# Walleye limit to drop in 2012?



## bad luck (Apr 9, 2009)

Over at DNR last week, they said there was considerations on dropping 'eyes to 4. I inquired as to why they just don't close the spring spawn fishing and that would do it, and guy said too much $$$ at stake.....

Nothing is done deal, just a discussion with an officer who has no say, but anybody else hearing any thing along these lines?


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## pik-n-fin (May 20, 2004)

I know this won't be popular, but I think they SHOULD drop the limit, investigate a slot limit and at least reconsider the spawning season limit. 

I have already voluntarily started putting a lot of fish back that I catch. I personally don't like eating the big ones, anyway. 

Even tho' I KNOW there are other issues beyond the bag limits during the spawn, IT DEFIES COMMON SENSE THAT WE DON'T PROTECT THE SPAWN BETTER!! So many tournaments come here during the spawn because the fishing is great and they can't keep fish in other areas where states do a better job of protecting the fishery.


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## tomb (Oct 9, 2004)

If they can protect the fishery w/o dumping all the pain on the western basin, then why not?


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

From what I've heard Both the Yellow Perch & Walleye limits may drop ? But I will not bellieve anything until I see it in Black & White !


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## ErieRider (Mar 23, 2010)

I am for slots and lower limits. They are essentially doing something very similiar with whitetail now by protecting the main male (buck)breeders and only allowing hunters to take one. Is it about time we do something to protect the fishery a little more?? It may hurt up front a little with less guys coming in from other areas to fish for only four fish but we stand to lose to much in the long run not to address the issue now. Between toxic algae and a potential bad spawn last year, I think we are nearing a breaking point for the lake. Either way we are putting alot of trust in the state to make this lake sustainable and I hope all this research is put into action!


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

pik-n-fin said:


> I know this won't be popular, but I think they SHOULD drop the limit, investigate a slot limit and at least reconsider the spawning season limit.
> 
> I have already voluntarily started putting a lot of fish back that I catch. I personally don't like eating the big ones, anyway.
> 
> Even tho' I KNOW there are other issues beyond the bag limits during the spawn, IT DEFIES COMMON SENSE THAT WE DON'T PROTECT THE SPAWN BETTER!! So many tournaments come here during the spawn because the fishing is great and they can't keep fish in other areas where states do a better job of protecting the fishery.


A fish taken is a fish taken regardless of when it's taken. A female caught in October or April is one less female in the system so stop saying spawn this and spawn that, most of the fish caught during the spawn are males caught by jig fisherman. Trollers make up a small portion of the fisherman.

So many tournaments? Like 1 or 2 a year you mean? small portion of the fish and keeping isn't on the agenda finding big ones are. The last couple of years the tournaments have been after the spawn and same with next years two big events. 

The lake has less fish to offer, they should lower it and I think they should have lowererd it this year to be honost.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2011)

K gonefishin said:


> A fish taken is a fish taken regardless of when it's taken. A female caught in October or April is one less female in the system so stop saying spawn this and spawn that, most of the fish caught during the spawn are males caught by jig fisherman. Trollers make up a small portion of the fisherman.
> 
> So many tournaments? Like 1 or 2 a year you mean? small portion of the fish and keeping isn't on the agenda finding big ones are. The last couple of years the tournaments have been after the spawn and same with next years two big events.
> 
> The lake has less fish to offer, they should lower it and I think they should have lowererd it this year to be honost.


I agree with K Gone that the limit should have been lowered this year due to the overall walleye population. It's been long biologically established by the DNR, however, that taking a fish during the spawn is no more or less impactful than taking one later in the year. We just can't catch a break on another great hatch since 2003.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

here we go again...someone pass the popcorn 

Seriously though, despite all the rumors (and that is just what they are), no one really knows what the limit will be until the end of April next year. Anything else is just pure speculation and conjecture.


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

Search GLFC (Great Lakes Fisheries Commission) and Lake Erie walleye limits. You'll find the limit is determined by the TAC (total allowable catch) that is determined by the Lake Erie Committee made up of reps from all States and Provinces that border Lake Erie. 

If the tac drops to below 995,000 (or something close to that) our limit will be reduced to 5 (still be 4 in March & April).


The catch indicated there were more 3 -5 yr old fish in the lake than the ODNR's estimates so I'm hopeful our limit will remain at 6. The tac is determined by estimated populations of legal fish (over 15") so last years spawn wil have no bearing until the year after next (2013) when some of the 2011 spawn may be 15"s. 

Don't you think it's a bit early to start wringing your hands and saying "what are we going to do?" 

The 2 big spawns in the 80's come from way fewer fish than we have now, so we are not in dire straights. I too would love to see and good year class come along, but the folks looking out for us know their stuff, I'm all for letting them do their jobs.

Mike, This is only the first goround.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Maybe a three fish walleye limit from November 1st through May 1st and a five fish limit May 2nd through October 31st. This would provide a 25% reduction in the loss of egg carrying females during the spawn as well as reducing their overall take. The same type structured season and limit reduction could be implemented for the perch. 

Along with the limit and season reduction imposed on the sport fisherman, similar adjustments would be made to the commercial fisherie.

It is unfortunate that $'s have to be a heavy consideration but the overall impact of lost revenue to the community's and business (charters included)along the Erie Shores must be included in the long term plan. 

Pay me now or pay me later does not fit into what must be done. Wait too long and the economic crash at the end would be as rapid as the walleye disappearance.


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## ErieRider (Mar 23, 2010)

I know Erie is a large lake. What I can't understand how slots and closed periods have benefitted so many other states, that it could not help us. Can some clarify how it would not, if the idea was so sucessful in many other states? 

What baffles me is the amount of out of state fishermen come here (MN, WI Etc.) in the spring and catch our spawners because their seasons are closed!!! That affects us negativley as well.

Don't believe me about the out of staters?? Just cruise the islands area and see how many boats are from out of state. Or Do like New York did and jack the prices up on the out of states licenses and that will reduce the number of out of state guys. Just thinking.


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## LmitingOut (Mar 11, 2011)

Would nice to see a slot limit don't see any negative effects at all, just better fishing and bigger fish


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## FreeByrdSteve (Jun 28, 2004)

The number of fish that spawn are NOT the issue according to all the presentations I've heard from the fisheries biologists. The issue is HOW MANY OF THE FISH SURVIVE based on what happens with the weather and predators during and after the spawn period. It doesn't take a "big" population of fish in the lake to have a GREAT "hatch" - again the real issue is how many of the eggs actually hatch and then how many of the fry survive through the first year. The example here is the 2003 hatch which proves this point.

"Closing" fishing during the spawn is knee-jerk "feel good" policy that would have virtually zero scientific basis according to all the presentations I've heard from the fisheries biologists.

