# killing a doe with a fawn.



## ezbite

when do you do it? do you do it? tonight on the stand, i had a doe and fawn come within 15 yards of my tree in the first 30 minutes of straping in the climber on to the tree. i let them walk, thinking "this is gonna be a good night". i didnt see another thing but squirrels and chimpmunks until just before dark. i was getting ready to quit and climb down. first thing i always do is to quiver the arrow, so i did. then i took my pack off the hook, set in on the climbers seat, removed my release and as i was putting it in the pack, i saw movement off to my right. i looked and saw a mature doe about 60 some yards away walking at ease. i hit the can and she stopped and looked my way. i quickly put my release back on and nocked an arrow. it was really close to time to quit, so i started hitting the can very agressive, probably 7 or 8 times without stopping. she started moving my way, then all of a sudden, here comes this fawn from her direction heading right at my tree. ive never shot a doe with a fawn. the doe came in to about 30 yards, but i knew i wasnt going to shoot, so i just forgot about her, packed up and climbed down. it was dark when i got to the bottom of the tree, i could hear her storting at me and running all around my tree trying to check me out. i was on the ground packing the climber to carry out, so she couldnt see me in the underbrush. once i stood up and started walking she took off. for a moment i thought she was going to charge me, because she did get pretty close a few snorts. 

anyhow, do you kill doe with fawn? if so is there a timetable for it? id like to hear the pros and cons. by the way, this is a very heavily hunted public game lands. bow seasons not too bad, but when they say orange army, this place is where that name comes [email protected]


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## Snakecharmer

I couldn't kill a doe with a fawn. Although I haven''t seen them in a week of so I had a doe with 3 fawns in my yard most of the summer. If there running solo...BANG.


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## jamesbalog

I kill um, theyll be kicking the fawns away soon anyway

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## crappiewacka

If see was big, I wouldn't think twice. As long as the fawns were of decent size. The fawns, now, SHOULD be old enough to survive on their own. I am more hesitant AFTER rut, when they are impregnated. I would rather eat does and, sorry to say, 4- 6 month olds than any 2+ year old bucks especially during rut.
If you're hunting Green-tree swamp area, those does and yearlings are going to get shot anyway!
When the orange sea arrives all will turn red.

My son and I were in our buddy stand tonight when a doe and 2 fawns came in behind us. I was going to let him take one, but he turned WAY to quick around and mama busted him.


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## M.Magis

It&#8217;s not possible to kill a doe without a fawn, unless she&#8217;s already lost it/them. Fawns stay with the doe until she&#8217;s almost ready to give birth the following spring, but they can survive by themselves by mid July. If everyone was uncomfortable shooting a doe that still had fawns with her, deer would be thicker than mice at the feed store.


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## James30

I read a study one time that when a fawn is orphaned other does will take them in and raise them. Once they find each other the orphaned fawn will adapt to the new group and is accepted in. I on the other hand would not shoot mama if the fawn still has spots or if they are really small yet. But those are my standards and everyone is different.


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## bobk

I have done it in the past. I will not do it anymore. I just don't enjoy gutting the mom while the kids stand around wondering what the hell just happened. I guess I'm getting soft as I get older.


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## Lundy

bobk said:


> I have done it in the past. I will not do it anymore. I just don't enjoy gutting the mom while the kids stand around wondering what the hell just happened. I guess I'm getting soft as I get older.


Been there done that, no fun. The fawn followed us all the way to truck as we drug momma during a early bowhunt in PA

I am too old and soft to do that again. I don't take any does until gun season or late MZ season.

Just me.


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## Huntinbull

Generally, by the time bow season starts, fawns can live on their own. I think of it as emancipation. I am freeing the fawn from parental supervision.


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## DaleM

I am too old and soft to do that again. I don't take any does until gun season or late MZ season.
Just me.[/QUOTE said:


> I'm like Kim. I let does walk until later in the season. I have taken does many times, but never if they have a fawn with them.


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## Roadkil

My .02 is that the DNR has established liberal bag limits in certain areas for a reason, to reduce the deer population, as a result in my zone with an opportunity @ 6 I do not pass on deer. I have shot does with fawns before and I have shot the fawn that was with the mature doe simply because it was the only one giving a decent shot or the one that walked within range.

