# What is being dumped into the Scioto?



## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

I went on a "scouting" mission yesterday in search of new smallie holes south of Columbus....Found some awesome habitat, or what was some awesome habitat....Seems like all the sediment choked runoff from the north gets deposited down south....And nearly all of the riffles are like 80% embedded in crap...That means no habitat for crayfish which means no food for smallmouth. I did see some gar spawning, and caught a few Saugeye, but no Smallies...Still a nice looking river. Anyway as I rounded a bend I got a strong wiff of rotten eggs...Then I saw where it was coming from. There is a bridge that has two huge pipes going across it, seems like the quarry is pumping water from one quarry to another....Only one of the pipes is completely busted....just dumping right into the Scioto. Anyone know why this water WREAKS like fireworks/rotten eggs? I thinking it might be high levels of sulfur or something? Anyway I can't imagine this is legal, I mean the whole bottom of the river below the pipes is coated in grey muck...really nasty and really depressing. Also wanted to ask about water quality south of Greenlawn. I know that during high discharge periods the CSO's dump crap from the Scioto and from the Olentangy, but what about at low flow during the summer? Is it safe to let my dog swim in/drink from (she has twice without any problems) the river?...thanks


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

Looks like you may want to email that question & picture to to someone in charge of the water.


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## FSHNERIE (Mar 5, 2005)

City of Columbus and the DNR...


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## dfoxfish (Apr 13, 2004)

people who live by, and fish the scioto river will disagree with me, but i wouldn't let my dog, much less my kids swim in this cess pool. i won't eat fish from it, or even put my boat in that water.  same with the olentangy. we used to call it the oldandingy.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Yeah Im going to send it to the ODNR/Dept. of water/EPA tomorrow..Just wanted to get an idea of what it was. As for the Scioto, I have "dry" waded downstream of Griggs for years...There is alot of freshwater sponge and black redhorse suckers in that strech, both are extremely good water quality indicators....Now south of Greenlawn looks a bit iffy, and I've heard the Olentangy is also bad due to the CSO's.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

Yes please let someone know about that busted pipe!


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## catfishhunter33 (Apr 6, 2004)

hhjhjhjhjhjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
!#


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Yes both the Scioto and Olantangy are poluted rivers. I not only won't eat the fish from either of these river, but I won't even fish them period. I can't believe how they let all this untreated waste be dumped into our rivers. And they wonder where all the diseases are coming from. It's coming from us letting our own waters be ran over with polution. No I wouldn't let your dog drink from the water or swim in it. You say your dog didn't get sick. Think of it this way. Do you get sick when you first get cancer? My guess is it would take time to notice a change, but I would stay out of those two rivers. And whatever you do, please DON'T eat the fish.


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## flounder (May 15, 2004)

I know a City of Columbus sewer employee. Provide some location details and I will forward to them.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

Probably violates the Federal Clean Air and Water Act. It's a broken pipe, not a measured amount going in. Good luck, keep us posted. Maybe I'll get some lawyers & make a small fortune....


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## ski (May 13, 2004)

call the EPA-Surface Water division. 644-2001. They are located in downtown Columbus
http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/general.html

ski


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Thanks guys, I'll make some calls tomorrow...I've called the EPA before and was quite please with there response time. Only problem I see is getting access to the pipe...It's going to be real hard to get to without the quarry's permission. While on the subject....I believe someone said that the city of Columbus has a giant pipe that dumps some sort of bi-product into one of the local abandoned quarry's...Is this true?


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## RWBlue (Feb 20, 2005)

acklac7, please PM me the information. I would like to send it to someone I know at that might be able to help.


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## KraZKeup (Mar 16, 2005)

this is the kind of crap that makes me mad. i've always been told that the olentangy and scioto were dirty and not to eat fish from there, so i haven't. but i never knew why they were dirty. i am a life member in the NAFC, and a contributor to wildlife forever, and although they have cleaned up so many bodies of water in the country, they have never done anything in ohio that i know of. so either they have bigger problems on their hands, or they don't see ohio as a big fishing state. i just wish our water was cleaner so there would be better fishing around here. and as acklac7 has brought to everybody's attention in this circumstance, some people don't even care cuz they don't realize that even though they may not fish, or some big business doesn't care cuz it saves them money, health issues affect them also from dirty water.
now i feel a little better after venting, but i'm still mad because our water is dirty and something needs to be done about it. if anybody knows anything that an average citizen can do to help, let me know, i'll sign up.

