# Jim Stedke on line seminar



## Jim Stedke

I came home from hip replacement surgery today and will be house bound for a couple weeks. As a thank you to Carl and the fine folks here at OGF, and because there's a real need for me to have something to do, I'd like to start kind of an online seminar about walleye fishing on Lake Erie, so long as the "powers at be" go along with it. 

SOOO. We are all anticipating a great Spring bite, both on the reefs and in the deeper water within a couple miles of the reefs. Does anyone have a question to start this off???

COME ON SPRING!!!


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## ezbite

first off- hope the surgery was a positive one, are you ok  

now, how do you feel about adding those store bought scents to plugs or spoons? do you really think they can make a difference or do they wash right off?


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## ezbite

also whats the advantage of snap weights over just letting out more line?


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## Jim Stedke

My bad, I'm doing quite well. Sitting at the computer is no problem. 

Scents, the smear on and paste type scents work fine on cranks and hang on for hours. The liquids can be helpful even thought they do wash off fairly soon because they can cover any foreign scent on the lure. 
I have a tendancy to not use them very often, but I know there are days (especially the tuff days) when they will put a few bonus fish into a skimpy box.

Snap wts as opposed to longer drop lengths: Snap wts give the added benefit of verticle swim to you lures. The closer the wt is to the lure the more radical that verticle swim. Verticle swim is one of the best triggers, and is almost always of benefit.

Hope this helps, and good luck.


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## Bobinstow90

Jim

Hope you recover quickly from the surgery.

Still rather new on Erie with lots to learn. Is it correct that snap weights would usually be used off boards to help get the bait to the desired depth? Can they also be used on the lines running directly behind the boat without boards?

Would you explain what you mean by "vertical swim" and how that may trigger bites?

Thanks for the pointers.
Bob


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## blue dolphin

Hey ezbite Jim i hope your doing well now you should be as good as new im going to chime in here if you dont mind on scent. I use procure super gel walleye scent on all my cranks and spoons all the time. its the best scent i ever used. Like Jim said on positive days it doesnt matter but doesnt hurt and on neutral and negative days i cant live wit out it. All the people that went on charters and who i bummed rides with this fall all are believers now and wont live with out it either. If you want some i know rodmakers shoppe in strongsville has it if that doesnt work let me know tightlines gary zart blue dolphin


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## Jim Stedke

Bob, Snap wts add depth to any presentation and can be used on flat lines (straight behind). 

The verticle swim I referred to is the up and down movement of the crank or harness that occurs when speed is added (up) or taken away (down). This change in speed can be slighht steering corrections, throttle adjustments, turns, changes in direction, or purposful zig-zagging. Boards maximize this effect because they can surge or sag in the waves, and because of the off to the side condition, that causes a kind of crack the whip effect. 

A following walleye detects this change in depth and thinks the prey he is tracking is about to escape, so he attacks. 

Lines straight out the back of the boat would minimize this effect but the added wt would inprove seperation between the lures. (The lines with the wts should be the deepest lines and on the inside of shallower lines, to minimize tangles.)

How much depth you add depends on your speed, and your placment of the wt. At 2 mph you'll add about 6-8' per ounce of wt. At 1 mph (spinner speed) you'll add 16 to 20' of depth when placing the wt 50' ahead of the lure and putting 50' of line between the wt and the board or rod tip.

The harder the lure pulls the less the added depth, but even with hard pulling deep cranks like Reef Runners or Power Dive Minnows, you still get some added depth. 

I hope I haven't confused you. Thanks for the question, and good luck,


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> A following walleye detects this change in depth and thinks the prey he is tracking is about to escape, so he attacks.


is this also why pumping the rod when trolling sometimes will trigger a strike?


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## ezbite

blue dolphin said:


> Hey ezbite Jim i hope your doing well now you should be as good as new im going to chime in here if you dont mind on scent. I use procure super gel walleye scent on all my cranks and spoons all the time. its the best scent i ever used. Like Jim said on positive days it doesnt matter but doesnt hurt and on neutral and negative days i cant live wit out it. All the people that went on charters and who i bummed rides with this fall all are believers now and wont live with out it either. If you want some i know rodmakers shoppe in strongsville has it if that doesnt work let me know tightlines gary zart blue dolphin


do they have a web site?


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## blue dolphin

ezbite said:


> do they have a web site?


www.pro-cure.com


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## harle96

Jim....Sure do hope you have a speedy recovery.



Jim Stedke said:


> SOOO. We are all anticipating a great Spring bite, both on the reefs and in the deeper water within a couple miles of the reefs. Does anyone have a question to start this off???
> 
> COME ON SPRING!!!


Vertical jigging question. I'm assuming drifting will be # 1 choice. Say you are in 15 fow, how much line do you send out? Just enough to stay in contact with the bottom? What about dragging the jig while pumping the rod say a 30 count in 15 fow? 

Any advice for jigging would be appreciated. Last year I pretty much missed the reef bite, and caught the tail end of it. I did manage to catch 2 tipped with minnow, but I remember having a ton of line out, it was really windy that day.

Dave


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## fishingguy

Inline board question. Almost all fishing trips there is only my son and I. This year I plan on adding the in line boards to the arsenal. If I have two boards out on each side, how do I deal with the inside board when a fish strikes the outside board? #1 rule on my boat is the driver does not leave the helm, unless to net fish, or get a beer if I am driving. How would you deal with it? Is there any drawbacks to rigging the board so it releases and allow it to move back and around the inside board before you reel it in? I don't like the idea of having to reel the inside board in so you can deal with the outside. I do have a mast and big boards but don't particularly like to use them. Thanks, this should be a TREMENDUS thread!!


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## Jim Stedke

ezbite said:


> is this also why pumping the rod when trolling sometimes will trigger a strike?


 Rod bumping with mono in my opinion is a waist of time. There's too much stretch in mono to allow any effect at the lure. In essence the stretchyness of the mono absorbs all the movement. 
With superbraids that speed goes right to the lure and you are creating a kind of darting effect. Not os much up and down, but more of a dart forward, pause, dart forward thing.
Thanks and good luck.


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## MadMac

What is the difference in fluorocarbon fishing line and fluorocarbon leader material? I like to use Stren Superbraid with a fluorocarbon leader for trolling and jigging. I have been using Seaguer leader material. I found I can buy 300 yards of P-Line Floroclear http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=30721&hvarDept=100&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=10&hvarSubCode=1&hvarTarget=browse for $2 more than 27 yards of P-Line Leader material http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=51533&hvarDept=100&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=10&hvarSubCode=1&hvarTarget=browse . I realize the Floroclear only has a coating of fluorocarbon but do you think it would be ok to use for leaders?


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## Jim Stedke

harle96 said:


> Jim....Sure do hope you have a speedy recovery.
> 
> 
> 
> Vertical jigging question. I'm assuming drifting will be # 1 choice. Say you are in 15 fow, how much line do you send out? Just enough to stay in contact with the bottom? What about dragging the jig while pumping the rod say a 30 count in 15 fow?
> 
> Any advice for jigging would be appreciated. Last year I pretty much missed the reef bite, and caught the tail end of it. I did manage to catch 2 tipped with minnow, but I remember having a ton of line out, it was really windy that day.
> 
> Dave


Dave, A 45 degree line angle gives you the control you need in a drift and drag situation. A 1/2 oz jig is good at a drift speed of 1 mph in about 12' of water. Use drift bags to slow a fast drift or your trolling motor to simulate a drift in dead calm conditions. 

Go to the upwind side first and drift up onto the reef. If you have a mapping GPS use it to find cups or points and the steepest slopes. These will most often be the sweet spots. 

Purple hair jigs with stinger hooks and a 4" minnow is the weapon of choice. The jig heads are tear drop shaped (I've seen them called "river Jigs").

Hope this helps, and be good the game wordens will be watching.


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## Jim Stedke

fishingguy said:


> Inline board question. Almost all fishing trips there is only my son and I. This year I plan on adding the in line boards to the arsenal. If I have two boards out on each side, how do I deal with the inside board when a fish strikes the outside board? #1 rule on my boat is the driver does not leave the helm, unless to net fish, or get a beer if I am driving. How would you deal with it? Is there any drawbacks to rigging the board so it releases and allow it to move back and around the inside board before you reel it in? I don't like the idea of having to reel the inside board in so you can deal with the outside. I do have a mast and big boards but don't particularly like to use them. Thanks, this should be a TREMENDUS thread!!



Bigger fish will pull the board back enought to clear, but smaller ones do not. If you turn the boat just slightly away from the fish (say 15 - 20 degrees), this will aid in line clearing, but often traffic does not allow this ...so, we've found that bringing the inside board to within 20' of the boat and moving the rod to the other side, works best for us. This allows the lure to keep fishing and minimizes tangles. 

There are many ways to clear lines, but to go into all of them would take too much time and just confuse folks. 

Hope this helps, Thanks for the question.


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## Jim Stedke

MadMac said:


> What is the difference in fluorocarbon fishing line and fluorocarbon leader material? I like to use Stren Superbraid with a fluorocarbon leader for trolling and jigging. I have been using Seaguer leader material. I found I can buy 300 yards of P-Line Floroclear http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=30721&hvarDept=100&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=10&hvarSubCode=1&hvarTarget=browse for $2 more than 27 yards of P-Line Leader material http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=51533&hvarDept=100&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=10&hvarSubCode=1&hvarTarget=browse . I realize the Floroclear only has a coating of fluorocarbon but do you think it would be ok to use for leaders?



The biggest difference is tuffness and stiffness, with the leader material being tuffer and stiffer. The leader material makes up into 16 6' leaders, and we like the reliability it gives you. I know guys who use the reel fill stuff for leaders and if you want to... that's fine. I just hope you not disappointed when that big fish of the day gets on.

Make sure you wet up any of the flourocarbon lines before pulling down a knots. They are stiff and if you do not wet the knots they will break.

Thanks for the question and good luck.


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## fugarwi7

Glad to hear the surgery went well and you are upright.

This is good idea to cover multiple Erie eye topics in a single thread...you are going to be busy getting to all of the questions!  

So here's mine (at least the first one):

Under what conditions would it be advantageous to use a floating style worm harness versus a standard harness. Are the little float beads bouyant enough to keep a 2 hook harness off the bottom so not to snag up or pick up zebras, etc...? I assume the float is for that purpose?...are there other conditions that you would gain an edge using a floating harness presentation?

I made up a few last year but never used them...just curious.


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## Hetfieldinn

Mr Stedke,

Is there a certain time of year when spinner/crawler rigs are more successful?

Do you have a favorite color/blade size/blade style?

What are your thoughts/experiences with tipping them with a Gulp! crawler instead of a real one?


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## Jim Stedke

fugarwi7 said:


> Glad to hear the surgery went well and you are upright.
> 
> This is good idea to cover multiple Erie eye topics in a single thread...you are going to be busy getting to all of the questions!
> 
> So here's mine (at least the first one):
> 
> Under what conditions would it be advantageous to use a floating style worm harness versus a standard harness. Are the little float beads bouyant enough to keep a 2 hook harness off the bottom so not to snag up or pick up zebras, etc...? I assume the float is for that purpose?...are there other conditions that you would gain an edge using a floating harness presentation?
> 
> I made up a few last year but never used them...just curious.


Floating harnesses is somewhat of a misnomer. It takes many floating beads to float all the hardware of the harness (hooks, blades, etc.) especially if larger blades are used. 

If you are creeping along with a #3 or smaller blade in a snaggy location, I suppose a true floating harness might be beneficial. On Erie in open water situations, where suspended fish are the norm, there is no need for floats. 

Most tournament fishermen wanting to run a harness close to a snaggy bottom opt for a bottom bouncer & harness arrangement, and shorten up the leader length to keep from snagging too often. 

The term "worm harness" means different things to different people. Erie harnesses can be double bladed afairs with one or more treble hooks, and they are short (10-14"). 

If you would be more specific, I could better understand your situation and tailor the answer to your specific circumstances.


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## Got One

Mr. Stedke, Awesome thread here!!! I've only trolled crankbaits a few times with limited success. If there is a go to set-up (program),in your eyes what would it consist of. Thanks in advance. Steve,


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## Jim Stedke

Hetfieldinn said:


> Mr Stedke,
> 
> Is there a certain time of year when spinner/crawler rigs are more successful?
> 
> Do you have a favorite color/blade size/blade style?
> 
> What are your thoughts/experiences with tipping them with a Gulp! crawler instead of a real one?



On Erie harnesses work well near the reefs in early spring, and will produce lots of fish all through the summer months. From Fairport west the quantity of non-target species ie. white bass, white perch & sheephead somewhat limit thier popularity. But around Geneva and Ashtabula the worm harness rules. They are designed to be fished behind Dipsys or Jets and require a leader or jumper to attach to the divers. In these dep water situations you're fishing for smelt feeding fish, so the irridescent greens and purples are the colors to add to the blades. 

My favorite Dipsy harness is tied on 25# flourocarbon leader material. The rear hook is a #4 Excaliber treble, 4" ahead of that is a #4 single harness hook with an upturned eye. Beads are 4 or 5 mm white, light blue, and pink in whatever arrangement you like. The rear blade is a #4 deep cup Colorado copper diamond cut on a quick change clevis. Then more of the same colored beads and a #3 diamond cut copper Indiana blade on an other removable clevis, ahead of that clevis is a single small bead (any color) to help reduce pressure on that front clevis. Then 2 or 3"es of line to a loop tied with a figure 8 knot. I add color to the blades with paint pens or magic markers, one bright green and one purple stripe across the blades at an angle. 

You asked.

These harness are simulating smelt, and have done well for me in the deep water off Geneva, Astabula, and as far east as Dunkirk. 

Thanks for the question, and good luck.

bout forgot the Gulp!!! Gulp will work but you need to give it a 1/4 twist between the front 2 hooks, to give it some action. Otherwise it pulls too straight. I preferr natural crawlers, but Gulp catches.


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## Jim Stedke

Got One said:


> Mr. Stedke, Awesome thread here!!! I've only trolled crankbaits a few times with limited success. If there is a go to set-up (program),in your eyes what would it consist of. Thanks in advance. Steve,


Steve, Yes there are standard lures, colors, depths, speeds that work at certain times of the year, but they vary by season and location. Give me a date and location and I'll tell you how I'd start out. 

(of course you know the pat answer is ...just run the right color of the right lure at the right speed and depth, then simply catch the fish.) 

[sorry just couldn't stop myself]


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## Got One

OK---- April 20th 55 deg. partly cloudy. 1-3 ft waves mid afternoon

turtle creek area/ west sister


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## Tommybouy

Jim,

All the best in your recovery. Very cool of you to share your experience! Youve always seem to enjoy being an educator! 

Line Counter question. Ive religously bought Daiwa Sealine Line Counters. Im going to add more Line Counter trolling combos to my collection this year. Obviously, there are more line counters than ever...Obviously you get what you pay....What do you think of the Daiwa Accudepth Line Counters, Cabelas Line Counters etc. I may buy a few Shimano Tekota's but I want to buy other combos too. Could you rank your Line Counter Reel preference? Keep all varieties of trolling line in mind with your response. 

Thanks in advance!


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## ezmarc

Geez Jim! Now you've up and done it. I told you it wasn't you and Boatohio, you just needed a new crowd to talk to and it looks like you found it. Nice work!

For those of you that don't know, ETT has had a great message board on www.boatohio.com for many years. I've learned many things from reading and being involved with those threads. 

Lately that message board has been real slow (along with many other walleye boards) and I'm sure that Jim is enjoying this thread very much, especially since he's homebound for a while. Don't be afraid to ask him anything, if he doesn't know he'll tell you but there won't be many questions he can't respond to.


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## ShakeDown

Hope you don't mind the sticky!! Some great stuff in here, and wish you a speedy recovery Jim.


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## Liquid Therapy

jim,

ive got a Dipsy question. when im pulling 4 divers i have the center 2 set on either #1 or the 0 setting. then the outside ones have set at #2 or #3. the problem is that the setting of #3 doesnt look like they are pulling away from the boat as much as i would think. and in which i end up with a mess with just the smallest correction of the steering. i know im useing way to thick line. i messed up and bought 70# supper braid thinking that it would be the same dia. as the 30# mono. so i am going to change my reals for this spring. will that help send my divers out ferther?

thanks
bill


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## Jim Stedke

Got One said:


> OK---- April 20th 55 deg. partly cloudy. 1-3 ft waves mid afternoon
> 
> turtle creek area/ west sister


 April 20th...OH YEA nice warmist dark day. Here's the way I'd go.

Area B, C, D & E cans on the outside (north and east). If we leave from Turttle creek I'd proabaly work it from north and west to the east and south. I'd start looking in the B can area off Round Reef and look for those high scattered marks that indicate hunting walleyes. Once I located a nice concentration of walleyes I'd set up 4 or 6 in-line boards depending on how many guys were onboard. (let's say 3 guys - 6 lines). 

The first line in would be a Rip Stick Bare Naked back 45' on 10/4 Fireline (8' deep). Next to it would be a 400 Rip Shad (large one) in Superman color, back the same 45' on Fireline (11' deep). On the inside I'd Run a Deep Rouge Gold w/ a black back back the same 45' on 10/4 Fireline (12' deep).

On the mono side I'd run a Little Ripper Chrome / Blue back back 65' on 10# Big Game (5-1/2' deep), then a Deep Hushy DHJ 10 Clown back 65' on 10# Big Game (10' deep), and on the inside I'd run a Deep Little Ripper, Bare Naked back only 23' to keep it at 8' deep. 

So we have lures at 8, 11, 12, 5-1/2, 10' & 8' deep. My subs would be HJ-10 glass purple perch, Husky Jerks w/ green sides, Rip Stick Emerald Shiner or Eriedescent, Deep Rouge with orange belly & black back, and Reef Runner Bare Nakeds of various sizes. I'd concentrat on the top 12' of water and maybe go as deep as 16', but nothing deeper, even though the most marks will be at 20 - 24' deep in 27 - 32' of water. 

Speed will start out at 1.9 mph and we'll vary that from 1.5 to 2.2 and let the fish tell us what they want this day.

We may not catch huge numbers of fish, but our chances will be as good or better than any other time of the year to catch a 14# plus walleye. 

Oh man!!! I can't wait.. COME ON SPRING

Hope this helps and thanks for the question. Good luck, and oh yea we'd have 2 nets....just in case.


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## Jim Stedke

Tommybouy said:


> Jim,
> 
> All the best in your recovery. Very cool of you to share your experience! Youve always seem to enjoy being an educator!
> 
> Line Counter question. Ive religously bought Daiwa Sealine Line Counters. Im going to add more Line Counter trolling combos to my collection this year. Obviously, there are more line counters than ever...Obviously you get what you pay....What do you think of the Daiwa Accudepth Line Counters, Cabelas Line Counters etc. I may buy a few Shimano Tekota's but I want to buy other combos too. Could you rank your Line Counter Reel preference? Keep all varieties of trolling line in mind with your response.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Tom, The Tekotas are the best I've seen (at $169.00 they ought to be) Okuma makes a Convector that's a nice but is also over 130 dollars, Their Catalinas are 99.99 and are a good reel. The lower priced reels simply cut too many corners and end up being disappointments. If there was one that worked in the 50 to 75 dollar range they'd sell a ton of them. So I'm not much help. 

I've given up finding a less expensive reel that has gears, drag and a reliable line counter. My best advise is to talk to Denny Braun at Vermilion Sportman's Outpost (888 855 9032), he's got more reel know how than I by far.


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## Jim Stedke

Liquid Therapy said:


> jim,
> 
> ive got a Dipsy question. when im pulling 4 divers i have the center 2 set on either #1 or the 0 setting. then the outside ones have set at #2 or #3. the problem is that the setting of #3 doesnt look like they are pulling away from the boat as much as i would think. and in which i end up with a mess with just the smallest correction of the steering. i know im useing way to thick line. i messed up and bought 70# supper braid thinking that it would be the same dia. as the 30# mono. so i am going to change my reals for this spring. will that help send my divers out ferther?
> 
> thanks
> bill


Bill, to clearify 2 on each side, those being 0 & 2 or 1 & 3 (that is my assumption)...

The heavy line would cause the divers to ride high. But I have a couple suggestions. First weigh the Dipsys on a postal scale and use the heavier ones for the deeper settings. That may just resolve the problem. But you could additionally set the down Dipsy at 1/2 and the outside one at 3 to try to cause more seperation. Also I don't know what speed you're running but if you going under 2 mph and/or pulling larger blades or Stick baits that too could be to blame. Put the hardest pulling lure or harness on the down Dipsy, that lets everything work easier ( better).

Hope this helps, and let me know if I'm off base.


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## Jim Stedke

Hey guys, Gary Zart stepped in and gave his view earlier, and that's fine by me. This is an open discussion and everyone is welcome to express an opinion or view.


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## Tommybouy

Thanks for the feedback. The look-alone of the less expensive reels created concern. Im most interested in getting the most for my dollar and not the least expensive or most expensive. Takota's are great; Ive not used Convectors - does this post show that you are not a proponent of the Daiwa Sealine Line Counters? OR were the Daiwa Sealines' omitted from your post accidentally? 

Lastly, Like your hip surgery; I have Spinal Stenosis that requires Phys. Therapy. Keep the routine and you will be healthy! 

Best regards!

T


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## JIG

Hope for an early SPRING!!!!!!and a SPEEDY RECOVERY!!!!!!!!!! I havent done alot of big water fishin for eyes YET. On the In-land lakes I see the diff in using a jig/minnow on a retreive more so than a jig and crawler on a hop. Would this pattern hold on Erie? Also which way do these reefs lay out to drift? N-S or E-W. What is the best link to veiw this? Thanks on any help! Look like you got your typing cut out for ya! Good Luck! Bob


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## Jim Stedke

Tommybouy said:


> Thanks for the feedback. The look-alone of the less expensive reels created concern. Im most interested in getting the most for my dollar and not the least expensive or most expensive. Takota's are great; Ive not used Convectors - does this post show that you are not a proponent of the Daiwa Sealine Line Counters? OR were the Daiwa Sealines' omitted from your post accidentally?
> 
> Lastly, Like your hip surgery; I have Spinal Stenosis that requires Phys. Therapy. Keep the routine and you will be healthy!
> 
> Best regards!
> 
> T


The Sealines used to be the real deal, but I understand that they are not as bullet proof as they used to be. So if you've got some older ones...hang onto them. Sorry, I simply typed what was on my mind without thought of what you might want to see..... MY BAD.


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## Jim Stedke

JIG said:


> Hope for an early SPRING!!!!!!and a SPEEDY RECOVERY!!!!!!!!!! I havent done alot of big water fishin for eyes YET. On the In-land lakes I see the diff in using a jig/minnow on a retreive more so than a jig and crawler on a hop. Would this pattern hold on Erie? Also which way do these reefs lay out to drift? N-S or E-W. What is the best link to veiw this? Thanks on any help! Look like you got your typing cut out for ya! Good Luck! Bob



Bob, The reefs do not layout in any one direction, the outer edges are n-s & e-w but the idividual reefs vary widely. I let one of the smartet computor guys help you with maps because I'm not aware of any on-line, but I bet they are there. 

Your inland pattern may very well hold up on Erie because it likely has to do with the way the worm or minnow sets up on the hook, and how it looks to the fish. 

hope this helps, Jim


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## JIG

Ill look for maps. I dont see much for weeds at Erie but the summer holds alot in-land. Seems the minnow works early and crawler late spring. Have to try and see no doubt!


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## fishingguy

This might help Jig.http://westernbasinsportfishingassociation.com/denied/map.jpg


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## JIG

Cant get enough of it!


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## Liquid Therapy

ive been pulling stinger spoons. mostley the smaller ones and a few of the larger, so i dont think that would be the problem. yea the inside i have set low. like 0 to run streight back and ive gone to 3 1/2 for the out side but they dont seem to be going out very far, almost as streight back like the 0 setting just its moved to the side because that the inside lines are mounted on the transum and the outside are mounted on the gunrail.


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## Liquid Therapy

Tommybouy said:


> Thanks for the feedback. The look-alone of the less expensive reels created concern. Im most interested in getting the most for my dollar and not the least expensive or most expensive. Takota's are great; Ive not used Convectors - does this post show that you are not a proponent of the Daiwa Sealine Line Counters? OR were the Daiwa Sealines' omitted from your post accidentally?
> 
> Lastly, Like your hip surgery; I have Spinal Stenosis that requires Phys. Therapy. Keep the routine and you will be healthy!
> 
> Best regards!
> 
> T



just my 2 cents. i got 2 roddy hunter line counter combos new for 80.00. all i can say is oops. the line counters are way off. sometimes they read 2 to one then right on. with the same amount of line out. then the reals feel like they aren attatched well. it feels as im about to rip it out of its mount when i real something heavy. and parts keep breaking off.


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## Jim Stedke

Liquid Therapy said:


> ive been pulling stinger spoons. mostley the smaller ones and a few of the larger, so i dont think that would be the problem. yea the inside i have set low. like 0 to run streight back and ive gone to 3 1/2 for the out side but they dont seem to be going out very far, almost as streight back like the 0 setting just its moved to the side because that the inside lines are mounted on the transum and the outside are mounted on the gunrail.


The horizontal seperation on Dipsys is not huge. We run 4 on each side on the charter boat, set at 1,2,3,& 4 , and i doubt they are more than 6 -8 apart horizontally. Drining fairly straight because an issue, or tangles are unavoidable. But the seperation between a 1/2 or a 0 and a 3-1/2 should be significant unless you are using very long leads or you are going real slow. 

One other thought are you using the large Dipsy with the rings or the small ones. Rings are important when trying to achieve seperation. 

Hope this helps, & keep coming back till we figure it out.


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## ezmarc

I would like to jump in but don't want to confuse the issue or to make it appear to contradict what Jim says. We've talked about our different fishing styles more than a couple of times and just recently talked about doing a seminar showing those differences in fishing attitude.

His starting program is very nearly what I would do with some exceptions. Boat traffic and water color would come into play and I would run 1 line deep just in case and I'd probably keep my speed down to the low 1's, with a lot of zigzagging, which in affect would cause the outside lures to run as fast as his would, and the inside ones to sometimes stall out. On April 20th I'd for sure have a harness either inline weighted or behind a jet or mini disc. I would also probably only use 1 mono line at those slow speeds

Jim is the guy to talk to about Dipsy's. I rarely use more than one per side because of the speed needed to keep them separated. They just don't fit my style of fishing. That is also the reason you don't hear me talk about spoons very often. That's not to say that I won't use speed if needed. Many a time I've been in that 3 to 4 to 5 MPH range catching fish and that is where spoons come out and worms and unwieldy cranks get put away.

The Gulp thing has never proven beneficial to me until summer when the White perch and Sheep come into play. I use scent in the spring and usually put it away during late spring and summer. Maybe I should extend the season on it but when the fish are feeding like they do after the spawn and during their migration I haven't seen a real for it.

I hope I haven't confused anyone too much and that this doesn't come across as contradictory because it's not intended that way.


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## angler2002

Mr. Stedke

I am looking at buying some in-line planer board rods and I would like to use them on inland lakes as well as lake erie. What rods would you recommend including weight and action.


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## Liquid Therapy

still seems that they are going too close. when i start letting out line they move out far but as i let more line out to say 60 foot they are running streight back. i have trouble getting to a slow speed so i use two 5 gal. buckets over the side to slow me down. my gps isnt real great. a hand held from the mid 1990's but it says that im going around 1.7 to 2.5. depeinding on the day and what im doing. i just kind of thought that with 4 divers set correctly they should resemble a fan configuration.


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## JIG

Ive noticed the turning of the boat to stall my boards on one side and speeding the others up puts all 4 baits in a circle behind the boat. Sometimes Id real the inside in some to keep the line snug and avoid tangles but seemed then Id get a pull back. Trollin at 1+ strait then kickin the boat to the side was all it took. Also on the divers this year we pulled 4 off each corner and put them in a 2 foot circle on the surface. Turning did become rough. More so after you get a fish and half to turn on a way point. Guess the question Id have is can you run dipsy on snap releases and big boards? Never heard of it with all that line and releasing. Guys are good! Guy I went out with mentioned the bigger fish off the outside boards were pullin face. He thought that mono was the way to go and I got to agree. We pulled two out side boards with braid and snubbers and leaders. Couldnt move them. Lost 3 :B on Long A,s/and brought 14 home on a glass/sunny day.


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## Bobinstow90

Dear Mr. Jim Stedke, F.E. (Fisherman Extrordinair)

WOW........this thread is really awesome. Most of these questions never occured to me. 

Seriously Jim.....(just between you and me).......

What operation gave you this knowledge? 

Who was the surgeon? 

Did he/she put some kind of chip in you? Specs on the chip please? Where was this chip placed? 

Can you still get thru Homeland Security?



Threads like this keep me returning to OGF. Thanks to all who ask/answer questions on this site. Ideas/knowledge.......really help us catch fish ....way more than baits. imo.


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## ARGEE

ezmarc said:


> I would like to jump in but don't want to confuse the issue or to make it appear to contradict what Jim says. We've talked about our different fishing styles more than a couple of times and just recently talked about doing a seminar showing those differences in fishing attitude.
> 
> His starting program is very nearly what I would do with some exceptions. Boat traffic and water color would come into play and I would run 1 line deep just in case and I'd probably keep my speed down to the low 1's, with a lot of zigzagging, which in affect would cause the outside lures to run as fast as his would, and the inside ones to sometimes stall out. On April 20th I'd for sure have a harness either inline weighted or behind a jet or mini disc. I would also probably only use 1 mono line at those slow speeds
> 
> Jim is the guy to talk to about Dipsy's. I rarely use more than one per side because of the speed needed to keep them separated. They just don't fit my style of fishing. That is also the reason you don't hear me talk about spoons very often. That's not to say that I won't use speed if needed. Many a time I've been in that 3 to 4 to 5 MPH range catching fish and that is where spoons come out and worms and unwieldy cranks get put away.
> 
> The Gulp thing has never proven beneficial to me until summer when the White perch and Sheep come into play. I use scent in the spring and usually put it away during late spring and summer. Maybe I should extend the season on it but when the fish are feeding like they do after the spawn and during their migration I haven't seen a real for it.
> 
> I hope I haven't confused anyone too much and that this doesn't come across as contradictory because it's not intended that way.


MARC,HOW DO YOU USE YOUR MINI DISCS?I HAVE SOME BUT NEVER KNEW HOW TO RUN EM...THANKS ARGEE


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## Jim Stedke

angler2002 said:


> Mr. Stedke
> 
> I am looking at buying some in-line planer board rods and I would like to use them on inland lakes as well as lake erie. What rods would you recommend including weight and action.


 In-line board rods need to be rated for up to 8 - 17 # line or 10 - 20 # line. They need to have a soft readable tip with a strong butt and mid section. I like 7 to 8-1/2' rods. If you are going to run superbraids longer and softer rods will help reduce the number of rip offs. 

The most important thing about rods is that all the board rods should be the same rod (same length and same action). This is very benenficail in learning how to read your rods, and eliminates much confusion. At least have all the rods on each side identical. It really is important.

The same thing is true about Dipsy rods. They should all be alike. 

Some guys like & need telescoping rods to fit in their rod lockers, and I've seen some quite nice ones but they are typically a few more bucks. Diawa and Okuma make board rods of various lengths in the 25 to 35 dollar range and those do a fine job.

Inland or big water board rods do alot of work, and are loaded constantly. Take your time and make sure you get what you want. Fairly close guide spacing indicates a well designed rod. And medium action down rigger rods make nice board rods. Again let me plug Denny Braun at Vermilion Sportman's Outpost, (888 855 9032) he'll work with you to make sure you get what you want and need.

I'd spend a bit less on rods and a bit more on reels, I think you'll be happier in the long run.

Good luck and good fishing.


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## Jim Stedke

JIG said:


> Ive noticed the turning of the boat to stall my boards on one side and speeding the others up puts all 4 baits in a circle behind the boat. Sometimes Id real the inside in some to keep the line snug and avoid tangles but seemed then Id get a pull back. Trollin at 1+ strait then kickin the boat to the side was all it took. Also on the divers this year we pulled 4 off each corner and put them in a 2 foot circle on the surface. Turning did become rough. More so after you get a fish and half to turn on a way point. Guess the question Id have is can you run dipsy on snap releases and big boards? Never heard of it with all that line and releasing. Guys are good! Guy I went out with mentioned the bigger fish off the outside boards were pullin face. He thought that mono was the way to go and I got to agree. We pulled two out side boards with braid and snubbers and leaders. Couldnt move them. Lost 3 :B on Long A,s/and brought 14 home on a glass/sunny day.


 The smaller Dipsys (size 0) can be run off big boards ( the charters at Fairport have been doing it for years) . They use a superbraid line and go with special releases and rubber bands to hold them. And honestly with the number of 03 fish we have to work with this year, I'd guess that most of them will run 40 Jets this year instead (the Jets are not as troublesome as the Dipsys).

The fun part of Lake Erie walleye fishing is that you can catch these fish in so many different ways, at whatever speed you want to perfect. Just work at it and put a program together. 

Thanks for the question and good luck.


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## Jim Stedke

Bobinstow90 said:


> Dear Mr. Jim Stedke, F.E. (Fisherman Extrordinair)
> 
> WOW........this thread is really awesome. Most of these questions never occured to me.
> 
> Seriously Jim.....(just between you and me).......
> 
> What operation gave you this knowledge?
> 
> Who was the surgeon?
> 
> Did he/she put some kind of chip in you? Specs on the chip please? Where was this chip placed?
> 
> Can you still get thru Homeland Security?
> 
> Dr Kenneth Greene of the Crystal Clinic did my hip, and you get a specail ID card to aid with security clearances. And you know where the chip was placed. LOL.
> 
> 
> Threads like this keep me returning to OGF. Thanks to all who ask/answer questions on this site. Ideas/knowledge.......really help us catch fish ....way more than baits. imo.


I've been doing seminars at the Cleveland Boat Show for over 20 years, and you'd be hard pressed to come up with a question that I've not heard before. Thanks for the interest, and I hope you pick up some stuff that leads to heavier coolers next year.


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## ezbite

id like to get back to these snap weights. im still a little confused on how you can tell your depth when using them. how far from the lure do you clip it on the line. ive seen some diagrams and nothing has been very clear.

ok say im pulling a shallow wally diver and i want it to go down 10 feet. according to the "precision trolling" book i need to let out about 80 feet of line. if i attach the snap weight 5 feet before the wally diver do i need to let out 85 feet of line? and so on?? or does it not really matter where you clip on the weight?

also why cant i find the dive curves for rip sticks in this $30.00 book i got?? its the 8th edition. i really need to find those. theres nothing for rapala husky jerks either. (except for deep divers) thanks.


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## fishingguy

I think I understand liquid tharapy's dilemma. Say you let out 100 ft. of line with a big dipsy on a #3 setting. The line does not form a straight line from rod to dipsy. There is the drag from the water, boat speed, and other variables that can have an effect. Thier is actually a pretty large bow in the line going vertically and a little horizontally. The line where it enters the water looks to be running straight back, but don't worry, the dipsy is planing to the side as it should. I saw this somewhere, can't remember where. I hope I havn't confused you more.


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## Jim Stedke

ezbite said:


> id like to get back to these snap weights. im still a little confused on how you can tell your depth when using them. how far from the lure do you clip it on the line. ive seen some diagrams and nothing has been very clear.
> 
> ok say im pulling a shallow wally diver and i want it to go down 10 feet. according to the "precision trolling" book i need to let out about 80 feet of line. if i attach the snap weight 5 feet before the wally diver do i need to let out 85 feet of line? and so on?? or does it not really matter where you clip on the weight?
> 
> also why cant i find the dive curves for rip sticks in this $30.00 book i got?? its the 8th edition. i really need to find those. theres nothing for rapala husky jerks either. (except for deep divers) thanks.


