# Little Miami River, fishing with Edgar



## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

I walked up the desk at the retirement center and mumbled incoherently the way I often do around strangers in such instances. I'd certainly starve if I had to make a living as a salesman. I muttered something about writing a book on fishing the river and wanting to talk to someone about how it used to be. The lady just stared at me for a long time. I couldn't tell if she hadn't heard me or was thinking of calling the cops. Then suddenly she was in motion, "yeah come on" she said over her shoulder and led me down a hallway to a room. she introduced me to Edgar and left. I just kind of stood there for a second or two and it took a few momments to explain to Edgar I just wanted to talk fishing and wasn't trying to sell him something. After feeling each other out and trying to find a connection in that way country people do when they first meet, we established that Edgars father had certainly worked with my grandfather at Peters Cartridge Co in Kings Mills and Edgar relaxed and began to talk fishing. Edgar grew up on Shawhan Road above South Lebanon and had fished the river off and on for three quarters of a century. He said his earliest memories of fishing the river were tagging along with his older brother Earl and his cousin Bob catfishing at night. Edgar had a small radio by his bed and must listen to country music because he said, "you know that song where that fellas wife leaves him for fishing? Well Bob sounded just like that fella in the song...aaww lookie there I got a bite". According to Edgar they fished with large stout poles made of cane they bought at Brownings Hardware in South Lebanon. The reel and the guides were then taped to the cane with old fashioned electrical cloth tape.(friction tape) He said he didn't fish on those trips and he thought looking back they let him tag along so he could gather firewood. He still remembers the excitement of being on the river around the fire at night back then. Edgar said they went to a nearby field and picked field corn and boiled it in the minnow bucket over the fire. I asked him if they caught any big fish and he said "God almighty they caught some whoppers", that some of it may have been his youth but the "yellowcats" looked as long as him. That they used chub minnows for bait and also set jingle lines up and down the river from sycamore branches. I asked him if they baited the jingle lines with chubs and he said mostly but they also used nightcrawlers and crawdads on the jingle lines but you had to bait with nightcrawlers right at dark to keep the little fish from pecking them off. He said they caught chubs with a cane pole from the creek up from Stubbs Mills (bigfoot run) and from Hall's Creek. That just up from the river was a big pothole in Halls Creek they could always catch bait in. (there's one there now too, though the creek is dry right now). Edgar said they would go down the hill on a wagon path and cut across the riverbottom to just below Stubbs Mills. Here they often kept a skiff and would gig fish by lantern light. Edgar said a man he called Mr. Brent would come up from Cincinnati to Morrow on the train and would buy bait from Edgar and borrow the skiff. That just below the Stubbs Mills bridge was a small hole in that shallow section and Mr Brent would anchor the skiff and fish minnows for bass and channelcat in that hole. Mr Brent also sometimes would drive up from Cincinnati and would arrive in a coat, hat, and a tie. He would never take off the tie till he had bought bait. Never, he said you could bank on it. He would buy his bait, take off that tie and open one of the beers he had in a bucket with ice in his trunk and go fishing. The nurse stuck her head in check on Edgar and said something about not staying too long but Edgar cut her off, "dammit woman can't you see I've got company, get the hell out". I promised her I would leave soon. When she left Edgars expression softened and he said she never would let him cuss till he was dying. I was at a loss for words at that but it didn't matter, Egdar jumped right back into his story. He said they had a big homemade wire trap that they caught crawdads in using rotten fish for bait. That people always loved eating the craws but he always smelled the rotten fish in his head and couldn't eat them. I asked him about spinning tackle and he said he remembers that Dupont was the only company that made monofilament and he owned a mitchell 300 and a grey cardinal with a drag on the top of the reel housing in the back. That he still has the 300 in his son's garage rafters if it hasn't been thrown away, "best damn reel ever made". He said the river was deeper then because of the dams. That you could waterski below South Lebanon. "Try that now and that shallow water above the new bridge will rip your moter right off". He said when he got older they caught alot of bass above Stubbs Mills on C P Swing spinners and Pork Rinds. And that his brother owned a Bass Oreno and he remembers wanting one badly. Edgar vividly remembers the river flooding and said you could wade neck deep "where the smorgasbord is now".( Duffs smorgasbord has been closed for years.)
Edgar coughed loudly and seemed tired and I made up an excuse to leave but Edgar made me promise to return. "Nobody in this damn place fishes".


