# Capsized boat!



## smallie75 (Dec 9, 2005)

What gives with this story? Saw the flares go up and heard some possible rumors? Anyone?


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## Gju42486 (Mar 7, 2005)

coast guard station cleveland harbor received a call from a park officer about 4 red flares in the area around e. 72nd street, station cleveland lauched a 25ft response boat, while enroute, we got more information that there was a capsized vessel just off shore, once on scene we found the owner safely onshore, he was cleared by ems and deemed ok.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

thanks george


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## Gju42486 (Mar 7, 2005)

hey no problem, i figured since i was out there id give the run down, didnt want the news to hop on here and tell it completly different and wrong----i cant lie though, huuge pucker factor out there trying to pull him off the rocks :C :C


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

What do they do with the boat in a instance like this? Have a private company tow it to shore where a hired crane lifts it out of the water and places it back on his trailer? (if he has one).
That has to be expensive.


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## Dixie Chicken (Nov 12, 2004)

Tigger and I were just about to pull the boat at the dock when we saw the second flare. It was actually the first one we saw. We had a friend out there in a smaller boat and thought we should check it out. John had just jumped off the boat and jumped right back on. Off we went. We called our friend on the phone and headed out. Jig was ok but there was another flare so we went looking. Saw a cooler floating near the wall. Scared us both. Then had the spot light on the wall. We saw a small about 12' boat upside down on the wall and a person standing on the wall. Next thought. How many on board??
Scared us again. Called to the guy on shore and he said he was alone. There was a smaller boat trying to help the guy on the wall. The winds were just so that it was VERY tough for them. We had already called the Coast Guard. We called to the other boat who had no radio. Told them the Coast Guard was in route and to hold off trying to help. They agreed and backed off. Kudos to the Coast Guard as they were there REALLY FAST!!!!
We stuck around and watched them get the guy in. When we got to the ramp Cleveland PD, Fire and EMS were all there but left quickly as the fellow was ok. We did talk with him and he is in town for the Holiday Season from Mich. First time fishing out of Cleveland at night. He won't forget this trip soon! 

Again the Coast Guard was great. We are lucky to have such a fine group in Cleveland.

In talking with the guy that was rescued he said he took a wave over the transom and the motor died. Next thing he new he was on the rocks and the boat flipped. He was only wet from the waist down. 
Another reminder we all need to be safe.
DC


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

Lewzer said:


> What do they do with the boat in a instance like this? Have a private company tow it to shore where a hired crane lifts it out of the water and places it back on his trailer? (if he has one).
> That has to be expensive.


That's exactly right on all points. Insurance will cover the cost of most if not all of it. BoatUS, will also cover cost of chemical cleanup if necessary...now that seems like it can get really exspensive.


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## Toolman (Jun 8, 2004)

I agree the CG does a fine job. I'll probably catch some crap for this, but...I think it is unfortunate that people choose to go out on Erie in a 12' boat placing their lives, and subsequently others lives in danger. A narrow beamed, 12' boat, very likely without radio, bilge, etc. has no place on Lake Erie...especially at night. JMO.

Tim


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Toolman said:


> I agree the CG does a fine job. I'll probably catch some crap for this, but...I think it is unfortunate that people choose to go out on Erie in a 12' boat placing their lives, and subsequently others lives in danger. A narrow beamed, 12' boat, very likely without radio, bilge, etc. has no place on Lake Erie...especially at night. JMO.
> 
> Tim


I was thinking the same thing especially considering it is late season with cold water which could add to the risk if capsized. Not to mention the waves apparently were hammering.

I also wondered if the guy may have been a bit premature with his flares if he made it to the rocks only wet from the waist down. If he was that close to the shoreline I wouldn't think getting the Coast Guard involved would have been necessary. But then again I don't know exactly what went on. Perhaps he was in more danger than the report sounded. If so, by all means use the flares. Fortunately he had them with him.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

Lewzer said:


> What do they do with the boat in a instance like this? Have a private company tow it to shore where a hired crane lifts it out of the water and places it back on his trailer? (if he has one).
> That has to be expensive.



Correct. I have a buddy that capsized his boat last season. He had to hire a private salvage boat to go out and get his boat. The salvage boat went out, hooked up his boat, and brought it back to a marina that had a boat hoist. They lifted it out of the water, and set it on the trailer. The capsized boat was about ten miles from the marina. The cost was about $4700.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Lewzer said:


> What do they do with the boat in a instance like this? Have a private company tow it to shore where a hired crane lifts it out of the water and places it back on his trailer? (if he has one).
> *That has to be expensive.*


You're right. And the owner IS responsible. What Hook said about the environmental cleanup and/or citations from EPA can be extremely expensive.

12 foot boat on Erie at night... Darwin Award candidate.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> The cost was about $4700.


Holy smokes! And that doesn't include repair costs either.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

Lewzer said:


> Holy smokes! And that doesn't include repair costs either.


