# Proposed Commercial Netter Buy Out



## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Ezmarc, Hetfieldinn and I attended the State Senate Hearing yesterdayfor those in favor of the buy-out. Very interesting indeed when you hear all the facts. I will write a report later today and put it on the Lake Erie and Lounge forum's as I feel this should get as much exposure to the membership as possible.
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Supporters of S.B. 351, the Bill to create the Commercial Fishing Buy  Out Program were heard yesterday by Senators, Carey, Mumper, Grendell, Spada , Hotinger Niehaus, Hagan and Miller. Officers from the ODNR as well as other responsible organizations were heard and their comments reviewed and questioned by the Senators. 

There are Commercial Fisherman that have, through the years, continually and knowingly violated the law regarding catch quantity, size and the associated reporting in various ways,,,, and then there are the Commercial Fisherman do their best to abide by the law but may be guilty of very few or no minor violations. It is the continual violators which must be dealt with and removed from the Commercial Fishing Industry.

ODNR reported that the violators took a conservative estimate of FORTY TONS (and probably more) unreported illegal Yellow Perch during a two year investigation! This deliberate catch violation as well as other unreported over limits undermines the efforts of our State Officials to establish a sound catch limit for both the Commercial Fishing Industry as well as YOU AND ME!!!!

Though convictions have been obtained by the ODNR, the fines and punishment levied have not been sufficient enough to outweigh the profit from the illegal catch. This has continued through the years as there are no required mandatory fines and judgments which in turn allow the violator to continue the illegal activity as the practice is profitable and as they see it, Business As Usual.

There will be another Senate Hearing sometime next week when those that oppose the proposed Buy-Out will present their reasons for being against it in spite of the obvious, continuous and blatant violations.

Should the proposed Buy-Out pass and all commercial fishing be eliminated, it would directly affect between 65 to 75 persons, many of which have been and continue to be violators of the laws set to protect our valued fisheries.

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO E-MAIL AND/OR CALL YOUR SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES AND VOICE YOUR SUPPORT OF S.B. 351


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

Shortdrift can fill in more details of yesterday's senate hearing but I'll paste my take on the situation that I put on our Denied Report website today for any interested people. 

__________________________________________________________________
Copied from the WBSA Denied reports page. http://westernbasinsportfishingassociation.com/denied/report.html

Below is a plea for action from me (Marc). Due to Travis' occupation he can't delve into the political side of fishing very far. I however have no such restrictions and will present my take on it below. If your not interested you can move to another page now. It's long!



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The Senate and House bills to purchase licenses of the Ohio Lake Erie commercial netters have been in the news much lately. The battle between proponents and opponents is reaching a critical stage right now. For a bill to be passed during this legislative session, it will have to be passed by the Senate and then relooked at by the House before the session ends sometime next week.





It appears that there is a majority of legislators that are willing to pass this bill (SB351) (in the senate) either as is or with a compromise that would save the licenses of those that have played by the rules and not been habitual offenders. I think most sportsmen could live with that compromise, I know I could. 





The problem as I see it is that the house bill (HB609), will not be forwarded for a vote and that the Chair of the committee holding sessions on it will let it die unless their is action from a substantial number of sportsmen or other legislators.





There are rumblings about the perch stock in the Lorain to Michigan Basin, being at a critical point this year. Figures quoted yesterday in the Senate hearing were only 29 and 30 percent of the quota for Ohio TAC was met by commercial and sport fishermen this year and that DOW has no good answer why except for possibly bad figues caused by inaccurate reporting by the commercial netters during the last few years. They won't come out and point fingers but their biggest concern is that without correct figures on harvest that they can't predict what the real populations are and then set TAC's that would allow for a sustainable harvest





The only option for those of us that would like to see action on these bills, is to mail or email the House and Senate leaders with our concerns and to do it soon before the current session expires. 





I am no politician and have never before called for action at any level of government but if any of you are concerned about what is going on with the scofflaw attitude by a good portion of the Commercial industry and about the possible collapse of a perch fishery that just recently became healthy then you owe it to yourselves and to all your fishing buddies to take a few minutes and contact at least the 2 house and Senate leaders and anybody on the committees hearing the bills.





Link to the bills

SB351

HB 609





The Speaker of the House is:





Jon Husted (R)
District 37
Speaker of the House





Address:
[email protected]

77 S. High St

14th Floor
Columbus, OH 43215-6111
Telephone: (614) 644-6008
Fax : (614) 719-3591
Email Address: 






Committee members:

Rep. Jim Aslanides Chair Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Jim McGregor Vice Chair Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Clyde Evans Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Tony Core Email Address: [email protected]

Rep Matthew Dolan Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Bob Gibbs Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Steve Reinhard Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. John Schlichter Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Arlene Setzer Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Jeff Wagner Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Chris Widener Email Address: [email protected]

Rep John Domenick Vice chair Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Timothy Cassell Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. L George Distel Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Jennifer Garrison Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Mike Mitchell Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Allen Sayre Email Address: [email protected]

Rep. Tyrone Yates Email Address: [email protected]













The President of the Senate is:





Senator Bill Harris (R)




Address:
Statehouse
Room #201, Second Floor
Columbus, Ohio 43215
Telephone: 614/466-8086
Email: [email protected]









Senate committee members are:

Senator Tim Niehaus- Chair Email: [email protected]

Senator Jay Hottinger Vice Chair Email [email protected]

Senator John Carey Email: [email protected]

Senator Timothy Grendell Email: [email protected]

Senator Larry Mumper Email: [email protected] 

Senator Robert Spada Email: [email protected]

If you made it this far, Thank you for at least caring enough to read it and if you somewhat agree or even disagree now would be a good time to send out some emails to those that can actually do something to help stop this poaching activity. Time is very short!


