# Aurora Colorado Shooting



## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

I'm visiting my twin granddaughters, this week, in Parker, Colorado and I wake up to the news of this shooting that's about 20 minutes down the road from here. Ages 6 to 31 are the casualties with over 50 injuries.

It was the midnight premier of the new Batman movie. A 24 yr. old man in a gas mask, kevlar vest, 2 handguns and a rifle, walked into the front of the audience and threw 2 gas canisters. He raised his rifle, fired it and pulled his pistols and started shooting people.

After the shooter was done, the man hid behind the dumpster that's behind the movie theater...until the police discovered him there. He gave up and was taken into custody.

Tragic and Nuts at the same time.  I can't wait to get out of this state, as my flight isn't for another 5 hours. 

My sincere prayers go out to all of the families involved. 
Bowhunter57


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

I used to live in Aurora. This is crazy. I just don't understand how someone can walk into a place and just start shooting people that never have done anything to them. Then to hide behind a dumpster like a coward. Cops should of executed him on the spot. It isn't safe to go anwhere anymore.


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

Its ridiculous....and by the looks of it he did it for fun....and you can actually use a quote from the Dark Knight "Some people just want to watch the world burn." -Alfred


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Media needs to keep his name and picture out of the public view. Take him back to the dumpster and poke a hole in his head and be done with it. These freaks want the public to see them and it needs to stop.


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

bobk said:


> Media needs to keep his name and picture out of the public view. Take him back to the dumpster and poke a hole in his head and be done with it. These freaks want the public to see them and it needs to stop.


agreed...these people cant be rehabilitated...prove 100% he did it, and execute...


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

This kinda stuff just reinforces my thinking that we need to take a good long look at our rules against cruel and unusual punishment.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

imalt said:


> Cops should of executed him on the spot.


According to reports, he was in full body armor. Also had red hair like the Joker. ???



> It isn't safe to go anywhere anymore.


I disagree. This doesn't scare me, compared to every cell phone yakking SUV running red lights and stop signs. That's WAY more likely to hurt me.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Terrible tragedy. Just terrible.

But I find it equally disturbing to see that we have some that want to burn the Sixth Amendment.


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

i agree KaGee I am afraid of people who willing to trample on our Constitution and beliefs!




KaGee said:


> Terrible tragedy. Just terrible.
> 
> But I find it equally disturbing to see that we have some that want to burn the Sixth Amendment.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

rod bender bob said:


> i agree KaGee I am afraid of people who willing to trample on our Constitution and beliefs!


I agree. I don't want to see our Constitution trampled, either. I have no problem with the 6th amendment, or due process. I'm just tired of the 8th amendment, and punishments not fitting the crime. If there was harsh enough punishment for this type of behaviour, there'd be less of it. How harsh is harsh enough for something like this? Something like a public flogging every 3rd day for 3 years, followed by a public hanging?


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## davycrockett (Apr 9, 2005)

A true tragedy. My thoughts are for the families of the victims. But less than 24 hrs into it I'm already sick of the media coverage. Just saw the idiotic couple on nightly news that were dumb enough to take their newborn infant to the movie. Thankfully they are still alive but, who the hell takes a newborn to the movies? Then the news says the mother of the psycho is a mental illness nurse and says she's not surprised he did it! The media has already stressed how this idiot had a clean record and obtained the firearms legally. The anti gun folks are frothing at the mouth over these facts. It's d-bags like this that are f-ing things up for us law abiding people. I think these shootings are gonna get worse. Look at Columbine, Virginia tech, and this one not to mention others. Every one took place in a public place where the chance of someone packin is nonexhistent. What we need in this country are less carry laws and not more. More armed citizens is the only way to deter this type of tragedy. 


Golf is a good walk spoiled - Mark Twain


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Unfortunately there will always be "the lunitic fringe' among us; silently plotting their own horrific deed for whatever reason. And would agree that even 1 person who was carrying their own concealed weapon COULD have killed/ incapacipated him. Am former military, and KNOW what high performance semi and fully automatic military rounds are capable of. It is my own PERSONAL belief the "average Joe citizen" simply DOES NOT NEED that kind of weapon, capable of shooting thru a house. And if you can`t hit an intruder invading your house with 10 rounds or less some range time is very likely needed. The "average Joe citizen" will never be forced to defend against a "Banzai" human wave assault, so having 2 30 round clips taped together aka Rambo for "home protection' is about like having a burgler alarm armed with a nuclear weapon. Okay, you kill the intruder AND accidently shoot your neighbor`s kid sleeping in their own bed with the "stray' rounds. People just DO NOT realize a military grade round`s penetration power. Same goes for machine guns, grenades, rocket launchers, anti tank missiles, artillery, attack jet aircraft, attack helicopters, ect. And I`m sure there are those who feel "Arm everyone, even the kids with as much "heat" as they can carry"; unless you`re "Mad Max" in "Beyond the Thunderdome" I`d suggest therapy...


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

To me the biggest cause of these are those no gun allowed signs. imagine some one trying that in a room of 100people with 50 carrying handguns. Odds are less victims and shooter being the first one. When will people learn keeping the guns out of the hands of good people only help the bad get worse. Now we got to watch this guy run up bills probably on us. For his court cases. lawyers ,appeals and then probably hit the street some day to do it again. Why do we care why he did it. The crime is done now's time to punish him not try and come up with a reason. I for one do not care. Execute him in the most pain possible and taking the longest time. It would still be to good for a person who has done this.


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

I was watching it in the hotel lobby (Parker, CO.) and most of the people were making comments like, "That's so sad." or "What a shame." However, there was one lady that said, "That's the reason they need to get rid of the guns."

Well, I wasn't about to let that slide.  I said, "No! If everyone in the audience would've been armed, they could've taken the guy out, before he did any more damage. I guarantee you, if something like this happened in Texas, he'd be laying in the morgue full of holes. I'll go one step farther...you don't hear of crap like this happening in Texas." I had to stop, before I got pissed, but there were others standing there that were in clear agreement, but wouldn't voice it. 

Just the same, it's good to be back in the Buckeye State. 
Bowhunter57


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## jcustunner24 (Aug 20, 2007)

viper1 said:


> To me the biggest cause of these are those no gun allowed signs.


I agree, but it's irrelevant. This guy had 4 guns and a virtually locked room to target anyone and everyone. We can all second guess everything, but bottom line is that this dude slaughtered people.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Again, agree WHOLE HEARTEDLY. In MANY countries, if you even HAVE a weapon and commit a felony crime you are already aware that upon conviction you WILL be PUT TO DEATH. NO EXCEMPTIONS. Those countries have few to NO "repeat offenders"...don`t know how many carry out executions with slow geared steam rollers, but might well be worth looking into. Something horrendously ghastly enough to give a potential criminal VERY SERIOUS 2cnd thoughts...


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

jcustunner24 said:


> I agree, but it's irrelevant. This guy had 4 guns and a virtually locked room to target anyone and everyone. We can all second guess everything, but bottom line is that this dude slaughtered people.


I think we all know he killed people and its not irrealvent since armed citizens may have stopped him.


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## Benboat (Jan 20, 2008)

viper1 said:


> To me the biggest cause of these are those no gun allowed signs. imagine some one trying that in a room of 100people with 50 carrying handguns. Odds are less victims and shooter being the first one. When will people learn keeping the guns out of the hands of good people only help the bad get worse. Now we got to watch this guy run up bills probably on us. For his court cases. lawyers ,appeals and then probably hit the street some day to do it again. Why do we care why he did it. The crime is done now's time to punish him not try and come up with a reason. I for one do not care. Execute him in the most pain possible and taking the longest time. It would still be to good for a person who has done this.


