# 9/12-9/13



## RiverRat

Another awsome time on the local river!
Yesterday, got off work(last day) at 7:15am and started fishing at 9:00am and ended at 2:30 with 11 carp landed and 4 lost to an unseen snag. Smallest fish was 12 lbs. biggest was 19.13 lbs.
Used sweetcorn, roasted corn, method balls and sinking fish pellets as chum using catapults and spod to deliver on target.


Today i set rods out at 6:45am in the same spots as yesterday....left hand rod straight out at 25 yrds., right hand rod at a 45` angle, 25 yrds also(Dave if your reading this....i was aiming my right hand rod toward the point of that big gravel bar on the other side..i fished your HIGH water spot)I lost some BIG FISH both days...just cant stop them!!!

I had my rods in and started catapulting...with my normal 2 pouches of sweetcorn, 2 of pellets, 2 method balls and spodded 3 times with roasted corn over each rod, I normally will do this every 45mins. or so. I had finished my left hand rod and was chumming my right hand rod when it blasted off with a fast one toner on the Delkim alarm...(not 15 mins. after being cast out).....this action kept on til around 9:00am then it was on and off til 12/noon when i left.

Today ended with 14 fish landed and 6 lost to a few again unseen snags!!!
Smallest fish, 8 lbs. biggest 21.9 lbs.
I was running my normal everyday set up of 4500BTR's and 12' 2.75TC rods, 12 lb. main line.........This set up normally is enough to tame carp in the ole river, but this spot has loads of sunkin snags in 10-12' of water. Im fishing a flat next to this deeper water and they'll run on bottom straight into the snags. Im switching my set up for next trip...going with my Ohio river set ups of 13' 3.25TC, Big Pit reels and atleast 14-15 lb. test main lines.....normal set ups wont let me put enough side pressure to steer fish away from the snags or tighten the drags to tight..or i'll snap line.

Oh well looks like not any more fishing this week as i have to work 3 of my 4 days off...GEEZ US!!! 


Well off to take a nap...gotta rest up for work tonight,

Scott


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## The Kernel

Sounds like a great day out. Try some 50lb Power Pro and give 'em some stick...


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## RiverRat

Thanks,
Ive tried a lot of the "super braids"...i just dont like it for a main line..only leaders. Ive been using 80 lb. Stren braid and its awsome. I did nothing but snap lines on hook sets because of the no stretch. Also i dont like turning my drag down or using a softer rod...to stop snapping lines 
Also to first spool my reels with mono, then the braid, then use a shock leader...no thanks.
With my #4 Ashima RD2 hooks i would end up pulling the hooks...no different than breaking line..same end result.

I need something tough..but will give some .
15 lb. test Berkley big game should do the trick on the snag fishing quite nicely.

Scott


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## leckig

nice, nice, smallest fish 12 pounds, geez, this is something! I have never seen a bigger carp... yet!
Have you ever fished at Clinton-Como Park? I am thinking to go there tonight for a while. I fished there twice, first time I lost 4 fish due to snag, second time - not even a bite. Let me know!


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## truck

Wow sounds like fun,any pics?


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## RiverRat

Greg, no ive never fished there...i try to stick to out of the way spots for the most part. Less anglers, more fish.
Truck, yes i do..have'nt had a chance to upload any due to working my butt off.

Well time for a shower and head back to work.


Scott


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## GMR_Guy

it sounds like your having some decen tluck. I may be up in the Columbus area in a couple of weeks and may hit some of the various lakes.


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## The Kernel

I went to the braid mountain (gander??) a non-believer.....and came back a complete convert. The clutch on the 4500'Bs is so refined you don't need to worry about hook pulls. I have had only one since switching to braid and that was when I was deliberately seeing how much pressure I could put on (it was a small fish)..Its the way to go with those biggies..


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## PAYARA

braid is over-rated and over priced.only serves
me in one application= shockleader!

IMO-its disadvantages greatly outweigh its advantages!


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## RiverRat

Very well put Greg, i agree with ya 100%.

I use "super" braid only for hooklinks(80 lb. Stren) and feature finding..other than that its not worth the hassels...the Con's out weigh the Pro's big-time.

