# Flathead leaders



## ajangsta04

I'm planning on hitting the Ohio tomorrow night for some frog faces.. I'm using an 8 foot heavy Rod with an Abu Garcia record spooled with 85lb power pro braid. My question is, how long of a leader should I run? And what line should I use for that leader?

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## bigcatjoe

Leader should be at least as heavy or heavier than your main line, and length depends on snags and cover. Shorter leader around heavier cover.

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## M.Magis

Let me ask what you want the leader to accomplish? There's no *need *for a leader, so to determine what type would work best for you, one needs to know the reason you want to use one.


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## Curtis937

I'd say your line is strong enough with out the steel leaders they just get in the way and flat heads ESP. will drop your bait if they feel extra weight...there good if your targeting gar or something with big sharp teeth like it
..I've never had a big cat cut through my line 

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## JimmyMac

If your using 85lb PP I'd go with a heavy mono leader, perhaps 40-50lb mono. I'd do it just for the sake of saving sinkers, hooks are much cheaper. Personally I run 40lb mono and use the same line to make my leaders, no real rhyme or reason to it, just what I've always done and never had any issues. I like my leaders right around 8-10 inches, again no real reason for it, just what I like. I like use a good heavy barrel swivel, I know a lot of guys don't even use a swivel/leader at all, but to me it seems like running the same line from your reel to the hook is asking for nasty line twists, that is where the swivel comes in handy.


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## lark101_1999

i use to not use a leader, then the guy next to me caught more blues per trip than i was so now i use a 20 inch mono leader. for a long time i just used a hook and sinker


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## ajangsta04

i bought some 40lb test line to use as a leader for now. I've been running about 18 inch leaders with a 5/0 - 8/0 circle hooks.

I was out at the Ohio river this past weekend sat and sunday with a few nice channel cats. Also had multiple nibbles and runs on live bait but no hook up.

do flatheads roam areas with high concentration of channel cats?

The area i fish has all sorts of small bait fish (shad, skipjacks, small stripers, etc.
I've been fishing tail waters 5-10ft deep.


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## pendog66

ajangsta04 said:


> i bought some 40lb test line to use as a leader for now. I've been running about 18 inch leaders with a 5/0 - 8/0 circle hooks.
> 
> I was out at the Ohio river this past weekend sat and sunday with a few nice channel cats. Also had multiple nibbles and runs on live bait but no hook up.
> 
> do flatheads roam areas with high concentration of channel cats?
> 
> The area i fish has all sorts of small bait fish (shad, skipjacks, small stripers, etc.
> I've been fishing tail waters 5-10ft deep.


Find wood and rock piles


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## throbak

100 lb Powerpro 50 lb leaders all you loose is leaders when hung


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## pendog66

unless you have rods that are able to support 50 lb test and up its kinda pointless to use heavier than 30 or 40. I use 30 pound Vicious main line and 40 pound Stren for the leader. The Stren usually breaks before the Vicious


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## pendog66

tk1fisherman said:


> thats why you need good poles and reels i like a shimano terez rod rated for 100 lb and a shimano saragosa 18000 rated 44 lbs of drag lol hang on i use 80 lb braid 50 or 60 flouro leader u dont need that much rod or reel to catch catfish but if u just try to target big fish like state rec flats then u should def get heavy gear


no question on using good gear. I was just referring to the guys i see that are fishing 80 lb power pro on rods rated for 20-40 lb. I have rods rated up to 100 lb but just keep those for ocean fishing. For gmr and lakes i use baitrunners and abu 6500s and penn 310s. No need to go any bigger


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## M.Magis

There&#8217;s no need to use 100 lb gear for flatheads, no matter how big. 30 lb gear will land almost every flathead hooked by an experienced angler. The ones that get away will be due to getting hung up in structure, and that has nothing to do with gear size. Hooks will pull out before most lines break. I doubt many people have ever felt what 30+ lbs of force feels like on a fishing rod. The biggest flatheads don&#8217;t pull half that hard. You have to go to salt water, or sturgeon fishing, to find a need to 100 lb gear. It certainly isn&#8217;t needed for flatheads, or any fish in Ohio.