Marc


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

The links for the Bills did not paste through. Here they are

HB 609 http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_HB_609
SB351 http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_SB_351


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for the information.

I have called previously in support of this bill and will let my opinion be heard again by all contacts listed.

Thanks


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

I usually just glance over the 'Stickys" at the top of the page, and never really bother to read them.

But if you'll notice, there is a sticky at the top of the page in regards to the commercial fishing nets buyout.

EZMarc, Shortdrift and I attended the senate meeting Wednesday night to hear the opponent's facts, figures, and opinions on the matter.

Although the meeting was extremely hard on the back and butt (we waited sat in wooden chairs for the meeting that was slated to start at 2:30, but didn't get under way until a few minutes past 6 o'clock).

I was pleasantly surprised to see that the Senators actually appeared to be quite interested in this matter, and that they asked many questions of the opponents to further their knowledge in the facts of the bill in question.

EZMarc has gone out of his way to post the email addresses of the Senators that are reviewing/hearing this case. I noticed in a past thread about this bill that there were three pages of comments about this topic, 99% of those comments were in favor of the buyout. I would like to ask that everyone that supports the buyout to please take a minute or two and send an email to the Seanators to voice your concern (Senator Niehaus, who also acts as the chairperson, seemed very interested in this matter, as did Senators Spada and Grendell).


Thank you.


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## Dixie Chicken (Nov 12, 2004)

Thanks to all the folks that were able to go to Col. for those of us who couldn't. 
That was also a great post with alot of info. It makes it pretty easy for the rest of us.
I sent six e-mails in support of the buy out.
Thanks again
DC


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## Fish-Crazy (Dec 1, 2006)

Thank you Dixie Chicken, Ezmarc, Shortdrift, and every one else providing us with these informations. Democracy is something that you have to fight for, get involved in, and participate if you're gonna have it. If you don't, rest asure that it will be taken away from you and yours. From personal experience I can tell you that it's alot easier to keep it then fight to get it. 

So don't just read this, now you have all the tools you need to put you 2 cents in, and it does matter. It doesn't matter which way you believe this shoud go, as long as you make your voice heard. After reading this posts, you have no excuse. 

My take on this is this: I strongly beleive in free enerprize, it's part of what we stand for. Banning netting, or buy-outs is not what I would opt for. Yet following the regulations, and the rules, should be applied. The fines have to be made severe enough, and strictly enforced, so it would deter anyone from breaking the rules. Us, sport fishermen get approximatly $ 80.00 per fish average fine, for over limit, under size, prohibited fish, or no licence. Multiply $ 80.00 per fish by a few tons and that should be the fine, pay it or fold it. How many of these netting companies would break the rules if they would be face with these kind of penalties? I'm always skeptical about our politicians spending our money, no matter how good it looks, most times it turns out to be srewed up in the end. Apply the rules, apply the fines, then in the end it will weed out what's unfavorable.

Our Judicial system is a major part of alot of what is going wrong, and not just in the fishing industry. I will not get into this because of its complexity, but I will ask you a question, to put it in pespective: How many of us sport fishermen would get away with just a $ 30.00 fine for fishing without a licence? I read in the PD of a Judge giving a $ 30.00 fine to one of this companies for fishing without a permit or something similar to a fishing licence for us. I'm sure that Judge had many other options to apply. Lets face it, if our fine would only be $ 1.00 per fish for over limit, then what? Oops, more then one question! Anyway, that's my take on it.

Tight Lines!

Fish-Crazy: Captn. Virgil D. Tent


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## Dixie Chicken (Nov 12, 2004)

Virgil,

Just to set the record straight. I did NONE of the work that EZMarc, Shortdrift or Hetfield did. I, like you was just thanking them for their efforts.
They spent time and money to listen and be heard. Then they put it all together in a neat and easy to use package for all of us anglers! You brought alot of good points in your post.

DC


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## woodworker2001 (Jan 23, 2006)

I agree with Fish Crazy to some extent. 

I feel that getting rid of commercial netting altogether is a huge mistake. GREATLY Increasing the FINES and enforcing them is the answer to our problem. Commercial netters take thousands of tons of White Perch, Sheephead, and other junk fish out of the lake each year. For use sport fisherman they are doing us a huge favor. I strongly believe that if you take them away completely the population of such fish will greatly increase on Lake Erie, possibly to the point of hurting Yellow Perch and Walleye populations. However dont take my point as being one of in favor of the current system. I dont believe for one second that a commercial fisherman should be subjected to a lesser fine than a sportsman, if anything it should be worse. Commercial fisherman has the potential to take far more fish over the limit than a sportsman, so why is the penalty for a commercial fisherman so much less than that of a sportsman. I dont believe that the problem is in having commercial netting, but rather in the system of enforcement and penalty for breaking the current rules. If you have a little child who you are teaching to not get into the cookie jar, when he gets into the cookie jar and takes 5 cookies you dont fine him 2 cookies, and let him keep 3 cookies. This is what our current system of fines is doing. A commercial fisherman overbags 2 million dollars worth of fish and we fine him 500,000 dollars. OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO IT THEY MADE A PROFIT EVEN AFTER THE FINE DOING IT. Where is the risk in this?

