# Opinions on deer drives???



## Lewis

Without stirring up a controversy, I would like to hear some opinions on deer drives. In my view I wish they were not permitted in Ohio. Deer drives are illegal in several states.
I guess being a bowhunter for so long might have slanted my view, although I still gun hunt if I haven't bagged my buck in bow season. You know, man against the deer while it is on it's normal patterns is my kind of hunting.
Over the years I have witnessed some terrible behavior by those driving deer. Recently I just witnessed several truck loads of guys pulling up to an area pushing everything. Using the spray and pray method on animals running wide open, blowing off who knows what body parts. Party hunting which means, if it's brown it's down and we'll sort out who tags what later.
Sadly, this seems to be becoming a lot more common. I could live with a well done 3 or 4 man drive, but I've seen drives with 20 or more guys. Seems more like an extermination squad rather than hunting.
Don't hit me too hard! hahaha
Lets discuss........


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## Gotworms

Any more than for or five people you really know is to much for me. I may be a bit on cautious side I don't really know 15 guys I trust with a gun just my opinion guys not looking to get scolded over this.


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## caseyroo

I'm in total agreement with you Lewis based on a few reasons. One the safety aspect for those involved is a major concern. Im not fond of slugs and bullets flying past my head. As a bow hunter, I find that type "hunting" is truly what the sport is about. Yes I gun hunt, but I enjoy my time, and the challenge of bow season much better. There is a much greater reward of a successful hunt. Lastly, the type of shot on a running deer is obviously not a high percentage one. How many deer are fatally wounded and never found, or compromised by these Hail Mary shots? I'm fortunate to hunt private property that has a nice population, but I have seen the herd decline because of poor choices on adjoining properties. In the last two years alone, I know of 5 bucks that were wounded and never recovered because of running shots during drives. At the end the day that is a tragic waste. Just because your gun can shoot 200 yards, doesn't mean it's advisable! Same can be said for those trying to lead a deer moving at any range.


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## Rip n rap

Use to be we would sit and hunt all week long then come the weekend a few of us would go out and try and kick something up,,but the first hour of daylight on Monday I had about 15guys pushing the little thicket I was in and even throwing logs and rocks trying to scare something up..then again on Tuesday but this time had a slug sizzle past me and about **** myself. Its truly a sound you never forget.. So needless to say im not for the death squads


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## 9Left

i like hunting solo also guys...i enjoy scouting out my spot and then hunting it.

I'll tell ya what i cant stand, and thats Amish drivers, 15 or 20 of 'em, stomping and yelling right beneath me, they didn't seem to care one bit that i was already hunting that spot.. and i could see them as they pulled off the road to start the drive... so i KNOW they could see me before they started...personally, I think they are the most disrespectful people in the woods


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## Seaturd

If deer drives were banned I wouldn't complain. I think it would be difficult to enforce it though. I generally hunt from the ground during gun season using a combination of natural blinds and still hunting. It works for me.


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## garhtr

I've been on and around thousands of deer drives and have never been in fear of my safety or my hunting companions well being. Done correctly drivers rarely make deer run, in fact we refer to drives as a "push". The object of a drive is to move deer in a strategic manner not run them in every direction.
I've shot many deer as a driver and stander, some of which were nibbling browse.
I'm certain some drives are "cluster flops" but how many "hail mary"shots are taken by guys still hunting, stand hunting or just exiting the woods ? A good safe shot is just that, a good safe shot, regardless the method of hunting.


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## UNCLEMIKE

With the numbers so low on many public areas I would love to see this banned on public lands. Do what you want on private, up to the land owners.


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## Seaturd

garhtr - your group is an exception in my experience. Most of the deer drives I've witnessed had deer running wide open and lead flying in dangerous directions. And you're right on the good safe shot.


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## bare naked

garhtr said:


> I've been on and around thousands of deer drives and have never been in fear of my safety or my hunting companions well being. Done correctly drivers rarely make deer run, in fact we refer to drives as a "push". The object of a drive is to move deer in a strategic manner not run them in every direction.
> I've shot many deer as a driver and stander, some of which were nibbling browse.
> I'm certain some drives are "cluster flops" but how many "hail mary"shots are taken by guys still hunting, stand hunting or just exiting the woods ? A good safe shot is just that, a good safe shot, regardless the method of hunting.


X2


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## caseyroo

garhtr said:


> I've been on and around thousands of deer drives and have never been in fear of my safety or my hunting companions well being. Done correctly drivers rarely make deer run, in fact we refer to drives as a "push". The object of a drive is to move deer in a strategic manner not run them in every direction.
> I've shot many deer as a driver and stander, some of which were nibbling browse.
> I'm certain some drives are "cluster flops" but how many "hail mary"shots are taken by guys still hunting, stand hunting or just exiting the woods ? A good safe shot is just that, a good safe shot, regardless the method of hunting.[/QUOTE
> Yes Hail Mary shots do occur by both drive hunting, and still hunting. That's what I was implying. However, fair, or not I associate that tactic with desperation, and those lacking skills to successfully outwit their prey. I'm sorry if that falls under profiling, but it's my opinion. There are those that enjoy hunting, and those that have to kill. For me, part of the experience is sitting still, and watching all the other wildlife that is present, and taking it all in. I'd much rather watch a buck tend a scrape and not get a shot, than have a deer come bounding past me snorting, and tails up. Again, just my preference.


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## Flathead76

My only issue with it is that many deer get gut shot and run off to die somewhere else. Many slob hunters will assume that they missed if the deer did not fall when they shot.


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## garhtr

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/portals/wildlife/pdfs/publications/hunting/Pub%205203_2014.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwip-I7k_dvQAhVLy1QKHSuFA7YQFggfMAI&usg=AFQjCNGUwIYpNdCypvJS4TZ86omLR_QslA&sig2=i9bKlfa_x29cXqI3LHgUzA
Above is a link to the accident and injury report for Ohio 2014 I was unable to find 2015. I'm amazed every time I look at these reports.Hunting remains one of the safest outdoor activities around, it's very safe despite the horror stories we often hear, Drivers, stand- hunters and still-hunters are all doing a pretty good job.
Keep it safe and Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## DJA

I kind of agree, I could live with such a rule. What has ruined Deer hunting even more is 4 wheelers and Baiting
What a shame that so many hunters success is linked to the size of a Bait pile and riding around on ATVs
That's just my opinion


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## garhtr

Flathead76 said:


> My only issue with it is that many deer get gut shot and run off to die somewhere else. Many slob hunters will assume that they missed if the deer did not fall when they shot.


I see absolutely no difference between a deer gut shot from a tree stand or from a still- hunter and a deer gut shot from someone participating in a deer drive, it's a bad situation and every effort should taken to recover the animal. I have never seen any evidence that more or less deer are crippled or gut shot by hunters participating in deer drives. Every form of deer hunting can be done in an inappropriate manner, I'm certain every season stand hunters (Bow and Gun)shoot at deer that are at extreme range or running and some are probably wounded and often unrecoverable but I've never heard of a rally to ban hunting from deer stands-but I'm all for it. It's my guess we are just less likely to see the dumb stuff done by( some) stand hunters.
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## Lundy

garhtr said:


> I have never seen any evidence that more or less deer are crippled or gut shot by hunters participating in deer drives.


I realize that drives are legal and that there are some percentage of drive participants that might even do it ethically but I am opposed to the vast majority of drives and drive participants.To the majority that I have witnessed and talked to over the years it is simple analysis, those that can hunt do, those that can't drive.

There is zero doubt in my mind, based upon over 40 years of deer hunting in Ohio and personally witnessing deer drives and the aftermath that more deer are wounded on deer drives than are wounded by stand hunting during the gun seasons.

I really don't need a statistical spreadsheet to come to that very safe conclusion. I only need my eyes and ears. Whether you want to call the activity a drive or a push, they still result in a high percentage of the shot opportunities being at moving targets. A large percentage of hunters have difficulty hitting a stationary target, add in movement and the accuracy index would drop like a rock. Just where does a hunter go to practice hitting a moving target? garhtr, where do you practice shoots at moving targets?

I have voiced my opinion for years that deer drives should be limited to no more than 5 people on private land and not permitted on public land at all. I would take it step further and allow only single shot guns, or just one in the chamber, for all deer gun season, but I know that will never happen.

The deer archery harvest is now higher than the gun week harvest. The ODNR doesn't need a high kill during the gun season as the primary population control method any longer. Drives have outlived their usefulness and are a significant player in the wanton waste of deer through wounded and lost animals in areas with high drive activity. 

This is only discussing gun hunting. The apparent archery wound to harvest ratio is very disheartening.