If I was in a zone that allowed only one or two deer tops then I may have a different mindset about it and may have let it walk, may have, but more than likely I wouldnt have. I hunt to put food on my table for my family and the age, sex, number of points the deer has, etc. does not enter into my thought process given the current bag limit in my zone; especially since I hunt solely on public hunting areas. If I see it and I can get a shot Im taking it.


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## crappiewacka

Roadkil said:


> My .02 is that the DNR has established liberal bag limits in certain areas for a reason, to reduce the deer population, as a result in my zone with an opportunity @ 6 I do not pass on deer. I have shot does with fawns before and I have shot the fawn that was with the mature doe simply because it was the only one giving a decent shot or the one that walked within range.
> 
> If I was in a zone that allowed only one or two deer tops then I may have a different mindset about it and may have let it walk, may have, but more than likely I wouldnt have. I hunt to put food on my table for my family and the age, sex, number of points the deer has, etc. does not enter into my thought process given the current bag limit in my zone; especially since I hunt solely on public hunting areas. If I see it and I can get a shot Im taking it.


Great point! The ODOW want the anterless deer killed, period.
I understand ethics, but as wildlife managers we are also responsible for control.
Better to bag one than seeing car accidents, with *"Roadkil"*...pun intended.


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## sherman51

im with most others, it doesnt really matter when you shoot a doe, they will usely have a fawn around somewhere unless they have been killed. by the time the season comes in the fawns are big enough to survive on there own. now there may be the very rare one where the doe got pregnate very late and had her young late. but these are very rare. so if im allowed to take a doe i will take her. and not feel bad about it. i also hunt public land, and dont always get alot of chances. i will even take a large fawn. i hunt for the meat. so a young deer will always tast better than a buck or license stew,LOL.

we were hunting pigeon river wildlife area some years back. we went in to the check station. they had this real small deer laying there. they said some guy brought it in and said he had made a mistake and would never hunt again. this was the middle of dec in our ml season. the deer only weighted 22 lbs. and that was whole, it hadnt been gutted or anything. it was still covered with spots. this was one of those late babies. i believe if it had been a man, that guy might have shot him. but our law in indiana for the ml season says any age any sex. so it was legal for him to shoot it. he taged the deer and brought it in, and said he didnt even want the deer. i think he just shot the first thing that moved.
sherman


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## Header

The earlier posts are right, the fawns stay around thru the hunting season. They also may get run off by mom during breeding, but find her later. Some doe yearlings even may breed the first year. I have limited myself to mature does & 6pt+ bucks, my choice. Yes I have had to chase fawns away from the doe I shot. Last year one hung out and only ran away as I was climbing down after 10 minutes. The first mature doe I took during gun season was still lactating(sp) she was the largest of the 3 does with several fawns. Down the hill from her, one of the fawns was taken. 20ft up a tree is hard to tell the size of the solo deer, check and compare the face & nose size with the ears. The larger the face the smaller the ears appear.


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## bkr43050

Just kill the fawns first. Problem solved! 

I have experienced the same thing on a few occasions with the yearlings hanging around. I can't say I am immune to it but I get through it. As previously mentioned all mature does will be joined by her yearlings throughout the season so it is unavoidable. And we all know that the herd needs controlled.


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## kprice

I wonder how that fawn feels that first night without it's mom being there? It has no idea what happened. That bond they have is very strong and something that is very interesting to watch. I personally never shoot a mom with her fawn....


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## Bowhunter57

It's deer season, not doe season, fawn season or buck season. They're all fair/legal game.

So, it's a personal preference.  Shoot what you want and be happy with your kill. 

Bowhunter57


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## M.Magis

kprice said:


> I wonder how that fawn feels that first night without it's mom being there? Trying to figure out all night what happened. That bond they have is very strong and something that is very interesting to watch. I personally never shoot a mom with her fawn....



Wild animals don't have human emotions.


