# snapped off steelies#2 (answers, not pot stirring)



## Crumdfargo (Aug 25, 2005)

To the original poster who said you broke off a fish: It happens! period, end of story, case closed. There are somethings that you can do to try to prevent this, though. 
1. after you break off, look at the end of the line. is the line kind of twisted and tweked? if so, it was your knot. Tie a better knot next time. If it is a clean break, it just snapped the line. These things happen. 

2. 8lb stuff is pretty tough. It could be that you had a knick in the line and were unaware of it. It is absolutly unneccessary to retie your rig after every fish. Just look at the line, does it look bad? if so then retie, if not, have fun.

3. These fish like to roll a lot when hooked, causing the line to wrap around its body. this can stress the line something fierce. not much you can do but keep constant pressure on the fish and hope for the best. If you see it start rolling, try to steer the fish a different way. 

4. It could be that your line just sucks. What brand is it, and how old is it? I personally use exclusively p-line 8lb and 6lb flouro and love it. 

5. Somebody said this, i dont remember who:


> the one tip that I will give you is that river fishing can result in a lot of frays on your line especially using flourocarbon which frays even easier.....I actually quit using flouro in the rivers because of this and just stick to 6 lb mono


 This is plain wrong, discard this message. No offense to whoever wrote this, but its wrong. Flouro is much more abrasion resistant than mono. Flourocarbon is some tough stuff, if you get the right brand. In my own personal tests, the 6lb pline is much stronger than even some fresh 8lb mono i had lying around. Flourocarbon is a hard line, it takes a lot to really mess it up. If you are using VANISH, throw it away and buy some p-line, which is no more expensive and much stronger and holds knots much better. 

The thing to remember is that breakoffs happen, and its nothing to lose sleep over. The most important thing is that you actually hooked the fish and got to fight it, if only for a short time. 

Hope this helps
chris


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## BIgbassin07 (Jul 12, 2007)

i was using the 8lb vanish flourocarbon...so i guess that wasnt my best choice and thanks for all that input it really helps


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

I use 4 and 6lb pline floro without any major issues.

flash----------------------out


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## Steel Cranium (Aug 22, 2005)

Crumdfargo said:


> It could be that you had a knick in the line and were unaware of it. It is absolutly unneccessary to retie your rig after every fish. Just look at the line, does it look bad? if so then retie, if not, have fun.


That was to be my answer until the thread went south. Most of the fish that I lose are due to knot/nick problems. I will routinely run the last five feet of so of line between my fingers to check for abrasion. The type of line really doesn't matter - mono or floro. I'll also give the bait a tug every once in a while while holding the line in my other hand. The line will sometimes snap with just a little tug.


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## DanAdelman (Sep 19, 2005)

i have had about 4 of the biggest steel this season break me off this year... I was using 6 lb test gamma expensive good line... a noodle rod.. and a nice expensive reel with amazing drag... bottom line it happens i personally hate losing monster fish,...so after my recent outing i went out and bought 10lb test flouro. just for the added strenth and thickness to hold up to river cuts... only problem is i haven't been out since. some of the fish i lost my drag may have been set to hard, always check your drag. I tend to tighten my drag late in a fight to make sure i can turn the fish. but if i forget to adjust it, problems..
Most of my breakoffs have came from with in 10 seconds of the initial hookup..I think alot of times the fish may hit a spinner going the opposite direction which would add more pull breaking you off...
Using lighter line you will have to fight the fish longer so even if it doesn't break you off the longer the fight the longer the chance of the fish getting free. I have hooked 2 monsters that i didn't want to lose no matter what and would make sure i wouldn't break the line but after so many headshakes and runs i think they start to open up a hole where the hook is, making it easier for them to get off... just my .02
everything else i read seemed to be on target.... bottom line its all part of fishing and its what keeps us coming back


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## Crumdfargo (Aug 25, 2005)

The key to fighting bigger fish is to fight as hard as you can without breaking the line. They have a lot of energy and can last a longtime. Whatever you do, get the fishes head out of the current. Now that the water is cold, they can fight for seemingly hours, but the fight isn't as strong, so you should be able to horse them in after their initial run or two. Dont play the fish too long if you plan on letting it go, either. Too long of a fight can kill these fish. If your fish doesn't have any energy left when you land it, the battle was too long. There really isn't any need to use anything lighter than 6lb floro, even when the rivers are crystal clear. 

