# Alum Creek musky (theories)



## Skunkedagain

Anyone have any idea why so many musky have been caught this spring at Alum Creek. Seems like every other post has a picture of someone with a Alum musky. Myself included. Have had three hookups (all casting) in two trips and boated 2 fish. I have fished Alum alot over the past 10 years, and don't remember ever seeing so many fish caught.


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## Coon_Shark

I think last year they had a double stocking.......I think it was like 3 per acre. That why there's so many small ones.


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## fishing_marshall

According to the Musky Angler Log 98 out of 153 muskies caught so far this year have been from Alum Creek.


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## Skunkedagain

That reminds me, I need to get on MAL The smallest one I've hooked was about 32" (lost at boat) I boated a 34" and a 40".


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## crittergitter

No major water release at ice out was a big factor this year. It has helped the lake retain a larger number than in years past. Seems like the last 3 or 4 winters in a row we get slammed with 2-3" of rain right at ice-out when the fish are still holding deep. They go with the current and end up flying through the pipe into the spillway. Not this year. If only we could control the weather. Just my pea brain theory.


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## esox62

was just reading this and saw a story on the local news about caskets washing up on shore at alum creek..! supposedly from a re-located graveyard..sheesh...


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## Coon_Shark

Hi Critt,

We have like 5 feet to work with at Alum (till full pool). Hopefully that'll do.

-You going to the Musky seminar tonight? PJ's in Sunbury at 7pm. It'd be good to have you there.

-Cool thread in your OGF footer......


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## Weatherby

My theory (take it as you will).

There are several factors (not only for Alum but statewide I would think.) 

1. Mild winter by most Ohio accounts.

2. No spring floods, heavy snow melt, or heavy rains to mess up the water or wash the fish out the drain.

3. Warmer temps earlier. Although the past couple weeks it seems you couldn't tell it.


These combined I'm sure have had a positive effect on our favorite fish with teeth. Now if I could just get more time to go I might be able to boat a few before the water lice (pleasure boaters/jet skiers) take over.


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## DelawareAngler

There are no muskies in Alum you all are liars.


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## JIG

I would think that maybe the forage is low. Never fished there but when the bait is in abundence the fishing is slow. Ive seen bass in cuts that were filled in go NUTS over what was left of the bait. You could get them by the dozens along with crappies by the buckets full. Un-real!


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## fishslim

All i know is i have hooked 18 so far this year and since fall of 07 i have caught 39 muskies. Now the wild part of that is i have yet to fish for them. As for the fish being caught so far this year the double stocking has nothing to do with it the ones i have hooked or caught this year have been 34-42" none that fall into the last year stocking class. Which scares the gajeebies out of me since there is all those 20-30 inch fish swimming around there as well. Jig it is not a baitfish thing lake is full of baitfish. My fear is what this amount of large predators will do to the upcoming SAUGEYE STOCKINGS!!  These fish are preying on anything that gets near them so bye bye fingerlings. Why double stock a lake that is already to full of these guys??? Oh well the muskie guys have no excuses to not landing Muskies out of this lake and if you are having trouble just do not fish for them and you will get 1-3 or more every trip out like us saugeye and bass fishermen are doing.


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## crittergitter

I have a new theory. I need to spend less time @ the office and more time on the water!


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## Coon_Shark

fishslim said:


> All i know is i have hooked 18 so far this year and since fall of 07 i have caught 39 muskies. Now the wild part of that is i have yet to fish for them. As for the fish being caught so far this year the *double stocking* has nothing to do with it the ones i have hooked or caught this year have been 34-42" none that fall into the last year stocking class. ...... Why double stock a lake that is already to full of these guys??? Oh well the muskie guys have no excuses to not landing Muskies out of this lake and if you are having trouble just do not fish for them and you will get 1-3 or more every trip out like us saugeye and bass fishermen are doing.



fishslim..... My comment on a double stocking had no reference to you catching some nice fish? Congrat's to you for getting some size! I'm making this comment on a fact that a lot of fish being caught by _everyone_ are sub 30's and low 30's-and that's because of a double stocking. I'm really sorry if my comment belittled your *'elite' fishing status*. Why compare?

