# New Petition !!! Wake Up Call For Ohio Catfishermen!



## mrfishohio

This is pretty much what we are going to circulate and ask for concerned sportsmen to make copies of & circulate to bait shps & tackle stores. There will also be a signup sheet, please print up enough for about 200 signatures. These will all be collected & counted later. An article is in the works which will be circulated (soon) to all the fishing magazines & websites. Make you voices heard.  


WAKE UP CALL FOR OHIO CATFISHERMEN! 

It is time for Catfishermen who enjoy our sport to wake up
to what is happening to our resources. The following is a 
post from the Brotherhood of Catfishermens' board and should
serve as a wake up call for all of us!
FLATHEADS USED FOR BEER MONEY!
July 19 2004: Guys, what I saw today make me sick and really 
mad...I went down to one of my favorite flathead spots on the
Scioto River here in Ohio..I met up with a group of guys who 
had the ground covered in beer cans. They were complaining 
that they had caught no flatheads as of late...I asked them if they
had caught any at all this year and was told they had caught 
quite a few and sold them to paylakes! Which is illegal in Ohio.
One of them said he hoped they would start hitting again soon
because they were running out of beer money. In 1985 my logs
show I caught and released 23 cats over 20 lbs in June of that 
year alone, now I am lucky to catch 4-5 per year!

Our resources are being exploited for private profit, it is time
to gets some regulations in place calling for INTELLEGENT
HARVEST and regulating pay lakes to make sure they are 
following the letter of the law.

1) Follow the example set by Tennessee and establish a slot 
limit which will protect all catfish caught over 34 inches setting
a bag limit of 1 per day. 
2) Establish regulations that require Pay Lakes notify ODNR 
and stock under ODNR supervision, and require that the Pay
Lake owners have paperwork showing these fish were obtained
in a legal manner. 
3) Request the State of Ohio work with KY, IN, and WVA and try 
to establish slot limits on the Ohio River which Mirror those of
the state of Tennessee. Requiring release of any catfish over 34
inches caught on a commercial liscense, and setting a 1 fish per
day bag limit on catfish ove 34 inches caught under sports 
fishing liscensing.


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## mrfishohio

We the Undersigned would like the state of Ohio to establish 
regulations protecting Catfish resources:
1) Set Slot/Bag limits on all catfish over 34 inches, limiting 
possession to 1 per day on all licenses.
2) Regulate Pay Lake stocking, requiring them to be stocked under
ODNR supervision, and requiring owners of Pay Lakes to have valid
proof fish stocked were taken by legal means.
3) Work with the all states sharing Ohio Boundry waters to establish
Regulations mirroring those established by the state of Tennessee:
a) Commercially licensed fishermen required to immediately release
all catfish caught over 34 inchs.
b) Restricting all sports fishing licensed fishermen to a bag limit
of 1 fish per day on all Catfish over 34 inches.

Name (Print) City State Signature Date
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## mrfishohio

We the Undersigned would like the state of Kentucky to establish regulations protecting Catfish resources:
1) Set slot limits mirroring those established the state of Tennessee:
a) requiring all catfish over 34 inches caught on commercially
issued licenses be released, alive, immediately.
b) establish a bag limit of 1 (one) fish per day on all catfish over 34
inches per day caught on sports fishing licenses.
2) Establish regulations preventing the on-going exploitation of our
Trophy Catfish by out of state pay lake owners using commercial licenses purchased through the state of Kentucky.

Name (Print) City State Signature Date
_____________ __________ _____ __________ __/__/___
_____________ __________ _____ __________ __/__/___
In order to save web space, I'm not putting up all the lines for signatures, you can just add a sheet of legal pad, etc.


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## mrfishohio

A *big* 
Thank You for your support !


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## twistertail

Dont take this the wrong way but will these petitions ever make a difference? I support what you are trying to do 100% and have signed every one of your online petitions for catfish regs but nothing has changed. Does the DNR not care what the general public thinks? Or does the opions on these petitions not reflect the general public and maybe its just a small number of catfisherman that want the regs so it will never happen so as to keep the majority of the catfisherman happy??


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## Fishyguy

Twistertail, dont take this the wrong, but the only way to make a difference is in numbers. The more people who voice their opinion the better. I hear what you are saying, but its when a stink is raised that the people who can make these changes get to work. I do hear what you are saying though. I tried earlier in the year to get support from members on here to help me try to get the Cincinnati Rec. Commision to drop the launch fee's at the ramps in this area to the Ohio River. I couldn't get the support. The rec. commision said if I had proof that others didnt like the 10 fee's they would look into lowering it. I couldnt get one person to e-mail them their thoughts, so the rec com. basically laughed in my face. The thing that we have in our favor with the catfish petition is that other places have changed their rules and things are now better off, all we need now is some dedicated people out there to speak up and be heard. The more involved the better. I will help in any way possible. The catfishing has gotten alittle worse on the river year by year. Go to other rivers around the U.S. and catching a 40+ pounder is pretty much a regularity given you know where to fish. Catch a 40 pounder in the Ohio River is a trophy for the year. I have fished the river for I think 4 years now, and I go out alot. I have not caught a 40 pounder yet, I am sure I have hooked a couple, but lost them, I have caught several in the 30's. Fishing in Ohio period is not up to par in my opinion. Let's save those big cats!!!


