# Bassmaster Classic!



## skycruiser

i'm pretty pumped to watch the classic this weekend. I'm hoping Iaconelli can bring the title back to the east coast! here's a great site with updates and news on the classic. be sure to set your DVR's!

http://www.bassfan.com/docktalk.asp?id=7010#7010


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## castmaster00

Kvd can do the same thing as well! He is my first choice. We have a lot of the same fishing styles.


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## Fish G3

I'm pumped too. I'm rooting for Duckett and Skeet. I don't think KVD will do very well.


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## The Saint

KVD or Mike Iaconelli my picks


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## JDBFISHIN

Bring on the BUCKET MOUTHS!!! I love the Space Monkey (Iaconelli) I'll be pulling for him. KVD and Skeet will be in the thick of it we all know that. Can't wait.


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## Bass_Hawg

Im Rooting for Kelly Jordon. I have always liked his style of fishing. Cant wait to see some coverage. Hope it is good. Last year I thought the coverage wasnt very good..


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## young-gun21

Bass_Hawg said:


> Last year I thought the coverage wasnt very good..


So far the coverage has been pretty bad in my opinion. The lack of a live weigh-in is a joke (unless you get ESPN 360). For God's sake Nip will have a live feed of Mosquito Madness before ESPN gets it together with B.A.S.S. I understand that they can't show an entire 8 hour tournament (although they should use ESPN U for something) but they could easily do the weigh in live.

The Bass Zone has been okay...I'll be watching the "post game show" around 7:30.


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## CARP 104

KVD is on top yet again. Will be interesting to see how Day 2 goes.


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## sisezz73

I believe it would be hard to keep people interested in a live weigh in. For 51 anglers over 2 hours. Hell after the first hour the crowd was already leaving. They kept Ike for last just to try and keep the audience their. I can see on the last day when you know someone is going to win but not today.... Also with Bass trakk it takes the fun out of it anyway. That's why I love tournament fishing cause you just don't know until the end.


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## basmuskyanglr

I agree. The coverage was bad, they could have had it on espn2, running 15 minute updates every hour. or something. I knew they were up to something when Mike still didn't weigh in. The coverage on the net was so, so. I'll be watching it on ESPN Sat though. Wish I could be there!!!!


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## Procraftboats21

hands down one of the best quotes i've ever heard.

"I think those winders caught them today."
&#8212;Greg Hackney, an admitted jig freak 

at least someone understands ...


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## lordofthepunks

young-gun21 said:


> So far the coverage has been pretty bad in my opinion. The lack of a live weigh-in is a joke (unless you get ESPN 360). For God's sake Nip will have a live feed of Mosquito Madness before ESPN gets it together with B.A.S.S. I understand that they can't show an entire 8 hour tournament (although they should use ESPN U for something) but they could easily do the weigh in live.
> 
> The Bass Zone has been okay...I'll be watching the "post game show" around 7:30.


i agree with this 100%. espn has like 20 alternate channels, if they had an 8 hour coverage of the event, i would be tuned in all day long. the coverage is lame at this point. i know its not everyones cup of tea but coverage longer then a 1 hour condensed highlight would be far more interesting to me.


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## SeaRayder

Watchin' the weighins on ESPN360.com. 

Kinda nice when the pro's bag is empty. Make me feel like they're human. So what's up with Skeet?


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## SeaRayder

So Skeet just said he got "confused" and didn't even get a bite today! 

Wow -felt like a rookie! He feels for us when we get "skunked" and said he feels our pain. Said he's shaving his head if he doesn't get a bite at the next tourney...


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## Buzzman

Holy cow - 4 ounces separate the top three going into tomorrow...


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## SeaRayder

As much as I like KVD's style, I always love when the torch gets passed around.


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## Buzzman

Well, looking at who didn't make the top 25... I'd say there is some new blood in there. Understand about KVD, though - how many times have we seen KVD and Ike right there in the past??? 

BTW - who had Pam Martin Wells in their fantasy gigs???


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## SeaRayder

Off to play BassPro's "The Strike" game. 

I just won the Invitational last night and gotta try out my new boat with the Merc 300. I've been playing it on the Wii and it's made my winter much more manageable!


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## Fish G3

A lot of big names didn't fair well at all this tourney. I'd like to see Pam Martin-Wells finish right up there. I would have to think it was huge for her to get this far and she even technically led the tourney/first to limit out this morning. Huge props to her. I wouldn't mind seeing Kriet take it all either.


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## 1mecheng

Are the pros allowed to keep foul-hooked fish? It looked like 1 or two of the fish shown during the day 2 fishing weren't hooked in the mouth, but rather closer to the gills.

Day 3 should be exciting to watch! I wonder if Beeswax Creek will continue to produce for a 3rd day.


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## Tiny Tim

You can keep a fowl hooked one as long as you were not trying to snag it on purpose. That happens a lot with cranks. I think it will be a close finish but Kriet has the upper hand. With the water dropping and all he will have first shot at them before they move up to where VanDam is fishing. He is fishing out in a little deeper water.


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## Marshall

Skeet should have kept his head shaved. He doesn't fish as good with the pretty boy hair! Pretty exciting so far. Its nice to see some of them struggle and work for their fish like most of us have to here in ohio. I love the conditions also. I just wonder if beeswax creek can pump out enough fish for day 3.


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## Buzzman

I think Tim Horton is right... which one of those guys has the guts to leave Beeswax Creek??? If they don't, I bet someone else jumps up (Tak, Ike, Lane and Biffle have shown consistency, are only lacking a big bite or two and are all within striking distance).


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## ProAngler

Boring tournament,hey, how about throwing a rattle trap. A few guys at the top fishing the same way in the same creek- Lame!!! Yeah, it's a close race, but the only thing that will save this event is to have someone come from behind and steal it. If day 3 goes like 1-2, I see a boring finish. Weights will drop today and a 14# bag will be a big sack. Look for Russ Lane to take the win!


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## leeabu

1mecheng said:


> Are the pros allowed to keep foul-hooked fish? It looked like 1 or two of the fish shown during the day 2 fishing weren't hooked in the mouth, but rather closer to the gills.
> 
> Day 3 should be exciting to watch! I wonder if Beeswax Creek will continue to produce for a 3rd day.


With a lipless crankbait, 99% of the bites are on the front hook. The trick is to have very sharp hooks , especially on the back. Usually the back hook will lodge in the gill plate. So if the fron hook comes out of the mouth, you still have the back hook. That is what you saw, not a foul hooked fish; but a fair hooked fish that the front hook came out of the mouth.


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## Buzzman

Looks like Russ Lane pulled out of Beeswax Creek and went to a spot where he landed a 6# fish... Things are getting interesting!!!


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## SeaRayder

As of 1:12 - no surprise at KVD

1 Kevin VanDam 46 lbs 15 oz 
2 Russ Lane 45 lbs 7 oz 
3 Jeff Kriet 41 lbs 5 oz 
4 Todd Faircloth 34 lbs 10 oz 
5 Brent Chapman 33 lbs 12 oz 
6 Michael Iaconelli 32 lbs 12 oz 
7 Matt Herren 31 lbs 15 oz 
8 Jeff Freeman 31 lbs 12 oz 
9 Aaron Martens 29 lbs 12 oz 
10 Cliff Crochet 28 lbs 13 oz 
11 Takahiro Omori 28 lbs 11 oz 
12 Bobby Lane 27 lbs 5 oz 
13 Tommy Biffle 26 lbs 1 oz 
14 Mark Tucker 25 lbs 10 oz 
15 Kotaro Kiriyama 24 lbs 14 oz 
16 Kevin Wirth 24 lbs 14 oz 
17 Cliff Pace 24 lbs 9 oz 
18 Pam Martin-Wells 23 lbs 3 oz 
19 Gerald Swindle 22 lbs 11 oz 
20 Billy McCaghren 22 lbs 0 oz 
21 James Niggemeyer 21 lbs 7 oz 
22 Dean Rojas 17 lbs 14 oz 
23 Stephen Browning 17 lbs 13 oz 
24 Shaw E Grigsby 17 lbs 6 oz 
25 Jason Quinn 15 lbs 9 oz


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## CARP 104

KVD Slammed em!


