# WARNING on RAGE 2-blade



## Boston30

Embarrased as I am to lose another nice buck with the Rage-2 blade, maybe i can help others learn.

I shoot a 70lb Trykon and religiously practice at 45-50yards. After watching a buck run away with my arrow sticking out of his side last year, i figured "user error" was to blame for this....well not anymore.


Last night, had a clean 30yrd shot at broadside buck while he was feeding in beans. The release was perfect, heard a big smack and buck ran with his head close to the ground, and arrow sticking out his side. I could see that there wasn't much penetration, but the placement was perfect and the way the buck acted I thought he'd be dead before he got to the edge of the field. Head was lowered as he ran towards the woods.

Got dark fast, didn't see blood at impact so went out at daybreak and could not find blood anywhere in the beans. Looked for 3-hours and couldn't find a spot of blood, or the arrow.

How could this be??? And it's not just me. I was with a buddy last year, shooting a Rage and the exact same thing happend with a 20 yard shot. With his Buck, the arrow fell out after 20 yards and he only had 3 inches of penetration. He also shot a doe at 15 yards with a Rage and didn't get a pass though.

The problem is that you just don't get penetration with the Rage. The first deer i killed with them was at 10 yards and it died within 50 yards, but the arrow never exited the other side. 

It seems that the 2" cut is just too large to get through the rib cage and exit the other side. Or it gets deflected. When shooting from a stand(which i always do), this creates a high entry wound, little penetration and no exit for bleeding.

Others have warned about this but I was a big supporter of the RAGE. After experiencing this 2-times, i will never shoot them again.


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## JTRESS

I would have to argue.... 2 blade rage did wonders on my buck on saturday morning.... bled like a stuck pig.... If you have proper shot placement a field point will blow through a deer.. Usually when the arrow is hanging out of them you hit a shoulder.... I know it is easy to blame equipment, but in my experience the Rage 2 blade, 2" cut work awesome.


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## littleking

i use the spitfires, and have had ZERO problems on penetration or blood trail for that matter

love em.

keep looking, im sure he bedded down somewhere

also, we have a deer recovery list to help with searching:

http://www.huntohio.net/index.php?t=msg&th=158


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## Skunkedagain

This is why I went back to Muzzy 3 blades two years ago. Shot spitfires and lost 2 deer because of deflection. I can shoot deer from any angle with Muzzys and they don't deflect. The last two deer I've shot with them were pass throughs and went 4-6 inches into the ground. Neither deer made it 50 yards. PlusI can buy 6 Muzzys for the price of 3 Rage or spitfires.


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## M.Magis

While Id be the last one to stand up for a mechanical head, you havent proven anything. Until you find that deer that you shot perfectly, you cant say the broadhead was at fault. You really need to consider the possibility that your shot wasnt as good as it looked. Way too many people have had success with Rage heads to even suggest they cant penetrate past the ribs. 


> heard a big smack


Very obvious evidence you didn't hit where you thought. You don't hear a "smack" when the arrow hits the chect cavity. Only when it hit's bone.


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## crittergitter

Sounds to me like you hit the shoulder blade. Entry hole is high on the deer so the blood trail may take awhile to develope(if one even does). Also, his body cavity could be filling with the blood if there is no exit hole. I think that could have happened with any broadhead. There are thousands of success stories with the Rage 2 blade. In fact, yours is the first unsuccesful hit that I have heard about with this broadhead. I know Spitfires and other mechanicals have had problems in the past, but the Rage does not have a history of problems, but rather a history of success.

CG


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## truck

How could this be??? And it's not just me. I was with a buddy last year, shooting a Rage and the exact same thing happend with a 20 yard shot. With his Buck, the arrow fell out after 20 yards and he only had 3 inches of penetration. He also shot a doe at 15 yards with a Rage and didn't get a pass though
Wow 20yrds and only 3in of penetration !!!!!


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## H20hound

Hee is an entry of a rage 2 from my buck last year. 29 yard shot from 12 feet up and was a complete pass through. I used crossbow, but damage is still amazing.


