# Ohio hook quantity rule-Question



## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

I have a question/comment, and would like to hear others opinions.
Ohio fishing regulation ruling on hook quantity.
All of my data is coming from this OHIO FISHING REGULATIONS 2020-2021 pdf 
In the regulations it states hook quantity's for fishing types. Sometimes they denote single hook, then specify (not to include treble hooks).
Is a treble hook 1 hook or 3? A google search told me that a treble hook is (1) hook because it shares a shank. I've heard and read that it is one hook. But I've not found it in official documentation. If it is true that sharing the shank makes it one hook, and you take the mention of a single hook (not treble hook) for it's word. Then a bi hook or quad hook would still be legal...
My belief is that the initial intent of a hook would be single point. And a treble hook should count as 3 hooks. If this were true then most crank baits would be illegal. Based on page 16 of this document that states no more than 3 hooks.
I tried to research what the Ohio Administrative Code says, and I only found this: 
"(E) It shall be unlawful for any person, while fishing from March first through April thirtieth, to have attached to their line:
(1) More than one single hook or;
(2) Any double hook or;
(3) Any treble hook or;
(4) More than one lure or;
(5) Any lure having more than one single hook or;
(6) Any hook larger than one-half inch from shank to point;
In the following areas of the lake Erie sport fishing district:
(a) Maumee river from the Grand Rapids Providence dam to a line in Maumee bay from Little cedar point to Turtle island.
(b) Sandusky river from the Waterworks dam, city of Tiffin, Seneca county to a line in Sandusky bay that runs one quarter mile east of and parallel to the full length of the railroad bridge in Sandusky bay (from N 41 degrees 29' 35.4 ", W 82 degrees 49' 18.0 " to N 41 degrees 28' 02.4 ", w 82 degrees 47' 58.2 ").
(c) Portage river from the state route 19 bridge upstream to the dam at Elmore.
(d) Mahoning river from the dam at Berlin reservoir to lake Milton."
Which is for specific areas. I assume to prevent snag fishing spawning fish. But it seems to try and specify one single hook, as one with a single point.

It seems to me that it would make sense for Ohio to specify:
A treble hook as (1) hook or (3), or a hook quantity refers to a hook with up to 3 points... IDK, but they can do better.
Also to differentiate between live bait and artificial lures. It seems likely to me that these rules were originally written for the intent of preventing over harvesting, and were written assuming live bait being used.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

A treble is one hook. Lures with 4 trebles such as some Flatfish and Radtke Pike Lures are illegal to use in Ohio.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

many original rules were made to prevent snagging during spawning runs.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

Snakecharmer said:


> A treble is one hook. Lures with 4 trebles such as some Flatfish and Radtke Pike Lures are illegal to use in Ohio.


Where is the official documentation that a treble hook is one hook?


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## itsbeal (Aug 9, 2005)

I believe that in the references mentioned to by ccriley above, it’s all about the river fishing during the spring walleye run/spawn. While fishing the waters mentioned above, *DONT GET CAUGHT* with a treble hook during the times mentioned. I believe you’ll be receiving an *AWARD* from the game warden if checked. IMHO


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

CCRiley2 said:


> Where is the official documentation that a treble hook is one hook?


Is it called a treble hook or treble hooks??...not hard to figure out for yourself bud...a treble hook is ONE three prong hook.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I think some folks have too much time to overthink things.


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## DeathFromAbove (Oct 21, 2008)

No treble hooks in the Maumee or Sandusky, and Maumee bay or the other afore mentioned streams until May 
You'll be buying a new fishing pole and paying a fine if you get caught with them Its hard to find good hair jigs for the bay without a stinger treble on them I have used them jigging in the bay for that reason, wouldn't be caught dead with one in the river


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## DeathFromAbove (Oct 21, 2008)

When you stated most crank baits would be illegal in those streams you are correct No Bass fishing with cranks in those streams until May


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

johnboy111711 said:


> many original rules were made to prevent snagging during spawning runs.


Ding, Ding, Ding, winner answer.