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## 419deerhunter

Its a deer shoot. Hell i would shoot the fawn too if it was out of spots just like veal. Early season is a good time to thin some does out no reason to wait till after the rut is over or for mz season


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## JonathanShoemaker

"Just kill the fawns first. Problem solved"
I can't believe many of you aren't taking advantage of the early season harvest. YUMMMMMMMMY! So tender! Last year my daughter shot a fawn that weighed max 50 pounds before gutting. Still a trophy for her and a tag filled. Plus memories of the hunt together. We'll do it again this weekend if we're lucky enough. 
I expect that hunters who feel differently aren't eating baby cows and lambs either.


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## KVD jr.

A few years ago i had a doe and a fawn come in 1st week of bow. Well I said bang with my arrow and watched the doe run and crash while fawn ran off. Two days later same stand had a basket six with that fawn following so maybe they do adopt so quit feeling bad or quit hunting. Its all about putting meat on the table.


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## Blaze6784

I checked my trail cam last night (put it out on a new stand on Sunday). It looks like I have 2 familes in my area. A doe and 2 fawns, still with bright spots, and another doe and 1 fawn with fading spots. I am not sure if I would take a shot at one of the moms or not. I'm a meat hunter just looking to put some venison in the freezer, but I think it would be tough for me to let an arrow fly on the momma knowing she has late fawns around.


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## billk

I'd shoot either one without hesitating, but would opt for the little tenderoni if given an equal shooting opportunity.


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## stano

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by kprice 
I wonder how that fawn feels that first night without it's mom being there? Trying to figure out all night what happened. That bond they have is very strong and something that is very interesting to watch. I personally never shoot a mom with her fawn.... 


"Wild animals don't have human emotions. "


That's a bold statement.

If you or I'm actually hungry and don't have any food at home to feed our family...I'm shooting the doe and fawn.


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## 5Cent

I had this same dilemma Tuesday night in the stand. 15mins after it quit raining, I caught movement and a doe was coming in. Behind her were 2 fawns, and I thought twice. Then another doe was brining up the rear, and the arrow flew into the first....donno who's kids they were but one of yall just adopted em 

This was the earliest I have killed a doe and she had very very little milk in her. The fawns were darn near the height of her, just not fully filled out and have been out of spots for about a month and half now after looking at camera pictures. 

I have no hard feelings about this, in another 2 months, those fawns are going to get lead flung at them by other hunters so it's all good.


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## Carpn

Fawns actually have better survival rates if they are orphaned now than later in fall and winter. I don't like to shoot does with dawns but usually do. The last few yrs I have been Lucky enough to shoot mostly"dry" mature does.


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## Mad-Eye Moody

Lundy said:


> Been there done that, no fun. The fawn followed us all the way to truck as we drug momma during a early bowhunt in PA
> 
> I am too old and soft to do that again. I don't take any does until gun season or late MZ season.
> 
> Just me.


If that happened to me I dont think I could do it again either. But it has not. So I will take the doe when I can.

My issue this time of year is the appearance of the deer. With their summer coats I always think they look too thin and sickly.


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## Fishingislife

M.Magis said:


> Its not possible to kill a doe without a fawn, unless shes already lost it/them. Fawns stay with the doe until shes almost ready to give birth the following spring, but they can survive by themselves by mid July. If everyone was uncomfortable shooting a doe that still had fawns with her, deer would be thicker than mice at the feed store.


 You are 100% right.... Fawns will stay with the mother/family for about a year.


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## BassBlaster

Ive always let them walk in early bow season. I have taken does in the gun season and once took a large doe and her little ones wouldnt leave. 1 guy from our group took a doe and the little one followed him back to the truck while he was dragging mama. They are obviously old enough to survive on thier own now or ODNR wouldnt let us kill them. I just prefer to wait untill later in the year for them though.

...and you guys are right, the little ones stay with mama for awhile. She will run them off next year when she is ready to give birth.


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## ezbite

Wow... We got some killers on Ogf  the reason I chose not to shoot is because I still have some deer in my freezer and it's not like I'm starving. Now that being said, I probably should of taken the shot because I could concentrate totally on old moss horns. And as far as shooting a fawn... NO THANKs.. I shot one many years back when I hunted with a crossbow, that thing laid there for what seem like an hour, crying and flopping around before she died. The shot was good too, a thunderhead right behind the front leg. The meat was nasty too. Call me soft, I don't care, but I will never shoot another fawn.


