# Fish kill by Stupidity



## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

I got fired from managing my club pond. Internal politics. I brought this pond back from near dead in two years, worked it for three. I guess they thought it was good and anyone could manage it. 

I was at the club when one of the building and lands guys asks me when the aerator should be turned on. This system is a bit aggressive. I told him now and explained to him that it had to be brought up slow. 15 minutes twice a day for two days, then 30 minutes, then 1 hour and so on. Just like I did for two years.

He turned it on on a Tuesday, and left it run continuously. On the following Saturday I walked around it and saw hundreds of small dead bluegills in the shallows. This was 5 days after he turned it on so I don't know how big the kill was. 

Before he did that I could walk around the pond and see many many small fish of different types. I walked around it twice yesterday, I saw nothing. Of course they haven't done anything with the algae growing in it so my view is limited. 

Stupid, just plain stupid.


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## FISNFOOL (May 12, 2009)

garryc said:


> Internal politics.


I have been involved with many clubs for outdoors, and other things.

I always found it strange that if you volunteer as a club officer, some in the regular members ship then consider you a member of the "click" that controls the club. But the real "click" that every club seems to have eventually resents this official outsider telling them how things need to be done for efficiency of use of club funds, or for the expertise on a particular subject.

Now if your club wants to restock, it is a expense that could have been prevented. All because of the Internal politics.

YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

The timing sounds about right but I've never heard of this actually happening to someone and would think it would be even less likely this time of year.

If I remember correctly, you were pretty diligent about removing weeds and the aerator ran most of last year.

I have to admit, I usually go 2,4,8 hrs then full on.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

I staged it up and down. Starting at 45 degrees it goes on real slow. This pond has a bunch of trees away from it, and it in sunk down some. It gets no real wind action. The windmill is set at 3 feet, just to keep a hole in the ice. 

The fish were fine and lively, lots of them, the day he turned it on. I watched them feeding. I watched bass catch small gills. The only thing that happened is that the aerator was switched on and allowed to run full tilt from scratch, and some Aquashade was put in.

The pond is old, 50 years of detritus in the bottom. We have increased the depth by 20 inches so far just by aeration. Algae is a constant problem, but I raked it out weekly. 

One event was the precursor to the kill, logic says it was that one event. From strong and thriving to lots of dead that fast, after what he did. I never did that, I nursed that pond.

Kinda makes me mad really.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

I am more apt to believe an over application of Aquashade did the harm more then the aerator....I turned my aerator on full bore once temps hit about 55 or so ( about 2 weeks ago)and have not had any problems at all in the last 3 years I did this...

Salmonid


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## ClickerCrazy (Feb 4, 2006)

We've had alot of people, well, 5 or 6, calling in and saying that they lost all their small bluegill, but nothing else. Even tested the water, but everything looked good. We figured it might have something with the water down here, heating up so fast. This was about 3 weeks ago. Haven't had any other calls since that time.


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## willyb021 (Jun 1, 2009)

That's a shame carelessness ruined something uve worked hard on for years. That sucks


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

Salmonid said:


> I am more apt to believe an over application of Aquashade did the harm more then the aerator....I turned my aerator on full bore once temps hit about 55 or so ( about 2 weeks ago)and have not had any problems at all in the last 3 years I did this...
> 
> Salmonid


Salmonid, I'm curious as to why you think Aquasdade did the damage? I put a half gallon in my 1/2 acre pond last week with out any problems. (kinda has me worried now). Do you think that the pond he was taking care of had trouble because it was 50 yrs old and had a lot of "detritus" in the bottom? And do you think maybe the aerator stirred some gases up in the pond?


Or one more thing... Do you think fertilizer around the pond or "weed killer" could have caused this?

garryc, Were they using any fertilizer or "weed killer" (as in RoundUp) around the pond?


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

I think what Mark is inferring is that adding the Aquashade can cause a dip in DO as it blocks light waves needed for photosythynsis and in combination with mixing low DO water (low DO at the bottom due to decaying organic matter) with adequate DO water may have simply dropped 02 limits throughout the now mixed water column coupled with possible stress from a temp swing brough on by mixing and it may have been enough to result in a fish kill. Each alone may have been OK but together was more than pond/fish could handle.