A very common ice fishing violation, A jigging rap with the nose hook, tail hook and under belly treble is within the 3 hook limit however hang a stinger hook from the belly treble and it is not legal.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

For clarity on the above here are some scenarios...
1. sabiki rigs-can only have 3 hooks on a line to be legal
2. jerk baits that have 3 treble hooks-legal, except in the aforementioned scenarios
3. drop shots can have a max of 3 hooks on them
4. alabama rigs can have as many arms on the rig as you want, but only 3 can have actual hooks. the number of dummy baits is unlimited.
5. trolling dropper rigs- bottom crank bait can have a max of 2 treble hooks, top bait can have a max of one hook (spoon, swimbait, live bait, ect)
*6. downrigger- (This is a common way people try and poach) a down rigger connect to a line can have 1-3 hooks. you can add baits on a fixed line to your down rigger if it has no more than three hooks combined with the line connected to the down rigger. But this now makes the down rigger a second pole. So, this would now limit how many rods you run on each side.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

I don't understand why people would get offended or get feel threatened to such a simple question. I am only here to ask how Ohio regulations define a single hook. 
I don't care what answer you believe, or what word of mouth rulings are. I understand that you all have formulated your own understanding, but I haven't found it clearly defined in Ohio regulations. What would be the ruling in the courts?

I don't care about the specific referenced administrative code. I was only stating that that's the only reference to hook quantity's I could find.

If the definition of a single hook is defined as having one shank, then can you create a octo-hook?

What length shank breaks the rule of a single shank? What if I made a A rig with each wire forming a hook, and the head of the a rig being the shank?

The word "treble" refers to 3 parts. In that sense the definition is 3-hook. So the statement of weather it's plural is irrelevant. If fact the name suggest (1)"3-hook". It would be a double plural to say (1)"3-hooks"


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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

we run into similar issues when fishing inside the Smokey Mountains National Park. in artificial only sections, have to cut points off our spinners so that only have one point left. know the rules and regulations of location...


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

CCRiley2 said:


> I don't understand why people would get offended or get feel threatened to such a simple question. I am only here to ask how Ohio regulations define a single hook.
> I don't care what answer you believe, or what word of mouth rulings are. I understand that you all have formulated your own understanding, but I haven't found it clearly defined in Ohio regulations. What would be the ruling in the courts?
> 
> I don't care about the specific referenced administrative code. I was only stating that that's the only reference to hook quantity's I could find.
> ...


wasn't trying to offend and certainly wasn't offended. I have had the same questions and did the research. That being said, here are some more answers. A hook refers to a shank with a bend and a point. It does not limit the amount of points, however, adding more points limits the hooking ability. there is usually a gap quotient associated between the hook point and shaft that makes hooks more or less effective. there also had to be space around each point to make it effective. more points often limit penetration due to resistance.
For shank length, there isn't a rule. However, in some states they limit the gap space. this is all to limit the ability to snag or impale a fishes body on the hook. Ohio does not state this.
An A rig has arms that you can attach hooks to. as long as each arm is not shaped into a hook, then you are fine. they would count the jig heads attached to the A rig as a each hook. 
Treble does refer to three. but a treble hook has three points, not three separate, individual hooks. It is defined as a single hook with three points.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

I did some more digging in the Administrative code. Found this:

(D)"Angling" means fishing with not more than two hand lines, not more than two units of rod and line, or a combination of not more than one hand line and one rod and line, either in hand or under control at any time while fishing. The hand line or rod and line shall have attached to it not more than three baited hooks, or not more than three artificial fly rod lures, or one artificial bait casting lure equipped with not more than three sets of three hooks each.
Seems they define a treble hook as "three hooks". It does differentiate for artificial lure too. I would read this to say that if using live bait, you can only have 3 single pointed hooks.
I would still argue that you could make an umbrella rig with the wires forming a hook and call it two big treble hooks (or two sets of three hooks). Their definition could use some work.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

yup


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

CCRiley2 said:


> I did some more digging in the Administrative code. Found this:
> 
> (D)"Angling" means fishing with not more than two hand lines, not more than two units of rod and line, or a combination of not more than one hand line and one rod and line, either in hand or under control at any time while fishing. The hand line or rod and line shall have attached to it not more than three baited hooks, or not more than three artificial fly rod lures, or one artificial bait casting lure equipped with not more than three sets of three hooks each.
> Seems they define a treble hook as "three hooks". It does differentiate for artificial lure too. I would read this to say that if using live bait, you can only have 3 single pointed hooks.
> I would still argue that you could make an umbrella rig with the wires forming a hook and call it two big treble hooks (or two sets of three hooks). Their definition could use some work.


It says not more than 3 sets of 3 hooks...yes it's 3 hooks, but 3 hooks are considered 1 set...one treble is actually 3 hooks but it's not looked at like that...or 3 points if you wanna refer to them as that...yes, treble is considered one hook.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Shad Rap said:


> .


question? why do you always, after commenting, use . Trademark?


