# Well, I guess they done did it!



## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Jackson is entering the pedal drive market. Never thought it would happen. 
After watching the video, it looks like they addressed all of the stuff I don't like about pedal kayaks. 
This is the only sneaky video walk thru I could find:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154042768258197


----------



## BMagill (May 5, 2004)

Interesting. I do like some of the stuff here, esp. the way the drive retracts and the solid rudder control. 
On a side note, by strange coincidence, 5 different manufacturers have entered the market with brand new pedal drives, each of which requires years of engineering, within the past 60 days.

Feel Free
Jackson
Perception / Wilderness Systems
Old Town

And Hobie added reverse to the Mirage drive. Haven't heard if Native did anything special to theirs.

I guess time will tell which of these are worth dropping $2K+ for and which are half-baked prototypes rushed into production to keep up with the next guy.


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

Bubbagon said:


> Jackson is entering the pedal drive market. Never thought it would happen.
> After watching the video, it looks like they addressed all of the stuff I don't like about pedal kayaks.
> This is the only sneaky video walk thru I could find:
> 
> ...


What is 'all the stuff' you dont like about pedal kayaks Bubbagon? just curious, Im not sure I like them at all. Other than the idea of fishing hands free (which is a huge plus) seems the contraption is klunky, in the way, uncomfortable...dont know never used one, Im just making assumptions base on visual inspection. Thanks!


----------



## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Well, for a few reasons I suppose. And these are just MY OPINIONS, not preaching. But you asked.
First, it's a kayak. And kayaks are meant to be paddled, not pedaled. I mean, if you want hand free fishing, then don't start with a kayak. Because you paddle kayaks....with your hands. Get a jon boat or something and slap a trolling motor on it. 
Second, I fish rivers 99.9% of the time. More specifically smaller or more technical rivers. And the pedal drive unit hanging down below the kayak just sucks in shallow water. Scraping rocks, carrying over downed trees, etc...Most of the rivers I fish the pedal drive would be way more of a pain than it would be helpful. And rivers push you downstream anyway. I rarely wish I had another system of propulsion.
Third, they're a pain to carry, to car top, to shuttle etc...
Fourth is weeds. Getting a bunch of hydrilla wrapped around the little propeller/fins etc...and having to stop and clean it off all the time. Just not for me.
And lastly, I've been kayaking long enough to go through all of the "stages". The "let's trick this mofo out' stage. The "bring everything and the kitchen sink" stage. But now I'm full into the "let's keep this as simple as possible and bring the least amount of stuff possible" stage. So a pedal drive yak is completely contradictory to that mind set.
But obviously not everyone thinks or fishes in the same manner as me. And pedal drive yaks are a HUGE growing segment in the industry. Evidenced by all of the new entries. 
To each his own, I suppose.


----------



## SMBHooker (Jan 3, 2008)

Bubbagon said:


> Well, for a few reasons I suppose. And these are just MY OPINIONS, not preaching. But you asked.
> First, it's a kayak. And kayaks are meant to be paddled, not pedaled. I mean, if you want hand free fishing, then don't start with a kayak. Because you paddle kayaks....with your hands. Get a jon boat or something and slap a trolling motor on it.
> Second, I fish rivers 99.9% of the time. More specifically smaller or more technical rivers. And the pedal drive unit hanging down below the kayak just sucks in shallow water. Scraping rocks, carrying over downed trees, etc...Most of the rivers I fish the pedal drive would be way more of a pain than it would be helpful. And rivers push you downstream anyway. I rarely wish I had another system of propulsion.
> Third, they're a pain to carry, to car top, to shuttle etc...
> ...


Wouldn't let me double like or o would of.


----------



## Bassthumb (Aug 22, 2008)

There is a reason every smartphone is compared to the IPhone. There is also a reason why every pedal drive yak of the future will be compared to the Hobie. First, best, and have years of experience in design and testing. Maybe Jackson and others will catch up slowly to Hobie like Samsung did in the next few years. But I wouldnt jump on the bleeding edge with these other guys, if your in the market for a pedal yak now just buy a Hobie.


----------



## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Bassthumb said:


> There is a reason every smartphone is compared to the IPhone. There is also a reason why every pedal drive yak of the future will be compared to the Hobie. First, best, and have years of experience in design and testing. Maybe Jackson and others will catch up slowly to Hobie like Samsung did in the next few years. But I wouldnt jump on the bleeding edge with these other guys, if your in the market for a pedal yak now just buy a Hobie.


I just couldn't disagree more. Heck, they couldn't figure out how to make it "reverse" until this year. And that's kind of a big deal.
It's not rocket science. We're talking about pedals and gears.
If the oldest, or original was always the gold standard, we'd still be watching VHS and listening to 8 tracks. If you remember, prior to the iPhone the Blackberry was overwhelmingly dominant.
But again, not my circus, not my monkeys. I won't be buying either anytime soon.


