# What air rifle do you use?



## kayak1979

I know a lot of people are getting into air rifles, especially the PCP air rifles. I have a Benjamin Marauder .25 cal PCP air rifle that is shooting 900 fps and with Eun Jin 43 grain .25 cal pellets have 77 FPE. More than enough power to knock down squirrels. I'm curious if there are any other air gun enthusiasts on OGF?


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## jonnythfisherteen2

I own airguns myself. Recently bought a hatsan 1000s striker in .22 cal. Also own a daisy 880, crosman storm xt .177, and a custom modded 1322 carbine. Need to replace spring for the storm and put in a new o ring for the 1377, so my gun for hunting is the hatsan. Im getting one hole groups at about 20 yards as long as I do my part with h&n field target 16 grain domed pellets. Crosman premier hollow points work for me as well, and thats good because I dont have to get them of the internet.
you plan on shooting ***** or possums with that?


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## kayak1979

Hatsan air rifles are really nicely made. I've seen alot of good reviews on them. If you haven't already check out Ted's Holdover YouTube channel. All airguns and he films squirrel, and pigeon hunts a lot. I also have a Benjamin Trail Xl 725 break barrel. I would like to get a .22 cal someday. Air rifles are a new obsession of mine and I can see you've got it as well with all the guns you have. In my break barrel I shoot Benjamin 27 grain which are also made by crosman since Crosman owns Benjamin. Nice grouping with your hatsan. You'll be getting squirrel no problem this fall! I plan on focusing on just squirrel and rabbits. I would like to get a coyote if I ever see one.

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## HookBender

Great timing for this thread! With the price/availability of .22lr ammo nowadays i opted to go the air rifle route this year. Expecting my Hatsan 1000x .22 to be on my doorstep early next week! I am still very new to modern air rifles and this will be my first other than Crosman's and Daisy's of yester year!


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## M R DUCKS

Anyone have a scope they recommend. Am I correct that it has to be one specifically made for air guns? Thanks!


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## jonnythfisherteen2

Yes, hatsan rifles are nice guns. Looks like you obtained the wood stock version of mines. Would have went that way but the synthetic was cheaper so I got that one. Few words of advice:
Replace the scope or omit it. Its usually a cheap variable that actually wont stand up on such a rifle. I replaced mines with a centerpoint 6x32 mildot AO compact scope. 
If you have accuracy problems, visit a airgun forum to learn more about what the cause of such problems is.
try multiple pellets for your gun. Best pellets are the most accurate ones, bonus if its a pellet made for hunting.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

M R DUCKS said:


> Anyone have a scope they recommend. Am I correct that it has to be one specifically made for air guns? Thanks!


For spring guns, yes. Some scopes arent made to deal with the double recoil and extra vibration springs produce. They can be destroyed. I like a scope with mil-dots and adjustable objective, the centerpoint I reccomended is great because it has more dots than normal, and is perfectly fine for longer ranges.


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## kayak1979

HookBender said:


> Great timing for this thread! With the price/availability of .22lr ammo nowadays i opted to go the air rifle route this year. Expecting my Hatsan 1000x .22 to be on my doorstep early next week! I am still very new to modern air rifles and this will be my first other than Crosman's and Daisy's of yester year!


That's a smart move you've made getting into air guns with the price of ammo. I stocked up on pellets this summer. I currently have 4000 rounds of Benjamin 27 grain domed pellets, and 1300 rounds of Eun Jin 43 grain pellets. That should last me quite some time! Airgundepot is where I get my ammo. They offer a deal if you buy 8 you get the two lowest price free and usually you can find coupon codes online for free shipping. I buy all my Benjamin Domed through wally world online as for 7 bucks for a tin of 200... you can't beat that.



M R DUCKS said:


> Anyone have a scope they recommend. Am I correct that it has to be one specifically made for air guns? Thanks!


I have two Centerpoint scopes as well... and as was mentioned the mildots are nice to have if you're doing any shooting from a distance. I recommend personally going through Airgundepot for my supplies. You will want a scope that is specific for air rifles, which all will be on that site.


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## HookBender

Thanks for that Jonny, when testing pellets what should one be looking for when trying to find "the right one"? 
There's a lot of em out there.

Also keep midwayusa in mind for airgun supplies, they're prices are showing pretty competitive and have super duper quick shipping.


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## kayak1979

I would get a domed pellet for accuracy and hunting. I have found that pointed pellets don't fly as accurately, but that's just from the experience I have shooting in my rifle. Domed travel faster and penetrate further than pointed as well. There are so many out there to choose from, a lot of times the company will recommend one that is suited for your rifle.


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## HookBender

Hatsan recommends using a domed pellet from their brand name line of course. 

Jonny, whats the noise level of the striker like?


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## jonnythfisherteen2

HookBender said:


> Hatsan recommends using a domed pellet from their brand name line of course.
> 
> Jonny, whats the noise level of the striker like?


For a pellet, id say try h&n's stuff. Their pellets are high quality. crosman has a high amount of hard alloy in their pellet, so it doesnt deform as easily on game, but if its accurate, it doesnt matter as much. Id also try jsb pellets.
the sound on the rifle is fairly loud, people will know youre shooting, but its not as bad as a firearm, atleast until the break in period is over. Most of it comes from the spring, the other half is the pellet flying fairly close to the speed of sound. It will be even worse if you use alloy pellets, which can ruin a spring air rifle.


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## snag

i ,ve had a few yrs now a remington nitro piston 22 made by crosman, with a leapers 3-9 variable scope, i have used predator poly mags 16 gr. and h-n sport baracuda match 21 grains,but i have better groups with crosman premiers hollow points, it,s a nice rifle not very loud and still not broke in all the way, hope to get that done this fall after those nut munchers. i,ve gotten some ammo from pryamid air at there first store, now they relocated to solon.


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## Cajunsaugeye

I have a Crosman storm xt w/grtIII trigger upgrade and leapers scope.Shoots very good w/upgraded trigger.

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## Skippy

Been shooting a RWS model 45 in 177 cal. for at least the last 10 years. Still has the stock RWS 4 power scope that came with it. Shoots the crosman hollow points into 1 raged hole at 25 yards. There's been at least 3500 pellets through this gun. Countless chipmunks, blackbirds, ect with it.
When I first bought it the patterns were terrible then I read where you need to put at least 250 to 300 pellets through it before it will start shooting good.
To be truthful I'm almost afraid to touch or make any upgrades on it.


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## bruce

I have an RWS model 45 with a buriss sportvew 3x9. Bought it in 1992 it is a tack driver.


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## beetlebailey

gamo bullwhisper 1300 .177 its a tackdriver at 30 to 40 yards..


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## Fishingisfun

Grew up with air guns many years ago. First hunting capable air gun was a pump up Benjamin rifle I wore out shooting. My favorite was my co2 Crossman I think it was a model 180. It could shoot one hole group at 20 yard. Good enough to make a difference in the local squirrel population for many years. Found Archer Air selling a clone of that old gun so I bought one. Not that powerful but it shoots well. Took a couple of squirrels with just like when I was a kid. Tried several spring guns and I just could not get them to shoot well for me. I was told hold them loose so they could move during the double recoil. Tried holding tight, It didn't work for me couldn't hit much of anything. The PCP gun s are something I have been looking at for awhile now. It would likely shoot like my co2 gun I'm thinking.


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## 2120Tom

I too got back into air rifles this year. Decided to take a stand against the over-population of chipmunks I've noticed around my yard and them digging around my foundation.
I bought a Stoeger X20S in 22cal from PA and like it a lot. It's a heavy gun and I shoot mostly from shooting sticks, rested against a tree, doorframe or benchrest the accuracy surprised me. It shoots the 14.3gr Crosman Premier HP or domed best and can pretty much do one-ragged-hole at 15/20 yds. I've eliminated over 2 dozen lil' diggers so far and they seem to have gotten the message to stay away from "that" yard.
Air gun popularity must be catching on,, while in one local WalMart the other day I went to pick up another tin of pellets and they had empty boxes where all the preferred ammo used to be.


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## ClickerCrazy

anyone shoot a Crossman fury? I have one i bought my son for Christmas. I've shot it a few times...150 to 250 rds. I hardly pick it up because it seems to throw a terrible pattern. Came with one of those high point scopes and doesn't have any fixed sights .


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## jonnythfisherteen2

ClickerCrazy said:


> anyone shoot a Crossman fury? I have one i bought my son for Christmas. I've shot it a few times...150 to 250 rds. I hardly pick it up because it seems to throw a terrible pattern. Came with one of those high point scopes and doesn't have any fixed sights .


1. Shoot 500 rounds through it
2. Replace the scope
3. Give it a artillery hold. There are articles showing what it is.
4. Tighten the screws on it


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## Bwana J

I have an RWS mod 45 .177cal that belonged to my Dad. I got it last year from my Brother. Last season I took 23 squirrels with it, a real tack driver and is pretty quiet compared to the Gamo Hornet I was using. This thing has had thousands of rounds thru it and still shoots like new. Loaded with Crosman Premier hollow points it's a real killer on tree rats. I've taken them out to about 40 yds and would recommend it to anyone.


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## kayak1979

Bwana J said:


> I have an RWS mod 45 .177cal that belonged to my Dad. I got it last year from my Brother. Last season I took 23 squirrels with it, a real tack driver and is pretty quiet compared to the Gamo Hornet I was using. This thing has had thousands of rounds thru it and still shoots like new. Loaded with Crosman Premier hollow points it's a real killer on tree rats. I've taken them out to about 40 yds and would recommend it to anyone.


That's what I like to hear Bwana. I'm really looking forward to squirrel season this year with my air rifle.


