# Quit the arguing. SCIENCE proves hot water = death!



## MuskieJim

Mark Thorpe posted this on his Facebook wall.

Excerpt from published scientific paper (the muskie catch-and-release study aka Project Noble Beast).

"The present study revealed that increases in water temperature caused significant increases in blood glucose and plasma potassium concentrations for muskellunge relative to angling at cooler temperatures....The observed glucose concentration increases may be attributed to increased standard metabolic rates that rise as water temperatures warm (Dickson and Kramer, 1971; Cooke et al., 2001)....This particular response [elevated potassium concentrations] is of interest because potassium cations influence nerve function (Hidaka and Toida, 1969; Abe and Oka, 1999) and elevated potassium levels (i.e., hyperkalemia) can contribute to cardiac failure in mammals (Guyton, 1981; Lindinger, 1995)....Because most muskellunge angling occurs in the warm summer months (Kerr, 2007a), the potentially lethal effects of increased potassium concentrations and their relation to cardiac failure is of concern. Evidence from this study clearly indicates the propensity for physiological disturbance to increase with increasing water temperatures. Therefore, it is advisable to be cautious of the magnitude of stress imposed on muskellunge (e.g., severely limit air exposure and angling durations) when angling during periods of high water temperatures.

As of yesterday 37 dead!!!!!! Dead muskies don't breed"


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## Rivergetter

Put a season on the angler then. PETA will live that. 


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## MuskieJim

Cannot put a season on temperature. Or common sense for that matter.


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## onthewater

With all the arguing and reports of dead muskies and this trend of hotter than normal summers I would also be concerned with the DOW cutting way back on the Muskie stocking program since they are short money. There was actually a threat of this happening a year or two ago. Muskie stocking is quite expensive as the fish need to be fed live minnows and are held in the ponds much longer than the other fish they raise. Add the fact that there are not that many Muskie fisherman out there for the money it cost to produce them and ......
Elmer Heyob doesn't work for them anymore and he is the one who was responsible for making the Muskie program as big as it was. I like to Muskie fish occaisionally and hope it never comes to this. 
When you tell people they can't fish from late June to Sept. or else, well, not good. A lot of people do the bulk of there fishing then as the days are long enough to get out after work.
Summer mortality isn't the biggest problem on the lake I fish (Alum) anyway, it's losing fish thru the spillway during water releases.


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## crittergitter

onthewater said:


> With all the arguing and reports of dead muskies and this trend of hotter than normal summers I would also be concerned with the DOW cutting way back on the Muskie stocking program since they are short money. There was actually a threat of this happening a year or two ago. Muskie stocking is quite expensive as the fish need to be fed live minnows and are held in the ponds much longer than the other fish they raise. Add the fact that there are not that many Muskie fisherman out there for the money it cost to produce them and ......
> Elmer Heyob doesn't work for them anymore and he is the one who was responsible for making the Muskie program as big as it was. I like to Muskie fish occaisionally and hope it never comes to this.
> When you tell people they can't fish from late June to Sept. or else, well, not good. A lot of people do the bulk of there fishing then as the days are long enough to get out after work.
> Summer mortality isn't the biggest problem on the lake I fish (Alum) anyway, it's losing fish thru the spillway during water releases.


Pure hogwash! Why is that when people start saying more should be done by the DOW to improve the musky fishery someone always says, "they could shut it down since it so expensive". That's BS! There are about 5 clubs that raise money to feed the fingerlings. Outside of that, most of the funding for the DOW comes from license and tag sales plus the money from the Pittman/Robertson Act(excise tax on all fishing and hunting gear sold). The state CAN'T touch that money. So, if the musky stocking program was EVER cancelled, the DOW better be able to show me where they are spending all that money because they're still getting it. I don't see any drastic reduction in license and tag sales. A new Cabelas going in here in Columbus so all that tax money stays in Ohio now. The program is NOT in any jeopardy of being cancelled PERIOD!

Now, it is not up to the DOW to close the season due to hot water temps. That is not reasonable. I actually give them credit as a state organization for working with the clubs and actively seeking ways to improve things. However, that doesn't mean that constructive discussion about it among passionate anglers is a bad thing. 