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## russ9054

What you need to do is kill both of them. Then take the fawn meat and soak it in its own mothers milk. Man talk about some tastey vitals right there.lol.
Was that over the line?


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## snafu

russ9054 said:


> What you need to do is kill both of them. Then take the fawn meat and soak it in its own mothers milk. Man talk about some tastey vitals right there.lol.
> Was that over the line?


A little, LOL


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## russ9054

Or you kill both,gut and skin them then take the fawn shove it in the mothers cavity, sew it up,then roast the carcass on a big spit over an open flame. Then when its done have your guests gather round for the reenactment of the birth and enjoy.lol
Wow that's some screwed up stuff right there. Im going to bed lol.


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## crappiewacka

russ9054 said:


> Or you kill both,gut and skin them then take the fawn shove it in the mothers cavity, sew it up,then roast the carcass on a big spit over an open flame. Then when its done have your guests gather round for the reenactment of the birth and enjoy.lol
> Wow that's some screwed up stuff right there. Im going to bed lol.


A doawn, like a turduckin (as seen on T.V.). You're sick, man! 
Reenactment is a bit much though..


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## kprice

M.Magis said:


> Wild animals don't have human emotions.


Oh really? I never would have guessed! They do feel fear, pain. It is a matter of respect. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion on what is right and what is wrong. Simple as that. Some people it bothers to shoot a doe with a fawn. Others look at it as I need the meat.


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## bkr43050

kprice said:


> Some people it bothers to shoot a doe with a fawn. Others look at it as I need the meat.


Which is exactly why everyone will do whatever they find acceptable to them. I don't believe anyone is saying that everyone else must shoot a doe with yearlings. They are simply defending their decision on what they do as individuals. I have shot several does with yearlings and will most likely do it again. I can't say I like that situation but I accept it. I also can respect other people's choice not to shoot them. I just know that it happens a lot more than perhaps some people realize. I have had the same situation happen during slug season with yearlings so it is not exclusively an early season event. I am sure that a LOT of this goes on during the slug season.


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## M.Magis

kprice said:


> Oh really? I never would have guessed! They do feel fear, pain. It is a matter of respect. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion on what is right and what is wrong. Simple as that. Some people it bothers to shoot a doe with a fawn. Others look at it as I need the meat.


Who told you they feel fear? Youre making an assumption, that is likely wrong. It doesnt bother me if someone doesnt want to shoot a doe with young ones nearby, and I never said it did. Stop trying to make an argument where there isnt one. But the fact is that wild animals dont have emotions like people do. You watch too much Animal Planet and Disney.


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## russ9054

They do feel fear its called the fight or flight response. They are the same thing. "Emotions" are found in some evolved mammals such as apes and animals with larger brains. Some might say the canadian goose has emotions for when its mate is shot out of the sky it turns to around to look for it,however this merely an instict based on natural selection i.e. the continuation of the species...


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## Lundy

I realize that fawns by September October can survive just fine on their own. 

I also realize that I am guilty of applying human emotions to animals at times. Especially hard not to do with my dogs.

I have killed enough deer in my life and am fortunanate to have hunting opportunities today that I could safely say I can take a deer at will any day I go hunting (gun), and that I can be very picky about what I shoot and when I shoot it. I can minimize by personal stress by selecting very specific does and family groups when I decide to take a doe. I do not have to shoot the first doe or fawn that comes by, nor do I need to take 18 deer in a year.

I have no illusions thinking anyone or everyone should adopt my personal feelings and restraints, again just my choices 

As I have grown older is has become more and more about the hunt and much, much less about the harvest. Because of that there is no way I will shoot a doe with a yearling with her that is barely out of it's spots. 

To each his own


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## M.Magis

russ9054 said:


> They do feel fear its called the fight or flight response. They are the same thing. "Emotions" are found in some evolved mammals such as apes and animals with larger brains. Some might say the canadian goose has emotions for when its mate is shot out of the sky it turns to around to look for it,however this merely an instict based on natural selection i.e. the continuation of the species...



Good points. I may not have been clear, but I said wild animals dont feel emotions *like people do*. In some rudimentary way, you could find evidence of emotions in most animals Im sure. Its just nothing like what we think. It really doesnt have any validity in this post, but it looked like someone was trying to play the Bambi card. I should have let it go.


