# Balancing your own rod



## Bassapprentice (Apr 14, 2009)

So have any of you tried balancing your own rods? I've considered shooting a screw into the butt end of the rodd with some washers, but that may hurt the rod blank. Alternatively, i've considered filling some sort of cap on the end that's been filled with the correct number of steel washers. Someithing like what goes on the end of a crutch. Any ideas?


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Bass Pro Shop has Rod balance kits. They aren't too expensive either. I have used them and they are great. I think only like $10 each rod might be less don't remember

I have extra weights butt screws and one butt cap I believe left over if you are intersted let me know by PM.


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

I use chair leg caps for my spinning rods. You can get them at Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. They are durable pliable rubber and come in different sizes. They stretch fit on and hold real well. I pour my own lead discs which you can easily do and make them whatever weight you want. The best part is how cheap they are for a 4 pack.


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## fshnfreak (Feb 24, 2007)

not to sound dumb but ive never balanced a rod how does this benefit the fisherman? my bassin rods all have removable caps on the butt for balancing kits but ive always just left them alone.


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## Tiny Tim (Sep 19, 2006)

By adding weight to the rear it holds your tip up where you get a lot better feel for the bite. I have kits on all my Flippin sticks due to the fact they are all tip heavy. You can go to the local hardware store and buy the big rubber caps that go on stools and find some kind of weight to go in them and have the same thing. It wont wear you out trying to hold your tip up all day long either.


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## TheSonicMarauder (Mar 9, 2006)

duct tape and quarters if you dont want to get the bass pro kit...


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

Keep in mind that any weight you add to a rod makes it less sensitive. If sensitivity is not a concern than go ahead and add weight.

jeremy


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

bowhunter29 said:


> Keep in mind that any weight you add to a rod makes it less sensitive. If sensitivity is not a concern than go ahead and add weight.
> 
> jeremy


I beg to differ. A tip heavy rod is much less sensitive than a slightly more balanced rod for most fishing applications. Bass Pro Shops make the claim that their rod balancing weights make a rod up to 300 times more sensitive. And sure, they are selling something, but even if they are 1/3 right it's still 100 times. It's so easy to find out, just take a car wheel weight and electrical tape it around the very butt of your rod. Use it long enough to get used to it and then take it off.


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

All Eyes said:


> I beg to differ. A tip heavy rod is much less sensitive than a slightly more balanced rod for most fishing applications. Bass Pro Shops make the claim that their rod balancing weights make a rod up to 300 times more sensitive. And sure, they are selling something, but even if they are 1/3 right it's still 100 times. It's so easy to find out, just take a car wheel weight and electrical tape it around the very butt of your rod. Use it long enough to get used to it and then take it off.


Regardless of what Bass Pro claims, adding weight to a rod does not make it more sensitive- it has the opposite affect. The most sensitive rod will be the one that weighs the least. This is a well-known fact- ask any competent rod builder. It doesn't matter if a rod is tip-heavy or butt-heavy, if it weighs more than a comparable rod, it will not be as sensitive. A balanced rod will reduce hand and wrist fatigue over a long day of fishing.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or start an argument. I'm just trying to inform people of the truth, despite what companies are hyping in trying to sell more of their product. 

jeremy


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Actually balance is key to less fatigue and more sensitivity. However you do need a quality rod to begin with in the sensitivity department.


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

Iowa Dave said:


> Actually balance is key to less fatigue and more sensitivity. However you do need a quality rod to begin with in the sensitivity department.


Dave, would you mind explaining how a balanced rod is more sensitive than a rod that is much lighter than a balanced rod? What is the science behind it? I assume you're talking about a rod that is butt-heavy.

Go to rodbuilding.org. The most knowledgeable rod builders in the world frequent the site. Ask them about sensitivity if you're not willing to take my word for it.

jeremy


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Jeremy

Before getting into walleye fishing I have fished bass and bass tournaments for about 30 years with mostly baitcast tackle. Always having purchased quality equptment and in most of those setups they are pretty much balanced. However when using spinning gear I found that most setups are tip heavy with quality setups. 

I am strictly going on what I "feel" in the rod with and without a properly balanced rod and reel combo. Scientific I have no proof but I'm sure that someone somewhere has. 

