# Busted on the LMR



## fshnteachr (Jun 9, 2007)

I just read an article in todays DDN about the alcohol sweep in Warren county on the LMR. Anyone run into the autorities while out this past weekend? I fish the Greene Co. portion of the LMR, other than the occaisional canoe, or wader, I do not see a lot of people out there too much. The paper said nearly 200 people were cited! Wow!


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## Getzjd (Dec 10, 2004)

I bet they setup a checkpoint midway down one of the main canoe paths such as morgans or such. I have seen people being searched before while cabrewing in the past but luckily we drifted by while they were busy with someone else.

They could probably bust at least 50 people a weekend if they wanted to along those major commercial canoe routes.


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## flybywags (Mar 13, 2007)

I think they should have to announce when they are doing these things just like DUI check points. Shame to ruin all the fun just because some people can't keep their trash in thier boats.

-Wags


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

flybywags said:


> I think they should have to announce when they are doing these things just like DUI check points. Shame to ruin all the fun just because some people can't keep their trash in thier boats.
> 
> -Wags


I don't really have an opinon one way or the other, but you bring up a great point. Aren't these just like DUI checkpoints? Mike McConnell from 700 WLW is an avid anti-DUI checkpoint person, soley becasue he thinks it's agasint your rights and such. Give the show a call.


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

I heard they are going to do it every weekend on different parts of the river until summer is over to try put a stop to drinking on the LMR . They are also cracking down on the Ohio River several were citied on Brush creek this past month .


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## Getzjd (Dec 10, 2004)

it is not a dui check point. they are not checking to see if you are drunk but rather for open containers. Two completely different things. They arent going to make you get out and walk a line in the sand


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

What's illlegal about drinking on Brush creek?
Unless Bush creek is a state park. Everything I've read says that you are allowed to have alcoholic beverages aboard your boat, but you can't be intoxicated (I assume this means;past the legal limit)


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## Backwater (Aug 13, 2006)

I may be wrong, but I don't think it is legal to have an open container of any alcoholic beverage on board a moving vessel (canoe, yak, boat, etc). You can transport closed containers, but if you are found with an open beer can, bottle of wine, etc you can be cited, regardless of whether you are intoxicated or not.


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## Getzjd (Dec 10, 2004)

I belive you may have open containers if your boat is a certain size and contains a bathroom. I will search around for the answer


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## Mean Morone (Apr 12, 2004)

I think this WILD AND SCENIC RIVER should be treated just like that. I take my kids to that river. Nothing worse than having a bunch of drunk unruly people ruining a good family outing. Last time there, my buddy(who is 6 someithing and 200 +) had to threaten some guys because they thought it would be fun to tip us and our wives. They were drunk of course. One other time we had to back some people down because of foul language and they were splashing us with their oars. Might sound petty to some of you, but I shouldn't have to fend off drunks while out with the family.


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## Getzjd (Dec 10, 2004)

Some states such as texas allow open containers on boats as long as the operator is not intoxicated. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/faq/learning/boater_education/#10


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## BigLunkerSOB (Jan 10, 2006)

No way should you be cited for having an open container. It is a complete scam to fund the salaries of greedy Warren County officials. Willy is discussing this topic right now on 700. Think about how much money they raised just with this sweep. 200 citations X $130 tickets= 26,000 smackers. That right there is enough to fund these vermin wildlife officers salary for the whole year. Just think if they do this every weekend for the rest of the summer, $26,000 X 12 more weeks of summer = $312,000 (enough dollars to fund the Warren county prosecutor Rachel Hutzel's salary. 

This is insanity!!!!!!!!!


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

Does anybody know if there have been any alcohol related drownings recently, This will allways kick them into gear. A awhile back I posted about seeing them in loveland on east kemper along the LMR. they were right accross the river from Loveland Canoe rental. I know the rental spots don't wan't the drinking because of not only the liability but the trash and disrespect asspect of the drinking on the river. I don't want to be the guy that says hey no drinking on the river because it is fun and goes hand in hand with canoeing for some. But I do agree that hammered drunks that can have an attitude with the booze in them and causing problems for others out to enjoy a day on the water should punished. I say if it is illegal then bust them, give them a ticket and apply the money to our fisheries or conservation efforts. Cabrew if you want but remember there are many people on the water that don't cabrew, they have there kids on the water to enjoy it and not to mention all us who love fish and have a day on the river ruined by bud cans floating downstream into the holes we are fishing only to be followed by a bunch of lound obnoxious drunks floating by and asking if your catching any thing and then slap the water with there paddle and say not any more and start laughing. And waiting for you to say something as they and there buddies are at the ready to get out kick your ass because you are alone. (go back to the "bullying on the water" post). This did happen to me on the mad river many years ago when I was fishing alone, They also watched as I scooped up there empty bud cans and got a big kick out of throwing more in. We all know these types are the one's that ruine it for everyone not the average person enjoying a cold beer in heat of the mid-day sun. It just suck's that they feel the need to do it. Not much of a way to enjoy the peace and reguvination of day on the water..........S


