# Lorain Perch ruined by a freighter



## bcnulater (May 7, 2007)

We were out in the pack of boats off Lorain yesterday trolliin and couldn't come up with a program that worked. Kept running over great perch marks so decided to anchor and catch some with the thought we'd go back to trollin later. So we're about 40 fish into a 2 man limit when I just happened to turn around and see the Great Republic freighter coming at us dead on !! It was less than a mile away and never signaled once !!!! We pulled anchor as fast as we could and got out of there. We saluted in a variety of ways:at-wits-end:
He continued thru many more boats then headed back out deeper going east. He was not coming into Lorain port, he never signaled, and was not in a shipping lane! We tried getting back to our spot because the perch were really getting on fire. No numbers but I'm guessing we were 3-4 miles straight out of Lorain in 48'
A few good size but most around 9-10" , 12 lbs at cleaners


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## jimski2 (Jul 23, 2010)

Robot computer steering does not see you. Right of way does not excuse you from doing nothing to avoid an accident

.

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## ChinnAgain (May 28, 2012)

He came backing out of the Huron river from unloading and didn't care who was in his way.


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## OhYeah (Apr 29, 2005)

Here's the contact info for the corporate ownership:
http://www.americansteamship.com
American Steamship Company : A subsidiary of GATX Corporation 
500 Essjay Road : Williamsville, NY 14221
Tel: (716) 635-0222 
E-mail: [email protected] 


I think I saw the following on the stern as it powered through:

How's our driving ? Tel: (716) 635-0222


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## ohiojmj (Apr 16, 2004)

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sorry I bothered to post


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## ohiojmj (Apr 16, 2004)

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## billk (Feb 2, 2008)

We saw him come thru about a half mile north of where we were trolling. Sure did look like a few boats were too close for comfort. He was steaming along at a pretty good clip as well. We could tell he was empty but how high he was riding.


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

Not trying to be an a$$ here but there is an extreme lack of knowledge of the rules of the road on the water. I would imagine a boat the size you are talking about would fall under the Restricted IN Your Ability to Maneuver Category. You on the other hand would be considered Under Command and Not Restricted in your Ability to Maneuver therefore making you the Give Way Vessel. There is a pecking order that is followed on the water and you were lower on the order. Here is the pecking order that applies in your situation.
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;(This is where the Freighter falls)
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;(this is not you)
(iv) a sailing vessel.
you are down here

These rules can found in The Code of Federal Regulations Vol. 33


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## ohiojmj (Apr 16, 2004)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx removed posts, didn't care for a few attitudes....hope it doesn't turn into another WC


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

we run into this a lot on the Ohio River and all day long we are moving out of there way, its just what we all do to protect ourselves from bad things happening. I might add that many barge operators knowingly go out of there way to steer right down the lane were fishing so we do know how they sometimes take advantage of the "were bigger then you are" rules of the road. Safety comes first at all times and that is rule number 1. all else refers back to rule number 1...


Salmonid


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

ohiojmj said:


> Does the CFR excuse the freighter from safe operation via an occasional horn blast to warn others of danger or in harms way? That's all it would have taken to warn those that didn't see or hear the steaming freighter approach. Just as in driving vehicles, there is more to to preventing accidents than simply following the law (courtesy, common sense, patience, etc.).


 Read the rules or take a class then you will know. The vessel I'm sure was flying Day Marks as required by CFR 33 and if you knew what to look for a horn blast is not necessary.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

mkalink said:


> Not trying to be an a$$ here but there is an extreme lack of knowledge of the rules of the road on the water. I would imagine a boat the size you are talking about would fall under the Restricted IN Your Ability to Maneuver Category. You on the other hand would be considered Under Command and Not Restricted in your Ability to Maneuver therefore making you the Give Way Vessel. There is a pecking order that is followed on the water and you were lower on the order. Here is the pecking order that applies in your situation.
> (i) a vessel not under command;
> (ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;(This is where the Freighter falls)
> (iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;(this is not you)
> ...


