# Steel Head Question



## meathelmet (Aug 4, 2008)

Now that I am two months into fly fishing I am ready for the steel head run in Cleveland.

What are your thoughts on rod strength from a two piece to a 5 piece? I have heard different arguments from it coming apart eventually to if you seat it properly there should be no issue.

I have a 5 piece but leaning towards a two piece....

What do you guys think?

P.S. Anybody want to go this fall? I will drive!


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## HipWader (Jun 25, 2013)

I use a 9' 2 piece 5/6 weight rod...but I load it with a 7 weight to help turn over my steelhead fly's which are bulky...a 2 piece or 4 piece doesn't mater...what matters is that you have plenty of backing on the fly reel with an adjustable drag....They don't call em Chrome Bullets for nothing !.....I only use 1 fly for targeting Steelhead...the Zonker Bonker tied on a #6 steelhead hook and I use Rabbit Zonker 1/4 strips in White, Yellow, Orange and Hot Pink....the body is crystal chenille with dumbell eyes in white with black pupils....You can catch me from Morley Ford and Downstream in back of Tyler Field during the steelhead season......

Tite Lines !!

Mike

:B:B


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## meathelmet (Aug 4, 2008)

Thank for the info, I have been told not to you less than a 7 wt. I have a 9' 8wt...is that too heavy for a beginner?


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

I fish for steelhead with both a 2 piece and a 4 piece. No problems with the 4pc, just occasionally make sure the sections are secure.


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## flytyer (Jan 3, 2005)

I use a 4 pc 8wt for steelhead. Like fishinnick said just make sure they stay together. An 8wt isn't overkill, and if you ever decide to fish for salmon you'll already have the rod for them.


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## meathelmet (Aug 4, 2008)

Copy that thanks fellas


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## Flymaker (Jan 24, 2013)

A little tip to help keeping the rod together.....If you are using desent quality rod the ferrels should fit well....but this helps and it protects the rod from wear.....Get a piece of wax....and carry it in your vest..before you put the rod together rub the wax lighly on the male end and kinda work it around with your fingers...the heat from your fingers will spread it around well......I use bow string wax that Ive had for yr's.....this not only helps the rod stay together but it also prevents the sections from getting stuck...which is another pain in the hinder......also the wax protects the rod finish from wearing at the ferrels and lossening over time......I have had a rod come apart on a cast, not only is it embarassing but it also cracks the female ferrel of the rod.....and I have had a rod stuck together which I had to wait till I got home and grab it with those rubber bottle opening thingy's.....none of these have ever happened again after using wax on the ferrels....Bow string wax is what i use ....but craft stores sell wax for crafts....a pice the size of a quarter and about a 1/4'' thick will last the rest of your life......


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## meathelmet (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks fly!


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

I still haven't caught a steelhead on any kind of rod and have wanted to for a few years. My father in law lives in vermilion, where I've tried a few times in the fall, but I think it's more of a spring thing there. I certainly wouldn't mind trying one of the rivers further east this fall.


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## Yakphisher (Jul 9, 2013)

You can use any rod wt that you like but it all comes down to how you fight them. Making sure you rod it snug and not loose but after making many casts do recheck because all the chucking and ducking will loosen up the rod connections and that is where the troubles lay ahead of you.


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## ejsell (May 3, 2012)

I used a 4 piece 8wt. last season during a week long steelhead trip and didn't have any issues with it, like fishinnick said, just make sure to check every once in a while. The 4 piece is more travel friendly than my two piece. The butt was definitely a plus on my 8 wt when I hooked into big fish. I had a bruise from it on my stomach for about a week afterwards.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

meathelmet said:


> Now that I am two months into fly fishing I am ready for the steel head run in Cleveland.
> 
> What are your thoughts on rod strength from a two piece to a 5 piece? I have heard different arguments from it coming apart eventually to if you seat it properly there should be no issue.
> 
> ...


