# Commercial fisherman bragging about killing fish...



## JimmyMac

Just saw this posted on Ohio Valley Catfishing Federation facebook page a few minutes ago, pretty pathetic and ignorant. 










Here was the caption next to the photo "Ohio River commercial catfishermen made that sign and wasted these 30+ year old catfish just to thumb their nose at the Indiana and Kentucky anglers who have been pushing for better regulation on Trophy size Catfish."


Notice all the dead fish on the floor behind them?...


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## jonnythfisherteen2

some one should just smack the crud out them. think they might be jealous cause the anglers can catch the fish in any other way other than scooping them up with a net?


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## Curtis937

That's just sad..

Bunch of wanna be tough guys they should be fined for poaching game fish 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## pendog66

check out they're Paddlefish pictures.... these guys are ate up


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## CarpFreak5328

I think im gonna be sick!!!!! Think how good are fisheries would be if if weren't for a-holes like that


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## Burks

Looks like a total IQ of 100 split between all three of them...


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## KaGee

Everyone check your emotions at the door.
There is no way of knowing where that picture came from. 
It was posted by the Ohio Valley Catfishing Federation on their Facebook page to elicit an emotional response. So far it's worked.

How do you know for sure those guys are commercial fisherman fishing on the Ohio? Realistically that photo could have been shot anywhere. Without documentation it's really worthless and with Photoshop, people can do amazing things... like adding or changing supposed signs on the door. I know, it's on the internet, it must be true.


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## pendog66

KaGee said:


> Everyone check your emotions at the door.
> There is no way of knowing where that picture came from.
> It was posted by the Ohio Valley Catfishing Federation on their Facebook page to elicit an emotional response. So far it's worked.
> 
> How do you know for sure those guys are commercial fisherman fishing on the Ohio? Realistically that photo could have been shot anywhere. Without documentation it's really worthless and with Photoshop, people can do amazing things... like adding or changing supposed signs on the door. *I did research and found out,WOW its true!!!![/B]*


*


Because they have entire website for their paddlefish and Catfish harvest. And yes that sign is on the website. Here ya go KaGee!
http://www.midwestcaviar.net/the-days-catch.html

""OUR FISH ARE CAUGHT ON THE BEAUTIFUL OHIO RIVER AND WE PROCESS THE CAVIAR IN OUR H.A.C.C.P. APPROVED FACILITY"

These are also the same guys trying to export ohio river catfish overseas... So yes that post should have a reaction out of the Ohio Catfisherman*


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## KaGee

pendog66 said:


> Because they have entire website for their paddlefish and Catfish harvest. And yes that sign is on the website. Here ya go KaGee!
> http://www.midwestcaviar.net/the-days-catch.html
> 
> *""OUR FISH ARE CAUGHT ON THE BEAUTIFUL OHIO RIVER AND WE PROCESS THE CAVIAR IN OUR H.A.C.C.P. APPROVED FACILITY"*
> 
> These are also the same guys trying to export ohio river catfish overseas... So yes that post should have a reaction out of the Ohio Catfisherman


Where is that attribution on Ohio Valley Catfishing Federation Facebook? I didn't see it. 

And if you are going to quote anyone, is suggest you don't edit the quote.


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## pendog66

KaGee said:


> Where is that attribution on Ohio Valley Catfishing Federation Facebook? I didn't see it.
> 
> And if you are going to quote anyone, is suggest you don't edit the quote.


i edited the quote to put out your lack of knowledge on the subject. The picture was pulled from a thread on Catfish1 in the Indiana section. The people in that group on facebook are all on Catfish1 and know the topic. 

This is just further proof OGF needs a catfish mod that is active in catfishing and knows whats happening to the resource


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## KaGee

pendog66 said:


> i edited the quote to put out your lack of knowledge on the subject. The picture was pulled from a thread on Catfish1 in the Indiana section. The people in that group on facebook are all on Catfish1 and know the topic.
> 
> This is just further proof OGF needs a catfish mod that is active in catfishing and knows whats happening to the resource


No, what we need are members to discuss topics with a level head and abide by the TOS. Something that seems difficult for contributors in the CATFISH forum at times.

