# Muskies in Erie???



## bubba k

Has anyone ever seen, heard, or actually caught a musky in Lake Erie? I know that they're caught in some of the tribs, but I've never had anyone verify one caught out in the lake. With the increase in weeds in the bays and marinas I would think that there would be a fishable population especially when you consider the #s in the Detroit River. I've heard some rumors about guys targeting them around the islands, but nothing concrete.


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## the weav

They are out there for sure,never caught one my self but seen a few here on OGF.I think around the Islands and Huron for sure.


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## GF John

Here is an artile about one caught in July near West Sister Island. http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080704/COLUMNIST22/807040342[/URL]


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## crittergitter

There are some out there, but not high numbers of them. My uncle's buddy caught a 36"er on a walleye harness in 2006. The fish was caught approx 2 miles north of west sister.


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## Oldlogin

The East end of Erie is better know for Musky.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06337/743058-358.stm


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## buzzgn

glad someone posted this......caught a very small one about 10 years ago, trolling small crankbaits off avon point in about 15 feet of water. contacted the odnr with the info....they did not seem too surprised and told me they test netted one in put n bay.....i would think that there has to be a small population given close proximity to the detroit river and st. clair.....i would even bet that the population would be fishable just out of the detroit river....i know that some huge fish are caught in buffalo harbor every fall.


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## Coon_Shark

I hear the population is spreading around Sandusky some. But eastern Erie has a lot of size.


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## Webman27

There is actually a specific strain of musky called Lake Erie Musky in the lake. It was very much depleted but has been making a comeback from what I have heard. My best fishing buddy up there had one smack a perch he was bringing in last year but he couldn't land in on his perch pole  He also caught a little one trolling as well. They are coming back for sure but I think still few and far between. He fishes the west but we have both heard more about the eastern end of the lake.


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## xtrema

Found one washed up on the beach at Kelleys last spring. It was huge. I couldn't guess a weight for it, but it was a monster is all I know.


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## MuskieJim

The "Riverine" (Great Lakes) strain does have amazing colorations and have the genes to grow to huge proportions. St. Lawrence River ring a bell? 

Here's some Riverine fish that I scrounged up on the internet:

One of the most famous, Howard Wagner's Eastern Basin Beast









Another Buffalo Harbor fish:









Surprise catch while walleye fishing from Western Basin near Detroit River mouth:









And of course, the Detroit River:


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## Webman27

Great pics MuskyJim!!! Sorry I miss stated Lake Erie Musky and not Great Lakes Musky, I guess I am kind of short sighted


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## 1roofmusky

The Howard Wagner fish was caught on a LEGEND "PLOW". Unfortunately this is the only thing I've ever caught on one!!!(MuskieJim)


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## MuskieJim

Haha. Those things taste as good as they look!


I had to add, is my head making that lure look huge, or is the lure making my head look tiny????


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## 1badmthrfisher

I caught one up there when I was young... I think I was around Sandusky and I was fishing with a giant minnow under a bobber in a little harbor or something. It was pretty big but it wasn't a monster... I was little so I guess anything is big...


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## Weatherby

They are there but very few and far between. The population is stronger than it has been but still overall very weak. This is one of the only places in the state with natural reproduction (and a size limit) and should (in my opinion) be protected at least through the spawn.


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## BigDaddy300

...and some one just had to go and catch a musky in Erie to prove something! Check the Erie forum for details.


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## Mushijobah

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=114409

There's some recent proof.


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## Coon_Shark

It'd be nice to see consistant hogs coming out of Sandusky....it'd probably take a while with no stocking taking place.


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## MuskieJim

Weatherby said:


> They are there but very few and far between. The population is stronger than it has been but still overall very weak. This is one of the only places in the state with natural reproduction (and a size limit) and should (in my opinion) be protected at least through the spawn.


Well put! It's never going to be fishable with people keeping the egg layers


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## 1roofmusky

BigDaddy300 said:


> ...and some one just had to go and catch a musky in Erie to prove something! Check the Erie forum for details.


-Another barely legal, natural reproduction fish headed for the trash can! When that guy gets the estimate for that mount, that fish will be about the best curb ornament on the block that week! I know its their right, but this angers me to no end!!! Ohio needs to up the size regulation both inland (40"+), and on Lake Erie(50"+)! WHAT A WASTE!!!!


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## Webman27

I just heard yesterday that they are planning on removing some river damn that will open up to Western Lake Erie soon that could potentially give 1,000-1,500 musky access to the lake. Let's hope when they do so they change the regulations along with it!!!!!


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## c. j. stone

My son has a photo on his phone of one he caught while fishing off Cleveland last fall. I'll try to download the photo next time he comes over and see how I can get it on here.


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## fffffish

Coon_Shark said:


> It'd be nice to see consistant hogs coming out of Sandusky.


Wow a 36 inch HOG. Now thats funny


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## Coon_Shark

fffffish said:


> Wow a 36 inch HOG. Now thats funny


Uh, no......40 Lbs+.


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## fffffish

I have been fishing for muskie in Lake Erie in the waters west of Lorain for the past 10 years. I have only seen 4 other boats out there intentionally targeting muskie. We have not talked about it for fear of seeing 50 boats filled with fisherman thinking a 36 inch fish is a hog and keeping it. Keeping any fish under 48 inches will only get you laughed at. You can go to any of the inland lake that are stocked with muskie and catch a 36inch muskie almost any day of the week. I have also seen increases in the catch rate and size improve over the years but that will go away fast if they start keeping those small fish.