No it didn't. If I remember correctly, it was $450 per mile for the towing, and $200 to flip/hoist, and set the boat on the trailer.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Hetfieldinn said:


> No it didn't. If I remember correctly, it was $450 per mile for the towing, and $200 to flip/hoist, and set the boat on the trailer.


I think I am in the wrong business. Wow! Even if you creep at 1 mile an hour you still make $450/hour. I didn't take the fuel cost into consideration though.

If you don't have much wrapped up in your boat it would make more sense to leave that as wreckage.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

bkr43050 said:


> If you don't have much wrapped up in your boat it would make more sense to leave that as wreckage.


My guess is they would throw the book at anybody discovered trying to do that.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

bkr43050 said:


> I think I am in the wrong business. Wow! Even if you creep at 1 mile an hour you still make $450/hour. I didn't take the fuel cost into consideration though.
> 
> If you don't have much wrapped up in your boat it would make more sense to leave that as wreckage.



I'm pretty sure that, by law, it is the owners responsibility to get any capsized/wrecked boat off of the lake ASAP. Leaving a capsized boat out on the water bobbing in the waves is asking for trouble, not to mention the leaking of gas and oil into the lake.

I was out there the day my buddy capsized. The waves were downright nasty. The salvage guy that retrieved it made every penny he was paid. There is no way that I would have went out there, in any boat, and tried to hookup to the capsized boat and bring it in.


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## snake69 (Sep 26, 2005)

Just a thought here, you said something about the guy maybe being a bit premature...Maybe if he'd of waited another 2 or 3 minutes it might've been too late. I imagine at that time, he's either come close to crappin' his pants or in the process of shaking it out of his pants. I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. Of course, maybe he shouldn't have been out, but that's another story altogether and not my call. Glad he's ok! Good to know that guys like Dixie Chicken and Jig would go out and try to help, rather than the world alot of us know, i.e:someone's in distress and everyday citizens turn their back and walk/drive away. Good effort guys....I personally applaud you!!


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I understand that it is necessary to remove the boats and I would not leave one myself either. I guess when I wrote that I was thinking in terms of one sunken and not just capsized and was wondering how many may choose to simply leave them at that point. No doubt if it is capsized and still on the surface it needs to be removed quickly.



Hetfieldinn said:


> I was out there the day my buddy capsized. The waves were downright nasty. The salvage guy that retrieved it made every penny he was paid. There is no way that I would have went out there, in any boat, and tried to hookup to the capsized boat and bring it in.


I can see a premium being paid in those types of conditions. I just wonder if the fee is based on factors such as the current conditions or if they simply charge a large fee to cover for that type of scenario?


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

snake69 said:


> Just a thought here, you said something about the guy maybe being a bit premature...Maybe if he'd of waited another 2 or 3 minutes it might've been too late. I imagine at that time, he's either come close to crappin' his pants or in the process of shaking it out of his pants. I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. Of course, maybe he shouldn't have been out, but that's another story altogether and not my call. Glad he's ok! Good to know that guys like Dixie Chicken and Jig would go out and try to help, rather than the world alot of us know, i.e:someone's in distress and everyday citizens turn their back and walk/drive away. Good effort guys....I personally applaud you!!


Like I said I don't know all of the conditions or circumstances involved so your description could very well be right. It just sounded as if he must have been very close to the shoreline when he had trouble since he was on the shore with the boat on the rocks.


> In talking with the guy that was rescued he said he took a wave over the transom and the motor died. Next thing he new he was on the rocks and the boat flipped. He was only wet from the waist down.


I read that as the guy was on the rocks before he even fired the flare. Maybe not. Again, I don't want to make any issue of it. I guess I was only mentioning it to suggest to guys that if they are in fact on the shore and not in danger they may want to not signal the Coast Guard immediately.

Bottom line is that it is good that the guy is alright. And overlooked in the discussion was the good deed by the guys that responded to the flare. It sounds like your deed didn't actually save lives in this case but very well could have in other circumstances.


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## bassmastermjb (Apr 8, 2004)

Spoke to someone at the docks at Edgewater that had to be towed in around midnight last summer.The taxi or tow boat charges $75.00 to respond to a call and $75.00 for each hour.Or he could have bought the yearly membership for $75.00 that covers him for anywhere on Lake Erie.This was not considered an emergency situation, but I'm sure for the people on the boat it was.This is a different situation that the guy in the capsized boat, but for what we have tied up in our boats and gear,$75.00 is a no brainer.I'm pretty sure this insurance only runs for the the months of April to September.My buddy has the pamphlet at home and I'll update this later tonight when I talk to him........Mark


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## snake69 (Sep 26, 2005)

I agree, I wasn't trying to make an issue. But I remember 4-6 weeks ago and I was out there and the waves kicked up, I'm 10-12 miles out and it got ugly. Call it scared or smart, but I decided to call the Coast Guard and alert them to my situation. They didn't come out, but did monitor my movements every 15 min until I made it safely in. I don't know how long it took to get out there, less than an hour for sure, but it took over 3.5 hrs to get back in, fighting 6 to 7 ft'ers in with a South wind. Had I not called and failed to make it in, no one would've known until possibly way toooo late. Trust me, knowing they had my coordinates made me feel much better. That's really all I meant, better safe than sorry. By the way, does anyone know what size boat it was? I suppose it doesn't matter if the motor dies, eh...!


