# Ohio changing out of state rules?



## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

My cousin sent me a message saying that Oh was going to change the way it does out of state tags. Below came to him from someone else. Anyone know if there is any truth to it?

"no more buying over the counter for Ohio. Dray only starting next season for non Ohio residents. You will have to buy preference points and each unit requires a certain amount of points before you can draw. Say Scioto county takes 4 points, to be eligible to draw a tag it will take you 4 years to get drawn and tags will be $325-425.00 ea if drawn"

That was a quote he sent me from the book of faces. I have not heard anything about it, but I am not the first to know anything by any means.


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## caseyroo (Jun 26, 2006)

Sure hope there is some truth to it


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

If true ...that makes perfect sense.

Start rant...
A financially struggling ODNR has done a wonderful job setting excessive bag limits reducing our herd to the point that out of state hunters at the current price are already opting to spend their hard earned $'s going to states other than Ohio. 
Why not make it more expensive and continue reducing the herd and drive even more $'s away from this state.
What a way to run a railroad!

Wasn't Kasich just on TV the other day talking about Ohio being on the verge of a possible recession?
So let's not make it more attractive to come here and spend $...lets keep making it less attractive. 

And if this recession happens, and history repeats itself, I don't think I'd miss my guess in saying ODNR will feel the wrath of the state tax $ cuts as much or more than any other state dept. Might even affect ODNR to the point that those top ODNR officials that have been making the decisions for the last 4-5 years by not reducing bags limits enough resulting in ruining a multi-million $ deer hunting industry in this state will have to seek employment elsewhere. 
Maybe the mighty insurance companies will step in and make up the $ difference.

Sadly there will 1st have to be those that actually work out in the field for ODNR that will have to go 1st. 

Rant over.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I highly doubt that story that was sent to you


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

With hunter numbers dwindling I suspect that won't be happening but only time will tell. It will be interesting to see if there is a reduction in bag limits, season dates or any other rule changes. 
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

fastwater said:


> If true ...that makes perfect sense.
> 
> Start rant...
> A financially struggling ODNR has done a wonderful job setting excessive bag limits reducing our herd to the point that out of state hunters at the current price are already opting to spend their hard earned $'s going to states other than Ohio.
> ...


I'm sorry, but your rant makes absolutely no sense to me! I agree that the ODNR set exceedingly generous bag limits. I've also said that they realized that the situation had gotten away from them, and have throttled back. I've also been on record as opposing the ability of out of state hunters to purchase buck and/or doe tags OTC at the same price as Ohio residents. Show me a state where I, as an out of stater, can do the same?

Most state game laws are set up to protect resident hunters. How many threads have we seen where guys were booted out of land they used to hunt because out of staters leased the place? And the deer are still out there. I see pics of monster bucks every day! If you're not seeing them, maybe you need to work a little harder! 



garhtr said:


> With hunter numbers dwindling I suspect that won't be happening but only time will tell. It will be interesting to see if there is a reduction in bag limits, season dates or any other rule changes.
> Good luck and Good Hunting !


Is anyone paying attention? There has already been a reduction in bag limits and rule changes! Sheesh! Sometimes being on here is like talking to a wall!


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## UNCLEMIKE (Jul 23, 2014)

Yep, we got Tele cheat and a bonus gun. That's gonna make a difference alright! I agree though it is like talking to a wall... both to the DOW and to some that still have good hunting. The number of those that have lost good deer hunting opportunities is growing each year.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

[QUOTE="buckeyebowman, post: 2256652, member: 32292"
Is anyone paying attention? There has already been a reduction in bag limits and rule changes! Sheesh! Sometimes being on here is like talking to a wall![/QUOTE]
Yea I'm paying attention, Read this forum and talk to other hunters most( I talk to ) are not happy with with the current regs and I think there will be more changes coming, Just my Opinion.
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

buckeyebowman said:


> I'm sorry, but your rant makes absolutely no sense to me! I agree that the ODNR set exceedingly generous bag limits. I've also said that they realized that the situation had gotten away from them, and have throttled back. I've also been on record as opposing the ability of out of state hunters to purchase buck and/or doe tags OTC at the same price as Ohio residents. Show me a state where I, as an out of stater, can do the same?
> 
> Most state game laws are set up to protect resident hunters. How many threads have we seen where guys were booted out of land they used to hunt because out of staters leased the place? And the deer are still out there. I see pics of monster bucks every day! If you're not seeing them, maybe you need to work a little harder!
> 
> ...


Yes...exactly like talking to a wall!
You speak as if locals don't lease land as well knocking hunters out of there hunting spots. One of the most lucrative, booming things going on right now is local guys leasing farms for guided deer hunts. Haven't checked this year but last year and years prior there has never been any kind of special 'guide' licensing, guidelines or restriction on deer guiding in this state. Not a bad business to get into when you can lease a chunk of property from a farmer for gun and black powder season for a couple grand then charge $2500-3000 a week per client.
Lease a 30acre wooded tract for $3000...one client per 5 acres at $2500ea. for gun week, that's $15,000. Minus your $3000 lease to the farmer...not hard to see where this is going. And it's happening at an alarming rate. Then we can do it again for BP season. Google Ohio deer hunting guide/outfitter services and you'll see. FWIW, there are several people right in my area doing just this. Know of a few in Jackson doing the same. And only one out of the group I know advertise using media. The rest are doing it word of mouth. They lease every piece of ground someone is willing to lease to them. I can introduce you to a guy that hunted his neighbors property for about 15 yrs. I can then take you and introduce you to the local clan that leased that property ousting my buddy out of his hunting grounds. We all live within about 30 miles from one another. It's becoming such a big business I'm sure ODNR is working on some regulations right now. Again, they may have already done something as of this year...don't know, haven't checked.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, there is gonna come a time in the very near future that Ohio will be just like Texas. If you don't own land or lease it, you won't be hunting much. And it won't be all out of staters fault either.


And those reduced bag limits are very late....and IMO not enough. What is it now, 6 deer total if we hunt all areas. And with the coyote numbers as they are today, I hope they can recoup.

You and I will see the total take for this year when season is done. Deer herd suffering in my area and others today....most likely yours tomorrow.