A vessel at anchor trumps a vessel under restricted maneuvering. If she was out of the channel I highly doubt the ball, diamond, ball was flying from the yard arm.

So long as the OP was not anchored in a channel or charted traffic lane, the freighter was in the wrong by what's been posted.


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## Redear (Apr 11, 2004)

Was there fishing with OH YA and watched him come through the pack .looked like somebody was going to get mowed under.who's right of way or not is bull.
Blow the horn!!!!! Good fishing with you Gary
Fred


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## chrisx28 (Jun 20, 2010)

I believe this is the Jack A** your talking about. we were 68ft trolling and seen him running right down the fishing line, I was shocked so took this picture. This was out in North Perry! Note that we are looking at shore here, this guy was out to ruin everyone's time on the water, an hour before that we were perch fishing in like 55-60.


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## Spaniel235 (Jun 19, 2005)

She was creating quite the wake....we were south of there and she was pushing a lot of water....


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

We had the manistee head right into us ast weekend off rocky river I could have thrown a stone and hit it. I've had to get out of its way, in Cleveland it's common I'm used to getting out of there wa.


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

Sharp charge read the rules a vessel at anchor is not listed in the pecking order. If you are at anchor, sitting on the boat fishing your vessel is under command and falls in at the bottom of the pecking order. Like said read the rules of the road in CFR 33. I copied and pasted the rule right from the CFR what is there e you don't understand.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

I try to obey the laws. But when in doubt common sense wins out. When I'm at anchor i keep my eyes open, Stupid canadians coming thru are worse than freighters. Put i will pull and move for any ship. Some are remote controlled and some plain cant see small boats. But my main thought is their huge and i for one know better than push them. LOL! The ports are made and the lake is first for shipping. And i feel lucky to be able to just get in.


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## Fishman2025 (Aug 14, 2009)

One other thing to keep in mind. There are un marked shipping lanes (no buoys). But they are on most maps and gps maps. 

Some are in very common areas that we fish. 



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## rattletraprex (Sep 1, 2005)

I always wondered what you'd do if that happened and your boat wouldn't start? Get on the radio or start swimming but don't think I could swim that fast. We always keep a close eye on one when we see it.


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## chrisx28 (Jun 20, 2010)

Very good point on that. That guy was moving to fast to even begin to get help where I was at. I would have shot a flare at him and hoped someone seen it. Someone should have to stay in the Captains chair at all times for everyone's safety.


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## bcnulater (May 7, 2007)

mkalink said:


> Read the rules or take a class then you will know. The vessel I'm sure was flying Day Marks as required by CFR 33 and if you knew what to look for a horn blast is not necessary.


I talked to a good friend who spent years on the boats and he said they ALWAYS blew the horn 2 times. As far as he knew it was mandatory!
What class do you think THEY missed? Really mkalink, you've missed the point. I don't care if he's flying neon orange panties, if you can't hear him good does it do !


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## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

this guy has it right!


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## Bischoff66 (May 25, 2007)

You must not have heard him. I was out north end of the dump heard him signal. Did find it weird that he bypassed lorain in that close.


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## bcnulater (May 7, 2007)

ohiojmj said:


> You obviously didn't get the cold chill from the surprise of a freighter steaming toward your anchored 17' boat. Safe boat operation is more than just following the law, it's avoiding accidents. Who said we did nothing?


Guess he missed the part about getting out of there as fast as we could 




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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

No I got the point , it would be nice if they blew their horn or something. I just wanted to let everyone know that it is not required and what the rules of the road really are. 


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

Apparently your friend with all those years of experience on the water must have traveled a whole lot to starboard because 2 blasts of the horn means you are turning to starboard it's all in writing in CFR 33. The point I am trying to make is these large freight vessels are on the water every day and they follow laws and guidelines set forth by the governing body. Most recreational boaters don't have a clue what the rules are or where they can be found. These captains and crews on these commercial vessels go through extensive training and log thousands of hours on the water to get and maintain their rank and status. What does a recreational boater need to travel on the water, nothing but something that floats. The lakes would be much safer if there would be some kind of required training or testing to operate a watercraft. Ok I'm done with my rant after all it is all about the fishing. If I had to pull anchor and move because a freighter was coming through I would pissed too. But I would move, whilst flipping the crew the bird.


