# why do we still have a bp season?



## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

with todays modern smokepoles, why have a designated bp season? they are some of the most powerful guns we hunt with now. why not have a _last chance season_, where any legal firearm is allowed but only one shot can be loaded. make the early bp season flintlock/caplock season.
just thinking out loud, winter boredom setting in already.


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## fishguy 888 (Aug 8, 2012)

The 1 shot rule would be a big problem.I would think if somebody is hunting with a shotgun ( pump or semi-auto) they wouldn't follow that rule. A lot of people that hunt with shotguns do deer drives I doubt they would follow the 1 shot rule as the deer are running and a another shot is common.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

I would be all for a separate bonus 2 day late season flintlock season.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Always put the late Muzzle loader season to start on Jan.2 and end on Jan. 5.
I really liked the watching of the Jan.1 Bowl games at deer camp uninterrupted. You just upset that 45-70 didn't take a deer first year out of the box...lol


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## fordmanforever (Oct 24, 2011)

why not allow bp for the whole month of january ?


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

hopin to cash said:


> Always put the late Muzzle loader season to start on Jan.2 and end on Jan. 5.
> 
> I really liked the watching of the Jan.1 Bowl games at deer camp uninterrupted. You just upset that 45-70 didn't take a deer first year out of the box...lol



That would make most people upset. I think having it fall during the weekend is more important than a football game. 


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

The current muzzleloaders season started many years ago called a "primitive weapons season"

When crossbows were first permitted to be used in Ohio it was only during the 3 day primitive weapons season.

I think the reason it still exists, with the name change to muzzleloader season, even with the advancements in equipment technology is because it is a very popular season with hunters. Even with the advancements made with modern MZ's you still have to pour powder down the barrel and shove in a bullet for your one shot. 

The MZ season is by far my favorite season of the year. I don't kill any more deer in one year because of it, I just choose to kill my deer during it.

Your logic of a "last chance season" with any weapon would equally apply to a "first chance season" in early November with any weapon.

We have seasons separated by equipment, archery, gun, muzzleloader. If you want to hunt all seasons you need to hunt with the appropriate equipment to participate and I think the ODNR has that right in my opinion.


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## tOSUSteve (May 30, 2007)

All we read is there are not enough deer & you want to be able to use ANY weapon or have BP for an entire month? ODNR is in a no-win position


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *hopintocash2*:
> 
> why not have a last chance season, where any legal firearm is allowed but only one shot can be loaded.


In other words, do away with m/l season and just extend the reg. gun season and limiting it to one shot only?

While 'front stuffers' have come a long way, they still take the same basic steps to load. They load from the from the front, dumping a charge down the bbl. , running a projectile down the bbl as well and inserting a primer. There is no cartridge involved and no way of loading a backup shot into the rifle. The 'one shot' loading process cannot be sidestepped or cheated. 

Besides really enjoying the aspect of m/l'er season and everything it brings, when I'm in the woods and hear that single shot, then possibly another a few minutes later. Versus the 3 (often times, still 5 shots for those slob hunters we have amongst us) rapid fired shots that are shot so fast that it is humanly impossible to be shooting with any resemblance of accuracy. 

In other words, m/l'er season takes away the 'spray and pray' aspect of the game. Too, if the 'extended gun season' you are referring to with the added law of one shot only loaded is followed like the current '3 shot law' , I don't think we hunters as a group can be trusted to follow that law. 
ODNR put on an extensive raid in this area a few years back during gun season. Which included a chopper and many ground units in pickups and quads. Within an approx. 40mi square area they wrote over 70 citations for unplugged and more then 3 shot loaded into shotguns. Once again, we are our own worse enemy.

To sum things up, IMO , like others here, and as Lundy pointed out, I think ODNR has done a good job in the separation of the seasons.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

The art of mz hunting has been lost. we now, me included, drop a few pellets down the barrel, shove in some fancy bullet, put some super hot igniter on and bingo, we have a 200 yard single shot rifle, with no worries about a misfire, or rain or snow. just remembering how much more there used to be to mz shooting.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *hopintocash2*:
> 
> The art of mz hunting has been lost.


