# Long Range Precision Rifle Marksmanship



## bassclef (Jul 25, 2013)

In addition to my day job in IT, I am also a professional musician performing on low brass instruments in a wide variety of the highest level ensembles our corner of the world has to offer. I didn't choose music as a career but I take it as seriously as I can which consumes almost all of my free time. With all that's going on in the world at the moment, music performance opportunities are paused and might be that way for a while yet leaving me with a surplus of free time. Aside from fishing more, I want to use this time to start on some other endeavors/hobbies now that I have the time to devote to learning and practicing something besides my instruments.

For maybe decades, I've been fascinated by all that goes into putting a bullet on a target which is several hundred plus yards away. I want to learn how to do it, and I'm literally starting from scratch.

Does anyone here have experience with long range rifles?

For some time now, I've been wading through the seemingly infinite, and sometimes conflicting, information to be found on YouTube and other websites trying to learn all that I can leading up to my first purchase.

My good friend and barber of 15+ years is a retired Marine whose longest held job while active was primary arms instructor at the training facilities out in California. He's going to be a big help, but I wanted to see if I could connect with anyone else who has experience in what I want to do. 

*Tools*
I think I want a bolt action .308 which uses magazines. I'm not really interested in hunting (nothing against it, just not for me). It seems like there are models which are more optimized for what I want to do instead of something which also could be good for hunting, etc. I'm ready to pay for something which isn't necessarily "entry level". I'm not looking for a $6,000 Barrett nor do I want a $400 Wal-Mart special. I also have a sincere appreciation for finely engineered/machined/crafted things and see no reason why that wouldn't apply here. Especially because of being new to firearms in general, I want to buy new.

Any suggestions? Or better yet, any suggested local shops (NE Ohio) who would have the inventory and the specific knowledge to help me get something I'd be happy with? 

I feel even more lost when it comes to buying a scope. That's probably fine for now however, because I'm pretty certain I'll be staring off with iron sights at 100 yards or less. 

*Ranges*
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this appears to be a strictly outdoor activity. Are there any recommended rifle ranges in the area? Preferably, staffed with someone I could pay for regular lessons on everything from cleaning the rifle to accounting for the curvature and rotation of the earth and everything that I'll need to learn in between? I found a handful on Google, but I wanted to ask if anyone had a personal recommendation. 

Sorry for the long post, but I am as excited to get started as I am overwhelmed with information on the best way to do so. Thanks for your time.


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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

if you are new to shooting sports, i first suggest that you find a local club that runs a safety course - join and then take that course... one of my local (out of Ohio) clubs runs a .22 indoor course every year that includes safety and takes you to competitive level smallbore shooting. something like that is what you should look for first before you put a firearm in your house.

long range is relative. what is long for one caliber is not long for another. that said, start with something small first, like .22, to first learn accuracy and consistency. then begin to move up calibers.

20 years ago i started my kids with the redrider bb gun - still have 3 sitting by the front door now. they are great for hand/eye coordination practice. we have cans (pop) hanging in the trees out front still that we will go out and ping without using sights - just point. is great practice for skeet/trap/wing shooting. with the covid stay at home earlier in year, we were all working here and every time walk by the door - shoot some cans that evolved into a competition to cut a can in half with bb's - one bb at a time. cans were cut by all within about 3 shots of each other... aim small - miss small.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

where are you located?


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

PM sent


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

A good starter might be a Savage model 10 or a Model 12... Some may not agree, but I don't think you will find a more accurate rifle straight out of the box than a Savage.. A lot of bang for the buck.. Or look around for a deal on what I consider the ultimate target and coyote rifle Springfield Armory M1A


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

You'll probably want a Savage 110 in 6.5 Creedmoor:





Or a Ruger American Predator in the same caliber:





The latter guy has a LOT of good videos.

BTW: these are interesting for any one to watch, IMHO.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

Slatebar said:


> A good starter might be a Savage model 10 or a Model 12... Some may not agree, but I don't think you will find a more accurate rifle straight out of the box than a Savage.. [/ATTACH]


The new 110s from Savage are the bomb. AccuTrigger, Adjustable Cheek Rest, Adjustable Length of Pull. What more can you ask for?

The Ruger American is also a good gun/foundation....but the factory stock....kind of sucks. As much as something that can shoot MOA out of the box can suck......


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

Hello my name is Robert Mieczkowski I’ve been a professional shooter my entire life, in 2005 I was inducted into the shooting hall of fame. I have trained Navy Seal snipers for many years,as well as law enforcement. Enough about me I’m intrigued about you, anyone this interested in my life long passion I would love to work with. 
Please give me a call, I believe we live relatively close.
1-740-632-1106


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## CaneCorsoDad (Jun 11, 2017)

my son just bought the Savage in .338 Lapua, never in my life would I have thought about shooting 1000 yards or more. This gun makes my 1000 yard groups look impressive even off the bench prone or on a bipod


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

Correct and state of the art equipment in its proper application is truly phenomenal


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

berkshirepresident said:


> The new 110s from Savage are the bomb. AccuTrigger, Adjustable Cheek Rest, Adjustable Length of Pull. What more can you ask for?
> 
> The Ruger American is also a good gun/foundation....but the factory stock....kind of sucks. As much as something that can shoot MOA out of the box can suck......


