# Article: Dim outlook for anglers on Lake Erie



## Steimy (Jun 29, 2008)

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2011/10/02/outlook-dim-for-anglers-on-lake-erie.html


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## BIG JOHNSON (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm not sure I'm buyin what they are selling. I do believe the numbers are down due to the lack of hatches, but just 8 years ago we had one of the best hatches that we've had in a while. You can't tell me that much has changed with the agriculter side of things. Infact with things the way they are you might think that side of the equation has dropped due to the economy. And the global warming thing hasn't been proven either. If I was a betting person, I would bet we get a good hatch in the near future. Everything goes through cycles from what I can tell.
I do believe the limit should have been dropped before now just to keep the numbers up, but they seem to wait until everything looks real bad then freak everyone out about it! 

BTW Has anyone noticed the inland lakes with the green/blue algea? Just curious, you would think they get alot of run off also. Do they turn green?


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## Tommybouy (Jun 5, 2005)

immediate observation is fragmented article. Had bits and pieces that are relevant. 

overall concern is quality hatches are too far apart and algae levels are broaching levels when the great lake was dying / near dead.

To answer your question about inland lakes - inland lakes are having the same algae issue and some have been shut down / closed from swimming. Last year reported the death of pets that drank from those same inland lakes and unfortunately a few people suffered issues that will affect them the rest of their lives.

Not the most informative article but had truths. Next spawn is coming to a March / April near you; Maybe this will be the one we have been waiting for.


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## Alaskan (Jun 19, 2007)

Inland>>>Grand Lake St. Mary's




BIG JOHNSON said:


> I'm not sure I'm buyin what they are selling. I do believe the numbers are down due to the lack of hatches, but just 8 years ago we had one of the best hatches that we've had in a while. You can't tell me that much has changed with the agriculter side of things. Infact with things the way they are you might think that side of the equation has dropped due to the economy. And the global warming thing hasn't been proven either. If I was a betting person, I would bet we get a good hatch in the near future. Everything goes through cycles from what I can tell.
> I do believe the limit should have been dropped before now just to keep the numbers up, but they seem to wait until everything looks real bad then freak everyone out about it!
> 
> BTW Has anyone noticed the inland lakes with the green/blue algea? Just curious, you would think they get alot of run off also. Do they turn green?


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## CarpetBagger (Sep 21, 2009)

Bad things sell....Mediocry is boring...

They need to build things down so when the lake bounces back they can write how wonderful everything is...

Now grant it Im not mocking that the lake is in trouble or doubting the fish population is low, however I do feel that Lake Erie was sustained by an 03 hatch up until this point...So while everyone was cheerleading for the "Walleye Capital of the World" no one looked and said geez we havent had another good hatch until 2011??? 8 years we wait until we see $hit starting to hit the fan? Then want to do something about it...


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

I have really been considering selling my bass boat for a boat more suitable to take advantage of the great fishery Erie is. Now I am not so sure!! Decisions-Decisions. I sure hope this is not true!


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

CarpetBagger said:


> Bad things sell....Mediocry is boring...
> 
> They need to build things down so when the lake bounces back they can write how wonderful everything is...
> 
> Now grant it Im not mocking that the lake is in trouble or doubting the fish population is low, however I do feel that Lake Erie was sustained by an 03 hatch up until this point...So while everyone was cheerleading for the "Walleye Capital of the World" no one looked and said geez we havent had another good hatch until 2011??? 8 years we wait until we see $hit starting to hit the fan? Then want to do something about it...


I don't know where you've been capt but the algae problem is NOT new this year and a lot of people have been talking about it and urging actiion for years because the lake is in trouble. 
And now the state has announced they are going to have 2 panelsforkm 2 of the most worthless agencies we have STUDY they problem.
(here is a story)
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Ohio plans to have two study groups research how to better fight toxic algae on Lake Erie after seeing a concentrated algae bloom in its western basin this year.

The Columbus Dispatch ( http://bit.ly/qlgAvQ ) reports that the algae bloom this year added to the "dead zone" where fish can't live and that it could threaten the lake's tourism industry, valued at $10 billion. Runoffs of fertilizer, manure and sewage contribute phosphorus that feed blue-green algae, which can produce toxins that can sicken people and animals.

Environmentalists say officials need to take action to reduce such runoffs from farms and sewage treatment facilities before the algae problem worsens.

