# Pay lakes



## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

Does anyone know some pay lakes that have huge cats but not annoying people? Thanks


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

I hope Lundy don't mind, I screen shot this a while back... here is why you probably won't get much help on a pay lake topic.


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## soulsurvivor79 (Jul 10, 2013)

Krazy Katz in Bloomfield is usually my go to, the only downside is there is no shade from trees so it gets HOT in the summer. River cats fight harder and are more fun to catch though imo.


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

soulsurvivor79 said:


> Krazy Katz in Bloomfield is usually my go to, the only downside is there is no shade from trees so it gets HOT in the summer. River cats fight harder and are more fun to catch though imo.


Are there a lot of 50+ pulled out of there whats your PB out of there?


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## soulsurvivor79 (Jul 10, 2013)

jake222 said:


> Are there a lot of 50+ pulled out of there whats your PB out of there?



On their website the average fish pulled out of there is 20-40lbs and CLAIM to have 50 60 70 lbers.....never seen one that big caught out of there. On the website they have pictures posted of peoples fish.


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

this is from a lake in grove port them cats get huge it's on my bucket list to get a 50+lber this year


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## FlashGordon (Mar 19, 2014)

Jake, I like going to Big Cats Paylake in Grove City once in a while. The biggest I pulled out of there was 17 pounds, but I saw some as big a 38 pounds pulled out of there.

The way I avoid the annoying people is by going at midnight after the tournaments are over and you'll have the place almost entirely to yourself. I don't know if that's an option or not since you are a teenager. You can also start early and there won't be many people around until the afternoon.


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## chris1162 (Mar 12, 2008)

jake222 said:


> View attachment 105690
> this is from a lake in grove port them cats get huge it's on my bucket list to get a 50+lber this year



Congrats to the netter who originally caught that!


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


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## ducky152000 (Jul 20, 2005)

chris1162 said:


> Congrats to the netter who originally caught that!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


Amen to that brother! that fish wont be that big for long.


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## boatmotorjim1 (Jan 18, 2015)

the one in winchester ohio has the best size i've seen.


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

Save your money, plenty of catfishing opportunities in Ohio, just do a little research before hand and you will be rewarded.


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

Many paylakers are actually there to make money, for them it is as much about the gambling as it is fishing.

I have tried to explain pay lakes to people outside of the midwest. Nobody seems to get it. 

It is sad to see all of those huge fish hoop netted and stuck in a pond. They are never to spawn again, so are essentially dead.


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## BottomBouncer (Jan 20, 2005)

jake222 said:


> Does anyone know some pay lakes that have huge cats but not annoying people? Thanks


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## allbraid (Jan 14, 2012)

Pay Lakes......Like going to a whore house and bragging to your buddies what a lady's man you are!


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## BottomBouncer (Jan 20, 2005)

allbraid said:


> Pay Lakes......Like going to a whore house and bragging to your buddies what a lady's man you are!


LOL....I have used a line very similar to this  Something to the affect of getting hot chicks at a brothel.


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

I honestly think it is the next greatest reality show. *PAYLAKERS Dusk til Dawn*

It really is a fascinating subculture


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## EStrong (Jul 23, 2014)

I like to practice dynamite fishing at pay lakes.  Of course I'm asked not to return.


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## ShoreFshrman (Sep 25, 2014)

allbraid said:


> Pay Lakes......Like going to a whore house and bragging to your buddies what a lady's man you are!



That's down right funny, right there!!!


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

etheostoma said:


> I honestly think it is the next greatest reality show. *PAYLAKERS Dusk til Dawn*
> 
> It really is a fascinating subculture


Yes. Huge cats and annoying people seem to go hand in hand. At least at pay lakes!


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

Are the people really that annoying? Are they them people that cross your line and blame you or them people that snag your line and then reel it in and then take your lure?


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

...............


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

jake222 said:


> Are the people really that annoying? Are they them people that cross your line and blame you or them people that snag your line and then reel it in and then take your lure?


I couldn't really say since I don't frequent pay lakes, but, as etheostoma explained, a lot of folks are there to try to win the "pool" money. Big fish takes the prize, so I have to imagine some shenanigans go on. I think it might remind me of the one, and only, annual festival of the Mahoning County **** Hunters that I attended. I was helping out a buddy who had a booth there repping a dog food company. Talk about a fascinating subculture! It was like going back in time to about 1840 or so! They had the water races and other competitions, and money was changing hands like mad! That night some guy got shot in the pavilion for dancing with someone else's wife! That put a damper on the festivities. Well, at least until the ambulance hauled the guy away and the sheriff arrested the shooter. Then it was right back to Wayne's World! Party on Wayne! Party on Garth! 

