# Low head dams on Big Darby



## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

Can someone give me the GPS locations for the low head dams on the Big Darby? Are they north or south of SR40? I have heard reports of both.

I am thinking about canoeing the length of the Darby, and would prefer not to have any surprises.


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## Reel Thing (Apr 5, 2004)

I believe that the only one that is left is south of 40 on the Darby Dan farm but not sure if it has ever been removed. 
After that you have clear river to the Scioto 
You may want to contact Darby Metro parks since they own most of the land in that area
There used to be 1 at RT40 but it was removed a few years ago and there was 1 on little darby at Georgesville it was also removed
hope this helps 
geowol


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## WINNER (Apr 7, 2004)

You'll be able to see it. Not a big deal, an easy portage. It is below rte 40 about 3-4 miles. It is about 10-12 ft high.

Winner


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

Thank you

Thank you


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## twistertail (Apr 10, 2004)

Hey blue, when you going to canoe it? where you going to start? Sounds like fun. 
I know when you get close to the Scioto there are lots of downed trees and you will have to pull out or over several times before you get into the Scioto. There is a nice parking lot on rt 22 by the Scioto and you only have to paddle a mile or less once you hit the Scioto.


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## leckig (May 11, 2005)

yeah, I go to Darby Dan farm sometimes, the dam is still there


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

I did 16.5 miles of the Darby yesterday.
Putting in a Beech and pulling out at Trapper Johns at dark.
With the water flow the way it is, this is WAY to far to enjoy fishing along the way. I had to push hard then entire day to make the distance. 

There are no serious rapids. There are a lot of areas where I drug bottom and/or had to get out and walk the riffles. 

There are 2 low head dams. 
I will add GPS co-ordinates when I pull them from the GPS. But the first one is very visible at the golf course. They even have a sign telling you where to pull out. It is an easy walk along a path. 

The second low head dam is a 5-minute paddle from the first. It is much older dam than the first. It is just a bunch of large rocks in the middle of the stream. There is a cut, which I ran (STUPID!), but it would be wise to portage around, at least with the water flow the way it is. 

I didnt make a serious attempt at fishing, but I caught 2 bass. One was ~6 inches long, the other was ~10 inches long. They looked healthy and had good color.


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

Twister tail, are you thinking north of where the Darby crosses 104 or south of 104?


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

As mentioned by someone.

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/OH/nwis/current/?type=flow

Shows river flow. Yesterday's flow was 180. More water would have been good.


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## jsalkas (Feb 18, 2005)

Here's a question for canoe fishermen... in general, what would you say is a good distance for a river float where you plan to do some serious fishing (occasionally beaching to wade fish some water)? I guess it depends on stream flow, but I think when you start to talk about anything over 10 miles, you're going to have to bypass a lot of water.


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

Here are a few determining factors.

1.	As a solo canoer, on flat water, I can paddle 4mph for an hour for approximately an hour. Then I need to rest. Two people paddling in tandem should be able to do 5-7MPH on average. (But dont anticipate being able to hit max speed on a creek like the Darby. It is too shallow in many places, so you cant get a good stroke.)
2.	How fast is the water moving? I peaked out at 4.7MPH yesterday. This was in a fast spot going down some rapids. If the entire stream was moving this fast I would have made my take out spot (rt22 and Scioto).
3.	How often are you dragging bottom and need to get out and walk the canoe?

Side notes:
Creeks are not as straight as the map would suggest. My route yesterday was 16.5 miles by canoe. It was only 14 miles by map.

I have been told that Trapper Johns Trips are a good length fishing trip (although the area has been over fished). According to my map this trip is only 3.07 miles.

Portages are time killers!


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## Hooch (Apr 14, 2004)

It's easy to take 8 hours to fish 3 miles. Never too far to the take out point.
Better to error on the shorter trip than the long one! -Hooch-


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## canoebill (Aug 11, 2004)

I do 6-8 miles when canoeing with friends, drinking beers and no fishing. When fishing I like to do just 3-4 otherwise you won't have time enough. There is a canoeguide book that gives river miles for stretches-use that.

The dam with the sign-they used to not let you go ashore unless you had previous permission.


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## WINNER (Apr 7, 2004)

F-them...they can't regulate a navigable river. The river is held in trust for the people by the state. Who owns the river up to the high water mark-we do!!! Just because "Darby Dan" wants to put up a damn dam for his own "recreation" doesn't mean he can stop us from using the river.

Free the rivers,
Winner


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## jsalkas (Feb 18, 2005)

Thanks for the info guys; that should make future planning easier.


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

Winner, you bring up an interesting point. Since it is a navigable creek, access around the obstacle should be granted. I would not think the land owner would mind as long as the canoers respect the property and dont cause issues.

My question is what is the high water mark? Is it the normal spring flow or the 25yr flood, or the 100 year flood? If it is the 100 year flood then the state owns 1/3 of Chillicothe, and a good bit of some other cities like Cincinnati, and Portsmouth, almost every city along the Ohio river has been flooded sometime in the last 100 years.