It's only lost if a person chooses to let it be lost. And I must add, once I worked up the right hunting loads for the various sidelocks I use/used, my basic loading techniques in those were the same as the inlines. Too, I never worried about misfires with proper care using them any more then I do with the inlines. And have hunted many years with both in rain, sleet and snow just the same.



> Orig. posted by *hopin to cash*:
> 
> You just upset that 45-70 didn't take a deer first year out of the box...lol


I bet that new 45-70 without any blood on it would enjoy shooting some coyote's for practice. lol


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

I really liked the season dates this year. I like the option of using my Hawkens or inline rifles. I see no reason to change anything.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

ironman172 said:


> I only shoot once anyway , so no big deal for me....
> I wish they would let land owners that own a certain amount of land use any weapon throughout the season, so long as you didn't exceed your counties limit.
> 
> I agree why not let land owners use any legal means. If we get a kill permit we can use anything we want. Doesn't make much sense my tree farm neighbor uses a 30-6 year round
> ...




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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

fastwater said:


> It's only lost if a person chooses to let it be lost. And I must add, once I worked up the right hunting loads for the various sidelocks I use/used, my basic loading techniques in those were the same as the inlines. Too, I never worried about misfires with proper care using them any more then I do with the inlines. And have hunted many years with both in rain, sleet and snow just the same.
> 
> 
> 
> I bet that new 45-70 without any blood on it would enjoy shooting some coyote's for practice. lol


Some yote blood on it would be good, I may give it a try soon. I also think I'll get my old caplock out sometime and do some shooting with it. maybe use it next year for the early mz season if we have one. haven't shot that thing in years.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *hopintocash2*:
> 
> I also think I'll get my old sidelock out sometime and do some shooting with it. maybe use it next year for the early mz season if we have one. haven't shot that thing in years.


Always a blast.

The inlines are a lot of fun to shoot but the sidelocks have always been my fav. From punching holes in paper to hunting squirrels with the .36cal to hunting coyote and deer with the .45 or .50 cals. 

Like many here that feel the late 4 day deer m/l'er season is crazy short , we extend our m/l season by using them during the deer gun season also. I try and split the two season up using both the sidelocks and inlines.

Just can't seem to put the bow down long enough to hunt the early m/l season. I know it's just me and being used to years of m/l hunting when it's cold but I just can't get used to hunting deer with a m/l when it's warm. Who knows, may give it a try as well next year.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

hopintocash2 said:


> with todays modern smokepoles, why have a designated bp season? they are some of the most powerful guns we hunt with now. why not have a _last chance season_, where any legal firearm is allowed but only one shot can be loaded. make the early bp season flintlock/caplock season.
> just thinking out loud, winter boredom setting in already.


one shot last chance season.. yea, all the desperate deerless hunters will follow the "one shot rule" sure, nobody would ever think of shooting more than once in the cold days of jan at that deer they need so they can fill that tag thats about to be no good.. im just thinking out loud too


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

ezbite said:


> one shot last chance season.. yea, all the desperate deerless hunters will follow the "one shot rule" sure, nobody would ever think of shooting more than once in the cold days of jan at that deer they need so they can fill that tag thats about to be no good.. im just thinking out loud too


Yep, you're right. it would be on the honor system and I suppose that system no longer works.

But, that is the system we use for deer checking, 3 shot rule for gun, not hunting before or after hours, not using a sight capable of projecting a beam of light on our bows, 2 way radios... etc.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

There are other nearby that have recently changed the "blackpowder or muzzleloading" season to a single shot season. They key is the firearm itself MUST be a single action (shotgun or PCR 35 or larger).

The DNR departments sighted a noted decrease in interest; especially in the youth and younger generation of hunters. I was just reading about this.

Me personally, I love front loaders and enjoy hunting and shooting with them. I've hunted with a front loading rifle during the regular gun season for many many years now. It's been since the 95 season that I had a shotgun in my hand with maybe one exception (I take as backup gun and had to use it once in a pinch). 

