# Sand Bottoms -vs- Stone / Your Input?



## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

As I reviewed my notes and stats from the 2012 fishing season (which went from March to December), I noted, to my suprise, that I took more smallmouth from the LMR than the WWR. A lot of this is I came to understand, was primarily due to the fact that I began canoe fishing with a friend towards the end of the summer. During this short time, we boated around 300 smallmouth with a tried and true method that I employeed most of the season on ALL streams and rivers.

As well as taking fish counts and conditions, I took note of the structure, materials and aggregates. The primary difference, I have found, between the two bodies I fished most last year (LMR & WWR) is aggregate. The WWR has (IMO) more sand than stone. Now i'm not saying that the LMR has no sand, but where I fished, this statement is spot on accurate. The LMR on most of my trips, both wade and float, had rock, stone and pebble respectivelly. 

Smallmouth live and thrive in both types of conditions. What brings me to post this is the burning question, I have been pondering, is that I have never felt super confident fishing mostly sandy bottomed areas of waterways.

I catch smallmouth in sandy areas but I tend to be more confident where there is structure. In fact, until just this past December, my largest smallmouth was caught in shallow, sandy water in the summer. The smallmouth I just caught last month was taken in deeper, big rock structured, in winter. Obviously there are major differences but it was 5 years from one to the next so there was no lack of trying to break my PB smallie!

There are atmospheric conditions, water conditions, baitfish and myriad other conditions but what I am locked onto here and now is aggregate conditions.

So I ask you, my peers, please share your opinions of sand over stone and/or your opinions of any of the major tributaries in our Southwest Forum region. Please elaborate as you see fit. 

I'm all ears.


Thanks guys.


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## HOUSE (Apr 29, 2010)

Maybe I watch too much Al Lindner and Bill Dance online, but I've never seen them talk about sandy areas being productive smallmouth spots. I always thought it was due to crawfish inhabiting mostly rocky areas. My experience is mainly limited to the LMR, but I fish Elkhorn Creek quite a bit which is an amazing smallmouth fishery and it is almost all rock...and big ones at that. On the LMR, I'd say 95% of my smallies were taken along rocks or in fast moving water, but just to throw a wrench in that plan, the 23" tank I caught last year was in a calm, sandy pool (adjacent to fast water, though).

Other species like hybrids are an entirely different story though. Mainly because they relate more to baitfish and current. I sometimes wonder if the big smallies that I catch act more like wipers and feed more on minnows/shad than on crawfish. Most of my big smallies came from waters that also hold hybrids, but I'm usually fishing the lower LMR. Maybe some of the "Northerners" can chime in on that one.


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

WAREHOUSE said:


> Maybe I watch too much Al Lindner and Bill Dance online, but I've never seen them talk about sandy areas being productive smallmouth spots.


True, true but those fella's are usually, not always, but usually fishing lakes. With that being said, when I fished Lake St. Clair last year, the entire area I fished was sand. There were rock pile areas around but we fished where we saw bass on the graph and all of these were sand bottomed areas.
Lake St. Clair could be considered "riverlike" as it has current much like a chain of lakes within a river system.

As always WH, your input is appreciated and noted.


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## HOUSE (Apr 29, 2010)

I got this book for Christmas which probably holds many of these secrets within: River Smallmouth Fishing by Tim Holschlag

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/River-Smallmouth-Fishing-Techniques-Rivers/dp/097638762X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357164321&sr=1-1&keywords=river+smallmouth+fishing"]River Smallmouth Fishing: The Best Techniques & Best Rivers: Tim Holschlag, Ron Nelson: 9780976387626: Amazon.com: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512yY%[email protected]@[email protected]@512yY%2B8rNtL[/ame]

I'll let you borrow it when I'm done


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

The closer to the OR you get on the LMR, the more sandy it gets on the bottom. You understand what you might pull out of the sandy bottomed riffles, I don't want to publicly announce it more than I already have. The more north you go on the LMR, the more "rocky" the bottom gets (for the most part). With "rocky" structure, it brings along more of a certain kind of species that everyone hates to catch. Not saying you can't catch them with in a sandy bottom riffle, but your odds are better with rocky structure, which you already know.

