# deer numbers have to be down below what the state claims



## Double J

Hope ohio wakes up and realizes there is not the deer in our state they claim,license/tag sales and the revenue it brings in must be nice but the herd is way down imo.Im not sure we should be shooting 5 or 6 deer per year.hope they make adjustments before its too late.


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## Catproinnovations

i dont think thats the case. Ive seen just as many deer if not more. I just dont think we had the rut like we usually do because it was so warm and they just werent moving that much for people to see out in the fields in the woods or dead on the side of the road.


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## Bad Bub

Catproinnovations said:


> i dont think thats the case. Ive seen just as many deer if not more. I just dont think we had the rut like we usually do because it was so warm and they just werent moving that much for people to see out in the fields in the woods or dead on the side of the road.


You must hunt the same farm as me! I feel exactly the same way. I'm still seeing lots of deer, but they just wouldn't respond to anything. And there's lots of food still out there to keep them spread out.

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## Eric E

Catproinnovations said:


> i dont think thats the case. Ive seen just as many deer if not more. I just dont think we had the rut like we usually do because it was so warm and they just werent moving that much for people to see out in the fields in the woods or dead on the side of the road.


I have one spot that has the same amount of deer. My other two are Way down.. Yesterday I would have heard 50+ shots in the distance. I heard 7.. Two other buddies hunted didn't see a deer. These are not farmland deer, so the food sources stay the same. More hunters and tags sold,and a lot less dead deer.. The state will just blame it on something...


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## GOLDFISH

I agree I think the numbers are down , Not that the population is hurting 

But I have seen less deer this year than ever. 

For Hunters the bad thing is Nusanice Permits I know of two farms over the last five years that have had alot deer shot I know we need control from ruining crop but I think some people better realize the damage racoons do as well


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## Bad Bub

Eric E said:


> I have one spot that has the same amount of deer. My other two are Way down.. Yesterday I would have heard 50+ shots in the distance. I heard 7.. Two other buddies hunted didn't see a deer. These are not farmland deer, so the food sources stay the same. More hunters and tags sold,and a lot less dead deer.. The state will just blame it on something...


Actually we usually have a decent snow fall and frozen ground by now that takes alot of natural feeding opportunities away from them, thus concentrating them more. Not saying your numbers aren't down just saying there sometimes is more than just numbers to blame. And it actually sounds like the deer are really spotty this year. Some places are up, and some people are saying they haven't seen any deer..... but your definitely right about the state making something up.....

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## killingtime

i hunt my 30 acres plus the 250 acres that borders me and our heard is defenitely down. we had a nice batch of bucks but the does are way down. its not the weather or anything they are just not here like they used to be. we have trail cameras set up all the time at scrapes and bait piles and they are just not showing up like they used to. some areas do still have high deer numbers but some areas have been hit hard in zone c the last 5-6 years and should defenitely not have a 6 deer limit. this is just what i am seeing here where i hunt in perry county not speeking for other people.


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## billk

Numbers are way down on the public land we hunt. Hunted with the gun 6 days this season in Belmont Co.

Saw 4 opening day, 2 on Tuesday, and 4 the last two weekends. Also saw less than half the hunters we usually do. Adjacent private property was also very quiet gunshot-wise.

Just a few years ago I'd see that in the first hour opening morning.

Zone C needs to go back to three deer for a few years.


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## ezbite

I can guarantee you that the numbers are down in Trumbull county. So far this season I've hunted shenago, mosquito and the grand river public hunting and I'm not only not seeing the amount of deer from years past, I'm not seeing much sign either. I hunted some private property that I sat in for 3 days before seeing a few doe. I also have several friends telling me there not seeing many deer either. Numbers are down for sure.


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## Eric E

The one place we hunt in zone c, Washington county, we are still seeing deer, hardly any does. We saw 13 different bucks in seven days of hunting. Only four does, one of which got killed during youth season.


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## big red

the problem i'm having not seeing deer is there is 250 acres of standing corn.there is 4 of us that are hunting in 3 differant woods that borders the corn.1 person has killed a buck that was a small 8 old deer.alot of fresh tracks everyday and they lead straight to the standing corn.moved the game camera next to it and it shows deer coming from about 6pm and going back around 5am.all this rain is not helping much either.hope to see snow on the ground for ml season.talked to some of the locals and they all said they didn't se the amount of deer this year that they have in the past and they didn't have any crops standing during gun season.


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## crappiewacka

billk said:


> Numbers are way down on the public land we hunt. Hunted with the gun 6 days this season in Belmont Co.
> 
> Saw 4 opening day, 2 on Tuesday, and 4 the last two weekends. Also saw less than half the hunters we usually do. Adjacent private property was also very quiet gunshot-wise.
> 
> Just a few years ago I'd see that in the first hour opening morning.
> 
> Zone C needs to go back to three deer for a few years.


We hunted Egypt Valley and seen less than half that we usually do! On the drive to different areas the amount of dead deer near vehicles were slim. The amish were there, but they too were not seeing many. We hunted during both gun seasons (regular and weekend) and out of 7 of us 3 deer killed, and they were few and far between, with like only one opportunity to bag one. So if you pass on a small buck or doe you were done! Usually an opportunity was at least once a day.
It was eerily quiet!
Back to 3 deer would be good!
Most people we talked to were disgusted with the amount seen.


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## Red1

This past weekend I asked some guys I hunted with here in Tuscarawas County if they've been seeing the same number of deer this year as they have in the past. Every one of them said the same thing: not even close. The numbers are drastically down.


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## wave warrior

Red1 said:


> This past weekend I asked some guys I hunted with here in Tuscarawas County if they've been seeing the same number of deer this year as they have in the past. Every one of them said the same thing: not even close. The numbers are drastically down.


i aslo hunt here in t-county and sat-sun i seen 0 deer while on stand, a spot i normally see several. not sure why, but i did see a yote about 70yrds out(no shot opportunity) did here some shots from joining property but 4 of us only got 2 deer all weekend!!