For anyone that wants to "do their part" if you believe the notion that what rod & reel anglers do actually make a difference based on the MILLIONS of fish in Lake Erie - by all means do what makes sense to you in terms of "protecting the fishery." To some that means they don't keep "big" fish. To some that means they release the "prime spawners" - the 3-6 pound fish. 

To me I almost never keep a walleye LESS than 18". My reasoning is that there is a very high chance that a walleye less than 17" in Lake Erie has NEVER spawned. By the time a walleye in Lake Erie is 18" or bigger the chance that it has spawned at least once (perhaps twice) is statistically very high. To me if there should be a minimum size limit it ought to be something biologically significant rather than some arbitrary number like the 15" limit now. Several years ago at a WBSA meeting I asked Roger Knight what percentage of Lake Erie Walleye that were 15" had likely ever spawned. I then asked him what percentage of Lake Erie Walleye that were 18" had likely spawned. I don't remember his specific answers but that is the basis for my "personal policy" of almost never keeping walleye under 18". I figure that if the walleye I keep have spawned at least once then that fish has "done it's part" and therefore I've "done my part."

As far as the out of state anglers coming to Lake Erie - sure some of them come in the spring because fishing is closed in their state, but reality is out of state anglers come to Lake Erie ALL YEAR because it is the best walleye fishery in the world. Other than people that travel for tournaments I don't personally know anyone from Ohio that regularly fishes Lake Erie that has or would travel to go walleye fishing in any of the states that are mentioned above - why would they when our fishery is so much better here in Ohio on Lake Erie?


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## Rod Hawg (Jan 13, 2011)

Whether its a rumor or not. I think it should be lowered. I totally agree with a slot limit. However I worry about when your trolling out deep and the air bladders come up in the fishes mouth. You'd have to put them back and they'd probably die anyway. It would kind of be a waste if a fish was gonna die and you had to put it back. Gull food I guess


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

Dave, And all the rest of you slot limit believers:

If we were short of spawning age fish, or if there were too many little fish and not enough big fish, then a slot limit would speed up the population getting to stable and sustainable level. 

We are not hurting for spawning size fish, we do not have an unbalanced population.This is not Minnesota, where stocking programs ruined the genetics of naturally occuring populations. 

I, for one, believe that the less we meddle with things, the less chance we have of screwing things up. 

Now don't get me wrong....tell me why we need slot limits, or how it would help a natural and viable population, and I'll help you sell the idea.

Rant #2 complete.

When the State went with a size limit, I was hoping they'd go to 18" instead of 15" because most 18" females are sexually mature. And besides 18" have around twice the meat on them that a 15" fish has, as well as the fact that they are past that young, dumb and easy to catch stage.


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

The limits are set automatically by determination of TAC. Whining crying and pleading won't change that. It's a law.

There's a slot limit already, 15"or you throw it back. In my mind they could make it 26" or throw it back. 

What some of you are saying is that unless you have a fairly large boat or hire a charter then you shouldn't be allowed to fish for walleye on Lake Erie.

Big fish have done their jobs for years and should be retired to the frying pan. Let the underage girls (that so many of you seem to like) get old enough to breed a few times before you take them out!


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## evangelion (Jun 25, 2009)

I'm in favor of slots too. It seems to make great sense. It's a pain to keep up on the regs, but the fish increase and before you know it you'll be back up to a larger limit. I know salt water and fresh water are different comparisons. But what I see out of Bradington and other areas. They had a huge fish kill because of cold weather. I went fishing in April and caught enough fish that I needed to take a break. We were pullin snook, reds, and trout. I even was one less than a slam on the second day. Again I would think that it would be one at the most two years of lean fishing. Then it would be game on.


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

Seasons, slots, size, and qty limits do one thing. Reduce the overall harvest from both traditional and commercial fisherman. In turn more fish are available to spawn and sustain the fishery.

Reduce the limit and the fishing season. Its the best option we have to naturally sustain the lake.

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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

Please enlighten me on what a "Slot" will accomplish on Erie?

Once sexually mature, a female walleyes eggs are just as viable regardless of size. At least that's what I've been told by people much more edjumakated than me. So what would a slot really accomplish?

Every winter its the same shtuff. Then in the spring its about protecting the spawn, closing the rivers blah, blah blah. Every biologist, dnr officer, almost anyone involved with those decisions or enforcement have the same love for this lake as all of us. So quit the Minnesota or Wisconsin or where ever know better BS. There's a reason Ohio attracts fisherman and even hunters from surrounding states and its been like that for decades and its not because of mismanagement!

As for tournaments. The flw and mwc are both post spawn events. The only events that are early are some of the lewt tournaments. All the guys fishing those are pretty much local diehards who would be out there tournament or not. There is the mwc Detroit in mid April and most of those fish are post spawn by then and it is catch and release in Michigan waters only. So there goes that theory.

Marc, I'm not quite getting what you mean by big boats or charters?


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Like I said...every year, same ol' stuff. I doubt whether the armchair biologists here are more qualified to make decisions about the management of our fisheries then our own ODNR.


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

It doesn't matter if you drop 1trillion eggs in lake Erie on any given spawn. If the conditions are not conducive to survival, you'll get the same result as you would if you only dropped a dozen eggs. ZERO survival. There are plenty of "spawner" fish to "regenerate this barren body of water" (sarcasm). If they want to drop any limits it should be the amount of times this debate comes up on OGF.


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

well nothin is gonna change till they shut down the spring spawn fishing. Strength in numbers and the more egg laiden females we take out before they spawn the less eggs in the system its all math, just some need a calculator to figure it out.

too many fish not even getting the chance to lay their eggs. Funny how ohio is the only state on the erie shores that allows this.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

i agree, a slot limit wont help a thing. wanna drop the limit, go for it, i sometime wish it was lower on slow days, because my crew wants to fish till we limit or starve


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## TRIPLE-J (Sep 18, 2006)

Captain Kevin said:


> It doesn't matter if you drop 1trillion eggs in lake Erie on any given spawn. If the conditions are not conducive to survival, you'll get the same result as you would if you only dropped a dozen eggs. ZERO survival. There are plenty of "spawner" fish to "regenerate this barren body of water" (sarcasm). If they want to drop any limits it should be the amount of times this debate comes up on OGF.


so you are sayin that no matter how many eggs are laid in any givin year it doesnt matter ????? I disagree lets see a trillion in a good spawn weather pattern compared to 1,000,000 in a good year. Or the same numbers even on a bad year. Either way, the trillion is gonna produce more. Ive NEVER seen a zero survival spawn yet. Do the math.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't know why anyone at the DNR would be saying they are thinking about doing this or that. It is set in stone as a LAW. It is determined by the TOC and is tied to the bag limit table. Non maybes, no whatever's, it is what it is.

Please see attached file for bag limit table


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## roger23 (Mar 7, 2007)

everything I have read lately if they don't figure out how to stop the algae the fishing is going to go down hill.


