# Sick and Tired on Manufacturing! I have to find a way out!



## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

This morning was the straw that broke the Camels Back! 

anyone who works in Manufacturing will relate with my "Rant"..... 

let me start by saying i have been in Manufacturing off and on since i started working but have spent most of my working life in it. worked for a company for 12 years until they moved to Mexico in 2005 to be near their customers who had previously moved there. being a Union shop was NOT a reason for them leaving. was paid good, good benefits, seniority, and like everyone else there figured i would retire from there. 

left there, and a year later was back in Manufacturing (CNC Machining)where i didnt want to be but unfortunately was the only option for me at the time. was being paid less, worked 12 hour shifts 5 days a week 5pm-530am, but it was a job. had intentions on not staying there long but while there bought a house, had a kid, and got married so had to stay put until i found something better, or at least until the wife could return to work then maybe get into something else. 

back in October i changed jobs finally after 5 years, i thought for the good but it has turned into the same old BS and worse than the last job! wanted a job working less hours a day so i could spend more time with my kid and wife (and fishing of course), and start living a normal life again. 

they hired me during their "slow month" so it looked really good. after that slow month though it ramped back up and we are now on 6 days a week 10hrs a day (night shift) from now until October. i now know October is their "Slow Month" at 48-50hrs a week) after being there a while i learned its like this every year. most that are there that have been there a while are pill heads or drunks and are physically broken down. i can see why! in 3 months it has taken its toll on me too, lifting 50-80lb parts over 300 times a shift. at 40yrs old i cant do this much longer. been looking at leaving but everywhere i look in my line of work and apply at the hours are 12hr a day, sometimes more, 6 and 7 days a week! didnt realize it but in those 12 years in the "Union shop" the rest of the Manufacturing world had went through a big change. gone are the 8hr day, 40hr work week. 

i read articles about how people are worked like this in 3rd world countries in manufacturing and how appaullable it is but its going on right here too! 

do they not realize people have families? kids? A LIFE? 

the straw that BROKE the Camles back happened tonight.....

as usual, unlike the others, i get there 30-40 minutes early, talk the the day shift guys about whats going on, get orders together, everything setup, pretty much everything i would have taken the first 30-40 minutes of me being "Paid" to do done before i start. at the bell i am off and running and only stop twice in ten hours to take a coffee break. oh yeah, we dont get a lunch either....2-ten minute breaks in ten hours! 

its all good though, i keep working and end up shutting down about a half hour early with way more parts done, every night, than anyone on days. even got word at one point no one has even ran as many parts i have on the particular machines i run. i then clean up (i am anal about a clean area) and chill for about 5 minutes. 

well, word got to the boss from "somebody" (a Snitch!) that i am not doing anything 5 minutes before clocking out every day. seen the boss come in this morning and kept hovering around my area and just knew something was up. as usual, i "Chill" that last 5 minutes and he comes over griping about me stopping work early and told me to grab a broom. at that point i took off my glasses and had a little quiet word with him about WHY i was done early. he was taken aback and didnt say anything at first while i grabbed my coat. as i was putting my coat on he had the nerve to ask "why you got a bad attitude this morning"? i just said "see you tomorrow" and walked off. 

most places i have worked in this line of work, other than the Union shop have been like this. i am sure most in Manufacturing can relate. those who have never "been there" will never understand. 

i am SICK of being treated like an Animal,

I am SICK of being worked like a robot, 

SICK of not spending time with my kid and wife, 

i am SICK of the Manufacturing field

i WILL find a way out!


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Just remember - you work to live, not live to work. You're kids are only going to live once, but you've gotta pay the bills...the bills will always be there, their youth will not.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Many people these days feel your pain, it is like that almost everywhere now! 
Almost 1/3rd of the US population was in the Manufacturing sector without a college degree and making "Good Money"...with those jobs now gone, companies that are left are able to pay what they want and treat people how they want.....and, there are alot of workers struggling! 
Americans are fighting for their jobs against low paid workers in other countries...with the job market still depressed, companies have a list of people that are willing to do anything right now to feed their families and pay the bills! Most companies will rather pay OT then hire someone else and have to pay benefits...face it, to a company...you are just a number AND you are expendable. The problem with that...for you...is exactly what you are facing!!
There is not alot we can do now...the economy will have to improve, companies will have to start spending the cash they are hoarding, and companies will have to start hiring, before people will find "better" jobs and be able to move around, then things will settle down....if that ever happens!!!


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## Red1 (May 3, 2011)

I was told that I had bad attitude by the plant manager one time, my reply to him was yes I do but I didnt bring it with me it was developed on your watch,that shut him up.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

I hear you.I worked for 32 years in the machine shop field and my body is shot!
Its a good trade,but the hours can take their toll.
Most good machinists are pretty sharp.Maybe you could stay in machining,but transfer your skills into another area such as purchasing or estimating/scheduling.


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## Stampede (Apr 11, 2004)

I feel for ya,been a cnc / setup operator since 96.Been on both ends,shop super ,lead man , worker.And since 96 it's been standard 10 hr days,6 days a week.The money;s good but you miss a lot of life.You look around one day and realise youre wore out.Got lucky and have a 40hr job now ,for the past almost 3 yrs ,but your right ,years of lifting heavy bar stock,tubs of parts,lots of repettive motion.standing and being on concrete all day takes it,s toll.This business,in every shop i know .it,s all about production,production,production.Tough business.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

sbreech said:


> Just remember - you work to live, not live to work. You're kids are only going to live once, but you've gotta pay the bills...the bills will always be there, their youth will not.


That used to be "The American Way"...but that is not true any longer! 

My father could never understand why my wife and I struggled after she was layed off...he was a Teamster truck driver his whole career (42 years). His house payment was $56 dollars a month until he refinanced and it went to $262 a month which he paid off early...he made fantastic money for the time, and the dollar was WORTH MORE and EVERYTHING was cheaper.
Now wages have dropped, the COE has skyrocketed, a decent home is still close to 1000 bucks a month, and IT DOES take 2 incomes if you want to live a decent life and provide a little extra for your kids! 
Now,....you do what you can...For most people, they wish it was as simple as your statement...but that is not reality anymore!


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

the last place i worked before i had to go on disibility, i had worked for them for 24 years. and i really liked working there, the guys i worked with were good guys. or most of them anyway. then about 10 or 12 yrs after i started they started talking about closing the doors. i just worried all the time and was afraid to buy a new car or anything. then after about 6 yrs of that i settled down and just said if they close they close. we had a 30 and out retirement. then the finelly came down and said we could do a employee buy out or they would close. so we went esop. then we found out our retirement fund was about 3 million under funded. then when we finelly ended up going bankrupt. so we lost our retirement. they paid out what was in the fund. but it wasnt much. they paid out based on years worked and your age. this one guy had the same time i did but he was older. he got 48000.00 and i got 22000.00. this one woman had quit with 17 years in. she was older than me so she got 36000.00. i didnt like the way it was paid out at all. this one guy had 29 yrs and 10 months. he only got 54000.00 because he had started work at 17 so he was only 47 yrs old

the last 3 or 4 yrs i worked there i worked between 70 to 100 hrs just about every week. and the last 10 yrs i worked there i hated that place with a passion. but i needed to work someplace. and it was almost impossable to find a job around here, all the big factories had closed up, and there just wasnt anything.

i had only went through the 6th grade in school when we moved to indiana from tenn, so my mom could find work. well i found a job to help my mom with my other 4 brothers and 2 sisters, and just never went back to school. well i did go back for 2 weeks once and injured my foot playing basket ball. then i just went back to work to help out. then i got my ged while in the marine corps. then i started going to ivy tech for photography, but before i got half way through the class i got bumped at work and had to go back to working afternoons. and thats when they had the classes i needed. besides just the photography i had to take english math and phycology classes. but i didnt have any spiecial training to help me find a jod. and i couldnt just quit work because i had a wife and was raising 2 sons.

