# st marys updates



## killingtime

i know the other thread about st marys is closed but i would like to still hear the updates on what is happening with the lake. i hope people like fishintechnician still keeps us informed as did other people. i grew up fishing that lake with my dad and even though i dont go back much i still care about what happens to it. any information will be appreciated.


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## Lynxis

best bet is to check channel 7 dayton and dailystandard.com for updates


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## zaraspook

Latest water test for toxins can be found at this link www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/35/inland_lakes/glsm_microcystin_data.pdf 

Page 5 shows latest test data for microcystin which is last year's toxin and the problem toxin for the last 3-4 weeks. On page 9 are the results for toxins generated from this year's new algae strain. These haven't been a consistent problem lately. 

We're hoping at a minimum the boating ban can be lifted. Local businesses could use a bone, anything positive, to help survive. May have been lifted but I haven't seen anything official.


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## steelheadBob

killingtime said:


> i know the other thread about st marys is closed but i would like to still hear the updates on what is happening with the lake. i hope people like fishintechnician still keeps us informed as did other people. i grew up fishing that lake with my dad and even though i dont go back much i still care about what happens to it. any information will be appreciated.


Lets try to keep it to updates and not point fingers and this one shall remain open.


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## GETTIN' THERE

This is not good. From whio tv channel 7 Dayton

http://www.whiotv.com/news/24446001/detail.html


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## auglaizewader

There is a press conference at Wright State University Lake Campus today at 11:30. The Governor and Directors of Agriculture, Health, Epa, and DNR will all be in attendance. My guess is that an action plan of some type will be announced today.


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## zaraspook

GETTIN' THERE said:


> This is not good. From whio tv channel 7 Dayton
> 
> http://www.whiotv.com/news/24446001/detail.html


Very disturbing and concur not good news. Sounds like more revelations to come today from Channel 7 on additional cases with possible links to water. 

Although latest water tests (26th) show toxin levels no where near a few weeks ago, EPA won't embrace lifting any advisories for the lake.....another setback for the lake community, but people in area need to know dangers and risks are severe.


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## zaraspook

Dayton Channel 7 news had a reporter on site for Gov Strickland's Friday announcement. Reporter was short on details other than no actions in the works before September, state officials to work with local business owners to develop a relief plan, and the water is a health risk. 

Hope there is more to the announcement than reported but nothing posted anywhere to provide details. Let me know if anyone finds better info.


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## RedCanoe59

here is a pretty awful story out of the daily standard, about a whose dog died and he fell ill cleaning the blue-green alge off of dog. no autopsy was done on the dog, but i would be pretty silly to say argue there is connection, given the circumstances. any hate mail anyone would like to send my way please PM, i don't want any hand in getting the forum shut down again. 

http://dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=12487


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## spfldbassguy

I seen the dog dying story on the 12oclock news today,and it saddened me.I would make a reasonable guess to say that the algea did the dog in somehow.Whether it drank some water or had an open wound of some sort.It's a pretty big coincendense that the dog was in the water & is now dead & his owner got sick afterwards as well.I hope they find a viable solution to the problem up there soon.That way everyone that uses that lake or makes their living around it can get back to some sense of normalcy.


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## GETTIN' THERE

Here is the governors press release from St. Marys today.


http://governor.ohio.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=1744


Looks like they are going to go ahead with the Alum application in Sept. Test small section first then if results warrant treat entire lake...


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## zaraspook

Governor's official State action plan is at this link www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/47/citizen/GLSMactionplan.pdf


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## killingtime

just got home from work and logged in and it was nice to see all the reports and concern for the the lake. i know all activites on the lake are shut down but i wonder what will happen with the duck blind drawing.


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## iam20fan

i think the state should offer free camping at st. marys state park for the rest of the season to help that area's ecnomy.


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## zaraspook

iam20fan said:


> i think the state should offer free camping at st. marys state park for the rest of the season to help that area's ecnomy.


Free camping is a great idea but you can't boat, swim, touch the water, eat the fish.......you'll be camping but with nothing to do except cook weenies and make smores. We should save your idea for the spring when toxin levels will be lower and maybe build confidence and traffic. 

For now and for the 2nd straight year business owners in the GLSM area are on their own. It's not clear what assistance the State can provide, but if your business is impacted by lake tourism, you're hanging by a thread. Those guys don't want a handout......they want their lake back and the customer base it brings.