Just my two cents and I will email this same info to the powers that be.


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## keepinitreel (Apr 11, 2004)

> Commercial netters take thousands of tons of White Perch, Sheephead, and other junk fish out of the lake each year.



I totally agree about the increased fines but I think it's illogical to say they take "other junk fish". Can you justify the thousand of tons of the "junk fish" taken from the lake? What do they do with the "junk fish"? I would like to see statistics and studies before I believe that statement. Believe me, I do not have a passion for undesirable fish especially if they are nonindigenous species.

If you could pass on the information...it would be helpful.

Thank You

PS Thank you guys (our unoffical commitee members). I sent my emails and I am going to pass the information on to my fishing club as well.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

i just sent 26 emails in support of the ban. i feel the nets are a hazard and should be removed for that reason alone.

not to mention the poaching  ..i do not feel that an increase in fines will deter anyone set on poaching. if they think they can get away with it they will keep doing it. once a criminal always a criminal. the prize is just too big..

i sent to every email address EZMARC posted the following email;


subject: commerical net buyout
i support the buyout. get rid of the nets. tom (my last name)


it wasn't much and it took a little while, but a small price to pay if the buyout is successful.

almost forgot..thanks EZMARC, SHORTDRIFT AND HETFIELDINN for the time you men spent and the info you relayed here.


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## Fishpro (Apr 6, 2004)

Woodworker is right on the money. The commercial fishermen DO take out thousands of pounds of "undesierable" fish each year. They ship many of them to bigger cities on the east coast and other areas for thier markets. What happens when you throw your bait in the lake for a walleye and the white perch strip it before it has a chance to be seen by a walleye? It happens now, but it will be worse if this buy out happens. What about when the carp population explodes and there are so many spawning in the area you want to bass fish is unfishable, and trust me, they will be EVERYWHERE if commercial fishing is stopped. What about shoreline erosion and habitat destruction where the overpopulation of carp is spawning? It won't happen overnight but I bet 20 years from now, we'll be saying "man, where did all the "junk fish" come from?" "It never used to be like this"! Yes there are people who deserve to have thier licenses taken away for good, but not all of them do. The Great Lakes need commercial fishing!!


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

1. The commercial netters have had their chance. They have shown for the most part they are all about Greed !! They must be stopped now !! 

2. Do not worry about the so called junk fish they take out !!! Nature has their way of balancing out everything. Remember years back they said the zebbra mussel would kill the lake ?? Well that did not happen.

3. And what about the money sport fishing brings in every year in Ohio ??? It is nothing to the few dollars the state gets from the comerrical liscences and the taxes these guys pay. We have one of the greatest fresh water lakes in the world. And if we stop these netters and maybe someday the ones North of the boarder I could only imagine what we could have ? Sportfishing and the walleye come back because of a ban on NETTING is what made Port Clinton and the whole Lake what it is today !! 

4. I plan on sending my E-mails out today to express my opinion on the Buy out of the netters today. I hope everyone else takes the time to do the same ?


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## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

the sport dollars vs commercial dollars generated for ohio are about 10:1 and even some commercial dollars go to ontario when the fish are processed there

in the senate hearings they said that the tac of perch by sportfishing and commercial was only 29%---sounds like we are going backwards and need a moratorium on the perch harvest or should we let the commercial guys continue to overbag?

we must protect our water and natural resource instead of exploiting it

we need rep calvert to call the vote on hb609 instead of having the bill die

at this rate we have a better chance of seeing the browns in the superbowl


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

The following comparison was presented by the ODNR during the Senate Hearing. The cost to police and enforce the current law's relative to Commercial Fishing is $400,000 while the amount collected for license fee's is $120,000.


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## Billfish (Apr 14, 2004)

I too, would like to offer my thanks to everyone who attened the Senate hearing last Wednesday. I was also thee and was one of the individuals who testified before the committee. A tremedous number of supporters waited the additional 3 hours for the start of the hearing even thought many were greatly inconvenienced . I also want to compliment the accurate snyposis of the meeting. Keep the pressure on!!!


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

The data I've seen about taking of other species other than perch is pretty low compared to the money making perch harvest. There are things that bother me about the catfish and carp harvest that I don't think many people think about. 

That is the State of Ohio warns everyone that buys a fishing license to not eat carp or catfish from certain areas of Lake Erie and their tributaries. At the same time commercial netters are allowed to harvest those same fish and then to sell them to fish markets without any warning. Could this be the reason that so many in the east Coast cities act so strangely?

This really doesn't have anything to do with my views on the buyout but it has been an anomoly that has bugged me for quite some time. 