 The snap wt adds depth and cause the added benefit of verticle swim, So instead of the lure staying at one depth it covers a band of water. How wide that band is depends on how you manipulate the boat ( how long you give it reduced speed or even stall it out on inside turns) 

If you place the wt. only 5' ahead of the lure the reacts right now and it's reation is much more radical than if the wt were 50' ahead. The snap wt chart shows that at 2 mph a 1 oz snap wt 50' ahead will get you from 8 - 12' of ADDED depth. So when we add the 8' the lure gets on 50' of line we come up with 16 - 20' depth band covered by that lure. (too deep)

So, we are forced to try and figure it out ourselves. The 1 oz gets us to 8 - 12 by itself and if we want 10' , we'd be better off dropping down to 1/2 oz wts. The 1/2 ox adds 2 - 6' of depth, and the lure goes 6' with 25' of line out, so if we put the 1/2 oz wt 5' ahead of the lure and put 20' of line out after the wt, we should be covering 8 - 12'. 

But experience has taught me that snap wts this short don't do much unless you drive like a drunken sailor. So I'd put out an other 10' of line (a total of 35') and drive more reasonably. 

In the 8th edition of Precision Trolling all the stick baits are in the back of the book. Rip Sticks are there as are all 3 sizes of Husky Jerks.

As an aside... snap wts are tanglers, and if I use them I put the same wt. the same length ahead of all the lues on that side and then I still do all I can to maximize the clearances when bringing in a fish. And I'm more likely to reel in inside lines. 

I hope this clears it up, and thanks for the question. Keep coming back till I get it right.


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## ezmarc

Argee

Mini discs have a lot in common with inline weights and snap weigts. That is, they are very speed dependent but have the advantage that since they dive you can get deeper with not so much line out, espeially at slowish speeds. In the Fairport and east section of the lake I will also throw on a snapweight ahead of the diver to get even deeper and I don't think there is an accurate dive curve anywhere to tell you how deep you are getting so it is a trial and erroe thing. I use both the 2 and the 1 3/4 in Big Jons and they pull quite well with inline boards, there is a bit bigger one that Luhr Jensen has that dives even deeper but I think they are better suited to the big boards rather than inlines. Here's a good link to explain how they run http://www.bigjon.com/tips/tips.asp?ContentID=5 I don't use them to plane to the side of the boat, I only use them behind boards and occassionally flatlined.

With steady speeds and big spreads you are probably better off running jet 30's or 40's since they float on slow down rather than sink.


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> In the 8th edition of Precision Trolling all the stick baits are in the back of the book. Rip Sticks are there as are all 3 sizes of Husky Jerks.
> 
> I hope this clears it up, and thanks for the question. Keep coming back till I get it right.


oops, guess i should have looked thru the "entire" book  thanks, i found them

as for the snap weight thing. looks like im just going to experiment to see what its all about. looks like its a lot of trial and error. i mainly pull spoons and this year im looking to try something new..


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## Jim Stedke

Yes indeed...trial and error is very much involved. Snap wts are very speed sensative, and the info in the book (to me) is only a starting point. From there it is up to you to put a program together. 

Thanks and Good luck.


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## Liquid Therapy

humm so my diver is realy going out to the side just the line isnt close to the boat where the line is out of the water. ok. thanks


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## Jim Stedke

Liquid Therapy said:


> humm so my diver is realy going out to the side just the line isnt close to the boat where the line is out of the water. ok. thanks


 This gives me the opportunity to explain why we have our Dipsy rod holders only 10" or so apart and all lined up on a rail. 

With the Dipsy holder in line only 10" apart, the rod tips are that same 10" apart. And the lines from the rod tips to the water fan out and up to form even spaces between them (like skinny little wedges). 

Now if we hook up a 4" white perch, pick up a weed or some piece of trash, the rod tip may only move 2" with the added drag. But when that even 10" spacing on the rod tips changes to 8" on one side and 12" on the other, it is very abvious. 

As you get into trolling reading the rods is what seperates the men from the boys, and we do all we can to simplify that reading of the rods.

If the Dipsy rod holders are spread out seeing those little 2" changes is nearly impossible. 

I hope this explanation makes sense, it would be easier to show you, than use words.


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## Liquid Therapy

no, no. ive got it. thanks. it all makes sense now.


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## KBUD

Jim-

First the walleye/steelhead college was great. My brother and I learned a lot for this season. My question is which Precision Trolling book is better for Lake Erie- the regular one or the big water edition? Thanks.


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## FreeByrdSteve

KBUD said:


> Jim-
> 
> First the walleye/steelhead college was great. My brother and I learned a lot for this season. My question is which Precision Trolling book is better for Lake Erie- the regular one or the big water edition? Thanks.


Just checking in this morning and saw this one - for Lake Erie (or anywhere else) if you plan to run any of the diving devices (dipseys, jets, etc.) you should get the Big Water edition. The Big Water edition does NOT have the dive curves for the crankbaits, so you will probally want to get BOTH books so you have both the dive curves for the cranks and also for the diving devices like dipseys and jets.

Steve


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## BFG

Jim,

Thanks for all of the great info so far, and here's to wishing you a speedy recovery. 

A question regarding leadcore...

I fish for salmon a lot on Lake Michigan, and we routinely use sectional cores in the spread. It is not uncommon to find us running 3,5,7,10 or more colors of lead at one time. Seeing as how I absolutely abhor Snap Weights and everything involved with them, it would seem that these same sectional cores would work for trolling for walleyes. 

The problem that I am experiencing is finding the appropriate leader length from the core to the lure. With spoons, I've found that a 7-10' leader seems to work well, but for some reason, that short lead seems to kill the action of any and all cranks. Have you used sectional cores with cranks, and if so, what were the best leads from the core to the crank? I am typically fishing the Western Basin, running 2,3,4,5,6, and 7 colors. My leader material is 10# Vanish. 

Another question regarding mini-discs...

Have you seen the new Walker discs, and do you think they hold much promise? I really like the idea of eliminating rings (they can be a PITA when they start to wear out) and I also like the idea of their mini-diver having a tripping mechanism like that of the larger models. 


Thanks again,


BFG


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## Jim Stedke

BFG said:


> Jim,
> 
> Thanks for all of the great info so far, and here's to wishing you a speedy recovery.
> 
> A question regarding leadcore...
> 
> I fish for salmon a lot on Lake Michigan, and we routinely use sectional cores in the spread. It is not uncommon to find us running 3,5,7,10 or more colors of lead at one time. Seeing as how I absolutely abhor Snap Weights and everything involved with them, it would seem that these same sectional cores would work for trolling for walleyes.
> 
> The problem that I am experiencing is finding the appropriate leader length from the core to the lure. With spoons, I've found that a 7-10' leader seems to work well, but for some reason, that short lead seems to kill the action of any and all cranks. Have you used sectional cores with cranks, and if so, what were the best leads from the core to the crank? I am typically fishing the Western Basin, running 2,3,4,5,6, and 7 colors. My leader material is 10# Vanish.
> 
> Another question regarding mini-discs...
> 
> Have you seen the new Walker discs, and do you think they hold much promise? I really like the idea of eliminating rings (they can be a PITA when they start to wear out) and I also like the idea of their mini-diver having a tripping mechanism like that of the larger models.
> 
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> 
> BFG


BFG, I've not experienced sectional lead core bothering cranks, and I've used it quite a bit with as long as 50' mono leaders and as short as 7' mono leaders. 

I can't understand how or why it would kill the crank, unless the crank is out of tune and twists up the leader. I'm very careful at tuning all presentations because it eliminates problems!! (if you fished with me you'd tell your buddies "this guy is hung up on tuning")

Maybe someone else can help us out.

Walker Discs, I have not seen them but I've talked with some who have and from what I've heard they are more precisely made than the Dipsys, and they are the same wt.

If that is the case I can assure you that I will have them for next year. I is worth the expense to eliminate the blasted rings. (we've been tell L-J that for years).

Thanks for the question and I'm sorry to not be able to respond to the first part.

Good luck and good fishing


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## ezmarc

I, liike Jim, don't see why you'd be killing the action on your cranks. I'm not nearly as anal as most people are about tuning cranks, as I have a "close enough" mentality and I don't have issues with crank action. I've used leaders as long as a hundred feet in Dunkirk (ultra clear water) to as little as 2 feet (because of breakoffs and freying) in the Western basin. I actually know someone, who the first time he used lead, won a tournament at Mosquito using lead with the crank tied directly to the leadcore and no lead removed from the sheath, the knot was huge! I have never used it with spoons except with a 3 way system. 

For the life of me I can't see using 7 colors of lead in the Western Basin unless you're in the couple spots that are over 40 foot deep. I typicall use 2-4 colors in water less tha 35 feet in depth. 2 colors and a hundred feet of mono, with a Reefrunner will get you close to 40 feet. It may work as a presentation for spoons, but there a way more efficient ways of getting spoons down there. I usually consider lead a slow presentation and spoons a fast one so maybe I'm missing something here and will have to give it a go next summer.

I haven't seen or used the Walkers but I'll keep my eye out for them. Sounds like a nice setup.


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## K gonefishin

I was told that Lur Jensen took there products manfacturing to China and the new dipsey's aren't going to be what they used to be, maybe that is why Walker came out with some new ones. Just a thought.


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## fishingguy

I never heard of those walker divers, so I did a search. Found this. http://walkerdownriggers.com/deeper_diver.html Also found one place selling them. http://billshooks.com/default.php


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## Jim Stedke

fishingguy said:


> I never heard of those walker divers, so I did a search. Found this. http://walkerdownriggers.com/deeper_diver.html Also found one place selling them. http://billshooks.com/default.php


 I spoke with the folks at Bill's Hooks. They have not recieved any yet. Expect them next week. The extra large is same dia. as #1 Dipsy with the ring.
Probably going to be hard to find for a while, but they sure like the way to go.


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## fishon

i like them.. No Rings.. gonna have to put an order in....

Mr. Stedke,

what sizes you recommend or just go with the largest one....as you refered to earlier.

Frank


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## Shawn Philbrick

Jim...........what are your thoughts on blade baits. (like the cicada type)

Have you ever used them during jigging season......and finally .....other than a swivel, are there any tricks to prevent line twisting.......


Thanks


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## Jim Stedke

fishon said:


> i like them.. No Rings.. gonna have to put an order in....
> 
> Mr. Stedke,
> 
> what sizes you recommend or just go with the largest one....as you refered to earlier.
> 
> Frank


Frank, If you fish the west end (Islands) only, I'd go with the middle size (which is like the 0 Dipsy w/ the riing. This size can be run off big boards if you want to.

If you fish the Central or Eastern Basin I'd go with the largest one (like the size 1 Dipsy with the ring). 

I'd pick one size and stick to it so as not to complicate the situation. For me one size and one size only is plenty complicated in itself.

Thanks for the queston and best of luck.


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## Jim Stedke

Shawn Philbrick said:


> Jim...........what are your thoughts on blade baits. (like the cicada type)
> 
> Have you ever used them during jigging season......and finally .....other than a swivel, are there any tricks to prevent line twisting.......
> 
> 
> Thanks


Shawn, Blade baits can be very effective. The vibration they produce mimic a dying shad and can literally call fish to you. The Cicada has a concave side and rotates one direction on the sink. For this reason they are line twisters, and you should use a Sampo ballbearing swivel 18 - 24" above the lure.
The Silver Buddy, Sonar, and most others will rotate in both directions, but swivwls are still required.
I'm not aware of anything else that helps minimize the twisting.

Yes they are used during the jigging season,,,in fact a couple Green Cove charter guys specialize in early season blade bait trips, and do very well. 

A tip on using them, raise the rod just fast enough to allow you to feel the vibration (the slower the vibration the better) usually. We call this just burping the lure. Fish often catch these lures on the fall, so track the lure on the sink with the rod tip, and if it stops short of the bottom...set the hook. Silver w/chartruse prism tape is my favorite color.

Thanks for the question , and best of luck.


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## fishon

Hope your recovery is going well!,

...makes Sense to me....keep it simple ...
Central basin is were we fish 90% of the year..... just wanted to make sure i was on the same page... 

Great Thread by the way!! kept me busy during down time here in the office... *we* can never remember or know enough!!! great tib bits and reminders! This is why this Site to me is # 1...

also thank you to Ezmarc and Gary of Blue Dophin!

Frank


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## Jim Stedke

ERIE REBEL said:


> Jim,what do you think of using the beaded trolling sinkers on the western side of the islands to pull spinners with?Normally use #5 blades that I tie myself


Erie Rebel, Bead chain sinkers, are fine for use with harnesses. Most use them with in-lone boards but they could be used with big boards as well. 

For those not familiar with this technique:
With bead chain sinkers the sinker is attached ahead of a 4 - 6' snell (or a leader) and stays in place while landing a fish. 

The diference between a bead chain and a snap wt. is the distance from the spinner to the sinker (the snap wt can go where you want). But I preferr the more radical up and down swimming action of the sinker being closer to the spinner anyway, so for me it is the simplest way to achieve this desired effect.

With a #5 blade speeds must be kept down or leaders will likely get spun up, so lighter wts would be needed to allow the harness to stay high (but only if you want it high). 

Very effective presentation and one that has been used to win April PWT events, more than once.

Thanks for the question, and best of luck.


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## blue dolphin

Fishon (Frank) No problem with the help anything i can do to help. Couple things i would like to add to all the questions on harnesses and cranks. Harnesses are by far something that ive spent alot of time using and experimenting . Out of all my wins and top fives i would say 90% were won on harnesses and the rest on cranks. One thing about harnesses they wont out fish cranks and spoons when fish are positive but if there neutral or negative theres nothing else id rather fish once the water temp reaches 46 to 48 degrees. I start with inlines and snap weights and once were in the high 50s dipseys on the boat rods and cranks and harnesses and the board rods. One inline i love to use is the bass pro xps they look like real bait fish and you would be surprise how many walleye hit the inline first. always make you harnesses out of fluorocarbon. 12-15 lb test is good for me. On dipseys 20 lb fluorocarbon 8-10 ft. snap at harnesses end and ball bearing on dipsey end. Always a black dipsey. Speed is crucial sometimes .1 or .2 can mean the difference between putting lots of fish in the boat and not.When the water is colder 48-55 .8 to 1.3 is preferred for me and then up from there as the water warms. Always do s turns with the boat if you not catching fish. It causes fluctuation with speed and depth and walleyes hate that. Colors vary but gold firetiger xps is one of my favorites and also rainbow trout. Any of the silver streak blades are great from colorados to the willow leafs. Never be closed minded and always stay flexible its crucial to staying consitant out there. As far as Cranks go nothing beats a Reefrunner. I love them I have caught alot of fish with them and there colors are unmatched my anyone. Ripstick and deep divers with short leads in the spring below 50 degrees and one of my favorite programs in the summer is 2 ounces 20 ft in front of a deep reefrunner 125 to 150 back. It wont catch you alot of fish but i think you will like what you catch as far as quality. My favorite colors Bare naked of course barbie, moon eye,Fire Tiger, Hot Tamale, Blue hawaiin, Fruit Loop, Bubblegum, Purple prism, Wild thing, rebel queen, Purple Demon to name a few lol. I alway use a fluorocarbon leader off my main line weather its mono or braid. Connect it with a small micro swivel number 2 and you can reel it up through your guides and reel. Well thats a small book for now hope this helps somebody if it does im glad. thanks Jim for letting me post on your thread. Tight lines Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## Hetfieldinn

When you run the inline weights, what sizes are you using, and how far in front of the harness are you putting them?


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## blue dolphin

Het I use a 6 ft fluorocarbon harness and depth depends on what weight i use but usually under 30 no more than two ounce and 3 over that. Just a little stat a 1 mph with a 1 ounce inline what ever you lead length is cut it in half and thats how deep your going so if your lead was 30 then you would be getting down 15 ft apprx. hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## ezbite

blue dolphin said:


> Het I use a 6 ft fluorocarbon harness and depth depends on what weight i use but usually under 30 no more than two ounce and 3 over that. Just a little stat a 1 mph with a 1 ounce inline what ever you lead length is cut it in half and thats how deep your going so if your lead was 30 then you would be getting down 15 ft apprx. hope this helps Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


hi gary, can i use this formula with rip sticks or does it only favor harnesses? would 30 be where i clip on the weight? if so how much line do you let out after that?


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## blue dolphin

ezbite said:


> hi gary, can i use this formula with rip sticks or does it only favor harnesses? would 30 be where i clip on the weight? if so how much line do you let out after that?


Ezbite your getting a little confused. The 30 ft lead is from the inline weight at the end of rod out 30 ft then clip on your inline board and send her out to the side. This is nothing to do with ripsticks if you want to know how deep one goes with how much lead check the precision trolling book to get the correct depth and lead hope this helps gary zart blue dolphin


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## ezbite

blue dolphin said:


> Ezbite your getting a little confused. The 30 ft lead is from the inline weight at the end of rod out 30 ft then clip on your inline board and send her out to the side. This is nothing to do with ripsticks if you want to know how deep one goes with how much lead check the precision trolling book to get the correct depth and lead hope this helps gary zart blue dolphin


i've been know to become confused before, just read some of my past post..LOL..  now that you said its how far from the rod tip to where the weight is clipped controls the depth. i understand. thanks


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## blue dolphin

ezbite said:


> i've been know to become confused before, just read some of my past post..LOL..  now that you said its how far from the rod tip to where the weight is clipped controls the depth. i understand. thanks


Your welcome ezbite good luck gary


----------



## Jim Stedke

It would appear that we've been cut loose from the top of the page (not my doing, and sorry for the inconvenience), but I'll be checking the thread regularly, so keep the questions coming. 

Thanks and good fishing.
ps. this really is making my "grounding " more tolerable.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Opps my bad...now we are reattached...Oh well....either way we'll make it work. Thanks, Jim


----------



## misfit

LOL.not your bad.
old man dale probably hit the wrong button by accident(again)


----------



## DaleM

Not me Rick, I just received his PM asking about it. For once I'm not to blame


----------



## misfit

LOL.sorry buddy,but you were the first one who came to mind  
i don't know why though


----------



## DaleM

I expected that Rick, my reputation?  I'm trying to change, but it's hard for old people to do that.


----------



## ezbite

blue dolphin said:


> As far as Cranks go nothing beats a Reefrunner. I love them I have caught alot of fish with them and there colors are unmatched my anyone. Tight lines Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


has anyone tried rapala deep diving tail dancers? i saw an infisherman show last early summer where doug stange said it was the best walleye bait he has EVER fished..i knew this was a bold statement but i fell for it and ran out and bought 8 of them. i only ever caught one small walleye on them. it was so small we didn't even measure just tossed it back. i didn't fish them on more than 4 or 5 trips, maybe i didn't give them enough time??


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Yes they do work! They are great baits and I have used them all over the state! I use mainly the smaller ones on the inland lakes and have had some pretty good success with them. On the big lake I used them a few times and did pretty good out of Ashtabula with them but for some reason the fish wanted to be spoon fed or crawler harness fed.


----------



## blue dolphin

ezbite said:


> has anyone tried rapala deep diving tail dancers? i saw an infisherman show last early summer where doug stange said it was the best walleye bait he has EVER fished..i knew this was a bold statement but i fell for it and ran out and bought 8 of them. i only ever caught one small walleye on them. it was so small we didn't even measure just tossed it back. i didn't fish them on more than 4 or 5 trips, maybe i didn't give them enough time??


Ezbite i have not had any luck with them either . I have a fishing buddys of mine that have done well but not me. I even left on out all last year and it caught some fish but not what the reef runners did but like i said some people swear by them . For me ill stick to Reefrunners they take care of me well good luck gary zart blue dolphin


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

I also use reef runners, rapala's, bombers, daves k booms, and a ton of other baits. I was just stating that they do work!

If ya wanna sell them just let me know I'll buy them!


----------



## Bait Dave

Thanks for starting the thread Jim, good idea. Guys that are coming in the shop appreciate it, an angler on our forum has plugged a link to this thread.
Why not write a reference book? 


Thanks for ALL professional input guys. 

I high-5 all of ya,

Dave


----------



## Jim Stedke

Hey, I'm happy to help. On the lure of choice thing.... Reef Runners have earned their spot at the front of the line in my boat, by outproducing Thundersticks, Bombers, Bagley Top Guns, and all the lures that we've run against them. 

The irony is that what makes them great is the exact some thing that stops fishemen from using them, and that is the fact that they are tricky to turn. They work so well because they have that built in kick out (we call it a horizontal hunting action) . They are perfectly tuned when the lure kicks out equally to both sides, and it takes some patience to get them there. But believe you me... it is well worth the effort. That kickout is a huge trigger to following walleyes.

One other thing that seems to fit into this lure discussion is the fact that, it is not the secret lure or the secret color...95 percent of the time it is getting your lure to the right depth. You could have ran the new hot Bare Naked Reef Ruinners all last summer, and if you weren't into it enough to keep them in the zone, it wouldn't have done squat.

Depth is the first thing to be concerned with, and the biggest key nearly everyday. The exception may be real early Spring and real late Fall, but even then it only becomes unimportant if you keep everything way up high. 

I appreciate and enjoy the replys and these discussions are also a learning opportunity for me.


----------



## Bob Why

Jim, All through this thread you mention tuning. Have you ever found lures that can't be tuned?


----------



## ezbite

why do reef runners need tuned if they have a split ring on the nose? i could see if it was just the eye of the lure but they all have split rings. ok i guess what im really asking is why is there a split ring then. also do you change hooks on reef runners. i have noticed i have different hooks on some RR it matters where i got them. i hope these aren't too simple of questions, i just want to try to cover all i can before hitting the water. these are some of the questions i asked myself during the season it's just taking me a while to jog the old memory.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Bob Why said:


> Jim, All through this thread you mention tuning. Have you ever found lures that can't be tuned?


Bob, Yes I have seen lures that were so unstable that the tune changed with any speed change, and therefore were unfishable. 

If Scott Stecher Pres. of Reef Runner was on your boat and took a new lure out of the package...before he snapped it on he would shake the lure (to make sure the rattles weren't stuck), and if it didn't sound right, he'd hold the lure by the bill and wack it hard on something substantial, first on one side and then the other to make sure the rattles were freed up. He says most of the lures returned because they were untunable had stuck rattles. 

The rest have had the line tie loop weakend to the point that it won't hold a tune. That's why going slow and not overtuningis crutial.

I'm glad to have you notice that I'm stressing tuning because it needs streesed. I check every lure that I set out all summer. It takes 3 seconds and keeps my spread working the way I want it to. Often when a lure that just caught, seems out of tune, when you look closer, a hook has been bent, or the hook is stuck on the side of the lure. 

These are the details that cause tangles and discourage guys from using Reef Runners.

Thanks for the reply and COME ON SPRING>


----------



## Jim Stedke

ezbite said:


> why do reef runners need tuned if they have a split ring on the nose? i could see if it was just the eye of the lure but they all have split rings. ok i guess what im really asking is why is there a split ring then. also do you change hooks on reef runners. i have noticed i have different hooks on some RR it matters where i got them. i hope these aren't too simple of questions, i just want to try to cover all i can before hitting the water. these are some of the questions i asked myself during the season it's just taking me a while to jog the old memory.


Ez, The split ring is there to free up the action of the lure. It doesn't make the lure self tuning. I'm so detail orientated that I make sure the split ring is in the exact position I want before I start tuning (that is open part against the line tie loop or down).

I do change hooks in tournaments, but not in day to day fishing. Generally to a larger straight point round bend treble like a gamakatsu. There are many really nice hooks nowadays. Hooks have come along way in the last 6 to 8 years. 

While we have the lure upside down, that reminds me that the hook hanger loops can get twisted in the assembly process, so check them also. Put them back to straight if they are twisted.

There's no such thing as too simple a question.


----------



## MadMac

Jim, you mentioned how important it is to keep the lures in the zone. If the eyes are chasing clouds of bait fish do you have better results running the lures at the top or bottom of the cloud? Or do you just run them a couple feet above the eyes?


----------



## Jim Stedke

MadMac said:


> Jim, you mentioned how important it is to keep the lures in the zone. If the eyes are chasing clouds of bait fish do you have better results running the lures at the top or bottom of the cloud? Or do you just run them a couple feet above the eyes?


 Current conditions must be taken into account. If the bait balls are scattered with fish under them scattered as well, it may be a time to fish different depths. In fact there is a window of about 3 weeks in late July & early August off Lorain when there are fish at 2 seperate zones.. one around 35' and one up around 18'. 

But the short answer is most of the time you want your lures near the bottom of the bait balls. 

Also be watching for the "zone " to change and be ready to adjust with the fish. A big advantage the charters have is they can cover more than 1 depth with the 12 to 16 lines they are allowed to run. So as the fish come up. they already have something there waiting for them. and simply readjust the others to what is firing now. 

Most of the time the walleyes will be 5 - 8' below the bait, but my 1st choice would be bottom to center of the bait. 

Good luck and good fishing.


----------



## Tommybouy

Hi Jim,

Ive had good luck using Pa's. They are not a "go-to" harness for me as I prefer less gaudy baits. But when the fish are on Pa's have done well! (A lot of things work when the fish are on, especially on Erie) When cold fronts slam erie I prefer to use more finnesse. The inverted French Blade professed to be a diving lip is unique. I dont believe the French Blade dives. I do believe the French Blade may create resistance in the water not allowing the blades to lift the Pa's lure as easily. Im curious about your opinion of the French Blade and if you fish w/ Pa's?


----------



## Jim Stedke

Tommybouy said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> Ive had good luck using Pa's. They are not a "go-to" harness for me as I prefer less gaudy baits. But when the fish are on Pa's have done well! (A lot of things work when the fish are on, especially on Erie) When cold fronts slam erie I prefer to use more finnesse. The inverted French Blade professed to be a diving lip is unique. I dont believe the French Blade dives. I do believe the French Blade may create resistance in the water not allowing the blades to lift the Pa's lure as easily. Im curious about your opinion of the French Blade and if you fish w/ Pa's?


Tom, I've used Pa's in tournaments up at Saginaw Bay, and I'm sure they'd work in Erie, but my home waters in the summer time are Lorain / Vermilion area and there are just too many white bass, white perch, sheephead and yellow perch to use any harness most of the time. 

That big ole blade sticking out the front of that wt forward sure looks like it ought to dive. Or as you say resist the lift of the other blades. 

Being into Jets, Dipsys & inline wts I guess I've already got enough ways to get my offering down where I want it. And I'm afraid my typical summer speeds would be a little too fast for the Pa's to deal with.

Good luck and good fishing.


----------



## JIG

Dont know if this has been asked but do you think there is any advantage dipseys over lead? I do ALOT of in-land trollin with only 2 rods out and have done well past year on lead. Wondering if dipseys would work as good at 1mph.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Okay to help Jim out a little, I'll give you all some advice when it comes to inline planer boards.

To start with, for rods I like to use 8' med. to med. heavy action rod. The key here is a rod that has a good butt and mid section strength but a light tip. The reason for this is when you fish Lake Erie or an inland lake and you get into the waves the rod can handle the waves better and it doesn't put so much stress on your rod holders. The long length also helps keep the line from the rod to the board up out of the water so you do not get a bow in it.

Onto the boards themselves, I personally run off shore boards. I have 6 boards and have set them all up with tattle flag kits. The basic principle behing them is if you catch a smaller fish the flag will drop back slightly or wiggle. Larger fish just pull the whole flag down and sometimes pull the board back. I like to run at least 4 boards so I can get a relationship of where they are all riding at, that way if one drops back or is running different I'll know from the other boards. I run fireline and lead core with these boards and have had no real problems with them. The main thing here is you want to use the red squeeze clips which are for the braided line. I double the line thru the clips to reduce the chance of the line slipping out of the clips. With the tattle flags you need to remember to leave an extra amount of line between the two clips so that the rear clip can be pulled back which pulls back the flag.

Okay hopefully you are still with me! Next is how to land fish or be able to run 4 or more boards at a time. Okay the easy one first, inside board just reel it in till the board is near the rod tip. Lift the board up out of the water and giving no slack line remove the clips, dropping the board into the boat, and proceed to fight fish. This will take some getting used to! Do not jerk on boards or try to reel them in to fast or else you stand the chance of having your line pull out of the clips!

The hardest one to do is the outside board! First you have to reel up the inside board. Once the board is up to the boat lift it and set the board into the back of the boat and lay the rod down. Your lure will still be in the water! Now go about reeling in the outside board and fighting your fish as usual, but keep the rod and fish towards the side of the boat so it doesn't tangle with your other line. After you have landed your fish, pick up the rod that was the inside rod and place the board in the water and let it out. This will now be your outside rod.

It sounds very complicated but once you've done it a few times it will be easy! Any other questions, feel free to ask or pm me.


----------



## Jim Stedke

JIG said:


> Dont know if this has been asked but do you think there is any advantage dipseys over lead? I do ALOT of in-land trollin with only 2 rods out and have done well past year on lead. Wondering if dipseys would work as good at 1mph.


 The advantage of Dipsys over lead would be fact that dipsys will pull off to the side a little. But to accomplish this the boats speed is ussually over 2mph. At slower speeds the Dipsys just collapse down, with very little pull to the side. 

At speeds of 1mph and only running 2 lines, you'd probably be better off by keeping it simple. Dipsys have 2-1/2 ozs of lead in them, so they are a sinker with added feature of the ability to pull off to the side a bit. 

I don't run Dipsys under 1.7 mph and most often it is up around 2.5 mph. 

I hope this helps, and good luck.


----------



## Jim Stedke

BIGHILLBILLY said:


> Okay to help Jim out a little, I'll give you all some advice when it comes to inline planer boards.
> 
> To start with, for rods I like to use 8' med. to med. heavy action rod. The key here is a rod that has a good butt and mid section strength but a light tip. The reason for this is when you fish Lake Erie or an inland lake and you get into the waves the rod can handle the waves better and it doesn't put so much stress on your rod holders. The long length also helps keep the line from the rod to the board up out of the water so you do not get a bow in it.
> 
> Onto the boards themselves, I personally run off shore boards. I have 6 boards and have set them all up with tattle flag kits. The basic principle behing them is if you catch a smaller fish the flag will drop back slightly or wiggle. Larger fish just pull the whole flag down and sometimes pull the board back. I like to run at least 4 boards so I can get a relationship of where they are all riding at, that way if one drops back or is running different I'll know from the other boards. I run fireline and lead core with these boards and have had no real problems with them. The main thing here is you want to use the red squeeze clips which are for the braided line. I double the line thru the clips to reduce the chance of the line slipping out of the clips. With the tattle flags you need to remember to leave an extra amount of line between the two clips so that the rear clip can be pulled back which pulls back the flag.
> 
> Okay hopefully you are still with me! Next is how to land fish or be able to run 4 or more boards at a time. Okay the easy one first, inside board just reel it in till the board is near the rod tip. Lift the board up out of the water and giving no slack line remove the clips, dropping the board into the boat, and proceed to fight fish. This will take some getting used to! Do not jerk on boards or try to reel them in to fast or else you stand the chance of having your line pull out of the clips!
> 
> The hardest one to do is the outside board! First you have to reel up the inside board. Once the board is up to the boat lift it and set the board into the back of the boat and lay the rod down. Your lure will still be in the water! Now go about reeling in the outside board and fighting your fish as usual, but keep the rod and fish towards the side of the boat so it doesn't tangle with your other line. After you have landed your fish, pick up the rod that was the inside rod and place the board in the water and let it out. This will now be your outside rod.
> 
> It sounds very complicated but once you've done it a few times it will be easy! Any other questions, feel free to ask or pm me.


BHB, You bite off a sizable chunk there, and did a nice job chewing it up. My daytime boards for Erie are also set up with Tattle Flags, but I've also put on the Snapper Releases the hold Fireline (just the front one), this eliminates the wrapping which I was never very good at. 

Night time boards have snappers but no Tattle Flags. For night fishing I like to eliminate anything that might possibly cause a tangle. 

Thanks and good luck.


----------



## Shortdrift

I don't find it necessary to bring the inside board completely into the boat. 
I'll reel the inside board within 20 feet of the boat while the outside board and fish swings around behind the boat. Having the board 20 feet away from the boat allows adequate room to land the fish on the outside board. It is now a simple matter of running the inside board out to replace the outside board if both are running the same program or bringing it in closer while you reset the outside board. Saves the time of completely re-setting two boards. Thought I would throw this in as it works well for me and others that I fish with.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Shortdrift said:


> I don't find it necessary to bring the inside board completely into the boat.
> I'll reel the inside board within 20 feet of the boat while the outside board and fish swings around behind the boat. Having the board 20 feet away from the boat allows adequate room to land the fish on the outside board. It is now a simple matter of running the inside board out to replace the outside board if both are running the same program or bringing it in closer while you reset the outside board. Saves the time of completely re-setting two boards. Thought I would throw this in as it works well for me and others that I fish with.


SD, Yep. I do the same thing, but there is no one right way to clear lines. Traffic, weather, direction relatize to wind, size of the hooked fish, all enter into it. 

One trick that I use most of the time is to turn the boat away from the fish 15 or 20 degrees. This creates more space behind the inside board, and maximizes the seperation, while still allowing the other lines to keep on fishing. 

It's all a matter of experience and what is comfortable for you and your boat. In forums like this you have to keep things fairly simplistic or you end up confusing as many people as you help. 

Thanks for looking in and adding to the discussion.

Good luck and good fishing.


----------



## K gonefishin

Hey Jim, 

I plan on putting together 2 leadcore combo's for walleye. what reels do you run and what backing are you using and what pound test on both core and backing..... so far I have a great lakes 47lc and spool of 18 pound core, what do you reccamend for rods and backing, how many colors do you spool and run, I plan on using this set up in the central and eastern basin's, mostly used with cranks and harnesses. 

Thanks. 


Kevin


----------



## Jim Stedke

K gonefishin said:


> Hey Jim,
> 
> I plan on putting together 2 leadcore combo's for walleye. what reels do you run and what backing are you using and what pound test on both core and backing..... so far I have a great lakes 47lc and spool of 18 pound core, what do you reccamend for rods and backing, how many colors do you spool and run, I plan on using this set up in the central and eastern basin's, mostly used with cranks and harnesses.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Kevin


Kevin, My first thought was go ahead and put full cores on the reels. If you want to run less than the 10 colors simply run the 2 lines as flatlines straight out the back. But if memeory serves me right the 47 has no room for backing with full cores.

I have attached in-lines directly to leadcore, to get 7 or 8 colors only in the lake and still use a board but with lead core from the rod tip to the board you can't get them out very far (but you don't need to either).

That's the trouble with leadcore. If you want 2 reels with 6 colors, 2 reels with 8 colors and 2 full core reels, like you probably should have for over there. you'd need 6 dedicated leadcore reels.

As a compromise and to use the 47s, I'd suggest putting 6 or 7 colors on the 47s with 35' leaders, and the most backinig you can fit on them, using a 20 or 30 pound superbraid for backing. You should be able to fit enough backing on those reels to make that work. 

If you want to get down to the 55' area in the summer, put a 2oz snap wt in the system somewhere. (a word of caution about snap wts on leadcore...you'll loose most of them if you use the clips. Try a rubber band instead. And just tear it off when it comes in).

Leadcore fishing requires slower speeds than I like to run, so I don't do a whole lot of it, but I'm well aware of it's fish catching ablity. 

Leadcore with Renowski's with the front hook removed is a killer combo over east. 

Good luck and good fishing.


----------



## JIG

In-land by removing the front hook keeps alot of lures in the box and more fish in the live well. I like lead when the water gets cold and only run 5ft of mono off that. With 4 colors I get down 15ft with small cranks but the outside board leaves me short. Most the time its just two lines off 2 in-line boards for turning. I was thinkin dipseys would work because the decrease in boat speed or turning makes the inside lines sink. Just what I like!  I know this year Ill have a full spool of lead for rollin 20ft. I would think itll work in shallow water with small Rapallas too. Just need a parnter to get 4 out! :T 
Thanks for the help!


