# confrontation



## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

I had something happen a while back that I never put in a trip report that I thought I'd throw out here. I'm the most mild mannered mellow guy you will ever meet. A guy I work with says, I wish I had your temperment, you never let things get to you. Anyways so I'm fishing alone a while back in a pretty secluded part of the Great Miami. Along come two guys in kayaks. They beach them about a hundred feet away and walk towards me with fishing rods in hand. I'm fishing this little jet of current that breaks thru this bar and pours into a hole. It's only maybe five feet across, the rest of the river comes around the end of the bar curving around me. Well this guy walks up opposite me. Maybe thirty feet across this little eddy and cast right into the little break. About two feet in front of my feet. I throw my arms up in a what are you doing pose and he shrugs and says.. That's the hot spot I caught a 20 incher there. I'm Like...And that makes it okay??? About then his buddy walks up and casts right in front of me, again maybe two feet from my feet. I mean I cant cast for their lines. I bite off my jig and tie on a crankbait and cast when they cast. Lines are tangled, words are exchanged. Finally realizing they weren't going to bully me out of the spot they left. The whole time I couldn't tell if they were going to leave or try and kill me, it was obvious they were trying to start something. By then I was so mad I was shaking and ready to fight. Two guys half my age and at least twenty pounds apiece heavier. I remember thinking If one of these big thugs grabs me I'm cutting his n%$ts off. So besides being utterly stupid was I wrong? What would you have done? I mean no spots worth dying for but it wasn't about the spot. I was raised that you don't treat people like that and you don't let them treat you like that. Or maybe I'm on my way to turning into one of those crazy old guys that yells at drug dealers, I'm not sure I haven't had a confrontation like this in thirty years and was pretty shocked.


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## PARK92 (Apr 21, 2012)

I don't think you were in the wrong. I think of fishing just like a restaurant. First come first serve. And man alive you would not like fishing the walleye run on the Maumee. This occutance happens every fifteen minutes.


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

seahawk said:


> You would shoot someone over a fishing spot? Real mature.


I could see this one coming from a mile away. I'm hoping you guys are friends and that was good natured joshing. Everyone has a right to self defense, and he wasn't talking about defending a fishin hole.


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## Fish'n what bites (May 31, 2012)

Seahawk I can see the misunderstanding in my statement I was referring to self defense not over a fishing hole. Easy to misinterpret online.


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

OSG, I understand where you are coming from. Fishing public waters should always be first come, first served. However, many people pay claim to things that are not theirs, and will try to make the situation uncomfortable to the point that you leave "their" spot. Is childish, but many people ate these days.

I try to about a confrontation at all costs because I know now the system works and I know my temperament, especially when it comes to bullies. You were in a situation I'm not sure I would have handled by well. At the least I would have handled or the same way you did. We are supposed to turn the other cheek, but the truth is most bullies rely on us to do just that.

Not that it was right or wrong, but I would say most uninterested 3rd party people would have understood your reaction of not done the same thing.

Mr. A


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

seahawk said:


> You would shoot someone over a fishing spot? Real mature.


How could you possibly read into his description that he would shoot someone over a fishing hole?  And yes, I too have a CCW and would again shoot someone that was threatening me.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

I had to defuse a confrontation between parents at a little league football game today. There was an aggressor, and a bystander who was well prepared and willing to defend himself in whatever way necessary. I, as an impartial third party was able to advise the bystander to walk the other way and turn and head off the aggressor. Thank god I had the ability to do so because I later learned that the situation was on its way to becomingway uglier than I had ever imagined.

Now had it been me in the shoes of the bystander I too would have been willing and welcoming top the the conflict because I naturally have that "I ain't no punk" mentality. But optimally it was the right thing for said person to turn and walk away even though he would have in no way been in the wrong for defending himself at any resource available at that moment. I personally have a stand your ground mentality... But I do about it is not the right mentality to have in all situations.

To sum it up, you ate not in the wrong for having the emotions that you hadat the time of the conflict. But I think we all need to use our heads too.