The closest I get to a pay lake situation is, I belong to a fish & game club that stocks rainbow trout in our main fishing lake. Opening day is an absolute zoo! People will camp out and sleep by the lake in order to have their "spot" on opening morning. I don't even bother trying to fish until a week or two into the season when the frenzy dies down. There are still plenty of fish in the lake (I caught a bunch last year), and you don't have to stand in line!


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

Telling you the guy with a bit of start up money and good sales skills, can make a bunch of money on a paylake reality show. Imagine Henry hitting the meth pipe so he can stay awake long enough to have the chance at that jackpot. Talking about why skipjack are better than green sunfish(which he will call rock bass), and why he fishes them under a monster floater with a slip rig about 5 feet deep. He can tell you how shovelhead(flathead) prefer live bait, and blue cats prefer cut bait. You can grab a shovelhead in the mouth with minimal scarring, but watch out for them blues.

I admit, I did participate in this "sport" during my highschool years. I am not proud of it. Later in my early twenties, we quit the death ponds, and fished for big cats on the banks of the Ohio. Granted we never caught a 90 to 100 pound fish on the river, but we had tons of fun and caught two right near 50 Lbs. One buddy of mine caught both of those. My largest was only 36 pounds. still not too bad for bank fishing. Fished anywhere that the law would not trouble us from New Richmond down to the 275 loop. Law was a problem as catfishing also involved beer drinking in those days, so we had to pick our spots carefully. We would pass up the best fishing spot if it was likely to interfere with our beer.


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

So is it wrong to fish a pay lake? Can you guys give me your opinions on this one? Don't really want to go fish a pay lake if I gotta deal with nimrods and baby's who cry and wine when you have a big cat run I i their lines or the fish not living in a ok habitat


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

I'd rather have these baitchuckers at the paylakes than the rivers and streams that I fish.


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## Frankie G (Aug 18, 2014)

sbreech said:


> I'd rather have these baitchuckers at the paylakes than the rivers and streams that I fish.


Great Point!!!!


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

jake222 said:


> So is it wrong to fish a pay lake? Can you guys give me your opinions on this one? Don't really want to go fish a pay lake if I gotta deal with nimrods and baby's who cry and wine when you have a big cat run I i their lines or the fish not living in a ok habitat


Most big cats are taken by less than legal means from the larger rivers, sold to the paylakes, and then people gamble on who catches the biggest ones. The big fish will die a slow death in these small ponds from starvation and disease, and will never breed again. This helps deplete the natural resources in the rivers and streams by taking the top predators that produce offspring from the rivers. Some of these large catfish are VERY old.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

jake222 said:


> So is it wrong to fish a pay lake? Can you guys give me your opinions on this one? Don't really want to go fish a pay lake if I gotta deal with nimrods and baby's who cry and wine when you have a big cat run I i their lines or the fish not living in a ok habitat


Thats for you to decide. If you just wanna go hang out,catch channel cats,pm me. I got a few places in mind for you.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

I do want to chime in a little on this... around me, we have a couple of what would be considered "pay lakes". However, the "pay" aspect comes from the fact that they are just privately owned and are accompanied by a swimming beach, campground, pavilions for picnics, etc... These pay lakes are just as self sustaining as any of the public bodies of water around the state. No stocking. No derbies. No prizes. The lake itself takes a backseat to everything else within the park. Yeah, you've got to drop 5 bucks to fish it, and any yahoo without a license can fish there, but these places are not stealing fish for their own benefit at our cost. Do your research on any place you may want to check out. If they're offering cash prizes for anything, odds are there's going to be circumstances that will take away from not only your good time, but also your ability to learn how fish really act in their natural environment. There's a whole lot of better things about spending time fishing, than just catching one big fish...


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

Why and how do they take fish from say the Ohio river?


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

jake222 said:


> Why and how do they take fish from say the Ohio river?


Why? Because once the take the fish out of its natural habitat it's unable to sustain a healthy life. Plus being caught 50 times doesn't help. Think about it, why do they stick so often? That's because a majority of them don't last but a month.
How do they get the fish? Easy... hoop nets.


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

whodeynati said:


> Why? Because once the take the fish out of its natural habitat it's unable to sustain a healthy life. Plus being caught 50 times doesn't help. Think about it, why do they stick so often? That's because a majority of them don't last but a month.
> How do they get the fish? Easy... hoop nets.



That's sick


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

Kentucky offers commercial licenses that allow catfish hoop netting in the Kentucky river, Kentucky lake and the Ohio river at least if not more waterways. So good viable catfish populations turn into dead fish swimming in Ohio paylakes.


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## BottomBouncer (Jan 20, 2005)

Does the state or anyone else breed flatheads?


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

There is only one hatchery in the US that spawns Flatheads. I can't even remember what state it is in. They only do it on a special(large) order basis. So in the past they have only produced them for state organizations that put in a huge order. I am thinking it was a hatchery in Ohlahoma, but am not sure. 

