# Eye spawn question



## large6er (Sep 1, 2013)

I need to clear up a debate amongst friends. In our lakes, reservoirs and rivers where walleye, sauger and saugeye are stocked, which of these will reproduce at spawn time. My understanding is that each will reproduce with its like species only, some friends say none reproduce on inland waters and some only walleye will reproduce. 

I need the true answer from our biologist friends in the crowd or those that stayed at a Holiday in express last night


----------



## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Not a biologist. Butt, saugeye will go through the motion but with no results(funtionly steril)...
Walleyes will reproduce,and saugers reproduce. And walleye can re produce with a sauger and make more saugeye.... for the most part all the lakes in central ohio are stocked with saugeye,except cj brown to the west of us....
Now there is a more technical/accurate answer. But this what i know. I think there may be a very small percentage of cases were saugeye do spawn but very,very small...

If you do some seaeching on here you can find some great saugeye reading posted up by the late Jim Corey(was a saugeye guru)


----------



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

large6er......doubtful you can find a "clear answer". Biologists are all over the map. Most answers are "no they don't cross-breed, _*but*_" or "yes they do cross breed, *but*". The clarity you seek doesn't appear to exist. A couple links below, one from the Ohio DNR, demonstrate the confusion.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/enewspages/ItsintheGenes/tabid/23156/Default.aspx

http://www.fondriest.com/news/saugeye.htm


----------



## EnonEye (Apr 13, 2011)

Here's my KISS answer... for all practicle purposes anytime you catch a saugeye or walleye in an inland lake they have been planted there. Lake Erie is the only body of water in Ohio where they reproduce on their own.


----------



## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

EnonEye said:


> Here's my KISS answer... for all practicle purposes anytime you catch a saugeye or walleye in an inland lake they have been planted there. Lake Erie is the only body of water in Ohio where they reproduce on their own.


Yea i agree.but not because walleye cant but because lack of spawning habitat in our ohio lakes.. rivers another story


----------



## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

The ODNR does trap net surveys during the spawn, creel surveys during boating season, YOY surveys in the fall...but I doubt any of that data would yield definitive answers to the op's questions. 

There's an old post on this site by the late great Jim Corey (username "Corey") that provides some statistical analysis of saugeye reproduction in the lab and in the field. I'll look for it when I get more time.

*Update
See post #16 in this link:
http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=58564

Mr. Corey is no longer with us, so please do not post in that 2006 thread.


----------



## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Thanks net...


----------



## large6er (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks guys for the great information and wow Corey had some great information. Zaraspook You are right, No they don't reproduce but they do kinda reproduce. I guess Mother Nature will decide what happens.


----------



## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

I fished with Corey for several years. Tournaments and pleasure fishing. 
I swear it was like going to Saugeye College each time. The man was brilliant!


----------



## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Lewis said:


> I fished with Corey for several years. Tournaments and pleasure fishing.
> I swear it was like going to Saugeye College each time. The man was brilliant!


Thats awesome. I always enjoyed his posts! I actually just re-read the stuff he did on "heavy metal" saugeye.... i never fished wuth or met jim but man did i learn alot reading his posts!


----------



## Hatchetman (Apr 13, 2004)

Like Lewis I fished with Jim quite a bit and I have never met anyone that had the knowledge that Jim had. He was an amazing individual. The man would share any info he had with anyone, ask and he would answer. I am 70 now and I have no doubt that I will never meet anyone like Jim Corey again. Sure do miss him and our buddy Misfit. By the way, walleye do spawn in Berlin and Mesquito(spel) also I believe.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Walleye will spawn in Inland lakes, but the habitat is not condusive for survival of many, if any eggs, there is no Inland lake that has a sustainable population. 
We have a couple windswept gravel bars at CJ that they spawn on and tear themselves up...but with the deep water so close and silt on the bars...very few eggs could survive.
Every couple years the COE has to raise the lake level EARLY, due to heavy rain and snow melt and they can get up in the creek to spawn (Normally the COE doesn't raise levels until the spawn is over), but with all the run-off no one really knows how many eggs may survive and how few fish actually make it to adulthood!