Personally I feel that if someone has a butt heavy rod/reel combo it is either improperly matched or a low quality setup. 

Fatigue would be the most important reason to balance a rod/reel combo IMO My balanced spinning combo's feel like they weigh almost nothing in my hand.


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Oh one more thing on lighter rods is they are in most all cases made of graphite and therefore more sensitive by nature over the heavier fiberglass rods. You can buy many grades of graphite rods from several manufacturers and quality goes along with higher prices. You can however get a good quality rod for $100 or less. BPS even has some IM6 graphite rods which aren't too bad for like $20


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Jeremy

I found a pretty good explination of why you should balance a fishing rod on Google.

Balancing a fishing rod in general is not a difficult thing to do. Yet, it seems most rod manufacturers do not bother doing it enough, to our surprise. Balancing is achieved mainly by installing a counterweight (see inset) at the butt end. Although the counterbalance is an additional weight, a balanced rod seems lighter than an unbalanced one. If you carry an 8-foot-long 2x4 piece of lumber in the middle, that is to mean &#8216;balanced&#8217;, instead of at the end, you have greater control over the piece, not to mention the fact that you can carry it with much more ease. This balance, coupled with the general lightness of the rod allows you greater control, and the feeling that the rod is a lot shorter and lighter than it actually is. This unique quality allows you to incorporate &#8216;wrist action&#8217; in casting and other things you would like to do with your rod. And at the end of a long day you are much less tired. By the way, &#8216;balanced&#8217; does not mean every Destroyer is balanced exactly at the same spot, namely their reel seats. The balance of each rod is tailored to its specific purpose. For instance, the ones for flipping and pitching are tuned to be forward-balanced for obvious reasons. Each Destroyer is uniquely balance-tuned, and this contributes to Destroyer&#8217;s legendary &#8216;weightless&#8217; feel.


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Jeremy

I found a pretty good explination of why you should balance a fishing rod on Google.

Balancing a fishing rod in general is not a difficult thing to do. Yet, it seems most rod manufacturers do not bother doing it enough, to our surprise. Balancing is achieved mainly by installing a counterweight (see inset) at the butt end. Although the counterbalance is an additional weight, a balanced rod seems lighter than an unbalanced one. If you carry an 8-foot-long 2x4 piece of lumber in the middle, that is to mean balanced, instead of at the end, you have greater control over the piece, not to mention the fact that you can carry it with much more ease. This balance, coupled with the general lightness of the rod allows you greater control, and the feeling that the rod is a lot shorter and lighter than it actually is. This unique quality allows you to incorporate wrist action in casting and other things you would like to do with your rod. And at the end of a long day you are much less tired. By the way, balanced does not mean every Destroyer is balanced exactly at the same spot, namely their reel seats. The balance of each rod is tailored to its specific purpose. For instance, the ones for flipping and pitching are tuned to be forward-balanced for obvious reasons. Each Destroyer is uniquely balance-tuned, and this contributes to Destroyers legendary weightless feel.


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

Dave, I agree with you that for certain applications, a balanced rod is a must. We both agree that a balanced rod helps to eliminate fatigue. 

A rod with a balance weight in the butt makes the tip 'feel' lighter, but in fact, the weight has not decreased in the tip, it has increased in the butt. Regardless of how the rod 'feels', it's not lighter, it now weighs more which reduces sensitvity. The most sensitive rod is the lightest rod. All of the 'new technologies' that mass production companies are using now to reduce weight on their rods have come from custom rod builders (split grips, 'micro' guides, spiral wraps, etc). If a flippin' stick is built properly with a split grip and micros, it will be extremely light compared to a rod with a full grip and double foot guides (like most flippin' sticks have). You may find that a rod built like this won't need a balance weight in it. 

I personally would never use a balance weight on one of my rods. I prefer the sensitivity that the reduced weight gives me. Now, I've built alot of rods with Fuji's weighted butt cap in them for clients (have to give the people what they want), and many of my clients swear by a weighted butt cap. To me, it's a matter of personal preference.

There are some companies that are coming out with rod blanks that are made of blends of graphite that are comparable in action to glass rods but at a much lighter weight. I've only had to opportunity to build on one of them so far, but I've been very impressed.