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## SeaRayder

I read somewhere that he studies lakes for weeks at a time, and prefishes with 40 pre-rigged poles to learn what's happening. Whatever he's doing...sure hope he's still having fun! It would be fun to watch KVD go shark fishing...lookout Jaws!


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## lordofthepunks

leeabu said:


> With a lipless crankbait, 99% of the bites are on the front hook. The trick is to have very sharp hooks , especially on the back. Usually the back hook will lodge in the gill plate. So if the fron hook comes out of the mouth, you still have the back hook. That is what you saw, not a foul hooked fish; but a fair hooked fish that the front hook came out of the mouth.


wow, telling someone what they saw? sounds like a conspiracy.

he definately saw foul hooked fish because i saw foul hooked fish as well. one fish ike dragged in was tail first. i doubt that fish was a case of the front hook coming out and the rear hook sticking. the fish may have taken a swipe at the bait but the fish clearly was not hooked anywhere near the mouth and that is usually a sign that a fish was actually trying to get away from your bait. its still legal though like the other guy said, as long as it wasnt done intentional.

when he said "foul hooked" i dont think he was referring to it as being a "foul". he was just refering to it as not hooked in the mouth.


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## 1mecheng

LOTP - Yes. I was referring to fish being hooked somewhere other than the mouth. Sorry if the term "foul-hooked" was unclear.

ESPN showed Vandam bringing in a fish hooked in the middle of the back on day 3, and talked about how it was the 2nd fish he'd landed like that. The announcers quote was something like "The fish missed it by 3 or 4 inches, and he (Vandam) still caught it".


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## catfish_hunter

Just finished watching the final weigh ins on ESPN. I cant even imagine winning 3 Bass Master Classics...KVD is the man, He can find fish ANYWHERE!


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## Thick Rick

Yes there were some fish foul hooked. Just yesterday, KVD hooked one in the back. He said it was hooked in the back while fighting it and because it was hooked that way, he said "I really hate this" while trying to get it in the boat.

As for the earlier comment about this being a boring tournament because the top players were fishing the same way in the same area, what would you expect? If a football team could keep running the same defense to stop their oppenent the whole game while pounding the ball down their throat with the run over and over, should they change up? Rattle traps are great coldwater baits. They were fishing cold water. Rattle traps worked, especially in that creek. Should they have changed bait and location to make the tournament more exciting? Last year Skeet and Ike were fishing the same style in the same TYPE of area.

As for the coverage, I hear you about 8 hours of coverage. I would watch a lot of it. Couple things to take into account. How much money would it cost to put on that type of coverage? Can ESPN make money off of that? Most of us on this board would watch most of it. But can they really get enough viewers all day to make it worthwhile? Also, especially day 1, I would guess most fishermen that are having success do not want every detail on TV for their competition to find out about. This is why day 1 was only a 1 hour broadcast and day 3 had so much more detail about where and how they were fishing.


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## ProAngler

Thick Rick said:


> Yes there were some fish foul hooked. Just yesterday, KVD hooked one in the back. He said it was hooked in the back while fighting it and because it was hooked that way, he said "I really hate this" while trying to get it in the boat.
> 
> As for the earlier comment about this being a boring tournament because the top players were fishing the same way in the same area, what would you expect? If a football team could keep running the same defense to stop their oppenent the whole game while pounding the ball down their throat with the run over and over, should they change up? Rattle traps are great coldwater baits. They were fishing cold water. Rattle traps worked, especially in that creek. Should they have changed bait and location to make the tournament more exciting? Last year Skeet and Ike were fishing the same style in the same TYPE of area.
> 
> As for the coverage, I hear you about 8 hours of coverage. I would watch a lot of it. Couple things to take into account. How much money would it cost to put on that type of coverage? Can ESPN make money off of that? Most of us on this board would watch most of it. But can they really get enough viewers all day to make it worthwhile? Also, especially day 1, I would guess most fishermen that are having success do not want every detail on TV for their competition to find out about. This is why day 1 was only a 1 hour broadcast and day 3 had so much more detail about where and how they were fishing.




This Classic was boring, bottom line, theorize all you want! 
ESPN blows just as bad!!


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## crittergitter

I watched some of it, but dang I could not stay up til midnight to watch the end of it last night. I thought Lane would make that move pay off and it nearly did. I bet had he stayed the course he would not have been in the top 3 so he gave himself a chance to win. KVD is a great meticulous fisherman. That was some rod he was using for that application to.

They snagged some fish, but that wasn't a big turn off for me. The rules apply the same to ALL the competitors. 

TV coverage.........I would like to see more footage of the guys fishing and less of Zona and dorkman. Since, TR used a football analogy. Imagine seeing the announcers of an NFL game for 40% of the broadcast. 

I also don't get only allowing top 10 to compete on the final day. Let them all fish and have a chance to move up. Didnt' they do it that way back in the day? Give em all 3 days and the best 3 days wins.


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## brandon0891

For those of you whom want coverage all day long I have a question for you. If your fishing a tournament and your really stroking the bass going for the win and I pull up along side you will you show me exactly how your fishing so that I can copy you and now you possibly lose the tournament. Nobody is ever happy about this coverage. It is better than nothing. If you want the best coverage hop in your truck tow your boat to the classic and follow your fav guy to all of his spots. 

I can see ESPN covering the live weigh ins but it all boils down to money. What is their return on investment for this? Yes maybe they could throw it on ESPN U and see how the viewership is. 

Instead of everyone complaining on this forum about lack of coverage you could spend that energy contacting ESPN and asking for what you want. I am sure if enough people are asking for the same thing they will look into giving people what they want.


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## Steel Cranium

Interesting fact that was mentioned was many tourneys are held on that lake and all bass are released in that creek. Many stay and spawn in that area, making it a unique and productive area on that lake.

Same thing was present at Ladue back when they rented boats. Tourneys released their bass at the boathouse. Many folks at the end of the day released their minnows and dumped their worms at the boathouse. I caught many good bass at Ladue within casting distance of the boathouse shoreline, thinking that the bass would hang around that area late in the day for their feeding. Helped to make some poor fishing days good by snaring a few good bass on the way in.


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## leeabu

lordofthepunks said:


> wow, telling someone what they saw? sounds like a conspiracy.
> 
> he definately saw foul hooked fish because i saw foul hooked fish as well. one fish ike dragged in was tail first. i doubt that fish was a case of the front hook coming out and the rear hook sticking. the fish may have taken a swipe at the bait but the fish clearly was not hooked anywhere near the mouth and that is usually a sign that a fish was actually trying to get away from your bait. its still legal though like the other guy said, as long as it wasnt done intentional.
> 
> when he said "foul hooked" i dont think he was referring to it as being a "foul". he was just refering to it as not hooked in the mouth.


I did not watch all the coverage! I should not have used the terms "what you saw". Instead what I saw on the coverage I watched were two instances of the rear hook in the gill plate and the front hook free. As I fish a lipless crank bait often, I know this is a common occurence. I am very sorry if I offended you!


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## fishslim

I am still confused are you saying in the tourney rules you are allowed to keep foul hooked fish or is that just what goes on? I thought a fish hooked in the back was snagged no if ands or buts. And a snagged fish in your possesion was worthy of a fine. I am just asking because if i was was second place guy and that foul hooked fish was bigger and creelable in getting rid of a smaller fish that won the tourney i would not be happy. Just me!!


