# .50 cal hammer.....ouch



## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

all i can say is wow, not the brightest bulb in the chandelier

**warning very graphic pic**

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1048331


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

LOL.. I thought you were talking about a .50 cal muzzleloader.

Hey if this guys this stupid, he did them a favor getting away from live ammo before he killed someone. I heard of some dumb azz stuff going on over there, this ranks real close to the top.


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## Wiper Swiper (May 24, 2005)

I agree with some of the comments in the link. That doesn't look like something that happened from a gun powder explosion.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm on AR15 all the time, how did I miss that?? Darwin award!


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Wiper Swiper said:


> I agree with some of the comments in the link. That doesn't look like something that happened from a gun powder explosion.


if you look close that hand is burnt up pretty good, the blood probably covered up alot of the power burn. the palm and dangling fingers are burnt up. if he was using it as a hammer and banging the base (primer) he would have had his fingers wrapped around the case making the explosion even greater. i buy it. looks like it hurt, probable hurting him this very [email protected]


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

You can't fix stupid!


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## FSHNERIE (Mar 5, 2005)

I'd say that hand was removed.....


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

ezbite said:


> if you look close that hand is burnt up pretty good, the blood probably covered up alot of the power burn. the palm and dangling fingers are burnt up. if he was using it as a hammer and banging the base (primer) he would have had his fingers wrapped around the case making the explosion even greater. i buy it. looks like it hurt, probable hurting him this very [email protected]


ezbite,I am sorry but I dont follow??...The only time a round would explode is if it cooked off..You could technically hold the casing and strike the primer, and your hand would just get hot from the powder igniting.It would leave blisters.Like I said,the casing dosnt do anything explosive under these circumstances..I have seen some older surplus ammo get shot,and then the casing would get ejected,and it looked like it split down the side...But your talkin ammo that was 60 years old..The only way this could have went down,is if he had his hand over the PROJECTILE,and was using the base of the round to hammer in the pin...I doubt he was doing that though cause it would hurt your hand pretty good to beat on somthing with the pointy end in your palm..We had a couple ball pin hammers for those pins just incase...None of use would use live ammo for anything other then takin care of businness..A .50 cal case holds a tremendous amount of pressure...I dont see it blowing up in someones hand like that..


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

Iraqvet said:


> ezbite,I am sorry but I dont follow??...The only time a round would explode is if it cooked off..You could technically hold the casing and strike the primer, and your hand would just get hot from the powder igniting.It would leave blisters.Like I said,the casing dosnt do anything explosive under these circumstances..I have seen some older surplus ammo get shot,and then the casing would get ejected,and it looked like it split down the side...But your talkin ammo that was 60 years old..The only way this could have went down,is if he had his hand over the PROJECTILE,and was using the base of the round to hammer in the pin...I doubt he was doing that though cause it would hurt your hand pretty good to beat on somthing with the pointy end in your palm..We had a couple ball pin hammers for those pins just incase...None of use would use live ammo for anything other then takin care of businness..A .50 cal case holds a tremendous amount of pressure...I dont see it blowing up in someones hand like that..


There is a lot of gun powder in a .50 BMG round. The casing would have a violent reaction with so much powder to ignite. The human hand is pretty frail when you think about it. Just thin muscle tissue and tendons and ligaments and thin bones with many small joints. That guy may have kept his thumb - but he probably lost the whole hand.


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

There is alot of powder in the case...But the case dosnt explode when the primer is struck..The case is made to endure the powder ignition..Otherwise they wouldnt be safe to shoot..


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

All cases expand when ignited, the reason they don't rupture is because the chamber doesn't allow it. It restricts their expansion and forces the explosion out the muzzle. I'll make you a bet, that if you grasp a live .50 round in your hand, bullet on the side of your thumb (pointing up), rasie your hand over your head and slam your hand (pinky down) on an object hard enough to ignite that primer, you will be missing some fingers. Call me so I can video it

when I was young and dumb  I knew this crazy kid that threw a live .45 round off the top row of the high school stadium into the empty parking lot below just to see if it'd go bang, it went bang very loud and made a very bright flash. If memory serves me correct it was just .45 cal ball ammo, nothing special. What about the stories you hear every year about some kid getting his fingers blown off by a firecracker? It's just paper and gunpower, surely nowhere the amont of powder that's in the big .50


