# 2nd annual mid-winter online seminar



## Jim Stedke

I just got home from the Clevland Boat Show, and I really enjoyed getting to meet so many OGFers.

Also, I was thinking how nice it was to NOT have a hip replacment surgery coming on the heels of the show (as I have had the last 2 years). It brought to mind how much I enjoyed doing the on-line Erie walleye seminar last January, and if the wheels don't mind, I think it would be fun to do it again. 

I doubt it will be as involved as last year, but who knows. 

So... baring any objections, let's see what happens.

Like last year, anyone can ask a question and input and thoughts from anyone is welcome.

Anyone ???


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## tomb

There's always more to learn, that's one of the things that make fishing such a blast. I'd be glad to read more again.


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## Toxic

Like TomB stated, good idea, I always want to learn more. I (Bald guy w/goatee) was there for your seminar on Monday 14th at 2pm Very informative. I know when using dipsy's, snap weights, or jets, you would use the books to determine line depth. One thing I forgot to ask was, when setting your lines for planer boards while running sticks with no weights, what determines how much line do you want out behind the releases? Is it personal preference? Thanks in advance.


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## Jim Stedke

Most use the book for stickbaits as well. Ripsticks max out at 11' with 106' of line out. They go 4' with only 15' of line, 6'with 28', 8' with 47', & 10' with 80' of line. So even though the change in depth is not nearly as drastic as a deep diver, it is still an important aspect of your presentation. 

Even at night, when you are often in 12' of water or less, guys reporting a catch on the radio include the feet back as part of it. 

I hope this helps, and thanks for the kind words.


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## Gju42486

hey jim i was also there with toxic for your presentation and also stuck around a little after around your booth to BS a little, definitly learned alot just talking to you guys, and even picked up some quality snubbers to go into the arsenal next year......I was the short/old/fat/bald/ salty coast guard guy.  that should narrow it down


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## ezbite

hi jim, i wont knock anything over today, i promise 
would you explain lead core set-up and program, say for fishing reef runners 800 series and my target depth is 32 feet down. can it be ran off in-lines? how much do i need on a reel, does it need backing or a leader longer than the normal 5 footer?


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## ERIE REBEL

Hey Jim I'm surprised that at the end of last years on line deal you don't have carpal tunnel!!


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## jobu

Jim, it was nice meeting you at the show. In short time I spoke to you during the show, I learned something new: How to tune Jets. You explained that they could be tuned by replacing the large snaps with connecting links (the ones with the large ring on one end). The jets can then be tuned by bending the link, much like tuning cranks. Some of my jets have had a tendency to flip or roll on me while setting lines, so I will definitely use this tip. This may be old news to some, but it was new to me! Can't believe I never thought of it. Thanks! I'm looking forward to another long thread full of tips and useful info.

URL for the connecting links: http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/connecting-links/335505.aspx


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## Jim Stedke

EZ, What you need to do is called segmented leadcore...which is splicing in from 2 - 9 colors of leadcore. Using a mono leader and mono backing. 

To get to 32' with a Reef Runner on leadcore from the lure, 50' leader then 2 colors of leadcore (60') then 50' of backing in the water, then the board; or a 3 colors setup could be 50' mono leader, then 3 colors then the board. 

When attacting leadcore to a board it's best to attach the clip to the mono line. Clipping onto the leadcore can cause a stress point and in time break the lead filament inside the line.

Leadcore is very speed dependant so speed would need to be around 2 mph.

Hope this helps, and good fishing.


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## ezbite

ok, we talked about running wire line at the show, seems like too many variables to run to me. lead core looks pretty much a pain too. i think im just going to concentrate on snap weights. i ran them last year with some pretty good results. only ran 1 and 2 ounce. i have larger ones and would like to learn to run them to depths of up to 60 and 70 fow off ashtabula this year, you know pull "ole clayface" up off the bottom.:B .

lets talk about the "20 plus" method. you know put a snap weight (1oz) 20 feet in front of the lure and it will run 33&#37; deeper than its dive curve. this method seems to work fine for me running only 1oz. when i multiply this by 3 and add a 3oz snap weight. it just doesnt seem to jive when you want to go deeper. here's what i mean, when im running a rapala tail dancer (td-11) with 200 feet of line (fol) out, the td-11 will pull down to about 30 feet without weight, this makes sense and i have caught fish there. i add a 1oz and it drops down to 40 (33% of 30 is 9.9, 9.9 added to 30=40) now, do i multiply that 9.9 for each ounce of weight? for instance if i add 3 ounces, it should take me down to around 60 fow, but it just doesnt seem like it and if i add 4 ounces it should go down to 70 fow, right? how do you know to run heavier weights and not just let out more line (think i know why less line out is better) why does it need to be 20 feet in front of the bait and not 30 or even 50? seems to me the more line between the bait and the weight, the better action or is there a " maxium action" td-11 or any bait has for that matter? i hope your not as confused reading this as i was writing it. i think i got the question out there. but just to be clear, what is your method for running larger snap weights? 3 to 4 ouncers. lets not worry about speed for now, but i do realize speed has something to do with it also, im just trying to keep it simple thanks.


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## Bob Why

Jim, Thanks for doing this again. Was a lot of very good information passed on last year. And we all have room to learn even if it's just a reminder. And one little bite of information can sometimes turn a bad day into a not so bad day. EZ to try to answer your question, the addition of more weight doesn't add 33% for each oz of weight. A 4 oz weight will go 28 ft at 2 mph, with 200 fol out. A 6oz will drop to 38ft with 200 fol out. And an 8oz 42 ft with the same. This is using 30 lb mono according to Precision Trolling. Again according to PT, using 10 lb line the with a 50 ft leader the bait will run approximately 2 ft deeper than the weight, That is spinners and stickbaits. It doesn't give a result for deep divers so hopefully Jim can fill this in.


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## Jim Stedke

I fish faster than most. Pulling cranks in the summer my speed is likely around 2.5 mph. At that higher speed you'll gain 4-5' per ounce with 10# mono. If you're trolling slower than that you'll gain more depth. How much more depends on speed, so it's impossible to leave speed out of the answer. It's simply too important to leave out.
The distance ahead thing is to me a matter of personal preferrence. I have run snap wts. as close as 6' ahead of the lure with no negative impact on the action of the lure. If a big Dipsy or Jet doesn't spook the fish why would anyone think a little snap wt would? Running the wt closer causes the lure to be effected sooner and more drastically by the wt. In other words the closer the wt is more effect it will have on the lure, most obvious of these effects being verticle swim. 

Remember the data in the book was taken under flat calm conditions, with no impact from wind, current or waves. We don't get to fish in those conditions very often, so I use the book more as a estimater and I don't think of it as being absolute or exact. 

When you start trying to get down to 70' depths and you're putting 200' of line in the water the variables get so extreme that I don't think anyone can give you a simple answer.

I know I didn't answer your question, but it may be one of those questions that can only be answered with "that depends". 

Oh and by the way with a 4oz snap wt, any slack to the board will result in the (Offshore board) sinking. So dive straight and keep pressure on the board in turns.

I hope I haven't totally confussed you. Thanks for the question.


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, If I run 50' of 10# mono as a leadcore leader or ahead of the snap wt, I give the deep diving lure it's 50' depth and consider the wt adding to the established depth.

Thanks for the input.


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## ezmarc

EZ, I find it interesting that you think lead and wire are too confusing but want to use snap weights. Snap weights in my opinion are way more complicated. They react faster than lead and wire do when you have speed changes, interfere with setting outside lines more easily and are harder to tell where you're at depthwise. 

Jim is really good with this written word stuff so maybe he can pull it off but I wouldn't even attempt to write down all the variables that go with snap weight trolling. I'll be watching this one closely because maybe I'm just making it hard on myself.


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## ezmarc

Dagnabit! I see ETT and I were typing and sipping coffee at the same time.


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## ezbite

ezmarc said:


> EZ, I find it interesting that you think lead and wire are too confusing but want to use snap weights.


it's not that i find them confusing, it just seem that too many things could go wrong, my problem with wire is "the kink factor" you know if you let it out too fast or free spool it might kink or tangle. i fished on board a charter several years ago and we re-spooled 2 different reels while out on the water that were wire because of kinks. im not really into re-spooling while im fishing plus if i remember right we had like 375' out, too much cranking for me and lead core? why have more knots in the line? i know your going to say, what about dipseys and the 3 knots there, those knots dont have to pass thru the guides on the poles so i can tie big ole palomar knots there. i guess im saying i dont have the skills to tie splices that are needed with lead core with snap weights i have to tie one knot, my big ole palomar


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## ezmarc

Yep i hear you about the long lines out. There are times when I see over 500 feet when I'm using lead and a 9 pound fish takes a lot of effort to get in like that. 

Snap weights will shorten those leads considerably but they present other issues. There are times though in that ultra clear water you have over your way that extreme long leads are necessary though. I'm not a fan of wire either but it's in my arsenal for those times when the fish prefer it.

I'll probably be at a outdoor show in your neck of the woods in March but it's not firm yet. It would be a good place for knot tying and weighted presentation discussions if you can make it.


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## Jim Stedke

ezbite, If you don't like special knots stay away from segmented leadcore,... it's a series of knots that must pass through the guides. And you only gain around 5' for every color of lead. Wire adds about 1' of depth for every 10' of wire in the water. So both end up being long leads. 

I guess the simple answer for extreme depths is down riggers.


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## BFG

All good points. Throw me in the group that dislikes Snap weights and their inevitably uncontrollable variables..

Segmented leadcore is the way to go...just don't troll in a straight line all the time... There are several ways to connect core to mono...all of which are relatively simple. 

A question for Jim...

Have you tried running any copper?? Many of my salmon fishing buds are running it with great success on Lake Michigan and Lake Ontario. 150' of 45# copper = 10 colors of lead. I would think the Central and Eastern basin guys would be jumping at that setup...


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## Bluefinn

Glad to see this back again. I learned alot last year & had some great trips off cleveland. What size/weight do you think those 03 hatch walleyes will be this summer ?


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## Jim Stedke

BFG, No I haven't tried copper. 10 colors to me = 50'. If you can get 50' with 150 of 45# copper it is indeed something for the eastern basin guys to consider. (and for that matter the central basin guys as well)


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## Jim Stedke

03 hatch fish will be in the 17 to 23" size range per Travis Hartman and the growth strudies of the ODNR. Weight will vary with a majority of the fish being around 2 - 3#s. The fish further east will be heavier than those in the islands, by around 1/2 - 3/4ers of a pound.

I remember a tournament years ago with a 17" minimum size, and there were a few fish entered over 17"s that weighed under 1 pound, but they were very skinny fish. With the abundance of bait in the lake right now I don't see that as being likely.


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## eyesman_01

Welcome back Jim, and glad to see you start another post. I learned so much from last year's post, along with fishing with some of our top notch members, and did better on Erie than I've ever done. Thank you very much. Hoping to do as well, if not better, this year.

Can't think of any questions at the moment, but now that I know this is here I'll be visiting often.

Thanks again.


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## Jim Stedke

eyesman1, I'm glad to hear you had a good year. Helping folks have more fun on the water is what I'm all about. Thanks for the kind words and good luck in the upcoming year.


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## ezbite

ezmarc said:


> I'll probably be at a outdoor show in your neck of the woods in March but it's not firm yet. It would be a good place for knot tying and weighted presentation discussions if you can make it.


let me know if and when, thanks


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## BFG

Thanks Jim. Copper can be tempermental...but it works wonderfully. 

Another question...

With all of the 2003 class of fish now ranging 17-23" and @ 2-4# or so, is there any reason to think that the DOW will change the limit per day? The reason I ask is I've been wondering how the recent hatches (and future hatches) will fare in a pond that has so many hungry mouths (and growing I might add) to feed. 

In a nutshell...protecting the future classes by taking more of the 2003 class out...

You are correct though...I witnessed more bait in the water and on the graph in 2007 than I can ever remember. 

A follow up...

Do you think L. Erie will ever need a slot limit??? I think the 15" limit has done a wonderful job of protecting the young fish...but what about the "prime spawners?"....


Thanks!


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## Jim Stedke

BFG, The 07 year class was near the average for the last 15 years. And it really does not take a large number of spawning fish to produce a large year class. There are always enough eggs hatched to produce a large year class, but there are many biological events that must occur at just the right time to produce the propper food for the tiny walleyes. Everything from Spring floods, to high winds, to unseasonal cold snaps or warm spells has an effect. If the young of the year survive to October they stand a good chance continuing to adulthood. 

To answer your questions, Great Lakes Fisheries Commission has no plans to change Ohio's quota (which would have to happen before the ODNR could increase limits).

Protecting prime spawners, in a healthy and well deversified population is unneccessary, because every small walleye has the potential to grow into a prime spawner.

I believe the 4 to 6 # females are the ones who not only do the lions share of the work, but also have the potential to continue for the next several years. Given a choice to release a 9#er female & a 4# female, I'll release the smaller one because the larger one has already made her contributions.

I know I'll get heat for this, ..but ... Oh well, I can defend that statement.

Thanks for the post and good luck out there come Spring.


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## reo

Just to confirm what Mr. Stedke is saying, remember that the population in 2003 was very low adding proof that other factors are MUCH more important than large populations when it come to spawning success.


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## ezbite

now that were on walleye size, do you think that the removal of all those big, fat night eyes off cleveland, huron, vermilion and the rest of the lake will have an impact on the population down the road? the reason i ask, this year we really pulled a lot of big girls that were already full of eggs. small eggs, but eggs none the less. i know the internet has made the night bite a very popular attraction for trophy hunters and i dont see that doing anything but increasing in popularity. having said that and knowing that theres an on going debate over big walleye tasting the same as smaller ones, i plan on releasing my big girls from now on (as long as i already have fish in the freezer). there is a difference in the taste and texture of a tough, old 9 pounder as compaired to a sweet, tender 3 pounder at least to my palate and yes i bleed them all. what do you think?

while im on releasing fish, do you know of a spray, cream, mojo, or anything to keep those pesky, tackel trashing steelhead of my line??


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## K gonefishin

An ODNR guy once told me many moons ago...."you cannot hurt the walleye population with a rod and reel" 

I believe him to the fullest extent.


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## ezmarc

The ODNR guy was wrong. That's why they put limits on them. 

When the population is down and fishing is tough sportsmen rarely get their quota. When the fishing is easy and popular it is very common to go over quota and happened several times with the eyes in the 80's and the perch in the 90's.


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## Jim Stedke

The number of oversized fish caught by the night gang, is far fewer than those caught by the hundreds of boats that fish off Huron, Vermilion & and Lorain during the daytime in the Fall. That fishery was way way down because of all the windy weather this fall. I'm sure there were fewer large females caught this fall then in the last 4 or 5 years.

And I don't know of a steelhead deterrent.


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## Fish-Crazy

Hi Jim:

It was a pleasure to meet you and your brother last week at the show, and had a great time chatting with you. Good job on all the information youre passing out, its very informative!

Dont be Afraid of the Dark!


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## jobu

Travis Hartman from the Ohio DNR mentioned, in a seminar at the boat show, that the success of the hatch is due almost entirely to the weather. He mentioned that the huge 2003 class was hatched at a time when the spawning population was near it lowest point in a twenty year time span. 
Rest easy Ezbite. You're not hurting the hatch. It's the poachers that I worry about. Those who take more than their share are far more likely to hurt the population.

-Brian



ezbite said:


> now that were on walleye size, do you think that the removal of all those big, fat night eyes off cleveland, huron, vermilion and the rest of the lake will have an impact on the population down the road? the reason i ask, this year we really pulled a lot of big girls that were already full of eggs. small eggs, but eggs none the less. i know the internet has made the night bite a very popular attraction for trophy hunters and i dont see that doing anything but increasing in popularity. having said that and knowing that theres an on going debate over big walleye tasting the same as smaller ones, i plan on releasing my big girls from now on (as long as i already have fish in the freezer). there is a difference in the taste and texture of a tough, old 9 pounder as compaired to a sweet, tender 3 pounder at least to my palate and yes i bleed them all. what do you think?
> 
> while im on releasing fish, do you know of a spray, cream, mojo, or anything to keep those pesky, tackel trashing steelhead of my line??


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## RBud1080

Hey Jim, really appreciate what you're doing here. I primarily fish out of the Rocky River, it seemed end May through June, 95% of the fish I caught were 03' class fish. Do you think its where I was fishing, or how I was fishing? I primarily ran a spoon and stickbait program. I know this is a very broad question, but you have any ideas on how I could find some bigger fish? This was pretty much the case for me in July as well.


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## Toolman

Hi Jim,

Missed you at the show last Saturday. Got to talk with Mark briefly, but you were away from the booth. Anywhoo-keeping this thread to fishing technique. If you are fishing 2 or 3 people in a boat what is your favorite way to present spinners-dipsey, snap weight, keel weight, or other (and why)? 

Tim


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## Jim Stedke

RBud, There were alot of us catching mainly 03 fish. This year they'll be big enough to take the full size deep cranks, and at around 20"es they aren't little anymore. My advise would be, if you get a larger fish, work that area hoping that there's a school of bigger fish there. Walleyes will school by size especially in the summer.

If you have a color fish finder use it to locate the larger fish, and work big fish programs, like Dipsys with stickbaits, and larger blades on your harnesses.

Next year should be very good, have fun trying to catch larger fish but realize that their numbers are down, and don't let it upset you. 

Thanks for the question and good luck.


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## Jim Stedke

Hey Tim, 6 or 8 lines and harnesses. Well for ease of adjustment and speed to reset you surly can't beat Dipsys, so they'd be invoved. But if you like boards, inlines or big boards, jets work great in conjunction with the Dipsys off of either size boards.

I know you know this Tim, but for those who aren't as experienced, always run at least 2 Dipsy and/or 2 boards together on a side. It gives you the advantage of reading one rod off the other, and reduces the liklyhood of dragging a fish. 

To say this another way, if you're going to run 2 Dipsys and 2 boards (total of 4 rods) run the 2 Dipsys on the same side and the 2 boards on the other side.

Sorry I missed you Tim, thanks for the question, and good luck.


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## Chippewa

Jim Stedke said:


> RBud, There were alot of us catching mainly 03 fish. This year they'll be big enough to take the full size deep cranks, and at around 20"es they aren't little anymore. My advise would be, if you get a larger fish, work that area hoping that there's a school of bigger fish there. Walleyes will school by size especially in the summer.
> 
> If you have a color fish finder use it to locate the larger fish, and work big fish programs, like Dipsys with stickbaits, and larger blades on your harnesses.
> 
> Next year should be very good, have fun trying to catch larger fish but realize that their numbers are down, and don't let it upset you.
> 
> Thanks for the question and good luck.


