# Can you make this lure?



## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

Ok guys... this is a special lure. Called a "backup." Floating shallow diver that absolutely KILLS the smallmouth in the river. Caught alot of LM on it too in lakes and ponds.

These were made by a gentleman in the dayton area in the middle and late 80's that has long sense passed away. 

I think they are balsa wood? I've only got a handful of specimens that exist. Busted one out of the weekend and caught 3 smallies in 3 different rivers when nothing else was working.

My dad is going to try and make a version on a 3d printer or something at his work... but I don't know if it will have the same action as the original. The bait in the photo is 25 yrs old and has seen water one time.

Anyone ever seen anything like this? Any idea on how it could be made? I'm really thinking of picking up a new hobby and trying to re-create this amazing works of art.

Any help or thoughts would be appreciated!


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## vc1111 (Apr 13, 2004)

Looks like a relatively simple design which could be carved from flat stock.

I'd suggest you start with cedar for the best action and start by carving the side view profile out of flat stock and then round off the bait with sand paper until you achieve that over all profile and shape.

You can purchase the diving lip ready to install. I would also cut the lip slot after cutting out the profile but before sanding.

Hope that helps.


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

They work!!! But most of that was Greek to me lol. You think cedar huh?











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## chatterbox (Jan 7, 2013)

Do a google image search for Heddon Hedd Hunter. These can also be found on e-bay. You'r lure looks like it could be a copy of the hedd hunter with easier to make changes. My thoughts. See what You think.


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

Wow!! Great find chatter. You very well may be right


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

My dad is apparently going to try and have a engineer at his work make one tomorrow on a new fancy 3d printer...anyone ever tried that before?


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## chatterbox (Jan 7, 2013)

I am a machinist. But no experience with 3d printing. Let us know how well it worked. The bait is called backup. Compare a hedd hunter with the bill on the opposite end.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

The 3D wil get the shape perfect but it won't be able to duplicate the bouyancy IMO.


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

Snakecharmer said:


> The 3D wil get the shape perfect but it won't be able to duplicate the bouyancy IMO.



Exactly what I was afraid of. Amazing action on the original that will "back up" from structure and trigger strikes. Not sure if plastic will be the same...


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## chatterbox (Jan 7, 2013)

Just how deep do they dive?


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

Shallow 3-5 ft max. 


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## FAB (May 26, 2013)

It's called a "Back Up Johnny" there are several listed on ebay at the moment.


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

Yeah real close Fab real close. All the ones I've seen don't have a hook on the point like those do. Shape is just a tad bit different too. I'd say guy in the 80s probly used that design and improved on it some. Thanks for the info!!!


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## Jim Paden (Feb 28, 2014)

ML1187:
Looks like a neat bait. I like to recreate lures from the past. I think I could duplicate without much problem. Do you have a extra i could get my hands on for about a week. It could be in very poor condition, just needs to function correctly. I will return it and a copy back to you for testing.
If you do not have a spare, or do not want to loan out, and I do understand why you may not want to loan out a treasured lure, I probably could get buy with photos.
Can you take detailed top, bottom front back and side view photos? Best if the photos are taken with a ruler visible in the photo. And weight in grams is very handy.

Also interested in any additional historical information you might have on the lure and lure maker.

Snakecharmer is correct, the 3D printer will make a good looking copy but will probably have a density of greater than 1, meaning it will sink.

I'd be glad to share my personal email and phone number if you would like to exchange more details.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Jim Paden said:


> ML1187:
> Looks like a neat bait. I like to recreate lures from the past. I think I could duplicate without much problem. Do you have a extra i could get my hands on for about a week. It could be in very poor condition, just needs to function correctly. I will return it and a copy back to you for testing.
> If you do not have a spare, or do not want to loan out, and I do understand why you may not want to loan out a treasured lure, I probably could get buy with photos.
> Can you take detailed top, bottom front back and side view photos? Best if the photos are taken with a ruler visible in the photo. And weight in grams is very handy.
> ...


Maybe he can send you the 3D copy with the actual weight of the wood lure?