I envy you for your tournament fishing career. I wish I had more time/money to tournament fish. I have too many hobbies: rod building, lure building, hunting, fishing, and backpacking. I'm sure you've had alot of fun and learned quite a bit. If you ever find yourself in need of a custom built rod, give me a yell.

jeremy


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

LOL my tournament career was when I was 17-20 years old.  Did quite well actually finished state top 6 every year. Would have liked to have gone pro but couldn't afford it like most. Hope one day to get back to it we shall see. 

The difference in a rod needing balance weights and one not again is quality there are some very good production rods out there yes custom rods are much better. The 4 spinning rods that I have and are balanced all took less than an ounce to balance so that wasn't bad at all. I have seen some that took up to 3 or 4 ounces and some well lets just say there was no hope. We are both right in our thinking just depends on the equptment you begin with. 

I will for sure in the future get you to build a rod or two for me and send anyone to you that I come across wanting one as well.

Oh one more thing about balancing for those who are reading this don't balance the rod until you put the reel on. Then you need to put one finger under the reel seat just in front of the reel and it should balance on your finger if not then you can add weight to the butt until it is balanced. This is of course if it is tip heavy if it isn't put on a lighter reel. Usually won't take much weight. Like I said earlier in this post I have several weights and butt screws from balance kits from BPS if anyone wants them just pay the shipping


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

I am strictly going by feel myself and am far from any expert on the subject. My spinning combos are matched well and are comparably very light to begin with. G.Loomis IMX, St. Croix, and Setyr (pronounced setter) rods matched with Shimano Stradic reels. 
My experience is more walleye, crappie and perch fishing in vertical or shorter distance casting applications. Comfort and wrist fatigue aside, the sensitivity seems to increase for me with the balancers on them. I have put them through the paces by taking them off and on many times crawling over the same structure with small 32 and 16th oz.jigs. It seems that without the weight, I can't tell the subtle differences like when mud turns to fine sand etc. Maybe I'm wrong but it feels that way to me.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

You are right! Balance it so you are most comfortable and that will give *YOU* the greatest "feel".


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

bowhunter29 said:


> Dave, would you mind explaining how a balanced rod is more sensitive than a rod that is much lighter than a balanced rod? What is the science behind it? I assume you're talking about a rod that is butt-heavy.
> 
> *Go to rodbuilding.org. The most knowledgeable rod builders in the world frequent the site. * Ask them about sensitivity if you're not willing to take my word for it.
> 
> jeremy


And they ALSO have differing opinions about adding weight for balance.


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

reo said:


> And they ALSO have differing opinions about adding weight for balance.


Reo, if you look hard enough you can find someone who will dispute almost anything that is said. That site is no different.

jeremy


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Lottsa dispute going on here! I'm so old there isn't a sensitive spot left on me.


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Hey Shortdrift it is called Different Strokes for Different Folks


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

Shortdrift said:


> Lottsa dispute going on here! I'm so old there isn't a sensitive spot left on me.


Shortdrift, I see nothing wrong with having discussions/disputes as long as both parties can be respectfull and considerate. Iowa Dave and I had a discussion and through it I gained respect for him because of how he handled himself. I feel like I have a new friend!

jeremy


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Hey Jeremy next time I'm in Ohio lets go catch some Fish


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

It would seem to me that any weight added to a high modulas graphite rod would dampen it making the blank less sensitive. It's simple physics. I still believe that. It's why I wouldn't use weights in the past. After reading up on the subject I was seeing so many pro tourney guys using them that I had to try them out. 
I went into it as un-biased as I could just going by feel alone. Now I use them on most of my rods. While the sensitivity of the blank itself may be reduced?, you are not having to lift the tip as much, thus putting more line pressure on the guides. There very well may be a give and take that goes on there. I really don't know. I personally believe that I can feel more through a rod (especially longer rods) with the weights added.


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

@All Eyes
Like you said, adding weight dampens the rod making it less sensitive. Simple physics (if there is such a thing LOL).

But more importantly, if you prefer the added weight in the butt, then do it! It's all a matter of personal preference. When I'm advising a client on a rod build, all I can do is give them options (and reasons for the options) but it's up to them to decide what is best for their fishing technique. 

