# Don't shoot the little bucks , Please !!!!!



## FloridaFishTransplant

I live in the SE part of the state , Noble,Morgan,Guernsey county area's. On my way home today I stopped by the check station in Reinersville to see what kind of bucks had been checked in and was totally disgusted with what I saw and it is becoming all to common. As I was looking at this years pics 3 guys came in and announced they had 3 bucks to check in so of course my interest was peaked and wondered outside with them to check them out and hear in the back of the truck were 3 of the smallest bucks I had ever seen. 1 was a 6 point that could almost fit into my hand , a 6" spike with a very small body and a basket 8 that was the same size as the 6. What gets me is that these guys were from out of town which is great , come here spend your money have a good time , enjoy the woods and what we have to offer. But the 3 guys talked about letting multiple does go by for 2 days but wanted a buck. We have a very good deer population down here but if we continue to take inmature bucks we will not get any slunngers. They were hunting for racks versus meat which is cool , but at least make the rack worth talking about or take a doe and aet well. Sorry here was my rant take it for what it is worth .


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## swantucky

I have not shot a small buck in years but I also believe that as long as someone is hunting within the law it is their choice as to what they fill their tag with. I myself have not shot a buck in almost three years because I also pass the small ones, I can fill the freezer with does. My son on the other hand has free reign to kill whatever he wants, i would never expect him to hold out for the type of buck i am looking for.

In fact taking my son out bowhunting for the first time this year has me really thinking twice about this antler craze that has been building for 10-15 years. My son has not said anything directly about it but he has heard the talk between my buddies and I for years about "big bucks" and i just get the feeling that he is starting to think he would be a "substandard" hunter if he kills a small buck. To me that is sad. If he says anything directly about the "worthiness" of killing a smaller buck I will kill the next buck i see to show him hunting is about far more than antlers. There is my rant


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## Bassnpro1

With my limited hunting opportunties, I need to take the first deer that comes by. I would prefer to harvest a doe over a basket rack, but I really want some venison and unlike others that have good properties to hunt, a doe is no guarantee where I hunt. So for me the first thing that walks by is getting put down. One of these days I will be able to have the luxury of knowing I can take a doe and then I can hold out for a bigger deer. Any deer taken with a bow is a trophy in my books.


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## swantucky

Bassnpro1 said:


> With my limited hunting opportunties, I need to take the first deer that comes by. I would prefer to harvest a doe over a basket rack, but I really want some venison and unlike others that have good properties to hunt, a doe is no guarantee where I hunt. So for me the first thing that walks by is getting put down. One of these days I will be able to have the luxury of knowing I can take a doe and then I can hold out for a bigger deer. Any deer taken with a bow is a trophy in my books.


Well said.


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## Darron

I passed on a small 110" 8 point tonight. Could have shot the thing 10x over. My buddy and I have passed on over a dozen bucks this year, all less than 120". My buddy was fortunate enough to take a 170" deer after patiently waiting. I on the other hand am still looking for my buck. I would much rather shoot a doe than shoot a small buck. Attached is a pic of my buddies buck taken on Nov 4. This is what happens when you let them walk and grow up!


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## FloridaFishTransplant

Guys , I understand greatly what your are saying and if opportunity presents itself for a specific reason ie : meat in the frezzer , health ,family, first kill etc. The thing is that these fellows stated the were hunting horns and had passed on multiple does. I personally hunt mostly for meat which means I usually take a fair amount of does (3.5) last year , the only time I will take shots at a buck is when they are a mature deer large rack or not.


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## bgpark1

I would like to see a minimun pt set for Ohio much like the one in PA.... ohio has so many nice sized bucks... if we did not allow bucks with less then 3 on one side I think we would have a better overall heard. People hated it in PA when it first went into effect... but 5 years into it... many huge bucks are now being taken... plus it requires hunters to actually concentrate on what they are shooting instead of letting lead fly... like i experience each year on public land. 

I personally would not take anything under six... or notable small body wise... simply because the doe meat is better... and bucks are much more uncommon so the idea of time constraints and first by... die.... is just silly.


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## BassBlaster

FloridaFishTransplant said:


> Guys , I understand greatly what your are saying and if opportunity presents itself for a specific reason ie : meat in the frezzer , health ,family, first kill etc. The thing is that these fellows stated the were hunting horns and had passed on multiple does. I personally hunt mostly for meat which means I usually take a fair amount of does (3.5) last year , the only time I will take shots at a buck is when they are a mature deer large rack or not.


How in the world do you take half a deer?

The area you are talking about is the same area I hunt. I agree you should let the little ones walk but that is all public land. There is no way to do any kind of QDM on public land so you just have to ignore it and go on about your style of huntin. If you have hunted that area for any amount of time, you know as well as I do that there are still some brutes walking around out there. I havnt connected with one of em yet but I see em every year!! He'll step under my stand one of these days. I'll be out that way sat morn!!


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## BuckEyeBigBuck13

for a first deer small buck is fine after that i just say u suck


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## ohfisherman

now what do we want next? are we are talking about getting into slot lengths on deer? you can only shoot between a 6 and a twelve point, anything over that should be kept alive for the sake of the gene pool? if a have a tag i am gonna shoot whatever comes at me first! we can all agree that if you have a deer in the freezer then you can be a lot more selective. a doe is a nice first deer but a lot of people do not have the time to hunt all year. i myself am only good for maybe a total of 7-8 days total a year!!


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## swantucky

bgpark1 said:


> I would like to see a minimun pt set for Ohio much like the one in PA.... ohio has so many nice sized bucks... if we did not allow bucks with less then 3 on one side I think we would have a better overall heard. People hated it in PA when it first went into effect... but 5 years into it... many huge bucks are now being taken... plus it requires hunters to actually concentrate on what they are shooting instead of letting lead fly... like i experience each year on public land.
> 
> I personally would not take anything under six... or notable small body wise... simply because the doe meat is better... and bucks are much more uncommon so the idea of time constraints and first by... die.... is just silly.


Where in Ohio do you hunt?? I have yet to see a buck with less than three on a side this year. I'm not sure how antler restrictions would help, most deer at 1.5 have at least three on a side.


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## BigSteve

Swantucky is right I've seen alot 1.5 year old bucks and only 1or 2 had less than 3 on one side, the majority of the young bucks where I hunt would still be eligible under the 3pt. rule. However I also think it sucks when you got guys telling other hard working folks they suck for taking what they can in their limited amount of time. I've been working 2 jobs(1 full time 1 part) for the last year and half and I've never had less time to hunt in my life and that
really sucks. Halloween morning I killed a beautiful 2.5 year old 7pt with a 15 inch inside spread and I could not be more proud of him,the shot, or the hunt. I work too hard for someone to tell me what i can and can't shoot you got a problem with that you suck


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## BassCatcher12

I would have to agree on taking (Mature Bucks), and letting the small ones go. That is what we do with the Property I hunt, And take out Does to get the ratio where it should be. I guess It would be easier to pass on deer if you are hunting Private land with not alot of guys bowhunting. I see others Points on about there hunting time and locations, in decisions on taking a younger deer. A trophy is in the Eye of The Beholder, And sometimes if i have to put a little bbq sauce of my Buck Tag i will. IM Due For the BIG Guy.


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## Fishstix

I am a mature buck hunter. My standards are 8 points and outside the ears. There have been plenty of bucks taken just off our property that I wish would have made it through the year. But honestly, there is nothing I can do about it. I don't get mad or look down on the hunter who takes these bucks.

I have passed on many bucks I felt were a year away from being a true trophy in my eyes only to find out our neighbor harvested them. It is all apart of the sport. I know when I pass on them, that it is a crap shoot if they make it or not.

Just have to hope they make it, but that doesn't mean you are going to see them ever again.


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## ezbite

you have no right complaining about how someone LEGALLY fills their tag. not everyone lives 5 minutes away from the 10 pointers, has a deer camp or able to wait it out until the big 10 pointer comes down the trail. some people have to harvest what they can because of other obligations. im sure those guys would have liked to take a bigger deer, but they didnt and thats their choice. of all the things ive read people complaining about on this site, this is by far the most absurd, you say there a lot of deer, then you complain because someone kills them and you dont think they were big enough


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## zoar

There is no better tasting meat then a corn feed Ohio button buck


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## Lundy

Everyone has the right to set their own personal standards. No one has the right to tell someone else how they should hunt or set their standards if they are hunting within the set laws.

I promise that I will never tell you how to hunt but I also will not allow you to tell me either.

Same ole crap every year, It takes a lot of nerve.

I have very similar deer management beliefs as you do but it is self imposed, I don't step on anyone's personal rights to further my agenda


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## squid_1

I get 1 week a year to hunt deer on public hunting grounds during archery season. Brown its down. Florida you want to really enjoy yourself wait till gun season and see the stuff those church vans take back north.


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## jcustunner24

I'm still waiting to hear how Florida took that half of a doe last year? Was King Solomon involved?


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## Toxic

People have been shooting big and little bucks for years in Ohio. And Ohio still puts out trophy deer. Go look at the ODNR website. No one has the right to tell someone else how to hunt. How selfish.


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## Seaturd

Toxic said:


> People have been shooting big and little bucks for years in Ohio. And Ohio still puts out trophy deer. Go look at the ODNR website. No one has the right to tell someone else how to hunt. How selfish.


I agree with Toxic 100%. I've passed on the same six point three times now this season because I've seen at least two much bigger bucks where I'm hunting. I also have more time to hunt than a lot of people. If my son were to get a chance at that buck with his limited time to hunt i would fully encourage him to take it.


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## Danshady

the more small bucks they take, they leave thw woods and leaves it open for you to get out there and hunt the big boys! also the the little bucks that just got harvested will not be breeding any does, so therefore wouldnt you think the big boys will be on the move more now in that area trying to breed all the does!


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## Reel Thing

If I'm not mistaken the privilege of hunting deer is for conservation and maintaining a healthy population of wildlife and really has nothing to do with the management of record sized bucks 
With the proper management those things come 
Once again the all mighty $$$$ and fame has turned Joe the plumber into the expert wildlife biologist that tries to impose their beliefs on the rest 
If you're within the legal limits of the law it's our choice as to when to pull the trigger 
geowol


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## littleking

zoar said:


> There is no better tasting meat then a corn feed Ohio button buck


i have to agree... but 9 out of 10 times ill pass on a button...

buuuuuuut..... if its legal, nothing to whine about.

you cant eat antlers, last time i tried them they tasted like carp


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## nicklesman

I have the right to shoot what I want!!! Till ohio restricts antler size like Pa. i will shoot what i want it. I dont care what other people think of me it is our right to hunt as we want. I am not going to tell you how to hunt so dont tell me!!! If it is brown it is down!!!!


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## 5Cent

I had tag soup the last couple of years and as said, don't have the pleasure of hunting any private land.

If it's brown.....it's down!


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## Header

Yep, everyone here knows it's, got a tag I can shoot what I want, It's the individuals choice. The longer you hunt and more mature we get it's looking for the challenge of the mature buck. I noticed this year to my surprise 4 button bucks were taken from our landowners place. One guy was into it for the meat, you are right, why not wait on the does they come much easier. Myself I watched 2 6's and a 3 pt, broken 1 side inside 30yds. which is quit the exprience. Also a couple does came by for the 6 to chase, as I has looking for the 8+ wall hanger the first week of Nov. Got a doe 1st day this year. Guess that means I'm getting more mature, or older, lol, after 20 years hunting. The 8pt wall hanger did come by within 30yds but skirted behind a brush and fall down pile and left straight behind a 12" dia tree w/o a shot, 2 more steps he was mine, WHAT A RUSH, next time.


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## Darron

BuckEyeBigBuck13 said:


> for a first deer small buck is fine after that i just say u suck


Well said. What kills me is, the guys that complain about not seeing big bucks, yet they have a basket rack 4 or 6 point in the back of their truck I see it every year at the check station and trust me, I throw in my 2 cents. On our property, we shoot nothing but 8 or bigger and the antlers must be out to the ears at minumum. Meaning, no basket rack crab claws here. I don't know how many friends I have invited down to hunt with me, tell them our rules, and vow to never have them back. 

