# A London Strain - For you young Pups.



## creekcrawler

After Bdawg's old fish post I thought I'd post this.
Judging by the lack of grey hair, I'd say it's close to 20 years ago.
I remember catching him a ford on the Rocky and it was cool 'cause there was 
a bunch of guys not catching anything. I walked up and nailed him on 2nd or 3rd cast.
I was throwing a Rebel Craw because I figured I better throw something they hadn't seen 
that day yet.


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## fishing pole

Is that an LTD???


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## Flowie

No thats a hippie with a fish.


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## ironfish

fishing pole said:


> Is that an LTD???


Looks like a olds 88 or 98.


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## steelhead sniper 860

Nice football !!!!!!!!!!


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## creekcrawler

LOL. Trusty Olds 98, though this hippie can't remember the year.
Yeah, those old Londons were futballs!


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## fishing pole

Yeah..looked better at the tail lights. Good call on the 98.

Nice fish. Those were the days. Before it became all the rage to chase steel.


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## perchgoddess

Nice fish and good looking hippie


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## BigDaddy300

Yep the good Ole days


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## Salmonid

yup, I loved the beauty of those London strain fish, that's when I was guiding on them, where a 3-4 fish day was epic...never seeing anyone for a full 10 hrs from car back to car. man those were the days...folks sure are spoiled now...LOL


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## fishing pole

3-4 fish days. I'd return to that any day. Now guys actually buy counters to keep track. (????) What's next. Scoreboards at each hole? I can see it now...Vegas starts giving over and unders on steelhead landed. I'll stick to the unstocked, needle in a haystack type places and every now and then when I get my 3+ epic day I'll be dreaming of those London's. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!! Thanks for the memories CC!


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## creekcrawler

Hooray for the unstocked needle in a haystack places! Couldn't agree more!

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## fishing pole

Pics














PIc from an unstocked trib yesterday. Look at all the people!!! No needles yesterday but well worth the peace and quiet.


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## jjshbetz11

Looks like the V

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## jjshbetz11

Or west branch in Medina?

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## SelfTaught

Well he said it was an unstocked trib..... so you can rule the V out. But the looks of that water level is about the same as the V lol


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## creekcrawler

That mud looks mighty familiar. 

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## Flathead76

Salmonid said:


> yup, I loved the beauty of those London strain fish, that's when I was guiding on them, where a 3-4 fish day was epic...never seeing anyone for a full 10 hrs from car back to car. man those were the days...folks sure are spoiled now...LOL


Now you have to try and stake a claim to try and get a place to fish. Then daylight comes and a crowd of ding dongs elbow thier way in. Gave up fishing for them years ago. Would take the London strain days back in a second.


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## LaDobasser

I have given up on steelhead in the rivers after this past spring. It's a shame, I have so many great memories catching them on the Rocky over the years but it's just not worth fighting the crowds. The last time I was out I walked 20 minutes from the parking lot to a spot I had always had to myself when I made the walk and there were 5 other guys there...you can't find a single place on the river to yourself anymore. I was there at daybreak too! I don't mind sharing good fishing but it is out of hand anymore down there. Way too many fishermen and not enough water, it's going to be like the walleye run in the Maumee at some point.


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## acklac7

LaDobasser said:


> I have given up on steelhead in the rivers after this past spring. It's a shame, I have so many great memories catching them on the Rocky over the years but it's just not worth fighting the crowds. The last time I was out I walked 20 minutes from the parking lot to a spot I had always had to myself when I made the walk and there were 5 other guys there...you can't find a single place on the river to yourself anymore. I was there at daybreak too! I don't mind sharing good fishing but it is out of hand anymore down there. Way too many fishermen and not enough water, it's going to be like the walleye run in the Maumee at some point.


Thats what you get when you have a Steelhead fishery that Rivals that of the Westcoast.

We got it pretty good here, guys.


