# Olentangy 9/06



## braveall (Jun 20, 2010)

Was out along the river from 10am till 4pm, looking for good spots and fish.
Finally at the dam had pretty good action, 5 strikes and landed 2 good size bass. Not sure if they are small mouth or big mouth, hope that someone can identify them.
Gear used:
1. 4"yamasenko black with blue flakes, 
2. 1/8oz roundhead jig hooks
3. 10# braid line
4. Daiwa Takara2500

Not a bad catch for Labour Day!


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## I_Shock_Em (Jul 20, 2008)

they are smallmouth. have fun eatin those. I don't keep river (or any for that matter) smallies, let alone anything out of the tangy!!!!


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## Welsh Dragon (Jun 18, 2008)

Is it me or do they look sick? I mean other than being unfortunately dead their coloring looks nothing like the smallies I see out of the Tangy, especially the one on the bottom looks almost black.


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## 01mercLS (Oct 28, 2006)

Welsh Dragon said:


> Is it me or do they look sick? I mean other than being unfortunately dead their coloring looks nothing like the smallies I see out of the Tangy, especially the one on the bottom looks almost black.


Yea, that's what I was thinking.


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## trail_boss2 (Jul 30, 2010)

The last smallmouth I caught from the Olentangy looked the same way. All of the white parts had a black tint to it.


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

3...2...1...boom!!!!


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Those are smallmouths. 
But maybe you should brush up on your fish ID as there are indeed regulations, size limits, creel limits, etc...for smallmouth and other bass in many waters.
Identifying the fish is usually the first step in knowing whether or not you're allowed to keep it.


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## percidaeben (Jan 15, 2010)

ones in sand camo mode other in rock shade camo both come up a little short regulatory speaking


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

percidaeben said:


> ones in sand camo mode other in rock shade camo both come up a little short regulatory speaking


Really? Enlighten us all.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

percidaeben said:


> ones in sand camo mode other in rock shade camo both come up a little short regulatory speaking


He's within the regs, but he didn't know that at the time, seeing that he didn't know what kind of fish they were.
Unless he's fibbing on where he caught them.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

It's kind of pathetic that there is a 12" limit on smallies in Delaware (where I'm told you can't find them), and there is no restriction listed for what flows in or comes out of it. 

One of those fish is under 12". 

In fact I could not find any size regulations on flows. Sections of the Darby used to be limited to 15".


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

streamstalker said:


> It's kind of pathetic that there is a 12" limit on smallies in Delaware (where I'm told you can't find them), and there is no restriction listed for what flows in or comes out of it.
> 
> One of those fish is under 12".
> 
> In fact I could not find any size regulations on flows. Sections of the Darby used to be limited to 15".


Yes SS, there used to be a 15" size limit on a few restricted areas of the Big Darby and Sandusky rivers. The ODNR called it a trial regulation and dropped it a couple years ago saying it did not prove to make a difference. However, if you get the chance, ask them which river in their sampling program has produced the largest smallmouth bass and the highest overall average size. Somehow, they have missed the correlation. I recall an ODNR personel once saying, "I am fascinated at how much anglers desire to be regulated". I have a quote for the ODNR, "I am fascinated at your lack of understanding for how much harvest occurrs outside of your careful watch".


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## BingeAndPurge (Jul 20, 2010)

crittergitter said:


> I have a quote for the ODNR, "I am fascinated at your lack of understanding for how much harvest occurrs outside of your careful watch".


Haha I think about that all the time. I'm 32, buy a license every year, no matter how much or little fishing I plan on doing, and only once have I ever been asked to see my license, and that was in Colorado. I'd say half of my fishing takes place in water with no ODNR presence whatsoever. I don't understand how they expect to regulate the rivers and streams. It is very much an honor system.

Colorado is actually pretty protective compared to here. They charge you just to step foot on state parks to help pay for the amount of upkeep they have due to tourism.


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## braveall (Jun 20, 2010)

Here are the general fishing limits in Ohio:

http://www.ohiodnr.com/wildlife/dow/regulations/fishing_limits.aspx

There are no size limits for the Olentangy, only limiting the quantity of fish bagged.

The only size limit for the Olentangy are Crappies 9inches minimum, 30 fish maximum.

There are size limits for Lake Erie, Ohio and Pymatuning Lake though.

For details look in the link above.


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## claytonhaske (Apr 16, 2010)

just because its "legal" to take smallmouth from flows.......you still shouldnt, they take too long to grow to a decent size. and the fact that you didnt even know what type of bass they were, makes me think........you shouldnt of kept them at all!!!!


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

crittergitter said:


> The ODNR called it a trial regulation and dropped it a couple years ago saying it did not prove to make a difference.