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## miked913 (Feb 29, 2008)

When I was a kid and started hunting in the 80's the states entire deer herd was a a little less than 1/2 of what we are killing each year today. Did you think the herd was going to just continue to grow out of hand forever? It's called deer management. I saw and killed deer with a tiny deer herd when I was kid on public property and I still do today. I am from Ohio and now I lease a property in Ohio and have for the past 12 years. So what that means is lots of stuff has changed over the last 30 some years and it's going to change more. Get used to it, try harder and quit crying.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

miked913 said:


> When I was a kid and started hunting in the 80's the states entire deer herd was a a little less than 1/2 of what we are killing each year today. Did you think the herd was going to just continue to grow out of hand forever? It's called deer management. I saw and killed deer with a tiny deer herd when I was kid on public property and I still do today. I am from Ohio and now I lease a property in Ohio and have for the past 12 years. So what that means is lots of stuff has changed over the last 30 some years and it's going to change more. Get used to it, try harder and quit crying.


If this is directed towards me...you clearly have me pegged wrong.

If not...my apologies in advance and please disregard this post.

I own property and have access to plenty of private owned hunting land in various counties. Im retired so the lack of hunting time for me is not an issue at all.
I'll kill a deer every year just like I always do regardless of how much property is leased or who it's leased by. And with the days I'm fortunate enough to hunt, if the deer herd drops in half of what it is now tomorrow, most likely I'll still score for the years I have left to hunt.


And by the way, I started hunting long before you did, likely before you were born. And FWIW, some of my best hunting was in the 80's. I was mostly horn hunting then and took some of my best bucks during that time. Especially mid to late 80's.
Late 60's, early 70's was when it was rough.

Did the herd need reduced? Never have in any thread Ive ever posted in said it didn't. But the absolute insane bag limits ODNR set for far too many years has drastically taken its toll. What is it still today...6 total?
Oh...and you mentioned 'changes'..let's not forget the yote issues going on today we never had before either. They will continue taking hundreds if not thousand of deer every year as well. A problem that didn't exist years ago when the deer herd was exploding. They're here now in huge numbers and growing every year. I hope this long term issue/change is something you can get used to cause its not going to get any better in the future.

Bottom line...at the risk of sounding selfish...I'll get mine for the rest of the years Im able to get out and hunt. Not crying a bit. And don't need to hunt harder...I hunt smart.
My comments/concerns aren't for my own self gain. They are for younger guys such as yourself, your kids, my kids and G-kids. So that you and they can continue to enjoy deer hunting as long as I have. I sincerely hope that happens.

In closing, I've shot one deer this year. Debating on whether to take another. With the remainder of bow, two extra days shotgun and 4days BP coming up in Jan.(other than bow, my fav. time to deer hunt), again, since time, or private hunting property isnt a problem, I can't see any complications in taking another if I choose to do so. May have to make a road trip to Jackson, Hocking Co. or McConnelsville and take one of their deer during BP. A little 4day getaway sounds good about now stomping around some old trusty grounds. May be more lucrative than my home property about now.

Good hunting to ya!


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Don't be taking any hocking county deer fastwater. There's only a couple left.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

miked913 said:


> When I was a kid and started hunting in the 80's the states entire deer herd was a a little less than 1/2 of what we are killing each year today. Did you think the herd was going to just continue to grow out of hand forever? It's called deer management. I saw and killed deer with a tiny deer herd when I was kid on public property and I still do today. I am from Ohio and now I lease a property in Ohio and have for the past 12 years. So what that means is lots of stuff has changed over the last 30 some years and it's going to change more. Get used to it, try harder and quit crying.


Exactly, things have changed and will continue to change, I'm certainly glad we're not Hunting with the same rules that existed in 1970. There are rule changes almost every season. How long did early M/L last? The youth season is fairly new, and yes bag limits changed recently. If anyone thinks that there won't be more changes ,we disagree. 
I for one didn't hear anyone crying but I wish people would stop posting their opinions on a open public forum 
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

bobk said:


> Don't be taking any hocking county deer fastwater. There's only a couple left.


Have to get your address and maybe lease some property next to you. 

May have to go down to Keith and Kenny Farmers place and get one. Or maybe over to John Downs or his nephews place. 

Actually an old buddy and his wife(old neighbors) from Hocking (Old McArther Rd/HarshRd area) stopped over Sat. and wants to get together for a hunt. Haven't hunted with him since we moved here some 15 yrs ago. He's the one I've mentioned in posts here on OGF before
that has sent many several trailcam pics of the increased amount of yotes and even a couple shots of a bobcat the last couple years.

He and I have talked at length over the years about the decreased numbers in the deer herd in different areas. At his place, deer are there but his has noticed a reduction also. Most likely not from over hunting because there's very little pressure at his place or surrounding properties. He's figuring with the amount of yotes that they have taken their toll on both deer and turkey.

Too, his FIL has a farm just shy of 200acres down in McCarther that I speak of here from time to time. That farm is where a group from S.C. leased from FIL for about 20-25 yrs. during deer gun/BP seasons. I've met and hunted with them as well. A great group of guys. These guys left about 3-4yrs ago leasing property in Iowa. It wasn't about the $. Neither FIL, nor anyone in that group were hurting and FIL hadn't raised their fee since they got the lease. Think he only charged them like $500 for his whole farm. Which included a spot in one of the barns that had electric for them to pull their RV in out of the weather and plug in. They just got to the point that they felt their time would be better invested someplace else that offered better success.
Don actually hated to see them leave. For a long time, every time the guys would shoot a deer, they would want FIL to take some. He didnt eat deer. Then they found out he loved fish. So for years, they brought him up enough fish to last him/wife till they showed up the next year.

That farm there was my 'go to' farm for turkey. Took a turkey off of that farm every Spring for about 20 yrs or so. Many times have counted anywhere from 40-60 birds picking in the corn fields. My buddy and FIL says that there's still turkey there but you just don't see those numbers anymore. Most likely, once again yotes, ***** and possums taking their toll.
Nobody's trapping anymore.


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## miked913 (Feb 29, 2008)

I love how everyone always blames coyotes?? Doesn't anyone read any of the coyote studies there have been tons some lasting a decade or so? They have VERY little impact on deer population! Yes I said it! Next time you have an opinion. Which it is only your opinion based on zero facts do a little poking around and educate yourself. You'll be shocked how much you don't actually know about them. Unless snow is up past your a$$ and it's been sub zero for a long time they aren't eating your deer in any numbers that you're going to see a Difference!!


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## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

Back to the original post, I believe ODNR needs to implement higher fees on out-of-state hunters just like their states do to us. $140+ to hunt in WV for non-residents. Paid that and more for 10 years till last year. Go to IL or out west. The fees are even higher. Should be quid pro quo. 

As for strengthening the herd, I'm at a loss to recommend anything. Numbers are down in some areas, up in others. Deer populations have exploded in residential areas and as such so have coyotes. Been getting worse around here for the last couple of years. Got them hanging around our neighborhood where we can't shoot them. Have to watch our small dogs whenever they are out in our fenced pool area. All the rabbits are now gone, too. Yote crap everywhere. 