Agree 100%. Our legal system is so screwed up that this guy will probably be sent to some "hospital" to try to "save" him.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

viper1 said:


> I think we all know he killed people and its not irrealvent since armed citizens may have stopped him.


In a theater full of tear gas, and people in a panic, and people firing at him from the seats - anyone in the line of fire would be swiss cheese. I really doubt that adding more shooters would have reduced the casualties.


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## dinkcatcher (Jul 4, 2009)

We will never know for sure what armed citizens might have been able to do, but he picked people at random and kept walking. What if he walked past a guy who was armed and that guy stood up pistol to the back of the neck and dropped him? We don't know for sure but it would be nice to think that opportunity was there. 


_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


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## dinkcatcher (Jul 4, 2009)

You can't prevent crazy, and you violence will always exist. Pretending evil isnt there will never help you. The best we can hope for is a chance to defend ourselves. 


_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

The other thing to consider is, when the police are responding to calls about someone shooting, you don't want to be walking around with a gun in your hand.


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

Bowhunter57 said:


> I was watching it in the hotel lobby (Parker, CO.) and most of the people were making comments like, "That's so sad." or "What a shame." However, there was one lady that said, "That's the reason they need to get rid of the guns."
> 
> Well, I wasn't about to let that slide.  I said, "No! If everyone in the audience would've been armed, they could've taken the guy out, before he did any more damage. I guarantee you, if something like this happened in Texas, he'd be laying in the morgue full of holes. I'll go one step farther...you don't hear of crap like this happening in Texas." I had to stop, before I got pissed, but there were others standing there that were in clear agreement, but wouldn't voice it.
> 
> ...


Ever hear the names George Hennard, how about Charles Whitman, or maybe Major Nidal Malik Hasan,, ,, Man there are nut jobs everywhere,, I don't think there is really anything we as a single person can do about it. Look at this guy, Mister average American on the surface.


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## dmills4124 (Apr 9, 2008)

I know one thing for sure and that is history will repeat itself. That said, If you have ever considered an AR or similar forearm you better get it now or soon. Brady bill like legislation has already been written and waiting for the right time to be entered for law to ban the stereo-typed assault guns and that includes the semi autos(or as the media calles them all "automatics"). 
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. 
No I dont want everyone here to look like afganistan or Irag with an AK or RPG over their shoulder. But an armed society is a polite society. The town down south that made it madatory for all of the towns people to be armed dropped the violent crime rate an incredible amount. Would it work for the entire country.....who knows. Is it probable? NO! One armed person trained properly would have stopped this sick-o in time to save many lives and injured people from suffering. God be with those who have been hurt by his actions both the injured and their loved ones. This too shall pass.
JMTCW
donm
ps; and God Bless America, she WILL continue to endever.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

Side question, what would it cost to stock up on all the guns, gear, and that much ammo?


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

nobody can deny this is a possibility...

http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html


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## dmills4124 (Apr 9, 2008)

That article and the rest sure does ask some real questions as to whether a connection to the UN is probable. He imitates a movie and then a movie like mission impossible UN connection is supposed into this story. Is it real or fiction? would our government go so far to get their anti gun missmash passed and to start a funding source(tax) for the UN? I am not a conspearacy theory minded person but some questions sure might need to be looked into on how this guy acquired so much sophisticated equipment. I know there was a time when I could have gotten all this stuff but that was 45 to 50 years ago. This is a new world and new time with lots of tighter regulations. 25 years ago we found a fully workng LAWS Rocket in an old guys trailor out in Apache Junction,Az . But find one now is impossible.
JMTCW
donm


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

As far as an armed society being a "polite" society, by that logic North Korea SHOULD be the nicest place on Earth, overflowing with trust and goodwill towards all. (They`re CERTAINLY overflowing with something...) And as far as openly carrying AK 47s and RPGs and M2 Browning heavy machine guns look at how "peaceful" Iraq and Afghanistan CURRENTLY are. Wake up, have breakfast, get dressed, catch a passing T-55 Soviet made main battle tank to work...and forgive my possibly flawed logic but the sicko in the theater WASN`T "polite" either. I WILL agree again, a properly TRAINED gun owner could have put him down by shooting him directly in his gas mask/ head. And as far as "running out and getting an AK, or AR before the liberal bleeding heart commie pinko bi or try sexuals ban them all; no. If I MUST OVERARM myself to the point of LUDICRICY I personally want a M2 .50 calibur that will shoot an intruder in my house, go thru the wall, go thru my next door neighbor`s wall, kills his cat, goes thru his other exterior wall, goes into HIS next door neighbor`s wall, into his garage, hits and destroys his motorcycle he persists inrevving in his drive way at 2 AM and then falls harmlessly to the floor. Effective range 2 1/2 MILES baby. Max"splatter" rounds range 8 .25 MILES dude. But ONLY for "home protection". Oh, and a small yield tactical nuke...


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

For those of you that think the situation would've had a better ending if a certain percentage of the audience were packing heat.How safe do you really feel you would've been in a small auditorium that was at full capacity,dark,smoke-filled,people running around in full panic mode,and a crazed gunman blasting away,than add maybe twenty armed citizens blasting away at the madman?I wouldn't want to be in there with just one normal citizen armed with a gun,are you serious? Even suggesting that average citizens should be allowed to bring a loaded weapon into a movie theater is idiocy.What we need to bring Glock's to the high school football game,the freaking grocery store,the mall,damn, some lunatic might have a doctor's appointment at the same time as mine,better lock and load.There are crazy people out there amongst us,that's not going to change regardless of how many Rambo's are out there.Common sense would tell me had I been in that movie theater and this wacko started gunning down people and I pulled out my perfectly legal gun and fired at him and missed and hit somebody else by mistake,I would be spending the rest of my life behind bars.I know the arguement CCW guys are so well trained they can fire accurately in the dark,and see well enough through the teargas to get their man.It is what it is a terrible tragedy that regardless of what some think couldn't have been avoided,not in any sane way anyway.The law has the guy,he will be tried,and he will be convicted,and that's the way it should be.I have no problem whatsoever with somebody having a gun in their house,or maybe even in their car if they feel they need protection,but I totally draw the line when people suggest bringing loaded firearms into public places.I even had the mispleasure of drawing some dude in a recent bass tournament that had a carry permit,and of course the pistol to go along with it.Needless to say his entry fee went down the drain because he got left at the ramp.When you feel you have to be packing to fish a bass tournament,you're as crazy as the people you fear.


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> I even had the mispleasure of drawing some dude in a recent bass tournament that had a carry permit,and of course the pistol to go along with it.Needless to say his entry fee went down the drain because he got left at the ramp.When you feel you have to be packing to fish a bass tournament,you're as crazy as the people you fear.


Wow you so ridiculous paranoid it doesnt make sense. Leaving a guy at the ramp because he has a CCW?? THAT is ludicrous!! You either left out the part where you asked him to leave it behind or you DIDNT ask him which is probably what happened. Its people like you that cause panic situations in public when they see someone carrying and that make us now have September 11th fees at airports and probably now have security fees at the already expensive movies..