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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

oldstinkyguy said:


> I had something happen a while back that I never put in a trip report that I thought I'd throw out here. I'm the most mild mannered mellow guy you will ever meet. A guy I work with says, I wish I had your temperment, you never let things get to you. Anyways so I'm fishing alone a while back in a pretty secluded part of the Great Miami. Along come two guys in kayaks. They beach them about a hundred feet away and walk towards me with fishing rods in hand. I'm fishing this little jet of current that breaks thru this bar and pours into a hole. It's only maybe five feet across, the rest of the river comes around the end of the bar curving around me. Well this guy walks up opposite me. Maybe thirty feet across this little eddy and cast right into the little break. About two feet in front of my feet. I throw my arms up in a what are you doing pose and he shrugs and says.. That's the hot spot I caught a 20 incher there. I'm Like...And that makes it okay??? About then his buddy walks up and casts right in front of me, again maybe two feet from my feet. I mean I cant cast for their lines. I bite off my jig and tie on a crankbait and cast when they cast. Lines are tangled, words are exchanged. Finally realizing they weren't going to bully me out of the spot they left. The whole time I couldn't tell if they were going to leave or try and kill me, it was obvious they were trying to start something. By then I was so mad I was shaking and ready to fight. Two guys half my age and at least twenty pounds apiece heavier. I remember thinking If one of these big thugs grabs me I'm cutting his n%$ts off. So besides being utterly stupid was I wrong? What would you have done? I mean no spots worth dying for but it wasn't about the spot. I was raised that you don't treat people like that and you don't let them treat you like that. Or maybe I'm on my way to turning into one of those crazy old guys that yells at drug dealers, I'm not sure I haven't had a confrontation like this in thirty years and was pretty shocked.


You should have said I'll let you have my fishing hole, I don't think you'll mind me using your kayak.


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## Doboy (Oct 13, 2008)

"And yes, I too have a CCW and would again shoot someone that was threatening me. "


Ya,,, just a fishing spot, NO BIGGIE,,, just walk away!

*(I'd just calmly pack-up and leave,,,, 
AFTER I CUT ALL THEIR VALVE STEMS! )*

Where we steelhead fish, up Bula, there's 2 or 3 younger, punk, broken- English Russians that come all the way from Cleveland. ( I'm using this description so YOU can pick'em out & use caution.) Seems like they come and fish, just to confront anybody they can. They yell, scream, cuss out loud,,, even throw bolders in the water. They'll cast spoons or jigs all the way across the river, just to tangle your lines, and then they cut yours! 
They hope to piss you off and you leave. It's happened many times, over many years,,,, we know them well. ( if your up there, just ask 'Froggy'. He'll tell ya some stories) And finally, when one of my OGF friends got in their face, just to discuss ediquette, they pulled knives on him!
We tried to contact Wardens, many times. It just doesn't work.
Now, when we go up,,, we're packing. The next time that my friends see a knife,,,, it'll be ugly! The outcome will NOT BE GOOD.

SO, this being 'pushed around thing',,, being 'treated like dirt',,, 
Just how much would you take? :flag:


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

It's those yakers causing all of the problems on the flows now days

Obviously they showed no respect, ethics or any courtesy.

Words will never change their actions they are too stupid to understand, they are what they are, just move on and enjoy your day elsewhere, not worth it.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

this isn't about defending a fishing spot... its about defending yourself against idiots in isolated areas..

and honestly, if you are a big enough prick to act like that out on the water, you had it coming for a long time...


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## Shaggy (Oct 24, 2008)

Doboy said:


> Where we steelhead fish, up Bula, there's 2 or 3 younger, punk, broken- English Russians that come all the way from Cleveland. ( I'm using this description so YOU can pick'em out & use caution.) Seems like they come and fish, just to confront anybody they can. They yell, scream, cuss out loud,,, even throw bolders in the water. They'll cast spoons or jigs all the way across the river, just to tangle your lines, and then they cut yours!
> They hope to piss you off and you leave. It's happened many times, over many years,,,, we know them well. ( if your up there, just ask 'Froggy'. He'll tell ya some stories) And finally, when one of my OGF friends got in their face, just to discuss ediquette, they pulled knives on him!
> We tried to contact Wardens, many times. It just doesn't work.
> Now, when we go up,,, we're packing. The next time that my friends see a knife,,,, it'll be ugly! The outcome will NOT BE GOOD.
> ...


I can see the confrontation unfolding now. After words are exchanged and a knife is drawn your buddy says, "ain't it just like a commi to bring a knife to a gun fight."


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Lundy I would appreciate it if you could keep on topic and not go out of your way to offend a group of our members. Conflict orientated posting is not what we need here. Thanks for your cooperation.

 Joke, Please dont boot me, LOL 


Its a tough spot, now that I have kids I try a lot harder to remove myself from those situations. People are crazy and you never know what could happen. Not worth it when people need me. But it sure is hard when people seem dead set on pushing your buttons.

