# line help?



## jason_0545 (Aug 3, 2011)

i got a new rod for my baitcaster. this is only the 2nd year with it and last year my rod broke so i used an old one i had in the basement for the rest of the season. i have 2 spinning reels. one is medium action 6'6, the other is a med action 6'8 with fast tip jig/worm rod and i throw mono on both usually 10 lb on the med action and 14 on the worm rod. the rod i got for my baitcaster is a 7' medhvy fast action. i would like to be able to use the baitcaster as much as possible so i can get more used to it. was just wondering what everyones opinion on what type and test i should put on it. and i dunno if it matters much but i bankfish bout 95 % of the time


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

7' medium heavy fast action makes me think of primarily a worm/jig rod that could do other duties like spinner baits up to 1/2 oz, hollow bodied swim baits up to about 5", hollow bodied frogs, and Carolina rig. Definitely a single hook lure kind of rod. For all of the above lures I use 15 to 17 lb, fluorocarbon line. I actually use 50 to 65 lb braid for hollow bodied frogs, but I'm lucky enough to have multiple outfits for certain fishing situations. 

I've been using Vicious Pro Elite line. It's a good all around fluorocarbon. A little stretchier than some lines like Sunline Shooter, but not as stretchy as Gama Edge. I'd say it's comparable with Berkley 100% fluorocarbon, but costs slightly less.


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## mpd5094 (Jun 20, 2005)

I agree with previous post. Fluoro is the way to go. That stuff is very tough and sensitive. You will miss very few strikes and have alot less break offs.


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## jason_0545 (Aug 3, 2011)

i was kinda thinking of putting flouro on it but was unsure bc ive never used it ever. since ihad never had a baitcaster before got a cheaper one abu garcia silver maxx was only wondering how it would cast thanx for the input guys


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## mo65 (Aug 5, 2011)

jason_0545 said:


> i was kinda thinking of putting flouro on it but was unsure bc ive never used it ever. since ihad never had a baitcaster before got a cheaper one abu garcia silver maxx was only wondering how it would cast thanx for the input guys


Since you've never used fluoro...what you're going to notice most is the improved sensitivity. The casting part of it is basically the same as mono.:G


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

heres what i think.

that size rod is a good worm/jig rod. but i got a 7 foot crank bait rod that i use on weighted cranks.

for a worm or jig i use 14 LB mono BPS excel line. best line ive ever used. i change my line every trip or if im fishing alot in a week every other trip... i dont have issues with break offs. a large spool will last me about 1/2 a year. i dident lose one fish to a break this year. but after alot of heavy cover, or 2 or 3 fish ill generally cut off and retie 3 or 4 feet up.

but it works for me the best. i tried flourocarbon...i liked the ability to "dissappear" but for most of ohio i dont feel i need it. if i aint in the muddy river im in the depths of the lakes. but even in 5 foot or less of water..ive had alot of sucsess with the mono.

my largest bass this year.. 6-7 lbs was on a steelie lure jerk bait, in about 40 degree water. that thing sat for like15 or 20 seconds! i know that fish coulda sat there and seen the line. but if you have a good presentation the line shouldent be as much of a concern for 95% of the time. and you wont go broke!

theres so many options just have to find what works for you. what line you can afford to use or like to use.. what line really matters for your situation, and what your fishing for.

the rod and reel shouldent be as much of a concern. the pros of a 7+foot rod..they can give you loads of leverage, cons...dont fit in my rod locker!

but going from mono to flouro, youll need to adjust your drag a little as it dont streach as much as mono..with a bait caster if your heavy on the drag like i am, youll bury the line in to the reel...and cause big issues!


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## GARNERMAN357 (Jan 22, 2010)

i agree with ranger. good info there. there is less stretch an i beleive it helps me get better hook sets bot tuning your real with both the spool tension nob and the main star drag as well as any assiting brakes will help with casting. fluro in my opinion is better in most areas but cost more. dont use it with top water tactics thou. it sinks and will mess with the action of some baits.


