# Marlin/Remington .44 mag lever not very accurate



## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

My buddy bought a 1894 .44 mag Remlin and left it with me to sight on and hunt with. I’ve tried Iron sights and quality optics, a multitude of different ammo. The best I can get is about 4 inch groups at 50 yards. I loosed up the barrel/mag band a bit and that didn’t help.
I’ve read that most factory 44 mag is .429-.430. I’ve also read that the Remlin Micro groove barrel tends to be a little big in diameter. I’d like to try some .431 lead. I’ve had no luck in finding it and I don’t reload. Anyone know where I could get some .431, either factory or is someone could reload some for me? I live between Dayton and Cincinnati. 
Thanks


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Also want to add, the gun was made in 2017 and supposedly Remington had most of their Marlin quality issues resolved by then


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

Harry1959 said:


> My buddy bought a 1894 .44 mag Remlin and left it with me to sight on and hunt with. I’ve tried Iron sights and quality optics, a multitude of different ammo. The best I can get is about 4 inch groups at 50 yards. I loosed up the barrel/mag band a bit and that didn’t help.
> I’ve read that most factory 44 mag is .429-.430. I’ve also read that the Remlin Micro groove barrel tends to be a little big in diameter. I’d like to try some .431 lead. I’ve had no luck in finding it and I don’t reload. Anyone know where I could get some .431, either factory or is someone could reload some for me? I live between Dayton and Cincinnati.
> Thanks


 Harry if there is a reputable gunsmith out around your area you might have them check it out. My buddy has one an after we took the front site down it shot good at 50 an 100 yards. I know that don't help ya I'm just saying the people that owned Remington didn't care about quality they just wanted quantity to sale. What a shame an shame on them. I hope Remington gets back to top notch products 👍


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

I did call Roberson’s in Middletown. He has been working on guns a long time. He said that he didn’t know of any fix for it. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a fix. It could just be the way they put it together. 
When you say you “took the front sight down”, are you saying that you just removed it?


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

Harry1959 said:


> I did call Roberson’s in Middletown. He has been working on guns a long time. He said that he didn’t know of any fix for it. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a fix. It could just be the way they put it together.
> When you say you “took the front sight down”, are you saying that you just removed it?


 Had to file it down but that didn't have nothing to do with grouping Have you measured the inside of the barrel to see the diameter


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

I’ve had a good bit of experience with Marlin 44s and 45/70s. When the stampede started they were all running to cabelas and buying Remlins. They were lucky to get one that didn’t have mechanical issues. I sighted 4 model 94s in by Remington, at same time was sighting in several models of Ruger in 44 and two JM Marlin 94s. I couldn’t get the Remlins to shoot even 4” at 100 with factory ammo. So I started with cast 240gr and increased bullet diameter all the way .432” my largest sizing die. That did no better. Then I shot as cast diameter which didn’t help either. To have this problem has to be in the barrel. No matter what I did it had no effect on group. The Rem 1895s -45/70s weren’t target guns but shot acceptable deer rifle accuracy at 100yds with factory 405g loads. 
The locals all using Win White box 240 JHP in their 44s. All swear by it. Most of them got rid of the Remlins and got something else. 
*** Winner in accuracy was Ruger 77/44, followed by JM 1894 , then Ruger auto and lever 44.


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

couple things come to mind. stock to receiver fitup is loose for some reason; chamber diameter over spec; headspace over max or broken/worn lucking lug; bore/land diameters over spec; barrel not straight; barrel fouled; magazine band crosspin bulge into bore; ironsight dovetail bulge into bore; Ammunition issues could contribute but if you're using factory JSP rounds probably not.


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Jim white said:


> Had to file it down but that didn't have nothing to do with grouping Have you measured the inside of the barrel to see the diameter


 I have not measured the actual diameter of rifled barrel. Unless there is another way , it looks like “slugging” the barrel with a piece of lead is how it’s done.


