# LMR lure selection



## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Killing some time on a cold winter night. After talking to Garrett about a section of the LMR I got to thinking and here are my thoughts on lure selection for the LMR...

I think that one reason river fishermen dont painstakingly match the hatch with exact copies of the forage that bass eat is that rivers are so daggone complicated. In the LMR over a hundred different species of fish have been recorded and most of them are small fishes that could serve as bass food. And the abundance of these can vary wildly over the 110 mile plus length of the river. But since the Little Miami is designated a National Wild and Scenic River it has been studied rather extensively. Sampling surveys over the years have shown definate trends that can help you with your lure selection depending on where you are fishing in the river. Many minnow species like the central stoneroller and the various darters and shiners are found throughout the river but the population densities of each are different in different sections of river. In the lower LMR, say from Loveland/Milford to the Ohio River, shiner species such as the emerald shiner greatly outnumber other small fishes. So what does this mean? Well, shiners have a completely different shape and profile than other small fishes. They are long with a thin profile and look slightly flat being taller than they are across and silvery in color. In other words alot like classic floater diver minnow plugs such as the Rapala or AC Shiner. In the lower river you might want to fish soft plastics with this profile too such as the Mister Twister Sassy Shad. Shiners also spend alot of time in open water and close to the surface so topwaters like the pop-r are also great where shiners are common. Also the closer to the Ohio the more shad you will find. In the middle reaches of the LMR you begin to find higher and higher numbers of darters in every survey till they become the most common small fishes found on some stretches. Darters are very very colorful and on average smaller than shiner species. Darters also spend most of their time under and around rocks in swifter sections of the river. This is why rock cover becomes more important as you progress upstream and sandy gravely cover less so. Also riffles produce better in the middle LMR than the upper or lower LMR. Lures in brighter patterns with a bit of red or orange produce well in the middle LMR. Instead of a silver rapala like you threw in the lower LMR, a slightly rounder bait like a smaller rebel minnow in a "rainbow trout" pattern might be a better place to start. At the top of the middle LMR, say from Fort Ancient to the Narrows, the number of darters and shiners equals out somewhat with more plain minnows like the stoneroller than anything else. Here it becomes an anything goes affair dependant more on where you are fishing, a riffle might be full of darters but next to a pool with shiners, chubs and minnows in it. In this stretch carrying a wide lure selection can really pay off. Further upstream the river becomes a minnow factory with high numbers of darters and minnows such as the stoneroller. In some pools the number of stonerollers is staggering, well into the thousands. Here generic minnow lures like inline spinners and metalflake grubs really shine. These are just general guidelines and you might find smallies feeding on darters in the lower LMR and on shiners in the middle LMR but it gives you somewhere to start. The particular spot you are fishing is just as important as the section of river. If your fishing a riffle you might want to fish a bottom hugging smaller brighter lure while a bigger silvery plug might be the ticket in a big pool.

Some common small fishes of the LMR...

Central Stoneroller
The most common small fish in the LMR, Stonerollers are stout brownish gray minnows with short, rounded fins. The snout is bluntly rounded and projects beyond the nearly horizontal mouth. Their mouth is always white in color. Males during breeding season have some orange and black on fins, large pointed bumbs on their head, and orange eyes.
Stonerollers spawn in spring between March and the end of May. Males dig spawning beds just above or below riffles and aggressively chase other males away. The eggs are sticky and become lodged in the gravel and the nests abandoned prior to hatching. While they can reach seven inches most stonerollers are around three or four inches in length. Stonerollers feed by scraping algae from rocks on the riverbottom. The LMR is also home to other minnow species such as the tonguetied, suckermouthed, bluntnosed, fathead, and bullhead minnows. These are some of the most common small fishes in the pools of the river. 

Shiners

The LMR is home to something like fifteen or sixteen different species of shiners. Shiners typically have a long thin profile and look slightly flat being taller than they are across. Shiners as a whole tend to hang out in open water like pools and often high in the water column. Shiners typically eat tiny insects and other various aquatic invertebrates, and terrestrial insects that fall in the water or fly just above the surface. Often when it is still and wind is not blowing you can see them dimpling the surface feeding on tiny insects like midges. Most shiners are three to five inches long but a few can reach up to ten inches in length.