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## TheCream

Pros: thin the herd, stock your freezer

Cons: none

I sat in on a seminar at the Deer and Turkey Expo several years ago with a deer biologist that suggested fawns do not need their mother after about 6-8 weeks of age. In other words, when bow season opens, they are more than capable of surviving on their own. Let fly.


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## leupy

I will shoot a mature doe fawn or not but I won't shoot a fawn nor will I allow another hunter to shoot a fawn if in one of my stands or on my land. I personal reason is just that you can't tell if it is a buck or a doe. That is just my personal thought but I won't loose any sleep over some one else killing a fawn.


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## Lewis

I had an incident happen many years ago during early bow season.
I took a mature doe one evening and as I gutted her, her fawn circled me in a 20 yd radius for 10 minutes while bleeting and bawling loudly.
It was pretty unnerving and I must admit I felt awful at the time.

The above described incident didnt cause it, but over time I just evolved into a different hunter.
I used to hunt several states and subscribe to the "if its brown, its down" theory,but that just doesnt suit me anymore.

I am extremely fortunate to have my own land to hunt and a yard full of deer every morning and evening.
I try to target a decent buck during bow season and will occasionally take a doe during gun season.
If I get my buck thats fine,but if I dont,I still have a great season.


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## russ9054

Your right only very few animals exhibit emotions,ie apes,whales. All other animals demonstrate behaviors important for species survival,we as humans put the emotion in the equation. This is a complex subject,worth of its own thread.


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## Lundy

I was talking with Chopiq yesterday again about "snickers". He was bowhunting on the ground and saw a deer moving towards him. He drew back his bow and started to squeeze the trigger. He then decided it was too small and let down. The deer just kept coming and came right up to him and started nuzzling him. The picture John took of himself with that deer with his cellphone is great. He fed the deer a snickers bar, thus his name. I believe he said it followed him to the truck and wanted to go with him.

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=131885

A couple of years ago when John posted this I told Josh that would be the end of deer hunting if that happened to me. Last year I was filling a feeder and I turned around to find a button buck a mere 15 steps from me watching totally unafraid. I filled the feeder and jumped in my ranger and took off. After John's "snickers": experience I was worried the little guy would come over and let me pet him and I still enjoy hunting too much for that.

Much like Lewis I used to bowhunt 5 states every year. Over those 20 years of bowhunting obsession I took a bunch of deer, including does with fawns, always brought meat home. Again I have zero problem with what others choose to shoot, go for it, pile em up, kill em all,,it's just not me anymore.


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## mjeberst

I was lucky enough to harvest a mature doe last weekend on opening day. She had two fawns with her when she came in. Didn't hesitate. She dropped within eye site and the fawns just hung out for a bit. I was able to get a video of them while I sat there. You can see the "emotion" in their eyes. "Man WTF just happened?" J/k. Made for a pretty memorable hunt. I'm happy with meat in the freezer. They'll be fine. That is until the orange army lays them all down.


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## ezbite

mjeberst said:


> I was lucky enough to harvest a mature doe last weekend on opening day. She had two fawns with her when she came in. Didn't hesitate. She dropped within eye site and the fawns just hung out for a bit. I was able to get a video of them while I sat there. You can see the "emotion" in their eyes. "Man WTF just happened?" J/k. Made for a pretty memorable hunt. I'm happy with meat in the freezer. They'll be fine. That is until the orange army lays them all down.


lets see the video.

ive been thinking about this since i started this thread.... im going to try something this week ive never done. im going to try take advantage of these mama doe with fawns. im going to set out my small decoy and use my fawn bleat and see what happens. if all goes well, ill call in mama, stick her and get it on video. i should have a very interesting video if it goes as planned.


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## Mushijobah

I've done this. The fawns on all occasions stopped for a minute, then kept feeding and walked away. Human emotion in an animal is a fallacy at face value. Human emotions are reserved for humans only. It's in the name! 

It can be a little sad when we compare ourselves to deer, and think about how sad it would be if our mommys were shot right in front of us, but how logical is that? More of a human emotional response from us...humans.


