# Pay Lakes in Ohio



## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

I used to read in the older fishing papers about the pay lakes in central/southern Ohio. Full of big cats,partying and camping. What are they like? What's your experience there? Are they fun places to have a few (many) drinks and catch some super big cats and pass out in the tent?

I have zero experience with these pay lakes except for some trout at a farm and Lake Hodgeson if that even counts as a real pay lake.

Just trying to hear a few stories and what the vibes are like at these places.

(Side note, I recall something about operation Mudcat or of the like,busting the pay lakes many of years ago and people selling big blues and flats to these lakes)


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

Participation trophies >pay pay lakes. It took 7 years for me to establish a single big cat spot (Let alone figuring out many other factors and techniques after that)and see little challenge in going to an undersized pond to catch mostly poached fish over and over. I can’t imagine what kind of crowd shows up there.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

geoffoquinn said:


> Participation trophies >pay pay lakes. It took 7 years for me to establish a single big cat spot (Let alone figuring out many other factors and techniques after that)and see little challenge in going to an undersized pond to catch mostly poached fish over and over. I can’t imagine what kind of crowd shows up there.


Thanks for the feedback but I dont think you understand this post or what it was about. I want to point out that it's not about speculation of the character of whom goes there,participation trophies or finding "wild spots",although I would imagine people who want to catch big catfish,families, kids and other would attend,truly I dont know the vibes and that's why I'm asking. 
I do appreciate the knowledge you dropped about them though.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

I have never fished them, but have friends who have and enjoy the experience. It is kind of a canned hunt thing, but they do provide access to some big fish. Most have contest which are fun. I know they vary a lot and some are just trashy mud holes while others put a lot of effort into providing good fish and sites. I used to know some of the commercial netters that sold them fish, but I have lost contact with them or they retired. I disagree on the poached fish, all the ones I know bought from netters on the Ohio River and out of Ky. I'm sure there are some who bought illegal fish, but most don't. There was a sting about 15 years ago but it was a group of guys peddling to the pay lakes. I think it was maybe a pay lake owner that turned them in. They were netting closed waters,I think.


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## 1basshunter (Mar 27, 2011)

I think you’re treading on thin ice pay lakes are very sore subject around here


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

We had 4 or 5 pay lakes around the Youngstown area several years ago and i really liked them.
Now there was no camping or partying at these lakes, just fishing, and the fishing was very good. I also have no idea where the fish came from.
These lake were owned by The Ohio Water Service back then which is now Aqua Ohio.
They stopped the fishing for all who did not own property on the lake.
There is still a charity Tournament at Evans lake to this day. 
If i remember correctly, Evans is over 500 acres.


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

If the DNR would truly manage the fishery you wouldn’t need to patronize pay lakes. A pay lake would starve in New York, as with most states with good wildlife management. One more point I will spend $5.00 on a fish sandwich, some people want to subsidize their income on our wild habitat.


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## bowhunter1487 (Aug 13, 2014)

Bullet Bob said:


> If the DNR would truly manage the fishery you wouldn’t need to patronize pay lakes. A pay lake would starve in New York, as with most states with good wildlife management. One more point I will spend $5.00 on a fish sandwich, some people want to subsidize their income on our wild habitat.


So we're only supposed to buy the fish we eat? How virtuous! Where do they make the fish at the grocery store?


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

Karl Wolf said:


> Thanks for the feedback but I dont think you understand this post or what it was about. I want to point out that it's not about speculation of the character of whom goes there,participation trophies or finding "wild spots",although I would imagine people who want to catch big catfish,families, kids and other would attend,truly I dont know the vibes and that's why I'm asking.
> I do appreciate the knowledge you dropped about them though.


Fair question I hear it’s people who gamble on big fish and some people bringing kids out. I’m flawed and have a real hard time shutting up.


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

bowhunter1487 said:


> So we're only supposed to buy the fish we eat? How virtuous! Where do they make the fish at the grocery store?


No that’s was not my point, catch and release was the message. Not catch All you can eat and freeze the rest. Also most game fish are not actually for sale on a open market.


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## Bvil (Sep 28, 2019)

I'd rather have fish from my freezer than frozen fish from the store. Seriously, what is the difference?


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## burnsj5 (Jan 30, 2014)

Karl Wolf said:


> I used to read in the older fishing papers about the pay lakes in central/southern Ohio. Full of big cats,partying and camping. What are they like? What's your experience there? Are they fun places to have a few (many) drinks and catch some super big cats and pass out in the tent?
> 
> I have zero experience with these pay lakes except for some trout at a farm and Lake Hodgeson if that even counts as a real pay lake.
> 
> ...


