# Live bait question.



## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

I was out yesterday fishing the Big Darby. When I headed back to the car I came across a guy that was bass fishing with live bait. I watched him catch a nice smallmouth and let it go. He was not keeping any of the fish he caught just having some fun. 

How do you fill about bass fishing with live bait?


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

I fill fine about fishing for bass with livebait? Ever use softcrawls for smallies? And the next time you're out fishing a farm pond, tadpoles and small frogs can be hard to beat sometimes.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

I think that it is cheating. No moral or ethical objections, I just think that it reveals a lack of skill.

Fortunately, I am so skilled at the art of bass fishing that I would never have to resort to live bait.


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## Catslammer (May 17, 2004)

I decided that after last year of not catching many fish, I was going give live bait a shot this year. So far in the last few weeks, I have caught more fish than I did all of last year (not counting catfish). Most of my bass have been smaller. But I really havn't ventured to larger waters yet. Most of my pond access is public, so the pressure is little high. I also have found out that I have under estimated the fun in pursuing gills and crappie.  

I definatly have had more fun this year with a bobber, and nightcrawlers/wax worms/minnows than spending trip after trip being skunked last year. If you like to cover more water, my favorite bass bait is a nightcrawler, with a small sinker about 12'' up the line. It is just a little hard to cast far without it tearing off the hook.

Catslammer out.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I dont think there is anything wrong with live bait.I am also in favor of catch and release.


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## oufisherman (Apr 10, 2004)

I don't see nothing wrong with it. I've caught a few three to five pound bass out of ponds while crappie fishing with minnows. I would rather use artificials but sometimes I want to simply catch fish. I would love to give smallies a shot with soft craws!


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Though I prefer to use artificial bait, there are times when live bait produces better and that is what I'll use. I can recall a smallmouth trip with Lundy when I stayed with artificial until he landed his fourth bass on golden shiners. I switched to live bait and proceeded to catch fish.


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## twistertail (Apr 10, 2004)

I dont have a problem with it but I hardly ever use live bait just because its easier to just grab my vest with all my stuff in it and not have to stop and get live bait. Seems like some people dont like to use live bait for bass but its ok for crappie, why is that? Is it just that they think its too easy to catch bass with live bait and want more of a challenge?


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

I too hardly ever use live bait because getting live bait can be a hassle and expensive. But I agree with Mr. Brich in that I'll use whatever they are hitting. I fish to have fun which means catching fish so whatever means necessary as far as bait goes.

What type of bait was the guy fishing with Walter?


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I see no problem with use of live bait. Does it make it easier to catch bass? In most cases I believe so. But what is the harm in catching a lot of fish. The key thing that I think any fisherman needs to be aware of when practicing C&R (on any species) is to reduce the risk of deep hooking and killing fish. If done properly and you can accomplish a successful realease of the fish then no harm is done.

I think that many people have the impression that it is "cheating" simply because they have read and watched a lot of tournament fishing. It is cheating if you are competing against others and the guidelines state that you can not use live bait. But if done for one's own enjoyment it is not cheating.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Good point about deep hooking fish. I would suggest circle hooks when using live bait for bass.


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## toboso (Apr 14, 2004)

If you think that professional bass tournament fisherman would never use live bait (outside of tournaments), then you're missing out. Most tournaments have few restrictions on pre-tournament fishing techniques. Some bass anglers use bait either to find fish so they can catch them with artificials or they use it to chum an area to hold fish. Is that unethical? The rules don't prevent it. Besides, you still have to hope the weather does't trump your chum. If the shad move out, if the crayfish get scarce, etc. then you can bet you don't have enough minnows to keep 'em there.

After all, what is it about fishing that draws us back? It's about catching fish!

Now what compels us to fish tournaments? It's about showing our superior prowess in catching fish within the limits of the rules. If the rules allowed live bait, some anglers would use it and some would not. Just look at walleye/saugeye tournaments. Sometimes live bait is just not as efficient as artificial. What it comes down to is that the B.A.S.S. movement of the 1970's painted an illusion that good fisherman don't need or even use live bait, nets, and so on.

If bass fishermen (or any purist for that matter) are so ethical and knowledgeable, then they shouldn't use depthfinders, GPS, graphite rods, trollilng motors, rain gear, sun screen, bug repellant, or polarized sunglasses. In fact, maybe the catfish "noodlers"/"grabblers" are the epitome of a true fisherman  Can you say "Git 'R Dun!"?


