# Gas tax



## PromiseKeeper (Apr 14, 2004)

Just a few years ago, we bought a hybrid vehicle. Awesome mileage! Because we bought a fuel efficient "green" vehicle, we received a generous tax incentive. Now, with the new gas tax that we all get to pay, hybrid owners will now be penalized an additional $100 per year for owning a fuel efficient "green" vehicle. I know I'm not alone. All the diesel owners get to pay double what the gas engine vehicles pay. The electric vehicle owners get to pay a flat $200. I guess I get that since they would otherwise be paying zero. But what about the horse drawn vehicles that use the road? They will get the benefit for nothing? This is about as clear as mud!


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## bountyhunter (Apr 28, 2004)

I agree .


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## DJA (Jun 18, 2004)

Yes maybe the gas tax is outdated, maybe it should just be a wheel tax like $150 per wheel regardless of what you drive? But what about the salesman who drives 50,000 miles a year compared to the elderly gentleman who drives 6,000 a year- that wouldn't be fair? So maybe it should be a mileage tax? So why should a fella with a vehicle that gets 20mpg have to foot the bill for more road repairs than the fella that gets 40 mpg- lots of questions


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

Horse drawn vehicles should be required to pay a tax, and clean up their generated road apples so we cycled don’t have to dodge them, or clean their residue off our bikes.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

why not just do away with gas and wheel tax and let the roads go to crap like thay already do. then we would all have to slow down.
sherman


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## chadwimc (Jun 27, 2007)

Ruh roh, Shaggy! Certain groups and all that...

I live 6 miles from Kentucky. 13 miles from Indiana. I may buy fuel there for a while just out of spite...


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## DJA (Jun 18, 2004)

Nearly all of the surrounding States were already higher than Ohio


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

You are all missing the point. Are any roads in Ohio actually going to be fixed? The last 10 years have been an embarrassment for Ohio drivers. We are now paying a hefty tax for road repair. 
Does anybody here really expect that to happen?--Tim


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## saugmon (Jun 14, 2006)

Wow said:


> You are all missing the point. Are any roads in Ohio actually going to be fixed? The last 10 years have been an embarrassment for Ohio drivers. We are now paying a hefty tax for road repair.
> Does anybody here really expect that to happen?--Tim
> 
> View attachment 312763


Over here in west logan county,they put brand new pavement on county roads 58,59,and 60.Very few houses on them but 60 has a trustee on that road. I'm on a more heavily traveled county rd 91 and they put freaking chip seal on it last week.You talking about a rude awakening.

Years ago there was a huge fuel tax surplus. So large,the huge construction firms suing the government and get them to spend that surplus.Then that surplus disappeared!!!! This was prior to that bridge collapsing in minneapolis/st paul.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

The gas tax is about as fair as it gets until they develop the technology to track your odometer and transmit the info to the state so they can send you a tax bill. 

The tax that was approved was significantly less than what the governor and ODOT said was needed to maintain the roads. The tax is still less than the surrounding states. This tax will only be just enough to maintain the roads and bridges in the state they are in now. Don't expect to see any improvements. 

Part of the reason that the tax needed to be increased is because cars are more fuel efficient and are driving more miles on the roads with less gas. So, they tear up the roads more, but pay less to fix them. The total fuel tax collected by the state has not gone up because of better fuel efficiency despite there being more cars on the road.


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## Bluewalleye (Jun 1, 2009)

Wow said:


> You are all missing the point. Are any roads in Ohio actually going to be fixed? The last 10 years have been an embarrassment for Ohio drivers. We are now paying a hefty tax for road repair.
> Does anybody here really expect that to happen?--Tim
> 
> View attachment 312763


If this was truly the case then there would never be orange cones anywhere. And we all know that isn't the case. You guys who have lived in Ohio all your lives have no idea how pathetic most roads are in other states. And those other states pay a lot more in gas tax then Ohio does. I will just pay the new price and be happy that most of the roads I travel are very well maintained and a lot smoother then some of the other states I travel in. And pay more for there gas while in those states. JMO


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

most of the tax on gas was for road improvement but has been used for other pet projects. how long will it take before this road tax is used for other things? they raised taxes when oil and gas was cheap. where did that money go? just to many unanswered questions on where other road tax money goes.
sherman


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

In Ohio Speedway ought to be ponying up some money to contribute to our roads.....they already manipulate gas consumers and control the entire state's pricing. Record profits and yet they receive tax incentives from OH municipalities to build and monopolize the state more. Impact Indiana and Michigan greatly too, but they totally control pricing in OH.

Search: The Speedway Effect

2 weeks ago I filled up my truck in southern TN for $2.10 per gallon. It was $2.10 - $2.29 all the way through central KY. I could find nothing less than $2.59+ northern KY and all of OH (thanks Speedway). 

I gave up complaining about taxes. Back in college I did a special project attempting to accumulate TOTAL tax the average U.S citizen is subject to. This attempted to capture ALL tax - sales tax, property tax, social security tax, income tax, excise tax, state and local taxes, gasoline tax, sin taxes, etc. Realizing the large number of variables I took a case study approach based on tax filing status and corresponding data available at the time from consumer reporting data agencies. I recall a married couple with AGI falling in the 10% federal bracket with 2 children receiving right at 41% of every dollar earned - the remaining went to taxes. It got even worse for higher earners. This was far from perfect. However, the illustration was powerful and showed we are paying more taxes currently than any point in previous history. 

With interest on debt doubling as a percentage of total spending over the next 10 years, a relatively concrete fixed defense budget (or growing), social security in need of help, a failing healthcare system in ACA, and an outdated power grid there is only reason to believe we will all be asked for more over the next couple decades and not less. 