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## MuskieMan35

Boston 30- Is it possible that truly you hit the animal good and all, but you simply didn't find the blood trail... the reason I say this is I just got a 13pt- look on here for the "I'd rather be lucky then good" forum.
When that buck took off I had pictured in my mind where he ran away from the alfalfa field and entered the high weed field. WHen I came back an hour later and started to look- we found blood right at the point of penetration but that deer ran easily about 60-80 yds away from where I had pictured him running. My point is- If you hit him good into the rib cage you should of had some sort of release of blood from the chest cavity above the diaphram- but you gotta be diligent and find those specs of blood.

last year on halloween I hit a beautiful 8 pt- he was walking by 10-14yds away, quartering away- I was in a stand 20-25ft up... I shot my muzzy a little bit back (I miscalculated his walking speed and didn't shoot as soon as I should of) But the angle was perfect (so I thought) and it should of zipped through and slashed his front right lung all up and exited... right? WRONG! 
First the deer bounds away after mule kicking and stops and turns around to look at what bit him... I see my freakin arrow hanging out down at a 45 deg angle!! He turns and bounds away as if nothing happened.. I didn't even go look that night- I went out next morning and searched for almost 7 hours... ran out of blood spots- After only 80yds into the thicket. That hunt makes me want to get a camera for my bow so the mystery is gone.. I've always used muzzy cause I've broken more rib bones with them and I shoot them like darts.
Maybe there is a chance that the 2" rage expandables are just too wide and get stopped at the rib cage if the blades don't slice through vertically?


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## BuckEyeBigBuck13

are you sure ur not hitting too far forward and catching sholder


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## Boston30

Thanks to all for the advice and sharing. I guess i was a little harsh on the product. I have had success with the Rage, but since I've seen this happen twice to me and once to a buddy, it just makes me wonder.


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## BigSteve

boston30 I have a good friend who had a very similar experience to you and swears he'll never use rage heads again. However I used rocky mountain snypers for three years and had several pass throughs and massive wounds/bloodtrails. It is 5/8ths less cutting width,but same action.


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## Fishstix

I would guess that you either missed the blood trail or you hit the deer in the shoulder. I have hit a deer in the rib cage and heard a smack. It was a nice 9 point and I knew I hit it, but I instantly thought I hit the shoulder. It turned out to be a perfect shot, but it wasn't a complete pass through. I had the fletching of the arrow still stuck in the deer. This shocked me because I shoot a Horton Legend 175lbs and that thing can really sling an arrow.


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## kruggy1

I shot an 8pt last year with my crossbow, seen the arrow hit him before he ran off. Gave him 45min and went looking for blood and not one drop at all and no arrow. We just happend to find him 150yds away, and when I field dressed him the arrow was inside the cavity along with the blood. By the way it was a lung shot also,so you might have had a similiar situation.


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## elkhtr

My 2Cts.

I have had a few negative experiences with expandables in general. Poor penetration, poor performance, etc.

If things go well (broadside shot, deer is not moving, very good shot placement, etc), the expandables do a good job most of the time.

It is the marginal hits where they tend to underperform. If the deer drops at the sound of the bow, or turns slightly to be quartering away or toward, that is where problems tend to arise with expandables -more so than quality fixed blade heads.

If the broadhead strikes a rib at an angle, or the blades deploy in the same direction of a rib, it can cause a deflection or poor penetration. Because the blades are not supported on expandables, the blades are much more vulnerable to damage and breaking off, causing penetration problems.

Deflected arrows can cause the arrow to strike only one lung, etc. Shot placement is obivously vital, but in the real world, nothing is perfect. Animals move during the shot, wind affects arrow flight, cold muscles prevent perfect form and shot execution, as does the excitement of the moment. It is those circumstances where a better performing broadhead may make all the difference. Penetration should the the 1st consideration after accuracy. 

I really like the WASP Bullet line of broadheads. They have served me well on deer, elk and bears. Tune well, fly well, hold up well, etc...


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## Fishpro

One thing that comes to my mind when I see these type stories is, is your bow tuned? You can practice all day, but if you have bad arrow filght, you're gonna have poor penetration.


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## icefisherman4life

switch to muzzy's ive seen them go straight through shoulder blades. i get a pass through every time.


