# steel eyes



## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

why is it that steelhead are as big as walleye but they dont eat the same size of food? they even live in the same waters yet eat different size foods. why is this?


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

Castmaster - When the steelies are out in the lake, they're chowing on the same forage as the walleye. I guess once they get in the rivers, they do act a little different - almost like they're a stream trout, taking small flies and such.
They'll still hit a large shiner (or a tube jig , or a leech, or a big nightcrawler ) just like a walleye will too, though.


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

Steelhead spend most of their lives in the open lake sharing the same food source as the walleye. When steelhead return to the rivers to spawn they adapt to a riverine diet.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

Castmaster:

What's more amazing is that steelhead grow 10-15x the speed of a walleye, don't know if you know this but a steelhead will reach 9-11 pounds at age 3 and will be 30-32 inches long. Walleye take over 20 years in lake erie to reach 30 inches and 10 pounds. Yet they eat the same food and probably eat just as much as each other, same with King Salmon a 4 year old fish is 40 inches long or better and weighs 26-40 pounds, I swear if you attached a camera to them you can watch them grow.


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## Columbusslim31 (Sep 1, 2007)

K gonefishin said:


> Castmaster:
> 
> What's more amazing is that steelhead grow 10-15x the speed of a walleye, don't know if you know this but a steelhead will reach 9-11 pounds at age 3 and will be 30-32 inches long. Walleye take over 20 years in lake erie to reach 30 inches and 10 pounds. Yet they eat the same food and probably eat just as much as each other, same with King Salmon a 4 year old fish is 40 inches long or better and weighs 26-40 pounds, I swear if you attached a camera to them you can watch them grow.




Sounds like a walleye/steelhead hybrid needs to be developed. I wonder what that would taste like?


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

> I wonder what that would taste like?


Hopefully NOT like a Rocky River steelie....... 

Cripes, if it didn't work right, you'd have a fish that fought like a walleye  
and tasted like a steelhead


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

creekcrawler said:


> Hopefully NOT like a Rocky River steelie.......
> 
> Cripes, if it didn't work right, you'd have a fish that fought like a walleye
> and tasted like a steelhead



Hey now  not all walleye fight like sissy girls...(alot do tho) I've done battle with some horses this year that I couldn't budge at all, I swear I was never going to get them to the boat, drag singing and bulldog fighters are out there, just not all of them.


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

why is it that steelies switch to a small riverine diet though? shouldn't the fish just keep eating big prey items?


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## BigDaddy300 (Nov 1, 2004)

Not alot of big prey items in the river as there are out in the lake.


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

creek chubs, eels ,baby bass ,rats ,mice , nightcrawlers shall i go on?


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## lucky1 (Jun 6, 2007)

When they are in the rivers, all of their energy is devoted to spawning; out of instinct of course. Naturally via chemical changes in their bodies, they devote minimal energy to chasing down large prey, and become opportunistic. This is why small minnows, flies, and maggots work so well. They consume just enough food to have energy to sustain life. Eels, baby bass, and rats don't fall under that food group. It's adaptation, just like why they change colors when they are in the river.


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## RBud1080 (May 14, 2007)

castmaster00 said:


> creek chubs, eels ,baby bass ,rats ,mice , nightcrawlers shall i go on?


How many creek chubs, eels, baby bass, rats, mice, and nightcrawlers you see swimming around the rivers this time of year? I've lived on the rocky river for 25 years and never seen any of those this time of year. Nor ever found them in a river steelheads belly.


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

One reason is, once the water gets cold a fish's metabolism slows, they'll get picky.
Sometimes they'd expend more energy (calories) than they get from the food
they're chasing, so they won't chase big baits unless it's an easy meal- like, right in front of them. I guess it's easier for them to sit next to the current and snag whatever washes by, than to go chasing faster dinners.
That being said, if a juicy crawler drifts right by their nose they will definitely inhale it.

