# Why feed trained largemouth are better



## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Here's a bass I stocked in the fall of 2003. It was about 4" long. It's a good example how farm raised feed trained bass will outperform wild caught transplanted fish, at least when supplemental feeding.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

Nice fish!!! How long are they now and approximate weight. 

I put 50 in my pond (1/2 acre) this spring that were 4 to 6 inches. They look to be about 7 to 9 inches now. When I walk around the pond and throw feed,some would follow me. At first I thought they were eating the food I was throwing. But after closer watching, they were eating the minnows I was scaring off the edge of the pond. Don't know how many are eating pellets but I hope some of them are.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

my uncle built a pond and stocked it with bass, gills and 4 cats. cats are about 3 feet, gills are like small dinner plates and the bass are an easy 14 to 18 inches. he feed them pellets and just like you said, they follow him as he walks around it. real feeding frenzy and its pretty neet. good thing he lives out in the country, that pond would be no problem for some kids to fish out quickly.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Hangloose, I didn't weigh or measure the one in the photo. I haven't had much time to fish the past several weeks but I caught a couple in July that were 13 1/2" and weighted 1lbs 8oz and another that was 15 1/2" and weighted 2lbs 6oz. This one was around 15", I hate to speculate on the weight.

I observed the same as you early on. Some of the bass would take pellets readily while other just wouldn't. It will be obvious in a couple of years which ones are eating pellets and which are not. IMO, you overstocked by 25 bass if your trying to grow big ones but it shouldn't hurt anything until they get over a pound. At that time you can start removing the ones that aren't perfoming well.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

When you said that I overstocked by 25, I thought maybe my numbers were off. So I got my receipts out and there are 50 but 3 to 4 inches. I'm going to go out this evening and try to catch some just to see how big they really are.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Hang loose, you should be fine until they reach 1 lb. even a little bigger since you're feeding as long as they don't reproduce much and you actively remove their offspring. I've seen many resources recommend 100 per acre, a kind of rule of thumb. You're right at that. My opinion was based on another rule of thumb that a pond can support 100lbs of bass per acre, 50lbs in the case of your 1/2 acre pond. That rule of thumb is based on an unfed pond with a healthy population of bluegill as forage. Once you add feed to the equation, your limits are pretty much water quality and your pocketbook. Personally I'd rather have ten 5lb fish opposed to fifty 1lb fish even though I've had a great deal of fun catching 1lb fish till my arm was ready to fall off.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

I'de recommend 100 per acre for your typical "farm pond." Your typical pond owner is looking for quality fishing and quality for most fisherman is quanity over quality. As pondfin already pointed out simply remove some of the fish that are showing poor growth if you're genuinley interested in growing larger fish over numerous fish. Not only is it true on paper but in the field. I know many pond owner's that simply cull out smaller fish when they're caught. One pond I fish, 2lb or smaller you take it home to eat or the racoons get a freebie.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

I'm simply removing any bass that aren't eating feed. It's pretty obvious, really fat ones get released and thin ones become fillets or fertilizer. It's amazing how much bass will reproduce. The biggest problem with this approach is that well fed bass aren't real easy to catch but more rewarding when you do get one.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

Well my son had some friends over to swim after school and they muddied the water up a little bit. I decided to fish after they left anyway. I caught 4 in about a hour. 2 bluegills (6 1/2 inches), a redear I think (7 inches) and an 8 inch bass. One thing that impressed me was how fat they were. I can see how good the feed is working.

Just wondering how late into the year you feed them and do you feed them year after year? Not that I mind. I like taking a couple beers out and watching them come up and eat while I'm sitting on the dock.

Thanks


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

Make sure ya stop feeding when water temps dip below 60 degrees this fall and resume when it raises above 60. Most people I know do this and have never had problems. Another easy way to remember is generally around Easter you can start feeding and around Halloween you should stop.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Fishman gave good advice. I just stop feeding when the fish stop eating. In the spring, the magic number seems to be 56 degrees.

Hangloose, I'm guessing your forage base will be in really good shape for the next year or so with the numbers you stocked and you'll likely see some fantastic growth. The 3rd and fourth years is where things can start to go downhill and it's better to take some proactive measures to keep them growing well as opposed to reacting once a problem develops. I did the later, wishing I had been more proactive.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

Fishman, thats almost as easy as ''Spring forward and fall back''. Also I'm taking it that you can keep feeding pellets year after year to grow them bigger and keep them healthier.

[email protected], should I take out some of the thinner bass out next year or the year after?

ezbite, when I casted my line out the other night, as soon as it hit the water, I could see 3 or 4 V's coming right towards the bobber. That was when I caught the only bass.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> In the spring, the magic number seems to be 56 degrees.