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## TJinIA

As someone who got involved in this effort as a result of seeing a petition
on-line I think they definitly do some good. The main thing is continuing to
try to learn from every effort made, because it seems that every petition
has a response from some official or the other shifting blame away from
something they are responsible for.
The petitions that are being posted now will start off by going with as
many volunteers as can be found into local bait shops and everywhere else
fishermen care to take them an try to get them signed. It will be a multi-state
effort.
The Editorial/Article being worked on is a result of several months of writing
e-mails to various officials an hearing how they can't help because, or they
don't need to listen because.
Little things like pointing out the Ohio river is considered by Biologists an
fishermen to be one of the 3 top trophy producing rivers in the country from
a catfishing standpoint. An then pointing out that the Dept of Fisheries officials we contacted up in Manitoba show that the Red River Channel cat
fishery brings in 10-12 million per season in liscenes, lodging, tackle, and
that while there is no direct total known on jobs it creates for local 
communities, the fact that tourism is a seriously labor intensive service 
industry makes the same officials believe that from a jobs standpoing the
Trophy fishing has a very significant impact in that area as well. Just an
example of a few things that can be added to get peoples attention.
Fighting "city halls" is pretty complicated.
SO IMO every petition, every article, every post with information we can
get is a great tool for learning and changing tactics and figuring out the best
ways to accomplish what is needed.
Thanks


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## atrkyhntr

Who is "we"?


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## TJinIA

I guess "we" would be anyone that has input into this issue, it certianly would
not be limited to people that have to agree with everything anyone said
pro or con, the only way that things get done is if all inputs from fishermen are listened to and some kind of intellegent set of regs is worked out that
will insure that everyone who wants to go hunting a trophy catfish will have
fish available in public waterways to do so.


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## flathunter

I just sent copy's of this to the odnr, the editor of my local newspaper, and state represenative


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## atrkyhntr

To me it looks like 1000's of people (we) shooting off in diff directions with no order of assembly to ensure the voice of many over shadows the voice of one...


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## twistertail

So you want me to print off a few of these sheets and take to some local bait shops to see if people will sign it? Who would I send it to when its filled out? I'm central Ohio so not many people fish the Ohio river so many people in my area may not think there is a problem. I have never fished the Ohio and really dont even fish for cats but if you think this will help I'll give it a shot. Let me know what I should do.


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## mrfishohio

Okay, it's maybe a little unorganized, but within a few days or a week, there will be an article sent everywhere. As news of catfish being netted from public waterways for profit emerges, people will take notice.
The *we* is _us......_ all of us who are concerned. It's not thousands running off in several directions. A gentleman contacted me several months ago thru Jack asking me a few questions as he was aware I was involved with some of this last year. Last year it got bogged down as there was alot of input and it more/less died on getting "non-profit" status for an organization. That takes time & money & there was no resources to support it I guess. I don't know what happened, other than it never came to fruition. It sort of fizzled out. Clyde made up a *great* prototype website & there was also a petition generated on the web site. The former petition, while gaining some attention, had no "teeth" as it's legal for paylakes to purchase catfish from any commercially licensed fisherman. So when it was brought to the attention of the state, that was basically their reponse.

There is and remains a need to protect catfish, whether in Ohio or our boundary waters. 
This proposed regulation addresses it. There is no commecial fishing in Ohio other that the Lake Erie district(mostly carp & walleyes?). So there is no need to regulate the Ohio Commecial anglers. However, anyone today with a resident or non- resident license is *not* restricted from taking all the catfish of anysize from most public waterways, with only a new restriction on lakes under 600 acres recently.
Some still feel it unfair they can't keep all of them. Bass & walleyes/saugers/saugeyes are protected in Ohio. They have a size & creel limit. As it presently stands, one can use trot lines, jug lines, rod & reel and limb lines and theoretically harvest well over 100 catfish in a day. It would be legal under today's law. How soon could some of the (Ohio ) lakes(not the Ohio River) producing trophy catfish..we've all seen the pictures...be destroyed by the use of trotlines and overharvesting. As it stands, someone could set out the lines, or just have a great day fishing and catch several flatheads over 30-50# and keep everyone of them. I was recently told of someone keeping 4 (flatheads) over 30-40# from a spot, lopping off their heads & putting them in a burlap bag. Maybe to eat, maybe for fertilizer, I don't know, but with regulations in place, they could only keep one of them.
Let's not wait until the extinction of the species, where all we have are memories and pictures of an opportunity lost.

This is still in it's beginning , so mistakes will be made, but let's not toss out the baby with the bath water. 
Regulations similar to Tennessee's and also Canada enacted regulations on the Red River making it a trophy catfish destination worth 10's of millions of dollars to their economy. 
Potencially the Ohio River could become a destination spot similar to that, or the Cumberland River in TN or like Lake Erie is for walleye.
It takes the forsight of several people with the support of concerned sportsmen to make it happen.

Commercial anlers will still be able to use hoop nets & gill nets in the Ohio River, but they won't be able to keep any catfish over 34"...if KY supports the proposal.
First thing is to get it passed in Ohio , and with enough support from Ky , IN and WV maybe some regulation on the Ohio River.
We _can_ make a difference.


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## mrfishohio

Twistertail, it's not going to affect anything in the Ohio River as proposed here. The Ohio River has it's own separate set of regulations. This petition is to get some regulations on Ohio's catfish. Hopefully KY will adopt a similar probram and there is a KY petition also. It may be attached to the article and/or a link to it.
There will be an address to return the petitions to.


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## atrkyhntr

Where is the Ky petition located?


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## atrkyhntr

BTW...
I spent many hrs last year on this when I became involved only to see it all wasted and for naught... I DO NOT want that to hap'n again is what I am saying...
I then turned my attention to carp and carp fishing because they seemed so much more organized, which is in this world how you get things done.
I have seen it come to fruit when I was involved in politics. Those who organize and do it well succeed where others do not...
Only the future will tell us what hap'ns now...


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## mrfishohio

I know what you're saying Clyde, we're on the same page.


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## mrfishohio

WAKE UP CALL FOR KENTUCKY CATFISHERMEN! 

