# 2nd Rut



## mar8152

Starting to see Bucks running Does again...anyone else seeing the start of the 2nd Rut?


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## capt.scott

Same here. Seen a buck chasing a doe hard yesterday.


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## T-180

On Tuesday I saw 3 bucks herding a doe & she was showing all signs of being in full estrous. Central Ohio


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## squid_1

Shot a buck on the 2nd and he was chasing a doe, grunting the whole time.


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## Saugeyefisher

Is it a moon phase causing this 2nd rut? Woods getting back to normal? I havnt hunted for years. I talk hunting with a lot of guys and bring this up with them a lot. 
I drive a lot for work and fish a couple areas with a lot of deer activity. 
I've seen bucks "chasing" does from the first cool down in August to mid December. 
When fish spawn they spawn in cycles. Crappie will spawn from late march/early April-mid June depending on conditions for example(don't know if this is apples-apples ?).... But like deer a majority will spawn/rut at the same time ,but not all??? 
Am I thinking about this right? Typically there is a "peak" for rut. But its possible to see this action for several months. Just not as often as during the "peak"????
I do plan on getting back into hunting soon. But im posting this just because I've always thought about for some reason,and am just curious.
Thanks


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## fastwater

Saugeyefisher said:


> Is it a moon phase causing this 2nd rut? Woods getting back to normal? I havnt hunted for years. I talk hunting with a lot of guys and bring this up with them a lot.
> I drive a lot for work and fish a couple areas with a lot of deer activity.
> I've seen bucks "chasing" does from the first cool down in August to mid December.
> When fish spawn they spawn in cycles. Crappie will spawn from late march/early April-mid June depending on conditions for example(don't know if this is apples-apples ?).... But like deer a majority will spawn/rut at the same time ,but not all???
> Am I thinking about this right? Typically there is a "peak" for rut. But its possible to see this action for several months. Just not as often as during the "peak"????
> I do plan on getting back into hunting soon. But im posting this just because I've always thought about for some reason,and am just curious.
> Thanks


The norm as far as deer rut peaks goes and figuring the 2nd/3rd rutting is generally a 30 day cycle. If you can pinpoint when the 1st rut peaks in Nov., count 30 days from that day and the 2nd rut will peak. Thirty days from that day the 3rd rut will peak.
Sometimes the 1st rut is very strong and most of the does are bred in that rut leaving only a few to be bred during the 2nd rut. If there's any does left, the 3rd rut may not even be noticeable.
It can happen the other way around as well.
Bottom line is, depending on the amount of does bred the 1st rut will depend on how strong/weak the 2nd and 3rd rut will be.
Obviously all does aren't bred during that peak day. Some does will accept bucks prior or a bit after the peak day. That's why its crucial to spend as much time in the woods during late pre rut as possible to try to get a feel of what it going on.


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## supercanoe

The later heat cycles may also include yearling does that were not old enough or large enough to come into heat during November. The number of yearlings that come into heat in their first year varies depending on nutrition, environment, and overall herd health. A yearling doe must reach 80 pounds in weight to become sexually mature enough to enter a heat cycle. In Ohio some yearling does will breed each year.


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## threeten

saw a few SMALL yearlings at the start of bow season. some still had spots! figured that it backs up what Superconoe was pointing out.
made me wonder if that will continue in generations of deer- or straighten out in a season or two.
that a late fawn has a late doe that's bred later. that fawn comes in late and has a late fawn.....
or that a late fawn won't even come into heat and come into heat at the peak time with the majority of the other does the following season?


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## SelfTaught

I decided to hunt tonight just for fun to see some deer & I just missed the tree after shooting my buck on thanksgiving. Walking in the woods I stumbled upon a nice fresh scrape pretty cool to see.. Also cool seeing all the deer trails in the snow.


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## turkeyt

There are some good points from you guys. From studies the does are what the rut is about and they dictate it and the bucks are ready like dogs. From mid Oct. to say mid Feb. does will come in estrus. The late breeding depends on what Supercanoe talks about when the yearling does are big enough to breed. The rut can be graphed like a Christmas tree with the top being Nov.15 peak breeding . The bottom on the left is Oct. and the right is Jan. and Feb. and lead up to peak and then back down. Length of days causes the does to come in estrus and moon phase not as much although people will argue that. The reason length of days is important is because the does biological clock is determining when the fawn will be born. The biological clock wants that fawn to be born around June 1st. so it will be strong enough to make it through the winter months. That is why late fawns sometime die because they are just not strong enough for harsh weather.
I read a post about a guy and his friends from Ohio who wrote down the times of buck movement. He said when the sun set at 5:19 (regular time) they saw the most buck movement over several years he had written in his journal. (bucks cruising) He said when the sun set at the same time in Dec. for several days and then it changed by one minute that was the 2nd phase. Look it up and see if he was close. This year 5:19 was around the 7th or 8th of Nov. Did you guys see buck movement (cruising) in your area then? Just a few thoughts by ME.


