# Death of a stream



## pitdweller

I have sent time fishing the Little Muskinghum river since the 70s and have worked almost all of its length in two counties,mostly by canoe. This year out of 6 trips I have yet to catch a fish. This past weekend while working two different spots I ran into 7 different anglers, 2 who paddled 6 miles upstream to catch a 15 inch muskie, the others shared the same sentiment that they were skunked and something has happened to the stream.
In years past a typical outing included smallmouth,spotted,rock bass,sauger,drum ,catfish and muskie.
A #9 rapala was the go to bait for years until the muskie kept biting me off, the it was a rebel wee craw and inline spinners, with #5 muskie killers and large shad raps for muskies.
The locals attribute the lack of fish due to the reintroduction of river otters the muskie population and the overabundance of gar. A few years ago while landing a 38 inch muskie, some local farmers stopped the work in the field to watch and kept yelling kill that SOB, he will kill all the fish, it was released unharmed.
These all may be true, but the fact that the stream has been above flood stage 31 times since 4/1/2018 and 17 near flood stage with several other high water events cant be good on a fish spawn and population.
A few years ago someone on a dozer broke the dam on a pond containing "residual waste" at a well site that flowed down a run that goes to the Little Muskinghum river, not on a anti-fracking stand just a fact.
In 2014 an algae bloom was present in several of the longer pools, maybe agricultural runoff.
Whatever the factors effecting this stream ,if it is a cyclical thing and takes a decade to get back to normal I will be pushing 80 and doubt if carrying a canoe will be possible.
It could be the fact that I ran into that many people fishing the stream, with increased awareness, I used to go out and not see another angler.

R.I.P
Old Friend


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## Steelheader88

You have good observations. I deal with all of those aspects you mentioned as part of my daily job up here in NE Ohio. I do not care to go into the biology, composition of that residual wastewater, or nutrient loading/agricultural runoff but would like to say that it is the outdoors men and women who are the first to notice areas they frequent for pleasure or peace are being impacted by unnatural (pollution) and natural forces. Keep your eyes peeled and keep asking questions. I had intentions of canoeing the little Muskingum down near WNF, this changes those plans.


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## berkshirepresident

If Lake Erie can bounce back, so can that creek.


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## swone

I have only been down there once thirty years ago, but it was an excellent experience and fish were plentiful and healthy. I believe the post above mine is correct. The Cuyahoga was a vile cesspool and Lake Erie was a toxic mess when I was a child and last night my son and I went out and caught some amazing fish. I hope it recovers quickly and you are able to enjoy it again soon. I have had similar experiences with fisheries I enjoyed rapidly declining and it always makes me sad.


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## PJF

I understand your feelings about the Little Muskingum, personally I believe the high water conditions have impacted not only the LM, Duck Creek, and the Ohio River also. I have fished the same water since 1978 and the last 5 years or so the high water, sediment, turbidity, etc. have no doubt impacted the fishery. Lots more muskies in the Ohio than I have ever caught where did they come from???? Blown out of the LM, Middle Island Creek, etc. I don't know. What has happened to the sauger fishery in the Ohio. Where are the yellow perch coming from? Lots of questions but I don't know the factual answers.


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## BuckeyeFishinNut

PJF said:


> I understand your feelings about the Little Muskingum, personally I believe the high water conditions have impacted not only the LM, Duck Creek, and the Ohio River also. What has happened to the sauger fishery in the Ohio. Where are the yellow perch coming from? Lots of questions but I don't know the factual answers.


This has been my experience with most of the Southeast and Eastern Ohio creeks. I think all the flood event and near flood events has but a hurting on them. The river hasn't been very productive for a few years now. I used to be able to take a bucket of chubs below Pike Island in the spring and catch 5 or 6 different species of fish. I go down there now and I am lucky to keep the gar away.

I would love to know the answer about the sauger too. I used to have days catching 50+ sauger just throwing a Thunderstick jr. Today, a sauger seems to be a rare catch and I am mainly catching walleye. The walleye numbers are nowhere near the sauger numbers though.

Fished the Ohio River for 30 years and never caught a yellow perch until last year. Would love to know where they came from too. Doesn't seem like the population is that strong yet, but I have a feeling it will be, especially if we have a couple good years of bait hatches.


