# Is it the end?



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

WELL....After 30 plus years in the tool and die field, my employment ended on the 16th of this month, a family owned shop with 190 employees. Posistion elemination is what I was told. At 55 I'm looking at other options now, I've never went through somthing like this before and looking back I gave my heart to those people just to be dumped on in the end. I've had many calls and texts from the others I worked with stating shock and disbeleif at what has happened. I was training 10 young men from the age of 17 to 22 how to be a toolmaker. Im looking into being my own boss and working for a business called Federal fire and home safety. They have been around since 1970 and have 250 distrubitors in the united states. I'm alittle unsure as my severance was 4 weeks vacation pay after 20 years with my company. This means I have to act fast as unemployment won't support my fishing habits. Any thoughts or advise would be helpful as my wife was ordreded to end her employment by a few different Doctors and at 58 it will take her a few years for ssd to kick in. I had reservations about posting this as I don't want anyone to feel sorry for us as I know we will be fine. I have came to know and trust alot of people on here after 7 years and value SOME of your opinions ......sort of a shock at 7 years till retirement....THANKS for any advise Tom


----------



## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

Sounds like you were training your replacement?..thats bull...best of luck.


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

wow, that sucks ... I've had numerous jobs just disappear on me, but except for self employment never worked anywhere for more than 3 yrs. ... every time that's happened I was always able to look back on some event that should have raised my suspicions ... a new hire, budget changes, doing things different, somebody said something I should have paid attention ... didn't make sense at the time but at that point became crystal clear ... managers job I have now, the constant veiled threats about job security for things out of my control have me, as well as my colleagues, wondering when something's going to happen ... there looks like some handwriting on the wall, but by the time you decipher it it's often to late ... especially when you get some seniority, they can get your job done for less, even if it's not as good it's still good enough, there's no job security for anyone any more, no loyalty from employers who just see the bottom line and keep asking you to do more with less ... and not always a lot from employees either, I've seen both sides ... keep your spirits up, when one door closes, another one is opening somewhere


----------



## fishmeister (Jul 29, 2004)

Well that really stinks, sorry to hear about this. Loyalty and dependability are not rewarded the same as they used to be.
I can offer advice only if you choose not to go into business for yourself. Do not shortchange your experience and any skills that you might have outside of your previous employment. Employers are looking for skillsets, not necessarily someone who has held a specific type of position. One time I left my public sector job and my wife helped me write a resume and land a job that I really didn't think I could get. The key was thinking about the things that I could do, not just the goals that I had accomplished. Think about action verbs like "planned, advised, administered, etc". Here is a decent list.... http://lh4.ggpht.com/-fibD44MvmG8/U...r%2520letters_thumb%255B4%255D.png?imgmax=800

I'm sure others on here will have excellent advice. Hang in there.


----------



## Gottagofishn (Nov 18, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your job. If my wife were here she would say something like "When one door closes another one opens", she is so irritating sometimes cause she is so right most of the time...
I retired at 55 so I could look for a job I liked. My only regret is that I waited till I was 55. This is probably your golden opportunity! It may not seem like it at the moment but with your abilities and attitude I'm sure it will turn into something great. Hang in there, it will all be good at some point.
Starting your own business might be just the ticket. If not, try something you're passionate about, go to school for it. If you're going to look for a job, as stated, a new resume with transferable skills listed for the job you are applying for is needed. After 30 years you have plenty to offer.
Best of luck!
Al


----------



## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

I'm 57 and walked away from the job I was doing for 17 yrs (3 different companies, this last one 7 years). It was a dead end and I was tired of it. A friend of mine asked if I'd come work for the company he is with so I went to talk to them. Ended up working for them (been a month and a half). I like the work although it is physically more demanding than what I did before (Master Level Harley Tech). Yes, I was nervous about the prospect of starting over at my age but it was a good move for me. You didn't have a choice but I'm sure there is something good out there that will fill the bill for you. Good luck.


----------



## doegirl (Feb 24, 2005)

I am glad I found this thread. My apologies to the OP for the sudden loss of his job. That's hard.
I have recently decided myself to change careers. After 12 yrs of being a nurse I'm calling it quits. At 41, I'm way far away from retiring. I am actually looking at the skilled trades and I keep gravitating towards becoming an electrician.
It's great to see people in their mid-fifties and older make career changes and do what they want to do. It gives me, and I hope the OP, encouragement.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Thanks to all of you.....always can depend on people who fish and hunt. It's like a brotherhood. T.


----------



## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

Exactly why I started a lawn care service 2 years ago...quit working for the federal govt after 9 years because all of the bull...I'm my own boss now (other than my customers)...and on top of that I make good money and I'm blessed to not have to work over winter which leads to a lot of hunting, fishing and family time...just gotta bust my butt in the summer...never been happier...


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

I'm going it alone for 3 months...see what happens


----------



## capt j-rod (Feb 14, 2008)

I have gravitated away from the 9-5. I have rental property. The secret that has been overlooked for years is to avoid debt. You will be fine Saugeye. Just control the spending and enjoy the freedom. I've thought about starting a thread on this, but too many people will destroy it. Cook at home rather than eating out. Enjoy parks and outdoors. Ride a bike. Have a campfire. I quit spending money on stupid disposable crap and eating out. Unbelievable how much money slips between the cracks. The icing on the cake is the "millennial" work ethic. You are in more demand than you think.


----------



## Aaron2012 (Mar 26, 2014)

Sorry to here this Tom. If you are looking for a job as a tool maker the company work for is always hiring. I'm cnc not tool and die but they are always hiring toolmakers. Pm me if your interested.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Damn sorry to read this Tom. I don't have any advice on future employment but sure with you all the best if you go with Federal. A positive spirit will get you through.


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Well Tom, I can help. I am in need of couple new boat anchors. Sell me couple glocks.


----------



## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

Whoa! I'm sorry to hear it Tom. That's exactly how I lost my job.