Ummmm, castmaster, what river are you fishing that has eels in it??


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

creekcrawler said:


> One reason is, once the water gets cold a fish's metabolism slows, they'll get picky.
> Sometimes they'd expend more energy (calories) than they get from the food
> they're chasing, so they won't chase big baits unless it's an easy meal- like, right in front of them. I guess it's easier for them to sit next to the current and snag whatever washes by, than to go chasing faster dinners.
> That being said, if a juicy crawler drifts right by their nose they will definitely inhale it.
> ...


tusc up by kim tam. they hide in the reeds and i can pull them out with a small tube.


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

I think castmaster is referring to the Lamprey. Six species are native to ohio. The Silver Lamprey lives in the open lake and makes its spawning run up the tribs in June. Not a likely food source in the rivers this time of year though.


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## jojopro (Oct 9, 2007)

K gonefishin said:


> Castmaster:
> 
> What's more amazing is that steelhead grow 10-15x the speed of a walleye, don't know if you know this but a steelhead will reach 9-11 pounds at age 3 and will be 30-32 inches long. Walleye take over 20 years in lake erie to reach 30 inches and 10 pounds. Yet they eat the same food and probably eat just as much as each other, same with King Salmon a 4 year old fish is 40 inches long or better and weighs 26-40 pounds, I swear if you attached a camera to them you can watch them grow.


Yes steelhead grow rather quickly once they enter the big lake, but not that fast. A 30"-32" steelhead is probably more like 7 or 8 years old. http://www.ohiodnr.com/Home/Fishing...hingfairportsteelhead/tabid/6166/Default.aspx Steelhead smolts are stocked by the ODNR when they are about 2 years old and around 8" long. The smolts make their way to the big lake and gorge themselves on just about anything that moves and will about double in size after their first year in the lake. The you steelheads usually spend 2 summers in the lake before they begin to make spawning runs up the Lake Erie tributaries. When a steelhead makes a spawning run after spending just one year in the lake it is referred to as a "skipper" because the fish 'skipped' its second year in the lake to make an early spawning run. 



K gonefishin said:


> Hey now  not all walleye fight like sissy girls...


And yes, all walleyes do fight like sissy girls!  The only way I really enjoy walleye fishing is durring the Maumee River walleye run, where you feel like the walleye are fighting as you reel them out of the fast currents. What they lack in fight, they more than make up for in yumminess!

John


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## BigDaddy300 (Nov 1, 2004)

jojopro said:


> And yes, all walleyes do fight like sissy girls!
> 
> John


Really! Try hooking a 5 pounder on a short line in skinny water and see if it is a sissy.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

BigDaddy300 said:


> Really! Try hooking a 5 pounder on a short line in skinny water and see if it is a sissy.


Yeah if you think ALL walleye fight like sissy's you haven't caught very many. I've caught some (not all) that would put a steelie to shame, I caught a few steelies on the lake this year that swam right into the net what a disapointment those were. I like catching every species of fish so it doesn't matter to me. I've caught some moster walleye, steelies, kings and musky...all fun as hell to catch IMO.


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## BigDaddy300 (Nov 1, 2004)

castmaster00 said:


> creek chubs, eels ,baby bass ,rats ,mice , nightcrawlers shall i go on?


Yes please do go on! You are right though. I forgot about the rats and mice swimming around in the rivers. Actually just the other day I did tie on a topwater mouse looking bait and caught 3 steelies. Those would not be considered natural big prey items. Even if they were, a steelie could not open its mouth wide enough to eat them. 

I was referring to your original question about why they do in the lake and not in the rivers. They eat big smelt and shiners in the lake. There are not any significant numbers of "big" smelt, shiners or any kind of minnows in the rivers. But if there were then they would probably eat them if they could. When they feed it is on the abundant food source.


