# ODNR closes Operation North Coast



## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

http://ohiodnr.gov/news/post/odnr-division-of-wildlife-closes-operation-north-coast-case


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

They should lose hunting and fishing privileges for LIFE. ALL businesses should be closed.This is another prime example of our justice system going soft on convicted criminals !


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

1) A license doesn't mean anything to people like these.

2) The fine and legal costs will be financially devastating to most.

What do you want the judge to do? Death penalty? 

The crime here is that it took two and a half years at taxpayer expense to bring this to resolution.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Line 4 should be a crime.


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## ya13ya03 (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm just glad they caught these guys. That's a heck of an investigation.


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

YES


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## s.a.m (Feb 22, 2016)

Well the one guy didn't have a problem finding perch in the central basin!!


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

LOL


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## dcool (Apr 14, 2004)

Hoo - ray for the ODNR!


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

slap on the wrists IMO...


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## bumpus (Jan 17, 2015)

Seems kind of weird that you can lose your truck and gun if your caught poaching but if you cut up poached deer the business can stay open


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

I agree take the businesses too. Should have taken the boats they used too.


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

It may have taken allot of time but there were allot of people in a very large area involved


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

yes the fines and court costs is a burden on most people. but through the sale of fish and deer they made more money than the fines and court cost.

what I don't understand is why there wasnt more jail time handed out for so many felonies. and why most jail times was suspended. I think people with multiple game violation felonies should spend 3 to 5 yrs behind bars. the cost alone for an investigation of this size costed tax payers 10's of thousands of dollars. they should get justice for the money spent. I agree with the fines but the state should get reimbursed for the cost to catch them. more cars and boats and houses should have been confiscated and more jail time should have been handed out. just my opinion.
sherman


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## OrangeMilk (Oct 13, 2012)

It's a shame that nine of these criminals received a life time hunting or fishing ban. Obviously they don't care about rules, regulations or laws, but a lifetime ban as well as a decade of probation would give officers probable cause in the future to go after them if they have just an ounce of suspicion.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

sherman51 said:


> yes the fines and court costs is a burden on most people. but through the sale of fish and deer they made more money than the fines and court cost.
> 
> what I don't understand is why there wasnt more jail time handed out for so many felonies. and why most jail times was suspended. I think people with multiple game violation felonies should spend 3 to 5 yrs behind bars. the cost alone for an investigation of this size costed tax payers 10's of thousands of dollars. they should get justice for the money spent. I agree with the fines but the state should get reimbursed for the cost to catch them. more cars and boats and houses should have been confiscated and more jail time should have been handed out. just my opinion.
> sherman


3-5 years in jail will cost the tax payers more than the investigation did. Fine them 5 times more than they did in my opinion. Take all vehicles, equipment and businesses from every single person involved in the crimes. Let them clean up the litter on the roads with a poacher sign on their backs every weekend of the year for 10 years as well.

I’d rather the drunk drivers be in jail. You have multiple offense dui people all over this state that are far more dangerous to the public than a bunch of poachers. They’re going to still poach license or not.


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

So true


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

bobk said:


> 3-5 years in jail will cost the tax payers more than the investigation did. Fine them 5 times more than they did in my opinion. Take all vehicles, equipment and businesses from every single person involved in the crimes. Let them clean up the litter on the roads with a poacher sign on their backs every weekend of the year for 10 years as well.
> 
> I’d rather the drunk drivers be in jail. You have multiple offense dui people all over this state that are far more dangerous to the public than a bunch of poachers. They’re going to still poach license or not.


Well said bobk.
Not only picking up litter but there are always plenty of roadkill laying alongside the roads rotting in the sun. Instead of paying a civil servant to go pick these up or simply throw lime on the carcass, send these criminals out on their days off their jobs to pick them up. There's also plenty of labor they could be sentenced to do pertaining to the ODNR/conservation that is currently being done by paid employees.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

You gotta figure too that those numbers are what they had proof of, what about all the game and fish they got away with.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

bobk said:


> 3-5 years in jail will cost the tax payers more than the investigation did. Fine them 5 times more than they did in my opinion. Take all vehicles, equipment and businesses from every single person involved in the crimes. Let them clean up the litter on the roads with a poacher sign on their backs every weekend of the year for 10 years as well.
> 
> I’d rather the drunk drivers be in jail. You have multiple offense dui people all over this state that are far more dangerous to the public than a bunch of poachers. They’re going to still poach license or not.