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## Shad Rap

turkeyt said:


> There are some good points from you guys. From studies the does are what the rut is about and they dictate it and the bucks are ready like dogs. From mid Oct. to say mid Feb. does will come in estrus. The late breeding depends on what Supercanoe talks about when the yearling does are big enough to breed. The rut can be graphed like a Christmas tree with the top being Nov.15 peak breeding . The bottom on the left is Oct. and the right is Jan. and Feb. and lead up to peak and then back down. Length of days causes the does to come in estrus and moon phase not as much although people will argue that. The reason length of days is important is because the does biological clock is determining when the fawn will be born. The biological clock wants that fawn to be born around June 1st. so it will be strong enough to make it through the winter months. That is why late fawns sometime die because they are just not strong enough for harsh weather.
> I read a post about a guy and his friends from Ohio who wrote down the times of buck movement. He said when the sun set at 5:19 (regular time) they saw the most buck movement over several years he had written in his journal. (bucks cruising) He said when the sun set at the same time in Dec. for several days and then it changed by one minute that was the 2nd phase. Look it up and see if he was close. This year 5:19 was around the 7th or 8th of Nov. Did you guys see buck movement (cruising) in your area then? Just a few thoughts by ME.


Yes...that is the prime time every year...you will NEVER go wrong taking that week and either the week before or after off of work to be in the woods...you'll be money...majority of does will breed right down to the very same day/time each year...if I could, I would be in the woods every day from nov 1st to nov 15th...every single year.


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## crittergitter

Technically, there is no 2nd rut. There is one rut that begins in early October and ends around mid-December.


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## fastwater

crittergitter said:


> Technically, there is no 2nd rut. There is one rut that begins in early October and ends around mid-December.


Curious...what happens to those does not bred by mid December that come into full estrous in mid Jan. or Feb.?


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## crittergitter

fastwater said:


> Curious...what happens to those does not bred by mid December that come into full estrous in mid Jan. or Feb.?


* sigh *

So, you say your curious huh?


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## fastwater

crittergitter said:


> * sigh *
> 
> So, you say your curious huh?


Yes sir...curious ! 
I can see your point that 'technically' the whole process from the start of the 1st rut cycle till the end of the very last cycle could be considered 'the rut'. Agree that we could go a step further and classify what we often referr to as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd rut as phases of one big rut. 
But what sets the length of that 'one big rut'? What ends it in mid Dec.?

The reason I am curious is Ive killed a lot of bucks still chasing in late BP season and have watched rubs and scrapes that have been tended to at that time. I've been shed hunting or yote hunting clear up until mid to late Feb. and seen the same.


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## supercanoe

QDMA just emailed an article to me today about antler drop dates and testosterone level correlation, which is also tied to late rutting activity, which is all tied to herd health and buck/doe ratios. There's a ton of factors all tied together. I have seen some hot does in mid October with multiple bucks trailing her and fighting each other and so forth. Not normal pre-rut activity, but more along the lines of full breeding mode. It's always been between October 15-18. I am pretty sure that a small percentage of does will come into heat a month before the main rut. I have seen this enough times to convince me that there is a small early breeding period, the main rut, then the secondary ruts that we see later in the season.


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## Lowerider1029

supercanoe, Once while tracking a nice 8pt. that i arrowed, on Oct.18th. i jumped 4 different shooter bucks tending does. All were bigger than the one i shot. Never have i seen that since at that time of the year.


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## partlyable

turkeyt said:


> I read a post about a guy and his friends from Ohio who wrote down the times of buck movement. He said when the sun set at 5:19 (regular time) they saw the most buck movement over several years he had written in his journal. (bucks cruising) He said when the sun set at the same time in Dec. for several days and then it changed by one minute that was the 2nd phase. Look it up and see if he was close. This year 5:19 was around the 7th or 8th of Nov. Did you guys see buck movement (cruising) in your area then? Just a few thoughts by ME.


I was not in my stand but I had a picture of a shooter both the 7th and 8th this year within the last hour of legal light. This is why I always keep track information when I fish. Wish I could get out a little more often for the rut. This is very interesting information.


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## turkeyt

No bad time to be in the woods from Oct. to end of season. Never know when something will happen. Deer do 2 things and that's eat and breed. They eat more often than breed so be in the woods. Lol. You guys stay safe and have a Merry Christmas


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## walleye60

Was out hunting today 12-31-2016 and seen 2 bucks chasing a doe,is the second rut still going on?


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## T-180

2 days after Christmas there was an 8 point hanging around our yard & woods with a hot doe. Tail straight out & he had his nose up her rear off & on for 45 minutes. She lead him back into a thick part where we really couldn't see them & they were back there for hours.


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