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## Skippy

It's good to read that others like those RWS model 45's in 177 cal. Other then keeping it wiped down and making sure all the screws are tight once in awhile I will put a few drops of gun oil down in the plunger hole..(don't know if that's the right term for it) I'll let it sit overnight then shoot it. You'll get a little mist of oil out of the barrel and it darn near sounds like a 22 mag going off for the first few rounds but I'd like to think it helps keep thing lubed up. 
Maybe it's just me but I took a 3 inch piece of 1/2 inch doll rod then drilled a small hole in one end. Cut the head off of a small nail then filed it smooth then epoxied in the hole. I use this to start the pellets down the barrel about 1/4 inch. Like I said, maybe it's just me but I do believe it helped tighten up my groups a little.


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## fishnohio

I have 3 spring guns
Remington vantage 1200 in 177 cal
Benjamin titan np in 22 cal
Benjamin trail np xl 1100 in 22 cal
I have taken many birds with my Remington and 2 squirrels and 36 squirrels with my titan from ranges of 15 to 45 yards all head shots and I just got my xl about 2 weeks ago and boy is it a killer I shot a crow at 104 yards with it, I have it dead on at 25 yards and dime sized groups out to 40 yards.
the Remington prefers 7.9 grain cphp pellets and has a 3x9x32 cp scope while the titan prefers 14.3 grain crosman destroyer pellets and has a 6x24x50 bsa ao mil-dot scope....tack driver at 40 yards.and the big daddy the xl has a 3x9x40 cp scope with ao and mil-dot reticleand prefers the 14.3 grain cphp pellets and it also has a sling on it because it weighs just under 10 pounds but it is a awesome air rifle I cant wait till squirrel season. anyone new to springer air rifles need to know the hold is very important loosely hold the gun and also do what the others have suggested on here and you will have a blast and practice,practice,practice....happy shooting.....Mike


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## HookBender

I decided to go with the .25 instead of the .22 after watching some of "Teds Holdover" knockdown comparison videos. 
First impression of the gun is pretty good. I can already tell that the scope is junk. Going to sight it in and get through this season before dropping any more $$$ into it. Really looking foward to putting a tin through this baby though.

Kayak, that marauder of yours sounds like a real beast!


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## kayak1979

Hookbender, which model did you get in .25... Hatsan or Benjamin? That's great you watched Ted's Holdover, great channel. You will be happy that you went with the .25 You will have a lot more FPE knock down power. It does seem that most of the scopes that come with the guns generally are not that great, but so far I have made due. A friend of mine ordered his Marauder from a company and he was able to choose which scope and bought a really nice one compared to the stock one from Benjamin that I have. I do shoot my Marauder and really like it, but to be truthful I really enjoy shooting my Benjamin Nitro Piston XL 725 .25 cal break barrel air rifle a lot too. I was shooting apples off tree limbs the other week. =)


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## Skippy

Was shooting hickory nuts off of the tree with my wife the other morning. Missed as many as we hit but it was fun never the less.
Been looking at that Benjamin trail in .22 but I think I have to tell the wife it's for her.


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## kayak1979

Skippy said:


> Was shooting hickory nuts off of the tree with my wife the other morning. Missed as many as we hit but it was fun never the less.
> Been looking at that Benjamin trail in .22 but I think I have to tell the wife it's for her.


That's so great! Are you thinking about getting the trail in NP2 or the first model?


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## HookBender

Kayak, I went for the Hatsan.
The bang for you buck scenario roped me in. I understand you get what you pay for but I just hope me and the air rifle get along well.

Apple/nut plinking! Now we're talking! Living in an apartment I miss out on all the fun!

Snag and Cajun,
How do you like those Leapers scopes?


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## snag

I really like the scope it is really clear and I like it better than the one on my22. 


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## Cajunsaugeye

A WORLD of difference from just about any stock scope.They more than do the job for the money.

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## jonnythfisherteen2

so, today I managed to obtain predator metal mags. They are 17 grains and have a metal tip. Should be effective on the squirrel.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

tested the metal mag today on a squirrel. Good results. Shot was a angled shot from 10 yards that passed straight through the forearm (squirrel was curled up feeding) and went through and penetratrd into its lungs and clipped the spine. Metal tip passed on and out the hide. The pellet itself stayed in and stopped at the other side of its hide. Im inpressed. Now to see if the metal tips will stay in.


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## HookBender

16.99/200 Yikes!
Nice take though Jonny.


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## HookBender

Well, after saying that I didnt want to put any more money into the setup this season of course I decided to upgrade the scope. Went with the Leapers 4x32 mil dot reticle and an offset mount.
After taking another look, Jonny, looks like the same mount you have on your Hatsan.

Ill throw up a pic when i get home from work.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

It may be the same mount. I used a compact scope so the scope would be thrown back a little to compensate for the shorter length and the long length of pull that the gun has.


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## HookBender

What made you decide on the compact scope Jonny? If you dont mind me asking.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

It was a pretty good deal when I got it, and it had a modest zoom, mil dots, adjustable objective, and all in only 8 inches. Its also somewhat lighter than the other scope I have. Which is good, because it doesnt make the already heavy hatsan into a tank.


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## HookBender

Gotcha, I know what you mean, the wood stock on mine doesnt exactly scream "lightweight".


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## jonnythfisherteen2

Oddly enough, I want a wood stock for mines so I can cut it down and make it fit me.


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## buckeyebowman

Wow! This thread is right up my alley. I was getting ready to start a new thread asking if anyone used an air gun to hunt limb rats and bunnies, but you beat me to it! 

I can't see blasting away with a shotgun to shoot a squirrel, and my buddy has a thicket full of over sized cottontails behind his house that needs a little thinning, the less noise I make the better.

I went to a local outdoor store, who shall remain nameless, who carried one brand of airgun, and they were all fairly expensive. A few days later I stopped at our new FFF store and looked around. I went up and down the gun aisle and didn't see a single airgun! I asked a counterman if they had any, and he told me they were in the front corner of the store. So, I wander up there and they have tons of different makes and models, and at much better prices than I've found elsewhere.

Now, I've read in some review sites on the net that if I'm going hunting I should go with the .22cal and not the .177. True? Now I see here that .25cal is available. Who makes those, and would you recommend them over others? I've also read that Gamo starts out good, but doesn't last. True? I've been told that RWS is the best airgun manufacturer in the world.True? And what are "alloy" pellets, and why will they ruin a spring rifle? 

I'm a total newb and looking for info. All replies appreciated!


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## Fishingisfun

Very quiet on responses to you questions. Reading all the posts you will see references to people in the know. Several web retailers have detailed information on various calibers comparisons. Video test of various models and calibers. Find and read all the comparisons decibels on guns can vary if you are shooting where you want to be quiet be sure your not buying something that is going to be loud. Some higher end gun go supersonic with alloy pellets. Sound like a 22 rim fire. A squirrel can and has been taken with all the calibers you named. IMHO the head shot is the best for squirrels and likely rabbits I would guess. My best success was with a .22 cal mid powered air rifle years ago. The effective range is not great but it did the job. Spring guns do seem to be quieter. The artillery hold was something I did not master so I stay with Co2 or compressed air. Bought my gun from Archer Air co2 in .22 cal. I tried the light weight pellets. They did not shoot well out of the guns I owned. They did not ruin anything I tried them in. Had not heard anything about damage to air guns. The .25 sounds interesting with more power delivered to a squirrel it should be good. Some of the posters here have the 25. Cannot tell you about the brands you asked about. Many people use them so they must be good. Good luck with you hunt for the best rifle. Once you buy one air rifle you will likely find a good reason to buy a second. 



buckeyebowman said:


> Wow! This thread is right up my alley. I was getting ready to start a new thread asking if anyone used an air gun to hunt limb rats and bunnies, but you beat me to it!
> 
> I can't see blasting away with a shotgun to shoot a squirrel, and my buddy has a thicket full of over sized cottontails behind his house that needs a little thinning, the less noise I make the better.
> 
> I went to a local outdoor store, who shall remain nameless, who carried one brand of airgun, and they were all fairly expensive. A few days later I stopped at our new FFF store and looked around. I went up and down the gun aisle and didn't see a single airgun! I asked a counterman if they had any, and he told me they were in the front corner of the store. So, I wander up there and they have tons of different makes and models, and at much better prices than I've found elsewhere.
> 
> Now, I've read in some review sites on the net that if I'm going hunting I should go with the .22cal and not the .177. True? Now I see here that .25cal is available. Who makes those, and would you recommend them over others? I've also read that Gamo starts out good, but doesn't last. True? I've been told that RWS is the best airgun manufacturer in the world.True? And what are "alloy" pellets, and why will they ruin a spring rifle?
> 
> I'm a total newb and looking for info. All replies appreciated!


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## HookBender

As I am rather new to airguns as well, I am hoping that some of the more experienced guys will chime in on your questions buckeyebowman.


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## Sethktmman

Get a benjamin np2 best thing eva


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## snag

I use the cross man nitro piston 22 , this isn, t a springer type. Gets quieter with more use. Go to pyramid air . Com for lots of info , the 25 caliber is the maurader and uses a air tank or a hand pump to get air stored in the cylinder, I almost got one but the price changed it all.. 


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## kayak1979

Sethktmman said:


> Get a benjamin np2 best thing eva


Appreciate the play on words...