I would deter folks from attending most pay lakes as those big cats are coming from the Ohio River. When I fish for blues it's painful to see the big hoop nets out there knowing they are taking some very old, trophy blues to sit in a pond and get caught repeatedly until they die. I see the argument for older folks who can't get around well anymore but just feel it's a misuse of resources and wrong the way they are stocked with big flatheads and blues. In the absence of those I would not have any issue with them.


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

Bvil said:


> I'd rather have fish from my freezer than frozen fish from the store. Seriously, what is the difference?


The difference is Consevation and that’s why without the proper management by DNR Ohio is filled with refrigerated fish with about 200 pounds of game fish. So pay lakes become the norm to enjoy the sport.


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## pawcat (Oct 24, 2011)

Catfish lives matter!!!! Say NO to pay lakes!!!


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## burnsj5 (Jan 30, 2014)

Bullet Bob said:


> The difference is Consevation and that’s why without the proper management by DNR Ohio is filled with refrigerated fish with about 200 pounds of game fish. So pay lakes become the norm to enjoy the sport.


Lots there in regards to the conservation and management piece. When you think about inland lakes and how many are just man made reservoirs built and damned for flood control, then stocked by the state, our lakes are just large ponds to some degree. Which does make management important.
I do think many have the mentality that just because you can keep and freeze a limit everyday doesnt mean you have to. If it's within the regs then that's their choice but that's where sportsmanship starts to come into play. I think it's mentality thing, I can remember when I would go to mogadore with my dad as a kid and catch tons of monster redears and bluegills off beds. Fill our basket everytime just to fillet and put in the freezer. Looking back how many guys did that and it clearly wasn't good for the fishery.


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

burnsj5 said:


> Lots there in regards to the conservation and management piece. When you think about inland lakes and how many are just man made reservoirs built and damned for flood control, then stocked by the state, our lakes are just large ponds to some degree. Which does make management important.
> I do think many have the mentality that just because you can keep and freeze a limit everyday doesnt mean you have to. If it's within the regs then that's their choice but that's where sportsmanship starts to come into play. I think it's mentality thing, I can remember when I would go to mogadore with my dad as a kid and catch tons of monster redears and bluegills off beds. Fill our basket everytime just to fillet and put in the freezer. Looking back how many guys did that and it clearly wasn't good for the fishery.


Great point and Really eloquently said, that’s why our DNR needs to step up. I travel at least 200 miles minimum to fish, in other great managed states.. Maybe that’s why I catch and release on average for last 20 years a hundred fish a day. I have not killed a bass in over 30 years, because I love to actually catch them, not fish all day to catch 5. To each his own but I can tell you that a fishery can be devastated by people’s freezers. Ohio is living proof!!


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

I went t a couple times years years and years ago because a guy I knew like to go and invited me I did not enjoy it most of the people that was there was interested in partying they said the lakes were stocked each week with trout but never seen anyone catch anything except a buzz


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## Bvil (Sep 28, 2019)

If you take your family out for a walleye or perch dinner it doesn't matter if it came from the end of your line or out of a big net.
I agree that smaller lakes, ponds and reservoirs can be quickly impacted by overfishing but there are environmental factors that can come into play as well.
A fellow that I used to work with told me about a large family working in shifts catching crappie at Findlay #2 res. I doubt that he had proof but he suggested they were supplying a local restaurant.
BTW: I have about as much interest in paylakes as going to a pasture for a boar hunt.


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## bustedrod (May 13, 2015)

my brother and i would head down to the ohio river and set up camp on the river and stay all weekend, had a blast. would hammer some big fish. we put minnow traps out for bait, we would also put a safety line on our rods so they didnt get drug in the river while ya wasnt looking hahahah


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## loves2fishinohio (Apr 14, 2011)

A friend of mine and her husband once relied on pay lake tournies to supplement their income. Seriously. I don't know if they still do such things.

As a kid, my dad fished pay lakes often. He never caught anything to speak of, and it was always a miserable hot night sleeping in the back of the car while he watched his bobbers.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

I didn't know "pay lakes" were so controversial to many of you guys.
As someone else stated above,I would say that all of our man made resivours are pay lakes also as 99.9999999999% of all our wipers are stocked, saugeye are stocked,steelhead are stocked,musky are stocked,channel cats are stocked,walleye are stocked. In fact, fishing in Ohio would truly be horrible without all of us chipping in for stocking our inland lakes and the rivers with trout.

I read about those pine and Evan's lakes before,heard they had huge pike but arent open to the public anymore.

I was hoping some of those pay lakes available were more than a couple acre holes,seemed like they could have been fun but I'm not really interested in fishing a 2 acre hole shoulder to shoulder.

Thanks for letting me know what they are like!


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## bowhunter1487 (Aug 13, 2014)

I didn't really realize Ohioans eat bass (they taste like the last 3 letters) but that all adds up and explains a lot about the tone of the aforementioned C&R post.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

bowhunter1487 said:


> I didn't really realize Ohioans eat bass (they taste like the last 3 letters) but that all adds up and explains a lot about the tone of the aforementioned C&R post.


