# Charter Captian Guide License



## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

I felt Compelled to write this after my experience the last two weeks so this doesnt happen to someone else. I got busted last week for not having a GUIDE LICENSE. Now before anyone slams me I didnt know i needed one and felt horrible that I did not have one so much that i drove up to sandusky last Friday and got one even though i wont do a charter till next june. Just so you guys who are or want to be charter captians. YOU NEED ONE NO MATTER WHAT IF YOU CHARTERING ON LAKE ERIE FOR HIRE. Thats where i screwed up i thought it pertained to 6 pack charters with people owning there own boat. Me on the other hand dont own a boat and free lance but that doesnt matter. Just so you know the Fine is a MAX of a $ 1000.00 and 6 months in jail so that dont take it lightly. So please if you dont have one get one so you dont get busted like i did for being IGNORANT. I did talk to the Officer after the court hearing and told him that he should make this more public on charter forums and charter schools so more people are aware of this license he said that was a good idea and he would do that. I told him he would be surprised on how many people dont have them from the phone calls I made that are now getting them after what happened to me. Again im very sorry to the Ohio Division of Wildlife and i never intentially meant to do anything wrong. For $ 50.00 its a no brainer. Thanks for your time guys. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## roger23 (Mar 7, 2007)

GUIDE 
The Ohio fishing guide license and decal can be obtained only from the Sandusky office of the Ohio Division of Wildlife. The license and decal are annual, running from April 16th of one year through April 15th of the following year. The license fee is $50.00 per year.
Before an Ohio fishing guide license and decal can be issued, an applicant must submit (in person or by mail) an Ohio Lake Erie Fishing Guide License application to the Sandusky office. The following information is required on the application: name and address; county of residence; telephone number; birth date; social security number; place of dockage; name of boat (if there is one); registration or federal documentation number; boat length, and U.S. Coast Guard license number and date of expiration.
If you are applying for only an ice fishing guide license, disregard the information about the boat and Coast Guard license; unless, you are using an air boat. IF you are using an airboat to transport people to/from your ice shanties, a Coast Guard license will be required. Either way, you will need to know the number of ice shanties and the general area of use.
COAST GUARD LICENSE REQUIREMENTS
The Ohio Lake Erie Fishing Guide License Application, for first-time applicants, must be accompanied by their original or a notarized copy of the Coast Guard license. THEREAFTER, THE CURRENT ORIGINAL COAST GUARD LICENSE OR A NOTORIZED COPY MUST BE SUBMITTED ONLY WHEN THE COAST GUARD LICENSE IS RENEWED. If you mail a notarized copy in lieu of the original Coast Guard license, that notarized copy will be retained at the Sandusky office.
The Coast Guard requires a license of all people taking passengers for hire on the Great Lakes. Information concerning the U.S. Coast Guard license can be obtained by contacting:U.S. Coast Guard
Marine Safety Office
234 Summit St. or By going to the website @ www.uscg.mil/stcw
Toledo OH 43604
PHONE: (419) 418-6010
FOR ANYONE WISHING TO APPLY IN PERSON
THE LICENSES ARE ISSUED BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 8:00 A.M. AND 4:00 P.M.. THIS OFFICE IS CLOSED ON WEEKENDS AND HOLIDAYS.
We are now able to take cash, check, credit card, or money order for payments.
Please submit a check or money order made payable to OHIO DIVISION OF WILDLIFE along with the application if applying by mail. OHIO LAKE ERIE FISHING GUIDE LICENSE
The Division of Wildlifes Sandusky office address and phone number are:
Ohio Division of Wildlife
305 E. Shoreline Dr.
Sandusky OH 44870
Phone: (419) 625-8062


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

Gary
Sorry to hear your problem ! I run charters on my boat. But there are times that I use another captains extra boat. When I do I take my guides license with me and display on his boat. I have my guides license on a piece of plexiglass and attach with velcro. Have never got stopped but ? Remeber you must also carry your CG license with you. I take mine all the time even if I am not running a trip--Fun fishing with Father or brother or friends. Just in case the CG wants to push the issue that I am using a Charter Boat for my Fun fishing. 
Thats what I lot of guys forget If you take passengers and they pay for fuel and such it is considered a boat for hire and you should have a CG license. I know it seems wierd but thats the law.


