# Are tournaments killing our fish?



## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

Please here me out.

I read on another forum that bass fishing tournys dirty secrete was that 80 percent of the fish brought to weigh in turn up dead in nearby coves within 2 days or tounys end..No matter how good the live well is that these fish later die from stress, from being hauled around all day.

This person suggest the same may very well be true with catfish, that no matter how good your keep alive system is, that these fish later die from stress from being hauled around in a boat all day...true or not I dont know.

So I ask you this, if this is possibly true, why could tournys not be run with an honor system..As soon as a fish is caught it is weighed, documented even photoed and quickly return to the water.

No live well needed, at the weigh in, weights are then added up from the documented weights taken in the boat..So no actual fish would be brought to the weigh in.

Would this work?? I know the first thing you will say is that people will cheat, but what if they dont cheat? Is it feasable?


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## catfish catchers (Apr 9, 2009)

i like that idea and i believe it can kill them


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

Below is part of that post.


You have these CPR enthusiasts, some I would call CPR reverands that haul fish around all day or all night long in a livewell in an attempt to make a buck off them.
Now how oxymoronic is that?
It took DECADES before BASS would come close to halfway admitting that livewells kill fish. Not right then but even days later. Just because it swims off doesn't mean it lives. There was a huge problem with these BASS tournaments. The dirty little secret. Bunches of dead fish showing up 2 coves down from the weigh in the following day or two. It was common.


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## truck (Apr 12, 2004)

I say sure some will die,but not at the rate that bass do.cats are allot tougher!!!!


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

flathunter said:


> So I ask you this, if this is possibly true, why could tournys not be run with an honor system..As soon as a fish is caught it is weighed, documented even photoed and quickly return to the water.


key word is...."Competition". 
some compete for fun, but i beleive most compete to inflate an "Ego", to place themselves "on a pedestal", or fullfillng a desire to "gamble".

those above reasons bring out some of the worst in human nature. you see it all the time in sports from the professionals all the way down to the parents at pee-wee football games. that being said, there have to be safeguards in place to keep folks honest. 

btw, i am not defending tournaments and their rules, just expressing how i feel that an "honor system" will NEVER work so long there is a desire to "Win", especially if money is involved.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

A new Pro Walleye tourney trail institutes this new CPR system, they just had there first tourney in May, check it out here, works on the Pro scale but for smaller circuits, they flat out would not be able to afford it and these guys have Co-Anglers in the boat to keep the Pro honost, the only way it would work for smaller circuits would be to have observers in the boat with them, observers are the norm in big salmon tourney's, but they have very large boats and room for another 'extra" just to keep the 4 man crew honost, some out of state walleye tourney's do this as well. Ohio doesn't have anything like this going on as of yet, probably due to cost and low cost tourney's. 

To read up on how the CPR system works for AIM check it out below, they got some neat systems going on but not alot of the walleye tourney world is into it or buying it. 

http://www.aimfishing.com/


To dink buster below, some of your reasons of why some guys fish tourney's maybe true but believe myself being a tourney angler myself, only a handful of guys carry those traits and those guys shouldn't be fishing and those guys ruin it for the guys who do it for the right and fun reasons. unfortuate those dudes do exist.


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## kmb411 (Feb 24, 2005)

Flathunter- That arguement has been going on as long as there have been tournements. There have been so many studies and opinions, it is hard to know what to believe. InFisherman had an article about "fizzing" fish. I was near Lake Fork, Texas at the time and suddenly every bait shop had needles for sale. 

Boat anglers complain about bank fishers, BlueGill guys gripe about cat fishermen using panfish for bait. All anglers gripe about jetski's. It's an agruement that can not be won. Studies can go both ways. 

BTW- some tree hugger was complaining about the last golf tournement, something about people walking on the grass....

Me, I do some CPR, some RTTG.

Release To The Grease.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

without delving into the pros/cons of tourney fishing,i will say i find that dirty little secret very hard to buy.i think all can agree there is no doubt that a percentage of fish die directly or indirectly from the effects of tourneys.but 80% to me,is an ubelievable number,and i doubt anyone has any substantial proof to back up that statement.that is an extremely high number which would result in seriously reducing fish pops over time.i think the numbers of fish caught on a regular basis on many waters,actually shoots the theory full of holes.
many lakes see a lot of tourney action.in some cases,several a week.considering those figures,there would be as many as several hundered dead fish floating around on some lakes at any one time.that would definitely draw the attention of other anglers,and it would definitely not be a "dirty little secret" for long.


