# School Shooting



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Just saw on the news of a school shooting in CT. Thoughts and prayers go out to the families. So many innocent children lost. For the life of me I just don't see why people do such horrible things.


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## Berliner (Feb 23, 2011)

Makes me wonder about 12-21-12

China had a school knife attack today.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57559179/china-school-knife-attack-leaves-23-injured/


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## jbm_11 (Sep 7, 2010)

I cant imagine...starting to loose faith in mankind. Hug your kids tonight!

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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

Very, very, very, very sad story.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

I heard this news as I was picking my boys up from school, normally they ride the bus... Needless to say I did not wait for the bell to ring. I went in and pulled them out of class a few minutes early.

As sad as I am I an enraged at the actions of this sick sick person! What on earth would ever motivate you to do something soo absurd!?

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## kasting king (Aug 17, 2006)

jlami said:


> I heard this news as I was picking my boys up from school, normally they ride the bus... Needless to say I did not wait for the bell to ring. I went in and pulled them out of class a few minutes early.
> 
> As sad as I am I an enraged at the actions of this sick sick person! What on earth would ever motivate you to do something soo absurd!?
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Picked my kids up a few minuets early today as well. What a sad sad day. Dont know what else to say other than after watching a few clips on the news I am sick to my stomach. Prayers sent


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Sickening is the only way to describe the feeling when hearing about it. It&#8217;s something like this that makes me consider home schooling my boys, where I know they&#8217;ll be *"protected".*


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## cweight (Oct 18, 2012)

Life is precious. Not to diminish what happend today as it was tragic, but these types of events don't happen in the outdoors. I am a strong believer that the outdoors provides my children with a kind safe haven from the crazy world we live. 
Hug and kiss your children every chance you get.


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## CRAPPIE LOVER (Feb 11, 2007)

My Thought's and Prayer's are out to all the families ...Life is too short for some nut case to take the lives of these very young kids..Now they are in God's hand's .. So sad....JIM....CL....


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

There is nothing like having your child shot-down with a gun by another American. I know what it feels like.

May the Lord help bear the weight of their grief. God bless them. Let us all share this burden.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

it is so so sad...but i cant help but think what if one of the 6 adults was armed? what if there was a armed security officer?

the gun folks are going to take this and run... because 2 semi automatic pistols were used...now i dont know the details one guy said shooter was 16 one said 20...either way the pistols were not lawfully obtained for his possesion.


this world is going to hell fast, it scares me to wonder when i have kids(im 23) what will they have to deal with?


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## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

My wife is a retired teacher and taught grades K, 1 and 2 throughout her 32 year teaching career. She was in tears most of the day.

How horrific of an event. 

The gunman has met his Maker today and is receiving his just punishment. 

Those little children killed are in heaven today and will enjoy eternal bliss. How the little ones who lived and witnessed these mass murder will be able to handle the event mentally throughout their lives is beyond me.

My prayers to the parents of the children killed as well as to the families of the teachers/staff killed.

What is the world coming to????????????


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## Smead (Feb 26, 2010)

It's easy to blame guns, I suppose no one would care if a machete were used in these types of violent acts? It's more difficult to address the real issue: people.

For example, it's becoming clear that the accused in the recent Colorado incident was known to have problems that were not taken seriously enough.

Other acts of violence are commited by people who were able to get short sentences on plea deals, or get early release and go right back to the thug life.

The media also is pretty good at hyping their pet issues...violent crime is actually down by quite a large amount.

There's over 300 million people in this country. If only 1/100 of 1% of the population is around the bend nuts, thats a pool of 30,000 crazies capable of just about anything.

The violence perpetrated by criminals, rather than the mentally deranged, should be dealt with by keeping such people in jail for their full sentences and avoiding easy plea deals that yields only short time. Given the recidivism rate, the expense to warehouse them is cost effective as opposed to the cost of the harm they cause.


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

ranger373v said:


> it is so so sad...but i cant help but think what if one of the 6 adults was armed? what if there was a armed security officer?


Teachers with guns? And armed security guards in kindergarten class throughout America? To protect Americans from other Americans? Let's all just start carrying guns so less shootings occur?

Our bang, bang, shoot'em-up freedom has a price. And these kids just paid it!


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## PapawSmith (Feb 13, 2007)

JignPig Guide said:


> Teachers with guns? And armed security guards in kindergarten class throughout America? To protect Americans from other Americans? Let's all just start carrying guns so less shootings occur?
> 
> Our bang, bang, shoot'em-up freedom has a price. And these kids just paid it!


I don't agree. This pathetic display of distorted human behavior could have been easily been carried out by many other means just as fast and even with potentially worse consequences. This has, once again, nothing to do with the guns. Has only to do with the perpetrator. 
This is not a time for a second amendment debate but the media will certainly turn it into that, our President already has. Lets please not do that here. Lets all instead pray for the families of those children that were lost.
God bless them all, please. There are really no words for this, wish I could trade places with them.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

JignPig Guide said:


> Teachers with guns? And armed security guards in kindergarten class throughout America? To protect Americans from other Americans? Let's all just start carrying guns so less shootings occur?
> 
> Our bang, bang, shoot'em-up freedom has a price. And these kids just paid it!


im not sure if it will be any less...but they could be less costly...even if just one life is saved..or 5 or 10... its not about where they were or how old they were a life is a life... like if someone walked in to a hospital and killed 26.... 26 lives is 26 lives. guns arent always the answer...but they do level the playing field


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## dinkcatcher (Jul 4, 2009)

JignPig Guide said:


> Teachers with guns? And armed security guards in kindergarten class throughout America? To protect Americans from other Americans? Let's all just start carrying guns so less shootings occur?
> 
> Our bang, bang, shoot'em-up freedom has a price. And these kids just paid it!


The price of a crazy person was paid today. This place is a "gun free" zone. What more do you want for disarming? One day to magically make every gun disappear? Can't happen so restricting good people obviously isn't the answer. Murder is already illegal, laws are pointless for criminals, it does nothing. Worst case scenario is fish in a barrel and that's what disarming honest people does. This is a tragedy 


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

The Supreme Court should revisit this decision. I know that there were a lot of injustices done to the mentally ill in the past, but I suspect that at least a few of these killers over the past few years would have been confined so that they would never have had the opportunity to commit these evil acts.

In Colorado, Arizona, and Virginia there was plenty of evidence that these people were highly dangerous, but no one has the authority anymore to preemptively institutionalize these maniacs. I'll bet we will find out that this murderer had a significant history of mental illness. He even killed his mother.

Another sad day.

O'CONNOR v. DONALDSON, 422 U.S. 563 (1975) 

1. A State cannot constitutionally confine, without more, a non-dangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by himself or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends, and since the jury found, upon ample evidence, that petitioner did so confine respondent, it properly concluded that petitioner had violated respondent's right to liberty. Pp. 573-576. 

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=422&invol=563


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

PapawSmith said:


> This is not a time for a second amendment debate but the media will certainly turn it into that, our President already has.


What did I miss, how did he do that? I was pretty sure I listened to his entire address, live, I do not recall the 2nd amendment or anything pertaining to it being referenced? Maybe I'm wrong and missed something...

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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Truly heartbreaking and sickening. I couldn't fathom the feelings of losing my child, especially to a homocidal maniac. As populations get more compressed (urban living), people are going to snap. I just wish that when they go on a killing spree, they would shoot themselves first.
[/COLOR] 
When I was a kid, there were "insane asylums." Heck, Orient Ohio used to have one, then they were all turned loose because of legal and funding issues. Where did they go? Who knows.


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## Berliner (Feb 23, 2011)

jlami said:


> What did I miss, how did he do that? I was pretty sure I listened to his entire address, live, I do not recall the 2nd amendment or anything pertaining to it being referenced? Maybe I'm wrong and missed something...
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub
> 
> ampfire





"And we're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics"

This means another Assault Weapons Ban


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## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

PapawSmith said:


> I don't agree. This pathetic display of distorted human behavior could have been easily been carried out by many other means just as fast and even with potentially worse consequences. This has, once again, nothing to do with the guns. Has only to do with the perpetrator.
> This is not a time for a second amendment debate but the media will certainly turn it into that, our President already has. Lets please not do that here. Lets all instead pray for the families of those children that were lost.
> God bless them all, please. There are really no words for this, wish I could trade places with them.


Ok. You quoted me. And you stated... "I don't agree." But what is it that I said that you don't agree with? 
Do you not agree that freedom isn't free? I'll say it again. If freedom isn't free, then these kids paid for the freedom of our Bang, Bang, Shoot'em-up Pow folks.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

See I did not interpret it in that way at all... Misinterpretation can and will cause alt of problems.

The reason being, in my personal research of OBama and his track record he has never touched anything concerning firearms. Never acted for nor against them. Again, if I am mistaken please share facts with me? I am neutral, not a supporter on either side, just strive to be educated.

This comment is not intended to start this thread into politics... 

If you would rather respond via pm I understand and respect that. We should not lose the course that innocent people, men women and children lost there lives today for no justifiable reason. And our prayers and focus should still turn toward them, their families, and their community.

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## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

Guys, please do not make this political. 

Start another thread about how gun control and politics caused this tragedy.

For the time being it is about the tragedy and showing respect and tribute to those grieving over this tragedy. Please keep it so.


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## Duncan Bay (Nov 10, 2011)

No reason for this thread to turn political, for what you think is right or wrong, to argue your opinions with each other. A tragedy happened today folks. I pray for the victims and their families.


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## ironfish (Jul 31, 2010)

we live in a sick world...


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

OSUdaddy said:


> Guys, please do not make this political.
> 
> Start another thread about how gun control and politics caused this tragedy.
> 
> For the time being it is about the tragedy and showing respect and tribute to those grieving over this tragedy. Please keep it so.


Fully agree... 

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## jbm_11 (Sep 7, 2010)

How about tax money or even goverment money being used towards two stage doors, camers, bullet proof windows, and metal detectors. All the money spent on new computers, buildings and other things seem silly when it could of been used on such things to prevent this from happening. Lives are not replaceable, so why arent these measures in place already. I would happily donate money to my childs school if it meant I didnt have to go through this.....just my 2&#162;

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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

jbm_11 said:


> How about tax money or even goverment money being used towards two stage doors, camers, bullet proof windows, and metal detectors. All the money spent on new computers, buildings and other things seem silly when it could of been used on such things to prevent this from happening. Lives are not replaceable, so why arent these measures in place already. I would happily donate money to my childs school if it meant I didnt have to go through this.....just my 2¢
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Then they would just shoot them in the parking lots........What we need is a way to identify the nuts and keep them from doing their evil....


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## jbm_11 (Sep 7, 2010)

True, but I still think these things should be a standard in all schools. It would make me feel a little better. I know we cant stop everything, but we have a responsibility to do everything we can for our children to protect them.

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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

One thing that bothers me, many banks employ armed guards and metal detectors, but not our schools. Money can be replaced, our children's lives cannot. 

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## jbm_11 (Sep 7, 2010)

Bad Bub said:


> One thing that bothers me, many banks employ armed guards and metal detectors, but not our schools. Money can be replaced, our children's lives cannot.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I was thinking the same thing!

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## gerb (Apr 13, 2010)

i wish that politics and gun control werent brought into this...especially so soon. i dont really have a pov on gun control, but when you get sick weirdos like this, as mentioned before, gun, machete, whatever, this guy would have formulated a plan to do something this aweful. my heart goes out to all the children and families involved in this.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

I watched an interview this evening with the President of Virginia Tech (yes, he was the president in 2007). He basically said that we all say it's too early to bring politics into this sort of thing right after it happens. Then things cool down and we don't care enough to do anything. His opinion was that we would simply repeat the same cycle.

After 9/11 we asked ourselves, "What does Israel do?" Maybe we ought to look into how they keep their schools safe too. I'm not sure that would help, but it's a start. What then? If a nut is hell bent on killing kids, would he just pick a bus?

What kind of armed security guard would be sufficient to stand up to the firepower we saw today? He would probably be the first person killed. Most trained police officers would probably have fallen victim to this too. I work in a school, and I can assure you that only a very small percentage of the people who work in schools have the temperament to even have a slight chance of making a difference. Frankly, I'd be scared to put a gun in the hands of most of them.

Most classrooms have 20-30 kids in them. Even if you do have armed security, most schools are pretty big and a gunmen could kill the students before a guard ever got to the classroom door.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Bad Bub said:


> One thing that bothers me, many banks employ armed guards and metal detectors, but not our schools. Money can be replaced, our children's lives cannot.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


We had armed guards and metal detectors in my school when I was growing up... 

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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Whenever something like this happens its all over the television and radio for months. They give these sick minded people just what they want. They dont care if they live or die , they will get media attention and lots of it. They go out with a bang. This will keep happening over and over again until the media takes some responsibility in it and stops turning into the public circus these people crave. Im surprised they havent figured this out already. This guy and what he did will be the topic of discussion for months to come , there are other crazies out there that in some twisted way respect what he did and the media attention just eggs them on to go out and do it too. The best thing that can be done to stop this kind of thing is to remain quiet about it , dont talk about it on tv for months. Stop reporting it.