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## dmills4124 (Apr 9, 2008)

I think we are both on the same page but just saying it differantly. I have a Win 270 that I just love. My boy had an AR in the 308 and it killed him when he had to sell it to pay bills. The $7k he got for it paid alot of house payments. I would like to add to my weapons collection a couple of 50 cal in desert eagle and long range target(sniper) rifle but not for home defense. Over penatration might be a problem but it would take care of that bike at twoam. My bride loves her S&W45 for her side of the bed. I prefer my 357 law enforcment 6 with 2 rounds of snake load(bird shot) and the rest in Hydra shock hollow points for nighttime home defense. If all else fails I guess the good old remington 380, but thats a lot of drywall repair on one bad guy. We already went thru a period of guns and magazine bands. Now you cant buy any of our own American made carbines of the WWII and korean war era from outside the country. Some weapons are history and collecting and shooting them is a kick for some(me). 
Properly trained people with guns have a tool in their possession just like a motor vehicle. To bad someone wasnt there with the opportunity and weapons training to stop this puke from doing his damage. SAD SAD SAD
later
donm


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Not paranoid at all,it's my boat,not his.I won't carry a gun on my boat,do you think I would allow a stranger to do so? For your information I noticed the gun when he was climbing into my truck to back it down the ramp.I made a comment about it whereas he replied that he had a permit for the gun.I said none of that mattered to me I don't want it in my truck,or my boat-Isn't that my choice? He never offered to do anything one way or the other,so I told the tournament director that I didn't want to share my boat with the guy and that was it.Since you called me out,let me return the favor.Because you have a permit to carry a firearm you feel that that entitles you to carry your gun onto my property? Not only that,but come on bro' you honestly feel that you or somebody else needs to be carrying a handgun at a bass tournament? I haven't read every single word of the rules for each bass circuit out there,but I'm pretty sure that carrying a firearm on you during tournament hours would be cause for immediate disqualification.


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## "chillin" (Apr 20, 2012)

You people are amazing me with your concealed carry bull. What a joke! You wanna do something to help? Send the victims families some money. 
Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

This tragedy never should have happened. And it is a shame. God bless those suffering. And I'll try to share the load with a few prayers. 


_______________________________________________________________________________


On another note - 



Silent Mike said:


> Wow you so ridiculous paranoid it doesnt make sense. Leaving a guy at the ramp because he has a CCW?? THAT is ludicrous!!


I find it interesting that you would argue with someone else regarding their free choices. 
After all. Freedom and rights are what the "Bang bang shootem'-up pow" folks promote isn't it?


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

I posted this on another forum discussion of the same topic. The words are mine, I'm just to lazy to type up another reponse when I feel this fits.


Nobody knows for sure how they would react or what they would do in a situation such as this, unless they are there or have been there. I pray that I am never in such a situation, however I do carry every day and everywhere I go with a few exceptions. I would like to think that I would be able to save myself, my family or some other innocent. I would much rather take the chance and put up resistance, even if I pay with my life than to be a bleating sheep led to the slaughter trusting in some magical sign that says "no guns allowed". I just do not understand how people can blame an inanimate (sp?) object for causing violence. Criminals are by definition those that do NOT follow laws and rules. Last time I checked it was illegal to shoot people in every state of the union and most of the world. I challenge anyone to give an example of a robbery or violent act that was stopped because of a sign on the door. The only thing "gun free" zones create is victim zones where a criminal knows they will have easy pickings because those that follow the law do obey them. Gun control has nothing to do with controlling guns, it has everything to do with controlling people.


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## MuskieLuv (Oct 29, 2007)

Harbor Hunter said:


> For those of you that think the situation would've had a better ending if a certain percentage of the audience were packing heat.How safe do you really feel you would've been in a small auditorium that was at full capacity,dark,smoke-filled,people running around in full panic mode,and a crazed gunman blasting away,than add maybe twenty armed citizens blasting away at the madman?I wouldn't want to be in there with just one normal citizen armed with a gun,are you serious? Even suggesting that average citizens should be allowed to bring a loaded weapon into a movie theater is idiocy.What we need to bring Glock's to the high school football game,the freaking grocery store,the mall,damn, some lunatic might have a doctor's appointment at the same time as mine,better lock and load.There are crazy people out there amongst us,that's not going to change regardless of how many Rambo's are out there.Common sense would tell me had I been in that movie theater and this wacko started gunning down people and I pulled out my perfectly legal gun and fired at him and missed and hit somebody else by mistake,I would be spending the rest of my life behind bars.I know the arguement CCW guys are so well trained they can fire accurately in the dark,and see well enough through the teargas to get their man.It is what it is a terrible tragedy that regardless of what some think couldn't have been avoided,not in any sane way anyway.The law has the guy,he will be tried,and he will be convicted,and that's the way it should be.I have no problem whatsoever with somebody having a gun in their house,or maybe even in their car if they feel they need protection,but I totally draw the line when people suggest bringing loaded firearms into public places.I even had the mispleasure of drawing some dude in a recent bass tournament that had a carry permit,and of course the pistol to go along with it.Needless to say his entry fee went down the drain because he got left at the ramp.When you feel you have to be packing to fish a bass tournament,you're as crazy as the people you fear.


This is a sad example of antigun mentality, when it is an exceptable outcome that 12 are dead and 50 more hurt, but we got the guy. What is unexceptable is a legally armed citizen rising to the situation and trying to save lives with his firearm, because he may shoot a bistander??? Maybe you should just except that asocail violence can happen anywhere at any time. You don't get to pick where the safe zone is, the asocail criminal does and it is usually always where the sheep think they are safe??? 

Now for the CCW you left at the ramp, your boat but seems like a crappy way to treat a guy. I'm not a carrier but would never turn into a chicken little when I see someone carrying.


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## MuskieLuv (Oct 29, 2007)

[quote="chillin";1458880]You people are amazing me with your concealed carry bull. What a joke! You wanna do something to help? Send the victims families some money. 
Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine[/quote]

Awesome, show up to help after the tragedy with money. Don't forget the teddy bears and candles. Not trying to make light of the grieving process. I just can't understand the mindset that we need to except this and violence should not be met with violence because YOU don't have the mindset for it.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

The only time I've been off private property with someone openly carrying was when riding horses, where the owner packed a pistol in case he had to put an animal down.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

MuskieLuv said:


> This is a sad example of antigun mentality, when it is an exceptable outcome that 12 are dead and 50 more hurt, but we got the guy. What is unexceptable is a legally armed citizen rising to the situation and trying to save lives with his firearm, because he may shoot a bistander??? Maybe you should just except that asocail violence can happen anywhere at any time. You don't get to pick where the safe zone is, the asocail criminal does and it is usually always where the sheep think they are safe???
> 
> Now for the CCW you left at the ramp, your boat but seems like a crappy way to treat a guy. I'm not a carrier but would never turn into a chicken little when I see someone carrying.


 First off,I'm not anti-gun at all,I believe anybody should be able to own,or carry a gun.However I do not believe that a citizen should be allowed to have a gun(loaded or unloaded)in any public place such as stores,churches,schools,parks,etc.You stated that if you were at that movie theater and you were armed and in the act of trying to defend yourself,or others you just happened to shoot a bystander a judge(or a cop)would look at you and say that's alright you were just trying to do our job for us.Don't think so,first off I'm sure that you're not allowed to have a firearm in that theater,so right there you're breaking the law.Secondly I would love to see you go to that "bystanders" family and explain how you gunned down their loved one trying to protect others when you're not even a cop.I would want you to receive the same penalty the madman gets. Lastly,why does it bother you,or anybody else who,or for whatever reason I choose to allow or disallow on my boat.The rules don't allow any firearms on board for one thing as I said.Here's the thing you don't seem to comprehend-since I obviously don't have a gun on my boat,why would I allow a total stranger to come on my boat carrying one-duh!