It is time for Catfishermen who enjoy our sport to wake up
to what is happening to our resources. The following is a 
post from the Brotherhood of Catfishermens' board and should
serve as a wake up call for all of us!
FLATHEADS USED FOR BEER MONEY!
July 19 2004: Guys, what I saw today make me sick and really 
mad...I went down to one of my favorite flathead spots on the
Scioto River here in Ohio..I met up with a group of guys who 
had the ground covered in beer cans. They were complaining 
that they had caught no flatheads as of late...I asked them if they
had caught any at all this year and was told they had caught 
quite a few and sold them to paylakes! Which is illegal in Ohio.
One of them said he hoped they would start hitting again soon
because they were running out of beer money. In 1985 my logs
show I caught and released 23 cats over 20 lbs in June of that 
year alone, now I am lucky to catch 4-5 per year! Sportsmen 
need to advocate for INTELLEGENT HARVEST! 

Our resources are being exploited for private profit, it is time
to gets some regulations in place calling for INTELLEGENT
HARVEST and regulating pay lakes to make sure they are 
following the letter of the law.

1) Follow the example set by Tennessee and establish a slot 
limit which will protect all catfish caught over 34 inches setting
a bag limit of 1 per day on Sports fishing liscenses, and banning
commercial fishermen from taking any catfish over 34 inchs. 
2) The state of Ohio bans commercial netting, yet a great many
trophy catfish are being taken from waters under Kentucky 
jurisdiction by Ohio Pay Lake owners who get non-resident 
Ky commercial liscenses then net and transport TONS of trophy
cats to Pay Lakes in Ohio. We would like to see the state of 
Kentucky establish regulations protecting our resources from 
this type of exploitation. This information was provided by the
State of Ohio who investigated stocking of catfish at a Pay lake
in Washington County which advertises stocking over 11,000 lbs
of Trophy catfish per month!

SIGN UP AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## mrfishohio

We the Undersigned would like the state of Kentucky to establish regulations protecting Catfish resources:
1) Set slot limits mirroring those established the state of Tennessee:
a) requiring all catfish over 34 inches caught on commercially
issued licenses be released, alive, immediately.
b) establish a bag limit of 1 (one) fish per day on all catfish over 34
inches per day caught on sports fishing licenses.
2) Establish regulations preventing the on-going exploitation of our
Trophy Catfish by out of state pay lake owners using commercial licenses purchased through the state of Kentucky.

Name (Print) City State Signature Date
_____________ __________ _____ __________ __/__/___
_____________ __________ _____ __________ __/__/___
_____________ __________ _____ __________ __/__/___
__________

I just noticed i already posted this below the Ohio petiton nin case you missed it. I did a little spelling corrections too. It's really just a draft, but I wanted everyone to be aware of it. Looks pretty good to me.


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## atrkyhntr

I need to see the Tenn regs we're talking about for something I am working on for this project...
ANYONE?


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## flathunter

There is lots of people on this site who fish for catfish, only a few have responded to this thread and have offered to help..I hope all the catfishermen on this site will respond to this thread, and get involved.


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## mrfishohio

Here's the TN regs.......
http://www.state.tn.us/twra/fish/Commercial/TN_com_reg_04.pdf

That is the commercial regs.........note:
"All catfish greater than 34" must be released immeadiately statewide.


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## mrfishohio

I have to get going, but I'm sure you could find it here....TN fishing(click)


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## atrkyhntr

Here is a link to a printable petition:
CLICK HERE
Let me know how it prints out...
Works fine on mine and for some reason lines up nicely after printed..


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## Guest

I printed up a copy and will try to get as many people sign it as I can but I do have a question. In the places I fish it would be pretty rare to get a cat over 34in. and I assume thats how it probably is for most places. Wouldnt it make since also to have like a slot limit like where you can keep (3) catfish between 14- 20 inches oer day but every thing above or below that must be released? I can see this having more noticable results because where I fish its nothing to see people have stringers full of 8 inch catfish and the above regulation would not stop them from doing that at all. Thats just my opinion, maybe somthing to think about in the future.


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## atrkyhntr

I am not sure but what I belive this will do is get our foot in the door and let those in power hear our voices of concern...  
From there we can tweek (ask) the regs to better catfishing everywhere in the state


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## TIGHTLINER

Good Work! mrfishohio and atrkyhntr I plan on distributing the petition to some local bait shops on friday.


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## Mr. Catfish

I agree with this petition and I am going to distribute some to local bait shop's.This would help the fish up here alot and believe the river I fish with some help could rival some of the countries best.

In the past years I have caught 15 or more cats in the 20 pound and higher range by this time,this year only four.I will help in any way I can.We have to stop this.


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## mrfishohio

> In the places I fish it would be pretty rare to get a cat over 34in. and I assume thats how it probably is for most places.


Such true words, that's why it should help you and everyone to be able to catch larger fish.  
There is protection in the smaller lakes now in Ohio to only 6 in lakes under 600 acres, so they must be seeing a need to begin some regulation of catfish. I would like to see a creel limit to a six fish limit with only one over 34" allowed to be kept. There might be to much opposition to that. If the populations become overfished, then you won't be able to catch even 6 fish. The use of limb lines, jugs and trotlines, not to mention 2 rods as presently permitted could do some serious damage. As it stands, theoretically, one could keep 100 large fish or more.... over 30-50# in Ohio (from large lakes,rivers, and streams) as there's no regulations in place to protect them.
Won't it be nice when you can go to the place you fish and catch a few fish over 30-40# occasionally.