@Iowa Dave,
I'm actually in South-central PA. If you ever make it out this way, you have a fishing guide!

jeremy


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Jeremy

I just had a thought. If a guy or gal were to want a custom rod built wouldn't it be a good idea to send you or the rod builder the reel that they wanted on the rod being built so that it could be made to be balanced in the first place?

In the case of buying off the shelf you need to match the reel with the rod and not buy too large a reel for the rod as well as too light. Then again I'm sure most don't go into this much detail when purchasing a fishin' pole


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

Iowa Dave said:


> Jeremy
> 
> I just had a thought. If a guy or gal were to want a custom rod built wouldn't it be a good idea to send you or the rod builder the reel that they wanted on the rod being built so that it could be made to be balanced in the first place?
> 
> In the case of buying off the shelf you need to match the reel with the rod and not buy too large a reel for the rod as well as too light. Then again I'm sure most don't go into this much detail when purchasing a fishin' pole


Dave, you are correct. If balance is a main concern, the custom builder should have the clients reel (or a similiar one) in order to correctly balance the rod. Of course the builder also needs to know exactly how the client holds the rod/reel in their hand while fishing.

Having the reel on hand is especially important if you are talking about building a spinning rod. Plotting the correct line path is very critical to achieve smooth casting and maximum distance. This can be done without the reel by taking the measurements of the spool diameter and the distance from the center of the spool to the reel seat but it's easier to just use the reel if possible.

jeremy


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Lets not confuse "control" with "sensitivity". A big oak log is definitely not as "sensitive" as a twig to vibrations. Same principle. If you "balance" that big oak log properly, it will be much easier to "control" ie; pick it up in the middle.


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Lets not confuse "control" with "sensitivity". A big oak log is definitely not as "sensitive" as a twig to vibrations. Same principle. If you "balance" that big oak log properly, it will be much easier to "control" ie; pick it up in the middle.


I gotta be honest...you lost me on that one. I'm not sure where 'control' fits in. I've never heard that term used when refering to a fishing rod, only the fisherman. 

By balance I'm meaning that the tip of the rod should sit at a specific place when you grip the rod (with reel attached). Whether that place is parallel to the ground or tip-up is determined by the balance which can be set by the custom rod builder.

When I talk about sensitivity I'm talking about a rod's ability to transmit vibration to the fisherman's hand. That ability is dampened when weight is added. 

Again, I'm not sure where you are coming from...

jeremy


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## Alter (Apr 8, 2004)

So I guess I just don't understand how adding weight to the butt of a rod to balance it could make the rod less sensitive?

I think I have a fairly decent idea of what makes a rod sensitive. Vibrations move up the line to the rod tip and along the rod blank past the hand in the form of waves. These waves take on two different forms: longitudinal and transverse waves. The longitudinal waves run up the rod blank from tip to the hand while the transverse waves pulse out from the center of the blank to the edge perpendicular to the longitudinal waves. Sense receptors in our hand feel these vibrations where we grip the rod.

When we talk of a rod's "sensitivity" we are really talking about how well the rod transmits these waves from the rod tip to our hand. We can define how well a wave is transmitted from point A to point B by comparing the velocity and the intensity of the wave form. The velocity at which a longitudinal wave is transmitted down a rod is defined by the equation v= E/p where E=Young's modulus of elasticity and p = the density of the blank material. E is a measure of the stiffness so we can see that if all else is equal a more elastic rod will transmit longitudinal waves more rapidly than a less stiff rod; likewise decreasing a rod's density will increase the velocity of long waves. Similarly, the velocity of transverse waves through a rod blank is defined the equation v = u/p where u is the shear modulus of the blank material (which is a measure of rigidity) and p is again density of the blank material. Together these tell us that we can increase sensitivity by increasing elasticity/rigidity and/or decreasing the density of our rod blanks. The intensity of waves traveling in a rod blank is also inversely proportional to the blank material's density.

Taking all this together, it is easy to see why the "less weight" mantra exists. Lower density = more sensitive rods and if the rods are of equal volume or close to equal volume then lower weight = more sensitive rods. However, I can only see how this simplification can be applied to the rod blank between the rod tip and the hand grip. By adding weight to the butt of the rod we aren't changing the physical properties of the blank material from point A (rod tip) to point B (hand) so I don't believe the less weight = more sensitive rod can be properly extended to discussions regarding balancing a rod with a balancing kit at the rod butt.