I don't know what the repercussions would be if those fish were no longer harvested but I've seen no reports on increases in undesirable species in other areas of the world where netting was banned, and that is happening all over the world. If there is data somewhere on this, I would like to see it, as the only ones that have stated that opinion were those that are at risk of losing their licensing.


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

Let's face it-- Yellow Perch is where their money is at !!! Why else would they be poaching and lieing about their quota's so much ??? Any thing else the catch in those trap nets is a bonus. Just a thought ? I was reading another site today - Talking about 15" perch-- What if these netters where put out of bussiness ?????? Maybe we would start to see a larger grade of perch in the lake ???


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

The netters are Erie's undesirable species. No apologies here. The sooner they go extinct the better.


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## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

hearttxp said:


> Let's face it-- Yellow Perch is where their money is at !!! Why else would they be poaching and lieing about their quota's so much ??? Any thing else the catch in those trap nets is a bonus. Just a thought ? I was reading another site today - Talking about 15" perch-- What if these netters where put out of bussiness ?????? Maybe we would start to see a larger grade of perch in the lake ???


 i can consistantly catch bigger perch in cleveland than in lorain----ive never got close to a 14-3/4 " perch in lorain where most of the trapnetting is done but i did in cleveland many times---my friend had a 15


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## gotme1 (Jun 27, 2006)

Has anyone thought of making up a petition like whats going on with(VHS) the out of state stocking programs It may get a better response don't know too much about making one up. Just thought I would ask .. MAY BE WE CAN GET ONE GOING THEN PRINT ALL THE NAMES AND SEND IT TO OUR SENATE .. THATS IF IT'S NOT TOO LATE..

HERE IS THE LINK TO GET ONE GOING
http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html


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## T-180 (Oct 18, 2005)

Thank you very much Shortdrift, ezmarc, & Hetfieldinn for representing us sportsmen and for all the information and links to the involved legislators. I sent an e-mail to each one listed , as well as to my senator and governor Taft. I urge everyone to take a couple minutes and drop a quick note to your representative and senator. Hopefully they move quickly on this issue.
Thanks again guys , great job !!!
Tim


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

I sent an email to Senator Harris this AM... I thought I'd share his reply with you all.

Good to see we're at least being heard on the issue. Thanks to all who took the time and went to the hearings. As a sport fisherman in Ohio, you are all in my gratitude.
**************************************

December 8, 2006



Dear Mr. Bachtel:



Thank you for your recent correspondence expressing support for Senate Bill 351 and House Bill 609, to establish the commercial fishing buy out program. 



Senate Bill 351 was recently introduced and is awaiting referral to a committee, while House Bill 609 is currently pending in the House Finance & Appropriations Committee. I appreciate your opinion and will use it as a source of information when making any decision on how to vote should these bills move forward in the Senate. 



Thank you again for your correspondence. Always feel free to contact my office with any questions or concerns you may have.



Sincerely,



Bill Harris

State Senator

19th Senate District 
******************************************

I urge everyone to contact your elected officials and communicate your feelings on this issue. Also, direct them here so they can see our discussions first hand.


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

Every body of water in Ohio has junk or undesirable fish in them. If some of you are proposing that the commercial fishermen are doing us a favor by controlling their population the facts do not support that line of thinking.

No commercial fishing is permitted in Ohios inland lakes that I am aware of. Why have the junk species not taken over these lakes ? This is just propaganda that the commercial fellows want the sportfishermen to believe. The answer is not increasing the fines. The market price will soar to make the risk worth it. They look at it as just another cost of doing business.

Greed always wins in the end when human beings are involved. Look at the fines and jail time for illegal drugs. The lure of big money makes those so inclined to decide the reward is worth the risk. 

Sportfishing never hurt the blue pike population in lake erie but gillnetting the spawners of that species certainly did. Lets support the buyout so the perch do not join the bluepike on the extinct list.


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## Bobinstow90 (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks to those who have attended the hearings and started this thread. It has become a great avenue for people to become informed and to voice their opinions both here on OGF and to the lawmakers.

In a free enterprise system, it doesn't seem like a good idea for government to legislate what businesses should and should not exist. In addition, based on the info at Ohio Sea Grant, noone with marine biology credentials seems to believe that commercial and sport fishing cannot coexist on Lake Erie if they are managed properly.

This is an enforcement and regulation issue rather than an overharvesting issue. If Ohio bans commercial fishing, that will have no influence on commercial fishing in Michigan, Ontario, New York or PA. In fact, it would remove the Ohio voice in the overall management of commercial fishing on Lake Erie.

Beef up the monitoring and the fines for violation. Drive those abusive commercial fishermen off the lake through severe fines for violation. Pass the enforcement cost on to the industry by increasing licensing fees. 

The buy out appears to be a quick fix to a difficult problem. With government involved, that's scary.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I am planning to drive back to Columbus and attend the next Senate Hearing when the Commercial Fishermem will present their reason's for opposition to H.B.351.

Was wondering if anyone else from my general area would like to share the ride. We could meet at I-71 and Rt18 or the truck stop area at I-71 and 76.
PM me if you would like to make the trip.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Shortdrift said:


> I am planning to drive back to Columbus and attend the next Senate Hearing when the Commercial Fishermem will present their reason's for opposition to H.B.351.
> 
> Was wondering if anyone else from my general area would like to share the ride. We could meet at I-71 and Rt18 or the truck stop area at I-71 and 76.
> PM me if you would like to make the trip.


not wanting to get off the subject of this thread but when is the hearing?