----------



## K gonefishin

Thank Jim info is much appreciated. 


Yep the Renosky's are the big favorite out east I know some guys who live in new work, off core and dipsey's are number one thing in the water out east.


----------



## Mel

Do you only bend the eye of reef runners left or right or also to the front or rear? Also do you flatten or elongate the eye? what are the results if you do this? Thanks Mel


----------



## Jim Stedke

Mel said:


> Do you only bend the eye of reef runners left or right or also to the front or rear? Also do you flatten or elongate the eye? what are the results if you do this? Thanks Mel


Mel, For tuning left and right bending only. And just slighly so you don't evercorrect and have to bend it back (this weakens the eye)

The down turning and elongating like they do on the Renowskis along with taking off the front hook, makes that lure real snakie looking, but the Reef Runners and Rip Sticks both run at a much more defined head down tail up angle than the Renowski.

If I want to open up the action on any Reef Runner, I'll run it on 10/4 Fireline (which opens up the action about 30%) 

Also sometimes I'll add a flashaboo feathered or larger treble to the rear to bulk up the lure and give it an almost jointed look. 

When you start reshaping the line tie loop, you run the danger of the lure taking on water, which is a bad thing. If you're doing a bunch of them at home just dap some epoxy around the line tie to reseal, but on the water who wants to mess with epoxy.

Thanks for the interesting and revealing question. Hope this helps, and good luck.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

K gonefishin said:


> Hey Jim,
> 
> I plan on putting together 2 leadcore combo's for walleye. what reels do you run and what backing are you using and what pound test on both core and backing..... so far I have a great lakes 47lc and spool of 18 pound core, what do you reccamend for rods and backing, how many colors do you spool and run, I plan on using this set up in the central and eastern basin's, mostly used with cranks and harnesses.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Kevin


Kevin, 

I have 4 lead core rods that I run and I personally went with the Okuma combos that you can find at any of the spring fishing shows for around 60 to 80 bucks. I've been running them now for 4 years and have never had any problems with them. I have 150 yards of core on each reel and use dacron backing on them. 

One major piece of advice I will give you all for dealing with knots and lead core is to pull the fabric back exposing the lead and snip off the lead. I normally pull the fabric back about 2" and snip the lead out, then tie my knots. Leaving the lead in doesn't make it stronger, it only makes it harder and fatter when making your knots.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Jim Stedke said:


> BHB, You bite off a sizable chunk there, and did a nice job chewing it up. My daytime boards for Erie are also set up with Tattle Flags, but I've also put on the Snapper Releases the hold Fireline (just the front one), this eliminates the wrapping which I was never very good at.
> 
> Night time boards have snappers but no Tattle Flags. For night fishing I like to eliminate anything that might possibly cause a tangle.
> 
> Thanks and good luck.


Yes my nighttime boards do not have the tattle flags on them either. I found the little off shore flashers clearanced out at gander a while back so I bought 6 of them. These work great and with time you will learn how your boards run with different lures. Night fishing I've found that it is easier to run 2 boards on each side of the boat so you can compare the boards location with one another.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Shortdrift said:


> I don't find it necessary to bring the inside board completely into the boat.
> I'll reel the inside board within 20 feet of the boat while the outside board and fish swings around behind the boat. Having the board 20 feet away from the boat allows adequate room to land the fish on the outside board. It is now a simple matter of running the inside board out to replace the outside board if both are running the same program or bringing it in closer while you reset the outside board. Saves the time of completely re-setting two boards. Thought I would throw this in as it works well for me and others that I fish with.


Yes that will work also but it depends on the type of boat you are in. My boat sits lower to the water so I am unable to just let the outside board cross over the inside board. On the bigger / taller boats you should be able to do this. As a tournament fisherman where every fish could mean money I like to play it safe and just reel the inside board all the way up and set it in the back of the boat. This should eliminate all tangles and crossing lines.


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## Jim Stedke

Mike, 
1st reply (lead core) Dacron backiing will rot. After 4 years you'd better check them out. Any superbraid like PowerPro or any Spectra fiber line will not rot, and the smaller dia, gives you the ability to have more backing.

2nd reply In-line boards. The flashing lights bother my eyes, 3" glow sticks vip tied to the flag mast is good, but my favorite way to light the boards is with Thill Nite Brite replacemnet lights for bobbers. Thet run about 2.75 each, have an on/off , are waterproof and last around 40 hours. Drill a hole in the stiffener behind the flag, stick them in & off you go. They weigh next to nothing and the boards stay up right if they come off. 

3rd reply (board clearance) All the many on watrer variables effect what may be the best way to eliminate a tangle when catching a fish. I always try to maximize my chances of catching an other fish, and work at finding ways to keep lines fishing. In a sloppy lake with a money fish on, and possibly an inexperienced angler on the rod, I might even get the inside lure out of the water completly. But you are not going to catch another fish with a lure in the boat, so if at all possible I try to increase my odds for a double. 
Taking the outside rod to the opposite corner of the boat and keeping the rod tip pointes out and away from the inside rod, while turning 10 - 15 degrees away from the fish really opens up the space behind that inside line. (tournament style boat or big boat). In a tournament situation the next fish is just as important as this one. 

Thanks a bunch for your replies and keep them coming. The only thing better than talking fishin with a guy who is into it, is getting out on the water with him.

Good luck and good fishing.


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## BIGHILLBILLY

Sorry I forgot to add that I change all of the line on my reels every year. Including the backing. I know it sounds kinda strange but after watching the count less hours of tournaments (bass & walleye) I've learned to change my line at least every year. The bass guys will do it before every tournament! Sorry but I can't afford that! I also fish allot more then what most people do. I am on the water about 3 to 4 times a week so I like for my stuff to be in good shape.

Thanks for the info about the lights for the boards! I'll have to give that a try this summer cuz I was going to have to replace the batteries on my flashers anyways!


Now if we could only get rid of this ice and cold so we can get the boats out! Two weeks from now, last year, I had the boat out on the water and was already catching walleyes out at Mosquito!


----------



## Bait Dave

HOLY SMOKES, this has to be the fastest groing thread in OGF history. 

There are some superb fishermen that have become involved in this thread.

Jim, you must have a great sense of accomplishment and satisfaction when you hit the hay at night.
Guys are raving about this thread......this was a long overdue thread on this site and it shows..

Tite lines,
Bait Dave


----------



## Jim Stedke

Dave, Not really, you guys are saving alot of wear and tear on my walls (keeping me from bouncing off of them). LOL

It's kinda like having a house full of fishing friends, helping me pass the time. 

I know there are guys out there wanting to get involved, who, for whatevr reason, are not. Please, don't be bashful. There are enough guys looking at this that you're not going to run over me, so... jump in ...the more the better. 

I truely believe the only dumb questions, are the ones that don't get asked.

Thanks for the kind words ... I'm enjoying it.


----------



## Shortdrift

I could pick you up and bring you to my house. I have a pond on my patio with goldfish ranging from 1/2 to 2#. You could stay inside and fish through the opened (cracked) Bay window.  Sorry, catch and release only.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Shortdrift said:


> I could pick you up and bring you to my house. I have a pond on my patio with goldfish ranging from 1/2 to 2#. You could stay inside and fish through the opened (cracked) Bay window.  Sorry, catch and release only.


Shortdrift, I had a day on CJ Brown a few years back when I caught 5 carp in the mouth trollling little cranks...do you think we could put a trolling program together???


----------



## K gonefishin

Ron I'm be over around 7, what's for dinner? 

HILLBILLY, thanks for tips on the leadcore, I read some articles on how to tie the backing and leader to the core. I also heard fireline or power pro is better for backing than Dacron, for how much lead will get used I don't see myself changing it yearly, probably every 2 -3 years, power pro is every year mono twice per year. I pull boards like it's my job.


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## blue dolphin

K gonefishin said:


> Ron I'm be over around 7, what's for dinner?
> 
> HILLBILLY, thanks for tips on the leadcore, I read some articles on how to tie the backing and leader to the core. I also heard fireline or power pro is better for backing than Dacron, for how much lead will get used I don't see myself changing it yearly, probably every 2 -3 years, power pro is every year mono twice per year. I pull boards like it's my job.


Hey Kev i used a Micro swivel that i get at rodmakers that works great and fast for connecting the two together alot faster than splicing and tying a uniknot and just as strong to right through the eyes and reels no problem By the way i want in on franks 30ft and boat drinks lol talk to ya soon Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## Jim Stedke

Kgf, There'e a 3 part article at "the next bite" about leadcore that would be worth your time to try and find. I haven't been there for a while so you may have to search the archives.
The knot I use may be the some thing Bighillbilly is talking about because mine also starts out by taking about 2" of lead out of the sheath, then tie a loose figure 8 knot in the sheath as close to where the lead ends as possible. Then run your leader through both loops of the figure 8 knot, and pull through about 12'' of the leader. The loop the leader back down to the figure 8 knot, and make a 7 or 8 wrap cinch knot with the tag end of the leader up around the loop and the leadcoreand run the tag end through the loop at the bottom nearest the figure 8 knot. Pull it down gently but until it will slide on the lead core. Wet everything slide the cinch knot down the figure 8 knot, tighten the figure 8 knot, then tighten the cinch knot. 
The idea is to have the cinch knot act as taper right on top of the figure 8 knot to let everything slide into the tip top without hanging up. It's perfect when the cinch knot is right at the end of the lead inside the sheath, and figure 8 knot butts right up to it. Not the kind of knot you want to attempt on the water... it's hard enough at the dining room table.

Here's a link to the article, http://www.thenextbite.com/site/article.cfm?owner=F5B611D6-4BDB-4556-81141F2CC2091F66
They use a different knot.


----------



## K gonefishin

hey thanks guys, Gary I often wondered about that I use a small barrel to attach my floro leaders to my main line while steeleading and that's only using 6 and 8 pound not a 15 pound leader with 18 pd core I would think that would hold up just fine, even moreso if I'm not running 10 colors but only have 6-8 out. for salmon we go to the knot when running lead, little different for ol marble eyes 

I will look at the articles Jim thanks for finding it. 


Gary before spring we have to get together over some beers and or coctails.


----------



## Toolman

I have way too many leadcore set ups, too! At times have had (in pairs) 2, 3, 4, 5, and 10 colors. Now I've settled on pairs of 2, 4, and 10 as adequate. If I'm heading to Eastern Erie I'll have 6, 8 and 10 colors, though. There's a few ways to tie lead to backer and leader. I tie a back-to-back uni knot from backer to leadcore and use a #10 Spro swivel for the lead to leader. The small swivel reels right thru rod guides and makes changing leaders quick and easy, which is important depending on where you are running the lead and your presentation. Longer leaders for open, clear water like Erie and short leaders for contour trolling. For backing, I prefer braid for 5 or 10 colors and mono for 2 to 4 colors. A tip on lead rods. A rod with slightly slower action than typical board rods is a little more friendly yo keeping fish hooked up. Also, larger than normal line guides makes letting the lead out much easier, especially when it's dry (first pass). Lots of guys talk about the P&K rods being good for lead. I love them for boards/mono but IMO they are terrible for lead because the guides are so small.

Jim-Why am I not suprised that you are such an accomplished carp angler!!! :B  

On the board lite topic-I remember how much you (Jim) hated the blinking lights I used to have on my boards-I agree they hurt my head too! I've tried quite a few different board lite systems, including the blinking lites, glowsticks, Garrity glow lights, and the thill bobber lites rigged several ways I think I finally found a winner. There is a night bobber made (can't think of the manufacturer right now) that comes in both red and green (which I like for R and L boards). It's about normal bobber size (2" tall and tapers from approx 1/2" diameter on the ends to 1" in the middle. They run on 2 lithium batteries and have an on/off switch. The bobber stem is 1/4" x 1" and fits snugly into 1/4" holes I drilled into the front (solid) portion of my Offshore boards. Easy to put on and take off the board, it's well balanced (you put the flag down) and throws a nice bright (but not too bright) light. I'll post pics if anybody is interested.

Tim


----------



## Jim Stedke

Tim, Thanks for your input (I think). You'll pay for that carp comment!!


----------



## eyeangler1

Toolman~
I'd be interested in the manufacturer of those bobbers (and where you bought 'em )and a pic or two if you can. I have the flashing lights that clip on the flag but... if the board comes off the line it's tough to find the board as it's top heavy with the lite on it and it lays over... light down in the water!
Thanks. 
You can PM me if you wanna.


----------



## Guest

I use something simlar to toolman. It's a night bobber that I drill a hole in my board and they stick right in. Thrill is the brand. You can run four lights in them and they are plenty bight to see. I usualy only have to lights on a once and two for back up incase on start to go out. They are cheap and removable light source the does not hurt the board performance. I use the blinking one twice. That a no no.


----------



## fishingguy

I found an old tackle box I used in the mid 70"s. Opened it up and found quite a few hellbenders and spoonplugs. I use to be a Buck Perry spoonplugger if anyone remembers that. I even found a couple of those pink lady diving devices. What a blast from the past. Anyway, I just thought, wow, how the times have changed. I think I'm going to try some of those old lures this year, bet they still have a fish or two in them. Also in there was a suick musky lure about 10"es long, along with a few of those big musky spinners. I havn't fished for them in 30 years. Mr. Stedke, now you know some of my roots, what were your first experiences with trolling? Were you self taught or did you have a mentor of some sort?


----------



## Jim Stedke

fishingguy said:


> I found an old tackle box I used in the mid 70"s. Opened it up and found quite a few hellbenders and spoonplugs. I use to be a Buck Perry spoonplugger if anyone remembers that. I even found a couple of those pink lady diving devices. What a blast from the past. Anyway, I just thought, wow, how the times have changed. I think I'm going to try some of those old lures this year, bet they still have a fish or two in them. Also in there was a suick musky lure about 10"es long, along with a few of those big musky spinners. I havn't fished for them in 30 years. Mr. Stedke, now you know some of my roots, what were your first experiences with trolling? Were you self taught or did you have a mentor of some sort?


 My dad bought our 1st boat in '62, after chartering Si & Doris Heppard out of Channel Grove about 6 times through the late 50's. We fished with dad in good health for 2 years, he got cancer in '64 and died in '66. I remember a Summer day in '64 when we caught 13 walleyes on Chickenaola (that was a nearly unbelievable catch). We were running out of worms and dad put a pork frog on behind his Junebug Spinner and caught a walleye on that. We thought it just couldn't get better than that.

We were died in the wool wt. forward fishermen (favorite lures were Parrish Lures) . My brothers and I won several tournaments in the 90's on wt forwards, but when the zebra muscles changed the lake, we were forced to try trolling. 

Up to then, quite honestly, we thought trollers were just 1 small step ahead of sexual deviants.

But we found out that trolling can be just as challenging, exciting & interesting as casting. 

We were completely self taught, and I can still remember how relieved I was the first time, my 2 brothers and I went trolling, and things went well. 

We worked together all our lives in a family owned comercial - industrial construction company, and all of us are mechaanically minded. So the physics parts of it are second nature to us. 

Brother Rich now owns and operates a charter business running a 32' Marinette Grand Sportsman, and he has designed and built his rocket launchers, masts - boards & retrieval system, and his rod holders. 

I've been a sponsored pro fishing walleye tournaments since '94. I've fished in a total of 96 walleye tournamnets, 13 firsts, 43 top five places, 61 top ten finishes & 8 big fish awards. State Champion for USFA Team Walleye in 2000 & 
2001 and USFA Nat'l Champion in 1995. 

(I don't mean to brag but I keep these stats for sponsors, so ....)

My experience in Lake Erie walleye fishing in both charter style and tournament style boats is extensive, and I do this kind of stuff to help others be successful, and maximize their enjoyment of our wonderful fishery.

I've been speaking at the Cleveland Boat Show since '84, and have done somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 seminars, and 3 day long colleges. 

Now you know where I came from, and probably way more than you really wanted to know.

Good luck & good fishing.


----------



## fishingguy

13 walleye's in one day in 1964! That was an outstanding day! Back than we didn't much bother with walleye, except for an occasional trip to Vermillion area. Population {walleye} wasn't very high, or maybe we just didn't get it back than. I also was a weight forward guy. Made and sold quite a few back in the 70's. I called it the eyestopper. Do you remember a baitshop on rt. 2 in Curtice Oh. called Don's bait. We had our camper there for years. Does anybody know Don and Irma?


----------



## Jim Stedke

Nope we went up throught Fostoria, & I doubt I was ever in Curtis. We had the 28' wood Chris Craft at Channel Grove for several years, then the covered docks at Bar Harbor & around 70 we bought a trailer and always had it at West Harbor Lagoons. We just sold the old trailer a couple months ago. 
Folks called it the world's largest tackle box because it was full of fishing gear.

We must be getting old.... next we'll be discussing bowel movements. LOL


----------



## blue dolphin

K gonefishin said:


> hey thanks guys, Gary I often wondered about that I use a small barrel to attach my floro leaders to my main line while steeleading and that's only using 6 and 8 pound not a 15 pound leader with 18 pd core I would think that would hold up just fine, even moreso if I'm not running 10 colors but only have 6-8 out. for salmon we go to the knot when running lead, little different for ol marble eyes
> 
> I will look at the articles Jim thanks for finding it.
> 
> 
> Gary before spring we have to get together over some beers and or coctails.


Kev sounds great beers before spring helps ease the pain ill call ya soon gary


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## fugarwi7

EDIT...Okay, after seeing my post, I guess I'm a little late with this comment, but I'll leave it in...

I connect my leadcore to leaders and backing (both mono or flouro) in a slightly different manner...strong knot and have yet to loose a fish due to knot failure...have caught several salmon up to 25-30#'s, so I know it will hold up to Erie species. I slide about 4 inches of dacron back to remove lead, then I tie a loose double wrap knot at end of dacron, then I feed the leader into the dacron until it abuts the lead, then just cinch it down so the knot is almost at the ned of the dacron edge...clean, tidy and strong knot with no tag ends exposed.

It does take some patience feeding the leader all the way in but I think it is worth it when finished.


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## Jim Stedke

Actually that method had not been dicussed, and I know it works, but for life of me I can't get the mono inside the sheath, so i do it my way, and I've never had a failure either. 

Old trappers know better than most that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

Thanks for the input, and good luck.


----------



## Toolman

Here's a couple pics of the night light system (if I can get them to post). I still haven't come up with the name of the company but Wal-Mart sells them.


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## Toolman

I haven't run this system yet, but I'm positive this system will be easier to see, has a better on/off switch than the Thill bobber lights (mine seemed to quit working after a few uses) and will run upright even at VERY slow speeds or stalled turns, which most "flag mount" lights will not....they tend to fall over. I think this bobber is made by "American Angler"? They run on 2 replacable Ni-cad batteries.

Tim


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## Jim Stedke

Tim, Mark used some like that, that mounted on the stem of the flag. They caused the board to be top heavy, and he was not very satisfied with the battery life or cost.

I saw some little led lights at Sears that intested me but thet were pricey, and only produced white light in one direction.

Thanks for the input, and talk to you soon.


----------



## Toolman

Hey Jim...sorry about the carp comment.  You know I couldn't resist. I have one coming now, I suppose!  

Obviously, I won't know for sure until I get these on the water, so this may be premature, but my gut feeling is that these will run pretty good. The lights (bobbers) are very light and shouldn't tip the boards. I really like the "twist" on/off switch and the replaceable battery option. Also they can be "plugged in" to the board in a matter of seconds (if I can find them come trolling time)!  

Is it spring yet??? I may have to dig out that dang ice auger!

Tim


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## eyeangler1

Thanks Tim! I'll pick up 4 of 'em. They can't be any worse than the flag lights made by offshore. I may even try adding a bit of weight to the bottom to balance the weight on top. Don't know how much that would affect performance. We'll see!
Thanks again.
Bill


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## Hetfieldinn

Here is the best board light system I've seen yet. ShortDrift taught me this one last fall. You drill a 5/32" hole in the top of the board, and install a Lindy Nite Brite lighted replacement battery (about $2.50 a pair), and stick it in the hole. They weigh absolutely nothing, and you can see it a mile away.


Here's the lighted battery next to a quarter


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## Hetfieldinn

Here it is in the board, in a semi dark room.


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## Hetfieldinn

Here's a pic of it in the board


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## Hetfieldinn

If I remember correctly, we got about three trips out of each light.


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## Jim Stedke

Yep, That's the Thill Nite Brite bobber light, that I mention a couple days ago. Like Toolman Tim said ... sometimes the slide collar/switch goes kafooy, but you talk about simply and easy ...it can't get simpler than that.

Outstanding job of showing the lttle guy and how it works. 

Thank you for your input & interest. Good luck and good fishing.


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## Toolman

Het,

I like the size/weight and the red/green color availability of the Thill bobber lite (I used them all of last year) but the brightness is just barely adequate (or worse) in cold conditions. Also, like Jim mentioned, the on/off contacts seem to wear out quickly (maybe I expected too much for $3)! 

I finally remembered the name of what I posted...they are called "Night Bobby". Basicaly priced the same as the Thill bobbers ($3). The twist on/off switch w/ tension spring "feels" like it will last. I'll let you know after a few spring nite trips and the fall bite! I haven't got a close look at the Offshore flag lite, but these Night Bobbys may be the basis of the design. Placed up that high on the flag could cause tipping problems at slow speeds. That's why I installed them as I did. 

C'mon Spring!

Tim


----------



## ezmarc

All of those methods will work. The Thills if they were more reliable would be the absolute best. Most will last for days but I've had some fail within an hour or so. 

The Night Bobby's that Toolman is going to use work OK too (I rigged them to fit a radio microphone holder) but I've put them away. They drain battery's like crazy and unless you buy your battery's off the net you'll pay a premium for them. The chemical light sticks work great in the warmer weather but in frigid December they don't light up well but will last for days at a time.

I've finally settled on the 7-8" led lights from Walmart as my preferred method. The Blue is super easy on the eyes and a simple rubber band holds them on the top of the board horizontally. So far they have lasted me at least 6 trips each. The white one also works as a back up stern light, general lamp and is a great warning devise if twirled on a 12 to 14" string. 

Some of you guys run red lights on one side and green on the other. All that does for me is to confuse me on which way your boat is heading. Keep your green up front please.


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## angler2002

Mr. Stedke

I am looking to buy a new fish finder and have been looking at the Lowrance 510 and the Eagle 640. 

The question I had was concerning the cone angle and frequency of the fish finders. I have seen that most of them come with a 200kHz frequency and a 20 degree Cone. Some offer the dual frequency of 50kHz and 200kHz with a 35 degree and 12 degree cones. Which of these do you prefer and when is one better than another. I will primarily be fishing Lake Erie (central basin) and inland lakes.

I was also wondering if the 2400 w peak to peak power is better than the 1500 w or if it is just over kill for the type of fishing I will be doing.

thanks


----------



## fugarwi7

angler2002 said:


> Mr. Stedke
> 
> I am looking to buy a new fish finder and have been looking at the Lowrance 510 and the Eagle 640.
> 
> The question I had was concerning the cone angle and frequency of the fish finders. I have seen that most of them come with a 200kHz frequency and a 20 degree Cone. Some offer the dual frequency of 50kHz and 200kHz with a 35 degree and 12 degree cones. Which of these do you prefer and when is one better than another. I will primarily be fishing Lake Erie (central basin) and inland lakes.
> 
> I was also wondering if the 2400 w peak to peak power is better than the 1500 w or if it is just over kill for the type of fishing I will be doing.
> 
> thanks


Same questions here...However, I do fish alot in the Georgian Bay and Lake Ontario also, which is much deeper than Erie. I was looking at the 515 Dual cone model.


----------



## blue dolphin

I know that when i went night fishing with Scott Bower he used these glo sticks with a zip tie and they worked great could see them for a long ways and i think they are really cheap to he gets them online i think. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## Jim Stedke

fugarwi7 said:


> Same questions here...However, I do fish alot in the Georgian Bay and Lake Ontario also, which is much deeper than Erie. I was looking at the 515 Dual cone model.


 The 50 Khz transducer show you a much larger area, than the 200 Khz. So if you are looking for detail (like a ledge, creek channel, rock pile or a little 2' drop off that holds perch most of the time) you'll want to use a 200Khz transducer. 

Contrasting if you are looking for fish in open water, the 50 Khz is going to give you a much larger look at what's under you. 

The units I'm used to running have dual frequency transducer, with split screen capabilities, so we have had the opportunity of side by side comparison. 

Generally speaking we run the units at 200 Khz when looking for fish. This eliminates the problem of thinking your on a good concentration, when in reality the number of marks is a function of the huge area your looking at. 

Then when we actually start fishing, we go to the 50 Khz, to get a feel for where the best concentrations are, and gain the advantage of seeing more fish to determine best depth to target.

The 50 Khz transducers will work at much deeper depths, but on erie there's no problem with 200 Khz units finding bottom. 

Being a Raymarine pro staffer, I encourage people to use their products, but additional I'll say that the Raymarine digital technology and their bright sun viewable color screens, are the best I've seen. 

I hope this helps, good luck and good fishing.

There are others looking over this page who are much more technically up to snuff on fish finders than I (HEY STEVE ... step in if you think it may be helpful) and they may have something to add.


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## Fish-Crazy

The best option I found to date concerning the lights for te boards are the Battery operated LED Glo Lites. They are the size of a glow stick and have an on/off switch. At $ 2.50 a pice I get 10 to 20 trips out of one, even more if I use the blinking mode, that is the cheapest, best way I found to light up the boards. They are very bright, strap them to the boards with heavy duty rubber bands (have the batteries towards the back). Don't try to rplace the batteries since they are glued tight, and it would be more expensive anyway. You'll find one here and there that will act up, or take water, but regardless, once you use them you'll find them to be the most cost effective by far. Wall Mart has them, but not to often!

Tght Lines!

Fish-Crazy: Capt. Virgil D. Tent


----------



## Jim Stedke

I assume you mean a 5" glow stick, and you attach to the top edge of the board. 

I haven't seen them, but they sound very interesting. I'll be looking for them. 

Thanks for the input, and COME ON SPRING


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## ezmarc

I think he means the 7-8 inch sticks. The blue color is my favorite and very easy on the eyes.


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## Jim Stedke

Duh? Yea ... Thanks Marc. Must have just taken a pain pill. Yea!! That's it. LOL


----------



## blue dolphin

Jim Stedke said:


> I assume you mean a 5" glow stick, and you attach to the top edge of the board.
> 
> I haven't seen them, but they sound very interesting. I'll be looking for them.
> 
> Thanks for the input, and COME ON SPRING


Ya Jim there about 5 inches If scotty sees this he might be able to help out on where he got them and how much. He put them on the base of the flag with a Zip tie. some of them last for a couple days . thought they worked great. No overdosing on pain pills alot of people need ya on here lol. take care gary


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## Jim Stedke

Thanks Gary ! This is a truely mutually beneficial situation. Trueth be told, I may be getting more benefit than anyone else, it's been a great diversion.


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## Jim Stedke

I'll be heading for Akron soon (2-3/4 hr drive). I'll be back later, and get caught up. In the mean time some of the experienced guys may step in and cover for me. 

I appreciate the questions, and the answers. Later. Jim


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## BIGHILLBILLY

No problem Jim! You won't be to far from me! Have a safe trip!


----------



## Toolman

Are you guys talking about the Garrity LED glowsticks? I've used these too, and found that about 50% of them have a switch failure in short order. The good news is that if you demo them and recover the batteries they work in my new Bobby Lights ...which may be a good thing from what Marc has said!! Maybe I should discontinue my search for the "perfect" night lite.  

Tim


----------



## ezmarc

You're probably right Tim. No such thing available, so it's good to have some choices.

Yeah the Garrity's are what I've been using lately(with no failures) but I'm always lookin for options.

Spooner likes the small blinking jewelry lights. the blinking isn't nearly as annoying as the bigger Offshores are plus you can get several colors.


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## fishon

Kgone and I have been using those for 3+ seasons now... Green and White seemed to be the brightest for our use... we too just use a Zip tie to the flag and good for min @ least 10 to 12 nite trips.... every time i see them @ wallmart i buy 8 to 10 @ time.. we use to use the old snap kinds of glow stick but each stick was 3 dollars and only last 6 hours @ best ..that got expensive very quick going out 3 to 4 times a week... spent morte on glow sticks than gas...LOL so i ran into these back in End of 2003 and we have been very happy with them .. id say 1 out 8 are shottey.. or retain some water... not bad odds considering.... great thing is .. is that other nite time trollers can see them very well .. helps out on them crowed nights off of the 72nd area @ times.(we will *not* get into that)... or which i beleive is the best attribute of these Garrity lights is that they very *easy to read* for newbies aboard to see the board go back and tell if there is a Fish ON as well....

this has been a great thread! keep it up! and keep warm gentilmen!

Frank


----------



## honey

Gary, I agree, 3 years ago we went off of Huron in Oct. We must have caught 70 fish that day but every one of our biggest came off Eriedescent back 150 plus 50 off 2ounces. Same lure,same rod. Not believable but that one rod accounted for a 13,12.5,12.3,11.3,11.1. Everyone that fishes Erie has those days that will not be believed if you are not there!


----------



## honey

Everytime I try to post to a particular thread it kicks me to the last thread and unlogs me do you guys know what is up? My post was originially to thread Garys on 138. Honey


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## blue dolphin

Toolman said:


> Are you guys talking about the Garrity LED glowsticks? I've used these too, and found that about 50% of them have a switch failure in short order. The good news is that if you demo them and recover the batteries they work in my new Bobby Lights ...which may be a good thing from what Marc has said!! Maybe I should discontinue my search for the "perfect" night lite.
> 
> Tim


Timmy the one im talking about that scott used was one that you shook up really well and then kinda broke in half but just to activate it not really broke and they glow like crazy. WHen i get a cahnce ill call scott and tell him to post on here on where he gets them and how much take care gary


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## blue dolphin

honey said:


> Gary, I agree, 3 years ago we went off of Huron in Oct. We must have caught 70 fish that day but every one of our biggest came off Eriedescent back 150 plus 50 off 2ounces. Same lure,same rod. Not believable but that one rod accounted for a 13,12.5,12.3,11.3,11.1. Everyone that fishes Erie has those days that will not be believed if you are not there!


Ya honey its a great set up always has worked for me im gald you had that great of day with that program its a awseome fishery take care gary zart blue dolphin


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## Jim Stedke

honey said:


> Everytime I try to post to a particular thread it kicks me to the last thread and unlogs me do you guys know what is up? My post was originially to thread Garys on 138. Honey


 That's just the way they do it here. Click on the quote button and the post you are replying to will copied at the top of your response


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## ezbite

i had a problem with the weight on my dipseys moving last year. it seemed like the bottom plate would pull away from the top plate where the weight was or it would shift and we would have to keep tightening the screw. so here's what im doing. i removed the bottom plate roughed up the inside with sandpaper used 2 part marine epoxy to put them back together. i put the screw back in then used 3 clamps to hold them together at 3.5 (one for the left side of the boat and one for the right). here's my question has anyone else had this problem and did you use something else to glue them together, did you glue them together? i thought about just running a nut and bolt thur them but that wouldn't solve the problem of the weight pulling away. i plan on epoxing the rings to these 2 only because they are the outside ones and this thread said i'll get a few more feet of seperation.

any thoughts from anybody or am i going to the extreme?


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## Jim Stedke

ezb, We have had some trouble with the bottom plate working loose and moving, but never coming apart. 
Shoe Goo or some other vinyl type & waterproof adhesive will last longer than the epoxy. They get knocked around so much that any glue that gets rock hard doesn't hold very long. 

The early clear Dipsy sometimes took on water which changed their dive characteristics, and messed up the spread. I've not seen that for the last 2 years.

Here's a tip for you. When you buy new ones, weigh them and use the heavier ones for the inside and lighter ones for the high (outside divers). We've found that they can vary near 3/8ths of an ounce. 

I believe it's just as easy to put the rings on all of them, and learn them that way. I hope the new Deeper Divers from Walker will eliminate the ring troubles.

Thanks for the post, and good luck.


----------



## Bob Why

Just add a bigger screw. Or put epoxy in the screw hole.


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## Jim Stedke

This must be an issue of overtightening, which I could easily understand if you reset the dipsys on every outing. 

We have not had the problem, because we never readjust the Dipsy after getting it set the way we want it, at the start of the season. In fact we never remove them from the rods. The rods are marked P1, P2, P3, P4, S1, S2, S3, & S4 for Port 1 - 4 and Starboard 1-4. The Dipsys are marked as well, and so are the rod holders. So if we have S3 & S4 out of the water because of caught fish, and you find yourself setting a Dipsy without being certain which one it is ...all you have to do is look at rod just above the foregrip and the number is there. Anything to eliminate potential tangles on a chartrer boat.


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim Stedke said:


> This must be an issue of overtightening, which I could easily understand if you reset the dipsys on every outing.
> 
> We have not had the problem, because we never readjust the Dipsy after getting it set the way we want it, at the start of the season. In fact we never remove them from the rods. The rods are marked P1, P2, P3, P4, S1, S2, S3, & S4 for Port 1 - 4 and Starboard 1-4. The Dipsys are marked as well, and so are the rod holders. So if we have S3 & S4 out of the water because of caught fish, and you find yourself setting a Dipsy without being certain which one it is ...all you have to do is look at rod just above the foregrip and the number is there. Anything to eliminate potential tangles on a chartrer boat.


Jim,
Where and how do you mark your Dipsey especially if it is black in color?
Thanks,
Ron


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## BIGHILLBILLY

I personally use paint pens on mine. White ones show up on all colors really good and don't wear off to quickly.


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## Hetfieldinn

I've had the bottom screws loosen, come out, and even loose the bottom plate.

Last season, I started using Super Glue Gel, and gluing them into postion. A couple glued at the #3 postion, a few at 1 1/2, and a few at zero. It worked out well.


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## Jim Stedke

Buckeye Ron said:


> Jim,
> Where and how do you mark your Dipsey especially if it is black in color?
> Thanks,
> Ron


 White Diecom (sp?) paint pens. Shows up great.


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## Jim Stedke

Hetfieldinn said:


> I've had the bottom screws loosen, come out, and even loose the bottom plate.
> 
> Last season, I started using Super Glue Gel, and gluing them into postion. A couple glued at the #3 postion, a few at 1 1/2, and a few at zero. It worked out well.


 Het, If it ain't busted don't fix it, but on the charter boat, stuff gets put to the test ... and the vinyl type glues that don't get rock hard seem to work the best.


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> This must be an issue of overtightening, which I could easily understand if you reset the dipsys on every outing.
> 
> 
> The Dipsys are marked as well, .




no not overtightened, they just seem to work loose. i did plan on designating each rod a dipsey this year to see how that works. i get tired of looking at the bottom of each dipsey to see where i want to put it. i think mark them with a paint pen and shoe goo them i'll be set.


by the way the one i epoxied last night was set solid. so i hit the bottom with a screwdriver a few times and it broke loose. im going with the shoe goo..


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## Jim Stedke

Dipsys do take a beating, especially when the rods are handled by novices who have never fished with them before like on a charter boat. 

I'm glad you had the failure at home in Feb. rather than out on the water in June right in the middle of a hot bite.


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## Toolman

I was just browsing the Offshore site. Do the board lights in this link look familiar (scroll down on the link)? 
http://www.offshoretackle.com/boards.htm

I'm not a Physics professor, but I'm pretty sure the lite mounted close to the board will run better at slow speeds than the lite mounted at the top of the flag. 

Tim


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## Jim Stedke

Yes, Those are the ones Mark had that ate batteries pretty bad. 

And I'm sure you're right getting them off the flag pole would have to lessen the rollover.

Thanks for posting the site.