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## mrfishohio

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm simply spreading the word. I had a very small role, more/less a sounding board & a few ideas. The real work and research was done by someone else. He's the one to be commended, he did alot of research and wrote to all the DNRs & governor's offices, etc. Got reports from TN and Canada (Red River) professors who did studies, etc, ad infinitum. Spent alot of time and effort and still is working up the article.
It's going to take all of us, the sportsmen & sportswomen to stand up and make this an issue and make our concerns for catfish heard. Ohio is inching towards it, hence the limit that is new this year in the small lakes. IN has put in some new regulations too, on the use of trotlines & maybe some other things too in lakes (limblines & jugs?). They have a creel limit of 10 catfish per day and have had it in place for years & years. They also enacted a 14" limit on walleyes within the last 8-10 years too. I remember there was a father/son fish tournament at Brookville Lake( possibly sponsored by the IN DNR) & people were bringing in dink walleyes. That spurred them to change the law, as it was legal at the time. People were shocked that anyone would keep such small fish. Anyway, laws and regulations can and do change. 
This change is very do-able IMHO......


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## TJinIA

It is a great thing to see the support for this effort to better our sport by
preserving an protecting our resources. 
When my grandfather taught me how to fish he taught me a whole lot more
than just "catching". It was about sitting on a night an seein what nature
would show you, conservation, respect for others in the way you left your
spot, responsibility, a lot of things that go a long way towards making a person who he is down the road can be got from a riverbank.
I am trying to teach my kids an grandkids the same lessons, and it is a great
thing to know that there are sportsmen out there of the same mind, teaching the same lessons so my kids will have someone to share the water with!
Thanks to all of you!
Tim


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## atrkyhntr

I am hopeful nobody becomes discouraged and remembers everything takes baby steps and the time for change is on our side...
When "we" start talking of the great catfishing that "was" change is due and due now...


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## Lewzer

Did you ever report those drunks for poaching, littering, public intox, disorderly conduct....etc


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## rustyfish

Well i have went around and round with most on you on this subject, but i like what i hear, im in


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## atrkyhntr

GREAT to hear... most who care show support


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## flathunter

Lewzer, I did not report it at the time...However A few days after the fact I called the game warden in my county and told him about it, He did not really seem to care...But the fact is those people could have taken a thousand flatheads over 50-lbs home that day, and it would have been legal..They would have had to beeen followed to the paylake and observed selling those fish.


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## Guest

I think it is a great idea, and it would help our waters out alot. Im just saying that maybe say if we do get this a law, maybe we could keep inching forward and have even stricter limits on the smaller cats too. 

ps. Where do we send the petition forms when they are full?


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## mrfishohio

> Where do we send the petition forms when they are full?


That's still in the works.....  
We'll have an addy or PO box , just be sure not to lose any of them.


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## flathunter

I have gotten no responces yet to any of the emails I have sent...I took a petition to the only bait and tackle shop we have in the county I live in, I was not allowed to leave it..The owner told me he makes most of his money off of paylakers.


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## atrkyhntr

gezzzzzz Jack...  

If you have to look up some shops a county or two away and send them a copy  

I have several printed and ready to roll


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## TJinIA

Jack,
When I first started sending out mails an e-mails to DNR's an Governor an
such, DNRS responded pretty much right away, Governor took bout 1 1/2
months! Anyhow, for example, first letter to KY DNR their response was
"well, we gotta protect our poor commercial fishermen" "I responded, did not
make sense since I got word from ODNR that at least one pay lake stocking
11,000 lbs of fish per month the owner got his own outa state license from
KY an if they did the math, they were the ones hurting their own commercial
fishermen" 
Things like that, lotta back an forth, them sayin this can't be done, me trying
to respond with facts gotten from studies an different sources"
Now they sure are not responding near as fast to my e-mails an letters either, 
the petitions that are written up now, well I sent them to same DNR officials an Governors with very polite letter.
I do know that I have now recieved a letter from KY Governor's office and
DNR saying they are going to do a study on KY paylakes an their stocking
practices. Do know that one pay lake in particular has drawn several visits
from ODNR since April.
An I may be optimisitic, but I am hoping the slower response times and even
lack of response in some cases might indicate that some people are realizing
this is not an issue that is going to go away.
In my limited experience with Govt agencies, have seen it kinda follow a 
pattern:
1)Thanks for letting us know your concerns, not much we can do about them.
2) Thanks for telling us about that but for sure it is SODP some other dudes
problem)
3) No response at all
4) Thanks for your continued insistence that we do something, we are looking into it.
5) well, perhaps we best do something since you ain't gonna go away.
6) there we did something are you happy now!
7) Look at how greatly we serve our concerned public by listenting an acting
after they have been telling us about this for 16 years. Your Govt at work!

Gonna take time, gonna be discouraging, stay mad, stay focused, get after
them!
Tim


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## atrkyhntr

> stay mad, stay focused,


Oh HELL YEA


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## TJinIA

I got a link to a pay lake that Mr Fish gave me back in April, every time I start
to get a little discouraged, I click on it an look at someone advertising stockin 11,000 lbs of cats per month into a 4.5 acre lake, all taken by net,
all outa public waters! Kinda helps me get the old edge back every time I look
at them cats laying on that dock in them pics!


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## atrkyhntr

maybe you could share that #$%^$%^&^&* link bro!!!


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## TJinIA

http://www.catfishermansparadise.com/what's_new.htm

4.5 Acre pond, 11,000 lbs per month, all from public waters, have talked to 
BOC members from Ohio who say they have seen cats like this in the brush
tossed aside or in dumpsters. When I get tad bit discouraged, this link manages to get me pretty pumped up agin!


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## mrfishohio

You can browse the site. Click here for the link.... 
Yeah..a real paradise for catfish...... 

Here's his + 60# club (click)


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## TJinIA

Yep thats the one! That is definitly the link! 
Guess everyone has their own thing, but it is hard for me to believe that
anyone that is a sportsman can look at that an not get pretty hot under
the collar!