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## snagless-1 (Oct 26, 2014)

I need a nap............


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

Upland said:


> question? why do you always, after commenting, use . Trademark?


No...it was an error when replying...like a double post, so I just deleted it and put a period there...because there has to be something in the content, you can't just delete your post.
This new format gets me sometimes.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

snagless-1 said:


> I need a nap............


Dreams of treble hooks dancing in your head????


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

Shad Rap said:


> It says not more than 3 sets of 3 hooks...yes it's 3 hooks, but 3 hooks are considered 1 set...one treble is actually 3 hooks but it's not looked at like that...or 3 points if you wanna refer to them as that...yes, treble is considered one hook.


What? you said a treble hook is 3 hooks. Yes, treble is considered one hook. Nowhere does it say a treble hook is one hook.

The way I read the ruling you can't have more than 3 baited hooks, and you can't have 3 baited treble hooks either. Because you'd have 9 baited hooks.
You can have 9 hooks on an artificial lure, but you can't pair them in a set greater than 3, and you can't have more that 3 sets. I know math is hard...


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

CCRiley2 said:


> What? you said a treble hook is 3 hooks. Yes, treble is considered one hook. Nowhere does it say a treble hook is one hook.
> 
> The way I read the ruling you can't have more than 3 baited hooks, and you can't have 3 baited treble hooks either. Because you'd have 9 baited hooks.
> You can have 9 hooks on an artificial lure, but you can't pair them in a set greater than 3, and you can't have more that 3 sets. I know math is hard...


You can have 3 treble hooks...meaning 9 points for 3 hooks...lol...I thought we all understood what a treble HOOK was?..I didn't make up the terminology man...but I understand it.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

CCRiley2 said:


> I don't understand why people would get offended or get feel threatened to such a simple question. I am only here to ask how Ohio regulations define a single hook.
> I don't care what answer you believe, or what word of mouth rulings are. I understand that you all have formulated your own understanding, but I haven't found it clearly defined in Ohio regulations. What would be the ruling in the courts?
> 
> I don't care about the specific referenced administrative code. I was only stating that that's the only reference to hook quantity's I could find.
> ...


I don't remember where I read it in the Ohio regs, but I distinctly remember doing so because I had the same question. Except for the specific locations and times delineated in the regs, trebles are defined as one hook, and you may have as many as three of them on a line. Those locations support walleye spawning runs at those times, and they don't want snaggers in there.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

Whomever believes a treble hook is 3 hooks, you are correct. Please take all the other treble hooks off your lures and only leave 1 on there or switch them to single hooks.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

I don't know why you all think it's hard to understand?
The rule in reverse means you can have 9 hooks on a artificial lure. 3 sets of 3 is the max. Meaning you can have any combination not exceeding the max of 3 sets of 3.
Lets do 3rd grade math....
An example: In my back yard I have an apple tree. The tree has 3 apples on it. We can say this tree has a set of 3 apples, but it is only 1 tree.
The 2 neighbors next to me each have an apple tree too. Their trees also have 3 apples. Me and my neighbors have 3 apple trees, each of which have 3 apples.
How many apples do me and my neighbors have?


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

CCRiley2 said:


> I don't know why you all think it's hard to understand?
> The rule in reverse means you can have 9 hooks on a artificial lure. 3 sets of 3 is the max. Meaning you can have any combination not exceeding the max of 3 sets of 3.
> Lets do 3rd grade math....
> An example: In my back yard I have an apple tree. The tree has 3 apples on it. We can say this tree has a set of 3 apples, but it is only 1 tree.
> ...


So.... you create a thread literally asking for opinons and thoughts. Then you decide to get rude and condescending talking about 3rd grade math? Get out of here kid and head back to Facebook with that attitude.

Btw, my comment before was strictly playing.

Another rude jerk on my block list.


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## Outasync (Mar 5, 2016)

You do realize that they include the one treble with no more than 3 hooks to limit the number of points on one shank? Sounds like your just looking to find someone to argue over this because you have your mind made up already. A treble hook is 1 hook with 3 points. Period.


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## Evinrude58 (Apr 13, 2011)

Look at it this way. I have a treblehook on my line and he has two treblehooks on his line. Thus treblehook is single and treblehooks is plural. Treble means 3 which indicates 3 points I believe the hook with two points is called a devils claw.