I might keep a few small bass when ice fishing,I believe the little guys taste just fine, dont care much for the flavor of big big ones.

I believe people eat bass all over the country,some folks eat big ones.
Some folks eat catfish, some folks even eat carp. I once had a young polish trainee that says it was custom to eat carp during Christmas in Poland. 

I guess everyone likes what they like.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Karl Wolf said:


> I didn't know "pay lakes" were so controversial to many of you guys.
> As someone else stated above,I would say that all of our man made resivours are pay lakes also as 99.9999999999% of all our wipers are stocked, saugeye are stocked,steelhead are stocked,musky are stocked,channel cats are stocked,walleye are stocked. In fact, fishing in Ohio would truly be horrible without all of us chipping in for stocking our inland lakes and the rivers with trout.
> 
> I read about those pine and Evan's lakes before,heard they had huge pike but arent open to the public anymore.
> ...


Those two lakes (PINE AND EVANS) were known for the pike, but i was a bass fisherman. You could have some really good days bass 'n if you knew what you were doing.
As far as trophys and prizes, never. Only the United Way tourny once a year and i don't believe it's a large amount of money as most goes to the charity.
Both of those lakes are 500 plus acres, so it's not like fish'n in a barrel. Just like any other local lakes around here.
And i don't get the bitch'n, we pay for a license to fish, don't we? So we ALL fish pay lakes.


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## 1basshunter (Mar 27, 2011)




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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

1basshunter said:


> View attachment 369055


Lol


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

What was that bi weekly paper? Ohio fish and field? Something like that. Pre internet it was a great source. I recall that's where I saw all the ads for the pay lakes.


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## MIGHTY (Sep 21, 2013)

This thread has so much potential....


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

Lay it


MIGHTY said:


> This thread has so much potential....


Lay it out big dog.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

<3 conversation about fishing with reasonable and friendly people. Its always wonderful to gain knowledge and share knowledge. I also enjoy a good fishing story.

Truly just trying to get some detailed experiences regarding pay lakes in Ohio and I'm thankful to those of you willing to share that with all of us.


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## MIGHTY (Sep 21, 2013)

Just wait for it...


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## garshark (Aug 23, 2011)

Bullet Bob said:


> If the DNR would truly manage the fishery you wouldn’t need to patronize pay lakes. A pay lake would starve in New York, as with most states with good wildlife management. One more point I will spend $5.00 on a fish sandwich, some people want to subsidize their income on our wild habitat.


I don’t think your right. In New York you need to pay to fish at state parks. To trout fish at 2 of the 3 trout streams around where I go to college it cost 25 dollars and that’s at a state park.


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## Bullet Bob (Mar 31, 2020)

garshark said:


> I don’t think your right. In New York you need to pay to fish at state parks. To trout fish at 2 of the 3 trout streams around where I go to college it cost 25 dollars and that’s at a state park.


Negative try Chataqua lake and some of the Finger Lakes. You might have to pay to access streams or some lakes but it’s not a pay for play and open to a canned fishing trip.


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## basser53 (May 14, 2005)

I have to ask ,what does inquiring about pay lakes ,have to do with people that fill their freezers, or keeping a few fish to eat ?? Karl Wolf just asked a question.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

basser53 said:


> I have to ask ,what does inquiring about pay lakes ,have to do with people that fill their freezers, or keeping a few fish to eat ?? Karl Wolf just asked a question.


Lot of trollers..... Cant do that on a pay lake...


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Let's get this thread rolling… I know several people that are tournament cat fisherman and I also know several people that are very good at cat fishing… And they all have the same stance when it comes to pay lakes. Which is the same one I have… Now just for the sake of not ignorantly judging people or techniques.… I visited several pay lakes in Ohio a few years back… Namely, Catfishermans Paradise, and rainbow lakes... my opinion on my experience… I thought both were disgusting… It's not fishing… It doesn't even feel real... it's a bunch of guys all with the exact same rig, fishing the exact same technique, shoulder to shoulder...No structure, no snags, no real scenery
... and I would like to reply to a comment earlier in the thread regarding "what's the difference in pay lakes and reservoirs given that we all pay for fishing licensesand most fish are stocked anyway"...
The difference is when hybrids and musky, saugeye,etc... are stocked in reservoirs… They literally have access to hundreds, if not thousands of acres of water to freely roam, forage their own food, survive, and grow on their own to trophy sizes. When you have 40 guys standing around a 10 foot deep puddle, and 20 of them catch a 30 pound blue cat or a shovel head in the first hour... and then brag about how good of a fisherman they are… It's disgusting… It's cheap… And it should be illegal… I often dream about catching those big fish from the pay lake, and sneaking them back to the big waterways like the Ohio River where they belong... those poor fish are crammed into that little puddle of a lake and then repeatedly caught until they die… And it's not long before they die…
Pay lakes are a disgusting way to teach kids to be outdoorsman… That's all I have to say about that


