# Spin Casters On The Mad



## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

I don't mean to be a grump, but is anyone else getting tired of all the spin guys on the mad taking all the trout with worms. Or is it just me noticing that everytime that I am there I at least see a group of 3 or more pulling them out left and right and not putting them back, legal or not. Makes it a little tuff for us fly fisherman here in Ohio. Especially when we are so trout stream poor in this state. Just wondering.


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## luredaddy (May 25, 2004)

Well, if they are legal, I hope they like them smoked. I was an AVID flyfisher in Pennsylvania for 20 years. I caught a 6 lb native Brown in a 10' wide stream on a crawler, the last trout I caught on bait. I vowed to get to the point where I could outfish the worm guys, using flies, especially in muddy water. It took a couple years, but black Wooly Buggers in the mud, were the answer. The worm guys feel cheated when a Caddis hatch is coming off, and you catch 20 fish in an hour, sooo , just get better! It would be nice if they put them back, but if they are legal, I hope they use them wisely.


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## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

just a little aggrivated. I see them pull quite a few nice trout, more than any fly fisherman will in a day. I just think that they are hurting the best, and one of the only fisheries in the state. Don't get me wrong. I know they have just as much right to be there as I do. It's just that they seem to be extremely greedy. Not to mention they are killing some of my favorite spots, or better, cleaning them out. Its not like the rivers out west, where we have 5 to 10 thousand trout per mile. U know?


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

...............................................


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

hate to say it guys, but posting your catches on here doesnt help any. especially when directions to spots are given.


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## Teeray (Apr 11, 2004)

I agree with that, but I doubt if the hilljacks and illegal immigrants that are poaching in our rivers are spending too much time checking out this website for fishing locations.


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## gulfvet (Apr 14, 2004)

Folks who have to resort to bait aren't usually the more studious types, either! If you study the sport, you start seeing it as a mental contest and you consider bait cheating. At least that's the way it was for me and all the folks I fish with. I had come to consider bait as cheating for anything but cats and carp by the time I was 9 years old!


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## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

If you floated the mad and stopped to fish a section, what are the chances you would get into trouble for being on private land? Because frankly, I am beginning to think that is the only way to have a good day on the Mad anymore without having bait fisherman tromp all the water ahead of you and behind you. The last time that I was there I saw 3 guys and a kid cross the stream where it was extremely swift, the whole time I thought this young kid was going to get swept away. He would have if it weren't for his dad, but he wasn't really helping him that much. To make a long story short, the boy had no business being in that kind of swift water. I am a 200 lb man and that would have been a hard place for me to cross, let alone a child at the age of 10. These guys just don't have no sense. That and the immigrants setting up camp at a whole. Literally, with a fire. Am I Venting?


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## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

I mean set up camp at a hole. And I have seen it.


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## flytyer (Jan 3, 2005)

Jamie, It's like steelheader007 said it is a put and take fisherie! Unfortanately the trout will never reproduce enough to make it any other way. 
I know it's aggrivating but the state will probably never make a catch and release section or a flies only section on the Mad because we are a poor state as far as exceptable waters for trout to live in year round, and they are trying to keep all fisherman and women happy ( an impossible job )!!! 
All I can tell you is to get the # Of the game warden and give him a call if you see someone doing something illegal. You are only allowed 2 trout over 12" on the Mad. The Champaigne County game warden is a good guy and does his best at watching the Mad.
I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but unfortinately that's the way people are!
I Fly fish on the Mad myself and have for awhile. If you want to send me a private message on here I'll give some more imfo.


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## Baitkiller (Sep 1, 2004)

Guys 

Would not it be nice if one could go fishing and bring home dinner  ??

I C&R MOST ALL the Flatheads, Bass etc. but IF the State would keep more of our money we give from our permits things could be better. They do a decent job on the Steelies from what I can tell and its GREAT that we have them NOW. 

I'm all for much more better habitat and alot more stocking. If You want a Fly only area I hope they make one for us. 


<><Baitkiller><>


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

Well, boys, my screen name will betray me, so I might as well confess: I'm just a dumb, old spin fisherman. And I'm a little annoyed myself.

1) It's been more than twenty years since I used live bait.
[/color] 
2) I haven't kept a fish of any species for almost 30 years.

