# Spring steelhead



## jmotyka50

This will be the first year I will try spring fishing for steelhead. So I bought some in fall and wondering if after ice out if they start running upstream or if they hold off till the flow slows down some. I will probably wait till the river is not blown out and just wondering if I can start right where I left off or if I'm going to have to go hunting


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## KTkiff

Where did you leave off? The steelhead should be running very soon. As soon as the river blows and is fishable it will be loaded with fish.


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## W DeMarco

Same rivers, same holes, almost the same fish.


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## ldrjay

The rivers are already loaded........


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## ballast

Word that was my question too. Im sticking with search tactics. Catching um on bait was fun but i heard they move into shallows and u can see um.


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## mdogs444

If you can see them in the shallows, its typically because they are on the gravel beds trying to spawn. Its generally frowned upon to target those - its poor sport.


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## ballast

Ethical vs practical 
Even if i release them?


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## mdogs444

Its not illegal to fish for them on spawn beds, nor is it illegal to keep them from spawn beds.

It is however, frowned upon, from an ethical/moral standpoint to target fish on the redds. Chances are, even if you release them, you'll find that they have dispensed their eggs/sperm on the bank or while being held, therefore taking away their chance to spawn. Granted, not a large number are successful at naturally reproducing in our waters, but its always in good sport to leave them alone. You'll likely get a few dissatisfied looks or remarks if doing it. 

There are plenty of drop backs that are still aggressive post-spawn, and always new fish coming into the runs from the lake, so not much a reason to target spawning fish on the clear gravel. Last year, we were getting bright silvers still running into the lower Chagrin at the end of May when everyone else had packed up for the season.


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## fishinnick

Yeah, what mdogs444 said. 

I don't do it, but I personally don't get too worked up if people target the spawners here in Ohio. Sure, there's some reproduction.......more than most people think, but still probably not enough to make a contribution to the fishery. Cast to the spawning stockies all ya want........but what really gets my blood boiling is when I see or hear about people targeting spawning wild trout(in other states) on redds. I had a discussion not too long ago with a guy about a smallish stream I fish in PA. He kept saying how the fishing is great in the fall and all those big wild browns get into very shallow water and are easy to spot and catch. I was fuming

There's always plenty of fresh, pre-spawn, and post-spawn dropbacks willing to go around. Often times if you find a group of spawners.....fish the pools below them since there may be fish feeding on the eggs.


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## ldrjay

What irratates me is the snaggers or flossers depending on what you call it. Bah I guess its ok for trout but not any other game fish for some reason. Nothing I can do about it. Pot stirred. :thumbup:


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## mdogs444

ldrjay said:


> What irratates me is the snaggers or flossers depending on what you call it. Bah I guess its ok for trout but not any other game fish for some reason. Nothing I can do about it. Pot stirred. :thumbup:


Flossing/snagging is typical on the Salmon River (NY) during the chinook run in the fall. Some call it "chuck and duck", but nonetheless, its a method of bottom bouncing with a bare, or next to bare hook. Its not necessary when using on game fish like steelhead because they are actively feeding, whereas salmon are not. Its nothing more than a legal method of snagging to harvest meat. IMHO - anyone snagging steelhead by this method is a moron.


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## ballast

I figure me with a flyrod should even the score becouse ive never used one. I think its a fair fight. (in my case)


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## Angling

ballast said:


> I figure me with a flyrod should even the score becouse ive never used one. I think its a fair fight. (in my case)


Dont use a fly rod! Grab some snag hooks or a gig and fill the smoker!!


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## ldrjay

Angling said:


> Dont use a fly rod! Grab some snag hooks or a gig and fill the smoker!!


Haha how bout a cast net? Could be a two for one throw!


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## Angling

ldrjay said:


> Haha how bout a cast net? Could be a two for one throw!


lmao..... Now ur talkin&#128521;


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## rickerd

We go through this every year.
Some of you guys need to get your facts straight. Chuck and duck is not snagging, or flossing. Any method can snag a fish but when you say flossing what you are talking about is having your line run perpendicular to flow just off the bottom in order to fall into a fishes mouth like a clothesline would catch a person running. Then the person sets the hook to slide it to the mouth usually hooking it outside the mouth on the other side of the fish. Its legal in ohio but unethical to me. Snagging is using a weight below your hooks, and jerking your hooks through the water to hook the fish anywhere on the body, usually using a larger treble hook or 2.

Chuck and duck is a method used mostly in places where current is fast and you need a heavier banana weight above your hooks, to get your offering down to the fish. Its called chuck and duck because the extra weight forces a fishing person to duck otherwise a sharp pain to the rear of the head. Guys use this all over the country and it is fully ethical, although I hate to use that term because no authority really states what is ethical. Each person has their own choice within the laws of each state. I personally don't use bait, or treble hooks to catch a trout, but I won't prejudge someone who does. (well maybe if they deserve it I will)

Before you send a new person out to judge all the others fishing, or even before you go out to criticize others, you must realize there are many ways to catch these fish legally and enjoy the sport. If he wants to catch fish on a redd legally, I don't see any problem with it since here in Ohio the ODNR cannot verify success of spawning by steelhead more than 1.5%. This fishery is totally supported by stocks. Once people learn to catch them and realize the dropbacks actually are hungry and fight better, they move to catch them more. Every new person I take out, wants to catch fish and feel good so I take them to the redds. Once they want to catch bigger fish, I move them to the drop backs, but I see no reason to put someone down because they are fishing the redds in OHIO. I can get the males to chase my flies up to 5 feet away from their mate and that is a blast too. I don't lose any sleep over the males chasing and hammering my flies. Just have fun and give every else enough room to have fun.
Lets get out and trade some aggression for a tight line,

Rickerd


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## GasFish26

Nice explanation rick


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## ballast

i kinda want a female for the eggs.... Just one! One big one!


