# Big Head Carp in Maumee River



## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

In the Sunday Toledo Blade there was an article on Big head Carp DNA found in the Maumee River. The Maumee and the Walbash Rivers each have their headwaters out of the same swamp in Fort Wayne, IN, the Walbash is infested with those fish. a Fence was placed in the swamp to keep the carp out of the Maumee, I guess they forgot they start as mini minnows.


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## kprice (May 23, 2009)

Just because they found DNA in the Maumee does not necessarily mean that they're in the Maumee river, and have enough of a population to become relevant in the Maumee. Pretty sure the fence you're talking about is an electric fence, so mini minnows you're talking about would be dead mini minnows. I really hope that the Maumee does not get taken over with Asian carp, because the river is a great fishery.


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## rutnut245 (Jan 18, 2009)

Kyle, Weekender is spot on about the fence, it's a chain link. I've never personally seen it but have seen pictures. I had a discussion about this last year at Maumee tackle with Matt Markey. 
The water in the minnow tanks at a lot of area bait shops was tested for Asian carp DNA. It is believed that the DNA is present in the water that golden shiners are shipped to Ohio in from Arkansas where the Goldies come from. DNA was also found in Sandusky Bay and it's believed to come from fishermen dumping their unused bait into the water or at least that's what I was told.


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## kprice (May 23, 2009)

rutnut245 said:


> Kyle, Weekender is spot on about the fence, it's a chain link. I've never personally seen it but have seen pictures. I had a discussion about this last year at Maumee tackle with Matt Markey.
> The water in the minnow tanks at a lot of area bait shops was tested for Asian carp DNA. It is believed that the DNA is present in the water that golden shiners are shipped to Ohio in from Arkansas where the Goldies come from. DNA was also found in Sandusky Bay and it's believed to come from fishermen dumping their unused bait into the water or at least that's what I was told.


I was thinking of the electric fence keeping them out of the Chicago canal. My mistake. The DNA found could be from a number of different sources. I think that the states involved are definitely taking serious precautions to keeping these non native fish out of our waterways that are not infested presently. I have read a handful of articles over the years that cover Asian Carp and DNA findings. It seems that every article finds 1 DNA sample out of a couple hundred of samples. I'm no expert on Asian carp, but it seems that once these fish populate a waterway that it does not take long for them to completely infest and destroy a fishery. I guess only time will tell.


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## bountyhunter (Apr 28, 2004)

in the end guys it,s just a matter of time before you gotta take your catchers mitt fishing, and wear your motorcycle helmet at all times. an electric fence is a joke , poison the darn river. around my area power outages happen all yr long .so whats a fence gonna do ,


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## firelands (Oct 5, 2006)

It seems like the "powers that be" aren't interested enough to do what's REALLY necessary!

Once the horse is out of the barn it sure as **** isn't going to get put back in!

I've talked to Division of Wildlife people who didn't seem to even know what an AC is at a couple of area fairs. I've talked to Corp of Engineers people with similar results.

If they truly get established in Ohio waters it's GAME OVER! Once they get into Erie the whole state's waters aren't far behind!

How much revenue is at stake here? Surely enough to do something that will eliminate this threat!

If need be, CLOSE the Chicago shipping canal! Surely an alternative can be found!

If you read this and have some power in the necessary area PLEASE,PLEASE, do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rutnut245 (Jan 18, 2009)

To be honest, when I first heard of the fence across the swamp I thought it was a joke. Not that I have a better idea, of which I'm sure there are many. It just seemed like a very Homer Simpsonish response to a very serious situation.


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## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

It was a couple of years ago that the University of Notre Dame, South Bend, IN. One of the groups there were charged with building a barrier in the swamp. They engineered the item and installed it, I have to hope they figured in floods. Swamps are some tricky bodies of water with trickles here and there, changing quickly. The Wabash river is one that you have seen video of with boats speeding up and down it with the silver/bigheaded carp being netted, shot and all kinds of happenings.


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## jlieder (Jul 23, 2010)

I too fear that the AC will eventually decimate the Great lakes, esp. Lake Erie and the Maumee River. Many scientists believe that the Maumee provides perfect breeding grounds for the AC. We should clearly do all that is necessary to try and keep them out; but even then, all those efforts are likely to fail over time. The fish are already "outta the bag" so to speak, and we are unlikely to get things together enough to stop them in time. At least that's the way it looks to me. 

I also though, remeber the tremendous angst over the arrival of the Round Goby in the Lake. Lots of talk about decimated fisheries, etc..in the 80's, and the Goby's well known raiding of eggs of some of the most highlly prized gamefish in the lake. 