----------



## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

I'm no engineer, but I can think of much better ways to make a kayak hands free fishing. If they can make one of these super light weight and keep the weight of the boat to about 60lbs or less, I'd be interested, but I don't know if that is possible. 

Imma get me one of them jet motors and zip up and down the Scioto the next time Bubba's out there trying to slay some of them smallies!


----------



## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Bring it, Critter. Wanna race?


----------



## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

Bubbagon said:


> Bring it, Critter. Wanna race?


Haha! We both know that I don't have the resources to buy a pool floatie much less a motorized boat.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Ml1187 will sell ya my floaties


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

lol...love the controversy. its like 'rudder or no rudder' lol. Why dont we just turn a Jetski into a bass fishing machine? Im sure someone already did this. Agree with kayaks are for paddling. I like the idea of pedaling only because of the wind and covering more water. But the aggravation of carrying any pedal unit around has to be a pain in the ass. Slap a trolling motor on it, forget about the pedals. Only thing is the trolling motor is a pain in the ass to carry around too. Whats a person to do? lol I would like a lightweight trolling motor only to use intermittently...get from point a to point b. I saw the Torquedo and its the lightest available, but for the price of it you might as well buy a Bass Tracker. Therefor I have to agree with bubbagon and keep it simple....which brings up another question...why do some kayak fishermen want to carry around so many poles and tackle with them? another pain in the ass. lol


----------



## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

robistro said:


> which brings up another question...why do some kayak fishermen want to carry around so many poles and tackle with them? another pain in the ass. lol


I get it. I was kind of that guy at one time. I think it has to do with your evolution in fishing. I also LOVE gear. So carrying less and keeping my approach simple is something I had to purposefully learn. 
I still carry a box of crankbaits of which I have yet to throw ANY of them since last year...maybe the year before that. But I'm down to two rods and about 6 different baits.
I have two different buddies who fish with us; one carries one rod and a bag of spinnerbaits. The other carries one rod and just one bag of tubes. Same color tube always. And they regularly kick our arses.
They're supremely confident in their bait. And they've learned to make that bait do all kinds of different things by varying the retrieve. 
The only downside is that one of them busted a rod tip last Sunday one mile 2 of a 10 miler. So he had to beg, trade, borrow, and steal to get an extra rod off one of us. And you know how expensive extra rods can be when you're on the water.


----------



## OnTheFly (Jul 30, 2010)

I think pedal drive is a good idea for big water rivers, lakes, and oceans. Still would never leave home without a paddle in one of those things though and they are hella expensive.


----------



## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

If I had $2 - $3k to drop on a kayak, I'd just go ahead and purchase a used all purpose fishing boat and fish lakes which is where those things operate best anyway. 

Show me a peddle drive kayak that is comfortable and about $800, and you'll have my attention.


----------



## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Here's some more info for the pro-pedal guys. It's pretty compelling:
http://jacksonkayak.com/blog/2016/08/04/coosa-fd-first-impressions/


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

well, I would have bought a boat, but due to storage and no truck to tow I opted for a kayak. Still gets me out on the water to fish, helluva lot less expensive to operate and can slap on a trolling motor should I ever want to fish a large lake. Perfect for floating the river and if I decide to tow, I can use my car. Still dont know if i buy into the pedals or not. Guess I'd have to try one out with them, but its like the cost of another kayak. Why pedal when you can have a motor? and pedals couldnt be used on down moving current anyway.

I take 4 rods on a bass boat and 2 on my kayak. I also take less tackle on my kayak. I think I have too much anyway and taking more makes it more confusing on which bait to use. I find myself constantly changing baits if Im not getting bit if Im on a bass boat, but in the kayak I methodically work the bait. I think it makes me a better fisherman to take less and only take what I know works for me. just my 2c. I dont get it when I see guys with 4-6 rods sticking out all over on a kayak. I understand it on a boat,...theres room for poles to have different baits tied on.


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

crittergitter said:


> If I had $2 - $3k to drop on a kayak, I'd just go ahead and purchase a used all purpose fishing boat and fish lakes which is where those things operate best anyway.
> 
> Show me a peddle drive kayak that is comfortable and about $800, and you'll have my attention.


HA! anything with the word 'kayak' on it seems like it has at least 50% markup. EMPTY milk crates are around 25-30 bucks.... lol


----------



## legendaryyaj (Nov 1, 2005)

Floating down river counts as paddling and cars are only supposed to be gas powered. lol!

If I had money, I'd get a Hobie. I think I saw the price was $2999 or close to it for the Jackson? They sure do have a strong cult following.