Chris


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## BigChessie (Mar 12, 2005)

The city gets away with way to much stuff when it comes to dumping in the Scioto. There are several places I hunt on the the river that you can actually see the water changing colors at a discharge pipe from one of the City plants. I could also show you an area that we call "Condom City and Tampon town" you can look in any direction at any given time and count a hundred of these items in the water and all over the banks. I just spoke with a farmer the other day that can not plant in his field because the EPA told him the City had a "Overflow of incenirator (splling) ash" into one of his fields. This is the stuff left over from the raw sewage of Columbus. It is sad that no one seems to worry or care what it does to the wildlife or fish.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

BigChessie said:


> The city gets away with way to much stuff when it comes to dumping in the Scioto. There are several places I hunt on the the river that you can actually see the water changing colors at a discharge pipe from one of the City plants. I could also show you an area that we call "Condom City and Tampon town" you can look in any direction at any given time and count a hundred of these items in the water and all over the banks. I just spoke with a farmer the other day that can not plant in his field because the EPA told him the City had a "Overflow of incenirator (splling) ash" into one of his fields. This is the stuff left over from the raw sewage of Columbus. It is sad that no one seems to worry or care what it does to the wildlife or fish.


First I feel for that farmer. Second thats just gross. You make me not want to even drive over the river now lol. But no, that is a really sick story. I always knew that the Scioto was poluted, but never knew it was this bad. This is just sad. Just think of what our kids are going to have to deal with from this river when they are our age.


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## BigChessie (Mar 12, 2005)

Rod&Reel said:


> First I feel for that farmer. Second thats just gross. You make me not want to even drive over the river now lol. But no, that is a really sick story. I always knew that the Scioto was poluted, but never knew it was this bad. This is just sad. Just think of what our kids are going to have to deal with from this river when they are our age.



I hate to admit it but......the sickest part of all of this is.....We STILL hunt it! My boy used to love to hang out of the boat and splash the water when we would be out scouting. Only had to take him by what we call "Chit" creek and see all the pretty colors just once to solve that problem.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

BigChessie said:


> I hate to admit it but......the sickest part of all of this is.....We STILL hunt it! My boy used to love to hang out of the boat and splash the water when we would be out scouting. Only had to take him by what we call "Chit" creek and see all the pretty colors just once to solve that problem.


Lets just hope he doesn't start glowing bright green on us.


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## bones (Dec 31, 2004)

if my memory serves me right this happened a few years back were a smaller city was dumping sewage and drainage into the scioto they got find and had to remove the pipes.i can not remember what city it was but maybe someone does you could see what action was taken.this might help you out or not.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

On the news...mercury pollution. They are saying how serious mercury is, we've had a few schools evacuate due to some kids dropping an old mercury thermometer. 
Then, they are saying the power plants ( burning of coal I think) is spewing out mercury into the air, winds up in our water (we drink) and in the fish, etc. State laws allow it in a fashion so their powerplants don't have to comply as the air carries it to another state. Other states can't do anything because it's not in their jurisdiction. 
Feds don't want to do anything because "_it will cost you money"_. So, to save on our utilities, they'll let us die.  
I'd say more, but then it's not allowed because it's political.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

The location is about a half mile north of the 270 bridge on the Scioto....Here is a pic....BTW I believe American Aggregates owns this property


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

That is almost certainly not legal. It is an unregulated discharge into a navigable waterway and violates section 404 (I think) of the US Clean Water Act .

That being said, pursue this through OEPA surface water. USEPA region 5 surface water, and call the company that owns the pipeline. Ask to speak to the person in charge of permitting/environmental health and safety. Mention to that person that they appear to have an unregulated release underway and that the EPAs have been notified.

They'll go fix that sucker quick or explain to you what is going on.

Here are some guys to call for OEPA DSW enforcement: 

Mark Mann (614) 644-2023
Chris Bowman (614) 644-2134


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

"The city gets away with way to much stuff when it comes to dumping in the Scioto"

Yes they do get away with allot....Because there is not an easy fix...In NO way am I defending them but it would cost MILLIONS to correct the sewage problems. I believe back in the early 1900's the sewers were designed to carry both storm runoff and raw sewage in one pipe. There is a baffle in the middle and the storm water is on one side, raw sewage is on the other. Typically the raw sewage gets routed to the processing plants and storm water gets dumped into the river. However during storm events the storm water side gets so high that it spills over the baffle into the raw sewage, and then all that crap gets dumped into the river via CSO's (combined sewage overflows). This is the problem with the lower Scioto and Olentangy. To my knowledge there are 0 CSO's north of "Water works" on the Scioto. There was a problem with Dublin dumping sewage up near O'shay back in the 90's but they got fined a number of times and eventaully corrected the problem...

As it stands I have good reason to believe the Scioto from Oshay to the Water works is in excellent condition and is environmentally sound. I've accidentally snagged numerous black red horse suckers below Griggs. A buddy of mine from the EPA regards these fish as a "swim indicators"..That is if they are present it is ok to swim, since they cannot tolerate nasty environments...The only other problem with the northern Scioto is the Little Scioto...which I have heard is a very nasty section, but there are/have been efforts made to restore this section of the river.