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## kayak1979

buckeyebowman said:


> Wow! This thread is right up my alley. I was getting ready to start a new thread asking if anyone used an air gun to hunt limb rats and bunnies, but you beat me to it!
> 
> I can't see blasting away with a shotgun to shoot a squirrel, and my buddy has a thicket full of over sized cottontails behind his house that needs a little thinning, the less noise I make the better.
> 
> I went to a local outdoor store, who shall remain nameless, who carried one brand of airgun, and they were all fairly expensive. A few days later I stopped at our new FFF store and looked around. I went up and down the gun aisle and didn't see a single airgun! I asked a counterman if they had any, and he told me they were in the front corner of the store. So, I wander up there and they have tons of different makes and models, and at much better prices than I've found elsewhere.
> 
> Now, I've read in some review sites on the net that if I'm going hunting I should go with the .22cal and not the .177. True? Now I see here that .25cal is available. Who makes those, and would you recommend them over others? I've also read that Gamo starts out good, but doesn't last. True? I've been told that RWS is the best airgun manufacturer in the world.True? And what are "alloy" pellets, and why will they ruin a spring rifle?
> 
> I'm a total newb and looking for info. All replies appreciated!


BuckeyeBowman, I would really consider getting a nitro piston rifle rather than a springer. You can keep the nitro ready to fire for hours and not worry about anything like you do with spring air rifles. 

Personally I purchased a Benjamin Trail NP .25 cal and also a Benjamin Marauder. The Marauder is pricey, but is by far the most accurate air rifle I have ever shot. You do need a hand pump for it and pumping up the rifle you will get a good 20 shots before you should fill it the rifle back up. The rifle is dead accurate though. I have dime size groups out to 50 yards, and that's as far as I have shot it. If you really are going to invest in a air rifle please consider a nitro piston even if it's one of the lesser expensive ones like the Benjamin Titan NP. You'll be happy that you got a nitro piston rather than a springer. Just my opinion after shooting friends air rifles, hours of reviews and finally making my own purchases.

.25 is much better for great impact on squirrels, rabbits and even larger game like coyote and raccoon.

I would avoid alloy pellets altogether. They may give you a high FPS rate for a pellet, but the (FPE) foot pounds energy are far less because of being such a light grain pellet. There are a lot of great air rifles out there. I recommend watching some video reviews of air rifles on Ted's Holdover youtube channel.

Happy Hunting


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## jonnythfisherteen2

And for a spring or nitro piston, it might as well be the equivalent of dry firing. You can mess your gun up doing that.


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## Cajunsaugeye

If I had a $700 budget,Marauder.$400 budget,Discovery,$250 budget,trail xp,$150 budget,titan,and some other gamo and crosman Nitro piston Guns.Some less than $120.If money is tight,a cheap NP gun is fine(.22 preferred).The only real difference in those vs the little pricier ones is the trigger.The pull and feel,well,SUCK.BUT,a CDT trigger [email protected]$30 will make those guns shoot NICE.I put one in my Springer Storm XT and have loved it ever since.Easy to install and well worth the $$$.And NO alloy pellets!!!!!

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## buckeyebowman

kayak1979 said:


> BuckeyeBowman, I would really consider getting a nitro piston rifle rather than a springer. You can keep the nitro ready to fire for hours and not worry about anything like you do with spring air rifles.
> 
> Personally I purchased a Benjamin Trail NP .25 cal and also a Benjamin Marauder. The Marauder is pricey, but is by far the most accurate air rifle I have ever shot. You do need a hand pump for it and pumping up the rifle you will get a good 20 shots before you should fill it the rifle back up. The rifle is dead accurate though. I have dime size groups out to 50 yards, and that's as far as I have shot it. If you really are going to invest in a air rifle please consider a nitro piston even if it's one of the lesser expensive ones like the Benjamin Titan NP. You'll be happy that you got a nitro piston rather than a springer. Just my opinion after shooting friends air rifles, hours of reviews and finally making my own purchases.
> 
> .25 is much better for great impact on squirrels, rabbits and even larger game like coyote and raccoon.
> 
> I would avoid alloy pellets altogether. They may give you a high FPS rate for a pellet, but the (FPE) foot pounds energy are far less because of being such a light grain pellet. There are a lot of great air rifles out there. I recommend watching some video reviews of air rifles on Ted's Holdover youtube channel.
> 
> Happy Hunting


Thanks for all the replies. This comment makes total sense to me. I am primarily, for whitetails, a bowhunter. There are some guys who like to shoot a light, fast arrow, and others who like to shoot a heavy, slow arrow. I've never belonged to either camp because I feel that there is a happy medium. Yes, the super light arrows come out of the bow with awesome fps numbers, but they don't have enough mass to retain much KE (Kinetic Energy) down range. The big, heavy arrows, come lumbering out of the bow slowly, but still pack some punch at the target. The issue with these is that you have may have to deal with a "rainbow" trajectory. Somewhere in the middle lies happiness! 

I'm going to definitely looks up this Ted's Holdover and see what he has to say, since so many have cited him here. Thanks again for your help.


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## kayak1979

This is a good one to start.


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## kayak1979

Went out today and sat down at the base of the tree and look straight ahead 20 yards...immediately noticed a squirrel head facing down on the side of a tree about 10 yards up. It's always nice when a hunt works out that easy and quick!


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## jonnythfisherteen2

kayak1979 said:


> Went out today and sat down at the base of the tree and look straight ahead 20 yards...immediately noticed a squirrel head facing down on the side of a tree about 10 yards up. It's always nice when a hunt works out that easy and quick!


Looks good. I have yet to see wild fox squirrels. All the ones I have seen are greys and that one black I took was pure luck.


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## Texican

Just got a gamo big cat 1400 shoots good with red fire pellets going to take it out after work tomorrow for the first time


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## Bluefinn

I'm also looking for one & guys at work have the gamo varmint stalker. Says you can get them on sale at fff for $109. I'm only using it for backyard squirrels so I want one on the quiet side. They say it's as loud as 22 shorts. How loud is your big cat? I want to stay around $100 or so but still have the power & quietness to kill squirrels.


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## Cajunsaugeye

If you use high velocity pellets,yes it'll be loud.1050fps or so breaks sound barrier.A ,177 or .22 cal air rifle will be pretty danged quiet(especially nitro pistons) as long as you use lead and keep below the sound barrier.A 1400 fps gun is gonna be loud.Common sense.A .22 at @800 fps or a .177cal moving 1000 or so fps is gonna destroy a squirrel and be quiet too. 

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## Texican

Yes cajun is rite about that my gun with lead pellets is not loud at all but you put the platinum pellets in it and it's as loud as a 22 so I stick with the lead pellets should work real good for you bluefin hope this helps you


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## buckeyebowman

Cajunsaugeye said:


> If I had a $700 budget,Marauder.$400 budget,Discovery,$250 budget,trail xp,$150 budget,titan,and some other gamo and crosman Nitro piston Guns.Some less than $120.If money is tight,a cheap NP gun is fine(.22 preferred).The only real difference in those vs the little pricier ones is the trigger.The pull and feel,well,SUCK.BUT,
> a CDT trigger [email protected]$30 will make those guns shoot NICE.
> I put one in my Springer Storm XT and have loved it ever since.Easy to install and well worth the $$$.And NO alloy pellets!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my VS870 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


OK, you guys have talked me into a nitro piston rifle. I did visit the pyramid air site and they seem to have some decent deals. There was a review for one of the Benjamin models that did confuse me. It seemed the guy was complaining that they shipped the rifle with the scope unmounted. What's the big deal? That's the way my muzzleloader was shipped. I mounted the rings and scope and sighted it in with no problem. That's actually one of the things I'm good at! Frankly I'd worry more about a rifle shipped with the scope mounted considering how UPS and Fedex handle some of their packages! He seemed to suggest that the other model was shipped with the scope mounted.

Thanks for the tip about the trigger upgrade. One thing I hate is a long, stagy, creepy trigger! I'll probably have to invest in an upgrade. And I figure to be shooting lead pellets. I want some punch when it arrives at the target. I did notice that Gamo advertises those high fps numbers only when shooting their "titanium" pellets. I'm guessing that's code for alloy.


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## kayak1979

My Benjamin Nitro Piston 725 .25 cal came with the scope unmounted. I would prefer it being off as well to know I'm securing everything properly and putting the scope placement where I want it with my eye.


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## buckeyebowman

OK, I went to Ted's Holdover last night and stayed up way tooooooo late watching airgun videos! I have to admit that 'ol Ted is an engaging personality. But what an education! What it educated me about is just how much I DO NOT KNOW about airguns! I have come to some conclusions. If I was made of money I would immediately go out and order myself a Daystate Huntsman Classic! The fit and finish on some of the higher end airguns rivals anything centerfire rifle producers are doing! 

And some of the manufacturers I was totally unfamiliar with. I suppose that's not all that surprising. It's like thinking you know something about shotguns because you know about Benelli and Beretta. Then you find out about Krieghoff and Perazzi and Purdie, etc. 

I do have one question. I'm sold on the nitro-piston idea. I stopped at the local FFF today. They had a bunch of Benjamns on the rack, but they also had some Crosmans (who I understand is the maker of Benjamins). They had a Nitro Venom on the shelf for a very nice price. Anyone have anything to say about Crosman airguns?


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## Cajunsaugeye

They'll work fine.More important to upgrade.Scope and trigger for serious shooting.Don't get me wrong,scopes will work and trigger will make it fire.However,your shooting enjoyment will be enhanced greatly by upgrading it.If I bought one,I'd immediately order the trigger from CDT and a leapers scope.Probably getting near $100 in upgrades(provided you put trigger in yourself.Its not hard).And also check website to make sure they have trigger for the rifle you're looking at.Any of those "cheap" nitro piston guns will be very sufficient for hunting and general shooting once,at minimum,trigger is switched.

