# Climate Change. CAUTION: NO POLITICAL OR POLITICALLY LEADING POSTS PLEASE!!!



## dperry2011 (Feb 22, 2019)

What is the upside of climate change?


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## bulafisherman (Apr 11, 2004)

Nobody wants to touch this.....my opinion only, it's a hoax


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## Blackcat 86 (Feb 11, 2011)

It's just another way for _them_ to give away _your _money. Scientists can agree on little else other than it's been a cash cow for their research grants.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Another thread that very well has the tendency to go down the 'political' rat hole.
Hence the editing of the thread title.
*Asking well in advance before that happens...PLEASE DON'T!*


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## Rocknut (Apr 17, 2015)

Here you go


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## loweman165 (May 15, 2015)

According to the Greenland glacial ice cores this is business as usual for the last 4000 years. Take a look:


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## ohiojmj (Apr 16, 2004)

I'll be the first to answer his question. Extended boating season on Lake Erie.


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## whitey7 (Aug 20, 2014)

An upside to climate change would be warmer temps. That results in more glacial melting, which produces higher water levels. This equals more fishing spots!!!!!


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## SConner (Mar 3, 2007)

interesting graph that shows relationship between carbon emissions and average temperature since 1880.


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## bridgeman (Aug 26, 2010)

Carbon dioxide is plant food. No downside to 1.5 degree warmer summer, my garden didn't mind. My nephew was worried because his teacher told the class that the planet is in serious trouble. He said the teacher claimed the rising temperatures are exposing wooly mammoth remains above the arctic circle. I told him to think about that statement before jumping into this whole fiasco. Ask yourself how they got there in the first place. Told him weather patterns have only been recorded since 1880 at the earliest. Think about that... we're being told the earth is in trouble based on data collected over 1/1,000,000,000th of its existence. Give me a million dollars to do a study, I'll gladly set out a few monitoring stations in direct sunlight and sleep in till noon for the next 7 or 8 years. Big joke


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

Boy it takes a lot to abstain from joining the climate change debate, but so far I can muster the strength to do so and simply answer the original question.

There are several good things I can see as a fisherman. A longer fishing season and higher water levels should lead to more fish being caught. Increased growth weights in fish. However, there are way more negatives to a prolonged warm up. As a northern climate fishery, I think we would see a change in species dominance and some of our favorite fish decline as spawning and habitat changes. That is if you seriously believe we are seeing a man made global warming trend and not just a historic variance.


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

The question never asked is if we do all the things in the green deal and Paris accords etc what weather can we expect? What will the outcome be after, more cold weather, more warm weather?? And China and India do not care and do nothing about their emissions. They cannot prove co2 is doing it, I think its deforestation causing heat increases. Pave everything, asphalt roofs, cut down trees and the asphalt holds the heat, no trees to make oxygen, co2 levels go up. They want our money, are they gonna build big co2 scrubbers to remove the co2? What are they gonna do with the money ???


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

Here is what the scientists say. Some things are favorable. The Effects of Climate Change


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## DavidRK (Feb 21, 2020)

Opening of the Northwest Passage to cargo shipping. Saving millions in fuel and time.


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## ironman172 (Apr 12, 2009)

It changes everyday, been forever ,
narrative pushed for $ gain
Wasn't long ago we were headed for another ice age


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

the biggest up side that I see that I can spend more time outside during winter. Fishing, hiking....
the biggest down side I see is my wife's pissed off cause usually winter is when I spend more time indoors catching up on her honey-do's.


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## SConner (Mar 3, 2007)

bridgeman said:


> Told him weather patterns have only been recorded since 1880 at the earliest. Think about that... we're being told the earth is in trouble based on data collected over 1/1,000,000,000th of its existence.


Somebody posted a graph that goes back thousands of years earlier in the thread that were derived from studying ice cores (I believe) and it shows cyclical patterns. The graph I provided shows observed temps along side of carbon emissions and you are correct, it is a very short period of time. That does not discount the observations made, it simply means it is more complex and many data sets need to be considered. This is not my field and I make no claim to have the answers. I do believe we should continue to study and better understand our impact on the environment.


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## PapawSmith (Feb 13, 2007)

SConner said:


> Somebody posted a graph that goes back thousands of years earlier in the thread that were derived from studying ice cores (I believe) and it shows cyclical patterns. The graph I provided shows observed temps along side of carbon emissions and you are correct, it is a very short period of time. That does not discount the observations made, it simply means it is more complex and many data sets need to be considered. This is not my field and I make no claim to have the answers. I do believe we should continue to study and better understand our impact on the environment.