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## acklac7

Good Read on the Various strains of Steelhead in Erie:

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/threads/steelhead-strain-info.86012/


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## bdawg

Those London strains sure are fatties! I'd love to get into a few of those! I've hooked 2 steelies on rebel craws this year out of 3 fish total. I've bought 4 rebel craws for fishing this year and only have 1 left! One was lost to a steelhead, the others to snags. 

Here's a pic of my steelhead caught on a rebel craw and one of an unnamed tributary that holds a couple of steelies. No shoulders or belly on that steel at all.


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## creekcrawler

Heehee. I know that lil crik! Was catching some darters and stuff for my fish tank there last year.
Was kinda surprised to see a few baby steelies about 3" long show up in in the seine.
BTW, that creek has a name. It's . . . SMACK! Ouch. .


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## creekcrawler

Here's one from another unstocked, unmentionable flow that cannot be found.
Me and a friend got four that day, never saw another person.
Last year, a Manistee.


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## gottacatchemall

If you guys like londons so much, just go up to New York and catch some "Washington" strain chrome... they're beasts


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## rickerd

What I miss most about the London strain is they would enter the rivers and act like trout. They seemed to acclimate to the water they were in and feed like a trout, as opposed to the Mannistee's that mostly seem to be interested in the Boogie Nights. Those Mannistee's are like the Gigalo's that come in and leave when they can't find the party. You people who caught them know what I mean.
Rickerd


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## Willyfield

acklac7 said:


> Thats what you get when you have a Steelhead fishery that Rivals that of the Westcoast.
> 
> We got it pretty good here, guys.


No we don't. It was a much better fishery when the fall strains were stocked. I would rather fish for them in shirt sleeves and shorts then in the middle of friken winter. If you were lucky the girls from headlands beach would walk out to the end of the wall and talk to you while you were reeling in another 6lber. Winter fishing sucks. especially crowded winter fishing. At least with the fall strains we were spread out along the walls, piers and beaches, so there was plenty of room for all.


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## bustedrod

x 2 what willy said


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## creekcrawler

I don't mind those Manistees at all. You can still fish for them in shirt sleeves and shorts... in the Spring.
I just don't like that there's sooo many of them and sooo many more fisherman.


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## the_waterwolf

Steelhead are still a fairly new species to me. What was special about this London strain?


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## TRIPLE-J

they need to get the funding and start stocking both.....
now that would be a great fishery


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## ejsell

the_waterwolf said:


> Steelhead are still a fairly new species to me. What was special about this London strain?


They ran in the fall.

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## SelfTaught

I never had the chance to fish for the London strain like most of you. My question is what were the flows like in fall back when they were stocked? The past cpl years we haven't even had enough rain in the fall to even elevate the rivers much. Was fishing for the London strain done mostly down low on the river and mouths/harbors ?


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## the_waterwolf

So does that explain why I see fewer and few fish in my non stocked tributary in the fall?


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## rickerd

Selftaught,
I will give you my opinion (2 cents worth), based on my almost 20 years of steelhead observation, of which 75% is the Rocky River. I am not a biologist, but maybe a fish "whisperer" I am.
I would consider the flows to be about equal over multiple years. Yes the flows have been few and far between this year. I know a number of my early years the flows were similar. What I noticed about the London strain is, once they entered the river, they stayed until caught, or a total ice lock up. As a beginner it took me 6 trips over 3 years to land my first fish. My first real Fall targeting these fish, I could land 1-3 each 2-4 hour trip in the Fall. Now the last 10 years, I get 0 - 2 fish per Fall trip and half of my trips are skunks. Now I can go to Elk creek and catch them, or Conneaut and catch them, but the Rocky is a barren wasteland upstream of the Marina to me.

In my opinion, The Manistee's need the flow to keep interested in the river. The females especially are procrastinators. They don't show up until Ice out plus 8 degrees F or so.