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## rutnut245

I'm sure there are some areas of the state where the numbers are still pretty good but in our area of N.W.Ohio the numbers are down big time.I moved into my current house 16 years ago,one reason being I've been a bow hunter my whole life and everyone in my area knew where the high concentration of deer was,right out my door.

When I first moved here you could ride around the block,which goes around a huge parcel of hard woods with crops along the road,and litteraly see 75-100 deer.People from town would come out to watch them all the time.Your lucky to see 3 or 4 anymore and I haven't seen any in about a week.Gun week used to have them running all over.

I feed them in my backyard and hunt them behind a neighbors farm down the road,I have cameras at both spots and the only pictures I get where I hunt were all yotes.I hunted there Sunday and didn't even see a deer track,just yotes and lots of them.

We also hunt Killdeer Plains every year and used to do very well there.I hunted there 4 days this year and only saw deer once.We were there saturday and between 5 of us we saw no deer but we all saw yotes.
It certainly ain't like it used to be but it may be specific areas more than others.I blame the yotes,I'm also a trapper and when I was young we never caught them,I never caught them till about 20 years ago.Now they are everywhere and I see them at all hours of the day.

In my area,hunting pressure is actually less than it used to be.The crops and woods are pretty much the same as they have been for the last 55 years that I've been around.The ONLY thing that has changed is the number of coyotes.I've trapped 2 and shot 3 in the last 5 days and I only have 2 snares set.Two of the yotes had mange,a sure sign of over population imho.


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## Double J

we'll thanks for the comments and there you have it.Polling hunters who actually are in the woods speaks for itself.I wish the odnr would listen to us and better limit how many does we can shoot by putting it back to 2 or 3 per hunter! i hunt coshocton and the quality of the hunting on my semi private land stinks this year! If anyone from odnr is reading, feel free to comment.


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## bobk

The flip side is we as hunters really don't need to kill 6 deer a year do we? I can't remember the last time I filled my limit of deer. We can kill 12 at our place and I never do or even come close. I just don't get a kick out of telling everyone I tagged out. I kill what I know I will eat. How many guys still have deer meat from last year?


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## billk

crappiewacka said:


> ...The amish were there, but they too were not seeing many...Most people we talked to were disgusted with the amount seen.


There you have it. If the Amish aren't seeing many they just aren't there. The way they organize in huge groups and drive the hillsides really gets them up and moving.

same sentiment from everyone we spoke to. I know we saw way less hunters as well.


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## Bad Bub

Double J said:


> we'll thanks for the comments and there you have it.Polling hunters who actually are in the woods speaks for itself.I wish the odnr would listen to us and better limit how many does we can shoot by putting it back to 2 or 3 per hunter! i hunt coshocton and the quality of the hunting on my semi private land stinks this year! If anyone from odnr is reading, feel free to comment.


The problem there is the ODNR wants to reduce the herd. That's been the goal for the last 10+ years.... all were telling them is their plan is working....

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## Mushijobah

bobk said:


> The flip side is we as hunters really don't need to kill 6 deer a year do we? I can't remember the last time I filled my limit of deer. We can kill 12 at our place and I never do or even come close. I just don't get a kick out of telling everyone I tagged out. I kill what I know I will eat. How many guys still have deer meat from last year?


+1000!!

Killing that many every year in the areas we hunt is not sustainable.


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## bkr43050

I would be interested in seeing any statistics that show how many deer are taken on 4th,5th, or 6th tags. I used to think that limit made no difference because so few would utilize it but given the lower deer numbers that we have seen in the last 3 years since the change I am wondering if I underestimated that.


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## floater99

I agree,we hunt in morgan cty and the numbers of deer are not there to support a 6 deer harvest.Stop selling tag$$ and back to conservation.


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## Double J

remember back when a second deer tag was awesome! heck... doe could only be shot opening day.theyve gone compeltely the other way.I enjoy seeing deer during my hunts even if its not a deer i'm after.what do you do with 6 deer in the freezer??

This thread has probably run its course but i appreciate the input and not surprised by the responses.

Jeff


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## OSU Outdoorsman

Bad Bub said:


> The problem there is the ODNR wants to reduce the herd. That's been the goal for the last 10+ years.... all were telling them is their plan is working....
> 
> 
> You are spot on.....We were checked by the game wardens this past weekend and one of them informed one of our groups that they were wanting to decrease the herd back to 1985 ish size. You look at the numbers and there were only 64,000 deer harvested in 1985. I sure hope that is not the case. IMO deer hunting has to be a major source of revenue not only for the state but for many businesses in Ohio. Everything from butchers to gun stores i'm sure count on Ohio deer season for part of their yearly earnings. We as hunters invest a lot of money and time into the sport and i would hate to see the quality of deer hunting in the state suffer as well.


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## lomssl

:! I agree with Double J


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## crittergitter

It's easy to say don't harvest the limit. However, I am only 1 of 425,000 hunters. Everyone else will drive em and continue to whack em. I have not harvested more than 1 deer for several years. I hunt public and private land. My observations would clearly indicate that the numbers are down. I don't expect deer hunting to be easy, but it would be nice if it was enjoyable. I don't mind not seeing deer a couple times out, but to see nothing on 4 or 5 hunts in a row suck! I wonder if people will continue to come from out of state to hunt here and not see deer(probably will since it is dirt cheap for out-of-staters to hunt here).


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## dwmikemx

I know the ODNR publishes the deer harvest numbers every year. Do they publish the numbers for deer tags sold each year? I've heard the number of hunters have been going down each year. ????

