# Speaking of laws, got charged yesterday.



## MassillonBuckeye

So, I was hunting in an Archery Only area, no guns allowed ever. I was cited for inadequate hunter orange as unbeknownst to me, it was youth gun season. Yes, I'm a rookie and it was really an honest mistake. I had a hunter orange cap on, which I am aware normally isn't sufficient. My question is, the originally cited me with a misdemeanor 3, must appear but called me today saying he was reducing it to m-4 based on how I handled the situation? So now I no longer have to appear, but the fine I have to pay is $160. Should I goto court anyhow? Has anyone been fined for this in the past? I was hoping if I plead my case(while wearing my hunter orange of course!) maybe the judge will have some leniency. Archery season, archery only area, over dressed for archery, new hunter etc. or should I just pay the $160 and be done? Can the judge reduce it to anything less than a misdemeanor? I have a squeaky clean record up to this point. Rather disappointed in myself actually. I should have known.


----------



## nicklesman

MassillonBuckeye said:


> So, I was hunting in an Archery Only area, no guns allowed ever. I was cited for inadequate hunter orange as unbeknownst to me, it was youth gun season. Yes, I'm a rookie and it was really an honest mistake. I had a hunter orange cap on, which I am aware normally isn't sufficient. My question is, the originally cited me with a misdemeanor 3, must appear but called me today saying he was reducing it to m-4 based on how I handled the situation? So now I no longer have to appear, but the fine I have to pay is $160. Should I goto court anyhow? Has anyone been fined for this in the past? I was hoping if I plead my case(while wearing my hunter orange of course!) maybe the judge will have some leniency. Archery season, archery only area, over dressed for archery, new hunter etc. or should I just pay the $160 and be done? Can the judge reduce it to anything less than a misdemeanor? I have a squeaky clean record up to this point. Rather disappointed in myself actually. I should have known.


Just pay the fine and chalk it up as a lesson learned. I doubt you would get anywhere in court.

Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Ozdog

did you not wear orange because it was an archery only area?


----------



## Lundy

Pay your fine


----------



## Mushijobah

If you have time to appear and don't have to take work off...Maybe goto court. the new enviro. judge in Franklin County is pretty hard lined though...not sure where you were. Maybe he'd dismiss it or reduce it. Maybe not.

Sucks either way, but lesson learned.


----------



## ezbite

hmmmm seems fishy to me. ive been bow hunting for many years and never wear orange unless i know its the youth season. which is a great time to kill a deer because those kids cant sit still past 8am, set up on an escape route and wait. im not saying you dont wear it on normal basis when bow hunting (because i honestly dont think deer can see it) i dont wear it and cant think of any of my buddies that do unless its required by law and yes pay the fine and move on..


----------



## catfishhunterjames

In the Hunting Regulations says, All persons (except waterfowl hunters) hunting or accompanying a youth hunter during the youth deer gun season are required to wear hunter orange. Archery deer hunters may hunt during the youth deer gun season and are required to wear hunter orange.

I dont see any way of getting out of it, also if you get a judge thats in a bad mood he could ask if you read the laws. Then it could go downhill from there.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Ozdog said:


> did you not wear orange because it was an archery only area?


I've been wearing an orange cap at all times just to be safe. I would have been wearing a solid orange vest as well if id have realized the youth gun season was on. Even though I knew there'd be no youths gun hunting in this area as it's archery only.

It was Delaware county Mushi. I've already scheduled the day off so that's not a big deal. I was gonna goto court with my regulation book and hunter orange, as it's not that I'm completely ignorant of the regs, just an honest rookie mistake. Not sure if they'd show leniency or not. I'm probably going to just pay it online and go hunting that morning instead.. With the required hunter orange of course!!!

Yep, lesson learned! That better be one tasty deer once(if) I end up bagging one! Tally my new equipment, 2 tags, license, and now this fine and Yowsa!! I've had a good time out there this year so far and have learned a lot so I'm not really complaining. Thanks for the advice fellas.


----------



## Mr. A

MassillonBuckeye said:


> So, I was hunting in an Archery Only area, no guns allowed ever. I was cited for inadequate hunter orange as unbeknownst to me, it was youth gun season. Yes, I'm a rookie and it was really an honest mistake. I had a hunter orange cap on, which I am aware normally isn't sufficient. My question is, the originally cited me with a misdemeanor 3, must appear but called me today saying he was reducing it to m-4 based on how I handled the situation? So now I no longer have to appear, but the fine I have to pay is $160. Should I goto court anyhow? Has anyone been fined for this in the past? I was hoping if I plead my case(while wearing my hunter orange of course!) maybe the judge will have some leniency. Archery season, archery only area, over dressed for archery, new hunter etc. or should I just pay the $160 and be done? Can the judge reduce it to anything less than a misdemeanor? I have a squeaky clean record up to this point. Rather disappointed in myself actually. I should have known.


The judge can dismiss it. At worst you have to pay $160, right? However if you go to court the issuing officer has to show as well. With how badly they are under staffed I highly doubt that will happen; if he don't show it is dismissed! 

My wife hasn't seen a DNR officer in court for a ticket in her 15 years of practice and she's there everyday. None of her friends could remember seeing one either.

However, it is your decision.....

Mr. A


----------



## Ozdog

Well, that's a bummer. The court is going to tell you that ignorance of the law is no excuse. I'd just pay the fine


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Mr. A said:


> The judge can dismiss it. At worst you have to pay $160, right? However if you go to court the issuing officer has to show as well. With how badly they are under staffed I highly doubt that will happen; if he don't show it is dismissed!
> 
> My wife hasn't seen a DNR officer in court for a ticket in her 15 years of practice and she's there everyday. None of her friends could remember seeing one either.
> 
> However, it is your decision.....
> 
> Mr. A


Are you sure about that? Maybe he changed the charge because he knew he couldn't be there and hoped I just paid it? Interesting. Like I said, it was an honest mistake. Otherwise Id just take my lickin and move on. Ugh. I'd rather not have a misdemeanor on my record for something so innocent(in my eyes anyhow). I have 2 orange vests, hats and a hoodie and have no problem wearing then as I don't think the deer care either. I'd never intentionally break a game rule..


----------



## ezbite

massillonbuckeye, you always come on here as youre a very knowledgeable man, im still at a loss of how you didnt realize it wasnt youth season and what the legal requirements of hunting were.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

ezbite said:


> massillonbuckeye, you always come on here as your are a very knowledgeable man, im still at a loss of how you didnt realize it wasnt youth season and what the legal requirements of hunting were.


Like I said, rookie mistake. My first year hunting deer. I realize the legal requirements are the same during all gun seasons youth or not. On archery land, wasn't thinking about guns at all. Never youth hunted or took a youth hunting. Not trying to make excuses, but I can tell you I didn't do it intentionally. I have to be more aware regardless of where I'm hunting. I don't think that classifies me a criminal, which is essentially what this charge is doing. If I were on land where gun hunting was legal at all we wouldn't be having his discussion. Ugh


----------



## ezbite

Mr. A said:


> The judge can dismiss it. At worst you have to pay $160, right? However if you go to court the issuing officer has to show as well. With how badly they are under staffed I highly doubt that will happen; if he don't show it is dismissed!
> 
> My wife hasn't seen a DNR officer in court for a ticket in her 15 years of practice and she's there everyday. None of her friends could remember seeing one either.
> 
> However, it is your decision.....
> 
> Mr. A


the ODNR is understaffed and im sure they have better things to do at this time of the year than petty orange clothing violations, what youre suggesting is wrong to me. "because they wont show its fine?"this is why im not a fan of you.. always looking for the "out' as ive said massy, pay the fine and be done..