My lake place is in an area of approximately 30 homes/cottages. Less than 1/3 of homes are lived in year-round. 20+ are weekenders who come to swim, boat, fish, party-hearty, buy gas, beer, repair boats, etc. I was there Saturday and it was a ghost town.......saw 2 people in 5 hours and none were weekenders. 

Very difficult environment and challenge for Celina, St. Mary's area...............keep thinking and coming up with ideas.


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## Sanitarian2

If BP is responsible for lost business due to their spill I wonder why Ohio Farmers in the GLSM watershed are not responsible for their spill?


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## killingtime

sanitarian2 i know your mad at whats going on but please dont start pointing fingers. steelheadbob made it clear to use this thread for updates and not finger pointing. i do not want to get this thread closed.


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## RedCanoe59

I'm not trying to stirr up the hornet's nest but sunday's standard, had two articals, one was a report on the state's plan that zara spook posted the other was about new proposed regulations requiring producers to have the ability to store animal waste for at least 3 1/2months. The idea is that the farmers not spread manure on in the winter time, because more of the nutriants fueling the bloom

A few years back there was a lot of buzz about filter strips helping improve water quality, by essencially putting a sponge between the drainage and the feild, or at least that was the idea. Some people reffer to this as reparian buffer zone. I was wondering if theese measures didn't work as expected, or if it was under-utilizied


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## killingtime

good question redcanoe59 hopefully someone can answer that. when i bult my wetlands on my 30 acres i put in in a buffer zone and the soil and water people told me they work but i dont know if the buffer zones at st marys worked like they thought or not. thanks for the update on what you read in the standard.


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## LEfriend

RedCanoe59 said:


> I Some people refer to this as riparian buffer zone. I was wondering if these measures didn't work as expected, or if it was under-utilized


The answer is some of both. Buffer zones definitely do work. They work to trap sediment, nutrients and pesticides...they are not just for nutrients. They provide habitat and stream stability. Benefits have been proven by science and research.

But buffer zones by themselves are not a magic wand. Big storms or tile can cause runoff to bypass the buffers. If buffers become over saturated with nutrients, they cease to be effective. If manure is applied in winter on frozen ground, buffers don't work very well. And in the Grand Lake watershed, because of very high land values, farmers have not applied the amount of buffers that are needed there. That region has probably lagged some other areas.

It takes many different practices to make a difference. It takes residue on the soil surface and good soil structure to reduce runoff to begin with. It takes proper timing and amounts of fertilizer applications. It takes cover crops to soak up excess nutrients. And it takes cutting back on application of any phosphorous if past years have over saturated the soil...that is transporting the manure elsewhere and reducing use of commercial fertilizer. It also takes a big enough structure for the farmers to store the manure through the winter so they don't have to apply it when the ground is frozen and risk higher. And then buffers are the last line of defense to trap anything else that gets through.

It is a lot like heart disease...your doctor will tell you to lose weight, quit smoking, take Lipitor, baby aspirin, exercise and lower your blood pressure. Any one of these will help a little by itself, but one won't make much difference if you don't fix all of them.

That is why the Action Plan has many components. That is why the USDA funding component will encourage and require farmers to apply many different practices, support their installation, and require them to be part of a coordinated comprehensive nutrient management plan for each farm. That is why buffers are an important part of the solution, but by themselves not the only answer.


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## Gottagofishn

When pointing fingers it would be hard not to point at Government for not taking action sooner or imposing tougher standards or regulations. How would anyone know what damage they were doing to the enviroment by simply feeding the crops? Does anyone have any idea what damage they do when their lawn is fed?
Just sayin it's tough to blame anyone unless they knew exactly what they were doing. I can't imagine it was premeditated......


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## fishintechnician

Well sorry I'm late on it but i do have good news, our company got word from the govenors office,EPA,and dept. of ag that we are going to be funded on a trial bases along with the alum guys to see if our plan will work. I was in celina on sun getting water and sediment samples from the docks by the light house. Now all that we have to do is make it happen (which we can do) and convince the powers that be that our plan is better than dumping chemicals in there. We have a couple of weeks to present our data so once I hear more on it I will fill everyone in.