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

BigDaddy300 said:


> Yes please do go on! You are right though. I forgot about the rats and mice swimming around in the rivers. Actually just the other day I did tie on a topwater mouse looking bait and caught 3 steelies. Those would not be considered natural big prey items. Even if they were, a steelie could not open its mouth wide enough to eat them.
> 
> I was referring to your original question about why they do in the lake and not in the rivers. They eat big smelt and shiners in the lake. There are not any significant numbers of "big" smelt, shiners or any kind of minnows in the rivers. But if there were then they would probably eat them if they could. When they feed it is on the abundant food source.


there are tons of 5in. creek chubs by where i live and i know that there are 12 inchers in the grand by the harpersfield bridge. there are steelies in there around the same time as well.


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## jojopro (Oct 9, 2007)

jojopro said:


> And yes, all walleyes do fight like sissy girls!
> 
> John





BigDaddy300 said:


> Really! Try hooking a 5 pounder on a short line in skinny water and see if it is a sissy.





K gonefishin said:


> Yeah if you think ALL walleye fight like sissy's you haven't caught very many. I've caught some (not all) that would put a steelie to shame, I caught a few steelies on the lake this year that swam right into the net what a disapointment those were. I like catching every species of fish so it doesn't matter to me. I've caught some moster walleye, steelies, kings and musky...all fun as hell to catch IMO.


I have caught plenty of walleyes both out on Lake Erie and during the spring Maumee River run, and not even the meanest, baddest, hardest fighting walleye I've ever caught comes close to the average fight of say a steelhead, smallmouth, pike, and on and on. I'm not trying to belittle walleye, or walleye fishing at all. They are Ohio's marquee game fish, and along with perch are the tastiest fish to be caught in Ohio. I'm just saying that pound for pound, would you really rank walleye near the top of the list in fight? Think about this...how many times have you hooked into a fish, and your fishing partner says "is it a walleye?" and your response is "nope, can't be a walleye, it's fighting too good"? When you fish a lot and catch lots of different species you learn to identify what type of fish you have hooked before you can even see it based on the way it is fighting, as I'm sure you guys are aware. Generally when you hook into a walleye it will do barrel roles and shake it's head violently but not really try to run. After the initial hookup fight, the head shakes lessen as you are reeling the fish in. Then when the fish gets close to the surface and sees the boat they finally make an attempt to run. I have actually found that the big HAWGS (true 10lb females over 30") actually offer up the least fight when hooked, you just kinda drag 'em on in wondering if it's a log or a fish. 

John


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

You are all whacked............ounce for ounce creek chubs put up the best fight....................;-)

On the original topic, I think the metabolism and life cycle changes that coincide with the trout being in the rivers are the main reasons for the small prey diets.

On the other hand, I've had quite a few fresh and salt water preditor tanks and even the largest fish liked "popcorn" sized snacks.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

" I'm just saying that pound for pound, would you really rank walleye near the top of the list in fight?" 

I didn't say they rank near the top they don't but they do fight, pound for pound steelies and smallmouth probably fight the best, I would even go as far as saying bluegill (pound for pound) will rank near the top, can you image a fight with a 5 pound bluegill  

Yeah and thanks for the lesson on how walleye fight, I didn't happen to forget, I tangle with a few eye balls every year  :B 




jojopro said:


> I have caught plenty of walleyes both out on Lake Erie and during the spring Maumee River run, and not even the meanest, baddest, hardest fighting walleye I've ever caught comes close to the average fight of say a steelhead, smallmouth, pike, and on and on. I'm not trying to belittle walleye, or walleye fishing at all. They are Ohio's marquee game fish, and along with perch are the tastiest fish to be caught in Ohio. I'm just saying that pound for pound, would you really rank walleye near the top of the list in fight? Think about this...how many times have you hooked into a fish, and your fishing partner says "is it a walleye?" and your response is "nope, can't be a walleye, it's fighting too good"? When you fish a lot and catch lots of different species you learn to identify what type of fish you have hooked before you can even see it based on the way it is fighting, as I'm sure you guys are aware. Generally when you hook into a walleye it will do barrel roles and shake it's head violently but not really try to run. After the initial hookup fight, the head shakes lessen as you are reeling the fish in. Then when the fish gets close to the surface and sees the boat they finally make an attempt to run. I have actually found that the big HAWGS (true 10lb females over 30") actually offer up the least fight when hooked, you just kinda drag 'em on in wondering if it's a log or a fish.
> 
> John