MY OPINION


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## Flathead76

garhtr said:


> I see absolutely no difference between a deer gut shot from a tree stand or from a still- hunter and a deer gut shot from someone participating in a deer drive, it's a bad situation and every effort should taken to recover the animal. I have never seen any evidence that more or less deer are crippled or gut shot by hunters participating in deer drives. Every form of deer hunting can be done in an inappropriate manner, I'm certain every season stand hunters (Bow and Gun)shoot at deer that are at extreme range or running and some are probably wounded and often unrecoverable but I've never heard of a rally to ban hunting from deer stands-but I'm all for it. It's my guess we are just less likely to see the dumb stuff done by( some) stand hunters.
> Good luck and Good Hunting !


Most deer on drives are moving. I will not shoot at a deer that does not have all four feet on the ground. If I don't feel like I have a very good chance of killing the animal with one shot I pass on the shot. It's been over 10 years since I have lost a deer that I have shot. If you hunt long enough a less than desirable shot will happen. The last time that I drove up to Michigan to hunt I only took three shells for the two tags that I had. Came home with two deer and one shell. You will not hear of gun hunters who do drives only taking three shells when going out hunting.


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## garhtr

Lundy said:


> Just where does a hunter go to practice hitting a moving target? garhtr, where do you practice shoots at moving targets


 I've never had any need to practice at shooting moving targets nor do I plan on doing so. I nor do the hunters I hunt with shoot at running deer and we have never found the need to . 
It's seems to me that driving deer properly is a much tougher method of hunting than merely sitting in a tree and waiting for a deer to walk into range and requires a greater degree of woodsman-ship , much like ( IMO) still-hunting does. Driving deer properly is not about walking through the Forrest and making deer run in every direction, it's about moving deer strategically to a location of the hunters choosing , often a location the deer would prefer not to go and it's harder than inexperienced hunters often could imagine.
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## ezbite

i dont like them at all, especially at 8am opening morning by the roundhat kids without a shread of hunter orange on. happened to me twice out a mosquito public land and i no longer hunt that area just because of this.


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## idontknow316

I've never liked deer drives personally. I've never knocked how someone else hunts. BUT, recently I joined a few Facebook groups and a guy posted these pictures of a buck he shot. Good Lord, that poor deer has been through hell! I'm willing to bet he was a victim of spray and pray hunting. I know a few of my buddies that have shot deer that were in a similar situation. Check this out, I think it's bullshit. Excuse my language.


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## idontknow316

Twice in the legs and once in the back.


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## Snook

I'm personally not a fan of deer drives. Especially on public land. Pushing all the deer off the public ground screws the average guy/gal that has nowhere else to hunt. I don't think any hunter would like to climb in a stand knowing 15 guys just pushed out the whole block?
How people want to hunt on private ground is their business although I prefer they were illegal. Here in Ashtabula Co. deer drives are hard on the herd. I've seen party's as high as 20+ people. Multiple groups of people organizing drives on any given day. You wonder how a deer could survive in some areas!


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## cb55

. All of these deer came on a drive we did Saturday. I have been hunting with the same 10 to 12 guys for the past 15 years we hunt private land. Deer drives or more then just killing deer to me it's a social event you get to see Friends and family that you have not seen all year. Eat good food and have some great laughs. Sitting in the woods day after day by yourself all of bow the first five days of gun can get monotonous old.


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## Lundy

cb55, how many of those would your group have taken on Saturday had you not used drives?


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## garhtr

cb55 said:


> View attachment 224891
> . All of these deer came on a drive we did Saturday. I have been hunting with the same 10 to 12 guys for the past 15 years we hunt private land. Deer drives or more then just killing deer to me it's a social event you get to see Friends and family that you have not seen all year. Eat good food and have some great laughs. Sitting in the woods day after day by yourself all of bow the first five days of gun can get monotonous old.


 Looks like another glaring example of trespassing , drunken revelry and spray and pray shooting ! 
Nice job, I love it when a "plan" comes together like that. The camaraderie is a big part of deer drives, mostly family for me, sadly my father and favorite uncle are no longer physically with us but the information, wisdom, and respect of the outdoors continued on.
Good luck and Good Hunting


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## Whaler

I prefer hunting natural movement and mainly with archery equipment. I hunt with gun too but again with natural movement.


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## Lewis

I didn't participate in gun season at all this year since I took my buck with a bow.
I spent a lot of time keeping an eye on my property for trespassers as well as taking a few cruises along some county roads near my property.

During one of these county road cruises I saw 2 crew cab pickups with 6 guys in each cab and another 6 to 8 guys riding in each truck bed pull into a property that joins mine. It's probably a safe bet that they are doing this to multiple properties.
This particular property just sold and I know they don't have permission to be there.

Well, a half hour later all hell broke loose. I must of heard 35 shots. Many of them rapid fire unloading of their guns. I just shook my head and thought, how the hell can that be called hunting?
To me, not all, but some of these drives smacks of selfish he man bulls$it, getting a deer no matter how, game hogging and shows no respect for the resource.

I feel so fortunate to have my own place to hunt, but I feel absolutely terrible for the hunters who are forced to hunt marginal public land and then have to deal with deer drives.
I spend hundreds of dollars a year on supplemental feed and lots of time creating habitat to hold deer on my property. This saves quite a few from the orange army.

I guess I'm not totally opposed to a small, well orchestrated drive, but to those who do participate in drives, there are many, many instances of extermination squads giving hunters a bad reputation.

As far as camaraderie goes, I can appreciate that. I have participated in many Ohio gun seasons.
We all had a great time over dinner, around a campfire or back at our campers in the evening sharing stories of failure and success, but we all hunted solo.


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## idontknow316

Lewis said:


> I didn't participate in gun season at all this year since I took my buck with a bow.
> I spent a lot of time keeping an eye on my property for trespassers as well as taking a few cruises along some county roads near my property.
> 
> During one of these county road cruises I saw 2 crew cab pickups with 6 guys in each cab and another 6 to 8 guys riding in each truck bed pull into a property that joins mine. It's probably a safe bet that they are doing this to multiple properties.
> This particular property just sold and I know they don't have permission to be there.
> 
> Well, a half hour later all hell broke loose. I must of heard 35 shots. Many of them rapid fire unloading of their guns. I just shook my head and thought, how the hell can that be called hunting?
> To me, not all, but some of these drives smacks of selfish he man bulls$it, getting a deer no matter how, game hogging and shows no respect for the resource.
> 
> I feel so fortunate to have my own place to hunt, but I feel absolutely terrible for the hunters who are forced to hunt marginal public land and then have to deal with deer drives.
> I spend hundreds of dollars a year on supplemental feed and lots of time creating habitat to hold deer on my property. This saves quite a few from the orange army.
> 
> I guess I'm not totally opposed to a small, well orchestrated drive, but to those who do participate in drives, there are many, many instances of extermination squads giving hunters a bad reputation.
> 
> As far as camaraderie goes, I can appreciate that. I have participated in many Ohio gun seasons.
> We all had a great time over dinner, around a campfire or back at our campers in the evening sharing stories of failure and success, but we all hunted solo.


Outside of taking my kids from time to time, I enjoy hunting alone. To each his own.


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## beaver

I guess it depends on why you're there. I'm a solo bow hunting type usually, but honestly the past few years I've been burned out on deer. This year my freezer was all but empty of wild game so I decided that one had to get a deer or two. I took my son and ended up getting a fat doe Saturday afternoon, but I would have participated in a drive or two Sunday if we hadn't have succeeded. Hell, if it wasnt illegal I'd have been ok shooting one from the truck this year. This year it was about having deer meat, not deer hunting for me. Deer hunting just doesn't excite me a bit anymore, but deer meat does. For some people, it's like that every year. They want to kill a deer or two for the freezer, and they don't care so much about the experience. One of the most efficient ways to do that legally is with deer drives during the gun season. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as they know the lines.


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## Northern Reb

I am opposed to the drives, but do appreciate the comradery aspect of it. 

I would feel better about them if they were limited to only 5 members and only on private land.


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## jmyers8

My question for everyone out gun hunting this past week. How many deer did you shoot at in there natural patterns. Most deer seen/shot are done so from being shot, jumped, or driven, from other groups properties and people. This is really no different then a deer drive but in a less Co trolled manner. My family has done deer drives yearly as long as I have hunted and like previously posted done correctly the deer are hardly ever running and if they are you should have common sense not to shoot. I've also witnessed the line for guys going through and shooting bullets over my head, I've never been a fan of that.


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## beaver

I only hunted Saturday and only saw two deer. Both were does and both were coming to feed around 4:00pm like it was any other day. Surprised me really. I was on private property, but it was obvious that I have had trespassers during the week and it's surrounded by state ground.