The Ohio Environmental Protection Agency and the state Department of Agriculture each plan to have a panel work on the issue.

---


If you are not convinced about the dire situation facing us research the lake's condition in the 60's.


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## Indian Summer (May 26, 2008)

CB nailed it... The media loves to create the roller coaster ride as do politicians. I can't be a hero until I create a disaster to fix right?

The other most valid point here is all things in nature go in cycles. Period. Though politics can really send natures cycles into a tailspin on occasion. 

When that happens we're really in trouble because although that is very possible.... it's nearly impossible to reverse. 

Manmade problems like pollution can usually be solved even if it takes a long time. However.... when we plot nature against Mother Nature we're in big trouble. Things like non-native fish species and waterborn viruses like VHS. In those instances we are at the mercy of letting nature run it's course once we open the door. We can attempt to prevent spreading it but cannot eliminate it. Bad. But agriculture and crappy weather have been around forever. Not really worth writing or reading about. 

An important point though is that even though the media DCNR etc cry wolf all the time.... we can't become conditioned to the point where we don't identify problems early. Algae is natural so it could be serious. The blue/green is nasty! Good news is that if we are the cause we should be able to fix it at this point.

Wolves in the Rocky Mountain west, Wisconsin, Minnesota, & Michigan are a prime example if you know anything about that. Spreading like cancer with no end in sight. A natural disaster would be the proper term. Interesting thing to note is that one day they told us everything was fine (while we were telling them it wasn't) and the next day they are going crazy with stories of devastated elk and deer herds. It didn't happen overnight. Those are the things that can really sneak up to bite us in the butt. 

This year spring was a disaster. But every once in awhile that's just natural right? An article about commercial fishing, dumping ballast water, or Asian carp would be a different story. My 2 cents on media and government vs Mother nature and the people. LOL See what you started CB!


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## BIG JOHNSON (Aug 31, 2005)

That (DEAD ZONE) will be an alive zone...just give it a couple weeks.


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## CarpetBagger (Sep 21, 2009)

Bob...I am down here in Eastern Ohio. I have only seen the algea problem in pictures we dont experience that down here......

What I am getting at is we would rather wait see how things play out before taking any action...Like gee its been 9 years since weve had a good hatch...maybe we should drop the limits or take some kinda action...Just always seems that only the dire times create any means for any action...


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

Want to fix the Lake Erie fishery, it all comes down to Dam removal. The destruction of the Ballville Dam on the Sandusky is a great start. Opens up miles of great spawning habitat to Walleye.


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman (May 7, 2007)

Govbarney said:


> Want to fix the Lake Erie fishery, it all comes down to Dam removal. The destruction of the Ballville Dam on the Sandusky is a great start. Opens up miles of great spawning habitat to Walleye.


Not.... Its like at least 90% spawn on the lake and the other ten go up the rivers. It won't hurt but its not going to fix everything


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## shroomhunter (Aug 6, 2004)

Buckeye Lake here in Central Ohio has the blue green colored water, there was an advisory out briefly on it. Last year was real bad for inland lakes, GL St. Mary's, Buckeye, Dillon and Piedmont all had warnings at one point, GLSM was by far the worst.

I know they point the finger at Farming, non binding Phosphorus specifically, but there are an awful lot of lawns being fertilized as well. Of all the lakes mentioned, residentual runoff could be a possible partial culprit except for Piedmont, it's is in rural SE Ohio.
I can only hope they get it figured out quickly, for the future enjoyment of all.


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

BIG JOHNSON said:


> That (DEAD ZONE) will be an alive zone...just give it a couple weeks.



Where do u guys get this crap - the dead zone is growing every year. Do a little research, it really doesn't hurt, honest. Or sit around and blame the media and when it's too late blame someone else....
Yeah CB nailed it - he doesn't see the algae down east so it's not really a problem. Where do you think the majority of Erie eyes spawn????? Ask some scientists who don't work for the gov't if it scares them. Talk to some commercial guys who worked the lake in the 60s when the algae and pollution were at their peak.


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## CarpetBagger (Sep 21, 2009)

You cannot pump posion into this lake and expect it to be ok....

Bob I wasnt trying to nail anything...Fact that I am out East and dont have to deal with the algea problem doesnt mean I am not worried...I just feel as long as the fish were there and everyone was pounding out limits all these other problems were so out of sight and out of mind....However when we start struggling to limit in 2 hours all of a sudden the lake is dying...