The nights are getting longer and that helps. We sure could use a couple of good strong cold fronts.


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## Mason52

I'm not as upset with people fishin in warm water as I am with the short stockings we've had the last two years. I mean think about it, every program lake is out 2000 +- fish and who knows what's to come this year. And as I have said on other threads they do have a certain amount of delayed mortality figured into the numbers they stock. 



As of yesterday 37 dead!!!!!! Dead muskies don't breed" 

Just curious about this Jim


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## onthewater

Critter, calm down. I never said I want them to reduce it. I hope they never do. But the DOW is having major money problems now. Yea, they have a crap load of money coming in but it costs a heck of a lot more than it used to to pay for everything. They are looking to make cuts everywhere. And there was talk a while back that the Muskie program could take a hit due to that a short time ago. I heard this from a guy who works for the DOW in fisheries. May be why the clubs stepped up with funding to feed the bait fish.
I hope I'm wrong but as a waterfowler I have seen management efforts on our Wildlife Areas fall considerably from what they used to be with money being the main cause.


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## Legend killer

Most of the clubs in OH fish for muskies in the summer. I think its hypocritical to raise money to help with stockings to support the muskellunge population and turn around and kill them in the summer.


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## Burks

I just find this whole thing a big joke. Present your facts and quit arguing. You aren't going to change peoples minds by name calling and.acting childish. Just present the facts a shut up. Its embarrassing that some of you are fully grown men resorting to high school tactics.


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## Snakecharmer

What is the 37 dead muskies? Ones you counted? One ODNR counted Ones thoughout the USA ? This year? Since you were born? West Branch? Leesville? St Clair? Please elaborate.....


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## Burks

I'd actually fully support a ban on summer muskie fishing. Big fine. Heavy enforcement. All fines to go back into muskie resources.

And its not hard to enforce. Yes, muskie can be accidental catches. But how many bass fisherman run heavy leaders, braided line that's 50lb+, and giant tackle? Its fairly obvious...


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## Catproinnovations

Shut up and fish if you don't like it don't fish that's when I can fish so I do I'm a Muskie fisherman that's when I catch the most so I fish it's not against any law!!!! Your all a bunch of pre madonnas and self righteous!!!!! I'm sick of hearing about all this make your own decision since its all about " morals" and I'm such a horrible person for fishing right now.... Grow up!!! 90 percent of the "Muskie clubs" have tournaments this time of year that support Muskie fishing so you all keep throwin crap around its gonna make them resent you!!!!! These clubs have supported you for years and now their your worst enemy doesn't make sense.... And Elmer heyob has spoken at ohmc events in the dead of August supporting the musky fishing in years past at the piedmont tourney to be exact so you tell me..... Sounds like all of you just need too chill and fish or not 


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## KaGee

I don't know why you guys can't discuss this in a mature manner.


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## MuskieJim

"As of yesterday 37 dead!!!!!! Dead muskies don't breed"

Yes these are fish counted by Mark Thorpe on the waters he fishes near Detroit Metro. I personally only know of 4 muskies, all from West Branch, that were eminent victims of warm water fishing. One was 46" and was barely alive on the surface when we passed it on my buddy's jet boat. We worked the fish for 30 minutes before it went belly up. The other was low 40's but had some mouth rash and was clearly hooked recently, floating dead on the surface. I also know of two 50+ inch muskies from West Branch that were caught, both kept as they died after being released. 

I do not understand why some people got so upset from this post? It was not directed at anyone and I just find the article interesting. I'm not a biologist, but the fact is oxygen levels decrease as the temperature rises. When we catch a muskie, they need time to recover which usually occurs boatside and on the surface, which has the least amount of oxygen as its the hottest water in the lake. During a battle, muskies build up lactic acid in their bodies, and if the conditions don't allow them to appropriately recover it ends in death. The hardest fact to consider in this equation is that it doesn't always occur immediately. Studies have shown that muskies caught in hot water have been released only to die days later. A crappy fate for a fish that I and many of you guys love to catch and work hard to protect. 