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## brick (Sep 17, 2007)

what exactly defines a charter? If you take some friends and they throw in for gas and bait is that a charter? Seems kind of confusing. If the above applies then just about every boat out there is a charter.


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## Gju42486 (Mar 7, 2005)

brick said:


> what exactly defines a charter? If you take some friends and they throw in for gas and bait is that a charter? Seems kind of confusing. If the above applies then just about every boat out there is a charter.


the "legal" answer is yes. If you take any money for gas, bait, ect then your are "making money" and are for hire. That is the law, and yes- it is very hard to enforce


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## seethe303 (Dec 12, 2006)

should the law be enforced in that situation? I say no. If someone is just accepting some cash for gas and bait or whatever*, they aren't trying to turn a profit for putting people on fish. 


*Obviously they are certain things that are illegal to accept money for! Don't be caught in the next floating brothel scandal on Erie!


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

roger23 said:


> GUIDE
> The Ohio fishing guide license and decal can be obtained only from the Sandusky office of the Ohio Division of Wildlife. The license and decal are annual, running from April 16th of one year through April 15th of the following year. The license fee is $50.00 per year.
> Before an Ohio fishing guide license and decal can be issued, an applicant must submit (in person or by mail) an Ohio Lake Erie Fishing Guide License application to the Sandusky office. The following information is required on the application: name and address; county of residence; telephone number; birth date; social security number; place of dockage; name of boat (if there is one); registration or federal documentation number; boat length, and U.S. Coast Guard license number and date of expiration.
> If you are applying for only an ice fishing guide license, disregard the information about the boat and Coast Guard license; unless, you are using an air boat. IF you are using an airboat to transport people to/from your ice shanties, a Coast Guard license will be required. Either way, you will need to know the number of ice shanties and the general area of use.
> ...


If I read this correctly it is the Great Lakes that require a coast guard guide license. I know these are difficult and costly to get and require passing a significantly tough test reqarding navigation, plotting and such. Anyway, if a guy were interested in guiding on Ohio's inland lakes would he just need to obtain the $50 Ohio guide license with no extensive testing required?


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

i believe that on inland waters or waters not under coast guards jurisdiction, then no "captain's license" is required.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

Reading the above posted information, I do not see where individuals splitting costs for a day of fishing with the boat owner is illegal????

If you are making money...then yes...but splitting costs???


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## Toxic (May 13, 2006)

Gju42486 said:


> the "legal" answer is yes. If you take any money for gas, bait, ect then your are "making money" and are for hire. That is the law, and yes- it is very hard to enforce



If that's the case, damm near everyone on Erie is screwed and is violating the law Heck since I would be in violation, I might as well throw in an extra rod for everyone while I'm at it LOL  (joke from another thread).


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## Gju42486 (Mar 7, 2005)

Toxic said:


> If that's the case, damm near everyone on Erie is screwed and is violating the law Heck since I would be in violation, I might as well throw in an extra rod for everyone while I'm at it LOL  (joke from another thread).


exactly....but like i stated, its almost impossible to enforce this law.

Just another tidbit of info while we are on "strange" laws.........did you know that technically, the whole inner harbor in cleveland is a no wake zone?


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## leadcorebean (Jul 17, 2006)

i always wondered that.. now is that something that has to be posted?


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

boatnut said:


> i believe that on inland waters or waters not under coast guards jurisdiction, then no "captain's license" is required.


Mike I'll have to check on that ? But i do not think that is the case if you are taking customers for hire ? I do know that a ice guide with no airboat does'nt need a six pack CG license but with the airboat he does. Now if you where guiding with out a boat I would say yes but add the boat ? I'll have to look it up ? See you at WC dinner ??? Leaving soon ?


