# Need to kill American Pondweed



## bcarmean

Well I have American Pondweed once again taking over my pond. I have purchased cutrine plus as well as Harvaster.. Although both products say they kill pondweed, the application instructions might as well be Japanese. Are either of these products OK to use for pondweed? If so what is the best way to apply for an amateur. My ponds a lil over 3/4 acre and 50% of it is less than 4ft the deepest point is around 9ft.


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## warden

Check with Lucas at ATAC in wilmington.


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## [email protected]

You have the right combo. I raked out as much as I could before spraying. I used a good quality garden rake with a rope tied to it. I didn't want to risk a low DO fish kill from the dying plants. Next I used the recommended dosage for Reward (I think it's the same active ingredient as Harvaster) and mixed it with Cutrine plus. Going off memory, I think it was 2/3 of a gallon of Reward and a gallon of cutrine diluted with tap water for my 1/2 acre pond. I sprayed it with a pump sprayer from the bank as most of my pondweed was near the shallow shoreline area. Results were visible in only a couple of hours. If you don't have any luck at ATAC, you may try to write or call the product Mfg.


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## Ben Fishing

What is the best weed and grass control around the pond? Would Roundup misted from a pump sprayer be fish and aquatic friendly?


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## hang_loose

Ben, I think you need to use Rodeo.......Roundup (I heard) is not good at all around your pond.


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## Fishman

The diquat in harvester is okay for american pondweed. Try to use as small of a droplet as possible, and you will see the damage quickly like pondfin mentioned. Endotholl containing products like Aquathol K or Hydrothol 191 completely decimate the plant though.










Fast forward 10 minutes.










These pictures were taken by me several years ago. If memory serves me correctly I was using a Cutrine/Hydrothol 191 mix, but I prefer Aquathol K.

Definitally not saying the harvester won't work, because it most certainly will!

Round up is not approved for aquatic use. But in regards to spraying american pondweed with glyphosate based aquatic products the results are lack luster at best. Back in my early days of killin' weeds I tried it and it looked like insect damage on the leaves after 2 weeks. I've never tried it since.

Heres a link to Fishman vs American Pondweed


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## hang_loose

Fishman, those are some awesome pictures. Just curious...Did the AP come back? The tilapia I put in my pond last year didn't want anything to do with it (or **** weed either). It gave the tilapia fry a place to hide in but I can't let either weed take over the pond.

Does Aquathol work on coonweed also?.....Thanks


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## bcarmean

Thanks Everyone for the help.. Fishman you are alway's a big help, thanks.. The pictures make me smile, is that strange, lol. Should I wait for the weed to fully surface like your pic's? it is only about 20% surfaced now.


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## Fishman

Provided it hasn't gone to seed, which it hasn't if only 20% has surfaced. Its reproductive parts will actually stick stand above the water line an inch or so. This will happen in about a month depending on which part of the state you're in. I live in the northern portion of the state and american pondweed hasn't showed up yet.

Unfortunatly Aquathol does little to coontail at low doses. Diquat is the superior product for that plant. In you case, I'de rather have diquat for the coontail and american pond weed rather than Aqauthol. There's really only a few plants I prefer endothols for, it just so happens that American pondweed is one of them.

Nothing strange about thinking the pictures are cool, I get all hot and bothered also when it comes to killing plants.

edit: If you american pondweed went to seed last year, you'll likley have it for a year or two after this even if you kill the adult plants.


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## Fishman

You don't have to wait for the leaves to surface, but the results will be quicker if they are on top. Look back at the pictures I posted, you can actually see where the foliage has yet to burn underwater.

Again, so long as it hasn't seeded, theres nothing wrong with letting it come to the surface and then spraying.


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## bcarmean

Fishman, what would I mix the Harvaster whith and at what ratio. A small bottle of this stuff cost me $56.


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## chopper

I had a bad, bad milfoil problem a few years ago. I was given so much advise about what pond chemicals do what, I about went broke. Then a guy told me about Karmex. Its a farm chemical. 5 lbs cost $44.00. I used one pond per acre. The milfoil died and never came back. My other good weeds and grasses came back and my pond is just fine. I know about using chemicals like this. Yes, it does kill most everything. I tried navagate which cost about $300.oo per time and it just did not work. I took care of my problem for about 10 bucks.