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

However, I can understand some situations, like may be a handicapped person, or someone very elderly that could benefit from easy access close to the water… I will also say this, if pay lakes just bought farm raised catfish and stock them… I don't think I would have any problem with it… But the Taking of trophy catfish from larger waterways and putting them pay lakes is horrible

And to the OP, my post may be a rant, but in respecting your question, I did not comment on the type of people that visit pay lakes… I'm not going to comment on that, because I enjoy being a member on OGF.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

9Left said:


> Let's get this thread rolling… I know several people that are tournament cat fisherman and I also know several people that are very good at cat fishing… And they all have the same stance when it comes to pay lakes. Which is the same one I have… Now just for the sake of not ignorantly judging people or techniques.… I visited several pay lakes in Ohio a few years back… Namely, Catfishermans Paradise, and rainbow lakes... my opinion on my experience… I thought both were disgusting… It's not fishing… It doesn't even feel real... it's a bunch of guys all with the exact same rig, fishing the exact same technique, shoulder to shoulder...
> ... and I would like to reply to a comment earlier in the thread regarding "what's the difference in pay lakes and reservoirs given that we all pay for fishing licensesand most fish are stocked anyway"...
> The difference is when hybrids and musky, saugeye,etc... are stocked in reservoirs… They literally have access to hundreds, if not thousands of acres of water to freely roam, forage their own food, survive, and grow on their own to trophy sizes. When you have 40 guys standing around a 10 foot deep puddle, and 20 of them catch a 30 pound blue cat or a shovel head in the first hour... and then brag about how good of a fisherman they are… It's disgusting… It's cheap… And it should be illegal… I often dream about catching those big fish from the pay lake, and sneaking them back to the big waterways like the Ohio River where they belong... those poor fish are crammed into that little puddle of a lake and then repeatedly caught until they die… And it's not long before they die…
> Pay lakes are a disgusting way to teach kids to be outdoorsman… That's all I have to say about that


pretty strong words. I can agree with some of what you say. I completely disagree about the taking kids,they would love to catch big fish easily and trout derbies are fun for kids also. 

Thanks for giving your low down and experiences on those 2 as I recall now those exact 2 names from the ads many years ago and I believe they are the most popular. Must still be popular if they are in operation 25 years later.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Karl Wolf said:


> pretty strong words. I can agree with some of what you say. I completely disagree about the taking kids,they would love to catch big fish easily and trout derbies are fun for kids also.
> 
> Thanks for giving your low down and experiences on those 2 as I recall now those exact 2 names from the ads many years ago and I believe they are the most popular. Must still be popular if they are in operation 25 years later.


OK, I will give you that and agree with you… Stocking them with farm raised trout and having kids catch fish that way would be just fine with me… I wouldn't disagree with that.
Just keep in mind that I am not judging people… I am judging the methods that are used that ultimately end in killing trophy sized catfish


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

9Left said:


> OK, I will give you that and agree with you… Stocking them with farm raised trout and having kids catch fish that way would be just fine with me… I wouldn't disagree with that.
> Just keep in mind that I am not judging people… I am judging the methods that are used that ultimately end in killing trophy sized catfish


Many folks kill and eat trophy size catfish regularly from public waters. I dont judge them. I keep some cats under 3lbs as I dont care for the big ones. Kept a musky once to try it, super gross but I hear some like them. 

Judging folks is really easy from the outside, especially on the internet. 

But if these pay lakes really are just tiny mud holes with shoulder to shoulder, I doubt I'd give them a try just for that reason alone.


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## Evinrude58 (Apr 13, 2011)

I don't do pay lakes but have done a few in the past. Use to be one outside Wadsworth and we would ride our bikes to it. It was maybe 4-5 acres and I don't remember seeing more than a handful of people there any time we went. Seem to remember another up by Medina. Went to one for trout in Germany and it was not fishing. Took 45 minutes to get there and the two of us had our five fish limit in under ten minutes. I am sure there are a few bad ones just like any other business but it isn't right to say all pay lakes are bad. That is like saying all hunters are the same as the guy who just wants a trophy for his wall.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Karl Wolf said:


> Many folks kill and eat trophy size catfish regularly from public waters.


