# "Charles Mill Lake Horsepower Change" Need Everyones Help!



## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Just wanted to let everyone know we only have a few more days left to get your emails and letters of support to make Charles Mill Lake unlimited horsepower no / wake, in to ODNR Div. of Watercraft. I have attached a copy of the letter that I sent. If you want to use any part or all of the letter, feel free to. Just get the letters in. John Terry of Hookerz Tackle also had posted a very good letter a few weeks ago. Thanks John! Here is the link and person to send all letters and emails to: [email protected]


Ms. Green,

First, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to voice my opinion at the Charles Mill Lake Horsepower Meeting, held at Pleasant Hill Lake. The meeting was very well run by you and your staff and I felt very positive when I left, that there is a distinct possibility we can get a horsepower change at Charles Mill Lake. I know the petition was turned in to increase the hp to 30 hp but it makes absolutely no sense to me. I have never really understood the reasoning behind any horsepower limit anyway. With that said, I again would like to ask that Charles Mill Lake be made unlimited horsepower and either a 6-8 mph speed limit or no wake. Of course you know this is not a new idea. ODNR did a wonderful thing by making Oxbow, Rupert, LaSuAn, Knox and Burr Oak unlimited horsepower. They made those lakes accessible to all, not just a select few. And to my knowledge, there have been just 3 minor complaints, total, out of all 5 lakes in 2 1/2 years. ODNR Div. of Watercraft is to be commended on a job well done.

I have read with interest some of the past recommendations made internally at ODNR DOW in the BOW meetings. I must agree with some of their findings. We rank 9th nationally in number of watercraft registered. Our average horsepower of watercraft is 160hp. And I will quote from BOW documents "The policy of unlimited horsepower / no wake allows access for all, but greatly restricts speed, thus preserving a quiet calm atmosphere on a lake when desired. The survey of other states showed that this management method is one of the most commonly used lake management methods in other states. Yet in Ohio, where a big population of boaters exists, with unusually high horsepower engines, this management method is uncommon" (end of quote). To put this into perspective I will use figures derived from this same document. We have 31 lakes that are higher horsepower lakes, 25 hp - unlimited hp ( remember not all are unlimited). These 31 lakes average 5270 boats per lake. At the same time, there are 223 lakes that are 10 hp or less. These 223 lakes average about 724 boats per lake. Quite a difference, wouldn't you say? By changing lakes to unlimited horsepower and setting speed limits or no wake, you can alleviate a lot of the over crowding on some of the other lakes. You also make it much safer all around by affording the larger craft (pontoons, houseboats, etc.), the horsepower to navigate in adverse conditions, should they get caught out in bad weather. Also, by establishing speed limits or making it no wake, it eliminates the concerns of excessive noise and erosion and makes it more enjoyable for all. Clearfork Lake is a prime example of using a speed limit (theirs is 8 mph). They have not written a citation for speed in quite a few years, only a few friendly warnings.

I know this is for Charles Mill Lake but I can't help but think that we would be much further ahead with one easy to follow horsepower rule for all of Ohio's lakes. Maybe we can start leaning that way. Horsepower has never been the problem to start with. Operator error and speed are the problems. And that can be regulated, no different than on our roadways.

Again Deborah, I want to thank you and all those involved at ODNR DOW and Muskingum for taking the time to try to fix our lake problems. And please try to make Charles Mill Lake unlimited horsepower / no wake so everyone can enjoy the lake. It has worked at other lakes, it will work at Charles Mill Lake.
If you have any questions about anything I have said or quoted, feel free to call me @ xxx-xxx-xxxx.



Read more: http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=160735#ixzz176eZP2q1


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

I've already sent in several letters regarding this issue for some time now.I totally agree there shouldn't be hp restrictions on any lake in Ohio.Setting speed limits,and/or no wake restrictions is all that is needed on any lake.You always hear that if large motors are allowed,there will be people breaking the speed limits posted.That's not true at all,I live right near Clear Fork Lake,that lake has an 8 mph speed limit,I know the ranger there well,he can't remember the last time there has been a ticket handed out for speeding on that lake.That lake has a ton of bass and muskie tournaments held on it from spring through fall,and there's never been a problem with people speeding.As far as bank erosion goes,the 10hp boats cause problems with soil erosion far more than a bass boat going at idle speed.Again ask a park ranger.They don't have,and never have had hp restrictions on the thousands of lakes in Michigan,I'm from there,and still have a place up there on a smaller 500 acre lake,I've yet to hear of any problems due to speeders or boats causing soil damage.I fish Kokosing Lake often from my bass boat,I've never understood what the problem would be if I used my main motor at idle speed to get from point A to point B,but yet you see guys in small boats with 9.9's hauling butt from one location to the other.On a lake such as that,or others like Hoover,there should be an unlimited hp/idle speed only law.The guys with the 9.9's wouldn't like only being able to go at idle speed,but the law should be the same for everybody,on every lake.I worked for the ODNR for quite awhile,and I have heard from friends that work there that the plan is to add more and more lakes in Ohio each year to the unlimited hp rating like they did with Knox Lake.I sure hope they do soon,that will take a ton of pressure of dozens of lakes.


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## fished-out (Dec 20, 2005)

Agreed; and a significant number of those so-called 9.9's are actually 15's in disguise.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Harbor Hunter for the response and sending the letters. You are absolutely right in your thinking. I just hope more people will step up to the plate on this. It is the only way we can get things changed. And Fished-Out, I will promise you that you are right. Alot of that came out in the meeting ODNR had on raising the horsepower at Charles Mill. Yet those same ones didn't want us to be able to idle around with our higher horsepower bass boats. A little self serving, don't you think?


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## BassBlaster (Jun 8, 2006)

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you guys so dont take this the wrong way. Just want to get your thoughts on another view.

I know there are people with smaller boats who do not fish the open limit lakes for fear of being run over or whatever else. I will be one of them soon. I am currently working on a project boat specifically for Hoover. You say it should be "fair for everyone" so are you also in favor of imposing no wake or speed limits on the open limit lakes?


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## MadMac (May 2, 2005)

I sent a letter supporting this cause. I normally fish West Branch but would love to try Leesville and Piedmont once in a while. Can't afford two boats and won't go to a smaller boat to fish WB.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Bass Blaster, I would like to clarify something. I never stated that it would be "fair for everyone". What I stated was it would open more water up for everyone to enjoy and maybe alleviate some of the pressure on other lakes. To answer your question, I think each lake needs to be regulated by speed limits, not horsepower, based on the particulars of the lake. If that means that certain lakes are no wake for all, then so be it. Some lakes are more condusive to higher speeds, skiing, and other motorized water sports. Some are not. I will say this, even on the unlimited horsepower lakes, most, if not all, have speed zones and no wake zones both and rightfully should. By doing so it affords people different areas on the lake to use based on what they want to do.
Mad Mac, thanks for the support. Get everyone you can to send the letters and emails in.


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## BassBlaster (Jun 8, 2006)

My mistake. I must have misread your post.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Hopefully things do not change. When was the last time you saw speed limits enforced? 1350 acres and unlimited horsepower= at least one death a year. Just my opinion.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

JamesT said:


> Hopefully things do not change. When was the last time you saw speed limits enforced? 1350 acres and unlimited horsepower= at least one death a year. Just my opinion.


JamesT, you along with everyone else is entitled to your opinion, but what do you base your opinion on? You ask when was the last time I saw speed limits enforced. You must never fish Clearfork or Knox or some of the other unlimited horsepower lakes with a speed limit or no wake or you could see first hand that it is indeed enforced. Are you going to get an idiot once in a blue moon that breaks the speed limit or no wake law? You betcha! And those are the ones they need to make examples out of and fine the crap out of them. Go to Portage Lakes and see how it is enforced there. They don't put up with disregard of the law. It is also up to each and everyone of us that has the opportunity to use these lakes to help enforce the laws. But, then again, that's just my opinion!


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

I just spoke with Deb Green from the Div. of Watercraft at ODNR and she informed me that they have extended the time for public input on the Charles Mill Lake horsepower change. You can still send your emails and letters. They will be accepting them until Dec. 23, 2010. Please take the time to send your letters of support for unlimited horsepower - no wake on Charles Mill Lake. 

Read more: http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=160805#ixzz17MTnnSws


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## Hatchetman (Apr 13, 2004)

JamesT....When was the last death recorded at Dillon Lake due to unlimited horsepower being abused ? Dillon is only 1560 acres and has been unlimited for as long as I can remember with no idle only restrictions in the main lake area. If you read the previous posts, there has been almost zero problems with the unlimited HP at the lakes that are currently under the unlimited/no wake rule. Before you think I have a big hp bass boat, think again. I have a 16 1/2 ft. Lund tiller that makes a tank seem light and I have a 9.9 Johnson that gets me up to 9mph with a very large wake. I am completely in agreement on the HP change for CM....


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## RonT (May 4, 2008)

Just fired off an "E" mail, Steeg. I'm primarily a crick wader but have access to a bass boat if #3 son feels charitable. Would dearly like to cast for Hybrids on Charles Mill, but not an option without a HP restriction compromise. 
Good luck,
R


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Haven't fished those reservoirs. I've fished Charles mill and alum. Other than the jet skiers cm is a very peaceful reservoir. Alum is...well....a joke (or funhouse if you prefer). Cm is 2.5x smaller than alum. There have been recent boating deaths at alum due to recklessness. I just don't want cm turning into alum.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Email is sent. Im totaly in line with you. I think speed limit is the way to go not HP. They started opening lakes that were 9.9 to unlimited already and Ive heard no complaints yet.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Viper1, RonT and Hatchetman, Thanks for the support! This would definitely benefit everyone. JamesT, I have to wonder if you are talking about Charles Mill Lake in Richland and Ashland Counties. I have fished Charles Mill for almost 40 years and I am yet to see a jet-ski on Charles Mill. Remember, Charles Mill is currently a 9.9 hp lake. I know of no jet-skis that are this low of horsepower. You also make the statement you don't want Charles Mill to turn into an Alum Creek. What part of no wake do you not understand? I will restate what is trying to be accomplished; unlimited horsepower and "no wake" on anything over 9.9 hp. This has worked on other lakes and I know it will work on Charles Mill.


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## froggtogg (May 10, 2009)

tough decesion. the 9.9 boys have had control of these lakes for a long time and are happy! Now some want to go umlimited hp and impose a speed limit. I really have a hard time making up my mind about this. just a thought, but maybe unlimited hp and a speed limit of 25 mph, with no wake zones and no personal watercraft or waterskings on what is considered a 9.9 lake now. I could go for this and I think maybe everyone will be happy. lol. just to let you know I have a 150 hp boat and a 9.9 in the garage so I can swing either way. It would be nice to have only one boat though. Frogg


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Well I was getting my reservoirs mixed up. I was thinking pleasant hill, not Charles mill. 

My opinion would depend on if I could take my canoe to an unlimited hp/no wake reservoir and not get pissed off bc of people breaking the rules.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Hey JamesT, although you will always have some idiot that has to try to ruin it for everyone, I don't think you would have to worry taking your canoe on Charles Mill Lake. The biggest part of the lake is really shallow with scattered stumps. Unless a person really knows the lake, they would be taking a huge risk of tearing up their boat and or getting hurt, trying speed around the lake. It is a very nice lake. If we make it no wake, it will stay that way. BTW- Charles Mill Lake is approx. 1100 acres. Pleasant Hill is 850 acres.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

I noticed the difference in acreage of PH and CM and that PH is unlimited. I've fished PH 3-4 times in my canoe and like I said earlier it was very peaceful other than the jetskies but they weren't breaking any rules so so be it. That is a beautiful area, I even caught a pike in the nearby KOA campground pond lol. I also was unaware that unlimited HP/no wake existed. So sorry for my premature posts since I have no experience to base the comments on. I mostly fish Alum and I think it is the biggest "funhouse" in all of Ohio. Rules do need to be enforced of course. Good luck. I do see your point of view.


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## fished-out (Dec 20, 2005)

JamesT said:


> I noticed the difference in acreage of PH and CM and that PH is unlimited. I've fished PH 3-4 times in my canoe and like I said earlier it was very peaceful other than the jetskies but they weren't breaking any rules so so be it. That is a beautiful area, I even caught a pike in the nearby KOA campground pond lol. I also was unaware that unlimited HP/no wake existed. So sorry for my premature posts since I have no experience to base the comments on. I mostly fish Alum and I think it is the biggest "funhouse" in all of Ohio. Rules do need to be enforced of course. Good luck. I do see your point of view.


I've heard that Alum is the busiest lake in Ohio (however that's measured  ), and that Caesar's Creek is second. Neither one is a good example. I remember seeing a boat on Alum that looked like it had just come off the set of Miami Vice. Boat had no business on an inland lake; I'm not even sure they could get it up to full speed--lake just didn't have enough runway. It went by us as we went under a bridge. We were in an 18' tracker and we were dwarfed. I'm talking about a speedboat, not a cruiser.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

I too have seen Miami Vice cigarette style boats at Alum before. They looked to be 40-50 feet long.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Hey fished-out and JamesT, I know what you are saying about Alum. Although it is by far my favorite lake to fish, it does test a persons patience. I don't know which is worse, out on the lake or at the ramps. There are some real winners out there. Of course, I guess that is true on most lakes. It only takes a couple of self-serving idiots to ruin it for others. I think it just shows itself more or there are more of them on the bigger lakes. Maybe if we can get some of the other lakes opened up on the horsepower, so we can at least idle around, we won't have to fight the idiots.:Banane26:


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## luredaddy (May 25, 2004)

I sent an email to Ms. Green asking why they could not develop a consistent policy for the limited HP lakes. You have Pymatuning at 20 HP, Leesville at 9.9 HP, Clearfork no wake, etc....People buy kickers or repower to fish some of these lakes, a consistent policy would help in their choices. No response from Ms. Green.
John


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Luredaddy, glad to hear you sent an email. Maybe we will see a change in the future if everyone will get involved and send the emails and letters. Be patient on the response from Ms. Green. I know from talking to her on the phone that she is really busy with this whole Charles Mill Lake deal. So far, she has done an excellent job of answering emails and returning phone calls that she has recieved from people. I would love to see the state go to unlimited horsepower on all the lakes and regulate them with speed limits and/or no wake zones. Most of the surrounding states regulate this way. We are a little antiquated in the way we regulate our waters. I am sure there are a little politics involved.


