# QDMA...anyone a member??



## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

Quality Deer Management Association

http://www.qdma.org/



Anyone out there a member? We are working on getting a branch started in Knox county.

Anyone interested?

"Let them go so they can grow" 

PR


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Never heard of it until now. Looks like a good thing though. Good luck on getting it started.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

Dale, 

they are very active in the south. Pennsylvania has pretty much adopted QDM as their entire state management pholosophy. 

Also all in our hunting group are avid QDM practicing members. A great friend of mine has formed a 5 farm co-op with his property and adjoining properties managed under QDM. It has been under this program for i think 5 years now. The results have far from exceeded their expectations.

In a nut shell, their phylosopy encompases harvesting adiquate numbers of does, and holding off on young bucks, setting your buck harvest goal at 3.5 and up age class bucks. With a goal to get your buck to doe ratio back to the way nature intended. Unlike our heard today in many areas where QUANTITY has taken over vs QUALITITY.

PR


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Knox county?? That is my stomping grounds.

This is also the first time that I have heard about this program. I am interested in hearing more about it. I took a very brief glance at the seb site and it does seem to be a well established organization. I am interested in hearing how many property owners in the county get in to the program. The concepts all sound good and probably follow many hunter's current self-guidelines.

Have you been a member of QDMA prior to trying to start this branch?


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

Brian, 

I have been what you would call a "Practicing member" but have not "officially" joined up to this point. I have been getting heat from my hunting piers for several years, but for not other reason than not just getting it done have not offically joined.

Below is the link to my hunting groups web site. They are based out of Knox County, Mt. Vernon area. You migh have encountered their scent products(Pro Scent) in the area. Chris and I have been friends and hunting together since we were 5 years old. 

Their first DVD has been received with great results, and they are putting together their first Turkey video now. A great group of guys thats for sure. Eric Ashcraft is the friend that has been very succesfull in forming a co-opp in his area. 

Check out their "Trophy" section on their web site. The pictures/results of QDM speak for themselves!!!

I am sure you can pick up a copy of their DVD locally or off of the web site. It is very entertaining an very informative along the QDM lines.

Ps... if you get a chance to see it...no poking fun of the guy in the first hunt that misses a doe by a mile ..lol . A little "forgetting to put the aarow on the rest" there !! HAAA HAA.. I redemed myself moments later!

http://alloutdoorsproductions.com/

Regards, 

Keith


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for the link! I am familiar with Pro Scent but I don't personally know any of the guys. That is the first time I have seen their site.

I did not get to see your missed shot. The video is there to buy but I did not order it.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

No problem. Stop by the Rivers Edge, I think they have coppies  lol. I also think there is another store in Mt. Vernon..but not sure of the name.

Its pretty cool... something we have dreamed of doing since were were kids filming deer and turkey with our parents big tape cameras. The feedback has been very posotive for the first try.

It was privlidged to be a part of it!

PR


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## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

QDM is a semi popular topic in the state of Michigan with some area's that is the law no bucks under 4 pts on each side or something like that. The system has its pros and cons which make for interesting conversation up north. Stop in a shop and ask the question around the pot belly stove, then step back. 
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125299
Try that link which concerns QDMA up there if you would like.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I will have to stop in to River's Edge soon. I do so every now and then anyway. I grew up with Chris (the owner) so I just stop in to chat. I will see if Chris has a copy of the video.

There is another new outdoors shop right down on Main St. I was in there once so far. They seem okay but they are in a tough location and very cramped.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

Yea, my dad (old school..if its brown its down) and I go around and around about it all the time.

What most dont realize is there is "Room" for everyone. The long term benefits far outweigh the short term "Rewards" of harvesting young bucks.

Its human nature with any form of change to present the 100 negatives towards something rather than the 300 positive points. QDM takes some amount of insight to the future and what it will bring to EVERYONES hunting. A balanced natural deer herd, more mature bucks in your hunting area, more breeding activity..ect.

