# Rod Suggestions Needed!!!



## BiteMyLine (Sep 7, 2006)

I bought a 8'6", 5wt, Dogwood Canyon Combo about 3 years ago as my first setup other than the walmart special as a kid chasing gills. I plan on setting up a young cousin of mine with this fly rod to get him into the art of fly fishing. I have upgraded the reel to a Orvis Battenkill Mid Arbor(Dark Olive), which I love and plan on pairing to the new rod. I mosly throw bugger and clouser style flies for fiesty creek smallies, but hit the trout waters occasionally as well. Also I enjoy chasing gills and crappie too. This rod must handle bulkier patterns, as well as more delicate flies such as a dry or nymph. 

So here's my criteria.
- 5wt, 8'6" or shorter, and would prefer a 2-piece
- Med-Fast or Fast Action with a good back bone
- Preferably Under $300

So far I have looked online at the Orvis TLS Power Matrix, St. Croix Avid, G Loomis Experience, Winston Vapor, and a few others. I think I'm leaning towards the St. Croix Avid.


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

the winston vapor is a decent little rod, kinda surprised me. also the lower end sages might fit the bill.
I would suggest trying a 9ft, longer rods will have more power, both casting and fighting the fish. they also offer more line control, and personally I dont think they are any different, they may be even better, in places where there are lots of trees and tight areas. I am also curious about the preference for a 2pc, there is no disadvantage to a 4pc rod.
anyway, to the real question. the tfo ticr might be worth looking at, a bit more of a club than I like for dry flies it is a great streamer rod and will fish nymphs well. The redington CPX might be the best rod for 300 for what you want and comes in a 8'6"5wt.
the other option is to go to a bass style rod like the redington predator, but thats a jump to a 6wt. TFO also came out with the clouser rod but I have not casted it yet, but it is apparently a streamer rod, hence the clouser.

hope that helps


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2010)

i just bought an avid 6wt, 4pc. on ebay, new. i am hoping to use it on smallmouth bass this summer. check there daily for deals. i paid 152.00 for it.


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## BiteMyLine (Sep 7, 2006)

riverKing said:


> I am also curious about the preference for a 2pc, there is no disadvantage to a 4pc rod.


This is Very simple. I have always been a very big advocate that with any rod, more pieces equal less feel and less overall strength. Although in this case I may try a 4 piece since fly fishing is much different than traditional. Plus it is hard to find a good 2-piece.

I'm aware fly fishing is a completely different beast and a 4pc may have its place but no way in HE(Double Hockey Stick) will I ever own another 2 piece rod for a baitcaster or spinning setup. I have had rods bust at the joints on more than one occasion.


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

ok i understand where you are coming from now. I agree with spinning and baitcasting tackle its single piece all the way under 8ft. however with the new fly rods you should have to worry about them breaking at the joints unless they begin to come loose. so just put some wax on them and check them if somthing begins to feel odd in the cast. a few years ago the 4pc rods would would throw the tip section off, but now that doesnt happen very often. those rods are fitted together really well.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

I have two St Croix Avids, a 7'9" 3wt and a 9' 5wt. The 5wt is my "do all" setup. I've done everything from bass to bluegills to trout to crappies on it. My only complaint is not really a complaint, just a minor regret...I wish I had gotten this in a 4-piece rod. My 3wt and my Cabelas Traditional 7wt are both 4-piece rods. Speaking as someone who travels a lot in my vehicle to fly fish, either to WV, Erie tribs, or even local lakes, 4-piece rods can be packed virtually anywhere. I am looking at a fishing kayak right now, and my 4-piece rod tubes will actually fit in one of the sealed cargo areas of the kayak during transport. Now that is what I call convenience! On one of my WV trips when I hiked a good ways back into the wilderness, I strapped my 3wt in the rod tube to my sling pack and hiked in that way. I think the 4-piece rods now are pretty good quality, I have had no issues with mine. And I even landed a nearly 4lb largemouth on the little 3wt last summer, it had more than enough power to handle the runs and protect the light tippet.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

BiteMyLine said:


> I bought a 8'6", 5wt, Dogwood Canyon Combo about 3 years ago as my first setup other than the walmart special as a kid chasing gills. I plan on setting up a young cousin of mine with this fly rod to get him into the art of fly fishing. I have upgraded the reel to a Orvis Battenkill Mid Arbor(Dark Olive), which I love and plan on pairing to the new rod. I mosly throw bugger and clouser style flies for fiesty creek smallies, but hit the trout waters occasionally as well. Also I enjoy chasing gills and crappie too. This rod must handle bulkier patterns, as well as more delicate flies such as a dry or nymph.
> 
> So here's my criteria.
> - 5wt, 8'6" or shorter, and would prefer a 2-piece
> ...