We will be having a Cover drop meeting again in the Spring and we normally have it at CJ Brown...The Head Fish Biologist and Manager of the SW district ODNR (THE GATOR QUEEN) is at every meeting and will talk to you about Walleye all day long if you want! VERY, VERY, Interesting!


----------



## jkf11j (Oct 28, 2013)

I have done lots of research and called some hatcheries on this issue. What I have gathered is that saugeye will actually go through ALL of the motions when it comes to spawning. They come upstream, they spawn, they even blow eggs but the eggs just die off. Saugeye is a hybrid fish that can't reproduce. Sorry if that's already been posted I haven't read every post


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

jkf11j said:


> I have done lots of research and called some hatcheries on this issue. What I have gathered is that saugeye will actually go through ALL of the motions when it comes to spawning. They come upstream, they spawn, they even blow eggs but the eggs just die off. Saugeye is a hybrid fish that can't reproduce. Sorry if that's already been posted I haven't read every post


Saugeye CAN reproduce with the parent species....right on the ODNR site!
That's why they don't want people releasing saugeye in the brood lakes.
This is one thing "she" always talks about!


----------



## jkf11j (Oct 28, 2013)

Yes they CAN reproduce. I said they do everything. The eggs just don't survive according to what I've read up on etc.


----------



## jkf11j (Oct 28, 2013)

I suppose I should have been more clear when throwing around the word reproduce!!! Let me rephrase myself... The fish swim upstream, then they have sex, then the females get pregnant, and then the females give birth, and then the kids (eggs) are stillborn


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

jkf11j said:


> I suppose I should have been more clear when throwing around the word reproduce!!! Let me rephrase myself... The fish swim upstream, then they have sex, then the females get pregnant, and then the females give birth, and then the kids (eggs) are stillborn


Please I'm just trying to help with the discussion and give info....You are correct, saugeye cannot reproduce with other saugeye....the problem arises that THEY CAN reproduce with Pure Walleye or Pure Sauger, the eggs are viable, can hatch, and you have more saugeye in a brood lake which CAN affect your pure Walleye genetics.
The Gator Queen tells us to kill/EAT any saugeye, if one is caught at CJ.


----------



## jkf11j (Oct 28, 2013)

That may be true. I have not researched that. I know that saugeye cannot mate and make more saugeye. I didn't research if they can mate with walleye or sauger.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

jkf11j said:


> That may be true. I have not researched that. I know that saugeye cannot mate and make more saugeye. I didn't research if they can mate with walleye or sauger.


Heck, at one of the meetings I told her to start stocking saugeye in CJ also....Hell, she almost came out of her chair after me!
Then she explained it all!


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

jkf11j said:


> That may be true. I have not researched that. I know that saugeye cannot mate and make more saugeye. I didn't research if they can mate with walleye or sauger.



_A negative aspect of stocking hybrids is the possible dilution of gene pools in reproducing Walleye or Sauger populations. During this study we captured mature male and female hybrids. Male hybrids from Deer Creek Lake have been backcrossed with female Walleyes and the resulting eggs had about 10% hatching success (T. Nagel, personal communication). Hearn (1986) produced viable offspring from a cross of reciprocal hybrids and from backcrossing female reciprocal hybrids with male Saugers. Introgressive hybridization of Walleye and Sauger has been noted in natural populations (Billington et al. 1988). Where hybrids occur together with either parent species, they might interfere with reproduction of these fish or possibly spawn successfully with the parent species and introduce new genetic material into existing populations. More work is needed to determine the reproductive potential of hybrids in the field and the likelihood of backcrossings.
In conclusion, it appears that hybrids are a feasible alternative to Walleyes for stocking, particularly in impoundments with low retention times. However, before hybrids are stocked, consideration should be given to the possibility of genetic intermixing with existing populations of Walleyes or Saugers. 
_


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

And surprise!