Jim... When you are talking larger blades on a spinner harness for the big eyes.. what size/kind are you talking? indiana,colorado ? or all depending on the situation? I had one spinner rigged up with what I thought was way to big and it caught a bunch of fish until it got into a nasty twist and snag and gone....and that was the only one I had... It was around 3" long indiana blade.. what size would that be? need to order and tie more


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## Jim Stedke

Chippewa, A 3" Indiana blade is huge. Larger than an size 8. It must have been some specialty blade, I don't know that I've ever seen one that large. 

Single large blade harnesses can be productive, but they will twist up much easier than smaller blades, with just alittle too much speed. 

As I said easlier, I fish faster than most, and because of that bigger blade for me means a larger single willow leaf blade like a 5 or a 6. They don't have near the thump of an Indiana or Colorado but you don't have to be under 1 mph to run them either.

I don't doubt or question what you're saying. Not in the slightest. It's just one more example how different guys can produce fish using different techniques.


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## goolies

Jim

I fish out of Fairport Harbor and late last summer I was fishing in 70+ feet of water. I have read that Reef Runner deep divers are probably the most productive stickbait for Lake Erie walleyes. I have also read that guys trying to get them down deeper add snap weights. I know that you can not really run them behind dipseys because of their pull. What do you think about pulling Reef Runner Ripsticks behind dipseys? They have a similar action in the water with less pull. How much do you think that they would effect the diving depth of the dipsey? Thanks.

Andy


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## Jim Stedke

Andy, Several of our biggest fish have come off of full size Ripsticks behind Dipsys. It is a big fish program, and an effective one.

The pull or drag on a Dipsy is a subtle but important aspect of running multiple Dipsys. The order of least drag to most drag is small spoons, larger spoons, harnesses, then stickbaits. Type of spoon, size of the blades on the harness, and size of the stickbait need to be considered as well.

Because of the added drag, we run the stickbaits only on the deeper Dipsys (up to 2 setting). If I'm taking off a spoon and replacing it with a stickbait I'll add some distance to my drop length to get back to my original depth. How much varies but at extreme depths it could be as much as 25' or more. This is one of the finer points on Dipsy fishing, but one that bares consideration.

Thanks for the question, and good luck next year.


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## ezbite

jim, do you think color of a dipsy has an effect on the bite? do walleye shy away from bright ones? i have all mine painted black or run clear ones. last year i ran a chrome one and to my suprise it caught fish (mostly steelhead), until someone forgot to back off on the drag and a steelhead took it home.i watched that sucker jump 3 times with it, just to rub it in . i have some i painted metallic copper this winter and im going to try this year(copper was my best finish on spoons last year). what do you think?


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## chaunc

Jim, i have a bad shoulder. Last season was murder cranking 240 to 320 ft to get the eyes in. I have a set of manual downriggers. Could i use them to fish like we did with jets but not so far behind the boat or will the ball scare the fish away. We were only fishing i believe 30 ft deep with the jets.


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## goolies

Jim,

I'm making up some trolling harnesses and I'm painting the blades myself. What are your favorite colors and/or patterns? I have been paying attention to the amount of unpainted metal I leave exposed on the blades. Do you think the amount of flash is as important or more important than color? Also, I have been making the harnesses with leftover 30# braid. Is braid ok or should I use mono? Thanks.

Andy


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## Jim Stedke

EZ, In my seminars I answer the color questions with black or clear for Dipsys or Jets. I'll go further by saying in deep water, I don't think color is crutial, but in clear water conditions when the fish want to be up high I stay away from the metalic colors. Theres too much flat surface on Dipsys & Jets & the flash can spook walleyes. Steelhead are fearless, so the flash probably attracts them. (but really I like the orange Dipsys for steelhead)

Coppers and golds have been good for all us us the last few years. I'll be interested to see how they work out.

Thanks for the question and let me know how they work.


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## Jim Stedke

chaunc, Riggers can spool walleyes, but I don't think a rigger 20' or more above the fish would bother them. You might even try Dipsy set at 2 or less behind the riggers to fish below them, and cut down on the total amount of line out.

Thanks for the question & good luck.


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## Jim Stedke

Andy, I make mine on 25# flourocarbon, but I know others that use braid with success. So I guess it's personal preference. I would however keep an eye on them incase they show wear under the clevises.

So far as flash goes I like the diamond cut blades because of all the angles they have to reflect light. I colorize them with paint markers or just magicmarkers, and that leaves alot of the spinner raw. Bead colors are important too. Many of my bead combinations are to simulate the rainbow smelt colors, because I think that's wht our harness mimic.

Hope this helps and thanks for the question.


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## BFG

Good stuff Jim...

I too fall into the category of desiring less paint on blades than most. This is also true with salmonoid spoons, as recently many of my friends have switched back to more "hammered" patterns with less and less paint. 

It would be interesting if a manufacturer would put out a line of "hammered finish" cranks...

Another question, if you don't mind...

I read where you tout the use of larger cranks behind divers for larger fish...and to be quite honest, I agree 100%. Do you feel the same way in regards to trolling spoons?? We routinely catch plenty of fish ('03's and larger) on the standard sized salmon spoons, but I don't see that tactic getting much press....

Thanks!


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## Jim Stedke

BFG, " Hammered finish on cranks" well the Renowski lures have what might be considered a hammered texture on their cranks, and the guys who use them are quite pleased with them. 

We only use larger spoons when we are desperate to reduce the number of smaller trash fish. But I don't doubt that they would be effective. During the '94 PWT at S Bass (that's the tournament that every single team limited and the overall average wt per fish was 7-1/4#s) , my 2nd day am was a salmon guy who had some larger lures. At 9:30 we our smallest fish was over 7 and he asked if I minded if he ran some oversize lures (26 Bombers & the like). I thought it was a good idea, but after 1-1/2 hrs and several 4 - 6 # fish, he gave up on them and went back to Reef Runners. 

The big lure / big fish rule is one of the many rules that only applies when it's working. Come to think of it I guess all fishing rules are subject to change without notice. LOL

Thanks for the post and good luck next year.


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## Hetfieldinn

goolies said:


> I'm making up some trolling harnesses and I'm painting the blades myself. What are your favorite colors and/or patterns? I have been paying attention to the amount of unpainted metal I leave exposed on the blades. Do you think the amount of flash is as important or more important than color? Also, I have been making the harnesses with leftover 30# braid. Is braid ok or should I use mono? Thanks.


I'll try and help with this one. The attached picture has my two top producing harnesses for last year. A lot of others caught fish, but day in and day out, these two were killer. The top one is Shrimp with metallic maroon beads, and the bottom one is Mi-Hi, with a mix of copper and maroon beads. I tie mine with 20# Seagaur florocarbon, with a #4 treble on the rear, and a #2 Octopus hook in the front.


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## Gju42486

looks good het, who painted the blades for ya?


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## Hetfieldinn

Those are Silver Streak blades.


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## snake69

In this post, you mention running your 2 dipseys on one side and 2 inlines on the other side....? I'm very new at this, but we ran 1 in line on each side and two dipseys straight back. Didn't seem to be a problem. It just seems like the way we did it was the right way? In another post, you mention the #2 setting for dipseys. Isn't that when you want them to run to one side or another? I'm still in the "experimental stage" with dipseys and inlines, I guess you could say. Like the content of this thread. Am watching very closely and trying to learn and suck it all in Thanks..............................


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## Gju42486

snake, ill chime in a little since jim isnt here to reply now. The # settings on the bottom of the dipsy are indeed to swing them out farther to the side. For example, a 0 would run straight back, a 1 would be just outside that, 2 in the middle and 3 on the outside ect. When i run my dipsy setup with no planer boards, i run 3 on each side, my inside dipsy ( goes in the rod holder closest to the stern) is #1, my middle dipsy is 2, and my outside one is a 3 ( goes in the rod holder farthest forward. When im running both dipsies and big boards, i switch to 2 dipsies per side and run 2 board rods as well. When i do this, i eliminate the #3 setting (so it doesnt get tangled with the boards, and just run the 1 and 2. So that gives me 2 dipsies per side 2 board rods per side and also 2 riggers off the back, which is more than enough to deal with. Also, i run one side with the rings ( the deep side) and one side without untill i see whats going to be hott for the day.....also, keep in mind, the higher the setting number on your dipsy, the more line your going to have to let out to achieve the depth. Did this help at all?


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## Hetfieldinn

snake69 said:


> In this post, you mention running your 2 dipseys on one side and 2 inlines on the other side....? I'm very new at this, but we ran 1 in line on each side and two dipseys straight back. Didn't seem to be a problem. It just seems like the way we did it was the right way?


There really is no right or wrong way. I think what Jim was getting at is to run two 'like' presentations on the same side of the boat, be it Dipsys, jets, or boards, because the rods with the same presentations will be reacting the same way, ie: the bend in the rod. It will be more obvious when a rod is hit by a smaller non targeted species, or hopefully a larger targeted fish, because you will have a rod next to it to compare it to, as opposed to the rod with the same presentation being on the other side of the boat.

That's how I took his explanation, anyway.


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## snake69

Het, when I posted that I wanted to say the same thing, that there is no wrong way, but in a sense, there is a wrong way to do almost anything, but that is another story. That being said and out of the way, I really like your harnesses. Interested in selling any? I'm guessing it wouldn't be worth the time and effort for the money you'd get. I'd love to learn to tie my own. Maybe a class in the future? That's something I want to do more of, trolling with harnesses. When is the best time of year for this...spring,summer..fall? All of the above?

George, yes it does make sense to a certain degree. I guess when I do more trolling with dipseys and/or inlines, I'll experiment with different methods and see what I prefer, what works best....etc. By the way, tried jets and am not very fond of it, although I'm sure they have their time and place also. I don't see them mentioned near as often here.

One more thing here, I know it's a bit off the subject, but related to it also but while I have everyones attention. I'd like to buy a setup to mount on the stern platform for either 4 or 6 rods, like a cisco system perhaps. I have a very limited area for this so that's factor. My main concern is a quality setup that will last and not fail. Collapsible would be a plus, as would swivel and assorted angles. Any suggestions as to brands, links and such?
Ans lastly, thanks for the help. Somewhat new to all this and need the help, but I always turn here for it....


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## Hetfieldinn

Harnesses can be productive all season long. The number of the blades, size, and shape changes with the water temps (inmy experience, anyway). In the spring, single colorado blades seem to do best for me. In late June, I switch to the double willow leafed harnesses, like the ones pictured. As the water temps cool with fall, I switch back to the single colorados.

Tying your own during the off season helps cabin fever. It also helps with the bragging rights that you caught a limit of fish on something you made.


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, By "stern platform" do you mean the swim platform. I think I need more info. No need to go into a lengthy discussion when I'm guessing at your question.

Most of us run our rod holders on the sides of the boat and leave the rear open for netting fish. Not to say it must be done that way, but it's kinda standard.

I'll be happy to assist, when I'm clear on your question. Sorry for not quite understanding.

I can sometimes forget that some less experienced guys are reading this, so anytime you're not clear on what I mean, just ask. We all were beginners at some point.


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## snake69

No, I am referring to the raised deck at the back of the boat. I have small storage units there and the bimini top lays down in that area, and it leaves a small area for setup. I do have two rod holders, one on each side on top of the gunwales near the back, and then I have 2 mounted on the inner side of the gunwale (1 each side)that I use straight back. The setup I have in mind would put them near where they are now.


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
Is there a certain time that you use dipsys when you troll? I mean can you start right out in early spring and catch fish with them or do you wait later in the year to put them out?
Really appreciated the info i read from everyone last year and this year is no different 
Thanks,
Ron


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## coolerzfull

het, how long are those? sure look sweet. whats the best way to run harnesses? Dipsy, jets, in-line boards? what length leader also? hope that wasn't asked/answered. i'm trying to keep up lol


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## eyesman_01

I'll vouch for Het's harnesses. His "Shrimp" caught the monster you see in my signature. Thanks again Het.


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## Jim Stedke

Ron, We run Dipsys from late May through Sept. But our early fishing is in the islands. I seldom fish east of Kelley's until mid June. 

This site has alot of Cleveland & east fishermen who may want to add their input.

Thanks for the question & good luck.


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## COmmodore 64

If you guys like Het's harnesses, but don't have the time or inclination to make them yourself, you can buy harnesses that are very similar and use the same Silver Streak blades at Erie Outfitters in Avon.


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## Hetfieldinn

coolerzfull said:


> het, how long are those? sure look sweet. whats the best way to run harnesses? Dipsy, jets, in-line boards? what length leader also?


I tie mine so that they are approximately a foot long.You can run them whichever way that gets them in front of the fish. Dipsys and Jets both work great, or even with a trolling/keel type weight in front of them flatlined or pulled behind a board. I had good luck last year running them behind BPS's painted keel style weights after a tip from Blue Dolphin (Gary Zart). I use my standard 6-8' leaders in front of all three.


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## Jim Stedke

COmmodore, Good point. As blades become more popular the market for the upscale blades will increase as will thier manufacture and availability. I have nothing against the fancy & extra pretty blades, but I serious doubt that they will catch significantly more walleyes their thier more plain couterparts.

As always it's an issue of getting whatever you're running to the right depth for me. And there being able to stay in touch with the movements of the fish through the day.

But as Scott Stecher says "fish don't have money", so the manufactures must "catch" a fisherman before the lure can catch a fish.


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## reo

snake69 said:


> No, I am referring to the raised deck at the back of the boat. I have small storage units there and the bimini top lays down in that area, and it leaves a small area for setup. I do have two rod holders, one on each side on top of the gunwales near the back, and then I have 2 mounted on the inner side of the gunwale (1 each side)that I use straight back. The setup I have in mind would put them near where they are now.


Before you put a setup across or on the the stern get some more input here. It can be done and it will catch fish but most all that have been at it a while will tell you that the rod holders should be along the gunnels so the back of the boat is open for fighting fish, netting fish and setting lines.


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, I think we need to see your boat or have a better discription of the aft deck before we can be of much help. 

Some boats around the 24' length that have quite small areas to fish from, and they require special considerations, when trying to figure out rod holder placement.

I'm not trying to be evasive, but I'm thinking yours may be a special set up.


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## ezbite

Buckeye Ron said:


> Jim,
> Is there a certain time that you use dipsys when you troll? I mean can you start right out in early spring and catch fish with them or do you wait later in the year to put them out?
> Really appreciated the info i read from everyone last year and this year is no different
> Thanks,
> Ron


i run dipsys from the first trip in the spring to the last trip in the fall. i dont run dipsys and in lines at the same time. we just stick with whats working and run all the same.


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## Hetfieldinn

I broke out the Dipsys for the first time last year on May 8th. We were fishing the bowl east of Niagara Reef. We tried jigging and bottom bouncing. Fishing was slow, and radio chatter said the same. I deceided I couldn't do any worse, and threw out the Dipsys and spoons, and couldn't keep the lines in the water. My log says that big Dipsys (no ring, of course), zero setting, 30 back with confusion was the ticket.


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## Gju42486

i guess im with tom on this--sort of. Early on, most fish are shallow and up high stacked in the top 30ft of the water column, me and my 5 inch deep renosky's and deep tail dancer 11's reak havoc on them then off the boards. Once they get to like 40-55ft or so, i bust the dipsies out. Thats not saying you can run the size 0's early on with success,.


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## Dixie Chicken

Het I fished with Big Johnson last year at your TC Shinding and we pulled Dipsy's and caught a good amount of eyes then. It was weird Sticks on one side of the boat and Dipsey/Sponns on the other. Speed was slower than normal.
DC


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> Many of my bead combinations are to simulate the rainbow smelt colors, because I think that's wht our harness mimic


jim, im not trying to get any of your secret bead patterns here (or am I?) but, could you give an example of a rainbow smelt bead set-up? thanks.


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## Jim Stedke

EZ, white, light blue, pink beads. Blades are 3-1/2 in front & 4 at rear,copper diamond cut Colorados. Purple & green paint stick of magicmarker stripes on the blade on one line of diamonds. Very simular to Het's. about 11" long tied on 25# flourocarbon w/#4 treble rear hook & 1 #2 Octopus about 3-3/4" ahead. Strckly an open water harness.


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## Rednek

Jim Stedke said:


> Strickly an open water harness.


Jim, Can you please explain what you mean by "open water" harness? Het used the same terminology today as well.


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## Jim Stedke

It's a harness that's designed to be fished in open water for suspended fish. Large treble rear hooks that would snap like crazy if you tried to use them close to the bottom (as you would with a bottom bouncer & a harness).


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## Guest

Jim I fish with jets, and cranks mostly in the Vermilion area. I going to try to run dipsys more this year. The question is I run 30 lbs power pro line should I stay with that line or change to heavyer line?


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## Gju42486

tubuzz2 said:


> Jim I fish with jets, and cranks mostly in the Vermilion area. I going to try to run dipsys more this year. The question is I run 30 lbs power pro line should I stay with that line or change to heavyer line?



Imo theres no need to change, i think most of us are using the 30lb powerpro


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## rippin lip

thank you jim for another good thread! - i have 6 daiwa lc47 and 8 foot med action trolling rods spooled with 30 lb power pro, which i use for everthing. i always run snubbers with all size dipsies and also run snubbers with my jets. people always tell me i dont need snubbers on jets but i catch alot of fish with this setup and i think it helps because of the no stretch line. i also run snubbers with harnesses and inline weights.
the last two years ive been running alot of deep cranks off inlines using snap weights and have been pretty successful but i do lose some hogs at times - especially on those long lines. i was just thinking the other day that maybe i should also try a snubber with the cranks??, since im using the power pro for everything , what are your thoughts on this? now im thinking it will probably affect the action of the crank? maybe a stupid question? wait, theres no such thing as a stupid question.


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## Jim Stedke

tubuzz22, 30# Power Pro is the line that I have on my Dipsy rods. I see no reason to go heavier.

Thanks for the question & good luck


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## Jim Stedke

rippin lips, Without soft rods to provide a cushion to the fish, I think snubbers ahead of the cranks with a 6' leader between them is a good idea. And I don't think it will have a big impact on lure action. Especially if the snap is a reasonable size (like 5/8ths").

Thanks for the question and I hope this helps. Good luck next year.


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## tomb

BFG: Early in the thread you mention not to drive in a straight line trolling with leadcore, why not?

Anyone: I've read often about having different rods spooled up with different amounts of leadcore. Why can't the rod just be spooled with 10 colors and just let out the desired amount, instead of all of it?


I just read a cool tip on another site. If the dipsey keeps making line tick off the reel more than desired. Instead of tightening the drag, tie a rubber band to the line and loop the other end to the handle of the reel. When a fish hits, the line will break.