It is impossible to find a rod for fine presentation and bulky flies in one.
But you will be struggling with anything less than 6 to carry the heavier bug.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

oarfish said:


> It is impossible to find a rod for fine presentation and bulky flies in one.
> But you will be struggling with anything less than 6 to carry the heavier bug.


Just to expand on this, when I was casting Clousers and bulkier flies on my 5wt, it was sort of "chuck and duck" and not real graceful. When I bought the 7wt, I found out it casts those same flies about as well as my 3wt casts a #18 ant pattern. When I first got into fly fishing, I was thinking one rod/reel can do it all. Now, I own a 3wt, 5wt, and 7wt, and use each one situationally like I used a spinng outfit for light lures and a baitcaster for heavy stuff and cranks.


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## bigduck10 (Feb 15, 2009)

I am with Riverking. I have been very happy with the TFO product. I have a 10,8, 6 and 3wgt TFO and have been very happy. The 3wgt is a 2 piece, the rest are 4 piece. Nice price point.
One of these days I am going to fork over the cash for a Orvis Hellois(Spelling). I think I will get the 8wgt for Steelhead.


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

I look into a Scott Rod, Best damn rod there is! Unless you spend more then its Winston and Loomis.


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## dpalm203 (Aug 3, 2006)

I'm with Flyfish Dog, I have three "low-end" Scott rods - I love the peace of mind that comes with a lifetime warranty.


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## crkwader (Nov 7, 2008)

Check out the Scott A3, best low end rod there is(IMO), and they even offer a "warm water" version.


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## Ajax (May 16, 2008)

Like BiteMyLine I've been looking at a shorter warm water creek rod for those tight to reach places. I'm looking for a 4wt but maybe a 5wt will do better cause I want to throw streamers. I wish the Redington Predator came in a lighter weight. Is a 4wt too light for smaller bass and streamer throwing? I want something for small ponds and creek throwing.


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## crkwader (Nov 7, 2008)

Ajax said:


> Like BiteMyLine I've been looking at a shorter warm water creek rod for those tight to reach places. I'm looking for a 4wt but maybe a 5wt will do better cause I want to throw streamers. I wish the Redington Predator came in a lighter weight. Is a 4wt too light for smaller bass and streamer throwing? I want something for small ponds and creek throwing.


A 4wt is not too light, you just have to get something with a little more backbone. I use a 9ft 4wt Winston LTX for all my creekin'.


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

Yea you can do it with a 4wt but a 6wt is more better suited than anything. If you want to use weighted clousers and crayfish patterns then the 6wt is perfect! I have the 6wt predator and is a good rod but not like a Scott A3 or the older A2 &E2 series though.Every once in awhile I use my 3wt E2 for them but most using smallish flies in low water.


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## Coot (Jan 27, 2006)

Watch eBay for Orvis Silver label rods.

I have a bunch of these and I really like them for the money.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

Many cannot see that it is the line that carries the fly not the rod. If you have a fast 4 weight rod that will cast 6 line, then it might work.
Otherwise the 4 weight line will collapse, casting the air resistant bug or a heavy weight Clouser when fishing a calm day. Don't even try windy days.


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## crkwader (Nov 7, 2008)

hmmm

I guess others have said differently, I will say though I have no issues throwing 1/0 bass bugs and size 2 clousers.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

That's Ok we are all cut up in the rod decision fiasco.
I think lots of us do like the faster rods but unfortunately those are more expensive. If you guys have a wimpy rod and you want a fast crisp one, just underline it and you got a "new rod"
For example cast 4 or 5 weight line with a 6 weight rod.
That way you can still achieve the original goal of having one rod for rough casting of bulk and delicate presentation of tiny nymphs.


