# Feeling like a newbie



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm not a newbie when it comes to depth finders. But I am a newbie, or will be a newbie, when it comes to depth finders with two operating frequencies. So I've got a few questions that I hope some of the sonar whiz's that I've seen post in this forum, can help me with. 

I'm planning on buying a new unit for my boat. I currently have a Lowrance LMS 522C iGPS at the console that I plan on moving to the front deck to replace the old Eagle 320 FishMark that I have there now. The Eagle still works well, I just want an upgrade at the console, and GPS on the front deck. The unit I plan on buying will be the HDS5 Gen2, with a 83/200 kHz transducer, and Structure Scan. 

My first question is ... being a dual frequency unit, I assume I will have the choice of which frequency is being used and displayed on the screen. Am I correct in this assumption? 

Secondly ..... Can both frequencies be used, and their returns be displayed on the unit at the same time, using a split screen mode?


Also, while researching different units and reading the NMEA 2000 networking sticky at the top of this forums thread list, which is awesome BTW, I've come to believe that with the addition of an Ethernet cable between the two units, (my LMS unit does have an Ethernet port) I can view the sonar display from the HDS unit I plan on purchasing, on the LMS unit. That is something I'd LOVE to have the capability to do.

My question is ...do I need to purchase and install the entire NMEA 2000 network along with the Ethernet cable to have this capability, or do I only need to buy the Ethernet cable and connect the two units? 

I have a lot more questions but as I see I am going long here, I'll have to ask them in the future.

Thank you in advance for any information you guys can provide me. It will be much appreciated


----------



## wallyandre (Nov 5, 2012)

You can use both frequencies individually or both at the same time on a split screen

You can share sonar by ethernet and waypoints. The waypoints that you already have on the lms won't transfer by cable you need to copy them on a sd card and import them in the new HDS unit; but the new waypoint create on 1 unit will be transferring to the other unit but both need to be power on. If you were using 2 HDS they don't need to be power on.

ps: don't use a sd card larger then 2GB in you're lms


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Thanks for the response Wallyandre ..... I had kind of figured I'd be able to choose which operating frequency was being displayed, it's good to know that both frequencies can be displayed at the same time. And thanks for the tip about sharing waypoints, and the SD card limits for the LMS unit.

I'm hoping to hear from someone concerning my question about what's required to view what the HDS unit's transducer is reading, on the LMS unit that will be up front. I realize what I'd be seeing on the front unit's display won't be what actually underneath me while on the front deck, I'm just thinking about having the ability to view structure scan images while at the trolling motor. I'm thinking that could come in very handy.

I mentioned that I had other questions, so I'll ask another one. 

Knowing that a larger screen would make viewing side imaging and let's say ..... standard 2D sonar returns in split windows, much easier viewing on a larger screen. My concern is that the LMS unit has a 5" screen, and if I were to try to view a split screen image coming from an HDS7 (that's about as large as I could comfortably go at the console) that it would either automatically crop the display, or compress it to a point to where it would become unintelligible. If in fact it would work at all? 

Does anyone know the answer to this?

Again .... thank you Wallyandre for your response. It is much appreciated.


----------



## wallyandre (Nov 5, 2012)

You will use the SS box as a hub. SS transducer plug in the SS box, 1 Ethernet from the box to the HDS and another Ethernet cable from the SS box to the LMS at the bow. On you're LMS you will have to select Global and on the HDS it's going to be Local

5" is kind of small for multiple views.


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

I currently have both HDS 7 & 8. I have Gen 1
I have the 2 at the front and my normal screen I use is split 2d and chart.
If I were to split it 3 ways 2d front & back plus DI or SI, the top half of the screen would be split with the 2d's and the bottom half of the screen would be DI or SI.
Both of the 2d screens would just be pretty small. 
I do believe you have the ability to change your configuration or viewing size. Nothing will be cropped from your view, it will just be minimized.
I hope that answered your question.

I will say it would be a rare day that I would want to see more than 2 views on any 1 screen so going to 3 views would probably be rare.
One thing I like to do is turn my HDS 7 screen to chart and if I remove my front seat I can see that unit from the console just fine. Then while I'm driving the boat from the console I watch my waypoints on my front unit and watch for structure on my HDS 8 at the console as I approach my spot. It is very effective for finding my spots.


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Wally, thanks again for your additional reply. You wouldn't happen to be running a similar LMS, HDS unit combination, would you? Perhaps not the same models, but the same combination of the two unit types? The reason I ask ... I understand what you're saying as far as using the SS module as a hub between the two units. Here's my concern, and the reason I asked if you were running an LMS HDS combination of units. 