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## Jim Stedke

This is an attempt to give guys some info on the diferences between mono and superbraids on planer bd rods.
Mono is the easiest to use because the stretch is there that cushions the fish, it's more forgiving and frankly requires less skill to put the fish in the boat. It coordinates best with precision trolling, and is less expensive. 
Superbraids give you the ability to read the rod tip for weeds, the finer ones provide increased depth and action, but they are tricky, requiring less drag pressure, and most would advise the use of longer softer rods to reduce rip offs. 
But it goes further than that. With big boards the superbraids catch alot more wind then mono, and this can easily lead to problems. As you set lines and allow the line to slide down the tow line, going down wind the bag that the wind blows into your line can get so big that it drops down into the water, and wraps under the tow line. If you don't notice this and set additional lines you'll end up having to pull the board to untangle the lines. In addition when fishing downwind, the bag in the set lines can too close to the towline allowing loose clips to catch them and again wrap them up on the tow line, again requiring you to pull the board.
This late summer and early fall, out of Lorain, my brother Rich on his charter boat ran braid (30/8 PowerPr0) on one side and mono (12# Big Game) on the other for 6 weeks, pulling cranks (mostly Reef Runners). He kept tabs on the catch and the mono outfished the braid just over 3 to 1. Pretty stricking.
After much thought, his only explanation has to do again with the stretch. He noticed that most of the braid line fish were hooked right in the very tip of the nose, while at the same time, the mono fish would have the lures much deeper. 
His thought is that the fish come in from behind to check out the lures, and nudge the lures with their mouth. When they push on the braid line lures, the lures stop wobbling and collapse (very unnaturally), and the fish, if not hooked, swims away.
When the fish does the exact something to the mono lures the stretch in the mono is there and allows the lure to continue to wobble and act more naturally, so the walleye continues it's attack, taking the lure deeper.

Please understand, I have no axe to grind, and it makes no diference to me what line you use, but these are just some of the reasons in only use braid for Dipsys or when there is some benefit to be gained.

COME ON SPRING!!!


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## fishingguy

Again great advice! For me, I plan on starting the year in the western basin and moving east with the fish until they get to my area {Wildwood}. I will start the year with mono, since the plan is cranks off boards. Than at some point change to braid to run dipsy's. I got more time than money, so I won't by more rods and reels, just change line when it becomes necessary. Sound about right? Any suggestions?


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## MadMac

Jim Stedke said:


> His thought is that the fish come in from behind to check out the lures, and nudge the lures with their mouth. When they push on the braid line lures, the lures stop wobbling and collapse (very unnaturally), and the fish, if not hooked, swims away.
> When the fish does the exact something to the mono lures the stretch in the mono is there and allows the lure to continue to wobble and act more naturally, so the walleye continues it's attack, taking the lure deeper.


This is very interesting. I've been giving a lot of thought lately as to why I should fish with mono at all. Could you explain in more detail as to why the braid line lures would stop wobbling and collapse due to being nudged from behind. I'm having a hard time picturing this and why stretchy mono would help. After all, it's from behind so it shouldn't be stretching.


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## Jim Stedke

Even the pull of the lure inparts stretch on the mono, and as the walleye nudges the lure from behind the stretched mono only shrinks slightly so there is still some action to the lure, which is much more natural. 

With braid the only stretch is at the rubber band attached to the release. Tiny by comparison.

I hope that helps.


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## MadMac

Yeah, I think I see what you're saying. The mono would still have some tension on it. Thanks Jim.


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## once was

Do You find any advantage to direction of your troll? I feel I do the best if I troll with the wind. Makes boat control harder but I think I have better results. Don't know if the walleye find it that the wind blows the baitfish and makes them easier prey or if it is easier for them to face the current from the blow and your lures move toward them from the front and not from the rear. Curious if you have any observations on this. 
Thanks Gary
By the way I am just learning the trolling game on Erie and this has been great.


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## harle96

Birds face the wind....and fish face current.


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## Jim Stedke

With or into the wind is kind of a realative thing. I hardly ever try to go striagth down wind and I never attempt to go striaght into it. 15 or 120 degrees off down wind or into it makes boatcontrol much easier. For smaller boats downwind is always easier. Most days there are not significant diferences in catch rates. 

On those days when into the wind seems better, I think it's the diference in the lures action that makes a diference. into the waves puts a much more herky jerky action on the lures and I think that's the diference (especially in the islands area). 

Over east where currents are more common it may be a matter of the fish all heading one way, I honestly tend to pay more attention to direction east of Huron. 

Try this ... on those days when they seem to only bite going down wind, speed up going into the wind, I mean to the point that you think you've got to be going too fast. When you've run a speed at depth unit off a downrigger you learn that most guys don't throttle up enough going into the wind. 

Conversly if they only want to bite going into the wind, back off more going down wind. Sometimes that seems to help. 

There's no pat answer to this question, just like there's no answer to why is it that at times ony 1 side of the boat catches. I think the current plays a role sometimes, but I also think the current gets blamed too often.

Ihope this helps, and good luck.


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## Jim Stedke

harle96 said:


> Birds face the wind....and fish face current.


 I agree, fish face the current, but are they more likely to attack a lure that they see coming or one that surprises them from the rear??? That's what no one knows.


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## eyesman_01

And I mean *all* of you. I'm new at navigating my way around this site, but everywhere I go I'm finding more info than my brain can absorb at one time.

I've only fished Erie the past 4 or 5 years, and then only a few times a year. Being the passenger, my experience has been limited to jigging and bottom bouncer/spinners through spring mostly west of the islands. 

In my own (smaller) boat, I fish for walleye in my local lakes all season long with decent success, mostly jigging, drifting, and casting. My trolling has been limited to longlining spinners or crankbaits with snap weights. I haven't tried the boards.

I've now acquired an older (but still solid) 18' Starcraft Holiday (aluminum deep-V,closed bow w/walk (climb) thru windshield, 120 stern drive) I'm going to set up for walleye fishing on Erie. Experience over the past few years, and lots of research on the internet, I thought I had an idea of what I wanted to do... mast system, dual boards, downriggers, plenty of rod holders...

After reading many threads on this site, I have rarely seen anything mentioned about masts or downriggers. Mechanically gifted, (more skills than money), I've started making my own units, but now I'm wondering if I really need them.

I guess my question is: I'd just like some input as to how some of you would set up a boat like this. Do you prefer the inlines over the mast system? Snap weights and dipseys over downriggers? I really want to get into trolling. I need to add a larger fuel tank and a livewell. My thoughts lean toward the Navigator engine mount trolling motor, though it does already have a kicker bracket installed.

The past 3 years I just completely built/rebuilt a 16' Cherokee from a runabout to an open bow, dual console, all new floors and front deck (which I rarely used the front deck) 90hp Johnson (35mph), etc., etc.. It has served me well on my local lakes, and the type of fishing I do here, but I figured it was too small for Erie. 

Being able to alter the Starcraft to suit my needs is not a problem, but I don't want to add things that aren't needed and just weigh me down. Most of you are much more experienced on the big water than I, I'm just looking for ideas, must-haves, personal preferences... It'll give me a fresh insight to what I'm doing.

Thanks in advance for all input. It is very appreciated.

By the way, the Cherokee is available.

Thanks,

Brian


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## Jim Stedke

Hey Brian, The first thing you need to ask yourself is, how many am I going to take fishing. If 4 or less a good starting point would be in line boards, and Dipsys. Then I'd suggest Jets before riggers. I'd also forgo the live well as fish that you keep for eating are much better put on ice, in a cooler.
Rod holders should be 9 or 10 inches apart and located where they are easily accessible even in rough water, but not where you want to get in and out of the boat, and not way at the back either. 
The Navigators are pricey and for actual open water trolling you be better off picking up a used 10 - 15 hp kicker. The Navigator just won't give you the ability to turn into the wind, that you will sometimes want.
The best advise I can give you is to get together with someone who trolls and get out there and gain a little experience before you go hog wild. 
Good luck... it should be a great yearto learn (lots of fish).


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## eyesman_01

OOOPS! *Fishingguy* just reminded me (THANKS)... I live in NE Indiana so the main area of Erie I'll be fishing is the Western Basin, starting with Maumee Bay the end of March and working my way east. I've never been further east than the islands, but there's always a first time. 

Average 2-3 people fishing, 4 isn't out of the question though. Most of the time around home I'm out by myself. I'm pulling out the lounge (back to back) seats and putting the driver's and passenger seat on pedestals to make more room. Then there is a seat on each side of the engine cover. Gas (18 gal) tank under one and starting battery under the other. Plan to put 2 more batteries (for accessories) in the bow to distribute some of the weight. Want a bigger fuel tank, or just add another, somewhere. I haven't had this boat out yet to know how well it does on gas. I'm waiting for it to warm up enough to get it out on our lake to work out any bugs (if any) before I even try Lake Erie.

I have a Matrix 20 fishfinder/GPS and an ICOM radio, so the bare basics in electronics are taken care of. I know the Matrix isn't the best, but it was affordable at the time. This will be the 3rd boat I've had it on, hopefully I'll keep this one a while.

I still have a Merc 7.5 I had on a Jon boat I thought about using for a kicker. Pull start and I'll have to rig up controls. A buddy of mine wanted to buy it. If he comes through I'll look for an electric start model with controls.

I agree about going with someone who knows what they're doing. With any luck I will have that opportunity at the Turtle Creek gathering.

So far you're making this very easy. A bare bones boat with carry on luggage. I agree with the cooler. I've been wondering where to mount a permanent livewell anyway.

What are your thoughts in general on the planer mast system? Is there a specific application when you would prefer this over the inlines?

Hope you don't mind, I'm gonna pick everybody's brain. I crave knowledge, and I'm like a sponge... I soak it up and learn fast.

Thanks for the reply. Other's welcome. 

Brian


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## Jim Stedke

The only time a mast and big boards would be beneficial would be with 4 on board at a time of year when Dipsys weren't a viable option (early and late). Through the summer 2 or 3 jets off in-lines on the outside and 1 or 2 Dipsys inside them on each side, will catch you all the walleyes your freezer will hold.


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
I spoke with a gentleman today at the Boat & Travel Show in Columbus about trolling for Walleye, he is a Captain on Lake Michigan. In our talking about different things, he suggested taking off the front hook on Rapalas and Reef Runners because of the higher probability of losing the fish because of the front hook hooking on the side of the fish and thus causing the back hook to come out of the mouth of the fish. Also, he suggested putting the small ring on the Scorpion spoons to give them more movement in the water. Your comments on this please
Thanks,
Ron


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## Jim Stedke

Ron, I've removed the front hooks on Renowski stick baits but it alters the action. I've never removed the front hooks to aid in catch ratio and doubt that it would be effective. 

We use alot of Scorpions all summer and don't add a split ring, but we do use a round bottom snap to attach the spoon to the leader.

Many fishermen come up with quirky liitle ideas that they take to heart, I never argue about them, but neither do I accept them at face value.

Good luck & good fishing.


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## Bluefinn

Hi guys, great thread.I mostly perch fish, but did troll dipseys a few times last summer & did good.I just have two linecounters & ran a dipsey off each side & flatlined straight back. All we caught on the flatlines were white bass. I read somewhere that jets don't pull as hard as dipseys & I could use my regular bass medium action rods with fireline.If I got two 30 jets & let out 100 feet of line according to the tech sheet straight back, would this work? Jets don't have a trip, correct? How is it cranking jets in? With & without A fish on them ?


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## Jim Stedke

Get the 30 Jets. They upset easier than the 20s and are actually easier to retrieve with a fish than the 20s. Check the Jets for tracking straight, and if they want to pull off to the side, run them so they pull away from each other. Should save you some tangles. Jets run with Dipsys are a deadly combination. Good luck and good fishing.


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## fugarwi7

Jim Stedke said:


> Jets run with Dipsys are a deadly combination. Good luck and good fishing.


Did I mis-interpret this statement?
Jim, I hope you mean 4 lines, dipsys on two and jets on two and not jets attached behind dipsys. If that is not the case, I would like to hear more about this set-up.


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## Bluefinn

I was just looking at the Luhr-Jensen website. The tech sheet 504(great lakes riggings) has a setup with a free sliding jet with single & double baits. Jim or anyone ever use this presentation?


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## fugarwi7

Jim, 
We all head to the lake with a game plan in mind based on info gathered from all of a resources we have, ie. locals, prefishing, previous patterns, etc.. and have a pre-fishing game plan in mind, but then at times (more than we would like to admit), they fail miserably once on the water. Without getting into all of the variables that exist on a given day, how do you approach a scenario when your original game plan fails? What thought process do you go through, (and I would assume other successful pros go through), to increase the odds of getting a good bite going? Do you revert to old patterns, tried and trued methods, or go off the deep end and try something totally unorthodoxed? This may be a so far gone, complex issue that a simple answer is impossible, but based on your experience, how do you think through what to do next?


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## Jim Stedke

fugarwi7 said:


> Did I mis-interpret this statement?
> Jim, I hope you mean 4 lines, dipsys on two and jets on two and not jets attached behind dipsys. If that is not the case, I would like to hear more about this set-up.


 Right 2 dipsys on the inside & 2 Jets on the outside. Not Both together on the same line, ever that I know of!!!


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## Jim Stedke

Bluefinn said:


> I was just looking at the Luhr-Jensen website. The tech sheet 504(great lakes riggings) has a setup with a free sliding jet with single & double baits. Jim or anyone ever use this presentation?


 No I have not. I have run 2 lures with a Jet before but it was a spoon behind the Jet, and a 6' detachable leader to another spoon 10' up the line from the Jet (held inplace with a snap wt clip). And uncliped when the spoon behind the Jet caught. Like most tandum lure rigs, nearly more trouble than it is worth.

Good luck and good fishing.


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## Jim Stedke

fugarwi7 said:


> Jim,
> We all head to the lake with a game plan in mind based on info gathered from all of a resources we have, ie. locals, prefishing, previous patterns, etc.. and have a pre-fishing game plan in mind, but then at times (more than we would like to admit), they fail miserably once on the water. Without getting into all of the variables that exist on a given day, how do you approach a scenario when your original game plan fails? What thought process do you go through, (and I would assume other successful pros go through), to increase the odds of getting a good bite going? Do you revert to old patterns, tried and trued methods, or go off the deep end and try something totally unorthodoxed? This may be a so far gone, complex issue that a simple answer is impossible, but based on your experience, how do you think through what to do next?


 A wise man told me that the only right answer to any question is, "well that depends".

This seems particularly true here. LOL 

I have 1 friend that I really enjoy fishing with. He's a good fishermen, but a better thinker. I have never said to him, "what do you think?" when he has not had an answer. Now we don't always do what he is thinking, but it's a start to a thought process, that works through the situation and tries to react logically. 

While traveling back home from tournaments, you have time to evaluate your decision making for that tournament, and very often, after the fact, you think why didn't I do this or that. That evolved in me to during the tournament (or day on the water) I ask myself, what am I going to think I should have tried on the way home. Somehow that allows you to step back and get a different perspective. 

It seems to help me, I hope it does the same for you. 

Good luck.


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> Like most tandum lure rigs, nearly more trouble than it is worth.
> 
> 
> 
> i cound not agree with you more. doubles ALWAYS created more tangles that fish for me. which means more time untangling lines and less time those lines are in the water. tandum rigging is a waste of time .IMO
Click to expand...


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## Jim Stedke

They need to be set painfully slow to keep from tangling, and I'm too dern impatient to deal with them, Unless they are working, and nothing else is.


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
I have read where it is better to use a braided line when pulling dipseys then mono. Can you explain the difference please and when it comes to this time of year do you slap on another reel filled with braided line or reline the reel that has mono on it?
Thanks,
Ron


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## Jim Stedke

Buckeye Ron said:


> Jim,
> I have read where it is better to use a braided line when pulling dipseys then mono. Can you explain the difference please and when it comes to this time of year do you slap on another reel filled with braided line or reline the reel that has mono on it?
> Thanks,
> Ron


Ron, My board rods are too light in the mid section to pull Dipsys, so I have 2 sets of rods, but if you doing both boards and Dipsys with the same rods I'd just strip off enough 10# (or whatever) mono, use the rest as backing, and put on around 200' of 30/8 power pro. If you were going to alternate the same rod between the 2 presentations, I guess you'd need different reels for the Dipsys and the boards.

The braided line is almost a must for Dipsys because it makes reading the rods and tripping the Dipsy so much easier. We hated Dipsys when we were trying to use mono with them. But the PowerPro makes using them a snape.

Hope this helps, thanks for the question, and best of luck.


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## Pond Scum

The glow sticks I use that Blue Dolphin was referring too in an earlier post can be purchased in wholesale bulk from a couple of locations online. Glowlites.com, Glowrus.com, and Glowproducts.com will all have what you need and more. These sticks end up costing you very little per each and a bulk bag of them will last you a couple of years. They come in all sorts of different colors, but I stick with the basic yellow, because they are the brightest and last the longest. I just attach them to my board flag with a small plastic wire-tie. Throw them away at the end of the night. I use the 4" size.


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## fugarwi7

Jim Stedke said:


> While traveling back home from tournaments, you have time to evaluate your decision making for that tournament, and very often, after the fact, you think why didn't I do this or that. That evolved in me to during the tournament (or day on the water) I ask myself, what am I going to think I should have tried on the way home. Somehow that allows you to step back and get a different perspective.
> 
> It seems to help me, I hope it does the same for you.
> 
> Good luck.


I realized it is tough to answer a question so broad in scope with so many variables because "it does just depend". I do the same thing driving home and your comment will make me now ask that question before it is too late to react to it. I just hope I can remember it when on the water! Thanks for the insight.


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## Burky

Jim,
What kinda line do you use for trolling cranks?and Why?


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## Jim Stedke

Burky, The line I use would depend on the depth I expect to work. For Summer time trolling in the islands, it would be 12# Berkley Big Game (mono). because it's tuff, cheap & matches up with Precision trolling fairly well.

If I was trying to get to 45' or more over east, I'd probably use leadcore.

But in my real world, I use Dipsys to get deeper that 30' and mono to work down to that depth. With Jets I'd probably use mono, but braid is a good way to add sensativity (or readability) to Jets. 

I hope I answered your question... if not please clearify.

Good luck & good fishing.


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## misfit

this has to be the best thread i've seen on the site from the beginning.
i rarely get a chance to fish erie,and when i do it's with a friend from the site on their boat.but i've read every post here and many more than once.it's chock full of great info,given by many great contributors with an abundance of knowledge,from pros,charters and "regular joes".
i'll never get the chance to put much of this stuff to use,but love learning from it.and for those who do have the opportunity to spend the time on erie,this is kinda like a "one stp shop" for anything you might want/need to know.
my personal thanks and a big thumbs up to jim for taking his time to get this rolling,and thanks to the other great erie guys like marc,gary and others for the wealth of info you've been providing. 
you guys definitely help this site to be tops in every way

ps.............i may not get to erie often,but some of the info here is sure to help me on the inland waters i fish.


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## Jim Stedke

Rick, Thanks for the kind words. It's nice to have your efforts validated. 

So far as taking from an Erie thread and using it inland ... why not. I live about 20 miles from Indian Lake, and play with the saugeyes there from time to time. It's kinda like fishing for toy walleyes, smaller lures (Little Rippers), shorter drop lengths (usually less the 40'), but msot of my success stems from Erie tactics. 

Good luck & good fishing.


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## ezbite

i was reading another post about jets not diving to the advertised depth or adding snap weights to achieve the desired depth. why bother with them at all when dipseys work so well. is it a pulling thing? do jets pull less than dips? if a jet 40 won't dive to 40' why not drill a hole in it to release the trapped air? i know that jets rise at rest and dips sink, is that the main reason for using them? i have 8 jets that i cant ever remember using because the dipsey program worked so well. 

ok after all of that my question is what the advantage of jets over dips? is there one? thanks. if you stay with me long enough i'll get to the question sooner or later


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## Lundy

Jets, dipseys, big boards, little boards, it's all personal preference, boat setup, lake conditions, fish attitude, ect, etc, etc.

In my mind there is no one hard fast rule that dictates that you must use any one presentation over any other. What's the old adage, "there's more than one way to skin a cat"

There are many days that I run big boards and jets, I get a wide spread away from the boat and can easily target high fish. I sometimes will just long line a couple of jets. I ran this setup last year with my mother and grandkids. They can bring in a fish on a jet , they can't quite handle the difficulty of bringing a fish on a dipsey. Last spring the steelhead were breaking on the surface on an extremely flat day. I put out the big boards with 10 jets, 
10-15' back and smoked them after my dispsys died when the fish moved to the surface.

I use them all, dipseys, jets, boards, long lining, casting, they all work, some better than others depending on the day.

As far as jets not going to the depth as advertised, I really don't care how accurate the charts are. I have a length back spread that I always start with and then make adjustments as the fish tell me what they want. The first couple of releases for the day tell me much more than any chart will.


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## ezbite

Lundy said:


> I really don't care how accurate the charts are. I have a length back spread that I always start with and then make adjustments as the fish tell me what they want. The first couple of releases for the day tell me much more than any chart will.


i couldn't of said it any better


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## BIGHILLBILLY

Burky said:


> Jim,
> What kinda line do you use for trolling cranks?and Why?


For me I have gone to fireline exculsively. All of my trolling rods are set up with the 14 lb. new crystal fireline from Berkley. I quit using mono about 5 years ago and will probably never go back.

My reasoning is because fireline is so much more sensitive then mono and allows cranks to run deeper then on mono. I fish any kind of water I can and with firleine I can tell if my crank has picked up a weed or isn't running right due to some other reason. Mono in my opinion has to much stretch to it and it is hard to tell if your lure is running right or not.

The down falls with fireline is that you have to go with an xtra fast or fast tip rod with a lot of forgiveness to it because of firelines no stretch characteristics. I also have added a 6 to 10 leader of flourocarbon to the end of my rigs to add a little stretch in the line.


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## Jim Stedke

Mike, That's a in the know set up and one that would be ultra readable for little fish, weeds, trash, or bottom contact. The only downside is the potential for rip offs. I hate loosing fish, and I feel that with fireline I'm going to have a higher percentage of them get off, even with longer softer rods, backed off drags, and experienced guy on the rod. 
Do you think your loose ratio goes up, and if so by how much.

I have seen the times that Fireline rigs produce significantly more hits, and in fact there are times when the additional hook ups more than offset the rip offs. And it seems those times are most often during a tuff bite. That's why I experiment with them, but I don't see the advantage to run it all the time, especially on fired up & highly active fish. 

Let me add this ... I like to fish as fast as possible and most of the time, I'm one of the faster trollers in the area. If you like to fish slow, I can see that it wouldn't be such a deal.

I'd like to hear your opinion.


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## BIGHILLBILLY

Really Jim I have not seen any real down falls to running the fireline all the time. I can not say that I have ever lost a fish due to the fireline's no stretch characteristics. I run the diawa and okuma down rigger / dipsey rods in the 8' lengths. These rods as many of you will know have a very whippy or the correct term is x fast tips on them. The rods are the key to fishing with the fireline because they have to be able to take the shock of the fish battling not like with mono where the stretch in the line takes a lot of the shock. I also back off on my drag a little more then most when I feel the fish is an extremely large one or has broad shoulders.

I also have switched all of the hooks to Mustads triple grip hooks to help with the fears of loosing a fish. I will say that fireline is not for everyone! It takes a while to get the hang of it but all of the reading studying I have done on the topic I feel confident that for me and my style of trolling it fits perfectly.

I have talked to some of the PWT pro's about this very topic and most will admit that they troll the fireline almost exclusively. I am going to say again that trolling the fireline is not for everyone and it takes some time to adjust.

I also will troll faster then most would even think of. My run of the mill trolling speed is usually 2.5+ but I have trolled at 4 mph during the dog days of summer on flet lakes to produce reaction bites. I like to cover water and with my set up I feel that it is my most productive way of doing so.


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## BIGHILLBILLY

Jim here is some interesting reading I just found on the next bite by PWT pro Scott Fairborn.

Todays low stretch superlines like Berkley Fireline have some tremendous benefits to walleyes anglers fishing crankbaits. Specifically the low diameter of these lines will allow cranks to dive deeper with the same amount of line out as traditional monofilament. While the lines do have a significant upside the low stretch properties can result in lost fish do to excessive wear on the fish's mouth during the fight. A solution is available in the form of inward bend treble hooks like Mustads Triple Grip treble hook. Traditional treble hooks evolved over the years with monofilament line in mind. Stretchy mono demands open gaps that get something on the fish at distance. Usually a hookset or additional pressure drives the hook home. In contrast, low stretch superlines have instant hookup and the focus shifts to keep the fish on until it gets to the boat. The inward bend of the Triple Grip accomplishes that goal. Switching over to inward bend trebles on crankbaits when using superlines will increase your odds of handling fish all the way to the boat.

For more info on walleye fishing hooks and matching the right hook to your favorite techniques, check out the

mustad fish hook guide


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## Jim Stedke

Mike, Thanks for the replys. The PWT guys thnk they are flying if they get over 1.8 mph, and they run harnesses a bunch, so I understand their atttaction to Fireline but for cranks I think mono has some advantages. 

Hey, nobody says we have to agree. 

Best of luck, Jim


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## mach1cj

Jim, i'm wondering what would be the best knot to use for tying snaps and swivels on fluocarbon leaders for dipseys?? thanks to all for all the great information.


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## Jim Stedke

Knots in pure Flourocarbon leader material are kinda tricky because the stuff is so dern stiff. I use the Polimar knot, but you must make sure to wet it up big time before you tighten it, and make sure that last little loop comes over the top. 

Hope this helps, and good luck.


----------



## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
What is your advice on whether to use a loop knot in front of say a Reef Runner or Rapala lure vs a swivel?
Thanks,
Ron


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## Jim Stedke

I never use a swivel in front of any crank or stick bait. I'm a nut on precise tuning and a well tuned lure doesn't need a swivel. I use a round bottom duolock snap only about 5/8ths of an inch long. It makes changing lures quick & easy.


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## K gonefishin

That is exactly what I use, same ones when connecting leader but with a samo on the other end, well at least for spinners, harnesses, and dipsey's.


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## ezbite

yep, i use palomars on EVERYTHING..very easy to tie and never had one slip/pull out.


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## ezmarc

I agree overall about the snap instead of swivel but if I have a swivel on the line I want to use a crank on, I run it anyway rather than retying. 

I haven't seen a problem doing it but the Old School teaching tells me it's the wrong thing to do.


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## Jim Stedke

Like Gary said, " it's not rocket science".


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## BFG

Didn't see the exact term used for the one type of core to mono knot...

It's called the "Willis knot" for attaching mono to core. The real trick is to keep the overhand knot in the core sheath loose (see big) to allow the mono to slide inside. Cut the mono on an angle with a knife to assist the entry. I've found that as long as the mono is inside the overhand when you cinch it down, you will not have any problems with slippage. Most core sheaths are rated at a minimum of 18#, and the type I use is rated at 27#. It takes some practice...but when mastered, can be done very quickly, even in the boat while bouncing around on the lake. 

Want a real challenge? Try to feed braid in the sheath. LOL

Jim, when you stated that "a properly tuned crank does not need a swivel" did you mean that you do not use a swivel at all? I typically will run a 6' leader off a small Sampo barrel swivel to prevent line twist. I do this for both spoons and cranks. I can understand not using one behind a jet or a mini-disc, but what about mono sets w/ snap weights? 

Thanks for the info so far..


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## Jim Stedke

You are correct. If the lure is not rolling the line won't twist. And if the lure is rolling it is nowhere near as deep as it should be. 

Like I said, I'm a nut on tuning. Here's a copy of a previous "how to" on tuning Reef Runners. If you can tune a Reef Runner you can tune anything.

Reef Runners have a built in horizontal hunting action. That's kinda like saying they are not going to track perfectly straight and true. A slight variation in speed will often cause the lure to dart left or right momentarily. This is a wonderful trigger for any following fish and frankly I believe it is what makes the lure so effective. 
So how do we tune a lure that has a built in horizontal hunting action???

You start with the lure beside the boat at trolling speed, with around 10' of line out. Pull the lure and watch to see if wants to hang too far left or too far right. Using needle nose pliers or the Reef Runner lure tuner, bend the line tie in the bill just slightly the opposite way the lure is running. (running left - bend right or the reverse). Keep making tiny adjustments until the lure pulls fairly straight. 

Now rip the lure forward with the rod, such as would happen if the board was coming off a wave. The lure will likely kick right or left. Pull it several times and make tiny adjustments untill you get it to kick both left and right about equally. 

The secret is to sneak up on the sweet spot, and not rack the line tie back and forth several times. 

Good luck and good fishing to all, and COME ON SPRING!!!


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## K gonefishin

Yep Jim said it perfect as usual.... One thing I noticed when I really started getting in tune with Reefs is that the eyelet you are bending is VERY sensative, if a wave knocks you while trying to tune and you push to hard to either side it might not even dive, it is a ever ever so slight adjustment, just don't think you need to crank it to one side or the other, be gentle with your favorite reef runners, Ohh and I like the Reef Runner brand tuner, it's around my rearview mirror during season and goes around my neck before I launch crucial piece of equipment IMO when running these baits, don't forget an extra they are worth having them around at your dispense. 

Needle nose work but to big and bunky and can't really fit them around my neck.


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## Jim Stedke

One other thing, I check the tune after every catch. In fact I check every lure I set all year long. It takes 2 seconds and can prevent some serious tangles to say nothing about the fact that an out of tune lure is killing 1 line. 

Tuning is critical because depth is critical !!!


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## blue dolphin

One thing that ive always done that works really well is what i call and many other call super tuning. As im going out the river from the launch i will put the cranks at the side Your usually doing about 2.5 to 3.0 mph if not more depending on your boat. and tune the lures then. If you can tune them straight at that speed your good to go once you get out to the trolling grounds. Plus it saves time once you stop to troll so your good to go. 

Im not sure but would the mustad hook that there talking about be the same as the gomakatsu ewg just curious.? 

I have to agree with Jim that ealry season cranking with little boards is much easier with mono as far as loosing fish. I never thought so until someone made me a believer. One thing i still love braid and hate mono but there are times you cant be hard headed lol. gary zart blue dolphin


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## ErieAngler

Jim,

What length leader will you use on dipsies and jets when trolling spoons? 

Do you always us florocarbon leaders? Will it really make a big difference over plain old mono?

What leader lengths are the norm for trolling harnesses? And can you run them off of dipsies or jets? Or do you have to use in-line weights flat lining and off boards?

Just curious what others do.

Thanks!


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## Jim Stedke

Erie Angler, One at a time. 
leader length Cleveland west 6', Fairport east longer 8 - 10. and in Dunkirk some use leaders up to 15' long which makes netting an adventure. 

Mono Type : Pure flourocarbon leader material is superior, because it is tuff and stiff (20 or 25# is nearly impossible to twist up), and non target species can be man-handled (yank the sheephead out ot the lake with the leader). The invisabiliy thing is not the issue. So long as you keep the knots out of the leaders you'll be able to use them for most of the season. 

The harnesses I use are what we call Dipsy harnesses, and they are short only 11 - 14" long made to be used behind Dipsys or Jets with a 6' leader. I think Gary (Blue Dolphin)ties his 4 - 5' long and doesn't use a leader ahead of them. Maybe he'll jump in & clearify. When I'm running these harnesses, my leaders have a Sampo ball bearing snap swivel at both ends to eliminate twists.

Thanks for the questions and good luck.


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## eyesman_01

My gps doesn't read slow speeds under @ 1.5 very well. What is your opinion of the Luhr Jensen speed indicator?


----------



## Jim Stedke

I think it would end up stashed in the dock box or in the garage. It seems to me that with waves it would be unreliable and I know it would be in the way on my boat. Try to learn how to read speed from the bend or set in the rods. Once you've accomplished that you can even tell when you are in a current. 

An other thing to watch is the way the water comes off the front of the in-line boards. They throw a little bow wave that can help you stay at your desired speed.

Thanks and good luck.


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## fugarwi7

Erie,
I know your question was for Jim but I will add this thought to his. I tie my flouro harnesses at 5' to 6' and tie a swivel with a snap on the line end. I can then run it behind a jet, dipsie or inline weight or bottom bouncers without making any other modifications. Makes for a quick and easy change on the water if I need to adjust my presentation. If I need to have them any longer, then I tie those on the lake. And I can attest they work pretty well...the eyes don't seem to care as I did well last year with this set-up on Erie and in Canada where I fish.


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## blue dolphin

To answer to what jim said. I also us a 10 inch harness tied with fireline 30lb that is then attached to a 8 -10 ft flouro carbon leader from a dipsey or jet. My 5 -6 ft harnesses are made of flouro carbon and are attached to my inlines and snap weight presentations. If im in super clear water conditions i will make my dipsey and jet harnesses out of 20 lb flouro carbon hope this helps gary zart blue dolphin


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## Jim Stedke

As you can see, when you use the term worm harness, to a Lake Erie fishermen, you are covering a variety of possibilities. Some are tied on superbraid, some on mono, and there are some made on vinyl coated seven strand wire. And they all catch fish, when used in an appropriate manner.


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## blue dolphin

Jim i dont know if you saw my question about the hooks or maybe big hillbilly can reply is the mustad there talking about the same as a gomakatsu ewg thanks gary


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## Jim Stedke

I think the 2 hooks are both what I'd call "Kahli" style trebles. Sorry I wasn't sure and didn't want to be wrong.


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## blue dolphin

thanks Jim


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
i have seen a couple post that talk about the current in Lake Erie. Could you please explain this for me. I am not aware of a "current" being in the lake vs one in a river, stream, etc. And how it effects your fishing the lake.
Thanks,
Ron


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## Jim Stedke

Ron, The currents in Lake Erie are of a fairly minor consequence, in the western basin, but east of Cleveland they can be significant. 
Walleyes use currents to funnel baitfish to them, and just like in a river, they will position themselves along the edge of a current, or between currents running in opposite directions. The odd thing about currents in the central and eastern basins is that are usually running north and south. 
Currents show themselves in the summer time, in the form of scum lines, slicks or trash lines. These occur when currents collide and cause an upwelling of the water. Anything and everything that is in the water column ends up on the surface. Thus forming the scum line, slick or trash line that are so easy to distinguish.
I always check out these situation with my electronics and if fish are present, I work them by getting lures above the marking fish and working up and down the scum line. 
One thing to remember about scum lines or mud lines is the fact that are nor necessarily straight up and down. They often run off at and angle and you may need to be off to the right or left, to find the fish below, so when looking zig zag back and forth throught the scum line. 
For walleye or steelhead, these converging currents become temporary structure. And like all structure there are spots on the spot that hold significantly more fish, so do a little looking for the best concentrations of fish before dumping in the lines. 
And expect these scum lines to move. Don't lay a plot trail and retace it. Often each pass needs to be off set to keep on top of the active fish.
I hope this helps, and thanks for the post.


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## ezmarc

Here is a map of lake Erie surface currents. http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/res/glcfs/glcfs.php?lake=e&ext=sfcur&type=N&hr=00


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> Ron, The currents in Lake Erie are of a fairly minor consequence, in the western basin, but east of Cleveland they can be significant.
> 
> 
> Currents show themselves in the summer time, in the form of scum lines, slicks or trash lines.




i would think just the opposite would hold true with the currents in the basins. western being shallower and having the islands i would think you would have a fairly strong current there. as for the central basin which is much deeper and wider (after the sandbar off vermilion) i would think the current would be calmer. thats the way rivers flow. i know were not talking about a river but it's still water. not trying to argue just saying what im thinking 


i always wondered why there would be a scum line 3 miles offshore. now i know the teaching continues..thanks, now when were out this season and i explain that to the land lubbers it will look like i really know my sh!t.lol


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## Jim Stedke

I probably shouldn't minimize currents around the islands because there are wind originated currents and eddys that are important. North of Kelly Shoal, the slot between North & Middle Bass, the NE corner of Pelee Island are all examples of predictable currents that the fish use. 

And even which side of the sand bar off Vermilion is good depends on which way the current is flowing, so you have a point. 