I read each year that the Ohio deer herd size is around 700,000. Their numbers never seems to change even with the liberal bag limits. ??????

I will be interesting to see the final harvest numbers for the year come February.


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## billk

Bonus weekend last year 20,916, this year 16,766

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/New...tate-in-Weekend-Deer-Gun-Harvest-Numbers.aspx

If my calculations are correct, we're down a total of 15% from last year thus far (thru the end of gun season).


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## Eric E

Have you guys been reading all the reasons the talking head is giving out for the deer kill being down?


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## dwmikemx

Eric E said:


> Have you guys been reading all the reasons the talking head is giving out for the deer kill being down?



I thought I read somewhere they claim more people were bow hunting.

Any of them mention lack of deer????


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## Eric E

dwmikemx said:


> I thought I read somewhere they claim more people were bow hunting.
> 
> Any of them mention lack of deer????


Last year they said it was because of the big acorn mast and pretty much said hunters weren't smart enough to adapt to them..


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## wildman

They want it dowm to 400,000... Thats pretty low...


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## Muskarp

While deer numbers plummet on public land they are climbing or staying the same on leased, trophy managed or un-huntable lands. So, while many of us see lower numbers the state still sees about the same over all. It's just redistribution of the population.
I am, however, growing discouraged with Ohio hunting overall.
Grouse- too few to hunt more than once a year.
Pheasants- lower stockings and less days to hunt due to youth seasons. (i.e. half the birds are stocked for a few youth users, and one stocking is completly dropped for youth deer gun weekend)
Deer- over hunted public lands, commercialization of private lands.
If it's not the private sector squeezing us out of land, it's the state squeezing us out of days.


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## Bad Bub

Muskarp said:


> While deer numbers plummet on public land they are climbing or staying the same on leased, trophy managed or un-huntable lands. So, while many of us see lower numbers the state still sees about the same over all. It's just redistribution of the population.
> I am, however, growing discouraged with Ohio hunting overall.
> Grouse- too few to hunt more than once a year.
> Pheasants- lower stockings and less days to hunt due to youth seasons. (i.e. half the birds are stocked for a few youth users, and one stocking is completly dropped for youth deer gun weekend)
> Deer- over hunted public lands, commercialization of private lands.
> If it's not the private sector squeezing us out of land, it's the state squeezing us out of days.


I understand some of your frustration, but i would NEVER support the idea of taking days away from the youth seasons.... best father son weekend i've ever participated in.

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## Muskarp

Bad Bub said:


> i would NEVER support the idea of taking days away from the youth seasons.... best father son weekend i've ever participated in.


For you, because your benefiting. (As well as every non-resident with a kid.)
We all were able to hunt before these special days that blocked all the non-youth hunters. From my experience, I preferred hunting with the adults. It was the right of passage.
BTW- your viewpoint will change once your child is too old and your time is limited.


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## bad luck

Muskarp said:


> For you, because your benefiting. (As well as every non-resident with a kid.)
> We all were able to hunt before these special days that blocked all the non-youth hunters. From my experience, I preferred hunting with the adults. It was the right of passage.
> BTW- your viewpoint will change once your child is too old and your time is limited.


Bingo.

Fun with your kid won't go away just because they get older or the deck isn't stacked any more, if anything, they'll learn more when their in the "real world" of hunting.



Nice to see reason on the hunting forum, over in the L Erie forum in regards to walleyes, lotsa kool aid drinkers who think the state is all knowing and never wrong in regards to walleye.....just like the deer, not as many walleye either......you can blame it on this or that, but one common theme is mismanagement by the state


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## Bad Bub

Muskarp said:


> For you, because your benefiting. (As well as every non-resident with a kid.)
> We all were able to hunt before these special days that blocked all the non-youth hunters. From my experience, I preferred hunting with the adults. It was the right of passage.
> BTW- your viewpoint will change once your child is too old and your time is limited.


Actually i was the kid i was referring to.... my son is only 19 months old and i can't wait for the day to take him out for the first time. My dad hunted deer all of his life. Once i started hunting he was happier just tagging along without a gun to get the one on one time. None of his buddies butting in our time, not alot of people in the woods to worry about. Just us, nature and good stories.... i can't take advantage of any youth seasons now, but i want them to be there when my son can get on a public forum and hopefully discuss how much he enjoyed those "quiet" days in the woods with his dear old dad....

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## Bad Bub

Muskarp said:


> While deer numbers plummet on public land they are climbing or staying the same on leased, trophy managed or un-huntable lands. So, while many of us see lower numbers the state still sees about the same over all. It's just redistribution of the population.
> I am, however, growing discouraged with Ohio hunting overall.
> Grouse- too few to hunt more than once a year.
> Pheasants- lower stockings and less days to hunt due to youth seasons. (i.e. half the birds are stocked for a few youth users, and one stocking is completly dropped for youth deer gun weekend)
> Deer- over hunted public lands, commercialization of private lands.
> If it's not the private sector squeezing us out of land, it's the state squeezing us out of days.


As far as being "squeezed" out of days, i believe ohio has one of the longest deer seasons in the country. 5 months is alot of time to hunt deer. The private sector is what it is, private. It's their land to do what they want with. Nobody can touch that.... 

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## Muskarp

Bad Bub said:


> As far as being "squeezed" out of days, i believe ohio has one of the longest deer seasons in the country. 5 months is alot of time to hunt deer.


I wasn't refering to archery deer season. (note the word "pheasant")

Still think their not deer ticks?


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## Bonemann

I moved back to Ohio in 1991 and at that time I could not believe how the deer population had exploded (I left the state in 1983).

I had only hunted Jefferson County and all threw the 90's we were in the top 3 counties for kills.Then top 5 , now we're lucky to make top 10. It has been on the decline ever since and doesn't appear to be getting any better.