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## TimJC (Apr 6, 2004)

The real question is what this is going to do to livery business. I don't know what the profit is on canoe and kayak rentals, but I doubt it is all that healthy. This could really kill business for some. It is the littering that is the huge problem and unfortunately it is hard to cite as the offender must be caught in the act.


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## zspook (Apr 4, 2006)

Amen sevenx - Amen!
z


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## fshnteachr (Jun 9, 2007)

sevenx said:


> Does anybody know if there have been any alcohol related drownings recently, This will allways kick them into gear. A awhile back I posted about seeing them in loveland on east kemper along the LMR. they were right accross the river from Loveland Canoe rental. I know the rental spots don't wan't the drinking because of not only the liability but the trash and disrespect asspect of the drinking on the river. I don't want to be the guy that says hey no drinking on the river because it is fun and goes hand in hand with canoeing for some. But I do agree that hammered drunks that can have an attitude with the booze in them and causing problems for others out to enjoy a day on the water should punished. I say if it is illegal then bust them, give them a ticket and apply the money to our fisheries or conservation efforts. Cabrew if you want but remember there are many people on the water that don't cabrew, they have there kids on the water to enjoy it and not to mention all us who love fish and have a day on the river ruined by bud cans floating downstream into the holes we are fishing only to be followed by a bunch of lound obnoxious drunks floating by and asking if your catching any thing and then slap the water with there paddle and say not any more and start laughing. And waiting for you to say something as they and there buddies are at the ready to get out kick your ass because you are alone. (go back to the "bullying on the water" post). This did happen to me on the mad river many years ago when I was fishing alone, They also watched as I scooped up there empty bud cans and got a big kick out of throwing more in. We all know these types are the one's that ruine it for everyone not the average person enjoying a cold beer in heat of the mid-day sun. It just suck's that they feel the need to do it. Not much of a way to enjoy the peace and reguvination of day on the water..........S


Couldn't have put it any better myself!!


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## sporty (Apr 6, 2004)

Very interesting view on the subject. I have to ask, did you get a ticket?



BigLunkerSOB said:


> No way should you be cited for having an open container. It is a complete scam to fund the salaries of greedy Warren County officials. Willy is discussing this topic right now on 700. Think about how much money they raised just with this sweep. 200 citations X $130 tickets= 26,000 smackers. That right there is enough to fund these vermin wildlife officers salary for the whole year. Just think if they do this every weekend for the rest of the summer, $26,000 X 12 more weeks of summer = $312,000 (enough dollars to fund the Warren county prosecutor Rachel Hutzel's salary.
> 
> This is insanity!!!!!!!!!


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

They are setting up on major, well travled canoe paths on the routes of the liveries. 

I have mixed opinions on this matter. I do not ever drink while I fish, but have certainly imbibed while floating in my yak or canoe with buddies; especially in my early 20's. I am certainly in agreement that people should not have to put up with litter, foul language, unwanted splashing/tipping or threats. But, I also feel an adult of legal drinking age ought to be able to enjoy his/her beverage of choice while floating down the river. 

Over the years I have had encounters with all sorts of folks you see on the river both good & bad. The good experiences far out number the bad. In hindsight, I believe I have had bad encounters with just as many non-drinking people as I have drinkers. IMO - it isn't the booze that makes a guy an a-hole; he was an a-hole before he had his first sip. No doubt too much booze just intensify's the bad behavior.

I frequent the Mad river on my yak and honestly the majority of canoe folks from the livery (morgan's or whatever it has switched over to) are drinking. I worry about the small business guys taking a hit due to the tickets. 

I won't argue that is against the law, but I feel it is in the same category as ticketing for open container on High St. during Buckeye games.

