# I am the backlash King!



## Photog (Jun 18, 2010)

OK, so I know the baitcaster reel I have is a cheap Shakespeare model. I have braid on it and as I cast sometimes the lure just gets stopped in midair and I end up with a back lash. I can "tighten" the reel so I don't get it as bad but that shortens my cast.
I VASTLY prefer spinning rigs but since I am wanting to muskie fish I have been told baitcasters are the way to go.

I think this may just be a case of "you get what you pay for", but wanted to know if there are any tips I can use.

Other question: Do you get more backlash from braid or mono? I know for muskie I need to use braid.

Thanks in advance,
Dave


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

pull out as much line as you would use on a long cast, then put a piece of electrical tape on the spool across the line. This will prevent bad backlashes and the tape will pull off if you have a big fish rip drag. This is a good way to learn to cast a baitcaster without picking out a backlash every cast.


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## Photog (Jun 18, 2010)

ironman172 said:


> I can't see why.....nothing wrong with spinning gear for them(muskie) in my opinion
> 
> I catch them all the time on spinning....and light weight spinning while trolling for saugeye ....just saying...most that I see at Alum fishing for them use salt water equipment in my opinion(maybe because of the huge lures they are pulling)....while I am fishing salt water catching king mackeral, we always use spinning....and muskie have nothing on a king for runs....150yards of drag right now....just saying
> 
> ...


I've been told by some that spinning doesn't bring them in fast enough.... Ironman, you may have saved me some frustration. Would love to hear some other opinions on spinning vs baitcaster....


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

What pound test braid are you using? Switch to 14# mono and a 5/8 oz weight to learn to cast with a baitcaster then try braid in at least 30#.
Also, check your PM's


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## Photog (Jun 18, 2010)

Shortdrift said:


> What pound test braid are you using? Switch to 14# mono and a 5/8 oz weight to learn to cast with a baitcaster then try braid in at least 30#.
> Also, check your PM's


If I remember right it is #30 and got the PM, thanks!


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## Photog (Jun 18, 2010)

ironman172 said:


> as you can see I do have a few bait caster that I will troll with..... if I do pull bigger baits for muskie....I have only caught one while doing that(actually fishing for them)...but casting for me = spinning....and I hate to cast....I guess a lazy fisherman and will let the boat motor do the work
> and that is the rod and reel the 46in was caught on


That an Ugly Stik? I bought my first one last summer (ULite) and will probably continue to buy them. I love that rod!


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## st.slippy (Oct 3, 2008)

You can find spinning with just as fast a retrieval speed as baitcast. I think a big part is the way the drags are set up. What people prefer and what will work is quite different. Don't like ugly sticks much though, but I know great fisherman who have great success with them


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

im another spinning guy myself, the only thing i use any other reel is for trolling. but i have even used baitrunner reels for trolling. then went to the linecounter reels when i started using divers.
sherman


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## Pigsticker (Oct 18, 2006)

Sounds like u need to tighten the internal brakes. When backlashing early in cast its brakes when at end of cast its the tendion knob. Ur probably right about getting what u pay for. Much easier to learn on higher quality reel. Get rid of the braid until ur good with the reel. Idk how u can afford to keep cutting out that expensive braid. Id use 20-25lb cheap mono. Easier to control because the thicker the line the slower the spool spins. Also if backlashed its much easier to pick out. And if all is lost its dirt cheap to replace. 

There's no fish in Ohio that requires a baitcaster. They catch 100+lbs tarpon on spinning reels and a muskie is nothing compared to their power. U very rarely get your line cut by their teeth when using a muskie lure because theyre big and don't fit completely in their mouths like a little twister tail would. Thats when u get cut off by their teeth when using small lures for other fish.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Photog said:


> OK, so I know the baitcaster reel I have is a cheap Shakespeare model. I have braid on it and as I cast sometimes the lure just gets stopped in midair and I end up with a back lash. I can "tighten" the reel so I don't get it as bad but that shortens my cast.
> I VASTLY prefer spinning rigs but since I am wanting to muskie fish I have been told baitcasters are the way to go.
> 
> I think this may just be a case of "you get what you pay for", but wanted to know if there are any tips I can use.
> ...


The braid is digging in to the spool. It has nothing to do with your reel. After you get a backlash, a snag or any other event that pulls the line really tight on the spool, pull a lot of line off. This should prevent the line dig in.


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## leeabu (Apr 10, 2004)

Yep! Also the line diameter may be too small. It can get between the spool and the side frame. 65 lb power pro is what I use when I use braid. It is the same diameter as 12 lb mono.