If it was the best line on the market i would of been using it for many years now..like i said ive tried most of them in all forms, for me personally co-polymer is the best all around line...i just need a few spare spools in higher pound test for these snag swims.

Good to hear from ya Greg....dont stay away too long man, i enjoy your posts.

Scott


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## bkr43050

PAYARA said:


> braid is over-rated and over priced.only serves
> me in one application= shockleader!
> 
> IMO-its disadvantages greatly outweigh its advantages!


 Braid would actually do the opposite of shock leader. A shock leader provides cushion for the force exerted from the fish. Braid would provide none. I personally can see no advantage to using braid as a leader unless you wanted to use a smaller diameter line to present the bait/lure.


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## The Kernel

Well, it sounds like you really know what you are doing losing all those fish....mono rules huh?!

Gregg, you will be able to afford some when you get a job mate...


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## PAYARA

dang strait i can't afford it  ,$30+ per reel + a backing...
i'll stick with the nylon,thanks!

even if i had the dosh i wouldn't spool up with it,i don't
like the feel of it while playing the fish,really the main
reason i don't use it.other reasons i don't use braid......

damages fish
hook pulls (even at range)
cost is crazy
its alot more visable than nylon
looses its color 
hard to break off on snags (alot of fun at range i am sure)
if it tangles or backlashes (alot more fun)

i could probably think of a few more reasons,but iam not going to  
thats enough,i think.however if i ever do spool up with braid (can't
think of a reason why i would though)it won't be some generic over-
rated braid like Power Pro  ,it will be Spiderwire (original),Stren (good
braid),or Whiplash by Berkley. :B 

IMO-this talk of Power Pro being the best braid is a bunch of horse dung!

PS-Scott,what do you know of buying tackle in Japan and China?buying
it there i mean.


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## RiverRat

Kernal...how many carp in Ohio over 30lbs. have you caught on that 50 lb test braid??

I have 3...all caught on 12 lb test. Gamakatsu G-power..rest my case.

I certainly wouldnt use braid in my fishing swims..too much cover...that junk breaks to easily on snags, no abrasion resistance.

Greg, give me a shout via PM..i have a connection in Japan that can hook you up...


Scott


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## The Kernel

Its not junk...its vastly superior in most snaggy applications. It never breaks! It can be cut though..but that too is rare if you take other precautions. I've had it 'saw' through a Christmas tree on one occasion...mono would have lasted seconds. 

Think of all the thirties you have lost that you could shout about?!

Its up to you...


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## bkr43050

I am not a full proponent of braid in all cases but like many others I see the benefit in certain situations. If I were doing my fishing for carp or catfish (tightline situations) then I would see much less benefit in the braid over mono. I just think that it is very narrow minded for someone to say that because they don't like or use braid that it is "junk". If so then the manufacturers of the product are rally pulling the wool over a lot of people's eyes.




PAYARA said:


> dang strait i can't afford it  ,$30+ per reel + a backing...
> i'll stick with the nylon,thanks!
> 
> even if i had the dosh i wouldn't spool up with it,i don't
> like the feel of it while playing the fish,really the main
> reason i don't use it.other reasons i don't use braid......
> 
> damages fish
> hook pulls (even at range)
> cost is crazy
> its alot more visable than nylon
> looses its color
> hard to break off on snags (alot of fun at range i am sure)
> if it tangles or backlashes (alot more fun)
> 
> i could probably think of a few more reasons,but iam not going to
> thats enough,i think.however if i ever do spool up with braid (can't
> think of a reason why i would though)it won't be some generic over-
> rated braid like Power Pro ,it will be Spiderwire (original),Stren (good
> braid),or Whiplash by Berkley.
> 
> IMO-this talk of Power Pro being the best braid is a bunch of horse dung!
> 
> PS-Scott,what do you know of buying tackle in Japan and China?buying
> it there i mean.


