# Subaru Outback AWD, must replace all 4 tires at once.......ugh!



## flyman01 (Jan 23, 2013)

My wife has a 2015 Outback, we replaced the tires in May of 2017 with 70K Pirelli tires and they have been performing great. Last night on her way home and with 30K on these tires, she hit something on the road and punctured the sidewall rendering one of the tire useless. We put on the spare, the only place open at that hour was Costco and they informed her that with Subaru, if there is more than 2/32 tread depth difference between a new tire and an current tire, then you must replace all 4 tires or it can destroy the transmission. I wish they would have told us that information when we were purchasing the vehicle  We held off purchasing tires last night, took the vehicle to Tire Discounters where these were purchased to see what they said about the situation. The current tires have 6-7/32 tread left on them, still in great shape but according to them as well, must be replaced; the hazard warranty covers some of the cost of the destroyed tire, they pro-rated it but she has to purchase 3 new ones at full price. Guess I should have punctured the other 3 as well...…. I am keeping the 3 tires and will sell on Craigslist or some other local site, anyone in need of 3 good Pirelli P225 65 R17 tires??? will sell them at a fair price.


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

Weird...thats ridiculous...no thanks on a subaru.


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## TDD11 (Aug 5, 2015)

What about buying a used tire with similar tread wear? Check ebay maybe?


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## M R DUCKS (Feb 20, 2010)

Not just Subaru.....any AWD !


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

I can't believe this is true! Did you check w/Suburu? I'm in a golf league with people who work at Goodyear HQ tonight. I'll ask some of them to comment.


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## Gottagofishn (Nov 18, 2009)

Looks like it is so.... ('Cause the internet don't lie)

Replacing tires on AWD
*Recap: why you need to replace all four AWD tires*

Mismatched *tires* are often a primary factor in drivetrain damage.
To minimize variances, always match *tires*: same brand, size and type.
The tread depth difference between front and rear *tires* should be no more than 3/32nds of an inch.
*But wait! there appears to be a solution!*
https://www.consumerreports.org/tir...-wheel-drive-car-no-replacing-all-four-tires/


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Gottagofishn said:


> Looks like it is so.... ('Cause the internet don't lie)
> 
> Replacing tires on AWD
> *Recap: why you need to replace all four AWD tires*
> ...


First time I've heard of shaving tires. Makes sense if you need to get another tire of the same radius I guess.....Would that be called a Brazilian Tire in the trade?


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## backfar (Sep 24, 2014)

This is very true with AWD vehicles... bought the wife a buick Rainer and run into the same issue...replaced 1 tire and it instantly started making growling noises, the stabilitrac was going crazy everytime you went to stop, steering was harder...drove it like this for 1 week until i finally learned it was the tires...i thought it was BS, but replaced the other 3 and instantly it steered better and no more noise...it would even act weird if 1 tire had 5 psi less air....so from my past experience, dont continue to drive it this way..


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## ApeShip (Apr 17, 2006)

Snakecharmer said:


> First time I've heard of shaving tires. Makes sense if you need to get another tire of the same radius I guess.....Would that be called a *Brazilian* Tire in the trade?


B I N G O


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

I wouldn't trade my Outback for anything at this point. I had an Audi Q5 for a year plus, have the ford flex, driven other AWD cars. Subaru is awesome in snow and slick surfaces.

But, Sometimes you just have to call bull$hit even on the manufacturers engineers. You mean to tell me with all the bumps in the road, the suspension knows the difference between 3/32" front and back tires. BS

I have 3 AWD vehicles a '12 outback, '11 ford flex and '17 impreza. on the outback and flex I have lost a tire. I replaced 2 tires at a time so the sides are equal. Been on them for 3 years plus and never had a problem. However, I do know Subaru recommends rotating tires not just front to back but also switching sides of 2 tires each time. At least that is what my manual says. So if you do this, that is why they recommend changing all 4 tires. I guess. Please don't tell them I have uneven tires and have no idea which ones are which now because they are the same brand and model and been rotated 4 or 5 times.