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## Shad Rap

idontknow316 said:


> I've never liked deer drives personally. I've never knocked how someone else hunts. BUT, recently I joined a few Facebook groups and a guy posted these pictures of a buck he shot. Good Lord, that poor deer has been through hell! I'm willing to bet he was a victim of spray and pray hunting. I know a few of my buddies that have shot deer that were in a similar situation. Check this out, I think it's bullshit. Excuse my language.


Almost looks as though it got stuck in a barbed wire fence or something.


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## fastwater

We learned to drive as kids back in the late 60's. Back then, most of the time that's the only way you were gonna see a deer. And this was always done on private land. Big farms of 100+acres. 
Never believed in drives on public land. Dad always taught us that we wouldn't want to be stand hunting on public land ourselves and have a drive come over top of us...wouldn't want to do the same to someone else.
But over the years, I have hunted public land having this very thing happen to me. Doesn't feel very good knowing that the rest of my day is going to be spent sitting in a woods that a group of morons just went through raising a million $'s worth of racket blowing every deer in the county into the next.
Yet another reason I never hunt public land anymore.

Our style of driving back then was more of a very controlled 'still hunt' in which the drivers slowly and quietly moved through the woods,thickets within eye sight in line taking 20-30 steps then stopping. Starting again in unison pushing deer slowly. It was not what many do today when thinking of deer drives. Like many here, I've watched guys calling themselves 'driving deer' ,crashing through the woods, hollering back and forth only to blow those deer that are running wide open past those posted up and those posted up empting their guns with as much of a chance of a clean kill shot as I have of flying an airplane. To me, that's 'slob hunting ' in the 1st degree. It's no wonder people have a bad outlook on driving deer today. And yes, the Amish I've seen are very bad for that. 

I haven't been involved in a deer drive in probably 25-30yrs. Since the deer population had increased, just never felt the need to do any. I'd rather scout an area, stay on stand and take my deer today. Actually, I'd rather take mine during bow season than any gun season. 

With that being said, I've also witnessed guys stand hunting that if a deer gets within sight, can't help but empty their gun at the deer. Shooting so fast that it's humanly impossible to be shooting accurate. Sometimes I think there's a hidden law somewhere that states if you pull the trigger once, you have to pull it till the gun is empty.
Someone posted earlier about the chances of shooting a deer on stand during gun season that wasn't running anyway. FWIW, it's possible! Shot the one I shot Wed. doing just that. Don't think I've ever shot at a running deer in almost 50yrs of hunting. Don't believe in it. 

IMO, if the deer population continues to decrease at the rate it has over the last 4-5 yrs., most likely whether we like deer drives or not, deer drives will be on the increase.


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## fishforfun

I use to gun hunt Ashtabula until people started driving the area I hunt. There would be truck load of guys surround the whole woods and push every thing out. I would see does and bucks go flying by me and then it sounded like a war. They would post people on the roads and they would be standing in the truck bed. They didn't have permission to drive any of the property they pushed. I haven't been back since and it still goes on that was 10 yrs ago. Then I would just bow hunt the area until the dam Amish came in and killed everything.


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## Lundy

jmyers8 said:


> My question for everyone out gun hunting this past week. How many deer did you shoot at in there natural patterns.


All of them


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## pkent

first 2 days of gun, no deer drive's.that would give a hunter some time to hunt a area .Its a bummer when you put time in a spot for opening morning,your all set up to hunt and at daylight a big line of guys drive all the deer out of the area.many times i've had doe's aroud me,and I had to chase them off when I seen or heard drivers coming.If not gun maybe muzzle season.If they would do that, I would hunt only those days.


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## idontknow316

I didn't shoot, but seen deer all 3 days that I hunted. In the field feeding like they always are. Nothing out of the norm. Very little pressure on them. I'm very thankful.


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## baitguy

idontknow316 said:


> I've never liked deer drives personally. I've never knocked how someone else hunts. BUT, recently I joined a few Facebook groups and a guy posted these pictures of a buck he shot. Good Lord, that poor deer has been through hell! I'm willing to bet he was a victim of spray and pray hunting. I know a few of my buddies that have shot deer that were in a similar situation. Check this out, I think it's bullshit. Excuse my language.


Some of that could, I say could, have been from the deer running wildly thru hill and dale after it was shot, they can go quite a distance ... or it could be what you said ... I quit hunting years ago, especially in the public areas, when it seemed like every time I was out it was seeming like Dodge City  saw a Pheasant get blasted by at least 5-6 guys once, it took off and it sounded like the battle of the Bulge there were so many shotguns going off, that thing had to be so full of lead it couldn't fly if it was alive  like has been previously mentioned, I'm not real comfortable being around some of those cowboys ... 

the Amish are brutally efficient for anything they're after ... they'll clean out a pond or small lake in short order, they're not in it for the sport, they're there for 1 thing ... to eat


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## idontknow316

I live up north, are the Amish really that bad? I've heard a lot of bad things.


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## fastwater

idontknow316 said:


> I live up north, are the Amish really that bad? I've heard a lot of bad things.


Yes they are. One of the worse things about them is they don't know how to read 'NO TRESSPASSING' signs. They absolutely do not care about property lines.


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## beaver

Or bag limits, or legal hunting calibers, or personal hygiene, or family trees that branch....


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## fastwater

beaver said:


> Or bag limits, or legal hunting calibers, or personal hygiene, or family trees that branch....


Hehehe!


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## Flathead76

idontknow316 said:


> I live up north, are the Amish really that bad? I've heard a lot of bad things.


That would be enough for a new thread. It would get locked up with a quickness.


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## one3

9Left said:


> i like hunting solo also guys...i enjoy scouting out my spot and then hunting it.
> 
> I'll tell ya what i cant stand, and thats Amish drivers, 15 or 20 of 'em, stomping and yelling right beneath me, they didn't seem to care one bit that i was already hunting that spot.. and i could see them as they pulled off the road to start the drive... so i KNOW they could see me before they started...personally, I think they are the most disrespectful people in the woods


I agree with you


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## My Demeyes

I used to hunt with a group that did deer drives from daylight to dark every day of shotgun season. We averaged over 50 deer during that week. This was extremely organized, down to the routes each guy would walk, exactly where the sitters were posted, along with a huge list of do' and don'ts. The guys knew every property very well, along with who else had permission to hunt it. The others got a phone call the night before to advise them we were driving that property the next day. Many big bucks have been killed by hunters not participating in the drive, but knew they should be in their stand when we do the drive. We even drove out a large section of state property that was a trapping only area, we didn't carry guns. This was discussed with the game warden prior to the drive. We were trying to get the deer to the hunting area of the property. Not a single deer crossed the line, and we had over 30 deer running around us in there. I came face to face with a 180" buck in a pine thicket. It was awsome. So, I have to agree with deer drives when done properly and legally.


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## TDD11

As a kid, during youth season, my dad and his friend would take 3 of us boys out. There was always a clear cut plan as far as where each of us was to be on stand, where the men would be pushing the deer, etc. They pushed the private lots we hunted quietly, and the deer were often walking or trotting past us boys on stand. It was a great way to get us interested as young kids. From what I remember, we killed every deer we shot at. We would go make small drives on numerous private farms that we would get permission to hunt during youth season. GREAT memories. I saw the biggest wild buck I've ever seen in person, in my first deer hunt ever. He was curious about the doe I had just shot, and was looking away from me, in her direction. I could have reached out and poked him with the barrel of my shotgun. I am law abiding, and only had 1 tag which I had just used on the doe. He lived to see another day.

I've seen the flip side of it too. I am surrounded with amish neighbors - there are no deer here in our area. They kill everything. Drive 5-10 miles away from the amish community and there is some what of a deer population. 

My 2016 gun season sucked. The prep work I put into the private farm I hunt was wasted, when a family member of the farmer drove his truck back to hunt, and sat in the stand I was planning to sit in on opening morning. He parked right next to the thicket that deer bed down in every year. I had no plan B.
Also on opening morning, the neighboring properties sounded like a war zone.. properties where in years past I never heard a shot. I know who the group is that did the drive, and they hunt by the busload. Mid day Monday I thought to myself that I had probably heard 60-70 shots, most of them probably in adjacent properties. At 12:59pm I decided I would count the gun shots for the rest of the day. I heard 34 between 12:50pm and 3pm, and 30 of them had to be in the woods to my south. I saw 2 yearlings, 3 different occasions last week, but no mature deer. I don't think any mature deer lived through opening day - and I'm shocked that the 2 dumb yearlings made it out alive.


