# streamer question



## ryosapien (Jul 5, 2008)

I am fairly new to fly fishing/tying and have been trying to learn by using streamers for smallmouth bass. I tie mostly crawfish pattens, clousers, and whitlock matuka. I am a little confused and rather unsucessful in fishing them thusfar. I have read about swinging streamers. I usually cast across and slightly down and strip in quite fast so the streamer swings across current. I feel that this is only a brief presentation at best. I read somewhere that letting the steamer swing to get down into the strike zone and then slow strip the steamer in about 5 in at a time with intervals of 5 seconds. Will the steamer stay low enough to the bottom when being dragged up the current? i feel like the current would pull the streamer up (in the water column) and make it hold in the film, rendering it useless due to being out of the strike zone. I also am having issues casting stese heavy weighted streamers. When using a regular cast i drag the streamer close to surface and then i usually use a wide loop and am ok. Sometimes however there is a backdrop of tree and i must use a rollcast the weight on the line will cause the fly to swing way up in the air and enter the water loudly and quite shy of where i wish to be. This is frustrating. Any suggestions on types of streamers to use and ways of presenting would be helpful. THank you


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## plugman (Jul 15, 2008)

You can get the fly down a couple different ways. I learned these two techniques striped bass fishing in the river estuaries in New England. One is to put a small splitshot about 2 feet above the fly on your leader. Continue to use a floating line, which will allow you to control the swing of the fly, but the leader and fly will get down and stay down. Another way to get the fly down during the swing is to make a several sections of lead core line with loop to loop connections at each end (I just cut up old sinking lines). Make them in sections of varying lengths. I put the section of lead core between my main floating fly line and the leader, effectively making a changeable sink tip line. Depending on the speed of the current and the depth you want to attain, you vary the length of lead core.

You can extend the drift by mending the line and feeding line into the mend off your reel.

Hope this helps.


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## ryosapien (Jul 5, 2008)

a little but do i fish it back to me slow after the "swing" is complete or just reel in at that point. i used to spin fish and am so used to casting upstream this seems contraindicated. Also how can you tell how much split shot is enough. I mean is there a good strategy to adjustment? i just picked up some microshot and some "biostrike putty" indicator. btw if anyone is from the kent/akron area there is an amazing flyshop in ravenna called tmf you all probably know about it but i just stumbled upon this fly tyers heaven by accident and was like holy *&$&#37; there goes all my money


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## Wild One (Jul 3, 2008)

I think the best thing you can do for the purposes you suggested is use LESS weight on you flies and/or tippet. This will allow you to roll cast easier, but it still will not be easy. If you want to effectively roll cast streamers, then you need a shorter, stiffer leader/tippet, a weight forward line, and more aerodynamic/lighter flies. It is virtually impossible to roll cast a clouser minnow with any effectiveness. They're just too heavy and sit too far down in the water. All of the energy your putting into the rod is absorbed by the friction of the fly in water and all it does is pull the fly higher up in the water column!

I know you're thinking that less weight does not help you get further down in the water column--here's my answer to that. Instead of casting down stream at an angle, cast up stream at an angle and give the fly more time to sink into the stike zone. You'll have to mend well to keep a tight line and do NOT let the line get that 'belly' in it. If you get a strike with that belly in the line, you'll never be able to tell!

Now, it also sounds to me like you need to focus more on actually fishing the fly (expecting hits) when the fly is tumbling down stream and just after the line straightens out. If you can imagine what you fly is doing while the line straigtens out, you'll see why it's called "Swinging" Streamers. Focus on only fishing on the swing. This is when most of your strikes will come anyways. After the line straightens out and the 'swing' is complete, let it sit in one place (thus rising further up in the column) like a minnow struggling against it. You'll get a lot of hits this way as well. 

Very rarely do I get any hits when I'm stripping my fly back to me if there is much current to the water!

If you're fishing calm, still water then focus on the strip.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps a little.


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## rweis (Dec 20, 2005)

I have to disagree with Wild One. I use the streamer methods shown in the Harry Murray SM video and the Kelly Galloup video on streamers for trophy trout. Both throw across or slightly upstream, but both use the belly of the line to keep the fly heading downstream face first or at a side angle. The belly also acts as a tight line so that when a fish hits, you know it. Murray uses a weighted streamer and a slow steady retrieve as he attempts to scrap bottom. Galloup uses an unweighted streamer, with sinking line and a "jerk & strip" method. I use a combo. I cast across and vary the retrieves. If I have some depth to cast into, I start without weight and add splitshots, or sink tips (Orvis brand) to move me lower and lower in the water column until I get hung up all the time. I do sometimes cast upstream, but it is harder to detect a strike.


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## flyman (Aug 9, 2007)

you can cast upstream or downstream any technique is possible. it all depends on situation and position. anyways, if you're fishing deeper u may need sinking line. where i fish water is less than 7' so i go away with fluoro leader(sinks well!) and maybe a tiny split shot if the fly is bulkier. i try to avoid weight on tippet because of the jerk u get when casting. obviously cast above the spot so the fly would sink. i may cast way upstream when current is slow enough to control the line, or across with a mend to give fly some line to sink. i try to keep as little slack as possible as i dont like strike indicators and go by a twitch of line


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## Live2Fish (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm a "cast upstream and and let it tumble down person" myself. Once the fly is at the end of the swing I use a very retrieve.

