# Ending of an Era



## Shaun69007 (Sep 2, 2009)

Well it finally happened! a group of guys and I have leased a property outside of Newark for the last 4 years. What made this lease nice is the fact that we had full all year access to the property. We hunted, camped, shot guns and hung out and drank a few beers. I went to the owner last week and it seems that the place has been leased out beneath us by an outfitter. It sucks because this was more than that of a hunting lease. we took our children out there berry picking, took my son out trapping with me etc. It seems that a lot of this ground is starting to be overtaken by such outfitters targeting the out of state or rich hunters. Its sad to even have to pay to play but that is what the state of Ohio is coming to I guess. The whole area has be bought up or leased up by different "clubs" and Mossy Oak Properties. Watching the lease prices go from 10 bucks and acre 8 years ago to 30-40 bucks and acre now. How much is a deer or two worth? What is going to happen in a few years when I want to take my child out and get him his first deer. My family aren't farmers or own any land. I myself make a good living but not enough to pay these prices. I have watched this litigious society suing over a hole in their pants from crossing a barbed wire fence trespassing. I understand why landowners due to liability risk do not allow any hunting. These outfitters have the money to hire a lawyer to write a legal contract releasing liability and will pay them premium price for mediocre land that they sell out hunts to out of Staters for 3500 bucks just for the week of gun. Its business and I understand that but cant help but feel a little butt hurt about it. I apologies to rant but I just cant help to think what it will be like in 10 years when my kids are in the boat of wanting to hunt and no place to go.


----------



## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

That sucks, but that is the way things are headed. The leasing/outfitting not only negatively affects the people who used to hunt on that specific property, it hurts the neighboring properties as well. Think about owning 100-200 acres that you manage exclusively for recreation and hunting. You invest time and money to make it great. Then an "outfitter"(I use that term loosely) leases the neighboring property and kills 6-10 bucks a year off it and all of the turkeys that they can. There goes your investment and management plan. I've seen it happen to friends. So far I have been lucky to avoid these problems. Sorry for your loss.


----------



## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

You could Get together with your group of hunters and see what you "together"can afford to buy. Myself and some friends got together and bought a couple hundred acres and a small cabin, it's the best investment I've ever made. We've gotten to know the surrounding landowners and now have more acreage than we can hunt. It took a few years but most of our neighbors are not hunters and welcome us to hunt because they know and trust us.
There is also plenty of public land in Ohio- at least in my area.
Good luck and Good hunting.


----------



## SteveinCanton (Aug 19, 2012)

So it is alright for you to lease a property but not an outfitter?


----------



## M R DUCKS (Feb 20, 2010)

he's leasing it to hunt and recreate with friends and family....outfitter is leasing for profit.....
profit is not a dirty word, but average joe can't pay outfitter prices.....


----------



## SteveinCanton (Aug 19, 2012)

A lease is a lease, does not matter why. The op leased the land to keep other people off just like the outfitter


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

What was your relationship with the landowner? Seems like if it was a good relationship you would have atleast been notified.


----------



## Shaun69007 (Sep 2, 2009)

We leased off a Amish gentleman for 3 years as he was trying to sell the place. A local gentleman bought it and took over our lease as we were paying the price he was going to be asking. it seemed like a good relationship. he also owns 4 other farms and the outfitter lease included the rest of his properties so that is why we got booted out.


----------



## Shaun69007 (Sep 2, 2009)

M R DUCKS said:


> he's leasing it to hunt and recreate with friends and family....outfitter is leasing for profit.....
> profit is not a dirty word, but average joe can't pay outfitter prices.....


+1 and no a lease is just not a lease. I don't mind the lease it don't like the outfitting. killing of our wildlife for financial gain.


----------



## DiverDux (May 19, 2012)

M R DUCKS said:


> he's leasing it to hunt and recreate with friends and family....outfitter is leasing for profit.....
> profit is not a dirty word, but average joe can't pay outfitter prices.....