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## BassMan300 (Mar 4, 2009)

well just my 2 cents but i know back when i had the lake behind my house we would go fishing catch legal fish and take them home for my pond i never saw a dead bass from being in the livewell all day then the truck ride home. we may have lost 2 bass in a 10 year period of doing this with ponds around the area


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

there are lots of studies and I am willing to bet that at some point there was one tourny that had that many fish mortalities. I also am willing to bet that they where catching fish out of deep water and it was 100 degrees outside and the surface temp was way up.
I dont think that tournies are killing fish. most responsible anglers know how to handle thier fish in a manner that is the least invasive to the fish. as long as there are not extreme conditions it shouldnt be a problem. but I do think that there are times when the anglers should go ahead and leave the fish alone tournies or not. basically if the surface temp is ninty, and you drag a blue out of a 55ft deep hole and drag it around for a few hours, take 30 pictures of it, your going to kill it. if thats the situation, land it fast take 5 pics and release it. 
getting to the catch and release tourny. I think that especially in club tournies that is a great idea. dont even wiegh fish, take a length and girth, and have a mandatory picture of each fish. at the end of the tourny add up the estimated wieghts for the winner. I would think that we can trust other anglers enough to do that.


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## ducky152000 (Jul 20, 2005)

we dont keep our cats in livewells we tie em up and weve caught 2 this year with holes in there bottom lip from the stringer and they looked great and healthy i would say for flatheads and channels less than 1 % would die from the truck ride to the tourney and handling them a buch, but i dont know. Catfish can stay out of the water alot longer than a bass and dont need as much oxegon as bass do. most of us guys has 55 gallon drums in the back of our truck to take em to weigh in at saltfork outdoors and when we get there from the lake there lively.


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## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

I'd say that a catch and release tournament would work only in an age when we don't need police officers either. Wouldn't that be nice.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

I've been fishing and running Bass tournaments or almost 30 years, and who ever came up with that 80% figure is out of their tree. We lose very few if any bass in a tournament. The one that do die are from being hooked deep in most cases. We also make a point to give these to someone that is fishing close by or someone in the tournament that will take them home to eat. 
The problem may be that whom ever fishing that tournament they talked about didn't have operating live well. 
Sounds like a peta site to me, or at least someone that is pro peta. Come out to any of our tournaments and you'll see for yourself. I'm sure the same is true for cat tournaments.


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

i have to agree with the guy that said catfish seem to be alot tougher and alot more less likely to die then a bass..........i know at our catfish tournaments that i fish in that out of 50 fish turned in we MIGHT have one dead fish brought back to the scales and that is a very rough estimate id say its alot less then that.............do some fish swim a way and die later ?? im sure that a FEW do but theres no way that it is a 80% mortality rate even at bass tournaments if that were the case the fishing would suffer greatly at lakes that hold multiple tournaments on a weekly basis............i know the MWCD schedule for tournaments is PACKED with tournaments on a weekly basis and i think the fishing is as good as it ever was for bass and catfish .............i attended a tuesday night bass tournament at Tappan and watched the weigh ins there and saw alot of BIG fish weighed in and ALL of them seemed to be in great shape..........if there is a problem with fish being killed and wasted that i have seen is these idiots that catch a 30 lb + flattie or 5 lb + bass and haul it around in there trunk or truck bed (with no live well or areator or even water on them) showing it off to as many people as they can and taking then clear back home to get pictures and not giving a crap if the fish dies or not ..........that i see as a bigger problem then tournament anglers who do everything in their power to assure that their fish is turned back in as healthy as possible..............as far as running tournaments on a trust system where pictures are taken and the fish are immediately released that will NEVER work..........when there is money and prizes on the line SOME PEOPLE will do ANYTHING to win ...........and SOME PEOPLE wont/dont trust anyone no matter what because they dont like losing and not making money........it is sad but true !!!


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

In short..... No, no way. I don't beleive there are any tournament series of any kind of fish has an 80% mortality rate. 

Let's think about it.... what's the difference in keeping the fish in a very good livewell versus catching and releasing them? Those who tourney fish, wheter it's bass or cats are spending lots and lots of money on great filteration systems. They do this becasue their tournament results rely on good healthy fish. 

Whoever came up with the particular study is a moron. I can debunk this theory a bit. I've at times have had dozens of fish caught and kept in livewells for a day (or more), be it in my boat or truck. I then take those fish (Bullheads, Small Channels, Bluegills, Rockbass, Chubs, Suckers...etc) and put them in my outside tank. The only ones that get killed are the ones that jump out or like Dale said are hooked deep and would have died anyways.