I use a centerpin, so i make my own drag. The fish I lose are generally from the hook dislodging and not from snapped line. Having said that, I dont think spinning reels, even the expensive ones, can handle some of the surges of these hot fish.


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## joe01 (Apr 16, 2004)

i do the same..... i only had 1 brake off this year and it was a very large fish


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## joe01 (Apr 16, 2004)

ksu 4lb to 6lb


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## corndawg (Oct 24, 2007)

Don't forget to spit on the knot before tightening it up.


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

Two things I feel are wrong with some of the posts that I've read, 
#1 re-tieing is not neccesary after landing a fish, this is great if you like playing russian roulette, but talk to any charter capt. or guide on the lakes and rivers and all the quality guys will tell you to re-tie period. Knots are only good for so long and are not as strong as they were when you first tied them after a fight with a fish on lighter lines.
#2 there is absolutely nothing wrong with the drag systems of a decent spinning reel, and have NEVER come across one that couldn't handle the surges of a large steelhead.
I have witnessed steelhead in the teens and even in the twenty pound classes that have had no problem being brought in on spinning gear. I have personally caught salmon in the 20-35 pound class on spinning gear with 10# test line without ever having a problem with spinning reel drags handling the surges.
Now if you have an old reel that has a drag that is locked up, hasn't been taken care of, or just doesn't work thats a different story, but a reel that has been taken care of with a good drag should have absolutely no prblems at all.
TRIPLE-J


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

There are many thoughts on fighting big fish. I use side pressure to throw them off balance keeping there heads out of the water column 
'the up-right position'. I primarily fly fish, but a spinning reel that has a smooth drag you will have no problem with large fish. As it was said before we have all landed big fish on spinning gear. When you get breakoffs are they coming back clean like your mono was cut, or does your line come back looking like a little pigtail?


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## Crumdfargo (Aug 25, 2005)

I disagree strongly with both points you made, but oh well. I consider myself a "quality" guy and these points are what I have found to be true. Also, spinning reels inherently put twist in the line. By the very way they are designed, this is unavoidable. Twist weakens lines, thereby magnifying anything else you have wrong with your line. I usually get about 6 fish out of my tippet before I feel the need to retie. I like what one person said about giving it a quick tug, if it breaks, well you know what to do, but if not have fun and fish. Who feels like retying after everyfish when it is like 20 degrees out? not only did you just get your hands wet handling the fish, but now you are going to try to articulate knots with icicle fingers even though the line is A OK? The colder it gets, the harder it is to tie knots and the longer it takes. I have never found a need to retie after every fish. I caught the biggest steel of the year on tippet that had already seen 4 fish. 
I have never hired anyone to take me fishing, so i cant speak for any guides or charter captains. what i can say is that their livelihoods depend on you catching fish and having a good time. If you dont, you probably wont go back to that person and wont tell your friends to do business with them either. so, for them, the motivation to have reliable tackle is a little different than mine.

I didn't mean that you cant use a spinning reel to effectively fish for steelhead. All i meant was that sometimes the drag just doesn't startup quick enough to prevent a snapped line. Kudos to those of you whose use spinning gear, I personally dont care for it and have stated why


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## freshdrumhunter (Sep 27, 2007)

i think Vanish Transition is the best line. Haven't had any break offs and the hook gets set 90% of the time. VT lasts longer than the fireline I had last season (which seemed to fray all the time). I think the way your drag is set can make all the difference, if it's smooth, then you should be fine unless you get nicked up on the rocks.


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## archman (Apr 30, 2004)

I used to have break offs all the time, usually at the knot where I tie the jig to the line. I don't do anything differently now with the knot. In fact, I used to use 8 lb, now I use 6 lb Seaguar or P-line. The only difference I made is that I know how to manage my drag better now. My drag is never set tight, and after every hookset, I instantly loosen the drag. I then tighten it once I get a feel for how the fish is going to fight. Once I have a few fish under my belt for the day I could care less if I actually land the fish, so I will horse them in pretty good. The only time I lose the fish is if the hook bends or it just comes out of the fish's mouth.


