# Summertober Muskie, Eyes, Smallies, and Cats Oh My!



## meisjedog

I got to my spot at around 4:30 p.m. and didn't start catching until around 6:00, which has been typical. The past few weeks were on fire until those cold nights this week turned everything off. However, this little warmup was just enough to get them eating again - for me anyway.

I read somewhere on this forum that ripping a chrome rattle trap through the water this time of year will get you into something big. Be careful what you wish for because I was not prepared for the five-foot Muskie that smashed said lure and then took me to school! I had to bring it out of this deep hole on to a flat, and lucky for me, it snapped my line and launched the trap into a tree about 12' above my head. I say "lucky for me" because it was only 4' away and all I carry is a large leatherman - no gloves or a grip. No pics because I about wet myself quite honestly.

After that, I threw swimbaits and a propped marabou buzz bait with excellent results - pics below. All fish caught between 6:00 and dark - nothing after. Smallies caught in fast current, all others caught bumping the bottom of a slow rocky pool. Muskie hooked parallel to a ledge that drops into a 12' deep minimum deep pool.

22.5" Eye engulfed my Sunset Swim which is basically a Joshy Swimbait colored orange with a sharpie with the tail dipped in chartreuse dye. There is a picture of a cat below caught using the same bait.
















No short strikes here!













24" Flathead caught on someone's discarded swimbait. This fish made my arm tired!
















Smaller cat caught with Sunset Swim! (Orange sharpie and Charteuse dye)









Big Girl hit my Marabou Buzz Bait. Look at that lateral line - she's putting on some fat!
She actually fought harder than any of the fish I caught tonight - including the Muskie.















I call this Buzz Bait with the stinger hook "The Grim Reaper" because they rarely get away. Not quite as bad as the Whopper Plopper though as stinger does not get stuck in their gut or gills. Both of these fish appear foul hooked - never had that happen before. I think they initially take the main hook, but throw it and the stinger gets them.








Caught two 20" Drum on the Sunset Swim as well!


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## FlyFishRich

Nice night for sure. I might put the bow down and pick the rod back up....Rich


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## Brahmabull71

Not sure what camera / phone your using, but great pics! Congrats and thanks for sharing!


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## meisjedog

Brahmabull71 said:


> Not sure what camera / phone your using, but great pics! Congrats, and thanks for sharing!


Thanks! I wish I could do this on a regular basis! 

Galaxy S9+ - it's hit or miss much of the time. The phone is so big, and I am usually on the verge of dropping it. I typically use the burst feature and take 40-50 photos at a time. I prefer my Gopro because I can shoot in 4k, but every time I take it with me, I get skunked - same with the tripod. Man, I wish I had that Muskie on video though - fish of a lifetime for me.


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## meisjedog

FlyFishRich said:


> Nice night for sure. I might put the bow down and pick the rod back up....Rich


I've got deer in my backyard out the ying-yang if it were legal! I have seen Doe pop out of the bush in spring and take their first steps. There are some much bigger bucks around too, I rarely see them though.












Video shot further upriver a few miles.


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## DHower08

Sounds like a fun day i see channel cats thought but no flatheads? And a 5 foot muskie? State record


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## meisjedog

DHower08 said:


> Sounds like a fun day I see channel cats thought but no flatheads? And a 5-foot muskie? State record


I was catching Flatheads in a different area; they seemed to be gorging on minnows only, whereas the Channels are omnivorous and eat plants, crays, anything. Channels apparently like deeper, slower pools from what I have read anyway. Although they seem to eat the same thing, they do appear to prefer different sections of the river. That's about all I know.

Fish Ohio Muskie - not too concerned about records personally. I am 6'1," and this fish was about a foot shorter than me, so this is the only reference I could use to measure at the time. I have seen quite a few big ones that get stuck below Alum in pools, and this was easily twice the size. A once in a lifetime opportunity, I am still kicking myself! When it popped the hook, I let out a roar and string of expletives that I haven't heard since my Dad, and I used to fish out of Hot waters up in Lorain, and he would lose a big Walleye. There were a good 20-30 seconds where I seriously contemplated giving up fishing!


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## meisjedog

Stopped out again today because I thought the storm would blow the rivers out. Gail force winds and I could not locate the baitfish. I did, however, manage to hook this cat on a black bunny leach near the bottom of the off the 12' drop. I landed a so so Drum on a swimbait as well. Not great ...could always be worse.


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## acklac7

There's some monster Muskie in the Scioto, that's for sure. Sounds like a good trip!


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## Earthworms

5 foot Muskie.......sure it was not 10 foot long?


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## acklac7

lol, there's some 50's in the Scioto, guys. I've hooked them. OP's guess likely wasn't too far-fetched. They never see any pressure.


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## DHower08

acklac7 said:


> lol, there's some 50's in the Scioto, guys. I've hooked them. OP's guess likely wasn't too far-fetched. They never see any pressure.


I'm not doubting one bit about a 50. But 10 " difference in the fish world is huge


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## Specktur

Those are beautiful pictures.


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## meisjedog

Brought two home tonight to check quality control - the top one is 23". Fished from 1:00 to 7:30 - no bites until 7:00, heh! I could have easily limited out, but I typically don't eat the fish, and I'm not even sure where my fillet knife is stashed. Fish were stacked at the end of this pool in current along with cats, smallies, gar, and other fish I can't even identify. I caught the bottom fish after turning my headlamp on and seeing that it was about 5 feet in front of me - tossed the Joshy in right front of him and he took it immediately.


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## Snookhunter52

Good job! I fished the scioto yesterday and I only caught one small wiper on a 3.25 lemon shad. It says a lot that you are able to catch so many fish with the rivers being so low. I guess I still have a lot to learn when it comes to fishing the Scioto.


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## Southernsaug

I understand it's just a guess and probably not one from a lot of experience, but I will join the less than 50 pool with my bet. A 50 inch Muskie is a monster of a fish. I attended most of the Muskie award banquets for 20+ years and 50" inch fish are very rare let alone a 60". I have seen thousands and only one 50 incher. A 50 incher in a stream is even more rare. I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to introduce some reality and probability based on facts.
Here is a couple links:
http://ohmci.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Do-Muskies-get-that-big.pdf

http://ohmci.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Muskellunge_in_North_America.pdf 

go to table 10 on page 23 and you'll see a 60" has only been verified once in the records of North America


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## acklac7

Southernsaug said:


> I understand it's just a guess and probably not one from a lot of experience, but I will join the less than 50 pool with my bet. A 50 inch Muskie is a monster of a fish. I attended most of the Muskie award banquets for 20+ years and 50" inch fish are very rare let alone a 60". I have seen thousands and only one 50 incher. A 50 incher in a stream is even more rare. I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to introduce some reality and probability based on facts.
> Here is a couple links:
> http://ohmci.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Do-Muskies-get-that-big.pdf
> 
> http://ohmci.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Muskellunge_in_North_America.pdf
> 
> go to table 10 on page 23 and you'll see a 60" has only been verified once in the records of North America


With all the Rough fish down there to gorge on, and basically zero fishing pressure, you don't think there's a 50" Swimmin around? I've hooked one close to that, went better than my buddies 46" out of there a few years ago, I can tell you that much.


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## acklac7

meisjedog said:


> Brought two home tonight to check quality control - the top one is 23". Fished from 1:00 to 7:30 - no bites until 7:00, heh! I could have easily limited out, but I typically don't eat the fish, and I'm not even sure where my fillet knife is stashed. Fish were stacked at the end of this pool in current along with cats, smallies, gar, and other fish I can't even identify. I caught the bottom fish after turning my headlamp on and seeing that it was about 5 feet in front of me - tossed the Joshy in right front of him and he took it immediately.
> View attachment 327135


Might not want to find that fillet knife, lol. Eating Fish South of Greenlawn isn't for the faint of heart...