----------



## Ozdog

I'll have to agree with ezbite, for goy who's " all or nothing" when it comes to the law. Trying to weasel out it of seems kind of chicken crap. You broke the law & got caught, face it like man.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Ozdog said:


> I'll have to agree with ezbite, for goy who's " all or nothing" when it comes to the law. Trying to weasel out it of seems kind of chicken crap. You broke the law & got caught, face it like man.


I never said I wasn't in violation of the law. Until this afternoon, I didn't even have a choice but to goto court. It was initially "must appear". I'm just weighing my options as I wasn't really expecting the option to pay by waiver. I'm going to pay for sure, but id rather take the cheaper route if possible!


----------



## Ozdog

I'm not trying to grill ya bro, but you do owe it to the ODNR and the State to pay the fine. Violations are violations, your guilty. That's what we pay these folks to do, police the fish & game laws.


----------



## lotaluck

MassillonBuckeye said:


> . I don't think that classifies me a criminal, which is essentially what this charge is doing.


Actually is does classify you as a criminal. I went back and starting reading many of your posts on here and it suprises me that you would try to weasel out by hoping the ticketing officer does not show up.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Ozdog said:


> I'm not trying to grill ya bro, but you do owe it to the ODNR and the State to pay the fine. Violations are violations, your guilty. That's what we pay these folks to do, police the fish & game laws.


And I appreciate the work they do and was sure to tell them during our talk. I "took it like a man" which is why he called me today with the changes. I get ya. I did the crime, I'll do the time


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

lotaluck said:


> Actually is does classify you as a criminal. I went back and starting reading many of your posts on here and it suprises me that you would try to weasel out by hoping the ticketing officer does not show up.


I wasn't pursuing that angle at all really, I asked him if that's true because I don't think it is. Especially when he required me to show. Lol... I really just wanted to make sure I wasn't paying more via mail than I would going into court. Hard to find any info on what the fines end up being.


----------



## sherman51

the one thing you need to think about is if you go to court they could raise your fine and court costs. so the cheaper way out might just be to pay the fine.

I got caught for speeding here awhile back. I thought about going to court and telling my story. I was behind this car and it kept speeding up and then slowing down, so when I came to a passing zone I past the car. the officer even told me the reason he gave me the ticket was because the other car was up to 59 mph by the time I got around him. I got up to 80 mph to get around the car, but the officer wrote the ticket for running 70 in a 55. I decided to just pay the 138.00 fine and be done with it. I could have really made a stink for the officer for writing the ticket for 70 when I was running 80. but anything over 15 mph over the limit can be reckless driving. so would they have threw out the ticket or charged me with reckless driving?? just pay the fine.
sherman


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

sherman51 said:


> the one thing you need to think about is if you go to court they could raise your fine and court costs. so the cheaper way out might just be to pay the fine.
> 
> I got caught for speeding here awhile back. I thought about going to court and telling my story. I was behind this car and it kept speeding up and then slowing down, so when I came to a passing zone I past the car. the officer even told me the reason he gave me the ticket was because the other car was up to 59 mph by the time I got around him. I got up to 80 mph to get around the car, but the officer wrote the ticket for running 70 in a 55. I decided to just pay the 138.00 fine and be done with it. I could have really made a stink for the officer for writing the ticket for 70 when I was running 80. but anything over 15 mph over the limit can be reckless driving. so would they have threw out the ticket or charged me with reckless driving?? just pay the fine.
> sherman


While I agree, there are more implications to consider when talking about a criminal vs traffic offense I'd say. There is nothing else they could possibly charge me with so I'm not worried about that. The penalty Does carry up to 30 days in jail though...  can't find anything on how much the fine itself is.


----------



## ErieRider

For the recommendations to contest the ticket, that is your right and can't take that away from you. Guys telling you about officers not showing up and the case is dismissed. Keep in mind that at your first date you will enter a plea and the officer will not be present. Not guilty results in a new court date being set and then the officer being issued a subpoena. Many officers stake their reputation with the court on respecting the court and showing up, as that subpoena is a court order and not optional. So this means a second off day for the trial. The state/officer can be issued a continuance as well to not disobey the court. So possibly a third day off. Some officers will be vigilent about keeping in contact with prosecutors.
If you feel that you truly did not break the law then use your constitutional rights to plead your case. If not it is your call to be at the mercy of the court.
The lesson learned either way is to review the booklet given to you with your license.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## P-NUT

I forgot a pop can sitting on a post at North Res. one day and received a ticket for littering before I made it out of the parking lot. Was required to appear in court. I explained to the judge that it was an honest mistake and I had just forgotten to pick up the can. Charges were dismissed and was ordered to only pay court cost. 70 dollars for the county and 70 dollars for the odnr. That's 140 bucks even though there were no charges! Further ahead to just pay the 160 and be done with it.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

ErieRider said:


> For the recommendations to contest the ticket, that is your right and can't take that away from you. Guys telling you about officers not showing up and the case is dismissed. Keep in mind that at your first date you will enter a plea and the officer will not be present. Not guilty results in a new court date being set and then the officer being issued a subpoena. Many officers stake their reputation with the court on respecting the court and showing up, as that subpoena is a court order and not optional. So this means a second off day for the trial. The state/officer can be issued a continuance as well to not disobey the court. So possibly a third day off. Some officers will be vigilent about keeping in contact with prosecutors.
> If you feel that you truly did not break the law then use your constitutional rights to plead your case. If not it is your call to be at the mercy of the court.
> The lesson learned either way is to review the booklet given to you with your license.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Thanks for the response,

No, I know I broke the law. Did I realize I was breaking the law? Does it matter? Not really when it comes to guilt, I'm guilty, but I think it should when it comes to penalty. Should I have to pay maximum penalty? I would sure hope not in this case. Probably carries $1000-2500 max fine and 30 days in jail? For not having enough hunter orange as an archery hunter in an archery only area when there were going to be no other gun hunters around?

Yep, got the book right here. Took the hunter education course last year. I'm on their website all the time as well. I knew the regs, I didn't think about the youth season for whatever reason. It's inexcusable. It's a mistake that won't happen again believe me.

I regret people having to take the time out of their day to mess with me when there's certainly bigger fish to fry. I would never want to prolong something like this for days and days thats just ridiculous. End of the day it's the most minor of offenses and I really doubt it would have much affect on me in the future as I don't ever plan on getting in trouble again.. I made it 36 years before my first dumb mistake, I'll try to go another 36 before my second! lol


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

P-NUT said:


> I forgot a pop can sitting on a post at North Res. one day and received a ticket for littering before I made it out of the parking lot. Was required to appear in court. I explained to the judge that it was an honest mistake and I had just forgotten to pick up the can. Charges were dismissed and was ordered to only pay court cost. 70 dollars for the county and 70 dollars for the odnr. That's 140 bucks even though there were no charges! Further ahead to just pay the 160 and be done with it.


Sorry about your luck but thats good to hear! You don't hear too many people getting popped for littering, but there is surely plenty of litter everywhere!


----------



## F1504X4

Would suggest you just pay it. Yes the Officers are busy but if they have to go to court then they will. They can't just not show up if it goes to trial. If you end up wanting to contest it and it goes to trial then you either have to represent yourself, with the I didn't know argument or hire a lawyer. Your best bet is to cut your losses and move on. From experience, I've never seen the "I didn't know" thing work out well for anybody. It's always our responsibility as citizens and sportsmen to know the laws. Sorry you got tagged for it though! Live and learn. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## tehsavage

OGF idea : On or near the listing for the hunting forum area, put some kind of an announcement / reminder when its an upcoming gun season when you need to wear orange. Come on all you people bashing the guy, you've never made a mistake? EVER? As a website for sportsman we should all have eachothers back, especially reminding people to wear orange during gun seasons, not only to save people from tickets but to save lives.