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

Walleye fight like boots! How many walleye's have anyone caught that jump out of the water. Or take 20-100yrd runs. If you have, either your drag was too tight to light or your just flat out dreaming. LOL

The steelhead that fight poorly have been hooked before and or have been in the river for an extended period of time. and or the water is 33 degrees.

Steelhead fight for their lives!


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

MEISTERICS said:


> Walleye fight like boots! How many walleye's have anyone caught that jump out of the water. Or take 20-100yrd runs. If you have, either your drag was too tight to light or your just flat out dreaming. LOL
> 
> The steelhead that fight poorly have been hooked before and or have been in the river for an extended period of time. and or the water is 33 degrees.
> 
> Steelhead fight for their lives!


Your right Jared they do, walleye and steelhead can't be compared as far as fight...this post got way wacked.


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## krustydawg (Apr 26, 2004)

Moody, tasty, lazy walleye !


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

krustydawg said:


> Stupid lazy walleye !


You forgot tasty  ...I wouldn't go as far as calling them stupid though...I've been stumped by the elusive eye balls on more than one occasion, moody would be another good word for them


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

I just went out at lunchtime. 
I tied the tail of a walleye to the tail of a steelhead.
The steelhead won......




> this post got way wacked.


    



> Stupid lazy walleye !


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

Got any video? LOL


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## BigDaddy300 (Nov 1, 2004)

jojopro said:


> I have caught plenty of walleyes both out on Lake Erie and during the spring Maumee River run, and not even the meanest, baddest, hardest fighting walleye I've ever caught comes close to the average fight of say a steelhead, smallmouth, pike, and on and on. I'm not trying to belittle walleye, or walleye fishing at all. They are Ohio's marquee game fish, and along with perch are the tastiest fish to be caught in Ohio. I'm just saying that pound for pound, would you really rank walleye near the top of the list in fight? Think about this...how many times have you hooked into a fish, and your fishing partner says "is it a walleye?" and your response is "nope, can't be a walleye, it's fighting too good"? When you fish a lot and catch lots of different species you learn to identify what type of fish you have hooked before you can even see it based on the way it is fighting, as I'm sure you guys are aware. Generally when you hook into a walleye it will do barrel roles and shake it's head violently but not really try to run. After the initial hookup fight, the head shakes lessen as you are reeling the fish in. Then when the fish gets close to the surface and sees the boat they finally make an attempt to run. I have actually found that the big HAWGS (true 10lb females over 30") actually offer up the least fight when hooked, you just kinda drag 'em on in wondering if it's a log or a fish.
> 
> John


Never did compare it to any other fish for fighting ability. They do put up some fight though and I have had a few of them attempt to jump and come partially out of the water. I have had to chase more than 1 fish around the boat and under the motors.


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## BigDaddy300 (Nov 1, 2004)

castmaster00 said:


> there are tons of 5in. creek chubs by where i live and i know that there are 12 inchers in the grand by the harpersfield bridge. there are steelies in there around the same time as well.


How many steelies are in that river where you live with the 5" chubs? I wouldn't consider 12" chubs "big prey". Those are practically game fish sized!


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## bcnulater (May 7, 2007)

There used to be tons of steelies at the Harpersfield Dam. Off the wall with golf ball sized egg sacs worked great. Wade out to the middle and let your line float away with weighted bobbers ,foo foo jigs & maggots too.Been 20 years since I've been there so I'm not responsible for any results.