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## TJinIA

On a better note, today I have had 4 catfishermen request an recieve petitions they wished to pass around their local area, 1 Ill 1 Wva an 2 in KY,
so things are at least starting to take them first little steps forward.


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## mrfishohio

When the article hits.....that will draw attention from an untapped legions of sportspeople. I'm sure various angling clubs will bring it to the attention of their members, etc. Then it will be like a raging wildfire


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## atrkyhntr

I need to add those photos (very soon) to the website and the petition... I have NEVER viewed anything with more disgust EVER!!! MY GOD how can the state, any state, allow this to continue to hap'n??? 

INFACT<--- I'll add them now...

Then it is off to relax and catch some carp


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## atrkyhntr

Add this photo with caption to the petition for a little "bite"

http://www.geocities.com/beardbuster2k//wasted_cats.htm


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## TJinIA

atrkyhntr,
That is outstanding header for a web petition, our English Prof is working
on the editorial, once it is done an we have a web link for petition can get
that up there!
It is definitly something that keeps me focused and PO'd  
As a note, have gotten volunteers here on this great board for Ohio, and
also have people that are taking them round in Ill, Ky, Wva and Ia as well,
Have gotten one writer to commit to doing all he can to seeing our editorial
given web space on anglers info site (cross fingers).
Starting to take them baby steps! 
Tim

HOPE YOU HAVE GREAT DAY, Carp are a ton of fun, great fighting fish!


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## lark101_1999

flathunter said:


> Lewzer,However A few days after the fact I called the game warden in my county and told him about it, He did not really seem to care...But the fact is those people could have taken a thousand flatheads over 50-lbs home that day, and it would have been legal..They would have had to beeen followed to the paylake and observed selling those fish.


i get the saame thing when i ask what they are doing about it


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## Abu65

I'm your local Kentucky Ohio River catfisherman. I will be making some copys and trying to hang them at bait stores and marinas, I hope I do not run into any trouble with them not letting us put them out. Theres alot of paylkes and Commercial fisherman out there I just hope there are more of us.....Abu65


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## flathunter

The odnr does not care I found that out recently


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## TJinIA

While ago in writing to KY Governor I got a response that was real run around
from one of the people in KY DNR office, something to the effect that they
did not want to hurt commercial fishermen in their State ETC ETC, 
I fired a letter back to the governor an asked them if they thought having
out of state fishermen taking literally tons of trophy cats out of waters that
were under Kentucky Jurisdiction was helping his Commercial or sports fishermen.
Just got a letter back this time for Head of the Commerce cabinet thanking me for my reply an saying they were looking into this situation a little more 
closely. They also state they are having KY DNR check into the stocking 
practices at KY pay lakes as well, supposedly to look into this situation from
a fish population standpoint.

I have also gotten a letter from the Tennessee Wildlife commissioner who
said that what we are doing is important! Said that in his state there are
still people crying bout the regulations there but it is really having an impact!
More noise we make the better.
IMO if you say something to a ODNR official an don't get a reaction that
you think you ought to, write the governor or the DNR commisioner an email
an raise a little he$$ with them.


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## atrkyhntr

GOOD NEWS there Tim...
I think we could use a template email if anyone is up to the task  
Be nice to have some "out of staters" who'd say why they no longer fish our great state (cat numbers way down sounds good)


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## catking

Very nice TJinIA !! Please keep us all informed on any more corresponding letters from either party. Thank You........ CATKING


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## TJinIA

Well got thinking bout things all over again, an I have sent off letters to
Roland Martin (they say he answers personal all mails he gets! We will see) an also Bob Dillow who I understand is active in you alls area, just gave them
brief rundown of the fact that I (we) believe catfish need to be regulated,
and also gave them a link (the one here) to that pay lake that just always seems to really rile me up big time!!!!!
Anyone gets froggy, send them guys mail too, let them know bunch of viewers are concerned bout their reaction as sportsmen to this travesty!
Shoot if we can get couple big name guys behind this it would make a huge
difference as we get this ball rolling. maybe get them to read the editorial 
on the air or something after it is edited an completed. Shoot you get one you might get a bunch of them, ya just never know!  
Tim


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## flathunter

Tim, in the past week, I have had personel contact with a wildlife officer from the dnr...I told him what I have seen regarding people catching flatheads legally, and then selling them to paylakes which is illegal..His reaction was a blank stare and I honestly do believe he did not care one bit..


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## atrkyhntr

Hey Jack... You'd need proof otherwise they can do nothing about your accusations if you know what I mean. Tell a cop about speeders and you'd get the same blank stare...