_The study done by OSU, Division of Biosciences, in 1982, funded by the ODNR, not only proved that Saugeyes can reproduce with either parent SPECIES, but also that they can reproduce intraspecies, Saugeye to Saugeye. Parent means either Walleye or Sauger, NOT their actual parent, i.e. Mother or Father. The same study also showed that Saugeye eggs, when fertilized by milt from male Saugeyes, actually had a higher percentage of egg viability than when backbreeding with the parent species. Saugeyes , In the original study by Hearns. You can see that the rate of swim-up-fry is higher in the incidence of Saugeye to Saugeye than in the case of backbreeding Saugeye to Sauger; 46% to 38% respectively_


----------



## jkf11j (Oct 28, 2013)

Look guys I have read studies as well. I've read yes they do and no they don't. I called some folks that actually make saugeye and they said no. There is mass confusion on this topic. There are contradictions everywhere. I'm done with this "let's put him in his place" crap


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

jkf11j said:


> Look guys I have read studies as well. I've read yes they do and no they don't. I called some folks that actually make saugeye and they said no. There is mass confusion on this topic. There are contradictions everywhere. I'm done with this "let's put him in his place" crap


I'm not putting anyone in their place...I love to learn and try to help whenever possible, if someone else brings more to the discussion, that's just more work I don't have to do!

Lundy, that's an old study...find something more recent.....maybe "techniques" or studies are different now!


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

This is nothing to do with put him in his place and very much about there is no black and white definitive answer to the original question. You can't say no because it is not 100% true and you can't say yes because it is one great big qualified yes

All of the biologists I have spoken to about this don't use absolutes in their answers, They do use generalities and one of them is that saugeye do not reproduce, That is a good accurate statement, but that does not mean that 100% do not reproduce, Stastically it may be factual but it is not 0%, nor will they ever say that. Saugeyes are and were a natural occurring crossbreed in nature long before the ODNR took the program nationally to where it is today

Can saugeye reproduce, yes, but not at any predictable or significant level

Can saugeye cross breed with Sauger, yes, but not at a significant level, but apparently higher than saugeye with saugeye.

Can saugeye spawn with walleye, yes, but not at a significant level., but apparently a higher success than saugeye with saugeye and enough to be concerned with gene pool concerns in walleye brood lakes.

So if the question is can saugeye reproduce at a level to be self sustaining the answer is a very easy no.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Lundy said:


> This is nothing to do with put him in his place and very much about there is no black and white definitive answer to the original question. You can't say no because it is not 100% true and you can't say yes because it is one great big qualified yes
> 
> All of the biologists I have spoken to about this don't use absolutes in their answers, They do use generalities and one of them is that saugeye do not reproduce, That is a good accurate statement, but that does not mean that 100% do not reproduce, Stastically it may be factual but it is not 0%, nor will they ever say that. Saugeyes are and were a natural occurring crossbreed in nature long before the ODNR took the program nationally to where it is today
> 
> ...


I always found it amazing that they can somehow reproduce....most hybrids are completely sterile or the eggs/fetus die....the genetics between the 3 must be VERY close.


----------



## jkf11j (Oct 28, 2013)

It had everything to do with it!! You copying my posts into your response means you're talking directly with me.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

jkf11j said:


> It had everything to do with it!! You copying my posts into your response means you're talking directly with me.


I do it so people know I'm having a conversation with them...no disrespect meant at all!
Guess I'll have to go back to puttin 's on everything!
I'm not a keyboard Rambo....I'm here to learn and help the few times I can.


----------



## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

Well it sounds like the OP is happy with some earlier responses. That's all I really cared about 

Now to add some coal to our cabin fire...
When it comes to genetics there are no absolutes. Walleye and Sauger belong to the same genus (Sander) so why is it so hard to accept a small amount of cross breeding in Saugeye when their parents are proven through DNA samples to have already hybridized in the wild? (pure strain Walleye with a pure strain Sauger)


----------



## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Lol is it march yet??? Good info and great reads everyone!