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## Coon_Shark

Fffffish.....FYI: I never referenced a 36" fish as a hog......that was your assumption! I said a 40 lb'r to clarify in my last post. Not sure where you are coming from to point me out saying I said 'a 36" fish is a hog'??? Who's laughing at who? The reason I posted was because it would be great to see Erie/Sandusky as a consistant producer of a hog (like the Buffalo Harbor, Niagra River).....40lb'r+. Maybe occassional would be a more accurate word than consistant-the population will take a while to build without stocking.


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## fffffish

**** Shark
Sorry misunderstanding. 
I thought you were referring to the 36 inch fish that was in the link in the post before yours

Is a 36 inch muskie a Fish Ohio fish? If it is what is wrong with Them? We need to get that Changed


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## Coon_Shark

Yes, a 36"r is a fish Ohio. I heard they are working on changing it. But I don't know when it'll go thru? It'd be nice to see it go up quite a bit.


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## Weatherby

Yes Rick 36" is the Fish Ohio standard. This was discussed at the Muskie Summit in Columbus. No forward progress was made as they want to review the entire Fish Ohio program and possibly make several changes at once. If I hear anything I will pass it along.


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## 1roofmusky

I spoke with Dale Macnair at the recent Ohio show at great length about his incredible catch. It was determined by many of the biologists that his 57"x33" record catch was not a St. Larry fish. In fact they all believe it was a Lake Ontario fish in the river to Winter there. One more mark for the Great Lakes being a "BEAST FACTORY". 

I know I don't even have to mention Green Bay/Fox River mouth also! 

Georgian Bay, Bay of Quinte, I could go on forever! The Great Lakes system has a lot of fish, but isolating/patterning them with any consistency is where the challenge is!


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## fffffish

I think we need to put some added pressure on ODNR about this. The 36" fish Ohio makes non muskie fisherman think they have a real trophy thats just wrong at 36" is what I would call and everyday fish. Fun to catch but youre never going to brag to your friends about it. The very minimum you would think is 42 and thats barley there.


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## krustydawg

fffffish said:


> The 36" fish Ohio makes non muskie fisherman think they have a real trophy thats just wrong at 36" is what I would call and everyday fish. Fun to catch but youre never going to brag to your friends about it.


Yep, that's exactly what the "non muskie fisherman" think. Get over yourself. Every year we accidentally catch one or two of these stinky, slimy skis targeting walleye off Huron. This one was 43" and committed suicide by engulfing a 5" ripstick down it's throat. It would have been released but it was obviously not going to survive. Does this one meet your requirments for a wallhanger or should we have thrown it back in the water for the gulls to eat ? It went on the wall......I hope you approve.


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## crittergitter

krustydawg said:


> Yep, that's exactly what the "non muskie fisherman" think. Get over yourself. Every year we accidentally catch one or two of these stinky, slimy skis targeting walleye off Huron. This one was 43" and committed suicide by engulfing a 5" ripstick down it's throat. It would have been released but it was obviously not going to survive. Does this one meet your requirments for a wallhanger or should we have thrown it back in the water for the gulls to eat ? It went on the wall......I hope you approve.


I think you are missing the point. Look at all of the Fish Ohio standards. A smallmouth bass has got to be 21"s. That's DARN hard to find in Ohio waters. Even a largemouth that size is tough. A walleye has to be 28"s and while those can be found, they aren't caught every time out(also good luck finding one outside of Erie). Most muskie guys find when the fishing is good that a 36" musky is an average fish, in fact proably only 3 years old. So, the standards are inconsistant. No musky fisherman will care that a dieing fish was kept. In fact, many wouldn't care that a 43"er was kept as that is a real nice fish anywhere. 

Now, seperate subject there are musky guys that would like to see a size limit in place. Erie, might be different, but on inland lakes most guys would be quite content with a 42" size limit. The picture you posted is of a fish larger than that. I don't know why there is a fascination with muskie in Erie. I wonder how many die in perch nets every year? Is there really a newable population in the lake? If this was true, I think we would have some regulation in place for them.


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## Muskyman

Per Google: Average Length of 3 Year Old Fish,
Bass 12"
Walleye 12"
Perch 7"
Muskie 36"
Alll just young fish with a lot of growing left...HOPEFULLY!


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## krustydawg

crittergitter said:


> I think you are missing the point. Look at all of the Fish Ohio standards. A smallmouth bass has got to be 21"s. That's DARN hard to find in Ohio waters. Even a largemouth that size is tough. A walleye has to be 28"s and while those can be found, they aren't caught every time out(also good luck finding one outside of Erie). Most muskie guys find when the fishing is good that a 36" musky is an average fish, in fact proably only 3 years old. So, the standards are inconsistant. No musky fisherman will care that a dieing fish was kept. In fact, many wouldn't care that a 43"er was kept as that is a real nice fish anywhere.
> 
> Now, seperate subject there are musky guys that would like to see a size limit in place. Erie, might be different, but on inland lakes most guys would be quite content with a 42" size limit. The picture you posted is of a fish larger than that. I don't know why there is a fascination with muskie in Erie. I wonder how many die in perch nets every year? Is there really a newable population in the lake? If this was true, I think we would have some regulation in place for them.