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## nooffseason (Nov 15, 2008)

mkalink said:


> These captains and crews on these commercial vessels go through extensive training and log thousands of hours on the water to get and maintain their rank and status. What does a recreational boater need to travel on the water, nothing but something that floats. The lakes would be much safer if there would be some kind of required training or testing to operate a watercraft.
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire



There is, but only for those born 1982 and after.


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## chrisx28 (Jun 20, 2010)

Yup all of us inexperienced boaters will be dead soon! :Banane06:


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## Bobinstow90 (Apr 13, 2006)

I have a question or two.

Was this commercial vessel in a "shipping channel"?


Why is a commercial vessel....near at anchor fishermen.....not required to blast horn.....repeatedly.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

mkalink said:


> Sharp charge read the rules a vessel at anchor is not listed in the pecking order. If you are at anchor, sitting on the boat fishing your vessel is under command and falls in at the bottom of the pecking order. Like said read the rules of the road in CFR 33. I copied and pasted the rule right from the CFR what is there e you don't understand.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Ok "Shipmate", let's take a look at the rules... We'll start with definitions. 

CFR 33, part 83.03

(b) Power-driven vessel means any vessel propelled by machinery;

(f) Vessel not under command means a vessel which, through some exceptional circumstance, is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel;

(h) Underway means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground;

Part 83.18

§ 83.18 Responsibilities between vessels (Rule 18).

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) Power-driven vessels underway. A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(1) A vessel not under command;

(2) A vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;

(3) A vessel engaged in fishing; and

(4) A sailing vessel.


Part 83.80

(e) Vessels of less than 7 meters in length when at anchor. A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway, anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(f) Vessels of less than 12 meters in length when aground. A vessel of less than 12 meters in length when aground shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (d)(1) and (2) of this Rule.


- A vessel at anchor is 1) restricted in it's ability to maneuver because it's not underway, it's attached to the sea floor! 2) could be not under command depending where the captain is and what he's doing. Is he in the cabin or head? Is he in the water near the boat swimming?

- The "rules of the road" are intended for vessels underway with the exception of some of the lighting regs. You don't signal pass to port or starboard when meeting an anchored vessel. 

And I go back to my initial statement, if this freighter was clear of the channel and in 30 + something feet of water, it's not restricted in it's ability to maneuver and was still in the wrong. 

Now, looking at the chart, there is 1 traffic lane coming straight out of Lorain, bearing 329 degrees off the Lorain Harbor Light up to Pelee Passage. If the OP was anchored up in this traffic lane, then HE was wrong.

Part 83.10

(g) Anchoring. A vessel shall so far as practicable avoid anchoring in a traffic separation scheme or in areas near its terminations.

Or, if he were underway: (j) Power-driven vessels. A vessel of less than twenty meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane.


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## boater53 (Jun 18, 2013)

Wow! Now you know why I don't fish on the weekends! Too crowded with too many who don't have a clue. Why would you flip the crew the bird? Imagine being the mate on watch or captain of these vessels steaming willy-nilly about trying to dodge all of you anchored (where are your anchor day marks?) boaters(term used loosely). They wouldn't get anywhere. There is always at least 3 crew members on the lookout in congested waters. They will amend their course the best they can, but in the long run they have to make port and deliver the goods. Don't think for one moment that they are taking the congested waterways lightly. As mentioned, they are professionals, doing a hard job. Give them room to to do their job. Remember they are delivering the goods that make our lives easier. We are just fishing. A whistle signal from a large vessel would be nice, but don't count on it. Don't whine, pay attention to what is going on around you. When in doubt get out of the way. It is called the General Prudential rule. Generally meaning, avoid collision by stopping or making a positive move.
By the way, that ship hasn't sailed for American Steamship for about 3 years.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

boater53 said:


> Wow! Now you know why I don't fish on the weekends! Too crowded with too many who don't have a clue. Why would you flip the crew the bird? Imagine being the mate on watch or captain of these vessels steaming willy-nilly about trying to dodge all of you anchored (where are your anchor day marks?) boaters(term used loosely). They wouldn't get anywhere. There is always at least 3 crew members on the lookout in congested waters. They will amend their course the best they can, but in the long run they have to make port and deliver the goods. Don't think for one moment that they are taking the congested waterways lightly. As mentioned, they are professionals, doing a hard job. Give them room to to do their job. Remember they are delivering the goods that make our lives easier. We are just fishing. A whistle signal from a large vessel would be nice, but don't count on it. Don't whine, pay attention to what is going on around you. When in doubt get out of the way. It is called the General Prudential rule. Generally meaning, avoid collision by stopping or making a positive move.
> By the way, that ship hasn't sailed for American Steamship for about 3 years.


Very thoughtful 1st post. Welcome to OGF!


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

boater53 said:


> Wow! Now you know why I don't fish on the weekends! Too crowded with too many who don't have a clue. Why would you flip the crew the bird? Imagine being the mate on watch or captain of these vessels steaming willy-nilly about trying to dodge all of you anchored (where are your anchor day marks?) boaters(term used loosely). They wouldn't get anywhere. There is always at least 3 crew members on the lookout in congested waters. They will amend their course the best they can, but in the long run they have to make port and deliver the goods. Don't think for one moment that they are taking the congested waterways lightly. As mentioned, they are professionals, doing a hard job. Give them room to to do their job. Remember they are delivering the goods that make our lives easier. We are just fishing. A whistle signal from a large vessel would be nice, but don't count on it. Don't whine, pay attention to what is going on around you. When in doubt get out of the way. It is called the General Prudential rule. Generally meaning, avoid collision by stopping or making a positive move.
> By the way, that ship hasn't sailed for American Steamship for about 3 years.


Thank you I couldn't remember the terminology General Prudential Rule.


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

Sharp Charge said:


> Ok "Shipmate", let's take a look at the rules... We'll start with definitions.
> 
> CFR 33, part 83.03
> 
> ...


You should read what you posted part (g) is what applies in this case. 


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

It is not hard to believe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,on second thought I can believe that there are individuals ignorant enough to think that a freighter should maneuver around a small fishing boat anchored in a potential commercial passage way. Common sense something missing on a lot of posts in this thread. Same thought process used by the individuals that walk behind a vehicle backing out of a parking slot in the Shopping Mall.


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## fishkiller (Feb 6, 2007)

I think one of the big problems in our world today & with many people in todays world is it has become an all about me world. This attitude is very common in driving, boating & everyday life. Common courtesy has become not very common.


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## LenB (Mar 8, 2012)

Well whatever the rules of the water say, when I see a freighter, and I keep a watch for them, I get the he11 out of their way whether anchored or trolling. I don't argue with tractor trailers either. It takes a long time to stop or turn those things. The fish will still be there somewhere.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

mkalink said:


> You should read what you posted part (g) is what applies in this case.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Like I posted, if the OP was anchored in or near the charted traffic lane, then he was the one in the wrong. You and I weren't out there so without his lat/long we can't determine if he was in the lane or not. 

Boater53, Day shapes aren't required for a vessel the size of the OP's.


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## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

Wow. I didnt realize "The Rules" trumped common courtesy these days. Its good to know there are still people out there that think this way. I usually head the other way when I encounter one of these people on the water as they seem to be more dangerous than most out there with me


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

City fisher said:


> Wow. I didnt realize "The Rules" trumped common courtesy these days. Its good to know there are still people out there that think this way. I usually head the other way when I encounter one of these people on the water as they seem to be more dangerous than most out there with me


The problem with common courtesy is that is not that common. Part of common courtesy would include knowing the rules and laws then following them.