It is a great system - they thought of every way possible to get your treasure when they set it up. And if you find a way to avoid it, the pen meets paper and you now owe. Such is life...man has been complaining about taxes since before monetary currency existed.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

bdawg said:


> The gas tax is about as fair as it gets until they develop the technology to track your odometer and transmit the info to the state so they can send you a tax bill.
> 
> The tax that was approved was significantly less than what the governor and ODOT said was needed to maintain the roads. The tax is still less than the surrounding states. This tax will only be just enough to maintain the roads and bridges in the state they are in now. Don't expect to see any improvements.
> 
> Part of the reason that the tax needed to be increased is because cars are more fuel efficient and are driving more miles on the roads with less gas. So, they tear up the roads more, but pay less to fix them. The total fuel tax collected by the state has not gone up because of better fuel efficiency despite there being more cars on the road.


+1


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

I thought this tax "is going to save lives"


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

RiparianRanger said:


> Sources? Examples?


don't need them. where has all the money gone? it sure hasn't fixed the roads.


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

How many million are they spending on remodeling the Governors mansion because Dewine is moving in to it?? Have to generate it somewhere.


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## chadwimc (Jun 27, 2007)

I just filled up at $2.59 per in Indiana. $2.79 and up in Ohio...


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

PromiseKeeper said:


> Just a few years ago, we bought a hybrid vehicle. Awesome mileage! Because we bought a fuel efficient "green" vehicle, we received a generous tax incentive. Now, with the new gas tax that we all get to pay, hybrid owners will now be penalized an additional $100 per year for owning a fuel efficient "green" vehicle. I know I'm not alone. All the diesel owners get to pay double what the gas engine vehicles pay. The electric vehicle owners get to pay a flat $200. I guess I get that since they would otherwise be paying zero. But what about the horse drawn vehicles that use the road? They will get the benefit for nothing? This is about as clear as mud!


Don't think the horses put on 12,000 mile per year on the roads though...

Even with the additional tax, I'm paying less for the roads than I was 15 years ago.. It's only about $50 per year per car @ 15,000 miles per year.


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

Fish-N-Fool said:


> In Ohio Speedway ought to be ponying up some money to contribute to our roads.....they already manipulate gas consumers and control the entire state's pricing. Record profits and yet they receive tax incentives from OH municipalities to build and monopolize the state more. Impact Indiana and Michigan greatly too, but they totally control pricing in OH.
> 
> Search: The Speedway Effect
> 
> ...


Speedway is owned by Marathon. Marathon drives the sawtooth price fluctuations. Speedway is just one if their outlet chains and usually is the first to go up. Hence Speedway’s moniker “the price gouge leaders”.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

This is already a done deal so there noting going to change...you guys should go out fishing and do something productive with you lives.
Sherman...why do you care, you don't live here.


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## Workingman (Jan 21, 2016)

It is what it is, grab your ankles! Again!!!


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## whal (Jul 11, 2012)

You guys need to come to Pennsylvania and enjoy the " highest gas tax in the nation year after year", and it's still not enough.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

whal said:


> You guys need to come to Pennsylvania and enjoy the " highest gas tax in the nation year after year", and it's still not enough.


Yep! There was an article in the Youngstown Vincidator today about Pennsylvanians driving over here to fill up. A couple of cousins from the Pittsburgh area drove up last weekend so a bunch of us could get together for brunch. They both remarked how cheap our gas was. 

I didn't notice any big spike on Monday. Saw gas available locally for $2.45.


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## FinsFurFeathers (Sep 14, 2009)

in my opinion the condition of the roads in Ohio is still behind most states because the crooked Voinovich brothers siphoned off all the tax dollars in the 90's. Georges brother kept getting the road construction bids.. HHMMM, gee I wonder why.. There were investigations but nothing ever came of it, mostly because Paul V died soon after the investigation was started... I have driven in probably 40 states including Alaska and Ohio roads are the worst in the country.. our tax dollars are just a slush fund for the politicians... Drain the swamp, in Ohio and the Nation's Capital!


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

FinsFurFeathers said:


> in my opinion the condition of the roads in Ohio is still behind most states because the crooked Voinovich brothers siphoned off all the tax dollars in the 90's. Georges brother kept getting the road construction bids.. HHMMM, gee I wonder why.. There were investigations but nothing ever came of it, mostly because Paul V died soon after the investigation was started... I have driven in probably 40 states including Alaska and Ohio roads are the worst in the country.. our tax dollars are just a slush fund for the politicians... Drain the swamp, in Ohio and the Nation's Capital!


Try driving through Michigan....


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

2.95 all over town this afternoon. Findlay, home of Marathon. Speedway corp offices in Tx.


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## Bluewalleye (Jun 1, 2009)

Snakecharmer said:


> Try driving through Michigan....


Amen to that. I am from there and there roads suck. And they pay A LOT more in gas tax then Ohio does. There governor is talking raising the gas tax another .45 cents a gallon. Do you really want to cry about the .11 cents Ohio is paying now?


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

Snakecharmer said:


> Try driving through Michigan....


I find Michigan not that bad when I go to manistee. They just bumped their speed to 75 as well I think. I dont recall needing to dodge potholes like I do on the Indiana turnpike! Boy from ohio border to darn near Elkhart that road is bad! Never see them work on that road yet the whole ohio turnpike just about repaved. I dont mind PA turnpike or 79 into pitt either. 