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Net said:


> Well it sounds like the OP is happy with some earlier responses. That's all I really cared about
> 
> Now to add some coal to our cabin fire...
> When it comes to genetics there are no absolutes. Walleye and Sauger belong to the same genus (Sander) so why is it so hard to accept a small amount of cross breeding when they are proven through DNA samples to have already hybridized in the wild? (pure strain Walleye with a pure strain Sauger)


OK...HERE GOES...and I'm joking
You guys with Mutt hybrid Walleye can keep them....we dont have any low class Sauger around our pristine waters of CJ and our Blueblood Gators....

The great thing about the CJ meetings is that THE GATOR QUEEN worked at CJ and did her Masters research and thesis on it....she has scuba dived it, and knows it as well as anyone, it works out well for us that she still cares about her "home" lake also! We can throw out ideas and she knows enough that we can discuss things and do what's best for the fishery...and Walleyes are her babies.


----------



## large6er (Sep 1, 2013)

Ok so from the info I have learned on this post, we in central Ohio (CJ Brown excluded) have the miss fortune of drawl down lakes that hamper the sustainable reproduction of walleye / sauger. so we have to stock hybrid saugeye because their growth rate is better than saugers or walleye. But only stock if there is not a natural brooding of walleye / sauger in that lake.

Is that an accurate statement or is it a little like the DNR studies, Yes and No


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

The saugeye stocking program has created a very viable fishery in a lot of lakes that can not and could not sustain a natural walleye fishery.

When I was a young man fishing central Ohio the lakes I fished were Hoover, and Deer Creek. Both had walleye at that time, Hoover had a bunch of nice walleye. We caught the walleye in Hoover drifting June bug spinners with nightcrawlers and in deer creek by injecting a nightcrawler with a syringe and puting a single split shot 10-12" up the line

Then they built Alum Creek and it was stocked with walleye and had a decent spawning population for quite a few years. I remember going on the rocks at the dam in the middle of the night in early spring and having walleye rolling all along the rocks. I went there, seldom anyone there, because it was elbow to elbow on the rocks at Hoover with everyone trying to catch the big spawning walleye at night.

I don't think there were any walleye in Buckeye or Indian ever, but don't really know for sure.

It is my understanding that saugeye were easier (cost less) to raise than walleye, had better survival, grew faster and adapted to lakes that walleye previously had not done well.

I think the saugeye program is one of the shining stars for the ODNR. It has become extremely popular put and take fishery and has provided fishing opportunities that the walleye could not.

That's they way I remember it anyway.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

large6er said:


> Ok so from the info I have learned on this post, we in central Ohio (CJ Brown excluded) have the miss fortune of drawl down lakes that hamper the sustainable reproduction of walleye / sauger. so we have to stock hybrid saugeye because their growth rate is better than saugers or walleye. But only stock if there is not a natural brooding of walleye / sauger in that lake.
> 
> Is that an accurate statement or is it a little like the DNR studies, Yes and No



Yes except you need to Include CJ....the Gators can only get to the creek if the COE can't release water due to flood conditions and it reaches Summer pool or more early in March....They normally don't let CJ fill until April 1st and normally it takes most of the Month....then it's too late anyway.
I believe that if they would raise lake levels earlier the Walleye would spawn in the creeks like WB....but no way in heck will the COE take that chance!


----------



## fishslim (Apr 28, 2005)

Kim Indian was a walleye lake before then Saugeyes were introduced,or as mentioned Mutt Hybrid Walleye. All i know is i fished walleyes in many of the central Ohio lakes and when Saugeyes were introduced i became a mutt hybrid lover. So i will take all of them the lakes will let me catch. Totally different challenge then a inland walleye. Thank you ODNR are lakes and rivers are giving Ohio anglers a fishery that has exploded in leaps and bounds. Man i love those MUTTS


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

fishslim said:


> Kim Indian was a walleye lake before then Saugeyes were introduced,or as mentioned Mutt Hybrid Walleye. All i know is i fished walleyes in many of the central Ohio lakes and when Saugeyes were introduced i became a mutt hybrid lover. So i will take all of them the lakes will let me catch. Totally different challenge then a inland walleye. Thank you ODNR are lakes and rivers are giving Ohio anglers a fishery that has exploded in leaps and bounds. Man i love those MUTTS


I know....I'm snooty....I like Pure Bloods and live in Springtucky!