Darters
The LMR is home to around a dozen different species of darters. Darters run two to four inches in length for the most part and are among the most colorfull fish you will ever see. When breeding most darters become very bright with fins edged in orange or red and bright blues as well as spots or bands of bright colors on their bodies. Darter species on the LMR include the greenside, rainbow, fantail, least, johnny, and orangethroat darters as well as the logperch, varigate, banded, channel, blackside and slenderhead darters plus maybe an additional one or two that I may be missing. Most darters inhabit swifter riffles in the LMR often hiding under flat rocks in the swift current. Darters eat mostly small crustaceans and aquatic insect larvae. 

Sculpins and Madtoms

The LMR is home to five species of madtoms as well as the mottled sculpin. Like the darters these guys spend most of their time glued to the bottom of swifter riffles and runs or at least right on the edge of such places. Ferocious predators they are almost like tiny three to five or six inch long shovelheads, eating whatever they can fit in their mouths. More camoflaged than darters they are usually colored to blend in with their surroundings. 

Chubs

The LMR has around seven or eight species of chubs. Chubs mostly have a thich rounded body and can grow fairly large, up to a foot in some species though most are around five or six inches in length. Chubs eat small invertabrates and insects but large ones can even take small crayfish. Chubs grow big enough to be caught on hook and line and are often caught as shovelhead bait.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

pretty informative osg..thanks for takin the time to post that..i actually didnt realize thetre were THAT many species there!


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## E_Lin (Jun 30, 2011)

That's some great stuff. Gives me more confidence since I intend to spend more time fishing the LMR this year, if I can possibly avoid the bears, bigfoots and frogman.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

E_Lin said:


> if I can possibly avoid the bears, bigfoots and frogman.


IMPOSSIBLE! 


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## E_Lin (Jun 30, 2011)

Matulemj said:


> IMPOSSIBLE!


 *Great. *

Bears and Bigfoot on the LMR, dead bodies and parts of bodies in the GMR.
It is getting so that a man cannot wet a line without fearing for his life and/or his sanity. Woe to a poor novice fisherman. Woe! :crying:


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

Good post OSG. I still wonder about colors like firetiger though (although in the tropics it could be used to imitate a peacock bass haha). 


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## Mason52 (Aug 21, 2009)

One thing that anyone that fishes the LMR might consider is that muskies have been stocked into Caesars Creek starting in 1998 and are stocked annually. These fish do get through the dam in limited numbers. I have caught muskies that were in the creek below the dam in the gorge area and know that there have been some very impressive fish caught in the LMR. I have never really targeted them in the river, but have to believe that it's possible that there are some nice fish in there to be had. I have many times thought about fishing the river when it's to hot to fish the lake and may try to fish it some this Summer and see what kind of areas I can locate that have some of the river muskies that are surly there. I have actually heard of one fish over 50 inches long coming from the river. One would have to have a heavy rod and good sized reel to land a large muskie in the river. As far as lures a 3/4 oz to 1 oz spinner bait would be good and I know several people that fish the rivers in KY for muskies and that is one of their number one lures. So if you in the mood to try for something different you might consider that or just take a larger rod n reel and a few large lures along and when you feel lucky give that a shot.. Just a thought


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

montagc said:


> What about craws? Do you fish craw patterns at all?
> 
> Rebel Lure Co.'s bottom line hangs in the balance, ya know...


I almost dont want to get into crayfish because I'm going to part ways with 95% of you on this. First off they are very important as smallie food. So important its almost impossible to overstate their importance. That being said heres why I hardly ever imitate them! Even though I'm constantly fishing for smallmouth that are feeding on them. First off, pick a day in June. Then there are really only two sizes of crayfish in the river as far as a smallmouth is concerned. Great big ones left over from previous years and ones hatched this year. The old ones may vary in size but to a smallmouth they are all the same size...too damn big. Every study I've seen says that smallmouth are constantly selecting small crayfish and leaving the big ones alone. Or if they take a big one they circle around it a while or pick it up and blow it out several times till they get it facing tail first. Several studies suggest that the very biggest smallmouth are the most selective for size. Ok so that leaves me that years crayfish. In midsummer that years crayfish reach a size that smallmouth love. In one study in Wisconsin crayfish were 14 percent of food volume in May but a whopping 83 percent from July to September. So after July if you catch a smallie he's probably looking for a craw. So heres my problem. Smallmouth arent selective about minnows in the LMR, they come in all shapes, colors, and sizes so they cant key completely on just one. But young of the year craws are all the same size, the same color, almost exactly. And this size changes constantly. In their first year crayfish molt something like ten or eleven times because they are growing so fast. So every craw looks the same, is the same shade at the same time in that hole and every smallmouth knows it. So I cop out. If a smallmouth is nosing around looking for a craw and a tasty minnow imitation like a three inch grub swims along he's not going to pass it by.