Anyway back to why it is so difficult to fix the sewage problem. As I understand it the only way to fix the sewage problem is to dig up all of the existing sewer lines and put in a new sewer system. That means digging up virtually all of Campus, downtown, wherever the baffle system is in place, and put in a new sewer system...This is going to cost A. MAJOR MONEY and B. A BIG HEADACHE for alot of people. Now you and I would gladly pay the money/ endure the traffic headaches in order to get the problem fixed...The sad thing is most people would be up in arms if the project ever went through, most would say "to hell with the river...I got to get to work and I got bills to pay"



BTW I made the call about an hour ago and left a message...My guess is that it will be fixed by the end of the week.


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## jsalkas (Feb 18, 2005)

Even worse, these rivers have a lot of potential. If you ever check out the scenic stretch of the Olentangy, you'll be blown away. One of the pretties/most unique rivers I've ever fished.

You guys got my blood pressure up.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

As Captain Picard would say " Make it so!"


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

YES please NOONE fish the SCIOTO espically for Cats. Please tell everyone you know, make flyers, buy radio time, but please, please, please DO NOT FISH the SCIOTO for Cats.  

On a more serious note, please let us know what they have to say about this. That picture speaks for itsself. If I have to I will copy it & send it in to whomever as well., maybe we all can, that might force their hand into having this fixed. Also maybe let American Agg know as well, I am sure they would rather it not be busted, as its causing them problems too.


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## Muskeye (Apr 12, 2004)

Alright, I'm taking a chance here so please don't flame my response. I don't post much but I do enjoy visiting the site. I work for the City of Columbus. Our office is the control authority of industrial discharges to the City's sanitary and storm sewers. You, my fellow fishermen (and women) are the front line in reporting any illegal discharges.

Aklac7, thanks for bringing this to our attention. Some basic info. Our office issues industrial wastewater discharge permits as a control mechanism to industries discharging to our combined and sanitary sewers with both sources flowing to 1 of 2 sewer treatment plants (Jackson Pike and Southerly). OEPA issues permits to industries discharging to our storm sewers that flow directly to our waterways. Discharges are regulated by federal,state, and local regulations. Our treatment plants (as most municipal plants) use biological treatment (microscopic bugs) to clean our community's wastewater before discharge to the Scioto River. This treatment ecosystem can easily be upset by the presence of untreated industrial wastewater. That's where our office comes in. Under the Clean Water Act, industries are required to pretreat their wastewater if their discharge meets certain criteria that has been determined to be incompatible with our treatment plants. If you fishermen become aware of a suspicious or illegal discharge to our sanitary/storm/river system, call us @ 645-5876 or contact the OEPA.

Aklac7, a crew was sent out today to assess the situation. The discharge that you observed is infiltrating water being pumped from the active quarry on the west side of the river to another quarry on the east side of the river. Why? The quarry operation has a discharge permit issued from the OEPA that only allows them to discharge to the river from one outfall location (east side of river). The facility indicates the rotten egg smell is possibly from infiltration of well water being pumped. Is that the source of the odor? We don't know yet. A report of our findings are being forwarded to the OEPA. I do know that most direct discharge permits require sampling analysis through the life of the permit. The facility is aware of the breach in the pipe and are presently probably in violation of their permit. Let's have OEPA evaluate the situation and move on from there. I personally know some of the investigators at OEPA and they take their jobs very seriously (I do too) although they are spread pretty thin.

Definition of CSOs: In all cities across the country, combined sewers exist. This was considered a sound engineering practice years ago but is slowly being remediated. These sewers carry both sanitary and storm flows and are affected by heavy rain events. When the combined lines swell, flow reaches the top of a relief wall which then flows to an empty line that is plumbed directly to the river. Overflow relief structures were designed to avoid basement backups and manholes overflowing. This diluted sanitary overflow is monitored and reported to the OEPA. Our overflow locations to the river are all posted with appropriate warnings. As with all cities, Columbus is slowly replacing these combined sewers with separate storm and sanitary lines. Would I eat anything out of the river below these points. No and you shouldn't either. Does Columbus care? You betcha. It cost the City in fines from the OEPA. If you read the newspaper you're aware that the City is currently under a consent order with OEPA requiring them to meet certain milestone activities. 
I know it seems like a slow cleanup process, but some of you seasoned fishermen may remember years past when the Scioto was an open cesspool. It can only improve from here.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

WOW, what a great response. I would like to say "THANKS" for getting on this so quick. You sounds like an assett & us fishermen need people like yourself on the job.


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## FSHNERIE (Mar 5, 2005)

Lets all hope this get's taken care of Now.....Thanks MUSKEYE


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

First off..Thank's a million for everything Muskeye, I know you, as well as many other people at the EPA take your job seriously and I really appreciate the work you guys do. 