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## markfish (Nov 22, 2007)

let me ask you this do you have backer line on the reel then the braid,if not you need to,and every time you change lures you have to re,ajust,the reel i have 30lb,braid on all my bait casters, sounds like your spool is to loose,tighten the thumb knob a little at a time and the first few cast dont try to hit the moon with it,and like the otheres said i alwise pull so much out and tape it,but not with eletrical tape it not water proof i use a smale peace of duck tape,and a nother thing are you over head casting if so dont your better of side hand casting with your thumb touching the spool the same time, andheres how i adjust the spool push the trigger and release the lure to hit the bottom of the boat or you driveway and once it hit the ground the spool should stop if not its to loose and will over spool causeing a bird nest,try some of these tip and you will get the hang of it,then get a better one down the road,ball bering are what makes a reel mine are all 10 bering make for much better reels,just hope this has helped markfish


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## poloaman (Mar 26, 2008)

Just because there are 10 ball bearings doesn't mean u have a good reel. Ball bearings add weight and missed placed ball bearings do nothing for your reel. Properly placed bearings should reduce friction in loaded spots I have many Shimano stradics and I believe they are only 5 +1 and those are some bad a$$ reels a lot smother than other reels I've used with more bearings to be more specific pflueger supreme it has 10. Also if u don't believe me which is understandable there are great articles on the subject online and recently there was one in either bassmaster or nafc can't remember which one. Ball bearings numbers are used as a selling point just like contrast ratios on hd TV's 


Polo
Outdoor Hub mobile


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

poloaman said:


> Just because there are 10 ball bearings doesn't mean u have a good reel. Ball bearings add weight and missed placed ball bearings do nothing for your reel. Properly placed bearings should reduce friction in loaded spots I have many Shimano stradics and I believe they are only 5 +1 and those are some bad a$$ reels a lot smother than other reels I've used with more bearings to be more specific pflueger supreme it has 10. Also if u don't believe me which is understandable there are great articles on the subject online and recently there was one in either bassmaster or nafc can't remember which one. Ball bearings numbers are used as a selling point just like contrast ratios on hd TV's
> 
> Polo


As with everything you read online, take it with a grain of salt...especially if it is from Bassmasters. 

1. All other things being equal, a ball bearing is better for mechanical performance than the alternative - a bushing.
2. Most of the lightest baitcasting reels have 10+ bearings (Steez, MGX, TD-Z)...which means the weight impact is not that big a deal. You still have to fill the space with a bushing if there is no bearing.
3. Bearings do go bad, so there is increased maintenance. A bunch of cheap bearings will go bad faster than fewer cheap bearings just by probability. That's why better reels have better and more bearings. Some bushings aren't replaceable...so then what do you do when it wears too much? Teflon bushings (Teflon is self-lubricating) will deform under constant mechanical load.
4. "Smoothness" is very dependent on gear design and lubrication, handle design and frame bearing performance. The gear design is probably what you are feeling...and some folks like a more connected feel while others like a buttery smooth feel.


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

Bottom line bearings and stuff all hype test a few and pick what u like 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## poloaman (Mar 26, 2008)

Tokugawa said:


> As with everything you read online, take it with a grain of salt...especially if it is from Bassmasters.
> 
> 1. All other things being equal, a ball bearing is better for mechanical performance than the alternative - a bushing.
> 2. Most of the lightest baitcasting reels have 10+ bearings (Steez, MGX, TD-Z)...which means the weight impact is not that big a deal. You still have to fill the space with a bushing if there is no bearing.
> ...


I do agree that not everything is true but to say and base your reel purchase only on the amount of ball bearings is not the way to go like you said there are many types of them so you should base it on the type ie ceramic over stainless. Basically what I'm try to do is make sure that we are not teaching somebody possibly new to higher end reels that you should not just base it on a number but the quality of the bearings and most of all how it feels to the person using it not what everybody else likes 


Polo
Outdoor Hub mobile


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

poloaman said:


> I do agree that not everything is true but to say and base your reel purchase only on the amount of ball bearings is not the way to go like you said there are many types of them so you should base it on the type ie ceramic over stainless. Basically what I'm try to do is make sure that we are not teaching somebody possibly new to higher end reels that you should not just base it on a number but the quality of the bearings and most of all how it feels to the person using it not what everybody else likes
> 
> 
> Polo
> Outdoor Hub mobile


I agree. Sure more ball bearings are better if they are quality bearings and everything else is equal but when you compare cheap multi bearing reel to very expensive ones everything else isn't equal. Its just sales hype. The same as buying a megapixel digital camera. More pixels isn't always better.I have an old 5 megapixel camera that will take much better photos than a lot of the new 12 or 14 megapixel cameras


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Big Joshy said:


> pull out as much line as you would use on a long cast, then put a piece of electrical tape on the spool across the line. This will prevent bad backlashes and the tape will pull off if you have a big fish rip drag. This is a good way to learn to cast a baitcaster without picking out a backlash every cast.