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## zaraspook

RedCanoe59 said:


> I'm not trying to stirr up the hornet's nest but sunday's standard, had two articals, one was a report on the state's plan that zara spook
> 
> A few years back there was a lot of buzz about filter strips helping improve water quality, by essencially putting a sponge between the drainage and the feild, or at least that was the idea. Some people reffer to this as reparian buffer zone. I was wondering if theese measures didn't work as expected, or if it was under-utilizied


RedCanoe59.........under-utilized is a good description. State Route 219 runs East-West within a few hundred yards of the south side of the lake. When it comes to buffers (I'm not an expert on this stuff) the fields on SR219 all look to be buffered. As you drive further south and deeper into the GLSM watershed, buffers/strips start to decline. Crop fields are planted right up next to the creeks.......smaller buffers or no buffers are more frequent. SR274 runs east-west, parallel to SR 219, but is 3 miles south and deeper into the watershed. If the minimum is a 30' strip/buffer on both sides of a creek, and 60' or 90' recommended to properly prevent nutrient enrichment, then best practices have deteriorated substantially by the time you hit SR274. As a generalization, fields and farms closer to the lake do a good job. The further south you travel into the watershed, buffer usage declines.

That's my observation, nothing scientific about it, and I may not recognize a good buffer from a bad one. Clearly, it doesn't appear everyone is on board. A shame the Dept of Ag has to provide incentives, share the cost, but if it works I don't care how we get there. I think I read applications are backed up for some of these initiatives, a waiting list exists. It suggests the ag community is attempting compliance, but require a carrot, and perhaps the Dept of Ag doesn't have enough $ available, or isn't approving projects quickly enough. There should be 100% compliance this year, not next year......no excuses.


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## RedCanoe59

zara, now that you mention it i remember two years ago rabbit hunting with my brother-in-law on a farm near the landfill. We were running my beagle and the feilds came right up to the drainage. 

Here is a possible idea. There is a program known around the area as set-a-side, i have know idea what the real name of the program is, but it compensates farmers to a point, for planting natural grasses rather than tilling it, to save top soil. If funds were shifted away from large plots, and ermarked to help thoose along the drainage create a larger buffer zone and not take as large of a hit. 

I don't know if this program is still out there, but given the circumstances it maybe better to fund the strips and use the money that would go to one farm to go to many and focus the set-a-side ground in to areas filter strips and get a 2 uses out of the same money. The only problem i see is that theese programs usually lock feilds up for several years before, making them avalible to be planted again. This means it may take a while for funds to be avalible due to previous contract requirements. I wonder if anyone has done any real world testing or is this all based in theory, and would the presence of all the tiled feild make this measure in-effective since the tile lets water bypass the strips


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## zaraspook

fishintechnician said:


> Well sorry I'm late on it but i do have good news, our company got word from the govenors office,EPA,and dept. of ag that we are going to be funded on a trial bases along with the alum guys to see if our plan will work. I was in celina on sun getting water and sediment samples from the docks by the light house. Now all that we have to do is make it happen (which we can do) and convince the powers that be that our plan is better than dumping chemicals in there. We have a couple of weeks to present our data so once I hear more on it I will fill everyone in.


Looking forward to hearing more as data becomes available......


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## RedCanoe59

artical from the daily standard 

http://dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=12524


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## zaraspook

Just viewed the latest GLSM water tests results (link posted below). Samples were collected 8-2 and results are on page 10. I noticed a new column on the report titled "Red Algae Bloom Center of Lake". That's a new algae and new test location..........last year's algae was blue-green and this year a new blue-green strain plus we still have last year's. What's the deal on the newest addition, the red stuff? Anyone have insight and was this one quietly slipped in, and no announcement made?

Looking back on page 9, on 7-23 the red algae in center of lake tested at a significant level of 6 ppb of anatoxin-A, one of the bacteria brought to us with the new blue-green algae. GLSM has no problem getting press for algae and toxin stuff, but I must have missed the news on red. Perhaps an algae expert, maybe fishtechnician, will weigh-in?

link www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/35/inland_lakes/glsm_microcystin_data.pdf


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## fishintechnician

Actually the red is news to me as well i will ask some of the other lab techs and see if any of them can give me any info on it.


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## GETTIN' THERE

Title says it all. Article says the rest

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...rys-lake-would-take-2-to-2-years--850885.html


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## Lynxis

Man that would be great if they dredged that lake.

The bottom of that lake is disgusting, lol.


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## BFG

Nuke it, drain it, dredge it, re-build it. 

While all that is going on, devise a new plan for surface water in that part of the State. 

Look at this as a cloud with a silver lining. Yes, it does suck..but yes..there is a lot to be learned from this project. 

Lake Erie is right behind Lake St. Mary's. Imagine if they had to shut Erie down....


