# Premium steel versus stainless steel pocket knife



## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

I’ve never bought a high end knife. I notice some of the spyderco knives are made of cpm-s110v. Go for between 100 and 200 bucks. Supposed to have great edge retention but downside is difficult to resharpen. 

I have a lot of cheap knives i need to resharpen but never get around to.

Makes me wonder if its best to have a longer lasting knife that will retain its blade or a bunch of cheap knives that need resharpened all the time.

Anybody try the cpms110v steel? Worth it?


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## PromiseKeeper (Apr 14, 2004)

For me, I abuse knives too much to pay big bucks for one. Screwdriver, pry bar, cutting stuff I shouldn't cut with it. I'd be best off with a cheap Barlow.  I'd be afraid to use something like that let alone risking losing it. If its that hard would it be brittle? I have a Work Sharp sharpener and its easy to keep them sharp.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

I don't have anything in cpms110v, but I have some in D2, AUS-8, and 8Cr13MoV. They work fine for EDC and wont break the bank (IMO). I personally believe the steel is only as good as the manufactures heat treating.


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

The cpms110v is not a pry bar. It would snap. Hard so it has no flexibility. More like an oak tree versus a willow tree.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Kershaw knives.... Love the spring assist opening. I just cant use another knife because of it..


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## DeathFromAbove (Oct 21, 2008)

Dovans said:


> Kershaw knives.... Love the spring assist opening. I just cant use another knife because of it..


 My favorite knife of all time Didnt cost all that much either I actually got mine free for buying a used shotgun at Clelands


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## bustedrod (May 13, 2015)

I like a high carbon blade, holds a good edge sharpens nice. stainless not so much a friend ..


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

hailtothethief said:


> I’ve never bought a high end knife. I notice some of the spyderco knives are made of cpm-s110v. Go for between 100 and 200 bucks. Supposed to have great edge retention but downside is difficult to resharpen.
> 
> I have a lot of cheap knives i need to resharpen but never get around to.
> 
> ...


What are you looking for? Pocket knife. Hunting knife. Filet knife. Folding? Lot of good knives available for under $50 depending on the application. I personally prefer a high carbon steel blade.


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## bustedrod (May 13, 2015)

and get an ugly blade in carbon , not a polished job. lol especially old ones are great


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

I was looking for a skinning knife. Pocket knife. I would prefer it to be durable - able to use as a pry bar and screwdriver. But i was wanting it to have better edge retention than the stainless steel blades. 

I wanted best of both worlds. Flexibility to where it wont snap when i need to pry something but better edge retention when i hit bone and other hard surfaces.

I was hoping more money would cover both needs.


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

I got this one off amazon. I dont have any folding knives with a wood handle. Nor carbon steel knives. Plus it was cheap at 15 bucks. I didnt get hurt. Lol


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Have you looked at the Buck 110?


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

Yeah my friend showed me his buck and told me to get a buck 110.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

hailtothethief said:


> Yeah my friend showed me his buck and told me to get a buck 110.


You can probably snag one at Dicks for $40 + tax when they have the 20% coupon. Check Academy and Tractor Supply. I go mine for about $30 a couple years ago on sale. Can't remember where...


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

hailtothethief said:


> and told me to get a buck 110


It's a good knife. I bought one in the fall of 1973 for hunting. I've had it ever since and use it mainly for hunting but that knife had dressed out a whole bunch of deer, rabbits, pheasants, ducks, quail, turkeys....still going strong.


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

Cool beans yeah im gonna have to pick one up.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

My brother is a metallurgist. A steel engineer (if you will). In his seventies, but he's still excited about teaching young engineers about the creative art of steel and it's many functions.
I showed him a couple of high carbon steel knives.
He said, "what do you want it to do?", Like fishing gear, or a boat?

Soft steel flexes better and needs sharpening
Stainless= Higher Chromium
High carbon = Harder, keeps an edge, fractures under stress.

The magic is in the right combination. --Tim


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

hailtothethief said:


> I was looking for a skinning knife. Pocket knife. I would prefer it to be durable - able to use as a pry bar and screwdriver. But i was wanting it to have better edge retention than the stainless steel blades.
> 
> I wanted best of both worlds. Flexibility to where it wont snap when i need to pry something but better edge retention when i hit bone and other hard surfaces.
> 
> I was hoping more money would cover both needs.


How hard do you plan on prying with it? Most knives can be used to pry light duty tasks. If you need to really pry something id suggest getting a dedicated pry bar. As far as using it for a screw driver id also suggest getting a multi tool or sak. I believe in using the right tool for the job. Some knives I would recomend would be the Rat 1, Spyderco tenacious, cold steel recon 1, a sak(or other multi-tool) with the tools you use the most. Most of these knives are affordable and come in different steels.


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

By prying and im out and about with no tools occasionally the knife becomes other tools. 

a lot of people seem to like the 420 hc steel. Buck made the 110 out of it. Seems like the right choice.


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## PromiseKeeper (Apr 14, 2004)

and the Buck warranty and customer support is awesome. I chipped a blade once (was likely abusing it) and they replaced the knife no questions asked


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## steven miller (May 1, 2015)

hailtothethief said:


> View attachment 284825
> 
> 
> I got this one off amazon. I dont have any folding knives with a wood handle. Nor carbon steel knives. Plus it was cheap at 15 bucks. I didnt get hurt. Lol


I have 2 of the Opinels. 40 years old. Just refurbished them, cleaned up & nice and sharp now


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## Blue Pike (Apr 24, 2004)

Less than 20 bucks ------ Have one in my truck and two on the boat.
https://kershaw.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/barge


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## DiverDux (May 19, 2012)

Knives of Alaska.

https://www.knivesofalaska.com/Home


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

I'm a ******* Hillbilly from WV who loves knives....always have....always will.
I have knives in S30V, BG42, D2, 3V, A2, and I'm prolly forgetting some. My favorite? 1095 carbon steel like what's on this Unxceled Texas Toothpick. See the patina? That's from cutting up red meat. You won't get that on the above steels or 420C.
Now, Buck does make a 110 in 5160 carbon steel.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

Here's another done up in 1095 carbon steel. It's a Cattleman. Tidioule Cutlery.
Green canvas Micarta slabs.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

hailtothethief said:


> By prying and im out and about with no tools occasionally the knife becomes other tools.
> 
> a lot of people seem to like the 420 hc steel. Buck made the 110 out of it. Seems like the right choice.