Well three decades later, the Goby has had some negatives effects, but is also largely responsible for the explosion in Small Mouth Bass in the big lake. Erie is now one of the top if not the top SMB fisheries in the world. They are literally feasting on all of those invasive Gobies. I've seen recent studies that indicate that the Goby has become the exclusive diet of some SMB populations in the lake. There is a similar (albeit older) story with the earlier invasion of the Lamprey and subsequent collapse of Lake Trout and White Fish populations that have since rebounded some with the efforts of science and management strategies.

I guess the take-away is that invasive species need to be addressed, and if possible stopped/limited. But, NOBODY including scientists can accurately predict what the eventual impact will be once they are here. We should take solace in that as the shrieks of an Asian Carp apocolypse grow louder.


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## SteelEyes (Jul 1, 2013)

Granted I've never walked/seen the whole thing, but my understanding is that the current control at Eagle Marsh is a berm with the fence on top of it. That said based upon the recent GLMRIS Study/Report and some news articles I believe they (more Indiana DNR than the Corp) are moving ahead with upgrading the barrier. They plan to rebuild the berm where needed. Cna't remember where I saw it but believe the intent is to build the berm up above the 100 year flood stage.

http://glmris.anl.gov/documents/docs/PressRelease_Updated_Eagle_Marsh_ANS_Controls_Report.pdf
Plus full report
http://glmris.anl.gov/documents/docs/interim/Eagle_Marsh_ANS_Controls_Report.pdf

All that said, if something isn't done about the Chicago Waterway system, then all other efforts are just delaying the inevitable.


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## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

I am out of town this week but in the Sunday Toledo Blade it had a teaser that in Todays paper Monday 8-26-13, there was going to be a article on the DNA of the Asian Carp and the maumee river. Just wondering if any one saw it.


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## fisherboy (Sep 17, 2012)

Nothing new except that they found some DNA (1 of the species) in the Maumee by the Martin Luther King Bridge (Cherry St. Bridge). Out of 125 or so samples.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

jlieder said:


> I too fear that the AC will eventually decimate the Great lakes, esp. Lake Erie and the Maumee River. Many scientists believe that the Maumee provides perfect breeding grounds for the AC. We should clearly do all that is necessary to try and keep them out; but even then, all those efforts are likely to fail over time. The fish are already "outta the bag" so to speak, and we are unlikely to get things together enough to stop them in time. At least that's the way it looks to me.
> 
> I also though, remeber the tremendous angst over the arrival of the Round Goby in the Lake. Lots of talk about decimated fisheries, etc..in the 80's, and the Goby's well known raiding of eggs of some of the most highlly prized gamefish in the lake.
> 
> ...



You should take a weekend trip to KY or Barkley Lakes. Drive an aluminum boat just below the speed it takes to get on plane. Or around any backwater bay. Once you get pegged in the head, and have your boat hammered with silver carp you might change your tune. 

These fish aint no joke-they will come, and they will completely choke out entire water systems. Maybe after they overpopulate and die off from starvation MAYBE they will 'stabilize' and become a part of the existing system; they are still relatively new though, so who knows......


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## jlieder (Jul 23, 2010)

You should take a weekend trip to KY or Barkley Lakes. Drive an aluminum boat just below the speed it takes to get on plane. Or around any backwater bay. Once you get pegged in the head, and have your boat hammered with silver carp you might change your tune. 

These fish aint no joke-they will come, and they will completely choke out entire water systems. Maybe after they overpopulate and die off from starvation MAYBE they will 'stabilize' and become a part of the existing system; they are still relatively new though, so who knows...... 
__________________


I appreciate the real concern...and i said as much in my post. My point is that noone knows what the impact will be when they hit the great lakes. The ecosystem in the lakes is unique, and it ain't like any river or any lake in Kentucky. The truth is no one knows what the eventual impact will be, but given the differences in eco-systems and the uniquness of the great lakes, I'll make a bet that the impact will be in many ways different than it is in some lake in kentucky.

Again, I share your concern and know that it is no joke.


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## Daveo76 (Apr 14, 2004)

We've been catching a few from the Ohio River, not the silvers that jump, but the Big Heads and they have a mouth the size of a skillet!! Here are a couple over 40 lbs and they just showed up.


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## PARK92 (Apr 21, 2012)

That's pictures a little scary. I work right on the Maumee river and talk to a lot of boaters and fisherman as well as fishing the river growing up. All of this is down river from perrysburg and haven't heard of anyone seeing or catching any. Does anyone know how they come up with the DNA to say these fish could possibly be present?


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## fisherboy (Sep 17, 2012)

Daveo76 said:


> We've been catching a few from the Ohio River, not the silvers that jump, but the Big Heads and they have a mouth the size of a skillet!! Here are a couple over 40 lbs and they just showed up.


Were they caught by hook & line normally or were they snaged or neted. As an aside a while back I read where there are some ways they could make it to Lake Erie from the Ohio River. Connecting rivers, creeks & some flooding on a couple of streams. Not totaly impossible. As another aside I read that the fish are tasty if cooked properly.