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## 2120Tom

Could not agree MORE with Cajunsaugeye. I own a Nitro Venom .22, first thing I did after making certain it fired was to replace the trigger with a GRT lll "CharlieDaTuna" trigger, makes a world of difference in shooting enjoyment.
My gun was very erratic shooting early on due to over lubrication in the action. I've since pretty much re-built this rifle to make it the best it can be,, upgraded scope, replaced plastic pivot bolt barrel washers with brass and installed a new Tesla piston seal.
It will now put pellets touching in a 1" circle @ 25yds and works well for backyard pest critters.

Not meaning to steer anyone away from a bargain,,,, but keep in mind the old adage "you get what you pay for" ....and they can be made better  for not much $ if you're not concerned of voiding warranty and are somewhat mechanically inclined.


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## buckeyebowman

I'm pretty handy and certainly not afraid of working on anything. I put a new clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing in my old Datsun p/up with nothing more to go by than my Haynes manual. The shop wanted $600+, I checked around and could buy the parts for about $140! I had to open up my computer to install the ethernet port when I wanted to get online. I fixed my buddy's Remington Model 1896 double barrel shotgun, built in 1904, when he fell and busted the buttstock. I'd never done one before, but you have to look really close to see that it was broken. He was heartbroken when he busted that gun, and it gives me a great sense of satisfaction to see him knocking down pheasant and grouse with it again! And just last weekend I cut a section of rotten tranny fluid line out of his truck and replaced it with high pressure hose. No leaks and the truck drives just fine! So, yes, I am definitely a DIY'er! 

From the research I've done I see a trigger upgrade as an absolute must! In fact, probably the first thing needed. That was the most common complaint I read about in all the reviews, and even heard about it on Ted's Holdover. You can make even a half assed scope work as long as the mounts are good, properly tightened, and the rifle fires when you expect it to and you know how it shoots. I worked on the trigger of my Rem 700 ADL, and it pulls at a nice 2 1/2lbs w/no creep! Nice! 

The only reason I asked about the Crosman was that I understood them to be the manufacturers of Benjamin airguns. I figured how much difference could there be? It wasn't all that much cheaper than some of the Benjamin models, but I figured that's money that can go toward a new trigger. I am on a budget. I also was able to look at either a Benjamin Trail or Titan NP. Whoof! Even with the best sling on the market I don't know that I'd want to haul that beast around the woods all day! It was the one with the bull barrel. Probably great for bench rest shooting. 

BTW, does anyone know anything about Ruger airguns? FFF had one on the rack, and it seemed to be very well made. It was a synth stock gun, but the checkering was so well defined and sharp, it seemed like the gun was glued to your hands! Unfortunately I think it's a "springer" type gun and not a NP. 

I also saw on Ted's Holdover that someone puts together "kits" of just about every type of pellet made, so you can figure out just exactly what ammo your rifle performs best with. This is genius! Why isn't someone doing this with off the shelf centerfire rifle cartridges! 

Anyway, that's where I'm at so far. Still doing research and asking questions, but getting closer to making a purchase. Look out bunnies and limb rats, here I come!


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## Cajunsaugeye

If money's good,I'd do Benjamin trail,upgrade trigger and scope and start shooting.The reason I said scope upgrade is that my storm xt came w/a non adjustable AO scope.Was blurry at all but close range and no way to adjust.If the one you buy has an AO scope,use it.Should work fine for what it is.I still recommend a Leapers scope as a not terribly pricey upgrade.And,as far as pellets,if you're gonna shoot lead,I'm 95% sure you're gonna end up shooting Crosman premier HPs anyways so was just trying to cut some time off your search.

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## 2120Tom

I posted in this thread early on about my favorable experience with my Stoeger .22 air rifle, it's a spring gun that shoots very quiet and accurate. I did do the trigger swap on it and added a quality scope.

I wanted a piston gun for the reason of being able to leave it cocked for long periods so I got the Nitro Venom, also .22 and after much reading at GatewayToAirguns.com I decided to do the upgrades to make the gun better. A lot of good information and people on that site willing to help wherever they can. 
I found out from a member there,, to work on (dis-assemble) piston guns a spring compresser is NOT needed. I removed the action/piston from my NV using an Irwin woodworking grip style clamp. It was an easy job.
There is also many decent videos on YouTube showing the dis-assembly/repair of airguns.

You asked about the Ruger models,, I believe ? I read that some are clones of the Chinese B model and some are clones of the Diana/RWS models. They don't seem to have the following that some other guns do, but that doesn't mean they're bad. 
From the new found interest/knowledge I have of air rifles,, it seems many break-barrel guns are "cloned" after the Chinese guns and most are manufactured in China for American companies. 
PyramydAir is an awesome site to learn about products also and for us NE Ohio guys,, it's usually a one day shipment.


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## snag

Also with ordering from pyramid air if your not far from Solon you can save shipping and go up and pick up your stuff. My brother was going to do that when ordering a scope mount for his old Ben Sheridan, and the customer service guy was going to cut him a better deal by picking it up..


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## jonnythfisherteen2

snag said:


> Also with ordering from pyramid air if your not far from Solon you can save shipping and go up and pick up your stuff. My brother was going to do that when ordering a scope mount for his old Ben Sheridan, and the customer service guy was going to cut him a better deal by picking it up..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


 I did it that when I got my hatsan. I saved on shipping and got everything right then and there. No waiting a week or more ^_^


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## kayak1979

Here is my collection of air guns. Top to Bottom: *Benjamin Marauder* .25 cal with Center Point 4-16x40 mm Riflescope Dual illuminated red/green Mil-Dot reticle | *Benjamin Trail* NP XL 725 .25 cal with stock Center point scope | *Crosman 2240* Pistol .22 cal - CO2 with Leapers Golden Image 38mm Red/Green Dot Sight and TKO Muzzle Brake. I just purchased my Crosman 2240 last week and I'm finding out there is a huge cult following with this gun. People make mods to it that are endless. Some even convert it to pcp from co2 which would be amazing to do so I could use it with my pump for the Marauder. I shot my marauder yesterday at 75 yards at aluminum cans and I'm hitting them square without needing to use a mil dot either. The Marauder is by far the best investment I ever made. I never have to worry about finding .22 bullets at the store again, especially when I use the .25 cal - Eun Jin 43.2 grain pellets.


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## buckeyebowman

Cajunsaugeye said:


> If money's good,I'd do Benjamin trail,upgrade trigger and scope and start shooting.The reason I said scope upgrade is that my storm xt came w/a non adjustable AO scope.Was blurry at all but close range and no way to adjust.If the one you buy has an AO scope,use it.Should work fine for what it is.I still recommend a Leapers scope as a not terribly pricey upgrade.And,as far as pellets,if you're gonna shoot lead,I'm 95% sure you're gonna end up shooting Crosman premier HPs anyways so was just trying to cut some time off your search.
> 
> Well, I already know that I can find those on the shelf at FFF. Just curious, but what brand scope came on your rifle?
> 
> Sent from my VS870 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app





kayak1979 said:


> Here is my collection of air guns. Top to Bottom: *Benjamin Marauder* .25 cal with Center Point 4-16x40 mm Riflescope Dual illuminated red/green Mil-Dot reticle | *Benjamin Trail* NP XL 725 .25 cal with stock Center point scope | *Crosman 2240* Pistol .22 cal - CO2 with Leapers Golden Image 38mm Red/Green Dot Sight and TKO Muzzle Brake. I just purchased my Crosman 2240 last week and I'm finding out there is a huge cult following with this gun. People make mods to it that are endless. Some even convert it to pcp from co2 which would be amazing to do so I could use it with my pump for the Marauder. I shot my marauder yesterday at 75 yards at aluminum cans and I'm hitting them square without needing to use a mil dot either. The Marauder is by far the best investment I ever made. I never have to worry about finding .22 bullets at the store again, especially when I use the .25 cal - Eun Jin 43.2 grain pellets.


Interesting. Most, but not all, of the air rifles I looked at came equipped with Center point scopes. Usually the 3X-9X-36mm (I believe). What do you think of the Center point scopes? I looked through every one of them, and the image seemed nice and sharp. There are mounts all around the store, so I looked at the mounts at the back of the store, probably 50 yards, and it looked good. Like I said before, I see a trigger upgrade as a must, but if the scope works OK, then I can think about that later. 

And 43.2 grain pellets?! Man, those have to pack a punch!


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## kayak1979

I have not had an issue at all with the center point scopes. I think the key is upgrading the trigger which I really need to do with my Benjamin Trail. The trigger pull on the Marauder is fantastic. I'll be looking forward to hearing what rifle you choose.


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## buckeyebowman

kayak1979 said:


> I have not had an issue at all with the center point scopes. I think the key is upgrading the trigger which I really need to do with my Benjamin Trail. The trigger pull on the Marauder is fantastic. I'll be looking forward to hearing what rifle you choose.


Same here! Right now it's all kind of swirling around in my mind. I guess that the Ben Marauder is my dream gun. Well, I should rephrase that. The Ben Marauder is my "little" dream gun. The Daystate Hunstman Classic is my "big" dream gun! Either one would put a crimp in the budget, though the Marauder a little less of one. FFF has one for $549 as I remember. What do you think? Should I bite the bullet (or the pellet) and go for the gold right off the rip? It was my Mom who told me, long ago, to buy what you really want and what will make you happy. It's called buyer's remorse for a reason. Oh Lord! I can feel my resolve disappearing by the minute!


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## Cajunsaugeye

Buy it if you have a pump already.If not ,gonna be spending A LOT more than $549.