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## RiverRunner88 (Jun 15, 2006)

snake69 said:


> Glad he's ok! Good to know that guys like Dixie Chicken and Jig would go out and try to help, rather than the world alot of us know, i.e:someone's in distress and everyday citizens turn their back and walk/drive away. Good effort guys....I personally applaud you!!



agree 100% the main point is he's OK and Larry and John did a great thing helpin great job guys!!!!!!!!!


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

snake69 said:


> By the way, does anyone know what size boat it was? I suppose it doesn't matter if the motor dies, eh...!


In Dixie Chicken's post he guessed around 12 foot. It wouldn't take much to capsize a boat that size out there.

I agree that you contacting them in your situation was a good thing. I may very well have done the same. There is a difference in verbal contact with status and whereabouts versus flares. Nevertheless if he felt that he was in danger then there is not a problem. I was only mentioning that so that consideration can be made as to whether there is physical danger involved or not. The Coast Guard is certainly there to serve everyone when in need but they don't want to be called out to non-emergencies.


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## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

I wonder if it was the small jon boat that had no lights, just a couple glow sticks hanging off the side and back.


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

It's on WKYC Outdoors

http://www.wkyc.com/outdoors/news_article.aspx?storyid=78481


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

called for an insurance tow in april off catawba and they were not in buisness for the season yet. so towboat is of no help in the OFF season.this time of year as they are in drydock???? seen a duckboat getting towed in a few yrs back . it was hook up to the bow and dangling like a tuna on the salvage boat.


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## donkey (Aug 28, 2004)

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=81804 

Alone in a 12 foot boat at night!On lake Erie.This man is a Bufoon and is lucky that he escaped with his life. Do not talk nicey about this incident.I have seen his kind fishing at the crib on a calm day.His Arse is hanging over the back of the boat with about 2 inches of Freeboard as he waits for a wake.The only smart thing he did was bring flares.Reread the above post before you go out if you are new to the nite bite.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

freyedknot said:


> called for an insurance tow in april off catawba and they were not in buisness for the season yet. so towboat is of no help in the OFF season.this time of year as they are in drydock???? seen a duckboat getting towed in a few yrs back . it was hook up to the bow and dangling like a tuna on the salvage boat.


I brought that up last year when guys were out around Christmas and got the typical flame job. Never did get an answer as to when the CG pulls their gear for the winter.


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## Gju42486 (Mar 7, 2005)

KaGee said:


> I brought that up last year when guys were out around Christmas and got the typical flame job. Never did get an answer as to when the CG pulls their gear for the winter.


KaGee, we try to keep at least two boats in the water at all times, we have a 41ft utility boat- Aluminum hull with white cabintop, and 2 of the 25ft orange response boats, During the slow season, like now for example, we keep our 41 and atleast one 25 in. We typical pull our resources when the ice no longer lets us respond to search and rescue. Once the lake freezes, we switch gears and do ice rescue, with our gear, we do not typically use boats for this technique, we transport on foot to where we are needed.


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## BlueMax (Dec 3, 2006)

KaGee said:


> I brought that up last year when guys were out around Christmas and got the typical flame job. Never did get an answer as to when the CG pulls their gear for the winter.


Don't confuse the tow boat with the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard will save your butt if it is in jepordy. You are on your own if you simply break down and need a tow. Commercial towing or a fellow boater. I think Freyed was referring to a commercial tow. The Coast Gaurd will not tow you in. However George obviously would know of exceptions. I wonder if at this time of year if you are dead in the water if the CG considers that life threatening due to low air temperatures.


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

yes towboat pulls their boat for winter early, and comes back out late in spring.the day i needed help ,i was not in danger so the C.G.'s response was to flag down another boater for help. i did managed to get her going after a half hour.


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## Gju42486 (Mar 7, 2005)

BlueMax said:


> Don't confuse the tow boat with the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard will save your butt if it is in jepordy. You are on your own if you simply break down and need a tow. Commercial towing or a fellow boater. I think Freyed was referring to a commercial tow. The Coast Gaurd will not tow you in. However George obviously would know of exceptions. I wonder if at this time of year if you are dead in the water if the CG considers that life threatening due to low air temperatures.


This time of year the routine we follow is like this. We maintain a 24 hour radio guard on channel 16, once we receive a call about a disabled vessel, we gather the following pertinent information to further assist us, we ask location, number of people on board, any health or medical concerns on board, are you currently anchored, and we advise everyone to put on PFDs. Following that phase, we will switch you over to a coast guard to non coast guard channel to free up channel 16 for another possible distress. Coast guard policy states that we may not interfere with commercial salvage unless it is deemed to dangerous or life threatning like stated above. However, if all commercial salvage vessels are out of the water for the year, we issue what we call a MARB- Marine assistance request broadcast. We broadcast the marb on channel 16, a marb basically announces that you need assistance and invites other boaters in the area to proceed to you location. Depending on the condtions like weather, sea state, medical history, age of passengers ect, determines how long we will wait untill we launch. The MARB is policy, but yes, if all commercial salvage is out, the coast guard does deem that as an emergency, and will more than likely launch to assist, although we encourage the good samiritan program so we remain available incase another situation of more importance happens to arrive, for example, boat taking on water, person in the water, flare sighting ect.