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## BiteMyLine (Sep 7, 2006)

So what is everybody's opinion on length and flex in regards to ability. IE...Such as a shorter yet faster rod is better for roll cast(???etc). Still looking, no winner as of now, and still trying to do some more research.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

Longer rod will roll cast better and farther. Short rods are really only practical in small steams with overhanging trees. Not everyone is fan of fast stiff rods so you should cast fast (tipflex) or slow (midflex) to see what works for you.
If you buy a midflex you can "downline" it and you will have a tipfex rod with a good backbone for tiring out big steelies. You can also "upline" a tipflex and you will have a midflex or slower rod.


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

I can roll casts just as well on a 6 1/2 rod as a 9 ft rod so it is dependent on how well you can do it and your gear . A moderate fast action will definetly roll casts better than a fast action rod. It is better overline but NOT underlining a rod aspecially it will casts like crap no doubt. Use your equipment right. I would stay away from faster action rods unless you are a very good caster. A longer rod is more forgiven but if you plan on fishing from a canoe or kayak I like 7 1/2 - 8 ft rods.


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## Ajax (May 16, 2008)

Thanks for all the insight. I have a 7 ft. Eagle Claw Featherweight fly rod 5-6wt that I will probably use for the small creeks then. I just wanted the best possible presentation in tight quarters. I have this sweet stretch of small creek habitat that I want to fish this summer. I hope I didn't deviate away from BiteMyLines original questions.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

Flyfish Dog said:


> I can roll casts just as well on a 6 1/2 rod as a 9 ft rod so it is dependent on how well you can do it and your gear . A moderate fast action will definetly roll casts better than a fast action rod. It is better overline but NOT underlining a rod aspecially it will casts like crap no doubt. Use your equipment right. I would stay away from faster action rods unless you are a very good caster. A longer rod is more forgiven but if you plan on fishing from a canoe or kayak I like 7 1/2 - 8 ft rods.


You gonna have to convince people about the short rod for roll casting. Peple who can make 100 +' rollcasts with their long slow action spay rods. Longer will cast farther regardless of who has the rod. That is true for overhead or roll casting as well.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

If you are a dedicated fly fisherman then I would do as outlined by TheCream 
and plan on three or even possibly four rods of different weight. I would start with a 9ft 5wt and start saving for a 10ft 7wt. I have a old but beautiful custom built fiberglas in 7.5ft 4wt, a 9ft 5wt Avid, a 10ft 7wt Avid and a 
9.5ft 8wt Primier. As I pursue all methods of fishing, I don't invest in the high end flyrods. If it was flyrod only, I would probably step up to the St. Croix Legend series. I also feel the four piece flyrods are fine for freshwater fishing.
You have a number of excellent comments to help you make a decision. Good luck and enjoy.


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## BiteMyLine (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks guys. Lots of good information. Looks like the rest is up to personal preference, and just finding a good deal.


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## crkwader (Nov 7, 2008)

oarfish said:


> You gonna have to convince people about the short rod for roll casting. Peple who can make 100 +' rollcasts with their long slow action spay rods. Longer will cast farther regardless of who has the rod. That is true for overhead or roll casting as well.


Clearly you've never seen Lefty Kreh cast an entire fly line and some backing with the tip of a fly rod. Still one of the most memorable things I have seen in my short life.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

crkwader said:


> Clearly you've never seen Lefty Kreh cast an entire fly line and some backing with the tip of a fly rod. Still one of the most memorable things I have seen in my short life.


Lefty can outcast most of us with a broomstick, but he will only use an 8' or longer rod when have to make repeated long casts on the flats . He is no fool.


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

I am not even concerned how well paid pros do but with new technology going into rod building latel the point is moot. You really dont need a 9 ftr to do it any more. Another thing is no one casts the same so it is important to find your most comfortable sweet spot and go from there. Eventhough that is hard to do since you have to buy it or cast it on a lawn which really does not make it will do just as well on the waters. Making long casts is moot at best and not even neccessary IMO as you most likely beating yourself catching fishs in between.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

Flyfish Dog said:


> I am not even concerned how well paid pros do but with new technology going into rod building latel the point is moot. You really dont need a 9 ftr to do it any more. Another thing is no one casts the same so it is important to find your most comfortable sweet spot and go from there. Eventhough that is hard to do since you have to buy it or cast it on a lawn which really does not make it will do just as well on the waters. Making long casts is moot at best and not even neccessary IMO as you most likely beating yourself catching fishs in between.