then is sept 2002 i was having all kinds of health problems, bad heart, bad legs, and suffering from post tramatic stress disorder, and depression, so one day on the 2nd of sept 2002 i went to my doctor and after the appointment he looked at me and said im going to have to take you off work, you need to file for your disibility. i hated that so bad but was so relieved to be out of that factory, i was just torn in half. one part of me wanted to keep working at something, and another part of me was so happy to never have to go back in that factory where i had been miserable for the last 8 or 10 yrs.

the factory did close that december. they let everybody go home for christmas break, then contacted them and told them to not come back to work. thats just the kind of people that had bought us out of bank ruptsy.

to make a long story short, which i can see i didnt do,LOL. but yes i feel your pain. i was working 14 hrs a day during the week then working 16 to 24 hrs on sat and sometimes on sun. and i hated going in that place, but it put a roof over our heads, clothed us, and fed us for the better part of the time i worked there. i had been laid off a few times, but always went back when they called.

if you can find something you like and can make a living at it, then i say get out while you can. the longer you are there the harder it is to leave. and you never know from one day to the next if they are going to be there for you. you could go home today and find out tomorrow you dont have a jod. and if you are real unhappy with your job now it probably wont get any better. just my opinion from being there and doing that.

real sorry for such a long post and crying on everybodies shoulders,LOL.
sherman


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> That used to be "The American Way"...but that is not true any longer!
> 
> My father could never understand why my wife and I struggled after she was layed off...he was a Teamster truck driver his whole career (42 years). His house payment was $56 dollars a month until he refinanced and it went to $262 a month which he paid off early...he made fantastic money for the time, and the dollar was WORTH MORE and EVERYTHING was cheaper.
> Now wages have dropped, the COE has skyrocketed, a decent home is still close to 1000 bucks a month, and IT DOES take 2 incomes if you want to live a decent life and provide a little extra for your kids!
> Now,....you do what you can...For most people, they wish it was as simple as your statement...but that is not reality anymore!


That can be reality. We just need to make it so. My wife and I invested in ourselves early on - education, training, certifications. We hunkered down for a few years and got rid of college debt (before marriage, stayed at home till 24 = smart money.) The house does cost more, the cars do cost more, but we make quite a bit more than our parents did - and living probably about the same level as only our fathers working back in the day. We both work - not EXACTLY the American dream, but close - get the bills paid, work 40 hours per week for the most part, and are able to hit the kid's sporting events, work on homework, have an evening dinner, fish, pick up a new little something here an there. The key is moderation. I'm not for it, but the American work model has changed in the last few years, and to survive, people have to change. I keep hearing on the news everyone wanting the government to do something about their lives. It's not the government's responsibility. It is our own. When my job went overseas back in 2001, manufacturing, NOT UNION, I decided a change needed to take place, and that change was in me. It's my plan, my dream, my goals, so it's my responsibility to pursue. Besides, after last night's infomercial, our president is going to save everyone. 
[/COLOR] 
And Dinkbuster, I wish the best for you. Those hours are bad for a 20 year old, let alone for a 40 year old. A Change should be in heart. You know how rough this is at 40. Imagine at 60. Even if you jump careers and take a pay cut at first, a full time (non physical job) and a part time (non physical job) = easier than a manual labor job.


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

dinkbuster1 said:


> i am SICK of being treated like an Animal,
> 
> I am SICK of being worked like a robot,
> 
> ...



I feel bad for you. And I can relate. And you are (unfortunately) in the same boat that many other Americans are in. Man have things changed for the worker. And I hope you get through this phase of your life/career successfully. 

My father was a union Millwright. (Millwrights work on equipment used in the manufacturing and processing and power generation systems.) He owned his home/didn't have a mortgage since his early thirties, raised four kids on one income, and amassed hundreds of thousands of dollars with the wages that he earned as a regular Millwright. All the while and throughout his career, he could take the time for camping trips. Or just lounge around the house for some well needed rest away from the rat race.

Now on the other hand. I am in the same career, and belong to the same Millwright union. But now the post 1980s generation of adults have been dealt a different set of cards. After adjusting for inflation, I would have to make over $100,000.00 per year to live the life style that my parents have enjoyed. And I am in the exact same business as my father. When my father was working, the CEO's made about 42-times what the average wage earner made. And for the last several years the CEO's have been making hundreds and hundreds of times what the average wage earner makes. This isn't complaining. It's just a fact.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

sbreech said:


> That can be reality. We just need to make it so. My wife and I invested in ourselves early on - education, training, certifications. We hunkered down for a few years and got rid of college debt (before marriage, stayed at home till 24 = smart money.) The house does cost more, the cars do cost more, but we make quite a bit more than our parents did - and living probably about the same level as only our fathers working back in the day. We both work - not EXACTLY the American dream, but close - get the bills paid, work 40 hours per week for the most part, and are able to hit the kid's sporting events, work on homework, have an evening dinner, fish, pick up a new little something here an there. The key is moderation. I'm not for it, but the American work model has changed in the last few years, and to survive, people have to change. I keep hearing on the news everyone wanting the government to do something about their lives. It's not the government's responsibility. It is our own. When my job went overseas back in 2001, manufacturing, NOT UNION, I decided a change needed to take place, and that change was in me. It's my plan, my dream, my goals, so it's my responsibility to pursue. Besides, after last night's infomercial, our president is going to save everyone.
> [/COLOR]
> And Dinkbuster, I wish the best for you. Those hours are bad for a 20 year old, let alone for a 40 year old. A Change should be in heart. You know how rough this is at 40. Imagine at 60. Even if you jump careers and take a pay cut at first, a full time (non physical job) and a part time (non physical job) = easier than a manual labor job.




Agreed, ....my wife was a UAW worker and when she was layed off was lucky enough to have been offered a FREE education from the NAFTA "Jobs Bill"...she went to school and got her nursing degree...it has been a blessing! Things were tight for awhile but we survived ONLY BECAUSE I still had a good job! 
Most people now, can't afford to take the job hit and the college costs! This is where I think the government should step in...If a company has moved production due to NAFTA, SAFTA, FEFTA, MEFTA, or any other --FTA, they should have to pay or help pay for college or re-training of the job force that was effected! These Companies are now sitting on Trillions of dollars in Profits!


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

I can feel your pain Dinkbuster, the last job I had (Burial Vault Company ) was the worst one I've ever had and I was completely miserable while there. It was a six days a week job and sometimes a seven days a week job. I'm not a big guy by any standard ( 135lbs ) and it was rough on me handling the vaults ( concrete ) day in and day out. Not to mention the probably 5-7 miles a day that I had to walk to get everything set up for the funerals and getting the vaults into the ground and sealed once the funeral was over. Wasn't physical all the time but like I said I'm not a big guy. The physical part wasn't as bad as the mental part atleast for me. I worked with people that was to put it in nice terms......ignorant and petty. Hated even being around them and figured it out at the end that they and the owners of the company made me unhappy. I can say it now, I was glad that I got fired for standing up for myself. 