If it's your first deer, fine, but lets be realistic here. Are we starving to death to where we have to shoot a deer to live? Probably not. Do I like deer meat? Sure, but I eat it maybe once or twice a month. I always shoot an extra doe down on our property and give it to our amish neighbor who relies on deer meat to feed his family throughout the year. For someone like this I can see, but for most people, we don't need deer meet to survive. Point is, shoot a doe instead of a small buck. On most places the doe to buck ratio is out of whack as it is. On public land it's tough to control, but if you're on private land that gets minimal hunting pressure, it's very easy to grow bigger bucks if you do the right thing and let deer walk.


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## beatsworkin

I would make the point that Ohio's reputation as a true trophy state is due to our liberal harvest regs. Some of those smaller bucks that get taken out do have the potential to grow and get really big, that is a fact. However, many of those little dinky spikes and basket racks have just as good a chance as not growing into a "True Trophy"

Those guys that fill all their tags on does or shoot the first buck that comes along are no longer gunning for a 140 or higher, or any antlered buck for that matter. I truly believe that we see more bucks and more large bucks because of the removal of the stigma of shooting does (and lots of 'em) and young bucks. It is as close to trophy management on public land as you can get without screwing up the population. Sure, there are many bucks taken that would only get bigger, but there are just as many that need not swim in the gene pool. Ohio really produces some awesome bucks every year.

With limited amounts of free time, money, and places to hunt and dwindling numbers of hunters, I do not want to limit someones legal chance to put some quality meat on the table, spend quality time in the woods with friends or family, teaching kids patience, responsibilty and respect just because someone thinks we need to impose a definition of trophy on others.

As long as we are legal, to each his own! I respect everyones right to do what is right for them. Every deer is a trophy. Some just are bigger or more meaningful for a variety of reasons. If you wish to only shoot big bucks, more power to you. Just don't stand and lecture others who choose a different option, that is not what hunting is all about to me. 

That's my rant and I'm sticking to it!


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## sam kegg

good luck to all who hunts ( by the ohio laws and regs) its great to discuss this maybe people will take the time to think how there going to hunt! witch may make you hunt safer and smarter. i have passed on small bucks and i have taken small bucks , its all in what the hunter wants, so good luck to you guys happy hunting


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## nicklesman

I think littleking says it right you can not eat the antlers. A hunter should be aloud to shoot as they please. Who am I or at that matter who are you to say what other people shoot. As said before a trophy is in the eye of the beholder. There will always be big bucks out there they just might be a little harder to find but people will get them. after all isnt that what you people who are looking for big bucks want a challenge. People like me who dont set limits are giving people like you more of a challenge. I think that is why you chase the big guys anyway. Good luck to all hunt safe and hunt smart. this is my rant and I am sticking to it!!!!!!


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## FloridaFishTransplant

Ok the point of my thread was not to degrade anyone for taking what they could or had to take. And yes I have seen the van loads of Amish come down this way and slaughter the deer and yes it upsets me to see the size of some of there bucks. And then to hit 77 North back home where the deer population has been deciemated and finding a large buck is almost impossible. We live in this area for a couple of reasons and one if the wildlife and the quality of life we enjoy. Have you ever heard a hunter say he was looking for a small buck ? No we ALL and I mean all of us would like to have that 150 Class deer on the wall. My point once again was these fellows were hunting horns (as they stated) and they took some of the smallest racks I have ever seen. I am not telling anyone what to shoot or what to pursue but if you are hunting horns then please do and let the little bucks walk.

Also to those who asked how I took 3.5 deer last year. I took my 14 year old daughter on her first hunt during the youth hunt , we praticed all summer long and she was ready ( her words ). Opening morning we are hunting our land from a ground blind and a nice fat doe steps out at 40 yards. She takes aim and lets it fly hitting the doe across the back. She drops to the ground but is trying to move with her front. We stayed in the blind for about 10 minutes , hoping she would go down and stay down. Once i got the nocks out and looked closely it was evident that the shot was not a kill shot. At this point my daughter is almost crying because the doe did not die , I told her to take aim and put another shot on her but she couldn't. Was to much for her I guess so I finished the doe off for her.


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## Toxic

Very well said Beatsworkin. You summed it up the best. 

Last time I checked we still had the right to choose in the USA. I personally can give a rats a$$ if I shot a big rack, I can't eat them. Don't get me wrong, I'll take one if it comes around. Everyone has a different idea what a trophy is to him/her. Who are we to say any different.


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## littleking

well i eat deer meat instead of beef, ask anyone who knows me personally.

I'm allowed to take small bucks, button bucks, etc.... I'll take what I choose.

If you don't see big bucks in your area, does not mean they are not there!

again, who are you to say ANYTHING about what I take legally.


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## Toxic

FloridaFishTransplant said:


> 1) My point once again was these fellows were hunting horns (as they stated) and they took some of the smallest racks I have ever seen.
> 
> 2) I am not telling anyone what to shoot or what to pursue but if you are hunting horns then please do and let the little bucks walk.


1) How do you know those weren't trophy's to those guys? 

2) I think you are telling people what to do? 

If you get your big buck then why worry about what others do. We need to stop stressing aboiut other and start worrying about ourselves.

Good luck Dec 1st guys. I'm outa here. Some of us have to work


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## bgpark1

LOL... so much bickering... I only eat deer meat... after doing so beef causes upset stomach for weeks when I run out.... my expenses for driving and hr each way to hunt outside of stone creek pushes the cost up to about $10-$20 per pound... figure my time at normal wage... heck i don't even wanna think about it or I may be forced to stop hunting.... point is.... those of you complaining about cost should do the math.. and stick with beef at the market... lol. 

I personally will not shoot anything smaller then an 8 (non basket) I have been hunting for 8 years have dropped 3 bucks... have passed on dozens more... Berlin, West branch, ohio power, national forest, etc.... does are more tender.. so i stick with them for food but can not have small or first year fawns with them... or I pass. 

My point on a size limit was simply to curve the irresponsible shooting, anything goes mentality i witness on public lands year after year... forcing hunters to be more responsible with their shots and really knowing what they are shooting at.

What each person does inside the law... I could care less... outside the law still not my business.

I would simply like to see a higher standard of personally responsiblity and sportsmanship in many of my fellow hunters... for I have too often seen 70-100 lb deer being checked in... which results in 25-40lb of meat on a good day.... and in OHIO... that is uncalled for.


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## sdkohio

My buck was small, no doubt, but it was my first. I told my buddies any thing that walked under me without spots was going down.

I have regrets about taking a fork but I felt I needed to get this one under my belt. My goal is to take my doe soon and get bigger each year.


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## misfit

> 2) I think you are telling people what to do?


toxic,he did say "please"


> Don't shoot the little bucks , Please !!!!!


florida,with nearly one million deer in this state,i'm sure there are plenty of bigguns out there for you if you put your time in.if you want more even odds,there's always the big buck high fence hunts just down the road from me.but i don't think even they will gaurantee your success.
be thankful for the bounty we have now,as 100 years ago ou would have to leave ohio to find even one deer of any kind.


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## fshnteachr

Can someone define "basket buck?" Is it just a small set of antlers?


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## Fishpro

I'm a public land hunter, and even though I would think twice about a small(yearling) deer, I'm not going to be much more picky than that. You can't eat a rack and we don't have the deer up here that you guys down south have.


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman

I've read much of this thread and learned many opinions from it.... I hunt all ver the state and at age 15 I would call myself a mature buck hunter. I when hunting in bow season wait for a decent 8pt. no less. Although I think any deer killed with a bow is AWESOME! I also pass on does. When it comes to late gun season I tend to shoot any type of buck to fill my tag. This comes to the small buck killings. I don't shoot buttons no matter what if able to see... But if a spike comes down durning muzzleloader and I don't have a buck. It would be great for me to get that deer out of the herd. Spike and forks will almost never get big-If you shoot one the better for you. Do some research and you will find this fact true. I know myself and others have kinda gooten this off track so i'll go with it. Anter restrictions are stupid and if you think killling your second buck with a bow even if its small sucks you really do suck....


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## hunt-n-fish

NorthSouthOhioFisherman said:


> It would be great for me to get that deer out of the herd. Spike and forks will almost never get big-If you shoot one the better for you. Do some research and you will find this fact true.



Wrong!!!!!


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## bgpark1

sdkohio.... great attitude.... always try to do better... late season settle for a smaller one if you have no meat and need to fill your tag.... I passed on a basket 8 followed by a 6 20 yards 2 years ago on the last day of the season cause i knew they would be bigger in the fall... which they were. 

as far as spikes never growing to decent deer... foolishness. 

basket buck is not necassarly a small rack... however the main beams still turn inward forming a bowl or basket shape... most baskets are 1.5 to 2.5 years old... immature and have room to grow. Mature bucks main beam will normally run parallel to the head forming more of a box/ square shape. 

I am surprised no one else tried to value the meat per pd of their expenses... sickening when we go there... i just love to be in the woods and have many days under my belt with no deer in sight... and those are still good days.


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## Patriot1

i think a better way of putting this is to encourage people to take does and pass on small bucks but not condeming them if they do shoot a dink buck. If you can only hunt a couple days out of the year and just want some meat i would encouarage you to shoot a doe. If all you want is the meat then have someone shoot one for you, i give away several does every year.

Just realized in the long run the more does you shoot, and the more young bucks that survive, the better our deer hunting will be.

I think that most of you who say you want the meat but shoot a small buck probably have had a doe within range before you shot that buck.


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## Saws21

I can understand first kill, no time to hunt, and all that "ordinary" could happen to anyone, taking a small buck. 

Look at the great state of Pennsylvania, for years and years, people didn't care if they shot a spiker or a 6 point, but it was a buck, so they were "great" deer hunters?! Then the state passed a law with antler restrictions, yeah sure those people bi$ched about it, but you know what? They are now seeing the biggest bucks they've ever seen in their lives!

I'm only 25 yrs old, and a few years back, I passed up 17 different bucks throughout the season. Whenever someone sees a nice 150" buck or bigger, we all say, "Man, I wish I could get one like that someday" Well guys if you don't let them mature to atleast 3 yrs old you won't have any big ones around.

We raise whitetail deer, and it used to be if you see a spike, you need to get it out of the genepool, well thats BS! We have had spikes that by the time they are 5-6 yrs old, they score over 200 B&C!


Attached is a pic of our breeder buck at 6 yrs old, at 1 1/2 yrs old he scored a mere 25 inches if he was lucky, last year, he scored 290" with G'2's over 16"!

Let a young buck go so he can grow


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## Muskarp

Kinda surprised to see so many realistic responses. Very refreshing to see. 
1st- To think that we should impose antler restrictions on public land is rediculous. Not everyone shares the obsession with large antlers. And most working class people don't have that much free time to chase them. Sounds like this trip may have been these guys vacation. So in their minds, they made the most of it. Good for them.
2nd- As previously stated. Three less hunters in the woods. Good for us.
3rd- With license numbers falling, we surely don't need to drive more people from the sport. So lets quit looking down the nose at those that don't shoot what we choose to shoot.
4th- Most of the guys chasing big bucks are spending the entire season passing the does they should be whacking.
And finally. If everybody had a big rack on the wall, would it really be as special.
Good luck to all. Hunt to please yourself. Enjoy your time afield. And pass it on.


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## Darron

Muskarp said:


> Kinda surprised to see so many realistic responses. Very refreshing to see.
> 1st- To think that we should impose antler restrictions on public land is rediculous. Not everyone shares the obsession with large antlers. And most working class people don't have that much free time to chase them. Sounds like this trip may have been these guys vacation. So in their minds, they made the most of it. Good for them.
> 2nd- As previously stated. Three less hunters in the woods. Good for us.
> 3rd- With license numbers falling, we surely don't need to drive more people from the sport. So lets quit looking down the nose at those that don't shoot what we choose to shoot.
> 4th- Most of the guys chasing big bucks are spending the entire season passing the does they should be whacking.
> And finally. If everybody had a big rack on the wall, would it really be as special.
> Good luck to all. Hunt to please yourself. Enjoy your time afield. And pass it on.


