# 2014-2015 Deer Hunters Must Read This!



## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

Lot's of people have been asking me questions that I just couldn't answer. Well the information has been made public now so here you go...

Everything you wanted to know about the next deer season. Assuming the Wildlife Council passes everything of course:
http://outdoorswithfrischkorn.blogspot.com/2014/02/new-ohio-isnt-playing-around-with-new.html

We'll see you at the Open House Meetings in March!


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

ODNR Press Release:
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/New...r-Proposed-Deer-Hunting-Dates-Bag-Limits.aspx


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## thecritter (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm glad the state realized the need to drop the tags. Hunters enjoy deer hunting for the simple fact they like to see deer when hunting. There are select areas where the deer heard is OK and other areas where it is very very low. If these proposed changes take place I think it will benefit all of us. 

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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Why in the heck would they change opening day of muzzleloader season. These guys change stuff just to change it. How will that create more hunting opportunity? Now you have to use another vacation day for the opening day of muzzle season. These guys must have went to Colorado on vacation and inhaled way too much.


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

bobk said:


> Why in the heck would they change opening day of muzzleloader season. These guys change stuff just to change it. How will that create more hunting opportunity? Now you have to piss away another vacation day for the opening day of muzzle season. These guys must have went to Colorado on vacation and inhaled way too much.


Have a peek at the calendar bobk. Season opens up on Friday the day after New Years. Most people will not have to work that day.

Assuming most people get the weekends off, they'll get 3 days for that season that don't require any vacation days. I hope it works out for you!


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

Whoops! Now I see it. There is a typo in the article. Thursday is January 1st. ML season is actually January 2,3,4,5 which is Friday through Monday.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Dan, I didn't look at the calendar. I just don't agree with changing the opening day. Starting the season on Saturday like they have for who knows how long just makes sense to me. I'm sure others that have to work weekends would be happy to see the change. 


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

Now that I think about it, the day after New Years may not have been the best choice.

On one hand, there might be a whole bunch of unrested gun toting hangovers wandering the woods. In which case that is a bad thing for human safety but likely a good thing for the deer. The terminal cases will likely find a place to nap and not endanger anyone however.

On the other hand, the gun toting hangovers might skip or not be able to muster an opening day hunt. Which is still good for the deer.

The youth will still be on their winter school break which can make it a good thing for them unless there are masses of gun toting hangovers wandering the woods.

I just can't decide.


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## Fish_Heads (Jun 2, 2008)

Explain something to me please:

If you live in say a 3 deer county & are allowed no more than one antlerless permit, doesn't that limit you to just 2 deer ?? 

(one with your first buck/doe deer tag, and one with the additional antlerless tag )

What am I missing ?


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

The way I read it you can't use the extra permit once gun season starts. Basically a use it or lose it. Shoot the doe before gun season or it's gone. 


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

There are conditions that specify which county the antlerless tag can be used in.

Does this help?


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## Kenlow1 (Jul 14, 2012)

Not sure what the state is thinking with the no antlerless permits in counties like Coshocton, Guernsey, Muskingum,etc where you can still kill 4 deer but antlerless permits are not valid? You can still shoot 4 does or 3 does and 1 buck, but now it will cost you $9.00 more per deer ($24.00 for a tag vs the old and now defunct $15.00 antlerless tag). The state will make an extra $36.00 for 4- deer per hunter. I think if someone really wants to shoot 4-deer in one of those counties mentioned, they will bite the bullet and pay the extra $$$. Why not just limit those counties to 2-deer if the kill was down so much this past year. I know Coshocton was down quite a bit. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## OSU Sportsman (Sep 26, 2011)

Those counties you mentioned are a 3 deer county. I'm ok with that. Even though it will cost an extra $9 per tag, I think it still beats buying an antlerless tag and having to eat it if you don't use it by gun season.


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

Kenlow1 said:


> Not sure what the state is thinking with the no antlerless permits in counties like Coshocton, Guernsey, Muskingum,etc where you can still kill 4 deer but antlerless permits are not valid? You can still shoot 4 does or 3 does and 1 buck, but now it will cost you $9.00 more per deer ($24.00 for a tag vs the old and now defunct $15.00 antlerless tag). The state will make an extra $36.00 for 4- deer per hunter. I think if someone really wants to shoot 4-deer in one of those counties mentioned, they will bite the bullet and pay the extra $$$. Why not just limit those counties to 2-deer if the kill was down so much this past year. I know Coshocton was down quite a bit. Just my 2 cents worth.


They need more money. They've lost funds due to reduced overall tag sales the last several years. With a 13% drop in harvest they know they're going to lose more next year.