Just picked one up today from Dicks for my Godson. They had them for $39.99 but I had a coupon for $10 off $50 so I picked un a couple lures to get to $50.


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## Carver (Jan 20, 2010)

Heat treating , the temper and RC is probably the most important element of a cutting blade. And sharpening is not that difficult you can strop a blade often to keep it sharp and if you need a pry bar or screw driver by one with multiple blades.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Your best bet (for what your doing with it, prying, screwdriver, etc.) is to have one hand made with a simple edge quench. 1084 high carbon with just an edge quench is quite pliable and will still retain it's incredibly hard edge. There are many home makers in the area, you just need to find the right one. A knife such as this will cost you from $75 up, an educated quess, but i asure you, you and your children will never wear it out.
All the camp knives and choppers that i make are done this way.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

P.S. i never used the 110n but i have made knives from cmp154. It is the most miserable steel to quench properly. If your off on your heat by 5 or 10 degrees, it won't harden. Also, it must be foil wrapped (and the oxygen taken out of the wrap by adding the RIGHT AMOUNT of combustibles) before heating. Then you should cool it between two heavy aluminum plates to bring the temp down quickly, but not too quickly. I don't think they are worth the money. Just my opinion.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

$diesel$ said:


> Your best bet (for what your doing with it, prying, screwdriver, etc.) is to have one hand made with a simple edge quench. 1084 high carbon with just an edge quench is quite pliable and will still retain it's incredibly hard edge. There are many home makers in the area, you just need to find the right one. A knife such as this will cost you from $75 up, an educated quess, but i asure you, you and your children will never wear it out.
> All the camp knives and choppers that i make are done this way.


Hey Diesel, I forgot you're a bladesmith. I cringe when I here about people using a pocket knife as a pry bar. I guess if it's an El Cheapo knife it'd prolly be ok. Because if it breaks, you won't cry as much. I get what you're saying about edge quench making it useful for prying, but personally, I would never use any of mine as a pry bar or a screwdriver UNLESS it was a life or death situation. 
Mine cost too much and mean too much to me. Mine can also be passed down. Call it a hillbillyism if you will.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

I agree with your post %100, Lazy8.
To me, your favorite knife should be treated like a high quality firearm. Anyway, thats how i treat mine.


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## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

Snakecharmer said:


> You can probably snag one at Dicks for $40 + tax when they have the 20% coupon. Check Academy and Tractor Supply. I go mine for about $30 a couple years ago on sale. Can't remember where...


Earlier this week Dicks has them for $31 and some change....seemed like a good price


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

$diesel$ said:


> I agree with your post %100, Lazy8.
> To me, your favorite knife should be treated like a high quality firearm. Anyway, thats how i treat mine.


take a bellinelli water fowl hunting and get a piece of mud in it and it will jam. While joe six pack with his $100 shot gun will get the bird. High quality fire arm are for skeet shooting on the range. No calibrated moving parts in a knife so a high quality knife can do the job of a cheap knife.

I’ll keep your idea in mind. I tried making my own knives before but if i find a professional around here i’ll give it a whirl.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Lazy 8 said:


> Hey Diesel, I forgot you're a bladesmith. .


Oh yea? You better give OGF a shout out when you on Forged in Fire.


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## PromiseKeeper (Apr 14, 2004)

Lazy, I think you love your knife like EZ loves his dog


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

PromiseKeeper said:


> Lazy, I think you love your knife like EZ loves his dog


Nah, if my knife pooped on my carpet....I'd boot it down the road faster than it could say, But Mommy I ruv rou.


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Kershaw


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

hailtothethief said:


> take a bellinelli water fowl hunting and get a piece of mud in it and it will jam. While joe six pack with his $100 shot gun will get the bird. High quality fire arm are for skeet shooting on the range. No calibrated moving parts in a knife so a high quality knife can do the job of a cheap knife.


Think Smith or Colt revolver.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Dovans said:


> Oh yea? You better give OGF a shout out when you on Forged in Fire.


Not me, Dovans. Those guys are way beyond my abilities.
I do know a young man from the Akron area that will be on "Knife or Death" this years second episode. He will also be on "Forged in Fire" at a later date.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

hailtothethief said:


> I’ll keep your idea in mind. I tried making my own knives before but if i find a professional around here i’ll give it a whirl.


Thats half the battle right there, hailtothethief. You know how to make them, so do it yourself. Just heat the lower 1/3 of the blade and quench. It's that easy if using high carbon.
A better way is to cover the top 2/3's of the blade with furnace cement before heating then quench. Just a real pain in the a$$ to remove the heated cement.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

$diesel$ said:


> Not me, Dovans. Those guys are way beyond my abilities.
> I do know a young man from the Akron area that will be on "Knife or Death" this years second episode. He will also be on "Forged in Fire" at a later date.


There is actually a guy that lives in Amanda who was runner up on that show. I asked how much for a knife from his stock the price was just little too high for me.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

I like a high carbon stainless. I also carry a straight blade, when hunting. I've seen some nasty cuts when a folding knife fails. Even though I do carry one, I only use it for light duty, like cutting rope and opening boxes.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

JamesF said:


> I like a high carbon stainless. I also carry a straight blade, when hunting. I've seen some nasty cuts when a folding knife fails. Even though I do carry one, I only use it for light duty, like cutting rope and opening boxes.