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

Sorry if my post made it sound like I didn't think you were a quality guy, that was not my intention. Anybody that comes on here and tries to help a fellow angler is a quality guy in my book. My point was that I have talked with and fished with people who fish everyday for a living, and one of the best pieces of advice I have recieved from the majority of them is to re-tie. You can't feel a nick in the knot, or a weekn'd knot so why take the chance. Even in 20 degree weather you can tie a palomer knot in a few seconds. I know I went over 2 seasons without a break-off, and I feel that was because of what I learned and practiced from these people. If you feel comfortable not re-tying, thats great, if that works for you. But I know one thing, if I do lose a fish becase of a break-off I know for sure it wasn't because my terminal rigs were flawed because of a weekn'd knot or a nick at my knot. It was probably because I did something wrong in landing the fish.
As far as line twist off a spinning reel, yea you do put some twist in while you're reeling in as your drag goes out. Your point in the other post was that spinning reel drags couldn't handle the surge of a steelhead and that was just flat out wrong.
Triple-j


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

My .02 on handeling big fish. One way to effective check tippets or lines is to run it slowly through your lips. Lips are much more sensitive than cold hands and fingers.
Also before you go out take your rig and attach it to a milk jug. fill the jug about a 1/4 full and try to lift the jug with the rod, going back a step attach a pully system to a table and thread the line through and attach to the jug. Stand about 30 feet from the jug. Now get into the rod find out where the back bone begins and study how the rod reacts the the pressure put on it. Add water to the jug as you go to determain what your rig can take. A full 1 gallon jug weighs about 12 pounds so you can work down to figure out your wieght. THis seems a bit of a pain but it will improve your abilty to effective use your rod to slow the fish and protect your tippets. Also fish are lighter in the water than they are on land becouse they are some what bouyant. Just like when we go swimming we are very light in the water. Be aware of your sinker system as well. crimp on sinkers will do just that crimp your line creating a weak spot. Try twist on or tungston puddy wieghts. Boss tin make a product called sticks. they are cylindrical in design and can be place with light pressure and still hold very well. Hope this helps guys.
Off the subject but I fought a massive sturgon in Canada on a number eight hook and 10lb test for SIX hours. The fish jumped eleven time and was estimated at over 100lbs by the guide and was witnessed by many people on the river. I lost that fish when the line simply pulled apart. 100lb fish on 10lb test. I was heart broken and returning to camp with a crowd, holding cameras to see the fish was a bad experience. I was using a medium action BPS bait cast and a Shimano Bantem bait caster fish for walleye both held up very well and the drag on Shimano was a smooth as silk. Sorry to move away from the main point but just one example of loosing the fish of a lifetime it just happens sometimes. S


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## bassin420 (Apr 30, 2004)

Good post Arch, Thats about what I do. I like to see what the rod can do after satisfying that intial urge to land a few. After catching a bunch last Friday I wanted to see what my new Okuma rod and reel setup could do and I was impressed by how much it could handle for being a step down from my St. Croix setup. I did here the rod creak alittle under the cork handle on a few of the bigger fish but it never broke and for alittle over a hundred bucks for the setup, well worth the money! Also, if you want to cut out the line twist factor, I use 8# P-Line Halo for my main line and I tie on a micro swivel and then I add what ever pound test I think I can get away with from there. When they go into those death rolls, the swivel becomes you number one defense against line twist and break offs. I think the number one point being made here is, break offs are going to happen at some point.


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

Archman is right. Set the drag fairly loose and you won't have any trouble.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

1 gallon of fresh water is about 8.36 pounds.


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

I agree with bassin420 on the swivel suggestion. I used to tie direct from mono backing to the floro leader. Now I use a micro swivel and my line twist is almost non existant. When it gets cold out, it is also much easier to tie to a swivel rather than line to line.

As far as drag, I set my more loose. I then tighten it up as needed when fighting fish.

flash----------------------------out


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## DanAdelman (Sep 19, 2005)

maybe he was talking saltwater 
I love steelhead because if we were talking about the majority of fish we would not be discussing drag at all... Which may be why some anglers strugle learning to use it after never having to touch the drag before... if you have a pig tail at the end of your line it was your knot... I have caught dozens of fish on the same knot and lure before... If you tie good knots i cant imagine retying after every fish... It may not take that long for some to retie but while you are doing so you could be fishing... While some anglers catch very high numbers of steel do you thing they are all re-tying or do you think the ones that are not are having a break off at #40?....That being said i am no expert and this is just my opinion...
I would say if you are new to fishing for steel use stronger line 10lb Yo-Zuri is an excellent choice... get some fish under your belt and then drop down in line...Thats what i did but now i am going back to the same line because bottom line the less time you spend fighting the fish the less chance you have of losing or harming it...and why not you will still hook just about the same # of fish with the stronger line...
On a side note i took my brother out a few weeks ago and he had crappy equipment so he used my emergency pole wasn't sure if we would catch anything because it has really thick line on it, we hooked up with about 6 fish with that pole using 16lb test flouro...


