# Instant Justice, Part II



## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Remember this thread? As Paul Harvey says, here's the rest of the story...

"Ohio man avoids jail in burglar's death 


ATHENS, Ohio (AP) -- A man who fatally shot a burglar as he was running away from a southeast Ohio home won't be going to prison.

Prosecutors said Randy Richmond fired his .22-caliber rifle three times as neighbor Keith "P.J." Rutter fled into the woods after breaking into Richmond's mother-in-law's home June 20 in the Athens County town of Glouster.

The 39-year-old Richmond pleaded no contest Tuesday to reckless homicide and negligent homicide in the death of the 33-year-old Rutter, who was known to use drugs and burglarize homes in the area.

With the agreement of Rutter's mother, Richmond was given no prison time. He'll be in a diversion program for three years that requires monthly reporting. He also must perform 60 hours of community service and pay $1,000 toward Rutter's funeral.


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

yes! i knew hed get zero jail time


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## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

Workdog said:


> With the agreement of Rutter's mother, Richmond was given no prison time. .


Wow. that says alot about a persons character when their own mother doesnt even want to press charges. I have an uncle that would fall into this catagorey...


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Very surprised at the outcome. Gotta feel sorry for the Mother that thinks so little of her son.


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

City fisher said:


> I have an uncle that would fall into this catagorey...


i think we all do...its so unfortunate


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

well, I'll be damned. never saw that coming. I'm not sure if I'm happy about the outcome or not, but I sure am surprised that he got off the hook. even more suprising is that even his (criminal/victim) own mom approved. must have meant he either was a serious prick to his parents or they didn't approve of his illegal activity.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

That is surprising. We had a similar case here recently. A homeowner shot a man, a career criminal, while he was breaking into his house. The would-be thief took off and collapsed across the street. When the police arrived the homeowner walked out and told them he had shot the man while he was breaking into his house. If I remember right, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison a couple weeks ago.


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

bobk said:


> Very surprised at the outcome. Gotta feel sorry for the Mother that thinks so little of her son.


Maybe the mother actually has her eyes open and saw her son for what he was. Anyone that makes the choices this guy made will either end up in prison or dead. I get so sick of people saying "(insert random scumbag's name) robbed and beat up old ladies but that doesn't make him a bad person. Yeah actually it does!


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

ducman491 said:


> Maybe the mother actually has her eyes open and saw her son for what he was. Anyone that makes the choices this guy made will either end up in prison or dead. I get so sick of people saying "(insert random scumbag's name) robbed and beat up old ladies but that doesn't make him a bad person. Yeah actually it does!


Did I say anything about the guy not being a bad person? Calm down.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

bobk said:


> Did I say anything about the guy not being a bad person? Calm down.


doesnt seem like he meant anything towards you. I just think he got slightly sidetracked. he is right though.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

City fisher said:


> Wow. that says alot about a persons character when their own mother doesnt even want to press charges. I have an uncle that would fall into this catagorey...


He was charged and convicted.

Looks like she was able to weigh in on the sentencing. I'm guessing it was more compassion for the man and his family than disdain for her son. No amount of jailtime is going to bring her son back, and he brought it upon himself. Mothers Rarely give up on their children regardless of the circumstance.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/07/23/Athens-County-shooting-sentence.html
From the dispatch article:


> By his mother&#8217;s account, Keith &#8220;P.J.&#8221; Rutter also was a good man, but one who did bad things to buy drugs and feed the addiction that controlled him.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

the guy was a skumbag, its very obvious to me from the first thread. but I am really surprised the shooter didn't get any prison time, poor mothers request or not.. c'mon, the guy was running away and the shooter took pot shots at him, hit him and killed him. reckless homicide at the least.. IMO


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

ezbite said:


> the guy was a skumbag, its very obvious to me from the first thread. but I am really surprised the shooter didn't get any prison time, poor mothers request or not.. c'mon, the guy was running away and the shooter took pot shots at him, hit him and killed him. reckless homicide at the least.. IMO


Thats exactly what he was charged and convicted with according to the article. So he's now a convicted felon, not allowed to own guns, just won't be doing hard time.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/07/23/Athens-County-shooting-sentence.html



> Richmond, 39, of Glouster, pleaded no contest yesterday to reckless homicide and negligent homicide in the death of Rutter, 33, who also lived along Taylor Ridge Road.





> With the agreement of Rutter&#8217;s mother, Richmond was given no prison time. He&#8217;ll be in a diversion program for three years that requires monthly reporting. He also must perform 60 hours of community service and pay $1,000 toward Rutter&#8217;s funeral.


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

bobk said:


> Did I say anything about the guy not being a bad person? Calm down.


Sorry Bobk, didn't mean to imply that you were standing up for the guy. Anymore people are so quick to make excuses for criminals, poor family, bad economy,etc. It's a bit refreshing to see someone actually take resposibility and say, eventually his lifestyle was going to catch up with him. Your comment made it sound like his mother didnt care about him. More likely is that she is exhausted with caring for him and just wants to be done with it. 