No, I am not missing the point. I hear loud and clear exactly what the musky fishermans bitch is. My point is who cares what the fish Ohio standard is ? It's a number....I find it hard to believe that someone would keep a fish, especially a muskie just because it fits the standard of the 36" fish Ohio. I don't even measure the hundreds of perch or walleye I keep each year to verify if they are fish Ohio, to me it doesn't matter. How great my day or year of fishing is not defined by how many fish Ohio's I put in the boat. You get a pin in the mail, whooptee doo ! 
Now, with the size limit comment you are getting somewhere. That would be a regulation that is put in place and if you are caught outside those lines then you should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 
I just don't like it when people try to pass their opinions on to others that are well within the regulations to do as they please with these fish. If you want to make a difference get the regs. changed. Badgering a kid and his Dad in another thread (not you specifically) in regards to keeping and having a mount made of a 36" muskie is their choice and nobody elses, they were well within the regulations to keep the fish. The End.


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## crittergitter

krustydawg said:


> No, I am not missing the point. I hear loud and clear exactly what the musky fishermans bitch is. My point is who cares what the fish Ohio standard is ? It's a number....I find it hard to believe that someone would keep a fish, especially a muskie just because it fits the standard of the 36" fish Ohio. I don't even measure the hundreds of perch or walleye I keep each year to verify if they are fish Ohio, to me it doesn't matter. How great my day or year of fishing is not defined by how many fish Ohio's I put in the boat. You get a pin in the mail, whooptee doo !
> Now, with the size limit comment you are getting somewhere. That would be a regulation that is put in place and if you are caught outside those lines then you should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
> I just don't like it when people try to pass their opinions on to others that are well within the regulations to do as they please with these fish. If you want to make a difference get the regs. changed. Badgering a kid and his Dad in another thread (not you specifically) in regards to keeping and having a mount made of a 36" muskie is their choice and nobody elses, they were well within the regulations to keep the fish. The End.


So, you would get a 12" bass mounted? If you would that is fine. I would not have a problem with it. Though, I think most anglers wouldn't want to spend that kind of money on mounting that kind of fish. We hear and/or see of muskies in the trash all the time because someone caught a 36" muskie and thought they wanted to mount it. Then, when they find out it costs $350(quick estimate I grabbed from Jim's Taxidermy) to mount it, they throw it out. To you this may be no big deal. However, to guys who routinely target them and know how fragile the resource is............well we WOULD like to see a change. Nothing wrong with wanting for a better resource. Maybe the fish in question would have been released if the Fish Ohio mark was 42"s. Maybe not? I don't think it is right to criticize someone for keeping a fish, but we shouldn't be criticized for wanting to make the fishery better.


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## krustydawg

crittergitter said:


> So, you would get a 12" bass mounted? If you would that is fine. I would not have a problem with it. Though, I think most anglers wouldn't want to spend that kind of money on mounting that kind of fish. We hear and/or see of muskies in the trash all the time because someone caught a 36" muskie and thought they wanted to mount it. Then, when they find out it costs $350(quick estimate I grabbed from Jim's Taxidermy) to mount it, they throw it out. To you this may be no big deal. However, to guys who routinely target them and know how fragile the resource is............well we WOULD like to see a change. Nothing wrong with wanting for a better resource. Maybe the fish in question would have been released if the Fish Ohio mark was 42"s. Maybe not? I don't think it is right to criticize someone for keeping a fish, but we shouldn't be criticized for wanting to make the fishery better.


If that 12" bass was my son's first fish and he wanted it mounted, yep it would be on the wall. The fish does not have to be a personal best or some sort of record for someone to want a fish mounted. Maybe it was the experience, maybe it was the person they caught the fish with and they want to preserve that memory. The list can go on and on in regards to why someone would choose to mount a fish.
To me someone who discards a fish in the manner you described above is not an outdoorsman. I am an avid outdoorsman and I do care about nature and our environment, so I take offense to the "no big deal to you comment". 
I am not criticizing anyone, I understand your want to protect that fishery. However, if you want to make a difference, then lobby for the regulations to be changed to protect the species more. Trying to push your opinions onto someone else in regards to what they do with their catch that was legally harvested is petty and selfserving imo. As for protecting and wanting to make the fishery better, our tax dollars pay for the men and women of the ODNR to make those decisions. Not you and I. I'm sure if the species was threatened in anyway shape or form the ODNR would adjust the regulations accordingly immediately.

You had the opportunity and the proper audience to voice your opinion to on March 1st of this year according to your own thread in The Lounge. Did you seize the moment ?
http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=112143


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## crittergitter

Weatherby said:


> Yes Rick 36" is the Fish Ohio standard. This was discussed at the Muskie Summit in Columbus. No forward progress was made as they want to review the entire Fish Ohio program and possibly make several changes at once. If I hear anything I will pass it along.


Krusty,

This post illustrates that the musky clubs in Ohio are meeting with the ODNR on an annual basis and discussing these very subjects with them. I am not sure why Rick was not aware of this. Since this subject is well covered, I am not going to just further the exchange with you. Have a fine day.


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## ShutUpNFish

Yes, it is one's perogative to keep a fish for mounting as long as it is within the confinds of the law. However, I think it is also a matter of personal judgment. Most of those who keep a fish of this size (40" or less), obviously do not realize that the fish is merely just a youngster and probably hasn't even had the chance to breed yet. Its kinda like harvesting a year old deer...yes its certainly legal, but is it really a logical thing to do if you're trying to manage a heard? On the other hand, OH is primarily a manufactured and put/take fishery when it comes to muskies....Very little natural reroduction takes place, but I realize we're talking Erie here. I'm sure your DNR knows what its going to take to ensure a healthy population of muskies in various areas. I'm sure they take into consideration the mortality rates, creeling, disease, etc etc. How many muskies do you seriously think are being targeted, let alone harvest in Lake Erie? I have certainly always been an advocate for C&R for many years when it comes to muskie fishing, however I seriously think this whole 100% C&R is the part of it thats getting rediculous. Are these actions truely taking place for the benefit of the species or that particular fish or is it rather happening for the benefit of the angler and his/her selfishness? Just take a moment and think about that. I remember the days when In-Fisherman promoted "selective harvest" now its all about "catch and release". Its evident that a lot of these 100% C&R guys are nothing but extremists confused about where to channel their passion. IMO, if anybody is so more driven by making sure that a fish lives (any fish) or wants to do it minimal harm; then maybe they should re-think what they are doing all together. Bird-watching may be a more appropriate past time for them! (don't get me wrong, being careful with a fish you're about to release is important, but it shouldn't be what DRIVES you)