Edited to add sight fishing glowing Eyeballs is one fun way to target Saugeye! Amazing how chill they are when hit with a spotlight, at least in our rivers. I routinely am able to come within feet of them while wading.


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## Saugeyefisher

Ya for sure skis over 50" down there....
OP as alwats,nice fish! Enjoy the sammys!!!


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## TopRaider15

No doubt there are big Muskie in the Scioto, no doubt there are a few 4 footers and 50 inchers swimming around. But the genetics simply aren't there for a 5 footer, Riverine strain didn't evolve along with northern pike. Our fish grow very fast and die fast. 

None the less I would probably get a musky setup to bring with to that spot. They tend to concentrate this time of year and bet you could get that fish to bite again. Please do this, I want to see the pics.


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## meisjedog

acklac7 said:


> Might not want to find that fillet knife, lol. Eating Fish South of Greenlawn isn't for the faint of heart...
> 
> Edited to add sight fishing glowing Eyeballs is one fun way to target Saugeye! Amazing how chill they are when hit with a spotlight, at least in our rivers. I routinely am able to come within feet of them while wading.


Sent you a p.m.


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## Muddy

That sounds like a great trip, congrats. Don't let the internet police bring you down.


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## meisjedog

TopRaider15 said:


> No doubt there are big Muskie in the Scioto, no doubt there are a few 4 footers and 50 inchers swimming around. But the genetics simply aren't there for a 5 footer, Riverine strain didn't evolve along with northern pike. Our fish grow very fast and die fast.
> 
> None the less I would probably get a musky setup to bring with to that spot. They tend to concentrate this time of year and bet you could get that fish to bite again. Please do this, I want to see the pics.


Been trying daily/ nightly, however, the baitfish are no longer schooled at the dropoff - at least the past few days. The gale-force winds and leaves almost every cast have made it even more difficult. Considering I don't typically target them, I don't see myself investing in a net, bolt cutters and felt diaper to cuddle it in without getting my thread bombarded for landing it on cobble by the Ski PoPo if you know what I mean. It's my legal right, but it is more about buying the gear I will rarely use - we'll see.


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## TopRaider15

By a musky setup I mean your stoutest bass rod spooled with some 60lb power pro. 

I just want to see this fish man!


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## Snookhunter52

Don't let the Ski PoPo bother you. I've seen local guys talk like they're pro's on YouTube videos. Then when they get a muskie in the boat they are totally overwhelmed. The fish is thrashing about and people letting out expletives. If you're really worried about it all you need is a pair of grippers and jaw spreaders. Keep him in the water while doing this. You only need bolt cutters if you're using the heavy gauge hooks. If you catch a muskie on a rattle trap you could easily cut those hooks off with needle nose pliers. If you release it without bruising it too badly I don't think anybody will bother you. Stories like yours made me realize that when fishing in Scioto you never know what you're going to hook into as and it probably helps to be prepared for anything but within realm of reason. I hope you get him. I want to see pictures too.


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## acklac7

Mushijobahs's thick 46" from the same general area about 6 or 7 years ago. Biggest I've seen landed (from the River). I lost one bigger 3 or 4 years back, manhandled me on a Medium Heavy, felt powerless. Fish came 90% out of the water, almost like a slo-mo Missile, then just fell flat. Line sliced on her Gill plate. Big ole summabish Muskie.


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## Snookhunter52

It's amazing you guys are able to find all these good areas below greenlawn. Looking at Google earth there aren't many access points between greenlawn and 270 South.


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## acklac7

Snookhunter52 said:


> It's amazing you guys are able to find _*some*_ good areas below greenlawn. Looking at Google earth there aren't many access points between greenlawn and the _*Ohio River*_.


Fixed that for you. Access South of Greenlawn is a nightmare, it's nearly all private. I can tell you Mushijobah and I put in some serious, serious effort to get a tiny bit of access down there. It doesn't come easy...


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## Southernsaug

I apologize if I came across as some kind of self appointed internet police or ski po-po (whatever that is). I just like realist facts and sharing my knowledge so we can all be better informed. Many people simply just don't know much about Muskies. Hey, I'd love to see you get that big hog. She's there as they are very territorial and only water changes, season or catching her will move her. If you hook her do whatever it takes to get her on the bank. Then keep it or turn it loose, that is your choice. I have drug many up on the gravel. Most of Ohio's Muskellunge originated from the Ohio River strain, but Ohio has brought in fish from Pennsylvania, New York (chatauqua), Kentucky and I believe Wisconsin. The huge Muskies you read about are mostly the northern strains out of Wisconsin, Georgian bay and Canada. The Ohio River strain has less tendencies to reach the mega length and wght groups. I used to watch the catch reports and there are 40-50/52" inch fish, but that seems to be the upper threshold. I know there are some of you that are probably saying to yourself, "who made this guy an expert", you'll just have to trust me I know what I'm talking about.


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## Snookhunter52

acklac7 said:


> Fixed that for you. Access South of Greenlawn is a nightmare, it's nearly all private. I can tell you Mushijobah and I put in some serious, serious effort to get a tiny bit of access down there. It doesn't come easy...


Oh ok, I understand. I imagine you two probably knocked on quite a few doors to get some of the stream access. I honestly don't like Ohio's laws on stream access, but I know it's mostly because there's lots of people who leave trash everywhere when they're fishing. In some ways I wish it was like western states where you aren't trespassing as long as you stay below the high water mark and people cared enough to clean up their trash. I picked so many night crawler and chicken liver containers the other day that I filled up a small trash bag. Seeing so much trash bothers me. I'll try to find some public access areas because I'm not very good at knocking on doors. Maybe it's just my face haha.


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## Saugeyefisher

Snookhunter52 said:


> Oh ok, I understand. I imagine you two probably knocked on quite a few doors to get some of the stream access. I honestly don't like Ohio's laws on stream access, but I know it's mostly because there's lots of people who leave trash everywhere when they're fishing. In some ways I wish it was like western states where you aren't trespassing as long as you stay below the high water mark and people cared enough to clean up their trash. I picked so many night crawler and chicken liver containers the other day that I filled up a small trash bag. Seeing so much trash bothers me. I'll try to find some public access areas because I'm not very good at knocking on doors. Maybe it's just my face haha.


With a kayak your spots down there are endless! So much great looking water to fish!! And great multi species fishing


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## Snookhunter52

Saugeyefisher said:


> With a kayak your spots down there are endless! So much great looking water to fish!! And great multi species fishing


I want a kayak really bad but unfortunately I have a car and need to buy one those overpriced roof racks. I know I would use a kayak a lot, it's buying the roof rack that causing me to wait. I really do want to explore south of greenlawn.


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## OnTheFly

Snookhunter52 said:


> I want a kayak really bad but unfortunately I have a car and need to buy one those overpriced roof racks. I know I would use a kayak a lot, it's buying the roof rack that causing me to wait. I really do want to explore south of greenlawn.


Get an inflatable paddle board and strap a engel 30 l dry box/cooler with the rod holders to it as the seat. Best set-up I have used so far, plus i shove the paddle board in a large duffel and fly wherever i please with it. Have caught bass, bonefish, tarpon, pike, snook, trout and loads of other fish from it. Check out Atoll boards. Best thing it you can carry them far distances with one hand (no draggin 100lbs of plastic). will really open up some new spots. I would invest in an electric pump if you get one though. Gonna go even more portable with my next craft and get an Alpacka raft i think (need the $$$ first).

Still lurking around here and wish I could be back on the Ohio rivers. Talking about access it is tough to come by down there and you may need to get a bit creative. Water laws in Colorado are insane an heavily enforced, lots of incredibly prime water you cannot step foot (private ranches, clubs, etc.)- not every river but more than you would think, especially the good places close to the city. Also you have to pay $$ to access lots of the reservoirs that are state parks. It is redic.