3) I don't think that makes me special.

4) The last time I waded the Mad, I encountered a man outfitted to the nines in fly gear who proudly showed me his pretty little dead Brown Trout.

If you can't catch a trout, why must you insist on blaming someone else? Your lack of skill is more likely the reason your creel is empty. (Oops, I forgot you guys don't use creels anymore.)

Frankly, I'm tired of enduring the hoards of so-called fly fishermen throwing hooks into brush and trees and tromping up and down the stream like it's a track meet while I'm quietly trying to fish an area that looks as if it might hold a fish or two. I think a fly-only area is the best idea I've heard. Just let me know where it is so I can go somewhere else. I'm reasonably sure you'll chase the trout to me.

Incidentally, I wouldn't characterize myself as being particularly studious, but while I was reading this thread, this question occurred to me: Why can't fly fishermen spell?

You see, it's not too difficult to ridicule an entire group of people and place them all into whatever neat little pigeon-hole that suits you. Even a hilljack like me can do it.


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## Slabs! (Oct 1, 2005)

Spinfisher you hit it right on the nose. I dabble a bit in both spin/fly fishing, and what I've found is that it is definitely individuals who have these faults listed by all of the above posts. Everyone needs to make sure they are doing their part for everyones enjoyment and stop all the fingerpointing. There's enough fish and enough water for everyone, so people need to stop crowding. If you arrive to your honeyhole and someone is already there, be courteous and ask if they mind if you fish through. I would say I have rarely been turned down, and when I have I didn't mind. Respect is key! You never know when being polite will pay off. I've been given a lot of help, advice, tips from people that I approached in a respectful manner during an irregular bite


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

..lol... thanks for the laugh.... Wheew !!

ps as far as the spelling goes I know I s u c k at it, and I'm to lazy to care "not saying you where talking about me, but I thought I would just clarify" As long at the ppl get my intent I really dont care! .. .lol .. 

Night all ... Spring here yet!


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## gstrick27 (Apr 14, 2004)

just wait till the weather gets warm and then we can all have a common enemy, the dreaded float tubers!!!! nothing like having them go sliding by dropping beer cans and tangleing their cooler tube around my legs or line. talk about frustrating!! and look at it this way, if the section you fish is crowded move on and explore some, you might just happen into a few big ones. and who doesnt like the pull of a fish over 15 inches on the old fly rod?


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## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

All that I'm saying is that for the most part, in my experience, on the Mad. The spin fisherman are very rude and know no stream etiquett at all. Don't mean to offend you spinfisher.


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## flytyer (Jan 3, 2005)

I am sorry if I made someone mad , that is not what I was trying to do! Only trying to make a point, that the river is there for all of us to enjoy and if you see someone doing something illegal turn them in. 
I wasn't trying to pick on anyone who fishes legal!! And the thing about the flies only area, like I said it probably will never happen, again not trying to pi__ off anyone! Oh yea and if my spelling is that bad how did you read my post????


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

gstrick27 said:


> just wait till the weather gets warm and then we can all have a common enemy, the dreaded float tubers!!!! nothing like having them go sliding by dropping beer cans and tangleing their cooler tube around my legs or line. talk about frustrating!! and look at it this way, if the section you fish is crowded move on and explore some, you might just happen into a few big ones. and who doesnt like the pull of a fish over 15 inches on the old fly rod?


.... but I do hate it when it happened to me when I did not know any better! I only hit the mad when the days high is below 55, and it pretty much takes care of those problems.. (but I must say I dont have the motivation to fish the Mad anymore even though I have only fished her a hand full of times)


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

If my post gave the impression that I was either offended or angry, I guess I was trying too hard to be funny and I didn't make my point clearly. My comment about spelling was intended as a joke to show how silly it is to make a blanket statement about any group of people as a whole.
[/color] 
As Slabs pointed out, the taking of illegal fish and the lack of stream etiquette (and poor spelling, too) are behaviors exhibited by individuals--not by groups. Some spin fishermen are rude; not many in my experience. Some fly fishermen take illegal fish; not many, because apparently they don't catch many fish.  (Okay, sorry, I think that's funny. )

Here's the point without any whimsy or humor attached: Anytime someone points an accusing finger or assigns a behavior to an entire group or class of people, I will call that person out because it is wrong. It won't necessarily mean that I'm offended or angry, but if I let it slide, I will have no defense when someone takes a look on here and says, "Those guys over on OGF are a bunch of bigots."