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

TRIPLE-J said:


> Funny how ohio is the only state on the erie shores that allows this.


Where did you get this info? Only 2 states close Walleye fishing on Erie, Pa and NY. Ohio, Mich, and Ontario do not close.

While there are small numberavof resident fish that spawn in the central and eastern basins a major majority are in the western basin. Yet all three of the governments in the west allow fishing.

Oh hell lets just say it. Theres a reason there's no fish left in Erie, the Amish ate them all!


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

Papa,

with the Slot..... think what a 25 to 28 inch slot would have done to our fall and summer fishing harvest. or a 18 to 24 +/- inch slot in the last four. It would have saved a ton of the 03 population. 

I was just trying to make a point as to the purpose of the restrictions. Limit the harvest.

Personally i believe the size limit should be 18 inches and some part of the year should be closed. That way at least the fish has one year to dump some eggs and be fertilized and the yearly take should will be reduced. 200,000 eggs(or whatever it is) with a poor condition spring is better than no eggs in prime conditions. This should not be limited to just hook and line guys.

All i know is that its hard to tell a majority of the walleye fisherman to practice catch and release. And commercial fisherman that they do it for the love of the sport. 




Papascott said:


> Please enlighten me on what a "Slot" will accomplish on Erie?
> QUOTE]


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

Papascott said:


> Marc, I'm not quite getting what you mean by big boats or charters?


There are thousands who fish the rivers and near shore areas that would not have access to walleye at any other time of the year because of either being boat less or not having a boat big enough to follow them off shore. By closing the season they would effectively be cut out of any opportunity to enjoy our great fishery.

Scott, you bring up a good point on our local events. LEWT guys turn in 5 fish and can only keep 8 in those early events with a 2 man team. If there was no tournament they would likely be fishing with 3-4 guys or more on their boats and instead of keeping up to 8 fish they would be keeping up to 20. Maybe we should ban everything except tourney fishing since it saves on numbers taken? (Said tongue in cheek  )


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## OhYeah (Apr 29, 2005)

2010 Private boat walleye harvest: 831,072
2010 Charter boat walleye harvest: 127,294
2010 Cormorants walleye harvest : ??????? Let's drop their limit !
<never mind, that would require another tax dollar study>


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

doesnt this discussion surface every autumn/winter?? You guys that want a closed season, let those big fish go in the summer when you catch them too. Ive said what Kgone did for a while, whats the difference if you take a female out of the system in March or July?? You still take a spawning female out..PERIOD! And Freebyrd hit it right on too, you dont need 500,000,000 egg layers for a great hatch or survival, a larger female will lay approx 500,000 eggs...Im pretty sure all the females out there will have enough eggs to drop to supply the lake for the rest of the century but its the other factors that screw up the hatch and survival rate...not lack of eggs!


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## nightranger (Oct 2, 2011)

personally i feel that alot of you are missing the point.the quality of the enviroment has more to do with walleye spawning success than an individual fisherman.looking the other way as millions of gallons of raw sewage pollute the lake,leading to RECORD LEVELS of toxic algae year after after year,is completely ludicrous.algae does not die off,it just becomes dormant,waitng forconditions suitable to re-activate and continue growing.the record levels seen last year are clinging to the rocks and spillways like boullion waiting to re-mix and multiply when the temps.rise.every year from now on,THIS PROBLEM WILL ONLY MAGNIFY 10FOLD.A dead lake cannot rejuvenate.mother nature always takes care of itself,but man can always f&*$ it up.every state bordering lake erie MUST step up and do their part.michigan-regulate and fine the city of detroit for failure to contain and adequately treat sanitary and storm waste,as well as the the river raisin basin.ohio-stop the daily bag limit(the limit that allows anglers to take 6 fish for up to 6 days worth fishing)no other state allows out-of-staters to keep up to 36 fish(canada only allows you to have 4 at the border) ,and last but not least, STOP CANADIAN COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN FROM FISHING IN AMERCAN WATERS.I KNOW SOMEONE WHO DID A STINT ON A COMMERCIAL NETTING BOAT THAT TOLD ME THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO POSSESS WALLEYES THEY HAD TO ROUTINELY DUMP HUNDREDS OF DEAD OR INJURED WALLEYES CAPTURED IN THIER NETS.the netting process wounds or flat-out kills the fish it traps.THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DATA ON HOW MANY FISH ARE DAMAGED BY COMMERCIAL NETS.its really easy to blame the other guys for the problem without looking at your own negative contributions to the problem.commercial fishing is BIG MONEY,all they have to do is "grease" a small number of politicians to keep there regulations.individual fisherman ,personal or professional,must come together for a unified front on this assault on OUR RIGHTS.WE ALL PAY TAXES,yet the commercial fishing industry has twice the lobbying power because it can concentrate its capital on the few with the power to change regulations. we MUST organize and send a unified message to our politicians if we are to have any hope of defending our rights to the best fishery in the great lakes region.regardless of how you feel about the opinions of your fellow anglers,without unification, our voice will not be heard.personally ,it costs me about $100 atrip in gas,turnpike tolls and ramp fees,and i fish about 30-40 times on a good year.this year the weather and algae cut that number in half.NO ONE KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS THESE SMALL AND INSIGNIFICANT NUMBERS BECAUSE WE DON,T COMBINE THEM AND THROW THEM IN OUR POLITICIANS FACE THE WAY THE COMMERCIAL FISHING INDUSTRY HAS.the people and business,s that profit the most from our fishing addictions,need to step up and make thier voices heard.not just the hotels,bait shops,restaraunts,and other north shore business,s,but the big ticket proifiteers like basspro shops,cabelas,gander mountain,etc...NOTHING WILL BE DONE IN OUR FAVOR,TILL WE STEP UP AND MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD.personally i think allowing river fishing during the spawn is stupid,an 18" minimum length is a good thing,out-of staters should pay more for their license,s, a possesion limit over a daily bag limit, and severe penalties for states,cities and municipalities that dump raw sewage into any great lake watershed(lake st. clair included).not that bombing canada is a bad idea, i just don,t think it will solve the problem.


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## walcat (Apr 11, 2004)

roger23 said:


> everything I have read lately if they don't figure out how to stop the algae the fishing is going to go down hill.


Totally agree. If this doesn't happen none of it is going to matter along with those [email protected] carp!


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## M R DUCKS (Feb 20, 2010)

Boat nut...that's funny stuff....ROR!


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## bttmline (Apr 7, 2004)

Walcat has said it all. As long as the algae and other toxins aren't controled there is no use in worrying about spawns, limits and slots.


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

OhYeah said:


> 2010 Private boat walleye harvest: 831,072
> 2010 Charter boat walleye harvest: 127,294
> 2010 Cormorants walleye harvest : ??????? Let's drop their limit !
> <never mind, that would require another tax dollar study>


No study, sell a five dollar Cormorant tag, and let waterfowlers have at 'em. It would be a revenue raker.