I've often said that of all the things that are important to fishermen, if you could somehow know all about currents, that would probably be the most important factor, to allow you know where to go to catch walleyes.

Thanks for straightening me out. 

Good luck & good fishing.


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## K gonefishin

Just something I observed about currents. I always look at the satallite picture as most of us erie trollers use it daily, I noticed after we get allot of rain the detroit river will dump muddy or off colored water into erie you can actually see the muddy water streaming across the western basin even past the islands, I can only reasonablye assume that the amount of output the river has depends on how far that water carries, same for the maumee river. I wonder how this dump of water coming out of the major drainage river into erie effect the natural currents that are there anyway? I can tell you after fishing with a sub troll, gps speed versus speed at the ball greatly differs depending on which way you are trolling, sometimes there is no difference sometimes it can be as much as .5-.8- difference. I would think surface currents differs from current where your baits are running.

Jim any thoughts?


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> Thanks for straightening me out.




no, no, no! i wasn't correcting you. i won't even attempt to pretend i have a fraction of your fishing knowledge. i have learned sooooo much from this thread that i hope it keeps going until ice out. then im going to print out 2 copys and put one in the boat and the other by my morning reading throne LOL..thank you for your help.

but im still confused why if jets are such an issue you don't just run dips? or the advantage of jets over dips. am i missing something? it's been known to happen i have 8 jets that i don't use because they only pull back and not out like dips do. i haven't been a board man. but i will be this spring.


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## Buckeye Ron

ezmarc said:


> Here is a map of lake Erie surface currents. http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/res/glcfs/glcfs.php?lake=e&ext=sfcur&type=N&hr=00


EZ,
This is a great site. My question are these the present currents or will they remain this way the entire year?
Thanks,
Ron


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## Jim Stedke

K gonefishin said:


> Just something I observed about currents. I always look at the satallite picture as most of us erie trollers use it daily, I noticed after we get allot of rain the detroit river will dump muddy or off colored water into erie you can actually see the muddy water streaming across the western basin even past the islands, I can only reasonablye assume that the amount of output the river has depends on how far that water carries, same for the maumee river. I wonder how this dump of water coming out of the major drainage river into erie effect the natural currents that are there anyway? I can tell you after fishing with a sub troll, gps speed versus speed at the ball greatly differs depending on which way you are trolling, sometimes there is no difference sometimes it can be as much as .5-.8- difference. I would think surface currents differs from current where your baits are running.
> 
> Jim any thoughts?


Absolutly correct.
Currents are 3 dimensional and at times there can be a high currnet and an opposing deep current. That's one hidden benefit of Dipsys, they can really help see and define currents. Especialy if your running sideways to them (which by the way is not the way you want to run). 

You want to run inline with the current and at the edge of it.

I wish I knew more about how to work with currents, and I'm working on it.

When your catching around a current PAY ATTENTION it's one of those times when the fish are trying to tell you something... so listen.

Hope this helps, and thanks for the post.


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## Jim Stedke

The main advantage of Jets over Dipsys is the fact that floar at rest and are so convenient to run with Dipsys. Many charter guys set Dipsys on the inside with Jets off the boards all summer. Thumper, Pooh Bear, and most of the trolling charters from the west end to Lorain, typically used these 2 presentations. 

There are differences in the attractive qualities of each. The Dipsys have more of a tendency to swim up and down, while the Jets hold a more constant depth. It's a way to show the same fish something a little different and sometimes, that's what it takes. 

And at times when there are fish at 2 different depths, it gives you the ability to target both groups. 

I don't think you're missing anything. And if fishing only 2 -4 guys, I'd opt for the Dipsys a majority of the time. 

Thanks for the post and good luck.


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## Jim Stedke

Ron, The current maps show existing currents as of the last 3 hours (I think), and updated several times a day.


----------



## Buckeye Ron

Jim Stedke said:


> Ron, The current maps show existing currents as of the last 3 hours (I think), and updated several times a day.


thanks Jim, now I understand why i was drifting against the wind last year, it was because of the current under us.
Ron


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## ezmarc

Buckeye Ron,

Those are current currents.  They change constantly and are even present when there is no wind or heavy rains involved.

I tried to write up a current explanation from my fishermans point of view but just couldn't put it in manageable text and gave up. It's way to deep of a subject for my meager writing skills. Sounds like a good Dazed and Confused Seminar topic this spring!


----------



## Guest

I read one of you previous post that you run crank baits on mono for better hoook set. What pound mono do you run with you cranks. What I am looking at thinking of trying to run mono on my in line planner board rods. Do you use 10lbs to match the trolling book?
Right now I am running 14 pound Fireline with a 6 foot flourcarbon leader 14lbs tied with a uniknot.


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## Moonlighter

Bet you had fun writing that up Marc. One of the easiest ways for me to envision currents, complete with temperature breaks, vertical, horizontal, etc., is to just pictue how lava flows over land, but picture it underwater and 100 times over. A lava lamp is a pretty easy way to see how one liquid moves within another. Current is much the same, just more elongated top to bottom and side to side. Like many little rivers flowing down the length and breadth of a lake or ocean.


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## Jim Stedke

tubuzz2 said:


> I read one of you previous post that you run crank baits on mono for better hoook set. What pound mono do you run with you cranks. What I am looking at thinking of trying to run mono on my in line planner board rods. Do you use 10lbs to match the trolling book?
> Right now I am running 14 pound Fireline with a 6 foot flourcarbon leader 14lbs tied with a uniknot.


 I use 12# Berkley Big Game, because it's tuff, cheap & matches up w/10#XT pretty well.

It's not hook set, but rather fewer rip offs.


----------



## troller

Jim - Great site, keep up the informative tips! I attended the Walleye College and was very impressed by the wealth of advice. I'm trying to refine my crank bait inventory. I've got a nice selection of Reef Runners (including several Bare-Naked), Husky Jerks, Smithwicks Rogues, etc; which I'm confident are proper for spring trolling. I'm looking for your opinion of the remaining ones in by boxes: 
1. Rapala Shad Raps. sinking and suspending 
2. Rapala Fat Raps (deep runners) 
3. Rapal Countdowns and Rattlin' Rapalas 
4. Storm Hot N' Tots 
5. Wally Divers 
6. Storm Thundersticks....Juniors, shallow, deep (3-1/2, and 4-1/2 inch)
I have a hunch the last three have their place once water warms.....but are the first three more suited for bass fishing on inland lakes, or do they have a legitimate place in a Lake Erie walleye arsenal?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Jim Stedke

troller said:


> Jim - Great site, keep up the informative tips! I attended the Walleye College and was very impressed by the wealth of advice. I'm trying to refine my crank bait inventory. I've got a nice selection of Reef Runners (including several Bare-Naked), Husky Jerks, Smithwicks Rogues, etc; which I'm confident are proper for spring trolling. I'm looking for your opinion of the remaining ones in by boxes:
> 1. Rapala Shad Raps. sinking and suspending
> 2. Rapala Fat Raps (deep runners)
> 3. Rapal Countdowns and Rattlin' Rapalas
> 4. Storm Hot N' Tots
> 5. Wally Divers
> 6. Storm Thundersticks....Juniors, shallow, deep (3-1/2, and 4-1/2 inch)
> I have a hunch the last three have their place once water warms.....but are the first three more suited for bass fishing on inland lakes, or do they have a legitimate place in a Lake Erie walleye arsenal?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Shad Raps, Fat raps & Rattlin Raps will all catch fish trolling. All Stickbaits can be run behind Dipsys with success when the fish are deep.
The last 3 are proven fish catchers, so Take em if you want. The 03 fish are going to be the right size for mid-size lures.

Best of luck and good fishing.


----------



## eyesman_01

First off, I know what was said about reels in an earlier post... With that said, I was looking for a couple baitcasting (trolling) reels within my budget. I've never used baitcasters so I know nothing about them except the bird's nest. I picked up 2 Abu Garcia Ambassador 6000 reels tonight at Walmart for $50.00 apiece, only .04 more than the 5000 series at the same store. Now, for the price I don't expect them to last forever, but then I won't be using them as hard as a tournament angler or charter. 

Do you know anything about these reels or anything I should watch for? 

Oh yeh, and what is this "bare-naked" color? I haven't seen it yet.

Thanks,

Brian


----------



## fugarwi7

eyesman_01 said:


> First off, I know what was said about reels in an earlier post... With that said, I was looking for a couple baitcasting (trolling) reels within my budget. I've never used baitcasters so I know nothing about them except the bird's nest. I picked up 2 Abu Garcia Ambassador 6000 reels tonight at Walmart for $50.00 apiece, only .04 more than the 5000 series at the same store. Now, for the price I don't expect them to last forever, but then I won't be using them as hard as a tournament angler or charter.
> 
> Do you know anything about these reels or anything I should watch for?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brian


Take care of them and they will last forever! Workhorse of all baitcasters IMO!


----------



## eyesman_01

That's a relief. I was probably editing my post while you were adding yours.... what is this "bare-naked" color?


----------



## fugarwi7

eyesman_01 said:


> That's a relief. I was probably editing my post while you were adding yours.... what is this "bare-naked" color?


http://www.xtackle.com/index_files/reefrunnerbarenaked.htm


----------



## Jim Stedke

eyesman_01 said:


> First off, I know what was said about reels in an earlier post... With that said, I was looking for a couple baitcasting (trolling) reels within my budget. I've never used baitcasters so I know nothing about them except the bird's nest. I picked up 2 Abu Garcia Ambassador 6000 reels tonight at Walmart for $50.00 apiece, only .04 more than the 5000 series at the same store. Now, for the price I don't expect them to last forever, but then I won't be using them as hard as a tournament angler or charter.
> 
> Do you know anything about these reels or anything I should watch for?
> 
> Oh yeh, and what is this "bare-naked" color? I haven't seen it yet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brian


 Your reels are good reels. They lack line counters so you'll need to know how much line comes off the reel with the level wind going across the spool. Probably around 8 or 10'. To determine drop lengths simply count the passes. 
The drags on these reel have only 1 drag washer, and you may need to replace that every year, but they'll do you a good job.

Bare naked is a Reef Runner color. It's a clear lure that has a prismatic translucent layer on the inside. It shows coppers, purples, pinks, greens, blues, and you need some of them!! Really!! We ran them all last year and can say without hesitation that it the most universal color I've ever ran.


----------



## fugarwi7

Jim, 

Do you find matching lure size to the progression of the Erie season to be an advantage in hooking more fish, ie, smaller in spring and larger in the fall? I have had very little success with smaller cranks like little rippers at anytime, but have always done well on larger baits from spring through late fall on, for example, Reef Runner 700/800 size baits. Is that due to the forage size on Erie being more mature year after year, and therefore more abundant in larger sizes? Or do you find at times smaller lures out produce larger baits? 

I hope this isn't another "it all depends question"   

It seems to me the only seasonal comments are about water depth throughout the threads here, but not much has been mentioned about lure size. 

What does your experience indicate?


----------



## Jim Stedke

fugarwi7 said:


> Jim,
> 
> Do you find matching lure size to the progression of the Erie season to be an advantage in hooking more fish, ie, smaller in spring and larger in the fall? I have had very little success with smaller cranks like little rippers at anytime, but have always done well on larger baits from spring through late fall on, for example, Reef Runner 700/800 size baits. Is that due to the forage size on Erie being more mature year after year, and therefore more abundant in larger sizes? Or do you find at times smaller lures out produce larger baits?
> 
> I hope this isn't another "it all depends question"
> 
> It seems to me the only seasonal comments are about water depth throughout the threads here, but not much has been mentioned about lure size.
> 
> What does your experience indicate?


 I catch a majority of my walleyes on the 800 Reef Runners (full size deep diver). But I'm bad about not giving the others a fair shot. The 400 Rip Shad should be the right size lure for these 03 fish and I'm going to try and use them more this year. 

I've night fished several times with Mark Brumbaugh and I've seen him catch plenty of fish at night on Little Rippers (nobody runs those little things .. but they work). He and Scott Stecher both run more small lures than I do

I guess it's kind of a so many lures ... so little time thing. 

Use what you have confidence in, but experiment as much as you can talk yourself into. LOL That's better than "it all depends"

thanks for the post & I hope this helps.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Ah yes the little rippers. I've done quite well with them early in the year when the forage base is at their smallest but as the year goes by I find that the bigger cranks take over. I usually run them on lead core or with snap weights depending on how deep the fish want them. I kinda ran into one of those deals of the century last year concerning the little rippers. The Wal mart near me had them clearanced out for .50 cents a piece so I bought every one they had. I then went to Gander and did their price match and cleaned them out at .45 cents a piece. It would only work on the the colors that wally world had clearanced out but I have a nice selection of them now.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Nice find!!! Pay the cost of the hooks and have a lure thrown in too. 

I've caught fish on smaller lures real early but the best time to use them is when the spoons start working (late May or early June). That's when you're matching the hatch.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Alright here is a good question for you and I would like your input! Is it just me or does the reef runner lures have cheap hooks on them? I mean I've had them bend when just trying to remove them from a fish's mouth. I have been switching over to the Mustad triple grips on all of my crankbaits. What brand of hooks do you use on your cranks? I would like your input on this topic please.


----------



## Jim Stedke

I don't change all the hooks, but for tournaments I sometimes put an Excaliber on the rear, or a red treble, and sometimes it's 1 size larger, and I sometimes add a tinsel / flashaboo dressed treble to the rear. And I change out damaged hooks also. 

I unhook about 90 - 95 percent of my fish by hand (no pliers). This forces you to unhook the fish (push the hook out backwards) not just rip the hooks out, and it is much much easier on the hooks, and they hold up longer. 

As you can see, I'm not sold on any one hook. They are all way better than they used to be. The standard hooks now are as good as the premiums were in the past.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

I've been trying the one size larger hook in the rear and putting a red treble in the front hook location. I haven't been able to tell if it really helps or not because the color red is still in debate as to whether fish can actually see it under water.

I guess this could turn into your ford, chevy, dodge question! LOL! Sorry for bringing it up! LOL!


----------



## Jim Stedke

Hey, No problem. If you've got a favorite hook, there's probably a reason, and I probably am NOT going to hastle you about it. 

The outbarbs that used to come on the Reef Runners were nasty sharp hooks, Excalibers are sharp and tuff, Gammie, Mustad, VMC they all make hooks now so sharp you can leave the HookHonR at home.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

I've never really tried switching to the flashaboo on the rear hooks. I know that it will dampen the lures action a little but do you feel it helps? If so what kind of scenario would you switch to the flashaboo?


----------



## Jim Stedke

I put some dressed trebles on a few lures for a April 1st tournament a couple years ago, and felt like they helped. Then just never took them off, and all summer long I found myself looking for them whenever the fishing was tuffer than I thought it ought to be, and I think they can be a trigger. 

To answer directly, Spring and night trolling is when I think they'll help the most.


----------



## eyesman_01

Jim Stedke said:


> Your reels are good reels. They lack line counters so you'll need to know how much line comes off the reel with the level wind going across the spool. Probably around 8 or 10'. To determine drop lengths simply count the passes.
> The drags on these reel have only 1 drag washer, and you may need to replace that every year, but they'll do you a good job.
> 
> Bare naked is a Reef Runner color. It's a clear lure that has a prismatic translucent layer on the inside. It shows coppers, purples, pinks, greens, blues, and you need some of them!! Really!! We ran them all last year and can say without hesitation that it the most universal color I've ever ran.



The box said "Multi Disc Drag", but that's fine. As long as the rest of the reel holds up, I can replace the washer as needed. I'm hoping to be using that drag a lot.LOL

Cool, a ghost bait. I have some clear rapalas, but I don't think they change colors. They're still new in the box. I don't have any reef runners. They don't sell them around here, I didn't find any in the Bass Pro Master Catalog, and I didn't see the Bare-Naked color listed for them in the Cabela's Master Catalog either. Where else should I look for them?

If you like dressed trebles, what do you think of the X-rap?


----------



## eyesman_01

oh, and I have clamp on linecounters just for that reason.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

I think you can order them from the site that the linky takes you to. I was just snooping around on there and it looks like they carry a great selection!


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## eyesman_01

Which linky do you mean?


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## BIGHILLBILLY

This one! Sorry it was posted ealier in the thread and I thought you had seen it.


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## eyesman_01

Thanks. Hmmmm.... looks like I'll be having to make a road trip.


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## Jim Stedke

eyesman_01 said:


> oh, and I have clamp on linecounters just for that reason.


 The clamp on line counters are somewhat of a hastle, and require you to pay close attention to the tension on the line as it is metered. Here's a tip to simplify the situation. Use the clamp ons or counting passes to get your length then take a small #10 rubber band and cinch it on the line just above the reel, to mark your length. When you make a catch, reel the band right onto the spool, then when resetting, all you have to do is let the line out to the band.

Hope this helps, and good luck.


----------



## eyesman_01

Sounds like a very good idea. I figured the clamp ons were temporary anyway til I could figure another way of determining depth. I figured they'd get me close to begin with. The 2 linecounter reels I do have are Shakespeare Tidewater 30LCL, and they're a bit bulky. They're just a bit bigger than these Ambassadors. I put them on a couple 7' medium heavy rods. The Ambassadors are on 9' Shimano TDR-90's. Thanks for the tip with the rubber bands.


----------



## Bob Why

eyesman_01,  You could call Denny at the Sportsman's Outpost for the bare nakeds. 440-967-4000. He also has an 800 #. I don't have it in my phone. Or you can check out Bait Dave. www.baitdave.com/. I'm sure either one can fix you up with all the Reef Runners you want. Cabela's , Bass Pro. nor Dick's carry any of the newer colors of Reef Runners. You almost have to go to one of the Local Tackle Shops on the Erie shoreline.


----------



## eyesman_01

Thanks *Bob*, I appreciate the tip. I'm gonna need some if I'm gonna keep up with you guys out there. 

Just received my Team OGF decals for my boat today. Thanks Dale. I'll be getting more.

Since I've never met any of you in person, how do you know if anyone you see on the lake, or hear talking on the radio, is from here? I'm a CB brat, and I've listened to the chatter on Pat's VHF when we'd be out on the lake, but I'm unfamiliar with the etiquette of a marine radio. Are there specific channels you use? Call out for Team OGF? Etc., etc. Seems like a dumb question, but I've never had to use it.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Eyeman 01, Denny's ph # is 888 855 9032. 

VHF is not CB, (no breaker 19, no good buddy, and no catch you on the flip ... but it's no big deal. Listen for a bit and you'll pick it up. Remember the Coast Guard is listening.


----------



## eyesman_01

Oh, I knew it wasn't the same as CB. That's why I was asking. I just didn't know if there was a "standard". I'm sure I'll pick it up.

As far as knowing if anyone from the site is out, I'll just have to post here when I go and see who responds. 

I have no problem with the CG.


----------



## Jim Stedke

There are FCC rules that control VHF, and I'm not up to speed on them. That being said many harbors have a particular channel that the fishermen use. Ch 79 is one of the more popular. Boat names are used most often to contact a particular boat, but it's not unusual for someome to ask if a member of a group is on the channel, and in that case computer handles are often used. 

Like I said listen for a while and you'll pick it up. 
In our group OGF would likely be used. 
It's awkward to try and explain in writting.

Maybe someone else can step in.


----------



## Tommybouy

eyesman_01 said:


> oh, and I have clamp on linecounters just for that reason.



Ive used these line counters also. They require an extra step when compared to a line counter reel, but do a good job. Another use for the clamp on linecounters; they simplify measuring exact leader length when splicing to leadcore or other lines when your trolling reel isnt a line counter reel. I gave my buddy; who was a novice troller; all but 1 of my clamp on rod holders because it helps me measure leader length on my standard level wind's.


----------



## eyesman_01

I understand. I guess that's what I was trying to ask...

Thanks Jim. I appreciate your patience with me. I know, listen and learn. I will.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Just trying to help. I've gotta say, I've never answered that question before. 

There's plenty of guys on the water who simlpy hold the button down and talk ...let go the button and listen.

I'll say this ... if you just listen, you can gain alot of info, But it's like the computer, you gotta sort out the good from the not so good. 

Busy weekends I shut the dern thing off ... drives me nuts.

Thanks for the post, I'm better at fishing questions.


----------



## ERIE REBEL

Morning Jim,just wondering how your recovery is coming along?


----------



## Jim Stedke

I had the other hip done just 1 yr ago, and this one is going very well. Verging on going too good, if you know what I mean. I really feel like I could go with a cane right now, but I'm not going to push too hard. Don't want to screw thing up for fishing in late March or April.

Thanks for asking. 

I'm going to be at South Shore Marine Sat. March 3rd to help Freebyrd with a seminar, and to see me new rig. Maybe some of you guys want to stop by. I'll still be on crouches, but can't stand to miss a chance to talk fishin.


----------



## bobby

Glad to hear things are going well!

I stopped to see Denny at the Outpost, what a nice guy. Would you believe he came from his house, opened up his shop at 9:30 PM to sit and talk fishing with me because I was in the neighborhood? And in a snowstorm! I was asking him for some advice about trolling setups. He has a fishing story to go along with evry answer he gave to my question. Are all of you Vermillion guys like that? If so I'm moving there.

Anyhow, to my question. I'm stopping out on Tuesday if he is in and was thinking of setting up 4 reels. 2 of them with 10# mono and 2 of them with 40/10 power pro. Opinions? Also, trolling rods. I have heard a lot of guys talk about advantages of longer rods. Many of the combos he has out there have 8-8 1/2 foot rods. I kind of liked the 7 foot tdr, which Den said can be used for small boards or dipsies. The reason he was pointing me in that direction is I end up fishing by myself often or with inexperienced netters and a 7 footer makes things easier. Thanks for the time. I hope for your quick and full recovery. C'mon springtime!

Later,

Bobby


----------



## Jim Stedke

With 2 & 2 you'd be vesatile for summer fishing, & still be able to do the Spring stuff. If you get the chance to Spring fish with 2 guys and want 4 rods, you can use the 40/10 rods as they are, but you might think about simply putting 30' od 14/6 or 10/4 Fireline on them to get the added action at slow speeds. 

I preferr the rods under 8-1/2 ft myself because they are easier to deal with.

Denny is a great guy and he'll not steer you wrong. 

What reels are you going with?


----------



## bobby

In a perfect world of being independently wealthy, I'd go with the Okuma Catalinas, but at $130, it just isn't happening. They feel so nice, though. According to Den, the Okuma Convectors will do the job and then some. I believe it was 30 size he recommended because I plan on doing a lot of trolling.

Did I read correctly that you think I should tie 30 foot leader of fireline? Smaller diameter gives better action to the lure I guess? If so, what kind of knot would you recommend to go braid to braid?


----------



## Jim Stedke

It isn't a "should" thing, more like a "could" thing. And yes to increase the action at slow spriing speeds 

Knot: Either a tiny little swivel made by Spro that goes right onto the reel, or back to back uni knot. 

Again it's just up to you, maybe try it on one and see what happens. 

Thanks for the post and good luck.


----------



## Tommybouy

Jim,

good to hear your health is improving! Couple Questions. 

Have you used or handled the Daiwa Heartland trolling rods? if so opinions? I prefer a trolling rod that is constructed from a long and narrow rod blank. I dont care for beefy trolling rods. Before I purchase some new trolling outfits I would like to see the Heartlands to compare to other preferences, but I cant find Heartlands in columbus; so any opinion/info would be helpful?

Lastly, you mentioned a new rig.?. Have you bought or are you buying a new boat? whats up? :C


----------



## Jim Stedke

Handled yes ... used no, but they are one of the most popular if not the most popular rods, and if I were buying new rods, they would get a quite serious look from me. Them or Okuma would get my business. 

My brother Rich has run Okumas on his charter boat for several years, and they take a pretty serious beating, and there have been some reel seat & grip issues, but whos to say the same would not happen with the Diawas. 

My main point on rods is, get all the Dipsy rods alike and all the board rods alike, both sets do not have to be the same. 

New rig : Scout 221 Winyah Bay w/ 250 hp Yamaha, here's a link:
http://www.scoutboats.com/models/221winyahbay.html

It will be at the dealership for the seminar in Huron (South Shore Marine).

It's a demo, that will make someone a great buy at the end of the season (or earlier).


----------



## Tommybouy

Thanks for the input on the Daiwa Heartland's. That helps a lot! They look like good rods and I will find them to consider! 

There is a lot to like about your demo boat! All glass no wood. The Reverse Shoebox Hull Design is the first Ive heard. I like the design for the rod storage; the rod storage appears to be roomy and might be large enough to store rods with the dipsy's on the rods??? 8 foot, 6 inch beam on a 22ft. boat is strong!!! That design will afford great stability! The layout seems to allow you to use a lot of space to fish where other boats dont allow. You can fish standing on the gunnels of your boat! I like the tournament options with the Aerated Console baitwell and recirculating livewells. The brochure shows Raymarine Electronics, will your boat use Raymarine? I see they are in South Carolina. Also, I think the considerations built into the blue water designs offer advantages to the great lakes. 

Congratulations! This ought to move you around a little faster than your Marinette! Great boat, thanks for the new reading material! Keep taking care of yourself and you should be on your Scout as soon as mother nature allows!

T


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## Jim Stedke

Absolutly it will have Raymarine onboard. C 120 color GPS/Fishfinder, Smart Pilot w/ remote, & radio. 

It should be a fun boat to fish out of, even if I'm well beyond the "standing on the gunnels" thing.

Thanks for the health well wishes, this weather helps with being a good boy.
Besides I'm looking forward to fishing too much to risk a set back.

Good luck & good fishing.


----------



## "EYE" DOCTOR

I have read several posts on this thread about adding lights to board flags. The biggest problem Ive read about so far is that adding the lights or bobbers makes the board top heavy. I dont fish boards but it would seem to me that instead of adding a light to the flag or replacing the flag with a light you could simply paint the flag with "glow" paint. It wouldnt add any weight and it would never need batteries. I dont know how bright it would be but it might be worth a try. If it does get bright enough you could even color code each flag. I have painted bobbers with glow paint and they work well for night fishing you just recharge them with a light when they get dim. You can get the glow paint from Stamina tackle for $3.49 a bottle(1oz) and it comes in 8 colors.


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## Jim Stedke

Bruce DeShano (OffShore's owner) tried to make a flag out of plastic with glow in the plastic and it just didn't glow long enough to be effective. Remember we're using these in the late fall, water temps in the 40s, and the cold deminishes the glow of anything.

Then you might have a problem getting the paint to stick to a formed plastic flag.

Thanks for the post and good fishing


----------



## fishingguy

I am looking to buy some colored markers for adding color to spoons and spinners. What's the best? Sharpies?


----------



## Jim Stedke

Yep, Sharpie fine. I just got a 24 pack (24 different colors). Must be permanent markers. They also make a metalic silver that I'll pick up before Spring. 

Nail polish remover takes it off spoons, but that also cut most crank colors so be careful on cranks.

Thanks for the post & good luck.


----------



## Bob Why

1st for eyesman_01. Around Lorain, Vermilion and Huron we mostly use Channel 79 on the radio. A lot of the guys from OGF will use the same name on the water as they do on here. Some of them you will begin to recognize their voice.
I usually will answer to Bob Why though I fish with both OGF members and non-members. One fishing partner doesn't have a computer. He goes by Viper and will talk to you on the radio and help out if he can.

2d for Tommybouy. The Heartlands are great rods for the money. If you have the dollars check out the Shakespeare Ugly Sticks. 8'3" BWD 1101. They're not a beefy rod. I have used them for both Dipseys and Boards. Only had a problem one time and I think that was caused by a problem in the store or shipping before I purchased it.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Bob, Will those BWD1101 8'-3" rods handle a #1 Dipsy w/ the ring?? I see they don't have a trigger, which is a minus for me. Thanks for helping out with your opinion. Good luck.


----------



## eyesman_01

Bob Why said:


> 1st for eyesman_01. Around Lorain, Vermilion and Huron we mostly use Channel 79 on the radio. A lot of the guys from OGF will use the same name on the water as they do on here. Some of them you will begin to recognize their voice.
> I usually will answer to Bob Why though I fish with both OGF members and non-members. One fishing partner doesn't have a computer. He goes by Viper and will talk to you on the radio and help out if he can.
> 
> 
> Thanks *Bob*, if I get over that way I'll remember, though most of my fishing will probably be starting from Toledo and probably no further east than Kelly's Island. But you never know.
> 
> 
> Spring's coming! I can feel it!


----------



## Tommybouy

Bob Why said:


> 1st for eyesman_01. Around Lorain, Vermilion and Huron we mostly use Channel 79 on the radio. A lot of the guys from OGF will use the same name on the water as they do on here. Some of them you will begin to recognize their voice.
> I usually will answer to Bob Why though I fish with both OGF members and non-members. One fishing partner doesn't have a computer. He goes by Viper and will talk to you on the radio and help out if he can.
> 
> 2d for Tommybouy. The Heartlands are great rods for the money. If you have the dollars check out the Shakespeare Ugly Sticks. 8'3" BWD 1101. They're not a beefy rod. I have used them for both Dipseys and Boards. Only had a problem one time and I think that was caused by a problem in the store or shipping before I purchased it.



A Bob Why..Thanks for sharing the info on your Shakespeare! I was @ Cabelas last weekend and handled mucho rods; I had Shakespeare on the list yet the Shakespeares they had were a limited stock and were not rods that apply to troling. I guessed Cabelas wouldnt be fully stocked yet, but I had to get out of Columbus; I went to Marblehead after Cabelas to continue my get-away 
I need to find a Columbus, OH. dealer w/ these Shakespeare. I found Downrigger model of Daiwa Heartlands @ Buckeye Outdoors but I dont need Downrigger rods. Rods for Planers, Jets, Leadcore and flat line are what Im shopping. A rod that has lasted me 14years is by Bass Pro called the Walleye Signature Trolling Series, 8.5 ft. & retractable (i.e. Pg. 75 - Bass Pro Fishing Master Catalog 2007). They have been great! But I do like to shop and use other new rods and the slimmer the blank the better! I will handle the Shakespeare prior to my purchases! Thank you in advance!

TO ALL OGF'RS - Regarding asking questions on the Ship Shore... You are welcome to contact me anytime and I will give you my facts - good-or-not-so-good; My season begins April 7th after I open my camper on April 1 - call anytime.. Lets Go!


----------



## Jim Stedke

Don't let the downrigger tag on the rods desuade you, many knowledgable fishermen use downrigger rods as Dipsy rods. In fact if you are not going to have a seperate set of Dipsy & board rods, rigger rods would probably be the best choice for double duty.


----------



## Tommybouy

Thanks for the immediate feedback Jim! I agree with the versatility good downrigger rods afford, Downrigger rods can be dual purpose and the Heartland Downrigger Rods had a good tip and construction! The Hearlands I handled were the two piece 8.5 footers and I may purchase those in the end. I do enjoy matching rods specific to the application such as Fireline and Leadcore etc. None are discounted, Im continuing to shop and doddle b/c I simply have time too I enjoy continuously learning and Im getting my fill! Thank you again!

I found Heartland / Sealine combos starting @ 109.99 and top at 120.00 - one heck of a value!!!


----------



## bobby

Tommybouy said:


> I found Heartland / Sealine combos starting @ 109.99 and top at 120.00 - one heck of a value!!!


Wow! Where was that?


----------



## Tommybouy

Bobby, Below is the link. When you cut/paste into the internet address bar this should take you to a page on Fishusa.com that list three different Diawa Sealine/Heartland Combos. Click on either link they will provide the range of options from SG17 & 6.5 rods to SG47 & 10 ft. rods. I shop everything in the winter to help ignore cabin fever. I hope this helps, let me know if you make a purchase!


http://www.fishusa.com/tackleshop/c...8810F3468}&i=417DA9558CF8451E8B526E2312312678

T


----------



## Got One

Tommy, If trying to match heartland rods be aware of the old and new models. I had a tip break on one of my older models and the new graphite has the same model# but quite a different flex to the tip. Just did'nt want you to have the same suprise as I.


----------



## Bob Why

Jim, I normally fish the #1 dipsey with the ring. I agree with you on the trigger, but I've gotten used to theese. One day we broke 2 rods. One of my 1101s and a Fire Fox off a Daiwa AD combo. I think we may have had a problem in the boat where they got jammed or stepped on, two rods in one day. And both different manufactures. If both had been the Shakespeares, I would have said the rod is to flimsy. Both broke trying to release the dipsey. That's the only one in 3 or 4 years of using them.

Tommybouy, Dick's Sporting Goods in Columbus should have them. If not he can get one from a more Northern store to show you. I worked at the Dick's in Akron for 10 years and we always tried to find the product from another of our stores for the customer.


----------



## angler2002

I am looking at purchasing mapping software for my gps. I was wondering if anyone had any preferences or suggestions?


----------



## Hook N Book

angler2002 said:


> I am looking at purchasing mapping software for my gps. I was wondering if anyone had any preferences or suggestions?


What make and model GPS are you refering...???


----------



## Jim Stedke

Hopefully Angler 2002 will return to answer, but in the mean time, let's move on.

We've had fish the high fish while trolling early, drummed into our heads, and it may be as important this Spring, as it was last fall. But let me relate an incident that happened back in the early '90s. 

A friend and I were heading out in early April to cast jigs on one of our favorite spawning reefs. We knew we'd catch a bunch of males, up on top. 

Just for the heck of it, and because I got there the night before and had time to get set up for it, I mounted the mast and put new line on 4 tolling rods. The plan was to stop 2 miles short of the reef and pull 25A Bombers over the deep water as we approached the reef. We just got set up, and here came a small boat, they swerved over to come close enough to see if we were having trouble, and motored on to the reef. As they went by I waved at one of the occupants of that boat who had a trailer in our park. The boat was operated by one of the owners of a prominent bait store in the Catawba area, and I noticed some animated conversation going on in the boat.

Back at the trailer that afternoon the guy I'd seen in the boat, stopped by to see how we'd done. He opened our cooler, and said "I knew it!! Where'd you get those". I told him right where you saw us this morning. And I asked him what the bait store owner had said, as they went by. He said, " Dumb 
sh_t!, You can't do that now."

That was the 1st time I had good success early trolling, and we had no way to reduce speed, so we had to be going 2.3 or more, and we were running 25 A Bombers back 90 - 120' (23 - 26'). 

I'm relating this to let you see that, yes I catch a majority of these early trolled fish high, but always be on the lookout for something to change, and never be afraid to try something different. 

This warmer weather has got my Spring fever fired up. I can't wait!!

Come on Spring!!


----------



## Rednek

There has been considerable talk in this thread about painting dipseys black or dark green, for several different reasons. 

My questions are what type and brand of paint do you use?

Do you need to etch or rough up the plastic surface for good adhesion?

Are you continually touching them up?


----------



## K gonefishin

Hey Jim got a fish location question for you relating to early spring females.

I have had success in the C and D can area, and know G and K are good also. and also just East of Niargra Reef I've got em over there too, what other Can's have you done well at and what other areas do you like to "look" for fish, those girls are always on the move and there is alot of water out there. Do you ever go north of Kelley's and in the south passage north of Catawba near Green and on the south east tip of put in bay and what time of year, pre-spawn locations versus post. I know they will funnnel through the islands and it can be a hit or miss. Any advice for tracking em down. I know I can search for them while running on plane but there is just so much water and good areas just trying to eliminate some of it, or skip it type areas.

Anything you can provide here would be great. 

Thanks

Kevin


----------



## angler2002

I am looking at either the Lowrance LMS-520C or the LMS-527C.


----------



## ezbite

hiramabbiff said:


> There has been considerable talk in this thread about painting dipseys black or dark green, for several different reasons.
> 
> My questions are what type and brand of paint do you use?
> 
> Do you need to etch or rough up the plastic surface for good adhesion?
> 
> Are you continually touching them up?


i used plain old flat black. it kept chipping off around the edges. poor surface prep on my part. i am going to try that spray on rubber coating this year. it said on the can it is "gar ron teed" not to chip. we will see.