Anytime you don't like something I say, you have every right to disagree, and you may be correct. But you have no right to say that all white-haired guys are jackasses just because I am. 

I know it's rather beside the point but...



> All that I'm saying is that for the most part, in my experience, on the Mad. The spin fisherman are very rude and know no stream etiquett at all.


Jamie, you never once mentioned etiquette earlier in this thread. I believe your original point was that spin fishermen were catching all the fish and cleaning out your favorite hole. There was a post about etiquette, but I wrote it--and, for the record, my characterization of fly fishermen as a group of bumbling, stumbling idiots was a joke. If that wasn't clear before, maybe I'm losing my touch. It was a joke. (The part about the guy with the little dead fish was not a joke.)


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## Slabs! (Oct 1, 2005)

Etiquette- always such a wonderful topic. Can't wait til the next one gets posted


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## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

Spinfisher, I see your point and appreciate your input. And don't blame you for saying how you feel. That is why we are here. But the way that I see it, it is about etiquette, and for people to have enough sense about some stream management so the next time they want to go out and catch a trout, there might be one there for them to catch. Again, nothing wrong with taking an eater home. And I don't mean to class all spin fisherman together. And I am also not saying that fly fisherman are better that all the rest (maybe), but any one can throw out a worm and catch a fish. But when you tie your own flies, and work so hard to master a sport, then only to have your river cleaned out by spin fisherman that could really care less whether they were catching a trout or a sucker. Well, you get the picture. All I am saying, and hoping to get through to the spin fisherman that are smart enough to find this and read it is "Try not to be so greedy. We only have 3 trout streams in the state of Ohio, and everyone has to fish here."


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

I find it interesting that you say you see my point and then immediately follow that statement with a post that proves you don't even understand what my point is.

But I really do hope you get through to the spin fishermen who are smart enough to read your post.


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## vkutsch (Oct 28, 2005)

Seems to me that Jamie has more of a problem with BAIT fishers. When I hear "spin fisher", I think of someone more like, well, Spinfisher - a fisherman who uses spinners and other lures and has a higher appreciation for the esoteric value of the sport than most baitfishers. While I'm partial to flyfishing- and yes, spinfisher, you probably catch more on the whole (or hole, so to speak) than flyfisherman, because flyfishing is more challenging, which a big part of the attraction. But I think the people debating in this thread would find they have more in common with each other than with target of Jamies' ire (wormdunkers).
But sometimes, you just want to catch a damn fish! And you do what it takes.


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

Well said, vk.

Actually, I use an ultralight spinning reel, but rarely a spinner lure. I use 2-lb. test line and a long, ultralight rod. The lures I use when I'm on the Mad are truly ultralight and are more akin to flies (1/32-oz., etc) than the lures used by a lot of fishermen who use a fly rod.

I agree with you that Jamie's beef seems to be with so-called "bait" fishermen, but I don't like lumping all of those guys together, either. I have a good friend who likes to use live bait, but he doesn't keep illegal fish--or legal fish. He releases all fish, as I do. Granted, I doubt the survival rate of his fish is as good as ours.

Incidentally, by my definition and Webster's, flies _are_ bait. So wouldn't it be more sporting if the rest of us used bare hooks instead of "cheating" by going to so much trouble trying to trick those poor, pea-brained little fish by making our flies and lures look so much like real critters?


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## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

I don't mind worm dunkers so bad, but you aren't listening. Do me a favor and spend a day on the Mad and you tell me how you see the "worm dunkers" treat your space, the river, and the fish. Not to mention all the canisters laying around on the stream bank marked "Live Bait". And if you don't believe me, go to the bridge crossing on 29, park at the parking area and walk to the bridge. I bet you will count at least 20 live bait cups littered along the bank. And who do you suppose did that? The fly fisherman, not to mention all the empty pop bottles tossed down right where they fish. Like I said. Spend a day on the Mad and take some mental notes of the spin guys and while your there do the same with the fly fishermen and let me know how the results come out. I don't want to come off as a bad guy with my nose up in the air. But you need to go to the river and take a look.