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## boater53 (Jun 18, 2013)

Roger that. We all need to remember that a freighter, at speed, needs hundreds of yards to make a course correction. The watchstanders need to realize that your are anchored maybe a half mile away(that's hard with our small craft), then make a change, then maybe close on another vessel. They can't play dodge'em. There aren't too many of them anymore, I think we can yield the road for them. And as you do, admire their majesty and the sailors who man them. Take a class, learn the rules and let us all be safe and courteous.


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## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

But....but.........don't they have some pretty nice radar systems that will show a pack of boats in their way miles before they reach that pack?


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## boater53 (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks snakecharmer.


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## boater53 (Jun 18, 2013)

Sure. Imagine their consternation though, when they see that blob between them and port. Where do you want them to go? Just saying, give the big fellas a bit of room. The fish will still be there when you get back on the hook. Be good.


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

OK, so let me get this. Even though we all know that "many of us" can't even handle maneuvering a small boat at 1 to 2 mph through traffic of other boats who are largely doing the same thing " we" feel justified to lash out at a giant boat traveling along a relatively straight and predictable path? Wow we are a dense self absorbed bunch aren't we.

Its pretty hard not to notice a giant ship headding in your direction and you should have plenty of time to pull anchor and move out of the way, in most cases. I know its easy to get zoned in on the fishing bit a captain needs to have an awareness over his surroundings at all times. 

If you couldn't get started and you saw that they were bearing down in your direction, don't the ships monitor the emergency frequencies? Wouldn't you start by hailing them on the radio and putting a signal flag and a flare out? With enough notice and communication they should be able to veer to one side AND I'd like to think someone else in the pack would come to pick you up or give you a short tow.

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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

He was headed to Ashtabula as he ran right through the Geneva walleye fleet as we were about 4 miles NorthWest of Geneva. (I know that as I heard him talk with Ashtabula harbor regarding ETA) I started making heading changes when he was about 2 miles away so that I would not pass in front of him. We passed about 200 yards on starboard sides.


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## cmiller (Jun 3, 2008)

Fellas, I never fished Loraine yet for perch. Is there a map to show me where these shipping lanes are at so I won't fish those areas?


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Ships fault even though the small boats maneuver easily and ships takes a long ways to even make a turn. Ship should look out for small anchored boats, when a small boat can't see a large ship coming at them. Guess either could blow horns multiple times to alert the other. But its the ships fault again. Small boats fishing for fun where ships are earning a living. But again the small ones are more important. Yep think I understand now.
Make a law that small boats cant fish in any merchant navigable water. Close ports and bays to small boats and recreational fisherman. Then there won't be a problem.
Whatever happened to self responsibility? You don't want run over..move.


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## guppygill (May 8, 2004)

Fished Huron plenty of times when a freighter would come in, I always moved, they never blew a horn. I just fished somewhere else for awhile then come back, fished seemed to hit BETTER. Seems like there is that so called "what about me" problem. From what I understand, some of these boats have preset courses now that they have to follow to save on fuel. Can't quite understand when you don't get your way or something doesnt go your way, or you dont understand the situation you have to give the one finger salute. Lots of that going on nowadays.


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## chrisx28 (Jun 20, 2010)

Once again what happens if I can't get my boat started, Ships fault even though the small boats maneuver easily and ships takes a long ways to even make a turn. I deserve to die because of a law and a preprogrammed ship. WELL THE LAW STATES! The law is wrong when it comes to this, he should be in the 70's and could avoid 95% of the boats. The first time your boat wouldn't start you'd agree....


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## gw2kpro (Jul 5, 2012)

Generally speaking, I tend to try to avoid taking actions that have a high probabliity of killing people, whether at work or at home.

Take the example posted here. 

Whether or not the OP was anchored in a shipping lane, in my world it would be pretty rough to face someone's family after running them over while they were on anchor.