So, I'm curious, did you take note of the locations that you caught each fish? If so, I wonder if you can put together a more thorough correlation. 

Those fish jump out of the water and fight too hard anyways, so nobody likes to catch them, I wouldn't waste my time trying to find them.

Besides, there are no fish in the LMR, if you want to catch nice fish, drive west to the White Water 


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Matulemj said:


> Besides, there are no fish in the LMR, if you want to catch nice fish, drive west to the White Water
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I heard that because there are no fish in the LMR some time in the next week or so they are going to drain it. That its going to be at least a felony to fish there next year. I'm not sure if that's 100 percent accurate but everyone should stay away just to be safe.


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## steve113535 (Feb 7, 2012)

You can't compare Lake St. Clair to our rivers that is just nonsense. Kevin Van Dam says if he could only fish one lake in the world it would be that one, and thats saying something. That lake is awesome fishing and quite beautiful as well. But back to your bottom question of which is better, I would have to say stone for our purposes. Yes, Lake St. Clair and other sand bottom reservoirs can be very good (i.e. Dale Hollow) but with those I would attribute them being successful because of the grass in them (most of the time sandgrass also why St. Clair is tubes tubes tubes and Dale Hollow is jigs jigs jigs), and in Lake St. Clair's case it being one big eddy sandwhiched in between two major rivers. I personally believe that smallmouth perfer grass over rock, but it seems like you are referring to ohio rivers. In our case with ohio rivers, sandy bottom with grassy bottoms seem hard to find, and the ones in fast moving water won't contain the life that lake grass has. If i'm fishing sand i'm looking for timber or rock. I am looking for rock because in our rivers in sw ohio, they can utulize them a lot more for there advantage then sand. Rock creates current break for feeding and also ambush spots, not to mention it is easier on the fish to feed being in an eddy.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Picture of snake caught last year in the Little Miami. I hear they were used in secret research at the Army Depot just downstream of the old powder plant and some escaped.


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

steve113535 said:


> You can't compare Lake St. Clair to our rivers that is just nonsense.


I agree completely but I was making no such comparison. I was responding to WAREHOUSE's referal to the Lindners and Bill Dance.

As for KVD, the only time I listen to what he says is when he is not being an infomercial, and he is always an infomercial. Sorry Kevin.

Thanks foryour input all the same. It is appreciated.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> I heard that because there are no fish in the LMR some time in the next week or so they are going to drain it. That its going to be at least a felony to fish there next year. I'm not sure if that's 100 percent accurate but everyone should stay away just to be safe.


This is a fact. I don't think it will be a felony though, I heard an M1 and $500 fine. 

They shot this near Kings Mills last year. I'd stay away from the LMR until they get the bear situation under control.










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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

oldstinkyguy said:


> they were used in secret research at the Army Depot


The Army Depot?...is that owned by the Home Depot? 

This thread is SO getting locked!


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

co-angler said:


> This thread is SO getting locked!


If it is locked its only more proof of the secret government conspiracy to cover up the disappearance of fishermen on the LMR...


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

Matulemj said:


> I'd stay away from the LMR until they get the bear situation under control.


So.....do bears prefer a sandy or rocky bottom...as this might prove to be more valuable info?