The ODNR will continue to do what they feel is right until we stop bickering, come together and offer solid recommendations. But what works here may not work in SE OH or NW OH. Everything is a compromise.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

miked913 said:


> I love how everyone always blames coyotes?? Doesn't anyone read any of the coyote studies there have been tons some lasting a decade or so? They have VERY little impact on deer population! Yes I said it! Next time you have an opinion. Which it is only your opinion based on zero facts do a little poking around and educate yourself. You'll be shocked how much you don't actually know about them. Unless snow is up past your a$$ and it's been sub zero for a long time they aren't eating your deer in any numbers that you're going to see a Difference!!


Okay...thanks for that.
But before you give your opinion claiming proof of that opinion and accusing others of stating baseless opinions you may want to practice what your preaching.
Maybe your dated studies need to be updated.

For your educated eyes only:
http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/compass/...-predation-on-deer-hunting-in-south-carolina/
http://www.petersenshunting.com/predators/are-coyotes-killing-your-deer/
https://gameandgarden.com/sustainability/land/do-coyotes-affect-deer-populations/
http://news.psu.edu/story/315340/20...dicates-coyote-predation-deer-east-manageable

If you need anymore, just take the time to search...there's plenty.


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## miked913 (Feb 29, 2008)

fastwater said:


> Okay...thanks for that.
> But before you give your opinion claiming proof of that opinion and accusing others of stating baseless opinions you may want to practice what your preaching.
> Maybe your dated studies need to be updated.
> 
> ...


And none of those are from your area or Ohio and most are from a completely different subspecies of coyote. I work at one of the metro parks and have helped with several studies. Do you know how many healthy adult deer we have lost?? Zero! And our fans the highest amount Ever was still less than 5%. And after 24 hours NEVER lost a fawn!!


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

MuskyFan said:


> Back to the original post, I believe ODNR needs to implement higher fees on out-of-state hunters just like their states do to us. $140+ to hunt in WV for non-residents. Paid that and more for 10 years till last year. Go to IL or out west. The fees are even higher. Should be quid pro quo.
> 
> As for strengthening the herd, I'm at a loss to recommend anything. Numbers are down in some areas, up in others. Deer populations have exploded in residential areas and as such so have coyotes. Been getting worse around here for the last couple of years. Got them hanging around our neighborhood where we can't shoot them. Have to watch our small dogs whenever they are out in our fenced pool area. All the rabbits are now gone, too. Yote crap everywhere.
> 
> The ODNR will continue to do what they feel is right until we stop bickering, come together and offer solid recommendations. But what works here may not work in SE OH or NW OH. Everything is a compromise.


Your neighborhood scenario of increasing yote population is exactly what some of us have been screaming to ODNR for the last several years. I have many friends that live in the suburbs of Cols. that are claiming the same thing.

As deer population in rural areas decrease due to that's where the deer are being killed by two predators...man and yotes, the deer population in non hunting areas(suburbs, parks etc) continues to increase due to the fact the yotes are the only predators in those areas. And the more the deer herd decreases in the rural areas, the more the yote population will increase in non hunting areas.
Regardless of whether we like it or not, they will follow the food chain. They are no different then any other animal. They will thrive the best and migrate most towards the area offering them the best,most and easiest prey available.


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## miked913 (Feb 29, 2008)

fastwater said:


> Your neighborhood scenario of increasing yote population is exactly what some of us have been screaming to ODNR for the last several years. I have many friends that live in the suburbs of Cols. that are claiming the same thing.
> 
> As deer population in rural areas decrease due to that's where the deer are being killed by two predators...man and yotes, the deer population in non hunting areas(suburbs, parks etc) continues to increase due to the fact the yotes are the only predators in those areas. And the more the deer herd decreases in the rural areas, the more the yote population will increase in non hunting areas.
> Regardless of whether we like it or not, they will follow the food chain. They are no different then any other animal. They will thrive the best and migrate most towards the area offering them the best,most and easiest prey available.


You prove my point to a tee, yes the metropolitan areas have a lot of deer and a lot of coyotes, my point is the only deer those coyotes are eating are the ones that got hit by cars or other injury's that the deer would have died of any ways. You know why so many people have them in their yards? Because of bird feeders and cat food etc. I get these calls all the time! I am a professional nuisance trapper. You are the reason everyone is so misinformed on the habits of coyotes. You think you know because your neighbor said...or whatever but can't prove crap about what you know. Go ahead and actually read those articles that you posted if you're able to and the bottom line of each one is that no matter what you do with the coyote population the deer herd stays the same!!


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

But but but my cousin's sister in law's uncle saw a guy on Facebook that has a trail camera showing a single coyote dragging seven thousand fawns to its den in one spring....


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## Carpn (Apr 5, 2004)

beaver said:


> But but but my cousin's sister in law's uncle saw a guy on Facebook that has a trail camera showing a single coyote dragging seven thousand fawns to its den in one spring....


Damn , ya beat me to it . Did ya hear about the catfish the size of a diver below ( insert local lake here ) dam ?


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

Carpn said:


> Damn , ya beat me to it . Did ya hear about the catfish the size of a diver below ( insert local lake here ) dam ?


Yea man I was talking to someone about it while watching the dnr drop rattle snakes out of helicopters.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

miked913 said:


> And none of those are from your area or Ohio and most are from a completely different subspecies of coyote. I work at one of the metro parks and have helped with several studies. Do you know how many healthy adult deer we have lost?? Zero! And our fans the highest amount Ever was still less than 5%. And after 24 hours NEVER lost a fawn!!


Pardon me!

I didn't know that when you stated "they(coyotes) have VERY little impact on deer population!", that you were referring to just ' my area'?
And your next claim is that the 'subspecies' of coyote that these studies were done on are totally different than yotes in my area or in Ohio??? Is that supposed to mean that the out of state yotes these studies were done on have a more predator instinct then the ones here in Ohio?

Your opinions on this subject is just what you accused me of doing. Stating opinions without fact. I give you fact and your bullheadedness still refuses to accept those facts. And yet unlike me, you have given absolutely no documented proof of your opinions. You saying you are a professional nuisance trapper apparently means squat on this subject. You really should do some studying on yotes. Maybe a crash course on the makeup of the different subspecies of yotes, their traits, habits and temperaments. It's evident you don't know and it may help you with your nuisance trapping.