Also yes, its correct in thinking that if someone has a problem with the regs the way they are now, then efforts should be made to promote appropriate changes so that the fishery can improve. But think about what your efforts are improving....is it the quality or comfort of the fishing opportunity for you or is it really to benefit the whole system? A few years ago, PA changed its regs regarding muskie fishing which took many years of petitioning and rallying by the muskie fisher community. If you care enough, it is certainly worth it in the long run so do it, but it should be done with all the right intentions. Just my .02


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## krustydawg

Well said.....Now let's ShutUpNFish ! 

Crittergitter, you have a nice day also...


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## MuskieJim

krustydawg said:


> Yep, that's exactly what the "non muskie fisherman" think. Get over yourself. Every year we accidentally catch one or two of these stinky, slimy skis targeting walleye off Huron.


Krusty, seems like you have some bias in you as well. Mounting 12" bass, and a 36" musky? This discussion should've been over a long time ago. 

I'll post pics of my spike deer mount that I shot this year.....

I also had a 10" bass mounted. It looks great. I wasn't fishing for bass, so I figured I'd keep it just because. Please, go reel in a log or something.

There's no amount of lobbying or actions that can be taken to change the mindset of a meat-eating, old school fishing community. Glad they're being phased out.


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## krustydawg

MuskieJim said:


> Krusty, seems like you have some bias in you as well. Mounting 12" bass, and a 36" musky? This discussion should've been over a long time ago.
> 
> I'll post pics of my spike deer mount that I shot this year.....
> 
> I also had a 10" bass mounted. It looks great. I wasn't fishing for bass, so I figured I'd keep it just because. Please, go reel in a log or something.


Bias how ? Did you even read my entire post ? That muskie pictured was 43" not 36" (not that it makes a difference). That muskie would not have survived so it was either put it to use by mounting it, donate it to a food kitchen or let it float and let the winged rats make a buffet out of it. I thought we did the most noble thing in mounting a mortally wounded ski. I have the utmost respect for all fish whether it be a muskie, sheepshead, white bass, wallye etc... even though I mainly target walleye. You don't see me telling guys pulling the 25" female eyes off the reefs that have not spawned that they should have released them so they could lay their eggs do you ? After all the eyes that are not "trophies" (28"+) have the most viable eggs for spawning.!% What I think is irrelevant, wrong, right or indifferent. It's not my right to tell someone to keep or not to keep as long as they are within regulations set by the ODNR. Pure and simple.


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## MuskieJim

I was referring to the bashing. Get over yourself, we catch these slimy, stinky, etc.


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## krustydawg

MuskieJim said:


> I was referring to the bashing. Get over yourself, we catch these slimy, stinky, etc.


Sorry, they smell roses and apparently their crap doesn't stink either. Geesh....


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## 1roofmusky

I still can't believe people aren't stating the REAL reason this is such a big issue to avid muskie fisherman!! It all boils down to the fact that even in the best muskie lakes, the populations are still LOW DENSITY! True fish factories have a population of roughly 2 fish per acre and this is considered excellent. A great walleye fishery(ERIE) could have a hundred or more fish working a ball of emeralds or shad over an acre. We are all comparing apples to water melons here! 
A good walleye angler has the potential to boat dozens of eye's a day! A good muskie fisherman feels successful if he boats at least one per outing! More than one is a banner day! The catchable populations of the two species do not even come close to comparison. A well seasoned muskie angler understands this whereas the "lucky" jigger bags it 'cause they are used to keeping fish. After keeping limits of the same old walleyes and perch, a stray "trophy" swims by and its in the cooler with the meat! 
The walleye people need to understand that there aren't as many muskies available as perch and walleye out on the water! That one muskie kill doesn't matter to them(because they aren't targeting muskies) but thats one half of the population per acre on a good lake. Erie probably has a poulation nowhere near 2 per acre though. This is what frustrates muskie hunters to no end.
This would also not be a big deal if this muskie would have been harvested from Leesville where the lake will receive another 1000 fish every year. Lake Erie is completely self-sustaining and extremely fragile!
Because the State of Ohio is so far behind the rest of the muskie world in upping size limits, we need to start doing something about it! Its time to get some petitions drafted by local muskie clubs and putting them in bait shops around the state. Only after the state regs change, "other" anglers will realize that 36" is NOT a mount-worthy fish. Unfortunately it will take bold print in a regulations book to make them understand.
Complaining and bickering only alienates muskie fisherman even more.


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## fffffish

1roofmusky 
You hit the nail right on the head very well said


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## BuckeyeTom

Got a kick out of this discussion.....

Some of you guys are mean,lol! Release those skis guys. Replica's look better longer! If and I do mean IF you happen to deep hook one and you can't get her to swim, Put her on the wall. 