I hate the Indiana turnpike plus their toll booths and I pass are trash. Also last time thru couple weeks ago I crossed into Sturgis Michigan and saved 30 cents on gas vs indiana.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

crappiedude said:


> This is already a done deal so there noting going to change...you guys should go out fishing and do something productive with you lives.
> Sherman...why do you care, you don't live here.


because I buy gas in ohio when im going to erie and for the boat to fish. but I hate high taxes anywhere I drive and the roads still are in disrepair. but I shouldn't complain so much about something I have no say in.
sherman


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

The whole Indiana turnpike and I-69 problems are a direct result of then Governor Mike Pence.
Indiana's roads are a mess. Ohio's state roads are in relatively good shape with the exception of local roads in cities where the localities lost their state funding in recent years.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

In the last 5 years, a lot of local governments have started paving with chip seal instead of asphalt to save money and get more roads fixed. This extra money the local governments are getting from the fuel tax will help to avoid that. The state requires that all the money given to local governments from the fuel tax be used for road and bridge repair. This money won't be going to any pet projects that aren't roadway related.


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

RiparianRanger said:


> OK. Let’s take a look at some data... The state brought in about $1.8 billion in fuel tax revenue last year. About $750 million of that is restricted to the highway fund. The remainder hits the general fund with various distributions mandated by law. The link below discusses those distributions, though I believe the law hiking unleaded by 10.5 cents may have modified them. But since you claimed they were wasted (past tense) the below applies.
> It seems the culprit for the road disrepair you reference may be more a function of inadequate revenue growth rather than purported waste.


By your numbers, less than half of state fuel tax goes to the highway fund, so the largest portion of fuel tax does NOT go to roads. What’s wrong w/that? Is the state using drivers as a cash cow for other spending? 

Since the tax is based on per gallon, flat revenue indicates flat gasoline sales. Are we still using the same amount we were 10 years go?


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

cincinnati said:


> By your numbers, less than half of state fuel tax goes to the highway fund, so the largest portion of fuel tax does NOT go to roads. What’s wrong w/that? Is the state using drivers as a cash cow for other spending?
> 
> Since the tax is based on per gallon, flat revenue indicates flat gasoline sales. Are we still using the same amount we were 10 years go?





cincinnati said:


> By your numbers, less than half of state fuel tax goes to the highway fund, so the largest portion of fuel tax does NOT go to roads. What’s wrong w/that? Is the state using drivers as a cash cow for other spending?
> 
> Since the tax is based on per gallon, flat revenue indicates flat gasoline sales. Are we still using the same amount we were 10 years go?


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

matticito said:


> I find Michigan not that bad when I go to manistee. They just bumped their speed to 75 as well I think. I dont recall needing to dodge potholes like I do on the Indiana turnpike! Boy from ohio border to darn near Elkhart that road is bad! Never see them work on that road yet the whole ohio turnpike just about repaved. I dont mind PA turnpike or 79 into pitt either.
> 
> I hate the Indiana turnpike plus their toll booths and I pass are trash. Also last time thru couple weeks ago I crossed into Sturgis Michigan and saved 30 cents on gas vs indiana.


Get off the main roads in Michigan and tell me what you think. I'm not talking in the boonies in the UP....I'm talking 10 miles from the State line out in the Country. 

Ohio has GREAT roads in comparison to other States.


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## flounder (May 15, 2004)

Stupid question but are the marina stations on the water subject to the extra 10.5 cents per gallon?

Here's a chart on the increase that Cleveland.com had in an article earlier this week. 

https://www.cleveland.com/datacentr...ease-in-ohios-gasoline-tax-will-cost-you.html

Cost of Ohio gas tax increase
This chart is based on the cost of increasing Ohio’s gasoline tax 10.5 cents per gallon.

Miles
per
gallon 10k/year 15k 20k 25k 30k 35k 40k
10 mpg $105 $158 $210 $263 $315 $368 $420
11 mpg $95 $143 $191 $239 $286 $334 $382
12 mpg $88 $131 $175 $219 $263 $306 $350
13 mpg $81 $121 $162 $202 $242 $283 $323
14 mpg $75 $113 $150 $188 $225 $263 $300
15 mpg $70 $105 $140 $175 $210 $245 $280
16 mpg $66 $98 $131 $164 $197 $230 $263
17 mpg $62 $93 $124 $154 $185 $216 $247
18 mpg $58 $88 $117 $146 $175 $204 $233
19 mpg $55 $83 $111 $138 $166 $193 $221
20 mpg $53 $79 $105 $131 $158 $184 $210
21 mpg $50 $75 $100 $125 $150 $175 $200
22 mpg $48 $72 $95 $119 $143 $167 $191
23 mpg $46 $68 $91 $114 $137 $160 $183
24 mpg $44 $66 $88 $109 $131 $153 $175
25 mpg $42 $63 $84 $105 $126 $147 $168
26 mpg $40 $61 $81 $101 $121 $141 $162
27 mpg $39 $58 $78 $97 $117 $136 $156
28 mpg $38 $56 $75 $94 $113 $131 $150
29 mpg $36 $54 $72 $91 $109 $127 $145
30 mpg $35 $53 $70 $88 $105 $123 $140
31 mpg $34 $51 $68 $85 $102 $119 $135
32 mpg $33 $49 $66 $82 $98 $115 $131
33 mpg $32 $48 $64 $80 $95 $111 $127
34 mpg $31 $46 $62 $77 $93 $108 $124
35 mpg $30 $45 $60 $75 $90 $105 $120
36 mpg $29 $44 $58 $73 $88 $102 $117
37 mpg $28 $43 $57 $71 $85 $99 $114
38 mpg $28 $41 $55 $69 $83 $97 $111
39 mpg $27 $40 $54 $67 $81 $94 $108
40 mpg $26 $39 $53 $66 $79 $92 $105
41 mpg $26 $38 $51 $64 $77 $90 $102
42 mpg $25 $38 $50 $63 $75 $88 $100
43 mpg $24 $37 $49 $61 $73 $85 $98
44 mpg $24 $36 $48 $60 $72 $84 $95
45 mpg $23 $35 $47 $58 $70 $82 $93
46 mpg $23 $34 $46 $57 $68 $80 $91
47 mpg $22 $34 $45 $56 $67 $78 $89
48 mpg $22 $33 $44 $55 $66 $77 $88
49 mpg $21 $32 $43 $54 $64 $75 $86
50 mpg $21 $32 $42 $53 $63 $74 $84
Rich Exner, data analysis editor for cleveland.com, writes about numbers on a variety of topics. Follow on Twitter @RichExner. Find data-related stories at cleveland.com/datacentral.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Bluewalleye said:


> Amen to that. I am from there and there roads suck. And they pay A LOT more in gas tax then Ohio does. There governor is talking raising the gas tax another .45 cents a gallon. Do you really want to cry about the .11 cents Ohio is paying now?


Agree...your roads do suck up there! 
Not counting the pot holes and breaking up pavement, the constant 'thumping' (speaking mostly of 94) drives people crazy...of course...being from there, you know that better than most.
The insane weight your trucks are allowed to carry surely doesn't help the road situation there. Of course, the amount of rock that's mined/hauled around that state as well as hauled in from Canada is huge and a big part of Michigan economy.
Not an engineer, but with weight limits that high, plus the expansion/contraction caused by the drastic weather changes, I don't think there's a road material made that will hold up to a constant pounding of that kind of weight.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

I didn't know ichigan had bad roads, but I did hear the quality of water up there is superb!


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

This is something that really irks me. Anybody that lives on a state road has probably seen this. In the winter when they plow the snow, the snow plows have these things called skid shoes. They are to keep the plow blade from making constant direct contact to the road. Well, these skid shoes will eventually wear out, and when they do, that causes the blade to be fully in contact with the road surface. That's why you see all the sparks coming from under the plow truck, and hear them banging on every expansion joint and pot hole because the skid shoes are wore out.

Now, what happens when the blade is fully in contact? It rips out all the pothole patches, catches on and tears at the expansion joints, and the bridge approaches. That's why the roads go to crap in the winter, and they spend all summer, spending $Millions of OUR money, fixing the damage they caused by their negligence in the winter. Oh, yea, we also get to buy them new plow blades too, instead of the much cheaper skid shoes.

The head of ODOT should be an elected position. If the roads suck because you cannot get a handle on your own maintenance, you get voted out and replaced. But no, instead of someone being held accountable, they are raising the taxes on the people to keep paying for their mistakes or, ignorance.


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

fastwater said:


> Agree...your roads do suck up there!
> Not counting the pot holes and breaking up pavement, the constant 'thumping' (speaking mostly of 94) drives people crazy...of course...being from there, you know that better than most.
> The insane weight your trucks are allowed to carry surely doesn't help the road situation there. Of course, the amount of rock that's mined/hauled around that state as well as hauled in from Canada is huge and a big part of Michigan economy.
> Not an engineer, but with weight limits that high, plus the expansion/contraction caused by the drastic weather changes, I don't think there's a road material made that will hold up to a constant pounding of that kind of weight.


Yes there allowed to gross 160,000 # up there with 11 axles


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## Workingman (Jan 21, 2016)

Government is never going to say "we have enough money, we're good!" They always want more and more. Even IF they did spend it wisely, I still want to keep as much of MY money as I can. I get baffled by getting taxed on used car transactions, that car was already fully taxed when purchased new. Then again on its value every time it changes hands.... just seems crazy


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

RiparianRanger said:


> Two things: First, not my numbers. They're the state's by way of financial audit. Two, the links provided show how the remainder is distributed.
> 
> As the title suggest the highway fund is directed to highways, but not every mile of street, road and bridge in the state is the jurisdiction of the State of Ohio. This is why some of the fuel tax revenue is distributed to cities and counties and local governmental units to help defray the expense of those capital items.
> 
> And thanks to Snakecharmer for taking the time to read the docs provided in the links and highlight the pertinent table in the post above. I'm not a fan of taxes but I am also not fond of going through life misinformed. Blasting a 5% increase in the cost of gas as wasteful spending without any evidence to backup such a claim is lazy. Our republic depends on informed voters. There's enough evidence in those links to support the state's claim a few extra cents/gallon were necessary for roadway upkeep.


 Thank you for finding the info. I only "snipped" the table you provided!


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

RiparianRanger said:


> Two things: First, not my numbers. They're the state's by way of financial audit. Two, the links provided show how the remainder is distributed.
> 
> As the title suggest the highway fund is directed to highways, but not every mile of street, road and bridge in the state is the jurisdiction of the State of Ohio. This is why some of the fuel tax revenue is distributed to cities and counties and local governmental units to help defray the expense of those capital items.
> 
> And thanks to Snakecharmer for taking the time to read the docs provided in the links and highlight the pertinent table in the post above. I'm not a fan of taxes but I am also not fond of going through life misinformed. Blasting a 5% increase in the cost of gas as wasteful spending without any evidence to backup such a claim is lazy. Our republic depends on informed voters. There's enough evidence in those links to support the state's claim a few extra cents/gallon were necessary for roadway upkeep.


While that may be true, there still is no accountability. If the director thought they might lose their job because the roads sucked, I'd bet they would be doing a better job.


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

$2.48 at Costco @ 6pm today.
$2.55 at Speedway.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

All this is good for, is being better informed. Plenty on here are well informed. However! There are two ways to change this...Slim and None,and Slim left town!


