... and your son/grandson is killed for it..,. There's a reason we got rid of that...There is a reason that the judicial system takes so long it seems very complicated....Not saying I agree with it… But there are stupid people working there and sometimes innocent people die when they shouldn't. And no, I am not in favor of a lighter easier punishment system on crimes… But I am definitely not in favor Of housing more people in prisons for life and just hanging them in the streets.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

9Left said:


> Right...Until some crazy girlfriend accuses your son or grandson of rape one day, just because they're crazy… And it goes through... and your son/grandson is killed for it..,. There's a reason we got rid of that...There is a reason that the judicial system takes so long it seems very complicated....Not saying I agree with it… But there are stupid people working there and sometimes innocent people die when they shouldn't. And no, I am not in favor of a lighter easier punishment system on crimes… But I am definitely not in favor Of housing more people in prisons for life and just hanging them in the streets.


your right about accusations and the fact of gets through IMO the Prosecutor's they don't care about the truth they care about adding to that high percentage rate of convections and they get that rate by charging a person accused with a crime with the highest penalty and they say well if you plea guilty we will charge you with a lesser penalty and many innocent people get trapped But for those who are Guilty of a Heinous crime I will build the gallows and put the noose around their neck


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)




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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)




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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

Makes me wonder about drugs. Every one knows it is the root of crime. Who is really trying to stop it. We, had a national out cry against smoking. where is the out cry for drugs. Seems like some one is trying awafal hard to tie the hands of LE. Every one is crying about going clean, go electric every thing. OK, so we clean up the air, water, in the end, drugs has such a foot hold, it will take over. Is there a Cartel running DC.


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## Ten Bears (Jan 12, 2012)

Remove all the electric chairs. Install electric bleachers!


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

one3 said:


> Makes me wonder about drugs. Every one knows it is the root of crime. Who is really trying to stop it. We, had a national out cry against smoking. where is the out cry for drugs. Seems like some one is trying awafal hard to tie the hands of LE. Every one is crying about going clean, go electric every thing. OK, so we clean up the air, water, in the end, drugs has such a foot hold, it will take over. Is there a Cartel running DC.


No... drugs are not the root of crime…Many people commit many different crimes for many different reasons… Drugs are not at the root of the problem… Now, Drugs are definitely 
"a" problem, i can agree on that...But if you really want to tackle our nations drug problem… You're looking at a fight with big pharmaceutical companies, drug cartels and so on...The Sad truth is that drugs are nothing more than a part of our economy now


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

9Left said:


> No... drugs are not the root of crime…Many people commit many different crimes for many different reasons… Drugs are not at the root of the problem… Now, Drugs are definitely
> "a" problem, i can agree on that...But if you really want to tackle our nations drug problem… You're looking at a fight with big pharmaceutical companies, drug cartels and so on...The Sad truth is that drugs are nothing more than a part of our economy now


I, am going to have to disagree with you about drugs not being the root of crime. Ask the people that have had there homes and autos broken into form people who want drug money. The cartels are winning. When we wanted to hire people thay had to take a simple drug test. We went through many ,many people, who could not pass the test. I, am not talking about the pharmaceutical companys. I, am talking about the drugs that come in this country. I, my 74 years of life, I have never seen so much crime, caused by one thing. I, am not going to get into a Pi%$ing contest about this. Our politions sold all of us down the river.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Heard something the other day that only something like 25% of the 18-34 year olds are acceptable to be in the military. They can't qualify because of drinking, drugs, obesity etc.


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

The War On Drugs was never fought to win, only to control to the level of legalization so the legal drug sale can be taxed, case in point legalization of marijuana. Follow the money. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, and our rlected officials would rather look the other way and let the future crew worry about the balance. 

If the USA wanted to fight to win against dangerous illegal drugs things would be very different. However, there would be fewer people for a while, cartels and dealers and users. And the fallout economies, hospitals and rehabs and prisons and insurance and car repairs would be much thinner. Policing and customs & border protection and homeland security would be much fatter, which is terribly unpopular fight now.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Again, media can distort our perception of reality.

Much like violent crime, Thefts have been going down for at least 30 years:

USA - reported larceny-theft rate 2020 | Statista

Illegal drug use had been trending down since the 70’s, but I cannot quickly find data on current use rates.
My guess is that overall it is still trending down, but it has moved to rural communities that previously had much lower rates. Also, overdoses are trending up. So, it is closer to home, and overdoses makes it even more visible. Lots of factors in both those trends, but without question Purdue Pharma is more relevant than any other drug cartel.