Got a kick out of what some of you said about a 36" muskie. If you are a muskie man, a muskie is a muskie. 50" or better muskie are the holy grail,lol. Been fishing since the ice come off down here. Check out Big Dan's 36" Fat Girl. Let me know if you guys would laugh at this fish. She ate a 10" swimbait like it was a piece of candy. Definately the fattest 36" that I've seen. This fish came yesterday afternoon. All I got was a dinkosaurus 27".

Guy's I don't know nothing about Erie skis, but I'm sure there are beast in there! I think someone already posted the one that Howard Wagner caught over to the East. It was a HAWG!


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## Weatherby

Feel the need to step in here. Noone take offense.




> This one was 43" and committed suicide by engulfing a 5" ripstick down it's throat. It would have been released but it was obviously not going to survive. Does this one meet your requirments for a wallhanger or should we have thrown it back in the water for the gulls to eat ?


If a fish is not going to survive as this one wasn't I would expect the person to keep it. Throwing it back in this instance would be against the law.



> I hear loud and clear exactly what the musky fishermans bitch is.


There is nothing to be said if it is done lawfully.



> I find it hard to believe that someone would keep a fish, especially a muskie just because it fits the standard of the 36" fish Ohio.


Believe it or not it happens all the time not just with muskie. 



> I'm sure if the species was threatened in anyway shape or form the ODNR would adjust the regulations accordingly immediately.


Nothing is done immediately. It took over 1 year to get the daily limit lowered from two fish to one.



> Its time to get some petitions drafted by local muskie clubs and putting them in bait shops around the state.


Petitions do nothing. We have already been down this road.


Now some of my own comments.

The muskie fishery in Ohio is treated the exact same as say the saugeye fishery. They are both treated as a "put and take" fishery. 

The DNR stocks the fish because in Ohio natural reproduction is almost non-existent. Once every 10 to 12 years muskie might successfully reproduce in one of the inland reservoirs. They go through the motions every year but are not successful because the Army Corps of Engineers controls the water levels in the flood control reservoirs. The eggs either die because the water levels are dropped and they dry out before hatching or more often than not they get covered up by silt because the water level is raised.


Krusty, if anyone has given you a hard time about keeping a fish I apologize to you. This only creates hard feelings and _may_ cause a person to keep another fish out of spite (not saying you would).

To get a regulation changed in Ohio takes alot of hard work and more time than you might think. We have been trying for several years to get some changes made. The size limit issue is dead at this time as we don't see it happening. This is why we are concentrating our efforts in other directions. 

The "Fish Ohio" area is one of these areas. It may appear on the outside that this is silly however when the DNR's own website refers to a trophy muskie as 30" or larger you can see why someone would keep the fish.

There are several more areas we are working on. Changes to the DNR website is one of them and we have been invited to work with the DNR to make contributions to the website. 


Another area is "education". The importance of catch & release for a low density fish such as the muskie. The proper handling and release tactics etc.


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## fffffish

BuckeyeTom
Your right A muskie is a muskie no matter what the size and all fun to catch But really what would you tell your friend if he was even going to have a replica of that fish made? I got lucky this past year and put a 50" and a 52" in the boat and releast them both. I hope this year my grandson will get one of them if it happens it will be 10 times the fun. I was fishing the back of J lake at west branch one year for crappie with a flat fish and 2lb test when out of nowhere this little 12inch muskie hit the lure that little bugger took line off my reel that was about 10 years ago what do you think the chances are it may have been the same fish as the 50 or 52 
10,000 to 1


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## BuckeyeTom

I totally agree with you there, a 36" muskie is definately not a replica fish. I would'nt recommend it unless it was 45"+.

Daniels fish was released and we'll catch her again.

Who knows FFFFFFish that may have been the same fish,lol.

Weatherby is right about education.... most beginners don't have a clue how to release a muskie properly.


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## bubba k

Wow, I started this thread and didn't expect all of this. I hadn't looked at it for a few days and geeeezzzz I see 49 replies. Anyways, I believe that all muskies (regardless of size) should be released. That's just my opinion, and my reasons stem from everything that I've learned over the years, BUT when I was uneducated about the population and how fragile it is my thought process was much different. 15 years ago, my buddy and I kept a muskie that he caught on Cave Run Lake. It was our first so we took it back to our camp and ate it (it was actually very good). I would never do that now, but it's because of everything that I've learned over the years. If someone would have ripped me at the time that I kept that fish I would have told them to "kiss my a$$...it's my perogative". My point is that we all need to help people understand the importance of preserving populations of fish that are fragile enough to be negatively effected by angler's keeping them. Doing that is all that you can do because ticking people off will only result in them keeping them if/when they catch them merely out of spite.


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## MadMac

Weatherby, have any efforts gone through our congressmen? Maybe we need to bypass the ODNR.


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## crittergitter

MadMac said:


> Weatherby, have any efforts gone through our congressmen? Maybe we need to bypass the ODNR.


The ODNR has been very open and willing to work with the musky clubs to date. I don't think we would want to burn that bridge. I think we will see a change to the Fish Ohio mark in the near future. 

I see in the Erie forum there was another musky catch. I am really starting to wonder if they are coming on. It's been several years now of cleaner water in the lake due to the zebra and quagga muscles. Maybe it just took time for their population to rebound as a result of the improved habitat. I think the next big question would be: Are we just getting more infiltration from the St Clair/Detroit river or is there a viable population in Erie that are reproducing and growing in numbers? We're seeing an increase in catch rate and that is without anglers specifically targeting them.


