# Help!! Weeds taking over!



## bcarmean

Well this is the my 2nd summer owning this pond. Last year weeds got so bad they covered over half the pond, this year water is not as low but they still cover a good 10ft out from most of the bank, and geting worse. I don't mind some weeds for fry cover but the fishing is suffering from the bank.

Here are some pics of some of the weeds.. Maybe you can give some suggestions.. Don't want to harm the fish obviously.



















*Can muskrats do this? Beavers in my pond?*








*Disease? *








*Closer Look*


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## 1st shirt

There is a chemical you can put in your pond that should get rid of a lot of the weeds without harming the fish, but can't think of the name of it. A search for "pond weed control" should fine it. Another choice is to get some grass carp. It's best to get two. They do better in at lease pairs. You also might want to consider installing a good fountain. That keeps a ripple on the water so the sun can't penetrate as much, which helps keep the weeds down. Nice looking pond. 

Good Luck!
Ron


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## monte433

The black spots on the leaves look like something laid eggs on them.


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## Fishman

Here's what ya have and here's what you have to do about it if you want to rid yourself of all the vegetation you posted.

The first aquatic weed I see is American Pondweed. It is the one that has the floating leafs on the surface that look somewhat like a willow leaf. This can be killed with Reward very easily. Aqua pro can work, but it not where near as effective as defoliants in my opinion.

I also see you have filamentous algae, very bright green - without touching it it's hard to say what it is to be sure - but I'll go spyrogira algae to be somewhat general. Very easy to kill with copper products.

The next plant I see is spiked rush, the guys standing 10" out of the water with the seed pods on the top. Easily killed with Aquapro.

Then I notice cattails, the ones growing on the outter edge. This can be easily controlled with Aqua Pro.

The black spots on the cattails are mosquito eggs, an excellant indicator of a healthy insect population in your pond for your fish  not so much for you though  If you're concerned about the mosquitos the most effective way to rid your pond of them is with mosquito fish, also known as Gambusia. These little guys reproduce like mad, can swim in the shallowest of water and offer an extra forgage fish for your smaller bass and gills. In winter about 90&#37; of them die, as they are really a warm water fish but the next year that 10% will easily re-establish the population.

The chews on the willow are to the best of my knowledge a beaver. They can be trapped but you'll need to contact the DNR officer to see what he can do for you in terms of the situation. 

If for some reason you want to kill the willow use AquaPro.

So, as far as the vegetation goes.... purchase some AquaPro some Cide Kick II. A quart of each should do it for you. 2 oz's of each per gallon of water and apply it thouroughly over the cat tails.. and willow (if you wish.) They will start to die within a few days but won't fully be dead for a good 2 weeks. You will need to spot treat some cattails again undoubtedly do it as needed, or control where it spreads too if you want to keep some cattails.

Next purchase some Cutrine Plus and some Reward. Mix 1/3 of a gallon of Cutrine to a gallon of water and 1/5 a gallon of reward to that gallon of water as well. If it's green, reward will defoliate it. Your pond looks clear, making it a good canidate for reward to use. Muddy ponds can render rewards potency rather easily by some molecule in the chemical binding with clay rather easily or something to that effect. Regardless using it in your pond would be ideal. Spray this mixture evenly over the filamentous algae and american pond weed. This time of year you probably could spray the entire pond, but to be safe I recommend doing one half, waiting 10 days and then spraying the other half.

After all that is taken care of, address the spiked rush if you really have too. Use the same aquapro cidekick mix you use for cat tails on them and use a very fine mist to spray them. Only do this on dead calm days so you don't kill your grass  The reason I leave this one for last is because you will more than likely be spraying filamentous algae and american pond weed amongt the spiked rush, and are going to be killing some of it. Plus there's a good chance if you sprayed this stuff the same day you would more than likely wash off the AquaPro rendering it useless.

If you have any other questions about this or any other types of aqautic vegetation growing in there that I can't see in the photos, by all means feel free to post them and I'll identify them for ya and tell ya how to wax'em


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## Fishman

I should add you may have to spot treat for some American Pondweed less and less as time wears on because you'll eventually just starve them to death. You'll also probably have to spot treat for algae.

