# Creek fishing and trespassing questions??



## BadMeat

I was out fishing a creek with 2 buddies and as we came back up to where we had parked, low and behold there was a sheriff there waiting for us. It was at bridge area and he was very nice in informing us about fishing in the creek and the laws, but I really don't remember much he said. 

Something about parking at bridges and the easements, that you can park at a bridge and fish under the bridge but as soon as you go a certain amount of feet above or below that bridge and are on land, that this is considered trespassing and we could be arrested for it. However, if you're in a kayak or canoe you're not tresspassing, only if you put any part of your body on the land. 

He said you need to get written permission to fish the areas unless you're under a bridge. Can someone clarify this if they have any idea on how to fish these creeks. It would be damn near impossible to figure out who owns the land the creeks run through and can you park at any bridge that goes over a creek?


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## mcoppel

He's right on smaller creeks that run through land, farm land, etc. Except for easments, you will need permision to step out of the boat.


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## ostbucks98

When you buy your fishing license they give you a written permission slip.Its just like hunting now for fishing. You cant just have verbal permission. You must carry a written permission slip at all times when on private property.


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## samfishdyt

If I may add, ask for permission. If they say no don't fish there. I have found that 75 percent of the time they are more than willing to allow you to fish if you ask, and don't act ignorant.


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## treytd32

land owners own the stream bed as well.. so like the officer said you can't step foot on land whether that be in the water or on the shore. I have gone through the tedious process of getting permission from owners before..generally if you ask and they don't have the land posted they will accomodate you. Just be polite and if you don't get the answer your looking for find some more water. There are some maps out there somewhere of public access to said creeks and rivers. I know I have seen them posted on here before.


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## CO_Trout

Spring and early summer floating down these creeks in canoe or kayak is about the only way to legally fish them. 
If you find a part that you like. the best way to get permission is to go knock on some doors and ask for permission. 
Also be advised, there are some bridges that have No Parking signs posted near the bridge. if you park near one of those bridges, your car may get towed.


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## acklac7

BadMeat said:


> I was out fishing a creek with 2 buddies and as we came back up to where we had parked, low and behold there was a sheriff there waiting for us. It was at bridge area and he was very nice in informing us about fishing in the creek and the laws, but I really don't remember much he said.
> 
> Something about parking at bridges and the easements, that you can park at a bridge and fish under the bridge but as soon as you go a certain amount of feet above or below that bridge and are on land, that this is considered trespassing and we could be arrested for it. However, if you're in a kayak or canoe you're not tresspassing, only if you put any part of your body on the land.
> 
> He said you need to get written permission to fish the areas unless you're under a bridge. Can someone clarify this if they have any idea on how to fish these creeks. It would be damn near impossible to figure out who owns the land the creeks run through and can you park at any bridge that goes over a creek?


This has been discussed a million times on here. Keep in mind that alot of Cops dont don't follow the letter of the law and often times "make up there own", especially in rural areas - This pisses me off to no end.

PRIVATE PROPERTY MUST BE POSTED (IN ANY NUMBER OF WAYS) OR ITS NOT PRIVATE. IF YOU ARE EVER ACCUSED OF TRESPASSING ASK THE OFFICER TO SHOW YOU HOW YOU WERE INFORMED THE LAND WAS PRIVATE. IF HE CANNOT DO SO YOU ARE WELL WITHIN YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS TO BE THERE!! (UP UNTIL THE TIME HE INFORMED YOU THE LAND WAS PRIVATE, THEN YOU MUST LEAVE, OR BE CHARGED WITH TRESPASSING).

Sorry for the rant but I cant stand cops making up there own laws, then violating our rights as anglers.


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## SirVeyor

Ohio does not have a right of entry law. That said, you are not allowed access to someone's property without their permission regardless of whether they have signs posted or not. Streams that are navigable are usually (99%) owned by the government, hence you see kayaks or canoes going down them. The boundaries of property that is contiguous to a navigable stream is usually defined as the high water mark or low water mark at the time the property was conveyed. As was stated you touch the land and you are trespassing.

As others have said "Ask for permission"


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## acklac7

SirVeyor said:


> Ohio does not have a right of entry law. That said, you are not allowed access to someone's property without their permission regardless of whether they have signs posted or not. Streams that are navigable are usually (99%) owned by the government, hence you see kayaks or canoes going down them. The boundaries of property that is contiguous to a navigable stream is usually defined as the high water mark or low water mark at the time the property was conveyed. As was stated you touch the land and you are trespassing.
> 
> As others have said "Ask for permission"


Ohio does not have any sort of High water mark statue.

Here is the criminal trespass statue as defined in section 2911.21 of the Ohio Revised Code (availible @ http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC)

§ 2911.21. Criminal trespass.