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

That's good stuff OSG. good for you.


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## HOUSE (Apr 29, 2010)

Awesome post OSG...made me think of my grandpa. I never got into fishing until after he passed away and I wonder every time I think about him just what kind of stories he could have told me. Old-timers are awesome


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## QueticoMike (Sep 25, 2008)

WAREHOUSE said:


> Awesome post OSG...made me think of my grandpa. I never got into fishing until after he passed away and I wonder every time I think about him just what kind of stories he could have told me. Old-timers are awesome


Hey OSG, Warehouse thinks you are awesome......


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## gibson330usa (May 15, 2012)

Great post OldStinkyGuy. Morrow to S. Lebanon is my favorite segment of the river, it's neat to read those stories about how it used to be. Water skiing ... I would have never guessed!


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## Dandrews (Oct 10, 2010)

Great post! What a great story!


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## Britam05 (Jun 16, 2012)

Not only did you get to hear the tales of a fantastic life. 
You made this man 's year. There is no better feeling to an old timer than to ask them about their experiences. It's a shame more people don't reach out like you did. 
When we bought our house last year we had an elderly neighbor that quickly became my best friend. The stories were awesome and the life advice was better. Unfortunately he passed away couple months ago. But I will always have the stories


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I grew up eating at Duff's. 



Thanks for sharing.


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## zuelkek (Jun 8, 2011)

"dammit woman can't you see I've got company, get the hell out" Love that! Great way to spend some time. I didn't know about dams on the LMR. I take they've been removed for the most part?


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## Gumbers (Oct 1, 2012)

Time is the most valuable thing you can give someone. From my experience that value is multiplied a hundred fold when in regards to a nursing home. Thanks for sharing.

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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

That is awesome, Stink. Its awesome to hear stories from old timers. When my family moved to Amberley when I was little, we were presented with an Amberley history book, which was really just a collection of stories written down from interviews with old timers throughout the years. Way more informative than any official history


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

Well done OSG. The ol timer is right. Not too many people fish or at least get into it with some depth or passion. Got to love Duffs. First buffet (I believe they called them smorgasboards then) my grandparents took me to. Good times and memories.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

zuelkek said:


> "dammit woman can't you see I've got company, get the hell out" Love that! Great way to spend some time. I didn't know about dams on the LMR. I take they've been removed for the most part?


There were dams all along the Little Miami at one time, Fosters, Kings, Morrow, Jacoby Road off the top of my head I'm sure there were more if I think about it. There is one still up at Grinnell Mill and at Clifton. There is also a dam just north of Corwin but fish can go around it thru the old millrace that now looks like just a split of the river. Just as the dams on the GMR draw fishermen nowadays back in my dads day they all fished the dams on the LMR. His favorite fishing stories all involve the old Kings dam.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

oldstinkyguy said:


> There were dams all along the Little Miami at one time, Fosters, Kings, Morrow, Jacoby Road ...


Ha! Talking about jacoby road brings back some memories especially around halloween. Always rumored to be haunted when I was in high school.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

ARReflections said:


> Ha! Talking about jacoby road brings back some memories especially around halloween. Always rumored to be haunted when I was in high school.


Supposedly the LMR is the most haunted river in the US. The huge explosion at the Powder Factory is one place. I think it was the biggest explosion in the world at the time. I think most of the victims they never found a trace of.
Another spot is at Mathers Mill, when they were building a bridge it got swept off the pilings in a flood. A worker was trapped in the wreckage and guys took turns holding his head above water for like 8 hours while they tried to free him but to no avail. Supposedly you can hear him cry for help.
At Fort Ancient people have seen the glowing balls of "swamp gas" floating over the river thats supposed to be an apparition.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> Supposedly the LMR is the most haunted river in the US. The huge explosion at the Powder Factory is one place. I think it was the biggest explosion in the world at the time. I think most of the victims they never found a trace of.
> Another spot is at Mathers Mill, when they were building a bridge it got swept off the pilings in a flood. A worker was trapped in the wreckage and guys took turns holding his head above water for like 8 hours while they tried to free him but to no avail. Supposedly you can hear him cry for help.
> At Fort Ancient people have seen the glowing balls of "swamp gas" floating over the river thats supposed to be an apparition.


