# boat crash at Cedar Point



## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2007/07/18/front/344077.txt


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## ohiofishman45 (Jul 3, 2007)

Wow, hope everyone will be ok. They're definitely in my prayers.


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

It was Roger Raglin and his family.

I met him in Columbus last year at the Boat show.. I like his show, very exciting and informative. He's a real firecracker too...

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=71296


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Watching his gauges? Sounds like somebody is covering their assets.


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman (May 7, 2007)

i was at soak city just b4 that~WOW


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Big Daddy said:


> It was Roger Raglin and his family.


Roger Raglin? doesn't that guy shoot bow hunting vids?


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

guess i should have read the story before i posted that dude gets VERY excited when he kills a deer.


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

If you don't get excited about whackin' a deer with stick, and string you have to be dead or something. I hope Roger and his party all pull through. I really enjoy his show.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2007/07/19/front/344459.txt

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2007/07/18/front/344459.txt


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## Fishers of Men (Jul 29, 2005)

Where was the "look out" you are required to have at all times?


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## krustydawg (Apr 26, 2004)

Fishers of Men said:


> Where was the "look out" you are required to have at all times?


What is a "look out" going to do when the Captain is running 25+ knots in fog straight towards the breakwall ? I don't know exactly what the visibility was at the time of the accident but I live relatively close to the lakeshore in Huron and it was soupy that night. I don't care what kind of certifications this guy had he needs to go back to GPS 101 for a refreshour course. I know people make mistakes but this guy should have known better, major brain fart. Thank god nobody was killed.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18602942&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46371&rfi=6

Bayer later told watercraft officers he was heading back to Battery Park Marina when he piloted the vessel around the bell buoy marking the entrance of the navigation channel, then went around some boats fishing in the area, Wisse said. 

The boat headed parallel to the breakwall about 30 yards away from the structure, before it hit, Wisse said.


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## Fishers of Men (Jul 29, 2005)

krustydawg said:


> What is a "look out" going to do when the Captain is running 25+ knots in fog straight towards the breakwall ? I don't know exactly what the visibility was at the time of the accident but I live relatively close to the lakeshore in Huron and it was soupy that night. I don't care what kind of certifications this guy had he needs to go back to GPS 101 for a refreshour course. I know people make mistakes but this guy should have known better, major brain fart. Thank god nobody was killed.


First question the court will ask is where and who was the look out required by law. There's another goof then, why was he running that fast in the fog? And I would bet that none of the other boats that were supposed to be there or even him was giving fog signals, doubt if they even know what they are.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Fog or no, why was he doing 25 that close to the harbor? Shouldn't he had been backing it down?


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## Gju42486 (Mar 7, 2005)

i was standing radio watch at coast guard station cleveland harbor when i overheard the call come in on channel 16--i must say, the whole boatcrew sounded very scared/worried about the whole situation, with all the reason to be. Being in the coast guard myself, people in water or boats on the rocks are our number 1 priority cases. The initial call that came in said there were at least 1 person unconscious, and many with head injuries. Coast guard station marblehead was underway to their position within 2 minutes of the call- and on scene roughly 11 minutes later. Hope everything is ok with roger and his crew, that indeed is a very serious case with a few key details being left out of all stories untill the investigation is over.


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## ErieEye (Jul 16, 2007)

He was running down the wrong side of the breakwall!! If they found the boat on the east side of the wall he wasn"t ever heading into the entrance to the bay, unless he jumped the wall. Which I don't think would be possible.


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

Was camping at East Harbor at the time. It was overcast and there was reduced visibility. It was drizzling at some time overnight.

I fish that area occasionally at night. Hope other boaters can tell the difference between me and a breakwall.
...


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## joel_fishes (Apr 26, 2004)

Hope everyone ends up ok. What is the lookout requirement? I haven't heard of it in boating except for requiring a spotter for tubing, water skiing, etc.

Anyone know if alcohol was involved? 

Joel


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Nope. No alcohol, no citations issued. Just a careless accident.
Gju42486 said it best. They will release details when done investigating.


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

Proper Look-out Required
(OAC 1501:47-2-05)
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.
...


