# don't this burn you up



## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

was working around the house today and just happened to look across the hay field and seen 7 deer running towards the woods.this was about 1230.right on rhere trail was 2 dogs,not coyotes.one was brown in color and the other one was black.don't know who owns the dogs but,if they are seen again they could become buzzard bait.i buy 2 dog tags a year to keep both of mine in the yard and one of them is a bird hunter.just can't stand seeing this happen.if i new who owned them .i would let them know what happened and what the results will be if not stopped.i might just be ranting but, this really burns me up.


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## Agitation Free (Jul 11, 2010)

I recently had a problem with a woman who let her 2 St. Bernards roam without being on a leash. Once when I was taking something out of my truck, one of the dogs came up behind me and bumped the back of my leg. The woman then called the dog back. She was walking across everyones front lawns. I spoke to her about it and she ignored me so I went to city hall and filed a complaint. My city has a leash law as do most. It took 6-8 weeks before the police and the animal control officer got her to comply. See if you can work with your local officials to find the owners and have them address the problem. It is frustrating but please don't take it out on the dogs. It's not their fault.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Agitation Free said:


> It is frustrating but please don't take it out on the dogs. It's not their fault.


100% agree


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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

What's the big deal?


big red said:


> was working around the house today and just happened to look across the hay field and seen 7 deer running towards the woods.this was about 1230.right on rhere trail was 2 dogs,not coyotes.one was brown in color and the other one was black.don't know who owns the dogs but,if they are seen again they could become buzzard bait.i buy 2 dog tags a year to keep both of mine in the yard and one of them is a bird hunter.just can't stand seeing this happen.if i new who owned them .i would let them know what happened and what the results will be if not stopped.i might just be ranting but, this really burns me up.




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## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

it may not be the dogs fault but,once they get started doing it ,it's very hard to get them stopped.there is livestock in this area and they may start chasing them.i,ve had this happen before when i used to raise cattle.the owners were told about it and the local dog warden was notified.he never showed up until after the 3rd time the dogs done it and they were put down.there's not alot of deer in the area,but we like to keep them around.one of the dogs came back past the house around 6oo and watched which direction it went.looks as if it may be a neighbors.going to talk to him tomorrow before i talk to the warden or before the alternative.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

i know what burns me up, it burns me up to go by someones house and they have 2, 3, 4 or more dogs chained up to a tree or a doghouse. just tied there for their existance. what a life they have, little to no contact, highlight of their day is when the owner comes out to feed them or water them if they are lucky. heat, cold, rain, snow, and everything in between and they are stuck there. i would rather see a dog chasing a few deer around then see one living a life of solitude and incarceration. as long as the dogs are not vicious, i say let them be free or keep them inside the house.


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## I_Shock_Em (Jul 20, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> 100% agree


 ........... +1


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

lordofthepunks said:


> i know what burns me up, it burns me up to go by someones house and they have 2, 3, 4 or more dogs chained up to a tree or a doghouse. just tied there for their existance. what a life they have, little to no contact, highlight of their day is when the owner comes out to feed them or water them if they are lucky. heat, cold, rain, snow, and everything in between and they are stuck there. i would rather see a dog chasing a few deer around then see one living a life of solitude and incarceration. as long as the dogs are not vicious, i say let them be free or keep them inside the house.


Nice to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. I can remember talking to old timers that told me I would ruin my dog keeping it inside. Needless to say he outperformes any they have. It almost seems our friendship outside of hunting makes us work better when we are hunting. I guess we both know we can push it to the limit, because we are going to have a big dinner and a nice bed when we get home.


Is that Steubenville "big red"?


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## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

i don't like seeing a dog tied to a box all its life either but,with some good training they can be taught to stay in a yard.i have a kennel build for my 2 if i', going to be outside and gone for a extended period of time.as soon as i get home they are let loose and come in the house for the night.i did find out who owned the dogs and they said they would keep a better eye on them and they don't want them chasing deer either.i hope it works out for them. muskarp:i live in union county north of marysville.


