# running tournies?



## cedar1 (Feb 5, 2006)

This is all new to me but man, it seems like there is good money in organizing a big tournament. I'm sure that there is alot of time and commitment to say the least but when I do the math, WOW, and if I fish it also and get in the money, holy @@#$ there is some money to be made here. Does this get donated to charity, local fish management, or anything like that? When I do the math ( boats entered, payout, etc.) with whats left over you could run a couple a year and do o.k. Or maybe pay a lot more places? Donating it to local fish management would be cool. Can anyone tell me how this works?


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Cedar what are you asking here? You keep saying "all this money?" You have no idea the amount of work that goes into running a tournament. There is also the legal issues, the tax issues, then add the advertising, supplies, scales etc, and your going to find out this isn't easy money. Besides after all that include your time, gasoline and upkeep to your equipment you'll be lucky to break even. It isn't peaches and cream. Believe me. Go find a good tournament series and go have fun, leaving the work to someone else. Oh yes-- I failed to tell you about the amount of time your going to need and the money you need up front.


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## Reel Man (Jul 4, 2004)

Don't you also have to buy permits to fish the lakes?


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

How much do the events profit on the ones you have calculated? 

You could potentially make a lot of $ if you chose that route. But not for long.

Most likely the organizations' failure to place emphasis on services to anglers and resources needed to run any kinda of a business providing a service, would eventually run it into the ground, you wouldn't get a turnout- then you'd go broke!

I made ALOT of money last year- about $6.00 an hour prior to expenses. 

My wife thinks it's a great second job for our family as the phone rings off the hook starting in February- I'm gone nearly every weekend from 2am-6pm during the events- and every sport show promoting them starting in Jan onto tournament time. 

Its a passion- not a profit.

Good topic- love to hear more!!!

Nip
www.dobass.com

I see others passions have already answered my sarcasim above!!!


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## cedar1 (Feb 5, 2006)

These are just questions, it was'nt meant to offend anyone. Why would it? 
Like I said, this tournament thing is new to me and I just wondered if any local groups or youth organizations could benefit.


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Come on Cedar- I reread your intial post- dont change directions now!!!  Dont edit your intial post either!  

It really is a good topic.

Yes- monies are often donated to charitable evnets. Weve done it regularly- if you go to dobass.com look at all the listings and their respective links youll see many groups running events to sustain positive organizations.

Profit for a service is not a dirty word. BUT it also depends -IN MY OPINION- how well your service is provided. 

Anglers see through those who stink and those who dont- they make the events what they are AND the payouts. 

If you stink- they wont fish your events- I know I wont!!!

Nip


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't think you offended anyone at all. I think we were all trying to show you there is no "BIG BUCKS" in running a tournment. YOur real money comes from finding and KEEPING good sponsors. With so many tournaments being run, started and dropped a lot of the sponsors are shying away from the local level tournaments. If you organize a tournament just for a youth group etc, and advertise it as that you can make some money for the group. You can't keep large amounts out for your self if you want to keep your membership up. Yes there are those that do that and do good for a few years, but after a while someone figures that out and drops out. then the crowd follows. I did it for many years and have gotten out of it. After several years I don't miss it at all. Even though we gave most all of it bacxk, just keeping out enough to cover expenses, and sometimes not even that, it was time to move on. Good luck if you do, it's a tough way to make very little money. Nip, if you made $6.00 an hour your doing better than most I know. I was lucky to break even. Of course like I said we gave almost all of it back too.


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## Reel Man (Jul 4, 2004)

There are other costs to be considered too. Nip runs an excellent tournament in our area. There is a high turn out and he has taken special care to make sure the survival rate of the bass caught is as high as possible. Special holding tanks and the oxygen pumps and chemicals to reduce shock aren't free. I couldn't even begin to imagine keeping the hours necessary to run a quality event. I would much rather pay my entry fee and have fun fishing them then trying to run an event. I applaud anyone that does head up a tournament trail. I certainly enjoy fishing them.


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## cedar1 (Feb 5, 2006)

Nip, I did'nt edit my post in any way other than I misspelled a word. Thanks for the replies, it adds some insite into the tourny thing.


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

Bustn chops a little cedar- havin fun with you!

Nip


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## Fish4Fun (Apr 6, 2004)

Cedar I used to think tournaments were an easy buck when i fished them. This year i started running the Midwest Tournaments in our area. And its far from easy money if you even make anymoney. As Nip has said and Dale. You probably could make some cash but you won't have the anglers for long if thats all you think about. You will have to put the vast majority of any money you make right back into the tournaments in order to have a great professional tournament. I will be lucky to break even this year with the cost of flyers, Plaques, driving all over the place, phone bills, etc etc. Its far from easy. Its alot of work if you want to do it right and give the fisherman something they really like and want to be a part of and thats what we want to do. Its not about the money to me its about the sport, the people, and something i love to do and learning.


