# Watch who you support



## Bonecrusher (Aug 7, 2010)

A Nation wide group called Gun Rights Across America scheduled a bunch of Starbucks appreciation days. During those days customer showed up with some pretty fancy hardware. 

Starbucks has since asked that these demonstrations stop. This group is taking this out of context and asking that supporters Boycott Starbucks.

Starbucks has said that they will not refuse service to anyone carrying open or concealed. 

I personally don't care for Starbucks and don't go, I do care about gun rights. 

The way some of these groups (one individual) are doing more harm than good. Please do some research if you support any group like this. 

Dividing the already divided leave us standing alone. 


I would post the letter from Starbucks but the traffic has crashed the site.


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## Bonecrusher (Aug 7, 2010)

An Open Letter from Howard Schultz, ceo of Starbucks Coffee Company 











Tuesday, September 17, 2013

Posted by Howard Schultz, Starbucks chairman, president and chief executive officer 

Dear Fellow Americans,

Few topics in America generate a more polarized and emotional debate than guns. In recent months, Starbucks stores and our partners (employees) who work in our stores have been thrust unwillingly into the middle of this debate. That&#8217;s why I am writing today with a respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas.

From the beginning, our vision at Starbucks has been to create a &#8220;third place&#8221; between home and work where people can come together to enjoy the peace and pleasure of coffee and community. Our values have always centered on building community rather than dividing people, and our stores exist to give every customer a safe and comfortable respite from the concerns of daily life.

We appreciate that there is a highly sensitive balance of rights and responsibilities surrounding America&#8217;s gun laws, and we recognize the deep passion for and against the &#8220;open carry&#8221; laws adopted by many states. (In the United States, &#8220;open carry&#8221; is the term used for openly carrying a firearm in public.) For years we have listened carefully to input from our customers, partners, community leaders and voices on both sides of this complicated, highly charged issue.

Our company&#8217;s longstanding approach to &#8220;open carry&#8221; has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws don&#8217;t exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement&#8212;not by Starbucks and our store partners.

Recently, however, we&#8217;ve seen the &#8220;open carry&#8221; debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called &#8220;Starbucks Appreciation Days&#8221; that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of &#8220;open carry.&#8221; To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas&#8212;even in states where &#8220;open carry&#8221; is permitted&#8212;unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request&#8212;and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose &#8220;open carry,&#8221; we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion &#8220;open carry,&#8221; please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers.

I am proud of our country and our heritage of civil discourse and debate. It is in this spirit that we make today&#8217;s request. Whatever your view, I encourage you to be responsible and respectful of each other as citizens and neighbors.

Sincerely,

Howard Schultz


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## T-180 (Oct 18, 2005)

Wow, a very well thought out & presented letter. Wish more companies would have similar views, that is, that the debate needs to be in the legislative arena. I'm not a Starbucks guy at all, but I respect what he did.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

Never been there, never will. I heard coffee is $4 a cup there. If he wants everyone to be comfortable in his stores he needs to make some changes, who could relax in a place like that. Some guns around would make me feel better.


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## T-180 (Oct 18, 2005)

Agreed on the coffee, I've never seen a cup of joe worth that much. The only time I've had their coffee was when I was traveling on an expense account & there was no option, but them.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

I really shouldn't poke fun at the issue. I was reading last night about some of these groups and what their agendas are. I personally support the NRA, I doubt that I will support any other group. I think that any money sent to the NRA is well directed towards a common interest.


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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

just another anti gunning company that will never get my business again. my theory on the whole thing: 

He refereed to "open carry" several times in his letter, but i think he is referring to any type of carry as open carry, as he clearly asks for his customers to not carry-period. Which wouldn't surprise me, as he is an anti-gunner and doesn't know the first thing about carrying a firearm. The only reason they are not putting up CPZ signs is because he is so afraid of guns and those who carry that he fears if he employees had to enforce such a sign, they would have to confront the evil bad guys who carry. Read between the lines here. This is just a business that is SO anti gun they they are afraid to even post a sign out of fear of confrontation with those who carry. 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions here, but this is what i took away from the letter. I will never be shopping at Starbucks again.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

monsterKAT11 said:


> just another anti gunning company that will never get my business again. my theory on the whole thing:
> 
> He refereed to "open carry" several times in his letter, but i think he is referring to any type of carry as open carry, as he clearly asks for his customers to not carry-period. Which wouldn't surprise me, as he is an anti-gunner and doesn't know the first thing about carrying a firearm. The only reason they are not putting up CPZ signs is because he is so afraid of guns and those who carry that he fears if he employees had to enforce such a sign, they would have to confront the evil bad guys who carry. Read between the lines here. This is just a business that is SO anti gun they they are afraid to even post a sign out of fear of confrontation with those who carry.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their own opinions here, but this is what i took away from the letter. I will never be shopping at Starbucks again.