They are not a very viable species for aquaculture. Difficult to pellet train, slower growing, and too cannibalistic. Therefore there is not much interest in breeding them like channel catfish.


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## mick4 (Jun 29, 2013)

The state of Ohio is starting to with blues with the help of Kentucky.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

yeah flatheads and Blues would cost waaaay too much to raise to any size that anyone would want to buy for stocking purposes, I actually spent a small fortune in finding and acquiring 5-7" baby blues that I put in my pond 7 years ago. (Don't ask..lol) 

Figure if you wanted to pellet feed some flatheads for say 10 years, you might be able to get a 15-18 lb fish but the cost of feeding him for 10 years would be astronomical. exact same for Blues. they don't reproduce until they are around 7 years old and 15 lbs. 

This is where a lot of folks do not agree with the way a lot of pay ponds are run because they buy live "trophy" fish all taken from places like the Ohio River and stocked into ponds where they starve and get caught and release several times until they die from stress or starvation. Payponds as a whole are not the problem if they are only stocking farm raised fish but If they are stocking flatheads or blues, they are NOT farm raised, they are being taken form the publics resources and being sold to the payponds so they can have their jackpots and gambling fun at taxpayers/anglers expenses. 

Salmonid


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

Salmonid said:


> yeah flatheads and Blues would cost waaaay too much to raise to any size that anyone would want to buy for stocking purposes, I actually spent a small fortune in finding and acquiring 5-7" baby blues that I put in my pond 7 years ago. (Don't ask..lol)
> 
> Figure if you wanted to pellet feed some flatheads for say 10 years, you might be able to get a 15-18 lb fish but the cost of feeding him for 10 years would be astronomical. exact same for Blues. they don't reproduce until they are around 7 years old and 15 lbs.
> 
> ...


Wish there was a like button.


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## saugmon (Jun 14, 2006)

Here's a link that someone posted in the lounge.It talks about the cost of ODNR raised fish vs outside vendors.Flatties weren't listed:

https://ohioauditor.gov/news/pressreleases/Details/2386


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

jake222 said:


> So is it wrong to fish a pay lake? Can you guys give me your opinions on this one?


Drain all the water out of of a pay lake. Now put up a fence around the area. Now bring in White Tail Deer and Black Bear from their natural habitat by snagging, netting, or baiting. Then make a profit from people who make a sport with the animals inside of the fenced in area.


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

Fishing a pay lake stocked with wild caught fish is simply paying people to rape our natural resources.


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## EStrong (Jul 23, 2014)

I have no problem with Pay Lakes or Stocked lakes as long as they use Farm Raised Fish (such as the Hamilton County Park system down here in Cincy). When the rivers are raped of wild fish and then sold for profit, then I have an issue with it. I agree with all the reasons that have been posted as to why it's wrong.

This was taken from the General Rules section of the ODNR Fishing Regulations page. These were the first two paragraphs so I guess they're important.

*It is unlawful... *

_To buy or sell any fish taken by sport fishing from any water area in the state. This includes by means of angling and trotlinefishing._
_To transport and introduce any aquatic species (fish, invertebrate, plant) from one body of water to another._
http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/fishing/fishing-regulations/general-information

So I'm guessing, as long as any fish taken from the Ohio River are taken from the Kentucky side, and as long as it's done by "Commercial" fishermen, this practice is OK? YGBSM! The way I read the law, if Joe Blow is fishing on the GMR, Ohio or LMR and is catching monster cats, Joe Blow cannot legally take these fish from the waters he caught them from and transport them to another body of water, regardless if it's his personal pond or sells them to a pay lake. So answer me this, what's the loophole or legality that let a Pay Lake take or buy wild caught fish and use them for profit? Perhaps ODNR needs to investigate some of these places and put our license fees and taxes to better use other than just stopping by fishing spots and randomly checking fishing licenses.


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## Sciotodarby (Jul 27, 2013)

If you know a pay lake is buying illegal fish, report them. That'd be the best way to get one shut down.


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

EStrong said:


> So I'm guessing, as long as any fish taken from the Ohio River are taken from the Kentucky side, and as long as it's done by "Commercial" fishermen, this practice is OK?.


