# Warning to all Fisherman



## gonefishinbaitandtackle (Jan 30, 2009)

Over the past three or four weeks I have had five reports from individuals in my shop of their cars being broke into out at West Branch and a gentleman was in this morning and told me that Sunday night he had a guy pull a knife on him for his tackle box out at Portage Lakes by the spillway.

If your parking your car out of your line of sight make sure anything that is of any value is in the trunk or at the very least hidden (in my case if anyone would look inside my car all they are going to see are McDonalds wrappers and empty coffee cups)

If you plan on fishing at night, try and find someone to fish with, there is safety in numbers

If you see someone acting suspicious or just seems out of place CALL THE COPS that is what they are there for.

This spring and summer promises to be some VERY good fishing, so lets not let a couple of idiots mess it up for us. I would hate to think that I am might have to start selling cans of mace in the store


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## HeadwatersEd (Mar 14, 2006)

Thanks for the heads up. Its a shame we have to worry about stuff like this, seems to be becoming more common. Eventually this is going to end up going badly for the person doing the breaking in. 

Any idea where the break-ins are happening at West Branch? Which parking lot?


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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

one word for those chumps, BANG!


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## Eriesteamer (Mar 9, 2007)

Can you really buy mace in stores ( or pepper spray ) and what stores carry it,last is it legal to carry.
Can you buy those electric shockers in stores and if not send away get them.and are they legal to have .just wanted know.last I carry my rapel fish fillet knife in my tackle box fear some smart ass cops will try to rap me for a concealed weapon charge.you never know what they try.cops or robbers. last you did not see me ask if there legal use on robbers but that I maybe find latter if I can buy the things mentioned and any one try to do me in. LOL


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## fishngolf (Jul 18, 2009)

Wow..I heard rumors about people getting broke into at WB but now thats bad. Cant the law enforcement put camo on and use binoculars to catch these thiefs? You would think there would be some kind of pattern when and where they strike the most. Maybe put some bait out like a tackle box. Kinda not so serious but it would be fun to set claymores or bear traps by your truck to catch these crooks.


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## GULPisgreat (Mar 17, 2009)

ha.. claymore car defenses..thats awesome. Im really gonna have to watch out since I do quite a bit of night fishing alone at nimisila. One the good side im close to home and fish right along christman rd. so there are people that pass occasionally. On the bad side I fish on christman rd. and it would only take a few seconds for someone to pull a weapon and take my stuff. I talked to a ranger a few weeks ago about carrying a medium sized combat knife on me and he said it was ok. its when its concealed in your car it becomes a problem. I either have it on my belt or attached to my A.L.I.C.E. pack. by the way, if anyone feels like fishing at night after 11pm let me know. BE SAFE


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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

allwayzfishin said:


> one word for those chumps, BANG!


Ditto! TGFCCW


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## mpd5094 (Jun 20, 2005)

That's why I'm always packin'!! Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!!!


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## James30 (Apr 13, 2004)

I have to chime in and add that the most important thing is to be aware of your surroundings. I don't go anywhere without my Glock 36 but it will do me no good if some turd gets the drop on me. keep your head on a swivel and look for anything out of the ordinary. The thing to remember is if your "spider sense" starts to tingle, start to prepare and make a plan, hopefully you will not need to take action.


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## MIKE53ALI (Apr 21, 2010)

HEY!!! I was in your store today! it was my friend who got robbed lol. I agree with all those with protection. a lot of us who carry are waiting for our legit chance to shoot a bad guy. now THAT would be a catch lol.


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## Apex Predator (Feb 4, 2010)

Eriesteamer said:


> I carry my rapel fish fillet knife in my tackle box fear some smart ass cops will try to rap me for a concealed weapon charge.


Its better to be caught with it than without one.


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## billonthehill (Feb 6, 2009)

Next question is, if someone pulls a knife on you or i, do we have the right to draw our firearm and use it!!!!!!!!!
laws are on the dirtbags side i feel.
any thoughts or actual answers??


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## HeadwatersEd (Mar 14, 2006)

This thread is an example of why CCW is scary. Don't get me wrong, i am a gun owner, but when a thread starts with a guy posting a warning about cars getting broken into and turns into shooting the thief, something is very wrong. I am all about beating a thief to a bloody pulp, but too many people are way to quick to go to their guns. I really hope its all talk and no one would shoot someone over stealing a tacklebox. If you would, you deserve to be in jail just as much as the person breaking into the cars.