Yes, the carbon stainless are great, but very hard to produce properly (like the cmp 154) which in my opinion, makes them over priced for the average Joe.
I agree with your take on folders for outdoorsmens use. Just can't beat a full-tanged straight blade for the campsite.
I have found that a super high chrome-like finish on a 1084+ blade makes them VERY rust resistant. But to get that finish, it also makes them expensive as for all the hours of hand-sanding required.

I have been hearing lately a lot of guys are "powder coating" the high carbons to help with rust prevention, but again, price gets in the way.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Dovans said:


> There is actually a guy that lives in Amanda who was runner up on that show. I asked how much for a knife from his stock the price was just little too high for me.


None of my business, Dovans, but how much for what knive if you don't mind posting it.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Here is a skinner i'm working on now for my cousin. It's hand-sanded up to 600 grit. I will take it up to 2000 grit and acid etch his initials in the blade. Thats another solid 8 hours before i install handle scales and make a sheath.
All that TIME is where the high prices come from.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

Nice looking blade. A lot of bladesmiths send their knives off to this place/guy and have them professionally heat treated. Then in their sale ad they'll say, heat treat by Peter's.
I've got a Buck 110 in BG42 heat treated by BOS.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

Here's that Buck. I also sent it to Leroy Reamer in CA who retired from Buck after, a few decades to have him remove the Dymondwood and he replaced them with black canvas Micarta. Leroy also added a slight palm swell in the slabs.
If you zoom in you can see the BOS heat treat logo.


Here's a pic showing the palm swell better.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

$diesel$ said:


> None of my business, Dovans, but how much for what knive if you don't mind posting it.


500.00
didnt get into any specific make..


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

That would be some knife. Do you happen to know what steel he uses?


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Lazy 8 said:


> That would be some knife. Do you happen to know what steel he uses?


leaf springs


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

Dovans said:


> leaf springs


Nice and resilient. Prolly something like 5160 spring steel. Makes GREAT choppers and swords.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Beautiful Buck knife, Lazy. And a job well done. I have my own computer operated heat treating oven that takes the guess work out of it all. After using it for 4 years, i'm finally get'n the hang of it.

I feel that $500 is way too much, Dovans, unless you have quite a name and rep. Some of these guys price their selves out of sales. I think i can build any knife of high quality for half that price. I'm sure it wouldn't be quite as pretty, but funtionally equal.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

P.S. Lazy, micarta is my favorite scale material, indestructable! BTW, i make my own paper micarta as well.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

$diesel$ said:


> P.S. Lazy, micarta is my favorite scale material, indestructable! BTW, i make my own paper micarta as well.


Whoa! For grippiness I like canvas micarta. (Wet hands)
For a Sunday church/gentleman's knife, I'd go with paper.
Dovan's, I agree with Diesel, that's a whole lot of money. The only time I see knives costing that much is when they're embellished with something like Damascus steel, or Wooly Mammoth scales or possibly Mother of Pearl.


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

You guys are bad ass lol


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Lazy 8 said:


> Here's that Buck. I also sent it to Leroy Reamer in CA who retired from Buck after, a few decades to have him remove the Dymondwood and he replaced them with black canvas Micarta. Leroy also added a slight palm swell in the slabs.
> If you zoom in you can see the BOS heat treat logo.
> 
> 
> Here's a pic showing the palm swell better.


Purdy....Looks like you polished it with owl's poo...


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

hailtothethief said:


> You guys are bad ass lol


Thanks Chief. I love knives. They're in my hillbilly blood. One of these days/months/years I'll be asking Diesel questions about making knives.


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

I just hammered old spoons down and heated them in fire. Guess i got more to learn lol


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## PromiseKeeper (Apr 14, 2004)

I'd like to hang out in diesel's shop a few days to watch and learn. This stuff intrigues me and I wouldn't know where to start.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

PromiseKeeper said:


> I'd like to hang out in diesel's shop a few days to watch and learn. This stuff intrigues me and I wouldn't know where to start.


Any time, P.K. love to have the company.

It's not very hard, just have the will to start and go at it. It does get a bit expensive if one gets in as deeply as i am, but what the heck, i'd probably be sit'n in some bar BS'n and spending more money.
Also, be prepared to loose more money from catastrophic mistakes. Lord knows how many blades i've trashed cause they didn't meet my stadards.
I have to admit though, it's one hell of a feeling of accomplishment when one comes out as planned.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

P.S. With the paper, Lazy, i'll use opposing grooves on the scale sides and shape the handle for maximum grip. But you are correct, canvas and more so, burlap, give one all they need to hang on to it. I have even used denim in my marcarta.

The first ever butcher knife i made for a friend. That micarta grip was made from an old poker shirt that no longer fit my fat a$$.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Yes it can get very expensive if go all in(pun intended), from the beginning. I worked in a specialty steel mill for over 40years. At times we would send some to a heat treating company in Canton, they had good facility with excellent results, but they were expensive. At times we had furnaces just for heat treating, but then they would take on more than we could handle and started to use them as forging furnaces. This would just ruin the integrity of the entire furnace. I knew a few older guys that would buy scrap from the company at next to nothing. Knife making is an art. Before the plant shut down we had some very exotic steels, to this day I'm kicking myself for not buying any. There was a point when the customers demand was too strict for their own prices, we didn't warehouse much then. We had access to test peices. The possibilities with these steels are endless. Thanks for sharing.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Very true about the different steels, James. I recommend the 1080 + class of steels to these gentlemen because it's the easiest to quench. The quench makes or breaks the blade. One might spend $50 on blade steel and two-three weeks making and finishing the blade only to ruin it at the quench. Thus, good steel for guys starting out. My tempering oven cost me 2 G's so i use it only as recommended.
Very good, going all in.......hahahahaha.