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## fishingguy (Jan 5, 2006)

I agree, there is no doubt between a steelie and a walleye when they first hit. That is why when a steelie hits I immediately put the reel in free spool for a couple hundred yards in hope that he comes off. Steelies are the same as sheephead, good fight but nothing else. I suppose they are good smoked, but so are carp, sheephead and last years work boots.


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## liquidsoap (Oct 22, 2005)

IMHO, its a lot of work to get up the river and they are just going to go for the easiest meal. That being said I doubt a steelhead would pass up a decent sized shad that is injured.


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## liquidsoap (Oct 22, 2005)

BigDaddy300 said:


> How many steelies are in that river where you live with the 5" chubs? I wouldn't consider 12" chubs "big prey". Those are practically game fish sized!


We caught a few in a creek out west, that were well over 12". They would litterly eat your bobber they were stacked so heavy. And boy did they fight!
Kept a few for catfish cut bait and I think the even the catfish were intimidated by its size. There was a few pike in the creek that we would catch now and then. But the creek chubs would eat everything you threw, including spinnerbaits. So it was very hard to get to them and it was very rare.


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## jojopro (Oct 9, 2007)

creekcrawler said:


> I just went out at lunchtime.
> I tied the tail of a walleye to the tail of a steelhead.
> The steelhead won......


 Thats hilarious!  That would actually be a pretty sweet thing to see. 

Okay sorry for causing this post to get 'wacked'. I was just poking a little fun at the general lack of fight that walleye display. I guess I should have said that every walleye that *I* have ever caught fought like a sissy girl, and I have yet to tangle with one of the hard fighting ones. 

Anyways....Back to the original topic of this thread. 



castmaster00 said:


> why is it that steelhead are as big as walleye but they dont eat the same size of food? they even live in the same waters yet eat different size foods. why is this?


Steelhead are perhaps some of the most opportunistic feeders of all the fish in our state, meaning that they are not too picky and will take advantage of any easy meal that they come across. While in the lake, both walleye and steelhead feed primarily on the same small baifish because that is the most abundant forage. Once the steelhead get settled into the streams, they do much less chasing after food and rather will hold in one spot and let the current bring the food to them. It's the forage that is unable to swim against swift currents that makes up the bulk of a steelhead's diet in a stream, (i.e. eggs, nymphs, larvaes, worms, injured or dead baitfish, etc.). Since fish are cold blooded, they require some warmth from the water they live in to energize them. This is why earlier (Fall) and later (Spring) in the season steelhead are more willing to chase after an angler's spoon or spinner and will fight a lot harder when hooked. Mid season (Winter) the cold water equals less energized fish that often can't be hooked unless you drift your bait right into their face, and steelhead will generally offer up the least amount of fight when hooked this time of year. Especially in the cold water, these fish want to use as little energy as possible to get their food and most of the smaller forage drifting in the current actually has a much higher caloric content ounce per ounce than the baitfish. So the steelies are burning less calories and taking in more calories (ounce per ounce). It's all about the easy meal!

John


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

so would a curl-tailed grub on a lead ball head jig work well in the currents and river of ohio? as it sits in the current, the water makes the grub wave in the current, while the lead head jig keeps it on the bottom. would this be a good technique for fall spring and winter? or would it flop. i am not traveling for the winter until christmas and then i think that i might be too busy. spring sounds good though.....


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## Jeffish1 (May 1, 2004)

You can really tell that everyone needs to get outside...soon!


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## lucky1 (Jun 6, 2007)

#1: There's limited big prey items... if that doesn't answer your question see #2...

#2: Ask God



castmaster00 said:


> why is it that steelies switch to a small riverine diet though? shouldn't the fish just keep eating big prey items?


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## JDBFISHIN (Jun 8, 2007)

Castmaster. One important thing to remember is work you offering with the current not against it. The fish will be pointed with noses against curreent. When you work your offering work it slow and as close to the bottom as you can get, depending on the whole you are fishing it may take a cast or 2 to judge how deep the hole is.