Everyone says that hunting #'s are dropping, but I don't believe that. Show me the #'s and I still won't believe it. There are people everywhere around me hunting. I hate to say this, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see it drop even more. Less people in the woods means less pressured deer. Maybe I'm just selfish, but when I go hunting I like to relax. I can't relax having hunters everywhere around me.


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## Bassnpro1

Patriot1 said:


> I think that most of you who say you want the meat but shoot a small buck probably have had a doe within range before you shot that buck.


I wish this was the case, but the only deer I have had within range this year was a basket rack and he didn't offer a good bow shot, so I didn't take him. Believe me when I say I would rather have a doe, but I will take the first deer that gives me a shot. Where I hunt, I'm am lucky to even see a deer let alone take one. I need some canned deer meat and it looks like my bowhunting season is over with my next 3 weekends filled with national guard, michigan weekend, and thanksgiving. So hopefully I can find one or two(hopeully) during gun season.


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## grabrick

Here's an interesting read on antler characteristics.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/game_management/deer/antlers_inherited/


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## Muskarp

Darron said:


> Everyone says that hunting #'s are dropping, but I don't believe that. Show me the #'s and I still won't believe it. There are people everywhere around me hunting. I hate to say this, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see it drop even more. Less people in the woods means less pressured deer. Maybe I'm just selfish, but when I go hunting I like to relax. I can't relax having hunters everywhere around me.


The reason you see more people is probably because everyday more hunting opportunities are lost, thus congesting us on to the open lands. 
There is certainly an increase in bow hunters and I'm sure we all can agree that the antler craze has driven that phenomena. 
BTW- What does less deer pressure equal. More deer/vehicle accidents? Either way it sucks. JMO


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## swantucky

Muskarp said:


> The reason you see more people is probably because everyday more hunting opportunities are lost, thus congesting us on to the open lands.


That is the truth right there. Over the last ten or so years I have seen three of my best properties become neighborhoods or industrial parks. I have been lucky to find other places to hunt. If I drive by the limited acres of public land in the NW part of the state it sure makes me feel blessed I am not hunting that madhouse It will only get worse as leasing becomes more popular. When the common man can no longer hunt you will see alot of changes none of us will like


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## misfit

> Just realized in the long run the more does you shoot, and the more young bucks that survive, the better our deer hunting will be.


actually the reverse is more likely.a buck can breed many does,providing lots of offspring.cut down on the doe population and you have fewer total deer born.with bucks being about half the newborn,fewr does = fewer bucks born.


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## Marshall

There is nothing that sucks more to watch a big buck get bigger every year to see it get hit by a car the first week of november. I see this all to much where i work. One got lucky last night and made it across the road. It sure was a nice one. I wasn't hunting but there is awesome habitat at my workplace and get to see a lot of trophys while at work. Of course hunting is not allowed, i guess thats why there are so many big ones.


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## Net

I don't hunt anymore but I've always respected the history of wildlife management in Ohio. Every year the dow encourages us to take more deer and every year we fall short. I know weather plays a big part but I never realized we had so many trophy hunters out there.


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## NorthSouthOhioFisherman

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_lf_w7000_0247.pdf To the guy who rasies deer and lets them grow- No S*** They're going to have a good chance of getting bigger in your cage-They're fed and kept if a perfect environment with no problems... I quit this computer stuff is getting to my head


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## Fishpro

NorthSouthOhioFisherman said:


> http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_lf_w7000_0247.pdf To the guy who rasies deer and lets them grow- No S*** They're going to have a good chance of getting bigger in your cage-They're fed and kept if a perfect environment with no problems... I quit this computer stuff is getting to my head


A spike buck in the wild has a chance to grow too if noone shoots it. A spike will grow to be more than a spike...I don't remember ever seeing a deer with 20" spikes. They have to branch out sooner or later.


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## Saws21

To the guy who rasies deer and lets them grow- No S*** They're going to have a good chance of getting bigger in your cage-They're fed and kept if a perfect environment with no problems... I quit this computer stuff is getting to my head

NORTHSOUTHOHIOFISHERMAN---Wasn't ONLY talking about deer in my "cage", all deer will grow with maturity, that my friend should be common sense! And really since when are animals kept in pens, or a perfect environment like you think and don't have problems, Captive deer just like wild deer and still get pneumonia, and many other sicknesses, they can still be chased/killed by dogs or coyotes. Just because they are in a pen, doesn't mean its perfect and anything never goes wrong.


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## ezbite

Fishpro said:


> A spike buck in the wild has a chance to grow too if noone shoots it. A spike will grow to be more than a spike...I don't remember ever seeing a deer with 20" spikes. They have to branch out sooner or later.


now how do you think the african water buck feels about your statement???


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## Fishpro

ezbite said:


> now how do you think the african water buck feels about your statement???


Different specie, and they have trun horns that they don't shed.


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## nicklesman

bottom line is not every one cares about antlers!!!!!!!!


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## Kaiser878

It doesnt matter where ya go, there are people out there that jsut dotn care about shooting little bucks! Hey, if someone wants to waste their buck tag on a little buck go ahead, but dont ever complain about not ever getting to see, or much less shoot a big, mature buck! Yes, the trophy is in the eye of the hunter, but unfortunately there are to many hunters that think that a buck is a buck and its "cool" to shoot a buck no matter what the size. As if its prestigious to shoot a buck no matter what the size so they then can be labled a "buck" hunter! Again, if you are one of these individuals more power to you. I just hope I never have to hunt anywhere near where you hunt. When I take people hunting there is a rule, if I say you cant shoot it, then guess what, you dont. IF you do you will never hunt near or around me ever again. Although, no one goes hunting with me at the farm I hunt, and I mean NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!! This year I passed 13 diff. bucks out of one of my stands. Two of them were 2.5 y/o deer that would be border line P&Y. Another was a 3.5 y/o 8 that would go prob 130-135! THe others were mostly 1.5 y/o bucks that have stellar potential. 

Unfortunately there are "meat" hunters that dont grasp the concept of shooting a doe. I promise you, if you are seeing young bucks, you will see a doe, its a numbers game! LAst saturday I let my girlfriend shoot a 1.5 y/o 8 pt at my house. The only reason why is because she had never been deer hunting before in her life, and that was the first deer to come in. A little kid shooting a little buck is cool, for the first or second deer. Even an adult shooting a little buck that is thier first deer is cool in my eyes. Unfortunately there are adults that routinely kill a 1.5 y/o buck every year. I guess to each his own, but for you baby buck killers, dont whine and complain because you never see or shoot a big buck! Thats the way it works!!!!! 

One last example, look at michigan. They have essentially the same agricultural practice as we do here in ohio. They have the same potential to grow large bucks jsut as we do. They are allowed two bucks, thats absolutely assanign. THey have not grasped the QDM plan up there and every year it is a baby buck massacre. Every hunter shoots their two bucks, combined not scoring over 120 inches! But they are buck hunters and are in the elite club of "Buck Hunters." Sounds cool to me, or not!!!!!!! Take a gander at michigan-sportsman.com, go to whitetailed deer hunting and go to the team challenge where they have their picture post. ITs sickening, its a slaughter fest of baby bucks!


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## misfit

ah,at last.cabin fever has finally set in
but i never thought i'd be reading some of the replies i've read in this forum.bad enough we see this stuff in the bass and steelhead forums,but now the deer police?
for those of you who would put people down who don't meet your high stands for a "buck hunter",all i can say is i wouldn't accept an invitation to hunt with you anyway,for fear of developing an extremely level of self esteem by from just being in the company of such a self rightous and supreme being


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## Kaiser878

misfit said:


> ah,at last.cabin fever has finally set in
> but i never thought i'd be reading some of the replies i've read in this forum.bad enough we see this stuff in the bass and steelhead forums,but now the deer police?
> for those of you who would put people down who don't meet your high stands for a "buck hunter",all i can say is i wouldn't accept an invitation to hunt with you anyway,for fear of developing an extremely level of self esteem by from just being in the company of such a self rightous and supreme being



Not real sure if that was directed at me, but ill respond. Im not in the best mood anyway, its saturday night, and I am at work until 7 am. So here ya go!!!

Not once in any part fo my post did I put anyone down. I actually said, to each his own. Apparently you didnt read what I posted very well. I never claimed to be a "buck hunter." I was stating that people think that if they kill a small buck every year they are considered a "buck hunter." There is some massive amount of prestige that is placed on those peoples shoulders who shoot a buck every year, mostly by those who are not actively involved in the sport. Those who dont realize the importance of shooting does. These are the same people who say, "why would I wanna shoot a doe, they are easy to kill?"

As far as you declining an invite to hunt with me, god forbid you go and learn something! Besides, you would wet yourself due to seeing so many young healthy bucks and not being able to slaughter them and ruin their chance to thrive as mature whitetails. Not to mention I dont think I put an invite in my last post for you anyway! I doubt if you would meet the criteria necessary to be eligible.

Judging by your last post I gather you are one of the annual baby buck killers and took offense to my post. I apologize, I didnt mean to offend you. Apparently you felt some sort of guilt and decided to make a dig at me. I hope my previous retort doesnt offend you again! Happy hunting!


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## misfit

actually it was a blanket statement referring to any and all who seem to think their way is the right way.be it shooting does,spikes or 200 inch trophies for their own personal reasons.to each his own.
as for losing control of my bladder at the site of a few of your "non-shooters",LOL.i've seen and killed my share of deer over the years and don't feel the slightest bit of guilt,and my drawers are still dry
but i gave up deer hunting several years ago due to the lack of quality bucks in the area  
it also takes much more than than a few words to offend me,which doesn't seem to be the case for you
but since my intent was not to offend,don't look for an apology if it did.
btw,i'm in a very good mood


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## Kaiser878

Oh Im not offended. You said nothing to offend me! Again, my way isnt necessarily the right way, but if it is working what makes it wrong? Once again, to each his own!


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## bgpark1

I have posted 3 times to this... and the one thing that is great to see is people passionate about the same sport have have grown to love the last few years. Watching young bucks grow, knowing i could have had them for dinner the previous year has really added a whole new level to my sport. I also find it to be more challenging to have that doe or buck within 15 yards of me, never knowing i am there... watching the way they move and interact with their surroundings, the sounds and having the restraint to actually pass not knowing when your next chance may be.... not to mention that 5-6 year old 12pt buck slowly slipping through the woods in a slow motion manner, head down, and sticking to shadows last year made me realize one thing... one needs to spend lots of time in the woods or get extremely lucky to bag one of those old boys... and those are the real trophies... the memories. 

My hat off to everyone that takes part... no matter which side of this subject matter you support. Good hunting gents.


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## Muskarp

Kaiser878 said:


> One last example, look at michigan. They have essentially the same agricultural practice as we do here in ohio.


That may be true. But deer spend most of their time in woods, not disced-up bean fields. That's where we differ from Michigan. Their aspen/birch/pine forests are great for grouse. Our oak/hickory forests are great for deer. A majority of Michigans timber is not high quality deer habitat. So to blame small antlers solely on a two buck limit is a little ignorant.


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## tcba1987

a deer is a deer ..........you cant eat the rack..........if someone buys a deer tag and takes a deer within the limits of the law it is their business what they take !!!


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## Kaiser878

Muskarp said:


> That may be true. But deer spend most of their time in woods, not disced-up bean fields. That's where we differ from Michigan. Their aspen/birch/pine forests are great for grouse. Our oak/hickory forests are great for deer. A majority of Michigans timber is not high quality deer habitat. So to blame small antlers solely on a two buck limit is a little ignorant.


I wasnt totaly blaming it on that, hence "one last example." One of many! Although that has a lot to do with it. Yes their woods are not as "deer Friendly" as ours, but their lack of management has a lot to do with their inferior racks! So whats the excuse for PA? They are just as loaded with oaks as we are. Not to mention michigan isnt just pines, aspens, and birch trees. Segregated sections are this way, especially when you get up into the UP. A fair portion of michigan is a mirror image of ohio!


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## Kaiser878

Muskarp said:


> That may be true. But deer spend most of their time in woods, not disced-up bean fields. That's where we differ from Michigan. Their aspen/birch/pine forests are great for grouse. Our oak/hickory forests are great for deer. A majority of Michigans timber is not high quality deer habitat. So to blame small antlers solely on a two buck limit is a little ignorant.