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Since noone else has taken a stab at this, Ill throw my experience into the mix. All the W Ohio tribs change substrait as the morph there way from headwaters down to the Ohio River or bigger trib that are tribs to the ohio River, these streams go through areas of rock, rubble, sand and mud in all varying places and areas. Streams are ever evolving and always trying to meander and at which times they find there way to the edge of the drainage basin, they will undoubtedly hit some limestone or heavy glaciated rock, these areas are hotspots for holding crayfish which is a staple food source in these areas where as a mud bottomed stream will have fewer crayfish but the main forage will be stonerollers, river shiners and small chubs etc. You talk about the LMR and everyone knows that as the river cuts through Ft Anchient ( SP? ) it goes from mud bottomed a few miles above there to be dominated by limestone that has been cut from the gorge there and deposited for about 15 miles below that area and has always been a good smallmouth area for several reasons, first you have several large tribs that feed and provide ample spawning areas as well as the gravel in the area is also good for smallie spawns, so in rocky areas youll have numbers but the quality fish will be on the gravel and softer water with good woody debrie as they have gotten big enough to seek ample pools with large food sources and as they grow have less current to fight. I guess what Im trying to say is that rocky areas are good magnets for small and medium sized fish but he real bruisers are typically found on those gravel and softer water places. We all know that isnt always true but I think Id take a slow pool anyday over a rocky shoal area when it comes to looking for quality bass. Now ..with that said, if that rocky shoal feeds into a large pool, and thats the best lie for a mile in each direction, hang on!!, those are truly key areas where you can find a god mix of numbers and larger fish that are actively feeding. 

Without writing a book, seasonal movement with smallies also will dictate when to fish gravel, mud or rocks as well. Hmm winter slower metabolism, muddy bottoms hold sunheat, hmm, I think Id be all over those deeper mud pools right now....

Salmonid


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

Now that is some serious schooling there Salmonid! That is some of the best insight I've read on this forum in, well, ever! You sir are an angler amongst fishermen!
Thank you! 


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## deltaoscar (Apr 4, 2009)

Great information Salmonid. Thanks for posting it.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

co-angler said:


> So.....do bears prefer a sandy or rocky bottom...as this might prove to be more valuable info?


As stated before by others, bears that are white with black stripes prefer sandy bottoms. Some old school local fisherman used to call these hybrid species "Sand Bass" ...er, I mean bears. The bears that are copper or green in color prefer rocky bottoms or structure. The copper bear's diet consists of crayfish, as you know, whose habitat consists of plenty of places to hide, like rocks. You can put two and two together. So I'm not sure if rocks or sand are the answer so much as moving water and structure for little critters, like crayfish, to hide. 


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

Salmonid said:


> Without writing a book, seasonal movement with smallies also will dictate when to fish gravel, mud or rocks as well. Hmm winter slower metabolism, muddy bottoms hold sunheat, hmm, I think Id be all over those deeper mud pools right now....
> 
> Salmonid



Good info. My experience has found the number of SM to be around the rocky areas but the bigger ones to be around smooth rock bottoms and deeper pools too. The note regarding the muddy bottoms holding warmth is something of note that I did not consider before... Thanks for sharing Salmonid.


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## Bazzin05 (Feb 2, 2011)

I would have to say from my experience I do catch a lot of my fish big and small from the rocky areas of both the WW and LMR. I have also noticed like the LMR the further up the WWR you get the better the fishing, now is this because of reduced fishing pressure as you get to the more remote area's or because of the makeup of the river? I have always equated it to both of these things, both rivers seem to get rockier and have less pressure the further from the big O you get. 

As you stated co-angler, I have also always liked to target structure while fishing and have learned while fishing faster moving water my definition of structure has changed dramatically. I use to only see structure as rock, wood, or grass but I have now added seams, current, ledges and many other things to that list. But I do have to say that the biggest fish I have caught out of rivers have come from places that the fish didn't have to spend much energy for a meal, most times the meal would come to the fish. 


Just my observations while out enjoying our rivers.


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## IGbullshark (Aug 10, 2012)

i only fish in the LMR and the area i use most frequently had an equal distribution of sand and rock bottom. of this specific area, i have 2 major holes which produce fish consistently. one is rock, and one is sand. i think it may be the geography of the spots that draws the fish, not necessarily the bottom. for instance, the rock bottom is right at the tail end of a 90 degree turn of the river which marks the end of some slightly faster moving water. the sand bottom hole has one side of the river which is a sheer drop straight down to the bottom with the water being about 9 feet deep (above the water the "cliff" rises about 20 more feet). the other bank has a normal slant. its just my theory but im not nearly as seasoned as you guys with fishing.