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## fishinnick

Well said rickerd


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## pafisher

I agree with you 100% Rickard.If there's action to be had with the big aggressive males on the redds I have no problem taking advantage.I release everything so that is no issue,and as you said there is virtually no natural reproduction even possible in the Ohio tribs.
It won't be long now and I can't wait!


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## rickerd

Sad thing about the flossing, I've seen pros do it and not give it a second thought. Sometimes it happens and you are not aware you are clotheslining fish. I saw Mr. Teeny do it on one of his old videos, also saw Jeremy Wade of River Monsters fame do it and demonstrate how up in Alaska. That was one of his earliest fly fishing attempts though and a bear got his fish. Basically, you know you flossed a fish when the hook point is outside the mouth pointing in. 

I let all mine go too so I try to fish a single fly and keep the fly below the leader to minimize the possibilities of a floss. Also using barbless hooks enables a quick long distance release most of the time if you do snag one. Just have fun with the fishing and try to make some new friends on the rivers.

Rickerd


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## ballast

So.... If im rockin a sink tip? What am i doing?


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## rickerd

You are fishing too just like everyone else. That's why I wanted to clarify this because too many people want to label it as snagging. heck in the NorthWest, all they do is use sink tips and they are not interested in snagging. I don't see more than one person a year trying to snag a fish on the Rocky. Now in PA, almost each time I go I can find someone. I wish people would take a few minutes to really observe someone if they think they are trying to snag fish. Most people have their heart in the right place, might not realize what they are doing, or just hooked up wrong by accident. No reason to persecute them. 

I fish a sink tip often too. All you have to do is when your fly lands, mend up to keep the line straight between fly and rod. minimize the belly in your line and sink tip and your chance of flossing is nil. If you are swinging and moving downstream a few steps, you will also minimize flossing since you are approaching the fish from above. 

I've seen guys with centerpins and baitcasters floss too. Anytime your line gets horizontal and perpendicular to flow near your hooks, you have a chance to floss a fish.

Rickerd


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## salmon king

Well put rickerd... also I have a question for the elitests on this site who always think they are the foremost authority on steelhead. ... do you fish the walleye run in the Maumee? Are they or are they not spawning ? .... seems as though many of the same people who put down fishing the redds for steelies do the same to the walleye. ... just saying ..


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## mdogs444

I don't fish for walleye but i'll take a stab at it. My guess would be because people target walleye for the meat and therefore do not care whether they are spawning or not. Steelhead are viewed as a protected, highly regulated species for non-midwest fisheries (ie Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, California) so many people carry over the same mindset here. In those areas, its very frowned upon to fish on the reds in order to protect the natives. You're not even allowed to remove a native steelhead from the water, even to remove a hook or take a picture (although most people still do for pictures). Most of the purists out that way dislike the hatchery programs and want people to remove as many hatchery (clipped fin) fish as possible from the waters - as they believe it waters down the native genetics by cross breeding. Whether that's fact or not is of much debate.

With that being said, if you are doing catch and release, it is a good idea to leave the ones on the redds alone if at all possible. Not just so they can (try to) spawn, but because they have exerted so much of their energy on migration and spawning, that fighting the fish to shore will often times end up with the fish dying several hours after being released. 

More important than fishing on the redds though, is using common sense. If you're doing catch and release then use a net or hand the tail in about 6" of water. Don't let the fish bang around on the rocks, don't keep it out of the water for any period of time other than a quick second or two for a picture. Here is a citation from a study done by Ferguson: 

_, &#8220;Physiological Effect of Brief Air Exposure in Exhaustively Exercised Rainbow Trout: Implications for &#8220;Catch and Release&#8221; Fisheries&#8221;, Tufts studied the effect of time out of water periods of zero, 30 and 60 seconds for rainbow trout after exhaustive exercise. In 57-degree water, after 12 hours of recovery time, the control group-- fish that were held in captivity but not exercised--experienced no mortality. The group not exposed to air immediately after exercise experienced 12% mortality.* The group exposed to air for 30 seconds after exercise experienced 38% mortality, and the group exposed to air for 60 seconds after exercise experience 72% mortality. 7 out of 10 trout died after 12 hours when exposed to air for 60 seconds.*_

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f92-129

In my opinion, fish how you want, but do it the right way. If you want to keep them, then do it. If you want to catch and release, then do it right with the proper gear. Else, you may as well just keep them because they'll die anyway.