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

Not big pharma, illegal drugs coming in thru ports of entry, this is just Customs and Border Patrol for 2021, not including DEA:

CBP officers, Border Patrol agents, and Air and Marine Operations agents continue to interdict the flow of illicit narcotics across the border. In FY2021, CBP seized 624,500 pounds of drugs.
Compared to last fiscal year:

Cocaine seizures increased 68%;
Methamphetamine seizures increased 7%;
Heroin seizures decreased 6%;
Fentanyl seizures increased 134%. 
 of note, they made one seizure of enough fentanyl to kill 700,000 people.


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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

Drugs not the main reason of crime ?
Do think these people are breaking into houses, cars, robbing people, selling their bodies. To buy their mom some groceries?
No !
They are just looking for their next bump !
There are plenty of government welfare programs,
food pantries, ect.
You need to go into the real neighborhoods and find out what's going on.
You can buy anything from diapers to power tools. Freshly stolen. For pennies on the dollar. Some neighborhoods, there is a drug house every few blocks.
Very sad !
And yes! We need to restart the war on the cartels !
Many men and women in uniform over the years.
Be it Police, Border Patrol, ICE, undercover FBI. Have put their lives in jeopardy and died trying to fight the drug trade.
But, In a few swipes of a pen our borders have been opened wide and our Enforcement Agencies hands tied.
All for a sick political agenda !


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

At 74, I, am on my way out. Good luck to all of you, is all I can say. Things are not going to get any better. It is a real shame, I will say every one knows some one that OD'ed or is a diction.


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## Century2001 (Mar 20, 2018)

Two things: 1) We just need to get back to hard time so that prison is a deterrent, especially for crimes committed with weapons. Bring back road gangs, prison farms, no TV, just enough food to survive, work them hard enough all they want to do is sleep when not working. 2) ENFORCE THE DAMN LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS! Quit watering down the process with cashless bail, lenient sentences, catch & release, etc. Let’s get back to “Don‘t do the crime if you can’t do the time”.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Century2001 said:


> Two things: 1) We just need to get back to hard time so that prison is a deterrent, especially for crimes committed with weapons. Bring back road gangs, prison farms, no TV, just enough food to survive, work them hard enough all they want to do is sleep when not working. 2) ENFORCE THE DAMN LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS! Quit watering down the process with cashless bail, lenient sentences, catch & release, etc. Let’s get back to “Don‘t do the crime if you can’t do the time”.


Who’s going to watch them and guard them? Prisons are already over booked and there’s a huge shortage of correctional officers. Can’t have them cleaning up roads or breaking rocks if there isn’t the manpower to watch them.


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

Alcatraz Island, location of Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary from 1934 until 1963.
Rikers Island, location of New York City's main jail complex.
Deer Island (Massachusetts), location of Deer Island Prison, closed in 1991.
McNeil Island, location of McNeil Island Corrections Center from 1875 to 2011.
High Desert State Prison (HDSP) Susanvile CA
"Tent City Jail" in Phoenix
and any other medium to high security facility that can be brought back on line, renovated by inmates under threat of death by armed guards with shoot to kill authorization. Minefield surrounding dog run surrounding wide open fenced yard. No weight rooms or exercise yards or libraries or phones, just lockup, sandwiches, water. Use any russian high security prison as a model. 

This might sound like 'cruel and unusual' but it will not take long for word to get around that we mean business, and if it's the same for everyone then it's no longer unusual. The only variation is length if sentence. Sorry, but drastic situations require drastic measures. Do the crime, do the time.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

All that would be great. There are way to many bleeding harts, for that to happen. That is what started all the coshy prisons. If I had my way all the prisons would be one step above a POW camp. Yes, thay are over crowded, there is no deterrent.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Ol' Whiskers said:


> Alcatraz Island, location of Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary from 1934 until 1963.
> Rikers Island, location of New York City's main jail complex.
> Deer Island (Massachusetts), location of Deer Island Prison, closed in 1991.
> McNeil Island, location of McNeil Island Corrections Center from 1875 to 2011.
> ...


It would be cheaper to just build new facilities than try to renovate jails that have been sitting unused for years. Also do you really thinks it’s sound security having inmates do the renovations? That seems like a huge security risk.