I would say the 8wt is fine. I have an 8wt 4 pc but I don't even use it. After I found out about a center pin that's all I do for chrome. That and I use bait or jigs.

I live in Elmore. If you ever want me to show you around let me know. I'm right on your way. Use what you want, we don't frown on fly guys. I usually just chuckle a bit because the fish catching usually isn't happening.

Like I mentioned I don't use the fly rod because I believe that it's not near as productive. Using a fly rod with an indicator makes no sense to me at all for chrome unless you just like to have short drifts and like a fly rod. Using a streamer is about the only thing that makes sense for a fly rod and steelhead.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Lundfish said:


> I would say the 8wt is fine. I have an 8wt 4 pc but I don't even use it. After I found out about a center pin that's all I do for chrome. That and I use bait or jigs.
> 
> I live in Elmore. If you ever want me to show you around let me know. I'm right on your way. Use what you want, we don't frown on fly guys. I usually just chuckle a bit because the fish catching usually isn't happening.
> 
> Like I mentioned I don't use the fly rod because I believe that it's not near as productive. Using a fly rod with an indicator makes no sense to me at all for chrome unless you just like to have short drifts and like a fly rod. Using a streamer is about the only thing that makes sense for a fly rod and steelhead.



Using a gun is a lot more productive than using a bow to hunt with, too, but for some people using the bow is more exciting, more enjoyable, and more challenging. To each his/her own. If all you care about is numbers and whacking fish, keep chucking bait. For some people, that's not all there is. Do what makes you happy. If that happiness for you is finding the perfect way to drift an egg sack, knock yourself out.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

TheCream said:


> Using a gun is a lot more productive than using a bow to hunt with, too, but for some people using the bow is more exciting, more enjoyable, and more challenging. To each his/her own. If all you care about is numbers and whacking fish, keep chucking bait. For some people, that's not all there is. Do what makes you happy. If that happiness for you is finding the perfect way to drift an egg sack, knock yourself out.


Happiness for me is catching fish, not fishing so much. You know how some people say; "well look at the awesome scenery, we can enjoy that since we're not catching fish?" I only think to myself; "how can I catch them?" It just happens that bait works way way better than not.

Like I said; use what you want, we don't frown on fly guys. Which means that I said precisely what you said...only you left that part out or maybe you didn't see it.

Why don't you comment to yourself if you just want an argument...or PM me if you have a problem.


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

Lund,
I'm sure you are an impressive fisherman, after all your avatar shows you holding a fish 4 feet away from your body, to give an accurate scale. 
But, Not everyone needs to use bait or a treble hook to catch a trout. You are commenting on a fly fishing blog for someone who asks about using a fly rod. Maybe you have become enlightened by your centerpin with a tiny worm drifting below your bobber. The truth is the steelhead is a great fighter on any rod.


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

Meathelmet,
I use a 7 wt most of the time but an 8 wt comes in handy in faster water conditions. The fly that Hipwader shows is very similar to a fly I have caught 50% of my fish on. I'm going to tie a few more with his color combos to try out. Thank you Hipwader. I have found white zonker with fire orange belly is my number one fly for most conditions except muddy water. Then I use a purple zonker with fire orange belly in the same fly. 

It is a blast, have fun,
Rickerd


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Lundfish said:


> Happiness for me is catching fish, not fishing so much. You know how some people say; "well look at the awesome scenery, we can enjoy that since we're not catching fish?" I only think to myself; "how can I catch them?" It just happens that bait works way way better than not.
> 
> Like I said; use what you want, we don't frown on fly guys. Which means that I said precisely what you said...only you left that part out or maybe you didn't see it.
> 
> Why don't you comment to yourself if you just want an argument...or PM me if you have a problem.