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## Fish-Crazy (Dec 1, 2006)

Larry and John, way to be on top of things!

Tight Lines!


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks George for the reply. Very informative. 

I was referring also to the tow service that Freyed mentioned. I could have spelled it out better I guess.


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## bassmastermjb (Apr 8, 2004)

The tow service is Cleveland Marine Towing 216-631-4399 and they run from May 1st to Nov 1st.Cost is $75.00 per year or $75.00 per call + $75.00 per hour, so the least it will cost you would be $150.00 if you don't sign up for the program.Sounds like a good investment to pay the $75.00 up front just in case it's needed in non-emergency situations.


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## snake69 (Sep 26, 2005)

I don't know about many of you, but I've had AAA for years. This year I signed up for BoatUSA's coverage. To my understanding, they will tow my boat if I break down on the road and vehicle is not driveable.(Ahh...AAA for the tow vehicle) I believe(?) they will also tow my boat to shore if I break down on the water. Don't know the specifics, guess I should read up on it over the winter. I pd for the supreme package for $29.95. One tow whether on the water or road will pay for itself. I know my AAA has paid for itself many times over. Blew a motor once leaving the Ohio River in WVA, towed back. Another time, same place, broke a key off in the hatch, no key for the ignition...towed back. Also blew a radiator on the way to Berlin to fish company walleye tourney, vehicle towed home! (Someone at the bait store pulled the boat to Berlin so I could fish though!!)Hopefully I never need the BoatUSA coverage, but I have it and would suggest it to all!! I have full coverage on the boat, but their coverage makes me feel alot better. Anybody else have BoatUSA? If I'm wrong on any of their coverage, I'd like to hear from you.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Kinda hard on equipment , huh?


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## johnny fish (Feb 20, 2005)

First off let me say to the person who capsized your lucky to be alive so you have something to be thankful for this thanksgiving.Now let me say that people like you give a bad name to all of us anglers who fish the night bite or any other bite for that matter. I myself have a 12' vhull and would never even consider taking her on Erie even on a calm day at high noon. smallie75 and myself have fished Erie since we were big enough to hold a fishing rod and have logged more hours on that lake from shore and boat then most people ever will, so it is because of ignorant people like you that when we roll up to the launch with a 17' ranger in tow the general public gives us a look like we are crazy and make comments about having 911 on standby,well let me tell you we know what that vessel or any other vessel we step foot on can or can't do. as for how you capsized the word is you were backtrolling,to me or anyone else with experience on erie that tells us you read an article or watched a segment on t.v. about walleye fishing. Well that tactic is fine if you are on an inland lake up north but on erie it's not a wise choice as you found out the hard way.Thank your lucky stars that you are alive and that caring anglers like all the folks on ogf were on the water to assist and next time use your head for something other than a hat rack!!!!!!!!!


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## snake69 (Sep 26, 2005)

Yea, it sounds that way, doesn't it. I suppose when you have 5 kids and can't afford newer vehicles, that's what ya deal with. The Explorer never gave an inkling that the motor was going, but it started acting up and actually locked up all in about a 10 mile stretch. The Jeep ran great ,(still does, the woman's cousin drives it to Cleveland every day) and I had a crack in the key...failing to put the spare on my key ring, I went fishing anyway and when opening the hatch, the key broke off. I upgraded to a decent 97 Blazer this spring, in fact, I've towed my boat to Erie about 10 times and the Ohio 2-3 times since buying it. But right after I got it, on my way to the company walleye tournament at Berlin, I was getting off the highway and I saw all this smoke coming out the exhaust....limped to the bait store and realized the radiator was junk and subsequently....BLOWN! Luckily a guy from work pulled in, he was gonna fish from shore that day, and he offered to pull me to the lake. The funny thing about that story? He ended fishing with a guy who's partner didn't make it and he ended up going home with almost $300. He also towed my boat back to Canton for me. All in all, it seems I'm hard on vehicles or bad luck. Generally, a vehicle lasts me years. My work truck(89 Ranger) cost me, are you ready for this...$3, yes, that's three dollars.(pd the taxes on an *alleged *50 sale fee) Had it to the Ohio 2-3 times, Berlin a half dozen times last winter ice fishing and it's been great. I swear by AAA for the above reasons, and that's why I bought the BoatUSA coverage. Sorry for the longwinded post, just thought I'd clear my name a little........