(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following: 

(1) *Knowingly* enter or remain on the land or premises of another; 

(2) *Knowingly* enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard; 

(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, *]as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access; * 
(4) *Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place  or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either. * (B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency. 
(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such authorization was secured by deception. 
(D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal trespass, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. 
(E) As used in this section, "land or premises" includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another, and any separate enclosure or room, or portion thereof.


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## acklac7

SirVeyor said:


> As was stated you touch the land and you are trespassing.


Wrong.

You have to somehow be _*NOTIFIED*_ the land is private in order to technically be trespassing. If you have not been notified you are not in violation of the law.


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## catfishnut

I know that on parts of the rocky river ( by the Lewis rd. bridge for example) half of it is public and half is private.....get caught steelhead fishing on the wrong side and you get a ticket.


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## WishinIwasFishin

I've also read before that you are on that private land if you anchor.

It all stinks. If I stay off of their banks it should be ok. It is ridiculous that creek and river beds are private. 

I have read many threads on this issue here through the years. It makes me sick each time that I don't have the freedom to fish creeks and rivers at my discretion as long as I am not disturbing anything or ruining the environment in some way. As a former Boy Scout I always leave a place better than what I found it (except maybe a bathroom).

Although it will never happen, boy do I wish the laws were changed.


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## backlashed

WishinIwasFishin said:


> It all stinks. If I stay off of their banks it should be ok. It is ridiculous that creek and river beds are private.



No it's not. I have a creek that passes through my property. I'm the one that keeps it clear, and work to keep the banks from eroding. I've chased more than a few people out of it collecting rocks for their garden walls or setting traps for bait fish. Some even try to cut down trees for firewood. 

They all walk past my private property sign. No one has ever bothered to ask once.


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## acklac7

backlashed said:


> No it's not. I have a creek that passes through my property. I'm the one that keeps it clear, and work to keep the banks from eroding. I've chased more than a few people out of it collecting rocks for their garden walls or setting traps for bait fish. Some even try to cut down trees for firewood.
> 
> They all walk past my private property sign. No one has ever bothered to ask once.


Great example. Those people are clearly trespassing and should be thrown in jail / given a ticket.


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## Dandrews

Here's a couple links on the subject

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/4158/Default.aspx

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Portals/9/pdf/DNR%208924.pdf


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## JimmyMac

This subject is so confusing to me. I just fish whatever part I want unless I see signs or areas that are obviously well kept and used by the owner. 

So if you buy land that includes part of a river/creek, can you do things to the river/creek (the part on your land)? Like dig out a deeper whole, dig a pond and run a trench to the creek ect?


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## acklac7

It gets confusing because so many people think they know the law and they don't (Law Enforcement Included!). Everyone seems to think that just because someone is on there property they are guilty of/can be charged with trespassing and that simply is not the case.


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## slimdaddy45

JimmyMac said:


> This subject is so confusing to me. I just fish whatever part I want unless I see signs or areas that are obviously well kept and used by the owner.
> 
> So if you buy land that includes part of a river/creek, can you do things to the river/creek? Like dig out a deeper whole, dig a pond and run a trench to the creek ect?


No I dont beleive you can do that you cant alter a waterway thats against the law or get a permit to do so


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## acklac7

ostbucks98 said:


> When you buy your fishing license they give you a written permission slip.Its just like hunting now for fishing.


Ok this is news to me. As I recall there is a separate statue for Hunters that reads something like "you are always trespassing whether you are notified the land is private or not". If this is now the case for Anglers someone please correct me.


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## profisher5

This subject is not confusing, you can own land on both sides of a creek or any stream, but you do not own the creek or stream that belong's to the state. As long as they don't tie up to something on the bank they are legal.


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## acklac7

The water belongs to the state. The stream bed itself belongs to the land owner.


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## Fishaholic69

laws suck....


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## Snakecharmer

acklac7 said:


> Ok this is news to me. As I recall there is a separate statue for Hunters that reads something like "you are always trespassing whether you are notified the land is private or not". If this is now the case for Anglers someone please correct me.


This is from Dandrews post. It's the permission form for Hunting/Fishing/Trapping
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Portals/9/pdf/DNR 8924.pdf


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## Fishaholic69

Snakecharmer said:


> This is from Dandrews post. It's the permission form for Hunting/Fishing/Trapping
> http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Portals/9/pdf/DNR 8924.pdf


my buddy just got a fishing license in southern ohio 2 weeks ago and they gave him a permission slip for fishing private property. Weird we live in northern Ohio and when I got mine up here they never gave me such a slip? is southern ohio diff than northern ohio?


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## Snakecharmer

acklac7 said:


> It gets confusing because _*so many people think they know the law and they don't *_(Law Enforcement Included!). Everyone seems to think that just because someone is on there property they are guilty of/can be charged with trespassing and that simply is not the case.


Your right on this.....