I wouldn't have replied at all if you hadn't mentioned you chuckle at the fly fishermen. You got your jab in, I got mine in. Fair enough? 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7bynsVfuKg[/ame]


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

TheCream said:


> ...If all you care about is numbers and whacking fish, keep chucking bait. For some people, that's not all there is. Do what makes you happy. If that happiness for you is finding the perfect way to drift an egg sack, knock yourself out.


My thoughts exactly, and I only have one fly-rod steelhead season under my belt. There were even a couple trips, where another fisherman came and fished the same hole (which is rare, I like my space!) with sacs, and I outfished him with my sucker spawn patterns. One of the guys even made a comment that he was going to buy a fly rod and learn!

All in all, for steelies, I've been several times more productive with my fly rod, than I ever was with my spin gear. Call it beginners luck, or operator error with the spin gear, I don't care. Fact is, I enjoy doing it!

As far as the OP, I use a 4 piece and haven't had a problem with it yet!


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm happy with my catch rate fly fishing. And fwiw, I've out fishing pinners several times, but they've outfished me several times. Each style of fishing has it's time and place, but one isn't any better than the other. The person using it is in charge of how effective it is. 

I agree with the others a 9ft 8wt is good. Most people say a 10ft 7wt is ideal on our tribs, which I would agree(even though I don't have one) but your 8wt will get the job done.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

Here is my point fly fisherman only guys: Using an indicator and drifting nymphs or sucker spawn with a flyrod is a lot less productive. I not only use bait with my pin but I also use nymphs and sucker spawn with it. Your drifts are so much shorter that to me it is completely pointless.

If you don't think that there is a better way then keep using your fly rod, that is great. I was simply giving the original poster another point of view. That point of view being to use streamers and an 8wt. Which I see no difference between a 4 or 2pc rod besides easier to travel with. I have never used a 5pc.

You guys crack me up that are so defensive about your precious flyfishing. It is a tool used to catch fish. I caught a dozen trout tonight on my 4wt using dry flies and nymphs that I tied. Just so you know I'm not an anti fly guy which I thought I clarified earlier. There are plenty of guys I know that use the fly rod too and use bait. There's a time and a place for each. I have found that I catch a lot more fish. I can go a LOT deeper when fish are in deep holes down low that won't move until its in their face. I can also have a 100 foot drag free drift which I've caught a lot of fish on using sucker spawn or jigs and no bait.

To each their own.

Btw that's a 15 pound king I caught on a spoon trolling and the pic was taken in the back of a small 16ft boat. Hard to make a king look bigger than it actually is in conditions like that 




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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

Lundfish said:


> Here is my point fly fisherman only guys: Using an indicator and drifting nymphs or sucker spawn with a flyrod is a lot less productive. I not only use bait with my pin but I also use nymphs and sucker spawn with it. Your drifts are so much shorter that to me it is completely pointless.



Other than shorter drifts, how does it make no sense to indicator nymph with a fly rod?? Yes, instead of having one huge drift to cover a pool, your making multiple smaller drifts. But it still catches fish(and lots of them), which is the goal here. You think nymph fishing in say Montana is pointless also? Sure you're covering less water per cast but but if it works(which it does) than that's all that matters. Yeah, overall one may be more effective, but going back to my previous post it also depends on the user. An experienced indicator nymph fisherman can make the technique effective, and the same with pinners. Why would anyone fish a technique that's not effective? Indicator nymphing has proved to be effective by lots of people, and the same with pinning.



> You guys crack me up that are so defensive about your precious flyfishing. It is a tool used to catch fish. I caught a dozen trout tonight on my 4wt using dry flies and nymphs that I tied. Just so you know I'm not an anti fly guy which I thought I clarified earlier. There are plenty of guys I know that use the fly rod too and use bait. There's a time and a place for each. I have found that I catch a lot more fish. I can go a LOT deeper when fish are in deep holes down low that won't move until its in their face. I can also have a 100 foot drag free drift which I've caught a lot of fish on using sucker spawn or jigs and no bait.