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## Snyd

Sounds like a very fun evening - Congrats!


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## rickerd

OnTheFly - We've got to see you fight some Tarpon, Snook, Musky and Pike from that board. You are probably wake boarding sometimes right? Hope you get some videos for the Winter doldrums up North.

Rickerd


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## meisjedog

I would not advise putting an inflatable in below Greenlawn, or above and in the lower tangy - especially in 50-degree water.


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## acklac7

TopRaider15 said:


> No doubt there are big Muskie in the Scioto, no doubt there are a few 4 footers and 50 inchers swimming around. But the genetics simply aren't there for a 5 footer, Riverine strain didn't evolve along with northern pike.


What if these Fish are Native? "SBC" (I'm not going to say it) descendants? There's some food for thought....


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## acklac7

Southernsaug, your thoughts?


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## Vin

acklac7 said:


> What if these Fish are Native? "SBC" (I'm not going to say it) descendants? There's some food for thought....


I suspect that the muskies in the Scioto near the south side of the columbus are all Alum escapees. As you get closer to the Ohio River, you will see some that are naturally reproducing in some of the southern tribs. Most of the tribs Central Ohio don't have the clarity, structure, and vegetation to support natural reproduction.


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## acklac7

A wild Vin appears...


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## acklac7

Vin said:


> Most of the tribs Central Ohio don't have the clarity, structure, and vegetation to support natural reproduction.


You'd probably say the same thing about Paddlefish, wouldn't you? What say you in regards to this Juvenile?

Southernsaug, I'd also like your Professional opinion on this one.

https://www.ohiogamefishing.com/threads/paddlefish-above-greenlawn-yes-its-true.313990/


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## acklac7

(this is what OGF used to be like, btw)


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## Snookhunter52

Yes, I'm sitting back and reading everybody's hypotheses on the Scioto's muskie. It would be interesting if there is any scientific literature on it. If not, it would make a good master's thesis or PhD dissertation. Especially to look at the genetic data to see if there is an interbreeding between the muskies from Alum (several strains) and the native ohio muskies from the Ohio River. Has anybody seen anywhere whether the state has tried stocking the Scioto with paddlefish?


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## Snookhunter52

OnTheFly said:


> Get an inflatable paddle board and strap a engel 30 l dry box/cooler with the rod holders to it as the seat. Best set-up I have used so far, plus i shove the paddle board in a large duffel and fly wherever i please with it. Have caught bass, bonefish, tarpon, pike, snook, trout and loads of other fish from it. Check out Atoll boards. Best thing it you can carry them far distances with one hand (no draggin 100lbs of plastic). will really open up some new spots. I would invest in an electric pump if you get one though. Gonna go even more portable with my next craft and get an Alpacka raft i think (need the $$$ first).
> 
> Still lurking around here and wish I could be back on the Ohio rivers. Talking about access it is tough to come by down there and you may need to get a bit creative. Water laws in Colorado are insane an heavily enforced, lots of incredibly prime water you cannot step foot (private ranches, clubs, etc.)- not every river but more than you would think, especially the good places close to the city. Also you have to pay $$ to access lots of the reservoirs that are state parks. It is redic.


I've been too afraid to fish in an inflatable since our fish crew got their raft punctured going over an old collapsed bridge that they didn't know was there. This all happened in the Connecticut River, which is navigated pretty frequently, whereas the scioto isn't and I have seen some pretty gnarly stuff sticking out when the water is low. I would like to see some videos of you fighting large saltwater fish in a push board. Sounds awesome. I almost pulled the trigger on a kayak yesterday but I remembered I'm going to the dentist next week and it's been awhile. I'm not sure how much work they'll have to do on me. If it's not too bad I might get one next week.


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## Saugeyefisher

Not above greenlawn but a friend of mine witnessed a massive school of skipjack not to far from greenlawn about a month ago. He only caught one,but said the school was gorging on a school of minnows... 
Had another friend catch a sauger at the dam next to 670 last year or the year before ........ 
Cool stuff aj! Thanks for posting


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## acklac7

Saugeyefisher said:


> Not above greenlawn but a friend of mine witnessed a massive school of skipjack not to far from greenlawn about a month ago. He only caught one,but said the school was gorging on a school of minnows...
> Had another friend catch a sauger at the dam next to 670 last year or the year before ........
> Cool stuff aj! Thanks for posting


Skippies and Mooneyes are all the way up to Three Creeks (and beyond?) now. True story.

Next up: Sauger repopulating the Olentangy up to Dodridge. It will happen in my lifetime, I'm sure of it.


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## Saugeyefisher

acklac7 said:


> Skippies and Mooneyes are all the way up to Three Creeks (and beyond) now. True story.
> 
> Next up: Sauger repopulating the Olentangy up to Dodridge. It will happen in my lifetime, I'm sure of it.


Insane! But totally believable! Look at the pig wipers caught atgreenlawn every spring years prior to them being stocked in the river itself up here. I always herd stories of ponds stocked with wipers flooding into the river,but the to me the consistancy of them bei g caught every year was enuff to realize where they may have been coming from (ohio river or close to it) 
And I've never even thought of the muskie frim the southern stretches making there way up here,but why not? Like you said,unlimited amount of rough fish, shad,suckers,gar,baby gar,and not to mention all the saugeyes. 
Add that to the fish being pumped into alum creek! 
Imo it would be awful news if the dnr/corps found away to contain all the fish they stock in the reservoirs. 
Such a fishy river!


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## Vin

acklac7 said:


> You'd probably say the same thing about Paddlefish, wouldn't you? What say you in regards to this Juvenile?
> 
> Southernsaug, I'd also like your Professional opinion on this one.
> 
> https://www.ohiogamefishing.com/threads/paddlefish-above-greenlawn-yes-its-true.313990/


I’m not sure that paddlefish need the same kind of clear vegetated habitat to reproduce. I’ve actually witnessed spawning pairs in the scioto in the spring around circleville, and they spawn up and down the mississippi so turbidity doesn’t seem to affect them as much as musky. Super cool to see individuals getting above greenlawn though! (Shame they cant get much further than that)


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## acklac7

Vin said:


> Super cool to see individuals getting above greenlawn though! (_*Shame they cant get much further than that*_)


Both Dublin Rd and Dodridge are technically breachable, under certain conditions. Just throwing out a wild number here, but I'd say Dodridge can be overcome 10 days out of the year. Dublin Rd, on the other hand, maybe once or twice a year.

But still, it's possible...


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## meisjedog

acklac7 said:


> (this is what OGF used to be like, btw)


Yes, I liked it. Why did it change?


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## meisjedog

acklac7 said:


> Both Dublin Rd and Dodridge are technically breachable, under certain conditions. Just throwing out a wild number here, but I'd say Dodridge can be overcome 10 days out of the year. Dublin Rd, on the other hand, maybe once or twice a year.
> 
> But still, it's possible...


No Matter the size, they never stop trying. This Greenlawn, the first school made it much higher, but I did not have my camera ready.