I understand the frustration for the families out there, but from what I've seen the "bad" incidents with drunks bothering a family are rare. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but they usually leave people with kids alone. And really, I would just make that an example for my kids of how not to act. They are going to be exposed to bad behavior sooner or later and it is best 
they see it with you.

Just my $.02


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

Drinking , open container , is against the law on any body of water in Ohio from my understanding . Same as a car . Someone correct me if I am wrong .


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

Fishnfool, I agree that these people are the way they are before the drinking, I do believe that the drinking makes it worse. These are the same guys leaving chip bags and bait containers on the river. I believe its because they were never taught anything differen't. I am not going to get into parenting and how kids are being raised but lack of parental involvement is a big part of the problem. I know one canoe retal place that is working hard to discurage drinking on the river and have a stricked no alchohol policy. pm me if you would like to now as I don't want use there name without consent. Now ofcourse you can have a stash or buddy 100yards down river to get around it. (I hope I didn't just give anyone bad Idea's) and there business is thriving. I guess the people who don't want to deal with the hassel of it when out with kids or whatever the reason are supporting them. We could pound this subject into the ground presenting case's for both sides. It all boil's down to respecting our eco system and the valuble resource's we all have if we don't we wont have to worry about our kids getting to enjoy it anyway. There is a post about Trash on the forum right now read thru that and see the efforts that all the guys and gals are putting forth to keep beloved spots clean and my guess is this will continue to snow ball as there children and the friends they take fishing with them are lead by example. We are the one's who have to pick up after the other guys because they simply won't change. FnF I also agree its not so much the drinking as it is the drinker. I would hope the officers would have the sense to tell the difference between the two. However, They also have a job to do and if they are out there busting people I have to believe that they have had some pressure to do it from some where. I can think of one group right off hand. Little Miami Inc. (sorry to name names and I hope I am not out of line in doing so). It is cause and effect. As I stated early I am not out to ban alcholol from the river that is a violation of our rights imo but I am out to keep our rivers and lakes clean and teach my kids to do the same for there kids. S


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Mean Morone said:


> I think this WILD AND SCENIC RIVER should be treated just like that. I take my kids to that river. Nothing worse than having a bunch of drunk unruly people ruining a good family outing. Last time there, my buddy(who is 6 someithing and 200 +) had to threaten some guys because they thought it would be fun to tip us and our wives. They were drunk of course. One other time we had to back some people down because of foul language and they were splashing us with their oars. Might sound petty to some of you, but I shouldn't have to fend off drunks while out with the family.


Compare the above quote with: "vermin wildlife officers" from Self-titled BigLunkerSOB.
I guess "vermin wildlife officers" are in the same league as "pigs" and "gestapo" cops? 
The wildlife officers are in position to protect wildlife and human life.
Now, you break the law, and they are not your friend, or are they? If you are teachable, and not a stiff necked no-gooder, you'll take the correction, pay the fine, and LEARN not to float w/open containers.
Just like it's the judge's fault you have so many dui's, Mike McConnell think's it's against your rights for a check point? Then why were there 50 citations? 
There would be no need for check points if we were prone to obey the law.
I see daily our soldiers dying for our country, and friends, they are dying in vain if you will not obey the laws they are dying for. They are not dying so you can be free to break the law. Freedom isn't free to break the law, Freedom is being responsible to line up with the law of the land. Then you are really free, I DON'T have to worry about a wildlife officer handing me a ticket, I'm up to date with my license, I follow the creel limits, and don't drink.
If you don't like the laws, lobby to have them changed, but being foolish or unruly because you don't like the law doesn't change them.
I hope they continue, I've floated some of that same stretch, beer cans, foul language, aggressive behavior. 
The safest place to drink is in your own back yard, or living room, game room, etc. Do it there.
It's dangerous enough on the water without drunks adding to it.
LMJ


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## Stretch (Apr 5, 2004)

Here is a link to a article about the arrests:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...OL-?SITE=WBNSTV&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Hopefully this will clear some of the questions up as to who/what/why/etc...


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## flybywags (Mar 13, 2007)

I'll be honest, when I was younger we used to cabrew all the time and it was a good time. An excuse to get out of the house, on the water andout with some good friends. We always cleaned up our messes and do the same when fishing. It's just sad that there are people out there who have to ruin the fun for all of us. I understand that it is illigal to have an open container on the river. I also understand that its illigal to speed, but on occassion I still do it, and I'm sure many of you do as well. 

