# Braided line without leaders



## lukejhoward (Jul 1, 2013)

Ok first off all, I posted a thread about leaders and braided line a while back and it turned into one big argument/flame fest so please no don't turn this thread into a flame fest. I know that there are people that swear by leaders with braid and some that don't use leaders. 

I simply want to know if there are people on here that have found success tossing t rigged plastics, or any lure for that matter, with braid and no leader. If you have please comment and share any information you have about your experience with braid and no leader. 

Thanks!


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm a fan of a fluoro leader, though I'm not a big bass fisherman. I do use them for jig fishing and casting with open face spinning setups.
Try experimenting with and without and find out what's best for you.


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## Jose' (Aug 31, 2013)

I have found that if I'm fishing heavy weeds/slop I'll just use braid/ no leader. If its real heavy slop and weeds it doesn't seem to matter the water clarity. On the other hand if I'm working sparse cover in clear water I tend to use a fluorocarbon leader. I do believe that water clarity makes a difference., I also will always use a leader when throwing at rocks/causeway areas. Some of them rocks are like razors on that braid.I've lost numerous rigs setting the hook only to have it come back looking like it was cut off with a knife. I put a mono leader on in that case.

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## allbraid (Jan 14, 2012)

Luke, I use braid without a leader 90% of the time and have success on smallmouth, largemouth, Saugeye, pike and in salt water I use braid and allmost never use a leader unless we target snook. In late fall and winter I use a floro leader when jig fishing for smallmouth due to water clarity and the slow presentation which gives them more time to examine my offering. Also the best Saugeye catcher that I know uses braid with out a leader.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I have tried both with and without leader. I found that the braid is more susceptible to damage from rocks and sharp grass edges than a high quality fluro leader. Same comment regarding damage from the teeth of the fish when the lure is taken deep. IMO the decision to always use a leader prevails. I will use a Uni or Blood Knot (depending on line diameter difference) to join the braid and leader. The added knot in the line does not concern me as I am normally fishing fresh water. If I were to fish for pike or musky I would use a titanium leader.


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## Cajunsaugeye (Apr 9, 2013)

If fish are hammering the bait or are very aggressively feeding then probably no need for a leader.If bite is slow or water is fairly clear,then a flourocarbon leader may help.I fixed all my issues w/this dilemma very easily.I DONT USE BRAID.10-12# fluoro for cranking,jerkbait,worms,whatever.10-12# mono for topwater.17-20# fluoro for flipping.6-8# fluoro on spinning gear.Heck,I have mono on my tree trunk catfish rods.The only reason,I see,for me to ever put braid on would be if I went to a lake w/significant heavy grass and I was gonna be fishing deep in it.Other than that,I've never had the need or felt like I'm losing anything by not using it.

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## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

In terms of number of fish caught, you'd need to conduct an experiment comparing the two tactics under controlled conditions, or conduct a study. I fish braid without a leader 100 percent of the time and catch a lot of fish (mostly smallies). What I can say is that I can't tell you the number of fish I'm NOT catching because I'm not using a leader. I've tried dark braids but I can't see the line in moving water. I plan to start using a leader in the spring. Can't hurt, right? 

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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

As one of the members partly responsible for turning your other thread for the worse, I'd once again like to offer my apologies. It did get messy. If you're still interested in my opinion, my feelings and line usage pretty much mirror Cajunsaugeye's description exactly. When I use braid, I use 50# test or better, and I'm using it in cover. (weeds, trees, bushes) I don't worry about the lines visibility because in my mind, the line blends in with the cover. 

I understand why you're asking for other peoples opinions and experiences, but until you actually try braid with, and without a leader, you're not going to develop confidence in either. And that's really what it all boils down to........ what you're confident in.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm responsible also for getting the other thread locked...SORRY...but, IMHO...they're are no right and wrong ways to fish...everyone that catches alot of fish every year, developes a system that works for them!