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## MuskieLuv (Oct 29, 2007)

Harbor Hunter said:


> .However I do not believe that a citizen should be allowed to have a gun(loaded or unloaded)in any public place such as stores,churches,schools,parks,etc.You stated that if you were at that movie theater and you were armed and in the act of trying to defend yourself,or others you just happened to shoot a bystander a judge(or a cop)would look at you and say that's alright you were just trying to do our job for us.Don't think so,first off I'm sure that you're not allowed to have a firearm in that theater,so right there you're breaking the law.Secondly I would love to see you go to that "bystanders" family and explain how you gunned down their loved one trying to protect others when you're not even a cop.I would want you to receive the same penalty the madman gets.


First off, when you carry a gun you know the responcibilities of discharging your weapon, no different than the cop. With what you are saying we should take the cops gun away, he could shoot a bystander. You seem to be more worried about a law abiding citizen shooting someone than the criminal that is trying to kill everyone. 
Secondly, "gunned down their loved one" is not what happened. In an attempt to stop a mass shooting a stray bullet hit someone by accident. Same penalty as the madman, REALLY?? If your family was saved you would be all hugs and handshakes??

I get your point about the boat.


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## "chillin" (Apr 20, 2012)

MuskieLuv said:


> Awesome, show up to help after the tragedy with money. Don't forget the teddy bears and candles. Not trying to make light of the grieving process. I just can't understand the mindset that we need to except this and violence should not be met with violence because YOU don't have the mindset for it.


Yep. Dont do anything to actually help. Just sitting and running your mouth about b.s. is way more helpful. Three of my family members WERE murdered some years ago. You dont even have a clue what thats like, let alone having to pony up 6 grand for funeral arrangements while your still trying to come to terms with just happened. I wish someone would have helped me, thats why i made a donation. But you just keep to your all talk no action ways bud.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

ezbite said:


> nobody can deny this is a possibility...
> 
> http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html


It's an interesting theory, but it pairs a bit better with a Jason Bourne movie than Batman. I think it's probably more likely that that we have a very intelligent and disturbed young man (He is right in the money zone demographic for schizophrenia--maybe complicated by drugs.) who spent his time and money (maybe from student loans) on weapons, rather than on his studies.

I have given up having an opinion in the gun "debate." I think there should be some reasonable restrictions on gun and ammo ownership and usage, but I doubt that it will do any good. Norway has some of the more restrictive gun licensing laws, but Anders Breivik still managed to kill 77 people. Pennsylvania is one of the most heavily armed places in the country, so some nut chooses a bunch of Amish school girls to slaughter.

If a determined and well-planning nut job with perfectly ordinary guns and bullets gets it in his twisted mind to kill a bunch of "bleating sheep," as one poster described the victims, he will find his lambs to slaughter regardless of how many pistol packing mamas are walking around with a Smith and Wesson in their clutch purse.

I used the term "reasonable restrictions" earlier. That's actually laughable because we are no longer a "reasonable" society. We all just scream at each other and nothing gets accomplished. The same thing will happen again, and the only thing that will come of it is that we'll all get even more tense and weapon and ammunitions sales will go up.

Now we will be treated to the gun "debate" in the upcoming election. I suspect that either one or both of the candidates will be found to be for one position before he was against it.


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## SConner (Mar 3, 2007)

A healthy debate does not involve belittling the opposing point of view. If current discussion is to continue, this will stop.


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## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

MuskieLuv said:


> First off, when you carry a gun you know the responcibilities of discharging your weapon, no different than the cop. With what you are saying we should take the cops gun away, he could shoot a bystander. You seem to be more worried about a law abiding citizen shooting someone than the criminal that is trying to kill everyone.
> Secondly, "gunned down their loved one" is not what happened. In an attempt to stop a mass shooting a stray bullet hit someone by accident. Same penalty as the madman, REALLY?? If your family was saved you would be all hugs and handshakes??
> 
> I get your point about the boat.


 You're twisting things a bit here.You originally said if an innocent person got shot by a stray bullet fired from the gun of a law abiding citizen trying to protect himself,and others it would be no different than if the same situation happened to a cop-really? First off a law abiding citizen wouldn't be in a movie theater with a loaded gun.Second,a cop is well trained to handle situations like that,not some dude with 20 some hours of CCW training.I do agree with you,nobody's loved one got gunned down by some hero with a gun,because other than the idiot perp,nobody was breaking the law by having one in there.I already said I support the right of every American citizen to own a gun if they so choose,but I firmly believe that guns should not be allowed in public places.Of course I would be very relieved,and blessed if a loved one of mine was saved from being murdered by any means,but that would still not change my stance.Putting guns in the hands of ordinary citizens does not,and never will stop evil people from doing evil things.How many of these incidents have happened since the CCW laws became in effect? Toronto,Chardon,Denver,Va.Tech,and countless others.Has having legally armed citizens changed any of those outcomes? Violence only leads to more violence any way you look at it.If there's a wacko out there bent on destruction,he's going to do it.I don't really disagree with you all that much,I support your right to own and carry a gun,just not where you choose to carry it.


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## Gills63 (Mar 29, 2012)

Harbor Hunter said:


> You're twisting things a bit here.You originally said if an innocent person got shot by a stray bullet fired from the gun of a law abiding citizen trying to protect himself,and others it would be no different than if the same situation happened to a cop-really? First off a law abiding citizen wouldn't be in a movie theater with a loaded gun.Second,a cop is well trained to handle situations like that,not some dude with 20 some hours of CCW training.I do agree with you,nobody's loved one got gunned down by some hero with a gun,because other than the idiot perp,nobody was breaking the law by having one in there.I already said I support the right of every American citizen to own a gun if they so choose,but I firmly believe that guns should not be allowed in public places.Of course I would be very relieved,and blessed if a loved one of mine was saved from being murdered by any means,but that would still not change my stance.Putting guns in the hands of ordinary citizens does not,and never will stop evil people from doing evil things.How many of these incidents have happened since the CCW laws became in effect? Toronto,Chardon,Denver,Va.Tech,and countless others.Has having legally armed citizens changed any of those outcomes? Violence only leads to more violence any way you look at it.If there's a wacko out there bent on destruction,he's going to do it.I don't really disagree with you all that much,I support your right to own and carry a gun,just not where you choose to carry it.[/QUOTE
> 
> Canada and 2 schools aren't good examples where a CCW holder could have acted.
> 
> ...


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

This country was founded on people standing up and fighting for whats right and wrong. It's now getting taken over by those not willing and condemning those that do. I dont care if you man up or not. But If your scared dont try to push it off others are wrong. You have the right to be. But allowing all the wrongs so called pacifists do is the biggest wrong. Seems the weak and the minorities get all the say these days and that's what ids wrong. When a person has nothing to fear! They fear nothing and will do any thing. Me If Id been there it would have been an honor to blow that sick you know what away! I feel no sorrow for a man taken multiple lives for no reason. But I do believe there are times people need to die. Shooting a person who has a gun in his hand shooting a bunch of strangers isnt judging. Its doing the right thing. There is room for people who do and people who dont but there is no room for people to tell others how to think or act.


