# Problems with a heavy fly



## Wrecks (Jan 30, 2013)

I've been dabbling with fly fishing for a few years, and feel fairly competent casting. I've got a 6/7 weight 9" fly rod. I've practiced a lot this spring and can cast an empty line 60 feet without problems. I'd really like to fish exclusively with the fly rod this year. I fish in the Scioto River for smallmouth (but I'm really hoping to catch a pike with every cast), so I need to throw some pretty big flies.

Today, I tried to take my new skills to the river, and put a 4" rabbit strip streamer on my line, and I could barely get the dang thing out of the water. When I did, the line wouldn't lift on the back cast, and when it hit the end of the back cast, instead of loading the rod, it was like it hit a wall and dropped straight down, back into the water.

What do I need to do to learn to cast bigger flies? I'm guessing I need a much stronger rod.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

the bigger the fly, the shorter the leader has to be is one issue, not uncommon for me to throw big flies on a 18-24" leader so I can turn them over, the second issue is that a huge wet heavy fly like that has a lot of resistance being pulled out of the water so best to strip in and work out the cast or slowly lift fly to surface then speed up the pickup from there. I hope that makes sense, first part of picking up the line is doing so on a tight line, then slowly lift to pull fly to the surface, then in one motion, lift fly up and back fo rthe back cast. Lasly the rod may need to be a faster model with a not as limber tip. an old fiberglass rod would not be a good streamer rod for the most part, there are exceptions but generally a faster rod will help move these big heavy flies. 

Salmonid


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## Wrecks (Jan 30, 2013)

Salmonid said:


> the bigger the fly, the shorter the leader has to be is one issue, not uncommon for me to throw big flies on a 18-24" leader so I can turn them over, the second issue is that a huge wet heavy fly like that has a lot of resistance being pulled out of the water so best to strip in and work out the cast or slowly lift fly to surface then speed up the pickup from there. I hope that makes sense, first part of picking up the line is doing so on a tight line, then slowly lift to pull fly to the surface, then in one motion, lift fly up and back fo rthe back cast. Lasly the rod may need to be a faster model with a not as limber tip. an old fiberglass rod would not be a good streamer rod for the most part, there are exceptions but generally a faster rod will help move these big heavy flies.
> 
> Salmonid


Mark,

So my 9" leader is the first thing I need to change? The rest of your suggestions make sense to me, but now that you mentioned the leader, I can see how it may be my primary fault. What size rod would you recommend for these wet heavy flies.


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## Flymaker (Jan 24, 2013)

Something else to consider....Try a sink tip line ....I do all my streamer fishing with a sink tip line and a short 4-5ft leader......I only add enought weight to my fly's to cancel any of there natural boyancy....rabbit fur tends to float till it get wet....try a small set of dumbell eyes or a smaller size cone head.....also instead of rabbit strip flys try some big deciever patterns......I ty them up to 5-6 inches long and they cast very easily ...and yes your 9ft leader is waaaay to long for the task at hand...back it down to 6ft max.....another reason to consider a sink tip ...you don need a long leader to get the depth you need or want.....I dont know what rod your using but as the above post mentioned faster action rods tend to be better for big heavy flys.....But I fish medium to medium fast rods and have no issues....I recommend a Jim Teeny 5 ft sink tip and a 4-5ft leader....then you can use minimal weighted flys to get what you want.....I have one rod thats rated 6/7 and I fish a 6wt Jim Teeny line on it with no trouble....have fun.....pike in the scioto...???? another thing to look at .....if you ty your own fly's look into the synthetic materials....then tend to shed water on the cast ....craft fur, near hair, angel hair ...just to name a few.......and if your only fishing smallies(pike) consider a 8wt get a reel with a extra spool....one for a floater and one for a sink tip......