I totally agree with you in principle. but as a tax payer i'd be more than willing for my tax dollars to go towards housing these creeps and discouraging others from doing the same crimes. more jail time would help discourage others. what we need is a good old chain gang.

I have a brother who is in prison right now for driving to many times on suspended license because he lost them for to many dui convictions. the threat of jail doesn't deter a drunk from driving. I think the 2nd time should be 1 yr in jail. just to threaten with jail time doesn't work. actual jail time for dui's and poachers might make them think twice before doing it again. these were not your average poacher. but an organized poaching ring.
sherman


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I feel the cost of the investigation and court proceeding cost's incurred by the ODNR should have been totaled and then divided by the number of involved individuals (irrespective of involvement level) and levied as fines in addition to Court imposed fines.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

The problem with putting people in jail for what we think would cure their problems is over crowding. If enforcement has to turn them loose and hope they don't do it again it's all that can be done. We all want justice, but our enforcement would have to ask the public for higher taxes to pay for more jail space and that would take years. My sister is in enforcement and she has been in court rooms where the crime would have been put in jail but their jail was full!


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

ress said:


> The problem with putting people in jail for what we think would cure their problems is over crowding. If enforcement has to turn them loose and hope they don't do it again it's all that can be done. We all want justice, but our enforcement would have to ask the public for higher taxes to pay for more jail space and that would take years. My sister is in enforcement and she has been in court rooms where the crime would have been put in jail but their jail was full!


I have a friend who is a defense attorney in wood county. His strategy is simple. Get your client to be bumped to the back of the docket. By the time they go before the judge there are not any vacancies left and they get probation.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

I think that there are far worse things going on in society more worthy of incarceration than Game and Wildlife violations.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

Shortdrift said:


> I feel the cost of the investigation and court proceeding cost's incurred by the ODNR should have been totaled and then divided by the number of involved individuals (irrespective of involvement level) and levied as fines in addition to Court imposed fines.


I guess you have the right idea. make them reimburse the state for all expenses incurred in the case. confiscate houses, cars, boats, fishing and hunting gear used in any way with the crime. taking money out of there pocket for the next 10 or 20 yrs plus replacing all the stuff confiscated would be a good punishment. but they hit them with fines and probation. they did confiscate a few things but not nearly enough. give them hundreds of hours of community service to be worked off after work and on weekends.



ress said:


> The problem with putting people in jail for what we think would cure their problems is over crowding. If enforcement has to turn them loose and hope they don't do it again it's all that can be done. We all want justice, but our enforcement would have to ask the public for higher taxes to pay for more jail space and that would take years. My sister is in enforcement and she has been in court rooms where the crime would have been put in jail but their jail was full!


instead of 5.5 billion to build a wall that wont work, take the money and build more prisons. this should have already been done. put a man in prison even for 1 yr and give him 6 months off for good behavior will do a lot more than 1 yr in a county jail. my son is in jail and he lives better than I do except he is locked up. to release guys from prison because of overcrowding is one thing but not sending them in the 1st place is wrong. send them long enough so they get a taste of prison life before releasing them. im not saying every poacher should go to prison. some poachers just get caught up in the moment and make a mistake. but these guys was organized and committed the crimes over yrs. its just untelling how long they had been doing this before the dnr got on to them. if you cant make them pay back the money let the punishment fit the crime. bring back the chain gangs to repair roads and clean up roads. this would save a lot of good money thats paid for this work.
sherman