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## MuskieLuv (Oct 29, 2007)

Harbor Hunter said:


> You're twisting things a bit here.You originally said if an innocent person got shot by a stray bullet fired from the gun of a law abiding citizen trying to protect himself,and others it would be no different than if the same situation happened to a cop-really? First off a law abiding citizen wouldn't be in a movie theater with a loaded gun.Second,a cop is well trained to handle situations like that,not some dude with 20 some hours of CCW training.I do agree with you,nobody's loved one got gunned down by some hero with a gun,because other than the idiot perp,nobody was breaking the law by having one in there.I already said I support the right of every American citizen to own a gun if they so choose,but I firmly believe that guns should not be allowed in public places.Of course I would be very relieved,and blessed if a loved one of mine was saved from being murdered by any means,but that would still not change my stance.Putting guns in the hands of ordinary citizens does not,and never will stop evil people from doing evil things.How many of these incidents have happened since the CCW laws became in effect? Toronto,Chardon,Denver,Va.Tech,and countless others.Has having legally armed citizens changed any of those outcomes? Violence only leads to more violence any way you look at it.If there's a wacko out there bent on destruction,he's going to do it.I don't really disagree with you all that much,I support your right to own and carry a gun,just not where you choose to carry it.


As far as I know a cop does not get a free pass on shooting a bystander. 

I never said to disobey any "no gun" policies. If the theater was a "no gun" area, I haven't heard one way or the other, then that is just more proof that "no gun" areas are targets. I think most of the other shooting locations you listed are "no gun" areas, hmmmm??

Did you happen to hear about the shooting in the internet cafe a week or two ago? Probably not it didn't get around the clock coverage because it was an older gentleman with a ccw. He saved everyone from two robbers, one with a gun and the other with a bat, he shot both of them with no other injuries. Lots of stories like this but they get little or no covereage from the gun hating media. 

I wouldn't judge every ccw person as not qualified to use their gun. I also would'nt put all my trust in that all cops are qualified to us theirs.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Harbor Hunter said:


> You're twisting things a bit here.You originally said if an innocent person got shot by a stray bullet fired from the gun of a law abiding citizen trying to protect himself,and others it would be no different than if the same situation happened to a cop-really? First off a law abiding citizen wouldn't be in a movie theater with a loaded gun.Second,a cop is well trained to handle situations like that,not some dude with 20 some hours of CCW training.I do agree with you,nobody's loved one got gunned down by some hero with a gun,because other than the idiot perp,nobody was breaking the law by having one in there.I already said I support the right of every American citizen to own a gun if they so choose,but I firmly believe that guns should not be allowed in public places.Of course I would be very relieved,and blessed if a loved one of mine was saved from being murdered by any means,but that would still not change my stance.Putting guns in the hands of ordinary citizens does not,and never will stop evil people from doing evil things.How many of these incidents have happened since the CCW laws became in effect? Toronto,Chardon,Denver,Va.Tech,and countless others.Has having legally armed citizens changed any of those outcomes? Violence only leads to more violence any way you look at it.If there's a wacko out there bent on destruction,he's going to do it.I don't really disagree with you all that much,I support your right to own and carry a gun,just not where you choose to carry it.


How could ccw change any thing if your not allowed guns there?I think law biding citizens should be able to carry any where as that is what the unlawful people do. And if they got them and we dont it wont help. If law biding citizens carrying a legal weapon scares you. Im surprise you leave the house with all these illegals carrying every where ,even in churches.


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## MuskieLuv (Oct 29, 2007)

viper1 said:


> If law biding citizens carrying a legal weapon scares you. Im surprise you leave the house with all these illegals carrying every where ,even in churches.


Good point. Why are we so affraid of law abiding citizens with ccw and we never give a worry to the crimminals until they have us pinned down with gunfire?


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

Here are some points for gun haters to consider :

1. A gun is an inanimate object capable of neither good or evil.
2. An axe in the hands of a lumberjack is a tool, in Lizzie Borden's hands a weapon. See the difference.
3. The reason schools , movie house , eating places and shopping areas are chosen by these cowards is they know their intended victims will be unarmed.
4. The city of Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws in the nation. Are you reading whats going on there now.
5. Everywhere the CCW has passed the crime rate has went down. No exceptions. Yet people still argue.
6. Since the early 1950's our population has more than doubled. More people = More nuts.
7. The police cannot and will not protect you 24/7. To those who hate guns so much having one and not needing it is far better then needing and not having.
8. If you are so anti-gun be careful where and when you state this. To any criminal this makes you an ideal victim. Even criminals think safety first.
9. If this lunatic mowed down and injured these people down with a car or truck would any of you advocate banning driving ?
10. If my neighbor was a law abiding citizen. I would not care if he owned a tank. Matter of fact I would probably feel safer. By virtue of his being law abiding I know that weapon will pose no threat to me.
11. Humans are the things that do evil deeds. No tool is capable of murder by itself. 
12. What " fast and furious " failed to accomplish for the government. This incident may just spark a dreaded outcome that will further erode our personal rights.
13. This Aurora shooting was NOT a tragic accident. It was a well thought out planned CRIME. These members of the lunatics herd need to be thinned not coddled and examined.
14. When I vote I do not use the candidates gun voting record determine how I vote. However when they start to blame the guns for the crime. I suspect their capability of following a train of logic.
15. God Bless and the victims and their families be assisted and comforted by any and all.


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> Not paranoid at all,it's my boat,not his.I won't carry a gun on my boat,do you think I would allow a stranger to do so? For your information I noticed the gun when he was climbing into my truck to back it down the ramp.I made a comment about it whereas he replied that he had a permit for the gun.I said none of that mattered to me I don't want it in my truck,or my boat-Isn't that my choice? He never offered to do anything one way or the other,so I told the tournament director that I didn't want to share my boat with the guy and that was it.Since you called me out,let me return the favor.Because you have a permit to carry a firearm you feel that that entitles you to carry your gun onto my property? Not only that,but come on bro' you honestly feel that you or somebody else needs to be carrying a handgun at a bass tournament? I haven't read every single word of the rules for each bass circuit out there,but I'm pretty sure that carrying a firearm on you during tournament hours would be cause for immediate disqualification.



So why leave that out of your post? You were just asking for a response by not posting that you asked him to leave it behind. Like i said, i assumed you didnt ask him to leave it behind because you didnt mention that in your post, so i stand somewhat corrected. If me or anybody else feels the need to carry a handgun legally at a bass tournament then thats our decision. Who are you to judge why someone wants to have a hand gun or not???

before you become the pot and call me a kettle, let me say this. I judged you originally because you said a guy had a hand gun and you left him at the ramp. No where did you say it was your boat and you didnt want this gun on it. Now that you did say this, i agree its your decision to not allow a gun on your boat. /end


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

Criminals do criminal things, and if there are gun control laws they will break them. If that happens then honest law abiding citizens are left defenseless to criminals with weapons and that is scary.