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

The worst has already happened. Now, I fear a "knee jerk reaction" as a solution to this problem.

Arming the teachers would take time, but you have to start somewhere. Then again, there would be teachers that wouldn't want to carry, so there's that problem.

Adding security, such as scanners, metal detecting wands with trainned individuals to use them, etc. would be a huge added cost and the long debate of who pays for it all.

I dread the following months of decisions, by the higher powers and the end decision. 

Bowhunter57


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

Smead said:


> It's easy to blame guns, I suppose no one would care if a machete were used in these types of violent acts? It's more difficult to address the real issue: people.


Smead,
You are correct, sir. It's the person, not the tool used in the crime.

The "tool" in the case of the school murders in China was a knife. I don't see knives getting banned any time soon, in China or any other part of the world. 22 children attacked!
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

Bowhunter57


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Bowhunter57 said:


> Arming the teachers would take time, but you have to start somewhere. Then again, there would be teachers that wouldn't want to carry, so there's that problem.
> 
> 
> Bowhunter57


not to mention this could open up a whole nother problem of teachers making dumb decisions and killing kids themselves... I knew of several teachers back home who "crossed the line"and became physically violent after losing their temper with problematic students. It would only be a matter of time before it was a teacher shooting a punk kid instead of just beating the tar out of him. I mean teachers snap too. Kids can put them through hell. Metal detectors and armed guards are one hell of a start. Someone else mentioned the two chamber entry system... Come to think of it my kids school is set up that way now. Metal detectors at the front door would definatly be a good addition though. 

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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Sadly, I think the 2nd ammendment is about to become re-interpreted by the court. 

I dont think arming teachers is a good idea , there are quite a few nutjob teachers. We are just living in a time when kids watch tv and movies about killing with a gun , and endlessly play videogames about nothing more than shooting people. What do they think is gonna happen ?


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

yonderfishin said:


> Sadly, I think the 2nd ammendment is about to become re-interpreted by the court.
> 
> I dont think arming teachers is a good idea , there are quite a few nutjob teachers. We are just living in a time when kids watch tv and movies about killing with a gun , and endlessly play videogames about nothing more than shooting people. What do they think is gonna happen ?


Ive played violent games my whole life. Unregulated by my parents...i never shot up or thought about it... but my parents did make it clear right and wrong


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

ranger373v said:


> Ive played violent games my whole life. Unregulated by my parents...i never shot up or thought about it... but my parents did make it clear right and wrong



Some kids dont get teaching on right and wrong. And still many others are just never right in the head anyway. Theres plenty of unstable children in any school and all the violence they see in videogames and tv can get them all jacked up and ready to try it for real. I dont think its just a coincidence that violence in real life continues to get worse at the same time our modern entertainment is getting more violent and realistic.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

JignPig Guide said:


> Ok. You quoted me. And you stated... "I don't agree." But what is it that I said that you don't agree with?
> Do you not agree that freedom isn't free? I'll say it again. If freedom isn't free, then these kids paid for the freedom of our Bang, Bang, Shoot'em-up Pow folks.


I agree 100%. There is no denying that this is the collateral damage of a gun happy culture. 
I support the 2nd ammendment with the knowledge that it will be abused and mis-used.

I've seen too many conversations about people going postal. First it's shock, sympathy, and disgust. Then it turns into politics as usual.

Guns always get the blame because they kill better than anything else and they're cheap. How else could you, in a detatched way kill people indiscriminately, without having to look them in the eye or get your hands bloody.
I don't think we should be debating guns.

Why do these individuals want to take out innocent people before they off themselves or go down in their perceived blaze of glory? They could swallow a handfull of pills.
Is it this 24/7 instant communication, U-tube era?

Some person is depressed. They're suicidal. They currently own some weapons or have the cash to get them. Do they want to be a footnote in history? They get a couple of weeks of in depth scrutiny, more if they survive the ordeal. Infamy is better than nothing? 
I would stop giving them celebrity. Stop making them out to be mysterious. Stop exposing their very existence. They are not making a statement. They are cowards. Cowards with guns. Nothing more. --Tim


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## spikeg79 (Jun 11, 2012)

Just something to think about. In this country any adult can legally go and get a gun @ any store that sells them with just a background check yet to drive a vehicle legally you have to pass a drivers ed course and a drivers test... IMO in should be harder to get a gun then get your driver's license. At least make it mandatory to take a gun safety course or something similar to Ohio's CCW course. 

Like other's already said if there's a will there's a way, you don't necessarily need a gun to kill multiple people. He could've used a machete, knife or made a homemade bomb. It's unfortunate almost nobody cares enough these days tell authorities about some people talking about killing people.

Another thing ALL Schools should have locked doors after the bell rings for 1st period or class. My high school had doors that were locked from outsiders but if you were inside you just pushed a bar to unlock/open them. Sure there was rare times when gangbangers got in because they had ones on the inside to open the doors for them. 

Prayers and thoughts to everybody affected by this tragedy


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

spikeg79 said:


> Just something to think about. In this country any adult can legally go and get a gun @ any store that sells them with just a background check yet to drive a vehicle legally you have to pass a drivers ed course and a drivers test... IMO in should be harder to get a gun then get your driver's license. At least make it mandatory to take a gun safety course or something similar to Ohio's CCW course.
> 
> Like other's already said if there's a will there's a way, you don't necessarily need a gun to kill multiple people. He could've used a machete, knife or made a homemade bomb. It's unfortunate almost nobody cares enough these days tell authorities about some people talking about killing people.
> 
> ...


I had a long class to gwt a uscg licence so i could run my ranger... that was harder than the ccw class!


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

jlami said:


> We had armed guards and metal detectors in my school when I was growing up...
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


We didn't. And even now, our school district has 6 buildings in operation and only the high school (10-12) has 1 sheriff's deputy that is NOT permitted to carry his sidearm while inside the school....
But anyway, the biggest problem with the younger people nowadays is they (generally speaking) are not taught accountability. They don't feel like the rules apply to them anymore. They tell their parents what to do, and have zero respect for anyone but themselves. Anyone who doubts that, only needs to spend about 30 minutes in your local Walmart. 

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## Berliner (Feb 23, 2011)

The problem is

We went from this










To this

http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/lol+*******+_253db069cf1491feaffb0033618f27b5.jpg

This is not something we can fix with elections and new laws.


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## jbm_11 (Sep 7, 2010)

One way in one way out....metal detectors and double doors with CCTV. It should be in every school, at least they could be safe inside. Start somewhere.....

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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

jbm_11 said:


> One way in one way out....metal detectors and double doors with CCTV. It should be in every school, at least they could be safe inside. Start somewhere.....
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


our bank has these... and it was robbed...even with the air lock style in out one door at a time doors... how i dont know but the guy got away... its the only pnc bank in the whole area with a no fire arms sticker on the door....


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## loves2fishinohio (Apr 14, 2011)

I just can't even imagine what the families are going through right now, or what the kids that were in the other classrooms are going through. So tragic...


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

While we can argue and think of solutions it will solve nor prevent anything. Trouble is when the human mind decides to do do evil things. There is no law or regulation or locked door that is going to stop them.

The tool used to commit these heinous crimes can be as varied as the individual. Bombs in Oklahoma City , vehicles used to plunge into crowds , nerve gas that was used in Tokyo the list goes on. 

How anyone could kill one baby let alone several is beyond my comprehension .
While massacres like this make some of us doubt our faith in human nature. The heroic attempts by the teachers and administrators to protect their charges help to restore it.

I just wish people and the media would quit calling acts like this a tragedy. A tragedy is a accident or cruel act of circumstance. These attacks on defenseless children are simply premeditated murder. Done by evil people with no regard for anything other that their day in the limelight. Perhaps someday we will find a way to inform the public without giving the infamy these sick %$#@& crave.


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## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

Opinions are like a-holes. Anyone who has brought up politics, laws, or opinions should be ashamed of themselves. You have directed the attention off of the true topic. CHILDREN DIED, TEACHERS DIED PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN. Please show some tact to the folks who have been directly affected by this tragedy. Btw Tact is: _A keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense in complicated situations._ If you lost your son or daughter do you think you would give a crap about red or blue, I think you would be too busy mourning the loss your child to give a two sh!ts about gun control, our president, the constitution, or any other "point" some have brought up. There is a time and a place. Yes, I carry my weapon at all times. However if a mother or father of a fallen child were in front of me I would not make a discussion of it. I have my opinion, you're free to have yours, but if you have something else to say other than God Bless, R.I.P, or My Condolences, then you are too ignorant to grasp the situation at hand. If you want attention, or a soap box to stand on at these babies expenses, you are not fit to live in a functioning society. I hope and pray if I ever go through this I do not have to look on a public forum and see people letting politics over shaddow my child passing on. If a parent who lost their child read some of your comments they would be ashamed to share the same air as you. Yet, most of you are the same people who wonder why we cannot have a political conversation on OGF. WTF? Some people are dense. 
LOVE ONE ANOTHER.- George Harrison


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Right and wrong have been removed from our schools , along with morality. Because as kids are taught these days there are no absolutes. They are encouraged to develop their own sense of morality and values based on their feelings , with no real guidelines as to what that might be. The "golden rule" ? Whats that ? Not trying to bring up the unwelcome topic of religion , but there was a time when the 10 commandments were posted on the walls in schools , we said a prayer along with the pledge of allegiance before class , and there was a price to pay for not following the rules. Right and wrong were laid out and clearly defined in those days. Its not a religious thing , its a sense of identity and knowing boundaries , teaches humility. Whether you were a fan of the things I mentioned or not is not relative to the discussion , but stuff like this shooting almost never happened then.

Not saying this is the problem mind you , but thats some coincidence huh ? Just food for thought.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

samfishdyt said:


> Opinions are like a-holes. Anyone who has brought up politics, laws, or opinions should be ashamed of themselves. You have directed the attention off of the true topic. CHILDREN DIED, TEACHERS DIED PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN. Please show some tact to the folks who have been directly affected by this tragedy. Btw Tact is: _A keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense in complicated situations._ If you lost your son or daughter do you think you would give a crap about red or blue, I think you would be too busy mourning the loss your child to give a two sh!ts about gun control, our president, the constitution, or any other "point" some have brought up. There is a time and a place. Yes, I carry my weapon at all times. However if a mother or father of a fallen child were in front of me I would not make a discussion of it. I have my opinion, you're free to have yours, but if you have something else to say other than God Bless, R.I.P, or My Condolences, then you are too ignorant to grasp the situation at hand. If you want attention, or a soap box to stand on at these babies expenses, you are not fit to live in a functioning society. I hope and pray if I ever go through this I do not have to look on a public forum and see people letting politics over shaddow my child passing on. If a parent who lost their child read some of your comments they would be ashamed to share the same air as you. Yet, most of you are the same people who wonder why we cannot have a political conversation on OGF. WTF? Some people are dense.
> LOVE ONE ANOTHER.- George Harrison


it clearly is sad...but thats life in these times... you dont think that some of those parents are curseing guns and the amount of restrictions


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## jbm_11 (Sep 7, 2010)

I have an 8 year old in school now and if something like this happend I would feel responsible because I know this sort of thing is possible yet choose not to take a stand and put some sort of saftey measures in place to prevent or deter this thing from happening. I can not even start to think what some of those parents are going through. We as a adults can not just keep waiting, because all the crazy people out there are just getting more and more confident in their actions and are not going to wait. How many schools are out there where you can just walk right in. I know we cant prevent everything but that doesnt mean we dont do anything. Schools have fire exstigushing systems in place to protect them from fire....times have changed and so should the security systems. They need to mandate that all schools have systems in place to prevent someone just walking into schools and doing what they want. We have to learn from the flaws in schools or what is to say this just keeps happening. I havent stopped thinking about those kids, they did not deserve this. I will pray for them and their families. 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

samfishdyt said:


> Opinions are like a-holes. Anyone who has brought up politics, laws, or opinions should be ashamed of themselves. You have directed the attention off of the true topic. CHILDREN DIED, TEACHERS DIED PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN. Please show some tact to the folks who have been directly affected by this tragedy. Btw Tact is: _A keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense in complicated situations._ If you lost your son or daughter do you think you would give a crap about red or blue, I think you would be too busy mourning the loss your child to give a two sh!ts about gun control, our president, the constitution, or any other "point" some have brought up. There is a time and a place. Yes, I carry my weapon at all times. However if a mother or father of a fallen child were in front of me I would not make a discussion of it. I have my opinion, you're free to have yours, but if you have something else to say other than God Bless, R.I.P, or My Condolences, then you are too ignorant to grasp the situation at hand. If you want attention, or a soap box to stand on at these babies expenses, you are not fit to live in a functioning society. I hope and pray if I ever go through this I do not have to look on a public forum and see people letting politics over shaddow my child passing on. If a parent who lost their child read some of your comments they would be ashamed to share the same air as you. Yet, most of you are the same people who wonder why we cannot have a political conversation on OGF. WTF? Some people are dense.
> &#8220;LOVE ONE ANOTHER.&#8221;- George Harrison