Truthfully to ask a question and then get defensive and rude is not the way to get people on here to help you in the future. Although if the handle listed under your name is an old account that would explain a lot.


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## rwolfphoto (Oct 19, 2014)

CCRiley2 said:


> But it seems to try and specify one single hook, as one with a single point.


It doesn't try, it does specify one single hook as one with a single point. A single hook is one hook with a single point. A double hook is one hook with 2 points. A treble hook is one hook with 3 points. Treble hooks do not share a shank. They have three shanks. They are a double hook and single hook welded together.
"Single hook" is a type of hook, not the quantity. The law tells the quantity and type of hook, one "single hook". You cannot use one "double hook" or "treble hook". They may be one hook but they are not a "single hook".
If you are not fishing those specific areas during the Walleye spawn then you can use up to three hooks on your line what ever type of hook you want.


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## kevinw (Apr 27, 2020)

I haven't read this whole thread, so I don't know if someone has already used this really basic logic yet... 

If treble hooks were counted as 3 hooks, and you're not allowed to have more than 3 hooks on your line in any configuration anywhere in Ohio... then as you said in your original post, almost all of the hard fishing baits/lures sold in stores throughout all of Ohio... would be illegal. Because any lure with more than 1 treble would have more than 3 hooks. 

The fact that lures with up to 3 trebles can be legally purchased in just about any store that sells fishing gear in Ohio... answers this question for you. 

You're thinking about it too much. Try not to do that. IDK about you, but it hurts me when I do it.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

I apologize if I’ve come across condescending. 
I got frustrated with people coming back at me. 
Can we all agree that the law never mentions a treble hook? 
For artificial lures , it says you can have 3 sets of 3. This is 9 hooks. 
For live bait you can have 3 hooks. That to me says your options are (1)set of 3. (3) individual hooks. Or (1)set of 2 and an individual hook. 
I’m just trying to think threw it without using any previous belief. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

CCRiley2 said:


> I don't understand why people would get offended or get feel threatened to such a simple question. I am only here to ask how Ohio regulations define a single hook.
> I don't care what answer you believe, or what word of mouth rulings are. I understand that you all have formulated your own understanding, but I haven't found it clearly defined in Ohio regulations. What would be the ruling in the courts?
> 
> I don't care about the specific referenced administrative code. I was only stating that that's the only reference to hook quantity's I could find.
> ...


Then your asking the wrong people


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

CCRiley2 said:


> I apologize if I’ve come across condescending.
> I got frustrated with people coming back at me.
> Can we all agree that the law never mentions a treble hook?
> For artificial lures , it says you can have 3 sets of 3. This is 9 hooks.
> ...


You created it dude...it's alright...no one is mad here at all...we're just telling you how it is...ask some superior being why a treble hook has 3 points on it and is considered one hook...impress me and catch 3 fish on 1 treble hook...even a double....and yes, I know it's done...wouldn't be anything near a norm though...


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## Hatchetman (Apr 13, 2004)

CCRiley2 said:


> I apologize if I’ve come across condescending.
> I got frustrated with people coming back at me.
> Can we all agree that the law never mentions a treble hook?
> For artificial lures , it says you can have 3 sets of 3. This is 9 hooks.
> ...




84 posts including this totally ridiculous one since 2006? You gotta be kidding me!! Talk about a trolling post, this is a poster child for one....


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## Morrowtucky Mike (May 2, 2018)

CCRiley2 said:


> I apologize if I’ve come across condescending.
> I got frustrated with people coming back at me.
> Can we all agree that the law never mentions a treble hook?
> For artificial lures , it says you can have 3 sets of 3. This is 9 hooks.
> ...


Common sense can go a long ways. You seem to be drowning on this one. Maybe when they originally made Ohio’s fishing regulations they assumed most people had common sense and knew a treble hook was considered a single hook with 3 points. If you honestly are having a hard time with this I truly do feel sorry for you. You speak of 3rd grade math yet are failing at 3y/o common sense.


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

Shad Rap said:


> No...it was an error when replying...like a double post, so I just deleted it and put a period there...because there has to be something in the content, you can't just delete your post.
> This new format gets me sometimes.


got it Lol though maybe you were going for a "symbol" like the rock stars lol


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## rwolfphoto (Oct 19, 2014)

CCRiley2 said:


> I apologize if I’ve come across condescending.
> I got frustrated with people coming back at me.
> Can we all agree that the law never mentions a treble hook?
> For artificial lures , it says you can have 3 sets of 3. This is 9 hooks.
> ...