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## young-gun21

brandon0891 said:


> For those of you whom want coverage all day long I have a question for you. If your fishing a tournament and your really stroking the bass going for the win and I pull up along side you will you show me exactly how your fishing so that I can copy you and now you possibly lose the tournament. Nobody is ever happy about this coverage. It is better than nothing. If you want the best coverage hop in your truck tow your boat to the classic and follow your fav guy to all of his spots.
> 
> I can see ESPN covering the live weigh ins but it all boils down to money. What is their return on investment for this? Yes maybe they could throw it on ESPN U and see how the viewership is.
> 
> Instead of everyone complaining on this forum about lack of coverage you could spend that energy contacting ESPN and asking for what you want. I am sure if enough people are asking for the same thing they will look into giving people what they want.


To your first point, as a tournament angler, no...I would not enjoy that. But there are spectator boats by the hundreds...camera men by the dozens and numerous media outlets covering all of the anglers. They have a "live" blog updating everyone (even if it's not entirely accurate) by the minute practically. Your gonna have to sell me on something other than these guys don't need a few more boats on the water with them. I know that there is a fine line when your dealing with guys keeping some things "secret" but seriously...it's the only tournament of the year that has the Champion take the ESPN car wash. And for the record, all I'm asking for is a live weigh in...even on the computer. 

To your third point about everyone complaining...this is a public forum and I'm fairly certain that most use it exactly how it's intended. Everyone has the ability to voice their opinions...just as you have the ability to not click on the thread titled "Bassmaster Classic". Just a thought.


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## Nipididdee

foul hooked fish outside of the mouth are legal if not sight fishing.

Vandam's comments about "I hate this" most likely because it's a difficult land, likely to pull out of fish on sudden bursts.

Fish are frequently caught outside on mouth,body,etc on any multihook presentations.

A three pounder in the tail will turn into 7-8lbs real quick!

PS- I thought ESPN actually did a nice job this year- action packed, good editing, Zona is cool.

nip
www.dobass.com


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## lg_mouth

...that the coverage is horrible. I don't remember in years past having to wait until 10 p.m. to watch the Classic! 

lg_mouth


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## Bassnpro1

lg_mouth said:


> ...that the coverage is horrible. I don't remember in years past having to wait until 10 p.m. to watch the Classic!
> 
> lg_mouth



You didn't you had to wait until the next Saturday to see coverage.


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## BFG

I just don't get it. The last fish that KVD kept and weighed was snagged in the back. Ike brought one in that was snagged in the tail. Ike didn't want the camera to see so he put it in front of him and ran to the bow and un-hooked it. 

I don't now how a DNR officer could enforce "intentionally trying to snag..."

Does use of a hook and line get one out of jail here? If so, I'd like to invite all of you to the Maumee river this spring to fish with me and I'll have a DNR officer explain to you just what "snagging" is...

It's a big deal. I would be hacked off if I got beat by a guy who raked weighted treble hooks through a weed bed trying to run into fish that were lethargic at best in cold water. 

Yep..there were plenty that were caught in the mouth...but there was at least one on Saturday that I saw..and definitely two on Sunday that I saw...that were snagged. 

Basically, that ruined the entire tournament for me.


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## Papascott

I was up til midnight watching it. I have to admit when I saw KVD put that last fish in his livewell I was very suprized. Middle of the back about 3 inches behind the gills even. 

Nip, is what you are saying tournament rules for bass, state law, etc, etc?

Scott


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## lordofthepunks

BFG said:


> I just don't get it. The last fish that KVD kept and weighed was snagged in the back. Ike brought one in that was snagged in the tail. Ike didn't want the camera to see so he put it in front of him and ran to the bow and un-hooked it.
> 
> I don't now how a DNR officer could enforce "intentionally trying to snag..."
> 
> Does use of a hook and line get one out of jail here? If so, I'd like to invite all of you to the Maumee river this spring to fish with me and I'll have a DNR officer explain to you just what "snagging" is...
> 
> It's a big deal. I would be hacked off if I got beat by a guy who raked weighted treble hooks through a weed bed trying to run into fish that were lethargic at best in cold water.
> 
> Yep..there were plenty that were caught in the mouth...but there was at least one on Saturday that I saw..and definitely two on Sunday that I saw...that were snagged.
> 
> Basically, that ruined the entire tournament for me.



wow, the rules are the rules and they have been such for a long time. it doesnt matter if you get it and it doesnt matter if the camera saw it or not. 

b.a.s.s. enforces their rules like no one else. if someone violates a rule they are subject to huge penalties and they all have an observer to let the officials now what went on. 

i can guarentee that ike wasnt hiding that fish from the camera because it didnt matter whether the camera saw it or not. if it were illegal to put that fish in the livewell then he wouldnt have done it and if he had done it and it was illegal then he would have had to forfit that days weight.


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## lordofthepunks

leeabu said:


> I did not watch all the coverage! I should not have used the terms "what you saw". Instead what I saw on the coverage I watched were two instances of the rear hook in the gill plate and the front hook free. As I fish a lipless crank bait often, I know this is a common occurence. I am very sorry if I offended you!


i am not offended. 

things that offend me- 

fat people riding in the motorized carts at wal-mart

people that go out of there way to run over animals on the road 

religions that extort money from the elderly


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## Nipididdee

these things aren't trout guys...

they are attempted to be caught in a live sporting manner... 

draggin' weighted hooks through weed beds as suggested, come on really  you wouldn't need enforcement, ther'd be a group of anglers buring down your house that night !%

Those fish were striking the bait-smakn' it etc. It's a very very common occurrance in bass fishing techniques such as jerbaits,cranks,etc.

Compliant with tourney rules and state law and etc.

Geeze- I'm glad you guys stick with those walleyes that you eat too many of!


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## Harbor Hunter

Whenever I'm throwing a lipless crank,or a jerkbait such as a Pointer,it's very common to hook a fish in the back,or the gill plate.A lot of times the way a lure is constructed,it will allow for the front trebles to come out of a fish's mouth,the rear treble then is free to stick into something other than the mouth.As far as tail hooked fish,that's a pretty common occurence when bass fishing also.Bass have a tendency to swat at a lure with their tail just wanting to stun the bait(bait),with a lure like a lipless crank,this action will result in some tail hooked bass.As long as you're not intentionally trying to snag a fish,there's no problem with keeping a fish that's not hooked in the mouth.I can't believe I actually read where someone said that the guys were burning their baits through the weeds trying to snag lethargic bass-lol.BTW,the 3rd day of the event there's 25 people fishing,not 10.I enjoyed the coverage,but I have 360 though.


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## lordofthepunks

Nipididdee said:


> these things aren't trout guys...
> 
> they are attempted to be caught in a live sporting manner...
> 
> draggin' weighted hooks through weed beds as suggested, come on really  you wouldn't need enforcement, ther'd be a group of anglers buring down your house that night !%
> 
> Those fish were striking the bait-smakn' it etc. It's a very very common occurrance in bass fishing techniques such as jerbaits,cranks,etc.
> 
> Compliant with tourney rules and state law and etc.
> 
> Geeze- I'm glad you guys stick with those walleyes that you eat too many of!


"you said it man!" - the jesus


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## Buick Riviera

Boyd Duckett had boat problems the first day. Anyone ever hear what kind of problems he had? I know he had to switch mid-day to a back-up boat.

Buick


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## young-gun21

I guess the biggest problem with the tv coverage is how they try to tailor it to the casual fan. I understand this to a degree but if they're trying to attract new fans then they need to do more throughout the Elite Series season...not just cram it into 6 hours and a few Skeet Reese commercials. 

