# St.Marys warnings again!



## iam20fan (Jan 15, 2006)

http://www.whiotv.com/news/27954886/detail.html

this just messed up memorial day weekend plans for alot of people


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## triton189 (Nov 6, 2009)

That is a shame...! I know people that were up there this spring crappie fishing keeping the big ones. There is no way I would eat anything out of there.


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm hearing from the association up there that whio may have added more to the story. I haven't seen anything posted on the OEPA website issuing any warnings yet.


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## I_Shock_Em (Jul 20, 2008)

Is it really that big of a surprise? GLSM has been having this issue for years now, it's not like it is going to just go away


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

On the contrary; dredging (deepening) the lake WILL solve a great DEAL of the lake`s recurring problems by A: removing 100 yrs worth of phosphate build up that is `stored` in the lake`s sediments B: putting some distance (depth) between the lake`s sediment bottom and the high thrust modern boat proppellers that at 3- 5 fow just blows TONS of the phosphate enriched sediment back into suspension, actually blowing grooves in the muck and C: allowing enough depth so storm winds can`t also "lift" that same sediment off the bottom. Alum is intended to try to hold the ALGAE in check; it DOES NOT remove the CAUSE. Dredging down 10- 15` DOES solve ALL these problems...plus it will create a better fishery. DREDGE, baby, DREDGE !!


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## trailbreaker (Oct 11, 2008)

just when you thought it was safe to go to the water


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## trailbreaker (Oct 11, 2008)

http://www.ohiodnr.com/home_page/Ne...-Lake-St-Marys-Urged-to-Exercise-Caution.aspx


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## trailbreaker (Oct 11, 2008)

backlashed said:


> I'm hearing from the association up there that whio may have added more to the story. I haven't seen anything posted on the OEPA website issuing any warnings yet.



http://www.epa.ohio.gov/dsw/HAB.aspx


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

trailbreaker said:


> http://www.epa.ohio.gov/dsw/HAB.aspx


LOL, an advisory for swimmers at the beaches. I really loved this leftover bit towards the bottom of the page. 

"Not surprisingly, given that this summer has been hot with many sunny days, blue-green algae has grown at a number of waterbodies throughout the state."


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## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

State reports this "bloom" isn't the same nasty, toxin producer of 2010, but any bloom turns the guts of locals. I arrived at GLSM Friday evening and south side channels without water movement showed patches of a top-water filmy scum. Back ends of channels and boat ramps showed the most. By Saturday AM those areas were cleared, at least in my channel. Water is definitely cloudy green with plenty of particulates in it. This is extremely early for blooms of any variety, and surprising since water temps were in the 64-68 range. Not a good omen.......


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## triton189 (Nov 6, 2009)

zaraspook said:


> State reports this "bloom" isn't the same nasty, toxin producer of 2010, but any bloom turns the guts of locals. I arrived at GLSM Friday evening and south side channels without water movement showed patches of a top-water filmy scum. Back ends of channels and boat ramps showed the most. By Saturday AM those areas were cleared, at least in my channel. Water is definitely cloudy green with plenty of particulates in it. This is extremely early for blooms of any variety, and surprising since water temps were in the 64-68 range. Not a good omen.......


I agree! This is not a good sign if the water is this cool and we are already having blooms. Wait to till the water temps are in the high 70's. With the amount of rain we have had this could be the knock out blow for the fish in this lake. Especially, if we have a hot summer! Why won't they address the "root cause" of the problem...!


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## UFM82 (Apr 6, 2004)

Is that even possible in today's world? That's over 21 square miles! I can't even imagine the scope of that process or how long it would take... But I sure would love having a decent size lake in this state with some deep water. I say DREDGE as well! Maybe we can haul it all to Cleveland and bury that dump!!! LOL 

UFM82


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Triton, the politically agreed "grace ( read `pollute the lake as much as you WANT with no legal penalty`) period hasn`t expired yet. Am not a person whom `agrees` ANY industry industrial or agricultural has the God given right to deprive others of the SAFE use of a State Park they selfishly want to use forever if possible as a sewer for their excess livestock `by products` but the `powers that be` (for NOW) felt it was in their personal `interest` to allow this to continue for `awhile longer`...the MAJOR problem with the lake is it is TOO shallow with 100+ yrs of phosphate build up in the 3- ?` of sediment; if the farms ALL shut down tommorow, next yr the same types of blooms would STILL occur, just like dandilions on an untreated lawn. The ONLY LONG TERM solution is to add depth to the lake to A- remove as much phosphate enriched algea food as humanly possible (starve it of excessive amounts of food), B- allow what remains of it to settle deep enough that wind/ wave action AND boat propellers can`t lift it back into suspension where the algea can consume it. C- adding depth helps cool the lake, which can dramatically slow the "blooms", particularly in the spring and early summer months; HOPEFULLY those dredges are roaring 24/ 7 till ice up...


