# These rivers are Killing me!



## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm getting really frustrated again with fishing in the rivers. When I can go, the rivers are low, too high, raining, muddy, whatever. When the flows and weather are nice I can't get there. When I do get there, I don't know where the holes/fish are. I feel like I have learned to cast well enough to put the fly in the neighborhood of where I want it but I don't know if there are any fish there. 

I have yet to catch a fish out of a river so I don't know if what I'm feeling is a fish or the bottom. Set the hook only to have it either embed itself under a rock or come flying back at me. Now I'm snagged and I have to wade over and get un snagged. This either shows me that I have been casting into 6 inches of water or scares all of the fish that may or may not have been there. 

I got to this frustration level in the spring and decided to put the fly rod down and catch some brain dead Bass from the boat in lakes on spinning gear. 

I really like the finesse and elegance of casting the fly rod but I feel like I will have to stop telling people I'm going fishing and start telling them I'm going to go get pissed for a few hours. 

I'm going to go somewhere on Sunday (Chagrin or Grand) if anyone wants to let me tag along and maybe give me some pointers.


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

You have to move around and learn some holes. You will lose a lot of flies too so you'd better be tying your own or you will go broke.


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

I have lost a fair few flys. I try to keep moving, usually with the current.


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## gahannafly (Aug 11, 2012)

How I started-Big Walnut Creek below Hoover dam to airport, I think I am the only person that fishes it with a fly rod-very urban, lots of trees to hang up your flies and not the greatest of fisheries. But I have caught a variety of fish and some nice sized small mouth.
Flies I use-both are cheap and catch fish-clouser minnow in white/chartreuse and devil bug dry fly(it can be fished dry or wet-#12 twelve dry fly hook, peacock herl, deer hair shell back-see fly fish ohio web site. I loose a lot of these two flies but they area cheap to tie.
Two lines-one floating, one sink tip.
Leader for floating line is a nine foot or seven foot 3x. 
Leader for sink tip-2 feet of 20# and 2 feet of 10# test.

I think small mouth are just if not more spooky than brown trout. When I catch one I usually need to move to a different area on the river before I catch another. So move slow in the creek-I think my first or second cast in a area is usually the most likely to catch a small mouth. I have spotted some trout before I caught them but never a small mouth.

Below spill ways are good places to fish. Also where a tributary enters the creek.

The more you read about fishing creeks (trout or small mouth) the better you will get.

I catch a lot more other species when fishing for small mouth-rock bass, crappie, pumpkin seeds, saugeye, etc. but I think these are the bread and butter of fishing warm water creeks with a fly rod. 

Now that it is starting to get cold I forget about the small mouth and only trout fish.

If I had a boat I would love some bass fishing. Large mouth bass fisherman tear it up!


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## ngski (Aug 16, 2005)

ducman491 said:


> I'm getting really frustrated again with fishing in the rivers. When I can go, the rivers are low, too high, raining, muddy, whatever. When the flows and weather are nice I can't get there. When I do get there, I don't know where the holes/fish are. I feel like I have learned to cast well enough to put the fly in the neighborhood of where I want it but I don't know if there are any fish there.


It's the story of everyone that started fly fishing for chromes, it took me a couple of seasons before I caught my first chrome. Picked most of my tips from the bible, John Nagy Steelhead guide. Hooking up with a few fly fishing buds, taught me some riggings and what kind of water to look for.

Try to think like a fish if I need to swim up river where would I hide, were can I take a break where no one will see me, and in the spring look for gravel area to spawn.


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## WhoolyBugger (Aug 25, 2008)

Sounds like you have mechanics, equipment, and a river to fish. There is no reason you can't be successful. First bit of advise I offer all budding fly fishers is: I know you have waders but that dosent mean you need to stand in the water. Fish can feel and see disturbances in the water. Sneak up to the river, scout out where you wanna put your fly and be stealthy about the approach and presentation. Move slowly if you have to get in the water. Read the river and figure out where fish hold and remember those locations for future trips. Use what you figure out on home waters for success on unfamiliar flows. Lastly as another put- you will lose flys to trees, rocks, snags, etc.. Break off if you have to.
Good luck!


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I'm hoping to get in the river again this weekend. I'm either too stubborn or not bright enough to quit.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

If you're referencing steelhead fishing, believe me, I feel your pain. I live about 4 hours from the tribs and can usually only get up there on weekends. I hear it a lot, "You should have been here on Tuesday!" "If you can come up right now it's hot!" "The conditions will be perfect on Thursday," etc... I have pretty much given up. It's too complicated for me, this far away, to get there when it's right. The water is always too high, too low, too warm, too full of leaves, it seems like the list never ends. It's awesome when it's good, but for me it's almost impossible to be there when it is. Also for me, with gas being what it is, it's not really worth the trip to go all that way to hopefully scratch out a fish or two. 

