# List places to learn, practice at



## mcoppel (May 21, 2011)

With several new threads going on about new fly people, I thought it may be helpfull if people listed some good areas or small ponds that are good for learning/practicing fly fishing.

like to practice at a retention ponds. Not always the best for fish but many are clear enough around the sides to provide good casting/stripping practice.

There's one at Billingsly near Sawmill rd.
There's also a park up off home road that has a nice pond that is fairly open and not used much.

Anyone else have just nice areas around?


----------



## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

any body of flowing water large enough to hold minnows.


----------



## fishmerf (Mar 28, 2008)

There are a number of small ponds and lakes around depending on where you live. Do not hesitate to ask people from work or church about ponds that they might own. Local neighborhood retention ponds and small parks in your area are all good places to start.
Ponds are great for casting and even catching fish, but rivers are where you will learn the importance of line management. Learning to mend line, cast into different current seams, deal with overhanging trees, and keep up with slack can only come with time spent on the river.
We have plenty of public access to rivers here in Ohio. Find one with plenty of space and learn to manage line. You might not catch as many fish as you would in a blue gill pond, but the skills you gain will be invaluable down the road.


----------



## Intracoastal (Sep 12, 2009)

I've grown weary of any distinction between practice and fishing. We are always learning. Just go fish, and voila, practice is in progress...


----------



## toobnoob (Jun 1, 2010)

Intracoastal said:


> I've grown weary of any distinction between practice and fishing. We are always learning. Just go fish, and voila, practice is in progress...


I couldn't agree more with this. If you want to practice your forward cast or hauling line I would just do it in the backyard or a field. Everything else you will learn on a river because......well......you'll just have to figure out how to do it or you won't be fishing in that spot. Once you figure out what you are having problems doing then you can research how other's do it.


----------



## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

My best "practice" comes on the water (less harmful to the line as well). I am blessed with the opportunity to fish a number of ponds with stretches of clear shoreline. Fly fishing itself is a constant learning process.
Mike


----------



## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

ohiotuber said:


> My best "practice" comes on the water (less harmful to the line as well). I am blessed with the opportunity to fish a number of ponds with stretches of clear shoreline. Fly fishing itself is a constant learning process.
> Mike


I agree that on-the-water practice is obviously essential for learning things like line mending, roll casts, etc.

But, basic casting mechanics, getting better with distance, and things like that not only can be practiced on the lawn, but if you do these things when you're not fishing, you can focus on the casting without worrying about everything else that's going on (like sharp hooks, fish, deep drop offs, etc.) At least this has been my own approach to it.

Casting is like any other sport that requires you to train your muscles. I've never known a coach who canceled practice because he figured you'd learn all you needed to know during a real game!


----------



## BradS (Apr 7, 2004)

Andrew S said:


> I agree that on-the-water practice is obviously essential for learning things like line mending, roll casts, etc.
> 
> But, basic casting mechanics, getting better with distance, and things like that not only can be practiced on the lawn, but if you do these things when you're not fishing, you can focus on the casting without worrying about everything else that's going on (like sharp hooks, fish, deep drop offs, etc.) At least this has been my own approach to it.
> 
> Casting is like any other sport that requires you to train your muscles. I've never known a coach who canceled practice because he figured you'd learn all you needed to know during a real game!


Here Here Andrew! Could not agree more!!

Brad


----------



## Intracoastal (Sep 12, 2009)

Andrew S said:


> I agree that on-the-water practice is obviously essential for learning things like line mending, roll casts, etc.
> 
> But, basic casting mechanics, getting better with distance, and things like that not only can be practiced on the lawn, but if you do these things when you're not fishing, you can focus on the casting without worrying about everything else that's going on (like sharp hooks, fish, deep drop offs, etc.) At least this has been my own approach to it.
> 
> Casting is like any other sport that requires you to train your muscles. I've never known a coach who canceled practice because he figured you'd learn all you needed to know during a real game!


Honestly I think the team sports analogy is a poor one, however catchy. I am not saying that there is no such thing as "practice." I was saying that the boundary between practice and fishing is either blurry or non-existent, but this is not intended to generalize to all other human activities. 