Here's the last bit of homework I'm gonna do for you to try and help educate you on the subspecies of the Ohio yote. You probably won't read this one either but at least I can say I tried. There are more out there also. Just takes a little effort. Note what the head biologists from the University of Cleveland states about the predation of fawns in the Spring. Maybe he is talking about the subspecies just in my area...but I doubt it.

http://www.cleveland.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2015/02/coyotes_are_still_ohios_top_pr.html

If you would have bothered to read the studies I gave you, you would have noticed that one of those studies was done at PSU. If case you don't know, that's in Pennsylvania. Do they have their own subspecies of yotes as well? Or maybe the yotes in Eastern PA are a different subspecies than those of Western, Southern and Northern Pa. Maybe certain areas in PA have different subspecies than in other parts of PA.
By your comments that differs greatly from the documented research done at PSU as well as so many others facilities, forgive if I take their word over yours.

You and I bickering on the subject won't change a thing but one thing for sure, time will surely tell who's right won't it?
FWIW, for the sake of our deer herd, I hope my opinion and all the research from these institutes are wrong and you are right.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

I've seen coyotes hunt a deer down with my own eyes. This was an adult buck, not a fawn. They worked as a pack and took turns running the deer. One coyote runs it while the rest sit and wait. Then they switch up. This went on and on until the deer was totally exhausted and they rolled it. Then I intervened. I've seen coyotes chasing deer more than once, but only one time was I able to see the whole show. And that was because I was on high ground looking over a 1700 acre River bottom. Between the times that I've seen coyotes chasing deer and all of the studies that I've read on fawn predation, I would say coyotes definately reduce the deer herd. A few coyotes would not be a major concern, but we now have coyote densities that the state has never seen before. They are not a native species so I personally have no use for them. Ever since they went after my black lab In my yard I started killing them on sight. My vet was not so lucky, the coyotes ate his jack russel alive.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

I doubt it was alive very long...


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

garhtr said:


> buckeyebowman said:
> 
> 
> > Yes...exactly like talking to a wall!
> ...


Amazing! You sound like the "climate change" con artists! First it was "out of state" hunters leasing the land, just like the next coming "ice age". When they couldn't get people excited about that, the argument changed! When the desired effect still wasn't reached, the argument changed again!

And thank you, miked913 for a sane post! The coyote has become the "whipping boy" of the modern day unsuccessful deer hunter! Yotes are solitary hunters, preying on small game like mice, rats, chipmunks, squirrels, rabbits, etc. Not much to share with a pack. I'm sure they might pick off a fawn or two, but I'd remind people that when the whitetail deer was evolving in this neck of the woods, there were wolves present! True pack hunters. And bears too! Yet, the whitetail survived.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Very good read that might clear up some questionable issues about coyotes. It was researched/written by OSU biologist Dr. Stanley Gehrt:
Please scroll down to 'what do urban coyotes eat'. Find the chart there in which 1429 samples of scat was analyzed. Then note the chart with the contents. Notice there were 12 items mostly found.
Not going to list all 12 items but the top 5 items found at the highest percentage from the 1429 scat samples were as follows:
1. small rodents @ 42%
2. Fruit @ 23%
3. Deer @ 22%
4. Rabbit @ 18%
5. Birds @ 13%

Next scroll down to 'What Good are Coyote'

Note that it says predation of fawns in the Spring can be anywhere from 20-80% in a given area.

The very reason I stated in post #9 that with today's yote population at what it is, plus the 6 deer bag limit for hunters( if Hunter hunts all areas), has the bag limit been reduced enough? Again, Don't think it has.



http://urbancoyoteresearch.com/sites/default/files/UrbanCoyoteManagementPDF.pdf



buckeyebowman said:


> Amazing! You sound like the "climate change" con artists! First it was "out of state" hunters leasing the land, just like the next coming "ice age". When they couldn't get people excited about that, the argument changed! When the desired effect still wasn't reached, the argument changed again!
> 
> And thank you, miked913 for a sane post! The coyote has become the "whipping boy" of the modern day unsuccessful deer hunter! Yotes are solitary hunters, preying on small game like mice, rats, chipmunks, squirrels, rabbits, etc. Not much to share with a pack. I'm sure they might pick off a fawn or two, but I'd remind people that when the whitetail deer was evolving in this neck of the woods, there were wolves present! True pack hunters. And bears too! Yet, the whitetail survived.


"Climate change" con artist.  That's good...but...

Buckeyebowman, you might want to back up and re-read this thread. Especially down to and including your post #6. Nobody even mentioned out of state people coming here and leasing property till you did in your post #6. Prior to you bringing the ' out of state people coming here leasing' into the conversation, the conversation was about out of state license changes.

My response to your post #6 was that by your comments in your post, you act like out of state hunters are the main people coming here leasing up the land and knocking locals out of their hunting properties.
I was merely saying that every local Tom,Dick and Harry is starting a guide/outfitter service most likely leasing up as much(and I'd surely bet more) land than out of staters.
And to the poor Hunter that's been hunting that land for years, does it really matter to him if an out of state or local person/people leased it and knocked him out of it. He's still knocked out of it regardless.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

fastwater said:


> Very good read that might clear up some questionable issues about coyotes. It was researched/written by OSU biologist Dr. Stanley Gehrt:
> Please scroll down to 'what do urban coyotes eat'. Find the chart there in which 1429 samples of scat was analyzed. Then note the chart with the contents. Notice there were 12 items mostly found.
> Not going to list all 12 items but the top 5 items found at the highest percentage from the 1429 scat samples were as follows:
> 1. small rodents @ 42%
> ...


Good point here. Around 15 years ago I used to have more land in Logan county than I could ever want to hunt. Actually so much that I couldn't hunt it all even if I didn't have a job and nothing else to do. Last I checked there were 8 outfitters in that county alone. Now I couldn't hunt that county unless I booked a hunt with one of these outfitters because all of the areas that I used to hunt have been leased out by one of them. It wasn't one farm but multiple farms that got leased out. Somewhere in the tune of almost 1800 acres. The one outfitter charges 4500 for a five day hunt. When Stan Potts killed a 200 incher out of that county the land got leased out with a quickness. At least I can say that I hunted the same farms that the celebrity's hunt. I at least got to hunt it for free.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

buckeyebowman said:


> Amazing!
> *The coyote has become the "whipping boy" of the modern day unsuccessful deer hunter!* Yotes are solitary hunters, preying on small game like mice, rats, chipmunks, squirrels, rabbits, etc. Not much to share with a pack. I'm sure they might pick off a fawn or two, but I'd remind people that when the whitetail deer was evolving in this neck of the woods, there were wolves present! True pack hunters. And bears too! Yet, the whitetail survived.