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## fished-out (Dec 20, 2005)

If they open it up, here's what I think might happen:
You'll see a little added pressure on the smaller lakes in the spring, fall, and winter (if ice-free), but not as much as you'd think after the first year. I know I'll continue to fish the no speed limit lakes because I didn't buy a 225 to idle all year. Essentially, many of the idiots don't come out until after Memorial Day and the fishing is fine on the larger lakes.

You'll see increased pressure in the summer, because folks like me don't like to contend with the pleasure boaters, etc. But the folks that switch won't be inclined to break the speed limits (I know there will probably be a few morons who do; I've seen them bust the slow zones now), because they're looking for relief, not speed.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

i hate alum in the summer, i hate jet skiers, i hate cigarette boaters, i hate guys that want to drag race down the lake, i hate guys that run there full wake ocean cruisers 20 feet from your boat, i hate guys that park there boats on the docks instead of the courtesy docks, i hate guys that cant back up there trailers, i hate guys that take up two lanes on the ramp. never have understood jet skiing, seems like the equivalant of riding a motorcyle around in a parking lot.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Fished-out, I think you are probably right. It would just be nice to have that choice. Loredofthepunks, tell us what you are really thinking.:curse: Just kiddin'. I know what you mean. It is very aggravating sometimes. Trust me, Pleasant Hill Lake can be (normally is) the same way. All the more reason for a few no wake lakes.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Steeg said:


> Fished-out, I think you are probably right. It would just be nice to have that choice. Loredofthepunks, tell us what you are really thinking.:curse: Just kiddin'. I know what you mean. It is very aggravating sometimes. Trust me, Pleasant Hill Lake can be (normally is) the same way. All the more reason for a few no wake lakes.


i love unlimited horsepower lakes (i have 200 hp bass boat). but im out there to fish. it seems that some peoples sole purpose for being on the water is to create a wake. the wake a bass boat creates on plain is minimal. if your up and moving 60mph, the wake is next to nothing. a boat with a 10hp motor running full bore down the lake creates more wake then a bass boat on plane.

i know i could never have it my way but in my world, the water is for fishing, thats it. i couldnt imagine spending a day on a lake just riding around for no reason annoying all around you except the people that are doing the same thing.

im bitter, i know


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

I am with you lordofthepunks. I also have a nice bass boat with a 150 on it. I agree with you on the wake of a bass boat but try convincing others. Even if you prove it to them they don't want to agree. Which brings us to why I am pushing this Charles Mill Lake unlimited horsepower deal so hard. While not exactly the way I would like to see things, at least it would give us more water to fish and not be aggravated by the "cruisers". I wish they would open all the lakes in Ohio up to unlimited horsepower and regulate them with speed limits or no wake zones and speed zones. That would open up a bunch of new water for us.:Banane44:


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## Wetnet51 (Jun 14, 2006)

If you relied upon speed limits, then you would also need officers and a boat to monitor speeds on the lake.

Not trying to cause issues, just the way I see it.


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## MadMac (May 2, 2005)

You need officers to monitor anything, including hp limits. The only people that are going to go to lakes with speed limits are fisherman. Why would a pleasure boater risk getting a ticket by going to a lake with a 10 mph limit? I think the fisherman would help the officers police themselves. I know I would.


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

I would be all for it if there was a permanent ban on bass tournaments. This is just a ploy to open up a quiet lake to "competitive" fishing. Can't we have a few lakes that are for recreational fishing and no skiing, jet skis and over- aggressive tournament fisherman?


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

Master Angler said:


> I would be all for it if there was a permanent ban on bass tournaments. This is just a ploy to open up a quiet lake to "competitive" fishing. Can't we have a few lakes that are for recreational fishing and no skiing, jet skis and over- aggressive tournament fisherman?


I don't think bass tournaments are unique to big HP lakes. There are just as many at the better 9.9 lakes. Check Piedmont's schedule during the summer months. It's pretty thick with them.
There are probably some at this lake already. Heck. They have them on electric only lakes.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Master Angler said:


> I would be all for it if there was a permanent ban on bass tournaments. This is just a ploy to open up a quiet lake to "competitive" fishing. Can't we have a few lakes that are for recreational fishing and no skiing, jet skis and over- aggressive tournament fisherman?


burr oak has unlimited hp/no wake and it has a weekly pot tournament along with a handful of other tournament throughout the spring. never seen an issue. 

what in the world is an "over aggressive tournament fisherman" ? is that code for a guy in a fiberglass bass boat with big hp in the back? from my perspective we are respectful 99% of the time. we know how to back a trailer, an entire tournament field can have their boats in or out of the water in a matter of 15 minutes. we create little wake when we are running, we are quiet when we are fishing. we move quickly, rarely camping out in the same place for hours at a time. we practice catch and release therefore not depopulating the waters we fish. we dont get drunk and go ride around with our buddies while fishing. we follow every law to a T. 

if you ask me, we are as important to the fishing industry as any other consumer to any outdoor product available and to the successful management of all lakes in every state. without us there would be alot less money to maintain the state parks that you propose to ban us from.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

I am one of those 9.9 guys with a 14 footer lol...I go to pymatuning mainly with mine..I just dont know...I have never been to the lake in question..But I have been to west branch and mosquito and did not enjoy my time at those places..I know its being proposed in a manner that is not trying to get it turned into a mad house like the above mentioned places..But we all know there are people who will always take a mile when given an inch..Pymatuning is nice cause its huge,and no one trys to blow your doors off and such..Its a really friendly place to go...Its 14,000 acres plus,so is twice the size of mosquito..There would be alot of places on the lake to go over the speed limit quit easiley unless there were more DNR officers on the lake..I could understand maybe up to 50 hp,with maybe a 15mph limit...That would really help out the pontoon guys and allow fishermen to go with a bigger,safer boat...I think it would also keep alot of the pleasure boaters away with their antics cause they would have higher hp cruisers for the most part..But I have seen my share of fisherman showing little respect to other boaters as well..There are quite a few electric only places that will probably never go gas though...


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Master Angler, I am sorry you think that my trying to get unlimited horsepower with no wake is a ploy for bass tournaments. Nothing could be further from the truth. It just jerks my aching tail that I live 5 min. from an excellent lake to fish and I can't idle around this lake, that my tax dollars support, because my engine is to big. If it is a public lake, regulate it with speed limits or no wake and let all the public have access to it. Iraqvet, you state "I could understand maybe up to 50 hp,with maybe a 15mph limit...". Can I ask, if it is 15 mph limit, what makes any difference what the horsepower is? You can speed with a 50hp just as well as a 250hp and probably more likely to with the smaller horsepower. Has it ever occured to you why they don't regulate or limit the horsepower of the cars and trucks out on the road? They don't because they know horsepower isn't the reason people speed and it is much easier to enforce a speed limit. The bottom line is, they have proven on other lakes that they can and do regulate with speed zones and wake zones and it works.:good:


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Steeg said:


> Master Angler, I am sorry you think that my trying to get unlimited horsepower with no wake is a ploy for bass tournaments. Nothing could be further from the truth. It just jerks my aching tail that I live 5 min. from an excellent lake to fish and I can't idle around this lake, that my tax dollars support, because my engine is to big. If it is a public lake, regulate it with speed limits or no wake and let all the public have access to it. Iraqvet, you state "I could understand maybe up to 50 hp,with maybe a 15mph limit...". Can I ask, if it is 15 mph limit, what makes any difference what the horsepower is? You can speed with a 50hp just as well as a 250hp and probably more likely to with the smaller horsepower. Has it ever occured to you why they don't regulate or limit the horsepower of the cars and trucks out on the road? They don't because they know horsepower isn't the reason people speed and it is much easier to enforce a speed limit. The bottom line is, they have proven on other lakes that they can and do regulate with speed zones and wake zones and it works.:good:


Steeg I think that a 50hp motor could be put on smaller open bow cruisers and bigger pontoons and the size of the boats would help keep the size of the motor in check...As outdoorsmen we should stick together..But sadly there are some bad apples in the group,along with the hard headed pleasure boaters..You say that these stipulations work on other lakes..Are you goin by accident rate??..I am sure there are alot of near misses that go unreported,along with the guys who do not get caught leaving wakes and goin over the speed limit..If you read enough on this site you will see some stories about near misses happening quit frequintly on unlimted lakes..Like the guys who have the whole lake to go by you,yet still have to pass you while only being like 15 feet away..Not to mention having to deal with being a "second class" boater because your boat isnt new and shiny so, those guys think they get priorety at the docks,ramps, and when navigating on the lake...I also think the increased fishing pressure would also make the lakes suffer...Sorry..It just seems like there are tons of well off guys who pay $1,000,s for boats and think the laws should be changed to accomadate them,yet they cant justify spending maybe $1200 for a decent little rig that will get them on all of the gas lakes??..If I lived 5 minutes from a restricted lake,I wouldnt have bought a 250hp boat and started complaining...And I am not sure about your car analogy...Regular car engines are not made to run wide open all the time..I dont think the U.S. will ever see a hp restriction on cars..


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> ...Regular car engines are not made to run wide open all the time..I dont think the U.S. will ever see a hp restriction on cars..


the problem with this statement is this. not everyone is driving around in a car with a "regular car engine". if your car has the proper safety equipment (ie lights, wipers, bumpers, glass etc.) then it doesnt matter how much horsepower your rocking. you can put a full, alcohol burning drag motor with 10,000 horsepower in your chevy beretta and drive it wherever you please as long as you dont break the speed limit. it makes perfect sense to compare it to boats and lakes.


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

To be fair, I guess I shouldn't have lumped all basser/tourney fishers together. I live/ pontoon boat on the Portage Lakes and there are a ridiculous number of tournaments. I don't have a problem sharing the water but the majority of bass tourney fisherman have very little courtesy to fellow fisherman. If i am anchored and clearly fishing (crappie in spring) anyone coming within casting distance is a basshole. I can't tell you how many times I have had guys boat within 20 feet of me while anchored. I had two guys this spring attempt to cut between me and the dock I was anchored in front of in their quest to spot bedding bass. When I said something about cutting in front of me they claimed to have not seen me - in a 21 foot anchored pontoon. At least with engine restrictions I know that there won't be any big $ bass boaters around. The guys running tourneys on Ladue or on 9.9 restricted lakes can't/won't blow up on people and generally are more respective of space. The state is broke and doesn't have money for an army of water craft officers. Passive restrictions such as motor size limits are much more cost effective than constant patrols. Some people enjoy laid back fishing and boating and run-n-gun fisherman ruin the enjoyment. Stress ruins the fishing experience for me.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> the problem with this statement is this. not everyone is driving around in a car with a "regular car engine". if your car has the proper safety equipment (ie lights, wipers, bumpers, glass etc.) then it doesnt matter how much horsepower your rocking. you can put a full, alcohol burning drag motor with 10,000 horsepower in your chevy beretta and drive it wherever you please as long as you dont break the speed limit. it makes perfect sense to compare it to boats and lakes.


No it dosnt...Everyone can go where they please in what they want when it comes to cars..You know way ahead of time where you can and cant go with your boat..Your trying to compare apples to oranges...


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Master Angler said:


> To be fair, I guess I shouldn't have lumped all basser/tourney fishers together. I live/ pontoon boat on the Portage Lakes and there are a ridiculous number of tournaments. I don't have a problem sharing the water but the majority of bass tourney fisherman have very little courtesy to fellow fisherman. If i am anchored and clearly fishing (crappie in spring) anyone coming within casting distance is a basshole. I can't tell you how many times I have had guys boat within 20 feet of me while anchored. I had two guys this spring attempt to cut between me and the dock I was anchored in front of in their quest to spot bedding bass. When I said something about cutting in front of me they claimed to have not seen me - in a 21 foot anchored pontoon. At least with engine restrictions I know that there won't be any big $ bass boaters around. The guys running tourneys on Ladue or on 9.9 restricted lakes can't/won't blow up on people and generally are more respective of space. The state is broke and doesn't have money for an army of water craft officers. Passive restrictions such as motor size limits are much more cost effective than constant patrols. Some people enjoy laid back fishing and boating and run-n-gun fisherman ruin the enjoyment. Stress ruins the fishing experience for me.


Very well put...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> No it dosnt...Everyone can go where they please in what they want when it comes to cars..You know way ahead of time where you can and cant go with your boat..Your trying to compare apples to oranges...


that is the problem! cars arent limited to certain areas based on horsepower, neither should boats be. should my 1969 camaro be limited to only driving on the interstate since it has 425 hp? should i not be allowed to drive my 2004 gto down an alley because it has 350hp? should my boat not be allowed in certain lakes cuz it has 200hp? i dont think so.

ive said this before and it made some people mad. the only people against this is people with 9.9hp. if they had a 250 on the back, they would feel differently

ive been fishing out of a bass boat since i was 15 years old, ive never seen a guy in a bass boat speeding on a lake with a speed limit. we regulate ourselves. no wake is no wake, the people that tend to break this law are the pleasure boaters that are on the water 2 days a year. these are the same guys with no etiquette on the ramp. there is little chance a guy with a 300hp pleasure boat is going to take his cruiser to a "no wake" lake even if it is unlimited horsepower. at least ive never seen that.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Iraqvet said:


> Steeg I think that a 50hp motor could be put on smaller open bow cruisers and bigger pontoons and the size of the boats would help keep the size of the motor in check...As outdoorsmen we should stick together..But sadly there are some bad apples in the group,along with the hard headed pleasure boaters..You say that these stipulations work on other lakes..Are you goin by accident rate??..I am sure there are alot of near misses that go unreported,along with the guys who do not get caught leaving wakes and goin over the speed limit..If you read enough on this site you will see some stories about near misses happening quit frequintly on unlimted lakes..Like the guys who have the whole lake to go by you,yet still have to pass you while only being like 15 feet away..Not to mention having to deal with being a "second class" boater because your boat isnt new and shiny so, those guys think they get priorety at the docks,ramps, and when navigating on the lake...I also think the increased fishing pressure would also make the lakes suffer...Sorry..It just seems like there are tons of well off guys who pay $1,000,s for boats and think the laws should be changed to accomadate them,yet they cant justify spending maybe $1200 for a decent little rig that will get them on all of the gas lakes??..If I lived 5 minutes from a restricted lake,I wouldnt have bought a 250hp boat and started complaining...And I am not sure about your car analogy...Regular car engines are not made to run wide open all the time..I dont think the U.S. will ever see a hp restriction on cars..