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

It looks to me like everybody just better sell their boats while they can. No fish in the lake, so polluted you don't need the Jet Express to get to the Islands anymore, you can evidently walk there now. The doomsday scenario needs to just go away....hell on 12/21/12 everything ends anyway so what is the big deal?


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

Time to start the Stocking Process ! I have mentioned this before But It can and could work if the money was there ! It has Worked In the Gulf for 
Redfish ! Why not here ?? 

I am all for adding $$ To each license as long as it goes to a stocking program ! We stocking most of the inland lakes ! 

We do not have a OVERHARVESTING Issue ! We have POOR survival rates for our Natural Hatched fish. 

OH yea also time to remove all of the comarants !


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

B Thomas said:


> doesnt this discussion surface every autumn/winter?? You guys that want a closed season, let those big fish go in the summer when you catch them too. Ive said what Kgone did for a while, whats the difference if you take a female out of the system in March or July?? You still take a spawning female out..PERIOD! And Freebyrd hit it right on too, you dont need 500,000,000 egg layers for a great hatch or survival, a larger female will lay approx 500,000 eggs...Im pretty sure all the females out there will have enough eggs to drop to supply the lake for the rest of the century but its the other factors that screw up the hatch and survival rate...not lack of eggs!


The difference between taking a female out of the system in March vs. July is 500,000 eggs per female that are never given a chance to hatch....Just saying.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Snakecharmer said:


> The difference between taking a female out of the system in March vs. July is 500,000 eggs per female that are never given a chance to hatch....Just saying.


Which is no different than taking that female the previous july. You still lost those eggs for the next spring.....

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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Bad Bub said:


> Which is no different than taking that female the previous july. You still lost those eggs for the next spring.....
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Uh.. The difference between that walleye in July of 2011 catch vs July of 2012 catch is still 500,000 eggs.....


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## SPOONFEEDER (Jul 6, 2006)

Snakecharmer said:


> Uh.. The difference between that walleye in July of 2011 catch vs July of 2012 catch is still 500,000 eggs.....


So on that thinking, noone would be allowed to catch a female walleye anytime of year, do to not letting her lay eggs the following spring. 

Larry
Spoonfeeder on 79
Sent from Droid Bionic


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## Searay (Feb 12, 2007)

Wow very interesting thread on many view points, here's mine from Oct.1 to May 1, 2 walleye for 2 consecutive yrs. or pos. 3 and lets take a survey from there...


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

Jared, what you are saying makes absolute sense for reducing a limit, not a slot limit.

I hope this thread fizzles out and finishes this discussion for the year. Lots of gut feelings being spewed with absolutely ZERO science behind it.

Last year was an aweful spring. Rain winds mud, just awful conditions. So there were way less walleye caught than in a normal year. Reduced catch made no difference, still a bust. Other Egan controlling pollution and phosphorus levels, its al inl mother natures control


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## eyedreamn (Jun 12, 2011)

Fellow anglers,

By no means am I a biologist. I'm just a dumb electrician who loves to fish Lake Erie. So, i will not try to do the job of the odnr. However, I agree with alot of your comments. No matter how many or how little fish we (anglers) take is a drop in the bucket when your looking at the big picture.
I think these factors are going to shape the future of our great lake. If they don't get resolved NONE of us will be walleye fishing on Lake Erie.

Sewage (which includes the products you and I was down the drain everyday)
Excess farm fertilizers
Zebra mussels 
Gobbies
Asian carp

I think these issues and the complications that they bring are far more hazardous than taking a few extra fish.

Just my 2 cents. Stay tuned folks.........


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## walcat (Apr 11, 2004)

+1000 Amen to that!


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## nightranger (Oct 2, 2011)

i find it highly ironic that the mega-farming of pigs and cows in my area(nw ohio-se mich.)took off about 20 years ago and the timeline of all these bad spawns,as well as the algae blooms,has mirrored that.there is an EPA mandated regulation that does not allow the farm to release manure 24 hrs. before a predicted rain.just last week ,a megafarm released manure up until noon on a day that the rain was going to start around midnight.till the manure/fertilizer applicator hauls it to the field,applies it,it leaves about 6-10 hours of soak time.anyone that believes 6-10 hrs. of soak time in dec. is the same as 6-10 hrs. in july is crazy.the farms MUST get rid this manure and give it away at next to nothing.they can,t let it stand in there "pools" as the stench will anger the locals who have and will report them at the drop of a hat.they push the fertilizer guys to get there early and keep it flowing.a farmer that ,s paying BIG money for chemical fertilizers,won,t apply till absolutely neccessary and when he will get the best bang for his buck. when an overabundant supply of cheap(if not free) fertilizer is given to himm,why not use it.the problem is too much of it runs off into our creeks and streams that ultimately leads to lake erie. i have personally seen more algae in places that it was never in before and at levels not seen ever. the entire river raisin basin is so polluted they post advisories to not eat fish out of these waters or swim in them.between the inadequate sewage processing plants in detroit,the manure runoff in nw. ohio and se mich. we don,t stand a chance of getting this algae problem under control and until we create a better enviroment for the spawning fish, we can,t possibly expect any harvest to prosper.we,re all sportsman here and instead of looking to the real culprits to our diminished enviroment quality,we,re bitching at each other over our beliefs.i,ve tried to look at the farmers point of view but simply can,t get past the fact that they used favorable milk subsidies in the 90,s to open half a dozen MEGA-FARMS within a 30 mile radius.when did we have such a shortage of milk to justify government subsidizing there expansion.the owners ALL emmigrated from norway/sweden/denmark to take up mega-farming in our backyard,yet NO ONE IS POINTING AN ANGRY FINGER THEIR WAY. why are we all trying to cut our throats ,while allowing these enviromental tradgedies to continue.TOXIC ALGAE WILL KILL THE ENTIRE LAKE,not just walleye and perch.wake-up.fight the battles worth fighting and don,t let the politicians blame the sportsman.if lake erie is as bad as they, stop commercial fishing immediately.lets all wake up get unified and fight the enviromental polluters that ARE killing fish populations and stop beating ourselves up .


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## eyedreamn (Jun 12, 2011)

+1 to that!


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## jimski2 (Jul 23, 2010)

The price of gasoline and the destruction of the USA's middle class workforce have cut back the fishing efforts all over the lake. Less fish are being taken since less boat trips are out there. Look at all the old geezers fishing and the lack of youth out there and see what the future for fishing is. If limits are needed, then it should be on an annual basis, not a daily basis. We can not afford to go out every day for a couple fish, well that is the people who fish for food for their family and neighbors.