Now I'm back in the manufacturing industry and I like my job very much. Like running hydraulic and manual presses, setting up the jobs to run, getting to play with a big forklift ( lol ) and like the people (except for a very select few) that I work with.I do run some parts that are pretty heavy at times but my supervisor is good about not trying to kill us by making us run thoses jobs day in and day out, he does switch us up which is beneficial to us the worker, and the company. Nobody is getting burnt out doing the exact same parts day in and day out which is a huge plus. O.T. is optional when it's offered which suits me fine. I work 40 hrs a week or more if I feel like it when it's offered. They keep us updated weekly on how things are going which to me is a good thing. The owner (public figure ) routinely comes in and will chat with us asking us how things are going or could be better. We get monthly gainsharing checks when we hit certain goals in sales so that's like a bonus for me seeing how I've never had that available to me before. I could be in a one in a million places right now but the inner optimist in me wants to believe my shop isn't the only one out there that can make their money, I can make mine ( isn't great but not shabby ),and we can have lives outside of those walls. Keep your chin up because you never know when a better opportunity will arise.


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

16 years on 2nd shift and a long way from dayshift still. very glad i am on 2nd(only 1 boss) and he is easy. working 6/60 ever since the obama cash for clunkers bill. prolly would have never made it this long if i was not in a union. (SWA) prolly would have never made it this long if i were on days. some machines have cameras focused on them so the plant manager can watch what goes on. had a camera on my machine for almost 2 years . glad they took it down. felt like i was in a prison camp.


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## Wannabitawerm (Apr 13, 2004)

I am an auto worker. I make less on 50 hours now than I did 6 years ago on 40 hours. The media says we make money hand over fist. The section of the line I work in had 9 jobs 2 1/2 years ago. We do the same work with 5 jobs now and we average 4 more jobs per your than we did then. We gave up cost of living and they refuse to give it back. And if you hire in and work next to me, it may be 20 years before you make more than $14 per hour. The problem is, if the auto companies could, they would fire us all and hire a new work force so they could cut costs. The union is the only reason that hasn't happened yet. It's a brutal world out there. 


Ain't technology great? Now I can be distracted by fishing everywhere I go!


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## Perch (Apr 5, 2004)

I have been in Manufacturing for 22 years , with the same company. Fortunately for me I was transferred into Operations after about 7 years.........I stuck with it and I'm glad I did. You seem like a bright guy, any chance they would look at you for the inside?


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## billk (Feb 2, 2008)

I hear what you're saying and understand why you're ticked off.

That being said, just be grateful you're drawing a paycheck each week. The alternative sucks so face it - it's a different working world today than it was even 10 years ago. We've all been treated like crap and shafted in one way or another in this world. 

My father spent 25 years as a Maintenance welder, working 8-10hrs a day, 7 days a week in some of the nastiest conditions around (foundry) and never complained a word.


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## jeffjenkins1 (Oct 17, 2010)

I got out of it in 1998. I was a fitter and welder making machines for steel mills. It got to the point where we would get frames in from mexico and china and I would spend all day cutting them apart and fixing them. My boss said it was cheaper than him hiring someone to keep up with production.

That's when I decided to take the A+ certification and go into IT. Never looked back. Yeah, I have had jobs that expected you to be on call 24x7x365... I just waited it out until something better came up.

Think about what else you could be doing, maybe a tech that fixes the machines you have been using all these years. Or managing a group of machinist. Or do like I did, I just found a little company that only does prototypes that needed an IT guy. There is something out there, you just have to beat the bushes and see what comes out.

Jeff


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## russ9054 (May 4, 2011)

Dinkbuster you are exactly right. The owners of these companies know exactly what they can get away with. Its all about the bottom line for them. I used to work a manufacturing job running several cnc mills. The owners had no drug screening and 90% of there employees had substance abuse problems. They hired D.P.s that were just happy to work even at low wages.(the DPs were good people, many worked 2 full time jobs.) as far as the others (drug addicts/felons/many without highschool degrees) the owner new he could use and abuse his work force.
To make a long story short, i had worked there over a year and hated the way i was treated and my fellow employees were treated and had enough. The owner was a micro manager and one day he was having one on one meetings with some of his employees. When it was my turn, he told me i could speak freely AND BOY DID I !!!! He asked me about any ideas i had to improve production, quality, and employee moral. I told him plain and simple, "Your employees are fed up with the low wages and most are still working at there hiring wage from years ago." his response was " all the employees get a christmas bonus". I told him people dont want a couple hundred bucks at the end of the year, they want more money in there pay checks every week so they dont have to depend on your bonus for freaking christmas presents. I told him the employees were miserable and that he didnt hire a dumby and i was not blind to what is going on there and told him he was one step away from being a slave owner and should be ashamed of 
himself. Needless to say he was startled, i apologized for being so blunt and he told me he would think about what i'd said.
A few hours later i was called into his office with my supervisor. They asked me if i would leave and in exchange they would give me my "bonus" and give me full unemployment benifits. I got the impression he was afraid of a strike. I SIGNED THE CONTRACT AND LEFT THAT HOLE.
Now as far as you finding a new job, I would hire a professional resume writer because after so long of doing what you been doing Im sure you know more that just that specific job and you and these people will put together a caricula vite' for you. Dont be affraid of applying for jobs that you think your not good enough for, reach for the stars you have nothing to loose, Also you may want start some college courses, potential employers will like to see your working to expand your knowledge even if you dont have a degree yet(business managment will help you get into a superviser role). Tri-c offers on-line courses and just have your wife help you if you dont have time. 
Also if you really want this, No Excuses, just get it done. The professional resume writer will cost around $200 but its well worth it. He/she will put your resume and cover letter on internet sites Such as Monster,CareerBuilder, The Labbers etc... Employers will be calling you, I GUARENTEE IT !!!!!! 
If you havent noticed I am somewhat passionate about this subject because im completely disgusted with most manufacturing companies now a days. If you have any questions feel free to PM me, i would be more than glad to help out with questions, advice or ideas. Thanks, Russ


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

First of all - it ain't legal, union or not, to not give breaks regardless of industry. But hey, I'm a salary guy and spent my lunch @ my desk working to hit deadlines that need to happen by the end of the month.

I don't think it is the manufacturing industry per se, but perhaps your employer. I can completely understand you wanting to leave that place. I would.

I guess it could be worse tho. There are a lot of guys who can't support their families who'd love to have a job.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Not only are they not required to provide a lunch break, apparently they don't even have to provide a bathroom break!

http://www.com.ohio.gov/laws/FAQ.aspx

Things are tough all over! I worked over 1000hrs of overtime last year. My company (like most) is trying to do more with far less employees. Their attitude is simply....if you don't like it, we will find someone else that will work for less than you tomorrow. You know what? As long as unemployment is this high...they will find someone desperate enough to do anything. However, as soon as the economy improves....I'm moving to the highest bidder.


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## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

Wow, I read that Rooster, now I understand why the skilled trades are having problems finding qualified people, nobody wants to work under those conditions.
So if your employer doesn't allow bathroom breaks do you takje a 5 gallon bucket to work with you so you have somewhere to squat right at your work station? 
We are certainly headed backwards, looks like we had better keep the unions around like them or not.


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## CatchNrelease (Mar 20, 2011)

A couple years ago I worked in a large meat packing facility. It was 6 tens year round until around October when we had to gear up for the Holiday's. Then we worked 7 days a week 10 hours for 3 months straight without a day off. Talk about a living hell, they wonder why 70 percent of the workforce there was Guatemalan or Mexican. And the pay wasn't much better than minimum wage. 

I started a new job 6 months ago welding making almost 15/hr working 4 tens. Sometimes we work fridays, I don't mind, I can use the extra money. There's alot of not so significant things I could complain about in the shop, but coming from where I've been. Alot of hard manual labored jobs for basically gas money to get there. I'm very grateful for the job I have now. It wasn't fun getting to this point but it made me appreciate this job and not take it for granite.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

you must feel a heck of a lot better now that you typed this rant. typing rants relives frustrations very well.
i feel sorry for you. hope you can find a better job of some type.