----------



## Gills63

The max fine for an M4 is 250. (ORC 2929.28). Obviously plus court costs if you want to go to the show.

I have to urge you to be careful with your "archery only area" notion. You may be surprised how often people and/or projectiles show up where they aren't supposed to be.

Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## NorthSouthOhioFisherman

If you were wearing an orange cap I could see how you were wearing orange like the law says. Is there some gap there on the amount? With a lawyer I'm sure it would be gone. Anything is possible with enough money. Don't get in trouble for something that minor and accidental.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Yeah, I should be able to pay it online on Tuesday. We'll just roll with it. Lesson learned.


----------



## jamesbalog

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Sorry about your luck but thats good to hear! You don't hear too many people getting popped for littering, but there is surely plenty of litter everywhere!


I got one in lorain for the lid of a worm container when I was 18.... and trust me paying the 140 court cost was much cheaper than the ticket I got.

Sent from my LG-LS855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## zeppelin_2000

Sorry to here about your ticket, everybody makes mistakes pay the fine and go hunting.
When I bow hunted every year I sat down with the regs and date tables and then made a cheat sheet with the days/weeks that you needed to show hunter orange and put them in a second licence holder with my jacket. One quick look and you know if you need to grab the orange.
Keep extra orang in the car just in case I didn't look at it right the first time as I also looked again before leaving the truck.
Live and learn I have my orange but did i bring my broad heads, arrows, BOW yes forgot all of them one time or the other, includes my box of slugs on opening day in the truck after a 2 mile walk to my stand and empty pockets. That was a long walk of shame back to the truck! LOL 

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Lundy

tehsavage said:


> OGF idea : On or near the listing for the hunting forum area, put some kind of an announcement / reminder when its an upcoming gun season when you need to wear orange. Come on all you people bashing the guy, you've never made a mistake? EVER? As a website for sportsman we should all have eachothers back, especially reminding people to wear orange during gun seasons, not only to save people from tickets but to save lives.


You mean like this?

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=242342


----------



## Archery Patriot

Like the others said, pay your fine ....lesson learned!


----------



## M.Magis

NorthSouthOhioFisherman said:


> If you were wearing an orange cap I could see how you were wearing orange like the law says. Is there some gap there on the amount? With a lawyer I'm sure it would be gone. Anything is possible with enough money. Don't get in trouble for something that minor and accidental.


Have you never read the regulations? The law is very clear, no lawyer is going to change that. Be careful giving legal advice, particularly when you don't understand the laws in the first place. 
I think P-NUT's experience is what you'd find as well. They won't drop the charges, but the charge would be reduced. But by the time you pay court costs, it's a wash.


----------



## Bonemann

A few years back a couple of my buds were fishing the rocks below Pike Island dam (Mrtwister and Fishin Joe).

A summer down pour blew in and both of them left a pop can on the rocks.

An ODNR officer met them at their vehicle and gave both tickets for littering.

Mrtwister payed by mail, Joe didn't have the funds and went to court. Although he plead "no contest" the judge fined him twice what Mrtwister paid along with court cost and threw in 50 hours of community service for good measure.

Take it for what it's worth. I would pay and move on.


----------



## treytd32

The only benefit of going to court would be if there were some way to have the charges off your record. It will cost you either way. 

Got a speeding ticket in nc accelerating to pass a tractor trailer before he ran me over as he entered the highway. It was 4am on a road trip to visit a friend in Miami with no other cars or people for miles besides me the trucker and the cop parked behind a broken down car on the side of the highway. Other lane was closed so I couldn't get over out of the trucks way. Accelerated to 82 in 65. Mandatory to appear in court in nc for tickets 15 mph over or speeding over 70. Suspended license also applies to those guidelines. Had to hire a lawyer to appear in court for me to say I accept the charges vs making the 9 hour drive to do so myself. My side of the story didn't matter to the officer or the court despite being respectful in my statements to both and yours likely won't either, just how the system works. All in all that was a 675 speeding ticket. First and only time I've ever been pulled over for anything in my life.

And no it was not a posted construction zone for those wondering if that added to the fine


----------



## ironman172

I hope the ignorance of the law, works out for you....as hunters, it is our responsibility to know such laws and follow them ....
and you should hope there isn't a ODNR officer on here to follow this thread and pass it on....I don't see some comments from you, helping one bit.


----------



## sherman51

you have been slammed pretty hard for just asking if you could maby get your fine lowered by going to court. and you have taken it well.

I have a friend down in tenn and he got a speeding ticket. he was a truck driver and drove millions of miles he is about 70 yrs old and has drove all his life and never had a ticket for anything. so he chose to go to court and tell all this to the judge. well it worked for him. the judge believed he had just made a mistake and wasn't speeding on purpose. so the judge dismissed his ticket. so it can be done. but im doubtful you would be so lucky but you could go tell your story and see how the judge looks at it.

your 1st hearing is just that a hearing. the leo doesn't have to show up. if you plead not guilty they will set you a trial date. then you will need a lawyer or plead the case by yourself. and the leo would be there for your trial. or you can plead guilty with special circumstances. then the judge should listen to your story and then decide what to do with you. he could just dismiss the ticket outright or he could just say you should know the laws about your sport and throw the book at you. so its your decision, do you plead your case and throw yourself on the mercy of the court or do you just pay the fine. but remember they can charge you more than the ticket if you show up for a hearing. but it is your right to be heard.
sherman


----------



## My Demeyes

you could also possibly reach an agreement with the odnr to have the charge dropped completely, nothing on your record. This will probably cost you more than the original fine, more like $500, after all its your money they want.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

ironman172 said:


> I hope the ignorance of the law, works out for you....as hunters, it is our responsibility to know such laws and follow them ....
> and you should hope there isn't a ODNR officer on here to follow this thread and pass it on....I don't see some comments from you, helping one bit.


Never said I was ignorant of the law, I'm not sure where you would get that. I've stated multiple times I've read the regulations, and understood them. I've taken full responsibility for my actions multiple times here. And also said it was inexcusable whether an honest mistake or not. I posted knowing full well there are ODNR employees browsing these forums. I did it. I'm guilty. I've got nothing to hide. I was concerned about the penalty phase. There are varying degrees of penalties in these cases. If you don't feel I should be treated lightly in this case, you are certainly entitled to that opinion. The issuing officer would disagree with you though. While unwilling to make it a warning, he could have made it a lot worse for me. Which I do appreciate. That's what people seem to be missing here. It's not about right or wrong, I was wrong. It's about to deal with it and how much I now have to pay! Never been through anything like this before.


----------



## M.Magis

My Demeyes said:


> you could also possibly reach an agreement with the odnr to have the charge dropped completely, nothing on your record. This will probably cost you more than the original fine, more like $500, after all its your money they want.


Can you elaborate? Or are you making this up?


----------



## Just Fishin'

I'm in agreement with a few guys on here on the suggestion to just pay the fine and use this as a learning experience. While it sucks, these things do happen.. we are all humans and we all make mistakes. You have accepted that you made a mistake and are accepting responsibility.. why a couple guys have to bash you for it, I really don't understand. Kinda makes many of us think twice about posting a question on here... 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## tehsavage

Lundy said:


> You mean like this?
> 
> http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=242342


Yes like that!!  