The fact is we recycle fish in our stocked fisheries with proper catch and release. Studies have shown that catch and release does work. Muskie fishing in general is a growing sport that often has more anglers on the lake than fish willing to cooperate. Many guides who rely on fishing for their livelihoods have hung up the gear in 80+ degree temps and that is their choice! Many fishermen are unaware of the risk of catching fish during this ridiculously hot summer. I don't judge any of you for fishing. One of the 50s that was caught and killed at the Branch was by a good friend of mine, and guess what, we're still friends. The muskie "clubs" have nothing to do with anything said here. Club tournaments do go on year-round and that's fine. Many good muskie fisherman have nothing to do with the clubs. But to put your head up in the air and think that every single fish you're catching right now is being "released", is just being naive.

And say what you will about Elmer saying it was "okay" to fish in August, but he is also a very smart man. Ask him how he feels about people fishing THIS August, where we have had record high temps and 80+ degree water consistently.


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## crittergitter

A big part of the problem is that this summer the weather has been hotter and drier than typical years. I can recall years where the hot water period didn't start until mid July and ended mid August. That's a short 4 week window of no fishing for me. I can live with that to be sure I don't unintentionally kill a musky. This year, it has been a little tougher. That's just the way it goes. 

You know, there was a time when people thought catch and release was a crazy idea. Now, for prized game fish, it's a way of life. When people learn all the facts, they can buy into the concept. Seriously, nobody WANTS to quit fishing for musky in the heart of the summer. I do it for the same reason I do catch and release. I believe it is better for the sport and the fishery.


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## crittergitter

More clear evidence that hot water is an issue:

http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-fish-die-midwest-streams-heat-183228110.html

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories...und-dead-at-three-creeks-metro-park-pond.html


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## backlashed

'Project Noble Beast'? Sounds like a very unbiased source indeed.


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## MuskieJim

Backlashed, it actually is. It includes several universities and is one of the most technical studies that has ever been done on muskie catch and release. Transmitters, growth rates, etc.. I'd let your fingers walk first using GOOGLE

http://projectnoblebeast.blogspot.com/

http://www.muskiescanada.ca/news.php?article_id=35

But who knows, maybe muskies Canada are also not a good source for an expert fish biologist such as yourself.


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## glassbb6646

wow its not a dont fish for muskie issue its a bad year with the weather. fishing is bad fishing for ALL FISH they are dieing without our help and as far as all the flouters / muskie on the lake that has been reported leesville blows all lakes away in ohio more fish day to day month to month and also look at who is #1 in the state... more fisherman every day. same water temps as all the other lake but yet no flouters or very few. COULD we please get off this i love talking to muskie fisherman helping each other out if you are fishing for muskie i know you are some what like me support the clubs and be thankfull we have muskie in our lakes let just help each other learn and get better at putting them in the boat the best way to save something is to get more people in not pushing the out,,
THEY WILL FISH JUST HELP THEM. more people means more money witch means more muskie in the lakes... if not we will all be chasing the last few in the lakes.. sorry so long just had to say.


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## backlashed

LOL, another quality post from the guy that thinks there are no muskie north of 73, accused an OGF member of photo shopping a muskie pic, than said real muskie fishermen don't hold their muskie that way, ( you got piled on for those two comments , didn't you) and got a thread shut down with his "people are idiots" comment.

Probably a good idea to keep your hands away from the keyboard if you can't come up with an adult post.


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## backlashed

MuskieJim said:


> Backlashed, it actually is. It includes several universities .....


Which universities? Just askin.......


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## BassSlayerChris

I completely agree with MuskieJim. Arguing over this is plain ignorance! Obviously hot weather has terrible effects on these fish! Why can't you people just wait a couple weeks then fish for them! There's plenty of other fish on the same water you can catch. Or if you want to that bad drive up to canada and spend a weekend up there. You may think that you can just go out and catch whatever fish at whatever consequence because it doesn't effect you well these fish are for everyone and it's a living being for Christ sake. Its like going hunting and shooting a deer then just leaving it there. It's a waste and I don't see why your arguing about this. My 2 cents. 


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## dtigers1984

backlashed said:


> Which universities? Just askin.......