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## ohiobuck (Apr 8, 2006)

dmills4124 said:


> I think we are both on the same page but just saying it differantly. I have a Win 270 that I just love. My boy had an AR in the 308 and it killed him when he had to sell it to pay bills. The $7k he got for it paid alot of house payments. I would like to add to my weapons collection a couple of 50 cal in desert eagle and long range target(sniper) rifle but not for home defense. Over penatration might be a problem but it would take care of that bike at twoam. My bride loves her S&W45 for her side of the bed. I prefer my 357 law enforcment 6 with 2 rounds of snake load(bird shot) and the rest in Hydra shock hollow points for nighttime home defense. If all else fails I guess the good old remington 380, but thats a lot of drywall repair on one bad guy. We already went thru a period of guns and magazine bands. Now you cant buy any of our own American made carbines of the WWII and korean war era from outside the country. Some weapons are history and collecting and shooting them is a kick for some(me).
> Properly trained people with guns have a tool in their possession just like a motor vehicle. To bad someone wasnt there with the opportunity and weapons training to stop this puke from doing his damage. SAD SAD SAD
> later
> donm


Well said. Thank you

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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

I keep reading posts where people make vague statements about the danger of gun control laws or the danger of guns. We do have "gun contol" laws which make it illegal for felons and crazies to buy guns. You can't drive a Humvee with a loaded fifty cal. down the street unless you are in the military.

There is no sense to the argument going on here. What are you comfortable with, and what can't you live with?


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

papaperch,
Thank you, for your "thoughts to consider"...some good ones for sure! 

Bowhunter57


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## dinkcatcher (Jul 4, 2009)

Harbor Hunter said:


> You're twisting things a bit here.You originally said if an innocent person got shot by a stray bullet fired from the gun of a law abiding citizen trying to protect himself,and others it would be no different than if the same situation happened to a cop-really? First off a law abiding citizen wouldn't be in a movie theater with a loaded gun.Second,a cop is well trained to handle situations like that,not some dude with 20 some hours of CCW training.I do agree with you,nobody's loved one got gunned down by some hero with a gun,because other than the idiot perp,nobody was breaking the law by having one in there.I already said I support the right of every American citizen to own a gun if they so choose,but I firmly believe that guns should not be allowed in public places.Of course I would be very relieved,and blessed if a loved one of mine was saved from being murdered by any means,but that would still not change my stance.Putting guns in the hands of ordinary citizens does not,and never will stop evil people from doing evil things.How many of these incidents have happened since the CCW laws became in effect? Toronto,Chardon,Denver,Va.Tech,and countless others.Has having legally armed citizens changed any of those outcomes? Violence only leads to more violence any way you look at it.If there's a wacko out there bent on destruction,he's going to do it.I don't really disagree with you all that much,I support your right to own and carry a gun,just not where you choose to carry it.



The places of mass shooting you mention(including this theatre) were all "no gun zones". Do you think there's a correlation between the choice of where to do a mass shooting? Criminals like this are cowards and choose a place they know law abiding citizens won't have guns to defend themselves.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

I must admit I do see the logic of the choice of a "no guns allowed' zone as a better choice as a target. Lets face facts: IF you were a crazed "kill`em all " type, pick the safest place to go "unload a few rounds"; A: a kindegarden class or B: Fort Knox (home of the Armored Training Command AND the 82cnd Airborne Division ). Hmm...let me think about that 1...and still think a properly TRAINED shooter could have killed this fool with a shot to the face. (I`ve never seen an "armored" gas mask yet.)


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## alan farver (Apr 9, 2005)

papaperch said:


> Here are some points for gun haters to consider :
> 
> 1. A gun is an inanimate object capable of neither good or evil.
> 2. An axe in the hands of a lumberjack is a tool, in Lizzie Borden's hands a weapon. See the difference.
> ...


excellant points!!!!


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

FOSR said:


> Side question, what would it cost to stock up on all the guns, gear, and that much ammo?


I saw a report that said it would come to about $15,000. Dang. They said he picked up 160 pounds of ammo at a FedEx store.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

well dont feel that has much bearing as one person couldn't carry or even fire that much in the time they would have. I heard some where saying 30,000.00 to accomplish this. Every time i hear it,it keeps getting bigger and better. No he was a pawn in a conspiresy. And the FBI may be involved and planned it. LOL!
Next thing will Obama ordered the FBI to do it.
Really feel bad over it and wish people today didnt enjoy the drama an lies that create and continue these stories. He was a young man who went berserk. Should been shot now he'll probably get life and a early release.
Now if you want some one to blame. Blame the people afraid and against the CCW. For they have as much responsibly for these shootings as any one. When people prevent others from having a chance to protect them self. They have become involved when people get killed because they don't. Most lawful people wouldn't do this but may have stopped it a lot sooner. I also know those people against CCW and making ll the gun laws will deny it. don't matter. Defending your family or others should be 100% legal. Like you always say they have the police for protection see where that got them. I know this wont change your mind. But from now on i hope you remember what I said when an innocent person dies in a place with no guns allowed signs! Sleep on that!


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## firelands (Oct 5, 2006)

I know we're supposed to be a civilized country but why is this creep still alive? If the psycho-babbles get a hold of him he may be alive thirty years from now. His dad kissed him on the lips and it drove him to do this, he got beat up on the playground, what other wacko theory? It wil prove of no value to observe him, he'll just be playing mind games. (he's smart enough to)

There's little doubt he did, it let's be done with him!


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## Pigsticker (Oct 18, 2006)

viper1 said:


> well dont feel that has much bearing as one person couldn't carry or even fire that much in the time they would have. I heard some where saying 30,000.00 to accomplish this. Every time i hear it,it keeps getting bigger and better. No he was a pawn in a conspiresy. And the FBI may be involved and planned it. LOL!
> Next thing will Obama ordered the FBI to do it.
> Really feel bad over it and wish people today didnt enjoy the drama an lies that create and continue these stories. He was a young man who went berserk. Should been shot now he'll probably get life and a early release.
> Now if you want some one to blame. Blame the people afraid and against the CCW. For they have as much responsibly for these shootings as any one. When people prevent others from having a chance to protect them self. They have become involved when people get killed because they don't. Most lawful people wouldn't do this but may have stopped it a lot sooner. I also know those people against CCW and making ll the gun laws will deny it. don't matter. Defending your family or others should be 100% legal. Like you always say they have the police for protection see where that got them. I know this wont change your mind. But from now on i hope you remember what I said when an innocent person dies in a place with no guns allowed signs! Sleep on that!



If u really believe a person who shot over 50 people will ever get out of prison i have some lovely beach front property in New Orleans u may be interested in.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Disclaimer: I think CCW is ok with me...

Think about the environement though guys. Dark, smokey, people panicking and running into you..and you are competely taken by surprise. Does anyone really think an average CCW holder could deal with that and not shoot someone who is innocent (i.e commit murder/manslaughter too)? Most CCW holders train at a controlled range with no adrenaline, an open shot to a target just 30' down range and plenty of time to deliver a round with getting shot themselves. Come on guys...let's be real. That is SWAT or trained military caliber stress...not your "average Joe CCW". He'd just get shot and give the perp another loaded weapon.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

firelands said:


> I know we're supposed to be a civilized country but why is this creep still alive? If the psycho-babbles get a hold of him he may be alive thirty years from now. His dad kissed him on the lips and it drove him to do this, he got beat up on the playground, what other wacko theory? It wil prove of no value to observe him, he'll just be playing mind games. (he's smart enough to)
> 
> There's little doubt he did, it let's be done with him!


OK The next time the cops pull you over, let them be judge and jury over you and execute judgement on the spot.