First it was 2 deer then 3 now 6 ? I grant you no one I know takes 6 but I'm sure there are those that do ! 

And for what reason would they make it that "one person" can harvest 2 in zone A , 4 in zone B and 6 in zone C ? 12 Deer not counting for urban zone deer ? which I believe is another 6 ?

Back in Jefferson County's heyday I had seen army's of Amish folks, so many out of county plates we stopped counting and the beginnings of out of state hunters too. That has pretty much subsided with our lack of deer population (around here) !!!

Between coyotes and bag limits we are heading for a change that I for one do not like !!!


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## Bad Bub

Muskarp said:


> I wasn't refering to archery deer season. (note the word "pheasant")
> 
> Still think their not deer ticks?


Well your not squeezed out of any days for pheasants for any youth season. Read the book! Youth small game season is 2 weekends before the regular pheasant season opens, and you may hunt small game during the youth deer season as long as your not carrying slugs.... as for the stocking programs, the state stocks what they have available and the dates, by what i can find over the last several years, have not changed....


As for the deer ticks, i stand corrected. Poor research of poor information on my part. 

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## wildman

I for one don't like youth season at all... The youth these days are hand delivered everything.(like every thing else) Sorry I love that kids are hunting. I take mine hunting. 

When I was 10 I remember hunting with my grandfather and all of his deer camp buddies at Wolf creak. The high point was shooting at one 100yd's away. That is something I will never forget. My point is, that's what kept me in hunting. It was hard! Now kids get out shoot mooses and doe's and it is easy. I still liked it even though I didn't get one. What kept me in hunting was the small game hunting which we are lacking. In the 1940's we had fewer people but we had well over 700,000 hunters out there each year and We didn't have deer to hunt. Now there are well over double the people in Ohio and deer but we are down to 420,000 hunters. Small game is what keeps the youth hunting not youth deer season..

I know others will disagree. This is just my opinion.

As for the low #'s well bonemann is right you can shoot 18 deer in Ohio. 

Earlier this year I said the #'s would be a lot lower with the deer check-in system. now of course the weather is now to blame which we have had plenty of years with bad weather. then its the corn not bing cut and the low # of hunters. 

I still say it is the new check-in system. Like I said in other threads.
Again I am sure that others will disagree...


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## Muskarp

Bad Bub said:


> Well your not squeezed out of any days for pheasants for any youth season. Read the book! Youth small game season is 2 weekends before the regular pheasant season opens, and you may hunt small game during the youth deer season as long as your not carrying slugs....


AGAIN.....-1 stocking because of youth deer season! Before youth deer season was invented, that was a stocked weekend. That equals a lost weekend.
While, I understand you are one of the "entitled youths" and you want your child to be one as well. This practice does nothing but alienate hunters that fall outside the group.
As far as your father only spending time away from his buddies because the state forces him to, well that's between you and him.


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## Bad Bub

wildman said:


> I for one don't like youth season at all... The youth these days are hand delivered everything.(like every thing else) Sorry I love that kids are hunting. I take mine hunting.
> 
> When I was 10 I remember hunting with my grandfather and all of his deer camp buddies at Wolf creak. The high point was shooting at one 100yd's away. That is something I will never forget. My point is, that's what kept me in hunting. It was hard! Now kids get out shoot mooses and doe's and it is easy. I still liked it even though I didn't get one. What kept me in hunting was the small game hunting which we are lacking. In the 1940's we had fewer people but we had well over 700,000 hunters out there each year and We didn't have deer to hunt. Now there are well over double the people in Ohio and deer but we are down to 420,000 hunters. Small game is what keeps the youth hunting not youth deer season..
> 
> I know others will disagree. This is just my opinion.
> 
> As for the low #'s well bonemann is right you can shoot 18 deer in Ohio.
> 
> Earlier this year I said the #'s would be a lot lower with the deer check-in system. now of course the weather is now to blame which we have had plenty of years with bad weather. then its the corn not bing cut and the low # of hunters.
> 
> I still say it is the new check-in system. Like I said in other threads.
> Again I am sure that others will disagree...


So who's fault is it that the youth are handed everything these days??? Parents maybe??? And why do you suppose there are half the hunters now as opposed to back when you were a kid??? If you read every other post on this site about trespassers, poachers, the orange army and slugs flying past everyones heads from 300yrd shots at running deer, maybe introducing a kid to deer hunting away from all of that might avoid the negative image that some of the adults are putting out there. Don't throw them to the wolves on their first outing for gods sakes. That could ruin it for them before they ever get started.

As for the check in system, i believe that may have an impact in say 3-4 years, but it doesn't explain the complaints of people not seeing deer now. Numbers have to be low in some areas for sightings to be down. The numbers may be getting fudged a bit by the system, but people just aren't seeing deer either...

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## crittergitter

Muskarp said:


> While deer numbers plummet on public land they are climbing or staying the same on leased, trophy managed or un-huntable lands. So, while many of us see lower numbers the state still sees about the same over all. It's just redistribution of the population.


This is an AWESOME point. It's becoming the have's and the have not's. Sure Mike Tonkovich and his buddies see LOTS of deer on their private land that they control the harvest rate on. I bet they don't tag their limit of doe every fall. Yet, on public land in the northern 2/3 of the state deer are scarce. There is still deer to be found, but the population is WAY down. I would think even the deer colllision incident reports would reflect that.


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## Bad Bub

Entitled youth.... give me a break!!!!

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## bkr43050

Bad Bub said:


> As for the check in system, i believe that may have an impact in say 3-4 years, but it doesn't explain the complaints of people not seeing deer now. Numbers have to be low in some areas for sightings to be down. The numbers may be getting fudged a bit by the system, but people just aren't seeing deer either...