This is an EXCELLENT tip! I just bought a new baitcaster and did this...it has allowed me to practice and learn without wanting to throw the reel in the Lake! Even the nests that I have gotten are easier and quicker to get out! There is another tip to thumb the spool (put pressure on the nest) and tighten the reel til it stops, then hit the bar and peel off line until you hit another part of the nest...thumb the spool and tighten again by cranking the spool until all of the nest is gone...these 2 tips were the reason I wanted to continue learning the baitcaster!


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## markfish (Nov 22, 2007)

Well they must be well worth it rell set me back 259.00 each and some are more than 10 years old,so i think i will stay with my way of thinking cause them reels got tons of casting miles on them and never let me down,now the guy ask abought back lash i was giveing a tip you buy junk you got junk,point made, i tried to help someone and there all wise some one that know it all ,good luch there backlash,you will find what works for you,out of here,markfish


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

poloaman said:


> I do agree that not everything is true but to say and base your reel purchase only on the amount of ball bearings is not the way to go like you said there are many types of them so you should base it on the type ie ceramic over stainless. Basically what I'm try to do is make sure that we are not teaching somebody possibly new to higher end reels that you should not just base it on a number but the quality of the bearings and most of all how it feels to the person using it not what everybody else likes
> 
> Polo


Going completely off topic now....

How do you know the quality of a bearing in a particular reel?


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## markfish (Nov 22, 2007)

from the back lash topic so donnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne


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## promag (Aug 21, 2011)

I learned how to use a baitcaster by loosen the drag enough to get the line out. Try to get the concept of when the bait stops and at what angle your rod position is. The idea is to stop or slow the lure before it hits the water. I learned on a abu Garcia round profile reel. The drag and brake are fully adjustable. Also you could use high temp grease in the bearing and as the viscosity breaks down the reel will cast a mile. Just a note. Anyway good luck as always and don't let the baitcaster keep you from enjoying your time on the water.

promag


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## poloaman (Mar 26, 2008)

Tokugawa by type of materials used in making the bearings which u can find in the specs plus you could always upgrade 

Markfish your ignorance is bliss u keep your way of thinking up. Maybe you can run for president and fill everybody heads with ur opinions and since there from you the only guy in the world who can spend 250 on a reel then they must be right for now on I will keep mine to myself thanks for ruining this site for me. By the way please learn how to spell or at least use spell check as for the rest please do your research when buying a reel bearings are good but only if there quality but just because one has eight and one has 10 that don't make it better 


Polo
Outdoor Hub mobile


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## LEJoe (Jun 27, 2006)

Photog, I believe that the easiest way to control your backlashes is to adjust your reel to the weight of the lure you are casting each time you change lures. This is kinda old school but it is simple to do and it works. Attach your lure to your line and engage the bar. It should fall about one foot per second. If it falls faster than that, tighten the spool knob alittle. If it is slower than that, back it off alittle. This will help to keep the spool from rotating faster than the lure can pull line off during a cast. Be ready to thumb the spool as the lure hits the water to stop it. Remember there is no one magic setting for everything. If you change something on your set up, say like lure weight, it is going to affect how your rig is going to work.


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## JSykes3 (Oct 14, 2010)

For some reason, no matter how heavy or light the lure is, I have the best luck casting with it all the way loose. I wouldn't try it if i were you though. I just use the momentum of the lure and use the right amount of force to get it where I want it, also try sidearm casting.


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

poloaman said:


> Tokugawa by type of materials used in making the bearings which u can find in the specs plus you could always upgrade
> 
> please do your research when buying a reel bearings are good but only if there quality but just because one has eight and one has 10 that don't make it better
> 
> Polo


So are you telling me that a ceramic bearing is better than a stainless steel bearing? Are you also saying that is all there is to it? Materials?


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

Tokugawa said:


> So are you telling me that a ceramic bearing is better than a stainless steel bearing? Are you also saying that is all there is to it? Materials?