If I'm correct about how the Ethernet routing you described, will function. Signals from the SS transducer will be sent directly to the LMS unit. I'm wondering if there may be a software difference between the two units, that would prohibit the LMS unit from properly displaying side imaging signals. I also have concerns as to whether the processor speed of the LMS unit would be sufficient enough to process the additional data that would be coming from the SS transducer. 

I hope it doesn't appear as if I am searching for the easy way out by asking these kind of questions. I've read my LMS units operators manual as well as a PDF version of an HDS units operators manual. While they're helpful, they're not very helpful when it comes to the type of questions I'm asking. I know I could just call Lowrance, but if possible I prefer to get information from those with hands on experience. Once again, thank you for the time you've taken in answering my questions. I truly appreciate it. 

Crappiedude ... I'm not sure if the first part of your reply answers my question concerning two different sized screens. Actually, now I'm feeling rather stupid for even asking the question that I did, as I had a revelation while trying to rephrase the question I was asking. lol 

In my mind, connecting the two units with an Ethernet cable and configuring the units properly, would essentially turn my front unit into nothing more than a display monitor for the HDS I plan on installing at the console. My revelation was, that of course it wouldn't crop the images, as it would be the same thing as connecting a smaller monitor to my home computer. It's still going to show the same information. Just on a smaller display. I'm sure you can see why I feel stupid for not thinking of that in the first place.  lol 

As to the second part of your reply about using the two units in different modes. That's pretty darn innovative. I wouldn't have thought of that as a way of freeing up screen space. If the two units were at the same location, yes. But with them being at different locations? No ... definitely not. Thank you for sharing.

Well .... I still have more questions that only a call to Lowrance may be able to answer.

Wallyandre, and Crappiedude. Thank you very much for your replies. They are very much appreciated. I hope I can return the favor some day.


----------



## wallyandre (Nov 5, 2012)

*My bad:* You can't get structure scan view between a LCX or a LMS, only between 2 HDS

The reason I mention about connecting to the LSS box is this: on the back of you're HDS you have only 1 ethernet port and you need to use that port to plug you're stucture scan. On the structure scan you have 3 ethernet ports et 1 receiver for the structure scan transducer.

Another solution will be to sale you're LMS and buy a Elite 5 or 7 HDI; that way you will get a regular 2D and downscan on you're electric motor seing exactly what is under you're TM.


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

wallyandre said:


> *My bad:* You can't get structure scan view between a LCX or a LMS, only between 2 HDS
> 
> The reason I mention about connecting to the LSS box is this: on the back of you're HDS you have only 1 ethernet port and you need to use that port to plug you're stucture scan. On the structure scan you have 3 ethernet ports et 1 receiver for the structure scan transducer.


Wallyandre ... not your bad at all. I wasn't sure if what I was proposing to do was all that clear as I was typing it. As far as the portion of your post I quoted. That pretty much clears up any other questions I could possibly have.

I had assumed that the SS module would connect to the unit using the same input port that a standard transducer would, and that I could simply use an Ethernet connection between the two units. 

Once again I really appreciate you taking the time to help educate me. It is very much appreciated.


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Bassbme said:


> I had assumed that the SS module would connect to the unit using the same input port that a standard transducer would, and that I could simply use an Ethernet connection between the two units.


There are 4 ports on the back of a HDS unit (gen 1)
Power
Transducer - 2d 83/200
Ethernet - from LSS. DI/SI ducer plugs into LSS
NMEA 2K

One thing to note about adding an HDS unit is the extra battery capacity it will use. You will use power for the HDS unit AND the LSS unit plus the LMS unit. 
I never noticed much of a battery drain before going to the hds units but having these 3 units running all day along with the livewell pump and an occasional bilge pump can take it's toll. I notice when I start my OB that the HDS will shut off due to voltage drop. The battery is almost 3 years old and the units never shut off the 1st 2 years so I'm going to change the battery out next spring and hope it solve the problem. I know there are some fixes for this but I need to do some research to figure it out. When I add the hds units I went from a 24 series battery to a 29 series. 
Do let that discourage you any...I love these HDS units.