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

Sorry about the math, I did get that technique from Andy Mill in a tarpon video series and he was using salt water. I did not know that in salt water 120 lb tarpon actually would be only about 10-12lbs in the saltwater. I don't know the calculations for fresh water but believe the same comparison would be applicable. S


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## TIGGER (Jan 17, 2006)

I also use the micro swivel. The line twist is practically gone. I found that having the drag give a little on the hook set was the key for me. With the super lazer sharp hooks they to stick very well with just the lifting of the noodle firmly. In the old days I would get so amped up on the hook set that I would break it off on the set. The fish didn't even know it was pricked. Alot of times you would catch the fish later with your hook in its mouth.

The fight usually will sink the hook the rest of the way. In the rare case of the fish coming right at you ......... good luck until the line tightens.

The break-off. When I was getting the break-offs in the past it would usually happen within 5 seconds of the hook set. I call it the discovery period. It is when you don't really know how big the fish was and it hasn't discovered out yet that it is attached to something. You are thinking you need your drag tight for a good hookset but you find out that it was too tight for the initial run! 

I was very very lucky to work across the street from Gilson park for 5 years. I worked in that powder blue building with the "Cortest" sign on it. It would drive me nuts. I would look out the door and see the guys standing in the water. On the flip side I got to fish every day! before work........ at lunch....... and after work. Man that was living!!!!!!!!!! LOL Oh the stories I could tell. LOL

I would also check my leaders by running them in my mouth. 

Tight lines!


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## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

wow 2 threads and 6 pages all for someone who snapped off a fish.... it happens. could be the knot, the line quality, tension, obstuctions, or even your fault. there are many factors. case closed...... at least he caught 1 out of 2 so be happy at that. its amazing this thread generated so much responses.... amazing what a lil drama will cause!


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## ngski (Aug 16, 2005)

I too use a micro swivel even though I swing flies, tie the swivel between the leader and the tippet. Knoticed the fish would do twistys in the water, eventually breaking my tippet. The rest of my break offs would come when setting the hook, have to remember to lift to set the hook to absorb the run of the fish. Sometimes I would forget and the fish would make a tear and my rod would almost be parallel with the water and thats when most of my break offs would come.


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## erieflyguy (Dec 6, 2007)

Man, about a year ago, I posted under my old screenname, recommending the use of a micro-swivel and guys jumped all over me saying it would spook the fish. Now, I see a lot of guys using them.

Ha. Everyone's an expert I guess. Break offs will happen bud, just do your best to eliminate the majority of them.


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## Crumdfargo (Aug 25, 2005)

> wow 2 threads and 6 pages all for someone who snapped off a fish.... it happens. could be the knot, the line quality, tension, obstuctions, or even your fault. there are many factors. case closed...... at least he caught 1 out of 2 so be happy at that. its amazing this thread generated so much responses.... amazing what a lil drama will cause!


Hey man, the kid was asking a question. He said it was his first two steelhead ever. Just trying to give the guy some info. Telling him "it happens" is not the answer to his question. If you look, there are a ton of great replies to the original question. Peopl just want to help


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

If you want to increase your chances of landing steelhead, sharpen your hooks, check your line and re-tie even after every fish. This will greatly improve your chances period, especially with you being knew to the scene. Is it absolutely neccesary to re-tie? No. But will it increase your chances of landing the next fish? Definately. As stated in the past thread "these fish like to roll a lot when hooked, causing the line to wrap around its body, this can stress the line something fierce" is exactly why you should re-tie. It also stresses the knot which you will never see or feel. Bottom line you will lose fish, thats just part of the game.
Triple-j


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## JumpinJackBass (Nov 13, 2007)

crumdfargo...u said it there is a lot of good advice in these threads....if you follow that users posts he has never even caught 1 steelhead and has asked repeated questions but does not get mad when people show advice towards his threads! sounds to me to be a little selfish..every angle has been just about covered in these 30 some odd threads and all are correct....a steelhead is a tough fish to master, and many factors are takin into consideration during the fight.. the best answere to the question is to just keep a tight line and hold on!!! sometimes you win and get the fish and sometimes you lose and get to re-tie. all in all have fun doing it and don't beat yourself up when you lose one! and for the people who think this thread is causing _DRAMA_ don't read it, it is as simple as that. For those that are reading with the intent to only get better just check your line quality, keep a tight line and most importantly hang on!