 I don't agree with most of your reasons for drawbacks to the braids.

damages fish - I don't see that one unless the fish wraps up int he stuff. If that is the situation then a mono/flouro leader would eliminate it.

hook pulls (even at range) - It does require a different discipline in using braids as one cannot tug for all he is worth and allow the stretch of the line to compensate. But once you get a feel for it I really don't see that as a factor.

cost is crazy - This one to me is the most inaccurate statement. I can buy a filler spool for about $12-14 versus mono at about half of that cost. The difference is that the braid will last several times longer than mono. There is no UV breakdown of the product like mono. I don't see why anyone would spend $30 to spool up a reel. A filler spool is all that is needed so if that does not fill up the reel spool then keep something else on as core filler on your spool. I know a lot of folks use the braid and only put half of the filler spool on so they get two or even three fills from a purchase.

its alot more visable than nylon - Once again if that is an issue use a leader. Many feel that the line sight factor on many fish is overrated. I am not convinced one way or the other in most conditions. I feel that the bigger issue is the feel and presentation.

looses its color - To me is really a non-factor. And wouldn't it losing color make it less visible?

hard to break off on snags (alot of fun at range i am sure) - This seems to be an advantage in my opinion. But once again if that is an issue tie a leader of slightly lighter test.

if it tangles or backlashes (alot more fun) - If you believe this one then I don't believe that you have ever used braid. I have saved my lines from many, many messes that my kids put on the spool or on up the line without needing to cut. I will say that I do have a few more times where I get loops or small tangles in the braid but they always work their way out. I am so often amazed at how easily it comes undone. The key is to not tug at the mess but to carefully work it free. With mono once one of these nests occurs you may as well instantly cut the line because the line memory will ruin that section with kinks. And by cutting the mono you will be buying more again sooner.


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## bkr43050

For those who want to try the braids I suggest that you do not view the Power Pro as an "overrated" braid compared to Spiderwire and Fireline. I use it on a couple of my baitcasters and in my opinion it is superior to the other two. It lays smoother and casts like a dream. I don't really know how it compares on spinning reels. It used to be more expensive but it is now pretty much in line with the rest of the braids in price.

I may try the Gamakatsu G-power that Scott mentioned if I come across it somewhere. I see it on line on a site but I did not find it on the Cabelas site. I was hoping to find it there so that I could use some of my Cabelas Visa points up.


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## RiverRat

Brian, one must be UP on the Euro style of carping before ya try to disprove Gregs reasons.

One, brid itself DOES harm carp, its fine dia. gets under thier scales and cuts them off..this is part of thier protection...true Euro carpers protect the carp by using a few feet of either tubing or a very large dia. braid.45lb test leadcore is the most popular.
See us real carpers care about the fish we pursue..reason for the large, soft mesh fish friendly nets, landing mats, weigh slings, ect.

Visibility...carp see far beyound most species abilitys.

One of the most popular shockleaders over in the UK is either Fox Armadillo(braid) and Kyston Quicksilver(braid)...i know MANY USA carpers that use 100 lb. test power pro as thier shockleader. So trust us it is a VERY good shockleader, just in our personal tests is JUNK as a mainline for our fishing styles....and NO i do not fish "tight lined" like you think...my line might be tight to the sinker..but thats for best bite detection....but they can easily pick up a bait and run with minimal resistance..its called a duel drag BAITRUNNER spinning reel.


Ever hear od WIND KNOTS...yup just like the old fly fisherman...you can get plenty of wind knots while casting long range with heavy leads...i guess i should explain what WE mean by distance fishing....100-150 yrds...not 50'...LMAO.

Ive had my share of tangles with super braid..yea really easy to untie....heck i couldnt even see where the loops where all going and i have 20/20 vision..and it sinches down on itself very easily.

Cost...well this might excape you too...i fish with BIG PIT syle reels..to give you an idea my Shimano holds 600 yrds of 12 lb test dia line.....yea rethink you cheap factor so more...maybe on a 200 yrds caps. reel it might be..but again this takes me back to...fill first with mono..then braid..blah...blah..blah.

If you fish braid in cover you have to step up to 50..80..even 100 lb test to handle the abrasion of the snags...and against rocks...ive yet to see a super braid that can last have as long as a half the size dia. mono line....rocks are the worst with braid.
Open water lakes....heck i'd be fishing 10 lb. mono for that...specially for fish under 25 lbs..lol.
I just cant see the reason to over power your rod and reel with lines of that size...i want the line to fit me and my gear...not have me adjust my style or losen drags...be careful not to rap the tip and cut my rod up.

