# Dog intro to birds



## gohabs1985

Just got a F setter from Jerry down at Wildwoods Llewelins and so far she has been a great pup! She is my first hunting dog but 2nd dog overall. I trained our first dog really well on basics like housebreaking, coming when called, not ranging too far, etc and have already gotten the setter on the same track.

My question is, when and HOW do I start working her specifically for hunting? I have seen and read tons of different things on the subject but wanted to see what some people with first hand experience thought. I have seen DO use the wing on a fishing rod training and DON'T do that. Same with DO use pigeons and DON"T ever use domestic birds. 

Just wondered if you guys had any good resources on the subject so I don't screw up a good blood line by mis working her early. Any videos, books, or trainers (inexpensive trainers; can't break the bank unless I want a divorce ha) that anyone can suggest is great appreciated.

Thanks!

Tom


----------



## gohabs1985

PS: she is 6 months old


----------



## GidBass

Im new to training a pointer. My previous dogs were labs. But like you ive researched a lot. I can say standing stone kennels have some great content on youtube on taking a dog from intro's to shooting birds while on point. My gsp was pointing and getting better until a training hunt with poor flying quail. She caught four of them. After the first two i just should've stopped. My fault. But now I am fixing her lack of natural point using some of their stuff. She does whoa well on command. I trained her on a half hitch lead, then collar, then e-collar low stim (this was after the e-collar was already taught/conditioned as a communication tool earlier during obedience and it was used very rarely), then rod and wing were intoduced to associate the command with birds and temptation. One other thing. I have had my sons film a good bit of my yard and field training and i cant say how much being able to review what ive done well and not so well has helped. Hope to have a decent hunter by next fall like you!


----------



## Redheads

What kind of hunting are you planning on doing with her ?


----------



## STRONGPERSUADER

You can use a shock collar but it’s not a necessity. I’ve used them training SH’s out of “big runner” or field trial stock. But your EP should be ok without. You can use a wing and just play with her. Just don’t let her catch it. You’re really going to get the fever when she points that wing. You can start whoa training just playing with her like this. You can also get some pigeons to get her started. But I would teach her to whoa and to hold point on a lead. Work on teaching her the distance on how far out you would like her to hunt. Always use leads when using birds until you are both confident enough that she won’t break point, or catch a bird. Just remember her natural instinct is to point. You just need to teach her to hold it until you flush. There are a lot of training videos on the internet and some good books at the library. Back in the day, I’ve have had and trained SH’s, Brits, and even had a Gordon Setter once. Trained them to hunt for me if that makes sense. You will figure out what works for you both. Good luck! There are some good bird dog guys on here that can give you some great advice also.
My male has been out a few times after I worked with him. I’ve shot a few birds over him. He’s now 3 but I havnt had much time to work him in the last year or so due to my medical issues. I’m going to get back on him this summer. Let’s see a picture of your dogs guys.


----------



## Mi-Mic-Kay

I agree with everything SP said! I had 8 or 9 (can't remember) pups out of a female setter years ago and I had all of them pointing a wing by the time they were 8 weeks old.
My dogs have all wore collars but I rarely use them, if so usually the tone. Remember, bird dogs can be sensitive!
I also introduced them to pigeons around 6 months old. Everyone has there own ways and beliefs. You'll find out she teaching you as your teaching her

Here's my Brit after a morning hunt last fall in MI










And a well deserved Nap!


----------



## STRONGPERSUADER

Man I’m gonna have to get up there and hunt some grouse one of these years. Good lookin Brit. I had a good female yrs back. She was a very determined hunter, took commands well. It was kinda funny, I had my mind set on a liver and white Brit so when I went to get a pup she wouldn’t leave me alone so I got her, an orange one. She was a special one for sure. Excellent pointing breed.


