# Stocking Browns In Ohio Tribs



## Buckeyefly

I have seen a lot of nice brown trout pics this year from the Rocky. I think Ohio should throw some brown trout in the mix with our steelhead. Why are we missing out on this opportunity? Any thoughts, pros, cons, etc.


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## KTkiff

I agree. If the pa creeks can handle them ours definitely can. 


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## fishfray

I think what we are lacking is a dependable and affordable source for the fish. The habitat is most certainly here, and browns often inhabit water that is less trouty than steel. Their water temp tolerance is a bit warmer.


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## CrappieCowboy15

Down at conny the other weekend was talking to a fellow that told me that they were going to begin stocking browns next year.


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## pafisher

Penna. has been stocking Browns for a couple yrs now and those fish will spread thru out just like their fall run Steel.


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## rickerd

Why should we stock the browns when PA will stray here?
Where do you think the money will come from? ODNR fish budgets are tight anyway. 

We would do better to raise and stock the New London strain again for 30 percent of our steelhead program. Those were a good fall and winter trout for our streams.

What we need is a trout stamp in Ohio, in order to separate the dollars for trout from other Ohio budget amounts. If the stamp pays for the trout program, who could argue its legitimacy. 

rickerd


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## Fishermon

The last thing we need is to have Browns stocked, if you think the rivers are crowded now and there are a bunch of inconsiderate fisherman on the rivers, stocking more fish will only add to those issues, I don't want our Ohio rivers to turn into NY or Pa.


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## mdogs444

Fishermon said:


> The last thing we need is to have Browns stocked, if you think the rivers are crowded now and there are a bunch of inconsiderate fisherman on the rivers, stocking more fish will only add to those issues, I don't want our Ohio rivers to turn into NY or Pa.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


I agree. In fact, I wish they would make OH steelhead an artificial only, catch & release fishery at least for 5-10 years and see what kind of returns we get and see if they fish can maintain relative numbers in natural spawn.


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## FAB

mdogs444 said:


> I agree. In fact, I wish they would make OH steelhead an artificial only, catch & release fishery at least for 5-10 years and see what kind of returns we get and see if they fish can maintain relative numbers in natural spawn.


And what would you propose for the lake fish caught, which are usually kept. Most river steelheaders will usually release their catch. I would like to see the pressure spread out a little with a fall run stocking like the London strain and a continuation of the Manistee spring run stocking.


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## mdogs444

Keeping lake fish is fine. Steelhead are not really that targeted outside of the river mouths during running season. I would propose a catch and release from October 1-June 1, which is during primary running and spawning season. I would also like to see harvest methods of catching made illegal during running & spawning season. Transform more into a PNW style fishery. Let them reproduce and naturally breed in aggressive instincts, instead of baiting them the same way they do in a hatchery.


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## phishyone1

I have always thought they should not allow keeping of fish from feb 1 through end of spawn.......... protect what we pay for and will have larger fish to boot, due to more surviving ......... Also lower summer lake limit..... Im For the stocking of Browns in Ohio myself, It give the river more spawning fish in fall, which in turn give steelies food and a decent egg bite in turn


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## pafisher

If there would be no stocking of smolts in the spring in a couple years there would be no Steelhead to fish for.The plain truth is the Ohio,Penna.,and NY streams except for the Cat are too warm in the summer to support the young of the year Steelhead.


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## KTkiff

Sorry to hijack the post but this is somewhat related. Why do we hear of numerous Browns being caught on the Rocky but not the other Ohio tribes like the Chagrin and Grand? They are stocked in Pa so they have to travel past those rivers to get to the Rock. Any thoughts?