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## joel_fishes (Apr 26, 2004)

reel said:


> Proper Look-out Required
> (OAC 1501:47-2-05)
> Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.
> ...


The earlier post made it sound like a second person was needed as a "look-out." The code does not state that. Otherwise, boating by yourself would be illegal, correct?

Joel


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## rutty (Feb 5, 2007)

joel_fishes said:


> The earlier post made it sound like a second person was needed as a "look-out." The code does not state that. Otherwise, boating by yourself would be illegal, correct?
> 
> Joel


That is correct, you don't need a second person. You can definetly boat by yourself, I don't thing there is any law that says you can't go fishing by yourself. You as the boater can be the "look-out" unless you are pulling a skiier or tubing then you need a look-out at least 14 years of age. 

i believe this is the case.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

I'm sure we have a Captain or two on board that can clarify that, but I believe that regulation involves boats for hire. Don't get excited guys.

That said, it may not be the best of circumstances to be alone after dark, fog or not. Things can happen fast. I've never felt totally comfortable on the water after dark even with a lookout, because of all the yahoos out there.


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

The report mentioned the Capt. was watching the GPS. The GPS is nice but never rely on it for navigating. Civilian GPS is not accurate like Military GPS. Earlier GPS's were accurate up to 100 meters. Newer GPS's will get get you from 10-50 meters close to your objective than older models. With newer technology and Ex-Prez Clinton releasing more satellites, GPS's are still not 100% accurate. My Lowrance even says not to rely on it for navigation on the opening dialog.


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

Observer Required when Towing Skier
(ORC 1547.15)
Any person who operates a vessel towing a person on water skis, surfboard, other similar devices or barefoot skier shall have an observer ten years of age or older in the vessel who shall at all times observe the person being towed. The vessel operator shall observe the traffic pattern. No person shall permit operation of a vessel in violation of this section.
...


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

Not to overdo this thread, but I have a great interest in this.

This chart I downloaded for free.
http://home.neo.rr.com/reel7/1.pdf

With my laptop and (Street atlas $100 including gps receiver) I could, in an emergency, come down this channel at 0 visibility.
Have done it in Huron one day that I got fogged in.

If I had $200k invested I would improve my navigation equipment.

Still no excuse for not "looking-out".
...


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## OakLane (May 16, 2006)

Something obviously went very wrong for the skipper to endanger many lives by piling the boat onto a breakwall at an estimated 25 knots. As many have said, the investigation is ongoing,and thank God nobody was killed. 


Having said that if he was going that fast in rain,fog, and darkness,and relying on nothing more than instruments, he made a serious error in judgement.He should be cited for it, if found to be the case.If you wrecked your car and injured a bunch of folks, you would be getting a ticket. 

Especially as a paid guide he should be held to a higher standard.


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

I'll let the investigators investigate... My uninformed opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans... They'll figure it out, I'm sure.

I would like to send Mr. Raglin and his family(and the charter captain and production crew) some "get well" wishes. They were very fortunate no one was killed.


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

Here is another item that nobody seems to observe.

(edited) No person shall operate a vessel at greater than idle speed or create a wake within 300 feet of any, harbor entrance on Lake Erie.
...


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## hunt-n-fish (Jun 19, 2007)

reel said:


> Here is another item that nobody seems to observe.
> 
> (edited) No person shall operate a vessel at greater than idle speed or create a wake within 300 feet of any, harbor entrance on Lake Erie.
> ...


I've read alot of points about this unfortunate event. To begin with, the observer has to do with keeping a lookout or oberver on a vessel at all tiimes, in the case of collisions or dangers. This observer can be the operator him/herself and/or passenger(s). In the even of poor visibility (fog, darkness, etc.), a prudent boat operator would advise all crew members, passengers and himself to keep a watch. Included also, you have an issue with safe operating speeds, just as you do on land. In the event of poor visibility conditions, a safe and prudent operator should adjust his/her speed to the conditions. Nighttime operation is no exception to be going fast, including conditions of fog and rain. Anything other then slow speeds can be determined unsafe and even reckless.