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Crappiedude, you've pointed out yet another thing I hadn't considered. I'm currently running a deep cycle 24 series battery as my cranking battery. All of my accessories run off that one battery. In the past I had the same problem you mentioned about your main unit shutting off as a result of voltage drop. My problem proved to be excess amperage being drawn by the starter. Since I replaced the starter, I haven't had that problem. The addition of the LSS module may change that though. It's definitely something I'll keep an eye on. And if that problem shows its head, I'll know the first place I'll look, to fix it. Thank you for the heads up. 

See ... this is why I earlier said that I prefer getting information from those with hands on experience. Manuals are great for familiarizing yourself with the unit, but they're nothing when it comes to real world experience. The replies you and Wallyandre have been giving me, have proved to be invaluable. I can't thank you guys enough.

For instance ... after Wallyandre told me about the LSS module, and SS transducer to module being Ethernet connections, I went back and looked through the PDF version of the HDS manual again. I thought maybe I had missed something that would have answered my questions, before I asked. While radar is mentioned as an addable option, there is no mention of Structure Scan as being one. 

The title I chose for this thread, is even more fitting than I thought it would be. While my assumption about the dual frequencies proved to be correct. My assumptions about Structure Scan have been completely wrong, and bring up a new question. 

Instead of a question, let me phrase it as if one of my bigger assumptions, is wrong. 

Let me guess ...... instead of the Structure Scan transducer supplying side scan, down imaging, and 2D imaging, all from the one transducer, I'm going to have to install a separate transducer to handle the 2D imaging, as well?

I guess what I'm asking is .... what sonar imaging does the Structure Scan transducer supply? All 3? Just side scan and down imaging? Or just side scan? 

Man ..... I know there are guys I fish tournaments with, that have side imaging units. I wish I would have paid more attention to the transoms of their boats. My question would probably have already been answered. 

And once again I find myself thanking you guys for taking the time to provide answers. 

I love this web site !!!


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Here ya go



The big transducer on the left is from the LSS1. It gives you the DI/SI imaging and the cable plugs directly into the LSS1.
The smaller transducer is the std 2d 83/200 transducer. It plugs directly into the back of the HDS unit.
I think the Gen 2 set-up is the same as Gen 1.
I believe the Touch units share all the info through a single transducer.
I have an old tracker and I don't worry too much about adding transducers to my transom. Some guys don't want the extra holes so instead of punching holes in the hull you can add a transducer mounting plate to mount everything to.
Just as a side note, I have another 2d transducer added to my TM in the front of my boat. On either hds unit I can look at either transducer from either location since all the info is shared between all units via LSS1 & Ethernet cables. 

One cool thing about HDS with this configuration of these transducers on the rear is you can overlay the 2d over the DI. I don't do it often but some guys really like it.

On my front unit I like this



I use the 2d from my TM so I can see what is under me and I use DI off the rear of the boat so I can see what's back there. I especially like this when fishing drop-offs.
I hope this helps.

Thanks for the info about the starter. I'm going to have to check that out since my starter is 20 years old.


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Crappiedude ... thanks for posting the picture of your transducer layout. Since all of my other assumptions about the workings and routing of Structure Scan components were wrong, I had figured my assumption about the LSS transducer was wrong, too. And it was. lol As far as mounting another transducer goes ... I won't mind adding what appears to be to be only 3 more holes for the LSS transducer. They're not hard to seal, and more than worth it, considering the benefits that Structure Scan provide.

Also, I like the example of displaying front and rear transducer signals on one unit. As you said, I'm sure it comes in extremely handy when fishing a drop off. Especially when trying to fish parallel with it. Earlier you offered a suggestion of selling the LMS unit and just going with 2 HDS units. Seeing and hearing what you're able to do with them, it's definitely something I'll end up doing in the future. For now, the financial aspect has me pretty much committed to the LMS and HDS combo. 

BTW? I've only ever had 2D sonar, as a result I've gotten pretty good at being able to tell what I'm looking at on it. How does the down imaging compare? From the split screen picture you posted, it looks quite a bit more detailed. But that detail comes at the price of smaller bottom coverage. I guess what I'm asking is .... if you had to choose which type of sonar images you'd rather view on the entire screen. Which would you choose?

Anyhow...... going long once again. Thanks Crappiedude, you've been very helpful.