Shaun69007 said:


> +1 and no a lease is just not a lease. I don't mind the lease it don't like the outfitting. killing of our wildlife for financial gain.


Just an observation Shaun69007... Sounds like you want to make the rules and expect everyone else to play by them. Just because _*you*_ do not agree with outfitting doesn't make it wrong. You agree with M R DUCKS about affordability, specifically your own financial limitations. What about people who can't afford a lease under any situation? Your willingness to lease keeps these people off land.

As far as "killing our wildlife for financial gain..." It's just like someone willing to lease a piece of property. It's okay to lease as long as it is a type of lease _*you*_ agree with. Someone paying for an outfitted hunt is just another level of pay to play. Again, something *you *do not agree with so, this must be wrong too! It sounds like if *you* can't afford it, then it is wrong. If _*you*_ can afford it, then it is okay.

The people who are willing to lease land are the ones who started this whole mess. _*You*_ and anyone else who lease or have leased are responsible for what is happening in Ohio. Stop blaming others who have deeper pockets than you for your misfortunes regarding this issue.

Sorry you and yours are out of a place to hunt, I really wish it didn't happen, but I know firsthand how it feels to be denied access due to a lease. It leaves a bitter taste. I truly hope you land on your feet, best of luck!


----------



## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

A lease is not a lease. A lease for recreation is not the same as a lease for profit. Yes, they both lock the land up. The motivation, uses, and outcomes are very different though.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Not really different at all.


----------



## SteveinCanton (Aug 19, 2012)

supercanoe said:


> A lease is not a lease. A lease for recreation is not the same as a lease for profit. Yes, they both lock the land up. The motivation, uses, and outcomes are very different though.


I guess the outfitter does not want any recreation on his land. I will say that there is no way that I would let someone drink beer with firearms on my property


----------



## Shaun69007 (Sep 2, 2009)

SteveinCanton said:


> I guess the outfitter does not want any recreation on his land. I will say that there is no way that I would let someone drink beer with firearms on my property


LOL! you are acting like it is do a shot and fire a shot. we don't drink while shooting. This thread is the greatest!


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Its just unless you are the owner you shouldnt have a sense of entitlement


----------



## Kevin Moses (Dec 30, 2015)

I've always said, and will stand by the statement that leased hunting, will be the death of our sport. Anytime you put a dollar in the mix of any recreation, you ruin it. I don't care if it's fishing tournaments, dog trials, hunting leases, anything in which somebody uses money for the short cut to their perceived "satisfactory results", instead of hard work, and strategy to achieve it. Less face it, most guys who chase big bucks do it to say "look how big my p*nis must appear". Why do companies push food plot seed, mineral blocks, vitamin fortified supplement, timed feeders, etc. etc. etc.? For the almighty dollar. They market this stuff, and lead the average Joe to believe you can't kill good deer without it. Same with Outfitters. They brag in their brochures about having 20,000+ acres of hunting ground that only 3 guys hunt every 5 years blah, blah, blah. Why?? The dollar. I'm getting toward the end of my hunting career due to age (54). The dollar has began to ruin this sport, just like every other. Call it sour grapes if you want, but that is not what this sport was intended for.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

I think leasing has made more opportunities for people who couldnt afford to buy their own land. 

I wish killing big bucks meant a bigger p*nis. I would be in a different industry...lmao.

Its all about hunting or fishing for big game. If I was carp fishing I would want to catch the biggest carp, biggest blue gill,biggest crappie,largest bass. Its gratifying.


----------



## Kevin Moses (Dec 30, 2015)

ostbucks98 said:


> I think leasing has made more opportunities for people who couldnt afford to buy their own land.
> 
> I wish killing big bucks meant a bigger p*nis. I would be in a different industry...lmao.
> 
> Its all about hunting or fishing for big game. If I was carp fishing I would want to catch the biggest carp, biggest blue gill,biggest crappie,largest bass. Its gratifying.


I'll tell you why I said the p*nis thing. See these guys who hold a 4 pound walleye out as far as they can to make it appear bigger? How about the guy who stands 6 feet behind to 110" buck, to make it look 200"?


