# "Over motoring" boat



## musclebeach22 (Feb 15, 2012)

Hey guys, I know most of you are going to say it's a bad idea because that's not what the boat safety plate says, and I could get ticketed for it, but what do you guys think about putting a 40hp on a boat rated for 35hp? I'm asking for several reasons. First, it is extremely difficult to find a 30hp or 35hp short shaft tiller in good shape. Second, the price of a used 40hp is typically the same as a used 30 or 35. Third, I fish mostly rivers, and if you fish any fast moving rivers, you know that you want all the hp you can get. Besides being checked by division of watercraft and being ticketed, what issues might I have? I know the transom may not be able to handle the torque or thrust produced by a 40hp but what if I only run the 40 at 3/4 throttle? I could really use any tips, recommendations, and comments, good or bad. Do any of you guys "over motor" your boats? Not sure if the type of boat matters, but I have a 1994 alumaweld mod-v. Structurally, the boat is in great condition.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

I inquired on why I couldn't get a bigger motor for my Ranger. They said it had nothing to do with the transom but had to do with the stringers that make up the boat. Still makes no sense to me.. But, I'll take the word of the expert..


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## 2120Tom (Jul 2, 2008)

If your boat is rated at 35hp, I don't believe a 40 will make a lot of difference. The weight of both motors will likely be the same or very close and 5hp more should be a slight noticeable difference. You may have to re-prop the motor to find a sweet spot for boat attitude running higher speed or you could always govern the throttle to keep it from running wide open if it gets too scary.
Now,, if you have insurance on the boat and an accident would occur, this is where it would get sticky. Something to consider!


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## backfar (Sep 24, 2014)

You've answered most of your own questions in the op...you say that if you only run 3/4 throttle it should be ok...but also say the extra power would be nice on the rivers???i personally believe you would be just fine with a 40 if the boat is rated for a 35...if it were my boat i would stay with a 35 just because i don't like to be biting my fingernails off if i get a safety check....and with most small boats they do check the hp plate...just my 2cents


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## beaver (Sep 28, 2010)

Get a 40, spray paint the cowl camo to match the boat, and voila it's a 35 horsepower.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

The boat may handle the very little extra HP perfectly, but IMO, that's not the point.
If anything, I'd be more worried if something unfortunate were to happen out on the lake like a wreck, capsizing etc. involving LE and ultimately, attorneys. They will beat you to death in court for being over rated whether incident is your fault or not. 
IMO, just not worth the risk. 
Furthermore, I doubt the performance difference between a 35 and 40 will even be noticeable. And with re-jetting the carb on your 35 you can most likely get very close to the same performance as a stock 40 from your 35.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

fastwater makes a lot of sense on his assessment. but I had a boat rated for 90 hp and I run a 115 hp merc on it for many yrs with no problems. the old 90, 115, 150, hp mercs used the same motor. I think they just used a different bore and carbs. I wouldn't be afraid to run a 40 hp on a boat rated for 35 hp. but there could be legal implications if you were ever involved in an accident.
sherman


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

sherman51 said:


> fastwater makes a lot of sense on his assessment. but I had a boat rated for 90 hp and I run a 115 hp merc on it for many yrs with no problems. the old 90, 115, 150, hp mercs used the same motor. I think they just used a different bore and carbs. I wouldn't be afraid to run a 40 hp on a boat rated for 35 hp. but there could be legal implications if you were ever involved in an accident.
> sherman


I did too at one time sherman. Ran a 16' Baja rated for a 115 but had a 150 on it. Ran it mostly at Griggs cause I was friends with the Marine Park LEO's and CPD officers that patrolled that area. But I knew the risk I was taking especially with having someone else in the boat. Was young then and really didn't think about...'what could happen'. 
Here's another scenario...you buy a 40. You happen to get stopped. Maybe you get a ticket, maybe you just get a warning ticket. Whichever the case, if you are on one of your 'home' lakes that you frequent often, you can bet the next time you're on that lake and that officer sees you, they're gonna check you out. And see'in how they work districts, the same officers most likely patrols the same lakes within close vicinity to your home lakes.
Again, IMO, for 5+ HP, just to much bother.


