# Jet Divers



## fbcoachfisherman (Jun 9, 2006)

Hello All! 

I hope this topic has not been discussed. I did a search and really could not find anything.

Many of us fish the western basin troll spoons with jet divers. Along with this many of us have a wide variety of jets from 10 to 40, with most probably having 20's and 30's. One of the fine books I picked up this winter was the precision trolling - big water edition. It contains some interesting information regarding jet divers. I recently listened to Mark Romanack at a seminar and he confirmed.

Chart Line Usage

10 Jet - 10# mono
20 Jet - 10# mono
30 Jet - 10# mono
40 Jet - 30# mono

The most versatile jet to have from what I can see is a 10 Jet. A 10 can get you anywhere from 0 to 30 feet down depending on distance back. Mono is the only chart provided for a 10 jet, but the 20's and up have charts for braid, fireline, and wire. For the sake of minimal discussion I'm using Mono for this thread. 

For a 10 Jet you need to let it back just 18' to get it 10 feet down. A 20 jet takes 45' to get to 10 feet down. A 30 jet takes 35' to get down to 10'. And a 40 jet takes 35' back to get 10' down.

For a 10 Jet just 70' back gets you to 20' down. Comparing that to a 20 jet you have to set it back 115' and it takes a 85' back to get down to 20' down for a 30 jet. It takes a 105' back for the 40 jet.

For a 10 Jet it takes 210' to get down to 30'. A 20 Jet takes close to 190' to get to 30 feet down. A 30 Jet takes 200' back to get to 30' down (that is a shocker - I thought 100' got you there. A 40 jet takes 205' (another shocker), although it would be interesting to see a chart with lesser line diameter. You can do quite a bit better with braid or wire.

I think the thing that surprises me the most is what a 10 Jet can do and what a 30 and 40 really don't do. Fishing the western basin a 10 jet can really get it done. Especially in that range from 0 to 25'. A 10 jet takes just 115' to get to 25'. Regardless of the jet, to get to 30' (most practical depth) they all take a large amount of line to get there. 

Obviously line diameter makes a difference for them all, but a 10 jet seems to be the best for western basin applications. Deeper depths are going to require smaller diameter lines and/or dipsy's.

I was wondering what others thoughts are. Looking at the chart, maybe I should be looking at just 10 jets for the western basin. I remember fishing over by Wheatley, Ontario last summer and thinking I was at one depth with my 40's and realized I was only at pretty shallow depth. (lucky to catch the fish I did). Also, I now realize that the fish I caught last summer weren't on the bottom. Fishing 30' of water I would run my 30 jets back a 100' and would think I was down a the bottom when in reality I was probably only in the 20' range (14' mono).

My guess is that a precision trolling book is more important than I thought.

Your thoughts are welcome. 

Mike


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## ERIE REBEL (Jan 28, 2006)

Hey Mike we don't call it the bible for nothing.Don't know about you but I'm really tired of this weather.Take care and stay in touch.


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## fbcoachfisherman (Jun 9, 2006)

Hello Rebel! Yes the weather is rotttttten. But, I'd bet the icefisherman would disagree. 1/10/07 was the last boat day for me. This weather will end 11 straight months of Erie fishing for me from my boat. We MUST fish together when the ice is gone!!!

REGARDING THE JET DIVERS.

Well that is why I posted.  

The numbers are the numbers and I realize Luhr Jensen says different. The source I am using is Precision Trolling - Big Water Edition. I always thought the 100 Feet back with 10 lb. mono would get you to near the jet number. But, the Romanack Bible says different.

Keep the thoughts coming.

On another note:

Mark Romanack is a good speaker. Does a nice presentation as well. He'll be coming to Bait Dave's place in March and I'll be there.

Mike


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## Bluefinn (Jan 26, 2007)

Jets are what I'm adding to my boat this year.Never fished with them before.I thought you used the number jet at 2 mph with 10# test & it would take you down to that number foot range with 100ft of line out.I didn't know there were so many variables.Would like to hear more about running jets.


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## Got One (May 26, 2006)

I just recently bought the new addition and was very suprised at the depth's the chart had shown. I to was under the assumption of 100 ft to the # of the jet. That was the theory I used and caught many fish thinking I was in a certain zone. Maybe I was catching fish in a differant depth than I thought. Who knows, I still find it hard to believe a 10 will go deeper than a 30 at the same distance back!!


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## fugarwi7 (Sep 20, 2006)

I didn't read your entire post and log to memory and without questioning the depth charts you included (even though I do), my thought is why have all of that extra line out just to get a 10 to go so deep when the same depth can be acheived with much less line out using a 30 or 40? I have 20/30/40 sizes and frankly run 30's and 40's most often. I have better control of my set-up with less line out, especially if an outside rod goes and I have to clear inside rods without a tangle and less chance of loosing a fish. The more mono out the more stretch also, so why run the risk of a weaker hook set or a tangle when less line on each rig reduces the chances of that happening? Just my first thoughts.

EDIT...OOPS...went back and re-read your post and I think I missed the premise of your post! Now I'm confused! Makes my thoughts on "the extra line" out seem stupid! Sorry for the ramble!