36 years in a steel mill myself.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

Diesel - I always reckoned whenever I got around to start making knives, I'd use leaf springs until I got the hang of it.
BTW, I have a copy of Wayne Goddards $50 knife shop. I figure I might as well start small. Didn't you?


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

My very first one made from a 25 cent flea market file and an angle grinder.


Yes, very small. And your leaf spring idea i did as well.
I can tell by your affection for the blade that you will be a damn good smith. Anyone who loves knives with your passion will be satisfied with nothing less than blade perfection. I hope i'm still around when you start, i can't wait to see your creations!


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

God Bless You Diesel! 
My Dad always told me before he died, son, if you bring me a 1 or 2 man cross cut saw, I'll make you the best knife you ever had. 
Well, like a big dummy, I never did. BUT, I've since then bought an old 2 man cross cut saw without handles. Been stored in a barn so no rust, just age and patina. 
Someday I'm going to make some knives out of it. I know Dad will be watching and helping me.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

That steel should be great for some blsdes, easily hardenable.
Just make sure to spark test any mystery steel. You should get heavy yellow-blue sparks from your grinder if it's hardenable.
I wouldn't worry much, those old saw blades usually work just fine.
Can't wait to see your blades!


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Got da skinner done at last, Lazy.















1095 with imported Italian olive wood grips. Toughestnastiest wood i ever worked with.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

hailtothethief said:


> View attachment 284825
> 
> 
> I got this one off amazon. I dont have any folding knives with a wood handle. Nor carbon steel knives. Plus it was cheap at 15 bucks. I didnt get hurt. Lol


I have one of those. nice knife for the price. I don't think it will take much abuse though, more of a "gentlemen's" pocket knife, IMO


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

Here is one that may fit your needs.. I picked this one up at a knife show in Louisville. Built like a tank. I met the owner of the company, a great guy, only has one leg, named his company Cripple Creek and uses a 3 legged Buffalo as his logo..lol


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

Lazy 8 said:


> I'm a ******* Hillbilly from WV who loves knives....always have....always will.
> I have knives in S30V, BG42, D2, 3V, A2, and I'm prolly forgetting some. My favorite? 1095 carbon steel like what's on this Unxceled Texas Toothpick. See the patina? That's from cutting up red meat. You won't get that on the above steels or 420C.
> Now, Buck does make a 110 in 5160 carbon steel.





Lazy 8 said:


> I'm a ******* Hillbilly from WV who loves knives....always have....always will.
> I have knives in S30V, BG42, D2, 3V, A2, and I'm prolly forgetting some. My favorite? 1095 carbon steel like what's on this Unxceled Texas Toothpick. See the patina? That's from cutting up red meat. You won't get that on the above steels or 420C.
> Now, Buck does make a 110 in 5160 carbon steel.


 Lazy, I think you are right,, It's in our blood..lol,, here are a few.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

$diesel$ said:


> Yes, the carbon stainless are great, but very hard to produce properly (like the cmp 154) which in my opinion, makes them over priced for the average Joe.
> I agree with your take on folders for outdoorsmens use. Just can't beat a full-tanged straight blade for the campsite.
> I have found that a super high chrome-like finish on a 1084+ blade makes them VERY rust resistant. But to get that finish, it also makes them expensive as for all the hours of hand-sanding required.
> 
> I have been hearing lately a lot of guys are "powder coating" the high carbons to help with rust prevention, but again, price gets in the way.





$diesel$ said:


> Yes, the carbon stainless are great, but very hard to produce properly (like the cmp 154) which in my opinion, makes them over priced for the average Joe.
> I agree with your take on folders for outdoorsmens use. Just can't beat a full-tanged straight blade for the campsite.
> I have found that a super high chrome-like finish on a 1084+ blade makes them VERY rust resistant. But to get that finish, it also makes them expensive as for all the hours of hand-sanding required.
> 
> I have been hearing lately a lot of guys are "powder coating" the high carbons to help with rust prevention, but again, price gets in the way.





$diesel$ said:


> Yes, the carbon stainless are great, but very hard to produce properly (like the cmp 154) which in my opinion, makes them over priced for the average Joe.
> I agree with your take on folders for outdoorsmens use. Just can't beat a full-tanged straight blade for the campsite.
> I have found that a super high chrome-like finish on a 1084+ blade makes them VERY rust resistant. But to get that finish, it also makes them expensive as for all the hours of hand-sanding required.
> 
> I have been hearing lately a lot of guys are "powder coating" the high carbons to help with rust prevention, but again, price gets in the way.


I have few what I choose to call, bushcraft knives. Camp knives. Usually a 4" blade and a 4 1/2" handle with a full tang. All have belt sheaths so I can strap one on anytime I head out into, Gods Wild Blue Yonder.
This one has 3V steel. It's also designed around the Horace Kephart style. Here's more about the steel.
https://knifeup.com/cpm-3v-knife-steel-overview/


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Love the M14, Slatebar. I have a Springfeild M1a, pretty much the same rifle. It is also my favorite long gun of all that i own.


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

$diesel$ said:


> Love the M14, Slatebar. I have a Springfeild M1a, pretty much the same rifle. It is also my favorite long gun of all that i own.


 Yep great Coyote rifles.. This one is also the SA M1A . All GI Parts except bbl and receiver. Very accurate.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Hey Lazy8, that 3V is a new one on me. 1000* three times to release the carbon molecules tells me it's harder than my head! Normally on carbon knives, 200-500 degrees is what i use depending on hardness i'm trying to achieve.
I know a lot of guys use a cryo bath immediately after temper to reach 60 + RC on some steels.
Sounds like i'll have to give it a try. Thanks, Lazy.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

$diesel$ said:


> Hey Lazy8, that 3V is a new one on me. 1000* three times to release the carbon molecules tells me it's harder than my head! Normally on carbon knives, 200-500 degrees is what i use depending on hardness i'm trying to achieve.
> I know a lot of guys use a cryo bath immediately after temper to reach 60 + RC on some steels.
> Sounds like i'll have to give it a try. Thanks, Lazy.


