# Not What We Were Wanting To Hear



## LEfriend (Jun 14, 2009)

Debated posting this link, because I don't want to be the one who starts WW3 on here. But we all have been eagerly awaiting indications of the hatch and Steve Pollick has a well written article in today's Toledo Blade about what they know and what they don't yet know about this years hatch at this point. 

There are two take aways from the article.... 1) It is too early to know for sure, and 2) Early indications are not at all what everyone was hoping for.

As I said Pollick does a good job and it is a well written through article, so read beyond the first paragraph...after you read the trawl numbers reported and let out an "Oh Crap".

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100808/COLUMNIST22/8070376


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## lskater (Mar 19, 2007)

I figured it would be brought up here when I read it today. It is what it is I guess. I was hoping for a better survey but hopefully latter ones will yield better results. As Steve says it will get all the factions talking thats for sure.


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## Double J (Jan 7, 2009)

I think we can pretty much count on reduced limits for next year.wonder what the majic formula was in 03 that produced the mega hatch?that class sure has been carrying the lake.


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## Steelhead Fever (Dec 31, 2009)

i have no problem with a smaller limit...IMO people are taking way to many fish..it will only help and be better in the future


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## NLC25 (Jan 21, 2008)

There must be some balance. If the fishery is permanently reduced that is also probably not good for business...


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## bocajemma (Dec 29, 2008)

I did catch a 4" walleye perch fishing this weekend. I would assume that was from this years hatch..... Cleanly hooked and released quickly. I do recall another post not too long ago that had some better trawl reports. Hopefully when we get all the info from the official results later it will be better than average.


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## tomb (Oct 9, 2004)

That is a well written article covering the various points of contention regarding the population and limits. Thanks for posting the link.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

Thanks for posting. Knowledge is a good thing.


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## Tommybouy (Jun 5, 2005)

Thanks for sharing. This is one of the better efforts I have seen toward citing walleye population challenges. This is a "hot topic" and always wonder how much that will have to play. I read on this site that a trawl by Green Is. this year had 10 baby Wally's per hectare when they weren't trawling for Walleye.... 4-5 weeks until the final and then we will know..Fingers still crossed on the spawn.

Thanks Again!


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## wakina (May 30, 2007)

Those little guys know what is best for them by now. I am hoping they have moved to cleaner water to escape the algae bloom that is happening right now. I believe the ODNR conducts their test trolls in the same area every year. So that is a possibilty that the little guys have moved and were not at home for the test troll. One must remember that we have had an exceptionally wet year to date and that makes for a lot of extra runoff from the farm land. Indiana has a vast amount of farm land that drains into the Maumee River drainage.

I have fished the lake in the western basin since 1955 starting as an eight year old. Back then you could catch walleyes all summer long in the reef complex and not just small fish either. I saw the lake go from crystal clear in the 50's to a muddy cesspool in the sixties, I also was fortunate enough to see the lake turn around and become alive again. The larger fish have changed in respect to the yearly migration to the east as well as what they like to eat. So it is my thought that the hatch may be better than what the preliminary test troll indicates as survival is an inherited trait that mother nature builds into every species. If a species is unable to adapt then their fate is sealed, but it appears that lake Erie walleyes are very adaptable to environmental changes and hopefully they were some where else more comfortable at the time of the testing.
Just my .02


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## wakina (May 30, 2007)

Maybe the hatch was better than first thought, much better! Here is a link to the Ohio Sea Grant site, please check it out, it was posted today 09/1/2010.

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/index.php?topic=1325.0


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

I trust Sea Grant a little more than ANY newswriter


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

They have missed hatches before, and they will again. It's an unavoidable situation. They do the best that anyone could, but it's all a process of extrapolation and estimating. In our construction business we called called numbers like these "swag" figures....(Scientific Wild A$$ed Guesses). All these 15" fish in the west end are not 03fish, and guys over east are catching smelt feed fish under 18" that are likely not 03 fish. 

It seems like there are more 04, 05 & 06 fish in the lake then first thought. We tend to assume the troll numbers are right on, and likely overall things even out, but in the short term the latest numbers can be off significantly. (that's why they adjust them yearly according to catch results)

It's a complex situation and untill we find the plug for Lake Erie so we can drain it and count them one by one, all they can do is use all the data available, and turn the crank.


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## CarpetBagger (Sep 21, 2009)

Raise the size to 18" and limits of 4...


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## bocajemma (Dec 29, 2008)

Perch fishing around Rattlesnake this year I have caught several YOY walleye as well as catching several YOY small mouth and white bass this year. I have not caught this many YOY of any species in the past 4 years. Still holding out hope for the spawn this year!