Nothing personal.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Thats exactly what he was charged and convicted with according to the article. So he's now a convicted felon, not allowed to own guns, just won't be doing hard time.
> 
> http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/07/23/Athens-County-shooting-sentence.html


youre correct, my bad, guess theres was a fog in my brain when I replied because I cant understand how you can kill a man that was running away from you and not go to prison  ok, so hes been convicted and cant own guns, hahaha that's a joke in itself... I guess its ok because he just wont be doing hard time...


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

ezbite said:


> youre correct, my bad, guess theres was a fog in my brain when I replied because I cant understand how you can kill a man that was running away from you and not go to prison  ok, so hes been convicted and cant own guns, hahaha that's a joke in itself... I guess its ok because he just wont be doing hard time...


Np. It definitely sets a few dangerous precedents..


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> He was charged and convicted.
> 
> Looks like she was able to weigh in on the sentencing. I'm guessing it was more compassion for the man and his family than disdain for her son. No amount of jailtime is going to bring her son back, and he brought it upon himself. Mothers Rarely give up on their children regardless of the circumstance.
> 
> ...


you don't really believe this do you? you honestly think this guys mom felt sorry for the guy who shot her son and that's why she didn't have a problem with the sentencing?

its amazing to me that after seeing this news you are still holding out that this guy wasn't a dirt bag... and the world isn't a better place without him in it.... 

even his own mother wouldn't stick up for him and you are still giving him the benefit of the doubt...

justice was served, the shooter did society a favor and he was sentenced appropriately, even by the "victims" own mothers standards...


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

lordofthepunks said:


> you don't really believe this do you? you honestly think this guys mom felt sorry for the guy who shot her son and that's why she didn't have a problem with the sentencing?
> 
> its amazing to me that after seeing this news you are still holding out that this guy wasn't a dirt bag... and the world isn't a better place without him in it....
> 
> ...


Read the article. Its fairly common for the family of people involved in a case like this to end up associating with those left in the wake, forgiving them, and in some cases maintaining a close relationship with. They are all in it together at that point. I'm not saying it always works out like that but it can. From the article, she sounded like a reasonable woman. She knows her son wasn't doing the right thing and brought this upon himself, although she references drug use and his inability to get into rehab.. She states pretty clearly how she felt. Call her a liar if you must..




> By his mother&#8217;s account, Keith &#8220;P.J.&#8221; Rutter also was a good man, but one who did bad things to buy drugs and feed the addiction that controlled him.





> Rutter&#8217;s mother, Nannette Justus, wrote in a statement read in court that she tried to get her son help for his drug addiction, but the father of two was twice turned away recently because of a lack of room at rehabilitation centers.
> 
> &#8220;I would like to apologize to the public for what my son has done to anyone,&#8221; she wrote, &#8220;but have respect for me because I was his mother and I have lost part of my heart.&#8221;


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Read the article. She states pretty clearly how she felt. Call her a liar if you must..


I just find it interesting that you were the only person in "part 1" sticking up for this guy... now you are somehow trying to save face again by taking this stance...

actions speak louder then words.... she can say whatever is politically correct but her actions or lack there of speak far louder... I would bet my farm and yours too that inside, she is relieved that she will no longer have to worry about her dirtbag son causing strife ever again... that's not something you tell the world....


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

lordofthepunks said:


> I just find it interesting that you were the only person in "part 1" sticking up for this guy... now you are somehow trying to save face again by taking this stance...
> 
> actions speak louder then words.... she can say whatever is politically correct but her actions or lack there of speak far louder... I would bet my farm and yours too that inside, she is relieved that she will no longer have to worry about her dirtbag son causing strife ever again... that's not something you tell the world....


I'm saving face? I just wanted to make sure it went before a judge.

Listen bud, I was sticking up for not shooting someone in the back running away and I wasn't(and still not) alone thanks  Especially a petty thief. If you want to say the death penalty should apply to any crime then be my guest, and any goof is allowed to prescribe his version of "justice", then I don't know what to tell you. Thats about as UNAMERICAN as it comes. There I said it. Our system is the JUSTICE system, not some vigilante justice system where you get a hunch and just go gunning.

Ever heard of unconditional love? I know you are wrong but its ok. You are entitled


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> justice was served.


boy youre way off there...


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

Instant justice... I said it before and I'll say it again.

I am the last person to promote violence. And I do not suggest all problems can be resolved with smoke commin' out the end of the barrel of a gun. Hell, my family has suffered the affects of a murdering American. 
But in this case. At this time. Instant justice was served.


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

jignpig guide said:


> instant justice... I said it before and i'll say it again.
> 
> I am the last person to promote violence. And i do not suggest all problems can be resolved with smoke commin' out the end of the barrel of a gun. Hell, my family has suffered the affects of a murdering american.
> But in this case. At this time. Instant justice was served.


+1...........


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that with this case, the other big one, and a couple other stand your ground rulings and Castle rulings...criminals may start having second thoughts about what they're doing!
Welcome criminals....to a world of fed up and pissed off people that are fighting back...and they're gonna shoot to kill!