Also wanted to mention that I did notice the east side discharge pipe. It is about 1/4 of a mile before the bridge. It is about 30 ft off the ground and is spewing out water. Now I saw that pipe and just figured it was another "sanctioned" quarry discharge pipe. (I've come across a few of them on my scouting missions on the Scioto) There wasn't any odor present nor was there a significant amount of debris in the river...Now when I got to the bridge it WREAKED and there seemed to be alot of sediment of some sort being deposited into the river...that is what drew some concern. I've gotten a wiff of well water before, but this smelled more like high concentrations of sulfur or something...Maybe it was just "stale" well water or something?...anyway a cracked pipe and a bad smell set off an alarm....I would be very interested to see what the EPA has to say.

" some of you seasoned fishermen may remember years past when the Scioto was an open cesspool. It can only improve from here"

If anyone has "The Fishes of Ohio" handy they can post the direct quote, but I believe Trautman said that there used to be a 1 or 2 mile "dead zone" south of greenlawn dam. In this dead zone nothing could survive due to the lack of oxygen and high levels of pollution...The whole stretch of river was dead...But it has since been fixed and look at it now...The same is true for the area below O'shay, although I don't think that incident was as drastic...but look what it took to fix it...Anyone remember when Dublin rd was closed for like 2 years b/c of the Dublin sewer project? Like Muskeye said, it's a slow cleanup process. And there just isn't an easy fix...However I would like to see some more publicity though...Maybe I should start reading the paper more often ....thanks again Muskeye


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

"You sounds like an assett & us fishermen need people like yourself on the job"....H20 Mellon it seems as if most people involved in this line of work are very adamant about there job. Right before the winter flood I noticed that a feeder creek wreaked of diesel fuel...or something similar...I gave the EPA a call and I got a call back within 2 hours, from a guy by the name of Wes Drake I believe. He was already down at the river trying to find the exact location of the creek...In all honesty I didn't think I'd get a call back, let alone someone investigating the creek 2 hours later...I was very impressed. 
Also about 2 weeks ago I noticed that a sewer line had ruptured along the Scioto up near Griggs and was spewing raw sewage into the river. I asked a another guy (who was working on his boat, probably the owner of one of the houses that sat on the river) if that was sewage...He said he wasn't sure and that he had just noticed it moments before. Well as soon as I got home I called the sewage emergency number (its in the white pages w/ all the other Government listings). The operator told me that they had received a complaint about 20 minutes before and already had a crew at the site resolving the problem...However they were having trouble finding the exact location of the spill..I gave her the address and sure enough a day or two later it was fixed. My guess is it was fixed that night...All in all it seems like we have good people watching over the environment...At least in the City of Columbus.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

thanks for watching out for my beloved scioto


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

your welcome flathunter...But there's really no need to thank me...as Im just watching out for what I too consider my beloved river.


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## medic1201 (Jun 7, 2005)

Wanted to say hi to everyone, I've enjoyed this site for a while so it was about time to join. I'm glad our city is making an effort to clean things up, and that they take action so quickly. But I found a nice site (from the city) telling exactally where they are dumping sewage into our streams and rivers, and hopefully it will be a good reference for y'all on where and where not to fish--unless you like 'em with three eyes. Check out the link below.

http://www.gis.columbus.gov/ssocso/


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

Welcome aboard medic1201


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## saugeyeslayer (Jul 6, 2004)

i hate to bring another more personal issue upon this thread but, i have been fishing the alum creek (creek itself) in bexley and the surrounding area for about 5 years. im only 14 and i hope to adress similar issues that you avid scioto fisherman do to your stream. in the berwick area of columbus right where the communtiy ends along Rt.33 there is a sewage hole pipe lets say its big enough to drive a midsized sedan through. and from what it seems, it is connected to the community of berwick and thats where the toxins are released from(i think) i have several photos on my picture phone that will disturb all of you. now think this creek has i think 5 or so plotted on that map that Muskeye posted under a link here http://www.gis.columbus.gov/ssocso/ 
but what im trying to say is, just about 100yds downstream of the pipe is a hole that was so pristine any fish cachable in the scioto was there saugeye,cats,crappie,whitebass(minutare galena)smallies,largemouth,gar. now only thing there is stunted green sunfish and carp. the rocks downstream of this pipe are coated in i think a sulfur based mineral/algea (bad kind) and when i crossed the riffles to get to my hole i almost hopped out.the water was as hot as a bathtub and steaming. the discharge from this pipe is milky white and smells like eggs. every step i took, methane bubbles came up and i gagged several times. this pipe was put in about 2 years ago and scince then. i havent caught a single fish outta there. this place was super special to me and now its gone. somthing needs to be done about this pollution of ohios once beautiful waterways.
Casey


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## Muskeye (Apr 12, 2004)

Saugeyeslayer,

Please provide more detailed info on location and accessible route or call 645-5876 or 645-0358.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Sorry guys, but I couldn't just let this thread die off. I still want to know whats being done about the issues in this thread. Has the pipe been fixed yet, or has anybody been back there to check?


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Thanks for reminding me Rod&Reel..I was going to make ask an update question....but forgot...Muskeye any news?