Many people can only see the short term..ie.. "I only have limited amount of time to hunt, if I see a buck, I am going to take it" What they dont see with this mentality is how it affects the big picture of the herd and eventually their hunting experience as a whole! 

I tell my father all the time that what does MOST every hunter dream of when they go afield?... Harvesting a nice buck! If hunters can show just a small amount of discipline this can be achieved by everyone on a regular basis.

QDM achieves management goals in terms of herd numbers by harvesting an adequate amount of does. Which in turn pleases the farmers and many others that see the growing deer population as "To large" 

With cooperation between land owners and efforts of hunters and sportsman alike, practicing QDM can make everyones days afield a more enjoyable experience.

PR


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

> I tell my father all the time that what does MOST every hunter dream of when they go afield?... Harvesting a nice buck! If hunters can show just a small amount of discipline this can be achieved by everyone on a regular basis.


 Therein lies the problem with the QDM crap, not every one cares! Some of you refuse to understand this. I set my standards far above what most people set, but I do it for my own reasons. I don't need some group telling me what I should and shouldn't shoot. I shoot what makes me happy, and that's all anyone should do. I've actually seen new hunters ridiculed because they shot a deer that didn't match up to someone elses standards. The vast majority of people don't have the first clue about deer habits and management. They just preach the simple parts of QDM that they understand; let small bucks walk and shoot does. All of a sudden they're an expert and anyone who waivers from these things is a poor hunter. Some of you just don't understand that hunting should be enjoyed, not judged by standards. I may ruffle some holier than thou feathers, but the QDMA is the worst thing that's ever happened to deer hunting. It was started with great intentions, but can only be as good as it's members. Unfortunately, a lot of it's members aren't helping a bit.


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

And some people don't understand that if you practice a little restraint (not necessarily you, but a collective you) that the deer herd will be healthier (proven by actual scientific research), your chance at harvesting a bigger animal are greater, an overall improvement in genetic quality will be noticed and realized and an overall improvement on the land management will be noticed and realized.

It's a good program. Like Pheasants, Quail Forever, Ducks Unlimited and the NTWF - they work at preserving the resources for the next generation. Not just numbers, but quality. Without programs like these, who knows what state of affairs the wildlife would turn into.

We've practice our own version of QDM where we hunt and it has made an impact. We made a conscious decision that would better our experience and better the resources. I feel it is a win-win situation.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

As I said I know very little about the QDMa so I can add very little to the picture about them. I briefly read their information on the web site and the concepts seem to maeke sense to those whose end goal is to have a trophy deer environment. However, I can see where Mike is coming from with everyone having their own view of how to hunt their land. For instance, my oldest boy is hunting this fall and it will be only his second season out. He hunted just a bit last year and he has not yet shot a buck. Although I have set my personal goal on a buck that is + 2.5 years old I will not do the same for him. Whatever he chooses to do will be fine with me. He may choose to pull the trigger on a smaller buck and that is okay with me. Or he may choose to hold out and that too will be fine. So I do think it is up to the property owners to have their own guidelines whatever it may be. It appears on the surface at least that this QDMA is designed to do this. However, based on M.Magis' comments I suspect that there may be more to it than that at least in some cases.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

As I said, it was started with great intentions. If it wasn't for the attitude that seems to go with it, it would be great. But, too many people think that there can be NO exceptions to the rules, and that's sad. New and young hunters should be encouraged to shoot whatever is legal, and to be happy with any kill. That's not happening as much these days. Self imposed limits are great, but they should NEVER be force upon someone else who has different standards that make them happy.


> Without programs like these, who knows what state of affairs the wildlife would turn into.


 You are WAY overstating the effects of QDM. That's part of the attitude I'm talking about. Too many people think of themselves as the holy savior of wildlife, when really all they're doing stroking their selfish egos. I'm not talking about you in particular, but I've seen it too many times. Some states do need QDM regulations to get the herd back to healthy populations, after years of poor management. Ohio is not one of them.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

"All of a sudden they're an expert and anyone who waivers from these things is a poor hunter."