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

I don't know why they weren't prosecuted under the RIcco act? After all it was an organized crime syndicate, or am I delusional? The DNR , did a great job. It's the legal system that let these scumbags get lesser sentences. Believe me this isn't an isolated incident. Crimes of this kind happen every day. I personally knew several people at work who were killing deer on their way home from work. This took place in 4 counties around the Carrollton area.4 or 5 deer a week, and that was just one person. 
They were caught, and most lost just about everything they owned. Some of these crimes were committed on federal lands. The state turned over the cases to the federal courts and the penalties were what one defense attorney deemed harsh for a group ( hillbillies).
In fact it was far from a group of hillbillies! This enterprise involved a few Canadians, that actually funded them, and fled back to Canada, to resume their criminal activity, until the Canadian government caught them. 1977& 78, over 1.6 million worth of fish,game,and illegal guiding for people who couldn't get a deer in Ohio and several states nearby. Just a damned shame that these people don't care about the law.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

^^^ When crimes/cases are bounced over to the Federal level from either state,county or city, the penalties on the Federal level for the same crime are usually much more severe.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Why those guys should be allowed to hunt or fish again is beyond me.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> Why those guys should be allowed to hunt or fish again is beyond me.


I agree, WE pay taxes (along with other fees) for the security, maintenance, conservation, etc. for OUR natural resources. These people exploited our natural resources and stole from us all IMO.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Snakecharmer said:


> Why those guys should be allowed to hunt or fish again is beyond me.


This is not enforceable whether it be 10 days or a lifetime.


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## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

ress said:


> The problem with putting people in jail for what we think would cure their problems is over crowding. If enforcement has to turn them loose and hope they don't do it again it's all that can be done. We all want justice, but our enforcement would have to ask the public for higher taxes to pay for more jail space and that would take years. My sister is in enforcement and she has been in court rooms where the crime would have been put in jail but their jail was full!


Most of the people in prison now do not belong there.....It's time to start dispatching and making room for those that due belong there.


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## Gottagofishn (Nov 18, 2009)

46 Defendants?.. For poaching??? Well, there certainly isn't a shortage of folks willing to step outside of the law for a buck. Looking at numbers like that I imagine we can expect poaching to continue to be alive and well. I wonder how many are working out there that haven't been caught. 
It's hard enough to manage our resources without poachers! Or do they consider poaching when setting limits?


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

KaGee said:


> This is not enforceable whether it be 10 days or a lifetime.


That's correct KaGee.
We don't have any laws that are 100% 'enforceable'. 
Criminals are going to be criminals regardless of laws...after all, these criminals(as all criminals)knew they were breaking existing laws from the onset.
But looking ahead, if the convicted were banned from hunting/fishing and were to ever be caught again legally hunting/fishing(which would then again be poaching) more strict punishments could be handed down and it would at least make a defense attorneys job much harder to defend them. 
I hope the felonies these criminals are convicted of carry the same stature of not being able to own, posses or be around any firearm and hope the judge specifically includes any weapon that can be used for hunting. 
I'm not so sure about the lengthy incarceration time sentences.
That's just not going to happen in most cases due to overcrowding.
But I am totally all for extreme sentence's of lengthy mandatory community services as well as loss of materialistic items and very heavy financial penalties at least equaling the cost of the total investigation as well as all court cost for convictions.


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

Home incarceration (I don't know what it's called) make their family pay for there room and board.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

ducknut141 said:


> Home incarceration (I don't know what it's called) make their family pay for there room and board.


Honestly, I don't think the death penalty would satisfy you. 

You ever jaywalked? Drive above the speed limit? In a school zone? Build something without a permit? Cheated on your taxes? I could go on... Because you know you have broke the law in some form in your life. You want these guys in jail... Well I want you in jail as well because you have broken the law at some point in your life and that deserves punishment. 

However, we still have some rational judges that understand the difference between justice and judgement. What you want is heavy handed judgement. Remember what the good book says... Judge not less you also be judged.