If braid is so good then why fish 50 lb test break strength? Why not just use just use 20lbs. or less? OHHHH...thats because the super fine dia. wouldnt handle big fish, stand up to any snags, ect.thats why you have to go 10x the break strength to have a chance...funny!


Only way i would need a braid is if i fished a lot of lakes and fished near lilly pads..then the fine braid would cut through them..but again..its more hassel than its worth.

I do NOT fish for light biters..like Eyes, ice fishing, ect...there you need very sensetive lines......when a big carp takes the bait theres no mistaking it!

Its all good Greg, just keep doing what your doing and landing lots of carp...im with ya man.

Greg, You should stop down sometime and i'll take ya to some spots and give you a very good chance at a few 30+ river fish...you'll never fish "still" water again bro.
Also the big Buff invite is always open to ya.
Scott


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## RiverRat

Brian,
You will NOT find G-Power at either Cabelas or Bass Pro...its a hard to find locally line...i of course have many sources and buy in BULK...my fishing reels laugh at "filler" spools of line..
The next best thing is McCoy Mean green.....i do believe Cabelas sells it..very top notch line, i highly recommend it too.


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## bkr43050

RiverRat said:


> Brian, one must be UP on the Euro style of carping before ya try to disprove Gregs reasons.


 That is exactly what I meant by different fishing situations. You make a great argument for not using it for terminal rigging on carp.


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## bkr43050

RiverRat said:


> Cost...well this might excape you too...i fish with BIG PIT syle reels..to give you an idea my Shimano holds 600 yrds of 12 lb test dia line.....yea rethink you cheap factor so more...maybe on a 200 yrds caps. reel it might be..but again this takes me back to...fill first with mono..then braid..blah...blah..blah.


 I would not dream of spooling a reel like that up with braid all the way. But I would not respool the whole reel every time no matter what the line of choice was. You really only need to respool the portion that you are using most frequently. The line further to the center never gets used except for big runs. Therefore you should be able to spool that with a line of choice that will last a long time (not deteriorate) and tie to it with every respool.


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## bkr43050

RiverRat said:


> Ever hear od WIND KNOTS...yup just like the old fly fisherman...you can get plenty of wind knots while casting long range with heavy leads...i guess i should explain what WE mean by distance fishing....100-150 yrds...not 50'...LMAO.


 Don't worry I have heard of wind knots. But I can honestly say that I don't remember the last time I have experienced a "wind knot" on my baitcasters because of the way they unwind. I agree that it is a bit more of a problem on spinning reels. And if I were doing the type of fishing that you are (100-150 yards casts) then I may rethink my line of choice. But since my fishing situation calls for shorter casts (50'...LMAO casts) then that is not an issue. Once again every situation has its own needs and each line has its own positives and negatives. I just believe it is very misleading to say that one is always junk.


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## bkr43050

I have to admit that I was looking at the line debate in a whole fishing scenario. I remember now that this thread is really a "Carp Discussion" thread and thus the views expressed here can be specific to that type of fishing. Since I am in no way a "carp fisherman" my views should not be applied as such.


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## PAYARA

Well,no need for me to reply,think my man Scott has 
said everything  good posts Scott!

Scott,iam still trying to get down there to fish with you.i would
LOVE to get down there on some of that fall action :B i think
i may be able to pull something off.

i will PM you later on today or in the next couple of days
regaurding the tackle.thanks


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## The Kernel

There are many renowned Carpers from the US and around the world that successfully use braid as a mainline and/or hooklength. To say it is junk is dismissive of their expertise  and is more revealing of the person that said it than it is a serious comment on the qualities of the line itself. I can't be bothered :G to demolish the secondhand arguments against braid...but the point about wind knots? They are caused by poor casting technique.


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## leckig

I just installed braided line on one of my bigger rods which is a spinning rod I use for carp too. It worked miracle on this heavy vegetation when chasing pikes on Fletcher. We will see how the carp will like it. I will use only short mono leader.


