# Open season on Cats



## fffffish (Apr 6, 2004)

It might be fun but it would be way to easy in my neighbor hood
Here is a link to the story to the story below
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002237748_cats11.html

Wisconsin may legalize killing feral cats
By John McCormick
Chicago Tribune
MADISON, Wis.  Fluffy is in the crosshairs in Wisconsin, and cat lovers nationwide are rallying to try to defeat a proposal that could lead to the legalized shooting of stray cats. Not since an emotional debate in 2000 over the creation of a hunting season for mourning doves has there been so much controversy over the killing of an animal in this state, a place where outdoor traditions run deep. 
Death threats have been made against the western Wisconsin firefighter who first proposed that hunters, farmers and others be allowed to kill free-roaming cats to control their population, estimated at a million-plus statewide. 
The proposal meets its first formal hurdle this evening, when thousands of people are expected to provide an advisory vote at conservation hearings in each of the state's 72 counties. Horrified cat lovers and the Wisconsin Humane Society are encouraging opponents to attend the hearings, which traditionally have been dominated by hunters and outdoor enthusiasts. 
The proposal  to classify feral cats as an unprotected species  would still need approval from the state Natural Resources Board and Wisconsin lawmakers. A small-game license might be needed to kill a cat, depending on whether they are deemed wild animals or a public nuisance. 
A wild or feral cat is typically defined as one with no collar that does not show friendly behavior. Wildlife officials say studies suggest they kill millions of songbirds in Wisconsin each year. 
For some, the elimination of such cats has long been considered part of the "sportsman's code," a way to protect game birds. Many farmers and rural residents also routinely kill the animals. But shooting a cat is technically illegal in Wisconsin, even if it is harming livestock. 
Mark Smith, a La Crosse, Wis., firefighter who traps and hunts, first made the feral-cat proposal after he was angered by cats that prowl around his home's birdfeeder. He did not return a phone call requesting an interview. 
Before the proposal reached the statewide level, it was passed on a 53-1 vote a year ago at the La Crosse County hearing of the Conservation Congress, an advisory group to the state Department of Natural Resources. 
"We agree that cats don't belong in the wild," said Ted O'Donnell, who has helped organize a Web site and printed T-shirts in support of feral cats. "But this is probably the least progressive way to approach the feral-cat issue." 
O'Donnell, a 30-year-old Madison pet-store owner and self-described "cat freak," is one of the leaders of the "Don't Shoot the Cat" movement, an effort that has politely, yet forcefully, taken on one of Wisconsin's most powerful political lobbies: hunters. 
Feral cats play an important role in reducing rodent populations, said O'Donnell, who has five cats. He said his group is also encouraging farmers to help spay and neuter cats. 
Hunters, especially those who live in the city and don't see as much feral-cat activity, are far from unified. 
"It's probably not a good idea, because you don't know if you are shooting someone's pet or a feral cat," said Gary Dallmann, a turkey and deer hunter from Madison. 
Copyright © 2005 The Seattle Times Company


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

I know there would be more dead cats aroudn my house if it weren't for the fact that neighbors are so close. so called house cts that get to run free in the town and they come to my yard to poop and walk all over the vehicles.

people kill these cats anyway. I know around here they do.

I am not totally against cats, but I think they should have the same things as dogs. liscense and all that. Should not be aloud to run free as many people in my neck of the woods allows.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2005)

My people are firm believers in that we don't believe in killing anything you ain't going to eat. And I don't want to eat no cat. And I don't think I would get a whole lot of fun out of shooting some little neighborhood girl's house pet.


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## fffffish (Apr 6, 2004)

You must not visit many Chinese restaurants


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Feral cats and house cats on the loose or the #1 killer of small game animals in this country (and others I would guess). I won't kill one in the city, but if I see one while hunting...it's a nuisance species and will be dealt with as such.

I know it's harsh, but those things have got to be controlled.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Fact of the matter is the cats that run wild are DEVASTATING to wildlife and should be shot on site. Has nothing to do with the " Bambi " sydrome . I really am blown away by people who insist it's a-ok to let cats, dogs, whatever free roam and destroy wildlife.. Looks to me like Wisconsin said how many cats are running wild ? A million ? THAT'S FREAKIN CRAZY....... It sickens me to see three or four dogs biting a deer and running it until it collapses or cats killing bob white quail , turkey , and whaever else they can get a hold of........ THE CATKING !!!


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2005)

Crankus, do not be killing cats out in the wild without the proper tag. I don't want to see you get locked up. I don't know where you people live, but I don't see cats as that big of a problem at my place. I think I have two cats that roam my ranch full time or three if I count Mr. Whiskers who only shows up once a month. I haven't really seen them destroying anything except baby bunnies and bird's nest.

Personally, I don't care for dogs that much especially when they eat up my garden or track me to my treestand, but I still don't kill them. But if that dog is a coyote, it'll get the business right between the eyes! Ever since my nephew was attacked, I'll take out every coyote I can.


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## lastv8 (Oct 11, 2004)

Sheephead Master said:


> . I haven't really seen them destroying anything except baby bunnies and bird's nest..


and you don't see the problem with wild cats?


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

I think that an open season on the people that do not get their pets spayed /neutered would be more appropriate.


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## lastv8 (Oct 11, 2004)

very good point Rooster


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

I think people who want to save animals should all get together and buy a state or 2, then take all of the animals they want to save there and while they are there...shoot themselves and leave the their land to the animals....kinda kills 2 birds with 1 stone...so to speek


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## FishnJoe (Apr 20, 2004)

Here we go again. I am a cat lover. I am a dog lover. I am a animal lover. I am not a member of Peta. I live in the country. I have a cat. I keep my cat inside. My cat is neutered. Sometimes he escapes. He is 9 years old now. During those times that he escaped he brought home 2 wrens (bush nesters) and probably 20something mice and a couple of moles. I don't want mice around but I really didn't want Charlie to get all nasty w/them since he sleeps on my furniture. So cats are important to all of us that live at the edge of greenbelts. Remember how green last summer was. Plenty of rainfall. = more plants and resulting in plenty of seeds, etc. Plenty of mice. I had an explosion of them. If I stood still I could watch them work through tall grassy fields behind my place. Last winter they ate a hole in my garage door gasket. I didn't see it until I had them crawling live. Makes me sick. My boat, RV, and a couple muscle cars full of mouse crap.I found glue traps work best. I don't use posion because of my dogs and cat. Even thought the garage is off limits, I don't want to take chances.Besides I didn't want rotting mice in garage. I know that this method of g trap isn't the most humane but I had no other choice. One more thing, I think you got it backwards, about those states set aside for people who respect animals. Why not a state for people who don't care or hate animals. It's wrong to go shooting cats. Just medieval thinking to blame cats.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

Cats are the worst ecological disaster to hit north america in modern times hands down. Anyone who lets their cat out to "make it happy" and thinks they feed it enough so it won't kill something is completely naive. Fluffy is perfectly happy on your couch and doesn't need to go out....EVER. It can be fed the $20 a can catfood till it weighs more than a lab and it will still kill whatever it can. They can't help it. You can't blame the cat for doing what nature designed it to but you can blame the owners and if someone let's it outside they should have their cat killed on the spot. Cats are great pets...indoor pets. 