My ford manual is lost so I cannot see the recommended tire rotation.

Rickerd


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## backfar (Sep 24, 2014)

This was several years ago when i had the Rainier, at the time i found out that the tires where all the issues the car was having i also found that several customers had a lawsuit against GM for being in an accident because the Rainier would suddenly come to a stop when making a sharp turn...and yes the Rainier i had did this same thing making a sharp left turn,but thank the lord my wife didnt get into an accident because of this... that was the last AWD i will EVER own...for more reasons than just this. If this problem wouldnt have happened on a car i owned i wouldn't have never believed it...but it is what it is


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm glad you and your wife never had the trouble other ranier drivers may have had. I think I had a buddy that had one for 5 years or so, but not sure if it was AWD. 

But I have been told, the only "full time" AWD cars out there are subarus, land rovers, and jeeps. (maybe there is a porsce(?) Most of the AWD cars are really front wheel drive cars until it senses a wheel slipping. Totally different car reactions than full time AWD.
Rickerd


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

I've been driving Outbacks since 1998. All of them stickshifts. No buttons to push, the AWD is always on. As said above, they are awesome on snow or any slick surface. They're not rock crawlers or mud boggers, though.

There are different versions of the drivetrain across models and years. I'm used to open diffs front and rear, with a center diff that's like a torque converter in an automatic transmission. It just goes. 

Having different size tires is an issue because you're spinning the differentials all the time. Plus you don't get the normal handling. Subarus stick to the road like a blob of molasses.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

It's the nature of the beast with symetrical AWD vehicles.

Had the same happen with the 09 Outback we had. Nail right at the edge of the tire and Discount Tire couldn't do anything with it. Bought tires off of them and had the road hazard so they replaced tire at no charge to me. But same as you, other three tires had about 30,000 on them so I had to buy three new tires. What I ended up doing was getting three rims at a junk yard a friend of mine owns and mounting one of the old tires for a spare getting rid of the donut spare. The other two I put up and eventually worked all three into the tire rotation when the new tires got worn down.



rickerd said:


> I wouldn't trade my Outback for anything at this point. I had an Audi Q5 for a year plus, have the ford flex, driven other AWD cars. Subaru is awesome in snow and slick surfaces.
> 
> But, Sometimes you just have to call bull$hit even on the manufacturers engineers. You mean to tell me with all the bumps in the road, the suspension knows the difference between 3/32" front and back tires. BS
> 
> ...


It's not the bumps in the road, which aren't constant, that messes the transmission up. It's the constant higher rotational rpm one smaller tire/wheel will be turning versus the lower rotational rpm of the larger diameter tires/wheels for long periods of time that will mess up the trans.

Also, rotating the tires shouldn't always be done like manuals say if tires have been replaced with different tires than what came stock.
Example would be directional tires. If a set of directional tires are installed, these tires should be rotated from front to back...back to front. There will be an arrow on the tire in the direction tire must rotate. Arrow should point towards front of car on all tires. If these tires are crisscrosses from one side of the car to the other the arrow on the tire will be facing towards the back of the vehicle running in a direction the tire was not designed to run.

Have had Subaru's since 2005. Where we live, in the winter and steep curvy hill, you either have 4WD or AWD to get in and out if there's any snow at all in the drive. Have literally pushed snow with the bumper uphill going out of the drive on more than one occasion. Wouldn't trade the Subbies for any other AWD on the market. They just plain go in the snow, have an excellent safety rating, 28-32 mpg and have not had any issues with them other than performing regular maintenance.


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Note to self: Add AWD vehicles to the list of things that I will never own.


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## RiparianRanger (Nov 18, 2015)

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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

I've never heard of this with AWD vehicles and I've owned two.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

> a single tire failure will set you back a grand for a set of four


Try putting shoes on a BMW SUV. I've heard that tires and struts cost $1,000 per wheel.

An Outback is a good camping vehicle because it has plenty of room for gear and coolers, etc. and it can go places. There are kits to mount a tent on the roof but I've never done that. 