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## Snakecharmer

Fishaholic69 said:


> my buddy just got a fishing license in southern ohio 2 weeks ago and they gave him a permission slip for fishing private property. Weird we live in northern Ohio and when I got mine up here they never gave me such a slip? is southern ohio diff than northern ohio?


Looks like the form was just created . (R1106) = ? Revived June 2011 ?


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## acklac7

Fishaholic69 said:


> is southern ohio diff than northern ohio?


LOL, do you really need to ask that?


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## Salmonid

Of course its important to understand that Ohio Law interprets the prior posted definitions as " somone owns everything" so it IS INDEED all private. There are other definitions buried in the code stating that crossing a improved road, a gravel lane, a 2 track, a tree line, a fence row, even a delapitated one is considered the same as "posting" a sign. If you ask your local County Prosecutor, they will tell you in Ohio, you do NOT need to post your property to be arrested for Trespassing. There are a few loopholes to this law as our fishing group has spent many years understanding Ohio's laws regarding this very subject but I wont post them as several on here still seem to think that just because someone else is paying the taxes on a property, that they still can access it. 

Local law enforcement is following local precedents on items like Trespassing so its not that he is making up his own rules, its what is generally being used as interpretation in his jurisdiction. This typically comes down from the local prosecutors so thats where you should be addressing your concerns.

Yes, you may float through a property because you are using it as a "highway" as all Ohio watereways are considered legal for use in this fashion but once you anchor,or step foot on the bottom you are no longer using the waterway as a Highway and you could be arrested/cited. 
Along these same lines, once you cast a line, set a trap, shoot a duck or anything else, you would then be cited possibly for "Hunting Wildlife without permission"

Last point, if you own a stream bed, to alter the channel in ANY way requires an Army Corps of Eng. 404 Permit. This includes removing all the trees along the stream bed, rechannelization, digging out holes, using ground water for irrigation beyon a reasonable amount, I forget how many gallons are allowed per day without a permit, adding any type of dams or any gravel removal more then what is considered "Normal" use. ( IE some gravel from stream for roadways/paths on a farm) no form of commercial mining may be done without a permit.


Bottom line is there are many "grey" areas in Ohio's laws regarding stream access so its always best to ask firt when wading, if I was floating, Id fish without asking, but know that if asked to stop or to leave, failure to do so would be automatic grounds for a citation from Mr sherrif.

If you do some research on here, about every 3-4 months this topic gets heavy traffic. It just amazes me how folks think its there right to access others land that others are maintaining,and paying taxes on. I suppose these same folks would get mad when locals would come into your backyard and start hunting squirrels without your permission. LOL

Salmonid


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## acklac7

Salmonid said:


> Of course its important to understand that Ohio Law interprets the prior posted definitions as " somone owns everything" so it IS INDEED all private. There are other definitions buried in the code stating that crossing a improved road, a gravel lane, a 2 track, a tree line, a fence row, even a delapitated one is considered the same as "posting" a sign. If you ask your local County Prosecutor, they will tell you in Ohio, you do NOT need to post your property to be arrested for Trespassing. There are a few loopholes to this law as our fishing group has spent many years understanding Ohio's laws regarding this very subject but I wont post them as several on here still seem to think that just because someone else is paying the taxes on a property, that they still can access it.


Yea it doesn't have to be posted but you have to be somehow notified (Notification can be construed in many different ways!). Say for example I am fishing south of Griggs dam near the Frisbee golf course (public park). I can walk and walk and walk up until I come upon something that notifies me the land may be private. According to the law if I don't find any notification (again notification can be basically anything from a sign to a marker flag, to a maintained lawn) I can walk right onto your property and be well within my legal means to do so.



Salmonid said:


> Local law enforcement is following local precedents on items like Trespassing so its not that he is making up his own rules, its what is generally being used as interpretation in his jurisdiction. This typically comes down from the local prosecutors so thats where you should be addressing your concerns.


LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOULD BE FOLLOWING THE STATE LAW AND NOTHING ELSE, I MEAN THE LAW IS PRETTY CUT-AND-DRY 



Salmonid said:


> Along these same lines, once you *cast a line*, set a trap, shoot a duck or anything else, you would then be cited possibly for "Hunting Wildlife without permission"


The law makes no mention of fishing. Although, once again, im sure most law enforcement officers "make up there own law" and lump Anglers in with Hunters. 

I tried to find a "Fishing without permission" statue but came up blank.

1533.17 Hunting without permission.

(A) No person shall hunt or trap upon any lands, pond, lake, or private waters of another, except water claimed by riparian right of ownership in adjacent lands, or shoot, shoot at, catch, kill, injure, or pursue a wild bird, wild waterfowl, or wild animal thereon without obtaining written permission from the owner or the owner&#8217;s authorized agent.