I actually could not agree with you more!!! well said. I have basically felt the same way for quite some time. Everyone has their differing feeling and views of what a hunt or harvest means to them as an individual. As well as differing standards of "success" within a given hunting situation.

Wether peole can agree on a style of management, one thing we can all agree is management of SOME form or another MUST be used. Without it the rescorce we all go to the woods every year to hunt would be lost.

To go back to the above quote wether its hunting, work, cars,women... ect yes the world is full of people that love to demen one persons accopmplishment in order to make their accomplishment or more often, LACK of accomplishment feel better. For me(be it righ or wrong) to draw an analogy,thats one of the main reasons I dont attend church any more. I got tired of people judging. Anyway... thats a whole other discussion lol.

What I'm getting at is i have been privilidged to hunt several areas over the last few years that have been managed under the QDM phylosophy. To say the least..I have been impressed. The hunting has been amazing. Simply put..its FUN. And to me that is what hunting has always meant to me. Hunting these propeties has in a way taken my hunting to the NEXT LEVEL!! I feel more relaxed, there is no urgency to pull the trigger, no hurry to "fill my tag" All feeling that I previously had. The feeling of "If I dont shoot it the next guy will" is gone!!! The day i stop having fun, is the day I need to get out of the woods.

I also agree, QDM is not for every one. No matter what studies are shown, no matter what results are shown...some will never agree. And thats fine. 
Bottom line, wether you agree with the states management stratagie, or adopt one of your own, we all need to do what makes US as individuals happy.

PR


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

"Ohio is not one of them"

I by no means am an expert...and definetly do not fall into the "Ego stroking catagory" lol...and yes.. i know these people and the PISS me off beyond no means!! lol

But I do feel some counties in Ohio are "Ticking time bombs" just waiting to go off. REPET..some counties. 
For example... when the state is giving ONE farmer of aprox. 2-300 acres 80...yes 80 dammage permits (IN KNOX COUNTY I MIGHT ADD) to just WHACK deer and YES..LEAVE THEM LAY WASTED IN THE FIELD.... i would say something here is not working! And that is just ONE property owner. There are countless more!
That just chaps my hind end!

Meanwhile..they continue to RAISE our tag prices??? 

NO.. QDM is not the "Cure all" and yes i totally agree with the youth aspect you mentioned. One of the reasons I mentioned in one of my previous post that there is room for everyone!
Hey ..its great talking to you guys. I think Iron sharpens Iron. If we cant learn from each other..then why are we here? Post on this site have opened my eye to MANY new things I would have never tried or even given a thought in the past. Learing other points of views, Ideas to me is always a good thing.
Its when we start closing our minds is when we get in trouble. I tell my 6 yr old If your not learning and growing your going backwards.

PR


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

> and to be happy with any kill.


 To a point. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder - not a printed definition. With that being said it is our responsibility (I believe) as the mentors of these younger hunters to help them make what we believe to be the right decisions. If those are the right decisions for you and you are within your legal rights, then I guess that is your perogative. However, I will not pass those beliefs on to anyone that I mentor. 

I do not believe that myself or others on here are WAY overstating the effects of QDM (not the QDMA). I think that if everyone practices the belief (not saying that you do) that they can kill whatever they want - then the state of affairs in the woods and fields will soon deteriorate. Look what has happened in Penn. and in some parts of WV. They could only hope to have the deer herd that we are lucky to enjoy here in Ohio. That has a lot to do with the ODNR's efforts, but I think that we would all be foolish to not recognize that the hunters have had some part in that result as well.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

Pa..and wva..good examples.. look at southern us. they are taking steps as well....and Texas...wow..simply amazing!! Its a relegion down there!! lol

Great point!!!..agreed 100%

PR


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

"Self imposed limits are great, but they should NEVER be force upon someone else who has different standards that make them happy."