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## bigwayned

I spent four days hunting last week in gun season. Monday and Saturday were all day sits in the same spot from daylight to dark. Tuesday and Sunday I moved to a different spot for the afternoon but I was in the woods all day,all four days that I hunted. I was hunting private property and the property around it gets pounded during bow season as hard as any public land in the state. The only deer I seen were all seen on Saturday when they were pushing the neighboring farms. I was very fortunate to get a buck on public land earlier this year so I've only bowhunted the property once this season. It's a 20 acre property and it doesn't take long for the deer herd to get wise to the hunting pressure. At 8:30 am I had two does run past at 15 yards that I didn't shoot at. Five minutes later I seen the drivers go through the area and yes one of them were trespassing on the property I hunt until he seen me at which point he crossed back onto the other property. I figured the rest of the day would be a bust after that but I had deer pass by me four more times throughout the rest of the day. I had good opportunities at a very small one that was by itself and a nice buck that evening that I did not have a tag for so they both got the pass. I'm not against deer drives as much as I'm against the trespassing and taking bad shots at running game,but sometimes they need a bump to get them on their feet. The responsibility always lies with the shooter to make the shot as safe and ethical as possible. I'm sure I could have made the 15 yard shot on one of the first two that ran by me but I'm not going to take risky shot,I don't like wounding animals for sure and I'm not starving.


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## Seaturd

In 37 years of deer hunting I've shot at one running deer that was probably also out of range. It was a large buck that was very obviously injured and I missed it. I've also been the recipient of some driven deer on adjoining properties but they had slowed to a walk by the time they got to me. The only "driving" my two sons and I do consist of one of us, usually me, still hunting a section while they post up in expected escape routes. It works on occasion.


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## baitguy

The Amish are good, hard working people, I have a friend who lives as a "Yankee" among them ... but that relatively primitive existence means they sometimes have to eat by any means possible, they don't have the convenience that we do to run to Giant Eagle and get something for dinner ... I've seen them take fish home that are ridiculously small, and all they could cram in a basket or bucket ... they catch as much as they can every time out, it's a matter of eating ... they'll even clean out a pond filled w/stunted 'gills ... not so bad on Erie but they can decimate a smaller lake in a short time


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## MassillonBuckeye

Deer drives are legal: Do you want more government regulation or less?


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## Seaturd

baitguy said:


> The Amish are good, hard working people, I have a friend who lives as a "Yankee" among them ... but that relatively primitive existence means they sometimes have to eat by any means possible, they don't have the convenience that we do to run to Giant Eagle and get something for dinner ... I've seen them take fish home that are ridiculously small, and all they could cram in a basket or bucket ... they catch as much as they can every time out, it's a matter of eating ... they'll even clean out a pond filled w/stunted 'gills ... not so bad on Erie but they can decimate a smaller lake in a short time


It's also a matter of leaving seed for the next crop be it deer, fish, etc. And there is also that little matter of obeying the law....


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## bobk

baitguy said:


> The Amish are good, hard working people, I have a friend who lives as a "Yankee" among them ... but that relatively primitive existence means they sometimes have to eat by any means possible, they don't have the convenience that we do to run to Giant Eagle and get something for dinner ... I've seen them take fish home that are ridiculously small, and all they could cram in a basket or bucket ... they catch as much as they can every time out, it's a matter of eating ... they'll even clean out a pond filled w/stunted 'gills ... not so bad on Erie but they can decimate a smaller lake in a short time


Their lifestyle doesn't give them the right to trespass and poach. If meat is needed they can raise chickens , pigs. cows, goats...... Breaking the law is not ok because of the lifestyle one chooses.


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## bobk

beaver said:


> family trees that branch....


Oh man. Lol


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## Lundy

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Deer drives are legal: Do you want more government regulation or less?


I want the same amount as now. The current regulation is what makes drives legal, I would favor a revision to the law to further define or eliminate them. That isn't more regulation, same number of laws as previously, just defined differently.

While I am not a fan of drives for all of the reasons I previously stated I also realize that drives on private property will probably never be curtailed in my lifetime. I do however believe that it is entirely possible to see the elimination of drives on public lands in the very near future and I would strongly support that change. 

If hunters want to see improved deer hunting on public hunting areas they need to reduce harvest to allow for population growth. The bag limits need to be specific to each public hunting area and adjusted yearly to account for changes in the deer population. It really isn't all that hard but has not been much of a priority when the populations were exploding across the state and a hunter could legally kill 18 deer. Now that that trend has reversed it would and is much easier to control growth than it is to reduce population. The effort to manage in much smaller geophrapies is already underway and evidenced with the most current regulations and bag limits. There is no reason we couldn't have really good deer hunting on public hunting areas. Drives and high hunter success rates do not lend themselves well to that management model.


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## fastwater

baitguy said:


> The Amish are good, hard working people, I have a friend who lives as a "Yankee" among them ... but that relatively primitive existence means they sometimes have to eat by any means possible, they don't have the convenience that we do to run to Giant Eagle and get something for dinner ... I've seen them take fish home that are ridiculously small, and all they could cram in a basket or bucket ... they catch as much as they can every time out, it's a matter of eating ... they'll even clean out a pond filled w/stunted 'gills ... not so bad on Erie but they can decimate a smaller lake in a short time


I know some good hardworking people that aren't Amish as well. Like bobk said, Doesn't give them the right to break the law. 
If they are not hunting their own property, they should have to buy a hunting lic. and a tag for every deer they take. They should not take any more deer than anyone else is legally allowed to take. Nor should they be allowed to break tresspassing laws. 
In other words, whether they work hard or not, are good or bad, whatever their belief system is, whatever way they choose to lead theirs lives...non of that should trump the law that everyone else has to live by. Not hunting laws...or any other laws.


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## Doboy

"The Amish are good, hard working people, I have a friend who lives as a "Yankee" among them ... but that relatively primitive existence means they sometimes have to eat by any means possible, *they don't have the convenience that we do to run to Giant Eagle and get something for dinner".
*
WHAT!!TF,,,??? They can PAY a driver to sit in a van for a 16 hr day!???? 3 days in a row!
THEY can hire my friends CHARTER for a whole day, & give him a $100 TIP!
I can't do that!!!

RANT!!!!!
'My' camp, for about 40 years, WAS on PRIVATE PROPERTY, on the Muskingum River bank,,,,, Dresden.
Like #1 or #2 deer harvest count for dozens of years.
I was given permission to bring along 5 or 6 of my 'ol hunting friends,,,, 3 of them were from our sportsman club in Pa. Every other weekend we would go down, get together and 'HUNT', party, BS & enjoy life! What a paradise we HAD!
Dozens of deer walked pass our cabin. When we would sit in our stands in the evening, there would be no problem counting 50-60 turkeys walking pass,,,,, heading to their roosts. 
"WAS" is the word.
(Keeping this as short & simple as I can,,,, I think I posted this story before,,,,)
Then 2 Trumble Co 'busses' started showing up,,,, about 4 years ago. 'They' hired the guy who lives up on the hill to push the deer for them, WITH 8-12 DOGS!
We would sit in our tree stands & watch & listen to those dogs as they pushed the deer herd for miles. Down through all of the adjoining private properties, through their corn & bean fields, pass & under our stands,,,, around a huge circle for MILES!!!! Every thicket/ bedding area on our private property is distroyed. So much for building quality bucks!
There's nothing as disheartening as sitting on PRIVATE property, with the permission that you literately WORKED years for, and watch those 'people' & those dogs scour every square foot.
Specially when 'THEY' are down there, 'cause there isn't any more deer left on their property! The 'driver' told me to take a look into the trailer/ coffin,,, there wasn't any tags on about 8 deer!
I gave up,,, done deal,,, no more Dresden for me!

So,,,, I made friends with a near-by farmer with 50 something acres,,, 1/2 mi down the street. I helped him cut his fire wood, build food plots, put in a driveway entrance with piping,,, etc,etc. I put up 4 tree stands so every wind direction was covered. ALL SET RIGHT?
1st day,,, I didn't even get in my stand & here comes 2 guys through the woods yelling, hitting trees with sticks, putting on a drive! LWT!
Turns out, THEY own a farm almost 2 mi away, & are driving out EVERY private property, pushing the deer towards their acreage where their FAMILY is waiting on those deer! When I pitched a B*&^#!, they told me that they have been doing this for 50 years and aren't going to stop now! I asked them if they had written permission to push out all of this private property,,,,,, SAME ANSWER!
'They' are also that bunch that will shoot 15-18 rounds at a 300yd deer, flat-out running through a bean field!
I Been there, & I seen it! They push ALL of the deer to their property where they " HAVE NO LIMITS" claiming "DEER DAMAGE".."I don't need a tag".
(BTW,,, The wardens know all about all of this crap!) ;>)

I should start building a huge feeding station in my back yard, & shoot 'em at night,,,, out of a window,,,,


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## supercanoe

I have no use for deer drives. I would like to see them outlawed. I've been a part of deer drives and it brought no satisfaction to me what so ever. It was actualIy somewhat sickening to me, so I now decline to participate when the offer arises. I can kill deer on my own terms with out anyone's help much more efficiently.