(B) Except as otherwise provided in this division, the owner, lessee, renter, or occupant of any lands, pond, lake, or private waters upon which a person violates division (A) of this section is not liable in damages to any person in a civil action for injury, death, or loss to person or property that arises during or incidental to the violation. For the purposes of this division, a finding that a person violated division (A) of this section is not dependent upon the person being charged with or convicted of a violation of division (A) of this section. This division does not apply to civil claims based upon alleged willful or wanton misconduct or intentionally tortious conduct of the owner, lessee, renter, or occupant. This division does not create a new cause of action or a substantive legal right against the owner, lessee, renter, or occupant, and does not affect any immunities from civil liability or defenses established by another section of the Revised Code or available at common law, to which the owner, lessee, renter, or occupant may be entitled under circumstances not covered by this section.

(C) A person who obtains the permission required under division (A) of this section shall carry it with the person at all times during which the person is engaged in an activity for which the permission is required and shall exhibit it upon request of a wildlife officer, constable, sheriff, deputy sheriff, police officer, other law enforcement officer, or the owner of the lands, pond, lake, or private waters on which the person is hunting or trapping or the owner&#8217;s authorized agent.

Effective Date: 06-01-1998




Salmonid said:


> If you do some research on here, about every 3-4 months this topic gets heavy traffic. It just amazes me how folks think its there right to access others land that others are* maintaining*,and paying taxes on. I suppose these same folks would get mad when locals would come into your backyard and start hunting squirrels without your permission. LOL
> 
> Salmonid


Maintained land is considered notification of private property, and therefore I wouldn't be walking on it.


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## TomC

2911.21. Criminal trespass.


(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following: 

(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another; 

(2) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard; 

(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access; 

(4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either. 

(B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency. 

(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such authorization was secured by deception. 

(D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal trespass, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. 

(E) As used in this section, "land or premises" includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another, and any separate enclosure or room, or portion thereof. 

here ya go from my ORC book. Man I used my 1,000 post for that


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## Mushijobah

If anyone states that you are trespassing on their property or property they are the authority of, then you better not be back without permission! That counts as your notification. Seen it many times.


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## Mason52

I can remember from long ago and it's always been the same as it is now. You can't own the water flowing through your property but you can own the the stream bed, if not for that they would stop you from fishing all creeks and rivers.


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## Fishaholic69

acklac7 said:


> LOL, do you really need to ask that?


just wondered why I never got a permission slip with my license up here like my buddy got when he got his license in southern ohio.


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## jcustunner24

Geez acklac, with all these statues around I'm surprised you even have room to fish.


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## coyote69

Salmonid said:


> Of course its important to understand that Ohio Law interprets the prior posted definitions as " somone owns everything" so it IS INDEED all private. There are other definitions buried in the code stating that crossing a improved road, a gravel lane, a 2 track, a tree line, a fence row, even a delapitated one is considered the same as "posting" a sign. If you ask your local County Prosecutor, they will tell you in Ohio, you do NOT need to post your property to be arrested for Trespassing. There are a few loopholes to this law as our fishing group has spent many years understanding Ohio's laws regarding this very subject but I wont post them as several on here still seem to think that just because someone else is paying the taxes on a property, that they still can access it.
> 
> Local law enforcement is following local precedents on items like Trespassing so its not that he is making up his own rules, its what is generally being used as interpretation in his jurisdiction. This typically comes down from the local prosecutors so thats where you should be addressing your concerns.
> 
> Yes, you may float through a property because you are using it as a "highway" as all Ohio watereways are considered legal for use in this fashion but once you anchor,or step foot on the bottom you are no longer using the waterway as a Highway and you could be arrested/cited.
> Along these same lines, once you cast a line, set a trap, shoot a duck or anything else, you would then be cited possibly for "Hunting Wildlife without permission"
> 
> Last point, if you own a stream bed, to alter the channel in ANY way requires an Army Corps of Eng. 404 Permit. This includes removing all the trees along the stream bed, rechannelization, digging out holes, using ground water for irrigation beyon a reasonable amount, I forget how many gallons are allowed per day without a permit, adding any type of dams or any gravel removal more then what is considered "Normal" use. ( IE some gravel from stream for roadways/paths on a farm) no form of commercial mining may be done without a permit.
> 
> 
> Bottom line is there are many "grey" areas in Ohio's laws regarding stream access so its always best to ask firt when wading, if I was floating, Id fish without asking, but know that if asked to stop or to leave, failure to do so would be automatic grounds for a citation from Mr sherrif.
> 
> If you do some research on here, about every 3-4 months this topic gets heavy traffic. It just amazes me how folks think its there right to access others land that others are maintaining,and paying taxes on. I suppose these same folks would get mad when locals would come into your backyard and start hunting squirrels without your permission. LOL
> 
> Salmonid


Thankfully we have anglers like Salmonid on the forum to keep you guys straight, his post is the CORRECT def. of the law for all you guys that have no clue. I guess some guys just think they can park where they want and just walk along the streams with not a care in the world of who owns it or any of that mess ?
Truth is...LEARN THE LAWS...its no different than learning fish ID's , bag limits , slot limits...this is another topic that most have no clue about.