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## Nickadams (May 1, 2004)

I think you have part of it right, but I think the point BASS made by not allowing live bait is that they want (in a tounrament setting) for the action of the bait to be produced by the fisherman not the bait. It goes along with not allowing trolling in a tournament. When you use live bait the bait produces it's own action and when you troll the angler has no contol except maybe for depth. 
I don't think there is anything wrong with using live bait for recreational fishing. You still have to do all the work finding the fish, which I have found to be the hardest part


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## lark101_1999 (Apr 12, 2004)

sold 7 doz 3 inch chubs last week just for bass fishing


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## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

The guy I saw was using minnows. 
I prefer lures because there is more of a challenge. I also like being able to put on the vest and go. I have used live bait on the rivers and ponds in WV. Through a mud eel out anywhere and everything from bluegills to sauger will take it. The trouble with mud eels is getting them. In the rivers of WV and VA put on a mad tom and the small mouths will hit it until there is just a peace of skin left. 
I will still stick with my lures though.


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

I have no problem w/ using live bait for bass. Circle hooks are an excellent preventative measure against gut hooking, as well as not letting a fish run w/ your bait for a long time before the hookset. As far as ethics go, I think fishing for bass on their beds is far more unethical than fishing bait. If BASS fisherman are so concerned about keeping it sporty, I fail to see how dropping a plastic worm on a fish defending its bed is anymore of a challenge.


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

Sorry... didn't see the previous thread on bed fishing. Didn't mean to reopen that can of worms, pardon the pun.


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## CarpFreak5328 (Aug 16, 2004)

When I go to farm ponds nothing outproduces live creek chubs anywhere from 3-10 inches.


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

IMO if you have to make the catching harder you need to move on to more challenging fish not methods. I care about catching fish not how I did it. I guess some guys get bored and invent ways to make catching a 12" bass interesting again. Same goes for trout fishing and fisherman. This is not to say that at times artificials or different techniques may be more or less efficient than natural bait. When the time arrives that I start creating ways to make the fishing "harder" I will fish for something else. Most record class trophies are caught on natural baits for a reason. I agree with Toboso about the bed rippers worrying about live bait being hypocritical. Same goes for the types that will kiss a 12" bass but will wantonly slaughter trophy specimens of "meat" species (sunfish, crappies, walleyes). Trophy fish of any species deserve extra respect and all species are equally valuable. Overall, my fishing interests have evolved as I have satisfied myself personal trophies or numbers with different species. Currently I am on a mad quest for a 2lb. sunfish and trust me I don't care how I catch it or what with.


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

There are some redears in Portage lakes (East Res) that may put you close to your 2# quest. Good luck.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Rooster,



Rooster said:


> Good point about deep hooking fish. I would suggest circle hooks when using live bait for bass.


With all due respect, there are places and times that circle hooks are appropriate for using live bait and other scenarios where they are not as proficient.

All fisherman that are practicing any level of C&R should always be concerned with fish mortality due to deeply swallowed hooks. The problem is that many are ready to cast stones without ever looking at themselves first. The Texas parks and wildlife performed a very detailed study of bass mortality based upon type of lure and lure presentation. The fisherman were from novice level up to and including professional bass fisherman. It was conducted on a 5-10 acre private lake and the mortality was measured for a long time after the actual fishing. To make a long story short. The most adverse technique for bass mortality was carolina rigging by almost a 3 to 1 margin over live shiner fishing.

Me and the people fishing with me catch 100, 200, 300, I don't know, smallmouth every year at Erie. I'm guessing that at least 1/2 are caught on live bait. Very few fish ever have the hook deep and I either partially or completely knock down the barb on most days depending on the mood of the smallies.

I guess the bottom line is fishing with live bait certainly doesn't make any one fisherman any less of a fisherman than an individual that chooses not to use live bait. Nor do I believe that just because fisherman chooses to use live bait that he is any more likely to injure fish than someone using only artificial lures.

Kim


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Rooster said:


> I think that it is cheating. No moral or ethical objections, I just think that it reveals a lack of skill.
> 
> Fortunately, I am so skilled at the art of bass fishing that I would never have to resort to live bait.



I don't see any smiley faces..... you were kidding, right?


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

Carl,

I know...I moved to the lakes in part for that...have had quite a few over a pound but the 2# barrier is tough! ....funny part is it took the wife a week after we moved to catch on to the let's live by the water scam  she actually thought i'd spend less time fishing b/c I wouldn't have to drive anywhere...lol...