----------



## ckfowler

My Harper is aunt to your pup, same father as Jake. Sounds like you are on your way to the most important command in the field, a bomb proof recall. This gets harder when they are distracted but really is absolutely needed. The wing on a pole is neat to take some photos of a young pup Pointing but really does little unless you need to build bird drive which shouldn’t be a problem given your pup’s breeding. I would suggest a whoa table, cheap to make with a sheet of plywood and sawhorses. Cut in half lengthwise and then cut one of those in half for ramps. Hinges to attach to the remaining long piece. May need some carpet or cross strips for traction getting up there if sawhorses are tall. Will see if I can post a photo but can be found online pretty easily. Teach to stay at a stand instead of sit and transition to the ground. Half hitch with long lead around waist also helpful there. Practice once learned with whoa when opening doors, messing around in the house or yard and don’t be afraid to use treats to reward sometimes. All of this without birds until it is 90% and then start on birds. Only clip or allow to catch if they need to build prey drive. 

[email protected] I am by Urbana if I can be of any assistance.


----------



## ckfowler

This has permanent base, same idea


----------



## ckfowler

This is Harper and what you have to look forward to


----------



## I_Shock_Em

FWIW...wings and pigeons worked for me......I started my gsp on the pheasant wing/fishing rod at 6 weeks. By 3-4 months we were working live pigeons.


----------



## SportTroller

gohabs1985 said:


> Just got a F setter from Jerry down at Wildwoods Llewelins and so far she has been a great pup! She is my first hunting dog but 2nd dog overall. I trained our first dog really well on basics like housebreaking, coming when called, not ranging too far, etc and have already gotten the setter on the same track.
> 
> My question is, when and HOW do I start working her specifically for hunting? I have seen and read tons of different things on the subject but wanted to see what some people with first hand experience thought. I have seen DO use the wing on a fishing rod training and DON'T do that. Same with DO use pigeons and DON"T ever use domestic birds.
> 
> Just wondered if you guys had any good resources on the subject so I don't screw up a good blood line by mis working her early. Any videos, books, or trainers (inexpensive trainers; can't break the bank unless I want a divorce ha) that anyone can suggest is great appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tom


George Hickox, The hunters guide to training Pointing Dogs!


----------



## ckfowler

Hosting National Llewellin Gun Dog Club trial April 27/28 at West Liberty. Jerry will come up for sure along with folks from as far as KY and IN. Stop by to chat, walk with someone for cost of birds as Puppy class or enter your pup in Derby event if you are killing birds over them now.


----------



## ckfowler

http://www.llewellinsetterclub.com/upcoming-trials/


----------



## Big Mo

I worked early with a 100’ check cord and planted live quail. Had quail in a flight trap, worked well to get point down, strengthen whoa, and the release and the shot! I didn’t bring e-collar in to training until he got to 1. Was more worried about being gun shy and building trust! Probably no text book way that works for all, my dog trained me much more than I trained him!! Good luck and get her out often! Can’t expect her to grow only hunting once a month!


----------



## jerkaperch

I took this pic today. Funny this topic popped up. This is our first Brit and he’s best buddies with our two GSPs already. He’s 9 weeks old and has found my kids chickens to fascinating.


----------



## buckeyebowman

jerkaperch said:


> View attachment 309621
> I took this pic today. Funny this topic popped up. This is our first Brit and he’s best buddies with our two GSPs already. He’s 9 weeks old and has found my kids chickens to fascinating.


Great pic! My buddy lost his prime GSP hunter last year to ovarian cancer, I think. He was heartbroken! And honestly didn't know if he wanted another pup. But his wife kept bringing up the idea. Finally she located a champion breeder not far away who had pups for sale, and laid down the law! "There WILL be a German Shorthair Pointer in this house!" 

So, they bought a pup, and it's amazing how instinctual a lot of the behavior is. They have bird feeders in both the front and back yards, and the pup would point the birds on the feeder when let out to do it's business! Once it got big enough to get on the chair by the front window that allowed it to see the feeder, it would point the birds from the chair! 

I had a Springer Spaniel back in the day, and took him to my buddy's house. He had a cockatiel in a cage. My dog wasn't hunting yet, only about 4-5 months old, but almost knocked over the bird cage trying to flush that cockatiel. They are a flushing breed after all!