The link to the paper quotes proffesors from Carleton University, and the University of Illinois, and was published in a well respected academic journal. I found all this out by clicking on the link.


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## backlashed

Awww, c'mon now, you're sucking the fun out, I'm pulling his chain!


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## KaGee

backlashed said:


> Awww, c'mon now, you're sucking the fun out, I'm pulling his chain!


There's a fine line between pulling someone's chain and baiting said person into an improper response. Walk cautiously.


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## Ogf's best

The reason people fish for muskie during the summer is the challenge of catching one. ..heres a bigger challenge.....troll lettuce trying to catch the state record shad.....its in there.......or hoover has the 2 time state record buffalo.....just a thought......visit clubasealsaveamusky.com


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## Silent Mike

could different catch and release methods work on the hotter days? Maybe putting the muskie in your livewell with cooler oxygenated water for a little bit? or holding the muskie in the water with your trolling motor on to force water over the gills?


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## pendog66

Silent Mike said:


> could different catch and release methods work on the hotter days? Maybe putting the muskie in your livewell with cooler oxygenated water for a little bit? or holding the muskie in the water with your trolling motor on to force water over the gills?


I would be too afraid of the fish being shocked from going from cool water to upper 80 degree water. I dont have the experience with Muskies so maybe some one else will answer


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## Mason52

No net, if it's not hooked to bad, no photo, and water release.........

Lakes are cooling off and will be good soon.


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## samiam

Ok so if I catch a muskie in warm water I should just keep so it doesn't go to waste, right? Any recipes?


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## crittergitter

samiam said:


> Ok so if I catch a muskie in warm water I should just keep so it doesn't go to waste, right? Any recipes?


Oh look, you made a funny. We're all so proud of you.


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## sbreech

samiam said:


> Ok so if I catch a muskie in warm water I should just keep so it doesn't go to waste, right? Any recipes?


That would be a lot of sammiches.


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## Anzomcik

With this cold front all of my waters are well below 80degrees. It seems like this topic should be ending very soon and everyone is allowed to fish.

Next july we can pick up where we left off.


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## Tatonka

Damn, I just remembered that there was a night bite muskie tourney at Leesville this past week anyone kno where the results are posted?


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## MuskieJim

** Take it to PM's please **

Water temps were 76 yesterday when we put 4 in the net. Great to see things cooling down from a record hot summer!


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## Tatonka

MuskieJim said:


> Water temps were 76 yesterday when we put 4 in the net. Great to see things cooling down from a record hot summer!


76 degrees is great, I am going to try and make it out this week
Was the 76 at West Branch?


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## MuskieJim

Leesville night bite had 29 sign up, 8 fish caught, big fish was 43.5".


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## Tatonka

MuskieJim said:


> Leesville night bite had 29 sign up, 8 fish caught, big fish was 43.5".


Sounded like a damn good night, glad to hear that, I wanted to go but I didnt have a radio and didn't know who anyone was to "float" my money too
Hopefully their next Aug tourney I will be able to get into it
Thank You sir


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## MuskieWolverine

WB temp was 76 yesterday. I didn't even mark a fish, let alone catch one. What's the trick to cold front muskie fishing? Hoping to get out Thursday for the night bite.


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## Silent Mike

pendog66 said:


> I would be too afraid of the fish being shocked from going from cool water to upper 80 degree water. I dont have the experience with Muskies so maybe some one else will answer


maybe not cooler water at first...i mean put 80 degree lake water in there, atleast its oxygenated, then add some cubes to cool him off? i dunno, just figured it might be worth a shot if the muskie isnt doing well


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## Bulldawg

MuskieWolverine said:


> WB temp was 76 yesterday. I didn't even mark a fish, let alone catch one. What's the trick to cold front muskie fishing? Hoping to get out Thursday for the night bite.


The trick is to stop trolling.................................. I promise you .


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## MuskieWolverine

Stop trolling in general, or just for cold fronts? If you switch to casting during cold fronts, what are you throwing, and what structure are you focusing on?

West Branch is a mess right now. Fish are scattered all over the lake.