I have waded the rivers and streams of central Ohio for 20+ years and have kayaked them for 5+......if you want to be lazy and not learn all there is to learn about the rivers and streams..please stay at the lakes and resivors and leave the flowing water to those of us that enjoy fishing and having a good time RESPECTFULLY with nature and the species of fish that we love... and the land owners who live along them


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## acklac7

coyote69 said:


> thankfully we have anglers like salmonid on the forum to keep you guys straight, his post is the correct def. Of the law for all you guys that have no clue. I guess some guys just think they can park where they want and just walk along the streams with not a care in the world of who owns it or any of that mess ?
> Truth is...learn the laws...its no different than learning fish id's , bag limits , slot limits...this is another topic that most have no clue about.


*I can park on public land then get into a stream and wade onto your land and be well within my legal means to do so until i receive notification that the land is private. Once i receive notification i must turn back/vacate or i will be in violation of the law.*

*Just because im on your land does not mean im trespassing! I have to know im on your land before i am actually in violation of the law. In order for me to know im on your land you, the landowner, must inform me of it. Read the law people! THE STATUE STARTS OFF WITH THE WORD KNOWINGLY!*


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## acklac7

§ 2911.21. Criminal trespass.

(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following: 

(1) *Knowingly* enter or remain on the land or premises of another; 

(2) *Knowingly* enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard; 

(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, *]as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access; * 
(4) *Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place  or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either. * (B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency. 
(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such authorization was secured by deception. 
(D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal trespass, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. 
(E) As used in this section, "land or premises" includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another, and any separate enclosure or room, or portion thereof.


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## acklac7

And for the record I NEVER trespass. But I am sick and tired of people not understanding the law, calling the cops, then having the cops issue tickets/arrest anglers unlawfully. Then having good people go through the mess of getting the charges dropped because some ignorant landowner/police officer doesn't know the law or doesn't care to properly enforce it. THIS HAS HAPPENED TO GOOD UPSTANDING MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD and it downright pisses me off.


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## acklac7

Oh and if I start off wading a stream on public property you can bet I will keep on wading right on through your property if you don't have it somehow marked. More so I will be well within my legal rights to do so.


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## fvogel67

Seven Mile Creek just outside of Collinsville is notorious for land owners running off wading fisherman,Last year we were run off by a land owner who was not all that happy we were wading up the creek.He made it known we were not welcome and not to come back.


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## Mason52

The old saying that ignorance is no excuse to the law comes into play here, IMO

acklac7, to use your thinking about the law if I don't have a no trespassing sign on my property someone should be able to come on my land and hunt if he chooses to do so, not so. Salmonid is right that you don't have to post your property for it to be private. 
Someone does indeed own everything. I live in an area that has lots of wooded property with almost no signs anywhere but, people seem to be able to figure out that someone owns it and they need permission to go onto it.
I have always thought that we should have an easement on stream and river system areas, where applicable, but that's not the case.


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## acklac7

Mason52 said:


> The old saying that ignorance is no excuse to the law comes into play here, IMO
> 
> acklac7, to use your thinking about the law if I don't have a no trespassing sign on my property someone should be able to come on my land and hunt if he chooses to do so, not so. Salmonid is right that you don't have to post your property for it to be private.


First off there is a separate statue for Hunting (as already stated in this thread).

Second, you are correct, you do not have to post your property but you *must* provide some sort of notification the land is privately owned (if you would like to pursue trespassing charges). Notification can come in many different forms but the fact of the matter is that as a land owner it is your responsibility to provide me with notification of private property. This is probably the 5th time i've said it but: just because I am on your land does not mean im trespassing. There have been members on here take this law to court and win every time because the landowner could not prove they were notified the property was private. Furthermore the arresting/issuing officer should ask the landowner to show proof of notification before an arrest/ticket is made. Problem is 90% of the time Deputity Dick immediately sides with Farmer Billy Bob and throws "your average innocent angler Joe" in the slammer. After numerous court appearances and an expensive laywer innocent angler Joe often walks because he shouldn't have been cited/arrested in the first place, this happens ALL THE TIME and it really ticks me off.


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## Bassnpro1

Mason52 said:


> The old saying that ignorance is no excuse to the law comes into play here, IMO
> 
> acklac7, to use your thinking about the law if I don't have a no trespassing sign on my property someone should be able to come on my land and hunt if he chooses to do so, not so. Salmonid is right that you don't have to post your property for it to be private.
> Someone does indeed own everything. I live in an area that has lots of wooded property with almost no signs anywhere but, people seem to be able to figure out that someone owns it and they need permission to go onto it.
> I have always thought that we should have an easement on stream and river system areas, where applicable, but that's not the case.