As a kayaker I hate coming up on someone fishing when I have no choice but to float past them in skinny water. I try to be friendly and a sneak past them quietly. But to get out and cast on top of them, that takes some nerve.

One situation I run into is a spot that my friend owns and ask me to run people out of there if I see them. Thats where I put the kayak in and not exactly something I want to do before I leave my car unattended for hours in the middle on nowhere. Instead I just say "how you doing" and ask if I can put in there.


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## seahawk (Aug 1, 2008)

Shortdrift said:


> How could you possibly read into his description that he would shoot someone over a fishing hole?  And yes, I too have a CCW and would again shoot someone that was threatening me.


Not to go too far a field but does having a CCW make a difference in whether or not one can defend themself with a firearm? All these people saying "I have a CCW and will shoot you if you threaten me" seems strange to me. Does the permit give you some greater right than everyone else? To the OP, it sounds like you handled yourself well in a stressful situation.


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## Sciotodarby (Jul 27, 2013)

Hell, just open carry if you want to be strapped up. Probably wouldn't have people fishing on top of you being punks if they can see you're packing heat. No confrontation, then!


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Sciotodarby said:


> Hell, just open carry if you want to be strapped up. Probably wouldn't have people fishing on top of you being punks if they can see you're packing heat. No confrontation, then!


+1

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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

We've never gotten into a confrontation when paddling past fishermen. I'm steering the canoe so I try to keep track of where lines are, and steer clear. We've never snagged a line.

Once, though, on the Scioto in Dublin, we were paddling upstream and a guy was wading, standing in the center of the stream. I was watching to see where he was casting, and he was casting to both sides. So when we got close, I chose to go on the side he currently had his back to, and it worked out.


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## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

seahawk said:


> Not to go too far a field but does having a CCW make a difference in whether or not one can defend themself with a firearm? All these people saying "I have a CCW and will shoot you if you threaten me" seems strange to me. Does the permit give you some greater right than everyone else? To the OP, it sounds like you handled yourself well in a stressful situation.


A CCW is a CYA thing. If you have to use it, the first thing LE is going to ask is if you have a permit to LEGALLY carry a fire arm with you, which IS a greater right than someone who carries with out a CCW and has to use thier fire arm. In the state of Ohio you are supposed to volunteer this information to any LE officer that approaches you for any reason and you have your fire arm with you, no matter why they approach you. Do you need one? Not necessarily, but good luck explaining why you had it on you in the first place if you do happen to have to use it and dont have a CCW. Your legal rights are gone at that point if you dont have it. Its a law for a reason just like having to have a fishing/hunting/driving license. Do you need those? No. But again, good luck explaining why you dont have a fishing/hunting license if appraoached by a ranger or explaining why you are driving with out a license if you're pulled over. 

As far as carrying all the time, I used to be greatly against it. i just couldnt wrap my mind around the notion that people feel the need to make sure they have their gun on them before leaving the house. I didnt want to believe that our society has become so bad that people felt the need to do this. My thought process on this has now changed and I also have my CCW. I would rather have it and not not need it over needing it and not having it. Like the saying goes, I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by six.

And no one said " I will shoot you if you threaten me". they said they will defend themselves if they feel they are in danger, usually for their life, like knives being pulled on them as stated above. There is a huge difference between shooting some one because they threatened you and shooting some one because you are in fear for your life. Maybe I didnt interpret what you were asking correctly but thats they way your question read to me.


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## billjaco (Oct 22, 2011)

It would have been neat to have handled the situation like a Clint Eastwood character. 

After reeling in your line and surrendering the fishing spot, calmly walk over and empty all but two shots into the kayaks, ask them if they were counting, then saunter off into the sunset.


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

When I go fish streams, local lakes, or ponds, I just strap on my .357 in its side holster so its some what visible at my side...never had a problem nor have I ever needed to remove it from its holster...mighty good visual deterrent....

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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

I personally attempt to avoid physical confrontations, BUT just as soon as a knife/ gun / weapon get pulled that other person has said "I DO NOT care if I KILL you..." and as far as I am concerned is letting me know in completely understandable terms "NO mercy asked, NONE given"...there is only 1reason to pull a gun, and it is NOT to "threaten" someone. Was many times told and trained in the military: IF the situation deteriorates to where you HAVE to pull a weapon, you had better USE it...many persons have pulled guns, have them taken away, and are then killed with their own weapons. IF you truelly NEED to pull it, then it`s DYING time for someone...


