# early muzzleloader impact on rut



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

in another thread back in october we had a lengthy discussion on how the early muzzleoader would impact the rut. although state kill numbers were really low i personally have only seen 3 doe's in 8 straight days in the stand last week. on my trail cameras i only have 1 doe and yearling button showing up and the rest are small bucks. so im gonna say that up to this point the early muzzleloader has impacted my local rut with a reduction in doe's seen.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

i don't think the early mz season (which i was not a fan of) affected the rut or the doe numbers with the low kill number, i think the liberal bag limits the last few years has a lot more to do with it. i have seen many more small bucks over the past few years than does. i guess us hunters are going to have to take herd control into our own hands


----------



## avrock30 (Oct 11, 2005)

I agree with Hopincash on this one. Although I have enjoyed the extra venison on the plate, the liberal bag limits, coyotes and disease have decreased our herd. The buck doe ratio is way out wack also.


----------



## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

For me my doe sightings have always crashed mid November.


----------



## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

Mad-Eye Moody said:


> For me my doe sightings have always crashed mid November.


I think that's because they are locked down with bucks. Getting about the serious business of reproduction. I don't think the early doe ML season has a thing to do with a lack of sightings now. If the deer population is healthy where you are, as it is where I hunt, it comes down to the exact location where you are hunting. BTW, hunted both Sat and Sun afternoons this weekend, and didn't see a thing! And, there was basically *NO* antlerless ML action around here during that season!


----------



## Bulldawg (Dec 3, 2007)

None at all !!


----------



## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

buckeyebowman said:


> I think that's because they are locked down with bucks. Getting about the serious business of reproduction. I don't think the early doe ML season has a thing to do with a lack of sightings now. If the deer population is healthy where you are, as it is where I hunt, it comes down to the exact location where you are hunting. BTW, hunted both Sat and Sun afternoons this weekend, and didn't see a thing! And, there was basically *NO* antlerless ML action around here during that season!


yep they are busy hiding from bucks. Heck yesterday i saw a doe bedded in the road ditch under a deadfall near a wildlife area. They have to get creative to get a break from running and you see them in the darndest of places not where they normally are.


----------



## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

I had a pretty slow rut this year, until lately. With that being said, I am hunting an area where there is NO gun hunting or muzzleloaders!


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

i appreciate the responses but some comments are being said like this is my first year in the woods. oh bucks lock on doe's...really? i have about 400 acres of mixed ag and hard woods with 17 cameras up. the doe's are missing for one reason or another.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

ostbucks98 said:


> i appreciate the responses but some comments are being said like this is my first year in the woods. oh bucks lock on doe's...really? i have about 400 acres of mixed ag and hard woods with 17 cameras up. the doe's are missing for one reason or another.
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Well since its not your first year in the woods wouldnt you also know that deer are mobile and numbers in your specific area can vary greatly year to year and day to day week to week month to month? You asked the question dont get grumpy with people sharing their opinions on the answer. And in your first post you said the kill numbers are low, and yet you blame muzzleloaders for less deer? If people didnt kill them did they fly up their own bahookeys? With 400 acres that no body is shooting on you should have more deer due to muzzleloaders not less.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

There were only 79 deer killed in Vinton County during the early season.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

its not just about numbers. added hunting pressure pre-rut,wounded deer,deer poached. a guy i work with said his neighbor shot an 8 point buck not knowing it was doe only. the ugly truth plays a role.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

did anyone come up with numbers of bucks tagged monday-wednesday?

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

that would be interesting to find out for talking purposes. That being said my buddy killed a nontypical that measured 215 gross 2 years ago the day after youth season closed. The deer was chasing a doe. They still have to breed and a doe shot in october is no different than one shot in february. Some of us kill deer at the end of bow season and in late muzzleloader. They do not disappear because people are shooting guns and if your deer herd reduced by that much that fast i would take a look at spot lighting rather than muzzleloaders. If i wanted to poach deer i surely wouldnt use a muzzleloader!


----------



## Gills63 (Mar 29, 2012)

I have always been under the impression that less does will increase observed rut behavior. With a higher buck to doe ratio the bucks are forced to actually seek out does and are more inclined to respond to audible rutting indicators.

Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

ostbucks98 said:


> did anyone come up with numbers of bucks tagged monday-wednesday?
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


What's that going to prove?


----------



## Gills63 (Mar 29, 2012)

Bob I believe the implication would be that a percentage of those bucks were shot with a muzzleloader.

I'm sure it happened, but we will never know to what extent.

Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Not sure how anyone that stepped outside those days could even ask this question. The answer is zero. Anyone who has spent much time rut hunting knows that almost every year there&#8217;s a period of time that it seems like every deer in the county has disappeared. This year is no different.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

maybe for you and everyone else. im willing to accept it is just me. ive been spoiled over the years and maybe im just facing reality.

i thought it would be some interesting discussion but all i did was soil mine and everyone else's undies.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

My undies are clean, but I think you&#8217;re barking up the wrong tree looking for an answer. I experience this every year in some form or another. This year was a little more drawn out, some years it&#8217;s like a switch is turned off. But either way, it&#8217;s common and frustrating.