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## saugeyesam (Apr 20, 2004)

Muskarp said:


> Nice to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. I can remember talking to old timers that told me I would ruin my dog keeping it inside. Needless to say he outperformes any they have. It almost seems our friendship outside of hunting makes us work better when we are hunting. I guess we both know we can push it to the limit, because we are going to have a big dinner and a nice bed when we get home.
> 
> 
> Is that Steubenville "big red"?


I have beagles and they are house dogs and they have put some high dollar dogs to shame. I had a guy I worked with tell me his 3 beagles were the best around. I took my two out with his two and he spent more time chasing his dogs and trying to keep them from back tracking all day while mine got me and my bro. our limits. 

I hate seeing dogs run loose unsupervised as well, I had one get hit and stumble through my woods one day 2 Octobers ago, I was out squirrel hunting and found it, I had to put it down it was all messed up. The collar had a tag with an Akron address on it. I live clear down in southern Stark county. Someone had dumped it off, it got hit by a car and there wasn't much could be done to save it. I felt awful and was pissed that someone dumped it. I won't shoot a dog unless it attacks my animals or comes after my kids or something. I get quite a few strays but they usually only hang around a day or so before moving on or someone takes them in. Now cats on the other hand are a different story I usually just put them down and bury them. But we really don't see many out here. I actually think there should be a season on feral cats, not a stray house cat but a cat that has been living wild for most it's life.


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## Boondock77 (Nov 28, 2007)

"don't know who owns the dogs but,if they are seen again they could become buzzard bait."

Not really trying to stir the pot; but this statement kinda does flame me.. the dog really should not be be held accountable for the actions or lack there of, of it's owner... Those dogs dont sound to be doing anything outside of what they normally would in the wild... and aside from the aspect of hunting them this season, I would find the deer to be more invasive than those dogs chasing/hunting them ever would be...an personally see zero harm in it.

I hope you really wouldnt take it out on the animals.

I also agree it flames me that people expect dogs to be leashed 2/47 in a yard... only thing worse is people who buy hound dogs and get flamed for them walking around sounding off all day...


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

Boondock77 _"I also agree it flames me that people expect dogs to be leashed 2/47 in a yard..."_

If your yard is not fenced, people expect it because it is the law. You have to control your animal to prevent it causing damage and financial loss to others.



FISHIN216 said:


> What's the big deal?


I had a friend that bought a farm off route 88. The idea was he would have a place for his family to grow and hunt. Planted feed crops so the game population would increase. He wanted to teach his family to harvest natures bounty the way man was meant to live instead of buying packaged meat.

Then more and more city folks wanting to live in the country moved into the township and started letting their dogs run loose. After a year or two the dogs ran all the game off his property. And they killed or chased off the rabbits and game birds too. He had videos of the rabbit killings and raiding the game bird nests on the ground.

So after investing over $100,000.00 he now has to go to the public hunting area.

That would be a big deal.

The law says that since the dogs were getting into his chickens, he could shoot them. But he did not want to "take it out on the dogs" Now he is screwed. 

No collars on the dogs. Owners are smart enough to take them off so you can not trace the dogs. He should have shot the dogs to protect his investment. And since there is no game on the land now, if he were to sell, the property value would be less. Only way to get the game back is to shoot the dogs.

Once they are destructive, they are not pets but are just like any other country vermin that needs killing.

And that is a sad situation. And yes I am a dog owner, But I took the steps needed to control my animal including building an outdoor kennel and run.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

FISNFOOL said:


> Boondock77 _"I also agree it flames me that people expect dogs to be leashed 2/47 in a yard..."_
> 
> If your yard is not fenced, people expect it because it is the law. You have to control your animal to prevent it causing damage and financial loss to others.
> 
> ...


you cant be serious can you? i mean, i own 8 acres of land in the country, there are houses and dogs everywhere around me, some running free (most) some not. i see turkeys, deer, rabbits, everything almost everyday. there is absolutely no way you can convince me that their was a wild pack of dogs that killed off every animal on ONE persons property. you are vastly exxagerating a non-existant problem. the laws are in place for no other reason then to keep vicious dogs from roaming and to keep them from populating, the laws have nothing to do with chasing wild GAME. 