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I'm saving face? I just wanted to make sure it went before a judge.
> 
> Listen bud, I was sticking up for not shooting someone in the back running away and I wasn't(and still not) alone thanks  Especially a petty thief. If you want to say the death penalty should apply to any crime then be my guest, and any goof is allowed to prescribe his version of "justice", then I don't know what to tell you. Thats about as UNAMERICAN as it comes. There I said it. Our system is the JUSTICE system, not some vigilante justice system where you get a hunch and just go gunning.
> 
> Ever heard of unconditional love? I know you are wrong but its ok. You are entitled


what am I wrong about? I agree with the courts decision... so did the mother...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

and I also happen to think "petty thieves" are the scum of the earth... if you happen to get shot while in the act, I have no sympathy for you...


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## lunker4141 (Apr 19, 2010)

lordofthepunks said:


> and I also happen to think "petty thieves" are the scum of the earth... if you happen to get shot while in the act, I have no sympathy for you...


Can I get an AMEN!!!!

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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> and I also happen to think "petty thieves" are the scum of the earth... if you happen to get shot while in the act, I have no sympathy for you...


but not while running away in the woods, in my house... that's a different story..


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

ezbite said:


> but not while running away in the woods, in my house... that's a different story..


im not saying it should be legal, im not saying that the death penalty should be evoked, im not saying anyones opinion is wrong... all im saying is the world is not going to miss this guy and considering the circumstances, the punishment was fair...

just happy that circumstances played a part in the courts decision instead of... "well, you killed someone, it doesn't matter what they were doing or why you did it, the book says you have to go to prison for x amount of years so that's what youre getting"


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## CATMAN447 (Jun 12, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I'm saving face? I just wanted to make sure it went before a judge.
> 
> Listen bud, I was sticking up for not shooting someone in the back running away and I wasn't(and still not) alone thanks  Especially a petty thief. If you want to say the death penalty should apply to any crime then be my guest, and any goof is allowed to prescribe his version of "justice", then I don't know what to tell you. Thats about as UNAMERICAN as it comes. There I said it. Our system is the JUSTICE system, not some vigilante justice system where you get a hunch and just go gunning.
> 
> Ever heard of unconditional love? I know you are wrong but its ok. You are entitled


Wow, I think I might just quit my job so I too can make condescending posts on OGF ALL. DAY. LONG. EVERY. DAY.


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## lunker4141 (Apr 19, 2010)

ezbite said:


> but not while running away in the woods, in my house... that's a different story..


Agreed and it all depends on what they may have done while in the house. If they hurt my family or dog while in the house and I saw them running away after seeing what they did who knows what I would do.

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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

lordofthepunks said:


> what am I wrong about? I agree with the courts decision... so did the mother...


So do I. That's justice.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

With the cost of funerals, I'm surprised he only had to pay $1000. Must not had a grave with a gravestone nor much of anything else.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

CATMAN447 said:


> Wow, I think I might just quit my job so I too can make condescending posts on OGF ALL. DAY. LONG. EVERY. DAY.


Quit your job?
What makes you think I was being condescending? I think he was wrong when saying the guys mother was relieved he's dead and i told him so. Big deal dude. I'm a big dumb meanie, yeah I get it. :rolls eyes:


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Quit your job?
> What makes you think I was being condescending? I think he was wrong when saying the guys mother was relieved he's dead and i told him so. Big deal dude. I'm a big dumb meanie, yeah I get it. :rolls eyes:


actually you said " I know you are wrong but its ok" so get your own facts straight if you are going to argue on a forum!


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

big events said:


> yes! i knew hed get zero jail time


Actually, according to the Athens Messenger, he got 5 years suspended on the contingency that he complete the diversion program.

Edit:
The plea is being held in abeyance, and if Richmond completes the three-year diversion program the criminal case will be terminated. If he fails to live up to the conditions of the plea bargain, he could face up to five years in prison.

http://www.athensohiotoday.com/news...cle_e6d97db4-7875-586e-9cdd-8a8058c19d95.html


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## dmills4124 (Apr 9, 2008)

Hey EZBITE....DITTO DITTO DITTO.
I am surprised that the outcome was so light. I have been faced with the shoot dont shoot many times in the real world and the law changes its view as soon as the guy turns and runs away. Its called absence of threat. The bad guy is running away not running away shooting back at the guy, just running way reducing the threat of harm or threat to anyones life. At that point lower the gun and continue to tell the 911 operator all about it. 
JMTCW
donm


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## vc1111 (Apr 13, 2004)

I dread the idea of "fed up and pissed off" groups or individuals making life or death decisions in our streets, our courts, or in systems of legislation.

That is the very definition of a double edged sword and inevitably leads to undesirable results for all in the end.


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

I Fish said:


> Actually, according to the Athens Messenger, he got 5 years suspended on the contingency that he complete the diversion program.
> 
> Edit:
> The plea is being held in abeyance, and if Richmond completes the three-year diversion program the criminal case will be terminated. If he fails to live up to the conditions of the plea bargain, he could face up to five years in prison.
> ...


ok, but he controls his own destiny.


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## chevyjay (Oct 6, 2012)

you don't hear much from that part of the state that often. i went to school a few minutes from glouster and it was pretty much a quiet little place. with the lack of employment(no major industry) i'm surprised there isn't more crime down there. a lot of there people down there own guns and hunt to supplement their other food. people you'd think would think twice before breaking into someone's house.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

chevyjay said:


> you don't hear much from that part of the state that often. i went to school a few minutes from glouster and it was pretty much a quiet little place. with the lack of employment(no major industry) i'm surprised there isn't more crime down there. a lot of there people down there own guns and hunt to supplement their other food. people you'd think would think twice before breaking into someone's house.