Im happy going 65 mph on state routs... What if everyone did "what made them HAPPY" on the freeway? 

sometimes what makes us happy is not necessairly what makes us healthy!!

just a though

PR


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

PS.. i drink way too much beer..and chew way to much copenhagen... it sure makes me happy NOW..but i can see how some day in the future if I dont quite..I will not be so HAPPY 

PR


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

> it is our responsibility (I believe) as the mentors of these younger hunters to help them make what we believe to be the right decisions.


 Does that include not allowing them to shoot a 4 pointer because it's not "big" enough? I certainly hope not. I know when I was a young boy, I was thrilled to kill any deer (still am). I would hope that continues for all kids, but it's not. To see someone's expression of being thrilled with taking a deer, turn to being embarrassed or ashamed because it's too small by someone else's definition is something I absolutely despise. That there is my problem with QDM and the QDMA. It's not the basis, it's the people. My standards are exactly what most of the QDM followers preach, probably higher than most. But I would never try to discourage anyone from taking any deer they would be happy with.
Also, I don't agree with every decision made by the ODNR, nor do I like some of the tags and regulations. But, to even mention them and PA in the same sentence is plain silly. PA nearly destroyed their herd because of horrible management, and now needs QDM to get it back to healthy. When it gets back, the antler restrictions should be ditched. As anyone with common sense should see, it's not needed if the seasons and tags are set properly.



> They could only hope to have the deer herd that we are lucky to enjoy here in Ohio. That has a lot to do with the ODNR's efforts, but I think that we would all be foolish to not recognize that the hunters have had some part in that result as well.


 I'm not going to call you a fool, but you sure have been fooled if they've convinced you to believe even one little bit of that. Ohio's deer herd has been healthy a lot longer than QDM has been around. And, the vast majority of hunters probably don't even know what it is, nor do they care. Most people just like to get out and enjoy some time in the woods, instead of worrying about taking a deer that meets your standards.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

"Does that include not allowing them to shoot a 4 pointer because it's not "big" enough? I certainly hope not"

No..that includeds me teaching my son not to shoot a 4 pointer because by not doing so it will better his hunting experience, and herd helth in the future. And that if he is patient, changes are he will get another opertunity that will really get his blood going.

meanwhile..son...see that doe that just came out.. let her have it..she will taste great on the grill later!!

Education, education! It has NOTHING to do with size of horns and making anyone feel "bad"

PR


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

UGGG...i cant even type any more !! lol.. sorry for all the mistakes.

time to hit the road guys!

great discussion! have a good night.

less that THREE WEEKS!!!

PR


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

> It has NOTHING to do with size of horns and making anyone feel "bad"


Unfortunately, to some people it does. I agree it shouldn't. I'm having a tough time seeing the correlation between speed limits and deer limits, so I'll skip that.  
Just to sum up my feelings on the QDMA, it's become 95% greed and ego, and 5% management. And where exactly does the membership money go to? Not saying it's not used properly, but I'm curious. I certainly hope it goes to better use the the DU example given earlier. That's the last sort of organization we need. Again, started with great intentions, but has gone the wrong direction.


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

QDMA has convinced me of nothing. I have convinced myself after researching, asking questions and seeing results first hand that QDM is a good thing. If it were my kid I would tell him to hold off on that 4 point and wait for something better and let that deer live another year, possibly growing his rack and his body weight. It's called restraint and discipline. It's all about education. 

You can do what you want.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Well I will, you don't have to worry about that. I do feel bad for kids today that have to grow up without being able to enjoy time in the woods as much as they should. But, I can rest easy knowing I'm not the one taking it away from them. If it makes you feel like a bigger man, have at it.


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

It makes me feel like a bigger man when they can enjoy getting out in the woods, enjoy the hunt - but do not necessarily have to KILL to have a good time. I never said they couldn't enjoy time in the woods. 