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## Wrecks (Jan 30, 2013)

Flymaker said:


> Something else to consider....Try a sink tip line ....I do all my streamer fishing with a sink tip line and a short 4-5ft leader......I only add enought weight to my fly's to cancel any of there natural boyancy....rabbit fur tends to float till it get wet....try a small set of dumbell eyes or a smaller size cone head.....also instead of rabbit strip flys try some big deciever patterns......I ty them up to 5-6 inches long and they cast very easily ...and yes your 9ft leader is waaaay to long for the task at hand...back it down to 6ft max.....another reason to consider a sink tip ...you don need a long leader to get the depth you need or want.....I dont know what rod your using but as the above post mentioned faster action rods tend to be better for big heavy flys.....But I fish medium to medium fast rods and have no issues....I recommend a Jim Teeny 5 ft sink tip and a 4-5ft leader....then you can use minimal weighted flys to get what you want.....I have one rod thats rated 6/7 and I fish a 6wt Jim Teeny line on it with no trouble....have fun.....pike in the scioto...???? another thing to look at .....if you ty your own fly's look into the synthetic materials....then tend to shed water on the cast ....craft fur, near hair, angel hair ...just to name a few.......and if your only fishing smallies(pike) consider a 8wt get a reel with a extra spool....one for a floater and one for a sink tip......


I want to catch this on my fly rod.










Thanks, guys. I'm stoked. I shortened my leader and practiced a little. Way better. That is, I think, a big step forward, and this weekend I'll work on your other suggestions. The Scioto where I fish is very shallow, never more than 3 or 4 feet deep when it's not too muddy, so I don't think I'll need the sinking line, but the lighter big flies I'll definitely try. And, I'll start saving for an 8 weight.


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## Wrecks (Jan 30, 2013)

Well, I tried to include an image of a Scioto pike, but it didn't show up. They're in there, though.


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## Flymaker (Jan 24, 2013)

sink tips are perfect for that depth of moveing water.....once the line sinks it helps keep the fly at the depth you want instead of comeing up with every strip....but you dont need a sink tip to be successful streamer fishing.....I just think it works out better with one.....some of the sections of the stillwater river I fish are about that deep ...and with a unweighted fly and a sink tip line it really lets you present the fly with a more natural appearance.....you can either put it right on the bottom....or rip it along a ft down......I may have to look you up and well fish the scioto together...Ive never fished it....sounds fun......


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

More important than anything else is your casting stroke. With bigger flies you have to wait on them, as they are moving slower through the air. 

Bottom fly is 12"+. Timing & stiff leader is everything.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

Nice pair of Scotts Fallen. The bottom rod, what is the weight and the upper cork is intriguing. Is that a Scotts answer to a switch rod or just for more leverage?

Sorry for the sidebar. I like furled leaders. I hand tie my leaders which has improved my use of streamers. You can create a pretty stout butt and taper accordingly based on the size you use. I use mono line in 6 or 8 lbs test. If you like old glass like I do, check out the fenwicks as exceptions. The ff806, ff837, and ff857 make really nice streamer rods, imho. Also Steffen fiberglass rods are excellent modern glass rods for streamers; The 5/6wt, 8 ft rod has quite a following. Again, I like glass .


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## BradS (Apr 7, 2004)

I like furled leaders also. I make a 4 foot flourocarbon furled leader just for streamer fishing. Turns over the big nasty flies well. Sinks like a stone. 2 feet of tippet and I am ready to go. with this set up, never had the need for a sink tip line. 

YMMV

Brad


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## Wrecks (Jan 30, 2013)

This is great info. Thanks to everyone.

I'm very curious about the furled leaders. I've done some research and am pretty sure I understand the process. Can you give me a quick recipe (taper count, loops/taper, peg distances, line size, etc). I can experiment, but I lack experience and need a starting point.

I just saw some videos on handtwisting mono leaders without jigs and pegs. Is that how you do it?


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Something I have done a little with real heavy flies and/or sink tip lines on my musky setup is using more of a Belgian-style cast. You can look that up on YouTube and find some examples. It takes the heavy fly/sink tip in more of a continuous arc and not the straight back/straight forward direction of a traditional overhead cast.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

Wrecks said:


> This is great info. Thanks to everyone.
> 
> I'm very curious about the furled leaders. I've done some research and am pretty sure I understand the process. Can you give me a quick recipe (taper count, loops/taper, peg distances, line size, etc). I can experiment, but I lack experience and need a starting point.
> 
> I just saw some videos on handtwisting mono leaders without jigs and pegs. Is that how you do it?