Ok so why is the rebel craw such a great lure?

Look at these two pictures...










Big craws out of the LMR










Little craw out of the LMR

Now lets be honest does a rebel craw look anything like either one of those?
Does it act like them?
I think a rebel craw is a crankbait that is just the right size for catching alot of fish in the river and it doesn't run too deep like something like a model A bomber does. It wobbles along at a good depth to fish below and above riffles and its a good size so it catches fish. Heck I fish one alot. I just dont really think I'm imitating a crawfish. Its generic fish food I'm imitating.

When I'm bouncing a grub in the rocks or hopping a marabou jig along the bottom or fishing a suspending crankbait just off the bottom, thats when I feel like I'm fishing for smallmouth feeding on craws. Smallmouth are opportunists and theres too many minnow species for them to become selective so I'm not going to throw something like a really detailed plastic craw at them because thats the one and only thing in the river they just might be selective about. He might hit my big living rubber jig with a plastic craw trailer but he's going to really look it over and he might be just a bit afraid of it and suck it in and blow it out a couple times first but the same fish is going to confidently swim over and thump my smoke metalflake grub without a second thought. Like I said I'm going against the grain here but I dont try to imitate craws in the LMR when lure fishing. I think alot of the small dark jigs like marabou jigs or little living rubber jigs or even wooleybuggers the bass thinks is something else yummy like a hellgrammite in addition to a craw. The nice thing about fishing is people can look at things completely differently and both still be right some of the time.


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## fisherFL (Oct 23, 2012)

What times of year would you use say a big minnow imitating soft plastic and a small one?


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## Legend killer (Apr 20, 2011)

Mason52 said:


> One thing that anyone that fishes the LMR might consider is that muskies have been stocked into Caesars Creek starting in 1998 and are stocked annually. These fish do get through the dam in limited numbers. I have caught muskies that were in the creek below the dam in the gorge area and know that there have been some very impressive fish caught in the LMR. I have never really targeted them in the river, but have to believe that it's possible that there are some nice fish in there to be had. I have many times thought about fishing the river when it's to hot to fish the lake and may try to fish it some this Summer and see what kind of areas I can locate that have some of the river muskies that are surly there. I have actually heard of one fish over 50 inches long coming from the river. One would have to have a heavy rod and good sized reel to land a large muskie in the river. As far as lures a 3/4 oz to 1 oz spinner bait would be good and I know several people that fish the rivers in KY for muskies and that is one of their number one lures. So if you in the mood to try for something different you might consider that or just take a larger rod n reel and a few large lures along and when you feel lucky give that a shot.. Just a thought


After mortality, people taking fish, etc there is probably 0.5 muskie per acre @ CC. To be able to target muskie in a unnatural habitat such as the lmr is finding a needle in the haystack.


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## zuelkek (Jun 8, 2011)

OSG, what about tubes? Guy at Bass Pro told me that the common wisdom is that bass are taking them for craws, and those pumpkin green tubes have a high reputation on the LMR from what I gather. I had a couple days last July when I was getting hits on 80% of my casts with a pumpkin green tube. I lie regularly about fishing, but not this time. Hookup was a problem that day, but I only tied one on for the first time last summer and I'm still figuring them out. Thing is, they don't look at all like crayfish, though in water that's less than crystal clear, I can see where the bass wouldn't be asking a lot of delicate questions. Maybe I'm just showing my ignorance, but smallies never strike me as finicky as trout, which do most definitely key in on a particular food source. (Once on a river in Colorado, cutthroats were slamming mayflies all around me, and ignoring my offering. I caught a mayfly, found a single beat up old fly in my fly wallet that matched it, and I suddenly got very busy.) I guess maybe I've never had that kind of experience with smallies, which seem so much more aggressive and pugnacious, less effete and picky.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

zuelkek said:


> I had a couple days last July when I was getting hits on 80% of my casts with a pumpkin green tube. Hookup was a problem that day, but I only tied one on for the first time last summer and I'm still figuring them out. .