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## BigDaddy300 (Nov 1, 2004)

johnny fish said:


> First off let me say to the person who capsized your lucky to be alive so you have something to be thankful for this thanksgiving.Now let me say that people like you give a bad name to all of us anglers who fish the night bite or any other bite for that matter. I myself have a 12' vhull and would never even consider taking her on Erie even on a calm day at high noon. smallie75 and myself have fished Erie since we were big enough to hold a fishing rod and have logged more hours on that lake from shore and boat then most people ever will, so it is because of ignorant people like you that when we roll up to the launch with a 17' ranger in tow the general public gives us a look like we are crazy and make comments about having 911 on standby,well let me tell you we know what that vessel or any other vessel we step foot on can or can't do. as for how you capsized the word is you were backtrolling,to me or anyone else with experience on erie that tells us you read an article or watched a segment on t.v. about walleye fishing. Well that tactic is fine if you are on an inland lake up north but on erie it's not a wise choice as you found out the hard way.Thank your lucky stars that you are alive and that caring anglers like all the folks on ogf were on the water to assist and next time use your head for something other than a hat rack!!!!!!!!!


WOW!!! I think the guy had the crap scared out of him and learned his lesson. Probably didn't need that lashing from you or anyone else for that matter. Was he unprepared? Sounds like it. Careless? Maybe. I am not defending him, just think maybe people should just back off. We have all done stupid and reckless things in our lives Anyways, what do you think the minimum length should be for a boat on Erie? Just wondering.


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## Snackmans Dad (May 2, 2007)

Accidents happen to everyone at one point or another, some worse than others with different outcomes. Everyone out there needs to watch each others backsides, that's what it all is about. The ability to learn from mistakes is key so it will not happen a second time.


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

[Anyways, what do you think the minimum length should be for a boat on Erie? Just wondering.]
15'-11-7/8" and that includes all PWC jetskis and duck hunters

By the way, the other thread said "maintain a proper lookout" meant you can't boat alone ?

The automobile regs also say you need proper lookout.

...


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## Gju42486 (Mar 7, 2005)

By the way, the other thread said "maintain a proper lookout" meant you can't boat alone ?

The automobile regs also say you need proper lookout.

...[/QUOTE]

as defined in NAVRULES: 

Rule 5- lookout
* EVERY VESSEL SHALL (WILL) AT ALL TIMES MAINTAIN A PROPER LOOKOUT BY SIGHT AND HEARING AS WELL AS BY ALL AVAILABLE MEANS APPROPRIATE IN THE PREVAILLING CIRCUMSTANCES AND CONDITIONS SO AS TO MAKE A FULL APPRAISAL OF THE SITUATION AND OF THE RISK OF COLLISION. 

***everyone on board is considered a lookout, no matter age,experience ect, so yes, boating alone is allowed, but it surely is better to have as many eyes focused forward and aft as possible.*****


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## Chucky (Apr 6, 2006)

BigDaddy300 said:


> WOW!!! I think the guy had the crap scared out of him and learned his lesson. Probably didn't need that lashing from you or anyone else for that matter. Was he unprepared? Sounds like it. Careless? Maybe. I am not defending him, just think maybe people should just back off. We have all done stupid and reckless things in our lives Anyways, what do you think the minimum length should be for a boat on Erie? Just wondering.


Thats OGF for ya. A lot of criticizing goes on here. But you know what? I know for sure a few are all talk. I know a pretty black Lund was running around us when my starter took a crap. I had my mortar compartment open trying to get it to jump start for about 2 hours. You think that black Lund would come over and see whats up? Nope, just cursed right by about 20 yards looking at us like we're retards looking for their fish. One guy trolled by us. Then about a half hour he came back and asked if we needed help in. He asked why we didn't yell at him for help when he went by the first time 20 yards off the bow. I told him I wasn't sure if anyone really cared because the others sure didn't? Well my insurance company left me on hold for over an hour on the phone so we took his help. I dropped that insurance like a rock and got all my money back. Now I have Progressive and BoatUS. 

Don't relay on people because they can be all talk. I can tell EVERYONE on this site here. If you are in trouble meaning broke down, sick, or ANYTHING!! Look around and if you see a 19ft red and white Wellcraft. I will pull you in or help any way I can!! Even if I'm not out I will do everything I can to make sure you get help. PM me if you want me cell # to add. Take the offer you never know when you might need it.


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

Chucky said:


> I had my mortar compartment open trying to get it to jump start for about 2 hours. You think that black Lund would come over and see whats up? Nope, just cursed right by about 20 yards looking at us like we're retards looking for their fish.


Not trying to start any trouble here nor criticize in any way...but did you have a distress flag displayed in this case...???


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## Chucky (Apr 6, 2006)

noooo your not being criticizing in anyway or starting something. lol. I did not have my flag up as I was told that was for real distress. Meaning, sinking or taking on water or if someone needs medical help. Just like the flares or calling the Coast Guard. Thats what I am still understanding in some of the post right now. 

We were safe, had water, food and the weather was warm and waves were flat. I didn't want to fly that flag premature or shot a flare as were working on the problem. I had the insurance company on the cell. Well on hold while they look my info and get a tow company. I was told if there is motor problem to raise the motor compartment and that meant the motor died. 