 Some still don't seem to get it.What's the chances of an accident on a lake that has an idle speed/no wake limit? It doesn't matter if you're in a bass boat with a 250,or a boat with a 9.9,if you're going at idle speed,even if you did bump into somebody,damage would be minimal.You think if they allowed 250's on Charles Mill,the fishing would suffer? Please explain.There wouldn't be any more pressure on that lake then there is now.I have a new Ranger bass boat,and I fish Charles Mill a lot,I just use my TM,there's many other bass boats there that do the same.Why would the state have to hire any additional watercraft officers? I live very close to Knox Lake,which has the idle speed for large motors,I also fish there quite a lot,and I haven't noticed any more officers there than there ever was before the law.Clear Fork has an 8mph limit,go there some time and ask the ranger how many speeding tickets they've issued there in the last 25 years,answer-none.Bass fishermen respect the law,go to any major tournament,watch when we come into weigh-in,you'll never see a single boat creating a wake in the no-wake zone-ever.However,many times when we're idling out through the no-wake zone to start our day,and when we our returning to end our day,many,many times we are passed by guys in the 9.9's who obviously have no idea what no-wake means.I definitely agree with LOTP,the same guys that have issues with this,are the same guys that had issues about this same topic when it concerned Hoover Lake.These are the 9.9 guys that obviously believe that even though we all pay taxes for our recreational areas,that only they are entitled to use them.Saying that because we have a $50,000 bass boat,we should be able to pop out another $1200.00 for a small 9.9 powered boat,is a reply I would expect to hear from this group.Before we do that,maybe you should try to save up $50,000 and buy a bass boat,then you would know how both sides feel.
Steeg,I have been in a couple of tournaments at C.Mill that after going through a few channels,they allowed us to use our main engines at idle speed.I've heard this from guys that have fished other lakes as well.Judging from that,I don't think it's going to be very far down the road to when they do lift the hp restrictions on all lakes.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> that is the problem! cars arent limited to certain areas based on horsepower, neither should boats be. should my 1969 camaro be limited to only driving on the interstate since it has 425 hp? should i not be allowed to drive my 2004 gto down an alley because it has 350hp? should my boat not be allowed in certain lakes cuz it has 200hp? i dont think so.
> 
> ive said this before and it made some people mad. the only people against this is people with 9.9hp. if they had a 250 on the back, they would feel differently
> 
> ive been fishing out of a bass boat since i was 15 years old, ive never seen a guy in a bass boat speeding on a lake with a speed limit. we regulate ourselves. no wake is no wake, the people that tend to break this law are the pleasure boaters that are on the water 2 days a year. these are the same guys with no etiquette on the ramp. there is little chance a guy with a 300hp pleasure boat is going to take his cruiser to a "no wake" lake even if it is unlimited horsepower. at least ive never seen that.


Roads also have lines,stop signs,red lights etc etc..I dont see the same on lakes??..I also think you should go out more if you think everyone who has a bass boat never speeds or makes wakes..Or passes someone who is not under power,while the bass boats doin full speed and has to be within 20 ft of you cause he wants you to get a good view of his boat...Your right,I dont have the 250,and probably never will...I will never need more then what I have,and it leaves me way more options...No one made anyone buy the boat they have...Thats a choice people made,now they want the laws changed around for them after their choice of boats may not have been a good one...


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> Some still don't seem to get it.What's the chances of an accident on a lake that has an idle speed/no wake limit? It doesn't matter if you're in a bass boat with a 250,or a boat with a 9.9,if you're going at idle speed,even if you did bump into somebody,damage would be minimal.You think if they allowed 250's on Charles Mill,the fishing would suffer? Please explain.There wouldn't be any more pressure on that lake then there is now.I have a new Ranger bass boat,and I fish Charles Mill a lot,I just use my TM,there's many other bass boats there that do the same.Why would the state have to hire any additional watercraft officers? I live very close to Knox Lake,which has the idle speed for large motors,I also fish there quite a lot,and I haven't noticed any more officers there than there ever was before the law.Clear Fork has an 8mph limit,go there some time and ask the ranger how many speeding tickets they've issued there in the last 25 years,answer-none.Bass fishermen respect the law,go to any major tournament,watch when we come into weigh-in,you'll never see a single boat creating a wake in the no-wake zone-ever.However,many times when we're idling out through the no-wake zone to start our day,and when we our returning to end our day,many,many times we are passed by guys in the 9.9's who obviously have no idea what no-wake means.I definitely agree with LOTP,the same guys that have issues with this,are the same guys that had issues about this same topic when it concerned Hoover Lake.These are the 9.9 guys that obviously believe that even though we all pay taxes for our recreational areas,that only they are entitled to use them.Saying that because we have a $50,000 bass boat,we should be able to pop out another $1200.00 for a small 9.9 powered boat,is a reply I would expect to hear from this group.Before we do that,maybe you should try to save up $50,000 and buy a bass boat,then you would know how both sides feel.
> Steeg,I have been in a couple of tournaments at C.Mill that after going through a few channels,they allowed us to use our main engines at idle speed.I've heard this from guys that have fished other lakes as well.Judging from that,I don't think it's going to be very far down the road to when they do lift the hp restrictions on all lakes.


I think when people see its unrestricted,yeah common sense would tell you there would be alot more people showin up...Sorry,I will probably never save 50k for a bass boat...They never made any sense to me..People smirck at a 50K bass boat,yet cringe when someone suggest they buy a boat that will get them on just about all the lakes..I cant understand the theory behind that one??..I do think it will be farther down the road then you think...Pymatuning will probably never go unlimited,cause that would take the state of PA to do it..Along with the string of electric only lakes that supply Akron with some of its drinking water...


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> ive said this before and it made some people mad. the only people against this is people with 9.9hp. if they had a 250 on the back, they would feel differently


No they woundn't. I have a 25hp on my little boat. I got an undersized 25hp as I wanted to fish Atwood. If I want to do Piedmont, Leesville, Clendenning and Walborn I can either get a 9.9 or use a kayak (and I do cause I love the lakes).
For Moggy or LaDue, I have to remove the gas tank and motor.
I have fished Charles Mill before in a kayak because I couldn't take the boat out and didn't want to electric motor everywhere.You can do the same too.
I don't support taking away a peaceful and quiet place for the "little people" to fish without the hassles of big motor boats flying around.




> ive been fishing out of a bass boat since i was 15 years old, ive never seen a guy in a bass boat speeding on a lake with a speed limit. we regulate ourselves. no wake is no wake, the people that tend to break this law are the pleasure boaters that are on the water 2 days a year. /QUOTE]
> 
> Here ya go. I can post dozens more if you like. These are all the NO WAKE zone on the entire western end of West Branch. They don't care what the laws are.


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## Marshall (Apr 11, 2004)

Its not the type of boat that is the problem, its the people that use them. I don't care what boat the idiot is in, he will find a way to piss someone off and break the rules at any lake. Sadly thats how the world works for everything. Maybe we just need a little chlorine in the gene pool!

How much someone spends on a boat is totally irrelevant to this topic. I get tired of hearing about the guy with the expensive bass boat. Maybe he works hard so he can buy his boat. Thats his choice. Price does not effect the way someone follows the law, its back to the individual.

To all the bassboat haters, idiots come in all boats. Yes there are bassholes and yes there are guys who troll right over my lines when im fishing a point. There are guys in the little boats that anchor in the middle of the lake in the speed zone. There are guys with 9.9s that don't know what idol means and yes there are guys with big motors that don't know what idol means. I could go on forever. My point is you cant just single out the bassboaters, its everywhere because it not the boat its the person operating the boat be it a pontoon, jon, deep v, bass or pleasuer boat.

My reason why i don't want to spend 1500 bucks for a small hp boat. I like haveing a large deck to stand on while i fish. I like to have lots of DRY storage to put my gear when i fish. I like the stability of a bassboat and it is flat out more comfortable to be in. As you can tell im for idol speed limits but here is the way i see it. I bought my boat to fish unlimited lakes but if a lake opens up that will accomodate my boat (Meaning idol) im all for it and just gives me a different place to fish. Im totally against opening up these nice lakes to all out unlimited no speed limit. But thats not what was proposed. and don't give me that crap all bassboats will be flying around on plane out there. There will be rule breakes ( of all styles of boats) but 99 percent of the people will follow the rules like they do at knox and clearfork.


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## pal21 (Mar 9, 2008)

I will back up what Lewzer says. I was on W.Branch maybe 25 times this year. There were no wake violatons seen just about every time out. I never see any enforcement.

Two things to consider. First, the state is broke, so how will they pay for enforcement? 

Second, will the facilities at the smaller lakes be able to handle increased traffic?


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## pal21 (Mar 9, 2008)

Now that I think about it, any changes made on MWCD lakes should be voted on by the people that pay to lease cottage sites or docks. At least their opinion should carry more weight than anyone else.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Oh the webs we weave! Iraqvet, the one thing you did say right is "there are some bad apples" in the bunch. When you question my basis of "this works on other lakes", I refer to data fact kept by our own ODNR. Look it up. I can give you 6 lakes to reference for a start, Clearfork, Knox, LaSuAn, Oxbow, Rupert and Burr Oak. Three minor complaints in the last few years. No reported accidents in the last few years. Did anyone break any of the rules on these lakes that went unreported? I am sure they did, just as they did before they were unlimited horsepower lakes. You can't legislate away stupidity! You will always have that few. Because I have a nice boat has nothing to do with wanting the law changed. I will promise, you I pay more than my fair share in taxes that support these lakes. I just believe if I am going to help pay for keeping something up, then I should be able to use it with the boat I have. My car analogy is actually pretty simple. They don't regulate the horsepower on vehicles on the road, they regulate the speed by what the particular area the road lies in warrants. Different roads and areas require different speed regulations. Run what ya brung, just follow the law. Same should be for the boats. Don't discriminate against me because of what I drive. Master Anger, sorry you have had that kind of crap happen. There is no excuse for people that act like that, no matter what kind of boat they are in. Lewzer, nice pics. I am sure you turned them in, right? Again, no excuses for the idiots. Marshall, you are exactly right. Couldn't agree with you more. Pal21, why would you think that any horsepower change on MWCD lakes, should be voted on by the people that pay lease for docking, camping or cottage sites? If you are under the assumption that their lease money goes to keep the lake up, you better think again. Tax payers keep that lake up along with money from ODNR, that is aquired through boat registrations, marine sales, fishing equipment, etc. We better not get into whose pocket their money lines. Their input and opinion should carry no more or no less weight than anyone else. Geez, did I miss anyone?:Banane26:


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

BTW Iraqvet, if you get a chance, read the original letter I posted to start this thread. All the stated information came straight from ODNR DOW. Hope this helps you understand where I am coming from.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> Lewzer, nice pics. I am sure you turned them in, right? Again, no excuses for the idiots.
> 
> Read more: http://www.crappie.com/crappie[/QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> Roads also have lines,stop signs,red lights etc etc..I dont see the same on lakes??..I also think you should go out more if you think everyone who has a bass boat never speeds or makes wakes..Or passes someone who is not under power,while the bass boats doin full speed and has to be within 20 ft of you cause he wants you to get a good view of his boat...Your right,I dont have the 250,and probably never will...I will never need more then what I have,and it leaves me way more options...No one made anyone buy the boat they have...Thats a choice people made,now they want the laws changed around for them after their choice of boats may not have been a good one...


do lakes that have unlimited horsepower have lines, stop signs, red lights etc.? thats right, none of them do so why do some lakes have the horsepower rule and some dont? there is zero evidence that it would change anything. i fish burr oak all the time, have yet to see a reason to pay extra money for state officials to patrol that water.

you think i should go out more? i prob spend 3 or 4 times as much time on water as the average fisherman. 25 to 35 hours a week from march to october. i travel out of state regularly.

ive been on both sides of this equation as well. my first boat i got for christmas when i was 12 years old. what did it have? 9.9 and even then i couldnt understand why lake rupert had a horsepower limit when all you had to do is put a speed restriction on the lake. (imagine that, a 12 year old understands the concept). the reason i knew about this then? my dad asked me what kind of motor i wanted, i told him what any normal person would say, i wanted the biggest i could get. dad replied with "lake ruppert has a hp limit of 10" my reply, "thats retarded, why not just put a speed limit on the lake".

my choice of boats may not have been a good one? i can go anywhere i want in my boat, i have tons of tackle storage area, i dont have to empty the boat when im done fishing, i can stand up to fish, i have enough deck space to put 10 rods on my deck and not step on one, i can travel 10 miles in less then 10 minutes, i dont have to remove my motor when im done fishing, or my batteries, i have two livewells that will hold more bass than most people can catch in a week, it takes more then a breeze to blow me off a spot. i have a steering wheel, and to top it all off, ITS PRETTY. i would say i made a great decision


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Lewzer said:


> > Lewzer, nice pics. I am sure you turned them in, right? Again, no excuses for the idiots.
> >
> > Read more: http://www.crappie.com/crappie[/QUOTE]
> >
> ...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Lewzer said:


> No they woundn't. I have a 25hp on my little boat. I got an undersized 25hp as I wanted to fish Atwood. If I want to do Piedmont, Leesville, Clendenning and Walborn I can either get a 9.9 or use a kayak (and I do cause I love the lakes).
> For Moggy or LaDue, I have to remove the gas tank and motor.
> I have fished Charles Mill before in a kayak because I couldn't take the boat out and didn't want to electric motor everywhere.You can do the same too.
> I don't support taking away a peaceful and quiet place for the "little people" to fish without the hassles of big motor boats flying around.
> ...


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Wow punk, Now who's getting pissy???

I hesitated to voice my opinion on ruining 9.9 lakes due to the inevitable pissing match but I did and look what showed up...again.

Anyway, I sent my opinion to the person as Steeg requested. Now it's out of my hands. Have a wonderful day.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> do lakes that have unlimited horsepower have lines, stop signs, red lights etc.? thats right, none of them do so why do some lakes have the horsepower rule and some dont? there is zero evidence that it would change anything. i fish burr oak all the time, have yet to see a reason to pay extra money for state officials to patrol that water.
> 
> you think i should go out more? i prob spend 3 or 4 times as much time on water as the average fisherman. 25 to 35 hours a week from march to october. i travel out of state regularly.
> 
> ...