Tubes are super, you can fish em in all kinds of places like grass and woody cover. But in the LMR I feel a smallmouth is going to confidently take my grub and I'm going to hook him. I dont want to get all kinds of hits and not hook them. In 90 percent of the LMR the best places to smallmouth fish dont require you to texas rig something weedless to fish them. I think in the LMR if someone catches ten bass on a tube that means he would have caught fourteen on a grub provided it was matched to a jighead that was appropriate for that spot. Like everything in fishing somedays that will be completely wrong but over the course of a summer I think it will hold up. At least for me. Now im really going to get an argument because everyone loves tubes in the LMR but next time try a three inch grub on an open jighead the same color as whatever tube your throwing texas rigged and see if you dont get more hookups. 
You said "I guess maybe I've never had that kind of experience with smallies, which seem so much more aggressive and pugnacious, less effete
and picky." By your own logic then the same sort of bait ( a small soft plastic grub or tube ) swimed on a jig head is going to hook more bass. And if its swimming along on a jighead its imitating a minnow not a crayfish whether its a tube or a grub.


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## laynhardwood (Dec 27, 2009)

Just something to think about I river fish northern Ohio alot and in spring the huge Erie smallies travel up river to spawn I catch them on all kinds of lures but once it gets tough the best lure I have is a jig/grub or a jackall finesse worm the 4.8 and 5.8 both work the 4.8 is a little better 


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

Nice post, very informative. For down south, the primary forage is gizzard shad in the fall, but in spring, we've been seeing a good amount of skipjack shad. It's pretty awesome to watch these little (3-5") guys whacking shad fry in the spring, and bigger (5-10") ones seem to be the favorite food of big hybrids/stripers.

As far as the ohio special, I think that in terms of action, it might be interpreted by fish brains like an escaping crawfish, herky jerky and hugging the bottom. I've never seen a fish that wobbled anything like it, but really, it probably just looks like something alive that fish might want to eat. 

I'm all for matching the hatch in certain conditions, but I've also seen guys nail gobs of pompano down in Florida on brighly colored lumps of lead with hooks in them (http://www.docsgoofyjigs.com/Pages/default.aspx). If there was a hatch of these things, I'd be running for the hills...


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> I almost dont want to get into crayfish because I'm going to part ways with 95% of you on this. First off they are very important as smallie food. So important its almost impossible to overstate their importance. That being said heres why I hardly ever imitate them! Even though I'm constantly fishing for smallmouth that are feeding on them. First off, pick a day in June. Then there are really only two sizes of crayfish in the river as far as a smallmouth is concerned. Great big ones left over from previous years and ones hatched this year. The old ones may vary in size but to a smallmouth they are all the same size...too damn big. Every study I've seen says that smallmouth are constantly selecting small crayfish and leaving the big ones alone. Or if they take a big one they circle around it a while or pick it up and blow it out several times till they get it facing tail first. Several studies suggest that the very biggest smallmouth are the most selective for size. Ok so that leaves me that years crayfish. In midsummer that years crayfish reach a size that smallmouth love. In one study in Wisconsin crayfish were 14 percent of food volume in May but a whopping 83 percent from July to September. So after July if you catch a smallie he's probably looking for a craw. So heres my problem. Smallmouth arent selective about minnows in the LMR, they come in all shapes, colors, and sizes so they cant key completely on just one. But young of the year craws are all the same size, the same color, almost exactly. And this size changes constantly. In their first year crayfish molt something like ten or eleven times because they are growing so fast. So every craw looks the same, is the same shade at the same time in that hole and every smallmouth knows it. So I cop out. If a smallmouth is nosing around looking for a craw and a tasty minnow imitation like a three inch grub swims along he's not going to pass it by.
> 
> Ok so why is the rebel craw such a great lure?
> 
> ...