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I'll post that date as soon as we get the info.


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## Moonlighter (Jun 20, 2006)

I read in one pretty well composed post on this thread that the Lake Erie Perch population just got healthy, yet the same post says now it's threatened by netters. Did it not get healthy then while they were netting then? Also, if the netters are removed, another post alluded to bigger perch. I think just the opposite could happen and you will end up with nothing but tiny one's when they become so abundant they can't compete for food. Like a small farm pond can get. Like the deer population in urban areas where culling or controls are needed. Not sure if removing them will solve all the problems or just create other problems, like too many tiny perch. But I'd personally put money on that happening down the road. Maybe they shoud be forced to use smaller nets, less capacity or something. Even long lines on the bottom or something with hooks instead of the nets. They have a three strike law for felons' so just enact something similar for netters. Comply or receive a life time ban.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

Here's an article that was published in Scene magazine on this subject.



http://www.clevescene.com/Issues/2006-09-06/news/feature.html


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Moonlighter,

To me personally this issue is not about the fishery itself. I trust the DNR to evaluate and make the correct calls in this area. They are much more qualified than me or probably even you in this area.

To me this is about a small group of individuals that have a long track record of documented violations against the people of Ohio solely for financial gain. 

To me this is about a small group that willfully continues to violate, solely for financial gain, the trust of the residents of Ohio and their shared resource.

To me this is about a small group that has through their own, willful, continued, documented, illegal activities, finally pushed the residents of Ohio to say enough is enough.

To me it's about a very small group that continues to break the law by stealing from you and me. To me it is secondary whether they are stealing fish, poaching deer or illegally cutting timber in Ohio forests for sale. The activities alone should be the primary focus in my mind.

If a timber company is issued a state permit to cut trees on Ohio lands and they continually violate the laws do we buy back the permit, no it's revoked. If a hunter poached deer do we buy back his hunting license, no it's revoked. If a fisherman loses his license due to violations do we buy it back, no it's revoked. In this case the offer is to purchase to license from habitual offenders. What a sweet deal for them this proposal is.

To me this isn't about how big the perch may or may not become or how many rough fish may or may not populate the lake. It's a simple case of continued violations against all residents of Ohio for financial gain and how long we continue to look the other way before taking action.

That is what this is really about to me.


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## Moonlighter (Jun 20, 2006)

That's a very good read from the Scene Magazine. I read several good points. That the DNR can regulate the fishery and when they're advice is followed all is fine. I absolutely agree with that and that's who should make the decision about fishing. I have no argument about banning the current netters if they are the violaters, but the DNR should be trusted to allow for a certain harvest. If they ban the netters will they automatically increase the sport limit again for the millions of fish not being netted? If not, I do see nothing but smaller perch and more diseases in the future as the article pointed out. I think commercial fisherman perform a service when they do things legally. So if they're illegal, ban them, but let the DNR regulate the fishery, not five million sportfisherman. They are scientists, we are not. I think this all just comes down to politics and sportfishing dollars and power. Much the same as deer bag limits comes down to auto insurance companies and farm bureaus.


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## mbass8dor (May 9, 2004)

I have a salution to stop these Illegal netters?
They say that this is there livelyhood, And the fines don't stop them!
Well if the state starts doing to these violators, The same as drug 
Dealers, Confiscate everything including their boats! Then perhaps
This will send a strong message to those who violate our laws!
But we need a Justice system, That quits pampering the criminals!

Tom


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm sure there will be several option's explored befor the whole issue is over.


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

http://toledoblade.com:80/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061210/COLUMNIST22/612100362/-1/NEWS17

Another one about Canada on WC http://www.walleyecentral.com/articles/?a=1370&returl=/pros/index.php


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Those are two very informative articles. I hope that all those members following this Thred will read them completely.


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

well, whoever thinks that the undersireable fish need to be controlled....?
they are a part of the food chain and fish like walleye will eat them. and taking out commercial fisherman will not hurt the lake. It will help it.

HOW long did lake erie survive without commercial fishing. Before man even walked the earth! 

I think some of us may have to do some research on the environment and how it works. the only reason you are catching numerous amounts of 7 inch perch is because they can swim thru the holes of the nets. FYI the World record i believe i 4lbs caught out of the mississippi river. Yes that is a yellow perch. Why dont we have 2 pound perch????????? or the world record walleye. Pretty sure thats a 22 pound record caught in kentucky? this is the "walleye capital of the world"

And the nets are hazardous. Over the summer i saw at least 4-5 miles of net after net just outside of the sandbar. Those guys had to have made their quota long before sept. lorain was stacked with fish all year. I would not be surprised if they were making on last run at a huge harvest b/f the buyout.

Besides, do you really think canada will end commercial fishing anytime soon? No way! they will "manage" the undesireables.

and who cares about the 100 jobs that will be lost. Its only 100 jobs(maybe 200) amongst 11 million people in the state. thats like .00002 percent of the population.

Sure lake erie can survive with commercial fishing. But all the potential of this resource is lost with it.