Thats exactly the "better then you attitude" that we are talking about..Also,I can take my boat more places in the state then you..FACT..Obviously you are upset cause you cant take yours to alot of places in the state,right??..Brag about your boat,but it will never be able to go where mine can..Which is what we are talking about right??..So I guess I made a pretty good purchase with NO COMPLAINTS on where I can or cant go...Which in Ohio,I can go anywhere really..I have a 55# thrust electric motor that can move me pretty well on electric only lakes....




lordofthepunks said:


> Lewzer said:
> 
> 
> > Lewzer said:
> ...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

not trying to get into a pissing match, just pointing out the holes in your argument. everything, and i mean EVERY excuse people make for not changing a lake to unlimmited hp with no wake/speed limit can easily be proven to be false. 

#1- "i like a quiet lake" - response, "whats quiet about 10hp 2 stoke motor that sounds like a chainsaw.

#2- "people will speed" - it happens everywhere, every lake has a bad apple, a hp change doesnt make a bit of diff.

#3- "boo whoo, i dont like tournaments" - what lake in ohio doesnt have tournaments other then lakes with less then 100 acres, or ones that just dont have bass.

#4 - "i dont want accidents" - no accidents have occured on any of the lakes that have changed to a unlimited hp, no wake/speed limit.

#5 - "we dont have enough to patrol all the lakes" when have we ever had enough to patrol all the lakes, i have seen odnr on burr oak 1 time in the past 5 years. still no accidents, how could this possibly be?

#6 - "bass boats create too much waaaaaake." not as much as a 10hp v bottom running at full throttle, which i also will remind you again sounds like a husqvarna.

#7 - "i dont want too much traffic" you mean, "i dont want to compete for fish with other guys that know how to fish" or "i want this lake to myself even though i spend the same amount of money to buy licenses for my boat and trailer as everyone else"


did i miss any? if so, please remind me so that i may rebutt


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> whats quiet and peaceful about a 9.9 running full boar down the lake, putting off a 3' wake with a couple of drunk ******** yelling at eachother about where to catch channel cats? seen this more then once back in the day, my god, what are we going to do, we are gonna have to hire some more rangers to patrol lake rupert in vinton county cuz its being overrun with idiots.
> 
> my yamaha hpdi is quieter then nearly every 9.9 hp ive ever heard.


Not very nice to say??..Why are we ******** cause we have boats built for a prupose,not for looks??..I dont drink and boat..EVER...Statements like that are not gonna help people vote in your favor..I think you just lost a few..


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> not trying to get into a pissing match, just pointing out the holes in your argument. everything, and i mean EVERY excuse people make for not changing a lake to unlimmited hp with no wake/speed limit can easily be proven to be false.
> 
> #1- "i like a quiet lake" - response, "whats quiet about 10hp 2 stoke motor that sounds like a chainsaw.
> 
> ...


LOTP,why say you dont want it to be a peeing contest if you are gonna throw out the insults..They are there for you to refference if you want to find them..I can also say,just because someone has a bass boat,dosnt mean they can fish!!..You are stating opinions,not facts...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> Thats exactly the "better then you attitude" that we are talking about..Also,I can take my boat more places in the state then you..FACT..Obviously you are upset cause you cant take yours to alot of places in the state,right??..Brag about your boat,but it will never be able to go where mine can..Which is what we are talking about right??..So I guess I made a pretty good purchase with NO COMPLAINTS on where I can or cant go...Which in Ohio,I can go anywhere really..I have a 55# thrust electric motor that can move me pretty well on electric only lakes....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> Not very nice to say??..Why are we ******** cause we have boats built for a prupose,not for looks??..I dont drink and boat..EVER...Statements like that are not gonna help people vote in your favor..I think you just lost a few..


i am not reffering to you, and i am also not saying that people fishing out of john boats are ********. the people that i saw that day were in fact ********, i wasnt calling anyone a ******* other then the people i saw that particular day. the point is, no matter what your fishing in, whether its a 9.9 or a 250, people can ruin a lake


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> Not very nice to say??..Why are we ******** cause we have boats built for a prupose,not for looks??..I dont drink and boat..EVER...Statements like that are not gonna help people vote in your favor..I think you just lost a few..


im not vying for votes, i am just simply pointing out the misconceptions that people with smaller boats are stuck on. i dont even know where this lake is, i just hate the idea that a law exists that makes zero sense and its enforced. i would love to fish hoover but i dont because i dont want to burn up my trolling motor.

i offend people, i get that, im sorry for being offensive. i just feel really strong about this and no one has given me a legit reason why these restrictions exist. thats all


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> any place you can take your boat that i cant is a place that you wouldnt need a boat for anyway (tiny creek, farm pond, etc.) i have had my boat on plenty of electric motor only lakes as i have 101lb of thrust and moves me around pretty well, lol.
> 
> look, im not trying to act like im better then anyone else, all im saying is that i have as much of a right to fish water as anyone else, my freaking motor size shouldnt have any impact on whether or not i can fish a body of water. just like your car motor has no impact on where you can drive.
> 
> if i cant get my boat on water because i cant access it, then so be it but if it has a ramp and other gas motors are allowed, then mine should be allowed as well. thats all im saying


I think you would still find yourself wrong on that statement..I also wonder how do you get your gas motor off and such when your at home??..I know of 7 lakes in a 20 mile radius that wont let you keep your gas motor on or a gas tank while on those lakes..So you would be breakng the law cause I take it your gas tank on your boat is not portable??




lordofthepunks said:


> i am not reffering to you, and i am also not saying that people fishing out of john boats are ********. the people that i saw that day were in fact ********, i wasnt calling anyone a ******* other then the people i saw that particular day. the point is, no matter what your fishing in, whether its a 9.9 or a 250, people can ruin a lake


That looked like a mass blanketing statement to me...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> I think you would still find yourself wrong on that statement..I also wonder how do you get your gas motor off and such when your at home??..I know of 7 lakes in a 20 mile radius that wont let you keep your gas motor on or a gas tank while on those lakes..So you would be breakng the law cause I take it your gas tank on your boat is not portable??


where do you live? nothing like that around here. if a lake is an "electric motor only" lake then i have zero arguments about any rules that say a gas motor cant be run on that lake. im only questioning lakes that allow gas motors. look, i dont care where you can get your boat in and where i cant, im sure your not going to be rolling out on kentucky lake when there are 30mph south winds either. the point is, i have yet to see a place where i want to fish that i couldnt. no big deal. i just think its unjust and rather dumb to allow a 10hp boat run a lake a 12 mph but not allow a 250hp boat run at 3mph. doesnt make any sense to me.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> where do you live? nothing like that around here. if a lake is an "electric motor only" lake then i have zero arguments about any rules that say a gas motor cant be run on that lake. im only questioning lakes that allow gas motors. look, i dont care where you can get your boat in and where i cant, im sure your not going to be rolling out on kentucky lake when there are 30mph south winds either. the point is, i have yet to see a place where i want to fish that i couldnt. no big deal. i just think its unjust and rather dumb to allow a 10hp boat run a lake a 12 mph but not allow a 250hp boat run at 3mph. doesnt make any sense to me.


I live in Ashtabula,and those lakes are down in Geauga...Has anyone also considered the fact that some of these lakes would also need thousands of $$ spent on them to increase the number of boat ramps and parking facilities??..Who should be responsible for that??..I think these places found out early on that temptation proved to be to much when it came to what boat motors are capable of..Lets say your doin 3mph..Bob decides to do 5mph,cause no one is around to cite him...Well now john thinks he can do 7mph cause bob is doin 5mph and isnt getting in trouble...You used your words to insult a man who gave you picture proof of boaters doing what they aint supposed to..So who do you get mad at when law breakers get turnd in??..You say you have no clue about this lake..Why try and change how it works when you have no clue about the outcome..I have never been there,but it sounds fine the way it is to me..


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## Marshall (Apr 11, 2004)

Time to get the ice augers fired up guys. But make sure they are under 10 hp Winter has set in lets let the state decide.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> I live in Ashtabula,and those lakes are down in Geauga...Has anyone also considered the fact that some of these lakes would also need thousands of $$ spent on them to increase the number of boat ramps and parking facilities??..Who should be responsible for that??..I think these places found out early on that temptation proved to be to much when it came to what boat motors are capable of..Lets say your doin 3mph..Bob decides to do 5mph,cause no one is around to cite him...Well now john thinks he can do 7mph cause bob is doin 5mph and isnt getting in trouble...You used your words to insult a man who gave you picture proof of boaters doing what they aint supposed to..So who do you get mad at when law breakers get turnd in??..You say you have no clue about this lake..Why try and change how it works when you have no clue about the outcome..I have never been there,but it sounds fine the way it is to me..


nothing has to change with parking facilities, traffic at burr oak and lake rupert hasnt caused the state to make any changes to the facilities and current facilities are working just fine. again, excuse shot down.

lets say your doin 3 and bob is doing 5 then you decide to do 7 cuz no one is around to cite him, if no one is around to site you, whats keeping you from running a 250hp on a 10hp lake if no one is around to cite you. if people are going to break the law, then it doesnt matter what the law is. 

me wanting it changed having never been there is non more absurd then you wanting it to be the same having never been there.

i have no clue about the outcome, other then it has worked at plenty of other lakes perfectly well with similar amount of acreage and similar amount of pressure with no apperant drawbacks other then people with 10hp getting upset about a change to their private lake.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

The only problem I have ever had with restricted HP lakes is the funding.

All boaters monies are used to fund these lakes and yet many because of motor size have no access. 

I have always believed that you need to pay for your toys and not have someone pay for them for you. 

I would support a user fee for all restricted HP lakes along with all registrations for boats with motor under 10HP. These monies collected at each lake being used to support that lake and monies from the general fund from boater registration with motors over 9.9 not going to support those lakes but that money being used at lake without restricted HP.

OR keep it the way it is on funding and prohibit any boat with a motor less than 10HP from using the non restricted lakes.

OR open all of the lakes up and place speed limits or no wake areas where appropriate.


To me it is all about the funding and equal costs for equal access.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

This is turning into the same type of mess the Hoover 9.9 versus 250 topic turned into.We just need to be more civil so this can stay open.I have no problem sharing any water with the smaller boats,don't know of any bass guys that do.However,on inland lakes I do have a problem with the huge(in some cases 30' or more)pleasure boats/yachts.It's not only Alum that has these,Pleasant Hill has a few of these behemoths too.This is the truth,I have never seen a bass boat crowd out anybody that's fishing a spot,we're not allowed to do that in a tournament,and we don't do it at other times.I'm afraid I would have to see proof of this before I would believe it.I do know of several cases where it's been the other way though,as I've had it happen to me on several instances.The very last time I had my boat out this past fall on Pleasant Hill Lake,I was working a deep point.I was probably no farther out from the bank than maybe 35 yards,when here come 2 dudes in a 14'er with a 9.9 trolling for saugeye(I guess),they proceeded to go between me and the bank,and never even so much as gave me a look.The guy that said that people that have a home,cottage or land at any of the MWCD lakes should have a say in this matter,why? Our money(sportsmen)pay for these lakes,not theirs,they lease the land from the government.Lewzer the next time you have your camera with you out on a lake,try taking these action photos-seriously.Take a pic of a bass boat on plane,then take another of a 9.9 at full throttle,then post your pictures on here for everybody to see which boat creates the most disturbance.I'm sure you already know this,I don't know why you act like you don't.I'm also very sure that nobody has read any of these posts and then formed an opinion on how they feel about this topic.The people that are against larger motors on their lakes,will still have the same opinions,and vice versa.I am totally positive that we will see the hp restrictions dropped,Pymatuning and the MWCD lakes included,sometime in the near future.I've been informed that the state plans to open up new lakes every other year,with up to eight lakes on the target list.Nobody thought it would happen at Knox,Oxbow and the others either,but it's only fair,and it makes sense.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Iraqvet said:


> I live in Ashtabula,and those lakes are down in Geauga...Has anyone also considered the fact that some of these lakes would also need thousands of $$ spent on them to increase the number of boat ramps and parking facilities??..Who should be responsible for that??..I think these places found out early on that temptation proved to be to much when it came to what boat motors are capable of..Lets say your doin 3mph..Bob decides to do 5mph,cause no one is around to cite him...Well now john thinks he can do 7mph cause bob is doin 5mph and isnt getting in trouble...You used your words to insult a man who gave you picture proof of boaters doing what they aint supposed to..So who do you get mad at when law breakers get turnd in??..You say you have no clue about this lake..Why try and change how it works when you have no clue about the outcome..I have never been there,but it sounds fine the way it is to me..


 They have not needed to increase the number of ramps,or anything else at Knox Lake since they made it a no hp restriction lake.For those that don't know,Knox Lake is considered by many to be the best bass lake in the state,inland anyway.To listen to some of your arguements,you would think that now that we can run our bass boats on Knox,the lake would be crawling with evil bass fishermen.I fish there a lot,and I don't see anymore bass boats on it now as I did before.Why do they need any more officers to patrol any lake that has no hp restrictions,versus the 10hp lakes? You bring up temptations? C'mon man! Do you think guys with high-powered bass boats are 16-sheesh.We all know which lakes we can go to if we want to run our boats at high speeds,why would we want to go to Knox Lake and do 70mph,get real dude.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Your right HH,we need to keep this civil..You say you need proof of the Bass boaters actin up?.Why?..Its pretty comon knowledge it happens..But then tell us stories about 9.9 guys,and that leaves us with what??..I have seen way less near misses in 9.9s the I have with the bigger boats,..And yes I agree with you about the large cruisers..I would also like to reiterate that Pymatuning is not an OH only lake..PA holds more authority then OH does on it..Wardens on both sides will say the same...They will also agree that the locals like it the way it is..Its the out of towners who have a problem with that lake bein restricted...That lake is 15-16 times bigger then the little 1000 acre lakes being talked about..It would be way harder to enforce regs there...Thats one lake I dont see changin very soon at all...They had to fight tooth and nail for years to get it bumped up to 20hp...


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> They have not needed to increase the number of ramps,or anything else at Knox Lake since they made it a no hp restriction lake.For those that don't know,Knox Lake is considered by many to be the best bass lake in the state,inland anyway.To listen to some of your arguements,you would think that now that we can run our bass boats on Knox,the lake would be crawling with evil bass fishermen.I fish there a lot,and I don't see anymore bass boats on it now as I did before.Why do they need any more officers to patrol any lake that has no hp restrictions,versus the 10hp lakes? You bring up temptations? C'mon man! Do you think guys with high-powered bass boats are 16-sheesh.We all know which lakes we can go to if we want to run our boats at high speeds,why would we want to go to Knox Lake and do 70mph,get real dude.