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## Bazzin05 (Feb 2, 2011)

bobk said:


> Dan, I didn't look at the calendar. I just don't agree with changing the opening day. Starting the season on Saturday like they have for who knows how long just makes sense to me. I'm sure others that have to work weekends would be happy to see the change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't muzzleloader season used to be Thursday through Sunday about 4-5 years ago.


And I was noticing the loss of the "cheaper" antlerless tags. Figured they needed more money in the budget.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

That could be Bazzin. I checked back as far as the 2009 season and it was still an opening day of Saturday. 



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## tOSUSteve (May 30, 2007)

Fish_Heads said:


> Explain something to me please:
> 
> If you live in say a 3 deer county & are allowed no more than one antlerless permit, doesn't that limit you to just 2 deer ??
> 
> ...


The third deer would have to be tagged with an either-sex permit


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## Kenlow1 (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks osu sportsman for correcting me, yes those 3 counties i mentioned have a 3 deer limit with no anterless permits available. That means you would need to purchase 3 either sex permits @ $24.00 each-the $15.00 tags are not available in the light green colored areas of the state. In the long run it will just cost an extra $9.00 more per tag, but they will be good for all the seasons. My point was these were the counties that had 13 to 14% total decrease. If the state has hit the target levels in these counties, i would think thet would limit them to only a 2-deer limit? Sorry for the mix-up, had a senior moment


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

Bazzin05 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't muzzleloader season used to be Thursday through Sunday about 4-5 years ago.
> 
> 
> And I was noticing the loss of the "cheaper" antlerless tags. Figured they needed more money in the budget.


It used to be december 27th-30th no matter how they fell on the calendar back in the day. This was also before muzzleloaders got popular. Now everyone seems to have one.


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## Fish_Heads (Jun 2, 2008)

tOSUSteve said:


> The third deer would have to be tagged with an either-sex permit


Ahh the classic state move it's all in the numbers...$$$$$

"As a 70 year old contractor friend of mine would say, It's a revenue game they're playin', & they're gonna win.

Pay it & move on !"


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## Lil' Rob (Apr 11, 2004)

Flathead76 said:


> It used to be December 27th-30th no matter how they fell on the calendar back in the day. This was also before muzzleloaders got popular. Now everyone seems to have one.


I have saved the regulation books since the 2001/2002 season. From that season through the 2008/2009 season, the statewide muzzleloader season was fixed at Dec. 27 thru the 30th.


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Your right fish heads. Resistance is futile.


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## GFP (Jul 12, 2012)

It is interesting how closely the four deer counties mimic the former urban zones.


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## Angler ss (May 15, 2008)

Lowering the number of deer taken from a county like coshocton that is near the list of top deer kill counties every year, this year 6,270 is a great idea to protect the herd. If your looking to protect the herd why would they then increase the number of deer a hunter can take in a county like mine ERIE to three. We only killed 760 deer this year. We have a very small herd. I feel as if they are going to try and over bag in counties like mine to off set the loss of the deer that won't be taken in the high kill counties next year do to the lower tag limits. Erie seen a solid drop in deer numbers when it went from a one deer to a two deer county about 5 years ago,what will happen if we go to 3 deer county


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## Bonemann (Jan 28, 2008)

Angler ss said:


> Lowering the number of deer taken from a county like coshocton that is near the list of top deer kill counties every year, this year 6,270 is a great idea to protect the herd. If your looking to protect the herd why would they then increase the number of deer a hunter can take in a county like mine ERIE to three. We only killed 760 deer this year. We have a very small herd. I feel as if they are going to try and over bag in counties like mine to off set the loss of the deer that won't be taken in the high kill counties next year do to the lower tag limits. Erie seen a solid drop in deer numbers when it went from a one deer to a two deer county about 5 years ago,what will happen if we go to 3 deer county


The state thinks that there are too many deer there ! And since they couldn't get enough people to travel there to kill deer, they decided to let the folks (that are already there) kill more deer each.

Jefferson County has lost the cheap antler less permits but we can still harvest 3 deer. That makes no sense other than to increase their money.

Oh well they make the rules,all I can do is play by them !!!


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## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

Bonemann said:


> The state thinks that there are too many deer there ! And since they couldn't get enough people to travel there to kill deer, they decided to let the folks (that are already there) kill more deer each.
> 
> Jefferson County has lost the cheap antler less permits but we can still harvest 3 deer. That makes no sense other than to increase their money.
> 
> Oh well they make the rules,all I can do is play by them !!!


all we can do is play by them, but all a lot of people will do is write a different county down on the tag and call that sucker in. The more confusing they make it the more creative tagging will take place. In my home county, (morrow) we can take 3 but not with an antlerless so they can extract more money out of us. If you want to kill less, LOWER THE LIMIT, dont do this crap. My dad always used to say its better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are ignorant than to open it and remove all doubt. Well we all suspected the deer tag policy of the odnr was all about the money they just put this out and removed all doubt.


