# *Snagged* The World Record Sauger today(I think)....



## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

I always thought there would be a time when I would make a post like this...minus the snagged part that is... Anyway it shows just how good of a fishery the Scioto CAN be....Now this may not be the world record....however it is extremely close....Going by my rapala scale it went nearly 9lbs.& 27 3/4'.The current world record is 8 pounds, 12 ounces.
Im not 100% sure it is a Sauger...but look at it.....it looks like a shark, or a saugeye that got smacked on the skull with a 2x4...lol..Also there is no white blotch on the Caudal fin, only a small white line. 
I tried in vein to revive her, but after 4 or 5 minutes she still couldn't swim away ..btw I only had her out of the water for a minute max..snapped a pic took a measurement and sent her swimin'..Hopefully she's still out there


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## atrkyhntr (May 31, 2004)

nice pic man...


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## twistertail (Apr 10, 2004)

WOW! Nice fish man I cant tell for sure if its a sauger or saugeye but either way that is a nice fish. Looks like the river is pretty high.


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## nomore3putts (Apr 15, 2004)

Ack - from your previous posts, thought you fished mostly by Griggs. From the pic, this appears to be the section along 670 between Grandview Ave and Olentangy River junction? How the heck you get down there?

Heck of a fish, hope it survived too...


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## FishJunky (May 20, 2004)

Real nice fish. Congrats.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

have the odnr look at that, see if its a saugeye...if its not, wow!!! if it is....NICE SAUGEYE!


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## Snyd (May 5, 2004)

Acklac7 - Great fish. Growing up on the Ohio River I have caught several sauger but most of them were any where from 1lb to 3lbs. Its really hard to tell from the picture but it sure looks like a sauger to me. Either way its a very nice catch.


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Very nice fish !!! THE CATKING !!!


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## striperfreak (Apr 30, 2004)

nice fish ack, unfortunately it appears to be a saugeye. only assuming by the looks of it.


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## fishingredhawk (Apr 14, 2004)

Good job Ack, I was gonna hit that spot tomorrow! I can't tell either. Did you take any closeups? PM me if your looking for some company


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

striper at first I thought it was a Saugeye...I was in a mad rush to get it back to the water as fast as I could, since I snagged it and really tired it out. I didn't get really get a good look untill I loaded the pic on to my computer. I looked at it and said...."Wait a minute....something doesn't look right...this is definitely a strange Saugeye" Then I noticed that there wasn't a white blotch on the caudal....And began to think that it was likely a pure Sauger. Now i'll never no for sure, but look at the picture from the odnr website and then look at the supposed sauger....both look very very similar...then look at the obvious Saugeye...with the big white blotch on the tail and a more rounded body...Also notice the green on the saugeye and the grey on the suspect fish...At any rate it would still have been a nice catch IF i didn't foul hook it (still upset ) any hopefully I'll get her agian....Here is the Saugeye...


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Sauger from the ODNR website...


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Suspect Sauger...


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## fishingredhawk (Apr 14, 2004)

I vote sauger


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## Parrothead (Apr 15, 2004)

My vote is for saugeye on this one. Nice fish though. The white spot kinda gives it away.


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## lureboy98 (Aug 24, 2004)

Either way congratulations on the nice snag...


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

It's a great fish, but the presence of any white spot on the tail would signify saugeye to me. I've never seen a sauger shaped like that either. Guess it doesn't matter now.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

I dunno what to think!! your right Magis it really doesn't matter, but it would be nice to think the Scioto produced a world record fish. As for the white spot I found this picture on the Montana odnr website, evidentely Saugers do have some white on there tail...just not a blotch...I don't want this to turn into a argument any and all comments are welcome, but in the end we will never know. If only I would have fair hooked it...then I could have had the State take a sample and I think they can tell for sure right?
http://fwp.state.mt.us/fieldguide/detail_AFCQC05010.aspx


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

A for-sure Sauger


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

And another suspect sauger caught from the Scioto in Dec. (my last pic I swear )


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## crankmaster (Mar 19, 2005)

That was a great fish, you may very well have had a new world-record.

As we all know, Walleyes, Saugeyes & Sauger change color at times, the diamond-back & sides coloration can come & go, it can be tough to tell for sure. I do know that the markings get much sharper if they've been in a livewell for 15-minutes or so, probably from stress, I think it's a form of camoflauge. I've caught lots of true-strain sauger from the Ohio River, I catch em' in the Fall though, when they're real fat. There's no mistaking them then. In the Spring or Winter, it can be a tough call between the 3 species.

Anyway, you sure snagged one nice Eye! I could tell by the smile on your face how happy it made you. I'd feel the same way! Good job.