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## ML1187

Is there any state in the Nation that outlaws deer drives I wonder ?


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## MassillonBuckeye

ML1187 said:


> Is there any state in the Nation that outlaws deer drives I wonder ?


Not sure if this is current or not but looks like Maine has a law. 

http://www.sportingjournal.com/main153.shtml

Maine law, as written describes driving deer as follows:

“Driving deer or taking part in a deer drive is unlawful, except that 3 or fewer persons may hunt together, without the aid of noisemaking devices. Driving deer is an organized or planned effort to pursue, drive, chase or otherwise frighten or cause deer to move in the direction of any person(s) who are part of the organized or planned hunt and known to be waiting for the deer.”


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## DenOhio

Hunting on my buddies farm land we drive after Monday. If you got a deer on Monday you are a gunless driver and any volunteer that wanted. The drivers do not carry guns at our place. I always drive cause I don't eat them and don't want them. My wife simply does not eat meat. We have a dozen folks that is family or close friends including my BFF that owns the land. As for me I am a trophy only hunter on Monday giving any meat I shoot to the hunting party. Need I say, I haven't pulled a trigger at one for over 10 years now. For me it's more about being altogether, night time stories and jokes. In my old age I guess I have become the safety manager and chief cook which I prefer anyway. We have never had an incident and hopefully never will. Years ago I was involved in some public land drives, no thank you! I think it would be insane for my kids and family to partake in events like I did. I could tell some stories that happened but won't waste my time. I'm sure you have all heard lots of them. I will mention once our party hooked up with another which took the numbers to approaching 40. Good Lord, glad everyone made it out alive. Gut shot deer, nice buck with face blown off, people with horror stories of slugs singing by their heads, one buck had a horn shot off, crazy stuff. For my two cents ban drives on public lands. I think we do it as correctly as it can be done.


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## beaver

I love the amount of "it's not my way so it should be illegal" on this thread.


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## ML1187

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Not sure if this is current or not but looks like Maine has a law.
> 
> http://www.sportingjournal.com/main153.shtml
> 
> Maine law, as written describes driving deer as follows:
> 
> “Driving deer or taking part in a deer drive is unlawful, except that 3 or fewer persons may hunt together, without the aid of noisemaking devices. Driving deer is an organized or planned effort to pursue, drive, chase or otherwise frighten or cause deer to move in the direction of any person(s) who are part of the organized or planned hunt and known to be waiting for the deer.”


Yep cool find MB. Seems like some states limit the amount of drivers , with Maine being the most restrictive with a max of 3 hunters. Other states have limits of 5 , 25 , etc. 
Some states allow dogs and horses even!

Pretty neat article ...
http://georgesoutdoornews.bangordailynews.com/2013/03/27/maine-woods/deer-driving-law-reinterpreted/

There doesn't seem to be a state that totally prohibits deer drives, although Maine might interpret their law in that way.


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## Lundy

beaver said:


> I love the amount of "it's not my way so it should be illegal" on this thread.


On public land, yes. To me it is more about respect of a public resource and the animal being hunted. Guys fishing with dynamite look like pretty good fishermen when you look in their freezer and as long as they don't take (tag) more than permitted all is good, right?


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## Lewis

Interesting stats from Wisconsin...25-30% of all hunting deaths due to deer drives.
http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/story/news/local/2015/11/27/deer-season-deadliest-years/76302796/


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## beaver

Lundy said:


> On public land, yes. To me it is more about respect of a public resource and the animal being hunted. Guys fishing with dynamite look like pretty good fishermen when you look in their freezer and as long as they don't take (tag) more than permitted all is good, right?


Pretty much. You can preach respect of the animal and public resource all you want, but fact is that it's still just a resource. There are regulations already in place for that resource, and as long as they're followed , we need to respect others ways of utilizing them. Just because you don't like deer drives, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it. Public land is just that, public. If you don't like it, get yourself some private land access. 

I get sick of the "my way or you're wrong" attitude when it comes to deer hunters. It's probably the main reason I basically stopped deer hunting unless my freezer ran low. Deer are literally the easiest game to kill in this state. Trophy hunters think everyone should let young bucks walk, traditional hunters think compound hunters are cheating, compound hunters think crossbows are cheating, bow hunters think gun hunters are cheating, and everyone is an expert and master hunter anymore..... it's just always someone else's fault when they don't kill deer. 

I was a trophy bow hunter. Between the attitude of other hunters and the fact that it became not much of a challenge , I got burned out. Now, if they'd let me shoot one from my window with a spotlight I would just to put it in the freezer and get it over with. I started duck hunting and got back into trapping to have some peace in the outdoors, and wouldn't you know it duck dynasty became the new fad....


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## Seaturd

I don't think it's a matter of Lundy doesn't like deer drives - I bet if you put it to a vote doing away with them would win the popular vote. The electoral college might be a different matter, esp. if the round hats are bussed to the voting booths....


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## Lundy

beaver, contrary to what you think you may know I have never deer hunted public land in the 40+ years I have deer hunted in Ohio

The deer herd is a public resource and current regulations are in place but I also know that none are set in stone or forever. They are modified to address changes in the resource just as they have been since the beginning of modern deer hunting in this state. Methodology, seasons, bag limits are always changing. Since you don't deer hunt much anymore you apparently are not aware of the major regulation changes in just the last 10 years that address the management needs, or hunter requests, as they arise., they have been numerous and will continue to be going forward.

I would suggest that you to not place any large wagers on drives on public hunting lands remaining a legal method 5 years from now or you might be out some money just as the guys that bet against some rifles being legal for deer hunting. It would be naive to believe that ways to improve the hunting experience on public lands, including deer drive discussions, is only taking place on internet websites. I assure you it is being discussed by those that can effect change. 

I don't today hunt under the same regulations as I did when I started in 1966 and I wont hunt under the same regulations in 2017 that I did in 2016.


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## beaver

I don't deer hunt much, because it rarely takes more than a day or two for me to put a decent sized deer in the freezer. I hunted a total of 5 hours this year to get the job done, and that was only because I had a 12 year old with me. I'm aware of the regulation changes, but that wasn't my point. My Pont was that currently, it is legal. As long as the bag limits and other regulations are followed, I don't care how people kill deer. I learned years ago that if I wanted to hunt my way, and not deal with others, that I needed to put the work in to get some private land. 

I prefer to spot and stalk solo, or sit in a stand and wait. However, I'm not going to try to tell others that they can't hunt how they like because it's not how I hunt. 

Honestly truth be told, bow hunters probably wound and lose more deer than anyone.


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## Lundy

beaver said:


> Honestly truth be told, bow hunters probably wound and lose more deer than anyone.


With the current harvest numbers I think that is a very safe statement.


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## garhtr

beaver said:


> However, I'm not going to try to tell others that they can't hunt how they like because it's not how I hunt.


 That's pretty much how I feel about it.


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## cb55

Lundy said:


> All of them


When you say all of them do you mean the corn pile that you had dumped in front of you box blind? Should we outlaw baiting that spreads disease food plot give you an unfair advantage siting in box blinds and tree stands also? I don't care how you hunt as long as you do it by the law and are safe.


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## 9Left

... I still cant stand the Amish drivers...I've scouted probably a hundred square miles of public land over the the years between Egypt Valley, Jockey Hollow, AEP and Muskingum Watershed. Those guys just plain rape the resource, they absolutely don't care about other hunters or property lines. I've seen it every year and they do it right in front of you. They are the only reason that I do not like deer drives..


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## capt.scott

beaver said:


> Pretty much. You can preach respect of the animal and public resource all you want, but fact is that it's still just a resource. There are regulations already in place for that resource, and as long as they're followed , we need to respect others ways of utilizing them. Just because you don't like deer drives, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it. Public land is just that, public. If you don't like it, get yourself some private land access.
> 
> I get sick of the "my way or you're wrong" attitude when it comes to deer hunters. It's probably the main reason I basically stopped deer hunting unless my freezer ran low. Deer are literally the easiest game to kill in this state. Trophy hunters think everyone should let young bucks walk, traditional hunters think compound hunters are cheating, compound hunters think crossbows are cheating, bow hunters think gun hunters are cheating, and everyone is an expert and master hunter anymore..... it's just always someone else's fault when they don't kill deer.
> 
> I was a trophy bow hunter. Between the attitude of other hunters and the fact that it became not much of a challenge , I got burned out. Now, if they'd let me shoot one from my window with a spotlight I would just to put it in the freezer and get it over with. I started duck hunting and got back into trapping to have some peace in the outdoors, and wouldn't you know it duck dynasty became the new fad....


I think you pretty much sum it up Beaver.