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## M.Magis

Like I said, a hook will pull before 30lb line breaks, in most cases. There&#8217;s not excuse to go under gunned, but there&#8217;s also no reason to tell people they need to use 100 lb gear. More than any other group of fishermen, catfishermen seem to over-estimate their target. When compared to fishes throughout the world, they&#8217;re quite small and don&#8217;t fight all that hard, relative to size. 
With the money you&#8217;d save on over sized gear, you could buy yourself a good scale.


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## M.Magis

tk1fisherman said:


> thats why you need good poles and reels





tk1fisherman said:


> u should def get heavy gear


Maybe I misunderstood these statements? With your lack of grammar, that's certainly possible. 

I doesnt much matter to me what you use, but Id hate for anyone new to get the idea that 100 lb gear is needed, because it most certainly isnt. If I was the mine is bigger type, I could post a few pages worth of pictures to show that 30lb gear works fine since you like to show that one picture as your proof. But then if I was the mine is bigger type Id be using 100 lb gear.. 
Alls good, the end results is the same for all of us. How we get there is up to us.


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## M.Magis

I didn&#8217;t understand all that gibberish, but I take it I upset you? My mistake, I see now you joined so as to brag and impress everyone with your knowledge and gear. Hmm, sure sounds familiar&#8230;.. 
Like I said, I don&#8217;t care what you choose to use. Just tell the truth, you use big gear because it makes you feel better, not because it&#8217;s necessary. You certainly aren&#8217;t the only one.


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## ducky152000

Wow! I dont check the cat fourm for 2 days and I get to miss a good argument! Magis is right most catmen go overboard when it comes to tackle. It sounds like you do Too, and dont like the idea of another experienced flathead fishermen to say you are. Im guessing you are fairly new to the sport, caught a nice fish on big ocean gear and think thats the only way, because thats how you caught the fish. Ive caught 50 lb Plus fish and magis has caught way more than I. We seem to do ok with 30lb gear.


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## Joey209

I use 30 lb mono and I cant remember the last time I had a fish break me off that didnt get hung up. After numerous 30 & 40 lbers and a 50lber I have no reason whatsoever to beef up my tackle. 

Notice my use of periods to represent the ending of sentences?


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## pendog66

tk1fisherman said:


> is that a paylake cat in your pic


haha thats funny.... Joe, Brock, and Magis are as legit as you can get.


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## monsterKAT11

tk1, it seems like in 19 posts you've managed to burn bridges with the most knowledgeable flathead guys on this forum (averaging a couple thousand posts each). congrats!


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## ducky152000

tk1fisherman said:


> they dont fight the same in a paylake there almost dead


Hahahah, yeah bud you got us figured out! How did you find out?


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## Joey209

tk1fisherman said:


> im not telling anyone anything they told me im worng for the way i like to fish i guess they think i have never tried there way or am some sort of beginer thats fine ill have my friends come on here post there pics and stories and then ill have people on here to back up my claims and just cause u been on this site for 7 or 8 years iv been fishing much longer then that i have cought many big fish not just cats i do love using light tackel on steelhead salmon smallmouth not sure why but i just love stopping big flats dead in there tracks please go look at a terez 6"9 spinning rod rated for 100lb braid witch means rod would be rated for about 40 lb mono real light rod and so is the 7"2 rated for 80 both great catfish rods look at the team catfish poles or ugly sticks war rods whatever then u tell me who is using a bigger or move heavy rod i do respect anyone willing to put in the time to catch big flats in my 20 + years of trying i know its not easy and can go nights even weeks with out a good fish for people that like the light gear nothing wrong with it and most flats u hook up will be a much fun fight on light gear i cought a nice flat on a med action triumph rated 6 12 lb line had 14 lb fireline on a 2500 size sustain fish was about 20 lbs cought in river best fight i ever had with a cat the 50 + one 1 cought a few weeks ago i put in the boat in under 5 min not a great fight but when i land next state rec im not looking to be fair as for trying to burn a bridge not looking to sorry if i upset anyone i think its crazy i have to defend the way i fish people talking about my rods they prob have never seen 1 in person if so theres no way they would say big giant ocean pole if anything seems like people on here look for new people to this site just to tell them they are wrong with out ever even knowin anything about that person i would love to here about flats u guys catch and how tackel used baits so on