Crime is up, it's just not being recorded, as per the sheriff's policies. A huge drug problem has blossomed. Couple that with the law enforcement, or rather, lack of. Consider the deceased in this matter. The Sheriff called him a person of interest in several robberies. Wouldn't you think, if, after a string of thefts, if you had a person of interest, wouldn't a competent law enforcement officer be checking the local pawn shops for items pawned in the name of said person of interest? Maybe get a search warrant for their house? Nope, not in this case. Instead, they left him roaming free, and not until after he was killed, while committing more of the same crimes, did they decide to check the pawn shops and search his house. It is as if it was OK to the sheriff that he was robbing people, and now, we are going to prove it in order to help defend the guy that killed him. It's a double edged sword, as that now, they have actually solved several burglaries, but, the perpetrator is dead, and, an otherwise innocent man is faced with the consequences.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Well said.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

I Fish said:


> Crime is up, it's just not being recorded, as per the sheriff's policies. A huge drug problem has blossomed. Couple that with the law enforcement, or rather, lack of. Consider the deceased in this matter. The Sheriff called him a person of interest in several robberies. Wouldn't you think, if, after a string of thefts, if you had a person of interest, wouldn't a competent law enforcement officer be checking the local pawn shops for items pawned in the name of said person of interest? Maybe get a search warrant for their house? Nope, not in this case. Instead, they left him roaming free, and not until after he was killed, while committing more of the same crimes, did they decide to check the pawn shops and search his house. It is as if it was OK to the sheriff that he was robbing people, and now, we are going to prove it in order to help defend the guy that killed him. It's a double edged sword, as that now, they have actually solved several burglaries, but, the perpetrator is dead, and, an otherwise innocent man is faced with the consequences.


good point. sounds like incompetence on the laws side. seems like they ignored the problem until it got worse and eventually someone took it into their own hands and killed him. hope they learn something from this incident. if not, oh well. looks like the civilians are going to have to stick up for themsleves since the police is obviously not doing anything right.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape. 
&#8213; Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson. What a hack!


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## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

As an Athens County resident and a resident from just outside Glouster, don't be surprised if You see more stories like this from down here.. Our Sherrif and prosecutor are to busy fighting with each other of petty stuff , so. We are taking our town and our county back!!!!


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

RiverWader said:


> As an Athens County resident and a resident from just outside Glouster, don't be surprised if You see more stories like this from down here.. Our Sherrif and prosecutor are to busy fighting with each other of petty stuff , so. We are taking our town and our county back!!!!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


 Athens County? Seriously? Let this be a notice to all the weed farmers and other scum of the earth I guess! Be careful.. Those meth labs are usually armed..


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

RiverWader said:


> As an Athens County resident and a resident from just outside Glouster, don't be surprised if You see more stories like this from down here.. Our Sherrif and prosecutor are to busy fighting with each other of petty stuff , so. We are taking our town and our county back!!


It's more than that. You aware of the cemetery thefts? The County Commissioners weren't. They are now, as well as a bunch of other things. Kelley's done nothing for 1 1/2 years about it. The "sheriff" had a policy in place, that each deputy "cleared" their books every Sunday, meaning, according to the computer, nothing was left unresolved. Guess what? The bloods on Kelley this time, and, others as I think we'll see.

I'm on the prosecutors side, here. Kelley's plead guilty in a charge of perjury, which was reduced to a misdemeanor charge of, I believe, obstruction of justice. He is not a veteran, as he likes to assert, he was a contractor in Iraq, during Iraqi Freedom.

A friend of mine sat on the jury that found Capt. Cooper guilty of passing bad checks, only to have the "judge" throw it out, even after a guilty verdict by the jury. No explanation, just dismissed it.

I wonder why all the crime/drugs anymore? You've heard of foxes guarding the hen house? Of course, if it keeps going more public, bigger elements will move in. I just wish BCI would step up the pace, and cut this things head off. 

Remember, it's not the Prosecutor's job to arrest people, and bring them to trial. That is the Sheriffs job. If the Sheriff doesn't arrest them, and, properly investigate the crime, the Prosecutor cannot charge them. If the sheriff arrests them, but doesn't properly investigate, again, the prosecutor cannot press charges on them. In the above, the prosecutor called for a special prosecutor to press the charges against the Sheriff, and, his deputy. I doubt he did that just for fun.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Athens County? Seriously? Let this be a notice to all the weed farmers and other scum of the earth I guess! Be careful.. Those meth labs are usually armed..