If you look back in the threads my situation has been brought up before. And what I remember is to raise up the motor compartment on a motor break down. LOL I can just see it now. There would be a thread about some dumbarse was fling his distress flag because the starter went out!! 

If I should of raised my flag I guess I misunderstood what I read. But how do you learn when so many people criticizing some one for their decisions? Oh, you are dumb for doing that. Or my way is the right way not yours. I did learned that you do not call the insurance company when you break down. Progressive said to call the tow company first. Then call them. Then they reimburse you the tow fee.


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## krustydawg (Apr 26, 2004)

Experience comes from making mistakes. Everyone on here has learned what to do and what not to do in life by learning from their own mistakes or someone elses, end of story.


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

Seriously, I'm not critizing here at all. Just wanted to know the circumstances in which you were referring.
Now having said that...!  How would anyone know you had a mechanical issue if you didn't put the flag out. My understanding, which I could very well be wrong...That's what a distress flag is for. The situation can be elevated by using flares (In a life threatening situation). But a flag only means you have some issue that requires attention from another boater who's within site of seeing that flag first and foremost. It can also help identify which vessel is in distress in a crowded pack.
I must have missed your most when this actually occurred, but you raise a very good point.

Now, Turkey time...!


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## TIGGER (Jan 17, 2006)

krustydawg said:


> Experience comes from making mistakes. Everyone on here has learned what to do and what not to do in life by learning from their own mistakes or someone elses, end of story.



I have to agree with you. I have done many stupid things when I was younger .......nothing that I am proud of. From capsizing boats In the old Eastlake powerplant days (dropping the boats over the side from the parking lot) to getting swamped by giant waves while duck hunting the down town breakwall that came completely over the breakwall while we were tied up on the other side. Falling thru the ice while ice fishing to my shoulders. Nothing that I am proud of but they taught me very important lessons with almost paying the ulimate price. That was when I was in my 20's. I am in my 40's now and I consider myself a very safe boater. I am in no way suggesting that this is the way to learn things. I was lucky to get a second chance some aren't so lucky.

The boater involved was a very lucky individual. He was down from Michigan for a week to work in the area. He pulled the boat down to fish on his off time I think. Jig had mentioned that he thought he saw him back trolling along the wall earlier. The fella told me that a wave came over the back and filled the boat and then the motor stalled. If he was another 50 feet out in the open water this would have been a search and recovery. I would guess that he was between 18 and 22 years old. He asked me if I would go out and help him retreive the boat. The coast guard had a tricky time getting him the first time. There was no way. 

One thing that I will always remember is that while I was covering the boat and strapping it down I watched him get in his truck and drive past with only the trailer attached while I was thinking how lucky he was.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Heard from another party that was out there that night and said the guy was back-trolling. The engine died... before or after he took one over the stern is not clear. 

He was close to the wall... lucky him.


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## Chucky (Apr 6, 2006)

Thank you Hook for setting me straight. Like I said I thought the flag was the same as a flare. So, If you have motor problems use a flag but if is more serous like sinking or medical or something in that nature shoot a flare. Maybe thats why they was looking at like that. 

Yes I should get schooled. Believe me I have tried to get into one of them Power Squadrons boat class but aether the dates are not possible or the classes are to far away. I have had them come out and inspect the boat. All you have to do is call. I think April is the next one. 

Yep you're right krusty. Thats how I am learning by reading everything I can find and talking to others. Believe me I have learned allot on here from allot of great people. But..........end of story lol


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## Fish-Crazy (Dec 1, 2006)

Chucky said:


> Thank you Hook for setting me straight. Like I said I thought the flag was the same as a flare. So, If you have motor problems use a flag but if is more serous like sinking or medical or something in that nature shoot a flare. Maybe thats why they was looking at like that.
> 
> Yes I should get schooled. Believe me I have tried to get into one of them Power Squadrons boat class but aether the dates are not possible or the classes are to far away. I have had them come out and inspect the boat. All you have to do is call. I think April is the next one.
> 
> Yep you're right krusty. Thats how I am learning by reading everything I can find and talking to others. Believe me I have learned allot on here from allot of great people. But..........end of story lol


Check this one out!

http://www.boat-ed.com/oh/index.htm

Tight Lines!


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## smallie75 (Dec 9, 2005)

I won't post what I really think about the matter. I'll keep that one tucked away! But I will say this! It's not the first, and won't be the last! It's not the size of the boat you put on Erie, it's the thought you put on it! 

Do you all remember not long ago when a very experienced Erie guy rammed his BIG RIG into a break wall out West? It wasn't the size of the boat, at some point he made a mistake and paid a price, luckily not the ultimate price.

This was a good post all around, and this site needs these posts to better educate us all on what can really happen, and not take anything for granted.