EXCEPT that to criminal trespass you must *knowingly* be on someone's land. That is how the law reads, it has been posted on this thread. And acklac7 has said numerous times that it does not have to be posted, but you must be notified that you are on private property. This notification can be presented in many different ways including a fence, tree line, maintained lawn, signs, gravel road, etc. 


So in the case of criminal trespass, as defined by the ORC, as the law is written, ignorance is not a excuse, it a defense.


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## rsolinski

Just one of the many things f'up about this state..I have lived many places and in almost every one the state owned all streams AND stream beds preserving the rights of commerce (fishing, transportation of goods) for all citizens. This also paved the way for states to implement conservation or water control projects without nuisance lawsuits from
"overly concerned", anti-social landowners.


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## Solomon

fvogel67 said:


> Seven Mile Creek just outside of Collinsville is notorious for land owners running off wading fisherman,Last year we were run off by a land owner who was not all that happy we were wading up the creek.He made it known we were not welcome and not to come back.


Yep. I'm guessing you might have run into Mr. Earnest Goos. Some real good water through there, but really not enough to float continuous. 

My current project is to compile a list of landowners on four mile and seven mile via the county auditor site, and rifle off permission requests + the standard DNR permission form via the mail. I'll go knocking on doors after that looking for permission.


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## Big James

Just because you cannot legally be prosecuted for something does not make it acceptable behavior. It's people with that mindset that cause landowners to overreact to people who may have made a honest mistake. It's a complete lack of respect for people's property, privacy and the law!


Relax! It's just fishing.


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## Mean Morone

when I was a kid my brother and I used to wade a small creek in SW Ohio. It was so small that you could almost jump across it in places. One day we parked in a new spot near a bridge and waded in the creek fishing for smallies. We had done this many times and have never had any problems until this last time next to the new bridge. We fished for several hours and then walked on the road back to the car. Sure enough there is a sheriff standing next to my brothers car with the registration in his had. He had broken in to the car to find out who the owner was. He asked me what my name was and who owned the car. We told him then he handed the registration to my brother and let us go. He said someone had called about an abandoned car. He didn't say anything about trespassing. I haven't fished that creek since because I just don't want to be hassled. As far as wading goes, I always thought as long as you were in the water you were fine. Now I've changed that to as long as you are ON the water you are fine. And then I changed that to as long as you dont fish at all you will be fine. Just because a law protects you from fines or punishment of some kind, doenst mean you wont get harassed. I havent waded that creek in 35 yrs. because of that one run it with the law. That guy scared me near half to death.


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## Kisto

I have a question.... I fish Indian Creek quite a bit and have since I was a little kid and its too small to float so I obviously walk it which means I am trespassing the whole time I assume... I never litter nor do I keep any fish I just enjoy wading down the creek and catching smallies... If you owned that property would you run me off or let me keep wading on down and fishing? I usually don't sit in one place too long anyway so I would be through there in a matter of minutes.... Just curious from a landowners perspective


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## treytd32

I'd most likely come talk to you.. or if you saw me I'd want you to talk to me. If you tried to hide or avoid me then I'd ask you to leave, partially out of courtesy and suspicion why you would avoid me, but if your polite and I don't see a stringer or a 6 pack of beer with you (bc beer cans seem to find there way into creeks but not out) I'd let you go about your business..if I started seeing trash around though I don't think I'd continue to let people pass through.


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## rcjohnson

Solomon said:


> Yep. I'm guessing you might have run into Mr. Earnest Goos. Some real good water through there, but really not enough to float continuous.
> 
> My current project is to compile a list of landowners on four mile and seven mile via the county auditor site, and rifle off permission requests + the standard DNR permission form via the mail. I'll go knocking on doors after that looking for permission.


Mrs. Goos is worse than Ernie!


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## ostbucks98

Why did a sheriff have to break into a car to find out who the owner was?


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## Kisto

treytd32 said:


> I'd most likely come talk to you.. or if you saw me I'd want you to talk to me. If you tried to hide or avoid me then I'd ask you to leave, partially out of courtesy and suspicion why you would avoid me, but if your polite and I don't see a stringer or a 6 pack of beer with you (bc beer cans seem to find there way into creeks but not out) I'd let you go about your business..if I started seeing trash around though I don't think I'd continue to let people pass through.


Yea I would definitely come talk to whoever it was.... I am respectful and polite and I don't drink beer when I am creek fishing.... Some people just make it sound like if they hear someone in the creek behind their house they're coming down with their guns drawn and yelling at whoever it is and I was just thinking that's a bit excessive if you came at me that way I don't quite know how I would handle that situation considering I wasn't bothering anyone in the first place....


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## Mean Morone

I thought that law officials couldn't go in to a car unless they had just cause(they can see that there is someone that is either sick, injured or dead). Dont they need a search warrent? The car was empty. They had plenty of time to do the necessary checks without breaking in to the car. But they are law officials. The judge will side with them most of the time. 