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## fastwater

I too believe there will be changes in laws as far as driving deer on public land. And if outlawing drives on public land ever came to a vote, even though I'll most likely to be privileged enough to live the rest of my life hunting private land, I would surely vote to outlaw it.
Again...on public land.
In this thread, we've talked about respect for the deer, respect for public resources...what about respect for our fellow sportsman?
IMO, there are things that may be legal, but when it comes to treating others like we want to be treated...just aren't right to do.
Same with fishing. If you're sitting in your 'honey hole' cranking out your favorite fish, it's more than legal for me and a half dozen other boats to Pull up within feet of you and start chunking away. Legal, yes...having consideration or respect for you...no!
When I was in my late teens and early 20's, I hunted public land along with private. As earlier posted, I know what it feels like to be posted up on a hillside clad in my bright orange and have a large group of guys get out on the opposite hillside and sweep right by you on public land blowing every deer out of the county. Knowing good and well they saw me and everyone else that was on a stand when they first started out.
Again, Legal...yes.
Showing common courtesy or respect for fellow sportsman(even though it's legal) I hardly think so.
Sadly, this respect for others and common courtesy is something that really lacks in the mentality of many outdoorsman today. Everyone seems to have the 'I'm getting mine regardless if I screw yours up in the process" attitude.


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## capt.scott

cb55 said:


> When you say all of them do you mean the corn pile that you had dumped in front of you box blind? Should we outlaw baiting that spreads disease food plot give you an unfair advantage siting in box blinds and tree stands also? I don't care how you hunt as long as you do it by the law and are safe.


Good point CB55. Not much skill hunting over 500 pound corn pile.


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## Flathead76

beaver said:


> I love the amount of "it's not my way so it should be illegal" on this thread.


People are too stuck in the mindset that their way of hunting deer is the only way to hunt deer. Killing deer is pretty easy. If I didn't like eating them so much I wouldn't even bother "hunting" for them. That being said I'm not going to bash someone's style on how they hunt them.


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## jamesbalog

deer drives are my favorite part of deer hunting and before you ask yes i sit in a treestand and hunt with a bow. I probably spend more time bow hunting than most. Drives are just a fun time for me, its different and only happens a few times a year and i look forward to it. Unfortunately this year i didnt get to take part in any which kind of upsets me. I wish we could hunt with dogs in Ohio, im going to have to go somewhere where it is legal for a hunt, a bet its a blast.


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## Flathead76

cb55 said:


> When you say all of them do you mean the corn pile that you had dumped in front of you box blind? Should we outlaw baiting that spreads disease food plot give you an unfair advantage siting in box blinds and tree stands also? I don't care how you hunt as long as you do it by the law and are safe.


That's a very good point that you make. Driving deer manipulates deer movement into areas in which you can shoot them. People do not like this because it takes deer out "thier" hunting area. Its not really my style of hunting but to each thier own. Hunters driving deer is a tradition that is going away in time. Not as many do so like they used to. Many larger sections of land have been sectioned off so most of the tracks of land that hunters have are smaller. Many these days do not wish to push deer off thier pockets of land that they are so lucky to hunt these day. Many people who participate in deer drives are meat hunters. A deer is a deer.

Now many hunters dislike people who hunt over bait. Baiting deer manipulates deer movement out of areas in which they do not usually travel into areas in which you can shoot them. People do not like this because it takes deer out of "thier" hunting areas as well. I personally think that it takes more woodsmanship skills to successfully kill a deer on a deer drive vs hovering over a pile of corn with your weapon of choice. Many of your consistent hunters who kill trophy deer have one thing in common. They hunt over bait piles waiting on a trophy deer. Especially in late bow season. Many also will not disclose the fact that thier deer was killed over a bait pile when they tell the story. It's really not that difficult to kill a big deer doing this with scouting cameras these day. Just get 4-5 small parcels around urban areas and plop a pile of corn with a camera on it. Every time you pile on more corn swap out the camera cards. Keep deer shopping till something you want to shoot makes a pattern of when he comes in. Then all you have to do is play the wind and put the hours in on stand.


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## fastwater

This is starting to remind me of a political debate in which other things not even relevant to the original topic of driving deer is entered into the conversation for no more reason than to muddy the waters.
Trying to make the equalization between driving deer and setting out a corn pile when it comes to abruptly altering deer is such a long stretch that it's actually comical. Comparing the two is really a laughable stretch.
As far as my comments pertaining to driving deer goes, again, I wish they would outlaw driving deer on public property. Just like they have done baiting on public land.
If I want to do a drive on my own land(which I never have nor intend to) that doesn't disturb any Hunter on my land that's supposed to be there. Obviously, they would be in on the drive.
But on public land, that's simply not the case.
If I form a drive on public land, I get the privilege of probably ruining others hunts for my own selfishness that I shouldn't have the right to do. Or at the very least, I shouldn't feel right doing. Legal or not.

I know I said it before, but with the deer numbers down, I think deer driving will be on a big increase in the near future. Especially on public land. I also believe the topic will be more heavily discussed by ODNR within the next couple years. Especially if more people start getting shot on public land. 
IMO, I don't think its a matter of 'if ' deer driving laws will be changed in the future as much as ' when' they will be changed.


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## Lundy

cb55 said:


> When you say all of them do you mean the corn pile that you had dumped in front of you box blind? Should we outlaw baiting that spreads disease food plot give you an unfair advantage siting in box blinds and tree stands also? .


I don't dump piles I use feeders.

I think regulation change is in the future for baiting also. I am good with that change.

Along the same discussion of legal methods on public versus private land. Baiting on public lands are already restricted as I'm sure you know. I am confident other methodology changes are in our future.

_It is unlawful for any person to distribute, place, or scatter salt, grain, or other feed capable of luring, enticing, or attracting wild birds or deer on lands owned, controlled, or maintained by the Ohio Division of Wildlife, including those lands managed by the division by virtue of a lease or an agreement._


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## bigwayned

fastwater said:


> I too believe there will be changes in laws as far as driving deer on public land. And if outlawing drives on public land ever came to a vote, even though I'll most likely to be privileged enough to live the rest of my life hunting private land, I would surely vote to outlaw it.
> Again...on public land.
> In this thread, we've talked about respect for the deer, respect for public resources...what about respect for our fellow sportsman?
> IMO, there are things that may be legal, but when it comes to treating others like we want to be treated...just aren't right to do.
> Same with fishing. If you're sitting in your 'honey hole' cranking out your favorite fish, it's more than legal for me and a half dozen other boats to Pull up within feet of you and start chunking away. Legal, yes...having consideration or respect for you...no!
> When I was in my late teens and early 20's, I hunted public land along with private. As earlier posted, I know what it feels like to be posted up on a hillside clad in my bright orange and have a large group of guys get out on the opposite hillside and sweep right by you on public land blowing every deer out of the county. Knowing good and well they saw me and everyone else that was on a stand when they first started out.
> Again, Legal...yes.
> Showing common courtesy or respect for fellow sportsman(even though it's legal) I hardly think so.
> Sadly, this respect for others and common courtesy is something that really lacks in the mentality of many outdoorsman today. Everyone seems to have the 'I'm getting mine regardless if I screw yours up in the process" attitude.


If you are fortunate enough to hunt private land the rest of your life then why is it your concern as to what happens on public land? Seems a bit selfish.


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## beaver

That law isn't because of deer though. That law is to keep people from unknowingly getting in trouble. If someone is baiting deer at Cooper hollow wildlife area, and I decide to go turkey hunting there one morning, I could get a ticket for killing a bird going to a bait station that I wasn't even aware existed. 

Also, for the record Lundy, I know you don't hunt public land. You hunt out of boxes in my neck of the woods and are contemplating giving up hunting all together because you have lost the farm that you hunt. I read your posts man. Don't give up. There's plenty of farms out there. I know it's a pain, but it's doable. 

Back to drives.... I understand your points and views on why you guys don't like drives. However, that's life. When I deer hunted, rabbit hunters screwed me up a lot. It was frustrating, but they had just as much of a right to do what they were doing as I did. When I'm duck hunting, I constantly have to deal with selfish and inconsiderate fishermen, but that's just how it goes. Doesn't mean I want to outlaw fishing during duck season. 

As long as the bag limits are followed, I don't see the issue. It makes no difference to me if 12 guys kill 10 deer from drives or from stands. It's still 10 dead deer.