If and when I take kids out there are rules to abide by. They can shoot at a doe and they can shoot at a buck, but only within certain parameters. It is our job as the ADULTS to teach them restraint and good decision-making skills.

I still fail to see through the fog. Why is this not a good thing????????????


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

Here's my take on it. QDM works. Take does, don't shoot young bucks. Plant food plots, manage the woods for nutrition and cover. Leave sanctuary areas on your property for bedding-don't go in there. You need large tracts of land for qdm to work-the bigger the better. 
Don't know much about the qdma. 
I practice qdm, but this is my choice. I feel that if a buck is a trophy in the eyes of the hunter taking the shot, then that's all that matters. A deer has to be 130+ to be a trophy to me. Anything less will walk. But as a young bowhunter I took plenty of small bucks, and they were all trophys to me. My standards progressed with time to where they are now as my experience progressed. I see many young/new hunters take small bucks, and man they feel on top of the world. And that's what it's all about, that feeling of being high on the thrill of taking what is a trophy to you.


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## Hoss5355 (Apr 9, 2004)

I think that if a kid wants to shoot a 4 point as his first deer, what difference does it make. I have brought up my cousin hunting on our property as well as other propertys that I hunt. He hunted 3 years before he shot a buck. Do I shoot 4 pointers, 6 pointers,...heck no, but my first deer was a basket racked 8 point that I still have a skull mount of. Is it small, yeah it was tiny, but that deer will always have a special place in my memories. I've shot a couple small bucks, but then after I shot my first big buck, I have set high standards for myself. I think that it does need to be a personal decision, not something that is forced on you by other people. My cousins first buck last year was a 4 pointer. I have never seen a kid so excited over shooting a deer as he was because he finally shot a deer with antlers, after waiting 3 years for a good, clean shot at one.

I for one, am for younger hunters going out and shooting deer....then after 3 or 4 years, when they say...dad, I want to shoot a big buck, that's when you teach them about patience, and holding out for that big deer. You don't have to preach it into someones skull. It seems like most QDMA discussions are 100% follow our guidelines or you are wrong...which shouldn't be the case. Do they stand for good principles, yes some, but they need to realize that having young hunters is the only way have a future of hunters.

All the older hunters that hunt our ground do wait for big bucks, or if they are meat hunters, they shoot does. We run the 8 point outside the ears rules at our farms, for everyone that is a "seasoned hunter" Any young hunters, or new people to the sport, can go by the brown its down for their first deer, or until they are old enough to say..."I want that wall hanger this year" It really seems to work out well for us, and we havent had a shortage of seeing big bucks in the areas we hunt. Every year someone gets shots at 140 class deer and bigger.

Kevin


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I have no problem with my boy shooting a small buck if that is what he wants to do. What I am explaining to him is the understanding that he is only going to get one buck for the season and it is his choice which one that is. I suspect that his standards for what he will take will be rather low at first and he may end up shooting a smaller on ethe first year or two. But I also suspect that his standards will begin to go up just like mine did many years ago. Eventually he will be hunting for deer that would be trophies in most people's eyes. If he doesn't that is fine also. My job as an educator of the hunting is to make sure that he understands the difference between shooting a smaller buck and a doe as far as QDM is concerned. He may decide that the does are the proper thing to shoot unless it is a buck that is special in his eyes. That is the same as my view and I feel that the acorns rarely fall far from the tree. But like M.Magis stated, I will in no way discourage or scorn him no matter which choice he makes.


This has been a good discussion guys.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

Yes it has. 

My son is 6 and i take him with me quite often on hunts in the early season. We have many double stands hung on the properties we hunt. One in particualr is a great safe stand to take him along with me. Even though he cant take a bow, he loves to go. I guess even at age 6 he is and has already learned and is setting his "Standards".
We usually see quite a few year and a half bucks the first few hunts. I remember last year at age 5..the light was already coming on. This little 6pt came out in front of our stand farting around in the field. He walked away..i grunted once and he came stumbling back. As it exited the field i leaned down to him with this ornery grin on his face and said.."were going to let him go"..he said.."yea dad..he wasnt very smart was he" lol..it was pretty cute.

