# floating creek thru private property.



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

There is a local creek that I dont know if the landowner did it or the rain did it but the creek now flows thru a huge pond and then back out the other side. The creek doesn't flow around the pond at all. There are no nearby houses to the pond but I am sure it is on private land. I think it is legal to float thru because that is the way the creek flows. But is it also legal to fish the pond. If the creek is flowing in and out of the pond does it mean that it becomes part of the creek. If there was a house I would stop by but there is no house I am thinking it is someones recreational land. Any thoughts?


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## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

I have been in similar situations on the hocking river, as long as the water is a navigable stream, you should be good. The landowner might not agree, and if confronted i would just let him "win" but legally you should be fine. Those ponds are usually dynamite too, worth getting screamed at in my opinion.


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## HookUpFishOn (Apr 29, 2005)

not sure about ponds, but i know if rivers are surrounded by private land, you are allowed to float, but not stand. The landowner owns the river bottom, but not the water..Hope this helps!


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

I have the same idea about this pond. The way I look at it if they are the ones that changed the flow of the creek don't be mad if I am fishing in your pond.


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## LilSiman/Medina (Nov 30, 2010)

Thats pretty cool and you should be fine. They own the land so you cannot anchor to stay there. You have to paddle/row/drive to stay there.


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## Skippy (Dec 2, 2009)

Your post sounds more like your asking the people here on OGF for permission to tresspass. 
I bet that if they owned it there answere would be different. Your going to have to put in on a road somewhere so that in it's self would be tresspassing. You have a conputer so do the right thing and find out who owns it and ask permission.

Sounds more like someone spent there good money to bring in a drag line to clean out a pond.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

Skippy I am putting in in a state park. The creek runs thru the pond. I am completely in my rights to float the creek. There is nothing illegal about floating the creek as long as I dont anchor on private property. The pond is now part of the creek. If I was walking thru the landowners property that would be different and I would be in the wrong. Even if the only access to the pond was during highwater I would say that was wrong to fish the pond. But during normal flow of the creek it enters and exits the pond there is no way around without dragging the kayak around the pond.


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## Dandrews (Oct 10, 2010)

I think I have a good idea of the area that youre talking about; Ive considered floating my canoe there too. I think as long as the stream flows into and out of the pond then the pond is part of the stream.
Heres a couple links you can take a look at. Im not a lawyer so most of this stuff is clear as mud to me. 

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/water/pubs/fs_st/streamfs/tabid/4178/Default.aspx


http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Portals/7/pubs/reports/Principles_of_Water_Rights_Law_in_Ohio_1979.pdf


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Time to eat some humble pie, skip. As others have said, u should be fine if its now part of the stream. Same situations on the scioto and blacklick.

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## GatorB (Jul 24, 2006)

Skippy said:


> Your post sounds more like your asking the people here on OGF for permission to tresspass.
> I bet that if they owned it there answere would be different. Your going to have to put in on a road somewhere so that in it's self would be tresspassing. You have a conputer so do the right thing and find out who owns it and ask permission.
> 
> Sounds more like someone spent there good money to bring in a drag line to clean out a pond.


You can't really accuse the guy of "asking for permission to trespass" if what he's doing isn't illegal and isn't trespassing. If you're the guy that owns the property with the private pond, yeah that may be annoying, but the law is the law. Just because the owner "spent a lot of money" doesn't mean that he should be allowed to thwart the law.


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## CasualFisherman (May 21, 2004)

Common Law dictates that you have a right to navigate streams but it is a grey area as to whether navigation is the only rights you have in Ohio. Early caselaw may indicate additional recreational rights such as fishing but statutes are superior to common law. Since Ohio clearly has passed statutes requiring written permission to hunt and fish on private property, I would say that these statutes superscede any common law interpretation on public use of navigable waterways. Therefore if you are on private lands (You likely are) then by statute (not common law) you are required to obtain written permission to hunt or fish. 