 You are talking like a person who is limited his fishing to small creeks and small ponds.
If that is true then you are correct. For the rest of us who are casting for long Hrs. in the Fla flats in waders in waist high water we use 9' rods 8-9 weight. 
The wind is always blowing and the retrieve is fast so your arms will tire out soon. At that point you better know how to cast with both hands to keep up with you buddies or call it quits. You would not survive there with a short whipper.
There is many examples of the benefit of a longer rod I could mention, so that we wont mislead the person who is asking for advice.


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## brhoff (Sep 28, 2006)

Just for kicks, try and throw a few bugs on a TFO Lefty Signature in a 9' 6 wt.

I went kicking tires a couple years ago with needs pretty much exactly as yours and did side to side casting with several rods of the same ilk but higher priced and truly prefered the TFO.

The rod is pretty much a workhorse rod that'll do well here on Ohio streams and rivers...it's a tad longer than you want but for smaller (tighter stream)work you'll eventually just have to buy another rod anyway.

If interested, Troutlet sells an Eagle Claw 7' 3 wt (Im7) that is a way under rated rod and is excellent for small stream work...for 300 you could have the TFO, the Eagle Claw and still have enough for reels and backing!


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## Intracoastal (Sep 12, 2009)

The st croix imperial is a fantastic fast action rod for $170 (cabelas). They offer an 8ft and an 8.5ft 5-weight both 2 piece with rod tube. It is a great looking rod too. A perfect starter fast-action rod.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Intracoastal said:


> The st croix imperial is a fantastic fast action rod for $170 (cabelas). They offer an 8ft and an 8.5ft 5-weight both 2 piece with rod tube. It is a great looking rod too. A perfect starter fast-action rod.


One of my fishing buddies just bought a St Croix Imperial and loves it. His dad tried it out (budding new fly fisher) and also loved it, so he bought the same rod for himself!


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

oarfish, LMFAO! I have fished Florida a lot and I probablyfish lot more than you and I dont just fish goldfi$h ponds like you! I dont think you know what the hell you talking about! We all see where you from Westlake, where there are a bunch snobish upclass assholes who flaunts their dirty money by breaking backs of the working class! It is time to for you to get off your high horse before it's get to the point of beating a dead horse.


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## meckhardt (Jun 5, 2009)

I picked up a Sage Flight 9' 5wt late last year from MRO. 

I cast the Sage Vantage, Sage Flight, Redington RedFly 2, TFO Pro, TFO Finesse 7' 9", and the Orvis Clearwater II. 

After spending an hour out back I thought the Sage Flight was far and away the best rod of the bunch, unfortunately also the most expensive at $330, I started out committed to buying a less expensive rod but it was really no contest. Though I will say that the shorter TFO Finesse was my second choice and I'd still wouldn't mind picking one up at some point to use on water like the Mad where power is less necessary. My least favorite was the Sage Vantage which runs about $100 more than the TFOs, it just felt complete dead.


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## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

Flyfish Dog said:


> oarfish, LMFAO! I have fished Florida a lot and I probablyfish lot more than you and I dont just fish goldfi$h ponds like you! I dont think you know what the hell you talking about! We all see where you from Westlake, where there are a bunch snobish upclass assholes who flaunts their dirty money by breaking backs of the working class! It is time to for you to get off your high horse before it's get to the point of beating a dead horse.


We have the beautiful Lake Erie here near Westlake, so we enjoy it. We also like our City that was built by hard working middleclass folks, rated one of the best in Ohio.
We will refuse to take any advice from a washed out lowlife from WV. This is an Ohio website and last time I checked there was no requirement where you had to be a looser living in your momma's garage to have posting privileges on these forums. It is because of people like the taxpayers of Westlake and other great cities throughout the USA that morons like you can collect food stamps and actually have a computer. When are you going to have some respect and stop harassing people who are actually contributing information to these forums? At one point in your life you will have realize that this is not all about you, but rather the great sport of fishing.


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## Intracoastal (Sep 12, 2009)

Wow. That's a lot of stereotyping, and even more inaccuracy. Not long before administration shuts this one down.


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

I've been moving into slower rods. 'glass ones mostly for much of my fishing. except steelhead on the big rivers where feeling the take is necessary. got a couple of steffens which are a more moderate action glass. and recently picked up a mcfarland prototype. mcfarlands are slower than the steffens. as they say, "_a slower stroke satisfies_".


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## fishon (Apr 20, 2004)

can't we all get along.....


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