----------



## large6er (Sep 1, 2013)

Intimidator, your point about the the eyes being able to run up the creeks is why I orginally posted the question. When you are trying to learn technics to chase the eyes you watch Al Linder and a few others and they tell you to grab your cranks and jigs and run up the creeks and streams during the spawn. And I always wondered how we were going to run up the creeks when there wasn't any water, other than a trickel. 

I know we have places like Griggs and Oshay that are river fed and supported. But I know when I'm duck hunting the local lakes and you see how far the lakes drop they just can't be productive for spawning. So now I have to figure a new way to chase the elusive bug eyed taste fish, because Al hasn't made a show to tackle that issue


----------



## saugmon (Jun 14, 2006)

fishslim said:


> Kim Indian was a walleye lake before then Saugeyes were introduced,or as mentioned Mutt Hybrid Walleye. All i know is i fished walleyes in many of the central Ohio lakes and when Saugeyes were introduced i became a mutt hybrid lover. So i will take all of them the lakes will let me catch. Totally different challenge then a inland walleye. Thank you ODNR are lakes and rivers are giving Ohio anglers a fishery that has exploded in leaps and bounds. Man i love those MUTTS


I'll take those mutts as well slim. I grew up at the lake. In the late 70's -early 80's,we wouldn't catch anything but dink channelcats.We ended up at the river or creeks to catch anything decent.The fishing was terrible.

Walleye were in there but the few people that I knew that caught them,did their fishing at night,along the rock banks.

Now after the stockings,Indian is one of the finest saugeye lakes in the country.They really turned the lake around and thrive in the shallow muddy stumpy lake.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

saugmon said:


> I'll take those mutts as well slim. I grew up at the lake. In the late 70's -early 80's,we wouldn't catch anything but dink channelcats.We ended up at the river or creeks to catch anything decent.The fishing was terrible.
> 
> Walleye were in there but the few people that I knew that caught them,did their fishing at night,along the rock banks.
> 
> Now after the stockings,Indian is one of the finest saugeye lakes in the country.They really turned the lake around and thrive in the shallow muddy stumpy lake.


Agreed!....growing up, my parents had a cabin up there, weekends were spent at the amusement park, fishing at HH, or at the beach!

How has the water been lately? I haven't been up in many years but my buddy says ALOT of new channels are being cut and many new houses are being built and they have been seeing the first stages of it "blooming"??????
Another shallow lake that can't take Alot of nutrient load!


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

large6er said:


> Intimidator, your point about the the eyes being able to run up the creeks is why I orginally posted the question. When you are trying to learn technics to chase the eyes you watch Al Linder and a few others and they tell you to grab your cranks and jigs and run up the creeks and streams during the spawn. And I always wondered how we were going to run up the creeks when there wasn't any water, other than a trickel.
> 
> I know we have places like Griggs and Oshay that are river fed and supported. But I know when I'm duck hunting the local lakes and you see how far the lakes drop they just can't be productive for spawning. So now I have to figure a new way to chase the elusive bug eyed taste fish, because Al hasn't made a show to tackle that issue


