# Shooter or not ???



## jkeeney20 (Mar 21, 2006)

Shooter or not??????

Sorry the pics are hard to see...the bottom one shows how wide he is


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Shoot. Can't pass it up unless you know he will be around next season.


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## chase845 (Nov 2, 2005)

That's a personal decision. I think I'd probably kill him unless I knew I had a bigger one in the area. If you don't get a chance to kill him, next year will be fun!


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## Fishstix (Aug 16, 2005)

Shooter...I wouldn't think twice.


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## Matt D (Apr 14, 2004)

That is a personal decision that each person can only make for them selves based on a lot of variables. No matter what the decision is there is no right or wrong one.

If it was in front of me the decision would be an easy one. Let it walk. That is a very young deer that has great upside potential and I would take the chance that I might see it in a year or better yet in two years when it would be a true monster. 

I personally don't mind eating tag soup and have actually grown quite fond of it!  

Matt D


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## jmenchhofer (Jan 12, 2007)

Fishstix said:


> Shooter...I wouldn't think twice.


What he said. !% 

Of course, I don't see a lot of bucks in my area, and rarely see anything that nice, let alone better. That would make it an easy decision for me. Assuming you have an empty tag, it's a legal deer, so whatever decision is right for you is the correct one.


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## BigChessie (Mar 12, 2005)

If you are on private land......Let him grow up, you won't regret it. But then again it all depends on why and what you are hunting. Just to shoot and recover a whitetail with a bow is a trophy in itself. YOU should decide rather it is a shooter or not, not a bunch of guys on OGF. Just the fact that you had to ask tells me that it must not be in your eyes. I have a buck mounted with only 5 points,scrub rack and maybe 50". But it is THE trophy of a lifetime(to me) just because the story behind it. Good luck with whatever you decide! BC


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## sparkywest28 (Feb 27, 2005)

no,nice young deer. hard to pass but he should grow 20 scoring points next year. to late in season now anyway.


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## jkeeney20 (Mar 21, 2006)

I know it would be my decision, but its nice to see what everyone else thinks too. As far as I am conserned, he will most likely walk until next year, I missed a 150" 12 point already this year with my bow.....as far as land, he has about a 75% chance of making it until next year....I have passed on 3 around his size already this year, only problem now is......its getting late and I still got my buck tag....just hope that desease that was going around doesn't take any next year, took 3 decent bucks this year....I'll see if I can get a pic of one it took, makes you sick....but thats life I guess..


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

pass for me, but as others have said totally up to you. Knowing he has a great chance to make it makes it even better. He looks like a 2.5 with a 17-18 inch spread, the biggest difference next year will be mass. That 3rd year with antlers they really start piling on mass and character. 

I am fortunate to see a lot of deer when I am out bow hunting. I typically just sit on my pearch and observe as I only take does and mature bucks. I know a shooter as soon as my eyes see the buck - I'm not looking at them to field judge the score, etc. - I am not a trophy hunter, but rather just choose not to shoot young bucks (less than 3.5). When you see a 3.5+ yr. old buck you know it - body and typically rack as well here in Ohio. In my areas a 3.5 yr old will have a 120+ inches of antler almost every time and could be as large as 160+.

I have only passed a shot at 1 buck in my life (while I had a tag; seen a few after I had tagged my buck) that was in this age class. I typically hunt and try to bag the first mature buck I get a good shot at.

If you've already passed 3 this size I wouldn't think you'd be satisfied with this deer - just my observation. If you need meat, I would try to get a doe and eat my buck tag if you don't score this month - no shame in that. Best of luck to ya whatever you decide!


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## bgpark1 (Apr 23, 2004)

Last year i passed on a # of bucks... many bigger than that... cause i was looking for that 12 that kept hanging with the 10... had the 10 within 15-20 yards multiple times... but that 12 was huge... i hunted hard and last day of the season... that same 10 walked by at 22 with a doe and a 4 pt... couldn't shoot him knowing he made it through that late and chances are i would see him opening up this season.... thus ending the season buckless. 