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## Taco (Jan 4, 2009)

If you're really wanting to go a whole new direction I'd suggest starting with a personal balance sheet. Inventory everything you own, figure out how much you got, decide if it's worth living a little lean for a couple years (or more) to get training in another field, further your education, or even start your own business. Instead of your career financing your car or boat or guns or whatever, maybe for a while they can finance a new career for you. Not saying you give these things up forever, just suggesting that the answer to your problems may be in your garage...or even is your garage.

Have any questions or need some help with the balance sheet, send me a pm...I'd be happy to assist. I do one every year, takes just an hour or two.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

I feel your pain. i'm a manager in the manufacturing field. Of course it's no better on top. The demands keeps growing and the powers to be don't want to hire any new people.
A few years ago I had a heart operation and have learned at 1 point you have to put your foot down, it just isn't worth it. In a conversation one of the owners was saying I wasn't getting "something" done. I told him we need to have more people and he said I should figure on working Saturdays. I said no and if it were a requirement of my job he should hire my replacement. I built the place up from 16,000sf w/5 employees to 125,000sf w/over 20 in the last 8 years dispite the recession. Now since the operation and a host of new drugs my blood pressure has begun creeping back up a few points and my doc's are telling me to de-stress so I"ve been cutting back to around 42-45 hours. I turned 60 a few months ago and only plan on playing manager until I'm 62. I can't retire but it's time for someone younger to take over. Now they worry I will retire but I can't afford it so they asked if I would have a problem training my replacement, I said I would do it. I still need a job but I'm not going to die doing it. I hope I'll still have some kind of job.
I've done manufacturing for 36 years, I started out driving a truck and worked my way up.

The owners of the company are decent guys and treat us pretty good but at the end of the day manufacturing is a demanding job. Think of all the rants you see where some one isn't getting exceptional delivery or outstanding service, that is fueling all of this.

The business has changed in a lot of ways over the years and I attribute alot of it to the internet and the point and click society we live in. I usually tell most young folks I meet to look into other fields.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

In general can say "been there, done that, got the t-shirt to prove it...." Personally, joined the USN at 18, got into "Aviation Life Support", basically inspecting parachutes, life preservers. At the time was easier to get into nuclear power programs. reason being the reactors were designed to be "idiot proof', ie, screw up badly and it`d just "scram' and shut down. Mess up on a ejection seat parachute costing someone their life and you were GOING to a military prison for 20 yrs, GUARENTEED. Got out after 7 1/2 yrs for working too hard and literally making other persons look bad, actually would volunteer and help out other shops that were under manned. Joined the Guards and became a heavy wheeled vehicle mech. Applied at Navistar 18 times, no felonies, honorable discharges, training ect; never heard from them at all. Go figure. Managed to get on with International Steel Wool in Springfield, only due to them preparing to move to Mexico under NAFTA. Was told would only be there 9 months. Worked in the furnace rm for 11 months, annealling chopped up steel wool, worked every minute of overtime possible. Was offered a machine rm job making steel wool. Worked 18 hr days for 1 yr. Helped close then dismantle the lines. Day was to be let go the furnance rm super walks up and says "Am offering you a job; if you refuse, no unemployment for you." Started to "see RED"; he quickly added "If you can keep quiet, we`ll offer you machine rm pay, (which was $5 more an hr) AND you can still work 18 hr days. We`ll be gone in 3 months." 11 months LATER being the LAST regular hrly employee (other than the Maint guys) finished cleaning up after the last machine left. Liked the company, too bad they "made a run for the border", they went belly up within 14 months. Boilled down to GREED. But, that`s life.


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## MadMac (May 2, 2005)

Worked for a company about 19 years ago that wanted me to be the shop supervisor in a couple years when the current one retired. When I started there it was like walking into the 1950s technology wise. I installed speed controls, IR Safety Devices, etc. Problem was I was the only one that understood how any of it worked. I worked 12 hours a day 7 days a week for a year and a half. During this time my mother was dying from ovarian cancer so I tried to get up to see her every other day or so. It was a 40 minute drive each way. When she past they gave me 3 days off and then right back to the same schedule. Every few weeks I would ask my supervisor how the search for some qualified help was going and got a bs answer every time. It got so bad when my alarm went off I'd get this feeling of dread realizing I had to get to work. I finally called a meeting with the plant manager and asked for a couple 40 hr weeks to get my head together. He kept giving me excuses, offered me more money, said it would only be a few more months, etc. I told him, "You don't understand, if you don't approve a couple 40 hr weeks I'm out of here." He said, "Oh you wouldn't do that." I promptly stood up, shook his hand and said it's been nice working with ya. I went and got my tools and equipment and walked out the door. Two weeks later I ran into a buddy that worked there and he said it was hilarious the next day the plant manager (who nobody ever saw) was out on the floor begging everybody that knew anyone that knew anything about this new stuff to please get them in here asap. I thought, hey maybe they will treat the next guy a little better. Took a month off and went on an 8 day golf vacation in Myrtle Beach with a bunch of retired truck drivers I knew. Got another job for an even bigger manufacturing company and over the last 17 years it has gotten more and more ridiculous. I'm doing what two guys and an operator used to do all by myself. I'm almost 52 and feel like I'm 72. We have forced OT but nothing like that last job. Bottom line is it sucks to have to live like this while the upper management get richer and richer.


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## For my Son (Apr 23, 2007)

education, education, education. I dont know where you live but i am sure there is a community college somewhere near you that can help. In my area the medical field is the place to be. My wife is finishing up her nursing degree in a couple of months and once she starts working i am going back to school full time to get out of manufacturing. I have been a supervisor for almost 15years and the pressure to "make more" has my heart attack waiting to happen. The stress will kill me if I dont get out. Since the economic crash the top guys know they have you by the balls because there arent alot of jobs to be had. when the jobs are available they offer as little as possible so its hard to leave anyplace. Its harder to be without a job though. Good luck to you!!!


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Go to college. Never too late, especially since we're all going to be working into our 80s


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

College certification IS the path to better money. As far as better (less?) hrs, depends on where you end up. I am ALL for "capitalism'; it`s the BEST system going at the moment. But am NOT for the apparently flourishing cult of "profit PLUS" ie, make a generous profit and find EVERY POSSIBLE WAY to "add cost" (unjustified surplus ADDITIONAL profit) to your customers. The idea "GREED is GOOD" is only short term effective until someone else GREEDIER than the 1st guy figures a (barely) legal if immoral way to clench HIS fist even tighter. NO ONE takes it with them, and dying on top of a mountain of money only means their corpse gets rapidly tossed aside while others of their own kind fight over what WAS their`s...I DO believe in "karma", God, Allah, the "Force", what ever you wish to call it, and in the end, as you are in life, so are you drawn to (or claimed by) those same "forces" afterwards. The 1 scene from the movie "Ghost" when the villian dies is probably VERY close to reality...and by then, it`s a too little late to change your mind. If you DO find success, REMEMBER those who labor for you. You cannot BUY loyalty, and it is the BACKBONE of any decent workplace...


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## BuzzBob (Apr 10, 2004)

I started in manufacturing in 1983 assembling lawn mowers for MTD. Now I manage an automotive stamping and welding plant in Akron. I may not be the best manager but since I was "on the other side" I know how it feels to be on your feet for 12 hours a day and work 8 on Saturdays.

Even though we're a UAW plant, to me it doesn't feel like one. I think we average 2 grievances a year and for a plant of 35 workers that's not too bad. I know the handful of guys/ladies that will work OT so when we get behind or get extra work I'll hire additional people instead of trying to kill the ones we have. 