I also believe our state doesn't seem to lack interest in the season. Every guy I hunt deer with owns and hunts the season unless they are tagged out. They are all serious deer hunters, but IMO OH doesn't suffer from lack of interest. I am a traditionalist so I am biased, but I don't think we need to follow suit and allow a single shot firearm season....just my opinion.

Although I did pick up a couple Handi rifles in 35 whelen and 444 Marlin and I plan on taking a deer some day with one just because I want to and it is now legal.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

friday afternoon i climbed up a hill in woodbury, found a nice ledge to sit on, 30 minutes later a small 8 point comes crashing thru, stops about 60 yards below me, i put the cross hairs on him from my tc inline and squeeze the trigger knowing that he is dead, he ran 50 yards and expired. it was at that point that i thought to myself, what is the difference between this and gun season, other than i have one shot. i never once was worried about a misfire, i don't have to take any special precautions regarding my gun, powder, ignition...nothing. it's no different than any other rifle anymore other than what end you load it from. i guess i'm just getting old and remember the days when mz hunting was more than just shooting a deer. i guess tradition is why we like it so much, but i think we've lost touch with the tradition. now it's about how far i can shoot with my front loading rifle.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Hopin - sounds to me like you have lost interest in front loaders (not trying to offend in any way). With the advances in equipment, propellents in pellet form, etc. one can make front loading little different than shooting a single shot shotgun or rifle. I have shot pellets, powerbelts andown modern equipment (I'm not flintlock hunting). This kind of bores me.....as I came up front loading with a cheap Hawkins measuring loose powder shooting patch and ball - that thing seemed like it weighed 40 lbs!LOL

So although I have shot pellets, white hots, powerbelts (only because they came with a rifle they suck IMO) that isn;t how I spend my time front loading. I use loose powder, I experiment with loads and bullets (I like mostly Barnes as all my rifles like them). I shoot a lot with my front loaders...not just when hunting season comes around. This keeps my interest level high - I really enjoy the aspect of "creating" the right hunting load for each rifle and tinkering. Although the performance is greatly beyond that old Hawkins with ball and patch I get that same fun and experience. 

I realize not everybody enjoys the same things. I do know many others that I shoot and hunt with that enjoy all these same things about front loaders. Although I am a traditionalist I am not against change if I believe it is for the better. At the current time I just feel like there is plenty of interest in OH to continue as is without a rule change as some other states have implimented. If the season participation dies in the future I would favor the change......it wouldn;t harm me as I woul still take to the woods with a front loader


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

i still like the season, and will still hunt it, and i like my inline. it just crossed my mind how much mz season has changed....but of course i guess that could be said for all seasons. sucks getting old and remembering the olden days. my group was talking about the old days when people gathered at check stations to view deer, talk to other hunters, just hang out. i guess i just miss the old days.


it seems like deer season has become a competition instead of a *tradition*


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

Indiana now has a late doe season. this year it ran from dec 26th thorugh jan 4th. if I am not mistaken you can use any gun that's legal in the regular season. you just have to take antlerless deer. and the whole state is not open just the counties they think still has to many deer.
sherman


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

hopin - I hear you and there is much I miss about deer hunting from when my dad started taking me along over 25 years ago. It sure has changed a lot.

ironman - not to jack the thread, but yes powerbelts are about the worst bullet ever made IMO. Very poor seal coupled with most guys shooting pellets = very poor load. They are especially poor hunting rounds....poke around on the web and you'll find plenty of terrible reports. There are many good bullet manufacturers and each rifle can be a little different in what it "likes" to get max performance. That said I have not gone wrong shooting Barnes through 3 different makes of muzzle loaders and highly recommend them to others to try. When spring breaks pick some up and do alittle experimenting and I bet you can get that rifle shooting more consistent.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

Fish-N-Fool said:


> hopin - I hear you and there is much I miss about deer hunting from when my dad started taking me along over 25 years ago. It sure has changed a lot.
> 
> ironman - not to jack the thread, but yes powerbelts are about the worst bullet ever made IMO. Very poor seal coupled with most guys shooting pellets = very poor load. They are especially poor hunting rounds....poke around on the web and you'll find plenty of terrible reports. There are many good bullet manufacturers and each rifle can be a little different in what it "likes" to get max performance. That said I have not gone wrong shooting Barnes through 3 different makes of muzzle loaders and highly recommend them to others to try. When spring breaks pick some up and do alittle experimenting and I bet you can get that rifle shooting more consistent.