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## Flathead76

fastwater said:


> This is starting to remind me of a political debate in which other things not even relevant to the original topic of driving deer is entered into the conversation for no more reason than to muddy the waters.
> Trying to make the equalization between driving deer and setting out a corn pile when it comes to abruptly altering deer is such a long stretch that it's actually comical. Comparing the two is really a laughable stretch.
> As far as my comments pertaining to driving deer goes, again, I wish they would outlaw driving deer on public property. Just like they have done baiting on public land.
> If I want to do a drive on my own land(which I never have nor intend to) that doesn't disturb any Hunter on my land that's supposed to be there. Obviously, they would be in on the drive.
> But on public land, that's simply not the case.
> If I form a drive on public land, I get the privilege of probably ruining others hunts for my own selfishness that I shouldn't have the right to do. Or at the very least, I shouldn't feel right doing. Legal or not.
> 
> I know I said it before, but with the deer numbers down, I think deer driving will be on a big increase in the near future. Especially on public land. I also believe the topic will be more heavily discussed by ODNR within the next couple years. Especially if more people start getting shot on public land.
> IMO, I don't think its a matter of 'if ' deer driving laws will be changed in the future as much as ' when' they will be changed.


When you drive deer you try and push them to an area. When you bait pile deer or feeder you pull them to an exact spot. If it didn't work people simply would not do it or spend hundreds or sometimes thousands a year on just corn. People who dump truckloads of feed know exactly what they are doing. That's exactly why they do it. To alter and manipulate deer movement to an exact spot.


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## ostbucks98

If you want to ban driving because of "Safety" concerns then we need to ban hunting from tree stands. Way more injuries occur falling out of trees. So we should start there.

If you want to ban driving deer due to wounded animals then we need to ban all archery first. Nothing leads to more lost deer in a season than deer being shot with bows. Statistically not even close. 

You guys need to really rethink your logic. Hunting is such a joke anymore because everyone wants to force their bad logic on everyone else. 

I hunt in the same area as a large hunting camp that has 10 to 20 guys and they drive from 8am on day one to finish. Its very effective and I'm sure they have a blast. Its not something I do personally but I will tell you that when I see them pass the house I run my butt right out in the woods because several times I have killed deer that they have pushed.

We have become nothing but crybabies about everything outdoors. We need to support all legal methods and be thankful those options exist and stop worrying about what "other guy" is doing.


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## bobk

ostbucks98 said:


> If you want to ban driving deer due to wounded animals then we need to ban all archery first. Nothing leads to more lost deer in a season than deer being shot with bows. Statistically not even close .


Can you post those statistics?


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## ostbucks98




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## M.Magis

Nice to see the elitist attitude has never left the OGF Hunters Lodge.


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## Flathead76

ostbucks98 said:


>


I do appreciate that you did find data to back up your statement but the info is very dated at best. All that I would have to do to poke holes all through those numbers is look at the dates these studies were written. Those numbers may have been true years ago but they are not accurate now. All you have to do is look at the advancement of archery equipment these days. In the 80s bows were so slow and inefficient. A fast bow was 200 fps in a compound bow hunting set up. All the compounds were 50 percent let off at best using round wheels. My first deer that I ever shot was at 25 yards. Deer came in offering a relaxed broadside shot. By the time the arrow got there the deer on the noise of the shot spun 180 degrees having the arrow penetrate on the complete opposite side that I shot at. With today's bows a slow compound will achieve 300 fps in a hunting set up. Many get 320-350 fps in a hunting set up. Even the sights are light years ahead. You can use noise dampening equipment to the point where the only noise that is heard is the release click when the shot goes off. That's just the difference in long bows. Crossbows are a totally different story all together. Today's fast crossbows shoot over 400 fps in a hunting set up. They shoot pretty much dead nuts to the hunting speeds that they advertise. Just sight them in and go kill deer. They are killing machines these days.


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## garhtr

Lundy said:


> I don't dump piles I use feeders.
> _._


 Those who can hunt do ---those who can't use bait ! 
Those who can hunt do --Those who can't drive ! 
I see very little difference in those phrases.
Good luck and Good Hunting ( baiting )


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## ostbucks98

What's the difference in hunting over corn or any other food source other than being effective. What about making a small pond as a water source? A food plot? Logic?


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## beaver

The advancement of archery equipment may be astronomical since the 80's, but the amount of slobs operating the equipment remains the same. 

For every good and ethical bow hunter (or any hunter for that matter), there is a hunter who shoots a total of 6 practice shots before season, can't stand to let one walk away because of poor shot opportunity, or just flat out can't make a good shot to save his life. 

I've lost a couple good hunting buddies because of it. They live to bow hunt. They buy into all of the stupid gimmicks on the market and hash tag every post they make with what they were using and team something or other. However, every single year they shoot at least one, sometimes multiple deer that they can't find. They make every excuse in the book, but when it comes to it, they took a shot that they never should have taken to begin with. When I questioned why they would take that shot, it was always the same answer. "It was about to get away (out of range, spotted them, walking into brush) and it was the only shot I had, what else was I supposed to do? " uhhh, how about let it walk and hope for another opportunity another time? 

I also get several phone calls a year asking for my help tracking deer. More often than not, it's not a difficult tracking job. People spend so much time focusing on their gear, and scent, and hash tag... yet rarely any time invested into actual skill anymore. They read an article or listen to whoever the latest idiot on TV is and take off to the woods.


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## Flathead76

ostbucks98 said:


> What's the difference in hunting over corn or any other food source other than being effective. What about making a small pond as a water source? A food plot? Logic?


Good question. Say your hunting an oak flat, standing bean field, food plot, pond, ect you are hunting a general area to attract deer to food. It could be one acre or hundreds of acres. The deer will use these areas to get food that they need. With a bait pile or feeder set up you can pin point this area to an exact spot.


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## garhtr

Flathead76 said:


> Good question. Say your hunting an oak flat, standing bean field, food plot, pond, ect you are hunting a general area to attract deer to food. It could be one acre or hundreds of acres. The deer will use these areas to get food that they need. With a bait pile or feeder set up you can pin point this area to an exact spot.


 Not to mention you can manipulate the time the food goes down with today's timed feeders I see baiting laws for turkey and waterfowl why not deer ??


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## Flathead76

beaver said:


> The advancement of archery equipment may be astronomical since the 80's, but the amount of slobs operating the equipment remains the same.
> 
> For every good and ethical bow hunter (or any hunter for that matter), there is a hunter who shoots a total of 6 practice shots before season, can't stand to let one walk away because of poor shot opportunity, or just flat out can't make a good shot to save his life.
> 
> I've lost a couple good hunting buddies because of it. They live to bow hunt. They buy into all of the stupid gimmicks on the market and hash tag every post they make with what they were using and team something or other. However, every single year they shoot at least one, sometimes multiple deer that they can't find. They make every excuse in the book, but when it comes to it, they took a shot that they never should have taken to begin with. When I questioned why they would take that shot, it was always the same answer. "It was about to get away (out of range, spotted them, walking into brush) and it was the only shot I had, what else was I supposed to do? " uhhh, how about let it walk and hope for another opportunity another time?
> 
> I also get several phone calls a year asking for my help tracking deer. More often than not, it's not a difficult tracking job. People spend so much time focusing on their gear, and scent, and hash tag... yet rarely any time invested into actual skill anymore. They read an article or listen to whoever the latest idiot on TV is and take off to the woods.


I will 100 percent agree with this statement. Four years ago I participated in a draw hunt for oak openings Metroparks for thier archery hunt. Before you could send in an application your had to get an archery test showing that you could put 4 out of 5 arrows in a 10" circle target at 20 yards. The worst part is they would let you practice before you took your test. Not like a deer will let you get in your practice shots before they let you shoot at them. I had to wait over two hours in line just to shoot 4 arrows due to people practicing. It was eye opening to say the least. Most of the people could not do it to save thier lives. You knew that if they didn't pass that they would be out somewhere else trying to shoot at a deer. Truthfully it made you feel bad for the deer that these people are shooting at.


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## Flathead76

garhtr said:


> Not to mention you can manipulate the time the food goes down with today's timed feeders I see baiting laws for turkey and waterfowl why not deer ??


Exactly. It will come to that as deer harvest numbers keep falling. Way more deer get killed over bait sites than deer drives during deer season.


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## beaver

garhtr said:


> Not to mention you can manipulate the time the food goes down with today's timed feeders I see baiting laws for turkey and waterfowl why not deer ??


I asked this question to a DOW employee once. They said that the reasoning is because birds are wired different. Deer will come come to a feeder, but they will also shy away from it if something is wrong. They said waterfowl especially, and turkeys will continue to come to it even after being shot at. I've hunted deer over corn, and had turkeys come to it while hunting. They obviously saw me, but didn't seem to care. They just kept pecking away. Occasionally if id make a sudden move , they'd half ass scatter for a second, then come right back. I've heard stories of some of the blue blood hunt clubs up north hunting ducks over corn and how they would shoot at a flock, they'd circle, and come right back into the firing line. I don't know how true, but that was the answer.