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

No I don't speed I spent 32 years looking at what driving fast causes and then needing to drive fast because of it. I STOP at stop signs too. I do not and have not cheated on my taxes. God forbid I would NEVER endanger a child. I have had to stay within the law all of my adult life or it could have cost me my job. Would you like to ask any more stupid questions? Heavy handed judgement is what is needed everywhere today in everything not just this. People think they can do what they want, say what they want and who cares who it hurts as long as it't not them. Those people need to be held accountable. I gave my body and most of all my mind to my community. I have never asked for anything from anyone I have just tried to go through life without effecting others in a negative way. how about you?


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

I have had many discussions with my lovely wife re: "crime v. punishment" ... much of it centered around our son who was your normally rambunctious, red blooded American boy ... my argument was and is, if there's nothing punitive for bad behavior, what's to keep anyone from doing whatever they want to ... back in the day, if I was being really stupid, the "warning" was a crack across my butt, which inevitably got my attention ... grounding, taking away privileges, etc. ... myself and most people I hang with got it and have had productive lives and nobody's been to jail ... the problem with WAAAYYY to many parents and judges is that they give far to many "2nd" chances to people who don't deserve them ... to many bleeding hearts thinking that career criminals will respond to kindness and common sense and become productive members of society because that's the right thing to do ... if they had those things, they probably wouldn't be criminals ... bring back those chain gangs and work groups, tough bananas if they don't like it, let them actually pay their debt to society in a tangible way, not a vaca in a swanky prison ... think of the workers you'd have to do stuff like cleaning streets, picking up trash, etc, you could get a lot of stuff done ... I don't like a lot of things but don't break laws just because ...


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

...


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

The best part of the case i read was the list of defendants at the end. I think that list should be posted in every newspaper in the state... IMO (Matter of fact.. My friend worked at WCMH ) Gonna send this to him right now.. See in the news media are still cowards!!


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

That's a great idea. Sporting goods stores and meat markets that will handle wildlife should have there names also. Maybe not posted but available if they start bringing in meat.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

I sent the pictures and the link to Fox News in Columbus.. Why not?
(Kudos to the ODNR!!!)


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## Fishon1546 (Mar 15, 2014)

Great job by the ODNR and a shameful job done by the court system. They don’t deserve to Hunt or Fish again


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

JamesF said:


> I don't know why they weren't prosecuted under the RIcco act? After all it was an organized crime syndicate, or am I delusional? The DNR , did a great job. It's the legal system that let these scumbags get lesser sentences. Believe me this isn't an isolated incident. Crimes of this kind happen every day. I personally knew several people at work who were killing deer on their way home from work. This took place in 4 counties around the Carrollton area.4 or 5 deer a week, and that was just one person.
> They were caught, and most lost just about everything they owned. Some of these crimes were committed on federal lands. The state turned over the cases to the federal courts and the penalties were what one defense attorney deemed harsh for a group ( hillbillies).
> In fact it was far from a group of hillbillies! This enterprise involved a few Canadians, that actually funded them, and fled back to Canada, to resume their criminal activity, until the Canadian government caught them. 1977& 78, over 1.6 million worth of fish,game,and illegal guiding for people who couldn't get a deer in Ohio and several states nearby. Just a damned shame that these people don't care about the law.


I think the crime has to be ongoing for so many yrs.



KaGee said:


> Honestly, I don't think the death penalty would satisfy you.
> 
> You ever jaywalked? Drive above the speed limit? In a school zone? Build something without a permit? Cheated on your taxes? I could go on... Because you know you have broke the law in some form in your life. You want these guys in jail... Well I want you in jail as well because you have broken the law at some point in your life and that deserves punishment.
> 
> However, we still have some rational judges that understand the difference between justice and judgement. What you want is heavy handed judgement. Remember what the good book says... Judge not less you also be judged.


I doubt that any of us have gone through life without breaking a few laws. but you need to understand there is a big difference in what we do and the concerted organized crimes they were committing.

I got caught for speeding while passing a car. I got up to 70 in a 55. I did the crime and paid the fine. even though I didnt think it was right. because everybody speeds when there passing. but I paid the 135.00 fine because I was in fact speeding. 
sherman


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

Jail time? For fish and wildlife violations? Seriously?