I lost track of how many times they called KVD the greatest bass fisherman alive. All I could think about was how 90% of the viewing audience are the grass roots anglers that started the sport and keep it alive...we already know this. Like I said, I understand that they have to sort of "dumb it down" for the casual fan...but how many casual fans are staying up until midnight to watch that broadcast?? Thank God for Zona...he makes the coverage watchable.


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## Fish G3

Buick Riviera said:


> Boyd Duckett had boat problems the first day. Anyone ever hear what kind of problems he had? I know he had to switch mid-day to a back-up boat.
> 
> Buick


I worked all weekend didn't get to watch any of it but I believe I heard he just straight up blew his engine.


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## fishslim

Again all i am saying is bass fishermen are not above the laws as is no one else i use lipless cranks all the time and understand what you are saying as to fish endind up with hooks in gill or head but come on guys a fish with hooks in it's back,is because it swam in front of a moving lure and got snagged. Get real as for walleye,saugeye,crappie muskies if not in mouth when i land them they go back in the water. To each there own all i am saying is laws are laws and if you want to keep bass foul hooked then push to put them on the trash fish species then you can foul hook all you want. Man i am ready for open water!! As for bass slapping bait before they eat it that is a new one on me would love to see video of that i always seem to see them with there mouth wide open sucking bait into ther mouth.


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## Nipididdee

Better stick to the trolln' fishslim  Worm dirt in your ear I think...

CA you'll see'em go back- WI as well, we watched Steve Kennedy throw back 8lbrs galore off a swimbait in CA....

AL he's good. 

I know it hard to grasp a fish actually being active and not resorting to the 
2x4 effect when reeled in at 150 clicks out....but bass, especially cold ones, smack and fit around the bait moreso than eating  

a bass actually tries to get rid of the bait unlike those little logs

It's surprising to me to see the generated response accross many message boards about this topic from the classic- especially national ones, even bass dudes (so they claim)...I guess winter has everyone down.


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## 1mecheng

I was doing some additional thinking about the hooked-in-the-back bass caught by KVD. I've got to believe that it was unintentional. I can't imagine an angler with that much media and spectator attention on him intentionally going after fish like that. My original issue was whether or not he (KVD) was legally allowed to keep it. (Either by state rule or tournament rule).

While we think of putting the bass into the live bait well as "keeping it", perhaps the loophole is that all tournament bass are theoretically released back to the water live after the weigh-ins. Hence, he (KVD) can keep the bass and apply it towards his limit, but he is not permanently keeping the fish.

Just speculating here.


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## acklac7

Harbor Hunter said:


> As long as you're not intentionally trying to snag a fish,there's no problem with keeping a fish that's not hooked in the mouth.


Do you live in Russia or something?


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## acklac7

1mecheng said:


> While we think of putting the bass into the live bait well as "keeping it", perhaps the loophole is that all tournament bass are theoretically released back to the water live after the weigh-ins. Hence, he (KVD) can keep the bass and apply it towards his limit, but he is not permanently keeping the fish.
> 
> Just speculating here.


Virtually all 50 states have laws on the books that prohibit "possession" of game fish not hooked in the mouth.


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## donlon88

95 percent of the bass you catch on a "reaction" bait (ie. Crankbait, jerkbait ect.) are not from the fish being hungry but from the fish being ticked off. I can't tell you how many times I have caught bass that where not in the mouth. 

Now if you are going to beds on spawn with hooks and snaging fish then that is against the rules.


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## crittergitter

So, here is what I have learned from this thread:

Bass dont eat lures, people can interpret what a fish is thinking, KVD hooks fish in the back and wins the Bassmasters Classic, he is the greatest fisherman ever. 

Any questions?


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## lordofthepunks

1mecheng said:


> I was doing some additional thinking about the hooked-in-the-back bass caught by KVD. I've got to believe that it was unintentional. I can't imagine an angler with that much media and spectator attention on him intentionally going after fish like that. My original issue was whether or not he (KVD) was legally allowed to keep it. (Either by state rule or tournament rule).
> 
> While we think of putting the bass into the live bait well as "keeping it", perhaps the loophole is that all tournament bass are theoretically released back to the water live after the weigh-ins. Hence, he (KVD) can keep the bass and apply it towards his limit, but he is not permanently keeping the fish.
> 
> Just speculating here.


did you even watch the tournament. kvd probably caught 50 bass during the tournament and we saw him bring one in that was foul hooked. there is zero chance EVER that kvd is trying to cheat.

as for your explanation of "keeping it" maybe your right as these walleye guys look at every catch as an opportunity to fill there cooler. we do not technically keep fish. they are released unharmed


this may be the most ridiculous thread ive read so far. you guys sound like my wife when we are watching football. 

wife-"why did they throw a flag for intentional grounding?"
me- "because honey, he wasnt out of the pocket when he threw it"
wife- "well thats a dumb rule and it shouldnt be a penalty"

a rule is a rule is a rule is a rule.
been like that for a long time, if some idiot started trying to exploit that rule or manipulate it, when he got back to the ramp his truck would be on fire.


----------



## 1mecheng

LOTP -
It was my opinion that KVD was NOT intentionally snagging the fish, due to the reasons I listed.

Acklac7 -
I wonder what the official definition of "possession" is in the eyes of the DNR?


----------



## BFG

> Whenever I'm throwing a lipless crank,or a jerkbait such as a Pointer,it's very common to hook a fish in the back,or the gill plate.A lot of times the way a lure is constructed,it will allow for the front trebles to come out of a fish's mouth,the rear treble then is free to stick into something other than the mouth.As far as tail hooked fish,that's a pretty common occurence when bass fishing also.*Bass have a tendency to swat at a lure with their tail just wanting to stun the bait(bait),with a lure like a lipless crank,this action will result in some tail hooked bass.*As long as you're not intentionally trying to snag a fish,there's no problem with keeping a fish that's not hooked in the mouth.I can't believe I actually read where someone said that the guys were burning their baits through the weeds trying to snag lethargic bass-lol.



They should put that in the Fishing Regulations handbook.


----------



## lordofthepunks

1mecheng said:


> LOTP -
> It was my opinion that KVD was NOT intentionally snagging the fish, due to the reasons I listed.
> 
> Acklac7 -
> I wonder what the official definition of "possession" is in the eyes of the DNR?


i understood what you meant, it just struck me the wrong way. when you say it is NOT your opinion that he was intentionally snagging fish you are kind of implying that it is debatable. its a fact that he was not intentionally snagging fish. no ifs ands or buts.


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## lordofthepunks

BFG said:


> They should put that in the Fishing Regulations handbook.


well, the whole world saw B.A.S.S. snagging and keeping bass, im sure at any moment we are going to read a story where kvd and ike have been fined, stripped of all there gear and black balled in the world of fishing because the handbook doesnt clearly state the difference between people intentionally snagging fish and fish that are foul hooked.

kvd and ike should be nervous that any wildlife managers were watching espn over the weekend. at any moment a swat team may knock down there door and impose fines.


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## BFG

> its a fact that he was not intentionally snagging fish. no ifs ands or buts.


But the fact remains, the presentation that was being employed...pulling a lipless crank with two trebles, in, over, and through the weeds would surely on occasion run into a lethargic fish hiding in the weeds in the 40-some degree cold water. 

While I see your point that they weren't "intentionally" trying to snag fish...watch Ike, Kriet, and KVD fish those baits...when they bump anything that gives them resistance they set the hook. 

Its all said and done now. I was just surprised that KVD and others weighed fish that were caught with the hooks nowhere near the mouth.