I don't frequent the hunting section often my B! 


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Jigging Jim

The Warden probably could not attend Court on your Court Time - so He called You and gave You a "Break" - so that You will just Pay the Fine by Mail. If You show up in Court and He does not, You might get an even bigger Break. It's a Gamble - but You have a Conscience - don't You?


----------



## Jigging Jim

sherman51 said:


> the one thing you need to think about is if you go to court they could raise your fine and court costs. so the cheaper way out might just be to pay the fine.
> 
> I got caught for speeding here awhile back. I thought about going to court and telling my story. I was behind this car and it kept speeding up and then slowing down, so when I came to a passing zone I past the car. the officer even told me the reason he gave me the ticket was because the other car was up to 59 mph by the time I got around him. I got up to 80 mph to get around the car, but the officer wrote the ticket for running 70 in a 55. I decided to just pay the 138.00 fine and be done with it. I could have really made a stink for the officer for writing the ticket for 70 when I was running 80. but anything over 15 mph over the limit can be reckless driving. so would they have threw out the ticket or charged me with reckless driving?? just pay the fine.
> sherman


I remember you telling us about this one, Sherman.


----------



## treytd32

sherman51 said:


> I have a friend down in tenn and he got a speeding ticket. he was a truck driver and drove millions of miles he is about 70 yrs old and has drove all his life and never had a ticket for anything. so he chose to go to court and tell all this to the judge. well it worked for him. the judge believed he had just made a mistake and wasn't speeding on purpose. so the judge dismissed his ticket.


Wait, so despite being found to have been speeding because he wasn't doing it on purpose/knowingly the ticket got dropped? I was informed that it is the responsibility of the operator to know/maintain legal speed. So can a judge have anything dropped against you if they find it to have been circumstantially accidental despite being guilty? Or did he plead not guilty and say he was not speeding and they couldn't prove it? I'm highly confused because I had a friend get a speeding ticket while on cruise control for going 2 mph over while going downhill and it stuck... so when is the law actually the law and not someone's judgment based on demographic? 

Not ranting, I honestly just want to know, maybe if any LE or former judges read this they could enlighten me so I know for the future, pm is fine if you want to keep it private.


----------



## Mr. A

treytd32 said:


> Wait, so despite being found to have been speeding because he wasn't doing it on purpose/knowingly the ticket got dropped? I was informed that it is the responsibility of the operator to know/maintain legal speed. So can a judge have anything dropped against you if they find it to have been circumstantially accidental despite being guilty? Or did he plead not guilty and say he was not speeding and they couldn't prove it? I'm highly confused because I had a friend get a speeding ticket while on cruise control for going 2 mph over while going downhill and it stuck... so when is the law actually the law and not someone's judgment based on demographic?
> 
> Not ranting, I honestly just want to know, maybe if any LE or former judges read this they could enlighten me so I know for the future, pm is fine if you want to keep it private.


In Ohio cops can actually sight judge your speed and ticket you for it. No need to have proof as the law recognizes an officer's ability and judgement based upon their profession, training, and experience rather or not they have any. 

And judges can dismiss any charge they want to. People plead their case and if the judge wants their ticket is dismissed. Doesn't happen too often but it does happen. Most times the tickets are dismissed or plead down because the office is a no show and the prosecutors can't force a continuance upon the court.

So to answer your question; the law is the law as long as it coincides with the wishes of the individual imposing their discretion. Criminal trials are about what you can make 12 people believe, not the truth. Civil trials are about making the other guy 51% responsible, not what is fair.


Mr. A


----------



## Hardtop

Even odnr officers and managers make "mistakes" as we have seen over the last few years... Heck...some of them just ignor their own regulations and forge documents to allow out of state odnr buds to come and poach our deer..... what kind of example do they set from the top down...? Then as we read here, they slap silly heavy fines on us the one time we make an honest mistake for hunter orange or a pop can or one little perch over a five man limit..... has anyone here ever gotten a "warning" for a minor traffic violation......yep me too..... But you will never hear of odnr issuing a warning. this is the crap/cowboy mentality they should be forced to change in Columbus. Every outdoorsman should get one "mistake" or mulligan for there first petty violation, once you are in their books for that initial warning, I have no problem with fines.


----------



## My Demeyes

M.Magis said:


> Can you elaborate? Or are you making this up?


A few years ago I was hunting with a group doing deer drives. was checked by game warden, all fine. Two weeks later we all got tickets in the mail for hunting without permission. The game warden checked the written permission at the time of the stop, all fine. I was present a couple weeks prior when the permission was granted, right before youth season. The ODNR area supervisor went to the land owner and persuaded her to press charges, that's how we all got tickets. We went to court three times, one of the hunters got a lawyer and got all charges dismissed for $500 each. From that day on, I have lost all respect for the ODNR.


----------



## M.Magis

My Demeyes said:


> A few years ago I was hunting with a group doing deer drives. was checked by game warden, all fine. Two weeks later we all got tickets in the mail for hunting without permission. The game warden checked the written permission at the time of the stop, all fine. I was present a couple weeks prior when the permission was granted, right before youth season. The ODNR area supervisor went to the land owner and persuaded her to press charges, that's how we all got tickets. We went to court three times, one of the hunters got a lawyer and got all charges dismissed for $500 each. From that day on, I have lost all respect for the ODNR.


That hurts my head to even try to understand how that was allowed to happen. That's a crappy deal.


----------



## My Demeyes

M.Magis said:


> That hurts my head to even try to understand how that was allowed to happen. That's a crappy deal.


I still get mad thinking about it, if the warden wants to get you, they will somehow. I still believe it's all about the money.


----------



## Roscoe

If you go to court,the Officer probably won't be there.You have to plead.If you say you are not guilty the Judge will set up another hearing in which the Officer WILL be there.The only way to get it dismissed is to get the odds in your favor,which might be difficult to do.So pay up!!

Ask the Judge, please let me off because I was Deer hunting in an Archery Zone and I didn't mean to? Big laughs from the Courtroom!!!

Roscoe


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Roscoe said:


> If you go to court,the Officer probably won't be there.You have to plead.If you say you are not guilty the Judge will set up another hearing in which the Officer WILL be there.The only way to get it dismissed is to get the odds in your favor,which might be difficult to do.So pay up!!
> 
> Ask the Judge, please let me off because I was Deer hunting in an Archery Zone and I didn't mean to? Big laughs from the Courtroom!!!
> 
> Roscoe


I would have been telling the judge, " I am guilty of not wearing enough hunter orange. I was deer hunting in an Archery Only ZONE with ONLY a hunter orange cap. Which I realize then and now is not adequate for ANY gun season on ANY land. EVEN THOUGH NOONE is permitted to use guns at ANY time where I hunt, I realize the regulations say I have to wear adequate hunter orange during ANY gun seasons including both muzzle loader seasons and youth gun. I simply didn't realize youth gun season started which I have since marked on my calendar" I'd have plead no contest. I'd also have been wearing my hunter orange vest to court. The ranger also told me he was leaving notes for the court regarding my demeanor and handling of the situation which would have also worked in my favor.

Its not like I was out during Regular gun season on land where other gun hunters were or even worse Out of season and out of compliance. Which is why they took it easy on me. I'm not trying to justify my actions, if I would have realized, I would have had my vest on. Period. Im just saying why a judge, or in my case the ranger, might decide to give me a break and why I made this post in the first place.