How deep is this pond?


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## bcarmean

Fishman said:


> I should add you may have to spot treat for some American Pondweed less and less as time wears on because you'll eventually just starve them to death. You'll also probably have to spot treat for algae.
> 
> How deep is this pond?


Fisherman, wow what a helpful response.. I truly appreciate you taking the time to type all that. 

The pond is 10ft at its deepest point, I'd say maybe half the pond is 5ft or less

here are some more pics

Full pond shot, no weeds winter  1/2ac I'm guessing








Close weed pic








Water clarity shot









If you wouldnt mind bullet point me a to-buy list and where I may be able to get them. Im going to start the buying process.

Again I can't thank you enough- Brandon


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## Fishman

I personally work down at Jones Fish in Cincinnati, and do this stuff for a living so obviously I'm going to point you in the direction of www.jonesfish.com and the chemicals can be purchased via that webpage, however, and I feel it's important to add this ATAC the sponser you see on the top right corner does contribute funds to keep this site up and running  Do as you see fit, I'll take no offense in you purchasing from a competitor


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## Fishman

Ah one last thing, I'de highly recommend purchasing 6 amurs aka grass carp. Your filamentous situation really isn't that bad, and once you get the American pond weed under control more than likely your pond will be "pristine" (read devoid) of most vegetation. If you want to have some vegetaion cut the number of amurs in half and I think you'll be satisfied with the results. I personally think the goal should be to achieve a self sustaining pond, with minimal chemical use available. Obviously sometimes chemicals become a nessecity when mother nature can't correct what we probably caused  If you ordered those fish from us you could order the fish and asked that those chemicals be dropped off to you during the time of the delivery to save you the expense of shipping and get the delivery for free. If you rather go the other route... and I don't honestly know, but I think you can purchase Cutrine at tractor supply stores. Reward is probably harder to come by... look for an aquatic herbacide that contains diquat dibromide. That will be an eqivilent of Reward. I think Weed-Trine D is a comparable product. But look at the &#37; of active ingredient when by your pond chemicals. Weed Trine although less expensive contains a significant less ammout of actual diquat dibromide... the good stuff so to speak


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## Fishman

Heh, sorry for making a whole nother message, but if those pictures of the American Pond weed are current - the "things" sticking out of the water are the flowers/seed pods of the pond weed. Expect a reemergence of them the following spring. Since they went to seed on you. I wouldn't expect it to be near as bad next year as this year though since hopefully most of the seeds this time of year are immature when their parent is killed.


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## wildman

Well I have bone to pick with you (lol) no, I'm not that upset. I have an 8.5 acre lake and I have weed problem. I went to jones and was told to use reward and then told to use aqua pro with sidekick. Wait I getting ahead of my self. The problem is 1 I have coontail out the wazu just a ton of it now. When I went it wasn't as bad. and 2 I have the plant that in native to rivers it's in the primrose family. The Coontail---- I was told to use the reward with cutrein at like 14 oz per gal I sprayed about an acre in the back and for the primrose I used aqua pro at 2 oz per gal with side kick and I sprayed half in lakes banks. 6 hours of spraying and $350.00 later nothing! The reward killed the Some lillys and Some of the primrose but it came back because its not a sustimic spray like the aqua pro but other than that I got no results from either. It happened and it sucks. but I need results By the spring weather I drag spray what ever it takes I need this stuff gone. Actually I take it back on all of it but I need it controlled and removed in lots of areas any ideas??? please help I do have a degree in fish in wildlife. but unused knowledge is sometimes forgotten knowledge.


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## wildman

I didn't read your remedy down below and i'm not doubting your knowledge. I did all the spraying so I do know it was done correctly. It is spring feed l don't Know if that makes a difference and I know its going to take more than $350 to clean it up . It's lake Remington in loveland. Its a paylake and I have to start on it early in the spring or when ever you suggest. HELP!!