No one is saying bass fisherman are evil..I am just saying I have dealt with more who had their heads you know where then say the muskie and pike guys..I am actually pretty real...As you stated,there are places you guys can go and be free to do whatever..Why take way from other people just because??


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

I have recently fished: Alum Creek, Griggs, Hoover, Salt Fork, Indian, Burr Oak, Cutler Lake, Belmont Lake, Wolf Run, Rush Creek, Rupert, Lake Alma, Tycoon, Dow, Snowden, Hargus Creek, Rockmill, Oakthorpe, Buckeye Lake, Erie, Deer Creek, Paint Creek, Rocky Fork, Hocking River, Yellow Creek, and a handful of others.

Horsepower may be the subject, but it is not the issue...

My guess is that from the "State" perspective, it has more to do with the impact on the shoreline and the overall traffic on the lake than so called horsepower.

In my experience, I have less frustration with other angler-boaters than I have with other-boaters in general. (Not that I've had many problems.) So if the shoreline can handle a few more waves, so be it.

The more the merrier. There will always be respectful people and rude punks out there. It's just the way it is. This subject/debate is a perfect example of that...


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Iraqvet said:


> No one is saying bass fisherman are evil..I am just saying I have dealt with more who had their heads you know where then say the muskie and pike guys..I am actually pretty real...As you stated,there are places you guys can go and be free to do whatever..Why take way from other people just because??


 Please explain what a guy with a bass boat would be taking away from you,or anybody else.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> Please explain what a guy with a bass boat would be taking away from you,or anybody else.


Well for starters I can name 3 instances (2 at mosquito 1 at westbranch) where some bass guys got mad cause I wouldnt let them launch before me..Their reasoning??..They "were more serious about fishing and deserved to go first cause,they even had a bass boat to prove it"..Their words,not mine..One even staged his rig so that I had to tell him to move so I could pull up from the ramp after I launched..I aint gonna count the number of times I was buzzed by bass guys who had to fly by so fast and close "just because"..And yes,bass boats do leave wakes..And of course,other expiriences with the pleasure boaters as well..


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

This will be my last thought regarding this topic,it's ran it's course with me.One major reason that Pymatuning is still a hp restriction lake is that it's not considered a quality bass lake by large bass fishing orginizations compared to other "tour" lakes.I have wrote into some of the large clubs and asked if anything could be done to lift the hp restrictions on this lake,so we could hold tournaments on it.Don't believe for a second that the DNR folks from PA,or Ohio would consider the voices of the few here,compared to the absolute millions of dollars that BASS,FLW or the NBAA have as backing.To put it in simpler terms,if Pymatuning was as good as a bass lake as Kentucky Lake,Champlain or Guntersville,do you think the DNR would give a rat's behind what a group of small boat owners had to say? Millions of dollars are pumped into the economy in the area of quality bass lakes through major tournaments every year.I'll leave it at that,whatever happens,happens.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Iraqvet said:


> Well for starters I can name 3 instances (2 at mosquito 1 at westbranch) where some bass guys got mad cause I wouldnt let them launch before me..Their reasoning??..They "were more serious about fishing and deserved to go first cause,they even had a bass boat to prove it"..Their words,not mine..One even staged his rig so that I had to tell him to move so I could pull up from the ramp after I launched..I aint gonna count the number of times I was buzzed by bass guys who had to fly by so fast and close "just because"..And yes,bass boats do leave wakes..And of course,other expiriences with the pleasure boaters as well..


 Man,you just had to make me go against what I just said regarding not responding to this post anymore.

My post is simple and quick.Any of you bass guys out there want to respond to the above posters statement-lol!


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

i find this laughable, the only reason i could imagine someone in another boat deliberately pulling in front of someone or suggesting that they go before you would be because you were getting your boat ready on the ramp. i have never, never heard anyone use the argument "look at my bass boat, im obviously more serious about it then you" as a reason to move ahead of someone on a ramp. i cant stop laughing at this. this sounds like the most ludicris thing i have ever heard. if this happened, it was a total isolated incident and forming an opinion about bass fisherman as a whole and deciding to back a law due to this incident is akin to someone assuming ford trucks suck cuz a buddy had one in 1985 that threw a rod through the block.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> This will be my last thought regarding this topic,it's ran it's course with me.One major reason that Pymatuning is still a hp restriction lake is that it's not considered a quality bass lake by large bass fishing orginizations compared to other "tour" lakes.I have wrote into some of the large clubs and asked if anything could be done to lift the hp restrictions on this lake,so we could hold tournaments on it.Don't believe for a second that the DNR folks from PA,or Ohio would consider the voices of the few here,compared to the absolute millions of dollars that BASS,FLW or the NBAA have as backing.To put it in simpler terms,if Pymatuning was as good as a bass lake as Kentucky Lake,Champlain or Guntersville,do you think the DNR would give a rat's behind what a group of small boat owners had to say? Millions of dollars are pumped into the economy in the area of quality bass lakes through major tournaments every year.I'll leave it at that,whatever happens,happens.


Your right,nothing stands out about it except it size and the ease of boating there..The fishing is average..I think your inflating what these competitions really bring in...There isnt really a whole lot to respond to in my last statement..There is no way a bass guy and take up for other bass guys actin like babies..


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

im sorry, im still laughing, cant stop it


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

one more thing, 10 seconds after a bass boat goes by on plane, you cant even tell we were there. minimal wake, about 6"of our boat is in the water at 65mph, not much there to cause a wake.


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## puterdude (Jan 27, 2006)

Come on guys,keep it civil,I know no one wants it closed.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

i also dont know anyone who drives past someone he didnt know "just because". aparently only people like you care about what kind of boat others have because i have never went by someone for any other reason then to get to where i was going. this world you live in sounds harsh! lol, still laughing about "im more serious then you, look at my bass boat" great stuff!


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

im the cause of most of this, i quit, sorry


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> i find this laughable, the only reason i could imagine someone in another boat deliberately pulling in front of someone or suggesting that they go before you would be because you were getting your boat ready on the ramp. i have never, never heard anyone use the argument "look at my bass boat, im obviously more serious about it then you" as a reason to move ahead of someone on a ramp. i cant stop laughing at this. this sounds like the most ludicris thing i have ever heard. if this happened, it was a total isolated incident and forming an opinion about bass fisherman as a whole and deciding to back a law due to this incident is akin to someone assuming ford trucks suck cuz a buddy had one in 1985 that threw a rod through the block.


My boat shows up ready..My 11 year old nephew or a friend will pull it around to the other side of the dick if available..Somthin you dont see many guys with bigger boats down..I am sure they dont wanna scratch there paint lol..It happend and probably will again..As you can see by the attitudes,it isnt a suprise for some lol..People should do alittle more lookin from the outside...


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> i also dont know anyone who drives past someone he didnt know "just because". aparently only people like you care about what kind of boat others have because i have never went by someone for any other reason then to get to where i was going. this world you live in sounds harsh! lol, still laughing about "im more serious then you, look at my bass boat" great stuff!


I dont care what the boat is..But it does seem to always be the same type...And going by someone to get where your goin is one thing, but there is no need to be close enough to spit on them..


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

All I can say is fishing better get better. By the sound of this to many people have cabin fever. This happens ever winter. Come on guys get a grip. What kind of examples are this for the kids on here?


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> I dont care what the boat is..But it does seem to always be the same type...And going by someone to get where your goin is one thing, but there is no need to be close enough to spit on them..


this is sort of funny to me, this has happened to me alot but ive noticed its never a bass boat but usually #1 a john boat, #2 cruiser, #3 pontoon #4 jet ski, in no particular order. maybe its a matter of only noticing the ones that annoy you based off things that happened on a ramp one time.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

viper1 said:


> All I can say is fishing better get better. By the sound of this to many people have cabin fever. This happens ever winter. Come on guys get a grip. What kind of examples are this for the kids on here?


I shoot on a pretty regular schedule so I dont think thats it for me..I think some of us just get tried of the attitude of some along with the fact the there is a group of people who cant be happy with what they got..Seems people wont be satisfied til they got it all..Not very sportsmen like...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

viper1 said:


> All I can say is fishing better get better. By the sound of this to many people have cabin fever. This happens ever winter. Come on guys get a grip. What kind of examples are this for the kids on here?


cabin fever for real, headin to lake toho florida in 3 weeks. cant wait to slam into a 10lber


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> I shoot on a pretty regular schedule so I dont think thats it for me..I think some of us just get tried of the attitude of some along with the fact the there is a group of people who cant be happy with what they got..Seems people wont be satisfied til they got it all..Not very sportsmen like...


yes, what a terrible attitude to have, to want equality for everyone, no matter how expensive your fishing boat is or how inexpensive your boat is.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> this is sort of funny to me, this has happened to me alot but ive noticed its never a bass boat but usually #1 a john boat, #2 cruiser, #3 pontoon #4 jet ski, in no particular order. maybe its a matter of only noticing the ones that annoy you based off things that happened on a ramp one time.


Well...2 of the 4 must have been on unlimted lakes..The pontoon could go either way so maybe 3 of the 4,but I will bet you will say it had a 9.9 on it..I wont base it on the one incident..Alot of Iraqi's would hit my convoys with roadside bombs,but I dont hate all of them...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> Well...2 of the 4 must have been on unlimted lakes..The pontoon could go either way so maybe 3 of the 4,but I will bet you will say it had a 9.9 on it..I wont base it on the one incident..Alot of Iraqi's would hit my convoys with roadside bombs,but I dont hate all of them...


yep, your right but had there been a speed limit or a no wake policy, prob wouldnt have had any of them except of course the 9.9


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Sad fact is people dont have no one to blame for it but themselves...Everyone made their purchase choices...The rules were set and we are each left to our own decisions..And like others,I think there is more to it then they think...Bodies of water can be very fragile as well..Maybe their is some science behind their decisions..


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> Sad fact is people dont have no one to blame for it but themselves...Everyone made their purchase choices...The rules were set and we are each left to our own decisions....


yeah, i guess your right. i prob should of thought before i purchased my boat. 

i will weigh the options now

lakes i like to fish, that is compatible with my boat in my area. 
griggs, oshey, alum creek, deercreek, indian, buckeye, dillon, burr oak, muskingum river, rupert, ceasar creek, ohio river, rocky fork, paint creek, salt fork. off the top of my head

lakes that have a hp limit that i would like to fish
hoover.

guess i made my bed, should have put more thought into it.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> yeah, i guess your right. i prob should of thought before i purchased my boat.
> 
> i will weigh the options now
> 
> ...


There ya go..Plenty to do...If your bed is so nice and comfy,I dont understand your need to sit here and complain about limited lakes..It went from a discussion to you and a couple others throwin insults..I have never been to the lakes you mentioned,and probably never will...I have a good amount within 1 1/2 hours of my house..If you feel you need a 40k boat with 6k worth of electronics on it to find fish and navigate a lake,hey more power to you..I guess I am oldschool then cause I will probably never have the urge to get any of that..I just dont understand why you and a few others on here state you have it made with so many options, yet still say its not good enough...


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

So much of the original intent of this post is getting lost.I'll agree with you IV,a great boat does not make a great fisherman,and just because you own a $50,000 bass boat you still have to wait your turn in line at the ramp even if there's 5 jet skis,and 3 jon boats ahead of you,not only common sense,but common courtesy as well.If there's really guys with bass boats at West Branch that act like you say they do,then I'm certainly glad I don't fish that lake.On an unrelated topic to this post,you really should check into what kind of dollars major bass tournaments do bring into the economy for certain areas.If you only knew how many major,major tournaments there are on just Kentucky lake for example,you may be surprised.
As far as the added pressure side of this debate,I fish Lake Erie,St.Clair,and the Detroit River 95% of the time,if Charles Mill were to be opened up to large motors,I wouldn't fish it any more than I already do,as I'm sure nearly every guy in the area would feel the same.I fish Knox Lake about the same amount of time as I did before it was opened up.In both cases,it really doesn't matter much to me either way.I just feel that Ohio should be the same as Michigan,and other states.Michigan has thousands of lakes,every lake up there from 300 acres to 30,000 acres have no ridiculous hp restrictions,hell most don't even have a posted speed limit.They understand that fishermen regardless of what boat they have are mostly big boys,and they can police themselves.I really don't know if you just don't like bass fishermen,or tournament anglers,or maybe you're just unaware of what contributions we make for not only our favorite fish,but for fishing as a whole.Myself alone,I am a member of BASS,FLW,NBAA and the ABA,that's just one guy,do you know how much of that money goes right back into our natural resources,in addition to our Ohio fishing license's? We regularly host youth fishing tournaments,clean up lakes and parking lots,and so on.That's one major reason why some of us feel that we're paying more than our fair share to the upkeep of Ohio's lakes,and we feel we should be able to use our boats on any public lake in the state,the same as the guys with the smaller boats feel like they should be allowed to fish on whatever lake they want to.I'm sorry,but it does appear to me that a lot of the guys that fish the hp restricted lakes do have an attitude about guys with expensive bass boats.It doesn't matter if the lake in question is Charles Mill,Pymy,or Hoover,bring up bass fishermen being able to hold tournaments on their favorite lake,and the war will wage on.My best friend,and tournament partner has a 16' Tracker/w a 10hp,and we fish out of it quite a bit ealry in the year before tournament season get's going.There's always a lot of bass boats wherever we fish,and we've never encountered one problem on the lake or at the ramps.Lastly,here's the way I am,as I'm sure most bass fishermen are as well.IV,if you and I were both in the prep area getting our boats ready for the day's fishing,and I finished ahead of you,chances are I would still ask you if you wanted to launch ahead of me.I realize in your boat all you need to do once you've backed into the water is just drive it off the trailer and tie off on the dock.It takes me a little while longer,for one,I always motor over to the courtesy dock to tie off,then I have to walk from there to get my truck and park it,than walk back to the boat,in that time you could already be far from the ramp.I do this all of the time,unless I'm in a tournament,hopefully most other guys do too.Common sense,common courtesy,and let everybody enjoy all the lakes with the boat of their choice.