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## Snookhunter52

meisjedog said:


> I got to my spot at around 4:30 p.m. and didn't start catching until around 6:00, which has been typical. The past few weeks were on fire until those cold nights this week turned everything off. However, this little warmup was just enough to get them eating again - for me anyway.
> 
> I read somewhere on this forum that ripping a chrome rattle trap through the water this time of year will get you into something big. Be careful what you wish for because I was not prepared for the five-foot Muskie that smashed said lure and then took me to school! I had to bring it out of this deep hole on to a flat, and lucky for me, it snapped my line and launched the trap into a tree about 12' above my head. I say "lucky for me" because it was only 4' away and all I carry is a large leatherman - no gloves or a grip. No pics because I about wet myself quite honestly.
> 
> After that, I threw swimbaits and a propped marabou buzz bait with excellent results - pics below. All fish caught between 6:00 and dark - nothing after. Smallies caught in fast current, all others caught bumping the bottom of a slow rocky pool. Muskie hooked parallel to a ledge that drops into a 12' deep minimum deep pool.
> 
> 22.5" Eye engulfed my Sunset Swim which is basically a Joshy Swimbait colored orange with a sharpie with the tail dipped in chartreuse dye. There is a picture of a cat below caught using the same bait.
> View attachment 326747
> 
> View attachment 326749
> 
> No short strikes here!
> View attachment 326751
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24" Flathead caught on someone's discarded swimbait. This fish made my arm tired!
> View attachment 326753
> View attachment 326755
> 
> 
> Smaller cat caught with Sunset Swim! (Orange sharpie and Charteuse dye)
> View attachment 326757
> 
> 
> Big Girl hit my Marabou Buzz Bait. Look at that lateral line - she's putting on some fat!
> She actually fought harder than any of the fish I caught tonight - including the Muskie.
> View attachment 326759
> View attachment 326761
> 
> I call this Buzz Bait with the stinger hook "The Grim Reaper" because they rarely get away. Not quite as bad as the Whopper Plopper though as stinger does not get stuck in their gut or gills. Both of these fish appear foul hooked - never had that happen before. I think they initially take the main hook, but throw it and the stinger gets them.
> View attachment 326763
> 
> Caught two 20" Drum on the Sunset Swim as well!
> View attachment 326765


Tried to replicate your success with fishing a chrome rat-L-trap. When I was ripping and letting it fall something big hit it hard on the fall. I set the hook but couldn't hook through its hard mouth which knowing the Scioto it could have been anything. Tried several other large baits. The river was up and full of small shiners. There was a guy catching a few saugeye in a nearby riffle. So if anybody is looking to catch some saugeye your best bet to catch numbers is in the rivers IMO.


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## meisjedog

Yeah, I've tried throwing everything at that hole, even tied up what I consider to be a "Muskie Slayer" spinnerbait but slew no Muskie. I fished Thursday night, and it was excellent for eyes and cats, due to the baitfish and hatch but nothing "worthy" of bending my 7' MH rod in half like that Muskie. I tried Friday night again, but the place seemed like it cleared out completely - did not see a single minnow.

Thursday Night





It will slay something one day.


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## TopRaider15

These are posts from the Musky Man himself Larry Ramsell from Muskie.outdoorsfrist.com

Larry Ramsell








Offline



Posts: 1154


Location: Hayward, Wisconsin Jaultman: Yep, lots of "strains". Perhaps the most important thing to know is that there are basically two different animals; Sympatric muskies and Allopatric muskies.

While both are "muskies" they have different reproductive strategies and different maximum growth potential.

Sympatric muskies are those that have Historically co-existed with Pike (esox lucius). They spawn twice and usually in deeper water and different locations than pike. They are capable of growing many more eggs and their maximum growth potential is upwards of 60-pounds.

Allopatric muskies were isolated in "usually" pothole lakes, after the glacier melted and the water receded, trapping them in separate lakes or small lake systems. There "originally" were NO pike present. Their growth potential is "usually" not much over 40-pounds and they spawn once in shallow water like pike.

Some want to say they are two separate "species" and some/most don't, but they are definitely different and have far different growth potential.

In NW Ontario, there are several Allopatric lakes near Sympatric lakes, but they have no connection. Mostly "little green" muskies are caught in the allopatric waters, whereas lakes like Eagle contain only sympatric muskies with huge growth potential.

Lake of the Woods, which is basically a reservoir, I believe, contains both. Hard to know what existed before man started damming most northwoods waters during the logging era.

Interesting subject for discussion and one many disagree on. If you are looking for "giants" and the lake record where you are fishing is 33 pounds, guess what...you will never catch a WR there (unless it is stocked with sympatric strain muskies)!
-----
Muskie regards,
Larry Ramsell
http://www.larryramsell.com


Larry, that is a wonderful post but does that apply to the southern river fish as well ?
Smell_Esox








Offline



P


Posts: 1154


There are no native pike in the south but the southern muskies (native) are
"Riverine" spotted muskies. Don't get quite as big as those up north as they don't live as long in the south due to longer growing seasons.

Smell: Correct.
-----
Muskie regards,
Larry Ramsell
http://www.larryramsell.com


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## TopRaider15

To make it clear, a fish over 40lbs cannot be native to the Scioto. If one were to get that heavy it would have to be a Sympatric escapee that was stocked in Alum. But it is too warm here for a Sympatric fish to achieve maximum growth due to climate. 

Would love to know the genetic makeup of the stocking pool. If I remember correctly muskie were taken in Otway Ohio and used as the brood stock for the whole Ohio musky program. That being said watersheds that are connected to the Great Lakes, where migration isn't blocked or the population originated from Great Lakes strain (Sympatric) have true trophy potential.


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## Vin

If what TopRaider said is true, there likely isn’t much difference between the alum escapees and the southern Ohio natural population. I imagine the hatchery takes measures to prevent genetic drift in their stock. For what it’s worth, I have worked in a few positions at OSU that have involved statewide electrofishing surveys and have surveyed much of the scioto all the way down to Portsmouth. The biggest we’ve boated was a hair shy of 48 inches. I’m sure there are a few 50+ fish around but I would be surprised if there are any of the upper 50s fish that you see in some of the lakes up north.


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## TopRaider15

I need to correct a statement I made before about a fish being over 40lbs not being native to the Scioto watershed. It is possible, genetic freaks exist. More so in the sense that some mutations result in a fish having no reproductive drive or some other "loose screw" that makes them binge on food. That said this fish likely would top out at around 4 feet. 

The picture attached is an example of one of these fish. 48 1/2 tiger, which are sterile, but usually go through the motions. Well the DNR determined that this fish likely had no reproductive drive and just binged. Again a genetic mistake that results in a massive fat but not long esox.


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## Saugeyefisher

The article says that they(sympatric) spawn twice?
What do they mean bye this? In a year,in a life time? Dump some eggs at one time then the rest later? Or dump redeveloped eggs 2x in the same year? 
I think I already know the answer,but not sure...


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## TopRaider15

Allopatric will pair up in shallow water, do the dance once and be done with it. 

Sympatric will spawn in deeper water, do the dance, eat and rest a bit, then back at it...mind you this occurs in a relatively short time frame.


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## acklac7

Trying to get I_shock_em to chime in here, but here's a quote of his from 9 years ago. He works in Fisheries, I would venture a guess he's telling the truth.



I_Shock_Em said:


> all I have to say is that I guarantee the state record musky is in the Scioto River near Circleville. shocked him up myself. 55 + inches. theres definately some big ones in there....flatties too


https://www.ohiogamefishing.com/threads/scioto-river.148087/#post-1027080

I too would agree the next State Record will come from the Scioto South of Greenlawn. You have all the ingredients for State Record Fish down there; Forage, Habitat, and most importantly little, if any, fishing pressure.


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## Southernsaug

Hey all, sorry I didn't answer. I been in Kentucky turkey hunting for a few days, and fishing some at Cave Run. On the Muskie topic. There are still native stocks in Scioto Brush Creek and Sunfish creek in southern Ohio. It is reasonable some of those stocks migrate, but most likely the muskies being caught in Cloumbus are escapees from Alum Creek.

I corrected this post, I meant to say Sunfish Creek not Kincaid


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## meisjedog

I was walking around this hole last night after catching eight 16-17" eyes on a suspending jerk bait and then snagging a large carp in the dorsal fin. I'm walking along the bank, and I see this fish I cannot identify. The two features I did notice was a reddish color/ brown color and a longer shark-like tail fin. It was sitting up on the bank, somewhat slender build and about 3' long. Any Ideas?