This year... saw him? or what i believe is him as a solid 12 and now he travels with a couple different 10's but you can tell the mature from the 2 1/2 to 3 year olds.... when i took my 9 this year, big spread and respectable, i had the 12 and one of the 10's behind me working the underbrush hard... 1st time they had been within a 100 yds of me... and may never present a chance for me to take... but the 9 was respectable... i hunt first for meat... and always knock a doe down first... but i didn't want to end the season like last, with my buck tag in hand wishing i had taken that respectable 10 last year.

I have seen at least 30 different bucks where i hunt... i hunt hard... i use every percaution to be invisible scent and sight... spending too much time out there... if i were to have the above dear in front of me i would likely take it... but if few bucks are in your area... if he made it this far he is likely to be around next year. 

2 eggs in the basket are better then a chicken in the bush... lol.


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## EMRDUCKS (Jun 28, 2004)

I Can Smell The Back Straps Cookin Now


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## chase845 (Nov 2, 2005)

How can you determine that deer to be 2.5 or 3.5 from those two pictures?


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Chase - if you are asking me my answer is that I can not be sure what age that deer is. It is very easy to distinguish age on deer from yearlings (born current season), 1.5 yr old, and then 2.5 yr. old - it gets very difficult after that and the only sure way would be have a biologists do the work.

I can tell you that deer is at least 2.5 from the photo and that he is not completely matured. In general you should look at the deer more than the antlers - as deer age and become mature the snout on the deer appears shorter due to "filling out" so to speak. Deer are just like people too - if you are fortunate enough to see an older deer (say a 5.5yr old) they get gray in the face, they get kind of a "old man" build - some even get a bit of belly until they run iot off; they even run different (you guys that have seen one know exactly what I am talking about).

The more deer you get to see afield the easier it becomes. I used to struggle with does - is that a yearling or a 1.5? Look at the heads/snouts and start paying attention and you will be able to pick out yearlings even if they are together (meaning you have no body size for reference). Knowing Ohio deer fairly well I am just giving my best guesstimate at 2.5; he could be 3.5, but I doubt it. It seems 3.5 is the majic age to acheive full body size and typically a little more mass on the antler than this guy has. He is very typical of a 2.5 yr. old with a lot of potential.

Basically, it gets very difficult to tell age after 3.5 and there is no way to tell even looking at the carcuss.


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## jkeeney20 (Mar 21, 2006)

Here is a pic of one of the deer I found dead...laying near the creek...right before season came in


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## ReadHeaded Hunter (Apr 17, 2007)

If you look at the first picture, u can by the short nose that its a young deer. should be a hoss in a couple years! then again it all depends on your buck population. i know where i hunt that would be a trophy so it depends. that skull you found shows that there are definitely big bucks in the area. Personally i would take him, especially this late in the season but that would be only my second buck and my second ever bow kill so its hard to have someone else tell you what to shoot. I think these days people think you cant shoot a buck unless its a record breaker. it doesn't really matter if your put in P & Y if your happy with ur buck


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

If it were Public land I would shoot it for sure, private land maybe. Bucks like that one I think in reality should be left to walk and mature more. But they rarely survive long enough to do that around here thanks to our local loyal slug throwers. So if I were hunting a land which gets hunted ( or the surrounding properties) I would most definatly take that buck and be very proud of it. _If I thought the buck was safe, then I would let him walk and be even prouder. _


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## outdoorsjunkie08 (Dec 4, 2006)

Yes, if you got that deer with a bow then thats deff.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

If only you knew how many bucks I have seen in season and throughout the year only to never see them again.On my birthday last June 28 I was up about 6:45am and seen 4 deer that were that size or better in velvet.To me that will always be my best birthday gift.However I never seen any of them again.Deer run 5-8 miles regularly and I dont think any of us own a lot that big unless your down in texas or out in the plains.You almost have to shoot anything 16" or bigger.I let alot walk hoping they grow up but rarely does it pay off.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

It's entirerly up to you, do you what you think is right


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## BigChessie (Mar 12, 2005)

> Deer run 5-8 miles regularly and I dont think any of us own a lot that big unless your down in texas or out in the plains.You almost have to shoot anything 16" or bigger.I let alot walk hoping they grow up but rarely does it pay off.