As for snagging the bottom and not knowing what is a fish, I heard a great line one day from a pro angler on TV. It went something like this: "It's better to set the hook when it's not a fish and *look* like a fool than not set the hook when it is a fish and *be* a fool."  In other words, setting the hook and having the fly come back at you is better than missing fish, so treat any possible strike as a strike!


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

I go by the "hook sets are free" theory when bass fishing on 50lb braid in the pads but it seems when fly fishing with a rocky bottom they cost up to $3. . I'll get one eventually, the curse will be broken and my kid will have to find another reason to make fun of me.


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## DeathFromAbove (Oct 21, 2008)

Don't give up Ducman. I was like you and couldn't catch squat. Just seemed like I didn't know what I was doing. Had a breakout year this year on The Maumee and some ponds. Had a couple 70 fish days on the Maumee Caught some 18+ smallies on my 5 wgt. Well worth the wait.


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

Just hang in there and maybe fish with someone who's more experienced. If money is not an issue a guide can really help. The fly fishing learning curve(especially with nymphing) was pretty long for me but one day it just "clicked". Fish ponds and rivers for bass and stuff in the summer to build confidence. Keep at it and all you'll want to do is fly fish.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

I know some people don't like them but I have found sinking lines to increase my catch to cast ratio. Got to get the fly down to where the fish are sometimes. I really like the jim teeny bs100 line.


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

I spent about hour on the Chagrin this weekend. I didn't get my dead ass out of bed early enough. No bites but no one around me got any either so I figured I missed the hot time. 

I bought a sinking line for my 5wt then broke the tip. Maybe I'll get another and try that for a change of pace. 

I know I need to use it more for bass and others to become more familiar. I feel like I'm chasing cars on the freeway in the rivers. Anyway my casting is improving every outing so there's that.


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## Wannabitawerm (Apr 13, 2004)

Maybe this will help for next season. In the summer when the water is low and clear, get as high as you can and scout for those holes. Make a mental note or draw a map. Scouting made a huge difference for me when I was steel heading. I even threw on some old tennis shoes and when no one was fishing, waded through to guage depth. Once I did that I could tell the depth of the hole just by the darkness of the water. Deeper holes were darker. Come season, I just worked the hole by feel and sight( and yes, I lost a ton of jigs and flies). I was only using spinning gear but a fly fished pretty well with a weighted bobber and some splits. I also found that contrast was very important. I would use a dark jig and load it with maggots. That may be something to consider when tying or buying flies. Hope this helps.


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## flyphisherman (Jul 7, 2009)

Something that helped me along the road of learning to flyfish (for steel), was to very simply go to PA and work on technique there. They have more fish along with smaller waters that clear faster. All of these things combined will put more fish on the end of your line. 

I was able to learn a lot on those smaller waters. When you bring those techniques, and new found confidence back to Ohio, I guarantee that you will see more success. 

Just a suggestion.....I know it helped me.


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

I did scout the area of the Chagrin closest to me a bit and I've driven passed a lot of the streams in PA. Maybe a trip is in order.


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## ngski (Aug 16, 2005)

flyphisherman said:


> Something that helped me along the road of learning to flyfish (for steel), was to very simply go to PA and work on technique there. They have more fish along with smaller waters that clear faster.


That is a good idea, when I first started one of my purchases was a PA license. But you need to pick the right time, flow before you start plunking away on the PA rivers. 

Sight fishing is the most popular for most PA'ns, but also knowing the holes and where they hold is even more benifical the crowds are a little bit less when PA'ns can't see the fish. 

Fishing some of the bigger rivers in PA changed from years past, the fish are there but in lesser numbers. Don't know if it's a combination of everyone taking stringers of fish home, or maybe the stocking program taken a hit.

Unfortunately the price of a PA visting license for a day is almost 1/2 the cost of a regular out of state license. If your into fishing for chrome my opion is buy a full year PA license, if the Ohio waters are blown out you can always fish PA the waters clear up faster then Ohio.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Consider hiring a guide but be sure to discuss your expectations with him as well as telling him you are a flyrod beginner. There are guides that truly enjoy helping a beginner learn to read the water as well as how to cast. Like anythig else, a competent teacher can get you started and shorten the learning cord substantially.


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## bwrpwr6 (Jan 18, 2010)

one thing that really helped me is watching other fisherman. you can pretty much tell who knows what they are doing and who doesnt. the chagrin especially, if you see a bunch of guys fishing a small area you can bet thats a good hole. everyone seems to know where the good holes are and its a matter of beating the rush to get there. i can remember times when i first started i would be standing in the river in the dark just to beat everyone there. once you fish some of these popular holes you kind of get a feel for where the fish are going to be and you learn what to look for. then its time to venture out and look for those secluded spots that can be a gold mine for you. ive also found that most guys on the rivers are very friendly not all but most and are willing to help. i live about an hour and a half from the chagrin and i can tell you from experience to watch your flows. it gets expensive to drive all the way there to find out the rivers are blown out. i know how it is to have the itch to go but it really isnt worth going unless you just wanna get out of the house. hope this helps and good luck.


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