----------



## Flathead76

Just take your lumps and pay the fine. If you wouldnt of worn the orange cap you probably wouldnt even gotten a ticket because the warden wouldnt of seen you coming outta the woods. Sad but true. They just want to make names for themselves and writting tickets is how they get it done. By the time you take off work and pay court cost it will cost you more money. It sucks but ignorance is no excuse. You really dont have a leg to stand on here. Just pay the fine and move on.


----------



## Cajunsaugeye

I really can't say what a judge might do.If it were me,I'd dismiss it.I see your point about forgetting about it as I did the exact same thing a couple yrs ago.Luckily,I didn't get caught.(I've deer hunted over 25yrs and forgot!).You also may have a case being in an archery only area.Not as in making it right but maybe seeing your thinking and being lenient about this.But,maybe not.People are different and you'd be taking a chance getting a judge that sees it your way. So Ayways,the general consensus is just pay the fine and I completely agree w/that.While you MAY get it reduced further or even dismissed,you may not also.Seems like a big headache with court dates,missed work,etc. when you can just pay and be done.

Sent from my VS870 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Ozdog

My Demeyes said:


> A few years ago I was hunting with a group doing deer drives. was checked by game warden, all fine. Two weeks later we all got tickets in the mail for hunting without permission. The game warden checked the written permission at the time of the stop, all fine. I was present a couple weeks prior when the permission was granted, right before youth season. The ODNR area supervisor went to the land owner and persuaded her to press charges, that's how we all got tickets. We went to court three times, one of the hunters got a lawyer and got all charges dismissed for $500 each. From that day on, I have lost all respect for the ODNR.


That's B.S.! But that kind of crap goes on.
I got 30 acres behind the house but sometimes hunt on guy's I've known all my life & worked for when I was a boy. I never carry written permission on my person, on the other hand the guy's would laugh at any authority wanting them to press charges of any type. My life has been pretty sheltered in respects to permission and the like.


----------



## jray

did you walk in at 3:15 and walk back out at 4:30? if so i saw you it is ridiculous to wear full orange in a bow only area but hey thats what keeps the reg book from being 30,000 pages long to accommodate the exemptions. Tough luck on the rookie moved and lesson learned. If you walked out at 4:30 and spooked my deer shame on you though


----------



## Lundy

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I would have been telling the judge, " I am guilty of not wearing enough hunter orange. I was deer hunting in an Archery Only ZONE with ONLY a hunter orange cap. Which I realize then and now is not adequate for ANY gun season on ANY land. EVEN THOUGH NOONE is permitted to use guns at ANY time where I hunt, I realize the regulations say I have to wear adequate hunter orange during ANY gun seasons including both muzzle loader seasons and youth gun. I simply didn't realize youth gun season started which I have since marked on my calendar" I'd have plead no contest. I'd also have been wearing my hunter orange vest to court. The ranger also told me he was leaving notes for the court regarding my demeanor and handling of the situation which would have also worked in my favor.
> 
> .


Here is the problem with your argument.

1. You didn't know it was youth season - no good excuse for that.

2. You were wearing an orange hat - Why? it is a bow only area and you stated you didn't know it was youth season. 

3. Bow only area - assumes other hunters KNOW it is a bow only area and they aren't hunting with guns during the youth season. If YOU didn't know the dates for the youth season maybe other hunters didn't know that was a bow ONLY and you get shot because you are not wearing orange. 

I would pay my fine and move on if it were me.


----------



## IGbullshark

it seems to me like you already caught some leniency with the charge being reduced! as far as the officer not showing up, a close friend of mine got a speeding ticket from a DNR officer for speeding in a park. my friend decided to dispute it and took it to court and the officer did in fact show up.


----------



## Cajunsaugeye

Lundy,he already said many posts ago that he ALWAYS wears an orange hat because he feels safer and good for him for doing so.He seems a good,conscientious hunter who made a mistake and got caught.I believe,whole heartedly,he would have been wearing a vest also had he been aware it was youth season,even in the bow only area.I don't know this person from Adam,but all you have to do is read what he's saying and everyone should get it.Anyways,don't bother w/court.More hassle than its gonna be worth unless you luck into a judge that will see all your points and have leniency.Not that he would say you're not guilty,because technically you are,but would lower or dismiss because of your attitude to the officer and the other"circumstances".Just pay it and go on enjoying hunting.Its actually good to know they're out there even though the way you met him sucks!

Sent from my VS870 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Weekender#1

I say fight it, the judge is probably a drunk and the game warden an idiot. Tell the judge you were hunting in a non-hunting area, he will drop the charges and buy you a drink. May put the officer up on notice for bothering you. 
You could end up with the best lesson in life, learning how the goverment cares and make you feel nice, warm and fuzzy. Tell them your home taxes are too high while you have a moment with the judge, he will probably lower them for you. 
Good Job.


----------



## physco1973

As a state employee of this wonderful state. Go to court and explain the situation. I try to respect the law but the idiot odnr officers we have in this state most of them don't know there head from there butt. We have one good officer for every 10 bad ones. He should have given you a warning. They need to treat people the way they would want to be treated. If you go to court where a suit and tie. Dress real respectful. Explain the situation they won't give you anymore than what you already got. We are taught to respect authority bit its kinda hard when they don't respect themselves.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

jray said:


> did you walk in at 3:15 and walk back out at 4:30? if so i saw you it is ridiculous to wear full orange in a bow only area but hey thats what keeps the reg book from being 30,000 pages long to accommodate the exemptions. Tough luck on the rookie moved and lesson learned. If you walked out at 4:30 and spooked my deer shame on you though


My hunt was done when the came walking up to me. I was standing beside a tree 75 feet from the road across from my silver jeep. Just got done watching 2 does cross the road and run past me as well.. heh. I walked out with the 2 wildlife officers. We were never really in the woods though, right on the edge. Sorry if we messed your hunt up  Keep at it, I'm sure you'll get one if we're talking about the same place. PM me if you want to share info.


----------



## BaddFish

My Demeyes said:


> A few years ago I was hunting with a group doing deer drives. was checked by game warden, all fine. Two weeks later we all got tickets in the mail for hunting without permission. The game warden checked the written permission at the time of the stop, all fine. I was present a couple weeks prior when the permission was granted, right before youth season. The ODNR area supervisor went to the land owner and persuaded her to press charges, that's how we all got tickets. We went to court three times, one of the hunters got a lawyer and got all charges dismissed for $500 each. From that day on, I have lost all respect for the ODNR.


WOW! Shocking.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Lundy said:


> Here is the problem with your argument.
> 
> 1. You didn't know it was youth season - no good excuse for that.
> 
> 2. You were wearing an orange hat - Why? it is a bow only area and you stated you didn't know it was youth season.
> 
> 3. Bow only area - assumes other hunters KNOW it is a bow only area and they aren't hunting with guns during the youth season. If YOU didn't know the dates for the youth season maybe other hunters didn't know that was a bow ONLY and you get shot because you are not wearing orange.
> 
> I would pay my fine and move on if it were me.


1. I don't have an excuse. GUILTY!

2. I err on the side of caution. I want people to see me. Its a very busy area, deer, joggers, hunters, kids, its crazy actually. I don't think the deer care about orange. I'll probably wear that hat every time I'm in the woods this winter.

3. Its gated and locked. People hunting the youth gun season would have had secured entry thus knowing it was, and always will be archery only.
Maybe I should have disclosed this from the get go. Its gated and locked. If you WERE to walk in, its clearly marked throughout the area either NO HUNTING ZONE, or ARCHERY HUNTING ONLY.