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## kayak1979

Benjamin Marauder. If you get the Marauder and the pump I still think the investment is well worth it. The reason I started looking into air guns was because I just grew more and more disgusted going to stores looking for .22 ammo and the shelves empty. I then started researching about bug out bags and how a great item to have with one is an air rifle. I purchased the Trail first, but to be honest I would rather have saved that money and just bought the Marauder right away. If you look some sites have kits for the Marauder and sell the pump with it. I actually bought my Marauder from walmart.com online, they are cheaper on there. That's where I got the pump too. You can get a tin of 200 pellets for $8.48. They were $7.49 something and I bought a bunch of them this summer. 200 pellets in one tin for that price and you'll have a long time shooting that. I see the long term investment in the gun with the fact how hard it is to find .22 ammo and the cost savings of the ammo. Not to mention it's nice to shoot and if you happen to miss shoot again because of how quiet the gun is. This is the video that sold me on the rifle.


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## Cajunsaugeye

BUT,the trail(with a trigger upgrade) will do all you ever need for $400 less.You can go buy a centerfire of shotgun for hogs w/the difference!

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## kayak1979

Cajunsaugeye said:


> BUT,the trail(with a trigger upgrade) will do all you ever need for $400 less.You can go buy a centerfire of shotgun for hogs w/the difference!
> 
> Sent from my VS870 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


But let's not kill my addiction with air rifles ;-)


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## Cajunsaugeye

Hey,to each their own.I bet the Marauder is awesome.I just didn't want to mislead the guy that $549 was gonna buy a ready to go gun.And also didn't want to mislead him into thinking he had to spend $700+ on an air rifle to pop a few squirrel.If he,or anyone WANTS to,more power to them.IMO,the Marauder is overkill for his needs.At most,I'd say the discovery.Even that may be a bit excessive w/ how nice an upgraded NP gun can shoot.If springers were the only option for cock guns,the Discovery or Marauder would be a miles better choice.Springers can be accurate enough w/proper work and proper hold,but just to go shoot,pcp or Nitro are worlds easier.All depends on how deep the wallet is,I guess.

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## buckeyebowman

It occurred to me after I made that last post that the Marauder takes a separate pump. Well, resolve has returned! Back to the drawing board.


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## buckeyebowman

OK, had the chance to do a little more research on the Benjamin Trail today after the Browns game. I went back and watched the review on Ted's Holdover again. I noticed it was for the Trail NP, not the NP2. I found another site called Paul Capello's Airgun Reporter, apparently sponsored by Pyramyd Air. I found 2 reviews there, one for the Trail NP and another for the Trail NP2. And they were definitely 2 different rifles. The Trail NP was a wood stock, and the NP2 was the black synth stock. From what I've been able to gather, the NP2 is a fairly significant upgrade of the NP. New trigger, what they call (I think) the CBT, or Crisp Break Trigger. Still, a 2 stager that was described as a "little long", but still broke at an average 3lb., 4oz. Not all that bad. Less force needed to cock it, and it's quiet. Plus, the guy was shooting smaller than 1" groups at 35 yards. Or, as his sidekick put it, "I guess that's sub-1 minute of squirrel head accuracy!" 

To do that I guess the scope, a Center Point 3X-9x-32mm, had to perform halfway decent. At least as long as it, and the mounts, would stay on the barrel! As they explained, Crosman had sent them one of the first production guns of the NP2 for review, and apparently, they had a small "issue" with the first hundred or so. It seemed the mounts would just fall off the barrel! They showed it in the vid. The guy took a shot and the scope, rings, and rail just fell off the barrel onto the bench! CLUNK!! OOPS! How embarrassing! Apparently that problem has been rectified, and the gun is good to go. 

The complaints were few. Grip size, the fact that the gun is "hold sensitive", which I understand is fairly standard for break barrel guns. The trigger is not the absolute best. But, as Ted put it, "You can't expect to get what you get, or shoot as accurately, with a $200 airgun as opposed to a $2,000 airgun! Learn to shoot a cheaper gun well, and you'll blow people's doors off when you get something better." I can appreciate that thinking. I hunted deer for years with a crappy, eccentric wheel compound bow, shooting XX75 aluminum "telephone poles" off the string w/fingers and a glove, and I still managed to kill deer! Not to mention shooting instinctive, or with sights that were pure crap! Now that I have what I have today, I should be able to shoot better. And, I do!

My mind is getting closer to being made up!

Oops! Almost forgot. I saw several comments about cleaning the barrel being the first order of business. I have a rod and brushes for my .22 rimfire. Would these be OK? I saw other comments that you should never use rimfire brushes on an airgun. Apparently the airguns have softer steel and you'll ruin the bore. One guy suggested using only patches. I can appreciate that argument since there's no burned propellant residue left in the barrel. Maybe just some metal fouling. What say you?


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## 2120Tom

Have read many comments on cleaning airguns and not using rods due to damage of the bore.....now I agree that the quality of steel probably doesn't stack up to the hardness of a powder burner, but, if you have a good rod and nylon brush and use care,, it's my belief that it should not hurt it.
My Crosman was filthy when I got it, I initially used my grass-trimmer line and patch boresnake soaked with Eezox pulled from breech to clean the heavy stuff out. Then a Dewey one piece coated .22 rod and nylon brush followed by several boresnake patches finished the job. I've noticed no issues and see no damage when looking down the bore.

And,, airguns are similar to rimfires for cleaning....once you get it shooting consistently good,, don't clean 'til it starts shooting bad.


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## kayak1979

The best way to clean an air rifle in my opinion is using cleaning pellets. Just shoot it like a regular pellet and it cleans it. No need to worry about destroying your barrel by doing something wrong. All of the guns from Crosman/Benjamin include manuals and specific instructions on cleaning/maintenance.


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## buckeyebowman

2120Tom said:


> Have read many comments on cleaning airguns and not using rods due to damage of the bore.....now I agree that the quality of steel probably doesn't stack up to the hardness of a powder burner, but, if you have a good rod and nylon brush and use care,, it's my belief that it should not hurt it.
> My Crosman was filthy when I got it, I initially used my grass-trimmer line and patch boresnake soaked with Eezox pulled from breech to clean the heavy stuff out. Then a Dewey one piece coated .22 rod and nylon brush followed by several boresnake patches finished the job. I've noticed no issues and see no damage when looking down the bore.
> 
> And,, airguns are similar to rimfires for cleaning....once you get it shooting consistently good,, don't clean 'til it starts shooting bad.


Heard some comments in some reviews about guns "dieseling" during the break in period. I guess this refers to pellets burning some of the lube in the bore. Seems that would end up making the bore dirtier than it needs to be. Why not just clean the gunk out of the bore first? 



kayak1979 said:


> The best way to clean an air rifle in my opinion is using cleaning pellets. Just shoot it like a regular pellet and it cleans it. No need to worry about destroying your barrel by doing something wrong. All of the guns from Crosman/Benjamin include manuals and specific instructions on cleaning/maintenance.


Cool idea! Sweet and simple. Any solvent or lube on them, or just shoot them through dry?


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## Cajunsaugeye

A dry patch or two is pretty "sweet and simple" too.This isn't that hard.Over thinking not required.

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## 2120Tom

My understanding.....it's not dirt or lube "in the bore" that causes dieseling, it's lube in the compression chamber.
The bore on my Crosman NV was very dirty as I mentioned, but the compression chamber and entire action seemed to have an excessive amount of oil / lube coating the inside. After a couple hundred pellets, it was still dieseling which tends to cause poor accuracy. I also noticed oil at the rear of the action where it meets the stock,, that's what made me dis-assemble and clean things out.
I ordered a new seal, de-burred all the cut-outs on the action, cleaned the chamber really well and re-lubed lightly with moly paste then re-assembled.
Within 10 shots with a new seal the dieseling had stopped and accuracy improved to the point where I "liked" this gun.
I realize many do not plan to buy a gun and then have to spend more money and time to make it shoot to our expectations,, but with "some" $300and less $ guns, it seems to be just the way it is.


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## kayak1979

2120Tom, I read that you installed one of the GRT-III triggers on your air rifle. Was it difficult to install? I'm thinking about possibly upgrading that onto my Trail XL someday.


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## 2120Tom

Easy to install instruction found on CDT website. Also believe there's video, possibly on website or YouTube.


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## buckeyebowman

Great clarification! Thanks all. Sometimes you have to learn new jargon to understand what's really going on.


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## buckeyebowman

Today I am the owner of a Benjamin Trail NP .22Cal equipped with a Center Point 3X-9X-40AO scope, a tin of Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum 14.3gr lead pellets, and a cleaning kit! The scope is mounted and if I can get out tomorrow, I plan to start putting some rounds through it!


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## 2120Tom

Good for you! I'm not claiming to be an expert here....but as I mentioned before I have taken my NP Nitro Venom completely apart and made it better, the Trail action is identical, so if you have any questions or issues, PM me and I'll offer what I know. Good shooting.


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## kayak1979

buckeyebowman said:


> Today I am the owner of a Benjamin Trail NP .22Cal equipped with a Center Point 3X-9X-40AO scope, a tin of Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum 14.3gr lead pellets, and a cleaning kit! The scope is mounted and if I can get out tomorrow, I plan to start putting some rounds through it!


You're going to have a blast, I think you made a good choice in going with Benjamin. The nitro piston is really nice to have. Let us know how it shoots.


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## buckeyebowman

Got a chance to go out to the gun club pistol range this PM and put 50 rounds through my new Benji. It had quite a "bark" the first 10-20 rounds, but quieted down significantly after that. Also experienced some "dieseling", but that seemed to completely disappear at 30-40 rounds. I have to admit some surprise at that since, when I unpacked the rifle, it seemed that lube was about to drip off the trigger! I cleaned that up, ran a couple of dry patches through the barrel, mounted the scope and waited for today.

