# first youth hunt



## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

this will be the first time i can take my grandkids out for thier first youth hunt.son is able to take leave time to come home at that time and stay through thanksgiving and the first day of gun season.

the only problem i have at this time is firearms.i have 2 differant .410s for them or 2 differant .50cal ml in-lines to use.would rather for them to use the ml's and down load them to around 75-80 gr with a 295gr powerbelt over the .410s.want to keep the shots at less then 50yds.granddaughter is 12 and is about 75-80lbs and grandson is 10 and is about 100lbs.do you guys think these mls will have to much of a recoil for them or should i use the 410s and try to keep the shots down to less then 40 yds?


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I think the muzzleloader idea is the perfect way to go. They don&#8217;t kick too bad at all, and they are FAR better suited for deer than a .410.


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## JCoeRBK (Dec 6, 2008)

M.Magis said:


> I think the muzzleloader idea is the perfect way to go. They dont kick too bad at all, and they are FAR better suited for deer than a .410.


Agreed.

You can make up for a little larger margin of error in shooting while not having to add a significant amount of recoil.

Sounds like they're in for a good time!


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## weasel (Mar 25, 2007)

a 410 kicks way less the a muzzle loader . if the kids can handle the kick it would be a better choice but a 410 will work to just have to keep the shots closer


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## CasualFisherman (May 21, 2004)

ML is by far the better choice. Less recoil and far better accuracy. I dabbled with the 410 at first and made a 410 slug gun. Best I could get with slugs out of this gun was 4"-6" groups at 50 yds. Definitely good enough to kill a deer but the recoil was much stiffer than the ML. I now have two youth sized MLs for my kids. I load one with 50 grs and the other with 60 grs of pyrodex and shoot 44Mag bullets (230grn HP) with a plastic sabot. There are many bullet choices that perform well at the lower velocities and the sabot will produce less recoil. My 10 yr old could shoot his 50 cal all day long without thinking about it. The recoil is negligible. We have now killed 3 deer between 20 and 60 yds and all were clean pass throughs. I would stay clear of the connicals and powerbelts for the sake of recoil and poorer performance at slower speeds. Both of my MLs shoot less than 1" groups at 50 yds with these loads.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

M.Magis said:


> I think the muzzleloader idea is the perfect way to go. They dont kick too bad at all, and they are FAR better suited for deer than a .410.


Agree with the above statement. Even .410s built for shooting slugs are marginal in power for hunting deer with most slugs built nowadays.

To expand on your post a bit. i have often wanted to have a rifled barrel .410 with a solid mounted barrel built for deer. i would handload 180 grain .40 cal hollowpoint bullets in sabots.


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

You are on the right track. Also, 410 slugs seem to me to be really loud. Maybe just my perception, I have not heard the two together. Muzzleloader recoil is more of a push than a kick.


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Huntinbull said:


> Agree with the above statement. Even .410s built for shooting slugs are marginal in power for hunting deer with most slugs built nowadays.
> 
> To expand on your post a bit. i have often wanted to have a rifled barrel .410 with a solid mounted barrel built for deer. i would handload 180 grain .40 cal hollowpoint bullets in sabots.


They make those. They are called rifles! Lol. I know what you are getting at though.

I wonder how many people slip a 45 cartridge into a 410 shotgun when they are hunting and no one is watching?


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

CasualFisherman said:


> I would stay clear of the connicals and powerbelts for the sake of recoil and poorer performance at slower speeds.


I agree

MZ provides you with a much more efficient gun and you can modify the loads to suit each child's recoil sensitivity. I would suggest you try Casual Fisherman's loads as a starting point. He has already been there done that.

Good luck to you and your grandkids. Glad your son will be able to make it home.


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## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

as soon as this fine weather breaks some,i'll be taking each mz out back and start trying the differant loads.will start at 60 gr and work up to no more than 75-80 gr.will try to have wife take a couple of shots at the upper grains so she can tell me if they may be to high for them.making a couple of shooting rails out of pvc so they can hold the guns steady.will be hunting out of ground blinds.


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## fireline (Jun 14, 2007)

My daughter used my T/C thunder hawk last year with 80 gr triple 7 and 240 gr Hornady XTP with very good results and minimal recoil.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

Any reason the kids can't try both and decide for themselves?


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## big red (Feb 4, 2010)

they won't be here till late Friday before season starts.my sons leave doesn't start till that day and the kids don't get out of school in time.son has been taking them to the base range and letting them shoot a scoped .22 to get used to looking through a scope and practice proper trigger control.he doesn't have a larger caliber gun for them to shoot.he and I will be sitting with them and attempting to coach them through the whole deal.i just don't want them to get a scope eye when they take the shot.the shoulder will handle the recoil.


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## put-put (Sep 3, 2004)

You may want to consider going ahead with 100 grains of powder. My buddies 10 year old daughter shot 80 grains and 250 grain hornady and she hit deer at 60 yards twice and didn't kill them. We had on video and they were good shot placements on both. We had very little blood and ended up pushing them over to another group and they shot/and harvested both. They let us look inside both deer and the bullets just didn't have much penetration We took her to the range loaded with 100 grain and she could not tell difference. He took her out and dropped one right in its tracks.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Something went wrong if an 80 grain charge didn't do the job. Either bullet "failure" or shot placement. 80 grains is more than enough at 60 yards.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

M.Magis said:


> Something went wrong if an 80 grain charge didn't do the job. Either bullet "failure" or shot placement. 80 grains is more than enough at 60 yards.


Agreed, 80 gr with a 250 gr bullet will put you somewhere between 1400 and 1500 FPS with over 1100 ft lbs at the muzzle. That will work on any deer anywhere anytime out to ranges being discussed.


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