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

Gary,
dont be too hard on yourself. Its not well advertised that you have to have the guide license. I would hope this was just a chance encountering rather than you being a victim of a watchdog group that passes the names of folks around that have or dont have their licenses, can you believe people put the time and effort into having such a list?? Neither can I. I dont know you well Gary but from what I do know you are a stand up guy thats always been open and honest with me. I give you props for having the stones to post your experience.


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## brick (Sep 17, 2007)

no wonder ther are so many lawyers in this country. By that definition If I tell the neighbor kid fishing my pond "use a silver minnow around the reeds and you'll catch some bass". 
I have guided him and need a license to do so. To carry that a step further if he doesn't catch any fish am I still a guide. I would hope that common sense on the part of law enforcement prevails in most situations.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

> can you believe people put the time and effort into having such a list?? Neither can I.


If I was a charter captain, licensed, experienced, paid up on all my tags, certifications, etc. etc.....and I found out that a guy was taking people out fishing and charging them for it...and he was NOT licensed...and he was undercutting the average charter rate...and I repeat...not licensed to charter...

You bet your butt I'd be pizzed off. 

Not saying this is what happened in this case...but this is for sure what happened to two guys that were doing as described above in Ludington a couple years ago. 

The Charter Association turned 'em in...and it wasn't pretty for either of them.

So was Gary charging or not????


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

BFG fyi i have a coast guard captians license i was unaware ot the guide license needed in the state of ohio for chartering on lake erie only not inland. I posted my experience so people would not that there is such a thing and yes you do need one. Like Brian said its not well advertise that you do and thats what i had to conversation with at court with the guy you ticketed me that they really need to advertise this more and gave him ideas on how to do so. Like i said there is many out there that dont know so i hope this helps them. take care Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

Thanks for posting your experience Gary. Hopefully it will let others know the legalities. I'm just sorry you had to go through it to get the info out. 

May your helpfulness to those who post/read here be returned a hundred-fold.


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## Islander26 (Sep 25, 2007)

Thank You, Gary,I have my CG license had no idea I needed a Guide license, in fact 3-4 weeks i talked to 3 captains about it and they never said i needed to have it. This will come to a surprise to alot of folks. Thanks again


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

BFG,
I am a licensed captain and I do have all my stuff paid etc but to hear of a group (thats not an enforcement agence ie USCG or ODNR) targeting you and keeping track of whether or not you are licensed is a bit like some form of government or cult to me, thats what I meant by that. By the way, there have been threads on here on accusing "newbies" or smaller guys of undercutting the "VETERANS" or "PROS" that charter, if Joe Charter captain wants to take people out for free thats his business and nobody elses, free enterprise sums that up.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

Brian,

The two people that I referenced were not licensed in any way, shape, or form...and they were charging folks...that was my point. Unfair to those who have paid their fees, licensure, etc. etc.


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## tpat (Apr 4, 2008)

the odnr requires these licensed guides to tally and report all fish caught. if you dont report on time, there is a penalty. nothing like having to pay to be put to work. i suppose this helps the odnr compile their fishing reports they post on their web site, but i am not sure what else this really accomplishes. you will see this regulation in other states also.

p.s. gary, hopefully they let you out of the big house in time for the 09 spawn.


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## hunt-n-fish (Jun 19, 2007)

Gju42486 said:


> exactly....but like i stated, its almost impossible to enforce this law.
> 
> Just another tidbit of info while we are on "strange" laws.........did you know that technically, the whole inner harbor in cleveland is a no wake zone?


I believe in the interruption, the government are looking for people who actually are profiting from what they say you are doing, and that's fishing. I know wildlife officers and it's not the idea that people are helping out with the expenses, but those who profit from it monetarily. Regardless what it says, the law covers a large general area of great lakes boating and fishing. The officers know, as well as some already stated, everyone could in some form be in violation. Hey it's pretty simple, trying to make money and you don't have a license, your wrong.