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

ezbite said:


> All cases expand when ignited, the reason they don't rupture is because the chamber doesn't allow it. It restricts their expansion and forces the explosion out the muzzle. I'll make you a bet, that if you grasp a live .50 round in your hand, bullet on the side of your thumb (pointing up), rasie your hand over your head and slam your hand (pinky down) on an object hard enough to ignite that primer, you will be missing some fingers. Call me so I can video it
> 
> when I was young and dumb  I knew this crazy kid that threw a live .45 round off the top row of the high school stadium into the empty parking lot below just to see if it'd go bang, it went bang very loud and made a very bright flash. If memory serves me correct it was just .45 cal ball ammo, nothing special. What about the stories you hear every year about some kid getting his fingers blown off by a firecracker? It's just paper and gunpower, surely nowhere the amont of powder that's in the big .50


If the bullet is touching somthing,yeah it will go with it..If you made a fist around the the case,and didnt touch the bullet,then thats different..The cases are pretty tough...The bullet will have enough pressure behind to come out before the case explodes..Rounds are built to be shipped and carried..They are tough..While I have never seen a .45 round get dropped off a school roof,I have seen a .308 round get thrown about 90 feet up and out and then land in a gravel driveway..While I wouldnt make a habbit of that,it did not explode..Bullets dont explode from impact,they explode by ignition..So they would have to land just right to go off...I also wouldnt see how a machine gun like the M249 SAW could fire almost 1,000 rounds a minute,and keep that rate of fire with cartridges that wants to explode in the chamber.I mean,the brass is getting ejected literally as soon as its fired.I would have no problem holding a round in my hand that was within the right load peramiters, and have it go off...I would like a glove for the heat though..And I would NOT be touching the bullet....


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

well, i am not an engineer nor do i play one on tv and i did not stay at a holiday inn express last night. however the story seems plausable to me and it was supposedly distributed by the dept of defense and we all know our govt. sources are to be completely trusted and they would never lie to us now dont we.

as stated above i think it could have happened as told and cant imagine anyone being dumb enough to use a .50 cal round as a hammer........however it happened it sure does look like it would smart a tad and i bet that is the last time that guy did it!


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## krm (Jul 28, 2007)

The casing doesn't have to rupture to blow a hand apart. When the primer ignites the powder, not only is the bullet propelled one direction, but the casing would be propelled in the opposite direction. 

Any human tissue in either objects path would be toast.

The idea that you could hold it, and it would just burn you is laughable at best, when you consider the force you would need to actually hold it in place. The bullet and casing are BOTH projectiles in this case.


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## cptn_janks (May 30, 2010)

ezbite said:


> All cases expand when ignited, the reason they don't rupture is because the chamber doesn't allow it.


sometimes it does. 










cheap combloc brass

it could be worse... the gun could fire out of battery and lead to something like this










you wouldnt want to be holding a pistol in your hand when this happens. i think this guy escaped without injury. probably had to change his shorts though lol.










wouldnt want to be looking down the sights of your rifle and have it explode 8 inches from your face either...


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## Iraqvet (Aug 27, 2009)

krm said:


> The casing doesn't have to rupture to blow a hand apart. When the primer ignites the powder, not only is the bullet propelled one direction, but the casing would be propelled in the opposite direction.
> 
> Any human tissue in either objects path would be toast.
> 
> The idea that you could hold it, and it would just burn you is laughable at best, when you consider the force you would need to actually hold it in place. The bullet and casing are BOTH projectiles in this case.


Your right,I doubt you could hold a .50 cal without it flyinging out of your hand...Thats not the disscusion though...Its about casing not being blown up whenever the primer is struck..As far as the combloc brass in the picture, our military dosnt use it...As far as the pistol round casing,it looks like a round that had been shot out of a gun that was of a different caliber...I do not believe rounds are like firecrackers..I dont think if you struck the primer of a bullet while it was out in the open,that it would explode


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## Lynxis (Sep 21, 2009)

Theve done this on mythbusters.

Nothing explodes.

The case goes one way, the bullet goes the other.

Neither do a significant amount of damage.