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## ShutUpNFish

"The DNR stocks the fish because in Ohio natural reproduction is almost non-existent. Once every 10 to 12 years muskie might successfully reproduce in one of the inland reservoirs. They go through the motions every year but are not successful because the Army Corps of Engineers controls the water levels in the flood control reservoirs. The eggs either die because the water levels are dropped and they dry out before hatching or more often than not they get covered up by silt because the water level is raised."

The above quote only supports and prooves my whole point...most "extremist" C&R muskie guys are releasing all their catches in the hopes of someday catching them BIGGER....cuz we ALL know bigger is better....right?

"LOW DENSITY"....Low density is right! Thats the nature of the beast. Theres only a couple of lakes that I have fished which I felt were border-line over populated with skis (I won't mention names!) And nature, I believe, has been in the process of taking care of that in the past few years. Now those ARE naturally reproducing muskie waters...ALL the C&R in the world wouldn't help it OR HURT IT (but wait! Maybe it has...has anyone ever though about that?) Thats OK though, nature has a way of taking care of things that people CANNOT...Thank God for that!!! Put and take fisheries are just that...put and take. Artificial fisheries with intentions of fish being removed and/or replaced...BOTTOM LINE. So if somebody actually thinks they are, in some way, more special because they release every fish they catch in a put and take fishery (which most around here are)...they are sadly mistaken IMO. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying go out and kill everything you catch, I'm just sayiing quit being so damn "EXTREME"!

P.S. - I've never seen a replica yet that compares to the natural look of a real mount!! You can debate it all you want, I've seen them all....some look better than others, but the replicas don't even compare...IMO
Have you seen the Lacs? Supposed to be the best....They look absolutely rediculous to me!

So I'll finish with this...I'm A muskie fisherman, a born fisherman. I love catching fish, especially muskies. I have learned a lot about the species over the years, but still have a hard time figuring them out completely....The day I realized that I never will, was the day a lot of pressure was released from this passion to catch them....with that passion, was the hopes of catching that one "monster" fish that everyone in the muskie world would be so impressed with! Not anymore, I have no-one to impress, but my own kids! So now days, I have a lot more fun doing it....if I fish a tourny, I usually take my brother who makes me laugh half the time and we have a ball...win or lose. I take my kids and hopefully they will learn that it is meant to be an enjoyable experience of respect, learning and fishing. These are the things which drive me anymore when it comes to muskie fishing and guess what? I have been 100 times more successful with my new found attitude towards the sport. No longer being obsessed with numbers or records has liberated me in a sense and its made me a Hell of a lot happier.....Its made me a better fisherman over-all!! I believe I still put myself into those positions to possibly get lucky, I'm just having a Hell of a lot more fun doing it and if it happens, it happens; if not...NO BIGGIE!

Now I'm rambling....done!

FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY....I figured out that the reason I love muskie fishing so much is that they are NOT easy to catch and NEVER will be! And in this society of "Instant Gratification" theres NOTHING anybody can do to change that, no matter how much they want something "EASY" or for "NOTHING"...It takes work baby and sometimes after all the work you've done, you get slapped right in the f***** face.....are you newbies ready for that? Can you handle it? If so, hop aboard and have fun, but keep in mind that this isn't steelhead fishing!


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## K gonefishin

I'm far from a musky expert but IMO I do believe there is a good population in the western basin of the lake, expecially further west in MI waters, If St Clair is a musky factory why would Erie not be? maybe not to the extent but I can only image there is a fishable population out there, expecially around the islands. 

Me and my buddys are going to round up some baits and hit the western basin in early summer probably early June and see if we can muster up a bite or too, you can't catch them if you don't target them, in the past 2 years I have seen or heard of at least 10 caught my accident, that's all the proof I need to go fishing for them, if anything we'll still have a good time I've walleye fished and layed an egg a few times and I'm good at that....laying an egg looking for a musky wouldn't both me in the least bit.

I got rigger rods and dispey rods that will work perfect. LOL. Plenty of rod holders on my rig too.


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## crittergitter

K gonefishin said:


> I'm far from a musky expert but IMO I do believe there is a good population in the western basin of the lake, expecially further west in MI waters, If St Clair is a musky factory why would Erie not be? maybe not to the extent but I can only image there is a fishable population out there, expecially around the islands.
> 
> Me and my buddys are going to round up some baits and hit the western basin in early summer probably early June and see if we can muster up a bite or too, you can't catch them if you don't target them, in the past 2 years I have seen or heard of at least 10 caught my accident, that's all the proof I need to go fishing for them, if anything we'll still have a good time I've walleye fished and layed an egg a few times and I'm good at that....laying an egg looking for a musky wouldn't both me in the least bit.
> 
> I got rigger rods and dispey rods that will work perfect. LOL. Plenty of rod holders on my rig too.


Keep us posted. I hope you tie into some.


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## cincinnati

"C&R muskie guys are releasing all their catches in the hopes of someday catching them".....AGAIN. Keep any you want, but you have no complaint when there are none left for any of us. Dick Pearson has said many times that there aren't enough 50" fish for all of us to keep even 1.


"Theres only a couple of lakes that I have fished which I felt were border-line over populated with skis...." Everyone has an opinion. A musky biologist once told me that muskies are the perfect topline predator because they reproduce poorly, even under the best of conditions, & will eat each other, so they can't over-populate.


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## MuskieMan35

_"& will eat each other, so they can't over-populate."_


bad to the bone boys... bad to the bone.... Is it time to go ski huntin yet?
I got my arse handed to me last year but still can't shake the desire to get more arse handed to me!


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## cincinnati

A friend/former guide had a 29" musky, @ boatside, struck & KILLED by a real big girl.