There is a conflation of "frequency" with "practice." But frequency of what? Sure, an hour of casting in the lawn may give you 200 casts, let's say, while 1 hour of fishing may only give you 50 casts, because you are making decisions about where to cast, picking out flies, tying leaders, retrieving flies, and hopefully fighting fish and taking pictures. But then you just have to go fishing a lot more to catch up numbers-wise, yet you are learning other things simultaneously. I'll entertain your analogy for a bit: if you got to catch a ball in the outfield 200 times per game and you had games everyday, you probably wouldn't need to "practice," because you have the opportunity at hand already in a real situation that you would otherwise be "practicing" for by having your teammate toss you a ball 200 times. But an outfielder catches a dozen balls per game. Still too different from fishing to satisfy me, but you get my point. 

It is a matter of different approaches, and I grant the lawn-approach the ability to isolate a particular task to work on while avoiding other distractions. But in the end, it's applicability to fishing is limited and you only get really good at casting in a lawn. I think what you are talking about, Andrew, is casting. You say, "casting is like any other sport..." But I'm not talking only about casting, and I'm surely not referring here to tournament casting. That is another can of (san-juan) worms. 

If your plans for flyfishing are to cast to fish or structures 80' off the bow of your boat, you should go fishing in your boat. Sure, you can work up your casting distance in a grassy park somewhere, and then hop in your boat, but now you have to learn to deal with the other logistics and variables of boat fishing. The boat will roll abeam, it will spin around, water will load the line differently than grass, if you use a sinking line it will actually sink (!), you might get hooked in the neck, and best or worst of all--you might actually catch a fish! The benefit of working up your distance cast on the lawn is diminished by all that you must now learn the second you step on the bow of the boat. Oh crap, you didn't practice casting at moving targets because your hula hoop or cardboard fish wasn't motorized? 

Or say you typically fish from a tight bank with brush behind and to each side of you, the water is moving left to right, and you can't wade out for more room. You could try to find this situation in a park, but you wouldn't, and if you did, there'd be water involved and it would officially be fishing (not "practice," right?). You have to go to that spot with only your fly fishing equipment and stick it out--lose your flies in the trees, break your leaders, and fail miserably. You will not only learn to cast in these tight quarters, but you will learn about leader lengths, tapers, & breaking strengths, as well as retrieving different flies effectively. 

Dealing with the distractions of fish is one of the skills possessed by good anglers. But fish are also the ultimate goal, at least of the "young" angler. I would hate to remove fish from the equation, and nothing makes you better at sorting out your nerves when a school of fish break the surface or a big pike slides out from under that downed tree than seeing it happen day in and day out, making the mistakes and learning from them. 

I have done both approaches, and I still frequent the lawn. But I don't consider this "practice" for fishing. It is fishing in a fishless lawn, and it's purpose is to enjoy something other than fishing. It is to enjoy and progress at casting IN A PARK. Sure, the muscle memory or skills may be useful to some extent while fishing for fish in water, but the applicability is LIMITED because they are not the same thing. Going back to your other-sports analogy, learning to hit every ball in a batting cage is not the same as hitting a pitch from a human pitcher. The human pitcher will vary his approach, and even when he tries to replicate the same throw, will inevitably vary to some extent. So the best hitter is one who is skilled at seeing and adapting to variations. That is also what makes a good angler. 

This thread is obviously aimed at newcomers to the fly, and my ultimate recommendation in this case will always be to go fishing. There is no substitute for this. If given the choice to practice on the lawn or go fishing, going fishing is the one more directly applicable to--you guessed it--fishing. If you pick the lawn, either your favorite fishing hole is inaccessible or you want the feeling of small accomplishments that come from doing something with a flyrod in a park that may or may not be useful on the water. 

My advice is to go to where you love to fish and where you know there are fish. Take your flyfishing tackle and force yourself to figure it out. Finding a friend, guide, or mentor will help shorten the initial learning curve. But the learning curve will always be there, and the best "practice" is fishing. So when is the recital?