I'd love to see the number of citations issued during the "trial regulation". I bet you anything it's in the single digits. In my 15 years on the Scioto I can count on one hand the number of times i've seen an DNR officer on the river. If you subtract sightings at Dams that number is 0, yes 0: I have NEVER seen a DNR Officer on the Scioto.

Simply put excluding the Ohio and Maumee the DNR could basically care less what you take out of Ohio's rivers. Same thing seems to go for game wardens. It's sickening that Ohio has essentially given up on it's rivers/streams. I've traveled throughout the Midwest and Ohio far and away has the most lax riverene/stream laws in the Region. Downright appalling if you ask me 

Oh and me thinks we are getting trolled...I mean posting a picture of a dead Smallie is one thing, Posting a close up picture of a 12" dead smallie with a stringer in it's mouth laying at home on a counter is a little...fishy


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## braveall (Jun 20, 2010)

If the legal regulations cannot be relied on, based on who's yardstick should an angler determine what size of catch to keep and which to release?


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

acklac7 said:


> Oh and me thinks we are getting trolled...I mean posting a picture of a dead Smallie is one thing, Posting a close up picture of a 12" dead smallie with a stringer in it's mouth laying at home on a counter is a little...fishy


It smells like a troll, but I have to admit, a damn good one. There were a few posts in his short history asking locations, and then a fairly informed post with pictures of some dead smallies. It looks like the OP did a lot of site homework, but that should have tipped him to knowing that those pics would stir up a storm.

Still, I have to vote for troll because the pics are so generic that they could have come from anywhere. One inconsistency that I see is that the OP claims to be fishing on 10 lb braid, and the fish are strung on heavy mono leaders. You'd expect a standard stringer--or no stringer once they are on the table. It's also odd that the background changes from pink to neutral in the closeup--like a photo buff trying out different filters.

The other thing that makes me suspect troll is that after your post, he does not come out and deny it but steers the thread in a different direction to keep the thread going--typical troll behavior.

My apologies if it isn't true. Welcome to OGF. Oh by the way, good luck on getting that limit of 30 nine-inch crappie on the tangy. 

Hey, I got flamed five years ago on some of the info I posted. Welcome to the club!

Go Raccoon creek! Clean 'em up boys! Too bad it's not like AEP where you can still hike five miles to find a half-decent pond. All of the holes are within convenient walking distance. Just look at Google Satellite on where to walk in! Just remember that the creek runs dry in spots at this time of year--still--no worries--it'll recover in 5-10 years.


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## braveall (Jun 20, 2010)

This is pure insult to anyone who is sane. And the way the comments are coming it just doesnt make one feel welcome to this fishing community.
This was my first decent catch and would like to share it as a report to everyone here. Whatever do I need to troll anyone for? I dont want to stir up any controversy, and never had I thought I would stir up any trouble by posting my experience on the river. I had done my homework checking out the bag limits, and bought the fishing license, and now I'm told I shouldn't take them just because it's legal, I shouldnt take them because I can't tell the difference between a small mouth and large mouth.

True, I had a short history of posting to make inquiries about the best places to fish. All the replies were generic, with no specific mention. I had gone to Griggs thrice with no results, and this was the second time I went to Olentangy, and I spent the whole of Monday morning trudging through the brush and bushes before I found my spot.

The fish were on monofilament as that was how I strung them up and put them back into the water to keep them alive.

I was using an autofocus cam and switched from auto mode in the zoom out pic, to the macro mode in the close up pics, hence the change in the background tones. So in a sense its like a photo buff changing filters.

Is it so wrong if I did not defend myself after the first "trolling" mention, rather than posting official regulations? It is so unbelievable that this can be seen as a "typical troll behavior". Maybe I should read more forums and form my own opinion as to what constitutes troll behavior.

Thank you all for reading. 



streamstalker said:


> It smells like a troll, but I have to admit, a damn good one. There were a few posts in his short history asking locations, and then a fairly informed post with pictures of some dead smallies. It looks like the OP did a lot of site homework, but that should have tipped him to knowing that those pics would stir up a storm.
> 
> Still, I have to vote for troll because the pics are so generic that they could have come from anywhere. One inconsistency that I see is that the OP claims to be fishing on 10 lb braid, and the fish are strung on heavy mono leaders. You'd expect a standard stringer--or no stringer once they are on the table. It's also odd that the background changes from pink to neutral in the closeup--like a photo buff trying out different filters.
> 
> ...


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## lacdown (Apr 25, 2007)

speaking of potential trolls, if you want to lighten up your mood go to the southwest forum and check out the Newbie thread.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

braveall said:


> This is pure insult to anyone who is sane.


