# How to keep water running to barn from freezing



## mashunter18 (Jun 23, 2005)

When I built my pole barn three years ago I ran a water line out to it. It's a good 3 to 4 feet deep well below the frost line. What I should've done was run the line up through the concrete inside my building but I didn't it just comes up the back of my building and then enters it. I put a yard hydrant 2 foot from the building thinking I could just shut the water off at the house and the hydrant would drain it out of that part that goes above the ground into my pole barn well that didn't work.

I dug down last summer and wrapped The waterline with Frost King water pipe cable. The waterline is the three-quarter inch black stuff so after I wrap the waterline I put it inside of 2 1/2 inch pipe so it was all wrapped up from 4 foot below ground to where it went into my garage. It worked sometimes last year but sometimes the water was still froze. 

I might need to just leave the tape on again this year and try to leave my water trickling inside the garage.
I'm not worried about it freezing in my pole barn everything is insulated including the ceiling. My water pipes are installed on the inside of my building so they definitely won't freeze inside. 

I have a 16 x 10 deer cleaning room/fish cleaning room with with a commercial stainless sink and a handwashing sink I also have a Spicket to fill up my carpet cleaning truck. 

I'm going to put a lien two on eventually which will solve the problem with the water goes in on the backside of the garage but I still think I'll have problems from below the slab to 3 foot below the ground where the line will have a potential to freeze.
Any ideas? I was looking at the roofing ice damn tape but it's only sold in hundred foot plus increments.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

Strange, I've buried 3-inch PVC pipe to take downspout water away from the house - it's only about 6 - 8 inches down but I haven't had any problems with it freezing ... yet.

If it ever does, the worst that would happen is water pooling around the house like it used to do when there were only splash blocks. Now the water drains to a rain garden basin about 20 feet away from the house.


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## erie mako (Jan 22, 2013)

You say that you shut off the water going to the hydrant, at the house...
Do you shut off the hydrant end also?

If you leave the hydrant "on", it will retain water above ground...they usually don't drain unless you flip the handle down to the "off" position.

Do you have a good gravel drain bed below the frost line at the hydrant base?


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## Doboy (Oct 13, 2008)

What Erie mako said?
Do you intend to use the water all winter? 
I'm interested in your remedy.


*FYI,,, I don't want anyone else to make this mistake!*
If outside water is NOT NEEDED,,, here's what I have to do;
I have two outside hydrants at my house, plus an unheated garage, sink. My daughter has 3 outside hydrants, & one of those is leaking to the surface right now. (underground coupling is BROKE?) Most likely froze last winter.
*NONE of the hydrants were installed deep enough*,,,,, 
SO I have to shut off the house-to-outside zone valve, then use an air compressor to blow the water out of all of the lines (down hill) & then add camper antifreeze to every hydrant! I will NOT turn outside water back on till MAY!
FINALLY,,, no more freeze-up!
No outside water, all winter,,,,, but way less work than re-setting 5 hydrants DEEPER!


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## mashunter18 (Jun 23, 2005)

Actually Erie mako my nephew did open the hydrant but left it open. 

I turn the shut off valve at the house off then right where the water enters the garage I turn that shut off off. Then the idea was to turn the hydrant on let it run till no more water came out then put the lever back in the down position but I did forget to mention my nephew left it in the up (open) position. The whole thing froze and I had to replace it this year.

Here's a couple pictures of inside the garage and outside the garage don't mind all the silicone on the PVC the waterline is inside that 3 inch PVC.

This is where it's freezing on me the upper part here into the garage.



View attachment 245416


View attachment 245417



Do boy mine is a 6 foot hydrant. If your daughters is the same as mine you should be able to use a couple pipe wrenches and unhook the handle then lift the whole thing out and put a new unit down in mine was tough but we got it broke free.

I really want to leave the water on all winter and not turn it off I need to use the water to fill up my carpet cleaning van sometimes I can get around that if I have to. But if it's below freezing out and someone gets a deer it's nice to use the room to cut and process it and be able to wash the dishes cutting boards etc.. also at the end of the year several of us through a meet together to make snack sticks and summer sausage and the same thing washing the stuff for grinder dishes etc. it's really nice when the water is working out here.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

My neighbor had a similar setup and his kept freezing up in about the same area as what it sounds as yours does. 
He heavily insulated his pipe. Then boxed it in with wood. The box stuck out enough for him to open the front panel of the box(front panel was put on hinges) and put a drop light(garage trouble light) inside at the bottom and close the panel. He leaves the light in there year round and just plugs it in in the winter. He made L brackets and attached the sides of the box to the barn wall and caulked all the seams. 
Don't recall him having anymore issues since and that's been 5-6yrs ago. But I know if it's going to drop really cold for an extended period of time, he still lets the water drip inside the barn.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Similar to fastwater's post.....
I used to do steel work and in one of our shops we had an 8" main coming out of the floor into an unheated section of the shop to supply a sprinkler system. We built a little room around that pipe and insulated it and put a 36" electric heater in it with a thermostat. We were in that shop for 25 years and that pipe never did freeze.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

I'd make a box and put a 100 watt bulb in it.