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

acklac7 said:


> Thanks for reminding me Rod&Reel..I was going to make ask an update question....but forgot...Muskeye any news?


Anytime Ack. I just don't like seeing things like this. I have two kids that have to deal with the problems we create today. I just want to know that they are trying to improve the water ways and not just letting them go.


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## BottomBouncer (Jan 20, 2005)

What about the most known nasty mess of all............Greenlawn??? For christ sakes people are down there fishing in over flow toilet and sewer waters everyday. Talk about a stink, sometimes it's so bad I get in the car and go somewhere else.............I've fished there one time this year.......used to fish there all the time. 

All these situations are disgusting.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

BottomBouncer said:


> What about the most known nasty mess of all............Greenlawn??? For christ sakes people are down there fishing in over flow toilet and sewer waters everyday. Talk about a stink, sometimes it's so bad I get in the car and go somewhere else.............I've fished there one time this year.......used to fish there all the time.
> 
> All these situations are disgusting.


To be honest with you, I can't believe people still fish Greenlawn knowing that it is poluted like that. And for anybody that doesn't know it is poluted, get out of your cave every now and then and you will learn something. If I had a boat, I wouldn't even allow it to be set in those waters. I would be affraid I would pick something up on my boat and spread it to other water that I would put my boat in. Greenlawn is only about 4-5 minutes from my house and I would rather travel over a hour to fish someplace else. I also don't fish it because like the boat issue, I don't want polution on my fishing line. I have to touch that.


P.S. I wouldn't say Greenlawn is the nastiest, it is just the most well known. I would say the Olentangy is the weirst poluted spot.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I know people who swim in the scioto here at chillicothe all the time..I am sure all that pollution in Columbus finds it way down here in no time at all..I think they are taking a big risk.


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## CarpFreak5328 (Aug 16, 2004)

The River doesnt seem very poluted north of columbus, and im not so sure that suckers are a indicator of clean water. I have a small creek behind my house that I fish in and I catch suckers out of, there is a sewage pipe right next to where I fish that always has raw sewage comming out of it. I dont catch alot but there there.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Not all suckers are good W.Q. indicators....However the black redhorse is. Golden redhorses (which look almost the same as the black) can be found almost anywhere...they are very tolerant of silt and pollution...However the black redhorse is very intolerant of the two.....Don't ask me who did the reasearch..cause I don't know...lol...But I've talked to a number of fisheries biologists...and they all agree...Black redhorse = really good water.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Just a friendly Bump to help keep this thread going.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Glad to see it bumped....Anyone been down that way on the Scioto?..I've been meaning to get down there but it isn't easy to get to..The problem should be fixed by now...I'll make some calls Monday and get some more info.


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## wallihunter (Apr 15, 2004)

i would like to know how you got permission to trespass on private property.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

wallihunter said:


> i would like to know how you got permission to trespass on private property.


How do you figure he was on private property? And even if he did trespass, whats more important here? Trespassing or poluting? So if he was trespassing, I say thank you. Because if it not for you, we may have never had this issue brought to our attention.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

wallihunter said:


> i would like to know how you got permission to trespass on private property.


I could get smart right now...but I'm not the type.

In my opinion I was not necessarily trespassing, however it there is a good chance that I was on someone else's land. My guess is that the Quarry own's the land on both sides of the river....If so they technically "own" the River and all of the bankline(s)...That is the law in Ohio, I personally detest it....My belief (which is similar to the private property laws of numerous other states) is that you can own up to X feet away from the River/Waterway...But the River, along with X feet of the bank is deemed public property.

Now back to the original question: Where did I get permission to trespass.

This may sound like I'm trying ot misconstrue the law in order to violate someones rights...But this is just how I feel.

Below is the "Criminal Trespass" statue from the Ohio Revised Code:


(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following: 

(1) *Knowingly* enter or remain on the land or premises of another; 

(2) *Knowingly* enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard; 

(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, *as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access; * 
(4) Being on the land or premises of another, *negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either. * 
(B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency. 

(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such authorization was secured by deception. 

(D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal trespass, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. 

(E) As used in this section, "land or premises" includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another, and any separate enclosure or room, or portion thereof. 

I got out of my car, walked down to the river, and began to walk up the stream..... Not once was I given "actual communication", nor did I come across any fencing or any other enclosure.....Furthermore there where NO signs indicating the land was private...So how is one supposed to know that he/she is trespassing? I don't want to spark a political debate but my view is simple: America is the land of the free....Since when are we supposed to automatically assume that ALL land is private? (Especially when there is no clear property boundary...such as someone's front yard)....Maybe that's what section 4-B was getting at...but Im no lawyer....There's got to be someone on this site who can elaborate on Ohio's trespassing laws.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

acklac7 said:


> My belief (which is similar to the private property laws of numerous other states) is that you can own up to X feet away from the River/Waterway...But the River, along with X feet of the bank is deemed public property.