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## Salmonid

several considerations to ponder, first most is that the Great Lakes Fisheries Council highly regulates thhe amount of predator species stocked into the lakes and with Erie being stocked from Ohio, Penn and Ny and Canada, one of the states would have to give up numbers so that Ohio could stock, the amount of fish stocked is what the commission believes is the "magic" number that the baitfish and ecosystem of the lake can support. Lots of politics involved but basically if Pa is stocking them, what is the major reason for stocking them in Ohio?? other then for a variety of species to be caught by the same amount of anglers who are already pursuing steelies, in other words, if they stocked browns, would it help more people buy a license? nope... another this is funding, nuff said, another thing is space in the present coldwater hatcheries ( Castalia and London) which is already stretched, part of the reason they eliminated the fall trot stockings. Lastly the state would have to switch to a different strain of brown that has a higher return rate then the strain being used for the inland streams ( Mad, Clear Fork and Clear Creek) this means doing some trading with another state to get the eggs and in return means growing more of one of our warmwater species to supply that states needs. For example I believe we supply channel cats to Michigan for steelie eggs, or at least we did at some point

Id be interested to see an official return rate from PA to there streams before making any uninformed opinions and part of the problem is that if PA's fish are returning to Ohio, then Ohio needs to make sure we are not getting that strain, LOL since they are not helping Pa's efforts. 

to answer why some fish show in one of Ohio's streams but not all, could very easily be that that stream may just have a similar smell to the fish causing its homing instinct to bring them back to the wrong stream. Many studies on returning anadromous species coming back to different streams from whence they were stocked from out West, and that's the conclusion.

Would I love to see some big browns, sure but there is a lot more to this then just stocking them. They are eating machines and require deep water with a high number of baitfish and I believe the Eastern Basin just doesn't have that available

Salmonid


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## kapposgd

Steelhead > brown trout. Especially the manistees BC they fight so hard. As mentioned before it takes way more money to raise browns than steelhead anyways


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## smath

pafisher said:


> If there would be no stocking of smolts in the spring in a couple years there would be no Steelhead to fish for.The plain truth is the Ohio,Penna.,and NY streams except for the Cat are too warm in the summer to support the young of the year Steelhead.


I just want to highlight this post -- there is not enough natural reproduction in these streams to support the kind of fishery we have come to expect. I think the problem is not only water temperature but also that the spawning areas in these streams muddy up too often to allow naturally spawned eggs to hatch in sufficient quantities to maintain the fishery. This is a good question for Mike Durkalec at Cleveland Metroparks.


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## etheostoma

I am just learning to fish for steelhead, capitalizing on something that I cannot change. Do I think ODNR has any business stocking non native fish in our waterways? Heck no. Steellhead do not belong in Erie anymore than round gobies. Browns certainly don't belong in the mad river system considering that they are piscivorous and that river system is the last place that the Western tonguetied minnow is holding on. Yeah, it is great to fish for them, and I will. Ethical, nope. Fun yes. Flame away, but nature did it right, man screws with it all and does not see the repercussions down the road.


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## reo

I wish Ohio would make the steelhead fishery bait only


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## kayak1979

They stocked 17,000 browns in Punderson this fall....

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/stay-in...ts/post/bonus-trout-stocked-in-punderson-lake


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## W DeMarco

KT, I've watched a bunch of browns come out of east side tribs this season. Even saw one and heard of 4 others landed on Euclid Creek along with abunch of kings. Have not had the pleasure of landing one yet tho...:S


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## racetech

Id like a better fall run than we get, I like to fish all winter, and a better fall run would make for more fish staying up stream for the winter. Its pretty sparse now.


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## Archer4life

Sorry mdogs. I like my 6ft hoop. Maybe a flies only section? And no I do not think you will ever have enough natural reproduction. How bout just quit stocking and exist on the strays. Most of the guys that are not hardcore would hang the gear up since they would have to fish hard for a few fish? Wouldn't be worth it for the out of staters either.


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## Buckeyefly

Great to see all the input on brown trout. I think we have a lot of access to our Erie tribs. There is a lot of public water to fish. Lets puts some browns and a few salmon in the mix with the steelhead. Sell a trout stamp, make it catch and release during certain dates, whatever it takes. We have from the end of Sept. till May to catch cool water fish. The state can adjust the regulations to balance the predator vs prey relationships.


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## Rasper

What was our return rate for steelhead in the rocky? Correct me if I'm wrong but was it 150,000?


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## Rasper

Taken from an interview


Many anglers want Ohio to release brown trout, joining Pennsylvania and New York.