That's not funny. There's more money in Meth, so, there are few weed farmers anymore. We have a very real problem here. People don't know how to handle being robbed, so, it looks as though they resolved to just kill them. We have a lot of caves, abandoned mines/wells, ponds, strip pits, not to mention lakes and the rivers. You know, when I was younger, I heard Johnny Carson give a monolog about a lot of things. One that stuck with me was about murdering people, and, if you wanted to get away with it, do it in Athens County, Ohio, were the unsolved murder rate was like 75%. I'm just guessing here, but, I'd say someone here must know how to dispose of a body.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

I Fish said:


> That's not funny. There's more money in Meth, so, there are few weed farmers anymore. We have a very real problem here. People don't know how to handle being robbed, so, it looks as though they resolved to just kill them. We have a lot of caves, abandoned mines/wells. You know, when I was younger, I heard Johnny Carson give a monolog about a lot of things. One that stuck with me was about murdering people, and, if you wanted to get away with it, do it in Athens County, Ohio, were the unsolved murder rate was like 75%. I'm just guessing here, but, I'd say someone here must know how to dispose of a body.


I wasn't kidding. I know its a big issue. Just saying Don't be a hero! Call the cops for crying out loud. Not you but.. The more I hear about it, the more glad I am that I don't live there.


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## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

Yes I was aware of the cemetery thefts , it's been going on we'll before Kelly got in office


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

stealing from the dead? thats just going WAY too low. thats whats going on, right?


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> stealing from the dead? thats just going WAY too low. thats whats going on, right?


Open season on the cemetary thieves? That is pretty low... Or is it? They are dead, what do they care? Eek!


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## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

Yes stealing from the dead, taking stuff of tombstones like metal or crafts 

In the past few years We've had churches with numerous central air units stolen also


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> stealing from the dead? thats just going WAY too low. thats whats going on, right?


Yea, but, what makes it even lower is it's the dead Veterans. 

It only happened once in our area before Kelley. Since Kelley, it's happened 6 or 7 times.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

ducman491 said:


> Sorry Bobk, didn't mean to imply that you were standing up for the guy. Anymore people are so quick to make excuses for criminals, poor family, bad economy,etc. It's a bit refreshing to see someone actually take resposibility and say, eventually his lifestyle was going to catch up with him. Your comment made it sound like his mother didnt care about him. More likely is that she is exhausted with caring for him and just wants to be done with it.
> 
> Nothing personal.


All good here. I don't always type what I'm expressing. I feel bad for the Mom was my point. I'm sure she didn't want her own child to turn out the way he did.


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## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

I Fish, what area are You from??


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> and I also happen to think "petty thieves" are the scum of the earth... if you happen to get shot while in the act, I have no sympathy for you...


I agree. If there are no consequences, there is no deterrent. 

I have no sympathy.


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## c.stewart (Apr 11, 2012)

Amen to that;this guy should have been given an award.He should not be getting a criminal record and should have no probation or stupid program.He killed a freaking criminal that had just tried to rob his mothers home!


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## kickinbass (May 25, 2009)

If someone wants to do drugs or rob people I prefer them all end up this way. Nothing but a menace to society. Anyone shooting the person that just robbed them should be immune to penalty. Good riddance, I feel sorry for the fella having to pay money and be punished other wise for this.


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## chevyjay (Oct 6, 2012)

are there that many pawn shops down there? there was one in nelsonville and i'm guessing at least one in athens. that cemetery in doanville would be easy pickings for thieves. as far as meth labs, there are enough backroads and out of the way places for thousands for them. they wouldn't be found until they blow up, then that may not even draw attention.


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## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

A few pawn shops in Athens, a couple in Nelsonville,one in Logan.


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## Buzzking (Feb 15, 2013)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Open season on the cemetary thieves? That is pretty low... Or is it? They are dead, what do they care? Eek!


Load the gun for those 'petty' thieves! I smell someone being synnical!

I kinda like the double edge sword, because I don't act like a criminal nor commit crimes. Seems like those who walk the line aren't as at ease with 'thier' sword.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

RiverWader said:


> A few pawn shops in Athens,


I only know of one, Ohio Valley. Are there more?


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Buzzking said:


> Load the gun for those 'petty' thieves! I smell someone being synnical!
> 
> I kinda like the double edge sword, because I don't act like a criminal nor commit crimes. Seems like those who walk the line aren't as at ease with 'thier' sword.


Do you not believe that people are sometimes falsely accused? I say you stole something from me so we're supposed to shoot you then right? What if I cross my heart and hope to die? You are dead, sorry about your luck I guess! 

I'm not saying in this case he was falsely accused, he wasn't, but cmon man. Thats why we can't go shooting everyone we think are doing something wrong. You poaching bass from my pond could be considered theft right? Where do you draw the line?


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## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

It's actually in Chauncey, a guy buys Gold, silver, Diamonds but He's been know to let people pawn things


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Do you not believe that people are sometimes falsely accused? I say you stole something from me so we're supposed to shoot you then right? What if I cross my heart and hope to die? You are dead, sorry about your luck I guess!
> 
> *I'm not saying in this case he was falsely accused, he wasn't*, but cmon man. Thats why we can't go shooting everyone we think are doing something wrong. You poaching bass from my pond could be considered theft right? Where do you draw the line?


You are talking about 2 different things here.
#1 *he was caught in the act*
#2 he wasn't just being accused of doing something, he was there doing it

So let's say he just keeps getting away with it and he becomes bolder and bolder. The next time he breaks into your house and your wife is home alone or your teen age daughter is home alone. Probably not a good scenario with no good ending. 
Granted it sucks he had to die but he made his choice as to the life he wanted to live. It wasn't a good choice.


