# Snake I.D. - Copperhead?



## wackyworm (May 1, 2004)

Caught this guy today, our bird {conure} saw it pass by the window and went spastic, so wife looked out and saw it going by. Caught it and took him for a drive to a nice wooded area. Of course the first thing it did was crawl into the road.

So is it a Copperhead? Kind of thinking he is. But I'll leave to some reptile experts. He wasn't to amused, his tail was sure shaking and he was posed. The tiny specs on him is cracked corn residue. He was maybe bit over 3 foot.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

While I don't know my snakes well, I don't think that's a copperhead. Maybe a corn snake?


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## CamdenGizzard (Apr 6, 2005)

wackyworm said:


> Caught this guy today, our bird {conure} saw it pass by the window and went spastic, so wife looked out and saw it going by. Caught it and took him for a drive to a nice wooded area. Of course the first thing it did was crawl into the road.
> 
> So is it a Copperhead? Kind of thinking he is. But I'll leave to some reptile experts. He wasn't to amused, his tail was sure shaking and he was posed. The tiny specs on him is cracked corn residue. He was maybe bit over 3 foot.


I think thats just a common brown, yellow, black rat snake.

I'm not sure though.


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## rebu (Aug 11, 2007)

The shape of the pupils of the eyes are wrong. The copperhead does not have a round pupil. It looks like a rat snake that I've seen in the SW, but I don't know if we have rat snakes in OH.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

At first glance I would say a milk snake. It is definitely not a copperhead based on the round pupils. The colors are a bit more washed that this one on the ODNR site but I would say milk snake.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/spe...ndex/easternmilksnake/tabid/6612/Default.aspx


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## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

I'm going to say it is a Black Rat Snake. Although the name implies that they should be black in color, they have that color as they as younger and they don't all turn black. Many do once they reach adulthood, but not all. I used to have a few of them as pets that I caught. Fairly common in Ohio, but they are not seen as often as garter snakes or Northern Brown water snakes. 

Thanks for releasing him.


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## wackyworm (May 1, 2004)

Thanks all. Forgot to pay attention to the eyes. Glad I was able to transplant it, all though if I knew for sure what it was, I would of just moved it to another area away from the house.


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## Fishingislife (May 20, 2004)

That would be a Nothern watersnake! Just caught some yesterday on Hocking College campus for a class.

www.nj.gov/pinelands/photo/wildlife/watersnake.html


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## fesekula (Apr 18, 2008)

You caught a black rat snake. They tame down real nice in captivity and are not a aggressive snake. They eat mice, rats and all small mammals that they can get down their throat along with birds that they catch in the trees and ground. You did a good thing by releasing it unharmed.


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## jcustunner24 (Aug 20, 2007)

I am terrified of snakes and willing to admit it, but even I wouldve found a way to move it rather than kill it. Good work
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

Fishingislife said:


> That would be a Nothern watersnake! Just caught some yesterday on Hocking College campus for a class.
> 
> www.nj.gov/pinelands/photo/wildlife/watersnake.html


Nope definitely a black rat. After looking again and reading that it was around 3 ft, it is a no doubter.


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## leftfordead88 (Oct 22, 2007)

its for sure a black rat , 100%, when i was growing up i used to catch these guys all the time, as well as anything and everything else that slithers, hops ,crawls ect...


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## omcforever (Oct 24, 2007)

Not a copperhead,,,,,,,,,Rat snake.


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## FSHNERIE (Mar 5, 2005)

I hate snakes.............


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

Venomous snakes (Copperhead, Rattler, cottonmouth) generally have a very distinct triangular head. Also the vertical pupil, much like a cats eye is a good indicator. Think of the V in venomous and in viper and imagine a V shaped head.

Huntinbull


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## CamdenGizzard (Apr 6, 2005)

ha ha I was right


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

Definiatley a juvinile Black Rat Snake. Usually pretty well mannered too. His eye arn't cat like so you can instantly remove him from the venemous list. These guys get big, but since they're docile by nature you should just leave'em be 

edit:

See the kinks in the lower end of the body, I'm willing to put money on it that it's a female and those are eggs in her. Water snakes a live bearers, rat snakes are egg layers. Probably a female who's been enjoying mice living off the cracked corn.


