# Question about braid



## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

I've never been a huge braid user, just because I've never had a problem with mono and I don't like change. However, I recently won two spools of 40 lb power pro and decided to use it on my new flippin rod combo. My question is, do you use a mono or flouro leader or just straight braid for bass?


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## Cajunsaugeye (Apr 9, 2013)

Opinions will vary.Personally,I would use a 14-17# fluoro leader.If the water is heavily stained or muddy then maybe straight braid.


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## The Ghost (Jul 3, 2013)

I wouldn't consider using a leader with a flipping setup. In the kind of areas I flip in, a bass is not going to notice braid. In fact, I've tank tested braid compared to fluoro, and I actually felt dark braid stood out less against a dark background than the fluoro did. 

If I did feel the need for fluoro, I would simply use that as my main line. At those ranges stretch is minimal, so why introduce a second knot that can fail?


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

First off I wouldn't use braid on any bait that is kept in constant motion. It's just my opinion that if you're using braid and don't have a slower action rod, then braided line can lead to poorly hooked fish. As Cajunsaugeye said above .... opinions will vary. 

As far as using braid for slack line techniques goes. I only tie braid directly to the bait if I'm fishing the bait in cover. I use 50# braid and I want something in the water that will help the line blend in.

If I'm fishing open water, lighter cover or the edges of heavier cover, I'd use a leader in the test range the Cajunsaugeye mentioned in his post. I use back to back Uni knots to connect the leader and the braided main line.


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

Flipping baits I wouldn't use a leader. I've typically fish pretty stained water so heavy braid even in open water usually isn't a problem for me.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

I've used suffix 832 in 20# test bass fishing in a very clear pond in tenn and didn't use a leader and caught bass with no problems. my nephew was fishing using 6# mono and I caught 13 bass and 1 big gill using a worm with a small spinner in front. my nephew caught 15 bass using a worm without a spinner. another trip to the same pond the results were about the same but I caught 1 more bass than my nephew. hope this helps.
sherman


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## FlyLifer360 (Oct 24, 2013)

Straight braid! I've never had a problem with braid! 60lb 832 suffix best on the market (my opinion) 
Advantage of braid over flouro or mono is you can at the hook a lot better n its a lot more sensitive line


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

Flipping and pitching I go with straight braid. I also use light braid for dropshotting but I use a flouro leader. Main reason for this is that braid is more sensitive than flouro or mono. The leader is only for a more natural appearance. I also use braid when dragging football heads in deeper water. Increased sensitivity and low stretch means a super hard hook set even in 15-20 ft of water.


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## NCbassattack (May 5, 2014)

Everyone has an opinion on braid. Mine is, try to sell it and stick with mono.


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

60# braid? Wow, I don't even use that on our saltwater rods.
That stuff's gotta be like rope?


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## KingFisher89 (Feb 22, 2007)

I use 65lb braid when im flipping pads and heavy cover and 80lb on all my frog rods. Braid is a must when flipping pads and water color isnt a huge deal because its all shaded and the coontail camo's it.


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## Cajunsaugeye (Apr 9, 2013)

Wouldn't say its a "must". Pretty sure MANY fish were caught in pads when braid wasn't even around.I use #17 fluoro.And I catch fish?!?! Weird.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

60# braid is about the diameter of 15# regular mono. Not very big at all actually. 

And the word "must" means different things to different people. You must eat and breathe to live. 

But you must not necessarily pull your pants down to evacuate your bowels. But it's a darn good idea. And leads to less of a chance of making a mess of things, if you do.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

creekcrawler said:


> 60# braid? Wow, I don't even use that on our saltwater rods.
> That stuff's gotta be like rope?


Pro's use it...or even higher...as stated same diamater as 10-15 lb mono...I use no higher than 30 lb braid myself.


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## greatmiami (Feb 4, 2014)

I wish I could find a fluoro that didn't have so much memory at heavier test. To me the limpness of braid is as big a reason for the increased sensitivity as is the zero stretch factor.

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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

greatmiami said:


> I wish I could find a fluoro that didn't have so much memory at heavier test. To me the limpness of braid is as big a reason for the increased sensitivity as is the zero stretch factor.
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Actually, braid being so limp takes away sensitivity from it. If it were stiff it would be even more sensitive. 