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## James30 (Apr 13, 2004)

my 2 cents, the state has lost revenue because they are selling less tags because less hunters are buying them. Here is one reason that I see.. With the new tagging/check system its very easy to be dishonest unlike in the past. Ex. I buy my $24 either sex tag, go and shoot a deer, fill out the tag and attach it to the deer, tag is used up when I check my deer. I need to buy another $24 tag to go out hunting again. New tag system Ex. I buy my $24 tag and print it up online and then shoot a deer. Use a piece of scrap paper and make up my tag and attach it to the deer, drag the deer out and get it home. I process the deer myself and decide I don't need to check my deer since I didn't have to write on my tag, no need to buy a new $24 tag.... thus lost money to the state and inaccurate deer harvest numbers. This new check system is ripe for fraud and I truly don't like it.


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman (May 7, 2007)

Angler ss said:


> \why would they then increase the number of deer a hunter can take in a county like mine ERIE to three. We only killed 760 deer this year. We have a very small herd. I feel as if they are going to try and over bag in counties like mine to off set the loss of the deer that won't be taken in the high kill counties next year do to the lower tag limits. Erie seen a solid drop in deer numbers when it went from a one deer to a two deer county about 5 years ago,what will happen if we go to 3 deer county


Exactly I think this is just plain STUPID! Ottawa kills around 400 deer for the entire year and they want to bump it to three!?!? Are they out of their mind. The only time I have seen a lot of deer in my normal spots was when it was one deer in Ottawa county. I believe low number counties like ours shouldn't even be more than one!


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## martinconcrete (Feb 4, 2006)

Just because the state sets bag limits, doesnt mean that you have to fill them. I have hunted Harrison and Jefferson Counties since the early 90's. I have witnessed the deer explosion when every one rushed to East Central Ohio to fill their tags, and now the deer are gone and so are alot of the hunters. I thought it was just our area because of the large influx of out of town hunters, but now I see its statewide.

What needs to be done now is to micro manage the land. Each hunting group should set their own bag limits on where they hunt based on the herd in their area. No one knows the deer herd better than the people hunting the area. This year we only took 3 does off our our land. If I don't see any change in the next year, then I may lower it this upcoming year and make the does off limits.

Obviously something has happened and everyone has their own theories as to why it happened. There will always be poaching and there will always be farmers shooting them off their combines. This has been going on forever. 

The one thing that can reverse this problem, I believe, is if we as hunters protect our herd. So what if you don't kill 3 deer next year. Give the herd a break for a few years and the numbers will come back.


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## idontknow316 (Mar 21, 2008)

Fish_Heads said:


> Explain something to me please:
> 
> If you live in say a 3 deer county & are allowed no more than one antlerless permit, doesn't that limit you to just 2 deer ??
> 
> ...


One antlerless tag, and two either sex tags. Still only one buck though.

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## thecritter (Jul 11, 2012)

The increase in tags has come at the same time the coyote population has exploded. Ten years ago I never saw coyotes or heard them in my area (Ashtabula county). Now you can hear them quite often and see a few every year hunting. I guarantee each one kills at least one fawn in birthing season. There is also decreasing our heard more than people realize. You should see how fast they find the baits at my snare sites. More people need to start snaring coyotes! Not the entire problem but with increased bag limits and coyotes, the heard just can't catch back up......

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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

buckeye dan said:


> Whoops! Now I see it. There is a typo in the article. Thursday is January 1st. ML season is actually January 2,3,4,5 which is Friday through Monday.





Fish_Heads said:


> Explain something to me please:
> 
> If you live in say a 3 deer county & are allowed no more than one antlerless permit, doesn't that limit you to just 2 deer ??
> 
> ...


Here's the deal as I see it, and I will try to illustrate by comparing Ohio to another state. For many years, as long as they've had a season I think, PA had started their bear hunting season on a Monday, and it was a 3 day season, Mon, Tue, Wed. As the bear population continued to increase they realized they needed to do something, so they now start the season on Saturday. For a lot of guys this might amount to a one day season since PA doesn't have Sunday hunting, but at least they could get out for opening day. The bear harvest went up, closer to the target numbers they were hoping for. Of course, they have extended seasons, especially in the SE part of the state where bears are becoming a nuisance, like New Jersey, to try to control the population. 

As far as deer in Ohio go, the situation is the reverse. Due to liberalized bag limits, the deer herd has been whacked pretty hard in some areas. Maybe starting the season on Friday is a way to basically "eliminate" one day of the ML season, when many, if not most, of the does you see are pregnant! The de facto opening day becomes, for a lot of folks, Saturday, and the season is thus reduced to 3 days. I don't know about anybody else, but I never got the day after New Years Day off unless it was on the weekend! 