The survival of the hatch is really effected by the perch and our failure to take enough perch and other fry and minnow predators keeps the walleye numbers down, so take some perch when you go out and balance the harvest of all the fish.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

nightranger said:


> i find it highly ironic that the mega-farming of pigs and cows in my area(nw ohio-se mich.)took off about 20 years ago and the timeline of all these bad spawns,as well as the algae blooms,has mirrored that.there is an EPA mandated regulation that does not allow the farm to release manure 24 hrs. before a predicted rain.just last week ,a megafarm released manure up until noon on a day that the rain was going to start around midnight.till the manure/fertilizer applicator hauls it to the field,applies it,it leaves about 6-10 hours of soak time.anyone that believes 6-10 hrs. of soak time in dec. is the same as 6-10 hrs. in july is crazy.the farms MUST get rid this manure and give it away at next to nothing.they can,t let it stand in there "pools" as the stench will anger the locals who have and will report them at the drop of a hat.they push the fertilizer guys to get there early and keep it flowing.a farmer that ,s paying BIG money for chemical fertilizers,won,t apply till absolutely neccessary and when he will get the best bang for his buck. when an overabundant supply of cheap(if not free) fertilizer is given to himm,why not use it.the problem is too much of it runs off into our creeks and streams that ultimately leads to lake erie. i have personally seen more algae in places that it was never in before and at levels not seen ever. the entire river raisin basin is so polluted they post advisories to not eat fish out of these waters or swim in them.between the inadequate sewage processing plants in detroit,the manure runoff in nw. ohio and se mich. we don,t stand a chance of getting this algae problem under control and until we create a better enviroment for the spawning fish, we can,t possibly expect any harvest to prosper.we,re all sportsman here and instead of looking to the real culprits to our diminished enviroment quality,we,re bitching at each other over our beliefs.i,ve tried to look at the farmers point of view but simply can,t get past the fact that they used favorable milk subsidies in the 90,s to open half a dozen MEGA-FARMS within a 30 mile radius.when did we have such a shortage of milk to justify government subsidizing there expansion.the owners ALL emmigrated from norway/sweden/denmark to take up mega-farming in our backyard,yet NO ONE IS POINTING AN ANGRY FINGER THEIR WAY. why are we all trying to cut our throats ,while allowing these enviromental tradgedies to continue.TOXIC ALGAE WILL KILL THE ENTIRE LAKE,not just walleye and perch.wake-up.fight the battles worth fighting and don,t let the politicians blame the sportsman.if lake erie is as bad as they, stop commercial fishing immediately.lets all wake up get unified and fight the enviromental polluters that ARE killing fish populations and stop beating ourselves up .


The ironic thing is, on one hand we have the gov giving out subsidies to huge businesses yet also spending our tax dollars raiding small, independent businesses whose crime is selling raw milk! what the heck??

http://rt.com/usa/news/food-agents-year-milk/


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

jimski2 said:


> The survival of the hatch is really effected by the perch and our failure to take enough perch and other fry and minnow predators keeps the walleye numbers down, so take some perch when you go out and balance the harvest of all the fish.


Don't think so, the weather, runoff and winds has 50x more to do with the survivel of YOY walleye than perch eating them. Perch and walleye have co existed in lake erie for tens of thousands of years. Walleye and Perch both have a preferered diet and canabilism does exist but not enough to cause a downturn in the entire population.


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## Blorgus (Aug 11, 2011)

There are so many dynamics at work here that we could only hope the biologists have a systematic plan and the legislators and other powers all work in harmony, but each separate issue has to be dealt with individually and adjusted to Mother Nature's way each time she changes the rules.

Here is a good read for those who haven't yet.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/6159/Default.aspx

And another on weather and man-made issues.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/27/us-great-lakes-pollution-idUSTRE79Q6PN20111027

On a sidenote and topic of limits and slots, they can be useful, but it appears the bigger issues need to be addressed, fixed as best as possible first because their damage ceilings are way more than taking an extra fish or two.

Ontario Inland lakes have always had a closed season(spawn), and the past few years adopted slot and harvest reductions due to a declining walleye population. They effectively allow one sexually mature harvest and three younger fish, not daily, but possession at any time. Having fished those areas from the early 1970's to current, I have seen the decline firsthand, as well as the effect of Zebras and how they turned these lakes from plankton filled to ultra Gin Clear, and more and more weed growth.

As on Erie, where the preferred method was drifting live bait, the clarity changed the presentation to stealth trolling. In Ontario, for example, you would catch walleye flatline trolling over shoals, now, you have to ripjig them out of the weedbeds where they seek food and darker water.

I recall a fishing trip to St. Lawrence in the mid 90's, and as odd as it is to fish where freighters head up and down the channel(Zebras included), I found it surprising back then that you could sight fish 30 feet down, as that is how clear the water was, over 15 years ago.

What can be controlled by man as far as the spawning environment and its optimization is priority and gives reproduction its best chance, even when nature deals it a blow every so often, then they need to balance the effects of invasives, and if progress is made, I personally am not against a spring spawn closed or reduced season. Every little bit helps.


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## I_Shock_Em (Jul 20, 2008)

Captain Kevin said:


> No study, sell a five dollar Cormorant tag, and let waterfowlers have at 'em. It would be a revenue raker.


I'd buy one!!! Extra wingshooting practice



On another note... What if walleye fishing was shut down completely for a year? I am not suggesting that this happen. I know that it never will happen. (Please don't tear me apart for bringing it up) I am just wondering what other people's opinions are on this. Would it have a significant impact on the walleye population? Would it even make a difference? Could it have the potential of producing a record hatch? I feel that weather/water conditions would have an impact as to whether it would be successful or not. Obviously the money lost from fishing licenses, tackle, charters, local hotels, restaurants, etc. would be huge and that would be the number one reason for it not happening. It would be very hard to get the fishing shut down in Ohio for a year, but on the entire lake, I'm sure that would be next to impossible. Let's hear your thoughts/ideas/opinions on this


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

I_Shock_Em said:


> I'd buy one!!! Extra wingshooting practice
> 
> 
> 
> On another note... What if walleye fishing was shut down completely for a year? I am not suggesting that this happen. I know that it never will happen. (Please don't tear me apart for bringing it up) I am just wondering what other people's opinions are on this. Would it have a significant impact on the walleye population? Would it even make a difference? Could it have the potential of producing a record hatch? I feel that weather/water conditions would have an impact as to whether it would be successful or not. Obviously the money lost from fishing licenses, tackle, charters, local hotels, restaurants, etc. would be huge and that would be the number one reason for it not happening. It would be very hard to get the fishing shut down in Ohio for a year, but on the entire lake, I'm sure that would be next to impossible. Let's hear your thoughts/ideas/opinions on this


If you're not suggesting it happen and know it will never happen, why even bring such an insane idea up? Every business on the lake that caters to fishing or tourism would implode and be lost and probably never re-gained. I dunno why I'm even responding to such a silly post!!