"Brown trout stockings won't happen, simply because there is not enough hatchery capacity to do it," said Kayle. "If we shift things over into another program, we'll lose on a one-to-one ratio. We're satisfied with steelhead and really excited about releasing larger fish because we're seeing greater returns."


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## flylogicsteelhead

Stocking Browns in Ohio is a waste of $$$$. The reason being, most of the PA browns are showing up in deeper cooler waters in NY. the PA return on browns is poor at best. If Ohio is actively stocking browns, while we will see a few more, the majority will be benefiting NY anglers. 


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## flylogicsteelhead

KTkiff said:


> Sorry to hijack the post but this is somewhat related. Why do we hear of numerous Browns being caught on the Rocky but not the other Ohio tribes like the Chagrin and Grand? They are stocked in Pa so they have to travel past those rivers to get to the Rock. Any thoughts?
> 
> I
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


 lost a pig of a brown on a small east side trib last week. I nearly cried




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## Osmerus

It all boils down to money. New York and P.A have a larger more established hatchery systems for Salmonids. Think this is mostly due to their much larger inland trout fishery compared to Ohio. Plus they have more access to cold springs for hatchery water compared to Ohios much warmer waters.


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## MadMax1

Ive seriously fished steel for about 8 seasons now, and this is the first year I caught a brown (rocky). Then, a week later my brother and lands one - completely ridiculous because that's the first trout he's ever pulled out of a river. I would believe the claim that the numbers are possibly up here. I think the rarity of catching one on a western OH stream makes it more fun. I wouldn't want them to start spending money on stocking and browns, Plus steelhead fight better anyway. The idea of stocking some London's in addition is interesting! In my opinion it took Rocky up until about December to really start coming into its element. Would be cool to get strong runs starting earlier and continuing on. 


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## The Outdoor Connection

We'll have District 3 river guy Phil Hillman on with us for an hour long interview this Saturday, January 3rd. Listen 5-6am & 8-9am on-air or by streaming it > http://www.wone.com/onair/outdoor-connection-418/


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## reo

Archer4life said:


> Sorry mdogs. I like my 6ft hoop. *Maybe a flies only section?* And no I do not think you will ever have enough natural reproduction. How bout just quit stocking and exist on the strays. Most of the guys that are not hardcore would hang the gear up since they would have to fish hard for a few fish? Wouldn't be worth it for the out of staters either.


A flies only section? Really? Why? Do fly fishermen pay more for their license? No? Then why should anyone get special access, rules or regulations. We all pay for the fishery. Fish where you want with any legal gear you choose.


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## atrenz

Any of you guys ever fish the flies only stretch of the PM up here in Michigan? If not, please come experience it before casting a vote in favor of flies only..... my personal experience and opinion.....the single most over crowded stretch of the river, all elitist attitudes, even though I am indy fishing it with a pin and nymphs I am "lower" because it is not being presented with a helios..... trust me, even if you're purely into fly fishing, that's cool, and I totally respect those who are.... but whatever prized few miles that would be designated as flies only would become overcrowded due to the appeal and allure of fishing with only "like minded folks".... now speaking from a guy that uses bait more often than not, who thinks there should be an "eggs only" stretch?!?! Hehehe only kidding! My opinion, get out and fish however is legal and ethical in your book, treat others how you want to be treated, and enjoy every second you have on the water!


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## mdogs444

reo said:


> A flies only section? Really? Why? Do fly fishermen pay more for their license? No? Then why should anyone get special access, rules or regulations. We all pay for the fishery. Fish where you want with any legal gear you choose.


Areas in the Midwest use a fly only section for several reasons. One is because the lower stretches of water - from the piers to large slack like in the lower grand, are not very conducive to fly fishing, so they so put fly only sections on the upper sections in order to guarantee them spots on the river. Another is to protect spawning fish by only allowing artificial in those areas.

I personally do not care for a "fly only" section, rather I favor an artificial only with single barbless hook.