----------



## GOLDFISH

I seen the post with a phone call about reducing the charge but did you get something in writing from him? 

And I am taking it he caught you with bow in hand? 

I am not going to bash odnr there are good there bad years ago on Dillion state park my dad and I were gun hunting I was a youth so he was not to be carrying and was officer checked us and said he was not citing a father son for enjoying hunting but did however say if anything illegal was being done the charge would be added. 
I also been checked on State route 33 duck hunting in Carroll by an Officer To be honest it takes balls walking up to a group of guys with loaded shotguns to find out if there doing anything illegal. I would not have wanted to be that officer if we were a group of law breakers I am sure they deal with all kinds.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Cajunsaugeye said:


> Lundy,he already said many posts ago that he ALWAYS wears an orange hat because he feels safer and good for him for doing so.He seems a good,conscientious hunter who made a mistake and got caught.I believe,whole heartedly,he would have been wearing a vest also had he been aware it was youth season,even in the bow only area.I don't know this person from Adam,but all you have to do is read what he's saying and everyone should get it.Anyways,don't bother w/court.More hassle than its gonna be worth unless you luck into a judge that will see all your points and have leniency.Not that he would say you're not guilty,because technically you are,but would lower or dismiss because of your attitude to the officer and the other"circumstances".Just pay it and go on enjoying hunting.Its actually good to know they're out there even though the way you met him sucks!
> 
> Sent from my VS870 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


They also told me they were leaving notes for the judge, that he would indeed see about my demeanor and how I handled it. I never asked for a warning, but I really don't know why he didn't just give me a warning. Wish I woulda had the vest and my reg book in my jeep. I will from now on believe me. Had everything else. Game tags, deer tags, license, driver license etc. Thanks for the vote of confidence! I really was/am trying to do the right thing out there.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

GOLDFISH said:


> I seen the post with a phone call about reducing the charge but did you get something in writing from him?
> 
> And I am taking it he caught you with bow in hand?
> 
> I am not going to bash odnr there are good there bad years ago on Dillion state park my dad and I were gun hunting I was a youth so he was not to be carrying and was officer checked us and said he was not citing a father son for enjoying hunting but did however say if anything illegal was being done the charge would be added.
> I also been checked on State route 33 duck hunting in Carroll by an Officer To be honest it takes balls walking up to a group of guys with loaded shotguns to find out if there doing anything illegal. I would not have wanted to be that officer if we were a group of law breakers I am sure they deal with all kinds.


I have the written ticket of the offense with the M-3 charge from Saturday. He called me sunday afternoon and told me about reducing the charge to M-4 which I didn't really ask the details on that but uh.. I don't have anything but that original ticket. I had the bow on my back in a sling yes. I think they were observing me for a while.. The time on the ticket and the time he stated was 2:30pm... They didn't approach me until 4 something. I didn't question it, I just assumed the were watching me from a distance for a while since I was so close to the road... Obviously not hiding anything LOL!


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

physco1973 said:


> As a state employee of this wonderful state. Go to court and explain the situation. I try to respect the law but the idiot odnr officers we have in this state most of them don't know there head from there butt. We have one good officer for every 10 bad ones. He should have given you a warning. They need to treat people the way they would want to be treated. If you go to court where a suit and tie. Dress real respectful. Explain the situation they won't give you anymore than what you already got. We are taught to respect authority bit its kinda hard when they don't respect themselves.


Thanks for the encouragement. Kinda how I felt, but it is what it is. I certainly wasn't trying to make trouble for anyone that day.. So its Youth hunting season, all those fathers and sons out learning lessons etc, and here the park rangers are wasting their time messing with me. In an area there were to be no fathers and son teams youth hunting. Its making less and less sense the more I think about it.

I already took the day off since he told me I had no choice but to appear. Bah!


----------



## GOLDFISH

I would have something in writing saying you don't need to appear before you don't go and end up with a warrant for your arrest.


----------



## GOLDFISH

I will post this question like this, What keeps a hunter from being charged with hunting to early that is in his stand one hour before sunrise?


----------



## floater99

Pay the 160,and get a receipt.I made 3 trips DwnTwn seen a pub def before I paid 100 fine.
Total parking lunches travel ruffly cost me abt 300.All for not having one of my duck stamps OOPS


----------



## Lundy

GOLDFISH said:


> I will post this question like this, What keeps a hunter from being charged with hunting to early that is in his stand one hour before sunrise?


A unloaded weapon


----------



## treytd32

Mr. A said:


> In Ohio cops can actually sight judge your speed and ticket you for it. No need to have proof as the law recognizes an officer's ability and judgement based upon their profession, training, and experience rather or not they have any.
> 
> And judges can dismiss any charge they want to. People plead their case and if the judge wants their ticket is dismissed. Doesn't happen too often but it does happen. Most times the tickets are dismissed or plead down because the office is a no show and the prosecutors can't force a continuance upon the court.
> 
> So to answer your question; the law is the law as long as it coincides with the wishes of the individual imposing their discretion. Criminal trials are about what you can make 12 people believe, not the truth. Civil trials are about making the other guy 51% responsible, not what is fair.
> 
> 
> Mr. A


thanks Mr. A, I knew as much about the latter but never knew judges actually did that for citations etc., always figured the court would take the money.. maybe when I'm old and gray or finally get the money to finish paying for these breast implants I'll get off easier, obviously one boob isn't enough


----------



## nturner

They should have two requirements for all public servants. Intelligence and decency. It just might work. They certainly haven't tried it yet.


----------



## Jigging Jim

Weekender#1 said:


> I say fight it, the judge is probably a drunk and the game warden an idiot. Tell the judge you were hunting in a non-hunting area, he will drop the charges and buy you a drink. May put the officer up on notice for bothering you.
> You could end up with the best lesson in life, learning how the goverment cares and make you feel nice, warm and fuzzy. Tell them your home taxes are too high while you have a moment with the judge, he will probably lower them for you.
> Good Job.


Good One, Weekender!


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Paid in full. Live and learn.


----------



## Photog

I know this is a bit late, but I work downstairs from the Delaware muni court at DPD (i'm a civilian). I see ODNR guys going up to court all of the time. Just for future reference....


----------



## crittergitter

MassillonBuckeye said:


> 1. I don't have an excuse. GUILTY!
> 
> 2. I err on the side of caution. I want people to see me. Its a very busy area, deer, joggers, hunters, kids, its crazy actually. I don't think the deer care about orange. I'll probably wear that hat every time I'm in the woods this winter.
> 
> 3. Its gated and locked. People hunting the youth gun season would have had secured entry thus knowing it was, and always will be archery only.
> Maybe I should have disclosed this from the get go. Its gated and locked. If you WERE to walk in, its clearly marked throughout the area either NO HUNTING ZONE, or ARCHERY HUNTING ONLY.


Lots of houses in that area. There could even be someone that would take their kid into the woods to gun hunt thinking, "nobody will catch me as this is a non-hunting area of the park anyway." If he didn't try to drive in from the park entrance he wouldn't see the signs. Archery only doesn't mean your safe from some moron that doesn't have a clue. 

I have hunted there a few times, but the pressure is insane!!!