I left my "box of stuff", which means sled, staple gun, tape, push pins, targets, etc., at home. "Left" meaning I forgot to load it! I guess I was pretty anxious to shoot this gun, huh? Arriving at the pistol range I discovered, at 25 yards, a nearly pristine rifle sighting target with the 1" squares. I don't know if the club puts those up for members or not, but I'm thankful for whoever left it. I shot off a bench with no sled, just my elbows on the bench. After 3 shots I could tell I was on the paper, about 3"-3 1/2" left and 1/2"-1" low. I kept shooting at the bullseye just to see how consistently the gun shot. Well, it shot very consistently. So much so that after 30 shots, I decided to start fiddling with the scope, which I originally had no intention of doing. 

To move a scope to the right 3" at 25 yards calls for 48 clicks! This is a 1/4 MOA scope at 100 yds. I don't like to make that big a move all at once, I kind of like to "sneak up" on it. So, I divided it in half, and moved right 24 clicks, and up 8 clicks. I shot 10 more rounds, and the group moved as I'd hoped. So, for the last 10 shots I divided in half again, and moved the scope right 12 more clicks and up another 4 clicks. All shots clustered in the lower left hand quadrant of the bullseye! I tried to count each individual pellet hole, but I couldn't. I have to think that I shot through some of the same holes!

Then, I wondered about power. On the right hand side of the range was a target with 1/2" OSB between the posts. On the side facing the shooter were production markings, and some in the lower half were pristine, no bullet holes. I just couldn't resist it! So, I loaded up, and sent a couple shots down range. As it turns out, this gun has no problem putting Crosman Premier 14.3g lead pellets through 1/2" OSB! I guess that will take care of bunnies and squirrels.

I am, overall, very happy with this purchase. I will say, however, that the trigger pull is wayyyyy tooooooooo lonnnnnnnnnnnng! The effort in pulling the trigger seemed quite consistent, but it was so long! When is the damn gun going to go off! I can definitely see a trigger upgrade in my near future. On the other hand, I can't see what people have to complain about with Center point scopes. The image was crisp and sharp, the parallax correction worked perfectly, and I hit what I was shooting at. What more can you ask? 

I also "left', meaning "forgot", my camera at home. Next session out, when I am really starting to "fine tune" things, I promise to have it with me so I can post some group pics,


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## 2120Tom

Great to hear you had a good first experience. Do the trigger upgrade sooner than later and you will find your experience to be even more satisfying......no more "when is this thing going to fire" thoughts.

I've read that some fellows get lucky with their CP scopes and they last,, others have not had such good results, hopefully yours will be long lived.

Can't beat the Crosman Premier pellets quality and cost when they shoot good for you. Critters beware !


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## kayak1979

Glad to hear you got your rifle out and look forward to hearing success with small game!


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## buckeyebowman

I have a couple more questions, one not very involved, and one that kind of is.

In the owner's manual, such as it is, I'm advised to put a drop of Crosman RMCOIL down the compression chamber every couple hundred shots or so. Was at the local FFF where I bought the gun today. They have more air gun stuff than anybody else around, but none of this oil. Is this stuff like regular gun oil, like RemOil? I hoped to find it locally and not have to send away for it. I have about 100 shots through the gun and want to have the product on hand when I need it.

Question #2. About the trigger upgrade. Looking around the web I came across several vids showing a "home grown" trigger upgrade employing simple washers. I was kind of suspicious since these guys were, well, just guys! Then I found one from a guy who seemed serious and reputable and has a website called "My Airgun Reviews", and he didn't use a washer, he used what he called an "rc bearing" and even gave dimensions. 5x8x2-1/2mm or 5x9x3mm. Had a video showing the complete process, and it didn't look very difficult at all. He didn't really explain what an rc bearing is, but I'd have to guess that these are bearings used in radio control vehicles. What do you think? It might be worth a shot, and if I don't like it I can still order a GRTIII.

A trigger upgrade of whatever description is a definite must. Last session I shot off a sled and the gun didn't group as well as when I just shot with my elbows on the bench. I'm guessing that this might have something to do with what I've heard about this gun being "hold sensitive", and also from the overly long trigger pull.


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## Cajunsaugeye

Oil,Crosman silicone chamber oil.EBay and it'll be to you in a few days.
Trigger,if you're a "tinkerer" then try it if you want.For me,it was easier and smarter to spend $35 and just bolt on a reliable,safe,crisp,tried and highly praised trigger.To each their own on that one, I guess.As for accuracy,you don't really wanna bother w/worrying about it till you have another couple hundred shots through it.But if you're shooting on a sled then you haven't read enough on how to shoot these guns accurately anyways.You DO NOT want a sturdy rest.The gun HAS to recoil naturally and w/out any hindrance from you to be accurate.I never "grip" mine.I'll hold on to a tree,post,something and lay gun on my arm or back of my hand.Fingers never wrap stock at all.Trigger hand is very light,no squeezing of fingers.Snug in shoulder,but not braced.Forget EVERYTHING you learned about shooting other long guns and you'll begin being accurate w/your air rifle.

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## 2120Tom

I tried the rc wheel bearing trigger, it was a "good" difference from factory pull / creep.....still not as "nice" or adjustable as a GRT lll.


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## buckeyebowman

Thank you for the replies!

Cajun, I got the same feeling in my second shooting session, that shooting off a sled was just not working! There were some strings where the first 2 shots were in the bull, and the next was 4" high left! Then 1 more shot in the bull, and the next 3 1/2" low! The gun did not group anywhere near as well as it did when I just held it in my hands. Plus, there were some shots when the gun seemed to want to "jump left" at the shot. I don't know if this was due to the sled, or the length of the trigger pull. I guess I'm going to have to learn that "artillery hold"! 

As far as the trigger goes, after I closed out here, I went on Google and entered "rc be", and rc bearings was at the top of the list! So I clicked it and came up with a ton of places confirming my guess about what they were. I hit a site called Boca Bearings that had a "dimension" search, which also confirmed that the sizes I was looking for were available. There's a hobby shop 2 minutes away, so I decided to stop in there and ask. Turns out he had both sizes quoted in the vid I looked at. They cost me a total of 6 bucks and change! So, I'll try those and keep on shooting. If I'm still not satisfied, I can always go for the CDT upgrade.

Also, the guy from "My Airgun Reviews", named Kenny I believe, found that he got the best accuracy from Air Arms Diablo Field Heavy pellets at 18+ grains. His original review of the Trail NP was lukewarm at best, however he did a second review after some mods. One thing he did was replace the piston seal since the high and low numbers off the chrony were about 150fps apart! He figured something was amiss, took the gun apart, and found a "wrinkle" in the seal. Whether it was made wrong or installed wrong, who knows? Anyway, the performance of the gun improved quite a bit, and he wound up making it a "night hunter" equipped with "spot" and laser lights! 

Imagine that, after saying that he "would not hunt with this gun" in his initial review! I don't know if I'll be able to get the work done this weekend. I may have to go out and sit in a tree looking for deer, depending on the weather.


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## MassillonBuckeye

I think you want to keep your sight picture as long as possible since the projectile is slower. How you accomplish that is up to you. Competition shooting looks like many folks rest the foregrip on their hand and others actually grab it. The stock is locked into their shoulder though.

Then theres this guy shooting tight groups with a bench rest. I dunno. lol Not sure why he's calling it an artillery hold when he's using a bench rest..






All I know is all this talk has me looking at a new air rifle


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## Cajunsaugeye

He just said "VERY LIGHTLY slide gun butt stock to shoulder but let it recoil".So NO it is not locked into shoulder.Can't be for accuracy.Gun HAS to move freely and exactly the same every time.Read,watch,try anything.Loose hold is only thing that gets good accuracy from a spring or piston gun.And that includes butt stock to shoulder.

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## All Eyes

I picked up a Beeman Sportsman RS2 22 cal. recently and am pretty impressed with it for the money spent. The scope it came with is not that great, but after some practice I can still get pretty good results inside of 30 yards or so. Trying different pellets through it now to see what works best. This is the first air rifle I've had for 20 plus years and I forgot how fun plinking was.


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## kayak1979

And this is the reason I prefer a PCP air rifle. No worries. Just ordered my fourth gun the marauder .22 pistol.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

I liked my multi pump 1322 carbine for the reason of being easy and not finicky. I could never afford a pcp or the cost to run one, but a co2 rifle would probably be a more viable option for me. Which is why I have been looking closely at a qb79 bundle from archer air. A bit on the high side for my taste but 180 or so isnt too bad considering what im getting.


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## buckeyebowman

Well, took the Benji Trail NP apart and put the 5x8x2-1/2mm rc bearing in it. I'm holding the 5x9x3mm bearing in reserve until I see what the first one does. Figured I'd go this way first since the bearings were available locally from a hobby shop 2 minutes away. It was extremely easy to do, took about 10-15 minutes. Looks like rain moving in tonight and tomorrow so don't know when I'll get my next chance to shoot. Maybe Wednesday, but I'd sure like to sit in a tree stand w/my bow. Well, I can always throw the rifle and a tin of pellets in the car. Let you know how it goes.


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## MassillonBuckeye

Bought a stoeger x20s Saturday at Vances. Boy is she quiet! Got the scope zeroed and it's pretty accurate. Made a pellet trap out of some old clothes and a couple 5 gallon buckets. Hooray for shooting in the back yard!