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

cincinnati said:


> By your numbers, less than half of state fuel tax goes to the highway fund, so the largest portion of fuel tax does NOT go to roads. What’s wrong w/that? Is the state using drivers as a cash cow for other spending?
> 
> Since the tax is based on per gallon, flat revenue indicates flat gasoline sales. Are we still using the same amount we were 10 years go?


I believe that was one of the reasons cited. An unintended consequence of better gas mileage, and hybrid and electric vehicles.


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## steelhead steve (May 5, 2012)

what I don't like is you are guaranteed a gallon of gas but there is no guarantee on octane and for those that travel out of state I know my gas milage increases when I buy gas outside of ohio and sometimes by as much as 2=3 mpg. if PA rejects a batch of gasoline guess where they send it. and nobody should be taxes extra for having a hybrid or electric car if so why not motocycles that get 30-150mpg. that's my opinion and im sticking to it.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

steelhead steve said:


> what I don't like is you are guaranteed a gallon of gas but there is no guarantee on octane and for those that travel out of state I know my gas milage increases when I buy gas outside of ohio and sometimes by as much as 2=3 mpg. if PA rejects a batch of gasoline guess where they send it. and nobody should be taxes extra for having a hybrid or electric car if so why not motocycles that get 30-150mpg. that's my opinion and im sticking to it.


or cetane rating for diesel fuel.

We all use gas with 10% ethanol, which the EPA says lowers mpg by at least 3%. Now, it's probably going to 15%, so at least a 4.5% reduction in mpg. So, 4.5% more gas consumption equals more tax revenue.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> View attachment 312897





flounder said:


> Stupid question but are the marina stations on the water subject to the extra 10.5 cents per gallon?
> 
> Here's a chart on the increase that Cleveland.com had in an article earlier this week.
> 
> ...


all thats good but what about the 22% that goes to local government. how much goes into the general fund?

it would only cost me about 65.00 extra each yr at 24 mpg and 15000 miles per yr. thats not so bad when the total for the state is millions or more. but if its used for the roads then I guess we shouldn't complain to much.



steelhead steve said:


> what I don't like is you are guaranteed a gallon of gas but there is no guarantee on octane and for those that travel out of state I know my gas milage increases when I buy gas outside of ohio and sometimes by as much as 2=3 mpg. if PA rejects a batch of gasoline guess where they send it. and nobody should be taxes extra for having a hybrid or electric car if so why not motocycles that get 30-150mpg. that's my opinion and im sticking to it.


I have gave this some thought and I think anyone who uses the roads should be charged taxes. be it amish in there carts, electric cars, or trucks like the one I drive that gets a whopping 12 mpg on the highway empty and a little over 9 pulling the boat and a little over 8 with the camper.

I don't think a wheel tax is fair at all. I pay the same wheel tax on my motorhome as the ones driving thousands of miles each yr. I put around 1000 miles on mine most yrs. but then gas tax isn't fair either as I only get 6 mpg. I put 60 miles I use 6 gallon you put 60 miles on your car and use 2 gallon. but I would much rather pay a gas tax than the wheel tax we pay here in Indiana.

another thing I really hate here in Indiana is if I buy a car or trailer that needs work and sets for 5 or 6 yrs while not being plated I have to pay back wheel and excise tax for the whole time. even though it never touched the road the wheel and excise tax is the same as if it was on the road. I buy an old mustang and title it then restore it and it takes me 10 or 12 yrs. the tax is 100.00 per yr. so I go in to plate the car I pay 1000.00 to 1200.00 just to get it on the road.

I bought a camper last spring in ohio and it had a salvage title. well thats not good enough for Indiana. I had to get a title but couldn't get plates yet. I paid for the title and paid sales tax. then I had to fill out paperwork and send it along with my new title to the license branch in indy along with another fee. they kept sending it back wanting more information until the summer was gone. I finally got a new Indiana salvage title in mid oct. so I wasnt going to use it so I waited until this yr to plate it. last yrs excise tax was pro rated so it wasnt that bad. but I paid full price on the wheel tax. so they charged me for plating it late, last yrs excise and wheel tax, this yrs excise and wheel tax, plus the plates. it ended up costing me 129.35 just to plate an old used camper. I had plans to just park it in tn and leave it. but I needed plates to get it there.
sherman

also I think the amish should have to plate the buggies and pay wheel tax if there is one. that would be there fair share for using the roads. this is just an opinion and not meant to start a war.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

If you wear glasses or contacts you just caught a little break in Ohio. No more sales tax on them. 

And reading Sherman's horror stories from Indiana, makes Ohio's DMV not seem so bad!


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## loves2fishinohio (Apr 14, 2011)

3.15 for mid-grade unleaded yesterday in my parts. Feels like 9 years ago.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

steelhead steve said:


> what I don't like is you are guaranteed a gallon of gas but there is no guarantee on octane and for those that travel out of state I know my gas milage increases when I buy gas outside of ohio and sometimes by as much as 2=3 mpg. if PA rejects a batch of gasoline guess where they send it. and nobody should be taxes extra for having a hybrid or electric car if so why not motocycles that get 30-150mpg. that's my opinion and im sticking to it.





sherman51 said:


> also I think the amish should have to plate the buggies and pay wheel tax if there is one. that would be there fair share for using the roads. this is just an opinion and not meant to start a war.


steelhead, I have heard that about the octane, but need to respectfully disagree with you about the electric/hybrids ... those electric and hybrid cars use the roads the same as everyone else, if you use them you should pay for them, no ifs, ands, or buts ... that includes, as Sherman noted, the Amish, as well as bicycles that drive on the streets ... motorcycles use gas and consequently pay that tax, they get the same benefits of the mileage as anyone who wants to drive around in a big roller skate that gets 40 MPG ... my bro in law can afford to drive a Tesla ... which by the way weighs considerably more than a regular car of that size because of all the batteries and consequently puts more wear and tear on the roads ... but whines like a whore that hasn't been paid about paying extra for his plates for that very reason ... they also drive Prius hybrids, it's nice to be married to a doctor  frankly, people that can afford that technology shouldn't be whining about a few dollars or get a pass on upkeep of the infrastructure just because they're able to afford those vehicles ... what are we gonna do when there are a much higher percentage of those vehicles? the roads will still need fixed, I think those vehicles already get some sort of tax break, are the gas powered cars supposed to subsidize these folks?