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## I_Shock_Em (Jul 20, 2008)

boatnut said:


> If you're not suggesting it happen and know it will never happen, why even bring such an insane idea up? Every business on the lake that caters to fishing or tourism would implode and be lost and probably never re-gained. I dunno why I'm even responding to such a silly post!!


I bring it up because it is just a thought to bring up conversation....this is a forum right? Just wanna hear what other people have to say. Outside of $$$ lost to locals, logistics, laws, blah blah blah. Would it work? Would it make a difference? Would it have any impact at all? I figured I would at least get a post or too before getting bashed. As for businesses imploding, you are wrong. Would they take a hit, yes, without a doubt. Would they implode? No. People would still come to fish for smallmouth, perch, and steelhead. The pleasure boaters would still be there. Vacationers would still be there. All economy would not be lost. And to top it off, I was only talking about one year, NOT forever. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, it's just a question


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

If it would actually make a difference id say close the spawn. Problem is its not the number of fish, its not disturbing nests. Its all environmental conditions, of which we as fisherman, humans, inhabitants of earth whatever, have very little impact other than pollution.

If we could minimize pollution in the form of agricultural run off and sewage dumping we would still need mother nature to play along to get some good spawns.


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

I_Shock_Em said:


> On another note... What if walleye fishing was shut down completely for a year? I am not suggesting that this happen. I know that it never will happen. (Please don't tear me apart for bringing it up) I am just wondering what other people's opinions are on this. Would it have a significant impact on the walleye population? Would it even make a difference? Could it have the potential of producing a record hatch? I feel that weather/water conditions would have an impact as to whether it would be successful or not. Obviously the money lost from fishing licenses, tackle, charters, local hotels, restaurants, etc. would be huge and that would be the number one reason for it not happening. It would be very hard to get the fishing shut down in Ohio for a year, but on the entire lake, I'm sure that would be next to impossible. Let's hear your thoughts/ideas/opinions on this


What about Canada's commercial fishing industry? I'm thinking they'll keep netting till the last walleye is gone. But then again they'll probably just start marketing the sheepshead as freshwater tilapia or something.


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## mr. lucky (Nov 22, 2010)

We can say what we want it is still up to the powers that be to decide what happens.

I like the idea of stopping fishing the spawn but that is my opinion. What happens happens


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## snake69 (Sep 26, 2005)

Even shutting it down during the spawn is NOT the solution. Mother Nature plays a big part here. Kind of like Berlin during the spawn when they lowered the water, similar to the the western basin and the winds...left many eggs exposed(Berlin)and the walleye exhausted(Erie). After all the minor arguments on differing things here, I'm shocked this hasn't been locked....ooops, I gave someone an idea!


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## firelands (Oct 5, 2006)

I've listened to the DNR guys, the Ohio Sea Grant, and numerous others when it comes to the declining Walleye pop in Lake Erie. 

Why do almost all the neighboring states close the Walleye season in the Spring spawn period? 

You look at the license plates of those guys fishing the late ice between Pt. Clinton and Toledo and a good number of them are out-of-staters. The Parking lots at the Maumee and Sandusky during the run and again you see numerous out-of-state plates.


Nothing wrong with that per se, but if their states see fit to close the walleye season why don't we.

Talk of the almighty dollar, what's going to happen when the Walleye population really CRASHES and the fisherie goes in the dumper. Charter captains, Bait stores, hotel/motel,
convience stores all closing in major proportions! How much is that going to cost the economy?

The "powers that be" had better figure this one out and quit bowing to the special interests or we're all going to be in deep DO DO!

We'll all have to be going to the neighboring states that used some sense to have quality Walleye fishing!


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## preacherman (Dec 26, 2006)

on the upside, it will make it easier to limit.


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Some of you guys are in dire need of a Travis Hartman Seminar! Ya want to close down things that will have little to no effect on the problem. 

It's the pollution and weather fellas... !%


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## Rod Hawg (Jan 13, 2011)

preacherman said:


> on the upside, it will make it easier to limit.


 That is will Haha


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## fishhogg (Apr 16, 2009)

Isn't it awfully early to start all of this? It's not even January yet. We should just wait and see what happens with the TAC. Slot limits are not what we need at Erie, and if and when they are the DNR will let us know. This has been the wettist season on record and was the main contributing factor to the algie problem. The constant rain washed all of the fertilizer and other crap into the river basins. I feel our DNR does a good job in managing our resources pretty well and we should all relax, take a deep breath, and let the DNR do its job.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

This past spring had horrible weather, with very few fishable days. Thousands and thousands of fish are still swimming that would have surely been caught. From what I've read in the past, the mega hatch of 2003 occured with very similar weather (major wind, rain, and high waves). Maybe this year's hatch will be similar. Also, a few years ago, right when the fall bite was kicking in, we had serious winds for five weeks straight, saving more fish from the hot grease release. 

Whatever the DNR decides to do to help save the resource, I'm all for it.


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## Blorgus (Aug 11, 2011)

Workdog said:


> Some of you guys are in dire need of a Travis Hartman Seminar! Ya want to close down things that will have little to no effect on the problem.
> 
> It's the pollution and weather fellas... !%


I may have conveyed that in my post


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

firelands said:


> I've listened to the DNR guys, the Ohio Sea Grant, and numerous others when it comes to the declining Walleye pop in Lake Erie.
> 
> Why do almost all the neighboring states close the Walleye season in the Spring spawn period?
> 
> ...


Please enlightened me with the neighboring states that close during tghe spawn on ERIE? NY an PA are the only ones. Both of those states have minimal walleye in their part of the lake until the fish migrate east. Their are resident populations but very smasll in comparison.

Mich and Ontario have much more fish in the spring than the eastern end. They are open to fish their ramps are full of out of state plates too.

Ever checked plates in southern Ohio during deer season? Huron in the fall? Its the same as S. Dakota for pheasant, NY for salmon run, or Okeechobee in the Spring. The premier locations draw outdoors people from all over. People want to experience the best the outdoors had to offer and Erie in the Springf is teh Meca to a walleye junky!


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## jimski2 (Jul 23, 2010)

Walleye spawn at water temperatures of 42 to 48 degrees. Setting calender dates to stop fishing, even though the walleyes are not feeding till after they spawn, is really a false act to promote phony stewardship of the resource. Water temperatures of low 50's are when the walleye feed really begins so there is a natural protection of the resource at that time. The rivers warm up first and the power plant water is heated up where the feeding begins first but I think with the price of travel, gasoline, etc. becoming so high, annual limits of 25 walleyes plus ten more for each household member are sufficient to take care of everyone. Take your fish while you can and quit or fish perch and everyone will be happy. Too much effort is wasted on fishless days.


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## jimski2 (Jul 23, 2010)

New York has plenty of walleyes in the spring. The law was written by a sportfishing lobby and passed by the Legislators to stop commercial fishing in NY and it happened after a long term campaign. Well by the mid 1990's the walleye recruitment declined till it was hard to catch a daily limit. The problem was the unharvested perch devoured all the walleye fry every year from 1985 to 2003. By then even the perch recruitment had fallen off so the walleyes had a decent return. The armchair biologists had no clue as to what was happening.