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## fished-out (Dec 20, 2005)

Gosh, the tone of this thread has sure changed since the last time I took a look. Lots of strong emotions. I'm sympathetic to both sides, although I believe that unlimited horsepower with speed restrictions may make sense on SOME lakes. To put this view in context, I have a large boat, but started with a 9.9. In fact, I had a 9.9 (or smaller-started with a 6) for 20 years or so, then moved to a 60, a 90, and then my current 225 over the last 15 years. I've been on most of the lakes mentioned at least once--LaDue, Moggy, Atwood, Piedmont, Pleasant Hill, Hoover, Alum, Buckeye, Indian--on and on right into SW Ohio where I live now. Some are electric, some limited, some unlimited--all very nice lakes in their own right. I've seen all the antics mentioned, as most of us have--inconsiderate boaters who come too close to fishermen, bust no wake zones, fish too close to me, tie up the ramps and docks, etc. And I've seen more of it in the last few years than in the prior 30 years.

However, none of this behavior seems to be related to horsepower. I've seen 9.9's, sailboats, 250's, etc, all behave badly. For example, I've spent one weekend in June on Cowan (limited horsepower lake) every year for the past 5 years helping with a charity event during which I'm allowed to idle disabled people around the lake to fish. It's amazing how many smaller boats blow by me within 30-40' and the number of dirty looks I get, even though the boat is clearly marked for the event and it's usually clear that I'm transporting disabled folks. And last year, had a small 25' sailboat run into me on Indian when I was 20' off shore using my electric motor to fish a bank in a no-wake zone (had my back to the lake--never even saw him coming). It was just a bump, but I have no idea what he was trying to do. I've seen 9.9's bust no-wake zones at least as often as bigger motors; in fact, it's hard to tell, but the middle picture in one of the earlier posts looks like it may be a smaller boat with a tiller motor, but who knows?

I also don't believe a bigger motor at idle speed disturbs the tranquility of a lake any more than a smaller motor--I believe ALL motors disturb that tranquility.

So, based on what I've read and personally experienced, here are my thoughts:

Electric only lakes should remain that way. I'd rather not see the noise and bustle invade lakes like Mogodore, LaDue, etc.

Gasoline lakes should be opened up to unlimited horsepower; however, motors over a certain size should be no-wake on the current 10HP and under lakes--period. I say this because my boat (19' lund) would throw a large wake at any speed under 15 mph. Would I prefer to go faster? Sure, but I see the other side.

Lakes with higher hp limits (Atwood comes to mind--don't know what it is now, but I think it used to be 25HP) should have speed limits. Alot of boats on that lake used to be underpowered for the boat size and threw a heck of a wake anyway.

As to ramps, docks, etc., and the cost of expanding facilities--those things tend to take care of themselves. The state has to balance its budget each year. The Corp of Engineers also plays a role. They'll expand if and only if they have the money, and allocations from general funds have not been increasing--they tend to go the other way in these uncertain economic times. I doubt much would be done for a very long time, and people will either use the facilities as they are or go elsewhere.

All that being said, I doubt any great changes will take place any time soon. Most likely, they'll change a few more lakes to unlimited HP/No-wake/speed limit, see how it goes, do a few more, etc. Look how long it took DNR to put size limits on crappie--and there are some people who still don't want those kinds of rules, and folks who insisted prior to the change that people wouldn't follow the rules. But I think most people DO follow the rules. And I wouldn't suggest that we allow a few people who don't follow rules/laws to dictate our course of action. Change will happen slowly--but it will happen. Always does.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Well said.


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## flounder (May 15, 2004)

I was going to leave this one alone but now I will add my 2.5 cents here.

I know this has been beat to death over the years. I fish Hoover regularly and remember Hoover is not controlled by ODNR. They assist with enforcement and do provide some very limited funding, but Hoover is first and foremost a water supply lake controlled by the City of Columbus. We are lucky to even have access to it. It could turn into a case like Meander in NE Ohio that we do not have access to. I know for a fact that has been discussed behind closed doors within the city, I don't think it would come to that, but it is possible. 

My overall point is that in addition to a 10 HP limit there is also a 10 MPH speed limit. I see 9.9 HP carbed at 15 HP doing more like 20 MPH up on plane with two guys and gear, Ranger's boat is on the water, and they don't get stopped. The speed limit is not enforced per the regulations. My boat does 8 MPH GPS and I get passed sometimes like I'm standing still.

921.01-4 - Vessel and operations in Hoover Reservoir.

(A)
Unless otherwise authorized by this chapter, no person shall operate in Hoover Reservoir any vessel of:

(1)
Less than eight (8) feet or more than twenty-two (22) feet except sailboats which may be up to twenty-five (25) feet in length.

(2)
Less than thirty-six (36) inches in beam or;

(3)
Less than fifty (50) pounds in weight or;

(4)
More than ten (10) horsepower or restricted thereto.

(B)
Exceptions:

(1)
Canoes, kayaks, rowing shells, pedal boats and inflatable watercraft bearing a Hull Identification Number (HIN) and recognized by the United States Coast Guard as vessels and watercraft are permitted and specifically exempted from the length, beam and weight requirements. 

(2)
Board type sailboats without rigidly affixed masts; commonly referred to as "sailboards" are specifically exempted from the length, beam and weight requirements and their hours of use shall be restricted to those hours from sunrise to sunset. 

(C)
The waterway north of the no boat buoys at the dam shall be open to boating at all times except for areas specifically exempted. Boating will not be permitted within one hundred (100) feet of the down-river side of the dam. 

(D)
No person shall operate a motorized vessel at a speed greater than ten (10) miles per hour.
(E)
Before launching a vessel with a motor in excess of ten (10) horsepower, the motor will be tilted and must remain tilted while on the waterway. 

(1)
Motors in excess of ten (10) horsepower may remain in a non-tilt position provided their prop is removed prior to launch and remain so while on the waterway. 

(F)
No water skiing will be permitted.

(G)
No person shall operate any motorized vessel at a speed exceeding idle speed within a distance of one hundred (100) feet of the shorelines. 


The city and state budget is not there to provide the 24/7 enforcement that would be required.

I can't go along with changing HP limitations. And I also tourney fish in big boats with friends at times. In the case of Hoover there are 5 Ramps around the lake that provide access to different sections. I have fished it with my neighbor in his 20 foot boat on trolling motor and done well.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

flounder said:


> The city and state budget is not there to provide the 24/7 enforcement that would be required.


i dont understand why this is always a sticking point with guys. there are currently plenty of lakes that dont get 24/7 enforcement and issues are minimal. heck, even lakes that do have enforcement, laws get broken. its not like odnr is going to prevent every little thing from happening. most people follow the laws and some dont. it happens everywhere, all the time, in every walk of life. hoover or any other lake would be no different then lakes that currently get a rotation of odnr.

in fact, it might actually free up some money because currently, from what i hear" there already is an odnr officer at hoover most of the time, for only one reason, to keep guys with big horsepower from idling around hoover. if they changed the law, and made this legal, then they could spend more time at lakes with actual problems like alum.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> If you feel you need a 40k boat with 6k worth of electronics on it to find fish and navigate a lake,hey more power to you..I guess I am oldschool then cause I will probably never have the urge to get any of that..I just dont understand why you and a few others on here state you have it made with so many options, yet still say its not good enough...


first off, the cost of my boat is none of your concern, how often have i brought up the cost of your boat? i dont care how much your boat costs, or how much electronics you have. i would stick up for you and say you have a right to fish any lake you want and not say your boat is to cheap to fish a certain lake.

they only people seemingly concerned with boat costs are people like you. there are plenty of older bass boats with 200,225,250 motors that are inexpensive due to age and they too deserve to fish any lake they want.


secondly, the reason you feel you dont need all that power or those electronics is because you dont competively fish. which i dont care one way or another if you dont but dont act like i have the boat i have because of an ego thing. ITS THE TOOL I CHOSE. if your a certified auto mechanic, you buy mac tools. not because they cost 4 times more then other tools, but because they work better. if youre a cop, your prob not rolling around with a hi-point side arm. if your a doctor, im sure your not going to do surgery with an exacto-knife from wal-mart. etc. etc.

stop hating on people just because the CHOOSE to have a nice boat.


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## flounder (May 15, 2004)

lordofthepunks said:


> i dont understand why this is always a sticking point with guys. there are currently plenty of lakes that dont get 24/7 enforcement and issues are minimal. heck, even lakes that do have enforcement, laws get broken. its not like odnr is going to prevent every little thing from happening. most people follow the laws and some dont. it happens everywhere, all the time, in every walk of life. hoover or any other lake would be no different then lakes that currently get a rotation of odnr.
> 
> in fact, it might actually free up some money because currently, from what i hear" there already is an odnr officer at hoover most of the time, for only one reason, to keep guys with big horsepower from idling around hoover. if they changed the law, and made this legal, then they could spend more time at lakes with actual problems like alum.


The majority of the watercraft enforcement that I see at Hoover is the City. Yes, ODNR is there at times, but has nowhere near the visibility that the City does. I have seen jet skis kicked off but I also saw a guy in high HP bass boat screaming down the lake at 50 - 60 (just once and I don't know if he got caught or not, I was driving across a bridge when I saw him). 

My point is that if the potential (ie having a big motor on the lake) is there more abuse will occur and the City could choose to cut off all access to Hoover. That is something we don't want to lose. I know the City will not allow higher HPs to begin with.

As far overall HP restrictions on lakes I will leave it in the hands of ODNR and the other controlling entities (Columbus, Muskingum Watershed and Army Corp, etc) to decide what is best for each lake on a case by case basis.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

HOLY MACKERAL ANDY!!!!!!! Who sandpapered who's hindends? After all of this, they will ban me from ever posting a thread on here again. Mercy!! Harbor Hunter, I totally agree with your post and they are very well stated. Wish all would follow your lead. IraqVet, not trying to pick on you but, in my 40 or so years of fishing public lakes, I haven't had anywhere near the bad experiences you have had. After reading some of your post, I have to wonder if some of your problems on the lake might be your attitude towards others. Also, in regards to your statements about Pymatuning. You stated Penn. has greater authority than Ohio. If you look this up, you will find out they have exactly the same authority under the decrees set forth when the lake was built. Also, in reference to raising the horsepower on Pymatuning,you stated "they had to fight tooth and nail for years to get it bumped up". The fact is any regulations pertaining to Pymatuning has to be agreed upon by both States. With that said, Penn. waited on Ohio 4 years to agree to raising the horsepower to 20hp. Gov. Strickland signed this into law a few years ago. At one time Penn. wanted to raise the horsepower higher than what they settled on but Ohio didn't want to at that time. Flounder, I definitely don't want to start an argument with you over Hoover but if you will research it, you will find ODNR has full authority on any and all waters in the State of Ohio. The city may own the land but, ODNR controls the regulations of the water. Again, that is not hearsay, that is recorded fact. Please everyone, try to keep this civil and do yourself and others a favor. Don't take my word or any others on this matter. Look it up yourself. Then state your opinions, based on fact. The bottom line is, Ohio is very antiquated (by their own admission) in the way they regulate our lakes. Time for a little upgrading. I know we can make this work if we will work together and not bicker.


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## norseangler (Jan 8, 2009)

I've been reading this thread with great interest, but have so far refrained from comment. I have a 19-foot bass boat with a 150, but I still fish limited horsepower lakes, including Charles Mill, Knox, Rush Creek, Piedmont, Clendening, Leesville, Burr Oak, Wolf Run and Wills Creek. To do this, I had an auxiliary bracket installed so I could mount a 9.9 for those lakes that don't have unlimited/no wake rules. However, I'm closer to 60 than 50 and lugging that 9.9 around gets less appealing all the time. Having the unlimited/no wake rules like Knox, Burr Oak and Clear Fork is an ideal situation. I can fish in the comfort of my bass boat and not have to deal with water skiers, jet skis, etc. My experience on Knox, Burr Oak and Clear Fork is that adding bass boats with large motor to the mix cause no problems. Sure, I sometimes see such a boat putting up what I would consider too much of a wake, but they're not as bad as what I encounter from V-hulls with 9.9s or even the pontoon boats. There are discourteous boaters everywhere, unfortunately. (That's one of the reasons I dislike Alum Creek; it has more than its share). And people who don't follow basic ramp courtesy aren't always owners of big boats. Officials at Burr Oak say violations of the unlimited/no wake rules are almost nonexistent; the same is true at Knox, as far as I've heard. I would love to not have to use the 9.9 at Charles Mill, even though I can go faster with it than with the 150 at idle speed (the 9.9 also causes more of a wake). I suspect that the biggest opponents to changing Charles Mill are the pontoon boat owners that fill the marina docks and seem to think it is their private lake.
In the past, MWCD has not embraced the unlimited HP/no wake idea, but the decision actually rests with the Division of Watercraft. However, they take the position of the MWCD into strong consideration and I'm sure won't make a change without MWCD support. Also, someone suggested that people who live near the lakes, or maybe rent docks, should have more of a say in changes. If you live in the Muskingum River watershed, you now pay a yearly assessment to support the MWCD in its mission to control flooding in the watershed. Does that mean everybody in the watershed should vote on how the lakes are run?
One other thing: To those who think a 9.9 lake doesn't have tournaments. Where have you been living? Piedmont, Clendening, Burr Oak, Hoover, etc., are full of tournaments, both on weekends and with pot tournaments one or more nights a week.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

norseangler said:


> I've been reading this thread with great interest, but have so far refrained from comment. I have a 19-foot bass boat with a 150, but I still fish limited horsepower lakes, including Charles Mill, Knox, Rush Creek, Piedmont, Clendening, Leesville, Burr Oak, Wolf Run and Wills Creek. To do this, I had an auxiliary bracket installed so I could mount a 9.9 for those lakes that don't have unlimited/no wake rules. However, I'm closer to 60 than 50 and lugging that 9.9 around gets less appealing all the time. Having the unlimited/no wake rules like Knox, Burr Oak and Clear Fork is an ideal situation. I can fish in the comfort of my bass boat and not have to deal with water skiers, jet skis, etc. My experience on Knox, Burr Oak and Clear Fork is that adding bass boats with large motor to the mix cause no problems. Sure, I sometimes see such a boat putting up what I would consider too much of a wake, but they're not as bad as what I encounter from V-hulls with 9.9s or even the pontoon boats. There are discourteous boaters everywhere, unfortunately. (That's one of the reasons I dislike Alum Creek; it has more than its share). And people who don't follow basic ramp courtesy aren't always owners of big boats. Officials at Burr Oak say violations of the unlimited/no wake rules are almost nonexistent; the same is true at Knox, as far as I've heard. I would love to not have to use the 9.9 at Charles Mill, even though I can go faster with it than with the 150 at idle speed (the 9.9 also causes more of a wake). I suspect that the biggest opponents to changing Charles Mill are the pontoon boat owners that fill the marina docks and seem to think it is their private lake.
> In the past, MWCD has not embraced the unlimited HP/no wake idea, but the decision actually rests with the Division of Watercraft. However, they take the position of the MWCD into strong consideration and I'm sure won't make a change without MWCD support. Also, someone suggested that people who live near the lakes, or maybe rent docks, should have more of a say in changes. If you live in the Muskingum River watershed, you now pay a yearly assessment to support the MWCD in its mission to control flooding in the watershed. Does that mean everybody in the watershed should vote on how the lakes are run?
> One other thing: To those who think a 9.9 lake doesn't have tournaments. Where have you been living? Piedmont, Clendening, Burr Oak, Hoover, etc., are full of tournaments, both on weekends and with pot tournaments one or more nights a week.


this man has TACT. something i clearly do not posess. well said


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Steeg, the two states share power as far as arrests for violators and such..But PA owns the islands and controls the damn..They have some other things they control as well that OH does not..The water level is at PA's disscresion...There are solutions to our problems..But sadly people will still cause problems within the solutions...One solution is to tell people to buy smaller boats and motors..The other is to allow guys with bigger boats and motors onto these lakes,and hope they play by the rules...I still would not mind them bumpin things up to 50hp at pymie...I think unlimited would be bad cause you would be inviting the jet skiers and pleasure boaters out as well...God knows how that would work out..Its to big to patrol without multiple boats..Depending on the website,its listed from 14-17,000 water acres..Even with all that room,I think accident rates would be raised..People cant seem to use all that extra room to go around..Maybe they dont wanna stray from that line on their gps screen or somthin..I dont know..