Just my unqualified opinion though.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

The problem is there is no house I think it is rec land otherwise I would ask permission


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## PT-63 (Oct 10, 2011)

I've encountered this situation previously. Regarding both fishing and white water usage. And in Ohio it is permissable to fish the pond ,or pool by boat. But do not set foot on ground or bottom.
Additionaly, if the landowner altered the course of the waterway, they are in trouble. All modifications to existing creeks or rivers must be approved by several different government agencies.Once the pool has been inhabited by wild run fish.It is open to the license holding public.
If the waterway has a fence or gate across it, please report it to D.N.R. as this is a big deal!


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Skippy said:


> I bet that if they owned it there answere would be different.


A creek flows through my land, your welcome to float on through but don't get out. The little dog barks but the big dog bites. 


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## tadluvadd (Feb 19, 2012)

If its private or not,the landowner does not own the water,nor the fish in it.only the land.as long as you dont contact the land under the water or around it,you have the right to be ON the water.like it or not,the RIVER themselves is owned by us.the public and our tax dollars pays for it.ive used this example before,when you fish a state owned lake,you can fish the water from a boat,but cant get out and stand in somones yard and cast into the water.i asked a local game warden about a local river that i fish,as much of it flows through prvt property.he said as long as you dont contact the bottom,it is leagal to fish the waterway.the landowner ownes the land around and beneath the water,but not the water itself.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

"I am thinking it is someones recreational land. Any thoughts? "

*use of navigable waterways* is the key. If the creek is not normally navigable, then there is an issue.

I would stop at the state park office to find out since you think this is on recreational land. And they could confirm the creek as an navigable waterway or not.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

It is a navigable waterway I do know that much. Thanks for all the responses though.


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## Skippy (Dec 2, 2009)

Never said you coulden't fish it!!! If it is a creek your going to touch ground somewhere getting to that pond. 

I'v been there and done that... Before selling out and moving south 100 miles we owned a farm that had the HEAD waters of the Grand river running through it. Even had the old stone foundation of a mill that was once used. Sand bars and trees laying across the river made floating it without touching anything but water impossible. Unless you had wings. 
Well darn near every year there would be people trying to float it. Next thing you know there goes a pickup down the tractor trail to get there canoe out. 
Got old fast... Oh, were not hurting anything. Yea, right!! Put a gate up, Now I have to stop out on the road to open the gate inorder to get to the fields to work crops. That did not stop them. Took a few tresspass tickets to slow it down. 

Now I own that land. I pay taxes on that land plus I needed to carry a 1 million $$$$ doller liability policy in case one of thoes nuts got hurt. So much for MY RIGHTS.

I know I don't own the water or the fish, never said I did. 

Theres a lot of places where one can float for miles and fish or sight see but theres a lot where you can't for one reason or another. Oh yea, in case you diden't know it, in the state of Ohio land does not need to be posted "No Tresspassing". Its up to you to know where your at.

Go ahead and do what you want. Sounds like your going to anyway. Like I said before, It would be different if you owned it. 
Untill you've been there I'll pass on the humble pie.

There, thats my rant


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

I think you are allowed to set foot to portage around an obstacle in a creek or river. I am not 100% sure on that one so if anyone else knows for sure post it up. I also agree with you that driving on someone elses property to put in is trespassing I haven't argued that. But if you are going to own property with a navigable stream on it people have the right to float down it. If a landowner can't handle that then move to the desert. Once again what I am doing is not trespassing so I don't know why your panties are in such a bunch about it.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

I don't believe portage = navigable.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

good point backlashed


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## tadluvadd (Feb 19, 2012)

I understand driving on somones ground to get to a area of the river is obviously tresspassing.so is fishing from the bank or wading.but the question was FLOATING.Ive fished diff.rivers for years,and seen river settings that landowners try to make prvt.if they want a prvt waterway,why not build a pond or lake instead of laying claim to state owned waters?if somone tried to stop me from floating a public waterway,id call the game warden for them.if somone owned river front property and tried to stop people from floating it,it would be like trying to stop folks from driving down a highway just because you owned the ground the road goes through.some folks either dont know waterway rights,or just try to bull people to keep them off sections of the water that is owned by us the tax payer.thats my rant lol.