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## WISH IT WAS YOU

i think none of you have a right to bash the guy who mounted a 36inch fish that fish was a trophy fish to him he did nothing wrong. sorry the guy wasnt a amazing muskie fisherman as you and 36 inch fish are an everyday thing for him. if have problem with it just leave it to your self. as to the orginal post i bet their is a ton of muskies in erie but that lake is so big its just hard to catch them


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## ShutUpNFish

WISH IT WAS YOU said:


> i think none of you have a right to bash the guy who mounted a 36inch fish that fish was a trophy fish to him he did nothing wrong. sorry the guy wasnt a amazing muskie fisherman as you and 36 inch fish are an everyday thing for him. if have problem with it just leave it to your self. as to the orginal post i bet their is a ton of muskies in erie but that lake is so big its just hard to catch them


Best thing I've read on this whole thread!

AND who the Hell cares what Dick Pearson thinks!? Fish long and hard enough and you'll develop your own opinions rather than reading/following someone elses which are read from some book! I never implied to keep all the fish you want...C&R has certainly done wonders for the muskie fishing in this country. However, to put it quite simply, there is NO need to be extreme to be supreme! 50" fish don't come a dime a dozen...never have, never will, but I'm sure most of the efforts made today are in the hope that they will come easy someday...Ain't happenin'... Thats it....SAVVY?


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## true2plue

I've never caught a Muskie before, but would love to someday before I slip through the pearly gates. Avid Muskie fisherman are understandibly very protective of their species of fish, which I have no problem with. When people try to force feed there opinions down another fishermans' throat, it becomes a very big problem, mainly because SPITE becomes a factor.


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## ShutUpNFish

true2plue said:


> I've never caught a Muskie before, but would love to someday before I slip through the pearly gates. Avid Muskie fisherman are understandibly very protective of their species of fish, which I have no problem with. When people try to force feed there opinions down another fishermans' throat, it becomes a very big problem, mainly because SPITE becomes a factor.


You got that right buddy!! Isn't it a shame that some people think that they are better than somebody else just because of their superior practices? Nobody deserves to be treated like a dick just because they do something thats perfectly legal, but unacceptable by some extremists. Its OK to be protective, but when people start to get too extreme, disension and seperation among groups develops. Just take a look at fly fishermen vs. bait fishermen vs. pin fishermen in the trout/steelhead community. As far as I'm concerned, theres NO place for that sh*t in muskie fishing nor should be...its happening however and I personally can't stand it, as you could probably tell. Too many muskie nuts....they may start blowin' sh*t up! LOL Tight Lines!


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## Weatherby

I have never claimed to be better than someone else and I never will. 

You have all the right in the world to keep a fish IF it is done legally. Just as I have the right to release the same fish. 


There are several reasons I release the fish.

1. So the fish grows bigger. Not that bigger is better but that the opportunity is there for A.) Someone else to catch the fish. B.) That the fish may grow and possibly live to see that magic year when it is able to successfully reproduce. 

2. They are a low density fish at best. It takes alot of money to replace that fish once harvested. 

3. And most importantly (to me) I get a great feeling after wrestling the beast to watch it swim away.


As I've said many times if someone gives you a hard time about keeping a fish they are just as wrong as the person that purposely kills one and leaves it to float.

Once again I apologize to any and all that have been yelled at, cussed at, or given a hard time for keeping a fish.


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## Jeffish1

Sounds like everyone needs to go fishing...Anyways, we caught and released a small 26" ski when we were steelhead fishing in Erie out of conneaut in the fall two years ago..I'll see if I can find the pic....Really made us want to start Musky fishing the rivers up ther, but we haven't taken the time yet. Pretty fish, looked a lot like the St Claire Muskies with the well defined spots...Wasn't this how this thread started?  If I find the pic I will post it...


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## bubba k

I began C&R (for muskies and most all species) based on what people "taught me" and not based on "how people ridiculed me". I've been able to apply a lot of what I have learned on this site to help improve my experiences on the water. Ultimately, anyone that takes the time to read and respond to threads are doing so to share and learn from other people's accomplishments and failures. Lets all try to remember that we all have this in common, and it's counterproductive to do anything other than help educate each other because we all only know a fraction of what is out there. If my 5 year old son caught a 36 in. musky tomorrow then we'd take a picture, frame it, and have the memories of that catch for years to come. If it were 10 years ago, I would have mounted it to accomplish the same thing. The difference now versus then is based on what I've learned over the years from people no different than those on this site. As long as we keep things in perspective we can all use forums such as these to make fishing for everyone a better experience. Okay.....I'm done preaching.


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## GETTIN' THERE

OK guys here is the question.

Besides handling the fish as little as possible, what is the correct way to release a ski. I have not had the pleasure yet, but I will. I have tried to educate myself, but this thread is a prime example why I have no interest in joining a club. I love to fish but could care less about politics or competing. When I do catch this beast, I want a picture then I am going to do my best to revive and release. I don't care if it is a 36" or if it is a 55" monster either way I could not justify the expense to mount A) either the fish itself or B) have a replica made. So...if the fish gill hooks itself and is bleeding out
what do I do?

With the DNR stocking program success comes a lot of new anglers to the sport, many who just want to catch a muskie to say they have. These anglers I am sure have a different view / opinion to what constitutes a trophy as opposed to the seasoned veteran. May the muskie gods look on you favorably .. and just maybe while you are up on the big lake this year either
around B can or the islands, that toothy critter on the end of your line won't
be an eye, but an angry ski !