I also have never seen a dog that could keep up with a deer in the woods, if dogs could hunt and take down deer, then we wouldnt have a hunting season because coyotes would be wiping them out.

i also have never seen a land/property appraisel include "game value". is someone going to go sit in the woods for a weekend watching for deer before he decides that there are no deer and he is going to knock 20 grand off the value of a piece of property.

you also mentioned that he invested 100k, sorry but it must not be much of a farm, if it was all property, you would be doing good to get 100 acres for that which is not exactly enough land to sustain a herd of deer and game. deer are on and off that size property daily. if that 100k included a house, well then he would have one tiny house and maybe 1 or 2 acres. 

sorry, i appreciate the laws involved but im not buying this whole story. ialso just looked up the law, it is illegal to kill a dog unless it is attacking a person, livestock, poultry or any animal owned by another person. last i checked, deer does not fall into that category.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

lordofthepunks

Once again you know nothing of what you speak. Just because it has not happened to you does not mean it did not happen.

8 acres is nothing. He had 83 on a road that had many adjacent farms. His land was a great spot. He bought it at a Sheriffs auction. Then the land owner next door died. His son sold the property for condos. There are enough loose dogs daily that his property is no longer a nesting or bedding area for the volume of wildlife that he had. This did not happen overnight. It took several years. 

I never said the dogs killed any deer, or killed off every animal. They ran them off his property. Wildlife will seek a safer habitat. I did mention the dogs were killing his chickens. That was his opportunity to deal with them and shoot them. He chose not too. Had he know that after several years the problem would change, he may have.

He bought the property and moved his trailer to it, and tore down the old condemned house. Compared to the other larger farms in the area, his property is narrow and long. It has became the buffer zone between the other farms and the condos. The farm next to him on the other side was fully fenced before he moved in. It is much larger. But he can not get permission to hunt there.


When he complained to the condo group, he was left with the impression that they wanted his land so they could expand. How the hell they ever got their land zoned for condos was beyond me, until I saw the same thing happening in Middlefield. A lot of the farms there are gone now too.

I hope you can continue to enjoy your property and the wildlife you see. I hope they never put condos next to your property.

And you may not be a hunter. But if he does not have permission to hunt the adjacent farms, he can not hunt there. The dogs did not eliminate or kill all the animals in the area. They just pushed them onto other land with larger farms. 

And if you never saw a land ad include game, you never saw an ad that mentions "Perfect Hunting Property" 

I used to own property in Tionesta PA. There are a lot of properties there that are what they call camps. You can build a small house on them, or put a trailer there, but not live year round. Most of these are owned for hunting purposes. And I just like others in the area walked the property checking for game signs before buying it. So did the guy that bought it from me.


I know people let their dogs run free. It is common practice. I did it but was there to supervise them. But the law is there so you have a recourse when there is a problem. He would not get the law involved because we all know that pound dogs get killed. Why should the dogs suffer for their owners ignorance.

He is fed up. Unfortunately he is planning on getting chickens again. He figures that if he kills a few dogs, the other dog owners may start taking better care of their pets. It is a sad situation all around.

By the way, coyotes feed mostly on field mice and young rabbits.


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## walkerdog (May 13, 2009)

I agree with you big red. Theres no reson to deal with it. Make them buzzard bait or take them for a long car ride.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

FISNFOOL said:


> lordofthepunks
> 
> Once again you know nothing of what you speak. Just because it has not happened to you does not mean it did not happen.
> 
> ...




once again, i know alot of what i speak of. first off, i never said my amount of land is alot, i simply said 100 acres is small when your talking about having hunting property. secondly, you must be in lala land if you think his property went down in value due to a lack of game especially if the surrounding areas are being developed. 3rdly, i am aware that coyotes do not hunt deer, that is exactly what i said, dogs do not hunt deer either, they might chase them from time to time for a couple of hundred yards but they would not cause an entire population of deer to disapear from an area.

and most importantly, dont you think just maybe the area becoming populated might be the reason for the game leaving the area, rather then peoples dogs causing it.

their are a million reasons why the game in that area are not their, dogs in the area would be the last thing i would suspect.
maybe that guy is not a good hunter, maybe their wasnt much game their to begin with, maybe the development in surrounding areas caused it. 