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## steelhead steve (May 5, 2012)

baitguy said:


> steelhead, I have heard that about the octane, but need to respectfully disagree with you about the electric/hybrids ... those electric and hybrid cars use the roads the same as everyone else, if you use them you should pay for them, no ifs, ands, or buts ... that includes, as Sherman noted, the Amish, as well as bicycles that drive on the streets ... motorcycles use gas and consequently pay that tax, they get the same benefits of the mileage as anyone who wants to drive around in a big roller skate that gets 40 MPG ... my bro in law can afford to drive a Tesla ... which by the way weighs considerably more than a regular car of that size because of all the batteries and consequently puts more wear and tear on the roads ... but whines like a whore that hasn't been paid about paying extra for his plates for that very reason ... they also drive Prius hybrids, it's nice to be married to a doctor  frankly, people that can afford that technology shouldn't be whining about a few dollars or get a pass on upkeep of the infrastructure just because they're able to afford those vehicles ... what are we gonna do when there are a much higher percentage of those vehicles? the roads will still need fixed, I think those vehicles already get some sort of tax break, are the gas powered cars supposed to subsidize these folks? [/QUOTE if you have a tesla you pay a lot higher electric bill every month and that has state tax on it so you don't get away free from tax but most hybrids get 34- 52 mpg so you get a penatly for being thrifty a lot of hybrids don't get as much gas milage as a non hybrid so why a penalty if you own a 4 stroke outboard should you be taxed because it uses less gas than a 2 stroke. and a lot of motorcycles get over 80 mpg.


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

steelhead steve said:


> what I don't like is you are guaranteed a gallon of gas but there is no guarantee on octane and for those that travel out of state I know my gas milage increases when I buy gas outside of ohio and sometimes by as much as 2=3 mpg. if PA rejects a batch of gasoline guess where they send it. and nobody should be taxes extra for having a hybrid or electric car if so why not motocycles that get 30-150mpg. that's my opinion and im sticking to it.


Each time a terminal gets a pipeline the gas is not used until they test it these terminals has a little lab in them for this so it has to pass before it can be loaded .Gas now is 83.5 octane then add 10% ethanol makes it 87 octane ethanol burns hotter than gas. At one time a rack in Columbus we had to mix it ourselves so much ethanol then so much 83.5 and then 93.5 if it was premium but now its all automated I hauled fuel for 16 yrs


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

baitguy said:


> steelhead, I have heard that about the octane, but need to respectfully disagree with you about the electric/hybrids ... those electric and hybrid cars use the roads the same as everyone else, if you use them you should pay for them, no ifs, ands, or buts ... that includes, as Sherman noted, the Amish, as well as bicycles that drive on the streets ... motorcycles use gas and consequently pay that tax, they get the same benefits of the mileage as anyone who wants to drive around in a big roller skate that gets 40 MPG ... my bro in law can afford to drive a Tesla ... which by the way weighs considerably more than a regular car of that size because of all the batteries and consequently puts more wear and tear on the roads ... but whines like a whore that hasn't been paid about paying extra for his plates for that very reason ... they also drive Prius hybrids, it's nice to be married to a doctor  frankly, people that can afford that technology shouldn't be whining about a few dollars or get a pass on upkeep of the infrastructure just because they're able to afford those vehicles ... what are we gonna do when there are a much higher percentage of those vehicles? the roads will still need fixed, I think those vehicles already get some sort of tax break, are the gas powered cars supposed to subsidize these folks?


Back in the day it used to be said, usually referring to high horsepower, low mileage vehicles, "If you can afford the vehicle, you can afford the gas!" I guess we need to come up with another phrase for the new technology.


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## steelhead steve (May 5, 2012)

slimdaddy45 said:


> Each time a terminal gets a pipeline the gas is not used until they test it these terminals has a little lab in them for this so it has to pass before it can be loaded .Gas now is 83.5 octane then add 10% ethanol makes it 87 octane ethanol burns hotter than gas. At one time a rack in Columbus we had to mix it ourselves so much ethanol then so much 83.5 and then 93.5 if it was premium but now its all automated I hauled fuel for 16 yrs


 seem odd that no matter what state I buy gas in outside ohio I get better gas milage and I even noticed it smell different in other states than ohio but I didn't ever work in that industry but in my defence there is no guaentee on octane


slimdaddy45 said:


> Each time a terminal gets a pipeline the gas is not used until they test it these terminals has a little lab in them for this so it has to pass before it can be loaded .Gas now is 83.5 octane then add 10% ethanol makes it 87 octane ethanol burns hotter than gas. At one time a rack in Columbus we had to mix it ourselves so much ethanol then so much 83.5 and then 93.5 if it was premium but now its all automated I hauled fuel for 16 yrs


well im not going to argue with what you posted but I know a driver that delivers fuel to get go and he comes out of PA and his claim is they couldn't deliver to the stores there because it didn't meet octain standards in PA so it goes to ohio . I also know on the pumps at some stations they use the rm/2 method but still try to find a law that says it has to be what they claim because I sure cant find one.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