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## musclebeach22 (Feb 15, 2012)

I appreciate all of the replies guys. That's my dilemma, I don't want to face legal repercussions , but the only body of water I fish that permits gas motors is the Cuyahoga and chagrin rivers, and occasionally mosquito lake. Which makes me think I would most likely never be checked. Because of the difficulty of finding a 30hp or 35hp, I'm faced with the decision of either a 25hp or a 40hp....


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

beaver said:


> Get a 40, spray paint the cowl camo to match the boat, and voila it's a 35 horsepower.


My thoughts exactly.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

I've been boating since 1977 and have boated from wi to fl and states in between. and I've been checked at one time or other and I've never had anyone check the motor size to the hp rating on the plate. but that's not saying they wont check me next week.
sherman


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Only place I would think your motor would be checked is on a limited hp lake. In columbus there is hoover, and bunch of guys run 15 with a 9.9 cowling. My understandin is that LE are now checking serial numbers.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Dovans said:


> Only place I would think your motor would be checked is on a limited hp lake. In columbus there is hoover, and bunch of guys run 15 with a 9.9 cowling. My understandin is that LE are now checking serial numbers.


You're correct Dovans. 
Last yr I talked to an officer at Brush Cr. In conversation, told him I fished Lake Logan as it was close to my house. He looked at me and asked me if I fished the Sat. morning bass tournaments they had there every Sat. Morning. Told him no. 
He went on to explain there have been many complaints of boats fishing that tourney using their bigger mtrs. to get to there spots. He also stated that there had been complaints about boats with smaller engines going faster then what a 9.9 could possibly take them. Said he would be checking mtr. serial numbers and that that is an area he didn't play around with. 
I further told him about a fella I helped attempting to paddle a big Ranger that his TM had quit. Thought the guy was gonna have a stroke.
Officer said in a case such as that, he would not write someone a ticket for using their big mtr. at idle to get back in. 
Thought that was pretty cool.


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## snmcc (Dec 24, 2014)

If insured I would not use a 40 unless the insurance company didn't care. If self insured I would throw a 40 on it asap! Maybe even a 50 not that much different.


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

Why not just get it evaluated by the USCG and ask them if it can be rated for a 40 HP?


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## musclebeach22 (Feb 15, 2012)

I didn't know you could do that...I'll have to look into that.


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

I live in PA and boats over a certain length (22' perhaps) didn't have capacity plates at one time. I was told that I could take it to the USCG and they could provide one. I'm assuming in your case if you explained that finding a 30 or 35 is terribly difficult these days and ask them about evaluating it for a 40, you might just get lucky.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

id do it in a heartbeat.


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## Decoy hound (Apr 3, 2015)

Alumaweld boats are all welded and will handle that extra five horsepower just fine. As far as getting a ticket for "over powering" has anyone really ever been checked for that?


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

It will handle it. If your nervouse about it you could get it inspected and most likely get it rerated for a 40hp


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## harryhunter (Jun 15, 2014)

If your boat is in good shape and rated for a 35 you shouldn t have any trouble. The main thing is make sure the transom wood is solid . there s not a big enough weight or power to make a difference.


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## Decoy hound (Apr 3, 2015)

harryhunter said:


> If your boat is in good shape and rated for a 35 you shouldn t have any trouble. The main thing is make sure the transom wood is solid . there s not a big enough weight or power to make a difference.


It's an Alumaweld, they don't use wood. I know mine has no wood anywhere.


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

Decoy hound said:


> It's an Alumaweld, they don't use wood. I know mine has no wood anywhere.


You will be fine. Put a 50 on that s.o.b and enjoy her. Cars werent made to have 1000 hp but some still do


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Heck why not...just don't call me to help pay the ticket.


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## BlueMax (Dec 3, 2006)

Misdirection said:


> Why not just get it evaluated by the USCG and ask them if it can be rated for a 40 HP?


I had to deal with the Coast Guard last year for a very tiny oil leak on a trim tab cylinder. The folks they have employed sounded like they were reading from a manual when they talked to me on the phone. I cannot imagine those youngsters, at the local CG station, would have any clue how to evaluate a boat and rate it for HP and occupants. ( not bashing the CG because they do great work. But to evaluate the HP and occupant capacity seems like a stretch to me.) At least locally and pain free to the owner.
Has anyone on here ever had the CG evaluate their boat and provide a capacity rating????