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## Jim Stedke

tomb, having reels with 3 or any # of colors of leadcore line spliced into mono is called segmented leadcore. The reason for doing it is to allow the use of planer boards. Leadcore line from the rod tip to the board wants to sag & drag in the water. Also attaching clips to the leadcore will eventually cause the leadcore to break at one of those attachment points.

If you were going to run flat lines straight out the back of the boat, then full cores would be fine.

I'll take a stab at the "not driving straight" issue also. Leadcore is very speed sensative. So when you make "s" turns you're causing the leadcore and the lures to change depths. This effect is magnified by using boards, and these changes in speed and depth are big triggers for following walleyes. 

I would add that this zigzag driving pattern should not be a turn every 10 or 15 seconds. It should be more deliberate like a turn every 3 - 5 minutes, or even slower. 

If this is off base I'm sure BFG will straigthen us out.


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## Draggin' Fish

Jim, have you(or anyone else) experimented with "glow" spoons for walleye. I recently picked up several from Gander Mountain(.95 each). I have read that they are good for salmon/steelhead, but have not tried them for walleye.


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## traveye72

I trolled quite a bit last year. Setup wise I have the *basics* covered I think, but my real concern is where to troll? I follow fishing reports and I see the loads of boats huddled together (which I try to avoid) but I am trying to get better at understanding walleye and relation to structure etc... I fish the islands. Do you experienced guys out there try to relate too structure or just watch the fishfinder for markings of fish. Last year I got a GPS/fishfinder and really I am trying to utilize its full potential.
:T :T


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## Jim Stedke

Draggin Fish, I've had great success on spoons with some glow on them, a few times. But I not experienced tham to be super productive in a day in day out situation. Most glow lures and spoons have more glow on them then I'd like to see. One of my best colors is a custom color that has glow on the checks, and about 1/2" of glow on the tail. It did well in dingy water in the fall. 

Thanks for the question and good luck.


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## Jim Stedke

traveye72, The seaonal movements away from the reefs after the spawn, combined with the wind created currents and the eddys caused by structure are the primary forces that concentrates the bait and cause the walleyes to be one place rather than another. 

Watching the fishfinder, or getting the fish finder set-up so that you can read it at a reasonable speed is a big advantage. We fish out of a bigger boat some, and the transucers mounted through the hull are less trouble, but even with transom mounted tranducers, finding the best spot and using the right transducer is crutial to achieve this goal. 

Thanks for the questions and good luck in the upcoming year.


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## tomb

Jim, thanks for the leadcore expl. That all makes perfect sense.


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## coolerzfull

jim, when they talk about depth in the books. it is basically going on if you run 10# mono. like for the dipsy chart or RR chart. i run 30# pro prower. so do i let out more line or less then what the books/charts say? and if so by approx. how much?

next is on in-line boards. in the directions for the OR-12 you can set it up basically 3 ways. 
1, the Traditional Release Method. this is the way with a clip on the front and a in-line swivel the the line threads threw. This way the clip releases the line and the board slides down to the fish if i am understanding it right.

2nd way is basically the same as the first but it has clips on both ends and not the slip swivel i'll call it. i guess it stays clipped and you have to remove it before you reel in the fish all the way.

3rd way i see is "The Pro Method" you take the clip/slip swivel off the rear and put a clip up by the fist clip. so now you have both clips on the metal triangle arm. it says when you real in you have to stop and remove the board. then proceeding reeling in the fish.

finally my question is what way do you, or anyone elles, way do you run your boards? 1, 2 or 3.


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## Jim Stedke

coolerzful, 30 # Power Pro is the dia of 8# mono and according to the line conversion chart in the you should get 10 percent more depth with the thinner line. 

I believe the rough surface of the braided line causes more line drag than the smooth mono and this negates the effect. So I think you are getting nearly the same depth with 30# PowerPro as 10# XT.

Because I sometime use 10/4 Fireline, I set my boards up with the Snapper Releases up front to hold this thin super line, and use a red clip (like comes with snap weights) on the rear (2nd meethod)

I also have a set with Tattle Flags, and they have the same releases.

Thanks for the questions and good luck.


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## coolerzfull

ahh i totally forgot about the line dia. that helps allot. 

thats how i set up my boards method 2. i have only used them 3 or 4 times but it seemed like the easiest way. i have noticed that wind,waves and current will affect them allot. i could get one side running right but the other would hang back and seem not right. i'm looking forward to play with them more this spring.


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## BFG

> BFG: Early in the thread you mention not to drive in a straight line trolling with leadcore, why not?


Tomb...

Jim hit it right on the head. The beauty of leadcore is that in turns, depending on which side of the boat is inside/outside the turn...the leadcore will rise and fall with the subsequent change in speed experienced by each side of the spread. This is why leadcore is so effective, as walleyes (well, gamefish in general) are perpetual "followers" at times...and the slowing/speeding up that occurs with turns and core sometimes can make all the difference in the world. 

Snap weight systems work well too...but they don't go up and down like the core will...as the weight is located in one particular spot on the line..creating a "pull point" in the line, and this hinders the capability to "rise and fall" compared to leadcore..where the weight of the line is spread out over a greater distance. I also do not like the variables that one must endure with the snap weights...distance from the lure, distance from the board, etc.etc. 

You need to be careful when running leadcore out of the tip of your rod, as the lead inside will break, causing a weak spot in the line. This is likely not an issue with walleye fishing...but I've seen core break on kings at that spot. 

My best suggestion (assuming you fish the Western and Central basins) would be to spool up a 2 color, a 3 color, and a 5 color rig. This will cover 10'-25' down in the water column. Add on to that the depth the crank will run and you should be all set...and can adjust accordingly should you mark fish out of your "core zones." The leaders I add to the core are about 25' long. 

There are days where you could put a turd on a hook and catch walleyes...but there are other days when you need to do something different (typically calm days with little chop) and that is when the core should really shine for you. It has saved the day for me and my friends many, many times over. 

Basically, if you troll in a straight line with core...you are truly doing it a dis-service...turn every few minutes...slightly, like 10-20 degrees to port or starboard. If you catch a fish during or immediately after a turn...make a note of it and then keep doing it. Some days they want it faster...some days slower...

I'm with Jim when it comes to trolling speed...I prefer faster...cover more ground and turn around if you get out of a feeding school. So many guys get caught up in just trolling down wind and letting the chips fall where they may...and in fact my friends used to feel that way for the most part. Sure..riding in a quartering sea might not be the most comfortable, but for cripes sake if you are catching fish...does it matter??? LOL

Some of my best days have been when it's rough...for a multitude of reasons per my logic (which at times is not all there btw...) but if you run it correctly, core will help to put fish into your box...

Hope that helps...


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## tomb

As all your other explanations, more than ayone could ask for. Thanks. Even with all the explanations I've seen now and in the past, leadcore seems like a pain. But, then again I thought dipseys were a pain too, until we started limiting with them. Looks like I'll be trying at least one leadcore setup this year. I'm still hoping for all "turd" days.


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## BFG

> As all your other explanations, more than ayone could ask for. Thanks. Even with all the explanations I've seen now and in the past, leadcore seems like a pain. But, then again I thought dipseys were a pain too, until we started limiting with them. Looks like I'll be trying at least one leadcore setup this year. I'm still hoping for all "turd" days.


When you are ready to take the Leadcore Leap of Faith....let me know and I'll try to give you some pointers on setup that will lessen the learning curve for you. 

Core is really easy...sorta like that infomercial..."set it and forget it"...that is...until that board starts going back behind the boat over and over again...

lol


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## Jim Stedke

Just make sure your crankin arm is in shape (especially if you're runnin 7 colors off the outside board). 

BFG Have you even stuck a snap wt between the leader & the leadcore to initiate & speed up the setting procedure ?


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## Papascott

Jim 7 colors is a cake walk. We run 400 ft of copper with a 50 ft leader not including the braid backer that is out when you send out the board. Then when a king hits it and rips off 200 ft of backer and your reel is now so empty that the gear ratio is about 1 to 1. We call that rod the widow maker and it ALWAYS gets handed off to the rookies, I will not touch it unless its derby fishing.

Scott


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## Jim Stedke

Crank your a$$ off fishin is what that should be called.


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## Fishers of Men

Papascott said:


> Jim 7 colors is a cake walk. We run 400 ft of copper with a 50 ft leader not including the braid backer that is out when you send out the board. Then when a king hits it and rips off 200 ft of backer and your reel is now so empty that the gear ratio is about 1 to 1. We call that rod the widow maker and it ALWAYS gets handed off to the rookies, I will not touch it unless its derby fishing.
> 
> Scott


Tickled my fancy! LMAO I would love to see that! I'm used to the 4'0s and downriggers.


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## Jim Stedke

BFG, You seem quite experienced w/ leadcore. The leader and 1st couple colors can be a hassle because the stickbaits don't pull hard enough to pull line off the reel. Have you ever incorporated a snap wt. to assist and speed up the setting procedure.


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## BFG

Jim,

I have friends that will put up to 6oz. Snap Weights on full cores to get deep in the summer when the water warms up and the kings go deep. This is a MAJOR PITA....and boy oh boy does it pull on the board. This issue has been relieved to some extent with the advent of copper rigs..but they are expensive and tempermental. As stated previously, I've yet to see an accurate system for determining just how much affect on depth this added weight to core rigs has...and for the most part, there probably isn't a good gauge out there..as it would be dependent upon trolling speed and such. I know the Snap weight system has a reference guide, but not everyone trolls at 2.0mph with 10# mono. 

An easy way to get core out with light lures on the business end is to put the lure in the water behind the boat, pulling off the leader with the free-spool clicker engaged, up until you have about 5-7' of core off the reel and into the water. Next, place the rod tip under the water directly behind the prop wash, disengaging the free spool clicker. The core will pull off quite easily with the assistance of the trailing prop wash. You will have to thumb the spool at this point to prevent the dreaded "core over-run". Once you get 2-3 colors in the water, you can put the rod in a holder with the tip up high in the air, and gravity will feed the core off the reel in no time at all. You might have to help it along a bit from time to time...but that is about as simple as it gets for deploying core rigs. And I agree...it does take some time to do it right. One other tip is that when you are bringing in a core rig that does not have a fish on it...it is paramount that the angler run the core through their fingers to get it spooled back on the reel tightly. This will help tremendously when putting it back in the water. 

One of my best friends is a charter captain on Lake Michigan (Salmonhead), and he routinely runs 4-6 leadcore sets in his spread on a daily basis. Anywhere from 2 colors on an outside board for steelies up high, all the way to the dreaded "tuna stick" which contains an unbelievable 21 colors. Ugh!! Paul runs two braid divers per side, (mag divers w/ mag rings) and only two riggers. I fish with him 6-8 days per season, and it is not uncommon for us to be setting 3+ core rods at a time. 

If you can't tell already....Paul doesn't like to fish around other boats....LOL

I will say this though...there aren't many guys who can routinely catch fish during the middle of the day on Lake Michigan...but he's one of them, and the majority of those fish come on the leadcore. 

I also have a friend who came up with a way to eliminate the need for so many different core lengths on separate reels. He uses an Okuma CV55L and spools a full core on it (use either Dacron or braid for backing), separating it along the way every two colors with a 6' section of 20# mono. The mono sections are where he attaches the board, and it is a very versatile setup. Sure, it's a lot of extra knots...but the Willis knot (when tied properly) will not fail, and instead of having to buy 4-5 different reels for core...he can cover from 10'-50' with one rig. Four of those on the boat and you should be good to go. 

A word of caution for those considering adding snap weights to core is that if you are using pinch-pad type releases to attach your weight, be sure to attach it to the leader, and not the core. Reason being, I've seen a bunch of rigs come back without the weight when that core gets tight while fighting a fish. One might not think this applicable for walleyes, but those big girls make that line pretty tight....especially when being drug along at 2.5mph...

With the exception of my BIL...most of my friends have abandoned the snap weight program and switched to all leadcore. Paul calls leadcore..."a brainless way to fish...that catches fish..." if that makes any sense. 

Hope that helps..and sorry for hijacking the questions directed at you Jim.


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## Jim Stedke

BFG, Dang man you gotta be a better typer than me. Thanks for the thorough reply. 

So you know I was talking about 1 or 1-1/2oz wt. just to get the leadcore started. Your prop wash idea sounds like a winner. So long as I don't get the line in the way of the prop.

We treat the snap wt. as a replacment for 1 color of leadcore.

Thanks for the reply and good luck.


----------



## BFG

> So you know I was talking about 1 or 1-1/2oz wt. just to get the leadcore started. Your prop wash idea sounds like a winner. So long as I don't get the line in the way of the prop.


You shouldn't have a problem with the line in the prop...as the spoon/crank will be 40'+ behind the boat when you drop the tip in the water...and I mean just the tip...not like 1/2 the rod or something. The turbulence helps out a lot...

Once it gets going, put it in a holder and get to setting another one...keeping an eye on it from time to time. 

You should see Paul set his cores at "high speed"...basically sets 4 cores at once at like 5mph....

Not for the weak hearted...LOL


----------



## tomb

That "2 color- 6' -2 color........" setup sounds like a great idea. That's the one I'm gonna try.


----------



## Guest

If I were set up two rods just for cranks with in line boards what pound test line would you run and would it be mono, Flourcarbon, fireline, or braid? The boards are offshore with OR-18.


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## Jim Stedke

tubuzz2, Now there's a question with many right answers. And much of it has to do with what you have confidence in. But I'll be running mono until the fish go deep (mid July). Not to say that 10/4 Fireline doesn't have it's time & place, but most of time I'll be running mono. Behind Offshore boards with Tattleflags & Snapper Releases. 

The beauty of our fishery is, you can catch them anyway you want to. Fast, slow, high, low and of course on a variety of lures, spinners or spoons.

If you want to give me a time of year and location, I'll give you my thoughts on it. (anyone else is welcome as well)

 Thanks for the question and good luck.


----------



## Guest

Spring to mid summer when they go deep. I know a few guys swear by 10lbs mono. I have two rods I am going to deicate for cranks. Right know I use 14lds fireline for my cranks.


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## Jim Stedke

tubuzz2 said:


> Spring to mid summer when they go deep. I know a few guys swear by 10lbs mono. I have two rods I am going to deicate for cranks. Right know I use 14lds fireline for my cranks.



Before they go deep, I'd use mono. After they go deep stay with the 14/6 Fireline and use snap wts.(with rubber bands instead of snaps...no more lost wts.), or you may think about leadcore. It also depends on what your running with the cranks (if anything) and what you think is more fun. With all this technical stuff don't forget fishin is supposed to be fun. 

Thanks for the question and good luck.


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> Before they go deep, I'd use mono. After they go deep stay with the 14/6 Fireline and use snap wts.(with rubber bands instead of snaps...no more lost wts.), or you may think about leadcore. It also depends on what your running with the cranks (if anything) and what you think is more fun. With all this technical stuff don't forget fishin is supposed to be fun.
> 
> Thanks for the question and good luck.


ok, ill bite. what do you mean rubber bands?


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## rippin lip

ezbite said:


> ok, ill bite. what do you mean rubber bands?


attach a weight to a rubber band and then attach the rubber band to the line just like you would using rubber bands on your line when running them in clips on big boards - when you reel it in the rubber band will snap and the weight will fall in the boat.


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## reo

I use the rubber bands for snap weights too, not that I care that much about losing the weights as the clips. They are not cheap and are easily misplaced or stepped on when on the deck of the boat in the excitement of catching the fish. Another good thing about them is that a little piece usually stays in the line so you can put another right in the same place.

Another trick I will use the rubber bands for is a bottom bouncer. Instead of the coat hanger type bb just clip the weight (cheap two eye) on with a rubber band ahead of the harness, if it hangs you come back with everything except the weight, usually.


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## Jim Stedke

We remove the wt. by snapping the rubber band off the line by hand. Unless we're running only 6' ahead of the lure (which we do quite a bit).


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## reo

Jim Stedke said:


> We remove the wt. by snapping the rubber band off the line by hand. Unless we're running only 6' ahead of the lure (which we do quite a bit).


Me too, I know folks do as rippin but I am not comfy with the wieght smacking against the rod tip.


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## Jim Stedke

With the red rubber bands we use, it could not be good on the tip top or the tip of the rod. They don't break easily.


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## RBud1080

Jim, I noticed you said something about how you can mark fish while running. I can't do that. I can only mark fish up to about 6mph and depth up to about 20mph. My transducer is mounted on the stern just above the bottom of the boat. Do you think it is a problem with how it is mounted or the transducer that I have? I would love to get this problem fixed.


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## Jim Stedke

If the transducer is over 5 years old it may have soured. That's what they call it when a transducer gets corroded internally. If it's newer and hasn't been inpacted by something in the water, it's likely a mounting problem. 

You might look into a skimmer trancducer (if available). They seem to work better, but they are more exposed to damage by debris.

I hope this helps, and good luck.


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## Papascott

Jim, I have an idea along the lines of using a three way, crank and harness. Instead of using the standard 3 way swivel I was thinking of running the crank behind a regular barrel swivel with a bead above it on a 6-8ft leader. I would then tie my harness 4-6ft with a round bend snap swivel. After letting the crank out to the desired depth/ lead length, I would fasten the harness just like a free slider used on a rigger rod. I am thinking that this would be alot easier than the PITA it is to set a regular 3way rig and hopefully make it faster to set. Your talking about setting core and tricks to make it quicker had me thinking about this.

Have you ever tried this or in your opinion would this be worth the time to try, as I hate setting a regular 3way rig.

Scott


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## snake69

You guys mention the fish going deep. Don't have an idea how deep you mean, but as I only fished Erie this past year, and they were in the 45' range when I started. My question, how deep or shallow are they *before* they go deep?


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## Jim Stedke

Scott, I've done about the same thing running on harness above another off of Dipsys, but I've never tried it with a crank & a harness. The harness would only have the drag of the snap over the line on it's way out, so it would be hanging under the line. When it hit the bead, it would need to get past the line to the lure. My only question would be how often would it tangle, on it's way past. Like always the problem is ...they can be tangled and you don't know it. 

With the Dipsys it's more of verticle slide, with the crank it would be more horizontal. I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

If it didn't tangle very often it would be great, and it may only wrap 1 in 10. But I hate tangles. I hate em, I hate em, ihateem !!!

I should remind everyone that in Ohio a total of 3 hooks per line is the law, So you either have to use a single hook harness, or a single hook on the lure. (a treble only counts as 1 hook).

Thanks for the question, and I hope it works out.