Yea, from all the chatter on Bladeforums, you'd think it was a Super Duper Steel. I can remember when BG 42 was IT. THEN S30V became the steel to have. Now it's 3V this and 3V that. Wonder when something will replace 3V....cause you know it will.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

Slatebar said:


> View attachment 287663
> View attachment 287667
> View attachment 287669
> View attachment 287671
> ...


SB, yea...you got the fever. I LOVE your family shot there. Mighty sweet looking family. Coal miners?
Is that long rifle what the Mini 14 was patterned after?


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

$diesel$ said:


> P.S. With the paper, Lazy, i'll use opposing grooves on the scale sides and shape the handle for maximum grip. But you are correct, canvas and more so, burlap, give one all they need to hang on to it. I have even used denim in my marcarta.
> 
> The first ever butcher knife i made for a friend. That micarta grip was made from an old poker shirt that no longer fit my fat a$$.


 Good looking knife.. How long have you been making them?


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

$diesel$ said:


> Got da skinner done at last, Lazy.
> View attachment 287629
> View attachment 287631
> 
> 1095 with imported Italian olive wood grips. Toughestnastiest wood i ever worked with.


Diesel, this is one sweet looking skinner. It looks like one of those knives that when you grip it....you just KNOW it's right. 
I'll tell you some other tough wood. Have you ever cut a green limb off an Osage tree? I took a bow saw to one that was on a fence line. Geez, I need a new blade.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Lol, my friend, i'm hear'n ya. As a kid my dad used to have me collect the Osage "oranges" to put in our cellar. Pop said they kept the spiders at bay,.....ah, no, they didn't.
I do know how hard it is, but i never looked at the grain. Is it nice, Lazy? Does it have any pattern to it? When using wood scales i like something well patterned.

They say the Native Americans in these parts used to use osage wood to make they're bows. Gotta be quite hard for bow making, no?


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

The few pieces I was able to hack off the tree really aren't that great. I need to go back with different tools and try to get some more. Also, this stuff is 2nd growth? It's what sprouted years ago after the power company came thru and topped the trees. So I don't know how that affects things. 
I sent you a PM with a link to some knife forums where a maker is selling some Osage blocks. (They are bookended)
On the same forum, the have a section for Axes, Hatchets and Saws. On there, I learned that the good wood for knife slabs, axe hats, and bows, should come from the center of the trunk or a huge limb. Then it should age for at least one year. They also recommend sealing the ends of the wood when you first cut it to ward off checks and cracks as it ages. 
I love that site. I've learned a lot.
Another section is called, Around the grinder, where you can ask makers questions about knifemaking.
Good luck my friend.


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)

My experience with hedgeapple wood (Osage) is it is relatively soft when green but dries out hard as a rock. Makes great firewood


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Lazy 8 said:


> The few pieces I was able to hack off the tree really aren't that great. I need to go back with different tools and try to get some more. Also, this stuff is 2nd growth? It's what sprouted years ago after the power company came thru and topped the trees. So I don't know how that affects things.
> I sent you a PM with a link to some knife forums where a maker is selling some Osage blocks. (They are bookended)
> On the same forum, the have a section for Axes, Hatchets and Saws. On there, I learned that the good wood for knife slabs, axe hats, and bows, should come from the center of the trunk or a huge limb. Then it should age for at least one year. They also recommend sealing the ends of the wood when you first cut it to ward off checks and cracks as it ages.
> I love that site. I've learned a lot.
> ...


WOW, lazy, the structure is beautiful and dead in my strike zone. I will definitally be using this in the near future! Thanks a ton, Lazy.









I can get it down on the river bank bout a 150 yards from my house. Another job for me this weekend.
I think i will join that sight, my friend, looks like a good one.

P.S. i believe i can dry that wood out in my tempering oven in a couple of days, we'll see as i might go snatch some up tomorrow morning.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

A lot of companies and makers charge extra for Osage orange wood.


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## polebender (Oct 29, 2011)

Lazy 8 said:


> A lot of companies and makers charge extra for Osage orange wood.


Good ol’ Shelby Stanga can get it for you at a good price!


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Met with an bow maker years ago in Oklahoma. All he used was Osage. He made a lot of decorative bows from extra material, but he made some true shooting bows. He was a trick shooter, and deadly out to rangers that some compounds reach today. He makes just about any Native American Indian weapons, he is a master craftsman and an expert with all weapons he makes. He taught me how to correctly throw a tomahawk, he sourced his steel from the local railroad. He lived on the Res.as he called it, but once he started making high quality products he left due to what he said was jealousy and theft . I couldn't purchase anything, because he worked on commission. He had some very beautiful pieces.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

$diesel$ said:


> WOW, lazy, the structure is beautiful and dead in my strike zone. I will definitally be using this in the near future! Thanks a ton, Lazy.
> 
> View attachment 287901
> 
> ...


Whatcha gonna use to cut it with?


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

JamesF said:


> Met with an bow maker years ago in Oklahoma. All he used was Osage. He made a lot of decorative bows from extra material, but he made some true shooting bows. He was a trick shooter, and deadly out to rangers that some compounds reach today. He makes just about any Native American Indian weapons, he is a master craftsman and an expert with all weapons he makes. He taught me how to correctly throw a tomahawk, he sourced his steel from the local railroad. He lived on the Res.as he called it, but once he started making high quality products he left due to what he said was jealousy and theft . I couldn't purchase anything, because he worked on commission. He had some very beautiful pieces.