85 acres is nothing, especially if its long and narrow like you say, deer are not going to be traveling through it if a condos were constructed on one side of it whether their are dogs there or not. sounds like the guy is just making excuses as to why he cant kill anything on his property, if he truly wanted to "live off the land" he would need ALOT more land then 85 acres, if you kill a deer their, then you are just lucky that a deer was passing through, 85 acres is not enough land to support a population.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

Lordofthepunks

Please stop posting entire quotes of everything. You are wasting server space.

The problem with posting is it is not a full conversation and it would take far to much text to tell the whole story as it developed over they years.

Sure the land may be worth more financially, but it is worthless for the purpose he intended.

Just because it was longer than wide does not mean it was not nesting and habitat. He planted and managed the property for that purpose.

And I never said he was living off the land. I said he wanted to teach his kids how to harvest game.

You constantly take things out of context and blow things out of proportion.

He had a nice little hunting camp retreat. He no longer has that use of his property.

The thread is about other dogs running game off other peoples property. It is not about you hijacking the thread to argue with me. 

You seem to have limited life experience and for some reason the key board is your power.

That is a sad situation too. You do not even get it that I agree the killing of the dogs is a result of their natural behavior. It is the fault of the irresponsible owners that let them run free all day while the owner is at work.

Sad thing is some off them have been killed on the road because of running free.

Development would push the game off the developed land but they would still use their bedding or nesting habitat, and feed on adjacent land. 

I live in a old housing development and some deer bed and feed on my small 180 foot by 175 foot backyard. BECAUSE I PLANTED THE HABITAT FOR THEM. Times this by other yards in the area and I see groups of 5 to 10 deer often passing through the area off my property. It is not about his property sustaining a big deer head. It is about giving the wildlife a resting area for them and their young.

That is why I said you know nothing of what you speak. You are jumping to conclusions. What I wrote was a simple statement of fact. I really do not care whether you believe it or not. 

Any other response directed at me from you is not worth the time you take to type it. Try to stay on topic with the threads. OGFers would appreciate it.

I reviewed a lot of your posts. Lots of good information there. Too bad you are now wasting a lot of server space with your assumptions of what other people write. I enjoyed your informative posts.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

FISNFOOL said:


> Lordofthepunks
> 
> Please stop posting entire quotes of everything. You are wasting server space.
> 
> ...


ahhh, now your a server expert, if me quoting whole posts was a problem then SOMEBODY would have mentioned it, there wouldnt be a "quote" button and the server would have crashed a long time ago. 

life experiences, i have plenty, and my experiences tell me that blaming one tiny entity (roaming dogs) for a problem that could have occured for any number of reasons including the possibility of multiple reasons, not just one thing (game disapearing from land) is presumptious, just like you thinking i have not experienced life because i dont buy dogs chasing deer caused game to disapear. dogs show up= game gone , thats jumping to conclusions.

i am not a thread hijacker, i never have and never will, please dont accuse me of such a dastardly offense!


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

.22lr takes care of rogue animals on private property in rural areas. Plain and simple.

And yes, populations of feral dogs can be very detrimental to hunting land. When they are not fed by humans, they will adapt and hunt - and mark their territory with urine and scent glands very much like a wolf or fox or coyote. They may not hunt deer specifically, but will be opportunistic if a group has a deer cornered and are hungry - especially a young deer. We witnessed this just outside of Clarksburg, WV last fall. The citizens down there are afraid to leave their animals outside on their own property due to these burdensome animals.

But then again, I only have 100 or so posts so I'm no expert.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

sbreech

It's not the quantity, but the quality. You are an expert in stating what you directly observed. Same as anybody. And there are always things to learn from others.


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

FISNFOOL said:


> Lordofthepunks
> 
> You are wasting server space.


Interesting take from a guy that replies with no less than 500 words per post.