Longest........... sentence...........ever


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## monsterKAT11

tk1fisherman said:


> i guess this is why my friends say never to post anything u catch. My bad will try to remove all pics and post keep how i fish to myself just a buch of haters big glass of hateraid drink up


Hey man, in all fairness you're the one who started calling people a joke when they were simply disagreeing with you and trying to make you understand why their views were different. It was on it's way back around; although I do enjoy a nice cool glass of hateraide every once in a while


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## bigdogsteve-o

tk1fisherman said:


> were is the monsters at


Swimming around with broken jaws from idiots whipping/dragging them up in heavy current with 100 lb line?????

....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

That should catch you up on what you have been posting....:Banane32:


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## pendog66

oh look now we have a regular Dr. Seuss on MonsterKats Profile...TK "i was fishing in bagdad when u was in your dads bag"

And we wonder why catfisherman are profiled as Dim witted, ********, that would rather drink than fish....


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## bigdogsteve-o

tk1fisherman said:


> the fish i cought on 80 lb line was fine out of water for maybe 3 min didnt take it to bait shop for pics or even out of boat might wanna know what u are talking about


Oh gosh a seminar..... please tell me more huckleberry :cyclops:


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## Joey209

tk1fisherman said:


> did you give your fish mouth to mouth before u put it back


 Naw.I dont kiss on the mouth after sex :bananalama:


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## bigcatjoe

Seems the empty can rattles the most. Insulting some of the best flathead fisherman in the state certainly is a show of knowledge tk.

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## pendog66

tk1fisherman said:


> were is the monsters at


The picture is sooo small how do we know your not one of those little fellers holding a 10 #er....


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## pendog66

tk1fisherman said:


> i guess that makes your like *3 maybe 4 lbs* but nice fish keep trying one day you will get a 10


are you talking about the weight of my fish or your head??? I have my guess


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## fisherman33

tk, I think you picked the wrong forum to puff your chest because many guys that have posted in this thread are great fisherman who put their time in every year. Making yourself look foolish by trying to insult some of these guys and calling them names like a child.


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## cattin15

"Mr. Madison,what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points,and may God have mercy on your soul." -Principal from Billy Madison.

TK..show some respect for a bunch of guys that have spent days of time on the water chasing flatheads.

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## ducky152000

This is getting boring! Catch some flatheads guys! We need a new topic lol. Just remember to take ocean gear, 100 lb line,and 12/0 hooks! I got geese to kill for awhile, but ill be back at it after the 15th.


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## cattin15

I wont even fish for them until the river goes up a little. Channels are keepin me busy now 

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## flathunter

My three biggest flats all over 50lbs came on 25lb test mono..I might go as high as 30lb at times..and i use the same leader as my main line....i have to agree with magis 100 percent.

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## E_Lin

tk1fisherman said:


> your right just got my first pole anyone on here know how to catch fish iv been trying bubble gum for bait its not working to well maybe 1 day i can catch catfish to u say to use 12/0 hooks and 100lb line ok ill try it


Do you chew the bubble gum first or leave it raw to keep all its flavor?


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## M.Magis

tk1fisherman said:


> i ues mono to did you know that 30 lb momois line has a break strength of 50 lbs ill bet not to many of you know that


Not many know that because its not true. Most lines end up testing over their line class rating, but not by that much. Did you test that line with the same scales you weigh your fish with? Hmmm.? 
One more time, and Ill type slowly in hopes you understand what Im saying. I never said you were doing something wrong, what you use to fish with is up to you. But when you tell people they need to buy bigger and more expensive gear to be successful, I want to make sure any new fishermen know thats not true in any way. Oh, theres a big difference between 100 lb rods and just using 100 lb line. 
You continue to dig yourself a hole with your lack of grammar and childish remarks, not to mention youre making it abundantly clear that you dont know half of what you think you do. There are a lot of knowledgeable fishermen here that are more than willing to pass along information, but you arent getting off to a good start.