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## BuckEyeBigBuck13

hey to tell u the truth i dont like the rages because they would always rattle or the blades become loose on me when i put them in my qwiver so i woudl shoot muzzy like the guy below me said or montecs are really nice to .. good luck man i hope u shoot a monster


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## Angler ss

I shot a doe at 18 yards saturday with the Rage broadheads and the deer ran off.I have a 200 pound draw horton crossbow at 18 yards even if I cliped the shoulder I feel a broadhead should still have made it into the kill zone.I am no longer a Rage user as I sold mine on the OGF market place monday.My local bow shop told me that when the Rage lock back there is no support for the blades and if they hit bone the blades will break off.He had a video of test on different broadheads to prove it. I bought muzzy broadheads that guarantee no blade loss.I bought a six pack while I was practiceing with the muzzys my first shot was just over my foam block and hit my 1/2 in plywood back stop the arrow passed clean through the plywood.After a few hours of adjusting my scope and tuneing my arrows I am ready to get back out there we got a whole season left.
Good luck.


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## One Legged Josh

Same Lesson Learned Twice By Me. I Will Never Use Expandable Broadheads Again!


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## ohiobuck

shot 3 deer last year with them two deer this year they worked great


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## Jack'n Fish

Gentelmen. 
You are missing the the main concern about using expandables.
Yes your shot placement could have been off.
Or the broadhead malfunctioned(highly unlikely)
My question is what set up are you shooting?
I know its a 70# Trykon but whats more important is they type of arrow, more impiortantly the total weight of your arrow in relation to the ACTUAL number of FPS your bow is shooting which give you the foot pounds of kenetic energy your arrow is capabale of delivering. Kenetic enegy is what is need to effectively open expandables. Fast bows are not requried neither are high draw weights. Let me know the arrow type, including fleatching as well as nocks and we can probably figure based off off MFG specs the weight of your arrow and then get a estimated FPS figure to get your kentic energy rating. Trust me arrow weight means more tahn most people think. There are trade offs with high speed bows and light arrows, while great for IBO competions they do not always make the ideal hunting set-ups.
The reason I went into this detail is that I shoot rage and or spitfires depending on which one I grab out of the quiver have never had a single penetration or blade malfunction issue. I have harvested multiple deer with these heads, includeing several book bucks and my father has as well.
ANyway I hope this helps someone a little.


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## JTRESS

A quick reply- On saturday I shot my deer with a rage,(Hoyt Katera, with Easton Full Metal Jacket arrows) the cut on the deer was in the horizontal direction, it went right through a rib bone....... not to knock muzzy's but a few years ago I was using them, I misjudged a shot and placed a poor shot into a bucks shoulder from about 10 yds. He ran away with about 27" of my 29" arrow hanging out of him. Anyways point of the story is a bad shot is a bad shot, the broadheads are usually the scapegoats......


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## One Legged Josh

My point is this; he didnt ask anyone about his shot placement! We were not there. He said it looked good and the arrow didnt penetrate. I too have killed deer with expandable heads. I have also had a spitfire malfunction. (highly unlikely or not) He said after witnessing TWICE the heads not penetrating he will not be using them.


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## hunt-n-fish

truck said:


> How could this be??? And it's not just me. I was with a buddy last year, shooting a Rage and the exact same thing happend with a 20 yard shot. With his Buck, the arrow fell out after 20 yards and he only had 3 inches of penetration. He also shot a doe at 15 yards with a Rage and didn't get a pass though
> Wow 20yrds and only 3in of penetration !!!!!


Sounds like you or them or whomever is hitting the shoulder blade. There are to many variables when crowding the shoulder. The shoulder blade will rarely allow an entry and exit, but will stop most arrows. Looks like a good hit, but stay away from it. I've hit deer there and it'll only allow an arrow no more then 3 to 4 inches,.............. always. It sucks, but it's frustrating to see a deer run off with your arrow and you think that you did everything right. Shoulder wounds won't kill the deer. We've pulled broadheads witih 3-4 inched of shafts out of deer shoulders, spinal areas and in the neck. It's surprising what you think will kill a deer only to have another hunter find your mistake after he harvests "his" deer, while skinning and/or precessing. It's part of hunting