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## Trump Tight (Apr 23, 2006)

Along with your USCG License, Guide License, and Insurance you need a Drug Card and belong to a Drug Consortium. Don't go out there half steppin.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

thanks for the info gary, sorry you found out the hard way. eariler this year when george was getting his CG license, i didnt have the time to attend the school in sandusky with him, so i emailed the CG and asked about just getting a guide license to take paying customers out fishing, the return email said i just needed to have a 6 pack CG license to take paying customers out on lake erie, it NEVER said im needed the guide license too?? id say you did nothing wrong, just uninformed...as was the person who returned my email.


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## MikeC (Jun 26, 2005)

Appreciate the post, Blue Dolphin, and for keeping us informed.

With that being said, if I send my wife in to buy the bait, I'm guiding, huh? WHAT BALONEY.


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## chaunc (Apr 11, 2004)

Thanks for the info Gary. Why is everyone whining and moaning about this? You know as well as i do that this wont change the way you've been doing things. Interpet it the way you choose. It's not a complicated issue. If you do it for profit, then you'll need a permit. Otherwise, keep doing what you've been doing. This thread can ugly real quick.


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## MikeC (Jun 26, 2005)

George, if you could, would you please site the specfic laws you have reference to? 

Thank you, MikeC


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## true2plue (Jul 12, 2004)

MikeC said:


> Appreciate the post, Blue Dolphin, and for keeping us informed.
> 
> With that being said, if I send my wife in to buy the bait, I'm guiding, huh? WHAT BALONEY.


I think that it's very simple. If you advertise as a guide, then you need a charter license.


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

BFG,
I understand, I was just extending what you said to an experience I had being FULLY licensed etc that dealt with the same exact issues you brought up. 

TPAT,
wow thats another bit I never was made aware of having to tally the number of fish harvested this year on my rig!!!

As far as drug consortiums go, I was NEVER told that it was mandatory to join one. My understanding was that it was just as in insurance policy in case you get randomly picked by USCG for a drug test. 

It should automaic that this type of info needs to be regulated when someone is doing considering or getting their license.


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## tambora (Jun 15, 2008)

Same thing happened to me!In2006 I spent 5wknds.&close to 3500 bucks going to school,forming anLLc.,getting commercial insurance,drug card,etc.Got uscg.lic. in May.,started to advertise put signs on truck,happy to be doing what I love&getting paid.Had a chater in june ,2 guys,fished all day ,livewell pumps kept blowing fuses,while I,m changing fuses they are catching fish,I count fish need 6 more,get them head for dock.Load boat,get paid,here comes 2 game wardens,did you take these guys fishing for pay? Yes,where is money?In my pocket.Do you have USCG.lic.?Yes,it is in my boat,showed it to them along with all other necessary papers.You got an Ohio guide lic.? No,didn,t know I needed it!Where do I need to go & what do I have to have & I,ll go get it today!Tell it to the Judge,here is your ticket&give me the money as evidence!Now I,m pissed,after all I,ve done to get this Lic. not 1 word being said about an Oh. guide lic.I,m gettin popped!Next question,how many fish you got ?18,I,m thrownin them in a bucket,chatterin like a red squirrel cause I,m pissed,warden dumps them out says you got 19,who caught the last fish?I,m trying to start a business,I,m not gonna say 1 of my clients caught it,give me that ticket too!Now I,m really pissed,very next day ,post 65 bucks for fish over limit,go to Sandusky get Oh. guide lic.took 2min.Next wk. go to court ,plead no contest, just want to pay fine &start over!Judge orders a presentce investigation,go to probation dept. & fill out all this paper work&come back to court in 6wks!Now I,m really pissed again,I,ve never had anything worse than a speeding ticket& they are treating me like a child molester!Go to court again,plead no contest, don,t say anything in my defense just want to pay fine & go home!Judge says 300 &costs suspended 10 days in jail !Go to the clerk to pay fine hand her receipt for money taken as evidence to pay ,she says we don,t know anything about this it isn,t part of the evidence in your case you have to pay the whole thing & call the DNR about your money!Now I ,m really pissed again!Call Sandusky they say if Judge didn,t order it returned it was forfieted,I say Judge couldn,t order it anything cause it wasn,t part of evidence in my case!You are not getting money back.Next day I,m going to Colo. elk hunting gone for 2 wks. get out of mts. call wife who took up torch while I was gone ,she has called everyone in the DNR &finally someone tells her the truth,the 2 guys I took fishing all day were undercover game wardens,they knew before they booked me I didn,t have my guide lic.I,m convinced they put the extra fish in my livewell while I was working on the fuses because my wife asked about it & the answer was,after catching our limit I said we have time to get 1 more!No way did I say that!!!Bottom line is this,the DNR saw fit to take 4 wardens out of enforcement for the day to bust me over a 50 dollar lic.they knew I didn,t have!The whole thing cost me about 900 bucks by the time I drove to Port Clinton for 4 times payed fines & lost the money they took from me which by the way the last time I went to court the Judge said he knew about the money and I wasn,t getting it back!That isn,t true because I have copys of all of the evidence in my case & the money isn,t there!Now I know how O.J. got off so easy,if people in law enforcement will go to this extreme to bust me over a50 dollar lic.I didn,t just because of ignorance then there is not limit to what they will do!It is obivious to me & anyone with an ounce of common sense that I wouldn,t have blown off a 50 dollar lic after spending as much time,money,&effort to get everything else I needed.The ironic thing about all this is that 3 days after getting busted for this I went school the entire wknd. to become a volunteer Hunter Ed. Instructor for the DNR!I,m ashamed to be assoc. with the egomaniacs that couldn,t come up with a better way to spend our money than what they did to me! Capt. Dick Brayton OHIO LICENSED GUIDE!