Hit 'em where it hurts the most, and that's in the wallet. Just like a someone who cheats on their spouse, a poacher is always gonna be a poacher. Revoking hunting and fishing privileges is not going to stop them from poaching/over-bagging.


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## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

BFG said:


> Jail time? For fish and wildlife violations? Seriously?
> 
> Hit 'em where it hurts the most, and that's in the wallet. Just like a someone who cheats on their spouse, a poacher is always gonna be a poacher. Revoking hunting and fishing privileges is not going to stop them from poaching/over-bagging.


If i understood the totals and my math is correct on average the 46 people paid $3225.00 each and had their license revoked for on average 1.7 years.

Hell, if i only cost me 3,225 a year to chase deer ,turkey waterfowl and fish my wife would be ecstatic.
So for somebody that does not care and will likely do it again, i dont see where this is a big deterrent for future poachers


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## bustedrod (May 13, 2015)

holy crap and i worry about miss counting perch and getting chkd at the dock. but what these people pulled is totally absurd, i take it personally what they did, they are stealing from all of us. i try real hard to play by the rules so our resources will be here in the future, sure we all have fudged here and there but that crap these people pulled , ?????? i hope you people read this , or hear about it because your all ass h..s and you didnt get what you deserve , and im telling you about it...and if i came face to face with those people i iwould spit in their face.. how do you like me now ???????????????????????????


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

BFG said:


> Jail time? For fish and wildlife violations? Seriously?
> 
> Hit 'em where it hurts the most, and that's in the wallet. Just like a someone who cheats on their spouse, a poacher is always gonna be a poacher. Revoking hunting and fishing privileges is not going to stop them from poaching/over-bagging.


...and their time!
Again...very heavy fines plus heavy mandatory community service time preferably working with the ODNR in some aspect.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

we missed counted our walleye and got checked by odnr. we were 2 fish over and was charged 15.00 for each fish plus 28.00 court cost that we had to post in the form of a cash bond. if we didnt show up for court our fine and court cost was paid. the leo was a great guy that we treated with respect. when all was said and done he told us he was supposed to take all the fish. but we had been so good about everything he would only take the 2 we was over and let us keep our limits. the bottom line is we made an honest mistake. we knew we were in the wrong. but he said it was a small infraction of the law but it was an infraction. we did the crime and we paid the fine. had we been jerks we would have lost all our fish. but split 6 ways we paid less the 10.00 each. we didnt have a clue who was over.

these people didnt make a mistake counting there game they just hoped if they got caught the fines would be low and jail time suspended. boy was they right.

in Indiana they charge a set fine plus whatever the court charges them. I think they charge 1000.00 for any deer violation to start with. then they pay what the courts deems right.

with the jail time at a minimum or suspended all together the fines was not enough to deter them or others from poaching. it there not going to hand out jail time the fines should fit the crime.
sherman


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

(TWITTER)










Found this on Twitter...
Can you say ...VIRAL?


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## Ed b (Aug 30, 2017)

bobk said:


> 3-5 years in jail will cost the tax payers more than the investigation did. Fine them 5 times more than they did in my opinion. Take all vehicles, equipment and businesses from every single person involved in the crimes. Let them clean up the litter on the roads with a poacher sign on their backs every weekend of the year for 10 years as well.
> 
> I’d rather the drunk drivers be in jail. You have multiple offense dui people all over this state that are far more dangerous to the public than a bunch of poachers. They’re going to still poach license or not.


You can not poach from JAIL!!!!


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Ed b said:


> You can not poach from JAIL!!!!


That sounds great but you have no grasp on what is going on with the legal system. We have NO room in the jails for poachers. Wake up to what is going on in the real world as far as the amount of criminals that are running loose due to no room in jails for them. I'm talking criminals that will eventually harm another human because they have no place to lock them up. Poachers are a low form of life on this earth for sure, but to think they should be locked up over the wife beaters, multiple offense drunk drivers and thieves of the world is just plain silly. It's rather sad that some here seem to put more value on a fish or deer over an innocent human being harmed or killed from a life long criminal. 