I agree with Sevenx on this that having no one show them how to treat our eco system. I would like to see more programs like this in our schools. I mean, everyone is sooo big on saving the planet from a .6 degree increase in heat that we are being asked to change our lives for it. So why not teach people how to make the environment look good too. If nothing else, give people trash bags to take with them in the canoos or yaks. 

People will still drink though, and there will be some that will be horse's asses. The best way to do it is not treat the problem but treat the source. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime." same thing goes here, Give a man a ticket, fix the problem for the day, teach the man what to do so he doesn't have to get a ticket and keep our river looking beautiful and peaceful. Anyways, thats my two bits. Enjoy the waters and be safe.

-Wags


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

Sounds like a 4th amendment violation to me, and PLENTY of people have given their lives to guarantee that right!

I occasionally enjoy an adult beverage while fishing from my kayak. I never really thought about it being illegal, and I dont plan to change the practice just because the MAN doesnt think that I should be able to enjoy a beer on a rare day off.

The police jump into action when the landowners complain about too much noise.Too bad they cant jump into action and stop the JUNK running into the river from the same landowners.

IF wildlife officers were involved (not clear from the article), I can certainly think of 1000s of ways that they could better spend their time (our TAX money) to protect the river.

We fishermen complain that there is too much trash on the banks of the river. Next time, do a quick count. Im willing to bet that you see more empty bait containers than beer cans. Why cant the MAN pass a law that requires bait containers to be made of paper rather than blue plastic?


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

THanks for the link Stretch. Rooster good point on the bait containers. I am sure there is a way to create some sort of post consumer recycled and bio degradable container. My guess would be profit/loss to doit. S


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Good points made here and good for discussion. I would also add most of my experience is on the Mad and down on New River, WV; I have only hit the LMR a few times in my life.

IMHO - This turns into the age old liberal Vs. conservative debate and I consider myself to be middle of the road (if there is such a thing!).

Rooster - I like your "out-of-the-box" thought process on the laws with bait containers; we could really use some thought like that in the legislative body.

Ain't this country great!!!!!!


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Rooster said:


> Sounds like a 4th amendment violation to me, and PLENTY of people have given their lives to guarantee that right!
> 
> I occasionally enjoy an adult beverage while fishing from my kayak. I never really thought about it being illegal, and I dont plan to change the practice just because the MAN doesnt think that I should be able to enjoy a beer on a rare day off.
> 
> ?


Rooster, not trying to pick a fight here, but this quote is some of what I'm referring to. Just because you or I don't think the law is right, doesn't make it right to break it, and those guys and gals ARE dying for these very laws.
How is it a 4th amendment violation for law officers to enforce the law? 
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
If you are openly breaking the law, and the officer sees you doing it, what right is broken? Probable cause would be the open container in your hand or possession, trail of empty's in the water, and attitude that goes with making up the rules as they suit your situation.
If you hit somebody in the face, and it's witnessed, you get arrested for assault. If you paddle by with an open container, you get arrested for an open container. Keep your open containers at home, outside of a moving vehicle, and nobody gets hurt, and nobody goes to jail, except for occasional domestic violence situations.
LMJ


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## Rooster (Apr 8, 2004)

A checkpoint by its very nature, removes any burden of probable cause. That is why I consider it to be a 4th amendment violation.

Preaching that it is disrespectful to the members of the US Military for me to have a beer on the river rubs me the wrong way! I spent enough time in the military to know with a high degree of certainty that many soldiers themselves enjoy an occasional beer on the river.

If you want to discuss it further, shoot me a PM.


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## seethe303 (Dec 12, 2006)

LittleMiamiJeff said:


> Rooster, not trying to pick a fight here, but this quote is some of what I'm referring to. Just because you or I don't think the law is right, doesn't make it right to break it, and those guys and gals ARE dying for these very laws.
> 
> LMJ


I'm not saying this law is or isn't just or unjust, but Martin Luther King Jr. said in his letter from the Birmingham Jail; 

"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws"

not trying to start something, I just want to point out that it is very possible there are times when it is morally right to disobey a law. I am NOT saying it about this situation.