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## Carver

I was down around the Little Muskingum six or eight years ago and talked to a couple of farmers. They both said the otters were killing a lot of game fish. They take a couple of bites out of them and leave the rest lay. I am sure the other issues mentioned have hurt the stream also. Sunfish creek through Monroe county was once excellent for spots and smallmouths and now it is hard to catch a bass out of there. Captine Creek is also down. And fishing the mouths of these creeks in the river is not near as productive as in the past.


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## youngunner

When the pond of residual waste came through the Little Muskingum, the water in the creek downstream turned a sharp black and stayed that way for a number of weeks or months if I recall


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## Steelheader88

Would have been great if you had pictures! Nobody gets to know entirely what is in that fracking fluid, a law passed by an old friend of ours Dick Cheney, known as the Halliburton Loophole,,, known ingredients are diesel, benzene, chemicals that can melt rock etc...look it up...all guaranteed not to affect our surface or drinking waters because of the steel encasing it is on as it passes through well water bedrock...steel lasts forver huh?


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## TopRaider15

Steelheader88 said:


> Would have been great if you had pictures! Nobody gets to know entirely what is in that fracking fluid, a law passed by an old friend of ours Dick Cheney, known as the Halliburton Loophole,,, known ingredients are diesel, benzene, chemicals that can melt rock etc...look it up...all guaranteed not to affect our surface or drinking waters because of the steel encasing it is on as it passes through well water bedrock...steel lasts forver huh?


A little benzene never hurt nobody!

It's absolutely criminal what the industry gets away with, and we get to foot the bill for cleanup and health impacts. High water doesn't help the spawning, but anyone remember what happened to the Big Sandy in KY after a retention dam at a coal mine broke and sent all that crap into the creek. A once awesome fishery will never be the same


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## rickerd

It can be the same again. I know industry and agriculture can damage rivers. Try to find out the causes and stop the faucet of pollution. 

I just got back from Oil Creek in PA and to know what that creek is now, and has been since at least the 90s by my recollection. Compared to when the oil industry essentially left in the 60s, gives me hope for any river. I know we don't know how much time we have left to enjoy these places. My point is what was great can be again if we stop pollution and let nature take over again. I wonder if TU would help with a stream like this?

BTW acting like one political party does more harm than another will not help. The demicrats had 10 years to stop this problem and didn't so they are also to blame IMO.

Rickerd


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## berkshirepresident

The quickest way to derail environmental clean up is to politicize the matter. Both parties stink and both have plenty of blame to go around.
Rather than blame events of the past on who you think is responsible, there comes a point where you just resolve to fix the matter going forward.....b/c the past is the past.


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## pitdweller

When I started this thread the residual waste release was not a sticking point, just one of the variables that could have effected this fishery. I believe the constant flooding , change of habitat and increased popularity of this stream to be the main culprit.


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## rickerd

If the constant flooding is the main culprit, that would be best possible outcome. The fish are there, just need the flow to settle down and get back to normal. It will feel like a whole new river to explore. And maybe the struggles people have will keep the crowds down too. Hoping your glass is half full on this.
Rickerd


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## TopRaider15

I wasn't trying to politicize it, but it's wishful thinking that the toxins dumped into the water are having less of an impact than popularity and high water. The Little Miami River down in Cincinnati has experienced the same dramatic flood season, is more popular than ever and the fishing is still dynamite. 

My home river now, St. Louis River in MN is still home to several superfund sites, and sediment is constantly being capped because its insanely toxic. The river was a deadzone from 1900-1970s. Now its a great walleye, musky and sturgeon fishery. 

I suspect the situation will be similar in watershed's that have extensive fracking tacking place.


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## BuckeyeFishinNut

I fish a small creek in Eastern Ohio and something is definitely up. A couple years ago I was catching 20+ smallmouth a day doing a 1 mile wade. Moss was growing on a lot of rocks, tons of baitfish, and suckers everywhere. 

Last year all the moss died. It was a nice green and now its just brown and dead. When the water flows, it tears the dead moss off the rocks and makes it unfishable. I was down there the other day and there is very little new moss growing. On top of that, the bait population has gotten smaller and I am seeing almost no suckers anymore. Not surprisingly, the smallmouth fishing has been pour the last year and a half. 