Geneva Ohio was infamous for the "Dead Zone" in the years prior to the 03 hatch...All we heard about was the runoff, and algea , then when everyone started catching fish again all you read were positives on the fishing and how wonderful Lake Erie was...You never heard another thing again...Till now...

Im not doubting a problem...but it just seems as long as guys are catching fish and spending money all these other problems that are harming this lake seem to go un noticed or atleast not addressed (so it seems)....I think thats a real problem...


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## spoonman (Feb 17, 2009)

Michigan has outlawed using any phosphus in any lawn fertilizers. It should be a federal law to protect all lakes. Even the smaller inland lakes are vitial to more than just fish.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

spoonman said:


> Michigan has outlawed using any phosphus in any lawn fertilizers. It should be a federal law to protect all lakes. Even the smaller inland lakes are vitial to more than just fish.


(From what I've read), it's not just from lawn fertilizers(drop in the bucket!)- but from farming. Though it stays, and builds up, in the fields, they continue to put more on every year. The run off into the rivers in the WB(and St. Clair) contribute more every year to the algae prob in Erie. The "Officials" know this and refuse(so far) to do anything abt it. The algae(from fertilizers) in St Mary's has also been blames on farm field runoff.


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## highstickn (Dec 25, 2009)

The old way of spreading liquid manure, still common today.


















New equipment, starting to be used more often. The manure is injected directly into the soil, the little wheels (disks) and white hoses at the back. Natural livestock manure is a really good fertilizer as long as it is kept in the soil where the crops can make use of it. The crops convert it into plant mass. After it is used up by the plants no harm will be done to the streams and lakes.








Spreading manure isn't the only problem with farming but it is one of the bigger ones. There are other problems with city sewage overflows and lawn fertilizers. They will all have to be addressed using facts and science in order to fix the problem with the streams and lakes. There has also been a huge amount of flooding this year which made the problems worse than expected.


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## bones. (Mar 9, 2005)

Don't forget about the ortho phosphorus. It is another form of soluble phosphorus that most major drinking water systems started adding to the mix around 1994 or there about. They add it to the drinking water to reduce corrosion in lead and copper water pipes in homes and businesses. This is a contributor to this problem and has been on the radar of researchers. So every time you wash your car, water your lawn, flush toilet etc. it goes into the lake. It is not treated at the treatment plants either. Its interesting that prior to 1994 all the data on algae blooms show a downward trend then after they started using this stuff in 1994 the algae blooms have been on the increase. I'm in no way letting the farmers off the hook on this but it also needs to be considered. Some of the guys from Sea Grant that I know are members on this site should weigh in on this thread and issue there are loads of data regarding soluble phosphorus out there.


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## dizzyroor302 (May 7, 2011)

i say shut down the rivers for the spawn and stop the commercial fishing for the spawn too


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## jimski2 (Jul 23, 2010)

Before the 1960's and the introduction of municipal sewage treatment things were 100 times worse than this, but the fishing was better. THERE WERE NO LIMITS IN LAKE ERIE FOR PERCH AND WALLEYES, MORE FISH CAUGHT,BOTH COMMERCIAL AND SPORT, AND INDUSTRIAL POLLUTION WAS REALLY BAD. The algae is good for production of forage fish and the scare from these guys is a way of saving their jobs as the USA's economy is going into the tank.


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## CarpetBagger (Sep 21, 2009)

They've made claim the green algea is the good stuff but the blue stuff is 
the bad guy...



jimski2 said:


> Before the 1960's and the introduction of municipal sewage treatment things were 100 times worse than this, but the fishing was better. THERE WERE NO LIMITS IN LAKE ERIE FOR PERCH AND WALLEYES, MORE FISH CAUGHT,BOTH COMMERCIAL AND SPORT, AND INDUSTRIAL POLLUTION WAS REALLY BAD. The algae is good for production of forage fish and the scare from these guys is a way of saving their jobs as the USA's economy is going into the tank.


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## goolies (Jun 28, 2007)

bones. said:


> Don't forget about the ortho phosphorus. It is another form of soluble phosphorus that most major drinking water systems started adding to the mix around 1994 or there about. They add it to the drinking water to reduce corrosion in lead and copper water pipes in homes and businesses. This is a contributor to this problem and has been on the radar of researchers. So every time you wash your car, water your lawn, flush toilet etc. it goes into the lake. It is not treated at the treatment plants either. Its interesting that prior to 1994 all the data on algae blooms show a downward trend then after they started using this stuff in 1994 the algae blooms have been on the increase. I'm in no way letting the farmers off the hook on this but it also needs to be considered. Some of the guys from Sea Grant that I know are members on this site should weigh in on this thread and issue there are loads of data regarding soluble phosphorus out there.


Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I was unaware that our drinking water was treated with a form of phosphorus. I would also like to see the Sea Grant guys chime in on this thread.


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## ErieGoldSportfishing (Feb 5, 2009)

BIG JOHNSON said:


> You can't tell me that much has changed with the agriculter side of things.
> 
> BTW Has anyone noticed the inland lakes with the green/blue algea? Just curious, you would think they get alot of run off also. Do they turn green?



Being a member of the ag community I understand why people want to point a finger at excessive fertilizer usage as the main culprit in the issues we are seeing on inland and the Great Lakes. The baffling thing to me is there have been huge strides made in cultural practices and installation of buffer strips to filter surface runoff to ditches or streams over the past 10 to 25 years. There is also amazing technology being widely used for zone soil testing and variable rate application of fertilizers which reduces usage. The problem should be getting better, not worse. The question raised above is how much has changed in agriculture in recent history? The first thing that needs to be pointed out is the past 2 springs/summers have had historical amounts of rainfall on large portions of the Lake Erie watershed. That alone increases the volume of nutrients washed into the lake compared to average years. 

The most revolutionary change in agricuture since the invention of the tractor is the the genetic engineering technology that brought us "Roundup Ready" corn, bean, alfalfa, and many other crops. The active ingredient in Roundup and several other herbicides that can be used in this production system is glyphosate (an organic compound containing phosphorus among a few other elements) It readily affixes to and is fairly stable to soil particles. That makes it very mobile during heavy rains that move soil through erosion. The claim always was glyphosate was quickly broken down in the soil but I read a study that showed glyphosate was detectible in crops the following year of application which suggests the half life is much longer than previously thought. It is very difficult to detect through traditional testing methods. Monsanto used to make broad statements on how environmentally friendly Roundup is but I believe they were forced through legal action to stop that practice. 

I am in no way shape or form qualified to make a connection between the "Roundup Revolution" and recent explosions in phosphorus levels in Lake Erie and other waters but I do find it peculiar enough that I am searching studies and environmental statements on glyphosate.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

GoBuckeyes85 said:


> Being a member of the ag community I understand why people want to point a finger at excessive fertilizer usage as the main culprit in the issues we are seeing on inland and the Great Lakes. The baffling thing to me is there have been huge strides made in cultural practices and installation of buffer strips to filter surface runoff to ditches or streams over the past 10 to 25 years. There is also amazing technology being widely used for zone soil testing and variable rate application of fertilizers which reduces usage. The problem should be getting better, not worse. The question raised above is how much has changed in agriculture in recent history? The first thing that needs to be pointed out is the past 2 springs/summers have had historical amounts of rainfall on large portions of the Lake Erie watershed. That alone increases the volume of nutrients washed into the lake compared to average years.
> 
> The most revolutionary change in agricuture since the invention of the tractor is the the genetic engineering technology that brought us "Roundup Ready" corn, bean, alfalfa, and many other crops. The active ingredient in Roundup and several other herbicides that can be used in this production system is glyphosate (an organic compound containing phosphorus among a few other elements) It readily affixes to and is fairly stable to soil particles. That makes it very mobile during heavy rains that move soil through erosion. The claim always was glyphosate was quickly broken down in the soil but I read a study that showed glyphosate was detectible in crops the following year of application which suggests the half life is much longer than previously thought. It is very difficult to detect through traditional testing methods. Monsanto used to make broad statements on how environmentally friendly Roundup is but I believe they were forced through legal action to stop that practice.
> 
> I am in no way shape or form qualified to make a connection between the "Roundup Revolution" and recent explosions in phosphorus levels in Lake Erie and other waters but I do find it peculiar enough that I am searching studies and environmental statements on glyphosate.


Go bucks,
I have a question...maybe a dumb one but i'm not a farmer. with all the tiling of the fields, how much phosphate escapes under the buffer strips and straight out the pipes? Is this a concern? One more question. I read awhile back thru a link on here to Deere's website about planting a cover crop on bare fields over the winter to help reduce phosphate run off. Is this feasible? any idea of what that would add to the cost of one's operation?

p.s. don't even get me started on Monsanto! LOL


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

another interesting but dismal article.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...HOL-?SITE=ILROR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


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## goolies (Jun 28, 2007)

boatnut said:


> another interesting but dismal article.
> 
> http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...HOL-?SITE=ILROR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


Thanks for the link. It was interesting to see that other Great Lakes are also having problems.