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## catmando (Aug 21, 2006)

Fighting with nature is like giving your checkbook to a politician! The best thing for the lake would be to 1) stop the runnoff from the farms. 2) Let nature take its course and turn the place into a big marsh and whats left will be the lake. 3) Get the big boats off the lake.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Interesting you mentioned that; the area USED to be called the Great Dismal Swamp, and covered twice the area the current lake does. After the success of the Erie Canal in New York, various persons saw it`s potential as a reservoir for the then future canals in western Ohio. It was dug out by immigrant and then convict labor; the area was malarial, and unfortunately, thousands died clearing and building it...for a time the state offered 2 yrs "credited" for every yr a convict worked there; most didn`t last 6 months...ironically, when 1st built, the majority of the lake was close to 8` deep...now we have the results of 150+ yrs of sediments to undo...


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## ARNfishin (Apr 22, 2011)

It seems to me that removing all of the sediment would be a lot easier if the lake wasnt filled with water. You could do it with big front end loaders instead of floating dredging machines. 
Now this is a wildly uneducated suggestion and probably isnt feasible but why not drain the lake, remove all of the sediment back to 8-10' deep and then hold the farmers to the regulations that are being established? Dont allow people to boat on the lake for a year. Wait until the lake is frozen and there is little movement on the water so the phosphate can settle as much as possible. If you dont have any outlets in the spillway, bore a hole so the bottom of the lake will drain(this will obviously affect the stream/river below the spillway negatively). Net as many of the game fish as possible and relocate them. Then, once you have a dry lake bed, move in your front end loaders and dump trucks and go to town! Test the soil and find how deep down you have to dig or contact an environmental company that does soil remediation.
When it comes to disposing of the sediment, dump it on all of the farms that generated it and say "Thanks, but we dont want it anymore." 
This would take many years but seems like the only surefire way to remediate the lake.
Criticism welcome and expected.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Won`t say wouldn`t work; actually had heard somewhere there was a suggestion to build a water resistant dike N to S and do exactly that...probabily deemed too expensive AND by further reducing the lake depth would be my guess it might get a little "maloderous' down wind...the IRONIC thing is once the "muck' (sediment) dries out so it`s economical to move, it is some of the richest, most nutritous fertilizer known to man, PLUS it`s VERY rich in phosphates to begin with, turning a nasty liability into a potential financial windfall IF you can dry it out (and not run the neighbors out...); all but guarentee there are farmers who would haul at least some of it off for their fields. With adequate buffer strips along the fields to prevent excess "run off' would be a WIN/ WIN situation...just my 2 cents.


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## ARNfishin (Apr 22, 2011)

Well, glad I wasnt way off base then. I read the whole tetra-tech recommendation report after I wrote that. Sounds like major dosings of Alum is what they are leaning towards. Guess I dont know enough about it but I have been around soil remediation projects and it seems to me that it would be much more beneficial to treat the lake when dry. Take a vote amongst residents as far as what they want to do. If they are willing to put up with a horrific odor for a year with a chance of the lake returning to better than it has been in decades, they may be all for it. And if the sediment is as rich as you say it is you may cover the cost of the project and benefit the farmers who opposed the new regulations imposed on them. Sounds like a win/win to me too. But I am no engineer/environmentalist.


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## killingtime (Apr 29, 2009)

the trucks would be tougher to move the mataerial because you would have to dig down far enough to have a solid base to run on. with the dredge they can get to the right depth quicker and easier. to have a solid base for the equipment to run on you may have to dig down 20 or 30 feet and with the dredge you can get the right depth without disturbing the material that is under where the algae problem is. the dredge can run 24/7 through rainy weather and with machinery you would be shut down alot due to the wet seasons.


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## dmoe (Jun 4, 2010)

A key to the dredging is that they need to run 24/7. Does anyone know how many hours a week they are running?


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## AndOne (Apr 18, 2011)

killingtime said:


> the trucks would be tougher to move the mataerial because you would have to dig down far enough to have a solid base to run on. with the dredge they can get to the right depth quicker and easier. to have a solid base for the equipment to run on you may have to dig down 20 or 30 feet and with the dredge you can get the right depth without disturbing the material that is under where the algae problem is. the dredge can run 24/7 through rainy weather and with machinery you would be shut down alot due to the wet seasons.