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## crittergitter

MuskieWolverine said:


> Stop trolling in general, or just for cold fronts? If you switch to casting during cold fronts, what are you throwing, and what structure are you focusing on?
> 
> West Branch is a mess right now. Fish are scattered all over the lake.


Typical for this time of year. It's tricky to find a consistent pattern. 

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## hang_loose

Where ya at FishingisLife??? JK bud. Run that boat you're on right to the bank.


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## Tatonka

hang_loose said:


> Where ya at FishingisLife??? JK bud. Run that boat you're on right to the bank.



Who is fishingislife?


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## MuskieWolverine

Critter:

That's good to know. I've been out 4 times this past week, and haven't caught anything....starting to go nuts and thinking my fantastic luck has run out. Went out again yesterday...looking a bit better, but no big fish showing up on the finder. I'm thinking they are buried in shallow weeds, which I'm not going to attempt to troll with the water so low. Lost another $20 lure this past weekend!


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## backlashed

Try a Scum frog in those high weeds.


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## crittergitter

I admit I haven't caught many this time of year. I've read where the Kentucky guides turn to the buzzbait this time if year. If you think those fish are up in the weeds that is a good presentation to use. I hope to get out Friday or Saturday. 

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## Tatonka

I dont think I have ever caught a muskie trolling in August, catch most of mine in June, July and October but this screwy summer we had it was like fishing 3 months of August
Maybe I need to start targeting catfish, I have only went after muskie a few times this year and that was in early June


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## metalman213

I caught 2 in the last 3 trips ive went on. I caught a 49" on sunday. other was a 40 incher. 

The fish seem to be shallow. All caught by trolling.


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## Legend killer

backlashed said:


> Try a Scum frog in those high weeds.


How many muskie have you caught with this technique?


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## MuskieWolverine

For whatever reason, they have shut down on my lake in August...but I'm probably just looking in the wrong places. 

This was an AWESOME summer for me, but I won't be fishing in water this hot ever again. Learned alot this summer about what to do, and what not to do. Hopefully we have a "normal" summer next year.


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## Bulldawg

MuskieWolverine said:


> Stop trolling in general, or just for cold fronts? If you switch to casting during cold fronts, what are you throwing, and what structure are you focusing on?
> 
> West Branch is a mess right now. Fish are scattered all over the lake.


Both , these fish are shallow right now and buried in the weeds and on the edges . I have had action from fish casting and trolling shallow water this week . But with this damn weather we have been having (blue bird skies and no wind ) the action is pretty much limited to early morning and into the evening .


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## ShutUpNFish

If I walk across the street more this year, odds are greater that I may get hit and die too! It is a NO brainer that increased water temps will be harder on the fish....We have been fishing in hot weather for years and don't see dead muskies floating all over the top muskie waters or should I say any foreseeable problems. There are SO many variables in the the sensitivity of the release rates vs. warm water vs. deep water....We need to accept the fact that SOME fish will die. It is the nature of what we do....IMO our whole society is becoming WAY over sensitive especially in outdoor sports such as fishing! Some of you who have been at this sport for more than 5 years, know that muskie fishing has come A LONG WAY since the 40s 50s 60s 70s and 80s! We make efforts in CPR, stocking, baitfish funds to hold fry/fingerlings in hatcheries longer to increase survival rates....WE DO A LOT!!! Now we are going to promote NOT fishing when it gets hot??? This is extremism IMHO and going overboard. Yes, its certainly a personal choice, and thats fine and acceptable; however NO significant temperature numbers were given in the above article...why not? I know exactly why...focus did not want to be diverted to the message "Don't fish when its hot" BS....I called a reputable biologist on this exact issure earlier this summer for various reason not worth explaining....His answer to me was that when average surfact temps reach 87+, there is cause for caution. I didn't see anything close to that this summer. And also the efects of pulling fish out of deep water in those cases was not even mentioned....Most of our local inland lakes are not deep enough to have that be a huge factor anyway. 

Bottom line is to educate yourselves to proper fish handling and having a sense of good judgement during warth weather months. I know guys who net every fish....I personally do not net fish under 40" and will not net one in hot water conditions period and make sure it remains in the water. This is just a personal judgement call which I feel increases fishs' odds of survival and what I feel is the best i can do.....I'm not going to quit fishing unless conditions are extreme....These fish are more hardy than people really give them credit for, especially the extremists!