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

The problem as I see it is that many ccw holders (no one in particular) have adopted a closet wild west mentality that they are itching to use. I have met many people with accw that truthfully have no business carrying because of the fact that they are anxiously awaiting the opportunity to put a few rounds into the next guy that crosses them. THIS MENTALITY IS ABSOLUTELY ABSURD! I am a strong supporter of our right to carry and excercise that right on a daily basis. However I pray there is never a reason I am forced to resort to that resource... Alternatively soo many people are just the opposite, some of them may or may not be members here. I will say that many of you have posts on this site that will most likely be used against if you are ever forced to defend yourself. Just sayin'

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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

City fisher said:


> A CCW is a CYA thing. If you have to use it, the first thing LE is going to ask is if you have a permit to LEGALLY carry a fire arm with you, which IS a greater right than someone who carries with out a CCW and has to use thier fire arm. In the state of Ohio you are supposed to volunteer this information to any LE officer that approaches you for any reason and you have your fire arm with you, no matter why they approach you. Do you need one? Not necessarily, but good luck explaining why you had it on you in the first place if you do happen to have to use it and dont have a CCW. Your legal rights are gone at that point if you dont have it. Its a law for a reason just like having to have a fishing/hunting/driving license. Do you need those? No. But again, good luck explaining why you dont have a fishing/hunting license if appraoached by a ranger or explaining why you are driving with out a license if you're pulled over.


Actually, in Ohio, you have a constitutional right to open carry. You only need a license if you plan to conceal (hide) it. Several cities and town have tried to defeat it, but lost out to the Ohio constitution.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

I Fish said:


> Actually, in Ohio, you have a constitutional right to open carry. You only need a license if you plan to conceal (hide) it. Several cities and town have tried to defeat it, but lost out to the Ohio constitution.


I Agree, CCW is not there to allow you to carry or use a gun, it just makes it legal for you conceal it.

This is why I can never figure out why people make such a big deal about it. You can already carry a gun with you. I know people who get CCW just to open carry, why???? Sure there are a few other "perks" but it still makes no sense to me.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

rustyfish said:


> I Agree, CCW is not there to allow you to carry or use a gun, it just makes it legal for you conceal it.
> 
> This is why I can never figure out why people make such a big deal about it. You can already carry a gun with you. I know people who get CCW just to open carry, why???? Sure there are a few other "perks" but it still makes no sense to me.


Because most people don't know/understand their constitutional rights. That's why it's become so easy for us to lose them. Most people only care about the rights that affect them at any given point of their lives. It's not an issue until it affects them, such as open carry. Most people couldn't have cared less about it when they were younger, but, as people become more mature, they want to do different things. I've open carried since I was 18. A lot, and I mean A LOT of people have told me I was going to be arrested, you can't just carry a loaded gun around, yadda ya. Well, I've only been questioned by an officer of the law once, and that ended amicably. If more people would do it, it wouldn't seem so strange. I only wish there were lockers around you could use, so, if you were carrying, and needed to go somewhere you can't, you'd have a convenient place to deposit your weapon.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

I Fish said:


> I only wish there were lockers around you could use, so, if you were carrying, and needed to go somewhere you can't, you'd have a convenient place to deposit your weapon.


That would be pretty cool, unfortunatly I would not trust the security of them... Every criminal would know to hit public weapons lockers to acquire weapons. It would have to be extremely secure. Not to mention no matter how secure the lockers are, who is to stop someone from casing the location to intercept someone storingg or retrieving their firearm in an attempt to catch them offguard. Idk, just first thought. Sounds cool but also yells horrible idea to me...

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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

rustyfish said:


> I Agree, CCW is not there to allow you to carry or use a gun, it just makes it legal for you conceal it.
> 
> This is why I can never figure out why people make such a big deal about it. You can already carry a gun with you. I know people who get CCW just to open carry, why???? Sure there are a few other "perks" but it still makes no sense to me.


the problem lies with the fact that an open carry can result in inducing panic, which you could be charged with regardless of the 2nd amendment



> That would be pretty cool, unfortunatly I would not trust the security of them... Every criminal would know to hit public weapons lockers to acquire weapons. It would have to be extremely secure. Not to mention no matter how secure the lockers are, who is to stop someone from casing the location to intercept someone storingg or retrieving their firearm in an attempt to catch them offguard. Idk, just first thought. Sounds cool but also yells horrible idea to me...


this idea is similar to Canada's system..