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## sonar (Mar 20, 2005)

billonthehill said:


> Next question is, if someone pulls a knife on you or i, do we have the right to draw our firearm and use it!!!!!!!!!
> laws are on the dirtbags side i feel.
> any thoughts or actual answers??


 Does'nt it read ? If your life is threatened?---------sonar............


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## harleydan1956 (Mar 13, 2010)

but if you " Beat someone to a pulp" once they are no longer a threat, then you will be charged. If they are stealing and NOT threatening you, then you will be charged with assault. The law states that you cannot use MORE force towards someone than that is being used against you. If they are just stealing.. you are not being threatened..... I read a thread where someone had a knife pulled on them... beat that one to a pulp? hmmmmmm... Sounds like you are to easy to beat someone without cause.....
I am not a fanatic.. but if someone threatens you with a knife.. that is fear for your life..but only when he is close enough to use it. That makes it a deadly weapon.


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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

MIKE53ALI said:


> HEY!!! I was in your store today! it was my friend who got robbed lol. I agree with all those with protection. a lot of us who carry are waiting for our legit chance to shoot a bad guy. now THAT would be a catch lol.


 I'm sure you are joking (I hope) as I'm not waiting to shoot anyone. If my life was threatened with deadly force, now thats another matter.


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## HeadwatersEd (Mar 14, 2006)

I am not writing writing about the legal repercussions of dealing with someone who is stealing from me. I am simply addressing the idea that someone who has a permit and is carrying has a duty to use it in a responsible way, not to blow away everyone they perceive as a "bad guy". If a guy has a knife or a gun and threatens you, by all means, blow them away. But what worries me is that people sound like they have a "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude. That is not making things safer for anyone, in fact its making things more dangerous. As i said in my first post, i am a responsible gun owner and a supporter of concealed carry. But it is very important that anyone carrying has a level head.


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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

HeadwatersEd said:


> This thread is an example of why CCW is scary. Don't get me wrong, i am a gun owner, but when a thread starts with a guy posting a warning about cars getting broken into and turns into shooting the thief, something is very wrong. I am all about beating a thief to a bloody pulp, but too many people are way to quick to go to their guns. I really hope its all talk and no one would shoot someone over stealing a tacklebox. If you would, you deserve to be in jail just as much as the person breaking into the cars.


if i had someone in front of me with a weapon(knife) and waving it in my face telling me to give up the goods, i would warn him first that he should walk away.
if he did not comply then the threat level would increase enough to use my weapon. im not saying i would shoot to kill, but he would surely drop his knife and be held till law enforcement shows. its all about the use of force matrix. follow it and you will be fine.


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## Ozdog (Jul 30, 2007)

People that carry guns don't scare me...people that can't carry themselves without a gun..THAT scares me.


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## WestBranchJoe (Jan 13, 2009)

I have only had two opportunities to go fishing in recent weeks. Both times I would have gone to West Branch, I would have been alone and at night. I did not go either time because of the recent break-ins. I am 6'1" 195lbs. and carry a knife when I fish. By no means am I unable to defend myself. 

I however have a wife and two young boys that want me to come back home when I go fishing. The last thing I want is to walk up on some idiots trying to break into my truck and something happens that prevents me from coming home to them.

This is driving me nuts! I love to fish and love to fish at night. I hope they catch these (insert your favorite expletive here) so I can go back to worrying about mosquitoes and not whether or not I am safe out there.

Joe


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## WiseEyes (Apr 7, 2010)

Billonthehill
the answer to your question about your right to defend yourself is rather simple. THe only time that it is lawful to attempt to defend yourself with deadly force is when your life is *Directly threatned* (this is veiwed from an objective stanard, or by what the reasonable person in that situation would have done). THink of the law of self defense as a balance between threat and response. If someone is unarmed and atacks you the approprate lawful response is only to negate the threat to yourself. So fend of the atacker and thats it. If someone atacks you with a knife and then sees your armed and attempts to flee then *let them flee*, because under the law his atack has ceased and any further action by you would be unlawful. Really the only time it is lawful to take a life in the state of ohio, outside of your home, is when you are cornered and are certain its kill or be kill. One has an obligation to try and escape w/o using deadly force. Your sidearm should always be a last resort. Remember, using CCW responsibly garantees all of our right to carry, the moment that vigilantism and knee jerk reactions (like the recent cleveland parking garage incident) begin is the moment all of us wil no longer have a right to carry!!!!