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## fugarwi7 (Sep 20, 2006)

Another thought...I have read that there is very little depth difference between the 20/30/40 with the same amount of line out, but I would also think line weight, line type, current and boat speed would all affect the depth
a jet will dive. Also the amount of line on your spool will vary the read out on your line counter between rigs as well. The most full proof method is to get on the lake on a calm day and depth test your divers with your own gear. Go to place where the depth is at, say 20', put on your diver, let out line until it touches bottom, record your data for each rod/reel and line count and use those numbers as your guide. Then do it for each diver size and compare. It takes time but you will know for sure what each one dives at a particular set-up. You could also go out deeper set all lines at the same amount out and troll towards shore until they hit bottom. I am sure most will never take the time to do this, which is why we buy the books...but if you don't trust the numbers, that is the only way I know that would confirm the numbers.

Fb...This might be a good post for Jim Stedke's online info thread!


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## Fish-Crazy (Dec 1, 2006)

If you want to know exactly what depth you are running your baits at, and you should, and you must, then you definitely need to get the: 

GTM40+ Depth and Temperature Meter.

Since I am the Renosky Lure Rep. and Distributor, I am also working on getting it to the tackle shops in the area. In the meantime call Erie Outfitters in Sheffield Lake, Craig can still get it for you.

Pick a nice day with flat lake, no wind, and go to an area where you know there&#8217;s very little current. You can run this tool behind all your divers, including the deep diving cranks (use a tandem set up), and make your own chart. This will take a few hours, depending on how many different gages you want to run each diver, you can run them every 10', 20' or 30'. I did my charts every 10' up to 50' then every 25' up to 250', all at 2 mph. I would give you my charts, but it wouldn&#8217;t be accurate for your set up any way, besides my charts are on the boat in storage. The best is to make your own charting, this will be for your rods, reel, line, boat, etc. You will be surprised how different it will be compared to all the charts you can get. I can assure you that it will be accurate, and you can use it to know exactly how deep your running.

It is important to realize that different variables play a very important role in how deep your divers are running. For example: A dipsey will run deeper at slower speeds then at higher speeds. On the other hand, a jet will run shallower at slower speeds and deeper at higher speeds. Other variables are waves, currents, wind and so on. It is very important that you are able recognise them and adjust accordingly, and this tool can definitely help you. With it, I can get all my six dipseys to pull fish, whereas I would be way off using the charts. Also, this thing gives you the water temperature every 5' to the depth you had it, so you can also find the thermocline with it. Tie it to a line and sinker, drop it to the bottom, then read the temperature every 5 &#8216; to the bottom, the biggest jump in temperatures will be it. I guess you could also gage your fishfinder with it, to make sure it shows the correct depth.

Here are some examples from my scrap book that I used to write adjustments on every once in a while:

Reef Runner: 45' back - 13.4' deep 
60' back - 15.4' deep 
Jet 30: 50' back - 12' deep
75' back - 17' deep
100' back - 20' deep
125' back - 22' deep
150' back - 24' deep
175' back - 26' deep

Jet 40 with 2oz. weigh: 150' back - 45' deep
200' back - 52' deep

Tight Lines!

Fish-Crazy: Capt. Virgil D. Tent


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## Got One (May 26, 2006)

What does one of these units cost? Sounds pretty pricey!!


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## Fish-Crazy (Dec 1, 2006)

Got One said:


> What does one of these units cost? Sounds pretty pricey!!


About $ 75.00, give or take a few dolars. well worth every penny!

Tight Lines!

Fish-Crazy: Capt. Virgil D. Tent


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## Toolman (Jun 8, 2004)

Mike,

We were out there with you near the dump that "last" day. Sure seems like a long time ago! 

I thought I had "heard" that some info got transposed between charts or some such thing. I don't think the 10 will dive as deep as the chart on pg # 41 in the "PT Big Water Ed." The 10's work OK for running spinners up high, especially if you are running more than 3 per side (float it over top to the outside to set) but I don't have the patience to let 210' of line out on any presentation, if there are alternatives. I think that's why the 30 and 40 jets are more popular. You simply set shorter leads to run shallower depths. They "turn over" with smaller fish much better than 10 or 20 jets, too.

Also, I've had better luck with jets on braid than mono.

Tim


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## fbcoachfisherman (Jun 9, 2006)

Hey Tim, 

It was only about a month ago on those fish, but it seems like last year. But, in six weeks (crossing fingers) we'll be in similar circumstances as that day and then it should only get better.:B 

For sure this is bringing up some interesting thoughts. I too have used all of the jets (except the 50). I guess the point is that if you want to scrape bottom in 30' of water, you are going to have to let a lot of line out to do it regardless of what number you use.

I thought when I was marking fish at 29.9999, that when I was running my 30 jet at 100' back I was all but smacking them in the nose. It appears that it was not even close. I guess I can understand that anyone would question the bible on that one. I know when Mark comes to Bait Dave's this will be one of the first questions I ask him.

You are correct regarding braid, fireline, and wire. They will get you down a whole lot more, so that is something to consider as well. Also, know doubt conditions, water temp, etc. will be a factor.