This a discussion not a obituary. In a discussion , people express their views and opinions on what they think is relevant. Percieved causes , and what could be done to prevent things like this are relevant. And if you havent noticed , the problem isnt this specific case , the problem is that these things are happening in the first place and seem to be happening more often. Thats a worthwhile discussion in my book. I dont see what you are so po'd about. Id say it honors those who have lost , when those of us who have families and children can discuss it and try to understand. Because we have lost as well. Somehow along the line we have lost a safe place to raise our kids. We have lost faith in our fellow man and the laws that are supposed to keep us safe. We havent lost as much as these people have but we have all lost a lot.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

samfishdyt said:


> Opinions are like a-holes. Anyone who has brought up politics, laws, or opinions should be ashamed of themselves. You have directed the attention off of the true topic. CHILDREN DIED, TEACHERS DIED PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN. Please show some tact to the folks who have been directly affected by this tragedy. Btw Tact is: _A keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense in complicated situations._ If you lost your son or daughter do you think you would give a crap about red or blue, I think you would be too busy mourning the loss your child to give a two sh!ts about gun control, our president, the constitution, or any other "point" some have brought up. There is a time and a place. Yes, I carry my weapon at all times. However if a mother or father of a fallen child were in front of me I would not make a discussion of it. I have my opinion, you're free to have yours, but if you have something else to say other than God Bless, R.I.P, or My Condolences, then you are too ignorant to grasp the situation at hand. If you want attention, or a soap box to stand on at these babies expenses, you are not fit to live in a functioning society. I hope and pray if I ever go through this I do not have to look on a public forum and see people letting politics over shaddow my child passing on. If a parent who lost their child read some of your comments they would be ashamed to share the same air as you. Yet, most of you are the same people who wonder why we cannot have a political conversation on OGF. WTF? Some people are dense.
> &#8220;LOVE ONE ANOTHER.&#8221;- George Harrison


You have made a very valiant point, unfortunately you are the put calling the kettle black... Practice what you preach

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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

papaperch said:


> While we can argue and think of solutions it will solve nor prevent anything. Trouble is when the human mind decides to do do evil things. There is no law or regulation or locked door that is going to stop them.
> 
> The tool used to commit these heinous crimes can be as varied as the individual. Bombs in Oklahoma City , vehicles used to plunge into crowds , nerve gas that was used in Tokyo the list goes on.
> 
> ...



First of all...MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO EVERYONE WHO WAS TOUCHED BY THIS MURDERER...I hope that they can someday find peace for their loss.

Papaperch, I couldn't agree more...this and what I call a lack of a "Moral Code" caused by lack of parenting and schools/society teaching them right and wrong, values, etc. 
This would help many kids but people like this murderer will always exist and now precautions will have to be taken because of them and their growing frequency of this type of publicity.

I heard on a CNN news report discussing gun legislation...that last year alone their were 2 MILLION+ cases....where GUNS were used IN SELF DEFENSE with no charges filed. That's 2 million cases where robberies, rapes, break-ins, etc were stopped by a ARMED LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.
MAYBE THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT TO KEEP OUR CHILDREN SAFE!


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## buckzye11 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't know what to think about this... i know it made me close to physically sick when i heard the details. HOW could someone do this?... the only thing that i could come up with is the killer was obviously sick in the head.
In a previous thread on OGF about suicide, i stated that i didn't understand why someone would take their own lives as my cousin had. still don't understand... but if people are thinking about doing somthing this terrible, by all means, i wish they would pull the trigger right under their chin FIRST.
Now, sick in the head people who want a way out, look to all these examples of mass murder, and the way the killers are "glorified" by the media. I don't know any of the victims names, but i know Adam Lanza... and will hear his name at least 1000 times this week.
They think this is how it happens... "take as many as you can with you" attitude. Guns... not the problem. Crazy people with a dying wish for fame and recognition... problem. It's a sick way of martyrdom. Fame. 
IMO banning TV would take care of this problem more then banning guns would.
In any case, why or how this happened, it's a sad day. My condolences to the familes who are grieving.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

samfishdyt said:


> Opinions are like a-holes. Anyone who has brought up politics, laws, or opinions should be ashamed of themselves. You have directed the attention off of the true topic. CHILDREN DIED, TEACHERS DIED PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN. Please show some tact to the folks who have been directly affected by this tragedy. Btw Tact is: _A keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense in complicated situations._ If you lost your son or daughter do you think you would give a crap about red or blue, I think you would be too busy mourning the loss your child to give a two sh!ts about gun control, our president, the constitution, or any other "point" some have brought up. There is a time and a place. Yes, I carry my weapon at all times. However if a mother or father of a fallen child were in front of me I would not make a discussion of it. I have my opinion, you're free to have yours, but if you have something else to say other than God Bless, R.I.P, or My Condolences, then you are too ignorant to grasp the situation at hand. If you want attention, or a soap box to stand on at these babies expenses, you are not fit to live in a functioning society. I hope and pray if I ever go through this I do not have to look on a public forum and see people letting politics over shaddow my child passing on. If a parent who lost their child read some of your comments they would be ashamed to share the same air as you. Yet, most of you are the same people who wonder why we cannot have a political conversation on OGF. WTF? Some people are dense.
> &#8220;LOVE ONE ANOTHER.&#8221;- George Harrison


very sad tragedy what happened..thoughts and prayers go out to the families....that said...samfishdyt, ..people are free to express there opinion and thoughts ..none of them are being disrespectful and we all feel horribly sorry for these parents and families..like you said yourself...love one another..all these guys on OGF are compassionate and helpful individuals..jlami has experienced that first hand when his boat was swamped... personally, i think OGF is a bunch of good guys willing to help out and offer help and prayers when needed...


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

My $.02 on the topic. There's no excuse for someone to go and shoot up a venue, let alone a school full of young children. It doesn't matter if it's a mall or a theater or a sporting event etc. As more details emerge from this tragedy it appears this troubled man used hand guns which he stole from his mother. They were all legally purchased but when he killed her, he took her weapons and inflicted this outrageous plan that ended so many young lives. 

Yet, hours before this incident, a man in China stabbed 22 children outside their school and a few adults too. Legislation won't fix it, anything can be a weapon in the hands of someone who wishes to use an object as such. 

The kid in Oregon last week also stole the rifle he used to rain terror on those innocent people as well. I didn't hear though where it was stolen from. 

Israel has armed teachers... I don't think every teacher should be armed but since police can't be in every school maybe having some armed teachers or administrators within each school may be a valid solution. Just like you don't know what pilot is armed when you board a plane to go from point A to point B or if there may be an air marshal on an aircraft with you, the same could hold true in a school. 

These cowards choose soft targets because they know they're not going to encounter any resistance initially. Make them think twice about targeting what should be a safe place for our children.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Sharp Charge said:


> .
> 
> These cowards choose soft targets because they know they're not going to encounter any resistance initially. Make them think twice about targeting what should be a safe place for our children.


I doubt of choosing a "soft" target is part of their plan. They usually want to die anyhow. The killer in Ct. could have just as easily sat in the parking lot or across the street and got the kids with a rilfle.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Sharp Charge said:


> Israel has armed teachers... I don't think every teacher should be armed but since police can't be in every school maybe having some armed teachers or administrators within each school may be a valid solution.


I'm not arguing with you because I also suggested we look into what Israel does, but sometimes it's difficult to follow another country's model. A stark difference between us and Israel is that most of the them have some military training. In my school their are only about a half dozen or so of us who are veterans, and most of them are maintenance people. I know of one woman in our school who has a ccw. She can barely turn on her computer without hurting herself--frightening to think of her pulling out a gun.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

i had a big long post about how i feel about some crazy sob doing this. but instead i just want to try and say how sorry i am for everybody that lost someone. but i just cant really find the words.

when a crazy person decides there going to do something like this they will find a way. mcveigh didnt fire a shot. i just dont know anyway to stop things like this from happening. even if you put armed guards at all schools they can just take them out first.
sherman


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## chrism1367 (Aug 11, 2012)

jbm_11 said:


> How about tax money or even goverment money being used towards two stage doors, camers, bullet proof windows, and metal detectors. All the money spent on new computers, buildings and other things seem silly when it could of been used on such things to prevent this from happening. Lives are not replaceable, so why arent these measures in place already. I would happily donate money to my childs school if it meant I didnt have to go through this.....just my 2&#162;
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Totally agree. I don't believe in giving guns to the teachers/employees as I've heard from others opinions elswhere. Who's to say that one disgruntled teacher doesnt snap and grabs a gun and goes postal. Or kids finding someway to get ahold of that gun. I've been in banks and stores that have a lot more security than schools I've ever seen. Yet schools have a lot more to lose

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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Now that this has turned into a discussion about who should be armed and who shouldn't I will say that I feel everyone with the right to carry should have the choice to carry anywhere they go... There should be no weapons free zones. If you have the right to carry it shouldn't matter where you are. Firearms need to be as acceptable in our society as cell phones are. To see someone with a gun on their hip should not raise alarm. We teach our children to drive and how to spend money, we should teach them to handle and carry the same way... Take the wow factor out of it and we would not be having this discussion.

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## chrism1367 (Aug 11, 2012)

jlami said:


> Now that this has turned into a discussion about who should be armed and who shouldn't I will say that I feel everyone with the right to carry should have the choice to carry anywhere they go... There should be no weapons free zones. If you have the right to carry it shouldn't matter where you are. Firearms need to be as acceptable in our society as cell phones are. To see someone with a gun on their hip should not raise alarm. We teach our children to drive and how to spend money, we should teach them to handle and carry the same way... Take the wow factor out of it and we would not be having this discussion.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


That's just ignorant. 

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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

jlami said:


> Now that this has turned into a discussion about who should be armed and who shouldn't I will say that I feel everyone with the right to carry should have the choice to carry anywhere they go... There should be no weapons free zones. If you have the right to carry it shouldn't matter where you are. Firearms need to be as acceptable in our society as cell phones are. To see someone with a gun on their hip should not raise alarm. We teach our *children to drive and how to spend money, we should teach them to handle and carry the same way*... Take the wow factor out of it and we would not be having this discussion.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I don't think having children packing is a good idea.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

streamstalker said:


> I'm not arguing with you because I also suggested we look into what Israel does, but sometimes it's difficult to follow another country's model. A stark difference between us and Israel is that most of the them have some military training. In my school their are only about a half dozen or so of us who are veterans, and most of them are maintenance people. I know of one woman in our school who has a ccw. She can barely turn on her computer without hurting herself--frightening to think of her pulling out a gun.


There would absolutely have to be a training requirement and it would be voluntary similar to the Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program. Those are your armed pilots.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

chrism1367 said:


> That's just ignorant.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


how so? since i was 4 i was taught how to use and the saftey of a gun...my parents even tested me one time, left a loaded .357 mag on the table, as they sat in the living room (10 feet away) and as they tell me (cause i dont remember) i went up and told my dad to move it because my younger brother might be able to get to it... its still not gonna stop everyone. mostly the nut jobs but i see where the guy was coming from


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Several people have pointed out that we basically just IGNORE the mentally ill among us, vote to cut mental health funding 1st thing in "lean' times and just HOPE they`ll "go away". THEY SURE ARE: into packed theaters, political gatherings, workplaces, churches, schools, homes...a FRIGHTENING statistic is that about 1 person in 40 has a lower than "normal" sense of sympathy or "empathy"- the ability to recognise or relate to the pain or sorrow of others. 1 IN 90 HAS VERY LITTLE TO NONE...from these come the thankfully few who are largely the vast majority of your "shooters" who commit mass murder...for whatever reason, they just do not feel much (or ANY) "remorse'/ guilt for commiting heinous crimes. But identifying them BEFOREHAND is an invasion of privacy. And statistically, they will likely live a normal lifespan and never commit a truelly monsterous act. Go figure...


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

chrism1367 said:


> Totally agree. I don't believe in giving guns to the teachers/employees as I've heard from others opinions elswhere. Who's to say that one disgruntled teacher doesnt snap and grabs a gun and goes postal. Or kids finding someway to get ahold of that gun. I've been in banks and stores that have a lot more security than schools I've ever seen. Yet schools have a lot more to lose
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


if they snap..they are just going to bring it to school anyways...


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> I don't think having children packing is a good idea.