James - he sounds like somebody I'd like to apprentice.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

I have a small, cheap 16" chainsaw i HOPE will cut through it. If not, i'll over sharpen one of several hatchets that i have and hack off enought for pair of scales. Your very smart, Lazy. You always think of things my old, slow mind does not.
Very good thinking, sir.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

JamesF said:


> Met with an bow maker years ago in Oklahoma. All he used was Osage. He made a lot of decorative bows from extra material, but he made some true shooting bows. He was a trick shooter, and deadly out to rangers that some compounds reach today. He makes just about any Native American Indian weapons, he is a master craftsman and an expert with all weapons he makes. He taught me how to correctly throw a tomahawk, he sourced his steel from the local railroad. He lived on the Res.as he called it, but once he started making high quality products he left due to what he said was jealousy and theft . I couldn't purchase anything, because he worked on commission. He had some very beautiful pieces.


Some guys can do near anything, James. I found, unfortunately, in my old age that any man can if he puts his mind to it. I'd bet you could make some outstanding osage bows as well if you put you had the desire to.

About 20-25 years ago my buddy picked up this hand made knife for me while hunting in Coshocton county from what he said was a very old man. The story goes, the old fella







had the source product on his property. He was a farmer and suplemented his income selling these knives. I am very proud to own it.
My friend, knowing my love of knives, picked it up for me knowing i would have no problem paying him back the $100 he gave for it.
And, i believe the blade to be Obsidien rather than flint, however, i am not sure.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

$diesel$ said:


> I have a small, cheap 16" chainsaw i HOPE will cut through it. If not, i'll over sharpen one of several hatchets that i have and hack off enought for pair of scales. Your very smart, Lazy. You always think of things my old, slow mind does not.
> Very good thinking, sir.


Thanks Diesel. You know what they say. Every blind squirrel finds an acorn once in his life. 


$diesel$ said:


> Some guys can do near anything, James. I found, unfortunately, in my old age that any man can if he puts his mind to it. I'd bet you could make some outstanding osage bows as well if you put you had the desire to.
> 
> About 20-25 years ago my buddy picked up this hand made knife for me while hunting in Coshocton county from what he said was a very old man. The story goes, the old fella
> View attachment 287995
> ...


What a beautiful knife! That looks like an heirloom to me. 
I would bet you 2 nickels that's real sinew he used.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Yes, it is real sinew.

I finally got my osage orange the other day, lazy. Your right again, man, just like you said. It's very nicely grained and very heavy for it's size. I believe i'm gonna like this wood a lot. Thanks again for turning me on to it, my friend.


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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

Mora knives, my all time favorite knife company. I have expensive knives like the spiderco para military, falkniven S1 and F1, Boker kwaniken, some older case trappers, but I always grab my mora to clip to my pants. It does everything very well. At less than $15 a knife, when I lose it, not break it because I’ve yet to break one, I just buy another. I have stainless and high carbon. I actually like both versions equally the same. If the came out with a lock back folder, I’d be a gitty.


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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

Lazy 8...your a knife maker? 
So am I !!!
I’ve been making knives since 2008. I built my 2x72, my gas forge, heat treat oven for exotic steels, salt bath, and dome fixtures. You should stop by Sometime. Maybe we can learn from each other?


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Actually, i don't think Lazy 8 is making 'm yet, but i do. Been making since 2012. I also have a heat treat oven and about 10 grand in other tools including a power hammer and forge.
Lazy just turned me on to osage orange wood which i really like, but have yet to make a set of scales from it.
Glad to see another smith on here and good luck to you, Alwaysfishin.

I don't use a salt bath and don't know what dome fixtures are?


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

allwayzfishin said:


> Lazy 8...your a knife maker?
> So am I !!!
> I’ve been making knives since 2008. I built my 2x72, my gas forge, heat treat oven for exotic steels, salt bath, and dome fixtures. You should stop by Sometime. Maybe we can learn from each other?


Diesel's right, I'm not making knives yet. That'll prolly be when I retire. You oughta post up some pics of some of your creations?
Diesel - I'm glad you like the osage. Like I said, a lot of makers will have 2 or 3 prices for slabs. Osage is always the top tier costing more than most anything else. That is of wood and micarta.


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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

I’ve been tossing around the idea of making a power hammer or finding a log splitter to convert into a hydraulic press. My old phone had a bunch of pics. Lemme see if I can find some. 

The first one, sheepsfoot style 1095 from an old Nicholson file. (1095)

The second one is a skinner from 15n20


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Lazy 8 said:


> Diesel's right, I'm not making knives yet. That'll prolly be when I retire. You oughta post up some pics of some of your creations?
> Diesel - I'm glad you like the osage. Like I said, a lot of makers will have 2 or 3 prices for slabs. Osage is always the top tier costing more than most anything else. That is of wood and micarta.


Ya, really like it, my friend. I'm thinking about using it on this recurve bowie i'm make'n for a friend. Plan WAS, army green micarta scales in an army green Kydex sheath. Now i'm think'n osage scales in a medium brown leather sheath. Not sure yet.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

allwayzfishin said:


> The first one, sheepsfoot style 1095 from an old Nicholson file. (1095)
> 
> The second one is a skinner from 15n20


Very nice work, Alwaysfishen. Your fit and finish looks great. Thats the toughest part of the build, for me, kinda holds my work back some.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

I picked this Boker up the other day online. It's an "automatic" 
View attachment 289031


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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

$diesel$ said:


> Very nice work, Alwaysfishen. Your fit and finish looks great. Thats the toughest part of the build, for me, kinda holds my work back some.