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

Daveo76 said:


> We've been catching a few from the Ohio River, not the silvers that jump, but the Big Heads and they have a mouth the size of a skillet!! Here are a couple over 40 lbs and they just showed up.


I've caught fish similar to these in the maumee, about 5 years ago. It was one of the first times I had been fishing after I moved to Toledo, and it was my first trip to providence dam. At the time, I didn't know anything about Asian carp so I just let it go. I just thought it was a very strange looking carp. I've seen them schooled up right below the dam quite a few times, and now always wonder if they're Asian carp or something else.


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## SteelEyes (Jul 1, 2013)

jlieder said:


> I also though, remeber the tremendous angst over the arrival of the Round Goby in the Lake. Lots of talk about decimated fisheries, etc..in the 80's, and the Goby's well known raiding of eggs of some of the most highlly prized gamefish in the lake.
> 
> Well three decades later, the Goby has had some negatives effects, but is also largely responsible for the explosion in Small Mouth Bass in the big lake. Erie is now one of the top if not the top SMB fisheries in the world. They are literally feasting on all of those invasive Gobies. I've seen recent studies that indicate that the Goby has become the exclusive diet of some SMB populations in the lake. There is a similar (albeit older) story with the earlier invasion of the Lamprey and subsequent collapse of Lake Trout and White Fish populations that have since rebounded some with the efforts of science and management strategies.


Think your understanding of the effects of gobys on smallmouth is incorrect. We fished for smallmouth in Lake Erie in the 80s before the gobys arrived, and it was a world class fishery then too. Data from the Great Lakes Fishery Commission (in 2003) shows the smallmouth population had been "stable" for the last 20 years. My understanding is that we've managed the impacts of the Gobys on smallmouth (actually all species of black bass) by changing fishing regulations so that you cannot keep smallmouth during the spawn / post-spawn season. That way the smallmouth can remain to protect their eggs from the goby's and the bass populations don't get decimated.
But as you infer not all the consequences of goby are negative, from that same GLFC report they note how goby consume nearshore zebra mussels, thus taking energy that had been locked up in mussel communities and getting it back into the greater lake erie food web.


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## fisherboy (Sep 17, 2012)

Jmsteele187 said:


> I've caught fish similar to these in the maumee, about 5 years ago. It was one of the first times I had been fishing after I moved to Toledo, and it was my first trip to providence dam. At the time, I didn't know anything about Asian carp so I just let it go. I just thought it was a very strange looking carp. I've seen them schooled up right below the dam quite a few times, and now always wonder if they're Asian carp or something else.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I"m sure you must be talking about a type of sucker known as a buffalo which gets rather lartge & is gray/


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## jlieder (Jul 23, 2010)

SteelEyes,

I just read the report you referenced and I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. You are right...SMB have stabilized largely due to regualtions that allow them to protect the nests. I could have sworn I did read something on how the Goby has become their prime source of food, but I cannot find it. While searching, I found another report that Lake Erie water snakes are also gorging on the Goby. Not sure if they have lots of fans though.

Anyway, thanks for the corrected info on the relationship between the Goby and the SMB in the big lake.


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## Daveo76 (Apr 14, 2004)

fisherboy said:


> Were they caught by hook & line normally or were they snaged or neted. As an aside a while back I read where there are some ways they could make it to Lake Erie from the Ohio River. Connecting rivers, creeks & some flooding on a couple of streams. Not totaly impossible. As another aside I read that the fish are tasty if cooked properly.


One was caught, in the mouth , on a 6" swimbait and the other on a 1 1/2 oz lead spoon. I saw them both. One of the guys who owns a baitshop took the one this year home and wildlife officers were at the top of the hill to take measurements. He said it really stunk to clean it but tasted like shark.


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## 419deerhunter (Mar 23, 2011)

Jmsteele187 said:


> I've caught fish similar to these in the maumee, about 5 years ago. It was one of the first times I had been fishing after I moved to Toledo, and it was my first trip to providence dam. At the time, I didn't know anything about Asian carp so I just let it go. I just thought it was a very strange looking carp. I've seen them schooled up right below the dam quite a few times, and now always wonder if they're Asian carp or something else.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


They are just Buffalo carp this fish came from the same area you are talking about


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

419deerhunter said:


> They are just Buffalo carp this fish came from the same area you are talking about


Yup, that's probably what it was. 
BTW, that's a nice old Oneida, I haven't seen one of those for quite some time.


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## 419deerhunter (Mar 23, 2011)

thanks they are awesome bows


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Big Mouth Buffalo look a lot like Asian carp. Easy way to tell, asians the eye is under the mouth and buffalo the eye is above the mouth.

Here is a Bigmouth Buffalo and a Black Buffalo (look more like a carp or a redhorse)


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