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## salmon king

mdogs444 said:


> I don't fish for walleye but i'll take a stab at it. My guess would be because people target walleye for the meat and therefore do not care whether they are spawning or not. Steelhead are viewed as a protected, highly regulated species for non-midwest fisheries (ie Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, California) so many people carry over the same mindset here. In those areas, its very frowned upon to fish on the reds in order to protect the natives. You're not even allowed to remove a native steelhead from the water, even to remove a hook or take a picture (although most people still do for pictures). Most of the purists out that way dislike the hatchery programs and want people to remove as many hatchery (clipped fin) fish as possible from the waters - as they believe it waters down the native genetics by cross breeding. Whether that's fact or not is of much debate.
> 
> With that being said, if you are doing catch and release, it is a good idea to leave the ones on the redds alone if at all possible. Not just so they can (try to) spawn, but because they have exerted so much of their energy on migration and spawning, that fighting the fish to shore will often times end up with the fish dying several hours after being released.
> 
> More important than fishing on the redds though, is using common sense. If you're doing catch and release then use a net or hand the tail in about 6" of water. Don't let the fish bang around on the rocks, don't keep it out of the water for any period of time other than a quick second or two for a picture. Here is a citation from a study done by Ferguson:
> 
> _, Physiological Effect of Brief Air Exposure in Exhaustively Exercised Rainbow Trout: Implications for Catch and Release Fisheries, Tufts studied the effect of time out of water periods of zero, 30 and 60 seconds for rainbow trout after exhaustive exercise. In 57-degree water, after 12 hours of recovery time, the control group-- fish that were held in captivity but not exercised--experienced no mortality. The group not exposed to air immediately after exercise experienced 12% mortality.* The group exposed to air for 30 seconds after exercise experienced 38% mortality, and the group exposed to air for 60 seconds after exercise experience 72% mortality. 7 out of 10 trout died after 12 hours when exposed to air for 60 seconds.*_
> 
> http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f92-129
> 
> In my opinion, fish how you want, but do it the right way. If you want to keep them, then do it. If you want to catch and release, then do it right with the proper gear. Else, you may as well just keep them because they'll die anyway.


Well put mdogs.. I am not trying to say that sight fishing the redds is good or bad or whatever... I'm just saying people need to just chill out.. I don't condone snagging ... if I fish the redds I won't bring in a snagged
Fish if I see that it is... I will break off and retie. .. I am trying to get away from it anyways because I'd rather bobber fish than anything else... just getting sick of fly fishing that way.. but you won't see me smoking a cheap cigar next to my Toyota prius with a lab named scoot and a couple of my Facebook pals talking crap about redds fisherman... I'm too good for that rubish lmao!!!!


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## ldrjay

Ill say this. In my opinion and its my opinion, if its not hooked it the mouth its a snag. While flossing may be legal I dont like it. I will poke fun at guys that do it but cant really knock them for it. If the hook is outside pointed in that is. If its in the corner like a circle hook does pointed out I have no issue. Im not starting crap just poking fun at the fellers that cant catch them in the mouth. Mdogs thats a great point about the releasing part. Ill point that out in that class im doing sat. Something I didnt think about. Thanks.


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## mdogs444

Reminds me of when i was up at Salmon River last fall during the chinook run fishing for the trailing browns. It was comical hearing all the guys saying "oh my, did you see how high that king jumped? he totally attacked my lure!". Made me laugh - kings are bruisers who do not surface unless they are snagged somewhere other than the mouth. They think its a lamprey and jump out of the water to get it off. If hooked properly in the mouth, they stay down on the bottom.


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## lowhole4trowt

mdogs444 said:


> Reminds me of when i was up at Salmon River last fall during the chinook run fishing for the trailing browns. It was comical hearing all the guys saying "oh my, did you see how high that king jumped? he totally attacked my lure!". Made me laugh - kings are bruisers who do not surface unless they are snagged somewhere other than the mouth. They think its a lamprey and jump out of the water to get it off. If hooked properly in the mouth, they stay down on the bottom.


That's comical. They must've thought our skein hooks were very sharp lamps, or maybe we embedded them in the "jump!" Sweet spot in their mouths.


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## mdogs444

Hate to tell you this, but those fish were not feeding on your skein.

If you fish the DSR, any salmon that jumps out of the water, the wardens will immediately make you cut line. Its a snag, 100% of the time.


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## iggyfly

Good info mdoggs. 

Don't fish the redds... there are far hungrier fish nearby, where you likely cant see them....


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## lowhole4trowt

mdogs444 said:


> Hate to tell you this, but those fish were not feeding on your skein.
> 
> If you fish the DSR, any salmon that jumps out of the water, the wardens will immediately make you cut line. Its a snag, 100% of the time.


Roger that. Wasn't at SR. Thanks for the info. Chrome kings seemingly hours removed from the lake in holes 6-12 ft deep must've enjoyed toying with the skein and just happened to get the hook.


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## pafisher

mdogs444 said:


> Hate to tell you this, but those fish were not feeding on your skein.
> 
> If you fish the DSR, any salmon that jumps out of the water, the wardens will immediately make you cut line. Its a snag, 100% of the time.


Salmon will hit skein,plugs,flys,worms,or anything else that gets in their face.They do hit but are probably not feeding,the problem is a lot of people that fish for them really don't want to "fish" for them they just want to hook big numbers!


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## mdogs444

Some salmon will strike out of instinct at the beginning of migration, but not to feed. Before running into rivers, their stomachs have already started to decompose and disintegrate to make room for extra eggs to develop.