If anywhere on that river is haunted, it would be Fort Ancient. That place is your straight-outa-hollywood Indian Burial Ground.
I'm actually really in to archaeology, mounds and such, I'll probably make a thread about it during the winter when there isn't much else goin' on. There were many more areas like Ft Ancient around, and still are a few.


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## buckzye11 (Jul 16, 2009)

You went in there getting research, but you turned back time for that old man a bit... when you don't have much left of your former life from being in a nursing home, talking about past memories will bring some of that back. Glad you did. My wife works in a nursing home, and has some of these stories everyday for me... always glad to hear them, thanks.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> Supposedly the LMR is the most haunted river in the US. The huge explosion at the Powder Factory is one place. I think it was the biggest explosion in the world at the time. I think most of the victims they never found a trace of.
> Another spot is at Mathers Mill, when they were building a bridge it got swept off the pilings in a flood. A worker was trapped in the wreckage and guys took turns holding his head above water for like 8 hours while they tried to free him but to no avail. Supposedly you can hear him cry for help.
> At Fort Ancient people have seen the glowing balls of "swamp gas" floating over the river thats supposed to be an apparition.


Great post man. I'm really into haunted stuff and halloween and this time of year in general. I always try to get out and go to "haunted" places every year. Some are scary, some are not. When I was 16 a few of my friends and I went into the powder factory. We ended up with a criminal trespassing charge. 

You can't forget that camp dennison had a hospital for the the civil war's wounded. They have a museum in town, there is a lot of history behind it. I would add it to the list of spooky things on the LMR.

I actually saw a guy with a metal detector in that area. I was naturally curious so I asked what he was doing. He said he finds all kinds of civil war artifacts such as buttons and bullets and such. He went into the bed of his truck and pulled out a box where he showed me a couple bullets he found. I thought that was very interesting.


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## deltaoscar (Apr 4, 2009)

Great post OSG. Thanks for bringing your "actual" human interaction to this message board, who'd have thunk it.

I love the Internet (it pays my bills), but you made me think. Out of all the petabytes of information/knowledge out there, how much are we missing out on by not seeking out and talking to the "Edgars" of the world?

Hopefully our posts will be archived somewhere for people to read and learn from a hundred years from now.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Matulemj said:


> You can't forget that camp dennison had a hospital for the the civil war's wounded. They have a museum in town, there is a lot of history behind it. I would add it to the list of spooky things on the LMR.


A couple more for the list...

The Indian village at Xenia was attacked and burned by militia in 1779, supposedly another haunted spot.

Fishpot Ford about a mile below Caesar Creek was where all the armies traveling to fight the Indians crossed the river. Several soldiers were killed there by Indians harrasing the army. You don't EVER want to fish there BTW, the river makes a big S curve around an island with four riffles right on top of each other, simply awful I tell ya AND it's haunted stay away...


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

Great story! The history of the river really interests me. I've seen an old painting of the LMR around Milford, (circa 1850) and all the trees were cleared out. It looks really weird with no trees, seems like we're environmentally better off in that regard... not really sure what these hippies are complaining about haha. Obviously the depth would increase, but any idea why they would want to install these dams? Any idea why they were removed? Maybe we should start a local river history thread...


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

GarrettMyers said:


> Great story! The history of the river really interests me. I've seen an old painting of the LMR around Milford, (circa 1850) and all the trees were cleared out. It looks really weird with no trees, seems like we're environmentally better off in that regard... not really sure what these hippies are complaining about haha. Obviously the depth would increase, but any idea why they would want to install these dams? Any idea why they were removed? Maybe we should start a local river history thread...