Not saying I want my 10 year old to run around with a pistol, that is absurd! I am saying that if firearms were not as taboo in our culture as many people make them it would not be a question of whether or not our teachers should have arms or whether or not we should have armed security in our schools, malls or theatres... They would already be there and nobody would know the difference. Same reason muggings, car jackings, and other crimes have had a significant decline since the inception of ccw. Look at the places these things take place, always a "weapon free zone." I've never heard of a mass murderer going on a spree at a county fair. Why? Because there is no telling who is packing and the chances of them accomplishing something detrimental are slim to none. 

Think about it, if we had the opportunity to give speeding tickets to people as civilians no one would ever speed. You would never know when the guy you just blew past on 71 would tack 2 points on your license.(Obviously just for the sake of argument comparison.)

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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

chrism1367 said:


> That's just ignorant.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I originally wasn't even going to respond to you, but I am perplexed. How, what, where, or why is my statement in any way ignorant?

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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Sharp Charge said:


> There would absolutely have to be a training requirement and it would be voluntary similar to the Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program. Those are your armed pilots.


There aren't many Sully Sullingers teaching math and English. And a pilot is always in the right place at the right time. An armed teacher is likely to be hundreds of feet away and responsible for dealing with the security of her own students. Virtually all of the recent mass killings have involved young madmen clad in body armor and wielding mulitple semi-automatic weapons with high-capacity magazines spraying a hail of bullets. I doubt they would would have got past the TSA. The chance of a teacher doing anything but getting themselves killed or accidentally shooting anyone else is virtually nil.



> Originally Posted by *jlami*: Firearms need to be as acceptable in our society as cell phones are.


I imagine the killer's dead mother, who owned the guns used, would have supported your opinion.


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## chrism1367 (Aug 11, 2012)

It's anybody's right to have a no weapons policy on their property wether its private or commercial. If whoever doesn't like it they can choose not to enter. To have people walking around with guns in their holster like the wild west is ridiculous. 

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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

streamstalker said:


> There aren't many Sully Sullingers teaching math and English. And a pilot is always in the right place at the right time. An armed teacher is likely to be hundreds of feet away and responsible for dealing with the security of her own students. Virtually all of the recent mass killings have involved young madmen clad in body armor and wielding mulitple semi-automatic weapons with high-capacity magazines spraying a hail of bullets. I doubt they would would have got past the TSA. The chance of a teacher doing anything but getting themselves killed or accidentally shooting anyone else is virtually nil.
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine the killer's dead mother, who owned the guns used, would have supported your opinion.



I disagree, I work at a major airport. There are many, many ways to get things past TSA. Also, everyone initially claims these cowards were armored up, when it turns out they only had a TAC vest on, no armor. We'll have to wait on the final report on this one. Also, I believe CT, in addition to their AWB has a 10rd magazine limit too, I'll have to look further though. 

What it really comes to is money. People refuse to fund schools and public safety and on the other side some of these entities squander the money they do receive. Some teachers and public safety officers don't make enough while the bobble heads at the top are banking tons of money. Make cuts here and apply the savings to better security and armed private security officers if the thought of armed teachers seems too taboo. 

My high school had 3 off duty police officers on campus every day for the 4 years I went there as did the other 3 public high schools in the city. This was between 1994 and 1998 and it was in a Cleveland suburb. Police can't be everywhere and with the cutbacks that have been sweeping the nation I'm sure some of these resources have been removed from the schools too.


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

jlami said:


> Not saying I want my 10 year old to run around with a pistol, that is absurd! I am saying that if firearms were not as taboo in our culture as many people make them it would not be a question of whether or not our teachers should have arms or whether or not we should have armed security in our schools, malls or theatres... They would already be there and nobody would know the difference. Same reason muggings, car jackings, and other crimes have had a significant decline since the inception of ccw. Look at the places these things take place, always a "weapon free zone." I've never heard of a mass murderer going on a spree at a county fair. Why? Because there is no telling who is packing and the chances of them accomplishing something detrimental are slim to none.
> 
> Think about it, if we had the opportunity to give speeding tickets to people as civilians no one would ever speed. You would never know when the guy you just blew past on 71 would tack 2 points on your license.(Obviously just for the sake of argument comparison.)
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Don't you think this is almost having a wild west mentality? I don't have an answer. Most people on here do not want any kind of gun control what so ever. Are people in this country that much more violent than the rest of the civilized world? Look at the murder rate statistics of the U.S. compared to the rest of the civilized world. Are the murder rates in other civilized counties a small fraction of what they are here because of gun laws or are we not as civilized here as those other countries?


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## chrism1367 (Aug 11, 2012)

jlami said:


> I originally wasn't even going to respond to you, but I am perplexed. How, what, where, or why is my statement in any way ignorant?
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I apologize I should have just made my point without mentioning the ignorant thing. 

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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Not a wild west mentality at all, we would still have consequences and repercussions for our actions. However if you have the right to carry a firearm it should not be dictated where you can and can not carry that firearm. The purpose of exercising your right to carry is to have the ability to protect yourselves and others against someone or something trying to inflict harm upon you. Having "no carry zones" give nut jobs a safe haven to perform their heinous actions causing our entire nation grief. The events that took place recently are prefect examples... Again I ask why do these things happen in places where weapons are prohibited? Because no one has the ability to stop them from happening.

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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

chrism1367 said:


> I apologize I should have just made my point without mentioning the ignorant thing.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


No apology needed, if I am being ignorant I deserve to be made aware of my ignorance. What was your point though?

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## chrism1367 (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm saying if someone walks into a bank or a church or anywhere with a gun on there hip people shouldn't feel a little tense? I just believe in preventing it in the first place such as metal detectors, not being able to enter a school without any kind of clearance, bulletproof glass/doors, etc. of course being able to recognize these nutjobs to begin with. That is my opinion. 

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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

jlami said:


> Not a wild west mentality at all, we would still have consequences and repercussions for our actions. However if you have the right to carry a firearm it should not be dictated where you can and can not carry that firearm. The purpose of exercising your right to carry is to have the ability to protect yourselves and others against someone or something trying to inflict harm upon you. Having "no carry zones" give nut jobs a safe haven to perform their heinous actions causing our entire nation grief. The events that took place recently are prefect examples... Again I ask why do these things happen in places where weapons are prohibited? Because no one has the ability to stop them from happening.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


What about that nutjob that went off on that army base a couple years ago?


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

The way things are now we should absolutely be more than a little uncomfortable if some one goes into one of those places with a gun on their hip. They are breaking the law and obviously have ill intentions... However if it were not illegal and was a normal occurence than why would we be? That is the point, firearms are still too taboo for our own good.

The nut job on the military base wa s not a civilian... He was a military psychologist if I remember correctly. Dealing with armed forces issues is a whole different situation. 


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

chrism1367 said:


> I'm saying if someone walks into a bank or a church or anywhere with a gun on there hip people shouldn't feel a little tense? I just believe in preventing it in the first place such as metal detectors, not being able to enter a school without any kind of clearance, bulletproof glass/doors, etc. of course being able to recognize these nutjobs to begin with. That is my opinion.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


If everyone else had a gun too it wouldnt be so uncomfortable.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Actually the only way to stop this would be to kill him. Seems every body is reall examining this to close. The man had mental history and took pills for it. He either forgot or just snapped.Pretty sure when that happened even his mother didn't know or she may have been alive. But I seriously doubt any thing was planned that could have stopped it. Ans its a sure thing security or police even in the building would have been too late. Its a shame but our society is going to have to admit, there is times today people need killed. This is one. Just wish teachers and that were allowed to carry. Not in their desks but on their side where its not accessible to others. Sure some may have died. But the odds are good it would be a lot less. And true a student could have been shot by a teacher by accident and to day some sue happy American would probably do it. But I would be thankful even if it was mine that some one stopped him and saved lives. When were in war casualties are expected. And people we are at war in our own country!


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

chrism1367 said:


> I'm saying if someone walks into a bank or a church or anywhere with a gun on there hip people shouldn't feel a little tense? I just believe in preventing it in the first place such as metal detectors, not being able to enter a school without any kind of clearance, bulletproof glass/doors, etc. of course being able to recognize these nutjobs to begin with. That is my opinion.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


If a guy walked in with a gun in his hand worry... if he has it xoncealed...how do you know you havent stood in a bank line nwxt to a fun...or sat next to one at church?


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Wow this phone sucks at typing


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

If a guns concealed means you dont know. Unless your one of those that wears clothes to "print" and they do for attention. I can remember 30 years ago I had a gun in my pocket every where I went, and in bar in this small town of salem there was at least 5-6 others. But every body went out and drank. Funny never had a shooting like all these scared willys seem to think. I bet most people every day associate with gun bearers. Dont hurt if their law biding and the ones who dont carry any way.Making guns illegal in places only make it easier for the criminals to get away with it.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Snakecharmer said:


> I doubt of choosing a "soft" target is part of their plan. They usually want to die anyhow. The killer in Ct. could have just as easily sat in the parking lot or across the street and got the kids with a rilfle.


Your right that they intend to die, but they obviously don't plan to be the first to die. Or they'd pull the trigger before they ever left their house.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

It's not illegal to walk into a bank with a gun unless they have it posted. It's not an off limits area in Ohio. 

Secondly, in the Ft Hood shooting, he broke laws there too by having a loaded personal gun on base. It was not an armory gun. The only armed personnel on base with ammo are the security personnel.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Sharp Charge said:


> It's not illegal to walk into a bank with a gun unless they have it posted. It's not an off limits area in Ohio.
> 
> Secondly, in the Ft Hood shooting, he broke laws there too by having a loaded personal gun on base. It was not an armory gun. The only armed personnel on base with ammo are the security personnel.


I wanna know why all 5 pnc banks i go to have no sticker... and the one with the air lock style doors...that some how got robbed... has one...i thought it had to be a company wide decision...not just branch managers pickin n choosin


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

viper1 said:


> Actually the only way to stop this would be to kill him. Its a shame but our society is going to have to admit, there is times today people need killed. This is one.


Let me see if I am understanding you correctly... because this person had a mental illness, mentally unstable, on medication etc....we should just execute him? Surely , you can't be serious??? How are we to judge him or any other person with mental illness? (i'm talking before any crime is commited).


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

i dont really know if anything would stop things like this from happening. one thing that might help is if they would do all schools like they have goverment buildings. place a guard at the door with a metal detector. of course this wouldnt stop somebody thats determined to enter. they could just shoot the guard. but i believe it would be a good deterrent.

after all our children are the most important things on this planet. so why not atleast try to protect them as much as our court houses. i think even these nuts would think twice before entering a school with a trained guard at the door with a metal detector. he might have still went some other place and shot a bunch of people but maby it wouldnt have been little kids.

when something like this happens so many people start with gun controll. but thats not the answer. you could outlaw every gun in this country and people like him is going to find a way to do there evil. with elegal guns or bombs or even knives. there is just no way to really stop them from killing somebody. but we can do more to protect our schools. i dont think having untrained teachers carring guns is the best answer, but i do believe having trained guards at the door with metal detectors would be a big help.

some people will say it will cost to much to put guards and metal detectors in every school. but just how much is just one small childs life worth?? if they can do it for our judges and lawyers then why not our kids??
sherman


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## jbm_11 (Sep 7, 2010)

Has any one ever seen the banks that have the metal roll up style barriers that drop if someone pushes the alarm button. Why can we have that along with two doors system. Go in the first, there you have to show id, go through the scanner, talk with a person and let them know why you are there. In the mean time the second door is locked. Why do we need to let people in. If ur there to get ur kid, just sit tight...we will bring him/her to you. I just think there are obvious precations that needs to be in place that arent. 

The army base thing is similar but we are talking about our young children who we as adults need to protect or be protected when they are not with us. Lets solve this problem first and the move on to other issues.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

boatnut said:


> Let me see if I am understanding you correctly... because this person had a mental illness, mentally unstable, on medication etc....we should just execute him? Surely , you can't be serious??? How are we to judge him or any other person with mental illness? (i'm talking before any crime is commited).


To put this into perspective, women and doctors are killing babies, before they are born, before even knowing if that child would grow up "perfect" or "heinous." So why not? Of course I'm being antagonistic with this statement, but our society has gone a little left of wacky in the past 50 years. Pot smokers spend time in prison while mental nutcases that NEED medication are kicked back into society (no more "nut houses"), and nobody to monitor them taking their meds - meds that keep their heads in a constant state of fuzzy calm - an HIPAA "rights" that don't allow people to know about this stuff because it is their personal health and nobody's business....until we have crap like this happen. Then, everyone is like, "Oh, my we never knew he/she was like this."
[/COLOR] 
This is NOT a gun issue, this is a person & society issue. And no, I don't condone pot smoking. And the term "nut houses" and "nut cases" are used since these mad men keep being referred to as "nut jobs." End of disclaimers.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

At my kid's school, you can't go in. You wait in the office, they call your child, and your kid comes in to the office through a back door - not the "main doors" which are locked after school start until time to leave.



jbm_11 said:


> Has any one ever seen the banks that have the metal roll up style barriers that drop if someone pushes the alarm button. Why can we have that along with two doors system. Go in the first, there you have to show id, go through the scanner, talk with a person and let them know why you are there. In the mean time the second door is locked. Why do we need to let people in. If ur there to get ur kid, just sit tight...we will bring him/her to you. I just think there are obvious precations that needs to be in place that arent.
> 
> The army base thing is similar but we are talking about our young children who we as adults need to protect or be protected when they are not with us. Lets solve this problem first and the move on to other issues.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## Burks (Jun 22, 2011)

Having teachers with guns is great until they shoot a student on accident thinking they had a gun, the gun is stolen and used against other teachers/students, or the teacher is a nut job that goes off the handle and kills students.