Here's one thing I do religiously! Before every trip on any body of water, I go through a mental checklist, if one thing is out of place or just doesn't feel right I resolve the issue now! It's all percentages, I can only control so much, but what I can control, I do. This decreases the odds of accidents and keeps me in control until the odds are against me, at that time, my experience comes into play which will ultimately determine the overall outcome.We can only further educate each other on our personal faults, and bad decision making, so that in the future we can lesson the chance of incidents such as this.

Also for anyone that hasn't read the post about Night Time Fishing started by DONKEY, I advise you do! It's threads like these that are most important on this site! Anyways, I'm tired from a long day of kids crying, face stuffing, crappy football games, and having to clean up after this day of thanks! And while I'm at it, I'd like to personally thank the NFL for it's AZZ backwards deal with the Colts game tonight! I have NFL network but couldn't watch the game. 

Almost forgot------Thanks to the TROJANS, in the heat of battle you never broke or came apart! GO BUCKS!!!!!


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Good reference Virgil. Thanks for the post.


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## Fishers of Men (Jul 29, 2005)

as defined in NAVRULES:
Rule 5- lookout
* EVERY VESSEL SHALL (WILL) AT ALL TIMES MAINTAIN A PROPER LOOKOUT BY SIGHT AND HEARING AS WELL AS BY ALL AVAILABLE MEANS APPROPRIATE IN THE PREVAILLING CIRCUMSTANCES AND CONDITIONS SO AS TO MAKE A FULL APPRAISAL OF THE SITUATION AND OF THE RISK OF COLLISION.
***everyone on board is considered a lookout said:


> Can boat alone? No, technically the operator can not be the "proper" lookout. The operator cannot study guages and such and still lookout ("at all times") at the same time unless he has more eyeballs. I made a post a while back about this and what would happen if an incident occurred and you went to court. First question asked is who was the lookout. It cannot be the operator. But it isn't enforced much on the water.


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## [email protected] (Jul 5, 2006)

chucky , thanks for the offer.
this is the kind of sportsmen we need more of. 

not the kind we seem to have now in this generation.
what happened to the old school ways.


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## Fishers of Men (Jul 29, 2005)

Great Virgil,
Here's another one guys:

http://www.boat-ed.com/cgi-local/exam/practice.cgi?st=ohu


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## Fishers of Men (Jul 29, 2005)

Chucky said:


> Like I said I thought the flag was the same as a flare. So, If you have motor problems use a flag but if is more serous like sinking or medical or something in that nature shoot a flare. Maybe thats why they was looking at like that.
> 
> Yes I should get schooled. Believe me I have tried to get into one of them Power Squadrons boat class but aether the dates are not possible or the classes are to far away. I have had them come out and inspect the boat. All you have to do is call. I think April is the next one.


Chucky, if you have motor problems at night _or_ in restricted visability who is going to see the flag? There are light signals besides flares and flags, also sound signals. Everyone should learn these. Here is a link to the power squadrons at home course since you said you were interested and cant make the classes. If you search the USPS site there is a place to enter your zip to find the closest classes also.
http://www.usps.org/newpublic2/boating.html


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## duckman (Sep 18, 2004)

Fishers of Men said:


> Can boat alone? No, technically the operator can not be the "proper" lookout. The operator cannot study guages and such and still lookout ("at all times") at the same time unless he has more eyeballs. I made a post a while back about this and what would happen if an incident occurred and you went to court. First question asked is who was the lookout. It cannot be the operator. But it isn't enforced much on the water.


Its ok to interpret the law but that is the is the dumbest law I have ever heard of, for a small vessel, with an unobstructed view all around the boat, and can make quick course corrections to avoid an on water incident. Does it make sense for a 100 ton vessel sure!

My wife likes to think she is the "look out" while am I operating the vessel (Yukon XL) but she is lousy at spotting deer for example. As the operator I still must be able to see the issue and make a course correction. If we get into an accident am I going to say sorry officer my spotter did not warn me.

How on this green earth is this different on the water on a relatively small boat?

*I am the operator and I take responsibility for my actions/decisions and their impact on myself and others. Period. You can't fix stupid and you can't legislate a fix either.*

IMO, This guy had every right to be out there on his own even if he probably should not have been under those conditions. If this is the law (I am in the process of verifying) it should be amended at the very least.


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## Fishers of Men (Jul 29, 2005)

There is a lot of weird stuff in the laws, especially since homeland security is over it now. Take for example if you look at the rules on right away where a vessel constrained by draft pertains to outside the demarcation line and not inside. What the heck, he has plenty of water out there and less inside. A bunch of it doesn't make sense. There definatly is room for corrections/changes. A vessel being anything that floats...How are you going to put that lookout on the innertube? These posts have been talking great lakes and the ocean here remember. The "inland" waterways, reservoirs and such are different and so are western rivers which is west of the mississippi and all its tributaries, yes thats including the ohio has it's own set of rules.
Plus each states "laws". Do you know that when you are trolling that is not classified as fishing? You are just a boat under power. There is a difference in ROW between the 2. Not until you have a fish on are you restricted in manueverability. This is where many get confused on right aways. the order goes like this: Rule 18 Responsibility between vessels.
1 overtaken
2 not under command
3 restricted visability
3A constrained by draft (only in international waters)
4 fishing
5 sail
6 power boats
7 seaplanes, yes they are last because as soon as they hit the water, they are now a power driven vessel.

for those that missed the previous posts by myself and others here is the site again, the definitions need to be read.

http://www.boatingsafety.com/colregs.htm

Maybe we should consider a sticky here on these things?