That is exactly the point I was about to make. The new system should have no bearing on the hunters' results in the field up to this point. Blaming it on that would imply that people have removed all of the deer illegally within the first few weeks of the season and I don't think you will get too many people here to buy in to that theory. I don't believe that the system will cause issues down the line either but I feel that that argument is altogether separate from the discussion of the current deer numbers.

I don't view the situation quite as grave as some here might but I do see what appears to be a significant thinning of the herd in my area. I feel the final numbers for this year will support that as I suspect that the late season harvest will continue to be lower than previous years and will be putting us at harvest numbers not seen for 5-6 years. I don't think the DNR will ever go back to bag limits as small as some suggest but I would like to see the number backed off to 3. Personally I can not see how folks can not get what they need from a bag limit of 3, especially considering that three would feed a couple people for a year. Even at 3 per person my family could have 12 deer and that is not counting my wife who would not shoot them. Me and my 3 boys hunt and could limit out theoretically. We as a family went through 3 mature deer last year and that was using it as our primary meat source.


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## Red1

I know what you mean about the Amish. Whether hunting or fishing, sometimes it seems they don't pay attention to things like size and quantity. But it's not just Amish, there are plenty of irresponsible hunters out there, and they give everyone a bad name. Unless you're in an area that's crawling with deer, let's stick to the adage, "Say no to a doe." The state doesn't seem to care if there's a good deer population, so it's up to us to be good stewards of the land and not shoot at anything that moves.


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## wildman

Bad Bub said:


> So who's fault is it that the youth are handed everything these days??? Parents maybe??? And why do you suppose there are half the hunters now as opposed to back when you were a kid??? If you read every other post on this site about trespassers, poachers, the orange army and slugs flying past everyones heads from 300yrd shots at running deer, maybe introducing a kid to deer hunting away from all of that might avoid the negative image that some of the adults are putting out there. Don't throw them to the wolves on their first outing for gods sakes. That could ruin it for them before they ever get started.
> 
> As for the check in system, i believe that may have an impact in say 3-4 years, but it doesn't explain the complaints of people not seeing deer now. Numbers have to be low in some areas for sightings to be down. The numbers may be getting fudged a bit by the system, but people just aren't seeing deer either...
> 
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My first time out was not during gun season for one... another I was on public land this year and there wasn't slugs fling past me. hell The hunters were not out. nor was it bad last year or the year before. That was public. I know for a fact that my priv land was untouched. Throwing them to the wolves is kind of a silly commit. My first deer hunting was bow hunting with a crossbow.

"trespassers, poachers, the orange army and slugs flying past everyones heads from 300yrd shots at running deer," Really? Hell why even get him in the sport since it is so bad. Come on. Don't let your kids drive. speed limits getting broke stop sign getting run dui's. 

I just think youth season with the right scouting hand delivers a kill in a lot of cases. It is the chase that keeps the kids going IMO. 

Oh yea, I was not born in the 30's I was 10 in the 80's. So my reason for the lose of hunters is there isn't hardly any small game. (upland game birds/rabbit) which is a big problem when it comes to getting kids to hunt. Sitting in a stand for hours deer hunting is not a lot of fun for most kid's. (unless it's a good morning) walking a field talking to dad or friends shooting birds or rabbits is fun. More than playing a playstation which is what we are competing with when it come to getting young hunters out in the field.


I can go for a drive from my shop to my house and see 30 deer I am seeing deer. I feel that if in my case 12 can be shot. If that area is the prime area for 3 or 4 guys they can do real damage to the #'s add in the wounded ones and it hurts it really bad. I agree that the limits are to high but I am still seeing a lot of deer. JUST NOT SHOOTER BUCKS!!!


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## billk

Muskarp said:


> While deer numbers plummet on public land they are climbing or staying the same on leased, trophy managed or un-huntable lands. So, while many of us see lower numbers the state still sees about the same over all. It's just redistribution of the population.


agree with this comment 100%

ODNR needs to base bag limits on huntable areas. I'd like to see them tally the number of public land deer kills vs. private land.


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## Bad Bub

wildman said:


> My first time out was not during gun season for one... another I was on public land this year and there wasn't slugs fling past me. hell The hunters were not out. nor was it bad last year or the year before. That was public. I know for a fact that my priv land was untouched. Throwing them to the wolves is kind of a silly commit. My first deer hunting was bow hunting with a crossbow.
> 
> "trespassers, poachers, the orange army and slugs flying past everyones heads from 300yrd shots at running deer," Really? Hell why even get him in the sport since it is so bad. Come on. Don't let your kids drive. speed limits getting broke stop sign getting run dui's.
> 
> I just think youth season with the right scouting hand delivers a kill in a lot of cases. It is the chase that keeps the kids going IMO.
> 
> Oh yea, I was not born in the 30's I was 10 in the 80's. So my reason for the lose of hunters is there isn't hardly any small game. (upland game birds/rabbit) which is a big problem when it comes to getting kids to hunt. Sitting in a stand for hours deer hunting is not a lot of fun for most kid's. (unless it's a good morning) walking a field talking to dad or friends shooting birds or rabbits is fun. More than playing a playstation which is what we are competing with when it come to getting young hunters out in the field.
> 
> 
> I can go for a drive from my shop to my house and see 30 deer I am seeing deer. I feel that if in my case 12 can be shot. That if that area is the prime area for 3 or for guys they can do real damage to the #'s add in the wounded ones and it hurts it really bad. I agree that the limits are to high but I am still seeing a lot of deer. JUST NOT SHOOTER BUCKS!!!