Did you know this? At the seminar that I heard Mark talk at that Jet Divers are really primarily a Lake Erie Western Basin thing. He said that they are really only super popular in that neck of the woods. 

Next comment:

I guess if you want to scrape bottom at 30' deep then you could always use a downrigger. I had a Western Basin Charter Boat Captain tell me he uses Downriggers and will scrape the bottom with the ball. I also had someone tell me that a few years ago they had to downrigger ripped right off of their boat on Lake Erie and they did not recommend using them on Erie (I guess at least in the Western Basin). Any thoughts on that?
:T  

Mike


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## ShadRap (May 30, 2005)

I did a search with coopernic pro and the only place i could find that sold these was in the UK. I was wondering if you would be so kind to tell us where i can purchase a GTM40. Thanks


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## fugarwi7 (Sep 20, 2006)

ShadRap said:


> I did a search with coopernic pro and the only place i could find that sold these was in the UK. I was wondering if you would be so kind to tell us where i can purchase a GTM40. Thanks


From Craig at Erie Outfitters in Sheffeild Lake.


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## ShadRap (May 30, 2005)

Thank you


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## fbcoachfisherman (Jun 9, 2006)

*I couldn't wait until March, so here is a question I asked Mark Romanack at Precision Trolling via email and his response:
*
Hi Mark,

I have a question I have to ask. I have the 8th edition and the Big Water
Edition.

Regarding Jet Divers:

The 10 Jet seems to be the most versatile diver when looking at a Dive Chart.
When fishing the western basin of Lake Erie, is there really a need for me to
have a 20/30 or 40 Jet? It just seems the best jet to have is a 10.

Many times the 10 gets deeper faster. I'm shocked at the dive curves of the
20/30/40's in the Big Water edition.

Should I sell my 20's 30's and 40's?

If not, why not?

Thanks for your time.

Mike

*Here is Mark's response:*

_Mike: We get a lot of questions about the Jets because the larger ones don't go as deep as Luhr Jensen has advertised. Tradition is tough to overcome.

I personally use the 20's most of the time and the 10's in the Western basin when I'm fishing in the top 20 feet. The 30 and 40 Jets have so much buoyancy, they struggle to achieve the depth needed to fish in the Central basin. My advice is to use the smaller sizes as you can get by with them. Compare the 20's and 30's side by side and I think you'll be amazed at the results. Thanks for writing and good luck on Erie in 07.

Best fishes,

Mark Romanack_

In conclusion, it is what it is. My guess is do what is working. It sounds like if you need more depth, then you'll have to use braid, wire, dipsey's, downriggers, etc. Especially when we are in the Central Basin. I realize now that my 30's arent' scraping the bottom as originally thought and the Steelies I caught were pretty high in the water column with my 40's.

Mike


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

I purchases my GMT40 at Cabela's a few years back. They still sell them last I checked. 

I would think they would add significant weight to a Jet in attempting to determine depth at troll. I've used mine on divers with mixed results. It's really designed to give temp at depth when attached to a rigger weight. For that, it is a great tool, especially for salmon fishing. 

I guess as long as you attached it the same way every time, then you could organize your charts in a way that would make the added weight and drag of the unit negligible. I'm not here to discredit anyone...especially Virgil! LOL


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## exexec (Apr 12, 2004)

Anone other than me ever try a little weight on their jets???


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

I sure have, and to those that have not, make sure the weight is ahead of the Jet and not attached directly to it. 

If the weight is attached to the Jet you can't make it turn over and you fight the Jet and the fish all the way in. Also count 20 or more seconds before starting to bring in an outside board line with a weighted Jet, you must give them time to clear or they'll pickup inside lines every time.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

Off Cleveland and East it's common practice to use 40 jet's with 2 oz of snap weights on them, good for when fish are deeper, if you find your getting fish on the dipsey's and not on the jets you probably might not be deep enough. Or jets just aren't fireing that day which happens allot, run em and see what happens. 

20's are a great all around jet, I use them 100-150 back all the time and they work well off inlines.


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

Kevin, We ran 20s exclusively for a couple years, and they work well, but when tuned to track straight and stay out of each others way, they won't turn over easily. The 30s & 40s have a large ball in the air champer that seems to hold them inverted once they turn over, so they are actually easier to retrieve with a fish than the 20s. Give them a look.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

I fish west to east, I do run all of them 10's through 40's. when the 2003 fish were very small I tried not to run to many jets at all because of the little hitch hikers, now that they are all grown up jets are more common in my spread, I normally don't run more than 2 jets at a time anyways. On the Ranger I do not run big boards yet so I haven't had a problem with them getting in other lines ways. I do understand what your saying though, the 30's and 40's do turn over more easily that's for sure, I actually think the 30 is the most versatile jet to run, but find myself either running 20's with dipsey's it can get to 20, 30 and 40 mark depending on the line out and always turns over. 

once again as we all know, it all depends.