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## odell daniel (Nov 5, 2015)

9Left said:


> No... drugs are not the root of crime…Many people commit many different crimes for many different reasons… Drugs are not at the root of the problem… Now, Drugs are definitely
> "a" problem, i can agree on that...But if you really want to tackle our nations drug problem… You're looking at a fight with big pharmaceutical companies, drug cartels and so on...The Sad truth is that drugs are nothing more than a part of our economy now


the U.S. government are the biggest drug dealers in this country, I don't remember pain clinics when I was young, now they are every where. Olbama's legacy is heroin and transgender garbage/


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## erie mako (Jan 22, 2013)

Why is it that Narcan is cheaper and easier to get than an Epi-pen?

It should be that abusers are allowed 1 dose of Narcan then you're done getting it.
I know an individual that had to have 3 Narcan interventions in one week by EMS providers!


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

erie mako said:


> Why is it that Narcan is cheaper and easier to get than an Epi-pen?
> 
> It should be that abusers are allowed 1 dose of Narcan then you're done getting it.
> I know an individual that had to have 3 Narcan interventions in one week by EMS providers!


You say that until you have a loved one that needs more than one dose of narcan.


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## Deadeyedeek (Feb 12, 2014)

There are some interesting takes posted. am enjoying seeing everyones point of view. The drugs that are comming from the southern border are out of control, no one wants that border closed, there are wayyy to many people getting filthy rich from it. DAs, judges,politicans and lawyers. And the increase in vioent crimes in big cities(Chicago, Toledo,etc) is Gang related and no one wants to say that. Hell my community is waving drug tests just to get bodies to work..WTF I wouldnt want to work with folks like that! At my age, I dont have to worry about that, but I am concerned for you younger folks that have to put up with all the unrest! In the meantime, I will just mind my own business, and go hunting and fishing and enjoying what time i have left and keep my gun with me just in case someone want to ruin my, or family day


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Smitty82 said:


> You say that until you have a loved one that needs more than one dose of narcan.


In that case you should buy it for them and not the tax payers. I see a pattern here that everything should be done at the taxpayers expense in your replies. I’m not willing to keep having my money taken away to help people that choose to break the law. New jails, unlimited supplies to help people continue to break the law. No thanks.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

bobk said:


> In that case you should buy it for them and not the tax payers. I see a pattern here that everything should be done at the taxpayers expense in your replies. I’m not willing to keep having my money taken away to help people that choose to break the law. New jails, unlimited supplies to help people continue to break the law. No thanks.


Here’s a prime example of how someone can get hooked without it being their fault. My best friend who is a PA at the Dayton VA deals with these patients every day…
Soldier gets wounded in theater. From the moment he gets fixed up he’s started on pain meds. Gets life saving surgery and gets more pain meds. Gets flown out of theater to Germany where he gets more surgery and more pain meds. Gets flown state side where he waits to be medically discharged but still receiving pain meds. Gets discharged but now is seen at the VA, gets more pain meds. After a few months VA dr Says hey wait a minute you’re addicted to pain meds so cuts him off. Now this dude is hooked and his body’s pain receptors and pain tolerance is all out of wack. So he proceeds to start buying rx meds off the street, but thoes are too expensive so the dealer offers other street drugs that are cheaper. Now he’s going to the va as an addict. Ends up relapsing and medics are called and they use narcan to save his life. The system failed him but people say that he should only get 1 chance at a life saving drug?
Granted this is a small minority of addicts but it’s a fact, and there are 1000s of people in that position. It’s a disease that’s not always self induced. 
A little bit of understanding and empathy go a long way.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

I have all kinds of empathy and understanding for our vets. You cherry picked a very small minority. I didn’t say people only deserve 1 shot. Cancer is a disease. Choosing to be a tweaker and a thief is a choice.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

bobk said:


> I have all kinds of empathy and understanding for our vets. You cherry picked a very small minority. I didn’t say people only deserve 1 shot. Cancer is a disease. Choosing to be a tweaker and a thief is a choice.


Yes I cherry picked even stated so. But it’s a fact that’s happening right now. I’m not in favor of tax payers paying for new prisons or unlimited supply’s for criminals. Also please show me we’re tax payers are paying for narcan? Because last time I checked the patient gets billed on all ems calls. Insurance pays, if there’s no insurance the hospital or medical services eat the cost untill the pt can pay.