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## jason_0545 (Aug 3, 2011)

much help guys thanks. i use trilene smooth casting mono i guess just bc it was cheap when i started fishing and havent switched bc i havent found the need to. i fish mostly rock. just bc i dont have a boat and the grass at the main res i fish had proven tough to fish from the bank. takes a decent cast to get too it the all that line wont fall through the grass. love the input tho good luck all ogfers


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Try bps excel get the big spool last u a long time...1 spool lasts me 1/2 year but i fish a ton... best mo o ever imo... and i fish some heavy stuff. My world revolves around 12 14 and 20 lb test


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Plus mono streaches..i got a nasty hook set... my line is matched to the rod... then to me. I use diffrrent hooksets on different rods... a little give in the line a little give on the rod a little give in the hands... all pieces of a fine tuned pie.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Just to share my thoughts on line. I use fluorocarbon for almost everything. The only exception being top water lures. As has been said by others.... unless it's a buzz bait, you need a line that floats for top water lures. I also use braid for very specific situations, but for everything else I use fluorocarbon.

I don't use fluorocarbon because it's less visible under water, (that's just an added bonus) I use it because it's more sensitive and has less stretch than mono. I feel more bites and get more solid hook sets regardless of what kind of lure I'm fishing. Especially at the end of a long cast. Fluorocarbon's sensitivity also helps with discerning bottom content. Also, most fluorocarbon lines are more abrasion resistant than most mono's... another added bonus. Fluorocarbon line is less susceptible to UV, and doesn't absorb water as much as mono does, so it lasts longer. The fact that fluorocarbon sinks is another bonus, especially with crank baits. I step up one size in line (from 10# to 12#) and still get the same depth out of the lures because the line sinks. 

I even use fluorocarbon on my drop shot and shaky head spinning rods. It's touchy on spinning gear, but if you use 6# or 8# test and use a line conditioner it's pretty manageable. 

For me, fluorocarbon is as close as you can come to a perfect all around line. It has it's limitations, and it's problems. But so do all other types of lines. 

And not to be picky or be a smarty pants or anything. But a longer fishing rod doesn't increase your leverage. It actually decreases leverage. The advantages of longer rods are that they move more line, they absorb and store more energy, and they increase rod tip speed.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Bassbme said:


> And not to be picky or be a smarty pants or anything. But a longer fishing rod doesn't increase your leverage. It actually decreases leverage. The advantages of longer rods are that they move more line, they absorb and store more energy, and they increase rod tip speed.


if your hand is the fulcrum...and your rod is the lever...the longer the rod the more the leverage, it dont mean you can lift more, i guess what i meant to say as the farther from the fulcrum, with the same ammount of twist, your out farther, moveing more line.


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## mo65 (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm not attempting to rustle any feathers here...just to pass on some info. Fluoro's lack of stretch is greatly over rated. Although it does have less stretch than mono, the difference is minimal. Fluoro's real advantage is it's invisibility under water and its increased sensitivity. Now if you don't think it stretches...try this. Take 2 feet of mono, wrap one end around each hand and pull until it is _just_ tight. now pull harder...feel the stretch? Now do it with fluoro...note the similarity? Now try it with braid..._that_ is what a no-stretch line feels like. I do use all three lines, as they all have advantages for certain applications.:G


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

burn is burn, at the end of the day a fish to weigh in is worth it!


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Mo, you're absolutely right. When the lines are dry, the difference in the amount of stretch between fluorocarbon and nylon or co polymer lines can be considered minimal. But, depending on which brands you're comparing, the difference can be as much as 7%. Some fluorocarbon lines actually stretch more than some nylon or co polymer lines do. The numbers depend on brand. When the lines are wet, it's a different story. Nylon or co polymer lines absorb water, where as 100% fluorocarbon lines absorb none, or very little water, so the properties of fluorocarbon lines don't change as much as nylon or co polymer lines do. Granted, mono doesn't stretch that much more (1% to 2% more when wet versus when dry) but it does stretch more, where as fluorocarbon line doesn't. Add the 2% more stretch when wet, and now you have a difference of 9%. That's becoming a fairly significant difference. Some fluorocarbons do stretch more when wet versus dry, but again it all depends on brands being compared. As you said, one of fluorocarbons advantages over nylon or co polymer lines is its' increased sensitivity. That increase in sensitivity is result of less stretch. That's why braided lines are so sensitive.... they don't stretch, or they stretch very little. 