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Send me those scam instructions.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Good point about mortality and lures. I did not intend to suggest that lures were safe and live bait was dangerous. Only that circle hooks would be the safest option if you choose to use live bait. It would also be a good idea to use circles with all soft plastics especially with a Carolina rig (however, I do not currently practice what I preach).

Andno, Im not kidding, Im really that skilled.


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## mrjbigfoot (Apr 19, 2005)

Hey guys,

I'll throw my 2 cents in on this one from a slightly different viewpoint but first I'll say that I'm about a 97% catch & release kind of guy unless I'm fishing for bait that I'm going to use to catch & release bigger fish...LOL!!! And, I'll add that there's a lot of great educational information that's been posted already about the best ways to practice C&R. 
Ok, here's my common sense on the use of live bait:
#1. It can be the most successful method at times.
#2. If we're talking younger less experienced fishermen or fisherwomen, it's important for them to experience success so they truly learn to love the
the sport. (I'd much rather have them learn to love fishing than some of their other options these days)
#3. Live crickets work very well for shallower hook-ups & success for kids.
#4. Fly fishing is a great way for younger anglers to experience a lot of fun with a very high rate of C&R success, even if their using a cane pole with a fly on the end of the line.

My son just about freaked out when he realized how many more fish he could catch using an artificial fly instead of a chunk of worm under a bobber. He just loved it when the bluegills would practically jump out of the water to get his fly as he dangled it over them.

Anyways, the guy that posted this thread, sounds like he may be a little bit newer to the sport & I just wanted to reassure him that he should fish the best way he can for now, to catch more fish, so he'll keep on fishing & becoming more experienced as he gets older. It's important to keep it fun!


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

The BEST thing (period) that anyone can do for the sport of fishing is to get kids involved. If there are future generations that love fishing, the fish will be safe. If it takes live bait to help get them into bass fishing, Ill spring for the shiners!



> Anyways, the guy that posted this thread, sounds like he may be a little bit newer to the sport & I just wanted to reassure him that he should fish the best way he can for now, to catch more fish, so he'll keep on fishing & becoming more experienced as he gets older. It's important to keep it fun!



Now,

That

Comment

About

Walter

..MADE MY DAY! LOL


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## mrjbigfoot (Apr 19, 2005)

Ok, I guess you've got me from a standpoint of knowing him. I visited his profile & saw he's a Funeral Director so, I'm guessing he's been around for a while... maybe a while longer than me...LOL! Walter, I didn't mean to infer that you're a rookie... Sorry & LOL!
PS - I hope he's got a sense of humor...


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> I hope he's got a sense of humor


 in his line of work,i think it could come in pretty handy at times


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## mrjbigfoot (Apr 19, 2005)

I guess I should've visited his profile before I baited myself with my own foot...LOL!


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

lol.we all eat a little filet of "sole" on occasion


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## mrjbigfoot (Apr 19, 2005)

Very eloquently and/or colorfully stated misfit! Thanks!


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## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

heheheheheh. I like this. I did not get my sense of humor from my job but from my feet. I also have a large feet, size 15, Mrjbigfoot. I had big feet before I was a teenager and the jokes started then. Funny thing is that they have not stopped. My brother says that I do not need a boat just oars  
I have been at it a little while though. Broke my dads trout rod when i was just four. Had to show my cousin how far it would bend. This was dads face


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## mrjbigfoot (Apr 19, 2005)

Thanks Walter, I feel better now and I know where your coming from on the broken rod...LOL!  Heck, I think I broke one in a store one time when I was younger, doing pretty much the same thing...LOL! I'm also a size 15 & the name has been stuck on my butt for a long time, especially amongst my friends. It all started because there were 6 guys named Mike, in my immediate neighborhood, so nicknames were generally the rule if you were named Mike....LOL!


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## fishingredhawk (Apr 14, 2004)

I have no problem with using live baits. Sometimes it is a nice change up. More laid back and relaxing, and sometimes it works when artificials won't.


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## Basskisser1 (May 15, 2004)

We use live bait on The Darby. Soft craws, minnows, hellgies, chubs, shiners. It's amazing the size and kind of fish you can catch. I don't think it's cheating. Usually, we only use live bait in a creek. Lakes and ponds are all artificial lures and baits. Then there's Lake Erie's bass and we use both live bait and lures.