My second question is, do I have a right to camp along a stream? Assuming minimal impact, leaving no trash.


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## WINNER (Apr 7, 2004)

> My question is what is the high water mark? Is it the normal spring flow or the 25yr flood, or the 100 year flood? If it is the 100 year flood then the state owns 1/3 of Chillicothe, and a good bit of some other cities like Cincinnati, and Portsmouth, almost every city along the Ohio river has been flooded sometime in the last 100 years.


All good questions. This is a question that you can never get a straight answer on. I've asked ODNR officials, officers, lawyers, college professors and the like and I get a different answer every time. 

Ask my friend Jeff and he will tell you that he owns the creek because he "pays taxes on all of it" and I have to agree. But the use of the riverbed and water in it is a different issue.

It's not really a matter of _ownership_ as it is _use_. My benchmark is the streambed. I use creeks and rivers a lot and I can determine what streambed means. I will not wander on farmland or through a woods even if it is an easier route. Also, I'm engaged in a the useful craft(don't argue "useful" with wife, you will lose) of fishing. I'm not loitering or causing trouble.

Most land owners are cool with this and respect your right to be on the river. Some are not, I try to avoid them. (but I'm still going to use the river) 

Are you allowed to camp on the adjacent streambed? I would say technically yes, but I try not to. I find an island if I can. 

I will use any river in Ohio, but with that comes with responsibility. I pack out what I pack in and pick up litter when I can. I respect the landowner and his/her property. I catch and release so others can share in the joy I had when I hauled in that monster smallie!

Here are som useful resources... 
http://www.adventuresports.com/river/nors/us-law-public.htm
http://www.oregon.gov/DSL/NAV/whoownsthewaterways.shtml
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/archive/article/1013/

Clear as mud?

Winner


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

Dam1 N39 55.709 W83 13.801 
Dam2 N39 55.619 W83 13.810


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## striperfreak (Apr 30, 2004)

camping on the bank is a good way to get arrested for trespass. you can use the water anywhere not the shoreline. you can never get a straight answer because the law is real fuzzy about this topic. as far as i know landowners can own the land on a river to the creek channel. if im floating theres nothing they can say about it.


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## Basskisser1 (May 15, 2004)

RW, Twistertail is talking about where 22 crosses the Scioto just west of Circleville. It is about 1 mile downstream from where Darby flows into the Scioto. The section between where 104 crosses the Darby and the confluence of the Scioto and Darby had a LOT of downed trees several years ago when we floated it. It was a pain in the a**. Good luck and have a safe trip.
The way we always heard the law is that the landowner owns the bottom of the creek but not the water you are floating in. You can float it but you can't anchor or get out of the canoe. Although you do have a right to portage around a manmade or nartural obstacle on a "navigable" waterway. The argument comes in on what is a navigable waterway. Some landowners have told us we can't even float through their property. That's when you just paddle on through to avoid the hassle.


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

Stiperfreak, I beleive you need to read http://www.adventuresports.com/river/nors/us-law-public.htm It disagrees with your statement. As long as I stay to the traditional riverbed (banks), I should be legal. I also checked with a few other people and they say the Cops have been know to stop by their camp site, but don't bother them as long as they are not causing issues.


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## striperfreak (Apr 30, 2004)

wow, great reading. according to this i can walk any bank as long as it is below the high water line. did i read this right?


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

From rt 40 heading south you will run into a lowhead dam on Darby Dan's property, you can pull out and go around this...but DO NOT mess around, they will be watching(video cameras posted)...right below that dam is 3 wing dams, they have a channel cut through them to off set the flow.
That is the only dam south of rt. 40 on the Big D.

Good luck and happy fishing,

Scott


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

Also, the landowner owns the ground UNDER the stream...you are not tresspassing unless your wading, anchor a boat.....Darby Dan owns the land along the stream and he owns the dam its self..when you get out to walk around the dam, your on HIS property..mess around and give the security guards a reason to run you off and trust me they will..plus call the law.
That family has a load of pull and they will have you removed..play "nice" and everyone gets along.

Get to know the law as an angler, because the landowners sure know it!!
This is an old topic and if you do a search you will find LONG threads with loads of links that plainly discribe the laws as there writen.

Scott


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

striperfreak said:


> wow, great reading. according to this i can walk any bank as long as it is below the high water line. did i read this right?


That is the way I read it.
That is the way it appears that at least one Sherif department is enforcing the law.

RiverRat, read the articles or point me to a better spot. It appeas that the federal courts have already ruled on this. They can not own the ground under the stream.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Unfortunately RiverRat is right..In Ohio, if you own land on both sides of the river you "own the River (bed)"...A law many states DO NOT HAVE..personally I DETEST IT! In states such as Michigan and Illinois you can own all land up to the "normal high water mark However the river...and the immediate riparian zone surrounding it, are considered public property.....Even if you own property on both sides.


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