There is the powder burn to contend with though, and there is alot of powder in a .50 cal bullet.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

They say the casing becomes the projectile. I could see that happening, but hard to imagine that much damage. But like someone said, theres a lot of gunpowder in a .50cal cartridge.

*** Actually, upon further review, they used .50cal cartridges in their testing. I don't think the damage done in the picture is possible based upon the Mythbusters video footage.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

That one is hard to watch! Lol


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

In Knox County I watched my hosts using live rounds as earplugs while shooting guns.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

On the Mythbusters video look carefully at the 1 .50 cal round that did "cook off". The seat that actually held the round was both split and flattened. Actually holding the round and accidently firing the primer without the chamber to contain the force and direct it down the barrel can very well result in a similar result, with the combustion gases being expelled right against you hand will inflict catastrophic injuries and burns, thus mangling the hand...


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

Fast-forward to 2:00


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Mythbusters - Bullets Thrown Onto Campfire - Are They Lethal? - YouTube
> 
> They say the casing becomes the projectile. I could see that happening, but hard to imagine that much damage. But like someone said, theres a lot of gunpowder in a .50cal cartridge.
> 
> *** Actually, upon further review, they used .50cal cartridges in their testing. I don't think the damage done in the picture is possible based upon the Mythbusters video footage.




did you watch the video you posted? "the bullet becomes a pipe bomb" is the quote I heard


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Yep, over 50,000 psi of escaping gasses and some case fragmentation.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Yeah I watched the videos(and others) and the explosions that resulted. Weakest pipe bombs I've ever seen. 

Here ya go. This image has been aroun for a while. Here's another blokes take on it.



> Not only is there a lack of blood as noted by Mike and not only is it not dripping at it should be, but it the tissue there is largely dried. Note the lack of a tournequet, not that one should be used, but that would be the only way to account for such a cessation of blood and it would have been in place for a while.
> 
> The pic of where the incident happened shows no evidence.
> 
> ...


Whole discussion here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-413633.html

I dunno. Color me skeptical BUuuut you also won't see me using a .50 bmg round as a hammer anytime soon


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Lundy said:


> Yep, over 50,000 psi of escaping gasses and some case fragmentation.


I'm guessing you are talking chamber pressure? Quite a bit different when unchambered and nothing to focus the energy I'm guessing.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Consider that a standard .50 cal round out of "Ma Duece" set at a 40 degree angle has a maximum range (note: NOT `effective` range) of almost 4 MILES. The force required to push that slug down that very long barrel and still go that far is considerable; without a chamber to contain it and with a split casing, it is going to become a high speed scalpel and God help anything in it`s path...as far as the lack of blood partial cauterization can be common in flash burns...In the early 1990`s 3 kids were killed when they tried to drill into a supposedly waterlogged 40mm Bofors round near Port Clinton; 2 of the 3 teens were killed solely by the blast effect which largely leveled the garage they were attempting this in...


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

Wiper Swiper said:


> I agree with some of the comments in the link. That doesn't look like something that happened from a gun powder explosion.


if he was hammering with the shell, he had his hand wrapped tight around it. If you have compression and it explodes, bye bye hand. Same thing with a small fire cracker, you can lay it on your hand and get burned, but if you close your fist, again bye bye hand.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I'm guessing you are talking chamber pressure? Quite a bit different when unchambered and nothing to focus the energy I'm guessing.


ive got a few .50 cal live rounds and a video camera. if you'd like to try this, ill film it and we can do it at my range, PM me


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

ezbite, may I "suggest' having him put his signature and the date to a lawyer countersigned/ witnessed waiver against any potential liabilities 1st? (Just in case...) BTW, filming that at close range should be done REMOTELY...And would it be a "good idea" to already have like a squad and EMS persons on hand (pardon the pun) before attempting this? You can`t be "too safe" when doing that...


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

ezbite said:


> ive got a few .50 cal live rounds and a video camera. if you'd like to try this, ill film it and we can do it at my range, PM me


Refer to previous post saying you won't see me doing it anytime soon 

Not saying it COULDN'T HAPPEN, I just don't think thats what it would look like. Even googling firecracker accidents, many of the injuries are more severe(hand, fingers completely gone)
So as far as the picture being of the actual event.. I have serious issues believing something when I can't find a single official document or reference regarding said anything. And ESPECIALLY when someone intentionally doctors something to look official. I can't find that supposed safety bulletin anywhere amogst many others available on:
https://safety.army.mil/groundsafety/SAFETYPROGRAMS/SafetyAlerts/tabid/2329/Default.aspx

So that tells me someone made it up.