Another thing about the Outback is, it makes a good airport limo. I've picked up four passengers and all of their luggage, and everything fit.


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## got me hooked (Apr 10, 2010)

Very interesting post. I was in the market for a forester until I read this. Not giving up though. I do like subarus.


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

I have a 2012 Outback we purchased new. Liked it so much we now have a 2017 Outback for the wife. With the roof rack and a cargo rack on the back I can carry all the camping gear I used to haul in my pickup. Difference is I am getting 30 miles to the gallon. Subaru makes a hell of a vehicle.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

The drivetrain goes where you point it. Unless you're being a jerk and flooring the gas and drifting around on snow or something like that. Then you might get to know a curb or a light pole. With enough gas, that AWD drivetrain can get completely out from under you, and you're drifting.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

got me hooked said:


> Very interesting post. I was in the market for a forester until I read this. Not giving up though. I do like subarus.


I sure wouldn't give up either. You'll find the Forester is an excellent vehicle that will take you just about anyplace you want to go in most any kind of weather. Wife drives a 2017 Forester now. In the long run, I'm sure it will be just like the 09 Outback that my wife totaled and the 05 Legacy thats pushing 200,000 that still runs me everyday. It's my beater car that I drive to save miles on my pickup.
All have been great vehicles costing me nothing but regular maintenance.


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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

If you really want matching depth tires on your car, find your local SCCA (sports car club of america) regional club contact. Call them and ask who can shave a road tire for you. I bet a local tire dealer can handle this - you just need to find the right one. We use to do this all the time for racing. Take a production tire and reduce the depth of the tread so that it would flex less when racing on asphalt or concrete. Full size tread cornering at speed will throw chunks and overheat... It would be less expensive to shave off the 2/32 from a new tire than to throw out the other 3 and replace with new. We use to cut additional full depth groves in tread when we were doing ProRally too - that was done right at the BFGoodrich truck that brought us the standard all-terrain production tires at an event. Worst case is that your tire warranty is void - like they are worth anything anyway...

Btw - I call BS on this need to worry about 2/32 of tire. We had a similar incident with respect to my mom's toyata rav4. After i spoke to the tire dealer - I walked out with one new tire on that car. Its still going strong...


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## Rocknut (Apr 17, 2015)

If the tires are truly different sizes then yes it could hurt the trans. 
What if one of your tires is low on air? This would be worse than 2/32 of tread depth difference in the tires.


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## MIGHTY (Sep 21, 2013)

Not trying to hijack this thread but to all of you Subaru owners this is a young girls car that been stored at my work for over a year now. I did a little bit of searching on the web and found some stuff about certain year motors in certain models that would burn oil pretty quickly because of junk rings or something to that extent and after threatening to be sued they extended the warranty on these motors? If anyone has any info on this you can PM me if you’d like because hers is blown up and if there’s some sort of extended warranty that her car falls under it might help her out. Thanks.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Some model years of the 2.5L motor are famous for head gasket failures. Another problem can be a failure of the oil pump seal, leading to a loss of oil pressure.

As with many motors, the 2.5 is an "interference" design where if the timing belt fails, the valves will stop in whatever position, and the pistons will hammer them until the crankshaft stops.

So, when you're due to change the timing belt (before failure) or a head gasket job, there's a list of "while you're in there" tasks that might as well be done while things are being taken apart anyway. Timing belt, belt tensioner, crank and cam seals, oil and water pump seals.

BTW some turbocharged Subaru engines can drop into some old classic Volkswagens. It's the same "boxer" horizontally-opposed design. It's possible to make a heck of a sleeper out of a Bug or a Ghia or even a bus.






For those of you who don't know, that Psssht sound between gears is a blow-off valve that lets off pressure when the turbo is spinning too fast and making too much pressure for the engine RPM.

It's possible to put a duck call on one.