Agreed. Even though I mostly fly fish, I also spin fish and almost always have a spinning rod in the vehicle even on "fly fishing only" outings. There's a time and place for everything, but there's also a lot of times when one technique can work just as well as the other at any given time. I wouldn't call any technique "pointless", just different ways to fish and they require different approaches, but they both can be effective if you know what you're doing. 

I guess we can all agree to disagree. Here's to a good fall steelhead run... :Banane08:


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## meathelmet (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks for all the info and respect all different opinions. 

I went to Cabelas asking to see a center pin and they told me to go look in the "bait chunker" section. I found an associate and he had to go in the back room to pull out one....an Okuma which was beautifully designed and free spun for a long time. He had nothing to say about it but "sure seems expensive"........funny there were some Abu Garcias, Pfluegers, etc.. that cost the same or more.

Now I cannot decide if I want to try a center pin this fall or bring my 8wt or a spin caster on a noodle rod or a center pin......

No matter what I will have fun, thanks to all my fellow lurkers for the advice.


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

meathelmet said:


> I went to Cabelas asking to see a center pin and they told me to go look in the "bait chunker" section.


Did they really say that? Wow. 




> No matter what I will have fun,


And that's what it's all about.


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## HipWader (Jun 25, 2013)

I have tried that center pin fishing method and it works ok....I have caught some fish with it...the Pin fishing allows long floats....but that's not the point were all trying to make....this is "fish on the fly" section and not "Bait float fishing"...if you want to try the "Poormans version of the Pin method...just get a empty fly reel with drag setting and fill it with mono instead of backing and flyline....then throw your bait (Worms, maggots, minnows) into the river and let out mono as the float goes down the river....you will catch more fish...live bait will always do better than artificials or anything else and that is a fact...but when I catch my 2 or 3 Steelhead up at the Rocky River I can claim I caught them on something I tied and not purchased like live bait....whether you fish with a spinning rod and reel, baitcaster, fly rod....it makes no difference each fisherman has their own methods and what works for them may not work for you...so keep your fly rod and use flies for catching those Chrome Bullets...try landing a 5 pound Steelhead on a 5x tippet sometime....it's all worth it.

PS: A friend of mine who I will not mention has Center Pin rod and reel combo in the 11' and when we fish together it's always been a 50-50 tie...sometimes he will outfish me....other times I will outfish him....

The point being.....go out and enjoy yourself and catch some fish !!

Tite Lines !!

Mike


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

HipWader said:


> PS: A friend of mine who I will not mention has Center Pin rod and reel combo in the 11' and when we fish together it's always been a 50-50 tie...sometimes he will outfish me....other times I will outfish him....
> 
> The point being.....go out and enjoy yourself and catch some fish !!
> 
> ...


This pretty much sums up what I'm trying to get at. 


And about the 5x......I've done that before and I'll never make that mistake again lol. But that's a whole 'nuther thread.....


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## Siskiefu (Mar 20, 2012)

You could fish with flies on the centerpin  hence 'fly' fishing 


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

meathelmet said:


> Thanks for all the info and respect all different opinions.
> 
> I went to Cabelas asking to see a center pin and they told me to go look in the "bait chunker" section. I found an associate and he had to go in the back room to pull out one....an Okuma which was beautifully designed and free spun for a long time. He had nothing to say about it but "sure seems expensive"........funny there were some Abu Garcias, Pfluegers, etc.. that cost the same or more.
> 
> ...


If you want to start with the fly rod...since that's what you started doing; it'll save you money. I have over $1000 in my recent pin set up. Not saying you have to go that high, but you're probably looking at $250 anyway. Look me up if you want me to show you around the river.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

fishinnick said:


> Other than shorter drifts, how does it make no sense to indicator nymph with a fly rod?? Yes, instead of having one huge drift to cover a pool, your making multiple smaller drifts. But it still catches fish(and lots of them), which is the goal here. You think nymph fishing in say Montana is pointless also? Sure you're covering less water per cast but but if it works(which it does) than that's all that matters. Yeah, overall one may be more effective, but going back to my previous post it also depends on the user. An experienced indicator nymph fisherman can make the technique effective, and the same with pinners. Why would anyone fish a technique that's not effective? Indicator nymphing has proved to be effective by lots of people, and the same with pinning.