Cook off is different from a kaboom:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot9.htm

Those cooked off rounds barely breeched the magazine...

Heres an account of a guy who had a .50 cal round blow up in his hand:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk...st-had-50-bmg-projectile-explode-my-hand.html


Silent Mike, The difference between a firecracker and ammunition is one is jacketed in thin paper, the other metal.. One needs more pressure to do more damage, the other has it built in. Path of least resistance probably means the gasses escape out the front of the round or through primer whether your hand(minimal resistance compared to brass) is there or not. A human hand isn't going to make a brass casing any more explosive than a t-bone steak would. There's a reason we don't build bombs from top sirloin and it's not because it's delicious on the grill. 

EZ. Remotely detonate one of those rounds in the name of science please! You have a range, I'll buy the round. How can we do this safely? I'd like to get some slow-mo footage if possible! Cant be too hard to rig something up remotely to strike the primer can it? Hmmmmm

I like this post the most from the discussion in the original post. He said it way better than I ever could:



> Damn that's bad. I feel for the soldier, and hope that they could save the two fingers and thumb.
> 
> Yes, that was not his best choice in using the bullet as a punch or to strike with. Everyone is capable of having a brain fart at times in the course of your work. In the case of soldiers, their work places them around some things that can be very unforgiving if mistreated. I build houses, and once shot a nail through two fingers because I wasn't thinking. It was dumb to have my hand that close, and **** happened. I bet you that I think every single time now before I fire a nail. Fortunately all it cost me was a trip to the ER and some co-pay. This poor guy did not get off that easy. I will not ever say that the soldier was dumb or undertrained. He was conducting himself as a soldier, in a "can do" fashion, and had a brain fart. God bless this young man, and I thank you for your service. ~ VaFarmBoy


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Massilonbuckeye,

I think you need to go and spend a night at a Holiday Inn Express


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

Speaking of cooking rounds,


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Lundy said:


> Massilonbuckeye,
> 
> I think you need to go and spend a night at a Holiday Inn Express


Why you say that? Sorry, I don't get it.


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## scallop (Apr 1, 2007)

Lundy said:


> Massilonbuckeye,
> 
> I think you need to go and spend a night at a Holiday Inn Express


I see what you did there.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Looks like I'll be in pretty good company! Believe what you want but that "official" document is fake. You wont find it hosted on one credible or official website.. Ar15.com is just linking it, not hosting it. All of the real safety bulletins can be found by Google on the Armys website.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

The whole photo looks fake anyway...his fingers don't look burnt at all..just covered in dried blood...which is RED...it would be black or very close to black if i were real.. photo shopped


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

Iraqvet said:


> ezbite,I am sorry but I dont follow??...The only time a round would explode is if it cooked off..You could technically hold the casing and strike the primer, and your hand would just get hot from the powder igniting.It would leave blisters.Like I said,the casing dosnt do anything explosive under these circumstances..I have seen some older surplus ammo get shot,and then the casing would get ejected,and it looked like it split down the side...But your talkin ammo that was 60 years old..The only way this could have went down,is if he had his hand over the PROJECTILE,and was using the base of the round to hammer in the pin...I doubt he was doing that though cause it would hurt your hand pretty good to beat on somthing with the pointy end in your palm..We had a couple ball pin hammers for those pins just incase...None of use would use live ammo for anything other then takin care of businness..A .50 cal case holds a tremendous amount of pressure...I dont see it blowing up in someones hand like that..


Iraqvet, you have a misconception about brass cased ammo. If the firing sequence is initiated (striking the primer) without the case being surrounded and supported by the chamber then the case ruptures and or fragments from the powder charge igniting. It is only the support and direction of force the chamber provides that causes the projectile to be the dangerous part.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Sir Issac Newton covered that: "For every physical action, there is an opposite and "EQUAL" reaction..." The action of the projectile leaving the barrel is countered by the recoil mechanism built in; without the chamber securely holding that cartridge...OUCH ! (or worse...)


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