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## Lunkers (Mar 8, 2007)

I read the article. I am very mixed on this one as well. It is against the law. So do not complain when caught breaking the law. The law should be changed(IMO). Last time I checked. Disorderly conduct is against the law as well. Public profanity,intoxication,threats of violence, are all violations I believe. If someone is doing any of these they should be ticketed. Maybe the open container could be a secondary offense. Like a seat belt violation used to be. They could not pull you over for not having your belt on. You had to be doing some other infraction. Wait to see someone get out of order. Then ticket the aggressive behavior, if they have alcohol, bonus ticket. Just like the seat belt used to be. If you are a responsible adult that wants to canoe with adult beverages you should be able to. Unfortunately I do not know anyone who literally has a private river to go cabrew on.Certainly littering should be severely punishable. If you bring it,take it, without excuse.


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## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

Why is it that when a few fools act bad that everyone has to suffer for it? I do not blame Fred down the street for letting of fireworks at 2:00 in the morning because Jim on the other street did. And I do not plan on condemning the V.F.W.'s fireworks show because of Jim. So why should I consider myself to be so smart and morally just that I condemn everyone that has picked up a can or bottle of adult beverage. 

Of over 35+ years on the water I can only think of a few times that I have ran into bad situations with others. Heck I have had fly fisherman on the upper Mad treat me like a leper because I did not have my fly rod in my hand. The next time I see them and I do have a fly rod in my hand they are just as respectful as can be without remembering me, all they saw was the fly rod. Does that mean that I should curse all fly fisherman over a few, no. You could say the same about live bait and artificial fisherman. If we look hard enough we could come up with a way for all to be ticketed and kicked out of the water. Why would we do that? Because Jim does things different than me and I just plain do not like his idea of a relaxing time. How dare he spend time on my water trying to relax after a hard week of work and not do it the way that I see correct. 

But I have decided that I will no longer pick up empty beer cans because I could get a ticket for open containers. Just playing it safe.


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## Bigun (Jun 20, 2006)

My thoughts... I like to have a beer when Im fishing, or camping, or when i get off work... Oh hell with it I like beer pretty much all the time. Now that you all think I am a drunk I usually have no more then two because of a predisposition to severe hangovers.  (Think in bed for 3 days unable to move). That being said I understand why the state and local authorities are cracking down on some of this. 

1.) I think almost all of us have had a run in with beligerant drunks, I know I have. I watched a group of them get into a full 4 on 4 fight, hiting each other in the heads with rocks, and throwing each other down the ramp at a livery on the LMR last year. This is unacceptable. We should all be able to enjoy the outdoors without this. 

2.) While alot of us have had run ins with the people in point # 1 these incidents are relatively few and far between. Making enforcement of disorderly conduct, assault, and other applicable laws difficult and expensive.

3.) Because of the people in point # 1 causing the situation from point # 2 the autorities apply a method of enforcement known as broken windows. This theory basically states that if the smaller crimes are enforced the larger more serious crimes never occur. This is the theory applied by mayor Giuliani To clean up new york. 

"Thus, Giuliani's "zero tolerance" roll out was part of an interlocking set of wider reforms, crucial parts of which had been underway since 1985. Giuliani had the police even more strictly enforce the law against subway fare evasion, and stopped public drinkers, urinators, and the "squeegee men" who had been wiping windshields of stopped cars and demanding payment. Rates of both petty and serious crime fell suddenly and significantly, and continued to drop for the following ten years (see: the 2001 study of crime trends in New York by George Kelling and William Sousa, and the 2002 study by Hope Corman)."

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows


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## Weatherby (May 27, 2005)

Direct from the ODNR website:

Operating Under the Influence of Alcohol or Drugs Prohibited/Testing
(ORC 1547.11 & ORC 1547.111)
No person shall operate or be in physical control of any vessel underway, or manipulate any water skis or similar device if the person is under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs. A person is in violation with a concentration of 0.08 or more Blood Alcohol Content (BAC). 

NOTE: Legal limit for persons under 21 years of age is 0.02 Blood Alcohol Content (BAC).

Any person who operates a vessel, water skis or similar device shall be deemed to have given consent to a chemical test or tests of their blood, breath, or urine to determine alcohol or drug content if arrested. If a person under arrest refuses to submit to a chemical test the person is prohibited from operating a vessel or water skis or from registering a vessel for a one-year period. If the person is the owner of the vessel the registration certificate and tags will be impounded for a one-year period.