you're exactly right, they do… And here's the difference…
That guy fishing a 5000 acre lake.. he's been there a dozen times… He's tried several times, and maybe failed several times… So he improves his methods, he improves his techniques, he learns about the bait fish in the lake, and learns to catch them on his own, and use them for bait… he's tracked through the woods, learned the shortcuts, possibly even learned about wildlife and the trees… He's learned to strategically place his bait to avoid the snags...Maybe even stumbled across some morel mushrooms in the spring on a lucky day… And then one day it finally all comes together for him and he picks the right spot, the right time, with the right bait, and he catches a trophy catfish… He's earned it…As well as the right to take it home and fry it up and enjoy it

....None of this happens at a Paylake


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

9Left said:


> you're exactly right, they do… And here's the difference…
> That guy fishing a 5000 acre lake.. he's been there a dozen times… He's tried several times, and maybe failed several times… So he improves his methods, he improves his techniques, he learns about the bait fish in the lake, and learns to catch them on his own, and use them for bait… he's tracked through the woods, learned the shortcuts, possibly even learned about wildlife and the trees… He's learned to strategically place his bait to avoid the snags...Maybe even stumbled across some morel mushrooms in the spring on a lucky day… And then one day it finally all comes together for him and he picks the right spot, the right time, with the right bait, and he catches a trophy catfish… He's earned it…As well as the right to take it home and fry it up and enjoy it
> 
> ....None of this happens at a Paylake


The guy going to the pay lake did take the biggest shortcut through the woods.


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

The catfish paylakes are stocked through raping the Ohio River of trophy caliber fish that took years surviving to grow to that size. We fished catfishermans paradise in southern Ohio a few times. Close to Marrietta. Was the filthiest dirtiest place I have ever been. People would take shits in the little huts around the "lake". Giant dead cats floating around and the owners would post pics of the dead cats bragging about it. Trophy pay lakes should be banned.


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## fishdealer04 (Aug 27, 2006)

Karl Wolf said:


> I used to read in the older fishing papers about the pay lakes in central/southern Ohio. Full of big cats,partying and camping. What are they like? What's your experience there? Are they fun places to have a few (many) drinks and catch some super big cats and pass out in the tent?
> 
> I have zero experience with these pay lakes except for some trout at a farm and Lake Hodgeson if that even counts as a real pay lake.
> 
> ...


Good ole paylakes….

First of all there are different types of paylakes. There are some that stock farm raised channel cats, trout, bluegill, bass, etc... I and most people have no problems with those types of paylakes.

The bad paylakes are the ones that list "Trophy Catfish" Why are they bad, well there is no economical way to raise catfish to "trophy size" and the few that might are going to be really expensive to raise. So they resort to putting out hoop nets, gill nets, trot lines, jug lines to catch these fish and then stock the lakes with them. The problem is these are wild caught fish being pulled from there natural habitat to be put in what is normally a small shallow pond, that has minimal food, current, and structure in it. Since it has so little resources and so much pressure on them those fish die, and they die at a pretty alarming rate. So they have to continue to stock the lake over and over multiple times a year. It takes a long time for a catfish to get to "trophy size" (any fish over 20 pounds is what I would consider trophy size). There is no natural spawning of fish in paylakes, some lie and say they stock farm raised trophy fish, others lie and say they stock farm raised channel cats when in reality they are catching them out of rivers and stocking them (who knows what kind of contaminates are in them) I won't even get into the "jars" where they are trying to win money. Then there is snagging of fish when they try to get in the one "deep" hole in the lake.

There are some paylakes that also "juice" the lake by adding copper sulfate to the lakes. This makes the fish want to "bite" by agitating them. What this also does is kill the fish and part of the reason you will see so many sores on fish caught in paylakes.

I fish the Ohio river a lot and can tell you first hand the damage that has been done to the Markland Pool and farther down on the river from commercial fishing to help stock paylakes. I have been a tournament fisherman for 16 years and I am a licensed guide on the Ohio River in Cincinnati. The fishing is starting to get better down there now that there has been tighter enforcement on the commercial fisherman and hopefully it will be banned soon so the river will come back to full potential.

Here is a website that can give you a lot of information on "trophy paylakes"
www.exposingpaylakes.com/

Again a lake that stocks farm raised fish is a great place to go. I understand there are children or mobility impaired people that could benefit from going to paylakes but there are also other opportunities out there.

Sorry if I started to rant and sorry if I got off your topic some but I tried to give you good solid information.


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## Killbuckian (Feb 16, 2020)

Wow, never knew there was so much controversy regarding pay lakes. Didn't know all this that I am just hearing. I only went to one once....maybe 20 yrs ago. I wasn't really interested in keeping any, just wanted to catch something. Not a lot of people there. I went to other side where nobody else was. Hoping to catch a bigger one. I caught 7 or 8 fish, threw them all back. Owner/employee came over and told me I couldn't catch and release...I was "killing fish every time I did it". 

He told me I could only catch x amount of fish. Argued with him that that is not what rules say....they say you get to keep x amount. Another 15 minutes of arguing and I got my money back and left. 