If judging by numbers of fish caught, I was a better fall fishing person during my developmental years 1997 - 2003 then I ever have been since. I know I am better now though. I don't buy it that the lack of rainfall causes the low number of Steelhead in Fall, because amount of rainfall is never consistent. Now if we had spring fed streams like MI to keep the flow and nutrients going, I bet the Man's would be more inclined early season to stay longer. I think it is the nature of some fish to run in the Fall, regardless of conditions, and some fish run in Winter and Spring. I do appreciate what I've heard that the ODNR has stocked a couple other strains lately to make up for less Manistee's available. I haven't been out in good conditions yet this year to really judge them. Maybe with this warm spell prediction and next week off, I can really give it a try.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all,

Rickerd


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## ejsell

the_waterwolf said:


> So does that explain why I see fewer and few fish in my non stocked tributary in the fall?


I don't think there would be any London's left in Erie tribs. The last would have died years ago. What you're probably getting is stray PA fish in the fall and a few early Manistee fish. Probably getting fewer fish the last few years due to lower stocking numbers, hotter temps and less water. But I'm definitely not an expert.

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## creekcrawler

London's were rainbow trout bred at the state's London hatchery.
Here's the simple - They were regular trout. Regular trout will have about 50% that would run in the fall & 
50% that showed up in the spring. It's their natural genetics for survival. If half spawned in fall and half in spring,
it helped to insure they had a successful spawn. If there was a dry fall, the spring run fish had a good spawn or visa-versa.

Manisitee's have been around so long, they are classified as a separate sub-species. After time they *evolved*
into being more of a spring run fish since those fish were more succesful at breeding in great lakes conditions than the fall spawners. That's why the state stocks them, they get a much higher return rate for these fish than the old London fish.

There still may be a few London strain out there. There is a *small* amount of natural reproduction going on.
I believe they found six tribs of the Cuyahoga that supported natural reproduction.

Incidentally - They Cuyahoga was the *first* Ohio stream stocked with steelhead. In the *1920's* !


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## Willyfield

creekcrawler said:


> London's were rainbow trout bred at the state's London hatchery.
> Here's the simple - They were regular trout. Regular trout will have about 50% that would run in the fall &
> 50% that showed up in the spring. It's their natural genetics for survival. If half spawned in fall and half in spring,
> it helped to insure they had a successful spawn. If there was a dry fall, the spring run fish had a good spawn or visa-versa.
> 
> Manisitee's have been around so long, they are classified as a separate sub-species. After time they *evolved*
> into being more of a spring run fish since those fish were more succesful at breeding in great lakes conditions than the fall spawners. That's why the state stocks them, they get a much higher return rate for these fish than the old London fish.
> 
> There still may be a few London strain out there. There is a *small* amount of natural reproduction going on.
> I believe they found six tribs of the Cuyahoga that supported natural reproduction.
> 
> Incidentally - They Cuyahoga was the *first* Ohio stream stocked with steelhead. In the *1920's* !


All I can tell you is that the fishing was A LOT better with the fall run steelies. Perhaps some of that has to do with the fact that when these spring fish run, the fishing conditions can be downright miserable. Right now the rivers and streams are slushy and locking up in some places. If you get a particularly average to bad winter like the two polar vortex years, as an example, the fish run under the ice and by the time the giant ice boulders have made their way down the river in the spring the fish are mostly gone. I have been fishing for trout, and cohos since the mid 1970's and it is now the worst fishing I have seen in all of those years. My friends that used to catch 200 or more a year, now do not even bother fishing for them anymore. I have found that the older you get, the less you like cold weather. As far as flow rates the 70-80's flow rates were the same as now. We would stand down by the Painesville dam and watch the fall trout bull their way through the shallows. They would then stay in the deep holes all winter. I have caught them at the open water at the P'ville treatment plant in a locked up river. I was a lucky kid. I grew up 200 yards from the Grand River. I guess some would say it was a misspent youth fishing and trapping my time away.