I think what he is trying to say is just because a reel has a lot of ball bearings in it doesn't make it good. A lot of very good reels don't have that many bearings such as the calcutta b series that only has3 ball bearings . Theres a lot more that goes into a quality reel than ball bearings


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

robertj298 said:


> I think what he is trying to say is just because a reel has a lot of ball bearings in it doesn't make it good. A lot of very good reels don't have that many bearings such as the calcutta b series that only has3 ball bearings . Theres a lot more that goes into a quality reel than ball bearings


Let the guy answer for himself.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Wow, so much angry attitude in this thread already....
[/COLOR] 
For me, I prefer larger diameter line....12# + monofilament or HEAVY braid. I also adjust the reel for each lure...as another poster stated. If the lure hits the deck at the same time the spool stops spinning - perfect - until you get better with a baitcaster. I still use my thumb over the spool as well as a brake, and it has worked for me for as long as I can remember.

Number of bearings, I would venture to say, has nothing to do with backlashes. My main reels are Quantum Accurist 501PT - and they only have 5 bearings (Polymer-stainless hybrid 5 PT bearing system - whatever the heck that means). My other baitcasters? A Swedish made Abu and a Shimano Cardiff - and I don't know what is in them...

Get out there and practice in your back yard. You'll get better.... and for the record, there isn't much that can be done with a baitcaster that cannot be done with a spinning outfit.


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## poloaman (Mar 26, 2008)

I am not saying ceramic is better I am saying quality is better what it comes down to is tolerances allowed by manufactures. tight tolerances, lubrication, heat transfer and material used all play a part in the quality of a bearing and how well it will work for the application. The main thing I was trying to get across was that you can go buy a walmart special that has 10 bearings in it and that will not make it better the a more expensive reel that has say eight in it. The reason it's more expensive is due to the quality of the materials used 


Polo
Outdoor Hub mobile


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## ssv1761982 (Jun 2, 2004)

One thing not mentioned - the line must be wound snugly on the spool, otherwise it the line will pull into the spool causing problems. This and adjusting the friction like Mark and others have said should help. 




(Eye hoap mi spellin was KO for the kritikle guys)


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## Burks (Jun 22, 2011)

Little late but figured I'd throw my 2 cents in.

Myself and my friend both use spinning reels for muskie, and we've never had a problem. Mine is (was, I upgraded) a $20 Daiwa/Dick's special. I've landed a 48" muskie on it with no problem on #50 Spiderwire Braid. I felt confident with it. Hell, I landed my first three muskie on a $15 Daiwa/Dick's special...again......no problem. My friend uses some combo from Wal-Mart that he was using for catfish. I can honestly say, 110% sure, that we've never lost a fish due to rod/reel. Line......hook set.....split rings.....another story.

So to say you can't catch them quick enough with a spinning reel......blah.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

control in casting and versatility with line size is what makes the differences in spinning and baitcasting gear. there is alot of ignorance on this thread and some bad advice.

baitcasting gear is essential in alot of aspects. just because people are showing you and telling you that spinning gear can handle any size of fish doesnt mean its right for every situation. 

as for your backlash problem. the problem is the braid. its not the easiest line to learn on, it will stop itself midcast at random moments when you least expect it and its absolutely not necessary for catching musky. go get yourself some seaguar florocarbon and you wont have the problems your having with the braid. when you get the hang of your baitcaster, go back to the braid if the situation calls for it, its not a great line choice in most applications.



as for bearings and such. you get what you pay for. if its got 10 bearings in it and it cost $50, guess what? its still a $50 baitcaster. if you want quality you have to pay for it...


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## JSykes3 (Oct 14, 2010)

lordofthepunks said:


> there is alot of ignorance on this thread and some bad advice.


Haha, I would be one of them. 
Was just saying how I do best though, not advice.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

JSykes3 said:


> Haha, I would be one of them.
> Was just saying how I do best though, not advice.


i wasnt talking about your advice. i actually use my baitcaster with the break all the way loose as well but not all the time. its almost impossible to pitch a light jig with any breakage...


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

I read this and agree totally with what the guy who wrote it says. " There are often 6 "extra" ball bearings that drive the bearing count, and price up on many baitcasting reels, and these bearings are neither load-bearing, nor are they necessary for a smooth functioning reel. 2 of these bearings are typically at either end of the worm gear, which helps makes the line guide go back and forth, and the other 4 bearings are inside of your handle grips.

Shimano, having always been an industry leader with their baitcasters often do not use bearings in these locations, and other manufactures attempt to use this fact as a marketing gimmick, dropping a strong hint that their brand reels are higher quality because they use more bearings and yet cost no more than a particular Shimano model. 