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## mdogs444

atrenz said:


> Any of you guys ever fish the flies only stretch of the PM up here in Michigan? If not, please come experience it before casting a vote in favor of flies only..... my personal experience and opinion.....the single most over crowded stretch of the river, all elitist attitudes, even though I am indy fishing it with a pin and nymphs I am "lower" because it is not being presented with a helios..... trust me, even if you're purely into fly fishing, that's cool, and I totally respect those who are.... but whatever prized few miles that would be designated as flies only would become overcrowded due to the appeal and allure of fishing with only "like minded folks".... now speaking from a guy that uses bait more often than not, who thinks there should be an "eggs only" stretch?!?! Hehehe only kidding! My opinion, get out and fish however is legal and ethical in your book, treat others how you want to be treated, and enjoy every second you have on the water!


Chances are most areas that you fish are filled with "like minded" people, you're just choosing to single out us "smug fly fisherman". How many fly fisherman do you see in large slack areas or on the piers by the mouths? I bet not many, if any. So, its safe to say those areas are filled with "like minded" fisherman, no?

And while many fly fisherman tend to have expensive gear, its not a requirement, and its not smug. People are smug, a sport is not. I can take a $75 Cabelas fly rod and outfish many people with $1000 rods. Fly fisherman tend to be more naturalists - as in its not how many you catch, or how easily you catch them...but rather, the way in which you catch them. Not using harvest methods (eggs), not using real bait, or trebles that can snag....but rather creating something artificial out of natural feathers and basic material to mimic something living, and getting a natural fish to chase and attach something that is not real. At least, that is my personal take on it, as I tie all of my own flies, only spey fish (swinging large patterns), use very little/if any flash, and always debarb hooks while using a gear/pawl dragless reel. If the way you do it is without challenge due to your own skill, then it seems somewhat pointless to me as I don't keep the fish.


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## atrenz

Aw come on man, don't feel like I singled you out, or generalized all fly guys by any means. All apologies if it came off that way! Agreed smug people are everywhere, we "pinheads" have them running with us with $1000+ combos and whatnot!... I have nothing but respect for you and guys such as yourself, whom truly fly FISH. What I mean by that is spey/swinging vs the chuck and duck guys (most of them!) trying to convince themselves they are getting bit. Your reasonings and beliefs are spot on, and I applaud you!.... I was purely speaking from my experiences fishing our flies only water up here. It truly is a larger concentration of smug folks more focused on what/how someone else is doing, versus doing what they came there for; to enjoy time on the river. So with all of that said, in fact, I do plan to give spey a try once I get a few extra bucks lying around. It truly is the most beautiful and challenging form of fishing for steel that I can think of. Much respect! Plus, maybe if I got into it, I'd finally have a shot at a date with April Vokey!!!


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## mdogs444

Hey no worries, I wasn't worried about singling me out, just more generalizations per say. But glad you cleared it up and I agree with you.

In regards to April, I fished with her for a week up in BC in August....a few weeks before her wedding. Sorry bud, but she's off the market! ha.


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## fishfray

There are ways to bottom bounce flies with or without split shot that could be considered chuck n duck, but the fish are definitely eating. Indicator fishing, bottom bouncing, and swinging are all ways to get legitimate bites. I catch a lot of trout behind salmon beds bottom bouncing egg patterns with split shot without an indicator and I'm 100% sure they are biting. Why we need to place certain methods of fly fishing above or below others is ridiculous(except for snagging/flossing presentations). Fish legally and however you enjoy most.


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## kayak1979

mdogs444 said:


> In regards to April, I fished with her for a week up in BC in August....a few weeks before her wedding. Sorry bud, but she's off the market! ha.


Sounds like you were at the right place at the right time!


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## atrenz

kayak1979 said:


> Sounds like you were at the right place at the right time!


Man, sounds like a fish story to me! "Should have been here yesterday!" Lol!!!! Congrats to her tho! Or him? Catch of the decade!!!!