Never went to one again.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

You're not ranting,just sharing info in more than short sound bites. I can understand your opinions about the ethics of the trophy catfish lakes,the way you put it forth.

Long form stories and discussions are the best for everyone.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

Just to keep all information accurate, Ohio does not allow any streams or lakes to be commercial fished out side of Lake Erie and it's bays. None of these fish are coming from Ohio streams and lakes. Kentucky allows it and I think maybe west Va., but I don't know about Indiana. The commercial guys fish all the Ohio because legally Ky owns to the historic low water mark on the Ohio side. From Ohio History connection:In 1792, the federal government determined that Kentucky owned the Ohio River along its border with Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. In essence, the boundary between Kentucky and these three future states would be the *low point of the Ohio River's northernmost bank*.

I am not defending pay lakes, just keeping the facts in the thread. I ran nets with some of the commercial guys, to collect breeders for the hatchery. Most were cooperative and nice guys, but a little rough. I do agree, for a big catfish to be caught in a hoop net and stocked in a pay lake is a slow but assured death. Yet, I know a lot of people enjoy the experience and I am not going to judge them for it. Just like some will pay to sit over a feeder and shoot a deer. Of course the deer isn't in a box.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

I gotta be honest here, guys. After reading the OP i thought of the old Ohio Water Service lakes so many of us grew up on. 
I never even knew of the "catfish" lakes until reading this post.
I agree with what you all are saying, sounds terrible to me. Not only terrible, but highly illegal as well.
To try to explain my first post about the Youngstown pay lakes,
these 5 lakes were all used for different towns water supply, so they were quite clean,
they did stock trout in the spring, but i don't think they stocked bass, however, i may be wrong on that,
these lakes we're all several acres in size with 2 of the 5 exceding 500 acres,
the depths range up to 53 feet in front of the dam at Hamilton,
i would challenge any of you to limit on LM bass at any of these lake if they were still open, it could be done, but not easily,
my friends and i are catch and release on all speices other than certain pan fish and walleye, we never kept anything from any of the 5 lakes,
and lastly, any of you are able to join the United Way tourny at Evans lake for a moderate fee,
If your able, try this charity event, i'm sure you would fall in love with this wonderful pay lake just as i did in my youth.

Sorry, but i had to stand up for these lakes as they were NOTHING near what you guys are talking about. Sorry about getting off your original topic.

P.S; when i started fishing these lakes, a season pass to all 5 lakes was $30. I can't remember for sure, but i believe one could rent a jon boat for a couple bucks a day and row or bring your own motor.
Any guys from my area remember these lakes?


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

Diesel no one is saying anything about those lakes stocked with hatchery raised fish. Tons of lakes pay and public are stocked like that throughout the entire state. The entire thread has been about the catfish lakes stocked with wild fish not farm raised


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## fishdealer04 (Aug 27, 2006)

Southernsaug said:


> Just to keep all information accurate, Ohio does not allow any streams or lakes to be commercial fished out side of Lake Erie and it's bays. None of these fish are coming from Ohio streams and lakes. Kentucky allows it and I think maybe west Va., but I don't know about Indiana. The commercial guys fish all the Ohio because legally Ky owns to the historic low water mark on the Ohio side. From Ohio History connection:In 1792, the federal government determined that Kentucky owned the Ohio River along its border with Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. In essence, the boundary between Kentucky and these three future states would be the *low point of the Ohio River's northernmost bank*.
> 
> I am not defending pay lakes, just keeping the facts in the thread. I ran nets with some of the commercial guys, to collect breeders for the hatchery. Most were cooperative and nice guys, but a little rough. I do agree, for a big catfish to be caught in a hoop net and stocked in a pay lake is a slow but assured death. Yet, I know a lot of people enjoy the experience and I am not going to judge them for it. Just like some will pay to sit over a feeder and shoot a deer. Of course the deer isn't in a box.


You are correct about the commercial fishing being allowed by Kentucky. WV does not allow it that is why that section of river is such a good fishing area since those fish are protected.

Also legally none of the fish are coming from Ohio but there are a lot that are caught and sold to paylakes. Myself and many other people that I know have actually been PM’d on Facebook by paylakes asking to buy fish from us. Of course we always report it but there are others that will easily take the money.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

fishdealer04 said:


> You are correct about the commercial fishing being allowed by Kentucky. WV does not allow it that is why that section of river is such a good fishing area since those fish are protected.
> 
> Also legally none of the fish are coming from Ohio but there are a lot that are caught and sold to paylakes. Myself and many other people that I know have actually been PM’d on Facebook by paylakes asking to buy fish from us. Of course we always report it but there are others that will easily take the money.


Interesting but true?
That's a hefty accusation.
Screenshots?