I'm glad to hear that you can allow yourself some time to figure things out.
I agree 100% with capt j-rod; I don't know if it applies to you or not, but we paid off a couple of debts we had (new truck) with some of our retirement investments to become debt-free. It didn't hurt us in terms of retirement, but removing that small pressure turned out to be very freeing in terms of how many options there were we could consider!

I'll be praying about it all for you and your family.


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

My wife and brother both found themselves in a similar position along their career paths.
My brother an electrical engineer after losing his job decided to become a handyman his last 10 years of his working years. He had to adjust his focus and change his budget but he did just fine. He built the business to the point he could pick and choose the jobs and clients he wanted to work for. He retired this past December at age 66. Loosing that job was the best thing that happened to him.
My wife left a really good job to go to work for a person who was trying to build up her own small business. That lady was great at what she did and there were newspaper articles about her and her work. Unfortunately she had no business plan and in less than a year she folded the business and went to work for someone else. This left my wife (and others)without a job so after looking around for a few months for something my wife decided to start out on her own. She had a degree in horticulture so she started a personal gardener business for a more upscale clientele. It took a little time to figure it out but overall she did just fine. She was around 52 years old when it all happened and she retired in Jan 2015 @ 63 years old.
To both of them it sure wasn't an end, it was the beginning to a new life and they wouldn't dream of going back to their old jobs. My wife had plenty of offers to go back to her original career but she hated sitting at a desk so she always passed.
You have a skill you can always fall back on if you need to but I would take a little time and just see what else is out there before I leaped into anything.
I wish you well in your endeavors.


----------



## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Not by a long shot my friend....


----------



## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

I worked in the machine shop field for over 30 years. Take comfort in the fact that your skills are highly sought after. A lot of companies big and small would appreciate your skills. There are still quite a few around that like us old timers. Some shops are just going with a youth movement. It's a shame.


----------



## fishhogg (Apr 16, 2009)

ST, Hand in there brother. You will see a light at the end of the tunnel, and it won't be the train rushing at you! Had something similar happen to me at age 49. Tried to make a career change, and 3 months later found myself unemployed, and my confidence shaken a little. Take a deep breath, you are about to find out who your friends are. That's the one of the best things that will come of this. You also have an opportunity to make a change if you want. I would think that machinist skills would be sought after. I went back to work in my industry, but with a new attitude. I decided to get my Captains license, formed an LLC, and trying my hand at a little guiding. What I am saying is that the good Lord does not give us more than we can handle, so put a smile on your face, and go get them. It is your time!


----------



## Deadeyedeek (Feb 12, 2014)

fishhogg said:


> ST, Hand in there brother. You will see a light at the end of the tunnel, and it won't be the train rushing at you! Had something similar happen to me at age 49. Tried to make a career change, and 3 months later found myself unemployed, and my confidence shaken a little. Take a deep breath, you are about to find out who your friends are. That's the one of the best things that will come of this. You also have an opportunity to make a change if you want. I would think that machinist skills would be sought after. I went back to work in my industry, but with a new attitude. I decided to get my Captains license, formed an LLC, and trying my hand at a little guiding. What I am saying is that the good Lord does not give us more than we can handle, so put a smile on your face, and go get them. It is your time!


Good advice fishog..been through same, something good allways comes out of something bad!! Take a deep breath, take some time to think about what will make yo u happy(employment) Find something you really love to do, and figure out how to make a living at it. Good luck to you both, everything allways works out!!!!


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Dovans said:


> Well Tom, I can help. I am in need of couple new boat anchors. Sell me couple glocks.


Lmao. Somehow I knew this would come up....etu brute'?


----------



## moondog5814 (Apr 8, 2007)

I am 59 and have been through a couple plant closings and several layoffs throughout the years. Had to move up here in the Cleveland area back in 1985 from WV, because of the lack of jobs. If you were at that company for 30 years, consider yourself lucky. At 55, you still have a lot to offer. Many companies are looking for older people because they know they are dependable. Keep your head up, maybe take some classes at a school of your choosing, and move forward. I always like to think that when one door closes, another one will open. In my case, the door has almost always opened to something better. Good luck with your situation.


----------



## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Saugeye Tom said:


> WELL....After 30 plus years in the tool and die field, my employment ended on the 16th of this month, a family owned shop with 190 employees. Posistion elemination is what I was told. At 55 I'm looking at other options now, I've never went through somthing like this before and looking back I gave my heart to those people just to be dumped on in the end. I've had many calls and texts from the others I worked with stating shock and disbeleif at what has happened. I was training 10 young men from the age of 17 to 22 how to be a toolmaker. Im looking into being my own boss and working for a business called Federal fire and home safety. They have been around since 1970 and have 250 distrubitors in the united states. I'm alittle unsure as my severance was 4 weeks vacation pay after 20 years with my company. This means I have to act fast as unemployment won't support my fishing habits. Any thoughts or advise would be helpful as my wife was ordreded to end her employment by a few different Doctors and at 58 it will take her a few years for ssd to kick in. I had reservations about posting this as I don't want anyone to feel sorry for us as I know we will be fine. I have came to know and trust alot of people on here after 7 years and value SOME of your opinions ......sort of a shock at 7 years till retirement....THANKS for any advise Tom


You could do worse than a gig at Home Depot.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Saugeye Tom said:


> Lmao. Somehow I knew this would come up....etu brute'?


And it wasn't me! Lol keep your sense of humor Tom.


----------



## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

bobk said:


> And it wasn't me! Lol keep your sense of humor Tom.


For some reason I have the idea that it was just a matter of time bobk.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

I'm rebuilding my arsenal. I'll let loose at a predetermined time.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

bobk said:


> I'm rebuilding my arsenal. I'll let loose at a predetermined time.