Maybe this will help you....I start fishing CJ for Gators just after ice and the surface water temp hits 40 degrees....at that temp the Gators are moving and starting to feed heavily for the upcoming spawn. As soon as the water temps at depth reach 40, these pigs have the feed bags ON! Normally at this time the sun is out and stronger and is warming the rocks, docks, dark objects in the water, Etc, and the shad and baitfish move into those areas because they may be a couple degrees warmer. Gators will be moving in shallow to dine on all these tasty morsals and so should you! Normally my freezer is half full by this time.
They will gorge until temps at depth reach 45-48 degrees when they'll stop eating and start spawning....normally at 50 degrees they are done and they rest and heal for a couple weeks...they beat themselves up pretty badly and WILL NOT EAT til they heal.
THEN for a Month or better they will GORGE like the fat little Pigs they are, and summer patterns start. By this time my freezer is full.
Summer for Me is C&R, they will scatter and be all over the lake....look for areas of high oxygen, they NEED levels ABOVE 3ppm, current is not necessary but they like a gentle flow, I don't know, heck, it may refresh them...Think COOL oxygenated Springs also! They will mainly feed at night or cloudy days...it takes their eyes maybe an hour at dusk to adjust for night feeding,the eyes switch from color to HD Black and White...AND THEN IT'S ON! 
They will feed during the day but it has to be an easy meal for them to use up energy.
It seems smaller fish like the normal hangouts, weeds, timber, humps, creekbeds....Trophy Fish at CJ will find 1 piece of cover, boulder, stump, log, pile of rock, etc, in an open area close to hunting grounds, deep water, and shade...they will sit there on that 1 piece of cover until either food goes by or they get hungry...but they always come back. Like I said, HUGE fish have been taken in the dead of summer at high noon, in 3 ft of water, by a rock, and a stump, that were in total shade!
If water temps get into the 80's and they can't get cooler water, they will stop eating to conserve energy, they metabolize energy faster than they can take it in, so they slow way down and wait for a drop in temps from a cool rain, couple dark days, etc. 
Once the Water temps start dropping for Fall, the Feedbags are ON again and they start pigging for Winter.
Those are some basics, maybe others can add things for your area!
Good Fishin'
Brent


----------



## Skippy (Dec 2, 2009)

I don't know about the eyes not eating right after they spawn as every year I catch a fair number with raw and rubbed bellies. Most at night and at times you can shine a light and see fish still up and going thru there spawning thing. This is for both walleyes and saugeyes.


----------



## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

Since we have these saugeyes in our draw down lakes, would they swim up stream out of the lake early spring before the water level starts to rise ? . I know they start filling Deer Creek April 1st, I have heard of guys catching a nice one now and then when they were checking the channel real early for the white bass, but the water is still pretty low at that time unless we get a hard rain. I was just wondering if it might be worth a night trip when the water is low.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Skippy said:


> I don't know about the eyes not eating right after they spawn as every year I catch a fair number with raw and rubbed bellies. Most at night and at times you can shine a light and see fish still up and going thru there spawning thing. This is for both walleyes and saugeyes.


No Problem, Thanks....That was just general info from CJ...as we all know, Mother Nature can throw a curveball at any time...he has to take General info and then build in his lake or other specifics, to try and set up a pattern!

It's really interesting to me to hear other peoples experiences, then if you run into a similar situation, it might help everyone.
This is pretty much what all the guys on the CJ thread do...and it really helps everyone!


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

glasseyes said:


> Since we have these saugeyes in our draw down lakes, would they swim up stream out of the lake early spring before the water level starts to rise ? . I know they start filling Deer Creek April 1st, I have heard of guys catching a nice one now and then when they were checking the channel real early for the white bass, but the water is still pretty low at that time unless we get a hard rain. I was just wondering if it might be worth a night trip when the water is low.


Again, I can only speak to CJ....but yes, Walleye have been caught at the Mouth waiting to get up the creek, and they have been caught in the creek just as soon as they can get into it!
But, after spawn time is over...IN GENERAL, they don't want anything to do with that area!


----------



## jkf11j (Oct 28, 2013)

What is CJ?


----------



## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

How early, or what water temps. do they start heading up ?


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

glasseyes said:


> How early, or what water temps. do they start heading up ?


Normally at their spawning temps AROUND 45-48 degrees...that's why I start fishing at 40 degrees so I know what's going on with the water and weather.
The Main lake may only be 40 degrees, but if you get a Nice warmup and ALOT of rain the creek will heat up faster and you have to be prepared for them to move!


----------



## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

thanks for the info, I may keep an eye on Deer Creek this early spring.