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

well cedar you didnt affend me but most tournaments arent making as much money as it seams with all the cost that are involed in putting them on. the ones that do make big bucks dont last long because the fishermen stop supportting them. then when you get to running the really big tournaments the cost of equipment to take care of the fish at wiegh in the cost of scales the cost of permitts and dont forget the cost of insurance. think car insurance is high? wait till you see the insurance cost of the big tournys you will also need tents and tables . then the bigger the event the more people you will need to run it. some tourneys are run to help charity and youth groups. there will be tournies on portage and mosquito in the spring to help the boy scouts out those tournies can be found on www. dobass.com the tournaments that look easy to run just shows how good that directer really is! 2more cost i forgot is webpages and look out on your phone bill lol like i said in the beginning you didnt affend me in any way anything i said was only to try and help you out. by the way its nice to see we have new people comming into the sport that shows interest if you ever decide to run tournaments and want a helping hand to lead you to the information that you need dont be afraid to ask me i would try and lead you in the right directionbut please keep in mind there is a extream amont of work that goes into it.


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## Cull'in (Nov 21, 2005)

I don't envy anyone running tournaments. Unless you've done it or just helped out you can't begin to comphrehend the time and effort that goes into it...and that's just the day of the event! The "pre" and "post" event matters are a whole other animal.

Nip is the best around and much of that can be attributed to the fact he's really nothing more than a tournament fisherman himself. He treats us as he would want to be treated and he provides us with what he would want...nothing more, nothing less!

I've been fortunate to cash a check on occassion and as I leave the ramp with a smile, a little spending money and an aching back I see the tournament crew out of the corner of my eye tearing things down and packing up and think to myself, "No way, you could'nt pay me enough!"


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

F4F and I are running a local circuit in the north-central part of the state this year,and this will be the first time either of us have attempted being directors.We started putting things together back in January,and we're still hard at work trying to recruit more teams,planning different ways to make things at our events the best we can.Like Jerry said,at this point the gas costs of driving around dropping off fliers at likely locations,and the phone calls everywhere all cost money.Also,consider the costs of plaques,in my case,having to pay a sub at work for a days work so I can be at the launch ramp on time-that right there is a considerable chunk of change,we're also looking into purchasing T-shirts with our logo on them for the guys that fish our circuit.I never looked at this as a way to make a few bucks,lucky I didn't,because we won't.I just wanted to be a part of this to learn more on bass fishing,and how to operate a circuit,and get to spend a day on the water with a great friend and meet and fish with new friends.As has been said in previous replies on this topic,we all know of individuals that have looked at this sort of thing as a money-maker,they're on the sidelines now,guys can see through them pretty quick.You don't want to go out and get a bad name for yourself(or your circuit)in this game,if you do,it's very likely you won't be running anymore tournaments,or possibly even fish in someone else's.


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## fishin4five (Dec 2, 2005)

Directing tournaments can't be about the money, it has to be about the love of the game.


And what a stupid game it is...chasing little green and brown fish around!  


It's a stupid enough game that I spend all my money on it!


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## TeAm_BoAtBoYs (Apr 3, 2005)

hahaha, F4F thts my same exact thought.


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## exexec (Apr 12, 2004)

If there aren't new guys to take over - who is???


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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

This is one reason so many start and stop. It looks good from a calculator viewpoint, but factor in all the tournament related expenses and unseen time and energy and most say it just isn't worth it. I've been directin since 1980 and the reason is because I love it. Its part of the fishin passion I have that I can't explain. 
Most fund-raiser events are around 70-80%payback. Out of their profit comes advertising, trophies, food and drink and equipment or equipment rental. Not much left after all the work. But nobody ever sees this part of an event. Most flyers will state what money is being raised for in open events. You just need to look. For example: Someone mentioned the boy scouts. On their flyer, it mentions proceeds raised are for equipment and help with summer camp. This is a basic statement but goes much deeper than that. We actually have several underpriveliged children who can't afford to be in scouts let alone a summer camp expense. A big majority of funds raised are for these kids. Is it worthwhile? I think so and ultimately up to you. Another example are the 2 opens hosted by the Portage Lakes Bassmasters at Portage and Mosquito. Funds raised for these events are for their huge kids event they sponsor each year at the Division of Wildlife office ponds at portage lakes (on North Reservoir). This year its Sat. May 27 from 9-noon, ages 5-14. Registration begins at 8am. Free food, lots of door prizes,free bait, and an annual visit form Billy Bass. Last year we hosted nearly 200 kids and their parents. Is it worth supporting these events? I think so, but again, its up to you. 
Final thought on directin: If you think you're going to get rich doing it, better take off your rose colored glasses. You have to gain anglers trust and respect and this doesn't happen overnight. People will know when they're gettin a fair shake. To those just startin, run a simple, quality event and most importantly, do what you say you are gonna do. Don't make promises you can't keep in order to make your deal attractive. Once you become a man of your word, you will grow by referral. A mentor is always a good resource as they can help you with decisions you need to make for the overall good of your organization. Someone you trust who has been through the fire and will keep you going in the right direction. 