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## reo

mdogs444 said:


> Areas in the Midwest use a fly only section for several reasons. *One is because the lower stretches of water - from the piers to large slack like in the lower grand, are not very conducive to fly fishing, so they so put fly only sections on the upper sections in order to guarantee them spots on the river.* Another is to protect spawning fish by only allowing artificial in those areas.
> 
> I personally do not care for a "fly only" section, rather I favor an artificial only with single barbless hook.


Soooo, because of the lower rivers geology there should be upper parts that are off limits to those using bait so those choosing to use flies are "guaranteed" spots on the river. Makes perfect sense, that is as soon as there are bait only sections.... Not to mention that the part about spawning fish being protected by only allowing artificials is just plain laughable. Like spawning fish are not targeted by fly fishermen, LOL!!


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## privateer

I really don't care about the fly vs not restrictions as I will fish either... However, if you go that way, then I think it has to be a bait vs artificial restriction instead of the rod/line used...

This time of the year, all of the guys i know in PA that are fly fishing are using the same bait as everyone else right now - egg sacks...

I asked why they throw egg sacks with fly gear when spinning gear works as well in my experience (throwing egg sacks and other live bait). Response was that it is easier to get a good float with the floating fly line than with spinning gear and mono lines.

I too am in favor of the PA trout sticker approach as it supports much more than just Lake Erie steelhead fishing. Not sure we really want a pay-for-fish species approach in Ohio. walleye stamp - trout stamp - catfish stamp... this would put a species ahead of biology and in long run that can't be good.


BTW: if you want to catch some big trout this time of year (or that matter 12-months of year). take a look at some of the tail water trout fisheries in Eastern Tennessee. These are stocked put-and-take with many breeders released seasonally. Think the TN state Brown was from Clinch River - below Norris Dam (almost 29-lbs). I have personally caught quite a few steelhead size rainbows there too. I have also caught nice rainbows in Dale Hollow Dam and it is a great river fishery below the dam too -- note that Dale Hollow has a hatchery at the dam.
http://www.tn.gov/twra/fish/StreamRiver/tailtrout/tailtrout.html


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## Switch

privateer said:


> I really don't care about the fly vs not restrictions as I will fish either... However, if you go that way, then I think it has to be a bait vs artificial restriction instead of the rod/line used...
> 
> http://www.tn.gov/twra/fish/StreamRiver/tailtrout/tailtrout.html


Can't agree more. Fishing is for fun. It doesn't matter much about how you do it...... legally.


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## mdogs444

privateer said:


> BTW: if you want to catch some big trout this time of year (or that matter 12-months of year). take a look at some of the tail water trout fisheries in Eastern Tennessee. These are stocked put-and-take with many breeders released seasonally. Think the TN state Brown was from Clinch River - below Norris Dam (almost 29-lbs). I have personally caught quite a few steelhead size rainbows there too. I have also caught nice rainbows in Dale Hollow Dam and it is a great river fishery below the dam too -- note that Dale Hollow has a hatchery at the dam.
> http://www.tn.gov/twra/fish/StreamRiver/tailtrout/tailtrout.html


NW New York and middle Pennsylvania also have trophy browns. Anywhere from Sandy Creek, Oak Orchard, and Salmon River have lake run browns that get up to 15-25 pounds, and Penns creek has large, aggressive natural spawning browns that get up to 30+ inches. Over summer, we saw a 24" brown dead on the bank with a 16" brown halfway down its throat, head first. Took off a bit more than it can chew, and drowned.


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## Buckeyefly

You guys are a buzz kill for my future OH brown trout run. Lol...lol. All I wanted was a shot at landing a few brownies or an occasional pink. Well Sat. and Sun. look like slush free days on the rivers. I'm going to play the Rocky River Lottery and hope I lay into one of those brown beauties. Can someone point me in the direction to the Tenkara only section of the Rocky? I have a box full of Kebari flies I would like to high stick thru some runs. Good luck to everyone before the rivers lock up!