No, just an insult to those whom aren't familiar with the problems we've had with trolls on this site

As for the comments, the vast majority of the anglers on this site _seem_ to strongly encourage others to catch and release stream/river smallmouth. This is a very sore spot for the community and one that comes up on literally every sub-board year after year. 



braveall said:


> Maybe I should read more forums and form my own opinion as to what constitutes troll behavior.


Here is a "mock" troll post that is somewhat similar to yours, and, as expected, got some similar responses.

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/comm...6&highlight=smallmouth+catch+release+manitoba


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## braveall (Jun 20, 2010)

acklac7 said:


> No, just an insult to those whom aren't familiar with the problems we've had with trolls on this site


>True, I am not familiar with the problems that you've had with trolls on this site.



acklac7 said:


> As for the comments, the vast majority of the anglers on this site _seem_ to strongly encourage others to catch and release stream/river smallmouth. This is a very sore spot for the community and one that comes up on literally every sub-board year after year.


>I apologize for not being aware of the prevailing sentiments.



acklac7 said:


> Here is a "mock" troll post that is somewhat similar to yours, and, as expected, got some similar responses.
> 
> http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/comm...6&highlight=smallmouth+catch+release+manitoba


> For the record, mine is an authentic post(gotta defend myself now  )


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

braveall said:


> (gotta defend myself now  )


Meh, I dont think there's need for that anymore .

Sorry for starting the whole troll thing, but as you read in that mock post things can get out of hand pretty quickly and I wanted to make sure your post was legit (you got to admit it did seem kinda similar to that other thread)

Anywho welcome to OGF! Lots of good people here, and with them bring lots of very good advice, as well as opinions. This topic (c&r of Bass, ESPECIALLY "environmentally challenged" stream/river Smallmouth) will bring out the later in a quick way .


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Well I'm about 3 months slow. I just now noticed the Manitoba poster in the background of LK's post. I figured it was a troll but never noticed the evidence. Also, it looks like my favorite OGF troll, GPS Savvvy Guy from a few years back, has been erased from this site. Even Andyman fell for his antics...


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

JamesT said:


> Also, it looks like my favorite OGF troll, GPS Savvvy Guy from a few years back, has been erased from this site. Even Andyman fell for his antics...


LOOOOL was that the dude that made a post in the central Ohio forum about selling the gps coordinates to his "secret spots" on the Scioto. That was back in the good ol' days of OGF lol.

(P.S. someone PM me about the whole Andyman MemberOGF deal...Be interested to know the details.)


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

braveall said:


> >True, I am not familiar with the problems that you've had with trolls on this site.
> 
> 
> >I apologize for not being aware of the prevailing sentiments.
> ...


Its more like the rivers here aren't the cleanest so its as much about your own preservation as that of these game fish..  Bass aren't the tastiest fish out there. Try to hook some Saugeye, Perch and Panfish for the skillet. Or Catfish. PLennnnnnnty of catfish to go around!


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

acklac7 said:


> (P.S. someone PM me about the whole Andyman MemberOGF deal...Be interested to know the details.)


I know that guy. I'll ask him.

Braveall, obviously you haven't done anything wrong and you have no need to apologize.
I will repeat that if you intend to keep what you catch, you should do yourself a favor get a fish ID chart or something to carry along.
And if you really want to keep fish, I can put you onto a dozen different places that you can fill a stringer of some nice, clean, great tasting pond panfish. 
PM me if you want the locations.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Sorry, for the misunderstanding.


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## braveall (Jun 20, 2010)

streamstalker said:


> Sorry, for the misunderstanding.


No hard feelings. I'm just here to fish and make buddies!


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

The issues are pressure on the waterways and preservation of the fishery.

As stated ODNR doesn't seem to put a lot of effort into providing firm management guidelines...though to be fair, that would require much more funding for personnel and programs.

Look up Ohio's State budget and you'll see that ODNR funding is very spare...about 90 million $$$ IIRC, as compared to billions for your favorite "Human Services"  line items. This situation won't improve with a large shortfall in the billions projected for the next 2 year budget. There's also the issue of whether management has as it's priority the fishery's health, or selling fishing licenses.

Pretty much the management is on us, and I tend toward caution...especially anywhere near urban areas where the amount of those fishing can be large.

You must realize that there are people who keep everything they catch, sometimes management regulation be damned. I don't imagine those leaving obvious fishing litter care very much about the fishery's health either.

There's also a lot to learn...which I myself have been doing and will continue to do no matter how long I'm at this...the species, the habitat...water quality is extremely important.