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## Fish-Crazy (Dec 1, 2006)

BFG said:


> I purchases my GMT40 at Cabela's a few years back. They still sell them last I checked.
> 
> I would think they would add significant weight to a Jet in attempting to determine depth at troll. I've used mine on divers with mixed results. It's really designed to give temp at depth when attached to a rigger weight. For that, it is a great tool, especially for salmon fishing.
> 
> I guess as long as you attached it the same way every time, then you could organize your charts in a way that would make the added weight and drag of the unit negligible. I'm not here to discredit anyone...especially Virgil! LOL



From reading the manual, it states that it shouldnt have any effect on the diver. Regardless if it does or not, I charted all my divers with it. How I use this tool to help me is like this:

Say I fish six dipseys and Im marking fish 30 foot down. Using my self made charts, I stagger my six dipseys from 20' to 28', with each one at a different depth, and I do adjust if Im not running at 2 mph. Say I get a fish on my port, 125' back, # 3 setting. I send it back out 125' with the GTM. It shows me it runs at 22' down. Then I take the # 0 dipsey on the starboard side and use the GTM to set it at 22', I might also change spoons to match. Now, depending on what happens next, I start setting all the dipseys to the depth I am catching the fish. It is not that important if I am actually running at 22', but with the GTM, I can bring all my dipseys into the depth range that the fish are biting. In this example, I will find out that I will be catching fish within a certain column of water depth, be it 17'-22', 20'-25', or 22'-27', or whatever it might be.

More important, to my surprise, I found out the 125' out on my starboard side, # 3 setting will run at 25' instead of 22'. Fact is, that I ran into similar differences of up to 10'. The factors for this are numerous and irrelevant. What is relevant, is that I know I have a difference and that the GTM helps me adjust to it.

Dont worry, Im not replying because I felt offended in any way, but you see how I use it to help me, and why I strongly recommand it?

Tight Lines!

Fish-Crazy: Capt. Virgil D. Tent


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## fugarwi7 (Sep 20, 2006)

Nice post Virgil...Wow, now that is methodical! Makes my hair-brained attempts to set a spread seem, well, hair-brained. I just adjust my lines to the line counter read-out if I hook up on a particluar rod, then slowly dial in from there using only my line counters. I seriously doubt I am getting each rig as close to the same using my method as opposed to yours. Could be the difference between a few and many fish, especially if they are narrowly stacked in the water column. Regardless of which method I and others use, your post is extremely clear and informative and demonstrates a more precise way on how to zero in on a certain depth (or range if you will). With all due respect to the many great fishermen on here, that is one of the most informative explanations I've read on OGF. Thank you for the lesson...I know I appreciate it!


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## ERIE REBEL (Jan 28, 2006)

Man this has really gotten deep.And i am not talking water here.I also have been to Mark's seminars and I totally trust the bible.Mark and his crew put a lot of time and effort into the books and have never steered me wrong.THANKYOU MARK!!!!


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

i have a silly question. i just read several post saying that you men add weight to jets to achieve more depth or the 30's & 40's won't dive as deep as advertised.seems there's a lot of questions about jets... my question is why mess with these at all? why not just run dips? is it a cost thing? i know jets are cheeper than dipseys but not by much. im thinking maybe the dipseys pull too much to be effective on in-lines. just wondering. i have 2 of each jet and i don't remember ever using them because the dipseys always caught fish and why mess with something that's not broke? just asking


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## exexec (Apr 12, 2004)

I happen to like the big boards and use jets with em-just easier for my mates! Now do I understand this correctly-I could probably get away with 30 jets only-run em short fro shallow fish and then all way down very deep with weights added?


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## fishon (Apr 20, 2004)

sounded like a cheap plug to me.... here is one...


I do mortgage loans....call me.....

Ok.. all seriousness now.... i heard the best way(which is also the most time consumming) to truley find how far(deep) your stuff is running is to find a true sand bar or area and run you gear @ diffent depths and speeds and once you set up(bait) or diving apparatis hits the sand ... ya know exaclty how deep its running..... sounds old school but im sure its effective..... only problm i see is mabey losing a lures or too or scraping paint....

Can one of the Pro's chime in here...on this topic!

frank


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

Kevin, I think this is the same gizmo a buddy of mine bought a while back. He was pretty excited about it, but the added resistance that the thing puts into the system has to cause some deviation, and it was a hastle to work with (too much time spent, sending it out .... waiting for it to get to depth ... then bringing it back in). I honestly don't think he used it last year. 

Maybe I should keep my yap shut, 'cause I'm not positive it's exactly the same item.

But if not it works the same.


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

All i can say to virgils last post is wow. 

From there Frank the way you said to do you depth is a good way but on erie current changes your depth along with speed etc. I can tell you some things from my own experiences . On my big boat with big boards when im trolling the bar in the summer with harnesses. A jet 40 190 back is hitting bottom or close enough to get zebra mussels on them in 42 to 43 ft of water. So take that for what its worth. I personally think when you are open water trolling that if you get in a range of depth that the fish are in then youll catch plenty of fish. thats why i dont think a couple feet here and there is that important as long as your above them . now there are excpetions to that rule and that would be if the fish are holding tight to structure or they are right on the bottom and in a negative mood. 

I had a buddy that gave me a chart with all the jets and dipseys on it with depth and speed and i can honeslty say that the chart is really close to being accurate most of the time hence the above jet 40 example above. 
Which by the way is quite different from what the big water book says but thats not to say thats not a great book because it is. 