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## zaraspook

Dredging will remove highly enriched bottom sediment, but if phosphorus and nitrate sources aren't stopped, we'll need to dredge it again withing a decade or two. Gotta stop the inflow........kind of like stopping the flow of illegal immigrants across our southern US border, then decide how to deal with contaminants already there.


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## Weekender#1

The program you may be thinking of for farmers to take ground out of production was Conservation Reserve Program - CRP ground. Where farmers are paid a low amount of funding per square foot. You must sign the land up for 10 years I believe and must mow at least 1/2 of the ground each year and every bit of the ground must be farmable. The Feds will not pay for a thicket or woods acreage. 
I am a little leary of the state funding never before used remedies. A lot of scammers will be knocking on the door soon. Don't you think the folks that know the most on this subject are the State and Federal officials, no matter how much we may or may not dislike them. I knew a crew that was trying to get funding to take sand out of rivers, they got the pumps and that worked fine until the investors and the Feds money was gone.


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## fishintechnician

I don't know if any of you have heard or not but burr oak sp and blue rock sp have both been closed due to toxic algae. I have not been able to find out if it is cyanobacteria or not all I could find was that it was toxic blue-green algae similiar to that at st. marys.

On a side note all of our prelim testign and data for GLSM is going very well. We have been able to sucsessfully flip the cyano samples from GLSM and get the new culture to bloom and destroy the cyano and the microsystins. Everythign is looking very good right now but we have alot of work ahead of us.


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## zaraspook

fishintechnician said:


> I don't know if any of you have heard or not but burr oak sp and blue rock sp have both been closed due to toxic algae. I have not been able to find out if it is cyanobacteria or not all I could find was that it was toxic blue-green algae similiar to that at st. marys.
> 
> On a side note all of our prelim testign and data for GLSM is going very well. We have been able to sucsessfully flip the cyano samples from GLSM and get the new culture to bloom and destroy the cyano and the microsystins. Everythign is looking very good right now but we have alot of work ahead of us.


Thanks for info......heard 3rd hand that GLSM "closed until Spring". Did you get any info on the "red algae in center of lake"?


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## fishintechnician

No I haven't. Asked everyone and the only thing that they could tell me is that soem times when the cyano dies it can turn red but nothing on a red algae bloom. I was up there today and it was storming pretty bad so I didn't get a chance to do much work but the other lab techs were putting in soem tanks by the lighthouse to do soem more r&d and also collect more data.


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## eatwhatyoukeep

So you have your new culture which will eat the bad algae right? If the bad algae blooms how do you prevent your culture from blooming just as quickly and causing a major problem when it dies off from lack of food? Do you continually reintroduce it via fertilizers or spraying so that it is always in the system feeding on the bad bacteria?


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## auglaizewader

To be 100% accurate. GLSM is not closed. It has never been. There are advisories against contact, but it is not closed. The same goes for Blue Rock and Burr Oak. 

I would expect to see the toxin levels drop off this fall and the advisories be lifted until next year's warm up. 


Glad to hear the sample water was able to be flipped. I hope it can be very effective on the lake, because adding chemical to the lake doesn't thrill me. 

I believe the only "real" answer is two-fold. Solve the Phosphorus loading and dredge it. Removing the Phosporus that is there and preventing it from happening again. $90 million or not, it is the permanent solution.


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## auglaizewader

50% off camping at GLSM State Park from now until the end of the year. They are also refunding dock fees.


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## zaraspook

2 weeks ago there was a post to this thread by iam20fan suggesting cutting camping prices at GLSM......he's a visionary!

I'm gonna scout the water at Grand Lake this weekend......my pontoon hasn't been out since the super outbreak of the nasty new algae and boat could use a workout. Likely I'll have the lake all to myself.


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## auglaizewader

water looked pretty decent in areas yesterday. i bet you could see 8" into the water. Looks can be deceiving, though. Toxins can still be in clear water. Be safe.


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## Sanitarian2

auglaizewader said:


> water looked pretty decent in areas yesterday. i bet you could see 8" into the water. Looks can be deceiving, though. Toxins can still be in clear water. Be safe.



I was around the lake Thursday as well and noticed that the clarity was a good eight inches and the smell was pretty much gone. The lake still had the pea green soup color but you could actually see the concrete at the boat ramps on the West side.