Hang loose, you don't have anything to worry about. Just avoid trying to do all the pond maintenance in one day...do it in steps a few days apart. For example: get the aerator going, wait a few days, apply the algaecide wait a week or so, then apply aquashade if needed.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I think what Mark is inferring is that adding the Aquashade can cause a dip in DO as it blocks light waves needed for photosythynsis and in combination with mixing low DO water (low DO at the bottom due to decaying organic matter) with adequate DO water may have simply dropped 02 limits throughout the now mixed water column coupled with possible stress from a temp swing brough on by mixing and it may have been enough to result in a fish kill. Each alone may have been OK but together was more than pond/fish could handle.
> 
> Hang loose, you don't have anything to worry about. Just avoid trying to do all the pond maintenance in one day...do it in steps a few days apart. For example: get the aerator going, wait a few days, apply the algaecide wait a week or so, then apply aquashade if needed.


I never put Aquashade in like that. I would start just after ice out and apply a cup at a time, about every 6-10 days or so. It never hurts to do things to a pond slow and easy. Start the aeration slow and easy, put in the Aquashade slow and easy. It's just too easy to shock a pond this time of year. I baby that pond.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

I've heard you're not a real pond manager until you've killed a couple of thousand fish...your successor is getting an early start. I guess it's better it happened now than after you grew a bunch of 10lb bass.

It's sad to see your hard work go down the tubes but you've certainly learned a lot along the way. Hopefully you'll get a chance to apply this knowledge to your own pond in the near future...your own fish don't practice politics.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

[email protected],I get a lot of wind action from the fields around my pond. I do not aerate because of some of the colder water fish I have in the pond. Never had a fish kill. The blue heron has killed more fish than anything. But I will not use fertilizer anywhere near the pond.

Thank god I'm not a "real pond manager" yet. Sounds like that job is a pain in the "bass".

I've never had any problem with aquashade the way I apply it. But I did go out and check the pond just to make sure...Everything A.O.K.

garryc, How do the "pond managers" like you now? I'm still curious if you guys think the aquashade caused the fish kill.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Hang loose, I've used Aquashade at the same rate as you without killing fish at times with and without aeration. The label more or less says to dump in the recommended dose at the edge of the water. I've never heard of anyone adding the recommended dose of Aquashade and causing a fish kill. Can Aquashade contribute to a fish kill? Maybe, but there would be other contributing factors as I described. Keep the bloom and weeds under control, keep snow cover to a minimum and you should be fine. As far as fertilizer goes, phosphorus/phosphates are the big ones to keep out.

GarryC's pond has several issues. I don't think the Aquashade caused the fishkill but it's possible it contributed just as easily as it was helping. It's pretty hard sitting behind a computer miles away to determine what caused the fish kill. It's hard enough standing by a pond with bunch of floaters and usually your still never 100% sure of the cause. I was simply passing along information to contemplate.

Personally, I don't like the look of Aquashade, my wife does though so you probably know how that works out most of the time. It's a pond, not a swimming pool. I have a bit a of problem with the fact that it can reduce planktonic algae as this is essentially reducing food. Also, while making the pond less favorable for light loving plants it can actually make it more favorable shade loving plants. I don't have any hardcore data to back this up so take it for what it's worth.

I swear it makes it harder to catch fish too...but this may be my fishing skills too.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

I think what you guys are missing is that the aeration is very aggressive. This pond is 60 feet by 165 feet and 9 foot deep. The aerators are completely capable of flipping the pond very quickly. I have 3.8 cfm into two diffusers each having two nine inch micro bubble units. It works well, very well, and the sludge is reducing quickly. Before I started you could see the sludge, leaves on the bottom that would not decayed. No more, the bottom looks great.