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## cwcarper

Why all the "talk" over why one is better than the other?? It's one thing to give the pros and cons of each line, but to call the braid junk when I know lots of carpers better than me that seem to do fine with it...it all comes down to preference. I've tried Power Pro for both mainline and shock leaders and didn't like the feel of it in either situation...but if I was losing big fish I'd give it a try again...even if to prove that it doesn't work.

As far as catching 30 lb fish in Ohio...I don't see how that proves anything. My PB was a 30+ lb common caught in Ohio on 10 lb cheap mono on a zebco 33 and a 6'6" rhino rod when I was 14 years old. Took me at least 45 minutes to land that fish in a rocky quarry, at night, but I managed to land it nonetheless (even if it did strip every gear in that reel  ). Just because I know I can land a 30 on that type of line and equipment doesn't mean I'd recommend it. Heck...I know of plenty of high 30's caught mostly on bass/walleye gear, but I sure wouldn't want to try it that way.


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## RiverRat

"Since I am in no way a "carp fisherman" my views should not be applied as such."
Thanks Brian for realizing that, the BASS forum is a few sections above this one.


Greg.....all I will say is, you have an open ended invite..anytime you can make it, let me know so i can be sure to be off work and we'll fish our butts off.
Also, cool on the Japan tackle..i can give ya a direct e-mail address to an American dealer that now lives in Japan and deals in tackle...hes hooked me up tons of times!!!

OK..since my thread has no turned into an old Braid vs mono discussion...heres what i should of originally put the Kernals suggestion about me using braid.

Thanks for your suggestion, i will stick to the line i use now, but will step it up a few lbs. 

Now to the remarks about top notch anglers here and over there using braid as a main line...we'll theres even more "pros" that dislike braid as a main line and will not use it either....its what works for the ANGLER...braid just does not hapen to work with me as i feel the Pro's dont out weigh the Con's...IMO.

So in this instance i say braid SUCKS and is JUNK for me and i would NOT recommend for a "newbie" to start using braid because putting on 100 lb test super braid still aint going to land you more fish..remember im in this "carp scene" to catch lots of fish, big fish and feel a great fight...braid doesnt cut it because i dont fish LAKES and heavy vegitation areas....WOOD/ROCKS are a lot different the WEEDS.


Thanks for all you replys guys....made for a fun thread.

See ya all on the water sometime,

Scott


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## PAYARA

Mark-iam still trying to figure out where it was stated
that ''braid is junk'' prior to your last post?if 'I' thought
it was complete junk i wouldn't have been useing it for
the last 4 yrs as shockleaders.but in my opinion it is a
poor mainline.and overall is IMO over-rated as being ''
superior'' to other none braided fishing lines.

also no one is attacking briad hooklinks as braid is used 
in this application by everybody,at some point,reguardless 
of mainline choice. 

here is some food for thought for everybody...

on braided mainlines abrasion and snag resistance,why is 
it that i see these renowned carp anglers that faithfully fish 
with a braid mainline putting on these long 30-40lb nylon leaders 
or will ditch the braid completely,to fish mussle and snag infested
waters?some won't fish without the nylon leader in any situation?
is this due to the great abrasion resistance of braided mainlines? 

also why is it that braid mainlines are banned on a number of UK waters?

just some questions :B


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## PAYARA

also a word about weed fishing and braid...

I often use to consider trying briad in this situation,
but have since 'done the math''and dropped the idea 
completely.

As braid will cut through a certin amount of weed,at the 
end of the day it will do no better than mono in the same situation.

Fishing in serious weed groth is risky,this is one situation where 
hookpulls are regular with mono let alone braid.but i firmly believe 
more fish would be lost with a braid mainline.you have the no-stretch combined with the certin build up of heavy amounts of weed around 
the lead and rig,and then add the force of an displeased 20 on the end  ...hooks will pop out very easy!