Lol I'll be watching closely


----------



## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

Stay strong Tom and best of wishes that things turn your way.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Thanks Jim


----------



## Fishingisfun (Jul 19, 2012)

Tom, someone will be looking for your skills and I believe you will find employment in your field. A few friends have been down the same road of being cut lose after many years loyal service and for a few the end of employment at someone else's business making them money turned into a time of self employment that was the best financial outcome possible in the long run. Best of luck.


----------



## bruce (Feb 10, 2007)

Tom you said your wife was told by more than one Dr to stop working? Is that not an endorsement for her to file for disability? If her health is in ? Tom stay strong, look forward, you step in **** and come out smellin like a rose. Bruce


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

bruce said:


> Tom you said your wife was told by more than one Dr to stop working? Is that not an endorsement for her to file for disability? If her health is in ? Tom stay strong, look forward, you step in **** and come out smellin like a rose. Bruce


 yes....we've started the process.....ugh


----------



## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

Saugeye Tom said:


> yes....we've started the process.....ugh



Be prepared for having the first attempt turned down, which time you will probably need an attorney to eventually get it approved.


----------



## Tbomb55 (Nov 27, 2008)

Tbomb55 said:


> You could do worse than a gig at Home Depot.


They match on your 401k and offer co.stock purchase as an option.


----------



## OrangeMilk (Oct 13, 2012)

That happened to me about 6 years ago. My boss got paid a bonus on how much our division profited and he had lost the top two accounts without replacing them. Then one day he pulls into the lot in a new car and I knew I was done. He couldn't sell for a profit so he cut the expenses to get a profit. Four people got let go. Sad part was the let him go 5 months later and rehired people for the four positions he had removed, two people went back but not me. I finally finished my degree instead and never looked back, doing great now. 

Wife and I have spent the last two years paying off debt like crazy, we are down to the house, my student loans and the whole house electrical we had done.


----------



## chatterbox (Jan 7, 2013)

My wife had to go on disability, and it took 5 years to get workers comp. and social security with there own doctors saying see could not work. DO NOT GO WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY!!!!!!!!! FIND ONE THAT ONLY COLLECTS IF THEY WIN..... FEEL FREE TO PRIVATE MESSAGE ME AND I'LL GIVE MY WIFE'S ATTY. OUT OF COLUMBUS INFO. He was on the board that wrote Ohio Worker's Comp Law, and will travel to any court location.

I am a journeyman machinist and took an early buy 0ut last August. There are a lot of larger better paying companies that will hire older skilled tradesmen at a good dollar and benefits. Don't get discouraged there are jobs out there that want You. Good Luck.


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

What really bothers me about today's Corporate work place, is they dont have any damn manners. I was recently disciplined for helping a female coworker and I was told not to. That the particular job she was doing did not have hours for two. Its like I am not doing anything, I can help.


----------



## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Fishingisfun said:


> Tom, someone will be looking for your skills and I believe you will find employment in your field.


This. ^^ 
Yours is a valuable skill & there will be someone looking for _your_ experience &_ proven_ work ethic. I spent 12 years delivering metals to almost every shop in SW Ohio. One of them needs you. Get out there & stir the dust. 

Good luck!


----------



## polebender (Oct 29, 2011)

Sorry to hear of your loss of employment! Companies just don't value loyalty anymore! It's all about the money, regardless of the years of sweat and blood you have given to them. 
I haven't met you but from what I've read and seen on this site about you, with your personality you shouldn't be without a job for long. Stay positive and good luck to your new future! I truly wish you the best!


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

polebender said:


> Sorry to hear of your loss of employment! Companies just don't value loyalty anymore! It's all about the money, regardless of the years of sweat and blood you have given to them.


Its amazing that I've actually seen this transformation int the 16 years I've worked for this one company. I have always believed it actually started in 2007.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

polebender said:


> Sorry to hear of your loss of employment! Companies just don't value loyalty anymore! It's all about the money, regardless of the years of sweat and blood you have given to them.
> I haven't met you but from what I've read and seen on this site about you, with your personality you shouldn't be without a job for long. Stay positive and good luck to your new future! I truly wish you the best!


thank you pb I always try to see the positive but the wifey seems to differ


----------



## bellbrookbass (Sep 20, 2013)

Sorry to hear this Tom. Best of luck on future endeavors. Everything happens for a reason and all will be well in the long run.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

thx just a shock to the system


----------



## MuskyFan (Sep 21, 2016)

I use to do my hardest, heaviest thinking from a treestand. Made some great decisions while perched in a tree. Go fishing, relax and think about what it is YOU want to do. Make some changes in priorities and work toward them. Like Momma said, life ain't a bowl of cherries at times and things change despite our best efforts. Look at the work future as a clean slate. Don't turn away from things you think you're not qualified or good enough for. I do believe all things, good and bad, happen for a reason. You may never know why but there is one. Keep your head up, looking forward, and you'll do fine.

My old boss called me yesterday to ask how I was doing. I knew he was "fishing" as this is the time of year he looks for new techs. Told him I was good (and I meant it) and that I didn't miss working on bikes one bit. I'm very happy with the change and hope I am this time next year. I don't see a reason I wouldn't.


----------



## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Hang in there Tom... you're an intelligent guy with a skilled trade on your resume...


----------



## Spike Dog (Mar 13, 2015)

Saugeye Tom the company i work for posted record profits last year. We just bought a (nother) building, in Monclova (Toledo). The word from on high is that we bought the building with the expectation of hiring Good People from the Toledo area. I think you fit the bill. Do you want to drive to Toledo everyday? Hit me up on PM


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Spike Dog said:


> Saugeye Tom the company i work for posted record profits last year. We just bought a (nother) building, in Monclova (Toledo). The word from on high is that we bought the building with the expectation of hiring Good People from the Toledo area. I think you fit the bill. Do you want to drive to Toledo everyday? Hit me up on PM


lord thats a drive for me id have to take a sleeping room....but its closer to erie.....


----------



## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Saugeye Tom said:


> lord thats a drive for me id have to take a sleeping room....but its closer to erie.....


... and St Claire...