What would you say to them? "Your Dad obviously hasn't read the code of federal regulations, so I ran his butt over and killed him because I have the right of way. If it's any comfort, he probably didn't suffer a whole lot because he got hit by my prop instead of drowning"

And, apparently, there are quite a few that would agree with him.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

viper1 said:


> Ships fault even though the small boats maneuver easily and ships takes a long ways to even make a turn. Ship should look out for small anchored boats, when a small boat can't see a large ship coming at them. Guess either could blow horns multiple times to alert the other. But its the ships fault again. Small boats fishing for fun where ships are earning a living. But again the small ones are more important. Yep think I understand now.
> Make a law that small boats cant fish in any merchant navigable water. Close ports and bays to small boats and recreational fisherman. Then there won't be a problem.
> Whatever happened to self responsibility? You don't want run over..move.



Well said Viper1, especially *"self responsibility"*.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

boater53 said:


> Roger that. We all need to remember that a freighter, at speed, needs hundreds of yards to make a course correction. The watchstanders need to realize that your are anchored maybe a half mile away(that's hard with our small craft), then make a change, then maybe close on another vessel. They can't play dodge'em. There aren't too many of them anymore, I think we can yield the road for them. And as you do, admire their majesty and the sailors who man them. Take a class, learn the rules and let us all be safe and courteous.


I'm not arguing that it's prudent to give freighters ample room if you can. My point was the interpretation that a boat anchored was required to give way to another that's underway, outside of a channel is ridiculous. There are tons of what if's we can add to this and drag it out longer than we already have. 

Whatever you do, be safe. If you think someone is gunning for you, whether a freighter or pleasure boater take a course of action to prevent collision, submit a description and other pertinent info to the USCG. They can hash it out.


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## guppygill (May 8, 2004)

Your just not getting it, maybe we should change ALL LAWS just to appease you the INDIVIDUAL..................


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## chucky"D" (Jul 19, 2007)

When a frieghter comes along you have to move end of story. There are many stories of frieghters running over boats. Rules of the lake like it or not.


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## wanderin_eyes (Jan 14, 2009)

.02 cents. Just had to throw mine in too. 

This debate makes me feel like it's early to mid Feb when cabin fever hits. 
Everyone is say the same thing about get out of the way. You can get mad at the frieghter or say hes right but if... Awww never mind I'm going fishing


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

guppygill said:


> Your just not getting it, maybe we should change ALL LAWS just to appease you the INDIVIDUAL..................


No sir, I get it just fine. There's no need to change the laws, they're already there for EVERYONE to follow. It's not the bigger boat wins over everybody, it's everyone follow the rules of the road aka the CFR that was discussed before. If I'm legally anchored up in open water outside of any channel or traffic lane and below deck in the cabin, maybe the sun was getting to me so I decide to take a nap. I can't see a freighter or any other boat boresighting me or pack of boats assuming they'll move because he's bigger. That's why the laws are established, to keep us all safe. 

Never once did my aircraft carrier try and run over pleasure boaters....


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## jimski2 (Jul 23, 2010)

The first question your insurance asks is "WHAT DID YOU DO TO AVOID THE ACCIDENT? ". It will not help to say "NOTHING ".


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## Bigjoe (Aug 13, 2011)




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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

I like your emoticon Big Joe!! very nice...I been trying to sit back and enjoy the view but it just amazes me that this is still ongoing.... now I dont fish Erie but fish the Ohio River all the time and at night, we get the spotlight in a sweeping fashion, then if you get it for a longr length of time, you move, if you dont then you get the horn. after that you are ground up hamburger. Now durring the day, we often fish all around the dams and around the barge cells so we deal with the captains nonstop. most are comforrtable passing next to you by less then 100 ft with no problems. and Ive been free drifting and had them be within maybe 40 feet with no problems. its like driving your car, where you have to accept reponsibility for yourself as well as assume the other driver knows whats going on at the same time. 

Ok here is an honest queston.. if your on Erie and anchored.. do you fly a certain flag for that or how would the freighter know you were anchored vs difting since so much of this conversation is hinged on anchored right of way vs non anchored right of way?? 

