# Tying Question



## O-H-Fly-O (Mar 28, 2010)

Hey Guys,

I am having Clouser issues... I am tying a standard clouser minnow for bass in the 'hoga, and the bass are wiping out the colored wing of my fly. I tie in the white in front of the dumbell eyes and then behind as well, then tie in my colored deer hair in front of the eyes only. When I get a decent fish, all the colored deer hair pulls out during the fight. I end up with a pretty sad looking fly, that has to be re-tied. Bummer. Any thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## striperrams (Aug 26, 2010)

Maybe I can help you a bit. When you tie in your white bucktail (the belly) make 4 or 5 moderate tension wraps behind the lead eyes and bring your thread forward and make a few tighter wraps on the bucktail in front of the eyes...pull about 1/4 of the bucktail butts up at a 90 degree and make a few more tight wraps in front of the previous wraps on the remaining butts. Repeat this a few times. Of course, cut these butts at the tie in point. This procedure cinches down the bucktail butts in stages. It provides a smooth transition to the eye of the hook too. Turn the hook over and tie your colored bucktail on just in front of the lead eyes with a few moderate wraps and add more thread pressure as you go forward with the thread towards the hook eye. By using the same method as above.. in other words cinching smaller clumps of bucktail at a time you can effectively bind the bucktail to the hook shank. One more thing you can do is to put a drop or two of super glue on the portion of white bucktail that goes "over" the dumb bell eyes to keep it from fraying on fish teeth etc...Also, tie you lead eyes on about 1/4 of the hook shank legnth behind the hook eye. If you tie the eyes too close to the eye, you really reduce the portion of hook shank to lash down the bucktail which makes it pull out easier.


----------



## oarfish (May 12, 2004)

Tie the Clouser with monofilament and use super glue.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I think the real answer is.... drumrrrrrrrrrrrrrroolllllllll.....



















Don't use bucktail. Simply put, it is not a durable material. Even with the use of superglue & fancy wraps, it's going to break off sooner than later. I really enjoy the action of bucktail but it's proven itself to fail me during the course of catching more than one fish. They will destroy it quickly regardless. 

Synthetics offer a durable alternative with numerous advantages, of which I think the most important would be durability, length of the fibers, ease of tying and selection of colors. 


I use a lot of chartreuse and another disadvantage I've found with bucktail is that it loses its color very quickly. Chartreuse turns to a stale yellow after about 3 fishing trips.


----------



## RonT (May 4, 2008)

I tie any hair wing in by first throwing a loop around the hair only, then cinching the hair bundle up or down to the hook shank. I also prep the butt end with a drop of head cement worked into clump.
Typically I'll tie a wrap or two behind the eyes first then "figure eight" to a couple times to the front.
Are you tying the top clump at the front only to achieve a lift or upright profile?
R


----------



## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

just move your eyes back some then you will tie down more of your colored materials. I had the same issue when i first started tying.


----------



## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

fallen513 said:


> I think the real answer is.... drumrrrrrrrrrrrrrroolllllllll.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with this assessment. Bucktail is brittle and is very stiff material and will only last a few good hits although they work very well at catching. I am lucky to get a 3 fish on them before it goes into my used fly boxes. Always plan on tying a big supply. Another good hair and is my favorite is Yak Hair. I use this a lot on my my musky flies cause it is much daurable than bucktail. Synthetics are the way to go but it you want an natural fly then you have to put up losing the durability. Lately, Fox tail has been really great but not easily to find which is the way I am going with. Synthetic is good but IMO it doesnt match what natural hair has so I will use it both into a fly.


----------



## striperrams (Aug 26, 2010)

Synthetics do make a nice looking fly, but I still prefer the natural bucktail on Clousers. If the bucktail seems brittle or stiff you're probably using the hair that's closer to the base of the tail(where it attaches to the animal)...don't use this hair. Use the hair that's closer to the tip of the tail, it has more kink to it and is not brittle like base hair. Don't give up on tying with bucktail as once you get the hang of it, it's very easy to do. If you prefer synthetics, that's good too. I've used clousers and other bucktail flies in salt water and have caught many fish on them and they still looked good so hang in there.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I really prefer the action of bucktail myself. I have less of an issue with it being brittle than I do with it losing its color.

That being said, I still tie all of my smaller clousers with bucktail.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

If the only issue you're having is the bucktail pulling out, really cheap superglue is going to be the answer.


The cheap stuff permeates just about everything & bonds immediately. The fumes are really toxic though so make sure you're not hovering above the fly as you apply it or you'll know it.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

O-H-Fly-O said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I am having Clouser issues...



Post some pictures so we can check them out!


----------



## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

Or stop fishing clausers and use zonkers for more tail action.
I've got nothing against Clousers but I only use them in clear water now and only tie the colors with synthetics as others have said.
Have you tried the Clouser crayfish for bass? K I L L E R ! Short little 6-8 inch strips on the retrieve.

Rickerd


----------



## striperrams (Aug 26, 2010)

Here's a Clouser I used this past June at Cape Cod...caught some stripers on it and still ok. If it would have been bluefish eating it, it would have been totally shredded as would a lot of flies. That's where some of the synthetic flies shine...toothy fish.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Regardless of materials used, one thing is for sure...



Clouser minnows are about the best fly you can use for just about every species!


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

striperrams said:


> Here's a Clouser I used this past June at Cape Cod...caught some stripers on it and still ok. If it would have been bluefish eating it, it would have been totally shredded as would a lot of flies. That's where some of the synthetic flies shine...toothy fish.