----------



## Jim Stedke

hiramabbiff said:


> There has been considerable talk in this thread about painting dipseys black or dark green, for several different reasons.
> 
> My questions are what type and brand of paint do you use?
> 
> Do you need to etch or rough up the plastic surface for good adhesion?
> 
> Are you continually touching them up?


 I can't answer because I've never painted any, Maybe some else will respond.


----------



## krustydawg

hiramabbiff said:


> There has been considerable talk in this thread about painting dipseys black or dark green, for several different reasons.
> 
> My questions are what type and brand of paint do you use?
> 
> Do you need to etch or rough up the plastic surface for good adhesion?
> 
> Are you continually touching them up?


I use the Krylon Camouflage. Put one coat on let dry, put a second coat on. I use the olive color, blends in nicely with the clear Erie waters. I don't rough up the plastic at all but the paint will chip and you may have to touch them up once or twice a year depending on use and abuse.

http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0040424018636a.shtml


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## Jim Stedke

K gonefishin said:


> Hey Jim got a fish location question for you relating to early spring females.
> 
> I have had success in the C and D can area, and know G and K are good also. and also just East of Niargra Reef I've got em over there too, what other Can's have you done well at and what other areas do you like to "look" for fish, those girls are always on the move and there is alot of water out there. Do you ever go north of Kelley's and in the south passage north of Catawba near Green and on the south east tip of put in bay and what time of year, pre-spawn locations versus post. I know they will funnnel through the islands and it can be a hit or miss. Any advice for tracking em down. I know I can search for them while running on plane but there is just so much water and good areas just trying to eliminate some of it, or skip it type areas.
> 
> Anything you can provide here would be great.
> 
> Kevin, I've done well in the alley between the ABC can line and the reefs and north of those cans out maybe 3/4ths of a mile, but to me there's a dead spot from 1 mile north to 3-1/2 miles north of the cans, untill mid May and theb that area can fire up.
> 
> It all is a function of how the Spring breaks and the timeing of the spawn. And I think currents play a role in where the fish go (which highway they take back east). to me there's 3 routes. 1.The south passage out around Kellys then back in towards Huron 2. North and out around N Bass, past Gull Shoal and Kelly Shoal. 3 the northern route that takes tham clear out north of Pelee Island. And those fish get creamed by the gill nets.
> 
> Maybe it's just me but it seems the fish come onto the reefs from east and south and leave to the north, and i fish the east side earlier than the north, but if I can't get things going east, I'm gonna be trying the north edge, even on the first trip and visa versa later on.
> 
> That's probably why I'm always going as fast as I think I dare, it's just so much water to cover.
> 
> Hope that helps, at least a tad. Good luck.


----------



## K gonefishin

Thanks Jim,

I do know the program, my brain is a sponge and want to fill it with as much data on walleye fishing, and I know your on top of the game at ALL times, I had to ask, Travis did a nice article on the wbsa/denied site about these girls it was pretty helpful and I might even print it, anybody who is in the top 10 all the time I try to pick there brain as much as possible most of my fishing is done east of the islands expect for early spring and only been doing it 5 years, I have lots to learn about movement.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Yes, well I guess you can see that Travis & I are on the same page. And I must say, he's a good guy to be on the same page with.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Anyone had their hands on the Rapala's ne Minnow Rap? Are the plastic or wood & do they have rattles?? 

My turn to ask Thanks in advance,


----------



## eyesman_01

Saw them in Wal Mart the other day but didn't pick any up. Bass Pro Catalog says they're built of Balsa. Handled so many baits that day I don't remember if they rattled or not.


----------



## beatsworkin

Here is what Cabela's has on line:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=minnow+rap&noImage=0

If they rattle, I did not see that noted in the description.


----------



## K gonefishin

Don't make Jim work he's still recovering. LOL 

Stock your tackle box with these new Minnow Rap crankbaits and get ready for some lip-ripping action. Rapala's latest bait features Shad Rap action in a natural minnow profile that simulates baitfish found the world over. Made of balsa construction for the best action in any hardbait, these lures deliver a tight wobbling action and come in two distinct designs. The Classic Pattern features a clear deep-diving lip and two No. 3 VMC black nickel hooks, while the Bleeding Patterns are specially patterned with bleeding gills, red deep-diving lip and two No. 3 VMC red hooks for the ultimate wounded-minnow presentation. You'll find these baits to be very effective for walleye, pike, perch, bass and trout, when used either casting or trolling. Per each. 
Size: 3-1/2", 5/16 oz., Dives 5-11 ft.
Available:

Bleeding Minnow Rap
Colors: (588)Bleeding Copper Flash, (590)Bleeding Hot Olive, (589) Bleeding Olive Flash, (591)Bleeding Pearl. 

Classic Minnow Rap
Colors: (551)Hot Steel, (821)Hot Tiger, (021)Firetiger, (017) Perch, (428)Purpledescent, (001)Silver, (010)Shad, (117) Yellow Perch.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The reason I asked, years ago we ran 7 8 & 9 Shad Raps quite a bit, and in cold water situations, the walleyes bite down on them so hard that they puncture the paint, the wood absorbs water and it knocks the lure out of tune. 

You can take them home, let them dry and patch them with epoxy, but you're out of bussiness until you fix it. 

I didn't need any more cranks anyway!!


----------



## eyesman_01

K gonefishin said:


> Don't make Jim work he's still recovering. LOL
> 
> Stock your tackle box with these new Minnow Rap crankbaits and get ready for some lip-ripping action. Rapala's latest bait features Shad Rap action in a natural minnow profile that simulates baitfish found the world over. Made of balsa construction for the best action in any hardbait, these lures deliver a tight wobbling action and come in two distinct designs. The Classic Pattern features a clear deep-diving lip and two No. 3 VMC black nickel hooks, while the Bleeding Patterns are specially patterned with bleeding gills, red deep-diving lip and two No. 3 VMC red hooks for the ultimate wounded-minnow presentation. You'll find these baits to be very effective for walleye, pike, perch, bass and trout, when used either casting or trolling. Per each.
> Size: 3-1/2", 5/16 oz., Dives 5-11 ft.
> Available:
> 
> Bleeding Minnow Rap
> Colors: (588)Bleeding Copper Flash, (590)Bleeding Hot Olive, (589) Bleeding Olive Flash, (591)Bleeding Pearl.
> 
> Classic Minnow Rap
> Colors: (551)Hot Steel, (821)Hot Tiger, (021)Firetiger, (017) Perch, (428)Purpledescent, (001)Silver, (010)Shad, (117) Yellow Perch.



Is it live? Or is is Memorex?


----------



## Hook N Book

Dang, Kgone, after that last post, I'd say you have to be in sales...! If not, Rapala needs to hire you, and quick.


----------



## K gonefishin

LOL Come on man, you're giving me WAY to much Credit, I copied and pasted that from the Cabelas site I don't forget anything expecially when it comes to baits and walleye fishing but dang that is way to much detail for even an elephant to remember. 

I am in Sales though, software though.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

At $7 each, they better bleed, fillet, and zipper the fish as you're reeling it in.


----------



## K gonefishin

That's how I feel about the F18 Floaters they are 8 or 9 bucks, but last fall off 72nd at 100 back they always caught us a couple 9-10 pounders every time I had them out, gotta flat line one at least, I buy one at time so don't sting as bad but still expensive.


----------



## Jim Stedke

I don't know why the cold water fish want to bite down so hard. I had one bite off the back 1" off a Bagley Bang-O-Lure once. 

If you slide 2 fingers under their gill cover to carry them, make sure you don't tickle their teeth, or you'll find out how hard they can bite. 

Man am I getting anxious.


----------



## eyesman_01

Jim, do you ever go after kings? I'm up on the Manistee every year. Catch one of their teeth and you have one nasty infected wound.


----------



## Jim Stedke

I've never fished for them. Should go up with Frank or Steve sometime, but have not as yet. 

Sounds like Bag Balm would be good to have on hand.


----------



## Jim Stedke

We've kinda gotten away from the Q & A here. That's fine, I enjoy the casual conversation. But I'm still here for any Erie Walleye questions. 

If I can't facinate you with facts, I'l baffle you with BS. (shouldn't say that, cause I really don't believe in that ....but I always got a kick out of that saying) 

My approach is more like if I don't know, I can try and find out. Or someone else will likely have agreat answer.


----------



## bobby

Is walleye fishing in the Spring out of Edgewater/Lakewood area in Spring any good? Does anyone jig and minnow in March/April there? I heard some guys say they cast cranks in Spring like they did in Fall. I fish out of Catawba a lot in Spring and understand the bite there because of the spawn. At least when is a good time to start fishing for eyes downtown?

Thanks,

Bobby


----------



## fishingguy

Hey Bobby, if I remember right, it was the beginning of June last year when the walleye bite took off in the Cleve. area. There were some spotty catches off the gold coast in May. I know there are alot of guys here that fish that area and could give us some better info..


----------



## K gonefishin

I already did through PM I fish Cleveland 3-5 days per week.


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## Jim Stedke

K gone, thanks ! I was hopeing someone with more experiance in that area than me would step up to the plate.


----------



## eyesman_01

Hey Jim, I added more lead to the back of those boards as you suggested. They now sit level in the water, up to just below the front release bracket. So I think I now have the attitude and depth. Now all I need is a field test. 

Thanks for all the help.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Good deal. I hope that does the trick. You love it when a big walleye sinks one of them like a bobber.


----------



## ErieAngler

Jim, 

What do you think about fishing Canada? Do you spend much time up there, Chicks, Chickenolee, Ennis? Just curious. My father owned a 26ft Lyman, docked in PC, and we almost always fished The Chicks, Middle Sister and Ennis when I was growing up. We did the West Sister suffle too, but for some reason the man loved fishing Canada.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Before the zebra mussles we canadian rock hoppers deluxe. At times we'd go as far as Colchester or Grub but Chicks or Chickenolee were probably 1 - 2. Seemed it was always just a matter of finding them. 

Guys that went that far and knew enough about those shallows to work them, went going to mess things up for themselves or anyone else. I can remember a day when there were 17 boats working fish on the north end of Sunken Chick. On that step break. Everyone got in line probably drifted 200 yds before you got to the spot, then went 150 yds past, fired up, circled around, and we never blew the fish up. We got tired of waiting in line and went on over to Hen. Most of the guys were charters like Erie Sun, Head Hunter, Sportsman I, and the Channel Grove group. Good guys who knew their stuff. 

Man you're making me realize I've forgotten alot of boat names. 

Good times!! No doubt we fished beside you at times. Our boat was a 1962 28' Chris Craft Sportsman (looked like a Lyman) "Shifless". The guy we sold it to is still running it. 

Thanks for the post and the memories, good luck.


----------



## neffy85

Jim,

Thanks for all of the info. I don't have much experience trolling but I am starting my collection of gear as we speak. 
What I would like to know is the timing of what you use and when. Do you start with smaller cranks and then move to spoons then back to cranks? Do you use different size spons at different times of the year? 
As you can see I am pretty green at the trolling thing?

Thanks


----------



## Jim Stedke

We start with big cranks, at ice out, and stay with them until late may, then small spoons untill the white bass & white perch kill you (mid July), then go to larger spoons, until the fall water temps hit 50 degrees then back to big cranks. Pretty quick answer to a there's no hard and fast rule question, but that sorta sums it up.


----------



## neffy85

That is exactly what I was looking for. I am sure there is no perfect answer, but the guidelines is what I was after. Thanks.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Afterthought ... This should be a great year for midsized baits, like deep liitle rippers or 400 Rip Shads, the 03 fish will be on 2-1/2" shad from mid May - August. so if you're after the 19 - 23" fish, 3/8ths to 1/2 oz deep lures would be good to run in the early Summer.


----------



## eyesman_01

Jim, when you talk about large baits what length are you talking (inches)? I'm not familiar with all the series numbers yet.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The full size Reef Runner (800series), The full size Rip Stick (700 series), the 4-3/4" deep or shallow Husky Jerks, 4-3/4" deep or shallow Rouges. I have a few of the larger size Huskys & Rouges but I start w/ the 4-3/4" size.

Hope this helps, and thanks for the post.


----------



## eyesman_01

That helps very much, thanks. Didn't know what you considered large and small. Looking at a previous post I took it midsize was @ 2-1/2 when you were talking about the '03 hatch being on shad. I just wanted to make sure.


----------



## Jim Stedke

When I say Reef Runner I mean he full size deep diver, I call them by their correct size name. Always. I never call a Rip Stick a Reef Runner, unless I say "Reef Runner Rip Stick" to someone totally unfamiliar with the line.


----------



## eyesman_01

Gotcha. That clears things up even more. Thanks, as always.


----------



## ezbite

hi jim, here's a question about multiple presentations. can i run in-line boards pulling reef runners off one side and dipsys pulling spoons on the other side of the boat? i know that speed will start to become a factor. so that might be a problem. anyway have you ever ran this or have you heard of anyone trying this? does it make more sense to just stick with one set up and switch if it's not working? run boards or dipsy no mixing. thanks


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Hey EZ,

I was pulling 2 boards with cranks, spinners, or spoons and then running 2 dipseys off of the back of the boat most of the time I went out this past year to start with. After I got a pattern going I switched to the best one and went with it.

The key is finding that sweet spot in the speed factor! Need to run the boat fast enough to keep the dipseys running true but not so fast that the boards aren't running right! Mine was about 1.8 mph but yours may be different in the bigger boat!


----------



## ezbite

BIGHILLBILLY said:


> Hey EZ,
> 
> I was pulling 2 boards with cranks, spinners, or spoons and then running 2 dipseys off of the back of the boat most of the time I went out this past year to start with. After I got a pattern going I switched to the best one and went with it.
> 
> The key is finding that sweet spot in the speed factor! Need to run the boat fast enough to keep the dipseys running true but not so fast that the boards aren't running right! Mine was about 1.8 mph but yours may be different in the bigger boat!


thanks, exactly the answer i was looking for. i thought speed was the key


----------



## Jim Stedke

I would add, Dipsy down on the inside and boards out past them (even on the same side) is what we do most of the time. Our speeds are faster 2.1 up to 2.8 mph for spoons on the Dipsys and cranks or Jets and spoons on the boards. If we go to harnesses, then you got to slow down to the 1.7 to 2.3 mph. 

Around Lorain there's so many trash fish that harnesses take a back seat, most of the time. But further east in deeper water they really come into their own. 

This is the way we do it. I know there are is more than 1 way to skin a cat. 

Good luck and thanks for the good question.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Also one HUGE thing that I will add about spinners! I quit buying worms and I only fish with Berkley Gulp crawlers now! They do not get picked off like crawlers do and they last forever if you keep them out of the sun! I've caught 15 fish on one before having to change it!


----------



## Jim Stedke

Good point. with all the 03 fish in the system Gulp should be a stand by on every boat


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

That and with all the gobies in the lake and other bait robbers the gulp is the ticket!


----------



## Two Hip

If I wanted to run 4 dipsys off the rear and one inline per side off the gunnel. What kind of settings on the dipsys would I use to prevent tangles?And,would I have a problem with dropping the board lines into the shoot to land a fish?


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Good question! I would run the inside dipseys on the number one or zero setting off of the back of the boat. The next ones I would run at the 3 or 4 mark off of each side of the boat and then run your boards as you normally would. Landing fish won't be to bad but for the boards try to keep them off to the side. Large fish you'll want to turn into them to make it a little easier. I should say turn the boat towards the side that the fish is going to be landed on.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Dipsy settings depend on where you fish and what you're pulling. West end spoons I'd go with 1-1/2 & 3. For east of Lorain 1 & 2-1/2. For harnesses or stick baits drop them down 1/2 for either area. Which would make it 1 & 2-1/2 for the islands and 1/2 and 2 for deeper water. 

I don't know exactly what you mean by "off the rear". The free area of the "shoot" is important. There will likely be a time when you have 2 fish coming in at one time, and you need all the space you can get. If you have less than 12' between the down Dipsy rod tips, you'd probably be wise to try and increase that, especially if the Dipsy rods are not low to the water. 

All this becomes more crutial if you fish steelhead or salmon. 

This seems like a simple question, but to answer it correctly, I need to think of all the possibilities. 

Hope this helps, kick it back if you are not clear. Thanks and good luck.


----------



## K gonefishin

GULP works great but I don' bust it out till the white bass and sheeps start hitting, last year I used crawlers out west and in Cleveland till late June then the junk fish started coming, but after that GULP is the way to go. Those walleye love the crawlers so I am going to give it to them when I can. Off the bar and in the central and eastern basin is when GULP is the best. I'm already stocked, we where buying over winter, it's gets hard to find.


----------



## Jim Stedke

I guess my point was, if it's July 15th, and you had no crawlers on the boat, a couple jars of Gulp could save the day. Just keep the lid on tight and KEEP IT OUT OF THE SUN. 

Them fish be some bag hombres, if they can stomach that stuff.


----------



## ezbite

reef runner question..i just picked up some rip shads in the 400 and 200 series. once i got these home and started looking at them i am really concerned about the small size of the 200 series. did i waste my money? seems like their better sized for inland walleye. do these catch lake erie walleye and what time of year would be best? early? seems to me that the 400 series should fill my rip shad needs for erie. i did a side by side and the 200 series is exactly as long as a scorpian spoon. maybe there's my answer.are you sucessful with the 200 series or am i just linning someones pockets buying them? they might be smaller but their not cheeper.

what is this RR tuning thing and where can i get one?


----------



## Toolman

EZ,

I've caught some pretty big fish on the 200 Ripshads. They do a good job of imitating young of the year forage in June and early July. One problem is that the hooks are light and will bend out if a big fish gets hooked "wrong".

Tim


----------



## ezbite

Toolman said:


> EZ,
> 
> I've caught some pretty big fish on the 200 Ripshads. They do a good job of imitating young of the year forage in June and early July. One problem is that the hooks are light and will bend out if a big fish gets hooked "wrong".
> 
> Tim


good to see i didn't waste my cash on the other hand i was thinking the hooks were to light. maybe i'll try to replace some with #4's i don't think it will throw off the balance.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Put the 4 on the rear and it will run fine. The "Tune a fish" (reef Runner Lure Tuner can be bought from Reef Runner direct or Vermilion Sportsman's Outpost and I'd guess that Rod Maker would have it as well.


----------



## Silver Streak

For you Glup users...is there any particular size or color that you would suggest? Thanks.


----------



## fugarwi7

Jim Stedke said:


> I guess my point was, if it's July 15th, and you had no crawlers on the boat, a couple jars of Gulp could save the day. Just keep the lid on tight and KEEP IT OUT OF THE SUN.
> 
> Them fish be some bag hombres, if they can stomach that stuff.


What do you mean by jars...the gulp worms I have are in a bag...is there another type or a bulk size available?


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Us guys in the know keep our GULP! in jars.............with our moonshine.


----------



## fugarwi7

Hetfieldinn said:


> Us guys in the know keep our GULP! in jars.............with our moonshine.


No wonder the eyes hammer on them...I might even jump in a chomp on one if they're pickled!


----------



## Jim Stedke

Gulp nightcrawlers come 12 in a jar, not a bag. You'll usually find them with the trout bait also in jars.


----------



## fugarwi7

Jim Stedke said:


> Gulp nightcrawlers come 12 in a jar, not a bag. You'll usually find them with the trout bait also in jars.


Then I got the wrong ones! Oh well, just one more thing I get to buy in preparation for the season...won't be the first, won't be te last!


----------



## ezbite

the ones in the bags are molded and come 10 to a bag. the ones in the jars are extruded and come 12 to a jar. they are both called nightcrawler. i use the 6" 10ct bag.


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

The gulp crawlers I use are the ones that come in the resealable bag NOT the jars! I think the jar ones are smaller?!

I just use the standard crawler color but will play around if the water is dirty! Hot pink works great when the water is really muddy!


----------



## Bob Why

Both the bagged and jared gulp nightcrawlers will work. It's the scent and added size that does the trick. The 4 inch Turtleback worm works to.


----------



## ezbite

Bob Why said:


> The 4 inch Turtleback worm works to.



actually the 4" is the most productive one ive used. i think it's because of the twister type of tail it has.


----------



## Jim Stedke

To increase the action on the straight worms, put a 1/4 twist in the worm between the 2 hooks (or 3 hooks). Otherwise they pull too straight and don't attract much interest.


----------



## eyesman_01

Hey Jim, why doesn't Reefrunner have your pic next to your name on their Pro Staff site?


----------



## eyesman_01

The page won't come up.


----------



## Jim Stedke

I was trying to delete it because it was coming up spam. ????? Sorry I'm not too great at the photo stuff. I tried.


----------



## eyesman_01

I found it.

http://www.walleyecentral.com/tenpoundclub/?PID=383#473

See if that works.


----------



## eyesman_01

There we go. Now I want a hawg like that for my wall. The rest I just want to eat. Thanks Jim. That's an awesome fish.


----------



## Jim Stedke

OK smarty pants ... how come it worked for you??? That's the same address I had.


----------



## eyesman_01

I just went to the site, found the pic, and copied the address bar and pasted in the reply. Don't know what I did different.


----------



## Jim Stedke

I probably did something wrong, but that was the same address. Thanks for baby sitting me.


----------



## eyesman_01

To see a fish like that.... my pleasure.


----------



## Jim Stedke

They're out there ... right now ... just waitin for us. Man am I pumped or what!!!


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Man, what a fish.


----------



## K gonefishin

I'm gonna freak out soon, I can't wait to get a gearred up strap on the face mask, lay the hammer down watch the Ranger climb up and rocket over swells, dump boards, :T and watch em go flying :B . M

Man I am so pumped, Frank and Steve have been over a couple times a week, my living room looks like a tackle shop litterly (i'm live alone so I don't mind stepping over spoon caddy's and crank boxes) , my table is all walleye insider's, in-fisherman, catalogs, they came over last night just to watch the PWT event that was on the other day, Guys I think I have a serious problem, and we ordered enough spinner components to open up our our spinner shop can't wait for our order to arrive at least I can tie up some every night when I am bored. I think at the minimum we can tie up 150 harnesses, the new fishlander blades and beads are the bomb, they have 28 colors of blades I got 5's and 6's, plus a bunch of other ones.


----------



## bobby

Approximately how much line does a 1/4 LB spool hold? I want to fill trolling reels but don't know how much to order. 

Also, using mono for trolling, if I was to order up some big game should I order with clear or green or does it even matter? 

Thank you.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Frank & Steve (as in Kittrick & Carlson?) 

Hey Scott Stecher called ...2 - 4s between his house and Kellys, but he's not been to Catawba, but he'll let me know. 

Won't be long now. 

Are you going to South Shore on Sat??

I'll be there. Hope to see ya.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Bobby, I've used both so I'd say personal prefference. 1/4 # spool of Big Game 10#-1500 yds, 12#-1175 yds, 15# 900 yds. 

Thanks for the post and good luck.


----------



## bobby

Thanks Jim, I thought you might have an idea.

C'mon spring!


----------



## Fish-N-Fool

We head up to S. Bas Island last wekend of April each year and smallie fish for a 3-4 day weekend. This year it will be the weekend of 4/27. This year my buddy and I have decided to take along the eye & trolling gear and we want to run our big boards with cranks. We usually use the dowtown ramp @ PIB.

Open to any/all suggestions - location, presentation, speed, anything?

Jim - what would your first chioce program be and where would you start out?

Thanks!


----------



## K gonefishin

Jim,

No I Frank Zubel my tourney partner (fishon on this site) and my buddy Steve or Viper Steve, I did talk to Carlson at the Strongsville show, great guy. 

I am going to Norton Saturday, what's happening at South Shore?


----------



## Jim Stedke

Kevin, Fishing seminar in the am, electronics seminar in the afternoon. FreeByrd's deal...I'm assisting.


----------



## bobby

Does it make a difference (clear versus tinted)?


----------



## Jim Stedke

Fish-N-Fool said:


> We head up to S. Bas Island last wekend of April each year and smallie fish for a 3-4 day weekend. This year it will be the weekend of 4/27. This year my buddy and I have decided to take along the eye & trolling gear and we want to run our big boards with cranks. We usually use the dowtown ramp @ PIB.
> 
> Open to any/all suggestions - location, presentation, speed, anything?
> 
> Jim - what would your first chioce program be and where would you start out?
> 
> Thanks!


Here's a copy / paste from earlier in the thread:
April 20th...OH YEA nice warmist dark day. Here's the way I'd go.

Area B, C, D & E cans on the outside (north and east). If we leave from Turttle creek I'd proabaly work it from north and west to the east and south. I'd start looking in the B can area off Round Reef and look for those high scattered marks that indicate hunting walleyes. Once I located a nice concentration of walleyes I'd set up 4 or 6 in-line boards depending on how many guys were onboard. (let's say 3 guys - 6 lines). 

The first line in would be a Rip Stick Bare Naked back 45' on 10/4 Fireline (8' deep). Next to it would be a 400 Rip Shad (large one) in Superman color, back the same 45' on Fireline (11' deep). On the inside I'd Run a Deep Rouge Gold w/ a black back back the same 45' on 10/4 Fireline (12' deep).

On the mono side I'd run a Little Ripper Chrome / Blue back back 65' on 10# Big Game (5-1/2' deep), then a Deep Hushy DHJ 10 Clown back 65' on 10# Big Game (10' deep), and on the inside I'd run a Deep Little Ripper, Bare Naked back only 23' to keep it at 8' deep. 

So we have lures at 8, 11, 12, 5-1/2, 10' & 8' deep. My subs would be HJ-10 glass purple perch, Husky Jerks w/ green sides, Rip Stick Emerald Shiner or Eriedescent, Deep Rouge with orange belly & black back, and Reef Runner Bare Nakeds of various sizes. I'd concentrat on the top 12' of water and maybe go as deep as 16', but nothing deeper, even though the most marks will be at 20 - 24' deep in 27 - 32' of water. 

Speed will start out at 1.9 mph and we'll vary that from 1.5 to 2.2 and let the fish tell us what they want this day.

We may not catch huge numbers of fish, but our chances will be as good or better than any other time of the year to catch a 14# plus walleye. 
{end of copy]

Your date is 1 week later, and that should mean that more fish will be closer to S Bass. I'd try 1 to 3 miles west of S Bass, and fish maybe 3 - 5' deeper. Expect the fish to be starting to group up, but they will be in small schools that are hard ro keep track of. Like roving wolf packs. You should have a great time and be able to fish smallies & walleyes both.

good luck and good fishing.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Bobby, No, It's a matter of what you like the most.


----------



## elkhtr

Jim, thanks for the info on the program you would 1st deploy in Mid-April. My question, based on the colors you recommended, (excluding the bare naked color which seem to change as the conditions do); Do you take into account the sky (cloudy/clear) and water clarity when choosing colors? Or do you generally start with those suggested colors and work from there each time? Thanks.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The colors suggested are old standbys that work in the Spring. If you have dirty water (visability of 1' or less) Reef Runners Mud Minnow (an orangish brown) or Texas Red would be the way to go. Super clear water (5' or more visability) the silver metalic lures like Cheap Sun Glasses or Chrome Eriedescent or the prism flash colors. 

Normal water is when you can see your prop. And really anytime you have 18" of visability down to 3' I feel confident that the "normal" colors should work. 

Listen on the radio VHF Ch 79, often you can get a feel for what's going on.

If a cold front comes through expect the walleyes to go belly to the bottom, and run bouncers and harnesses down there ... they'll bite.

If you have other questions, I'd be glad to try and help.


----------



## eyesman_01

Jim, if you could have a custom jig made for walleye, any head style, any hook manufacturer, size, bend, color, etc., use your imagination.... describe it to me. Please.


----------



## Jim Stedke

That's a simple one, my perfect jig is the one the fish are looking for. LOL

OK I'm a smart A$$ 

I like a jig that has it's center of gravity ahead of the line tie. The flathead jigs, like the more popular Purple hair jigs are made on, is probably heaviest up front. For jig fishing on the reefs it would probably be 5/8th oz. w a 3/0 premium (red if available) hook std length. The stinger would be a #4 treble premium round bend short shank (red if available) on a 2" leader. The head would be purple with 2/3rd purple hair 1/3 chartruse and flashaboo tied with pink thread. Oh heck w/ pink and white eyes or Whichcraft glow eyes.

Then the kid in boat next to you will be smokin them with an unpainted jig head and 3" chartruse curl tail.


----------



## eyesman_01

That's kinda the way I figured the story would play out. But you're right, they are so unpredictable you couldn't narrow it down to one design. I've been talking with a friend and business associate of mine (Ted Barry of "Bite-Me" Tackle) about coming up with a design for a walleye jig (he manufactures bass jigs). We have some ideas to try, but i was looking for some "professional" input. We don't want to get into the typical ballheads and such, but hoping to come up with something a bit more unique without breaking the bank to buy them.

I appreciate the input. I see where your ideas can be put to use in something I'm working on.

Hey Het, you thought my other jigs were pretty... you ain't seen nothin' yet.  We'll try losing some of these at the gathering too. :B


----------



## Jim Stedke

Th wt ahead of the line tie means it will drop fast and turn down or kick up it's heels on any slack. Gives you a bit more flexability dragging or casting. The number 4 treble lets you add a couple more minnows, which adds visual attraction. 

(thought I'd explain the whys) Jim


----------



## eyesman_01

Thanks. I hope to see you at the gathering (of course along with everyone else) so you can help us lose some of these also. Show us how to use them.


----------



## Jim Stedke

You'll probably catch me gazing off to the north or east. Trolling early is one of the years high points for me. 

It won't be long now. (like the monkey that got his tail in the fan). LOL


----------



## eyesman_01

LOL I know what you mean. I'm sooooo ready, but then I think of all I still need to do before getting there, and I realize I'm not ready at all. But most everything I need to do yet is on the boat, and I can't do it til the weather clears up. Then I'll be busting my a$$ to get it done (and done right) so I can join you all. Keep telling my wife I want a pole barn so I can work inside.


----------



## Jim Stedke

For sure! Honey I need a pole barn. It would be sooo much nicer if it were heated. and had a concrete floor. and better lighting. and a big screen tv. etc. etc. LOL All we need is a simple lottery win.


----------



## eyesman_01

Well, I bought my lottery ticket tonight..... we'll see.

In an earlier post you had asked about the new Rapala Minnow Rap. I also bought one of these tonight in the Bleeding Hot Olive color. It looks good. I'll be picking more up in the coming days. We'll see how the 'eyes like them.


----------



## Jim Stedke

I think they are wood not plastic. If that's true be careful using them in cold water (under 50 degrees), The big fish may bite through the paint and cause the lure to absorb water and become untunable. (just a heads up)


----------



## eyesman_01

The fish bite harder in cold water? OK... yes, they are made of balsa. Maybe I'll just save those for later in the spring/summer.

Oh, by the way, I didn't win the lottery. LOL


----------



## Jim Stedke

Dern, I was pullin for you (thinkin maybe you'd share) LOL

We had that with Shad Raps years ago when we first started trolling. 

You can fix them by letting them dry out there patching the holes with epoxy.


----------



## jimbobber

i will be using the RR 800 ser. for the first time this year .
using it as a dipsy to get the max deapth trolling

1, what type of line 
2 what lb test 


thanks jim:G


----------



## Jim Stedke

On 10/4 Fireline the lure will go 32' deep with 180' of line in the water.

The "using it as a Dipsy" has me confused. If you're running tandem lures the depth will be reduced.


----------



## jimbobber

yea jim i was going to use a spoon with it . someone brougt it up on anouther thread . 

thanks jim:G


----------



## Jim Stedke

The Scorpion size spoon would reduce the depth by nearly 10&#37;. Larger spoons or stickbaits would make significantly more difference, perhaps as much as 20%. 

Tandem lures must be set slowly to prevent tangles.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> The Scorpion size spoon would reduce the depth by nearly 10%. Larger spoons or stickbaits would make significantly more difference, perhaps as much as 20%.
> 
> Tandem lures must be set slowly to prevent tangles.


Jim SPEAKING ABOUT SPOONS DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE ON THE BEST WAY TO TO RUN A 4 LINE SPOON PRESENTATION.I S THE SCORPION SPOON THE BEST OR IS THERE A MORE PRODUCTIVE SUMMER SPOON OUT THERE THAT YOU LIKE,ANY HELP WOULD HELP A NOVICE LIKE MYSELF.


BUCKEYE


----------



## Jim Stedke

Buckeye, I believe the Michigan Stinger Scorpion takes more fish than any other. Possibly than all others combined. Not because it is so much better but because so many guys run them. There are lots of good spoons and Scorpions are among the best, but Silver Streaks are good, as are Ole Pete's and Pa's and Netcrafts Proeyes. 

It may be blasphemy but for me spoons do not initiate the loyalty the cranks do.

Hope this helps and good luck.


----------



## fishingguy

Hey Jim, I certainly can understand your loyalty to the crankbait! So, {me being a central basin guy}, as long as you have a good quality trolling or flutter spoon, being pulled by a dipsy at a good speed and depth, than you will catch fish. Last year alot of spoons worked, small ones in early summer and larger ones in late summer. Just stay tuned here, you will definitely find out.


----------



## K gonefishin

Last year I ran spoons that never caught fish in years past just to see if they would catch a fish, if not I was sending it to the bottom of the lake, I caugh fish on scorpians with NO paint left and some of the ugliest spoons in the box. Last year was not a good year to get a good hot bait, they all worked, I caught fish on everything in the water last year, all sorts of cranks and colors I never normally run.


----------



## eyesman_01

So maybe with the predictions they're having for this year with the 2003 hatch, it might just be the same scenario?


----------



## fishingguy

We are all hopin and prayin eyesman!!:B


----------



## Jim Stedke

Like FreeByrd says, "the wet lure is the one that catches the fish".


----------



## ezbite

eyesman_01 said:


> So maybe with the predictions they're having for this year with the 2003 hatch, it might just be the same scenario?


you got that one right. come on spring 

for spoons..scorpions by far out produced all others i pulled last year. i fished erie derie leaf type, crocodile, fishlander, gander mtn brand, netcraft and a few others without and name i picked up here and there. i did try other brands because i was trying to find a cheaper spoon. i did find cheaper spoons but they just didn't catch like the scorpions did. the scorpions also outfished the larger stinger spoons too. i will stick with the scorpions in my boat. thats just my 2 cents.im not knocking any brand of spoon i just really beleive in the scorpions.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

I used mostly Silver Streak spoons this year. Mostly due to a personal boycott type thing for the lack of quality in the paint peeling from the Michigan Stingers.

The fish didn't seem to notice the switch. They gobbled them up. I've also purchased some Ole Pete spoons that I'm looking forward to trying out. I know ShortDrift had some good days on them last year.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Medical update. I went to the doctor today. Everything is looking good, and I'm released to go back to work. Thanks for all the well wishes. 

So long as I'm cautious, it should be downhill from here. 

Come on weatherman , give us a break.


----------



## eyesman_01

Key word there Jim... *cautious*. Don't be doing anything to have a relapse. I'm looking forward to meeting/seeing you on the lake. Take care.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Thank you kindly, but I'd rather talk fishing than to talk about the new zipper in my back-side. 

Just wanted you guys to know things are going good.


----------



## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> Medical update. I went to the doctor today. Everything is looking good, and I'm released to go back to work. Thanks for all the well wishes.
> 
> So long as I'm cautious, it should be downhill from here.
> 
> Come on weatherman , give us a break.


great news... i hope we helped you as much as you have helped us. thanks jim  im glad to hear your recovering well. i look forward to meeting you someday. tom


----------



## jimbobber

will here i go changing the subject agine , but i was at gander mtn .today and was looking at the RR 800 and man those things are huge . iam used to something like hotntots or the 400 rip shad . those thing look like there for muskies . and iam new at this trolling stuff .just woundering if anybody has the same thought .


and glad every things all rite jim 


jim:G


----------



## ezbite

im on the opposite end here jimbobber. i thought the 200 series rip shad was way too small for erie walleye but i have been assured their not. as for the deep divers ive seen them in action and there not to big. they don't look so big down the throat of a 6 pounder


----------



## jimbobber

thanks EZ didnt want to sound like a wimp . but i probly did lol


----------



## Jim Stedke

I know it's confusing with the company name being Reef Runner, but when people say Reef Runner referring to a specific crank bait, they mean the 800 series deep diving lure. Tune them carefully and go catch a walleye.