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## falcon2082

Last year I tried the Rage broadheads. The first deer I got I didn't have a pass through but really didn't pay much attention to it. Before my annual trip to Michigan I bought another pack at the local hunting/archery shop in NW Ohio and when I opened them up at home the cut on contact front blades were chewed up and the blade was "off centered". My finger nail actually got caught on the burrs of the blades. I went back to the archery shop and me and one of the guys that worked there went throught the other packes on the hook and after going through about 6 packs I was able to come up with 3 of them that were good. On my second deer of the season I got a single lung at 10 yds and at that point I just decided to go back to my Grim Reapers. A couple of weeks later my hunting partner's brother in law shot a doe and got about 4 inches of penetration just aft of the shoulder. In my opinion I have seen and heard about a few too many penetration issues with these broadheads. Great concept, but just not worth the risk for me.

Mike


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## vc1111

I agree with JackNFish.

The key variable seems to always be kinetic energy in any discussion of mechanicals. 

With any type of projectile physics comes into play.

I wish someone would do a study, if it could be done at all, to measure the downward slope of penetration as arrow weight and bow poundage drops off. I'm thinking that the dropoff of kinetic energy would not be linear, meaning it would drop off faster and faster with each removal of a given increment of poundage and/or arrow weight. 

As to the Rage broadhead, the maker claims there is no loss of penetration, but I'm not convinced that is true. Don't get me wrong, I think it is _the best_ mechanical I've ever used, (and I tried about 5 different types over the years), but I will not use it anymore. Why? I killed a whitetail last year without a pass through. My bowhunting partner had the same experience and the distance of his kill was half of mine (15 yard kill versus my 30 yard kill). 

Neither of us shoots over 60 pounds. He will continue to use them this year. I've switched to Montec G5's, Blazer vanes, on Beeman ICS 400's.

I'm just afraid to risk having an entry wound from say, a quartering away shot where the arrow enters the abdominal (guts) area and then passes into the lung area without exiting. In such a situation, I'm thinking that the animal could run a long way without shedding enough blood to find a trackable trail.

I know that is all debatable, but from what I've seen after spending a lot of money (lol, probably waaay too much money to justify), it is possible to find the right arrow, fixed-blade broadhead, vane/feather combination to have an arrow truly fly almost perfectly like it had a field tip with a far higher possibility of pass through shots (in my opinion).

I got lucky recently and found that for me and my bow, the Beeman ICS 400's with Blazers and G5 Montec do just that.

Of course practice is a key component in any set up but the fixed blades have the downside component of wanting to "steer" the arrow at times. But the set up I mentioned seems to all but eliminate that variable.

Good discussion though and I think we all benefit from these threads because none of us ever wants to "lose" a whitetail.

Good luck to all this year.

Vince


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## M.Magis

Wow, you fellas are really over thinking things. 2-3 penetration is not a kinetic energy issue. A field point would penetrate that far.


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## bkr43050

M.Magis said:


> Wow, you fellas are really over thinking things. 2-3&#8221; penetration is not a kinetic energy issue. A field point would penetrate that far.


Great point! (Pun intended) 

By far the number one most important factor of broadhead penetration is location. A misplaced shot that finds bone (shoulder for example) is always going to be a crap shoot as to whether you get deep enough to kill. I don't know that they make a broadhead that cannot punch holes in the vital area on a deer. Personally I feel that the mechanicals can diminish your penetration (although I have not personally used them) but I think that is probably only a factor if you are hitting bone.

I say find something that you can shoot the most accurately and go with it. Keep your shots at distances which you feel confident with. Many stories I hear about lost deer are from long shots or tough angles.


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## truck

Well I am no expert and I use expandables(125grn buck blasters) 3 fixed blades and 3 mechs.Penetration has not been a problem for me unless I made a bad hit.If for some chance the mechs do not all open there are still 3 fixed blades.I think there are always problems ppl encounter no matter what,keep trying till you find something you like and stick with it


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## bowmaniac

Ok ,i just bought the 3 blade 1.5 inch cut rage expandables.Any feedback on these? Thanks


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## collegekid

I have experienced failures with broadheads as well. Even when shooting some practice shots, I have had blades not open at all. Tha point is this. You can all argue about shot placement and such and make him feel bad. Does not matter. He needs to shoot something that he is confident will work. He cant have a doubt in the back of his mind when he lets the arrow fly.