Actually, your chart shows the recent historic correlation between carbon dioxide and the Earths temperatures, and does not address carbon "emissions". Had the chart by Loweman 165 included carbon dioxide levels during the same period it would have mirrored the patterns in your chart. It has been well established that this carbon/temp pattern is very consistent through out time and science cannot tell you with any level of certainty if the higher carbon dioxide levels are either a cause or an effect of the higher global temperatures. The carbon levels during the Jurassic Period were as much as five times as today, had nothing to do with anything 'man made', and could perhaps be the period in time when our Earth was its very healthiest.


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## Sonder (May 9, 2020)

All the photos that exist you cant fake that “ Here then and going, going going, and someday gone”. Its some type of cycle and who knows. Our recorded history is all we have to go off of. Everything else is speculation. I have a few friends “lol very few”, but two of them are engineer types. One of them lives in Greenland and the other Iceland. They believe its a cycle and all the cores that they have taken through all the ice tell the same tales. Unless we can get an eye witness “lol” we unfortunately have to rely on the experience of others and their interpretation what the science is telling them so they can intern tell you and I. As a joke I'm sure the dinosaurs farted more gasses than we are emitting today ..lol..


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

I'll bite. If it's real it will just keep extending my boating season. If it's not real it will make late season deer hunting great again


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## night vision (Apr 26, 2016)

Glacier National Park to remove all ‘glaciers will be gone by 2020’ signs (wtkr.com)


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## threeten (Feb 5, 2014)

Hasn’t it been warming since the last ice age?


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## SConner (Mar 3, 2007)

PapawSmith said:


> Actually, your chart shows the recent historic correlation between carbon dioxide and the Earths temperatures, and does not address carbon "emissions". Had the chart by Loweman 165 included carbon dioxide levels during the same period it would have mirrored the patterns in your chart. It has been well established that this carbon/temp pattern is very consistent through out time and science cannot tell you with any level of certainty if the higher carbon dioxide levels are either a cause or an effect of the higher global temperatures. The carbon levels during the Jurassic Period were as much as five times as today, had nothing to do with anything 'man made', and could perhaps be the period in time when our Earth was its very healthiest.


Good clarification, I misspoke


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Until it started, ALL of Ohio was under ice.


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

Funny there is no climate change yet lake erie is up to record levels..and it's not just from rain lol 
They are gonna have to add on to all the break walls on the lake pretty soon 
I have a 10 foot extended handle landing net I've been using for years used to be on the fairport breakwall I had to extend it all the way out and then kneel down to land a fish 
Now I don't have to extend it at all and don't have to kneel ....water levels are rising all over the world


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## John Garwood (Jul 5, 2016)

Rocknut said:


> Here you go
> 
> View attachment 462235


A glacier is a moving thing, It adances and recedes, Heck no one complained when the glaciers made the Great Lakes and then melted away....


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

Correlation doesn't not equal causation. Historically, violent crime increases when the sale of ice cream increases. Does ice cream cause people to murder each other? One of the first things I learned in my statistics class is that you can make statistics say anything you want them to say. Many "scientists" use this to push an agenda, nothing more nothing less.

The 1970's was the next ice age, now we have global warming...give me a break


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## Sonder (May 9, 2020)

Violent crimes do increase when its warmer out rather when its cold lol!


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

Sonder said:


> Violent crimes do increase when its warmer out rather when its cold lol!


Thats the point I was making. As weather warms up, violent crime increase and so does the sale of ice cream. Both are linked to warmer weather but neither influence the other. Statistically though, I could show that an increase in ice cream sales will lead to an increase in violent crime, even though they have nothing to do with each other. Hence, with my statistical data, I could say that if we banned ice cream sales, violent crime would go down. See how that works and how silly it is.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

Funny thing about all the banter over carbon emissions; there is not one ounce more carbon today then there was 50,100,1000 or 10,000 years ago. The earth still has the same amount it had when it was formed. Now the form its in may differ. So, when I hear someone talk about reducing the creation of carbon, I internally chuckle. I do agree that the paving over of our surface area and deforestation and plant biomass loss is far more contributing than a coal burning power plant.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm still on the fence about climate change. The climate has changed a lot during my lifetime, and this may be normal. Some thing though are obvious. The Native Americans never dumped 11 billion gallons of oil in the north Pacific Ocean, or dump toxic waste water in the rivers. Dinosaurs never left their Beer cans by the lake, or threw their fast food litter out windows. The world is fighting losing battles on many fronts. Global warming is just one. I feel sorry for the children who have to clean up the messes we have made...








Still a sad commercial even though he's an (Italian) actor.....


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## Sonder (May 9, 2020)

but we can agree for what ever reason right now that the ice mass we have on the planet is not the same its less than it was 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. Its not like its moving somewhere its gone ..lol.. no matter what the reason is it is dissappearing


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## Upland (Nov 3, 2016)

warmer weather better fishing more spots to fish shorts year round LOL what's not to love


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## loweman165 (May 15, 2015)

Ohio was covered in ice at one time. That disappeared long before man had anything to do with it. At some point the earth is going to flick us off like a flee. Its been doing it to species for millions of years. Im sure there's nothing we can do about it.