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## marcbodi (Apr 12, 2004)

Hi,
Has anyone got their license for the upcoming Pheasant season.Trying to find a Pheasant will keep you busy so no one will worry about finding a Walleye.We have to unite now if we want to save the (Lakes).


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

Since when did people in this great country become such low action, complaining, lambs looking for our inept governments to solve every problem? Scientists have told us there is too much phophorus going into the lakes. OK, its not just the farm industry though. Do you fertilize your lawn? WITH PHOSPHORUS? Now I always buy non phosphorus types or just don't fertilize. I bought a hull cleaner this past weekend. Read the label and it contained phosphorus. So I kept looking for another brand. West Marine had a brand that worked great and didn't contain phosphorus. Stop looking for others to solve all these problems. Do what you can first then try to lead others to the best solutions. And by all means, shrink the size of our inept governments so private people have the time and funds available to change our world for the better. 
I'm going fishin.
Rickerd


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

> installation of buffer strips to filter surface runoff to ditches or streams


How does a buffer strip help if all of the fields are tiled???


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman (May 7, 2007)

~~~~......~~~~~.... Deeettttrrriiiooootttt..... poopy


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

jimski2 said:


> Before the 1960's and the introduction of municipal sewage treatment things were 100 times worse than this, but the fishing was better. THERE WERE NO LIMITS IN LAKE ERIE FOR PERCH AND WALLEYES, MORE FISH CAUGHT,BOTH COMMERCIAL AND SPORT, AND INDUSTRIAL POLLUTION WAS REALLY BAD. The algae is good for production of forage fish and the scare from these guys is a way of saving their jobs as the USA's economy is going into the tank.


the lake was getting bad but they didn't understand how huge the problem was and apparently you still don't. Toxic alage is NOT GOOD for forage fish.


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## mkalink (Mar 28, 2010)

The city of Detroit is broke and has been dumping raw sewage in the water for years now.


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## highstickn (Dec 25, 2009)

boatnut said:


> Go bucks,
> I have a question...maybe a dumb one but i'm not a farmer. with all the tiling of the fields, how much phosphate escapes under the buffer strips and straight out the pipes? Is this a concern? One more question. I read awhile back thru a link on here to Deere's website about planting a cover crop on bare fields over the winter to help reduce phosphate run off. Is this feasible? any idea of what that would add to the cost of one's operation?
> 
> p.s. don't even get me started on Monsanto! LOL


Hopefully Go Bucks (or anyone) knows more about this but I will give it try. Someone else asked about buffer strips as well.

The main problem as I understand it is surface run off. A heavy rain will erode soil and the nutrients it contains directly into the streams. That's why the streams and lakes look like chocolate milk after a heavy rain. If the rain water slowly filters through the soil and out the drain tiles less of a problem.

Buffer strips of grass or clover along the ditches and streams are a good way to hold this erosion out of the streams and ditches. The problem is there aren't many areas that have buffer strips and if they have them they are often neglected. At least that is the way it is in my area.

In my area some of the farmers are now using 2 year no-till 1 year tillled method. Meaning there are 2 winters that have corn stocks left in the field - very little erosion and only one winter bare soil. Planting a cover crop in the 3rd year is possible and it can help put nitrogen and other nutrients into the soil (less chemical fertilizer spread) but it isn't done very often.

It is in the best interest of the farmer to keep the soil and nutrients in the field. Some people are thick-headed and just don't get it.

A general comment not directed at anyone: don't pick on the farmers too much, we all eat, they create good jobs and a good industry. I would rather starve to death than buy my food from China. Check the labels on your food!!!


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## ErieGoldSportfishing (Feb 5, 2009)

Highstickin your statement is very accurate. Somebody also asked about nutrient leaching through tile systems. There is some that comes through field tile but its a tiny fraction of what is carried by soil particles carried in surface runoff. Thats why buffer strips are so effective.
N
Under certain conditions (periods of extreme dry and heat where deep cracks open up in the soil) manure can make a bee line into ditches via field tile but under the requited manure management plans application is prohibited under those condtions.


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