That is the video I used to learn. 




In the video he doubles over the line in the middle before twisting again. I actually double it over until it reaches down to the bottom third, twist, and then double it over again at the upper third. Needless to say, I start out with a really long piece of mono. One thing I have not tried yet but wanting to is having two tubes to places he strand of line as you are twisting. This is supposed to keep the ends from crossing and tangling as you are twisting the line. Trial and error will answer the mono size and taper that works best for you. The "formula" I gave worked for me or at least improved upon the store bought tapered knotless leaders I used to get. I am sure more scientific methods to get taper are available.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

Your 6/7 wt rod should be plenty heavy enough to hurl heavy streamers. When I got my rod, I was on the fence between 6 and 8. I thought I would need the 8 to throw anything big enough to catch bass, but I ended up getting the 6. What I found is that if you work on your technique, throwing heavy flies on a 6 (clousers in my case) is really not a problem at all. I am by no means a proficient caster yet but I am getting there. I think a lot of people under-estimate just how heavy a 6 wt is. I love it and I think I'll get it out after work today.
Here is how I cast them: roll cast to bring the fly up, then immediately pick up the line in to your back cast (before the fly sinks). If I am fishing in current (like swinging streamers through a riffle/run), once my fly straightens out below me, I like to do a single hand spey cast (snap-T I think) to quickly and efficiently throw my line back upstream. A lot of times this is sufficient and you don't even need to supplement it with an overhead/belgian. I do this with about 5 or 6 ft of bass taper leader on a floating line. I got a fast sinking poly leader to try in lieu of a sink tip, but I haven't tested it yet.
EDIT: the hardest part for me was/is the roll cast. You gotta stick that rod way up in the air to make a big D loop behind you, and then cast it forward like you are throwing a tomahawk. The biggest piece of helping advice for me was that you should not push your hand forward, as it is rather more of a downward motion. You will know if you've done it right, because if you don't, it won't work lol.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

Wrecks said:


> I've been dabbling with fly fishing for a few years, and feel fairly competent casting. I've got a 6/7 weight 9" fly rod. I've practiced a lot this spring and can cast an empty line 60 feet without problems. I'd really like to fish exclusively with the fly rod this year. I fish in the Scioto River for smallmouth (but I'm really hoping to catch a pike with every cast), so I need to throw some pretty big flies.
> 
> Today, I tried to take my new skills to the river, and put a 4" rabbit strip streamer on my line, and I could barely get the dang thing out of the water. When I did, the line wouldn't lift on the back cast, and when it hit the end of the back cast, instead of loading the rod, it was like it hit a wall and dropped straight down, back into the water.
> 
> What do I need to do to learn to cast bigger flies? I'm guessing I need a much stronger rod.


For the 4" rabbit strip you will need 8-9 weight line to carry that load.
You could actually cast that fly with a light spinning outfit. Depends on the thickness, the water soaked 4" rabbit fur fly could represent some real substantial weight that lighter lines wont carry along with them. In the river situation you will rely on lots of roll castings due to the trees and bushes being in the way of back casting. It will be absolutely impossible to rollcast with light line.
So go with 8 and see how it works. If you have a really fast 6 weight rod it will most likely handle #8 line in short river distances.


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## Flymaker (Jan 24, 2013)

Wrecks said:


> This is great info. Thanks to everyone.
> 
> I'm very curious about the furled leaders. I've done some research and am pretty sure I understand the process. Can you give me a quick recipe (taper count, loops/taper, peg distances, line size, etc). I can experiment, but I lack experience and need a starting point.
> 
> I just saw some videos on handtwisting mono leaders without jigs and pegs. Is that how you do it?


I make mine out of 10lb or 12 lb materal ........I use about a 5ft leader on my sink tip lines....so I start with 14ft of line and start twisting....once Ive twisted it the first time I fold it over about half way and twist again...then I add 1 ft of tippet ...this gives me approx a ft foot leader....my tippet for streamer fishing is a 6lb test most of the time......and yes use the video you watched.....


