# 22/410



## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

First, I need to thank the sponsors and web heads again for this helpful, entertaining & informative site, I was able to find and purchase a gun I was looking for from another OGF'er recently. Does anyone know if there any ODNR restrictions on using a 22/410 for deer hunting during the gun seasons...? HT


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

I would thing if it is an over and under 22/410 it would be carrying 2 guns that would be illegal to deer hunt....don't know for sure....just my opinion....call the odnr is the best way to find out


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## roger23 (Mar 7, 2007)

well I have been told you can not because of the .22 which is not legal for deer,,whether or not you have ammo with you,,,back in the 50's and early 60's many of us kids used them and the law never bothered us mainly because were very few deer I guess


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## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Anxious for others to chime in here and clear this up, I called ODNR District-5 today and they said -NO- at first, but I detected some uncertainty, so I asked them for an "official" answer. They called me back after about 15 minutes and said they had never had that question but "YES" you can use the gun , but you can not have 22 amo in possession.


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## roger23 (Mar 7, 2007)

Hardtop said:


> Anxious for others to chime in here and clear this up, I called ODNR District-5 today and they said -NO- at first, but I detected some uncertainty, so I asked them for an "official" answer. They called me back after about 15 minutes and said they had never had that question but "YES" you can use the gun , but you can not have 22 amo in possession.


that is interesting ,,,like duck hunting just don't get caught with lead,,,


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## roger23 (Mar 7, 2007)

1501:31-9-03 Regulations on the use of firearms on division owned or controlled areas.
(A) On any state public hunting area, or on any area under control of the division of wildlife by virtue of a lease, or agreement, it shall be unlawful for any person:

(1) To hunt within an area posted with Safety Zone signs on a cooperative or a controlled hunting area, without the prior permission of the landowner or tenant in control of such safety zone.

(2) To shoot a fully automatic firearm on a division owned, administered or controlled area including target ranges. Provided further, it shall be unlawful to use any trigger assisting devices to alter a firearm to shoot like a fully automatic firearm.

(3) To hunt within an area posted with division of wildlife No Hunting Zone signs.

(B) Prohibited times for using firearms on public hunting areas.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to use or hunt with a rifle, pistol or revolver from October fifteenth through January first during the daylight hours on any area listed in paragraph (A)(2) of rule 1501:31-15-04 of the Administrative Code, except when properly used on a designated division of wildlife target range or when hunting squirrels or while trapping furbearers with a rimfire rifle, or rimfire handgun or muzzleloading rifle of .40 caliber or smaller, or when deer hunting with a muzzleloading rifle or legal handgun during the deer gun season, the statewide muzzleloading season and the deer special muzzleloading season.

(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to use a rifle, pistol, revolver, shotgun or other firearm at any time on any land or water area owned, controlled or administered by the wildlife division except while lawfully trapping, or hunting wild animals, or target practicing on a designated division of wildlife target range. Target practice on a designated division of wildlife range shall be daily from sunrise to sunset unless posted by signs stating the hours the target range is open.

(3) It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot in any direction other than from the firing line down range to the target on any division of wildlife target range.

(4) It shall be unlawful for any person to use any type of target, other than a single sheet of paper on a division of wildlife target range, except that clay targets may be used on division of wildlife target ranges equipped for trap and skeet only.

(5) It shall be unlawful to use a shotgun or rifle loaded with any projectile other than shot on a designated shotgun range. Shotguns firing rifled slugs or single projectiles may be used on designated rifle ranges.

(6) It shall be unlawful for any person to fail to leave a division of wildlife shooting range when so ordered by a division of wildlife employee. Provided further, it shall be unlawful to violate any range rules established at any division of wildlife target range.

(7) It shall be unlawful to use shotshells on any division of wildlife target range, which has a lead containment system which is designed for single projectiles of lead or other single metal projectiles.

(8) It shall be unlawful to use any explosive target that when shot will cause another explosion to occur.

(9) It shall be unlawful for any person to enter a division of wildlife class A range before he or she signs in on a form provided by the range attendant.

(10) It shall be unlawful to fire any weapon in a repeated manner that causes the person firing the weapon to fail to completely control the muzzle of the weapon.

(C) Areas having limited or no firearm use:

(1) It is unlawful for any person to use a rifle, pistol, or revolver at any time on the Lake park, Aquilla, and Grant lake state public hunting areas.