I read, years ago, that the octane rating of gasoline had nothing to do with how "powerful" the gas was, but the amount of anti-knock compounds that were in it. Back in the late 90's, early 2000's, I had a Ford Ranger with the 3.0L six cylinder engine. On one way home from a sales route I had to pull that long grade from Warren to Rt 11 on SR 82. On regular gas that engine would knock like crazy! When I put Plus in it the knock went away, and I could pull that grade with ease.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

buckeyebowman said:


> I read, years ago, that the octane rating of gasoline had nothing to do with how "powerful" the gas was, but the amount of anti-knock compounds that were in it. Back in the late 90's, early 2000's, I had a Ford Ranger with the 3.0L six cylinder engine. On one way home from a sales route I had to pull that long grade from Warren to Rt 11 on SR 82. On regular gas that engine would knock like crazy! When I put Plus in it the knock went away, and I could pull that grade with ease.


Octane ratings are bigly misunderstood. Simplistically, higher octanes have higher flash points and require higher compression to cause the explosion. The various octanes are specific to an engines compression and timing. They have zero to do with quality.


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## jbo (Apr 24, 2014)

bdawg said:


> The gas tax is about as fair as it gets until they develop the technology to track your odometer and transmit the info to the state so they can send you a tax bill.
> 
> The tax that was approved was significantly less than what the governor and ODOT said was needed to maintain the roads. The tax is still less than the surrounding states. This tax will only be just enough to maintain the roads and bridges in the state they are in now. Don't expect to see any improvements.
> 
> Part of the reason that the tax needed to be increased is because cars are more fuel efficient and are driving more miles on the roads with less gas. So, they tear up the roads more, but pay less to fix them. The total fuel tax collected by the state has not gone up because of better fuel efficiency despite there being more cars on the road.


True, every time a new car comes out with better mileage ODOT gets a pay decrease while all there other cost goes up. 


Snakecharmer said:


> Don't think the horses put on 12,000 mile per year on the roads though...
> 
> Even with the additional tax, I'm paying less for the roads than I was 15 years ago.. It's only about $50 per year per car @ 15,000 miles per year.


Snake charmer you must get great fuel mileage. $50 is cheap. I’m around $300 for 12000 miles. In Amish country I noticed the horse and buggy’s tear the shoulders up with the steal tires on buggy and shoes on the horses. They should be charged a tax.


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## jbo (Apr 24, 2014)

Specwar said:


> How many million are they spending on remodeling the Governors mansion because Dewine is moving in to it?? Have to generate it somewhere.


The money can only go to roads and Bridges.


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## jbo (Apr 24, 2014)

I Fish said:


> Octane ratings are bigly misunderstood. Simplistically, higher octanes have higher flash points and require higher compression to cause the explosion. The various octanes are specific to an engines compression and timing. They have zero to do with quality.


Agree, very well said. 95% of the population believe high Octane is better gas. This is a case where you don't get what you pay for. With today’s engines the computer adjust the timing automatically for different octanes put in the cars. Some cars require because of engine design. With most your wasting your money.


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## Barry Pringle (Oct 5, 2016)

Wow said:


> You are all missing the point. Are any roads in Ohio actually going to be fixed? The last 10 years have been an embarrassment for Ohio drivers. We are now paying a hefty tax for road repair.
> Does anybody here really expect that to happen?--Tim
> 
> View attachment 312763


No. Another tax to spend on raises and toys. Did education ever get a raise after Lotto passed? NO


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## missing fishing (Oct 12, 2017)

PromiseKeeper said:


> Just a few years ago, we bought a hybrid vehicle. Awesome mileage! Because we bought a fuel efficient "green" vehicle, we received a generous tax incentive. Now, with the new gas tax that we all get to pay, hybrid owners will now be penalized an additional $100 per year for owning a fuel efficient "green" vehicle. I know I'm not alone. All the diesel owners get to pay double what the gas engine vehicles pay. The electric vehicle owners get to pay a flat $200. I guess I get that since they would otherwise be paying zero. But what about the horse drawn vehicles that use the road? They will get the benefit for nothing? This is about as clear as mud!


Don't be too hard on the horse drawn carriages, after all those deposits left along the shoulders keep the politicians fueled.


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## basser53 (May 14, 2005)

steelhead , Does any of this have to do with P.A.emissions testing?


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## steelhead steve (May 5, 2012)

basser53 said:


> steelhead , Does any of this have to do with P.A.emissions testing?


I have no idea what they do in PA my only comment is there is no law on the books in ohio about octain and I always get better mpg when I get gas out of state.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

jbo said:


> True, every time a new car comes out with better mileage ODOT gets a pay decrease while all there other cost goes up.
> 
> Snake charmer you must get great fuel mileage. $50 is cheap. I’m around $300 for 12000 miles. In Amish country I noticed the horse and buggy’s tear the shoulders up with the steal tires on buggy and shoes on the horses. They should be charged a tax.


The Equinox gets about 25 and the Corolla gets about 34.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

RiparianRanger said:


> Curious what you’re seeing regarding education spending. I checked State of Ohio expenditures going back to 1995 and education expense has virtually tripled. I understand the lotto was established in the ‘70s so maybe you have data I don’t.
> 
> In 1995, primary secondary and special education expenses were $4.85 billion across both general fund and special revenue funds (presumably includes lottery). Higher ed support from the same fund categories totaled $407.8 million. In 2000, those figures were $6.64B and $412.8M, respectively. In 2005, $10.4B and $2.37B, respectively. In 2010 during the depths of the recession, $11.9B and $2.64B. In 2015, $12.4B and $2.4B. And for fiscal year end 6/30/18, state expenditures on K-12 education totaled $12.9B and on higher ed $2.63B was expended.
> 
> Higher ed may have a valid gripe about reductions in state aid in recent years, but the trend over the last 25 or so years show K-12 spending has generally increased.


