# Controlled hunt process needs to change...



## ohfisherman (Aug 16, 2007)

And yet another year of this so-called "lottery" It's all a scam, a huge money grab by the state. Want to make it fair? Make the hunts non-transferable. I bet if they did an audit of all the transfered permits a bunch of these "hunters" have never shot a deer or even purchased a deer tag. Totally amazed that people are not seeing the big picture here. Money talks and the state only cares about the bottom line. I would like to dare the state to try one year with non-transferable permits and watch the numbers go down. Cannot wait for the sourgrape posts to roll in. Us hunters that do not load the system with wives/kids/non-hunting friends are fed up with it. BTW, I have gotten drawn in the past, I do go every year thanks to some people who have an 'extra' permit...


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## bigwayned (Jul 7, 2015)

I think they should go to a point system for draw hunts. I've stopped applying, tired of wasting money over the matter. I have never been drawn for a controlled hunt, yet I know a couple that gets draw hunts every year. Don't seem right. They are not doing anything shady to get drawn, just extremely lucky I guess. I think after someone is picked, they should not be allowed to transfer permits, or be eligible for that area again for 3/4 years of unsuccessful applications . This would allow the state to still get their money and spread the opportunities around. I don't mind paying the little bit of cash to apply as long as the chance to get a draw once in a while is there. I think once a hunter as earned enough points , (paid for enough unsuccessful applications), they should be moved towards the top of the list.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Ohio is just lazy with regard to this. It would not be difficult to create a points system that gives better odds the more one applies. Other states do it but not us. Too busy working to eliminate the deer from public lands I guess.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

I have only drawn a hunt once. You don't see me getting on here and crying about it. The only thing that I would change is that if you are drawn and waste the spot that you can not ever apply again.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Didn't see anyone crying but did see a guy putting down fellow sportsmen for giving an opinion. I would rather listen to crying.


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## Jon Yenulonis (Feb 9, 2014)

I have been entering these drawings since about 1980 or so. Back when your money was actually refunded IF YOU DIDN'T GET DRAWN! I have been lucky enough to have hunted "most" years, due a lot to friends and such.

I disagree with some points of your argument, agree on others. Point system would be good. It would give extra opportunity to guys who haven't been drawn ever, or at least a while. Non-transferable would be bad. What if you got drawn, and it happens to be the day your only daughter is getting married? Do we need to go there? And actually the rules say that you can't barter or trade, but it's not enforced.

My gripe would be - once you are drawn for "A" hunt, you're not eligible for another in the entire state lottery. Do you ever look at the list and see some guys who get drawn for three or four individual hunts?

At least they still require entrants to be licensed. That's a good thing.

Jon


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

UNCLEMIKE said:


> Ohio is just lazy with regard to this. It would not be difficult to create a points system that gives better odds the more one applies. Other states do it but not us. Too busy working to eliminate the deer from public lands I guess.


how would you go about doing a point system for Ottawa or Honda TRC hunts when the odds are over 100:1 of getting drawn.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Flathead76 said:


> how would you go about doing a point system for Ottawa or Honda TRC hunts when the odds are over 100:1 of getting drawn.


If you apply and don't get picked the next year you get two applications/tokens in the electronic draw. The next year three and so on. The more years that go by the more chance of have of getting picked. It wouldn't help much for the type drawing you noted until several years have gone by but some edge is better than nothing.


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

yea you have to enter your ma and grandma,and everboby else you know with a s.s. # to actually get drawn. i have been to ottowa and magee quite a few times. and did not do well at all,mostly because of skybusters that clear the birds out and keep them out.


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## buymore (Jul 29, 2010)

I've had my year or two of disappointment, but I apply for three or four hunts every year and have never transferred. I have been offered a transfer from a friend who cold not make the hunt they were drawn for and gladly took that date and was grateful. It was a bad date for them. I seem to get something at least once every two or three years, but I do apply for at least three every year. I applied for the Castalia Hatchery fishing twice and got it the second time also. All being said, I buy gun raffles tickets all the time and consider that a "donation" every time because I have NEVER won a raffle! Maybe I'm lucky at Controlled Hunt drawings and terribly unlucky in gun raffles! Not sure there's anything to it other than it's a computer generated random drawing. Giving points would make it not random. I've seen guys get drawn over and over for random drug tests at work and I haven't had on in three years. Seems odd, but since done by an outside source I trust that it's completely random.


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

You must have a current hunting license to apply. Now maybe some of those folks don't deer hunt? IMOP most of the hunts anymore are not that great anyhow. And willing to bet you can hunt some of them and never see a deer. So yes, another way to make money.