See, we agree on pretty much all of this. The video games are the killers. So why would you want to eliminate a tool to use against the video games? To us the chase is whats fun that's what it was about when we grew up. Now it's pictures of mega bucks on t.v. and the internet and that's what these kids (some not all) expect to happen. They walk into the woods, sit on stand for 4 hours, get bored and realize it's not as easy to succeed deer hunting as it is with an x-box controller in hand. I actually checked the license sales for the state since they started selling them for a dollar and the major decline started about the time the original nintendo system went mainstream in the mid 80's. That cannot just be coincidence. As for the poachers, slugs over our heads, etc. , i was just referring to the many other threads going on on this site that so many people are complaining about. I'm in the same boat as you with deer numbers for the most part. One place i hunt is loaded with does and young bucks, just haven't seen anything big. Behind my parents, i've had the same 2 does on the trail camera since the 3rd week of bow season. Nothing else. Numbers are way down there. As far as the small game, i'm from a rabbit hunting family, also my first hunt. Very spotty nowadays, but still what i look forward to when i put the boat away. I just feel that if we want kids to start hunting, you've got to give them every opportunity to succeed. I'm sure every father out there that ever played a game with their kids let them score a few points here and there.... or maybe some dunk it in their face every chance they get.... i don't want to jump to conclusions.... 

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## wildman

I agree with you to an extent. I get my info an opinions from lessons learn in life. The highschool that I went to was kind of like a 90210 school. Kids with cars that I can't even afford now.LOL I had lots of friends there.
My Point: Some of the kids there, were given everything and some kids, there parents made them work for it.. 75% of the kids that were given everything ended up becoming some what worthless. Drug's some still living in the basements of there parents and so on.. The ones that were taught to work for there things it was the opposite. We all have seen this.

Challange them. Put the taste of hunting in the mouth's. Don't hand feed it to them. But that is just me. I know some kids do need to be coached more than others.

I actually coach basketball. LOL


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## Bad Bub

wildman said:


> I agree with you to an extent. I get my info an opinions from lessons learn in life. The highschool that I went to was kind of like a 90210 school. Kids with cars that I can't even afford now.LOL I had lots of friends there.
> My Point: Some of the kids there, were given everything and some kids, there parents made them work for it.. 75% of the kids that were given everything ended up becoming some what worthless. Drug's some still living in the basements of there parents and so on.. The ones that were taught to work for there things it was the opposite. We all have seen this.
> 
> Challange them. Put the taste of hunting in the mouth's. Don't hand feed it to them. But that is just me. I know some kids do need to be coached more than others.
> 
> I actually coach basketball. LOL


I'm from farm country in jefferson county. (Well, what used to be farm country anyhow) most kids had a work ethic and tough parents, rode the bus, and missed practice to put up hay. My brother came from the new breed. Rather play x-box till 3 am than sit in a tree or fight briars all morning. He's successful with his job, just never had the desire... (rabbit hunts occasionally) he has a ball when the dogs are busy all day, but if it's slow he's ready to go home. I just think youth seasons are a good way to ease kids into it. Might not be right for all, but if they're already all for hunting, i doubt they would complain about an extra weekend.... 

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## killingtime

i am 42 years old and never participated in a youth hunt but i am 100% in favor of it. i have taken many kids on youth duck hunts and deer hunts and when a kid shoots that first duck or shoots that first deer the expression on there faces are priceless. i took 2 brothers on there first duck hunt 14 years ago with both of them shooting birds and one was banded and now 14 years later they still call me and tell me when they shoot something and are as excited as the first time i took them. i took another kid during deer youth season and we sat on my 30 acres where i knew there was an eleven point comining into my wetlands pond every evening and i let him shoot it. i took him on another property that morning where we seen 7 doe but could not get a shot so i let him shoot the buck that evening on my property. after the deer crashed and he ejected the other 2 shells out of his gun we sat there for a few minutes and he looked at me and and he began to tell me how thankful he was as he was shaking from excitement. i think these hunts coud not have been a success without the youth season. i have taken other kids who did not bag anything but really enjoyed the experience and are still hunting to this day. i open up my property and the property next to me every year to anybody that wants to take the kids on youth day and i cant be more proud when a kids bags one or just comes out and has a good time with there parents. alot of kids are handed everything but we cant punish the kids are not handed everything who want this oppurtunity and take full advantage of it.


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## Bad Bub

killingtime said:


> i am 42 years old and never participated in a youth hunt but i am 100% in favor of it. i have taken many kids on youth duck hunts and deer hunts and when a kid shoots that first duck or shoots that first deer the expression on there faces are priceless. i took 2 brothers on there first duck hunt 14 years ago with both of them shooting birds and one was banded and now 14 years later they still call me and tell me when they shoot something and are as excited as the first time i took them. i took another kid during deer youth season and we sat on my 30 acres where i knew there was an eleven point comining into my wetlands pond every evening and i let him shoot it. i took him on another property that morning where we seen 7 doe but could not get a shot so i let him shoot the buck that evening on my property. after the deer crashed and he ejected the other 2 shells out of his gun we sat there for a few minutes and he looked at me and and he began to tell me how thankful he was as he was shaking from excitement. i think these hunts coud not have been a success without the youth season. i have taken other kids who did not bag anything but really enjoyed the experience and are still hunting to this day. i open up my property and the property next to me every year to anybody that wants to take the kids on youth day and i cant be more proud when a kids bags one or just comes out and has a good time with there parents. alot of kids are handed everything but we cant punish the kids are not handed everything who want this oppurtunity and take full advantage of it.


Awesome! 

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## wildman

I agree that it is nice to get them out and it is great that you take the time to do it. Not to mention that you put your property out there for them to use... I just know that I didn't get one my first many years but that is what gave me the drive to hunt. I take my kids out pheasent hunting and dove hunting. I usually go the day after the release. We have a lot of fun. My dogs are pretty good so we still get our birds.

The same good times are there weather it's youth or not. The opertunitys to harvest a deer are still there also.. I know people don't agree but thats just how I feel. I also am not a fan of the really young out shooting deer either. Like 6, 7,and 8 yr olds. Just my personal opinion.