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## Bazzin05 (Feb 2, 2011)

Matulemj you sure it was a squatch that was shot up there? I saw this one walking on the riverbank and it looks like he liked rocky bottom part of the river.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

Bazzin05 said:


> Matulemj you sure it was a squatch that was shot up there? I saw this one walking on the riverbank and it looks like he liked rocky bottom part of the river.
> 
> View attachment 68190


Yet another reason everyone should stay away from the Little Miami River.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

Anacondas, squatches, and bears, oh my!

Good info, thanks guys. I've always sought out structure much more than substrate, I may need to change my methods up some. I have always thought of mud bottoms as "carp territory" and tend to pass on by though.


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## BMayhall (Jun 9, 2011)

http://208.109.31.181/GDB/show_county_reports.asp?state=oh&county=Clermont 

You should also stay away from East Fork Lake and the GMR Bigfoot has been spotted in these areas. Not only is Bigfoot a problem, but MANBEARPIG is a problem as well.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

I don't even have to tell people stories to stay away from my honey hole, the Mill Creek


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

kingofamberley said:


> Anacondas, squatches, and bears, oh my!
> 
> Good info, thanks guys. I've always sought out structure much more than substrate, I may need to change my methods up some. I have always thought of mud bottoms as "carp territory" and tend to pass on by though.


I tend not to worry so much about the ground below the water as much as I worry about the water itself. If there is moving water, eddies and riffles or a large bend in the river with built up debris, rest assured that there fish. 

Except for in the Little Miami. No fish there.


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## HOUSE (Apr 29, 2010)

kingofamberley said:


> I don't even have to tell people stories to stay away from my honey hole, the Mill Creek


That one got a good laugh out of me. I bet your waders smell like :S:S:S


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

I don't usually post here since I fish in NE Ohio, but since it's about smallmouth fishing, here's what I have found in my years fishing a NE Ohio stream.

The section I usually fish transitions from sand/gravel with woody cover in the pools to rock and whitewater over a short 2 mile section. The river is wadeable, but not boatable unless you are an experienced kayaker. The deep pools are no deeper than 5'. The sand/gravel areas are great from pre-spawn through post-spawn. Good numbers and size. Once the water warms up in mid-june, the fish move into the cooler rocky pools. When I find the right pool, I could hook up with a dozen or more fish with 4 or 5 being 12"-15", which is big for this section of river. I hooked into a large smallie in mid-summer this year in a sand/gravel side channel, but it was sitting under a large chunk of concrete right next to the main flow and sawed me off on the concrete after a short intense battle! I think that the biggest fished hold in the most ideal spots in that section of river that have the right cover, flow, depth, and water temp. Any cover sitting next to a current seam is a good place to start. You just have to find those spots and pitch in the right bait. I have fished the sand/gravel pools in mid-summer and caught very few fish even around the woody cover and even fishing right before dark when they should be active. I haven't noticed them being any bigger than the rocky areas either. 

For the guy that said he caught one next to a cliff that dived into a sandy pool, I'll bet you there were rocks in the bottom that had fallen off that cliff and created an ambush point for those fish.


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## inrll (Apr 6, 2012)

Rock is usually better.

I think that with small-river smallmouth, current trumps cover. I think that you could have a big beautiful boulder the size of a VW sitting in a slow pool far from any real current and I don't think its going to hold many smallies if any at all. (it will have some spots though!) 

So to answer your question, regarding WWR and LMR, and stone vs sand... I think if you fish the faster current and its eddies, edges and unseen current breaks under the surface, then your fishing the most productive areas. Rock just happens to usually be there because the sand can't deposit in that fast water.


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## IGbullshark (Aug 10, 2012)

bdawg said:


> For the guy that said he caught one next to a cliff that dived into a sandy pool, I'll bet you there were rocks in the bottom that had fallen off that cliff and created an ambush point for those fish.


the cliff isn't rock, its a dirt cliff. that doesn't mean there aren't rocks at the bottom though.