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## joe01 (Apr 16, 2004)

I think this is a great time to bring up a few more issues. I understand netting has been raping our waters for a long time, its big biz! We need to stop comm-fishing or buy out half of the license out there right now. There are very few companies that have not had a violation. The ones who have been good, and keep what they are allowed by law, should be kept. Any company who has been fined more than once in 2 years should be shut down and bought out.

Besides the commercial netting issue, we should really address the transportation of any fish betwen the Great Lakes region that the Federal Govt. has put a regulation on. Because of this issue, we can no longer trade catfish for steelhead, & we will see the cost of live bait minnows,shiners and flathead chubs rise. Steelhead fishing will be on decline, and yet, we're going to sit here and twiddle our thumbs while no one wants to do anything about it.

My third issue is the dumping of raw sewage into Lake Erie. Everyone wants to complain about Cleveland dumping into Lake Erie, but every city along the shoreline of the lake is dumping also. Us as fisherman and conservationists, should address all three of these issues so that our children can have the opportunity to fish on such a wonderful lake as ours.

We on this forum have been focusing mainly on the commercial netting issue while the other issues are just as important. I would suggest that since we all have the contact information for our congressmen and senators, that we also address these other important points.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Joe01, good information for sure. We support all those issues for sure. Great discussion .
Just a reminder to all, please keep this thread as it has been going without politics. 
I for one have enjoyed reading the comments here. It shows how sportsman can and do stick together. Thanks to all that have commented.


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

Ballast water transfer (the probable cause of the VHS) is a federal issue and it would be a whole new set of addresses. Contacting your Ohio reps may help a little by making them more aware but the real power there is with the feds.

Raw sewage is also a federal issue but with more state control. Every city has some type of program to stop or reduce this and billions have been spent and many billions more have to be spent yet (maybe trillions). Where does the money come from?


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## smittyou812s (Jul 10, 2006)

I am with the buy out of the licenses of commercial fisherman in ohio. However, The ODNR needs to make an international agreement with canada. In all my years on lake erie I can't count how many times I have seen canadian nets on the Ohio side of the border. I have a memmory, as a teenager, when a canadian commercial fishing boat had nets about 22 miles north of bula in ohio waters. They turned around when we trolled by they're nets and headed for us! They started shouting over a loud speaker for us to leave the area and some other choice words. They were intent on running us off or sinking us I'll put it mildly.That was in the late 80's and till this day I still find they're nets on our side. Since the Gov has cut the budgets for the coast guard there seems to be no patrols there. Most of the Walleye migrate out of the western basin straight north to canada then east. Our regulations in the states only help a small portion of the fish. If you don't believe me look at your local grocery store walleye is $13 + a pound! All the signs will say " FRESH CANADIAN WALLEYE" where do you think they came from? An international agreement has to be made to protect this great resource or the walleye will fall prey to the consumer just like the chilean sea bass. Which was just dirt cheap 10 years ago and 2 years ago $25 a pound! Now it's almost an endangered ocean fish due to over fishing. Sportfisherman/woman need to stand up now and voice our thoughts on the Walleye. If not the walleye is going to become the bison of the 1800's! These are just my thoughts, But I live/Love to fish!


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

It disturbs me to see fellow sport fishermen speak out in support for commercial fishermen. The one article stated that 40 ton of perch were illegally taken. If we were to assume that the fish weighed 1 lb apiece that would be 80,000 fish.

If any one of you were to witness another sports fisherman catching well over his limit you would be outraged. Lets say this fictional character caught twenty walleye and kept everyone of them. Yet the overage is minute compared to the commercial that chooses to cheat.

I admit that I am not a biologist. But I remember when there was no limit on perch for the sportsmen. No one can deny that technology has made fishing more efficient. Commercial fishing has benefited from this electronics age also. While Lake Erie is a huge lake it pales in size compared to any ocean. Yet some species are being threatened in the oceans due to over harvest. This same deadly efficiency is being applied to the Great Lakes. 

All fish populations fluctuate due to spawning conditions prevalent to each species. I have lived long enough to see no bag limit on perch dropped to 30 a day. I wonder if I will see it dropped to 10 before I die. I realize they upped it to 40 this year. But it can go back down just as quick. Can anyone think that sportfishing caused the need for a daily limit ?

I keep refering to the bluepike as an example. For years this species withstood sportsmen bagging huge numbers of fish. My father and grandfather used to relate these stories. After World War II , 1945 to about 1953 the blue pike disappeared. Most versions of this sad tale blame the commercial fishermen. Their gillnets wiped out entire spawning classes of that fish. Read the sad history of it and see what conclusion you come up with. Remember the technical age had not even started yet back then.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I checked the Senate schedule on the Internet and it shows the Hearing listed at 2:30 PM on Wed the 13th. 
I am planning to go and listen. Anyone else going?

I'm sure it will be interesting to hear what the Commercial Fishermen have to say regarding their action's.


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## joe01 (Apr 16, 2004)

Shortdrift, I would love to attend the hearing, My only problem is my wife is due any time now, and this sunday was the frist time I got out fishing in 3 weeks. Yes, I said it 3 weeks . Please let us know what happens at the hearing!!!