Then we're back to "Teachers shouldn't have been allowed to have guns in schools!" argument. 

You're never going to stop every single mass murder-suicide. Take guns away from everyone? See what happened in China? Guns aren't needed.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Burks said:


> Having teachers with guns is great until they shoot a student on accident thinking they had a gun, the gun is stolen and used against other teachers/students, or the teacher is a nut job that goes off the handle and kills students.
> 
> Then we're back to "Teachers shouldn't have been allowed to have guns in schools!" argument.
> 
> You're never going to stop every single mass murder-suicide. Take guns away from everyone? See what happened in China? Guns aren't needed.


Exactly. It's all so circular. Every human event cannot be stopped.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

sbreech said:


> At my kid's school, you can't go in. You wait in the office, they call your child, and your kid comes in to the office through a back door - not the "main doors" which are locked after school start until time to leave.
> 
> This is NOT a gun issue, this is a person & society issue.


Accounts are that the maniac forced his way past a newly installed security system. 

Some in this thread blame media coverage for the event. Others, myself included, advocate stricter measures in dealing with the mentally ill.

Why is it okay to consider "infringements" to the First and Fifth Ammendments, but not the Second?


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

streamstalker said:


> Why is it okay to consider "infringements" to the First and Fifth Ammendments, but not the Second?


It isn't. #1 has been interpreted all to hell and back, kicked around the courts, pushed one way or the other, the 5th is still pretty much intact, with the exception of some pushes by both sides to get the terrorists (Gitmo processes, etc). The Second is pretty much straight forward. Anybody that can read should be able to figure out how simple it is - even third graders - nothing to interpret. So our government doesn't seem to "infringe" on the Constitution and Bill of Rights - they simply place supreme court justices of their persuasion to interpret it differently.


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## lotaluck (Dec 17, 2009)

The press is doing an outstanding job here with all the talk of semi auto weapons being used in this terrible crime. Just this morning my own wife said semi autos need to be banned. Heartbreaking!! 
I tried to get her to take 30 seconds to read the 2nd amendment and response was she don't care what it says they need to be banned. I have now come to the realization that I am very much the minority and fear what we face in the near future. 
I keep asking myself just what if that teacher would have been armed. Could possibly 1 life have been saved?


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

The courts interpreted back in the 70s that you couldn't restrict the liberty of the mentally ill if you couldn't prove they were "dangerous." I'm guessing that was based on the 5th Ammendment.

I was being a bit tounge-in-cheek. We do have all sorts of practical infringements on the Second Ammendment. The argument occurs at where we can agree to draw the line. I'm sure there will be a lot of debate over renewing the AWB which expired in 2004. The effect of which will probably be a lot of hot air and wasted time and money while people buy several million more of them in anticipation of the ban.



> I keep asking myself just what if that teacher would have been armed. Could possibly 1 life have been saved?


No, because the murderer was wielding an assault weapon.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

streamstalker said:


> I was being a bit tounge-in-cheek. We do have all sorts of practical infringements on the Second Ammendment. The argument occurs at where we can agree to draw the line. I'm sure there will be a lot of debate over renewing the AWB which expired in 2004. The effect of which will probably be a lot of hot air and wasted time and money while people by several million more of them in anticipation of the ban.


So true...


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

ranger373v said:


> I wanna know why all 5 pnc banks i go to have no sticker... and the one with the air lock style doors...that some how got robbed... has one...i thought it had to be a company wide decision...not just branch managers pickin n choosin


No it can be individual store/bank managers decision. There's nothing in the ORC that says it has to be a company wide policy. Although it would make sense to avoid confusion as you go to different locations of the same company.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

streamstalker said:


> No, because the murderer was wielding an assault weapon.


No, an assault weapon is capable of select fire, burst or auto. If he did use the AR15 like reports are now changing to, then it was just a semi automatic rifle.


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...009.html?&utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

_"...its easy to talk about guns. But its time to talk about mental illness."_

Good article.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Net said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...009.html?&utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
> 
> _"...its easy to talk about guns. But its time to talk about mental illness."_
> 
> Good article.


Thanks for sharing. That was a very powerful, heartfelt article. There is still that ugly question sitting in the corner that nobody wants to address : What do we do with somebody that has such an exhibited high potential for violence and is "unfixable?" Lock up for life? Take away their freedom? I know this is a human - but a very dangerous one. What do we do with a dog that turns vicious? Nobody, and I mean NOBODY wants to make those calls. But one thing I do know, no sane person would ever cause harm to so many innocent lives...whether it is killing kindergarten students at age 20 or smashing puppies heads for fun when 10. 
[/COLOR] 
What's amazing is if this most recent maniac had simply killed himself, the community would have been blaming them selves, saying they hadn't reached out to his needs, hadn't taken the time to notice, blah blah blah. There wouldn't be the talk of "gun control." He chose poorly.


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## Mhill915 (Sep 15, 2012)

News article today states that he killed himself as soon as first responders arrived. If someone was armed would it have ended sooner?


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

Net said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...009.html?&utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
> 
> _"...its easy to talk about guns. But its time to talk about mental illness."_
> 
> Good article.


Ditto...!

In the last 20 plus years there has been at least three large mental facilities that have been closed in the Cincinnati area alone. If that trend holds true nation wide, is it any wonder why these type of events keep happening?
They use to be called "insane asylums". Though that's not PC in today's standards, maybe they were on to something.


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## leeabu (Apr 10, 2004)

I am not anti gun and I have owned guns in the past (pre grandkids) and I recently have been recently considering a home defense shotgun which so far have failed to purchase. However I personally cannot see the logic in the solution to gun violence being to arm more people. No offense to anybody, this is just my opinion. If the teachers have guns, what hapens when one of them flips out. My prayers to the familys' of the victims of this horrific act!!


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

My question.....Why to most of these mass murderers end up being male caucasians?


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Net said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...009.html?&utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
> 
> _"...it&#8217;s easy to talk about guns. But it&#8217;s time to talk about mental illness."_
> 
> Good article.


yup, read same one here- http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html?spref=fb

makes ya wonder....what does one do with a child like that? According to Viper, we'd just take him out back and shoot him?


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Snakecharmer said:


> My question.....Why to most of these mass murderers end up being male caucasians?


I can answer for the caucasian part - Aren't caucasians the majority? That would only make sense. Even if it isn't quite proportional, it isn't nearly as skewed as the actual statistics that make up the inmate population of our penal system.
[/COLOR] 
As far as male vs female, I don't have a clue.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

streamstalker said:


> No, because the murderer was wielding an assault weapon.


I disagree, you have noway of knowing who could of stopped this if they were armed. Just because he had a rifle doesn't mean he was aware of everything going on around him. this guy was a coward, I'd bet he'd run as soon as confronted instead of shooting it out. 

My prayers to the victims and their family's.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

boatnut said:


> yup, read same one here- http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html?spref=fb
> 
> makes ya wonder....what does one do with a child like that? According to Viper, we'd just take him out back and shoot him?


Or according to current standards, let him assimilate into society, hoping he'll take his meds to somewhat control his animalistic behavior until he snaps and murders a mass number of people, at which point we'll say it was the weapon's fault again.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

Sharp Charge said:


> No, an assault weapon is capable of select fire, burst or auto. If he did use the AR15 like reports are now changing to, then it was just a semi automatic rifle.


Call it what you want, it was a badass rifle with a high-capacity magazine, and he was blazing with it, and somehow you expect a first grade teacher to do a Bruce Willis on him with a pistol. Aren't you the also guy who also claimed he could have got all of those weapons on the plane? There is very little practical sense to your argument.


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

If handguns cause crime why do police carry them ? Would this be any less horrific if a truck was used to drive over these babies ?

Trully evil minds will find a way to commit their atrocities . Less liberty does not equal safety. Ben Franklin ascertained this many years ago when he stated people who are willing to trade their freedom for safety soon realize they have neither.

While I do not doubt anyone's intelligence who has posted here. I trust that not any of us are more intelligent than Mr Franklin was.

Law abiding citizens will continue to obey laws and moral codes. Criminals and phycos will continue to ignore them. So it was long before any of us were born. So it will be long after all of us are gone. Blaming inanimate objects for evil that people do is not or will ever be logical.

The brutal truth is we can do nothing to stop these acts. It is only natural that peolpe demand something must be done to prevent this. To feel powerless in these situations is what sickens us. Yet any solution that is proposed the trully evil will find a way to cirumvent it.


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## chrism1367 (Aug 11, 2012)

papaperch said:


> If handguns cause crime why do police carry them ? Would this be any less horrific if a truck was used to drive over these babies ?
> 
> Trully evil minds will find a way to commit their atrocities . Less liberty does not equal safety. Ben Franklin ascertained this many years ago when he stated people who are willing to trade their freedom for safety soon realize they have neither.
> 
> ...


Well said, unfortunately that seems to be the reality 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

papaperch said:


> If handguns cause crime why do police carry them ? Would this be any less horrific if a truck was used to drive over these babies ?
> 
> Trully evil minds will find a way to commit their atrocities . Less liberty does not equal safety. Ben Franklin ascertained this many years ago when he stated people who are willing to trade their freedom for safety soon realize they have neither.
> 
> ...


If cars cause accidents, why do the police drive them? You can come up with all sorts of false analogies. Yeah, cars don't cause accidents, but we do not have unlimited freedom about what we can drive and how we can drive them. And you take Franklin out of context. He was referring to submitting to control by a off-shore power to avoid being invaded and attacked by them, not whether we can have 30 bullets vs 10 bullets in our magazine.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

streamstalker said:


> If cars cause accidents, why do the police drive them? You can come up with all sorts of false analogies. Yeah, cars don't cause accidents, but we do not have unlimited freedom about what we can drive and how we can drive them. And you take Franklin out of context. He was referring to submitting to control by a off-shore power to avoid being invaded and attacked by them, not whether we can have 30 bullets vs 10 bullets in our magazine.


That is a bad analogy. The Constitution does not have an 11th Amendment that guarantees a right to drive a Chevy Trailblazer, but it does have a 2nd Amendment.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

sbreech said:


> Or according to current standards, let him assimilate into society, hoping he'll take his meds to somewhat control his animalistic behavior until he snaps and murders a mass number of people, at which point we'll say it was the weapon's fault again.


so what is your answer in how to deal with a child/person like that? I honestly have no clue other then institutionalized but it appears those places are far and few between these days.


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

boatnut said:


> so what is your answer in how to deal with a child/person like that? I honestly have no clue other then institutionalized but it appears those places are far and few between these days.


Those were the answer, but some overly compassionate turds phased them out. Just because they were phased out doesn't mean we can't phase them back in. People need to contact their politicians demanding this, not gun control. I know that I'm doing my part in our political society by writing letters with suggestions and ideas to both parties. If enough people speak up, they should start listening since they are there because of us.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

streamstalker said:


> Call it what you want, it was a badass rifle with a high-capacity magazine, and he was blazing with it, and somehow you expect a first grade teacher to do a Bruce Willis on him with a pistol. Aren't you the also guy who also claimed he could have got all of those weapons on the plane? There is very little practical sense to your argument.


As for calling it what I want, I'll address it as it really is, a semiautomatic rifle. It doesn't matter what the designator is, it's not an assault weapon till it can shoot more than 1 bullet with a single pull of the trigger. 

I said there are many ways to bypass TSA and I've seen them first hand. Aside from TSA missing things on screenings to other points of entry within the sterile area. I never once stated this kid could have done that or got anything on a plane but some could. That's for another discussion at another time though.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

sbreech said:


> That is a bad analogy. The Constitution *does not have an 11th Amendment *that guarantees a right to drive a Chevy Trailblazer, but it does have a 2nd Amendment.


Maybe because they didn't have Chevy Trailblazers in 1789. They also did not have AR 15s. I wonder how many people you could mass murder with a musket.

They did have militas, though...well-regulated militias...with muskets...that they also used to hunt game. I also wonder who was supposed to regulate those militias.



> *A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, *the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


And may I also add that The Constitution has *27 Ammenendments* because the founders realized that this nation was a work in progress.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

papaperch said:


> If handguns cause crime why do police carry them ?


That's the dumbest statement i've seen here in quite some time. Just read it. Think about it.--Tim


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

..........