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## troutgetter (Feb 20, 2006)

today was an extremely good day on the river i spin fish oh jus about everyother day and in the last 2-3 weeks ive walked from behind the old quarry in zanesfield damn near to spring field and a buddy and i have been able to land nearly 300 fish today i landed 25 or so never caught so many rainbows in one day largest rainbow today 18.5 biggest brownwent 16 they were jus blowing it up i went 4 cast in a row catching a fish... yesterday was ok a night and day difference from yesterday to today.......between my self and my friend we produced probably 40 fish today last week pulled a 24'' brown in 24'' water from an old undercut he couldnt resist the night crawler


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## troutgetter (Feb 20, 2006)

you know my friend and i are what you might call worm dunkers we fish 9' crappies rod on microlite reels 4lb test but were prolly some of the most ethical fisherman you'll find we bring our crawlers in baitholders we use barbless hooks and were courteous but you know if i walk down the river and some is fishing a hole i want to be in im not going to barge in im simply going to go to the next hole because on the weekend its like a giant sage convention at the farm market its like trout unlimited is have a meeting in westliberty you fish your way i fish my no way is wrong


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## troutgetter (Feb 20, 2006)

come now be honest with me just because you have a fly rod in your hand you dont drink pop ethics doesnt come with what gear you use any one could litter like a fly fisherman has never carried a chew can or a pop bottle seriously id say its a little bit of eveyone..... NOT JUST THOSE DAMN SPIN FISHERS find something else to whine about insted of whining about it go clean it up


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

You Guys are starting to sound like The Carp Forum did a couple weeks ago. Instead of pissing and moaning plus knocking how each other fish, why not take a trash bag with you and clean up litter on your way back to the car? Why not petition the state to approve signs that state "Littering Fines"? You might accomplish something other than finding fault with each other if you try.


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

Excellent Post Shortdrift. A real fisherman uses the best method suited for the conditions be it fly, lure, or worm. If you have to resort to making it "harder" to catch 10" stockers to make it enjoyable I suggest you move on to other types of fishing. 
I always get a kick out of the guys that will "fly-fish" over the stocker hole and brag that they caught dozens of fish. Same goes for spin or bait guys that do the same. I have trout fished intensively over the last 10 yrs and can count on 1 hand the double digit days - but again I don't fish over stocker holes or behind the stock truck. 
With that said I do agree with your lament about "meat" fisherman. Much of this attitude comes from the state dumping 1000's of rainbows in lakes that are hauled out almost immediately. Any "real" trout fisherman understand's that this is an affront to an otherwise noble fish - but this is what drives the lack of respect for them by traditional "meat" fisherman. For me I fish to catch fish and will use any legal method to do so. I am not in it for the method or for some false allure of any method being more difficult or skilled. If it is that big of a deal then fish hookless flies - it's all about the take right?


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## gulfvet (Apr 14, 2004)

Personally, I love to hear that a certain body of water is "fished out". Rumors like those are the best thing I've ever seen to get rid of the crowds. And I've caught so many really nice fish from waters that people told me were fished out that now those are the places I look for when I move to a new area. We had the same thing back where I grew up. Nobody thought there were any fish in the waters of the local city park. I caught so many bass, crappie, northerns, rock bass and pike in that park it was just silly. And several times I hooked one as someone was standing by trying to tell me there were no fish left where I was casting. 

So I kind of agree with whoever it was that said it's a matter of persistence and skill. And please keep spreading the rumor about the Mad being fished out! One day you'll drive over it and see a guy in midstream, grinning, and it will be me (or maybe salmonid)!