As I type this, there are several visitors viewing this thread. For the OP or YOU to assume any reader of this thread is from Catfish1 and familiar with the picture shown and it's original source is a huge stretch. 

Anybody can post anything on Facebook. Proper attribution answers a lot of questions.


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## pendog66

KaGee said:


> No, what we need are members to discuss topics with a level head and abide by the TOS. Something that seems difficult for contributors in the CATFISH forum at times.
> 
> As I type this, there are several visitors viewing this thread. For the OP or YOU to assume any reader of this thread is from Catfish1 and familiar with the picture shown and it's original source is a huge stretch.
> 
> Anybody can post anything on Facebook. Proper attribution answers a lot of questions.



If anything these visitors reading the thread should be intrigued to find the pictures source. A quick google search brings you right to the original thread and website it was taken from. And lets face it, those people arent here to join the site they are TROLLING for information.

I know for a fact if Bass, Walleye and Musky were under the over harvesting assault catfish is in. YOU and everyone else would be blowing this website up with complaints. But as soon as its about catfish " Well lets be level headed guys" Even when the facts are there for you to find


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## Joey209

pendog66 said:


> If anything these visitors reading the thread should be intrigued to find the pictures source. A quick google search brings you right to the original thread and website it was taken from. And lets face it, those people arent here to join the site they are TROLLING for information.
> 
> I know for a fact if Bass, Walleye and Musky were under the over harvesting assault catfish is in. YOU and everyone else would be blowing this website up with complaints. But as soon as its about catfish " Well lets be level headed guys" Even when the facts are there for you to find


Truth tellin right here. Ive talked to DNR about guys keeping more than there bag limit on big flatheads and guys tryin to buy big flatheads off people to sell to paylakes and more than once I have heard "its just a catfish". This is why I love using Bass for catfish bait  :B


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## throbak

I know the Picture and have looked at the Midwest Cavier site , I am Familiar wiith The Owner He showed up at the Indiana DNR Open house Remember the Face of the One kneeling And Dont be suprized if you see him at Xenia, If Ohio wants to keep their CF reg,s in place as I do and my wish is Indiana can do the same with the outlawing of CF,s You NEED to Know What you are up against That pic is posted by them Midwest cavier on their site under buyers I will be at Xenia as a sport fisherman presence for Ohio will you??? I would say most if not all Know of Catfish 1 and I will go out on a limb and say they also know who James Reed Is David Cox Is Indiana,s Reed sorry to say


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## backupbait

I was planning on going but my schedule got changed . I have read where some of these gillnetters for paddelfish caviar are making 100-400 thousand dollars a season. It would be interesting to find out just how many other speices of fish get killed in these nets. From Nov to to April the Ky side of the Ohio River is loaded full of these gillnets. We need as many sportfishermen who are able to show up at this meeting so the officials in Ohio know how we feel about commercial fishing.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

pendog66 said:


> If anything these visitors reading the thread should be intrigued to find the pictures source. A quick google search brings you right to the original thread and website it was taken from. And lets face it, those people arent here to join the site they are TROLLING for information.
> 
> I know for a fact if Bass, Walleye and Musky were under the over harvesting assault catfish is in. YOU and everyone else would be blowing this website up with complaints. But as soon as its about catfish " Well lets be level headed guys" Even when the facts are there for you to find


its probably because everyone thinks that catfish are ugly rough fish.


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## Fisherman 3234

This is ridiculous..... hopefully karma will kick in and a meteor will crash on that place. This has got to stop......


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## JimmyMac

It is a little hard to check your emotions at the door here. The picture is legit no photoshop, you can see for yourself with info provided by others in this thread. Even without the sign altogether the picture speaks for itself... The trophy catfish dead all over the place in the pic and three men smiling about it, no reason to doubt the sign whatsoever.