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## ShutUpNFish

I want everyone here to know that I respect and actually read into/listen to all of your opinions...I certainly did not intend to direct anything I said to any one specific person. Its all about an attitude which I feel has NO place in this circle of what should be a union of sportsmen and friends.

Good Luck on the water this year boys...be safe and maybe we will see you out there!

Addressing the above post:

When you intend on releasing a fish, ALWAYS give it your best shot. Bleeding gills or not...theres still a chance the bleeding will stop/clot once the fish is submerged. I like to support the fish under the belly gently and gently holding the tail section...you can rock the fish back and forth, but very gently...no need to violently force water in and out of its gills. From time to time, I let go of the fish to see if it begins to balance itself while suspended in the water. If it starts to turn on its side, help it back upright until it can finally support itself and swim away on its own. IMO, the key is not how you release it or the technique, but your overall routine while that fish is out of the water. Minimizing the time that fish is out of the water should be your #1 goal when intending to release a fish. Most of the fish I catch anymore, never even leave the water. However, if you must handle that fish for a photo, do it as fast as you possibly can being careful enough not to hurt or damage the fish in anyway...and I'm sure you can figure out proper handling since there are so many varying opinions on this as well. 

*Here is the routine we follow in my boat:*

- fight the fish to the boat and when the FISH is ready....Boga or Net the fish, holding it over the side
still in the water.

- remove all hooks with either pliers or bolt cutters and get the lure away. (NEVER NEVER NEVER - lift the 
fish into the boat while the lure is still in it like you see on some of these TV shows! WHich really bothers me)

- If a photo is necessary, lift the fish into the boat by the outer gill-plate and supporting the weight of its
body with your other hand, take a few quick shots and back into the water.

- Using this method enables the fish to be out of its environment for literally seconds...as much time as it typically takes a person to take a snapshot. Unless, of course, its my mom!

Finally, not only should newbies to ANY sport be educated by those who are seasoned anglers...more importantly, they have an obligation to research and educate themselves before ever embarking on such adventures. As my pap used to always tell me....Preperation for anything in life is 80% of the battle and when you're prepared and determined, you will find success. Hope this helps.


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## GETTIN' THERE

Thanks *ShutUpandFish*. All very good info. Pretty much covers everything I have learned to this point, both talking to veterans and attending seminars "trying to educate myself". Just thought that since this thread had gone in the direction it had, someone "preferably a seasoned vet" should state what the proper release method should be. I was however unsure about the bleeding out part and glad to hear that I still have a reasonable chance to successfully release the fish


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## fffffish

One thing to watch for if you need to bring the fish in to the boat. 
The fins will start to turn red the redder they get the more stress is on the fish once they become bright red you have most likely lost the battle. 
If you have a carpeted boat get small a piece of vinyl flooring to put over the carpet and wet it down this will cool it and make it slippery you dont want to put a fish on a hot dry deck it will remove the slime and can cause mortality at a later time.


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## esox62

yeah i would still try to release if she seemed to be bleeding out. hold her submerged for a bit and try not to move fish backward in the water. you can swim her tail right to left with your hand after a minute or two and she may swim away. if worse comes to worse maybe a shore fisherman will take her home to eat if she just floats.ive stayed with fish for 20 minutes or more. sometimes they come back up after release and you have to do it all over.also ive revived fish in my livewell with the water coming in the well going directly through her gills for a couple minutes, always works. also boga grips are not the preferred method for a new muskie fisherman. they can destroy teeth and a headshake could be deadly with a pair if your not holding the muskie horizontal. and yes definitely unhook in the water. when i net the fish, i can lock my net right into my rod holder{down east} and it becomes a fish pen over the side and i work on the fish in the net. in the heat of the summer they shouldnt even come out of the water as the stress from the fight combined with 80 degree water is a killer. most times in these situations i dont even use the net, just grab the hooks with your pliers and release right in the water. take some in the water photos, you dont have to have pics of every muskie you catch. water photos are actually more cool. anyway, good luck to you. this is a great thread, alot of very good info here and comments about the whole muskie scene..


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## Weatherby

GETTIN' THERE,

If you go to www.soma56.com and click the SOMA Research link on the left there is an article entitled Catch & Release How's and Why's. 

It is the best article I've ever seen concerning catch and release. It was written by a fellow muskie fisherman (John Underhill) from Minnesota. It should answer all your questions.

As far as a fish bleeding out, it happens. If the fish cannot be released live, then by all means take it home. If you do not/cannot eat it/mount it I'm sure someone in need would gladly take the meat off your hands. Just please do not leave it to float.


If any muskie club is worth a dime its members would never bash anyone for keeping a fish. Please don't let those thoughts stop you from researching a club to join if you ever decide to. Most clubs I know have open meetings. Go check out a meeting or three, ask any and all questions you may have, and see what they are about before making a decision.


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## buzzgn

i recall that about 25 years ago, the state stocked 600 advanced fingerlings in the sandusky river in an attempt to establish a population in the bay.....never heard the results. also talked years ago to a retired commercial fisherman who was very knowledgeable, he told me that they would pick up one or two a year in their nets....some very large. Due to proximity to the detroit river and st. clair, there must be a decent population in the extreme western basin. Conditions would be perfect there.....have also heard of fish taken in mentor lagoons.


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## GETTIN' THERE

Thanks guys, some very good info here. I am sure I am not the only newbie
reading this thread.


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## esoxangler

:TEvery year I hear of a few muskies being caught in the Cleveland area while trolling or of the breakwall. Also heard of em caught at Hotwaters/Lorain, and river mouths out East. I do target pike Spring and Fall in Cleveland with good sucsess.


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