20 to 30 feet...sounds good to me


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

30 feet? Even in 2 or 3 spots, would have a PROFOUND good effect on the lake! Even 1, especially if they hit a spring...the nearest bait shop would get $$$ RICH...


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## killingtime (Apr 29, 2009)

20-30 feet was just a guess you may have to go deeper or it may be a little shallower. there is years and years of sediment on the bottom of that lake. it would be nice if someone had some old photos of when they were building it. i hope they get the problem fixed that lake was a blast to grow up on and has all the potential to be one of the best lakes to fish.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Am not sure exactly when it was finished, but know it was pre 1840, before photography. Wrote a high school history report on the Ohio canal and lock system and supporting reservoirs, the largest of which was GLSM. The railroads replaced it by the 1850`s, and it gradually was abandoned and silted in. Am sure there WERE drawings/ charts, but not sure whom would have them; perhaps the local county Engineers? DO know from reading in 9 yrs of excavation and construction 6 project managers also died of malaria/ fever and literally thousands of immigrant workers and later convicts. It was the "Panama Canal" of it`s day; which also cost many thousands of lives due to the exact same reason- malaria, strangely enough...weird, being so far North.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

The Alum will bind up the phosphates and sink them to the bottom. Treating spots here and there isn't going to cut it. I posted a tutorial on alum in the pond management section a few years ago. Ideally, the entire surface should be sprayed, uniformally, in one continuous operation. Alum immediately begins binding solids in the water (floc) that settles within a few to several hours. The settled floc then compresses into a thin layer on the bottom over time and the solids including the phosphates remain bound and it is more difficult for particles to become suspended or resuspended in the treated water. The problem with St. Mary's is simply the size of the area to be treated. Outside of the cost, making 1 uniform treatment in a reasonable amount of time is the biggest obstacle. 

There are alum injection systems that could be used at major runoff sources to reduce nutrients as they come in. These systems could be used in conjuction with spray treatment of the lake...but the lake treatment should be performed with a fleet of spray/injection vessels over a few days...not months. Once treated the injection of incoming major water sources should continue until their nutrient loads are reduced. Continue dredging and removal of sediments and create deep holes for nutrient sinks.

Results from an alum application are definite and immediate when performed properly. However, it's purpose would be to expedite recovery of the lake in conjuction with reducing the nutrient loading at the source.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Agree totally, sir, and well said.


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## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

Saturday 28th considerably more film/scum in areas of little or no water movement.  Algae or whatever it is getting organized, larger patches, and in some area taking on some color. Water temp is 67-68 degrees. Don't like the looks of way this has advanced in just a few days. Lake did take on good amount of water this week from rain and runoff. It could really takeoff with sun and quick increase in water temp like is forecast for holiday period.


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## Guest (May 28, 2011)

i thought i read where the state park was offering sites (cabins?) at 50% off. that is pretty sick, imo. first, drilling in the state parks and then enticing people to visit polluted parks. scary.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

With the budgets for even minimum (necessary to stay open) Maint projects being repeatedly slashed or postponed, let alone funds for Park workers (many Parks are currently below minumum staffing levels) would believe 1 of 4 options are realistically available-#1 Raise taxes to better fund our Park system #2 Charge admission fees to enter (and use) said Parks either per visit or annually, just like King`s Island or Cedar Point #3 find an alternative source of income to help fund the Parks or #4 start closing various State Parks and redesignate them as Nature Preserves. There are several states that do allow limited VERTICAL drilling in some of their state Parks; "fracking" am not so sure of. Point is MORE budget cuts are coming, not less. We can close our eyes and just HOPE for the best, but isn`t that what MANY people around GLSM`s DID do several decades ago and this is where the `hope someone else foots the bill and takes care of our problem for us for FREE` approach left them, literally. Maybe some one will win the Mega Millions and donate it to fix GLSM. The oil companies wouldn`t be my 1st choice, but who else can you think of?


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## Guest (May 29, 2011)

bingo, bake sales, car washes, etc.......lol

maybe day use passes like some states have started. to me, state parks always paralleled wise use of natural resources and nature. drilling, especially marcellus shale extractions are proving to be quiet risky. also, the last thing i want to see when i am off road, hunting, fishing or even hiking, is a well. also, if the state can give subsidies and incentives to businesses, they should somehow maintain the status quo on current expenditures in state parks.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Okay, you`ve convinced me; that`s the easy part...


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## trailbreaker (Oct 11, 2008)

rapman you forgot yardsale


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## Spence88 (Feb 23, 2006)

Crappies are hitting pretty good around the lake. Below the spillway proved good. A few keepers and a lot of 6-7". Water is ugly but that's a given.


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