I've called the DNR 2 years ago, opening day of gun season. Within 20 minutes there were several officers hiding in the trees and bushes waiting on the CF to pull his nets. He never showed, they checked them via GPS and the nets were 10 feet into KY watets. So all was good... I was extremely aggravated along with the officers who don't agree with the practice. 
The Game Warden called me a few days later thanking me for the call.. and told me to keep calling if I suspect anything illegal


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## EStrong (Jul 23, 2014)

whodeynati said:


> I've called the DNR 2 years ago, opening day of gun season. Within 20 minutes there were several officers hiding in the trees and bushes waiting on the CF to pull his nets. He never showed, they checked them via GPS and the nets were 10 feet into KY watets. So all was good... I was extremely aggravated along with the officers who don't agree with the practice.
> The Game Warden called me a few days later thanking me for the call.. and told me to keep calling if I suspect anything illegal


So I guess that's the loophole. If the fish are caught outside of Ohio waters then it's ok, as long as the person doing the fishing has a commercial license and abides by whatever state laws are required to import live fish into Ohio. That sucks! I'm surprised KY lets this happen, it's their river also. I guess they don't care about the Ohio River getting wiped out. If something was done about this and commercial catfishing was banned on the Ohio River, these rats would find another place to take fish from and then decimate that water system. It's one of those problems that you don't want to have in your backyard but if you get rid of it you're pushing the problem onto someone else.

I've got some research to do. I'll post what I find here later.


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

EStrong said:


> *It is unlawful... *
> 
> _To buy or sell any fish taken by sport fishing from any water area in the state. This includes by means of angling and trotlinefishing._
> _To transport and introduce any aquatic species (fish, invertebrate, plant) from one body of water to another._
> ...


It is unlawful to move fish from one body of water to another body of water owned by the state. It is however not illegal to move a fish legally harvested from state waters to a privately owned body of water. So as long as you do it legally you can stock your own pond with any fish legally caught that is not listed as threatened or endangered.


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## FlashGordon (Mar 19, 2014)

Yeah let's keep blaming paylakes for the loss of trophy fish in the Ohio River.....

The Ohio River ranks first among the nation's waterways for the most toxic discharges, with 31.1 million pounds per year. The entire Ohio River has fish consumption advisories from heavy metal and PCB runoff. The river has 1,350 sewage discharges over it's full length and much of the river isn't even safe to swim in. The upper part of the river has had a long problem with acid mine drainage causing high sulfur concentrations. The Army Corps of Engineers has 20 dams on the Ohio River creating huge slow flowing pools which are well known to hamper the growth of _benthic organisms_ (that is bottom-dwellers, including catfish) and hinder upward migration of fish. Asian carp and zebra mussel populations in the Ohio are growing like wildfire which out-compete native game fish and exacerbate algae problems.

Pollution, decreased oxygen concentration, and competition with invasive species all slow or stunt fish growth. The Ohio is the most polluted major river in the country, but somehow nobody in this thread has pointed to those problems with regard to trophy fish numbers.

Paylakes are the least of the Ohio River's concerns.....


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

FlashGordon said:


> Yeah let's keep blaming paylakes for the loss of trophy fish in the Ohio River.....
> 
> The Ohio River ranks first among the nation's waterways for the most toxic discharges, with 31.1 million pounds per year. The entire Ohio River has fish consumption advisories from heavy metal and PCB runoff. The river has 1,350 sewage discharges over it's full length and much of the river isn't even safe to swim in. The upper part of the river has had a long problem with acid mine drainage causing high sulfur concentrations. The Army Corps of Engineers has 20 dams on the Ohio River creating huge slow flowing pools which are well known to hamper the growth of _benthic organisms_ (that is bottom-dwellers, including catfish) and hinder upward migration of fish. Asian carp and zebra mussel populations in the Ohio are growing like wildfire which out-compete native game fish and exacerbate algae problems.
> 
> ...


All very true. However the thread is about paylakes. Not about the condition of the Ohio river, which is actually in much better shape now than in the past, discounting the Asian carp and zebra mussels.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

EStrong said:


> I have no problem with Pay Lakes or Stocked lakes as long as they use Farm Raised Fish (such as the Hamilton County Park system down here in Cincy). When the rivers are raped of wild fish and then sold for profit, then I have an issue with it. I agree with all the reasons that have been posted as to why it's wrong.
> 
> This was taken from the General Rules section of the ODNR Fishing Regulations page. These were the first two paragraphs so I guess they're important.
> 
> ...


Well, now that I've reread this about 5 times.... there is no mention of commercial fishing with nets. I haven't read up on the C.F. laws pertaining to the Ohio river, but I'm assuming taking fish by netting them has a completely different set of regulations than we have to follow.


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## EStrong (Jul 23, 2014)

I'm trying to find out what the official laws and regulations are at this point concerning the legal or illegal stocking of pay lakes.

I think some pay lakes are run very well and they do a good job at maintaining a healthy lake environment for the benefit of the fish and the anglers for the long term. Others of course are nothing but a big mud hole and their main purpose is to make money hand over fist at any cost.

As with any hunting or fishing; poaching or illegally taking fish/game is a huge NO NO in my book. As long as nobody is breaking the law, you can disagree with the practice, or try to change the law. Not to take this off topic, just like those who catch smallies over the legal limit and keep them. We might not agree with it but it's within the law and within their right to do so.

