# Dead Big Bass penalty



## bassman2 (Jul 14, 2007)

A friend of my was fishing another circuit and caught a big bass. It was leading the tourney until the end. Another big bass was weighed in at two onces heavier......with the exception that the heavier big bass was dead.

In my circuit, the 8 oz. penalty would come off the fish.....not the total weight.

In the circuit my friend was fishing, the 8 oz. penalty came off the total weight and not the dead big bass. He lost out on the money.

Which do you think is the better way to handle a dead big bass?

Should there be a penalty for killing the big bass of the tournament?


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

in ALL the catfish tourneys I fish, ALL fish must be alive or they do not count at all, and some also dock you weight ( 2 or 5 lbs) if you acually weigh a dead fish. You also can get docked weight if seen culling dead fish at the ramp in some trails. 

Salmonid


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## Scum_Frog (Apr 3, 2009)

IMO I believe the weight should come off the fish not of the total amount. ESPECIALLY if its the big bass of the tourny. Then again im a nobody so its whatever tourny rules are! lol


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## SpecialNick (Dec 8, 2008)

I think it should come off the fish too. Dunno official rules though.


My follow up question is this though.... are you allowed to cull a dead bass?! 

I was fishing the BFL on Tanners Creek and knew I had a competitive bag, fortunately I didn't catch a 6th bass and still won so I wasnt forced to decide. My buddy told me afterwards I wasnt allowed but I haven't found it in the rules yet.


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## bass (Apr 14, 2004)

You can't call a dead fish I think thats a state rule


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## CARP 104 (Apr 19, 2004)

You cannot cull a dead fish - at least not in any tournament I've ever fished.


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## lunker4141 (Apr 19, 2010)

IMO I think that you shouldn't even be able to weigh in a dead fish. I've fished tournaments that do allow it and some that don't and have found more controversy comes with allowing dead fish to be weighed....then again its all up to the tournament director and what he wants to deal with or not deal with. Either way I'm gonna keep fishing and hope that I never have to weigh a dead fish. Only have had two fish die on me in my two years of tourney fishing. One was allowed to be weighed one wasn't.


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## Scum_Frog (Apr 3, 2009)

To me if you kill a fish you shouldnt have any other choice but to have to weigh it in. If you killed it you need to have the dead bass penatly against you to weigh it in. Its not the fishes fault that you killed it so you should take the pentalty. I am FOR weighing in a dead fish.....u might as well weigh in the fish u killed and take the fish penalty.....if not then your killing a fish for no reason and then its BS.

Also culling a dead fish is a biiggggg NO-NO. Should be stated in any tournament rules.


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## Ross (May 27, 2011)

Scum_Frog said:


> To me if you kill a fish you shouldnt have any other choice but to have to weigh it in. If you killed it you need to have the dead bass penatly against you to weigh it in. Its not the fishes fault that you killed it so you should take the pentalty. I am FOR weighing in a dead fish.....u might as well weigh in the fish u killed and take the fish penalty.....if not then your killing a fish for no reason and then its BS.
> 
> Also culling a dead fish is a biiggggg NO-NO. Should be stated in any tournament rules.


agreed.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

The fish should not be allowed in the Big Fish pot as it could have been a floater that was simply picked up.


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## JSykes3 (Oct 14, 2010)

Shortdrift said:


> The fish should not be allowed in the Big Fish pot as it could have been a floater that was simply picked up.


That's what I was thinking.


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## ranger175a (Apr 20, 2011)

Every tournament i've ever fished the penalty went against your total weight not big bass.


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## Scum_Frog (Apr 3, 2009)

Problem is you know the difference between a floater thats been floating and one thats died within 8 hrs.....color....eyes....so forth.....if you cant tell the difference then they shouldnt be running a tourny lol


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## fishslyme (Dec 23, 2009)

The Electric Bass Circuit deducts an 8oz. penalty on a dead bass if it is weighed for big bass. Only one dead bass can be weighed in. Culling dead bass is allowed, but this is a rare occurance. The fish is already dead and nothing will bring it back. There is no good way to police dead fish culling. I am sure it happens in tournaments with large pay-outs. I trust the members of the electric bass circuit. We have had members return bass to the lake after the bass jumped into the boat. Recently a member took an 8oz. dead bass penalty when he discovered upon releasing them that one of his bass had died. Killing bass is not good, but it will occur from time to time. We encourage EBC members to check livewell operation and taking care that all bass caught are released in good condition. Keep'er Wet, Fishslyme


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## GarryS (Apr 5, 2004)

This is a good question. I feel no one means to kill a bass. Somtimes they take the bait deep and there isn't anything you can do. In my tournament if you bring a dead bass to weigh-in there is a 8oz. penalty. Now the big question.. Since there is a separate pay out for Big Bass . Then if the big bass is dead they should deduct 8ozs.from the big bass weight because of the separate pay out.