Check this link out. Whats the excuse for this farm in MI? Must be because it is the only 300 acres in michigan with oak trees on it! and not one aspen or pine! 
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261282


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## Darron

misfit said:


> for those of you who would put people down who don't meet your high stands for a "buck hunter",all i can say is i wouldn't accept an invitation to hunt with you anyway,for fear of developing an extremely level of self esteem by from just being in the company of such a self rightous and supreme being


Man really??? The invitation was on the way. By the way, what's your address?


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## Muskarp

Kaiser878 said:


> Check this link out. Whats the excuse for this farm in MI? Must be because it is the only 300 acres in michigan with oak trees on it! and not one aspen or pine!
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261282


Wow, great arguement! Except your initial arguement wasn't about one farm. You were suggesting a change in the regulations for the entire state. It's easy to manage small tracts of land for near optimum results of the people hunting it. Much more difficult to manage many different cover types for many different hunter types. It's the states job to make as many people happy while not negatively impacting the system. Isn't FREEDOM what this country was founded on! !#


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## Kaiser878

Muskarp said:


> Wow, great arguement! Except your initial arguement wasn't about one farm. You were suggesting a change in the regulations for the entire state. It's easy to manage small tracts of land for near optimum results of the people hunting it. Much more difficult to manage many different cover types for many different hunter types. It's the states job to make as many people happy while not negatively impacting the system. Isn't FREEDOM what this country was founded on! !#



I realize my argument wasnt abotu one farm, it was about the whole state in general. This one farm just goes to show that large deer in michigan is possible. You think that they have been shooting 1.5 y/o bucks on this farm? Not likely.


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## Carpn

As much as I hate seeing the little deer I've been passing all bowseason take a ride to the check station in the back of a pickup ya hafta keep in mind some people are truely happy to take any deer and if its a 1.5 old 8 pt they are even happier. What does bother me is people who shoot a little buck then state any number of excuses as to why they shot it or the folks that try to shoot multiple young deer then find other people to tag them....This practice is pretty common in some areas unfortunely.
I would love to see other folks adopt the same "Pass em and let em grow" philosophy I and alot of you share but its not for everyone. In my mind whenever I pass a deer I'm not doing so because I have any expectation of it getting older, I do so because its not big enough for me to end my season. When I used to pass em hoping they would grow up it ate me alive seeing them all mowed down the first week after thankgiving.


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## Lundy

I really think that some watch too many hunting shows.

There seems to be a self anointed kingship based upon the size of deer you kill. As if somehow points are awarded towards self proclaimed hunting prowess and greatness that directly correlates to the inches of antler you harvest.

I too used to be in that same mindset. I used to bowhunt hunt 4-5 states every year. I would kill the better bucks and haul them around for all to see, take pictures to the bowclub and hang them up in the bowshop for all to admire and give me props. If I failed to take a good buck and took a doe I would almost apologetically say that "I only took a doe" as if somehow my hunt was diminished and my self applied prowess was slipping.

As a grew older I learned that the enjoyment and hunting is much more rewarding when you start hunting to fulfill your own desires rather than trying to hunt to impress others with inches of antler.

I do not and have not shot a young buck in over 25 years, but I do not frown on anyone that does, rather I congratulate them with the same sincere enthusiasm for a 80" buck as I do for a 150" buck. I am a firm believer that the buck does not make the hunter, rather the hunter himself makes the hunter. 

We practice our own version of QDM on the large tract of land that we have been hunting in Athens for the last 18 years. We just don't shoot young bucks, we enjoy trying to harvest mature bucks. We take plenty of does for meat. I can go for a few years and never shoot a buck and still completely enjoy my hunts. We see bunches of young bucks every year that get blown up during gun season on the adjoining property. If those 120-130 " eights we see many of every year could survive they may mature into the type of buck we enjoy hunting, but we know that many will be killed off during the gun season and that's ok, I don't begrudge anyone taking what they want, even when it means they are taking deer that I would like to take when they get a couple of years older.

Last year I did not pull the trigger, on Tuesday alone of gun season I saw 11-12 bucks of which 3 were those 120-130" inch class bucks. My son had already killed enough meat so I didn't even take any does. I hunted from daylight to dark, never leaving the woods, everyday of gun and MZ seasons, never pulled the trigger and had a very enjoyable season. I do not think I am less of a hunter because I didn't kill a deer, any deer.

No one is always going to agree on how you should manage or what you should kill or not kill. Do what satisfies your needs and let others do their thing. 

Hunt for yourself and have fun


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## bulafisherman

I say to each and their own.I used to take what I could till several years ago I started having more time to hunt and couldnt find any satisfaction in shooting a small buck,I would now perfer to take a doe for meat and let the little bucks walk, but everyone has a different perspective,I say let the record speak for its self. when you look at Ohio and the amount of big bucks taken.....nuff said


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## TheKing

Great posts! 
For me, I don't understand harvesting for the rack. And I think it is a shame to take those beasts out of the field. They rule, train, protect the herd, and have the superior gene pool. So, I am completely on the opposite side of the original poster's request to focus hunting on them. 
Making a request for all hunters think like me is a bit ridiculous, eh?


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## H2O Mellon

littleking said:


> you cant eat antlers, last time i tried them they tasted like carp


I can't either but man my dads dog LOVES them!


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## H2O Mellon

Lundy said:


> Hunt for yourself and have fun


That sums it up for me. Isn't this what it's really all about?


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## Shortdrift

"No one is always going to agree on how you should manage or what you should kill or not kill. Do what satisfies your needs and let others do their thing. 

Hunt for yourself and have fun"
=======================================================

Well said Kim, well said


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## Saws21

vegetation,, yes that does contribute to all around deer health, but at the same time, the animals will adapt, and feed on whatever is around their surrondings, Look at Eastern Montana for example, Not really **** out their for hardwoods, some farm ground, but alot of underbrush that they eat, Last time I checked they have some pretty nice whitetails runnin around their.

Another example is look at the Ring Neck Pheasant- Haven't had any around here since before I was born, Even when I was younger, growing up rabbit hunting in 1990, no pheasants, For years we have had CRP government ground to bring back these beautiful and tasty birds and hopefully help the quail population also,, HA! The problem with being able to bring these birds back is that around here, they are not any fence rows, or much cover for these birds, Farmers spray and kill everything they would eat, Why? 

Then you look at Wyoming, South Dakota, and even Montana,,, boy they kick our butts when it comes to pheasants, and they don't hardly have any of the grain crops we grow around here, winters are much worse out their, yet they can have plenty of pheasants!?


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## Fishstix

This is ridiculous...I could care less what other people shoot. I can only do my part for QDM. I hunt 600 acre's, so I know year in and year out there will always be big bucks. You guys just need to let this go. He was just stating an opinion and you guys are reading way to much into this.


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## misfit

c'mon fishstix,you need to let it go.they're only voicing their opinions,and you're reading way too much into this


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## ODNR3723

This is an interesting post in which everyone is passionate about their point of view. Here is how i see it. I believe small bucks should be allowed to walk so they can mature. This being said, i also hunt private property. Bit different than public property. Everyone should be allowed to choose what they shoot. 
I harvest does every year because the right buck does not appear. (They are invisible when they want to be.) For someone that relys on venison for food i say blaze away. 

Good luck to all of you guys hunting in the coming weeks.


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## BIG J LAV

I have had a few years where I passed on smaller Bucks and Does walking with thier young only to end up without a deer. I would later say to myself why didn't I shoot after all the work I put in and money I spent. This year I passed on 2 - 4 points and a 6 so far, also on a mom with 2 young (all within 20 yds.). I would like a Big Buck, but learning from the past this is this years philosophy for me " I'm Bow hunting for a Nice Buck or Doe of my choice. When gun season starts I will take what the land gives me and be happy to harvest a deer." With that said, I did pass on a little 6 last year at approx. 70yds during shotgun since I already had taken a Doe, and ended up with a nice 10pt. during Muzzleloader. It paid to wait since I wanted a nice Buck, but I would have taken that 6 before I ended up deer-less. Be safe to all and make your decision on what you feel is best for you within the law...
________
Buy Bubblers


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## wildman

No quality buck Where were you hunting. Where r you hunting..misfit
As for the not shooting small bucks I am in complete agreement in letting small bucks go. If its not mature 3.5 to 5.5 let it go. Shoot a doe if you want to shoot something but all a small buck is, is a doe with small horns. Thats how you increase your odds on shooting a mature buck.
I hate it when people shoot small bucks its a shame. As I have read some of the post I think its silly that people would like to shot a small buck. Deer drives during gun season "yes" people working hard to get deer to move. You have to shoot it,if its brown its down Like the "browns" WHO DEY. During bow season come on pass and shoot a doe.


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## misfit

> No quality buck Where were you hunting. Where r you hunting..misfit


i don't recall saying there were no quality bucks where i hunt.in fact i stated that i don't even hunt anymore,but the area where i did,has produced plenty of quality bucks over the years years,and still does.


> but all a small buck is, is a doe with small horns


LOL,no matter how you slice it,a small buck with small horns is still a buck.in fact a small buck without horns is still a buck also 
as has been mentioned,nobody has the right to tell anyone else what or what not to shoot.but i guess some folks just like to hear themselves talk.


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## Lundy

I have a couple of questions for some of you.

Do you have to take a deer or two to call your season a success and enjoy it? I know this will probably vary based upon years hunting

If you lived in the wilderness, no neighbors, no phones, no Internet, no cameras, no other people, would it really matter to you what size deer you shot if you couldn't show it to someone?

Maybe it is just because I'm older than most, I don't know, but I don't shoot small bucks. My fun is trying to take mature bucks, that is how I enjoy hunting. If I get one great, if I don't great, I still love to spend the time out hunting. The actual kill is far less rewarding to me than all of the effort, planning, anticipation, and quality time spent with family and firends, leading up to the moment.

That being said, that is how I choose to hunt, what I enjoy. I would never try to force my beliefs onto someone else however. As long as they hunt within the laws I'm good with whatever a hunter chooses to take. I don't personally agree with it, but I won't be critical of them for exercising their same right to choose that I have.

I wish everyone a great and safe season. I hope you all kill big bucks


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## misfit

> Maybe it is just because I'm older than most, I don't know, but I don't shoot small bucks. My fun is trying to take mature bucks, that is how I enjoy hunting. If I get one great, if I don't great, I still love to spend the time out hunting. The actual kill is far less rewarding to me than all of the effort, planning, anticipation, and quality time spent with family and firends, leading up to the moment.


ah c'mon,you're still younger than some
but you make some great points there.i've always just enjoyed being out and enjoying nature.never mattered if i kiled a deer,or caught a fish.all the other rewards are enough.some of my most enjoyable hunts have been times when i never nocked an arrow or pulled the trigger.


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## sam kegg

a bad day in the woods or on the lake is still better then a good day at work!!!!!!!!!


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## Fishstix

You can say that again


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## jonzun

Over 11,200 posts! How does someone with that many even have time to get into the woods or on the water?


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## beatsworkin

He has text capable reels........

Lundy, where you hunt, I don't know what you need more, deer repellant or body armour!

I do not begrudge anyone on their legal choice as to what type of deer they harvest. I enjoy the planning, the time spent with family and friends and the chance to get out and relax. I have always felt that the actual harvest is not the mark of a succesful hunt. When I become too focused on the take and loose sight of the means, then I will quit.

We are the top predators in Ohio, and in many other states. This means we are obligated to remove animals of all sizes, ages and sex. Wolves do not check the inside spread of a buck prior to giving chase. We cannot chase deer across miles of ground to determine which are the weakest. Judging by the many pictures of very nice bucks and record deer from Ohio, I think we do a decent job of letting some of the strongest survive. We are caretakers of a great resource, something not to be taken lightly. 

I think too many of the shows on TV loose sight of this in their quest for a "mature buck". It is not the holding out for a big, mature deer that bothers me, it is the sense that we are not succesful if we take something else and that so many seem to have egos that need stroked in this sport.

No matter what everyone takes this year, good luck and be safe!