----------



## senoy (Feb 3, 2013)

To answer the original question, all three will interbreed. A study done by Southern Illinois University found that it's actually incredibly difficult to tell the species apart, especially when they are young. It found that 4.1% of all fish were natural hybrids and roughly half of those were 2nd generation hybrids. What is interesting is that they used a panel of people with years of experience dealing with walleye, sauger and saugeye to visually identify the species and 70% of the time when they said it was a saugeye, it was actually a sauger. What's even more interesint is that twice they caught what they thought was a walleye and it turned out to be a sauger. Anyway, the point is that they naturally interbreed, but it's relatively rare. It is completely possible though to have a naturally reproducing saugeye population.


----------



## saugmon (Jun 14, 2006)

glasseyes said:


> Since we have these saugeyes in our draw down lakes, would they swim up stream out of the lake early spring before the water level starts to rise ? . I know they start filling Deer Creek April 1st, I have heard of guys catching a nice one now and then when they were checking the channel real early for the white bass, but the water is still pretty low at that time unless we get a hard rain. I was just wondering if it might be worth a night trip when the water is low.


There's 2 different broods of saugeye. The majority brood has a slim chance to crossbreed.This is why lots of figuring goes into stocking saugeye in certain lakes. Take Grand Lake st marys.They stocked saugeye in Grand a few years ago around 2009/2010 and a lot of people made a ruccus about it because it was the start of the algae bloom along with poor hatches that meant most lakes got 1/2 the normal saugeye fry/fingerlings,and some didn't get any.Looking at a map,water from Grand leads to the maumee.I don't know how easy it would be for a fish to make that trip,but if you look at a map,East side of grand leads to mendon/rockford/ and into the Maumee at Ft Wayne Indiana.This stocking was with a special brood.From the info that fellow OGF'r Fishmounter's son,who happens to work at the hatchery at Grand, he told me the saugeye go through a special process to kill off the chance of being fertile.The brood that were thrown in Grand in that 1 stocking were passed through that process twice. I don't know the specifics of that sterilization process,but the saugeyes at Grand Lake have 0 chance of reproducing and/or crossbreeding. Those Grand saugeyes should be well keeper sized now.




Intimidator said:


> Agreed!....growing up, my parents had a cabin up there, weekends were spent at the amusement park, fishing at HH, or at the beach!
> 
> How has the water been lately? I haven't been up in many years but my buddy says ALOT of new channels are being cut and many new houses are being built and they have been seeing the first stages of it "blooming"??????
> Another shallow lake that can't take Alot of nutrient load!


Amusement park? Man you must be old, LOL!

I talked to a buddy at work as said there was 10+" of ice and should thicken up even more this week and weekend.

I'll disagree on the blooming """". Lake's clearing up and weeding up.Rumor initially was eurasian watermillfoil but most likely american watermilfoil.Fortunantly we get some good storms in april and they help muddy up the water to halt the weed growth. A couple 3 years ago we didn't have a stormy spring,water cleared up, and made trolling impossible from mid june and on. Less than 1' clarity is perfect.Anything better than that,the weed will take over.The main road circling the lake along with the wetlands and grass strips in front of most fields help keep the nasty ingredients out of the lake,unlike Grand.


----------



## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

Lewis said:


> I fished with Corey for several years. Tournaments and pleasure fishing.
> I swear it was like going to Saugeye College each time. The man was brilliant!


I'll second that. I've never met anyone that knowledgeable and yet so willing to share his wisdom. The man could catch fish in a bird bath. He is truly missed.


----------



## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Dang guys awsome read!!!! Lundy im pretty sure buckeye had walleye as well. My uncle has pics f 7/8 lb fish just 2/3 yrs after buckeyes initial stockings(dont remember yrs off hand). And have had my share of old timers talk about the walleyes back in the day...

Also had a few guys tell me white bass were stacked in buckeye as well. But you would think they would have sustained some sort of populatuon? Heard they would run all the way up 37 or 36 what ever it is,and guys would line the creek slaying them causing traffic problems... anyone know?


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Saugeyefisher said:


> Dang guys awsome read!!!! Lundy im pretty sure buckeye had walleye as well. My uncle has pics f 7/8 lb fish just 2/3 yrs after buckeyes initial stockings(dont remember yrs off hand). And have had my share of old timers talk about the walleyes back in the day...