I also feel the same way here. I personnally think it should be that whatever the high waterline (the marks on the trees that shows where the river, creek, stream reaches in flood stage) reaches is where it should be public property. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mean that if the city, town, village, ect. ect. floods that the whole area is public. We are all fisherman here and know what lines I am talking about.


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## wallihunter (Apr 15, 2004)

the only reason i asked is their was red markers an no trespassing signs an a fence you walk through that was cutt down.as far as laws go call and talk to Brad Kiger down at dnr.thanks to sunday hunting the laws have changed.as far as the rock quarry goes i would rather have them dump water that smells like sulfer then the sewage the city dumps from their overflow that your fishing and wading in.sorry for venting here .but i have land on the river an people in this city think they can go an do anything they want.signs and fences mean nothing.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

wallihunter said:


> the only reason i asked is their was red markers an no trespassing signs an a fence you walk through that was cutt down.as far as laws go call and talk to Brad Kiger down at dnr.thanks to sunday hunting the laws have changed.as far as the rock quarry goes i would rather have them dump water that smells like sulfer then the sewage the city dumps from their overflow that your fishing and wading in.sorry for venting here .but i have land on the river an people in this city think they can go an do anything they want.signs and fences mean nothing.


Personnally I don't see a problem with venting here as long as it isn't aimed at anybody, which doesn't seem to be the issue here. I wouldn't like it either if people kept walking on my property if I lived on the river. I also don't fish or wade it either, but know all to well what you are talking about. I see people fishing and wading that river all the time. Pretty gross if you ask me. Now north of Columbus I would fish and wade, but thats only because the water is alot cleaner up there.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

private property on rivers and streams in ohio work like this, if they own both sides of the river then they own all the land, the bank and even the ground under the river. But the state still owns the water so you can take a boat up it. Just like in a farm pond. You own the land but by law the state owns the water in your pond and all of the fish in it. It even works the same way with a private hatchery. So if i could get to your farm pond without stepping foot on your land i could by law fish in your pond. It is stupid but true.


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## wallihunter (Apr 15, 2004)

thanks for under standing i don't want to cause proplems .i have met a few people on this site and enjoy reading the information .it's just somethings people do messes it up for everyone who has permission.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

rustyfish said:


> private property on rivers and streams in ohio work like this, if they own both sides of the river then they own all the land, the bank and even the ground under the river. But the state still owns the water so you can take a boat up it. Just like in a farm pond. You own the land but by law the state owns the water in your pond and all of the fish in it. It even works the same way with a private hatchery. So if i could get to your farm pond without stepping foot on your land i could by law fish in your pond. It is stupid but true.


Now thats funny. I wish I had a nice size pond. It would be catch and release only though. Stock it with bass, trout, crappie, and whatever else that could servive and I like fishing for. I am guessing I would need something to eat the weeds, so I would get suckers for that.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

wallihunter said:


> the only reason i asked is their was red markers an no trespassing signs an a fence you walk through that was cutt down..


Are you referring to the Section of the Scioto where I was at? or your own property...As I said previously....I didn't see ANYTHING that indicated I was on Private property (there is the fence right by 270...but I thought that was property of the City of Columbus...Since it wasn't noted with "no trespassing"...still not an adequate defense though).....Didn't mean to jump on you wallihunter  ....But you accused me of trespassing...And I don't believe I was guilty of that charge...Welcome to the site.


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## wallihunter (Apr 15, 2004)

Yes that section, the state or the city does not own. all that property north and south is private. the state posted no trespassing but someone thought it was more important to cut down the signs and put a hole in the fence. if fishing in that septic tank is that important to destroy property then fish away. catch all the condoms and tampons you wish.


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I believe you can float anywhere on the scioto and be ok as long as you stay in your boat.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

rustyfish,better check your laws  
if i caught you on my private pond,fishing for my fish,without permission,you could find yourself in a very undesirable position   
private ponds are just that..................PRIVATE.
the state does NOT own the water or the fish in them.the only time the state has any kind of authority is if they build the pond and/or stock the fish.then the landowner is obligated,by agreement with the state,to allow fishing by the public,if permission is asked.

jack,
yes,you can flat the scioto,as it's a state owned navigable stream waterway.
and yiou can portage around obstacles when needed.


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## dfoxfish (Apr 13, 2004)

*amen!*


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## medic1201 (Jun 7, 2005)

> the only reason i asked is their was red markers an no trespassing signs an a fence you walk through that was cutt down.as far as laws go call and talk to Brad Kiger down at dnr.thanks to sunday hunting the laws have changed.as far as the rock quarry goes i would rather have them dump water that smells like sulfer then the sewage the city dumps from their overflow that your fishing and wading in.sorry for venting here .but i have land on the river an people in this city think they can go an do anything they want.signs and fences mean nothing.