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

JDBFISHIN said:


> Castmaster. One important thing to remember is work you offering with the current not against it. The fish will be pointed with noses against curreent. When you work your offering work it slow and as close to the bottom as you can get, depending on the whole you are fishing it may take a cast or 2 to judge how deep the hole is.


i usually fish at the grand for steelies. harpersfield bridge. 3 ft. deep at deepest.


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

Castmaster - A Curly tail & jig are my buddies regular steelie set up.
1/8 or 1/16 oz jig, 2" or 3" curly tail in white or yellow. Another overlooked bait is a 3" tube jig, just like you'd throw for smallmouth.


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

creekcrawler said:


> Castmaster - Another overlooked bait is a 3" tube jig, just like you'd throw for smallmouth.


what color, is it internally weighted, and should there be any action to it? i always texas rig my tubes for largemouth fishing with no weight. the bass of both species go crazy over them. man 6# largemouth on a wieghtless hook..... geez thats a fun day. i let the weight of the hook drag the tube down. pitchin it around trees and stuff. wow. you have to try it this summer. it is the bomb.


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## jcustunner24 (Aug 20, 2007)

castmaster00 said:


> man 6# largemouth on a wieghtless hook..... it is the bomb.


so is a photo of these 6 pounders


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

jcustunner24 said:


> so is a photo of these 6 pounders


i have them on my phone i just dont know how to get them off.


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## jcustunner24 (Aug 20, 2007)

Plenty of free options there depending on the phone you have - if you want help, pm me, I'll walk you through it.


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## DanAdelman (Sep 19, 2005)

6# bass is huge congrats for catching one at such a young age...would love to see a photo...Did you weight it or are you guesstimating...
walleye are good for eating...
steelhead are good for fighting...


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

Castmaster - for the river,smallies and steelies, you want to get the 1/8 oz
jig heads that go inside the tubes. Green, brown, pumpkin work good.


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

jcustunner24 said:


> Plenty of free options there depending on the phone you have - if you want help, pm me, I'll walk you through it.


i have a razor and my dad doesn't have a cord to get the pic onto the comp. oh and i guesstimated but the thing had to be 20 in. long and 18 " around so i guessed 6 to 6.5 lbs.


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## CatfishWilly (Dec 30, 2007)

I was reading this thread and saw you guys talking about what has the best fight.... you haven't lived untill you've reeled in a mean old beaver! I was catfishing a little earlier than normal out on Mogadore about a year ago and accidently tied up with a big fella. I couldn't tell that it wasn't a cat untill he was right at my feet. Let me tell you, if you reel something in and it gets to shore and starts trying to kill you that's a damn good fight in anyone's book! I felt pretty bad because if I was only using mono and not braided line he might have got off with a little less undue stress. My buddy had to pin him down with a big branch so we could cut the big hook out ot his cheek ( I had bolt cutters with long handles in the truck). Never no what you're gonna get out on those waters!


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## boomerfishin (Nov 26, 2008)

thats got to be the funniest crap that has happened my first passion is cat fishin and you are sooooo rite you never ever know what you will hookup with during a nice night of cattin. i can see what happened w the beaver in my mind that is great!! and hilarious kind of like accidently hookin a turtle , not knowing till its close but multiply by 10, great stuff dude i love it


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## castmaster00 (Oct 23, 2007)

i remember one time i was walking down a creek and i saw a 40 lb. turtle in the middle. i had a cast on my arm but i jumped in anyways. hauled this thing out and i had this sense of pride that i had just caught a monster turtle from a 1 1/2 ft. deep creek. captured this thing and found out that it was an alligator snapping turtle! they are supposed to be south of the ohio! wonder how it got there. i later released the turtle after it broke the crate it was in with its nose. caught it behind a crating company and a pizza hut. he must have gotten fat off of eating pizza.


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