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## M.Magis

Not spelling, punctuation. Use a period once in a while for crying out loud. It's nearly impossible to read and comprehend a 400 word sentence. 
I&#8217;ll be honest, I don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re talking about when you say I&#8217;m wrong about you spending a lot of time or money to catch fish. I have no idea what that means. And sorry, I just don&#8217;t have any interest to have some sort of childish contest &#8220;for money&#8221;. I fish because I enjoy it, not for something to brag about.


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## pendog66

tk1fisherman said:


> wow ok u just keep telling everone your the best


Hes not saying it, the rest of us are. Magis and Katfish are probably the best Flathead fisherman in the state. Over the years i have seen the monsters they catch and the precision they do it with. If your just here to stir the pot take it to catfish1. Atleast there is a high intensity section there where your childish comments are welcomed. You caught a nice fish congrats, but your run on sentences are self righteousness is getting old.


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## pendog66

tk1fisherman said:


> news flash your little group of fisherman u know arnt the only people in ohio catching big cats my friend steve works at fishermans warehouse has cought more 50lb + fish out of rivers or lakes in ohio then anyone i have seen


You have no idea who i have connections with in state and out. You name one person and probably fish his spots and come here to brag. We all enjoy fishing on this site. And throwing out childish challenges and name calling because we disagree with you just shows your knowledge and fishing ethics.....


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## M.Magis

Who else thinks we've been trolled by some kid when the teacher is looking the other way? And does anyone else think his last name Hollar Jr? It's not often one comes across that combination of arrogance and ignorance.


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## pendog66

M.Magis said:


> Who else thinks we've been trolled by some kid when the teacher is looking the other way? And does anyone else think his last name Hollar Jr? It's not often one comes across that combination of arrogance and ignorance.


I was beginning to wonder.... lol

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## H2O Mellon

Wow.... I don't know what's more painful, attempting to read some of these posts or knowing that I had similar viewpoints years ago. I remember when I thought that I had to use St Croix Classic rod and the most expensive Abu reels you could get. Tk1,I found out a year or two after I got into catfishing that the name on your rod or reel means virtually nothing. A successful catfisherman will use what they are comfortable with and what they have confidence in. If that's a $400+ Shimano combo that's meant for chasing the Loch Ness Monster with and line heavy enough to pull the Titanic up with so be it but understand it's overkill for Ohio. I think that's the point that Magis was trying to make. 

I'm a bit curious about your tournament experience. What tourney trail do you fish? The reason that I ask that is that in most of the Ohio trails, it's not the guy catching the one 50-60 # fish that find consistent success. It's the guys/gals who consistently catch 15-25 # fish who are in the money and leaders on their respective trails. 

I've been very let down and disappointed by fishermen whom I've respected only to find out that they are hardcore paylakers. (By the way which is fine... it's legal so I'm not saying it's wrong, to me it's just different and not a sport.) Your comment about the fish fighting like they are dead in paylakes makes me wonder if your not one of these guys who have caught big fish at paylakes and think that success carries over into all water in Ohio. Another thing that makes me wonder about this is the fact that you seem to like to talk about winning money. This is another thing that paylakers seem to be obsessed with. I know alot of guys who fish tournaments in Ohio and very few of them even break even, let alone come out ahead. 

One final thing that I'll mention is that if you are legit and this Flathead catching machine that you seem to think you are then share your knowledge. You can help those who may not be as lucky as you. Your help and sharing will go farther in earning respect on here that bragging about the monster fish you've put on the bank/in the boat.


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## monsterKAT11

Great post Mellon


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## pendog66

monsterKAT11 said:


> Great post Mellon


I agree!!!!