----------



## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

Kayaks have two completely different hardcore users. The creek guys have absolutely no use for the pedal drive while the flat water and southern back water guys could definitely benefit for the pedal drive. Should almost be two different categories. Kind like trying to make a bass boat a walleye boat. I will say all the new yaks especially the cheaper recreational ones have definitely introduced a lot of people to the sport that otherwise would not have had the opportunity.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

lotaluck said:


> Kayaks have two completely different hardcore users. The creek guys have absolutely no use for the pedal drive while the flat water and southern back water guys could definitely benefit for the pedal drive. Should almost be two different categories. Kind like trying to make a bass boat a walleye boat. I will say all the new yaks especially the cheaper recreational ones have definitely introduced a lot of people to the sport that otherwise would not have had the opportunity.


Hey...I fish bass outa my walley boat
......


----------



## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

I sometimes wonder if one of these "new to the sport" people will drop there Sun Dolphin and see it crack and bail on the sport altogether? lol


----------



## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

It's been close to 10 years ago, but a coworker had one of those Coleman red and white kayaks that were two pieces with a seam running lengthwise from bow to Stern. He rolled over in salt creek and filled it full of water. We lugged it over to the bank to empty it, and when he tried to pull it up on the ledge by the rope handle on the top section, the bottom separated off. Luckily we were close to a road. He stayed and fished while I padded to the pick up vehicle and drove back and got him and his gear. I can't even remember what kayak I was in. It was a borrowed sit on top of some sort. It was purple and white swirled and he would make fun of me because it looked so girly. At least it was in one piece. Lol


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

I think we all have a little 'adhd' ...this post/topic went all over the place (squirrel)....LOL!


----------



## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

I like it when it stays conversational and we just go with where it goes.
Most of the GOOD info on this site comes out when we start talking about the second or third subject in a thread....


----------



## Flannel_Carp (Apr 7, 2014)

robistro said:


> l...why do some kayak fishermen want to carry around so many poles and tackle with them? another pain in the ass. lol


I'm not big on a lot of tackle, but I always have 3 poles because I want a bait ready that will:

Cover the surface of the water
Cover the middle of the water column (Jerkbait, swimbait or shallow crank)
Cover the bottom of the water column (Med/Deep crank or tube/creature)

Having 4 flush mounts behind the seat means it's not a pain in the ass.


----------



## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

post deleted


----------



## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm looking forward to the FD to come out. I'm a big water kayaker and the idea of being either hands free or being able to paddle AND peddle to get out further and faster really appeals to me.


----------



## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Flannel_Carp said:


> I'm not big on a lot of tackle, but I always have 3 poles because I want a bait ready that will:
> 
> Cover the surface of the water
> Cover the middle of the water column (Jerkbait, swimbait or shallow crank)
> ...



At times my son has accused me of looking like a trawler with all my rods sticking out.


----------



## BuzzBait Brad (Oct 17, 2014)

Not to mention, when you own a pedaling kayak, you have to think about leg day at the gym too. Nobody is gonna want to pedal after leg day! Lol just messin


----------



## KTkiff (Jul 30, 2004)

robistro said:


> well, I would have bought a boat, but due to storage and no truck to tow I opted for a kayak. Still gets me out on the water to fish, helluva lot less expensive to operate and can slap on a trolling motor should I ever want to fish a large lake. Perfect for floating the river and if I decide to tow, I can use my car. Still dont know if i buy into the pedals or not. Guess I'd have to try one out with them, but its like the cost of another kayak. Why pedal when you can have a motor? and pedals couldnt be used on down moving current anyway.
> 
> I take 4 rods on a bass boat and 2 on my kayak. I also take less tackle on my kayak. I think I have too much anyway and taking more makes it more confusing on which bait to use. I find myself constantly changing baits if Im not getting bit if Im on a bass boat, but in the kayak I methodically work the bait. I think it makes me a better fisherman to take less and only take what I know works for me. just my 2c. I dont get it when I see guys with 4-6 rods sticking out all over on a kayak. I understand it on a boat,...theres room for poles to have different baits tied on.


I take 4-6 rods out with me all the time and they are nowhere close to being in the way. Why is it ok for a guy on a bass boat to do it if your kayak setup keeps them out of the way?


----------



## KTkiff (Jul 30, 2004)

In fact I have seen numerous boats where they have ten rods laying on the deck. I consider this to be in the way more than my kayak.


----------



## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

If I was going to make developments to avoid paddling, I'd skip right over pedaling and straight to this: http://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/products/outboards/ultralight


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

KTkiff said:


> I take 4-6 rods out with me all the time and they are nowhere close to being in the way. Why is it ok for a guy on a bass boat to do it if your kayak setup keeps them out of the way?