Early 80's a friend bought a Savage 25-06. I forget the model # but it had the walnut stock. He brought it to me and ask me to work up a load for him. that was one of the most accurate and best shooting rifle I ever held to my shoulder.. Any load that I would try at 100 yds would be well less than an inch and most would be just one ragged hole.. As for Ruger it has been hit and miss. I had a 77/22Hornet that was all over the target at 100yds. I ordered a few different size shims for that 2 piece bolt and that little rifle turned in to a tack driver. But my wife bought me a Ruger 77 Varmint Heavy bbl 25-06 as a wedding gift and I have tried ever load in the book, tried shimming the stock, several different scopes and mounts and never did get a group with it. it has always been all over the paper.( I mean shots 7-8 inches apart.) I gave up on it and it has sat in safe for last 30 years.. Beautiful rifle but totally worthless. I have thought of having it rebarreled to another cal. But to late in life for that now..


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## bassclef (Jul 25, 2013)

Bullet Bob said:


> Hello my name is Robert Mieczkowski I’ve been a professional shooter my entire life, in 2005 I was inducted into the shooting hall of fame. I have trained Navy Seal snipers for many years,as well as law enforcement. Enough about me I’m intrigued about you, anyone this interested in my life long passion I would love to work with.
> Please give me a call, I believe we live relatively close.
> 1-740-632-1106


Awesome, thank you! I will be in touch


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## bassclef (Jul 25, 2013)

boatnut said:


> where are you located?


I'm in Stark County. And thanks for the PM, I will keep that in mind.


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## bassclef (Jul 25, 2013)

berkshirepresident said:


> You'll probably want a Savage 110 in 6.5 Creedmoor:


I've been reading a lot about 6.5 Creedmoor vs .308

Right or wrong, I've got my eye on an Armalite AR-31 in .308 at the moment.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

Slatebar said:


> Early 80's a friend bought a Savage 25-06. I forget the model # but it had the walnut stock. He brought it to me and ask me to work up a load for him. that was one of the most accurate and best shooting rifle I ever held to my shoulder.. Any load that I would try at 100 yds would be well less than an inch and most would be just one ragged hole.. As for Ruger it has been hit and miss. I had a 77/22Hornet that was all over the target at 100yds. I ordered a few different size shims for that 2 piece bolt and that little rifle turned in to a tack driver. But my wife bought me a Ruger 77 Varmint Heavy bbl 25-06 as a wedding gift and I have tried ever load in the book, tried shimming the stock, several different scopes and mounts and never did get a group with it. it has always been all over the paper.( I mean shots 7-8 inches apart.) I gave up on it and it has sat in safe for last 30 years.. Beautiful rifle but totally worthless. I have thought of having it rebarreled to another cal. But to late in life for that now..


I think Magpul makes a replacement stock for that gun that MIGHT get better results. At least the barrel will be free floating.....FWIW.
The really accurate Ruger's seem to the newer American rifles with their cheap...but free floated....barrels. Older ones were often indestructible but not known for being MOA. Now, on a deer rifle that won't shoot past 200 yards, that was probably good enough.


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

$250 savage axis in 6.5 creedmore at 100 yards. Hornady Match is the only bullet I can do this with. The other rounds I’ve tried are not even comparable. I did take the junk weaver scope off and put a Leupold VX 1 on it.


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Btw....I do get a flyer if I shoot more than 3-4 shots in a row, the flyer is only a couple inches off .....Do you guys think the barrel heating up a bit does this?


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

Consecutive shots should be at least two minute intervals.
After 3 to 6 shots you should clean you rifle in order to maintain a high level of consistency.. Remember rifles have their own personalities and everyone has its own idiosyncrasies.


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## 40xmax (Jun 10, 2018)

I feel compelled to respond to this old thread...bassclef; if you're serious about about a precision rifle there are a few sites that cater to, almost exclusively to rifles, that shoot 1/4 moa and less, all day long..I've sold several rifles on these sites..in regard to cleaning a rifle barrel..my name isn't in any books, and awards haven't been bestowed upon me..I've never trained military snipers. however I shoot alot..I've shot next to military snipers & law enforcement ..if you talk to those who make custom barrels, there are two schools of thought..me first; I shoot a Edge 338 +P ..and a .222 and a 6 PPC and a 300 norma mag and my latest is a 6mmARC. competitively, and for fun..I have over 600 rounds through the 338 Edge, the barrel hasn't been touched and it shoots 1/4 moa all day, same with the PPC ..however these are custom rifles...Remington 40X's and Kelby actions..with custom barrels...some benchrest boys will clean a barrel after a match; generally 100 to 300 rounds, some clean a barrel and the gun stops printing 1/4 moa or less, and if you're gun won't shoot a 1/4 moa or less you may as well pack it up and go talk to yourself..some like me, don't want to chance it and wait until the gun tells me its time..factory barrels are in a totally different galaxy..if a factory rifle shoots, you lucked out: if it doesn't, you can clean it, slug it, clean it again and again until the next total eclipse..its still is going to suck for any number of reasons..my advice is go to a few benchrest matches ask questions..we are more than happy to answer questions and talk about our guns..1st, Thunder valley, Coshocton oh..shoot a 1000 + yards..Thundering valley, knox co..shoot 800+ yards and there are countless 100,200,& 300 yard clubs in oh..Benchrest central, 6mm ar...these are just 2 sites that cater to precision shooting..I have two rifles on BC for sale now..both heavy varmint class..a .243, and a XP100 in 20 var targ..just making room for another project..good luck bassclef..go to a shooting match, ask questions..you'll get honest, bonafide answers..call short action custom..they know what they are doing, as well as a couple others in this state..one other little thing...you can put 4-5k in a rifle, that's the easy part; but if the optics ( scope) isn't up to the task, your chasing your tail..ASK QUESTIONS..just my 2.5 cents on this subject.


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