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## gonefishin' (Apr 14, 2004)

Very interesting. I guess I'm one of those guys who will do whatever it takes to catch fish. I don't like to limit myself at all. Some people should listen to themselves. PooPooing live bait by calling it cheating or unethical makes you guys sound like elitists. A little silly too! It's just another tactic, that's all. If you really want to nail some smallies try a small (1 to 2 inch) craw under a bobber or on the bottom. They go nuts for this and I use this method in the summer when I seine for the critters from the same water I catch the Bass from. If you don't use any live bait, then you are missing out on a huge part of fishing and I don't feel a bit sorry for you  :G :F


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## CarpFreak5328 (Aug 16, 2004)

Word, Any way to catch as many fish as possible thats the name of the game.


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## WINNER (Apr 7, 2004)

Call me an elitist!

I have very little respect for fisherpeople who use live bait for bass. It might be because I associate live baiters with people who keep everything they catch. I don't like those people either. It is a stereotype I've had as long as I've fished.

Worms, helgies, minnows, frogs, crickets are natural foods for bass. Now how much skill does it take to get a bass to eat something it already eats?  

That being said, It is your right to use live bait and keep the fish you catch. 

Off my (BMW)soapbox! 

Winner


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

How many people use artificial lures in search of catfish? My guess is none or next to it. I think a lot of people have been exposed to bass fishing from the tournament style people and there is nothing wrong with that. But targeting bass by the same method as one would use for catfish should not be considered wrong. Not everyone has to do it that way but they can accept that some do. I don't use a fly rod as some purists desire but that is my decision and my right.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

I still think that it is cheating! Catching bass with artificial lures is almost too easy; there would be absolutely NO sport in it for ME (using live bait for bass). However, I have no moral objections to the practice. But, I might laugh at you on the lake  

CatfishingI wish that I could catch them with artificial lures. However, it is just too difficult. Catfish feed much differently than bass. Bass are far more sight oriented feeders, and catfish are more olfactory oriented. It is much more difficult to mimic smells than visual cues. Further, catching them on live bait is difficult enough.

AND, Im no Elitist. Im an Egoist!

Question for the live bait bass fishermen: Would there be just as much pride/satisfaction for you in catching an 8LB Ohio largemouth on a shiner as opposed to say a crankbait?


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## CarpFreak5328 (Aug 16, 2004)

Nope, A 8 pound bass is a 8 pound bass. Im a recreational fisherman no tournments for expect a few carp/catfish tournments. When I go fishing I want to have alot of fun and the more fish you catch the better it is. Now if your a tournment fisherman you shouldnt even bother with live bait. That and some people dont have alot of time to fish so when they go im pretty sure they would want to catch the most possible no matter what there using. But I can see it from your viewpoint. I normally use artifical bait for bluegill and crappie because it gets boring catching so many little ones and bigger artificals normally thin out the smaller catches. With that said I cant get bored of a 3-4 pond bass smacking my creekchub swimming on the surface.


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

Congratulations, I have read some of the most ridiculous statements about fishing I have ever seen all crammed into this thread.

I will always fish for bass (when I do fish for bass) with whatever it takes to catch some, be it crankbaits, tubes, plastics or crawdads, shiners, crawlers etc. When I go fishing I go fishing to relax and have fun with friends, not to pump up my self esteem by fooling a critter with a brain the size of a pea into eating a piece of plastic that looks very much like live bait. By the way, I haven't eaten a bass (LM or SM) in at least 5 years and I don't remember having ever killed one I did not mean to keep.

The satisfaction I felt when I caught a 9.5 lb bass in Fla on live bait was pretty much the same as when I caught an 8 on a jig flippin in the weeds. I was fired up to have the opportunity to tangle with those sows.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Im obviously of a completely different opinion. If I ever caught a BIG bass using live bait (while targeting other species), I would have no sense of pride/satisfaction in the catch. I guess that part of the enjoyment of bass fishing for me is the challenge in fooling the fish with artificial stimuli (yes, I am aware that they are ignorant creatures). I dont believe that it is a matter of pumping up my self esteem, as fishing has very little to do with my perceived self worth, and bass fishing in particular isnt exactly rocket science. By the way, I have never fished a tournament, and my views are not formed by any tournament rules.

So, if your primary goal is to catch fish (by any mean possible), why would you ever even consider using artificial lures?


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

> So, if your primary goal is to catch fish (by any mean possible), why would you ever even consider using artificial lures?


Well I don't often travel with a minnow bucket full of shiners, a tub of craws, some nightcrawlers and a few hellgramites. Its kinda hard to have it all.

Plus there are plenty of times I have caught bass on artificials when they wouldn't touch whatever live bait is there. You know, reaction strikes.



> CatfishingI wish that I could catch them with artificial lures. However, it is just too difficult.


