# river stage ?



## JIG (Nov 2, 2004)

Was the river low this spring to summer? Someone told me the Army Corps drained WB and Berlin to help keep the river up. Any truth to it!?


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

I can't prove it, but all the corps lakes are there to either 1. flood control 2. keep the river navigitable. They do the same thing to the kinzua dam in new york, when the river needs water.


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## katfish (Apr 7, 2004)

This sounds wrong to me for several reasons. First and foremost being that those two lakes total water could not raise the Ohio river 1 inch for 5 minutes  

Secondly the river levels are controlled by closing dams and holding water back to maintain pool levels.

The corps of engineers have less control of flooding than they do of maintaining pool depth. They can only hold back so much water during floods due to dam height and inflow. They can coordinate flow to maintain navigable pool depths during the worst of droughts.

The other point is that the Ohio River ran high for the last years. The pool levels are documented on the corps of engineer sites.

If Berlin and West Branch are low there are probably other issues at work.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Isn't Berlin and West Branch in the Lake Erie watershed?


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

Berlin and West Branch are somewhat low due to the fact that we haven't had much rain. It is that time of year when they gradually allow these lakes to drop to Winter pool and since we haven't had the rain we usually get the lakes have dropped a little sooner.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

Wouldn't help, the river flows, it's not a lake. As already mentioned, all the water out of the lakes would only raise it an inch or two for an hour. Most of the dams are 80 miles apart, so how much water would it take to raise it 1" ??


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

call the corps and see what they say... If the water wasn't needed somewhere, wouldn't they close the dam and raise the water back up?


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## katfish (Apr 7, 2004)

> Berlin BDOH * * 1021.0 92 * 1020.9 92 * 1020.9 92


As I look at Berlins stats I see that it is 1 /10 of an inch below pool  

Both dams are flood control but the corps of engineers has some responsibility to maintain stream flows below dams.

I do not claim to be intelligent about water level maintenance.
My tax dollars go to professionals who are educated and experienced in such matters.


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## DavidWS10 (Apr 5, 2004)

Today at 11:00am the Ohio River was at 26.27' in downtown Cincinnati, and I think that is pretty much the typical summer pool. Mrfish and others know the pool levels much better than I do, though.


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## UFM82 (Apr 6, 2004)

#1- I didn't know DavidWS10 was still alive and 

#2- there isn't a lake in Ohio big enough to influence the Ohio much. The volume of water that flows down the 900+ mile length of the river would dwarf anything Ohio could supply. 

Most bodies of water around here are low due to the dry summer- that works for me. I haven't mowed my grass in two weeks and I'm shooting for 3.  I do know that the water is clean and green right now. 

Good to see you're still alive

UFM82


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## JIG (Nov 2, 2004)

Ill try to ask them and see. I think you are right about the water from the lakes in not having the volume to affect the Ohio. Maybe down stream of the Mahoning but...I also know Skeeter and Milton are up and the rates are the same at Berlin and Milton. If we get rain(alot) they dump Skeeter and Milton first till the others fill. They are learnin!The guy that mentioned it to me is a bio-eng. and grew up around both lakes. Maybe he has more! Thanks again guys!  Keep ya posted.


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

Mrfishohio,

Let's do an estimate of how much water it takes to raise a pool on the Ohio 1". As you said most dams are 80 miles apart or 422,400'. A 1" raise is 1/12'. Let's estimate the width of a typical dam at 1250'. So the amount of water needed to raise the level of one pool 1" is 1/12*12508*422,400 ft.^3 or about 44 million cubic feet of water. This converts to about 329 million gallons of water.

Joe


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

It wouldn't matter how much water are in those two lakes if they flow north to Lake Erie.


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## downtown (Apr 6, 2004)

http://www.lrp.usace.army.mil/rec/lakes/damlakes.htm


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

> This converts to about 329 million gallons of water.


 You left out all the creeks and backwaters, so to get that raise, it might take double that or at least one third more ? 
So is that how much water they dropped the lakes?? If so how long would it remain raised? 

Maybe this will help...
http://www.lrd-wc.usace.army.mil/text/resprt1.txt

I think this one gives flow or at least levels between dams. I know somehow you could calculate how much flow one dam to the next one's flow is to see if the level remains the same, rises or lowers.
http://www.lrd-wc.usace.army.mil/text/pubstage.txt


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

Okay, since we neglected creeks and backwaters, let's say 500 million gallons of water to raise a pool by 1". That is a lot of water. I would imagine that the level of the river would be controlled by its system of dams rather than by the management of Ohio's lakes, as our lakes really aren't all that big.

The length of time that it would keep the river raised depends on what the flow rate of the river is, which is controlled by the corps of engineers. They could open a dam and clear that water out rather quicky maybe a day or two, or they could let the same amount of water into the pool as is flowing out and ignoring evaporation keep it at that level indefinitely. Those guys have a pretty hefty task managing such a large body of water. It would be interesting to know if and when they would consider dumping a lake to raise a pool in the river.

Joe


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

I've seen some sites that tell the actual discharge flow, so one might calculate if they were real good the rise & fall of the river. I guess that's how they figure it, they also have to take into account the rainfall in an area and the creek flow. You notice those remote flow gauges in all the creeks. Sometimes you see them (the creeks) listed too. I know I've seen sites that give all that info. It's really interesting to think how they can keep track of it to prevent flooding. I'm also convinced that more water winds up in the creeks and rivers today than ever before due to all the construction of housing & shopping centers. Home Depot adds a new store every other day somewhere, they are growing so fast, not knocking them. There are new stores & homes & roads everywhere, look at the shrinking "country" areas turned to suburbs. All that water runs off roofs & roads & parking lots into the storm drains right into rivers & creeks.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for the correction downtown! 

Obvously microsoft streets and trips don't have the details for rivers like they do the streets.


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