Having more bearings in non load-bearing locations is not necessarily even a better thing. Using such reels for inshore saltwater fishing, for example, a little lack of lubrication may ruin a handle grip bearing necessitating replacement (same for the levelwind bearings), putting your reel out of commission: whereas a squeaky handle with bushings will be back in action after a quick shot of oil. Having done a lot of brackish and saltwater fishing, and the reel care that goes along with it, I'd much prefer to not have bearings in those locations. "


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## JSykes3 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yeah, same here lordofthepunks. I'm actually going to try heavier jigs and stuff this year, bought some from a friend. So maybe I'll actually have to use a little break here and there.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

photog,

Well how is your learning coming on casting?

By now you are probably an expert, ON BEARINGS! 

If your casting isn't doing any better I suggest you do what Josh posted with the tape early in this thread. That is how Josh learned many years ago. He spent hrs in our backyard casting. Start small and learn to make short casts and work up from there. The tape won't eliminate a backlash but it confines them to ONLY the amount line from the tape to the lure.

When my father got older and he wasn't quite able to do what he had done his entire life I put tape on his reels for fishing. Doesn't hurt fishibility at all and stops those bad backlashes. If he got a decent fish that pulled drag the line just pulls the tape out of the way.

Put tape on the spool, set the brakes to max, tighten the spool tension and start with short casts at home.

In no time you will be reducing spool tension, backing off on the brakes, casting like the pros in this thread and talking about how many bearings are in your reel.


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## dgatrell27 (Jan 10, 2012)

You get what you pay for, theres great shimanos and theres junk ones. Ive got 8 shimano curados and 1 is over 10yrs old. the rest are 3-5yrs old. cant beat a good reel, but like i said you get what you pay for. Not saying go buy 400 stez, but Id go middle way depending on the amount you fish. Buy it once and be done, or buy 5 that are junk and you will hate. Harder to cast and way harder to set corectly. I havent changed the settings on my curados in yrs, and theres been everything from 4in finess worms to musky plugs...


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## SMBHooker (Jan 3, 2008)

Great thread,

Anyone reading this thread that's hesitant about or sworn off bait-casters should read these posts. 

Few years back I purchased a bait-caster and returned it real fast.  Picked one up again last year and spent a small amount of time with it. But, it wasn't until this past winter we're coming out of that I spent time practicing with them. 

Implement some of these tips, all our OGF'ers have offered up and you'll soon be a real big proponent of these reels. 

I can't stress enough how much PRACTICING at home with these tips will help shorten the learning curve and bring about a greater appreciation for the bait-caster. 

It's surprisingly fun just practicing the mechanics and "reel" rewarding lol  when you become proficient . . . and then you realize the full potential bait-casters offer, such as accuracy. There's a lot to it, but the benefits are endless. I wish I would have had half the knowledge in this post before I returned my first bait-caster years ago!

Pick one up and practice . . . you'll love it soon enough. 

Plus they're just sweet fishing engineered beauties soo cool.  


Sent from . . . off and over there.


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## USMC_Galloway (May 13, 2011)

Another tip that I havent seen posted yet, and my only make since in my mind.... 

But make sure when you cast, you dont cast in a jerky sudden motion for long casts. Yeah ok its not making any since on here, but I will keep going lol. It seems if I take a more deliberate casting motion when I make longer casts and give time for the lure to get speed, I have a lot less backlash problems. I find this to be true the heavier the lure is too.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

i have 3 ambassadeur c3 reels i bought some 20 years ago.( these are just my preference)they are a matched set,3 rods and reels. they are awesome reels for the money, and very simple to use and maintain. one has braid and 2, mono. they are on lews 6' baitcast. here is a link to view them. ebay is a good place to look

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ABU-GARCIA-...pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256d7ee762ting rods


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## Photog (Jun 18, 2010)

Well.... I stuck with what I know and what I am comfortable with.
I picked up an Ugly Stik 7 foot M/H one piece spinning rod and a Pflueger President 6740. It has a retrieve of around 35" per revolution and let's face it.... I have been nothing but frustrated with the baitcaster and with coupons I picked up this rig for $70. I'm happy and it threw a double Colorado lure I made with ease.
I really appreciate all the feedback and will probably buy a baitcaster in the future, but with the warm winter I am just too itchin' to get fishin'!!!!


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

i never cared much for the ugly stick as it's like casting with a wet noodle.. then it hit me. i'm at bass pro in southern georgia, and i found a 5.5 spinning rod,med action.. i brought it home and stripped it to a blank. still had the price tag on it. i converted it to a 5.5 baitcaster, and i love it. i throw fairly hard and fast, and most baitcast rods have a tip action thats too heavy for the way i fish. now it's a (not-so-ugly) stick


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