Elamenohpee, what exactly were you implying? you talking about the people who want to save the cats or the people who want to kill the cats to save the wildlife (animals) because your statement kinda attacked both sides.


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## WINative (Sep 15, 2004)

I have two cats: one is a killer mouser, the other is a nasty little scavenger. I love both of them. Both are "fixed." Both of them spend most of their time indoors.

Living in apartments in urban areas for much of my life, I've seen some repulsive infestations of mice and rats. I've had rats eat the wiring in my car and nest in my old Evinrude 25hp. I've also had rats chase my poor girlfriend down the street (this was actually kind of funny -- shhh don't tell her).

Two things seem to reduce the rodent population, in my limited experience: poison, which works as long as landlords are willing to pay for it and maintain pest control; and a handful of neighborhood cats, which kill the rodents with little or no cost. I don't know exactly how the poisons affect the watershed, but I'll bet they are worse than the cats in this regard.

I don't think that allowing cats to run totally wild is the solution to rodent problems in every case. And I've thrown my share of rocks at pugnacious alley cats. But, in my experience, cats do seem to keep the rodent population down in some urban areas.

JM


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## Darwin (Apr 12, 2004)

Rooster said:


> I think that an open season on the people that do not get their pets spayed /neutered would be more appropriate.


  I agree and we could call it the "B.B.P.C.A." (Bob Barker Population Control Act)


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## clembo (Dec 14, 2004)

I have lived in the country most of my lifeand i really don`t see where the cats are such an ecological disaster. They hunt mioce, moles and wrens and in the spring they get a baby rabbitonce in a while. My animals are spayed or neutered just to keep them from running. Last year the biggest buck ever to get in my sights was chasedf off by a coyoette. The thirty years i9 have lived in ohio they were never seen now they are everywhere. In the mountains of wva where i grew upnever heard of them only saw them out west now thedeer kill has been down 50% every for the last 3 yearsand they say it is the mast .But what i see in the snow around the beds are coyotte tracks. Better take care of them before youworry about some house cats, They will kill young turkey chicks, rabbits, squirrels,pheasants, and anything elose that represents food.


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

I like the idea of coyotes taking care of the cat population...after all, dogs were sent to the earth to rid humankind of cats in the first place.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

> They will kill young turkey chicks, rabbits, squirrels,pheasants, and anything elose that represents food.


 So do cats, and there are way, WAY, more cats running around than coyotes. If some of you acutally knew what your cats were up to when out running around, you may have a better undertanding of the problem. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't dead.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

coyotes have a very small impact on the deer herds as well, while they may be able to take down a sick or injured deer, and mabye occasionally a healthy one if working in a pack they really represent a very small factor in deer deaths. you really want to get rid of their main predators then tell people to drive a little more carefully at night. 

Here are some facts for those people that don't see a problem:

the United States has approximately 60 million pet cats and 60 million ferals. Feral populations are swollen by breeding and the dumping of unwanted pets; 5 million cats and dogs are 'dumped' annually according to the US Department of Agriculture while American surveys suggest that between 36% and 60% of unneutered pet cats go feral within 3 years.

A single individual free-ranging cat may kill 100 or more birds and mammals per year. Scientists in Wisconsin estimate that cats kill at least 7.8 million birds per year in that state alone.

Observation of free-ranging domestic cats shows that some individuals can kill over 1000 wild animals per year [7], although smaller numbers are more typical. Some of the data on kills suggest that free-ranging cats living in small towns kill an average of 14 wild animals each per year. Rural cats kill many more wild animals than do urban, or suburban cats [8]. Several studies found that up to 90% of free-ranging rural cats' diet was wild animals, and less than 10% of rural cats killed no wild animals [9]. Recent research [10] suggests that rural free-ranging domestic cats in Wisconsin may be killing between 8 and 217 million birds each year. The most reasonable estimates indicate that 39 million birds are killed in the state each year. *Nationwide, rural cats probably kill over a billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of birds each year.* Urban and suburban cats add to this toll. Some of these kills are house mice, rats and other species considered pests, but many are native songbirds and mammals
whose populations are already stressed by other factors, such as habitat destruction and pesticide pollution. 

Worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction. Cats are contributing to the endangerment of populations of birds such as Least Terns, Piping Plovers and Loggerhead Shrikes. In Florida, marsh rabbits in Key West have been threatened by predation from domestic cats [11]. Cats introduced by people living on the barrier islands of Florida's coast have depleted several unique species of mice and woodrats to near extinction [12, 13].

You might only see a few birds or chipmunks a year but that doesn't mean that is all there is. So my final question, unless you have a severe mouse problem why do people let their cats outside?


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

*Cats that run loose only...*
Kill em all let God sort them out


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

I don't think the thread is the problem...it's replies like yours that are the problem.

BTW....I like cats myself....they spin in circles when you shoot' em.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

If you don't like it stay out of the thread...  
I don't see anyone getting bashed on here  

I can only speak for myself but I will not shoot any cat just that cats that are in the areas I hunt which I hap'n to have permission from the land owners to shoot every cat I see except for one who asked me not to shoot any and he said please which he did not have to do...
I don't hunt public land very much at all so don't know if there is a cat problem on them or not...

Replying to a thread simply to have it shut down is wrong...


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

It should be a law that ALL cat (whether inside or not) wear a permanantly attached bell arould their necks. This would serve 2 purposes. 1. In the event your bird killing machine did get away from you and made it outside, a hunter would know that it is a house cat and have mercy on it (NOT). 2. to alert hunters in the field that some target practice is coming.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Also....
Cats that are in the city and near buildings serve a useful purpose but those that are left off on country roads need to be removed if it is allowed by the owner of the property where you hunt... IMO


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

I am(was) sick and tired of my neighbors cats getting into my trash, and walking all over my truck.

Oddly enough, my neighbor keeps wondering where all of her cats are disappearing to.

I have no problem putting an end to something that will, and does, devalue my property.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

Again, why can't people make the distinction between feral cats and pet cats?

I'll put this in a way everyone can agree with. You're a meat hunter, a 100% catch and release, or you love fish and hate fisherman because they hurt the fish  , it doesn't matter. you catch goby, and it's pregnant. Do you release it? no, you toss it to seagulls or slam it on the ground. Is this because you're bloodthirsty or love to kill fish? NO, you do it because they don't belong here and they severly impact native fish. Neutering it and releasing it, if that is possible, will stop it from reproducing, but it will still raid smallmouth nests and be a problem. Cats are the exact same situation. No one here is saying that cats are terrible and the only good one is a dead one. Cats are great pets, have as many as you want, i see nothing wrong with them or people that keep and love them. It's when people don't get them spayed or neutered and cause wild litters, let their cats outside, or simply drop them off in the countryside that they become a problem. when that happens, they need to be dealt with.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Dude he was talking about my uncle and not my cat... 
HUGE diff...


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

First of all, I am an animal lover, I currently own a dog, & I have owned cats as well in my life. 

I don't think this topic is referring to killing peoples pets, but rather wild cats. Yes, there are some areas that may be borderline where it is hard to tell wild from pet. If you live in those areas you'd better be sure to keep your cat on your property. 