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## Reel Bad Habit (Feb 9, 2007)

Trump Tight said:


> Along with your USCG License, Guide License, and Insurance you need a Drug Card and belong to a Drug Consortium. Don't go out there half steppin.


The newest one is the TSA license so we can transport terrorist into the country. The list goes on and on. It has very little to do with laws and a lot to do with grabbing money.


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## tpat (Apr 4, 2008)

heres a link to the ORC stuff. there is a link you can click on to view the requirements for daily fish reporting...

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501:31-3-11


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## MikeC (Jun 26, 2005)

Thanks tpat for the link. That answered my question.





true2plue said:


> I think that it's very simple. If you advertise as a guide, then you need a charter license.



I think the question on the table is a Guide License. It doesn't sound simple to me.

OAC:
1501:31-3-11 Fishing guides 

(C) It shall be unlawful for any individual to operate on lake erie as a fishing guide without possessing a valid Ohio fishing guide license. Provided further, persons properly licensed as a fishing guide shall be exempt from keeping catch reports as required in section 1533.511 of the Revised Code.



http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501:31-1-02

OO) Fishing guide means any person who, for consideration or hire, operates a boat, rents, leases, or otherwise furnishes angling devices, ice fishing shanties or shelters of any kind, or other fishing equipment, and accompanies, guides, directs, or assists any other person, in order for the other person to engage in fishing.


The "for consideration" seems pretty all-encompassing and puts all sharing, splitting or other "consideration" within the term of "Fishing guide." Pretty much takes care of trading trips too. 



I just don't think this is proper and again leaves us open to overzealous law enforcement and if they're not going to enforce it they don't need the law on the books


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## hunt-n-fish (Jun 19, 2007)

Reel Bad Habit said:


> The newest one is the TSA license so we can transport terrorist into the country. The list goes on and on. It has very little to do with laws and a lot to do with grabbing money.


Are you speaking about the federal id in the form of a TWIC card? Just more redundancy with the federal govt. They have information on you when renewing/aquiring a USCG license with finger prints, etc., then if you go to Canada you need a I-68, plus a passport. Just to much redundancy.


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## tambora (Jun 15, 2008)

I went to Toledo for my TWIC card 135 bucks,80 bucks gas up &back, they can,t mail it to you cause they have to match the fingerprints you just gave them along with everything else but your first born to the ones on the card!So another 80 bucks in gas ,now I,ve got 300 dollars wrapped up in a card that for me has no purpose!The overeducated morons that come up with these blanket policies have zero common sense!We just want to go fishin!