Steve


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## Iowa Dave (Sep 27, 2009)

Well I guess that is about as scientific as you can put it


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

Alter said:


> So I guess I just don't understand how adding weight to the butt of a rod to balance it could make the rod less sensitive?
> 
> I think I have a fairly decent idea of what makes a rod sensitive. Vibrations move up the line to the rod tip and along the rod blank past the hand in the form of waves. These waves take on two different forms: longitudinal and transverse waves. The longitudinal waves run up the rod blank from tip to the hand while the transverse waves pulse out from the center of the blank to the edge perpendicular to the longitudinal waves. Sense receptors in our hand feel these vibrations where we grip the rod.
> 
> ...


Steve,

Like you said in the paragraph above "Lower density = more sensitive rods and if the rods are of equal volume or close to equal volume then lower weight = more sensitive rods"- that's exactly what I've been saying. Obviously this comparison has to be done between rods built on the exact blank, otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.

However, the addition of mass anywhere on the rod will change the frequency and amplitude of the vibration or 'wave'. The vibration still has the same total energy but has been affected by the inertia of the rod components. As inertia goes up frequency goes down and amplitude goes up. 

We are better capable of "feeling" high frequency low amplitude vibration. The buzz of a cell phone is readily detected but the rythmic low frequency high amplitude of or own heartbeat goes completely unnoticed. By reducing mass, the vibration frequency is kept higher increasing our perception of the strike. Adding mass to either end of the fulcrum has the same effect so it is not dependant on hand placement. 

The vibration is transimitted not to our hand directly but through the line to the tip top and through the fibers of the entire blank. Our hand feels the vibration of the blank through the grip. Stiffer, lighter grips transmit that vibration more effectively. The idea is to maintain the high frequency low amplitude that we are sensitive to. 

Steve, it's obvious you are a very intelligent man so I won't bore you with more discussion. Like I said earlier, if you prefer the feel of a weighted butt, then put weight in the butt of your rod and go fishing. It's a matter of personal preference. If my clients want a rod with a weighted butt, I'll do whatever they want to make them happy with the rod they are receiving. 

Happy fishing,
jeremy


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## Alter (Apr 8, 2004)

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree although you would not be boring me with more discussion. When I'm not professing I'm a bit of a rod maker myself


I do have to take one last crack at this though. Imagine the material below is a rod. Imagine the tip is on the left edge and we have a longitudinal wave moving from the source (tip) to the butt. We see the wave energy being transmitted along the length of the rod. Particles near the source transmit their energy to their neighbors in a wave moving from source to butt. Imagine your hand is in contact with the rod at about the location where the red dot is on the plane. By adding weight to the butt, we do nothing to change the physical properties of the particles that make up the rod between the source (rod tip) and the sensor (our hand) therefore we should expect adding weight downstream of our sensor to have little impact on the wave properties between the source and sensor (at least until our sensor begins getting very close to the butt end of the rod).









Hopefully that gif doesn't make anyone dizzy 

Steve


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## Bassapprentice (Apr 14, 2009)

Well folks, i never intended to start such a spirited discussion when i started this thread, but i gotta say, ya'll are some very well informed folks. I appreciate all of the information and i'm gonna give it a shot myself and see how i like it. Thank you all very much.


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## Sleprock (Dec 16, 2005)

i just read this tread and now my head hurts


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## bowhunter29 (Dec 13, 2008)

Steve,

That is one crazy illustration! I had to wait for the room to stop spinning before I could reply. 


@Steve & Iowa Dave,

It's refreshing to be able to discuss/debate things on a public forum without people getting bent out of shape. I normally avoid getting involved in discussions for that very reason. You gentleman are class acts who truly know your stuff. It's been a pleasure.

Until next time,
jeremy


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

_"It's refreshing to be able to discuss/debate things on a public forum without people getting bent out of shape. I normally avoid getting involved in discussions for that very reason. You gentleman are class acts who truly know your stuff. It's been a pleasure."_

The major difference between a discussion and an argument is that people in a discussion are capable of learning something.


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