As far as the antlerless tag deal goes, although many will say otherwise, it's a way of restricting the harvest of does. Fish_Heads, per your example, it's like this. If you live in a 3 deer county, and you harvest an antlered deer and tag it with your "special" deer permit, then harvest an antlerless deer and tag it accordingly, prior to the start of gun season, and you want to harvest another antlerless deer, you would have to buy another "special" deer permit. In other words, the more expensive deer permit! And some folks just won't do that. The difference in tag prices is interesting. Pricing the "buck tag" at 24 dollars and the "doe tag" at 15 dollars seems to lead to the mindset that does are cheap. We can whack as many of them as we want!


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

buckeyebowman said:


> Here's the deal as I see it, and I will try to illustrate by comparing Ohio to another state. For many years, as long as they've had a season I think, PA had started their bear hunting season on a Monday, and it was a 3 day season, Mon, Tue, Wed. As the bear population continued to increase they realized they needed to do something, so they now start the season on Saturday. For a lot of guys this might amount to a one day season since PA doesn't have Sunday hunting, but at least they could get out for opening day. The bear harvest went up, closer to the target numbers they were hoping for. Of course, they have extended seasons, especially in the SE part of the state where bears are becoming a nuisance, like New Jersey, to try to control the population.
> 
> As far as deer in Ohio go, the situation is the reverse. Due to liberalized bag limits, the deer herd has been whacked pretty hard in some areas. Maybe starting the season on Friday is a way to basically "eliminate" one day of the ML season, when many, if not most, of the does you see are pregnant! The de facto opening day becomes, for a lot of folks, Saturday, and the season is thus reduced to 3 days. I don't know about anybody else, but I never got the day after New Years Day off unless it was on the weekend!
> 
> As far as the antlerless tag deal goes, although many will say otherwise, it's a way of restricting the harvest of does. Fish_Heads, per your example, it's like this. If you live in a 3 deer county, and you harvest an antlered deer and tag it with your "special" deer permit, then harvest an antlerless deer and tag it accordingly, prior to the start of gun season, and you want to harvest another antlerless deer, you would have to buy another "special" deer permit. In other words, the more expensive deer permit! And some folks just won't do that. The difference in tag prices is interesting. Pricing the "buck tag" at 24 dollars and the "doe tag" at 15 dollars seems to lead to the mindset that does are cheap. We can whack as many of them as we want!


Actually, the percentage of hunters that harvest 3 deer is rather small already. The state is banking on it that the percentage will remain the same. That way, they will get more revenue. $18 isn't going to discourage the hunters who are willing to buy a 2nd and 3rd tag. 

It's the same thing with the proposed increase in out of state licenses. It's a relatively small increase so participation won't drop, but revenue will go up.

Add in the PCR proposal which will generate funds to ODNR through Pittman Robertson due to increased gun and ammo sales and the writing is on the wall.

I said ODNR would only make changes when they felt it in their pocket book. They had declining tag sales for 3 years in a row, and I presume this season just ended will make a 4th consecutive drop. However, instead of measures that are based on conservation, they are measures to generate more revenue. Slick of old Tonk and the Farm Bureau/ODNR if you ask me.


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## Hatchetman (Apr 13, 2004)

Speaking of a senior moment....If you qualify for the 1/2 price license you also qualify for the 1/2 price tags. Rather than $24.00 per it is $12.00 per tag....


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

crittergitter said:


> Actually, the percentage of hunters that harvest 3 deer is rather small already.
> The state is banking on it that the percentage will remain the same. That way, they will get more revenue. $18 isn't going to discourage the hunters who are willing to buy a 2nd and 3rd tag.
> 
> It's the same thing with the proposed increase in out of state licenses. It's a relatively small increase so participation won't drop, but revenue will go up.
> ...


Yes, I've heard and read this statistic many times before. Yet, somebody whacked a whole lot of deer in Ohio! If that stat is true, then the state might as well reduce the bag limit to two deer no matter where you hunt in the state and it would make no measurable difference. Yet, that is exactly the action that many are calling for! However, having just typed that, I realize that I'm falling prey to something I posted about somewhere else in this forum. And that is thinking about things on a "statewide" basis rather than a "localized" one. It's hard to achieve an equanimity of outcome considering the varied habitat types that present themselves in the Buckeye state.

As far as raising additional revenue goes, what else would you expect? The ODNR is, above all, a bureaucracy. I once heard that a bureaucracy, once created, becomes like a living organism. That is it seeks to survive, grow, and perpetuate it's species. The food of bureaucracies is money! 




Hatchetman said:


> Speaking of a senior moment....If you qualify for the 1/2 price license you also qualify for the 1/2 price tags. Rather than $24.00 per it is $12.00 per tag....


Hmmm! I haven't quite hit that point yet, but I'm getting there! At what age does that kick in? It'll probably happen after my legs give out!


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