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## acklac7

Were the fins red, and the body brown?


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## meisjedog

acklac7 said:


> Were the fins red, and the body brown?


Heh, I know what your thinking and considering the tail profile is an exact match and the fact that the front of it looked something like a cross between a flathead and sucker(a bit harder to see as it swam away). Overall, it was a brownish-red color, but it was hard to make out any more detail. I am relatively sure it was a Shovelnose sturgeon as they have been found all the way up to Circleville and can make its way up to the first dam in Columbus according to the article. What I saw was about the size or slightly smaller than the one he is holding in the photo. 

http://www.fishingworld.com/fishing...8/t/shovelnose-sturgeon-return-to-ohio-waters

Pretty Cool!


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## Southernsaug

It possibly could have been a shovelnose sturgeon. They were reintroduced into the Scioto River in the early 2000s. Just do a search for some pictures

https://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/fishing/species/shovelnose-sturgeon/shovelnose-sturgeon-identification

I see someone posted an article as I was typing.


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## Vin

Vin said:


> If what TopRaider said is true, there likely isn’t much difference between the alum escapees and the southern Ohio natural population. I imagine the hatchery takes measures to prevent genetic drift in their stock. For what it’s worth, I have worked in a few positions at OSU that have involved statewide electrofishing surveys and have surveyed much of the scioto all the way down to Portsmouth. The biggest we’ve boated was a hair shy of 48 inches. I’m sure there are a few 50+ fish around but I would be surprised if there are any of the upper 50s fish that you see in some of the lakes up north.


Dug up a picture of the aforementioned fish. They certainly get big in the scioto.


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## Southernsaug

The original stocks of Muskie were from Sunfish creek in southern Ohio and possibly a couple other southern Ohio streams. They are Ohioensis strain, there has been genetic diversification from trading stocks with neighboring states over the years. A lot of Muskies were brought in from Ky, that strain is a pretty close genetic match to Ohio's and still of stream origins. Some have come from New York as well. The whole thing on northern strains and there spawning habits off shore behavior and so on....well I'm not even opening that can of worms nor offering an opinion ( so draw your own conclusions). On the size of Muskies in the Scioto....I fully agree there are most likely some real trophies and probably a few 50 inchers. What is most common when comparing river fish to lake fish, lake fish are almost always heavier and have a more robust build (known as condition factor). River fish are more slender and muscular built from swimming in current. I would not expect Ohio's next state record to come from a river. A lot of the Alum Creek Muskies were from Ky stock.


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## TopRaider15

The fish in Vin's picture is an Ohio trophy for sure but I would be surprised if it hit 40lbs on the scale. Again not to be a musky downer, I just think being aware of the potential of certain areas helps plan your musky efforts. If you are after a true trophy make plans to fish trophy water.


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## Southernsaug

I would agree topraider, it doesn't have enough girth to weigh 40. I'd guess that fish is 46-48 inches and 30-34 lbs myself. The head also is not representative of a really heavy fish. Just my opinion, not digging on anyone


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## meisjedog

I'm not sure where weight became a part of the conversation or why this thread lingers well into Wintervember. You are right however, there is absolutely no potential for a trophy out of this water - I would avoid it at all costs!


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## Southernsaug

It's just conversation......I don't think anyone meant any offense. The fact it lingers means you made a great post that a lot of people had interest in and I think there has been a lot of useful information.


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## TopRaider15

meisjedog said:


> I'm not sure where weight became a part of the conversation or why this thread lingers well into Wintervember. You are right however, there is absolutely no potential for a trophy out of this water - I would avoid it at all costs!
> View attachment 329125


 the Crawford Formula (L X G/25 minus 10) for fish under 50lbs

Modified Crawford Formula for fish over 50lbs (L X G/25-8)

Plug in the numbers and see for yourself. 

Because a 5 foot musky would be well over 40lbs. Using the standard Crawford Formula based on what you said (60x22) using a tiny girth (to prove a point) for a fish that length still puts the fish at 42 lbs. Just looking to provide accurate information to those that don't have a ton of experience with the fish.


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## meisjedog

Southernsaug said:


> It's just conversation......I don't think anyone meant any offense. The fact it lingers means you made a great post that a lot of people had interest in and I think there has been a lot of useful information.



No worries - it's just that when the end of your rod becomes possessed as mine did on that day, it is hard to put it behind you considering it was a fish of a lifetime. It is also big water with a relatively small section that is composed of an excellent habitat that holds numerous types of fish for different reasons throughout the year. Below this section that is now almost indistinguishable from the rest of the river due to higher/normal flow lies an ideal feeding ground for the largest of predators. There are multiple characteristics and species of this very small section that I haven't mentioned which are unique to the flow as well. I spend much of my time exploring these flows both on foot as well as floating and I yet to see an area with such abundance of diversity in such a condensed area. Even with the cooldown, fish are still located in the fastest water - Eyes, Gar, Carp, and cats swimming practically at my feet in 350cfs along with other fish I can't identify - some are wipers, but they spook quickly, so I only get a glimpse. These fish are working hard to keep up and with the toe numbing cold water(new waders arrived today) as well as the diminished clarity at night, It is difficult to figure it all out. The bank is still lined with 2"-3" shiners in abundance, but the fish are not feeding on the seemingly easy prey? I've seen schools of gills in the area earlier and someone mentioned skippy's, and there have to be shad which I have yet to see, but they must be waiting on these larger meals and passing on the shiners. I have only been able to hook into muskie on that day, but I can't determine what they were after and while the conditions have changed, a photo below of a recent dead fish shows some are still near, just not feeding below the drop. The wind out of the south was blowing everything into this hole much as you would expect that day - it is clearly visible in the above photo. Casting my trap above that dropoff spooked thousands of minnows that had been pushed up by the wind, but I think those Muskie must have been waiting for something else that has now moved into the lower pool making them difficult to locate. When I arrived yesterday, there were four blue herons down there - I typically see one which is always a good sign, but four in less than 75 yards? No bites on any hard baits but had something large following my joshy out of that drop - I then saw a flash from a wide fish and it turned away. I have always located the fish in the fastest tailwater of two pools and my largest eye mid pool earlier dragging a swimbait over snaggy structure I can't currently reach due to the fast water and funky clarity at night. I have yet to catch anything out of the smaller riffle/ run which is 7 or 8 feet deep. I figure I discovered this place a few weeks too late as the riffle and run seem ideal for smallies. The head of this pool and little riffle held numerous crawfish and hundreds of toads in the grass earlier as well - I thought they were grasshoppers at first simply because there were so many and they would jump about three/ four feet at a time. I know there are larger fish here, I'm not complaining. I believe with the clarity at night and their preference for the same specific structure, I have yet to tap into more 23"+ fish unless I bump them in the nose. Last night I could sight fish for those eyes and caught five within 30 minutes, nothing over 18" though.

Considering all that I have described above which I have not embellished in the least and the fact that there are other key features that I have not mentioned, it is big fish water capable of holding at least one monster fish. I stand by my original measurement of 5' because statistical models for fish size are too typical and do not account for beyond exceptional habitat and completely unpressured water such as this.

Hoped to get out tomorrow as my new waders arrived and the sun warms the water(and me just a bit), however, Deleware bumped it up for a bit then back down, so now it is 570cfs which is too much. Hoping it will drop by afternoon - not looking good.

Five eyes last night with my headlamp on - just toss a swim upstream about 10' and wham!
All in tailwater away from structure - other than the fact that they were in slightly slower water about 2' down.









Toads packed like grasshoppers!









A highly prized rod folding fish I have not discussed. This fish is running parallel to the edge of a 12-15' drop and getting anything large up and over that drop has proved difficult. Time for new bearings and maybe a reel!










An abundance of bait - although somewhat hard to see due to my camera.