Considering the electronics on board, they should be used only as aids to the operator, not to be exact. With the operator senses, the electronics should help him determine a possible obstruction (collision), shallow water (grounding) and course (direction). 

It appears from the operators own statements that he was not observant of his surroundings, operating at an unsafe speed for conditions and used poor judgment. It's a rare thing when a boat strikes a solid object like a breakwall and no person(s) are killed. He was very lucky and should count his blessings. 

By the way, as the quote read, "No person shall operate a vessel at greater than idle speed or create a wake within 300 feet of any, harbor entrance on Lake Erie", it only applies to sheltered waterways, harbors and marina situations. like areas in west and east harbors, the portage river in Port Clinton, portions of Sandusky Bay or where it's otherwise posted, not on the open water of Lake Erie where this collision took place.


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## vc1111 (Apr 13, 2004)

I'm with Big Daddy on this one. Roger Raglin is one of us, so to speak. 

Was a mistake made? Obviously, and it could happen to any of us under the right circumstances, just as when we're driving an automobile.

I wish them all a speedy recovery.


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## BlueMax (Dec 3, 2006)

I am disheartened to see some folks looking to place blame, pass judgement, and suggest punishment to someone they do not know and doing so with no concrete information about the incident. This was an unfortunate accident. The captain feels worse than anyone. He knows what happened better than anyone and surely better than anyone commenting in this thread.
I wish all those injured a speedy recovery.


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## EYEKING (Feb 27, 2007)

Maybe he should have been watching radar rather than his gauges. Looking at the photo on his website (www.bayernecessities.com) you can see his boat was equipped with it. 

From the website... "She has all the safety equipment to deal with Lake Erie's sometimes rough weather. Plus she has radar to get you out in the dark and home in the fog." All the safety equipment in the world is useless if you don't use your head.


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## Agent47 (Jun 27, 2006)

none of us have done anything wrong......I know I havent <---- rolling eyes


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## Chucky (Apr 6, 2006)

Quote from BayerNecessities site: 

She's safe!



She has all the safety equipment to deal with Lake Erie's sometimes rough weather. Plus she has radar to get you out in the dark and home in the fog. Very few fishing days are lost to inclement weather on this boat.

I wounder why the radar wasn't used like EYEKING said?


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

Sorry guys, but it's very disappointing to see the way this thread is going. Seems to be more effort put into discrediting the charter captain before all the facts are in and the investigation ends than anything else.


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## rutty (Feb 5, 2007)

Big Daddy said:


> Sorry guys, but it's very disappointing to see the way this thread is going. Seems to be more effort put into discrediting the charter captain before all the facts are in and the investigation ends than anything else.


I would have to agree with that. We all make mistakes and have been in accidents (at least most have). It is the nature of the beast, we aren't perfect. 

I am glad to hear that they all are doing great and only 1 person is still left in the hospital. That is great news. I know they were in my prayers all week.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Big Daddy said:


> Sorry guys, but it's very disappointing to see the way this thread is going. Seems to be more effort put into discrediting the charter captain before all the facts are in and the investigation ends than anything else.


Just thinking out loud here... would things be any different if it were just "Joe Fisherman" and his family involved? Does the celebrity status of the client affect our initial view of the incident?


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

Big Daddy said:


> Sorry guys, but it's very disappointing to see the way this thread is going. Seems to be more effort put into discrediting the charter captain before all the facts are in and the investigation ends than anything else.


Not to be ignorant, but he did hit the breakwall and the breakwall didn't jump out in front of him. Regardless if there were other boats in the area he was moving way to fast for the conditions. By him running in those conditions he was negligent. Those are the facts and you cannot dispute them. If he was driving a car under the same conditions on the highway and caused an accident he would be at fault because he violated many rules of the road. It's the same thing.

If the Captain is not citied, I would be very surprised. If I am wrong, and I see you in the future Ill buy you a lunch.


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

With all due respect, the "facts" and whether the captain was negligent is for the investigators to decide, as is any determination of punishment or not.


