# Great Miami River Muskies



## riverfisherman1962

I recently caught 2 small muskies in the GMR north of Dayton. I also have seen one small one caught about 10 years ago. Is there some natural reproduction taking place? I have caught several northern pike in the same areas over the years. Here are some photos of the fish prior to releasing them back into the water.


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## big_b16

Those sure are strange markings. Maybe a hybrid of sorts. Usually the lighter background has some dark lines this one is the inverse of that.


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## midoh39

those are pike there markings our fading


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## H2O Mellon

im not an expert, but they sort of look like Tiger Muskie that we use to catch in Northern Minnesota.


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## Rooster

Whatever they are..........I hope that there are more of them and the get BIGGER!

I might just have to take the kayak to the upper GMR!


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## H2O Mellon

NO! We dont allow your type this far north! (Steelers Fans)


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## LittleMiamiJeff

Who, DEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice fish, if you allow Bengal's fans, I'll bring my yak up to the GMR, and help you all slay pike, muskie, ???

Jeff


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## Rooster

It's going to hard to find ANY Bengal's fans on Monday! However, I'm sure those pike/muskie would love a black & gold spinner!


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## LittleMiamiJeff

Rooster, you're supoda be meeting w/Creekwalker and me at EF this Sat. AM to catch Striper, what's with all this black and gold???  (we tried to invite you, game???) twin bridges ramp, 7AM, Sat. morning, hybrids, baby. bring the yak, not the Steelers YA YA.)
I think they like silver/chrome/pearl, but it being close to the end of Oct., bright ORANGE AND BLACK just might be the ticket.... yeah, that's the ticket.......


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## Pikemandu

It's a Tiger Muskie(pike muskie hybrid) kind of suppirsing I know there are pike there but didnt know muskie as well. I might have to give it a go sometime.


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## H2O Mellon

Sweet I was once for a change!


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## riverfisherman1962

Here is an additional photo of one of the muskie/pike that I caught. It does appear that it may be a hybrid fish which begs the question "How did it get there?". Can pike and muskie mate?I have heard that walleye and sauger can produce saugeye in the wild when both inhabit the same waters. Maybe I will email the photos to ODN and ask them. There are larger versions of the photos at my photo album. As an aside, it is hard to beat the GMR for river fishing. You never really know what might be on the other end of the line.


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## LittleMiamiJeff

Is that a Mepps spinner? Gold?
Never caught muskie or pike, are those teeth?  yikes!
Sauger closest thing I've caugt to looking like that, like pulling in a rocket ship, fight, but so slim they slip right in.
Have caught a couple of gar in the not so recent past, rather cut the line than try to unhook them.


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## getinjiggy

Ive picked up a few of those in the Troy area. I was told years ago they were stocked . Oh well, I can still head out and target them and the saugeyes. Glenn


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## midoh39

thats a hybrid


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## GMR_Guy

I'm not sure, but i'm thinking that may be a grass pickerel. I'll do some looking up and see what I can find.


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## GMR_Guy

Grass pickerel and northern pike are both found in the upper GMR as these maps will show:
Grass Pickerel distribution in Ohio
http://oh.water.usgs.gov/ohgap/fish_pdf/grass_pickerel.pdf
Northern Pike Distribution in Ohio:
http://oh.water.usgs.gov/ohgap/fish_pdf/northern_pike.pdf

Maybe it is a northern or maybe a grass pickerel/northern hybrid or maybe something else. I don't have much free time, but maybe somebody could forward these pics to the ODNR.

Regardless of what it is, it is a nice, unique catch.


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## angelus40

i'm a bengals fan nah black and orange spinner


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## Rooster

Where is a good place to put-in a kayak on the GMR north of Dayton?


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## riverfisherman1962

One of my favorite places to canoe is from the rt 41 bridge in Troy to the park in Tipp city (Tipp-Elizabeth rd I beleive). A lot of prime water,riffles, and really deep holes. Used to be a great place for saugeyes before they stopped stocking them in Troy. This stetch of water has lots of bass and an occasional pike. I have also heard that the stretch from rt 571 to Ross road is also very good. If you go let me know how you did. Good luck. :B


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## riverfisherman1962

I fowarded the pics of the muskie/pike/pickerel to the ODNR and am awaiting a reply.


