# Looking for advice on a new kayak



## KTkiff (Jul 30, 2004)

I've had a SIT Old Town Dirigo for about 8 years now. It's done pretty much everything I have asked it to do. I take it out on Lake Erie some, but mainly fish the inland lakes and rivers. I've been looking around for something I can take my two small kids in. The Nucanoe has intrigued me, but I am thinking at 77 lbs it may be hard getting on top of my car. I also wonder about it handling the mouth of the Niagara where we go once a year in a pretty strong current. I would also like to stay less than 1k, and it seems with the Nucanoe after seats, longer paddle, etc, I'll be up around 2k. Is there something I am overlooking with a SOT? I am basically looking for something that can handle Erie, stable enough to stand up in, and take my kids out. I am looking forward to your responses.


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## Zorro (Jul 22, 2013)

Check out the Native Ultimate series. http://www.nativewatercraft.com/boat_overview.cfm

I spoke with a guy who owns one at the Outdoor Expo in Dayton over the weekend. Stated that he puts his two kids (one in front, one in back) in his all the time. He said it's stable enough to stand in it as well.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Sounds like you are looking for 3 different boats and only one is a kayak.
I just don't see any kayak doing all of that and if it did it would be well over $1000 and you would not be able to cover much water on big lakes.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

My buddy beat this into my head until i FINALLY paddled his....14 foot DOWNRIVER canoe.
Just like yaks, all canoes are not made the same. The downriver canoe is nothing short of awesome.
You can solo paddle it easily. Mine is as maneuverable as almost any fishing kayak on the planet. And you can grab your kiddies and stick them in it and have all the room you need.
I guarantee you, a 14' downriver style canoe will handle better in fast current than your Dirigo. (My good buddy has a Dirigo. Nice boat, BTW.) And they are have unbelievable secondary stability.
Here's an interesting blurb:
http://www.madrivercanoe.com/conten...ts/page/explorer_series/Explorer_overview.pdf


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## FishFrenzy89 (May 18, 2009)

perception sport 12.5 caster angler SOT
is only about 600$ and is light weight..


as for stability I would add some outriggers for extra stability, which should allow you to stand up.

Just a thought.


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## Zorro (Jul 22, 2013)

FishFrenzy89 said:


> perception sport 12.5 caster angler SOT
> is only about 600$ and is light weight..
> 
> 
> ...


I have this perception and it works well. I'm not sure I'd stand in it and I doubt you'd get two kids in it.


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## FishFrenzy89 (May 18, 2009)

sorry missed the two kids part. 

maybe check out some tandem SOT's but it will start to get expensive and you will be in the same ball park as the Nucanoe.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

A KAYAK, capable of holding you AND two kids, under 77ibs, capable of handling swift current....and under $1,000.
I don't think it exists.

14' downriver canoe.
Come paddle one and be a believer. It excels in every category, except it's not called a kayak.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Bubbagon said:


> 14' downriver canoe.
> Come paddle one and be a believer. It excels in every category, except it's not called a kayak.


How would that do on Erie? I have no experience there but I would really want some scuppers if I was on Erie.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

rustyfish said:


> How would that do on Erie? I have no experience there but I would really want some scuppers if I was on Erie.


I have no idea. I don't think I'd take a kayak or canoe on Erie unless I was in a back bay, and the weather was perfect. I ASSUME that's what most people are doing when they talk about kayaking Erie.
He says he takes his Dirigo out on Erie. I DO know that the canoe would handle it just as well as a Dirigo.
But if I need scuppers; as in the waves are crashing over the gunwales of a canoe...that's the wrong place, wrong boat, scuppers or not.

If dude finds a kayak that can handle big water like Erie, can handle three people, can handle swift Niagara river current, you can stand in, is under 77 lbs, and under $1,000....I'm definitely buying one.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

rustyfish said:


> Sounds like you are looking for 3 different boats and only one is a kayak.
> I just don't see any kayak doing all of that and if it did it would be well over $1000 and you would not be able to cover much water on big lakes.


I agree.


FishFrenzy89 said:


> perception sport 12.5 caster angler SOT
> is only about 600$ and is light weight..


Not a 3 person yak.



Bubbagon said:


> A KAYAK, capable of holding you AND two kids, under 77ibs, capable of handling swift current....and under $1,000.
> I don't think it exists.
> 
> 14' downriver canoe.
> Come paddle one and be a believer. It excels in every category, except it's not called a kayak.


Might be the deal right there, except for Lake Erie.



rustyfish said:


> How would that do on Erie? I have no experience there but I would really want some scuppers if I was on Erie.


Erie, are we talking about 300' off shore or two miles off shore?