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Silent Mike said:


> the problem lies with the fact that an open carry can result in inducing panic, which you would be charged with regardless of the 2nd amendment


I think that is the point he was trying to make. If it were more common it would not induce panic. I think some of the pro gun groups like the NRA should try and organize a few unofficial national open carrydays several times a year.

This would raise awareness and lighten the shock from gen pop. I know I would participate.

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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

have you seen the caliber of people that make up the gen pop? it would take a huge campaign for people to not be dumb about things like this


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Silent Mike said:


> this idea is similar to Canada's system..


I an not familiar with Canada's system please educate me?


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## deltaoscar (Apr 4, 2009)

No, I don't believe you were wrong or stupid. Just reading about it ticked me off. I probably would have reacted similarly. The problem is you never know what kind of psychos / addicts you are dealing with. 



oldstinkyguy said:


> I remember thinking If one of these big thugs grabs me I'm cutting his n%$ts off.


This made me chuckle, any time you contemplate lopping off genitalia you are pretty mad.


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

jlami said:


> I an not familiar with Canada's system please educate me?
> 
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


i was told that there was a centralized location where firearms are stored...but i cannot seem to find any info on that, so it could be false


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Silent Mike said:


> i was told that there was a centralized location where firearms are stored...but i cannot seem to find any info on that, so it could be false


At first exposure this sounds like a historically bad idea, but I donot know details or facts. It is intriguing though.

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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

it would be like a bank i think...guarded, secure, etc...again i cannot find information on it


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Yeah, but technicay what you did is illegal. However thats total bull crap!


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## goatfly (Jun 21, 2013)

Some years ago, I was fishing off the rocks under one of the bridges at Hoover. This a-hole was walking the rip rap and fishing while he went. He got so close to me, that I could have put my arm out and touched him on the shoulder. On his first cast, he caught a 14" smallie that was literally right in front of me, released it and continued to walk the rip rap. I didn't say anything to him because *you can't fix stupid*.


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## WalleyeWiz (Jun 18, 2004)

I know there are about 6 million NRA members out of the 100 million gun owners in the US . I am a firearms person with a CCW as well but dint belong to the NRA. I find it hard to be a member only because of the gun rights part . To me they are a GOP lobbying group just as much as a gun rights group and that is the part I disagree with . I consider myself an Independent . I have many friends that are Democrats that are gun owners and believe in the constitution but get a bad rap on many gun boards for being so. 
Just wondering here how many Independents or Democrats are members just because of the gun rights part of the NRA ?

Dwayne


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## bountyhunter (Apr 28, 2004)

question, you people with CCW permits,,, have you ever shot some one??? its not as easy as you may think..I,m a old nam vet,,I,ve killed meny, its not as easy as you think.!!. I have guns too, [ I carry a baseball bat. ]


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## WalleyeWiz (Jun 18, 2004)

Never have and hope to never have to. Me carrying does not change who I am at all. To me it is just like insurance . Hope I dont need to use it but have it just in case. 

Dwayne


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

WalleyeWiz said:


> I know there are about 6 million NRA members out of the 100 million gun owners in the US . I am a firearms person with a CCW as well but dint belong to the NRA. I find it hard to be a member only because of the gun rights part . *To me they are a GOP lobbying group *just as much as a gun rights group and that is the part I disagree with . I consider myself an Independent . *I have many friends that are Democrats that are gun owners and believe in the constitution but get a bad rap on many gun boards for being so.
> *Just wondering here how many Independents or Democrats are members just because of the gun rights part of the NRA ?
> 
> Dwayne


GOP lobbying group? Not necessarily so. NRA has supported dems also. Manchin from WV is one. I think they supported Harry Reid from Nev also at one time. There are others. I would say, and this is just a guess, the largest NRA focus is on overall "gun rights" versus direct individual politician support. They've done a great job of getting the truth out after unfortunate events caused by crazies. On your other point, I am a member of several gun boards, and know there are a mix of democrat and republican members. The moderators on those sites I view go out of their way, and do a good job, to cut out the political attacks...both ways.


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## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

yep if you read their endorsement list you will find a significant number of democrats on the list it is based upon voting record on guns rights issues and nothing else they supported Ted Strickland if i remember correctly. Kasich has done more to support gun rights in our state IMHO and i do not want to spawn debate on that just a statement of opinion. The reason they didnt support him was some legislation early on in his career. Not a GOP group just looks that way cause the GOP is most usually pro gun.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

deltaoscar said:


> This made me chuckle, any time you contemplate lopping off genitalia you are pretty mad.