----------



## sherman51

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Paid in full. Live and learn.


sometimes its the best way to go. I think you had a pretty good excuse for not wearing your orange. and my personal opinion an archery only area shouldn't have to wear orange. but so many people trespass on private property they wouldn't even think twice about hunting an archery only property. so its for the archers own safety that they have this law. so now you can get on with your life.

there was these 2 guys that worked the same place I worked. they had a reputation of trespassing on private property if they seen a big buck they would hunt it. one early evening they were out driving and see this big buck standing over next to the woods. the owner of the truck was driving and he stops. the other guy gets out of the truck. the deer raises its head and it is a real trophy. the guy reaches behind the seat and grabs the owners gun. the owner thought something seemed off. so he starts hollering stop stop don't shoot. about that time the guy opens up and shoots the deer. about that time about 15 leo,s step out and say put the gun on the ground and get down. they took his truck and took his gun and he wasn't even the shooter. the last I heard he had got his truck back but they were still holding his gun.

my point is if someone would shoot a fake deer on private property don't you think they would take a shot at a big buck in an archery only area?? we all should wear our hunter orange even in bow season when guns are out there.

I do understand you made a mistake and forgot to keep up with the seasons. we all forget something at one time or other. we went to erie last july and when we got there we didn't have the ff/gps so my son had to make a trip back home to get it. the bad thing is this had happened once before. and my youngest son brought us the ff/gps. you would think I would learn before long. so with all the guys slamming you, take comfort in the fact that most of us have made some type of mistake in there life.
sherman


----------



## EYEFISHER2

Not to beat a dead horse but i dissagree with the LAW (i think it should be a RECOMMENDED)...to say u should have to wear orange because of gun hunting is rediculous in my opinion. Small game seasons are in where firearms are allowed with and without orange so i dont see what the difference is? You are not required to wear orange duning rabbit and pheasant seasons (ive personally seen several bow hunters over the years in trees while my family hunts pheasants on public land, some guys will have a piece of orange they start waving as you approach them. Then there are some that have nothing?) squirrl season is the same maybe worse, guys shooting rifles into treetops..so where should the line be drawn? And im only taking about bow hunters not HAVING to wear orange none of the other game seasons...i think its a good idea to atleast have some with u to get the attention of others but to make it mandatoy is just crazy talk. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?


----------



## Bubbagon

Hardtop said:


> Even odnr officers and managers make "mistakes" as we have seen over the last few years... Heck...some of them just ignor their own regulations and forge documents to allow out of state odnr buds to come and poach our deer..... what kind of example do they set from the top down...? Then as we read here, they slap silly heavy fines on us the one time we make an honest mistake for hunter orange or a pop can or one little perch over a five man limit..... has anyone here ever gotten a "warning" for a minor traffic violation......yep me too..... But you will never hear of odnr issuing a warning. this is the crap/cowboy mentality they should be forced to change in Columbus. Every outdoorsman should get one "mistake" or mulligan for there first petty violation, once you are in their books for that initial warning, I have no problem with fines.


How many "Oops, sorry" moments should a person with a lethal weapon be allowed? One warning, is that right? Sorry, I forgot to unload my gun. Sorry, I was too close to those houses. Sorry, I forgot to plug my gun.

Hunting is a BIG responsibility. And Sportsmen, not hunters, but sportsmen treat it as such. We have too many hunters in Ohio, and not enough sportsmen.

As far as the ODNR officers, you just couldn't be more wrong. Justice Nethero is the Delaware County officer, and you couldn't hope for a better, more fair guy who loves the outdoors.


----------



## Jigging Jim

Well, at least we have gained a little insight about this kind of situation - learning from someone else's mistake.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Being that it's my first year hunting deer, I hopefully have many more to come. Getting hemmed up on something like this so early in my career is a bit disheartening, but I don't really plan on any repeat offenses so hopefully it works out for me. Although I didn't really plan this one either... It is what it is. I probably won't be as happy to be ticketed next time on a technicality though I can tell you that much. This one could have easily been a warning, although I have no real issues wih how it was handled. Bottom line was I didn't have enough hunter orange given the season that had just started. Thanks for the support folks.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Jigging Jim said:


> Well, at least we have gained a little insight about this kind of situation - learning from someone else's mistake.


Yeah, which is partially why I posted here Jim.. Mane it'll help someone else down the road. I was trying to do some research on the process and there is very little info out there.. Many states don't have any such requirements. Not saying its a bad policy.

Now what about youth turkey season? Orange? It's a seasons that uses guns..


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

crittergitter said:


> Lots of houses in that area. There could even be someone that would take their kid into the woods to gun hunt thinking, "nobody will catch me as this is a non-hunting area of the park anyway." If he didn't try to drive in from the park entrance he wouldn't see the signs. Archery only doesn't mean your safe from some moron that doesn't have a clue.
> 
> I have hunted there a few times, but the pressure is insane!!!


Not sure if we're taking about he same place then. There's only one way in unless you wanted to walk a long distance, and it's clearly market at the entrance. And why would you want to walk all that way to basically hunt deer with a gun in someone's back yard? Eh. I mean I get it. Technically it could happen. And technically pigs could fly out my bottom! That's all really besides the point though. I have to be careful here as to not look like I'm trying to justify my actions because I'm not. It was wrong and I screwed up . I'll probably just wear my orange vest every time I'm out regardless. But apparently that in itself is enough to raise suspicions.


----------



## Flathead76

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Yeah, which is partially why I posted here Jim.. Mane it'll help someone else down the road. I was trying to do some research on the process and there is very little info out there.. Many states don't have any such requirements. Not saying its a bad policy.
> 
> Now what about youth turkey season? Orange? It's a seasons that uses guns..


No orange needed for turkey hunting. Birds can see color while deer can not. Just dont stalk turkey sounds. Always try to call the bird in. If you see another turkey hunter make sure to make your presence known.


----------



## Lundy

Hunter density during the deer gun seasons is very high over a few number of days. Hunter success rate apparently is not effected by orange. Much longer shots are taken during deer gun season and the lethal range of the slug is many times that of birdshot

Turkey hunter densities is much less and spread out over a longer period of time. A Turkey can see orange and it would have an impact of hunter success.

I was turkey hunting with a friend of mine when he was shot by another hunter who mistook him as a turkey. Had this same hunter of shot him with a slug thinking he was a deer he would have maybe been dead right now, instead he got a bunch of birdshot in him and a few surgery's but he is alive and well.

By the way I respect you for standing up and admitting your mistake and taking your lumps


----------



## AEFISHING

Trust me, just pain the fine. You will have court fees no matter what.


----------



## Photog

MB, your new avatar is priceless!


----------



## GARNERMAN357

My Demeyes said:


> I still get mad thinking about it, if the warden wants to get you, they will somehow. I still believe it's all about the money.


Its always been about the money and will always be. I have heard of other stories similar to this and have a hard time trusting people in authority bc of circumstances like this. fished with a guy from West virgina at berlin and several boats going much faster throwing a wake under a bridge didn't get pulled over but we got cited for throwing a wake under the 224 bridge. all I can say is know the laws and never make a mistake bc there is no mercy.


----------



## BMustang

I was tagged for a frivilous fishing violation by a rookie conservation officer in Indiana a few years back and decided to fight it.

Here's how it goes. Even if the judge sides with you, as mine did, he is sworn to uphold the laws of the state in which he presides. So long as the DNR pursues the charge, the judge has no option but to find you guilty.

In my case he fined me $5 and waived the court costs, which of course was a victory for my camp. He even told me that I had the right to appeal. He was quite pissed that the DNR would drag a law-abiding citizen into his court room when there were criminals out there to catch, and let them know it.


----------



## I Fish

MassillonBuckeye said:


> This one could have easily been a warning, although I have no real issues with how it was handled.


Yep. When have you ever heard of a GW giving a warning? It's rare at best. I'm so glad they are all law abiding citizens, that never make a mistake.