----------



## lordofthepunks

crittergitter said:


> So, here is what I have learned from this thread:
> 
> Bass dont eat lures, people can interpret what a fish is thinking, KVD hooks fish in the back and wins the Bassmasters Classic, he is the greatest fisherman ever.
> 
> Any questions?


this is what ive learned so far

people say retarded stuff, 

fisherman that fish for food dont get tournament fishing and may never get it

kvd is the greatest fisherman ever and one foul hooked fish doesnt take away from the 5 ANGLER OF THE YEAR TROPHIES and 3 BASSMASTER CLASSIC TROPHIES 

if the guy fished for walleye, he would be the greatest walleye fisherman ever
if he fished for musky he would be the greatest musky fisherman ever
if he fished for carp....
if he fished for tarpon...
if he fished for shovelheads....

if he kayaked around central ohio creeks for whatever was biting then he would be the best at that too.


----------



## lordofthepunks

BFG said:


> But the fact remains, the presentation that was being employed...pulling a lipless crank with two trebles, in, over, and through the weeds would surely on occasion run into a lethargic fish hiding in the weeds in the 40-some degree cold water.
> 
> While I see your point that they weren't "intentionally" trying to snag fish...watch Ike, Kriet, and KVD fish those baits...when they bump anything that gives them resistance they set the hook.
> 
> Its all said and done now. I was just surprised that KVD and others weighed fish that were caught with the hooks nowhere near the mouth.


nearly every technique used while bass fishing will occasionally foul hook a fish, it happens. i caught a fish last season while dragging a texas rigged plastic through some rocks that was hooked in the back. 

the reason they weighed in those fish is because the rules are clearly stated in b.a.s.s., if it were otherwise then they wouldnt have, it wasnt a judgement call on the angler, its what the rules state.


----------



## BFG

> the reason they weighed in those fish is because the rules are clearly stated in b.a.s.s., if it were otherwise then they wouldnt have, it wasnt a judgement call on the angler, its what the rules state.


Do the B.A.S.S. rules supercede the laws and regulations of the State in which they are holding their tournaments? 

My wife doesn't like to watch fishing on television, but having heard me tell endless stories regarding guys getting tickets for snagging walleyes and keeping them in the Maumee...she said this to me the other night as we were watching the Classic together...

"Um...I thought you always told me that fish had to be caught in the mouth in order to keep them?"

Yes...they do honey. 

"Well...he caught that one by the back...."

Yep..he did...maybe he'll throw it back...

"Wow...guess not..."


Now I am sure that KVD and Ike and others are not concerned in the least bit about a DNR officer coming to their house and causing a ruckus. The fish were returned seemingly un-harmed to their environment after the tourney. As a result...I have no complaint there...but the ethical disaster that was keeping that last fish by KVD needs to be pointed out. 

He might not have been _trying_ to snag that fish but he did snag it..and should have tossed it back. The State laws clearly point out that snagging fish is illegal, and snagging is defined as being hooked at any place other than the mouth. 

Justify it all you want, but just because it has always been allowed and accepted doesn't make it right.


----------



## Walter Adkins

Cabin fever is hitting strong. Some of you need to take your rod out side and practice casting at snowballs. I will head back out for some more trout and hopefully by this weekend I will be wading for smallies. Rivers are melting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No cabin fever here.


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## Harbor Hunter

I'm sure that B.A.S.S. considers a snagged fish as in intentionally snagged,not one that bit and had the front hooks come out and the rear hooks lodge in a part of the fish other than in the mouth,such as every fish I seen caught in the classic.As far as bass swiping at lures with their tails,I see it all the time,ever fish for bass on their beds? It is very common to see them swipe at a bait with their tails,rather than to grab it with their mouth.The ones that are having a problem with this ruling,obviously have never fished in larger circuits,this has been a ruleing for years.As far as state laws go,the only one I can reference regarding foul-hooking by accident is California.A couple of years ago,a guy caught what would've been the new world record largemouth.The guy ended up turning the fish loose after he had seen the fish was hooked in the back.The fish apparently had hit his bait and during the fight the hook(s)became dislodged from the fish's mouth and got stuck in it's back.There were many stories on this,and nearly everyone agreed that since the guy was fishing legally,and not intentionally snagging,the catch should have been kept and turned in for the record.The really sad thing about this story was that it was reported somebody found the fish dead on the shore a few days later,should be on the dude's wall.I know you're all still looking at KVD's last fish and saying it wasn't even close to the mouth.I can remember a few times out wading in a creek throwing roostertails for smallies where for whatever reason I would get a good hit,and when I would reel the bass into view,the spinner would be wrapped around a couple of feet of line around the bass' mid-section,don't know how that happens,but it does.If I'm fishing in a legal manner,and I get what I know is a hit,and during the fight the hook pops out and hooks another part of the fish,I consider that a legal catch,and so does the 2 major bass circuits.


----------



## Harbor Hunter

Here are the rules straight from BASS regarding this matter.
All bass must be caught live and in a conventional sporting matter.Anyone guilty of snatching or snagging VISIBLE fish will have their catch disqualified.When "visually fishing a bed or for bedding bass",to be counted as a legal fish,all bass must be hooked inside the mouth,and must be verified by your partner before being unhooked.
You can read the rules a hundred times,and you still won't find where anyone,including KVD,broke any rules.Also remember according to BASS rules,not only does a contestant have to adhere by the rules of BASS,he also has to adhere to the rules of the state where the tournament is being held.Obviously,Alabama has no objections,why do any of you?


----------



## Nipididdee

> Here are the rules straight from BASS regarding this matter.
> All bass must be caught live and in a conventional sporting matter.Anyone guilty of snatching or snagging VISIBLE fish will have their catch disqualified.When "visually fishing a bed or for bedding bass",to be counted as a legal fish,all bass must be hooked inside the mouth,and must be verified by your partner before being unhooked.
> You can read the rules a hundred times,and you still won't find where anyone,including KVD,broke any rules.Also remember according to BASS rules,not only does a contestant have to adhere by the rules of BASS,he also has to adhere to the rules of the state where the tournament is being held.Obviously,Alabama has no objections,why do any of you?


B-I-N-G-O! 

If he was in the maumee catching a stinkin' walleye he would have a problem 

I pray every night, and some days, that I have no major issues or rule violations at any of our events...I have added to this prayer that no stray walleye anglers register in 2010 

nip


----------



## blue dolphin

This is not a walleye or bass thing even though for whatever reason Franks wants to make it that lol JK. I for one dont know alabama laws and I thought until now that I knew Ohio laws. So not to put my foot in my mouth and to help out this matter. I have asked Travis Hartman to get one of his people he knows from the Division of wildlife to come on here and please interpet the Rule of what snagging is considered on ohio waters whether its a bass or a walleye. Honestly i was under the impression that if you catch a fish and the hook is not in his mouth whether Jigging trolling cranking or what ever type of Sportsman like manner you want to call it. That it is considered snagged or foul hooked and must be returned immediatley. Im looking foward to what they have to say. Gary


----------



## Nipididdee

The intellectual mind of a sun beatin' worm draggn' trolln' ZART! 

It is a walleye thing as youn's personality is always so driven like that of the planet Venus- pun intended.

This has zippo to do with Ohio- absolutely stinking nothing to do with walleye-and everything to do with keeping your rods in those holder thingies 

Oh how I pitty the directors of your events...

*The Classic was a B.A.S.S. black bass fishing event in ALABAMA*


----------



## crittergitter

I checked the State of Alabama fishing regulations. Only the Tennesee river drainage resevoirs have a provision that states:

"Any fish hooked other than in the mouth or head must immediately be returned to the water from where it came with the least possible harm."

So, if the lake they were fishing was not part of that river basin then I guess they are allowed to possess them. There was mention in there though that snagged fish can not be "kept", so I guess the release of the fish after the tourney makes this technically "legal". 