Did you really read his letter. I couldn't disagree with you more.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

bobk said:


> Did you really read his letter. I couldn't disagree with you more.


Yeah, same here. I thought it was actually a pretty well written "do what you've got to do, but please don't throw my people in the middle of it" statement. Never once has he mentioned anything about being anti-gun...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

monsterKAT11 said:


> just another anti gunning company that will never get my business again. my theory on the whole thing:
> 
> He refereed to "open carry" several times in his letter, but i think he is referring to any type of carry as open carry, as he clearly asks for his customers to not carry-period. Which wouldn't surprise me, as he is an anti-gunner and doesn't know the first thing about carrying a firearm. The only reason they are not putting up CPZ signs is because he is so afraid of guns and those who carry that he fears if he employees had to enforce such a sign, they would have to confront the evil bad guys who carry. Read between the lines here. This is just a business that is SO anti gun they they are afraid to even post a sign out of fear of confrontation with those who carry.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their own opinions here, but this is what i took away from the letter. I will never be shopping at Starbucks again.


Did you really read his letter or interpret it to suit your post? Suggest a refresher course in reading.


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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

yes i read his letter, many times actually. I read the part about how people are using the shops for a purpose they don't want to get in the middle of. For a company to publicly ask it's customers to not carry on their property is unacceptable for me as a consumer, and should be for all who are passionate about carrying a firearm for their own or family protection. He plainly writes out that one of the ONLY reasons they do not put up CPZ signs is so their employee do not have to confront those who may be carrying a firearm. how can you guys not see that? The only purpose of this letter was to ask you TO NOT CARRY ON THEIR PROPERTY.


"a respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas."


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## Nikster (Mar 14, 2007)

Starbucks, sucks! $ 4.50 for a cup of joe?

Some people have way toooooooo much $$$$$$ 

Mickey-D's a buck. Coffee is decent & consistent, & HOT. Dunkin a bit more $ & a tad better.

NIK,


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Well you need to read it one more time real slow. It is a request that was brought on by a group that went over board in his stores. He also clearly describes what open carry is and it's not conceal carry. Do what ever you want it's a free country for now. He never once said he is anti-gun. I actually get the feeling he is pro gun from his very well written letter. You are going to be in the minority on this one. From your posts it seems like you just want a reason to be mad.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Any person or group that blatantly assembles in a place to push and flaunt their beliefs, regardless of the cause, is a detriment to the actual cause. These guys weren't doing it to support the second amendment. They were doing it to stir a fight. And it's a fight the owner doesn't want in the middle of....

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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

Bad Bub said:


> Any person or group that blatantly assembles in a place to push and flaunt their beliefs, regardless of the cause, is a detriment to the actual cause. These guys weren't doing it to support the second amendment. They were doing it to stir a fight. And it's a fight the owner doesn't want in the middle of....
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app



I can agree with this!


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## Bonecrusher (Aug 7, 2010)

Bad Bub said:


> Any person or group that blatantly assembles in a place to push and flaunt their beliefs, regardless of the cause, is a detriment to the actual cause. These guys weren't doing it to support the second amendment. They were doing it to stir a fight. And it's a fight the owner doesn't want in the middle of....
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Those are the words I was looking for. I will still go to Starbucks (When I feel like taking out a loan for coffee) and I will still carry my gun. I won't have to disarm and the barista will never know I am carrying. The way it should be.


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## WalleyeWiz (Jun 18, 2004)

Wow 4.00 where you guys live ?? 2.00 here in Toledo for a large with cream and sugar and very tasty compared to Mc Donalds lol . I respect their wishes as I believe many people went over board there . Im all for OC and CC but could never force my beliefs down a business throat .

Dwayne


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## Blue Pike (Apr 24, 2004)

The most sensible view of Starbucks new course of action that I have seen.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Blue Pike said:


> The most sensible view of Starbucks new course of action that I have seen.
> 
> Starbucks No Gun Policy - YouTube


Makes alot of sense. Wish more people had his common sense.


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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

That was a great video, after taking a step back from my initial thoughts, I still agree that it's wrong that they have asked their customers not to carry, and let me clarify that YES they have asked their customers not to carry in their stores PERIOD. however, I can sympathize with their reasoning a little more after reading some more on their history and watching that video. In their situation their statement was probably the best option they had to stay as neutral as possible. and I respect and support private property, realizing they could just ban them all together.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I&#8217;ve always understood the owner of Starbucks to be quite pro-gun. Though the statement is worded to seem like he&#8217;s asking for no carrying, I thought it seemed clear that he meant no open carry in reaction to these groups. I don&#8217;t think he intended to include concealed carry, he just happened to omit a word. Really, I wish more companies had the same attitude.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> Wow 4.00 where you guys live ?? 2.00 here in Toledo for a large with cream and sugar and very tasty compared to Mc Donalds lol


 
No such thing as large coffee at Starbucks. It's called a "grande", venti or a trenta.