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Remember guys, many factors help decide the size of rock, rubble or sand or even mud on the rivers bottom, its all based on the area of the watershed, the slope of the stream, the geology around that stretch of water. The amount of sediment that gets moved and deposited varys in every stream but I assure you, every stream consists of rock, rubble, sand and muddy sediment and in fact, for every 2-3 meanders in a stream, you should be able to find all of the above.

When a "healthy" stream is allowed to do what streams are designed to do, betwen every meander shoud be a riffle, a glide, a chute and a pool, then it starts over again. The famous "Meander" of a stream also has several aspects, the pool is the slowest area but also has the most power as the deeper the water the more power it has, the upper most part of the pool will consist of sand and finer gravel and the slowest water behind obstructions like logs will attract the raw muddy sediment as will the bottom half of a bigger pool, the tailout starts to speed up the water and why it is usually turned back into sand then smaller rubble then bigger rocks and the top of the riffle is where the water build up and gets pushed over the tailouts rockpile and the water then speeds up more as it falls in a rapid pace where it keeps the bottom clean and is often full of nice glaciated stones or chunk limestone, then as it slows down you start to find the smaller rubble and nice current seams and bubble lines, This is called the "Glide" area and as the water continues to slowdown the sediment gets smaller all the way through the "pool" and then it starts over again. Be sure to look up the word "Thalweg" and try to understand what it means within the Meander of the stream. 

Now, in every section of the river there is ample areas for fish to move and feed depending on the food available, for example, when the spring craws come out and are spawning, pretty good chance the majority of the feeding will be at lowlight times and often in the glide and riffle areas. But later in the early summer the minnows/baitfish are spawning along gravel areas in shallow water, this is when youll see better fish pushing baitfish in shallow sandy area up against the baks, now in late summer when the rivers pace is slow and oxygen is at a premium, you can smetimes find bigger fish in 1 ft of water just hanging out, youll jump them when wading in riffles sometimes but not really feeding. Now in the fall when the young of the year minnows are now 1.5-3" long, the are now big enough to eat and there is a period when the small minnows will be about everywhere in the whole stretch and youll hammer numbers of fish everywhere with hardly a pattern to it, so then in winter, the fish move to slower deeper water and are often found around current breaks and log jams to avoid fighting currents but they still feed swimming slowly along the bottom looking for larger, more protein filled meal since they are eating less but when they decide to feed, it has to be worth the effort. 

So, its important to remember that fish move around more then you think and can change the preferences on a daily basis based on the available food sources. Studies have shown simillar sized smallies sometimes have favorite haunts and some will stay in the rocky areas hitting craws primarily throughout most of the year while others will prefer to stay in the pools and chasing baitfish and schools of suckers. Just depends on there mood. 

Bottom line is to follow the food, and youll find the fish...and I certainly wouldnt ever commit myself to one type of cover, lets face it if you have a Rebel Crawfish and a shallow and a deep running Minnow bait in your pouch, your set up to fish both major feeding areas of the smallie. Yup, youll catch fish sometimes in the pool with a rebel craw and sometimes in the riffles with a rapala, but more often then not its the other way around.

Food for thought here guys..there is just so much more to what Im trying to explain here then what i can write down but it hopefully helps some of you guys understand a bigger picture. 

Tight lines in 13'

Salmonid


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

Good info salmonid, you covered a lot there.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

Ok if your not scared off by the bigfoots, bears and snakes, here's my two cents worth before the river kills you and you die...