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## godofwine (Aug 19, 2010)

I'll see if this was a copperhead when I get home. My job won't show photobucket.


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## CRAPPIE LOVER (Feb 11, 2007)

I hate snakes myself...But no it is not a copperhead....JIM....CL....


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Yep just a common Rat Snake. 

This is a Copperhead 










Oh notice that pupils don't mean a thing. This guy has round ones.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Eastern Ratsnake will juvenile markings

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/spe.../blackeasternratsnake/tabid/6556/Default.aspx

http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/brat.htm


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## BingeAndPurge (Jul 20, 2010)

Iowa Dave said:


> Yep just a common Rat Snake.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh notice that pupils don't mean a thing. This guy has round ones.


The pupils are totally different


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

To the op..Please brother dont pick up snakes that you cant identify..Had that not been a harmless snake you could have had quite a bad experience..Thankfully it was not venemous..Lets say it was a copperhead..Usually non fatal bites that at times dont even require antivenom..Unless you are allergic..And just like with bee's,you would have to be envenomated to find out and it could be fatal..Had theat been a cotton mouth/water moccasin, you would have neeeded treatment..They are a darker color like the one you picked up and more dangerous then copperheads...Treatments of venemous snake bites can cost tens of thousands of dollars,which your insurance company may or may not cover..I dont wanna sound like a #$%@...Getting bitten by a venemous snake is like a gun goin off..Once the bullet leaves the barrel,its said and done..Same as the snakes venom,once its bites you there is no way to take it back without goin to the ER...Its all about safety..Read up on them,as snakes are really interresting animals,and I have kept some in the past..You never know,you could gain some good knowledge about north american snakes and it could save your or a loved ones life one day..Remember,if you cant identify,leave it lie...If its a stuation at your residence,call someone who specializes in pest removal...


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## BingeAndPurge (Jul 20, 2010)

There are no cottonmouths/water moccasins in Ohio. Only 2 types of rattlesnakes that are endangered in OH, and copperheads.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

BingeAndPurge said:


> There are no cottonmouths/water moccasins in Ohio. Only 2 types of rattlesnakes that are endangered in OH, and copperheads.


Geographically,this isnt their typical region..I have seen two cotton mouths while fishing...Even though they dont list them as being here on their website, I have spoken with many ODNR officers that have seen them in really small numbers as well...


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

I worked with the ODNR out of Findlay for years,I will guarantee you that the nearest cottonmouth's to Ohio are located in southern Illinois.I worked with field biologist's daily,and the question about venomous snakes came up very often.There are only three species of venomous snakes in Ohio,Massasauga rattlesnakes,or sometimes known as swamp rattlesnakes,Timber rattlesnakes,and Copperheads.There's a couple types of water snakes that are commonly mistaken for cottonmouth's.This is but one of a dozen or so posts on here regarding people's beliefs in cottonmouth's residing in Ohio,nobody can change somebody's beliefs once their mind is made up,so I will peacefully bow out of this one.


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## BingeAndPurge (Jul 20, 2010)

Harbor Hunter said:


> I worked with the ODNR out of Findlay for years,I will guarantee you that the nearest cottonmouth's to Ohio are located in southern Illinois.I worked with field biologist's daily,and the question about venomous snakes came up very often.There are only three species of venomous snakes in Ohio,Massasauga rattlesnakes,or sometimes known as swamp rattlesnakes,Timber rattlesnakes,and Copperheads.There's a couple types of water snakes that are commonly mistaken for cottonmouth's.This is but one of a dozen or so posts on here regarding people's beliefs in cottonmouth's residing in Ohio,nobody can change somebody's beliefs once their mind is made up,so I will peacefully bow out of this one.


I feel you man, I don't have the credibility you have, but I've had this argument often


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Its not really an arguement..But I am not gonna let someone tell me I didnt see what I seen just cause they googled something and seen where it was supposed to be on a map...As far as what ONDR says,well somtimes I just take it with a grain of salt..Its mother nature..Feel free to expect the un- expected..