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

9Left said:


> ... and St Claire...


yup you be a tease......


----------



## flyman01 (Jan 23, 2013)

Unfortunately, this type of practice is occurring more often in the private sector, I hear of it almost daily. Not going to make this a political matter however the increasing costs associated to running a business with respect to healthcare, taxes etc., it becomes difficult for privately held businesses to remain competitive and to make a profit. When this becomes an issue, there is little choice other than to cut operational expenses and the personnel typically affected are those who have been with the organization for a duration of time; they are the highest overhead. 

I am a business owner and I have had some lean times where I had to sacrifice income to be able to cover payroll and not cut an employee or two. The last thing I want to do is to tell a person who has worked his butt off for me/company that he no longer has a job, on the other hand I do not want to lose the business I worked hard to build either; It is a difficult position to be in at times.

Tom, I am sorry you were subject to a loss of employment; I know it had to be a shock to you after all your years you devoted to the company. You have a great skill set, I have no doubt in my mind that you will land on your feet in a short amount of time. A wish for good luck in your future endeavors is unnecessary; you will succeed on your own merits my friend.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

thank you and its true. I wittnessed some poor desisions made by management over the years too. I offered to go on the road in sales for them more than once to help out to no avail though! Thanks again for the kind words Flyman !!


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

had a come to Jesus meeting w/2 bosses today ... if me and several co-workers can't meet what the bosses consider reasonable goals we could be looking for jobs ... if we had the resourses we needed the goals are unreasonable, and we don't have those resources ... when you try to explain it to 2 college educated eggheads, they accuse you of being insubordinate and having a bad attitude and threaten your job ... blatantly tell you there is no option and threaten to fire you if you don't make a miracle happen ... these folks have no problem flogging us with more work than we can handle and making an issue when it's not done, no matter how hard we work they just keep piling it on ... yet they wonder why morale is low ... not like Peter Pan flies in his window every night and takes him away, but boss was astounded to hear that most of the staff feel that way ... he's really got his finger on the pulse of the business


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

baitguy said:


> had a come to Jesus meeting w/2 bosses today ... if me and several co-workers can't meet what the bosses consider reasonable goals we could be looking for jobs ... if we had the recourses we needed the goals are unreasonable, and we don't have those resources ... when you try to explain it to 2 college educated eggheads, they accuse you of be insubordinate and having a bad attitude and threaten your job ... blatantly tell you there is no option and threaten to fire you if you don't make a miracle happen ... these folks have no problem flogging us with more work than we can handle and making an issue when it's not done, no matter how hard we work they just keep piling it on ... yet they wonder why morale is low ... not like Peter Pan flies in his window every night and takes him away, but boss was astounded to hear that most of the staff feel that way ... he's really got his finger on the pulse of the business


Those collage boys will be looking soon too as they are putting out unatainable goals


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

many of the unattainable goals come from eggheads in an Ivory tower with no real idea of what we do or what it takes to do that ... they just make up a standard that makes them look good and meets some corporate goal that they very well could be getting a bonus for and think that if they say it enough times, telling you how wonderful it is, how much easier it's going to make life, cram it down your throat until you're choking on it, and threaten your job that you can just snap your fingers and make it happen ... none of them has ever done our jobs in any capacity, they're all bean counters, but they know how to do them better and easier and of course much faster because some other egghead told them that's how it should be ... point out a flaw in their logic and risk having your head handed to you ... give them the tools and have a lugh as they try to figure out which end to use and what it does ... holy cow manure, is that a bird  no a plane  maybe a drone wait, think I just saw a pig flying overhead  maybe it is reasonable  not ...


----------



## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

baitguy said:


> had a come to Jesus meeting w/2 bosses today ... if me and several co-workers can't meet what the bosses consider reasonable goals we could be looking for jobs ... if we had the recourses we needed the goals are unreasonable, and we don't have those resources ... when you try to explain it to 2 college educated eggheads, they accuse you of being insubordinate and having a bad attitude and threaten your job ... blatantly tell you there is no option and threaten to fire you if you don't make a miracle happen ... these folks have no problem flogging us with more work than we can handle and making an issue when it's not done, no matter how hard we work they just keep piling it on ... yet they wonder why morale is low ... not like Peter Pan flies in his window every night and takes him away, but boss was astounded to hear that most of the staff feel that way ... he's really got his finger on the pulse of the business


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

baitguy said:


> had a come to Jesus meeting w/2 bosses today ... if me and several co-workers can't meet what the bosses consider reasonable goals we could be looking for jobs ... if we had the recourses we needed the goals are unreasonable, and we don't have those resources ... when you try to explain it to 2 college educated eggheads, they accuse you of being insubordinate and having a bad attitude and threaten your job ... blatantly tell you there is no option and threaten to fire you if you don't make a miracle happen ... these folks have no problem flogging us with more work than we can handle and making an issue when it's not done, no matter how hard we work they just keep piling it on ... yet they wonder why morale is low ... not like Peter Pan flies in his window every night and takes him away, but boss was astounded to hear that most of the staff feel that way ... he's really got his finger on the pulse of the business


You work where I do?


----------



## Aaron2012 (Mar 26, 2014)

Dovans said:


> You work where I do?


So we all work at the same place?


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

I'm sure our bosses all drink from the same batch of Kool Aid ...


----------



## flyman01 (Jan 23, 2013)

Some companies believe that negative motivation will get more out of employees, it can also have an adverse affect which is decreased quality/production and or burnout. Some places will intentionally do this as a means to decrease costs by pushing older, higher overhead employees to the brink that they walk off the job or go elsewhere. If they quit, the company at this point can deny unemployment if filed, they hire younger more physical people at a reduced rate with no accrued vacation time; they can even offer signing bonuses and be dollars ahead.

On the other hand, some of these guys who are pushing others for more are just pawns on a chessboard, they are given directives from CEO's of unrealistic numbers and told "find a way to make it happen".