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

allwayzfishin said:


> if i had someone in front of me with a weapon(knife) and waving it in my face telling me to give up the goods, i would warn him first that he should walk away.
> if he did not comply then the threat level would increase enough to use my weapon. im not saying i would shoot to kill, but he would surely drop his knife and be held till law enforcement shows. its all about the use of force matrix. follow it and you will be fine.


I was hoping if someone pulled a knife on you and you had a gun, you'd do a Goober Pyle (or was it Gomer) and tell him to drop to the ground and yell "citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest." That would make it safer for us non CCW holders.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

I am all for CCW. If you are going to carry, you'd better know weapon retention and how to use the weapon. Most law enforcement officers are shot with their own weapon.

If I had a knife at 10', and you had to draw your gun, I'd beat you every time. You'll die with the gun in your holster.

Be careful out there!!


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## MIKE53ALI (Apr 21, 2010)

lakeslouie said:


> I'm sure you are joking (I hope) as I'm not waiting to shoot anyone. If my life was threatened with deadly force, now thats another matter.



not so much joking. but I have an idea for the law.



fishing and mind my own business....

"hey! gimme what you got!"

"bro, you don't wanna do that. just go on about your business (or maybe want to verbally tell him you have a gun(this tactic alone my help or make things worse)"

bad comes closer and brandishes weapon (doesn't matter what (bat, knife, tazer, gun))

I pull mine and find quick cover(if possible). "come any closer and I will shoot."

if bad guy has gun(firearm or tazer), shoot first !%

any impact or blade weapon..... shoot after real attack.



seriously, hopefully it never gets to the point of someone gettin' shot. I happen to also carry a knife and handcuffs. if I can apprehend the bad guy and call the police, then thats a good catch.

keep in mind no matter how you defend yourself..... be prepared to have to defend yourself again in court.


look.... just be observant. help another fisherman when he needs it. and secure your stuff. just have fun fishing. 

we don't need to build a fox news special out of this 









"get back or I will fire"


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## MIKE53ALI (Apr 21, 2010)

WiseEyes said:


> Billonthehill
> the answer to your question about your right to defend yourself is rather simple. THe only time that it is lawful to attempt to defend yourself with deadly force is when your life is *Directly threatned* (this is veiwed from an objective stanard, or by what the reasonable person in that situation would have done). THink of the law of self defense as a balance between threat and response. If someone is unarmed and atacks you the approprate lawful response is only to negate the threat to yourself. So fend of the atacker and thats it. If someone atacks you with a knife and then sees your armed and attempts to flee then *let them flee*, because under the law his atack has ceased and any further action by you would be unlawful. Really the only time it is lawful to take a life in the state of ohio, outside of your home, is when you are cornered and are certain its kill or be kill. One has an obligation to try and escape w/o using deadly force. Your sidearm should always be a last resort. Remember, using CCW responsibly garantees all of our right to carry, the moment that vigilantism and knee jerk reactions (like the recent cleveland parking garage incident) begin is the moment all of us wil no longer have a right to carry!!!!




this was better said than my last post. here here!


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## harleydan1956 (Mar 13, 2010)

You ARE allowed to protect your family if you feel they are in danger of losing their life. You do not have to stand by and watch. it is not just your own life. 
And I would not want to bet anyone that someone at 10' is faster than a trained marksman. trust me, I wouldn't stand there and let you impale me. Elvis presley used to say, don't ever bring a knife to a gun fight.. I kinda believe him. 
I hope they catch these people, I don't want anyone to die. It's a shame this topic even had to come up.


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## Nick116 (Feb 5, 2010)

There is a 21' distance that has been upheld in courts that implies anyone with a knife in their hand and is anywhere within 21' of you, can be considered life threatening. It has been proven time and time again that within that distance, if the attacker has the knife in his hand and you are still holstered, he can and will get to you before you can draw and fire. I'm not saying that this would apply in every case because the knife wielder MUST have the ability to actually get to you and not standing on the opposite side of a 15' wide 10' deep stream


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Nick116 said:


> There is a 21' distance that has been upheld in courts that implies anyone with a knife in their hand and is anywhere within 21' of you, can be considered a life threatening. It has been proven time and time again that within that distance, if the attacker has the knife in his hand and you are still holstered, he can and will get to you before you can draw and fire. I'm not saying that this would apply in every case because the knife wielder MUST have the ability to actually get to you and not standing on the opposite side of a 15' wide 10' deep stream


When in doubt put your filet knife in the dead man's hands........