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## walleye60 (Feb 13, 2005)

Hey nice fish,I used to fish for sauger all the time,at charles mill dam years ago.Until they were more or less gill netted out of there by cleveland people,coming down and taking burlap sacks full back up there and selling them.But the way I could always tell the difference between a sauger and a saugeye is the sauger didn`t have a white tip on the tail and had perfect little round dots on the fins.The saugeye has the white tip on the tail and no perfect round dots on the fins.I use to love fishing for those sauger,but now I have to fish for the saugeye.


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## striperfreak (Apr 30, 2004)

take me fishing acklac, and we can do some field tests.............fish has the shape of a sauger but the white tip tells me otherwise. have you caught many sauger out of scioto? i used to tear them up in the hocking river and on the ohio, once in a while we would catch a nice saugeye and walleye. most times the coloring was obvious, others we went by that white blotch on the tip of the tail........


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

if you caught it north of downtown it is very doubtful that it was a sauger


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## whitebass (Apr 18, 2004)

Could it be one of those cross breed saugeyes, I have heard about? It is a possibility !!!!!!!!!!


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

"Could it be one of those cross breed saugeyes, I have heard about? It is a possibility " I was thinking the samething whitebass, ethier that or I am catching saugeye's that express strange shape & color patters. Anyone on here got any sauger/saugeye pics laying around? Just be interesting to see how many have the white blotch, most of them do...especially the older ones.....Striperfreak I want to say I've caught a Sauger out of the Scioto but Im not sure....maybe there just strange lookin S-eyes.


Here's my last head scratcher.....I think im going to start calling them "Saug's" and end the confusion...lol


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

North or south of downtown will clear up a lot....


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## striperfreak (Apr 30, 2004)

true mushi, i dont believe they would get over greenlawn and main


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## buckeye79 (May 8, 2004)

i would say the 1st pic is definitely a saugeye..the last 2 you posted could very well be sauger...sauger have very pronounced black dots on the dorsal running all the way up


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## Corey (Apr 5, 2004)

I've tried to stay out of this, lol, but I just can't. I've typed this info so many times that I just didn't want to get into it. The one fact that everyone seems to ignore is that Saugeyes carry the color genes from both parents and _can_ look _identical_ to either. Most States where Saugeyes have been stocked find that even well trained hatchery personnel have about a 10% error rate when trying to indentify pure bred Walleyes or Saugers, by their physical characteristics, in waters where Saugeyes are also present. In waters where they both live, the only sure way to tell the difference is by mitochondrial DNA testing. While the vast majority look like Saugeye should, out of thousands of eggs, the odds are that some can look like Mom, or some like Dad.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

Corey said:


> The one fact that everyone seems to ignore is that Saugeyes carry the color genes from both parents and _can_ look _identical_ to either. Most States where Saugeyes have been stocked find that even well trained hatchery personnel have about a 10% error rate when trying to indentify pure bred Walleyes or Saugers, by their physical characteristics, in waters where Saugeyes are also present. In waters where they both live, the only sure way to tell the difference is by mitochondrial DNA testing. While the vast majority look like Saugeye should, out of thousands of eggs, the odds are that some can look like Mom, or some like Dad.


 I was thinking the same thing but I am glad you said it rather than me. It is true that they look so similar that it is not easy at all to identify. Heck even bass will vary in appearance, some appearing darker than others. Some have more distinct lateral lines. Some even have a slightly different shape. I know I woul dnot want to be putting any of my money on whether I could identify a sauger from saugeye.


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## got_a_buzz_on (Mar 17, 2005)

it seems that no has thought of the fact that there might be some saugers that have bred with saugeyes. being that from what i have been told and read that saugeyes arent totally non reproducers....its just something else that they cant breed with each other. so i guess i look at it as its not what kind it is ........its how you cook them that matters. maybe that thing is a crossbreed of a crossbreed. dont tell me they all dont reproduce. 

GABO


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Corey after doing some research (and remembering some of Mendel's inheritance stuff from Biology) I came to the same conclusions. There is alot of info out there that gives insight as to how to identify a Saugeye, but nearly all of it fails to note that there will be a small percentage that express different traits...FYI I didn't search this site...first (mistake). Anyway it still is a big strange looking fish, it would be interesting to see if s-eyes from Alum, Deer creek,etc have similar traits. Im guessing they do, its just that not alot of people have noticed. As for cross-breeding, I would bet that it IS indeed occuring in the scioto. There are (were) pure Sauger & Walleye are native to the river, along with flatheads, bluecats, Muskie, and anything else that wanted to swim up from the Ohio river. After the dams went in nothing could get past greenlawn, but surely there are still some pure sauger in the impounded sections of the Scioto (there is still small populations of Native Musky and Flatheads after all). And what are the chances a 1/2 sauger 1/2 walleye is going to meet in the same spawning area, and then spawn with a pure sauger? I would say there is a good chance, and I know from here it gets way more in depth as to what % off eggs are sterile etc, not to mention survivability rates. But I think it is probably occuring in the Scioto...and who knows, maybe in like 30 years we will have a new species of fish in the Scioto, fully capable of sustaining life......Also If anyone can talk to KB, he was telling me he used to catch some type of Sauger/Walleye in the below Griggs back in the 70's way before the stocking began.