Yeah, I had no idea about Buckeye or Indian. When I was young it felt like those were in another country as far away as they were

I do remember reading a whole lot of years ago in the Sunday Dispatch in the sports section about guys ice fishing Indian lake and catching crappie in 2-3 ft of water. That just seemed so crazy to me that you could catch fish through the ice in that shallow of water.

Does anyone else remember always reading the Dispatch on Sunday to get the outdoors reports. This was before Internet and it was the only way to get any fishing and outdoors information. My have times have changed


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Lundy said:


> Yeah, I had no idea about Buckeye or Indian. When I was young it felt like those were in another country as far away as they were
> 
> I do remember reading a whole lot of years ago in the Sunday Dispatch in the sports section about guys ice fishing Indian lake and catching crappie in 2-3 ft of water. That just seemed so crazy to me that you could catch fish through the ice in that shallow of water.
> 
> Does anyone else remember always reading the Dispatch on Sunday to get the outdoors reports. This was before Internet and it was the only way to get any fishing and outdoors information. My have times have changed


Yep....53 here....used to check the dispatch for Madison and Deercreek since I lived in South Charleston and was close to London....checked Dayton Daily and News Sun for this area around Springfield.


----------



## percidaeben (Jan 15, 2010)

Yep,Tom Porch was the dispatch outdoor writer. Always had good information on fishing and hunting. Really good guy. And I used to get Ohio Fisherman from 1977 to about 1990. Dad would suscribe me for Christmas starting when I was 10. I can remember reading articles and seeing pictures on Buckeye the manly talked about the walleye and Muskie fishing there.


----------



## fishslim (Apr 28, 2005)

Yep Dispatch every Sunday get the scoop. Used to run into Tom Porch every now and then while out fishing. Did a great job. Kim used to see the Walleye roll along the rocks at Indian like at Hoover or Alum. Was a couple week time frame to get some trophy eyes along the shores. Used to throw Traps at them and big floating Rapalas. along with buck tail jigs.


----------



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

percidaeben said:


> . And I used to get Ohio Fisherman from 1977 to about 1990. Dad would suscribe me for Christmas starting when I was 10.


Wow does that bring back old nearly forgotten memories. I was on the cover of one of those publications with a bass, 6-3/4 lbs, way back when. I still have a couple of copies somewhere, now you have me wanting to go back and see what year and month that was. I know I caught that bass in mid March of some year a long time ago


----------



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

saugmon.......you're right on that saugeye were stocked at GLSM in both 2009 and 2010. 2009 was only 23,000 fingerlings while it was 220-230,000 in 2010. They were diploid fingerlings, run thru the sterilization process twice just as you said. It marked the reversal of a long standing ODNR policy against stocking saugeye in GLSM since GLSM's outflow is within the Lake Erie watershed. Like you said outflow from GLSM does make it to Maumee River and Lake Erie. State maintained we'd never get saugeye at GLSM for fear of screwing up the gene pool of Lake Erie walleye. The super sterile saugeye stocking ceased after the summer of 2010 when a different algae strain made GLSM the poster boy for agricultural pollution. 

Last winter the ice guys at GLSM were euphoric reaping the benefit of those saugeye stockings. 18-22" saugeye were reported. The State requested fish carcasses to identify whether the fish were walleye or saugeye. For those who don't know walleye were stocked in GLSM for nearly a decade from the mid-90's thru mid-2000's. Low numbers of those walleye are still caught occasionally (a 9.6 pound walleye 2 years ago). Although I never did see an official report about the carcasses from last year's saugeye/walleye bonanza, rumors were few if any of the fish were walleye.

After the saugeye bonanza last winter proved the amazing success of GLSM saugeye, locals were pressing for stocking to resume. I called the DNR and they said "it will never happen". The DNR person I talked to first denied saugeye were ever stocked at GLSM. 2nd time around they said it was because sterilization process for GLSM fingerlings was too expensive. 

Too bad GLSM can't enjoy the wonderful saugeye gift others do around the state. I'm envious! Clearly the saugeye did well in GLSM and quickly sparked the fishing.


----------