I'm sorry that you have so many problems with others not respecting your property rights -- I'm sure you worked hard for the land that you own, and I think most members here respect that.

I agree it is a major enviromental issue for the city to dump sewage into our rivers, but as we found out earlier on this post the city is trying to fix our past mistakes.

I am thankful though, that someone happened upon the dumping. Imagine all the other property owners downstream that in addition to our sewage are also receving illegally/accidentally discharged water from a quarry operation that most likely contains diesel fuel, hydraulic fluids and other chemicals from the operation, as well as heavy metals like lead and arsenic that may have been dug up by the operation. Not even to mention all the towns to the south of Columbus drawing thier drinking water from the river.

Imagine the potential environmental issues if someone had not discovered this and it had gone unchecked for years. It could have even threatened your property value.

I would personally not be too upset if someone accidentally on my property dicovered something that for all we know could be harmless, or could threaten a lot of people.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Misfit, Then tell me why you cant sell the fish in your pond. Ah, its because they dont be long to you they belong to the state which means they are public property. Thus, if i could get to your pond without stepping on your land i could fish in the pond because it is not your water or your fish. You only own the land around it and the land under it. According to my fish management class at hocking college this is how it works. The state can come and take every single fish they want even a private hatchery that has purchased the fish and they can do it for any reason they want. I dont care if you think im wrong or not but you dont own the fish in your pond or the water.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

rusty,i'm not gonna argue the point.you have a lot to learn,and eventually will.i'll finish with this.
the state cannot just come on my property and take my fish that i legally obtained,for just any reason they pleased.at least they would be doing it illegally,if they did.
i CAN sell fish from my hypothetical pond,if i have a license.i.e. private licensed breeder.i can also sell certain fish for food,with an auquaculture license.
i can also prohibit you from fishing my pond in any fashion,if i stocked it without state assistance,in which case i would have to make an agreement with the state to allow you to fish it IF,and only IF you asked permission.


> According to my fish management class at hocking college this is how it works


this is not meant in a derogatory manner,but maybe that class is missing something or you're misunderstanding something.
i'm not gonna search all the trespassing or fish and game laws,so maybe you can do that,and hopefully prove that i'm wrong


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Well if I lived if the country and I caught somebody in my pond, I would shoot them and not care how they got there. Just would know they wouldn't come back.


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## catfishhunter001 (May 31, 2004)

If thats the case then why do you not need a license to fish a private pond but if your on private property and fishing anything else from a stream to a river you must have a license ??????


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

I think the key to whether or not you have access to a body of water is whether the flow is considered a navigable stream. In the case of one's own farm pond they are not linking it to a navigable stream.

That is consistent with Catfishhunter001's point about requiring a fishing license. It is not required in a farm pond because it is not a body of water governed by the state.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

I read in another post that the pipe was fixed. Anybody know if this is true?


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

I believe the other post was about a differnt pipe....However if that one got fixed im betting there fixing all of them.....Been busy this week....And im not really sure who to call at the EPA.....I was thinking about going down and checking it myself however I would be knowningly trespassing and I'm sure the quarry is not real fond of visitors right now....


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

acklac7 said:


> I believe the other post was about a differnt pipe....However if that one got fixed im betting there fixing all of them.....Been busy this week....And im not really sure who to call at the EPA.....I was thinking about going down and checking it myself however I would be knowningly trespassing and I'm sure the quarry is not real fond of visitors right now....


If your going to check, I would suggest checking as soon as it starts getting dark so you have the cover of night to help you.


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## Muskeye (Apr 12, 2004)

First, I apologize for my lack of a response to this thread. Shortly after my initial post, a very strict crackdown of internet use, using City owned computers, was enforced. Maybe some of you caught the news expose report of improper internet use by City employees; heads rolled. With some exceptions, chatrooms and bulletin board websites (and other obvious sites) are now off limits. I'm currently in the process of trying to obtain permission to continue to visit this site as a useful tool for our office ("What is being dumped in the Scioto").

Update: On June 8th, a representative from OEPA visited the quarry. By the following week, the pipe had been repaired, confirmed by OEPA, and visually confirmed by our office. 

A few additional facts: The receiving quarry on the east side of the river is used as a settling basin to control sediment before discharging to the Scioto. AKLAC, that's what you were seeing downstream of the pipe rupture, quarry sediment. Admittedly, I am not that familiar with quarry operations but was informed that the "rotten egg smell" is from naturally occuring hydrogen sulfide pockets. AKLAC, also sorry I never answered your pm. 

One other note, I must keep my posts devoid of personal opinions if our office receives approval to officially utilize this site for future reporting of accidental/illegal discharges and post only the facts. Now if I happen to venture into a few of the other non-related fishing topics, hey I'm a fisherman, I can [email protected]#*! with the best of them.