One final note for LOTP. My previous post was in jest which is why it had one of these ---------------------->


----------



## lordofthepunks

BFG said:


> He might not have been _trying_ to snag that fish but he did snag it..and should have tossed it back. The State laws clearly point out that snagging fish is illegal, and snagging is defined as being hooked at any place other than the mouth.
> 
> Justify it all you want, but just because it has always been allowed and accepted doesn't make it right.


why should he have turned the fish back if the rule clearly states that an unintentionaly foul hooked fish can be weighed in.

these laws are meant to keep people from catching fish in an unsportsmanlike manner and putting them in a bucket to later be dinner like they do at the maumee river and deercreek spillway. 

they arent meant to keep kvd from weighing in a keeper and then releasing it

if a person cant see the difference in keeping a fish that you snagged on purpose just so you can kill it and keeping a fish in a livewell for a few hours that got hooked in the gill plate by accident and then weighing it at the end of the day and THEN releasing it.....then i cant help you

at some point judgment has to be used, not everything is in a manual


----------



## blue dolphin

Nipididdee said:


> The intellectual mind of a sun beatin' worm draggn' trolln' ZART!
> 
> It is a walleye thing as youn's personality is always so driven like that of the planet Venus- pun intended.
> 
> This has zippo to do with Ohio- absolutely stinking nothing to do with walleye-and everything to do with keeping your rods in those holder thingies
> 
> Oh how I pitty the directors of your events...
> 
> *The Classic was a B.A.S.S. black bass fishing event in ALABAMA*


Im not debating Alabama hence my opening sentence. Please dont read what you want to read. Read my whole statement. Im curious for Ohio hence why I said Ohio and my interpetation of what i thought ohio rule and laws are. You sure have taken things personal over the last year. But I looking foward to what a state rep has to say. Oh how i pitty you if your intereptation is wrong since you have been on here slamming other peoples interpetations!


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## lordofthepunks

crittergitter said:


> I checked the State of Alabama fishing regulations. Only the Tennesee river drainage resevoirs have a provision that states:
> 
> "Any fish hooked other than in the mouth or head must immediately be returned to the water from where it came with the least possible harm."
> 
> So, if the lake they were fishing was not part of that river basin then I guess they are allowed to possess them. There was mention in there though that snagged fish can not be "kept", so I guess the release of the fish after the tourney makes this technically "legal".
> 
> One final note for LOTP. My previous post was in jest which is why it had one of these ---------------------->


i apologise i get so frustrated sometimes when im reading this stuff and the sarcasm gets lost on me at times. my bad


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## Nipididdee

Mars and Venus...Bass and Walleye !%



> An example of the theories it offers is that women complain about problems because they want their problems to be acknowledged, while men complain about problems because they are asking for solutions. Other concepts are the difference between women and men's point systems and how they react under stress


Ok goofy- when you see one of these  or this  it's called an emotiocon

...it is meant to reference an emotion, as to avoid your flaming, and make the reader aware there is a sense of humor added to the one lined internet prose that otherwise could be interpreted.

Anyone can see via any posts in the thread I am not interpreting Ohio law, nor walleye regs, nor slamming anyone, especially you dingdong! I love you Zartman- you are all about positive energy!

There has been interjection in this thread of what this is not,especially from those not familiar with bass, with comments suggesting bass anglers are above law...

*What it was - A bass fishing tournament under BASS rules in the state of Alabama.*

read the entire thread- start a new one for other topics- and you can apologize to me Saturday 

You better take my call on the Sunday morning radio show


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## fishslim

Hey nipideedooda!! I WOULD BASS FISH BEFORE I WOULD TROLL THATS HOW MUCH I HATE TROLLING!!!  Got the wrong saugeye guy here i used to bass fish just got bored with it,still love to get smallies in the rivers and lakes. But trolling not my ballgame!! As for you tourney guys have at it i do not care i was was just asking if bass gods were over state laws you have proven that no matter what the law state you are above all except the ones you provide for that tourney. So have fun sharpen them bass swatting hooks and hookem any way you can,as for me i will throw them back when i don't see a hook in the mouth. And that is all that counts to each person choice is yours. KVD is highly respected fishermen in my book have always said he is half fish so do not think i am picking on the bass guru. Critter did you see all my  do you think they will understand i am asking and having fun? So all please lighten up it was just a question.D


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## jpbasspro

As for the Classic, its over. Do you really think these guys fishing haven't run into this topic before? If this were a legit issue I'm sure it was discussed prior to the tournament in their meeting where many times state and federal wildlife law enforcement personnel are present to answer any questions and clarify state regulations! If not then I'm sure one of these anglers should have or would have filed a formal protest and they only have a certain amount of time to do so. Your beating a dead horse, this is not a Tuesday night pot tournament! 
To add, I highly doubt anyone will be able to get someone from ODW law enforcement to jump in this forum, but good luck.


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## lordofthepunks

fishslim said:


> ,as for me i will throw them back when i don't see a hook in the mouth.


i throw all of them back, sometimes its just a few hours later, after the weigh in


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## blue dolphin

Nipididdee said:


> Mars and Venus...Bass and Walleye !%
> 
> 
> 
> Ok goofy- when you see one of these  or this  it's called an emotiocon
> 
> ...it is meant to reference an emotion, as to avoid your flaming, and make the reader aware there is a sense of humor added to the one lined internet prose that otherwise could be interpreted.
> 
> Anyone can see via any posts in the thread I am not interpreting Ohio law, nor walleye regs, nor slamming anyone, especially you dingdong! I love you Zartman- you are all about positive energy!
> 
> There has been interjection in this thread of what this is not,especially from those not familiar with bass, with comments suggesting bass anglers are above law...
> 
> *What it was - A bass fishing tournament under BASS rules in the state of Alabama.*
> 
> read the entire thread- start a new one for other topics- and you can apologize to me Saturday
> 
> You better take my call on the Sunday morning radio show


You had me worried there for a moment i thought you were hating me. Im glad everything is ok. It kinda like text messaging it sometimes get taken out of text. If you know what i mean. Ill be next to you all weekend buddy with the open house. I just talk to travis a little while ago and he said hell work on it tomorrow as far as getting someone on here to clear up any grey are for ohio law. The only reason why i brought it up on here is that people were bringing up the Maumee etc and i thought they were comparing. Hey i love fishing in general ive bassed fish my whole life with my bro and now with my bro and my son. Im not as serious as you guys but we all need to stick together on all this politcal stuff. Its all about fishing whether its bass or walleye or steelhead you get my drift. As a walleye tourney guy the KVD thing is amazing to me. AS much as i look at him and wonder how. I can only chaulk it up to he was the chosen one. Its amazing to watch and i sometimes find myself shaking my head in disbelief. At least Nicholas and i 
get to watch it in our lifetime. Really cool stuff. I would like to see someone come up and challenge him in a tourney basis. But only time will tell if that will happen> Gary


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## mikeshookset

this thread has made for some interesting reading. its obviouse that no rule was broken and that no laws was brokin, with that being the biggest tournament in the area and the national attention given to it i would think that if laws was broken that the division of wildlife would have given out sitations wich didnt happen. with that being said i do think that the rules could use some adjustment in a effort to better portray the anglers . its obviouse that it dont look good when fish hooked in the back or tail is wieghed in that it dont look good to quite a few people. i am sure bass has got a ear full on this situation already as most tournament directers would testafie to that when something goes wrong we hear about it very soon after the tournament to the point that there will be messages on the answering machine before we even get home.


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## Nipididdee

You'd better strap some on bluedolphin- I intend to convert you per*man*ently 
:woot:

KVD the top of the game, the most prolific fishing event annually, seen by millions unfamiliar to the sport... some even tried to compare him as the Tiger Woods of fishing.