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

I've got an older marlin lever in 357mag(scoped), that didn't group that well (didn't spend to much time with it) so just let it sit out deer season and use the ruger 44mag, now the 350legend as a backup if needed


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Drm50 said:


> I’ve had a good bit of experience with Marlin 44s and 45/70s. When the stampede started they were all running to cabelas and buying Remlins. They were lucky to get one that didn’t have mechanical issues. I sighted 4 model 94s in by Remington, at same time was sighting in several models of Ruger in 44 and two JM Marlin 94s. I couldn’t get the Remlins to shoot even 4” at 100 with factory ammo. So I started with cast 240gr and increased bullet diameter all the way .432” my largest sizing die. That did no better. Then I shot as cast diameter which didn’t help either. To have this problem has to be in the barrel. No matter what I did it had no effect on group. The Rem 1895s -45/70s weren’t target guns but shot acceptable deer rifle accuracy at 100yds with factory 405g loads.
> The locals all using Win White box 240 JHP in their 44s. All swear by it. Most of them got rid of the Remlins and got something else.
> *** Winner in accuracy was Ruger 77/44, followed by JM 1894 , then Ruger auto and lever 44.


 I am aware that early Remlin quality was terrible. It allegedly got better with time. Shortly before buying the 44 my buddy bought a 45/70 Remlin. With the Hornady leverrevultion ammo it would almost drive nails at 100 yards. he also bought a second 45/70 Remlin and it shoots acceptable 100 yard groups. Not saying that the 44 barrel isn’t the problem , but the fact that our other later model Remlins shoot good gives me hope that I will get this one shooting better. These guns were all bought between 2016-2018


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Ol' Whiskers said:


> couple things come to mind. stock to receiver fitup is loose for some reason; chamber diameter over spec; headspace over max or broken/worn lucking lug; bore/land diameters over spec; barrel not straight; barrel fouled; magazine band crosspin bulge into bore; ironsight dovetail bulge into bore; Ammunition issues could contribute but if you're using factory JSP rounds probably not.


 Yup, have tried JSP, JHP, Leverreveolutions, the Federal Hammer Down made for lever actions. None of it shoots good. Most will constantly kill a deer at 50 yards , but IMO that’s not very good.
Sometimes the right ammo will make a difference. I have a 12 gauge Benelli sbe 2 with rifled slug barrel. I went through about 10 different kinds of ammo that would barely hit a pie plate at 100 yards. I finally found that it would shoot 3 inch groups with cheaper Federal Hydro shock sabots. I know that isn’t great, but acceptable. If I could get that at 75 yards in the 44 I’d be happy
I may need to take it to a good gunsmith or see if RUger will look at it. Since my buddy pretty much bought it for me, I d like to be able to hunt with it


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

Harry1959 said:


> Yup, have tried JSP, JHP, Leverreveolutions, the Federal Hammer Down made for lever actions. None of it shoots good. Most will constantly kill a deer at 50 yards , but IMO that’s not very good.
> Sometimes the right ammo will make a difference. I have a 12 gauge Benelli sbe 2 with rifled slug barrel. I went through about 10 different kinds of ammo that would barely hit a pie plate at 100 yards. I finally found that it would shoot 3 inch groups with cheaper Federal Hydro shock sabots. I know that isn’t great, but acceptable. If I could get that at 75 yards in the 44 I’d be happy
> I may need to take it to a good gunsmith or see if RUger will look at it. Since my buddy pretty much bought it for me, I d like to be able to hunt with it


Worth a try 👍


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

Good luck with it. Getting a modern Remlin or Remington firearm to function properly can be an effort in futility. It's really a shame what has happened to Remington. I don't understand how a company can't even make it's bread and butter guns correctly after doing it for years. How can Remington make 870's for 50 years that function flawlessly and then all of a sudden they can't properly manufacture a functioning 870?


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## ASJ (Feb 28, 2016)

Muddy said:


> Good luck with it. Getting a modern Remlin or Remington firearm to function properly can be an effort in futility. It's really a shame what has happened to Remington. I don't understand how a company can't even make it's bread and butter guns correctly after doing it for years. How can Remington make 870's for 50 years that function flawlessly and then all of a sudden they can't properly manufacture a functioning 870?


Buy'em, gut 'em, strip 'em, play on the brand name and when it comes to consumer...screw 'em.