Do you even know what the Sixth Amendment is?


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

Would you rather Average Joe off the street start administering you CPR during a heart attack, or, would you prefer to wait on the ambulance and "trained" EMTs? Average Joe might just save your life, even though they're not on the payroll of the local government.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

I Fish said:


> Would you rather Average Joe off the street start administering you CPR during a heart attack, or, would you prefer to wait on the ambulance and "trained" EMTs? Average Joe might just save your life, even though they're not on the payroll of the local government.


I would rather have average Joes know CPR and be certified. I would rather not have average Joes that claim to be CPR experts but don't really know anything. That doesn't do me any good.

Same with CCW. I think a CCW holder needs to at a minimum qualify with his weapon once a year and go through some specialized training yearly - weapon retention, stress training (the actual drawing of a CCW with an armed nut bearing down on you), etc. Even with that...this case is above and beyond most.

Off my soapbox now.


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

Pigsticker said:


> If u really believe a person who shot over 50 people will ever get out of prison i have some lovely beach front property in New Orleans u may be interested in.


 It wouldn't surprise me. A guy shot the POTUS and is now walking the streets..Kind of sad.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

Tokugawa said:


> I would rather have average Joes know CPR and be certified. I would rather not have average Joes that claim to be CPR experts but don't really know anything. That doesn't do me any good.
> 
> Same with CCW. I think a CCW holder needs to at a minimum qualify with his weapon once a year and go through some specialized training yearly - weapon retention, stress training (the actual drawing of a CCW with an armed nut bearing down on you), etc. Even with that...this case is above and beyond most.
> 
> Off my soapbox now.


So, what about former military who carry? Retired LEO's that carry. My point is, in that situation, I'd rather someone have the tools to do something, as opposed to nobody having the tools to do anything.

There are a lot of de-fibrilation machines in public buildings. How many people do you know trained to recognize when and how use them? At least a CCW holder knows how to use their tool. I guess, IMO, the best trained person in the world won't help you if they are somewhere else. I don't understand why it seems people anymore have so little faith in their fellow citizens abilities.


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## Pigsticker (Oct 18, 2006)

Slatebar said:


> It wouldn't surprise me. A guy shot the POTUS and is now walking the streets..Kind of sad.


"Walking the streets" is a vague statement. Yes he's allowed supervised visits out of St. Elizabeths Hospital with his parents on a rigid schedule he's not free. He's been incarcerated at that hospital since his insanity plea. He alone killed that plea forever for anyone when many states changed their laws regarding the insanity plea in 1984. It was due to the rightful outrage of the people that his attorneys could manipulate the system so badly. 

I totally agree both Hinckley and the theater shooter should receive the death penalty or life with no chance at parole. I just wanted to clarify because your statement made it sound like he was on parole or just outright released which won't ever happen for either men.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

FOSR said:


> I disagree. This doesn't scare me, compared to every* cell phone yakking* SUV running red lights and stop signs. That's WAY more likely to hurt me.


Ain't that the truth!


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

I Fish said:


> So, what about former military who carry? Retired LEO's that carry. At least a* CCW holder knows how to use their tool*.


When they are active they go through regular training.



*Can't agree with that statement at all.*


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

Not to take the topic down a different path, but i really do hope its the death penalty. This guy cannot be rehabilitated, and dont see the point of him sitting in prison for life with no chance of parole. I really dont understand why we do keep those convicts around. I mean i know there is a possibility of innocence but IMO id rather be dead than wait 50 years to be freed...


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

Did you ever learn to ride a bicycle? Did you ever forget how to ride it? Why do people think someone with concealed carry is going to carry around a gun they don't know how to use?


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## fakebait (Jun 18, 2006)

Just my two cents. What happen is just a small look at our cruel society and what it has become. It was senseless crime done by a person that had social issues that should have been noticed by family and friends long before his madness came out. We are all so busy trying to survive day to day, allot of things go by un noticed untill it is to late. Soon as the news story broke I knew every anti gun person in the liberal news agencies would be hot and heavy on the gun owners of America. Now one simple question. If this guy would have plowed into the large crowd of people outside the theater with his car and killed just as many people, would people be calling for all cars and owners to have to give up their right to the freedom of mobility. As well as going after all car dealerships and manufactures ? Just food for thought ! My heart goes out to all the families for their losses.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

I don`t think that the majority of Americans are "anti guns". PERSONALLY I AM "anti" military assault rifle caliber weapons being available to the general public along with 30, and 50 and even more round clips. Am also against being able to purchase "cop killer' graphite coated bullets, RPGs, machine guns, bazookas, "Stinger" man portable anti- aircraft missiles, flame throwers and other MILITARY grade weapons. Honest to holy heaven, name 1 single REALISTIC situation where anyone could possibly ACTUALLY need a 50 round magazine? ( Other than facing a Imperial Japanese Army "Banzai !" human wave attack...) If you can`t hit an intruder with 10 rds or less just use that very expensive weapon as a club...and then get some more range time in.


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## MuskieLuv (Oct 29, 2007)

Can I get an RPG?? That would look awesome over the mantle!!

Ok, no more 100 round mags, problem solved. No more crazy people.


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## Gills63 (Mar 29, 2012)

I have to imagine that DUIs kill this number of people daily, so let's ban alcohol and cars. 

I won't argue that people need high capacity mags, most are junk anyways. A shotgun with an extended tube full of buckshot could have been just as devastating, if not more so. The fact that this dimrod used an AR is irrelevant to people who know guns. 

If he would have used a Ka-Bar, folks would say we should ban military style assault knives.

Mental illness and murder are as old as man, good luck outlawing them.



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## MuskieLuv (Oct 29, 2007)

14 people killed today in Texas in a single car crash. Got 5 seconds of coverage on news I watched. Guess that is just socialy exceptable since no gun was involved.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

A lot of you have brought up why someone with a CCW permit didn't try to stop the guy. I've been wondering why no one tried, CCW or not. I realize that with the gas going off and the really LOUD report of an AR in enclosed theater can all be intimidating. The Perp though did have a gas mask on which limits his vision. I have to wonder why a few brave souls didn't try to tackle him from behind? Again, I just can't imagine a scenario like that one and don't blame anyone for not trying...just wondering.

Here is a link to another persons wonder about same thing.

http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_James_Holmes_Batman_shooting.html


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

ezbite said:


> nobody can deny this is a possibility...
> 
> http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html


yeah but what are the odds? I've been accused of being a "conspiracy theory" dude, but I don't buy it here. The stuff he had can be bought openly off any website and I'm sure , in this day and age, there are plenty of sites to learn how to make bombs and stuff.

"In other words, this guy was equipped with exotic gear by someone with connections to military equipment. SWAT clothing, explosives, complex booby-traps... c'mon, this isn't a "lone gunman." This is somebody who was selected for a mission, given equipment to carry it out, then somehow brainwashed into getting it done."

the author is a bit of a joke, IMO. there is nothing really "exotic" about his gear...it's COMMONLY available. I also doubt the 20k price tag for everything quoted as well. Somewhere he went off the deep end. a 100mg of vicodin in his system, as reported, makes me wonder how he could even lift a weapon though. As in my other post....(hindsight being 20/20) with all that vicodin in him and his AR jamming, why wasn't he tackled?