Management can have misc goals...total numbers, large size, a balance of both...for scientific management, this has to be tailored for specific bodies of water.

At the ODNR link provided...note that there are MANY specific waters which do have size limits...they do seem to neglect providing guidance on rivers and streams.

You might want to apply some of those guidelines to your own riverine fishing even though you don't have too. Taking nothing less than 16" may be an excellent guideline...and not a whole bunch of those.

though I have learned, just this year, that monster SM aren't the best breeders: Thanks to Eugene at TOSA and here.



> Those bigger fish will largely be female. Females continue to produce more and more eggs as they grow larger, but a growing proportion of those eggs will not be viable as the female grows older. You can plot the number of eggs produced vs. their viability. For smallmouth, the point where fertility is at its peak (before the loss of viability catches up with egg production) is often cited as approx. 15".


These large fish do provide a monstrous level of challenge to catch however...I'll never keep one.


Here's some good beginning reads...though just browsing the ODNR site can be rewarding:

http://ohiodnr.com/?TabId=11879

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/SpeciesGuideIndex/tabid/6491/Default.aspx

PA seems to put a lot more into the issue;

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/fishhtms/chap22.htm

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/slot_fish_management.html

Some issues:

http://ohio.sierraclub.org/central/SewerColumbusIndex.asp

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/06/14/federal-study-finds-streams-easily-hurt.html


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## percidaeben (Jan 15, 2010)

crittergitter said:


> Really? Enlighten us all.


smallmouth as are other fish have chameleon abilities many things will affect this trait-stress ,spwaning,aggresion and stalking prey.Even water qaulity up in Canada those granite lined lakes in Quebec hold the darkest colored walleye almost black when you first reel one up.During 01 i was able to takesome classes up at stone lab and the master students were at the time doing the goby consumption of smallmouth fry and they allowed me to tag along there were different markings of bass let alone sheepshead at different zones in the water.critter are you a part of the smallmouth alliance when do they meet next? does or how much to join and where do they meet id really enjoy that club and does anyone have any old issues of the Ohio Fisherman magizines


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

percidaeben said:


> smallmouth as are other fish have chameleon abilities many things will affect this trait-stress ,spwaning,aggresion and stalking prey.Even water qaulity up in Canada those granite lined lakes in Quebec hold the darkest colored walleye almost black when you first reel one up.During 01 i was able to takesome classes up at stone lab and the master students were at the time doing the goby consumption of smallmouth fry and they allowed me to tag along there were different markings of bass let alone sheepshead at different zones in the water.critter are you a part of the smallmouth alliance when do they meet next? does or how much to join and where do they meet id really enjoy that club and does anyone have any old issues of the Ohio Fisherman magizines


Interesting post. I raised my question because you said the fish come up short in the regulatory dept. That is what I did not understand.

Yes, there is a meeting this Thursday at Gander Mountain in Reynoldsburg.

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?p=1082169#post1082169


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

crittergitter said:


> The ODNR called it a trial regulation and dropped it a couple years ago saying it did not prove to make a difference.


Amazing...That sign at the trail head had no effect! How can that be???


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## danjaquino (Jun 2, 2005)

I think this quote is funny "I had done my homework checking out the bag limits, and bought the fishing license, and now I'm told I shouldn't take them just because it's legal, I shouldnt take them because I can't tell the difference between a small mouth and large mouth."

If you did your homework, wouldn't part of that homework be identifying the type of fish so that you can determine if the size is within regulations??? 

oh well, have fun, hope you don't take it the wrong way, just thought that was kinda funny!!!


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## braveall (Jun 20, 2010)

danjaquino said:


> I think this quote is funny "I had done my homework checking out the bag limits, and bought the fishing license, and now I'm told I shouldn't take them just because it's legal, I shouldnt take them because I can't tell the difference between a small mouth and large mouth."
> 
> If you did your homework, wouldn't part of that homework be identifying the type of fish so that you can determine if the size is within regulations???
> 
> oh well, have fun, hope you don't take it the wrong way, just thought that was kinda funny!!!


Hey gimme a break already! I've learnt my lesson, apparently my homework wasn't thorough enough!


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

The first bass I caught from the Scioto had me getting all slap happy...I CAN do this stuff!!

Carefully landed the fish, heart pounding...just a 12 incher...carefully unhooked the fish, put her back into the water and CPR'd until she took off.

Only at that point did I realize that I hadn't determined the species.

Can't say whether it was a SM or LM.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

danjaquino said:


> I think this quote is funny "I had done my homework checking out the bag limits, and bought the fishing license, and now I'm told I shouldn't take them just because it's legal, I shouldnt take them because I can't tell the difference between a small mouth and large mouth."
> 
> If you did your homework, wouldn't part of that homework be identifying the type of fish so that you can determine if the size is within regulations???
> 
> oh well, have fun, hope you don't take it the wrong way, just thought that was kinda funny!!!