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## TJinIA

Jack, 
I know where you're coming from, have had e-mails going back an forth with
some people at ODNR bout this off an on since April, they point out that they
are "stinging" the pay lakes etc etc. Hang in there brother! Know this is something you have been fighting for a long time, an know just from the time I have spent it can be kinda frustrating. but I also believe that the people that are working on this are dedicated as heck an that this is something that is going to turn out right!
Far as the paylakes an people selling fish to them, that is one of the reasons I think the part of petition requiring pay lakes to stock under ODNR supervision and provide serious proof that fish were obtained legally is big time important.
Would like to see the pay lakes have to purchase "fish stocking stamps" an
pay a surcharge on every darn fish they take from public waterways! 
NO SURCHARGE ON HATCHERY FISH.
Fact is talking to some of the BOC brothers out in CA, there are hybred cats
that could be purchased an stocked that grow real big real fast if they are
taken care of. 
Also really need to crack down on the ones that do get caught in stings and
are violating the law, fines are cool, but they make that up in one night of
catching an killing big cats during pot fishing tourney.
They need to be handled just like bar or store that violates tobacco or
liquor laws, they need to have their gates shut for bout 2 months! Hit them
where it hurts!
Pay lakes can be darn profitable running on hatchery fish, stocking for table
fare an fun. I have Fed Gov link that shows optimum running of pay for fish
operation, an it sure don't got nothing to do with taking trophy fish out of 
public waterways for private profit!
Another thing to be considered is that Aquaculture is a really big business,
and as such, this kind of issue could be of importance to the Ag departments
of various states an also on the federal level as well. Have been looking at
it from that aspect as well. Just on small level for now, but have talked at
couple big fish farmers via e-mail, an they definitly seem to feel that it is
extremly wrong to be putting "polluted" fish from public waterways into private pay 
to fish lakes like that. As our issue gains some momentum then
that is another avenue we might look to for some support, more fish the 
paylakes are required to stock from farms or hatcheries, the better these
guys are going to like it, an they do have a large lobby in state an fed govt,
where whispers in the right ears could help!
Another thing to look at as we continue working on this issue is that the 
US FISH and WILDLIFE Dept is tasked very specifically with interceding in 
the establishing of regs where boundry waters under multi-state jurisdiction
is in effect. 
At some point if there does not seem to be progress made, then the petition
signatures we have and all documentation we can pull up might be well sent
to some Congressmen an Reps in DC.
There are a lot of avenues open, and we are just now taking our first little
baby steps so to speak in getting this ball rolling, but I truly believe that 
it can get done!
Tim


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## TJinIA

I have sent a e-mail to ODNR an CC'd it to Governor of Ohio as well.
Told them that the issue is moving forward and is gaining some momentum
(they asked for periodic updates so I provide them!) and passed on the
basic info in the Ohio Petition that is out an about.
Also, told them that people are quite concerned about the illegal stocking
of pay lakes that Jack and others have mentioned, and told them that the
general feeling is that when it has been mentioned to officials that there is
a general lack of concern being displayed on their part.
Explained that this was not such a good thing, and that while we knew based on "stings" and such they have been working on it, that the best way
to really get after it was to have fishermen willing to report violations an to
have ODNR willing to follow up and do something when it is reported.
I asked them to provide me with a e-mail or something where "lack of 
concern" by ODNR officers could be reported and discussed in a way that
would be productive to the efforts we are making to try an do something 
about this decimation of trophy fish out of public waterways.
Will let you all know what kinda reply I get.
Tim


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## atrkyhntr

Do you have a running list of emails you've sent?
I could place them on the website for future reference...


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## TJinIA

Clyde,
I have a list of mails and replies, about 37 of them plus some letters and
such have. Jim has CC's of a lot of the origional e-mails I sent as well, I was
so fired up couple times I thought it would be good idea to bounce them off him too, was times that "political correctness" kinda went by the way side
when I got fired up  
I'll break everything down into a outline, with mails sent an replies and 
scans of the letters from various places, links to the studies, info I got from
In-Fishermen.net (who say they might consider publishing editorial for us once
it is proofed) etc.
Will let you go over it an decide what you wanna use, give me day or two
to get it into some kinda chronological order so it is usable an I will have it in
your hands.
Tim


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## atrkyhntr

THANKS Tim...
To date nobody has stepped up for the Catfish as you have  

I applaud your fine efforts


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## TJinIA

Thanks, when we get this thing won you all can take me out on the OHIO an
show me a MONSTER FLATHEAD! I have not got one over 28 yet, but not for
lack of trying LOL.
An I know for fact how dedicated the people on this board are to this issue,
cuz when I got started here Jim sent me lotta info came right off of here that
I was able to use to get started. I have advantage cuz I have business outa
the house so I can just sit here an fire off data, but it is the guys that are out there passing the petitions and spreading the word that are the ones that
are important to this effort.
Is an honor to be part of a group of sportsmen that care about what is happening to the future of the Cats that we love.
Tim


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## flathunter

I printed off 5 petitions and passed them around, I got three signatures , myself, my wife, and my son


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## atrkyhntr

3 is better then 2 ... 4 better then 3 ... 
baby steps my friend... we'll get there


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## TJinIA

I got a reply to the e-mail I sent Roland Martin regarding this issue, with a link
to that Pay Lake  here is his reply: 

Dear Tim:

I am in favor of allowing sport fisherman to take one big, one a day. This would limit the pay lakes from depleting resources such as Santee-Cooper. Lobby efforts at the state level are needed to effect any regulation changes.

Bass Wishes,
Roland Martin

I sent him mail asking permission to use this on web site and in our efforts,
I am hoping that there will not be a problem with it. Just this little bitty 
mail could have some real positive impact if we can say he is behind this effort. His opinion swings a lot of weight with a lot of fishermen all over this
country.
Tim


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## TJinIA

Roland Martin got back to me and gave us permission to use the letter here
I posted in our efforts to get some regs on catfish.


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## atrkyhntr

Great !!!  

Get those letters and replies to me when you can and we'll "change" the website just a tad


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## TJinIA

Sent the Roland Martin Email an his email giving us permission to use his quotes along to you. Am gonna take a bit of a break tonite, got goggle eyes
from the puter this afternoon, got fired up an started sendin off more mails
to Outdoor Television Network, also found a real good link to the 
ASA American Sportsfishing Asoc. They represent 600 manufacturers of fishing equipment and boats an such have and look to be from what I see a
political action group out there to benifit fishing! 
If you go to the web site they have government issues page an one of the 
issues the way I read it is about getting some slot limits on fish! Hoping perhaps they will come aboard also, I cc'd you a copy of the letter I sent to 
them an will let you know what they have to say, but that could be a real
boost for us if they will offer some support even if it is just suggestions and
knowledge on how to get some more things accomplished
Am bout half done with the sorting of info into sensible order here an will
have the entire batch ready for you by tommorow sometime late afternoon
or early evening
I hope I got the right addy for your mail, at yahoo.com if not send me 
something at [email protected] so I have right addy

Moving along nicely baby step by baby step  
Tim


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## cheezemm2

Well, the new petition is looking good and I will be doing all that I can with it. I've contacted various officials, and will hopefully be getting some responses soon. I will let you guys know...