I never had any luck with powerbelts but my brother and best friend shoot them out of there pursuits with great results. I use hornandy xtp's.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

The season has changed over the years, the equipment and the name, but the one constant is how you have to load the gun from the muzzle end.

We do not have a black powder season today, we have a muzzleloader season. 

We actually have never had a black powder season we had a Primitive Weapons season. It just so happened back in the beginning almost everyone participated with a gun actually shot black powder guns because Pyrodex, T7,White Hots, BH 209 didn't exist yet, today I'm guessing a small percentage actually shoot black powder.

Todays muzzleloader season is what ever you decide to make of it. You can shoot a modern inline shooting BP substitutes, or smokeless MZ's, or a traditional caplock or flintlock with BP. It is the hunters choice as long as it loads from the muzzle.

I want to see the muzzleloader season stay exactly what it is, a gun that you have to load from the muzzle.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *Lundy*:
> 
> I want to see the muzzleloader season stay exactly what it is, a gun that you have to load from the muzzle.


Same here...

I do sympathize and agree with *hopin* that the art of m/ling may be diminishing. IMO, to a certain extent, so is the art of shooting period...
and I think us shooters/hunters that are parents have had a lot to do with the 'arts' being lost.

When a lot of us were kids and our dads/mentors that taught us shooting and hunting, did so with a single shot firearm. We learned the 'one shot, one kill' method by force if we wanted to be in the field. Didn't matter whether we were using a shotgun, .22 rifle or m/l. 

Heck, I never owned a shotgun capable of loading more than one round till I was 18-19yrs old, was out on my own and married. And had been hunting, shooting starting at about 7. Got my 1st m/l at about 12. The m/l and the single shot shotguns and rifle just seemed to go hand-n-hand growing up. 

Reading *ironmans* post about 'shooting one time' would lead me to believe he was raised this way as well. Don't know him but if I were a betting man, I'd bet he was. 

Seems as though today, the 1st shotgun a kid starts out with is a pump gun. That 'comfort zone' in a kids mind of having 2-4 backup shots in case they miss with the 1st round IMO, only handicaps the child's learning.

Hence...the 'spray and pray' mentality is born.
Sadly, this same mentality continues into this child's adulthood and when this child becomes an adult and has kids of his own, he teach's his children the same poor tactics he learned from. And the erosion of the 'art of shooting' continues.

If we don't believe this is happening, just sit and listen to the reports during deer gun season. Do we really think that all the 3 shot burst we hear that are shot so fast they sound like they are shot from an AR with the 3 shot selector switch engaged are coming from kids that don't know any better? No, these reports are coming from those that are considered by law to be adults that don't have a clue about the 'art of shooting' nor the 'art of hunting' for that matter. Do we think that ALL these adults doing this are hunting alone and don't have any kids with them watching/hearing and learning from their peers?

So again, while I do think the 'art of m/l'ing' is diminishing, I think the 'art of shooting'...and with them, the 'art of ethical hunting' is diminishing as well.


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

No one ever said muzzle loading had to be difficult, dirty, close ranged, inaccurate, smokey or unreliable. The technology of the times dictated that. Technology can and usually does fix life's difficulties.

The majority of hunters will always migrate to the next best thing marketing can sell us. Technology will advance and the woods will always crawl with it. You can either embrace it or cling to tradition. Then there is the third option. Embrace everything you can and do what you like best the most and make it your own tradition to pass on.

Since this is primarily a fishing site I have always wondered how the fishing community handles things. Let me explain...