In my opinon a good tourney fisherman will kill 0% more fish than the same quality catch and release fisherman. Of corse there will be those few tourney guys who will try to keep 4-6 fisg in a 20 gallon tub all day, but there are also the "catch and release" guys who will leave fish on the banks for several minutes at a time in 100 degree weather or the guys who will stringer cats, bass, etc all day and them turn them loose, only to see them die.

Bottom line..... wheter your a tournament fisherman, a CPR guy or a meathunter, whatever you do, *Do It Responsibily*.

I've decided to not fish tourneys this year, but I would never fish a tournament where money/prizes were on the line based on the honor system. I trust myself, but not many others and I'm sure in a tournament setting that is echoed by the majority.


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## fishdealer04 (Aug 27, 2006)

I do belive that some fish do die during tournaments. However as everyone else had said 80% of the fish die is a rediculous number. The sport of bass fishing is growing and continuing to get larger. If 80% of those fish really did die a lot of people would be turned off from the sport. I dont think anymore fish die from this than the normal weekend angler would kill. A deeply hooked fish might survive and it might not. A fish being toted around in a properly aerated livewell is not going to die more than likely unless it was already going to die.

I agree with Mellon. I keep fish alive for weeks in my bait tank in my garage. I catch them, transport them in my car in a 5 gallon bucket and put them in the tank for weeks, until I use them. The only fish I loose are the damn chubs that seem to enjoy jumping out, as I have not yet built a lid for it.

Honor system, as though it sounds good, probably would not work, ecspecially in large scale situations. I know on ESPN they air the shark fishing tournaments where the fish are caught, measured against the boat and released and you get points based on species and size and if its the first fish of the day and if you get the hook out. This system works, but there is also a camera guy in each boat.


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

as long as you keep "Cats" in good cool areated water i honestly dont think they will suffer. i know of countless trips in my younger days to pay ponds catching blues, flats, and channels, then transporting them OUT OF WATER (even dragged through the grass and gravel) for sometimes 45min or more, in 90 degree heat to private ponds/lakes where some are still alive today. after reviving them at the bank we never seen one come up dead later.


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## BassMan300 (Mar 4, 2009)

use to catch big cats out of the river and rap them in a wet towel and they would live the hour and a half drive to the house pond cats can live as long as there body say moist.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

How have the new flathead laws effected tournment fishing? I can only assume you can only turn in one 35"+ flathead per person per team in tourneys right?


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Here's some of what we do for our events bass wise.

http://www.dobass.com/live/together.html

Small clubs can easily get away with an honor system IMHO. 

Large events,no way. As well, and as mentioned, it also detracts from the fanfare and entire egotisical gloating fact to stand on stage with big fish dangling to your elbows 

Post event mortality is the bass problem. Also- most studies indicate the mortality is out of sight- often leaving folks who really THINK they are doing the right things ("what the heck we never see 'em float") to keep on doing it! AND it's often SIMPLE preventable things.

The way I see cats mostly handled, I wouldn't be surprised to see research eventually arise indicating similar post event mortality problems...if handling issues are not corrected.

The biggest problem I see with most bassn' events is lack of appreciation for *OXYGEN*!!! Fish held in well treated bags coming to scales only have about 2-3 minutes of good O2 without further treatment ...AKA...organizationaly designed COOLED-treated and *HIGHLY RECIRCULATED* large holding tanks for all anglers planned in line.

We have it set up so that most any organizational variables concerning STRESS and OXYGEN are taken care of from the time the anglers enter our lines to release.

What they do with them up to that point well...admittingly, despite a strong C&R ethic, the majority as a whole is simply not there. There was a GREAT article in BASS Times about angler perception with this topic...sad part, many bassers even in the know...professionals, simply weren't meeting the levels of care needed throughout the day.

I will say for the events we have run at lado particularly for the last 9 years, we trained and stuck into the heads of our anglers ALL the important handling techniques to REDUCE STRESS and INCREASE OXYGEN. I remain quite impressed with this groups overall bags at the scales- always treated, always temperature controlled, frequent water changes, constant areation, cull systems used, just smart kinda stuff...our DEAD FISH DQ rule plays a significant factor in the learning curve! I can't always say the same for the big boat fellas despite the stringent 1lb penalty we stand by at those events.

Checkout the info we have posted above, maybe catfish aren't far behind.

Water is warming--- it's prime time for ALL of us to pay attention to our practices.

nip


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

Just wanted to add that I am not against tournys, just asking you guys a question on what you thought.