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

Our VA system owes it to the wounded to see them through, from start to finish. The government, however, does not owe anyone any therapeutic relief from self-induced stupidity, and does not owe anyone that decided to obviate legal requirements a soft living when they are convicted - cut out the fluff, no visitors, no packages mailed in or out, no books or tv or netflix, just sit on your 2 x7 sheetmetal cot in your 4 x 8 cell eating your sandwich thinking about how ***** stupid you were to get here and how not to be that stupid if you should ever get out. Focuses precious resources on very specific inner-facing self education and deterrent, the best of simple cognitive behavior therapy.

So if the hospital has to eat the cost, it flows to you and me in higher costs or higher taxes, no free ride. In Middletown, the EMS Firechief said three strikes and your out relative to narcam, and got fried gor denying the addicts' 'rights.' Baloney!

Soapbox notwithstanding, I'm done, thanks.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Y’all make it sound like prison is a spa. I highly doubt that’s the case. I’ve never been to prison and I have zero desire to go there.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

Smitty82 said:


> After a few months VA dr Says hey wait a minute you’re addicted to pain meds so cuts him off


That sounds more like a doctor problem than a drug problem.
* In 2020 nearly 19 million children, amounting to 25 percent of all children in the U.S., were living in single-parent families. That percentage is nearly three times the level in 1960 of 9 percent. America's proportion of children living with a single parent is more than three times the worldwide level of 7 percent*.
We all know what led to this and it should stop.
It's only going to get worse as more and more men have absolutely no idea how to be a father.
If crime and drug addiction is going to be overcome---This is one of the greatest problems we face in America -- Imo.


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## One guy and a boat (Aug 8, 2018)

Smitty82 said:


> Y’all make it sound like prison is a spa. I highly doubt that’s the case. I’ve never been to prison and I have zero desire to go there.


You're thinking like a normal person and not wanting to be in prison. There is a certain element that thinks prison has its advantages over their life situation. What's being said is make it less attractive as a deterrent. And to quit bailing people out for poor life choices.

Kip


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

garhtr said:


> That sounds more like a doctor problem than a drug problem.
> * In 2020 nearly 19 million children, amounting to 25 percent of all children in the U.S., were living in single-parent families. That percentage is nearly three times the level in 1960 of 9 percent. America's proportion of children living with a single parent is more than three times the worldwide level of 7 percent*.
> We all know what led to this and it should stop.
> It's only going to get worse as more and more men have absolutely no idea how to be a father.
> If crime and drug addiction is going to be overcome---This is one of the greatest problems we face in America -- Imo.


It is partly the drs problem, and now some pain clinic drs are starting to go to jail for pushing opioids and ruining community’s.


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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

I watched a 90's FBI show about Richard Speck. (Google that on Wikipedia )
He killed and tortured 8 student nurses in Chicago In 1966.
Sentenced to death.
Then some years later,
Illinois Supreme Court 
Declared death Sentence unconstitutional!
So we housed this freak for 25 years !
He didn't have much regret about being there.
He did whatever he wanted in prison. With no fear.. Got high and lived out more sick fantasies. 
(Screenshot from Wikipedia below.)


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Smitty82 said:


> Y’all make it sound like prison is a spa. I highly doubt that’s the case. I’ve never been to prison and I have zero desire to go there.


Well, you are wrong with your assumption. I’ve been in federal, state and county prisons when I worked for a chemical company. Many of them are way nicer than they should be. Jail is not a deterrent for many. It’s a better place to hang out than a lot of their homes are.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

If we would stop giving the illegals money and free healthcare maybe that money could go to the crime problem. We are inviting criminals from other countries to come here also. 
I have an idea, instead of housing convicts, lets do to them what they did to their victims and see how they like it.


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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

Now I hear 2 young officers gunned down in New York !
Probably because of some New Jack _ss
new protocol some bureaucrat on there city council dreamed up !
Let's not forget ! 
The 2 police who got killed in Westerville. Attorney of the man who killed those cops was picked by Ginther to be on police review board !
Just another politician making decisions for political gain!
Hope that along with the millions he gave protesters.
Bites him in the _ss at the polls !


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

bobk said:


> Well, you are wrong with your assumption. I’ve been in federal, state and county prisons when I worked for a chemical company. Many of them are way nicer than they should be. Jail is not a deterrent for many. It’s a better place to hang out than a lot of their homes are.