I agree with NO culling of dead fish. I'm sure there are some that will do it still. That would be a hard one to catch. If they bring a short fish (under 12 inches) and try to weigh it there is a 1 lb. penalty if we catch it. This has stopped alot of guys from trying to weigh in short fish. 

GarryS


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## bassman2 (Jul 14, 2007)

There seems to be moral opinion against culling a dead fish. My question.....to those who think you should "not" cull a dead fish........Would "you" cull a dead fish in a tournament that permitted culling dead fish.? Or would you hold to your moral high ground and keep your dead fish, even though, culling dead fish is allowed?

As a tournament director, part of running a circuit is keeping it as honest and fair as possible. So let me ask another question.....

Say culling dead fish is "not" permitted. You've caught four, three pound bass and have one 12" dead fish. You catch another three pounder. Would you cull the dead 12" fish? .......Never mind that question.......Let me rephrase the question.

Same scenario, but it is a 30 boat field. All boats have one dead 12" bass. All boats catch another big fish and could cull if only it were permitted.

Who reading this thinks all 30 boats would be honest and "not" cull the scrawny little dink with the three pounder?

If only one boat cheats the whole tournament was corrupted. If multiple boats cheated.....How fair was the tournament to those who were honest?

It only takes a very little amount of money to sway the morals of people.....after all it's only a little fishing contest.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

bass said:


> You can't call a dead fish I think thats a state rule


No state rule against this.... completely up to the tournament director and the angler.

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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

The thought of a dead bass winning big bass is laughable...


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## Scum_Frog (Apr 3, 2009)

bassman2.....problem with your statement is there is a lot of 'moral' people out there who would not cull a dead bass if it was not permitted......another problem is not everyone has morals and there is wayyyyy to many people out there who would just toss out the dead bass and throw in the bigger alive fish even if its not allowed.

I am the kind of guy who follows rules....who enters tournaments and follows was tournament rules are....its just the way I am....if someone really has to cheat to win a bass tournament and take home a couple hundred bucks or a thousand or whatever the pot may be......its pathetic and you're not a good fisherman at all you're considered a joke in my eyes. If you have to shove a weight down a fishs throat to try and win a tourny....you're a disgrace to and shouldnt be allowed to call yourself a fisherman. I hate cheaters. lol


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

in my opinion, a dead bass shouldnt be allowed to be weighed in for big bass. if the rule is in place that states you cant cull dead bass, if you do it you are cheating, plain and simple. i cant recall a tournament that i was in that allowed the culling of dead bass.


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## GarryS (Apr 5, 2004)

Well put Scum_Frog.... I agree all the way.. 



lordofthepunks..... I kinda agree with you there BUT!! If they allow dead fish to be weighed on there total weight it wouldn't be right not to allow it. Like I said earlier. No one means to kill a bass. They must take the penalty for the dead big bass which might knock them out of the big bass pot anyways.. 

GarryS


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## SheepHeadMaster (Aug 25, 2011)

Our club rules and also applies to our club opens. A dead fish cannot be weighed for big bass and there is a penalty taken off the total weight.


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## bassman2 (Jul 14, 2007)

Scum_Frog said:


> bassman2.....problem with your statement is there is a lot of 'moral' people out there who would not cull a dead bass if it was not permitted......


I agree, there are moral people who would not cheat. But you and I both know, there are also people who would not blink and eye and cheat to get a couple of bucks. It is no problem having a "no culling" tournament if you have observers or "non-associated" non-boaters....they can police themselves. But when you have a team tournament or competitors can fish by themselves.....there is no way to police the no culling rule. That opens the tounament up to the possibility of cheating, very easy. I noticed , no one answered if "any in the thirty boat field would cheat?". I believe some would toss the dink to improve their weight and that destroys the integrity of the tournament. In those tournaments, people start wondering......"did they cheat and cost me a pay-out?".....and ill will and grumbling starts to fester.

We (www.electric-bass.org) strive to keep all the fish heathy and alive. That is the reason for our rule that you can "only weigh in one dead fish". We realize, any fish can die and that is unfortunate....The dead fish will be assessed a penalty. By not allowing more than one....all our anglers make a great effort to keep the fish alive.....if they don't they are not going to win.

Also, in our circuit, a dead fish can win the Big Bass as long as it is still the heaviest fish after the 8 oz. penalty. In our ten years , no dead fish has won Big Bass, but I think twice, a dead Big Bass has lost to a live fish because of the penalty. And I bet those anglers who lost out on $$$$$$$ pay pretty close attention to the heath of their fish, now.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> in my opinion, a dead bass shouldnt be allowed to be weighed in for big bass. if the rule is in place that states you cant cull dead bass, if you do it you are cheating, plain and simple. i cant recall a tournament that i was in that allowed the culling of dead bass.