Im not saying noone should do it....(to each his/her own) IMO for my use I just dont see it fit to fumble around with limited room. Bring all you want.
A bass boat has a little more room on deck and storage than a kayak.


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

Rybo said:


> If I was going to make developments to avoid paddling, I'd skip right over pedaling and straight to this: http://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/products/outboards/ultralight


agreed


----------



## Flannel_Carp (Apr 7, 2014)

Rybo said:


> If I was going to make developments to avoid paddling, I'd skip right over pedaling and straight to this: http://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/products/outboards/ultralight


But then you've introduced reliance on and the weight of, a battery. 

IMO a battery powered prop on a kayak is as much as a different category/market from a peddle drive kayak as a peddle drive kayak is to a paddle only powered kayak.


----------



## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

Flannel_Carp said:


> But then you've introduced reliance on and the weight of, a battery.


I've historically offered the same thoughts in regards to a motor on a kayak. However with this option, the weight is so low that I think my initial criticisms of trolling motors on kayaks are irrelevant (15lbs all in with this option.) The hardest thing to carry would be the cost! ($1800, yikes.) When compared to a bass boat though, chump-change. My interest in the Torqueedo would be primarily for floating solo, motoring up stream as far as I could go, then having a nice 10+ miles or more to float back to my car without needing a shuttle. To your point now that I think of it, it'd be really nice to stow it away at that point and drift/paddle back. In my personal experience that would open up miles and miles of unexplored water. There's also a benefit on larger water of being able to drift slowly down a bank despite currents or wind.

Admittedly, I'm with you in preferring a lighter boat and simple set-up. I hate the idea of electronics and batteries in a day on the river. However, since moving to Texas, and having fewer friends who paddle, and bigger water to negotiate, I still want one! Hell I'd probably buy two batteries!


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

Agree on keeping it light and simple....but I think they each have their place...again, its all about your intended use, just like the kayak itself and the tackle you take.  

I stuck a 30 lb thrust on my kayak a while back. While it was a great benefit to get me to spots I wanted to fish within a few hours it was kind of a hassle to carry everything to and from my vehicle and connect it all. But once on, I forgot about all of that... until I returned to the bank..lol I'd probably put it on again if I fished a larger lake. It gets me from point a to point b quicker which allows me to spend more time fishing and less time paddling. 

This is where I think a peddal drive might have and advantage.... No battery, No electrical connections, No charging batteries...hmmm maybe I need to look into these pedal kayaks....but arent they heavier? (I need to cartop mine)


----------



## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

lotaluck said:


> Kayaks have two completely different hardcore users. The creek guys have absolutely no use for the pedal drive while the flat water and southern back water guys could definitely benefit for the pedal drive. Should almost be two different categories. Kind like trying to make a bass boat a walleye boat. I will say all the new yaks especially the cheaper recreational ones have definitely introduced a lot of people to the sport that otherwise would not have had the opportunity.


This is a good point. I can see a pedal drive being a hassle on a small stream, but for other applications it could be spot on. Kind of the same logic behind not using muskie gear to fish for crappie. On my game club there are quite a few large, deep lakes, old limestone quarries. A pedal drive would be ideal for many of them provided they're not so heavy that a one man launch and pullout becomes a struggle.


----------



## nooffseason (Nov 15, 2008)

Love my Hobie. Yes they're meant for big rivers or lakes. I would never take mine on a small river trip. Just not what it's good at. Use mine on Erie and the tribs flowing into it. Plus a couple upground reservoirs around me.


----------



## robistro (Apr 13, 2007)

nooffseason said:


> Love my Hobie. Yes they're meant for big rivers or lakes. I would never take mine on a small river trip. Just not what it's good at. Use mine on Erie and the tribs flowing into it. Plus a couple upground reservoirs around me.


makes sense...different yaks, different uses. Just like our fishing equipment


----------



## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

I typically fish locally out of a native ultimate, which I love. However, I take a yearly trip to Naples FL, and rent a Hobie with the pedal drive for the salt and the glades. The distance you can cover with the Hobie is just huge. Legs are way more powerful than arms, and pedaling is a pretty efficient motion. It's all good until you plow full speed into an oyster bed, but the distance is well worth the trouble. In the small water I usually fish locally, though, I'm not sure the extra hassle makes sense.

In any case, it's good to see more people making these units. I think they have a place.


----------



## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

I'll have to look into it. I'm also looking into electric motors on yaks. What can I say, heart disease sucks. I've already sold half my fleet. Gonna sell my pontoon too.


----------



## Stuhly (Jul 6, 2009)

B&C kayak motor mounts on FB have a nice selection of add on


----------



## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

Curious why Jackson hasn't released any updates on the flex drive


----------