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## One Legged Josh

collegekid said:


> I have experienced failures with broadheads as well. Even when shooting some practice shots, I have had blades not open at all. Tha point is this. You can all argue about shot placement and such and make him feel bad. Does not matter. He needs to shoot something that he is confident will work. He cant have a doubt in the back of his mind when he lets the arrow fly.


Well said!


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## rgecko23

Itell you what it would have only taken me having that happen once till I figured out what was wronng. Sounds like you hit shoulder. and if you are hitting high out of your stand, then i think you are over compensating. If you are only say 20-25 feetup. you mgiht be over compensating for you distance. deer always look farther away when you are up a tree.


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## bkr43050

rgecko23 said:


> If you are only say 20-25 feetup. you mgiht be over compensating for you distance. deer always look farther away when you are up a tree.


Only 20-25' up?? As opposed to what??

I do agree though that if distances are not verified with a range finder or by walking them off it can be deceiving from up in a stand.

For the record though I rarely hunt more than 15-18 feet up.


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## theprowler

All I know is I went to the local taxidermist/deer processer and ask him which broad head does the most damage. He told me Rage 2 blade. I had shot mechanicals for all 9 year I have been bow hunting. Rockets did deflect for sure. I will stick with the rage and stay away from the shoulderblade.


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman

I shoot nothing but thunderheads
Can't stand the supposed "Great Muzzys"


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## Papascott

I shoot rage 2 blades. I ahot a doe last year and lost her trail in the dark. I went back the next morning to find her 15 ft off the trail of blood when I rolled her over an opossum crawled out the exit hole and had the deer partially gutted for me. 

I used to shoot thunderhead unil I had one shatter on a shoulder shot, all the blades broke off, but one and poor penetration with that shot  I then shot rockets for years and killed many deer with them only problem is I cannot find them locally. I went to muzzy after that and worked great, along with everyhead I have used, since I LEARNED ITS NOT THE BROAD HEAD, ITS THE SHOT!


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## wannabe

I shot a muzzy thru a car door and it was still fine. Not one mark on it and it still shot perfect. It was a little dull after the shot.


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## theprowler

Papascott, your right on!!!


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## Kaiser878

Now I hear yay and nay stories about rages. I have heard of them deflecting off of shoulder bones. Here is my experience. Last year was the first I had shot rage 2 blades. The first deer I shot was quartering away at a pretty steep angle. The arrow hit at the back of the rib cage, sliced 4 ribs in half, passed throguh the deer and broke the opposite front leg in half when it hit it. I Was shooting 62 pounds. Every deer I shot last year was with a rage, the end result was the same, absolutely devastating. THe only deer I didnt get a clean pass through on was my buck, he was quartering adn was at such an angle that the arrow went in and stuck in the opposite shoulder. Going in the rage blew through a rib and shattered it, maknig a horizontal slice in the side of the deer, blood was every where, and that was jsut an entry hole with no exit.

Fast forward to this year, shot my dow and blew through her something fierce. As she was running away all I could see was blood squirting out about a foot off her body on the entry hole. I am not gonig to say it is not possible, but I really dont see how a deer shot at 20 yards broadside or even quartering with any bow over 50 lbs wouldnt get more than 3 inches of penetration. It jsut seems very hard for me to grasp, just through past experience with shooting deer with a bow. I guess to each his own, whatever works for you is what you sohuld use. I will continue to use rages until I am proven wrong. I have seen very good results with them thus far!


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## James30

I will say that from my experience mechanical broadheads will penetrate less. They lose some of their kinetic energy on impact forcing them open and breaking through the skin. But... they tend to be easier to tune an arrow with them and the seem to fly more true to that of a field point than broadheads, in general of course. I've had fixed blades bust through shoulders and penetrate through both lungs, but don't think I would ever get that results from mechanical. I admit that I shoot the spitfires so i don't have to adjust my sights in any way going from practice to hunting but have had very few arrows pass through deer, but a good shot placement gets the job done either way. Fixed blades will bust through bone and skin better but the bottom line is this, you have to use what you are confident with. If the Rage heads have let you down even if it was a bad shot, then get something else. Gotta have confidence in your ability and trust and belief in your equipment. Good Luck :!