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

I know the pipe is fixed, but I still feel that our waterways being polluted is a very serious issue and thats why I jumped this thread back to the front so it wouldn't be lost in the many old threads we have. Personnally I feel this thread should be a sticky, but thats the mods of this sites call, not mine. This thread even has a great title. Only title that would be better is "Whats being dumped in our waterways".


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## TexasPete (Apr 26, 2005)

Very true... If we want to continue pulling our smallies out of there, we gotta be concerned.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Thanks Muskeye.... I figured I would hear back from you...Just a matter of time.

Glad to see things are fixed...And moreover im glad everyone that comes across this post realizes that YOU can make a difference...Just one person and one call is sometimes all it takes.....Sadly many people will think it is not there job to take action and/or nothing will happen even if they do....Hopefully everyone sees this isn't always true.....Now getting the City of Columbus to repair the sewer system and clean up the Olentangy and lower Scioto?.....Thats going to take a few (thousand) complaints before any serious action is "considered"...Someone mentioned calling the Mayor/City council and complaining...That is a great start....In fact im going to email the Mayor Coleman tomorrow....Wonder what would happen if he received 100 different emails within the next week regarding the City of Columbus dumping sewage into the Scioto....

Another thing everyone can do...with little effort...is spread the word about what is going on....You'd be suprised how many people have little or no clue about CSO's...Start informing people about what is going on....and what can be done to stop it....(City of Columbus overhauling it's sewage system....which means tax dollars and headaches) Also explain (as Muskeye noted) the great strides that have been made already....Such as the CSO's below O'shay being removed and the 1/2 mile "dead zone" south of Greenlawn being restored....

AND PLEASE don't refer to the entire Scioto as a "open sewer" or anything else along those lines...I along with many others religiously fish the Upper Scioto...Which I define as anywhere north of the Water works lowhead dam...And let me tell you...that is one healthy River.....I don't think twice about "dry" wading it or letting my dog drink the water...I spent all last summer collecting habitat,macroinvertebrate and fish samples throughout the midwest...I sampled dozens of rivers/streams and trust me....The Upper Scioto is in really good condition...Now the Mid/Lower Scioto (south of the confluence) is a completely different story...I dream of a day when I can go dry wade south of Greenlawn and reminiscence about the times when the City of Columbus actually dumped sewage into the river...It's a long way off but it eventually that day will come...thanks everyone


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Muskeye, I was wondering if you could possibly provide us with a link/post regarding the "milestone activities" that the C.O.C has to comply with?...And what would have to take place (infrastructure wise) in order to achieve these goals? Also would it be feasible to put such activities/goals on the ballot as a way to speed up the process?....I can think of one hell of a add campaign promoting "Issue 4...Cleaning up or Rivers and Streams"......I can see it now...Have a add run that shows someone flushing the toilet...Then have a cam follow the "waste" down through the sewer and into the river...Then have the camera zoom out to show kids,fisherman,dogs,Fish,Beavers...ETC... all in the river with it.....I have a feeling that would get alot of people's attention. 

(Please note that Mayor Coleman did run a brief add campaign a few years back about dumping toxins into the river via the storm drains...I only saw it once or twice but at least he tried)


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Bump. Sorry, but I had to. Back at the top.


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## CPTN.CROWN (Apr 11, 2004)

Amen to that brother!!! The scioto is a paradise. Ive never caught a eye that has what looks like warts on it like erie, but we eat erie eyes. But remember let people keep thinking that, that is what's kept her good all these years


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Just can't seem to let this thread die.


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## littleking (Jun 25, 2005)

why not? it hasnt been posted in since the 18th aside from your bumps


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

You don't the pollution problem with the Scioto a important issue??


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## winkstyle (Jun 9, 2004)

there is another pipe that spills into a hole ashort walk from that bridge and then flows into the river i cought five flatties in there a couple months ago and some nice channels. dont let the security guys catch you back there.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

I don't blame R&R for not letting this post die....How many new members do we get a month?...How many new members haven't read this post?.....I agree it would be nice for this post to be a sticky on the top of the forum..But better yet how about creating a new forum ...."Protecting Ohio's Waterways".....For posts specifically aimed at the combating the degradation of Ohio's waterways..be it pollution, invasive species,etc.....I mean why not?..Guess it's up to the mods


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## tenja (Aug 25, 2005)

As a reply to help acklac, here is a link to a MAJOR project to fight the discharges into the Scioto River from Southerly WWTP. http://utilities.ci.columbus.oh.us/sewers_drains/bwari.htm

The project will be completed in 2008.


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## fishingredhawk (Apr 14, 2004)

> Well if I lived if the country and I caught somebody in my pond, I would shoot them and not care how they got there. Just would know they wouldn't come back.


Then you would go to state prison for the rest of your life. Have fun.


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## Muskeye (Apr 12, 2004)

Yes, the site that Tenja referenced is very informative and does have access to the CSO and SSO Consent Orders listed under "sewer overflows". Also view "FOG grease management" for what you as an individual can do to cut down on SSO overflows.


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