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Yeah that drives me nuts.


----------



## Shaun69007 (Sep 2, 2009)

Kevin Moses said:


> I've always said, and will stand by the statement that leased hunting, will be the death of our sport. Anytime you put a dollar in the mix of any recreation, you ruin it. I don't care if it's fishing tournaments, dog trials, hunting leases, anything in which somebody uses money for the short cut to their perceived "satisfactory results", instead of hard work, and strategy to achieve it. Less face it, most guys who chase big bucks do it to say "look how big my p*nis must appear". Why do companies push food plot seed, mineral blocks, vitamin fortified supplement, timed feeders, etc. etc. etc.? For the almighty dollar. They market this stuff, and lead the average Joe to believe you can't kill good deer without it. Same with Outfitters. They brag in their brochures about having 20,000+ acres of hunting ground that only 3 guys hunt every 5 years blah, blah, blah. Why?? The dollar. I'm getting toward the end of my hunting career due to age (54). The dollar has began to ruin this sport, just like every other. Call it sour grapes if you want, but that is not what this sport was intended for.


We only killed 4 deer off of this lease over 4 years and 6 guys. So it wasn't a big buck prime real estate. Unfortunately a few of the guys have no other place to hunt so putting a dollar tag on a piece of ground is their only option. My attitude is how much is a deer worth? Apparently 350 dollars is my max as that has been my cut off on any lease. You are right Kevin, the ol mighty dollar will ruin the sport as well as hunting shows


----------



## FAB (May 26, 2013)

This last season marked 61 years that I have been hunting deer and almost all of it has been on public land.
I used to hunt up until a couple of years ago New York, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio and Missouri all on public land. I lost count of the deer I took off these lands at somewhere around 150 and I have added quite a few since . My brother and I hunted a public area last season south of Burr Oak and both took deer on the first day.

Ohio has a little over 651,000 acres of public land , PA has 4.1 million, New York 3.8 million and so on and so on.
The biggest problem I have ever run into hunting public land is the lack of hunting pressure to get deer up and moving, especially on the second day of season. The simple fact is that as hunters we purchase a lot of that land with license fees, Pittman Robertson funds and other sport generated money. That is our land go and use it. Each of us with a hunting license in our pocket can say and honestly say, " I own hundreds of thousands acres of land that I can hunt on. A woods is a woods, a deer is a deer and a hunter is a hunter, no matter where the three come together.


----------



## marshal45 (Mar 8, 2007)

Shaun60007, I feel your pain and while I have not this happen to me I have certainly lost hunting spots for various reasons in the past. You were just trying to vent a little bit in this site and unfortunately like many in the past strong opinions have surfaced. Ignore it it's no big deal. But again I have to say I feel your pain with losing a good spot. Put on the boots and try to find another they are out there sometimes just have to ask.


----------



## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

Anyone willing to pay $3500.00 to take a 130 class buck is a sad, sad soul. How many you want?, I have a room full of free ones..!


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

I pay more than that a year to own my property. Divide that by 5 people and its a reasonable deal.


----------



## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

ostbucks98 said:


> I pay more than that a year to own my property. Divide that by 5 people and its a reasonable deal.


To *OWN is much different *then to lease and charge the largest wallets. Just a matter of time, you won't have anywhere to hunt unless you have deep pockets.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

My point exactly


----------



## handloader (Jan 13, 2014)

Out West, the outfitters will lease the lands all around the public lands. They establish a no access zone around the public land (no rights of egress). I was hunting in Wyoming a few years back, when a guy flew an ultralight over the outfitters land to land in the BLM public land to hunt. He was successfully, and flew his harvest back out. It made the news-a small local victory. The outfitters went crazy about it! They had successfully managed to lock up the public and private lands for their own use. Guess what- you can't land an ultra-light on public lands now.......


----------



## BASSINONE (Oct 24, 2013)

I have 55 ac of managed deer/turkey land for sale in Noble co, if you want your own place to hunt. 5 ac field for cabin, or trailer, free gas, driveway, and gated. Trails cut for 4 wheeler. Just an idea????