We're a no frills shop and we have a competitive wage but I truly wish it could be higher. Our ownership is on the floor managing or helping out in some ways every single day. I won't go as far as saying it's a family atmosphere but that's our goal. I was lucky to start my career at MTD and I respected the way the Moll family treated their employees and I try to mirror that teaching the best that I can.

So, Dinkbuster, there are companies out there who won't try to kill you. Find one. Also, you sound like you have a great work ethic and I think possibly you would be a good supervisor. If you lived closer, I'd interview you. I'm actually looking for a supervisor right now!

Good luck with your career. I wish you the best of luck.

Bob


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

WOW i see i am not alone! i have a rant about "why" we in this field are in this mess and how to get out of it but i dont want to spend the next 2 hours typing lol. 

it all boils down 3 things IMO. the Dollar not being what it was, Globalization, and GREED! not necesarily the Manufacturing compaies being greedy, but the "Elite" that purpousely created this atmosphere to wrench every last dime they can out of the worlds working class. if things keep going the route that they are we are heading to a 2-Class global society. the Masters and the slaves. at some point it has to stop, and everyone around the GLOBE needs to say "Enough". even a convicted Felon who is trying to re-enter the workforce should be treated like a Human being! the Chinese, Mexicans.... Everyone! 

i understand that companies have been dealt a "Sh***y" hand by our "elected officials and a lot are doing what they have to do to survive, but there are just as many, if not more that have realized how much profit can be made by working to death the least amount of people they can hire and exploit it.

and as much as "going back to school" sounds, that is just not an option at this time for me. we live paycheck to paycheck now, no way i could afford to take off a week, let alone enough time to go to school. now that our son is 3 we may have some free or "affordable" daycare lined up and the wife is now looking for full time employment so i have a little room to play on getting out of Manufacturing.

BTW, just learned this morning we may be going to 7 days a week in 2 weeks. GEEZ!


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Guys I can tell you it isn't just manufacturing.....employers in all industries are forcing employees to do more for less. It is widespread and workers at all levels are being stressed. I know I have a white collar job and I average at least 55 hours a week......I work > 60hrs a week 4 months of the year in addition to that. I have weeks that I nearly 80 hours - yes I said 80! 

Disappearing bonuses, pay-cuts, increased workloads - it has gotten worse and worse the last 10 years. And with a 10% unemployment rate the second you fall down there is somebody waiting to take your place - no matter how bad you think it is somebody needs a paycheck!

I don't have the solution and unfortunately I believe it isn't going to change much. I think this is the way it is now and we have to find a way to adapt.

In reading these posts it sounds as if you guys have had some real bad employers......long hours and demanding performance is expected, but some of them crossed the line. Although I have been asked to do more for less, my employer still treats me with respect and lets me know they value me. That is more important to most of us than an extra $1 an hour and it seems many of these bad employers don't realize that.


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

dinkbuster1 said:


> WOW i see i am not alone! i have a rant about "why" we in this field are in this mess and how to get out of it but i dont want to spend the next 2 hours typing lol.
> 
> it all boils down 3 things IMO. the Dollar not being what it was, Globalization, and GREED! not necesarily the Manufacturing compaies being greedy, but the "Elite" that purpousely created this atmosphere to wrench every last dime they can out of the worlds working class. if things keep going the route that they are we are heading to a 2-Class global society. the Masters and the slaves. at some point it has to stop, and everyone around the GLOBE needs to say "Enough". even a convicted Felon who is trying to re-enter the workforce should be treated like a Human being! the Chinese, Mexicans.... Everyone!
> 
> ...


You're right in saying that everyone DESERVES to be treated like the human being are but some has/will continue to only see the "poor blue collar stiff" when they look at workers. Absolutely right when talking about greed but it's been around for years but IMO it's just more noticeable nowadays. Maybe that's because the media is nonstop, could be that "we" can communicate fatser and easier with more people. There's not a single company that doesn't want to make the most money that they can and I can't fault them for that but I can fault them for it when it puts people at risk either through unsafe working conditions or by over working them constantly ( and that goes back to unsafe conditions IMO).

My wife works fulltime ( 32hrs is her fulltime ) and I work fulltime (40hr+ OT if offered and I choose to do so) and we basically live paycheck to paycheck. My little boy goes to daycare 4 days a week and that cost kills me ($424+ monthly) but it has to be done in order for us both to work fulltime jobs. I'm absoluetly ready for him to be old enough to start school because then that means no more daycare costs for me,YAAAAAHHHHHHOOOOOOOO. I can fully understand why you haven't made the move just yet and trust me when I say "Dude I know where you're coming from".

Keep your chin up and remember the good things in life and don't let the crap part of it all get you down. I used to be a very sour person about life, people, the way the world is until I had no job and got screwed on my unemployment. I had a epiphany while being Mr.Mom while she was at work and trying to find another job, lifes too damn short to dwell on the negative. I'm much more positive than I was before and much more happy. Not trying to say that's how you are at all just relating my personal experience.


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

Fish-N-Fool said:


> Guys I can tell you it isn't just manufacturing.....employers in all industries are forcing employees to do more for less. It is widespread and workers at all levels are being stressed. I know I have a white collar job and I average at least 55 hours a week......I work > 60hrs a week 4 months of the year in addition to that. I have weeks that I nearly 80 hours - yes I said 80!
> 
> Disappearing bonuses, pay-cuts, increased workloads - it has gotten worse and worse the last 10 years. And with a 10% unemployment rate the second you fall down there is somebody waiting to take your place - no matter how bad you think it is somebody needs a paycheck!
> 
> ...


I think there's some people out there that never even thought about the "White Colllar" guys having the same problems as the "Blue Collar" guys when it comes to the job situations nowadays. Like you said it's affecting all industries now and not just the manufacturing segment. Will it ever change? I hope so not for my/our sake but for our kids sake because as a parent don't we all want our kids to have it better than we've had it.


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## chadwimc (Jun 27, 2007)

These economic times are cyclical. This too shall pass. Lotsa people left northern Ohio for good in the late 70s/early80s simply because the jobs were gone. As in "forever".

If your employers were as greedy as some claim, your jobs would be in Mexico or China.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Rooster said:


> Not only are they not required to provide a lunch break, apparently they don't even have to provide a bathroom break!
> 
> http://www.com.ohio.gov/laws/FAQ.aspx
> 
> Things are tough all over! I worked over 1000hrs of overtime last year. My company (like most) is trying to do more with far less employees. Their attitude is simply....if you don't like it, we will find someone else that will work for less than you tomorrow. You know what? As long as unemployment is this high...they will find someone desperate enough to do anything. However, as soon as the economy improves....I'm moving to the highest bidder.


YIKES! Nevermind....