----------



## blue dolphin

Scott i have experimented with the setup you said and Jim hit the nail on the head with the harness free falling down the to bead it sometimes tangles it seemed the calmer it was the less this would happen. But there was that amount of doubt everytime you sent it out. I can say that i have done it with a crank and spoon and it works great. Hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, Good question. A majority of the central and eastern basin walleyes migrate to the reefs off Davis Bessie to spawn, and return east soon afterward. Most years they travel in the 32 - 36' deep water fairly close to shore. These fish feed primarily on smelt which are cold water fish (under 65 degrees), so when the water gets to that 65 degree mark the smelt move out to deeper colder water, and most (NOT ALL) of the walleyes follow them. This is what we are talikg about. It typically occurs around the middle of July.

When the water is cooler, they can be shallow as 3 or 4' in dirty water or at night. How shallow they are depends on where they find concentrations of bait. Jeff Liskay has an intimate knowledge of the shallow structure off Cleveland and he does well in 16 to 25' but his fish aren't big smelt eating fish.

Thanks for the question and good luck.


----------



## ezbite

jim, you posted eariler about using rubber bands to attach snap weights to your line, ive been playing with this in the basement and i think im going to remove all snaps and run all weights like this. i ran power pro and some mono across the basement and did some pull test and by far the power pro was the easiest to snap the rubber band from, the mono strectched a little. i guess im asking if you think this would be a good idea or should i keep a few snaps weights intact just in case? and if so why? why hasen't anybody ever talked about this? seem like a no brainer now i see it work. thanks


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## Lundy

Rubber bands to attach the line to the tow line when running big boards has become my standard for a few years now. Works well with braid or mono. Use plain shower curtain hook or regular releases. Half hitch rubber band around line, connect to release and slide it out the tow line.

Really easy, no more concern about how deep to set the line in the release, no more false releases, easy indication of a small fish, simple to release a line from the tow line, works for walleye to salmon with simple rubber band changes, etc, etc. it is as easy and reliable as it can get.


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## Jim Stedke

Lundy, That works great with the standard tan bands but if you're using the red bands you'd better be running a super braid, because the red bands are very difficult to break with mono. 

Just a heads up.


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## Jim Stedke

ez, I'd carry a few snaps for a few trips to get your confidence up. See what happens, but I'm guessing you'll soon leave em home. 

It has been discussed in the past. 

Just a couple tips. Cinch the band on the line to prevent sliding. When removing the weight be careful not to let the band slide on the line it will burn the line and cause a weak spot.


----------



## Lundy

No doubt Jim,

I learned that the hard way very quickly some years ago


----------



## BFG

Good thing to do when using rubber bands and shower curtain hooks off of big boards is to wind the broken band onto the reel. Most guys are using very light bands, so they'll go through the guides and levelwind. 

Once the fish is landed and you are re-setting...you will know exactly where to put the new band. This works great when guys do not have linecounter reels on board. I know that I used to get tired of counting passes...and one cannot always count on linecounter numbers from reel to reel to be accurate...especially if one reel is spooled with less line than the other...




BFG


----------



## Jim Stedke

Good point.


----------



## fishingguy

On the rubber band thing. I find that the bands slip down the line with the super braids, soon or later the weight will slip all the way down to the lure or whatever. Two bands are better than one, and a couple of half hitches around the line after you attach the weight help also. I just reach out and grab the rubber band and snap it and put the weight in my pocket when reeling it in. Very inexpensive method, not perfect, but it works.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The "put it my pocket" is a good point. One of the biggest problems with bands is that the weights end up going home with you or your fishing buddy. You end up being short of the more common weight sinkers. When we're running wts. we make it a point for everyone to check their pockets before getting off the boat. 

We haven't starting frisking people, but it may come to that. LOL


----------



## fishingguy

That's funny Jim. I got a half dozen sinkers right now in my top drawer. Gotta check them pockets.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Yes indeed, and probably so do the guys you fish with.


----------



## BFG

Imagine the surprise on my wife's face when she heard two Lauverik (sp?) releases banging around in the washer during the spin cycle...

"What the Hell are those???"

LOL


----------



## Fish-N-Fool

BFG - To build on fishingguy's point, if you run braid the rubber band is almost never in the same location. I have pretty reliable line counters and I typically reel the bands into the reel when a fish is on. I run all identical rods/reels & line (I like power-pro) and I periodically check the reels before fishing - just pull 15 ft. of line out and see what they all read. When resetting the line I always rip off the old band and use the linecounter - there can be a decent discrepancy between what my linecounter tells me compared to the old band's placement on the line. Better than nothing no doubt (it should be close), but that is my experience when running braided line.


----------



## BFG

Without a doubt it is more difficult to run bands on braid...

I was just commenting on the fact many guys fall into the line of thinking that a linecounter reads the same amount of line every time..and this is not true if the spool is not filled the exact same as all of the others. 

Probably not so much of an issue on the smaller linecounters, but for sure it makes a difference on the larger counters...

My buddy ran into some problems awhile back with that issue, and we eventually figured out that the cause of the problem was that he used different types of line for backer (some Dacron, some mono)...but the same amount of braid went onto each reel. A few of his reels were more full than the others...

Some might not think this to be a big deal, but when running more than 2 lines per side off big boards with mini-discs...if you don't get the lead length pretty close to the same on everyone, you are asking for tangles.


----------



## Jim Stedke

BFG The "same length" comment reminds me that with big boards it's best to run the same length on each side to minimize tangles. This is particularly a good idea for those learning. And the same holds true for wts. If you want to add wt., your better off to put it on everything on that side.

Just a couple by the by tips.


----------



## Lundy

I've had very little problem running the different lengths on the big boards. I do however sometimes have trouble getting those fishing with me to utilize enough patience for the lines to clear before retrieving.

It's really hard for some to just hold on and not reel right away when they know a walleye is on the other end


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## Jim Stedke

Lundy, I guessing you learned the old "wait for the line to clear" trick the same way the rest of us did (by picking up the inside lines when you didn't). LOL Isn't experience a wonderful teacher.


Jets behind bid boards require this technique as well.


----------



## Lundy

Jim Stedke said:


> Lundy, I guessing you learned the old "wait for the line to clear" trick the same way the rest of us did (by picking up the inside lines when you didn't). LOL Isn't experience a wonderful teacher.


Most of the best learned lessons in life seem to always come from personal suffering


----------



## eyesman_01

I'm glad my personal experience was built on someone else's suffering.  Thanks to what I learned from you guys on here last winter, my own learning experience with big boards this last year was virtually painless, and I caught fish. Thanks again guys for sharing your knowledge and posting threads such as this.


----------



## eyesman_01

Just became the proud owner of 8 Tite-Lok Multi-Lok rod holders on ebay. Lost the bid on a set of 6, so I bid and won a pair. Then I got a "second chance" offer from the first auction because he had another set of 6 to sell. I couldn't pass up the deal, so I bought them too.

My boat's only an 18 footer with seating for 4, but usually will only be 2 or 3 fishing most of the time. So, I figure I'll only mount 3 per side, and maybe the other 2 off the back if they are ever needed. Most use will be with big boards, though thanks to Het and cw261 for teaching me the finer arts of dipseys, they will also be added to my arsenal.

Question is: I remember last year you talked about mounting them a certain distance apart. If I remember correctly, it was @ 10 inches apart? Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Eyesman, Glad to hear we helped you put fish in the boat. That's what we're hoping to do. We appreciate the attaboy.

Yes I recommend keeping them close together, to facilitate reading one rod off of another (for Dipsys or boards). How close depends on what reels you use and what you're comfortable with for reel clearance, 9 to 11" should be in the ball park. 

I assume they are tube holders, so removing rods while board fishing (with th rods at a high angle) won't be an issue. But with the Dipsys at a low to the water angle, you need to think about making rod removal easy and safe in rough water. 

If your boat has side rails, I'd get the rail mounts and attach them to the rails. Then you have the luxury of moving if you want. If not just take your time and think about all the issues. 

Here's a list of considerations:
You want the rod tips to be easy to see.
You want the rods to be easy to get to and remove.
You want seperation between the mast and the rod holders to keep the fishing lines out of the tow line in turns.
You don't want the holders in the way for getting in or out of the boat.

Most of these lead to mounting the holders as far to the rear as is reasonable. And I'd keep them all together. One holder by itself at the rear would be good for a flatlined leadcore rod, but if you were doing that, I'd suggest a second holder to allow for a 45 degree outside rod. Spliting the 4 holders into 2 groups of 2 may be worth thinking about, but it would mess up running 3 board rods a side (which it sounds like will be your primary use).

Keep them as close to the inside edge of the gunnel as possible, and use backer plates and through bolts with double nuts.

Get them where they need to be the first time, nobody likes needless holes from relocated rod holders.

I've used Tite-Loks before, they make a good holder. I've won several tournaments with them.

Thanks for the question and good luck.

One last thought... when you breakdown, always ALWAYS put the holders in the verticle position before heading in. If you forget, a dock post may have you looking for replacments.


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> One last thought... when you breakdown, always ALWAYS put the holders in the verticle position before heading in. If you forget, a dock post may have you looking for replacments.




this is great advise, i went thru it 2 years ago at lakeshore ramp in ashtabula. didnt see it, only heard it. its never a good thing to hear crunching when coasting along the dock.

eyesman, dont feel bad, i got outbid on the same 6 pack and a 2 pack too.


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## eyesman_01

Thanks for the advice Jim. I have a set of 6 attwoods set up on the boat now and they've done fine for the boards. But I was told they'd never stand up to the rigors of dipseys. I also like the versatility of the Tite-Loks. The attwoods are limited in their positioning movement.


Sorry ezbite, it was probably me that took the 2 pack. Were they the used ones? Or the new ones I saw last week? The 6 pack is the set I really wanted. I've been wanting a set of these since using them on Steve's boat. Suprised me when I got a message from the guy saying he had another set of 6 I could buy for my high bid. I only saved $30 or so from buying new, (and $2.50 less than the guy who won the auction) but with the extra washers and cut in shipping, I still believe I got a good deal. I'll let you know for sure when they're delivered. I promise I won't outbid you on the next set.


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## Jim Stedke

Eyesman, I somewhat expected that you did not all the basics that I put in my reply, but on this forum, I try to not only answer the questions, but also explain the why & wherefors for many who only read and need the info in somewhat of a ground up basis. 

Goodluck with the new holders.


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## eyesman_01

By all means Jim, explain away. I'm just a rookie and enjoy reading all your why's and wherefore's. I learned so much from last years thread I'm hanging on every post on this one, if only to refresh my memory. Thanks again.


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## jimbobber

never tried either one and just want your chose on this two devices

jim:F


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## Jim Stedke

As divers go they couldn't be more different. The Jet Diver floats as you send it back and dives after the boat begins to pull it, and it has no release. The Deep 6 is weighted and ofcourse sinks, and it does have a release.

So which would be best for you depends on how deep the fish are that you're trying to reach, and what if anything you intend to run with them.

If you're in the central or eastern basins, the Deep 6 will take spoons, stickbaits or harnesses down to the 50' ranges typical for that area. If you're in the western basin Jets will get you all the depth you need with those same lures, but they would require longer leads.

I'm curious to know why you're looking at Deep 6s rather than the much more popular Dipsy Divers. 

Hope this helps, and thanks for the question.


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## jimbobber

will i was thinking of runing dipsy out the sides and deep 6 strate out the back .


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## Jim Stedke

The Book says a#1 Dipsy set at 0 on 30# braid will be at 48' w/100' of line out. The #2 Deep 6 (the big one) w/100'of 30# braid goes to 50'. So the diffference is negligable. Can you do it? Absolutly you can. 

I'd say this, I not very experienced with the Deep 6s and I know that Mark Romanack was favorably impressed with them, so you may want try them and see if they are easier and less troublesome than the Dipsys. They may be, and that would be reason enough to go to them for your application. 

Hope this helps, and thanks for the question.


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## ezmarc

I use the Deep 6's only occassionally and I use them on inline boards. I see no advantage to them over dipsy's other than they don't pull as hard and therefore you can use lighter equipment and holders with them while flatlining. 

On the boards I prefer the fish seekers over the deep sixes because they aren't nearly as speed sensitive. The old style Fish seekers that break away are my preferred method if not using lead, snaps, mini discs or wire but there are other reasons that I would put deep sixes out but alas my writing skills don't compare to Jim's so I'll leave it at that. 

BTW Stinger spoons has a diving in line weight out now that i used a couple times last year. They are tricky to set up but they do a really nice job of going deep without so much weight added and can be placed anywhere on your line similar to a snap weight. It's called a dive bomb I believe.


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## fishingguy

I just had to do a search for those newfangled thangs. I found this. There is even a web page for them. It's in the forum.
http://www.mistinger.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20


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## Jim Stedke

Marc, Stinger Spoons wt's that have a diving profile are called Dive Bombs, and they come in 1, 2, 3, & 4 oz sizes. They have a stainless steel hanger that hooks over your line and a tapered hard rubber pin that you use to fix it on your line, and as you stated you cand put at anylength you like ahead of your lure. 

They are brand new and likely will be hard to find right now.

The post above has a link (Thank you)

After going to the link, I see that the Dive Bombs pictured are not the new improved versions. The photos show the old style where the hanger is made of lead. The revised version has the hanger made of stainless steel. I'm sure the pros and cons will be discussed on this site after we've had a chance to play with them.


----------



## Rednek

Jim,

I've been re-reading posts 108-114 over and over trying to figure out what you are doing.

Are you just half-hitching the rubber band to both the weight and the line?

Have you lost snap weights using the OR-16 clips where the line is below the post on the clip making to difficult to come off the line?

I haven't had any issues as of yet with using OR-16 snap weights for the 50/50 and 20+ methods. I'm using 40/10 PowerPro.

Thanks


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## Jim Stedke

*******, We went to rubber bands before the pin type releases came out. The bubber bands don't catch as much water as the clips, and once we got accustomed to them we never went back. 

I would be inclined to tell you, "if it ain't broke don't fix it." or just keep doin what works for you. 

I'm not trying to sell anything here, neither am I inclined to think that my way is the only way. I answer as straight and sincerly as I know how. But the option to take it or leave it is always there.

I most certainly am not trying to confuse or complicate the situation. 

Thanks for the reply, and good luck.


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## jimbobber

thanks jim . i think i need to go to a simanar on defth fishing . iam one of those hands on kind of guys 

jim:G


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## Jim Stedke

If you're fairly new to deeper fishing, be aware that speed is a big deal, with anything that is weighted like Dipsys, Deep 6s, snap wts., leadcore, etc.

The diving planer that is not effected greatly by speed is the Jet. Because of this & its lack of a release or other mechanism, it what to be logical that it would be easiest to learn and simplest to catch fish with. So you may, want to start there.


----------



## fishingguy

A picture is worth a thousand words. For those of you confused over the rubber band thing. The second loop slows the slippage problem I believe.


----------



## ezbite

how much slippage are we talking about here? 1 foot or 2 i dont think that would be a big deal. more than that? i know when i slip bobber fish i use white teflon tape as a bobber stop. think that would work. just a few wraps around the line at 50' or what ever your mark is. i know that stuff is pretty hard to move up and down the line if you get it tight and reels right up thru the guides. that should stop the rubber bands from riding down the line and its always where you want it. no more counting wraps or watching the line counter, just let line out until you see the tape. looks like something else im going to have to play with.


----------



## fishingguy

With the braid, I've had the sinkers come back in all the way down to the bait or swivel. Usually it takes some time to start slipping, but once it starts it goes fast. If the line is out for 1 hour, its a good bet the sinker is all the way down. The bobber stop method could work. I'm sure it's been tried. If you read your line wear it enters the water, you can sometimes tell if it has slipped. The line will be entering the water further back from where it was when first set. If your using a board than there is no way of knowing. Just reel in every 1/2 hour or so to check.


----------



## FreeByrdSteve

For the guys worried about rubber bands slipping down the braid you can put a one twist in the braid where you attach the rubber band. I started doing this probably 8 years ago for attaching rubber bands to braid for using with big planar boards to stop the band from slipping. It's not something I've seen other people do and sometimes it get's strange looks when I do it. Maybe not a good idea if you were fishing for 30+ pound king salmon, but I've never had a problem / broke a line, etc. doing this walleye fishing and couldn't even guess how many thousand times I've set lines this way. I do the same thing when using a rubber band to attach a "snapweight" to braid. Really if you just take some time and "snug" the rubber band down it isn't much of an issue even without using the loop I put in the braid. Now I'm talking about either 30/8 or 40/10 braid. Maybe more of an issue if you are talking about smaller diameter braid and I bet an even bigger issue if you are talking about Fireline rather than braid. The type of rubber bands probably play a role as well. As Jim stated above if you have something that is working and you are happy with then by all means stick with it. If I am using an acual "snapweight" on a clip I prefer the Church clips for using on braid.
Steve


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## Jim Stedke

With the tuffer red rubber bands you can cinch them down tight enough to virtually eliminate slipage. We've run 2 ozs 6' ahead of lures for 8 hours without a problem. 

Perhaps it's a bigger problem with heavier wts, that's somewhat logical, but we've no seen it.

Hope this helps and good luck.


----------



## BFG

> We've run 2 ozs 6' ahead of lures for 8 hours without a problem.


For goodness sakes man...if you haven't changed a bait in 8 hours...you should strongly consider it!!!      (said with Irish accent...makes it even more funny...)

LOL


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## Jim Stedke

BFG, If I haven't changed the lure in 8 hrs, you can rest assured that it's catching. 

Beside I may have changed the lure several time without removing the wt. 

I have a good friend who is a very good fisherman, who changes so quickly that I give the lures this pep-talk before setting.... "men Kevin's onboard today, so let's not be messing around out there!! Or you'll be resting in the Plano." LOL


----------



## fishingguy

A twist in the line! BRILLIANT! Wonder why I never thought of that? Problem solved. Thanks Freebyrd. Probably need another pic. lol


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## Jim Stedke

Must be Friday . The whole dern bunch of us are slaphappy. LOL


----------



## FreeByrdSteve

Jim Stedke said:


> Must be Friday . The whole dern bunch of us are slaphappy. LOL


Here's why I'm in a stellar mood!

3 days of fishing in the Florida Keys and then 3 days working the Miami Boat Show...