This is an interesting thread.... more to come.


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

I do not think Ohio allows commercial fishing other than in Erie. So that is why all of the commercially caught big cats come from Kentucky. From my understanding, the bulk of the big catfish come from Kentucky lake, but I am sure plenty come from the Ohio river as well.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

FlashGordon said:


> Yeah let's keep blaming paylakes for the loss of trophy fish in the Ohio River.....
> 
> The Ohio River ranks first among the nation's waterways for the most toxic discharges, with 31.1 million pounds per year. The entire Ohio River has fish consumption advisories from heavy metal and PCB runoff. The river has 1,350 sewage discharges over it's full length and much of the river isn't even safe to swim in. The upper part of the river has had a long problem with acid mine drainage causing high sulfur concentrations. The Army Corps of Engineers has 20 dams on the Ohio River creating huge slow flowing pools which are well known to hamper the growth of _benthic organisms_ (that is bottom-dwellers, including catfish) and hinder upward migration of fish. Asian carp and zebra mussel populations in the Ohio are growing like wildfire which out-compete native game fish and exacerbate algae problems.
> 
> ...


Paylakes are a concern to trophy catfish anglers in all of our large rivers. The pollution is a constant variable, but seems to be slowly improving.



Bad Bub said:


> Well, now that I've reread this about 5 times.... there is no mention of commercial fishing with nets. I haven't read up on the C.F. laws pertaining to the Ohio river, but I'm assuming taking fish by netting them has a completely different set of regulations than we have to follow.


Commercial fishing (except baitfish) is prohibited in Ohio except for a few permit holders who were grandfathered in on Lake Erie.


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## Sciotodarby (Jul 27, 2013)

Without a doubt, there's plenty of flatheads being caught out of Ohio rivers and sold to pay lakes.


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

Sciotodarby said:


> Without a doubt, there's plenty of flatheads being caught out of Ohio rivers and sold to pay lakes.


It does happen. Pay lakes do not only have jackpots, but also pay a bounty on the fish for you to return it to the water. When I was about 17 years old we used to catch flatheads from an old pay lake that had gone out of business, and go to a local pay lake, buy a ticket and pretend like we caught the fish there and collect the bounty. The owners were always suspicious though, as they know the fish in their lake. They have seen them caught so many times that they kind of recognize their fish. This certainly happens with fish caught out of public waters as well.


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

I don't hear of these huge cats being caught. Around here anyway. Any place you guys know you can get nice cats 20+lbs?


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## Cajunsaugeye (Apr 9, 2013)

Jake,they're out there.The problem for you is you need a boat of some sort to get to them.Every bank accessible spot in Ohio gets fished hard.The Scioto down by me has MANY over 20lbs.But you're not pulling off at a "public" access and catching them.I don't care if you walk 2 miles from there,others do too.I guess its not right for me to imply that it CANT be done.But your chances go up ten fold easy by getting off the beaten path.Or go to a lake that you KNOW has flatties and chuck a 6-8" bluegill,sucker,chub out.You put enough time in,you'll hit one.


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## savethetrophies (Jul 4, 2014)

Mushijobah


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## savethetrophies (Jul 4, 2014)

What does pollution in the river have to do with taking wild fish out of river so they can never spawn again/ starve eating do balls and stink bait.


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## savethetrophies (Jul 4, 2014)

2 separate problems man. You think we are doing them a favor by taking them out of river and stuffing them in a stagnent mud hole ?


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## FlashGordon (Mar 19, 2014)

savethetrophies said:


> What does pollution in the river have to do with taking wild fish out of river so they can never spawn again/ starve eating do balls and stink bait.


The complaint seems to be that their are fewer trophy catfish in Ohio rivers than there were in the past. Pollution stunts fish growth and therefore fewer fish will reach "trophy size".

And by the way, nobody uses dough balls or stink bait for big catfish, even at paylakes.



savethetrophies said:


> 2 separate problems man. You think we are doing them a favor by taking them out of river and stuffing them in a stagnent mud hole ?


I never said we were doing them a favor. What I did say is that I think pollution is a much more significant factor in the decline in the number trophy catfish than people selling them to paylakes.


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## savethetrophies (Jul 4, 2014)

when you see the hoop nets torn to pieces with some dead blues stuck in them it makes for a pretty disturbing picture. Both are serious issues that need to be fixed.


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

FlashGordon said:


> Yeah let's keep blaming paylakes for the loss of trophy fish in the Ohio River.....
> 
> The Ohio River ranks first among the nation's waterways for the most toxic discharges, with 31.1 million pounds per year. The entire Ohio River has fish consumption advisories from heavy metal and PCB runoff. The river has 1,350 sewage discharges over it's full length and much of the river isn't even safe to swim in. The upper part of the river has had a long problem with acid mine drainage causing high sulfur concentrations. The Army Corps of Engineers has 20 dams on the Ohio River creating huge slow flowing pools which are well known to hamper the growth of _benthic organisms_ (that is bottom-dwellers, including catfish) and hinder upward migration of fish. Asian carp and zebra mussel populations in the Ohio are growing like wildfire which out-compete native game fish and exacerbate algae problems.
> 
> ...