I only fish one stream now only because I have never been harassed by anyone and rarely see anyone fishing there. I've fished there for 35 yrs with no problems. I fished it yesterday matter of fact.


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## Snakecharmer

ostbucks98 said:


> Why did a sheriff have to break into a car to find out who the owner was?


Unlees the vehicle didn't have plates, he should have run the plates to find the owner.


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## backlashed

rsolinski said:


> ....without nuisance lawsuits from
> "overly concerned", anti-social landowners.



Like everything else it's people that don't respect other peoples property that cause the issues. You've all heard stories about 'hunters' cutting fences. I've got issues with people cutting down my trees for firewood and cutting through the back of my lot for their convenience. I've got a local guy setting fish traps for bait on my property. They all walk past my signs but I deal with it myself. My neighbor carries a handgun with him he so concerned (insert eye roll).

The laws are there for property owners protection, not your convenience.


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## CO_Trout

It all comes down to one type of thinking. "It's All About ME".

Most just don't care how or what effect their behavior has on others or their property. They are just thinking about themselves. They do not care if they are on land that is privately owned or public land. They are ONLY thinking how they can benefit from what is to be around (fishing, hunting, cutting trees, or leaving their trash behind).


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## [email protected]

Salmoniod and Big James I'm with you.

With all the negativity surrounding these "landowners" you may consider that many of these evil landowners families owned the land that these waters flow through before the state of Ohio existed and then consider what right the state or people of that state's rights to the use of that property should be. I say be happy that you even have the right to float and fish these sections at all.

Local laws, like state laws are there for a reason and were most likely made effective by the people they effect most. Saying that state law is enough is like saying that federal law is enough and we shouldn't have both.


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## WishinIwasFishin

rsolinski said:


> Just one of the many things f'up about this state..I have lived many places and in almost every one the state owned all streams AND stream beds preserving the rights of commerce (fishing, transportation of goods) for all citizens. This also paved the way for states to implement conservation or water control projects without nuisance lawsuits from
> "overly concerned", anti-social landowners.


I agree. Both extremes (overzealous landowners/disrespectful visitors) are wrong and are the problem. 
I grew up on a creek and we never considered it "ours" - just the the banks around it. 

I would also like to mention - didn't the Native Americans not even consider that land and streams could be "owned?"

I would like to know who owns the fish?


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## WishinIwasFishin

Backlash
These trespassers are messing with/crossing your land. That is wrong. I still believe that the streams should be for all to enjoy. The guy setting the bait traps should have asked, but I doubt that really causes you any problems. Cutting trees, fences, etc - completely unacceptable behavior that should be reported and dealt with. I can now see your frustration. I just think that a respectful person who would like to wade, boat, fish and enjoy nature along a river should be able to enjoy the experience as long as they aren't stepping on the toes of other's. (I first typed average instead of respectful - but I realize the average person doesn't seem to be worth a crap).When I wade or kayak through I do my best to be quiet and noninvasive by not eyeballing a person's residence or disturbing them in any way. I wave if they look over, but that is it. Up here in my neck of the woods I have never heard of a problem with any of this. Maybe there are different opinions/ways of thinking in different places around our state. This probably explains my stance on this subject. It was the same when I was the land owner and now when I am the fisherman.

It's all about the balance of our rights and the rights of others.

This seems appropriate:

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." 
- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes


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## I'll go in after it

Be glad we are not talking about shore fishing along the great lake's or the ocean . People really freak out then to the point of fighting etc. Even if you are respectful . Hawaii was the worst for me .


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## chadwimc

Mean Morone said:


> We fished for several hours and then walked on the road back to the car. Sure enough there is a sheriff standing next to my brothers car with the registration in his had. He had broken in to the car to find out who the owner was. .



"broken in"??? As in busted a window? Jimmied the lock? Jaws of life?

Enquiring minds want to know...


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## FISNFOOL

WishinIwasFishin said:


> Backlash
> 
> It's all about the balance of our rights and the rights of others.
> 
> This seems appropriate:
> 
> "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
> - Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes


Except that you do not have *a right* to be an another persons property without their permission. Floating OK, wading NO. 

General question for the thread: 

With all the places to fish in this state, why do some feel it is necessary to do so on property you do not own? After all, it is just sport fishing, not survival. If you think about it, we have all paid taxes to give the public a place to fish other than our property.


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## I'll go in after it

What is the law about river's and creek's ? Is it the water itself or the medium water mark or what ? At the ocean I think they use the high tide mark


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## NLC25

I think Michigan's law are the exact opposite of Ohio's. Anyone can wade a stream/river so long as you are in the water. You are even allowed to go onto someone's property but only to get around an obstacle (i.e. a log or whatnot).


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## Solomon

rcjohnson said:


> Mrs. Goos is worse than Ernie!