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

the one thing i,ve learned, if you look around hard enough ,you,ll find somebody in worse shape than you are.
sherman


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## PapawSmith (Feb 13, 2007)

spfldbassguy said:


> There's not a single company that doesn't want to make the most money that they can


This is entirely untrue and a perfect example of the deliberate miss-characterization of "all" business people and employers by those that strive to drive that wedge between Employers and Employees. Many business owners and managers could be very wealthy SOB's if they were just that, SOB's. While there are plenty that have no concern or compassion for the worker they do not make up the majority. Manufacturing is a tough business and has always been. I can not begin to defend some of the examples that some of you have mentioned but I can say that, at least in the manufacturing industry, some of those practices have been around a long time. I grew up in a Detroit suburb and in our neighborhood there were auto parts Mfr's in the 70's that routinely hired 14-17 year old kids to run their stamping and cutting machinery. They would work these kids ridiculous hours and even over night on week/school nights. I had many friends that worked there at one time or another. A few with missing digits or other lifetime scars too.They got paid little and their checks would only reflect 24 hours pay to make their employment legal. After years of this practice authorities caught on put an end to it. When these plants hired adults at increased pay they quickly folded. This was at the early stages of the manufacturing jobs moving south and overseas and an early indication of the impact this would bring. Rapidly deteriorating working conditions and pay along with increased demand on workers in order to compete with foreign wages that are often as low as 10% or less than Americas minimum wage. By saying this I'm not defending any of the current employment practices you guys are talking about just indicating it has been around a while and, whether we like it or not, there is a valid basis for its origination, even though I believe not a valid excuse for its implementation. I do not have the answers that would make today's domestic manufacturing industry competitive and, at the same time, preserve a family/household sustaining wage and fair and safe working conditions. I can say that the current unfavorable conditions have a lot more to do with survival than greed like so many believe. These "fat cats, greedy owners, elites, and such" are out there but not near as common as the "dividers" in our country would have you believe. And, so you know, while they are despised by the workers they are equally despised by the rest of the business world because their practices drag down the entire program, not just the workers wages. We are fortunately successful in our industry but have seen our profit margin decline by about 60% in the last 5-6 years. That is an impact that we must somehow manage if we want to keep our doors open and provide an income for ourselves, our employees, and their families. We have been able to do that so far, by and large by working 80 hour weeks so we can find 40 hours of work each week for all of our employees. Most business owners and operators function just like we do today. There are a lot more variables that impact a businesses ability to operate competitively today than most would realize. And there are far less "Elites" out there that want everything you can give them for free than most would realize. While those idiots for sure exist, there is a lot more hardworking, honest, compassionate, and dedicated individuals out there that risk everything they own every day when they open their doors, and commit stupid amounts of the hours in their days to try to provide a nice living for their own as well as all their employees families. Way more of those folks than most would ever guess. Just my opinion on this of course, albiet I believe an informed one. I better stop now before WOW accuses me of "flapping my lips" again. I still can't believe he said that. LOL


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

Well said Papaw Smith!


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

we need a shipping guy on 2nd shift @ $16.00 an hour w/ union benefits. we can not get one for the last 8 months. they work a day and quit ,or this past 1 never showed up for the first day. seems like no one really wants to work?


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## jiggerman (Nov 2, 2009)

Amen PawPaw Smith.


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## bad luck (Apr 9, 2009)

dinkbuster1 said:


> This morning was the straw that broke the Camels Back!
> 
> anyone who works in Manufacturing will relate with my "Rant".....
> 
> ...



I was there. Now to be the unpopular guy.....if you dont like it, quit. Cut your cost of living down. Go be unemployed and unable to pay your bills for about 6 months, see if you feel worse then.....you will, but at least you'll be able to play with your kid. I decided to work a couple of crap full time jobs, went to school, had ZERO life for about 6 or 7 years, but it paid off...literally. Don't be afraid to take drastic steps. Anybody who thinks in today's day and age you can rely on a mfg job to "make it" is misguided. Only constant in life is change, so just roll with it. 

Just remember, there's somebody jobless out there, or making less than you, or in a bad way health wise would gladly trade places with you.


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## FSHNERIE (Mar 5, 2005)

Intimidator said:


> Agreed, ....my wife was a UAW worker and when she was layed off was lucky enough to have been offered a FREE education from the NAFTA "Jobs Bill"...she went to school and got her nursing degree...it has been a blessing! Things were tight for awhile but we survived ONLY BECAUSE I still had a good job!
> Most people now, can't afford to take the job hit and the college costs! This is where I think the government should step in...If a company has moved production due to NAFTA, SAFTA, FEFTA, MEFTA, or any other --FTA, they should have to pay or help pay for college or re-training of the job force that was effected! These Companies are now sitting on Trillions of dollars in Profits!




Union people wine all the time. Do your home work......Who signed NAFTA ??


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## seapro (Sep 25, 2007)

FSHNERIE said:


> Union people wine all the time. Do your home work......Who signed NAFTA ??


It was Bill Clinton........who was reaching across the table to appease the Republicans. I'm not a Democrat either........Independent......I just know my facts!. 

I wonder though, what would happen if Chinese employees had a union that could represent them? Might make the average wage greater then $0.31/hour... which could maybe help us to be able to compete??? 

As long as we have to compete with that wage scale, we will keep losing the battle unless our technology can offset the difference. 

I know one thing, as long as we stay divided, we lose! This takes unity to fix! There is a reason politicians try and keep the division going, whether it be between the rich and the poor or the corporations versus the unions or the Democrats versus the Republicans..... ect...,.ect.., 

It's up to us.......whether we work for them.......or they work for us. 
Again, the reason I'm an Independent.


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## russ9054 (May 4, 2011)

freyedknot said:


> we need a shipping guy on 2nd shift @ $16.00 an hour w/ union benefits. we can not get one for the last 8 months. they work a day and quit ,or this past 1 never showed up for the first day. seems like no one really wants to work?


Where's that at?


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

I have been following this thread for a while now and was just not sure how to respond but here goes. I was a machinist for many years and did like my job. My complaints were exactly what I am hearing here too. Long hours, low wages for the amount of skill it takes and very hard on the mental and physical ends. Owners were allways stressed and it was cut throat in almost every shop. I got pretty good at the programing side of cnc but felt my pay did not match up to the product I was bringing to the table. 4 years ago I told my family I was going to apply for another job in mfg but in sales. I went to the mfg of the machines I ran and asked if they would be interested in someone with my skills. I took a job with them in sales.
I was always the guy runing from sales salesman and here I was now one my self.
To adress the problems I am hearing here I would like to add this. I talk to 50 machine shop owners ever week and almost everyone tells me they can not find anyone that wants to learn this trade. We are BOOMING in Ohio right as far as mfg goes and don't have the people to keep up which leads to overworking the current staff. Something needs to be done to keep mfg alive in Ohio and needs to start with training WILLING people and adjusting the pay to skill level. 20 years ago a skilled machinist was making exactly what a skilled machinist is making today with more responsibility and less benefits. I will hate for my daughter to get into mfg with the way things are going now


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

Cant argue with what Pawpaw said, and Seapro i cant agree more. everyone must be united in this mess or we will be kept in this position or in worse shape.


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## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

I too am a machinist at a place that wants you to work 12 hr days, and 7 days a week. Although overtime is optional, they ask every single week. It wasn't bad when I worked third shift, didn't miss much. We are a union shop I get paid pretty good, and when you work the OT the money is really good. But.......I am a "new" guy and I have been on every shift in less than 8 months! I am now on second shift and I HATE it!!! 

I told them when I interviewed that second shift was not an option, and I was told I would train on every shift. No problem. Yeah right, I can't get a straight answer out of anyone in the whole place. I have a family and don't see my kids until the weekend!

As far as the physical part, I'm not saying my place is any worse than anyone else's but we run the largest lathes you'll ever see I promise you that!! Huge paper rolls up to and over 100k pounds. And you can imagine the wrenches that accompany those things. It will mess you up!!

I am very grateful to have a job that offers the hours they do but, since being on second shift ( 240 -1100) I have not worked one hour of overtime, and will not anytime soon. I like to see my family once in a while.


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## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

FSHNERIE said:


> Union people wine all the time. Do your home work......Who signed NAFTA ??


My shop is Union and most people there wish we were not. Waste of money, where does my 53 dollars go? What a crock of ..... There are a few guys in the shop that are all for it. I say way back when unions were needed. Now? I'd rather speak for myself and keep my 53 dollars thank you.