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

flyman01 said:


> Some companies believe that negative motivation will get more out of employees, it can also have an adverse affect which is decreased quality/production and or burnout. Some places will intentionally do this as a means to decrease costs by pushing older, higher overhead employees to the brink that they walk off the job or go elsewhere. If they quit, the company at this point can deny unemployment if filed, they hire younger more physical people at a reduced rate with no accrued vacation time; they can even offer signing bonuses and be dollars ahead.


Yup.... its going to bite them in the behind though. I am already seeing it where I work.


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

Flyman, you're right about them being pawns for the bigger bosses, and also about being able to hire young guys cheaper, but the poop runs downhill and eventually it splatters everyone ... they keep hiring people and basically lying to them about the job description and actual responsibilities and expect them to do things under an entirely different set of circumstances than was advertised ... new guys get fed up fast, it's a revolving door and there's never enough continuity, we're always training new people ... when you try to point out some of those things, big shots get rude and pull rank ... at our place there are 2 rules ... Rule 1 - Boss is absolutely, w/o question, positively, always right ... Rule 2 - If boss is for some reason somehow ever wrong, even if it's a plain as day and he's staring at the proof, see Rule 1 ... Common sense is very uncommon any more


----------



## flyman01 (Jan 23, 2013)

baitguy said:


> Flyman, you're right about them being pawns for the bigger bosses, and also about being able to hire young guys cheaper, but the poop runs downhill and eventually it splatters everyone ... they keep hiring people and basically lying to them about the job description and actual responsibilities and expect them to do things under an entirely different set of circumstances than was advertised ... new guys get fed up fast, it's a revolving door and there's never enough continuity, we're always training new people ... when you try to point out some of those things, big shots get rude and pull rank ... at our place there are 2 rules ... Rule 1 - Boss is absolutely, w/o question, positively, always right ... Rule 2 - If boss is for some reason somehow ever wrong, even if it's a plain as day and he's staring at the proof, see Rule 1 ... Common sense is very uncommon any more



I will not contest anything you are saying baitguy other than to add that companies with "Bosses" have the most failures; places of business with "Leaders" boast successes.


----------



## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

flyman01 said:


> I will not contest anything you are saying baitguy other than to add that companies with "Bosses" have the most failures; places of business with "Leaders" boast successes.


Exactly.


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

flyman01 said:


> I will not contest anything you are saying baitguy other than to add that companies with "Bosses" have the most failures; places of business with "Leaders" boast successes.


LOL! I laugh because where I work, the store manager is now referred to as store leader.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

flyman01 said:


> Some companies believe that negative motivation will get more out of employees, it can also have an adverse affect which is decreased quality/production and or burnout. Some places will intentionally do this as a means to decrease costs by pushing older, higher overhead employees to the brink that they walk off the job or go elsewhere. If they quit, the company at this point can deny unemployment if filed, they hire younger more physical people at a reduced rate with no accrued vacation time; they can even offer signing bonuses and be dollars ahead.
> 
> On the other hand, some of these guys who are pushing others for more are just pawns on a chessboard, they are given directives from CEO's of unrealistic numbers and told "find a way to make it happen".


The thing is, they did'nt push me out...I ran the show where i worked. But i found out today, others have lost their job or been demoted.,.,.,


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Dovans said:


> Yup.... its going to bite them in the behind though. I am already seeing it where I work.


Wells Fargo?? But this has been going on much much longer than that. Probably centuries. Its the "easy" approach. Doesn't take much thought. Demand more, get more right???

Tom, first off take some time and do a bunch of fishing! You get a severance? How about their competition? Any contacts you've made during those years that might be able to use your services?


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Wells Fargo?? But this has been going on much much longer than that. Probably centuries. Its the "easy" approach. Doesn't take much thought. Demand more, get more right???
> 
> Tom, first off take some time and do a bunch of fishing! You get a severance? How about their competition? Any contacts you've made during those years that might be able to use your services?


MB I plan on that. They gave me my Vacation pay as a severance. I was a bit bitter but I guess they didn't have to give me anything. 4 weeks pay for 20 years. Also A nice letter of recomendation. I guess at some time i signed a no competion clause....5 years


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

vaca pay of 4 weeks for 20 years of service and expertise is better than nothing but not special by any means ... there are few publicly owned companies that give a rats butt whether you live in your car or in a cardboard box under a bridge (no offense to those who do) as long as they make margins, and many private ones aren't much better ... we live in an age of what did you do for me in the last day or so to make me rich or who needs you, some young guy will do it cheaper ... no where near as good as you do but happy to have a job and oblivious for the time being to where they will be in a few years ... and the quality almost always suffers ... the no compete stuff can be subject to interpretation, might want to chat w/a lawyer


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

i had to sign a paper that said I would'nt sue...under duress a bit but its not worth it. I'll find somthing else.Thx bait guy


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

Saugeye Tom said:


> i had to sign a paper that said I would'nt sue...under duress a bit but its not worth it. I'll find somthing else.Thx bait guy


I love it ... they can your butt because they don't want to pay you any more and you have to sign off  probly to get that generous severance check I'm guessing  if they didn't want you to sue, there must have been something they were concerned about so they're just CYA ... no competes are such BS ... one job I got dismissed from wanted me to sign a no compete for things that I not only have been doing all my life but also that I brought to their table that they didn't have before and it wasn't some super top secret process anyhow ... they needed someone to help them get the plant set up and running and I had done that before, then they didn't need me any longer because basically they got what they wanted and hired someone with no experience to monitor that process for about half of what I was making, which wasn't enough anyhow ... laugh and it didn't go well when the state inspectors found out, but that's another story, I did get some satisfaction from that  I refused, but they weren't offering any severance other than unemployment ... ain't America great


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

MAGA


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

They cant prohibit you from making a living at what you do. You didnt quit your were let go. the clause should not be a factor. If I were you I'd run for a political office and then punish the **** out of them.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

LOl killin me! Mayor of dayton tax em to death


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Dovans said:


> They cant prohibit you from making a living at what you do. You didnt quit your were let go. the clause should not be a factor. If I were you I'd run for a political office and then punish the **** out of them.


tthks for the edit. My apologies


----------



## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

flyman01 said:


> Some companies believe that negative motivation will get more out of employees, it can also have an adverse affect which is decreased quality/production and or burnout. Some places will intentionally do this as a means to decrease costs by "pushing older, higher overhead employees to the brink that they walk off the job or go elsewhere".