Not all cyanobacteria produce toxin and not all toxin producing species do so all the time, it's really hit and miss and that's the danger. Funny thing is that the toxin is only released when the bacteria die and the cell walls break down, the thriving bacteria are harmless until old age takes them.

OEPA has tons of information on their website if you are interested, takes a bit of link hopping but they are pretty detailed. Can't remember if it's ODH/OEPA/ODNR but one has the log of testing and results for the entire year on GLSM.


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## GLSM

I am trying to talk everyone I know that has a boat into getting onto the lake the 21st.I have been out several times and can't see the problem.


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## Sanitarian2

GLSM said:


> I am trying to talk everyone I know that has a boat into getting onto the lake the 21st.I have been out several times and can't see the problem.


If they have children and they get ill after entering the water, jail time is in their future.


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## auglaizewader

Believe what you want, but the State of Ohio does not take matters like this lightly. Posting warnings all over the lake was not an easy thing to do. This is serious and the State knows it. Nobody wants the lake to be closed and for the surrounding business owners to suffer, but protecting people from illness has taken precedence. Using the lake is completely up to each individual, but it could be considered reckless.


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## MassillonBuckeye

auglaizewader said:


> Believe what you want, but the State of Ohio does not take matters like this lightly. Posting warnings all over the lake was not an easy thing to do. This is serious and the State knows it. Nobody wants the lake to be closed and for the surrounding business owners to suffer, but protecting people from illness has taken precedence. Using the lake is completely up to each individual, but it could be considered reckless.


I work with a guy whos wife works for EPA. I'll try to keep this thread posted with updates. Remember to keep this on topic. UPDATES!


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## fishintechnician

eatwhatyoukeep said:


> So you have your new culture which will eat the bad algae right? If the bad algae blooms how do you prevent your culture from blooming just as quickly and causing a major problem when it dies off from lack of food? Do you continually reintroduce it via fertilizers or spraying so that it is always in the system feeding on the bad bacteria?




the culture is actually already there all we have to do is stimulate it to grow. We want the new strain to bloom, in doing so it will actually improve d.o. levels, improve water clarity and provide forage food for fry and bait fish. All we have to do is stimulate it to get it to intially bloom, then it will consume the cyano and other bacteria, (it filters the water as it feeds). Once it blooms we can use our machines to concentrate it and then harvest it and extract the oil to make bio fuels/power.


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## eatwhatyoukeep

Thanks Tech, Very COOL stuff.


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## zaraspook

Spent 2+ hours on the lake Saturday afternoon, cruising on the pontoon. Entered the main lake from my channel and was surprised with the presence of 3 other pontoons to the west......I'd expected total solitude, certain no one else would dare the dangers of the water below. During my trek I viewed 10-12 boats, mostly pontoons, but a couple of power boats at full throttle.

Within the first 20 minutes a dead floating fish caught my eye 50 yards to port. Decided to take a closer look, suspecting it would be a carp, I pulled along side the fish. It was belly-up, definitely not a carp and now I feared it was another highly-prized species. Rolling it over with a long pole from my boat, identification was both clear and gut-wrenching. It was a walleye, estimated at 28".

Though my main objective was to survey a large portion of the lake, now that objective had been hijacked. Curiosity got the best of me.....I'd motor until I found another floater in the distance, cruise close to identify, then repeat the process. I'm not suggesting a massive fish kill.......from one to the next might be 30 yards, or could be 150 yards. Of the approximately 25 inspected, 6-7 were larger shad, 4-5 sheephead, 1 channel cat, 2 more walleye (20-24"), and the rest all carp. No bass......no crappies.....no bluegills.

Die-offs like this are oxygen depletion related, and not at all uncommon during hot weather cycles. The algae does not directly kill the fish, but does consume oxygen, therefore an indirect contributor. Toxins aren't blamed.

As reported by others, the water is plenty green in color, though I think less turbid than last year. I observed no floating scum on the lake. In channels you can find pockets of algae film, usually at the end of channels or where the water isn't stimulated at all. On the other had creeks that feed the lake on the southside carry a heavy blanket of surface algae.

The lake was peaceful with light wind and no waves other than an occasional boat wake. It was a great day to give the boat a workout, reminisce about more better times on the lake, and ponder when those better days will return.


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## zaraspook

Microcystin toxin test levels at lowest density since June. All sample areas at or below World Health Organization guidelines of 20 pbb for recreational contact (page 5 of report). Anatoxin-a, one of the new toxins this year, shows reduced level from prior week at all beaches (page 10) but there is not a recommended standard for it. Link is www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1067188

Back into 90 temps later this week which may not be helpful......