Just a NEW BANDWAGON for the extremists to jump on!


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## glassbb6646

please get over it people will still fish and and guides go north because fishing gets hard in ohio in the summer... if the muskie fishing was easy they would still be down south but it get hard and they make money by putting fish in the boat not hunting hard to catch fish.. funny get upset about muskie fishing in the summer and try and stop it but not worry about the boats and dams that kill and let go below the dam and we dont try to help or fix that. i will bet that would make a better impact than fishing in the summer. funny all fish seen dead are always summer muskie fisherman not from speed boats or caught up in the dam and spillways been fishing for muskie for a long time and we are very lucky to go to our lakes and have a chance to catch one lets try and help and find out ways to make money to help stock muskie and then it will not mater if we lose a few in the summer. we could have tournaments put the money to stocking and the winners get a trophy thats what we all want and we could help allot lets do more tournaments to give more money for stocking and then we can get off the dont fish... we all know not going to happen. lets help and not bit%% ... how about use the chat for helping and not being so negative.


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## BrookdaleBrothersOutdoors

Caught my first Muskie last week in about 77 degree water and I took a pic and measurements. She was not doing to well as we worked her for 15 mins. Then I decided to hold her down in the water about 4 feet where it was cooler and she did 100 times better and in 5 mins was ready to go. Sometime yo just have to use common sense. ANd think about the Muskie. Also talked to a bass fisherman that told me everyfish (Muskie) he catches he kills because it hurts the bass fishing that made me very upset. Its not the Muskie fishermen who care about there well being its the ruthless a**holes who kill them for idiotic reasons.


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## Legend killer

Shutupnfish: "I contacted a reputable biologist". How convenient. Even if what your reputable biologist says is true about up to 87 degrees, unless you were under a rock this summer water temps were in the high 80's most of the summer.


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## ShutUpNFish

I don't know what ponds your fishing in, but I never saw over 85 degree water temps all summer. Maybe try fishing some deeper, more productive waters when the temps get hot and you won't have to deal with it period. Or being more selective of the time you're fishing...If you're seeing high eighties temps on any inland lake, I probably wouldn't be fishing it anyway....duh! I'd certainly like to see your proof of high eighties temps on any given lake all day? And I'm talking an average temp reading, not a surface temp in a 6' bay at 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a 95* day. Its called adapting to environment/situations. 

Under a rock? LMAO! You obviously do not know me, but I'd be willing to bet I put more time in on the water this summer than you did in the past three....and I don't even know who you are...I just know the kind that makes ignorant comments like your's.


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## Bad Bub

ShutUpNFish said:


> I don't know what ponds your fishing in, but I never saw over 85 degree water temps all summer. Maybe try fishing some deeper, more productive waters when the temps get hot and you won't have to deal with it period. Or being more selective of the time you're fishing...If you're seeing high eighties temps on any inland lake, I probably wouldn't be fishing it anyway....duh! I'd certainly like to see your proof of high eighties temps on any given lake all day? And I'm talking an average temp reading, not a surface temp in a 6' bay at 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a 95* day. Its called adapting to environment/situations.
> 
> Under a rock? LMAO! You obviously do not know me, but I'd be willing to bet I put more time in on the water this summer than you did in the past three....and I don't even know who you are...I just know the kind that makes ignorant comments like your's.


I believe just about every lake i've been on this summer had surface temps over 85 degrees consistently. The Ohio river had about a 3 week window of 88-89 degree water....

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## Tatonka

My last 3 times out to Leesville, I took the kids Crappie fishing I have seen 4 muskie floating and one was pretty large
I also seen one swimming the surface after a guy released it, went up the lake and about 30 minutes later came back and the fish was still swimming the surface
What are the chances the muskie swimming the surface made it ?
It was swimming at a faster speed when we came back through so maybe it made it to hit a crankbait another day?