----------



## oldstinkyguy (Mar 28, 2010)

I once had the police stop and watch me for a bit because I was out in a parking lot at 3am trying out a new fly rod...

The cool part about flyfishing is that just casting is a blast itself.


----------



## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

Intracoastal said:


> Honestly I think the team sports analogy is a poor one, however catchy. I am not saying that there is no such thing as "practice." I was saying that the boundary between practice and fishing is either blurry or non-existent, but this is not intended to generalize to all other human activities.
> 
> There is a conflation of "frequency" with "practice." But frequency of what? Sure, an hour of casting in the lawn may give you 200 casts, let's say, while 1 hour of fishing may only give you 50 casts, because you are making decisions about where to cast, picking out flies, tying leaders, retrieving flies, and hopefully fighting fish and taking pictures. But then you just have to go fishing a lot more to catch up numbers-wise, yet you are learning other things simultaneously.....


You've probably put much more thought into your reply than I put into my original post!

That said, and while I understand many of your points, I personally still stand by my contention that such "off the water" practice is not only ultimately good for your fishing, but also still a good analogy to sports. When I played sports, obviously we did a lot of "mock" competitions (scrimmage, or whatever you want to call it), but we also did a lot of "drills". We also lifted weights, ran, etc. All of these had their purpose.

On a more practical level, there is simply the time constraints of fishing vs. casting on the lawn. When I was learning to cast, and ever since then (because I still practice my casting regularly), I would walk down to the local park in the morning with a fly rod and a cup of coffee. I would work on my casting, whether it was distance, loop form, accuracy, dealing with wind, left handed, etc., and I'd do this for about 20 minutes 3-5 times per week. For years, it was simply impossible for me to go fishing on weekdays more than just occasionally. And if I did go fishing, weekday or weekend, the drive, time investment, etc. meant I was going to do it for hours, usually all day. If the only casting I ever did was during these fishing trips, then any attention my casting was going to get was going to have to happen then, and that just didn't work for me as well as the frequent but short sessions. And I think it's safe to say that the majority of fishermen are in a similar situation, i.e. they cannot go fishing 3-5 times per week.


It's possible we're talking past each other, but I'm not sure. I'm not suggesting that one should regularly pass up a chance to fish in order to go practice casting on the grass, I'm just saying that plenty of people would benefit from from practicing their casting frequently, given that for most people that's easier to do than to go fishing frequently.


In any event, I have fished with a lot of people who have fished for years, sometimes more years than I have, and some who fish A LOT more than I do, and yet they remain, in my opinion, pretty mediocre casters. Many of them catch a lot of fish, and they don't really care too much about casting. This is fine. But I have been in situations, with them, where longer casts made the difference. I recall in particular once when I was one of a party of five of us fishing a beach in Rhode Island at about 2am one September or October night a few years ago. Finally, the stripers showed, and for three of us for a short period, it was pure mayhem...fish as fast as we could get the fly back out there. But "out there" they were. At the end of the night, when we all finally had had enough, we agreed that three of us had each gotten roughly 25 stripers. Number four guy got five, and the guy who had the shortest reach got three of them. He has plenty of fishing experience. He can read water, tie flies, etc. But he can't throw a long line, and there was just no doubt that this was the difference that night. We've had discussions about casting in the past, where he would often say "It's about catching fish, not casting", to which I would usually reply "Well, I happen to enjoy casting for its own sake, but I also think casting well is important." He always liked to counter that the bass are often right at your feet. Yeah, often - not always. Well, we no longer have that conversation. There's no need to.

Now, I don't suppose this really proves my point, since you could easily argue that if he would just get better at casting while he was fishing, he'd have kept up that night. But the fact is, for whatever reason, those years of fishing had not made him a better caster. Maybe it's simply because that's not something he cares about. I don't know. But I am certainly convinced that my own casting, including the casting that occurs when I fish, benefits from the practice I put towards it even when I'm not fishing.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

The biggest reason lawn casting is beneficial is because...it's on your lawn. Not a 30 minute ride in the car, suited & booted for hours at a time. 