Penalty for Operating Under the
Influence of Alcohol or Drugs 
Offense Minimum Maximum 
First 3 days jail
$150 fine 6 months jail
$1,000 fine 
Second 10 days jail
$150 fine 6 months jail
$1,000 fine 
Third 30 days jail
$150 fine 6 months jail
$1,000 fine 





Intoxicating Beverage 
(1501:41-3-22) 
No person shall overtly and publicly consume or display the presence of any beer or intoxicating liquor in any area administered by the Division of Parks and Recreation, except within the confines and privacy afforded in a cabin, lodge room, tent, or camping vehicle or in areas authorized by the Chief of the Division of Parks and Recreation.


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## lastv8 (Oct 11, 2004)

its all about how much $$$$$$ they can suck out of you.


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## CasualFisherman (May 21, 2004)

Looking at the story most of the citations were for open container violations. Ohio law prohibits open alcoholic containers "In any public place" with a whole list of exclusions. (ORC 4301.62). None of which are rivers or navigable waterways. It is a pretty grey area as large rivers such as the Ohio and Lake Erie are not enforced as your boat has generally held as private property operating in a navigable waterway. You are prohibited from operating boats under the influence (ORC 1547.11 & ORC 1547.111) but the open container law does not specifically apply to boats as it must meet the public place definition. Thats why you can drink on private lakes. Motor vehicles are specifically mentioned in the statute and watercraft are not hence a disparity in treatment between the two. I could not find any caselaw that addresses the public place designation in regards to waterways and watercraft (Other than state parks) and therefore leaves the issue open to interpretation by Law enforcement agencies and prosecutors. Since most rivers are considered private property I think it would be difficult for them to enforce unless the checkpoints were set up on public property or if there are local laws that apply in Warren county. Just my two cents. My bet is that the checkpoints were along public park property and hence met the public place designation.


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## BigLunkerSOB (Jan 10, 2006)

Can't drink, can't smoke, can't gamble (only in a church), can't go to strip clubs. In the words of Willie, we live in the Islamic Republic of NoHio.


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## fishinjim (Aug 9, 2006)

you can drink openly on the beaches in South Carolina and seldom do you see total disregard for others. A little freedom goes a long way towards preventing wanton disregard, so why can we drive with a limit just under .08 yet cannot float at or above .02?


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Little Miami River is a 53 mile long State Park, which is why this law would apply.
LMJ


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

Law enforcement feels the need to make laws to protect stupid people. These laws were made to be enforced on stupid people, now there using them for revenue.
If instead of putting up "NO ALCOHOL" signs in the park, they put up a number to report people interfering with other people and nature, they would be doing more good.
I had one run in with a park ranger on the LMR and she was a B%#[email protected] He agenda that day was to give tickets for stickers and life jackets. Won't go into all of it, but ODNR must be teaching these rangers to be a-holes, just like the a-holes mentioned in this thread.
Why is it that if someone kills themselves while intoxicated, we are responsible to make a law? This person is probably gonna kill themselves in a car anyway. Also now, instead of drinking on the river, they will probably use narcotics (because there easier to hide) and then be in worse shape to operate a boat.
We need to stop littering, not drinking! Granted there are mostly beer cans on the river, but I pick up a whole lot of gatorade, soda, ect...
If I ever get a ticket on the river, there probably going to take me to jail!
I'm doing that river more good by being there, than not. Picking up cans and what not.

I don't know any of the poeple that were recently given tickets on LMR, but I find it hard to believe that there were 147+ people cited that day were being as bad as the channel 10 article suggests.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

I couldn't let this go.
I know people in the military and I'm sure 75% of them are the same. If they read this, they would be all over you! 

Why you would even try to use what our troops in Iraq are fighting for, and compare it to a state drinking law is beyond me. 

I live my life by what I believe is right and what the bible tells me is right. Not the goverment.



LittleMiamiJeff said:


> I see daily our soldiers dying for our country, and friends, they are dying in vain if you will not obey the laws they are dying for. They are not dying so you can be free to break the law. Freedom isn't free to break the law, Freedom is being responsible to line up with the law of the land. Then you are really free, I DON'T have to worry about a wildlife officer handing me a ticket, I'm up to date with my license, I follow the creel limits, and don't drink.
> If you don't like the laws, lobby to have them changed, but being foolish or unruly because you don't like the law doesn't change them.
> I hope they continue, I've floated some of that same stretch, beer cans, foul language, aggressive behavior.
> The safest place to drink is in your own back yard, or living room, game room, etc. Do it there.
> ...


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

CCRiley2 said:


> I live my life by what I believe is right and what the bible tells me is right. Not the goverment.