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

streamstalker said:


> Maybe because they didn't have Chevy Trailblazers in 1789. They also did not have AR 15s. I wonder how many people you could mass murder with a musket.
> 
> They did have militas, though...well-regulated militias...with muskets...that they also used to hunt game. I wonder who was supposed to regulate those militias.


Every man wasn't guaranteed a horse back in 1789 either. Regulated = trained, or disciplined, when taken into context of the time. And a musket wouldn't do much against the an onslaught of tyranny of a modern government, now would it? That AR sure would offer a fair chance though, which is what the 2nd is about.
[/COLOR] 
In today's society, if a group of people were to actively get together to form a militia (a group of men/women that swear to defend the land against tyranny) or standing army not regulated and controlled by the Federal government, the said Federal government would keep a very close watch on it, the media would label them nuts, and local governments would force them to move to the middle of nowhere because nobody wants these "nut jobs" around, although they would simply be doing just what is outlined in The document. In that respect, the 2nd has been wittled away by propoganda fueled by hate due to a non-understanding of the general public to the Constitution. This Right to Bear Arms has nothing to do with the shooting massacre in Connecticut any more than it has to do with the exploding massacre on 9/11. I remember after 9/11 a lot of people saying that if they HAD firearms it could have been prevented on the planes...

Knee-jerk reactions by the lefties or righties are not the solutions right now.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

sbreech said:


> Every man wasn't guaranteed a horse back in 1789 either. Regulated = trained, or disciplined, when taken into context of the time. And a musket wouldn't do much against the an onslaught of tyranny of a modern government, now would it? That AR sure would offer a fair chance though, which is what the 2nd is about.
> [/COLOR]
> In today's society, if a group of people were to actively get together to form a militia (a group of men/women that swear to defend the land against tyranny) or standing army not regulated and controlled by the Federal government, the said Federal government would keep a very close watch on it, the media would label them nuts, and local governments would force them to move to the middle of nowhere because nobody wants these "nut jobs" around, although they would simply be doing just what is outlined in The document. In that respect, the 2nd has been wittled away by propoganda fueled by hate due to a non-understanding of the general public to the Constitution. This Right to Bear Arms has nothing to do with the shooting massacre in Connecticut any more than it has to do with the exploding massacre on 9/11. I remember after 9/11 a lot of people saying that if they HAD firearms it could have been prevented on the planes...
> 
> Knee-jerk reactions by the lefties or righties are not the solutions right now.






> Lefties, righties, hate, knee-jerk reactions


.....That's some pretty (ahem) loaded language when we are simply debating a topic that's been in the public forum for 50 years or so and has already been federal law for a period.

It sounds like you believe the well regulated militia was intended as a safeguard against the very government that intended to regulate it.


I shall retire for the evening.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

sbreech said:


> Those were the answer, but some overly compassionate turds phased them out. Just because they were phased out doesn't mean we can't phase them back in. People need to contact their politicians demanding this, not gun control. I know that I'm doing my part in our political society by writing letters with suggestions and ideas to both parties. If enough people speak up, they should start listening since they are there because of us.


I appreciate your viewpoint and admire you "doing your part"....and yes "they" are there because of us but good luck getting them to listen to anything their constituents tell them once they are in office! It is frustrating at best.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

boatnut said:


> so what is your answer in how to deal with a child/person like that? I honestly have no clue other then institutionalized but it appears those places are far and few between these days.


Beat the living life out of him and then back into him and repeat as necessary! Your darn right I said it... Let one of my kids call my wife a dumb bit$h and pull a knife on her. I will gladly take my prison time... My children would never dream of doing such a thing because they know there are consequences for their actions. Grounded from electronics for the day? That its what the problem is. We need to quit being so afraid to punish our children, and instill some respect into them. These kids dont have the fear of god or dad or mom like we did. Because most parents feel as if their hands are tied due to the liberals crying child abuse at a fat lip... Well that fat lip happened when he called his mom a bit$h, bet he won't do it again? And in turn he won't get another fat lip.

Chew on that gentleman. If this kid would have had some discipline, sick in the head or not, this would not have happened. FACT!

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

jlami said:


> Beat the living life out of him and then back into him and repeat as necessary! Your darn right I said it... Let one of my kids call my wife a dumb bit$h and pull a knife on her. I will gladly take my prison time... My children would never dream of doing such a thing because they know there are consequences for their actions. Grounded from electronics for the day? That its what the problem is. We need to quit being so afraid to punish our children, and instill some respect into them. These kids dont have the fear of god or dad or mom like we did. Because most parents feel as if their hands are tied due to the liberals crying child abuse at a fat lip... Well that fat lip happened when he called his mom a bit$h, bet he won't do it again? And in turn he won't get another fat lip.
> 
> Chew on that gentleman. If this kid would have had some discipline, sick in the head or not, this would not have happened. FACT!
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


 you are correct about keeping kids diciplined..it does help..... but......Hitler was supposedly very diciplined as a child also...didnt stop him from doing what he did...mental illness is mental illness..and fat lips or reddened butts dont treat the problem


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Fishlandr75 said:


> ...Hitler was supposedly very diciplined as a child also...didnt stop him from turning into a maniac


Hitler also hated his own mother because she was a jew? How does that make sense.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

...your saying that strict dicipline in a child would or could have prevented this from happening..im agreeing with you , diciplineand respect for parents does work...in a healthy child...but a mentally ill child..well..that wont work.. i probly shoulda used a different example besides hitler


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Fishlandr75 said:


> ...your saying that strict dicipline in a child would or could have prevented this from happening..im agreeing with you , diciplineand respect for parents does work...in a healthy child...but a mentally ill child..well..that wont work.. i probly shoulda used a different example besides hitler


I strongly disagree with you and can speak from experience.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

jlami said:


> I strongly disagree with you and can speak from experience.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


..disagree with me? YOU made the statement in the first place


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

jlami said:


> Beat the living life out of him and then back into him and repeat as necessary! Your darn right I said it... posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


....dicipline may work...in a healthy child.....not in a mentally ill child


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

jlami said:


> I strongly disagree with you and can speak from experience.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


so are you saying that you have a child with mental illness that you beat into submission? really?


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Fishlandr75 said:


> ..disagree with me? YOU made the statement in the first place


I apologize, I am playing video games with the wife and ogfing simultaneously.lol Yes I am saying that, and yes I do speak from personal experience.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

Punishing your children isn't used enough or correctly today. Beating a child is unacceptable for any reason. If you think otherwise just wait till your kids are of age and you'll be able to sit back and watch their anger issues get them in trouble.

Humans go thru 4 stages in life. 1)might makes right 2) power in deals 3) creating a win win situation and 4) doing the right thing just because.

Depending on the maturity of an individual you have to discipline acccordingly. Toddlers don't understand doing the right thing so they either take it (might makes right) or they leverage their behavior in order to get what they want (power in deals).

In my career I have seen grown adults that are stuck in the making deals stage. I hope that most would at least find a win/win situation, and many of us will do what's right just because.

However, you punishment must be quick, proportionatly harsh, and the kid must know for sure it's gonna happen. That's the only way you can hope to control and raise children into productive adults.

If they are mentally ill then beating them does you no good. They don't see things like the rest of us and they will not respond in a way you'll know they learned a lesson. Seek professional help first then adapt your strategy....

Just my 2c.

A

My wife says I have a fishing habbit....


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

jlami said:


> I apologize, I am playing video games with the wife and ogfing simultaneously.lol Yes I am saying that, and yes I do speak from personal experience.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


we're good jlami....no need to apologize..but im guessing as a child you were just "a little ****"...same as me...my dad hit me once in my life..and yes...it pretty much ended my crappy behavior right then and there too....but mental illness IS a real thing in some youths..and cannot be corrected physically...or even at all.


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

Bottom line kids are to coddled now nuff said

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Mr. A said:


> Punishing your children isn't used enough or correctly today. Beating a child is unacceptable for any reason. If you think otherwise just wait till your kids are of age and you'll be able to sit back and watch their anger issues get them in trouble.
> 
> Humans go thru 4 stages in life. 1)might makes right 2) power in deals 3) creating a win win situation and 4) doing the right thing just because.
> 
> ...


...i have 10 yrs experience in the medical field...4 of which were with psychiatric patients and youths....THIS...is correct...Thankyou Mr A


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## jeffmo (Apr 7, 2004)

jlami said:


> Beat the living life out of him and then back into him and repeat as necessary! Your darn right I said it... Let one of my kids call my wife a dumb bit$h and pull a knife on her. I will gladly take my prison time... My children would never dream of doing such a thing because they know there are consequences for their actions. Grounded from electronics for the day? That its what the problem is. We need to quit being so afraid to punish our children, and instill some respect into them. These kids dont have the fear of god or dad or mom like we did. Because most parents feel as if their hands are tied due to the liberals crying child abuse at a fat lip... Well that fat lip happened when he called his mom a bit$h, bet he won't do it again? And in turn he won't get another fat lip.
> 
> Chew on that gentleman. If this kid would have had some discipline, sick in the head or not, this would not have happened. FACT!
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I would have to say that you have no experience in dealing with a child,young adult,etc., that is developmentally disabled.
I have no problem whatsoever with a child getting needed discipline and I do think that far too many parents are more worried about being their childs friend more than they are being a good parent.
But beating a child/young person who is dd will do far more damage than good.
I'm a parent of a 23 year old who was diagnose w/ severe Autism when he was 1.5 years old.We were told that he would have severe learning disabilities to the point that he would never be able to read or learn to write his name.We were told that he would also have issues with anger.All these years later he has graduated from HS w/ a 3.2,graqduated from a 2 year vocational school in web page design and will be enrolled at Columbus State next quarter studying graphic design.It took so much extra work over the years to reach him but we never gave up and that is what being a parent is all about wether a child is DD or not.
I am so saddened at the tragedy that has happened.As a parent and a first responder I can't even begin to imagine how horrific that situation was.My prayers are with the Parents,siblings,and relatives of the children who were killed.
As a gun owner I have to say that I have always defended my rights and will continue to.But,I also have to say that the time has come for common sense legislation that will address the serious multi-facetd problem we are facing.The problem isn't soley guns.It's the availabilty of them to people who shouldn't own guns,it's addressing responsible ownership,and taking a look at all of the issues dealing with people with disabilities.
I hope that those who will be making the coming decisions will do so with level heads and that God grants all of the involved families peace of mind as soon as possible.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

jeffmo said:


> I would have to say that you have no experience in dealing with a child,young adult,etc., that is developmentally disabled.
> I have no problem whatsoever with a child getting needed discipline and I do think that far too many parents are more worried about being their childs friend more than they are being a good parent.
> But beating a child/young person who is dd will do far more damage than good.
> I'm a parent of a 23 year old who was diagnose w/ severe Autism when he was 1.5 years old.We were told that he would have severe learning disabilities to the point that he would never be able to read or learn to write his name.We were told that he would also have issues with anger.All these years later he has graduated from HS w/ a 3.2,graqduated from a 2 year vocational school in web page design and will be enrolled at Columbus State next quarter studying graphic design.It took so much extra work over the years to reach him but we never gave up and that is what being a parent is all about wether a child is DD or not.
> ...


Obama care should help the mentals by provideing free 24 fun- gun safes.


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## Thor (May 3, 2012)

After a tragedy such as this, so many lawmakers and media people are looking for someone or something to blame - Guns, un-armed teachers, lack of metal detectors, the fact that the shooter was bullied or molested. It all boils down to personal responsibility. As a gun owner, I was surprised at how easily it was for me to buy my first gun. I then realized how easy it was to buy several 12'' chef knives, a chainsaw, a 4 wheeled battering ram ( i mean car), a blowtorch, pounds of fertilizer and gallons of diesel fuel.

Point being, how do you define "a killing weapon"? Again, it reverts to personal accountability and responsibility. Intent is the most dangerous weapon; a tool is just a inanimate medium through which human actions are channeled. If someone wants to do something, they will find a way. Prisoners on full lockdown get weapons. People run red lights and kill others. Handguns are illegal to posess or buy if you are under the age of 21, yet most accidents with handguns happen with children and teens. Drugs are illegal and yet our prisons are full of drug offenders, and taxpayers pay for it. We pay for lawmakers to enact these laws to "protect us" from our own stupidity and general ineptness, but we aren't any safer because of it.

We need more of a focus on personal responsibility, accountability, and respect for ourselves and others in our actions, and not on where to put the blame. We need to learn from our mistakes, NOT dwell on them and repeat them. If you have kids, hug them extra hard tonight, and start teaching them how to be responsible tomorrow. If you're a faith person, pray for them.


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## Thor (May 3, 2012)

Can we do a poll on this thread, on how many of us are here late at night because our wives are mad at guns, somehow making us bad people? pretty please? I wanna know who's been sleeping on the most comfortable couch !