I guess if you haven't been personally harmed and financially effected by a criminal that was turned loose because of overcrowded jails you just can't comprehend what criminals should be locked up first.


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## undertaker (Jan 20, 2013)

Orange jump suits with POACHER in bold letters across their back, clean up at a different public boat launch each weekend over spring, summer fall season. Weed whack mow grass whatever. Or maybe a fish cleaning station , wearing the same jump suits , cleaning fish for free for anyone that stops. These things should be added on to sentencing


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## s.a.m (Feb 22, 2016)

undertaker said:


> Orange jump suits with POACHER in bold letters across their back, clean up at a different public boat launch each weekend over spring, summer fall season. Weed whack mow grass whatever. Or maybe a fish cleaning station , wearing the same jump suits , cleaning fish for free for anyone that stops. These things should be added on to sentencing


Can't imagine how good of a job they'd do cleaning fish!


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Ed b said:


> You can not poach from JAIL!!!!


So if you had your rathers, would you rather have a poacher living next door... or a heroin dealer or thief/burglar living next door.
The obvious answer is none of the above. But with the overcrowding in our jails, there has to be some reasoning with other forms of punishment other than jail time for crimes that do not pose a threat to other humans but are still crimes non the less.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

undertaker said:


> Orange jump suits with POACHER in bold letters across their back, clean up at a different public boat launch each weekend over spring, summer fall season. Weed whack mow grass whatever. Or maybe a fish cleaning station , wearing the same jump suits , cleaning fish for free for anyone that stops. These things should be added on to sentencing


Nah. Cleaning Porta-pots sounds much better.


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## Wilddav (Apr 22, 2008)

KaGee said:


> 1) A license doesn't mean anything to people like these.
> 
> 2) The fine and legal costs will be financially devastating to most.
> 
> ...


Jail time thats what i want....


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

To be fair I haven't read anyone say they would rather see a poacher in jail then a wife beater or thief.... just that people wished these guys would spend jail time. 

And jaywalking vs poaching=apples vs oranges...


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

fastwater said:


> So if you had your rathers, would you rather have a poacher living next door... or a heroin dealer or thief/burglar living next door.
> The obvious answer is none of the above. But with the overcrowding in our jails, there has to be some reasoning with other forms of punishment other than jail time for crimes that do not pose a threat to other humans but are still crimes non the less.


I understand what you guys are saying. but they only got a smack on the wrist. if there not going to spend time in jail they should have been fined a lot more and all there tools should have been confiscated, houses, cars, trucks, all hunting and fishing gear. then many many hours of community service. even tho it don't take a license to poach they should have lost there hunting and fishing privilege for life. if you know your neighbor isn't allowed to fish and hunt you would be more likely to turn them in if you see them hunting or fishing. otherwise why take any of there privileges away. for what they did they got away with it. the state would have been thousands ahead to have just went to them and asked very nicely for them to stop poaching.

these guys probably made thousands selling animals and fish. the cost to them was minimal. as long as poachers make more than it cost's if they get caught then the same guys are going to keep poaching.

I knew a guy that shot a doe by mistake. there was a bush in the background he thought was antlers on the deer's head. after he shot and seen he had shot a doe he went and reported it. he lost the privilege to hunt with a gun of any kind for 5 yrs plus a large fine. this guy made a mistake and took the responsibility for his mistake. he was treated like a criminal that made a habit of poaching. there was no doubt about these guys being guilty of ongoing poaching. most of them got less than this guy that made an honest mistake.

my brother is serving 3 yrs for driving on suspended license. he wasnt drinking but lost his license for dui. but if the prison system has room for him for driving on suspended then they could make room for organized poaching. even if they have to let them out early. they may not want to go back bad enough to keep poaching. looking at the fact they come out money ahead even if they get caught isn't much of a determent.
sherman


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## bustedrod (May 13, 2015)

hahaah lets ask trump what he thinks haaahh


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

sherman51 said:


> I understand what you guys are saying. but they only got a smack on the wrist. if there not going to spend time in jail they should have been fined a lot more and all there tools should have been confiscated, houses, cars, trucks, all hunting and fishing gear. then many many hours of community service. even tho it don't take a license to poach they should have lost there hunting and fishing privilege for life. if you know your neighbor isn't allowed to fish and hunt you would be more likely to turn them in if you see them hunting or fishing. otherwise why take any of there privileges away. for what they did they got away with it. the state would have been thousands ahead to have just went to them and asked very nicely for them to stop poaching.
> 
> these guys probably made thousands selling animals and fish. the cost to them was minimal. as long as poachers make more than it cost's if they get caught then the same guys are going to keep poaching.
> 
> ...