No we cannot agree the law never mentions a treble hook. Page 12 of the fishing regulations you mention in your original post says "Double and treble hooks are prohibited." When fishing those rivers during those days you must use a single hook of a certain size.
Page 16 of the regulations saying you can use up to three hooks on a line does not specify what type of hook you can use.
It is illegal to fish an artificial lure with nine hooks. You can only have three hooks on a line. Three treble hooks equals three hooks. There is nothing in the rules about sets of three hooks and nothing about having to use only single hooks with bait. If you wanted to use two treble hooks on a spreader with bait you would be using two hooks not six hooks.
Obviously you define a hook as having one point. I think that is incorrect. If you buy nine treble hooks you get nine hooks with three points each. You do not get three hooks with three points. An individual hook would be better defined as having one eye that you attach to a fishing line or lure. Single, double or treble describes how many points it has.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

The response seems to be that a treble hook is one hook. After reading the law, don’t agree.
But that aside. What is the definition of a treble hook? What are the parameters that define a treble hook? I know what we are sold by manufacturers, but what if a manufacturer made a treble hook that had 10” shanks that formed an umbrella shape? How can you argue it’s not a treble hook, and it’s not 1 hook? 
This was the question I set out to ask, but after reading the law it only works to differentiate a single hook from a treble hook. the only mention of treble hook is when they are clarifying that a treble hook doesn’t count as a single hook. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Apr 13, 2011)

if there was a point on each of the 10 shanks it would not be a treblehook it would be a decahook. Think of a trident it is called that because it has three points hence the tri part but has no bend. The reason they say you can not use treblehooks is because grammatically it would not be correct to use treblehook. If they said treble hook then you have some idiot using a HJ or something with multiple treblehooks because it says you can't use a treblehook but doesn't say you can't use treblehooks. Technically a treblehook is a single hook with 3 points. hence the treble for the number of points and hook to refer to it having a bend in the shank, otherwise it would be a trident. The term treblehooks refers to more than one treblehook. You are either reading into this way to much or just bored and trolling.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

I didn’t say 10 shanks. I was saying a 10” shank. As in the length. What I’m getting at is we all think of a treble hook as 3 straight shank hooks that join at the back of the bend and are rotated at 120degrees. But there is no designed parameters that say it has to this way. So what if a manufacture made a “treble hook” that didn’t meet at the back of the bend, and each of the 3 hooks formed an umbrella shape? What argument is there that says this isn’t a treble hook? 
It may sound like I want to use an Alabama rig with all the hooks, but I don’t even own one.  I thought about purchasing one when I looked into the Ohio laws. That’s what started my investigation. I have never cared if a treble hook is one or 3, I was just interpreting the law the way I read it. I think if you read the law without prejudice you’d see it that way too. Just my opinion. 
One artificial bait casting lure equipped with not more than three sets of three hooks each.


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## Morrowtucky Mike (May 2, 2018)




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## kevinw (Apr 27, 2020)

Some people just want to argue...


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## rwolfphoto (Oct 19, 2014)

CCRiley2 said:


> The response seems to be that a treble hook is one hook. After reading the law, don’t agree.
> But that aside. What is the definition of a treble hook? What are the parameters that define a treble hook? I know what we are sold by manufacturers, but what if a manufacturer made a treble hook that had 10” shanks that formed an umbrella shape? How can you argue it’s not a treble hook, and it’s not 1 hook?
> This was the question I set out to ask, but after reading the law it only works to differentiate a single hook from a treble hook. the only mention of treble hook is when they are clarifying that a treble hook doesn’t count as a single hook.
> 
> ...


A "treble hook" is one hook. A "single hook" is one hook. A "treble hook" doesn't count as a "single hook" because a "single hook" has one point and a "treble hook" has three points.
The person who invented the first treble hook and got the patent for it set the design parameters and the definition of a treble hook.
when you have your "umbrella hook" made. Three 10" shanks formed into an umbrella shape with the ends formed into a hook point. The manufacturer would probably want to call it something other than a treble hook and get a patent for it.
You can argue that it is one treble hook. You can argue that it is three single hooks attached at one point. It would be legal to fish in Ohio. You are allowed to use up to three hooks on your line and you have either one treble hook or three single hooks.
When the State of Ohio becomes aware of your new hook they will then decide if it will be legal to use for fishing in Ohio.


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