Sorry but I got to totally disagree with you. I own 197 acres and I have pics of the same deer from April (turkey season) all the way through the rut. If your wondering how I know, pretty easy when they have markings only they have. Example: One has a notch missing in his left ear like he had been shot, Another has a white rear right hoof. I also know for a fact that deer I have let walk are still there even after gun season. The only buck that has been shot on my land in the last 4 seasons was by my boy. It is nothing to see 140"+ deer now because we pass on 16" inside spread. I always love to hear guys say they never see big deer,as they drive away with a 1 1/2 year old 10 point in the back of there truck. Everyone has what they consider a trophy already in there mind before they hit the stand. But bragging about how your 1 year old deer had 12 or 14 "points", just tells me that it is not a trophy, just something to brag about. There is a difference.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

we hunt a decent size peice of land and let the small ones walk. There are some years where you see tons of borderline shooters and think man next year will be awesome. (like last year) then for some reason you just don't see the mature deer the next year. Im sure alot of this is from heavy hunting pressure in the area, and IM quite sure that the yahoos down that way poach them in the off season. This year I let a couple like that walk but just because I shot one that size last year. However we have also seen some monsters that im sure at one point or another we have let walk when they were younger. Smaller deer turn into bigger deer. Thats the bottom line. Until they pass a law that only 4.5 year old bucks can be shot there will always be argument for both sides. Either way just make sure that you are happy with the choice you make.

heres one that I passed up this year, that looks like his twin, notice how the tines are thinner and don't curve back toward the center. And the short brow tines. Also the main beams don't curve back in much at the end. All are signs of a younger deer. He might be 3.5


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

If you are asking if this deer is a shooter or not to us you will get a wide range of answers, as you have.

If you are asking if this deer is a shooter for you, no one can answer that question except you.

If you let a buck walk there is no guarantee you'll ever see him again. However if you kill him there is a 100&#37; absolute guarantee that he will never grow older and larger

I know in todays era of hunting shows and magazines, hunting sites, or even here on OGF there seems to be some minimum size benchmark that everyone is trying to obtain. That's ok if that is what drives you but you really should hunt to please yourself, not others. Peer pressure is a tough thing to deal with. 20 years ago the coined phrase "shooter" was pretty much unheard off.

A question for many of you. If you lived in a very remote area, 100 miles to the nearest neighbor, no phone, no mail service, no internet, no outside contact at all, NO ONE to show your deer to, would you be as focused on the size of the deer you shoot? I wouldn't be 

Ever notice how when someone tells you or posts that they killed a doe that it almost always include the word "big" in the description. Doesn't anyone ever kill a small doe? 

I've been there done that, When I was a young man bow hunting 3-5 states each year I had to kill more and bigger deer than all of my buddies. As I grew older I learned, over a long time, to hunt for me, and not really worry about how others measured me as a hunter. The last 10 years I've had more opportunity, killed less deer, than anytime in my life and have enjoyed hunting much, much, more than I ever have.

So, to me, if that bucks lights your fire, have at em


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Lundy said:


> Ever notice how when someone tells you or posts that they killed a doe that it almost always include the word "big" in the description. Doesn't anyone ever kill a small doe?


Yeah, I am still holding out for my Pope & Young doe for this year.

By the way, I totally agree with what Kim is said in that post. The answer to that question of a shooter can only be answered by the hunter himself.


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## bgpark1 (Apr 23, 2004)

Well Said.... to get on a 3 1/2 year old 8 pt with an inside spread of 18+ and nice mass is better than a basket buck 10 pt with a 12-14 inside spread at 1 1/2 to 2 years old... plenty of those small ones in the woods.... I saw 20+ different young ones this year... but the surrounding property owners only shoot mature bucks so the area i am in has great land management without being truely managed.


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2008)

Yeah i think Lundy put it very well. I know i always get upset when I see seasoned hunters killing small immature bucks, but i guess the trophy is in the eye of the beholder. It just kinda makes you cringe though when you see hunters in your area killing the little guys that you past on all of bow season. As long as they are legal though its all fair game. One thing that always gets my goat though is the guys who always complain about not seeing any big bucks, and yet they go out and kill small ones.


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