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## misfit

> Over 11,200 posts! How does someone with that many even have time to get into the woods or on the water?


first thing you have to do is retire and have lots of spare time to do it all.
second,you have to spend almost 50 years in the woods and on the water BEFORE you retire and even own a computer  

beatsworkin,great reply.and i especially agree on the last part.i thought about that myself.i see it as similar to the misguided c&r mentality of so many people,based on all the tv exposure of tourneys,etc.


> I think too many of the shows on TV loose sight of this in their quest for a "mature buck". It is not the holding out for a big, mature deer that bothers me, it is the sense that we are not succesful if we take something else and that so many seem to have egos that need stroked in this sport.


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## beatsworkin

misfit said:


> first thing you have to do is retire and have lots of spare time to do it all.
> second,you have to spend almost 50 years in the woods and on the water BEFORE you retire and even own a computer
> 
> beatsworkin,great reply.and i especially agree on the last part.i thought about that myself.i see it as similar to the misguided c&r mentality of so many people,based on all the tv exposure of tourneys,etc.


Rick-

Thanks. I thought of that as well, but that is another can of worms, so to speak!


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## FSHNERIE

I have 2 trophy bucks running around out back.I came sooo close to shooting one.However,I let them pass.The youn'ins taste better.......


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## Procraftboats21

hahaha i love it! best post yet


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## Bonemann

I hunt with people on both sides of this issue and neither
upsets me. It's a personal thing to some any legally taken
deer is an accomplishment and I have to agree.

It upsets me more to see the "bucket fishermen" you know
the ones, they put every fish caught in the bucket to be
ground up later to make fish patties. 

I have read so many articles that say the best way to get
large record bucks is to take inferior ones (and does to make
the ratio better) so the inferior bucks have less chance
to pass on their genes. Who really knows?

But until laws are changed to protect smallfish or deer it 
will go on and on. 

Personally instead of giving more and more tags I would like
to see a longer gun season.


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## Ohio Hunter

How can one judge what is a " trophy in another persons eyes. Maybe a smaller rack buck who has seen his better years and that is 5 years old is a trophy in my eyes or a 160" 3 year old, or yet again maybe I get out 10 times a year and any racked buck is my trophy. I can see both sides of this and know how I would handle it if I managed a large chunk of land, but I don't and to each his own.


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## Toxic

After 99 post, has anyone's mind been changed yet? I don't think so. So shoot what makes you happy!


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## Darron

Bonemann said:


> I
> Personally instead of giving more and more tags I would like
> to see a longer gun season.


How would a longer gun season correlate into better deer and deer hunting? Everyone knows after the guns start going off the deer turn nocturnal, especially on heavily hunted areas. The way it is now is about right. A week gun season, week off, then two additional days, and then a four day ML season. That's 13 days to hunt with a gun. 

What I would like to see is them open up deer gun season the Saturday After Thanksgiving. I'm sure a lot of employers would like this as well


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## BIG J LAV

I'm not kidding here... I passed on a Large, Mature, Grey, in the face SPIKE last night. you could tell by his body size, look, and movements that he's been around a long time. It hung out about 3 min. within 15yds. to 25 yds. What would anyone here have done? Save your Tag? Shoot the deer? Shoot the Mature Deer? Get rid of the Bad Gene's? I didn't shoot out of choice but I bet if I posted Spike Down today I would be harrassed... Hope I still have a chance to harvest a deer this year. Be Safe.
________
MARIJUANA SEEDS


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## truck

Toxic said:


> After 99 post, has anyone's mind been changed yet? I don't think so. So shoot what makes you happy!


I agree


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## Kaiser878

BIG J LAV said:


> I'm not kidding here... I passed on a Large, Mature, Grey, in the face SPIKE last night. you could tell by his body size, look, and movements that he's been around a long time. It hung out about 3 min. within 15yds. to 25 yds. What would anyone here have done? Save your Tag? Shoot the deer? Shoot the Mature Deer? Get rid of the Bad Gene's? I didn't shoot out of choice but I bet if I posted Spike Down today I would be harrassed... Hope I still have a chance to harvest a deer this year. Be Safe.



U wouldnt be harrassed if it were a mature deer. If indeed it was an older, insubordinant buck then you woulda done the rt thing! If the spikes were less than 3 inches long, then you just shot an antlerless deer! ha


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## MuskieMan35

FloridaFish-
I agree with you and I choose to take 3-1/2 yr old bucks or older.
next year I am vowing to my buddies that I'm only going for
a 4-1/2 or one bigger then my 150 class 8 pt.
But in my opinion, any deer with a bow is a trophy.
Just think though- At least those out-of -town guys aren't taking the huge trophies from your area?


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## FloridaFishTransplant

Big J - Yes I would have taken the deer if in fact it was defined as a mature deer. 

I do not hunt for horns although i do enjoy a nice large rack on the wall. A mature buck is a mature buck and will be meat in the freezer. I got a doe on Saturday and let 2 small 4 points walk. Yes I am hunting my own property but over the past week I have ask over 30 local landowners the same questions and as I figured it was very loop sided answer in favor of my original post. I then stopped by Lori's in Caldwell and had breakfast and then again dinner the same night. I noticed as usual the large number of hunters so I posed the question to them and was kinda suprised by there answer , which was along the lines of brown and down. Then I ask if they were local , as as I should have figured nope 7 were from out of state , 3 from Canton/Akron,1 from Toledo. So this leads me to believe that since they have no vested interest in the health of the deer herd why should they care about what gets taken.

It is very nice to see that this has spured some real conversation on this forum.


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## Fishman

misfit said:


> ah,at last.cabin fever has finally set in


That's the irony of this thread, it's prime rut guys. Get out there, enjoy it, and have a safe time! 

I like to put 2 deer in my freezer each year for meat, I rarely buy beef. I pass on small deer early into the season all the time, but if by this time I havn't saw a bruiser and time constraints are setting in I take what I can. Time constraints, a VAST majority of the time, are probably why people harvest what they do. Honestly, sitting in a tree stand in 32 degree or less weather is not my idea of fun, but for some odd reason I don't mind sitting on a bucket on the ice in that kind of weather or out on a boat on the windy Ohio River  But telling people "they suck" because of how they choose to hunt is pretty dog gone rude, don't you think?

Gun seasons right around the corner, I'll finish up that week with deer season if I havn't gotten a doe between now and then. Shouldn't be long now, I just started dumping 10 gallons of apples a day right by my blind


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## wildman

This is funny Its almost political. People are up in arms with this post. My hole thing is if you are hunting for meat shoot a doe so the people that are rack hunting have more opportunity. There was a day that I would shoot any thing.
But and now Ive gotten picky if I was meat hunting then my season would be over in a week There are deer everywhere and my wife would not "allow me to hunt" lol. I'm kidding but I would catch the nonsense. If I go after the impossible or near imposable I keeps me in the woods and I get to enjoy my time in the woods. Just like lundy said the chase is far more rewarding than the kill. I don't shot anything till gun season unless It really big. Then I black powder it. My point is if you are bow hunting It would be nice if the small bucks were not shot and the does were. We have far to high deer #'s in Ohio. The big bucks are not to show off to people, its the most difficult animal in the U.S. to hunt and very hard to ethically hunt " no corn feeders with timers or apples lol" and successfully harvest a trophy. So why not challenge yourself. My favorite thing about hunting season is 1. DEER CAMP WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS 2. SITTING IN THE DUCK BLIND WITH FRIENDS 3. PHEASANT HUNTING WITH MY DOG AND FRIENDS That's what I live for. is not the kill.


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## misfit

> My hole thing is if you are hunting for meat shoot a doe so the people that are rack hunting have more opportunity.


so let me get this straight..................you're telling me if my intentions are to put food on the table(if i get the chance),i should only shoot a doe because if i don't,i'm ruining your chances to kill a big buck?

makes complete sense to me


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## Muskarp

The bottom line is. If you rack hunters were as good as you think you are you wouldn't have to beg others not to shoot bucks. Do you really need that many out there to be successful? Watch out bambi, you got 11 days to find a spot to hide!


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## Darron

Muskarp said:


> The bottom line is. If you rack hunters were as good as you think you are you wouldn't have to beg others not to shoot bucks. Do you really need that many out there to be successful? Watch out bambi, you got 11 days to find a spot to hide!


Bottom line if you would pass on the small bucks we (all of us ) would see bigger deer. Plain and simple. If you don't let them grow, they can't get big. 

Try hunting a mature buck sometime and not those crab claws. Maybe you'll think twice about how "good" you are. Anyone can go out here and shoot "a" deer. Doesn't make you a good hunter. A "great hunter" shoots mature deer every year. What is mature you ask? 3+ year old deer. 

Before I shoot a deer I ask myself, "Am I embarrassed to check this thing in?" If I answer yes, I let it go. I also let it go if I can pack the thing out on my back also called "dog deer."


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## Muskarp

If I had three months off in the summer and a month for the holidays maybe I would blow up my ego by chasing a brute. But I don't. And don't kid yourself 90&#37; of hunting is luck. The other 10 is private land. BTW. I know I'm good. I don't have to ask other hunters to pass on one so I can get it.


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## Fishstix

I have 3 months off in the summer and a month for the holidays and you are full of crap if you think that I have all the time in the world to hunt.

I am a selective hunter and do shoot "brutes," but it doesn't matter to me if I get a buck or not. Does are for filling the freezer.


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## Muskarp

Fishstix said:


> I have 3 months off in the summer and a month for the holidays and you are full of crap if you think that I have all the time in the world to hunt.


Well, you have more time than most people. And if your still shooting "brutes" what are you b&tching about?


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## misfit

> A "great hunter" shoots mature deer every year.


i can see someone has a lot to learn


> Before I shoot a deer I ask myself, "Am I embarrassed to check this thing in?" If I answer yes, I let it go


LOL.some REALLY has a lot to learn.

my guess is if your ego needs that much of a boost,you'll always be an embarrassment to yourself


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## Fishstix

I'm not complaining about anything. I just took offense to your comment. Even with all the breaks, I don't have the time you think I have to hunt. To be honest, I have only shot 1 "brute" in the last 4 years. That is what I meant when I said it doesn't matter to me if I shoot a buck or not. Like many others, it is the pursuit that interests me and that pursuit ends the moment I take a smaller buck. If I continue to pass on smaller bucks, my chances increase on getting a chance at a bigger buck.

I could careless what other people shoot. It is there legal right to shoot whatever they want. I used to get bent out of shape because of all the smaller bucks shot in the area I hunt. But over the years I realized something, no matter what is being shot THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE BIG BUCKS IN THE AREA.


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## Muskarp

Fishstix said:


> It is there legal right to shoot whatever they want. I used to get bent out of shape because of all the smaller bucks shot in the area I hunt. But over the years I realized something, no matter what is being shot THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE BIG BUCKS IN THE AREA.


Agreed! What we really should be upset about is the JA's that shoot the nice bucks in the middle of the night. That is the real tragedy. Good luck to all. Including Bambi.


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## Patriot1

Its funny how people get mad because other people hunt more than them. If you don't have a lot of time, thats your problem, don't diss other people cuz we spend more time in the woods than you.

My philosophy is that i hunt for the challenge and to improve my property's deer habitat. I dont have to shoot a buck every year, and that is fine. Shooting an immature buck is not much of a challenge for me. The challenge and "the hunt" for me is to hunt mature bucks. Are we really hunting small bucks, or are we just shooting them? 

I hunt for the challenge, so if you don't want to challenge yourself go shoot what ever you want.


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## River Anglin

This is a really interesting disagreement. The folks who have access to great properties see it one way. The folks who are stuck with public or "deer-limited" properties see it another way.

I don't deer hunt anymore because I really have no place to go unless I want to travel a great distance for crowded public land. I used to have access to three local properties. All three have changed hands now and hunting is prohibited. When I did have access, I spent many long hours in the cold without ever seeing a deer. Other hunters on those properties had the same experience. So, if one of us was lucky enough to get a good shot at any deer, we took it no matter what it was (excepting yearlings, of course). My first and only deer was a 4 point buck. It took me 4 years to get it and I was proud of it. I sat through the safety course, paid for licenses and deer tags, spent alot of time in all kinds of conditions, and although I butchered it myself, I still spent money having the ground meat, sausage and packaging done. That's a lot of time and money for a little meat in the freezer. 