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## killingtime

my father passed away almost 2 years ago and there is hardly a day that goes by i dont think of a time we went fishing or hunting together. if it wasnt for him its hard telling what i would be doing. i try to pass on what i know to any youngster that is eager to learn. these days there are not alot of fathers in there kids lives to help with these oppurtunities so i think it is up to us seasoned veterans to help when we can. i have a 3 year old boy and i cant wait to have him sit in a duck blind or a buddy stand and take in what the good lord has given us. if he ends up not hunting then so be it i know he was giving a chance to see what its about and i will be there for whatever he likes to do.


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman

Back to original topic, I have seen numbers are way down in Gallia Co. where I hunt.

Have seen over 8 bucks and only one doe throughout 3 days of gun and all bonus weekend. 4 of the bucks I pushed to my Dad on a small drive where they were all spikes and forks which no one wants (no wonder they are around) Normally see 20+ Even tried our normal drives and didn't even see one. I did not see a deer bonus weekend and its just pathetic anymore. Hunting a couple hundred acres and hunting it hard to go from 15+ last few years to nearly 0 this year is very disappointing and six deer is way to many!

As for youth season, coming from a youth, those days I had with my Dad are some I will never forget and being able to get the first shot at em is what made it even more special. We need more youth hunting and I believe it is a great idea to give them the bonus weekend.


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## TomC

I hunt in may different counties. In a couple counties the numbers seem to be the same or up, fayette and allen co. other counties i hunt in the numbers seem to be down miami and clark. I think its a combo of pressure, yotes and late season crops. but who knows next year could be another record season its nature, you cant predict it!


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## Bad Bub

TomC said:


> I hunt in may different counties. In a couple counties the numbers seem to be the same or up, fayette and allen co. other counties i hunt in the numbers seem to be down miami and clark. I think its a combo of pressure, yotes and late season crops. but who knows next year could be another record season its nature, you cant predict it!


Gotta agree a little bit with you. Never know what mother nature will throw at us next year....

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## Lundy

NorthSouthOhioFisherman said:


> Hunting a couple hundred acres and hunting it hard to go from 15+ last few years to nearly 0 this year is very disappointing and six deer is way to many!
> .


Where did the deer go? Did you or someone else kill them last year and the year before? They didn't just migrate south

The DNR didn't kill them, so it really doesn't matter if the limit is 6 or 2, only hunters kill them.


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman

Lundy said:


> Where did the deer go? Did you or someone else kill them last year and the year before? They didn't just migrate south
> 
> The DNR didn't kill them, so it really doesn't matter if the limit is 6 or 2, only hunters kill them.


It's been a decrease year to year within the last 3, yes they did


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## Muskarp

NorthSouthOhioFisherman said:


> Hunting a couple hundred acres and hunting it hard to go from 15+ last few years to nearly 0 this year is very disappointing and six deer is way to many!
> 
> So have you been killing 15+ the last few years?
> 
> 
> 
> As for youth season, coming from a youth, those days I had with my Dad are some I will never forget and being able to get the first shot at em is what made it even more special. We need more youth hunting and I believe it is a great idea to give them the bonus weekend.


I think that's the only thing you really care about. Because people have been being mentored in the art of hunting long before there were youth seasons. All these arguements about that being the only way you can get out is just a bunch of BS. Hunting numbers continue to decline because adults are becoming discouraged with hunting, not youths!


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## Eric E

The one property I hunt has a lot of poaching problems, and yotes. We find dead bucks all the time there, full carcasses, shot with a gun. I have seen almost as coyotes as deer this year. I am about to start hunting squirrels there, instead of deer.


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## Brian.Smith

I personally think numbers are down cause the weather has been horrible for hunting. I think they are there but with 40-50 deg days deer are moving in the evening. Then the first 3 days of gun all it did was rain so people didn't see any also not many people out. If you hunt in Southern ohio near corn they didn't get the crops off till late this will also affect hunting as the deer will bed in the corn fields where they have food and shelter. Many factors contribute to a low kill rate. I feel that this new deer checking system will hurt the deer herd more than people think.


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## AnglinAddict

There's 5 months of deer season and some people complain about 1 weekend of youth gun season. There's nothing stopping you from hunting that weekend too as long as you don't have a kid with you. It's still legal archery season you just have to wear orange.

A good friend of mine has taken his son to the private property we hunt the last 2 years. This year his son got an 8 point. Everyone was very happy for both him and his son, and he was quite the proud papa. I was still able to harvest a deer there on opening day. I hope many more take advantage of that weekend and spend some quality time with their children.


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## Capital outdoorsman

Let me preface this with the fact that I don't hunt so I don't know how accurate this is. My coworker lives in the country just north of Columbus. Her neighbor is a farmer. She says that the farm owner told her that they killed over 60 deer this year with nuisance permits. Can this be right? It gets worse IMO. Most of the deer were left to rot. The farmer originally thought he could donate them but when he found out he had to pay for the butchering he just left em for the yotes.


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## AEFISHING

You have to pay for the processing when you donate a deer?


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## Bad Bub

In the rule book it says if you take it to one of the states listed processors to be donated you do not have to pay a processing fee.

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## dirtandleaves

Here's a GRAND IDEA. Hunt more coyotes! I think its at least as fun as deer huntin' anyway


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## KWaller

For ya guys who complain about the yotes, have you ever hunted them??? You guys and friends need to try and hunt yotes once a month or so. It is really fun, you can drive for them too. I shot my first ever past Sunday and I honestly felt better dropping those suckers than a good buck.

All in all, we (including me) say the coyotes are the major problem, I think the problem is the hunters and the extra gun season and bag limits.