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## Salmonid

As far as TBULLs meassage regarding Commercial fishing I totally agree with it and Travis "IS" the local expert on this effort to save our fisheries. He does make several good points about questioning the viability of the pic and also how most of the quality catfish guys have indeed left this forum and have saved thereselves for lurking mode, I do know this with many of my tournament buddies. 

The bottom line is that our inland and Ohio River fisheries are taking a beating like most on here can not understand, perhaps if every public lake had hundreds of hoop nets along your favorite bank targeting LM or walleyes to be sent to pay ponds only then would folks understand. as of now every major river in southern Ohio has thousands of trotlines or limblines and every Tom Dick or Harry selling those fish to payponds along wwith the hundreds of nets setup daily right through Cinci on the Ohio, hardly makes it able to run anywhere but down the barge lanes. Again previous posters on this subject are harsh and rash because we are VERY passionate about our fisheries and $already have a tough time relaying our concerns to ODNR ( who typically are very "Reactive" vs being "Proactive" where they use a scientific approach to making policy changes) and we are looking for serious support from other anglers besides catfish anglers. 

Just a followup to most who think a catfish tourney is limited to hicks wearing wifebeaters and getting drunk, its a tough sterotype to shake but i can tell you that on the major trails, folks travelling year round to nationwide events where everyone has boat wraps, sponsors and $50+ K rigs and it wont be long the BASS events you are watching now on TV will soon be catfish events. For the last 7-8 years the catfish industry has been the "Fastest" growing segment of fishing nationwide and the DNR's of the country are grateful as it is the segment that has actually boosted license sales in many states. Just some facts for the doubters in the arena.

Back to the point, the future of the sport of catfishing in Ohio may very well be determined in the next few months by our own DNR. Presently KY DNR is all for allowing commercial fishing and over the last few years Ohio has allowed it along its own banks with no enforcement and they ( Commercial fisherman) are pushing Ohio to open up even more water for them to harvest since they know there is ZERO enforcement and this is where we are pushing DNR to not only stand there ground but to start enforcing its own laws towards the KY CF who use ohios ramps and distribute fish with zero enforcement when the laws are already in place, just convieniently being overlooked at this time. Frankly we as catfishermen are fed up with double standards and are trying to hold down the fight, that is where "we" the crazy catfish guys are coming from. 

Sorry for the rant guys....
Salmonid


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## sbreech

I'm not a dedicated catfisherman by any means, but TBull... I have to agree with you on the topic of this one. Every sportfish should be afforded the protection and respect as spelled out in the laws.


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## Doctor

This will get locked down I'm sure but while it lasted very good posts by all, see you all Saturday in Xenia wish I had a "Save our Catfish" shirt to wear down there...............Doc


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## pendog66

there appears to be something missing.....


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## bigdogsteve-o

hmmm further proof of catfish being swept under a rug??? Atleast give a reason for deleting.... Facts hurt?


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## SConner

I deleted the post and why is between me as the moderator the the person whos post was deleted.


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## VBowler

I will be at the meeting. I will be addressing the Wildlife law enforcement officers asking why they overlook the existing laws. If they blow off the answer then we escalate the subject press and then our local state representatives.


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## JimmyMac

Salmonid said:


> As far as TBULLs meassage regarding Commercial fishing I totally agree with it and Travis "IS" the local expert on this effort to save our fisheries. He does make several good points about *questioning the viability of the pic* and also how most of the quality catfish guys have indeed left this forum and have saved thereselves for lurking mode, I do know this with many of my tournament buddies.
> 
> The bottom line is that our inland and Ohio River fisheries are taking a beating like most on here can not understand, perhaps if every public lake had hundreds of hoop nets along your favorite bank targeting LM or walleyes to be sent to pay ponds only then would folks understand. as of now every major river in southern Ohio has thousands of trotlines or limblines and every Tom Dick or Harry selling those fish to payponds along wwith the hundreds of nets setup daily right through Cinci on the Ohio, hardly makes it able to run anywhere but down the barge lanes. Again previous posters on this subject are harsh and rash because we are VERY passionate about our fisheries and $already have a tough time relaying our concerns to ODNR ( who typically are very "Reactive" vs being "Proactive" where they use a scientific approach to making policy changes) and we are looking for serious support from other anglers besides catfish anglers.
> 
> Just a followup to most who think a catfish tourney is limited to hicks wearing wifebeaters and getting drunk, its a tough sterotype to shake but i can tell you that on the major trails, folks travelling year round to nationwide events where everyone has boat wraps, sponsors and $50+ K rigs and it wont be long the BASS events you are watching now on TV will soon be catfish events. For the last 7-8 years the catfish industry has been the "Fastest" growing segment of fishing nationwide and the DNR's of the country are grateful as it is the segment that has actually boosted license sales in many states. Just some facts for the doubters in the arena.
> 
> Back to the point, the future of the sport of catfishing in Ohio may very well be determined in the next few months by our own DNR. Presently KY DNR is all for allowing commercial fishing and over the last few years Ohio has allowed it along its own banks with no enforcement and they ( Commercial fisherman) are pushing Ohio to open up even more water for them to harvest since they know there is ZERO enforcement and this is where we are pushing DNR to not only stand there ground but to start enforcing its own laws towards the KY CF who use ohios ramps and distribute fish with zero enforcement when the laws are already in place, just convieniently being overlooked at this time. Frankly we as catfishermen are fed up with double standards and are trying to hold down the fight, that is where "we" the crazy catfish guys are coming from.
> 
> Sorry for the rant guys....
> Salmonid


Here is a few more from the same guys. 

























Here is the website the pics are from. 
http://www.midwestcaviar.net/home.html


While I would rather see catfish at least being harvested for food like these guys apparently do, rather than for paylake stocking, I still don't understand why they are doing with TROPHY size CATFISH. It appears they target the spoonbills for their caviar...


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## acklac7

VBowler said:


> If they blow off the answer then we escalate the subject press and then our local state representatives.


Been saying this for a long time and i'll say it again here, the only way anything is going to change is if the DNR becomes an Elected office rather then appointed. Until then goodluck.


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## rustyfish

Anyone who thinks it would be hard to fish out a large river just need to do some research on comm fishing on our oceans. Manys comm fishermans avg size of fish caught got smaller and smaller over many years until no more fish. Then realized the fish they had been catching for the past ten years had not even reached spawning size yet. This happens mostly with fish that grow slow and live long (flathead), nature has no need for these fish to reproduce fast. This has happened with many different species. When was the last time you saw orange roughy in the stores, I grew up eating that and im only 28. 

Lake Erie Blue pike? I know pollution tends to take the blame for that one but the comm fishing couldnt have helped. And some people think comm fishing was the main cause of their extinction.

Comm fish in the south is one thing, the fish grow faster. They have warm weather and longer growing seasons, so the waters are a little more forgiving. The ohio river is not the place for comm fishing!

If you guys mean what you say on here, look and see where he fish you buy at the store comes from. If it is not farm raised then your are paying for guys like this to go out and do this. I know lots of us catch our own fish to eat and I see no problem with that at all. But if you do buy fish, just look around. There are fish farmers all over this state- trout, bluegill, yellow perch, bass, catfish, shrimp. You can buy it farm raised from your neighbours.


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## Bass-Chad

rustyfish said:


> Anyone who thinks it would be hard to fish out a large river just need to do some research on comm fishing on our oceans. Manys comm fishermans avg size of fish caught got smaller and smaller over many years until no more fish. Then realized the fish they had been catching for the past ten years had not even reached spawning size yet. This happens mostly with fish that grow slow and live long (flathead), nature has no need for these fish to reproduce fast. This has happened with many different species. When was the last time you saw orange roughy in the stores, I grew up eating that and im only 28.
> 
> Lake Erie Blue pike? I know pollution tends to take the blame for that one but the comm fishing couldnt have helped. And some people think comm fishing was the main cause of their extinction.
> 
> Comm fish in the south is one thing, the fish grow faster. They have warm weather and longer growing seasons, so the waters are a little more forgiving. The ohio river is not the place for comm fishing!
> 
> If you guys mean what you say on here, look and see where he fish you buy at the store comes from. If it is not farm raised then your are paying for guys like this to go out and do this. I know lots of us catch our own fish to eat and I see no problem with that at all. But if you do buy fish, just look around. There are fish farmers all over this state- trout, bluegill, yellow perch, bass, catfish, shrimp. You can buy it farm raised from your neighbours.


I actually had Orange Roughy 2 nights ago. It was at Springfield Giant Eagle (frozen but, that is how I had it my entire life). Anyways, the pictures have been doctored look at the sign, makes me doubt the entire thing.


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## pendog66

Bass-Chad said:


> I actually had Orange Roughy 2 nights ago. It was at Springfield Giant Eagle (frozen but, that is how I had it my entire life). Anyways, the pictures have been doctored look at the sign, makes me doubt the entire thing.


Its on the official website???? And you have never met these guys, they are legitimately all for killing fish.


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## Joey209

Bass-Chad said:


> I actually had Orange Roughy 2 nights ago. It was at Springfield Giant Eagle (frozen but, that is how I had it my entire life). Anyways, the pictures have been doctored look at the sign, makes me doubt the entire thing.


Are you kidding? Why would the guys at Midwest Caviar photoshop a sign into ALL their pictures on THEIR website????


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## JimmyMac

Bass-Chad said:


> I actually had Orange Roughy 2 nights ago. It was at Springfield Giant Eagle (frozen but, that is how I had it my entire life). Anyways, the pictures have been doctored look at the sign, makes me doubt the entire thing.


What is there to doubt? Commercial fisherman aren't a secret society, you see them first hand on the Ohio. The pics aren't doctored, scroll up and look at the proof.


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## backupbait

@ Bass Chad: Did you bother to check out the website these guys have?? It blows me away how they can give out so many nutritional facts about their caviar on their website and not have to mention one thing about it containing high levels of mercury, PCBs, chlordane and toxins. Or the fact that pregnant women should not consume.


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## landarcjedi

This is a sad sight for sure. Tragedy of the Commons. I had no idea, thanks for letting the rest of us know.


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## bigcatjoe

Regulations need to be put in place and strictly enforced. See how much these guys like making those faces behind bars.

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## acklac7

bigcatjoe said:


> Regulations need to be put in place and strictly enforced. See how much these guys like making those faces behind bars.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Regulations are in place, the DNR just doesn't enforce them.

In 18 years of fishing rivers and streams (primarily for Smallmouth Bass) I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen the DNR...

Outside of the Muamee Walleye run the DNR simply does not care what happens to the fish in our rivers and streams. Simply pathetic.


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## MassillonBuckeye

Don't the trot and jug lines have to be manned? I thought the law said they had to be manned, therefore lines hanging all over the place would be illegal? I'm surprised we don't have some "whale wars" type stuff going on down there..


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## backupbait

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Don't the trot and jug lines have to be manned? I thought the law said they had to be manned, therefore lines hanging all over the place would be illegal? I'm surprised we don't have some "whale wars" type stuff going on down there..


In Ohio, jugs have to be manned, limb lines and trot lines have to be checked every 24 hours. In KY and IN the commercial fishermen are allowed to use gill nets that extend from the shoreline to the middle of the river and they use trot lines that extend allmost all the way across the river.


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## lark101_1999

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/house/hsemembers.htm think ill make a few calls .also on that face book page take a min to sign there petition


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## bsmith

I'm concerned about commercial catfishing. It would stand to reason that taking such large, breeding adults out of our rivers with little regulation is not a sustainable practice. Someone already hinted on this but we need only look at what we've done to our oceans. I clearly remember a staggering statistic that I saw in an ecology book a couple years ago. Since 1950 there has been a 90% reduction in large fish in the ocean. Let's think about that another way. The population of large fish in the ocean is only 10% of what it was 62 years ago. The book said that this was largely due to overfishing.