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

Thor said:


> Can we do a poll on this thread, on how many of us are here late at night because our wives are mad at guns, somehow making us bad people? pretty please? I wanna know who's been sleeping on the most comfortable couch !


Nope, my wife see's it clearly. It's the person behind the trigger that holds the responsibility. I'll still get to sleep in my bed when I get home from work at 6:30am. haha


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Thor said:


> Can we do a poll on this thread, on how many of us are here late at night because our wives are mad at guns, somehow making us bad people? pretty please? I wanna know who's been sleeping on the most comfortable couch !


My wife bought most mine for me. She likes being married to a man that would die before letting our family get hurt. And enjoys me bring home the game. Also by the age of 9 all 5 of my kids were trained and shoot good.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Thor said:


> After a tragedy such as this, so many lawmakers and media people are looking for someone or something to blame - Guns, un-armed teachers, lack of metal detectors, the fact that the shooter was bullied or molested. It all boils down to personal responsibility. As a gun owner, I was surprised at how easily it was for me to buy my first gun. I then realized how easy it was to buy several 12'' chef knives, a chainsaw, a 4 wheeled battering ram ( i mean car), a blowtorch, pounds of fertilizer and gallons of diesel fuel.
> 
> Point being, how do you define "a killing weapon"? Again, it reverts to personal accountability and responsibility. Intent is the most dangerous weapon; a tool is just a inanimate medium through which human actions are channeled. If someone wants to do something, they will find a way. Prisoners on full lockdown get weapons. People run red lights and kill others. Handguns are illegal to posess or buy if you are under the age of 21, yet most accidents with handguns happen with children and teens. Drugs are illegal and yet our prisons are full of drug offenders, and taxpayers pay for it. We pay for lawmakers to enact these laws to "protect us" from our own stupidity and general ineptness, but we aren't any safer because of it.
> 
> We need more of a focus on personal responsibility, accountability, and respect for ourselves and others in our actions, and not on where to put the blame. We need to learn from our mistakes, NOT dwell on them and repeat them. If you have kids, hug them extra hard tonight, and start teaching them how to be responsible tomorrow. If you're a faith person, pray for them.


Im just curious if tje firearms were locked up... or just in a drawer. All firearms but 1 are locked up in my house... the other is on me....granted everyone knows the code... it would mean my cuz...nephue...friend or uncle couldent steal one.


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

This makes sense: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-of-an-assault-weapons-ban-a-modest-proposal/


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Even many developmentally challenged children could use a swat on the bottom now and then , spanking....not beating. To withold that form of correction when it is called for , using a condition as an excuse , is denying them something we have all benefited from as we were growing up. A very personal form of discipline that says there is still something expected from them even though it may be more of a challenge , preparing them as much as possible for the real world. A person to person reckoning that says what you did will not be tolerated for any reason. It teaches respect for athority in a way that nothing else will. I have a child with autism so I know a little about it. A spanking is not always called for but as a parent you can recognize when they are genuinely having a problem or just acting out for the same reasons any other kid would. Unfortunately too many parents withold a spanking from a developmentally challenged child making their condition worse , they end up with a child who is not only challenged but they are spoiled rotten and have no respect for athority as well. A very severe handicap or development disorder where they are completely and totally unable to function normally is a different story however and in that case I agree that form of punishment is not called for.


In the case of this shooter , if he was high functioning enough to take a gun to a school and use it then he was high functioning enough to have benefited from some spankings as a child.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Fishlandr75 said:


> you are correct about keeping kids diciplined..it does help..... but......Hitler was supposedly very diciplined as a child also...didnt stop him from doing what he did...mental illness is mental illness..and fat lips or reddened butts dont treat the problem


Hitler was a sociopath , not average.


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

The point is made that it was the young man USING the weapons that actually CAUSED this horrific slaughter. He apparently got the weapons from his mother whom he killed 1st. Short of designing a "smart" weapon with built in infallable "moral logic" ie, "this is a LEGAL use, I will fire" or "This is an ILLEGAL act, I will not fire" the only realistic remaining options are a combination of those discussed. "Harden" our schools AND assign SPECIALLY TRAINED armed officers to them as staff. Provide BETTER mental health services and programs and start an indepth program to identify AT A YOUNG AGE persons who exhibit mental health issues and actually provide REAL and EFFECTIVE treatment for them. "Sweeping them under the rug" and ignoring them or hoping they will magically "cure" themselves (or just go away) is obviously NOT working. The young man who commited this crime was academically a HONOR student as was the Aurora Colorado killer. Most mentally ill persons ARE NOT violent, and most live their lives out largely quietly shunned by society, trying to "fit into' a world they are often ill equipted to deal with. The ones that are the majority of the mass murderers are those whom just have little or no real sense of remorse or empathy; they simply are fundementally INCAPABLE or UNABLE to see or realize the pain of others; apparently they see other human beings simply as walking talking OBJECTS who are often at odds with them. They tend to have the same warmth and concern toward others we have for a used Kleenex. Strangely though, most of them with the help of family or caregivers manage to live out their lives quietly. BUT the POTENTIAL is ALWAYS THERE...how DO we as a society keep them "docile" and meanwhile keep them from harming others OR themselves? THAT is what this ALL boils down to. Left to their OWN devices EXPECT "more of the same" we just recently witnessed on multiple occasions...


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

Thor said:


> Can we do a poll on this thread, on how many of us are here late at night because our wives are mad at guns, somehow making us bad people? pretty please? I wanna know who's been sleeping on the most comfortable couch !


i had no problem sleeping in my bed last night. my wife not only doesnt have a problem with my guns but has her own 380 in our safe in the bedroom.
sherman


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

jeffmo said:


> I would have to say that you have no experience in dealing with a child,young adult,etc., that is developmentally disabled.
> I have no problem whatsoever with a child getting needed discipline and I do think that far too many parents are more worried about being their childs friend more than they are being a good parent.
> But beating a child/young person who is dd will do far more damage than good.
> I'm a parent of a 23 year old who was diagnose w/ severe Autism when he was 1.5 years old.We were told that he would have severe learning disabilities to the point that he would never be able to read or learn to write his name.We were told that he would also have issues with anger.All these years later he has graduated from HS w/ a 3.2,graqduated from a 2 year vocational school in web page design and will be enrolled at Columbus State next quarter studying graphic design.It took so much extra work over the years to reach him but we never gave up and that is what being a parent is all about wether a child is DD or not.


You are wrong in your assumption, I have more experience with it than anyone would ever understand. More than this thread would allow me to share. We are not talking about a learning disability or autism. We are talking about a behavior disorder that is developed by lack of discipline, parenting, and proper love.

As far as your sons accomplishments, good job dad! I mean that, and on the other side you are absolutely correct in the fact that abusing a child is absolutely unacceptable. My point is that the people committing these acts are not simply autistic, our have downs etc.they are lacking the stability and discipline that is needed to appropriatly deal with their actions. A Behavior Disorder can be rectified by swift, stern consequences for your actions. However we still classify BD as a mental disability... Bottom line the guy that committed this tragedy was failed by his parents. Lack of discipline is a major problem in this country and will continue to be as long as we refuse to discipline our children accordingly.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## fishhogg (Apr 16, 2009)

Bottom line guys, people kill people. It is that simple. It is a shame that a tragity such as this will become the center for the left to push thier anti gun agenda. And no my wife is not mad at guns! She is alot smarter than that.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

jlami said:


> You are wrong in your assumption, I have more experience with it than anyone would ever understand. More than this thread would allow me to share. We are not talking about a learning disability or autism. We are talking about a behavior disorder that is developed by lack of discipline, parenting, and proper love.
> 
> As far as your sons accomplishments, good job dad! I mean that, and on the other side you are absolutely correct in the fact that abusing a child is absolutely unacceptable. My point is that the people committing these acts are not simply autistic, our have downs etc.they are lacking the stability and discipline that is needed to appropriatly deal with their actions. A Behavior Disorder can be rectified by swift, stern consequences for your actions. However we still classify BD as a mental disability... Bottom line the guy that committed this tragedy was failed by his parents. Lack of discipline is a major problem in this country and will continue to be as long as we refuse to discipline our children accordingly.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Agree, but it is also from parents not teaching morals, teaching the difference between right and wrong, teaching values, along with discipline...!
Some parents have NO time for their kids...kids play video games all day and live in that fantasy world, some kids run the street and learn from other kids, kids are raising kids and they all gotta "GET MINE" or be noticed!
Teachers have to teach criteria to pass the Ohio Standards test or lose more funding and they have no power over students who want to cause issues...they cannot teach morals/values, pray, or some can't even pledge to the flag! 
As much as anything, THIS IS A DISEASE OF OUR SOCIETY THAT WE ALL HAVE LET HAPPEN!

Lowell, also has a very good point!

My son's school district had a High School student last night that posted this on facebook and is now in trouble..."26 dead, I could have done alot better than that!"
The school district put out an "All-Call", deputies will be in all schools, and the kid was brought in for questioning!
What in the heck is wrong with that kid?????


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

fishhogg said:


> Bottom line guys, people kill people. It is that simple. It is a shame that a tragity such as this will become the center for the left to push thier anti gun agenda. And no my wife is not mad at guns! She is alot smarter than that.


I don't know if its an anti gun agenda. I think it has more to do with high capacity weapons designed for killing other people not for hunting wild game. Do any sportsmen really need a rifle that can hold more than 3 shots? I posted this in an earlier thread and no one can seem to explain the wide disparity in these homicide rates . Is it stricter gun control or is the population of these other countries less violent than our country?
United States (2010): 4.2 (homicides per 100,000 people) / 12,996 (homicides in total)

Canada (2010): 1.6 / 554 

China (2010): 1.0 / 13,410 

Japan (2010): 0.4 / 506 

Australia (2010): 1.0 / 229 

France (2009): 1.1 / 682 

Germany (2010): 0.8 / 690 

Italy (2010): 0.9 / 529 

Greece (2010): 1.5 / 176 

Spain (2010): 0.8 / 390 

Portugal (2010): 1.2 / 124 

Sweden (2010): 1.0 / 91 

Norway (2010): 0.6 / 29 

Austria (2010): 0.6 / 53 

Switzerland (2010): 0.7 / 52 

Ireland (2010): 1.2 / 54 total


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Intimidator said:


> My son's school district had a High School student last night that posted this on facebook and is now in trouble..."26 dead, I could have done alot better than that!"
> The school district put out an "All-Call", deputies will be in all schools, and the kid was brought in for questioning!
> What in the heck is wrong with that kid?????


A perfect example to support my point... I hope his punishment is more than simply being questioned by the authorities. (which he will glorify if allowed to communicate with others again any time soon.) I do not reffer to criminal consequences because chances are he is simply being a little punk with a horrible attempt at some shock humor. However his parents need to deal with it accordingly as well. He was looking for attention by making that statement and he should definatly get the attention that it deserves. However that attention needs to be something that will ensure he understands how ignorant his statement was and that nothing like that will ever come from him again... It is up to his parents whether or not he grows into a better young man as a result from his actions. Unfortunatly I would place my money on the "light hand" side of the bet.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

jlami said:


> A perfect example to support my point... I hope his punishment is more than simply being questioned by the authorities. (which he will glorify if allowed to communicate with others again any time soon.) I do not reffer to criminal consequences because chances are he is simply being a little punk with a horrible attempt at some shock humor. However his parents need to deal with it accordingly as well. He was looking for attention by making that statement and he should definatly get the attention that it deserves. However that attention needs to be something that will ensure he understands how ignorant his statement was and that nothing like that will ever come from him again... It is up to his parents whether or not he grows into a better young man as a result from his actions. Unfortunatly I would place my money on the "light hand" side of the bet.


I'll post what happens...the entire school district is having a "Safety Drill" right now! 

RobertJ's post makes me wonder if our society has fallen that far...are we deadlier because we are Free, because of money and status, or no fear of consequences, not raising our children right, or all of the above plus more???


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

Intimidator said:


> I'll post what happens...the entire school district is having a "Safety Drill" right now!
> 
> RobertJ's post makes me wonder if our society has fallen that far...are we deadlier because we are Free, because of money and status, or no fear of consequences, not raising our children right, or all of the above plus more???


I feel it is all of the above. It is not whether or not our nation has firearms in every home, or what type, or how many. It is how we as productive citizens control and council our youth. It is about responsible gun ownership and responsibility for our actions.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

I remember in highschool we had drills for intruder. We had to all line up aginst the wall that couldent be seen from the hall none of the rooms had doors on them...


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

ranger373v said:


> I remember in highschool we had drills for intruder. We had to all line up aginst the wall that couldent be seen from the hall none of the rooms had doors on them...


A gun weilding mad man would not have made it very far in my high school. We had the 2 door entry process, armed gaurds, 10ft. Iron fence gated with gaurd shacks, and metal detectors. Gates were opened by gaurds for buses, students were not allowed to park on campus, and parents and visitors had to show I.D. and be cleared by office via radio from the gaurd shack. Students were still armed heavier than gaurds on most days. If some nutbag made it past all the security in place I am confidant one of the less law abiding students would have acted accordingly.