osg..youre right..weve parted ways on the crawfish theory..i catch em and use em every summer..tiny ones or huge ones...the smallies gobble em up!
I will agree with the fact that they will pick up and spit out the bigger ones several times first..but they will no doubt eat them. i like to mainly fish artificial baits as well..but when the goin gets tough for a bite..i can ALWAYS count on catching a live craw and hookin up with fish


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Fishlandr75 said:


> osg..youre right..weve parted ways on the crawfish theory..i catch em and use em every summer..tiny ones or huge ones...the smallies gobble em up!
> I will agree with the fact that they will pick up and spit out the bigger ones several times first..but they will no doubt eat them. i like to mainly fish artificial baits as well..but when the goin gets tough for a bite..i can ALWAYS count on catching a live craw and hookin up with fish


Hey i never said not to use LIVE crayfish, to me that makes perfect sense. I said throwing a plastic one aint as good as using a grub or a swim bait like a plastic shad.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

nitsud said:


> I'm all for matching the hatch in certain conditions, but I've also seen guys nail gobs of pompano down in Florida on brighly colored lumps of lead with hooks in them (http://www.docsgoofyjigs.com/Pages/default.aspx). If there was a hatch of these things, I'd be running for the hills...


I have no idea what a saugeye thinks when it hits a neon orange jig instead of a yellow/chartruese one either...


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

oldstinkyguy said:


> I have no idea what a saugeye thinks when it hits a neon orange jig instead of a yellow/chartruese one either...


"Hmmmm, what's that thing. Better check it out. Let's see, how am I going to do that? I know, I'll try to eat it!

Owowow, wtf! This isn't food at all!"


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> Hey i never said not to use LIVE crayfish, to me that makes perfect sense. I said throwing a plastic one aint as good as using a grub or a swim bait like a plastic shad.


gotcha....i misread that..i agree too..ive used the YUM plastic craw molds..they do "ok"...not anywhere compared to a tube or curly tailed grub


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

In the spring before those baby crayfish get big enough to become serious bass food I think that some of the bigger insects play a larger part in the diet of bass than most people realise. Especially that eight to twelve inch bass that is just your "average" smallie in the river. Hellgrammites, dragonfly nymphs, some caddisfly larvae all grow big enough to provide food for smallmouth. Ive done very well at times with my fly rod throwing a dark colored hellgrammite fly in the LMR and Todds Fork in early to mid spring. Also alot of those midges you see in swirling swarms over the river play a big indirect part. Several minnows key on those and are actively feeding on them. Several times Ive caught bass on minnow plugs fished right on the surface in a slow, soft bottomed pool that looks like it shouldn't hold bass. Most times there have been swarms of tiny bugs in clouds over the water. And every now and again I'll fish a small dry fly to catch some of the longeared sunfish in the river, well just because thet are so gorgeous. I'm always surprised when a ten or eleven inch smallie hits my #12 dry fly though I shouldn't be by now.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

I remember fishing on lake st Claire as a kid, that place was just lousy with mayflies and many times when you would be bringing in a smallmouth it would cough up a big pile of mayflies. Rest assured, they do take advantage of insect hatches.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Thats where that new fly rod of yours comes in Kingofamberly.




















What exactly is the hellgrammite? You hear everybody talking about them for smallmouth but in my experience most fishermen have never seen one. Well, this guy is actually the flat many legged larvae of the ferocious looking Dobson fly. Both the larvae and the adults can pinch the heck outta you so handle them with care. Actually its only the female adults that can hurt you. Just another example of how fishing is like life. Hellgrammites spend up to three years underwater in the larvae form before crawling out on land to become a Dobson fly. They only live like a week as an adult. 
The larvae lives under rocks and leaves on the stream bottom where they are miniature monsters devouring smaller insects. I cant imagine the horror of being a little bug and having one of these monsters crawl over and grab me. I'm always a bit afraid of them when I seine one myself. But to the bass they are like french fries, just with lots of little legs and pincers.