I was mad enough to use em for channel cat bait afterward...

I remember reading where the late great catfisherman Toad Smith had an operation where they had to replace a heart valve. He had them save it and when he felt better caught a six pound channel on it.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

I posted about this a couple months ago in SW forum OSG...these guys are called River Donkeys! Lol! seriously though...sounds like you handled it well...


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## Rumble (Apr 25, 2012)

I was up at the Maumee River a couple weeks ago with my daughter and had 3 guys come walk right through the hole we were fishing. When I gave them the "What are you stupid or something look" they just looked at me and said my bad then stopped in the middle and started fishing. I had to shrug it off and avoid conflict due to the fact my daughter was with me. In all my years of fishing it seems like this younger generation doesnt have any respect for anybody or anything.


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## spectrum (Feb 12, 2013)

That reminded me of a story I had a couple years back. There's a spot I found on the rocky river where at a certian time would hold a few king salmon. I got there and was able to sight them in the tailwater. I started fishing got a few swipes and then a guy walking by saw the fish I was going for, ran into the river and started chasing the salmon down the river trying to catch it with his hands. I just sat there stunned. I was 17 at the time. If it was now I think I would have wrapped his neck up in my fly line and pulled really hard. Sad part is after that year the spot got restructuerd and I can't find where they sit now.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

I have had the same thing happen to me numerous times, I have had guys walk right through the hole I am fishing, I have had people that once they see me catch a couple fish they throw there line right over by mine, I have been on the verge of confrontation as well and it really bothers me because I am not like that, unfortunately I don't think it bothers them at all, just the world we live in today.


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## flyman01 (Jan 23, 2013)

Oldstinkyguy,
Ironically, I had practically the exact same thing happen to me last year while I was with a client doing a walk-in fly fishing trip on a southern trout stream just about 1 year ago. We had started fishing a particular spot on this river when I noticed another angler crossing over the river and working his way up toward the location we were fishing but on the opposite side of the river. I was in the process of changing the fly my client was using and as I was doing this, the other angler starts casting right into the pool we were fishing. I said to him, "Hello&#8221;, &#8220;we are working this pool and have been here for an hour now so how about a little river etiquette." He then promptly tells me that he has been on the river for two hours; I guess in his simple mindedness, that made it okay to intrude into the pool we were fishing. With his justification, I knew he would need sone convincing to leave so I quickly changed the tippet to a heavier line, tied on a streamer and when he made his next cast, did exactly the same thing you did, casted over his line and broke off his fly. Of course as soon as I broke his line, he was not happy with that and he started calling me a few select names. I then informed him that if he had a problem with what I did, he can cross back over the river and we will discuss it or he could just move on. He called me a few more names and decided to leave. Wise choice on his behalf.


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## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

I Fish said:


> Actually, in Ohio, you have a constitutional right to open carry. You only need a license if you plan to conceal (hide) it. Several cities and town have tried to defeat it, but lost out to the Ohio constitution.


Yes, it is legal to open carry, I am aware of this law as well. I was specifically talking about carrying a concealed weapon with a CCW permit that you are supposed to volunteer this information.

And I dont think you can induce a panic and be charged for that by open carrying when it is a law. What are they going to say to you? "Sorry these people dont know the law about open carrying, but Im gonna have to cite you for their stupidity, heres your ticket" I dont think so.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Why go through the hassle of open carry? Just get your cc permit. You're not protected all the time if you open carry unless you are breaking the law.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

jlami said:


> I think that is the point he was trying to make. If it were more common it would not induce panic. I think some of the pro gun groups like the NRA should try and organize a few unofficial national open carrydays several times a year.
> 
> This would raise awareness and lighten the shock from gen pop. I know I would participate.
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 You guys should check out Www.ohiocarry.org

Sent from my ONE_TOUCH_960C using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

The only way a ticket for inciting panic or menacing with a firearm can stick is if you are brandishing a firearm. You have the firearm withdrawn from a holster and waving around in a menacing or dangerous manner. If you are open carrying a firearm never leave the holster or sling, or you do not point in the menacing manner you cannot legally get a ticket. This is all to the best of my knowledge

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## Roscoe (Jul 22, 2007)

Too bad about those dam kayakers.When you are by yourself and no Dog or Gun,you just gotta walk away and say little,unless you know Martial Arts.Come back another time and I doubt if you see them again.Good Luck!