It cannot be as effective in deep pools. This is one reason I started to pin. Unless of course you have say a 12' leader and have your fly set 9' below an indicator in a 9 1/2' deep pool. Good luck casting that effectively 
With a pin or even a spinning rod, a large section of water...say bank to bank and 100 yards long could be thoroughly fished in a matter of minutes. It's going to take you 50 times as long to cover the same water. That is not an exaggeration. While you mend and mend and mend to get sometimes a 1 foot drag free drift I will be at the next hole. With the poor visibility in most of our OH rivers I can't afford that expense of time.


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## toobnoob (Jun 1, 2010)

Lundfish said:


> It cannot be as effective in deep pools. This is one reason I started to pin. Unless of course you have say a 12' leader and have your fly set 9' below an indicator in a 9 1/2' deep pool. Good luck casting that effectively
> With a pin or even a spinning rod, a large section of water...say bank to bank and 100 yards long could be thoroughly fished in a matter of minutes. It's going to take you 50 times as long to cover the same water. That is not an exaggeration. While you mend and mend and mend to get sometimes a 1 foot drag free drift I will be at the next hole. With the poor visibility in most of our OH rivers I can't afford that expense of time.


The pin is defiantly the better tool for float/indicator fishing. Long drag free drifts are what it is built for. The fly rod on the other hand is more versatile and thats why I prefer it. You dont have to indicator fish for steelhead and most of my chrome is caught swinging streamers on a sink tip. The fly setup offers way more options than most other setups and I feel I can adapt better to any given situation with my fly rod. Now granted when its 25 degrees out and small icebergs are floating all over the river, float fishing with a ton of weight on a pin or spin setup is probably going to have better success than a fly rod.

The bottom line is fish with what you like and dont worry about what everybody else thinks is better. What is better for you may not be better for someone else or more enjoyable.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

toobnoob said:


> The pin is defiantly the better tool for float/indicator fishing. Long drag free drifts are what it is built for. The fly rod on the other hand is more versatile and thats why I prefer it. You dont have to indicator fish for steelhead and most of my chrome is caught swinging streamers on a sink tip. The fly setup offers way more options than most other setups and I feel I can adapt better to any given situation with my fly rod. Now granted when its 25 degrees out and small icebergs are floating all over the river, float fishing with a ton of weight on a pin or spin setup is probably going to have better success than a fly rod.
> 
> The bottom line is fish with what you like and dont worry about what everybody else thinks is better. What is better for you may not be better for someone else or more enjoyable.


Well said.


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## meathelmet (Aug 4, 2008)

So I could go cheaper and buy an Okuma Noodle Rod and you a regular spin caster if there is icerbergs and bring the 7 wt as well?

https://www.okumafishing.com/product/view/rods/salmon-steelhead/connoisseur


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## toobnoob (Jun 1, 2010)

meathelmet said:


> So I could go cheaper and buy an Okuma Noodle Rod and you a regular spin caster if there is icerbergs and bring the 7 wt as well?
> 
> https://www.okumafishing.com/product/view/rods/salmon-steelhead/connoisseur


Sure can, the spin setup isn't as specialized as the pin setup but it will work better the fly setup if there is heavy slush.