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## GETTIN' THERE

I do believe that they are going to still hold the Duck Blind drawing this Sat.
This has been a well discussed topic on the waterfowl sites too, considering 
the death of the Lab earlier this summer. Will be interesting if the warnings get lifted for the early goose season in Sept. or the actual waterfowl season
in Oct.


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## Sanitarian2

GETTIN' THERE said:


> I do believe that they are going to still hold the Duck Blind drawing this Sat.
> This has been a well discussed topic on the waterfowl sites too, considering
> the death of the Lab earlier this summer. Will be interesting if the warnings get lifted for the early goose season in Sept. or the actual waterfowl season
> in Oct.


Yes, unless something has changed since last week, they will hold the drawing and make a decision later. IF the levels drop to where they feel the water itself is safe enough they will have a late season, at this point they may not have an early season out of concern with the flesh of local foul. That may change of course.


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## BFG

> I am trying to talk everyone I know that has a boat into getting onto the lake the 21st.I have been out several times and can't see the problem.


Reminds me of the mayor in Jaws telling everyone to go in the water....


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## fishintechnician

Yeah I wouldn't recomend this it only takes one spill/slip to get contaiminated this is some nasty stuff we are talking about here even in small doeses it could make you very sick.


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## RedCanoe59

http://dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=12664


artical from the standard today, hopefully this is a good sign for you waterfowlers, maybe the lake will be safe for the season. any idea if the reduction in toxin's is due to weather conditions changing or if they are from the algea running out of fuel?


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## fishintechnician

I would say from the weather change, it doesn't bloom as well but the cooler temps sustain the algae well. the toxins are always present but are not released until the cell walls are ruptured. When the big bloom was on the algae would bloom,die,repeat. That was why the scum was forming was from all the dead/dying algae and all of it was releasing toxins. Now that the weather is dying down the algae will start to die off but it will do so slowly and also will release toxins as it dies but it will be gradual. Now this doesn't mean that the algae is gone or will be gone. When algae die it leaves kind of a spore on the cell wall. Once the algae is stired up and the conditions are favorable it will grow and bloom again.


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## zaraspook

fishintechnician...........did your company(AVS) do the report to State people about algae flipping trial results? Outcome?


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## fishintechnician

we did present and all of our lab trials were very good, they have given us a 2.5 acre site for testing on the lake, it is the cove by the lighthouse in celina we have 60 days to show what we can do. I am under the impression that if all goes well (as it should) we may get he contract for the whole lake. We start testing on monday


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## zaraspook

fishintechnician said:


> we did present and all of our lab trials were very good, they have given us a 2.5 acre site for testing on the lake, it is the cove by the lighthouse in celina we have 60 days to show what we can do. I am under the impression that if all goes well (as it should) we may get he contract for the whole lake. We start testing on monday


Excellent! For your 2.5 acre tract, what are the steps in your process to flip? What is the most important metric to measure success?


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## fishintechnician

we are taking base line samples on monday before we start seeding the silica in the cove when then have to monitor the progression of the diatoms and how the grow/bloom if they do not do well we will have to add suplimental silica to the water. After the 60 days and along the way we will take samples and measure the amount of cyano versus the amount of diatoms. Once the diatoms start to develope they should start to feed on the cyano and continue to mulitply in mass


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## RedCanoe59

fishintechnician,
well the changing season make a diffence in the test, since fall isn't prime conditions for the algea to grow, in 60 days we'll be looking much colder temps?


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## fishintechnician

It could have some effect but Algae can withstand some pretty cool temps every strain is different


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## zaraspook

GLSM boating ban lifted 8-26, see link www.whiotv.com/news/24775438/detail.html


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## RedCanoe59

http://dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=12763 


i assume this is your company fishintech


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## fishintechnician

Yep that is us. We did the first dosing yesterday and hava a follow up tomorrow. And then twice next week as well, and then we plan to see if there are any results and we will be going from there to see if we will need any more dosings to follow up.


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## zaraspook

Significant detail at this link from the Celina Daily Standard

www.dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=12827


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## fishintechnician

Well all of our dosing is complete (as far as i know) Now we are just waiting for the results hopefully everything will go the way we want. All we can do now is monitor the site and take samples and collect data. Even if our test is not 100% it should give enough data and insite as to if it will work and what we need to tweak to get it just right.