Haha...true. My wife and I were waded a bit too far downstream toward the bridge once and she stood on the bridge waving us out of there. She is something else. Shame, too. Some nice holes back there. They wouldn't even consider giving us permission with a nice letter and references, etc. Not happening.


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## Walter Adkins

Torn on this issue. I understand why land owners feel the way they do. I also understand why guys/gals out to catch some relaxing time feel the way they do. I am pretty sure that Ohio and New York are the only two states with this law. Most states have it that the land owner owns the river floor to the end of his property but they do not own the top of the bed because it is always moving. This law was not always ruled the way it is today. But it is what it is. 
You can look back on some of my old post and you will see one that has emails from the state about this matter. The state even sent me different responses until the person in charge chimmed in. 
Every year there are post started on this very subject. The fact that I love to wade fish made me do the research into this law. Plenty of time talking with state officials about this matter. It all comes down too you know that you need a permit to fish on someones river bed. And no you cannot blame the land owner for not posting the land. It is not your land so someone must own it and you need to find that person and ask for permission. As for walking off of public land you do not have an excuse. You are responsible for knowing the boundaries of the park. Being lazy will not go far with a mad land owner.
Simply put; Private land: You have one defense against the claim of trespassing. You did not know that this was private land. You will be required to inform the court what the name of the public land you were on. When you cannot give the name then the court/state will ask if you own the land. Your answer will have to be no. Then the court will assume that you are smart enough to figure out that if you do not own the land and the state does not own it then it must be private. One does not have to post property to keep you off. Just prove you knew it was not public and you lose.

Public land: is not as open as you may think. Take John Bryant state park in Greene County. There is a stream sign on the river stating no wading. Ok but I want to wade fish. The park workers take the no wading as a sign that I cannot wade fish. But that is not the case, I am in my rite to wade fish. Have a letter on the visor of my truck from the state stating that I have that rite, just for cases where I might have to prove this law to a officer. And I have had to do it there and other water ways. the officer has always responded by saying he/she did not know that was the law. I will let you know that not all public water ways are equal. The LMR has a good bit of unmarked and marked public water ways. But there are sections of it like most rivers that are public but off limits. Usually these areas will be preserves. Clifton Gorge on the LMR is one of these areas but the park is not. Go into one of these areas and you will wish you were on someones private land.


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## splerkus

acklac7 said:


> Wrong.
> 
> You have to somehow be _*NOTIFIED*_ the land is private in order to technically be trespassing. If you have not been notified you are not in violation of the law.


You don't have to be notified by a sign. Ohio trespassing laws state it is just the difference of criminal trespassing and civil trespassing. If you are knowingly trespassing then that is criminal trespassing, if you don't know you are then that is civil trespassing.


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## chadwimc

Here's *MY* definition of "knowingly" trespassing on my property...

Is it your property? No?

Then you are "knowingly" trespassing.


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## tunnelofD

Doesn't every river and creek guy knowingly trespass? This is an old thread that has been returned from the dead. It should of stayed dead.:banghead:

Sent from my XT603 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## beaver

we all are notified as responsible sportsmen. It's called a plat book or county auditors website. Has every parcel of land and who owns it. Check before you go. If you don't want to put the work in to do the right thing by asking, either fish public posted land with everyone else or you deserve to get a ticket.


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## MassillonBuckeye

beaver said:


> we all are notified as responsible sportsmen. It's called a plat book or county auditors website. Has every parcel of land and who owns it. Check before you go. If you don't want to put the work in to do the right thing by asking, either fish public posted land with everyone else or you deserve to get a ticket.


That's about the crux of it ain't it? All this backyard lawyering drives me batty! These threads always happen. I'd like to see a sticky at some point. What to put in that sticky though?! Hmm.


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## jarhead70usmc

think about it this way the state of ohio dot holds rights for 25 foot of right of way from the center line on all roads except for major high ways IE I 70 , 71, 75 and etc you should be able to access a bridge like the sheriff said and fish without getting on pvt property


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## GarrettMyers

I'm sure Mr. Walter Adkins has been on pins and needles for almost 3 years waiting for a response.


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## tunnelofD

I heard osg walks on water so he is never trespassing.

Sent from my XT603 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## buckeyebowman

The thing about it is, "trespass" is a word with a very broad definition. Let's say I do everything right, I ask the landowner(s) to walk down their creek or hunt their land and get the official permission slip signed all nice and legal. Guess what? When I am on someone else's land I am *trespassing* permission slip or not! In this case I am trespassing *with permission*, thus I am within my legal rights to do so. 

acklac tried to make the point that as long as he was not knowingly trespassing he had the right to be there. WRONG!! All he has the right to do is leave once informed of his trespass. Here's where it can get sticky in case an overzealous LEO tries to prevent that. However, as someone else pointed out, everything is owned by somebody. If you're not on public land or water, you are on private land or water!


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