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

I did call Ruger a few minutes ago. I knew that they would honor any warranty. They also say they have no parts and will not service any previously made Marlins. I’m fine with all that except saying they have no parts for them. That part is BS, unless they totally redesigned them….. I’m saying that’s not the case.


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## ASJ (Feb 28, 2016)

ASJ said:


> Buy'em, gut 'em, strip 'em, play on the brand name and when it comes to consumer...screw 'em.


Stanley Thermos comes to mind as well. Grandpa used one as a Railroad engineer running a route from Toledo to Chicago 12 months a year through-out the 60's and 70's. Kept his coffee hot. Now...it's cheap Chinese junk at Walmart. 

But man they play hard on what once was, but ain't even close, anymore.


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## DH56 (Dec 31, 2012)

Harry1959 said:


> My buddy bought a 1894 .44 mag Remlin and left it with me to sight on and hunt with. I’ve tried Iron sights and quality optics, a multitude of different ammo. The best I can get is about 4 inch groups at 50 yards. I loosed up the barrel/mag band a bit and that didn’t help.
> I’ve read that most factory 44 mag is .429-.430. I’ve also read that the Remlin Micro groove barrel tends to be a little big in diameter. I’d like to try some .431 lead. I’ve had no luck in finding it and I don’t reload. Anyone know where I could get some .431, either factory or is someone could reload some for me? I live between Dayton and Cincinnati.
> Thanks


I have read that some 44's have accuracy issues and there is some discussion in using the .431" jacketed 240 or 260 grain bullet that shoot well for some. There are a few custom bullet mfg's that make a lighter 240 or 250 grainer with a lot of exposed lead for .44 mag velocities.

Also the 265 grain Hornady shoots well with some 44's and I use them in my Marlin 444(Mine is the JM stamped pre Remington) as another option.

Good Luck-


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

ASJ said:


> Buy'em, gut 'em, strip 'em, play on the brand name and when it comes to consumer...screw 'em.


That is often the result when Private Equity buys from the folks that once ran a Company....and don't care about the Long Term.
Throw in offshore manufacturing....and it's a race to the Bottom.
A Company as large as GE has been through this....nonsense.
Very, very sad to see....every time.


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## berkshirepresident (Jul 24, 2013)

Unfortunately, the cost of fixing this is likely very prohibitive.
Even a new barrel under warranty (i.e. -free) will have a modest gunsmith bill to make it right.


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

I read somewhere that they didn't keep the upkeep on the machinery is the reason why a lot of this stuff isn't right. Tolerance means a lot in a firearm


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Jim white said:


> I read somewhere that they didn't keep the upkeep on the machinery is the reason why a lot of this stuff isn't right. Tolerance means a lot in a firearm


Yup, Marlins equipment was worn out when Remington took over. Also, many say that the outgoing Marlin workers were not very enthusiastic about training the new employees. Those are the reasons that the Remlin improved some after the first couple years.

wanted to add that Remington probably did Not replace worn out machinery in the later years as they filed for bankruptcy twice.


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

That makes sense. Wonder why Remington was replacing the workers that was already in place


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

Try scrubbing the barrel with a green scotch Brite pad. Then put polishing compound on a patch with a cleaning rod on a drill and polish the snot out of the barrel. I have had a few new barrels on guns that I could not get to shoot accurately at all. Doing this took the guns from being nearly worthless to some of the most accurate guns I own. It is especially effective in muzzleloaders. Worth a shot and won't hurt a thing.


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

Jim white said:


> I read somewhere that they didn't keep the upkeep on the machinery is the reason why a lot of this stuff isn't right. Tolerance means a lot in a firearm


There’s more to it than that. After Remington purchased Marlin they closed the Marlin plant. All of the machinery was disassembled, packed up, shipped, and re-assembled at a new location. This was done to consolidate and reduce costs. Most of the machinery was old, hand fitted, and had no blue prints. Once the machinery was re-assembled at the new plant it took several years to trouble shoot and refit to original specs. During this time the guns that were produced were out of spec and prone to problems.