Paylakes and commercial fisherman (Kentucky licensed) are only concerned with getting the biggest fish (Blues and Flatheads), because they fetch the most money. These mature catfish (usually 15+ lbs) do the majority of the spawning year after year. There is literally hundreds of thousands of pounds of Trophy Catfish taken out of the Ohio River year after year to feed demand for these paylakes in the Kentucky/Ohio portion of the river. They basically look at the Ohio river as a blank check, and they are going to cash in, resource be damned. This puts way more of a strain on the trophy cat population then the existing pollution could ever do. Tournament fisherman, guides, and knowledgeable recreational fisherman will all tell you the same thing, if you are going to fish the Ohio river for trophy catfish, do it on the Ohio/West Virginia side (no commercial fishing), that is your best bet for catching a monster. The illegal selling of fish to paylakes is also rampant statewide, from the MWCD lakes to the big producers of river Flatheads (Muskingum, GMR, Scioto, and Maumee). Paylakes don't just effect the trophy Catfish populations either, the baitfish populations in many small creeks/rivers and public fishing areas have also taken a huge hit as well. There are many areas that used to be rich with baitfish in Southwest Ohio that are now almost completely devoid of life. Same principle applies here, the more and bigger bait that is sold, the higher the profit. The saddest part is that most of these trophy catfish do not last more then a month in a lot of these places and die. Luckily, there has been some changes to the law that just went into effect this December that will limit how much the CF's can take out of the Ohio River (OH/KY)for next year. The question now will be enforcement of the law, which squarely falls on the shoulders of the KDNR.


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

savethetrophies said:


> when you see the hoop nets torn to pieces with some dead blues stuck in them it makes for a pretty disturbing picture. Both are serious issues that need to be fixed.



Take them if ODNR won't do nothing then who will save our fisheries?


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## mick4 (Jun 29, 2013)

Commercial fisherman just may save the day. You worry about catfish? What about Bass,Crappie and bluegill? Check out Carp Madness on Youtube, I think u have a bigger problem than the Commercial fisherman!


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

I like to keep carp and put them in a family members field and use as bait we have a big problem with quillback at Charles mill spillway


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## mick4 (Jun 29, 2013)

jake222......Not these Carp.Watch the video 42 tons in 2 days.


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

FlashGordon said:


> The complaint seems to be that their are fewer trophy catfish in Ohio rivers than there were in the past. Pollution stunts fish growth and therefore fewer fish will reach "trophy size".
> 
> And by the way, nobody uses dough balls or stink bait for big catfish, even at paylakes.
> 
> ...


Keeping good Genetics in the river system is the best way to produce trophy cats. You can have two catfish, the same age, one weighing 25lbs the other at 60 lbs, they both are living in the same environment with the same food sources, the only difference is genetics. Don't get me wrong, pollution is a major concern in the Ohio river ecosystem as a whole in general (which lately has been much better then what it used to be), it just doesn't have the effect of majorly impacting the Trophy class size of Catfish or their growth rates/potential size.


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## Sciotodarby (Jul 27, 2013)

I don't think comparing fish to deer is a good comparison. How many let true trophy bucks walk?


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

mick4 said:


> Commercial fisherman just may save the day. You worry about catfish? What about Bass,Crappie and bluegill? Check out Carp Madness on Youtube, I think u have a bigger problem than the Commercial fisherman!


Keeping very large Flatheads and Blues in the river system is the best way of buffering the onslaught of Silver and Bighead Asian Carp, this was also one of the reasons why Kentucky enacted the new limits in December. I would absolutely have 0 problem with commercial fisherman taking out Asian Carp by the net full, however they aren't doing that now on the Ohio river and won't any time soon because the price per pound for Flats/Blues (paylakes) is higher then what Asian Carp (Silver/Bighead) is going for.....


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

jake222 said:


> I like to keep carp and put them in a family members field and use as bait we have a big problem with quillback at Charles mill spillway


Quillback are native and are not carp. I cannot imagine any waterway having a quillback problem.


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

Sciotodarby said:


> I don't think comparing fish to deer is a good comparison. How many let true trophy bucks walk?


Just referring to how having good genetics in an area in general is so important for producing trophy class deer, since there was some confusion, I'll edit it out.


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

etheostoma said:


> Quillback are native and are not carp. I cannot imagine any waterway having a quillback problem.