As far as a fluorocarbon that doesn't have that much memory in heavier test weights. Seaguar Tatsu. I use 20# test and it behaves like 12# or 14# test of some of the fluorocarbons I've tried. 

Once this spool of 20# is gone I'll be bumping up to 25# test. It behaves that well.

We are talking on bait casting gear ..... right?

If you're talking spinning gear my recommendation would still be Tatsu. But I wouldn't go over 8# test on a 2500 size reel, 10# test on a 3000 size reel, and probably 12# test on a 4000 size reel.


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## greatmiami (Feb 4, 2014)

Bassbme said:


> Actually, braid being so limp takes away sensitivity from it. If it were stiff it would be even more sensitive.
> 
> As far as a fluorocarbon that doesn't have that much memory in heavier test weights. Seaguar Tatsu. I use 20# test and it behaves like 12# or 14# test of some of the fluorocarbons I've tried.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how you could possibly think that a stiff spring coil would be more sensitive that a perfectly straight zero stretch connection to the lure! ? ? everyone has there own opinion and that's just fine though. I was talking spinning, the best thing I have used as far as fluoro main line is the new stuff from trilene it handles decent. 20 bucks for 200 yards. Is this tatsu line expensive?

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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

greatmiami said:


> I don't understand how you could possibly think that a stiff spring coil would be more sensitive that a perfectly straight zero stretch connection to the lure! ? ? everyone has there own opinion and that's just fine though. I was talking spinning, the best thing I have used as far as fluoro main line is the new stuff from trilene it handles decent. 20 bucks for 200 yards. Is this tatsu line expensive?
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Ohub Campfire mobile app


I was gonna say...braid is MORE sensitive...doesnt matter if its limp or not...you cant take away any sensitivity from it...and yes tatsu is expensive but it is a very good line.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

My point about braid was that its limpness causes a bow in the line. If the line were more stiff, there would be less of a bow in the line, and sensitivity would increase. 

Line sensitivity is all about how much stretch it has though. Regular nylon mono is more limp than fluorocarbon line, yet most fluorocarbon lines (I say most because some fluorocarbon lines stretch as much as standard mono) are more sensitive than regular nylon mono. If a lines limpness were as important as the amount of stretch a line has, wouldn't standard mono be as sensitive as fluorocarbon?

And yes Tatsu is twice the cost of the line you mentioned. To me it's definitely a case of you get what you pay for.


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## legendaryyaj (Nov 1, 2005)

Bassbme is correct. On slack like, braid isn't as sensitive. Who always has super tight line on braid? Unless you're tightling, you won't. There is almost always bow in your line.

I bet if you cut a length of braid, dangle it, and flick it, you wont feel as much as if you did it with a stiff fluorocarbon. That's the difference. Pull the braid tight and flick it, you'll then notice it a lot more. Fluorocarbon doesn't need to be tight to be sensitive.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

I know I still feel stuff with slack in my line using braid...because its a straight line to the lure with no stretch...you dont need to have a tight line on braid...thats the whole point...braid is 100 times more sensitive and I feel absolutely everything that touches the line...slack line or not...maybe its just me?


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## legendaryyaj (Nov 1, 2005)

Every single line is no stretch when there's no pressure put on it. Mono doesn't stretch itself. It only stretches when you apply pressure to it so your whole understanding is off there. The no stretch selling point is when you set the hook. That's when line stretches and braid doesn't. If you cast out a bobber with a minnow on it, mono isn't going to be stretching as you watch your bobber.

No one line is really the answer to it all. They are all tools and have their place and time.


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## greatmiami (Feb 4, 2014)

If there is slack in the line it is caused either on purpose by the user, or other factors such as most commonly wind, current,or boat movement. The later of these by and large cause tension in line, tension combined with Zero shock absorption creates transmission of feel,and it doesn't matter if that bow is arched out Like the top thrill dragster, the fact that the line is LIMP AGAINST TENSION WITH NO STRETCH means that the connection is direct. Wen I think about an ideal scenario for strike detection I think of no wind and stationary platform on which to fish, and even then fishing with little or no weight the natural bow of BRAID will allow superior feeling. I can see what you're trying to say with he whole stiff line thing, but remember even if it gives you more feel when you flick the line, and I don't agree that it does, the vibration sent through a stiff line will dissipate over any distance, and will most assuredly be gone all together when under water. Also remember the braid will be saturated as well witch will have an affect. 