Forgive me if I dont just take your word for it,the internet is what it is and i could be Hillary Clinton for all you know.
I would also say that an Ohio river catfish guide/tournament man would be in direct competition with trophy catfish pay lakes so you must appreciate the bias involved in your opinions.


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## fishdealer04 (Aug 27, 2006)

Karl Wolf said:


> Interesting but true?
> That's a hefty accusation.
> Screenshots?
> 
> ...


Far from in competition with them. I do just fine. However I have a problem with fish having to suffer and die. I also hate the fact that so many people won’t get the chance to catch that fish in the wild.

However this is one screenshot to appease your theory of making “accusations”. My buddy got this the other day. You should come to some of the catfish meetings in Kentucky and Ohio if you ever get a chance. Pretty eye opening. I scratched off a word but I’m sure you know what it is haha.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

fishdealer04 said:


> Far from in competition with them. I do just fine. However I have a problem with fish having to suffer and die. I also hate the fact that so many people won’t get the chance to catch that fish in the wild.
> 
> However this is one screenshot to appease your theory of making “accusations”. My buddy got this the other day. You should come to some of the catfish meetings in Kentucky and Ohio if you ever get a chance. Pretty eye opening. I scratched off a word but I’m sure you know what it is haha.
> 
> View attachment 369433


That's not much proof there although I do appreciate your time to share that.
I would also continue my view that a place where someone can easily catch a giant cat for a minimal cost is in direct competition against your buisness. 
Some would even say that being a guide/tournament guy is torturing fish until they die,I suppose it depends how far one would take it, asI've been harrassed by anti fishermen before.

I do understand your view points 100% and you're obviously concerned about the health and quality of your local fishery,which is phenomenal. Obviously know much more about these big brutes than I as my biggest flat was by accident and no more than 20lbs.

Also thanks for sharing your opinions about these trophy pay lakes,I believe from what many in here have said and including your info, I'm going to pass on the thought of ever giving them a try.

Thanks buddy.


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

To each there own, but going out on a chartered catfish trip is way different than going to a pay lake. I don’t think that Fishdealer is in competition with pay lakes for his business. Success in fishing anywhere on open public water involves skill sets, local knowledge, scouting, bait catching, boats, etc and isn’t in the same ballpark as a fishing a pay lake.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

Muddy said:


> To each there own, but going out on a chartered catfish trip is way different than going to a pay lake. I don’t think that Fishdealer is in competition with pay lakes for his business.


Of course it's way different, I wouldn't even compare. But some would prefer the easy and cheaper alternative.
I've personally never used a guide and have only been on one ocean charter myself. Never been into guides,tournament fishing of of the like but I can see the appeal. 

I'm glad I got so much info on these particular pay lakes from this thread.


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

Karl Wolf said:


> Of course it's way different, I wouldn't even compare. But some would prefer the easy and cheaper alternative.
> I've personally never used a guide and have only been on one ocean charter myself. Never been into guides,tournament fishing of of the like but I can see the appeal.
> 
> 
> I'm glad I got so much info on these particular pay lakes from this thread.


I researched a bunch of pay lakes after reading this thread. I’ve never been into them, and never will be. I agree with you on guided trips, they aren’t my thing either. I have no problem with people who like pay lakes or guided trips. I’m just a do it yourself kind of guy with everything that I do in life. I like to figure things out myself. It takes time to figure it out, but it’s much more rewarding that way.


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## CoonDawg92 (Jun 1, 2016)

fishdealer04 said:


> Here is a website that can give you a lot of information on "trophy paylakes"
> www.exposingpaylakes.com/


Wow, this is pretty awful.

Growing up in Mississippi my dad and I would sometimes go to a “pay lake” but it was nothing like what is being discussed here.

These were usually people we knew who had a lake stocked from the local hatchery and it was a catch and take home and eat type thing. I remember you would weigh in your catch of catfish before leaving and pay somewhere between 0.75 and 1.25 a pound for your fish (would have been late 70s/early 80s). I remember catching a “giant” 5 pounder one time and dad saying boy your gonna break my wallet. 

That was good times, too bad things have gotten so bad now. Wondered why those type of places weren’t around anymore.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

CoonDawg92 said:


> Wow, this is pretty awful.
> 
> Growing up in Mississippi my dad and I would sometimes go to a “pay lake” but it was nothing like what is being discussed here.
> 
> ...


What you describe is the only experience I've ever had with a pay lake. There was one within a 30 minute drive around the Akron area I went to maybe half a dozen times many years ago to catch some trout and some channel catfish. I believe there still are a few of those kind of lakes around but the one I went to a few times I was told shut down several years ago


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## Steel Cranium (Aug 22, 2005)

Karl Wolf said:


> What you describe is the only experience I've ever had with a pay lake. There was one within a 30 minute drive around the Akron area I went to maybe half a dozen times many years ago to catch some trout and some channel catfish. I believe there still are a few of those kind of lakes around but the one I went to a few times I was told shut down several years ago


This sounds like the Medina fish hatchery. More for catching the trout and eater sized channels than trophy flats or blues. Had its place when I was young since the options for trout were very limited = prior to steelhead stocking and very limited rainbow stocking in the area. Now we have steelhead available from shore for eight or nine months and numerous creek/lake/pond stockings by Medina parks and the Cleveland Metroparks from fall through spring. Paying to catch trout wasn't needed anymore.