----------



## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> I know it's confusing with the company name being Reef Runner, but when people say Reef Runner referring to a specific crank bait, they mean the 800 series deep diving lure. Tune them carefully and go catch a walleye.


got my tune-a-fish in the mail saturday(along with a few more bare naked 800's)can't wait till im able to try them. i was kind of skepticle when you said to use the tool instead of pliers (i said to myself "i'll just use pliers") now that i got the tool i can see where you are comming from. works so much better than pliers, a much more of a solid grasp on that little eye. once again your advise has humbled me 

speaking of lake turn over in the summer (thermocline), do you really think it plays that big of a deal in the deeper waters off ashtabula? i remember people saying last year they were seeing fish but not able to catch them. the lake turn over thing came up but to be honest it didn't seem to affect us. we just kept filling coolers all year long. maybe it was because of the abundance of the 2003 class. i just saw an infisherman dvd on this and they said the thermocline was down about 25 feet. we were fishing way below that at that time of the year. any thoughts?


----------



## BIGHILLBILLY

Not to sure about the thermocline and it's affects on the fishhing but most of our fish last summer came from about 40 feet which would have been 15 feet deeper then the thermocline.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The thermocline in the central basin at depths below 65' has always been at 50 to 56' (or at least that's were it's been everytime I've seen it).

The turnover is pretty usually easy to discern. The water takes on a funny milky color, and there will be slimmy green bottm algae in clumps on the surface. The water temps will be uniform from top to bottom and the reason fishing can be tough is the fact that the bait needs a few days to get acclimated and reorganized.

Hope this helps, and good luck.


----------



## fishkiller

You can also see this layer of cooler water on your sonar
if your sensitivity is turned up high enough. It will appear
like a fuzzy line.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> Buckeye, I believe the Michigan Stinger Scorpion takes more fish than any other. Possibly than all others combined. Not because it is so much better but because so many guys run them. There are lots of good spoons and Scorpions are among the best, but Silver Streaks are good, as are Ole Pete's and Pa's and Netcrafts Proeyes.
> 
> It may be blasphemy but for me spoons do not initiate the loyalty the cranks do.
> 
> Hope this helps and good luck.


Jim 
Do you think the gold back on the Scorpions is the big difference from other spoones ?


Buckeye


----------



## Jim Stedke

Actually it's the copper backs and hammered copper in particular that's getting the most attention the last couple years. But the golds have a significant following as well.


----------



## Bob Why

Jim, glad to hear that you are well and fit to go back to work. That must also
mean that you are fit to fish. Good Luck and we will look for you on the lake.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Fit to fish ... sure. Fit to go 40 miles in 7'ers, I don't think so. I'll need a smidge of TLC for a couple more weeks. Thank you and let's hope the weather man gives us a break soon.


----------



## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> Fit to go 40 miles in 7'ers, I don't think so.



is anybody??


----------



## reo

Jim Stedke said:


> The thermocline in the central basin at depths below 65' has always been at 50 to 56' (or at least that's were it's been everytime I've seen it).
> 
> The turnover is pretty usually easy to discern. The water takes on a funny milky color, and there will be slimmy green bottm algae in clumps on the surface. The water temps will be uniform from top to bottom and the reason fishing can be tough is the fact that the bait needs a few days to get acclimated and reorganized.
> 
> Hope this helps, and good luck.



Don't forget about the smell


----------



## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
What is a good length of a snubber? First year of using power pro line with my dipsy's so I have read you should have a snubber, but i don't know how long of one to purchase!!
Thanks,
Ron


----------



## Jim Stedke

I'd go with Amish Outfitters 9". Here's a link.
http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomf...=1&remove_url=http://www.amishoutfitters.com/

Wow I had no idea it was that long. www.amishoutfitters.com & click on shockers

Good luck.


----------



## Toolman

Hey Ron,

The snubbers Jim is telling you about is identical to the one I had hooked on my dipsey last Saturday at the seminar. Amish Outfitters makes some great Lake Erie trolling products.

Tim


----------



## Buckeye306

Toolman said:


> Hey Ron,
> 
> The snubbers Jim is telling you about is identical to the one I had hooked on my dipsey last Saturday at the seminar. Amish Outfitters makes some great Lake Erie trolling products.
> 
> Tim


WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE SNUBBER ? I NEVER USED ONE BEFORE,I VERY SELDOM LOSE A FISH THAT HITS WHILE I AM TROLLING.



BUCKEYE


----------



## K gonefishin

They are used as a shock absorber, because braided line has no stretch they are needed. I don't really use them for walleye as much unless I am fishing spoons Avon to the east where I will get a mixed bag of eyes and steelies. 

Steelies will hit your bait so hard some shock is needed, expecially going at summer speeds of 2.7-3.2


----------



## Buckeye306

K gonefishin said:


> They are used as a shock absorber, because braided line has no stretch they are needed. I don't really use them for walleye as much unless I am fishing spoons Avon to the east where I will get a mixed bag of eyes and steelies.
> 
> Steelies will hit your bait so hard some shock is needed, expecially going at summer speeds of 2.7-3.2


what happens if you have no snubber?Is it just a harder hit?I guess I donot understand the meaning of shock,are you saying you lose more fish because of a hard hit without a snubber.


Buckeye


----------



## K gonefishin

Well it's tough to say I'm not a fish and I can't see underwater, depending on your leader strength the steelie might wack it so hard, the fish might bust your spoon right off if you do not have a snubber, if you have never fished dipsey's and spoons for steelies, wait till you see your first couple hits you will know what I am talking about. 

You don't even need to look at your rod tips, the rod will bang bang bang violently and drag will start singing after there initial jump or two. It's weird as soon as the nail it 20-40 down they are on the surface almost by the time you get the rod out of the holder. They are probably the most fun fish to catch on Erie. 

I added some pictures to my gallery that my buddy Tom took (Peerless out of Edgewater) he was super quick on the draw and caught a couple pictures of steelhead jumping when they where hooked up, you can see the bend in the rod already and they haven't even starting running yet. Dude your blood will boil when they take off, such a riot. 

If it's a mixed bag just use them. Steelies are so strong and with non stretch line I think the biggest thing is having little "give'' in your setup otherwise they hooks will tear out of there mouth when they run. 

Fishing for them can be challenging, although very very fun, you will lose lots of fish anyways with or without the snubbers, if you look at steelie reports you will see guys say went 6 for 10 on steelies or 12 for 18, walleye reports just say how many they caught for the most part. Losing steelies due to there violent jumps runs twists and turns is what makes it so fun. There even hard to net sometimes, crazy fish.


----------



## Buckeye306

K gonefishin said:


> Well it's tough to say I'm not a fish and I can't see underwater, depending on your leader strength the steelie might wack it so hard, the fish might bust your spoon right off if you do not have a snubber, if you have never fished dipsey's and spoons for steelies, wait till you see your first couple hits you will know what I am talking about.
> 
> You don't even need to look at your rod tips, the rod will bang bang bang violently and drag will start singing after there initial jump or two. It's weird as soon as the nail it 20-40 down they are on the surface almost by the time you get the rod out of the holder. They are probably the most fun fish to catch on Erie.
> 
> I added some pictures to my gallery that my buddy Tom took (Peerless out of Edgewater) he was super quick on the draw and caught a couple pictures of steelhead jumping when they where hooked up, you can see the bend in the rod already and they haven't even starting running yet. Dude your blood will boil when they take off, such a riot.
> 
> If it's a mixed bag just use them. Steelies are so strong and with non stretch line I think the biggest thing is having little "give'' in your setup otherwise they hooks will tear out of there mouth when they run.
> 
> Fishing for them can be challenging, although very very fun, you will lose lots of fish anyways with or without the snubbers, if you look at steelie reports you will see guys say went 6 for 10 on steelies or 12 for 18, walleye reports just say how many they caught for the most part. Losing steelies due to there violent jumps runs twists and turns is what makes it so fun. There even hard to net sometimes, crazy fish.


Wow they sound fun Kevin I only caught two of them last year and both times it was on a crank fishing off a sr-22 board,and both times they was a sirprise when I started to reel in the line they was on there.I normally chase Walleye but maybe I should look into some Steelie action in the fall.

Buckeye


----------



## K gonefishin

I'm not sure where your normal ramp location or boat dock is but any waters starting at the 40 line off Avon all the way to NY is good, we start fishing for them in June (depends on water temp) and start looking at 62 fow later when the water warms we move to 65-67 this is off Cleveland and the "hole" can be good for big walleye and steelhead, off the Chagrin he 00 line can be good it's about 20 miles from shore. 

It's weird sometimes you won't even mark them on the fishfinder but you can get doubles and triples going, once you hit one, you will normally find more.

In the early fall, they spead out go more east or toward Wheatly Ontario. 

Off Geneva, Conneuat, and Ashtabula, starting in June you can get them all the way till September or later. I fish for them around the river mouths and get em on cranks or spoons in close in 10-20 FOW. 

Lots of steelies in the lake all over.


----------



## Jim Stedke

We run them all the time with Dipsys. The steelhead & the big walleyes make them beneficial if not nearly necessary. 

Steelhead attack a lure at speeds around 25 mph. I've seen them break 15# leaders without tripping the Dipsy (don't ask me how that's possible).

I've never seen them cause a problem on the eyes.


----------



## K gonefishin

Yep they will bust leaders, salmon will take the whole rig. I would love to attach a camera to a rigger ball so I can actually see them whack it. Priceless. 

Someone sent me a video on YouTube of guy spear a walleye in Ontario, kind of cool.


----------



## Buckeye306

K gonefishin said:


> Yep they will bust leaders, salmon will take the whole rig. I would love to attach a camera to a rigger ball so I can actually see them whack it. Priceless.
> 
> Someone sent me a video on YouTube of guy spear a walleye in Ontario, kind of cool.


I am hearing alot of you aces that talk about Dipsys alot ,I never hear you chat about Jets is that because you never use them ? Is the Dipsy superior to the Jet ?
My thinking is that the Jet will produce more hits because it will be more suspended than the Dipsy.
Maybe I need to learn more about Dipsys.



Buckeye


----------



## K gonefishin

Of course we use them...I don't run big boards to much so I am a dispey guy or I'll run 4 dipsey's and 2 jets off inline boards both presentations will shine on any given day that's why us walleye guys carry all the stuff we do, you never know what your going to use. 

Dipsey's have good action due to wave surges and underwater current, the jet will run side to side a little bit and also fluxuate in the water column a little bit. 

Either is superior, depends on what the fish like and want not us fisherman. 

It all depends, if your a Erie troller IMO it's a must to learn both jets and dispey's to consistantly produce in big open water.


----------



## Jim Stedke

There is no quicker way to catch a fish and reset the line, then a Dipsy. So if the fish will bite a Dipsy or a Jet equally, you spend more time fishing and less time setting with Dipsys. On top of that Dipsys adjust instantly at the reel. If you want to adjust a Jet you must bring it in, and reset it. 

We have nothing against Jets, but Dipsys are hard to beat, once you get onto them.


----------



## ERIE REBEL

Hey Jim here is a change of pace for you.When do you think things will start popping on the reef complex.Just an educated guess will do.I'm saying two to three weeks.Your predictions please.Hope the recovery is still going well.Take care bud.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The reefs will start to produce significant numbers when the moon starts to go to full again (roughly 10 days), and it will continue to improve to the full moon 14 days after that. How good it gets depends on water temps, but it will be fairly good regardless.

So your 2 - 3 weeks is right on.


----------



## Bob Why

Jim, I had to read your post on jets and dipsys twice to be sure I understood it. So I will interpet! A jet is normally run off of a board. So if you want to put it out deeper or shallower, you have to pop it from the big boards or reel in the inline board and send it out to the proper depth and then reattach it to the big board or put on an inline and send it out. With the Dipsy you just let more line out or crank some in. Of course if the Dipsy trips then you have to bring it in to reset it. Still takes less time than a jet.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Thanks for the translation (from fishin idiot to plain English). You got the point.

As an aside I haven't caused a false release while adjusting a Dipsy in 3 years

To emphaisis just how much faster Dipsys are let me relate an incident with Scott Stecher that happened 2 yrs ago. 

We were running 4 Dipsy a side and doing pretty good, and we set 1 Reef Runner out on an inline board (experimental color). Probably 150' back.
The board line fired, and at nearly the same instant a Dipsy on tthe opposite side fired. Scott took the board rod, and I grabbed the Dipsy. I caught the Dipsy fish, netted it, boxed it, and reset the Dipsy while watching for Scott to be ready to unhook the board (which was not that far out - the same as the middle board in a 3 board set up). As I took Scott's board off an other Dipsy fired, I handled that fish and rest. Scott was not ready for the net. One of the other guys caught a 3rd Dipsy fish and reset, then netted Scoot's fish as he brought it in. 

That was an "in your face" happening that emphasized just how much faster Dipsys are. Without having been there and seen it, I'd say that 2 fish could be handled, but it was 3 and no one was out to prove anything. 

Kinda open my eyes.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Mr Stedke,

have you had a chance to check out the Walker 'Deeper Diver' that will be available soon?

By the looks of it, it seems that the old mouse trap has had a few improvements (no rings, smoother release, indexing adjustments).

I was wondering if you've looked into them, and what your opinion on them might be.


----------



## K gonefishin

Jim Stedke said:


> Thanks for the translation (from fishin idiot to plain English). You got the point.
> 
> I know sometimes when I try to explain thing I sometimes wish I could say meet me at Edgewater and I'll just show you.
> 
> I tell guys over and over again, if you want to learn how to troll, run programs and baits the best thing to do is just hook up with a guy that knows the deal and your "lesson" in a couple hours time is priceless.
> 
> Viper205 has been learning from me since last fall, he's got trolling with dipsey's and cranks down pat boards and all in just a few trips, he asks the right questions, read magazines, watch shows and he'll be able to put fish in the boat everytime out by himself, and he does.
> 
> I'll take anyone out if time and schedules allow. I love teaching guy the tricks of the trade, and I love being taught also, I actually have school next week, tying spinner rigs. I can't wait, that way I can pass it along.


----------



## Toolman

Jim,

Faster isn't always better. Sure dipseys are fast, but I bet the crankbait fish was as big as the three spoon fish combined  (You know how I love my cranks)!!:B 

I do have to admit though, dipseys are an incredibly quick and effecient way to present a variety of baits.

Tim

PS-It's not too far off no! :B


----------



## Jim Stedke

Hetfieldinn said:


> Mr Stedke,
> 
> have you had a chance to check out the Walker 'Deeper Diver' that will be available soon?
> 
> Yes I've handled them and I think they're going to be good.
> 
> Why the Mr.?? You a State Patrolman or what???


----------



## Jim Stedke

Actually Tim One of the 3 Dipsy fish was as big as the crank fish. But you're right. Day in day out ... you catch yours on cranks, while I catch mine on Dipsys w/ spoons, and you box will out weigh mine everytime.


----------



## BFG

Regarding the Walker mini-divers...

I picked up 4 at Birch Run last week. Three are fine, one has an issue with the tension screw. My buddy bought 4, and one of the welded rings is not welded. He had to replace it with a large split ring. The small ones were $5.99 at the show plus tax. 

There is a thread about it on GLA Ask a Pro. The President of Walker responded that there "were no big issues with the mini's releasing when tested"...and " if you are having problems with them tripping, just crank 'em down so that they do not release at all.." Time will tell for me...they seem nice, but none of that will be 100% until we start to run them this year. 

I responded accordingly. I do not need another diving disc that does not trip. The unit is packaged so that you cannot handle it prior to purchase. Be sure to look them over thoroughly...but in all reality, they seem solid for the most part. 


BFG


----------



## Hetfieldinn

I was a little skeptical about the ability of the mini disks to trip. It just doesn't seem like something of that size would have enough resistance to release the tripping mechanism.

I rarely use the mini Dipsys, so I don't see myself using the mini Walkers, but I think the larger ones and the magnum will surely have their place.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> Hetfieldinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Stedke,
> 
> have you had a chance to check out the Walker 'Deeper Diver' that will be available soon?
> 
> Yes I've handled them and I think they're going to be good.
> 
> Why the Mr.?? You a State Patrolman or what???
> 
> 
> 
> Jim
> Are you running mini diver dipsys,while using cranks or are you running the big dipsys.It seemed to me last year when I tryed the mini dipsys that they did not get deep enough.
> 
> 
> Buckeye
Click to expand...


----------



## Jim Stedke

I have said nothing about mini Dipsy or Big Jon diving disks. When I speak of Dipsys I mean the large size #1 with the ring. That's all we run.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Hetfieldinn said:


> I was a little skeptical about the ability of the mini disks to trip.
> 
> Het, Remember when you want ti trip it, it should have a fish creating additional resistance, But I won't use them. I want and need them deeper to not interfere with the cranks or Jets (in the Summer).


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> I have said nothing about mini Dipsy or Big Jon diving disks. When I speak of Dipsys I mean the large size #1 with the ring. That's all we run.


Thanks Jim
Thats what I thought but I really wanted to clarify.I really am trying to learn more on the Dipsys.


Buckeye


----------



## Jim Stedke

In reading my reply, it sounded like I was being short. I didn't intend that. Clearification is always a good thing. I certainly appreciate your help. If you were unclear, very likely others were as well.


----------



## Bob Why

Hey Toolman, You know Jim runs shallow divers behind dipsys, so his 3 fish could have been as big as the one on the crank. I have taken a lot of big fish off of cranks in the spring and fall. My biggest though came off a Stinger Spoon behind a dipsy in June. About a mile off the breakwall at Lorain. Go figure.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Bob. The 13-1/2 that Freebyrd & I entered in the Hog Fest in 2003 was a spoon fish. Scorpion at that. We've caught many oversize fish on spoons. Likely because of the wet lure rule.


----------



## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> Likely because of the wet lure rule.



ok, i give. what is the wet lure rule?


----------



## Jim Stedke

The lure that is wet is much more likely to catch a fish than one that is dry.

Or your confidence lure works for you because you have it in the lake alot.

We catch many large fish on spoons because we run spoons most of the time.

Just being cute (or trying to be) ,,, sorry.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> The lure that is wet is much more likely to catch a fish than one that is dry.
> 
> Or your confidence lure works for you because you have it in the lake alot.
> 
> We catch many large fish on spoons because we run spoons most of the time.
> 
> Just being cute (or trying to be) ,,, sorry.


Jim
DO YOU PREFER SPOONS OVER CRANKBAITS.


----------



## Jim Stedke

No, if I can catch the same number of fish on spoons or cranks, I'll probably run the cranks because cranks have a tendency to catch larger fish (GOOD TENDENCY). But charters whos focus is numbers, run spoons primarily because of their ability to produce numbers, (and because Dipsys are easy once you get onto them). 

This all started as a discussion about the fact that Dipsys are quicker to reset than boards, and went from there. 

I should be able to say, I'll fed em whatever they want to eat, but we all have our weaknesses, mine is big fish, so that leads to a crank preferrence. But we've caught many large fish on spoons, because in the summer, that's what's happening out of Lorain. 

Often to get the Reef Runners deep enough you have to add weight, and that can lead to tangles, so to keep it simple and trouble free, the cranks get pushed aside (on the charter boat).

If I'm fun fish I bout always have a couple cranks working.


----------



## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> I'll probably run the cranks because cranks have a tendency to catch larger fish (GOOD TENDENCY).
> 
> 
> If I'm fun fish I bout always have a couple cranks working.




i understand the wet lure rule now. i have heard you guys talking about it but just didn't know it. humm. maybe i need to spend more time at the bait shops after were done fishing 

glad to hear it about the cranks. because before the trip i took with shortdrift at the end of november last year i had about 4 reef runners, now im up over 60 (expensive winter) so i REALLY hope your right. iam on a hunt for big fish this year. i will not be happy without the 10 pounder or better. i will be VERY disappointed without one. :S 

sorry i got off fishing........but im serious as hell about this


----------



## Jim Stedke

If you are serious about big fish, be serious about fishing in April near the reefs and November in the Huron/Vermilion area, with cranks. Or the other option would be Fairport to the state line in the summer, with harnesses or spoons.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> No, if I can catch the same number of fish on spoons or cranks, I'll probably run the cranks because cranks have a tendency to catch larger fish (GOOD TENDENCY). But charters whos focus is numbers, run spoons primarily because of their ability to produce numbers, (and because Dipsys are easy once you get onto them).
> 
> This all started as a discussion about the fact that Dipsys are quicker to reset than boards, and went from there.
> 
> I should be able to say, I'll fed em whatever they want to eat, but we all have our weaknesses, mine is big fish, so that leads to a crank preferrence. But we've caught many large fish on spoons, because in the summer, that's what's happening out of Lorain.
> 
> Often to get the Reef Runners deep enough you have to add weight, and that can lead to tangles, so to keep it simple and trouble free, the cranks get pushed aside (on the charter boat).
> 
> If I'm fun fish I bout always have a couple cranks working.


Thx Jim that said alot and made alot of since,you are truely the walleye guru in the world.

Buckeye


----------



## Jim Stedke

Wanna buy an autograph ? LOL Thanks


----------



## Jim Stedke

[QUOTE=ezbite iam on a hunt for big fish this year. i will not be happy without the 10 pounder or better. i will be VERY disappointed without one

Ez, Bill Parrish was a charter boat captain and a lure manufacture that fished out of Channel Grove years ago (he's dead now). His personal biggest was 7-1/2 pounds, so 10s aren't automatic, and the big fish hay days are history. Not to say you can't do it, but it won't come easy.

NOW go catch one on your first trip!!


----------



## Two Hip

I am with EZ.It has been since the early 80's since I've broke the ten pound mark,and it is hard to hear about alot of fisherman breaking that mark when you're not.Don't get me wrong I am very happy filling a ticket on spoons and dipsys,but I have increased the arsenal to include inlines and a lot of cranks just for this purpose.With the boat in the western basin for most of the season now I am hoping to latch into one early in the season.If not there is always the fall further east.I also hope to learn more about the ways of the bronzeback.


----------



## Buckeye306

Two Hip said:


> I am with EZ.It has been since the early 80's since I've broke the ten pound mark,and it is hard to hear about alot of fisherman breaking that mark when you're not.Don't get me wrong I am very happy filling a ticket on spoons and dipsys,but I have increased the arsenal to include inlines and a lot of cranks just for this purpose.With the boat in the western basin for most of the season now I am hoping to latch into one early in the season.If not there is always the fall further east.I also hope to learn more about the ways of the bronzeback.


I have never took in a 10 pound plus in the lake but have seen a few that was over 10 caught out of the Sandusky river.The river can produce big fish.



Buckeye


----------



## ezbite

Buckeye306 said:


> I have never took in a 10 pound plus in the lake but have seen a few that was over 10 caught out of the Sandusky river.The river can produce big fish.
> 
> 
> 
> Buckeye


some years back i got one over 12# in freemont wading. like i said that was some years back. i ate it and can't find the picture of it anywhere. im looking for a wallhanger. come on mama erie...:B


----------



## fishingguy

I've caught 2 over ten, 1 10 lb plus and 1 11 lb plus. Both caught ice fishing, both on the same white swedish pimple. Not the same day. I lost the biggest one I ever had on a line. I was fishing, believe it or not, in the Eastlake CEI intake cut. It was huge, my brother had one chance to net it and he missed! Not his fault, was very difficult thing to do with such a hog in all that heavy current. There ya go, now you know one of my secret places. Tried to go back in there a few years ago and it was off limits.


----------



## Jim Stedke

fishingguy said:


> I've caught 2 over ten, 1 10 lb plus and 1 11 lb plus. Both caught ice fishing,
> 
> We got 2 on March 12th in '87 on Pimples out of a row boat off Marblehead. 10# 3oz & 11# 4oz about 5 minutes apart. At that time we'd only caught 1 other over 10# casting in 20 plus years of fishing.


----------



## Jim Stedke

This warm weather will help with the ice, but if you and I were going out with water temps under 45 degrees, I'd have you look over the side of the boat and ask you what you see? 
When you say "just water", I'd say "no, that is death. Right there! Just waiting for a small mistake." 

You can't be too safe, with cold water, ... reliable equipment is a must,

We want to continue to talk with you, not about you.

I've fished ice out for 15 years, but it still raises a certain uneasiness. It's best to have a friend in another boat close by. The lake is brutally unforgiving right now.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim
I understand everyone prefers black Dipsys when trolling,will this go for Jets also? How is everyone turning these nice colorful dipsys and Jets if needed Black?Do I need to paint? or will perminent marker work ?




Buckeye


----------



## Buckeye306

Would you prefer to trol cranks or jig hair jigs in this period when looking for trophy fish ?



Buckeye


----------



## Bob Why

I've painted both my dipsys and jets unless they are clear or black already Try Kryoln Fusion for Plastic.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Buckeye306 said:


> Jim
> I understand everyone prefers black Dipsys when trolling,will this go for Jets also? How is everyone turning these nice colorful dipsys and Jets if needed Black?Do I need to paint? or will perminent marker work ?
> 
> Most just spray them, I'd use a primer on the metalics.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Buckeye306 said:


> Would you prefer to trol cranks or jig hair jigs in this period when looking for trophy fish.
> 
> 
> For big fish you'll want to troll with Reef Runners, Rip Sticks, Rouges (deep & shallow) and Huskies (deep & shallow)


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Buckeye306 said:


> Jim
> I understand everyone prefers black Dipsys when trolling,will this go for Jets also? How is everyone turning these nice colorful dipsys and Jets if needed Black?Do I need to paint? or will perminent marker work Buckeye


I've been using the same can of flat black grill paint for the last three years. Hit the Dipsy/Jet with sandpaper for about 15 seconds, then give it a few light coats of spray paint. It will last a long time.


----------



## Jim Stedke

No arguement sanding is always a good substitute for primer.


----------



## bobby

What sizes and brand duolock snaps do the trollers use to connect to cranbaits?

Also, what about swivels for harnesses and spoons?


----------



## Jim Stedke

bobby said:


> What sizes and brand duolock snaps do the trollers use to connect to cranbaits?
> 
> Also, what about swivels for harnesses and spoons?
> 
> I use a round bottom duolock snap about 5/8ths" in length for cranks, the Sampo Coastlock #1 (30#@test) on leaders for harnesses & spoons.


----------



## Jim Stedke

My must have Reef Runner colors for Erie : Bare Naked, Bubble Gum, Eriedescent, White Purple Tiger, Wild Thing, Rainbow Trout, Fruit Loops. Emerald Shinner, Blueberry Mufin, Purple Prism, Pink Lemonaide, Chrome Blue back.

I'm sure I'm leavin some out, but I'll have these fer sure.


----------



## silver shad

Jim what size reefrunner do you mostly run
500,600,700,800?:G :G :G :G


----------



## J.W.

This year I have deciced to switch my board rods from mono to Power pro and from inline boards to big boards. I have used them before but is there any key differences to avoid losing fish?

Also I have trolled in April around the islands and have caught many double digit fish, however I have a buddy that wants us to take his boat and vertical jig the reefs. I fish 8 mos out of the year and I'm looking for trophy fish at that time, not filling the freezer. How can I convince him into trolling?

Thanks J.W.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Reverse your order and you have it 800, 700, 600, 500 but stick in the 400 Rip Shad as well. They work wonders on the 03 fish.

Probably 90+&#37; of our fish come on 800s just fot clarity.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Simple .... agree to go jigging till a set time, then head off trolling. A couple hours jigging should either get you your fish or get him ready for trolling.

Power Pro, loosen the drags, consider going to longer softer rods, and stop cranking when they slam on the brakes and start shaking their head (you'll know when it happens). To propperly work a big fish on superbraid it should take you twice as long to bring it to the boat as it would with mono. 

Good luck, catch one for me, and be ready for a surprise on how the fish react to being hooked up.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim
I understand Dipsys and Jets should be painted black because they will not be seen as well,my question now is on the snubber you guys are using,do you do anything with that or have a special color to use ? It seems to me that if you color a Dipsy, you should color the snubber also..



Buckeye


----------



## Jim Stedke

The snubbers we use all the time on Dipsys only, are white. Made from silicon rubber that doesn't rot. It's not so much a color thing as a reflection thing for us and there is no reflection from the snubber, we've never worried about their color.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> The snubbers we use all the time on Dipsys only, are white. Made from silicon rubber that doesn't rot. It's not so much a color thing as a reflection thing for us and there is no reflection from the snubber, we've never worried about their color.


You would not paint Jets unless it is a mirror image plastic.I have some that are soft with brite colors but no return mirror reflection.



Buckeye


----------



## Jim Stedke

the only Jets whos color would concern me are the metalic colors, the clear ones, translucent green, or flat colored ones I'd fish as is.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

I've noticed that all of the charter captains on the Vermillion River use the same color Jet Divers-translucent green.


----------



## Jim Stedke

Many of the charter guys get so good at follow the leader that they forget they have the ability to work their own programs. So it's somewhat typical that you see the same set-up on every boat. At Fairport I remember noticing that they all had flat green Dipsys with yellow rings. 

Yea!! I've got a brother that's a captain, but he still knows how to find his own fish and work his own programs.

I'm not trying to sound negative, it's a fact of life.


----------



## ERIE REBEL

I took all of my pretty metallic jets and sprayed them flat black.And it did make a difference.


----------



## Jim Stedke

It seems to be particular important for fish above 25' and when the water is fairly clear. But the black is never a negative.


----------



## jshbuckeye

Well i have the off shore boards, 8'6" TDR rods for boards a set of okuma convector 30 D line counters the question is when reading the lit that came with the reels and in the other mag i seen where it stated that the catalina was desighned for braided lines and the counters on the convectors were desighned for mono do to the line diameter makes me second guess putting on braid. any thoughts or expereience with this. If mono what brand and weight is recomended. Nope havent changed out the front snaps on the boards yet next week
________
Herbalaire


----------



## Jim Stedke

Some guys use 40# test braid (Power Pro) for the reason that it has approximatly the same diameter as 10# mono, and makes using Precision Trolling easy. 

So long as you have the reel full, I doubt there would be too much difference in line out at a reading of under 200'. At 8' per pass (just a guess) that's only 25 passes, so I don't think the difference would be huge. I'm guessing that the difference between the braid and the mono wouldn't be any greater than the difference from one reel to another using mono. 

Let's not forget the main issue is repeatability, not an exact measurement. 

I hope this helps, and good luck.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> The snubbers we use all the time on Dipsys only, are white. Made from silicon rubber that doesn't rot. It's not so much a color thing as a reflection thing for us and there is no reflection from the snubber, we've never worried about their color.


Please excuse me for asking the simple question,I just want to learn and get it right from the best that Erie has.
Is this the way you would present your line -Dipsy- leader-snubber-lure.




Buckeye


----------



## fishingguy

dipsy, snubber, leader, lure.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The snubber goes right behind the Dipsy, between the Dipsy and the leader. Here's alink to the ones we use:
http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomf...=1&remove_url=http://www.amishoutfitters.com/

we use the 9"


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> The snubber goes right behind the Dipsy, between the Dipsy and the leader. Here's alink to the ones we use:
> http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomf...=1&remove_url=http://www.amishoutfitters.com/
> 
> we use the 9"


Thx that makes more since.See I am just a novice.


Thx Buckeye


----------



## Jim Stedke

No problem. I've said it before. The only dumb question is the one that doesn't get asked.

Happy to help. We all were beginers once.


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim 
There was a earlier thread that asked about weather they should jig fish off the reefs or trol the Islands,you sugested they jig than trol.
My question is will you find bigger fish off the Islands or in front of the reefs trolling cranks.


Buckeye


----------



## Jim Stedke

Buckeye306 said:


> Jim
> 
> My question is will you find bigger fish off the Islands or in front of the reefs trolling cranks.
> 
> This Spring open water is coming so late that the ice out jig bite may be almost over before many get access to the lake. There will be big fish caught off the islands, all around the reefs, 1/2 mile off the cliffs of Catawba, out by Green Island, and on and on.
> 
> So I quess the answer is yes to both places.
> 
> It's a matter of getting enough info to know where your best chance is. The folks at Happy Hooker won't know what's going on North of Kelleys Island, and the guys at Hyway Bait won't know what's happening near the Nuke Plant. I'm trying to say bait stores get regionalized. They know what's happening near by but I wouldn't look for solid information about an area 15 or 20 miles away. Not in the early Spring at least.
> 
> The reef complex is the draw. There are more fish in that area, so I'd say get over that way. The L shaped area formed by A B C D E F cans is 10 or more miles long and if you widen that line out to 1-1/2 or 2 miles you've got a large area to work. Too large to cover effectivly. So it's good to have some reliable firends who give you a starting point.
> 
> Now when your buddy tells you they smoked em yesterday 1/2 mile Northeast of C can . That doesn't mean you should go pound that spot and then bitch him out cause you didn't catch any. That means you should start looking 1 or 1-1/2 mile away as you approach, spend a little time scoping things out and set up on the best concentration of fish that you find. These fish are moving following bait and thay seldom stay put. So when I say starting point, I don't mean start fishing ... I mean start lookiing.
> 
> My plot trails from the Spring look like a 4 year old wondering in a pine forrest. Act like a beagle that has lost the bunnies scent. Loop out 1 way ... then an other. If 1 area cools off, go find a different one. Spring trolling is seldom fast fishing, and 1 pull back an hour is a fairly good day, but keep in mind you are on top of the best concentration of oversized fish, that anyone has the opportunity to work all season long. And the next bite may be an 11, 12 13 pounder or larger. Stay focused and be patient.
> 
> Good luck. (man talking about it makes me want to go.)


----------



## jshbuckeye

thanks jim i appreciate all the answers and other great info you and the others have provided. I am hoping for my best yr on the water in a long time and a good part of it is putting into use the info i am gathering from this site/thread. I dont know of any one magazine that would give so much great advice and in depth coverage ecspecially for a targetted area when the season is here this thread needs to be condensed and printed somehow. 40# power pro is the next buy thanks again
________
EASY VAP VAPORIZER


----------



## Jim Stedke

Thanks for the kind words. Happy to help. Good luck and catch one for me.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The post about the dirty (but warmer) water below reminded me that it is very common for the fish to pile up in the warm dirty water early. In fact you should almost expect the dirtiest water to hold the most suspended fish. These fish are very neutral to negative, and it close to a total waist of time to fish for them. 

I've jigged for them when you could literally feel the jig landing on & hitting the fish, and they ignore it. 

Get in the transition water and work out as far as 1/2 mile in the clearer water. That's where the biters will be. I've done quite well in areas with very few marks, close to dirty water that was loaded with fish. 

Fish the dirty water if you must, but there is nothing that takes my emthusiasm away as fast as trying to catch a fish in water that you can't see deeper than 3 or 4" down.


----------



## Papascott

Jim, Looking at the long range forcast there appears to be minimal rain and some stable weather coming for the next week or so. If you were to guess as to how long the water would take to clear up around the reefs area if the wind stayed resonable? I have spent quite a few days jigging in that cold mud and until they are up on the reefs it seems as it was pointless other than to actually knock of the cobwebs. Thanks


----------



## Jim Stedke

Scott, My guess would be 4 days, but that's totally dependent on winds under 25 mph. 

Guys are going to start popping their corks, if things don't straighten out.


----------



## jay2k

I'll be "popping my cork" on Saturday if the winds cooperate. Turtle creek area I hope. This week looks good for stable weather.


----------



## Buckeye306

jay2k said:


> I'll be "popping my cork" on Saturday if the winds cooperate. Turtle creek area I hope. This week looks good for stable weather.