You can step out your back door & practice for 10 minutes. Distance casting is the perfect example. In distance casting, your line isn't touching the grass (or water) and there's nothing behind you to obstruct your cast. It's about the mechanics of the cast & the muscle memory. 


That being said, the only time I lawn cast is when I get a new rod & I want to see how it loads with the lines I already have. I'll sting the dog's rump from about 40 paces & I'm done.


----------



## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

Bottom line:
Fish, practice on the lawn, in the water, what's it matter?....just have fun!
Mike


----------



## Intracoastal (Sep 12, 2009)

I just typed out a reply but OGF signs me off so GD fast that it got erased. I tried pressing back and forward buttons but no luck this time. I need to write my replies in Word and then paste them...what a pain.


Anyway, Andrew, I agree with your reply to a large extent. Thanks for sharing the story about stripers and taking my point about frequency vs. practice seriously. In that case, I would infer that the guy catches most of his fish within 60-70', and therefore never had to learn how to cast much farther. But he was really good at fishing his average range of conditions. Your time on the lawn happened to pay off in this instance, because the lawn replicated a distance-requiring situation that was otherwise not available. About this you are right, and as Lefty said, "there is no disadvantage in being able to cast far." 

But OldStinkyGuy brings up a good point, that so much of the fun of fly fishing is in casting fly gear. It's reasonable then that we occasionally go to the nearest open space where nothing can distract us from simply casting. It's fun to feel the rod load and to work on small goals. These accomplishments add to the fun by giving a sense of progress and mastery. This is why I look crazy in the park sometimes. But if I want to practice fishing, I'll go fishing if I can, unless I need to replicate a situation not available to me. It's hard to even think of examples, but all of them would be casting related. We are often way too focused on this portion of what we do.


----------



## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

guys, its just fishing. Quit overthinking it


----------



## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

no matter how complicated it gets its still pretty simple, put a lure in front of a fish, get the fish to eat it


----------



## jhammer (Jun 13, 2011)

Here's a little story about how I started fly fishing 15 years ago when I was a little kid. 

I started small and worked my way up. The first thing I did was tie a piece of yarn to the leader and I practiced in the backyard. When I was pretty confident that I wasn't going to hook myself, I went to a pond. After making some short, accurate casts and catching some fish to get a feel for it, I graduated to bigger lakes and reservoirs. Then, I went down to the river below the dam to learn line control and drifting. I didn't really expect to get much because nobody fly fished the Maumee around here. At least back then. I just studied drifting, nymphing, and line control. Figuring out how to catch fish from there came later.

My apologies if the story seemed irrelevant lol! Start small, then work your way up. City parks with ponds, lakes, reservoirs, backwaters, and sluggish sections of a river are all great places to practice. If you want to learn line control and good drifting, find a spot on the river where there's some current. (Ex. A riffle-hole-run section) 

If I really needed to sum it up, I would just say this: Anyplace that has an open space for casting and you have permission to go there.


----------



## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

fontinalis said:


> guys, its just fishing. Quit overthinking it


I think what you meant to say is "To me, it's just fishing, so I prefer not to think about it a lot."

For some of us, the kinds of discussions we're having is part of the fun. (Frankly, I'd rather watch paint dry than read endless posts about hooks sizes.)

The day I stop thinking fly fishing is probably the day I hang it up in order to find something else that stimulates my brain. This is different from "overthinking it", at least to me. I think about, read about, and do fly fishing to give my brain a rest from all the other stuff...the stuff that keeps me up at night. Fly fishing brain helps me _get_ to sleep!


----------



## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

fontinalis said:


> no matter how complicated it gets its still pretty simple, put a lure in front of a fish, get the fish to eat it


Yes, just like going to the moon: point rocket up, push "GO".

Then again, I'm not an engineer. Maybe it's more complicated than that. Fallen?


----------



## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

Andrew S said:


> I think what you meant to say is "To me, it's just fishing, so I prefer not to think about it a lot."
> 
> For some of us, the kinds of discussions we're having is part of the fun. (Frankly, I'd rather watch paint dry than read endless posts about hooks sizes.)
> 
> The day I stop thinking fly fishing is probably the day I hang it up in order to find something else that stimulates my brain. This is different from "overthinking it", at least to me. I think about, read about, and do fly fishing to give my brain a rest from all the other stuff...the stuff that keeps me up at night. Fly fishing brain helps me _get_ to sleep!