I never witnessed the type of "trophy" pay lakes previously mentioned earlier until I moved to Cincinnati. The ones in the northern part of the state seemed to have a different purpose.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

Steel Cranium said:


> This sounds like the Medina fish hatchery. More for catching the trout and eater sized channels than trophy flats or blues. Had its place when I was young since the options for trout were very limited = prior to steelhead stocking and very limited rainbow stocking in the area. Now we have steelhead available from shore for eight or nine months and numerous creek/lake/pond stockings by Medina parks and the Cleveland Metroparks from fall through spring. Paying to catch trout wasn't needed anymore.
> 
> I never witnessed the type of "trophy" pay lakes previously mentioned earlier until I moved to Cincinnati. The ones in the northern part of the state seemed to have a different purpose.


Never fished medina fish hatchey although I had a few buddies that fished it as kids and said it was a really fun place.

The place I fished was "something farms" owned by a farming family. Beautiful piece of property actually with many lakes and plenty of room. Unfortunate that they closed as it was a fun place.

This was all pre steelhead also so the trout stocking in March gave a kid without about something to do.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

$diesel$ said:


> I gotta be honest here, guys. After reading the OP i thought of the old Ohio Water Service lakes so many of us grew up on.
> I never even knew of the "catfish" lakes until reading this post.
> I agree with what you all are saying, sounds terrible to me. Not only terrible, but highly illegal as well.
> To try to explain my first post about the Youngstown pay lakes,
> ...


I fished the five lakes as they were called for years. Correct, you could rent a boat or launch your own. Each lake was very different. It was great to be able to fish local without making a long drive. I fished them in the 80's and early 90's. They were popular long before that. I recall a picture of my grandfather with a stringer of huge bass from the 1950's. I don't belive they stocked anything other than some trout each spring. They were all large enough to have natural reproduction. Much different than a pay "lake" that is just a pond. I miss those lakes.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

You got it,brother.
It was nice to come home from work, hook up and go.
Started there in the early 70's and fished them til they shut them down.
Evans was probably the best bass lake i ever fished. I even paid for the $500.00 pass the last 2 years one could fish them. Thats how much i liked them.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

The place your thinking of was called "Bass Lakes" ran by the Rohr family. It was off of rt585 near Doylestown.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

Lewis said:


> The place your thinking of was called "Bass Lakes" ran by the Rohr family. It was off of rt585 near Doylestown.


Yes,that's the place I'm thinking of


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Bullet Bob said:


> Great point and Really eloquently said, that’s why our DNR needs to step up. I travel at least 200 miles minimum to fish, in other great managed states.. Maybe that’s why I catch and release on average for last 20 years a hundred fish a day. I have not killed a bass in over 30 years, because I love to actually catch them, not fish all day to catch 5. To each his own but I can tell you that a fishery can be devastated by people’s freezers. Ohio is living proof!!


I must be a damn good fisherman then. I catch tons of nice fish in and around columbus.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

Saugeyefisher said:


> I must be a damn good fisherman then. I catch tons of nice fish in and around columbus.


Is alum creek worth a shot? Looks like they have a nice campground I can drag my boat up on shore near. I'd target eyes and skis in September. Seems wooded with a ton of finger covers. I prefer lakes with nice scenery.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Karl Wolf said:


> Is alum creek worth a shot? Looks like they have a nice campground I can drag my boat up on shore near. I'd target eyes and skis


Yes sir! 100% worth the shot. And the campground boatramp puts you right in front of some great muskie and saugeye spots. It's also a good lake for crappies,small mouth,largemouth,and white bass.
If you ever make it there PM me,an I can help a little.


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## Karl Wolf (Apr 26, 2020)

Saugeyefisher said:


> Yes sir! 100% worth the shot. And the campground boatramp puts you right in front of some great muskie and saugeye spots. It's also a good lake for crappies,small mouth,largemouth,and white bass.
> If you ever make it there PM me,an I can help a little.


I'm doing a 4 day camping trip with some friends at pymatuning and I'd like to take my father to a lake we've never fished before. I'm pretty sure alum creek will be the spot,it was between there and Indian but I like to cast for musky so alum it is.

The saugs like jigs with meat or trolling flickers in the fall? The only lake I ever got consistent saugs at is attwood and they love jigs and minnows there.


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