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## Catman63 (Aug 25, 2008)

As far as the Cats go they're much hardier than just about any other freshwater fish.They can withstand much higher water temps and much lower oxygen levels for longer periods than other fish. Like the other guys who've commented ,there's no way i'm buying an 80 percent mortality rate for ANY species in a tournament situation other than perhaps a Carp bowfishing tourney. I do however think that larger/older fish are alot more susceptible to stress than smaller/younger fish of nearly any species. And often that stress is compounded by the harder & longer fights that these fish can put up before they're boated. I also tend to believe that in particular most "serious" tournament fishermen are inherently more inclined to take the best care of their fish that they can. It's certainly in their best interests to do so as they can't win ANYTHING with a dead fish. I'd guess that the less formal/reputable tourneys (with fewer tourney "regulars") would have much higher rates of mortality, due to a higher percentage of anglers fishing those tourneys being less knowledgable about good techniques to minimize the stress on the fish. There's a huge difference between reputable tournament clubs/circuits and fly-by-night fishoffs that are run just to make a few bucks.


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## Catman63 (Aug 25, 2008)

I'm also alot less concerned about "tournament" fishing and fishermen than i am about the general everyday fishing pressure and practices that alot of occasional anglers can potentially wreak. A small group of clueless & careless fishermen can probably do as much or more damage to a fishery than a slew of tourney boaters and bankfishers.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

Catman63 said:


> I'm also alot less concerned about "tournament" fishing and fishermen than i am about the general everyday fishing pressure and practices that alot of occasional anglers can potentially wreak. A small group of clueless & careless fishermen can probably do as much or more damage to a fishery than a slew of tourney boaters and bankfishers.


Great post, I agree.


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## ncraft150 (Apr 5, 2004)

Many clubs do what is called "paper tournys". The guy in the back of the boat you are fishing against so it keeps you honest. He records your weight for you and you record his weight. Other advantages to this are that you can fish a 15" limit lake and still count 12" fish if your club so desires. The problem with the tourny trails is they are team events. The problem with pro tournys is as Nip said. Without those big fish dangling infront of everyone at the weigh in they would lose alot of interest as well as sponsors. I have never been to a tourny where there is more than a couple dead fish if any. Ask any tourny director. They record the info. There was one instance up at the Black River on Erie a while back where there WAS significant fish kill however. Guys where pulling fish out of deep water before the whole idea of letting the air out of their swim bladders was heard of. It was a nasty site.


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## leovpin (Mar 18, 2009)

Here is a nice article on the subject.

http://www.acuteangling.com/Reference/C&RMortality.html


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## fishdealer04 (Aug 27, 2006)

Catman63 said:


> I'm also alot less concerned about "tournament" fishing and fishermen than i am about the general everyday fishing pressure and practices that alot of occasional anglers can potentially wreak. A small group of clueless & careless fishermen can probably do as much or more damage to a fishery than a slew of tourney boaters and bankfishers.


I agree as well. Not to say that all tournament fisherman will handle fish better, but it normally seems that the people fishing tournaments tend to be more serious about fishing and also care more about the fish, thus taking the time and measures to help keep those fish alive and healthy.


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## firstflight111 (May 22, 2008)

flathunter said:


> Please here me out.
> 
> I read on another forum that bass fishing tournys dirty secrete was that 80 percent of the fish brought to weigh in turn up dead in nearby coves within 2 days or tounys end..No matter how good the live well is that these fish later die from stress, from being hauled around all day.
> 
> ...


thats because guys dont know how to take care of there fish.. keep water cool.. use a catch and release.. we freeze a 2 liter bottle with catch and release.. and put in livewell keep them going ..


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## AkronCATS (Nov 5, 2008)

I believe I do a great job of keeping fish very lively thoughout the night at Catfishing tournaments. Matter of fact when I go to weigh my fish in the morning, I usually get a few laughs fromt the gallery because I have a hard time catching my fish out of the livewell to put them on the scale. I always try to have a clean shirt to wear to weigh in to look sharp for pictures, but I usually end up soaking wet from the fish thrashing around like it's on CRACK trying to avoid gettin picked up. I don't mind sharing how I make this happen. I change the water in my livewell at least every 2 hours. I use a bildge pump to pump in and out the water. I also have an airator that runs all night long. I believe that the fish are much more lively at weigh in than when they are first boated and probably more lively than even before they bite the bait. I have wondered if this could somehow put the fish into shock when they are released and don't have oxyegen being pumped into the water at the same rate.


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