(2) It is unlawful for any person to use a rifle, pistol, or revolver at any time on the Auburn marsh state public hunting area. Shotguns may be used only to take migratory birds, rabbits, pheasants, squirrel, and quail during the open season prescribed for such species or on designated target range areas.

(D) Supervised rifle and pistol ranges shall be designated class A target ranges. Class A ranges are located at the following wildlife areas: Spring Valley, Deer Creek, Grand river, Delaware and Woodbury. It shall be unlawful for persons age eighteen or older to use class A ranges except when the person has made application and received from the chief of the division of wildlife a Range Permit, the fee for which shall be twenty-three dollars and a one dollar writing fee annually. The Range Permit shall begin the first day of March of the current year and expire on the last day of February of the following year. Provided further, individuals who do not hold an annual Range Permit may use the class A ranges for a fee of four dollars and a one dollar writing fee per day. Persons seventeen and under must be accompanied by an adult holding a valid Range Permit. There shall be a three dollar fee for reissuing a range permit.

(E) Unsupervised rifle and pistol target ranges shall be designated class B target ranges.

(F) Unsupervised shotgun ranges where clay targets are used shall be designated class C target ranges.

(G) Unsupervised archery target ranges shall be designated as class D archery target ranges.

(H) It shall be unlawful to use a class A range unless the shooter first registers with the range supervisor.

(I) It shall be unlawful to use, place, or shoot at any target on a class A or class B range except in the designated target area, or to shoot from any place except the firing line.

(J) It shall be unlawful to leave target materials, other than clay pigeons on any range owned or controlled by the division.

(K) It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot a cannon on any division range.

(L) It shall be unlawful for any person to use tracer ammunition on any division of wildlife owned, controlled, or administered property.

(M) It shall be unlawful for any person to use a division of wildlife target range when designated closed.

(N) It shall be unlawful to use any shot size larger than number 6 lead or number 4 steel on a class C range.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

A Deer Hunter CANNOT do any of the following:

1.Hunt or take a deer with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells. This means you may not hunt with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells, unless it is plugged with a one-piece filler
which limits the capacity of the gun to three shells. The fi ller must be such that it cannot be removed without disassembling the gun.
2.Hunt with any rifle during the deer gun, the youth deer gun, the Early Muzzleloader hunts (Salt Fork Wildlife Area, Wildcat Hollow, and Shawnee State Forest), and the statewide muzzleloader seasons other than a muzzleloading rifl e .38 caliber or larger.


..... i wouldn't chance it.


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

from how everyone i know and myself understand the rule is: you can use guns that are capable of using a illegal caliber as long as the ammunition you have in your possession is legal for the game you are pursuing, here are a couple examples.

the 22/410 as long as you only posess .410 slugs

Taurus' new Circuit Judge .45LC/.410
this is not a pistol since it has a 22in barrel and a shoulder stock
and all your standard shotguns you cannot posess ammo that you are not allowed to harvest deer with during gun season. 
a friend of mine is hunting this year with a Circuit Judge with .410 shells

i know there are more examples i just can't think of any right now. 
Evin


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

Circuit judge is a NO NO! The cylinder holds more than three rounds. The unused chambers do not qualify as "plugged" because even with snap caps in them, the gun does not have to be dis-assembled to "plug" them. Straight from the DNR-DOW. Also was written about in the Ohio Outdoor News. October issue I believe.


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

thanks huntinbull i will relay the info to him. i didn't even think about the capacity. i guess i still was thinking it was a pistol or something. cause it makes sence thanks again!


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## CRAPPIE LOVER (Feb 11, 2007)

roger23...You are right about the 50 & 60's..I had a Savage over and under 22 on top 20 Gauge on the bottom...I called it my turkey gun...I did hunt deer with slugs and as you said no one ever questioned it...That was then this is now...And today they are always looking for a reason to bust us gunmen...So much for my 2 cents....JIM....CL....


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## Brad617 (Apr 12, 2006)

Huntinbull said:


> Circuit judge is a NO NO! The cylinder holds more than three rounds. The unused chambers do not qualify as "plugged" because even with snap caps in them, the gun does not have to be dis-assembled to "plug" them. Straight from the DNR-DOW. Also was written about in the Ohio Outdoor News. October issue I believe.


If the above statement is true that means I cant hunt deer with my single six 44 mag. revolver. As i put 6 in every time!


