# live bait and a fly rod



## Guest

i know this is sacreligious, but do you guys ever use any kind of bait when using a fly rod? back in the 60s, seems as though a lot of anglers did. my dad had a cane rod and a south bend automatic reel and usually used crawlers for both bass and bluegills. he landed some really nice fish with that buggy whip.


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## bfurderer

I would think that the bait would fly off the hook when casting.


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## Guest

nope, especially with a softer rod. i never remember my father losing a crawler while casting. then again, cane rods were extremely soft.


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## wabi

Waxworms for released trout works fine. 
Caught more than one limit this spring.


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## Clayton

Against it. Ran into some guys who were doing that on the Conneaut for smallies. Blech.


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## fallen513

It just depends what you're trying to get out of the experience. 


For instance, I frequently superglue dogfood to a size 12 nymph hook.... it allows me to target surface feeding carp & cast from one carp to the next without reeling in my line. I'm not seeking the satisfaction of fooling the carp with a size 22 nymph, I'm going after the thrill of having half your line ripped out & the rod being bent in half. 


Is it flyfishing? In my opinion, no. It's baitfishing. I think flyfishing is truly defined by using an _artificial_ fly, using fly line that allows you to lift your fly from the water & reposition it elsewhere without reeling in the line.... or flycasting. 



Just depends on your ultimate goal....for me, I go back & forth between wanting to catch fish any way possible & wanting to fool a cautious fish with a well represented fake. 

Tight lines.


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## steelheader007

I used to laugh my arse off when in PA years ago they would roll cast with minnows .. lol... when fishing for steelhead .. rol ...


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## fallen513

steelheader007 said:


> I used to laugh my arse off when in PA years ago they would roll cast with minnows .. lol... when fishing for steelhead .. rol ...



I'm sure the minnows appreciated that.


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## creekcrawler

If it worked well, more people would probably do it.
Flyrods just aren't the best way to present live bait.


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## Guest

creekcrawler said:


> If it worked well, more people would probably do it.
> Flyrods just aren't the best way to present live bait.


uh, years ago, panfishermen would use redworms and crickets with a fly rod, bass fishermen would throw a dangling crawler and some trout fishermen would throw grasshoppers and dug worms. as said, rods were softer then. most guys in this part of ohio would use live bait or poppers alot, back in the 60s and early 70s. it did work.


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## TheCream

fallen513 said:


> It just depends what you're trying to get out of the experience.
> 
> 
> For instance, I frequently superglue dogfood to a size 12 nymph hook.... it allows me to target surface feeding carp & cast from one carp to the next without reeling in my line. I'm not seeking the satisfaction of fooling the carp with a size 22 nymph, I'm going after the thrill of having half your line ripped out & the rod being bent in half.
> 
> 
> *Is it flyfishing? In my opinion, no. It's baitfishing*. I think flyfishing is truly defined by using an _artificial_ fly, using fly line that allows you to lift your fly from the water & reposition it elsewhere without reeling in the line.... or flycasting.
> 
> 
> 
> Just depends on your ultimate goal....for me, I go back & forth between wanting to catch fish any way possible & wanting to fool a cautious fish with a well represented fake.
> 
> Tight lines.


I think that bolded quote hits the nail on the head. Me, I'd never do it, but I don't have anything against those who want to do it. To me, it's just not fly fishing. It takes away the main reason I would be using a fly rod in the first place.


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## Shortdrift

I agree 100% with fallen 513. I have fished for everything from King Salmon to Creek Chubs using a flyrod with artificials as well as bait both live and manufactured. I truly enjoy the taking of any fish on a flyrod or any other type tackle and never criticize or find fault with anyone and their method as long as it is legal.


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## fallen513

creekcrawler said:


> Flyrods just aren't the best way to present live bait.



Actually, I think a fly rod may be the best way to present a cricket or grasshopper. 

How else can you cast something so fragile & small 80 feet without having it sink when it lands?


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## RonT

80' feet....? Man,you guys are sure out of my league. Don't recall the last time that I had a "live" whatever on my hook as "bait', probly tried it, recognized it for what it was (wasn't) and moved on. And fer sure wouln't attempt any cast at that distance with bait. Well....maybe on a bet...(Kevin, you here?).
I had a mentor (RIP "Champ") who fished salted minnows using a double hook, needle w/open eye, and a looped leader, when he absolutely, positively, had to catch a fish. He used somekinda' bastardized rollcast and never saw that more than ~30-40',....if even that far.
It probly can be done, but not fer me.
R


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## fallen513

RonT said:


> 80' feet....?


On my 3 weight.


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## wabi

fallen513 said:


> On my 3 weight.