Let's say I have more disposable income than most. I dump 50k into a fishing vessel and fishing equipment. All the latest electronics, gadgets and nothing but time on my hands. I then gloat week after week about my wonderful fishing prowess displaying pictures of my champion level quarry.

I believe there is a certain amount of envy when that occurs but it is, from what I can tell, generally accepted. Maybe even more so if I use a slightly more primitive style of fishing even though I have the cat's meow of gear and it told me everything I needed to know when I threw that minnow into the honey hole using a cane pole.

Relate that to someone who invests in land, grows food plots, uses trail cameras, builds a comfortable place to hunt from and then invests several thousand dollars in a firearm that can shoot 5 gallon bucket lids all day long at 500 yards.

When fisherman adapt, overcome and improvise, it seems to be acceptable. When hunters do the same it seems to be frowned upon. There also seems to be some class warfare going on with hunters that is ignored with fisherman too.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Excellent post *buckeye dan*. Well said.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

Lundy said:


> The season has changed over the years, the equipment and the name, but the one constant is how you have to load the gun from the muzzle end.
> 
> We do not have a black powder season today, we have a muzzleloader season.
> 
> ...


the same could be said for a last chance single shot rifle season, you make of it what you want.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

hopintocash2 said:


> the same could be said for a last chance single shot rifle season, you make of it what you want.



There is already a 4 day state wide "last chance single shot rifle season", but you need to load from the muzzle, not the breech.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

Lundy said:


> There is already a 4 day state wide "last chance single shot rifle season", but you need to load from the muzzle, not the breech.


what is the difference what end i load it from? and why are you so against it? mz hunting has evolved into single shot rifle season. you can use your front loader 12 hunting days, i can only use my breech loader 6. we could go to a one shot rifle season and that should no way effect you.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Actually I can use a muzzleloader 13 days and you can use a breech loader for 7 days.

MZ season has always been a single shot rifle season from it's first day.

I'm sure you equally recognize the advancements in guns and projectiles, and bowhunting equipment that is used today during our gun season and bow seasons as compared to many years ago also, it is not just Muzzleloaders that have advanced

There was a last chance gun season up until 2 years ago, the 2 day gun season. It was eliminated. I'm pretty sure you are going to see any new centerfire single shot gun seasons anytime soon.


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

Yes I would agree about advances in all hunting. Which leads me back to my original question, why have a mz season?might as well make it a single shot rifle season.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *hopintocash2*:
> 
> Which leads me back to my original question, why have a mz season?might as well make it a single shot rifle season.


As has been said before in many of the posts...one of the biggest reasons is we hunters(as a whole) can't be trusted to load just one round. Many still don't know the difference between 3 and 5 rds. And if you think that's not the truth, check with your local GW and see how many tickets they have written during past gun seasons for unplugged shotguns. 

Too, a person can reload a centerfire rifle or single shot shotgun much faster then someone can reload a ml'er. Making the chances of shooting multiple deer in one setting that are usually herded up during the late ml season a greater possibility. 
Especially does that have most likely been bred by the late ml season which would even further reduce an already rapidly dwindling deer herd....and with respect, the already dwindling deer herd may be the reason you weren't able to connect during gun season.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

With the advent of technology with MZ's why do you feel there is a need for a breech loaded centerfire rifle season?

Why only single shot rifles?

Wouldn't you need to include all slug guns also? If not why?

Wouldn't you need to include handguns also? If not why?


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

fastwater said:


> As has been said before in many of the posts...one of the biggest reasons is we hunters(as a whole) can't be trusted to load just one round. Many still don't know the difference between 3 and 5 rds. And if you think that's not the truth, check with your local GW and see how many tickets they have written during past gun seasons for unplugged shotguns.
> 
> Too, a person can reload a centerfire rifle or single shot shotgun much faster then someone can reload a ml'er. Making the chances of shooting multiple deer in one setting that are usually herded up during the late ml season a greater possibility.
> Especially does that have most likely been bred by the late ml season which would even further reduce an already rapidly dwindling deer herd....and with respect, the already dwindling deer herd may be the reason you weren't able to connect during gun season.


