# Deer #'s are down, whats up with that???



## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Is it the new check in system???? Or is it the corn not getting cut down? Or is it the large bag limit's? I think you know what I think....


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## mpd5094 (Jun 20, 2005)

Probably everything you mentioned. Although the youth gun season numbers are up from last year.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

The turkeye #'s were way down also... But I am sure there is a good reason for that... I am sure it isn't the fact that it is $24 a tag + the new check in sysyem... That would be to easy of an reason... But you never no I may make up is kind of info..LOL

Who-dey, gonna get you on the second round!!!! LOL


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## Eric E (May 30, 2005)

mpd5094 said:


> Probably everything you mentioned. Although the youth gun season numbers are up from last year.


They are up, but look at the county
by county breakdown. The top four or five counties are way up, but a lot of the rest are not. Where I hunt (Washington) is top ten, but we are down 12%, just like the bow kill.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

wildman said:


> The turkeye #'s were way down also... But I am sure there is a good reason for that... I am sure it isn't the fact that it is $24 a tag + the new check in sysyem... That would be to easy of an reason... But you never no I may make up is kind of info..LOL
> 
> Who-dey, gonna get you on the second round!!!! LOL


Yep, just a bunch of slobs in Ohio poaching deer and turkey. Deer numbers were down last year too. But wait ..... we didn't have the auto check in system last year.


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## KWaller (Oct 3, 2010)

I am getting shocked by what people are sayin about #s, on my areas in perry county the deer numbers have nearly doubled!
Kyle
HPT
CP

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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

It was the mass acorns thats why Or atleast thats what the DNR Say's about last year... LOL This year it must be all the standing corn...

Really, when you look at the history of kill's of deer compared to mass acorn years. The kill's go down considerably... So I do by the acorn explaination. I have looked at several graphs showing evidents of it.

Last year there was a 11+%(around that) drop from the 2009 season now it is another 11% lower from the 2010season. That puts us at almost a 25% drop from 2009. What is the reason? I for one think it is partly/mostly the new check in system. But I feel other factors play a part. There Isn't a mass acorn crop. So the # should be back to the 2009 #'s.. But they are not they are 22+% lower. 

Any other thoughts on the matter???????

I am not going to say it is all poaching but I know it play's a part.. $24 for a turkeye tag is IMO all little high... I am sure that the new tag system is getting take advantage of... The hatching has been very low the last 2 years.. So on the turkeyes low #'s are without a doubt explainable...


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## Red1 (May 3, 2011)

I think a big reason for the lack of deer we're seeing lately is, at least in our area, coyotes are killing the fawns, and also some of the older deer. This is not only my observation but that of several of my neighbors. A few coyotes have been killed around here, but not nearly enough. We started noticing a lack of young deer a couple years ago and it's just getting worse. Without young deer, the whole population suffers.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Numbers were down 8% last year from what I read. Sales for hunting license are down by over 10,000 from last year too. I travel over 17 counties during the week and most corn is cut in the areas that I see. Large acorn mass only makes you hunt different. Many people did not change their tactics therefore did not get a deer. That doesn't mean the deer numbers are down just the deer killed.
As far as turkey numbers go it rained like crazy this spring. Of course this has been discussed before but it seems like you want to keep puting blame on people just hunting without tags or license. $24.00 to hunt spring and fall for turkey is not too much. Many people drink more than that every weekend.


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## Eric E (May 30, 2005)

KWaller said:


> I am getting shocked by what people are sayin about #s, on my areas in perry county the deer numbers have nearly doubled!
> Kyle
> HPT
> CP
> ...


Not where I hunt down there. The deer sightings are down.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm sure there are deer being poached, but I see the results as "the system is working" - it was made very clear to anybody with eyeballs the goal is to reduce the number of deer in OH. It won't stop and they will look for another 10% reduction next year.

They won't make changes until we see much lower harvest numbers than the previous 4-5 years.....they don't want the herd this size. And it only takes a reduction in tags for a season or two to add numbers.


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## fordman (Sep 23, 2010)

I blame the corn and the weather. Only deer I have seen this year are heading into standing corn at daybreak and don't return until after dark. The trailcam tells the story too. I thought they all disappeared until i got into my stand well before light on an early morning hunt. A group of us went down to Woodbury for a week Nov 14-18 and it was 70 degrees and beautiful when we got there, then rain, then cold and windy when we left. only 1 guy saw 3 doe and they were in a thicket bedded 10yds from him. It was way too thick to even try a shot. I hope that someone runs a nice buck to me during shotgun but in northwest ohio we have a gloomy week of weather and theres no way the neighbor will have the corn off by then. Anyway good luck and be safe.