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## Skippy (Dec 2, 2009)

NEVER had a dead horse to beat but I guess I do NOW.

Read what I said. "I KNOW I DON"T OWN THE WATER!!!!!!!!".


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

I spent an hour last night on odnr's site last night trying to figure it out. Basically navigable from what I read is any waterway that can be used by recreational boaters. It also states that a natural blockage of the waterway doesnt mean that it isn't navigable so I would assume that would mean you are allowed portage around a natrual blockage. A man made blockage is illegal for any landowner to restrict public usage of a waterway. It says the usual that you are allowed to fish, float , or bath. As long as you don't anchor on private property. In all honesty the law is really not that clear and if the state went with the federal law that the riverbed or creek bed was public property it would be much simpler.


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## Mason52 (Aug 21, 2009)

Ohio has some really stupid laws and this is just one of them. Another one is the two rod rule for fishing. I remember the upper Mad use to have an easement ( I think it was 20 ft) for fishing access. That would be nice to have and it would take care of the problem. If they ever do something like that I would also like to see much stiffer penalties for littering as that is IMO the number one reason people don't let people on there river front property now.


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## mbelperio (Apr 4, 2008)

Speaking of the Mad River. I find the fishing there interesting. All the public access points are at the bridges. Fishermen all park their cars there. And yet they wade up and down the stream. The Mad covers a lot of miles and properties and bridges. Yet no one gets hit for trespassing. I guess all those property owners are a leniant group.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

It sounds pretty risky to try. The instant you touch bottom, a branch or blade of grass on the private land you are trespassing. Suppose your bait gets hung up on the bottom.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

I doubt I will try it because the risk vs reward isn't worth it. And I looked thru alot if internet stuff last night and the laws have to much gray area where if something was to happen it would depend on a judge. And I really dont want to pay a trespass ticket. There are too many other places I know I can float without having a problem.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

I bought a house directly across from a baseball field. The field was there when I bought it and I knew going in there would be balls hitting the house and cars along with a people tracking on my property. I can not imagine geting upset at someone for this. Like i said the park was there and I was fully aware before purchasing the house. Same goes for people geting upset at me while I am in my boat fishing around there dock. Did they really think when they bought a house on a lake that there wouldn't be any fishermen.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Mason52 said:


> That's it Mason, or they are chopping down trees, stealing firewood, picking my wife's flowers, throwing rocks at the dog and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## tadluvadd (Feb 19, 2012)

Skippy said:


> NEVER had a dead horse to beat but I guess I do NOW.
> 
> Read what I said. "I KNOW I DON"T OWN THE WATER!!!!!!!!".


i cant speak for everyone else,but my post wasent directed towards you,only giving examples of what would or would not be trespassing for others.lighten up a bit,we are all freinds here.its just a thread,and discussion.


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## Mason52 (Aug 21, 2009)

backlashed said:


> That's it Mason, or they are chopping down trees, stealing firewood, picking my wife's flowers, throwing rocks at the dog and so on.
> 
> If they are cutting down your trees and stealing your firewood & flowers they need to be arrested not ticketed. If I catch someone rockin my dog I might have to get my gun. Also not much of a sportsman if they do that. My motto when fishing on someones property is that I take nothing but memories and leave nothing but footprints. I've picked up more trash on rivers and lakes in Ohio over the years then I care to remember. Other people trashing places has cost me several nice spots to fish over the years


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Yes, you may portage around riffles and logjams in a "reasonable" manner in the state of ohio. No campfires no litter. Only portage.

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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

fishing around docks in a marina from a boat has been in the courts several times -- marina does not own the water, that's why u see bass fishermen in almost all marinas on Lake Erie.


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## !!! trigger happy !!! (Dec 29, 2011)

the landowner owns the land not the water.


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

It's a black rat snake.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

There is supposed to be an albino snapping turtle in the pond


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