I'd go to court if I were you, but, that's just me. If nothing more, I'd be there to point out the fact that you have a spotless record, and don't feel a simple mistake should change that. Point out all the facts you have here, and the following confusion. 

If you do still get found guilty, you can have your record expunged after 1 year.


----------



## Lundy

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I probably won't be as happy to be ticketed next time on a technicality though I can tell you that much.


Being new to hunting I can see how you might think the hunter orange law a technicality, but...............

I was wearing some orange

I know my gun wasn't plugged but I only had three rounds in my gun

I only shot 5 minutes after the legal time and there was plenty of light for a safe shot

I know I shot too close to the house but no one lives there.

I know I shot across the road but there weren't any cars and it's a dirt road

I know I didn't tag the deer but I was going too I just forgot in my excitement.

I know I shouldn't have shot the second deer until I tagged the first but I had two tags.

I know I loaded my gun too early but I wasn't going to shoot until legal shooting time.

I know my gun was still loaded after legal shooting time but I was just walking to my car, I wasn't actually hunting.

I know I shined my headlights on the deer in the field but I wasn't going to shoot them.

This list could go on and on and on.

You didn't violate a technicality, you violated a very clear and important part of the law. 

You keep saying how you are accepting responsibility for your actions but then you qualify it with "technicality" diminishing you personal responsibility and assigning some level of injustice to the law and the officers.

If you are going to stand up stand all the way up


----------



## rangerpig250

Lundy said:


> Being new to hunting I can see how you might think the hunter orange law a technicality, but...............
> 
> I was wearing some orange
> 
> I know my gun wasn't plugged but I only had three rounds in my gun
> 
> I only shot 5 minutes after the legal time and there was plenty of light for a safe shot
> 
> I know I shot too close to the house but no one lives there.
> 
> I know I shot across the road but there weren't any cars and it's a dirt road
> 
> I know I didn't tag the deer but I was going too I just forgot in my excitement.
> 
> I know I shouldn't have shot the second deer until I tagged the first but I had two tags.
> 
> I know I loaded my gun too early but I wasn't going to shoot until legal shooting time.
> 
> I know my gun was still loaded after legal shooting time but I was just walking to my car, I wasn't actually hunting.
> 
> I know I shined my headlights on the deer in the field but I wasn't going to shoot them.
> 
> This list could go on and on and on.
> 
> You didn't violate a technicality, you violated a very clear and important part of the law.
> 
> You keep saying how you are accepting responsibility for your actions but then you qualify it with "technicality" diminishing you personal responsibility and assigning some level of injustice to the law and the officers.
> 
> If you are going to stand up stand all the way up


Well said!!!


----------



## GOLDFISH

Wrong Lundy, 

All your Phrases start with I KNOW If he would Have Known he would have been wearing the Orange vest

This is more of a not knowing what he should have known and had he known this thread would have never been started.


----------



## Lundy

GOLDFISH said:


> Wrong Lundy,
> 
> All your Phrases start with I KNOW If he would Have Known he would have been wearing the Orange vest
> 
> This is more of a not knowing what he should have known and had he known this thread would have never been started.


Only addressing his "technicality" after he NOW KNOWS the law


----------



## Jigging Jim

I have my Torch and Pitchfork ready - Let's Get Him!


----------



## rangerpig250

Jigging Jim said:


> I have my Torch and Pitchfork ready - Let's Get Him!


I have the matches


----------



## 9Left

Lundy said:


> Being new to hunting I can see how you might think the hunter orange law a technicality, but...............
> 
> I was wearing some orange
> 
> I know my gun wasn't plugged but I only had three rounds in my gun
> 
> I only shot 5 minutes after the legal time and there was plenty of light for a safe shot
> 
> I know I shot too close to the house but no one lives there.
> 
> I know I shot across the road but there weren't any cars and it's a dirt road
> 
> I know I didn't tag the deer but I was going too I just forgot in my excitement.
> 
> I know I shouldn't have shot the second deer until I tagged the first but I had two tags.
> 
> I know I loaded my gun too early but I wasn't going to shoot until legal shooting time.
> 
> I know my gun was still loaded after legal shooting time but I was just walking to my car, I wasn't actually hunting.
> 
> I know I shined my headlights on the deer in the field but I wasn't going to shoot them.
> 
> This list could go on and on and on.
> 
> You didn't violate a technicality, you violated a very clear and important part of the law.
> 
> You keep saying how you are accepting responsibility for your actions but then you qualify it with "technicality" diminishing you personal responsibility and assigning some level of injustice to the law and the officers.
> 
> If you are going to stand up stand all the way up


...so your first post ends with saying you respect him for standing up and admitting his mistake...now you post and trash the guy for not standing up?


...there are meds out there for mood swing disorders....check into it


----------



## Lundy

Yeah I know there are meds for that, do you have any I can have, and I do respect him for standing up to take some responsibility, I just take some exception to him saying that he was ticketed on a technicality, I had missed that part.

I'm sure he is a very nice guy, I don't in anyway think he is a bad person

I promise I am done


----------



## 9Left

Lundy said:


> Yeah I know there are meds for that, do you have any I can have, and I do respect him for standing up to take some responsibility, I just take some exception to him saying that he was ticketed on a technicality, I had missed that part.
> 
> I'm sure he is a very nice guy, I don't in anyway think he is a bad person
> 
> I promise I am done


Its all good... Jes messin with ya. :-D


----------



## LtMack

I could see the confusion if you only read "Hunter orange required" in the rule book. But the "Hunting other game during the deer hunting seasons" spells it out under the first section "Youth deer gun season". You won't get out of it. Pay the fine and waiver and chalk it up to a lesson learned. It will be on file with the ODNR and the municipal court of record. In a year with no more criminal offenses you can have it expunged from both places. There is no criminal record attached to you and you SSN with the state because you were not arrested and fingerprinted.


----------



## missionfishin

pretty sure he paid the fine in full a couple of days ago.


----------



## trickys10

the first thing i do before i get out of my vehicle to hunt is check the date on my phone. i look at the season date and bag limits page whether its in the book or on my phone. takes me 5 minutes while im eating a snack and grabbing a drink before i hit the stand. get out of the vehicle make sure i have the proper items from what i ve just read, grab my necessary items and off i go. end of 5 minutes


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

trickys10 said:


> the first thing i do before i get out of my vehicle to hunt is check the date on my phone. i look at the season date and bag limits page whether its in the book or on my phone. takes me 5 minutes while im eating a snack and grabbing a drink before i hit the stand. get out of the vehicle make sure i have the proper items from what i ve just read, grab my necessary items and off i go. end of 5 minutes


Good advice. I've got the pages bookmarked on my phone and am moving my printed regs to the Jeep. I was trying to get the 7 y.o interested in them. I ate that kinda stuff up as a kid.

And just to clarify, I knew then as I do know, hunter orange is required during ANY gun season, private or public land whether I'm hunting with a gun or not. Never disputed that or the fact that I was in violation of that law. As soon as they told me Youth Gun started that morning, I hung my head knowing what I had done. They didn't have to explain any further. So while I may have said "technicality", I really meant the most minor of offenses(given all the other variables involved that day). I thought I made that pretty clear in multiple posts in this thread. Oh well. I knew what I was getting into making this thread  I don't regret making this thread one bit.


----------



## Ted Dressel

pay your fine. I hunt the control hunt for the metro parks bow only. we have to wear hunter orange for youth hunts and gun week.


----------



## Cajunsaugeye

He did.Two weeks ago!

Sent from my VS870 4G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------