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## fishon (Apr 20, 2004)

Thank you ShortDrift, Ezmarc and Het,....

after reading all the articals and got up to date on this huge issue, i went a head and sent 10 emails to our Representives that was listed for our convience by Marc.....

thank you for compling all the information... and keeping us informed...

I'm looking foward to Shortdrifts report from Wednesday's meeting...

together we can make difference, and this is another example of how to....





Frank


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

I can't make it Weds due to booking a charter and quite possibly my last til March. 

These hearings are so informative and this one will be the opponent hearing ie: the commercial netters and their supporters presenting their case. Please get ahold of Shortdrift if you can make it there.


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## Weatherby (May 27, 2005)

Took me awhile but I have sent an email to everyone on the list. 


For those that are attending the hearing please keep us informed.


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## FAT CAT (Feb 14, 2006)

Anyone interested in watching the Senate hearing tomorrow and can't make to Columbus can watch it on their computer. Go to this link http://www.ohiochannel.org/
and you can setup to watch House, Senate or Supreme Court sessions. If you are going to do it, try it out well ahead of time. You likely will have to downlaod a viewer and need a little time to become familiar with it. You can look at archived sessions for practice. Once it is setup it works great if you have a reasonably good computer and speedy connection. I am using it with a high speed cable connection which really helps.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for a great piece of information Fat Cat. I hope many of the OGF members have a chance to view and/or record the Hearing. 

Yes, I plan to wave at the camera.


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

Give 'em Heck Ron!!!!  [email protected]


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

I put an update on WBSA's Denied page tonight. http://westernbasinsportfishingassociation.com/denied/report.html

I'm sure that Shortdrift will add to it since he was the note taker. Very interesting and informative. there weren't any cameras but he did where a OGF hat for you all!


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

The following summary by EZMARC pretty much covers the Hearing and what took place. I left the Hearing with a feeling of guarded optimism and hope that a modified Bill will be voted on and passed by the Senate. It will then be up to the Representative's to modify and pass their revised version. 
Hopefully Representative Calvert will do his best to get this accomplished.

I also agree with Marc's comment's regarding Representative Redfern and Ex State Representative Dennis Opfer. Seems that both of these individuals brought nothing to the Hearing other than "window dressing". 

To itemize the presentation of each Commercial Fishermen's and Fish Processor's comments would be quite difficult, but it is obvious the group as a whole recognizes the need for more accountability on their part as well as internal policing of their activities. 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SB351 hearing 12/13/06

Today's Senate Bill 351 hearing was about a revision in the bill that would double the voluntary and involuntary buyout payments, triple the cost of commercial licensing, create better accountability with GPS type systems for catch tracking, increased and automatic penalty's (including license removals and suspensions) for habitual offenses and a general toughening of the laws and the enforcement of them. In essence it would take some of the favoritism shown by the courts and make the penalty's more in line with what happens to sportsmen for the same offenses.

There is another scheduled (possible) meeting tomorrow(12/14) morning to make any final amendments and then it could go before the Senate for a vote yet this week with the House having hearings and a possible vote next week.

I believe that the additional emails and correspondence in the last week has really helped to fast track these bills, and the changes to the original bills are all very welcome news to me. The honest guys will get to keep their jobs and businesses and the ones convicted of felonies last year will be told to look for a new line of work if the bills pass. Another set of emails offering support of the sub bill may be in order for those so inclined.

The commercial fishermen that testified today were for the most part well spoken, upfront about trying to correct issues and aired their complaints in a mostly courteous and forthright manner. I may not have agreed with everything that they quoted as fact but I have much more respect for the group in general, that I heard today, than I thought I would before attending. As usual with most issues the truth laid somewhere in the middle of everything that was spun at us from both sides of the issues at hand.

Representative Redfern was on hand to state his opposition to the bill as he has been all along. He says more study needs to be done before taking any action. Whatever his stand is on the issue he has done nothing himself to try and correct any of the problems so I am suspect as to why he is taking such a stand, especially since it is his district that is so heavily involved. 

Ex State Representative Dennis Opfer was also on hand to state his opposition and I heard nothing from him that would appease a sport fisherman either. I think that continuing to do business as usual at this point would be almost criminal in and of itself.

To reiterate what I feel has upset so many recreational fishermen about this issue is this. We all know that there are recreational fishermen that bend and break the rules. Most of us support the fact that when Wildlife officers write tickets to these offenders of fish and game laws, that the offenders are dealt with strictly and for the most part with expensive consistency. I feel and think that most of you feel that a commercial fisherman, as a professional, should be held to stricter standards than a sport fisherman is simply because he is professional and because of the amount of damage they can do with one boatload versus a few fish over each trip. What has been seen as an injustice by so many of us in the past is now finally almost corrected and it's about time.

Now maybe somehow, someway we can get the commercial guys to put some battery or solar operated lights on those net flags so we can actually see them at night before we get our gear and boats wrapped up in them.

Marc Hudson
WBSA Pres.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO AGAIN SEND AN E-MAIL TO THE SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES AND ASK THAT THEY PASS A REVISED VERSION OF THE BILL.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

thanks for the update guys. glad we had reps there to show the powers that be this is an issue with sportfisherman also..