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

It's a prototype Scott 12 weight from the mid nineties. You can take the tip and bend it down & touch the grip no problem. I've had it a bit past that on big tarpon. 

Do yourself a favor and get one of EagleClaw's new Featherlight fly rods. They're $30. Fiberglass blend. 








The line is more important than the rod when determining fly size. The ratio of fly line head weight to fly weight has a direct correlation to ease of casting. Buy more lines before buying more rods.


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## Jimijaz (Oct 15, 2007)

Agree with Fallen on this one, on the leader. You can't cast a wet sock the same way you do a trico. Gotta slow it down. That's why I like using softer rods for this. I routinely cast large streamers with my sage bluegill rod with no problems but that's basically a 9wt line on a rod that flexes to the grip. My preference is for old glass. Say a Fenwick FF806 with maybe a slightly heavier line. You HAVE to slow your casting stroke with a slower rod. Also, it keeps you from piercing the back of your noggin with the aforementioned sock.


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## trekker (Feb 18, 2013)

Skagit line.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

oarfish said:


> For the 4" rabbit strip you will need 8-9 weight line to carry that load.
> You could actually cast that fly with a light spinning outfit.


I found this statement interesting. You see a lot of ppl ask what wt rod they should get and then you get answers based on the type of fish one is going after. An 8-9wt rod is usually reserved for those "big fish" but then it is suggested using a light spin 

Pick the rod based on the fly you want to cast and not the target fish.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

fallen513 said:


> Do yourself a favor and get one of EagleClaw's new Featherlight fly rods. They're $30. Fiberglass blend.


The secret is out.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

ARReflections said:


> I found this statement interesting. You see a lot of ppl ask what wt rod they should get and then you get answers based on the type of fish one is going after. An 8-9wt rod is usually reserved for those "big fish" but then it is suggested using a light spin
> 
> Pick the rod based on the fly you want to cast and not the target fish.



Actually the rod recommendation was based on the lure size and not at all on the fish size.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

oarfish said:


> Actually the rod recommendation was based on the lure size and not at all on the fish size.


Yup, I was agreeing with your statement.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I choose what rod to use based on the fish, when selecting between 3-9 weights. You can throw bigger flies with smaller rods, but you can't break the spirit of a big fish as quickly. 

Lots of variables at play!


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

fallen513 said:


> I choose what rod to use based on the fish, when selecting between 3-9 weights. You can throw bigger flies with smaller rods, but you can't break the spirit of a big fish as quickly.
> 
> Lots of variables at play!


That is a different subject. The OP's question was about a 4" rabbit strip casting difficulty and not the problem of landing fish with a given rod size.
I know some of you claim that you can throw the heavy rabbit fur with 3-6 weight rod: good for you ( and I would love to see it haha). But I would not give that advice to anyone asking me. I will tell them to go with the 8+ weight line.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

He doesn't need an 8 or 9 weight to cast a 4" rabbit strip. 

He needs to work on his casting stroke and perhaps try a heavier fly line. 

He is obviously using too heavy of a fly for his lines grain weight, which explains why the rod didn't load on the back cast and the fly fell. Very easy fix. 

I read nothing in the OP that says "you need a new rod". 

Learn to cast with what you have and you will be much better for it.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

fallen513 said:


> He doesn't need an 8 or 9 weight to cast a 4" rabbit strip.
> 
> He needs to work on his casting stroke and perhaps try a heavier fly line.
> 
> ...


First of all you are wrong about the OP's original question: go back and read it.
Secondly, the casting you referring to is called "chuck-n-duck". You will see a lot of it on the river especially amongst "bobber fishers". That is the kind of casting technique where the line follows the lure. I am sure you are aware that in fly casting the fly supposed to follow the line. In other words the line's own weight will carry the fly along the ride. In the method you are describing the weight of the lure is in charge, pulling the line behind it to the target."Chuck-n-duck" casters are never able to roll cast the heavy load so they swinging their bait around potentially harming themselves and others on the river.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

What we have here is a failure to communicate. 

You are suggesting he needs a bigger fly rod. 