I will speak for CASH2 here... our group is always successful hunting deer. We manage to harvest deer from both public and or private land within our group. Yes the deer population state wide is down... that's a fact. ODNR did certainly take steps in limiting antlerless tags but in my honest opinion it was 3-4 years to late. Muzzle loader as it is called is no more than a extra four days of single shot rifle hunting. Love it and have not missed a chance to hunt in years but as stated the advancements in technology have made it a rifle season. 

As you state above hunters cant be trusted to put only one shot in the weapon of choice... but the state now trust that all hunters will legally check deer in over the phone or internet... kind of a joke don't you think? The entire hunting experience has changed with so called technology. I think we all or at least I do long for the old days, breakfast along with the old timers telling stories of the big buck to kids, lending a hand to a greenhorn field dress out in the woods, gathering around that one truck at the check station with the big one hanging off the tail gate. Yep still love to hunt as my grandfather and father taught me but sure miss the old days!!:flag:


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

I don't see the state ever making a season like this, so best if mz is left alone. I'm sure there would people incapable of following the law. so since it's not broken, don't fix it.
It all comes down to what end you want to shove it in


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig. posted by *hopin to cash*:
> 
> I will speak for CASH2 here... our group is always successful hunting deer. We manage to harvest deer from both public and or private land within our group.


I have no doubt the above is true. And again, with respect, did not mean anything in my post to the contrary and I apologize if it was taken any way other then the way I intended it to be. 

The point I was trying to make was with the already dwindling deer herd, maybe this was the reason *cash2* didn't connect. Doesn't matter how capable a hunter someone is, if the deer aren't there, they won't be shot. 



> Orig. posted by *hopin to cash*:
> 
> Muzzle loader as it is called is no more than a extra four days of single shot rifle hunting. Love it and have not missed a chance to hunt in years but as stated the advancements in technology have made it a rifle season.


 *'Muzzle loader as it is called is no more than a extra four days of single shot rifle hunting'*...in which you still have to take the time to pour your powder and shove projectile down the bbl and inst. your primer. Again, with all the time and movement it takes to do this, our chances of shooting multiple, herded deer(most likely pregnant does) in the same setting are greatly reduced. 

You guys are outdoorsman and no doubt very capable ones. Let me ask you a fair question. How many accurate shots do you figure you could get off out of your centerfire rifles reloading it by the time I can reload my ml. ?

Say you could get 3-5 shots off before I can reload my ml and get my 2nd shot off, lets do a scenario...

This 'last chance' system has been put in place allowing hunters to use a centerfire rifle loaded with one rd only.

There are 6 doe herded up feeding in a field. Two hunters, one using a centerfire rifle, the other a m/. Both have 2 tags left just burning a hole in their pockets.
Hunter with ml shoots a doe. In the time, with the movement it takes for him to reload and the smoke clears his doe is laid in the middle of the field and the rest of the doe are gone.
Hunter with centerfire rifle shoots his doe and before the rest of the doe realize what is happening the hunter reloads and downs another before the deer can clear the field. Totally possible as its been done often even using a much stiffer recoiling shotgun.

Sooo.... now we have 3 dead doe instead of 2. 

Given the fact that this happened during the late ml season when most doe's are pregnant we have now taken at least 6 doe out of the herd(more if the does are carrying twins) instead of 4 deer for next year. 
Say this same scenario happens only 500 in the state that one year. 
Don't have to think real hard what we hunters will be doing to our own deer herd. Once again, we have to remember the timing of the late ml season. 

We all miss many aspects of the 'old days' when it comes to hunting. But there is a part of 'old days' and deer hunting I don't miss. That's hunting all season long from the start of bow season to the end of bow season hunting every season in between and MAYBE seeing one deer all season long.
IMO, sadly there are those that think the times reappearing are an impossibility.