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## Alter

That's definitely not a grass pike and it's not a muskie either. It certainly looks like a tiger muskie (northern/muskie hybrid). That's a strange catch. Tiger muskie do occur naturally in places where there are plenty ski's and northerns sharing the same water but in Ohio that's limited to a few areas in NE Ohio and one stream in Central Ohio. There are both pike and ski's in the GMR but I don't know of any muskie collected above Dayton in recent history. My guess is that someone, some place is stocking tiger muskie in a private body of water and they have worked their way into the GMR. Are there any fishing clubs near where you caught that fish? If you caught 2 tigers from the same area on the same day, someone is either stocking them nearby or you are one lucky SOB.... go by a lottery ticket tonight 

Steve


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## angelus40

up in northern mn they have tiger muskies


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## H2O Mellon

Rooster, 

Theres a decent place just outside Huber Heights, off of Little York & Rip Rap Raods, they even ahve a 3 car parkling lot for "Fishermen Only", even posted fishermen only. You park on Anglers Road. I've caught LOTS of Smallies in this area.


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## gulfvet

I got this from pg 24 of the Minnesota DNR fishing guide.

"NORTHERN PIKE and MUSKELLUNGE 

NORTHERN
PIKE LIGHT markings on DARK background


Rounded tail fins 


MUSKELLUNGE:
SPOTTED PHASE


DARK markings on LIGHT background Pointed tail fins "

For some reason the pictures didn't paste in with the text. If you want to see the whole thing go to: http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/staging/sara/access/fishingregs/2002_fishing.htm


These little guys seem to have rounded tail points and light markings on a dark background. They're Northerns.


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## H2O Mellon

Tiger Muskie

http://waterknowledge.colostate.edu/tigermus.htm

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/education/tigermuskie/tigermuskie.html

http://www.lake-link.com/anglers/fish/fishdetails.cfm?FishID=29

http://www.iowadnr.com/fish/iafish/tig-card.html


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## big_b16

That is just nasty, what kind of a muskie in its right mind would hole up with a northern. That sick SOB should be filleted. Find that fish's father and throw it up on the bank. lol.


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## riverfisherman1962

According to Doug Maloney Distric 5 Fish Management Supervisor it is a northern pike.Below I have copied and pasted his reply to my email. Certainly the fish has characteristics of a northern pike but previous northerns I have caught out of the river didn't have redish fins with dark spots. Seems to have some muskie traits to me but he is the expert. Perhaps I'll give him a call about it.


Mr. Belanich: Your email re. fish identification was forwarded to me. I work at Wildlife District 5 HQ which encompasses all of southwest Ohio. In the future, please feel free to call or send your questions to me.

Of the 3 pictures you sent, I have returned the one that best helps identify your fish. Please open that picture, and enlarge it so that you are looking only at the area from the fish's mouth back to the pectoral fin (the first fin immediately past the gill). This area is the best feature to use to separate northern pike from muskies.

Most fishermen use the term gill cover to describe the entire area from the eyeball back to where you would lift to take a peek at the gills. In fish anatomy, that area is comprised of two parts. About midway between the eyeball and the back edge of the gill cover, a crescent-shaped feature ( that almost has the same shape as the back edge of the gill cover) divides the entire "gill cover" into a front and back half. The front half is referred to as the preopercle (pronounced pree-o-perk'-al), or cheek. The back half is called the opercle, or gill cover. Next, draw an imaginary line from the center of the eyeball back to the center of the fish's side, effectively dividing both the cheek and the opercle into upper and lower halves. Now you are ready to successfully identify a pike from a muskie by examining the pattern of scales on the cheek vs. the opercle.

A northern pike has a fully scaled cheek (both upper and lower halves have scales) with an opercle that is scaleless on the lower half. On a muskellunge, both the cheek and the opercle are scaleless on the lower halves. By carefully examining you photo, I think you will agree with me that your fish has a fully scaled cheek and an opercle with no scales on the bottom. Therefore, I have identified your fish as a northern pike. You can see lots of photos of Ohio muskies at the Ohio Huskie Muskie Club website http://web.tusco.net/ohiohuskiemuskieclub/index.htm.