It's the same thing when it comes to abrasion resistance. When dry, some fluorocarbon lines are less abrasion resistant than some nylon or co polymer lines, some are more abrasion resistant. When wet, it's a different story. 100% fluorocarbon lines abrasion resistance numbers stay consistent, because they don't absorb water. While water absorbing nylon or co polymer lines resistance to abrasion, decreases by as much as 50%. For instance..... in dry line tests of comparable diameter lines, 12# test Berkley XL was 31% more resistant to abrasion than 10# test Seaguar InvizX. When wet, the 12# Berkley was 19% less resistant to abrasion than the InvizX. 

But fluorocarbon line does have its' draw backs. It's proven that fluorocarbon lines have weaker knot strengths when compared to nylon or co polymer lines. But the fact that the line doesn't absorb water means that the lines performance is consistent. Nylon or co polymer lines knot strength decreases when wet. One thing that could be considered a major draw back of fluorocarbon lines is the fact that they don't rebound as well as nylon or co polymer lines. Once a fluorocarbon line is stretched, it stays stretched. Nylon and co polymer lines return to or close to their original length. That probably explains why people sometimes break a fish off on a hook set. The fluorocarbon line is already stretched at, or close to its' limit, and it stayed deformed. I take that fact into consideration when I retie during the day. When using fluorocarbon I'll cut off 3 to 4 feet of line every time I retie. 

Anyhow....... like you said .... all types of lines have advantages and draw backs that we as anglers have to consider when choosing which line we are going to use. We're not ruffling feathers ..... we're discussing ideas.


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## mo65 (Aug 5, 2011)

Bassbme,
 Thanks for all the additional info. Yours is the type of post guys need to read, learn what these lines are all about, and know more about their options. A well informed fisherman is a successful fisherman. BTW...I have a spool of Seaguar Tatsu on the way, has anyone used it? Hope its as good as the hype says it is!


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Mo, thanks for the kind words. I definitely agree when you say that having as much information as we can, helps us in making decisions. As far as the Tatsu ..... I haven't tried it yet, but I definitely plan on trying it this year. I'm still searching for a fluorocarbon line that has the best balance of the good and the bad of fluorocarbon, so if you would ..... when you get your spool I'd appreciate it if you would post your initial thoughts as to how you think it will perform. I would be nice to get a review from someone whose knowledge, experience, and opinion that I can trust, versus reading reviews on Tackle Warehouse's web site. Like you, I hope the Tatsu is as good as the hype ...... especially at that price.


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## mo65 (Aug 5, 2011)

Bassbme said:


> I'm still searching for a fluorocarbon line that has the best balance of the good and the bad of fluorocarbon, so if you would ..... when you get your spool I'd appreciate it if you would post your initial thoughts as to how you think it will perform. I would be nice to get a review from someone whose knowledge, experience, and opinion that I can trust, versus reading reviews on Tackle Warehouse's web site.


Will do Bassbme....I'll also report my thoughts after putting it through the paces. I can't say I've heard any bad reviews yet...so I'll be divin' in with enthusiasm!


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## legendaryyaj (Nov 1, 2005)

The reason behind why Tatsu costs so much is because it is as close as you can get to a pure form of fluorocarbon. There are only 3 companies that make pure 100% fluorocarbon. EVERYONE get's it from one of those three then put it through their own process of making their blend. It's pretty much the base to start with. You can make it stretch, add color to it, and process it however you want to get "your" formula.

If any of you fly fish, you will also notice that they make little spools to FC leader material that costs a considerable amount. I use to think why would anyone spend that kind of money on a small leader material spool when they can get a full spool for just about the same price. Reason behind that from what I've read is that the leader material FC are really close to 100% thus it costing so much more. There is a difference between the two and Tatsu is supposed to be closer to that so that is why it costs more.