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## 9dodgefan (Jul 11, 2009)

I feel bad that you are an able bodied person that is forced to work such horrible hours, coupled with a terrible boss. I cannot believe these corporations who invest capital and risk, would not want to pay you $50 an hour and offer 2 hour lunch breaks. I mean, we ask them for a job, so we should be entitled to whatever conditions we want, right?


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## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

9dodgefan said:


> I feel bad that you are an able bodied person that is forced to work such horrible hours, coupled with a terrible boss. I cannot believe these corporations who invest capital and risk, would not want to pay you $50 an hour and offer 2 hour lunch breaks. I mean, we ask them for a job, so we should be entitled to whatever conditions we want, right?


Right! Where can I get one of these jobs?............


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

idontknow316 said:


> My shop is Union and most people there wish we were not. Waste of money, where does my 53 dollars go? What a crock of ..... There are a few guys in the shop that are all for it. I say way back when unions were needed. Now? I'd rather speak for myself and keep my 53 dollars thank you.


i hate them too,but glad i have it. w/o it ,they could show you the door on any given day for hardly a reason. just to give a relative your job.


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

russ9054 apply at a.j.rose mfg.com


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

If a company just breaks even, I mean not one dollar in profit, not one in the negative even can they give themselves and their employees a decent lifestyle? Probably not IMO, point being is that they want to make the most money possible because then they have more money to give themselves and their employees a better lifestyle through being able to offer better wages. Can I fault them for wanting to do so? What I can fault them for is when they (not all of them do this) do so at the point of harming their employees.There's a line that it turns to greed after a while and that is bad and do I think that that's all there is is greedy owners? Not at all, I work for company that I don't think about that one bit. I still say they all want to make the most they can to to provide a better lifestyle for all involved, again can I fault them for that?


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

they ALL say they are not making money. just as the any company never makes money! when they do they dont save it,the ceo's take it home. they don't save it for lean periods. according to my company they never make money,especially when our contract is under negotiations. just sayin. it is like trying to believe a politician.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Last I checked businesses are in business to make money. It isn't to make friends.


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

Your life is what you make of it. You make your own choices. I made a choice to change careers and went back to school at 40 and now work in a much better industry and have more control over my direction. Let's face it, companies goes over seas because they are forced to because of the tax structure in the US. The highest tax rate in the world for businesses. 40% tax rate. So in order to stay competitive you have to produce more in volume while paying less per hour. It's a simple equation. So they move to Mexico becaue the corp. tax rate is a fraction of what the US is. Businesses are in the business of making money not friends. So while there is a very little part of me that feels for you, the majority says find out what you want to do and go for it. If that means going back to school and learning new skills then do it. It will suck for a while but in the long run you will be much better off, believe me. Gone are the days of working at one place and retiring there. You need to add skills all the time and move where the market is moving. So find out what you want to do and go after it.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Well said Streamhawk. It truely is all about the choices we make. The job won't change thats for sure.


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## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

Streamhawk said:


> Gone are the days of working at one place and retiring there. You need to add skills all the time and move where the market is moving. So find out what you want to do and go after it.


32 years and counting at the same manufacturing company. A desire to learn and ability to adapt to changes have kept me employed. I'm salary so no union issues to worry about and I work o.t. when its necessary. I pretty much enjoy about 90% of my job. I work directly with the hourly union guys as a parts buyer for our maintenance shops.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

I read this thread and then flashed back to all the times I have heard and read of employers complaining about not being able to find good workers. 
I reckon it is not hard to see why many are having this problem. 

More/different education is a great personal answer but Our Country needs to make things, needs labor and the folks that are needed to do this work need a decent wage and time to have a real life. 

Without these TWO things our Country as we know and love it is doomed.
I will not get too into politics but before you vote, carefully listen to what the political parties are promoting, and then remember this thread. 


PS: Credit makes you a slave, play that losing game only as much as you absolutely have too. Never finance toys or play, try like the devil to pay cash for needed vehicles, only buy a modest house unless it is for an investment.


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## triton189 (Nov 6, 2009)

Pooka said:


> I read this thread and then flashed back to all the times I have heard and read of employers complaining about not being able to find good workers.
> I reckon it is not hard to see why many are having this problem.
> 
> More/different education is a great personal answer but Our Country needs to make things, needs labor and the folks that are needed to do this work need a decent wage and time to have a real life.
> ...


I agree 100%... Recent improvement to the economy has been credited to strong economic activity in the manufacturing sector. Just think what the rebound could have been if we still had a strong mfg base. I hope people in Washington are starting to get it...? We can not continue with a service sector economy!


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## fishngolf (Jul 18, 2009)

Powerball is 170 million for this Wends.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

fishngolf said:


> Powerball is 170 million for this Wends.



Save your money, just before he exploded, the penguin on my TV set said this was my week to win!


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

IF you DO win, can I borrow a million for 1 yr?


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

Lowell H Turner said:


> IF you DO win, can I borrow a million for 1 yr?



Sure thing! 
What in the world would I do with all that cash anyway? I reckon 20 mil would set me and all my family up for life, the rest would just get in the way.


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## ilovetofish (Feb 5, 2010)

to the op--my company has an open position..... its not manufacturing and i cant guarantee anything but if youre interested, then pm me.....


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## firelands (Oct 5, 2006)

The sad part about this is manufacturing knows that if the pay is good there will be 100 aps for any job posting.

Don't like it, don't let the screen door hit you on the way out!!!!!!!!!

Because of a lot of things I can't do hard labor any more. (auto accident-not my fault three years ago) I've got three years of college ( won't go back at my age) don't do street drugs or anything more than two/three beers in a night (RARELY!)

At one time a couple years ago I had 200 aps/resumes out. Didn't get so much as a smell! (pre-accident)

They'll hire younger workers without as much skill, knowledge, or ability than I who'll work cheaper!


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## buckzye11 (Jul 16, 2009)

I've enjoyed reading this thread and all the points of view.... I was in manufacturing for 3 months of my life, and thats all it took for me to know i would never do it again. I quit that job and started mowing lawns, and general landscape with my buddy. I was clearing out some rich guys woods so he could have more lawn space.(got 4 dumptruck loads of firewood hauld out) So he walks out of his mansion and tells me he's looking for a new guy with a good work ethic at his warehouse... and i was that guy. I now ship Chinese auto tools all over the USA and world that were bought over the internet. I don't make a ton of money, but a fair salary, insurance, and a 401k that's matched by the boss man, and my back feels good again. All on 45 hours a week. I don't have kids, so that made my decision much easier. I guess all im saying is... if the boat is sinking, you got to jump off and swim. On a side note, my boss started his business at age 35 by investing in 10 auto scan tools... sold those, made a profit... bought more... and repeat. He is now a millionarie... selling Chinese crap pays good. Go sit down with the Wife and watch Forrest Gump


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

If you can make an honest living doing it, my hat`s off to you...


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## vc1111 (Apr 13, 2004)

I feel for anyone who is unhappy with thier work. I feel even more for anyone who is unhappy because they are out of work.

I think that in eastern Ohio we may see tremendous opportunity in the next 20 to 60 months as the shale projects begin to provide cash and jobs in those areas. 

If I were looking for better work, I'd probably consider starting now because the influx of cash in the areas where drilling is happening is most likely going to be significant. That cash will create a lot of spending, the spending will create opportunities and jobs. 

Let's hope that the wells that are drilled are highly productive. We may just be on the brink of a boom in our local economy such as we've not seen in 50 years.


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

idontknow316 said:


> My shop is Union and most people there wish we were not. Waste of money, where does my 53 dollars go? What a crock of ..... There are a few guys in the shop that are all for it. I say way back when unions were needed. Now? I'd rather speak for myself and keep my 53 dollars thank you.