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## Sonder (May 9, 2020)

The black swamp rather


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## BeerBatter (Aug 1, 2006)

loweman165 said:


> Ohio was covered in ice at one time. That disappeared long before man had anything to do with it. At some point the earth is going to flick us off like a flee. Its been doing it to species for millions of years. Im sure there's nothing we can do about it.


I agree


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## bad luck (Apr 9, 2009)

The cost of real estate along the Eastern and Western seaboards is almost like their giving it away due to rising sea levels.....just look it up....I mean if the sea levels truly are rising, this would be worthless real estate and NOBODY would want to touch it-right?


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

BuckeyeFishinNut said:


> Correlation doesn't not equal causation. Historically, violent crime increases when the sale of ice cream increases. Does ice cream cause people to murder each other? One of the first things I learned in my statistics class is that you can make statistics say anything you want them to say. Many "scientists" use this to push an agenda, nothing more nothing less.
> 
> The 1970's was the next ice age, now we have global warming...give me a break


And it was the same guy making all the noise about both! It's a TRADING SCAM, works the same way as your stockbroker - he makes money on the trade, not by investing his money in securities, If the market goes up and you sell, he makes money, If the market goes down and you buy, he makes money. He saw cooling and warming the same way in opportunity, as he was going to be the guru of CARBON CREDITS. Didn't matter if you output more or less CO2, he was going to be there with credits (forgiveness) you could buy from him if you were over the allowance, or to sell your excess credits to someone else if you were under the allowance - he's THE CARBON CREDIT BROKER. Never was about making the air better or colder or warmer.

To answer the OP question, I'm not sure a degree or so plus or minus in our lifetime will be noticeable, and the overall effect will only be recorded in posterity. It's been happening that way for eons. One good volcanic eruption is worth 500 years of CO2 It's a noble undertaking to try control our effect on the environment, but rather narcissistic to think we can fine tune it.


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## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

The dinosaurs come back, eat man, asteroid hits earth, dinosaurs die and it all starts over. Don’t laugh...maybe it already happened. A couple of times. Like Matrix....

Recorded history only goes back so far. The rest is speculation. We shouldn’t get so serious about ourselves. We’ve only been around for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction to time. Eventually we will be replaced.


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## SConner (Mar 3, 2007)

bad luck said:


> The cost of real estate along the Eastern and Western seaboards is almost like their giving it away due to rising sea levels.....just look it up....I mean if the sea levels truly are rising, this would be worthless real estate and NOBODY would want to touch it-right?


If some of the projections are correct on rise of sea levels, Florida could be in real trouble. I saw an interactive US map once (do not remember where) that showed what would be underwater if levels went up 1-4 feet.... it was fairly catastrophic at +4 feet.


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## Burkcarp1 (Dec 24, 2016)

Great Lakes water levels go down more than normal, inch away from record levels


See how much Great Lakes water levels fell during October




www.mlive.com


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## overcheck (Dec 13, 2010)

the warmer the winter is in Ohio less energy needed for heat so less carbon emissions. My question is global warming really a bad thing?


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## snagless-1 (Oct 26, 2014)

The climate always changes.Look at Kellys Island glacier grooves,about 18,000 years ago we were under a mile of ice.Now with fear and media someone can make a lot of money.Follow the money...........


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## PeterG7 (May 29, 2020)

The Little Ice age really fouled things up for almost 600 years, speculation is it brought on the black death.

It’s believed it was caused by super volcano eruptions so weather does change but the real question is can man’s behavior alter the climate? I believe the answer is no.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blackcat 86 (Feb 11, 2011)

MuskyFan said:


> Eventually we will be replaced.


George Carlin was the prophet.


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## Century2001 (Mar 20, 2018)

Haven’t had to use my snowblower yet this winter, I kinda like it that way.


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## Pooch (Jun 16, 2014)

Curious as to why my post was removed. Moderator please feel free to pm.


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## eightwt (Nov 29, 2020)

Hoping it pushes the snook and bonefish up here to the big bend, but seeing i'm 70, don't think i'll last that long....


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Pooch said:


> Curious as to why my post was removed. Moderator please feel free to pm.


Show no history of you posting in this thread prior to post # 47.
PM sent...


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## Junebug2320 (Apr 23, 2010)

Ohio Outdoor News paper:











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## DUCKHEAD (Apr 28, 2007)

Not saying if it's happening but just wondered if it could happen because of all the oil we take from under the ground. Oil is used to cool things sometimes and maybe with all the oil being pulled out we are losing our cooling layer from the earth's core. Heat rises and that's why the permafrost frost layer in Alaska is thawing. Just hypothetical theory.