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## ShutUpNFish

Again, some of you are talking about surface temps that may reach in the high eighties during the heat of a day on one particular reading. I am talking an overall average of a system on any given 24 hr. period....Those are the numbers that REALLY matter. Furthermore, fish adapt to their surroundings and comfort zones....a muskie, or any fish, will rarely be found spending any considerable amount of time in water temps of 87* or more...Besides when the surface temp is 87*, just try taking a reading just 4 feet below that and tell me what the temp is?? I know what it is most of the time, do you? Its all just about common sense, some have it and most don't. Therefore, the sensible types, typically adapt as well; if what they are looking for is any type of success in capturing our prey that is...

I come back for ONE thread, ONE post and immediately see exactly why I don't frequent these dumb boards anymore...LOL!


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## Legend killer

ShutUpNFish said:


> Again, some of you are talking about surface temps that may reach in the high eighties during the heat of a day on one particular reading. I am talking an overall average of a system on any given 24 hr. period....Those are the numbers that REALLY matter. Furthermore, fish adapt to their surroundings and comfort zones....a muskie, or any fish, will rarely be found spending any considerable amount of time in water temps of 87* or more...Besides when the surface temp is 87*, just try taking a reading just 4 feet below that and tell me what the temp is?? I know what it is most of the time, do you? Its all just about common sense, some have it and most don't. Therefore, the sensible types, typically adapt as well; if what they are looking for is any type of success in capturing our prey that is...
> 
> I come back for ONE thread, ONE post and immediately see exactly why I don't frequent these dumb boards anymore...LOL!


"Dumb boards"?


"All about common sense, some have it and most don't"

The board is better without your arrogance.


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## Mason52

I think it really is time to quit arguing this till next year (like every year) as most lakes in Ohio that I can find are back well into the 70's and the fish should be moving up shallower b-4 long if not already. B snowing b-4 you know it


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## Tatonka

Mason52 said:


> I think it really is time to quit arguing this till next year (like every year) as most lakes in Ohio that I can find are back well into the 70's and the fish should be moving up shallower b-4 long if not already. B snowing b-4 you know it



The lowest reading i got yesterday at Leesville was 78.4 and highest was 80.2 
I would also think this is normal for August but the water has been warm since what, mid May?


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## imalt

Mason52 said:


> I think it really is time to quit arguing this till next year (like every year) as most lakes in Ohio that I can find are back well into the 70's and the fish should be moving up shallower b-4 long if not already. B snowing b-4 you know it


I cant wait until next summer.


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## Bad Bub

ShutUpNFish said:


> Again, some of you are talking about surface temps that may reach in the high eighties during the heat of a day on one particular reading. I am talking an overall average of a system on any given 24 hr. period....Those are the numbers that REALLY matter. Furthermore, fish adapt to their surroundings and comfort zones....a muskie, or any fish, will rarely be found spending any considerable amount of time in water temps of 87* or more...Besides when the surface temp is 87*, just try taking a reading just 4 feet below that and tell me what the temp is?? I know what it is most of the time, do you? Its all just about common sense, some have it and most don't. Therefore, the sensible types, typically adapt as well; if what they are looking for is any type of success in capturing our prey that is...
> 
> I come back for ONE thread, ONE post and immediately see exactly why I don't frequent these dumb boards anymore...LOL!


The reference in the previous post that you commented on talked about surface temps. Muskies, believe it or not, cannot sustain themselves in most of our lakes. And due to them being stocked, it would be considered a put and take program. Not everyone worships the great muskie like you do. I'd never try to kill one, but if one eats my crankbait, i'm doing everything in my power to put a net on it to get my bait back. I do everything in my power to release them alive, but once it leaves my boat, he's on his own.... maybe I don't have any common sense, please enlighten me.

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## KaGee

I thought the title of the thread was "Quit Arguing"?


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## MuskieWolverine

Is this really still going on???? Really??? 

At the end of the day, do what you want. I've personally chosen not to fish when the waters hit over 80, but that's me. I fished all summer long, and when I started having problems with a few fish in early August, I waited until the water dropped again. Will I do that all summer if we have another one like this? Who knows! I doubt it, but that's my own decision.

I can say that bashing people is not going to bring anyone to your side either way. There is an intelligent way to talk to people, and the moronic way. I made my decision not based on Legend Killer, but on some helpful others on here. If you want to act like Captain Fishmaster, go ahead. But you're turning everyone else off.