I usually CATCH live bait on my 3wt. :B 

(just kidding, but it's about the right size.  - took a #20 griffith's gnat)


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## fallen513

See? You just backcast, haul & plant that badboy down 30' farther than where you picked him up.


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## fishon

i use Plactics on my fly rod....... when things are slow ...... deadly..

Frank


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## bigduck10

Funny this came up. I was taking with a New Englander on the striper forum about the very same thing. When I posted and asked the question is it cheating I got a ton of responses. Of course the purist said it was not fly fishing. Others said since I was using a fly rod it was fly fishing. I did not get one response that was negative but mostly it was a discussion on what is fly fishing.
I was using a 10 weight rod with sinking line. Used a large clauser with crab attached and dropped them over the side. No casting. We couldnt get a bite on flies so we tried this method. We hammered them. 
It was not near as fun as casting but a 15 pound striper is a 15 pound striper.


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## fallen513

bigduck10 said:


> Funny this came up. I was taking with a New Englander on the striper forum about the very same thing. When I posted and asked the question is it cheating I got a ton of responses. Of course the purist said it was not fly fishing. Others said since I was using a fly rod it was fly fishing. I did not get one response that was negative but mostly it was a discussion on what is fly fishing.
> I was using a 10 weight rod with sinking line. Used a large clauser with crab attached and dropped them over the side. No casting. We couldnt get a bite on flies so we tried this method. We hammered them.
> It was not near as fun as casting but a 15 pound striper is a 15 pound striper.



Interesting. As I stated, I'm definitely not against it, especially when the fish just aren't biting artificials. 

That being said, I think the definition of "fly" fishing is in the name.

Fishing with a "fly". What is a fly in regards to the discussion at hand?

An _artificial_ representation of something the fish naturally eats. If you're not using an artificial bait, you ain't flyfishin'. 


My .02.


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## Guest

my intent was not to define fly fishing, but wondering if anyone ever used live bait, as many in the past did, with their fly rods. i do all kinds of fishing, all species, mostly artificials but sometimes live bait. it is fishing. an escape from the burdens of life. i like to catch fish whether it be with a caddis or a rapala. guess i am not an elitist, i just use my fly rod to catch fish.


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## fallen513

rapman said:


> my intent was not to define fly fishing, but wondering if anyone ever used live bait, as many in the past did, with their fly rods. i do all kinds of fishing, all species, mostly artificials but sometimes live bait. it is fishing. an escape from the burdens of life. i like to catch fish whether it be with a caddis or a rapala. guess i am not an elitist, i just use my fly rod to catch fish.



And I agree wholeheartedly. I don't play semantics when it comes to _fishing_. 



Its about the experience, whether you're sharing it with a friend, a son or daughter or just yourself... it's being outdoors, hearing the water rush over the rocks, watching the 10 deer cross the stream directly ahead of you.


Do what makes you happy.


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## wabi

rapman said:


> my intent was not to define fly fishing, but wondering if anyone ever used live bait, as many in the past did, with their fly rods. i do all kinds of fishing, all species, mostly artificials but sometimes live bait. it is fishing. an escape from the burdens of life. i like to catch fish whether it be with a caddis or a rapala. guess i am not an elitist, i just use my fly rod to catch fish.


I have to agree. 
I love to fish, whether it's bass with artificial lures, catfish with stink bait, panfish with a fly, or the trout released in the local lake each spring.
I have found the fly rod offers the best way to present the best bait I've found for those trout (waxworms)! A small hook (#14 Kahle) and a light (6X) leader with no weight offers a way to present the waxworms that the trout can't resist. 
I've tried a slip bobber rig on a light baitcasting rod/reel (I gave up on spinning tackle when I started using fly rods) and it not nearly as effective when it comes to actually catching the trout!

the results of waxworms with the fly rod -


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## Flyfish Dog

We use a lot of berkley lil 3 inch plastic worms on the fly rod to catch many trouts and other fish when nothing else works rather than go home whining it better to catch a fish by all means available. Sure there are some purists and their thoughts are only their own merits not mine. Heck I was using a live 4inch bluegill with a 8/0 hook thru its back for catfishing on my 10wt but didnt catch a thing though.


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## Fishaholic69

noooooooooooooooooo!!!! don't do it!!!!!! : P


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## fishon

Flyfish Dog said:


> We use a lot of berkley lil 3 inch plastic worms on the fly rod to catch many trouts and other fish when nothing else works rather than go home whining it better to catch a fish by all means available. Sure there are some purists and their thoughts are only their own merits not mine. Heck I was using a live 4inch bluegill with a 8/0 hook thru its back for catfishing on my 10wt but didnt catch a thing though.




i use gulp alive minnies or worms as well when the fish refuse to hit flies .. need to save the day some how...

you may stone me...


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