Everything is covered in sediment. The bottom was mainly small to medium sized pebbles but now you kick up dirt everywhere. Maybe this has something to do with it, I don't know. I have walked a number of miles through various parts of this creek and the fishing is bad throughout now.


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## trekker

One loses credibility when suggesting the democrats share equal blame for enviromental problems with the Republicans. I hate both parties for various reasons but that is just stupidity.


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## Hatchetman

trekker said:


> One loses credibility when suggesting the democrats share equal blame for enviromental problems with the Republicans. I hate both parties for various reasons but that is just stupidity.




Other than showing your political bias, this post is over two years old....


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## Dipnet

pitdweller said:


> I have sent time fishing the Little Muskinghum river since the 70s and have worked almost all of its length in two counties,mostly by canoe. This year out of 6 trips I have yet to catch a fish. This past weekend while working two different spots I ran into 7 different anglers, 2 who paddled 6 miles upstream to catch a 15 inch muskie, the others shared the same sentiment that they were skunked and something has happened to the stream.
> In years past a typical outing included smallmouth,spotted,rock bass,sauger,drum ,catfish and muskie.
> A #9 rapala was the go to bait for years until the muskie kept biting me off, the it was a rebel wee craw and inline spinners, with #5 muskie killers and large shad raps for muskies.
> The locals attribute the lack of fish due to the reintroduction of river otters the muskie population and the overabundance of gar. A few years ago while landing a 38 inch muskie, some local farmers stopped the work in the field to watch and kept yelling kill that SOB, he will kill all the fish, it was released unharmed.
> These all may be true, but the fact that the stream has been above flood stage 31 times since 4/1/2018 and 17 near flood stage with several other high water events cant be good on a fish spawn and population.
> A few years ago someone on a dozer broke the dam on a pond containing "residual waste" at a well site that flowed down a run that goes to the Little Muskinghum river, not on a anti-fracking stand just a fact.
> In 2014 an algae bloom was present in several of the longer pools, maybe agricultural runoff.
> Whatever the factors effecting this stream ,if it is a cyclical thing and takes a decade to get back to normal I will be pushing 80 and doubt if carrying a canoe will be possible.
> It could be the fact that I ran into that many people fishing the stream, with increased awareness, I used to go out and not see another angler.
> 
> R.I.P
> Old Friend


Yes it is sad to see some water ways neglected and abused. I belong to a large fly fishing club in Ontario Canada and part of our duties and activities is stewardship to reabiltate these streams and teach younger people about conservation. without some of these programs our streams and creeks will dissapear or be let to waste. So everyone has to do their part.


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## MuskyHunter50

I’ve been fishing the little muskingum since I was a kid. I live close by and fish it almost weekly. The otters have hurt the stream. That said, the river still fishes excellent. Numbers are getting better, and the quality of fish is better now than I have seen in the last 10 years. The river changes every year due to high water. You just have to change with it to be consistent.


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## Bluegillin'

I am certainly not a biologist, and I know there are probably very good reasons not to do this, but part of me wonders why not introduce zebra mussels into bodies of water that are polluted. They seem to act as a natural filtration system. While some would argue otherwise, Lake Erie seems to have benefited from them.


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## pitdweller

MuskyHunter50 said:


> I’ve been fishing the little muskingum since I was a kid. I live close by and fish it almost weekly. The otters have hurt the stream. That said, the river still fishes excellent. Numbers are getting better, and the quality of fish is better now than I have seen in the last 10 years. The river changes every year due to high water. You just have to change with it to be consistent.


I hit some shallow holes for smallmouth last fall caught and released over 30 fish nothing giant but great action, encouraging.


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## joeluvs2fish1975

Bluegillin' said:


> I am certainly not a biologist, and I know there are probably very good reasons not to do this, but part of me wonders why not introduce zebra mussels into bodies of water that are polluted. They seem to act as a natural filtration system. While some would argue otherwise, Lake Erie seems to have benefited from them.


The zebra mussels definitely did help with cleaning up lake Erie but destroyed a lot of equipment in my old powerplant in eastlake. My local river (Tuscarawas) is full of freshwater mussels but they never seemed to help with cleaning it up. The Tusc used to be a lot deeper but has silted up the last 30 years. I don't know if this is affecting the smallie population but they're harder to come by on there now. Wish i knew the solution to all this.


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