When drifting hellgie nymphs, I use a floating fly line, long leader, weighted nymph, and strike indicators. I like the little pinch on foam strike indicators for this. Ill set one indicator about a quarter of the length of the leader up from the leader butt and then another about halfway. Then as the fly tumbles into deeper water, I can first watch the one indicator then the other as the fly sinks. You want the fly tumbling along as deep as you can get it. preferably just ticking bottom every now and then. Set the hook on any pauses or jerks during your drift. Use a short cast, as short as you can get away with without scaring the fish. (Its a trade off longer casts wont scare fish but you miss most of your strikes.) Cast upstream and across in the run right below a riffle. With only twenty feet or less of line out, you can follow the line with your rod lifting the rod to keep as much slack out of the line as possible without dragging the fly as it sweeps down and past you. Ill use Twistons to get the fly down if I have to. Twistons are little lead strips packaged in little cardboard books like matches. They make casting awfull but your only casting a few feet. (In really swift water in can become the old chuck and duck.)



I generally tie my own hellgie flies, just generic black wooley buggers but with something like swiss straw tied along the back. Examples of better known flies you can buy I'd imitate a hellgie with are the EZ Mite by Orvis, Woolly Bugger, Murray's Hellgrammite, Delaware River Hellgrammite, bitch creek bug, Michael Verduin's Mighty Mite Hellgrammite pattern, or Braided Stone Fly Crawler by Percy's flies (worlds best prices on flies BTW) all in as big a size as you can throw on whatever rod you have.


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## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

I've been fishing successfully for most of my 65 years. The best rule that I have learned is "Fish where they are" and then secondly match what they're feeding on.

If they are there in concentrations it doesn't matter, they become competitive and will hit darned near anything. If they are busting shad, obviously something shiney works, BUT if they are feeding agressively, again, it really doesn't matter, they will hit anything they can get ahold of. It is only when there are few fish around and when they are not aggressive, that being selective with color, size, and lure type becomes important.


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## Gumbers (Oct 1, 2012)

Good idea to revive this thread! In other news... Surprised you didn't catch me latching onto that 12oz Busch Light! 

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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Awww Man...this thread? I actually got hate mail from the cult of the rebel craw guys over this thread.





montagc said:


> Here's a theory. Those goofy colors work on those bottom dwelling saugs because the bottom dwelling darters sometimes look like this:


 But all those darters are in spawning colors. (awesome great pics BTW, thanks) I saugfish in the dead of winter when the smallie fishing stops. Who knows maybe they remember from chomping on them all spring and summer. Dandrews and I have been kicking around studies that might indicate there are way more darters and madtoms in the rivers than electroshocking surveys show. When the dnr seined places they had electroshocked there were lots more found by seining. I guess hiding in the rocks shields them somewhat.


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

oldstinkyguy said:


> Awww Man...this thread? I actually got hate mail from the cult of the rebel craw guys over this thread.


Personally, I find them to be over rated, too small and predominately dink catchers ( not that they won't catch a nice bass or lots of gills). I don't get it at all and it's not for lack of trying or ignorance. 
You won't need to worry about me emptying WalMarts shelves of somes precious rebel Craws! As a matter of fact, I'll put my Manns Baby One Minus up against any of y'all's rebels any day of the week.
Hate mail huh?
OSG is the last person anyone should be sending such mail to. It really speaks to ones ignorance. You should be embarrassed, if not, rest assured, many if us here are for you.

Do you know what I am saying?


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

[ame]http://youtu.be/OMlyUSouFAY[/ame]

This video will show why Jewel Sculpins work so well in the river


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

oldstinkyguy said:


> I have no idea what a saugeye thinks when it hits a neon orange jig instead of a yellow/chartruese one either...



Now remember...colors we see don't look the same way in water, we can guess what they are seeing based on the types of rods and cones in their eyes, but unless one of us is reincarnated, we're kinda doing the educated guess thing!
Also the colors of prey that they see in the water are different then the colors we see when we take the prey out of the water.
Many of the prey species have an iridesence that we don't see unless under the perfect light.
Very interesting to reseach "colors that fish see", "how colors change in various water", "fish colors and adaptation", "how light effects/affects colors in water", etc...helps kinda put things in our perspective!


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> Now remember...colors we see don't look the same way in water, we can guess what they are seeing based on the types of rods and cones in their eyes, but unless one of us is reincarnated, we're kinda doing the educated guess thing!
> Also the colors of prey that they see in the water are different then the colors we see when we take the prey out of the water.
> Many of the prey species have an iridesence that we don't see unless under the perfect light.
> Very interesting to reseach "colors that fish see", "how colors change in various water", "fish colors and adaptation", "how light effects/affects colors in water", etc...helps kinda put things in our perspective!