KVD's comments to that- 


> There's a bunch of dang good people in our sport. We don't have all these issues and controversies. That's why I definitely don't like the Tiger Woods analogy. (Problems like that) are surely never going to happen to me. But you don't hear about that (in our sport). Outdoorsmen and fishermen are good people and we're passionate about what we do


Bass anglers know Ohio laws- that's the important part missed with this continuation. Ohio bass anglers who place themselves above the law,for any reasons, find themselves DQ'd/penalized- they go by the wayside eventually-most with that personality stay away from our events.

Alabama law permitted the catches. BASS rules permitted the catches.

There is no controvesy, politics, nothing...other than it is important to leave non-traditional bass anglers with the similar impressions KVD left the public with.

He's no Tiger Woods...he's better.


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## blue dolphin

It looks like people have already identified the fact that in this
specific case Alabama laws and BASS rules applied to the Classic.



Of course in a Lake Erie tourney Ohio laws would apply regardless of
what BASS allows. I talked to the Lake Erie law enforcement supervisor.
The Ohio law is simple. If the fish does not have at least one hook in
the mouth the fish is illegal and must be immediately returned to the
water. Even further, it doesn't matter if it's hooked around the
outside of the mouth, or near the mouth, the hook has to be in the
mouth. If you close the fish's mouth and CAN'T see the point where the
hook penetrated the mouth (because the point that the hook entered the
fish is inside the mouth) then it is a legal catch. If you close the
fish's mouth and you CAN see the point that the hook entered the fish,
then it's snagged. Even a hook that entered through the top of the nose
(for example, a hook goes down through the nose into the mouth leaving
the hook and barb in the mouth cavity, but with the entry point being
outside of the mouth through the nose area), would be an illegal catch.
The bottom line is that at least one barb on one hook has to have hooked
the fish inside the mouth.



How the law is enforced comes down to how well an officer saw the
incident and how confident he or she is that the hook was in the mouth.
If an officer is confident that he or she saw a snagged fish with no
hooks inside the mouth then he or she is going to write a ticket.



Feel free to post the above text in the thread. I am not going to log
in at work.



Take care,



Travis



Travis Hartman

Fisheries Biologist

Ohio Department of Natural Resources

Division of Wildlife



Sandusky Fish Research Unit

305 E. Shoreline Dr.
Sandusky, Ohio 44870



Phone: 419-625-8062

Fax: 419-625-6272

<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]









Attachments: 

untitled-[2] 8.1 k [ text/html ] Download | View 




Ok guys here it is Bass and walleye alike. This is the rule for Ohio. To anyone fishing anyway this is the law. So there should be no grey area. For any tourney director Walleye or Bass in Ohio hopefully your rule mimics this one. By the way this wasnt to stirr the pot. It was just to clarify any speculation or interpetation of the rule for Ohio. Thanks Travis for taking the time to do this. It should clarify everything that has been debated on Ohio law for the definition on snagging in Ohio waters whether intentional or Sportsman like. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## BFG

> if a person cant see the difference in keeping a fish that you snagged on purpose just so you can kill it and keeping a fish in a livewell for a few hours that got hooked in the gill plate by accident and then weighing it at the end of the day and THEN releasing it.....then i cant help you


If it was hooked in the gill plate, I would've believed what rationalizations so many of you have given. It was hooked in the back, and I refuse to believe that fish remotely even thought about attacking that bait. 

Regardlless, I guess it is then ok to snag fish in the back..keep them alive in a live well for a few hours, weigh them in, then win money as a result...then return them to the water? This would be my problem with this entire scenario. 

I just wish someone could find the footage of Ike ducking and running to the front of his boat hiding that belly/tail hooked fish out of view for the camera. 

Well, so be it. I've read the laws from the State of Alabama regarding the Tennessee River and it clearly says that fish caught anywhere other than in the mouth must immediately be returned to the water. I guess the BASS rules supercede this law based on the fact that the fish are going to be returned to the lake. (but along the way a guy who catches all of his fish legally gets beat by a guy who weighs a fish that he snagged).

Nope...I see nothing wrong with that at all. Seems fair and square to me.


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## Bassguy59

For what its worth Lay Lake is part of the Coosa River chain not the tennessee river so that reg does not apply to the Classic


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## jpbasspro

BFG said:


> I just wish someone could find the footage of Ike ducking and running to the front of his boat hiding that belly/tail hooked fish out of view for the camera.


I really don't think Ike was running to hide that fish. It appeared that when he landed it he snagged his outerwear. He is a wild man as it is! Also, with all the other fishing pressure the area was recieving he may have wanted to keep quiet, he was quiet the entire tournament for the most part which is unlike him.


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## Nipididdee

> Bass anglers know Ohio laws- that's the important part missed with this continuation. Ohio bass anglers who place themselves above the law,for any reasons, find themselves DQ'd/penalized- they go by the wayside eventually-most with that personality stay away from our events.
> 
> Alabama law permitted the catches. BASS rules permitted the catches.


BFG open seat for the lado summer hump crankn' bustn' action- you'll never fish for anything else again but a bass :bulgy-eyes:

and you'll come to understand what everyone has attempted to enlighten you about their behaviors...shoot... you might even smile afterwards 

SMILE! Remove your enemies and think bigbass...

www.dobass.com


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## Harbor Hunter

That's exactly what we've all been preaching to you,the event was held in Alabama,not Ohio.For anyone that has never fished a larger circuit,we have a pre-tournament meeting before the main event.During this meeting,the tournament director goes over all of the rules regarding tournament boundaries,state laws for the state we're fishing,starting and ending times,and so on.Again,as far as someone's view of where KVD's last bass was hooked,if it was a legal catch by BASS rules,and a legal catch by the state of Alabama rules,then why in the world would KVD throw it back,especially with $500,000 riding on it?


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## BFG

> I really don't think Ike was running to hide that fish. It appeared that when he landed it he snagged his outerwear. He is a wild man as it is! Also, with all the other fishing pressure the area was recieving he may have wanted to keep quiet, he was quiet the entire tournament for the most part which is unlike him.


C'mon....do you sell beachfront property in Arizona too?

BWAHAHAHAAAA....


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## BFG

Ok...I can't wait to hear the rationalization that will follow once you all read this......

*220-2-.115 Snagging or Snatching Fish on the Tennessee River
It shall be unlawful to take fish on the Tennessee River or its
impoundments by pulling a single hook or group of hooks through the water
53
(snagging or snatching), provided said hooks may be so used with bait and/or
lures to entice fish to strike or bite such bait or lure. It shall further be
unlawful to catch a fish on the Tennessee River or its impoundments by
hooking the fish in any place other than the mouth or head. Any fish hooked
other than in the mouth or head must immediately be returned to the water
from where it came with the least possible harm.*


I also need to mention that I also find it hilarious that you can't snag fish while sight fishing, but muddy up the water a bit so you can't see 'em and you aren't trying to snag them at all, irregardless of your double treble hooked lipless crank! LOL 

BWAHAHAAAA....BASS FISHERMAN!!!!!!!! 

It's ok...seriously. I used to really like Tiger Woods too, so I know what it is like to have someone/something that you really like blown up in your face.

And Nippiddidededeeee... 

Thanks for the invite bro! Any chance we could use some plow-jockeys and hula poppers instead of crankbaits?


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## DaleM

This thread has become something that should be in the comedy section. 
Nothing was done wrong period! KVD is one of the most honest guys you'll ever meet. 
No matter what Ohio laws say it doesn't mean squat in Alabama, or any other State, outside of Ohio.
These guys are watched all the time and as you saw are being recorded 99% of the time. How could they cheat? If they did BASS officials would know it before they came to weigh in. 
I doubt anyone can say they have never caught or kept a foul hooked fish.
I'm not talking about tournaments, I'm talking about fishing in general. I have and will admit it. It wasn't my intention to do it, it just happens. If it's a legal catch in a tournament then there isn't a problem. If they try to hide it, or it is illegal then it is a problem. That wasn't the case at the Classic. 