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## Fishman

Sorry man, you bumped a very old post and I simply missed it 

In regards to the "primrose" you more than likely have creeping water primrose:










Using Cide-Kick and AquaPro at 2 oz of each product per gallon of water you will be able to kill any aquatic emergent. There are really only 2 plausible reasons why it didn't work;

1. You didn't mix the solution after you added the chemicals to your mix. AquaPro sinks(I think), Cide-Kick floats, the water which makes up the vast majority of your mix is in the middle. If you're using a 4 gallon backpack sprayer you basically spent the vast majority of your time spraying water or an extemely weak mixture. To much AquaPro or Cidekick would burn your plants but not kill them systemically.

OR

2. You sprayed either prior to rain or in the morning before the dew had evaporated or you simply applied to much. 3 hours contact time is a minimum... personally I recommend doing it on an extremely sunny day around 11 or 12 for best results, really anytime after the dew has lifted will suffice. The later in the day you spray the less effective your treatment will be. Don't over spray the plant, as excess will just cause the plants to drip the chemical into the water rendering it useless.

Creeping water primrose is extremely easy to kill using those methods above. Results will take a few days to see and at 2 weeks they will be toast. I'll openly admitt cattails sometimes give me problems but primrose - never  I think I have a tendency to overspray and the since the cattails are verticle the drenching simply run off the plants. I've lightened up how much I give them and have noticed positive results.

On to the coontail.










First of all it's important to remember that coontail is a free floating plant. It can anchor it's self to the bottom but if you have it confined in one area it's very likely it's not going to remain confined for long.

A gallon of reward in an 8 1/2 acre lake is a drop in a bucket. Coontail grows like wildfire once it's established. I'm assuming you had problems with it in the past - meaning it was everywhere prior to treatment but has just reached it's annual apex. Personally I'de use a minimum of 1/5 of a gallon, almost twice the ammount you used, per gallon of water. Really you can mix the cutrine lightly 1/5 a gallon to a gallon of H20 as well since all your doing it using it to speed up the process of killing the coontail. You do not need to use cutrine with the reward if you do not want to. Reward alone will do the trick but I always use cutrine with it because it adds an extra kick, so to speak, to the mixture.

But I wouldn't use reward in your situation anyways. In my opinion there really are only two options. Sonar or Aquathol. Reward isn't realistic because its extremely expensive and is rendered near useless is muddy water, which ironically seems to be where I see most coontail infestations. Aquathol and Sonar are both going to be expensive as well and both have their pros and cons. Sonar is going to kill your lillys and just about any other pondweed you have in the pond. You will ultimaley get better control from it over Aquathol. It's going to be a one time very expensive application. Aquathol however allows you to choose the areas you kill if you wish to leave some aquatic vegetaion but with coontail being the problem you really need to wipe everything out. More than likley you be making applications the following year if you don't wipe it all out the first time using Aquathol.

If it were up to me, and I wanted to do it by the most cost effective means possible I'de use Sonar next May/June... Does the pond level drop at anytime of the year, suggesting the water is evaporating faster than the is filling it or at least it slow to a trickle. For sonar treatments it's best there be no flowthrough in the pond. The worst part is Sonar pretty much devoids your pond of any aquatic vegetation (minus algaes of any form) which is simply bad.

Amurs will eat the stuff, but it would take a small army of them to make any notable difference if it truley is infested. Infested to me, means it's covering a large percentage of the surface. Dollar for dollar this is really going to be your cheapest option but it may take 100+ fish to do it. Again... please define how bad it is.

Sorry for such a long post... don't be afriad to ask any additional questions.


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## Lewzer

I think this is a great thread!
Fishman if you have the time a new thread about the different types of aquatic plants w/ pictures would be fantastic.
I used to take bunches of coontails out of lakes for my aquariums when I had them. I never knew the actual name of it though.


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## [email protected]

I think I'd hire Fishman if I had an 8.5 acre lake


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## fishintiger

[email protected] said:


> I think I'd hire Fishman if I had an 8.5 acre lake


I was kind of thinking the same thing. Well I would hire him regardless of the size of my pond.  He's always full of helpful information (or something  ). I think I've learned a lot from him and I don't even own a pond.