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

crappiedude said:


> You are talking about 2 different things here.
> #1 *he was caught in the act*
> #2 he wasn't just being accused of doing something, he was there doing it
> 
> ...


the guy knew that when he started bangin, he could possibly get got...and he got got! That's all there is to it.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

crappiedude said:


> You are talking about 2 different things here.
> #1 *he was caught in the act*
> #2 he wasn't just being accused of doing something, he was there doing it
> 
> ...


I'm speaking to the "you steal, you die" crowd specifically. They make it sound so simple and easy. You steal, you die. So it's "I see you stealing, you deserve to die"? Why should it matter if you get caught in the act vs caught after the act? Stealing is stealing. No?


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## Papi (Jun 21, 2013)

If every thing they said the man was doing (stealing,breaking in ,ect)thats one thing.But who proved he was? Posing no threat to anyone at the time ?No! Killing someone for stealing without doing bodily harm is Bull. And the Sheriff over there is more likely to steal from you than this guy.And who was it that caught him stealing? Oh! the guy that shot him going away.Kiling a man thats not doing or thats about to do bodly harm is wrong.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I'm speaking to the "you steal, you die" crowd specifically. They make it sound so simple and easy. You steal, you die. So it's "I see you stealing, you deserve to die"? *Why should it matter if you get caught in the act vs caught after the act*? Stealing is stealing. No?


It certainly would have people think twice about stealing.....especially breaking into someone's home.

But I was referring to your comment in post 64, being caught stealing and being accused of stealing is vastly different.

Just the act of stealing something (like shoplifting) is one thing but breaking into someone's home, that a whole different level. I'm not the judge nor executioner but I really have no sympathy for the guy who got shot and I'm not going to condemn the guy who shot him. 
I really have a harder time believing people are so willing to tolerate his actions. The guy (shooter) probably saved a lot of people a lot of grief and the taxpayers a bunch of money.
I'm still curious as to how you would feel if the same guy broke in to your home with your wife or a young daughter alone at home.


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## kickinbass (May 25, 2009)

No matter how we slice this I think we can all agree the world is a better place with one less thief.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

crappiedude said:


> I'm still curious as to how you would feel if the same guy broke in to your home with your wife or a young daughter alone at home.


That brings back pretty bad memories. Lot of frustration, lot of anger. Helplessness. Fact he went to jail for a long time did nothing to ease the above feelings. If I were to find out that he died, there would still be memories and the horror of what she had to go through. I dont see how the death sentence presents closure. I can never ever forget it. It is something we dont talk about, so I really dont know how she feels about it. For some reason, I was not allowed in the court room. The court building for that matter. Considering, my wife,(then girlfriend) was lucky. the next day he broke into another home and broke the ladys jaw. amongst other things. Man I hope I dont have night mares over this. You would think after thirty years you could let it go.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

When my kids were little they had a friend who had just turned 13. A very nice young girl. A family friend of hers had asked her to baby sit. Unfortunately for her she said yes. The house she was staying at was broken into & robbed and she was raped. She was a victim of opportunity.
As far as I'm concerned if you break into someone's home, you crossed a very big line. This time you only stole something. What about the next time? The guy was your typical career criminal. Society is better off with out him.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

crappiedude said:


> When my kids were little they had a friend who had just turned 13. A very nice young girl. A family friend of hers had asked her to baby sit. Unfortunately for her she said yes. The house she was staying at was broken into & robbed and she was raped. She was a victim of opportunity.
> As far as I'm concerned if you break into someone's home, you crossed a very big line. This time you only stole something. What about the next time? The guy was your typical career criminal. Society is better off with out him.


but we should just keep letting it happen until a worst case scenario arises...

I find it utterly insane that people are still taking up for this guy... one guy in this forum actually said the its more likely that the sheriff would steal from you than the loser who "got got" 

a JUDGE, for once, made the right decision based on the evidence and common sense was used to determine the penalty...

people that commit these sort of crimes are nothing but strains on society... there is absolutely no reason to cry for this man... he got what he deserved...


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> people that commit these sort of crimes are nothing but strains on society... *there is absolutely no reason to cry for this man*... he got what he deserved...


Yep, the guy did his neighbors a favor. 
How any of this is the sheriff's fault is beyond me. 
To the bleeding hearts, why don't you go to the prisons and upon release welcome these guys in to your home and into your lives; the rest of us don't want them.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Just because you're " fed up" and "tired" with someone... Does not give you the power or authority to kil them.... The ONLY reason for that is to defend your life when its in DANGER.... The shooter didn't do that...he's an idiot and should be in prison.


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

9Left said:


> The shooter didn't do that...he's an idiot and should be in prison.


thankfully hes not


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

You break into my house while I am home, you are dead. Period. I don't care if you have a shovel in your hand, an umbrella, or nothing. Your home is your only place of security from the outside world. For those of you who have never had that experience, you have no idea how that effects you and your family. That's the problem with our country today. Too many people with opinions on something they have never experienced.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Streamhawk said:


> You break into my house while I am home, you are dead. Period. I don't care if you have a shovel in your hand, an umbrella, or nothing. Your home is your only place of security from the outside world. For those of you who have never had that experience, you have no idea how that effects you and your family. That's the problem with our country today. Too many people with opinions on something they have never experienced.