Funny ya say that, if memory serves me correctly the textbooks I own say 55 so you're number is basically on the nose. I've always just said 60 to be on the safe side, hell hath no fury like an angry pond owner 


Hang_Loose, yes, you should feed year after year if you can. Not all of your fish require extremly high protein diets but your best off going with the highest you can find if you can afford it.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

Fishman, I don't know how your post got ahead of mine because I didnt see it there before my last post.

Anyway, Thanks for the info.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

One other question, I put about 15 pounds of FH minnows in last week before the wind storm hit. Do you think thats enough for the winter? Its a half acre pond with about 50 bass+,50 perch+, 7 walleye, 9 CC and 200 ''gills''. My pallet stacks should be about 12 to 18 inches under water when the pond is full. Thanks


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Hangloose, I'm not a big fan of buying fatheads for ponds with established predators. They're just too slow and are eaten too quickly to reproduce perpetually. 

Consider this: It takes roughly 10 lbs. of baitfish to grow a predator 1 lb so worse case by buying 15lbs. of minnows for over 100 predators, you've added 1.5 lbs. to them collectively or 1/4 ounce to each fish costing roughly $100. 3 pounds of high protein feed will get you the same amount of growth for around $2.50. 

Fall stocking of fatheads make little sense to me. They will spawn when water temps are over 60 deg.F (maybe as low as 55 deg.F ??) so you may get a spawn or two out of them yet this year and they better get busy because I doubt they old out longer than 30 days with as many hungry mouths as you have to feed. I

f I was going to spend that much money on fatheads, Spring stocking would be more logical...giving them all summer to try to keep up with predation.

This is exactly why feed trained bass are better (or at least cheaper)

If you're fish are healthy now, they'll overwinter fine on their fat reserves. Surely your bluegills have spawned and the young of year will provide a few winter snacks. Fish's metabolism slows waaayy down in cold water and they don't need much.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

I am in the same boat, stocked fatheads and Golden Shiners this Spring and had several spawns from at what appears to be both of them. I did think about stocking a few more for the wintering fish but figured they will put a hurting on them and will wait until Spring to restock them. 

I should be getting my Hybrid Stripers ( 5-6" ) and some replacement Black Crappies ( 4-6" ) in the next week or so and figure they will definately put a hurting on the minnows before they shut down for winter. I am pretty sure I will stock some feeder FH's next fall though, just depends if I still have any minners left by then. By that time Crappies and Perch should be 8-10". Channels will be pushing 2 lbs, Blues at the rate they are growing will be 3-4 lbs and the Hybrids will probably be in the 10-12" range so everything will be not big enough to eat the gills but too big for tiny fish so I figure it will be a good time to put some feeders in before the fall. ( after feeding stops) 

Does that make sense?? 

I dont think any of my gills spawned this year but next year should be a banner year for them. I have been waiting to net any fish to verify growth and healthiness until colder water so recovery/stress is minimized.

BTW#, the pond now has at least 6 large Goldfish in it???? 4-6" I will try to catch them but hey feed right in the middle of the large pack of cats and are quite jittery, if I threw a cast net, Id have 70 3/4 lb cats in it....... any other ways to get them out?

Salmonid


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

Fatheads and shiners are intended to be fed suplimentally. A big old shiner is better for a bass than a handfull of fish chow. Fall's here, winter isn't far off and it's important for all the fish to pack on a little extra weight for the winter, a very frequent time to have die off of senior fish for various reasons. If your going to do it twice annually spring and fall is ideal, if you're only going to do it once do it in the spring. 

One thing I've noticed a few pond owners do is fence off an area of the pond, baitfish are dumb as a box of rocks and having been cultured in a way they were never exposed to predators only exasterbates it.... anyways put some rocks and pallets and junk it in and try to release the baitfish in those areas.  But I've seen a few of the smart ones figure it out and stay inside the fence. Like I said I rarely see this because most people don't like the idea of having rusty chicken wire in their pond or seeing snow fence or whatever material they use.

Mark, the thought of your goldfish drives me nuts honestly! Did you see'em when they were small? They won't hurt anything but they'll probably be annoying to look at. Do ya own a BB gun?


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Fatheads have their place. I think fatheads are great for starting up a pond. They lay a lot of eggs and spawn often and you can grow a large forage base quickly as long as their are very few or no predators. They were the first thing I stocked in my pond and I had millions of them 6 months later. A year after stocking bluegills, and six months after stocking bass, they were almost non-existant.