All i can say is that every boat is different and reels are different and speeds are different and all you can do is keep trying and working things out until you get in the zone and start putting fish in the box. If its broke fix it and never give up thats my motto take care guys Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## fishingguy (Jan 5, 2006)

After all that reading, I still don't know how deep my stinger spoon is behind a jet 30, 50' behind a 2 oz. snap weight with another 125' out attached to a inline board, 75' out from the boat in a rod holder set at 67 degress off the port side, going 2.6 mph {gps} with a following 2' sea, with my shoes off and my ankles bleeding from the friggan flies, oh wait? DANGIT!!! I forgot to put the gel on on the spoon! Gonna have to reel in and reset!


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## fbcoachfisherman (Jun 9, 2006)

I didnt' mean to fire everyone up. Hopefull all will work out well. One thing I've noticed with fishing forums is that some pretty intense debates can be created and sometimes they can get pretty personal. I wish we could avoid that. One of my old faithfuls "walleye.com" is nearly dead for reports because of situations like this and people have moved on. Ohio Game Fishing is a great informational site and hopefully it will flourish.

I think it is important to remember some things when it concerns emails and forums:

*you can never tell tone, be careful not to interpret what someone is saying. As an AD I won't accept emails from parents anymore because I and they can't interpret tone and it is so much easier to get harsh on a keyboard. Just be careful.

*this forum is for sharing, everyone is never going to agree on everything, try and keep the personal level out of it. If I love Michigan Stinger Spoons and you love PA Spoons. What is the big deal. This is what I think, that is what you think. I still love you man!

*no one wants to steal a "honey hole" or other secrets - but it is nice to get some good info and advice before we leave home for the Lake which is an hour and half for me and way more for others.

I guess the teacher and football coach comes out in me to help other people. If I'm lucky enough to catch fish, I'll let anybody share in the spot (even at the time) and the how to, all you have to do is ask. (I've been known to broadcast it over the radio before) All the years I have fished I have never not gotten to little fish to eat. Even on a :S day I love the water. (granted I'm not paid to do this for a living and the pressure is much less for me).

My biggest hope is that two friends can work this out. I don't know how old you all are, but I'm 43 and I don't have that many more years to fish and after that is over not a whole lot of this will even matter. But, a good friendship will last to the grave and beyond. 

I still don't know if I should sell my 30's and 40's.:T How can you not love fishing?

Hoping the love is strong!

Mike


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

fishingguy said:


> After all that reading, I still don't know how deep my stinger spoon is behind a jet 30, 50' behind a 2 oz. snap weight with another 125' out attached to a inline board, 75' out from the boat in a rod holder set at 67 degress off the port side, going 2.6 mph {gps} with a following 2' sea, with my shoes off and my ankles bleeding from the friggan flies, oh wait? DANGIT!!! I forgot to put the gel on on the spoon! Gonna have to reel in and reset!


 I'd put it between 37 & 42'. But that assumes you've calibrated your reels and tuned your Jet, and your running either 30# braid or 10# mono. Gota luv it.


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## fishingguy (Jan 5, 2006)

Thanks Jim, I did forget the line diameter, {what a rookie}, and I also forgot to mention that it was a semi cloudy day with the moons pull at 78 percent of it's normal gravitational specs.. This should allow the jet to dive an extra 3.625' depending however, on the sunbursts that could change the finding on the Eisenstinean chart. Pg. 341 in my most recent physics book. Again, sorry for my lapse of memory.


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

LOL I give!!!


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## fishingguy (Jan 5, 2006)

Just thinking we all need to lighten up a bit. Hope noone takes offense to my humor, just thought we all could use a laugh. Not looking forward to going out and shoveling, barely could open the door to let the dogs out.


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

hey i give too ill use dynamite lol gary


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

your sense of humor is appreciated thats what makes us get through times like this gary


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## shark59er (Jun 25, 2005)

Well, I spent half the morning reading this thread which I thought was about Jets and depth. I don't care who has the biggest boat or who beat who to the honey hole, I just want to go fishing. Let's get back to business here and keep all the


> spittwads


 out of it. 
I'm still interested in learning about the jets, type and test of line, added weights and how to attach them to achieve the depth you are after. I fish the reefs and island areas until about the middle of June and then I like to fish the Ruggles area.

Shark


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

Sharkr i hope what i posted helps ya out feel free to ask all the qusetions you want gary zart blue dolphin


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## shark59er (Jun 25, 2005)

blue dolphin said:


> Sharkr i hope what i posted helps ya out feel free to ask all the qusetions you want gary zart blue dolphin


Yes it has really opened my eyes to the characteristics of the jet. The old saying "it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks" is where I'm coming from. By the time I get to the water, I've forgotten everything I've read here, LOL. I am interested on what type weights, size, how and where they are attached. I've used the dipsy quite a bit but not the jet and I'm not sure why you would add weight to a jet when you could use the dipsy to get the same results, or maybe I'm totally wrong and you don't get the same results. Anyway, there is a lot of good info in this thread and I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to it.