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## The Kernel

Greg

On THE most tackle hostile river in the US...the St Lawrence...just about ALL the regulars (Globetrotter etc) use braid, and mostly Power Pro at that. They don't bother with the shock leader anymore, reasoning there is no point if you had a 40 yard shock leader why not save yourself a knot ( another potential weakness) and go straight through. I'm not sure what you mean by 'over rated'?? but it is worth thinking about the fact that for 12lb diameter you can have FIFTY pound test, it 'over rates' itself really.... I know that if I am hooked up to the fish of a lifetime, which is what I hope for every time I go out ...and one day I will be, I'd feel that little bit more confident to be using braid....

The UK waters have banned it because fish there are caught time and time again, anglers use far lighter test strengths which apparently can harm the fish. Many waters have banned braided hooklengths for the same reason also, so if thats what you guys believe you can sling all your Kryston etc in the trash (or better still give it to me  ).. I have NEVER seen this though and I used braid over there as fine as 3lb test and saw no harm done.


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## PAYARA

i know TDP dosent use a leader,but he is an exception.
not to mention his tactics are rather out of the ordinary if
you compare it to most fishing methods.he fishes quite abit
from boats/canoes/kayaks and stalks/float fishes for alot of 
biggies.plus gods seldom need equipment and rigging that us
mortals require


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## PAYARA

Also,what i mean when i say 'over rated' is all this jazz
from people on the forums and the companies themselves,
that make these claims that braid is 'FAR ' superior than the
old nylon.i personaly can't see this.and if there is a braid that
is proven to be superior in every catagory,i surely can not see
it being Power Pro.i have used this braid as a mainline and as 
a shock leader.IMO its not in the same class with Spiderwire or
Berkley or Stren braids.

only one area i can see that braid is superior is strength to diameter.


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## ohioiceman

Why do you need 600 yard capacity reels when all you fish is rivers? 150 yard casts? maybe on the Ohio it would be needed or maybe Maumee bay/river. Just got back from floating the Scioto from Circleville to Sunfish Rd at Chili,marked some good holes,caught some nice fish, don't see anywhere you would need to cast 150 yards to fish and most parts of it are not even that wide. On another note if you canoe by Chili right past the third bridge,can't remember the name of the street I know the first street is 35 then Bridge St. so it would be the next bridge going south, on the right is a metal tunnel you can go through looks like there are some mobile homes or a sales park for them by the road,anyway this backwater is loaded with carp,had a blast stalking them from the canoe. Now for line, I fish 3500's I know there small but I fish erie and it's not very big so I don't need BIG PIT reels. I like braid in the weeds,in my experience it doesn't clump weeds on the line it cuts right through them,even took the tops off some lilly pads and those things are tough.I also switch rods when fishing weeds and go with a rod with a light first half and good backbone in the lower half and loosen the drag a bit. Having said that I would never use braid when fishing the main lake where I know my line will be laying on rocks and zebra beds and who knows what else. Oh yeah and what is a wind knot?


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## RiverRat

Iceman...Big Pit= Big Spool Dia. = longer casts, bigger drag surface, more cranking power...ect, ect,ect....not really sure why your questioning my tackle?

If i can afford $200+ reels..i will buy them..been there still doing that.


Cant believe this brais thing is still going>>>>>>>???Most action ive seen from the carpers in this forum since East Harbor...LMAO.




Scott


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## RiverRat

Greg, the guys up on the Larry do fish braid..they fish 50 lb. test PP then put on a long 100 lb. test PP shockleader.......100 lb. test.....LMAO...geez ya'd think there shark fishing on the open ocean.

I just cant see why you have to step up so high in lb. test with braid...the same anglers wouldnt have a need to go over 20 lb. test mono...but they'll easily strap on 50 lb mainline..100 lb. shockleaders to fish zebra muscle waters....heck i bet my normal 30lb. test mono shockleader would be just fine....thicker dia....more abrasion resistant then braid.


Scott


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## RiverRat

Iceman, after i got home this morning i reread your post.

Ive never fished from Roundtown down to Chilli..so i have no idea what the river looks like down that way.

The spot im currently fishing is one of about 5 VERY wide spots on the ole river....some i cant cast accrossed.
I would love to fish the far margins...but again, i cant cast to them or move to that side of the river because of some areas being privately owned.