I'm not real sure where you got your info on the coyote being solitary hunters but I've seen them in groups of 2 or 3 lots of times. It seems to me from what I've seen while hunting that as the yote populations increase the likely hood of them perusing adult deer increases. In years that we see lots of yotes we also an increase of them chasing deer. If anyone thinks they don't have any impact on the deer herd they need to open their mind a little.
I have no studies to back this up, it's just what I've personally seen.
*I also agree that the coyote has become the whipping boy for unsuccessful deer hunters.*

I see the 6 deer limit being brought up and wonder how many people actually take 6 deer or take more than the 3 deer allowed in some counties for that matter. You'd have to be only lucky guy to have access to that much deer rich land in multiple counties.
I would think the key to local populations would more directly lie on doe harvest or predation than anything.
I also think every hunter should kill every coyote they have a chance to.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

beaver said:


> I doubt it was alive very long...


The Jack Russell lived for several hours. My friend wrapped him up and took him to the clinic. He cleaned the wounds and tried to work on him. There was too much meat loss in the hind quarters. He wanted to save the dog for his kids. He had a little boy and girl that loved the dog. After determining that the wounds were not repairable he euthanized the dog.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

buckeyebowman said:


> Amazing! You sound like the "climate change" con artists! First it was "out of state" hunters leasing the land, just like the next coming "ice age". When they couldn't get people excited about that, the argument changed! When the desired effect still wasn't reached, the argument changed again!
> 
> And thank you, miked913 for a sane post! The coyote has become the "whipping boy" of the modern day unsuccessful deer hunter! Yotes are solitary hunters, preying on small game like mice, rats, chipmunks, squirrels, rabbits, etc. Not much to share with a pack. I'm sure they might pick off a fawn or two, but I'd remind people that when the whitetail deer was evolving in this neck of the woods, there were wolves present! True pack hunters. And bears too! Yet, the whitetail survived.


As stated before, coyotes are not always solitary hunters.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Fastwater. If you get over to old mcarthur road to hunt send a pm to me. I'm the next road down from there on 93.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

bobk said:


> Fastwater. If you get over to old mcarthur road to hunt send a pm to me. I'm the next road down from there on 93.


Will do.
I used to live on Harsh Rd. that runs between Old McArthur and 93. Has access to hunt a lot of property at one time around there. Practically everything on Old McArthur on both sides from 93 clear back into town and from Old McArthur over to 93 practically clear back into town. 
Took a bunch of game off those hills and saw one of the biggest yotes Ive ever seen drinking out of Farmers pond one morning I was hunting. Incidentally, don't know if you saw the post I wrote about the biggest buck I've ever seen that I used to watch that bedded everyday in a little thicket in the middle of a huge alfalfa field but that field was Farmers field. If going South of Old McArthur, just as you pass Keiths house, that field on the right side is the field he would be in. He would be about halfway between Farmers house and the next house south. As you know, you can't see that field from the road due to the hill. But he would bed on the backside of that hill.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Most likely what your seeing is a momma yote with pups before they part ways.


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## DontDoubtTheJones (Oct 25, 2016)

How did a thread on Out of state rules get hijacked to a coyote mess LOL


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Because NR hunters, coyotes and leasing all ruined the deer herd...lol. By my count thats at most 20% of the total deer kill combined. But we will continue to point fingers.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

ostbucks98 said:


> Because NR hunters, coyotes and leasing all ruined the deer herd...lol. By my count thats at most 20% of the total deer kill combined. But we will continue to point fingers.


Don't forget the telecheat as many call it.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

fastwater said:


> Will do.
> I used to live on Harsh Rd. that runs between Old McArthur and 93. Has access to hunt a lot of property at one time around there. Practically everything on Old McArthur on both sides from 93 clear back into town and from Old McArthur over to 93 practically clear back into town.
> Took a bunch of game off those hills and saw one of the biggest yotes Ive ever seen drinking out of Farmers pond one morning I was hunting. Incidentally, don't know if you saw the post I wrote about the biggest buck I've ever seen that I used to watch that bedded everyday in a little thicket in the middle of a huge alfalfa field but that field was Farmers field. If going South of Old McArthur, just as you pass Keiths house, that field on the right side is the field he would be in. He would be about halfway between Farmers house and the next house south. As you know, you can't see that field from the road due to the hill. But he would bed on the backside of that hill.


Still see a lot of deer on that road. It's a really good area.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

ostbucks98 said:


> Most likely what your seeing is a momma yote with pups before they part ways.


Or maybe, you are seeing a mated pair hunting together which they will do if hunting larger prey such as deer. 

I've posted this story here before on OGF. Several years ago, I pulled in the drive from work at about 3:30 or 4:00 pm. It was mid summer and very hot that day. When I stepped out of the truck, I heard the most awful loud, noise coming out of the ravine just behind the house. I grabbed my pistol and ran in that direction. As I crested the hill looking down to the bottom, there were three yotes that had a doe down. She was still trying to fight them off and screaming like crazy. I ran down the hill thinking they would run off long before I could get close enough to get a shot off. Apparently, being too close to feasting on some venison, they didn't run. Instead, they kept lunging at her tag teaming her biting from different angles. I was able to get close enough to kill two of them. The third finally took off. 
You could tell this poor doe had run till she just couldn't go anymore. She was all lathered up and exhausted. 
Backing off and watching her, She layed there for a very long time till she was able to get up and walk off. Looked like she did have a few lacerations on her legs but didn't look like anything life threatening. 

There has also been a few times I've been bow hunting using a deer call in early part of season. Making doe bleat sounds, have had coyote come to the call. Some hunters have, but unfortunately I've not had one get close enough in this scenario to kill it with the bow.
Have also had them come in when calling while Turkey hunting. 

I've talked to a couple retired GW's I know and they don't feel yotes do much actual damage as far as killing adult turkeys as they seldom can catch them. But they both feel they kill poults and raid nest eating the eggs.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)




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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

bobk said:


> Don't forget the telecheat as many call it.


We refer to it as Telepoach. Yes the people who never took thier deer to check stations probably still do not call thier deer in now. With the phone in system there is no accountability with antlered deer. Before if you had your girlfriend, wife, grandmother, or kids check in a buck to get it tagged you had to physically take it to a check station to get it tagged. Someone would see the deer. Now they just have one of these people check one in. If everyone shuts thier mouth about it the dishonest hunter can kill another buck with a valid tag. Fortunately most are too stupid to do this. Look at how many get caught because they post thier deer on Facebook alone. My biggest issue with the system is the tag itself. Before you had to fill out the tag that you purchased. If you were going to use a either sex tag on a buck you still could get it out of the woods with the state tag. If you chose not to check it in you would have to purchase another either sex tag to keep antler hunting if you were dishonest. Now you just hand write a tag. If you process your own deer a dishonest hunter who keeps thier mouth shut can kill many deer with just one tag. More of this goes on than you think it does.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

ostbucks98 said:


> Because NR hunters, coyotes and leasing all ruined the deer herd...lol. By my count thats at most 20% of the total deer kill combined. But we will continue to point fingers.