P.S. It was that link that got me all fired up again...making another run at all these guys now!


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## TJinIA

Clyde, 
I sent out that info to you, hope it did not bury your mail box!  
bout 8 folders worth, mails, articles, letters, studies, links to studies, etc.
Tried to sort it into something you can read through and use to best 
advantage. Lotta good stuff there as you will see, stuff that I think the 
legislators will find hard to ignore in terms of the VALUE of trophy catfish and
the need to protect them.
Also study done that was big part of why Tennessee Wildlife was able 
get the legislators to listen to the need for regs to protect the fish. I think if
we use this stuff right we build a seriously strong case for regulations based
on the fact that a very large number of people all over the country have already expressed desire to see catfish taken care of the way they should be!
In addition to what you have, also am pending some answers to mails to 
several other places and agencies regarding what we are doing that can be
added as we go, have been cc'in most everything to you that I am doing
now an will continue to do so as I go along.

CHEEZEMM2 
welcome to the battlezone! We are after them an we are gonna get em!  
your help is most welcome!
Thanks!
Tim


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## atrkyhntr

THANKS Tim & Jim...

I have my kids till Sun then I'll get busy and do what needs to be done !!!
THANKS again...


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## atrkyhntr

WTG cheezemm2 !!!


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## TJinIA

Have some news I wanted to share with everyone here, one of the BOC brothers from West Va that volunteered to pull off some petitions posted to
me that he has collected almost 400 signatures already!!   
Man I bout jumped outa my chair yelling! Baby steps starting to turn into 
toddler steps, then bigger an bigger then a big old snowball rolling downhill
that there ain't gonna be no stopping!
Just have to keep on it getting the word out an it will happen!

Tim


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## atrkyhntr

WOW ...
Thats HUGE ... HUGE ...


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## flathunter

It seems that people other than folks for ohio are doing most of the work,thank god for them...Thank you Tim, I am glad Clyde is on our side also!


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## Rooster

Sorry, I have not been keeping up with this thread, and if this has already been brought up, I apologize. Has anyone contacted the BPS in Cincinnati? They have been very receptive in the past. I was thinking that if we got their permission to stand inside or outside of their store, it would be a great way to get a lot of signatures for the petition. Im sure that a few thousand fishermen visit that store on any given weekend (even more when they have events). I think that it would be a great opportunity to get signatures and educate the fishing public (fun too). I would happily spend some time with a clipboard, and Im sure others would also volunteer. If we could organize a schedule and teams, Im confident that we could get upwards of a 1000 signatures in a single weekend! Let me know.


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## TJinIA

Jack,
This is not a state effort brother, it is a sportsmans' effort! An I wanna remind you of something too, I would not be doing what I am doing if it was not for you an Jim an Qriz an the other people that have been fighting this for so long with so much passion! It is that dedication an effort everyone is
putting into this that keeps me going and will continue to keep me going for
as long as it takes to get those trophy cats protected the way they ought to
be! 
Rooster, that is a grand idea bout BPS! 
I bet there are people here that can get with you on this, it could be 
huge! 
Thanks
Tim


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## TJinIA

Got letter from KY wildlife Commissioner in response to letter I sent to Gov
Fletcher of KY

He acknowledges that trophy cats are being taken from the Ohio river to stock pay lakes in Ky an in Ohio an surrounding states! Goes on to say that it is established practice Blah blah blah!
Also noted that there are quarterly meetings of the Ky wildlife commision 
with next one to be scheduled for Sept sometime, schedule to be set sometime after Aug 27th. Provides a contact to call to get a rep at the quarterly meeting to express our concerns on this issue.
Given the point we are at seems highly unlikely to me we can get someone to that meeting in Sep, but they hold them quarterly, so I would believe that as we gain momentum we should be able to find someone that can get to one of the upcoming commision meetings armed to the teeth with thousands of signatures and data to slap them with!
Also figure that when we post on web site with petition might not hurt to 
point out that they (KY wildlife) are aware of the pay lakes an what they are
doing an that perhaps indicate a level of serious (politically correct of course)
DISGUST that knowing our public waters are getting raped for private profit they still do nothing about it whatsoever! There are very few licensed commercial fishermen when compared to the MILLIONS of sports anglers, would seem to me that a few of the boys paying license fees might get their
shorts in a knot knowing that the states are putting the pay lakes in front of
the sports anglers that pay the majority of the frieght an the wages of the
commisioners that are supposed to protect our sport!
GRRRRRRRRRR   seriously would like to write me a politically INCORRECT letter that would 
turn Gov Fletchers hair green! (but I won't Jim don't worry LOL)
Anyhow, as mad as it makes me it shows we are getting their attention,
baby steps baby steps, then the BOOT!
Tim


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## TJinIA

As Jim points out now that I am settled down now, that letter we got from KY
is actually quite a positive thing. The commissioner points out that there is established practice an that it would be hard to allocate one way or the other. 
But information about the meetings and a method to get an invite to a rep at one in the future is a very positive thing.
Jim pointed out the letter is a great starting point for getting something accomplished, and I gotta point out that is what is great bout having so many great sportsmen involved in this thing, if it was just me I would probably
have shoved my foot so far in my mouth by now getting mad that no one would even bother to talk to me when I send emails LOL.
Jim, thanks!
Tim