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## Sanitarian2

Any idea what time they are going to start the Otterbein Alum treatments on the 20th.


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## zaraspook

Can't help you with time of dosing, but yellow water curtain was already across entrance to Otterbein channel...........that was Saturday 18th.


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## Macfly

Do the fish know you are doing this


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## auglaizewader

The alum has been re-scheduled for 23 and 24th.


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## MassillonBuckeye

Sorry about the second post but my understanding was the states testing was successful(alum) and the other not so much. Is what what you were part of Tech? Sounds like they are going to go with the alum treatment. Preliminary results looked very promising.


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## auglaizewader

I went out to look at the treated areas on the East side on Thursday and Friday. Other than dead shad and a few dead crappies, I see very little difference. I hope the nutrients were removed from the water.


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## zaraspook

auglaizewader said:


> I went out to look at the treated areas on the East side on Thursday and Friday. Other than dead shad and a few dead crappies, I see very little difference. I hope the nutrients were removed from the water.


I'm with you......little visible difference. But, realistically alum treatment aimed at bonding with phosphorus and taking it to the bottom. Guess we were hoping the green would vanish right away. I thought Otterbein looked a little "milky". The treated area at Harmon's looked same as untreated water. Hopefully this is a big step forward that will yield dividends.

3rd hand I heard one of the areas wasn't treated, or treatment was delayed. When loaded with the chemical, the barge/platform doing the treatment got stuck in shallow water.


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## fishintechnician

I am not allowed to say in depth about our testing other than our data that we collected was very very promissing. We are still waiting for the results from the epa's testing


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## Sanitarian2

Everyone is lucky that the media didn't show up,producing film of literally thousands of young of the year shad, struggling on top of the water, gasping for air, the pictures of hundreds of dead, floating three inch long shad, plus some crappie, gills and catfish would have really hurt the project. 

It was amazing to see schools of shad, hundreds of feet long, completely filling the channel, all driven to the top of the water column, either because of the irratation of the alum or lack of O2. Here and there a fish would roll over and die, floating on top. Seagulls coming down and feasting on some dead fish.

The promise in the paper by the company had been, clear to the bottom and that didn't happen. The shad kill and even a minor kill of game fish will be tolerable if the "P" portion of the experiment is successful. How many more fish die over the next month because of the treatment, low O2 and irration is also at play.


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## zaraspook

Sanitarian2 said:


> Everyone is lucky that the media didn't show up,producing film of literally thousands of young of the year shad, struggling on top of the water, gasping for air, the pictures of hundreds of dead, floating three inch long shad, plus some crappie, gills and catfish would have really hurt the project.
> 
> It was amazing to see schools of shad, hundreds of feet long, completely filling the channel, all driven to the top of the water column, either because of the irratation of the alum or lack of O2. Here and there a fish would roll over and die, floating on top. Seagulls coming down and feasting on some dead fish.
> 
> The promise in the paper by the company had been, clear to the bottom and that didn't happen. The shad kill and even a minor kill of game fish will be tolerable if the "P" portion of the experiment is successful. How many more fish die over the next month because of the treatment, low O2 and irration is also at play.


Sanitarian2..........did you personally view and at which alum test site? As I read the Celina Daily standard report, they don't suggest a big fish kill. Selective reporting maybe? Newspaper report is here www.dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=12996


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## zaraspook

Here's another newspaper report (Celina Daily) posted 2 days (23rd) earlier regarding application at Harmon's. www.dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=12975

Can' say I could see a difference at Harmon's...............was there Saturday. Maybe I looked at wrong place although I was within a 40-50 yards of the water curtain.


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## Sanitarian2

zaraspook said:


> Here's another newspaper report (Celina Daily) posted 2 days (23rd) earlier regarding application at Harmon's. www.dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=12975
> 
> Can' say I could see a difference at Harmon's...............was there Saturday. Maybe I looked at wrong place although I was within a 40-50 yards of the water curtain.



Yes, I was at Harmon's for the morning and stopped back later in the afternoon and the next morning as well, you are right, not much of a difference. The article in the Evening Leader was a complete crock, not sure if it was bad reporting or "spin" by the lady from ODNR that was quoted.(I didn't see a single female all day)

There was a fish kill during the second application, at no time did it clear to four feet, not even close. O2 levels only dropped about three quarters of a ppm from about 4.5 to 3.75 at the later application, they actually applied the first load when the DO was barely above 1ppm. 