Gar 3' away right in there with everything else at 320 cfs.









This one was only dead for several hours when I found it last week early in the morning. Much, much smaller, but only about 25' away from where the other one hit. The wound has a semicircle shape to it which at first I thought might have been another ski, but I could see no other teeth marks. It could have swallowed a treble and someone sliced it along the gill to get it out, but it would not have made it very far and I am fairly certain it was not landed at this location. No animal tracks or other footprints around and it was on a mud bar, so I could get no closer.


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## TopRaider15

Just make sure you take pictures of that 5 footer. The esox world will have a new hot spot to hammer. A watershed and forage base 1/1,000,000,000 the size of the Great Lakes is producing world record fish, this gene pool must be crazy, the scientist must have really missed one here. 

Tight lines bud


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## I_Shock_Em

acklac7 said:


> Trying to get I_shock_em to chime in here, but here's a quote of his from 9 years ago. He works in Fisheries, I would venture a guess he's telling the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ohiogamefishing.com/threads/scioto-river.148087/#post-1027080
> 
> I too would agree the next State Record will come from the Scioto South of Greenlawn. You have all the ingredients for State Record Fish down there; Forage, Habitat, and most importantly little, if any, fishing pressure.


We collected that fish during an electrofishing survey in 2009. Hell of a fish. Biggest fish I've ever sampled out of Ohio waters. We put an almost 10lb saugeye in the boat that day as well!!! That area of the Scioto is one of the, if not the most biodiverse, sections of stream/river in the state when it comes to fish.


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## acklac7

Helped one of my buddies land this monster 48” tonight within a couple of miles of meisjedog’s spot. Biggest Muskie I’ve seen (nor heard of) come out of the River (on a hook and line) 

They in there...


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## Vin

Awesome fish! This is a good time of year to target them since the cooler water helps the big fish stay healthy for a release.


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## Snookhunter52

That's a great fish. Did you catch it while fishing for saugeye?


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## acklac7

Snookhunter52 said:


> That's a great fish. Did you catch it while fishing for saugeye?


Just fishing for whatever, I managed to get a nice 24” Wiper too, no eyes.


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## Snookhunter52

Nice!!! I need to do some scouting, my usual spot on the scioto has kinda slowed down. I only managed to catch one decent sized saugeye on a slimsbait j5. I was the only guy to catch a fish the whole time I was out. I think I might try scouting around griggs tomorrow.


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## acklac7

Snookhunter52 said:


> Nice!!! I need to do some scouting, my usual spot on the scioto has kinda slowed down. I only managed to catch one decent sized saugeye on a slimsbait j5. I was the only guy to catch a fish the whole time I was out. I think I might try scouting from the greenlawn bridge to 104 tomorrow night.


As long as you’re carrying you should be fine. I had a long talk with one of my ranger buddies last night at Greenlawn, and I went over some of my concerns with the homeless camp on the east side. He said that group is fine but the groups further on down to 104 (and past) are who you need to watch out for. Me personally? I won’t venture more than 200 yards south of Greenlawn Bridge afterdark unless I’m with a buddy. This goes for all spots south of Greenlawn up to 270. (I don’t carry). There’s some sketchy stuff that goes down along the river through there, I’ve seen people huffing gas, homeless getting in fights etc. Also, you can scream bloody murder for most all of that stretch and nobody is going to hear you, save for the homeless population who often lack the means to call 911. Just sketchy.


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## Southernsaug

Nice Musky, won't get many of them in a lifetime. Typical stream fish long but more on the slender side. Got that typical Ky. strain markings too


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## acklac7

Southernsaug said:


> Nice Musky, won't get many of them in a lifetime. Typical stream fish long but more on the slender side. Got that typical Ky. strain markings too


So me and my buddy were talking, and I mentioned how the fish was rather skinny for this time of year. Not quite emaciated, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one that skinny outside of the warmer months??

One of our Muskie expert buddies said the fish is almost surely ancient and well past her prime. He stated this was likely the reason she wasn’t as healthy as the other Muskie we’ve caught on the river during the colder months. He also said that fish may have gone 50” two or three years ago.

Your thoughts?


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## acklac7

Vin said:


> Awesome fish! This is a good time of year to target them since the cooler water helps the big fish stay healthy for a release.


While on the Skinny side for this time of year, that fish was healthy. Went nutso at the bank, landing her without a net was a chore. Revived her for a good 2-3 minutes, although she really didn't look like she needed reviving in the first place. Pretty neat, after we revived her she just sat there chilling with us along the bank for 3-4 minutes. Then slowly swam off, healthy as can be. Not an expert by any means, but I'd give her an 85%+ chance of living to next year (and maybe beyond?) given how unphased she appeared to be after we got her back in the water.


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## Southernsaug

acklac7 said:


> So me and my buddy were talking, and I mentioned how the fish was rather skinny for this time of year. Not quite emaciated, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one that skinny outside of the warmer months??
> 
> One of our Muskie expert buddies said the fish is almost surely ancient and well past her prime. He stated this was likely the reason she wasn’t as healthy as the other Muskie we’ve caught on the river during the colder months. He also said that fish may have gone 50” two or three years ago.


From what I saw in the video she's fine. It'd been nice to see her swim away a little sooner, but she was maintaining equilibrium (a good sign). You done a good job with the reviving. Let me just add that on fresh water fish don't swim them like a salt water fish. You just want to force water over the gills. The back and forth method like you used does that well. If they won't set upright after a few minutes they most likely will die even if they swim off.

On the fish's condition, she looked fine to me. Fish that have lived most of their life in a stream are not as robust as lake fish. Swimming in current makes them more slender and muscular and they burn more calories. As to age, it would be interesting to see a scale. No doubt it's an older fish, because it takes time to get that big. I have no idea why he thought she would shrink. Fish actually never really quit growing, they just level off at maximum length limits. They will lose body mass though. If a fish is so old they are losing condition factor you will notice a disproportionate head to body relationship. The fish seems to slim down from the head back and eyes will appear enlarged. When handling fish to release keep it wet as much as possible, avoid nets and dry handling. I have seen videos where anglers let muskies flop around on a boat bottom and carpet and I just cringe.... holding in a net would be better. The goal is to reduce slime removal as much as possible. Wet hands are fine. Even rolling around in some dirt and gravel for a moment is not too injurious, but ideally net a fish and leave the net in the water then lift the fish out with wet hands. If your measuring wet your board first. Personally I rather not see a fish that will be released handled by the gill arches, I prefer just to cradle them, but it's not a total no no. Just be careful not to tear any gills and cause bleeding. Those capillaries will not absorb oxygen once damaged and bleeding. 

Thanks for posting Acklac7. I was going to just PM you, but thought my reply would be good to share. I know some wonder why what I think matters, but I'm not ready to share my qualifications.....you can just vouch for my authenticity, ok


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## acklac7

Southernsaug said:


> From what I saw in the video she's fine. It'd been nice to see her swim away a little sooner, but she was maintaining equilibrium (a good sign). You done a good job with the reviving. Let me just add that on fresh water fish don't swim them like a salt water fish. You just want to force water over the gills. The back and forth method like you used does that well. If they won't set upright after a few minutes they most likely will die even if they swim off.
> 
> On the fish's condition, she looked fine to me. Fish that have lived most of their life in a stream are not as robust as lake fish. Swimming in current makes them more slender and muscular and they burn more calories. As to age, it would be interesting to see a scale. No doubt it's an older fish, because it takes time to get that big. I have no idea why he thought she would shrink. Fish actually never really quit growing, they just level off at maximum length limits. They will lose body mass though. If a fish is so old they are losing condition factor you will notice a disproportionate head to body relationship. The fish seems to slim down from the head back and eyes will appear enlarged. When handling fish to release keep it wet as much as possible, avoid nets and dry handling. I have seen videos where anglers let muskies flop around on a boat bottom and carpet and I just cringe.... holding in a net would be better. The goal is to reduce slime removal as much as possible. Wet hands are fine. Even rolling around in some dirt and gravel for a moment is not too injurious, but ideally net a fish and leave the net in the water then lift the fish out with wet hands. If your measuring wet your board first. Personally I rather not see a fish that will be released handled by the gill arches, I prefer just to cradle them, but it's not a total no no. Just be careful not to tear any gills and cause bleeding. Those capillaries will not absorb oxygen once damaged and bleeding.
> 
> Thanks for posting Acklac7. I was going to just PM you, but thought my reply would be good to share. I know some wonder why what I think matters, but I'm not ready to share my qualifications.....you can just vouch for my authenticity, ok


Excellent Info (as always).

