# dismissed ? ?



## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

... He tested at 0.012, which is not enough to charge with drunken driving...
...Kinlin said he had the gun in his vehicle for safety reasons because he is a former prosecutor and has a concealed carry license...
...Judge Gary Bennett dismissed the charge...
http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/2011/10/20/news/mj5170616.txt
...


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

What's the question here?


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

It seems to me, that anyone that has been drinking and has a loaded weapon in their vehicle should lose their CCW.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I&#8217;d say based on the law, you&#8217;d be wrong. He did nothing wrong that I can see, and it should have never gone as far as it did. I&#8217;d say there was a reason the trooper didn&#8217;t show up. This is just based on what I&#8217;m reading there. There could be more to it, but I don&#8217;t see any laws being broken. Why should he lose his CCW because he had a beer or two? The law says he&#8217;s still legal to drive, that should say something.


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

OK thanks for your input. Looks like you are correct.

ORC 2923.16(E)
(D) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle if, at the time of that transportation or possession, any of the following applies:
(1) The person is under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or a combination of them.
(2) The persons whole blood, blood serum or plasma, breath, or urine contains a concentration of alcohol, a listed controlled substance, or a listed metabolite of a controlled substance prohibited for persons operating a vehicle, as specified in division (A) of section 4511.19 of the Revised Code, regardless of whether the person at the time of the transportation or possession as described in this division is the operator of or a passenger in the motor vehicle.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Guns and alcohol don't mix...


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

sbreech said:


> From what I've read, he SHOULD have lost his ccw license for going into an establishiment and DRINKING whilst having his loaded firearm. That's a big no-no, and illegal. ..


Youre making the assumption he took a gun in to the Elks. If he left it in the car he did nothing illegal, except maybe an improper turn.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

M.Magis said:


> Youre making the assumption he took a gun in to the Elks. If he left it in the car he did nothing illegal, except maybe an improper turn.


I retracted.  I read the article the second time. And leaving a gun in a car is a very DUMB thing to do, but not illegal.


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## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)

sbreech said:


> Guns and alcohol don't mix...


Have any statistics to back this claim (myth) up?

I'll give you a hint - check the states that do allow you to have a couple drinks while you are carrying. Let me know if those states report an increase in negligent or accidental discharges or otherwise law abiding citizens loosing their temper and suddenly becoming psychopathic murders after having a beer or three.

The bottom line is that phrase is one the anti's drummed up while resturant carry was being passed. It is nothing more then a feel good line. There are no statistics to back it up, and yes there are several states that allow you to consume while carrying.


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## 7thcorpsFA (Mar 6, 2010)

MLAROSA said:


> Have any statistics to back this claim (myth) up?
> 
> I'll give you a hint - check the states that do allow you to have a couple drinks while you are carrying. Let me know if those states report an increase in negligent or accidental discharges or otherwise law abiding citizens loosing their temper and suddenly becoming psychopathic murders after having a beer or three.
> 
> The bottom line is that phrase is one the anti's drummed up while resturant carry was being passed. It is nothing more then a feel good line. There are no statistics to back it up, and yes there are several states that allow you to consume while carrying.


 Agree 100%. I don't drink very often, but if anybody thinks I'll go around looking to shoot someone after a few beers they are not dealing with reality. When I was a kid, many years ago, before anti gun brainwashing was around, my family would have get togethers on the weekends and it revolved around safe shooting and drinking beer. My dad and uncles would not tolerate unsafe shooting and stood over us kids while we were target shooting. Nobody ever got crazy or even came close to shooting anyone. My cousin got stabbed in a bar over a girl. If he had a way of defending himself he would not have nearly died in the hospital. I have another relative who was drinking one night. He got out of his car and was jumped by a group of thugs and was beaten and left to die. If he had been armed this would not have happened. If you have a CCW you should still be able to defend yourself no matter what!


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

sbreech said:


> I retracted.  I read the article the second time. And leaving a gun in a car is a very DUMB thing to do, but not illegal.


I agree leaving a gun is a car is a DUMB thing to do. But under the current law, If a permit holder goes to church, to the doctors, to the library, to anyplace that has a no guns signs posted, *BY LAW THEY HAVE TO LEAVE THE GUN IN THE CAR. *

And this is not a post about the so called fear of such places. It is about a permit holder that has errands to do and is excising their civil right, while driving, but is then forced to leave the weapon in the car.
That is why the restaurant carry bill was so important. And why further changes need made in the law so guns are not left in cars. Every time a gun is left in the car, it has to be drawn from the holster, unloaded, and secured. Then reloaded and holstered to drive again. That is a lot of excess handling of a firearm during a day of errands.

The safest place for the weapon is to remain in the holster and under the permit holders control.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

FISNFOOL said:


> . Every time a gun is left in the car, it has to be drawn from the holster, unloaded, and secured. Then reloaded and holstered to drive again. That is a lot of excess handling of a firearm during a day of errands.