I guess, we all have our thoughts on the matter. Even at age 5 he can see, and is setting his standards. He enjoys HUNTING..being in the woods, watching the wildlife. He also realized that if we took that buck...we were done for the season...NO MORE HUNTING .unless its to fill a doe tag.
I think early season is a great opertunity to teach young hunters. He's been talking about this season for weeks!! 
He also understands that hunting is not about killing. Yes, our goal is to harvest somthing..but if we dont...all is not a LOSS!! We have enjoyed every minute just being out there in the woods and hunting.

Some may see this as arrogant, but I want him to always strive for the best in everything he does. Strive for what is HARD and not easy...set your goals high. If it takes you 5 years to achieve its better than copping out and taking the easy route. 
If your boss sets a sales goal of 1 million...strive for 2. If the coach wants 20 points from you this game...shoot for 30. Dont settle for a B..go the extra mile for an A. And be satisfied with the results knowing you gave it everything you had.

This takes us off to a whole other subject in childrearing but for me hunting and fishing and the outdoors is LIFE! I could not immagine what it would be like if I didnt have it. I thank my dad often for teaching me everything he knows. Hopeuflly I can pass that along as well, atempting to inprove on past generations. Always learning and growing.

PR


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

I still get a rush and a pounding heart out of letting an arrow fly on a doe. Hopefully I always will, or it will be time to quit hunting them.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

Hey Hoss 5355...we are neighbors along with M Magis.
I live between Cambridge and New Concord.

On my property, I ask that anyone who hunts must take a buck of 8 points or better and let the young ones go.
I also ask that if they are Doe hunting...do not shoot the button bucks!
I would bend these rules for a first time hunter or youngster.
I still remember the thrill of that first deer..a young doe.

Its funny the different phases you go through as a hunter. 
I started out...if it's brown,it's down.Stayed like that for many years and killed many deer.
Then I went to the just wait for a buck..any buck.
It didnt matter if it had 4 points...I was pumped.
Now,I usually take a doe for meat and sit back and enjoy the wonderful show that the rut provides and hold out for a good buck.

Owning you own hunting land does give you some options and control over the resident herd.
The best move I ever made was buying this land and putting a house on it a couple years ago.
So to some degree,I do practice quality deer management,but not to the point that it takes the fun and thrill out of the hunt.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

"I would bend these rules for a first time hunter or youngster."

If shooting a young buck gets them hooked and out from in front of the tv and the x-box..HE** YEA!! LOL 

a funny short story... My father was an avid grouse hunter when I was a boy. When I say Avid..I mean NUT CASE grouse hunter lol. I remember him marching me up and down the hills, through the snow in the grapevine tangles for what.. a split second flurry of wings and gone! Hell.. I hardly ever got my gun to my shoulder. I HATED IT..with a passion. But it was my dad, and I got to be with him. It took me years...years ...to get over haaa. It wasnt until i was well in my 20's was it untill I took a trip with some friends down to wayne national forest did i find a love for it.

If it takes getting a litte blood and some ivory in the hands of a youth to get them on fire..that is a great thing!!

PR


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## Hoss5355 (Apr 9, 2004)

Pure River, your son is very fortunate to be able to spend time with you hunting at that age, and I'm sure that his standards will be higher. Everyone will have a different situation when they start hunting for sure...for example...

Kids today can hunt in S.E. Ohio at ANY of the farms that I hunt at and I can tell you 99.9% of the time, I can get you a shot at a deer. When I started hunting 15 years ago, there weren't near as many deer where we hunted at. When my dad and buddies deer hunted in the early 80's they talk about doing drives and only seeing 1 or 2 deer in the 3 days they hunted...which in turn would discourage them from deer hunting...so they grouse hunted and rabbit hunted instead.