There are so meany in there that you can't catch anything else when I say can't I mean your catching 500 quillback to 1 fish im not saying quilback are carp most people refer to them as carp I believe they are a member of the sucker family


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Mushijobah!


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## savethetrophies (Jul 4, 2014)

Bottom line is... Your in denial if you don't think the CF's have a negative impact on our sub par " trophy fishery "


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

savethetrophies said:


> Bottom line is... Your in denial if you don't think the CF's have a negative impact on our sub par " trophy fishery "



What is a CF?


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## ShoreFshrman (Sep 25, 2014)

jake222 said:


> So is it wrong to fish a pay lake? Can you guys give me your opinions on this one? Don't really want to go fish a pay lake if I gotta deal with nimrods and baby's who cry and wine when you have a big cat run I i their lines or the fish not living in a ok habitat



My two cents.....stay away!!! Actually never been but the things I've read and heard from friends is that pay lakes are like in ground aquariums, they have lots of fish that are fighting for little food. They also have people catch big fish and transport them to the lake. Not knocking the people who visit these lakes but I, myself, don't visit based on the conditions of a typical pay lake.

That said, if I looking for that "Big Cat" catch, I wouldn't you want to find the fish in a "natural lake" vs an aquarium. The thrill of the hunt, as it were.


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## jake222 (Dec 26, 2014)

Don't think I'll fish any pay lakes don't need every bob dick and Harry crossing my lines lol never thought they would be in a basic aquarium I thought they were raised by ODNR. Thanks everyone


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## Fisherman 3234 (Sep 8, 2008)

savethetrophies said:


> Bottom line is... Your in denial if you don't think the CF's have a negative impact on our sub par " trophy fishery "


No need to go after anyone, this thread is about educating fellow outdoorsmen about whats going on with our Trophy Catfish fishery. Jake, CF stands for Commercial Fishing or Fisherman.


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## EStrong (Jul 23, 2014)

Still doing research, found this in the process. I already knew this wasn't just an Ohio problem, it's an Ohio River problem. Be sure to read the comments at the end of the article, they sound like they were taken right from this thread. KY DNR seems to be the bad guy in this whole thing, allowing it to happen on the Ohio River.

Article:
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...-catfishermen-vs-commercial-pay-lake-stockers

Vid:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=664148887016890&pnref=story


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## Nate In Parma Hts (Jul 4, 2014)

Jake.. 

I'm not an experienced monster cat fisherman. I do most of my fishing from the shores of ponds, rivers, reservoirs, and Lake Erie up here in Northern Ohio. Never hooked into a big flattie, but I've caught a few decent blues, and channels ranging from a pound, up to 20 pounds. 

If I could suggest one place where you could consistently catch larger channels. Make a trip up to Sandusky Bay one of these days, and fish off the old bridge. I went there a few times last year, and it never disappointed. It would be worth going even once.


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## whodeynati (Mar 12, 2012)

EStrong said:


> Still doing research, found this in the process. I already knew this wasn't just an Ohio problem, it's an Ohio River problem. Be sure to read the comments at the end of the article, they sound like they were taken right from this thread. KY DNR seems to be the bad guy in this whole thing, allowing it to happen on the Ohio River.
> 
> Article:
> http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...-catfishermen-vs-commercial-pay-lake-stockers
> ...


Let's just say there are at least a couple of OGF'ers that commented. I'm "facebook" friends with with most that commented.


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

EStrong said:


> Still doing research, found this in the process. I already knew this wasn't just an Ohio problem, it's an Ohio River problem. Be sure to read the comments at the end of the article, they sound like they were taken right from this thread. KY DNR seems to be the bad guy in this whole thing, allowing it to happen on the Ohio River.
> 
> Article:
> http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...-catfishermen-vs-commercial-pay-lake-stockers
> ...


That is a great article to post EStrong, thanks for doing so. As I youngster I enjoyed fishing the paylakes... I simply didn't understand what was happening. I haven't went to one in over 10 years. 

I see social media posts of guys who frequent those lakes posting huge fish they have caught. It's so sad. Our country has become a place where people want the easy way out. I bet if many of the paylake crowd had to fish public waters to catch those monster flathead they would learn real quick its not easy in the real world...


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## EStrong (Jul 23, 2014)

whodeynati said:


> Let's just say there are at least a couple of OGF'ers that commented. I'm "facebook" friends with with most that commented.


Yep, I saw a name or two I recognized.



ML1187 said:


> That is a great article to post EStrong, thanks for doing so. As I youngster I enjoyed fishing the paylakes... I simply didn't understand what was happening. I haven't went to one in over 10 years.
> 
> I see social media posts of guys who frequent those lakes posting huge fish they have caught. It's so sad. Our country has become a place where people want the easy way out. I bet if many of the paylake crowd had to fish public waters to catch those monster flathead they would learn real quick its not easy in the real world...