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## lowhole4trowt

Potato patato. Float chugging along with a bag of skein underneath, bob plunges, and a big king jumps several times shortly after hookset before digging to the wood. That's fact based on observation not a theory while fishing in a private run where wardens must babysit those in the water (tells ya something in and of itself).


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## smath

There's a youtube video (sorry no link) on a very crowded ny state river where a guy lands a steelhead and finds a bunch of hooks embedded in various parts of the fish's body from being repeatedly snagged.


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## Chef T

That's right Rickerd, every year we go through this over and over. Everyone hates or thinks they are right when it comes to the right/best way to fish for migratory salmoniods. Too many "experts" sometimes, lol. 
The only thing that matters is the experience. If we all fish how we want within the rules(law), respect the resource and each other, then the State will continue to stock more fish for us. We are all stewards and most important FISHERMAN. When we all remember that and don't tread on each other, we all win...


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## Switch

Chef T said:


> That's right Rickerd, every year we go through this over and over. Everyone hates or thinks they are right when it comes to the right/best way to fish for migratory salmoniods. Too many "experts" sometimes, lol.
> The only thing that matters is the experience. If we all fish how we want within the rules(law), respect the resource and each other, then the State will continue to stock more fish for us. We are all stewards and most important FISHERMAN. When we all remember that and don't tread on each other, we all win...


Can't agree more!


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## pafisher

mdogs444 said:


> Some salmon will strike out of instinct at the beginning of migration, but not to feed. Before running into rivers, their stomachs have already started to decompose and disintegrate to make room for extra eggs to develop.


mdoggs444,the Salmon will HIT until they die.I have success on the SR at the very top of their run.Color at times is very important as I will switch from one color to another until I find the color of the day.Then there are days they hit most anything properly presented and then there are days they don't want to hit anything that "I" am using...that's fishing.


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## mdogs444

Again, they will strike out of instinct or aggravation, but they are not actively feeding going up river. They could care less about what color or style your lure/fly is, as they are not looking for it to be a tasty treat. But feel free to disagree with the experts all you want, makes no difference to me.

&#8220;When they&#8217;re living in the ocean, salmon eat and store up fat for their return to their spawning grounds. Once salmon enter freshwater they no longer feed.&#8221;
&#8212; U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Pacific Southwest Region

&#8220;Salmon do not usually feed after entering freshwater and severe atrophy of the digestive system sets in before spawning begins.&#8221;
&#8212; U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

&#8220;Upon entering freshwater, the salmon stop eating altogether and will only strike at other fish or a fisherman&#8217;s tackle in aggravation.&#8221;
&#8212; Fish Alaska Magazine

&#8220;When the salmon begin their upriver spawning migration, they stop eating.&#8221;
&#8212; Pacific Northwest National Laboratory


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## pafisher

I have been fishing the SR for 35 years and I know there are days that you will have action on the "right" color but very liitle on other colors.As far as the experts opinion on feeding I have seen Salmon take skein/egg sacks/and worms down to their gullet.I have also had Salmon move to grab streamers and other fly patterns.
Believe what you want to but that's my take on it.


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## steelie4u

mdogs444 said:


> Again, they will strike out of instinct or aggravation, but they are not actively feeding going up river. They could care less about what color or style your lure/fly is, as they are not looking for it to be a tasty treat. But feel free to disagree with the experts all you want, makes no difference to me.
> 
> When theyre living in the ocean, salmon eat and store up fat for their return to their spawning grounds. Once salmon enter freshwater they no longer feed.
>  U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Pacific Southwest Region
> 
> Salmon do not usually feed after entering freshwater and severe atrophy of the digestive system sets in before spawning begins.
>  U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
> 
> Upon entering freshwater, the salmon stop eating altogether and will only strike at other fish or a fishermans tackle in aggravation.
>  Fish Alaska Magazine
> 
> When the salmon begin their upriver spawning migration, they stop eating.
>  Pacific Northwest National Laboratory


 I have fished NY for salmon and trout for 20 years and still catch salmon mid river with eggs under a float all day long so they do hit when in the river don't believe it go try it u will be amazed most inhale the eggs !!!!!!!!!!!


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## EyeCatchEm

steelie4u said:


> I have fished NY for salmon and trout for 20 years and still catch salmon mid river with eggs under a float all day long so they do hit when in the river don't believe it go try it u will be amazed most inhale the eggs !!!!!!!!!!!



That's instinct. They are eating to destroy the eggs from other fish, not because they're hungry 


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


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## pafisher

Since we can't ask the Salmon why they're inhaling the eggs we'll never know for sure,but for whatever reason they hit until they die.


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## atrenz

pafisher said:


> Since we can't ask the Salmon why they're inhaling the eggs we'll never know for sure,but for whatever reason they hit until they die.


That sums it up.


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## lowhole4trowt

mdogs444 said:


> Again, they will strike out of instinct or aggravation, but they are not actively feeding going up river. They could care less about what color or style your lure/fly is, as they are not looking for it to be a tasty treat. But feel free to disagree with the experts all you want, makes no difference to me.
> 
> When theyre living in the ocean, salmon eat and store up fat for their return to their spawning grounds. Once salmon enter freshwater they no longer feed.
>  U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Pacific Southwest Region
> 
> Salmon do not usually feed after entering freshwater and severe atrophy of the digestive system sets in before spawning begins.
>  U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
> 
> Upon entering freshwater, the salmon stop eating altogether and will only strike at other fish or a fishermans tackle in aggravation.
>  Fish Alaska Magazine
> 
> When the salmon begin their upriver spawning migration, they stop eating.
>  Pacific Northwest National Laboratory


What do the experts say about those rogue jumping salmon? Must be a mutation.