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## Trump Tight (Apr 23, 2006)

1) I have my USCG LICENSE.
2) I have my Ohio Guide LICENSE.
3) I have my Boat Insurance.
4) I have my $135.00 TWIC Card.
5) I have my DRUG CARD.
6) I belong to a DRUG CONSORTIUM.
7) I am a member in the NORTH COAST CHARTER BOAT ASSOCIATION
8) OHIO FISHING LICENSE.

NOW I AM A CHARTER BOAT CAPTAIN, FISHING GUIDE, L.E.C.B.A. ASSOCIATE MEMBER, OGF MEMBER AND A REGULAR GUY, WITH EVERYTHING COVERED. NEW CAPTAINS READ THE ABOVE.


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## tomb (Oct 9, 2004)

Something I haven't seen metioned here. There are multiple gov't agencies involved. If you call the Coast Guard as EZbite did, they are proably telling you all they are concerned with. The ODNR having it's own separate liscensing regulations seems also only concerned with such.


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

Ive gathered that if you ARENT in a consortium and get called by the CG to get a drug test its on your dime (never that you are in any jeopardy of being charged criminally) but have heard you are required to be. An association picks up the tab if you are a member and they call you for a random test. 

It only makes perfect sense to get in a charter boat association---I just would like to have a for sure answer--


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## bassmastermjb (Apr 8, 2004)

TRUMP, does the charter license cover you for fishing also, or do you also need a valid fishing license as non charters?..............Mark


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## Reel Bad Habit (Feb 9, 2007)

B Thomas said:


> Ive gathered that if you ARENT in a consortium and get called by the CG to get a drug test its on your dime (never that you are in any jeopardy of being charged criminally) but have heard you are required to be. An association picks up the tab if you are a member and they call you for a random test.
> 
> It only makes perfect sense to get in a charter boat association---I just would like to have a for sure answer--


Brian, In my experiences the CG only asks for your drug card when you are being checked, the testing is done by the consortium you belong to so I think you must be enrolled in a consortium to be in CG compliance. Year end reports are sent by the consortium to the CG to keep you in compliance.
You surely do need an Ohio fishing license to fish while opperating a charter. I don't understand why it is so hard to make a profit in this business. Maybe I should have said I don't know how to make a profit in this business.


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

hunt-n-fish said:


> Are you speaking about the federal id in the form of a TWIC card? Just more redundancy with the federal govt. They have information on you when renewing/aquiring a USCG license with finger prints, etc., then if you go to Canada you need a I-68, plus a passport. Just to much redundancy.


The New TWIC card will do away with the I-68 plus it is good for more than one year ? I thought I read 5 years but ? I haven't got mine yet!


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## hunt-n-fish (Jun 19, 2007)

hearttxp said:


> The New TWIC card will do away with the I-68 plus it is good for more than one year ? I thought I read 5 years but ? I haven't got mine yet!


The TWIC card and I-68 are totally separate forms of ID and under circimstances, can be both required. It doesn't relieve any burden when checking back in w/US customs and cannot be used in place of a I-68.

*The I-68 * is for boarder crossings only. As a angler, you don't need one if you stay in US waters, only necessary when going into Canada. To put it more plainly, it means you are pre-approved with US Customs (a Div. of Homeland Security) for Canadian boarder crossings when returning to US.
and makes the check-in process simpler when checking in with a customs agent when returning home (US waters) from Canada after you, the operator, touched any "dry land" in Canada. Everyone who touchs land, private or not, must have a I-68. Might I add, if you didn't check-in w/Canadian customs, then there's no need to check in when returning back to US. This includes just crossing the boarder, fishing or cruising only, w/o making land.

*TWIC* is necessary in the event charter boats enter/dock near or possibly entering in a secured or sensitive area and pre-approves you when entering these areas. Only the operator of the vessel needs one. This card ID is NOT JUST for charter captains only, any land based transit entity (including private) that moves people or passengers, must have one as well. Charters boats are not actually defined as commercial by the US government, but being for hire that have passengers on board. The TWIC agency is also under the Div. of Homeland Security. TWIC stands for "Transit Worker Identification Credentials".