Netting off an area just isn't practical. The netting would need a very fine mesh to keep little predators from getting in. It would also have to stick out of the water to keep fish from jumping over and it would eventually become heavily loaded with algae. 

I do think fatheads would work great if a small .15 or .2 acre pond for growing them exclusively was available nearby. A .2 acre minnow pond could produce between 35 and 100lbs of fatheads per year and they could be grown and transplanted very economically.

Bluegill, pumpkinseeds, and shiners are better choices. Shiners have an advantage that they swim faster and grow larger than fatheads. Their disadvantages are that in many ponds, they don't reproduce well and they may rob the nests of other species and they can grow to 10" competing with more desirable fish for food.

Bluegill are fairly prolific, spawning a couple times per year. They can perpetually replenish the forage base as long as the number of predators are kept reasonably in check. This is why bluegill are the forage fish of choice for ponds in their entire native range over other species. They also take feed well. Feed them two pounds of feed and you'll grow a pound of forage....again at just a fraction of the cost of buying minnows. Plus, I'd much rather eat a plate full of fried bluegills over a shiner sandwich or a fathead minnow cocktail any day. 

Buying minnows to supplementally feed your fish is the like buying your dog prime grade fillet mignon.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

The reason I put the fall fatheads in is because my spring stocking looked pretty bare. The water level is down and my pallet stacks were drying out. I moved the stacks out farther while I had a chance. This pond wasn't dug until very late last fall. I'm new at this pond owner hobby (that's what my wife calls it) and make sure that the fish make it through the winter.

I wish I had known about this site before we had the pond dug. There are some changes I would have made before the pond filled. Its not to late but it won't be as easy.

Anyways, thanks for all your info.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Here's one from last night


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## beemoth (Aug 3, 2008)

Where are you getting the feed trained bass fingerlings?
I don't need any I was just curious. A guy told me you could get feed trained perch too but I don't know where to obtain them either.
Real nice bass you got there PondFin.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Beemoth, my bass came from Freshwater Farms. They were in an outdoor metal tank all alone when I picked them up. I didn't know anything about the advantages of having feed trained fish until later but mine readily took feed since the beginning. My main point with this thread is that if given the choice, go with feed trained from the start and they'll be much more likely to stay on feed. It's much cheaper to feed the bass directly than to buy or grow forage to feed the bass. It's also nice to have the pellet option to keep them growing while repairing predator/prey imbalances.


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## Lou (Jul 23, 2005)

When I was a young kid I used to love going over to one of my dads friends house who had a neighbor with a big pond full of bass that loved to eat the grasshoppers that I would throw in.
Ah, the memories.....


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## mirrocraft mike (Mar 17, 2006)

Nice growth !!!! Very nice looking pond From what we could see 

My brother in law raised channel cats this way..Had a acre pond .Used to go out every night at the same time With a steel pot full of pellets. He would bang on the pot and yell HERE KITTY KITTY .Throw those pellets which floated for a few seconds and those cats would boil the surface. To see cats busting top water was sweet. It got to a point where he could bang on the pot and just YELL here KITTY KITTY and a few would start to surface without throwing any pellets. It was amazing to think these fish where TRAINED to the sound of his voice and a banging pot. It was very cool to watch this happen. Do fish have ears  LOL 

On a side note my nephew,his son Had a four inch Albino Catfish which was a store bought aquarium fish. He had this fish for three years.. At a pound this fish out grew three tanks.So he decided to release it in the pond..soon after we took notice of ''******''surfacing to eat pellets..Within two more years ''******'' grew to 4.5 lb.Unfortunately My brother in law sold that house and pond soon after that final catch ..We caught this fish many times over the years ..Once twice in the same day ..He just couldn't say no to LIVER.. I wonder if ''******''is still alive... This was 20 years ago....Sorry if i hi -jacked your thread a little..


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

That's a funny story. I feed out of a big bright yellow bucket and every time I carry it past the pond there are two or three bass that make a bee line to where I'm walking along shore and follow me to the dock. The other fish seem to come when they hear the sound of the bucket being set down on the dock.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

The bluegill and cats come to the area i feed when they here the UTV pull up. You see wakes coming from all directions.

My son, BigJoshy has been feeding fatheads to a few bass in the 2-3 lb range one minnow at a time. They follow him up and down the shoreline looking for a handout. This gives me hope that maybe we can get these few bass over to feed


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## mirrocraft mike (Mar 17, 2006)

[email protected]/Lundy

Glad to hear that others have seen this happen. I tell this story and folks just look at me like i was eating these pellets. Goes to show that you can train a fish by sight and sound..


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