The thing I hate most about wild cats is that they kill just to kill - they don't eat what they kill. At least a coyote eats whatever they kill! I've dispatched many cats and even 1 dog in my life (the dog was wild and would not stop killing our chickens; we couldn't keep him out even with fence). All were dispatched due to these reasons, and I did not enjoy killing them.

Anybody who does not understand how much damage wild cats actually do just has obviously not had the first hand view. Anymore there are so many yote dogs in my area we don't have a wild cat population. Nature takes care of that problem itself. 

My final thought is to remind you all that animals were put on this earth for man to rule over - not the other way around!


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

I can honestly say this thread was a real eye opener for me. A property owner granting permission to hunt should NEVER have to specify no shooting of cats. Without going into a great amount of detail let's just say the two deer stands I allowed on my property last year will be replaced with posted signs this year. I plan to advise my neighbors of the same.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

its as simply as I asked and he answered...
Adults having a grown up conversation with respect for each other can't ask for more then that...


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Net - I have had property owners specifically show me their pet cat(s) and tell me to kill all others. I've had owners allow me to hunt deer, but no small game. I always comply with their requests - it is their property. I think both parties should communicate on exactly what is to be killed & what is to be left alone.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Thresher, 

Editied the beginning as it was more behind the scenes stuff than anything.

Anyway, keep your cats in your house & collared & you wont have a problem & no one will "Have Hell To Pay" as you put it. I dont think you want 1 or 2 of us "Blood Thirsty Hillbillies" on your back let alone 5 or 6. Dont gripe & complain about this so called "bashing" if your going to come right back & say the stuff you have. You say Hillbilly as its bad, excuse me sir, some of may not have been born w/ a silver spoon in our mouth, or are just in a country state of mind, does that make us Hillbillies? 

FYI: I do think the flathead fishing w/ kittens is a little much. Should've plucked the dudes hair out of his head & made dry flies w/ it!


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## lastv8 (Oct 11, 2004)

wow, all of this over a wild cat? hey, has anyone went fishing yet?


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I've been Catfishing. It's been fun too, some are starting to bite.

I can honestly say that I dont know a single mod. I've on here & the former site since '99 & dont think I've ever met a single mod. (goes to show I've been lazy more than anything!)


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## bubbahunter (Apr 6, 2004)

Not sure what the problem is?

The way i see it wild feral cats are a threat to small game and should be delt with.If you want little fluffy to be safe in the rare case she should run out the door on you then put a set of tags on her so she isn`t confused with the wild feral cat.I put tags on my labs so if they do get out of the kennel and are on the loose they are not mistaken for strays or wild dogs and can be returned home.

Like any other critter i hunt i am after a quick humane kill,i do not think anyone on this site would want to see even a wild feral cat suffer.even us "blood thirsty hillbillies".which i take as a personal attack being from the south.My family has raised me on generations of good southern morals and none of the hillbilly folks i know would ever want to see a critter suffer for no reason. so do not lump us into a group of the ignorant people that would shoot a cat just to shoot one.I have killed plenty of cats in my day and i`m sure i will put a few more down before it`s all said and done.

As far as the bashing goes, you might want to go back and reread the first post i left.i wasn`t bashing anyone.what i said was before you start bustin someones butt you might want walk a mile in their shoes so you know what it takes to raise a large family.then came the comment about the paylake and the 2 of us(Clyde and i ) having a family reunion,which i took personal.If it gets personal then i`ll take to a personal level, bottom line is dont start on my family,my friends because i hold them all near and dear to my heart.and thats about as simple as i can put it.

Bub


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

..you guys along with me are falling into his 
(I'll get this thread closed anyway I can) trap... IGNORE him is best...
GOOD hunting all... and fishing too


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

You'd think the guy would just not read it if he was so disgusted. Too many folks like that around anyway. They seem to try and start something so they can go cry that their feelings were hurt and people should feel sorry and append their ways for the sake of the one. Too bad. I'm from WI and have been looking for guide services...any of you know any good ones .


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## blance (Apr 5, 2004)

Blood-Thirsty Hillbilly????? Why that describes most of us from the great kountry Pennsyltucky. cetpin' we prefer high power to those pea shooter 22's. Gimme a 30-06 or my daddys old 257 and a 200 yard shot and we's can make it real sportin' like. ya'all know like us blood thirst-hillbillys and all we's kinda like that sportin' thang. "God, Guns and 4 Wheel Drive", that's what pappy always used to say.   

big_b16: if you're looking for am 'eye guide on Erie, I say check with a member named Marc Hudson (EZMarc). He wasn't a charter captain back when I went out with him, but he was working on his license. Great guy to spend a day with catching some fish and more than willing to share his knowledge and techniques.


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## Reel Lady (Jul 4, 2004)

My suggestion is for everyone here to just "_AGREE_ TO _DISAGREE_" and just respect the fact that everyone has their own opinion, and that they are neither _right_ or _wrong_.
You must understand that for as passionate as YOU may feel about a subject, that someone may feel JUST as passionate about the complete opposite. 
Hearing ( I mean _Listening_ to )other peoples point of view can really have a way of opening up your mind. 
Lets all be nice....we can all have differing opinions...not right, not wrong, just different. Thats okay. 
Arguing/defending your point of view can be done right, *if  * it done in a non-attacking and diplomatic kind of way. 
Just be nice and respect others _EVEN_ though their opinion may be different from your own.


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## Reel Lady (Jul 4, 2004)

Thresher said:


> That was nice Marcia .............
> Got any Cats?
> 
> T


LOL... well, yes.. actually I do. Two of them along with 2 dogs, 3 ferrets, 1 turtle, and a snake that unfortunately just went to snake heaven :-(
But... I've also been in Cabo SanLucas where there are feral cats running around all over the place causing all sorts of havoc. These cats were definitely not like my cats. They were extremely malnourished looking, matted hair, definitely NOT friendly and really just plain nasty looking. 
To be honest, I could understand both sides of this argument. As long as my kitties are safe


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## blance (Apr 5, 2004)

> Neighboors shooting each other over a dead housecat that got into Aunt Myrtles birdbath.........


 Not to nitpick, but in order to make a slippery slope argument, you need to establish the slope actually exists and that the premise will truely lead to the conclusion. We most often see that style of argument from political types; increased speed limit will lead to mass carnage on the highways, concealed carry today and shootouts at the OK corral tomorrow.

truth be known, I'm not really as big of a hillbilly as I tried making my last post sound but I am a proud PA resident who also has a stray cat problem. Personally, I've never liked cats but did own one for a while when my kids brought one home against my wishes. The cat was okay until it took to spraying all my furniture, then it needed to go back to the shelter from where it came. We presently have approximately 20 strays running in our neighborhood keeping people awake at night while doing their "spring deed" and ensuring the next generation of strays. We've begged and pleaded with the city to do something about the problem, but they lack the interest and funding to deal. The root of the problem isn't the cats themselves, it's the people that owned them and dumped them when the got tired of them. If I had to wager money on it, these would be the same people that would buy a snake, alligator or invasive species of fish (snakehead) then dump them into the wild when they don't like the grown up version of their family pet.