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## Rasper

The talk about TRUE fly fisherman kills me. Try swinging a fly in 80cfs on a switch or spey just doesn't work.... but i agree chuck in duck has gotten to me... i hate the split shots on the fly line it grinds my gears. Sooooo I've tried tungsten weight bead heads and a small piece of foam for nymphing. But i pin swing on a switch, swing on a single hand... and the chuck and duck. But.... back to the browns. It's a lottery why not just fish to catch anything.... a fish is a fish.... don't get me wrong I'd love to catch a brown but it just gives OH rivers more of an exciting twist... when you see that beautiful brown pop up and surprise you. My friend caught a carp in 36 degree water... he was so excited. Cause I caught a skipper steel. Just my two sense though


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## mdogs444

Rasper said:


> The talk about TRUE fly fisherman kills me. Try swinging a fly in 80cfs on a switch or spey just doesn't work....


A true fly fisherman is about attitude and naturalist, not your method of fly fishing - be it single hand, switch, spey, skagit, etc. And yes, swinging a fly in 80cfs does work, depending on what you are doing and going for. I do not do it in Ohio, but do skate flies using a floating or intermediate poly leader just beneath the film for steelhead and other forms of trout that attack surface and "look up". People equate swinging flies with two handed rods as using large flies, heavy sink tips, and dredging the bottom, which just is not the case.


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## kayak1979

Fly fishing is a joke. Watch and you'll understand.

Fly Fishing is a Joke: [ame]http://youtu.be/yyxcuSifsqs[/ame]


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## W DeMarco

mdogs444 said:


> People equate swinging flies with two handed rods as using large flies, heavy sink tips, and dredging the bottom, which just is not the case.


For me, the largest fly I can enjoy throwing, even on my switch, is a lil rascal. And often I trim my store bought flies down quite a bit. 

Rasper,

Have you tried any weighted putty instead of shot? I bought some on a whim and it sat in my pack for a couple of months. After finally using some I have to say the stuff is pretty cool. Takes a bit longer to rig but it is far more enjoyable to throw it.


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## pafisher

kayak1979 said:


> Fly fishing is a joke. Watch and you'll understand.
> 
> Fly Fishing is a Joke: http://youtu.be/yyxcuSifsqs


I enjoyed that and it tells it the way it is for me!


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## flylogicsteelhead

Great post on the video!

Guys our fishing styles and extremely unique to us. I have taken many newbies out to get them hooked on our streams chasing steel. I encourage all to share that passion whatever method. 

To the original post since Ohio won't be stocking browns. Once I land my stray trophy, mount it, I'll post it here. 


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## Rasper

mdogs444 said:


> A true fly fisherman is about attitude and naturalist, not your method of fly fishing - be it single hand, switch, spey, skagit, etc. And yes, swinging a fly in 80cfs does work, depending on what you are doing and going for. I do not do it in Ohio, but do skate flies using a floating or intermediate poly leader just beneath the film for steelhead and other forms of trout that attack surface and "look up". People equate swinging flies with two handed rods as using large flies, heavy sink tips, and dredging the bottom, which just is not the case.


I wish sarcasm traveled through the internet. But yeah My method is by far not a true fly fisherman.


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## MadMax1

Im not sure what is more natural than using bait foraged from the earth to catch fish with...? Or eggs used from a fish that is being taken for consumption. Been used to catch fish far before fly tying supplies like mylar tubing, or gsp thread were invented. Or various polymers to make fly lines, or engineered carbon fly rods, or metal alloys for fly reels... So to the guys who keep hijacking every posting and turning it into a pissing match, preaching that 'naturalism' can only be achieved thru the fly - I hope you're throwing tenkara flies bound to wooden hooks from bamboo poles as to not toe that line of hypocrisy... 

As far as BROWN TROUT go, based on the RR blog - more and more keep showing up - really cool!! 


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## mdogs444

MadMax1 said:


> Im not sure what is more natural than using bait foraged from the earth to catch fish with...? Or eggs used from a fish that is being taken for consumption. Been used to catch fish far before fly tying supplies like mylar tubing, or gsp thread were invented. Or various polymers to make fly lines, or engineered carbon fly rods, or metal alloys for fly reels... So to the guys who keep hijacking every posting and turning it into a pissing match, preaching that 'naturalism' can only be achieved thru the fly - I hope you're throwing tenkara flies bound to wooden hooks from bamboo poles as to not toe that line of hypocrisy...
> 
> As far as BROWN TROUT go, based on the RR blog - more and more keep showing up - really cool!!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


A simple correction, but I don't expect you to know this - the earliest recording fly fishing was done in the 2nd century, while tenkara was not born until about the 1500s.