My assumption was that I doubt prison is like a spa. You’re saying that my assumption is wrong. I appreciate your view point.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

I predict that if crime continues without fixing the problem, the public will take matters into their own hands.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Ron Y said:


> I predict that if crime continues without fixing the problem, the public will take matters into their own hands.


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## fasteddy (Jul 15, 2012)

Ron y, I've been looking for that response since this thread started. "Vigilanteism"---- I just had to say it. Not an "eye for a eye" but an "eye for their head". Oops I swung the bat a little to hard, sorry.


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## Moo Juice (Jan 20, 2021)

As long as criminal's are caught in the act and are posing a threat to someone's life, then I think we will see an increase in "self defense" incursions. Because we all know America has the best self defense laws in the world. Hunting down criminal's after the crime and instilling one's personal justice on them would be where vigilance comes in and I doubt the justice system will stand for that. I have seen crimes personally in the last few months that haven't even been followed up on by the authorities. The perps have walked and I believe people are growing weary of this kind of behavior. Time will tell how people react to criminal injustice. Perhaps some of the liberal Da's will get recalled and we'll get prosecutors who are tough on crime again.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

If we continue down the path with more liberal DA's I think the general public will stand for just about anything to restore law and order.


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

If someone were to commit a misdemeanor directly on the liberal DA, say they can get padt the security detail of George Gascon or Alvin Bragg, do you think there would follow a prosecution? Why don't the local police arrest the DA for malfeasance in office, failure to uphold the kaw and the constitution? I see Gavin Newsome Thursday on TV picking up wats left in the train yard and asking, "What the hell is going on?"


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## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

Ol' Whiskers said:


> If someone were to commit a misdemeanor directly on the liberal DA, say they can get padt the security detail of George Gascon or Alvin Bragg, do you think there would follow a prosecution? Why don't the local police arrest the DA for malfeasance in office, failure to uphold the kaw and the constitution? I see Gavin Newsome Thursday on TV picking up wats left in the train yard and asking, "What the hell is going on?"


If he has to ask that question, he is clueless and part of the problem.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

I do not know why we can't have a class action lawsuit against these officials that violate the laws including Joe.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Found 2 sites that say this is fake.


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## jackal_727 (Feb 16, 2010)

Ron Y said:


> Found 2 sites that say this is fake.


Yeah apparently it is. Too bad as it would be a deserving end for those kind of people.


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## Dave_E (Apr 6, 2004)

Ol' Whiskers said:


> The government, however, does not owe anyone any therapeutic relief from self-induced stupidity...



Ol' Whiskers,
Interesting take above. 
What do you think about fat people that become diabetic because they're fat, then claim to be disabled? 
What about smokers that end up with COPD or worse?
Should they qualify for "therapeutic relief from self-induced stupidity" in the form of government disability?


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Fat people did not swear on a bible to uphold the written law.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Dave_E said:


> Ol' Whiskers,
> Interesting take above.
> What do you think about fat people that become diabetic because they're fat, then claim to be disabled?
> What about smokers that end up with COPD or worse?
> Should they qualify for "therapeutic relief from self-induced stupidity" in the form of government disability?


Wow Fat people that become Diabetic claim to be Disabled Should they qualify for "therapeutic relief from self-induced stupidity" in the form of government disability? WOW I'm sorry I was to have Hip surgery and when I went to pre testing I was admitted for Congestive heart Failure 2 1/2 weeks in the ICU had the surgery and can not raise my leg three inch off the ground without pain Long story short unable to do things anymore gained 65 pounds now Diabetic !!!! you make it seem like fat people or overweight people do this on purpose or self-induced stupidity"


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

I think this has gone off topic. The discussion was DA's not doing their jobs.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Ron Y said:


> I think this has gone off topic. The discussion was DA's not doing their jobs.


one of my replies Was DA"s are looking for plea deals in most cases a high rate of convections is a plus for their careers looks good on a resume so some people get a lesser sentence then what they should I think this quote bears repeating
If violent crime is to be curbed it is only the intended victim who can do it. The criminal does not fear the police. The felon fears neither the judge or the jury. therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim


Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper USMC


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Upland said:


> one of my replies Was DA"s are looking for plea deals in most cases a high rate of convections is a plus for their careers looks good on a resume so some people get a lesser sentence then what they should I think this quote bears repeating
> If violent crime is to be curbed it is only the intended victim who can do it. The criminal does not fear the police. The felon fears neither the judge or the jury. therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim
> 
> 
> Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper USMC


Yep


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Dave_E said:


> Ol' Whiskers,
> Interesting take above.
> What do you think about fat people that become diabetic because they're fat, then claim to be disabled?
> What about smokers that end up with COPD or worse?
> Should they qualify for "therapeutic relief from self-induced stupidity" in the form of government disability?