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## krustydawg (Apr 26, 2004)

Toxic said:


> Not to be ignorant, but he did hit the breakwall and the breakwall didn't jump out in front of him. Regardless if there were other boats in the area he was moving way to fast for the conditions. By him running in those conditions he was negligent. Those are the facts and you cannot dispute them. If he was driving a car under the same conditions on the highway and caused an accident he would be at fault because he violated many rules of the road. It's the same thing.
> 
> If the Captain is not citied, I would be very surprised. If I am wrong, and I see you in the future Ill buy you a lunch.


Tell it brother !


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## Toolman (Jun 8, 2004)

I agree with BD that we have no right to be judge or jury here. I will say that regardless if you are a recreational boater or a charter captain...the most important thing is the safety of those aboard the boat. If anything, a boat for hire should be hels to a higher standard, but anyone piloting a vessel of any kind is 100% responsible for the safety of all aboard-no questions asked.

Tim


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

I agree with you on the safety aspects too Toolman...and when the investigation runs it's course, I'm sure there will be accountability.


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## Alaskan (Jun 19, 2007)

KaGee said:


> Just thinking out loud here... would things be any different if it were just "Joe Fisherman" and his family involved? Does the celebrity status of the client affect our initial view of the incident?


Not saying it's right, but how much you wanna bet that if this guy was in a bass boat...lots of folks on here would be less reserved in their judgement.

!%


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

I can only speak for myself, but if it were just "Joe Fisherman" I wouldn't be casting stones at him either, nor if it were "someone in a bass boat". 

I'm not taking anything away from the charter captains responsibilty and accountability for the situation, I'm only waiting for the PROPER authorities to decide what that will be. And even after it's decided, it's for the charter captain to deal with, and I'm sure he will have enough to worry about.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Just wondered if anyone heard anything in follow-up?


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

Nope, but I did get a couple emails from Roger Raglin. He said his family was tired, but was doing well and on the mend.

I didn't push for details or anything, just was wishing him well.


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

Cited does not mean convicted.

http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18654260&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46371&rfi=6


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

Big Daddy said:


> With all due respect, the "facts" and whether the captain was negligent is for the investigators to decide, as is any determination of punishment or not.


I guess with that news article that Reel posted, you're not getting that lunch I was going to buy you if I was wrong. Sorry Big Daddy.  This was a clear cut and dry no brainer that he was going to be cited. He was cited for a moving violation. It's no difference than driving a car. He would have been convicted if there was a death. 

Don't worry, even thought you were wrong I'll still you lunch anyway!


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

> watercraft officers filed citations of operating a vessel without due caution, *failing to maintain a proper lookout* and failing to proceed at a safe speed to avoid a collision,


Fishers of Men called that one!

He'll plead no-contest, be sentenced and fined. In the end he'll have a humbled ego, an expensive wrecked boat and probably a wrecked career as a charter captain. Guess it's not the 15 minutes of fame he had hoped for.


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

Toxic, if you look at what I posted, I said it was up to the investigators to decide. I never said the captain wouldn't be cited. Nor was I defending the actions of the charter captain.

My point was to let the investigators decide the outcome, that's what they did. I know Mr. Raglin will handle the civil portion of the incident through his attorneys and the captain's insurance company.  

Let's eat.


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

Big Daddy said:


> Let's eat.


LOL, I am hungry to buddy!


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## reel (Dec 15, 2004)

Sandusky Register update on this old post.

JUST IN: Lawsuit filed by outdoors host against boat captain

A civil lawsuit has been filed in Erie County by outdoors program host Roger Raglin against chartered boat Captain Ted Bayer and his company Bayer Necessities.

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2008/02/21/front/615488.txt
...


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## Fishers of Men (Jul 29, 2005)

Going to be interesting.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Not surprising.


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## hunt-n-fish (Jun 19, 2007)

An episode pertaining to the incident was on his Outdoor Channel show earlier this winter. He shows footage of the event, details it and is very humble. 

Did anyone else see it? You could determine throughout the show that he had little to say about the guide and more about the incident. Kind of wondered if he would go this route. Even though no one was killed, there were some pretty anxious moments, with extensive injuries and everyone was lucky to be alive.


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## ERIE REBEL (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah I saw that show also and Roger did look a little worse for wear.I am guessing that he will get paid when all is said and done.


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