Classic...I thought you enjoyed the challenge? I have caught plenty of channels on spinners, cranks and even topwater baits.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

I too have caught plenty of catfish (channels and flatheads, but never blues) on artificial lures, but I would be hard pressed to consistently catch either with only artificial lures. I did investigate the idea of using only lures early on in my quest for catfish. However, I found that because of their feeding habits (specifically their heavy reliance on olfactory signals), it would not be practical to target them with lures. Yes, It may be more of a challenge, but the low strike frequency (of the larger catfish) make the prospects less than attractive. I guess that is why the catfishing professionals use live/cut bait. I think that the professional bass anglers use artificial lures? LOL


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## Fishin' Coach (May 19, 2004)

I have caught smallmouth... 
on a streamer on a 6wt fly rod,
on 4 lb test with a live hellgrammite
and on a tube with 30# powerpro.

All were fun, all were rewarding. and I'll probably do all again. 
Heck... I may tip my fly pole with a live maggot! Perish the thought.

I hate elitist attitudes.
You see it steelhead fishing all the time
Fly fishermen look down on spin fisherman, spin fisherman look down bait fisherman, etc

Life is too short to worry about what everyone else calls sporting...
Enjoy the outdoors...
Fish the way your comfortable with..
and have fun

--coach

P.S. a little note for the "pure" bass enthusiasts...
Two years ago I took a charter on lake Okeechobee 
with Scott Martin, Roland Martin's Son. It was cold dreary and overcast and even Scott had a pole in hand with a large shiner and a bobber!


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

Fishing coach...right on! I have recently converted to flyfishing for bass since it was sooo easy to catch them either spinning or baitcasting. It was like cheating! I have no objections to anyone using those methods, its their right. But don't mind me if ya catch me laughing at Rooster or Winner because they don't have the skills to catch em on a fly.


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

> I hate elitist attitudes.


Not as much as I hate clichés and other vast generalizations. But you are right, anyone that does not share your opinion...must be an elitist.

Just keep dunking those worms for bass...and I will just keep laughing! See, we can both ENJOY the outdoods in our own way!

Laugh away BioDude.


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## Fishin' Coach (May 19, 2004)

Sorry If I hit a nerve...
Never did I call you or anyone on here an elitist. I respect your views even if they differ from my own. 

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism n. 
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources. 

The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class. 
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class. 

I have no grudge against you, or against your views. That is exactly what I'm not about.

To each his own... I have *never* said someone has less talent for fishing, because they can't cast a fly pole.

I simply do not like the idea that some put others down because there method is different from your own.

I'm not just siteing the live bait v/s artificial debate. It happens through out many outdoor pursuits. I've already given the steelhead example. There are many others. Hunters who disagree with trapping, bow hunters who look down at gun hunters, Lake walleye fishermen who keep females in August who look down at river fishermen who keep them in April, cat fishermen v/s walleye fishermen v/s bass fishermen, Traditional fly fisherman (who only use dry flies only) v/s fly fisherman who use chuck and duck methods v/s artificial only anglers v/s bait fishermen.

Opinions are wonderful. Difference of opinions it what makes this country great. 

I'm the first one to say to each his own.

Just because our views are different doesn't make me right and you wrong, or vise versa.

I choose to fly fish because I enjoy the challenge of it. Not because it's hard to do, Heck, I'll admit I suck at it.  

You stated that you choose to use artificials for the challenge. Good for you.


An elitist attitude is not when you stand up for your opinion,
An elitist attitude is when you put down others for having an opinion different that yours.

Again, enjoy the outdoors however you may choose to spend it!
--Coach


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

Rooster said:


> I guess that is why the catfishing professionals use live/cut bait. I think that the professional bass anglers use artificial lures? LOL


Pro bass fisherman use artificials because the tour demands it. Pay any of those pros to go on a charter trip in bad weather and I bet most will use shiners or other live bait to get fish. Now if I could limit myself to only fishing on days where conditions are very much in my favor then I would probably use artificials only also. I go fishing whenever I get a chance (as long as it is safe). If that means I need to use a nightcrawler or crawfish to get a bite then you're damn right I am gonna use em. 

Long story short though is that I target bluegills, catfish, walleye and crappie 90% of my trips. Thats a lot of grubs, shad, leeches and minnows every year.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> Question for the live bait bass fishermen: Would there be just as much pride/satisfaction for you in catching an 8LB Ohio largemouth on a shiner as opposed to say a crankbait?


Absolutely!
Same with crappie, walleye, blugills redears and cats.

I'm out to enjoy myself, not prove anything to anyone including myself.


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