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## stano (Apr 24, 2007)

Talk about out-of state, how many of you have been to Canadian inland lakes? I'd be willing to bet my paycheck that at least half of you have. Think about their conervative limits and slots. Their approach allows great fishing time and time again, but are still experiencing a decline in walleye populations. 

It's time to get serious and protect the Lake Erie fishery...All bull aside, the walleye population is a major concern. Yet, the main objective for most fisherman (myself included) is to "pull a ticket" when in reality, as sportsmen, we should be focused on catching a fish or two and conserving the rest.


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Blorgus said:


> I may have conveyed that in my post


You are absolutely correct! Some things should go without saying (much)...  

I just thought it might be worth (another) mention, to some of the folks here, that we don't need to put a fence around the lake for a year, kill all the commercial fishermen, slaughter all the Perch, tar and feather the weathermen (although that would be kinda fun), put the John Deere sheet spreader division out of business, nor wipe out all pigs and cows within a three state radius (although there has been enough bovine scatology in this thread to last a while). 

I agree with Het: "Whatever the DNR decides to do to help save the resource, I'm all for it." They have science on their side.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2011)

I still think a lot of big females are lost to anglers fishing during the spawn! However they should be protected throughout the season. A slot would be a good idea in my opinion! You see this done in many fisheries all over country with success! Whatever they do...I hope it is soon!


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## bad luck (Apr 9, 2009)

Workdog said:


> You are absolutely correct! Some things should go without saying (much)...
> 
> "Whatever the DNR decides to do to help save the resource, I'm all for it." They have science on their side.


Yeah, their science is great.....lets see deer numbers are ridiculously low, walleye fishing is way down....only they have in common....the all knowing ODNR.......


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

bad luck said:


> Yeah, their science is great.....lets see deer numbers are ridiculously low, walleye fishing is way down....only they have in common....the all knowing ODNR.......


The plan was to reduce deer numbers. Evidently they are doing a pretty good job of that.... as for the walleye, it's not quite as easy to gauge the population when they have no idea how many are being removed each year,what the environment is doing to them, weather, pollution, spawn success, etc....

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## Blorgus (Aug 11, 2011)

Suggest some of you take a hot bath, but afterwards, leave the plug in and the water.

Then, a few days later, take another bath in the old water saved.


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## Team Pursuit (Mar 27, 2008)

bad luck said:


> Yeah, their science is great.....lets see deer numbers are ridiculously low, walleye fishing is way down....only they have in common....the all knowing ODNR.......


are you kidding me? when i started hunting deer we were only allowed to shoot bucks with 4" or bigger antlers, no does were alowwed to be harvested. when my dad was young, nobody shot deer in ohio because we just didnt have them here. now we are allowed to take what, 5 of them a year? the deer population in ohio has thrived because of the odnr. as far as walleye fishing goes we had a great year when we got out. the weather just stunk this year. it was the wettest year in history. most of us who follow the fish and are not stuck in one part of the lake had fantastic fishing this year. i checked my log from the 2003 season and as Het said, it was very simular to this year minus the algee


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## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

bad luck said:


> Yeah, their science is great.....lets see deer numbers are ridiculously low, walleye fishing is way down....only they have in common....the all knowing ODNR.......


Sorry for your deer problems...I had nine of em in my yard yesterday.

For the past two years, in the first week of March, Erie Outfitters has hosted a day of seminars, including one on the state of the fisheries. Hopefully, they have these seminars this year too. If so, I *highly *recommend you attend. You will see what goes into the decision of how they set the TAC allowance for the year, and what effects fishermen, commercial netting and environment have on the numbers of Walleye and Perch.

States surrounding Lake Erie do not seem to be like those around the Chesapeake Bay for example. Small, but well-funded interests in Virginia are literally wiping out the baitfish (Menhaden) that sustains the entire bay's fish population. From what I have seen of ODNR and all those who help support the fishery of Lake Erie, they actually seem to have the fish's best interest in mind.


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## jimski2 (Jul 23, 2010)

The megafarms have the finances to use manure injectors to fertilize their cropland. The liquid manure collected each day is injected below the soil surface under a high pressure nozzle after a small plow opens the soil up.Very little manure is lost to the watershed this way as there is a value to collect and reuse the byproduct of Dairy Farming rather than purchasing chemical fertilizers.

Without algae, there would be no fish.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

bad luck said:


> Yeah, their science is great.....lets see deer numbers are ridiculously low, walleye fishing is way down....only they have in common....the all knowing ODNR.......



No one claimed it is an 'exact' science, but they sure have more resources at hand to figure out what's going on than a bunch of armchair biologists. The spring perch bite was better than I've seen it in a long time. The late spring/summer walleye fishing was good, as usual, and the eastern late summer walleye fishing was way above average. Judging by the reports, the fall nightime fishing was better than it has been in years. None of the guys I talk to throughout the season had trouble finding fish this year. Most, if not all of them had a very good year. Most of them also said they caught a good number of sub-legal fish, as i did.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

jimski2 said:


> The megafarms have the finances to use manure injectors to fertilize their cropland. The liquid manure collected each day is injected below the soil surface under a high pressure nozzle after a small plow opens the soil up.Very little manure is lost to the watershed this way as there is a value to collect and reuse the byproduct of Dairy Farming rather than purchasing chemical fertilizers.
> 
> Without algae, there would be no fish.


Jim, you are right but there are two types of algae in lake erie. Read this to understand the different you are consfusing the two or you don't know the difference. http://ohiodnr.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=34w0oXnshpw=&tabid=9372 

Based on many of your comments it is 100% clear that you guys are just throwing comments out there based on zero scientific fact. Workdog has said a couple times you guys need to attend a seminar by Travis Hartman I couldn't agree more. You will learn alot about the lake, it's cycles, YOY walleye, patterns, how TOC is set and how that effects limits, growth rates, basically all the stuff you should know being an Erie fisherman. 

I wish he would chime in but I don't blame him for not responding to all this nonsense and drivel that makes non sense it's like arguing with a 5 year old. 

"deer numbers are ridiculously low" Yeah Okay...Ohio has one of the best deer herds in the united states. 

"I still think a lot of big females are lost to anglers fishing during the spawn" 

Nope. You obviously don't fish in March and April much. In the last 10 years my boat has probably seen 20 females I've caught trolling most of them came in two trips when the troll bite turned in late march all the other fish are post spawn. You hardly catch females while jigging it happens but not very often and I know alot of fisherman who are out early in the year. Regardless a female taken is a female taken, alot get taken in the rivers but if the river washes them away it's a moot point anyways and 80% of Erie's walleye spawn in the lake not the rivers.