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> Steeg, I still would not mind them bumpin things up to 50hp at pymie...I think unlimited would be bad cause you would be inviting the jet skiers and pleasure boaters out as well.....


i cant imagine a guy taking a jet ski to a lake with a 10mph speed limit and or no wake.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Steeg said:


> HOLY MACKERAL ANDY!!!!!!! Who sandpapered who's hindends? After all of this, they will ban me from ever posting a thread on here again. Mercy!! Harbor Hunter, I totally agree with your post and they are very well stated. Wish all would follow your lead. IraqVet, not trying to pick on you but, in my 40 or so years of fishing public lakes, I haven't had anywhere near the bad experiences you have had. After reading some of your post, I have to wonder if some of your problems on the lake might be your attitude towards others. Also, in regards to your statements about Pymatuning. You stated Penn. has greater authority than Ohio. If you look this up, you will find out they have exactly the same authority under the decrees set forth when the lake was built. Also, in reference to raising the horsepower on Pymatuning,you stated "they had to fight tooth and nail for years to get it bumped up". The fact is any regulations pertaining to Pymatuning has to be agreed upon by both States. With that said, Penn. waited on Ohio 4 years to agree to raising the horsepower to 20hp. Gov. Strickland signed this into law a few years ago. At one time Penn. wanted to raise the horsepower higher than what they settled on but Ohio didn't want to at that time. Flounder, I definitely don't want to start an argument with you over Hoover but if you will research it, you will find ODNR has full authority on any and all waters in the State of Ohio. The city may own the land but, ODNR controls the regulations of the water. Again, that is not hearsay, that is recorded fact. Please everyone, try to keep this civil and do yourself and others a favor. Don't take my word or any others on this matter. Look it up yourself. Then state your opinions, based on fact. The bottom line is, Ohio is very antiquated (by their own admission) in the way they regulate our lakes. Time for a little upgrading. I know we can make this work if we will work together and not bicker.


 I have made this exact statement about Hoover many times,but it always falls on deaf ears.I worked for the ODNR back in the 70's,and I still have many friends that work there now.I know that the city of Columbus owns the land around Hoover,but they do not own the lake itself,it is totally controlled by the DNR,if and when the DNR ever decided to open it up to larger motors,the city of Columbus would not be able to do nothing about it period.Comparing Hoover to Meander Res. in NE Ohio is not a good comparison,Meander is owned by the United States government,not by any city,or the state.I'll never understand the debates about this,what's wrong with a bass boat on any lake going at idle speed,please somebody give me a logical reason why this would be a problem.Nobody can offer up any legitimate reason,because there isn't one.The sad reality is,and I do hate to say this,really,but I think it truly is nothing more than a jealousy issue.It has to be,The logic behind guys speeding is just silly,it wouldn't happen any more than it does now with the guys that are supposed to be using 9.9's,instead of 15's.Soil erosion? That's even more of an inane comment,a 9.9 creates far more of a wake than a bass boat at idle speed does.Overcrowding of the lake/parking lot,again a very shallow reason,like I said,Knox Lake is considered the best inland bass lake in Ohio,there is never any huge throngs of people in either parking lot,or on the water.There will be untold numbers of tournaments if they open up the lake to big motors,there's already tons of tournaments on nearly every lake in Ohio now,it wouldn't change a thing.Face it,the real truth is these guys in their smaller boats with the 9.9's,along with pontoon owners just want to keep their lakes for themselves.In addition,I feel they really don't have a lot of love for bass anglers,especially tournament bass anglers.Can it be anything else? Not one of them has offered even one valid reason why Charles Mill shouldn't be open to all boats,with an idle speed/no-wake limit.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> i cant imagine a guy taking a jet ski to a lake with a 10mph speed limit and or no wake.


Who said the whole lake would be no wake??.Pymie is bigger then where you fish..It would take HOURS to get from one end to the othe in no wake conditions..But hey,if you guys wanna fish it so bad the whole lake would be no wake,see how long you and your high hp boats are welcomed by the regulars there lol.And from 3 miles away,can you HONESTLY tell who is doing 10mph,or 25mph???


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

HH there is no jealousy..Thats exactly what someone on a high horse would say..Thats probably the problem most guys have with the bass guys..I know I dont want to idle everywhere just so ou guys can fish to..There is a system in place that you and some others dont wanna follow it...Who's fault is that??..Some of us are more rugged,and dont feel the need to act spoiled by gettin a bass boat lol..It sounds like you guys with the high hp boats are jealous cause you cant go where we can for the most part..Point made,you guys are the ones complaining..Mine goes anywhere,cause I put thought into what I needed,not what I wanted,and this reflects that...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

jesus, your all over the place. so its ok to have a 50hp, but not a 150hp on a 17,000 acre lake? its ok to run 35mph in a john boat with a 50hp but not ok for a bass boat to run 35mph with a 250hp. 

i propose we fix this problem like the iraqvet has suggested, everyone must get a new boat! and lets go communsism on em' everybody gets a new boat but it HAS TO BE 10hp. so that the dictator iraqvet can limit everyone to what he has! DONE


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> HH there is no jealousy..Thats exactly what someone on a high horse would say..Thats probably the problem most guys have with the bass guys..I know I dont want to idle everywhere just so ou guys can fish to..There is a system in place that you and some others dont wanna follow it...Who's fault is that??..Some of us are more rugged,and dont feel the need to act spoiled by gettin a bass boat lol..It sounds like you guys with the high hp boats are jealous cause you cant go where we can for the most part..Point made,you guys are the ones complaining..Mine goes anywhere,cause I put thought into what I needed,not what I wanted,and this reflects that...


wow! so your sayin, givin the option, no strings attached, you would choose the boat you are touting as a rugged go anywhere boat over a 60k bass rig?

act spoiled? cuz we can afford to buy a nice boat? cuz if you dont have a steering wheel you cant compete in major bass tournaments. thats being spoiled. get a freakin grip dude. 

if i were jealous i would just go an atm and download the 1000 or so to buy a freakin john boat.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

its great, you dont want to have to idle just so we can fish. well guess what, we dont want to have to idle just so your boat doesnt get tipped over. your ideas and your rules only help YOU. im glad the entire country isnt as narrow minded as yourself


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## puterdude (Jan 27, 2006)

Ok guys ,we are nearing the road to no return.Let's cut the insults please!


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> jesus, your all over the place. so its ok to have a 50hp, but not a 150hp on a 17,000 acre lake? its ok to run 35mph in a john boat with a 50hp but not ok for a bass boat to run 35mph with a 250hp.
> 
> i propose we fix this problem like the iraqvet has suggested, everyone must get a new boat! and lets go communsism on em' everybody gets a new boat but it HAS TO BE 10hp. so that the dictator iraqvet can limit everyone to what he has! DONE


You may not see it,but this is typical bass boat owner mentality..I dont know of many of the smaller john boats that will take a 50hp without sinkin..If you go back you will also see I said there should be a speed limit of 15mph..And pymie has a 20hp limit so you could use that too...Dictator Iraqvet sounds good!!..HH,I would like to share with a you story about jealousy,which I am sure you wanna tie to money...When I took my CCW course a while back,there was a student who showed up with 12 BRAND NEW guns...He was a lawyer,and he had good money..Well,he didnt know how to shoot,cause he never shot before..And common sense,would not have been his middle name..He got 2 safety violations on the range,and would have been gone after a 3rd..Took him 16 tries to put 15 bullets in a 9 inch paper plat from 6 yards.I wasnt jealous,even though I dont have 12 new guns..I know how to use what I have,and he could even load his mags right,let alone the guns...Point is,it dosnt matter what you have as long as your happy..In a case like this discussion,your jealousy issue is pretty mute and far fetched...I do urge you to do something though..Please if you ever attend a meeting about this,I want you to stand up and yell ,"their all just jealous" in as much of a little kid voice as you can muster...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

sorry puterdude, im still laughing at the "rugged" coment. hes right, i cant argue. im as pretty as they come. a younger mathew mconeghey some might say. my hands are as soft as a babies bottom (despite the scars i have from lucky craft treble hooks). my wife loves my sensitive side and despite all this, i still cant figure out how its more comfortable STANDING outside on a bass boat for 8 to 12 hours at a time in the rain and snow and wind then..... SITTING in a john boat for as long as weather permits assuming the wind isnt to bad to be out in a john boat.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> wow! so your sayin, givin the option, no strings attached, you would choose the boat you are touting as a rugged go anywhere boat over a 60k bass rig?
> 
> act spoiled? cuz we can afford to buy a nice boat? cuz if you dont have a steering wheel you cant compete in major bass tournaments. thats being spoiled. get a freakin grip dude.
> 
> if i were jealous i would just go an atm and download the 1000 or so to buy a freakin john boat.



I have no urge to compete..I fish for fun..And yeah,I would turn down the bass boat...I would rather spend that kind of money on stock car racing..I can afford a nice basser,but I wouldnt buy it...They just dont appeal to me and mine gets the job done..Again,another reffernce to "affording" a basser..Many people can,and many people chose another route...




lordofthepunks said:


> its great, you dont want to have to idle just so we can fish. well guess what, we dont want to have to idle just so your boat doesnt get tipped over. your ideas and your rules only help YOU. im glad the entire country isnt as narrow minded as yourself


So safe boating operations is not on your agenda..Your saying you guys do that to us in our little 9.9s out of spite..And you wonder why people oppose your group coming onto yet another lake to act like that..?..hhmmm


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> sorry puterdude, im still laughing at the "rugged" coment. hes right, i cant argue. im as pretty as they come. a younger mathew mconeghey some might say. my hands are as soft as a babies bottom (despite the scars i have from lucky craft treble hooks). my wife loves my sensitive side and despite all this, i still cant figure out how its more comfortable STANDING outside on a bass boat for 12 hours at a time in the rain and snow and wind then..... SITTING in a john boat for as long as weather permits assuming the wind isnt to bad to be out in a john boat.


Just so you know,I dont like sitting in john boats either..Thats why I have a deep v


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Irqvet,you still don't get what I'm saying.I believe the law should be on a lake such as Charles Mill is no hp restrictions for any boat,for any motor over 10hp,there should be a no wake limit.How does this restrict you from anything? Oh,I do happen to own a 16' jon boat with a 7.5hp on it,I use it for duck hunting,I couldn't imagine fishing from it though.As someone else pointed out,I like the vast amounts of storage I have on my bass boat,the safety features it has,my Ranger can't sink,I also like having the powerful motor in case I happen to be fishing some where far from the ramp and a dangerous storm comes along.As far as having thousands of dollars in electronics on board,yes,I like that too.I have two HDS-10's and two HDS-5's on mine,does it help me find and catch fish-uh yeah.There's absolutely no reason why a guy couldn't install a $2500.00 HDS-10 on a smaller aluminum boat is there? So why do you think these expensive toys are only for guys with bass boats? You can rig out any boat with high-tech gear if you want.For me bass fishing is not just a hobby,or a meat gathering thing,I spend serious cash on tournaments,and I make my fair share also.Like any team sport(sometimes)there's a lot of camaraderie,I've made great friends through my travels to lakes all across the country.My boat is an investment,and it must be worth it,the boat is only one year old,and it's already been paid off through tournament winnings.If I wasn't involved in tournaments from March through October,I probably wouldn't own a rig like the one I do.Before I got into the tournament life style,I owned a 16' Starcraft with a 25hp on it,I loved that boat every bit as much as my new boat.I do have to admit though,whenever I was tooling around on a lake I was jealous of the guys in their bass boats too.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> I have no urge to compete..I fish for fun..And yeah,I would turn down the bass boat...I would rather spend that kind of money on stock car racing..I can afford a nice basser,but I wouldnt buy it...They just dont appeal to me and mine gets the job done..Again,another reffernce to "affording" a basser..Many people can,and many people chose another route...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i did say "no strings attached", meaning money was not an issue. free, nada, nothing. you get to choose, no maintenance costs, no payments, etc.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

I agree with the Mod,nobody is going to reach common ground on this topic,I can't express my feelings without coming across as sarcastic,so I'm moving on.Let's just see what happens with the people in charge regarding the laws.Whether they pass it or not,I will still run my boat in a respectful manner towards other boaters,and hope they do the same with me.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> .I do have to admit though,whenever I was tooling around on a lake I was jealous of the guys in their bass boats too.


yep, had that feeling too when i was a kid. never wanted anything more then a ranger bassboat from the time i was 8 years old. worked my a** of for years before i was able to buy my first ranger bass boat when i was 25 years old. now i have a skeeter and its ultra annoying to me to have someone minimize my investments in fishing to "its your fault you bought a nice boat".

how would iraqvet feel if someone said how dumb it would be to spend a bunch of money on a racecar. "i choose to spend my money on other stuff, not waste it on a car you cant drive on the road". i cant handle this anymore but evertime i say im done i get goaded into returning. im gonna try again


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## flounder (May 15, 2004)

Harbor Hunter said:


> I have made this exact statement about Hoover many times,but it always falls on deaf ears.I worked for the ODNR back in the 70's,and I still have many friends that work there now.I know that the city of Columbus owns the land around Hoover,but they do not own the lake itself,it is totally controlled by the DNR,if and when the DNR ever decided to open it up to larger motors,the city of Columbus would not be able to do nothing about it period.Comparing Hoover to Meander Res. in NE Ohio is not a good comparison,Meander is owned by the United States government,not by any city,or the state.I'll never understand the debates about this,what's wrong with a bass boat on any lake going at idle speed,please somebody give me a logical reason why this would be a problem.Nobody can offer up any legitimate reason,because there isn't one.The sad reality is,and I do hate to say this,really,but I think it truly is nothing more than a jealousy issue.It has to be,The logic behind guys speeding is just silly,it wouldn't happen any more than it does now with the guys that are supposed to be using 9.9's,instead of 15's.Soil erosion? That's even more of an inane comment,a 9.9 creates far more of a wake than a bass boat at idle speed does.Overcrowding of the lake/parking lot,again a very shallow reason,like I said,Knox Lake is considered the best inland bass lake in Ohio,there is never any huge throngs of people in either parking lot,or on the water.There will be untold numbers of tournaments if they open up the lake to big motors,there's already tons of tournaments on nearly every lake in Ohio now,it wouldn't change a thing.Face it,the real truth is these guys in their smaller boats with the 9.9's,along with pontoon owners just want to keep their lakes for themselves.In addition,I feel they really don't have a lot of love for bass anglers,especially tournament bass anglers.Can it be anything else? Not one of them has offered even one valid reason why Charles Mill shouldn't be open to all boats,with an idle speed/no-wake limit.