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## legendaryyaj (Nov 1, 2005)

What fluorocarbons have you used?

Slack in line can also be by what technique you are using. A wacky senko doesn't need tight line.


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## greatmiami (Feb 4, 2014)

I've mostly used the cheapest stuff I can get away with, especially on the lighter ones, just seems like I only get like a month or so of life regardless of the price. There are times however when I will spend the money for better stuff. I love throwing jerks for fall and winter eyes, but I HATE loosing them, so the extra knot strength of a better line makes economic sense especially considering that I mostly use around 6lb test for that. If conditions allow it I will always chose a braid main line with a fluoro leader though, often times the eyes don't really even strike, they just mouth the lure making every bit of sensitivity crucial. But braid and freezing temps don't go together, its not the best in high wind or strong current either. Here again I would never use a heavy fluoro or mono main line for suspending jerks, because of memory it is impossible to have contact with lure unless you are actually moving it. 90 percent of the bites occur on the pause, so all those coils trying to come back together like a giant slinky do not work out well at all. whenever I do use a fluoro leader I all ways stretch it tight,pinch it tight between my thumb and finger and rub it quickly back and forth to reset the memory to perfectly straight. My leaders are rite about 4 to 5 feet long, so non of it will ever be on the spool.

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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

greatmiami has the thinking right. Although a truly slack line has no tension on it. If there is a bow in the line, the line is under tension. 

The point I was trying to make with my initial and subsequent posts about a bow in the line, is that a curve in a conductor increases resistance. In the case of fishing line, (the conductor) the path of least resistance, is a straight line. 

A curve also increases the length of the conductor. The longer the conductor, the more resistance it offers. The shortest distance between two points, is a straight line. 

Would we be able to detect by feel, the difference between the sensitivity of a straight length of braid versus a slightly longer and curved piece of braid? Most likely not. But there would be a difference. 

legendaryyaj ... sorry man, you got all wrong as far as the no stretch only relating to the hook set. It's the no or extremely small stretch factor of braid, that makes it so sensitive. Fluorocarbon is more sensitive than a nylon or co polymer mono filament, because it has a lower stretch factor.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

greatmiami? I'm curious what size reels you use? The reason I ask is because spool diameter on a spinning reel is important when you're using a line that has memory. Smaller spool diameters create more problems with fluorocarbon. If you're using reels smaller than the equivalent of a 2500 size Shimano spinning reel, I wouldn't use Fluorocarbon line at all. And if I did, it would be 6# test, max.

Even Tatsu is going to have some coils in it. Nothing that I would consider being like a spring though. It has the best knot strength of any fluorocarbon I've ever used. And I have tried quite a few different brands, and models within the same brand. Abrasion resistance is outstanding, and so is its sensitivity.

If you use a leader on a braid main line, except for the freezing properties of braid you mentioned, I personally don't see why you'd want to change to a fluorocarbon main line. 

I use fluorocarbon main line because I don't like leaders in general. I don't use braid very often, and if I use a leader on a braid main line, I don't use one long enough to where I'd be reeling the knot through the tip top. 3' maybe 4' max in a pitching or flipping situation. I retie pretty often, and a leader becomes a pain in the butt because of the need to retie a new leader on.


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## greatmiami (Feb 4, 2014)

I use a cardinal stx 30. Not sure about the actual size of the spool but I can see that having an affect for sure. I'm going to give tatsu a try. Maybe I should look at some larger spools as well. Is there really any draw back using real light line on a bigger reel? 

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## greatmiami (Feb 4, 2014)

And I was exaggerating with the the slinky reference. Its more like little curves in the line.

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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

greatmiami said:


> I use a cardinal stx 30. Not sure about the actual size of the spool but I can see that having an affect for sure. I'm going to give tatsu a try. Maybe I should look at some larger spools as well. Is there really any draw back using real light line on a bigger reel?
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Ohub Campfire mobile app


it just takes a lot of line to fill the spool. its best to use a larger backing line to almost fill the spool then put your smaller line on top. you can use a blood knot or uni to uni knot to splice the line together.