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## Nate167 (May 1, 2009)

I got inspected by CG a few years ago out of lorain. Had a 85hp on a 16ft lund that was rated for 75. When i replaced the transom wood i added either 1/2" or 3/4 angle aluminum brackets to strengthen it up. CG guy asked if motor cowl was a 75 or 85 to the other guy inspecting and both agreed it looked like a 75 wink wink. Due to what i did to beef up transom. He said make sure i get cowling painted as 75 cause next person inspecting it might not be so friendly. Was at painters the next week and never had an issue again during saftey check. 
I will say though when i get checked i pull everything out to make their job easy and quick. I think this goes a long way with how friendly they are with you


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## humpty dumpty (Nov 30, 2013)

I think fastwater is on the money with the insurance co. attorneys. Your insurance co. looks to find some reason not to pay and the other insurance company looks for reasons for you to pay... so you are up against both of them,, and they will check hp ratings.. If it is a serious incident 5 hp or 500 hp would not be worth it..tohatsu used to make a 30 hp 2 stroke that basically flew.. if you could find one of those it would be great for your boat.


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## steelneyes2 (Jul 19, 2011)

The Coast Guard will do a hull inspection by request. They are available for people who do not have a capacity plate on a boat because it has been modified, restored or home built. The manufacturers do there own capacity plates with NMMA and Coast Guard approval after submitting their drawings and specs. Depending on the year of your boat, they changed those specifications out and now many boats are allowed more horsepower by the new measuring system. Call the nearest station and speak to them and schedule an appointment. 
I can tell you from experience that Ohio Div. of Watercraft is pretty strict when it comes to titling and registrations. Whatever is on the model plate of the motor is how they determine horsepower. I have a new powerhead on my motor and they stated that power is determined by the plate on the midsection period regardless of any modifications that may have been made. 
So as far as insurance, the Coast Guard and Ohio Division of Watercraft I have no issues. 
Since it is a tiller motor, I assume you won't be looking at using anyone else for installation. Even the mention of overpowering a boat is enough to get you thrown out of any reputable shop. They face stiff fines, loss of watercraft dealer licensing and felony prosecution if they knowingly sell, modify or work on a boat that is known to be overpowered. 
Spend a few hours, ask for the inspection and abide by the rules. The spirit of the law is practical. The letter of the law could cost you a lot more than a boat motor. And for those who say just do whatever you want, I can bet they will bring a copy of this to your court case:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2002-title33-vol2/pdf/CFR-2002-title33-vol2-sec183-43.pdf


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

[QUOTE="steelneyes2, 
..... The letter of the law could cost you a lot more than a boat motor. And for those who say just do whatever you want, I can bet they will bring a copy of this to your court case:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2002-title33-vol2/pdf/CFR-2002-title33-vol2-sec183-43.pdf[/QUOTE]

.....and you can bet they will all show up with piles of $ to help with fines.


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## steelneyes2 (Jul 19, 2011)

FWIW a friend of mine did have an inspection done by the USCG. Old rating under the manufacturer was for 140 H.P. the plate was "removed" during a reconfiguration he did. When it was done he scheduled an appointment, took it to the Cleveland CG station at the scheduled time. They measured it up and ran their formula. End result was approval for a 185 HP. Cost 2 hours of his time and no future worries. Worst case, you are still in the same position that you started in. 
I didn't want to sound like a naysayer. I have worked on enough boats and motors to know that there is almost a negligible difference in 5 hp. How each company rates it's motors is enough of a variable, let alone 2 stroke, 4 stroke etc. My '95 Lund is getting a ton more power out of a fuel injected 2 stroke than an old carbed model would have. Compare a modern motor with fuel injection and the ever decreasing weight and performance wise it's not the concern. Get official approval for the "new" horsepower rating and then look for the best power to weight ratio you can afford. 