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## buckeyebowman

Wound up cleaning the bore today, and it was pretty dirty. Since I had to cock the rifle to get the barrel to hang in the open position, I decided to shove a pellet in the barrel and see how the trigger was. I wasn't shooting for precision, just feel, splatting the pellet into my backyard garden. What a difference! No more 9 mile long trigger pull! At most it was 3/8" to 1/2" long. Can't wait to get out to the range and punch some paper! I figure I'll have to reset the scope since I've had the action out of the stock and back in, but that doesn't really matter. As long as it groups well is all I care about!


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## buckeyebowman

Had a chance to pump about 30 more rounds through the Benji today before going to sit in the deer stand. What a difference that trigger mod made! And, it's amazing how hold sensitive this gun is. I tried firing it with the fore end just resting on a foam pad, and it didn't like it one bit! It wants to be fired out of the hands! I guess, for a hunting situation, that's not all that bad. The scope didn't even need to be re-zeroed, and the groups were pretty decent.


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## 2120Tom

I prefer to shoot mine off a rest for paper targets....that way I know where it's hitting. I still use a modified "artillery style" hold/rest.
What needs to be remembered,, spring or piston airguns recoil in both forward and rearward direction, so the gun can't be "too" secure in your hold and must be allowed to recoil the entire shot cycle. 
When in the woods I'll rest against a tree when possible. Sniping chippers in the yard, I use X sticks. Tough to admit,, but I'm getting too old and weak to shoot accurately off hand.


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## Stars-n-Stripers

kayak1979 said:


> And this is the reason I prefer a PCP air rifle. No worries. Just ordered my fourth gun the marauder .22 pistol.


Kayak, getting ready to pull the trigger on a DayState Wolverine........yeah I wish. Seriously close on an Syn MRod, from the picture it appears you went with high mount rings on your scope, maybe too high? Scope I'm considering is 44mm objective, think a medium height would work on that?


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## buckeyebowman

2120Tom said:


> I prefer to shoot mine off a rest for paper targets....that way I know where it's hitting. I still use a modified "artillery style" hold/rest.
> What needs to be remembered,, spring or piston airguns recoil in both forward and rearward direction, so the gun can't be "too" secure in your hold and must be allowed to recoil the entire shot cycle.
> When in the woods I'll rest against a tree when possible. Sniping chippers in the yard, I use X sticks. Tough to admit,, but I'm getting too old and weak to shoot accurately off hand.


I've noticed a little more "wiggle" in my hold as well. I have to keep reminding myself about proper breathing. Inhale deeply through the nose, then slowly let the breathe out, also through the nose. Somewhere near the end of the exhale the crosshairs will settle down nicely. Of course, that's what makes a nice, crisp, predictable trigger so important. If you hold too long you start wiggling all over again!


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## kayak1979

Stars-n-Stripers said:


> Kayak, getting ready to pull the trigger on a DayState Wolverine........yeah I wish. Seriously close on an Syn MRod, from the picture it appears you went with high mount rings on your scope, maybe too high? Scope I'm considering is 44mm objective, think a medium height would work on that?


Yeah that would be nice! I just saw an amazing video on Ted's Holdover newest video he has out where he shoots a pigeon on a silo at 150 yards! I have the high mount rings because I wanted to be sure I had clearance for the round clip. The reason why I have them as well is because the scope I have is for a picatinny rail and the marauder has a dovetail rail. That is the only reason for the high scope. It shoots fine, been killing squirrels left and right. Accuracy is amazing. You will not be disappointed if you do end up getting an MRod. I think the medium height would work fine, I was just overly cautious when ordering the adapters because of fear it wouldn't clear the clip on the mrod.


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## Stars-n-Stripers

Are you happy enough with the hand pump, or wish you had gone with a tank? I've seen a lot of paint ball tanks for sale pretty cheap, I know I'd need to have different valves put on, an proper attachments. I can't believe these stinkin pumps are that much.


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## kayak1979

The pump works great. Its easy to use. If anything I would get a Hill pump vs the Benjamin one. I don't see the point of getting a tank when you would have to continually go get refilled and pay for it.


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## Stars-n-Stripers

Why would you go the extra for the Hill?

Tank supposed to get six to eight fills, that's quite a few shots? Only a few bucks to get refilled.


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## kayak1979

The hill has something to trap moisture so it doesn't get in the rifle tank. It is supposed to be easier to pump too. I shoot usually 16 shots between 3k to 2k psi and pump back up. Never have needed anymore shots while hunting.


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## RogerS

I just found this thread. I also got into PCP air guns recently, I picked up a .25 Synrod in the fall and had a ball squirrel hunting after I filled my deer tags. I got Air Venturi carbon fiber bottle to fill from. I also picked up an LED varmint light, raccoons aren't at all bothered by red light. My goal is to get a Coyote with it.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

Pcp seems to be the way to go. My airgun luck has been limited. My hatsan has had a shifty poi so I need to go find out what I can do about that. Im taking one of my dead crosmans to be rebuilt for 65 bucks. And my 1322 is off with a airgun forum member for a repair (my fault) and part installation.


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## Popspastime

RWS 45 .177 like Skippy but with a 2 x 7 scope, I've had the gun for some time and it's accurate as all get-out. Took a bit to find the right pellet but then POW on the mark.


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## canoe carp killer

kayak1979 said:


> Benjamin Marauder. If you get the Marauder and the pump I still think the investment is well worth it. The reason I started looking into air guns was because I just grew more and more disgusted going to stores looking for .22 ammo and the shelves empty. I then started researching about bug out bags and how a great item to have with one is an air rifle. I purchased the Trail first, but to be honest I would rather have saved that money and just bought the Marauder right away. If you look some sites have kits for the Marauder and sell the pump with it. I actually bought my Marauder from walmart.com online, they are cheaper on there. That's where I got the pump too. You can get a tin of 200 pellets for $8.48. They were $7.49 something and I bought a bunch of them this summer. 200 pellets in one tin for that price and you'll have a long time shooting that. I see the long term investment in the gun with the fact how hard it is to find .22 ammo and the cost savings of the ammo. Not to mention it's nice to shoot and if you happen to miss shoot again because of how quiet the gun is. This is the video that sold me on the rifle.


Good post, and I loved that video!! Is there a link to purchase that rifle? And does it come in a package? How much? Getting ready to research it now lol


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## creekcrawler

We're not hunting, just plinking. Picked up a Springfield M14. It's only .177 & Co2, but it is accurate as heck.
Supposed to shoot @700 fps. Been having a blast with it in the backyard. Just a heads up for anyone looking for a "plinker". Plan on trying to fit a wood M14 stock to it just to give it a more realistic weight & feel.


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## Popspastime

*Just a note*,,, If your pellet rifle doesn't crack a bit look for a better fitting pellet, you'll see that some of the pellets make the gun sound quiet and some of the better made ones will make the gun crack a bit. That's because the better pellets seal better against the lands of the barrel. End result, more speed, better accuracy.


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## kayak1979

It's about that time of year when I break out the air rifles and start shooting again. I'm going to try video recording some of the target shooting and see how far I can be accurate with each rifle.


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## RogerS

56 days till Small Game season opens!


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## creekcrawler

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Hooray for shooting in the back yard!


Got several targets hanging at different distances in the yard and we shoot right off the back porch. I think the wife is having more fun than me!


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## pipefitter42

I have a gamo whisper .22 with the scope that came with it. For the life of me I cannot get it to shoot consistently. I've tried different types of pellets and I know not to hold it too tightly. I bought it for squirrel hunting but it's pretty useless to me if I can't shoot a decent grouping at 20-30 yards! I've heard that it's a big problem with the gamos b/c it's a break action. Anyone else know anything about this? Wondering if I should remove the scope and try the sights. Any help would be appreciated! I know I'm not that bad of a shot!


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## kayak1979

How many shots have you put through the gun so far? Generally most companies will say around 500 or possibly more before it's broken in and accurate. I had the same situation with my first break barrel. A benjamin .25 nitro piston.


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## pipefitter42

Maybe only a couple hundred or so...I usually get frustrated and put it away after a few 3" groupings lol. I will keep at it, hopefully that's all it is. Thanks a lot, I wasn't aware of that.


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## HookBender

I am still having the same issue as well. Took over ten shots at squirrels last year and missed every one. Scope and iron sights. Very frustrating when I have to go home and eat chicken after a day of hunting!
Guess I'll keep pounding lead through it when I have the chance.


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## Cajunsaugeye

Try different pellets also.Day in/day out MOST rifles like crosman premiers.Some don't.There's not even a cheap air rifle made that doesn't hold decent groups w/trigger work,proper technique,proper break in and its favorite pellets.


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## HookBender

I honestly haven't even gave it an honest break in. It's a whole new ballgame for me, those springers are!


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## wildlife53

I have a Gammo and it is a tack driver. I use the gold plastic pellets. I use it for squirrel hunting in more urban areas.


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## Texican

I ended up putting a new scope on mine the scope that came with it I couldn't get it to shoot any groups out of my big cat 1400 with the silent cat pellets I'm getting dime size groups


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## HookBender

You guys have motivated me to sit in the garage for a few hours tonight and waste some moderately expensive lead pellets!


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## HookBender

Ran another 200 rounds through the Hatsan last night, she is now making groups the size of a quarter!
I am still making some hold errors from time to time but I am still happy with the outcome. 
I am still in awe of the power that this gun has. Only makes me more excited for the 1st!
I haven't posted any pics since I upgraded the scope and mounts so here she is beside my Mossy 500C.


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## HookBender

How am I supposed to know if the GTR triggers on CDT will fit my Striker or not?


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## Cajunsaugeye

Don't see it listed as compatible. Maybe contact them through phone or email.Hope you can get one.It makes a WORLD of difference!