Since I already got my first deer, I guess I'm supposed to let all deer go from now on until I get that big shot at a trophy? If that's the case, I'm not sure I'm interested in wasting the time and money, not to mention the effort to find some land.


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## BIG J LAV

This is the reason I passed on the "Mature Spike". I have gotten out approximately 3 days each week of Bow Season (fiance works afternoons and no kids). I have access to a few different properties and My back yard which makes it convenient with the time change. I also hunt public land. I would have to say I've seen deer on at least 60%-70% of my trips this year, and about 90% of my last 10 trips. That's a lot of deer for a former Youngstown City Boy who started hunting 6 years ago (although most of the time they not in range). I have seen a few nice Bucks that I can't seem to ambush. I don't eat horns, but the challenge has me ready to jump out of my skin at times sitting here at work. I agree that hunting a Mature Buck (with a compound bow) without Feeders, Apples, Salt Blocks, ect.. is one of the hardest and most enjoyable outdoor things for me to do. I have taken them with a gun and crossbow, but without any lure and the extra movement invlolved with the compound bow, I just couldn't sell myself short on the 1st time seen Mature Spike when I've been hunting a few Specific Deer . I questioned myself more about that deer then 2-4's, a 6, and a few spikes I could have taken already. Thanks for everyones input, although my concience is not yet cleansed. Have fun be safe!
________
Thames 300e


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## Seaturd

Muskarp said:


> Agreed! *What we really should be upset about is the JA's that shoot the nice bucks in the middle of the night. That is the real tragedy.* Good luck to all. Including Bambi.



Most intelligent input in this entire thread is right here. Instead of pissin' into the wind about legal hunting tactics maybe we should discuss coming up with better ways to eliminate poaching.


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## ohfisherman

you people are all nuts!!!!!! just go out and hunt and enjoy yourselves!!!!!!! you are turning deer hunting into fly fishing.....some people are in it for the meat, others are just snobs who think size/ technique is all that matters......


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## Papascott

ohfisherman said:


> you people are all nuts!!!!!! just go out and hunt and enjoy yourselves!!!!!!! you are turning deer hunting into fly fishing.....some people are in it for the meat, others are just snobs who think size/ technique is all that matters......


Best post of the week there!


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## BIG J LAV

OHFISHERMAN - "If" you were allowed to keep only 1 Walleye on a Lake Erie fishing trip, and the first you reeled in is was 13". Would you keep it or throw it back for another chance? That's the same question hunting gives me, take what I can get or take a chance for what I consider more (greed). We all know the young smaller fish, deer, lambs, cows, and Women taste better  , but some of us still pass on things for whatever reason. I agree with you, I am nuts! But what defines Sanity? I know it's not sitting motionless in a tree in bad weather for hours upon end, Face in the wind, Wearing clothes with pictures of Sticks on them, and with Boots I just coated with Animal (or even my own) Urine. Cheers to us all. We are ALL so far off our Rocker we are arguing to justify how NUTS we think as to convince others we are right. Good luck next week to all...
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES


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## Papascott

BIG J LAV said:


> OHFISHERMAN - "If" you were allowed to keep only 1 Walleye on a Lake Erie fishing trip, and the first you reeled in is was 13". Would you keep it or throw it back for another chance? That's the same question hunting gives me, take what I can get or take a chance for what I consider more (greed). We all know the young smaller fish, deer, lambs, cows, and Women taste better  , but some of us still pass on things for whatever reason. I agree with you, I am nuts! But what defines Sanity? I know it's not sitting motionless in a tree in bad weather for hours upon end, Face in the wind, Wearing clothes with pictures of Sticks on them, and with Boots I just coated with Animal (or even my own) Urine. Cheers to us all. We are ALL so far off our Rocker we are arguing to justify how NUTS we think as to convince others we are right. Good luck next week to all...


Better throw it back! 15" size limit on Erie. On Erie your allowed 6 fish a day, deer your allowd up to 7 a year, apples and oranges there.


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## gpb1111

Teddy Roosevelt would be ashamed, as am I.


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## vc1111

Food for thought...pardon the pun...I present the following only as a matter of interest. My opinion is just that, my opinion, nothing more....

I wonder if those of you that bass fish passionately apply the same logic ("its legal so don't tell me your opinion") to those who keep and eat every bass they catch.

Having said that, I do agree that it is a matter of opinion and I TRULY don't care what you do within the confines of the law. Killing larger bucks is a challenge that some people are simply not interested in and that is fine with me at the end of the day. 

I present _myself_ with the challenge to try for a larger animal is that is what I am doing...it is a choice, not a mandate. I started out killing lots of smaller bucks. It bored me after a while, but I get to hunt way more than most guys do.

These "arguments" are worthless as long as one is following the law.

For you musky guys (like me) and you bass guys...think about this...if you truly believe that you should not eat "gamefish" then don't musky fish in hot weather when the mortality rate per fish caught goes way up...and by all means, don't ever, ever, ever bass fish during the spawning time because if you pull one female off her nest, the blue gill and other fish move in and slaughter the fry, which kills countless fish that will one day be tomorrow's hawgs, right? 

I would also contend that a powerful (but equally as worthless) "argument" could be made that if a certain number of bass die after being caught in warmer weather, the better the bass or musky fisherman you are, the more you kill every year, even after you release them. Think about that one for a while.

You get the idea...it is hard to be consistent across the board...and none of us, including me, truly are.

These threads come up on every board every year. No one is really swayed. It is all too personal and the change, if any, comes naturally; it does not occur because someone was brow-beaten on some website somewhere.

Another topic that makes me chuckle every year is the "if the neighbor dog/cat comes around when I'm hunting, I'm 'taking it out;' my hunting it toooooo serious for me to have a hunt ruined." Publicly discussing killing domestic animals can't be good for our sport, in my mind at least. But again, that's my opinion...if its legal where you hunt to kill the neighbor dog, go for it. I might react to having a hunt ruined by simply packing up and heading home. In fact, where I live, I have more hunts "ruined" by people walking through the woods, or quad drivers cruising through, or the noise of local businesses, or the announcer firing up the loudspeaker system to narrate the friday evening football game for the local team. Its all just part of the game to me.

Hunt legal. Fish legal. Have fun.


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## Kaiser878

Muskarp said:


> The bottom line is. If you rack hunters were as good as you think you are you wouldn't have to beg others not to shoot bucks. Do you really need that many out there to be successful? Watch out bambi, you got 11 days to find a spot to hide!


I dont have to think I am good, For the past 5 years the Pope & Young club and Buckey Big Buck club have sent me a certificate to remind me of it. 

I shoulda known you were a gun hunter, but your last sentence explains it all!


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## Kaiser878

Muskarp said:


> If I had three months off in the summer and a month for the holidays maybe I would blow up my ego by chasing a brute. But I don't. And don't kid yourself 90% of hunting is luck. The other 10 is private land. BTW. I know I'm good. I don't have to ask other hunters to pass on one so I can get it.


You know, its funny how the same people are consistently lucky year after year after year! I have several buddies who kill P&Y whitetails on public land every year, and a some BBC deer. WHat did telegraph hill produce this year at wayne??? It must have been tied to a tree, huh? Im quite confident I could hunt the same public ground you do and kill a mature deer.

I think the people who call the hunters "lucky" that kill big bucks regularly are saying it out of spite and jelousy. Its ok Muskarp, you too may get lucky someday, that is if you can leave the 1.5 y/o deer alone!!


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## Kaiser878

River Anglin said:


> This is a really interesting disagreement. The folks who have access to great properties see it one way. The folks who are stuck with public or "deer-limited" properties see it another way.
> QUOTE]
> 
> SO your saying if I hunted public land I Would lower my standards?? I dont think I would!


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## misfit

> SO your saying if I hunted public land I Would lower my standards?? I dont think I would!


i doubt that's what he meant.he may see it as i do.you can more easily meet your goals of consistently taking big deer when you have time and access to quality private property that is beyond the reach of many people.if you didn't have that advantage,you would have to work lots longer and harder for those same trophies.
judging from the number of big bucks you claim to have killed,i doubt you could dulicate that success just anywhere,no matter how good you are


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## Muskarp

Kaiser878 said:


> I dont have to think I am good, For the past 5 years the Pope & Young club and Buckey Big Buck club have sent me a certificate to remind me of it.
> 
> I shoulda known you were a gun hunter, but your last sentence explains it all!


As much as you stroke your own ego I'm surprised you have time to let P&Y or BBC have a turn.


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## Kaiser878

misfit said:


> i doubt that's what he meant.he may see it as i do.you can more easily meet your goals of consistently taking big deer when you have time and access to quality private property that is beyond the reach of many people.if you didn't have that advantage,you would have to work lots longer and harder for those same trophies.
> judging from the number of big bucks you claim to have killed,i doubt you could dulicate that success just anywhere,no matter how good you are


Claim? No claims, I can prove it to you all day long! Besides, Im not married to you, I dont have to lie to you! I have shot several of my deer on several different properties. Just tonight I hunted behind my house with my buddy. I never hunt behind my house, maybe two times a year. We passed on a 120 inch 2.5 y/o, and we almost sealed the deal on a 3.5 y/o 8 that woulda went 135ish. I was running the camera and he was shooting. You can kill big bucks anywhere, you just need to put a little time in and be able to find what the deer are doing and why they are doing it.

Time is essential, you got me there! Although private property is not out of reach for anyone. Unless they have such terrible social skills that it hinders their ability to talk to land owners! I think a lot of it is people are to lazy to go ask a land owner. I have permission on several properties, I do something for for each land owner every year. Last year I weed eated (sp) the one guys lane back to his lake, it took almsot all day because the lane was so long. Some things go a long way. THe main farm I deer hunt at I go out all winter and help with the cattle. All summer i bail hay with him. There is more to it than jsut being "lucky." You are gonig to get out of it what you put into it. Unfortunately there are too many guys out there that want it all but are too lazy to put the work thats involved into it.

Here is an example of a public land buck!! Seems to me he put less time into shooting this deer than I did into shooting my deer this year, and he shot it on public ground! Ya there is a mtter of luck involved, but he did his homework and figured out where the deer were hiding. Notice there deer is much older than 1.5y/o.










Here is another public land buck another buddy of mine killed. Hmmm.... this one is older than 1.5 y/o too.










Some public land is better to hunt than most private land. THere are pieces of private land that seldom get touched. Why? Because they require a little work to get to, and your average hunter doesnt want to put the effort required into it!


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## Kaiser878

Muskarp said:


> As much as you stroke your own ego I'm surprised you have time to let P&Y or BBC have a turn.


Not stroking my ego, just replying to your slanderous retort! Besides, its not an ego, its confidence! Ask anyone who knows me at all and they will tell you I am the most modest about killing big deer of all their friends! But it almost hurts to bite my tounge when hearing know it alls like yourself running thier gums about something they obviously know nothing about! I am all about getting all my buddies big deer. Thats why one of my buddies was hunting with me tongiht!


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## wildman

Patriot1 U R right on Darron so r u, but a little over bored on the embarrassment part. I,m proud of what ever I am able to take. But with that being said. I also understand where your coming from. I feel like I cheated my self and the young deer of a few years of life. now that sounds hokey but again With the # of deer out there its up to us as hunters to aim towards quality deer management. I do believe that shooting a mature buck is not all luck and I do not believe its not 90&#37; luck. I would say 50 % at the most. There is food plots, preseason scouting, scent reduction years of Quality deer management and so on. I am willing to make an assumption that a lot of the people that are not so fond of people that challenge them self's by going after a mature buck R new hunters or either have never shot one. Which is not a bad thing it just lets them know that after you hunt for a while you my challenge your self & your thought on this topic may change or not. Then you will get old and you will just like deer camp like my Grandfather. I'm not b*tching about it I'm just giving an opinion.
Do I lay up at night about this topic, Not even for a minute If someone shots a small deer as there first Well congrads just like in life you mature and grow as a hunter. And i know I don't need a big deer to stroke the ego I am proud of my self to be able to be granted with the opportunity for the chance and am proud that I was able to seal the deal. That is where the fello hunters that congratulate me or whom ever it is comes to play. For we all know how much time is put in to successfully do it more than once and how hard it is to seal the deal on a mature deer when bow hunting, gun hunting or crossbow hunting. If you don't see that then I do not know what else to say. Its all about quality deer management. I have degree in Fish and Wild Life Management and that is what I was taught and that is what we all should strive for whether its deer, pheasant, turkey, bass, or walleye it's to manage the habitat to produce quality animals. By doing that is to let small bucks go to maturity. Kaiser nice deer my bigest deer was taken on public land if I knew how to post it I would.