No disrespect or to call you a liar because we fish different regions..... but i can't think of a single open flier from this year that stated you can't cull a dead fish..... however, i feel the same as most of you. If it dies it stays in the well. 8 oz. Penalty is the norm for the tourneys i fish. A few won't allow a dead fish to be weighed which is nothing but a waste to me, and almost ensures guys are going to be throwing them back to the birds.

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## bassman2 (Jul 14, 2007)

SheepHeadMaster said:


> Our club rules and also applies to our club opens. A dead fish cannot be weighed for big bass and there is a penalty taken off the total weight.


What is your reasoning behind a dead fish not being able to win big bass? The only reason that we considered that "rule" is because of the possibility of someone bringing in a fish from the "outside" or a "caged" fish that suffered.

As a tournament director I feel I can make that call as to an eligible fish. Also, I do not think it would be fair to the honest angler who happened to catch that aged fish (it is big) and for no apparent reason.....it died......If it is still the "biggest" after the penalty, it is the biggest fish caught.


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## fishslyme (Dec 23, 2009)

I fish for fun not to kill fish. In all the years that I have fished, longer than most of you have walked the earth, plenty of bass have died by my hand. In my younger days they were eaten. Why, if caught fairly, should I not be able to weigh in a dead bass? By the way, I have only weighed in a dead bass twice in all the tournaments I have ever fished. I caught them fairly and have no issues with anyone doing the same. If you want to fish and never kill a bass I suggest that you invest in a Wii, sit on your butt, and never kill a fish. Keep'er Wet, Fishslyme


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## Marshall (Apr 11, 2004)

Sometimes a fish will die and there is nothing you can do about it. It can even be hooked in what appears to be a good spot and all of a sudden you check on your fish and say to yourself what the heck happened. Its part of the game, we are sticking an animal in the mouth with a hook and sometimes not often (luckilly) they will die. If fishing a tourney where you are not allowed to weigh a dead fish, to me its a waste of fish, its just gonna get chucked back in the water or the weeds, why not weigh it. Its a whole different game when someone fishes a tourney with an inappropriote livewell or one that does not work properly and has all their fish die. I understand that things happen like your pumps quit working and such but its part of the tournament participant to check the fish often throughout the day and make sure all is well. To me thats what the dead fish penalty is all about. This stops they guy from chucking a fish in the livewell and not opening it up untill weigh in. I once had an almost 5lber in a tourney try to spit up a bait fish and i found it dead in the livewell about an hour after i caught it. When caught it was hooked in the side of the mouth and all looked well. I picked up the fish and saw a large baitfish comming head first out of its throat. Here is an example of there was nothing i could do to prevent the fish from dying. From now on if i get a large fish when checking on them i will occasionally open its mouth and make sure nothing is stuck in it. Lesson learned from that one. I took the penalty but had to listen to guys grumbling in the background about how i killed such a nice bass. That was years ago and it cost me a lot, went from 1st to 4th because the penalty was half the weight of the dead fish. It was not big bass of the tourney so that was not a factor. I was more upset the fish died than loosing out on the money. I can say one thing and im sure i speak for others, when a fish dies in my boat i can say i did all i can to have prevented it through proper livewell management and fish handling techniques. I know that most of us are passionate about our sport because when we kill a fish we always try to figure out what we could have done to prevent it verses just saying oh well its just a fish.


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## Nipididdee (Apr 19, 2004)

We have always held to a DQ for any of our electric events for any dead fish presented at the bump tank. 

Note, we also have an objective rule to determine what is considered a "dead bass" once presented- and even thereafter... think about that one for a second...

First time in 12 years did we implement the count this past season at lado. 

The fish remained upright, on it's own, for a count of ten in the medical tank after a period of angler resuscitation. 

I argue it is a testiment to what properly treated organizational holding systems can do, as anyone would've agreed, the fish literally was brought back to life. Dulled eyes and all...really.

We instituted the DQ dead rule in these electric gigs for one reason- *to force the needed angler education and time spent to care for fish in non-traditional wells.*

I know factually that as a group- my electric fields understand more and know how to truly properly care for their creel, all day, opposed to the big boat guys with generally more advanced well systems who can well dump and forget about them.

Although the bigboats get away with it, and initial mortality is low- I have grave concerns for the 48 hours after fish like that are released, especially during warm water periods. 

It is often also why larger fish are more likely to experience intial and post release (delayed) mortality- they require extensive treatments to maintain the higher amounts of 02 bigger fish will use to stay healthy. 

Our bigboat events have always instituted a non-traditional 1lb penalty per dead fish, including big if it is dead.