And no I don't go there or anywhere for coffee. I make my own at home.


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## OrangeMilk (Oct 13, 2012)

Ok, two things here.

I typicaly get coffe at home or at work and somtimes got to Starbucks when my girlfriend demands it.

Starbacks has it's own company policy to by 10%( I thnk thats the numbe) of it's coffee beans from small coffee farms, less than 50 acre farms, so they keepsmall farmers in business even if it costs more. THey also compost and recycle everything they possibly can in there stores, they have people sift the trash for said items.

Second, he didn't say he hates guns, he said don't get his people in the middleof this.

I am all for gun rigts and support the NRA, now if the NRA showed up on my lawn to protest for gun rights, guess what? I'm going to tell them to go do it somewhere else. There is a time and place for everything, and Starbucks is not the place to do it. Just like my lawn is not, come by and I'll gldly give you a beer and slap an NRA sticker on your car, but don't hang out and "demonstrate"

Yes, people were not "demonstrating" at starbucks, by they were hauling starbucks into the issue for no reason.


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## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)




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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Personally had their coffee 3 times. Don't like it. Also the smell of burnt coffee in all three places would have ruined me drinking a good cup. So this don't affect me. My self I most times have my carry. Exceptions federal buildings and schools. No one knows since I don't print, brag or show mine in any way. What they don't know wont hurt them. And if by some strange reason I need to shoot I will. And ill take my punishment. That's how C C should work. But to many get it to look cool or tough. Now I just told you how every one I know does. If the though a person may have a gun. You better stay home. Because a lot do. Just be thankful there are some good people with them too. And I agree Starbucks took the high road.

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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

MLAROSA said:


> Starbucks No Gun Policy Response - YouTube


Yeah I thought it was strange everyone here backing their decision. I didn't see that one coming at all. I was labeled "Anti" for a lot less.  And I'll have you know, I've since been working very hard to restore my tarnished reputation!


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## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> And I'll have you know, I've since been working very hard to restore my tarnished reputation!


Keep it up, maybe you'll change some minds...


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Can't totally say i back their decision. But you need to remember a persons opinion on isn't the same as a business. A business can loose lots of many taking sides. When one did as Starbucks they are straddling the line. First they ask you not to bring pleasing the anti's Then say it's not a ban pleasing the C.C's. So in reality its still open carry. And if a person carry's the right way know one will know or be upset. Something all gun carriers should worry about. Kind of dumb printing or showing or even bragging. First instills fear in some. Causes some not to come. And a big reason is if some one would use a gun to kill where you need yours. Good chance your the first target and probably back shot! So what good is that fancy scary gun of your then?
Oh and I am Pro Gun and have C.C. since it started. And also years before. This law just protects us who carry and don't use it unless needed. Had guns since 9 years old family's always had guns. And never one accident. Guns don't kill people do. And you could never remove them from the hands of those.


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## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)

viper1 said:


> And a big reason is if some one would use a gun to kill where you need yours. Good chance your the first target and probably back shot! So what good is that fancy scary gun of your then?


Since there is a "Good chance" people who open carry are the first target, I assume it would be no problem at all to ask you to cite some incidents where this "myth" has occurred.

Thank you, in advance.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

MLAROSA said:


> Since there is a "Good chance" people who open carry are the first target, I assume it would be no problem at all to ask you to cite some incidents where this "myth" has occurred.
> 
> Thank you, in advance.



Don't have any to share. As i said a good chance. Let's put it this way. If you was in a room of people. With full intention of shooting all you could. Do you really believe You wouldn't take out the gun man first? Guess i assumed it was common sense. But considering the people today I can understand your confusion. Some might not. But i still think the odds was in favor of my comment.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

MLAROSA said:


> Since there is a "Good chance" people who open carry are the first target, I assume it would be no problem at all to ask you to cite some incidents where this "myth" has occurred.
> 
> Thank you, in advance.



But curious why you could say it was a myth! Do you know of a study that proves that?


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Doesn't matter. Thread has gotten off topic. Please get back to the original topic. Thank you.

Sent from my EVO 3D via Ohub Campfire


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## MLAROSA (May 20, 2004)

viper1 said:


> But curious why you could say it was a myth! Do you know of a study that proves that?


The real world says it's a Myth, since you can not cite a single source to your claim let alone a lot of them since you believe the odds favor your comment.

To your previous post, I would think it was common sense that criminals want to take the path of least resistance. In other words it's common sense that criminals want easy targets not armed targets who are willing to put up a fight.



KaGee said:


> Doesn't matter. Thread has gotten off topic. Please get back to the original topic. Thank you.
> 
> Sent from my EVO 3D via Ohub Campfire


Sorry Boss, I thought we were discussing open carry and the groups that support it.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

The thread starter was specifically regarding a group who flaunted OC at a Starbucks and the franchises response.

The discussion has drifted from that.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Sorry KaGee I didn't see it specified and figured it was CC.


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