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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

TRIPLE-J said:


> Funny there is no climate change yet lake erie is up to record levels..and it's not just from rain lol
> They are gonna have to add on to all the break walls on the lake pretty soon
> I have a 10 foot extended handle landing net I've been using for years used to be on the fairport breakwall I had to extend it all the way out and then kneel down to land a fish
> Now I don't have to extend it at all and don't have to kneel ....water levels are rising all over the world


water levels can't be up that much, i am using the same net from my boat that i have for the past 10-years...

wait for it.. wait for it.. ahh, you got it now :^)


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## buck16on (Feb 10, 2014)

No one really knows and the reason no one knows is the earth is a never ending evolving planet so nothing is supposed to stay the same. That's why there was an ice age. There's nothing in science that says the climate should stay the same. We, human beings, tend to be control freaks and think we should be able to control everything. It's hard for us to accept we can't control the evolution of the earth and weather. Millions of years of forest fires, prairie fires, volcanic eruptions and their effects on the ozone probably has done way more damage than man can ever do. We're so egotistical that we think we are cause, the cure all, and the saviors on this planet. We're actually not that significant.


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## TODD64 (May 7, 2015)

Well said Buck16.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## DavidRK (Feb 21, 2020)

50 years of failed "doomsday" predictions by the "experts". 









50 Years of Failed Doomsday, Eco-pocalyptic Predictions; the So-called 'experts' Are 0-50


This week Myron Ebell (director of the Center for Energy and Environment at the Competitive Enterprise Institute) and Steven J. Milloy published a post on the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) blog titled “Wrong Again: 50 Years of Failed Eco-pocalyptic Predictions:” Modern doomsayers have...




www.aei.org


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

Also, millions of years ago, plants were much larger than they are today. Evolutionary biologists believe this is because the planet was much warmer and there was much more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere (there were no humans, cars, or coal fired power plants). Many plants have indeterminate growth, so if you have warmer weather (long growing seasons), plenty of sun, carbon dioxide, and water (used for photosynthesis) plants can easily grow very large. This is the reason we have so much oil and natural gas in Ohio, it was once a subtropical swamp.


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## Bluewalleye (Jun 1, 2009)

Junebug2320 said:


> Ohio Outdoor News paper:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a great article I used to own land on a bay off of Lake Superior and the water level 15 to 20 years ago was way down. To the point that we couldn't even launch a boat to even get on the bay. Then the last couple of years the water has been real high, to the point if their is a stiff west wind that the bay would come in and flood the entire are. But it has been this way my entire life. I have been fishing up their sense I was 5 years old ( 1967 ). I can remember the water fluctuating pretty much every 2 or 3 years. It is called weather and it runs in cycles. 
I for one really enjoy these warmer winters and soft water all winter long. Love fishing out of my boat. lol


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## Ron Y (Dec 2, 2020)

Only problem is the warm stays too late in the year and then we get winter dragging into spring with cold rainy, windy conditions. I guess its just 30 year cycle. Water was high in the mid 80's, was in Port Clinton that summer and you could not tell where road ends and marina began. Saw people walk right into deep water cause they could not see the seawall.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

Just happened to notice this in todays paper in the weather forecast section. The record high for this date was 61*F in 1933. The record low was -22*F in 1994. That's an 83 degree difference in not that long a time span. I know it is not statistically significant, but it is interesting.


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## PapawSmith (Feb 13, 2007)

buck16on said:


> No one really knows and the reason no one knows is the earth is a never ending evolving planet so nothing is supposed to stay the same. That's why there was an ice age. There's nothing in science that says the climate should stay the same. We, human beings, tend to be control freaks and think we should be able to control everything. It's hard for us to accept we can't control the evolution of the earth and weather. Millions of years of forest fires, prairie fires, volcanic eruptions and their effects on the ozone probably has done way more damage than man can ever do. We're so egotistical that we think we are cause, the cure all, and the saviors on this planet. We're actually not that significant.


You are pretty freaking smart for being only 9 posts old!


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## PeterG7 (May 29, 2020)

buckeyebowman said:


> Just happened to notice this in todays paper in the weather forecast section. The record high for this date was 61*F in 1933. The record low was -22*F in 1994. That's an 83 degree difference in not that long a time span. I know it is not statistically significant, but it is interesting.


In my lifetime (61years) I’ve experienced a record high 104 and record low -29 in Ashtabula Co. 2005 was record snow 155”

In the the last 10 years we’ve experienced droughts that play havoc with the well.