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## Duncan Bay

IMO the deer kill is down due to lack of hunters. I rode out to the local state park here in the southeastern part of the state on Sunday before opening day as I always do to see how many hunters are staying in the cabins. I was suprised to see a lot of the cabins were empty.

On a side note if the state would bring the gun season in on Saturday after Thanksgiving they would have more people in the woods and in turn higher deer kill numbers.


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## Bonemann

I think the state feels that it knows what they are doing.

We (the hunters) are nothing more than pawns in this game. We execute most any plan they come up with (with vigor). Allot of times we are our worse enemy !!!

I came to realize this when they gave us the two week season. The place I hunted at that time took 33 doe and 7 bucks (just during gun season) an additional 10 were taken during archery and muzzle loading (normally we took 1/2 that many or less). Some how everyone thought there was a never ending supply of deer on those farms.

The next 5 or 6 years were really bad out there and we did it to ourselves. Now I see it happening state wide. Between bag limits,decease,kill permits, car kills and coyotes we are moving the heard in a different direction.

The deer that are left should have more to eat (maybe larger and healthier?) The buck to doe ratio should be better causing better genes to be passed along ? But the easy hunting may come have to an end ?

What ever the reason(s) it is changing (insurance companies and farmers are happier) hunters are complaining but we did it to ourselves ?


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## Red1

One buck can service many does, but every time you kill a doe you kill three deer immediately. Just so "no" to doe.


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## Snook

I hunt in the same general area as Dbl J. The deer heard is DEFINITELY down! Allowing 6 deer to be shot is just crazy!!!I hunt all private property and find it tough for me to pull the trigger on a doe(when I can) because of the lack of deer I'm seeing.IMOP some things the state needs to consider:

Manage the public hunting land differently. Thousands of beautiful acres with little wildlife to show for it. Most guy's hunt these properties because that's what they have to hunt. Mangage the herd diferently on these properties than that of private ground.

By all means keep the youth season! Some people are envious of it but if you ever hunted with a kid that got his/her first deer it is priceless. Furthermore you are introducing a kid to the outdoors and not the Xbox. The only thing I would do different is allow one deer. Most kids are ecstactic with killing a deer. Shooting multiple deer takes from what I think the youth hunt was all about...experiencing the thrill of the hunt and enjoying nature.

Control the amount of antlerless tag's(bonus tag's) a county can receive.The zone system is a little to "broad"


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## Bad Bub

I know where everyone is coming from as far as wanting the state to change the limits. I enjoy seeing 20 deer a day just as much as the next guy, but the state didn't implement the high bag limits because we asked to kill more deer. They want the population down. Bottom line. They have a number in mind and they aren't going to change it till they reach that goal. I don't know if our complaints would ever change their decision on that either..... 

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## Muskarp

Bad Bub said:


> the state wants to give young hunters a chance to kill a deer before some a-hole like you comes pushing through


Bad kid, this comment pretty much sums up why I see no need to force every respecting hunter out of the woods for youth deer w/e. KIDS HAVE NONE! You and the rest of your brethren are correct, I can still hunt that w/e. But unlike you, I have respect for others and will not run my dog while people are trying to deer hunt. I also wouldn't want to have an incident with a gun-ho parent claiming my bird dog was running deer.
While your father was only willing to hand the weapon over when he was forced to by the state. I have allowed the youths (5 nephews-and quite a few of their friends, all introduced to hunting by me) hunting with me to take shots while I was quite legal to take it myself. That's much more honorable than having the state tell me to do it. The way I see it a good parent or mentor shouldn't need the state to tell them to let the kid have a shot!

And for the non readers that keep saying deer season is 5 months. Please read. Ohio hunting does not revolve around deer season for every hunter, contrary to what the state thinks. I know lots of guys that don't do it!


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## wildman

Muskarp That was my point. They act like the only time a kid can hunt is during the youth season... The kids can hunt anytime, That Includes opening day Gun. Youth gun is something that I have heard of parents taking advantage it.


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## Bad Bub

Muskarp said:


> Bad kid, this comment pretty much sums up why I see no need to force every respecting hunter out of the woods for youth deer w/e. KIDS HAVE NONE! You and the rest of your brethren are correct, I can still hunt that w/e. But unlike you, I have respect for others and will not run my dog while people are trying to deer hunt. I also wouldn't want to have an incident with a gun-ho parent claiming my bird dog was running deer.
> While your father was only willing to hand the weapon over when he was forced to by the state. I have allowed the youths (5 nephews-and quite a few of their friends, all introduced to hunting by me) hunting with me to take shots while I was quite legal to take it myself. That's much more honorable than having the state tell me to do it. The way I see it a good parent or mentor shouldn't need the state to tell them to let the kid have a shot!
> 
> And for the non readers that keep saying deer season is 5 months. Please read. Ohio hunting does not revolve around deer season for every hunter, contrary to what the state thinks. I know lots of guys that don't do it!


First off pal, my dad never needed the state to "force" him to hand over the gun. Secondly, you say you have respect for others? You sure haven't shown it in this post. You don't know me or my father. However your comments really show what kind of person you are.... i'm sorry that 2 days of youth season is ruining you enjoyment in the woods. Guess the state should've asked you if it was o.k. first.

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## eatwhatyoukeep

I also think that the numbers are down. I live in Clinton county. We used to see deer in the fields all the time, now it is a rarity. It does cut down on accidents though


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## joe goble

I have been seeing as many as normal, during gun week I seen around 50 deer a day that were 200 yards or closer 

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## Snook

joe goble said:


> I have been seeing as many as normal, during gun week I seen around 50 deer a day that were 200 yards or closer
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


What county you hunting?I'm glad someone is seeing such numbers. You surely have some good property. Just curious as to which zone it falls into?


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## Mushijobah

So that's 1 good report out of how many? LOL


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