If harvesting pre-spawn females under the guise of consumption in order to take their eggs for more pre-spawn females makes you feel better about your fishing adventures, then so be it. But that is in poor sport. While its obvious you do not appreciate the art of using natural feathers from birds fur from animals in order to create your own lure, the idea that its not "natural" because its now the 21st century and past wooden reels is complete bunk. But just to make you happy, I will inform you that often times I do use a 1917 bamboo 4wt for trout as well as a Bob Clay Riverwatch series 7/8 custom 3pc bamboo spey rod with a Hardy Perfect from pre-WWII. Cheers!


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## racetech

I dont get it. Fish to fish. respect the river and others and do it how you want to do it. At least thats how I do it.
For me fishing is leaving it all behind. All the money, job, stress and problems of the world, and just enjoying nature and being in Gods country. I enjoy myself even when I dont catch anything, wich is 80% of the time lol


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## fishinnick

Some great conversations guys!

More lake-run browns in Ohio would be really cool, but the chances of the DNR stocking them again are not good for reasons already discussed. PA has an ok amount(but still not a ton), not too sure of the NY lake Erie tribs. One of these days I want to make a trip to the Lake Ontario tribs for them. Thinking a road trip next fall.

I'm a little puzzled at the DNR putting all those browns in Punderson. Hopefully a good amount hold over......



atrenz said:


> Any of you guys ever fish the flies only stretch of the PM up here in Michigan? If not, please come experience it before casting a vote in favor of flies only..... my personal experience and opinion.....the single most over crowded stretch of the river, all elitist attitudes, even though I am indy fishing it with a pin and nymphs I am "lower" because it is not being presented with a helios..... trust me, even if you're purely into fly fishing, that's cool, and I totally respect those who are.... but whatever prized few miles that would be designated as flies only would become overcrowded due to the appeal and allure of fishing with only "like minded folks"


I agree!!! I have never fished the PM, but from my experience on FFO sections in PA I agree with you. In fact I&#8217;m in favor of fly fishing only sections since it keeps all the elitists, snobs, and wannabes in one little section and leaves the rest of the stream(often more productive) for myself  :B 

The concept is great for conservation purposes(which doesn't always work), but that's about it.



mdogs444 said:


> NW New York and middle Pennsylvania also have trophy browns. Anywhere from Sandy Creek, Oak Orchard, and Salmon River have lake run browns that get up to 15-25 pounds, and Penns creek has large, aggressive natural spawning browns that get up to 30+ inches. Over summer, we saw a 24" brown dead on the bank with a 16" brown halfway down its throat, head first. Took off a bit more than it can chew, and drowned.


Not just middle PA. Penns Creek is an awesome stream and I love it...........but there are lots and lots of options of 20+ inch wild brown trout all throughout the state. I haven't personally seen 30+ non lake-run fish in PA but I'm sure there's a few around. I live in Ohio(near Mosquito Lake) 15min from the PA border and I can be on a stream with a few 20in class wild browns a touch over an hour from home......and that number increases the farther I drive. The fish are there.........but I'm ok with sending everyone to Penns and the other famous Central PA streams   It is a great fishery. Beautiful stream too. Very cool about that 24incher with the 16&#8221; fish in its mouth!! I guess my streamers are a little on the small side&#8230;..



mdogs444 said:


> People equate swinging flies with two handed rods as using large flies, heavy sink tips, and dredging the bottom, which just is not the case.