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## Kaiser878

wildman said:


> Patriot1 U R right on Darron so r u, but a little over bored on the embarrassment part. I,m proud of what ever I am able to take. But with that being said. I also understand where your coming from. I feel like I cheated my self and the young deer of a few years of life. now that sounds hokey but again With the # of deer out there its up to us as hunters to aim towards quality deer management. I do believe that shooting a mature buck is not all luck and I do not believe its not 90% luck. I would say 50 % at the most. There is food plots, preseason scouting, scent reduction years of Quality deer management and so on. I am willing to make an assumption that a lot of the people that are not so fond of people that challenge them self's by going after a mature buck R new hunters or either have never shot one. Which is not a bad thing it just lets them know that after you hunt for a while you my challenge your self & your thought on this topic may change or not. Then you will get old and you will just like deer camp like my Grandfather. I'm not b*tching about it I'm just giving an opinion.
> Do I lay up at night about this topic, Not even for a minute If someone shots a small deer as there first Well congrads just like in life you mature and grow as a hunter. And i know I don't need a big deer to stroke the ego I am proud of my self to be able to be granted with the opportunity for the chance and am proud that I was able to seal the deal. That is where the fello hunters that congratulate me or whom ever it is comes to play. For we all know how much time is put in to successfully do it more than once and how hard it is to seal the deal on a mature deer when bow hunting, gun hunting or crossbow hunting. If you don't see that then I do not know what else to say. Its all about quality deer management. I have degree in Fish and Wild Life Management and that is what I was taught and that is what we all should strive for whether its deer, pheasant, turkey, bass, or walleye it's to manage the habitat to produce quality animals. By doing that is to let small bucks go to maturity. Kaiser nice deer my bigest deer was taken on public land if I knew how to post it I would.



Well said. 
Unfortunately that is not my deer, THat is a gorgeous 8pt isnt it? Both of those guys are good friends of mine. Both hunt public land regularly. Both are very successful hunters! Public land houses some very large whitetails!


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## wildman

What part of the state?


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## Kaiser878

wildman said:


> What part of the state?


umm around tusc, stark, summit, and holmes counties


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## BassBlaster

Hmmm, Berlin maybe?


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## Kaiser878

BassBlaster said:


> Hmmm, Berlin maybe?


Now I cant say where they shot the deer at! haha I will tell you it was not berlin though!


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## misfit

> Claim? No claims, I can prove it to you all day long! Besides, Im not married to you, I dont have to lie to you!


now don't pampers all bunched up and take the word "claimed" out of context.i never for a minute,meant that you were lying.if i had meant that,i would have said it straight out.
what i said is you will find it much harder to kill big bucks every year in unfamiliar places with fewer big deer if you don't put in the time and effort in.yes,there are quality bucks around,but you yourself just said the same thing i did.it takes lots of work and some luck.
because i look at things in a different way does not mean i have anything against trophy hunting/hunters.in fact i respect them for give them credit because i know what it takes to go one on one with wiley old bucks and outwit them at their own game.and gun hunters are no different.the weapon doesn't make the hunter.in fact some gun hunters could show you what true trophy hunting is.go somewhere that harbors very few big bucks and spend weeks patterning,then days tracking/stalking a particular deer in freezing temps,blowing snow,etc, hoping you're good enough and lucky enough to finally get that one shot.
think of that next time you're sitting in your stand just waiting for ol mossy horns to come swaggering down that well worn trail and walk under your tree


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## BassBlaster

Kaiser878 said:


> Now I cant say where they shot the deer at! haha I will tell you it was not berlin though!


No worries, I live in Columbus, I'm not hunting those areas anyhow. I just read an article about Berlin in Ohio Game and Fish so those counties rang a bell!!


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## wildman

I was just wondering. I'm from Cincinnati and I hunt there but I also hunt on public land in Athens. Which is my favorite place to hunt But unfortunately some of us have to work. I don't get to go there to much. I hunt private land in Cincinnati some urban and some not. The urban deer is like shooting fish in a barrel But the big ones seem to be harder to hunt than some public land. Its kind of weird. I know guys that feed them which makes it easy but I don't chose that path.


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## Muskarp

Kaiser878 said:


> Well said.
> Unfortunately that is not my deer,


This was a thread that was started to ask hunters to let bucks walk so others can put something on the wall and demoralize people that do not share their viewpoints. And somehow you managed to post your buddies photos to make others think your arguement is valid. Nobody is argueing that public land doesn't have nice bucks. It's your side that was telling everybody that if we didn't pass them up there would never be any out there. But I guess they do exist. Thanks for clarifying what we already knew.


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## Kaiser878

Muskarp said:


> This was a thread that was started to ask hunters to let bucks walk so others can put something on the wall and demoralize people that do not share their viewpoints. And somehow you managed to post your buddies photos to make others think your arguement is valid. Nobody is argueing that public land doesn't have nice bucks. It's your side that was telling everybody that if we didn't pass them up there would never be any out there. But I guess they do exist. Thanks for clarifying what we already knew.




No I was just showing you that big bucks can consistently be killed on public land! Since you said killing a big deer was 90&#37; luck, and 10% private land! THats what you said rt??? Imagine if you had shot one of these deer when they were 1.5. They would be amongst your pile of 29inch deer instead of at the taxidermist now as 130+ inch deer! Sorry muskarp, your point isnt valid. I have proof of trophies from public land. What do you have, an old wisetail you heard at a West Virginian deer camp? You wanna kill baby deer, go to Wv where its accepted!

And also, since when is putting a deer on the wall demoralizing other hunters???? Sounds liek sour grapes to me!


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## Kaiser878

wildman said:


> I was just wondering. I'm from Cincinnati and I hunt there but I also hunt on public land in Athens. Which is my favorite place to hunt But unfortunately some of us have to work. I don't get to go there to much. I hunt private land in Cincinnati some urban and some not. The urban deer is like shooting fish in a barrel But the big ones seem to be harder to hunt than some public land. Its kind of weird. I know guys that feed them which makes it easy but I don't chose that path.


Oh I understand the work thing. 2 jobs! 1 full time 1 part time. Im a resp therapist. I have heard good things about berlin though. Athens has some hogs to!


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## misfit

> Im a resp therapist.


can you get my lungs working again?if so,i could get back out in the woods and demonstrate the art of trophy hunting old style


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## Lundy

Kaiser878 said:


> You wanna kill baby deer, go to Wv where its accepted!


The taking of younger bucks in Ohio is and has been very accepted by the majority of hunters, it is the minority of hunters that practice some form of QDM as it relates to a deers age. I personally would love to see a 1 year suspension of taking ANY antlered deer in Ohio to help get the buck to doe ratio back in a more stabilized position, but that is not reality. I don't own the resource, all hunters own the resource and have the same rights for utilization within established laws.


No one can disagree that the only way a deer reaches maturity is to not have it die at a younger age by hunting or other means. I'm sure that almost every hunter would prefer to take a mature buck versus a younger buck. I am just as sure that the driving force motivating every hunter and the measurement of hunting success, of each, is not measured in inches of antler, entirely

Young bucks have been getting harvested at very high ratios to the total buck population for years and years in Ohio, yet Ohio remains one of the top states to take a large, high scoring, mature buck. If Ohio went to a managanged minimum size antler regulation would there be more BBC bucks in Ohio? I don't know but probably not. There would still be the same number of bucks taken yearly(after a two years decline as younger bucks mature to harvest-able size) as a ratio to the total deer population, but the average "score" of inches of antlers would increase. How much increase? who knows. maybe the average legal 8 point scores 110-120. The same number of these now legal 8's get blown up each year as the forks and baskets that get blown up now. There is no measurable net gain in the "trophy" class that the minority of hunters seek.

I don't think anyone cares what you elect to hunt, if you are a "trophy" hunter that's great. The problem comes when you try and force everyone into your way of thinking or they are labeled as wrong, or ignorant, or poor hunters, etc, etc. 

If you want to try and effect real change and a movement to your way of thinking please spend your time lobbying the DOW with facts and beliefs that support your position for change. Please don't attack or belittle fellow hunters that own the resources of Ohio at the same vested interest as you do.

Thanks,
Kim


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## crittergitter

I agree with Kaiser about public land bucks and it seems to me some of you others have done some back peddling. Public land produces nice bucks all over the state. I love it when guys say.....what county? Your county has them to! Most public land areas can produce a nice trophy buck(meaning 3.5 yrs old). I don't have any problem with any hunter shooting a young buck if that is what he wants to do. However, I hate hearing of guys passing on 3, 4, or 5 doe so he can shoot a 1.5 yr old buck. That aint no big triumph in the deer hunting woods. Shooting a 3.5 to 4.5 yr old doe is a bigger challenge and likely provides just as much meat as that scrub rack buck if not more. If you want meat on the table and have a chance at a doe, then the logical thing to do is to shoot the doe. If want a buck just to say you shot a buck then that is fine, but we are all entitled to our own opinion and I will tell you mine. I don't like it. I do think less of you as a hunter. So what. If I went out and kept every 10-12" bass(where legal) I caught most fishing sportsmen would have plenty of criticism for me. So what. That's their opinion. I won't tell others how to hunt or expect every hunter to see things my way. However, if we all want better deer hunting and a better, healthier overall deer herd then there are measures we can take to get there.


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## Seaturd

Kaiser878 said:


> I dont have to think I am good, For the past 5 years the Pope & Young club and Buckey Big Buck club have sent me a certificate to remind me of it.
> 
> I shoulda known you were a gun hunter, but your last sentence explains it all!


Uh, not to go off topic but is there something inferior about being a gun hunter?


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## wildman

Some people think that being just a gun hunter or a cross bow hunter Does not make you a cool kid. U are less then cool. I Hunt using then all but unlike most people I perfer shooting a gun wheather a muzzy or a shot gun. If someone put this as a threed then it would be a lot like this thread controversial. I also do alot of deer drives during gun season. That is fround upon. I think its tradition at deer camp.


Now kaiser and I agree on quit a lot of things. But I have a feeling not on this, I could be wrong. And that doesn't make either of us wright of wrong. That,s what is so nice about America. We all can have an opinion!! And not be arrested for it.


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## Lewis

Not to stir the pot,but a question???
Do you think either of those bucks you posted of your buddies deer will make BBC or P&Y?


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## nicklesman

This is a great post. Right now I am one of those brown down guys. I have only been hunting six years so far so I have some killing to get out of my system. My heart still races when I see deer in the woods. I do hope one day to eventually become a mature deer hunter but for now I have fun doing what I do. But I find it extremely offensive that some people would say I am not a real hunter. I put a lot of time and money in my hunting. It almost cost me a divorce. Thank god though it did not, but for someone to say I am less then another is just wrong. I dont think any less of any one else no matter what they shoot legally and I hope to god I carry this over when I do make the transaction to becoming a mature deer hunter. I think it is great to see the smile on anyones face when they take a deer no matter the size. This is the point of hunting right to make yourself happy. I just wish some people would feel this way too. I feel it is a great accomplishment to take a deer. I congragulate anyone I see with a deer. I am one of those guys when I go hunting to throw out an offer to help when I see someone dragging a deer out. I can take time out of my hunt to lend a hand. Some people just need to lighten up a little and have fun and realize that us people that shoot smaller deer have fun too. good luck to all no matter what they choose to harvest.


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## Lewis

Good post nicklesman!
I think most guys who make hunting a way of life go through different stages as a hunter.
When I first started hunting I measured my hunts on how many deer I could kill,basically "if its brown its down"
I filled every available tag,in every available season,often times in several states.
The pressure to kill a deer was immense.
Then it moved into it had to be a buck,any buck small or large.