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## SelfTaught

Some great responses and knowledge guys. Appreciate it!


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## TRIPLE-J

the runs in the fall..even with the London strains were all based on rain and bait..just as they are now
in fall when the shiners or other bait fish move into the rivers the steelhead follow to eat its that simple..
you wont see hardly any showing up until the shiners or one of the other bait fish move in close...
used to be when the londons were stocked you would throw a spoon out into fairport harbor and the minnows would spray out of the water when it landed...there was that many minnows ..and you always caught fish..sometimes you had a fish on before you even started reeling in your spoon...
you go now and you still see fish caught but not like you do when the bait moves in...
I haven't really noticed a big difference between the two to be honest....when the bait is there I catch plenty of fish... cept now I catch more in the spring


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## creekcrawler

It's a dead horse anyhow. The ODNR has no plans to stop stocking the Manistees because of their far better return rates. The way I see it, it's a trade off. With the old London strain you had a balanced fall/spring deal, but 
far less fish. With the Manistees, you have more of a spring-biased run with way more fish.


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## fishing pole

Good info...I remember the London Strains...Yep I was constipated and sitting on a tolet in London....Sorry just had to.


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## c. j. stone

"Hippies" didn't drive OLDSMOBILES!?? Need to "shop" a Kombi pic in there!


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## Rybar

great info guys, thanks. one thing is not clear to me though if London strain was fall running fish how come they had a spring run also? did they split, part running in fall and another part in spring?


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## creekcrawler

Yeah. They were about 50% fall/ 50% spring.


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## Willyfield

TRIPLE-J said:


> the runs in the fall..even with the London strains were all based on rain and bait..just as they are now
> in fall when the shiners or other bait fish move into the rivers the steelhead follow to eat its that simple..
> you wont see hardly any showing up until the shiners or one of the other bait fish move in close...
> used to be when the londons were stocked you would throw a spoon out into fairport harbor and the minnows would spray out of the water when it landed...there was that many minnows ..and you always caught fish..sometimes you had a fish on before you even started reeling in your spoon...
> you go now and you still see fish caught but not like you do when the bait moves in...
> I haven't really noticed a big difference between the two to be honest....when the bait is there I catch plenty of fish... cept now I catch more in the spring


Do you still cast spoons for them in the spring? Nothing like a steelhead headed the opposite way of your lure when you are reeling it in. I was watching when my 12 year old son was casting along the Conneaut wall years ago, and a 30"er hit him right at the wall. It pulled him forward two steps! He ended up catching it after an epic battle. Nothing like casting hardware. It is truly my favorite type of fishing.


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## Willyfield

creekcrawler said:


> It's a dead horse anyhow. The ODNR has no plans to stop stocking the Manistees because of their far better return rates. The way I see it, it's a trade off. With the old London strain you had a balanced fall/spring deal, but
> far less fish. With the Manistees, you have more of a spring-biased run with way more fish.


I would have the fish that were available. A hard winter and you won't be fishing in the spring either


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## TRIPLE-J

yes i still cast spoons in the spring..early spring jig and maggots seem to do good too...



Willyfield said:


> Do you still cast spoons for them in the spring? Nothing like a steelhead headed the opposite way of your lure when you are reeling it in. I was watching when my 12 year old son was casting along the Conneaut wall years ago, and a 30"er hit him right at the wall. It pulled him forward two steps! He ended up catching it after an epic battle. Nothing like casting hardware. It is truly my favorite type of fishing.[/QUOT


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## bdawg

I'd rather fish steel in the fall and catch some mixed in with the fall smallmouth bite. In the spring, I'm too busy with the spring crappie bite to chase the steel and the rivers are usually flowing too fast with the rain. It's hard for me to get off a good April crappie bite to chase the elusive silver bullets!


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## bwarrenuk

I'm fishing in the snow right now and loving it. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Nothing better for the joints than a nice cold river to stand in.


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