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## Agitation Free (Jul 11, 2010)

sbreech said:


> .22lr takes care of rogue animals on private property in rural areas. Plain and simple.
> 
> And yes, populations of feral dogs can be very detrimental to hunting land. When they are not fed by humans, they will adapt and hunt - and mark their territory with urine and scent glands very much like a wolf or fox or coyote. They may not hunt deer specifically, but will be opportunistic if a group has a deer cornered and are hungry - especially a young deer. We witnessed this just outside of Clarksburg, WV last fall. The citizens down there are afraid to leave their animals outside on their own property due to these burdensome animals.
> 
> But then again, I only have 100 or so posts so I'm no expert.


If they're feral I agree but as big red started this thread and has since identified the dogs as pets, there is no reason to run for the gun. He also said that he spoke to his neighbor. Hopefully this takes care of the problem. I had the first post to this thread. Today I saw the woman with the 2 St. Bernards for the first time in more than a month. Both dogs were on a leash and the woman has since decided not to walk her dogs past my house. Problem solved. No shots fired. Good luck big red! :good:


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## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

i for one will have to disagree with you on that.i own 14 acres and have deer on my property throuhout the year and several rabbits,squirrels an doves. about 3 acres is yard and 4 acres is planted for hay and foodplots,the rest is wooded with a creek running down the 1/3 of it.my dogs cannot go into the fields or woods due to having hidden fence collars on them.the problems dogs came from across the creek.when this happened i didn't see any deer for a week.since their dogs have been confined the deer have showed back up.small acreage property can be managed for game as long as you manage the varmits that are harmful to the game that you what to manage.this includes dogs,cats and humans that don't have permisson to be there.as for dogs chasing deer,they will chase them till they loose site or will run them to death.as said beforence they start it ,they are very hard to break of it.


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## Agitation Free (Jul 11, 2010)

Agitation Free said:


> If they're feral I agree but as big red started this thread and has since identified the dogs as pets, there is no reason to run for the gun. He also said that he spoke to his neighbor. Hopefully this takes care of the problem. I had the first post to this thread. Today I saw the woman with the 2 St. Bernards for the first time in more than a month. Both dogs were on a leash and the woman has since decided not to walk her dogs past my house. Problem solved. No shots fired. Good luck big red! :good:


Retracted.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

Shooting a dog running wild game might just land you in jail when said owner finds out. They're not chasing your owned animals ie livestock and pets, nor are they attempting to attack you or your family. Choose your actions carefully...

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/955.28

...a dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, threatens, harasses, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, *that is the property of another person*, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, threatening, harassment, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury...


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## alumcreeker (Nov 14, 2008)

get an underground fence wouldnt this solve all the problems it really doesnt cost that much and allows your dog/dogs to run all over the yard and keeps them in the yard why is there so much fighting i have an acre and a half that i fenced in around my house and i have a blood hound it keeps him in so if it works for him it works for all dogs


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## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

after speaking with the neighbors,i haven't seen their dogs loose since.ido here them barking once in awhile early in the mornings or before dark.alumcreeker,i do have the wireless hidden fence and it does work.though ,it's not designed to keep strays out.i want to get my brit bred this winter and don't want a bunch of mixed up pups.so the talking to them first,then the dog warden,then oh well.


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## leupy (Feb 12, 2007)

Dogs running game is a problem, although I am sure most game animals learn to deal with it. My favorite tree stand is about 100 yds. from a street and about 200 yds. from a house with a couple of labs. I like it the most because I can sleep in the tree stand until the dogs bark at the deer headed toward me I wake up and shoot the deer, dogs eat the waste. People are more of a problem, they get a dog or cat and when they can't deal with it they take a drive and dump them out. What do they think is going to happen to them? When you live in the country this is a major problem, you don't want to feed every stray that comes along, along with additional vet bills so you really have no choice on how to handle the situation. Farmers, dog breeders, most professional animal breeders understand something just pet owners don't, some animals need to be put down. I am a reluctant dog owner (he is sleeping between my legs as I type) I don't care for cats and believe they should only be kept inside ALL THE TIME or in a barn for rodent control although poison works better. I guess my bottom line would be it a dog owner lets his dog run loose and it fails to stay on its own property for what ever reason I will feel no remorse if his dog food bill goes to ZERO, cat owners, keep them inside all the time or replace as needed.


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