Striperrams, that looks like some long bucktail! Is that off a standard tail?


----------



## striperrams (Aug 26, 2010)

Fallen, you are right on...Clousers are just good all around flies. The bucktail I used for this fly is called "saltwater" BT. Just graded out tails with longer hair. I bought those tails right here in Ohio. Just a thought, but if anyone wats to give the synthetic "hair" a try on a Clouser, get some SFflash blend and tie up a few. It doesn't have quite the movement bucktail does but close and has some added fine flash built in. It's really good stuff and is pretty much bomb proof, or at least toothy fish proof.


----------



## O-H-Fly-O (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks for the info guys! I'm going to tie up some fly's tonight, and I'll post some pic's.


----------



## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

heres are just a couple clouser patterns I have tied up...


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Really nice flies Matt!


----------



## bnc (Jul 28, 2010)

I have yet to catch a single fish on a clouser. I do work on them with poppers though.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

bnc said:


> I have yet to catch a single fish on a clouser. I do work on them with poppers though.


Are you fishing lakes?


----------



## bnc (Jul 28, 2010)

Mostly lakes, sometimes the cuyahoga.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

bnc said:


> Mostly lakes, sometimes the cuyahoga.


They are a versatile bait & work well in both lakes & rivers...but in my opinion are much better suited for rivers. 


In lakes, try fishing them deep (read: on the bottom) or along weedlines where baitfish will normally hold. 

In rivers, cast them upstream @ a 45 degree angle, let them sink as they come downstream & begin mending/stripping as they pass you in the river, swimming them across and down the current. 

They work.


----------



## bnc (Jul 28, 2010)

fallen513 said:


> They are a versatile bait & work well in both lakes & rivers...but in my opinion are much better suited for rivers.
> 
> 
> In lakes, try fishing them deep (read: on the bottom) or along weedlines where baitfish will normally hold.
> ...


Thanks for the tips, I'll give that a shot next time I'm out.

I should probably also get a sinking line, or sink tips. Trying to fish the bottom with a floating line is difficult.


----------



## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

ya I have caught on ponds and rivers but never tried a lake you'd need sinking tips and all for sure!


----------



## O-H-Fly-O (Mar 28, 2010)

Hey Guys, here are some pic's of my clousers. I've only been tying less than a year, so please excuse the sloppiness!


----------



## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Fishaholic69 said:


> ya I have caught on ponds and rivers but never tried a lake *you'd need sinking tips and all for sure*!



Not entirely true, in my humble opinion. I fish lakes a ton, mostly from my kayak, and never used my sink tip line one time all year. Granted I was not fishing particularly deep areas, for that, a sink tip would be good to have, but I caught fish all year long on Clousers and variants with a floating line.

For some reason, my #1 Clouser version was tied half with coyote tail, half with bucktail. I used white bucktail for the belly, coyote tail (natural color) for the top or back as the fly rides point-up. I hammered some of the biggest fish I caught this year on that fly, for some reason it outfished all others. Not sure if it was the color or the action of the coyote, but it produced when nothing else would.


----------



## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

TheCream said:


> Not entirely true, in my humble opinion. I fish lakes a ton, mostly from my kayak, and never used my sink tip line one time all year. Granted I was not fishing particularly deep areas, for that, a sink tip would be good to have, but I caught fish all year long on Clousers and variants with a floating line.
> 
> For some reason, my #1 Clouser version was tied half with coyote tail, half with bucktail. I used white bucktail for the belly, coyote tail (natural color) for the top or back as the fly rides point-up. I hammered some of the biggest fish I caught this year on that fly, for some reason it outfished all others. Not sure if it was the color or the action of the coyote, but it produced when nothing else would.


sorry for the wrong info. guess that what happens if u never fished flies on a lake before. lol. I just pictured lake erie and all being deep. if you want to catch some certain species of fish you might have to go to the bottom. you could prolly catch white bass and stuff all day in the top waters using clousers tho


----------



## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

O-H-Fly-O said:


> Hey Guys, here are some pic's of my clousers. I've only been tying less than a year, so please excuse the sloppiness!



not bad! they will work! one question tho did you use some pearl sparkle chenille for the body??? if so.. there is no need. I just use some use bucktail, some flash in the middle and beadchain eyes.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

If you want to fish your fly on the bottom @ 20' depths, sinking line is a must. If you're fishing lakes, away from the shore...the structure is on the bottom, this is where the fish will hold & it's where they'll be eating. Obviously if you're fishing a 10' deep lake, a 7 or 9' leader will take care of the "sinking" portion. 

As Fishaholic mentioned, the less material the better, especially when talking about getting your fly to sink. Chenille/estaz holds air & will make your fly more buoyant. 

Not a bad thing, but if your fly is staying in the top 6-12" of the water column you're missing out on a lot of fish.


----------



## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Here are a few pics of ones I have done. These are on #6 Mustad 3366's for steelhead. My buddy did well on the all white versions I did for him last year, I did well on olive/white:










The now infamous Coyote Clouser:










And some regular bucktails:


----------



## O-H-Fly-O (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the advice on tougher clousers! This chartruese and white one withstood several scrappy Cuyahoga River bass, including the 16 in. 
largemouth in the photo!


----------



## striperrams (Aug 26, 2010)

Good job...nice fish too.


----------



## O-H-Fly-O (Mar 28, 2010)

This morning I got definitive proof that you have all given great advice on more durable clousers. If my pink and white clouser survived the chompers on the Hoga pike in this photo, I think it will probably hold up to anything! Thanks for the help.


----------