The Little Miami is over 100 miles long and drains something like 1800 square miles. The river was formed by raging meltwater from the end of the last ice age. This mega flood cut steep valleys and gorges at The Narrows, Clifton, Fort Ancient and from around South Lebanon to say below Fosters. In other places it filled everything up debris and gravel and sand. If you canoe the river from Constitution Park at Spring Valley down thru Roxanna to Spring Valley Wildlife area you will see a river that twists and turns back unto itself as it meanders thru this debris (the "snake" to old river rats). Even the hills thru here are different than say down by Morrow. Below Constitution Park you can in many places walk up into the woods and dig down into the ground with your hands the soil is so loose and full of sand and gravel. Skip upstream to somewhere like Jacoby Road and the river is long shallow rocky ledgy pools again a different stream in many ways. Heck there is vegatation in Clifton Gorge you wont hardly find south of Canada it's such a specialised environment there. I'm no rock guy but I know there is like a half dozen different kinds of dolomite and two or three kinds of shale and three or four different kinds of limestone plus millions of tons of different rocks carried by the glacier from central and northern Ohio as well as Canada. Anyways what all that does is make every few miles of the river completely different from all the others. I remember reading a study where they sampled different riffles up and down the length of the river for insect life and fish life. What struck me from the results was just how different the results were. At one place the river might have tons of mayflies and flatworms and five miles away it will be full of caddisflies and aquatic insects. The fish populations varied wildly too. The common stoneroller is the most abundant little fish in the river but one riffle might be full of two or three different kinds of darters and another loaded with tonguetied minnows. Now the whole river is good smallmouth fishing, some places obviously better than others. But you cant say "hey the sandy areas are better than the rocky ones' because they are all different with a different food chain in each one. Theres over a hundred species of fish and well over a thousand kinds of algae and invertabrates. I think every time the EPA does a serious sample of the itty bitty stuff they find new ones. You have to look at each section of river, the one you are fishing that day and say ok where are the best spots to fish today. Today being the key word here. In summer it might be fist sized rocks below a riffle that are full of young crawfish, in winter those craws are gone and it might be an eddy holding fathead minnows. Or who knows maybe redhorse suckers are spawning on a riffle and all kinds of little fish are feeding on the eggs and thats drawing smallies to a riffle. Or drum are spawning and their eggs free float and gather in a pool and draw minnows. Just like fishing anywhere but maybe even more so, you have to let the river and the fish tell you where to fish each day. Just because you nailed em on a suspending Matzuo minnow last week doesnt mean a jig wont be better today. 

Not to mention that half the water in the upper river comes into the river in one way or another out of the ground. From places like the famous spring at Yellow Springs to Siebenthaler Fen to thousands of tiny springs. All changing the PH, the phytoplankton, the fishing. And then the Tribs change things Todds Fork has a different chemistry than whats flowing out of Caesar Creek dam and both are different than East Fork and on and on. 

Oh and dont forget the railroad. Look at the river above south lebanon, under the J.Morrow Bridge and at Fosters and a dozen other places, hundreds of tons of concrete rubble and stone dumped in the river by the railroad to controll erosion. Again completely changing the fishing. My guess on any given day in June the best fishing is on rocks...and sand...and boulders....and gravel, depending on where you are on the river, what the water temperature is, what time of day it is, what little fish are there and a dozen other things. Theres only one sure fire way to know, let the fish tell you. If you dont and just say fishing a rebel craw around rocks catches fish your right, but your not catching as many (or as big) fish as you could be catching.

I guess I'm just a grumpy bastard but I dont like blanket statements like Rock is better than Sand. If it were that simple then where would the magic be? I like the fact that you can think that... Ok stonerollers are spawning and maybe my rainbow colored rebel minnow kinda looks like one and they hang around this eddy and Wham! you catch a fish. (Even if the real reason is probably something else completely and you end up doing better on a purple finesse worm). Thats where the magic is, that endless food chain and the transistions from rock to stone to pool to riffle. Thats what makes river fishing better than any other kind.


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## HOUSE (Apr 29, 2010)

oldstinkyguy said:


> ...here's my two cents worth before the river kills you and you die...


So what you are saying, OSG, is to throw a suspending Matzuo minnow...Right?


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## deltaoscar (Apr 4, 2009)

WAREHOUSE said:


> So what you are saying, OSG, is to throw a suspending Matzuo minnow...Right?


