# Helping with my Dad's pond



## [email protected]

At the least, clay should be compacted completely around the overflow pipe. It's pretty tough to get a good compaction job under a pipe. Some people use a collar, basically a flat flange larger than the pipe and compact around that as well as the pipe to make a better seal. The problem is likely to get worse as the fill erodes, if it fails it will fail at the worste possible time.

I've posted before about hybrid bluegill before not being a good forage choice. Standard bluegill are generally the backbone of a bass pond. Removing the hybrids and restocking with bluegill at greater than 1/3 the length of the bass should help to rebuild the forage. In your case, it sounds like 8" bluegill for stock is the magic number since you have a population of this size surviving. Remove as many bass and catfish as you possibly can. Bass populations can rebound very quickly, so don't be afraid that you're taking too many. The underweight bass in there now have already lost growth potential and although they can regain weight, they'll never grow as big as they could have if they spent their life in a well balanced pond. $1 or $2 worth of good quality pellets per day can work wonders too. 

I'm interested in the second pond. Is there anyway it could be drained and used to grow forage for the main pond?

As weeds become an issue, use only products labeled for aquatic use and follow the instructions exactly. In the past, I've heard of and witnessed the effects of many pond owners trying to save a couple of bucks by using herbicides not labeled for aquatic use (most recently Karmex comes to mind) that indeed work, sometimes so well that they result in DO drops and fish kills as well as long term detrimental effects to the ecosystem and ultimately fish growth suffers.

Aeration is well worth considering too as it will improve overall water quality and increase the pond's ability to support more life.

The other key component is structure/cover. 15% of the pond should have cover for forage to hide and bass ambush sites. Structures using discarded PVC, pallets, rock and brush piles are most common and often free.


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## [email protected]

Wipers aren't great bluegill predators and if you're trying to improve the bass, adding another predator is going to make things worse. If your bass are skinny, either your standard bluegill numbers are already too low or you simply have too many bass or both. Remove hybrid bluegill, restock with adult standard bluegill, heavily cull bass, and remove channel cats. In your situation, adding fatheads would likely be a waste of money. Shiners would probably be a better choice if appropriate spawning substrate (submerged grass) is available or artificial spawning mats (like Spawntex) are installed.

If wipers are desired as a priority, you could probably get away with leaving things the way they are, add hybrid stripers and begin a pellet feeding program. I'd expect the existing bluegills to improve, the hybrid stripers to do fine and the bass to improve just slightly.


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## [email protected]

I think fatheads would be a waste of money because you have a lot of hungry mouths in the pond and I don't think they'd survive long enough to reproduce. 8-10 lbs of minnows will grow 1lb of bass and minnows are fairly expensive. I had millions of fatheads in my pond initially as they were stocked 9 months before other fish were added. They were gone 2 years after bass and hybrid bluegill were added even though there were 5 or 6 stacks of pallets and other structure in place. Hybrid bluegill will prey heavily on them as well as the bass. Chasing down a 2" minnow is almost more work than it's worth for a bass. A 6" shiner or bluegill is a much more suitable meal for a decent sized bass. You could try the shiners and see if they reproduce successfully before adding the mats. Keep in mind you don't _need_ shiners or minnows. Bass will grow very well on bluegills. Probably more importantly, keep in mind that a pond can only support so many fish. Too many things contribute to a ponds ability to produce to theorize on completely but as a rule of thumb, an average unfed pond can support 100lbs of bass per acre. If the pond is 3/4 of an acre, thats 75lbs of bass so if you want to be catching fish averaging 3lbs you'll be able to support 25 fish in such a pond. Other predator fish and hybrid bluegill being present will reduce the pounds of bass that can be produced.


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## [email protected]

It looks like a very nice pond. I don't think the amount of cattails shown would hurt anything. I let a small patch grow myself. Willow take up a lot of water but I bet the fish appreciate the cover and shade. Trees growing in the dam or core trench can cause leaks. Cutrine plus would knock out that algae in a day or two. The clarity is too high IMO. Usually, ideally in a pond like this, you want to be able to see about 16" and the water should have a pea green color. Clear water usually means low fertility which means low production. It's hard to say exactly what's making your water so clear. It could be vegetation, watershed, may just be temporary due to weather..lots of reasons possible. Your soil and water could probably help determine why for free. I'd be interested in how things look a month and a half after a treatment of cutrine. It would kill the algae and release some nutrients back into the water but will kill planktonic algae too which causes the green color but the planktonic algae usually bounces back a month or two after application. The planktonic algae is the base of the food chain and you'll need a good bloom for the pond to produce more pounds of fish on it's own. Basically with low fertility you can still grow some nice fish, just not very many. Some of the very clear lakes in Canada can only support 8lbs of fish per acre, just not enough food is produced naturally to grow more. For comparison some very fertile waters can grow over 1000lbs per acre. It's a bit of a balancing act because overly fertile water can have some very serious issues. In addition to removing bass, hybrid gills and catfish, getting the water right should be at the top of the priority list before stocking more fish. I wouldn't add any fish until fertility increases or a significant number of the existing fish are removed or you start a pellet feeding program. Would you happen to have any pictures of the hybrid bluegill? The standard you have pictured looks pretty thin. The thin bluegill may be the results of the food chain problems I was talking about. 

You may be surprised how quickly a pond can turn around with good management.


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## auglaizewader

I have heard people using bentonite clay to help slow leaks in ponds. It can be poured in slowly where the leak is, and the flow will carry some clay into the cavity. It should swell and slowly slow down the leak. My Dad did this with pretty decent results. He also used the clay under and around the overflow pipe. I am not an expert, just sharing an idea.


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## hang_loose

montagc, You're right....Divorce sucks and its very uncomfortable for friends (besides the pain your going through). Good luck with the pond your working with. Maybe your dad can get some new property and turn you loose to design and stock your own pond......Again Good Luck to you!!!


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## keith_r

if running it in the winter, the diffuser should be in shallow water, used to keep some part of the pond's surface from freezing,, having the diffuser in deeper water can cause the water to super cool, which will stress the fish..
also, if your pond freezes, and you don't have an aerator, at least scrape some snow off the ice so that sunlight can penetrate


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## [email protected]

Running your aeration system in the winter can potentially prevent a winter fish kill. Keeping your pond clear of ice cover will allow enough light to penetration for photosythesis to occur, thus producing oxygen. If the pond is left for ice to thicken, oxygen levels will decrease quickly in smaller, more shallow ponds and void the oxygen necessary for fish to survive.


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## [email protected]

@Montag
Do you have our catalog? We have fish attractors that are snag-proof and made out of pvc (last longer than vegetation). If you would like a copy of our 2013 catalog, send me a PM with your address and we can get one to ya!


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## hang_loose

Sounds like a few nice fish frys coming up.


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## hang_loose

Nice pics of those "Dorys" though


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