Amen! I worked for a large company in the office for 38 years and did my job every day of it. After about 30 years, sometime after I turned 50, I felt I had a big bullseye on my back. One year under a new "boss"/manager I had an annual review. Since I was in a newly created position doing something other than what the others in his group did he told me he couldn't put me in for a salary increase(which indicated a "good" review) since "he really didn't know What I did, or How well I did it"! and actually mentioned that I was near the top end of my classification pay scale and had to "take care" of the other/younger people(millemials!), most of whom screwed off most of their day! After talk of a "major lay-off" couple years later, the frowns, head shakes, and glances over shoulders, along with "rumors", I'd finally "had it" and decided to retire a little earlier than I really wanted! So much for a "good work ethic and dedication" to your employer!! I walked away and never looked back.
To the OP, excuse my diversion and best wishes for you in the future. Try to look at it like perhaps they've done you a "favor" and allowed you to hopefully start over in a new place and capacity.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

c. j. stone said:


> Amen! I worked for a large company in the office for 38 years and did my job every day of it. After about 30 years, sometime after I turned 50, I felt I had a big bullseye on my back. One year under a new "boss"/manager I had an annual review. Since I was in a newly created position doing something other than what the others in his group did he told me he couldn't put me in for a salary increase(which indicated a "good" review) since "he really didn't know What I did, or How well I did it"! and actually mentioned that I was near the top end of my classification pay scale and had to "take care" of the other/younger people(millemials!), most of whom screwed off most of their day! After talk of a "major lay-off" couple years later, the frowns, head shakes, and glances over shoulders, along with "rumors", I'd finally "had it" and decided to retire a little earlier than I really wanted! So much for a "good work ethic and dedication" to your employer!! I walked away and never looked back.
> To the OP, excuse my diversion and best wishes for you in the future. Try to look at it like perhaps they've done you a "favor" and allowed you to hopefully start over in a new place and capacity.


Thanks Stone, I know how ya feel Almost 8 years of perfect reviews and the last one i finally was put in for a raise. never got it....I was eliminated but it was a favor in disquise i think


----------



## Tom 513 (Nov 26, 2012)

Tom, the work ethics us older folks have are valuable to employers, you have a skill that is hard to find now days, your situation could be a blessing in disguise. My wife and I are going through a similar deal, she has worked for a local hotel for 26 yrs, it is being sold and the new company will offer zero benefits, no 5 weeks of vaca no health insurance or additional hourly pay, we are now shopping for health insurance..... and oh yeah my Harley Davidson is for sale now.


----------



## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Tom513... I disagree, the work ethics of " older" and "more experienced" people are completely disregarded anymore by companies. The only thing that they see now is that they would have to pay those people more for their experience, and they just don't want to do that . it just seems that it's easier for them to hire the new guy with no experience and they can fill their heads full of crap and pay them the same crap wages. it's just their way of " cutting corners" and meeting a budget"


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Tom 513 said:


> Tom, the work ethics us older folks have are valuable to employers, you have a skill that is hard to find now days, your situation could be a blessing in disguise. My wife and I are going through a similar deal, she has worked for a local hotel for 26 yrs, it is being sold and the new company will offer zero benefits, no 5 weeks of vaca no health insurance or additional hourly pay, we are now shopping for health insurance..... and oh yeah my Harley Davidson is for sale now.


Lord no....not the Harley


----------



## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

I guess I'm just lucky.
The company I worked for asked me if I'd give them a 2 year notice before I retired. Normally they would replace someone from within, from someone already there but there really wasn't any decent candidates. Their thought was they wanted 1 year to look for someone and one year to train. I was 62 at the time so I said no problem...consider this your notice. It was a 2 years 2 months notice.
Mind you this is third generation and these guy's father (the guy I worked for) had passed away about a year prior. Everyone told me not to tell them because I would be let go. I wasn't prepared to retire just them but I thought "oh well, I'll work it out". They weren't even looking for my replacement but a guy showed up looking for a different job who fit the bill and it had been only a month since my notice.
The new guy and I had a little of a rocky start and I thought this isn't good but we worked out our differences and all went well. Through out the whole 2 year time period both the owners and the new manager said I didn't have to leave and I was welcome to stay on as long as I wanted. Even the day they had a retirement luncheon for me one of the owners told me I was welcome to stay at any capacity I wanted, for as long as I wanted.
All the owners are accountants. One day one of them called me about a year before I left and just wanted to make sure I was in a good financial position to make the transition, again reinforcing I could just cut back and continue to work if I wanted.
I brought this up only because I just wanted to point out that not all owners or accountants are bad.
I know I'm not alone. My hunting buddy retired at the same time and he was constantly asked his last year to stay on and could work a shortened work schedule if he wanted.
I know for a fact a lot of companies are looking for older workers.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

crappiedude said:


> I guess I'm just lucky.
> The company I worked for asked me if I'd give them a 2 year notice before I retired. Normally they would replace someone from within, from someone already there but there really wasn't any decent candidates. Their thought was they wanted 1 year to look for someone and one year to train. I was 62 at the time so I said no problem...consider this your notice. It was a 2 years 2 months notice.
> Mind you this is third generation and these guy's father (the guy I worked for) had passed away about a year prior. Everyone told me not to tell them because I would be let go. I wasn't prepared to retire just them but I thought "oh well, I'll work it out". They weren't even looking for my replacement but a guy showed up looking for a different job who fit the bill and it had been only a month since my notice.
> The new guy and I had a little of a rocky start and I thought this isn't good but we worked out our differences and all went well. Through out the whole 2 year time period both the owners and the new manager said I didn't have to leave and I was welcome to stay on as long as I wanted. Even the day they had a retirement luncheon for me one of the owners told me I was welcome to stay at any capacity I wanted, for as long as I wanted.
> ...