Bubbagon said:


> If dude finds a kayak that can handle big water like Erie, can handle three people, can handle swift Niagara river current, you can stand in, is under 77 lbs, and under $1,000....I'm definitely buying one.


I'll be in line behind you with my checkbook.  

Big Tuna is my only thought, but it misses most of his requirements.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Zorro said:


> Check out the Native Ultimate series. http://www.nativewatercraft.com/boat_overview.cfm
> 
> I spoke with a guy who owns one at the Outdoor Expo in Dayton over the weekend. Stated that he puts his two kids (one in front, one in back) in his all the time. He said it's stable enough to stand in it as well.


I own an Ultimate, and it would be the last boat I would put on Erie. They are nice, but a decent lake chop would fill it with water before you could say, "blueberry pie."


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## KTkiff (Jul 30, 2004)

Thanks for all of the responses so far. That's why I posted this to get a feel for what you guys think. I know it's probably a stretch to get EXACTLY what I want for under a grand, so I guess I have to prioritize.

If I'm going to drop over a grand on a new kayak, it has to be able to take the kids. Not necessarily both need to go at the same time, but at least one of them (If it's not justifiable in my wife's eyes, that 1k kayak will turn into a 3k kayak pretty quickly because she'll go out and even the score). I don't go miles out on Lake Erie, I'm not good with distance on water, but It's definitely not more than a 1/2 to 3/4 mile off shore. Granted, I do a lot of paddling within that stretch, but I am really not that far out. I see MANY kayaks out by me recreationally. And I'm pretty conservative on when I go out. I definitely won't go out in anything more than 2 footers. When speaking of the Niagara, you have to remember it's at the mouth where I fish. It's not like I am fishing Devil's hole or anything. So to put things in perspective, here's my priority list.

1. Big enough to take 1 or 2 SMALL kids out
2. Able to handle Erie-not more than 3/4 mile to a mile max-always ideal conditions if I venture out onto the big pond
3. Able to stand
4. Not TOO heavy-I am 5'7 150, under 40 years old, still in good shape-not impossible to put a heavy yak on top of my sedan
5. Forget what I said about current, I won't be taking the kids to the Niagara and will still have my Dirigo, if needed

Oh, and another thing in regards to price..I am definitely not opposed to buying used


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Here you go: http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/7808...ferralID=3ac7a9ae-2fb9-11e3-a8bc-001b2166c62d

To add kids and a wife, just add sections:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnbXYSEcrPc[/ame]


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## KTkiff (Jul 30, 2004)

Has anyone had this one streamstalker just showed? It looks pretty darn interesting.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Interesting is definitely one adjective.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

Bubba, What brand is your canoe? You are starting to sell me on the canoe. I was dead set on getting a coosa next year but my kids are getting at the age where I can start taking them with me so I wouldn't mind having a canoe instead. But I want one that can be a solo also.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

I have a Mad River Explorer 14. But it's discontinued and you can only get them used. (Pretty sure).
http://www.madrivercanoe.com/product/index/products/discontinued_models/explorer_tt/explorer_14_tt

Stucky has a We-no-nah canoe, maybe a Prospector. His is gorgeous.

You're more than welcome to come paddle mine anytime, I'm sure Stucky will say the same. In fact, if you went to Stucky, you could paddle a Coosa and the canoe is one shot.

Canoes come in racing, touring, whitewater, expedition....but the "downriver" style is what we prefer.
That usually means a shallow V hull. Basically that you can lean to turn and it keeps you from tipping. But leaning is good.
And it always means a couple inches of rocker in the hull...another important thing if you want to be able to turn fairly quickly.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

Bubbagon said:


> I have a Mad River Explorer 14. But it's discontinued and you can only get them used. (Pretty sure).
> http://www.madrivercanoe.com/product/index/products/discontinued_models/explorer_tt/explorer_14_tt
> 
> Stucky has a We-no-nah canoe, maybe a Prospector. His is gorgeous.
> ...


Damn a coosa and a canoe. Some guys are living the dream.


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Soon to be adding the old town predator mx to my fleet, lol.

The solo canoe is a wonderful boat, mine is not a boat, it's a piece of art, lol, $1700 after shipping. You can stand and walk around, has extreme rocker, even more than the mad river boats, both can do serious white water with right equipment. Flat water if you load the boat right they track well, wind always sucks. Thing with the canoe's the more weight the better to a point, me and bubba use them for over night boats, can bring all your gear, and a large dog or kid.