Wether or not there's an open season on ferrel fluffy isn't the proper debate. The proper debate, in my mind, is what are we going to do to curb the current problem and deal with the source so an not to see a future recurrance. Unfortunately there's no effective way to deal with the souce; it has been going on for all my life and long before that likely. If legislation of penalties for releasing non-native species was the solution, we'd have seen an effective law on the books by now. Perhaps have-a-heart traps and turning the animals over to the humane society would be the answer, however they lack the resources to deal with the sheer numbers of animals. This would likely result in these animals being put to sleep for lack of willing and suitable foster families. The result is the same, dead cats while debate rages over the criteria used by the poor person who has to make that decision. Unfortunately the problem has gotten too large to be dealt with using the politically correct solution. I see alot of people getting on you (me included, but done in good fun) for your stand on the subject. To this point all I've been able to gather is that you are opposed to the WI solution. Their solution was something you've failed to give me in your argument; an alternative solution. The slippery slope at Aunt Marthas bird bath has failed to sway my opinion to your side of the isle. Please give me a viable alternative and I'd be more then willing to listen. Otherwise I'm tuning out the whole I'm right, you're wrong rhetoric just like I did during the last political election. In my mind there are two types of activists in the word. There are those that cry about some perceived injustice and those who actively persue solutions to the injustice. In my 36 years I've grown weary of the the former, but will respect the opinions of the latter in so much as to atleast hear them out.


Was that more civil Marcia?


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## Reel Lady (Jul 4, 2004)

Blance...very well put


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

I agree with what you guys have been saying! I don't think it would be right to kill the cat that was accidentally let out, but the ones who are outdoors in my area most of the time and come to my yard to do there duty and walk over the car and truck can bet that one day I will catch them with a BB just to get them on their way. I am not killing them, just warning them!  

I am sticking with it until there is a law that says that cat owners have to have them liscensed and leashed like dogs. then if I see Fluffy with a collar on, I will know he is ther by mistake and will not think twice.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

> I'm talking about layin down laws that limit who can or may shoot my cat , if he gets out of my backyard by mistake....I wouldnt think of shooting a guys Chocolate Lab if he got out and ran the yards one eve........ try to see that if you can guys.....


If your collarless cat gets out by mistake it may pay the ultimate price because of your ineptitude... its on your hands not mine... nothing short sighted about that...
If that lab chases my kids or looks to be harming me or mine it goes down too... simple as that... if you can understand that fine if not fine too
Take complete responsibility of you and yours and if you cannot then do not attempt to make me or others look like the one in the wrong...
That borders on absurd and shows how the few try to manipulate the many for their own inept actions...


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

At onetime the City of Akron's answer to cats was a method of euthanasia by intraperitoneal injection...
AMEN... someone was at least making an effort to amend the cat problem...
I hope the program is still in effect...


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

I have no attitude and I was with my children last night FYI...
I have no problem with anyone not agreeing with me I have a problem when someone expects me to belly up to their lack of understanding concerning free ranging cats then tries to force feed me that "my poor kitty got out by accident" then breed more little kitties to freely take swipes at local game populations and song birds...
Take care of your responsibility as a pet owner and we would not have this problem...
That is simple enough...
Too many pet owners let their animals breed freely then dump the litter on the road thinking its far better then the local animal shelter, dog and cat owners...
Cute little kitte cute little puppy till all grown up and they too get dumped along some country road or simply left to run free...
To be honest you seem like a quality pet owner that any cat would be lucky to have love and cherish but there are many who are not and that is where the problem starts...
I don't "kill anything" and have returned more dogs to their owners then not as some simply were not humanized if you will... If the land owner tells me to put a dog or cat down when on their property then its a done deal if not as stated before I adhere to their wishes it is with great respect that I am privileged to hunt their land...
You seem to be running out of "save my cat" responses and are now trying a stick and stone attitude... 
Won't work with me "been there done that"...


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

I think hillbillies are the most friendly and genuine people I have ever met.
When people call me a hillbilly I consider that a compliment.

If you really want to insult the others call them a city slicker or a yuppie.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

YUPPIE... yea that one would make the blood boil LOL...
Your right man most people I know who are honest to goodness country folks and not city transplants will give you the shirt off their back even if its the only one they have... I can't say enough about the friends I have who are the best friends anyone could ever ask for...


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

No biggie...most guys I know have been shootin' 'em for years (as long as I can remember) and will continue to do so. This really is a dead issue and wouldn't even be one if not for the publics realization of what hunters have known for years.

Everyone knows it take 1 reason NOT to do something to cancell 100 reasons TO do it. Usually crybabies get their ways.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Thresher, there's something you don't understand. There are many states where it IS legal. Wis. just happens to be getting the attention because it's new. Now I may been told wrong, but, from my understanding once an animal is on your property in Ohio, it's your choice. Again, I may have been misinformed, but if a person shoots a feral cat, it doesn't make them a poacher.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Nice try. I've read every post here. That's how I know your still clueless.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

I leave for three days on a big CAT SAFARI ( FISH ) and come back to this.....  .Glad to see you guys are keeping it civil for the most part  I also must point out that it does indeed matter where you live and far as feral cats. In the big cities , they do indeed keep the rats at bay. Where I live , where there is nothing but 1000's of acres of woods and fields, the cats are indeed feral and wild. They get dropped off by people who no longer want to care for them , and the cats prey on wild life and must be destroyed.........for those who live out in this area can tell very EASILY a wild cat from perhaps a pet that just is out for mischef.....Bottom line for me is this- Unless you have been approached by a pack of dogs, and I have, you have no idea the experiance.......This is why law officers will shoot dogs running in packs , even in suburban areas............happened in Cincinnati just last year I do believe.. Dogs, cats , whatever, once they start destructive behavoir , they have to be dealt with, for safety sakes...cats that are feral carry diesease , dogs rabies. ........CATKING


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## catfishhunter33 (Apr 6, 2004)

or lack of


cats dont have a leash law like dogs unless i am mistaken.if you shoot an animal it must die on your property or you can be sued ,then you must dispose of it.
there are problems with cats/dogs and sadly but necessary they must be attended to. 


no personal attack intended maggis

quote
Now I may been told wrong, but, from my understanding once an animal is on your property in Ohio, it's your choice.

once a neighbor had some cows break over a fence and come onto the property that we rented.my father and i helped the guy gather up his stock
as that is what neighbors/friends should do.

a month or so later the same farmer shot my old hound as he was on his property.claimed he had the right as it was his property.i was told that he would kill any dog/cat if it came on his property. my dog was on a rabbits trail not chasing farm animals but it was unimportant to him he had a right.

well some may have just lived with the end results but i killed at least twenty of his rightful cows over a period of years
2 goats
every dog he ever owned
cats also

we finally moved but sometimes i wonder if he ever regretted killing my dog because he had a right.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Hey Thresher- I see what you are saying........ by the way guys. I just watched a show on The Animal Channel yesterday and the following was told to all the viewers and I quote " In most states, if you SHOOT an animal that has ventured onto your property , you WILL be charged with a FELONY " unquote........The key word is " MOST " .seems unless your state has the law that specifically states you can shoot a domestic animal that has wondered onto your land, you are in violation of the law.... This goes with wild animals also. Say an animal that is protected enters your property and kills your livestock or whatever, say a Grizzle bear (  ) if you shoot it, your in DEEP DO DO  So what I'm saying is- you do not , under the law , always have the right to shoot something.........Just passing that on. I really thought if it entered your property, it's yours to shoot. No so...... Rick..