Travel Plans for Steve Carlson 
Worldspan Trip Locator: 4F8D3B	


Sunday - 10 February 2008 Flight

Flight #:	CO1685 Airline:	Continental Airlines Inc
Depart:	09:25 AM Airport:	Cleveland Hopkins Int'l Arpt
Cleveland, OH
USA
Arrive:	12:22 PM Airport:	Fort Lauderdale Int'l Arpt
Terminal 1 Fort Lauderdale, FL
USA
Aircraft:	Boeing 737-800 Confirmation:	BJ02R5
Seat:	23-C Mileage:	1065
Class:	COACH Travel Time:	2.57
Meal:	Snack Stopovers:	0




Sunday - 17 February 2008 Flight

Flight #:	CO1440 Airline:	Continental Airlines Inc
Depart:	07:15 PM Airport:	Fort Lauderdale Int'l Arpt
Terminal 1 Fort Lauderdale, FL
USA
Arrive:	10:14 PM Airport:	Cleveland Hopkins Int'l Arpt
Cleveland, OH
USA
Aircraft:	Boeing 737-500 Confirmation:	BJ02R5
Seat:	19-C Mileage:	1065
Class:	COACH Travel Time:	2.59
Meal:	Snack Stopovers:	0


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## Jim Stedke

Now that's just cold !!!


----------



## reo

Jim Stedke said:


> With the tuffer red rubber bands you can cinch them down tight enough to virtually eliminate slipage. We've run 2 ozs 6' ahead of lures for 8 hours without a problem.
> 
> Perhaps it's a bigger problem with heavier wts, that's somewhat logical, but we've no seen it.
> 
> Hope this helps and good luck.


I have used 3 and 4 ouncees and have never had one "slip" But I do pull the rubber band tight on the line, 30/8 power pro. In fact I have hung them on the bottom, broke the rubber band and the little piece is left on the line right where I put it.


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## Jim Stedke

reo, Thanks, maybe we need to emphsize TIGHT as in once in a while you'll break the band. 

Thanks for the confirmation and good luck.


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
What is the difference between PowerPro line and Powerpro Spectra line
Thanks,
Ron


----------



## Jim Stedke

Ron, Any line that is made of Spectra fiber is what we commonly call a superbraid. There's a ton of them now. Power pro is popular because of it's low price and the fact that is more round than many of the others. 

Power Pro is a company like Seaguar, Stren, or Sufix. I'm not familiar with Power Pros other lines. But if you'd check their web site I'm sure they'd clear things up for you.

Thanks for the question, and good luck.


----------



## Bob Why

Ron, Two different companies. Spectra is P-Line from G. Pucci & Sons, Inc, Brisbane, CA and Power Pro is from Innovative Textiles, inc, Grand Junction, CO. Both are very good lines.


----------



## Buckeye Ron

Thanks Jim and Bob for the information. Bob is the p-line like the regular p-line that is on the market?
Thanks,
Ron


----------



## Jim Stedke

Ron, I don't know where the P-line come from, but here's a link to the P-line Spectrex (Spectra fiber line), and it looks pretty good. http://www.p-line.com/product_detail.php?id=103

My guess would be that it is more expensive than Power-Pro.


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## Buckeye Ron

thanks Jim


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## BFG

I've used the Sufix braid with really good results. Doesn't fade and get all powdery looking like PP, and it is less expensive. Sufix ran a great deal on their braid last year...$10.00 rebate per 300 yard spool. It doesn't flatten out like other braids over time either. Well, at least not after one season on my stuff. 

Most of the quality braids are going to run you about $10.00+ per 100 yards, unless buying in bulk, like 1500 yd spools, where you will see a reduction in that price per 100 yds.

To be honest...many of my charter captain friends buy 50# braid in the least expensive brand that they can and forget about the rest, as it is not used in "stealth" presentations.


----------



## jshbuckeye

Of the 3 that is worm harnesses, hard plastics,stick baits and spoons i have a decent selection of the harnesses and plastics no spoons. I hope to be able to fish the island area this yr drifting and trolling im thinking of staying away from the spooons mostly cause i dont have them and would like to concentrate on what i know a lil about. I find it hard to beleave that if the bait is presented to the walleye in there strike zone that the spoons will be the only thing they are wanting at that present time.Is there a time of yr for the spoons or is it that they can be fished behind a dipsy at a very controlled depth?


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Usually spoons do better a little later in the year with stick baits being the best in the early spring. I normally have 3 people in the boat so I normally run 4 stick baits, a spoon, and a crawler harness and let the fish tell me what they prefer.

We had a couple of trips in April where we could do no wrong with sticks and crawlers. One trip in particular we killed them on spoons rode high in the water colum. I am talking about just 3 colors of lead a ten foot leader and then a spoon. We had 4 days of bright sunny warm weather before that trip though!

I ran the new crystal fire line all year and never had any issues. I also switched my boards over to the new clamps and they worked great!

Had one bite off from either a large pike or muskie. It took my steel leader crawler harness and almost a foot of 12lb. berkley XT with it. I would have liked to seen that fish!


----------



## BFG

I think that question has more to do with water temperature than anything else. They all work from time to time, with overlap of course....but spoons rule in the summer if you are trolling...especially in the Western Basin. We troll spoons A LOT faster than most will run their cranks or harnesses as well. 

Cranks seem to be fairly speed tolerant, but harnesses usually equates to slow, slower, and slowest. However...as evidenced by the million and one posts here and other places...harnesses w/ meat typically take larger fish in the warmer months...


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## Jim Stedke

jshbuckeye, To me spoons are a late May - Sept thing. But I'd hasten to add that by mid -June the small white perch and white bass can be pretty bad. That's when we go to full size deep diving crankbaits (Reef Runners). And we reduce the number of trash fish drastcally, while upgrading the size on the walleyes. 

I hope this helps, and good luck.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The color question came up on the Ole Pete's thread and favorite Reef Runner colors was brought up. So to not hijack that thread, I thought I'd bring that question here.

Colors are a function season, water clearity, area being fished, and preferred forage. And by the time we'd discuss all that I'd have blisters, so suffice to say that not all colors are universal but many are and the more universal colors are what i'm going to list here.

Bare Naked, Pearl Ghost, Purple Ghost, Purple white tiger, Hucklberry, Purple wild thing, Eriedescent, Bubble Gum, Emerald Shinner, Chartruse Wonderbread, Barbie, Easter egg, Purple Prism, Pink Lemonade, Cheap Sunglasses, Mooneye Minnow, Rainbow Trout, Purple Demon, Trailer Trash Pink (pink scale), Cat Dog, Chrome blue back, Clown, Purple Prism, Salamander or night moves, Hot Tomale, Orange Peel, Mud Minnow, Pink Squirrel, Fruit Loops. That's 30 off the top of my head, and I'm sure I left some out.

For starters get a mix of clear prism or nakeds, white based, bright colors, subtle colors and chromes making sure you cover the biggys like purple, chartuse, blue, green, pink, orange and your favorite if I missed it. 

Color is seldom, if ever, the most important variable. Depth is almost always more important and always as important as color. And speed is as important also (partly because it has much to do about depth).

Hope this helps, come on Spring!


----------



## ezbite

ive been watching alot of fishing vids/dvd. i saw one tip about putting a large split shot about 5 feet up on your line from the crankbait when trolling to keep weeds and junk from riding down the line to the crank, kinda like a stop. ever hear of this? what do you think of this idea? for us, weed weren't really a problem unless it had stormed the day before or we were fishing within a few miles of shore. it was also stated that the split shot pins the crank. i thought you wanted that roaming action to trigger strikes.

he also said color is 3rd on the list. 
1-action
2-profile
3-color


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## Jim Stedke

ez, It's a good tip but we've found that a rubber band works better. Weeds become a huge deal in the islands after the middle of June. 

If someone came up with an effective weed slicer, it would be quite useful.

Thanks for question, & come on Spring.


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## ezbite

how do you apply the rubber band?


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## Jim Stedke

ezbite said:


> how do you apply the rubber band?


Loop it over the line and cinch it down, just like when putting on a sinker, only leave off the sinker.


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## Bob Why

Ron, P-Line Spectrex is a braided line. Check the link that Jim gave and it has all of their lines listed. I've been using the Floroclear and Florocarbon for a few years and the Spectrex for about 3. I don't have a favorite and I'm not locked into one specific brand of braided line. Spectrex, Power Pro, Suffex and Shakespeares Ugly Braid are all good lines and I use them all. When I worked at Dick's, I always bought the newest products so that I could check them out and give my customers an honest opinion. Still check out the new to see if there is something better.


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, I agree, some hold color better than others, and some hold their shape better than others, but they all hold the fish fine and last for several seasons. The key is Spectra fiber which is the trade-mark name of the base material.


----------



## Papascott

I have a reel Question. I am thinking about setting up new rod and reels for tourny use and not for friends, if you know what I mean. I cannot decide between reels. I have mostly Daiwa sg47lc now with a couple of 27 in the mix and 6 or 8 convectors. I just want 5 of the exact same for accuracy and want something good.

At the top of the list I have the tekota 300s, next is the catalina 15d then in last place is the daiwa 17 or maybe the 27. I can get 2 daiwas for the price of a tekota, and the okuma is just slightly more expensive than the daiwa. 

In your experience is the tekota worth the double price? And lastly have you used the catalina at all? Thanks for any insight.

Scott


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## Jim Stedke

Scott, I've had a set of 4 Tekotas for 3 years. Rich ran a couple Catalinas all last year, on Dipsy rods (tough duty), we've had 27s for years, but I've not put any miles on the 17s. The Tekotas are superior, without a doubt. But they should be. I think you'd be well pleased with the Catalina (unless they cheapened them), The 17s keep ezmarc happy, so I expect they'd perform OK as well. The smoothest drag is the Tekota. 

If you want the best go Tekota. Worth twice the price ? Man... that's gotta be your call. 

But, I know if had a 12#er roll over 20' out and saw she was only on 1 hook in the skin of her jaw, I'd be glad I spent the money.

Let us know what you decide. And good luck.


----------



## BFG

Jim....

The original Catalinas had some issues, and rather than cheapen them...Okuma has improved them..as well as with the changes they made to the Convectors a couple years back. Unfortunately...the changes only came after many, many customers became dissatisfied with their Okuma reels, and they lost a lot of business as a result. 

I have nothing against them...and for walleyes, the Catalina would make a very nice reel. My buddy had problems with the drags creeping while pulling braid divers, but much like a new Tekota...a quick pull on the line to "set" the drag seemed to help. Once a few screamers took off...the drags were broken in..and worked very well. 

All kidding aside though..you will have a tough time finding a better levelwind linecounter than the Tekota. I would skip the 300 and go straight to the 500 for all walleye applications. Paired with a Talora rod...it is hard to beat...

But boy...it might take the average Joe about 10 years to get his boat full of 'em.....and I see they've gone up AGAIN....

I am also a big fan of the Daiwa SG line...and the 27's are plenty big for all walleye applications. In fact, I know of where there are at least 4 for sale right now..and in great shape. Owner is upgrading to...you guessed it...Tekotas....


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## Lundy

BFG said:


> Jim....
> I am also a big fan of the Daiwa SG line...and the 27's are plenty big for all walleye applications.


I've always wanted to try some Tekota's, nice looking reels that I have heard nothing but good things about.

I am a consistency freak, all of my rods and reels must match. I couldn't afford to switch over from the 27's just way, way too much cash.

The Diawas have always served my walleye needs well. Even when salmon fishing the 27's have brought in bunches of salmon with no issues at all. I did go the 47's last year for the wire line dipsy rods for a faster line takeup.


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## Hetfieldinn

I'm with Lundy. As much as I'd like to try the Tekotas, I really can't see that they'd be worth the $100 more per reel. I have eight matching SGs. That would be quite a hit to replace them. A pair of my SGs are from the early '90s. They have never been cleaned internally, and they do everything that I ask of them.

The only thing that I don't like about the SGs is that the drags get 'jerky' after a season or two. I plan to upgrade the drag washers this season.

For $84, I think that the SG27s are the bargain of the century.


----------



## BFG

You can do that yourself pretty easily Het...but if you don't want to tackle that project, I know of a guy in Ludington that'll make 'em so you never have to mess with sticky drags again...for about $15.00 per reel.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

I'm going to try the first one myself. If I end up with a shoe box full of parts I can't put back together, I'll have it done by someone that knows better.


http://www.castawaylakes.com/DragsDaiwa.html


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## Jim Stedke

I have 4 not 14, I use them mostly in tournaments, and put on whatever line the situation is likely to call for. I fun fish alot with some old Penn 310 GTIs that have wonderful drags but no line counters, but at 10'-6" per pass counting is not too much to handle. 

You guys will likely all end up getting a couple.... then a couple more.... and before you know it (or before your wife knows it), you'll have a bushel of them.

Anyone wants to try them, I'll be glad to lend them out.... with one condition.... I get to go too.

Come on Spring.


----------



## Smokeshowin

I run the Okumas, got them this year and love them. Have run the Daiwa and Penn for years and for the buck I'll use the Okumas every time. They must have worked out the bugs since the earlier years. They seem easier to reel than the 27lcs and have the line counter that my Penns dont but again counting passes is not that big of a deal. Now that being said I have only had the Okumas thru one season versus close to 15 for the daiwa and penns so longevity is yet to be tested.
Jim love this thread and check it every day thanks for all the info, and yes Cmon spring.
Chris


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## Jim Stedke

Chris, Thanks for the kind words. We're all struggling to ward off cabin fever, and talking fishin seems to help.


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## Bob Why

Jim, Thanks for this thread. Was a lot of discussion last year and so far this year is looking good also. As I've been trying to cut down on how much tackle I carry I'm going to organize my boxes as to the RR colors you listed, the Ole Pete's spoon colors from the other thread on here and the Stinger spoons from last years thread. Should start one up for Silver Streaks to.
If I can do this, maybe I won't need a crane to lift the tackle boxes from the truck to the boat. C'mon Spring.


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, We all carry 10 times more than we could possibly use in one day, but what if you get the dreaded radion call "Spotted Frog back 145' ! You can't keep it in the water" and your spotted frogs are in the truck. 

If I may answer my own dilemma, I carry about every color majic marker that was ever produced, and use "rubadubs" to make a facsimile color, as close as possible. They often don't look that impressive, but the fish don't seem to be as critical as the guys I fish with. They also are handy for touching up spoons or adding color to blades.

The added color can be removed with a quick swipe of lacquer thinner. But it needs to be quick as it will cut the clear coat on the lure. I ussually just leave it on. It wears remarkable well. 

That's one way to reduce the tonage.


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## Big Chief

I mostly troll with Dipsy's using spoons and harnesses and do pretty good. I have tried stickbaits behind them but not much luck. 1. Am I better off trying to use snap weights with these? 2. How do you know when they are "truly tuned""? I read all the time about tuning them and have tried but have not seen much difference in the action.


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## Jim Stedke

The tuning of a lure to be run behind a Dipsy is not as critical, as one that is to run behind a board. But tuning is critical to productive fishing and crutial if you expect to achieve depths as discribed in Precision Trolling.

To make sure a lure is propperly tuned after you make the adjustments (moving the line tie loop in the direction you need the lure to go), then pull the lure at trolling speed with around 6-8' of line out, and while watching the lure, pull the rod forward so as to cause a surge in the speed of the lure. If the lure dives and/or runs straight forward, it's tuned. If it wants to pull slightly left or right, give it just the slightest tweek back toward the center, and try it again. This is what we call super tuning, and it creates the truest running cranks.

Here's a copy of a reply I made to Tuning Reef Runners question a few years ago. If you can tune Reef Runners....you can tune anything.

Reef Runners have a built in horizontal hunting action. That's kinda like saying they are not going to track perfectly straight and true. A slight variation in speed will often cause the lure to dart left or right momentarily. This is a wonderful trigger for any following fish and frankly I believe it is what makes the lure so effective. 

So how do we tune a lure that has a built in horizontal hunting action???

You start with the lure beside the boat at trolling speed, with around 10' of line out. Pull the lure and watch to see if wants to hang too far left or too far right. Using needle nose pliers or the Reef Runner lure tuner, bend the line tie in the bill just slightly the opposite way the lure is running. (running left - bend right or the reverse). Keep making tiny adjustments until the lure pulls fairly straight. 

Now rip the lure forward with the rod, such as would happen if the board was coming off a wave. The lure will likely kick right or left. Pull it several times and make tiny adjustments untill you get it to kick both left and right about equally. 

The secret is to sneak up on the sweet spot, and not rack the line tie back and forth several times. 

Once again, I am not at all interested in enflaming those who believe lures should run true out of the box. I simply want to let people know the lures can be tuned, and how I go about accomplishing the task.

Good luck, good fishing and COME ON SPRING!!! 






Thanks for the question, and come on Spring.


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## Big Chief

Thanks for that definition, I can understand that one. What about running them behind Dipsy's, or is snap weight the better option?


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## Jim Stedke

If you're a Dipsy guy, I'd run them on a Dipsy just to let them fit in better. 

The stickbaits pull harder than spoons, so we only run them on the deep Dipsys (1 & 2s) and we add some length to the drop length to get them back down to the original spoon depth (15&#37; or so). 

Snap wts are a good way to inpart more radical verticle swim on a stickbait, but I've found that the fish need to be fairly high for this to be productive.

Hope this helps, & good luck.


----------



## Bob Why

Jim, In reference to color. Do you stick with the same colors for Rip Sticks (stick baits) as the Reef Runner Deep Divers? Or is there a different color preference when you are running shallower baits?


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, The only difference in color would be the result of the fact that stickbaits behind Dipsys are deeper presentations and as a result my color selections would likely be more like night colors ie, Wonderbread, Purple white tiger, Pearl Ghost, Clown, glass minnow colors or mirror image colors. The deeper the water the more this is holds true. In the islands colors would be more standard. 

I don't want to create any misconceptions here. This is not an early season method (at least not for me).This is a warm water (mid-June - August) presentation. The deeper the marks, the more likly I am to go to it.

I hope this helps, and thanks for the question.


----------



## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> The stickbaits pull harder than spoons, so we only run them on the deep Dipsys (1 & 2s) and we add some length to the drop length to get them back down to the original spoon depth (15&#37; or so).


 i think i see why im not hooking up on rip sticks behind dipsys. my thinking is the exact opposite of yours. i was stopping 11 feet short of my target depth because rip sticks max depth is 11 feet. why do you add line? is it because the rip stick pulls the dipsy down in the back not allowing it to dig/dive? wouldnt the rip stick equal that out?


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## Jim Stedke

That's it exactly, and no it doesn't come close to equalizing. The rip stick on 6' of line goes less than 2' under the Dipsy, but the added pull on the rear of the Dipsy defeats the dive sinificantly, so it's a net depth loss. Requiring added line to the Dipsy.

Our rods being close together so we can compare line angles into the water is where this became apparent. 

The some principal holds true on Jets as well.

Thanks for the question and come on spring.


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## Bob Why

Jim, I understand about the deeper water. But what about pulling Rip Sticks behind boards. Both day and night. I know that some colors are good for either, day or night, such as Bubblegum, Mooneye Minnow and a couple of others. I guess I'm just trying to get as much as possible out of this as during the season, I don't get on here as often. And when I do, I don't spend the time that I have now.