I fill 2 freezers every year with Crappie, Walleye, and WB, in the Spring when the water gets 40 degrees and late, late, Fall, when the water hits the 40's again...then the rest of the year I C&R.
After the spawns and the Bass leave the nest, I will Bass fish and catch Bass and everything else during the summer and early Fall. I fish CJ and streams and rivers and I use 100% braid.
I use smaller braid for everything...and 65lb for topwater.
I have learned to use it's advantages and minimize it's drawbacks which are few!
I used it with all plastics, State Rigs, drop shot, cranks, blade baits, etc.
I use 8 strand braid, I fish rocks everytime out, I fish cover, I fish open water!
I research and try every braid that comes out...just to see if anything is better than what I am using, I have 2 more to try this Spring. I use Daiwa Samurai!
Try things both ways and see what's best for "Your way of fishing"!


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

I use braid 100 percent of the time. Low light, after dark, or dingy water no need for a leader. Slow presentation, clear water, shallow water, I use a leader.

For your specified presentation of wacky rigged plastic I would use a leader. A fluorocarbon leader will add to the sink rate which is usually a good thing with this bait and since it can be a slow presentation that is studied by a bass before it bites You have less negative cues to turn them off.


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## SeanStone (Sep 8, 2010)

I have lost a lot of fish on fluorocarbon leaders. I'm not sure what the deal is, but it snaps like thread when I set the hook. Probably a knot issue....but it happens often so I quiy. For that reason I use braid with no leader....when I want to go the more invisible route I'll use 100 percent flourocarbon. It's expensive but I don't lose fish.

After years of problems I suggest looking into knot types. Each line handles knots differently. Flourocarbon is smooth and it slips easily.....find a good "cushion" knot. I use one i saw Shaw Grigsby tie on youtube but I don't know the name. Sorry. Do a little surfing and you'll find it.

For braid i use the double polomar.

To join the two I used a blood knot.....


I use p line flourocarbon. ....and spiderwire invisibraid. I like those the best out of the ones if tried.


Hope that helps. 
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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

I seemed to have more break offs with a 12lb leader on 10lb braid. No real numbers to prove it just my feeling. I typically fish in the pads and haven't noticed an increase in bites with the leader either.


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## Cajunsaugeye (Apr 9, 2013)

What's the point of 10# braid OR 12# leader if fishing heavy stuff? I'm thinking 50-65# braid w/17-20# fluoro leader.That's more the" norm" if fishing heavy grass/pads etc.Of course I'm talking flippin.But even if bank fishing or just fishing worms or senkos,I'd still upsize my line if I'm breaking off at all,let alone somewhat frequently.

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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

When I fish the rivers and streams I use braid 100% of the time, no leader and I seem to do just fine. I've used mono on the river but felt like I was not feeling my bait as well; didn't do to well on either of those trips so I went back to braid.

Mr. A


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

Cajunsaugeye said:


> What's the point of 10# braid OR 12# leader if fishing heavy stuff? I'm thinking 50-65# braid w/17-20# fluoro leader.That's more the" norm" if fishing heavy grass/pads etc.Of course I'm talking flippin.But even if bank fishing or just fishing worms or senkos,I'd still upsize my line if I'm breaking off at all,let alone somewhat frequently.
> 
> Sent from my VS870 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


I never had a problem breaking off with just 10lb braid. Once in a blue moon but when I'm using it I'm only casting a few feet into pads and bringing it out slow. I put a 12lb leader on to see if I got more bites and I started breaking off. Usually not in the pads but after I had one on and halfway back to the boat. Not pitching into the really heavy stuff. I have 50lb on baitcasters for that.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Just some thoughts and a question for those that stated that they break fish off when using a fluorocarbon leader with braided line. My question is ... how long is the leader you're using? The reason I ask is, I think the length of leader may have something to do with it. I could see a shorter leader breaking more easily than a longer leader. The reason I think this is .... 