I am suggesting he work on his casting stroke, along with trying a heavier flyline on the rod he has. 

I can't be any more clear than that. No chuck n duck involved.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Oarfish, many of us out here use heavier line then what the rod is listed as, very common when the rod says its a 5/6 , so do you use a 5 or a 6??also a lot of it is attributed to not only the speed and flexness of the rod but how you want tto use it. For example if I was using a Wullf Trangle Taper floating line on my 3 wt, I had to i bump to a 5 wt for it to actually roll over two bead heads and an indicator at 50 ft which I commonly do on the Mad as Iam wading upstream. Its not what the rod or line were desined to do but I did it to adapt to my style of casting and techniques used for my particular form of nymphing. If I used the 3 wt line it had no balls and I couldnt shoot the flies with any authority and the 4 wt was better but the 5wt worked out perfect. Lots of variables here and the above was one such example of adding a heavier line to make things work and a very far cry from Chuck and Duck. ( you need to spend some time on the PM in Michigan if you want to really see the CnD methods in use, I agree its a joke. ) Ohio steelheaders have along way o go before they will ever be at the level those guys up north are. 

Salmonid


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

oarfish said:


> First of all you are wrong about the OP's original question: go back and read it.





> What do I need to do to learn to cast bigger flies?





fallen513 said:


> More important than anything else is your casting stroke. Timing & stiff leader is everything.







oarfish said:


> I know some of you claim that you can throw the heavy rabbit fur with 3-6 weight rod: good for you ( and I would love to see it haha).



*
Spite Fly SBS​*
Find broken hook.










60 lb. Jerry Brown braid, backwards for a touch of class.










Then lash it down right.











Big chunk of rabbit for the nonbelievers. 











Palmer.











Flash backwards.










And right.











Hot pink marabou & olive coastal deer hair for ridiculousness.











You don't need spinning gear.












Nozzir.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Get a reel with a 4 weight line on it, like an Abel Super 2...










Grab a 4 weight rod, perhaps a Beulah...











Tie an overhand knot in your line...











Pass it through the eye, then back through the knot.











2 times around the leader...











And back through the knot...











Pull it tight pimpin'. Now you know a loop knot. 
















Then, go out in your yard and throw it 80 feet for the cynics.









talk's cheap.

Cheers!


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I can honestly say that I am not a good caster. I've proven that to myself time & time again, whether blowing shots to tarpon or hooking myself in the face when it's windy. You can see that I am double-hauling pretty dramatically in the video. 4 weights aren't ideal for throwing rabbit 80 feet...but I wouldn't say it's difficult by any stretch. With a 6, it's cake...you just have to figure out how to make it happen. 

Start with less fly line out of the tip of the rod, and try shooting more line.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

Nice looking fly, Fallen!! If you can cast that wet on a 4 weight line (no chuck-and duck now) I will give you $100 worth of used fly fishing gear.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Obviously you didn't watch the video. 

Are you going to deliver the stuff or should I come pick it up?

(There's a video embedded above of me casting it 80', just for you)

Click "I agree".


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

And if you want to deliver, I will show you in person then take you fishing if you'd like.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

fallen513 said:


> Get a reel with a 4 weight line on it, like an Abel Super 2...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. 

And I kinda like that quickie fly.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

fallen513 said:


> Obviously you didn't watch the video.
> 
> Are you going to deliver the stuff or should I come pick it up?
> 
> ...


I would be more than happy to fish with you in that Scioto river but it might be some time before I could make it down there. Could you be coming up and fish closer to the Cleveland area? I am here to make time for it. Sending you a PM with my phone #. You could cast your fly nice and soaked with water with the trees and shrubs around. And also cast a nice weighted bunny fly that is used mostly on the river versus topwater. Rollcasting it with 6 weight line. I would be glad to take you on my boat in an inland lake situation as well where you can cast freely in the open with double haul.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

What were we talking about again?


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I would like my $100 victory parcel donated to Project Healing Waters. 

http://www.projecthealingwaters.org/Donate/Howyoucanhelp.aspx


Thanks!