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

Muddy said:


> There’s more to it than that. After Remington purchased Marlin they closed the Marlin plant. All of the machinery was disassembled, packed up, shipped, and re-assembled at a new location. This was done to consolidate and reduce costs. Most of the machinery was old, hand fitted, and had no blue prints. Once the machinery was re-assembled at the new plant it took several years to trouble shoot and refit to original specs. During this time the guns that were produced were out of spec and prone to problems.


OK that makes sense


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

I wish I shot that good to be able to blame the rifle for inaccuracies. Whats the trigger pull on it. around 9 lbs?


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Remington m


Popspastime said:


> I wish I shot that good to be able to blame the rifle for inaccuracies. Whats the trigger pull on it. around 9 lbs?


 I could give you some pointers if you’d like


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

A rifle has to be benched and rested to see true accuracy. Also multiple 5 shot groups. I don’t sight pistol cartridge carbines at 100yds. Mine are tuned at 60yds. dead 0. You will have people tell you it’s a waste because you don’t shoot off a rest in the woods. I have found these free hand sighters are 
always missing. The more perfect a gun is sighted from rest, the better you can shoot it off hand.


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Drm50 said:


> A rifle has to be benched and rested to see true accuracy. Also multiple 5 shot groups. I don’t sight pistol cartridge carbines at 100yds. Mine are tuned at 60yds. dead 0. You will have people tell you it’s a waste because you don’t shoot off a rest in the woods. I have found these free hand sighters are
> always missing. The more perfect a gun is sighted from rest, the better you can shoot it off hand.


 Yup, have to be on a bench, sandbags if you want precision, which I do if I’m shooting my 6.5 creedmore or .22 mag. If it’s a hard kicker like 12 gauge sabots or 45/70 i sight in with my led sled(without any extra weight)and then switch to sand bag with fore end always resting in hand. If equipped with iron sights I always sight in with those first, so I can use those in case my optics would fail, or my battery goes dead on my red dot or reflex sight. Trigger pull does matter a lot in precision shooting, but I really don’t expect precision from a .44, but the dang thing should shoot accurate enough to hunt with. The trigger isn’t great but not that bad. I’d guess 5 lbs. I prefer 3 shot groups if I’m having accuracy issues with the gun. Hell, my old smoothbore ithaca 37 will out shoot the Remlin, no contest. I’m not a very good off hand shooter, but I’m ok at dialing a gun in from a rest.


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

Drm50 said:


> A rifle has to be benched and rested to see true accuracy. Also multiple 5 shot groups. I don’t sight pistol cartridge carbines at 100yds. Mine are tuned at 60yds. dead 0. You will have people tell you it’s a waste because you don’t shoot off a rest in the woods. I have found these free hand sighters are
> always missing. The more perfect a gun is sighted from rest, the better you can shoot it off hand.


 I say the same thing that way you know the gun is right and if you can't hit something with it then that's your fault not the gun 👍


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Jim white said:


> I say the same thing that way you know the gun is right and if you can't hit something with it then that's your fault not the gun 👍


 What about when 2 guys go to range on multiple days and both can shoot baseball size or snaller groups at 100 yards with 3 of the 4 rifles they brought that day. But the Remlin is shooting 4-5 inch groups at 50 yards by both shooters while trying 5-6 different types of ammo? IMO that suggests that the gun isn’t right and it’s not the shooters.
I originally posted asking where to find some .431 diameter .44 ammo either factory or reloads. A few websights list it, but I can’t find any in stock.
Thanks to all who gave constructive feedback.


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

DHower08 said:


> Try scrubbing the barrel with a green scotch Brite pad. Then put polishing compound on a patch with a cleaning rod on a drill and polish the snot out of the barrel. I have had a few new barrels on guns that I could not get to shoot accurately at all. Doing this took the guns from being nearly worthless to some of the most accurate guns I own. It is especially effective in muzzleloaders. Worth a shot and won't hurt a thing.


 I will try this before I take it to the range again. Thanks


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Remlins are garbage. You’re better off selling it and putting the money towards a Henry or a Ruger 77/44. Love my Henrys and their warrantee/customer service far surpasses any other service I’ve experienced out there. Just my 2 cents.


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

A low velocity cartridge that is shooting that bad is not going to be helped by a .001” on bullet dia. 
Good advice is to trade it off. Just about any other 44 is better choice.