----------



## Big Chief

Thanks Jim. I was with EZ on this one. Always assumed the stickbait would be below the dipsy by 2/3 to 3/4 the length of the leader.


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, Rips behind boards (or Reef Runners up high for that matter) would be the same colors. The same would be true at night, so long as we're wotking at the same depth and in the same color water.

I'm not a color nut, I believe that depth is usually more important than color, but often having a touch of a particular color can be crutial.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Thunderstick Jrs behind a Dipsy worked well for me last year.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Yes, Little Rippers can also be the ticket, when young of the year are small.


----------



## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
Can the reef runner 700 series rip sticks be run in the early spring behind a jet then using colors that were productive from the deep divers? Or should they just be used in a long line pattern?
Thanks,
Ron


----------



## FreeByrdSteve

Buckeye Ron said:


> Jim,
> Can the reef runner 700 series rip sticks be run in the early spring behind a jet then using colors that were productive from the deep divers? Or should they just be used in a long line pattern?
> Thanks,
> Ron


CERTAINLY they CAN be run this way.

Probably a bit of a different presentation than may would choose, BUT if memory serves me correctly either last spring, or the year before this is EXACTLY how someone placed in the top 3 of the first Laek Erie Walleye Trail event of the year. The effectiveness was probably related to the Rip Stick following the jet - hard to tell where it would have been depth wise, certainly not as deep as it would have been running a spoon behind a jet, but usually the spring fish are higher fish anyways. This just goes to show that "The Fish Don't Know the Rules"...so sometimes it is worth just giving something a try - it may be the next "hot technique".

We will sometimes run the snapweights (attached with bands) ahead of ripsticks for more depth if the fish seem to prefer the action of the ripstick rather than the series 800 Reef Runner deep divers or if we just want to introduce some vertical swim because of the weight.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Ron, Steve hit it on the head. Never be bashful about trying anything that you think may work. That's how new techniques are born. 

Good luck, and come on Spring.


----------



## Buckeye Ron

Thanks Steve & Jim
Ron


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## Jim Stedke

Ron, You're very welcome and happy 60th birthday. My 60th was 1/16. Many happy and healthy returns.


----------



## Rednek

Jim Stedke said:


> That's it exactly, and no it doesn't come close to equalizing. The rip stick on 6' of line goes less than 2' under the Dipsy, but the added pull on the rear of the Dipsy defeats the dive sinificantly, so it's a net depth loss. Requiring added line to the Dipsy.





Jim Stedke said:


> The stickbaits pull harder than spoons, so we only run them on the deep Dipsys (1 & 2s) and we add some length to the drop length to get them back down to the original spoon depth (15% or so).


These 2 statements were worth the cost of admission!! Now i will be targeting the proper depth.

Thanks Jim


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## Jim Stedke

*******, Be careful .... you start paying attention too closely, and we may have to charge you double.


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim Stedke said:


> Ron, You're very welcome and happy 60th birthday. My 60th was 1/16. Many happy and healthy returns.


Thanks Jim for the BD wishes and thanks for the information you put out here for all of us.


----------



## bassmastermjb

Thanks Jim for all the info.I just started to fish Erie for walleye 4 years ago.I must say, I've learned more from you this past year than I did the previous 4 years on the water.I have a simple question for you.In 4 years My tackle box looks more like a suitcase and it needs to be toned down some.I fish mostly early evening 9pm till 2-3am. If you could have only 10 lures( & specific colors) on the boat what would they be for the 3 different seasons? Spring - Summer - Fall.......Mark


----------



## Jim Stedke

Mark,

Spring: Reef Runners:bare naked, bubble gum & pearl ghost; Rip Sticks: Mud Minnow, emerald shinner & orange peel; Rouges gold w/black back & clown; Husky Jerks: Gold & purple glass perch (if you fish water over 20' deep go with the deep versions of the Rouges & Huskys)

Summer: Reef Runners : eriedescent, purple ghost, wild thing, barbie & pearl chartruse; Rip sticks: eriedescent, bar naked, purple white tiger, rainbow trout & watermelon

Fall : Reef Runners: Redheaded wonderbread, purple ghost, mooneye minnow, chrome blue; Rip Sticks: clown, blackheaded wonderbread, pearl ghost & mooneye minnow; Rouge clown; Husky Jerk: green glass perch

This is with me thinking that you're fish shallow most of the time, and trolling. If your casting it would include more Rapalas & Bombers.

That's 2 am brain work so ... I hope I like those lists in the morning.

Thanks for the question, good luck, and come on Spring.


----------



## snake69

I pretty much have the same question as bassmaster/mark, except I will be fishing from daylight to late afternoon. Not that comfortable fishing at dark just yet..What list would you give me? Income tax is in and I'm ready to put in a few orders, one being Ol Petes spoons, which I can refer to another threadopular spoons...and the other is cranks...Thanks for your help. And this thread has an unbelieveable amount of knowledge, suggestions and tips. Love it!!


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, area has something to do with colors, I'm assuming Lorain to Fairport.

Spring. Reef Runners - bare naked, pearl chartruse, bubblegum, huckleberry & barbie. Same for Rip Sticks

Summer Reef Runners - Purple white tiger, cheap sunglasses, purple barely naked, rainbow trout & purple tiger. Same for Rip Sticks

Fall Reef Runners - pearl ghost, mooneye minnow, chrome blue, eriedescent & red headed wonderbread. Same for Rip Sticks.

These short lists force me to leave out colors that I consider to be very important like Fruit loops, Orange peel, Purlpe Prism, Trailer trash, easter egg, texas red, white perch, purple demon, pink lemonade, clown and on & on. 

And this would be a place to say again, that I don't think color is as important as depth 95&#37; of the time. 

Thanks for the question, and I hope that helps and come on spring. Thinking of these Spring colors reminds me of what I've seen hangin off the hooks.


----------



## snake69

Thanks Jim, 
That's a good start. While I'm ordering, I'll see ones that might somewhat resemble the ones listed, light colors, darker...etc and I'll just enlarge the order a tad... I do appreciate the help though. As to location, for the most part, I've fished within 10 miles of E 72nd, this year I want to expand on that a little, maybe try up around Geneva and Fairport, and also try to make it to Lorain a time or two. Thanks again....


----------



## bassmastermjb

Thanks Jim, I forgot to mention I do troll and fish only Edgewater or 72nd Street.I'd like to fish other areas, but my time is always limited and those 2 places are the closest.............Mark


----------



## Jim Stedke

Between your list and snakes, with the one mentioned at the end, you'd have a comprehensive box. But I always tell people that if they see something that is particularily appealing to them, just get it. Confidence is a very important aspect of fishing, and I never try to talk anybody ot of their go to color.


----------



## bobby

Jim,

I was thinking of trolling with 14 lb or 17 lb mono instead of 10 lb as I have set up right now. Can you or anyone else speak of reasons why I would or wouldn't want to do that? I did have a few break of on 10 lb last year, and that may be me more than the line (setting the drag improperly), but I know there are guys that run heavier line for trolling cranks and spinners. I just personally have more confidence when fishing the bigger line, and to me, I seem to catch more fish when I have confidence in my gear and set-up. Thanks.

Bobby


----------



## Jim Stedke

Bobby, Heavier line reduces lure action, and lure depth. 17# would reduce both by around 20&#37;. I'm fairly aggresive with a fish and I believe the sooner in the net, the less likely it is to get off. So I put quite a bit of heat on the them and have very few break offs. Is the line breaking at the knot, and if so do you wet the knots before drawing them tight. 

One other tip on controling line damage, if you haul rods in a rod locker line can and does get pinched in the lockers. When you get the rods out at the start of the day, check the first 15' for damage. If you feel anything out of the ordinary, cut & retie. 

I use 10 or 12# Big Game quite a bit and it's tuff stuff. And it's cheap enough to respool regularly. 

Try a couple rods with the heavier stuff and see what the fish say about it. If they don't reduce your hook-ups, have at it. Confidence is a huge factor, anything that boosts it is worthwhile.

Thanks for the question, good luck, and come on Spring.


----------



## tomb

I have another leadcore question. Does it last several years like the superbraids do?


----------



## Jim Stedke

With leadcore the outer braid can get worn and weakened but that's pretty obvious. I had some a couple years old once and the lead core got brittle and broke inside the sheath. That was obvious also. So my advise would be test it for tensile strength, and if it seems OK, use it.


----------



## BFG

Keep it out of the sun as much as possible and it'll last a LONG time....


----------



## bobby

How fast can I troll 20 jets with in line boards? In summer when we are pulling dipsys, I imagine we can run jets off small boards, but will they stand up to 2.5-3.0 mph? I suppose we can just run 6 dipsy divers, but might opt for jets at times.

Thanks.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Bobby, 20 Jets can be trolled behind in-line boards at higher speeds, even up to 3.5 or more. 

Thanks for the question, and good luck.


----------



## bobby

Thanks, Jim. One more question, someone told me you can only pull up to 20 jets behind small boards because the pull of 30's and 40's is too much. True or False?

This weather is killing me! C'mon spring!


----------



## K gonefishin

Jim, probably more in the "back in the day" but have you ever ran any of the Mann's 20, 25 or 30+ I have a few and haven't really gotten them wet to much but I do have some good colors. Have you ran them and have you had any luck. 

Thanks

Kevin


----------



## bassmastermjb

Jim,I'm going to try and get out and fish the daylight hours a couple times this year.My question is : If I am marking fish at 40' assuming they are walleye,what depth should my baits be running? Also, does the amount of sun or clouds change things? Please reply............Mark


----------



## Fishin Musician

Jim, 
thanks for doing this. You have alot of years learning this stuff to be sharing with strangers. I enjoyed meeting you at the boat show. 

Thanks again,
Tim 

Bushpusher on 68


----------



## Jim Stedke

Bobby, 30 & 40 Jets do fine behind in-lines.


----------



## bobby

Thanks for answering all my questions. You and the other guys here really quickened up my learning curve last year. Thanks again!


----------



## Jim Stedke

Kevin, Yes I have a box of Stretch 20s. They seem to be most productive early and late in the season. They behave nicely and kinda fit between the Rip Sticks and Reef Runners (action wise). I don't think I used them once last year. But I can think of a couple days that I should have. 

Thanks for the question, and good luck.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Fishin Musician, It's a pleasure to share with these fine folks, and we've got the rest of Feb & most of March to endure. Talkin fishin seems to help, but I may need to get my string stretched before Erie opens up. 

At least we're beyond the midpoint. 

Thanks for the kind works, and good luck.


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## ezbite

ive been hearing about "glow beads" for crawler harnesses and today i saw a bunch in jann's netcraft. should i pick some up and try? if so how many do you use per harness? do they go with a particular blade or bead color pattern? thanks.


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## Bob Why

EZ, A guy once told me that fished out of the Cleveland area that he tied all his harnesses using a single glow bead just ahead of the hook.


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## Jim Stedke

EZ, I agree that you don't want to overdo the glow. My tendency is to either put the glow on ahead of the top hook or up above the top spinner. 

Glow on cranks or harnessses seems to work best for me when I use it sparingly.


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## bobby

I remember reading that when Mark Brumbaugh would troll at night he would use some kind of "glow gel" that emitted light and maybe scent as well. He said that the fish would bite as the glow started to wear off but still shown enough under water. Don't know what that's worth, but thought it might be worth consideration.


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## Jim Stedke

Take a glow lure in a dark room and leave it there until it's about done glowing. There's a point at which you can't see the glow when looking directly at it, but if you look off to the side, your peripheral vision always you to pick up the glow. That's how much glow I want to see on my lures at night. I purposly keep the flashlight off of them because I don't want to light them up.

Try this, I think you'll like the results.

Thanks, good luck & come on Spring.


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## tomb

Jim & BFG : Thanks for the leadcore answer

Jim: That's a cool fact on the glow lures, weird how that works.

EZ: I have some cool glow harnesses I bought on a trip to lake Chatauqua. I'll post pics for you later.


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## bassmastermjb

The lists of lures will be very helpful this year for me.One thing I noticed is jointed lures do not seem to be on anyones favorite list.Why is this?........Mark

PS...Jim, could you answer my question on reply #238. Thanks


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## Jim Stedke

answer to question in reply 238 
Mark, Man, I don't know how I missed that one.
I attempt to position lures 2 - 5' above the fish. But I will add that many fisherman work with fishfinders that are not calibrated to adjust for the depth that the transducer is below the surface of the water (usually around 2'), so their fishfinder is reading fish 2' shallower than they really are. Those guys have a built in 2' discrepancy that makes this adjustment for them.
And then too how do we know that the fish we are marking haven't moved slighly away from the approaching boat, and repositioned a few feet lower than they originally were? Or that the highest and most active fish are not moving horizontally out of the cone, and we aren't marking them at all.

All this leads to : I'd rather be 6' above the fish than 6" below them. And I believe few fishermen run shallow lures as much as they should. We often set-up with a shallow lure on the outside, and leave it there for an hour or so before pulling it. Also if the bite slows down, we'll put out a shallow lure to try and be sure they didn't come up high. 
Sun or cloud and the change from one to the other can have an effect on color. My first inclination is to go to chrome or prism flash colors when the sun pops out, or to duller (possible darker) painted lures when clouds roll in. 
I appologize for missing the post and thanks for pointing it out. These were both good questions.
Good luck and come on Spring.


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## ezbite

when you tie crawler harnesses, do you use plastic or glass beads and whats the difference? how long are you leaders off bottom bouncers?


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## Jim Stedke

Mark, Jointed lures? Jointed lures tangle more easily than non-jointed, and even though I've run them in the past, I have personally gotten away from them on Erie because they have failed to produce.

The one place where I've used them with success is Indian Lake on the saugeyes. Jointed Shad Raps have produced for me there. 

Thanks for the questions, and good luck.


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## Jim Stedke

EZ, My harnesses are short (11" or so) and made to be run behind Dipsys or Jets with a leader.

I like glass beads because of better reflection & refraction of light and the probability of adding some rattle, but I've stopped trying to use glass because it wears the mono and leads to break-offs. So it's faceted plastic for me, most of the time. But I'm likely to use smooth as well.

Thanks for the question and come on Spring.


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## bassmastermjb

Thanks Jim, the tackle box just got a little lighter.............Mark


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## ErieAngler

Jim,

When would you say would be the prime time to start targeting the Canadian Reefs between Middle Sister and Middle Island? I love to fish Canada, but usually wait until mid June. Is this too late? Am I missing out on a key timeframe. Just curious. I've fished those waters for 15 years but have always done so when the weather starts to warm up and everyone in the western basis is fishing the flats just south of the boarder. Do you think there is a good spawn on this reef complex in the spring? I've always thought about trying it but cant make myself make that run when all you have to do is pull out of the breakwall between Besse and Toledo.


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## Jim Stedke

ErieAngler, There is definatly a spawn that occurs on the Canadian Reefs. I recall a spawn study that included those areas. The area was fished by many high finishers in the PWT in those years when it was held on S Bass in April. And I know there have been several tournaments won on the north & east sides of Pelee in May.

We used to fish Canadian waters all summer to get away from the crowds, before the zebra mussles, but with all the rigamaroll involved in it now (passports & check-ins and homeland security hastles) we've gotten away from it. 

I have been made aware of the fact that the shallow reef fishing is coming back, and that's great news. We spent many happy hours over the line, and frankly I wish it would be as simple as it used to be. We'd be keepin you company.

Get your stuff together and be ready to be hastled, but enjoy the fishing. 

Thanks for the question, good luck & come on Spring.


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## BFG

Jim, 

I've read on this and other forums where guys will say that once walleyes reach 5-6 years old, they get into a migration cycle that takes them out of the Western Basin loop. Follow up statements by others agreed with this theory, hence why occasionally I'll see someone post...

"we need another good hatch soon, as the 2003 fish will not be making the trip to the West end of the lake in the future..."

Is this true?? I don't understand that line of thinking in the least bit, but my wife tells me that I'm rarely right about anything....so take that for what it's worth. 

BTW..I always enjoyed your posts and reports on GLA...


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## Jim Stedke

BFG, I'm not aware of that "out of the western basin loop" line of thinking. I assume that like most migrating fish, they'll return to where they were born, until they die. 

It does seem to me that the larger the fish the sooner it returns east after spawning, but tell your wife, we may both be wrong but at least you found someone to agree with you.

If you want to see what the experts say, got to http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/index.php?board=1.0
see what the Ohio Sea Grant guys & gals say.

Thanks for the question and come on Spring.


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## Bob Why

Jim, Do you remove the split rings from the eye tie of your Reef Runners?
If you do, Why? And if not, Why? I've seen in magizines or articles where some do and some don't. I have them both ways and they both catch fish.
Just wondering if one is better than the other. Thanks.


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, I leave the split rings on. It's just my way of doing it, and I find no fault with anyone who wants to take them off. I run a small (5/8ths inch) round bottom cross lock snap (no swivel) feeling that a well tuned lure will not twist the line. So changing a lure is quick and easy.
I do once in a while put on a larger split ring and larger hooks when I want to reduce action. Mostly in cold water.

Thanks for the question, good luck with the harness seminar, and come on Spring.


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## Jim Stedke

Here's a post from a thread on another site:
Jim, Since we can't launch our boats and go fishing yet, would you care to share some early season wisdom? I'm talking about the time from ice out to the end of the spawn, probably mid April. Hopefully we can get a discussion going on lures, presentations etc.


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## Jim Stedke

My reply:
Early Spring tactics, to me fall into 4 catagories :
1) trolling cranks up high to scattered marks
2) worn harnesses to cold front fished scattered on the bottom
3) jigging to concentrations of prespawn fish within 4' of the bottom. (Ice fishing out of a boat)
4) The popular hair jigs or blade baits near shore or on top of the reefs.
My favorite method is running the cranks to the high marks, and I think that's what you are wanting to discuss so, here goes.

My favoorite lures are all the Reef Runners, Rouges (deep & shallow)and Husky Jerks (deep and shallow). Typical good colors are Eriedescent, Bubble Gum, Clown, Rainbow Trout, and in dirtier water Mud Minnow & red and yellows. 

Most guys think that speeds need to be painfully slow (0.5 - 1.2), but I seldom fish under 1.5. And would be more likely in the 1.7 - 2.1 range. But speed is a confidence thing and really I believe you can catch theses fish at whatever speed you want to run. It is the kind of fishing that usually tries your patience. Seldom do you get a high number of hits. But the size can be truely incredible, and it is well worth the wait.