For future reference, another way to separate pike from muskies is to turn the fish over on its back and look at the underside of the lower jaw. Each lower jaw has a series of small holes called sensory pores. On a northern pike, there are usually fewer than 7 sensory pores on each lower jaw. A muskellunge usually has 7 - 11 sensory pores on each lower jaw.

In my 25+ years in District 5, I also have heard old reports of muskie catches from the Great Miami River, although I never saw any photos. It is possible that some of these fish were correctly identified as muskies. The Division of Wildlife Fish Stocking Database shows that Indian Lake was stocked with muskellunge fingerlings off and on from 1958 - 1980. It is quite possible that a few muskies went over the Indian Lake dam and down into the Great Miami. Also, we stocked tiger muskies (hybrid muskellunge X northern pike) in Lake Loramie from 1977 - 1980. It is possible for fish to leave Lake Loramie and travel down Loramie Creek to where it joins the Great Miami River above Piqua. (The Division of Wildlife discontinued all tiger muskie stockings in 1981 because research showed their survival was much lower than purebred muskies.) Grass pickerel are present in the Great Miami River watershed, but rarely reach 12- 14 inches. Our website has fish ID information at http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/Fishing/aquanotes-fishid/fishtips.htm.

In the last 15 years or so, all I've ever heard about is anglers taking northern pike from the Great Miami. Two fishermen who I know personally (one a former Division of Wildlife employee and another a long-time muskie angler) have both reported catching northern pike over the last 10 years from the river in the Sidney and Piqua areas. A few years ago, we collected a northern pike from the Great Miami at Tipp City during an electrofishing demonstration. Although I can't say where, it is apparent that northern pike are successfully reproducing somewhere in the upper Great Miami River watershed with enough regularity to maintain the population.

Please feel free to contact me by phone or email if you have any questions or if you want to discuss fish identification. Also, if you want to provide your mailing address, I could send you copies of selected pages from The Fishes of Ohio by Milton Trautman which include the identification features discussed above. . This is ultimate reference for Ohio fish identification used by all fish biologists.

Doug Maloney
Fish Management Supervisor, District 5
ODNR, Division of Wildlife
1076 Old Springfield Pike
Xenia, Ohio 45385
phone (937) 372-9261
FAX (937) 376-3011
[email protected]


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## H2O Mellon

I know Doug, as I have job shadowed him in school when I was thinking of working in that field. He is an expert no doubt. I personally think its a Tiger Muskie, which resembles a Pike more than a Muskie. I have caught MANY MANY MANY pure bred Pike in my life & would almost sware that this is a Tiger Muskie, but I would take DOugs knowledge overmy own.


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## Rooster

Anybody interested in floating the area described by H2O Mellon sometime next weekend? Shoot me a PM. Ive never parked in a Fishermen Only lot, and REALLY like the idea!


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## WINNER

I would, but you're a Steelers fan.  

Winner


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## obrien040362

where are the GRM boat ramps?


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## GMR_Guy

The ODNR guy gave you a great reply.


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## riverfisherman1962

As far as I can tell, the method used to identify my fish doesn't distinguish pike from tiger muskies. Pike and tigers are the same in these areas. All pike I have caught have light horizontal markings. Only muskie and tigers have dark vertical makings. My fish has light markings that are mostly vertical. Go figure? I am going to get a 2nd opinion.


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## big_b16

Throw it in your tank with the pickerel if you catch another one. Tiger's are sterile and you won't affect the reproduction. It'd be nice to see if the Tiger would light up the pickerel or let them lie in state just waiting for the moment of....CHOMP.


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## cincinnati

struck & eventually killed a hooked 29" fish. Friend/guide says that it was easily the largest musky of any flavor that he's ever seen. Saw the fish a 2nd time - same spot - when it hit a client's walleye & has never seen it again.


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## Master Angler

pike although that last pic is weird - stumpy tail section... still a pike though


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## Bryce Hodges

Are you guys using jigs tipped with a crawler for these saugeyes?


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## chris1162

Bryce Hodges said:


> Are you guys using jigs tipped with a crawler for these saugeyes?


 This thread is 12 years old so probably wont get a response.


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## fallen513

I love Ohio DNR.


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