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## G-Patt (Sep 3, 2013)

This thread is awesome. It should also remind all of us that "the science" is not an exact science, and there's plenty of room for disagreement. This is true for medical science too, and those to purport to know "the science" are bunch of pandering hacks. We are all scientist to some degree, good or bad, and our job as such is to question all of it, all of the time. There has to be room debate or otherwise "science" doesn't exist and we devolve into demagogy and tyranny. Whether you feel you have credentials or not to question what's before you and what you're being told, you have a duty to question it, do your own research and understand multiple sides of the argument as well as the context of those arguments. Be an independent thinker. 

Sorry to preach. 

Like some have already posted, more glacier melting equals more fishing spots! I ain't scared.


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## DavidRK (Feb 21, 2020)

G-Pratt, you make good points. At one time it was settled science the world was flat, maggots came from rotting meat and the sun and planets revolved around the Earth.


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## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

Right, there is no doubt about climate change occurring. Its continuous.
The argument began with some scientists claiming that there exists man made climate change.
Remember those emails from a few years back?
I read this week that if all of the programs were fully implemented in the Paris agreement, the net effect would be so small that it would be of no significance in reducing any climate change.
So knowing there is going to be a purpose for all of this, what is it?
I'm starting a separate thread for that, I don't want to hijack this one.


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## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

Now that we are as a nation back into the Paris Agreement, the subject of carbon footprints come to mind, specifically related to our future ability of enjoying the outdoor sports that we love.

This is taken from the Paris Agreement pages- 
"A carbon footprint is the total amount of greenhouse gases (including carbon dioxide and methane) that are generated by our actions.
The average carbon footprint for a person in the United States is 16 tons, one of the highest rates in the world. Globally, the average is closer to 4 tons. To have the best chance of avoiding a 2℃ rise in global temperatures, the average global carbon footprint per year needs to drop under 2 tons by 2050."

Knowing that it takes extra fuel to drive anywhere to fish/hunt, and then possibly operate motored boats, 4-wheelers, etc. (all of which increases our "household carbon footprints"); I'm beginning to wonder how the Paris Agreement is going to effect our future enjoyment of the outdoors. 

In a practical sense do I go ahead with my plan to buy a truck camper for my truck that I bought for a truck camper, or hold off a while to see if I'll need to sell the 2015 GMC 2500SLT, Duramax diesel, 4X4, 8 ft. bed truck? I guess time will tell.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Yes...Shame on you and I both for owning a big diesel drinking trucks to pull our gas guzzling boats with!
Our climate change 'footprint' has to be huuuuge!!!
And even though I use my ATV to help our climate by pulling those dead farting, climate destroying deer I have killed out of the woods ...it's just unspeakable that I have a gas guzzling ATV in the garage.
Hmmm...speaking of farting...do fish fart?
If so...we may be helping the climate by keeping more of the fish we catch.
Let's get back to the shame...
To add even more shame...its 20degrees outside and here I sit in my robe in my huge 1400sq. ft house with the thermostat set at 72.


That's it!!!
I'm so ashamed I just went and put long johns and jacket on and turned thermostat to 62.
Selling truck,boat and ATV and donating all proceeds to the Leonardo Dicaprio Climate Control Foundation.
Him and the rest of the Hollywood climate control promoting elite need all the $ they can get to keep the electric and gas turned on in their many mansions/estates. Let's not forget...they also need $ for their Yachts, leer jets, helicopters, Lamborghini's and car collections...and remember...it's not cheap for the limo rides to the climate control banquets and awards shows.
And we should NEVER expect them to arrive at these elite, red carpet events in a Prius.

Gonna do my part...

P.S. If'n I hit the mega...you too can sell your truck and boat.
Gonna buy a couple places on LSC furnished with everything needed.
Will send Prius to pick you up when you want to fish.


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## catfish_1999 (Jan 17, 2016)

This climate change is just bullshit anyway!!! It has been changing ever since the glaciers started to melt. The less ice cover the faster the temp will increase. Pretty simple !!! So why do we spend trillions to find a way to make things cost more so only the elite can afford to do the bad things. Yeah I know there are lots of things that are causing the change but we are not the biggest controlling factor on the earth.


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## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

You can’t discuss climate change without it becoming political, or at least I can’t, so all I can say it that IMO it is biggest, money grabbing scheme concocted. No matter how hard you try, or what they want to shove down our throats, we can’t stop climate change.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Now we have 2 threads on climate change? Both with no political comment warnings.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

The assigning of value as to how much the carbon footprint for each person in any country is, makes no sense to me. China has what a billion people and a lot of them live in poverty. So you divide their country's footprint by a billion and ours by 300 million. Sounds like a bargain for China, to me. They can have 3 times the total emissions and still have the same per person footprint as us. This whole argument is garbage . Hey, you guys saving the planet by getting rid of your trucks and boats, I can store them for you and make sure you aren't destroying the planet. All I need is the keys and you to keep insurance and license on them. I make this sacrifice just so you can have a clear conscious.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Southernsaug said:


> The assigning of value as to how much the carbon footprint for each person in any country is, makes no sense to me. China has what a billion people and a lot of them live in poverty. So you divide their country's footprint by a billion and ours by 300 million. Sounds like a bargain for China, to me. They can have 3 times the total emissions and still have the same per person footprint as us. This whole argument is garbage . Hey, you guys saving the planet by getting rid of your trucks and boats, I can store them for you and make sure you aren't destroying the planet. All I need is the keys and you to keep insurance and license on them. I make this sacrifice just so you can have a clear conscious.