...and I agree that the $ amount for fines plus loss of materialistic items plus the length of community service time should be set at a rate to which it is a very heavy deterrent as well.
I also believe that repeat offender when caught should not only get the same very heavy financial and materialistic losses but should be faced with jail time also. After all, if the person was so dumb not to learn the first time around...the punishment should be more strict the second time around. 
I think more harsh 'time for the crime' for repeat offending is the same lesson most of us started learning as kids from our parents...the first screw up we didn't like for sure...turn around and do the same stupid thing again...and the rath and thunder would be something we would not likely forget. Ask me how I know.


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## Hatchetman (Apr 13, 2004)

Why do some people have to write a short, or not so short, story when they respond to a post? Also FW is right, heavy fines, some public embarrassment, like pics in local paper and lic suspension. The lic suspension actually doesn't accomplish anything,doesn't stop em from doing anything....


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

sherman51 said:


> we missed counted our walleye and got checked by odnr. we were 2 fish over and was charged 15.00 for each fish plus 28.00 court cost that we had to post in the form of a cash bond. if we didnt show up for court our fine and court cost was paid. the leo was a great guy that we treated with respect. when all was said and done he told us he was supposed to take all the fish. but we had been so good about everything he would only take the 2 we was over and let us keep our limits. the bottom line is we made an honest mistake. we knew we were in the wrong. but he said it was a small infraction of the law but it was an infraction. we did the crime and we paid the fine. had we been jerks we would have lost all our fish. but split 6 ways we paid less the 10.00 each. we didnt have a clue who was over.


Why would he be able to confiscate the other 6 fish from each person? You are legally allowed with your license to keep 6. Those fish were legally yours. The other two? Theirs. 

Interesting what an over-bagging per fish fine is depending on where you get caught. Ask anyone who gets caught over-bagging in the Maumee river how much each one over costs....it's a helluva lot more than $15 a fish.


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## garhtr (Jan 12, 2009)

BFG said:


> Interesting what an over-bagging per fish fine is depending on where you get caught. Ask anyone who gets caught over-bagging in the Maumee river how much each one over costs.


 The difference is intent, making a mistake vs intentionally keeping to many fIsh, big difference in having 4- 5 limits and 1 fish extra in a box vs 1 extra on a stringer hanging on your belt. How do you "accidentally"keep one extra on the river ?
Games wardens I've run into are pretty good judges of character and like most police will let you skate on by with "accidents".
Good luck and good fishing !


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Wonder what ODNR is going to do with all those mounts...What a shame...


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

BFG said:


> Why would he be able to confiscate the other 6 fish from each person? You are legally allowed with your license to keep 6. Those fish were legally yours. The other two? Theirs.
> 
> Interesting what an over-bagging per fish fine is depending on where you get caught. Ask anyone who gets caught over-bagging in the Maumee river how much each one over costs....it's a helluva lot more than $15 a fish.


we got caught back in the early 80's. I would expect the fine to be much more now than it was then. 30 yrs from now they should charge more than they do now.

im just guessing here but by having over our limit trumped our right to keep the 6 fish limit. he said he was supposed to take all fish for evidence. with him having only 2 fish if we had went to court it would have been his word against the 6 of us saying we wasnt over. he would have no proof we was over. so I think he did us more than right letting us keep our limits. but we showed him respect and aided him as much as we could. he was alone in a dark parking lot with 6 guys from Indiana that he didnt know. but it was just a mistake that we made. but it was a cheap lesson to do a better job counting from then on. another guy and myself wanted to just throw the 2 fish away once we seen we was over. but we was out voted and kept the fish. we was in the process of cleaning the fish when the guy pulled up.