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

I Fish said:


> So, what about former military who carry? Retired LEO's that carry. My point is, in that situation, I'd rather someone have the tools to do something, as opposed to nobody having the tools to do anything.
> 
> There are a lot of de-fibrilation machines in public buildings. How many people do you know trained to recognize when and how use them? At least a CCW holder knows how to use their tool. I guess, IMO, the best trained person in the world won't help you if they are somewhere else. I don't understand why it seems people anymore have so little faith in their fellow citizens abilities.


I disagree with your premise that a CCW holder knows how to use thier WEAPON - it is not a tool and it is not a defib machine. That shows how much you don't understand about the weapon.

You know why I don't have faith? I'm not a big deal, but I train at least once weekly...often times multiple times a week with people who know their weapons. SWAT members. Active LE. Prison guards who go in without firearms. Unfortunately, a lot of the employed and full time LE guys could not handle that situation. It is unfair to expect an average citizen who holds a CCW to operate effectively in that environment under that stress level. They just aren't prepared for it physically, mentally or tactically.


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## MuskieLuv (Oct 29, 2007)

boatnut said:


> A lot of you have brought up why someone with a CCW permit didn't try to stop the guy. I've been wondering why no one tried, CCW or not. I realize that with the gas going off and the really LOUD report of an AR in enclosed theater can all be intimidating. The Perp though did have a gas mask on which limits his vision. I have to wonder why a few brave souls didn't try to tackle him from behind? Again, I just can't imagine a scenario like that one and don't blame anyone for not trying...just wondering.
> 
> Here is a link to another persons wonder about same thing.
> 
> http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_James_Holmes_Batman_shooting.html


We are a society of people taught to not hit your sister, don't fight in school, penalty in sprots for fighting, tap out and the fight stops. I'm not saying these are bad things they are good, but along the way no one ever said you may have to forget all those rules and fight for your life with an asocial mindset. We are taught the police will protect us, you are safe. No one wants to talk about the boogy man. 

Was there an opportunity that night, we can't answer that.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

Tokugawa said:


> That shows how much you don't understand about the weapon........
> 
> You know why I don't have faith?..... Unfortunately, a lot of the employed and full time LE guys could not handle that situation.


If you are right, who is qualified? 2 LE officers out of 10? 2 out of 100? I'm defending the fact that a CCW holder may have been able to make a difference, in the face of those who seem to think about guns with emotion, as opposed to logic. Logic tells me, an armed by-stander could have saved a lot of victims, trained or not. Maybe they wouldn't have acted as though a "trained" LE officer would have, but, could have stopped the situation none the less.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

As far as someone shooting this sorry excuse of a human being, will agree too that the real life "Rambo"s are far and few in between. Add a dark theater, the gas, screaming mass of people running every direction and it does become a daunting task. In 17+ yrs in the Guards saw people just turn to jello on a firing range, they were SO scared of their own weapons WITH an instructor patiently coaching and encouraging them. Studied after action reports from the Spanish American War to the Balkens and a surprising fact emerges: 10% of the soldiers simply WILL NOT fire their weapon PERIOD. 50% will usually simply spray rounds in the direction of the enemy. It boils down to about 15- 20% of any particular regular infantry unit does 90- 95% of the killing of the enemy. Always surprised me that someone KNOWING and forewarned they`re about to face a kill or be killed situation simply either runs away or does nothing...


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

In that situation guns firing at him. He would have stopped and ran out with out getting hit. He didnt want to die he was scared. Proved it with the protection then again cowering and hiding till he surendered peacefully. Im sure the police would have rather him fighting.


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## Gills63 (Mar 29, 2012)

Its true and nobody knows how they will react until they are in that situation.

Without having been there none of us can know if an opportunity to stop him would have been presented itself.

The one thing we can take away from such incidents is to mentally rehearse what we would do if we are ever faced with a similar situation.

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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

Gills63 said:


> Its true and nobody knows how they will react until they are in that situation.
> 
> Without having been there none of us can know if an opportunity to stop him would have been presented itself.
> 
> The one thing we can take away from such incidents is to mentally rehearse what we would do if we are ever faced with a similar situation.


Gills63,
You have covered it all with your statement, sir. 

Should of, would of, could of in one hand and a doughnut in the other and all you have is breakfast. 

I'd like to think that I'm somewhat prepared, but at the same time I pray that *THAT DAY* never comes to my doorstep. It's our society...you just don't know where THAT place may be, any more. 

Bowhunter57


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

viper1 said:


> He didnt want to die he was scared.


I've also heard he would have been planning to go somewhere else. He had the second pistol in the car and he wasn't planning on going home. He knew the theater was a soft target with no returning fire, so why the body armor? He must have been planning on a standoff somewhere, probably with the intention of taking out as many people as possible before he went down.


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## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

Woulda, coulda, shoulda but in the heat of the moment things happen differently. Sure anyone can say I would of shot the guy with a head shot from 100 ft away in the pitch black with only a movie playing on the screen while people are running every which way but a ccw carrier in a dark tear gas filled theater full of panicked people running for their lives could of made the situation even worse than it was. Now its time for the political lies to start! The ones saying they are gonna take everyone's guns away. Instead of treating this as a tragedy they got to use it for profit and get people so full of fear they run out and buy their products! lol! I heard sales went up 50% the day after. Americans are crazy!!!


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

There was a guy interviewed on the news who`s buying 3 AKs, 1 each for him and his wife and 1 for his 13 yr old. He DID admit he hadn`t ever fired any type of weapon before... I wonder how much "safer' he and his family really are, with his admitting he anyway has NO experience whatso ever? On the bright side, atleast he DIDN`T buy a machine gun.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Lowell H Turner said:


> There was a guy interviewed on the news who`s buying 3 AKs, 1 each for him and his wife and 1 for his 13 yr old. He DID admit he hadn`t ever fired any type of weapon before... I wonder how much "safer' he and his family really are, with his admitting he anyway has NO experience whatso ever? On the bright side, atleast he DIDN`T buy a machine gun.


He really should start with a .38


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

Tokugawa said:


> He really should start with a .38


I don't believe there is a specific caliber you should start with. IMO what he should do is go to a range and rent a gun, find the one he feels most confident with, then try different calibers to the same end.

I have trouble shooting SOME smaller caliber guns and my wife is the oposite. I prefer 9mm and up while she likes 9mm and below.

Someone with little or no experience should find the right weapon first and become confident before buying something that they can't actually use and therefore can't protect themselves with... Just my 2 cents....

A

I don't always fish for Bass, but when I do, I prefer big'uns. Fish hard my friends....


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

You think all this anti gun crap is bad, wait till the media finds out that he played cod, halo, or any other fps out there! (That's assuming he does.)


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

jonny, So are you for or against violent video games? Personally, I could do without them. But I know lot of people who like them and play them.

Either way is your choice.... From reading your post on OGF, you sound like a mature young man. And you're around a lot of great people on this site.

Good luck fishing this year and be safe.....


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## dinkcatcher (Jul 4, 2009)

I think we can all agree that the worst possible scenario happened- a large room full of unarmed citizens trapped by a maniac with several guns. We know for sure how that turned out. " like shooting fish in a barrel" I say we try another way

_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

I AGREE whole heartedly. Starting with a revolver to get some experience would likely be a VERY GOOD idea. It was the gentleman`s statement he had NO experience "what so ever' and was also buying 1 for his 13 yr old that made me wonder. I could easily see a tragic scene occur. Many people simply think an assault rifle is no different than a 22 long...WRONG !


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