Southernsaug,
Re-read your 'edited' post.
See...It's not really all that hard to comment leaving politics out of the thread.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

*Combining this thread with the other 'Climate Control' thread...*


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## Burkcarp1 (Dec 24, 2016)

All I can do is bite my tongue.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Burkcarp1 said:


> All I can do is bite my tongue.


Bandaids are in the mail.


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## cement569 (Jan 21, 2016)

fastwater asked, do fish fart? oh yea, have you ever been fishing on a lake and see random bubbles come up? thank god they dont have access to taco bell or the lake would look like a whirlpool hot tub


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

Ok fastwater, I concede, but I will still keep your truck and boat for you....hey I'm just a nice guy having fun.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

cement569 said:


> fastwater asked, do fish fart? oh yea, have you ever been fishing on a lake and see random bubbles come up? thank god they dont have access to taco bell or the lake would look like a whirlpool hot tub


Am currently doing a study on which leaves a bigger climate footprint...tractor exhaust or a couple farting horses.
May have to end up selling tractor.



Southernsaug said:


> Ok fastwater, I concede, *but I will still keep your truck and boat for you....hey I'm just a nice guy having fun.*


Appreciate it....but...NO CAN DO!
Selling everything and all proceeds going to Hollywoods elite that promote climate change.
It's the least I can do for the cause.
Them rich and famous people have 6-8 big ole estates a piece they have ta keep the heat and electric on even when they aren't there. And them big ole heated swimmin pools and hot tubs takes a fortune in $ to heat.


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## night vision (Apr 26, 2016)

I'm selling Carbon offsets if anyone would like to purchase just send me a pm for payment details . Do your part to to help me and the Earth.


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## DJA (Jun 18, 2004)

Interesting Thread- Lots at Stake for oil, gas and coal industry, In reality we are only one major volcano or asteroid impact , away from a complete change in Global Temperatures . Lots of Good ideas- Send them to West Virginia that's where all the Decisions will be made, after losing their coal industry, they just drew a Royal Flush, and I am both Jealous and Happy for them


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## whitey7 (Aug 20, 2014)

I’m setting up a Go Fund Me to save the planet. Please send me all your proceeds.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

I see a lot of me and we in these posts. Climate change won't affect most of us. We'll be dead. What it's about is our kids and future generations. IMO

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## DJA (Jun 18, 2004)

Did you ever notice in The Summer the Coolest days have Cloud cover and in the Winter the Coldest Days are Cloud Free just like Today


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## Burkcarp1 (Dec 24, 2016)

night vision said:


> I'm selling Carbon offsets if anyone would like to purchase just send me a pm for payment details . Do your part to to help me and the Earth.


That’s already been done a few years back....but it must not have worked..well, it worked for the guy that started it. He got what he wanted.


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## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

bobk, no my thread was not meant to be about climate change.
Rather, about the effects that will be placed on us through the Paris Agreement.
I'll wait until we learn more about the details, then make a different thread.
The Paris Agreement and its implications for us is worthy of its own thread.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

Ruminator said:


> Right, there is no doubt about climate change occurring. Its continuous.
> The argument began with some scientists claiming that there exists man made climate change.
> Remember those emails from a few years back?
> I read this week that if all of the programs were fully implemented in the Paris agreement, the net effect would be so small that it would be of no significance in reducing any climate change.
> ...


Interesting post that dovetails nicely with the article that I quoted in an earlier post. Here's more from that article.

The world spends $1 Billion a day to "prevent" global warming; a UN scientist says that the "97% consensus" on global warming was "pulled from thin air", presumably hot air from politicians; scientific organizations claim climate change "consensus", but have not polled their members; climate policies are not helping, but "crushing the world's poor"; the Paris climate accord will theoretically postpone global warming by just 4 years, but will cost $100 Trillion if fully implemented; climate change has been blamed for prostitution, barroom brawls, airplane turbulence and war; one climate activist is quoted as saying we should "protect our kids by not having them"; recent "hottest year" claims are based on statistically meaningless year to year differences; Antarctica is actually gaining, not losing, ice; carbon dioxide levels today are 10 times lower than in some past ice ages.