Many of these places that get leased up by nonresidents only get hunting pressure a few weeks out of the season. The deer from neighboring properties end up yarding up in late season due to less pressure. This in many areas makes it harder for other hunters to fill tags.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Geez , there must be a whole bunch of cheaters and poachers out there. I really like the telecheck system. Much more convenient than having to drag a deer into the check station. I guess I am giving too much credit to the average hunter.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

"And none of those are from your area or Ohio and most are from a completely different subspecies of coyote. I work at one of the metro parks and have helped with several studies. Do you know how many healthy adult deer we have lost?? Zero! And our fans the highest amount Ever was still less than 5%. And after 24 hours NEVER lost a fawn!!"

Miked913, I would like to know more details about your "studies" if you don't mind. What county were these performed in? What metro park? Were the deer tranquilized and radio collared? Would love to see some statistics or look them up online. Do you have access to any written summary of the studies? I guess I've never heard of a metro park conducting a coyote predation study in Ohio.

I am a very experienced and successful hunter with over 40 years of experience pursuing deer in Ohio and in my view over the last 10 years Ohio has seen a large increase in Eastern Coyote predation of fawn deer.
I live in southeast Ohio right in the middle of several hundred acres of woods and I have witnessed the predation first hand.

Before you never heard coyotes, but almost nightly at dusk you can hear many coyotes howling from several different locations around here. I have personally found the remains of several fawn deer after being ravaged by coyotes.
I also feed deer year round. Its not uncommon to have the same 15 or 16 adult does at my feeding area every evening. I view this feeding area daily right outside the window of my home.
In the spring and summer months I see their fawns disappear one by one. This early fall I had 14 adult does with only two surviving fawns.
Something is killing them and I'm damn sure it's not squirrels.

Coyotes eat a hell of a lot more than mice. Some of you need to talk to a few of the sheep farmers in Ohio. If they are killing adult sheep with regularity it's not a leap to think they would prey on newborn fawns.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...oyote-population-canis-latrans-coyote-attacks
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/07/31/wily-coyotes-plague-ohio-sheep-farmers.html
http://ocj.com/2014/12/predator-problems-plaguing-livestock-in-ohio/


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Lewis said:


> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...oyote-population-canis-latrans-coyote-attacks
> http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/07/31/wily-coyotes-plague-ohio-sheep-farmers.html
> http://ocj.com/2014/12/predator-problems-plaguing-livestock-in-ohio/


You may as well save it Lewis. 

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how much documented proof from respectable institutions you give some people, their mind is so closed to actual proven facts for whatever reason that they will refuse to believe anything but their own personal beliefs of which they can't provide any documented proof of. 

Sad really....cause these kind of people are the very ones that will wake up one day and be the most surprised and mad cause there's very little opportunities for them to hunt or have the enjoyment of teaching their children or G-children. 
Those of us seeing what's currently going on are frustrated right now BEFORE it's like it was back in the late 60's early 70's. But we surely won't be surprised when it happens cause we haven't had our heads stuck in the sand and we've watched it happen over the years.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

ostbucks98 said:


>


Good momma!


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

But most just keep whacking doe's


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

On my 125 acres only 1 doe has been shot this year.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

For every study saying coyotes kill a mass amount of deer there is one that says otherwise.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

bobk said:


> On my 125 acres only 1 doe has been shot this year.


And one shot on mine also.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

This is one of the most detailed studies ever done by the ODNR on coyotes in Ohio. It is very, very interesting and detailed.
Scat samples show whether it is spring, fall , summer or winter, Whitetail Deer comprise 40-60% of a coyote's diet.
Please read...
http://www.wild4ever.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Coyote_Project_Update_for_ODOW_2013.pdf
One interesting footnote, 3 of the yotes had wolf DNA. I guess it's possible the absence or presence of this DNA might have some effect on the yotes food preferences.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Lewis said:


> This is one of the most detailed studies ever done by the ODNR on coyotes in Ohio. It is very, very interesting and detailed.
> Scat samples show whether it is spring, fall , summer or winter, Whitetail Deer comprise 40-60% of a coyote's diet.
> Please read...
> http://www.wild4ever.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Coyote_Project_Update_for_ODOW_2013.pdf
> One interesting footnote, 3 of the yotes had wolf DNA. I guess it's possible the absence or presence of this DNA might have some effect on the yotes food preferences.


An excellent read for sure. 

And since its extended documented research done in 2013 by an Ohio 'metro park biologist' maybe it will be taken a bit more to heart by a few. Especially those stating their baseless opinions on the fact they say they work for a metro park and was involved in their own little study or have formed their opinions cause they are a nuisance Hunter.

I've driven boats and worked on a few 'piper' airplanes too, but that doesn't qualify me to question the proven actions of the Captain of the Queen Mary... or argue proven turbulence data affects of a commercial airliner.


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## miked913 (Feb 29, 2008)

oK, took me a minute I actually do work, I don't sit at home behind my computer with a tinfoil hat like a lot retired people on here do. 1st thing every single sentence you have chosen to try and prove your point was only1/2 of the sentence so you could make it say what you want, please go ahead and finish the 20-80% of fawns sentence. I DARE YOU! 2nd our current study is fawn mortality and is currently on going in its 3 rd year. Mature does are implanted with a GPS device in mid winter while she is pregnant, when the fawn is born, unit is activated we then know when and exactly where the fawn is, a device is attached to the fawn and monitored, thus far less than 5% of fawns have been killed by coyotes, and all of those the 1st day, none after 24hrs.. Im sure some people here have probably heard me speak at some of their town hall meetings I have had several municipalities search me out to do so about coyote issues in their towns, I am really sorry that you are trying to twist things your way, I am considered someone who knows a thing or 2 about them. My favorite part that you're going to love is ask your buddies About red fox And how people are seeing more.....that means the coyote population is actually dropping!! Have a nice day!


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

miked913 said:


> oK, took me a minute I actually do work, I don't sit at home behind my computer with a tinfoil hat like a lot retired people on here do. 1st thing every single sentence you have chosen to try and prove your point was only1/2 of the sentence so you could make it say what you want, please go ahead and finish the 20-80% of fawns sentence. I DARE YOU! 2nd our current study is fawn mortality and is currently on going in its 3 rd year. Mature does are implanted with a GPS device in mid winter while she is pregnant, when the fawn is born, unit is activated we then know when and exactly where the fawn is, a device is attached to the fawn and monitored, thus far less than 5% of fawns have been killed by coyotes, and all of those the 1st day, none after 24hrs.. Im sure some people here have probably heard me speak at some of their town hall meetings I have had several municipalities search me out to do so about coyote issues in their towns, I am really sorry that you are trying to twist things your way, I am considered someone who knows a thing or 2 about them. My favorite part that you're going to love is ask your buddies About red fox And how people are seeing more.....that means the coyote population is actually dropping!! Have a nice day!