I do think about it a lot, even more than hunting, but when i go fishing i don't care whether or not my waders will weigh me down vs slow me down, or what the barometric pressure is, or the difference between a medium fast and a fast action rod is, or where the best place to practice is, i fish because it is inherently simple, unlike most other aspects of my life. The way you talk about it seems too much like work to me.


----------



## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

Your approach seems perfectly reasonable to me, since it suits you. The part I didn't understand was the part where you were telling me how I should approach my own fishing.

I guess thinking about all those things would be work, if my paycheck depended on it. But to me, a lot of that stuff is just more of what makes it entertaining. I'm not a good musician because being good would require that I practice more, and that particular kind of practice to me is like work. But to a lot of great musicians, it's anything but. That's how chatting about fly rods, casting, etc. are to me. It's the farthest thing from work that I can imagine.

(I should also point out that while it might not be apparent from these discussion, as much as I like the discussions for their own sake, I do not take my fishing "seriously". Friends who fish with me know this.)


----------



## willy (Apr 27, 2007)

Joan Wolf + youtube / common sense = ?

if you want to shoot pool better, spend more time shooting pool, i bet you will get better at it as you spend more time learing the craft, and appreciate it even more as you learn, as well as learn to respect those of us that love our sport and still dont mind takein your money shootin pool = 


if you want to catch indivisable white snaping turtles (hel yeah i been following along 8) spend more time baitin hooks, or get stiffer hooks, or etc. etc. etc...

if your just lazy, or so damn good you don't need to practice your casting, log on to OGF... and post an opinion 8)


----------



## Intracoastal (Sep 12, 2009)

Andrew S said:


> Your approach seems perfectly reasonable to me, since it suits you. The part I didn't understand was the part where you were telling me how I should approach my own fishing.
> 
> I guess thinking about all those things would be work, if my paycheck depended on it. But to me, a lot of that stuff is just more of what makes it entertaining. I'm not a good musician because being good would require that I practice more, and that particular kind of practice to me is like work. But to a lot of great musicians, it's anything but. That's how chatting about fly rods, casting, etc. are to me. It's the farthest thing from work that I can imagine.
> 
> (I should also point out that while it might not be apparent from these discussion, as much as I like the discussions for their own sake, I do not take my fishing "seriously". Friends who fish with me know this.)


Well the "you" I was using, other than when I specifically referred to your argument, Andrew, was a collective and generic one, to simplify the argument. Especially normative statements (i.e. "should...") were advice to newcomers given the topic of the thread. I suppose putting the whole thing in first person throughout would have allowed for some clarity, especially on whether I was being polemical. I was making a case for a way to think about fishing so as to not get too distracted from the fish and being out there where, at least to me, it "matters." But I was attributing no shame in casting in the lawn--I do it all the time--and I was pointing out how I distinguish it from fishing. The "argument" (meaning persuasion, not fiesty personal bickering) was mostly a semantic one intended to rethink these spheres of "practice" and real "fishing." We could entertain ourselves (or I could at least drag on for many tides) with debating the meaning of many more terms and how to best reconstruct or rearrange them, etc. I wasn't making any points that you should be on the water more than on the lawn--just that there are (again, for me) 2 different ends to which these spaces are part of the means. 

Like you, Andrew, I enjoy chatting about flyfishing whenever I'm not flyfishing or working. It's on my mind and I'm glad that there are communities--online or otherwise--where we can do this. Why some other people on fishing forums think that conversation and debate are not useful or are meant to be personal attacks, I have a hard time understanding. I could easily say that those folks have nothing to contribute to a conversation except to snicker at one side or another. And that's fine. Let the rest of us chat and they can take notes. But being a good student of anything requires putting your ideas out there to be refuted, rejected, or revered. 

So why did people take this one so seriously? Just because I wrote a long, structured response?