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## James30 (Apr 13, 2004)

All I have to say is you guys do what you want, I know from my training and experience what I can do within the law. If someone pulls a knife on me, I don't care what he is asking for whether it be my wallet, tackle box or spare change... you don't pull a weapon i.e. knife, gun, bat, spear on someone with out some notion or intention. Am I going to ask him what his intention is with that weapon..NO, I am going to act if he puts me in that position. I am going home and if I have to defend my action later so be it.. I am the one who will have to live with my decision. As I posted earlier it is better to act then to re-act because you are always 2 seconds behind by then so keep vigilant and don't walk into a situation if it makes you feel uneasy.


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

You have the right to "neutralize" the threat - but then you call 911 and ask for an ambulance. Give some type of First Aid if you can.... I hope I never have to shoot anyone. I couldn't live with the nightmares.... Some of you guys have been watching way too much tv. Death ain't pretty.


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## Apex Predator (Feb 4, 2010)

Tokugawa said:


> If I had a knife at 10', and you had to draw your gun, I'd beat you every time. You'll die with the gun in your holster.
> 
> Be careful out there!!


Do you really think you could make it to someone from 10 feet away before they could draw there gun? I myself have to open carry my firearm so it much more accesable than a CCW and i carry a minimum of 3 knives on me at all times. 2 Fast draw protection knives, not your little pocket knife. Also remember that 5" in the gut wont stop someone from dumping 13 in your chest. You dont pass out from a knife wound instantly. There are only a few instant stop points for a body for a knife and you should probably be trained and standing behind them.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Nick116 said:


> There is a 21' distance that has been upheld in courts that implies anyone with a knife in their hand and is anywhere within 21' of you, can be considered life threatening. It has been proven time and time again that within that distance, if the attacker has the knife in his hand and you are still holstered, he can and will get to you before you can draw and fire. I'm not saying that this would apply in every case because the knife wielder MUST have the ability to actually get to you and not standing on the opposite side of a 15' wide 10' deep stream


This is truth. The assumption is the guy holding you up with a knife for your fishing gear is not across the water too. The assumption is also that he shows the weapon.

Harley and Apex - The LE types I train with train for 20'. If a normal Joe is carrying his rod and tackle box, and the perp gets within 10', the CCW is as big a liability as it is an asset. I certainly don't have NFL speed, and I can cover a 10' span in less than a second. Can you really drop everything, draw, rack it (assuming it is a semi-auto pistol), aim and discharge the weapon accurately in under 1 second - under duress? I don't think so. Every firearm qualified LE guy I train with can't do that, and they admit it. Try it next time you are out shooting. The only way you can do it is to carry a revolver in an old west holster.

You guys are the good guys - I don't want you guys under-estimating something and finding out the hard way later. I support CCW, but you need to be aware of the limitations.

I'd avoid Berlin until they catch the perp. He's going to get more brazen, not less.


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## Apex Predator (Feb 4, 2010)

The post was started for West Branch not Berlin. I appreciate your views and hopes and do realize my limitations. Again Ill say that I have no CCW, I have to Open Carry. My 45 is on my hip outside if the shirt. It is always racked and ready to go. Pull Point Squeeze. Nothing but a grip safety. I do have to admit tho that I am lazy. I do not ever want to have to shoot anyone but Id rather shoot than fight. I have things to do later and dont need to be tired for them.

I have to add also that this is Ohio, it is legal to Buy a handgun on your lunchbreak and sell it to someone you meet in the parking lot, not a straw sale but any face-face sale is perfectly legal. Im sure there are people that would drop someone from across the stream and, hey, I sold that gun along time ago.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Apex Predator said:


> The post was started for West Branch not Berlin. I appreciate your views and hopes and do realize my limitations. Again Ill say that I have no CCW, I have to Open Carry. My 45 is on my hip outside if the shirt. It is always racked and ready to go. Pull Point Squeeze. Nothing but a grip safety. I do have to admit tho that I am lazy. I do not ever want to have to shoot anyone but Id rather shoot than fight. I have things to do later and dont need to be tired for them.


Doh! Thanks! Yes - West Branch, not Berlin.

Sounds like you have a good, available setup. I hope you never have to use it.


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## MIKE53ALI (Apr 21, 2010)

Tokugawa said:


> Doh! Thanks! Yes - West Branch, not Berlin.
> 
> Sounds like you have a good, available setup. I hope you never have to use it.




an xd45! lol


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