Exactly!!!!!! I swung streamers on a small stream with my 7&#8217;6&#8221; single hand 3wt today. And I swing(and strip and dead drift, sometimes on the same drift) with my 9ft 5wt single hander(and other rods&#8230;..including a switch) all the time. Sometimes streamers, small wets, or dries depending on the situation. Swinging caddis imitations can be deadly for trout. Two handers and sink tips are not required to swing&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..but they sure have their time and place.



racetech said:


> I dont get it. Fish to fish. respect the river and others and do it how you want to do it. At least thats how I do it.
> For me fishing is leaving it all behind. All the money, job, stress and problems of the world, and just enjoying nature and being in Gods country. I enjoy myself even when I dont catch anything, wich is 80% of the time lol


Very well said


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## zimmerj

fishinnick, great post. Do you fish Oil Creek and Clarion? I live in northeast Ohio and to reach those streams is about 2-1/2 hours. I've been fly fishing for only 5 years and would love to fish a PA stream. Would those rivers be worth the drive?


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## icingdeath

zimmerj said:


> fishinnick, great post. Do you fish Oil Creek and Clarion? I live in northeast Ohio and to reach those streams is about 2-1/2 hours. I've been fly fishing for only 5 years and would love to fish a PA stream. Would those rivers be worth the drive?


I will jump in.Oil crick is beyond beautiful.2 green posts to the swinging bridge is ffo.fished it for 30 years.Pine Creek around the corner is also good.lots of browns.also upstream are native browns.caught one last year and they are beyond beautiful.


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## Willyfield

Back in the early to mid 80-'s the ODNR used to stock browns. They didn't do it long though. I still have the 11-1/2lber, mounted, I caught back in 85. Just missed the state record at that time. I also caught a few others. They would just about spool you. I think they quit stocking them because they didn't return well. Still wish they would stock some Londons. I really hate winter fishing.


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## fishinnick

zimmerj said:


> fishinnick, great post. Do you fish Oil Creek and Clarion? I live in northeast Ohio and to reach those streams is about 2-1/2 hours. I've been fly fishing for only 5 years and would love to fish a PA stream. Would those rivers be worth the drive?


Yep! Well, I have yet to fish the Clarion(it's been on my list fooorrreeevvveeerrr) but I have a couple friends who fish it kinda regularly. Not a big numbers place but it's got some serious fish. I fish Oil a couple times a year.....spend most of my time fishing other creeks around there. The two special regs sections are good but can get crowded. The open regs water is also good. All stockies, no(well, maybe a couple somewhere) wild trout in Oil. As icingdeath said it's definitely a beautiful stream. Love that area up there. I've fished Pine a few times and did ok but really want to explore it more. You can pm me if ya wanna discuss more(icingdeath, we may have talked in the past about that region?). And there's closer options than Oil and Clarion. Neshannock is a good one for stockies. 

Now back on topic....

They should make Rocky River bamboo Tenkara two-handed rods only with dry flies. Ditch the Manistees, bring back the Londons, and all browns should be banked :T


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## icingdeath

we did nick.but that was about the "other" gem....


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## fishinnick

Ahh, I remember now. If I'm thinking of the right stream it fished great in the summer. No real trophies from there this year though....


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## Archer4life

I can see in the future a classic piece of prose being written by mdogs444. It will be titled Confessions of a Naturalist Steelheader. It will be a sequel to April Vokey's piece titled Confessions of a steelhead snob.


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## Archer4life

To all of the simpleminded harvest method steelheaders. Don't bother reading it because you are inferior and could not possibly comprehend the meaning.


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## MY BONNIE

More steelhead please. 

Sent from my C811 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## MY BONNIE

Sent from my C811 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## MY BONNIE

Killing browns is good. They both make for a good time. 

Sent from my C811 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## kayak1979

My bonnie what lb and length was that top one being held?!


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## Bigjoe

racetech said:


> i dont get it. Fish to fish. Respect the river and others and do it how you want to do it. At least thats how i do it.
> For me fishing is leaving it all behind. All the money, job, stress and problems of the world, and just enjoying nature and being in gods country. I enjoy myself even when i dont catch anything, wich is 80% of the time lol


a-men!!!


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## ratfink

NYSDEC has been stocking browns in lake erie along the creek mouths for a number of years. Returns have been dismal at best, you catch an odd one here and there but no significant numbers. It remains a steelhead fishery.


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