Why double stock muskies? Why not. There's only like 10 lakes in the whole state that have muskies-ODNR double stocks one of those lakes and the 'some' fishermen bring out the rags to sob? One lake in the whole state?

Re: Oh well the muskie guys have no excuses to not landing Muskies out of this lake.........who are you referencing?...but, small baits definately work. Double stocking has nothing to do with muskie guys not catching fish!

Re: My fear is what this amount of large predators will do to the upcoming SAUGEYE STOCKINGS!! .......wait a second.....you are commenting about 'out fishing' the musky fishermen with saugeye/bass baits, yet you claim muskies are the top predator in the lake? Need a logic check? You'd be surprise what musky fishermen catch with musky baits-more than once I've caught 12" saugeye on a 6" full profile musky bait (Lil Ernie).


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## fishslim

Wow **** Shark you need a day or two to get out and relieve the Muskie tension!!  I am sorry if i touched your nerve or upset you by my comments. I hope others who read it understood what i was saying. I was saying how great this lake has become for muskies and if you have not got out there do so because they are biting well and have been for past year. As for stating how many i have hooked and caught over that time frame i was only trying to show how well the fishery is. I yes i do keep track of catches and from talking with other muskie guys they keep records as well for it is interesting to look back and see patterns for best bite and conditions and so forth. IT WAS NOT TO BOAST UP MY AS YOU SAY FISHING STATUS! I am a avid fishermen of many species and yes i have hunted the muskie since about 10 years old seeing how i grew up right by Clear fork. I was bringing info to the table to talk about and as for double stocking statement you are right no problem but all i was saying is if the other 9 lakes are not thriving like Alum is double stock them not the one that has no problem producing quality fish now and in the future. And was i off base in stating that these large fish will be waiting for the finglerings when released? Only one true answer to that certainly why wouldn't they!! Also was not putting Muskie fishermen down in any way i was making a point if a guys is going out there and not hooking fish downsize the lures and see what happens i think that point in other threads we see is a factual thing right now. That was only thing i was saying.  I was seeking Information when asking about the double stock ? And thank you for answering it. I hope i did not offend you and in future hope you land some dandies. Oh as for what you catch on a muskie bait not surprised at all. I use Muskie size baits for Saugeyes all the time and always catch small dink saugeyes as well as a crappie every now and then. so i don't just think small not at all!!


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## JIG

Guess the question in why would the state double stock a lake that produces good fishing? On the other hand stock a lake thats low on forage? Wouldnt it be worth limiting that they put in a lake? WB used to have a good pop of small eyes and have vanished the last few years. No more cigars! Are there any stocking regulations on Ohios waters? I have a ton of questions for them but its tough finding the right person to answer them honestly.


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## ying6

My theory is nobody really keeps them, so whenever I get one I look for someone to take it and clean it! Just doing my part! 
Also, slim the one you caught deep and gave to your buddy didn't he find a small eye in its stomach?
ying


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## Skunkedagain

I am sure that bass do far more damage to the eye stockings than musky do.


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## Coon_Shark

fishslim.....sorry, emails/memo's can be deceiving. 

Just tired of bass fishermen/and saugeye fishermen saying musky go around and eat everything they see? I hear it quite a bit, when saugeye, bass, musky are being caught on the same lures? At times out producing the musky fishermen using larger lures. People would be surprised that the majority of musky caught in Alum Creek are caught on a Storm Lightnin' Shad (like 3 1/2"). That lure gets quite a bit of size, too.

Just thought you were pin pointing other fishermen that have been putting their best effort, and getting nothing. Adding salt to an injury.

I understannd the double stocking was just a one time deal. It was like a year or two ago-overabundance.