Shark


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## fbcoachfisherman (Jun 9, 2006)

Bob,

Mamma nature smacked us hard. Yes snow day #6 for us. You know what that means? Make-up days. Now I'll have to dip into the personal days. I'm guessing having a teachers schedule I doubt I can drum up much sympathy. Should start a pool on the first day of ice out, eh? I'm gonna say 3/16/07 A month from now we'll start smiling a little more. We'll be able to troll for those hogs and I'll have half the drive of Huron.

Hopefully those NE Gales didn't screw up the ice fishing for everyone, but I'd bet it isn't good. Next Tuesday starts a warming trend upward. As an AD I know that tournament basketball and state wrestling begin to show the beginning of the end for harsh winter time and the trend for temperatures to go up begins. 

:T It's coming!

Erie Rebel? Did you get your technology issues worked out? I'm ready to learn how to use those keel weights! Jets aren't an issue for those.

*For What it is Worth*

For water 30' or less I'm going to concentrate on 10 & 20 Jets. For water deeper than 30 I'm going to use Dipseys and hopefully downriggers (I'm getting ready to make the leap)

Life is Good
Mike


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

Your right Tim,

I wrote this at the end. 

Sorry OGF skip over it and read on what this site is really for, FISHING. 

I am one of the first erie guys to offer opinions and to tell people what I do on the water to boat fish and always try to contribute good solid techniques, numbers etc.. I apologize once again for stooping down to address ............. post. I hope OGF can accept my appology.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

This "GMT" thingy has me curious. Could someone post the exact name of it so I can look into it a little deeper (find one).

I've searched Cabelas, but cannot find anything that matches.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Gentlemen,

In an attempt to save the useful information in this thread for everyone I feel compelled to clean this thread up somewhat. 

I really hate to perform any moderating, but feel that it is necessary in this instance. I am an equal opportunity deleter , anything not pertinent to this thread is going away. Nothing against any one or two individuals, just cleaning it all up. 

Everyone can get a little excited at times and forget why we are all here. 

I appreciate everyone getting this thread back on the subject.

Thanks for everyones understanding,

Kim


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

Het, I too looked for it, It's made by Shakespere I guess, I found a company in the UK. I talked to some people about it, it doesn't really work that well at all. Save you 75 bucks and hit the beach with your jets and cranks. 

Dean Clifton compiled a jet chart that can still be found on the WBSA site, he said it has been refined over and over and it's the best he could come up with I keep it on the boat with me, that old timer slayed eyes like it was his job I loved his site and advice. well still do like it, Marc and Travis do a good job, I report to them when I can. 

I will take a screen shot and post it, give me a few minutes, he did the same for dispey's.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Steve, Cabelas sold one called the Fish Finder . I think it is the same thing.Thought it was made by Normark ?
Bob


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## exexec (Apr 12, 2004)

I use only the big boards and thus cannot use the bigger dipsey's off the boards -so I have to use jets. The added weight will get a jet deeper than the chart shows. I know one guy who uses only 30 jets.. W/O weights earlier in the season then he adds weight to get deeper than 40 jets during the hotter days. I hope that clarifies that question. ( BTW I also use dipseys sometime)


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## shark59er (Jun 25, 2005)

Here's another posted by Dean Clifton on dipsys. 
I realize this is from the Luhr Jensen's tech sheet but some folks may not have seen it.

Shark


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## ERIE REBEL (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't know Mike trying now.


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## ERIE REBEL (Jan 28, 2006)

Well Mike it looks like I'm back in buisness.Yeah we can do the Keel sinker deal anytime.One of the reason I like them is the short line out compared to jets.Later guy.


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## fbcoachfisherman (Jun 9, 2006)

I was worried about you Rebel. You have too much to contribute to be down for the count. 

How many feet of snow has to melt in front of the door to get the Rebel out?

Lundy,

Thanks for the clean-up. Everyone loses their cool from time to time. No hard feelings to anyone. Hopefully, we can all have a big hug and get back to teaching and learning. 

This is the best sight out there. Keep it going!!!

mike


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

Hetfieldinn said:


> This "GMT" thingy has me curious. Could someone post the exact name of it so I can look into it a little deeper (find one).
> 
> I've searched Cabelas, but cannot find anything that matches.


 Here's a link:
http://www.franksgreatoutdoors.com/item.asp?id=12496
Later, Jim


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

shark59er said:


> . I've used the dipsy quite a bit but not the jet and I'm not sure why you would add weight to a jet when you could use the dipsy to get the same results, or maybe I'm totally wrong and you don't get the same results. Shark



my thoughts exactly


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

I guess you can say there is a time and a place for everything you have to consider your spread first and formost. what is the best and most effective way to target fish you want to catch and what are they biting on. 

if you are running a large boat say 23 and up, chances are you may have 3-5 anglers on the boat that means you can run up to 10 lines, you can't run 10 dipsey's so in order to maxize your efforts you need to run more lines and they have to be something you can run on a inline, downrigggers, and or big boards. 

My friend who I often fish with Peerless has a 30 foot baha cruiser, in summer off Cleveland out typical spread would be 2 or 4 riggers, and two dispeys per side, then we still have some wiggle room if we area allowed to run more. I will often run a couple 40 jet 150-200 back running with no boards, or I will run two deep cranks with snap weights off inline boards. sometimes we will run 2 dipsey's per side then run 4 jets off each side, if you can run a bunch of lines you have to figure out what is effective on that given day. 
I have ran cranks and jets off big boards also, the possiblities are endless when you can run a large spread. 