Since we agree on the diminishing deer herd...we can go back and forth from now on as to what should be legal, what laws should be changed and so forth...but does it really matter if our deer herd is diminished to the point that our chances of bagging a deer even in gun season is very minimal?

We as hunters have to start policing ourselves even if that means not taking a deer at all for a season or reducing the number of deer we take in a season. Regardless of ODNR set bags limits. Which FWIW, are set on a deer herd they(Odnr) has admitted they don't have an accurate count on and their estimate MAY be elevated to what they said it is.


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## FlashGordon (Mar 19, 2014)

In light of all this talk about a "last chance season", personally I think we should just have longer seasons and smaller bag limits for all weapons.

I think it's stupid that one person can theoretically take nine deer per year. Smaller bag limits and longer seasons would give more people a chance to get at least one deer each year.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

You reflect my thoughts to a tee fastwater... our group has cut way down on our harvest total... we basically have 3 guys out of 7 that will not shoot a doe right now. We are only buying a 2nd tag if drawn for a controlled hunt. We are covering a lot more public land and making sure we secure our private land for years to come. I don't think the white tail will become extinct in OHIO but can appreciate what some old timers left us with a few years ago down in Jefferson... quote " back in the '70 if you even saw a deer track you went and got your buddy to show him... appreciate what you have boys, he said, as it was not always this way", 

Humbling but at the same time concerning to the future of our sport.

Go Buckeyes and by the why fastwater is the Orange Carpet still in Lancaster?


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

If you want to make changes you should attend the Spring open houses in March at the different district headquarters and suggest what you would like to see. It may not be the main topic they are discussing but you can still write it out on the suggestion sheet they have there and see what happens. Nevertheless even if they accept your idea it will take time for them to change it. They never do anything quickly.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

> Orig posted by *hopin to cash*:
> 
> Go Buckeyes and *by the why fastwater is the Orange Carpet still in Lancaster?*


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Yes sir! Far as I know....and yes, *GO BUCKEYES*


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

fastwater said:


> There are 6 doe herded up feeding in a field. Two hunters, one using a centerfire rifle, the other a m/. Both have 2 tags left just burning a hole in their pockets.
> Hunter with ml shoots a doe. In the time, with the movement it takes for him to reload and the smoke clears his doe is laid in the middle of the field and the rest of the doe are gone.
> *Hunter with centerfire rifle shoots his doe and before the rest of the doe realize what is happening the hunter reloads and downs another before the deer can clear the field.* Totally possible as its been done often even using a much stiffer recoiling shotgun.
> 
> ...


is this legal? last i knew, deer #1 had to have a tag on it before deer #2 could be shot. but you are right, there are slob hunters out there that would pull a stunt like that. without checking the rules, i think it is illegal, and IMO unethical.

i thru an idea out there , and from the small sampling here, doesn't sound like it would be popular, and that's ok. it was just an idea, and i thank everyone for keeping it a friendly debate and not a fight. the fact that we can debate on here means we are on the right side of the grass

oh, GO BUCKS.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Yes, the scenario with the hunter using the centerfire rifle would be illegal. But it happens. And given the facts that the hunter had two tags left and knowing this is his last chance to fill the tags, the temptation may be too great. 

Over the years, I've sit and watched this same scenario play out more than once during shotgun season. One instance was with a dad and his teenage son in which the dad shot two doe with his son on a stand down the hill about 75yds watching the whole thing. This happened on public property in Hocking Co. Watched the dad fill out and tag one doe and the son filled a tag out for the other.

I was across a power line watching the whole thing through bino's thinking to myself just how much of a low-life this dad was to teach his son slob hunting tactics. That boy most likely never stood much of a chance in amounting to a responsible sportsman.
Currently know another family the same way. They all hunt ( including the mom) and all portray some of the worst hunting sportsmanship and hunting morals I've ever seen. All taught by 'dad'(and I used that word loosely). If you look up the definition of 'slob hunter' in the dictionary, his picture is most likely there. 
The year they put the big raid on here, that whole family got busted for unplugged shotguns. Never taught them a thing.


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