I remember you posting some really cool stuff on color and fish a couple years ago but I cant find it.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

That was just this fall, when I was bored and couldn't get out to fish because of football practice etc.....I'll do some searching over Christmas break for the original stuff and post some more research.




oldstinkyguy said:


> I remember you posting some really cool stuff on color and fish a couple years ago but I cant find it.


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## Cat Mangler (Mar 25, 2012)

I've seen mention of the OSG OH Special rant but had not seen this thread until now. Not much ranting but more decisive edumacating! Until this past year, I had not used a r craw but rather a storm thunder craw in bright translucent orange and green. Even farther from reality then the rebel yet still produced. I had maintained with my cousin(who swears by em) that they don't imitate the action of a craw since craws jet off in a streamline pattern and in no way sway horizontally. So I guess I'm not alone in my feelings of un-genuine action imitation. 

That being said, and in agreement with much of what's been stated, if they're hungry enough; anything will get ya a bass. Even a hot dog or cigarette butt. But I doubt that smallie is checking out a hot dog thinking "hey, check that big old fat craw fish". I'm thinking more along the lines of "hey, that fits in my mouth". 

Sent from my V8000_USA_Cricket using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## gibson330usa (May 15, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> http://youtu.be/OMlyUSouFAY
> 
> This video will show why Jewel Sculpins work so well in the river


I caught a lot of SMBs with the Jewel Sculpin this past summer but most of them were pretty small. My best fish were with green pumpkin tubes and the dreaded Rebel Craw. For awhile there in the heat of the summer I could use the Sculpin to find where the fish were then tie on a tube or craw and get into some bigger ones.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

gibson330usa said:


> I caught a lot of SMBs with the Jewel Sculpin this past summer but most of them were pretty small. My best fish were with green pumpkin tubes and the dreaded Rebel Craw. For awhile there in the heat of the summer I could use the Sculpin to find where the fish were then tie on a tube or craw and get into some bigger ones.


Rather than argue about fish size I have lure selection question. Looking at your posts this year it looks like we fish a lot of the same stretches of the LMR. So what lures do you carry and fish on the river?


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## gibson330usa (May 15, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> Rather than argue about fish size I have lure selection question. Looking at your posts this year it looks like we fish a lot of the same stretches of the LMR. So what lures do you carry and fish on the river?


I caught more on the Sculpin this year than anything else, I don't mind catching the smaller ones.  thanks for the suggestion at one of the seminars. Tubes and Rebel Craws are my other favorites. I also carry some grubs, Rebel and Rapala minnows. Each time I go out I usually try to use something new that I picked up myself or something I've read about in other reports on OGF such as flukes, PopRs, Lazy Ikes, jigs, worms etc.


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## Dandrews (Oct 10, 2010)

Aquatic worms, insect larva and similar things are on the fish menu too. Some of these things stay relatively active during the winter. Aquatic vegetation has disappeared for the most part and these things might be easier for a fish to find; I don&#8217;t know specifics and I couldn&#8217;t tell you what color some of these things are but it might help explain some of the odd colors that catch saugs during the winter. 

As far as the rebel craw goes, I think it has a great wobble but I don&#8217;t think it necessarily looks like a crawdad to a fish. It might just as easily resemble a central stoneroller or some sort of chub&#8230;a fish with a stout body and swims with a fairly wide wobble in a riffle area. Unless it&#8217;s in super clear water I don&#8217;t think a bass or what-have-you is likely to notice that the tail looks like claws. Lure catches a fisherman for one reason and then catches a fish for another.

I&#8217;ve also done well with the sculpin jigs; they resemble madtoms and tadpoles too, I had that revelation when a fish coughed up a few tadpoles for me. 



oldstinkyguy said:


> Awww Man...this thread? I actually got hate mail from the cult of the rebel craw guys over this thread.


Getting upset with someone&#8217;s lure choice is kind of goofy, don&#8217;t ya think? Cabin fever can do weird things to a fisherman. 
...not directed at anyone specific...


co-angler said:


> OSG is the last person anyone should be sending such mail to.


&#8230;But then again, ya just don&#8217;t go &#8216;round talkin&#8217; &#8216;bout a guy&#8217;s craw&#8230;I guess.
...not directed at anyone specific...


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