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## ohfisherman (Aug 16, 2007)

Did not really think I was crying and please point out where I bashed fellow sportsmen. It just seems that the system is flawed. I have spoken to people with the ODNR years ago and they have patterned 1 credit card using the same IP address for a total of 14 different names within a span of a half an hour. That information came from a wildlife investagator who called me back after contacting a credit card company to pull batches of numbers. That is why a while back they put in the little blurb about inputing somebody elses information. There is also a few times I have seen people trading cash or other for hunts. I have also called on male hunters being drawn for women only hunts. I fact check before I post/bash/cry. Maybe if more people refused to question the process that the state uses it would be a little more fair. I stand by my prior statement--make the hunts not transferable and watch the application numbers go down. No more putting in your non hunting friends.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

I wouldn't call it unfair. If someone wins a lottery ticket because they were willing to buy 100 of them and you were only willing to buy 1, is that unfair? 

I never win the drawings, but I refuse to spend all that money on them either. I buy a castalia chance for the kids and a few waterfowl hunts for myself. If I get deawn, great. If not, oh well. If the guys who get drawn every year want to dump hundreds of dollars to have a better chance to hunt these spots (that aren't any better than my other spots anyway) then more power to them. It isn't that important to me though.

I agree that if they weren't transferable, sales would drop tremendously. However, if they weren't transferable, half of the winning drawings wouldn't be utilized and wasted because of dates that don't work with their schedules. 

I've hunted ducks in just about every state owned wildlife area up there now. You know where I've had my best success? Metzger marsh wildlife area. It's wide open public, with all the idiots, and no draw process. You don't have to get drawn to kill ducks.


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## Dan (Jul 16, 2007)

I think the system could be improved by incorporating a point system. If done properly the state could still bring in some revenue with a point system that rewards frequent applications but also will reward applicants with an occasional hunt.


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## DLC (May 3, 2007)

I just wish they would take all the money the make from it and better manage the lands the state has; plant food in the waterfowl spots, and purchase more public land so people have places to hunt.


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## bigwayned (Jul 7, 2015)

I don't think they should issue marriage license during hunting season. Lol.


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## slashbait (Jun 26, 2008)

First. Off there are way fewer hunts. Maggie only first 2 weeks used to be whole first half. And both Ravens and plumbrook less than 1/4 of weekends they used to hunt. We're the system gets beat is were guys get senior citizens who get free license to apply in mass numbers and then transfer to self or trade. There's a sight with a section just for trading. No a few that have been in Magee and plumbrook every year. Trust me no regrets here been t Maggie , plumbrook and Ravens and wood easily rather spend the time in woods else were


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## ohfisherman (Aug 16, 2007)

beaver said:


> I wouldn't call it unfair. If someone wins a lottery ticket because they were willing to buy 100 of them and you were only willing to buy 1, is that unfair?
> 
> I never win the drawings, but I refuse to spend all that money on them either. I buy a castalia chance for the kids and a few waterfowl hunts for myself. If I get deawn, great. If not, oh well. If the guys who get drawn every year want to dump hundreds of dollars to have a better chance to hunt these spots (that aren't any better than my other spots anyway) then more power to them. It isn't that important to me though.
> 
> ...


Buying 1 ticket for yourself is how you are supposed to do it. My problem is with the people putting in other people who never hunt...(wives, neighbors, coworkers...)


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

Seeing as how you have to have a license to apply now, I doubt that happens much anymore. Before, nobody cared to pay a few bucks to enter a buddy's name who didn't hunt. Not so much when you have to buy them a license too.


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## ohfisherman (Aug 16, 2007)

beaver said:


> Seeing as how you have to have a license to apply now, I doubt that happens much anymore. Before, nobody cared to pay a few bucks to enter a buddy's name who didn't hunt. Not so much when you have to buy them a license too.


somebody i heard of spent $600.00 this year...


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

If someone is willing to spend $600 on a couple chances on some mediocre at best hunts, then more power to them. I don't dislike them for it, I feel sorry for them.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I think maybe the purpose, (ODNR )of the controlled deer hunts is missed by some.

These hunts are not to provide an Ohio hunter with a great hunting experience, they are to reduce the deer herd in these controlled environments using hunters as the tool to accomplish that goal.

As long as there are willing participants every year to accomplish that goal there is no reason to change anything. These hunts are doing exactly what they are intended to do.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Lundy said:


> I think maybe the purpose, (ODNR )of the controlled deer hunts is missed by some.
> 
> These hunts are not to provide an Ohio hunter with a great hunting experience, they are to reduce the deer herd in these controlled environments using hunters as the tool to accomplish that goal.
> 
> As long as there are willing participants every year to accomplish that goal there is no reason to change anything. These hunts are doing exactly what they are intended to do.


Very good point. However the unintended but just as real result is increased disrespect of the division by hunters unhappy with the system. Not sure this is a good thing for the division of wildlife. That is unless they just don't care about hunter views. That would be my take on it.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

UncleMike

Even with an experience that is less than some may desire some facts can not be overlooked

1 .There is no shortage of applicants for these hunts.
2. The ODNR has never represented them to be anything other than what they are
3. No one is required to apply for these hunts
4. These are not really "hunts" anyway, at least not by most hunters definition
5. The vast, vast majority of "hunters" have never applied for a controlled hunt.
6. Those that are disappointed might need to adjust their expectations to the reality of these hunts
7. See #1
8. See # 3

There is little doubt that these population reduction hunts could be managed in a way to improve the quality of the experience for the hunter both with the application process and the actual hunt. However I see little incentive for anyone to enact such change when there are always way more applicants than there are available spots and again, the primary reason these hunts exist at all is for population reduction.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Lundy said:


> UncleMike
> 
> Even with an experience that is less than some may desire some facts can not be overlooked
> 
> ...