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

You may think there are fewer deer but i think alot of deer and turkeys are moving closer to where all the easy feed is. The last two bucks i have taken were full of corn. Hmmm no corn crop present any either area i hunted. There are so many people both slob hunters and unassuming folks feeding nowadays and those deer get used to that easy feed and are not far from it bedding and enjoying the corn. A person who calls themself a hunter should not have to feed game and try to get an advantage by feeding. There is a guy over by Athens who does such to pattern big bucks!! I live in a residentual area and i know of four families with feeders in a 1/2 mile area. My neighbor, as nice as she is, has a tote full of corn she puts out for the animals. I put my trail cam out back for a day and a half and had 35 pics all but 3 of deer. There are 40 houses in the area where i live and the deer don't starve and they love it there. Just my opinion


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

That's why makes it so hard for non-feeder hunters in urban ares. If you rn't feeding it's tough there are people that feed and huntover it everywhere. Not to mention the non-hunters everywhere.. tough to pattern.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

I hunt southern Clermont Co. Deer numbers are way down from last year. We just aren't seeing much. There are alot more people out hunting these last few years and they shoot everything that moves. Years ago only 1/2 the properties had hunters, now everyone has someone hunting.


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## rutnut245 (Jan 18, 2009)

There is no doubt numbers are WAY down in my neighborhood,it's the worst that I or my neighbors have seen and I've lived around here 50 yrs.It's also no doubt the number of deer killed by coyotes,their numbers are way up and no matter how many we kill or trap the more we see.

Also,there is a hunt club from Toledo leasing a lot of land around here and every deer they see gets shot at.I've found everything from fawns to very nice bucks that were shot but not recovered.Last year I watched them load a very small 6 pt in the trunk of a car.He'd been hangin around our yards all year and couldn't have weighed 80 lbs.Not exactly QDM practiced by these sportsmen.

Why does the state/DNR want the herd reduced? Is it carrying capacity or pressure from insurance companies.I would have to think it's the latter rather than the former.JMHO.


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

I agree with with you on post. There seems to be so many people out there in the woods that just want to shoot something. I don't know if it is because they are not good hunters or if the peer presure is getting to them. Folks it is ok not to harvest a deer and tell your buddies you hunted hard and had a good time. But as we all know there are those "********" who hassle their friends because they did not get a deer. You know them and they are probably related to the bully who is picking on your kids at school. They used to call it deer camp but i have to say some should be called beer camp. As far as turkey population goes i think there are good numbers but less gobbling by older birds. There are so many hens the older gobblers don't have to sound off to get with them. If you here a couple gobblers sounding off in an area there are proably a half dozen others that won't make a peep. Stay safe next week and try not to be run over by a 4 wheeler or hit in the head by an aluminum can or beat up for being in someones favorite spot.


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## Carpn (Apr 5, 2004)

I see it like this. Three seasons ago they basically raised the bag limits statewide which resulted in a very high harvest. Each yr since has seen a decreased harvest.. As long as they have liberal bag limits in an effort to reduce the herd I would expect the harvest numbers to drop every yr.


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## DCopas (Jul 20, 2011)

I have hunted most of my life, and I see it like this; I think the ODNR has gotten overly greedy with offering large bag limits, and saying that they are doing it all in the name of herd management. My brother lives in Kentucky, and a resident "sportsman" package for him cost $95. This includes two deer tags, two fall turkey tags, two spring turkey tags, fishing license, trapping permit, and a trout stamp, not to mention that their parks are cleaner and they work more for the sportsman by purchasing farms for public hunting land. Add all those tags up and figure out what it would cost in Ohio. I also think that the leasing of land has been a detractor to a lot of the long term hunters. Many people don't have the money to lease, and in Adams County(where I am from), after they killed all those big bucks a few years back, you aren't getting land to hunt unless you lease. Coyotes are horrible and the state needs to step in and do something about it. My dad and I found 2 fawns in one day on the same property this past spring that had been killed by coyotes, one so fresh the blood wasn't even congealed. The checking system will only promote poaching in Ohio, in my belief. I have pretty much hung up my bow and quit hunting at this point, because I no longer get enjoyment out of it. When I started bow hunting, I never saw another person, and if I did, they respected my hunting area and stayed far enough away to allow us both to hunt in peace. Sorry for venting, but it is just my feeling right now, and I know I am not alone. Several of my buddies feel the same way and if ODNR doesn't start regulating these things (leasing, coyotes, tag packages) they aren't going to have a future generation of hunters. Honestly, it's why I stick to fishing anymore.


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## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

On some of the private lands i hunt ive seen both increases and decreases. Yotes, poaching, the crops and weather all play a part in the numbers. You also have to toss in the factor that the license numbers are also down. For me ive been happy, ive taken 2 and still have one tag left for next week. 