Im not fishing a creek..its a river...yes some areas are narrow...but some are very wide....is that why i bought the big pit reels..nope, i bought them mostly for Ohio River use for BOTH carp and cats. I have landed a handful of 20+ flatheads and one 32 lber. on my "euro" Big Pit baitrunner(12 lb test line)..also my biggest carp to date(36 lbs.) was taken from a private lake where the main channel was 90 yrds. from the private property i was fishing from. Yea i can reach that no problem with my 3500 & 4500 BTR's, but its much better with a big pit reel, you dont have to cast as hard and get greater distance compared to conventional reels.
Also i was fishing heavy 4-5 oz. method balls at that range...i have problems fishing at range using the method with conventional size reels.


Plus like i said...better(easier) casting, better drags,more cranking power, WAY better line retrieval, WAY less coils or twists cause by the BTR ...all around better reel than "normal" BTR reels.


I own the Shimano Big Baitrunner Long Cast & Daiwa Grand Wave 5000BR...wouldnt trade them for any small spool BTR on the market.

"TO EACH IS OWN" You use the tackle YOU like and prefer..I'll do the same, thanks,

Scott


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## PAYARA

Exactly Scott, its 50-65lb braid to a 100lb Braid leader..
the 100lb leader is the dia.of 20lb mono and still dosen't 
do all the jobs up on the 'Larry'...30-40lb nylon (that alot
of anglers use for leaders) would do so much better IMO.

i also agree on the issue of useing these 50lb+ breaking strains.
i think its over kill in alot of ways,carp are not that strong and it
shouldn't require 65lb line to fish for carp in snaggy or weedy areas

Also Scott no need to explain the big pits,they are suited anywhere
really.no matter what range..


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## ohioiceman

if you can't reach the margins get a yak or canoe,greatest carp tools ever they allow pinpoint application of chum and are great for putting soft baits at range where you can't cast them.Contact your local Gov. they have maps and lists of property owners,over the years we have secured fishing rights from 17 landowners. Just as you are amused at guys using 100# braid I was amused at 600 yard reels for carping. The Penns I use with my brother fishing for yellowtail don't hold that much.

If your biggest carp came from a private lake why do you only fish rivers?

Heck I love rivers,I'll drive across this country for good float and fish rivers but I just don't get limiting myself to only one type of water in the search for a new PB.

I like my 6500's for cats,I think it's cause I like hearing the clicker run slowly when a head takes off and I love a blue screaming it. Side note the blues at Santee are bred with freakin tornadoes every time you think you got a grip on the mouth they turn into a living whirlwind. yeah yeah I know the catfish forum is above this one,I was just saying..


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## The Kernel

Its true about big pit reels....you don't really need them for Ohio waters, they do offer some slight advantages in unusual circumstances though. It has been scientifically proven that you can can cast LESS distance with them unless you have at least a 50mm or greater butt ring (which is larger than that on most factory made rods). What you gain with the big spool you lose with the friction on the butt ring. They look nice and wow the tackle tarts though 

Greg

On some swims on the Larry you need at least a 40 yard shock leader because it is a man made water with underwater 'cliffs' that drop off to anywhere up to EIGHTY feet....when hooked the fish go over the drop offs, which are lined with zebra mussels, and sever the line. You may be right about 30lb mono being more abrasion resistant (I have never tried it) but try casting a rig any distance with a forty yard 30lb mono shock leader...! 

Braid is bloody awful for float fishing...


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## PAYARA

i can agree,a massive reel is not required for general 
carpfishing in OH or anywhere for that matter.but it can
also be said that a reel with a free-spool feature is not 
required for carpfishing in OH.
i own small reels,medium reels,and large reels.all have their
own situations in which they preform better or are a better
choice than the others..
i use the big pits for 95% of my fishing,be it close or at range.
with my new 'pits' i took a smaller approach,and went with a set
that have a smaller diameter spool but hold the same amount of 
line as my larger reels.i took this route partly due to the fact that
Mark brings up in reguard to spool size to guide size.all the guides
on my regular rods carry 40mm butt rings.havent seen a large imp-
roovement in distace as i haven't dressed them for range yet.but 
i believe it may be a sound fact.