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## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

Well, there you go. You guys have figured it all out.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Several of you have sent me PM's asking why I havent piped in on this one and its pretty obvious why by nowif you havent figured it out. I figured Id let it run its course and then add my .02 worth.
Bottom line is we all litter to some degree, weather its a 1 inch piece of tag line from a leader or if its a 6 pack and a nice slighty used diaper from the kid, just a matter of what degree we feel is acceptable, Same with keeping fish, if its within the law, so be it, sure Id do it slightly different but I dont make the laws. I used to get worked up over issues like this but its just not worth the effort. Now, certainly we all at some poiint or another in our evolution through fishing have used spin gear and worms, no question about it if you want to catch fish use worms. It took me a long time to switch to fly gear with confidence but now, there is no question I could outfish bait guys 90 % of time,( on the Mad) but it took a long time to get that way. I enjoy fly fishing for the challenge and lets face it trout and steelhead are as easy to catch as any species, lets not kid ourselves. but throw in a novice fly guy and hey, you feel pretty darn good when you start to get some nice rewards for your casting, that is great and we do it for the challenge behind it, it has nothing to do with what types of gear I use, in fact if I was fishing for dinner every night, it would be seldom you would ever catch me without live bait. Already this year, Ive fished cut bait and live bait for catfish, Fly rods for Carp, trout, skip jacks and hybrid stripers, flies for trout and spin gear for saugeyes and smallies, I use whatever methods increases my chances for catching what Im seeking. Im far from a purest but on the Mad I prefer to flyfish by choice. 
It all really boils down to stream etiquette and litter awareness, no matter what you use, if you follow basic conservation ethics ( dont litter, trespass, pick up trash even if its not your and most importantly, share what doesnt belong to you, IE the river) youll learn more then you can imagine by sharing and receiving fishing info equally. It all about giving and receiving, but the problem tends to happen when the cycle isnt complete and people assume the world owes them something, these are the "takers" they want it all for themselves and never share info with anyone nor do they respect anyone else, these folks are truly missing what its all about when we get outdoors.

Ok, that was more like .03 cents worth, sorry for the rant.
Salmonid
(President Mad Men Chapter of Trout Unlimited)


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## flytyer (Jan 3, 2005)

amen!!! Why not put this one to rest!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

I would like to add my thoughts. I lived out west for several years and almost all the rivers I worked on and fished were catch and release only with flies and lures only. Many fly only. Most further were single and barbless hooks. This was due to the huge amount of fishing pressure and as effort to improve the fisheries and insure great fishing in the future. Many of the fish that we would catch had visable signs of being caught before. I even caught fish with my fly still in the lip from when she broke me off the day before. I would only suggest that we as anglers look to some of these methods such as using single barbless hooks and keep only fish within the leagal limit that we intend to eat. The Mad, like it or not is a "put and take fishery. However this does not mean as individuals we cannot take steps to better the fishery. As mentioned in previous posts carry a trash bag and take out some trash with you. Practice good handling techniques when bringing fish to hand. And communicate with fellow anglers on the water. I have seen bait fisherman keep fish that I would like to see released and I have seen flyfisherman do the same. I recall seeing a flyfisherman coming off the river with two 18" browns draging on stringer behind him. Again he has the right to keep these fish but the guy had a camera around his neck>>>>>I won't get into the differance between spin and fly. I prefer to flyfish. To me catching a rising trout on a dry fly that I tied the night before is the best in trout fishing. Some may not share that opinion. I think we all (spin or fly) just need to take on the responsability of maintaining this valuble fishery. Good fishing to all. S


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## BlueWater (Feb 13, 2005)

...there is less trash on the banks of East Fork Lake tonight. All of this back and forth inspired me to take action today. I went fishing and when I was done I packed-out all the trash I could carry. I have always been mindful of the environment, but now I will make packing-out trash part of every fishing trip.

Today was my first time to EF and it is a beautiful place, reminds me of the saltwater bays from back home (NJ). I caught my first fish of 2006 a hybrid. Squeezed the last bit of value from my 2005 license!

BlueWater


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## jamie329 (Mar 11, 2005)

Good for you blue water.


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

BlueWater said:


> ...there is less trash on the banks of East Fork Lake tonight. All of this back and forth inspired me to take action today. I went fishing and when I was done I packed-out all the trash I could carry. I have always been mindful of the environment, but now I will make packing-out trash part of every fishing trip.
> 
> Today was my first time to EF and it is a beautiful place, reminds me of the saltwater bays from back home (NJ). I caught my first fish of 2006 a hybrid. Squeezed the last bit of value from my 2005 license!
> 
> BlueWater


..... email me if you would be so kind!











[email protected]


I'm not from there either (Maine) but I see how you miss it!


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