----------



## Intracoastal (Sep 12, 2009)

willy said:


> Joan Wolf + youtube / common sense = ?
> 
> if you want to shoot pool better, spend more time shooting pool, i bet you will get better at it as you spend more time learing the craft, and appreciate it even more as you learn, as well as learn to respect those of us that love our sport and still dont mind takein your money shootin pool =
> 
> ...


If you're referring to me anywhere in here (I get a sense that you are), you misread my lengthiest post.


----------



## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

Intracoastal said:


> Well the "you" I was using, other than when I specifically referred to your argument, Andrew, was a collective and generic one, to simplify the argument. Especially normative statements (i.e. "should...") were advice to newcomers given the topic of the thread. I suppose putting the whole thing in first person throughout would have allowed for some clarity, especially on whether I was being polemical. I was making a case for a way to think about fishing so as to not get too distracted from the fish and being out there where, at least to me, it "matters." But I was attributing no shame in casting in the lawn--I do it all the time--and I was pointing out how I distinguish it from fishing. The "argument" (meaning persuasion, not fiesty personal bickering) was mostly a semantic one intended to rethink these spheres of "practice" and real "fishing." We could entertain ourselves (or I could at least drag on for many tides) with debating the meaning of many more terms and how to best reconstruct or rearrange them, etc. I wasn't making any points that you should be on the water more than on the lawn--just that there are (again, for me) 2 different ends to which these spaces are part of the means.
> 
> Like you, Andrew, I enjoy chatting about flyfishing whenever I'm not flyfishing or working. It's on my mind and I'm glad that there are communities--online or otherwise--where we can do this. Why some other people on fishing forums think that conversation and debate are not useful or are meant to be personal attacks, I have a hard time understanding. I could easily say that those folks have nothing to contribute to a conversation except to snicker at one side or another. And that's fine. Let the rest of us chat and they can take notes. But being a good student of anything requires putting your ideas out there to be refuted, rejected, or revered.
> 
> So why did people take this one so seriously? Just because I wrote a long, structured response?


I should probably use the quotes more often. The response you're quoting here was my response to fontinalis's comment that you and I are over thinking this. It wasn't my response to you (as in "you" )

I think you and I are largely in agreement here, and I say that knowing that it might mean we'll all have to return to the boring stuff for a while.


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

I will continue to overthink my fishing, thank you.  


You can't appreciate the nuance of the sport & dumb it down @ the same time.


If you want something simple go fish farm ponds for largemouth.


----------



## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

fallen513 said:


> If you want something simple go fish farm ponds for largemouth.


Hey now!



(I hooked the biggest largemouth of my life this spring, lost it, and never saw it again.)


----------



## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

What is this "fly fishing" of which you all speak of?


----------



## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

Largemouth fishing...ahh how I love it. I have many recipes for success, but the one I use most (or used to) involves the same farm pond I caught my first bass out of 25+ years ago. It continues to produce trophies on a regular basis. I need to get out there with my fly rod & some poppers. 

So much simpler & easier than river fishing!


----------



## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

sbreech said:


> What is this "fly fishing" of which you all speak of?


It's like regular fishing, except you don't catch anything.


----------



## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

nitsud said:


> It's like regular fishing, except you don't catch anything.


and you look silly doing it


----------



## zippo (Apr 11, 2011)

ohiotuber said:


> Bottom line:
> Fish, practice on the lawn, in the water, what's it matter?....just have fun!
> Mike


I Think this is the the best answer so far. 

But I actually agree with Intracoastal because I Learned and only ever fished small freestone streams in the mountains of TN, KY, VT, and WVa so I never learned to cast for distance because well when I Fish these streams i am high sticking with nothing but about an half inch of my fly line out of the guides, but I did get good at roll casting, But then I went steelhead fishing yesterday and well I sucked for most of the day because I couldn't get the distance to drift the holes where they should have been, but after about 3 hours of trying I started to get the distance I needed.

Would if had helped to try and fish for the rabbits in the back yard? Yes
Would I had as much fun on the stream trying to figure this stuff out in the heat of the moment? No

But To each there own. Have fun, catch some fish, and forget about what others think about the way you go about fly fishing.


----------