I don't know what post you were reading House? OSG, clearly stated the best LMR bait is a purple finesse worm, sheesh.


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

sigh....now you've hurt my sensitive feelings
I think I'm going to go deer hunting for a few days.


Hmm, should I hunt fields or woods?


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## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Good post Stinky as Ive ben involved with many invertabrate and fish samplings with many different agencies and every few feeet of the river is different. 

Salmonid


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## snuff (Apr 19, 2007)

From what I hear,there are no smallmouth in either of those so called rivers.












































I have been told that there are no smallies in either of those so called rivers.I have it on good authority that all U so called fishermen down in that part of the state are all catching carp and suckers and calling them smallies. Sorry about your $&*^ luck.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

snuff said:


> From what I hear,there are no smallmouth in either of those so called rivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is true. This is why you should stay as far north as possible and avoid both rivers at all costs. Especially the Little Miami River. 


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## Dizzy (Oct 1, 2012)

Don't forget the Loveland Frogman. He could ruin a good day of fishing just by looking at you.


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## Bass Assasin Slaton (May 22, 2011)

Its a tough one but i would give my edge towards a stony bottom simply because i think the bass would have more spots to ambush prey giving them more tendency to bite a bait..they would save alot of energy ambushing instead of chasing prey on a sandy bottom making them eat more because they have the energy to do so.. (if my logic makes any sense)..giving you the better odds of catching fish.


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## Ogf's best (Feb 16, 2012)

Whats a smallmouth? I am married...so I kmow what a bigmouth is....


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## GarrettMyers (May 16, 2011)

I was out on the LMR the other day doing some bear hunting, and I see these jokers coming downstream right at me. Be careful, or better yet just avoid the river south of Loveland until I give the go ahead. You're welcome!










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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

GarrettMyers said:


> I was out on the LMR the other day doing some bear hunting, and I see these jokers coming downstream right at me. Be careful, or better yet just avoid the river south of Loveland until I give the go ahead. You're welcome!
> 
> View attachment 68308
> 
> ...


There's cabrewers out already?


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

The first little stream that runs into the Little Miami above the bridge at Stubbs Mills road is named BIGFOOT RUN. Just Sayin....


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## gibson330usa (May 15, 2012)

oldstinkyguy said:


> The first little stream that runs into the Little Miami above the bridge at Stubbs Mills road is named BIGFOOT RUN. Just Sayin....


Who knows what kind of madness comes out of that old haunted landfill at bigfoot run. I know I stay far far away.


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

Waitaminute! I thought Bigfoot once posted on the OGF. He would always post pictures of giant smallies and say he was fishing "somewhere on the GMR".
Tricksy......


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## ARReflections (Jan 7, 2011)

How hard is it to get sharks with friggin lasers on their head?!?! [Doctor Evil voice]


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## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

My friends house backs up the LMR. He took this video out his back window...






Just be warned you might not ever get a good nights sleep again after viewing this.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

There it is! That's all I need to see to keep me as far away from the Little Miami as possible.


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

Matulemj said:


> There it is! That's all I need to see to keep me as far away from the Little Miami as possible.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Thank God and finally!


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

That bigfoot looked a little light in the loafers. Which I heard happens once you move to the east side of town


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## co-angler (Jan 3, 2010)

imalt said:


> That bigfoot looked a little light in the loafers. Which I heard happens once you move to the east side of town


Only if he backs into parking spots....


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

imalt said:


> That bigfoot looked a little light in the loafers. Which I heard happens once you move to the east side of town


Was that a bigfoot or a woodchuck? "Hey, you bigfoot! Quit chuckin' my wood!" I don't know if he's light in the loafers, but he had quite a hitch in his gitalong! Probably ate some fish out of the LMR and now has one leg shorter than the other!


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## Britam05 (Jun 16, 2012)

As Phil Robertson says about his boys. They married yuppies and moved to the suburbs. So too has Bigfoot. Moved out of the back country and married a tippy and moved to the burbs. 


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