And Mason, you shut your mouth about snow!!! (haha)


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## Mason52

And Mason, you shut your mouth about snow!!! (haha) 

Not lookin forward to it either............


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## ShutUpNFish

_"Muskies, believe it or not, cannot sustain themselves in most of our lakes." _

You can't be serious about this statement can you really? If muskies could not sustain themselves, then you would not see the quality of fish we see being caught today....Do you think the fisheries depts. stock 50"+ fish?? If you fished seriously for these fish 20 years ago, you might truely understand how far this sport has REALLY come. Not only through the efforts of sportsman, but also good management. If you're talking reproduction ONLY, OK then....some does take place, but very little; especially in Ohio. Maybe you meant the muskie fishery cannot sustain itself? 


_"And due to them being stocked, it would be considered a put and take program. Not everyone worships the great muskie like you do." _

Trout fishing is "put and take" and typically cannot sustain themselves in out warm waters/rivers, even though they are stocked mature...muskies are typically stocked as fry or fingerlings (babies) survival rates are much less until they reach maturity....I would not consider any managed muskie fishery "put and take" simply because nature would never allow for there to be enough muskies in an inland system for everyone to "take" without depleting it in a hurry. Theres a difference between "put & take" management system that stocks fish so anglers and take them and a "sportfish" management system like for muskies which is obviously meant for the sport of catching the fish and not really taking. So I hardly believe it can be called "put and take"...of course, our inland systems have very little natural reproduction, therefore a stocking/management system is necessary to keep the sport alive or to keep up with the numbers this younger generation of muskie fishermen/women expects today.

Worship?? I only worship one being and it certainly is not a muskie. I respect the sport, pastime and promotions of good attitudes and practices that go along with it. I guess I should since I've been at it for over 20 years. Of course the fish are to be respected, however, I do not lose sleep over a lost fish or accidental death of one. I believe that if you do it long enough, you will eventually get a good quality routine down for yourself concerning good fish handling. A dead fish will be replaced through management and losing some is part of the nature of what we do. What bothers me most is attitudes of ignorant people... people start leaning toward treating these fish WAY over sensitively, we begin leaning toward extremism/purism/elitism...Thats what I'm afraid this sport is headed for...Its a shame really. Its NOT about the fish, IMHO, its about preserving a pastime for our children to be able to enjoy as we have. I guess if you've only been at it for a few years or so, its impossible to understand fully. So, sorry to confuse. 

_"I'd never try to kill one, but if one eats my crankbait, i'm doing everything in my power to put a net on it to get my bait back. I do everything in my power to release them alive, but once it leaves my boat, he's on his own.... maybe I don't have any common sense, please enlighten me."_

This IS all you can do...I'm not sure if I sent the wrong message somewhere in the above statement, but I'm not promoting any sort of extreme behavior in regards to protecting these fish?? Your statement is as common sense as it gets! Very well said and I agree totally!

Good Day....I'm done with this.


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## Legend killer

What the poster means by muskies cannot sustain themselves is through natural reproduction. We have to rely on our stocking efforts in our local waters.


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## imalt

Look at the bright side with all the dead musky's from warm water fishing the bass fishing will improve. Since the musky eat all the bass, crappie whatever else all the musky haters blame their bad fishing days on.


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## Mason52

With all the muskies being killed form hot water and all the rest going threw the dam during flooding it's no wonder nobody can catch any


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## Bad Bub

imalt said:


> Look at the bright side with all the dead musky's from warm water fishing the bass fishing will improve. Since the musky eat all the bass, crappie whatever else all the musky haters blame their bad fishing days on.


I'm not buying that, and i'm a bass fisherman! They may eat some, but it isn't enough for any of us to notice a difference.

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## Mason52

Pretty sure he's just kidding around Bub. People love to think muskies eat evey fish in the lake for some reason.


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## H2O Mellon

.... Nothing wrong w/ dead Muskies, the turtles need something to eat!

(kidding, I HATE hearing/seeing dead Muskies from summer fishing but no as long as it's legal people will continue to do it.)


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