The reason being is you can use a large float with plenty of weight so it will punch through the slush. It's difficult to do that with a fly setup. My general rule is if it's below 28 I stay home tying flies and drinking coffee  I don't have a spin setup for steelhead anymore.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Lundfish said:


> It cannot be as effective in deep pools. This is one reason I started to pin. Unless of course you have say a 12' leader and have your fly set 9' below an indicator in a 9 1/2' deep pool. Good luck casting that effectively
> With a pin or even a spinning rod, a large section of water...say bank to bank and 100 yards long could be thoroughly fished in a matter of minutes. It's going to take you 50 times as long to cover the same water. That is not an exaggeration. While you mend and mend and mend to get sometimes a 1 foot drag free drift I will be at the next hole. With the poor visibility in most of our OH rivers I can't afford that expense of time.


What I think you are missing is that effectiveness is not the #1 motivator for me wanting to fly fish instead of center pinning. It's the same reason I would try to archery hunt in places where gun hunting would be more effective...I don't want to use a gun. It doesn't appeal to me. If it does for you, awesome. Knock yourself out and enjoy it. I fly fish for carp a lot. Is it more effective to chum an area and use boilies on hair rigs with high-tech strike alarms on 10' spinning rods? Heck yes, but that does not appeal to me. I'd prefer to fly fish for them, sight fishing in difficult conditions to tough fish. I don't care that I may only catch 2 fish to your 10, I feel like I challenged myself a little more and had a more enjoyable experience than I would have if I had chummed and tossed out bait. That's not exciting to me, even though I would catch more fish. I'm sure this probably makes no sense to you, which is why you use the pin.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

TheCream said:


> What I think you are missing is that effectiveness is not the #1 motivator for me wanting to fly fish instead of center pinning. It's the same reason I would try to archery hunt in places where gun hunting would be more effective...I don't want to use a gun. It doesn't appeal to me. If it does for you, awesome. Knock yourself out and enjoy it. I fly fish for carp a lot. Is it more effective to chum an area and use boilies on hair rigs with high-tech strike alarms on 10' spinning rods? Heck yes, but that does not appeal to me. I'd prefer to fly fish for them, sight fishing in difficult conditions to tough fish. I don't care that I may only catch 2 fish to your 10, I feel like I challenged myself a little more and had a more enjoyable experience than I would have if I had chummed and tossed out bait. That's not exciting to me, even though I would catch more fish. I'm sure this probably makes no sense to you, which is why you use the pin.


I see your point of view. Some like myself like catching fish more than just fishing itself. I fish in anticipation of catching a fish. I find fighting a fish on a pin a lot more challenging also. Feeling every single headshake, knowing the fish will run, and when he does I am the drag, not a mechanical gear in the reel.

Although I see your point of view I don't understand it. Why go through more agony of trying to catch fish when you can catch more? I respect that this is what you like to do...yet don't understand it. To each their own. What I posted was not meant to insult. I'm looking forward to getting home tonight and tie up some madam X hoppers and fly fishing on Saturday. I like the fly rod as much as the next guy...just not married to it. We got divorced a few years ago when I caught my first Chinook on a spawn bag


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

meathelmet said:


> So I could go cheaper and buy an Okuma Noodle Rod and you a regular spin caster if there is icerbergs and bring the 7 wt as well?
> 
> https://www.okumafishing.com/product/view/rods/salmon-steelhead/connoisseur


When there's slush, I pretty much forget it. Usually the water is good even when the air temp is below freezing...at least for a couple of days if flows are good. (You need to learn flows on OH rivers) If it gets really cold at night around 10 degrees, even when flows are up, you may as well forget it. Spinning rod or pin you're pretty much screwed. I fish with a pin when it is below freezing and a lot of guys don't, they use spinning gear. My winter rod has fly guides for about half of the rod and that keeps the ice down.

One of my best days in January was during an Alberta Clipper. The slush was starting to form. I had to keep biting my float to keep the ice off. I had to break ice to even be able to land fish. Ended with 5 or 6 10+ pounders and not a soul in sight. Then the slush became too much. Not to mention the wind and snow was getting a little brutal. That type of fishing requires a lot of patience...and you may not catch a single fish!


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