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## Fishman

Karmex is illegal for aquatic use for a whole lot of good reasons. Most know this, unfourtanly a lot of people do not. Do a simple google search on karmex and it's self explanitory. You could of fixed your milfoil with problem with a redicuiously low dosage of Sonar and not done extensive damage to your ponds enviroment or people down stream of it.

Sigh...



Back to American pondweed. For a 3/4 acre pond, depending on the density, I could easily see you needing a gallon of diquat and a gallon of Cutrine. If it's 5' out all around the bank, for example, a half gallon of diquat and a half gallon of Cutrine with a few ounces of surfactant per gallon of water you add to this mix should do the trick.


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## hang_loose

Thanks for the info Fishman...Appreciate it.


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## [email protected]

Grass carp can do a pretty good job of eating young plants as they sprout. Older grass carp need to be replaced with young ones periodically. Mechanically remove as much of the weeds as possible, kill the remaining with chemicals and let the grass carp maintain. Spot treat as needed if the grass carp can't keep up.

Karmex is dangerous and can cause genetic problems with fish. I have heard of it killing grass and trees for 40 or 50' around a pond. It has been used to kill bluegreen algae in commercial catfish farms in Louisiana but under permit only and in a scheduled, controlled dosage over 10 days. This is a whole different type of management where the fish are relying on multiple feedings of pellets per day and not a balanced ecosystem. It will kill all plants and algae and basically sterilize a pond. Clear, sterile water may be nice for swimming but it does not grow fish. It can take many years for a pond to recover from the use of Karmex...not to mention that it's illegal and irresponsible.


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## chopper

I had no idea that karmex is illegal to use in ponds. I have used it for 4 or 5 years. I have had no problems. I maintain a great bass population with some over 5 lbs. Hybred gills over 10 inches. I am not irresponsible. I hope those irresponsible farmers are not letting any of this get into creeks, ditches, field tile or the air. They will kill people. I think that it would have nicer for you guys to inform me about this mistake and not jump into my --it so quickly. I will not be using this any longer and differently not telling anyone else to use it.


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## [email protected]

Chopper,

The question isn't so much if it's illegal but rather if it's _legal_ or recommended for aquatic use. If it's for aquatic use it will say so on the label. If it's not labeled with instructions for use in your pond don't use it. When I first built my pond, a farmer made the exact same recommendation to me. I asked a fish farm/pond management company about it and the owner's exact words were "DO YOU WANT YOUR FROGS TO HAVE 4 LEGS !?!!" Well yes...but I don't think that's what he meant. Good thing we have the internet now as it's really easy to find information...as you've probably discovered the vast amount of info about Karmex now after the fact. In addition, the label on the bag says "_For terrestrial uses, do not apply directly to water, to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Do not contaminate water when cleaning equipment or disposing of equipment washwaters. Cover or incorporate spills."_ IMO, not reading the label is irresponsible as is not using these types of products in accordance with their labels.


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## [email protected]

The active ingredient, glyphosate, in Roundup and Rodeo is the same. The difference is in the surfactants and adjuvants. 

As far as economics: Rodeo contains almost 54% glyphosate so $100 for 2.5 gallons is pretty cheap compared to the super concentrate Roundup (the cheapest way to buy for the general public, even the mix sold to farmers is 48% I think) where a quart runs about $45 and it's about 50% glyphosate. You'll have to look hard for the super concentrate (lowe's is the only place I've found that stocks it) as most of the Roundup on store shelves is far less concentrated.

If you buy a 2.5 gallon jug of Rodeo, you're paying around $0.58 per ounce of glyphosate. If you buy the most economical concentrate of Roundup...you're paying $2.81 per ounce of glyphosate. Of course, you'll probably need to add an approved surfactant to the Rodeo.


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## rustyfish

I stand corrected, i looked into rodeo and roundup a little more and I had been misinformed. What should have been a vary knowledgeable source told me that roundup would pass the testing for aquatic use. But it would raise to cost to do the testing and carry the approval. I am not finding anything to support this and I'm not sure why I was told this.


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## JLFish

If your like me and can't get it right give these guys a call they work all over Ohio and my 1 acre pond looks great. aqua master (937) 707-5798


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