By your 1/2 sentences comment, I'm assuming you actually mean ' portions of a paragraph to prove my point'.
If that the case and the sentence following the sentence I quoted to make my point is what you're referring to, Below please read the entire paragraph. I've taken the liberty to highlight it so it's easy for you to see.

" Deer are often overabundant and difficult to manage in urban areas. Although coyotes rarely take adult deer, they are primary predators of deer fawns. Colleagues from the Illinois Natural History Survey conducted a fawn survival study in
different locations within the Chicago area and found that coyotes killed 20 percent to 80 percent of the fawns in different populations. *Coyotes cannot reduce deer populations because they do not often take adult deer (in the Midwest), but they may slow population growth in high-density areas through their predation on fawns."

And now I have to ask...what's your point???
*


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

miked913 said:


> oK, took me a minute I actually do work, I don't sit at home behind my computer with a tinfoil hat like a lot retired people on here do. 1st thing every single sentence you have chosen to try and prove your point was only1/2 of the sentence so you could make it say what you want, please go ahead and finish the 20-80% of fawns sentence. I DARE YOU! 2nd our current study is fawn mortality and is currently on going in its 3 rd year. Mature does are implanted with a GPS device in mid winter while she is pregnant, when the fawn is born, unit is activated we then know when and exactly where the fawn is, a device is attached to the fawn and monitored, thus far less than 5% of fawns have been killed by coyotes, and all of those the 1st day, none after 24hrs.. Im sure some people here have probably heard me speak at some of their town hall meetings I have had several municipalities search me out to do so about coyote issues in their towns, I am really sorry that you are trying to twist things your way, I am considered someone who knows a thing or 2 about them. My favorite part that you're going to love is ask your buddies About red fox And how people are seeing more.....that means the coyote population is actually dropping!! Have a nice day!


Your numbers might be skewed due to your sampling methods. You are intervening at the most common point of the predator/prey interaction. By making human contact with your samples at birth you will inherently decrease the percentage of fawns that come into contact with coyotes at the time of the highest predation rates.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

Lewis said:


> This is one of the most detailed studies ever done by the ODNR on coyotes in Ohio. It is very, very interesting and detailed.
> Scat samples show whether it is spring, fall , summer or winter, Whitetail Deer comprise 40-60% of a coyote's diet.
> Please read...
> http://www.wild4ever.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Coyote_Project_Update_for_ODOW_2013.pdf
> One interesting footnote, 3 of the yotes had wolf DNA. I guess it's possible the absence or presence of this DNA might have some effect on the yotes food preferences.


Good read, thanks. That is in line with most of the research that I have read.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Flathead76 said:


> We refer to it as Telepoach.... *Before if you had your girlfriend, wife, grandmother, or kids check in a buck to get it tagged you had to physically take it to a check station to get it tagged. Someone would see the deer.*


It was far from perfect before.
Went in to more than one check station and was asked it I wanted to just check my buck in as a doe or if I had an urban tag they said I just use that. He didn't care that I wasn't hunting in an urban area, he could care less that it was a buck. I butchered my own deer at the time so who would know.
One check in station I used to go to the guy handed you the paper to fill out then when you were done he would hand you the tag to put on the deer. He never did go out and look at the deer.
I know guys who refused to drive to take deer to a check in station because they were never open when they needed them.
Driving around for an hour or 2 hoping to find an open check in station after getting a deer out of the wood won't change the make-up of the individuals who are out hunting.
Dishonest people are always going to cheat the system.

Just sayin


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

fastwater said:


> By your 1/2 sentences comment, I'm assuming you actually mean ' portions of a paragraph to prove my point'.
> If that the case and the sentence following the sentence I quoted to make my point is what you're referring to, Below please read the entire paragraph. I've taken the liberty to highlight it so it's easy for you to see.
> 
> " Deer are often overabundant and difficult to manage in urban areas. Although coyotes rarely take adult deer, they are primary predators of deer fawns. Colleagues from the Illinois Natural History Survey conducted a fawn survival study in
> ...


I guess the point would be that coyotes are NOT the primary reason for the reduction of the deer herd in Ohio! There's an interesting statement early on in the quote which most people would just skip right by. It says, "Although coyotes rarely take adult deer, they are primary predators of deer fawns." This sounds very sinister! But stop and think about it a minute! What other predators are there for deer fawns? Chipmunks? Mice? Voles? Groundhogs? Skunks? What?

Anybody who finds the above info surprising is far too easily surprised! 

And note that they do not reduce the population but only might slow the growth a bit. And only in high density areas. 

To get back to the original point, I'm all for making out of staters pay more to hunt here!


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

Thank you Bowman. Studies and statistics can be worded to sway an argument either way. As soon as I read that, I thought the same thing. What other predators do they have? Stray dogs, and now maybe some bobcats in certain areas I guess. That's kind of like saying I'm the primary predator of beer in this house when the only adults in this house are my girlfriend and I , and she hates beer. 

These studies have been going on for years. We did radio collar studies for coyote predation studies 15 years ago when I worked for the parks division. We had zero fatalities due to coyotes. We had one poached and a few road kill. 

However, most of these studies not only mislead the reader with the wording, but also are conducted in very high density deer population areas. The results would be much different conducted outside of a park or suburb where the deer are thick and condensed. 

Turn a few coyotes loose in a pen with 500 rabbits and 10 deer and see what they go for.


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## miked913 (Feb 29, 2008)

They all have tons of #s that you can try an argue this or that but what the final results are in almost every single one of the state that coyotes have very little effect on the overall deer population, which I said originally, and asked if people would look it up and from their articles that they posted trying to debunk me every one concluded the same thing. Threads like this is why I try so hard to bite my tongue!


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

miked913 said:


> Threads like this is why I try so hard to bite my tongue!