Roscoe


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## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

Same thing happened to me recently, except this guy - young, muscled-up dude in his twenties - waded down to the hole I was fishing and tried to bully me out of it by casting from the opposite side of the creek to a spot right in front of my feet. So I did the same thing back to him. I didn't move, and he eventually left. Still, I was fuming...


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## fishhogg (Apr 16, 2009)

jlami said:


> The problem as I see it is that many ccw holders (no one in particular) have adopted a closet wild west mentality that they are itching to use. I have met many people with accw that truthfully have no business carrying because of the fact that they are anxiously awaiting the opportunity to put a few rounds into the next guy that crosses them. THIS MENTALITY IS ABSOLUTELY ABSURD! I am a strong supporter of our right to carry and excercise that right on a daily basis. However I pray there is never a reason I am forced to resort to that resource... Alternatively soo many people are just the opposite, some of them may or may not be members here. I will say that many of you have posts on this site that will most likely be used against if you are ever forced to defend yourself. Just sayin'
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


I have to take exception to this. I know a lot of people that have their CCW(myself included), and none of us have the "wild west mentality". It is comments like this that put a black eye on the honest, law abiding citizens that take the time to research their constitutional rights, and get the training needed to protect themselves, and their families. So please don't make comments like these when you apparently don't know what your talking about. And, if you have friends that do have this mentality, then it is time to make new friends. Just sayin'


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

fishhogg said:


> I have to take exception to this. I know a lot of people that have their CCW(myself included), and none of us have the "wild west mentality". It is comments like this that put a black eye on the honest, law abiding citizens that take the time to research their constitutional rights, and get the training needed to protect themselves, and their families. So please don't make comments like these when you apparently don't know what your talking about. And, if you have friends that do have this mentality, then it is time to make new friends. Just sayin'


I couldn't of said it better myself.


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## cjbrown (May 22, 2007)

City fisher said:


> Yes, it is legal to open carry, I am aware of this law as well. I was specifically talking about carrying a concealed weapon with a CCW permit that you are supposed to volunteer this information.
> 
> And I dont think you can induce a panic and be charged for that by open carrying when it is a law. What are they going to say to you? "Sorry these people dont know the law about open carrying, but Im gonna have to cite you for their stupidity, heres your ticket" I dont think so.


 They will more than likely cite you for inducing panic, if someone called it in and complained enough....


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## Fish'n what bites (May 31, 2012)

You can't induce panic by doing something that's legal.


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## Fish'n what bites (May 31, 2012)

Also unless I'm mistaken I don't think there is a law allowing or banning open carry. So by default it is a legal action.


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## cjbrown (May 22, 2007)

Fish'n what bites said:


> Also unless I'm mistaken I don't think there is a law allowing or banning open carry. So by default it is a legal action.


 True, I did find this....




1. As a general matter of law, the right to bear arms is a fundamental, individual right guaranteed by Section 4, Article 1 of the Ohio Constitution.* This right, however, is not absolute, and is subject to regulation.

2. Beyond the rights granted by the Ohio Constitution, Revised Code § 9.68 provides that, unless otherwise prohibited by State or Federal law, any person may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition. Specifically included in this statute is the right to openly carry a firearm. See Revised Code § 9.68(C)(1). There is no requirement that the person first get a license, get permission or show any need prior to openly carrying a firearm.

3. Officer safety must always be a paramount concern and goal for peace officers. However, officers should not consider openly carrying a firearm as per se suspicious or criminal conduct. Openly carrying a firearm does not automatically equate into a Disorderly Conduct (R.C. § 2917.11) or Inducing Panic (R.C. § 2817.31) charge. To take this position would be tantamount to taking a position that a person may not exercise their statutory or constitutional rights without risking constant Terry stops or police arrest. This position is obviously problematic. Instead, the officer or the dispatcher needs to look at the totality of the circumstances. Is there reasonable, articulable suspicion that criminal conduct is occurring? What are the facts and circumstances, beyond the mere presence of a firearm, that indicate it is reasonable to suspect criminal activity?

Simply reacting to every single man with a gun situation as an automatic Terry stop or felony stop will clearly have a chilling effect on the exercise of these rights by citizens, thus potentially opening the officer and the department up to civil liability. Officers and dispatchers should carefully question informants when being dispatched on these types of calls to verify what allegations of further suspicious or criminal conduct, if any, the suspect is engaged in. In a non-dispatch or informant situation, where the officer directly observes the conduct of the suspect, the officer should be ready to articulate what factors beyond the mere carrying of the firearm prompted the official police interaction with the suspect.