There are many blends of fluorocarbon out there and depending on what suits you, is what will make it better in your opinion. Fishing line is still part of the tools of fishing so you have to use it for the right purpose or else it just won't work out.

I personally run different types of fluoro depending on what technique I will be using it for. If anything involves casting with flouro, I use the cheaper FC to get it's qualities of lesser stretch if that's what I need. Mono just has way to much stretch thus the reason why it seems harder to break. It just keeps stretching. I do not believe fluoro is marketed as "no stretch" line. I've seen "less" stretch but never "no" stretch.

From my experience, it seems like the more sensitivity you want, the harder to manage the fluoro is. I use that kinda of fluoro on my flippin/pitchin setups and that's about it. Anything else and it's the lower models. They say braid is super sensitive but it's only super sensitive on tight line, put any slack in it and fluoro will beat it. What I do hate about fluoro is the knot strength. I tend to rush when retying so I get a lot of heartbreaks.

People tend to not try various brands to get a real opinion. They try one brand and if it works then they don't ever switch to something else. It's human nature but you have to keep moving to get better. Just because you picked a blonde and have never tried a redhead or brunette doesn't mean they aren't as good.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

legendaryaj, I couldn't agree more. Like you I use different manufacturers fluorocarbon lines on different rods. Sunline Shooter for flipping and pitching, Vicious Pro Elite for any casting techniques, like crank baits, swim bait, spinner baits ... etc. And Seagaur InvizX on my spinning reels. They're all very different lines. I've tried a bunch of different fluorocarbon lines, and so far those have worked the best for me. I'm really looking forward to trying the Tatsu. Almost every review I have read about it, says it's the best fluorocarbon going. I hope so


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

sounds like alot of work and money lol


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## Marshall (Apr 11, 2004)

For the new guy learing how to use a baitcaster and fishing from shore, i would save your money and buy mono. I remember the days when i would load up on a cast to only discover my bait caught a twig in a cast and poof. Now i can get most backlashes out but you will end up with kinks in the line which equals weak spots. Us guys fishing from a boat and those who have been handling baitcasters many years i would definately go with fluoro. if its in your budget. As much as i fish and as much as i change line i could not afford to use fluoro on every reel i own. I try to use fluoro on the rods such as a flipping/pitching rod where sensitivity is needed. Fast moving baits where the fish just hooks up, mono will do just fine. I did not say mono is better but will get the job done for the average guy, ive used it for years.


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## mo65 (Aug 5, 2011)

Here is a good video by Bill Dance that explains the differences in styles of line and the advantages of each type. He also mentions the true reason for fluoro's increased sensitivity...the fact that it is a dense compound...unlike the "swiss cheese" structure of mono. This density translates to sensitivity. :F

[YOUTUBE]Ap1xNaKuhC4[/YOUTUBE]


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Bassbme said:


> Just to share my thoughts on line. I use fluorocarbon for almost everything. The only exception being top water lures. As has been said by others.... unless it's a buzz bait, you need a line that floats for top water lures. I also use braid for very specific situations, but for everything else I use fluorocarbon.
> 
> I don't use fluorocarbon because it's less visible under water, (that's just an added bonus) I use it because it's more sensitive and has less stretch than mono. I feel more bites and get more solid hook sets regardless of what kind of lure I'm fishing. Especially at the end of a long cast. Fluorocarbon's sensitivity also helps with discerning bottom content. Also, most fluorocarbon lines are more abrasion resistant than most mono's... another added bonus. Fluorocarbon line is less susceptible to UV, and doesn't absorb water as much as mono does, so it lasts longer. The fact that fluorocarbon sinks is another bonus, especially with crank baits. I step up one size in line (from 10# to 12#) and still get the same depth out of the lures because the line sinks.
> 
> ...


This is why everyone needs to try different lines and see what's best for them...I use Daiwa Samurai Braid for everything, because of it's qualities...to me it doesn't have limitations and I have learned that because Braid floats it keeps you out of trouble AND with the small line size, it has very MINIMAL effect on a lure in the water!
I will also throw 17lb Nanofil when I need to make MONSTER casts from the bank!


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