By all means, please post everything public, so long as it doesn't jeopardize a given fishery (like I really need to mention that).

We are _extremely_ privileged to have you as a contributor. There simply aren't many people on your level to begin with, let alone in a position (be it willingly or unwillingly) to provide feedback on a public fishing forum. *Please stick around.*

You ever need a reference let me know.


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## Snookhunter52

acklac7 said:


> As long as you’re carrying you should be fine. I had a long talk with one of my ranger buddies last night at Greenlawn, and I went over some of my concerns with the homeless camp on the east side. He said that group is fine but the groups further on down to 104 (and past) are who you need to watch out for. Me personally? I won’t venture more than 200 yards south of Greenlawn Bridge afterdark unless I’m with a buddy. This goes for all spots south of Greenlawn up to 270. (I don’t carry). There’s some sketchy stuff that goes down along the river through there, I’ve seen people huffing gas, homeless getting in fights etc. Also, you can scream bloody murder for most all of that stretch and nobody is going to hear you, save for the homeless population who often lack the means to call 911. Just sketchy.


Thanks for the heads up, I'll probably try scouting new spots in the deeper lakes till they freeze. Then just stick to the spillways. I always trust you veterans to give me the honest take on things and you guys haven't failed me yet.


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## TopRaider15

acklac7 said:


> Helped one of my buddies land this monster 48” tonight within a couple of miles of meisjedog’s spot. Biggest Muskie I’ve seen (nor heard of) come out of the River (on a hook and line)
> 
> They in there...
> 
> View attachment 333685
> 
> 
> View attachment 333649


Absolute beauty! 

Did you happen to get a girth measurement?


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## acklac7

TopRaider15 said:


> Absolute beauty!
> 
> Did you happen to get a girth measurement?


Nope, just a quick length and picture then sent her back on her way


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## Athens_Smallmouth

acklac7 said:


> As long as you’re carrying you should be fine. I had a long talk with one of my ranger buddies last night at Greenlawn, and I went over some of my concerns with the homeless camp on the east side. He said that group is fine but the groups further on down to 104 (and past) are who you need to watch out for. Me personally? I won’t venture more than 200 yards south of Greenlawn Bridge afterdark unless I’m with a buddy. This goes for all spots south of Greenlawn up to 270. (I don’t carry). There’s some sketchy stuff that goes down along the river through there, I’ve seen people huffing gas, homeless getting in fights etc. Also, you can scream bloody murder for most all of that stretch and nobody is going to hear you, save for the homeless population who often lack the means to call 911. Just sketchy.


This is so true. I avoid too many spots after dark that I know hold fish especially if I am by myself. A few years ago I didn’t mind as much but it seems to be getting a lot worse. South of Greenlawn can be a sketchy place indeed.


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## Southernsaug

A few years ago a guy was robbed at Paint Creek spillway. After that it seemed everyone was packing heat. The sad thing is if they had caught you packing it would have been a felony under the anti terrorism laws today, because it's a federal military property. So be aware of where your at. At Paint creek they stepped up law enforcement (mostly under cover ) and there has never been a problem again. They caught the robbers and they got charged with federal crimes way more serious than just theft/robbery. I know the parties involved and know it's true.


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## Snookhunter52

I guess while we're on the subject of this, does anybody know what the area is like around the confluence of the olentangy and scioto? I was thinking of fishing there at night. I don't want to get caught in any sketchy situations or bothered by police cuz i'm accidentally fishing where I shouldn't. I don't mind if I get skunked just want to try out some new places.


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## acklac7

Snookhunter52 said:


> I guess while we're on the subject of this, does anybody know what the area is like around the confluence of the olentangy and scioto? I was thinking of fishing there at night. I don't want to get caught in any sketchy situations or bothered by police cuz i'm accidentally fishing where I shouldn't. I don't mind if I get skunked just want to try out some new places.


The main thing issue you have with the Confluence area is again, the homeless population. Basically anywhere South of OSU on the Olentangy, and anywhere south of the Dublin Rd Lowhead on the Scioto you're going to have a heavy transient population living along the river. In my experience, most of the homeless keep to themselves and are actually pretty good people. However, drug use, and especially mental health issues run rampant in those communities. That said, in my years of fishing that area (this includes South of Greenlawn) I've only had one incident (with a buddy) where one of them started going off on us and began throwing rocks and bottles down at us from an embankment. This was during the day, and I was with a buddy, but still, I called the police (the guy was obviously mentally unstable). This was right at the Confluence.

I would definitely say the confluence area is safer than the area south of Greenlawn, but still, I don't quite feel comfortable fishing areas with heavy homeless populations alone after dark. Now, I have one buddy that does it all the time, clear up to 4am, and rarely has issues. That said he carries a glock, and will whip it out in a millisecond if he hears the first tree branch snap.

Police won't give you any problems, by the way.


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## Snookhunter52

Ok thanks, I'll probably hold off on going there til i'm not working 6 days a week. Then I'll try to hit it a few times during the day so I can get my bearings. Until then I'll stick to fishing the lakes and spillways at night.


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## Saugeyefisher

I've fished the confluence after dark by myself and with friends a few times.... I wont do it with out carrying anymore. It was sketchy, lol... for me the very worst thing about fishing flowing water at night is not being able to here anything/anyone walking up on you because of the background noise from the water flowing.... I'm constantly looking over my shoulder,an it gets old fast....


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## Snookhunter52

Thanks man for the heads up, yes i'm beginning to understand fishing anywhere downtown that isn't well lit requires with fishing with a friend. I'm ok with it, I have a good friend that said he wants to try finding some new spots. We'll try it out during the day and see if it's worth it or not. If anything it will just be a daytime spot or a good place to drift by in a kayak.


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## MIGHTY

I don’t really have a ton to add about the fishing discussed in this thread since I mostly fish the Scioto for flatheads (but not very often). I work on Greenlawn ave. I can walk to the dam in about 5 minutes. The river runs right behind the building I work in. I’ve walked out back numerous times and cleared a path to the river years ago so I could fish at lunch time. There was a HUGE homeless gathering back there years ago. About 6-7 years ago some city workers or something went back there with heavy equipment and went to work cleaning it up and the homeless folks relocated. My boss’ two boys will go back there every so often but it’s usually all clear until you get way up around the bend in the river right along the 71 freeway. That said, I’ve parked right at the dam alone and with one other person multiple times over the years and fished a couple hundred yards down from the dam until dark and never saw a soul. Every day at lunch I drive over and check the river and look for
People fishing. Over the last few weeks I’ve noticed some tents on the opposite bank from where people park to fish the dam. Haven’t been down there much over the last 2+ years but there’s the Nice walking path that runs right along the river that’s usually pretty busy with people walking/riding bikes etc. unless you guys are talking a littler further south than that where it gets sketchy I wouldn’t be too concerned about fishing out there. Of course, carrying is never a bad idea either. Just last year??? When we did the annual trash clean up down there someone stole a bike in broad daylight with ~75 standing there together picking up trash lol so you never know.