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## Danfc80 (Nov 16, 2011)

ODNR is lowering the Blue Pike limit to zero based on their recent scientific research. Just wondering who was responsible for that resource?
ODNR released pen raised turkeys for 40 years before they realized they died because they were too dumb to roost in trees.
ODNR takes credit for all the deer we have. They actually just walked in from Pennsylvania.
However, I do give ODNR credit for trying to protect and conserve our tremendous outdoor resources since no other government agency seems to even care.


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## justin (Oct 26, 2005)

K gonefishin said:


> Based on many of your comments it is 100% clear that you guys are just throwing comments out there based on zero scientific fact. Workdog has said a couple times you guys need to attend a seminar by Travis Hartman I couldn't agree more. You will learn alot about the lake, it's cycles, YOY walleye, patterns, how TOC is set and how that effects limits, growth rates, basically all the stuff you should know being an Erie fisherman.
> 
> I wish he would chime in but I don't blame him for not responding to all this nonsense and drivel that makes non sense it's like arguing with a 5 year old.


Great comments!


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by K gonefishin
> Based on many of your comments it is 100% clear that you guys are just throwing comments out there based on zero scientific fact. Workdog has said a couple times you guys need to attend a seminar by Travis Hartman I couldn't agree more. You will learn alot about the lake, it's cycles, YOY walleye, patterns, how TOC is set and how that effects limits, growth rates, basically all the stuff you should know being an Erie fisherman.
> 
> I wish he would chime in but I don't blame him for not responding to all this nonsense and drivel that makes non sense it's like arguing with a 5 year old.
> ...


Very well stated!!


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## nightranger (Oct 2, 2011)

JIMSKIits good that you are aware of an alternative to the REAL LIFE application of manure ,unfortunately the reality is,the mega farms don,t own the manure spreading companies. these are separate contractors ,doing things the way they see fit.I KNOW THE OWNERS OF THE MEGAFARMS PERSONALLY AS WELL AS THE MANURE SPREADERS.we have had several heated discussions on the to[pic of manure spreading and i have been labeled the tree-hugging enviromentalist that threatens there lucrative business.the danish owner of one farm told me to my face that he didn,t care about the runoff because he would never eat a fish that came out of lake erie.i told him if he didn,t like our epa, he could always take his farm back to norway.he just laughed and went about his business.these are not professionally ran operations.it is nothing more than an ambitous bunch of tightwad foreigners exploiting our government subsidies to line there pockets,ship the money backto norway ,all the while shitting on our enviroment.next time i have the displeasure of being at one of there social gatherings,i,ll secretly tape them so you can hear there anti-american rants,backhanded insults of our way of life , as well as there disrespectful abuse to our landscape.the utopian idea that these guys are in any way professional,responsible,or in any way accountable is ludicrous.they sub-contract the "fertilizer guys" so they can be unaccountable for the timeline violations.they WILL NOT do the "**** work" themselves and exploit the sub-contractor rules to break enviromental laws.as long as they don,t release the manure after noon,they can,t be held responsible for the actions of another contractor.i,ve been witnessing this for over a decade now and the sight of these scandinavian mafios,s trashing "our soil"(exact words spoken to my face)they take great pride in their soil on the other side of the world,but give no regrets for trshing ours(and then top it of with an insult in gaelic danish that i can,t understand.i find it especially troublesome when they speak amongst themselves in there native tounge,specifically so the "dumb americans can,t understand them .they consider themselves superior to us. there are NO AMERICANS in any management positions in any of there operations.the americans are used to fill low paying crap work positions .all foreman, manager, and "power positions" are filled with danish speaking immigrants sent over here for that specific purpose.the most beligerant,foul mouthed misfits, are top management people in the states(when they get into trouble over there,they are shipped over here as punishment)NO AMERICANS ARE IN A HIGH ENOUGH MANAGEMENT POSITION TO CHANGE ANY POLICIES AT THESE FARMS.no american started these megafarms.this was a foriegn idea inflicted on us because our government subsidized milk production.we paid them to "educate" us on their "superior farm techniques".please visit these farms,meet these people , and you will most certainly come away with the same distain for them that i have .THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE STEWARDS OF OUR ENVIROMENT.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

> jimskiits good that you are aware of an alternative to the real life application of manure ,unfortunately the reality is,the mega farms don,t own the manure spreading companies. These are separate contractors ,doing things the way they see fit.i know the owners of the megafarms personally as well as the manure spreaders.we have had several heated discussions on the to[pic of manure spreading and i have been labeled the tree-hugging enviromentalist that threatens there lucrative business.the danish owner of one farm told me to my face that he didn,t care about the runoff because he would never eat a fish that came out of lake erie.i told him if he didn,t like our epa, he could always take his farm back to norway.he just laughed and went about his business.these are not professionally ran operations.it is nothing more than an ambitous bunch of tightwad foreigners exploiting our government subsidies to line there pockets,ship the money backto norway ,all the while shitting on our enviroment.next time i have the displeasure of being at one of there social gatherings,i,ll secretly tape them so you can hear there anti-american rants,backhanded insults of our way of life , as well as there disrespectful abuse to our landscape.the utopian idea that these guys are in any way professional,responsible,or in any way accountable is ludicrous.they sub-contract the "fertilizer guys" so they can be unaccountable for the timeline violations.they will not do the "**** work" themselves and exploit the sub-contractor rules to break enviromental laws.as long as they don,t release the manure after noon,they can,t be held responsible for the actions of another contractor.i,ve been witnessing this for over a decade now and the sight of these scandinavian mafios,s trashing "our soil"(exact words spoken to my face)they take great pride in their soil on the other side of the world,but give no regrets for trshing ours(and then top it of with an insult in gaelic danish that i can,t understand.i find it especially troublesome when they speak amongst themselves in there native tounge,specifically so the "dumb americans can,t understand them .they consider themselves superior to us. There are no americans in any management positions in any of there operations.the americans are used to fill low paying crap work positions .all foreman, manager, and "power positions" are filled with danish speaking immigrants sent over here for that specific purpose.the most beligerant,foul mouthed misfits, are top management people in the states(when they get into trouble over there,they are shipped over here as punishment)no americans are in a high enough management position to change any policies at these farms.no american started these megafarms.this was a foriegn idea inflicted on us because our government subsidized milk production.we paid them to "educate" us on their "superior farm techniques".please visit these farms,meet these people , and you will most certainly come away with the same distain for them that i have .they are not responsible stewards of our enviroment.





LOL...wow...didn't read!


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

night ranger,
GREAT post but could you please add some paragraph breaks? hard on my eyes to read it without .


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## jimski2 (Jul 23, 2010)

It is simple to cut the walleye take, just let the oil companies and tax eaters raise the price on gasoline and for sure less fish will be taken. No studies, agreements, hearings and Mahogany Ridge discussions will be needed then.


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