Thanks! In my experiences with pay lakes, they've all been stocked with farm raised fish that were healthy, clean, and if you wanted to, you could take them home and safely eat them. On occasion some places had a fishing derby or big fish of the weekend contest but that was it. None of this big money, jackpot payout fishing that goes on now. I agree about the idiots posting pics of huge cats caught at these jackpot pay lakes. They would have a hard time catching anything in a river system or normal state park/county lake.

I know a couple of guys that like to go to a few of the "mudhole" jackpot pay lakes around here. They basically go to annoy these wanna-be anglers. They don't use bait, they just drag a grub or tube along the bottom and the cats absolutely crush them. The "regulars" get pissed because they deem that cheating, LOL! Most of these wanna-be anglers don't understand that in a natural environment, cats can and will be caught on many different types of artificials. Oh well.


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## BigFishHunter (Dec 14, 2011)

Nate In Parma Hts said:


> Jake..
> 
> I'm not an experienced monster cat fisherman. I do most of my fishing from the shores of ponds, rivers, reservoirs, and Lake Erie up here in Northern Ohio. Never hooked into a big flattie, but I've caught a few decent blues, and channels ranging from a pound, up to 20 pounds.


Where are you catching blues up there?


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

BigFishHunter said:


> Where are you catching blues up there?


I would have been surprised to see them that far from the big river, but I pretty much quit being surprised by where fish show up nowadays.


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## Nate In Parma Hts (Jul 4, 2014)

BigFishHunter said:


> Where are you catching blues up there?


I said I do most of my fishing up here, not all of it


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## BigFishHunter (Dec 14, 2011)

Nate In Parma Hts said:


> I said I do most of my fishing up here, not all of it


Alright.  I was only curious because I've heard of a few people claiming blues from up north, but to my knowledge they have never existed in northern waters. No one has produced a photo for verification so I still believe they aren't there.

I have a degree in fisheries management so I'm not just some weekend biologist. Lol


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## Nate In Parma Hts (Jul 4, 2014)

I've seen quite a few people think they've caught a blue up here in the Rocky River. Channels in the Rocky come out either looking like blues, or blotchy yellow and brown. The bluish ones are usually the larger ones, so people get excited when they bring it in. Then I go and bust their bubble by explaining the difference in the anal fins lol.


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

BigFishHunter said:


> Alright.  I was only curious because I've heard of a few people claiming blues from up north, but to my knowledge they have never existed in northern waters. No one has produced a photo for verification so I still believe they aren't there.
> 
> I have a degree in fisheries management so I'm not just some weekend biologist. Lol


I imagine that the farthest north blue cats would likely show up in Ohio would be in the upper reaches of the Scioto? Just making an educated guess due to the lack of dams and the size of the river. Well maybe not most northern, the Ohio itself goes farther north along the Flushing escarpment than the Scioto. So farthest away from the Ohio river. 

An awful lot of fishermen I know seem to call any catfish that is over ten pounds and is not a flathead a blue.


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

Nate In Parma Hts said:


> I've seen quite a few people think they've caught a blue up here in the Rocky River. Channels in the Rocky come out either looking like blues, or blotchy yellow and brown. The bluish ones are usually the larger ones, so people get excited when they bring it in. Then I go and bust their bubble by explaining the difference in the pectoral fins lol.


What is the difference in the pectoral fins? I know the difference in the anal fin, rounded versus straight, and a different ray count, but I had never noticed a difference in the pectoral fins. Higher placement in Blues?


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## Nate In Parma Hts (Jul 4, 2014)

etheostoma said:


> What is the difference in the pectoral fins? I know the difference in the anal fin, rounded versus straight, and a different ray count, but I had never noticed a difference in the pectoral fins. Higher placement in Blues?



DOH! I meant the anal fin... brain fart on my part.


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## etheostoma (Dec 25, 2014)

Nate In Parma Hts said:


> DOH! I meant the anal fin... brain fart on my part.


Darn, I thought I was going to get a good new ID tip on telling them apart. I see so few blue cats, that it is not really second nature for me.


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## EStrong (Jul 23, 2014)

Check out you guys, rockin the thread with SCIENCE! LOL... Just reading your posts I smeel farter, I mean feel smarter already.


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## BigFishHunter (Dec 14, 2011)

I assumed it was all miss identification on their part, but people do move fish around even though they shouldn't and are prohibited by law to do so. If you check the fish Ohio hot spots lake Erie is in the top 5 for blue cats even though this species doesn't exist in the fishery. The furthest north, excluding the Ohio river headwaters, I have knowledge of them being is Hoover reservoir. I haven't seen any past the greenlawn dam on the scioto. It's possible with the high water in the spring though.


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## murphy13 (Jun 30, 2013)

got a little tragedy of the commons going on....


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