----------



## island troller (Nov 14, 2007)

Been hunting and leasing 70 acres of woods for over 30 years. Been at 1000.00 per year for the last 15 years and was going to offer owner 2000.00 this year thinking we would cushion it a little more with the owner. An outfitter countered with 4,500.00 then another private offer came of 6000.00. Yes 6000.00. We decided to just be thankful we had it for 32 years and move on. That is just an unbelievable price to pay for a 70 acre lease. Not only that but the hunting has really went down hill the last 5 years. Property was NE of Newark.


----------



## island troller (Nov 14, 2007)

Been watching the internet for a lease for 3 of us including my son but seems like there is nothing out there to replace this.


----------



## Shaun69007 (Sep 2, 2009)

island troller said:


> Been hunting and leasing 70 acres of woods for over 30 years. Been at 1000.00 per year for the last 15 years and was going to offer owner 2000.00 this year thinking we would cushion it a little more with the owner. An outfitter countered with 4,500.00 then another private offer came of 6000.00. Yes 6000.00. We decided to just be thankful we had it for 32 years and move on. That is just an unbelievable price to pay for a 70 acre lease. Not only that but the hunting has really went down hill the last 5 years. Property was NE of Newark.


We were paying 30 and acre. I don't know what the outfitter offered for the property but it was already done and there was nothing we could do about it.


----------



## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

The rip-off outfitter charges 6k for one hunt and the property is paid for. More and more land is being lost to this problem and others like trespassing and littering..etc. Not to mention the woods being devastated by development. None the less it will never be as good as it was in the past. So glad I was able to hunt it in the peak years.


----------



## CrappieCowboy15 (Apr 13, 2011)

if I could make a living off a turning in bass I wouldn't worry about the price of gas ide be wheeling dealing and reeling em in.


----------



## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

Well to join the conversation.... My brothers and I just lost the farm we hunted for 30+yrs to a big money lease. We are great friends with the landowner. We stay at their place when we hunt. They are like family. We enjoyed and cherished that property more than he did. The temptation of the $$$$ was too much. In a way I don't blame him. Sad because it was a tradition for all of us to meet. This is northeast of Newark in the town of Warsaw. That whole area has become a money market for leased property for big money. Earnhardt Jr leases big ground just down the road. The money he spends to lease started the fire that way. It's a shame the money market hunting has become but it is what it is. As much as I love hunting I refuse to pay a ridiculous amount of money to hunt. It's not about the deer to me... It's the time and stories you share with families and friends. I have other properties to hunt so although a blow it's not the end of the world. I do feel for those that have been "bought out". If it continues the next generation of up coming hunters is going to drop way off. When it becomes a struggle for people to find a place to hunt their just gonna say forget it. If mom and dad don't hunt their kids most likely will not hunt either.


----------



## Kevin Moses (Dec 30, 2015)

Snook said:


> Well to join the conversation.... My brothers and I just lost the farm we hunted for 30+yrs to a big money lease. We are great friends with the landowner. We stay at their place when we hunt. They are like family. We enjoyed and cherished that property more than he did. The temptation of the $$$$ was too much. In a way I don't blame him. Sad because it was a tradition for all of us to meet. This is northeast of Newark in the town of Warsaw. That whole area has become a money market for leased property for big money. Earnhardt Jr leases big ground just down the road. The money he spends to lease started the fire that way. It's a shame the money market hunting has become but it is what it is. As much as I love hunting I refuse to pay a ridiculous amount of money to hunt. It's not about the deer to me... It's the time and stories you share with families and friends. I have other properties to hunt so although a blow it's not the end of the world. I do feel for those that have been "bought out". If it continues the next generation of up coming hunters is going to drop way off. When it becomes a struggle for people to find a place to hunt their just gonna say forget it. If mom and dad don't hunt their kids most likely will not hunt either.


And hence my statement, "leasing will be the death of hunting".


----------