I have been other boats when it's 3 dipsey's per side, then 2 riggers, and 2 jets of each side off big boards, if more fish are being caught on one type of presentation we may switch up and go 3 jets per side with only 2 dipsey's per side. 

I guess what I am trying to say is no technique is better than the rest just different, the action a jet gives a spoon is different from what a jet provides, same with running a shallow short lip crank then a deep diver at the same depth, say Husky's for example sometimes they want the slow roll rather than the wobble, so a shallow blue/chrome might be better than a deep blue/chrome ran at the same depth side by side, action plays a huge roll in what walleye want, never overlook any detail on any fish you catch ever. That walleye bit your bait for one reason or another figure out the varibles and re-aply on the next pass and see what happens. patterns will evlove if you pay attention. 

It all depends. I think it's become a cliche to say that by now. but it's 100% the truth, that is what seperates good fisherman from Excellent consistant fisherman to know when to change presentation, how and when, I have been out when one thing will be good in the morning then something else fires really good mid afternoon and early evening. That's why the walleye is known as elusive, couldn't be more true. Nobody said it was easy, lots of trial and error, screwing up, listening, watching, paying close attention to detail and years of on the water experience all plays a roll in how good your boat does on any given day.


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## shark59er (Jun 25, 2005)

exexec said:


> I use only the big boards and thus cannot use the bigger dipsey's off the boards -so I have to use jets. The added weight will get a jet deeper than the chart shows. I know one guy who uses only 30 jets.. W/O weights earlier in the season then he adds weight to get deeper than 40 jets during the hotter days. I hope that clarifies that question. ( BTW I also use dipseys sometime)


I can see why you would have to use jets in that setup. It's starting to make a little sense to me. With the boards you are getting the jets out away from the boat and with the weight, getting it deeper. I've tried the dipsys on every setting and I don't see much if any change in getting it away from the boat.

BTW, what kind of weights do you use and how far in front of the jets?

Shark


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

If you pop a dipsey on a 3 1/2 setting and yank it fast to the surface you will see that is is way far away from the boat, believe me the settings work well. I run 1 1/2 and 3 1/2 when I run two per side, never had a tangle and both settings catch fish all the time. 

yes that is the point of a jet off big boards get those suckers away from the boat, one of my buddies runs 20's and 30's no less than 150-200 back off boards and he runs his boards way off to the side, the further the better expecially in super clear water.


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## exexec (Apr 12, 2004)

Shark I will add and an or two at the most and right at the front of the jet on the mainline-I hope that explains it.


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

shark59er said:


> I can see why you would have to use jets in that setup. It's starting to make a little sense to me. With the boards you are getting the jets out away from the boat and with the weight, getting it deeper. I've tried the dipsys on every setting and I don't see much if any change in getting it away from the boat.
> 
> BTW, what kind of weights do you use and how far in front of the jets?
> 
> Shark


Shark,
It might not appear that those dipsey's are running away from the boat, but they are actually spaced out fairly well. If you're running on a straight course it's more evident they're tracking away from the boat and are not so close to one another. If you're zig-zagging, they do seem to cross over one another but they still will have good spacing between them. 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Rod holder positioning as it relates to settings on a dipsey spread.


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## eyesman_01 (Jan 4, 2007)

OK Hook, you brought it up... rod positioning?


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

shark59er said:


> I've tried the dipsys on every setting and I don't see much if any change in getting it away from the boat.
> 
> Shark



You'd be surprise how far away from the boat they get. I know I was. I was trolling parallel to a net one day. I was a good, safe distance from it, or so I thought. My Dipsy set on 3 got tangled in it. I don't remeber exactly how far from the net I was, but I thought I had plenty of room.


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## fugarwi7 (Sep 20, 2006)

eyesman_01 said:


> OK Hook, you brought it up... rod positioning?


I can't wait for this info...always wondered about this...not just with dips, but inline boards as well. And just so we don't stray too far away from this thread on jets, any known affect on them due to rod positioning?


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

Here's the way we do it. For Dipsys the holders are only about 10" apart. We run the Dipsy rods nearly horizontal to the water, the front (#4 or outside holder) is around 12 degrees above horizontal and just slightly forward of perpendicular to the boat (kicked up and forward a little), the #3 is 8 degrees above horizontal and perpendicular to the boat, the #2 is 4 degrees above horizontal and angled a smidge to the rear, the #1 is horizontal to the water, and kicked a bit further back. The effect is to provide just enough seperation at the rod tips to allow for easy rod removal. 

Keeping the rod tips close together makes reading the rods much easier. If they are only 12 "s apart and any rod tip moves 2", it's quite abvious.

The board or Jet rod rack is 18" ahead of the Dipsy rod rack. With the same 10" between the holders, and a slight more exagerated flair or spred on the rods. The High or outside rod is verticle, and each successive holder is kicked down 5 degrees and back 5 degrees. Again the rod tips being fairly close together helps in reading rods. 