None of that matters though if the process removed the available "P" from the water column, it's all secondary to the real issue. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope we get the reduction needed.


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## Sanitarian2

"Shortly after the alum was applied, 3-inch long gizzard shad started swimming to the surface seeking air. Fletcher said the behavior was expected and temporary. The reaction was not caused by the chemical, rather from some of the algae dying quickly as it was carried to the lake bottom with the phosphorous.
Alum causes phosphorous and some of the algae to bind and drop, making the phosphorous unavailable to the algae to eat, Fletcher said. When algae decomposes it takes up oxygen, which can drop dissolved oxygen levels. Application was suspended for 90 minutes to allow the oxygen level to increase, Fletcher said.
Dissolved oxygen levels will be monitored throughout the 60-day study, Fletcher said.
"If there is a fish kill, this might help explain why, but it would be temporary," he said. "Once the algae decomposes, we would expect dissolved oxygen levels to come back up."
Holz said shad are a weaker species that reacts adversely to low oxygen levels.
"We're starting with a lake that has very low dissolved oxygen levels to begin with," he said. "You're going to have some of this."

Not sure I buy this story, the reaction to the chemical was instant, within seconds and I find it hard to believe that the O2 level drops that fast due to decomposing algae. Plus, the O2 levels well below the 3.75ppm noted in the second test BEOFORE the ealier application and the shad were not distressed in any way. The reaction has to be to the chemical, it's pH or it bothers the gills, something else at least initially. An interesting test would be to hold fish in a clean tank, no algae and then add alum, see the reation.


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## zaraspook

Agree........reporting is "fishy".......inconsistent, even suspicious.

You are right......phosphorus removal/containment is goal. A small fish kill is acceptable if phosphorus is removed from the water column, no longer available to feed algae. And, if fish kill is limited to shad, it is a plus. 

Have you noticed shad population at GLSM, shad activity in channels suggests an incredible population this year? I've read posts at other lakes about high shad populations......GLSM is no different. Unusual shad activity at Grand Lake in my opinion.


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## zaraspook

Latest water quality tests by EPA, etc are at the link below. The toxins from the summers new blue-green algae show extremely low levels. Microcystins, which were the byproduct of the prior/normal algae, since early August remain under the 20ppb World Health organization standards.

Lake is low which likely concentrates the algae already in the lake. Appearance is green, but a little less than last year at this time. 

www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/35/inland_lakes/glsm_microcystin_data.pdf


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## fishwhacker

Living about 10 minutes from glsm i was curious this week. I went to one of the ALUM test sites to do some fun fishing and see what was happening. I don't know if it was the ALUM or the year of no fishing pressure but I found a bunch and I mean a bunch of huge bluegills and several crappies. None of the crappies were of the legal limit. All the fish looked very healthy hope this is a sign of things to come. I obviously did not keep any of the fish, just wanted to give you fellow fisherman hope that glsm may return to a fine fishing lake.


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## zaraspook

fishwhacker said:


> Living about 10 minutes from glsm i was curious this week. I went to one of the ALUM test sites to do some fun fishing and see what was happening. I don't know if it was the ALUM or the year of no fishing pressure but I found a bunch and I mean a bunch of huge bluegills and several crappies. None of the crappies were of the legal limit. All the fish looked very healthy hope this is a sign of things to come. I obviously did not keep any of the fish, just wanted to give you fellow fisherman hope that glsm may return to a fine fishing lake.


fishwhacker.......Sounds like you had fun and good to hear someone else found an active bite at GLSM. I had a similar experience two weekends ago. Went after crappies Saturday 25th for about 4 hours in the middle of the day and then again Sunday 26th for 2.5 hours in evening. Saturday action was crazy once I located fish and still a good bite Sunday, but fish location changed. Final tally was 42 crappies, 22 bluegills, 7 channel cats, one chunky yellow belly, and a small bass.

Crappies weren't big, most 5-7". Six were legal size with biggest 10 and 3/4 inches. Bluegills on the other hand were impressive......got into a pile of nice ones. The largest channel was 19" and I'm guessing around 3.25 pounds, and the others 14-16 inches. On an 8' fly rod, the channels were a lot of fun.

Fish were all healthy looking. Lots of shad activity, more than in recent years, and I think those channel cats were pigging out on the shad. The number and variety of fish made it very entertaining. I was bank fishing and all fish, including the channels were caught on twister tail grub.

Let's not tell anyone..........


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