We all know that it's very important to tie good tight knots. Especially when connecting a leader of any sorts, to braided line. If your knot slips, chances are it's going to break, or it's going to be weakened to the point that it breaks much easier.

One of the downfalls of a fluorocarbon mono filament line when compared to a nylon or co polymer mono filament line (other than fluorocarbon having a weaker knot strength) is that fact that once a fluorocarbon line is severely stretched, (as it is when pulling your knot tight) it stays stretched. It doesn't return to, or close to it's original form like a nylon or co polymer mono filament line does. When pulling your leader to mainline knot tight, the leader is being stretched to the point of staying deformed, which negates some of the shock absorbing factor of the leader material. If you're having trouble with break offs using a short leader, you may want to experiment and see if a longer leader reduces the number of break offs you're having. Also, severely stretching a fluorocarbon line reduces its diameter, which in turn makes it more susceptible to breakage due to line abrasion. 

Anyhow.... I don't know if anything I posted above has any bearing on the number of break offs you're experiencing. I'm just trying to apply some logic to the situation. 

As I've mentioned in posts to other threads ... when I use braid I don't use a leader, but I used to. When I did use a leader with braid, I once again pretty much mirrored Cajunsaugeye's line recommendations. 50-65# braid and 17 - 20# fluorocarbon leader. I wanted lines that were close to, or equal in diameter, to help alleviate any concerns with leader to mainline knot strength. I never had a problem with break offs, and I used leaders as short as 3'. As far as braided line in general goes ... I'm not really a fan, although I have started coming around to using it in places other than heavy cover. I used it quite a bit for Carolina rigging this past summer, and I will probably try it (with a fluorocarbon leader) for shaky heads this coming year. But I won't be using anything under 20# test. For me the thin diameter of any of the lower test weight braids present problems that I'm not willing to deal with. The sound of braid traveling through my line guides is bad enough.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

ducman491 said:


> I put a 12lb leader on to see if I got more bites and I started breaking off.


The problem is the breaking strength of the knots you tie in fluorocarbon are way less than the Lb test of the line. try 15-17lb fluorocarbon leaders with your 10lb braid.

heres some stats http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2pg4.html


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## SeanStone (Sep 8, 2010)

Bassbeme....

My leaders varied according to water clarity. If visibility was 3 feet....i made my leader 3 feet....i had some up to 8 feet. I tried several knots and several flourocarbons....just never had any luck. I used 15lb flourocarbon to 20lb braid. 

I had some good connections that lasted a whole trip and dozens of fish, but then again every 2 or 3 trips I would have 2 or 3 break offs. It just wasn't worth it to me. More knots equaled a greater chance for failure. 

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## 10fish (May 12, 2005)

No leader for me. I use suffix 832 30 lb 8 dia ( green) on everything and catch plenty of fish.

Even in heavy cover I very rarely have a break off. Sure I get hung up as well but with a little work it either gets free, or just bends the hook out.


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

Big Joshy said:


> The problem is the breaking strength of the knots you tie in fluorocarbon are way less than the Lb test of the line. try 15-17lb fluorocarbon leaders with your 10lb braid.
> 
> heres some stats http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2pg4.html


This makes a lot of sense. I would typically start with 3ft and keep retying until 18in were left then put on a new leader. So could be a combination of Bassbme's explanation and the knot strength issue.


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## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

Just read this in In-fisherman, which echoes what some here have said. Discussing smallie tactics, KVD says, "...in the clearest conditions, I tie fluoro leaders to braid."

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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

Big Joshy said:


> I use braid 100 percent of the time. Low light, after dark, or dingy water no need for a leader. Slow presentation, clear water, shallow water, I use a leader.


Me too, but I'll add a fluro leader when the fish may have teeth or the line may get cut. That means always in saltwater and then maybe a mono shock leader if I'm looking for drum or cobia.


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