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## rustyfish

tk1fisherman said:


> once agin i dont think i know everything i do think if a guy wants to run 85lb braid on 8ft heavy rod i do believe 50 or 60 lb flouro is his best bet for leader.Do i think you need 600$ each set up to catch cat NO I DONT . I have used abu and daiwa shimano and i like shimano the best for me . once agin have cought some ok cats on 6500 20lb mono and lost some. 2 years ago i deside to try using just spinning gear to catfish with is that the best way prob not i just wanted to try somting differnt . lol give a year or 2 and ill get board that way also . next time maybe a fly rod with a 6 in little joe and a warmouth on the hook lol sounds dumb but i love to catch fish in diff ways . If someone was to ask me that is just getting into catfishing what gear they should use id guess id say 6500 big game like a team catfish rod they are well priced and 20 or 30 mono 30 mono can be a little hard to cast if your not used to baitcasters or heavy mono . if you like braid sulifx 832 30 or 40 braid just make sure you use some mono backing . and for me i love to take people fishing that have never had a good fish on there line and let them fight a 20lb flat and see the look on there face when the fish comes up off the bottom thats kinda cool . and as for my heavy gear please if you have a chance look at a terez 100lb or 80 lb rod there not what u think i got that gear just to try to target real big fish with . and its a blast to pull cats straight out of snags atleast for me . seems like eveyone says im wrong for how i fish SOMETIMES but thats cool with me cause iv already done it the way they are


That is a post that I understand and agree with. 

I think many of us first come to this site and don't react well to the thoughts of others or others thoughts of our thoughts......? Did that make sense? I also know that some of the OGF vets get that blood in the water mentality going too, once you get the sucker on the hook you keep at him until he gives up. But who doesn't like a good argument now and then.

I know at least half of my first 50 post were negative and I'm sure I lost few chances at good advice because of it. But Iv learned that I can gain allot from this site if I ignore the things I view as stupid. Likewise if someone "attacks" my post I will most likely not post anymore on that thread. "Most likely"...but don't test me or I might come at you with the wrath of the gods lol.

For my leaders-

I use 20-40 line. Like JIMMYMAC, I use just under that line wt for my leader just to save some of my rig. I know that if I'm pulling hard enough to break a 30 lb leader then I should retie my 40 lb rig but I don't do it. 

MAGIS I Agree that fish don't pull as much wt as we tend to think. I have lost and have seen many people lose fish while pulling them up a wall or just onto the bank. There is a better chance the hook will pop or the line will break once you get the fish out of the water because the weigh more than they pull. That's why we use nets to land them!


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## H2O Mellon

Nope, you wont catch crap from me for saying you used to fish paylakes. It sounds like you learned how they get their fish and decided not to support the cause-good for you.

I think things are going much better now for you here on OGF. Heck, we may even see you out on the Scioto as a couple of us are planning a trip down to your neck of the woods soon.


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## ajangsta04

woah, this thread got huge.


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## bigcatjoe

I use 80lb braid on a few combos, but only because I've broken 65 setting the hook on fish a few times. Its just too thin to have no stretch and absorb the shock of a close range hookset, even with a black and blue rod rated for 50#. A fish will never break that fighting, though. Nor would a fish ever break 40lb mono unless its scraped up. They're not grouper.

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## ducky152000

Braid +rocks=snapped hooksets cant stand braid. I still use mono for running lines dropped long distance, u just have to run back to set the hook. I dont get to fish certain spots from this but I refuse to use braid in almost all situations. I have 1 outfit with braid and its my pole I use floats on because mono sinks. And causes your bait to wrap around your main line.


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## M.Magis

ducky152000 said:


> Braid +rocks=snapped hooksets cant stand braid. I still use mono for running lines dropped long distance, u just have to run back to set the hook. I dont get to fish certain spots from this but I refuse to use braid in almost all situations. I have 1 outfit with braid and its my pole I use floats on because mono sinks. And causes your bait to wrap around your main line.


Yep, braid and rocks dont play well together. 

But you gotta give up that mono for dropped lines.  I remember when I first started running lines out and was still using mono. Whenever I set the hook it felt like I snagged a bungee cord. I missed more fish than I caught, just couldnt get use to it. We rarely fish near rocks, so dacron is the ticket for us


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