----------



## ckfowler

Llewellin Setter Gun Dog club trials West Liberty Sept 21-22. Come see what she can do!


----------



## gohabs1985

ckfowler said:


> Llewellin Setter Gun Dog club trials West Liberty Sept 21-22. Come see what she can do!


Would LOVE to do that but I am 100% sure that she is nowhere near ready for anything like that. She has a lot of underlying issues that we are still working out. She is really skittish and stubborn. Think we just got her too old and she developed a lot of quarks/fears as a really young pup. Working with Don at Meglynn retrievers and she is coming along well with his direction. Someday she will get there but about a 0% chance she runs/hunts this year.


----------



## Muddy

Don should be able to help you out. He's been doing it for a long time and knows his stuff.


----------



## ckfowler

Could come to see what to work towards.


----------



## c. j. stone

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> Man I’m gonna have to get up there and hunt some grouse one of these years. Good lookin Brit. I had a good female yrs back. She was a very determined hunter, took commands well. It was kinda funny, I had my mind set on a liver and white Brit so when I went to get a pup she wouldn’t leave me alone so I got her, an orange one. She was a special one for sure. Excellent pointing breed.


I've only had Brits for canine pets/hunters since I graduated college and started huntingbin Ohio(1969!) Always had two at a time(always spayed females!-males are always hard-headed w/minds of their own), an older one, a younger one. The older one "taught" the younger one to hunt, and so on. I just took them out as much as time permitted, they all had "natural" hunting instinct for finding and pointing birds, some were Great bird dogs, all loved to hunt(some did not retrieve but would always find down or crippled birds). AlwYs let the pup "choose me" when buying. ALL were wonderful family/house pets! I always also used the wing on a fishing pole to make them "steady on point" as pups. Also used the shock collars on low setting,mostly the beep tone is all it took to get their attention or stop them from "chasing" wildly flushed birds or bunnies!


----------



## buckeyebowman

gohabs1985 said:


> Would LOVE to do that but I am 100% sure that she is nowhere near ready for anything like that. She has a lot of underlying issues that we are still working out. She is really skittish and stubborn. Think we just got her too old and she developed a lot of quarks/fears as a really young pup. Working with Don at Meglynn retrievers and she is coming along well with his direction. Someday she will get there but about a 0% chance she runs/hunts this year.


My buddy is facing the same issue with his GSP young 'un. He's taking it to a trainer, but my buddy seems to be in a hurry to get this dog to hunt, and I think I know why. Years back he had a litter from a pair with champion bloodlines a mile long that he bought out of Indiana. He sold most of the litter. One of the pups came back, the owner claiming it wouldn't hunt and was gun shy! This was AFTER the hunting season. My buddy refunded his money. Then, just BEFORE the next hunting season, this guy comes back saying he was willing to take the dog back.

My buddy read the room pretty quick! This guy just wanted someone to house and feed the dog during the off season! He told the guy the dog was no longer for sale, as he and his wife had become attached. When pheasant season rolled around, he took it hunting despite his wife griping about him traumatizing or losing "her" dog! She actually called him in the middle of his hunt to see how things were going. The dog was a hunting machine! It did things that boggled both of our minds! 

The thing is, my buddy was basically handed a fully trained bird dog for the original selling price, which was $400! Which I told him was far too cheap for the bloodlines in the pedigree. That dog should have sold for about 3 times that, but he was not a well established breeder. He was just getting started with GSP's. He had a reputation with Labs. He didn't have to invest the time and money to get that dog trained. It came to him "fully cooked", "plug and play", whatever euphemism you wish to use!


----------



## buckeyebowman

Had to bring this back up, because my buddy had a breakthrough with the new GSP the other day. We had taken her out to the trainer a few times, and he pronounced that she had all the tools, but needed work on her confidence and desire. He had to curtail the training because he got laid off, plus the trainer was going down South doing field trials.