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## Eyeripper69

Mdoggs,
I have caught plenty of salmon in my somewhat short life span.. I am here to tell you that salmon will and do break the surface of the water.. The 100% ratio that you have stated is FALSE.. + if any DNR have told you that 100% of salmon that breaks the surface of the water is 100% snagged he should be fired.. reason being, if I caught a legal salmon and put that on my stringer and he came up to me say 10 min later and implied that I just possessed a illegal fish just because he seen it break the surface,, and proceeded to write me a ticket,, I think the fine for snagging would be the least of my worries... Absolutely not a true fact, this is coming from a guy that has fished these bad boys for many years.. They may not break the surface like a silver, but they do break it..


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## KTkiff

I am no expert but caught 2 in Oregon hooked in the mouth on spoons and both broke water like steel.


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## lowhole4trowt

KTkiff said:


> I am no expert but caught 2 in Oregon hooked in the mouth on spoons and both broke water like steel.


Good thing the wardens weren't around you would've been put in timeout!


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## Erieangler51

I lived in Wisconsin for 4 years and fished the harbors for salmon that were running on Lake Michigan. I caught many salmon on tube jigs, cranks, spoons, skein and spawn sacs under a float. To say salmon don't jump when legally hooked only when snagged is a load of crap. I've seen salmon go 5-6 ft out of the water multiple times in a fight. Game warden never came up to me and told me to cut my line just watched from a distance as I lifted fish up to make it visible to him it was mouth hooked. I've even caught walleyes in 2-3 fow that came out of the water like a smallie. Any fish will jump if it wants to


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## mdogs444

I am not referring to the entirety of the fight. However, if a Chinook breaks surface and jumps immediately after hooking, it is foul hooked 100% of the time. No ifs, ands, or buts. Anyone who says differently just doesn't want to admit that they foul hooked the fish.

Cohos will do acrobatic jumps, pinks just stay down like a dozer.


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## Eyeripper69

I have never been one to rely on study after study after study...

I have always been one to believe what my own experience's have taught me, with the help of many mentors ( Like Irdjay) People tend to take study's and interpret them into fact's.. There is always a study that contradicts a study and so on..So where do you start??? 
I say get out, Do your own homework with friends and family and you will not have to Quote what others put out there to make a case,, you will have experienced yourself and no one can ever take that away.. IMOP....


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## Erieangler51

Exactly eyeripper69.. 

Mdoggs

I'm no fish biologist but I can tell you for a fact I have casted a crocidile spoon and as soon as it hit the water got crushed by a 20 lb king that went airborne. Which in your case proves 2 things u said to be either not true or its 50/50. Salmon don't jump and they stay near bottom. It jumped and was damn near on the surface in probably 25 fow... Everyone can have their own opinion and mines different than yours as I have first handily witnessed the complete opposite of what you've said


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## Eyeripper69

That makes a little more sense mdoggs but I think some of the blow back is from the 100% Theory you keep referring too.. I think you make many valid points on this and is what the site is for( I love this site) BUT,, for new guy's getting into this might be a little reluctant to keep there prize if the beast starts to break water and he thinks he has just foul hooked a fish and cuts his line before even landing it, in fear the DNR is looking over his shoulder just waiting to pounce..


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## mdogs444

Yep eyeripper, i concur - im just going by my personal experience on the SR, conversations with the wardens in NY as well as good friends of mine who guide in BC and Alaska, and what is stated in documentation on Fish and Wildlife Service. I don't fish for Chinook, so I have no skin in the game, per say. I don't intend to change anyone elses minds or beliefs.

When I was swinging the DSR on the SR two falls ago for early season steelhead, three times I was instructed by the wardens to cut my line because a King jumped out of the water as soon as the hook was set. They were adamant that its a foul hook every time. I assume they have much more knowledge in that aspect than I do, considering they are the ones responsible for enforcing the rules of the fishery


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## lowhole4trowt

Hey, thanks for the great info...I, like some of the other reasonable posters above will not choose to drink the "expert" koolaid but rather prefer to rely on first hand experience of these fish jumping out of the water soon after hookset (with a firm hookset in the mouth).


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## Angling

mdogs444 said:


> Yep eyeripper, i concur - im just going by my personal experience on the SR, conversations with the wardens in NY as well as good friends of mine who guide in BC and Alaska, and what is stated in documentation on Fish and Wildlife Service. I don't fish for Chinook, so I have no skin in the game, per say. I don't intend to change anyone elses minds or beliefs.
> 
> When I was swinging the DSR on the SR two falls ago for early season steelhead, three times I was instructed by the wardens to cut my line because a King jumped out of the water as soon as the hook was set. They were adamant that its a foul hook every time. I assume they have much more knowledge in that aspect than I do, considering they are the ones responsible for enforcing the rules of the fishery


Y not land the fish & release it......