Now my elementary school in the same district was not quite as "locked down" as the Hisgh School and middle school were. However we still had 2 door entry metal detectors and armed gaurds.

The middle school was lacking the gaurd shacks and locked gates, still had a 10 ft. iron fence though.

THANK YOU LORD FOR LEADING ME TO DELAWARE OHIO!!!!!


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Did you grow up in a prison? Lol


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

ranger373v said:


> Did you grow up in a prison? Lol


Lol, I would have lost less friends growing up... North St. Louis. Seems like a different country sometimes in comparison.

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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

Unfortuneatly nothin is 100%safe and 100% realistic...like i said the bank has the dbl doors and still got jacked


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

fishhogg said:


> Bottom line guys, people kill people. It is that simple. It is a shame that a tragity such as this will become the center for the left to push thier anti gun agenda. And no my wife is not mad at guns! She is alot smarter than that.


+1 for the leftist point. My wife and I always laugh at how the news sensationalizes a story only to follow up using a contradictory stance.

The situation is tradgic, I feel this way, and I believe it. However, anti gun legislation won't stop these things from happening. You can't legislate away an individuals lack of responsability! You also cannot medicate away problems.....

A

My wife says I have a fishing habbit....


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

ranger373v said:


> Unfortuneatly nothin is 100%safe and 100% realistic...like i said the bank has the dbl doors and still got jacked


Exactly...throughout history, there has always been EVIL!


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## Silent Mike (Aug 9, 2009)

Mr. A said:


> +1 for the leftist point. My wife and I always laugh at how the news sensationalizes a story only to follow up using a contradictory stance.
> 
> The situation is tradgic, I feel this way, and I believe it. However, anti gun legislation won't stop these things from happening. You can't legislate away an individuals lack of responsability! You also cannot medicate away problems.....
> 
> ...


I agree with this....Ideally guns wouldnt exist, but they do, and i love them. IMO however there should probably be more control to keep people honest. In an awful tragedy such as this, with a mind so evil, sadly i dont think any type of gun control would have stopped this. If this evil mind is satisfied with killing children, then he would go to any length, break any law to get his hands on the weapons he thought he needed....

the worst part, other than the losses, is that the families will NEVER have closure, they will never know why....why the hell did he kill his mother at home and THEN go to the school...the kids werent casualties of cross fire, the kids were the targets, and thats bone chilling...thoughts to the families, i cant even imagine what they are going through. ..


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Silent Mike said:


> I agree with this....Ideally guns wouldnt exist, but they do, and i love them. IMO however there should probably be more control to keep people honest. In an awful tragedy such as this, with a mind so evil, sadly i dont think any type of gun control would have stopped this. If this evil mind is satisfied with killing children, then he would go to any length, break any law to get his hands on the weapons he thought he needed....
> 
> the worst part, other than the losses, is that the families will NEVER have closure, they will never know why....why the hell did he kill his mother at home and THEN go to the school...the kids werent casualties of cross fire, the kids were the targets, and thats bone chilling...thoughts to the families, i cant even imagine what they are going through. ..


That's the problem about the debate for more control. The honest aren't the ones doing the killing! The kid "stole" the guns, killed his mom, "stole" her car and broke into a school and started shooting kids! He was a criminal before he ever left his own house. And obviously, he felt the laws didn't apply to him..... 

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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Honestly guns not existing wouldn't help any thing as you can kill with lots of other every day items and even kill more then 22 quickly. 
Actually if crime and bad people didn't exist that would be the answer. And any one who thinks it can be stopped or cured is mental. People snap, get high or drunk or just go mental. We cant stop it. So the next best thing I see is limit it to how many. Now guns in peoples hands can do that. Might not stop them all. Bt a coward would change their mind. Proven by how crime has dropped way down when Concealed carry is passed. Its the criminals that want gguns gone. Be safer for them to kill.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

viper1 said:


> Honestly guns not existing wouldn't help any thing as you can kill with lots of other every day items and even kill more then 22 quickly.
> Actually if crime and bad people didn't exist that would be the answer. And any one who thinks it can be stopped or cured is mental. People snap, get high or drunk or just go mental. We cant stop it. So the next best thing I see is limit it to how many. Now guns in peoples hands can do that. Might not stop them all. Bt a coward would change their mind. Proven by how crime has dropped way down when Concealed carry is passed. Its the criminals that want gguns gone. Be safer for them to kill.


How could a single person kill 20 or more people in that setting, that quick without a gun? Everyday items. I'm not trying to condemn guns at all, just curious about this statement.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> How could a single person kill 20 or more people in that setting, that quick without a gun? Everyday items. I'm not trying to condemn guns at all, just curious about this statement.


 bomb..

Not so much that setting but cars running over a crowd. Mass poisoning... air planes....


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> How could a single person kill 20 or more people in that setting, that quick without a gun? Everyday items. I'm not trying to condemn guns at all, just curious about this statement.


Lets see a bomb is simple to make with house hold items. poison has always been a favorite for killing large groups, How about the car he stole. Now image him waiting till buses were getting unloaded or in the evening loading and school letting out. Be a simple mater to drive through a crowd killing unlimited. Then take off and do it over and over till caught. And the way some times it takes a long time to catch them it would keep going on for a long time. Many many people dead. Thats just off the top of my head, But I am sure a crazy person who is ready to die could think of tons.

Lots of schools many locations. In my town when i take my grand kids some times there is a hundred or better out front or on the play ground.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

I said in this setting. A school with kids scattered about. You specifically said this event.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I said in this setting. A school with kids scattered about. You specifically said this event.


Dont think i was specific about any thing and you asked how they could kill that many. Bombs can be made by things in your house, or stolen as he did the gun. Also he stole the car. You asked I answered


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Also in aschool setting their are not scattered. Most all the kids he shot was in one room. And they get together for lunch and coming and going.


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## fishhogg (Apr 16, 2009)

robertj298 said:


> I don't know if its an anti gun agenda. I think it has more to do with high capacity weapons designed for killing other people not for hunting wild game. Do any sportsmen really need a rifle that can hold more than 3 shots? I posted this in an earlier thread and no one can seem to explain the wide disparity in these homicide rates . Is it stricter gun control or is the population of these other countries less violent than our country?
> United States (2010): 4.2 (homicides per 100,000 people) / 12,996 (homicides in total)
> 
> Canada (2010): 1.6 / 554
> ...


Nice try there robertj. You are trying to paint the USA as the murder capital of the world. Funny how you left out Mexico, Russia, Central & South America, Africa, and the Middle East. The countries you have listed are also much smaller in size and population than the United States. We have 310 million people living here, and if any of those countries top 20 million I would be surprized. As to how many rounds you can have in a gun, who cares, as long as you are not breaking the law. I do a lot of target shooting and don't want to have to reload all the time. I am just tired of all the liberals out there who think that they know what is best for me and my family. Maybe you should relook at all the laws that you have passed, and see where these type of shootings are taking place. Gun free zones! The crazies and bad guys know where the pickings are the easiest.


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

fishhogg said:


> Nice try there robertj. You are trying to paint the USA as the murder capital of the world. Funny how you left out Mexico, Russia, Central & South America, Africa, and the Middle East. The countries you have listed are also much smaller in size and population than the United States. We have 310 million people living here, and if any of those countries top 20 million I would be surprized. As to how many rounds you can have in a gun, who cares, as long as you are not breaking the law. I do a lot of target shooting and don't want to have to reload all the time. I am just tired of all the liberals out there who think that they know what is best for me and my family. Maybe you should relook at all the laws that you have passed, and see where these type of shootings are taking place. Gun free zones! The crazies and bad guys know where the pickings are the easiest.


I should have said civilized world. Of course our population is higher but the numbers listed are homicide rates are per 100,000 people. Look at China who has 4 times more people than we do. By your scenario, who cares if we all have a fully automatic weapon and anyone knows that if you like to target shoot a bolt action rife is more accurate than a semiautomatic rifle.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Lol. More shooter then gun.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

My point viper is that its much more likely for this type of tragedy to happen with the easy access to these types of weapons. If they didn't exist, you can't guarantee this would have happened some other way. The odds of doing that type of destruction with any other device are much less. How big of a bomb are you going to be able to carry into a school and how many people are you telling me its going to kill? Tidy bowl bombs can't hold a candle to an AK.


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## glacier_dropsy (Mar 28, 2007)

fishhogg said:


> Germany is well over 80 million, dude, and that is just for starters. The power of finding info on the internet seems to be lost on you. I am getting tired of guys like you rubbing their gun muzzles in the faces of people who have lost family members to gun violence, especially when you back it up with strong arguments like "don't want to reload all the time".


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Yeah really. Do yourself a favor and just say "because its legal". Because you don't want to reload all the time.. Ugh


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

glacier_dropsy said:


> . I am getting tired of guys like you rubbing their gun muzzles in the faces of people who have lost family members to gun violence, who back it up with strong arguments like "don't want to reload all the time".



Personally that statement is offensive to me. I am adamently against gun legislation and don't see how that's rubbing anything in anyone's faces? Instead of asking why somebody is against the newest gun legislation ask yourself why your so comfortable letting the government erode your second amendment rights? The answers to both questions are typically simple but the reason why are not.

Nobody wants to put their guns in anyones face when they have lost someone to gun violence but in most cases people find it easier to blame a gun then have to realize the facts about situations. Unfortunately people think with their hearts before they use their heads and that's when we all suffer more in the end.

This situation is a tragedy. But you cannot legislate these situations away. Period. The real issue here isn't guns its the responsability of gun owner to keep their firearms out of reach to anyone that isn't or shouldn't have access to them. NO ONE is saying that's not an issue here.

Society wants to medicate and legislate those with mental illness away for good. The problem started when institutions for the mentally ill were shut down. Those people likely ended up in the criminal justice system and are constantly revolving through it. 
They don't have the money for the proper treatment so they are put on the streets time after time and eventually people get hurt.

There isn't a rational reason or answer why for the latest tragedy, I just people would use their heads and realize that!

I'm off the soapbox now. Spend my 2c anywhere you like...

A
My wife says I have a fishing habbit....


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

Mr. A said:


> Personally that statement is offensive to me. I am adamently against gun legislation and don't see how that's rubbing anything in anyone's faces? Instead of asking why somebody is against the newest gun legislation ask yourself why your so comfortable letting the government erode your second amendment rights? The answers to both questions are typically simple but the reason why are not.
> 
> Nobody wants to put their guns in anyones face when they have lost someone to gun violence but in most cases people find it easier to blame a gun then have to realize the facts about situations. Unfortunately people think with their hearts before they use their heads and that's when we all suffer more in the end.
> 
> ...


Well Well said 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## robertj298 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mr. A said:


> Personally that statement is offensive to me. I am adamently against gun legislation and don't see how that's rubbing anything in anyone's faces? Instead of asking why somebody is against the newest gun legislation ask yourself why your so comfortable letting the government erode your second amendment rights? The answers to both questions are typically simple but the reason why are not.
> 
> Nobody wants to put their guns in anyones face when they have lost someone to gun violence but in most cases people find it easier to blame a gun then have to realize the facts about situations. Unfortunately people think with their hearts before they use their heads and that's when we all suffer more in the end.
> 
> ...


At one time fully automatic machine guns were legal.So you would have been opposed to the legislation banning those?


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> My point viper is that its much more likely for this type of tragedy to happen with the easy access to these types of weapons. If they didn't exist, you can't guarantee this would have happened some other way. The odds of doing that type of destruction with any other device are much less. How big of a bomb are you going to be able to carry into a school and how many people are you telling me its going to kill? Tidy bowl bombs can't hold a candle to an AK.


There isnt really easy access he stole them. And you cant guarantee any thing really. A simple black powder pipe bomb made with sulpher, salt peter and charcoal all read available loaded with nails or marbles could kill as many as is in one location. These bombs are on the internet with a million more ideas and directions. we use to make pipe bombs when we first become teenagers so many years ago. Of coarse with out the extra shrapnel.Seen and heard of many built. T hey were basically big fire crackers and dangerous. But kids still do it today. I would fool with a tidy bowl or a vanish bomb. 
I just really get tired of people whining about guns. Its the people not the guns. A killer is a killer. And when people go crazy and want to kill they will. And its truley easier to wipe out big crowds then it is individuals. And all this discussion is doing on the internet is giving other crazies ideas.Thats why i dont like posting the stuff your asking. I fact when this post stopped being prayer and feelings for the familys and changed to attention on the killer and guns I feel the moderators should have closed it.There is no cure or fault for many things in this world. And asking and suppling answers on how to kill more is just stupid. So I wont answer those type questions again. I would hate to think a discussion I participated in would hurt even 1 child.


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

This discussion has now settled into a well worn track that does not have a good record of civility on this site. Thread closed.


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