All charter captains are required even if you don't fish/enter/moor around a sensitive area. It's because you MAY and that you carry passengers for hire. It's easier then saying this one needs a card and this one doesn't. Require them all to need one is muck simpler. Private boaters DO NOT need a TWIC and the difference here seems to be if you have a USCG license and are operating under your license while have paying clients on-board vs. a private boater going fishing or cruising, even if you have people on-board, and yes even with shared expenses, makes no difference.


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## true2plue (Jul 12, 2004)

I would encourage all Charter Captains to attend the annual Lake Erie Charter Boat meeting next year. I don't have the exact date, but I think it will be some time in March. Alot of useful information is presented, and keeps you updated with all changes made throughout the year. I have gone the last 5 years, and have learned something new every year!


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## Trump Tight (Apr 23, 2006)

Reel Bad Habit said:


> Brian, In my experiences the CG only asks for your drug card when you are being checked, the testing is done by the consortium you belong to so I think you must be enrolled in a consortium to be in CG compliance. Year end reports are sent by the consortium to the CG to keep you in compliance.
> You surely do need an Ohio fishing license to fish while opperating a charter. I don't understand why it is so hard to make a profit in this business. Maybe I should have said I don't know how to make a profit in this business.


You fish 6 months and pay the loan 12 months. Its a great tax shelter. Do the math.


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

There is a VERY good chance the TWIC card for charter captains will be repealed before you are required to have one in April next year.
You MUST belong to a drug consortium and be subject to random testing or you CANNOT run charters. If you use a first mate they must also be in a drug program.
You cannot guide out of a boat on Lake Erie in Ohio waters without a USCG license and a Guide's license from Ohio.
Accepting money to cover reasonable expenses is NOT chartering and has been ruled such in court. That means you can take money to cover expenses not a profit. So if you take 5 guys out and take $40 bucks from each you are probably going to be smacked for chartering without a license (unless you can prove you had costs of more than that for the day). But get $20 or so for gas and bait and no judge is going to think you're making a profit unless he hasn't priced gas lately LOL
Remember you are dealing with more than the Coast Guard. Questions contact the CG, ODNR, LECBA and Fred Snyder who usually hosts the annual Charter Captains meeting in the spring.


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

Hey Rod bender shed some light on where you heard or saw in writing that the TXIC will be repealed ? They already pushed it back from this year once. I haven't heard anything lately ?


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

fish 6 months???? The lake sure isnt froze for the other 6!


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## Boomn4x4 (Oct 24, 2008)

Mike, Ohio law is sketcy because Federal Law trumps it....

United States Code - Title 46, Section 2101, Paragraph 5a, and 21a.

21a States - &#8220;passenger for hire&#8221; means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel. 

5a States - &#8220;consideration&#8221; means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity,* but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies*. 


Contrary to what Gju42486, sharing costs does not make it illegal to operate without a gudie license or a captains license... In fact, Federal laws explicitly defines that it is legal to share expenses.

... I can't post the URL (less than 5 posts) to the actual code but a google search for "United States Code Title 46 Section 2101" will take you right to it.




MikeC said:


> I think the question on the table is a Guide License. It doesn't sound simple to me.
> 
> OAC:
> 1501:31-3-11 Fishing guides
> ...


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## MikeC (Jun 26, 2005)

Wow, that's amazing. Thanks for the information, and your first post. To me, sharing expenses is just that, sharing expenses. I just don't see the guiding part of that and I was sort of wondering whether that's really "consideration." Stuff's too deep for me. Again, thanks for the info.


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## Bob Why (Jul 16, 2004)

George, When did they quit enforcing this: " Just another tidbit of info while we are on "strange" laws.........did you know that technically, the whole inner harbor in Cleveland is a no wake zone?" I know when I was a lot younger that they enforced it. The inner harbors used to be a safe place for the small boats to get out around the light house to fish for perch. Back when I was a kid, my dad and uncle would take us out in a 12ft aluminum deep V and catch a boat load of perch out there. Wouldn't want to try it today. We probably only had about 9" of boat out of the water. I know that if we were using spreaders that the one hook could be in the water while you baited the other. And sometimes the perch would come up and steal that minnow.