Mark-casting a 30-40lb mono leader to range is no problem,if you
use the correct choice of knot,or better yet a taperd leader.ask
Keith T. out in CA about problems casting a mono leader to range,
he faithfully uses a 30-40lb mono leader and is well noted for his
extreme range casting.


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## RiverRat

Kernal...yup agree, with small butt rings on your rods..doesnt matter what size spool the reel is...poor casting distance will happen.
Im thinking off the top of my head that my Fox 13' 3.25 Warriors have atleast a 40mm ring? Im not sure about my 13' Shimano Techniums though? When i break down and buy the set of Century rods ive been wanting, then YES i will have the perfect long range combo....Big Pit+50mm butt ring+world record holding rods= LONG LONG range!!..lol
I truthfully perfer the big pits when im targeting big carp on big waters, fishing range. I like the drags better and the ability to take up a ton of line fast when i fish runs at you when fishing long range. I do NOT normally fish them on the scioto r. because even I feel its a bit over-kill for NORMAL carping.
I also love the fact that while on long trips to the Ohio river that i can break off many times if fishing around very nasty snags, i dont have to respool..got PLENTY of line left...lol...just try spooling up 600 yrds sometime..geez us..i made a slick tool for my cordless drill that attatches to an empty bulk spool so i can strip old line off quickly. If you've ever stripper old line off a reel using the old "hand over hand" method, you'll know you wouldnt want to do that with 600 yrds.....i did it 2 times, never again ever.



Its kind of funny...as Greg and You said....big pits are not needed, as Greg said, neither are BTR reels,but lets go further, long rods, bite alarms, rod pods, brollys, spods, catapults...everything each one of us 3 uses is not REALLY needed. Each of us uses what we use because we WANT to and enjoy it. A simple spinning rod&reel will get the job done....but we tend to take it far beyond that dont we...lol

For the record about braid, Kernal, i will not tell you braid completely sucks..as i favor super braid as my prefered hooklink of choice. I find my self hardly ever using a mono hooklink anymore...only on "simple" days of carping when i leave all the normal nick-nacks at home.

I love braid for its suppleness and easy of tieing different style carp rigs. But i personally do not prefer it for mainline...the reason why is again just my own personal likes and dislikes of it as a mainline...thats all. 

Normally for shockleader, i use 30 lb test berkley big game, with 6 wraps on the reel spool, the full length of the rod, down to the spod...maybe 20-25'. This is only on my Spod Rod, which an 11ft. St. Croix surf rod, Shimano Ultegra reel(same dia. spool as my LC) and i know for a fact the butt ring on this rod is way bigger than 50mm..more like 60-65mm.
If St. Croix made a surf rod with the action for carping i liked, i'd use them instead of the UK rods....every surf rod i own from them has BIG butt rings..thats why they are well know for thier casting ability......but dont ever forget though, its not only the dia. size of the reel spool or butt ring on the rod..the dia. of the line...the quality of the rod, the taper.....but also the CASTER and his ability to cast. Knowing many styles of distance casting certainly doesnt hurt..WINK!



I'd be more than happy to meet up with any of you guys and we can catch some carp and do a little "casting" to see if the big pit/warrior combo can cast as far as the smaller BTR reels or not...i know the result of my own comparison, maybe others just need to see it for themselfs too? I'd be more than happy to disprove any doughts.

Anytime guys,


Scott


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## truck

Any pics?


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## PAYARA

Scott,i have been trying out mono shockleaders for 
spodding this year.i have been useing Fox Soft Steel
tapered (15-45lb) and they have preformed great. i do
however think they are alot better once they get a bit 
of stretch and be come more supple.


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## H2O Mellon

Good lord guys, what happened to the Zebco 33's & 5 foot rods?


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## RiverRat

Greg, ive been wanting to try out the Fox tapered leader, here good things about it.

Truck, ive got a LOAD of pictures...which ones ya want to see?

Mellon....we are not after CHANNEL CATFISH or TURTLES.....we leave the zebco 33's and 5ft fiberglass rods to the children and a few Cat guys...lol.

Scott


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