State co-sponsored events are usually free permits unless you're selling something then there is a permit fee. The MWCD lakes have large fees attached to them. They claim its for administrative costs. For those running events at Muskingum Lakes will have to charge extra to cover costs of permits etc. But there will be those who wonder why is the initiation fee so high. There's just so much more to it. I wish everyone well.


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## bttmline (Apr 7, 2004)

I didn't know there was money in a tournament. 100% payout doesn't leave much for a director to party on. Please don't tell my wife there is profit because all I have done is spend money out of my pocket to bring people together to share some time and fun and maybe a little money to the guys who do the best that particular day.
Tim


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

Tim, alot of the expense money, as I have always figured, would come out of the mebership fees.


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

I have run a few catfish tournament, but I am not a bait shop, therefore, I make nothing. All my tournies are 100% payout. I have fished a small club that charges membership fees, but they are very small in part, because of it. Nobody wants to pay someone to run a small tourney when they can fish them for free. Other than entry fees.

The tournies I have had were for fun. I never expected to make a dime. I also entered into the tournies myself and never caught a fish on any of the tourney nights. No money in it for me. I did spend money on copies and what not to promote it. I am with everyone else on this. Not enough money involved in running them unless you are very shady. When you charge unwarranted extra fee's, people will simply not fish them.


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## tcba1987 (Jun 22, 2004)

rockbass said:


> I have fished a small club that charges membership fees, but they are very small in part, because of it. Nobody wants to pay someone to run a small tourney when they can fish them for free. Other than entry fees.
> 
> When you charge unwarranted extra fee's, people will simply not fish them.



there isnt any money made in running tournaments, i run a small group where, yes we charge a one time per year membership fee to be a member and to help pay for trophies and or plaques.  i know some people dont fish because of the membership fee ($10 per year which if you check is a heck of alot cheaper the alot of clubs charge) but i DONT care pay the entry fee or dont fish.  i cant make everyone happy no matter how i set up our clubs rules and i figure the guys will fish if they want to or not fish, i really dont lose any sleep over it. i figure most of the guys who dont want to pay the fee can go somewhere else or try to put on their own tournaments. i put it in our club rules this year , you pay to be a member and participate in the points or you dont fish !!!


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## mikeshookset (Feb 28, 2005)

hey rockbass i think you may be on to some thing! please tell us how to run a circuit or club and pay the entry fee back 100 percent and not have to charge a membership fee to pay the bills with ?


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## Fish4Fun (Apr 6, 2004)

Alot of guys would love to run circuits and pay back 100% but its just not going to happen. There are alot of hidden fees if those guys want a quality tournament with trophies or plaques. For the most part all tournaments are 100% pay back if you figure the cost of the permits, plaques, flyers, setup and getting the tournaments off the ground.


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## fishin'cpl (Jan 10, 2006)

I can agree with everbody that thear is alot of time that goes into the running tournaments. This is my first running a point trail. But if I lose money well I'll have fun doing it. The poeple you meet doing this will be fun. I think back to last year when meeting poeple like team boatboys and alot of other poeple you don't need to make money to fun. I think that if thear was so much money to make that it would be hard to get a director job like getting a job at G.M. But I walked wright into this job and I've been trying to get in G.M since I was 18 never got that call yet lol. There is a 60.00 membership to join Midwest sportsman but thear is a cost at everthing. My Bass club membership went up to 60.00 that before I even look at a boat ramp to. But there is insurance and many planning that is done so if you want to fish it cost money and you don't always win but if you don't spend the money to fish don't get to have great day at the scale. Good luck to everbody that's going to fish tournaments this any tournaments.


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

I vividly remember days, not so far in the past, in which an 80% or 90% guaranteed payout was something that as anglers we jumped at, and nearly unheard of. I can only imagine what guys who have fished locally for 30 years can speak of. Those should STILL be considered exceptionally HIGH payouts.