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

No water moccasin in Ohio bro...unless someone released one. 

Range in Ohio:
The Water Moccasin does NOT live naturally in Ohio. The closest that it comes to this state is southernmost Illinois. In the very unlikely event that you should see a Water Moccasin in Ohio, the snake would have escaped from captivity. In any case, this is one of the most deadly snakes in North America, so don't take chances. Be sure of your identification!

http://www.oplin.org/snake/fact pages/moccasin_water/moccasin_water.html


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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

Iowa Dave said:


> Yep just a common Rat Snake.
> 
> This is a Copperhead
> 
> ...


I almost grabbed one of those when I was 11 years old. I was really into catching snakes and I went to grab it when my friends uncle grabbed me and told me that those hour glass shapes mean you have an hour to live after bitten. he probably saved my life by pulling me away from it


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Mushijobah said:


> No water moccasin in Ohio bro...unless someone released one.
> 
> Range in Ohio:
> The Water Moccasin does NOT live naturally in Ohio. The closest that it comes to this state is southernmost Illinois. In the very unlikely event that you should see a Water Moccasin in Ohio, the snake would have escaped from captivity. In any case, this is one of the most deadly snakes in North America, so don't take chances. Be sure of your identification!
> ...


I think you are not getting it..These guys dont stand shoulder to shoulder and comb ohio for snakes..It is possible..I know if I had kids,I wouldnt just show them pics of copperheads,massasauga rattlers,and timber rattle snakes and tell them every other snake is free game to pick up...Since they dont guarruntee they are not here,they cover their butts in the last sentence by saying "dont take chances,be sure of indentification"...I am not saying they are here in masses..I am saying I have seen two in the past 8 years...


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Iraqvet said:


> I think you are not getting it..These guys dont stand shoulder to shoulder and comb ohio for snakes..It is possible..I know if I had kids,I wouldnt just show them pics of copperheads,massasauga rattlers,and timber rattle snakes and tell them every other snake is free game to pick up...Since they dont guarruntee they are not here,they cover their butts in the last sentence by saying "dont take chances,be sure of indentification"...I am not saying they are here in masses..I am saying I have seen two in the past 8 years...


How do you know they were WM? You do realize the climate aint right...right?


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Mushijobah said:


> How do you know they were WM? You do realize the climate aint right...right?


I wanted to be a herpatologist when I was younger...I learned about venomous snakes first and went from there..I dont know everything about them by far,but I am 100% sure of what I seen..And copperheads are found where WM's are...Snake may live in certain area's of what they think is their IDEAL habitat..That does not mean they cant survive in other areas within reason..WM's are very hearty snakes...I am not tryin to argue bro..I am just saying people should always be cautious and people shouldnt assume certain things are not possible...Especially when it comes to wildlife..


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

Mushijobah said:


> How do you know they were WM? You do realize the climate aint right...right?


Have you been to southern Illinois? The climate isn't any different. It's the habitat! Water in the woods on a regular basis. Perfect habitat.


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## godofwine (Aug 19, 2010)

Iraqvet said:


> I wanted to be a herpatologist when I was younger...I learned about venomous snakes first and went from there..I dont know everything about them by far,but I am 100% sure of what I seen..And copperheads are found where WM's are...Snake may live in certain area's of what they think is their IDEAL habitat..That does not mean they cant survive in other areas within reason..WM's are very hearty snakes...I am not tryin to argue bro..I am just saying people should always be cautious and people shouldnt assume certain things are not possible...Especially when it comes to wildlife..


I wanted to be a herpetologist as well, i just couldn't deal with the biting ticks, flies and mosquitoes. I did catch an unidentified snake when I was deployed in Kuwait in 2006. I also caught a sand viper, but I have no pictures of that. My trick is to treat each snake as it is venomous. This actually works when dealing with juvenile snakes that often differ from the adults of that species. It is rather easy to misidentify and have to be rushed to the hospital...if you can make it that far. 

As has been said, only the Eastern Massasauga ,Timber Rattlesnake, and Copperhead reside in Ohio as far as venomous snakes go. i have heard of unidentified rattlesnakes being found on the Lake Erie islands, but I cannot confirm...only heresay.