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## mdogs444

Angling said:


> Y not land the fish & release it......


Under NY law, all foul hooked salmon (chinook, coho, etc) must be cut off line as soon as its realized they are foul hooked. Its illegal to cause unnecessary harm or stress to a fish when its foul hooked.

In fact, if you are caught even touching a foul hooked fish that you knew was foul hooked, you can be charged and fined with possession.

http://articles.mcall.com/1993-09-30/sports/2925668_1_lake-ontario-anglers-flyfishing-show-conclave

"All foul-hooked fish must be immediately released without unnecessary injury."

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/1315srregsum.pdf


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## Angling

mdogs444 said:


> Under NY law, all foul hooked salmon (chinook, coho, etc) must be cut off line as soon as its realized they are foul hooked. Its illegal to cause unnecessary harm or stress to a fish when its foul hooked.
> 
> In fact, if you are caught even touching a foul hooked fish that you knew was foul hooked, you can be charged and fined with possession.
> 
> http://articles.mcall.com/1993-09-30/sports/2925668_1_lake-ontario-anglers-flyfishing-show-conclave
> 
> "All foul-hooked fish must be immediately released without unnecessary injury."
> 
> http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/1315srregsum.pdf


So all salmon that jump in ny r foul hooked 100% of the time....


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## mdogs444

Obviously thats open to personal interpretation, as those above have their own opinions and experiences. All I can tell you is that those who are in charge of regulating the SR fishery and giving out citations, will give you one...if they see you not cutting line as if they see it as foul hooked. Do as you wish.


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## Angling

mdogs444 said:


> Obviously thats open to personal interpretation, as those above have their own opinions and experiences. All I can tell you is that those who are in charge of regulating the SR fishery and giving out citations, will give you one...if they see you not cutting line as if they see it as foul hooked. Do as you wish.


I would want to take a peek at just where that hook is, but thats just me.


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## pafisher

mdogs444 said:


> Under NY law, all foul hooked salmon (chinook, coho, etc) must be cut off line as soon as its realized they are foul hooked. Its illegal to cause unnecessary harm or stress to a fish when its foul hooked.
> 
> In fact, if you are caught even touching a foul hooked fish that you knew was foul hooked, you can be charged and fined with possession.
> 
> http://articles.mcall.com/1993-09-30/sports/2925668_1_lake-ontario-anglers-flyfishing-show-conclave
> 
> "All foul-hooked fish must be immediately released without unnecessary injury."
> 
> http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/1315srregsum.pdf



Must be immediately released....does not say you must immediately cut your line.....really means you must remove your hook and get it on it's way ASAP.Never in my 35 yrs on that river have I seen the DEC ticket anyone for a foul hooked fish if they release it ASAP.


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## mdogs444

Its very easy to tell a foul hooked fish in the back or tail. Reeling them in instead of cutting them loose is causing unnecessary injury.


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## Angling

mdogs444 said:


> Its very easy to tell a foul hooked fish in the back or tail.
> 
> Apparently we disagree on this point.....


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## mountainbikingrn

The argumentative side of some of these threads are ridiculous. Good threads become soap boxes for each side to stand on. I think a new forum should be created for the lone purpose of arguing!


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## GasFish26

I don't agree with you mountainbiki...lol


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## pafisher

mdogs444 said:


> Its very easy to tell a foul hooked fish in the back or tail. Reeling them in instead of cutting them loose is causing unnecessary injury.



So are you saying as soon as you realize you foul hooked the fish you should cut your line ......where?....at the reel or at the tip leaving yards and yards of line trailing behind the fish. Not only that it can get very expensive replacing a fly line after every foul hooked fish.


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## ballast

Ppl put the stocked trout on a pedestal. I just dont get it?


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## atrenz

ballast said:


> Ppl put the stocked trout on a pedestal. I just dont get it?


I have to take a step back, and say, guys, there is some validity to this statement. 

Like it or not. Granted, there is SOME wild steel, for the most part, it's put and take. Closest we get in the region to a wild respectable fishery is the pere marquette....

Controversial? Yes. Accurate? Unfortunately, yes. And with that, let the ranting begin. Bound to happen, followed by a lock on the thread.

All I can say is catch them and eat them if that is your thing. Handle and release them with respect if that is your thing. Whatever your thing is.... wasn't there a mountain dew commercial for a while "dew your thing"? Don't worry about the next guy, you will enjoy your time on the water much more. Over and out.


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## mountainbikingrn

Atrenz, couldn't agree more! Never saw one of these argument threads ending with someone saying "you know what you are right, and I have been wrong all along."


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## ballast

Angling said:


> mdogs444 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its very easy to tell a foul hooked fish in the back or tail.
> 
> Apparently we disagree on this point.....
> 
> 
> 
> Im 50/50 on this one. I sure know when i have a REALLY foul hooked eye at the run. But im not gona cut rig? Crazy....
Click to expand...


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## Angling

mountainbikingrn said:


> Atrenz, couldn't agree more! Never saw one of these argument threads ending with someone saying "you know what you are right, and I have been wrong all along."


Thats right, youre wrong, im right, start your own agreeable thread.... Any idiot nos when theyve hooked a fish in the back or tail. I agree to disagree.... Hows that....