----------



## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

It's always a little different with all the variables, but I totally agree that every year without fail this happens for us. Those does will do anything to hide from the bucks at this point...anything - we've seen them bed right next to the road with no cover thinking that buck wouldn't stay there, but he does! Most of your does in heat, close to it, or shortly finished will be hiding and bedding as tight as possible. All the bucks are bedding right with them and movement is severely limited especially in daylight. Like others we call it "lock down".

We went from getting 200-300 pics a week of bucks & does from all age classes to last week just a handful of pictures all in darkness (2 were mature bucks with does). 3 of us hunted Thursday - Sunday and activity was very low. 3 yr old 8 pt killed Thursday am with his doe that led him to the hunter. Friday just a couple 1.5 yr old bucks with nose down following trails and a few does (I watched a nice doe pass Friday with her 2 young ones and 15 minutes later a 5pt came nose down following). Saturday we saw a spike, the same 5 pt, and another 1.5 yr old 8 pt roaming 3 does. At 11am Sat I heard an ATV come from the road into the bottom below me and shut off...a few minutes later
I had a matire shooter buck on the run following his doe - the guy had kicked them up and he wouldn't let her get outside 60 ft of him. They ran up the ridge and she bedded on top in a pine thicket 125 yards from me...he stood there for a minute and laid down right next to her. They were still there 40 minutes after shooting light when I sneaked down.

They just don't move much and many of the deer on your prooerty in the past aren't there - they're bedded with a doe 1-2 miles away wherever she takes him! 

We enjoy hunting this period...not because the action is good (it's the slowest period of the year for us), but because this is typically when we see the MONSTER bucks. It just gets tough sitting for hours without anything. Saturday I had just texted my buddy I was going to get down and break for lunch at 11:30 - something we don't do this time of year. 5 minutes after that text I had that 140 class 10 pointer with that doe cross within 75-80 yards of me! Buddy had seen nothing - this encouraged him to sit the rest of the day without breaking too. It didn't work out, but some times it does!


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

ive been fortunate enough to tag 120" + class buck 12 out of the last 15 years. i put the time in. its a year long process for me. every weekend through the whole year is preparation for bow season. i have 5 other guys on my "team" and they also have similair success and experience. this year has been different than any other year with numbers of doe's seen. we started hunting together in the early 90's and this year we all have noticed change. just cant put the finger on it.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

We're having a weird year too. Until this past weekend I haven't see an antlerless deer since the ML season in early Oct. My hunting partner hasn't seen an antlerless deer all year. One of the fields we hunt has standing corn so it's difficult to hunt up there where we can see tons of deer all at 1 time and do an "inventory" of the local population.
One other thing, the area I hunt usually doesn't get much movement until later in the morning. Up until this past weekend everything I saw was in the 1st 1/2 hour of sunrise. 
This past weekend I finally saw 2 antlerless deer. 1 was pretty early and the other about 10:00 that came in to feed and then bed in some briars until about 11:00. One thing about bedded deer is I have rarely ever seen a deer bed up for more than 1 1/2 hours. After a brief nap it seems they always get back up and move. I've never had one stay bedded past noon.
I normally stay in my stand until noon and then go get some lunch. This past weekend rather than getting down right at noon I waited until my partner showed up about 12:10 with the quad before getting down. As soon as my foot hit the ground, I noticed a mature buck down in the creek moving away pretty quickly. It was good to finally see some later morning movement. 2 years ago I killed a buck just minutes before he came to pick me up so I like staying in until the last minutes sometimes.
One reason I mentioned the deer as antlerless is I'm not convinced they weren't button bucks. Being antlerless and solo it seems they often are.


----------



## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

ostbucks98 said:


> did anyone come up with numbers of bucks tagged monday-wednesday?
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 I was interested in the same information. I bet Monday morning after the early muzzleloader weekend there were twice as many bucks tagged in as normal. Or the "hunters" figured they got the bucks home and nobody knew so they didn't tag anything

Sent from my ONE_TOUCH_960C using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

M.Magis said:


> Not sure how anyone that stepped outside those days could even ask this question. The answer is zero. Anyone who has spent much time rut hunting knows that almost every year theres a period of time that it seems like every deer in the county has disappeared. This year is no different.


Yep! It seems like the earth opens up and swallows all those bucks you saw seeking and chasing around Halloween. We used to joke that the "Whitetail Mother Ship" would hover over the area and "beam up" all the deer until the gun season. 

My buddy lives out in the country and the area does get hunted. He didn't hear a single nearby gunshot the entire early ML season. And this place sounds like war zone opening morning of gun!


----------



## JCoeRBK (Dec 6, 2008)

People will throw the blame game on the early MZ season for the "low" deer numbers this year, however my money is on the "tagging" process we have now. Im waiting for next year....maybe the tagging process will just be whoever says "its mine" first.... my .02....the population is thriving... with room for improvement.


----------