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## Rocknut (Apr 17, 2015)

They are known for bad ring lands and spun rod bearings. Just put a new factory shortblock in my son's wrx over the winter because of a spun bearing


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Yeah my 2001 is down for a spun rod bearing, sitting in the driveway now. I'm driving a Honda minivan instead and I'm not enjoying it.


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

Just another note, not that I sell cars, but a few winters ago after the boat show, you know when it snows 6 inches while you are in there, my brother in law in his chevy sedan accelerates to speed and starts doing doughnuts in the parking lot. I tried to follow him but couldn't get my subaru to spin or drift in 6 inches of fresh snow. and I was trying too. sometimes it gives me too much confidence in snow and ice. 

Just point the tires and accelerate in the direction you want to go. true AWD in action.
This is a great post with helpful information.
I will opt to shave the tires next time I have to. "knock on wood."
Rickerd


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## TomC (Aug 14, 2007)

I love my outback, both of them. 2013's I have a 3.6r limited and my wife's is a 2.5pzev limited. We got around the oil consumption issue by changing oil. We only use valvoline maxlife full synthetic. That's stopped any oil usage we had. 

While just over 60,000 the front diff blew on her car. Subie replaced it and the cvt for free, even being out of warranty.

As ways of fishing or camping vehicles they rock. You can hold so much gear and equipment, and I have a 2" hitch on mine for pulling the boat. I get 24mpg with the 3.6 when pulling the boat. As ways of being off road, lol I've buried mine up to the front bumper and half way up the wheels in mud before and it got out. I had to turn the traction control off and rock it a bit. The having to replace all 4 tires is a crock as i replaced my two front ones. Sure 4 is better than 2 but hey when money is the key. 

I'm currently looking at the Ascent right now, 3rd row seating and a good towing capacity as well as it reminds me of a bigger outback. Also wagoner's subaru told me, subie is in the process of coming out with an off road outback to be in production.


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## gotta hit (Dec 11, 2007)

we have a bunch of fords awd in our fleet and never had issues with replacing just 1 tire, my question to subaru is, what if you had to use the spare (hopefully a full size spare) and you keep it on for a few days until you can get a tire/tires? spares would be new and your tires have let say 30k+ or - on them like yours do?


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Not sure but I think the Subaru doughnut is the same diameter as a stock tire, but narrower to fit under the hatch floor. IIRC they say not to run it over 50 mph or 50 miles, it's just for limping home.

BTW that's another thing about Outbacks - the spare rides in the car. Not like vans or SUVS where you have to crawl under the vehicle and wrestle a wingnut to drop the spare.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Look at some of the 60s - 70s cars and half of the trunk space is taken up by the spare.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

scioto_alex said:


> Look at some of the 60s - 70s cars and half of the trunk space is taken up by the spare.


Na...Most of the 60-70 trunks could hold 2 dead bodies.. My former boss was found in the trunk of a caddy....SAD… Mob related..


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Snakecharmer said:


> Na...Most of the 60-70 trunks could hold 2 dead bodies.. My former boss was found in the trunk of a caddy....SAD… Mob related..


Yep...we used to sneak half the neighborhood into the drive in theatres in the trunks of those cars.


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## multi species angler (Feb 20, 2006)

gotta hit said:


> we have a bunch of fords awd in our fleet and never had issues with replacing just 1 tire, my question to subaru is, what if you had to use the spare (hopefully a full size spare) and you keep it on for a few days until you can get a tire/tires? spares would be new and your tires have let say 30k+ or - on them like yours do?


 Exactly,what he said. I was thinking the same thing. Just doesn't make since.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> Na...Most of the 60-70 trunks could hold 2 dead bodies.. My former boss was found in the trunk of a caddy....SAD… Mob related..


Jimmie?


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Dovans said:


> Jimmie?


His name was Chuck.......Found in a trunk with a bullet in his head.. His brother and him were always packing at the restaurant they owned but the Mob gets their man. I t was about tens years after I had gone off to college.


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## Rocknut (Apr 17, 2015)

This is what Subaru's are made for. Haul your but hiking or haul the kayak.


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