# Tilapia Confusion



## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

We stocked tilapia from a dealer, not Rex. I've been looking at pictures for the last week, comparing them to what we got. What we got does not look like the pictures, not is shape or fins nor color or color pattern. But I just don't know.

I've been in email contact with Rex, and spoke to him on the phone. Like the concerned expert he is, he is giving us 10 pounds of his stock. I will then know for sure if there is a difference. He doesn't want the fish to get a bad name because purchases were made in ignorance, I have to respect that. The fact is that the purchase was made by price, but like if you bought a truck thinking it had a V-6 in it, then found it had a V-4, that price becomes unattractive. You have to look past price and more into performance. 

What I'm reading that concerns me is that a hybrid is becoming more common. That hybrid is a cross between Mozambique Tilapia and Wami Tilapia. The practice is used in aquaculture because it produces predominately male fish. From what I understand they do that so they don't have to give hormones and such to convert them to male and the7y can call them "Organic". So if you get that hybrid you would get few females and not have the spawning activity you are looking for. *The fact is you just can't redirect fish intended for aquaculture to do what we want them to do, it simply won't work.*

Rex put forward a hypothesis concerning combination stocking. I sent him an email trying to show my thoughts on this. I could be wrong, despite logic, heck I probably am wrong. 

Here it is:



> Rex,
> I found that I have the 11th off. If I call Inspired by Nature early enough that morning I don't see why I can't go that day, if it's ok with him.
> 
> I've been thinking about the combination stocking we talked about. It makes perfect sense. If you stock both together you would get pure Mozambique offspring, pure blue offspring and hybrid offspring. The hybrid offspring would go into lethargy between the pure Mozambique and the pure blues so you would seem to have a continuous stream of feed for the bass rather than a short burst. In our pond that fall of 15 degrees can take more than a month, barring a sudden cold blast.
> ...


Still, I am confused.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

High 5 to you Rainman!!!


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Honestly Gary, I don't think you'd get many if any hybrids. Moz. and blues are nearly as distant as redears and bluegill...hybrids can happen in a natural setting but it's rare. My guess is you'll never see a small dieing tilapia in a pond with bass no matter the type.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Honestly Gary, I don't think you'd get many if any hybrids. Moz. and blues are nearly as distant as redears and bluegill...hybrids can happen in a natural setting but it's rare. My guess is you'll never see a small dieing tilapia in a pond with bass no matter the type.


So you would get a die off, then a break, then another. Still sounds good.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I used tilapia from Rex last year and they worked great.

This year just for the convenience of the delivery I decided to use the new source and was assured that they were "pure" strain blues.

I order 110 4-6" fish. 

When I looked at the fish during stocking they, in appearance, looked just like the ones I got from Rex last year. I know there is no good way to tell by just appearance but that is the only comparison I had to go on.

My concern was the size. These were small fish. I'm sure the vast majority reached the 4" threshold, no doubt, but there certainly were not many pushing the 6" length.

My bass and cats had a feast for a while immediately after stocking. The tilapia were swimming around in schools on the surface and were just getting blasted for a couple of hours. How many survived?, don't know, I sure quite a few made it through the onslaught. 

The fish I got from Rex last year were very large by comparison and did a great job on the algae. I still had live tilapia into November last year. Are the fish from Rex normally that larger size every year? I don't know. If I knew for sure that the fish I would be getting from Rex would always be of a larger size my decision would be simple for next years stocking.

I am going to just have to take a wait and see for this years results, just don't know yet.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Lundy, I think you've made a good observation. I too think larger, say 6-8" tilapia are better for stocking into ponds with bass and larger cats. For example, I stocked hundreds of less than 4" one year and 16 larger than 6" another. 16 large tilapia were enough (with some reproduction in the pond) to maintain my pond, after an early season algaecide treatment. The year I stocked several hundred smaller fish, I saw a very quick reduction in filamentous algae, without an algaecide treatment, but over the next several weeks it became apparent that only a small percentage of those small fish remained. It is not cost effective to stock 4" tilapia where 14" bass are present as they can easily be easily consumed resulting in very little return on investment. I also believe that stocking a minimum amount of tilapia for the primary purpose of weed control is most practical, with forage as a secondary benefit with the exception of those who are trying to reduce muck which may be a good case for higher stocking rates.

Garry, your theory about stages die off is good but I think in practice the significance will be neglible. Bass and catfish can consume remarkable amounts of dead or dying fish in a small amount of time.

As far as redirecting those intended for aquaculture, you're right. That's been the challenge all along until Rainman came into the picture. Every other commercial source of tilapia I've found have been all male. Many of the breeders use "supermales" for breeding. The way it was explained to me is that a super male is created by hormonaly reversersing the sex of a male (chromosomes XY) tilapia and breeding it with another male tilapia (XY) will result in offspring with varying ratios of female (XX), male (XY), and hopefully supermale (YY)...When a supermale (YY) breeds with a female (XX), the result will nearly always be male (XY). This is great for aquaculture as the fish are busy gaining weight vs. breeding and producing more fish.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

The fish we got were pretty large over all. Some were in the 5" area, but others were pretty big. Of the dead ones I pulled off, two were about 6-7 inches and one was at least 10 inches. 

I guess the temp will let me know.

Our algae was largely gone before stocking. Now it's duck weed. There was a good bit of algae right through the winter with the short freeze over. Our pond got not much more than skim ice. I have a windmill stone set in a corner, shallow, the algae in that corner was thick all winter.

we raked a good amount last spring, enough to drop the level of phosphorus a good bit I'd say. With no inflow because of no rain there has been no new bloom. No rain coming that I see, we may have to pump water up from the creek. That would be in the short periods that the creek runs, right after a rain storm.


So I go this Saturday to Inspired by Nature to get these fish. Don, the owner, said he didn't want to give them to me today because he wanted to treat them and make sure they are OK after transport. He wants to let them set a few days.

Don isn't making nickle on this, neither is Rex, they are fostering a long term customer here. Treat me right and I come back. Kudos for both men, dang fine operations.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Very nice of them to step up and correct the problem and take care of their customer. I hope they work well for you and I am interested in your results.

That filamentous algae grows under ice pretty well. It's going pretty strong in February at my place, I can see it on my Aquavu when I'm ice fishing. By the time it can be treated with algaecide in late Spring, it's usually getting pretty thick.

Keep in mind that aeration may shorten the time the tilapia have in the pond as they will not have warm spots like they would in an unmixed pond. Mixing the water also dilutes the planktonic algae at the surface making the water appear clearer than an non-aerated pond.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Very nice of them to step up and correct the problem and take care of their customer. I hope they work well for you and I am interested in your results.
> 
> That filamentous algae grows under ice pretty well. It's going pretty strong in February at my place, I can see it on my Aquavu when I'm ice fishing. By the time it can be treated with algaecide in late Spring, it's usually getting pretty thick.
> 
> Keep in mind that aeration may shorten the time the tilapia have in the pond as they will not have warm spots like they would in an unmixed pond. Mixing the water also dilutes the planktonic algae at the surface making the water appear clearer than an non-aerated pond.


I nurse that aerator down, running it in the warmth of the day in later fall. We have a timer on it. I bring it down slower than it goes up. Shut down at 45 degrees, that was around November 10th last year.


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