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

I respect the members who are passionate about cats. I agree with the shooting of feral cats, but people who love cats, love cats, no problem with them from me.......... not at all......  ..........THE CATKING !!!


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## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

best thing I have learned about cats is this. and I'm sure you have heard of this before.
the 3 S's
Shoot
Shovel
Shut up


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

3 S's .....  Funny stuff

Off topic, but king talked about packs of dogs, you will be scared crapless if approached by a packs of wild dogs. We've had tons in Hocking county. The game wardens help shoot them. My dad got jumped by a pack severla years ago, torn his arm up pretty good, he had his .38 on him, so he shot one, the other left, I'm assuming due to the shot. Thats one reason I'm always packing something when I'm down there. As described in the other posts cats do their damage in the wild too. I was the one that said keep your cat collared. I;m not saying I'd shoot it if it were on my property, but i would probally be in the cross haris, if I'd see a collar, it would be safe, same w/ dogs. I;ve had a few dogs that were collarded & they were spared. Now there are some dogs in Hocking County that didnt make it any farther. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

Please tell me what reason there is for letting a cat go outside? There is only one real reason for ever letting a cat be an "outdoor" cat... if your property is infested with rodents. Other than that why would you want to let the cat out? It's not a matter of principle that you have the right so you do. There is simply no reason to allow an animal to roam and hunt native wildlife, even if you *think* it's only a few wrens or sparrows a year. You know your cat will do it, no matter how well it's fed, so you letting your cat out is essentially the same as if you went out and popped a few birds, squirrels, or rabbits with your .22 for no reason. no good comes of it, no good comes from letting a cat out. Keep it inside, keep it alive, and keep you and your neighbors from having a problem. 

City cats aren't much better by the way, i still remember walking out to my car and hearing some crazy noise coming from under my car. I walked up and the local feral cat run out from under my car and i think nothing of it, until i back up and find a male cardinal with the entire torso missing and wings ripped apart. It was still alive and flopping around calling like crazy, with its feat and tail sitting ripped off next to it. Sure i know, cry me a river, but what really was the point of allowing a cat the opportunity to do that?


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

I think you're beating a dead horse horse now...Everybody's opinion has been expressed and you're not going to change mine or anyone else's. Nobody is talking about shooting your cat while it suns itself on your deck. 

Don't you think it might be time to move on? If nothing else, hopefully you'll be more careful in the future with allowing your cats outside.

Just because your cats have been declawed (I wonder how they felt about that...removing a finger at the first knuckle can't be too much fun) does'nt mean they don't kill.


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

BTW...terro ant poison is a much less obvious method....virtually untraceable


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

> I think you're beating a dead horse horse now...


AMEN lmnop...

BTW that anti-freeze deal is wrong...
I take no pleasure in any animal suffering a fate from that...
One shot one kill...


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Does that mean I get the last word on this?
--->Last Word<---


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

a little wasp spray on their pretty fur coat keeps out of your trash for a while too!


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## JV1 (Apr 18, 2004)

i own 2 dogs, should they leave the property, I can get fined, or have to go bail hem out of the pound .... the worst harm they could cause???? taking a poop on the neighbors lawn .... however on 2 occasions .... neighbors cats have deystroyed my property ... I had my BRAND NEW patio furniture crapped on ... by a white cat .. whom I watched scratch his but all around on the cusion then poop ... I handled that one immediatly right on the front porch ....then even worse... ... an orange cat ... climbed atop of my wifes 2005 convertible tracker and used her rag top to sharpen his nails causing $700 in damage ... First I called the police and filed a report and had pictures taken of the roof ....then at the officers request I went to the neighbors house where the cat is fed daily...and they said it was not their cat ....it was a stray ...and had no intrest hearing my sad story about my car's roof ... ... so I handled that cat the following day... im a firm beliver that cats should wear a license like a dog and be required to stay on their own property... until then... i view an outside cat the same i do a muskrat ...... no sense fighting about it ... if it were my dog who chewed the neighbors car my butt would be in small claims court paying for the damage ... but becuase the dead cat wore no license I could not prove who the owner was .... $700 out of my pocket .... since the orange cats demise ... another "stray" has been feeding at the same house ..... and has since deystroyed another neighbors property ...and now he is on the rampage waiting for the cat to step 1 paw in his yard .... its probably a done deal already as I have not seen the cat for days .. ... I feel the neighbor is to blame for letting the cats run wild .but in my neighborhood the locals know how to handle it .. without thinking twice ..... POW


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## JV1 (Apr 18, 2004)

i have the utmost respect for the kittys indoors with a family and cat toys .... but "feral" cats could be bad news .. for animals and people... the same as any animal that is left uncontrolled .. if a crow is a pest they post bounty ... if a boar is a pest no closed season .... a goose is a pest....special regs .. rat = rat trap .. bears = relocate ...... ownerless kitty cats ... nothing you could do becuase of the "pet " image .. hats off to WISC for taking action ... maybe now out of fear... if someone loves their cat they keep him out of the woods and in their loving home.. where PETS belong.. on another note... my next door neighbor just put down his dog of 6 years for leaving the property and biting a child .. a hard pill to swallow but he did it.....responsibility and liability .... sorry if someone does not like this ... i feel cat owners .... as dog owners .. should have responsibility and liability my dog bites you he is put down and i pay ..... your cat craps on my favorite chair and rips my leather roof ... and there is no liability ... does not make sense .. but thats changing now...ok im done


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2005)

Next door cat got into the garden we just spent two weeks palnting.
Caut it with the shoots in its mouht.
He aint eating salad no moore.
Kill all of them. God acn keep the ones he wants. We dont want none of them.
Should be a bonty on thim.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

*WELCOME ABOARD* honker


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

That's just thresher being cute

I thought this thread was gone. Seems like more trouble than its worth.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Why/How are so many people getting multiple User Names? They obviously have no respect for the TOA of this site.


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

Thresher said:


> So guess again alphabet kid..............


That's the nicest thing you've said yet  

BTW...I agree with you...we did agree to disagree


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy. 

Here kitty, kitty. It's more realistic if you use your truck...looks like an accident. 

Hey CLyde, have you bagged your Tom yet? Gobbler that is - he-he.

I'm just a Hillbilly in yuppie clothes - I guess.


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## Fishpro (Apr 6, 2004)

Feral cats are a pest and do so much damage to wildlife if not controlled. They kill anything they can and eat about half of what they kill. How many times has your cat ever brought a dead mouse or bird to the door step as if to say "look what I caught"? 9 times out of 10, they dont eat it. Nothing like seeing a kitty do a flip after a 55/75 Gold Tip goes through the boiler room at fourty yds!!


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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

I'm Not going to get into the topic because i havn't read every post, however i have read a large number of them on this thread. and i see no point in pressing on with this arguement as a few people from both sides of the argument are so hard headed its not getting anywhere. they are simply comming up with points they have already explained. Though i am surprised with the number of replies this thread has received. I can agree with some points on each side of this arguement. i have noticed some people are starting with name calling and unnessesary comments. I mean, come on guys, i love this site, but you have a 17 year old kid asking a few of you to stop with the name calling.


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## ShakeDown (Apr 5, 2004)

I seriously doubt that Thresher, but it does sound good on paper.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2005)

Yes MonsterCaK11, this thread certainly has peaked interests. But I would disagree in that when people are passionate about a subject such as this, I believe a little name calling is more than appropriate. If the name calling upsets you, please move on to another thread of your liking or start a thread yourself.  