Area wise I'l probably be within 2 miles of the line connecting B, C, D & E cans. But the area a mile or 2 west of Rattle Snake or Green can be good as well.

I ordinarily start out with mono on 1 side & a fine superbraid on the other. The superbraids are troublesome, but they can get you significantly more bites on certain days. If I can catch on mono, I'm going to.

These are transiant fish and they won't stay put for anyone. When you do good at the same spot on the next day, it's a diferent bunch of fish. 

Every year there is a 3 day period when the hens go in close and are catchable in 8 - 15' of water (even in the daytime), if the water has some color (which it usually does).

This is some of the very best big fish fishing that there is on Erie, but safty needs to be stressed as a mishap in the 40 degree water will likely end in trajedy. Reliable equipment is an absolute must.

Man, I can't wait. 

Thanks for the post, and COME ON SPRING!!!


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## snake69

Jim,
As a rookie on Erie, I alway hear about these "cans", B can, C can etc. Since I have fished primarily from E 72nd and would like to expand my horizons this year, just where are these cans located? I'm guessing here, but I suspect they are much farther West. I also notice you were talking in very shallow water, 8-10 ft. Haven't seen water that shallow in my 8-10 trips to Erie. A brief response is appreciated. Thanks in advance....


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## Jim Stedke

The cans are those that demark the fireing zone off Camp Perry. They enclose the spawning reefs off Davis Besse (in other words they are just west of Port Clinton in th Locust Point - Turtle Creek area) 
The shallow water is right on top of some of the better reefs. And by the way there is one (Crib Reef) that can hurt you, so be aware.


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## Hetfieldinn

Here is a map of the 'cans', courtesy of Commadore 64


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## jshbuckeye

Great info as always. Question is do you use different size dipsies for crawlers verses the minnow baits? and which sizes


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## Jim Stedke

I always run size 1 Dipsys with the ring. That's partly because I fish quite a bit in the central basin. If I were running Dipsys moat of the time in the western basin I might use only size 0 with the rings on. 

Dipsys are a little complicated and gaining confidence in 1 size took me long enough that I'm not in a hurry to start over.

I run with the rings because thay provide more side pressure and wider seperation when running multiple Dipsys.


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## Bob Why

Jim, Glad to see the season question asked. I was going to ask you to break down the colors by Spring, Summer and Fall. And which colors are good all year? Also I noticed that you don't list any chromes or golds in your list, other than clown for early season. Or when you mention Eriedescent and Rainbow Trout are you including all the finishes? Thanks.


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, Colors in the Spring are a funcyion of water color...ie. visability of 1 ft or less mud minnow or texas red (dark lures), vis. 1-2' brite painted lures like Bubblegum. Emerald Shinner, Clown, Fire Tiger or Wild Thing, 2-3' natural painted colors like Eriedescent, Perch, Rainbow Trout or Grey Ghost, more than 3' the metalics like Chrome w/ Black Back, Cheap Sunglasses, Rebel Queeen, Easter Egg, Fruit Loops or Orange Juice. The new colors you'll want to make sure you have are Bare Naked, Pearl Ghost & Purple Barly Naked.These have an internal prism type color that work well in various conditions (Bubblegum can catch in various conditions as well).

Summer colors Confusion, Watermelon, Metalic or Gold Rainbow Trout, Fire Tiger, Pink Lemonade, Purple White Tiger, Huckleberry, Chrome or Gold with a black back, gold prism flash orange belly blue back.

Fall Blue Chrome, Barbie, Mooneye Minnow, all the Wonderbreads, Pink Squirrel, Silver Bullet, Copperhead, Purple Glow painted.

The best universal colors are the nakeds, Bubble Gum, Huckleberry and Purple Huckleberry, White Tiger & Purple White Tiger.

The chrome do best in sun and/or clear water, as do the prism colors (except for bare naked, which works all the time. 

I'm sure I missed some good ones but that's what come out this time.

Hope this helps, and good luck.


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## Bob Why

Thanks, Jim. Just wanted some clarification as I know the Chromes and Golds have worked well for me in the spring. Last year my partner was catching them on Rainbow Trout and I wasn't getting half of the hits he was. Switched to a Metalic Rainbow Trout as I didn't have the regular and started keeping up with him. Now another question. What is your opinion on the red hooks? I've switched a lot of my cranks to red hooks on the front. At times I believe it does improve my strike/catch rate. Also at one time didn't Reef Runners come with size 2 hooks? Seems like they are all size 4 now. Or was that just on certain colors?


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, No they never came with 2s but they did have a kahlie stlye hook for a while that looked bigger. 

When Rapala bought VMC, Scott's outbarb hooks were made unpractical for him to purchase. So he went looking for a new hook supplier, and thus the barbarian, and the aforementioned kahlie style. 

Red Hooks, I've put many red hooks on myself, and I've never noticed that they were a big difference maker either way.

The chrome vs painted lures of the same color is light penetration issue to me. More light more chrome (or gold). I won an April 1st tournament on chrome rainbow trout the first year it was out, but the water was fairly clean, and honestly I don't think it's been that clean since then. 

Thanks for the questions, & come on Spring.


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## snake69

Getting ready to put in a very large spoon order from Olpetes tackle. Curious what size I should order. I see my M. Stingers are like 3 and 5/8. Should I stick with that or downsize one?


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## fishingguy

I use the 2 3/8 early, mid May till mid june or so. Than go large and speed up when the trash start to bite.


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## Jim Stedke

snake69 said:


> Getting ready to put in a very large spoon order from Olpetes tackle. Curious what size I should order. I see my M. Stingers are like 3 and 5/8. Should I stick with that or downsize one?


 The small Scorpions 2.25" are a standard early, but as fishingguy says If you're in the Lorain area or further west (where trash fish becomes a big problem), you'll want the 3.75" size later on. 

I do not mean to imply that you should order those exact sizes but rather something in that size range. 

Most of the guys have both sizes to work with. I'd go with more small ones now, after all you'll probably buy more later on, and you can get the favor of the week, when the time comes.

Good luck, and come on Spring.


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## Lundy

I would like to thank Jim for another great, very informative, discussion that has helped us all get through the winter a little easier.

I in no way am saying this discussion has run it's course and should end, quite the contrary. I hope it continues on until at least the first day I can launch my boat on Erie. I just hope that day is coming soon!!!! 

A big thanks to Jim and to everyone that has contributed to this.


Kim


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## Jim Stedke

Kim, I'm happy to try and help. The month of Feb is 3/4ths gone, but we still have to survive March (the month my grandpa said was like a model T Ford ... it has just enough spring in it to make your a$$ tired). 

I too hope it keeps going, at least until the boats get wet. 

Again, anyone can ask, and anyone can answer. I haven't yet, but I may end up asking a question myself. I have much respect and admiration for many who frequent this site. 

Thanks for the kind words and Come on Spring.


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## Got One

Jim, I have'nt heard you talk much about using a downrigger for walleyes. What is the average lead back off the ball for a harness or any other bait you may use, as a starting norm. Thanks, Steve,


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## Jim Stedke

Steve, I'm not a big fan of riggers for walleyes. The way we fish Dipsys, riggers interfere. We leave the riggers in the dock box unless we're running a steelhead trip.
But I know riggers do produce walleyes. And I know some guys have success with short leads, but if I were going to run a harness behind a rigger, I'd put it at least 50' back, to compensate for the ball shyness of the walleyes.
Perhaps someone how uses them for walleyes can add to the discussion.
Thanks for the question and come on Spring.


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## Lundy

I have had good success using downriggers for walleye.

I normally only use then when fishing in water depth over 40' when the fish are hugging the bottom.

Walleye do seem to be much, much, more ball shy that the steel head and salmon where leads as short as 5-10' are very common setups.

My best success has always come from setting up to have my lure presentation running 10' below my downrigger weights. I do this by using a lead on a crank bait that allows the lures to dive below the ball. It could be a 25-50 lead depending on the bait. The one I have used the most is to put an inline 2, 3, 4 oz weight ahead of a harness or even a spoon and then let out once again 25' -50' of line. This keeps the lure well below the ball depth and work extremely well for precise depth control. The biggest advantage if your ability to quickly and easily adjust your depth. Just raise or lower your downrigger slightly to change your lure depth. Many times using a deep diving crank I have gradually increased by depth a couple feet at at time until the crank starts digging bottom and then raised it from there to the depth where I wanted the lure actually running. No guess work, I knew exactly where it was running and it was very easy to repeat after each fish.

I have caught many walleye with 40-50' leads with stingers just straight back, but that has worked primarily since the 03 fish have come into the fishery. I don't you can find many presentations that won't work for those guys.


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## Jim Stedke

Kim, What sort of set-up do you have that allows you to read the lure ticking the bottom through the ball.


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## Bob4246

Jim, I cut my teeth trolling for Lake Michigan salmon. If Lundy is using rubber bands for releases, the lure ticking the bottom would be transmitted to the rod tip. Light biting walleyes would aslo be detected by closely watching the rod tips.


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, I figured it had to be something like that. We've used snubbers between the ball and the release. When you load the rod, you pull the snubber more verticle. When a fish hits the snubber goes more horizontal, and this maximizes the impact on the rod (pulls the tip down more). 

Thanks for stepping in and contributing. Come on Spring.


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## BFG

While the numbers of walleyes off the riggers are lower than from other presentations, it seems that we often take the largest fish of the day off the rigger rod. 

We set it to run within a foot of the bottom, and check the lure (usually a spoon, but sometimes a shallow crank) every 15 minutes or so for zebras, especially if we've doing a lot of turning. Typical lead length is 25-35', depending on water clarity. My buddy uses Black's releases, and we half-hitch a rubber band to go into the release to detect small fish (rod tip will bob a bit). 

I know the fella that makes the Ridgeback Rattler downrigger weights, and his 7# version is perfect for walleye fishing. Not trying spam Chips product, but they work very well. If I recall, he runs crawler harnesses on short leads (<10') behind the RR. 

If I could catch 'em all day long on the riggers with the same frequency as divers, leadcore, and mini-discs...I wouldn't own $1500.00 worth of the other stuff...but dang it...


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## Lundy

Very similar,

I have 18" of 130lb mono from the ball to the pad style release. I then use rubber bands in the pinch pad. It is really easy to see bottom contact, lure action, especially with cranks, or small fish.

This is with using braid and a leader, not mono.


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## Jim Stedke

Yep, end result would be nearly identical. Thanks, Maybe you can give me a lesson some day.


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## BFG

> I have 18" of 130lb mono from the ball to the pad style release. I then use rubber bands in the pinch pad. It is really easy to see bottom contact, lure action, especially with cranks, or small fish.


To also note that this system also gives you the exact lead length every single time when using a non-linecounter levelwind like a Penn 209 or equivalent. That's one thing that drives me NUTS about several of my friends...

"How far back was this?"

"I dunno....lemme see....yeah, 'bout there...."


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## Jim Stedke

We used little size 10 rubber bands to mark drop lengths for boards and Dipsys before we bought line counter reels. 

Kinda hard to to remember where you were once you started adjusting. 

But you've got to remember to look before you crank with a line counter also.

Come on Spring.


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## Got One

Thanks for the replies on the downrigger Question. I've done better on short leads of 18-25 ft back off the ball. I just wondered what everyone else has had success with. The cannon positive ion polarity was another reason I brought it up. Like I said Just wondering......


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## Lundy

Got One said:


> The cannon positive ion polarity was another reason I brought it up. Like I said Just wondering......


That's a subject that I sure haven't got a handle on for sure.

I have two Cannon mag 10's with the Positive Ion Control, and two Big Jon captains packs. I run these on a regular basis on Both Erie and lake Ontario. One Erie I seldom use more than one set at a time, sometimes I use the Cannons sometimes I use the Big Jons. On Lake Ontario I often have all 4 mounted. I don't know that I have ever been able to distingish any catch differnce with one set over the other.

Does positive Ion control help, I don't really know. If you read all of the data available about the electric charges and attraction qualities for different species, specifically salmon and the black box it sure sounds like science and not opinion.


http://www.protroll.com/books/?id=5&p_id=all 


I do know that a metal boat moving through water does create an electrical field. How well a boat is setup and their electrical system isolated and grounded can create big differences in the generated electrical field. If your boat creates the wrong field it repels fish. This is one answer that many use to explain a boat not catching any or near as many salmon, as their buddies in the same area with the same pattern.

The generated electrical field is also used to explain wire line dipsy's out performing braid for salmon. It is widely known that salmon, sharks and many other species can detect minute electrical fields, do walleye have similar abilities and use it in any way, I don't have a clue.


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## Jim Stedke

Walleyes evolved with eyes that have more rods than cones (thus the name). This gives them the ability to see shapes in low light conditions while limiting their ability to see colors. 

Since this is their primary evolutionary advantage, and few species have more than one, I would guess that they have a limited abiluty to sense positive ions. 

That would be a good one for sea grant site.


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## snake69

I recall just recently reading a story in In Fisherman where they were talking about using jigs with a little electric emitting contraption on it. The story did mention how fish can detect even the littlest bit of electricity. I can not think of the name of this, but have since seen ads for it several times. 
Well, I think I spent 15 minutes looking thru my favorites, because yes, I thought about ordering some of these. Maybe it will answer the "do walleye sense low amounts of electricity" question, as I believe these are for targeting walleye also. Here it is http://www.protroll.com/
Let me know your thoughts here people...


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## fishingguy

Snake, I think the e chip thing ranks right up there with the famous popiel's pocket fisherman. Designed to electronically remove some very thin green slabs holding tight to cover in the bottom of my pocket. I think I will let other's field test this one!


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## Bob Why

fishingguy, I agree with you. I think they were designed to catch fisherman more than fish.


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## Lundy

fishingguy said:


> Snake, I think the e chip thing ranks right up there with the famous popiel's pocket fisherman. QUOTE]
> 
> Maybe........maybe not. I'm still not 100% sold however the last two years on lake Ontario the e-chip flashers out fished the identical flashers fished at the same time, without the e-chips. The salmon had a preference for some reason, blind luck, maybe, just coincidence, possibly. Will I always have some in the water when salmon fishing, absolutely.
> 
> The ability for fish to detect and be attracted to electrical fields is not opinion, it is fact that has been widely known and utilized for a long, long time. How and if it applies or will ever apply to recreational fishing is relatively new and only time will tell if any significant changes are in our fishing futures.
> 
> Testing moves to year 3 this August


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## Fishers of Men

I'll bettcha it works in the salt water.


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## BlueMax

Jim,
You mentioned at the boat show seminar that you glue your dipsey rings. What type of adhesive are you using that works? I have tried two different types with no luck. (gorilla glue and seals all) It is not vital to have the rings but they should give the diver a more wider range of characteristics with VS without the ring.
Thanks in advance,
Gene


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## Jim Stedke

Shoegoo a vinyl adhesive is the best we've found. But it requires some dry / cure time. Rough or dull both surfaces first to give the glue some tooth.

The rings do not effect depth that much do add in horizontal seperation.


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## Lundy

The Dipsy and math.

I was inspired by your comment Jim on more spread with the rings. I had never really thought about that before.

To determine the actual movement for a dispsy away from the boat in each setting and with or without a ring is basic math (that my grand daughter taught me )

To find the distance of any one side of triangle we just need to know the dimensions of two sides. A2 x B2 = C2 We know the depth and the line out.

If we use an example depth of 30' we can apply 30 to A, we know to achieve 30' on a # 1 without ring, setting we need to let out 58', the C side of the triangle. Do the math and the dipsy moves away from the boat at those settings, 49 ft

If we do the same with a #1 setting with a ring, 30 ft deep, 50' line out, we find that it would move from the boat 40'

If you do the math for all three settings with and without rings, it actually shows that the dipsy has a greater spread between each setting and moves further from the boat when fished without the rings.

This math assumes that the lines are straight on each side to the triangle. Two of them are, the depth (A) and distance from boat (B). The hypotenuse (C) line out will have some curve based upon line drag, I don't know how much of a difference that would make in the results. Need someone with better math skills than me to handle that one. I would think the deeper you go the more line resistance may impact actual results versus straight line math

Without ring, 30' deep, distance from boat, #1 = 49' #2 =62', #3 = 78'

With ring, 30 deep, distance from boat, #1 = 40', #2 = 48', #3 = 59'


Left number shows depth without "O" Ring.
Right number shows depth with "O" Ring.
Base Plate Setting
Amount of "line out," in feet, in order to reach desired trolling depth. 
Desired Depth


0	1	2	3
10	16/14	20/17	24/20	30/24
15 21/18	25/22	30/25	35/28
20	31/27	35/30	41/34	50/40
25	39/34	46/40	55/46	67/53
30	50/43	58/50	69/57	84/67
35	63/55	73/63	88/73	106/85
40	74/64 88/76	105/87	129/103
45	89/77	104/90	144/102	150/120
50	106/92	123/107	147/122	178/142
60	138/120	168/140 
70	175/150


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## Hetfieldinn

I need an aspirin


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## Jim Stedke

Lundy, I'm not trying to be contrary, but on water experience, has shown me that the rings do cause the Dipsys to flare out further. You can see it in how far apart the lines are from the rod tip to the water.
(I'm talking about 4 #1 Dipsys per side, set at 1, 2, 3 & 4.)
Try it yourself, one side w/ rings & one side w/o. No waves or wind to cause crabbing, or currents to mess things up. It's pretty obvious.

I'm not speaking of distance from the boat, but rather horizontal distance between the Dipsys. Or the distance from the track of 1 Dipsy to an other.

Or am I missing something.


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## snake69

Quote:
Snake, I think the e chip thing ranks right up there with the famous popiel's pocket fisherman. *Designed to electronically remove some very thin green slabs holding tight to cover in the bottom of my pocket.* I think I will let other's field test this one!

That has to be one of the funniest comebacks I've heard in awhile. EZ and Het are not going to be happy with you. You updid 'em!


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## Big Joshy

it seems to me that a dipsey with a ring pulls quite a bit more, thus eliminating the line bow which may cause a dipsy without a ring to hang back more behind the boat than one with a ring. The triangle math only works based on straight lines and if a 10 lb downrigger ball as as we know quite a bit of swayback I can only imagine that the line drag when using a dipsey without a ring vs with a ring makes a big difference.


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## Hetfieldinn

E chips are strong medicine up on Ontario. I doubt that you'd find a single charter captain up there that doesn't run multiple E chip equipped spoons or flashers, or both, at any given time.


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## fishingguy

Where the heck is Commodore on this one. I'm sure he could shed some light on the subject, allbeit anacedotal.


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## Lundy

Jim,

That is what I was trying to illustrate. In a real world application, due to the amount of line out and the resistance and subsequent bow in that line the straight line math will be affected by some unknown factor.