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## mdogs444

Cutting line doesn't mean you take out a pair of nippers and cut your line in half. All you do is lower your rod tip, tighten the drag,remove all slack,and pull. It will break the knot off at the lure/fly


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## pafisher

mdogs444 said:


> Cutting line doesn't mean you take out a pair of nippers and cut your line in half. All you do is lower your rod tip, tighten the drag,remove all slack,and pull. It will break the knot off at the lure/fly


Okay,I agree with that!


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## Eyeripper69

Mdogs, 
I was gonna throw that out there but didn't want to speak for you..
Glad you cleared that up..


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## creekcrawler

> I think a new forum should be created for the lone purpose of arguing!


We already have that! It's called "the steelhead forum", LOL!!


And, please don't argue with Mdog. He's been steelheading all his life and he is 100% right, 100% of the time.


OK, back to my popcorn. . . . .


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## Eyeripper69

I hope that is sarcasm Creekcrawler!!!!!!!!


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## mdogs444

Nope, not 100% of the time. But when there is verifiable documentation, as opposed to a "this one time, at band camp"....then I'll take the words of those who specialize.


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## creekcrawler

> I hope that is sarcasm


Just having fun, no problems here.


Y'know what would make this thread more fun? Cheap whiskey!


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## tehsavage

Pages 4-8 exactly why I open this app once a month. 90% piss ing contest 10% actual info. Sorry to the OP who just wanted to go catch a feesh.


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## creekcrawler

> Sorry to the OP who just wanted to go catch a feesh.



^^^^^^^^ Yup.


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## Popspastime

So have we all come to the conclusion that if you FOUL hook a fish (Trout) you may bring it to your person, hug it, caress it, and unhook it to promptly release it to the river. Now... If you decide to take POSESSION of that fish and slip it on your stringer you have then crossed the legal line if seen and will be sighted. If anyone here wants to test my theory just try it and let me know how it works out. The Law is very clear on this. 
Class Dismissed!


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## Socom

I like the challenge of landing a fowl hooked fish. Especially on light tackle. Way more of a fight! And you don't have to worry about them swallowing the hook


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## Angling

Popspastime said:


> So have we all come to the conclusion that if you FOUL hook a fish (Trout) you may bring it to your person, hug it, caress it, and unhook it to promptly release it to the river. Now... If you decide to take POSESSION of that fish and slip it on your stringer you have then crossed the legal line if seen and will be sighted. If anyone here wants to test my theory just try it and let me know how it works out. The Law is very clear on this.
> Class Dismissed!


Thanks Prof.....lmfao.


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## smath

Socom said:


> I like the challenge of landing a fowl hooked fish. Especially on light tackle. Way more of a fight! And you don't have to worry about them swallowing the hook


Hardest fighting fish I ever caught was a 36" striped bass I foul-hooked in the tail in the surf at Montauk.


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## Eyeripper69

pops, I would have to think that what you just stated was my father telling me about 40 years ago, if you decide to break the law, your on your own,and do not call me cuz i' m gonna bust your ass when you get you home... Anyone who decides to put a foul hooked fish on his/her stringer is, I'm not sure but, BIG,BIG trouble.... I've done this fishing for many years and have seen my share of drama on the river... 
I love this site for the simple fact that I was blinded from the success of the fishery you all have in OHIO.. 
I have always fished the western shore of lake Michigan and never gave a thought to what you guy's had to offer.. 
This thread has gone on and on, Which I like, BUT I check this site multiple times a day just hoping there is a new thread about success,presentation, and peoples thoughts and experience's on how to fish this fishery... 
Don't want to offend anyone but, does anyone ever fish out of a river boat??? or any kinda boat that you can back down in a hole and walk some bags down in or drop some whobble plugs off the side.... Basically dropping 2/4 plugs off the corners and walking 2/4 bags off the back.. 
Don't chop my head off for asking, just never read any post for that style of presentation.. 
Grew up having to fish the banks(and still do every now and then) but I have maximized my success fishing out of a boat getting to holes that are not accessible from land.. meaning private property..


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## ironfish

tehsavage said:


> Pages 4-8 exactly why I open this app once a month. 90% piss ing contest 10% actual info. Sorry to the OP who just wanted to go catch a feesh.


 10% is pushing it .


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## Fishermon

Socom said:


> I like the challenge of landing a fowl hooked fish. Especially on light tackle. Way more of a fight! And you don't have to worry about them swallowing the hook



A great way to kill a fish


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## creekcrawler

Eyeripper - Not many float boats here, rivers are mostly too shallow for that except the Cuyahoga. You'd end up dragging it alot on most of these rivers.


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## creekcrawler

Smack, smack, smack.

Keep hitting it and this thread won't die!!

Someone needs to kill it, smack it with a rock in the head, like a steelie


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## ballast

I think we've heard all the facts and debatable points to this topic. Unless you want to dive into ppl using barbless hooks in ohio. 

The only time id ever even think of going barbless. Is on my kids rod that way i can remove the hook from my back.....


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## Socom

Fishermon said:


> A great way to kill a fish


Kill a fish? No, just trying to kill a thread


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## creekcrawler




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## Angling

Lmfao!! Hey msdoggy, is there a law or ethical violation involved here? Wheres that cheap whiskey.....


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## mdogs444

Nope. You're just a douche.