Fastwater: The fines are cheap compared to what you'd face when you lose the protection of your insurance company. I know of a guy who lost a large property and business to a fire. Problem was he'd been warned for not having a functional sprinkler system. Weeks before, his insurance was cancelled due to not correcting the situation after multiple notifications. When the building later burned, not only was it a total loss, he then faces the huge bill for a 3 alarm fire and all of the resources that the insurance company pays for on your behalf. The easy way or not worrying about what may happen often works out. Once in a while it doesn't. I bet that guy would pay quite a bit of money to have corrected the situation that could have saved everything he'd worked for.


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## PatSea (Oct 10, 2004)

Consider what the lawyers might do if you're in an accident with the boat and they discover (which they will) that you "overmotored". Same with the insurance companies.
Also, the USCG is not going to rate your boat for HP. That is done by the boat manufacturer.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

I think the OP should ask this same question over in the Marine Insurance forum here on OGF and get responses from some of the insurance agents there that know the facts. That way he can get the 'skinny' straight from the horses mouth. 
He may decide not to power his boat exceeding what it's rated for after they tell him if something happens and he's overpowered he's S.O.L. 

Some guys apparently don't realize that when they originally got insurance on there boat, it was most likely legal cause they had to give ins. company boat and mtr. info. to get ins. If rig wasn't legal from the onset, a reputable ins. company isn't going to write a policy on it. 
If boat is legal when policy is written and then the owner changes mtrs or alters the rig making it illegal but doesn't tell the ins. company about the changes, in reality, the owner is paying insurance for nothing because if there's an accident, the owner won't be covered anyway. If the replacement mtr is stolen, it won't be covered cause the serial number of stolen mtr. is different then the ser. # of the original mtr. the policy was written for. 
In short, from the time the owner alters the boat making it illegal, he/she is throwing their money away every time they make an insurance pymt. They would be much smarter not having insurance and taking that ins. pymt. money and putting it in the bank, saving it to give to somebody if an accident ever happened. God forbid its a bad accident with injuries...maybe that little bit of saved up $ will pay for lunch for the attorneys.


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## tomb (Oct 9, 2004)

BlueMax said:


> Has anyone on here ever had the CG evaluate their boat and provide a capacity rating????


Yes, had my 60's 12 foot johnboat inspected and rated in Cleveland. They were supposed to charged something around $30 for it, but didn't do so.


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm thinking they take the overall dimensions of the craft like they would when doing Documentation, and determine the weight capacity the transom can take safely at full max capacity of the craft. The weights of the motors must fall into some kind of category and not necessarily HP. Just look at the weights of the new 4 strokers, their huge. I've seen almost identical boats, same length, same width, but the transom was a 15" and the other was a 20" and the 20" had a larger max capacity and 10 more hp capability. Thats the only thing I can come up with.


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## steelneyes2 (Jul 19, 2011)

Pops, you are correct. It is all determined by a dimensional formula. The CG gets out a measuring tape, measures it up and then applies the formula. Different factors are used for transom height, hull type, and tiller vs. remote steering. The formulas are included in the link I posted above, but they are somewhat difficult to decipher and it doesn't matter what you come up with on your own. Manufacturers do determine horsepower but the OP is trying for practical reasons go over the manufacturer's plate. While the CG doesn't have any law against it, Ohio does and therefore your insurance company has a way out. 
The manufacturers and NMMA have dealt with the vast difference in weights of 2 vs 4 strokes by addressing the capacity plate. If you read it, the horsepower max is separate from the total allowable weight of "persons motor and gear" and the number of persons is always laughable. So in practice, a 200 lb 50hp motor would just increase the total allowable amount of persons and gear over a 250 lb 4 stroke. 

*Capacity Plates*
ORC 1547.39 & ORC 1547-40
No person shall operate or permit operation of a watercraft in excess of any of the stated limits on the capacity plate. When no capacity plate exists, no person shall operate or permit operation of a watercraft if a reasonably prudent person would believe the total load aboard or the total horsepower of any motor or engine presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property.

No person shall alter, remove, or deface any information on the capacity plate.


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## hatteras1 (Jan 18, 2011)

Years ago, we snuck my little boat on a limited hp lake. The motor was too big for the boat. We made fake stickers to cover the originals. The only problem was we had to idle it. If we ran above idle, we were the only boat with the transom digging in and the bow 3 feet in the air. it was a dead giveaway something wasn't right.


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