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## chadwimc (Jun 27, 2007)

Fishman said:


> Definiatley a juvinile Black Rat Snake. Usually pretty well mannered too. His eye arn't cat like so you can instantly remove him from the venemous list. These guys get big, but since they're docile by nature you should just leave'em be
> 
> edit:
> 
> See the kinks in the lower end of the body, I'm willing to put money on it that it's a female and those are eggs in her. Water snakes a live bearers, rat snakes are egg layers. Probably a female who's been enjoying mice living off the cracked corn.


Either that, or those lumps are mice about to be... Well, you know...


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

DIE DIE DIE!! Nuke it from Space! [email protected]


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

dinkbuster1 said:


> DIE DIE DIE!! Nuke it from Space! [email protected]


Snakes are awesome man....No need to nuke them lol..


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Muskarp said:


> Have you been to southern Illinois? The climate isn't any different. It's the habitat! Water in the woods on a regular basis. Perfect habitat.


It is different, when getting technical. Average LOW temperatures are barely below freezing in Dec, Jan, Feb. And that is there extreme northern boundary of the WM range. Many degrees higher than even cincinnati's average temps. Habitat plays a huge role..but there have been flooded forests and wetlands in southern Ohio for thousands of years, and no one has ever found any WM...even remnant populations. And back then, there was better habitat/more stable temperatures throughout the landscape because of the seemingly endless forests.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Iraqvet said:


> I wanted to be a herpatologist when I was younger...I learned about venomous snakes first and went from there..I dont know everything about them by far,but I am 100% sure of what I seen..And copperheads are found where WM's are...Snake may live in certain area's of what they think is their IDEAL habitat..That does not mean they cant survive in other areas within reason..WM's are very hearty snakes...I am not tryin to argue bro..I am just saying people should always be cautious and people shouldnt assume certain things are not possible...Especially when it comes to wildlife..


Well power to you and your search. Find a remnant population of a lost colony of WM in Ohio and I'm sure OSU will pay you to be a herpatologist for the rest of your life. Maybe you could write a book...Water Moccasin in Ohio: The Ultimate Geographic Boundary Defier...or something.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Boy, I love animal identification threads! Anyway, rattlers, copperheads, and water moccasins are all pit vipers. You can see that pretty clearly in the copperhead photo.

"The pit is a special organ in between the eyes and the nostrils. The pit senses body heat from animals and gives the snake a picture of that animal."


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

I honestly don't think any true water mocasins exist north of the Mason Dixon line. Sure there are many water snakes that people call water mocasins but they are not. 

LOL I have an old friend down in Louisiana (where I grew up) that calls all snakes RATTLEMOCASINS


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Mushijobah said:


> Well power to you and your search. Find a remnant population of a lost colony of WM in Ohio and I'm sure OSU will pay you to be a herpatologist for the rest of your life. Maybe you could write a book...Water Moccasin in Ohio: The Ultimate Geographic Boundary Defier...or something.


I am not sure how well you can read,but I would advise you to crack open some books..I am not sure you have the knowledge to make smart comments..Again,look at the ODNR page..They even tell you they are highly dangerous and to make sure you can identify the snake...Why??..Because no one cant say for 100% fact that they do not have a very limited population here...I said I seen 2 in 8 years..Thats probably not gonna change..Again,if you think you are fine by tellin your kids there is only 3 venomous snakes in OH,then go ahead..Me,I will teach my kids way more then that cause mother nature can play some cruel jokes on you...


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Another snake argument thread? Seriously?


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## RiverDoc (Mar 12, 2010)

Not another argument but wanted to chime in. In the last 30 or so years it has become fashionable for universities to move away from natural history studies that include distributions of various organisms, snakes included. This has come about as the trend in research has shifted from ecology to studies in molecular biology and/or product development. Pressure to obtain grants and publish research has left distribution studies to amateurs and hobbyists. For example, there are many birders, butterfly watchers, etc., that know the true distributions for a species better than most tenured professors (in those departments). Accordingly, when you see a distribution map for a species, don't take it at face value. The distributions of species changes all the time as a consequence of urbanization, habitat fragmentation, and a host of other factors. Chief among these are the natural changes in climate that are commensurate with the 11 year solar cycle changes.