Algae needs regular attention due to the farm field next to it, weekly reduction with a rake and remove the algae from the water body. The other members half azz that, rake it up on the bank and leave it so the nutrients go back into the water. Removing it and hauling it away removes the nutrients from the system forever. They can't seem to get that through their heads. Last year the farmer lime stoned his field, which frees up phosphorus, and it rained almost constantly. Massive filamentous algae growth. The year before it was all chara. Right now there is a great deal of algae along the sides and in some areas 20 feet out from the shore. I consider that both a curse and a blessing, because the nutrients are locked into that algae and I can remove it, or I could if I was still on that job.

Slap this hillbilly in the face and the last thing he is going to do is bow and say "Yes Sir" I've been a hillbilly my whole life and a corrections officer these last 20 years, it's just not in my nature. 

Since the fish i saw had obviously been dead for days, right after he turned it on to run constantly, I think I know what happened. He flipped the pond to fast. He dropped the O2 levels and mixed in toxic gases from the bottom far too fast. That killed the fish. And no, I don't believe in coincidences. 

Because the aeration is so aggressive I nursed it into operation. Very slow, very easy, over better than two weeks. I NEVER SAW A SINGLE DEAD FISH AND THE POND THRIVED!! It was thriving before he did that, then this, what is the logical conclusion?

As far as their response to me. No returns on my E-Mails. Just dead air. Of course the president is po'd at me because I pointed out to him that dumping many tons of lead contaminated dirt in a flood plain ( He's attempting to recover bullets from the backstop) and having it wash down the creek last spring is a bit on the illegal side. Actually a violation of state and federal law. So arrogant of me, just a dumb hill jack, to tell a retired NASA engineer he's wrong.

Sorry about the rant part.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

That's does sound like quite a bit of air for a 1/4 acre pond. I see what you're saying about going full on without stepping now.

Do you know how many turns per day the system was designed for or what CFM your compressor delivers at operating PSI?


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> That's does sound like quite a bit of air for a 1/4 acre pond. I see what you're saying about going full on without stepping now.
> 
> Do you know how many turns per day the system was designed for or what CFM your compressor delivers at operating PSI?



Going by really really rough math and going by the manufactures figures I am looking at a turn over of the volume in 1.3 hours. Of course it isn't that efficient in real world. Yet I have no turbidity at all. All summer I check temps at all levels, the temps are uniform throughout the entire column. 

Before I put this system in I sampled the bottom by dragging a bucket across and getting a sample. It was just plain black muck and stank really bad. There was no life in it that I could see. Not the case now. It is brown and there are plenty of shelled things in it and these really small thread like worms. That is why I put redears in to fill that niche and why I figure the bluegills grow so fast. The fish are fat for their length, even the dead ones. I say the bass are couch potatoes because they are plump. 

I put in six standing Christmas trees that go from the bottom to near the top, they are in a cluster. There are 4 more trees laying on their side in a line from that cluster to the shallows that have brush along them. In that standing tree cluster you can always catch some nice gills, and running a small crank bait along that line always produces some good bass. 

The tree line and cluster is halfway between the two diffusers. I did that because I figure that would be the maximum flow area with the diffusers working against each other. My theory was that the flow would drive zoo-plankton into the cover and feed the small fish. It seemed to work great. Also though, the dead fish I found were in a small cove and along the bank near the end of that line.

I put in a triangle shaped pallet stack by tying those pallets together. I tied brush to them and pulled them into the pond. Fish magnet there. I also put some pallet stacks in shallow water in two locations. To those I tied pieces of 4" corrugated pipe and put a small amount of brush on top. That was spawn structure for fatheads. I released 20 pounds of fatheads in the pond two years ago. I placed traps near those pallets and caught a good number of very small fat heads, indicating that they were spawning. 