Thanks man, I’ll to show my very first one made from a farriers rasp. I still use it often. When I go into the garage I’ll grab it


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

boatnut said:


> I picked this Boker up the other day online. It's an "automatic"
> View attachment 289031


Be careful with that thing. I had one, reached in my pocket to pull it out and it decided it wanted to automatically open up in my pocket. I was lucky I didn't end up with any red fingers.
I sold it.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

allwayzfishin said:


> I’ve been tossing around the idea of making a power hammer or finding a log splitter to convert into a hydraulic press. My old phone had a bunch of pics. Lemme see if I can find some.
> 
> The first one, sheepsfoot style 1095 from an old Nicholson file. (1095)
> 
> The second one is a skinner from 15n20


Always...man! Those are sweet. I agree with diesel. Your fit and finish are very nice!



$diesel$ said:


> Ya, really like it, my friend. I'm thinking about using it on this recurve bowie i'm make'n for a friend. Plan WAS, army green micarta scales in an army green Kydex sheath. Now i'm think'n osage scales in a medium brown leather sheath. Not sure yet.


Diesel- I don't think you could go wrong with either choice. I like em both!


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## mashunter18 (Jun 23, 2005)

Years ago I had a 'skinner" with a 6" or so blade. Elephant ivory handle with a carved elephant in it. Had a slight yellow stain to it, beautiful knife. Was a surgical steel that thing kept en edge better then any other knife iv ever had. Unfortunately the knife was "lost". Im pretty sure I know who did it but its long gone now and that was many years ago. If you tried to commission that knife I bet it would run 1000$ plus I paid 250 for it back then. Not sure you could even get the elephant ivory anymore. My buddy bought it at a show in the early 90's and sold it to me when he ran across hard times. He could of bought it back but he never did.

Iv been looking the last couple months and some of the stuff you can do and have done on knives is crazy. Iv got a buck 110 would love to change out the handles to mammoth scale, not sure on exactly everything you have to do. I also have a Bowie knife with surgical blade that stays nice and sharp would love to trade those handles out as well, but that one doesn't have pins or they are hidden. Looks like 2 pieces of wood joined together top and bottom, I can see a seam where they meet.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

allwayzfishin said:


> Thanks man, I’ll to show my very first one made from a farriers rasp. I still use it often. When I go into the garage I’ll grab it


Sweet, i have about 3 or 4 old ferriers rasps i been saving. I've never made a knife for my self yet and thats what i'm fix'n to make. They are beautiful if done right.
Can't wait to see a pic of yours.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

mashunter18, you are correct, i don't think one could get the ivory for a grand, if at all. With the poaching of the elephant, they have put some brutal regulations on all types of ivory.
These days though, one can buy all kinds of crazy stuff for the scales. One supplier i deal with often, Jantz Supply, has MAMMOTH ivory for sell. Quite expensive, but are freak'n gorgeous. Take a look at "handle material" on this site. There are literally 100's of kinds of scale material.

As far as changing out the scales on your buck or bowie, good luck. One of the toughest jobs going in this field. IMO, i wouldn't even mess with it, to much work for me. (i'm old and lazy)


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## twistedcatfish1971 (Jul 21, 2013)

...all I know is don't buy the cheap knives at Walmart. Standard pocket knife for under $4. I always buy these knives mostly for cutbait situations...but just a few days ago at work I had the knife on me and used it to clean/pick a machine and it folded on my finger. Now it's my fault and I was stupid to use it for the situation at hand but did it anyway. Don't go cheap with a knife ... let alone do the <stupid> thing and try to cutbait your finger. 

Don.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Nasty bite, there TCF. The main reason i don't make folders. I don't want someone to hurt theirself because of a mistake i made.


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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

allwayzfishin said:


> Thanks man, I’ll to show my very first one made from a farriers rasp. I still use it often. When I go into the garage I’ll grab it


Here’s my first. Made from farrier rasp, epoxy soaked cloth belt scales and aluminum nails as pins. It’s a beast but it’s been thru Hell and back. 
Been sitting on my shelf now for the past 4 years. I should clean it up and bring it back to it’s glorious state. So here’s my 2x72 I build in 2008. And the heat treat furnace I built in 2016. I built the propane forge right after the electric furnace. I haven’t made any knives tho this year because I’ve been recovering from a TBI. Just now getting my wits back so hopefully I’ll clean up the garage and create something soon. I’ve been focusing on some fishing lately because it’s my peace and quiet to think. I almost had to sell a lot of things to keep my house but Through the grace of god, I’m gonna be ok. Gotta stay positive. It’s been a year since my accident and I’m feeling more confident nowadays.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

I'm sorry, i don't know TBI. What ever happened to you, sorry for that as well.
Great look'n first one though, brother. Excellent looking job on your homemade equipment. If i had your production talent, i'd be thousands of dollars ahead!
I bought my 2x72 frame and made all my accessories myself. I have so much stuff now, i probably can't remember everything i have.....lol. It is certainly not a cheap hobby to get into.
Good luck on your health and i will send a prayer out for you.


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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

Finished this one tonight. 
1095 with old oak hardwood I pulled out the house last year. Aluminum pins. It’s been awhile since my last knife made, and it’s ugly but functional and scary sharp. Good hunting or bushcraft knife. My freehand grind is a lil off but I’ll do better on my next one. Felt good to put one together


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

mashunter18 said:


> Years ago I had a 'skinner" with a 6" or so blade. Elephant ivory handle with a carved elephant in it. Had a slight yellow stain to it, beautiful knife. Was a surgical steel that thing kept en edge better then any other knife iv ever had. Unfortunately the knife was "lost". Im pretty sure I know who did it but its long gone now and that was many years ago. If you tried to commission that knife I bet it would run 1000$ plus I paid 250 for it back then. Not sure you could even get the elephant ivory anymore. My buddy bought it at a show in the early 90's and sold it to me when he ran across hard times. He could of bought it back but he never did.
> 
> Iv been looking the last couple months and some of the stuff you can do and have done on knives is crazy. Iv got a buck 110 would love to change out the handles to mammoth scale, not sure on exactly everything you have to do. I also have a Bowie knife with surgical blade that stays nice and sharp would love to trade those handles out as well, but that one doesn't have pins or they are hidden. Looks like 2 pieces of wood joined together top and bottom, I can see a seam where they meet.