Ruminator said:


> Now that we are as a nation back into the Paris Agreement, the subject of carbon footprints come to mind, specifically related to our future ability of enjoying the outdoor sports that we love.
> 
> This is taken from the Paris Agreement pages-
> "A carbon footprint is the total amount of greenhouse gases (including carbon dioxide and methane) that are generated by our actions.
> ...


As someone mentioned before, China has over a billion people so their divisor is much greater than ours. It wasn't that long ago, and maybe it is still going on, that China was opening a new coal-fired electric plant every week! China is loaded with coal, and takes every advantage of it that it can. On the radio I've heard people who have gone to Shanghai, China for work, who said that you can't tell a clear day from a cloudy one. Either way, you can't see the Sun the air pollution is so bad! A

And there is no nation on this planet that has done more to reduce their CO2 output than we have! And not nearly to the percentage that we have! I don't know why, maybe it's some sort of "self hatred", but a lot of Americans like to imagine that other places in the world are as pure as the wind driven snow, while we're one gigantic garbage dump! I'm here to tell you that nothing could be further from the truth!

Also years ago, I read that the Paris climate accords basically give China a free pass, and stick us with the bill! Same with NATO. We're paying everyone else's tab, plus ours! Sorry, everybody needs to pay their fair share, if there is a fair share to be paid!


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## Burkcarp1 (Dec 24, 2016)

Peggy said:


> My friend posted in this thread a quote from the president and was banned for a month. The moderator must work for facebook or twitter.


Read the rules...


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Peggy said:


> My friend posted in this thread a quote from the president and was banned for a month. The moderator must work for facebook or twitter.





Peggy said:


> My friend posted in this thread a quote from the president and was banned for a month. The moderator must work for facebook or twitter.


Who is your friend. It takes more than a single warning to catch 30 days. We are not Facebook or Twitter


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## whitey7 (Aug 20, 2014)

Peggy said:


> My friend posted in this thread a quote from the president and was banned for a month. The moderator must work for facebook or twitter.


Probably deserved it, since it has been stated a bazillion times.......no political crap!


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

One of the major issues today, is that people think because it came from a "scientist" that it must be the truth. They often have ulterior motives, especially when huge grant money and money from governments are involved. Many people lack the ability to think freely and believe what their own eyes see. They are easily persuaded by the media and politicians that have "their best interests" at heart.

Never question the lengths people will go to get money. I read an articles a couple weeks ago about scientists working with Corona viruses. They were afraid of losing their funding to other emerging viruses like AIDS, Ebola, etc. So they forced Corona viruses that were only found in bats to mutate and jump to other mammals, and eventually to human cells. Why would they do this? To prove that it "could" happen and that Corona viruses were also an emerging disease, so they could keep their funding and secure more. They created them, but never attempted to cure or prevent them. What was the lab these scientists worked with? The lab in Wuhan China. Here is the article.



https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html


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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

BuckeyeFishinNut said:


> One of the major issues today, is that people think because it came from a "scientist" that it must be the truth. They often have ulterior motives, especially when huge grant money and money from governments are involved. Many people lack the ability to think freely and believe what their own eyes see. They are easily persuaded by the media and politicians that have "their best interests" at heart.
> 
> Never question the lengths people will go to get money. I read an articles a couple weeks ago about scientists working with Corona viruses. They were afraid of losing their funding to other emerging viruses like AIDS, Ebola, etc. So they forced Corona viruses that were only found in bats to mutate and jump to other mammals, and eventually to human cells. Why would they do this? To prove that it "could" happen and that Corona viruses were also an emerging disease, so they could keep their funding and secure more. They created them, but never attempted to cure or prevent them. What was the lab these scientists worked with? The lab in Wuhan China. Here is the article.
> 
> ...



in past i worked at a location with a number of climate scientists. basically if you wish to remain funded,have a job, and a career, you must adhere to the party line. it is pretty much the same way in much of federally funded science. you need to bolster what is wanted and expected by the folks in power. They have a decided outcome and you are just to make it so... Industry outside research funding is not much different. very few naysayers survive this career track unless they make a great discovery and then can prove it to others. you will still have to fight for it as you will be taking away the career track funding from others then. i know this personally with one effort i am involved in today. have had other scientists actually yell and heckle during a talk over science... things that can be scientifically proven. but we are moving their cheese (as they say).


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

The law of intended consequences in industry has many tentacles. Case in point, the CFL and associated other new flouroescent light bulb. Now, some 15 years ago, a major lighting device manufacturer in Cleveland got on the 'warming' bandwagon and started manufacturing CFLs in china. They were very expensive compared to incandescents, did not work as advertised, and people weren't terribly enamored with them. 