You too Wallyandre


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Bassbme said:


> BTW? I've only ever had 2D sonar, as a result I've gotten pretty good at being able to tell what I'm looking at on it. How does the down imaging compare? From the split screen picture you posted, it looks quite a bit more detailed. But that detail comes at the price of smaller bottom coverage. *I guess what I'm asking is .... if you had to choose which type of sonar images you'd rather view on the entire screen. Which would you choose?
> *


The answer is really easy. 
I think the best unit to use is the unit you have CONFIDENCE IN and I might add it should also have GPS.
Back many moons ago, probably mid 70's I bought a really cheap Ray Jefferson flasher complete with suction cup transducer bracket, by todays standards it was junk. A few years later I upgraded to an Eagle Silent 60 (again a flasher but better) and I actually used that Silent 60 until I put the HDS Unit on the boat.
After that came a few Birds and then I went back to a Low LCX15mt and now the HDS units.
I guess my point is I caught fish with all of them. The HDS units are the 1st units I've had GPS on and I will say I'm a real fan of that GPS once I got used to it. I used to use a Garmin E-trex for GPS before getting the HDS units and again I adapted it to my style of fishing and it worked just fine.
When I had that old flasher in my boat almost everyone who fished with me asked me how I knew what I was looking at. I could spot fish, stumps, drop-offs, rock ect. (it just took practice)

On my front unit I almost always have that screen on regular 2d sonar because I want to see what is under ME. Since I'm running the boat I already have a good idea of what's behind me. 
On my console unit I almost always have that unit on DI. It's not for me when I'm fishing but I leave it on DI for whom ever I'm fishing with since it's easier for them to read.

All the options have different purposes for me.
For fishing 2D sonar is fine
For searching I like SI, DI & GPS. Like this.


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Nice Crappiedude. Looks like some flooded timber on that screen. Very cool. The detail as a result of the higher operating frequencies is amazing. I can see why someone that may be less experienced in reading sonar, would be more comfortable reading a down imaging display. 

I think for me, I would find it more useful for dissecting a spot, than I would for actually locating a spot, simply because of the difference in bottom coverage between DI and 2D modes. As you said, confidence in being able to interpret what the display is showing, is really the key. 

Well .... you and Wallyandre have pretty much straightened me out when it comes to the questions I had about running an LMS, HDS unit combo. Very informative and eye opening, thank you guys very much. 

Now the only decision I have left is which size unit to get. I'm leaning towards the HDS5 because both of the units I have now, have 5" screens, and their size fits perfectly in the areas I have available to mount them. 

That, and armed with the tip of running the front unit in full chart mode, I'll be able to use the console unit's full screen for the very reason I'm buying a new unit in the first place. Finding new spots with Structure Scan .....


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Bassbme said:


> *Now the only decision I have left is which size unit to get*. I'm leaning towards the HDS5 because both of the units I have now, have 5" screens, and their size fits perfectly in the areas I have available to mount them.
> 
> That, and armed with the tip of running the front unit in full chart mode, I'll be able to use the console unit's full screen for the very reason I'm buying a new unit in the first place. Finding new spots with Structure Scan .....


I had to give that question a lot of thought when I bought my stuff also. The units are just so expensive it was hard to justify all that money and I do okay but I'm not what you would call rich. My wife was no help when I brought up upgrading the electronics....she said she didn't care what I bought. She said go buy 2 HDS 10's if I want them.
The sites I visit the most are OGF and crappie.com (c.c) I will say that to a person virtually everyone advised me to get the biggest screen I could afford even if I had to save a little longer. It was good advice. Side scan gets real small trying to look at 60' (30'R/30'L)of info on a 5" screen. 
If the 5 is really all you can swing, I say go for it.
My fishing partner bought a new to him boat last year. He needed some new electronics so he looked around for a used HDS unit. He bought a HDS8 Gen1 with the LSS1 for about half of what I paid for mine. (just a thought)
If you're patient you can find some deals...they are out there. Lots of bass/crappie guys are updating electronics all the time, maybe check with some of the guys you fish with.
Good luck with it.


----------



## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Crappiedude, I definitely agree with you when you advise saving a little longer until you can afford what you really want. I'm actually pretty good at that, as over the years I've come to learn that spending money on what you really want, saves you money because you don't have to replace it a few years later, with what you should have just waited a little longer to buy, anyhow. 

Mine is really more about available space, than anything else. Plus ..... I have a plan for the future in mind. 

In an earlier post I mentioned how I would love to be able to view structure scan imaging on my front unit. Actually, it was my reason behind questions about connecting an LMS and HDS unit. I'm sure you can see where I am going now. lol 

HDS5 to the front deck where I have no room at all for a larger unit. New HDS7 or 8 at the console. Add an Ethernet cable ...... 


all in all it's just a ... nother brick in the wall ...... 

lol See ya in the threads kind sir. And thanks again for all your help. It is VERY much appreciated.


----------