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## chuckyhumper

You guys are'nt supposed to use the practice head that come with the real ones.Ive had nothing but success with the rage 2 blade.


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## BIGGUNS

I Have Been Hunting For 30+ Years An For A Long Time I Have Used Muzzys An I Have Killed So Many With These I Lost Count , I Do Believe That If Its Not Broke Don't Mess With It ! Common Sense ,if It Opens Up You Loose Energy.


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## theprowler

chuckyhumper said:


> You guys are'nt supposed to use the practice head that come with the real ones.Ive had nothing but success with the rage 2 blade.


thats a good one!!


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## bulafisherman

I second the muzzy broadheads, using g5 teken expandables this year we have had 2 hits,both in the ribcage behind the shoulder,one a past though,nether one bleed much at all, one we found and one we never did. went back to the muzzy 3 blade and last week and put one down though the ribcage and it didnt go 40 yards before it was down from the massive bleeding.


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## One Legged Josh

bulafisherman said:


> I second the muzzy broadheads, using g5 teken expandables this year we have had 2 hits,both in the ribcage behind the shoulder,one a past though,nether one bleed much at all, one we found and one we never did. went back to the muzzy 3 blade and last week and put one down though the ribcage and it didnt go 40 yards before it was down from the massive bleeding.


BAD TO THE BONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Aquaholic

2 shots 2 dead deer with the Rage 2. I've used fixed blade broadheads since I started hunting. I'll never use fixed broadheads again after I saw the devistation the rage 2 did to these two deer. I have never shot more accurately with them.


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## vc1111

I shot a doe with a muzzy a few years ago. She was looking directly at me when I released the arrow. She sort of hunched up and pulled her leg up over her vitals as she was preparing to flee. 

The arrow went through the leg and through both lungs. Now what is interesting is this...when I put my finger through the spot where the arrow pierced her leg, it was as though she had been shot by a shotgun slug. There was a hole in the leg bone about the size of a quarter.

Muzzys are truly a powerful broadhead.


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## jzevenbergen

i used mechanicals and the same thing happened to me i will never use them again!!! I use Sonics made by American Broadhead Co. and they havent let me yet.


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## Aquaholic

Boston 30, I got a buck and doe with the rage 2'' this weekend. The doe was about a 25yd shot and actually broke a rib and exit out the other side. I hit Buck at 5 yards Monday and same thing. When I found the arrows both blades were fully intact, however severly dulled from hitting the bone. I have run into the same thing you are speaking of with 3 blade fixed broadheads. That's why I switched to the rage. It's all personal preferance and what you shoot best and have the most confidence with. Just like a man's pickup truck some swear by Ford and others say they have had nothing but problems with them. I really hope you get a 18 point buck for all your frustrations! It sounds like you really deserve one.


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## M.Magis

Three weeks and counting.  This thread just won't die.


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## LimaRanger488VS

I started using the Rage 2s this season and love them. Shot a doe that was about straight under my stand and the exit wound was just incredible and with the angle I had to shoot just about all the blood drained out in the 25 yards she ran.


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## GOLDFISH

Well I tried the rages this year mainly because of this thread, first I will agree arrow placement is critical regradless of broadhead, Second I do find that they come loose in the quiver, but last night I dropped two deer.One in her shoes the other a double lung maybe went 25 yards the pass through was sweet 
I use a horton prohawk 175# Rage has my business and trust,Now time for the MAN


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## wildman

I have shot lots of broad heads also. Its the shooter and placement in my opinion. I've shot thunderheads its because Ive never had to buy new ones. 
I use the same ones over and over. enless its brocken or damaged but One thing that I found out that if u buy cheap ones and u hit bone the shaft may brake off. other than that the fixed broad heads work well and there's know chance of mechanical error. Just thought that I would put in my thoughts.


Does any one remember the razor backs that twisted on the shaft with super sharp blades. They were horrible to shoot.


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