 Just curious,,, OK. say you pocket the $53.00 and speak for yourself. What are you going to ask for and what will you settle for in wages and other benifits,,,,, and most important of all (for me and my former occupation) Safety ..


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Slatebar said:


> Just curious,,, OK. say you pocket the $53.00 and speak for yourself. What are you going to ask for and what will you settle for in wages and other benifits,,,,, and most important of all (for me and my former occupation) Safety ..


This reminds me of the mafia movies where the mafia offers stores protection if they pay. Protection from what? From the Mafia.  
[/COLOR] 
Seriously though, a union may offer some job security, but usually only for those that are at risk of being fired. When I was a union worker (5 years worth of it...), they drilled us, pretty much tried to brainwash us, that without that union, we'd make pennies per day IF we had a job, which we wouldn't if it weren't for them. I'd rather achieve and grow and get better raises based on my performance over the slacker next to me than get the same across-the-board-raise-because-we're-all-equal crap. It created an aire that producers were not rewarded, and therefore stopped producing more than the average, actually lowering the average driving up the cost-per-item. I was more afraid of going on strike at contract time back then than I am of losing my job now "for now reason." It's a tough economy out there, no doubt, but there are options for those willing to seize them.


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## Ry440 (May 11, 2011)

I work for Jim Slone, he is running for congress against Congressman Jim Jordan. He told me something the other day that really caught my attention, he said Ryan, The problem with "NAFTA" is that it stand for North American Free Trade Agreement, not FAIR Trade Agreement. This thread really caught my attention. It's stories like your guys' that should be on the news every night.


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## Wannabitawerm (Apr 13, 2004)

Make no mistake, remove the unions and wages WILL drop. Auto manufacturers would fire the current workforce and hire all new at half pay and benefits tomorrow if they could. You can disagree all you want but I've seen the company post their bigges profits years, but, they are still complaining to the workers about losing money, drowning in debt, and not giving anything more. They have to make money for shareholders and if they could cut a workers wage to do it, it would be the first thing on the list. See if you can find any info on the equity of sacrifice grievance being arbitrated right now in the courts. Gives a whole new definition to corporate greed. 


Ain't technology great? Now I can be distracted by fishing everywhere I go!


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

there are so many points i wanted to touch upon during the course of this thread but just didnt have the time to do so. 

going to end my comments on here by saying as long as i have been in "Manufacturing", except for the Union shop, i have rarely ever seen a person advanced, or let alone rewarded for hard work, attendance, quality, or having a good work ethic. not saying it doesnt happen, i just have yet to see it. it actually works the other way around! the screw-offs, bad producers are the ones they get out of the way and put in management or non production positions because they arent as valuable to the bottom line by consistantly producing quality and numbers of parts. at my pevious place of employment it was who done the most "snitching", could supply the most Drugs, "S####l Favors", or dirty deeds done outside of work who are now in "higher positions". 

been considering getting my CDL license (paying for schooling myself) and taking the hit for 6 months to a year of being gone for days on end getting some experience in trucking and then getting a local delivery route where i am home every night and have a couple days off. also going to some hiring agencies later today and see what is available in my current line of work but i imagine its going to be more of the same, low pay 12hr 6-7 day a week jobs.

those who are in lines of work where you still work 40hrs a week, able to pay your bills, and have time to enjoy life consider yourselves very lucky.


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## triton189 (Nov 6, 2009)

dinkbuster1 said:


> there are so many points i wanted to touch upon during the course of this thread but just didnt have the time to do so.
> 
> going to end my comments on here by saying as long as i have been in "Manufacturing", except for the Union shop, i have rarely ever seen a person advanced, or let alone rewarded for hard work, attendance, quality, or having a good work ethic. not saying it doesnt happen, i just have yet to see it. it actually works the other way around! the screw-offs, bad producers are the ones they get out of the way and put in management or non production positions because they arent as valuable to the bottom line by consistantly producing quality and numbers of parts. at my pevious place of employment it was who done the most "snitching", could supply the most Drugs, "S####l Favors", or dirty deeds done outside of work who are now in "higher positions".
> 
> ...


Dinkbuster, I believe you are in Dayton and I know it is a long drive for you but Honda is hiring at both the Anna Engine plant and the transmission plant on Indian Lake. Any assembly line work at Honda is very good and you are now treated better then the UAW... what I mean by that is the starting wages are better at Honda now that GM & Chrysler went through their bankrupcy,etc. Plus you may be able to move into the Indian Lake area and fish more with the decent hours...!


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

dinkbuster1 said:


> there are so many points i wanted to touch upon during the course of this thread but just didnt have the time to do so.
> 
> going to end my comments on here by saying as long as i have been in "Manufacturing", except for the Union shop, i have rarely ever seen a person advanced, or let alone rewarded for hard work, attendance, quality, or having a good work ethic. not saying it doesnt happen, i just have yet to see it. it actually works the other way around! the screw-offs, bad producers are the ones they get out of the way and put in management or non production positions because they arent as valuable to the bottom line by consistantly producing quality and numbers of parts. at my pevious place of employment it was who done the most "snitching", could supply the most Drugs, "S####l Favors", or dirty deeds done outside of work who are now in "higher positions".
> 
> ...


I think the screw ups get "promoted" because they're the most noticeable whereas the "good guys" are basically unnoticed because they're not causing drama of some sort. Whether it be bad parts, low production numbers, causing machine breakdowns, etc, etc, etc the screw ups get noticed for things not so good. Which is why I'll never understand why some of them get to advance. If it was my shop they'd all be unemployed.

Hey maybe the CDL route is the way to go, just hope you like driving. You might be able to go through a "big trucking company" to get a local route. If your serious call a couple of those types of companies.

You never know what the hiring agencies will have unless you check them out. Never hurts to explore all your options so go for it.

I do consider myself lucky when it comes to where I work. I fully understand that not all shops are like mine and that's what makes me appreciate being there even more. 

Chin up, remain positive and good things will come your way.


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## Catfish John (May 10, 2004)

Well ive read the entire post and Dink i can give you some insight about truck driving... ive had my cdl for 10 years... after going to school for automotive tech... working at a dealership and the reason i quit auto tech was at the dealers i always felt like they were pushing to sell ppl stuff they didnt need.. i dont believe in cheating people like that... so i had always wanted to drive a semi... so i went to US Xpress driving school when they had it in Medway. I lasted 10 months there... all the promises of miles and home time was a joke.. i would be due to come home they would send me the other direction then i would sit the whole weekend with no load coming home. you will pay your dues the hard way in trucking... and another thing... the pay is low specially starting out... and you wont get that elusive home daily job until you have 1-2 years exp. i now have a job im home daily. but its almost like i might as well be on the road... you work your 14 hrs come home sleep your 10hr off and back to work... hardly anytime for family or fun expect on weekends....just a heads up on being a big Muther Trucker.


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Ran 48 states & Canada for 7 years & still had to jump through some hoops to get a local "day job." The demand for jobs that allow you to have a real life when you're not actually working is pretty high & you'll be in line w/guys who have a LOT of experience. 

And the money, after gradually increasing, is no better now than when I started. Decent hourly wage is getting harder to find & on mileage pay, your loading/unloading/fueling/breakdown time, etc. is usually either unpaid or @ a reduced rate. Beware of the line "You'll make $20 an hour on our mileage pay."

On the upside, it is a useful skill & in the words of a friend & former employer, "It's ***hole work, but you can always find a job." Your contact w/the moron masses is fairly limited. You are sorta your own own boss when you're in the truck & if the real boss calls, you don't always have to answer.


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