Wel..we've had the experience to read the whole thread....and there was no shootingout of self defense or fear.. At least read it before you type dude


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

If someone is stealing cancer medication. It is a threat to human life. And very well could be construed as life threatening to all family and friend affected by the threat. If a thief threatens your life. It would place you into a self defense status.
Maybe your daughter, mother, brother, father, or friend may need medicine to prolong their life. If I take/steel it... I have threatened their life.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

JignPig Guide said:


> If someone is stealing cancer medication. It is a threat to human life. And very well could be construed as life threatening to all family and friend affected by the threat. If a thief threatens your life. It would place you into a self defense status.
> Maybe your daughter, mother, brother, father, or friend may need medicine to prolong their life. If I take/steel it... I have threatened their life.


 So if your mother in laws neighbors drugs get stolen, you are justified in shooting him dead. Check. The mental gymnastics involved in using that scenario to justify a homicide are impressive. We're probably talking about pain meds here.. Last I knew it wasn't en vogue to pop radiation treatments on the hizzy. Maybe thats what all the cool kids are doing, but something tells me we're talking about Oxycontin here.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

crappiedude said:


> It certainly would have people think twice about stealing.....especially breaking into someone's home.
> 
> But I was referring to your comment in post 64, being caught stealing and being accused of stealing is vastly different.
> 
> ...


Thats the thing. No one is tolerating the thiefs actions. There is a prescribed way to deal with these types of things. In this case, a neighbor shooting him is what we are having an issue with. I'm all for the castle doctrine. A mans home is his castle. Someone breaks in on me and I have my gun sitting there, they are getting shot. If I see someone breaking into my neighbors house, I'm calling the cops.

So whoever it is that has gotten into my cars several times outside my house stealing change or boots or whatever... Instead of setting up a camera to catch them, or calling the cops etc, I should just lay in wait and snipe them? Is that what you are telling me?


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

ezbite said:


> ...c'mon, the guy was running away and the shooter took pot shots at him, hit him and killed him. reckless homicide at the least.. IMO


I agree. I hope this message is long enough!


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Instead of setting up a camera to catch them, or calling the cops etc, *I should just lay in wait and snipe them? Is that what you are telling me?*


Not really but the guy who raped the 13 year old he started small too. He had multiple arrests, as he got older he got bolder and more confident. Most violent criminals start small and work their way up to bigger and crazier things. It sure would have been nice if someone shot that POS a few crimes earlier. 

You know I had a little crack head who used to steal my change from my truck every couple of weeks. He was very neat, he never broke windows or left the truck a mess. He always waited until the door was unlocked. It was kind of funny he never took pennies, just the silver coins. I saw him a few times, he was a skinny little guy and he'd run off. I had no desire to hurt the guy and I never called the cops. Heck I always made sure to replace the change, he looked like he needed a meal. If the guy would started breaking into homes and got shot, I wouldn't blame the shooter one bit. 

The real conversation is the guy did the world a favor. It's probably not something he wanted to do, he just stepped up to the task at hand and did what needed to be done.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

Crappiedude, this is how/why the sheriff is to blame:




I Fish said:


> Crime is up, it's just not being recorded, as per the sheriff's policies. A huge drug problem has blossomed. Couple that with the law enforcement, or rather, lack of. Consider the deceased in this matter. The Sheriff called him a person of interest in several robberies. Wouldn't you think, if, after a string of thefts, if you had a person of interest, wouldn't a competent law enforcement officer be checking the local pawn shops for items pawned in the name of said person of interest? Maybe get a search warrant for their house? Nope, not in this case. Instead, they left him roaming free, and not until after he was killed, while committing more of the same crimes, did they decide to check the pawn shops and search his house. It is as if it was OK to the sheriff that he was robbing people, and now, we are going to prove it in order to help defend the guy that killed him. It's a double edged sword, as that now, they have actually solved several burglaries, but, the perpetrator is dead, and, an otherwise innocent man is faced with the consequences.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

crappiedude said:


> Not really but the guy who raped the 13 year old he started small too. He had multiple arrests, as he got older he got bolder and more confident. Most violent criminals start small and work their way up to bigger and crazier things. It sure would have been nice if someone shot that POS a few crimes earlier.
> 
> You know I had a little crack head who used to steal my change from my truck every couple of weeks. He was very neat, he never broke windows or left the truck a mess. He always waited until the door was unlocked. It was kind of funny he never took pennies, just the silver coins. I saw him a few times, he was a skinny little guy and he'd run off. I had no desire to hurt the guy and I never called the cops. Heck I always made sure to replace the change, he looked like he needed a meal. If the guy would started breaking into homes and got shot, I wouldn't blame the shooter one bit.
> 
> The real conversation is the guy did the world a favor. It's probably not something he wanted to do, he just stepped up to the task at hand and did what needed to be done.


I don't see how there can be a difference between my car and house actually. According to some states castle doctrine, there isn't a difference. These guys are advocating any thief be shot dead from what I can gather. They've obviously never stole anything, and if you feel any compassion you must be a thief yourself! Lol!