For a given species, experts are often surprised that a species has been found outside of its normal range. But there are no cottonmouths in Ohio; two rattlesnakes and copperheads. I have found copperheads outside of their reported range.

In most cases snake bites result from an individual harassing or cornering a snake. Even the non-venomous rear-fanged snakes (e.g., black snake) can bite with sufficient force and pressure that an individual receiving a bite wished that he hadn't fooled around with it-you have to work pretty hard to get bitten. A tetanus shot is recommended for such a bite.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Mushijobah said:


> It is different, when getting technical. Average LOW temperatures are barely below freezing in Dec, Jan, Feb. And that is there extreme northern boundary of the WM range. Many degrees higher than even cincinnati's average temps. Habitat plays a huge role..but there have been flooded forests and wetlands in southern Ohio for thousands of years, and no one has ever found any WM...even remnant populations. And back then, there was better habitat/more stable temperatures throughout the landscape because of the seemingly endless forests.


Correct. The very southern portion if Illinois is humid subtropical, while the rest of the state is humid continental. A lot like Cincinnati vs Cleveland. Different climates for sure.


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## basstrackerman (Apr 6, 2004)

i deal in reptiles its for sure a norther black rat snake..harmless.actually farmers like them cause they eat the rats and mice around the farm


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## godofwine (Aug 19, 2010)

Iraqvet said:


> I am not sure how well you can read,but I would advise you to crack open some books..I am not sure you have the knowledge to make smart comments..Again,look at the ODNR page..They even tell you they are highly dangerous and to make sure you can identify the snake...Why??..Because no one cant say for 100% fact that they do not have a very limited population here...I said I seen 2 in 8 years..Thats probably not gonna change..Again,if you think you are fine by tellin your kids there is only 3 venomous snakes in OH,then go ahead..Me,I will teach my kids way more then that cause mother nature can play some cruel jokes on you...


What area have you seen them in Iraqvet? North, Central or Southern Ohio? I believe you; you cannot say that something is certainly not around when you are talking about mother nature. I was driving up the Bishop Road eastbound exit and a red fox crossed in front of my car. It was real quick; I barely had a chance to see it as it dashed across at almost the top of the exit ramp into the grass on the side where the Holiday Inn/Ramada is. I went home and looked for similar animals in the area and red foxes weren't one of the animals listed on that site. 

With a lot of animals you cannot say for sure that anything else doesn't exist simply because you haven't seen it or they haven't been "confirmed" to be in a particular area. Animals travel enough on their own seeking food and shelter without the involvement of humans, and when you consider the impact people have made releasing non-indigenous animals into the wild then the distance that they can travel explodes. It is difficult to differentiate between certain watersnakes and cottonmouths, so it is best to leave them alone or definitely handle with extreme care because if someone gets bitten by a snake that ends up being a cottonmouth all the Ohio Fishing and Game is going to say is, "Well, sh*t. I guess we were wrong." But that won't make that person any less sick or dead.


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## blackxpress (Nov 20, 2009)

Too bad you can't go get him and bring him back home. Rat snakes are useful to have around. He wouldn't have been hanging around your house if he wasn't finding anything to eat.


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## ErieAngler (Apr 15, 2006)

I treat every snake as it could swallow me whole  - don't know what it is about them, but they absolutely give me the hebeegebees!!


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

How do you guys feel about cougars?


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## BingeAndPurge (Jul 20, 2010)

fallen513 said:


> How do you guys feel about cougars?


Haha I was flipping through that thread earlier today and it sounded just like this one


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

fallen513 said:


> How do you guys feel about cougars?


Good one...I almost pissed myselfLOL


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## 01mercLS (Oct 28, 2006)

Not a snake expert here, but that def looks like a common rat snake. I remember when I was a kid we went to pilgrim hills camp and they had tons of those running around.


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## ErieAngler (Apr 15, 2006)

fallen513 said:


> How do you guys feel about cougars?


Are we talking the 4 legged or 2 legged species? Both can be very aggressive and should be approached with extreme caution!


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