When doing this we have been supplied to knowns, the depth and line out. If the charts (actually 30', with 69 ft out, #2 setting, no ring) are correct from Luhr Jensen then the math results should be somewhat close. For the real results to vary a bunch from the math the charts and supplied information can not be correct. 

If using only straight line math the dipsys with out the rings would result in a larger spread between settings. I realize this is not what you have visually witnessed when doing this. I'm guessing for the actual to vary the charts are not correct.


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## Jim Stedke

Lundy, Where did your depth data come from? I'm do not doubt your calcs, and just wonder what the heck is going on.

I'm too technical to just blow this off.


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## Lundy

I wish spring would get here!

I really hate it when I have so much time that I start think about why something actually does something 

I now have this crap straight in my mind and realize whats wrong with the math.

All of the math and resulting spreads etc, assumes a right angle to the boat. In real world it can not be and will not be at a right angle. The angle will vary on degree of drag of the line and the pull the dipsy itself creates.

This would result in a dipsy with ring being closer to a right angle to the boat than a dipsy without ring, thus creating more horizontal separation just as experienced in real application. The dipsy without ring lags farther behind reducing the right angle to boat.

All of the math is correct but the angle to the boat changes affecting horizontal spread with each degree of reduction of being at a right angle.

If you held a triangles out the side of the boat at a right angle with the math we did the distances and spreads would match with the charts. However if you turn all of those same triangles towards the back of the boat at 45 degrees the horizontal spread changes.

Jim,

I knew what you were saying was correct, I couldn't figure out why, until now


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## Jim Stedke

Lundy, LOL I glad you knew I was right, because you had me second guessing myself, and trying to figure out how the reverse could be possible.


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## Bob Why

Jim, Trying to keep this going. Do you make any alterations to your cranks and/or spoons? Anything at all that you think may give you an advantage.


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, I have added larger hooks to the smaller lures when big fish want small lures or red hooks when it seems appropriate; Renowski shallow divers-the guys in NY take off the front hook and bend the line tie down closer to the bill, and then add 1/2 a crawler to the belly hook, it makes the lure have a very snakey motion in the water @ 1.8mph; I've added a dressed treble to the rear of stick baits in the spring; or piece of worm on a trolled lure any time of year when the bite is tuff; I carry a large assortment of Majic Markers for adding a stripe, spot, green eye, red throat, red bill or what ever to a lure; and now the BIG ONE... I'm a nut on tuning, I never set a lure without checking it first. 

Heres some things I do to Jets to make them tunable and less likely to cause trouble (tangle). First take out the snap and use a counter sink bit or a just a large drill bit to bevel the edges of the hole where the snap goes. This easing of the sharp corner prevents the snap from hanging up and stoppping the jet from diving. Next replace the snap with a connecting link http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/connecting-links/335505.aspx#. This allows for simple tuning, and true tracking jets don't tangle as often. 

Hope this helps, I appreciate the question, Come on Spring.


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## BFG

> E chips are strong medicine up on Ontario. I doubt that you'd find a single charter captain up there that doesn't run multiple E chip equipped spoons or flashers, or both, at any given time.


You would also have a hard time finding a charter captain over there that wasn't GIVEN a bunch of E-chip stuff to run....and for what it's worth..I think it's a bunch of hullaballoo...but that's just my take. When basic physics principles are applied...it doesn't make sense. It also doesn't mean those lures do not catch fish....but the E-chip stuff has to be some of the most spammed tackle out there....and I'm sure Het and others have seen the discussions regarding the ins/outs of the product on GLA and other places. 


Back to walleyes...

Jim...what style of hair-jig do you prefer and why? Plenty of guys use the pancake-shaped versions, while others use football-types, or just plain 'ole round heads. 

Exactly what is the hair-jig imitating????


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## cw261

Jim-

Is the size 14 style B the correct connecting link from Janns? One more thing to add to my order.


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## Guest

Large split rings work too. (For te jets)


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## Jim Stedke

The jigs I get neat Davis Besse are River style head with a stinger attached. Similar to Ole Pete's. 

I think it's something they can see, and that will fit in their mouth. I don't know what they're imitating any more than the fish do, but we neither one care.


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## beatsworkin

I've got a headache too. I always thought you guys ran bigger boats on Erie because of the conditions. In reality it is to hold all the tackle!! I can see it now, rod holders with protracter upgrades. Radios will buzz with lat/lon and tangent numbers. All kidding aside it has been a pleasure to read all this info, wish we had a way to print out the whole thread with 1 click.


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## Jim Stedke

cw261, Yes, the one with the larger loop on one end.


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## Jim Stedke

Tubuzz2, I can see that they'd work fine.


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## Jim Stedke

beatsworkin, There's a Ray Marine radio out now that has he ability to show lat/long of the guy on the other end.


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## beatsworkin

I believe it Jim, pretty soon they will tell you if you are holding your toungue wrong and which day you should have been at the lake before you even get there!


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## Jim Stedke

I'm going to kick it back ttt, then we'll drift off into the sunset.


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## cw261

My jet 30 and 40's have two holes for the leader to the bait - which is normally used, the one closer to the main line connection or the one further back? I tried checking the Lurh Jensen site, but the link to the jet diver tech sheet does not work.


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## Jim Stedke

We use the one to the rear to increase the potential for the Jet to come to the surface after a hook-up. It gives the hooked fish more leverage against the diver. 

Thanks for the question and come on Spring.


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## Tommybouy

Hi Jim!

My Offshore Boards have been abused and need replaced. New Offshore boards are one of my bday gifts. Ive seen tattle flags used on tv shows and read about tattle flags. My hesitation is I can say with conviction; I have never felt I have misjudged a board that had a small gamefish long enough causing me to miss on other opportunities. I am an adamant board watcher and have been told I can be a boring conversation b/c I zone on the boards for extended periods of time . Ive used Wille's. Mr. Walleye & Offshore and haven't felt like a tattle flag is necessary but there aren't too many products Offshore manufactures that are useless.

I would like to know if you have used the Tattle Flags? if so or not; your opinion? Thank you in advance!


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## Jim Stedke

Tattle flags are most advantagous for slow trolling with live bait (mainly harnesses) and detecting smaller fish or weeds. If you don't have those situations & problems, then I think you'd be fine w/o them.

If you fish any big water or use any superbraid lines, you'd might want to think about the snapper releases. They simply can not come off the line. So Jets, heavy snap wts. even small Dipsys can be run behind the boards w/o having to wrap the releases.

Try storing your boards in some sort of pouch (Amish Outfitters makes a nice one). That seems to prevent much of the dings and dents that destroy the boards.

Hope this helps, good luck and come on Spring.


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## Bob Why

Jim, I have seen more and more guys going to the Tattle Tell Flags. I bought one really cheap at the time and was going to try to make my own by copying it. Couldn't find the right wire or springs. So my other 3 are still standard. I know the tattle flags help when a big fish just mouths the bait and swims with it. If someone doesn't know how to read the boards they will miss that bite without the tattle flags. Sometimes even with them.


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## jshbuckeye

After bob whys response i take it the tattle flag is not the standard lockin the upright position flag that comes with the boards


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, Good point. I did not mean to imply that the Tattle Flags were not beneficial, but Tommybouy's "My hesitation is I can say with conviction; I have never felt I have misjudged a board that had a small gamefish long enough causing me to miss on other opportunities." made he think he had enough experience to get along w/o them. 

The less experience one has the more important they are.


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## Jim Stedke

jshbuckeye, Correct. They are an add on. The flag is setup in such a way that when a fish adds drag to the line, the flag goes down. Go to the Offshore site they are pictured there


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## harle96

This is not a question, just a story about the first time I used in-lines. I had did my homework on them no different than everyone on here and decided to try it. I was skeptical and hated jets already so it started out unfair. 

I let her out out the back free spooling so I did not tangle the other lines, things seemed to be in order.

It started tailing right thought all was good. put it in the rod holder and watched it drift back to the center within a few minutes. My Brother says take that thing offf already it's not tracking right. I dragged it for another 15 minutes thinking that my jet flipped and wanting to give it a fair chance. I also did not want to reel that thing in 200 feet for nothing.

So I finally decided to reel it it and the whole time thinking this sucks...I hate jets, they never let up...they will dive until they get to the boat. Got the flag to the boat, unhooked it had another 100 feet to go hating it, soon the jet broke the water and to my surprise a healthy fat 6 lber on the line. I looked at my brother and shrugged my shoulders, I guess that is why it did not track right. 

You have to pay attention. I also had a tattle flag on. I'm going to try setting the drag really light on the boards this year.


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## ezbite

im not sure if someone already asked this or not. i didnt see it anywhere, when you tie crawler harnesses do you always go with the same blades on the harness or have you mixed them. like a small colorado in front a willow on the same harness, i know both have different profiles, so why not?


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## silver shad

Jim whats better to run in-lines with braid or mono.


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## Jim Stedke

Another one of those "that depends" questions....

Superbraids are great for telegraphing what's going on at the lure (weed pick ups are obvious), better ability to get a hook in at slow harness speeds, more depth and more action on cranks.

Mono is better for absorbing violant head shakes, giving a less experienced angler a chance to land that big fish, working directly from the dive curves, letting a neutral fish play with a lure without killing the action.

I run longer softer rods for the superbraids, and back the drags off. The easiest way to discribe the situation is, It should take twice as long to bring a fish to the boat with any superbraid as it would with mono. If the fish is shaking it's head ... stop reeling.

2 very different tools. I do not think there is one right answer. So go with what the situation warrants.

Thanks for the question, and good luck, and come on Spring.


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
At what time would a person use the 600, 500 & 400 series reef runners for walleyes?

Thanks,
Ron


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## Jim Stedke

Ron, Assuming you are speaking of Erie....I sometimes use a smaller size lure to let me cover different depths, while using the same drop lengths. This works well with in-lines, where a high outside line can be reset to it's original postition. 

Other than that, it's a match the forage thing. Smaller prey in early summer, and larger as the season progresses. But early Spring is almost always a large lure time for me.

I run smaller lures in inland lakes most of the time.


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## Jim Stedke

harle96, Just so you don't feel bad....

The 1st time I ran big boards we set the lures, and began trolling. Pretty soon the center of 3 releases on the starboard side goes back about 4 feet. 
"Look at that center release. What do suppose is wrong with it?" We watch it for at least 5 minutes and I finally pop it and bring in a nice 6-1/2 pound walleye. 

So don't feel bad, we were all rookies at one one point.


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## Jim Stedke

EZ, I like to change things up with a double harness made with 2 different size Colorados size 3 in front of a 4. 

But there is no doubt that the double willow leafs catch more fish than all the others put together.

Let us know how yours work.


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## Bob Why

Last spring with the in-line boards I had a board that just did not look right. It may have been back 6" or so from where it should be. Finally decided to check it. Partner kept asking if I felt anything. Told him it felt like I had an old boot on. When I got it in was a 29" eye.


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## bobby

BobWhy,

we had similar experiences trolling. We'd some out of a turn and a board just never did quite catch up and fall in line like it should have. Almost every time it was a fish. Other times it was a tangled mess of crankbaits! This year I bought some tattle kits, hoping that will help me. last year was my first trolling and I thought I did real well. Lots of help from all hear, obviously. This year we are adding spinners, and bouncers, and maybe dipsy's to the arsenal.


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## snake69

Do many of you use bottom bouncers? I've tried them, but only on inland lakes with no real results. Maybe Erie is more practical...?


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, Bottom bouncers are used quite a bit by drift casters as drag lines. Some use them when the fish are sitting on the bottom effectivly. Others use them just like a snap wt to add depth to any presentation. So I guess the answer is yes many do utilize them. 

But I can honestly say I've never put a bb on my line while fishing on Erie. 

You can catch a walleye anyway you want to fish on Erie, if you work at it. That's one of the beauties of our lake. 

Thanks for the question, and come on Spring.


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## Guest

Bob why, You will like the tattle flag. They will help with detecting the hard to tell bites. They will also help with the small fish that are on it.


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## Fish-N-Fool

Snake - I will slow troll BB with a 8-12 ft leader of flourocarbon when the fish seem to be down low. We caught several fish like this last year including a few 10lbers. Also had one day we could not catch a fish running jets with harnesses/spoons and switched over and caught a 2 man limit in about an hour.

I always have them on my boat.


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## snake69

Yeah, I always have a 1/2 dozen in my boat too! Never tried them on Erie though. Will keep that in mind! Thanks for the tip....


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## Jim Stedke

To eliminate any misunderstanding, I don't dislike bottom bouncers. They need to be fished slower than I want to fish. I'm not knocking them, they just don't fit with my style of fishing.


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## ezbite

i read an article last year (i think.lol) where a professional walleye fishermen was running BB's (off the stern) and in-lines (off the sides)to take walleye. if i remember right he was running pretty fast. what are the speeds BB are usually run at? i too picked up some 3oz BB's this winter and was planning on pulling a harness or 2 this spring behind them. when i tie harnesses for BB's should i put a small float in place of a few beads to keep it off the bottom or will the water resistance keep it off?


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## Jim Stedke

EZ, BB speed is around 1.5 and down. If you do a float test you'll find the that it takes many floater beads to actually float the harness, and with larger blades and double blades the floats are a total waist of time. The bb experts control bottom contact with the harness by adjusting the leader length. The slower they go the shorter the leader from 48" for suspended presentations down to as short 18" or ever 12" for slow presentations. 

On Erie most of the pros use 40" leaders and fish at near the 1.5 mph speed, and they bring the bouncer off the bottom a couple feet. Then they use turns or speed changes to create lift and fall.

Thanks for the question, and come on Spring.


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## Fish-N-Fool

Call me an ignorant unconventionalist Last year was the first year I tried this - I tied mine 8-12 feet with single colorados and trolled anywhere from .8 to 2mph GPS and it worked! More proof that even a blind squirrel can find a nut I guess:T


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## Kershmon

silver shad if you use braid with in-lnlines a good invesment is offshore OR-18clips for the front they clamp on and won't slip . If you use tattle tale flags don't forget to put slack between the clips or the flag won't move.


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## Jim Stedke

Kershmon, Maybe I was not clear enough, the lengths I was referring to was for when you were using a bottom bouncer to actually run on the bottom.
Whatever you were doing was working well, so I wouldn't be in a hurry to fix it.


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## Kershmon

Jim Sorry for confusion I was responding to silver shads question about braid or mono on inlines. You are right on with bb lengths


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## Jim Stedke

Nope . My bad. I was replying to Fish-N-Fool. DUH !!!


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## snake69

Thanks for the replies on the BB's tho. It will be another method I'll try early on, especially if I'm not having any luck using conventional methods.


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, If you're going to do it early, keep the wts light & the drop lengths short so you can get at those high fish.


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## snake69

How light are we talking here? I believe you are to use one ounce for every 10' of water, right? But I do recall someone posting earlier, that the fish could be suspended at about say 15 foot in 40 fow. So are you saying if that particular scenario is the case, use a 1.5 bb? Is that what you mean? And by short leader, like 12-18"?


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, By drop length I mean the distance behind the board. Leader length would not be important in a suspended presentation. The harnesses I make and use are short Dipsy or Jet harnesses (only 10 ot 11" long). Made to be used with the same leaders we use behind Dipsy (6')

wts. - I'd probably set one side up with 1 oz and the other with 1-1/2 oz. It's important to use all the same size wts on a side. It helps reduce tangles.

Thanks for the question, good luck and come on Spring.


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## Jim Stedke

Potetial 1st trip 3/22. 
Too early for the shallow jigging so we'll likely do some trolling while looking for good marks close to the bottom. These fish are usually moving and anchoring only works good if you hit a travel route. Travel routes are most often contour lines with points and cups being the most productive.

There will likely be fish in shallow (14 - 16' of water) if the water is stained. But these fish will be up off the bottom and kinda hard to mark.

We may play with some smaller cranks, just to see what happens.

Can't wait ... just hope the ice is out of the way.


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## Bob Why

Jim, Hope the ice is gone and you can get out. good Luck and let us know how it goes.


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## Jim Stedke

The satalite image has been cloud obscured, and these just below freezing nights aren't helping, but at least it's close enough to make tenative plans. 

Thanks for the reply, and come on Spring. Oh yea Eran go bra


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## snake69

Don't forget the higher temps coming and two days of rain. That'll put a nice dent it it!! I agree, c'mon spring!!


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, I'm in as big a hurry as anyone. We just need enough ice to melt to egt the rest of it broke up and drifting back and forth across the lake. About 2 trips across and it will be much easier to deal with. 

I'm not in a hurry to get out there, and have the ice cut me off, from the habor or ramp. 

I've broke ice to get out before, but dealing with push ice is a different deal. Seeing that stuff between you & home would sure give you a sick feeling, and trying to get through it would be a good way to screw up a boat. 

Can't be too safe. Come on Spring.


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## snake69

Being that I live better than an hour away, by the time I make my first trip to Erie, it'll ALL be gone. I won't make a trip up there just to find out it's not fishable the way I want it, like NO ice. I will probably have made one or more trips to Berlin and Mosquito.


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## Jim Stedke

Snake, The comments I made were not intended to be taken personally. I've been on the lake a couple times in the early season when lives were lost fairly near by, and I always try to caution folks about how unforgiving the cold water is. 

I hope I did not offend you & if I did I'm quite sorry.

With the NE winds predicted for Thursday, I doubt the trip will happen.

Thanks for the reply, and come on Spring.


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## Gju42486

jim, can you go over the jet tuning again? i cant find it here. What you do as for as modifications go, what size links you use ect.


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## Jim Stedke

Here it is:
Jets perform best when tuned, just like a crank bait. Having no line tie eye to adjust, our first option is trying at reform the duo-lock snap, which is a tuff way to accomplish the task. 

A much easier way is to replace the snap with a #14 connecting link, (that's the one with a big loop at one end). Then it's quite easy to rack the link and get that Jet that's not getting to depth and trying to tangle the one beside it to run true.

This connecting link is availabke from Jann's Netcraft pg 15 item #335-505-014, 25 for 2.23 or 100 for 7.56.

One other thing we do to eliminate the problem of a Jet not wanting to dive, is bevel the edge of the hole for the snap or connector. This eliminates the bind that can be troublesome.

Hope this helps, and good fishing.


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## Gju42486

Thank you jim- i will be doing that. Also, while we are on the subject of jets, on the underside, where the leader goes. There are 2 different setting "holes". Are they made for different presentions or just a personal preference ect?


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## Jim Stedke

We use the hole to the rear. It gives the fish more levelerage against the Jet. Causing the Jet to turn over easier.

Good luck & come on Spring.


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## snake69

Jim,
To #363..absolutely not. Didn't even think that, no problem.


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