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## mcornett (May 25, 2010)

OK What is YOY?


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## mcornett (May 25, 2010)

Young of Year?


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## bocajemma (Dec 29, 2008)

Yes, young of year


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## Steelhead Fever (Dec 31, 2009)

CarpetBagger said:


> Raise the size to 18" and limits of 4...


I second that,also what I think would help even more is a max. too,like most saltwater fish,those are your big spawners,and you catch/keep more of these then ones around 15"...JMO


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## daveofhiram (Jul 30, 2007)

stop fishing during the spawn!!!!!!!!!! that's my 2 cents........


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

CarpetBagger said:


> Raise the size to 18" and limits of 4...


That's great to hear that from a charter captain! I'm all for whatever it takes to keep Erie the world class fishery that it is. On another note I heard from a good friend that the walleye trawl results in August were BETTER than what they originally thought??? This is great news if it's true.


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## smokin drag (Jul 13, 2010)

The walleye fishing has a great spawn ever 5 years. Every body has their ideas just what went wrong. Blooms, pollution,netting,over fishing,or just a bad spawn. Every year more & more people fish the lake for these white nuggets of meat. A 28in" eye takes 9to10 years to get that big,and mostly their for a trophy. I fish the spring run at the Mamuee, and watch a lot of big females come out. Also at that the males that breed with them. Instead of lowering the#'s on eyes. I think a slot is in order for walleyes. 19" to 27" would keep the smaller males and the older females time to breed. In the river or the reef to let the old girls get15to20 lb. That would be great, also bring back a good breed for the year.


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Would some one please put up that pic of the dead horse being beaten:beat-up:


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

> stop fishing during the spawn!!!!!!!!!! that's my 2 cents........


When do you fish the most?


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

daveofhiram said:


> stop fishing during the spawn!!!!!!!!!! that's my 2 cents........



my nerve was struck again! What the crap is the difference if you take that fish out of the lake in July or in March???????!!!!! You are still taking it out of the system and keeping it from doing its thing the next year. If you close the spawn you may as well not keep ANY fish caught. ODNR has regulations, let them do their jobs and if you dont want to keep that big fish in the spring then let her go, but when you get that big hog in the summer you better let her go also!


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

reo said:


> Would some one please put up that pic of the dead horse being beaten:beat-up:


Ask and you shall recieve sir


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

No kidding with the dead horse


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

K gonefishin said:


> Ask and you shall recieve sir



:clap::clap: nuff said


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

dang, kev,,,,thought i had that copyrighted, LOL


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## Triple B (Sep 25, 2008)

We've had quite a mix this year for fish. Granted there have been more big fish in the mix but also more small fish than the past several years. Like some here have said, it's not an exact science - lots of variables. I'm OK with 4 but don"t see the need for 18" min. as CB suggested. I like a slot better but don"t think that works either in that 18" or slot equels more fish released to die. Erie deep water trolling in my opinion doesn't allow much room for catch and release. Once you drag a fish up from there, handle it in the net etc. I'm hard pressed to believe many survive the ordeal. Obviously not an exact science either, just my opinion.


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

You guys are twisted... now I don't feel so alone!


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## RiverDoc (Mar 12, 2010)

These debates are nothing new and my Father was talking about the time in the 40s and 50s when people had suggesting stopping fishing for 1 year to let the fish populations rebound. The problem with these debates is that, without an absolute census of the population, no one can specifically say what is going on with it. Electrofishing might work in a small lakes and shallow rivers but it won't tell you what is going on in the middle of Lake Erie or any of the Great Lakes. 

In addition to fish, there are many terrestrial vertebrates and invertebrates that follow population trends, for which no one can explain. For many organisms, there exists what population ecologists refer to as boom and bust cycles. One year a population will be high and no one can explain the reason for it. Another year it will crash and everyone wants to point a finger to blame. These populations may alternate between boom and bust cycles for 5, 6, or seven years and the cycle will oscillate or change followed by back-to-back bust or boom years. 

These population cycles are normal for any organism. When you deal with living organisms you are dealing with mystery. Science can only do so much with its predictions. There comes a point where it fails to account for perturbations and then it is up to the armchair philosophers to speculate what is happening. 

What I see happening in this country is similar to what Clemenceau once said, "war is too important to leave to the generals". This can be said about religion, science, and yes, even fishing. That is, fishing is too important to leave to fishermen. 

I've watched many of these debates about changing limits, etc., when no one, not even the PhD's who study these fish can only speculate about what is going on with the population. Don't get me wrong, the debate is healthy as long as it spurs on research that seeks to investigate true parameters for a population. 