CC, read Romans 13, and see what the Bible says about obeying local governments, and then post the above again. 

LMJ


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

LittleMiamiJeff said:


> CC, read Romans 13, and see what the Bible says about obeying local governments, and then post the above again.
> 
> LMJ


O.K. so if you would have been born in Iraq you would have followed Saddam.


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

CCRiley2 said:


> O.K. so if you would have been born in Iraq you would have followed Saddam.


CC, that's silly, all I will say to that is we have a due process of law in the USA, and so far it's the best the world governments have to offer.
Let's obey it, and if we don't like the laws, there is a process offered by this same process, where we can change the laws. Until the laws have changed, we are called as citizens of this US of A to obey the laws. And yes, your brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, husbands and wives, sons and daughters have and are and will continue to die for our laws, let's honor them by being good citizens.
LMJ


LMJ


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

i don't have a clue how this thread went from floating down the river with a beer,to the military mission in iraq,to bible quotes,but i think it's about time to put the train back on the track and headed back in the right direction before it crashes.


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## BigLunkerSOB (Jan 10, 2006)

For those of you that missed it, this topic was discussed on 700 WLW a few days ago. I had the link posted to the show but MISFIT took the liberty of editing it out of my post although I don't know why. Anyway, it is under the podcast section on 700 WLW's website and it is quite entertaining.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

it was edited out because there are certain guidelines pertaining to posting links.that link did not add anything useful to the discussion and was basically one man's political views.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

I want to drop this discussion, but I have to get this off my chest.
I agree that my comment was silly.
I was only making a point that you can't argue with one scripture from the bible.
There are many scriptures that could be argued in silly ways.
I don't mean to be controversial.
I agree that as citizens of the US we should obey the laws.
The laws were made to protect us.
I don't agree when laws these laws are used for revenue and personal agenda. Such as the officer in Cincy that gladly accepted an award from MADD, then was arrested for DUI.
I hope I'm not coming off as an a-hole.
None of this is personal or meant to be demeaning.
LMJ, you make many good points.
I just think we have a different opinion on obeying certain laws and how to fight them. 
You could say that Jesus fought Roman laws by disobeying them.


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## Darwin (Apr 12, 2004)

I myself have been known to enjoy a few adult beverages on the water from time to time. If I got a ticket or an OVI at a check point while doing so would I be pi$$ed? Absolutely, would I complain, most assuredly, could I blame anyone else but myself for doing it? I guess I could but we all know who would be to blame for it don't we? 
Although I do not all together agree with the whole check point thing. It is done for one simple reason. Too many people drive a car or operate a boat under the influence and that needs to be stopped. PERIOD!

As far as your tax dollars paying the Wildlife Officers salaries, it does not happen. Your hunting and fishing license purchases are what pay the salaries of our Wildlife Officers.


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## BigLunkerSOB (Jan 10, 2006)

> it was edited out because there are certain guidelines pertaining to posting links.that link did not add anything useful to the discussion and was basically one man's political views.


If you listened to the podcast there were some useful things. Obviously you didn't listen to it. They had the Warren county prosecutor on the show explaining the reasoning behind the AMBUSH. They also had a few people that are now criminals of Warren county via this ambush. This was not 1 man's political views both sides were portrayed, let me guess, you support the Fairness doctrine. Anyway the show was entertaining and it did feature the WHY behind this AMBUSH along with a discussion that is useful to the post in my opinion.

If it's not too much trouble, enlighten me on the "certain guidelines for posting links"?


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## dvsm0479 (May 21, 2007)

So at the checkpoints, everyone is searched regardless of how they are behaving and whether or not they openly display alcohol containers? Is that right?


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

that site is a political blog,which is against the ogf rules.the particular episode may have been a referred to the subject,but the fact remains the link goes to a political blog.i know who the guy is,have heard him before and did listen to that episode.it has nothing to do with the fairness doctrine which also is a political discussion not suited fior these forums.
now that i've "enlightened" you,i hope you understand the rules.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

dvsm0479 said:


> So at the checkpoints, everyone is searched regardless of how they are behaving and whether or not they openly display alcohol containers? Is that right?


This is my understanding. If you listen to the podcast, that BiglunkerSOB speaks of, it is very informative. The people on the radio that were busted sounded very laid back. The one man had his grandmother with him.
Sounds like they were spotting people with binoculors. The drunk idiots all got away cause they heard of the check point and threw there empties in the woods and drown them.