What part of the homework are you suggesting he failed in? So he said he knew they were bass, just not sure if they were largemouth or smallmouth. I don't see where that makes a difference to his legality in the matter. They are in the same category. And we already established that there is no minimum length regulation on the rivers.

I think Braveall has heard plenty enough to know everyone's opinion on the matter. I don't think there was any "trolling" being performed here. If there was then he certainly caught his limit here.

Congratulations on your catch. You should not have to defend yourself to anyone here. You were within the regulations. If any of the comments spark a new way of looking at harvesting practices then fine but hopefully you do not feel the need to pass any evaluation from the membership here. 

I am sure that constructive and educational comments from the masses would have been much more accepted than accusations.


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## NewbreedFishing (Apr 15, 2004)

some very interesting views/comments posted. too bad it takes a gentleman keeping a few river fish to boost camaraderie. we all have learned conservation in our own time and way. pretty funny though.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

> And we already established that there is no minimum length regulation on the rivers.


Read your site specific regulations...there are limits on SOME riverine systems.

Only "some" is most likely a grave mistake due to insufficient and/or poor resources/management.

There are size limits on many other non riverine bodies of water for a reason.

The fishing pressure experienced by riverine systems is high, and this is combined with rather poor water quality due to agricultural runoff, l;awn chemicals and outdated sewage systems in urban areas.

Most likely a 15" limit is needed for riverine systems, whether the State of Ohio has gotten around to realizing/admitting that or not.

Take a look at the regulations from a State that puts more into fisheries management:

http://fishandboat.com/fishpub/summary/inland.html


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Smead said:


> Read your site specific regulations...there are limits on SOME riverine systems.
> 
> Only "some" is most likely a grave mistake due to insufficient and/or poor resources/management.
> 
> ...


"Some" may be an overstatement here. Since he posted this in the central Ohio reports I figured that he was not at risk. The only rivers I see mentioned for bass are the St. Joseph River Wildlife Area and the Mahoning River between between Berlin and Milton Lakes. Add to that the Lake Erie tributaries to the first dam.

I hear what you are saying on the need for more regulation but Braveall did not start this thread to discuss that. He was merely showing his catch for the day. Since he was within the laws to keep them I don't see why everyone insists on chastising him. It is quite obvious that many on this forum have a STRONG passion for conservation and they have their views of how it should be done. Feel free to discuss those views among yourselves but just try not to drag innocent new members down at the same time. A subtle indication of how fragile a river system is and keeping just a couple of fish would have been plenty enough to get him interested should he feel compelled.


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

bkr43050 said:


> "Some" may be an overstatement here. Since he posted this in the central Ohio reports I figured that he was not at risk. The only rivers I see mentioned for bass are the St. Joseph River Wildlife Area and the Mahoning River between between Berlin and Milton Lakes. Add to that the Lake Erie tributaries to the first dam.
> 
> I hear what you are saying on the need for more regulation but Braveall did not start this thread to discuss that. He was merely showing his catch for the day. Since he was within the laws to keep them I don't see why everyone insists on chastising him. It is quite obvious that many on this forum have a STRONG passion for conservation and they have their views of how it should be done. Feel free to discuss those views among yourselves but just try not to drag innocent new members down at the same time. A subtle indication of how fragile a river system is and keeping just a couple of fish would have been plenty enough to get him interested should he feel compelled.


I don't think that I myself "beat up" on the OP at all...I did provide some info links. There is a lot to learn regarding all aspects of the pursuit when someone begins fishing. 

The fishery's continued existence depends on conservation and habitat preservation, water quality...and the people using the resource; that is, if you want it to be sustainable.

We are already at a disadvantage, or you wouldn't see trash wall to wall as if Americans believed that the country is nothing better than a coast to coast landfill. Then, even worse, you have people who do fish who strew trash everywhere.

The water quality issues, whether it's sewage treatment improvements, getting farmers to agree to limit their runoff and/or take easements for waterway protection, dealing with lawn chemicals and the money to keep land undeveloped, are matters costing billions and much effort to address.

Then there is us, those enjoying the pursuit, what we will and won't do whether there is proper regulation or not. 

Fish populations are pressured to the point where you should be considering impact.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Smead said:


> I don't think that I myself "beat up" on the OP at all...I did provide some info links. There is a lot to learn regarding all aspects of the pursuit when someone begins fishing.


I was not citing you in particular. It was more of a general comment that applied to several posts in the thread.


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