Harbor Hunter, I must correct your statement that ODNR controls Hoover. It does not. It is a city of Columbus controlled body of water as is Oshaun' and Griggs. The primary use of Hoover, Griggs and Oshaun' is for drinking water supply. The City of Columbus enforces watercraft rules with the assistance of ODNR, Columbus having the majority of the presence at Hoover. ODNR does provide wildlife enforcement, stocking etc. 

One the issues, at least on Hoover, that has reared it's head in the last few years has been the tightening of the USEPA drinking water quality regs. The lowering of allowed contaminates has affected all supplies in the country. 

One of the effects of any boating activity, be it 10 hp or 250 hp is suspened solids. Boats stir up more solids and they suspend in the water. Columbus is already under the gun to spend even more money for treatment to the new standards. It would not suprise me if they limited boating on Hoover even more than it is now. I hope they don't. 

I really don't have any issues opening up more water to larger motors. I really believe this issue is less black and white than we all think it is. If a controlling body studies the issue and finds that increased boat traffic and larger motors have no effect on water quality then I am good with that decision. ODNR now can, if they haven't already, collect data from the lakes where they have changed the rules and study it to see if there are any short term effects. The fact is that I don't see Hoover changing anytime soon. Hoover used to be a 6 Hp limit. Not sure when and why that was changed. I'll look into it. 

Here are a couple links about Hoover and the rest of the waterways.

http://utilities.columbus.gov/Conservation/WaterSources.htm

http://utilities.columbus.gov/Water/PDFs/HooverWMPlan.pdf


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> I agree with the Mod,nobody is going to reach common ground on this topic,I can't express my feelings without coming across as sarcastic,so I'm moving on.Let's just see what happens with the people in charge regarding the laws.Whether they pass it or not,I will still run my boat in a respectful manner towards other boaters,and hope they do the same with me.


If you cant talk without being sarcastic,why not just gather facts about the situation,and not try to fill people with words that may apply to you,but what about the guy who has the bass boat down the road may say "screw that,I will do what I want"..It seems most words comming from a couple of you are just meant to try and cut people down..Calling people broke and jealous isnt very sportsmen like..And I am not the only one who has a problem with the propossed idea,that should tell you somthin..And its not just with bass boats,its towards anyone who wants to go fast and not care about the boaters around them...I am also willing to bet the majority of bass boaters,are not tourney fishers...



lordofthepunks said:


> yep, had that feeling too when i was a kid. never wanted anything more then a ranger bassboat from the time i was 8 years old. worked my a** of for years before i was able to buy my first ranger bass boat when i was 25 years old. now i have a skeeter and its ultra annoying to me to have someone minimize my investments in fishing to "its your fault you bought a nice boat".
> 
> how would iraqvet feel if someone said how dumb it would be to spend a bunch of money on a racecar. "i choose to spend my money on other stuff, not waste it on a car you cant drive on the road". i cant handle this anymore but evertime i say im done i get goaded into returning. im gonna try again


No one is "minimizing" your investment..People are just saying there are a ton of bad apples in the group your associated with,IE bass boaters..And the pleasure boaters as well..Everyone likes nice stuff..But your trying to change somthin that works cause you dont wanna follow whats already in place..It benefits way more people to leave the majority of the limited lakes the way they are...The race car anaolgy dosnt really compare..That effects no one..It isnt what you chose with your money,but how it effects people..Maybe your group and the pleasure boaters should have given more people a reason to be in your corner about this issue...


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

flounder said:


> It is a city of Columbus controlled body of water as is Oshaun' and Griggs. The primary use of Hoover, Griggs and Oshaun' is for drinking water supply. .
> 
> One the issues, at least on Hoover, that has reared it's head in the last few years has been the tightening of the USEPA drinking water quality regs. The lowering of allowed contaminates has affected all supplies in the country.
> 
> ...


if that is true then why hasnt oshey and griggs also been effected. both are unlimited hp with speed limit of 40 and no jet skis. hoover is a much bigger waterway and seems like it would be less effected then oshey or griggs yet there is not a 10hp regulation on them.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> If you cant talk without being sarcastic,why not just gather facts about the situation,and not try to fill people with words that may apply to you,but what about the guy who has the bass boat down the road may say "screw that,I will do what I want"..
> 
> 
> ..People are just saying there are a ton of bad apples in the group your associated with,IE bass boaters..Maybe your group and the pleasure boaters should have given more people a reason to be in your corner about this issue...


plenty of facts have been presented and you have chosen to ignore them. such as, this exact thing has been done on a number of lakes over the last few years and NO PROBLEMS have been reported.

the only person that thinks that "tons of bad apples" exist in our group is you. and dont lump us in with the pleasure boaters. pleasure boaters could care less about taking their ship on a lake with a speed limit.

"should have given people more reason to be in our corner" - we cant buy everyone a bass boat.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> plenty of facts have been presented and you have chosen to ignore them. such as, this exact thing has been done on a number of lakes over the last few years and NO PROBLEMS have been reported.
> 
> the only person that thinks that "tons of bad apples" exist in our group is you. and dont lump us in with the pleasure boaters. pleasure boaters could care less about taking their ship on a lake with a speed limit.
> 
> "should have given people more reason to be in our corner" - we cant buy everyone a bass boat.


No,your stating opinions about how nothin has been effected..Your also assuming everyone will listen to the rules..Please go back through the thread and see how many people dont want the change,or have a problem with bad boaters or have seen bass guys act up..Surley I wont be the only one,thats a fact...And yes your right about pleasure boaters..But when you open up the lake,they will be sure to be there,not just the bass boaters..I wouldnt buy me a bass boat if I were you..I would sell the motor for some Sam Adams,and call some friends over to ride in the boat while I pull it with my truck in a muddy field..Your self proclaimed to be rich,so it wouldnt set you back any..But I still dont think you realize there are alot of us who really dont find bass boats all that desierable....


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Iraqvet said:


> I would sell the motor for some Sam Adams,and call some friends over to ride in the boat while I pull it with my truck in a muddy field..Your self proclaimed to be rich,so it wouldnt set you back any..But I still dont think you realize there are alot of us who really dont find bass boats all that desierable....


lol, and you said you wasnt a *******, sounds like about as much of a ******* thing to do as anything ive ever heard.

never self proclaimed anything, i have a nice home, my wife and i make decent money but im certainly not rich.


and i dont find priuses to be desierable either but i also dont think they should be limited certain roads either.


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## flounder (May 15, 2004)

lordofthepunks said:


> if that is true then why hasnt oshey and griggs also been effected. both are unlimited hp with speed limit of 40 and no jet skis. hoover is a much bigger waterway and seems like it would be less effected then oshey or griggs yet there is not a 10hp regulation on them.


The type of treatment system currently being installed at the the Dublin Road Plant is reverse osmossis and the reason for this is the Scioto has always had more contaminants due to runoff from farms (nitrates, etc) and requires a more involved treatment. The Morse Road Plant does not have this capability nor does it need it based on the quality of water coming into/from Hoover.


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## Marshall (Apr 11, 2004)

Just for you Iraqvet enjoy! The future of all limited hp lakes


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## Marshall (Apr 11, 2004)

Iraqvet i think you need a hug! Lord of the punks, you know im not gonna hug you! Thanks for the entertainment guys, it has been funny!


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

lordofthepunks said:


> lol, and you said you wasnt a *******, sounds like about as much of a ******* thing to do as anything ive ever heard.
> 
> never self proclaimed anything, i have a nice home, my wife and i make decent money but im certainly not rich.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the only thing fun to do with one to me...When it comes to redneckin,I dont involve alcohol and boats,on the water,like the ones you decribed you had a problem with...And mashall,I think your pretty disconected with reality and the state of these limited hp lakes...


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Flounder, not trying to start an argument with you but Harbor Hunter is 100% correct on ODNR having full jurisdiction on Hoover and the city owning the land around it. I read the links you supplied and you are correct that the city states they have jurisdiction, but the fact is, ODNR has full jurisdiction over all waters in the state of Ohio. Ohio Revised Code will verify this. You may also get on ODNR's web site and go to Division of Watercraft and read their history. If that doesn't do it, a simple phone call to ODNR should do it. They will have no problem telling you that they have full jurisdiction over all waters in the state of Ohio. This is not to say the city can't patrol the lake, they can. ODNR doesn't regulate how much water the city uses, just what happens on the lake. BTW, you were talking about the different treatment facilities and the Morse Road Plant not having reverse osmosis capability nor needing it because of the water quality of Hoover. What happens when they pump water from Alum over to Hoover for resupply when the water levels get to low at Hoover? Does the water quality change that much?


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Steeg said:


> Flounder, not trying to start an argument with you but Harbor Hunter is 100% correct on ODNR having full jurisdiction on Hoover and the city owning the land around it. I read the links you supplied and you are correct that the city states they have jurisdiction, but the fact is, ODNR has full jurisdiction over all waters in the state of Ohio. Ohio Revised Code will verify this. You may also get on ODNR's web site and go to Division of Watercraft and read their history. If that doesn't do it, a simple phone call to ODNR should do it. They will have no problem telling you that they have full jurisdiction over all waters in the state of Ohio. This is not to say the city can't patrol the lake, they can. ODNR doesn't regulate how much water the city uses, just what happens on the lake. BTW, you were talking about the different treatment facilities and the Morse Road Plant not having reverse osmosis capability nor needing it because of the water quality of Hoover. What happens when they pump water from Alum over to Hoover for resupply when the water levels get to low at Hoover? Does the water quality change that much?


 Exactly correct Steeg.Hoover is no different than Clear Fork Lake,which is owned by the city of Mansfield,as our drinking water supply.However as far as the lake itself,ODNR controls every aspect of it,yes the city of Mansfield does patrol the lake,and take care of the grounds,but any laws regarding the lake itself are imposed by the state.Same as the MWCD lakes,the Army Corps of Engineers maintain the grounds,but the ODNR has full jurisdiction of the water.
Marshall that was awesome,that's exactly how every lake should be! See Iraqvet,even I'm jealous of those sweet rides,damn I wish my boat could do 90mph.Hopefully one day I'll be able to scream across Pymy like that,and wave to the tooners' as I go by.


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## flounder (May 15, 2004)

Harbor Hunter said:


> Exactly correct Steeg.Hoover is no different than Clear Fork Lake,which is owned by the city of Mansfield,as our drinking water supply.However as far as the lake itself,ODNR controls every aspect of it,yes the city of Mansfield does patrol the lake,and take care of the grounds,but any laws regarding the lake itself are imposed by the state.Same as the MWCD lakes,the Army Corps of Engineers maintain the grounds,but the ODNR has full jurisdiction of the water.
> Marshall that was awesome,that's exactly how every lake should be! See Iraqvet,even I'm jealous of those sweet rides,damn I wish my boat could do 90mph.Hopefully one day I'll be able to scream across Pymy like that,and wave to the tooners' as I go by.


I not saying that ODNR does not have any say, in fact if you read he document on the water managemnet plan i posted then you will see that ODNR is a partner in the management of Hoover and the City does rely heavily on them for technical support and advice. Hoover is also subject to state boating laws with enforcement as is Griggs and Oshaun'.

What I am saying is that the City has FINAL say in what goes on at Hoover.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I'm done.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Marshall said:


> Iraqvet i think you need a hug! Lord of the punks, you know im not gonna hug you! Thanks for the entertainment guys, it has been funny!


why not marshal? youve seen me at the tournys, you know how pretty i am!

that video is NASTY! makes me want to put the LS-1 out of my gto on the back of my skeeter. 

one thing i noticed about that video, despite going speeds of 80mph+ they easily cross back and forth over eachothers WAKE! how could that possibly be? prob cuz there isnt one.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

hey flounder, thanks for adding a significant piece of info as far as the type of water treatment used at the facilities. if its true, and they wont change hoover because of that, then i accept it. i dont agree and it doesnt seem that a change would make significant damage especially since it would be a "no wake" lake but at least its not just a lame excuse from another guy that dont want to give up his private lake. 

appreciated.


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## Steeg (Nov 12, 2010)

Well everyone, I want you to know that I am officially giving up any thoughts I had of becoming a motivational speaker! Just don't think it would be a good career move. Seriously though, thanks to each of those that gave their opinions based on facts. And thanks to those that have taken the time to send their letters of support to ODNR. To the ones that think I spearheaded this for my own gain or because I want it all, sorry you think that way. Nothing could be firther from the truth. I really do want to see everyone that pays taxes and supports our lakes, be able to use them and not be made out to be some upper crust that wants it all, just because you might have a bigger engine on your boat. Hopefully, if we get the chance to prove that this can work, we can show the naysayers that it does indeed work. Thanks again to everyone. Now if you will excuse me, I have an appointment with my therapist!:Banane45:


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