HOWEVER, not being there to hear their side of the story  ....i still stand firm in complete removal of ALL commerical fishing nets..they might play nice for a few years now that some of them got caught.. do you really believe they will keep following the law once this all calms down? I PERSONALLY DO NOT.. buy them out and get those nets out of ohio waters...

looks like i got more emails to send.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

One comment I found most interesting yesterday was: There are too many walleye and they are depleting the perch.!!!!!


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Shortdrift said:


> One comment I found most interesting yesterday was: There are too many walleye and they are depleting the perch.!!!!!


hum, i wonder which pays more per pound. perch or walleye..just a thought.


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

EZbite, I like the bill better than a complete buyout. This way if they mess up they lose their license instead of getting paid from a buyout because of the coruption.

Scott


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Papascott said:


> EZbite, I like the bill better than a complete buyout. This way if they mess up they lose their license instead of getting paid from a buyout because of the coruption.
> 
> Scott


im not trying to start an arguement... whos to say if one commerical fisherman gets caught and looses his license then his buddy or 1st mate can't just take over where he left off? see what im trying to say? sure you bust one guy breaking the law, but because of the high profit theres always going to be someone to step in and take over(money talks). im not trying to say commerical fisherman are crooks. by no means do i belive that.. but the few who are will keep doing what they want reguardless of the consequences..thats my oppinion on the matter. i hope i didnt offend anyone to much. i still say remove them from ohio waters.


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## 03zrider (May 17, 2004)

what a great thread.i do have a question about it though.let me first say that i totally support removing all the nets but,we are not the only state with access to erie waters wont a ban just push the poachers to other waters?is there some sort of govening body which would cover the whole lake or would it just cover ohio water?


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

The Great Lakes Fishery Commission is the governing body as far as setting TACS. http://www.glfc.org/home.php 

It is up to each individual state or province on how they allocate those catches. Since Ontario has almost no Sportfishing they allocate their share to the commercial fishermen. All of our walleye go to sport fishermen and the perch are shared about equally with the commercial netters with some differences in sizes allowed and open seasons.


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## joe01 (Apr 16, 2004)

I also agree with Marc's comment's regarding Representative Redfern and Ex State Representative Dennis Opfer. Seems that both of these individuals brought nothing to the Hearing other than "window dressing". 

It makes me pi$$ off that present and Past State Reps Did not prepare for a hearing. this is what we elect. Who knows what they are doing on other issuses.


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## woodworker2001 (Jan 23, 2006)

Let me first start this by thanking those who had the deadication and drive to attend these hearings for all of us on an issue which we all share much passion about. That was a great summation of the events which was very informative, and I think written in an unbiased way no matter what the opinions of Ezmarc and shortdrift are. Thank you again guys. 

I think that their changes to the bill are a great comprimise which will provide a good nonradical solution. I want people to remember that if we give this a try for 3-5 years and problems still exists and nothing changes, we can always go back and completely eliminate commercial fishing. One additional change which could be made to eliminate the problem of a mate or another employee accquiring a license after poaching offenses would be that no employee of a company, at the time of the offense, can accquire a commercial fishing license. Just something to think about. I hope that the senate does take action on this bill, but I am not in favor of a complete buyout and elimination. I dont feel it is right for the gov't to spend money to take away the license of criminals. We could take the money offering in a complete buyout deal and use it to create or up the policing bodies in charge of regulating commercial fisherman. Just my 2cents. 

Thanks again to those attending the hearings.


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## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

woodworker2001 said:


> I want people to remember that if we give this a try for 3-5 years and problems still exists and nothing changes, we can always go back and completely eliminate commercial fishing. .



just a thought-----

if the complete buyout did take place and the lake became filled to the brim with perch and walleye----would this be a bigger problem?

and if the fishery became overcrowded---the commercial sector could be brought back in a controlled manner with , hopefully, a more thought out program with a perch program to manage the fishery----without the big money incentive interfering with the program


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I have been checking with both the House as well as the Senate and it appears as though nothing else has taken place since last week. 
I will say that it was obvious some elected officials are strongly opposed to this Buy-Out and there is a good chance they have managed to have it tabled at this time.
We will let you know as soon as we get any word regarding the status and also advise if we can identify those that have created the current delay.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Got the word that the Buy-Out was defeated.  I hope that each member of OGF will participate again next year when this is again introduced.
Thanks to everyone that took the time to support the Bill.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Shortdrift said:


> Got the word that the Buy-Out was defeated.  I hope that each member of OGF will participate again next year when this is again introduced.
> Thanks to everyone that took the time to support the Bill.


thanks for your effort. keep us up to speed. you WILL have my support.


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

Another good article by D'Arcy!

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1166867282220980.xml&coll=2


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

Scary read

http://www.brigniagara.org/fishing.htm

Another

http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/envt/fish/fish_2.html


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

I hope everyone has a fun, safe Christmas and a very happy New Year, but right after that, please do NOT let up on the pressure. Keep the emails going to your elected officials. Keep the pressure on to get this issue adderessed.

Thanks to all who took the time to write the politicians, those who brought the issue to the forefront here on OGF, and those who actually took the time to address the legislature directly. We do have a voice, and it's time we spoke up and used it.

I wish you all the best.


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