My dad never bow hunted, nor did we scout for deer season. We never stepped into the woods until opening morning, and waited for a deer to walk by. We talked year round about hunting, but never did anything until driving down to the farms we hunted the sunday before gun season, and maybe drove around the outside of the farm to see if we could see anything right before dark....

So fast forward to today and in the past 15 years I figure out that you have to scout year round, you plant food plots to aid in antler growth, you cut timber to have different growth of woods, you hang stands to hunt deer, you look for sheds in the late winter/early spring, you mark where scrapes and rubs are from year to year, you find travel routes as well as escape routes, you know what time the deer move to the fields, and where they are bedding. There is a whole lot more that goes into our hunting now than ever did when I was younger. It's a year round sport. And I hope that when I have kids they will understand that, but yet not get burnt out doing the work for that shot at a nice buck in the fall. 

Lewis, that's a good policy, and it seems that you have about the same idea is what we do. It makes for better hunting for the older guys, as well as the new guys we are introducing into the sport. I love teaching kids what a rub is, what a scrape is, where the deer are bedding, etc. It makes them atleast understand that there is a deeper meaning in hunting than going out, buying a gun and some slugs, and then shooting the first thing that moves on opening morning. 

Heck we have an old doe on our farm that we named Rosie because she is a large annoying deer. She will sniff out anyone it seems before you can get a shot on her and alert any other deer in Guernsey county that something isn't right. I think it is just her intuition that she has, but that's who I'm hunting after this year. She has been around for the last 2 years, and I still see her daily, but it won't be an easy feat for sure. I'm looking forward to opening day to let the games begin.


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## Pure river (Sep 12, 2005)

that was stupid...last time I post a pic in a what WAS a nice thread to read!! haaaaa sorry guys. i didnt know it would do that.

anyway..i was reading and getting ready so say..."Rosie must die" haaaaaaaa
then i read on 

Snotty does are good to get rid of. they add quite a bit of un-needed social stress in the herd. Not to mention pick you out and like you said.. and tell every deer in the county exactly where you are lol.

Ive even seen good bucks leave an area because of a crabby doe. They would move on to other areas for easier pickings. I guess i dont blame them. In my single days I didnt waste much time on the snotty ones either. Hot or not... they just make your life miseralbe and dont put out!! lmao!!

v


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## harjo02 (Jul 26, 2006)

Great thread, guys. I tripped across it and enjoyed reading the perspectives. Couple of notes:

1) "Snotty does are good to get rid of. they add quite a bit of un-needed social stress in the herd." --- I think this extends beyond deer and is also true of the human herd.

2) As far as deer management, everyone has personal preferences but a generalized management (at the DNR level) needs to balance doe harvests. So whether YOU specifically choose to or not, should be a personal decision. To manage the Ohio herd, however, the state needs to encourage harvests to balance the herd. I don't like point limits or earn a buck but there has to be some incentive in place to continue to encourage doe harvests. Right now, everyone likes to take a trophy, which is fine, but that still leaves 90% of the herd that needs to be managed. There's got to be some incentive to keep does. Free doe tag after a buck? Price of doe tag rebated to the hunter if the meat is donated? Extra 2 or 3 days of gun season for does only? Of the 400,000 (or whatever the number is each year) deer hunters in Ohio, how many actually fill all their available tags?

This is my first year bowhunting to anything that falls to my arrow will be a trophy for me. I fully intend on taking my 2 does and a buck. That's just me and I"ll probably change my style after I've drawn blood. At a larger level, I know that old does gotta go and little forks gotta grow.


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## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

Have you ever seen a snotty doe that has not had fawns yet, I think not.

Something about using the birth canal and what it changes in the female of the specie. 
We all know but can not say anything or the snotty doe in our life gets a bit edgy.
Kids will not believe it and old men know not to comment on this fact as it will get back through the herd to the snotty doe.


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