Thresher, come on man, I am a proud catlover myself but apparently we are in the minority on this site. I am used to being a minority in other ways than my love of cats. However, it is a God given right, that if some ******* wants to load up a grocery sack full of kittens and toss them into a farm pond, then they can. If they so choose to act like they didn't see the cat walking across the road and squish it in their big 4X4 trucks, then so be it. If they feel inclined to blast a cat in half with a high powered rifle then so be it as they will be punished for their sins when they meet their maker. 

Which reminds me, is there a Religious Forum on this site? I'm already trying to get a Political Forum started. The Lounge Forum is just too general. I sure hope this new Pope they elected speaks English. I guess there is white smoke coming out of the Sistine Chapel now indicating a new Pope has been elected. I guess it may also indicate the Chapel is on fire or I suppose it could mean its 420 in Rome?


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

Man Thresher, if you have such a problem with all these people saying bad things about cats, then why keep reading it??? Just ignore this thread. It would be easier. Also, I think more of us on here that have posted are saying that they kill if the cats are a problem, not just for the pleasure of it. Calling anyone names is getting your views no place at all. It will only make some us laugh and some may get a little offended. I would most likely guess that most people here are just enjoying someone whining about killing cats. You might be surprised at how many things are being said just to get you going. You just keep at it giving everyone more reason to say things. If it offends you so much, ignore it. If this site is so bad, as you said this thread give OGF a black eye, don't post on the site.


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## ShakeDown (Apr 5, 2004)

Thresher...it's not my site man, not by a long shot. You solicited mod intervention, and the only thing I can see is a difference of opinion, with the majority not jiving with yours.

If the ODNR was truely concerned with the validity of some of the claims made here (I doubt ODNR would even handle anything like this, since cats are not considered a natural resource, but are property), they would be hounding us for names and IP addresses. That hasn't happened (nor would we provide that info if it did, unless legally required to) so your statement about "our members" giving OGF a blackeye, sounds much better in print than it does in reality.


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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

rockbass said:


> Calling anyone names is getting your views no place at all. It will only make some us laugh and some may get a little offended.



i'm not targeting you, i just agree


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Thresher, you need to take your argument somewhere else. You are beating a dead cat - I mean a dead horse. 

A nuisance is a nuisance, whatever species it may be. 

If anyone is violating the TOS on this site, its you Thresher. Quit the name-calling and I bet you will be respected a lot more - well, maybe.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

Thresher, I get *pleasure* out of fishing. And when I fish, I sometimes end up killing the fish I'm targeting by hook swallowing, etc..... I also get a *pleasure* out of hunting. Sure I keep most game & eat it but I mainly hunt becasue I get *pleasure* out of it. Are you saying that God is going to punish me for that?

You've said some things that I have heard from PETA in the past. ie: The Fishing For Big Game & using Kittens for bait..... sure it's something I personally wouldnt do (unless I'd get one BIG FLATHEAD!  ) anywasy PETA has used the same situation but used minnows, yes minnows instead of cats. They say the minnow can feel pain more than we used to think. They get bleeding hearts to feel bad for the kitten situation then come in & while everybodys all down & try & make the same hodl true for minnows or other fish. Would you think that God would be ticket at me for killing that creek chub I'm using as CATfish bait just like he would be for the Cat that I've killed? Who are we to say that a kitten or cat is more valuable than a minnow? They both are living creatures right? God made both of those things right? What if the cat that was in my yard was going after my pet hamster & planned on killing it. If I killed the cat, I would be saving the hampster right? Where would God stand on that one?


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

I find humans to be a nuisance species. Any chance on an open season anytime soon?


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I too find some of them like that Rooster. I have an "In Law" problem.


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## Ducker27 (Apr 19, 2005)

Yeah so anyone want to see the pic of the 31 1/2 inch lake trout we caught while ice fishing lasts month. Don't mean to change the subject but lets get some meaningful conversation going here. (hehe) Bet seriously I got tonnes of cool pics from this past year......


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

The fishing w/ Kittens reminds me of a joke/story they always told us up in Minnesota:

On a mid June morning, a lady was at the edge of her dock screaming & crying. A couple fishermen drive their boats over to her try to calm her down & find out whats wrong. She says "My little poodle went for a swim then a huge Muskie came up & ate him" Both fisherman ask the same question at the same time: *"What color was your poodle?"*


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

Great joke


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## ShakeDown (Apr 5, 2004)

Sorry to disappoint you Thresher, but we're not the thought police. One mans trash, seems to be a majority's treasure in this case...that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it just like everyone else. 

Don't blame me, other owners or mods for the way the thread has gone. If you let people push your buttons, they will.


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## ShakeDown (Apr 5, 2004)

I would agree 100% man. I'm surprised it made it this long, to tell you the truth. Can we all just let it die? I see someone wants to kill rabbits in another thread. That might take everyone's minds off this one for a few


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## Reel Lady (Jul 4, 2004)

Thresher said:


> OOO Really ? !!! YUM !! you know its AMAZING How much different Rabbits and Cats taste..................................


Hey... wait a minute.....I use to have PET BUNNIES!!!! :-0


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Toot Toot Toot. I don't see this as much of a bandwagon though. 

You don't know my history at all. You just keep on lashing out and see how far it gets you. I never called you a name, so why the need to insult me at least twice? 

You have picked the wrong tree to meow up.


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Actually, it's the History channel. You should try it. You might actually learn something useful.....

I'll be the bigger man and let you have the last word...if it means so much to you.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

Introduction
Domestic cats first arrived in North America with European colonists several hundred years ago. Since that time, cats have multiplied and thrived as cherished pets, unwanted strays, and semi-wild predators. Although often overlooked as a problem, free-ranging cats affect other animals, often far from the homes and farms they share with people. Because we brought the domestic cat to North America, we have a responsibility to both the cats and to the wild animals they may affect. Here are some interesting and perhaps surprising facts concerning the contemporary dilemma posed by free-ranging domestic cats in the United States. 


How cats became domesticated
Domestic cats originated from an ancestral wild species, Felis silvestris, the European and African Wild Cat. The domestic cat is now considered a separate species, named Felis catus. In appearance, domestic cats are similar to their wild relatives, and many of their behaviors, such as hunting and other activity patterns, remain essentially unchanged from their ancestral form. Cats were first domesticated in Egypt around 2000 BC [1]. Domestic cats spread slowly to other parts of the globe, possibly because Egyptians prevented export of the animal they worshiped as a goddess. However, by 500 BC the Greeks had acquired domestic cats, and they spread cats throughout their sphere of influence. The Romans introduced the domestic cat to Britain by 300 AD. Domestic cats have now been introduced around the world, mostly by colonists from Europe. 


How many cats are there in the United States?
The estimated numbers of pet cats in urban and rural regions of the United States have grown from 30 million in 1970 [2] to 60 million in 1990 [3]. These estimates are based on U.S. Census data and include only those cats that people claim to "own" as pets, not cats that are semi-wild or free-ranging. Nationwide, approximately 30% of households have cats. In rural areas where free-ranging cats are usually not regarded as pets, approximately 60% of households have cats. In the state of Wisconsin alone, with approximately 550,000 rural households, the number of rural free-ranging cats (not house pets) may be as high as 2 million [4]. The combined total of pets and free-ranging cats in the U.S. is probably more than 100 million. Because of their close association with humans, most of these cats are concentrated in areas where people live rather than in remote undeveloped areas. 