I think what he was trying to say is it is a shell game. For every dollar the lotto provides, the state cuts by the same amount, so the funding the schools get remains the same, just a different source.


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

RiparianRanger said:


> Hard to say without further analysis. Here’s what we do know: Education spending by the state has increased by over 265% since 1995. The cumulative price change (aka inflation) is about 65% over the same span. Ed spending has more than outpaced inflation the last 25 or so years.
> 
> Since 2005 (furthest back I could find data) the state has cut income tax rates. The top marginal rate in ‘05 was 7.185%, whereas today it is 4.997%. Also in 2005 the state began the phase out of the tangible personal property tax which completely phased out in 2008. To be fair, the state did enact a commercial activity tax to compensate schools and local governments for the loss of property tax base. Also state share of sales tax rate increased to 5% in 1981 and was bumped to 5.75% in 2013.
> 
> Generally speaking the the pattern is such that the state has lowered property taxes and income taxes while raising consumption taxes (sales & fuel, etc), all while expending more on education over time.


Are you in Ohio? I ask because not one time in that time period has my property taxes went down. Even during the "housing crisis" they went up, while property values went down. Furthermore, the new way they figure cauv has caused a considerable increase on rural farm land taxes.


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## Big Chief (Dec 16, 2005)

Gas tax is great! More road work! 
I’m a construction worker and that’s what feeds my family and pays my bills!


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## jbo (Apr 24, 2014)

Big Chief said:


> Gas tax is great! More road work!
> I’m a construction worker and that’s what feeds my family and pays my bills!


Big Chief, 
I make my living off the gas tax also. The thing about a gas tax is it’s not like other taxes in that when you get a raise you pay more in taxes automatically, when your property value goes up schools ect. Get an automatic raise. When you get a raise City taxes also go up. For these reasons I always vote down additional taxes. Roads are different they do not get automatic raises when we get raises in our pay checks unless more gals of gas are sold. For this reason the gas tax needs raised to keep in check with inflation.


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## chadwimc (Jun 27, 2007)

This morning gas in Cincinnati is at $2.99...
Six hundred yards across the Ohio river it was $2.41.
Guess where I purchased gasoline?

Cue up the Pretenders lyrics "...way to go Ohio..."


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

WV is in much the same pickle and it drives me to distraction that we keep building new road with no real plan to repair and maintain the ones we have,, let alone the new roads. 

And this is not a new issue, the same cycle of neglect, raise taxes or borrow, new road, repair, neglect, has been since I was born. 
It looks a lot like WV R and D a share conspiracy to use roads as a political sure thing election issue every few years. 

Fuel taxes as the primary way to fund roads is a lot like taxing tobacco to fund whatever. 
No matter how high the raise you know your tax revenues are going to decrease. More fuel efficiency, hybrids, the coming wave of electric vehicles,... Yes trucks and SUVs are hot right now but that will change and in a few short years we will all be right back in the same boat/pothole.


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

We have a Mini Cooper clubman. According to research the computer, doesn't compensate for octane. 93 is the only gas recommended. I watched the comparison at my mechanics garage. He and his brother are brilliant mechanics, with access to any information on vehicles that they are certified for. First question he asked me was, if I was using the right gas? They showed me the reasons why the correct fuel is necessary, I'm not a scientist, but I came away with the reasoning behind the use of proper fuel octane. And that there are vehicles that have a computer that can compensate for different fuels. Hybrids are some of them. But not our Mini. So taxes on premium fuel lightens the wallet.


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## jbo (Apr 24, 2014)

I feel your pain, I use 100% gas in my boats. It is like buying premium. But it’s money in the bank. I don’t have fuel related problems in my boats. The pumps say it is 90 octane.


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

jbo said:


> I feel your pain, I use 100% gas in my boats. It is like buying premium. But it’s money in the bank. I don’t have fuel related problems in my boats. The pumps say it is 90 octane.


Yep its 66% 93.5 and 34% 83.5 octane makes it 90 octane I was a fuel hauler for 16 yrs still would be if they didn't disable my from back surgery


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

RiparianRanger said:


> Not a byproduct of a ten cent gas tax. Instead blame Speedway’s yo-yo pricing policy. Stations in Ohio started spiking yesterday afternoon. I topped off at 2.42 this morning in central Ohio although most stations are 2.99 now because of Speedway’s shenanigans.
> 
> Really wish the legislature would address this practice but I’m sure Speedway is a major campaign donor which insulates them.
> 
> http://www.thegasgame.com/speedway-effect/


I was happy to notice the spike in price the other day. In cleveland it was 2.39 going to work. Thankfully I made it to a shell that hadn't changed yet. Half hour later it was 2.99


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

I dont know if anybody uses gasbuddy app. It use to tell me when prices were rising. I think I may have deactivated that function though. It's been useful when driving places as you can sort by distance or price


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

RiparianRanger said:


> Compression ratio. The higher the ratio the higher the octane rating required to prevent premature detonation and engine damage. While the price per gallon is higher, the engine is putting out more power due to the higher CR. Not sure if it nets out or not in your case but the greater power out of a smaller (lighter) engine is sure to contribute to greater MPG.


That turbo will push you back in your seat! If you keep your foot off it, it actually gets great mileage.


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