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## Fishman

Lewzer said:


> Fishman if you have the time a new thread about the different types of aquatic plants w/ pictures would be fantastic.


I've really been considering doing this actually. In a few weeks I could easily compile most of plants one would expect to see in the surrounding area. No promises.... but we'll see  

As far as treatment methods go for the plants you'll find around here - there really are a lot of options out there for consumers. I have quite an arsenal of chemicals available to me (25 different types or so) but in all honestly I only use about 7 of them. Quite frankly, I don't like making management advise untill I actually see what's there and the exact conditions that exsist. A lot of things can go wrong if done improperly to put it lightly.


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## Fishman

Lewzer, decided to take the digital camera with me to work today. 81 pictures in total.... put a nice dent in species but there are quite a few I'm missing. Give me a week to fill in all the blanks I possibly can. Heading to a party in a little bit, but it gives me a minute to show ya some "cool" pictures.


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## wildman

Thank you for the reply. As long as it's as informative and yours was it can never be to long. The only thing that I can come up with is that I over sprayed the primrose. The kind of primrose that I have has a purple flower. 
The lake is infested with coontail and yes I am aware of it structure that it has no roots that it absorbs nutrients in the water. I have 6 to 8 foot of it in 70% of the lake. I also now that fish love it our fish are some of the healthiest fish of any cat fishing pay lake. But my analogy is if a twinky comes bouncing in front of me weather I'm hungry or not I eat it. If I'm (I meaning the catfish) is in the coontail it never gets tempted by the twinky or shad head. My point is I want to get rid of it but with a fish and wildlife degree back ground part of me says that why that are so healthy. But it hinders the fishing. 
A catch 22 
Back to things With the reward the back section of the lake is around an acre. It's infested, in the spring the water is 5 to 6 feet deep and the coontail by june is 5 to 6 feet I sprayed the gallon back there. It may have killed some but its so deep that it may have just killed the top layer. 
I have done research in the sonar and as you said it kills everything and I know that that's not what I want the aqua


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## wildman

Theres nothing worse than editing and typing a bunch of stuff and unable to save it and losing it all.

If you are in the area stop by the lake it's the lovland exit south of lake Isabella on the left. 8am to 6 pm though the week all night on weekends
You can drive around the lake so you would not have to get out. What about granules expensive will the aquathol reach 8 to 10 feet? will the grass carp rectify the problem 100 of them? if you want the blond girl at the lake can give you my # My name is Bill. 

I do appreciate your help. If the lake made money I would hire you for a side job or something. Free fishing passes!!!!!!! lol. I'm sure you have lots of places to fish.


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## Fishman

The only purpled flowered aquatic plant I can think of off the top of my head, with the exception of some tropical water lillies is Purple Loosestrife, an exotic marginal plant. You'll see this stuff in ponds, lakes, marshes, ditches, and even flower beds. Took this photo Saturday, with fall setting in, it's lost quite a bit of its color but this is pretty sterotypical loosestrife:










Glysophate kills this stuff no problem, if you want to protect cattails and a large percentage of other native plants you can use Renovate an aquatic herbacide that kills dicots but not monocots.

I suspect your gallon of Reward over an acre did the job, but unfourtantly more coontail just moved in to fill it's shoes from the untreated area. If I'm ever in the area, and not on the clock I might swing in. Just out of curiousity, seeing as your south of Isabella have you see that turkey vulture that hangs out around that side of town that has a white wing? I've seen him twice in the past few weeks... pretty cool!


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## Lewzer

> Lewzer, decided to take the digital camera with me to work today. 81 pictures in total.... put a nice dent in species but there are quite a few I'm missing. Give me a week to fill in all the blanks I possibly can. Heading to a party in a little bit, but it gives me a minute to show ya some "cool" pictures.


Excellent fishman!!!! I'll bet your plant thread will rival Fisher of Men trivia thread or the "Fired up the Airbrush" thread with two hundred gazillion views and replies.