NO!
Being fat is a choice. Smoking is a choice. It’s extremely unfair that the working class has to continually pay high taxes and insurance rates for other peoples terrible choices in life.


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

Dave_E said:


> Ol' Whiskers,
> Interesting take above.
> What do you think about fat people that become diabetic because they're fat, then claim to be disabled?
> What about smokers that end up with COPD or worse?
> Should they qualify for "therapeutic relief from self-induced stupidity" in the form of government disability?



DaveE,

The remark you quoted was made within the context of the tread topic Soft On Crime. 

The answer started with a statement of opinion on our government's responsibility to fend for those honorably discharged from military service. 

The second line expressed an opinion within the context of the original on the continued


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

sorry, hands snd eyes are mot very good at this, lost the balance of the reply. If you misread my post and want to discuss another topic, please start another thread. If you're looking to get me wound up, forget it.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

bobk said:


> NO!
> Being fat is a choice. Smoking is a choice. It’s extremely unfair that the working class has to continually pay high taxes and insurance rates for other peoples terrible choices in life.


I agree with what you’re saying however if you’re under the age of 62 and have no insurance it doesn’t cost the tax payer any money. The hospital eats the bill or charges the patient at that point. If you’re over 62 and have Medicare then they pay a percentage. Keep in mind that over 25% of Americans 65 or older are diabetic, and that’s not necessarily self induced. Smoking is a completely different subject but we still have an older generation that grew up smoking compared to the generation that has been informed of its negative side effects. I really don’t think these issues cost the tax payers as much as people think.


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## One guy and a boat (Aug 8, 2018)

Apologies to Upland for going off topic. 

Kip


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

bobk said:


> NO!
> Being fat is a choice. Smoking is a choice. It’s extremely unfair that the working class has to continually pay high taxes and insurance rates for other peoples terrible choices in life.


really I would agree about smoking but seriously 
Is obesity is a choice?


When it comes to obesity, multiple factors are at play, many of which are beyond your control, including genetics, childhood habits, medical conditions, and hormones. Though *becoming overweight or developing obesity may not be a choice* and shedding excess weight may be difficult,

*SUMMARY *Weight
gain is a common side effect of many medications, including diabetes drugs,
antidepressants, and antipsychotics. 

*SUMMARY*
Leptin resistance is common in people with
obesity. Your brain doesn’t sense the leptin that is produced and thinks that
you’re starving. This causes a powerful physiological drive to eat more. 

NOT A CHOICE 

and not sure what this has to do with Crime But I just thought I would add this for food for thought Pun Intended


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Was hoping this one would get back on topic on its own which is crime. It hasn't!
There are 'legal' addictions...overeating, smoking(cigs), drinking etc. that have nothing to do with thread topic. 
Obviously...with the amount of people killed by drunk drivers every year...alcohol addiction could be one of those legal vices that could get into the criminal side of the discussion.
There are 'illegal' addictions that are crimes and would be on topic.

Bottom line...let's please bring this one back on topic.
Thanks.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

with the media movies and video's both music and games that more or less Glorify the life style of selling Drug Kids Hell adults even look to selling drugs most start using IMO I think as mentioned before Harder Sentencing Three strikes and prison for life or possible Death sentence for people that have died at the hands of them selling 

People on death row and those that are sent to death row Execute them PUBLICLY this may seem Gross and Cruel to some But it would be a Deterrent to a lot of people that look to a life in crime as Glamorous


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

They should be punished the same way they did to their victims. Only fair.....


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## Fish4Dale (Dec 19, 2014)

Seems to be the plan in the big Cities. 
Certain billionaire pumping money into
getting puppet D.A.s
Intsalled to turn criminals right back out on the streets.
While the media and a clown in Washington preach to us that the reason for all the crime and shootings are all due to racial injustices and our legal guns !
Always the issue gets
twisted around and becomes the fault of the working population !
Sure as heck. Can't place the blame on the criminal.


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