I'll be glad when the weather get nice enough to get out. I know the boards on here will be a much happier place when that happens. Cabin fever is a real illness They have a cure for it now--- It's called soft water and warm temps.


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## swantucky

This has been very entertaining to read!!

I guess I understand that KVD's fish was within the B.A.S.S. rules and within the legal rules in Alabama. Not sure how ethical I think it is....that is not a knock on KVD, he followed the rules plain and simple. Just seems like a strange rule to me. You can snag fish if it was not on purpose? How the heck could a warden possibly know if some did something on purpose?? Seems it would be tough to prove what someone's "intent" was.

The reason I have entered this discussion is not to continue the bass vs. walleye fisherman crap. I fish for both but spend far more time on walleye. I have brought in alot of bass that were hooked outside the mouth that you "know" hit the lure. I am just confused as to how the rules are applied in OHIO. Obviously the rules are in the fishing regulations and B.D. posted what Travis had to say on the issue. I think that is what BFG is trying to say.

The bass fisherman here say that is just how it is in tourneys, fine. What may be considered a "legal" fish on the tourney trail would certainly get you a ticket on the Maumee river. You hear stories every year about guys getting a ticket for keeping a fish hooked in the mouth from the outside in. I myself have never seen it but I would assume it happens as much as you hear about it.


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## Harbor Hunter

I think one thing that made the classic look bad to some guys that don't fish bass real hard was the presentations being applied.I've read a couple of the posts that have said the pros were ripping and jerking the baits(somewhat like a snagging motion).The guys were throwing lipless cranks(not weighted trebles as some have implied),the way you fish these,especially in colder water,is to cast out and let it drop to you're just ticking the top of the weeds.You want to keep the lure just above,and even into the weeds just a bit.When you fish the bait like that,you're going to foul up in the weeds a lot,so you need to rip the lure to free it from the weeds,a lot of times,this is when the fish will hit it,right after you rip it through.To imply that any of them would be trying to snag a fish is ridiculous.You couldn't do that even if you tried.Go out to any lake,find a good weed bed and try ripping a lure through it and see what happens.Through extensive research and practice time KVD,and others knew there was fish in that area,and they caught them,I give them credit,the conditions were terrible.


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## Nipididdee

I hate when threads get hijacked...

Venus is rotating pulling Mars closer and closer.

Not one bass fisherperson has suggested "this is just how it is in tourneys"

Quite the opposite:


> Bass anglers know Ohio laws- that's the important part missed with this continuation. Ohio bass anglers who place themselves above the law,for any reasons, find themselves DQ'd/penalized- they go by the wayside eventually-most with that personality stay away from our events.


We all have tried to simply share experiences of similar bass behavior that non-bassn' folks can understand with their behaviors.

BFG- I have a better idea than a hula popper. You are allowed 3 sets of #2 trebles weighted against me and my crankbait...I'll take your dollars and then charge you $25 for a crankbait mid day  

MODS: How about new OGF tournament forums... species specific?


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## crittergitter

swantucky said:


> The bass fisherman here say that is just how it is in tourneys, fine. What may be considered a "legal" fish on the tourney trail would certainly get you a ticket on the Maumee river. *You hear stories every year about guys getting a ticket for keeping a fish hooked in the mouth from the outside in*. I myself have never seen it but I would assume it happens as much as you hear about it.


I say that is BS. It's a built-in excuse that the cheats use to try to save face since they almost always want to keep fishing. They didn't make the trip there to just turn around and go home. 

I can appreciate both sides of the argument in this thread. We Ohio fisherman are used to the rule and law here so when we see a guy make $500k in a tourney doing what we would get a ticket for......it just doesnt sit well with us. However, if I were KVD in that location and hooked a bass the same way he did............it would go in my livewell. It does also seem odd that they regulate "intent". I believe that is a B.A.S.S. rule and not an Alambama rule.


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## Harbor Hunter

Nipididdee said:


> I hate when threads get hijacked...
> 
> Venus is rotating pulling Mars closer and closer.
> 
> Not one bass fisherperson has suggested "this is just how it is in tourneys"
> 
> Quite the opposite:
> 
> 
> We all have tried to simply share experiences of similar bass behavior that non-bassn' folks can understand with their behaviors.
> 
> BFG- I have a better idea than a hula popper. You are allowed 3 sets of #2 trebles weighted against me and my crankbait...I'll take your dollars and then charge you $25 for a crankbait mid day
> 
> MODS: How about new OGF tournament forums... species specific?


 Agreed,some people get a thought in their head and it can't be changed.The whole point I've been trying to make is don't confuse yourself with the law in one state versus another,these guys all know what ALL the laws are on any body of water,in any state they're fishing.Here's the easiest way to put it that hopefully everybody will understand.These pros all have big dollar sponsors(in some cases like KVD and Ike,millions),do you really think they would risk those sponsorships knowing full well their every move is being filmed,by doing something illegal? Don't forget that not only are they being filmed,but there's a marshall sitting right in each and everyone of their boats who's sole purpose is to report on any wrongdoings.None of them did anything illegal,or unethical,if any one of you were in the position to win half a million,I just know you would throw a fish back that wasn't hooked in the mouth.


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## swantucky

crittergitter said:


> I say that is BS. It's a built-in excuse that the cheats use to try to save face since they almost always want to keep fishing. They didn't make the trip there to just turn around and go home.
> 
> I can appreciate both sides of the argument in this thread. We Ohio fisherman are used to the rule and law here so when we see a guy make $500k in a tourney doing what we would get a ticket for......it just doesnt sit well with us. However, if I were KVD in that location and hooked a bass the same way he did............it would go in my livewell. It does also seem odd that they regulate "intent". I believe that is a B.A.S.S. rule and not an Alambama rule.


Heck yes it would go in the livewell!!

I agree the outside in tickets are probably b.s., its just you hear it often enough that it makes me wonder. I have been told by the C.O. that he has never heard of someone getting a ticket for that but said he guessed it could happen.


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## blue dolphin

Im not going to mention names thats not my thing especially on a open forum. This thread was once talking about Just KVD and Ike. It then turned into by some of ripping walleye guys for not knowing what they were talking about and that if your site fishing or if your not intentionally snagging or if your going to let it go in a couple hours then it was alright. Now dont sit there and tell me that i was taking this out of context. The ones that made the comments and you know who you are were referring to what YOU do in ohio because in the same post YOU were referring to us guys on the Maumee River. This is why i got on this thread. The Question here is not what KVD or Ike did they were ok according to Alabama law I think. The Question is now why were walleye guys criticized for what they said about the laws in ohio and what snagging is considered. 
From what I found out from Travis and posted is what gospel is. Its funny how when i posted this the silence was deafening. The BOTTOM LINE IS if you snag a fish outside the mouth in OHIO it is a illegal fish and must be returned immediatley. I dont care if your not sight fishing You werent trying to. Your going to let it go in a couple hours after you collect your Check. Whatever. Your wrong. So i guess the ones in question have some soul searching to do from now on And i guess the walleye guys that were on here do know a thing or two about Ohio Law. Good luck. Your going to need it. BD


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## DaleM

Enough of the walleye guy vs bass guy vs walleye guy. You should and better know the laws when it comes to fishing. You break the law you will pay.
This has been discussed enough and has gotten way off the original topic. Time to move on now.

Good luck to all you Tournament guys this year. It won't be long now guys.


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