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## Erie Addict

This is an interesting thread. I have fished alum and surrounding lakes since coming to Columbus in 1979. Used to fish as much, if not more than Ying or Fishslim and could pretty much catch saugeye ant time of the year. The more you fish, the more intune you become and thus the more you catch. Alum and Hoover used to be great walleye lakes as well, but ODNR decided that Saugeyes would be better suited for thier waters and they do seem to thrive there. Seems strange to me how one of the ODNR Fishery guys, who is now in charge of this District, used to be a die hard Saugeye guy. Even had articles published in Infisherman. Then he got bit by the muskie bug. Now we have a bunch of Muskie stocked in Alum. Coincidnece? I think not. You can find him on Alum usually once or twice a week fishing for slimmy, toothy fish. I can attest to the saugeye fishing not being nearly what it was back in 1986-1996. You could catch 20-26" saugeye just about everywhere on points and weed beds. Of course the fishing preasure back then is not nearly what it is now.


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## fishslim

Amen to that Post. Great info Erie as a matter of fact saw him coming off the water tonight as i was going out. Part that disturbs me is how trollers just do not care how close they get to boats working a area or even to shore fishermen. Was finally on some eyes tonight and wham 2 trollers come flying right thru us baitfish were up on surface and gone in a trollers pass. Bite died out right away as well.


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## Bob4246

Erie, I heard the ODNR guy you speak of is now the main man in charge of the state run hatcheries. You speak the truth. Absolutely not a coincidence.


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## Weatherby

Yes Elmer is in charge of the hatcheries. Coincidence? Probably not. 

If you get to know him he is a great wealth of information and always has been willing to listen to "our" side. He may not agree and will tell you he doesn't, but also tell you why.


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## Sunfish

Well, this post started with the question : "Anyone have any idea why so many musky have been caught this spring at Alum Creek." It then ended up with attacks on ODNR and how their personnal are stocking lakes according to their personal preferences. All I can say is "shut up and fish" !!! It is clear that you do NOT know what you are talking about. It always appears if your fishing is not what it used to be, then it MUST be due to some external factor. Yeah, blame it on ODNR. What a a bunch of CRAP. ODNR may not be perfect, but they ALWAYS must work to reach a balance between competing intrests, wheather it be fish stocking, hunting or trying to maintain wildlife areas. I really get bothered when it is so easy for people to trash someone or an organization on an internet site with their "personal opinion" and not a single fact to back them up. TALK IS CHEAP. Think before you post. One person at ODNR is not setting stocking goals, lake management or whatever. These folks are trying their best with very LIMITED funds to support a recreational active enjoyed by many. There are always competing interests when there are so many of us trying to enjoy the same resource. How about relying on scientific fact instead of personal opinion. Speaking of personal opinion, going back to the original question : "Anyone have any idea why so many musky have been caught this spring at Alum Creek." - my opinion is that we have had a lake at below normal levels for an extended period of time. Because of this. it has been wonderful for many bank fisherman to experience catching a top of the line predator - muskie. They have had better access than normal to this species. In addition, there is much less water volume in the lake and to top it off, the water has been very clear due to limited rainfall. Both of these factors help in "catching the fish of 10,000 casts." With the rains this week, it should be interesting as the lake fills up and becomes muddy. My guess is that the catches of this fish will drop off dramatically. However, again I am not a fishery biologist, just another fisherman. I leave the science up to the professionals.


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## cincinnati

let a man's empty freezer stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.


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## JIG

Could you find out when the next DNR get together is open too the public? Id like to check that out and maybe get a better understanding of stockings. Sounds like though they give us a lake to chose from. Just depends on what your fishin for?


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## Weatherby

The next muskie summit won't be until February 2010. I am not sure when any of the other public meetings are scheduled. I know they just had some.

I can tell you this for muskie stocking. They strive to raise enough fish to stock each of the program lakes at 1 fish per acre. Some years they have extra (The extra fish usually go to Pymatuning). Some years they fall short and make a trade with other states.(Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia) If Indiana needs steelhead for instance they will send them steelhead in exchange for muskies.


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## JIG

Maybe the double stocking is with a lake being low they fell too many go out the tubes. I guess some fish is better than no fish!