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## 1badmthrfisher (Apr 4, 2005)

Well I honestly think its funny that all those people got busted.... I wouldnt have a single problem with people drinking on the river besides the fact that i find A million beer cans all over the banks when i fish it...the beer cans heavily outnumber the soda cans....therefore i think it needs to be enforced as they are....


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## dvsm0479 (May 21, 2007)

Well aproaching it like that, as you said, only encourages people to toss their empties in the river so they don't get caught.




Lunkers said:


> I read the article. I am very mixed on this one as well. It is against the law. So do not complain when caught breaking the law. The law should be changed(IMO). Last time I checked. Disorderly conduct is against the law as well. *Public profanity,intoxication,threats of violence, are all violations I believe. If someone is doing any of these they should be ticketed. Maybe the open container could be a secondary offense. Like a seat belt violation used to be. They could not pull you over for not having your belt on. You had to be doing some other infraction. Wait to see someone get out of order. Then ticket the aggressive behavior, if they have alcohol, bonus ticket.* Just like the seat belt used to be. If you are a responsible adult that wants to canoe with adult beverages you should be able to. Unfortunately I do not know anyone who literally has a private river to go cabrew on.Certainly littering should be severely punishable. If you bring it,take it, without excuse.


I think this is a much better aproach. The people acting like idiots are the ones that should be targeted. As long as people are being safe and respectful of other people then there shouldn't be an issue, and I doubt many disagree with me.


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## Chemlab187 (Apr 29, 2007)

Could I please get a flowchart of these rules?

No political posts unless they are on topic, and then no links to "political" pages even if they are on topic? I am confused, because the ODNR's site is political propaganda imo...


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

misfit said:


> i don't have a clue how this thread went from floating down the river with a beer,to the military mission in iraq,to bible quotes,but i think it's about time to put the train back on the track and headed back in the right direction before it crashes.


Whooo Whoooo, chugga chugga! All Aboard! 
Sorry Misfit, couldn't resist!
LMJ


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

So I must be right , no drinking on ANY body of water is allowed .


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

No drinking on any state owned or controlled body of water. Lake Erie and the Ohio River are controlled by the federal govt. and patrolled by the Coast Guard. You are allowed to drink on those bodies of water except the skipper.


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## C J Hughes (Jan 24, 2006)

I was stopped this summer on the Ohio River for lifejacket check by the Dnr's watercraft boat . The first thing he asked was, Did I have any type of alcohol on my boat and had I been drinking . I see them every time I am down on the river I will ask them next time .


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Ohio has no jurisdiction on the Ohio River, West Virginia and Kentucky do.
Which DNR are you referring to? ODNR?

Three of us were coming into Lorain last fall after a perch fishing trip. Each of us cracked open a cold beer on the way in. Each of us still had a half full open beer can when the Coast Guard stopped us for a safety check. We just set the cans in the cupholder in full view and the CG said nothing about it.


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## rutty (Feb 5, 2007)

Lewzer said:


> Ohio has no jurisdiction on the Ohio River, West Virginia and Kentucky do.
> Which DNR are you referring to? ODNR?
> 
> Three of us were coming into Lorain last fall after a perch fishing trip. Each of us cracked open a cold beer on the way in. Each of us still had a half full open beer can when the Coast Guard stopped us for a safety check. We just set the cans in the cupholder in full view and the CG said nothing about it.



I have been stopped many of times by Coast Guard on lake Erie and 98% of the time I have an open container. You are allowed to drink on Lake erie, the captain can't be drunk or anything, it is the same as driving .08 applies to boating as well. If you fall in under that, you are fine.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

I know. That's what I said. Same with the Ohio River but no alcohol whatsoever on state owned or controlled waterways.
But it isn't the same as driving. No open containers whatsoever are allowed in cars.


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

Ohio laws annoy me so bad sometimes. Drinking and driving and drinking and boating are very bad, we all know that. Me floating down a river with a beer is endangering people how? Its like the no smoking, no gambling, etc. in Ohio, they always think they are taking the moral high ground. 

You can be searched at anytime by the ODNR and they call it a "safety check" so even if they didn't see me drinking but suspected me they could just pull a "safety check" on me. 

Laws are brought about because of idiots, people who are so dumb that they endanger others. In the meantime, these laws effect other people who understand the words "responsibility" and "moderation." Just like anything, we cant paint everyone with broad strokes and expect eveyone to fit into it.

Jake


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