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## fishinnick

mdogs444 said:


> I don't fish for walleye but i'll take a stab at it. My guess would be because people target walleye for the meat and therefore do not care whether they are spawning or not. Steelhead are viewed as a protected, highly regulated species for non-midwest fisheries (ie Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, California) so many people carry over the same mindset here. In those areas, its very frowned upon to fish on the reds in order to protect the natives. You're not even allowed to remove a native steelhead from the water, even to remove a hook or take a picture (although most people still do for pictures).


Honestly, in my opinion, fishing for a spawning walleye, or a bass on a bed, or whatever is no different than fishing for a spawning steelhead. So if they're targeting them for the meat......that makes it ok to fish during the spawn? So would the same apply to steelhead? What about native bass? 

As we all know, people fishing the walleye spawn isn't hurting the population. There are still gazillions every year. How are the steelhead affected......idk, but they get stocked every year. So it's all good. How are bass affected, since they guard their nests?? Idk either, but I'm sure there's a few studies out there. Would be some interesting reading

Regarding steelhead being viewed as a protected species and bringing that mindset to the midwest(specifically Ohio) I think is wrong. If I saw people fishing the redds out west......yeah I'd be angry, but here in Ohio or PA.....no. First and foremost they're not even a native species.....and as mentioned many times our fishery is dependent on hatcheries. I view a 12 inch pellet head fresh-out-of-the-truck rainbow the same as I do a 25 inch steelhead as far as "protecting the species" goes. Of course I have different feelings towards native steelhead out west...........but we're not out west, and these fish aren't native, and 99.9% aren't even wild. 

As I said in one of my earlier posts I get really fired up when I see or hear about people targeting spawning wild trout in PA. But this is a different situation, and I don't get worked up over people casting to spawning steelies. I don't do it, but I don't loose sleep if others do it. 




mdogs444 said:


> More important than fishing on the redds though, is using common sense. If you're doing catch and release then use a net or hand the tail in about 6" of water. Don't let the fish bang around on the rocks, don't keep it out of the water for any period of time other than a quick second or two for a picture.


^ +1


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## Eyeripper69

WOW!!!! Love thy neighbor....


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## creekcrawler

mdogs444 said:


> Nope. You're just a douche.


Not very nice, young man.


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## mdogs444

creekcrawler said:


> Not very nice, young man.


 I call them as I see them.


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## creekcrawler

> I call them as I see them.


I will not post what I was going to....


Get some manners, be a gentleman and don't get so serious.
It's just a fishun website.


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## mdogs444

creekcrawler said:


> I will not post what I was going to....
> 
> 
> Get some manners, be a gentleman and don't get so serious.
> It's just a fishun website.


That's rich. Don't fan flames and then play victim. Leave that for the CBC.

I don't call people out individually, unless purposely trolling (Angling). I state my opinion/fact, often times with something to support my view if I have time to include it. No one is required to agree. But when people are trolling on purpose in order to get a rise, or bragging about poor sporting, then I will call out, especially when attempting to include my name in their nonsense.

Glass ceilings my friend, glass ceilings.


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## creekcrawler

I'm not fanning any flames my friend, just having fun.

If your going to post in such an arrogant, all knowing manner, I guess people might tend poke a little fun at you. No big deal.


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## jignmaggot

Mdogs444 with all the time you spend on the inter web how have you become such a all knowing being on fly fishing and trout? maybe less talk more action. Food for thought.


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## ballast

I rather enjoyed the d_bag comment.


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## mdogs444

jignmaggot said:


> Mdogs444 with all the time you spend on the inter web how have you become such a all knowing being on fly fishing and trout? maybe less talk more action. Food for thought.


 There's this amazing new invention called a smart phone that allows you to access the inter webs from anywhere. Quite remarkable.


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## Angling

mdogs444 said:


> There's this amazing new invention called a smart phone that allows you to access the inter webs from anywhere. Quite remarkable.


Eactly what I was thinking when I read that post! Mine allows me to troll for all the fish I want while my line is wet. Occasionally Ill hook a pretentious ass! Fish on....:T


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## Erieangler51

Lock it up!!!!


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## fishinnick

First person to post a video on here of them catching a stocked metalhead off a redd gets a medal. 

Or a native walleye.....whatever you prefer, but we'll probably need more popcorn for the steelhead vid though


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## W DeMarco

as far as River dynamics go; where are redds typically found? 

Or is this a question of sight fishing? Ex: I have identified a redd/nest and will pass it up.


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## fishinnick

W DeMarco said:


> as far as River dynamics go; where are redds typically found?


Shallow gravel areas with ample current(eggs gotta be oxygenated). Typically spawning fish are located at the tailouts of pools, but I've seen them at the heads of runs as well.

Also, sometimes you'll see actively spawning fish and there won't be any obvious redds made in the gravel. Google "trout redds"



W DeMarco said:


> Or is this a question of sight fishing? Ex: I have identified a redd/nest and will pass it up.


I've sight fished for steelhead many times......especially on smaller water, or bigger water when it's really low and clear and the fish are schooled up. 

If I see spawners I pass them up. But just because the fish are visible doesn't mean they're spawning.


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## Lundy

It is always so disappointing every spring when the steelhead enter the rivers and everyone starts fighting all over again.

Go fishing!!!

CLOSED!


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