The bio load from the fish is high, I know that. PH always ran from 7.5-7.9 from the start. This is not a "Natural" pond, it is induced to produce beyond what this size would carry in a natural setting. That is why it requires intense management. Snapping on the aeration system and rolling all that built up stuff from the winter all at once, just plain stupid. Slow and easy is the word, and watch it closely.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

I finally got asked about the pond, this is my response:



> In response to you asking how many hours the aerator should be running right now. Once it was left on the damage was done, there is no point in turning it off. Once it ran 24 hours there is no need to shut it down. The kill is actually over for the most part. How much damage is done by the unknown amount of dead fish is anybody's guess. Could it cause a disease in the pond and more fish die? Possible.
> 
> The extent of the kill is unknown. If there are dead fish in the bottom it is vital that the system be allowed to run. The decaying fish will add ammonia and nitrate to the water and the aeration will help blow it into the atmosphere at a much faster rate.
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

I was guesstimating 6-8 turns per day...which is double or quadruple what's needed so I see what you were saying about the system being "aggresive". 

Did I read correctly that fish that died were mainly mid to small bluegill? Were there any larger bass in the pond?

Has the PH changed since the farmer limed his field? I mean, it sounded like you were approaching close to 8 at times, when pH get's that high, sometimes this can decrease plant growth because it makes it harder for plants to take up nutrients. Bacteria actually like the higher pH water, as due the tilapia. Going past 9, ammonia levels can spike.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I was guesstimating 6-8 turns per day...which is double or quadruple what's needed so I see what you were saying about the system being "aggresive".
> 
> Did I read correctly that fish that died were mainly mid to small bluegill? Were there any larger bass in the pond?
> 
> Has the PH changed since the farmer limed his field? I mean, it sounded like you were approaching close to 8 at times, when pH get's that high, sometimes this can decrease plant growth because it makes it harder for plants to take up nutrients. Bacteria actually like the higher pH water, as due the tilapia. Going past 9, ammonia levels can spike.


I haven't measured the PH this year so I don't know. It has always been in the high range.

I walked around the pond after dark a couple of days ago. I saw a good number of golden shiners and a few bluegills. Of course the algae prevented a good look, we are removing it this week end. 

All the dead I saw were 2-3 inch bluegills. All at the point at the end of the submerged trees. I'm thinking it was a limited kill at that location.

Sunday a lady caught a nice 13" bass, they couldn't catch any bluegills which isn't uncommon with that much algae. The bluegills just lay underneath it.

Time will tell. We are looking at putting in a filter strip between the farmers field and the pond. a trench 7 feet wide and just deeper than water level with pipes going to the pond. That we will fill with cattails and such. Hopefully it will eat some of the nutrients out of that water and filter the particulates carrying the phosphorus. I took the designed from some EPA publications that are for that purpose.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

I had this idea awhile back...thinking of a way to use excess air from an oversized aeration system. Kind of a farm pond filter. Maybe the filter strip wouldn't need to be deeper than the pond, rather the water is lifted to the filter strip level by the air pump then allowed to filter through and back into the pond. Could be used to form a wetland to attract waterfowl...may even be some grants for the club somewhere.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

I actually proposed a bog filter. The president rejected it. Some members asked me about the algae and I told them that as long as that farm field is so close and all the fill water comes from it, without bog filter, there was nothing to do but get a rake..


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

Really the only options for algae are chemical (easy, like$15/mo) or tilapia. Only two I know that work consistently. It's seasonal somewhat.

Of course manual is best but usually incomplete and very hard work.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Really the only options for algae are chemical (easy, like$15/mo) or tilapia. Only two I know that work consistently. It's seasonal somewhat.
> 
> Of course manual is best but usually incomplete and very hard work.


The tilapia are due in June. that would be 72 fish 4-6 inch long. They say they will start spawning almost as soon as the go in. these are blue tilapia. There are not very many weeds in the pond, so algae is it for them.


Let me tell you how fertile this water is. I put in some tree cuttings two years ago. They were live. A small branch sticks out of the water. It is still alive. It drops it leaves and grows new ones in spring. And yes, it is completely cut from the stump.


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## [email protected] (Dec 22, 2006)

I've always wanted to do one of those floating islands. Thought it would be cool to make a floating garden like how the chinese do it. Maybe a floating bog would work for you. I haven't come up with a cheap way to make it float that would last long term and look decent.


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## garryc (Jan 21, 2006)

They wouldn't go for that


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