So, CEO of said business got hold of a certain leader of the free world and had a declaration made that incandescent lightbulbs over 60w were to be outlawed over the next few years, for the sake of the planet... . As it happened, six months later your couldn't buy a 100w incandescent bulb anywhere but on CL. The CFLs were still costly but available. If you were shy about the price, the manufacturer added pretty words and promises to the packaging that touted 9 years life and $35 in electricity savings over that life as compared to an incandescent. Sales went up but, trouble was, the POS chinese bulbs wouldn't last 6 months on average. What they failed to recognize is the heat from the bulb burnt out the controlled hidden in the based way before the bulbs' projected 'life'. They also will not tolerate any vibration whatsoever and apparentlly the 'testing' did not consider real world applications. ''

CAVEAT EMPTOR in everything you bargain for, especially if your assigning the barganing poower to soemone else.

Dennis


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## PapawSmith (Feb 13, 2007)

BFN & Privateer are spot on, its not necessarily always 'all about the money' but its most often mostly about the money. I do work for major corporations and have relationships that are decades old with some. I deal often with folks that have been 30 years with a company and climbed the ladder to pretty comfortable positions that pay well, and I knew them when they were green. The way some people change their way of making decisions, doing business, and handling tough situations is remarkable when they get to the level where their acquired compensation and security is too much for them to risk losing. I've seen guys lose basically every business or building principal that made them who they were in our industry, and became basically terrified to make a critical decision or take a stance. They begin to do only what the corporate structure expects of them.


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

Is there bias in research....you bet your panties grandma. As the old saying goes, follow the money and then you'll have a better picture of what's actual science and what is manipulation


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## Burkcarp1 (Dec 24, 2016)

But..it’s gotta be true a scientist said so! 🙄


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

privateer said:


> in past i worked at a location with a number of climate scientists. basically if you wish to remain funded,have a job, and a career, you must adhere to the party line. it is pretty much the same way in much of federally funded science. you need to bolster what is wanted and expected by the folks in power. They have a decided outcome and you are just to make it so... Industry outside research funding is not much different. very few naysayers survive this career track unless they make a great discovery and then can prove it to others. you will still have to fight for it as you will be taking away the career track funding from others then. i know this personally with one effort i am involved in today. have had other scientists actually yell and heckle during a talk over science... things that can be scientifically proven. but we are moving their cheese (as they say).


I wish I could remember where I saw it and who the scientist was, but he had an idea whereby funding for research could be made "blind" to those receiving it. That way they would have no way of knowing who they were "beholden" to, and their conclusions could be based on where the data took them, instead of the political position of their funders. I know I'll be racking my brain....I just remembered! I didn't watch it I read it. I believe it was in the ending remarks at the back of the Michael Crichton novel _State of Fear._ It concerned itself with this very subject. If you can find it, it's a fascinating read, and is science fiction that is supported by a whole lot of science fact!


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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

Ol' Whiskers said:


> The law of intended consequences in industry has many tentacles. Case in point, the CFL and associated other new flouroescent light bulb. Now, some 15 years ago, a major lighting device manufacturer in Cleveland got on the 'warming' bandwagon and started manufacturing CFLs in china. They were very expensive compared to incandescents, did not work as advertised, and people weren't terribly enamored with them.
> 
> So, CEO of said business got hold of a certain leader of the free world and had a declaration made that incandescent lightbulbs over 60w were to be outlawed over the next few years, for the sake of the planet... . As it happened, six months later your couldn't buy a 100w incandescent bulb anywhere but on CL. The CFLs were still costly but available. If you were shy about the price, the manufacturer added pretty words and promises to the packaging that touted 9 years life and $35 in electricity savings over that life as compared to an incandescent. Sales went up but, trouble was, the POS chinese bulbs wouldn't last 6 months on average. What they failed to recognize is the heat from the bulb burnt out the controlled hidden in the based way before the bulbs' projected 'life'. They also will not tolerate any vibration whatsoever and apparentlly the 'testing' did not consider real world applications. ''
> 
> ...


I had two of those damn bulbs almost burn down my house. Lucky i was there and smelled the smoke... First one thought was a rare occurrence. After the second about a month later - i got rid of them all... They were supposed to be great energy saving so they were the bulbs left on when we were not home... 

Now converting all to LEDs. Wonder what badness those will bring?


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Never put much faith in a scientist that works for a profit company. Check what a scientist at a leading university wrights in his journal.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## Southernsaug (May 23, 2019)

I been involved with University research too, ress. I am afraid bias is a thing of human nature and we won't escape it easily. The best thing is third party review or at least objective review. I have done some reviews and I didn't get many invitations to do any further reviews....I called B.S. when I saw it and that didn't make me very popular. Yet there were some who still asked my opinion just because they new I wouldn't cut them any slack. One professor called me aside once and told me he really liked working with me, but I scared the hell out him. I would hope that most of our science gets this approach, but I'm not sure.


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