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

hearttxp, there are several organizations working on the TWIC problem including LECBA. I have written and called Ohio's senators and my rep and all have said they think it is wrong (stupid) and Sen. Brown's rep called me last week and told me he was very "confident" charters would be removed. If it doesn't happen it will just be another example of government bungling,


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## Fishcally Irresponsible (Mar 11, 2006)

Don't forget your CPR Certification and your First Aid Card. 
The list goes on and on......


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## capt S (Sep 5, 2007)

Wow!! how did you not know u needed a guides license!! well i bet you will get it next year.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

More importantly how did 10-15 other guys not know as well.


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## Moonlighter (Jun 20, 2006)

I'd guess that the one's that didn't should of asked any of the other 100's or 1,000's of Captains that did.


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

If you dont have any idea about having it why would you ask ?

Its a done deal, no need to keep rehashing it


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## Moonlighter (Jun 20, 2006)

My point was only to say my hats off to the Captains that got it right from the start is all; that's what I see as a more important issue. Not the ignorance turned into applause for the one or few that that didn't!


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

Moonlighter you must lead a perfect life with no mistakes please write a book on how you do that and im sure youll makes millions and make sure you share the wealth. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## Islander26 (Sep 25, 2007)

Moonlighter said:


> My point was only to say my hats off to the Captains that got it right from the start is all; that's what I see as a more important issue. Not the ignorance turned into applause for the one or few that that didn't!


 If we could get by arrogance of some it would be worth the time to talk about there ignorance, you have no clue what is important. What is important is Gary has shared his experence with the forum so others will not have a problem,GET IT!! Captain Keith Phillips


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## true2plue (Jul 12, 2004)

Where's Misfit when you need him!! Listen...I think this shows what kind of a person Gary is. He didn't hide behind a bush, or try to deny the fact that he messed up, but wanted others to learn from his mistake. To me that sounds like a stand up human being! Take it for what it's worth!

Tony


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## Nikster (Mar 14, 2007)

What a BUM deal read 'Blue Dolphin & Tambora' escapade & it seems that when they wanna get you they will under any means.

Now when I go on any trip with my boat, all parties involved pay their share. From start to finish, if there are 3 we split ALL 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. if there are 4, then its 1/4, 1/4, 1/4 1/4;
eg. all gas, lodging, food, ice etc.etc. sharhed equally by ALL. 

My Boat, My Gear, My Car, 

Now here is the question? ( Igive a rats arse) But... in a technical issue, nit-pickin, if they wanted to they could fine me also???? Ya Think?????


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## rod bender bob (May 19, 2004)

NIKSTER, I don't think there is any question -- no! You are just splitting expenses, not making a profit. Hell, I charge for charters and I can barely make a profit LOL





Nikster said:


> What a BUM deal read 'Blue Dolphin & Tambora' escapade & it seems that when they wanna get you they will under any means.
> 
> Now when I go on any trip with my boat, all parties involved pay their share. From start to finish, if there are 3 we split ALL 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. if there are 4, then its 1/4, 1/4, 1/4 1/4;
> eg. all gas, lodging, food, ice etc.etc. sharhed equally by ALL.
> ...


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## Tommybouy (Jun 5, 2005)

This thread was very informative from the start. 

Tambora situation sounds like entrapment. If authorities receive information you may not have any component of the req'd licenses they ought to use that information to inform you of a potential infraction as opposed to set you up failure. If they inform you and than checking with you later to assure obtainment of the license would seem fair / appropriate. IMO if anyone were chartering with greater infractions; that would seem like neglegence and would deserve any / all penalties.

Blue Dolphin thank you for sharing your experience. This information was an example of being a good steward of the profession and sport. 

I have charter buddies who pay someone a couple hundred a year to prepare paperwork and assure all forms, procedures and licenses are obtained/completed to assure compliance. Now I see why...


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