I was fishing for bait fish in fl back in feb and march. I had 2 of my bass fishing reels and rods with me spooled with mono on the bottom then 20# braid on top. I wanted to use 10# braid for bait fishing so I just put about 100' of 10# braid on top of the 20# braid. it worked great for bait fishing as I only needed about 75' of 10# to cast out to where we caught bait. I always use a larger line on my reels for my backing then put my smaller line on top.
sherman


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

Shad Rap said:


> I know I still feel stuff with slack in my line using braid...because its a straight line to the lure with no stretch...you dont need to have a tight line on braid...thats the whole point...braid is 100 times more sensitive and I feel absolutely everything that touches the line...slack line or not...maybe its just me?


times 2 shad rap. I've been using braid for just about all my fishing for the last few yrs and have to agree that even with a small bow in your line you still feel more than with mono or fluro with the same bow in the line. and with a tight line you feel every bump.

I was just fishing for bait fish in fl. and they were small about 2 1/2" to about 5" and I felt every bite.
sherman


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## legendaryyaj (Nov 1, 2005)

Bassbme said:


> legendaryyaj ... sorry man, you got all wrong as far as the no stretch only relating to the hook set. It's the no or extremely small stretch factor of braid, that makes it so sensitive. Fluorocarbon is more sensitive than a nylon or co polymer mono filament, because it has a lower stretch factor.


Just because it's braid doesn't mean it's more sensitive in all instances. Who says they throw frogs on braid because it's more sensitive? No one. You throw frogs on braid because of the no stretch to slam the hooks home. Same with a jig. If braid was that much more sensitive in every instance because it's braid, then everyone would be using it for every application because we all know sensitivity matters. On slack line, you cannot beat FC. If im dragging a football jig or fishing a dropshot where there's constant tension, I'll use braid. Everything else is FC or co-poly.

Mono or FC will not stretch to enormous proportions when a fish bumps it. It only stretches when there is tension like a hookset or fighting a fish. If anything, I would contribute hardness to transmitting sensitivity better than stretch and FC is harder than supple braid. Tungsten vs lead for example? Again, go flick slack braid and slack FC and tell me braid is more sensitive just because.


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## greatmiami (Feb 4, 2014)

So for instance say you have a weightless sinko free falling. You have the bail open and feeding line so that it drops straight down or were ever a perfectly natural fall takes it. A fish hits on that slack line, and you will have better detection because of the hardness? You have me wondering for sure, because in that instance I'm all ways watching the line not necessarily trying to feel anything. The braid is going to react with movement at the point it enters the water but because there is so much slack it will not translate into a feeling?

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## greatmiami (Feb 4, 2014)

I just still get hung up on the fact that hardness and memory seem to always go hand in hand. And memory becomes more and more of a problem the farther the distance you are from the lure. But time will tell, maybe I will find some advantages with the higher end fluoro. I think we have all made valid points worth considering.

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## laynhardwood (Dec 27, 2009)

This conversation has good points for different applications of each type of line. I know it was said earlier, but every line has a place or we would be stuck using just one. I also think everybody has a confidence type lure and line type. Just because guy A loves braid and guy B loves flouro doesn't mean either line is better in every application. I think we will ultimately have our best success when we are confident in our presentation. When we have confidence in our technique, we will fish more thoroughly and with better precision.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

greatmiami. the reel you mentioned should handle 10# fluorocarbon pretty well. Of course it's going to handle the more limp fluorocarbon better. But every fluorocarbon I've ever tried has memory. Just the nature of the beast. Generally the more limp a fluorocarbon line is, the more stretch it has, and the less sensitive it is.

Tatsu overcomes the above to an extent by using two different resin formulations within the same line. A harder inner core for lower stretch and more sensitivity, and a softer outer sheathing I guess would be the best term to use, that increases knot strength and suppleness, while still having great abrasion resistance. It's a very good line.

legendaryyaj ..... Of course not every technique requires the sensitivity of braid. My post to you was in reference to this excerpt from one of your posts ... "The no stretch selling point is when you set the hook." A selling point of braid is also that its no stretch increases sensitivity. That was the point I was trying to make.

Anyhow ..... as some have already said. There is no one line that is perfect for every situation. Every type has its selling points. Its advantages and disadvantages. You just have to pick the one that you feel best fits your needs.


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