Milford actually got its name from being a shallow ford in the river and because John Hageman built a mill there around 1800. If you notice there are a ton of MILLS...Stubbs Mills, Mathers Mill, Grinnell Mill, etc. There were dams at Camp Dennison, loveland, fosters, kings mills, three close togethor by Bass Island, corwin, treiben, clifton,kugler mill, and a couple more that I forget right now. If you go Clifton Mill you can get an idea of how alot of them worked. Most milled grain and alot of those ran a swamill too. Many later powered machinery, there were woolen mills in clifton gorge and oregonia had factories that made cotton cloth from cotton shipped up from the south before the civil war. And of course Kings Mills had the famous gunpowder mills. the mills at bass island did grinding, milling, sawing, and spun thread and made cloth. Around Blanchester the land was a big wooded swamp around 1800 and drained into the Little Miami via Stonelick Creek. Because of the swamp much more water ran thru Stonelick then and Stonelick had one mill after another all the way down it. As the land was cleared in the early 1800's , the swamps ditched and drained, the woods cut, the water ran off fast after rains and the creeks ran probably lower than now and couldn't support the mills year round. The dams on the river lasted longer because so much of the Little Miami is also ground water from springs in the headwaters. One odd fact was the millrace at corwin was stocked and was some sort of early paylake.


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## burley bass (Sep 17, 2011)

Great post OSG! So interesting to hear some history of the waters we fish. Are you really writing a book about the river? I'm sure it would be a best seller among OGF members.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

Knowing the history of the area always makes it better for me. Whenever I go to a new city, the first thing I do is pull up Wikipedia on my phone to get a little background. Last week when my friend and I were fishing near Milford, he found a big ol metal axe head. He ended up dropping it in the water while wading across a fast riffle and we couldn't find it (same guy who lost the top half of my uglystick... Hmmm). Makes me wonder what it's story may have been.


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## zuelkek (Jun 8, 2011)

This thread got interesting! I used to camp on the island just upstream from Ft. Ancient, back in the days when I didn't care about getting arrested for stuff like that. (Never had a problem.) We would climb up to the Mounds and hang out all night and talk about ghosts, history, Indians, whatever. Never got caught and never saw a ghost, but had some terrific late nights up there.

BTW, if you're into ghosts, one of the most haunted places in the whole country is the Air Force Museum in Dayton. Lots of men were killed in the very planes on display, and of course they're weapons, so there's lots of that kind of thing associated with them. I find it an awfully spooky place. And of course it's a world class museum in its own right.


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## HOUSE (Apr 29, 2010)

I was out on a LMR night float over the summer and we paddled past a dad camping out with his 3 boys, in the 10yr old range. The dad was fishing by the river while his kids were playing "Ghost in the Graveyard". I asked him if he wanted some help scaring them so I waited a few minutes while he got them all gathered around the campfire and told them about this creepy "river monster" that came out at night. He gave me the sign and I ran up on them with a poncho over my head and all hell broke loose! One kid started crying, other one jumped into his tent, the dad was cracking up and I ran back to my kayak and paddled away.

I'd like to think I helped give them a haunted river story that will last a lifetime...that or time in counseling


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

A ghost story copied from forgottonohio.com about oregonia and the LMR...

"This Warren County "dead man's curve" is known locally as Spook Hollow. It involves not only an abrupt, ninety-degree turn in the road, but also a narrow bridge right after that. 
Years ago a group of high school students died at Spook Hollow when their car went over the bridge railing and into the ice cold water below. One of the girls was decapitated; her head was never recovereed. They say that if you stop on the bridge at midnight, you'll see the head. Another, more grisly possibility is that the severed head will drop onto your car from above while you cross."


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## buzzing byrd (Feb 27, 2008)

I have probably crossed paths with Edgar one time or another. I grew up in South town fishing up and down the river. Spent summers hanging out at the point and then they put the bike trail in and it opened up a lot of fishing for us kids. I remember saving my money for a zebco reel from brownings hardware. It seemed like there was a half dozen bait shops in town growing up and now its hard to find one. You knew when the craws were soft, it would be the word passed around town.


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