Salmonid


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Oh no, people telling the OP he's wrong and needs to move so close the thread! Nothing against you OP, I may have made the same post myself, its really about a thread from the other day. 

Salmonid, I'd say they could tell by your navigation lights(red/green) which are required as long as you arent at anchor(just white). Although the great lakes may have different regs, I'm not sure.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

Salmonid said:


> I like your emoticon Big Joe!! very nice...I been trying to sit back and enjoy the view but it just amazes me that this is still ongoing.... now I dont fish Erie but fish the Ohio River all the time and at night, we get the spotlight in a sweeping fashion, then if you get it for a longr length of time, you move, if you dont then you get the horn. after that you are ground up hamburger. Now durring the day, we often fish all around the dams and around the barge cells so we deal with the captains nonstop. most are comforrtable passing next to you by less then 100 ft with no problems. and Ive been free drifting and had them be within maybe 40 feet with no problems. its like driving your car, where you have to accept reponsibility for yourself as well as assume the other driver knows whats going on at the same time.
> 
> Ok here is an honest queston.. if your on Erie and anchored.. do you fly a certain flag for that or how would the freighter know you were anchored vs difting since so much of this conversation is hinged on anchored right of way vs non anchored right of way??
> 
> Salmonid


Here's the whole rule (30) on it. 

_§ 83.30 Anchored vessels and vessels aground (Rule 30).

(a) Vessels at anchor. A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(1) In the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball; and

(2) At or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (1), an all-round white light.

(b) Vessels of less than 50 meters in length; alternative light. A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) Illumination of decks. A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters or more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

(d) Vessels aground. A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, if practicable, where they can best be seen:

(1) Two all-round red lights in a vertical line; and

(2) Three balls in a vertical line.

(e) Vessels of less than 7 meters in length when at anchor. A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway, anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(f) Vessels of less than 12 meters in length when aground. A vessel of less than 12 meters in length when aground shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (d)(1) and (2) of this Rule.

(g) Vessels of less than 20 meters in length while at anchor in special anchorage. A vessel of less than 20 meters in length, when at anchor in a special anchorage area designated by the Secretary, shall not be required to exhibit the anchor lights and shapes required by this Rule._

Vessels over a certain length are required to fly what are called day shapes. These are usually flown from the mast. Different shapes indicate different things. So for a vessel at anchor 1 black ball is flown. If the vessel is hard aground, 3 black balls in a vertical line, the way we remembered it Navy wise was if you see 3 black balls, 3 heads will roll (CO, XO, Navigator) of the ship that ran aground. A ball, diamond, ball flying means the vessel is restricted in it's ability to maneuver, etc. There are also lighting configurations for night time recognition.


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## FSZ (Mar 12, 2009)

What a thread! Makes me realize I should take a boating class.

That said, I fish in Erie in very small craft (14-18) over the years. Since I am always very close to shore, never had problems with commercial operators. However, plenty of guys in 20-30 foot boats consistently create massive boat wakes within 100 yards and nearly swamp me. And half the time, its another fisherman.


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

FSZ said:


> What a thread! Makes me realize I should take a boating class.
> 
> That said, I fish in Erie in very small craft (14-18) over the years. Since I am always very close to shore, never had problems with commercial operators. However, plenty of guys in 20-30 foot boats consistently create massive boat wakes within 100 yards and nearly swamp me. And half the time, its another fisherman.


I don't have time to look it up but there is a boating law that states you are responsible for your wake. I will look it up and post it later. I run a 32' boat and I am always watching for smaller boats. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Sharp,
thanks for the post. I doubt any of us recreational boaters meet the length of vessel that is required to exhibit "day shapes" while anchored.

Bottom line, these freighters aren't like 6 pack charters that can weave in and out. Hell, it takes them something like 2 miles to come to a complete stop! Sure ,maybe a horn blast would be nice, but it's really all about situational awareness. Hopefully we are all looking around in a 360 direction from time to time, whether trolling or perching. If you see a big boat coming, pull anchor and get out of his way.


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