The genesis of these debates stems from the turn of the last century. It was during that time which saw the debate about conservationism vs. preservationism. The Roosevelt group believed that parks should be built for people, for recreation, as a means for providing jobs, and to enjoy the resources. It was referred to as utilitarian conservation. The Muir group posited beliefs known as biocentric preservation, which suggested that all organisms have the right to exist and pursue their own interests.

If you look at the fishing regulations that we currently have, they are probably adequate to sustain our fisheries. It is worth noting that sometimes these debates seem hostile, with some treating species and land as sacred. However, fishermen and hunters provided the initial means by which we developed conservation programs. Money in the form of license fees was, and has been used, to help regulate these resources. Perhaps most hunters and fishermen see fisheries and wildlife as important natural resources and treat them with respect. I am sure that they do.

The coming years might see, I fear, a tendency to move more in the Muir direction. We will preserve all of our resources and many of our fisheries and hunting lands will become nature preserves. This will be preceded by regulations that make it difficult or impact those activities; e.g., endangered species in an area, no lead sinkers or split shots, etc. We might not be able to hunt and fish in some areas, but we will be able to develop and build there.

When you look at published studies about populations, the most important part of the article is who is funding the study. If it is a regulatory agency, then perhaps the article should be read with some degree of skepticism. So much of what we believe is what we are told to believe. To quote Socrates, I know that I know nothing. Screamin Reels! RiverDoc


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

boatnut said:


> dang, kev,,,,thought i had that copyrighted, LOL


Actually, I think I just violated Krustydawgs trademark but I could be wrong. 

Don't worry. My "pose" is getting ripped off by all the east siders...let them have there fun they only catch fish for 2 months out of the year anyways and they will soon be silent


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

K gonefishin said:


> Don't worry. My "pose" is getting ripped off by all the east siders...let them have there fun they only catch fish for 2 months out of the year anyways and they will soon be silent


Not if we trailer up and head west


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

K gonefishin said:


> Actually, I think I just violated Krustydawgs trademark but I could be wrong.
> 
> Don't worry. My "pose" is getting ripped off by all the east siders...let them have there fun they only catch fish for 2 months out of the year anyways and they will soon be silent


i dont get it?? after your PM to me where i could clearly tell the pose thing was bothering you, you just throw more fuel onto that fire why?

i dont know about anyone else that fishes over here on the east side of the lake, but i was catching walleye in march and im positive ill be pulling pigs off cleveland at night this fall. thats more than 2 months


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

K gonefishin said:


> Actually, I think I just violated Krustydawgs trademark but I could be wrong.
> 
> Don't worry. My "pose" is getting ripped off by all the east siders...let them have there fun they only catch fish for 2 months out of the year anyways and they will soon be silent


I'm trying to make sense out of the "pose" comment. 

did you mean - possee	- a male possum that has been hit by a moving vehicle, and removed from the road, to be taken home for supper for your family..

or "posse"- your crew, your hommies, a group of friends, people who may or may not have your back

or "posee"-A person who is obsessed with hunting down "posers" in an attempt to make themselves look cool and "real." 

or "pose" -A particular way of standing or sitting, usually adopted for effect or in order to be photographed, painted, or drawn.

just trying to clarify, you gangsta' ninja!


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## topstroke (Aug 3, 2008)

now k gone i thought we already settled who was the one doin the imitatin maahaaaaaaahaaaa only two months maaahaaaaaaaa team 40 +talk about beatn a dead horse


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## buck.eyehunter (May 27, 2007)

It does not matter when we keep them. but I personally dont keep them in prespawners in the spring (exept tourneys) cause a month or week or what ever they will dump all there eggs so that being said... everybody has there own ideas. If all the stars line up like 2003 where good again for awhile. some people never fish the islands in the spring and dont care if they close the season but if they did they would! my 3 cents mike


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

I promised myself I'd stay out of these discussions, but what the he l l I lied to myself LOL I'm just really glad that the decisions will be made by professionals who actually have some information rather than by the usual knee jerkers on fishing sites


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

mike,
best 3 cents i ever heard


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## Gepetto (Sep 23, 2009)

Socrates knew more than he let on. That what made him Socrates.


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## wakina (May 30, 2007)

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/discuss/index.php?topic=1337.0

This is the latest up date posted today 09/13/2010.


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## ErieAngler (Apr 15, 2006)

I caught 5 eyes Friday perch fishing just south of Kelleys that were between 5 and 7 inches long. Thats a first for me in 20 some years. With all the throw backs this year I have to think that the trawling results may not be the most accurate - which would be consistent with Travis Hartman's presentations I believe. Anyhow, it was good to see the small fish, specially in those numbers.


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