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## Weatherby

Jig - Here is a link to the DNR page with all of the open houses and public meeting schedules. 


http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Default.aspx?tabid=5725


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## Fish With Teeth

I don't recall hearing of a double stocking at Alum, but if there was, It could have been because most muskie fisherman at Alum, report their catch to the ODNR, via scale samples in the past and now, the Muskie Angler Log. As most muskie fisherman in Ohio know, the amount of fish stocked in a lake is determined by how many catch reports are recieved from all of the lakes. ODNR figures that the lakes with the high catch numbers are the lakes that are being fished the most. In return, these are the lakes that recieve the full stockings. If Alum recieved a double stocking I am sure it is because it had one of the highest catch reports in the state. It just means that muskie fisherman at Alum, are reporting their fish like they are supposed to and they and everyone else that fishes alum are benefitting from that.
Successful fisheman at lakes that do not report their catch may be left out.
I don't see any sense in throwing ODNR personel under the bus because they are doing a very good job of stocking one of the few muskie lakes that Ohio has.


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## Weatherby

This post was made by Elmer on the Central Ohio Muskies Inc. website concerning this very topic.


Several friends brought to my attention that there were threads on fishing web sites with theories speculating about why Alum Creek Lake muskie fishing and muskie numbers seemed to be off the scale this spring at "Alum". The short answer is all our State Muskie Program Lakes are now consistently receiving the healthiest (best condition) advanced fingerling muskies in the history of muskie management in Ohio. All our Program Lakes have the same stocking rate of 1 fish/acre, some lakes like Alum have as much as three times the acreage of water compared to a Clearfork or Leesville so it receives three times as many fish. Some lakes like Leesville rarely lose muskies due to high water events in spring and with the better average water quality (clearer in spring) turn in big numbers of fish every year. Alum has not been as fortunate in that regard over the years and has experienced several significant loses of fish during the crucial late March to early May spawning period when muskies are very mobile and looking for good clean water to deposit their eggs. What we are experiencing this spring is what Alum can achieve with over 4 years now of no big releases in April along with stable water level and water clear enough for active muskies to see angler's lures. 

A few other facts concerning Alum this spring are the following: 

Unlike you might think, the shad population (muskie forage) is high at present, shad populations exploded in many of our States Lakes last season with several heavy spawns instead of one. These fish can range from 3-5 inches depending on which end of the spawn they came from. 

The muskies being caught in the highest numbers range from 2+ years old to 5+ years old or 22" to 40" with the two 48-inch fish being 7 to 9 years old most likely. There has not been a double stocking at Alum Creek Lake. It did receive an extra 10% last year due to VHS prescience at Clearfork Reservoir. Part of the Department of Agriculture agreement for when we cleared quarantine at London Fish Hatchery was that any fingerlings raised at the Hatchery would all go to Alum because the surplus fry from London hatchery raised from Clearfork eggs had already been stocked there. Please note: there was no mortality at Clearfork related to the prescience of VHS and our hatchery egg treatment protocols were already in place. No virus was found at the London Hatchery after 6 months of testing and the remaining muskies were all stocked at Alum. Our Kincaid Hatchery stocked the remaining State Program Lakes.

We may need to devote one of our monthly Programs to the local saugeye fishery to bring some local anglers up to date. This post is my way of addressing some of this as we all know you can't win by responding to outlandish statements and downright character assassination on the internet although I thought that wasn't supposed to be allowed on these sites. The people I work with are the most professional and intelligent fisheries biologist in the country and with the help of institutions like The Ohio State University, Miami University and others, have researched our percid stockings (walleye,saugeye,yellow perch and now triploid saugeye) program for over twenty years. Alum Creek Lake is one of our "intensive" study lakes and has always received one of the highest priorities for saugeye stockings and population monitoring. It goes to show you how dynamic and complex these flood control reservoirs can be. With all that effort, stocking and research plus all variables explored, we still can't guarantee a stocking success. Absolutely no one would enjoy wall to wall saugeyes at Alum more than I. The only thing I like better than catching a limit of saugeyes is catching an incidental muskie while doing it and vice versa. 

Elmer


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## Coon_Shark

Elmer/Weatherby,

Thanks for the post that helped clarify some misunderstandings.


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