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## Muddy (May 7, 2017)

The story behind the Remlins is pretty interesting if you have time to look into it. It really made me appreciate older Marlin’s even more. Marlins were produced with less technology and much more hand fit craftsmanship than what Remington ever dreamed of when they tried to reproduce the Marlin product line.


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

Remington was trying to produce Marlin designs with MIM and other hi tech methods. They didn’t pull it off. Ruger now has Marlin rights. Ruger will produce Marlin designs using hi tech. Ruger is leader in this field. You must understand that Ruger is not going to reproduce JM Marlins - old school machined parts and hand fitted. Those days are gone. The cost to produce guns by old methods is to expensive. 
Ruger will put out a functional rifle geared to what todays shooters want. Another dept that Remington was active in. 
This will futher kick JM Marlins into quasi collector realm. The post WW2 to hammer block safety models are already bringing a premium. The pre war models are staying about the same. Millions of Marlin levers out there.


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## shot1buck (Feb 23, 2011)

I picked up a Marlin 44 lever early part of last year. I’ll have to check what year it was made and if it was a junk year or not. Is there a general time line that it’s not worth keeping? I have a Ruger 77/44 best rifle in 44 I have. I also have a Ruger 44 carbine semi auto haven’t shot it yet. Great discussion on the guns here


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

It’s unfortunate ruger doesn’t make the 44 carbine anymore. You’d thought they would have started making them again with the states that have allowed straight walled cartridges.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Smitty82 said:


> It’s unfortunate ruger doesn’t make the 44 carbine anymore. You’d thought they would have started making them again with the states that have allowed straight walled cartridges.


Agree.
Really liked that platform.


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## MagicMarker (Mar 19, 2017)

Ive got a couple of ruger 44 carbines. One with the magazine one without. I’d like to see ruger make it in a 350 legend


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

MagicMarker said:


> Ive got a couple of ruger 44 carbines. One with the magazine one without. *I’d like to see ruger make it in a 350 legend*


Now that would really be a sweet setup.


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## supersport 170 (Apr 10, 2014)

Well being a machinest my self. Anyone can run a new machine . A man that's ran the same old machine for many years is the key . The machines that the guns were made on were old and obviously good because the Marlins were great guns made by great talented machinest that knew the old equipment and made it sing . Well when you crap on an old craftsman of that caliber he ain't gonna help you do anything ,trust me I'm know how it works . Rem.had to buy up and retrofit and try to speed up the equipment and do it cheaply . You know what happens there. The produced a bunch of crap guns that no one wants and damned near ruined a name of an amazing rifle. Now thanks to a quality manufacturer the rifle is back !!!


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

Just like they say a good rifleman knows how his gun shoots. If they are consistent shooting the same way🤔


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

I sold guns for almost 30yrs. Sold a lot of Marlin lever actions. The only Marlins I remember being brought back with complaints were m60s semi auto 22s with tube magazine. Their bolt guns were dependable and trouble free. 
Henry exist because of Remington ruining Marlin. Another Marlin that was the best rifle in the category was the 39series Lever action. Basic design started with model of 1892, progressed to 1897 and finally the 39. These rifles made before safety was added will bring $1k in hi condition. 
The Winchester 9422 and the Browning lever 22 are nice guns but are actually nothing like the old rifles they are made to look like. Modern designed actions. Nothing wrong with that they just aren’t in same league as the Marlin 39. 
Winchester did make the M 1873 in 22rf. Try to find one of those in decent condition that is affordable. 
MIM parts? I don’t know. A guy told me that is in the business of MIM, it’s like anything else it depends on who makes them. The quality of materials and process can differ. Any everyday Joe that is popping of about them - good or bad, don’t know squat. They haven’t been around long enough.


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## shot1buck (Feb 23, 2011)

After lots of reading on here and on the internet my Marlin 1894 large loop 44 will be going up for sale or trade. To me it seems like it’s not worth it for me to put a good scope on it spend couple hours trying to dial it to zero if it’s possible just to be disappointed in the end results. Plus the waste of ammo to shoot it in. Coming to a Marketplace near you soon.