 When disarming there are no requirements that the gun be unloaded when left in the vehicle.


FISNFOOL said:


> The safest place for the weapon is to remain in the holster and under the permit holders control.


Agree 100%!!


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

BigV said:


> When disarming there are no requirements that the gun be unloaded when left in the vehicle.


This may have changed when the law was updated as part of the "Restaurant Carry"

But prior to that it had to be unloaded.


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## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)

FISNFOOL said:


> This may have changed when the law was updated as part of the "Restaurant Carry"
> 
> But prior to that it had to be unloaded.


No, one with a CHL never had to unload their firearm.

Only those who did not have a permit were required to unload their firearm while in route to their destination.

And ofcourse long guns, including magazines, must be unloaded while in a vehicle.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

FISNFOOL said:


> This may have changed when the law was updated as part of the "Restaurant Carry"
> 
> But prior to that it had to be unloaded.


As far as I know there has never been a provision in Ohio CCW law that requires unloading your firearm while leaving it in your vehicle.
MLAROSA is correct...If you are open carrying your firearm _and_ you DO NOT have a valid CCW license you must disarm and unload your weapon (including speed loaders, magazines) prior to entering a motor vehicle.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

BigV said:


> As far as I know there has never been a provision in Ohio CCW law that requires unloading your firearm while leaving it in your vehicle.
> MLAROSA is correct...If you are open carrying your firearm _and_ you DO NOT have a valid CCW license you must disarm and unload your weapon (including speed loaders, magazines) prior to entering a motor vehicle.


I do not have a scanner, but in the "Photo Copy" of the CCW booklet we were given at the training the first year the law was in effect, it clearly stated that the gun had to be unloaded and secured in a locked glovebox ....etc. 

During my CCW class our instructor( a Sheriff's Deputy) kept using the phase "unload and lock-up".


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## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)

Please post word for word what the booklet says.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

FISNFOOL said:


> I do not have a scanner, but in the "Photo Copy" of the CCW booklet we were given at the training the first year the law was in effect, it clearly stated that the gun had to be unloaded and secured in a locked glovebox ....etc.
> 
> During my CCW class our instructor( a Sheriff's Deputy) kept using the phase "unload and lock-up".


It's been many years since I took the required training and I don't recall being instructed to unload my weapon each time I left it in my vehicle, but I have been wrong before...

It would seem odd to require someone to load/unload each time they left their firearm in their vehicle. Since I carry a 1911, in condition 1, I would need to remove the magazine, take the safety off and clear the chambered round. Doing this inside a vehicle (and possibly several times each day), seems unsafe to say the least.

I don't claim to know everything, but I try very hard to keep up on the ever changing Ohio CCW laws.


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## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)

I have tried locating an attorney generals booklet from 2004-2005 and am unable to do so, which is why I asked him to post word for word what he is reading.

I'm betting it is in reference to open carry, or carying a weapon with out a permit (going to the range etc). Probably makes reference to the illegal transportation of a firearm. 

When the law was passed in 2004 a person with a CHL actually had to keep the weapon on their person _*and*_ in plain sight ie the buckeye tuck. This was later changed and had the plain sight portion removed and added "or in a glove box" (paraphrased obviously). When restuarant cary was passed another modification was made to the law and now there are no restrictions on how a firearm is transported by a person with a CHL.



> *Mark Drum, legislative chairman for the Fraternal Order of Police of Ohio*, said the bill was "ramrodded" through the Senate. He said the bill would allow drivers to carry guns in a quick-draw holster on the dashboard, or *"they can twirl the gun in their fingers while they're driving down the highway." *


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

I looked for my old 2004 booklet copy and could not find it. I was going to scan it at my son's.

The unload and secure in a locked glove box etc was one of the test questions.

Could be this instructor was passing on his own view point. We did not get a original printed booklet, we received a photo copy. I saw lots of such comments on the Net after goggling the subject. Looks like a lot of the instructors back then were teaching the same thing. I do know that the instructor mentioned that if not on your person and left in the vehicle, the gun was no longer under your concealed carry permit and fell under the firearm in a motor vehicle clause of the law previous to concealed carry.

*All this may have been just his opinion, but since others on the net have stated the same thing, it could have been part of the confusion in training going on at the time. *

Just because the booklet did not say you had to unload a gun if left in the car, does not mean that the existing law did not apply if the gun was left in the car, seemed to be the opinion at the time. Seems that since a lot of the course trainers were law enforcement, could be it was the OPOTC viewpoint.

I can only guess why it was taught if not the law. But is was taught to unload and secure. Anyway it is a moot point now, and we have hijacked this thread long enough.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

BigV said:


> It would seem odd to require someone to load/unload each time they left their firearm in their vehicle. Since I carry a 1911, in condition 1, I would need to remove the magazine, take the safety off and clear the chambered round. Doing this inside a vehicle (and possibly several times each day), seems unsafe to say the least.


Ditto, that is why I felt what was taught was ridiculous and unsafe.


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