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## katfish (Apr 7, 2004)

Hardtop

On a completely different track, I would like to suggest you use a more appropriate gun for deer hunting.

Many states agree that 410 shotgun caliber to be too small for an ethical harvest of deer. The smaller slug size means the chances of deer not recovered are too high for them to risk. Smaller slugs result in lower kinetic energy (knock down power).

Many game departments agree that 20 guage is the smallest deer slug to do the job. Hopefully you can find a more appropriate firearm to kill deer. I hate to think of wounded deer being finished off by coyotes.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

ironman172 said:


> I would thing if it is an over and under 22/410 it would be carrying 2 guns that would be illegal to deer hunt....don't know for sure....just my opinion....call the odnr is the best way to find out


Back in the early 70's, when deer hunting in Ohio was more miss than "hit", I started hunting with a 12 ga. o/u. Taped a piece of alum. flashing with a v-groove cut into it to the rib just above the forearm and made it a two shot automatic. I'd line the front bead into the bottom of the vee, and knew from practice that at 50 yds, it shot 3" high and 3" to the right. All I had to do was compensate the aim for that wee error and killed several deer with it. Then I got serious and bought the Ithica Deerslayer(they named that one right!!) with a Leupold Duplex pistol scope, with infinite eye relief, mounted on the back rifle sight.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

katfish said:


> Hardtop
> 
> On a completely different track, I would like to suggest you use a more appropriate gun for deer hunting.
> 
> ...


i believe the .410 slug is bigger and carries more energy than a .357 bullet. yet it is one of the most popular pistol round.


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

Bad Bub said:


> i believe the .410 slug is bigger and carries more energy than a .357 bullet. yet it is one of the most popular pistol round.


My research has shown that the .410 slug is similiar in power to a .357 Magnum round. I suggest that anyone considering using the .410 slug on deer, use a solid lead Brenneke slug. The Foster style of slug might not get as much penetration because it mushrooms so quickly. In my opinion, a .410 would be fine for head and neck shots at about 25 yards or less on a deer at a bait pile. That would be more of a "controlled" shooting situation - than a surprise shot at a moving animal.


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## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Thanks for the input guys, the 410 will be used to start some Grandkids in the next few years. We have several buddy stands where Dad/Grandpa can sit with them and teach them how to hunt and carefully place shots without fearing a sore shoulder from bigger guns. The 410 will be a close range gun, kind of like crossbow range for us at 50yds & less. I feel "knock down" power of a 12 ga. is way over rated.....and lets sloppy hunters blaze away at moving deer, rather than limiting shots to still deer and better ranges. I have killed many deer with my 20 guage, it's more about where your slug hits than how big it is......send one thru the boiler cage ( even a 410 ), and size doesn't reall matter.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

Brad, a pistol or revolver has no limit as to the amount of ammunition it can carry when used as a hunting implement. the circuit judge is a revolving rifle. the cylinder hold 5 rounds of either 45 long colt or 410 shotgun ammo. It is illegal to use for deer because of the above mentioned reasons. The rules for hunting with a pistol and hunting with a shotgun differ.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

Brad617 said:


> If the above statement is true that means I cant hunt deer with my single six 44 mag. revolver. As i put 6 in every time!


The above statement this post references is true. Read post above this one.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

Bad Bub,
the average .410 slug weighs less than 100 grains. and being a foster type slug, is basically a hollow shell of lead, little thicker than a thimble. Often breaks apart on impact, causing loss of penetration. There are several studies published online about this.


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## Hardtop (Nov 24, 2004)

Another question about this gun, after mounting a scope, if use the 22 chamber to sight the thing in at say.....50yds, how close would we expect the .410 slug to be.....?


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

I think you would have to try it to see..I am with others on here though that would suggest stepping it up to 20g...Having shot both,I dont think the recoil is significantly that much worse in the 20g..I know you said it was for kids,and they didnt wanna get sore shoulders from a 20g,so why not practice with the .410 and break the 20g out as deer season gets close?..I applaud you for wanting to get kids in the woods..But not being able to use the right tool for the job because of child issues should maybe mean you should try to hold off on them hunting deer til the can use a 20g..Thats why there are companies makin a youth gun in 20g..Its not just about the power,but the better slug options as well...I wouldnt want the deer to suffer from bein shot by someone who was to young/small to be able to use the right tool for the job...


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