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

I have a feeling that you are not going to call me, fallen.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Calling right now sir.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I got your answering machine Laszlo. Not sure what you want to discuss but you have my number now. I am free all night.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Nice talking to you Laszlo. Hopefully we can get together and fish sometime. 

I tied another fly and shot some more video for you tonight. I'll post it up later, I think I may go try to snag a bass in the mouth.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

fallen513 said:


> Nice talking to you Laszlo. Hopefully we can get together and fish sometime.
> 
> I tied another fly and shot some more video for you tonight. I'll post it up later, I think I may go try to snag a bass in the mouth.


It was good to talk with you also Seph.
I am all for getting together for fishing. Maybe we could make a video of practical line weights for various types of flies haha..


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I couldn't remember if I had any more rabbit.

I did.










That should do.










Yes.











The meat.










Finished.











And wet.











For comparison, it's maybe 8".











Thrown on this:











See video. Wet fly, 6' leader... 60-70 feet with little effort.

I roll cast at the end since you mentioned it as well. 

At 1:50 seconds I cast the fly 70 feet into a bucket. No ducking.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

That is another pretty fly there my friend. The brass cone is not enough weight in the river when targeting smallmouth in a 4' hole in current however.

In the Rocky River sinking tip lines are not usable (other than the mini tip kind) floating line is practical, double taper for roll casting.

I would like to send you a "nice" 4 incher bunny fly with dumbbell eyes that will swim 2-4' deep and can be swung deep even in heavier current. Has to be fished with at least 8' leader for best results.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Sounds good Laszlo. 



Wrecks, come to Cincinnati with your gear!


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

Fallen,
I am in awe of the fly and you casting it with a 4wt. World class skills there. You got a trailer hook on it I think. I may tie some for an outside chance at a muskie in a few weeks. 

Great post guys, I just now started reading it and WOW!


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## Wrecks (Jan 30, 2013)

Fallen,

I've got a lot of casting practice to do before I'll be ready to take my game of shame public.

You mentioned earlier that you matched your line to the lure. What weight line are you using in your videos?

Edit: I see that in the intro to your first video that it's a 4 weight line and rod. I won't be able to do that.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm saying come down here and we can work on your casting. The videos were only to show that it's possible, even with a 4 weight. That is not an "ideal" setup however. 


Oarfish and I are in agreement that a heavier line and/or rod will make it easier for you. 

Having someone help you learn how to properly cast what you have will make you much better also, which is what I'm offering if you can make it down. Get in touch.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

I used to fly fish for smallmouth as a kid for one- two months a year every summer. The problem is not your casting its your rod. Graphite and big flies does not cut the mustard. A fast action rod is the problem here. It is harder to load up to get the out there. I used to fish an orvis battenskill 10 wieght 9 foot fly rod. Split bamboo is heavier but you can literally cast a bass bug the size of a small hampster effortlessly into your backing. I used a bass taper fly line. It is basically a magnum wieght forward line. I would check on ebay for a china version to get the job done. The orvis is like a 1200 dollar rod. Also you might be able to find an 8 wieght fiberglass rod on the cheap there. You need a slow and powerful action to really punch those deer hair flies into the wind. The best part of split bamboo is that the fly always hits the water before the line does. Its cool on a parachute cast to be able to hook an agressive fish before the line ever touches the water.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

A lot of amazing information in that post. Thanks for that.


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

Not sure what more I can add. That would also explain my horrible golf game. I thought it was my swing but all along it was my graphite shaft clubs.


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## trekker (Feb 18, 2013)

I have a 10'6 redington CPX 5 Wt. switch rod. Loaded with a 390 Grain compact Skagit line, and tipped with 6' of t-3 tip, I can cast large lead-eyed flies 60 feet with little effort. 

The great thing is, You don't need any room to back cast. I just got back from a very brushy, tight river in the U.P., and was able to swing large flies in any spot affording me a 6' opening to load the rod. I was using an 11'6 Redington loaded with a 470 Gr. Compact Skagit line and 7-10' of t-14 sink tip. Everybody else was pretty much anchored to the wide bends, cause it was the only place they could fish.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Some skagit practice:






A cat:


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