So if the numbers are down what are people to do? Stop deer hunting for a year or two and kill all yotes and predators they see?


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## Angler ss (May 15, 2008)

More tags = More $$$$ and the state of Ohio is broke. I live in Erie county the whole county only killed 917 deer last year and the state still has us as a 2 deer county.We should be a 1 deer county. I got drawn for Ravenna me and my buddy never even seen a deer. I have friends who worked the Plum Brook hunt and said the number there where way down also. The state wants people to pay for the drawing and buy a tag they don't think about the hunters or deer just the $$$$. Same for the walleye and ducks should have cut the limits years ago but the state wants to sell license and duck stamps if folks could only catch 2 walleye or bag 2 ducks some folks would stop hunting/fishing and the state don't want to lose the $$$$. I don't think any county needs to be a 6 deer county and think it is CRAZY that it is legal to jump through hoops and kill 18 deer in ohio. I don't think many guys are but why should it even be legal to kill more than 6 deer total in the state.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Angler SS,

The $$$$ form license and deer tag sales do not go to the states general fund, they stay within the DOW as it's primary funding, so no help to the states budget deficit.

The state does not set migratory limits or determine the seasons, the federal boys do that.

The state does not generate income from the sale of FEDERAL duck stamps, again only federal.

DCopas,

What would you have the state do about the coyote population?

Do you know how much private land has been purchased in Ohio for public hunting areas?

Do you really think that the state should regulate what a private landowner does with his land? Leasing

You praise KY in one area but did not mention the fact that they have had the automated deer check system successfully in place for many years. You cite this same system being introduced into Ohio as detrimental


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

DCopas said:


> not to mention that their parks are cleaner and they work more for the sportsman by purchasing farms for public hunting land.


Is it Ky's parks you are talking about or is it the Federal Land located in Ky. I've been to some Ky parks that are truely a dump, the campgrounds were nasty. Ky is very fortunate to have alot of National Forest land within it's borders and those parks are managed by Ferderal divisions.
I'm not putting Ky down, I love the state and vacation there but lets get the ownership correct. Between the Corp of Engineers, LBL and Daniel Boone National Forrest (I'm sure others) that's alot of ground.


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## Angler ss (May 15, 2008)

The state is looking at 30% cuts for the 2012 ODNR budget the ODNR needs all the money they can get. I never said anything about the general fund. I understand the fed's get the money from the fed stamp but the state gets the money from the Ohio Wetlands STAMP. It is also in the hunting regs that waterfowl hunting is governed by BOTH the state and fed's. It is also a fact folks who hunt and fish don't like to see bag limit cut or increase in license fees the ODNR needs to have enough balls to make the right decisions on the limits of fish and game not what makes us happy.


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## dmgonfishin55 (Jan 8, 2009)

Angler ss said:


> . I don't think any county needs to be a 6 deer county and think it is CRAZY that it is legal to jump through hoops and kill 18 deer in ohio. I don't think many guys are but why should it even be legal to kill more than 6 deer total in the state.


I agree 18 is a bunch of deer maybe 12 too many, but 6 tags is fairly easy to fill in some parts. I'm not bragging I just feel like the area I live in (Licking County) is loaded with deer and 6 limit hasn't changed a thing in last few years as oppoosed when it was a 2-3 deer limit. It may actually even be better now, but it's hard to tell because with time in the woods I have become better. I have a friend that lives in Ashtabula and he said the deer population went from non-existent to booming in the last 6 years. IDk, the state must be doing something right. Maybe location specific management needs to be taken one county at a time? IDK, i know nothing when it comes to that.

And CarpN very good point, going to have to agree with you on that one.


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## DCopas (Jul 20, 2011)

crappiedude said:


> Is it Ky's parks you are talking about or is it the Federal Land located in Ky. I've been to some Ky parks that are truely a dump, the campgrounds were nasty. Ky is very fortunate to have alot of National Forest land within it's borders and those parks are managed by Ferderal divisions.
> I'm not putting Ky down, I love the state and vacation there but lets get the ownership correct. Between the Corp of Engineers, LBL and Daniel Boone National Forrest (I'm sure others) that's alot of ground.


Yeah, you are correct there. I never really thouhgt of the ownership issue, and I am grown up enough to realize when I'm wrong.


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## DCopas (Jul 20, 2011)

DCopas,

What would you have the state do about the coyote population?

Do you know how much private land has been purchased in Ohio for public hunting areas?