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## bulafisherman (Apr 11, 2004)

fastwater said:


> My neighbor had a similar setup and his kept freezing up in about the same area as what it sounds as yours does.
> He heavily insulated his pipe. Then boxed it in with wood. The box stuck out enough for him to open the front panel of the box(front panel was put on hinges) and put a drop light(garage trouble light) inside at the bottom and close the panel. He leaves the light in there year round and just plugs it in in the winter. He made L brackets and attached the sides of the box to the barn wall and caulked all the seams.
> Don't recall him having anymore issues since and that's been 5-6yrs ago. But I know if it's going to drop really cold for an extended period of time, he still lets the water drip inside the barn.


I built a box around mine and put a heat lamp shroud at the base with a regular bulb, keeps it from freezing 90 pecent of the time.


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## mashunter18 (Jun 23, 2005)

All right some good ideas here sounds like build some type of box and lightbulb or heater is the way to go.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

FOSR said:


> Strange, I've buried 3-inch PVC pipe to take downspout water away from the house - it's only about 6 - 8 inches down but I haven't had any problems with it freezing ... yet.
> 
> If it ever does, the worst that would happen is water pooling around the house like it used to do when there were only splash blocks. Now the water drains to a rain garden basin about 20 feet away from the house.
> 
> View attachment 245387


FOSR, downspout drains are completely different from waterlines. Downspout drains have water in them when it rains, but they dry mostly before a freeze up. Waterlines always are full of water. Get a little freeze up and expansion of ice in a waterline and you got problems. Only took 1 night of 20 degree weather to burst my waterline that was run under the deck. Only 10' of pipe exposed from the house.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

Waterlines under streets are typically put at least 5' below ground to prevent freezing. Deeper than what you would do for a foundation. Lines that are not used daily are especially easy to freeze up. Just like ice on a lake compared to a river. 

I like the idea of boxing in the riser next to the barn. This at least reduces the wind chill effect on the line. I would completely drain the line when not in use. I know it's a pain to turn it on inside the house and then go out to the garage though. An insulating wrap or a light bulb might work for the riser at least. Keeping it dripping is a good idea too. I think you might still have problems if there is a deep freeze though.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

I did get some problems with freezing because the rain basin will freeze in cold weather, and the drain pipes have nowhere to discharge. This can come up when a hard cold spell is followed by a sudden round of warm rain, maybe also with snowmelt from the roof. Basically everything above ground thaws and everything at or below ground level is still frozen. But that's infrequent and it hasn't been much of a problem.

As far as I know, all of the buried PVC is still intact.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

OP, I don't understand where it's freezing. The hydrant pictured should have a foot valve that drains when the handle is all the way down. You need to unhook the hose for it to all drain out, but that hydrant shouldn't freeze.


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## mashunter18 (Jun 23, 2005)

I fish The garden hose is just on there right now because it's summertime. If you look at my pictures I know I loaded them too small you can see the water hydrant and behind the water hydrant there is a black PVC pipe that goes into the garage my waterline is inside that black PVC pipe. The waterline goes around 4 foot underground and runs back to my house in my basement. My freeze problem is happening between the 4 foot underground and where it goes into the garage. I'm hoping with the waterline wrapped with heat tape and I close the shutoff in the garage then turn the shut off off at the house if I let the hydrant drain out it will drain the water out between where it goes in the garage down to the 4 foot underground and it won't freeze. I think I am going to dig it out and put an insulated box around it, Seal it up real good and hopefully it will work this winter. Hopefully that makes sense to you now


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

erie mako said:


> Do you have a good gravel drain bed below the frost line at the hydrant base?


This is a very important step previously posted by Erie mako for your hydrant so that when you drain the water from your hydrant that the drained water can leach away and not lay around your piping and freeze.
But note that you DO NOT want any of the black plastic flex water line laying against the gravel because over the years of freeze/thaw and ground shifting, a hole will be rubbed in that flex line. If I had to gravel underneath any of the black flex line I would run that section of the line through a section of sleeve. Maybe a sleeve of rigid PVC or at least a section of the next bigger size of the black flex pipe. Something to keep the flex water line from laying on the gravel.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Does the shut off in the basement have a drain on it? If not I would replace it with one that does.


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## krm (Jul 28, 2007)

Can't see the pics, bit is the heat tape run on the pipe, or wrapped around it? If wrapped around it, that's the first problem. If the heat tape is installed correctly (bottom edge in contact, not wrapped), and covered with insulation (also necessary for it to work correctly), you shouldn't be having issues. If you don't use insulation over the heat tape, it's worthless.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

I can't see the pics anymore either.


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