# unusual carp?



## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

A while back I was fishing the lmr for cat and had put out one rod with sweet corn. I cought several common carp but one was a little different. It had all the features of a common carp except the mouth. It had a jaw like a drum. The jaw was under the head like a bottom feeder. The top of the jaw was out over the bottom jaw. I did not really pay much attention at the time but it has been bothering me. Has any one seen this before or have any Ideas what it may have been. Can drum cross with common carp?? The fish was in the 3-4 lb range. Thanks S


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## PAYARA (Apr 7, 2004)

Sounds like a Buffalo Sucker?Were the eyes jet black?


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## CoolWater (Apr 11, 2004)

Quillback or Buffalo would be my guess. The smallmouth buffalo has the mouth the way you describe where it is pointed down.

Go to:
www.roughfish.com and go to species tab, go to buffalo and then smallmouth buffalo.


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## The Kernel (Jul 11, 2005)

Ive caught what sounds like one of these from Springfield lake, when I netted it I thought it was a common, and everything about it was identcal..but when I tried to take the hook out I found that its tiny little mouth (about the size of a grain of maize, it was around five pounds or so) was on its underside. Very strange looking fish...

It wasn't a typical sucker...I caught some of those on the Allegheny and they were quite different.


Hey thanks for posting that link.


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## PAYARA (Apr 7, 2004)

Mark,You caught a deformed carp!Theres a few in North like
that.


I caught a few mysety fish of my own about 6 yrs ago from Silver 
Creek.At first look it appeard to be a common(about 6lbs) but the 
mouth was under turned (just like a buffalo)and contained 2 small,
stubby barbles.Eyes were really placed farther up on the head
(as on a buffalo).Scale pattern and color was the same as a 
common.Another odd thing about these fish was their tails,they 
were huge!Double what they should be!But not a 'fancy' tail.It 
just looked to belong to a much larger common.I origanly though 
just a deformed common,but when I caught another one that 
was identical I started wondering?I haven't seen anymore since.
Possibly a carp/goldfish hybrid?or something?


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

Quillback sucker:









Golden Redhorse Sucker:


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## The Kernel (Jul 11, 2005)

PAYARA said:


> Mark,You caught a deformed carp!Theres a few in North like
> that.



Greg

The mouth was so symetrical that it looked like it should be like it was if you know what I mean...and if there is similar fish in North then perhaps it is some weird strain of carp??? Its mouth looked more like its anus than a typical carp mouth...set at least a couple of inches behind the nose.

I also caught a silver 'rough' fish from Springfield that a local told me was a shad...it was about two pounds in weight and I think someone else told me they don't grow that big??? It was more like an English roach...which is very very similar to a golden shiner but they don't grow that big here (the UK record roach is around 4lb...)???


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## PAYARA (Apr 7, 2004)

Mark,I know exactly what you mean about the mouths.The fish
Iam refering to in North are exactly as you discribed.Could possibly
be hybrids?or could possibly be a 'birth' defect(sort of like the bent
or curved spines).I have always figured it a deformity?

Also,Springfield is known for BIG shad.(Most of the local lakes are).I
seen some dead in the spring over there that were pretty good sized!
You should see the size of the shad in Turkeyfoot or Silver Creek!
They seriously resemble BIG roach.Harry caught 2 over at SC one
day last summer that took his 1 ot hooks!Each must have went 
2.5lbs and 15+in.Just massive!I have had some similar size over 
at SC and Turkeyfoot.Its too bad they die so easily and hard to
enduce a take(on purpose)as they might be pretty 'sporting' with
light tackle.Just as roach in Europe.BTW-most people do NOT
know(or believe for that matter) that the gizzard shad can
reach lengths of 24in in extreme cases!


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

I looked at the link and could not find any thing that looked like this fish. The mouth had a jaw bone type rather that a sucker type mouth. you could see the hinge in the jaw. It was really odd when i look back on it. I remember thinking what the #@!$ is wrong with her mouth. It was pooring down rain and so she went back quick so I could back under cover. I know the spot has lots of carp holding there so maybe I can get another one this spring and get a picture. If this helps the fish were holding at the bottom of the pool just ahead of the next riffle in water maybe 1 to 2 ft deep. Cought shortly after dark. Between 2 of us we landed maybe a dozen fish and lost as many (ul 4lb test) biggest was maybe 5 lbs and only the one with the freakish mouth. Thanks for the input. S


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## TimJC (Apr 6, 2004)

There are smallmouth buffalo in your neck of the woods on the LMR. I caught one last year in Foster, while attempting to catch carp. If the fish looked like a white carp with black eyes and no barbels it was probably a buffalo.


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## PAYARA (Apr 7, 2004)

Sevenx-Did you look closely at the Big Mouth Buffalo?or a long
shot could the fish have possibly been a Big Head Carp?It is
possible?There in the OH river so its possible that one made it
in the LMR?


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## PAYARA (Apr 7, 2004)

I guess your discription would rule out Big Heads  


Has to be a Buff!


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

Tim it may be it did have black eye's. the mouth did have barbles it was kind of narrow front to back and maybe an inch long on a 3-4lb fish. It looked closer to a bone fish than anything freshwater i have seen. The head was more rounded than a bone fish but the mouth was close in compisition. Will carp inter breed with other species?? maybe the buffalo and a common cross or drum common cross. Thanks S


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## PAYARA (Apr 7, 2004)

Its imposible for carp to hybridize with any of the fish you listed


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

thanks guys for you help I guess buffalo is the likley winner. For now thats what I will call it and see if I can't get one this year and confirm. Thanks again. S


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

Smallmouth Buffalo are in most streams/rivers that run into the Ohio river.










*RANGE AND HABITAT: *Found in the Ohio River and the lower reaches of its major tributaries. Prefers deep, clearer waters with moderate current.

*IDENTIFICATION: *A deep-bodied, thick fish, with a long continuous dorsal fin. Usually dark gray or bronze-gray, sometimes with a slight bluish overcast. Fins have no spines. The relatively small mouth is on the bottom of the head.

*FISHING TIPS: *Anglers do not frequently catch this species due to its small mouth, even though the smallmouth buffalo is very abundant in the Ohio River. Most are taken accidentally while fishing live bait on the bottom. Commercial fishermen in the lower Ohio and Mississippi rivers harvest thousands of smallmouth, bigmouth, and black buffalo; they are reported to be a fine food fish.

Scott


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

More good info.
If you want to know where a certain species can be found in Ohio's waters, check here:

http://oh.water.usgs.gov/ohgap/fish.htm

Scott


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## TimJC (Apr 6, 2004)

Unfortunately smallmouth buffalo don't have barbels. Other key buffalo traits are more slime and smell than a carp (but most of us carpers get used to the smell of carp as it is). But, As I said, there are buffalo in the Maineville stretch of the LMR.

Carp slime... The smell of victory.


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