My excitement for hunting began to wane,so I reached the stage many years ago that I just hunt for myself,and hunting became so much more rewarding.
I sit back and wait for a decent buck to come under my stand,and if it doesnt,no big deal.
I have passed on at least 12 different bucks this season alone.
The strange part? It sometimes seems much more rewarding letting the smaller bucks walk than to arrow a big one.
I try to take a doe or two every year because I enjoy venison.

I am very fortunate to own some good private land to hunt,but this was not always the case.

As Lundy said earlier..Hunt for yourself,shoot what makes you happy as long as it is within the law.
It's all good!


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## Mushijobah

These last two posts seem like a great conclusion to a big messy discussion!


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## ohfisherman

big j-- as soon as they develop a way to catch and release deer i am sure i will try it out. i think the closest that i have been is photography--still get the trophy shot and the deer walks away. good luck to everybody regardless.


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## Kaiser878

Lewis said:


> Not to stir the pot,but a question???
> Do you think either of those bucks you posted of your buddies deer will make BBC or P&Y?


I know for a fact that the first 8pt will make P&Y. It is borderline BBC. Although, I am quite positive it will go BBC, its probably gonna score rt at the minimum of 140, I will let you know when the final score comes in. The second one might not make either, but I know it will gross rt around 130. It wont make BBC for sure, but P&Y is gonna be iffy because of all the deductions. Although, regardless they are both deer 3.5 y/o or older. Id say the second is 3.5, but the first is 4.5 id say, perhaps 5.5.


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## Kaiser878

wildman said:


> Some people think that being just a gun hunter or a cross bow hunter Does not make you a cool kid. U are less then cool. I Hunt using then all but unlike most people I perfer shooting a gun wheather a muzzy or a shot gun. If someone put this as a threed then it would be a lot like this thread controversial. I also do alot of deer drives during gun season. That is fround upon. I think its tradition at deer camp.
> 
> 
> Now kaiser and I agree on quit a lot of things. But I have a feeling not on this, I could be wrong. And that doesn't make either of us wright of wrong. That,s what is so nice about America. We all can have an opinion!! And not be arrested for it.


I suppose I do come across as a bit biased towards bow hunting. Perhaps thats because its where my true passion lies. I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, I too have been known to go out and help with drives. Ill carry a gun and wack a doe if the opportunity presents itself. I think driving deer is a blast, although I have never been a "sitter." Mostly because I have always had my buck for the year. Although every one I hunt with wont shoot anything unless it is a 3.5 y/o deer. Last year I shot a doe with my Muzzleloader. 

I say this because you look at the majority of the bucks taken during gun and what do you see??? I have helped at a check in station, from my personal experience for every mature buck you see, you will see about 5 or 6 1.5 y/o. Drive down the road during gun season, look whats on the top of most peoples cars! I bet you will count way more 1.5 y/o than you will mature deer. Im not saying there is anything wrong with gun, just saying a lot of baby bucks get taken because thats what presents itself!


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## Kaiser878

misfit said:


> can you get my lungs working again?if so,i could get back out in the woods and demonstrate the art of trophy hunting old style


The first thing ill tell you to do is quit smoking!!!! haha


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## misfit

> The first thing ill tell you to do is quit smoking!!!! haha


haha.too late for that advise


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## Kaiser878

misfit said:


> haha.too late for that advise


You can teach old dog new tricks you know! hahaha


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## TheKing

MuskieMan35 said:


> FloridaFish-
> I agree with you and I choose to take 3-1/2 yr old bucks or older.
> next year I am vowing to my buddies that I'm only going for
> a 4-1/2 or one bigger then my 150 class 8 pt.
> But in my opinion, any deer with a bow is a trophy.


Well put MuskieMan,
Getting within 25 yards, oh yeah! With a bow, gun, camera, or a beer in a comfortable chair, a trophy every single time to be sure. Bow range on a wild whitetail is where it is at!


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## wildman

I meant no offense with that Kaiser I just figured that you were a die hard bow hunter. Which is just great. I used to be one to and I enjoyed it to the max. and now. time is limited I coach soccer in the fall but I still get out 20 times a year. I wait for hunting season and especially for deer camp and all the camp life. Well now that I think about it I believe that It's just hunting in general that i love. Whether its deer to fowl fall is my favorite time of year.


I think some of the people that are on this tread think that there are acually people that are getting worked up on this. That people like you and i are trying to change other hunters change the way they hunt when actually we are merely suggesting that they take a doe instead of a small buck. I don't care one way or another and I sure u don't either. Back in the 60'S it was buck only for 2 days. If you got a buck you were the cool kid. Now we a lucky enough to have plenty of deer. and we r just suggesting that we as hunters start working on the quality now that we have the #'s. either way there are plenty of deer for all of us. One 9 days away!!!!

Who thinks the Bengals R going to win another game?


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## Kaiser878

wildman said:


> I meant no offense with that Kaiser I just figured that you were a die hard bow hunter. Which is just great. I used to be one to and I enjoyed it to the max. and now. time is limited I coach soccer in the fall but I still get out 20 times a year. I wait for hunting season and especially for deer camp and all the camp life. Well now that I think about it I believe that It's just hunting in general that i love. Whether its deer to fowl fall is my favorite time of year.
> 
> 
> I think some of the people that are on this tread think that there are acually people that are getting worked up on this. That people like you and i are trying to change other hunters change the way they hunt when actually we are merely suggesting that they take a doe instead of a small buck. I don't care one way or another and I sure u don't either. Back in the 60'S it was buck only for 2 days. If you got a buck you were the cool kid. Now we a lucky enough to have plenty of deer. and we r just suggesting that we as hunters start working on the quality now that we have the #'s. either way there are plenty of deer for all of us. One 9 days away!!!!
> 
> Who thinks the Bengals R going to win another game?



Thank you!!!! Someone finally understands me and what I am trying to get across!

I wish I could get involved in a good deer camp. I think it would make for some great memories!


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## Darron

crittergitter said:


> I agree with Kaiser about public land bucks and it seems to me some of you others have done some back peddling. Public land produces nice bucks all over the state. I love it when guys say.....what county? Your county has them to! Most public land areas can produce a nice trophy buck(meaning 3.5 yrs old). I don't have any problem with any hunter shooting a young buck if that is what he wants to do. *However, I hate hearing of guys passing on 3, 4, or 5 doe so he can shoot a 1.5 yr old buck. That aint no big triumph in the deer hunting woods. Shooting a 3.5 to 4.5 yr old doe is a bigger challenge and likely provides just as much meat as that scrub rack buck if not more.* If you want meat on the table and have a chance at a doe, then the logical thing to do is to shoot the doe. *If want a buck just to say you shot a buck then that is fine, but we are all entitled to our own opinion and I will tell you mine. I don't like it. I do think less of you as a hunter. * So what. If I went out and kept every 10-12" bass(where legal) I caught most fishing sportsmen would have plenty of criticism for me. So what. That's their opinion. I won't tell others how to hunt or expect every hunter to see things my way. However, if we all want better deer hunting and a better, healthier overall deer herd then there are measures we can take to get there.


I like the way you think critter gitter


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## Fishstix

As I've stated before, I am a mature buck hunter. Only, I am willing to take a 2.5 year old buck if the rack is 8 points and outside the ears. Often times though, I pass on these bucks early and don't get opportunities at them later in the year. It doesn't matter to me if I get a buck or not, but come muzzleloading, I will take a 2.5 if it meets my standards and the opportunity presents itself.

I don't mind what other hunters shoot. It is their legal right to fill their tags with whatever buck they want to. The main thing I am getting from this is that...hunters who practice QDM do feel it is important to let bucks pass so they can reach maturity. I do think it is important to discuss this with all hunters. You may catch some peoples attention with the information you are sharing. But the most important thing is to not come across as belittling other hunters. Just let them know why you do what you do and that is all that needs to be said. If they buy into the idea, then great, if not, then atleast they are aware of the idea.

I will tell you that when I began passing on little bucks, I did begin to see more bigger bucks in the area I hunt. For one, I believe this is because I wasn't taking a 1.5 year old buck off our property each year. Most importantly, by passing on the smaller bucks, I was able to spend more time in the woods, which presented more opportunities to see these bigger bucks.

Good luck to all over the next couple of weeks. Be safe and patient and it will all pay off in the end.


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## vc1111

To see the results of what shooting "any buck" can do for the herd, all one has to do is look at the results PA had prior to antler restrictions...which had to be imposed to get the buck to doe ratio back to some type of more earthly numbers. The prevalent mindset put "racks" on the wall that sometimes measured in the teens...year after year. It was considered poor form to even consider killing a doe..."you're killing three deer, when you kill a doe." 

Funny that no one wanted to address the parallel I posed to bass and musky fishing. If people were eating every bass or musky they caught because it is "legal" to do so, would your reaction be the same? From what I've read on various boards for years, the answer is an almost universal resounding "no."

Considering the fact that one could conceivably kill up to 6 does in Ohio in 2008, the author of this thread made a very simple point...if your point is simply to kill something, anything, kill a doe. It is also true, as others have stated that if you don't let the small bucks walk, they simply do not grow up. Again, look at Pennsylvania to see the previous results of not being a man unless you kill something with horns on its head.

Of course, as I said previously, it is also obvious that no one is swayed by these discussions. I could write them before I've even read them; that's how predictable the responses are from year to year. 

In my book, you can do whatever is legal, it is your personal choice and I understand that completely. But I will also quietly maintain that if I want some wild fish or game for table fare, I'll eat crappie and does. I will try to show respect for those that enjoy game fishing and trophy hunting.

It is also very interesting to note that those who try to sort of educate others about the benefits of releasing what is now considered "game fish" are not mocked for doing so.


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## wildman

Well kaiser We will be in Wayne national forest On opening day. Yes I have privet land but we keep up with tradition. Some years there are 10 -15 guys. Other years like this one ( money shortage ) there will only be 4 - 5 of us but most importantly My 84 year old Grandfather goes and he never misses it. He's more about deer camp but he does get out when the weather is decent. In my book to many people are to rapped up in killing big bucks or deer are in my back year Y leave and spend money. As you said it's tradition and it makes memory's. When I was a kid I remember hearing the stories of past camps and thinking how cool it must of been. Not to mention u see a different side of your elders at deer camp. The accountant uncle is a little less reserved and the wild uncle is a little more serious. 

That kind of atmosphere is price less.


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## quacker835

After reading some post and skimming the rest. I am disgusted. U people sound like our soon to be government. Telling people what to shoot and not shoot. How to feel and not feel. I've been deerhunting for 4 years now. Seen lots of does a handfull of bucks and two to three trophys. Just harvested my first deer Friday night. It was a small doe. Alot smaller than it looked from my stand, but thats not what its about for me. Its that startled feeling when a deer sneaks up on you. Or the way u have to sloooowly turn your head to see them. Or how they stare at u when your on stand and u swear they can see through your soul. It's how your freinds or family ask you in a excited voice if you saw any tonight. What im getting at is its the little things of hunting that make me feel like a real hunter.


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## FloridaFishTransplant

Congrats on the first deer and many more to come I am sure. And they all are a "little" smaller once you get out of the stand trust me. I think they call it ground effect. Once again congrats !%


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## Seaturd

quacker835 said:


> After reading some post and skimming the rest. I am disgusted. U people sound like our soon to be government. Telling people what to shoot and not shoot. How to feel and not feel. I've been deerhunting for 4 years now. Seen lots of does a handfull of bucks and two to three trophys. Just harvested my first deer Friday night. It was a small doe. Alot smaller than it looked from my stand, but thats not what its about for me. Its that startled feeling when a deer sneaks up on you. Or the way u have to sloooowly turn your head to see them. Or how they stare at u when your on stand and u swear they can see through your soul. It's how your freinds or family ask you in a excited voice if you saw any tonight. What im getting at is its the little things of hunting that make me feel like a real hunter.



Good post and congrats on your first deer. It's stupid for a bunch of hunters to be bickering about legal aspects of the sport in a public forum. It's the anti's and the poachers we should be ganging up on - not each other.


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## One Legged Josh

Seaturd said:


> Good post and congrats on your first deer. It's stupid for a bunch of hunters to be bickering about legal aspects of the sport in a public forum. It's the anti's and the poachers we should be ganging up on - not each other.


"EXACTLY"!


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