4. Nothing in Ohios concealed carry law requires a license holder to carry their firearm strictly concealed. Rather, Ohios concealed carry law is mostly a series of exceptions to the existing criminal statutes. For instance, see Revised Code § 2923.12(C)(2). The main statute, § 2923.12(A)(2), prohibits carrying a concealed handgun, and section (C)(2) simply states that the main statute does not apply to someone with a Concealed Handgun License. While some states do require strict concealment by their license holders, Ohio has not taken this approach. Further, there is nothing in Ohios concealed carry law that requires a license holder to forfeit their constitutional and statutory right to bear arms in order to obtain a Concealed Handgun License. Thus, a person who has been issued a Concealed Handgun License may still openly carry a firearm if they chose to do so, provided all other laws are observed.

5. Nothing in this article should be construed to mean that someone may openly carry a firearm where the person is otherwise prohibited from carrying a firearm. For instance, if the person is under firearm disability pursuant to Revised Code § 2923.13, the person may not openly carry a firearm, as the person cannot legally possess a firearm. Further, if the area where the open carry occurs in a prohibited area, such as a courthouse as provided for by Revised Code § 2923.123 or in a car as provided for by Revised Code § 2923.16, then the person may not openly carry the firearm.

* See Klein v. Leis, (Ohio 2003) 99 Ohio St.3d 537, 539 and Arnold V. Cleveland, (Ohio 1993) 67 Ohio St.3d 35, 46.


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## cjbrown (May 22, 2007)

I know personally some folks in the past that were just drilled by LEO's over it. That was what I was getting at, the intimidation factor that you are doing something illegal...


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## ztmdodge (May 10, 2013)

Yeah its always better to avoid confrontations nowadays people are crazy. It takes a lot more maturity to walk away than it does to fight and end up in jail. But however like I said people nowadays are crazy and a lot of them don't think or dont care what they do. So I night fish for flatheads in really remote locations by myself all the time so I always have an 8" knife, an 18" machete, and a 9mm pistol on me. So it would be a poor idea to sneak up on me in the dark haha.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

ztmdodge said:


> Yeah its always better to avoid confrontations nowadays people are crazy. It takes a lot more maturity to walk away than it does to fight and end up in jail. But however like I said people nowadays are crazy and a lot of them don't think or dont care what they do. So I night fish for flatheads in really remote locations by myself all the time so I always have an 8" knife, an 18" machete, and a 9mm pistol on me. So it would be a poor idea to sneak up on me in the dark haha.


Damn; do you carry more weapons or fishing lures?


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

cjbrown said:


> They will more than likely cite you for inducing panic, if someone called it in and complained enough....


I have alot of family in LE. Not just beat cops either, I'm referring to police chiefs, detectives, high ranking sheriff deputies, ATF, Narcotics Agents and two FBI agents... I will tell you that the typical leo its in support of laws bring scarred to and they are not going to go out of their way to enforce a "grey area" with motivation. In other words in the event that you are approached while exercising your oc rights, be cooperative, respectful, and patient. If you don't piss of the leo there should not be an issue...

Sent from my MB855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Roscoe (Jul 22, 2007)

imalt said:


> Damn; do you carry more weapons or fishing lures?


Just to be safer I've got a Civil War sword dated 1864 that you might want to add to your arsenal.And don't forget about Dog the Bounty Hunter's long range canister of Gas.Those things really work great!!Good Luck!


Roscoe


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## Angler ss (May 15, 2008)

I was about 10 years old holding the boat at the Sandusky ramp it was about 9 pm we had just got done catfishing.( sandusky has 4 ramp lanes) As dad was walking to get the truck and trailor some sloppy drunk in a boat pulls in the dock I was at and told me I was at his dock! I stayed cool and told him dad was getting the truck and told him there where 3 other docks. He started cursing telling me I was going to move out his bleeping dock. Dad is not a person who likes conflict but refuses to let anyone steep on him. When he over heard this guy cursing at me he lost his composure, he ran down the dock got a oar out the boat told that guy "if you get out the ----ing boat I will split your skull". Thank god for that guy he stayed in his boat if he had got out the boat it would not have been good.The guy took off dad called watercraft he was the only other trailor in the lot they where going to wait on him.That was 20 yrs ago remember it like it happened yesterday. I have a ccw don't think it has any "Wild West" to it just lets a person stand there ground for themselves or family and not have to worry about a person or persons attacking them because of it.


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