Do you really think that the state should regulate what a private landowner does with his land? Leasing

You praise KY in one area but did not mention the fact that they have had the automated deer check system successfully in place for many years. You cite this same system being introduced into Ohio as detrimental 

Lundy, 

I think the first thing the state could do about the coyote problem is admit they have one. I have never seen any document anywhere from ODNR that would admit this. As for public land purchase, maybe where you are from but I continue to see farms come up for sale down my way and either Nature Conservancy or Museum of Natural History buys them up. Guess what then?? You guessed it, no hunting. I think the state should strip the "tax exempt" status from farmers leasing land. I think a few of them would be less inclined to do it then. You are talking about poor folks down this way, and they don't have the money someone from your area for instance has to lease land. The state has allowed an unbalanced system to dominate the whole area down here, and it needs to be put in check. And yes, the telephone system has been working for years down in Kentucky, but we are talking Ohio here and Ohio's government could screw up a wet dream. Besides, I know what people in my neck of the woods will be doing. The only thing that kept them from poaching big deer before was the thought of the game warden being at the check station and seeing the rifle hole. Now, they don't have to worry about that do they?


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

An open season year round sort of hints at coyotes being problematic..


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Mushijobah said:


> An open season year round sort of hints at coyotes being problematic..


A year round open season has been in effect long before half the state knew coyotes even existed in ohio....

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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Another issue with the leasing, people don't just lease land to be hunted. Alot of farmers lease land from other farmers so they have more land to farm. Many farmers are getting out of it as a business so they lease their farms to neighboring farmers that wish to utilize it. You can't penalize these people because you don't want someone hunting on th property next to you....

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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Angler ss said:


> The state is looking at 30% cuts for the 2012 ODNR budget the ODNR needs all the money they can get. I never said anything about the general fund. I understand the fed's get the money from the fed stamp but the state gets the money from the Ohio Wetlands STAMP. It is also in the hunting regs that waterfowl hunting is governed by BOTH the state and fed's. It is also a fact folks who hunt and fish don't like to see bag limit cut or increase in license fees the ODNR needs to have enough balls to make the right decisions on the limits of fish and game not what makes us happy.


Isn't everyone whining about the state not doing something to make the people happy??? If you think there's crying now, wait till the state shows how much "balls" they have.....

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## Guest (Nov 29, 2011)

For what is worth...I would like to see the state a little more time on upland game! They put the majority of there focus on deer and turkeys...which I know is the money maker but it would be nice to see a little more effort in the pheasant area!


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

*Birddog37 * YES!!!!!!!! I have been saying that for years!!! It was the money from the upland game bird/small game that Helped get the deer and turkey est. here... I don't understand why they don't give back a little to them





Lundy, You are calling the Ky system a success? I guess it depends on who you are talking to...



*The success was our old system.* The GW at a check-in station every now and again kept people honest that and the store workers checking each deer... 

Even some Gw's (1's I've talked to) understand and share the same feeling's
They like to say that it is "easier on the hunter's"

What I do like is the 3 tag's you get Temp, Meat, rack.


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## shorebound (Apr 26, 2008)

Here's my two cents for whats its worth on the low deer numbers.... For starters the economy is down.... People want to keep their families feed and a deer can feed a family for a while.... Another theory is pressure people read magazine articles about Ohio being a big time producer of big bucks so you have more and more people coming here to get their Ohio monster and with more pressure the deer tend to hole up in mass numbers in small areas where they don't get bothered from humans...... The final theory/factor I believe is poaching rings in the last 5 years how many big operations have been busted at least 5 that I have heard of and I'm sure there's numerous smaller poaching operations that you don't hear about..... The food scenario i dont think is a problem everyone and their bother is planting food plots and factor in all the natural and agricultural food there's plenty out there for them to eat.... As far as yotes go they may eat deer but I can guarantee you you will find more mice rabbit and road kill in a yotes diet their opportunists if something's already dead their going to eat that before they waist a lot of energy on chasing a deer down don't get me wrong I shoot them when I see them and they don't need to be in Ohio but that's another rant.... 
Again just my two cents but that's my hunch 

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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

It makes very little sense to me that folks to blame a new checking system for the low deer numbers when it has not even been in effect for one year. I don't think most of the folks who are commenting on the low numbers are simply going by the reported numbers. Most everyone I talk to have been saying there are fewer deer and the numbers are just supporting that. I agree with Carpn's take on the high bag limits that were implemented a few years back. It was around that time that the harvests began to drop. I think that the DOW got what they wanted with the bag limit increase. They managed to turn the corner on the population. I just hope that they continue to manage it in a way that maintains a good population of deer in the years to come. I did not totally buy the DOW explanations last year for the overall decline and the numbers thus far for this year seem to throw more doubt toward that theory. Consecutive years of declining harvests suggest to me that the herd is smaller and not due to their theories (mast crop, weather, etc.).

The numbers on my immediate property appear to be considerably lower but I do hear some shooting when out hunting which suggest that some folks are seeing deer. I just am not. I am still forming my view and game plan on how to approach the harvest for the remainder of this season and in years to come on my property.


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