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## fireline (Jun 14, 2007)

shot1buck said:


> I picked up a Marlin 44 lever early part of last year. I’ll have to check what year it was made and if it was a junk year or not. Is there a general time line that it’s not worth keeping? I have a Ruger 77/44 best rifle in 44 I have. I also have a Ruger 44 carbine semi auto haven’t shot it yet. Great discussion on the guns here


The preferred Marlins have a small JM stamped on the left side of the barrel right in front of the receiver, if it has this it should be a good shooter,
I have a Ruger semi auto carbine and it shoots 240 gr jhp amazingly well.


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## Jim white (Feb 19, 2018)

shot1buck said:


> After lots of reading on here and on the internet my Marlin 1894 large loop 44 will be going up for sale or trade. To me it seems like it’s not worth it for me to put a good scope on it spend couple hours trying to dial it to zero if it’s possible just to be disappointed in the end results. Plus the waste of ammo to shoot it in. Coming to a Marketplace near you soon.


 Just because one gun doesn't shoot like it should doesn't mean another gun won't shoot just fine. Have ya had it on sandbags to see how it shoots. It's not like we're talking about a 300 or 400 yard gun. It's a deer gun 🤔 what are ya asking for it


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

shot1buck said:


> After lots of reading on here and on the internet my Marlin 1894 large loop 44 will be going up for sale or trade. To me it seems like it’s not worth it for me to put a good scope on it spend couple hours trying to dial it to zero if it’s possible just to be disappointed in the end results. Plus the waste of ammo to shoot it in. Coming to a Marketplace near you soon.


That’s what I would do. If you got a 77/44 I would say you got the best around, from my experience. I got a 788 Rem back in 60s. I stopped at a buddies house and we shot it in his yard. He wanted it so we traded. He still has it and won’t turn it loose. He’s got a 3x9 Redfield on it and shot groundhog for years with it out 150yds. That’s only gun I can think of that would have a chance beating out 77/44 for accuracy. I thought my old JM 1894 shot good, it would clover leaf at 60yds. The Ruger #3, original 44carbine and Ruger lever 44 all came in the same at 3rd place. The 77/44s with 2x7 Leupolds were stacking them at 60yds with Win Whitebox 240s. That’s what all the guns I sighted in were shot with.
My own were shot with 240XTPs / 22.5g of 2400. They may have done better if load was worked up for individual rifles. That is my deer load for Ruger SBH. 
Back on subject of Remlin. Yes there are probably some that shoot. The amount of complaint and personal experience with Remlins, I want no part of them. They might even be collector items in near future.


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

shot1buck said:


> After lots of reading on here and on the internet my Marlin 1894 large loop 44 will be going up for sale or trade. To me it seems like it’s not worth it for me to put a good scope on it spend couple hours trying to dial it to zero if it’s possible just to be disappointed in the end results. Plus the waste of ammo to shoot it in. Coming to a Marketplace near you soon.


 I wouldn’t give up without trying it. As I said earlier, the 2 45/70’s Remilns we bought from the same time frame shoot good and one of the is real accurate


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## Harry1959 (Mar 17, 2011)

Also maybe try the iron sights at 50 yards before investing in a scope.


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## Drm50 (Dec 26, 2014)

I’ve got 1x scope straight power. If a rifle is already drilled & tapped, I’ll mount that scope and see what the rifle does. This isn’t to sight in just to get idea of how gun shoots. I can’t actually tell how good it will group but I can tell if it’s worth messing with. Lever actions, pumps, autos are not going to shoot like a bolt action. But anything that won’t do 3” 5shot groups goes down the road. If bolt gun 
1.5”. If you were a bench rest shooter my rifles would be junk. 
They say rifle that will shoot 6” at 100yds is fine for deer gun. I would say that’s true if your deer shooting is 100yds. The increased size of group in a 6” gun gets worse fast as range increases. 
Rifle is assembly line product. You are going to have a couple cherries and a couple lemons in production runs. The majority will be mediocre. Remington went against this because they hadn’t worked out the bugs, they were in financial bind, a decision was made to ship substandard product and play games with QC and Customer Service.


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