The legal status of domestic cats
The laws that relate to domestic cats vary by local government. In most areas, the person who provides care for a cat is legally responsible for its welfare and control. As with other domestic animals, if ownership can be established by collars or other means of identification, a cat is considered personal property [5]. It is usually the responsibility of the owner to control the cat's movements. In most areas, cats can be live trapped and either returned to the owner or turned over to authorities if they wander onto other peoples' property. Many municipalities have leash laws and require vaccination and neutering of pet cats. Because laws vary, one should check local ordinances for the appropriate way to deal with stray cats. 


What effects do domestic cats have on wildlife?
Although rural free-ranging cats have greater access to wild animals and undoubtedly take the greatest toll, even urban house pets take live prey when allowed outside. Extensive studies of the feeding habits of free-ranging domestic cats over 50 years and four continents [6] indicate that small mammals make up approximately 70% of these cats' prey while birds make up about 20%. The remaining 10% is a variety of other animals. The diets of free-ranging cat populations, however, reflect the food locally available. 
Observation of free-ranging domestic cats shows that some individuals can kill over 1000 wild animals per year [7], although smaller numbers are more typical. Some of the data on kills suggest that free-ranging cats living in small towns kill an average of 14 wild animals each per year. Rural cats kill many more wild animals than do urban, or suburban cats [8]. Several studies found that up to 90% of free-ranging rural cats' diet was wild animals, and less than 10% of rural cats killed no wild animals [9]. Recent research [10] suggests that rural free-ranging domestic cats in Wisconsin may be killing between 8 and 217 million birds each year. The most reasonable estimates indicate that 39 million birds are killed in the state each year. Nationwide, rural cats probably kill over a billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of birds each year. Urban and suburban cats add to this toll. Some of these kills are house mice, rats and other species considered pests, but many are native songbirds and mammals whose populations are already stressed by other factors, such as habitat destruction and pesticide pollution. 

Despite the difficulties in showing the effect most predators have on their prey, cats are known to have serious impacts on small mammals and birds. Worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction. Cats are contributing to the endangerment of populations of birds such as Least Terns, Piping Plovers and Loggerhead Shrikes. In Florida, marsh rabbits in Key West have been threatened by predation from domestic cats [11]. Cats introduced by people living on the barrier islands of Florida's coast have depleted several unique species of mice and woodrats to near extinction [12, 13]. 

Not only do cats prey on many small mammals and birds, but they can outnumber and compete with native predators. Domestic cats eat many of the same animals that native predators do. When present in large numbers, cats can reduce the availability of prey for native predators, such as hawks [14] and weasels [15]. 

Free-ranging domestic cats may also transmit new diseases to wild animals. Domestic cats have spread feline leukemia virus to mountain lions [16] and may have recently infected the endangered Florida Panther with feline panleukopenia (feline distemper) and an immune deficiency disease [17]. These diseases may pose a serious threat to this rare species. Some free-ranging domestic cats also carry several diseases that are easily transmitted to humans, including rabies and toxoplasmosis [18]. 



Domestic cats vs. native predators
Although cats make affectionate pets, many domestic cats hunt as effectively as wild predators. However, they differ from wild predators in three important ways: First, people protect cats from disease, predation and competition, factors that can control numbers of wild predators, such as bobcats, foxes, or coyotes. Second, they often have a dependable supply of supplemental food provided by humans and are, therefore, not influenced by changes in populations of prey. Whereas populations of native predators will decline when prey becomes scarce, cats receiving food subsidies from people remain abundant and continue to hunt even rare species. Third, unlike many native predators, cat densities are either poorly limited or not limited by territoriality [19]. These three factors allow domestic cats to exist at much higher densities than native predators. In some parts of rural Wisconsin, densities of free-ranging cats reach 114 cats per square mile. In these areas, cats are several times more abundant than all mid-sized native predators (such as foxes, raccoons, skunks) combined. With abundant food, densities can reach over 9 per acre, and cats often form large feeding and breeding "colonies" (81 cats were recorded in one colony, and colonies of over 20 are not uncommon) [20, 21]. Unlike some predators, a cat's desire to hunt is not suppressed by adequate supplemental food. Even when fed regularly by people, a cat's motivation to hunt remains strong, so it continues hunting [22]. 


In summary
Free-ranging cats are abundant and widespread predators. They often exist at much higher densities than native predators. They prey on large numbers of wild animals, some of which are rare or endangered. They compete with native predators, and they harbor a variety of diseases. Yet, cats are popular pets. In order to have and care for our pets--and still protect our native wildlife--we must make an effort to limit in a humane manner the adverse effects free-ranging cats can have on wildlife. 


What you can do
Keep only as many pet cats as you can feed and care for. Controlling reproduction and humanely euthanizing unwanted cats will keep cat populations from growing beyond the size that can be adequately cared for. On farms, keep only the minimum number of free-ranging cats needed to control rodents. Well-fed, neutered females will stay closest to farm buildings and do most of their killing where rodent control is needed most. Traps and rodenticides, as well as rodent-proof storage and construction, will usually contribute more to effective rodent control than cats. 
If at all possible, for the sake of your cat and local wildlife, keep your cat indoors. Confinement will eliminate unwanted reproduction, predation on wild animals, and the spread of disease. Bells are mostly ineffective in preventing predation [23] because, even if the bell rings, it's usually too late for the prey being stalked. Declawing may reduce hunting success, but many declawed cats are still effective predators. Keeping your cats indoors helps protect the wildlife around your yard and prevents your cat from picking up diseases from strays or getting injured. The two most common causes of death for rural cats in south central Wisconsin are disease and being struck by automobiles. If cats must be allowed outdoors, consider using a fenced enclosure or runway. 

Neuter your cats or prevent them from breeding, and encourage others to do so. Support or initiate efforts to require licensing and neutering of pets. In areas where such laws already exist, insist that they be enforced. For information on local licensing and neutering laws, contact your local health department or humane society. 

Locate bird feeders in sites that do not provide cover for cats to wait in ambush for birds. Cats are a significant source of mortality among birds that come to feeders [24]. To prevent cats from climbing to bird nests, put animal guards around any trees in your yard that may have nesting birds. 

Don't dispose of unwanted cats by releasing them in rural areas. This practice enlarges rural cat populations and is an inhumane way of dealing with unwanted cats. Cats suffer in an unfamiliar setting, even if they are good predators. Contact your local animal welfare organization for help. 

Eliminate sources of food, such as garbage or outdoor pet food dishes, that attract stray cats. 

Don't feed stray cats. Feeding strays maintains high densities of cats that kill and compete with native wildlife populations. Cat colonies will form around sources of food and grow to the limits of the food supply. Colonies can grow to include dozens of animals [21]. Maintenance of colonies of free-ranging or feral cats through supplemental feeding benefits no one. The cats suffer because of disease and physical injury; native wildlife suffers from predation and competition, and colonies can be a source of disease for animals and humans. Those concerned with the welfare of animals can improve the lives of the many native species that suffer from lack of food and shelter by protecting and improving the habitats they require [25]. 