Hey, I know a guy who worked for Buck Knives for 20 or 30 years. He's retired now out in CA but still does work. Here's my 110 in BG42 steel. Heat treat by Paul Bos. This knife came with the cheap, plasticky, Dymondwood. Leroy replaced that with my favorite, black Micarta. If you look close you can se the slight palm swell.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

allwayzfishin said:


> View attachment 289659
> View attachment 289661
> View attachment 289663
> Finished this one tonight.
> 1095 with old oak hardwood I pulled out the house last year. Aluminum pins. It’s been awhile since my last knife made, and it’s ugly but functional and scary sharp. Good hunting or bushcraft knife. My freehand grind is a lil off but I’ll do better on my next one. Felt good to put one together


NICE knife brother! Your older one reminds me of a Becker.


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## mashunter18 (Jun 23, 2005)

$diesel$ said:


> mashunter18, you are correct, i don't think one could get the ivory for a grand, if at all. With the poaching of the elephant, they have put some brutal regulations on all types of ivory.
> These days though, one can buy all kinds of crazy stuff for the scales. One supplier i deal with often, Jantz Supply, has MAMMOTH ivory for sell. Quite expensive, but are freak'n gorgeous. Take a look at "handle material" on this site. There are literally 100's of kinds of scale material.
> 
> As far as changing out the scales on your buck or bowie, good luck. One of the toughest jobs going in this field. IMO, i wouldn't even mess with it, to much work for me. (i'm old and lazy)


Cool thanks for the info. Before I mess with those 2 knives, I bought 3 skinner blade blanks
and a few wood scales from Jantz. Bought some pin material as well. Pretty much an assembly type kit, just shape the wood handle and finish everything. I did find a guy "fineturnage" in Texas with 100's of mammoth scales for sale. I bought one cheaper set that looked cool. Figure Ill mess with the wood scales first and try the mammoth last.




Lazy 8 said:


> Hey, I know a guy who worked for Buck Knives for 20 or 30 years. He's retired now out in CA but still does work. Here's my 110 in BG42 steel. Heat treat by Paul Bos. This knife came with the cheap, plasticky, Dymondwood. Leroy replaced that with my favorite, black Micarta. If you look close you can se the slight palm swell.



Cool that's pretty slick looking.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Good deal, mashunter18. Maybe we can turn you into another bladesmith. Did you like Jantz? My favorite supplier as they have near everything.
Just made a skinner for my cousin using 1095 steel and imported Italian olive wood.


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## mashunter18 (Jun 23, 2005)

Yeah Jantz had some cool stuff for sure. That blade smith work would require a lot of stuff I don't have, have to see how these kits go Keep me busy until the crappie start hitting this spring, unless I go down with winter saugeye guys.
Definitely some skills needed with the metal work. You do the leather sheath on that skinner as well?? I Like that. I did buy some sheath kits as well. Thought about buying raw materials for that as my wife and niece have all the leather tools.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Ya, did it myself. I make the Kydex sheaths as well. Started watching the how to's on youtube and took it from there. No hard at all, just be prepaired to pitch out a few early bad ones, i know i did.
I like to make sheath to go with knives. A knife seems naked with out a sheath, to me anyway.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Almost done. Just gotta fine tune it.
Plenty more fine sanding on the scales and bolster.
BTW, Lazy 8, that is your osage orange grips. Very hard to work with, as hard as that Italian olive, but it's absolutely gorgeous. It has no finish on it yet and look how good it looks.


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## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

Wo
[QE="Wow, post: 2556097, member: 23289"]My brother is a metallurgist. A steel engineer (if you will). In his seventies, but he's still excited about teaching young engineers about the creative art of steel and it's many functions.
I showed him a couple of high carbon steel knives.
He said, "what do you want it to do?", Like fishing gear, or a boat?

Soft steel flexes better and needs sharpening
Stainless= Higher Chromium
High carbon = Harder, keeps an edge, fractures under stress.

The magic is in the right combination. --Tim

View attachment 284861
[/QUOTE]
Wow, how do you find a monkey pic for Every theme?!


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

I wondered that myself... I think he has a photo studio and a bunch of pet monkeys..


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

To me, the best all around blade, is an edge quenched high carbon one. You get the longest lasting edge and the high ductibility of the softer spine. Only thing one must pay attention to is rust, it WILL rust if not taken care of properly.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

The Bowie/Chopper is finally done. 1095 blade and osage orange grips.


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## PromiseKeeper (Apr 14, 2004)

that looks awesome diesel! you're a fine craftsman.


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

I LOVE THE OSAGE ORANGE!


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## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

Whoa diesel! Great knife!

I love your blade style. Its like a Spanish? military sheath knife I have. It has a seriously aggressive sawback on its top edge.
Yours has a longer front tip design that I like better.

Did you tool the leather also?


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

PromiseKeeper said:


> that looks awesome diesel! you're a fine craftsman.


Thank you, PK. It gives me something to keep my mind occupied now that i've retired.



Lazy 8 said:


> I LOVE THE OSAGE ORANGE!


Yessir, Lazy. Thanks for turning me on to it. It does look great.



Ruminator said:


> Whoa diesel! Great knife!
> 
> I love your blade style. Its like a Spanish? military sheath knife I have. It has a seriously aggressive sawback on its top edge.
> Yours has a longer front tip design that I like better.
> ...


Thanks, Rumi. It's basicly a camp/bushcraft knive. Great chopper and you can cut your steak with it as well. Yes, i do the leather too as well as Kydex sheaths.


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## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

The dimensions?


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

9 1/2" blade, 2" tall. 5" handle.


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