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## atrkyhntr

I liked ya better when you were ...
stomp'n-spit'n-fum'n-cus'n sort of fellow myself  

I see a door being open


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## catking

Please keep us all informed. Most of these people in charge are glad when people give up. Keep nippin at them  ....I personally think it's GREAT !!! that some of you guys are getting so involved with this. Anything I can do, give me a holler  .Thanks Again............. CATKING


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## TJinIA

LOL Clyde, 
Think I can safely say that there will be more than my share of spittin
an stompin an fuming done before we win this battle! This is a issue that
still raises my hackles BIG TIME! 
But, sometimes you gotta catch the flys with honey, THEN YA SWAT EM LOL
Tim


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## teaysvalleyguy

Great to see yall brothers workin on Catfish regulations....We definatly need to do something about it. Tea


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## Rooster

I sent a request to circulate the petition at the Bass Pro Shop in Cincinnati. I will keep you updated on any progress.


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## teaysvalleyguy

I will see if I can get some in local bait shops.


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## atrkyhntr

THANKS Guys !!!


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## TJinIA

I recieved a letter from ODNR to rather agravated letter I wrote the GOV
about 2 1/2 weeks ago.
They invited a rep to attend an open ODNR meeting in March and put forth
our information and request for catfish regulations.
Kinda cool too, in previous corespondence (3 times) I got letter back an the
envelope was all typed out.
This envelope had a computer generated address label coming to me,
wonder if they are getting the feeling that this is not going to go away?


Also another nice note, got a e-mail from a fellow member of another board
and he is the founder of Catfishing group down in Alabama, he asked for 
petitions and other information, which I sent along to him, so that he can
start pushing for some regs down in Alabama. 
Starting to move along, ready for the wildfire!  
Tim


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## flathunter

That sounds awesome, now who are we gonna get to go?
I would like to do it but I have a big problem with public speaking..However I would go along for support...We got to make sure we have all our ducks in a row so we can lay it on them..Tim, I got to hand it to you, you are doing a great job my man!


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## TJinIA

Jack,
I bet there are members that will go with you, in fact, we stay organized an
focused we should need several people to go just to carry the petitions we
can lay in front of them bout this issue! 
Tim


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## TJinIA

Just visited another board where have posted petition info, was note there from guy who is part of So Cal catfishing group stating that he felt all states ought to look into regs, told him that was the idea an told him how to get hold of us if he wants to get info an get his group on this deal getting petitions signed.
Heck as ZZ TOP sings
"WE BAD, WE NATIONWIDE!"
 
Tim


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## gulfvet

Personally, I think the reg should say that only farm-raised fish may be stocked in paylakes, that they must be tagged with a tag indicating which farm they came from and that only the proprietors of fish farms are issued tags. Then it would be a simple matter for ODNR officers to do no-notice creel surveys at paylakes to see if other fish are being put in the lakes. Fine 'em $500 a fish for any untagged and this garbage would stop pretty quick!


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## TJinIA

Gulfvet,
That is something that we had looked at an had actually started petitions
out with, but at this point an time the initial feedback we were getting from
agencies, and fishermen pretty much indicated that trying to limit paylakes to
that extent would be a real difficult thing to get done, and what we have
proposed is following guidelines that have already been established and which
we have a real fact based argument for as provided by the things which the
state of Tennessee used to set up the regs that we are initially asking for.
Most important thing will be to get something done on a smaller scale, get
agencies to acknowledge the need for regs, and get them to acknowledge,
based on things petitions and avaialbe survey data we have that majority
of fishermen want regs established.
Once we get that done, then we can look at trying to tweek the regs in
a bit.
We do not want to draw hard lines in the sand that are going to give people that like pay lake "trophy fishing" (what a sickening concept that is, like shooting penned deer or something)  or the owners room to cry to hard about what we are asking for in terms of regs.
I think that what has been come up with is pretty hard to argue with in terms of them saying we are hurting the businesses or whatever.
Once we get this candle lit it will be very hard to argue that what we are 
doing is anything but exactly what it is, trying to protect the future of the
sport.

As for my own feelings on this subject, they run towards seine nets taking
fish out of pay lakes to restock into wild, then utilizing heavy equipment to
fill them in!  

Tim


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## Rooster

Very disappointing news from the BPS!

I finally received a response from Bass Pro Shops, and they declined my request to post the petition. They basically stated that they prefer to stay away from controversial issues because of their wide customer base. Funny, I guess that they dont care that their customer base was reduced by one for their response. Now, does anyone know if the BPS owns the parking lot? That is, if the mall owns the parking lot, perhaps we could ask the mall for permission to ask for signatures outside of the BPS in the parking lot.


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## flathunter

It looks like this had died a slow death...I really dont care anymore, the catfishing is so bad in my area I think next year I will fish for carp 100 percent of the time.


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## lark101_1999

as everyone knows my spelling is/'nt the best what m asking for is a letter to be made up so that most of us can copy and send it to sport mags local goverment ,state goverment , and other fishing web sites if anyone would be willing to type up such a letter i know i would sure make it seen by many need some thing well worded and not threating but still getting the point acrosses the reasone i ask is because its now winter time and for about 3 month a year i am laid off and have plenty of time to copy and past so to speak


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## flathunter

After reading Doc's latest post I hope there is something done to save these trophy fish from the netters.


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## gulfvet

Where can I get a look at the latest version of the regulation? I'm a paralegal student at Sinclair and I might be able to get one or two of the instructors (lawyers) to look it over and see if we have our bases covered. We just did an in-class exercise about this very sort of thing.

Ken


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## atrkyhntr

Hey Ken...
What regulation are you talking about?
I'll make sure you get it!!


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