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## got_a_buzz_on (Mar 17, 2005)

isnt that what i said in not so many words ackman????


GABO


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

lol...sorry Buzz....Im trying to post and write a paper for Econ at the same time...Im my "rough draft" of the post I had you quoted...but I came back and changed it...and forgot to give you credit....Indeed I said basically what you said...sorry


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## got_a_buzz_on (Mar 17, 2005)

no need to say your sorry. just making sure we were on the same page. and i think its the right page.......

GABO


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## CPTN.CROWN (Apr 11, 2004)

Nice fish man. Glad to see someone is out catching some. Cant wait till fall, that looks like when ill be able to get out again


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

There are native muskie north of the impoundments???? Where?!


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## Corey (Apr 5, 2004)

From the info that I get from OSU, dealing with studies done both here in Ohio and in other States, it's accepted that any body of water where Walleye and Sauger both live, and where spawning habitat overlaps, approximately 4% of the total 'Eye population will be naturally occuring Saugeyes. And yes, Saugeyes (F1 Hybrids) do indeed backbreed with either parent species, and the 1982 study by Hearn at OSU gives high numbers as far as percentages of "swim-up-fry for F1 to F1 breeding (Saugeye to Saugeye), much higher in fact, than the numbers for Saugeye to either parent backbreeding. The big problenm right now in research into Saugeye breeding is the difference between Diploid and Triploid Hybrids and what steps to take to actually raise sterile hybrids for stocking. Of the three main methods tested; application of heat, cold, and increased atmospheric pressure, at the egg stage, the increase in pressure has yeilded the best results but still nothing like 100%.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

dam Corey...where do you get all this info?...The internet?....Thanks I've learned alot .....Mushi the Muskies are in there, however they are extremely rare. They are the highest predator in the Scioto, so there aren't very many of them, just like there aren't very many flatheads (per section of river). I have also heard about Northern Pike being caught below O'shay...but have only heard that from a few people. The problem the Muskie face is lack/destruction of spawning habitat. After the dams went in most of there natural habitat was destroyed, and there numbers declined. But there are still some in there and every few years you will hear about someone catching one below Griggs, Waterworks, O'shay etc....Also look for slack pool like areas of the Scioto with alot of submerged trees, have a couple spots in mind however you would need a boat in order to fish them. and getting a boat in there is next to impossible ................Here is one caught above Griggs about a year or two ago.....Sorry If its a no-no to post someone elses pick...


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Thats amazing they still find a place to breed. It is very difficult for them to breed in such conditions, even for flatheads. It makes me happy tho and brings a tear to my eye.


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## mrfishohio (Apr 5, 2004)

How about you post the full size picture in the member's galleries, easy to do, just hit that photo gallery button above & then Submit New Photos. It will make it easier to tell. Maybe the dorsal fin will show up better.


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm going to go with Saugeye. Either way it's a very respectable fish. Congrats!


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## Corey (Apr 5, 2004)

I was extremely lucky when I first contacted OSU in hiope of getting up-to-date info on Saugeye stocking programs in Ohio. Jeffery Spolestra, then a graduate student, was on the team with Hearn for his study into egg viability of Walleye/Sauger hybrids in 1982. His (Spolestra's) doctoral thesis dealt with Saugeye breeding, and he had an intense interest in the syubject. He graciously took the time to make copies of all the studies he could find and sent them to me. He also sent a bibliography list and I have traced other pertinent studies and obtained copies. I keep them here at the shop for customers to read and to prove points. When I get time I'll post the bibliography and a list of the studies I still have. Also, I'm kind of obsessive when it comes to learning in general. I attended far to many colleges and for many years I audited classes at universities in areas where I was living. In Ohio I attended Mount Union, Walsh, Kent State, and the Columbus School of Art & Design, took my batchelors at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh, audited courses ranging from Political science to molecular biology at the University of Maryland (Eastern Shore), and the University of Delaware. Growing up, my Mother owned a restaurant and expected that I would eventually run it so I also hold a degree in Culinary Arts/Restaurant Management from the Lewis Institute in Washington, D.C.. I was just never really interested in doing that so it was wasted. I'm not nearly as obsessive about it as I used to be but I still tent to over research things when my interest is piqued.


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## got_a_buzz_on (Mar 17, 2005)

so with all this info did you find out if it was a sauger or a saugeye or a cross?????

GABO


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