Hold on to your cork there is lots of ice all the way from the mainland to W.Sister.
I guess if we could get a big 25 mile hr wind out of the South we would be ok.



Buckeye


----------



## eyesman_01

I'm anxious too, but the boat's still not quite ready yet. I'm out working on it today. Time to go is so close, I figure I'll be ready within about 2 weeks with no major setbacks. By then hopefully all the ice will be gone and the 'eyes will be on the reefs. I too would hate to make that drive and not be able to get out, or worse, back in. Be careful guys, patience is in short supply this time of year. We don't need any accidents.


----------



## Jim Stedke

I'm not getting any younger, but I've got way too many walleyes to catch yet in my life to take any unreasonable chances. 

Electronics go into the Scout tomorrow, I'm getting around nicely without the cane, and the 1st tournament is in 12 days. Spring is a little over 8 hrs away. 

LIFE IS GOOD !!


----------



## eyesman_01

Best of Luck to ya Jim. Win a few for the home team.  Glad to hear you're getting around well. We'll be waiting to hear the results.


----------



## FreeByrdSteve

Jim Stedke said:


> I'm not getting any younger, but I've got way too many walleyes to catch yet in my life to take any unreasonable chances.
> 
> Electronics go into the Scout tomorrow, I'm getting around nicely without the cane, and the 1st tournament is in 12 days. Spring is a little over 8 hrs away.
> 
> LIFE IS GOOD !!



Just opened up the boxes from Raymarine for the Scout 221 Winyah Bay. I'll go over the dash layout tomorrow... Spring may start in less than 6 hours but SUMMER starts within the week - when the boat get's splashed! We may run her some tomorrow or Thursday.

Steve


----------



## Buckeye306

Jim Stedke said:


> I'm not getting any younger, but I've got way too many walleyes to catch yet in my life to take any unreasonable chances.
> 
> Electronics go into the Scout tomorrow, I'm getting around nicely without the cane, and the 1st tournament is in 12 days. Spring is a little over 8 hrs away.
> 
> LIFE IS GOOD !!


Thx Jim 
You provided alot of great info to the average walleye fisherman on this site.



Gary


----------



## Jim Stedke

Hey, the pleasure was mine. And besides .... the walls .... show no wear. 
I was and I am happy to help.


----------



## Eye Spy

I have a trolling question for you. In the early spring and fall, when trolling reef runners and such, do you use a leader, or attatch your baits directly to your line? 
Ryan


----------



## Jim Stedke

I only use leaders behind Jets & Dipsys. I know some guys use leaders with Superbraids to get a little snubber effect, but I use mono most of the time with boards and with mono a leader is a total waist of time.


----------



## jshbuckeye

Was looking to putting the P.P. on my trolling reels and got a lil surprise at the price to fill them both full of P.P Does anyone fill them with PP or is 200 to 275 yrd of backing what most people use to then put on 300 yrds of 40 pound PP
________
Fix ps3


----------



## Toolman

I (and everyone I know) fills the spool with backer under the main line. I use 12 or 14# mono. Put the amount of main line on the spool first then fill the reel to it's capacity with backer. Reverse this onto another identical reel or repeat the process 2X onto spare line spools then back onto the reel you wish to fill. Gets you right on the $$ for capacity. I use 450' of braid main line on top of my backer.

Tim


----------



## Jim Stedke

There's no reason to put all that PP line on. The backing can be any mono, but the backing needs to be put on under quite a bit a tension (about twice what you'd usually use). This will prevent the backing from collapsing or crushing under the Power Pro. 

I use the Power Pro for 2 years, then reverse it and use the line underneath for 2 years. That takes the sting out of the cost.


----------



## Hetfieldinn

Toolman said:


> I (and everyone I know) fills the spool with backer under the main line.
> 
> Tim



What am I, chopped liver?

I don't use backer under my braided line. Each linecounter gets 300+ yards of the good stuff. I use it for 2-3 seasons. When it starts looking worn, I reverse the line onto another empty linecounter, and I have fresh line for another couple of seasons. It might be a little pricey filling eight rigs, but you only live once.


----------



## jshbuckeye

Het i like your way of thinking and a 1500 yrd spool would let me do a abu garcia 5600 also. Would make reverseing the line easier and if for some god awful reason i lose alot of line i could then add backer to it. question is how do you spill the beans to the wife baby think i could get a hundo for some fishing line. thinking it , typeing it and practiceing the question is one thing but stepping up to the rubber and throwing that slow sinker out there is scarey she will eather watch it come in and watch it drop out of the zone or drop the head of the bat and crush it over the centerfield fence theres always the chance she swings over the top of it to. Shes a great lady and without her i would be lost and she almost always says go for it. think of me though if i am not able to post for a while
________
Ferrari dino engine


----------



## rippin lip

what is the most common everyone runs? 30lb moss green power pro? - does anyone run the yellow or the red power pro? just curious. - this question is for pulling dipsy divers.


----------



## Jim Stedke

The yellow is good for Dipsy rods because it makes the splits between the rod tips more obvious. And it lets the netter find the line faster.


----------



## jshbuckeye

oh great i just ordered the moss green and loving it
________
Ship Sale


----------



## Jim Stedke

Hey, It'll be fine. They all end up sorta white by the end of july anyway.


----------



## ezbite

im already spooled with 40# yellow for this year. last year used 30# green without any problems stregnth wise. BUT... like jim said it was a bit hard to see in low light conditions when i was looking to net the fish.

jshbuckeye, with the 1500 yrd spool i got i was able to put 300 yrds each on 6 set ups. i know thats 1800 yards and i still have more on the spool. maybe they just messed up. i know i was suprised.


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## jshbuckeye

well im still typeing why i ever doubted her is beyond me. EZ im hopeing my fish are big enough to see to net as not to have to look for the end of the line  sorry had to. well got the or 18 clips today line and a handful of reef runners will be here on the second and i know a place that is getting the bare nakeds in wont say when or where hehe till i land em. Going to have to pull a cpl buckets to slow me down but for perry county thats not even very hillbilly. 2.9 is as slow as she will go so what 2 buckets with a 3 inch holes in em. I can cut a circle out of plywood to lay in the bottom of the bucket with a 2 in hole and so forth to tweak it any thoughts on this. Do i need to weight one side of the bucket to keep t from spinning and should there be a tag line on the back to pull it out of the water.
________
Lovely Wendie


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## Jim Stedke

I have no experience with buckets, so I can't provide much insight. If I were going to recommend the size on a pair of bags, it would probably be 30"ers. Although 24"ers may work. 

Good luck and let us know how it goes.


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## ezbite

i use the buckets in 2 footers of more, high winds or when i don't have the control i want with the kicker and troll with the main motor. made them up to try before i spent the cash on the bags. they worked so good i just kept using them 

get 2 of the same buckets, 4-3/8 stainless washers, 50' of 3/8 anchor line, a 2" hole saw , a 3/8 drill bit and a lighter.

cut a 2" hole in the center of each bucket bottom, drill 2-3/8 holes close to the rim(1") opposite of each other. cut the rope into 2 pieces (25' each) melt all 4 ends with the lighter to keep it from fraying. (if you use wet fingers when its melted you can twist the rope into a point without burning your fingers), stick an end into each hole (i went outside in) put on a washer and tie a knot. you will have a great big rope handle. have someone hold the bucket you pull the handle to streach out the rope, when you find the center, tie about a 1' loop. this will always hook over your bow cleats. you can adjust how far back the buckets ride by shortening the rope ends inside the buckets. i just left the extra rope. might want to make them longer again someday. thats how i did it. im sure there's many, many ways to do it. these worked all season for us. just be careful to keep them far enough forward so they don't get caught in the prop. mine only go about 2/3 the way back. by the way..much cheaper than bags. but you also need a place to store 2-5gal buckets(really 1 because i store them 1 inside the other.


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## ezmarc

I do my braid differently than the time consuming method that it seems most use. Besides I'm not really a detail oriented person when it comes to fishing anyway but here is my method as tainted as it may seem.

For dipsy's: I use 30/8 power pro or 30 pound fireline in green or yellow (I used to use 20 pound but had a few breakoffs and almost always during a PWT tourney). I fill the reel with 10 pound XT or 12# Silver Thread (whichever spool I grab). I then run 300 feet back to the spool and then fill it with my preferred braid. I rarely run more than 120' on a dipsy so that gives me plenty of room to snip off chafed ends and any knots that may develop. I get more than 300 feet with the PP and less than 300 feet with the fireline as I should because they are different diameters.

On my board rods I run 15 or 20 pound test power pro and again fill the reels with mono but only run off 200 feet back to the mono spool and then add the Power Pro.

I also have reels with Power Pro line that is 5 years old and it has never been changed or reversed (one of them brought in that 14.5 last Xmas Eve). I know others that have had their power pro on for longer than that. I find that my reels break down before the Power Pro does.


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## silver shad

Do you guy run mono or braded or fireline with you inline boards

thanks
dave


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## Jim Stedke

I run mono a majority of the time (with Cranks). Braid has it's strong points, and many excellant fisherman are using it. My personal prefference is mono.


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## ezmarc

I carry both but typically use braid more than mono. I never use mono with more than 100 feet of line between the lure and board. If I trolled as fast as Jim I'd probably use more mono however, it's way more forgiving and you'll have less lost fish, especially at speeds over 1.5.

I'm going fishing now. Good luck to those that make it out to the mud. Watch for reports to begin on Denied (and here) tonight or tomorrow. 

This may be the latest I've ever started on Erie. Man what a long winter after such a great start in December!


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## silver shad

what kind and what size mono do you run.


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## BCranky

Not sure if this was asked before, but what procedure is best when simply checking the outside board for weeds or other. For example if you just want to change lures on the outside boards do you need to reel the inside board all the way in first. When a fish is on the outside board it helps cause the fish drags the board to the rear, but with no additional weight on the line I see no other way around it.


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## Jim Stedke

silver shad said:


> what kind and what size mono do you run.


 I use 12# Berkley Big Game. Tuff, abuse resistant and cheap. You can aford to change as often as you like.


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## Jim Stedke

Free spool the inside board back far enought to allow the outside board to clear in front of it by 20 or 30 feet. With no fish dragging the lure should stay deep enough to not cause any problem. Once you're past it, bring it back into place.


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## Buckeye306

Jim 
Have you been out fishing yet,and if you have did you do good.
I have been out twice trolling the picket fence area and done ok,but not as many fish in the area as past years.


Buckeye


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## Jim Stedke

Freebyrd & I were in the LEWT Tourny today. Entered 1 fish. tough bite for sure. We caught 1 on Fri (but only fished about 1-1/2 hrs., 2 on Sat, and 1 today, nothing over 4 pounds. Lots of fish around, but they must have sex on their brain. (once a year ... can't blame em)


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## Tommybouy

Good job with limited pre-fish time and in such tough conditions!


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## Tommybouy

I failed to mention that its good to hear the hip surgery has afforded an early beginning to your 2007 season and I hope the new boat ran well !

T


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## Jim Stedke

The new boat ran just fine thanks, and the hip tolerated a bumpy weekend nicely. Just needed to find the biters and didn't get that accomplished.


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## Buckeye306

Jim
How long do you think it will take the lake to clear after a real high wind and storm roll threw? I would imagine the lake is a mess after all the wind we are getting.
Do you think that the jig bite will be gone before the lake clears ?




Buckeye


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## Jim Stedke

The jig bite will be around through the next full moon and at least a couple weeks, past that. The lake will likely be fishable in 3 days after the wind lets up. So there's going to be lots of opportunities to get after them.


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## Jim Stedke

Before this thread rides off into the sunset, let me say thank you to the fine folks here at OGF, and thank you as well to all who participated.

I'll be available if anyone wants to ask more questions directly, and I'll check this page from time to time, to add my input when it seems appropriate.

I hope you enjoyed the info. It was a definate benefit to me, and I truely appreciate the opportunity.


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## eyesman_01

Glad to be part of the "Therapy". I learned a lot from this thread, and now planning to put it to use starting this weekend. Hope to see you there.


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## reo

Jim Stedke said:


> Before this thread rides off into the sunset, let me say thank you to the fine folks here at OGF, and thank you as well to all who participated.
> 
> I'll be available if anyone wants to ask more questions directly, and I'll check this page from time to time, to add my input when it seems appropriate.
> 
> I hope you enjoyed the info. It was a definate benefit to me, and I truely appreciate the opportunity.



*THANK YOU* JIM for one of the most informative threads ever!
reo:T


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## Chucky

Over 20,000 viewed and 580 post i'd say you did a great job Jim. Thanks for all the info. even if i didn't ask anything i sure learned alot.


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## Barcelona

Hey Jim. 

Great forum for me since this will be my first real season up at Erie trolling alot. I have read all 58 pages and the question that I have is if using the Power Pro or another braid do you still set the hook when trolling. I would assume not since there is no strech, but my experience with braid is minimal.


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## Jim Stedke

I was going to say that you never set the hook when trolling, because when you see the rod move, the hook is being set by the forward motion of the boat, with any and all lines.

But .. (there's always a but) .. when I think about it, when you are slow trolling (under 1.5 mph), there are times when it seems important to get pressure on the fish as soon as possible. It's not really a hook set we're talking about, but you do want to load the rod and put additional pressure on the fish. 

I think it's because you are going slow enough, that all the fish has to do is give a couple good tail strokes and he has eliminated any tension on the hooks, which makes it easy for him to shake free.

I hope this helps. Give me a follow-up if you need to.


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## Turbo

Jim, have read every post - wow great information. I am from South Dakota and going to fish Wednesday April 25th through Sunday April 29th. Had a couple questions:
1) Do you remove the split rings on all cranks and clip the duo-lock directly to the eyelet or do you clip the duo-lock to the split ring?
2) Where should me and my buddy go to get the best information on where to start trolling? We will be staying on Put-In bay.
3) We will be trolling with a 26ft bay liner and 15HP kicker. Rigged with two big skis and masks so will run cranks off of these. Is this setup better than using boards? How far out should we run the skis off the side of the boat?
4) Jigging will probably be difficult in this boat but will try if we cannot hit them on cranks - given current conditions what part of the reefs should we start hunting?

This is all new and exciting fishing for me. I run cranks alot at Lake Oahe but it is nothing like Erie - any time you are out this way I will give you all the latest on SD lakes.


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## K gonefishin

I think you emailed me from Walleye central or I saw you on walleye central, I don't know I had lots of people contact me lately from WC stop by at turtle creek and have a cold one in the evening when everyone is drinking and hanging out, you'll find a wealth of information talking to all of us.


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## eyesman_01

Kevin, he won't be there til after the outing.... 25th-29th. Turtle Creek seems to be a ramp of choice for a lot of OGF members. Just look for the logo on the trucks and boats.


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## K gonefishin

DOH, skipped over the dates I did see Bayliner with a kicker somewhere though, talking bout coming down to Erie,


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## Jim Stedke

Turbo said:


> Jim, have read every post - wow great information. I am from South Dakota and going to fish Wednesday April 25th through Sunday April 29th. Had a couple questions:
> 1) Do you remove the split rings on all cranks and clip the duo-lock directly to the eyelet or do you clip the duo-lock to the split ring?
> 2) Where should me and my buddy go to get the best information on where to start trolling? We will be staying on Put-In bay.
> 3) We will be trolling with a 26ft bay liner and 15HP kicker. Rigged with two big skis and masks so will run cranks off of these. Is this setup better than using boards? How far out should we run the skis off the side of the boat?
> 4) Jigging will probably be difficult in this boat but will try if we cannot hit them on cranks - given current conditions what part of the reefs should we start hunting?
> 
> This is all new and exciting fishing for me. I run cranks alot at Lake Oahe but it is nothing like Erie - any time you are out this way I will give you all the latest on SD lakes.


1.I leave the split ring on.
2. Man I don't have clue where to get info at PIB. Probably right at the dock, talking to other fishermen.
3. The big boards shouldn't hurt you. But with only 4 lines, little boards would be fine also (but don't run out and buy in-lines.)
4. I like to start drifting up the slope on the windy side. If you have a mapping GPS come up the slope at the steepest area on the windy side. Best results will likely be dragging the jigs not casting them. 

I don't know how fast your boat trolls but be prepared to get down to 1.5 at least (while trolling). This may require bags.

Best of luck, be safe.


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## Turbo

Jim and OGF members, would it be better to stay near Turtle Creek than Put-In Bay? Ideally we would find a marina close to the reefs that is protected, has fish cleaning stations and we could leave the big Bayliner docked in the water. We would need to find a hotel or better yet some type of resort with cabins so we could cook some of our own meals that is within 5-8 miles from the marina. My partner is a Put-In bay fan but no access to bait and probably not as much fishing information. 

What are your recommendations?

Kevin, I did post on Walleye Central. This site seems to be much better for Lake Erie. I did fish Erie once last year with the same partner and big Bayliner - very bad results. 13 hour drive for only 2 fish -so this year I am trying to improve my chances and learn how to catch fish on Erie. Even though we did not catch much being on the big water is truly an unforgettable experience. Hoping we do better this year. 

Any change any of you OGF guys will be out fishing during the 25th - 29th?

Thanks,
Turbo


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## K gonefishin

What's up Turbo I knew I saw you somewhere, yeah this site is way more friendly and much better detailed information than WC along with less attitude much more making fun of people, teasing, bashing all done in a nice fun friendly way, lots of great frienships for all to be created from this site. 

Put in Bay is good for partying but fishing not so much. around PIB yes but as far as a place to stay etc, there season is just getting going up there right now and would image not a ton of stuff going on over there yet. 

Lots of people from OGF will be fishing the 25th thru the 29th just come back and check around in this forum you'll see much given info. Even more that the tourney's will be over by then but then shutting up for the next one on May 5th. still lots of info to be taken in though. 

Turtle creek and Fenwick both have fish cleaning services and cabins, I can't help you with a ton of options as far as where to stay because I stay at the same places and I'm local so I just make the trip back and forth to home. others will chime in I'm sure


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## Jim Stedke

Turbo,
I'm not the guy to ask about rooms. We've always had a trailer up there. But, if you stay at Turtle Creek, you'll be in the heart of jig fishin, and if you stay closer to Catawba or on S Bass, you'll be closer to the trolling areas. So in my mind it kinda depends on what you want to do.


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## Turbo

Jim, we are going to focus on trolling. Since we are staying at Put-In Bay would you recommend looking for marks around middle-bass or rattle-snake or would you head straight to the east/north-east of the reefs around the C-D-E can area and hunt in 24-26 feet until we find marks? This is my thought because is appears from reports that the spawn is still at a high point. Makes sense to me that majority of big females will be suspended off the reefs versus around the islands by next Tuesday. Sounds like numbers would come from jigging but we want troll for trophies.


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## Turbo

Kevin, see you have a Ranger. Researched over six months laboring between a Ranger 620 and the Warrior V203. Hope I made the right decision. This trip we will have the big ocean boat - I guess 26 ft is not big for Erie but is huge for Lake Ohae South Dakota. Any chance you will be doing some fishing the end of next week? I know you are in the tournament this week-end but if you are going to be out on the water would like to give you a call.


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## K gonefishin

Yeah I have a Ranger 621 photo's in my gallery, IMO Ranger or Triton are the two best glass eye boats you can get, quality, resale, dealer support, fit and finish, rough water ride, and IMO the ranger is a better value, due to the trailer being custom and absolutley perfect for the boat and a few other things, Like FLW contingency money. and it's a ranger period, I do like the triton's a close second and really couldnt decide but I've just always wanted a Ranger since I was a kid. 

I am not fishing the MWC this weekend, I fish the LEWT Trail here in Ohio. My lips will be loose till the week of the tourney. Will not be out fishing next weekend out west, I will fish Cleveland sunday night but that's it, I'll be in Colubus visiting my brother.


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## Jim Stedke

Turbo said:


> Jim, we are going to focus on trolling. Since we are staying at Put-In Bay would you recommend looking for marks around middle-bass or rattle-snake or would you head straight to the east/north-east of the reefs around the C-D-E can area and hunt in 24-26 feet until we find marks? This is my thought because is appears from reports that the spawn is still at a high point. Makes sense to me that majority of big females will be suspended off the reefs versus around the islands by next Tuesday. Sounds like numbers would come from jigging but we want troll for trophies.


 It's not far (4 miles or so) from Green to C can, so it's no big deal. If you're staying at S Bass, try this. Run out west about 2 miles and put Perry's Monument right in the middle of Rattlesnake. Look for marks there. It won't be crowded and if the fish are there, they'll usually bite. If nothing marks, work your way to C can, get on the 28' breakline and track it south or west (whichever is more convenient). When you mark em ... catch em. Good luck, and catch one for me.


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## Jim Stedke

Some of the reports seem to indicate that guys are suprised by the fact that when you jig shallow in the daytime, you catch males. You should not be, because in essence you're fishing for males. The real surprise would be if you'd happen to catch a female. 

We used to jig the reefs quite a bit, and if memory serves me right we caught as many steelhead, as we did female walleyes. (1 of each) in 7 or 8years of fishing the reefs regularly (and we haven't done it for around 10 years).

Back then if there were 5 boats on the reef, it was crowded. 

I did run up and fish (trolled) Sunday. We caught 14 and dropped that many or more. 

The guys must have a pretty good contact with the man in charge .... they couldn't have got better weather for the gettogether. 

And now the wind is crankin again !!


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## Papascott

Jim, it is funny you bring up not catching females on the reefs. This past weekend I caught 2 differant fish both dripping eggs in the boat, while jigging in tight. While cleaning the other fish I had at least 2 more that were either spawned out or were not mature enough to have full eggs sacs. They looked like regular spawn sacs but much smaller. This was strange as I had only ever caught one other female in the past 12-15 years I have been doing this.

Scott


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## Jim Stedke

You had to be in a peck spawn situation. Did you have males following hooked fish right to the surface? I've seen it when as you netted a hooked fish, you accidently netted others that were attracted to the thrashing hooked fish. 
When this happens, you know they're spawning heavy. And there's no reason to keep other fish, because you'll have no problem catching your limit.
I would guess there were frequent splashing sounds as females come up to shake out eggs. Pretty cool to get to see and hear this yearly ritual.
Gotta love having the walleye capitol of the world close by.


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## Turbo

Jim hitting the road this afternoon from South Dakota. Looks like rainy weather in store for us with some wind. We are still going to fish. Any new recommendations given the week-end trolling experience and any thoughts on technique changes given we will trolling in rain - most likely?


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## Shawn Philbrick

Jim, we had three followers on Sunday.


I thought my 7 yr old was crazy when she told me that she had 2 fish......but she did
when I got to her with the net

she had a follower...........

the other two were small males (maybe not even legal) that followed up hooked fish.


but we never hooked into a female at all.........


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## ShutUpNFish

To Jim Stedke: I hope you're well by now and/or on the latter end of the road to recovery!

This is more of a comment than a question about fishing....but when I finally think of a fishing question, I'll sure know where to be directing it!

I'm an avid fisherman from PA and totally impressed with what I've read here. I just about read every question and anwser on this whole thread...it could actually be the reason I can't think of a question to ask on my own so I'd call this quite educational! I guess I'm so impressed because it is something that I'm totally NOT used to coming from where I'm from. I do a lot of fishing on Erie and in Western PA, but NEVER have I seen this sort of thing. The generosity of people helping other people....or should I say sportsmen helping other sportsmen. Its truly an amazing and great thing to witness. I guess I'm in such awe because I myself am an educator and educators give of themselves without question or second thaught and I respect that. I, however, do not see these kinds of attitudes where I come from too often, so it is rather refreshing as a matter of fact. I even sometimes find myself getting caught up in the attitudes that I'm surrounded with and it bothers me. Often times, my anger gets me into arguments if you will. I will admit though, that I like this a lot better. 

Bottom line is this. I have a passion and that passion is fishing, that was instilled in me by my dad. And I'm sure many of you share that same passion with me. When I see a site deticated to the sport of fishing, I guess its only natural for me to expect to talk about fishing...MOSTLY anyway. I happen to be a member of another Erie fishing site somewhere along the line. Sometimes I question whether "FISHING" is what that board is really "mostly" about. I'm certain about one thing; they sure could take some lessons from what I see going on around here AND they sure couldn't carry your jockstrap when "FISHING" is concerned!! I'm glad I found OFG and Thank you for being here. We are all fishermen/sportsmen/women....no matter where from or what walk of life. You have proven that we are ALL in this together. And thats pretty damn cool!!

Paul B. Fec


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## Buckeye Ron

Jim,
Do you think the walleyes will still be around the reefs this coming weekend? I have another person who couldn't get over what everone did this past weekend and wants to come up this weekend. Any help appreciated as always.:F 
Ron


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## Jim Stedke

Buckeye Ron said:


> Jim,
> Do you think the walleyes will still be around the reefs this coming weekend? I have another person who couldn't get over what everone did this past weekend and wants to come up this weekend. Any help appreciated as always.:F
> Ron


 Unless we have a heat wave, the fish (males will stay on and around the reefs for a couple weeks (for sure till the next full moon).


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## Jim Stedke

Turbo said:


> Jim hitting the road this afternoon from South Dakota. Looks like rainy weather in store for us with some wind. We are still going to fish. Any new recommendations given the week-end trolling experience and any thoughts on technique changes given we will trolling in rain - most likely?


Turbo,
From S Bass you can go west east or north ...really. The area north of North Bass to the border (not far) will hold fish, and there are fish north of Kellys also. The slot between Middle Bass and N Bass is worth checking out as well (and as I said before out west with the Monument over Rattle Snake). 

You can hide from the an east or west wind in the lee of S Bass. Worh the 28' breakline on either side. You should have a great time. Trolling speeds should be in the 1.4 to 2 mph range.


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## ShutUpNFish

Okay, I finally thought of a question to ask you Jim.

I primarily fish the "Big Pond" in the Central to Eastern basin out of Walnut Creek in Erie, PA during the summer. Last year, the bite was pretty good just about all summer in anywhere from 35 to 60 foot of water. My question to you is this; During the late spring and summer months, after the reef bite, in the Port Clinton area....Do you begin trolling around the reef areas or do you head East for deeper water. And what are the hot tactics for trolling at that time? I generally use worm harnesses, spoons or plugs behind dipsy divers. I also purchased a downrigger this past winter for variety and deeper water. The main reason I ask is that I liked the area so much that I'd like to spend some more time out there this summer. Thanks.


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## Jim Stedke

Paul,
The larger walleyes are moving away to the east right now. Typically the areas north of N Bass over to N of Kellys is good, as is the area further east of Kellys. The simple truth is that once you get past 5 miles east of Kellys (in front of Huron) there is very little pressure on water more than 10 miles off shore. The fish are there, but the fishermen find closer in fish, so no one bothers the line much untill the steelhead guys at Lorain get out there in July. 
The larger migratory walleyes follow the smelt, and harnesses are the best smelt imitators going. You guys have the smelt, and harnesses rule east of Fair Port.
In the islands in May, June & July you can catch walleyes anyway you want to fish for them, (including wt forward spinners on and around reefs like Gull, Kelly Shoal, the Canadian reefs, and around Pelee Island).
Hot tactics for trolling would be small spoons behind Jets, but Dipsys will work also. Dipsys area fast and easy if you know them, and the reason Jets are popular is because of the multiple line possibilities. But for 2 or 3 fishermen, Dipsys are hard to beat. Speeds are 2.1. - 2.7 so cranks can be run w/ them, if you like.
The 03 fish should provide plenty of action, but larger fish will not be numerous. 
Hope this helps, and thanks for the question.


----------



## ShutUpNFish

Thanks Jim....your reply led me to a couple more Qs and I should be done....

The jet divers, are they not directional divers like the dipsys? And how can you run multiple lines if they're not directional out to the sides? I'm assuming that you need the different sizes and run them stacked pretty much? I bought one last year and ran it straight out the back of my boat with little luck...any suggestions?

Finally, I'm looking to purchase a couple of trolling rods for running dipsys/jets and using with my downrigger. What action and length of rod do you recommend? I already have two Okuma MagnaPro 30 line caounter reels I'm looking to maych up with rods. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jim Stedke

Paul, Jets are non-directional. Most take them out to the side with planner boards. The little boards do a surprisingly nice job with Jets, and of course big boards will work also. They don't go as deep as Luhr-Jensen's literature suggests. 

Rods 8' med action rigger rods rated for up to 20 or 25# test line would be needed to handle the Dipsys and would cover the other options. The most critical aspect on rods is to find one that you like and get them all the same. It dramatically shortens the learning curve and helps to put more fish in the boat.


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## Buckeye306

JIM
What speed do you fill is best for trolling spoons,I normally use the small scorpian stinger spoones ? Is there a better producing spoone that I might not know of ?
If you was fishing a 6 line presentation with 4 spoons off of boards and a couple weighted down crank baits,what speed do you fill would be the best trooling speed to make both of these presentations produce the most fish.



Buckeye


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## Jim Stedke

I've caught walleyes on spoons from 1.9 up to 3.2 mph depending on the season, and steelhead faster still, but right now speeds from 2.1 - 2.5 mph is were I'd be with a spoon / crank combo presentation. 

If you want to run harnesses with cranks, you need to slow down... like from 1.6 - 2.3 (especially if you like big blades).

Good luck.


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## Buckeye306

Thx Jim 
That is good info.


Buckeye


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## Turbo

Jim, glad to see you back on-line. Wanted to thank you for all the information. We did great - a little rough the first couple days. We fished from 4/25 - 4/28. Got a hot tip to troll 2oz bottom bouncers with 50 feet of line out using line counters and than hooking the spinners to planar boards. First time we fished suspended fish pulling bottom bouncers on planars - not used much in South Dakota but may give it a try! Majority of our fish came out of 32 foot of water West and North West of Kelly's. Amazing how big the fish were. By the end of trip we felt that spinners did out fish cranks on the suspended fish. Both methods yielded some big fish - several over 9 lbs.


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## Jim Stedke

Glad things went well. We've got a great lake to play in.


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## Buckeye306

Jim
I AM IN THE MARKET FOR A NEW RIDE ON THE WATER,WHICH MAKE OF BOAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST,I FISH LAKE ERIE ONLY.WHAT KIND OF BOAT DID YOU GET THIS YEAR?


Buckeye


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## Jim Stedke

I'm working with South Shore Marine, Huron, Ohio promoting Scout & Contender boats. My tournament boat for this year is a 221 Winyah Bay Scout powered by a 250 4 stroke Yamaha. 

Freebyrd (Steve Carlson) & I have been using his 25' Contender with Twins and that is a heck of a boat as well.

Boat buying is such a personal thing, with all the trade-offs and compromises involved, I'd have 50 questions for you before I'd feel comfotable recommending anything. 

I appreciate your asking, and hope you give South Shore a look. They are the most costomer oriented boat sales company I've seen.


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## Hatchetman

Jim....I fish out of Conneaut mostly. Usually for smallie or perch. I do however have six rods with line counters, 4 with lead core and two power pro braid. I don't have boards or downriggers. I fish out of a 17 ft Lund tiller. I do have 12 rod holders mounted for trolling. Any suggeations on how or what to rig with for eyes. Any help would be appreciated....Pete


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## Jim Stedke

With the depths that you be working Dipsys on 30# PowerPro would be my first thought, w/ harnesses. Look for hatstack type bait piles on the bottom (smelt) and run harnesses @ 1.7 - 2.3 mph at the 54 - 58' (thermocline) depth. Also leadcore 7 - 10 colors out with Rip Sticks, 15 Bombers, or shallow Renowskis, can be effective.

70' of water and deeper is where most of the action occurs. The walleyes over there grow big eating smelt. Do some searches on Renowski lures, and Dipsy Divers, you'll find lots of interesting stuff.
Good luck & good fishing.


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## ezbite

just read thru this thread again and its still as good as the first time i read it. thanks jim and all who replied. 

jim, whats your program for a sunny day and the water is stained (2 to 4 foot vis)  just looking for lure colors. ive read that on sunny days you should go with metalic colors and in stained water you should go with bright florescent colors. going on that it seems like anything will be the right color what do you go on when choosing your colors? by water clairity or sky conditions? im just trying to nail down a starting point, color wise. thanks.


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## K gonefishin

ezbite said:


> just read thru this thread again and its still as good as the first time i read it. thanks jim and all who replied.
> 
> jim, whats your program for a sunny day and the water is stained (2 to 4 foot vis)  just looking for lure colors. ive read that on sunny days you should go with metalic colors and in stained water you should go with bright florescent colors. going on that it seems like anything will be the right color what do you go on when choosing your colors? by water clairity or sky conditions? im just trying to nail down a starting point, color wise. thanks.


I see your doing your homework with the magical search button  
HAHA Looking for a secret bait for Hogfest Ezbite? :B


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## ezbite

K gonefishin said:


> I see your doing your homework with the magical search button
> HAHA Looking for a secret bait for Hogfest Ezbite? :B


 ive just been a bit confused about this color sky/water clairity thing for sometime now and yes, i have been doing some searching too. amazing how some people have changed over the years.


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## Bobinstow90

ezbite said:


> ive just been a bit confused.......


The lights have just gone on for EZ


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## Fishers of Men

Bobinstow90 said:


> The lights have just gone on for EZ


I don't believe Jim will be able to answer Toms question until after the fest!


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## ezbite

if nobody helps me, i wont know what color to paint my dipsys.


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## Fishers of Men

ezbite said:


> if nobody helps me, i wont know what color to paint my dipsys.


I was just jokin Tom, I think if you paint your dipseys to match the sunglasses you would have a winner. 

IMO
I always stick with the environment, like when its dark, I run purple/black for example, sunny, lighter things like watermellon, muddy...yellows.
Kevorkian until the sun gets up then a switch to say a monkey puke.

Seems the contrast from under water looking up against the sky is different than you may think. I picture looking up from a swimming pool at the sky what would stand out more say on a overcast nite. Purples and black against the lighter sky.


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## ezbite

ive been doing some reading from mags and on-line sites and they all seem to agree that in cloudy water or cloudy skys you should run fluorescent colors and sunny days or clear water, run metalic colors. this just doesnt match whats been working this year for me. im just trying to see what others think. who knows this one piece of the puzzle might just be the clue to put me higher than 67th place this year.

just did another search and found what i was looking for, now if i can just find a bare naked stinger


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## Jim Stedke

ezbite said:


> ive been doing some reading from mags and on-line sites and they all seem to agree that in cloudy water or cloudy skys you should run fluorescent colors and sunny days or clear water, run metalic colors. this just doesnt match whats been working this year for me. im just trying to see what others think. who knows this one piece of the puzzle might just be the clue to put me higher than 67th place this year.


Tom The "naked" family of colors has been doing well, and white based lures also. After the blow & rain from last weekend, I wouldn't be surprised, if the color preferrance changes, but that's were I expect to start. Then too fall is coming on and the eyes will be looking for perch (greens & oranges). 

Depth is much more important than color, as is speed, because it has such a direct bearing on depth.

Good luck to everyone in the hog-fest.

And man where did you dig up this thread???


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## ezbite

Jim Stedke said:


> And man where did you dig up this thread???


thanks jim, i dug it up because its taught me a lot and i needed some fresh reading. thanks. lets do it again this winter.lol.

good luck to all OGF'ers in the fest. lets keep the title in OHIO this year.


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## Overwatchmike

Thought I would go ahead and bring this thread back to answer a ton of questions I have seen guys asking on here. A lot has changed in 5 years but some things stay the same.

Great reading and a ton of knowledge!!! ENJOY!

Sent from my DROID4 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Jim Stedke

Wow!! A blast from the past.


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## KaGee

You may not be aware that there is a thread started by Jim every year in the winter months. You will find several in the "Discussions" forum. When the time is appropriate Jim will start a new thread and we will stick it to the top.

Meantime, I am closing this because it was started over 5 years ago.

Sent from my EVO 3D via Ohub Campfire


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