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## Fishman

Problem is, there are a lot of different plants and I need to think of a way to catagorize them honestly. Might do it one day this week if I get time.


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## wildman

No, I haven't but I will keep an I out for him. Every Monday the vultures are at our lake to eat any cut bait or dead bait. It's nice because I hate picking up dead stinky fish or livers. I know what loose strife is I've planted it in land scape jobs years ago,But it's not that. The guy that sits in the office he's maybe 38 dark hair. He's Been at Jones for 12 years or so. That's what he identified it to be, is some sort of prime rose. Its in the LMR and in stonelick creek but the stuff will grow from a dept of 6 to 8 feet and then at surface it will grow 2 to 3 feet that's in the lake in the river it moving water it grows on the banks. Ill get some picks of the lake tomorrow.


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## Fishman

Man I'm drawing a blank, I have a feeling this is going to be something I'm just simply not thinking off  My last stab in the dark untill you post a picture:

Smart Weed:


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## wildman

The stuff along the edge is the primrose stuff and the coontail is overtaking the back side of the lake the dept is 4 - 6 feet in the back but the coontail in 8 -10 feet in the open areas

I don't know how to put pics on the page. Any help


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## wildman

Sorry I don't Know how to put pics on the page. Any help?


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## [email protected]

My preferred method to post pics is to use photobucket.com 

Go to www.photobucket.com and set up a free account. Click upload at the top of the screen to upload your photo(s). 

Once uploaded, highlight and copy the "IMG Code" below the picture then paste it in the body of your post on here. The image will appear after you submit your reply.

A tip: Hold down your Ctrl button and press and release the C key to copy highlighted text. Ctrl+V pastes.


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## Fishman

OGF host images as well if you're interested, fairly easy to do:

Click "Photo Gallery" at the top.
Click "Upload Photos" on the right of the OGF toolbar.
Browse your HD for the photo, select it, type in a comment about the picture and then upload it. 
Right click on the photo and copy the URL.


Finally when ya come to make a post, click on the picture of the "mountains" in your posting window and paste the URL there. Sounds difficult to a first timer, but it's pretty simple


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## wildman

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hopefully this shows up on the screen. This is some of the plants in the lake. this is the back section of the lake. It's 5 to 6 feet deep of All coontail. the banks are filled with the primrose. I did spray it as I stated earlier. It is spring feed. Also what about the bluing of the lake? 8.5 acres?


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## Fishman

Thanks for posting the pics!

Learned something by your post actually:

Looks like water willow the plant, not the tree. I really only ever see that near rivers but if I'm not mistaken your right along the LMR right? The plant is also called Primrose Willow... lots of common names out there for this bugger apparently since its really common, just not in you're typical midwestern pond/lake. This picture was taken at on Eagle Creek, a trib to the Ohio, and was growing in damp rocks all the way to a foot and a half deep;










In the top left of the picture is Black Willow, which is a tree.

Ironically enough, the day I was out taking pictures I actually photo graphed water willow at a pond and was kind of surprised to see it growing there. This same pond has a lot of other natives like rushs and sedges mainly because the pond owner has decided to keep the pond edge unmaintained for quite some time now. I opted to use the picture above though because there is just a helluva lot more plant to see 

Either way, the Aqua Pro/Cide-Kick should of waxed it 


That is a lot of coontail. Frankly there are only two means to go about getting that stuff under control and both are going to be very expensive as I mentioned before.


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## Fishman

You could dye it, but it's pretty amazing how well some plants live in the "shade." I'll ask around and get back with ya on it.


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## c. j. stone

I met with a fish biologist on a large lake the company I worked for owned and it was pretty much decimated by weeds. We stocked amurs and installed GAST areators which ran full time and in a couple years, the weed problem was not problematic anymore. When the amurs grow a little, they really eat all the time and prob. help the most. (I don't like chemicals). I have a small(one acre) pond and aerate it 24/7 yearround and still have maybe 4 of the original dozen amurs swimming in it-they are prob. 25-30 lbs now having been in there 10-12 years. When I started, I had weeds and algae-no more at present time-and it cleaned up in about 2 yrs.!


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