Yes you are blessed! Most companies are not that way!! T.


----------



## capt j-rod (Feb 14, 2008)

This is the new work environment... I worked construction for 9 years in all different trades. Winter comes, get laid off, find work, repeat... I asked an employer what I needed to do to get into the office. He laughed and said start with a college degree. Well, I enrolled in school and graduated 4th in my class in Mechanical Engineering school. Got my first job as an HVAC design build engineer. Finally! at age 27 I had arrived! Well turns out that there wasn't anything to design, much less engineer, and I was basically tuned into a plan and spec job estimator/project manager. I decided to roll with it but it was miserable. You had to deliver low bid and find a way to make it happen. Field guys didn't like the timeline, bosses and owners got pissed if you didn't get the bid, and I was literally pulling my hair out stuck in the middle. After trying this I decided it was easier and less stressful to put the tools back on and cash the checks. A few old timers guided me through financial boot camp and I bought a rental property. They wouldn't let me put on the tools at the company I was with, so I switched jobs. Tried the engineering route again, same results different company. Bought another rental. Finally I decided to go in business for myself, do more with less, and I've never looked back. My wife works for a hospital and they have done the same to her. I just keep adding properties, fixing and installing HVAC, running rentals and paying off all debt. At age 38, I can honestly say that there is plenty of work if you are willing to pick up the tools. I will honestly say that I hope to never return to the 9-5 slave driving rat race. As Saugeye and I have discussed above, the secret to avoiding all of this is to not compromise your life with an obsession for more status symbol junk and debt. Will you miss that Harley? Maybe, but you can ride an old Honda and be free from the debt. Don't forget... You love to ride, not to be seen on a Harley! I love to fish, I dont need to be in a $90k Ranger to go fishing.


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

This weekend, where I work, they said we were not meeting what we should with customers. so they doubled the demand. but didnt double the staff. Yet, today, get out of here your on overtime. (didnt argue I boogied)


----------



## capt j-rod (Feb 14, 2008)

All anyone can do in any job is collect their wage and make the most of it. This logic will be useful from 30k up to 300k. Wage makes no difference when it comes to employee/employer relationships


----------



## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

Every employer is different. If you're not happy with your employer/employee relationship, find a new one. Just like dating. Don't stress yourself out over a job until you have a heart attack. The one time I was laid off, I was relieved as much as I was upset because the stress of the job was giving me an ulcer. I ended up finding a great job a month later! 

I understand the disconnect between the office worker and field/factory guy. I've been on both sides. I worked at a machine shop for a few months before starting college. I wanted the higher paying office job. My dad started at the same machine shop and retired many years later as the general manager. Even as the manager, he would go in early and make some parts to get the job done on time if needed. I've had my disagreements with the field guys occasionally, but we have worked it out. 

I try to stop and think about the issue from the other guy's perspective to get a clearer picture of the issue. Don't sweat the small stuff either. If you're picking on every little thing that's not done the way you expect it, then they won't listen to you when there is a big issue.


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Laughed at my manager yesterday.... We use ipads with readers to swipe CC to pay for product. All of our readers have gone bad. We now have to punch the number of the CC into the Ipad. We get "dinged" on our production reports for doing so. I asked the manager whats up with that. Why cant we hand key the numbers. He told me, cause it takes 4 seconds longer. couldnt help but laugh. Two weeks ago I stepped down from my management position. Can not deal with the corporate BS anymore. With just a couple years to go for retirement... the extra money not worth the extra stress.


----------



## capt j-rod (Feb 14, 2008)

It's ironic that every time a promotion is given, the responsibility never reflects the wage. The higher you go, the higher the chance for getting fired. Every job or season is measured against your best. If you suggest a three year average you are shunned. Everything today has to be instant gratification and instant increase in both money and efficiency. I think it ultimately stems from the high turnover. If you aren't planning on being there in five years, then we need to do it now. Seems like success in the workplace is only done for a better resume for the next big thing. What is horrible to me is raising two very smart little girls and trying to teach them this without sounding like a crazy bitter and angry person. I am loyal to my wife, kids, family, and closest friends. I will never give my life to an employer who only looks at last weeks numbers.


----------



## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

^^^Yep^^^
Before retiring, we had a saying at work..." the higher up you go the closer you get moved to the door".


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

fastwater said:


> ^^^Yep^^^
> Before retiring, we had a saying at work..." the higher up you go the closer you get moved to the door".


That's not an untrue statement ... I've always found that the more you make, the more unreasonable they get about what you're supposed to do for it ... my bosses think we can walk on water just because they say it's possible ... like has been mentioned, I don't sweat anything I can't control, no matter how much someone doesn't like my attitude ... the serenity prayer starts with
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference."
whether you're religious ot not, that makes a lot of sense ... I leave it at work when I leave work ... ain't no job worth stroking out over ... when you're seeing the handwriting on the wall, it's probably not a hallucination ...


----------



## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

^^^Those are some good thoughts to live by. ^^^^


----------



## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

another verbal beating today for me and most of what remains of the staff  2 hours telling us individually and as a group that if we can't get the overwhelming amount of work they want done in our 11 hour days, we're expected to come in on days off and work for free to make it happen  or we might not have a job  what's wrong with that picture ... they're setting everyone up to either work for free or fail to meet the goals and get dismissed ... even the guy who has been to this point a good company suck-up is getting pissed ...


----------



## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

baitguy said:


> another verbal beating today for me and most of what remains of the staff  2 hours telling us individually and as a group that if we can't get the overwhelming amount of work they want done in our 11 hour days, we're expected to come in on days off and work for free to make it happen  or we might not have a job  what's wrong with that picture ... they're setting everyone up to either work for free or fail to meet the goals and get dismissed ... even the guy who has been to this point a good company suck-up is getting pissed ...