I just don't see a kayak that will fit your needs, a jack of all trades boat does nothing good. That's why I have several boats now, the coosa is my fishing machine, the canoe fishes great as well, very nimble but not as good as the coosa.if I'm humping gear, the canoe is excellent,I can still fish, have my dog and turn on a dime. The mx will be great for low water and slower water floats, and for my son, plus since we float year round it's a great cold water boat due to its stability

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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

http://www.canoekayak.com/files/2011/03/wpid-mad-river-legend-16-rx-canoe.jpg

Here's the mad river boat, the ones bubba and pasta have they don't make anymore, this legend 16 is very close, and my"art" boat

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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

StuckAtHome said:


> I just don't see a kayak that will fit your needs, a jack of all trades boat does nothing good. That's why I have several boats now,...


Jack of all trades, master of none.

I think many people go through this when they first get into paddle sports, I know I did. We want the "best kayak" for all situations. We quickly find out it doesn't exist. That's why we start to buy more, my fifth in 4 years will probably appear next summer.

And damn you guy talking about down river 'art' canoes. I'm a sucker for new things, especially high quality, well designed and built stuff. STOP IT already!


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

His canoe really is a beautiful boat.
Delivery times may vary...


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

I love my Coosa and Remix, but I'd sell both to get the lightweight version of Stuckys canoe. It weighs like 37#.

Unf.

If I ordered it now, I'd have it by next season too.


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## Crawdude (Feb 6, 2013)

I'll chime in to vouch for the down river canoes. I have a Mad River Legend 15. It turns on a dime, will eddy out easily, it's pure joy on the river. I am wanting to get a Coosa when I'm able to, all those fishing specific features look hard to beat. The Legend 15 is serious fun though.


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## Zorro (Jul 22, 2013)

Seems like the Jackson Coosa is getting a lot of love here. Anyone with thoughts on the Native Slayer 12?


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Tackle-addict said:


> I'll chime in to vouch for the down river canoes. I have a Mad River Legend 15. It turns on a dime, will eddy out easily, it's pure joy on the river.


I think the Mad River Legend 15 is what they replaced the Explorer TT with after it was discontinued. 
Pure awesomeness.


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

Zorro said:


> Seems like the Jackson Coosa is getting a lot of love here. Anyone with thoughts on the Native Slayer 12?



I was torn between the Coosa and the Slayer. Only real difference I saw was internal storage. I have a GTI that I yak out of and being able to store gear inside the yak as opposed to my car made the difference to me. So Coosa I went.

Don't think either one is wrong. 

Having the Coosa though, I can't imagine the Slayer being any better.


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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

Wenonah makes the boat after you order it, mine took 3 months to get, if they don't like the way it turns out, they start over. Mine was shipped with 4 other boats, mine was cheapest of all by a grand, and mine was $1400 with$300 shipping.

As I've said, you won't find a down river fishing kayak that does what the coosa does, even the predator mx I'm buying won't. If your a primary river guy, it should be the first boat on a very short list

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## Zorro (Jul 22, 2013)

shwookie said:


> I was torn between the Coosa and the Slayer. Only real difference I saw was internal storage. I have a GTI that I yak out of and being able to store gear inside the yak as opposed to my car made the difference to me. So Coosa I went.
> 
> Don't think either one is wrong.
> 
> Having the Coosa though, I can't imagine the Slayer being any better.


Good info here. I liked the Slayer because it didnt have internal storage. It does have an optional lid for the front compartment. I'd probably get the lid and remove it when on the water. My current kayak has a waterproof compartment but I can't reach it while on the water...too unstable.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Zorro said:


> Good info here. I liked the Slayer because it didnt have internal storage. It does have an optional lid for the front compartment. I'd probably get the lid and remove it when on the water. My current kayak has a waterproof compartment but I can't reach it while on the water...too unstable.


Agree, I thought I wanted internal storage until I spent a lot of time in the kayak. I never use my internal storage. I never cared for the slayer before for that reason but now I think it would be ideal.


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

I honestly think I'd be just as happy with the either one. 
I do love my Coosa though.


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## KTkiff (Jul 30, 2004)

I tested the Nucanoe yesterday and did not like it. It has it's advantages for a bigger guy due to it's stability, but it is a tank and will be hard to get on my car. I also didn't like how sensitive it was to my casting. I was almost doing doughnuts based on where I casted. Standing up is a little overrated, too. While it is nice to stand up from time to time, I don't think I would really be doing that on Erie too much.

With that being said, I have been doing research and I think the Malibu Stealth 12 really will fit my needs. The gator hatch will allow me to take my daughter out. Anyone have any experience with this kayak? 90% of the reviews are great.

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## StuckAtHome (Apr 29, 2004)

I'd take a hard look at the new old town predator 13, with the high sides and stability might be a great big water boat.

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