some yrs back my brother and me made a trip to the Maumee just to check it out. as we was standing around a group of guys came to there car with a limit of fish. they opened the trunk to put there fish in and was surrounded by odnr agents. it seems they had already caught one limit and placed them in the trunk. the odnr confiscated both limits for evidence. plus they had to go post bond or go to jail. without evidence the odnr wouldnt have much of a case if it went to court.
sherman


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

fastwater said:


> ...and I agree that the $ amount for fines plus loss of materialistic items plus the length of community service time should be set at a rate to which it is a very heavy deterrent as well.
> I also believe that repeat offender when caught should not only get the same very heavy financial and materialistic losses but should be faced with jail time also. After all, if the person was so dumb not to learn the first time around...the punishment should be more strict the second time around.
> I think more harsh 'time for the crime' for repeat offending is the same lesson most of us started learning as kids from our parents...the first screw up we didn't like for sure...turn around and do the same stupid thing again...and the rath and thunder would be something we would not likely forget. Ask me how I know.


AMEN BROTHER! they got off to easy.

but mom had us go get the switch she was going to use. after the 1st time it was a rarity for there to be a second time. however as I got a little older I got a little wiser. when mom sent me to get a switch I came back with a good looking sassafras limb. after about the 3rd blow the limb would shatter. my older brother thought he would be smart. he started running to the bed laying on his back with his feet up taking most of the licks. my oldest brother made a horse whip for a school project. mom started to whip my older brother and he ran to the bed. mom was behind him and seen the whip laying on the washer. she picked it up and gave my brother his due. it was the last time he went to the bed. my mom was a very small woman and with no dad around and a bunch of bid strapping boys she did what needed done.
sherman


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## Tim67 (Mar 21, 2013)

fastwater said:


> Well said bobk.
> Not only picking up litter but there are always plenty of roadkill laying alongside the roads rotting in the sun. Instead of paying a civil servant to go pick these up or simply throw lime on the carcass, send these criminals out on their days off their jobs to pick them up. There's also plenty of labor they could be sentenced to do pertaining to the ODNR/conservation that is currently being done by paid employees.


I agree 100% there Fastwater, get 'em out doing jobs that the state and Counties have pay people to do that are less than desirable jobs. But tasks that need to be done. Such as you said roadkill, litter pick up, I can think of several waterways that need shoreline clean up. Think maybe 1000 - 2500 hours each would make a nice dent. And the funds saved could be spent in more positive ways, land acquisition, stocking some of the lakes that have been hurt by over fishing and by algae blooms. Point is a lot of good could be done with a more effective punishment.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

I don't think they should have been put on jobs that others get paid to do. that would just create unemployment for those people doing those jobs. then those people would be out of work and most would end up getting food stamps costing the tax payer more than putting the bad guys in jail. put them doing things that don't get done by paid employees. they could start by wearing orange jump suits that says poacher front and back. then they could clean up trash on lake and river shorelines, along roads, any place that doesn't have regular crews to do it. on roads that don't have clean up crews for road kill they could clean them up. I went to the sports show in Cleveland one year and couldn't believe all the dead deer on I-71 from Columbus to Cleveland. these could have been cleaned up by poachers. grass mowed and weed eat in places that doesn't have regular crews for a better looking ohio. put them to helping road crews to patch chuckholes. the crews we have now cant even start to keep up. 2000 hrs is a yearly amount of hrs with 2 weeks vacation. they should have gave each of them 2000 hrs of community service. with them holding a job it would take them a few yrs to work off 2000 hrs. but that would give them time to think twice before doing it again. make them work at least every other weekend plus some afternoons for guys working midnights an days. let the guys that works afternoon shift put in time in the morning. i'm all for fines and cost's and these types of punishment. but these guys got away with a slap on the wrist. a very few got just a taste of what they deserved. the others not so much.
sherman


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