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## Vin

MIGHTY said:


> .... When we did the annual trash clean up down there someone stole a bike in broad daylight with ~75 standing there together picking up trash lol so you never know.


I actually had my bike stolen a few years back in broad daylight while fishing the Olentangy. I knew there was a homeless population nearby but I figured if I stayed close it wouldn’t be an issue. Well, I was wrong. I couldn’t have been more than 50 yds away but I had my back turned and when I wrapped things up it was gone.


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## acklac7

One of my best friends, one of the best Saugeye Fisherman out there, has been homeless for the past 5 years. This person was one of the strongest guys I know, he worked his feet into the ground day after day, year after year, only to come home and absolutely destroy Saugeye nearly into the AM hours at some of the most inaccessible spots on the River known to man. Only to wake up and do it all over again the next day. He served as a role model for most of my life (he's also a disabled Vet).

Long story short: A lot of these people, the vast majority of them, are decent human beings, they mean no harm. They're just trying to survive.

A few of them are true-criminals, but that's the exception.

The biggest concern when encountering the homeless is their state of mental health. Not whether they will rob you. Most of them are so far gone they don't know what to do with money. I tried to bring my buddy in off the streets, I gave him everything he could ever want: he went back the next day.

It is for this reason (along with what I stated below) that I routinely fish Greenlawn (Dam) by myself into the early hours of the morning. I know those people aren't there to rob me, to steal from me, to harm me. They're trying to survive. I've been advised as such by park rangers. They have jobs. South of there? Different story. Evidently some of them are true criminals.

Long story short: Use extreme caution when fishing spots on the Scioto/Olentangy from Downtown to 270 after dark. My rule of thumb? I only fish spots where someone is almost guaranteed to hear me if I scream bloody murder. Just as a precaution - I've had all but one issue over the past decade in that area. But still, the opportunity for foul-play is ever-present from the Confluence-South.

That said, all in all, the homeless population as a whole is actually a rather good bunch. For the most part, they mean no harm. Just use caution when fishing remote areas they frequent late into the night, especially if there's nobody nearby (other than the homeless) that can hear you scream. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but there are some seriously sketchy parts of the River South of Greenlawn to 270. Combine that with a heavy transient population prone to mental health issues? Just not a good scenario.


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## Vin

+1 to all of that, acklac7. Obviously exercise caution and don’t put yourself in dangerous situations, as mental instability is an issue in these communities. However, recognize that a lot of these people are actually gentle, hardworking, intelligent people that have had some extremely unfortunate life circumstances. If you ever get the opportunity to talk to them, you may be surprised by a lighthearted and often entertaining chat.


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## acklac7

Vin said:


> +1 to all of that, acklac7. Obviously exercise caution and don’t put yourself in dangerous situations, as mental instability is an issue in these communities. However, recognize that a lot of these people are actually gentle, hardworking, intelligent people that have had some extremely unfortunate life circumstances. If you ever get the opportunity to talk to them, you may be surprised by a lighthearted and often entertaining chat.


Ed is smart, perhaps smarter than me. He was one of the hardest working son of a $$$ I know, and one hell of an amazing Saugeye fisherman, right up there with fishslim. The guy would never hurt a soul. He's been through a lot.

I gave him everything: money, a place to stay, a job. He went back to the streets the next day. He's just too sick at this point.

Life can get horrifying: Try your best to stay strong.


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## MIGHTY

There was one fella we saw quite often standing at the exit ramp from 71 onto Greenlawn with a sign. One day my boss’ oldest sons car ran out of gas and he helped push it out of the way. They walked to work, got another vehicle and drove to get lunch and yes, he even bought him a beer afterwards. He was very nice and didn’t ask for anything after helping push the car. Can’t help but feel bad for a lot of them. Just out of curiosity and not to derail the thread, is there any sketchy areas around the boat ramp at 762?


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## Vin

MIGHTY said:


> There was one fella we saw quite often standing at the exit ramp from 71 onto Greenlawn with a sign. One day my boss’ oldest sons car ran out of gas and he helped push it out of the way. They walked to work, got another vehicle and drove to get lunch and yes, he even bought him a beer afterwards. He was very nice and didn’t ask for anything after helping push the car. Can’t help but feel bad for a lot of them. Just out of curiosity and not to derail the thread, is there any sketchy areas around the boat ramp at 762?


I imagine that once you get that far out of the city you’re probably not going to have any issues as far as sketchy areas like those mentioned in this thread. That particular spot is not one that I’m familiar with.


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## Snookhunter52

Thanks guys for providing all this good info. I spent 5 years in a developing country and the number one thing that experience taught me was to always show other people respect no matter what they look like. I'm glad that you guys also share this philosophy.

Man acklac7, no wonder we haven't ever crossed paths I could never fish that early in the morning haha. I fish there til 9 at the latest. But ya honestly, I'll probably just stick to fishing in the spillways at night and fish in the more remote areas during the day. I'm probably too inexperienced at fishing the scioto right now to safely navigate those remote areas.


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## acklac7

Snookhunter52 said:


> Thanks guys for providing all this good info. I spent 5 years in a developing country and the number one thing that experience taught me was to always show other people respect no matter what they look like. I'm glad that you guys also share this philosophy.
> 
> Man acklac7, no wonder we haven't ever crossed paths I could never fish that early in the morning haha. I fish there til 9 at the latest. But ya honestly, I'll probably just stick to fishing in the spillways at night and fish in the more remote areas during the day. I'm probably too inexperienced at fishing the scioto right now to safely navigate those remote areas.


If you cross paths with me you're doing something right, I'll tell you that much . For the most part, I don't run into a whole lot of people I don't know on the River.

Always be mindful of your surroundings, always be safe.


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## Muddy

acklac7 said:


> Ed is smart, perhaps smarter than me. He was one of the hardest working son of a $$$ I know, and one hell of an amazing Saugeye fisherman, right up there with fishslim. The guy would never hurt a soul. He's been through a lot.
> 
> I gave him everything: money, a place to stay, a job. He went back to the streets the next day. He's just too sick at this point.
> 
> Life can get horrifying: Try your best to stay strong.


Is that the same Ed that worked at Gander Mountain 10 or 15 years ago?


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## Muddy

MIGHTY said:


> There was one fella we saw quite often standing at the exit ramp from 71 onto Greenlawn with a sign. One day my boss’ oldest sons car ran out of gas and he helped push it out of the way. They walked to work, got another vehicle and drove to get lunch and yes, he even bought him a beer afterwards. He was very nice and didn’t ask for anything after helping push the car. Can’t help but feel bad for a lot of them. Just out of curiosity and not to derail the thread, is there any sketchy areas around the boat ramp at 762?


The only problem that I’ve heard of there was the pot growing operation that was found there about 5 years ago.


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## acklac7

Muddy said:


> Is that the same Ed that worked at Gander Mountain 10 or 15 years ago?


Same Ed. He lived to Fish. After his son died in his arms he was never the same. Eventually got dealt a bad hand while trying to help his girlfriend (at the time), and wound up on the streets. This was 5 years ago. About 6 months ago he was hospitalized, and I worked with his family to get him his old job back, a place to stay, and food / bus money. He went back to the streets the next day, and has remained there ever since. I guess it’s all he knows now. Why he didn’t so much as attempt to keep a roof over his head for more than 24 hours is beyond me, he’s just not well mentally (doesn’t appear to be a drug issue). It’s a horrifying life out there.


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## Muddy

That’s too bad. He was a heck of a fisherman.


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## acklac7

Muddy said:


> That’s too bad. He was a heck of a fisherman.


One of the best. Like I said, one of the best Saugeye guys I know, he lived to fish for them. In the thousands of hours we spent on the River I think I only outfished him once or twice.

If you ever see him panhandling, chat him up. To this day he’s still a great guy. Just...broken.


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