Realistically though, I'm just as concerned about the paddlefish. Here's a map from the USGS that shows the risk levels of paddlefish populations by state. Assuming that the bulk of the paddlefish are in the Ohio River, it doesn't really make sense that they are listed as "Endangered/Threatened/Species of Special Concern" in Ohio but "Stable" in Indiana and Kentucky. Last time I looked at the map, the Ohio formed the ENTIRE Ohio/Kentucky and Indiana/Kentucky border. Unless I'm mistaken and the bulk of the paddlefish are inhabiting the smaller rivers in these states, this is just not possible.


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## E_Lin

This thread is really eye opening. I have always gathered that no one wanted to give help to people harvesting catfish for selfish for "business" purposes, but I never realized the problem was as bad as it is. Those pictures are disgusting. It is humbling to see my ignorance revealed not only to others but myself as well now. I will never again have anything to say about other fisherman's reluctance to give "help" when it comes to catfishing. I can't believe the smug look on those guys faces as they show off their "catch".


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## throbak

And I think that is common most people just dont know


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## Curtis937

One thing I realized by reading these postings and some Google searching is that most of the Ohio river is regulated and owned by other states I did not realize that at all 

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## pendog66

Curtis937 said:


> One thing I realized by reading these postings and some Google searching is that most of the *Ohio river is regulated and owned by other states *I did not realize that at all
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Hit the nail on the head and the blocking point of new regulations


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## Fishaholic69

Wow! Humans.... I sometimes think we should cull the herd! lol


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## Bucket Mouth

landarcjedi said:


> Tragedy of the Commons.


Bingo. Public areas = abuse, poaching, and overharvesting, whether it's land or water.


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## pendog66

you guys need to get on the federation page on facebook. Apparently TruTV is possibly starting a tv show about Pay Lakes..... This truly would be a living nightmare for the sport.... Especially when the show will be in Ohio


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## wedebrook

acklac7 said:


> In 18 years of fishing rivers and streams (primarily for Smallmouth Bass) I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen the DNR...


Agreed. When I was stationed in Missouri, I fished quite a bit. There were days when I would get checked three times by three different wildlife officers, and I was fishing the same spot all day! Since moving back to Ohio(2008), I have been approached probably 5 times or less, and all were while fishing Burr Oak Lake. Two of those visits were for surveys!


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## wedebrook

bsmith said:


> I'm concerned about commercial catfishing. It would stand to reason that taking such large, breeding adults out of our rivers with little regulation is not a sustainable practice. Someone already hinted on this but we need only look at what we've done to our oceans. I clearly remember a staggering statistic that I saw in an ecology book a couple years ago. Since 1950 there has been a 90% reduction in large fish in the ocean. Let's think about that another way. The population of large fish in the ocean is only 10% of what it was 62 years ago. The book said that this was largely due to overfishing.
> 
> Realistically though, I'm just as concerned about the paddlefish. Here's a map from the USGS that shows the risk levels of paddlefish populations by state. Assuming that the bulk of the paddlefish are in the Ohio River, it doesn't really make sense that they are listed as "Endangered/Threatened/Species of Special Concern" in Ohio but "Stable" in Indiana and Kentucky. Last time I looked at the map, the Ohio formed the ENTIRE Ohio/Kentucky and Indiana/Kentucky border. Unless I'm mistaken and the bulk of the paddlefish are inhabiting the smaller rivers in these states, this is just not possible.


To me, that map shows a stable population in the Mississippi River, and slightly upstream from the Mississippi in its tributaries, such as the Ohio. If you follow the Ohio River backwards from the Mississippi to Pennsylvania, you can see that the populations obviously shrink as you go upstream.


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## pendog66

i wonder what percentage of the states in blue allow commercial fishing. it wouldnt be smart to admit a declining population if you allow it. just a thought


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