Many events, opens and circuts, were roughly 60-75 percent pays in the recent past- I'd still fish some of them if they were around- because they put a great show on, made good efforts to take care of the fish caught, adheared to the rules and met obligations of their advertised payout. 

Really couldve cared less if the leftover or other fees, went to a good cause or they started a campfire with it. 

They earned it and earned my business as an angler. Beyond this, was not of my business- I knew going into the game what the payout was rated for.

What motivated me as a director though was when priorities towards *the fish*, the anglers and the advertised payouts were eroding.

Now the paradigm shift has quickly moved towards that organizations can not profit from their efforts!??? 

I said it earlier, and will again, staying in the black is not a dirty word! 

NE Ohio is spoiled with events such as the X-series who provides a fully RIGGED $30k boat for the Championship. Lakes Trail that allows a $50 per person team entry to compete for a one bite big bass each event paying similar to first place, possibly $1000!- ON TOP of 100% returned through the year! NOAA capping a field for small inland lakes and returning a $6000 payday on 60 teams. A GURANTEED delivery of a $10k first place before the first entry is even sent in at MM. This is just a few of the exceptional opportunities never heard of before. 

Kickers to some,each or all- plaques, a forum for *EXPOSURE* to local anglers beyond tournament day,food,drink,fair play,thousands in sponsor developed giveaways, grassroot boat owner perks possibly exceeding $2500 per event for a win!!!

To think, I had to eagerly solicit $20 raffle draws for a free NOAA entry ($200 cash) in order to break even at the last meeting just to offer free food afterwards to my team for their help.

Wait till we all get together and make live bait legal just for fun! lol

Most ALL bass tournament organizations are doing things on a local level that are unheard of just two and three years ago. They have to.

Profit for all the organizers- if there could be one- is not a bad thing.

Get your worms ready!

Nip
www.dobass.com


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

Hey Mike.

They were small catfish tournies that I held on the local river. No cost involved for me other than printing fliers and taking time/gas to hang them up. I know it's not the same as the bass clubs. Like I said, small catfish tournies. If I was running a club at a lake with regular tournies, I am sure there would be more cost to it. the ones I had on the river were simple. I did not want to make money on them. I just used my regular Rapala scale and a bucket. I had no fancy gadgets, so that is how it was 100% payout. The time was just something I donated I guess. I thought about having regular tournies set up once a month like Cripple does, but I just wanted to do a couple here and there. If I started to get into it more to where it started to cost more, I would prob have to change something, but for now, it works for anyone who fishes them. I hope that explains why it goes 100%back


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

After reading nips posts, I think wow........man I wouild love to be able to fish some of those tournies.

If I were turning a large crowd, I am sure the cost would be greater. I don't print but maybe a hundred fliers, and a ream of paper we get for 3 bucks I think. Business cards are cheap too, so I might have 10-15 bucks in my costs. Therefore, I can do it for free. If I was putting on a big show and had 100 people entering, there would be other costs involved, therefore, I would prob have to make a few bucks to help out. I can certainly see where the larger groups need to make more to cover costs. Small timers like me can do it for free.........that is why it is small time


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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

!00% is a reality and those who say it can't be done, are not structured properly. Anyone who is running an event, big or small, with no insurance, what are you thinking? This is a monster expense. To those who are just starting, you will know almost exactly what your expenses will be next year, unless your buying or upgrading equipment. Cover it with a joining fee or initiation fee. That way tournament entry fees can and do exceed 100%. Nobody expects anyone to run an event 100% free, and if you do, come sit in my shoes for a week and see what you think. You need to be paid something. Your time is valuable. As Nip said, "in the black" is not a dirty word. The perception of anyone gettin rich over this is simply not the case. Clearing all expenses, taking your staff help out to an appreciation dinner, and keeping enough to cover mail list costs in Spring is basically where its at for most formidable trail operators. If your paying out of your own pocket, please pm me as I have several events I would like you to run for me.


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## Corey (Apr 5, 2004)

In our Cripple Creek Catfish tourneys we pay 90% back and make very little or no profit from the event itself. With low turnouts in the colder (April & October) events we lose a little money. Any profit we make is made from the sale of bait and tackle for the event. With a low, $10 per person entry fee we keep $1 from each entry. Added to the cost of printing flyers, at every event we provide free coffee & donuts, we have a free drawng for 2 hats and 2 T-shirts at each event, and we give away $30 in gift certificates each time. In the past I have run both Bass and Walleye tourneys and it just cannot be done for free.


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