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## Chucky (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks for all the links guys!!! I have been on a couple of them and one I haven't seen before. That practice test was sure fun!! LOL 

I try to look for situation's before hand. I will check and recheck before we go. Then in line to launch I recheck. 

My buddy says I am a compulsive worry wart. lol For instance, When I back down the ramp my boat will shoot off like a rocket if I undo the wench. Been there done that. Now I can not back down that ramp unless I get out an touch the wench about 3 times to make sure its locked. Even tho I have a 2ft safety chain on now after that fist time I still have to. lol 

recemoose, Hey thanks for the positive karma bro!!!!!! I have had 2 guys ask and they left there #'s as well!!!!! Are you next? LOL Just to know if those 2 guys are out there and willing to help if needed makes me feel allot more comfortable. Thanks guys for the interest and counting on me.

When I was out there the first thing came to my mind was....who in the hell do I call now? I have never been broke down on a lake before. It's not like calling AAA and then walking over to a coffee shop to wait. Now I have a emergency call list. I have the tow #, the insurance co #, All the Coast Guard #'s from Cleveland to Toledo on board and in my cell.


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## BlueMax (Dec 3, 2006)

smallie75 said:


> I won't post what I really think about the matter. I'll keep that one tucked away! But I will say this! It's not the first, and won't be the last! It's not the size of the boat you put on Erie, it's the thought you put on it!
> 
> Do you all remember not long ago when a very experienced Erie guy rammed his BIG RIG into a break wall out West? It wasn't the size of the boat, at some point he made a mistake and paid a price, luckily not the ultimate price.
> 
> ...


Not good when your trojan breaks...that can cost lots of $$$$


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

BlueMax said:


> Not good when your trojan breaks...that can cost lots of $$$$



Well, it wasn't me...!


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## Juls (Apr 12, 2004)

bkr43050 said:


> In Dixie Chicken's post he guessed around 12 foot. It wouldn't take much to capsize a boat that size out there.
> 
> I agree that you contacting them in your situation was a good thing. I may very well have done the same. There is a difference in verbal contact with status and whereabouts versus flares. Nevertheless if he felt that he was in danger then there is not a problem. I was only mentioning that so that consideration can be made as to whether there is physical danger involved or not. The Coast Guard is certainly there to serve everyone when in need but they don't want to be called out to non-emergencies.


You keep mentioning that he was on the rocks, and in your eyes you're thinking that means "on shore". No one has clarified if he was indeed "on shore", or if he was on the rocks of the breakwall out in front of Cleveland's harbor.

He WAS in danger if he was on that breakwall at night without a flashlight, wet, cold, and shaken up from capsizing his boat.

If he was on the breakwall and not on shore, which is what I think happened, then he absolutely did the right thing by sending flares up in the dark.

Kudos to those that selflessly helped a stranger in need. You've just built up your "good karma" chips, to be redeemed by the "Fish Gods" the next time you hit the water. 

I can only hope to be so lucky if something as unfortunate were to ever happen to me.

Juls


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## Fishers of Men (Jul 29, 2005)

Chucky said:


> Thanks for all the links guys!!! I have been on a couple of them and one I haven't seen before. That practice test was sure fun!! LOL
> 
> I try to look for situation's before hand. I will check and recheck before we go. Then in line to launch I recheck.
> 
> When I was out there the first thing came to my mind was....who in the hell do I call now? I have never been broke down on a lake before. It's not like calling AAA and then walking over to a coffee shop to wait. Now I have a emergency call list. I have the tow #, the insurance co #, All the Coast Guard #'s from Cleveland to Toledo on board and in my cell.


Very good, but...What if you have no signal to the phone if you get out 20 mi. and or it goes dead?


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

I've been out 10-12 miles and lost signal at times. Marine Radio only way to go.


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## duckman (Sep 18, 2004)

Ruling:
Proper lookout, means that you must maintain a proper look out and does not prohibit an individual from operating a boat alone nor does it imply that he/she is in violation of this ordinance or negligent by not having a "spotter" in addition to him/herself with the exception of Skiing with an observer 1547.15 ordinance which supersedes this...

I am not an attorney so I can not quote the law but this is coming from watercraft enforcement officer

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501:47-2-05
_
1501:47-2-05 Proper look-out required.
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

No person shall operate or permit to be operated, any vessel on the waters in this state, in violation of this rule._


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## smallie75 (Dec 9, 2005)

A vessel must have a lookout!

My vessel has a lookout--ME! 
any questions to this LAW?

Can someone catch my vessel, kill switch is still snapped, throttles is down, and there is no lookout on board. Man not again!!


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