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## HookBender

The site says it fits more models than listed. Guess I will have to ask some questions like you say. 


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## kayak1979

@HookBender It is funny you mention about the raise in pellet cost. Last Spring 2014 I was buying Benjamin .25 cal domed pellets through walmart for $7 for a tin of 200. Now they are $14.99 on walmarts website. Airgun Depot and Pyramid air still have them for 10.49 so that is decent, but I was kinda shocked at the jump in price. Maybe I had something to do with me ordering so many tins last summer when ordering so many buy 4 get one free on Airgun depot lol. I have enough pellets to last quite a few years now though. I'm sure the scarcity of .22 rimfire ammo played a role possibly in airgun pellets going up in price with more opting that route. I shot some this week and I'm all sighted in with my Benjamin Marauder .25 cal rifle and Benjamin Marauder .22 pistol with stock extension.


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## HookBender

Ok, I will blame you then! 
For the .25 14$per/200 seem to be the norm which is still cheaper than .22rimfire so I am just whining. 

I am still jealous of your Marauder!


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## HookBender

The .25 that is!
I am thinking that I may be sick on opening day.
Feel a cough coming on.


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## pipefitter42

Tried the crossman premiers in my gamo whisper .22 and the difference was amazing! I was consistently shooting quarter sized groupings shouldered at 30 yds. I had previously been shooting a few different types of gamo brand pellets and the groupings were terrible.


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## HookBender

4 more days guys! You all ready?


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## HookBender

Just a heads up, my Hatsan is up in the marketplace.


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## kayak1979

HookBender said:


> Just a heads up, my Hatsan is up in the marketplace.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you replacing it with something else?


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## HookBender

kayak1979 said:


> Are you replacing it with something else?


I am undecided. I have been telling myself that I would rather have a NP Trail but the rim fire dark side has been twisting my arm pretty hard lately.

My whole thing is that I don't have enough to time or the place to practice with a springer gun. I never could dial in a hold on the thing. I have plenty of experience shooting rifles accurately but the double recoil of a springer kind of forces me to do exact opposite of what is natural when holding a rifle.
Will a NP platform solve my problem?




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## buckeyebowman

2120Tom said:


> I prefer to shoot mine off a rest for paper targets....that way I know where it's hitting. I still use a modified "artillery style" hold/rest.
> What needs to be remembered,, spring or piston airguns recoil in both forward and rearward direction, so the gun can't be "too" secure in your hold and must be allowed to recoil the entire shot cycle.
> When in the woods I'll rest against a tree when possible. Sniping chippers in the yard, I use X sticks. Tough to admit,, but I'm getting too old and weak to shoot accurately off hand.


Been a while, but I stopped back to revisit the thread. I may have hit on something the last time I shot the Benji. I was at the hunting club moving a hanging stand, which took a little longer than expected. I still had a little daylight left so I stopped at the range. Still having varying levels of success with the artillery hold, and I'm sure that my arms being tired and sore from the work didn't help.

Inadvertently, I tried something a little different. I simply made a fist with my left hand, laid the heel of my hand on the bench and rested the stock of the air rifle on the top of my fist where the thumb and forefinger are. Suddenly I put 5 pellets nearly through the same hole! Obviously something worthy of further investigation, and I'm hoping I can adapt it to a field situation, maybe with the aid of a shooting stick.

We'll see what happens.

EDIT: I didn't realize this would post right behind HookBender's. He seems to be having the same issues as me with the springer gun. And I understand the rim fire thing. I dearly love my old Winchester Model 61 "gallery gun". Maybe the fist thing might work for you. First chance I get I'm going to hang a fresh Orange Peel target and keep working on this. Also, after my last shooting session, I was able to plant one in the ribs of the nasty old groundhog who's been raiding my garden! I couldn't get a head shot, so I took what I could get. I haven't seen him since. Hoo Rah!


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## Cajunsaugeye

I never "grip" the gun.It lays on my hand or arm always.When squirrel hunting,I reach across and grab a sapling or slightly bigger and gun then lays on my arm.Don't grip w/the trigger hand hard either.These puppies,even cheap ones like mine,w/a trigger upgrade and the right hold,are still capable of GREAT accuracy.


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## buckeyebowman

I understand that. When I bought the Benji I read a lot of articles and watched a lot of videos about the artillery hold. The initial results were ehhhhh. One time someone left a foam pad at the range so I tried resting the fore end on it. The rifle did not like that at all! Which kind of surprised me. 

It now occurs to me that maybe I'm finally getting the gun shot in and it's accuracy is finally beginning to manifest itself. Heck, I'm not even halfway through my first tin of Crosman Premiers! 

Thanks for the tip about a hunting application for that type of hold. I was out with the bow the other day, and had the biggest grey squirrel I've ever seen let everything in the woods know I was there! Oh, how I wished I had the pellet gun then! 

I do have a question about barrel cleaning. How often? Since there's no burned propellant I'd imagine not very. And should I run an oiled patch through it or leave it dry?


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## Mr. A

Cajunsaugeye said:


> I never "grip" the gun.It lays on my hand or arm always.When squirrel hunting,I reach across and grab a sapling or slightly bigger and gun then lays on my arm.Don't grip w/the trigger hand hard either.These puppies,even cheap ones like mine,w/a trigger upgrade and the right hold,are still capable of GREAT accuracy.


I have done the "tree rest" many times in my life and had great results. My issue was when taking long shots accurately and standing in the open. A shooters pole would work but I hate needing to carry extra equipment.

A buddy of mine who is exceptionally adept with a rifle showed me a stance that was unbelievably awkward looking but surprisingly simple and comfortable after only a few shots.

Stand like normal, whatever is comfortable. Trigger hand is holds the rifle near the shoulder as usual. The forehand is the trick. (If you are right handed like me) the left arm crosses under the rifle bending the elbow up, hand and fingers flat, like your holding a serving try. The rifle sits across the fingers. Not the palm!

Your forehand will be closer to you because of the way your arm is bent. However, you can rest your elbow against, or on top of, your belly. You back will likely be slumped, some is ok depending on your build, but a straight back is preferred. Don't allow too much slump because your breathing will seriously hamper your ability to hold a steady sight picture.

I tend to like shooting a targets that are lower than the tip of the barrel so I am leaning into the rifle. Air rifles I will shoot at whatever height as they tend to be quite a bit lighter and leaning back some hasn't had a noticeable affect on the accuracy of my shots.

Same shooting principles apply to this stance, don't grip the rifle too tightly with the trigger hand, and because your hands are closer together adjustments need to be in accordance with the shooters ability to steady the weight of the rifle for follow up shots and secondary target acquisition.

Hope this helps someone else as much as it helped me!


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## Stars-n-Stripers

buckeyebowman said:


> I do have a question about barrel cleaning. How often? Since there's no burned propellant I'd imagine not very. And should I run an oiled patch through it or leave it dry?


If you go to Pyramid Air, I think there is an area for Pyramid Air Academy, lots of great videos and info. One that I watched said cleaning was not necessary, that once you clean it, as soon as you put a pellet through, it leaves a graphite film from the pellet, which the manufacturers use. They do make "cleaning pellets now", a felt pellet that you fire through the gun. 

I just received my break barrel benjamin, and did clean it, carefully, using Cleansoil, did get a lot of black out of the barrel. From what I've read, if you do choose to clean it, do NOT use a brass brush or other abrasive things, as these barrels are not the same as shotgun barrels. If you do some googling you can find info on forums.


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## buckeyebowman

Thanks for your replies. Mr. A, I watched a ton of videos about the artillery hold, and your description brought one to mind. The guy recommended finding the balance point on the stock and placing the left hand (RH shooter) under it, which seems close to what you were doing. The balance point of my rifle is right in front of the trigger guard. It weighs close to 7lbs, so it's no lightweight. Long story short, the rifle didn't like it but then again I'm reminded that I was still breaking it in. The owner's manual states that up to 100 rounds may be required to break the gun in, while I've seen posts here and elsewhere that say it's more like 500 rounds. I figure I'm at about 200-250. More shooting is in order.

Stars-n-Stripers, I cleaned my barrel shortly after first starting to use the gun, and I got a lot of black out of the barrel also. I figure it may come from the factory like that to retard corrosion. I look through the barrel now and it looks fine. I bought a plastic bristled brush for it and some of those felt pellets. The instructions said all you had to do was fire the felt pellet through the barrel and it was clean! I wound up having to push them out with a .22 cleaning rod!


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## Stars-n-Stripers

I did find my go to ammo. 

Not much .25 is sold in stores, picked up a tin of Benjamin at Sportsmans Den, last week, did some target shooting with it. Saturday my order of JSB Exact King Diablo arrived from Pyramid Air. BIG difference, both were 25 + grain, but the JSB grouped MUCH better. Benjamin was somewhat sporadic. 

The JSB even loaded more snug, some of the Benjamin were loose. The JSB pellets appear more squatty, the Benjamin were taller. This is after about 200 through the gun now, so according to reports should get even better.

Pyramid has a great deal, put four in your cart pay for three, saved $17, plus they are always having 10% off sales, get on their email list you'll get a code to use.


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## buckeyebowman

Thanks for the tip. I was thinking of going to straightshooters.com and buying their sampler pack. You get 25 each of 18 different types of pellets. All the way from RWS Meisterklugen at 14.0 gr to Beeman Kodiak at 21.12 gr. the last I checked. You can't find squat for .22 pellet ammo off the shelf let alone .25 around here!


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## Snakecharmer

Back to the Top....Looking at a Hatsan Edge and a Crosman Fire NP....


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