If the water I am fishing is over 4.5' deep I use a sink tip line otherwise I use a small splitshot or a product called Zink. I like the Zink for areas where I might need to roll cast.


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## crg (Dec 7, 2006)

ryosapien said:


> btw if anyone is from the kent/akron area there is an amazing flyshop in ravenna called tmf you all probably know about it but i just stumbled upon this fly tyers heaven by accident and was like holy *&$% there goes all my money


with all the diffedrent types of materials there, you can easily go overboard. i do it everytime


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## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

I most of my steelies and my smallies on the swing. just cast across from you let it tumble down stream and give it small 6 inch strips once it starts to swing. if you are sight casting it works great in clear shallow waters. just cast upstream from fish swing into strike zone and hold on. no strike? change colors and repeat. I have casted 10 different flies at steelies and had they finally take it. I would think to add more weight if you try to go deeper


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## ryosapien (Jul 5, 2008)

IS a strike indicator necessary to use when using streamers? DO you guys like to use clousers for steelhead?


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## rweis (Dec 20, 2005)

The only time I use a strike indicator is when I am "nymphing" a streamer. The only streamer I do this with is a #8 bugger or smaller.


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

I don't use indicators on streamers as it will give it a unnatural actions! Watch your line and keep line slack at a minimum and you will catch more fish with better results! Leave the indicators for nymphing but better yet tie a bigger dry or attractor fly for indicator since it double your chances and a lot of time it works better.


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## ryosapien (Jul 5, 2008)

thanks for the advice guys i absolutely love this site. I am so obsessed with fishing i am sure i will get this soon. I actually caught two smallmouth yesterday on an olive and white clouser and a sucker on a hare's ear nymph in the hoga. Not bad for a beginner. I caught both smallies while stripping jerkily in slack water at the edge of pools. the one i was stripping upsteam doing what i imagine would bounce the lure along the bottom. What fun.... well i am among the few who think that sludging through the river for hours is fun but that is the beauty i think. Spinning gear has gotten little use but brought it out today and hooked a pike once again i failed to set the damn hook because i thought it was a snag until i saw a two foot flash of silver and said oh s%&t. Now i am 0 for 5 on pike damn my day has got to come soon. ANYONE WANT FISH THE HOGA OR CHAGRIN PM ME I WILL BRING THE WHISKEY WE WILL HAVE A HELL OF A MORNING


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

Thats all it matter is having fun! Keep at it!!


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## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

Flyfish Dog said:


> Thats all it matter is having fun! Keep at it!!


FFD is right on the money.
Advice....Read what is posted here & try EVERYTHING as what works for one or in some water may not work for another. Some of the best fishing I've had has been where folks are getting skunked....Once I find out what they're getting skunked on & how they've been fishing, I can sometimes figure out an "untried" pattern/technique that works. There are NO rules for fish behavior.
Mike


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

Another cool fact is to tandem a streamer chasing an crawfish/hellgramite/large nymphs of any kinds. Do this in very deep holes and where casting is not really needed as much but getting it down into there view is key. Last year I did this well and got a smallie and a bow on the same time on a 6wt! Chuck and duck style is the rule here so use your imagniation to experiment.


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## ryosapien (Jul 5, 2008)

had a really good day today guys. Managed to hook two smallies around 10" 2 rockbass a sucker and an 18" pike! all fish came on a whitlock matuka sculpin bounced in 5 second intervals on an undercut bank. I can catch fish this way but have not really figured out how to keep the streamer close to bottom on a swing and still manage to give action to the fly. so far current is my enemy but i want to become friends.


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

Use a 5ft Poly Leader fast sink on the end of fly line and add a 2 ft piece of tippet. This will get it down without having to put to much weight on fly and I hate lead weight on fly line as it gets caught in rocks crevices.


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## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

for bass I cast my buggers or clouser a lil upstream and across. I then give it a lil strip. nothing? let it sink some into the deep holes and then strip again, pause let it sink some and repeat. watch the tip of the fly line to see a strike but most grab it on the drop. I get better strikes in deep holes this way. then for steelies and bass in the spring that you can see in the riffles I just get upstream from them and swing the fly into the strike zone and if no bites happen I just repeat and repeat till they get aggressive and chase it down.. also for deep fast flows during steel season I will use a 9ft leader recipe thats half the strength than that of the original recipe and I start at 25lbs mono instead of 40lb or so and build down to 2 to 3 feet of 8 or 6 lb vanish flourocarbon line with the smallest barrel swivel you can find I will make a mono leader until the tippet part and then use swivel and the vanish flouro so it sinks faster and also if you lose a fish it usually snaps at the swivel so you can just improve clinch another piece of flouro onto it asap and get back in the stream. it works for me.. I have bent a hook straight on a snag using this recipe.. I nail knot it to my fly line and blood knot every piece of leader together also except for the swivel part where i use a improved clinch on both sides of swivel and on the fly. never lost a steel to this day except fly tyer tried to net my 1st ever steelie and it popped out the net and wrapped around his leg and we lost him.


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