Looks like you didn't try hard enough.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

buckeyebowman said:


> I guess the point would be that coyotes are NOT the primary reason for the reduction of the deer herd in Ohio! There's an interesting statement early on in the quote which most people would just skip right by. It says, "Although coyotes rarely take adult deer, they are primary predators of deer fawns." This sounds very sinister! But stop and think about it a minute! What other predators are there for deer fawns? Chipmunks? Mice? Voles? Groundhogs? Skunks? What?
> 
> Anybody who finds the above info surprising is far too easily surprised!
> 
> ...





miked913 said:


> They all have tons of #s that you can try an argue this or that but what the final results are in almost every single one of the state that coyotes have very little effect on the overall deer population, which I said originally, and asked if people would look it up and from their articles that they posted trying to debunk me every one concluded the same thing. Threads like this is why I try so hard to bite my tongue!


In response to both of you.

And again, not once in this thread have I ever implied that coyotes are the prime reasons for the reduction of the deer herd in Ohio. If I did, show the post.

You need to go back and start with my post #9 in which I believe was the first post in this entire thread that mentioned yotes. And if you bother to read the first part of that post, you'll know that we were talking about excessive bag limits. Yotes were brought into the conversation because they are an 'additional' thriving predator of today that wasn't around nearly as much many years ago.

So in short, today we have two major predators of deer that is hammering on our deer herd every year more than ever. More than in the 60's, 70s, 80's 90' etc. Those two predators are humans and a huge population of yotes that is growing at an alarming rate.
I've made other post in this thread insinuating the same....again....today...two major predators that have grown in population. One hammering predominantly (but not strictly) fawns, the other hammering mature deer. Sounds like a slam dunk huge herd reduction success story to me that's really been working well the last few years especially.

miked913 is the one that took off on the tangent in his post #15 claiming yotes had very little effect on deer. And claiming people were posting factless opinions.

Well, facts are yotes do have an impact on deer. If they never killed one adult deer(which is not correct)and only killed 30% of the fawn population(which according to stats is low) and humans are killing at the rate we are allowed to per year, deer dying of natural causes, diseases, hit by cars per year, do you really think our deer herd can continue to sustain?

Regardless of our differences in opinions on this topic as well as probably a few other about our deer herd...it's good to see that there are people that are at least interested/concerned enough to have this discussion.

For sure...time will tell

For now, I'm out of this one.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

Yep, count me out too.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

You use the word "major" when mentioning yotes. That's your problem. Yes a predator but not "major". Hunters and cars would be my first two finger points.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

My brother from Va hunts "two or three days" with me during the gun season(it's not about getting a deer, just two old guys wanting to spend some time together til time "runs out")! I can't afford to go there to hunt. Anyways, a license and either sex tag costs him $150! That is the least of his "expenses" and I'd estimate his total trip for the privilege to hunt in Ohio runs him in the realm of $1000! If every OOS hunter contributes that to our economy, I say that is something to encourage, not the other way around! JMTCW!


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

c. j. stone said:


> My brother from Va hunts "two or three days" with me during the gun season(it's not about getting a deer, just two old guys wanting to spend some time together til time "runs out")! I can't afford to go there to hunt. Anyways, a license and either sex tag costs him $150! That is the least of his "expenses" and I'd estimate his total trip for the privilege to hunt in Ohio runs him in the realm of $1000! If every OOS hunter contributes that to our economy, I say that is something to encourage, not the other way around! JMTCW!


Exactly! Look at what states like Illinois, Iowa, or Kansas charge for thier tags. There is no way that I would even consider paying what they are asking for a tag just to shoot a deer. With those prices I don't care what they have to offer.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

The people who complain about ohio being too cheap to hunt are the same ones who complain about other states being too expensive. 

As stated above, it's a minimum of $150 for someone to come here and have a chance to shoot one of our hooved rats. That's just license and tag. That's not including lodging, food, processing, etc. I don't see how you guys think that's cheap. You're either up to your ears in cash flow or delusional. Just because another state gouges people doesn't make us cheap.


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Also understand roaming Tame, lol DOG PACKS PREY on fawns but not as much as the yotes.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

beaver said:


> The people who complain about ohio being too cheap to hunt are the same ones who complain about other states being too expensive.
> 
> As stated above, it's a minimum of $150 for someone to come here and have a chance to shoot one of our hooved rats. That's just license and tag. That's not including lodging, food, processing, etc. I don't see how you guys think that's cheap. You're either up to your ears in cash flow or delusional. Just because another state gouges people doesn't make us cheap.


I'm not complaining. As difficult as is to get a job in this area.........ANYTHING that brings legal revenue is welcome. If anybody thinks that raising the nonresident tags will make less people hunt you're wrong. If anything they will offset the cost by spending less when they still come into Ohio to hunt. So would the complainers rather the state get that money or businesses in your local economy get that money.


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

That wasn't directed at you, but I disagree about the comment of raising the tags and less people hunting. 

Ohio isn't that special. It's really no better hunting than any other Midwestern state. The lower prices and ease of finding land (a lot of public) is what draws people here. 

Look what happened when Michigan decided to raise their rates. The amount of out of state hunters dropped significantly.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

beaver said:


> That wasn't directed at you, but I disagree about the comment of raising the tags and less people hunting.
> 
> Ohio isn't that special. It's really no better hunting than any other Midwestern state. The lower prices and ease of finding land (a lot of public) is what draws people here.
> 
> Look what happened when Michigan decided to raise their rates. The amount of out of state hunters dropped significantly.


Having spent alot of time hunting in Michigan I have to chime in on one point. When you have a two buck a year state with "the Michigan mentality" of brown it's down your real potential of killing a decent buck is about zero. Where I hunt up there if you were to kill a 130" deer you would win the buck pole. No questions about it. A single buck tag is around 190. Combo around 375. Anything with any antler on its head is dead. For what they have to offer it's not a good value. the only reason that I even bother hunting there is because I have friends there. I have only ever killed one buck there in the many years that I have hunted there. At least here in Ohio you have an opportunity to get on a good deer if you put your time in. Hunters will pay the extra for that reason alone. I just rather see the money go to the local economy vs the state.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

beaver said:


> That wasn't directed at you, but I disagree about the comment of raising the tags and less people hunting.
> 
> Ohio isn't that special. It's really no better hunting than any other Midwestern state. The lower prices and ease of finding land (a lot of public) is what draws people here.
> 
> Look what happened when Michigan decided to raise their rates. The amount of out of state hunters dropped significantly.


Ohio is special to most people. We can raise fantastic deer on a consistent basis. There might be a few states that are better, but only a handful. I for one am very happy to have deer of this caliber litterly in my own back yard. I talk to a lot out of state hunters who have never seen bucks like ours in their home states. I've talked to numerous out of state guys who kill 100-120" bucks while hunting here that are the biggest bucks of their life. They are all jacked up over deer that many Ohio boys pass all day long. We have it pretty good.


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

Soooo, coyotes aside, I take it nobody has heard anything about the rumor of tag prices for oos residents increasing is unfounded?


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