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## kprice

M.Magis said:


> Who told you they feel fear? Youre making an assumption, that is likely wrong. It doesnt bother me if someone doesnt want to shoot a doe with young ones nearby, and I never said it did. Stop trying to make an argument where there isnt one. But the fact is that wild animals dont have emotions like people do. You watch too much Animal Planet and Disney.


M.Magis, you are the one who quoted me starting the arument. I don't want to argue with you because I know 100% my "assumption" is right. There is plenty of scientific research that shows mammals with human emotions. To think that they are meaningless animals that don't feel anything is just ignorant. Please feel free to never direct any posts at me on this web site. I find all your posts to be nothing but ignorant.


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## mjeberst

Tried uploading the vid and got an error message. Not a big surprise, seeing as I have trouble even getting pictures on here half of the time. 

As for the above comment. I wouldn't say he's ignorant. But damn I never see a positive comment from that dude. It's ok to disagree with someone and state your opinion. But there is a less douchey way to put it. 


ezbite said:


> lets see the video.
> 
> ive been thinking about this since i started this thread.... im going to try something this week ive never done. im going to try take advantage of these mama doe with fawns. im going to set out my small decoy and use my fawn bleat and see what happens. if all goes well, ill call in mama, stick her and get it on video. i should have a very interesting video if it goes as planned.


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## Huntinbull

EZBite, I will go with you to drag both the deer out. I will take the veal.


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## 419deerhunter

ezbite said:


> lets see the video.
> 
> ive been thinking about this since i started this thread.... im going to try something this week ive never done. im going to try take advantage of these mama doe with fawns. im going to set out my small decoy and use my fawn bleat and see what happens. if all goes well, ill call in mama, stick her and get it on video. i should have a very interesting video if it goes as planned.


Use a fawn in distress call


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## ezbite

mjeberst said:


> Tried uploading the vid and got an error message. Not a big surprise, seeing as I have trouble even getting pictures on here half of the time.


I used to get that error too. I just started uploading them to YouTube first, then copy the link to your reply.


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## mjeberst

Well I had been meaning to start a youtube account anyway. Pretty rough self filmed video. But there it is. I don't care how many deer I harvest, I still shake afterwards. The deer in the middle of the video are the fawns after I took the shot.


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## crappiewacka

mjeberst, EXCELLENT!


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## CasualFisherman

Lundy said:


> I realize that fawns by September October can survive just fine on their own.
> 
> I also realize that I am guilty of applying human emotions to animals at times. Especially hard not to do with my dogs.
> 
> I have killed enough deer in my life and am fortunanate to have hunting opportunities today that I could safely say I can take a deer at will any day I go hunting (gun), and that I can be very picky about what I shoot and when I shoot it. I can minimize by personal stress by selecting very specific does and family groups when I decide to take a doe. I do not have to shoot the first doe or fawn that comes by, nor do I need to take 18 deer in a year.
> 
> I have no illusions thinking anyone or everyone should adopt my personal feelings and restraints, again just my choices
> 
> As I have grown older is has become more and more about the hunt and much, much less about the harvest. Because of that there is no way I will shoot a doe with a yearling with her that is barely out of it's spots.
> 
> To each his own


Very well said. I passed on a mother and fawn Saturday night (Also on two scrubby young bucks). I usually would take a yearling for meat but I make a distinction between a yearling and a fawn. This fawn still had barely visable spots and was maybe 50 pounds. The season is too long and my motivation for harvest is not as strong as it once was to take either so early in the season. 

To each their own.


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## monster7

kprice said:


> M.Magis, you are the one who quoted me starting the arument. I don't want to argue with you because I know 100% my "assumption" is right. There is plenty of scientific research that shows mammals with human emotions. To think that they are meaningless animals that don't feel anything is just ignorant. Please feel free to never direct any posts at me on this web site. I find all your posts to be nothing but ignorant.


Let's not start a pissing contest. Agreeing to disagree is probably the best option. Obviously, the both of you have completely different opinions and assumptions and there is no sense in clouding this thread with personal jabs.

I get tired of seeing forums covered in BS and arugments because people feel the need to always be right. If you want to argue, get a girlfriend or a wife....lol


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