This set up is on a 32" Marinette Grand Sportsman with a raised deck and the gunnel at least 4' above the warer line. For small or lower boats the Dipsy rod holder would have to be raised to keep the rod tips out of the water.

This is our way and works well for us. I'm sure this is a problem with many correct answers.

Good luck and good fishing.


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## eyesman_01 (Jan 4, 2007)

18' sterndrive w/kicker, normally 2, but as many as 4 people fishing. How many rod mounts (or at least bases) on each side? Any across the back,on say a rail mount, for longlining snap weights or jets straight back.


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

I never suggest rod holders across the back. That area is for landing fish. 

4 guys - 8 rods , could be easily done with 2 4plex holders. Thats the way I do it on my tournament boats.

Again... many right answers to this question.

good luck & good fishing


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## fugarwi7 (Sep 20, 2006)

Hook N Book said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Rod holder positioning as it relates to settings on a dipsey spread.


Hook, what exactly did you mean by this statement? I assume you have some knowledge about the impact of rod position, front to back and also angle from the gunnel or similar relationship above water, etc... that may affect how a diver tracks...please share if you would.

I understand Jim's methods and benefits of each, but I would like to hear you input as it relates to you comment, since you brought it up. Thanks.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

rod holders..hummm, im sure we could start a whole new thread on this subject.

here's what i run. 1st always 2 riggers. then 2 rod holders in each gunwale (flush mount), the farthest back pointing straight out the rear (dipsey on 1.5). the front one is angled about 45 degs out from the back (dipsey 3.5). if im running 8 rods (not often) i have 2 rail mounted also in front of those that point out to 90 degs. then i adjust the dipseys acordingly. as far as the angle to the water?? is whatever the angle of a flush mount rod holder is as you can see im a dipsey man. they been very, very good to me!! this system works great for me because once i find fish i do quick turns and just keep picking them out of the school until we limit or can't find them any longer. it's usually the limit first. i love the flush mount because i can read my rods much better with the tip pointing up. those ones that lay horizonal to the water. tried those and didn't like them. even lost a rod with one, fish hit and the rod bounced then was gone..(that was my fault because i didn't lock it in) that was my main reason for switching to flush mounts. expensive lesson but now it seemed worth it. like i said im sure we could run a whole new thread on rod holders. i'm just letting you know what works for me


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## LakeErieSportFishing (Feb 14, 2007)

Differences Between Jet Divers and Mini Discs
Jet divers from Luhr Jensen are the hottest new dive planner on the Lake Erie Charter Docks out of Monroe Michigan. These divers dive to a specific depth when trolled. They just produce a different action on the spoon, said Captain Ron Levitan of R & D Charters.


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

fugarwi7 said:


> Hook, what exactly did you mean by this statement? I assume you have some knowledge about the impact of rod position, front to back and also angle from the gunnel or similar relationship above water, etc... that may affect how a diver tracks...please share if you would.


Surely, I brought it up because I feel it's important to the basic question that was originally ask (I think). Prime example being JIm's explanation of the setup on a 32 ftr. were the lines are ran low to the water line.
I prefer to run rods higher in the holders, subsequently having a little more line out above the surface which affects the depth of the bait. By doing it this way you do have to compensate for the higher rod tip.
I usually run two dipey's and a board per side with the outside rod's being a jet or mini-diver/board in a holder that is at about a 45 degree angle and perpendicular to the gunwale. These are ran furthest from the boat. The number two on either side would be a dipesy on a 2-1/2-3 setting slightly lower and clocked about 45 degrees aft. Depending on how many's aboard, the inside rods will run down the shoot on a 0-1 setting straight out the back or on the sides set at a lower angle than the two in front and then another off the stern straight down the shoot.
So it's pretty much the same but the rod tips are spaced quite a bit further apart. My reasoning being is that this gets a little more distance between the divers and hopefully creates less tangles...!


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Hook N Book said:


> So it's pretty much the same but the rod tips are spaced quite a bit further apart. My reasoning being is that this gets a little more distance between the divers and hopefully creates less tangles...!


thanks hook, i forgot to mention that we don't tangle running rods like this, even when doing tight turns. we will cross lines when turning but as soon as you do straighted the boat and let the lines pull straight again, turn some more till crossed, straighted out by then you've done a 180 and headed back towards the fish.


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

Jets perform best when tuned, just like a crank bait. Having no line tie eye to adjust, our first option is trying at reform the duo-lock snap, which is a tuff way to accomplish the task. 

A much easier way is to replace the snap with a #14 connecting link, (that's the one with a big loop at one end). Then it's quite easy to rack the link and get that Jet that's not getting to depth and trying to tangle the one beside it to run true.

This connecting link is availabke from Jann's Netcraft pg 15 item #335-505-014, 25 for 2.23 or 100 for 7.56.

One other thing we do to eliminate the problem of a Jet not wanting to dive, is bevel the edge of the hole for the snap or connector. This eliminates the bind that can be troublesome.

Hope this helps, and good fishing.


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## eyeballs (May 1, 2005)

thanks coach, I have a trolling book but it is several years old and they do not discuss jet divers....those are some real interesting fact on the 30-40 divers


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