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## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

hey jumpinjack you always got some smart ass comment to say about me. i am not selfish. you don't even know me. I never said you shouldn't answer his questions. I even gave him my thoughts and thats what i believe. it happens? it can be many factors. you are right that i never caught a steelhead yet since its my 1st year trying using a fly pole. i have however caught one on the spin rod before just choose to keep using my fly rod.. plus whats that gotta do with it anyways? i have caught lots of fish on both a fly rod and regular poles. so I think I know how to fish. whatever i don't really care what you think. you are just a big mouth anyways. to the guy that lost the fish. my advice stands. it happens sometimes. i have lost a fish before too. well sorry to add more DRAMA to the post then there already is.. just don't like people disrespecting me. this guy moves back here joins this forum and thinks he can bad mouth me in every thread I post. get real man. grow up. u said u moved back here from living here 20 years ago. act your age already. and back to the original poster. hope you have better luck next time. glad you have one under you belt. keep trying


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## JumpinJackBass (Nov 13, 2007)

fishaholic69 you are right i dont know you and i dont want to know you. you sound very childish. if you would have read this post you would know that i never told anyone not to help this guy out! that is what everyone is here to do, help people out. what i did say was that crumdfargo was right about what your replie was to this post. someone asked a question and a lot of people answered big deal. that is what this forum is for right? for people to answere other peoples questions? you bring up fly rod fishing vs. spin cast fishing. that had nothing to do with this post what so ever so what are you even talking about? i fish mostly with a fly rod with the occasion of spin cast. i have had luck on both sides of the fence!.... but you are the one that brought that up not anyone else, so iam kinda un clear what you are trying to accomplish. i am sure you have caught fish on both poles. but again what does that have to do with anything? the original post was because someone broke off their fish and they wondered why. either way you fish these posts applie ot both methods of fishing. so... they posted and people answered with their opinions. And for the record i have not bad mouthed you in anyway only stating the way i see that u act. in actual fact crumdfargo was the one that so called bad mouthed you and i just agreed. it sounds as if you have a problem with people opposing your thoughts. if this is true maybe a forum is not the place for you. maybe you should hold up in a fishing shanty some place by yourself with no opinons but your own. you are not gonna make any freinds here with a negative attitude! and yes i did live here 20 years ago and i am trying to pass some of my years of experiance down to others. every time i posted to one of your post or nay one elses' i was only trying to help as do others on here. I have caught numerouse steelhead(fly fishing and spin cast fishing). i have learned alot of things along the way form a lot of people. I want to try and pass these things down to others... if you dont care what i have to say then DO NOT respond to my opinons. it is as simple as that. no one is making you read these posts. dont try to hinder someone elses' success so you can cash in on the big fish! that will get you no place! so maybe you should grow up a little bit and learn from this! i am not trying to argue with you i am trying to help u and others catch fish. END OF STORY!!!


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## steelheadtracker (Oct 1, 2006)

man why is it that if a thread goes over 3 pages someone ends up getting mad at someone? just take in peoples opinions and think what u wanna think but like the old saying goes if u dont have anything nice to say dont say it at all.


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## JumpinJackBass (Nov 13, 2007)

some people must get tired of reading the same posts and taking in great advice from others. and you are right about the old saying! just wish some people have heard of that! this thred will probably end up getting locked like that last one due to some idiots!!


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## Crumdfargo (Aug 25, 2005)

i wasnt bad mouthing anyone. I just said that "it happens" is not very sound advice for a beginner. nothing personal guys


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

this is tyical of what happens when someone starts a new thread about one that was closed.people end up resorting to personal attacks and name calling,which is why the first thread was closed.i think there has been sufficient response to the original topic,so let's please move on to something more constructive,and stop with the personal argments.if you have a beef with someone,take it up in private instead of trashing other people's threads.


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## steelheadtracker (Oct 1, 2006)

i got some boxing gloves, we should get everyone here on ogf to come over to my house and have a boxing tournament lol


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## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

my response was deleted even tho i thought it was sufficent. other than that i am glad to move on and hope noone gets on anyones bad side. no need. like rodney king says. can't we all just get along!


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## The One (Jun 9, 2007)

I would have to add that salmon and steelhead don't fight the same either. Chinook like to bulldog and can make big strong runs. Coho are a bit more fiesty and are probably closer to a steelhead. When you hook into a 10+lb steelhead they can turn thier head in a blink and snap your line before you can even think about your drag let alone hear it sing.


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