Literature cited
[1] Serpell, S.A. 1988. The domestication of the cat. Pp. 151-158. In: D.C. Turner and P. Bateson (eds.) The Domestic Cat: The Biology of Its Behaviour. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge. 
[2] Pet Food Institute. 1982. Pet food information fact sheet. Pet Food Institute, Washington, D.C. 

[3] Nassar, R. and J. Mosier. 1991. Projections of pet populations from census demographic data. Journal of the American Veterinary Medicine Association 198: 1157-1159. 

[4] Coleman, J.S. and S.A. Temple. 1993. Rural residents' free-ranging domestic cats: a survey. Wildlife Society Bulletin 21: 381-390. 

[5] Boddicker, M.L. 1983. House Cats (feral). Pp. C25-C29. In: Prevention and Control of Wildlife Damage. Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, Nebraska. 

[6] Fitzgerald, B.M. 1988. Diet of domestic cats and their impact on prey populations. Pp.123-147. In: D.C. Turner and P. Bateson (eds.) See [1]. 

[7] Bradt, G.W. 1949. Farm cat as predator. Michigan Conservation 18(4):23-25. 

[8] Churcher, P.B. and J.H. Lawton. 1987. Predation by domestic cats in an English village. Journal of Zoology, London 212:439-455; Eberhard, T. 1954. Food habits of Pennsylvania house cats. Journal of Wildlife Management 18:284-286; Fitzgerald, B.M. 1988. See [6]. 

[9] Fitzgerald, B.M. 1988. See [6]; Davis, D.E. 1957. The use of food as a buffer in a predator-prey system. Journal of Mammalogy 38:466-472; Eberhard, T. 1954. See [8]; and Liberg, O. 1984. Food habits and prey impact by feral and house-based cats in a rural area of southern Sweden. Journal of Mammalogy 65:424-432. 

[10] Coleman, J.S. and S.A. Temple. 1996. On the Prowl. Wisconsin Natural Resources 20(6):4-8. 

[11] Anni Simpkins, Key West Navel Air Station, personal communication. 

[12] Humphrey, S.R. and D.B. Barbour. 1981. Status and habitat of three subspecies of Peromyscus polionotus in Florida. Journal of Mammalogy 62:840-844. 

[13] Gore, J.A. and T.L. Schaefer. 1993. Cats, condominiums and conservation of the Santa Rosa beach mouse. Abstracts of Papers Presented. Annual Meeting of the Society for Conservation, Tucson, Arizona, June, 1993. 

[14] George, W.G. 1974. Domestic cats as predators and factors in winter shortages of raptor prey. Wilson Bulletin 86:384-396. 

[15] Erlinge, W., G. Göransson, G. Högstedt, G. Jansson, O. Liberg, J. Loman, I.N. Nilsson, T. von Schantz and M. Sylvén. 1984. Can vertebrate predators regulate their prey? American Naturalist 123:125-133. 

[16] Jessup, D.A., K.C. Pettan, L.J. Lowenstine and N.C. Pedersen. 1993. Feline leukemia virus infection and renal spirochetosis in free-ranging cougar (Felis concolor). Journal of Zoo and Wildlife Medicine 24:73-79. 

[17] Roelke, M.E., D.J. Forester, E.R. Jacobson, G.V. Kollias, F.W. Scott, M.C. Barr, J.F. Evermann and E.C. Pirtel. 1993. Seroprevalence of infectious disease agents in free-ranging Florida panthers (Felis concolor coryi). Journal of Wildlife Diseases 29:36-49. 

[18] Warfield, M.S. and W.I. Gay. 1986. The cat as a research subject. Pp. 41-54. In: W.I. Gay (ed.) Health Benefits of Animal Research. Foundation for Biomedical Research, Washington, DC. 

[19] Liberg, O. and M. Sandell. 1988. Spatial organization and reproductive tactics in the domestic cat and other felids. Pp. 83-98. In: D.C. Turner and P. Bateson (eds.) See [1]; Natoli, E. and E. de Vito. 1988. The mating system of feral cats living in a group. Pp. 99-108. In: D.C. Turner and P. Bateson (eds.) See [1]. 

[20] Coleman, J.S. and S.A. Temple. 1993. See [4]. 

[21] Natoli, E. and E. de Vito. 1988. See [19]. 

[22] Adamec, R.E. 1976. The interaction of hunger and preying in the domestic cat (Felis catus): an adaptive hierarchy. Behavioral Biology 18:263-272. 

[23] Paton, D.C. 1991. Loss of wildlife to domestic cats. Pp. 64-69. In: C. Potter (ed.) Proceedings of a Workshop on the Impact of Cats on Native Wildlife. Endangered Species Unit, Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service, Sydney, Australia. 

[24] Dunn, E. 1991. Predation at feeders: close encounters of the fatal kind. Feeder-Watch News 4(1):1-2. 

[25] Bourne, R. (ed.). 1974. Gardening with Wildlife. The National Wildlife Federation. Washington, D.C. 190 pp.


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

nice work Lewis. Hopefully this might shed a little more light on the problem for those who may not GET IT!!!!


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

WTG Lewis...
That was a nice read man...


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

Feral cats or ***** cats...if they're wrecking my stuff and their owners won't keep them from doing it...I will take care of it and will sleep EASIER when I've got 'em.

If you like your cat....keep it in the house. Plain and simple.

GET IT????????????????????????


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Tough talk about taking out a cat? LOL

GET IT????????????????????????


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

Man Thresher I don't think 6 of us said anything about torturing anything.........come on man, just leave it go. Man just when you think it is done, you come and say stupid s#$% I know I said I will get rid of the problem, but never said I would torture anyone's cat.


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

Why do you guys feed the fire by replying to Thresher  
All he wants to do is make someone say something that will close this thread... PERIOD  
He has even called out the admin/mods and that has not worked. Name calling and more... Don't reply to him and we're good to go (so are the cats)...

I have a buddy who raises pheasant & quail that traps them using canned tuna which he says is the very best way to attract them to the traps then he will dispatch them with a 22 pistol... 

Onetime I was turkey hunting and had one coming in and I looked a little to my left and saw this HUGE cat stalking the hen sounds and closing in on my decoy so I ripped into that one and blew its head pretty much off... I think I saved some young turkey and also one gobbler that day


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## crankus_maximus (Apr 14, 2004)

Thresher said...



> you get 5 or 6 bloodthirsty Hillbillys after your behind
> 
> L M N O P you hang with Poachers, eh Kid?
> 
> ...


No names in there. No sir.


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## panfish (Apr 24, 2004)

That was a very good post by lewis that fully explains cats in a comprehensible manner. I would suggest putting atrkyhntr on your ignore list like many other members.


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## rockbass (Apr 16, 2004)

I am wondering where and why so many posts have been deleted??? If they are going to be deleting certain posts, then why not just delete the thread or lock it?


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## ShakeDown (Apr 5, 2004)

rockbass...Thresher deleted those himself, not any of us.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Hey Guys and Gals- In my opinion , there is no use in going on with this thead any longer... I say we put it to rest and move on to bigger things like Shake suggested, the Rabbit thread........  . I hope you all understand , if not , PM me .... Thanks....... CATKING.....


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