Combined reasoning of forcing angler's hands with the utmost creel care and deterring any "illegal" wins ( it's hard for me to say the word "cheat").

I get a chuckle with much of the discussion here about specifics- nearly any rule can be beat to death- guaranteed at least one will push any rule, break it or not know it. 

They usually don't know their boat number either.

*Organizationally- our stringent dead fish penalties are in purpose of forcing proper care- not just for the tub time...but the days ahead of post release.*

nip


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Bad Bub said:


> No disrespect or to call you a liar because we fish different regions..... but i can't think of a single open flier from this year that stated you can't cull a dead fish..... however, i feel the same as most of you. If it dies it stays in the well. 8 oz. Penalty is the norm for the tourneys i fish. A few won't allow a dead fish to be weighed which is nothing but a waste to me, and almost ensures guys are going to be throwing them back to the birds.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


http://assets.espn.go.com/winnercomm/outdoors/bassmaster/pdf/b_elite_marshal_rules_2009.pdf

refer to rule C17. i happen to fish B.A.S.S. but ALOT of opens refer to B.A.S.S. rules in there fliers rather then write out every single rule on a flier.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

this is a sportsmanship rule, we all agree that there should be a penalty for a dead fish and that dead fish should be allowed because people would not bring them to the scales to be penalized BUTTTTTTT suggesting that you cannot police the culling of dead fish therefore there shouldnt be a rule against it is RETARDED. If that is true, what rules can you police? its no different then not policing a rule against using live bait, not policing a law against tying up fish or policing a rule against anything else. 

you put it in the rules, if you catch someone doing it they get banned, simple as that. just like any other rule in a team tournament, its tough to monitor it at all times but that doesnt mean it should be allowed.

as far as picking up an already dead fish and putting it in your box? there are already rules in place against that as well, its called "all fish must be caught in a sporting manner" its in most of the rules ive read, another rule that you cannot monitor 100% of the time. 


make your rules, put them in place, make sure your fisherman know the rules and the consequences and go fishing, its all you can do but dismissing a rule because its hard to monitor is not an excuse to eliminate the rule, they are ALL hard to monitor in team tournaments, you just have to hope you catch the cheaters and you have honest guys fishing around you.


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## SheepHeadMaster (Aug 25, 2011)

bassman2 said:


> What is your reasoning behind a dead fish not being able to win big bass? The only reason that we considered that "rule" is because of the possibility of someone bringing in a fish from the "outside" or a "caged" fish that suffered.
> 
> As a tournament director I feel I can make that call as to an eligible fish. Also, I do not think it would be fair to the honest angler who happened to catch that aged fish (it is big) and for no apparent reason.....it died......If it is still the "biggest" after the penalty, it is the biggest fish caught.


We defer to the OBFN guidlines for items not specifically covered by our club bylaws. As noted in the OBFN Entry Fees and Payout section:
Entry Fee for the Angler side of each event will be $##.## which includes Live Big Bass.

The reason for the rule is to simply avoid an argument and remove the appearance of any funny business. 

BTW: Their rules also specifically state that there will be "No culling of a dead fish"

Either way you do it, just make sure you have it set in stone. There are valid arguments for and against this rule but it is ultimately up to the club or tournament director to decide which way to go.

Like everyone else here I have had a fish die on me for no apparent reason during the day. Only once in 10 years has it ever cost me a big bass side pot.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> http://assets.espn.go.com/winnercomm/outdoors/bassmaster/pdf/b_elite_marshal_rules_2009.pdf
> 
> refer to rule C17. i happen to fish B.A.S.S. but ALOT of opens refer to B.A.S.S. rules in there fliers rather then write out every single rule on a flier.


Thank you punk, i'll watch for that!

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## lakeslouie (Jan 11, 2006)

hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. "Big bass must be alive to collect big bass prize". If that statement is not in your rules (directors), then you're askin for trouble. There is a valid reason for this, which i will not state. Use your noggin. . . ! Dead big fish should be allowed to weigh for total aggregate, minus any set df penalties as stated in organizations tourny rules, but DQ'ed for big bass. Ya accidents happen, but thats the breaks. Tis better to have your big fish be alive than to have your integerity maligned by a jealous angler.


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## SpecialNick (Dec 8, 2008)

Though this got way more ethical than I think anyone wanted... most biologists I think would say throwing a dead bass into the water is not good for the water. I intended on throwing it onto the bank. I appreciate lord looking up the BASS rules and seeing that its in all caps I seriously doubt FLW is any different. My fish this time was gut hooked, and despite my surgical efforts died shortly after being in a livewell with rejuvenaide and a bit of ice. The real tough situation this puts you in is if you get your quick limit, run down the lake and they are all dead.... I guess your day is done.


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