My buddy also has some medical issues that have plagued him. The other day he told his wife he needed to go somewhere and think. He loaded Grace, (the new GSP), his shotgun and hunting coat in the truck and drove to the club. He figured he'd walk around, give the dog a good run, and come to some decisions about what he needs to do in regards to his health. 

Hiking in to the easiest spot to hunt on the property, in fact it's now reserved for Seniors, he asked the spirit of his old hunter, Abigail, to get into Grace's brain and help her know what to do. He told me that he knew it sounded corny, but Grace's training has been on and off, and we haven't been able to hunt her much this season due to my buddy's medical issues. He has spinal injuries that sometimes make it difficult for him to walk! They get in there, and Grace is hunting like a demon! Long story short, he got 2 roosters in 20 minutes! 

He was amazed at her performance! What happened? We guess she just reached a stage in her life where a transition took place. We really don't know. Anyway, he walked her around a bit more, then loaded up and took her to another place. She now seems afraid of nothing. Not thickets, briers, anything. The only thing she won't do yet is retrieve, so my buddy has begun working on that.


----------



## gohabs1985

That is awesome! I am hoping for a similar situation with my Llewellyn Setter. She is only about 1.5 yrs old and still very skittish, timid, and flighty. She has some level of hearing loss so needless to say training has been a huge uphill battle. I have kind of settled on the idea that she might simply be my wifes dog forever and never hunt. Still hope that the "light switch" turns on when she gets older and her desire to "please" starts to over ride her desire to chase cars and be afraid of stuff


----------



## bustedrod

my female gsp megan was very smart , she knew all the commands , excellent companion/hhuntress . would fetch any bird i brought down, then one day dove hunting i dropped a pigeon and she ran out to fetch , grabbed the bird and spit it out , looked at me like wtf and came back...would not fetch any pigeons ever,,,...hehehheeh


----------



## buckeyebowman

Back when my buddy duck hunted a lot, he had a yellow lab male named Buckwheat who would do that with a coot. Not that he shot coots. We made the mistake of going out to the old fish hatchery at Grand River Wildlife Area for opening day of duck season. What a zoo! Skybusters everywhere, and a complete and total waste of time! Anyway, wound up walking around and talking to guys. One guy had a "duck" down in the water, and asked my buddy if his dog would retrieve it. So, my buddy shot near it so the dog could see where it was and sent him to retrieve. The instant he reached shore, the dog spit the bird out at the water's edge. My buddy explained to the guy that that was how the dog was with coots. If it was a mallard, he would have retrieved to hand. 

On the walk in, we passed a pond that had "ducks" on it. I pointed them out and my buddy observed them for a little while. He pointed out to me how their heads would move forward and back as they paddled around. He told me, "Ducks don't do that. Those are coots and we don't want anything to do with them." Later on he told me about one of his earliest "duck" hunting experiences as a youngster. He had a good day on the lake behind their house, but these ducks were different. Instead of bills, they had beaks like chickens. And they didn't have webbed feet, but chicken feet! He took them home and showed his Mom. She said it was nice he had fun, and here's what she wanted him to do. Go in the garage and get a shovel, then take the birds back to the garden, dig a bunch of holes, and bury them! He asked why and she said, "Because these are coots! They smell like worms and taste like dirt! I'm happy to cook real ducks for you, but not these!"


----------



## buckeyebowman

Got another report. My buddy was talking to a guy he used to work with who bought a Brittany Spaniel, and wanted to get her out. He's also a member of the club. My buddy met him there with the new GSP, Grace, and they headed out. After a while Grace went on point that my buddy said, on a scale from 1 to 10, was a pure 10! My buddy sent his friend to flush and shoot the bird, and what came roaring out of there was a raptor of some sort! My buddy couldn't tell exactly what it was, maybe a Kestrel or a Cooper's Hawk. 

Grace chased for a short distance. Her eagerness has really shot up the charts. They passed the same spot on the way out, and Grace snapped to a point again! What's going on here? They checked and there was a dead pheasant laying there!


----------