Not quit sure that that meets a Ohio labor laws. Thinking it may be illegal.


----------



## reyangelo (May 28, 2014)

Been reading the thread, like many have said "one door closes, another will open". Past couple years I have been learning to downsize our lifestyle and to get rid of as much debt as possible. Basically told the wife a couple years ago we need to plan of my company letting me go. I have been here 18yrs this coming Spring and I can surely feel it coming. Just unreal having this type of conversation but reading/listening to some folks, it happens enough. The days of working 20+ years for a company is on the low percentage side. Even at my job, there are not that many folks having over 15 years. In the end, only path available is moving forward. Goodluck on future ventures Tom and still looking forward to hit the GMR with you one day soon.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

reyangelo said:


> Been reading the thread, like many have said "one door closes, another will open". Past couple years I have been learning to downsize our lifestyle and to get rid of as much debt as possible. Basically told the wife a couple years ago we need to plan of my company letting me go. I have been here 18yrs this coming Spring and I can surely feel it coming. Just unreal having this type of conversation but reading/listening to some folks, it happens enough. The days of working 20+ years for a company is on the low percentage side. Even at my job, there are not that many folks having over 15 years. In the end, only path available is moving forward. Goodluck on future ventures Tom and still looking forward to hit the GMR with you one day soon.


Not working untill july unless somthing i love comes along.....lets do it mr. Angelo


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

i have no idea


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Just a little update.....I was forced to take a job today...lol i hadn't planned on starting until fall but its a great company and they put a good offer out there for me. Thanks for everyone's comments. Maybe ill get to fish more now....wife feels sorry for me


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

It's about time you did something you slacker.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

bobk said:


> It's about time you did something you slacker.


Lol. I still have till the 17th of july


----------



## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Saugeye Tom said:


> Lol. I still have till the 17th of july


We have to get another fishing trip in before then.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Saugeye Tom said:


> Lol. I still have till the 17th of july


I'm jealous. Enjoy, it will go really fast.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

bobk said:


> I'm jealous. Enjoy, it will go really fast.


Wish I had your job.....


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

fastwater said:


> We have to get another fishing trip in before then.


most certainly.


----------



## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

Good to hear you landed on your feet ST.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Thanks CG


----------



## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

fastwater said:


> We have to get another fishing trip in before then.


Don't tell Brother Bubba.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Lazy 8 said:


> Don't tell Brother Bubba.


Lol. He's still in the hoosgow


----------



## A-5 (Apr 9, 2017)

Congrats on the Job. It's the best you have a month to relax and you know your working in July makes it a great feeling. I've lost jobs before it sucks. God bless you and your family.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Saugeye Tom said:


> Wish I had your job.....


I wish you had my job too!! Then I could fish like you used too.

All joking aside congrats on getting some stable groceries. That crap is fun for a while then you get nervous. At least I did.


----------



## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Lazy 8 said:


> Don't tell Brother Bubba.





Saugeye Tom said:


> Lol. He's still in the hoosgow


Besides... Bubba works for us now.


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

A-5 said:


> Congrats on the Job. It's the best you have a month to relax and you know your working in July makes it a great feeling. I've lost jobs before it sucks. God bless you and your family.


Thx a5...gonna miss swamp people though


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

bobk said:


> I wish you had my job too!! Then I could fish like you used too.
> 
> All joking aside congrats on getting some stable groceries. That crap is fun for a while then you get nervous. At least I did.


Yep....thought o was gonna have to take a job just to take one in August..thx bobk


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

fastwater said:


> Besides... Bubba works for us now.


He still got his shock collar on ?


----------



## PromiseKeeper (Apr 14, 2004)

Congrats Tom. Hope it is a good one for you.


----------



## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Saugeye Tom said:


> He still got his shock collar on ?


Absolutely!
And eagerly awaiting the guy sending funny seeds in the mail.
With you going back to work, you most likely won't have time for your side law practice. Shame on those we know that are soon to become very close roomies with Bubba.
Though your legal expertise will be greatly missed, the field you are moving into will benefit greatly by having you aboard. 
Again, Congrats to you my friend.


----------



## James F (Jul 2, 2005)

Now you can feel at ease knowing that you can provide for your family and yourself. I hope you can enjoy your new job,God knows I hated mine for 43 years. At 66 i have no desire to work for anyone again,forced into exile by my company and the state.All due to almost being killed on the job!! Please don't get injured at work! You will basically lose all control of your life,due to State run socialists that feel they know you and your health more than you yourself do .Not my fault the state can't count coins,stamps and other bad choices made by crooks at the state level.Oh and its all for your health and welfare,because We don't know any better!!! Been set up for many lost jobs nothing like training your replacement.Did that in Vietnam,should have learned from that one. Duh! Again good luck and God bless.


----------



## Aaron2012 (Mar 26, 2014)

Glad to hear you have a job lined up Tom. I hope everything works out well for you and your family.


----------



## A-5 (Apr 9, 2017)

Saugeye Tom said:


> Thx a5...gonna miss swamp people though


Lmbfao. Mine was 24 till three in the morning boy was that fun. I have a large family and I work 6 days a week. Got layer off and had sometime. I guess God knows we need the rest sometimes lol. But yea 24 was my obsession then. Netflix!


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

A-5 said:


> Lmbfao. Mine was 24 till three in the morning boy was that fun. I have a large family and I work 6 days a week. Got layer off and had sometime. I guess God knows we need the rest sometimes lol. But yea 24 was my obsession then. Netflix!


Yup my new hours are 5 to 330 so I'll have to be up at 345.....ugh


----------



## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

Tom, did you ever consider a job in the legal field?


----------



## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Lazy 8 said:


> Tom, did you ever consider a job in the legal field?


under the table


----------