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## Jim Paden (Feb 28, 2014)

Snakecharmer:
That is a good idea! 

ML1187: just confirm that the shape of the 3D is correct. Be glad to share progress with the group.

Thanks guys,

Jim P


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

Hey guys thanks!!! Good news is that I have several of these in a couple different sizes. May be able to get you a 3d and original if you want. But you have to keep this quiet lol. These baits are dynamite ok?


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## dwmikemx (Mar 22, 2008)

Here's what you need!!


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

So my dad took the lure to be made on the 3d printer and guess what? The machine is broken. They had a power surge the other day and apparently it did something not right. What genius doesn't use a GOOD surge protector on a $20,000 printer? 

So they are ordering parts and I'll keep y'all posted!


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

I've often wondered about 3-D printed baits. It would seem like it may be a good way to go for making 2 piece baits with rattle and/or air chambers for reduced weight and buoyancy. From what I've seen they are capable of incredibly fine detail. With all the solid resin baits on the rise, you would think that 3-D printing would be huge with tackle makers. Or is the material too brittle? 
Regarding the Backup lure you have, it looks like it would be fairly easy to make from wood. As long as the hardware and ballast weighting (if any) are equally matched to the original it should run the same. I have cut name brand baits in half before to see the guts in an attempt to replicate them as close as possible. An x-ray would be ideal, but they looked at me funny when I carried my tackle box into the hospital.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

All Eyes said:


> I've often wondered about 3-D printed baits. It would seem like it may be a good way to go for making 2 piece baits with rattle and/or air chambers for reduced weight and buoyancy. From what I've seen they are capable of incredibly fine detail. With all the solid resin baits on the rise, you would think that 3-D printing would be huge with tackle makers. Or is the material too brittle?


Some resins these days are good enough, but 3D printers are slow. They are a LONG ways from getting them fast enough for any real production quantities. Im not sure theyll ever be fast enough for most products.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

dwmikemx said:


> Here's what you need!!
> 
> Fishing lure duplicator - YouTube


Apparently AC Shiners are made the same way! After watching this video, I'm gonna have to pick up a few of these.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

We used 3D printers at the die shop for designing. It can make a copy that works on any thing. We started learning process with things like the drill press vices and a simple crescent wrench.
Did a scan and you can shrink enlarge or leave original size. When removed it the screws and all other parts moved just like the originals. Mighty impressing to people who never seen one. Have heard of people replicating hand guns and changing plastic firing pins for an original one and the barrel also. 
Unlimited things they can do. Any lure would be a piece of cake.
Also ids a solid plastic that can be drilled and machined so i figure weighting it would be no problem. I never tried to see if any thing floated though.


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

Thank you M.Magis and Viper1 for the 3-D printing info. I am one of those who was blown away by the technology when I first saw it. I have recently been thinking about buying stock in 3-D Systems. They are only going to get better and faster over time, and I can't see them not playing a big role in the future of manufacturing and design.


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## bbsoup (Apr 3, 2008)

Check with Fisherman's Quarters in downtown Dayton. They will be able to tell you all about your lure. Some of the employees there are among the circle of fishermen who were around near the origin of this bait. In fact, I do believe you may still be able to purchase this hand made lure there. I was introduced to these by some friends back in the 90's, who made me one on the spot when I expressed interest.


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## bbsoup (Apr 3, 2008)

ML1187, check out the tackle meet I just posted about in the Outdoor Events forum (there are 2 identical threads because a mod moved one in there from the SW forum, while I had already listed it in Events, as well. Apparently you are not allowed to inform the locally affected forum with a separate thread there. Against THE RULES [booming echo]. You are, however, free to discuss the event after it is over).
I think I mentioned last year that I had once scored a box full of cherished custom crankbaits at this show. I was referring to 4 Backup baits, among others. As good as Backups are, though, they were not even the main things I was interested in when I bought that box of 26! Every single one an absolute fish slayer. That is all I can say without fear of receiving a knock on my door late one night...
Just look thoroughly if you decide to kill a little time there this weekend, you might find something there you'll get nowhere else.


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