I've never heard this guy was a career criminal, only he was suspected in a couple(2?) other local burglaries. Since he was never caught, it doesn't sound like a home invader or anything like that. Not a rapist. Not a kiddie diddler. He sounded like a drug addict with no prior criminal record. 

Did the world a favor? Who's gonna take care of his two kids now for one.. Who are we to say there was no chance of this guy recovering and being a contributing member of society.. No prior record? That's just not our call to make. Did the world a favor... No priors drug addict shot and killed for entering an unoccupied house. He didn't even take anything.. Did the world a favor.. Wow.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> *....and if you feel any compassion you must be a thief yourself!*
> 
> *Who's gonna take care of his two kids now for one*.. Who are we to say there was no chance of this guy recovering and being a contributing member of society.. No prior record? That's just not our call to make. Did the world a favor... No priors drug addict shot and killed for entering an unoccupied house. He didn't even take anything.. Did the world a favor.. Wow.


I see....I don't agree with you so the name calling starts (I'm a thief) now that's classy. You have no idea who I am.

You bring up his kids, he sounds like a stand up guy. Those little skinny books you read as a kid....those are called fairy tails. I hate to break it to you but they really didn't happen.
We're done.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

The mere notion that this guy would've ever became a productive member of society is pretty laughable.I don't believe the guy needed to be shot considering the situation at the time,but you have to believe in this day and age it was inevitable.Even though I believe the shooter's actions were wrong,I have to commend him for ridding the world of this parasite.As far as the scumbags kids,if he really cared for them,he would've been working to support them,the only thing he cared about supporting was his own drug habit.It's very hard for me to feel pity for a drug addict and a thief-it's impossible for me to feel pity for a drug addict and thief that has children.Lastly,as far as this criminal not having a police record,ever hear of Meyer Lansky? He was one of the biggest mobsters of all time(and richest),know what he had on his police record? Not one thing,so what does that prove?


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## CATMAN447 (Jun 12, 2011)

This fine, Young man was probably well on his way to becoming a pillar of society. I'm sure that this B&E was going to be his last one before he changed his ways and started volunteering at the old folks home and humane society.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

I'd say his kids are better off having learned the lesson that being a lowlife, white trash, thieving crackhead is a bad life choice...


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## Buzzking (Feb 15, 2013)

lordofthepunks said:


> I'd say his kids are better off having learned the lesson that being a lowlife, white trash, thieving crackhead is a bad life choice...


LOTP you're the best! Like I said if you act like a criminal or commit crimes you have got it coming from the law abiding citizens of America.


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## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

He wasn't taking care of His kids while He was alive , His Mon and other family members were.
Also He did have a lengthy record of Drugs and other sorts


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

crappiedude said:


> I see....I don't agree with you so the name calling starts (I'm a thief) now that's classy. You have no idea who I am.
> 
> You bring up his kids, he sounds like a stand up guy. Those little skinny books you read as a kid....those are called fairy tails. I hate to break it to you but they really didn't happen.
> We're done.


So you think you are on the compassionate side of the matter eh? Interesting. I thought that was supposed to be me?

No, the name calling started long ago. I was just re-phrasing. That was Buzzkill earlier in the thread who made the insinuation that I am a shady character because of my opinion on the matter. Pretty neat huh?


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

lordofthepunks said:


> I'd say his kids are better off having learned the lesson that being a lowlife, white trash, thieving crackhead is a bad life choice...


But the lowlife, scum of the earth, white trash, idiot thieving crack head didn't have a criminal record. WEIRD eh?


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

RiverWader said:


> He wasn't taking care of His kids while He was alive , His Mon and other family members were.
> Also He did have a lengthy record of Drugs and other sorts
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Where'd you see that? All I saw was there was a receiving stolen property charge that was dismissed. Nothing else on his record according to the Athens newspaper.


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Where'd you see that? All I saw was there was a receiving stolen property charge that was dismissed. Nothing else on his record according to the Athens newspaper.


damn, too bad he cant fight that from the grave...oh well


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

big events said:


> damn, too bad he cant fight that from the grave...oh well


Fight what? It was dismissed prior to any of these current events. In other words, we're obviously not talking about a career criminal. Aren't career criminals supposed to have criminal records?

You guys are taking way too much pleasure in the death of another human being. Hey Buzzkill, what does THAT say about a person buddy?


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

meh...he got got, end of story...his bad and no ones else's


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

big events said:


> meh...he got got, end of story...his bad and no ones else's


Only problem with that is the shooter has charges pending so.. His bad also. He's got the opportunity to make amends.


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## big events (Jul 19, 2013)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Only problem with that is the shooter has charges pending so.. His bad also. He's got the opportunity to make amends.


all he has to do is keep up his end of the deal to stay out of jail...the mother doesnt want to ruin two lives when all the shooter was doing was protecting his home and family


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

big events said:


> all he has to do is keep up his end of the deal to stay out of jail...the mother doesnt want to ruin two lives when all the shooter was doing was protecting his home and family


Only problem with that is it wasn't the shooters home. Are we even talking about the same story???


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

All has been said that needs to be said...


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