The only incentive would be to consider the wants of the "tools" as you correctly stated hunters are seen as. I take care of my tools and they serve me well. Abuse your tools and you may wish you had taken better care of them. The state ofohio takes hunters for granted. This needs to change.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Lundy said:


> UncleMike
> 
> Even with an experience that is less than some may desire some facts can not be overlooked
> 
> ...


Both # 1 and # 3 would apply in a state such as Colorado. Yet they use preference points. Difference being they encourage and show respect for hunters needs and wants. Ohio not so much I say. No one is required to hunt at all anywhere so that argument holds no sway with me. At least we agree then are not true hunts. They once were a better opportunity to score than out on your own. Due to herd reductions in most of these areas this is no longer the case. I applied for one only and could care less that I was not picked the past several years. Just pointing out the state could do so much better with a little more effort. I sure agree with # 6 as the state has shown over and over that the hunters views are ignored in Ohio. Don't like it don't apply, don't like it don't hunt at all. What a way to encourage positive views of the DOW.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

How has the state shown that your views are ignored?


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

Also, the difference in Colorado and ohio is that Colorado isn't trying to reduce a herd in an overpopulated area. Colorado is using their herd to make more money. Would you rather ohio charge what Colorado charges for a draw and then give preference points? I sure wouldn't pay those prices to kill deer here. There's thousands of acres of public land and plenty of private land to be had in ohio. Deer aren't hard to kill. I don't get why people get so up in arms about them.


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## ohfisherman (Aug 16, 2007)

I would rather see a system that makes the permits non transferable. Some guys don't have private property or a bunch of money to put in all their friends who don't hunt. Either way it's a flawed system as it stands now...


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

No its a perfect system if you think about it. The issue us that people misunderstand the purpose of the drawings. They aren't to give hunters a special chance to hunt deer. The purpose is to reduce the deer herd in areas that they can't jusy let people hunt all the time. Then somewhere along the way, someone had the smart idea to make some money at it while they were doing it. So the purpose is to reduce the herd, and make money. In my opinion, the system works wonderful in that aspect. 

With that being said, I realize that not everyone had private land to hunt, but that's life. However, honestly it's not hard to obtain permission for private hunting land with some effort. Furthermore, it isn't that hard to kill deer on public lands with some effort either. I am fortunate enough to have private land access now, but for around 10 years or so I was pretty much bound to public land with everyone else, and I never at tag soup.

Deer are not hard to kill in Ohio. So if someone else is hard up enough to spend all that money, and go through the hassle of entering other people, I have no problem with it. In fact, I feel sorry for them that they have to resort to that.

Btw... I have never been drawn for anything except a youth castalia trout and some beaver trapping permits. I have applied for a lot of waterfowl permits and have never been selected. I haven't applied for the deer permits. There are plenty of places to hunt deer for "free".


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

Maybe where you live but not where I'm from.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

If you're in south east ohio, than you're in my neck of the woods. I stand by my statement.


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

Yes I am and I'm glad you don't have any trouble finding a place to hunt (private I mean, too many idiots on public nowadays), but that's not the case for most. TV and the Internet is to blame for the competition we face in this state today. With the prices of real estate, unless you inherit a piece of land, or just fall into it it's hard to raise a family and own a hunting spot too. Farmers lease their land and you can't blame them for that, then because of the "advertising" out of state hunters buy a large portion of the small farms we hunted as kids. I'm speakinging from personal experience from 25 years of hunting Ohio, it's changed a lot and opportunities are slowly fading away.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

There are no deer in south east ohio! Try somewhere else


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

There are no deer in south east ohio! Try somewhere else


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

There are no deer in south east ohio! Try somewhere else


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## Saugernut (Apr 22, 2013)

That's what I've been saying for years.


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## buymore (Jul 29, 2010)

I like the "transfer" option is so people drawn for a specific date can sign off if they can't go....I realize that people were taking advantage of that and applying for friends and family, but the ODNR did the best they could to eliminate that by making it so applicant has to have a valid hunting license. I'm sure there are still people taking advantage of friends and family members that have licenses, but I wouldn't think people are buying licenses just to get an application on a drawing? I think any other methods they could employ would just cost them money and people would still think they were getting screwed if they didn't win. I'm not sure about a points system....I never win gun raffles but I don't expect to get extra chances just because I never win? It's a drawing and I trust it. I've gone several years without getting one, but I apply for 4-5 of the hunts each year, so I usually get one every other year or sometimes I have two years in between, but I've never felt slighted or cheated....just felt unlucky!


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