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## beaver

Flathead76 said:


> I will 100 percent agree with this statement. Four years ago I participated in a draw hunt for oak openings Metroparks for thier archery hunt. Before you could send in an application your had to get an archery test showing that you could put 4 out of 5 arrows in a 10" circle target at 20 yards. The worst part is they would let you practice before you took your test. Not like a deer will let you get in your practice shots before they let you shoot at them. I had to wait over two hours in line just to shoot 4 arrows due to people practicing. It was eye opening to say the least. Most of the people could not do it to save thier lives. You knew that if they didn't pass that they would be out somewhere else trying to shoot at a deer. Truthfully it made you feel bad for the deer that these people are shooting at.


Wow. If they can't put 6 out of 6 in a 10" circle at 20 yards, they have no business chasing deer with a bow.


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## Flathead76

beaver said:


> I asked this question to a DOW employee once. They said that the reasoning is because birds are wired different. Deer will come come to a feeder, but they will also shy away from it if something is wrong. They said waterfowl especially, and turkeys will continue to come to it even after being shot at. I've hunted deer over corn, and had turkeys come to it while hunting. They obviously saw me, but didn't seem to care. They just kept pecking away. Occasionally if id make a sudden move , they'd half ass scatter for a second, then come right back. I've heard stories of some of the blue blood hunt clubs up north hunting ducks over corn and how they would shoot at a flock, they'd circle, and come right back into the firing line. I don't know how true, but that was the answer.


Also turkeys will only hammer these spots during daylight. Once turkeys get on corn piles they will not leave. Classic example why trough shooting almost made the wild turkey extinct. A deer on the other hand will go to these spots at all hours day or night. It is harder to pattern deer over a bait pile vs a turkey because of this. There are so many turkeys and ***** around me that baiting deer is an expensive exercise to keep an area baited. Many will still do it because it simply works.


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## Flathead76

beaver said:


> Wow. If they can't put 6 out of 6 in a 10" circle at 20 yards, they have no business chasing deer with a bow.


I wish you could have seen it. It was disgusting to say the least. My Hoyt was in the shop getting new strings and cables put on it. I threw a sight on my bowfishing bow and passed the test with that. And before you ask no I did not bother taking the time to take my muzzy spin cast off the bow.


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## bobk

Ostbucks, while a good read I would still like to see real stats that claim more deer are wounded by bow hunters than gun hunters. I've never seen one but read about guys that claim it's true. I myself find it hard to believe but that's just my opinion.


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## fastwater

bigwayned said:


> If you are fortunate enough to hunt private land the rest of your life then why is it your concern as to what happens on public land? Seems a bit selfish.


With respect...this question presents exactly the attitude I'm talking about. The attitude 'that Im getting mine so I don't care what's going on around me with other sportsmen or our sport as a whole'.

Far as my concern for what happens on public land being selfish...
...Quit the contrary..
...just because I am fortunate to hunt private land, doesn't mean I forgot where I come from.
Doesn't mean I forgot the people I have known that have virtually quit hunting do to the fact the only place they had to hunt was public land, spent time traveling year after year scouting out their fav. spot prior to opening day only to have the Calvary show up doing drives overtop them.

I promise you...even with deer numbers being down, I have enough private ground to hunt that I can take whatever bag limit ODNR sets for this and a few other counties if I choose to do so. I could have the attitude that I'm getting mine so why be concerned for others. To me, when it comes to thinking about hunting in general, I could be selfish and think inside my own little box/world and do what suits me best regardless if I step on someone elses toes or not.
Wasn't raised to do that...not gonna start now. And IMO, that 'hurray for me, the heck with you' or ' I'm getting mine so I don't care about the rest' kind of attitude has not only hurt our sport of hunting as a whole, but fishing and every other outdoor activity we have.

My biggest concern is for our sport as a whole. And doing what I can do to insure young people coming up have a better opportunity and DESIRE to do it as I did. Regardless if they are hunting public or private land.
Sadly, common sense, common courtesy and respecting others seems to really be taking back seat these days to ' I got mine, you get yours'.



Flathead76 said:


> When you drive deer you try and push them to an area. When you bait pile deer or feeder you pull them to an exact spot. If it didn't work people simply would not do it or spend hundreds or sometimes thousands a year on just corn. People who dump truckloads of feed know exactly what they are doing. That's exactly why they do it. To alter and manipulate deer movement to an exact spot.


While I see your point there are a couple things to note:

1) Baiting is illegal on public land...and driving deer on public land is what I have referred to throughout this thread.
2) You can put all the bait piles out you want and if you drive those deer, they are not going to stand at those bait piles and let you shoot them. Drive those same deer often enough, they wI'll adapt and won't be showing up at those bait piles during legal shooting hours.
3) if a hunter chooses to hunt over a planted corn/bean field, they are hunting over a baited area. If they scout out an area seeing many deer runs/sign throughout a stand of nut trees, they know why the deer are going there. To eat acorns,beechnuts and hickories...a 'natural' bait station. Someone mentioned earlier hunting over a water source. Same thing...'natural' bait.


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## Weekender#1

The majority of the deer killed in the season are taken by gun hunters. Me, I am a bow hunter as well as gun. I am retired so what just sit at home no way. I sat and pushed with a group of 4, one day we had 6. I saw no illegal moves such as trespassing or not tagging a deer that was taken. I had a great time. Gun season brings a change in the way we hunt. More bait piles will come out after gun. From what I saw this year is if you are a bow hunter and not a deer yet, you should have been out of your house this fall and in the woods, shame on you. It was the year of the 8 Point buck, big and small.


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## Flathead76

fastwater said:


> With respect...this question presents exactly the attitude I'm talking about. The attitude 'that Im getting mine so I don't care what's going on around me with other sportsmen or our sport as a whole'.
> 
> Far as my concern for what happens on public land being selfish...
> ...Quit the contrary..
> ...just because I am fortunate to hunt private land, doesn't mean I forgot where I come from.
> Doesn't mean I forgot the people I have known that have virtually quit hunting do to the fact the only place they had to hunt was public land, spent time traveling year after year scouting out their fav. spot prior to opening day only to have the Calvary show up doing drives overtop them.
> 
> I promise you...even with deer numbers being down, I have enough private ground to hunt that I can take whatever bag limit ODNR sets for this and a few other counties if I choose to do so. I could have the attitude that I'm getting mine so why be concerned for others. To me, when it comes to thinking about hunting in general, I could be selfish and think inside my own little box/world and do what suits me best regardless if I step on someone elses toes or not.
> Wasn't raised to do that...not gonna start now. And IMO, that 'hurray for me, the heck with you' or ' I'm getting mine so I don't care about the rest' kind of attitude has not only hurt our sport of hunting as a whole, but fishing and every other outdoor activity we have.
> 
> My biggest concern is for our sport as a whole. And doing what I can do to insure young people coming up have a better opportunity and DESIRE to do it as I did. Regardless if they are hunting public or private land.
> Sadly, common sense, common courtesy and respecting others seems to really be taking back seat these days to ' I got mine, you get yours'.
> 
> 
> 
> While I see your point there are a couple things to note:
> 
> 1) Baiting is illegal on public land...and driving deer on public land is what I have referred to throughout this thread.
> 2) You can put all the bait piles out you want and if you drive those deer, they are not going to stand at those bait piles and let you shoot them. Drive those same deer often enough, they wI'll adapt and won't be showing up at those bait piles during legal shooting hours.
> 3) if a hunter chooses to hunt over a planted corn/bean field, they are hunting over a baited area. If they scout out an area seeing many deer runs throughout a stand of nut trees, they know why the deer are going there. To eat acorns,beechnuts and hickories...a 'natural' bait station. Someone mentioned earlier hunting over a water source. Same thing...'natural' bait.


Only 6 percent of Ohio is public land. Driving deer or not those deer will get blown out of most of these areas regardless. There just are not enough places for everyday people to hunt anymore. Many do not have the means to purchase or pay high prices for leases for a hobby. So that leaves the squeezed out displaced hunters to battle it out on our very limited public lands in this state. All you have to do is look at Adams county where almost 60 percent of the land is owned by non residents who hunt. As far as the comparison of a natural bait corn field being the same as a bait pile that is a rediculous comparison. If I wanted to I could manipulate deer movement to the tee with a bait pile. Throw a camera up and know for certain what time frame to hunt. I could even do it to the point that every deer that comes to eat out of it would offer itself a slam dunk bow shot. All you would have to do is build a brush pile next to a large tree and start making a line to the down wind side which is your stand. First find and area about 200 yards from an area that deer bed in. Preferably a neighbor or out of stater who will not let you hunt. The more bunk at area the better because there will not be anything for the deer to eat but your bait pile. Find a big tree. On the up wind side build a brush pile with about a 3 yard gap. You want it so the deer will come in from the right or the left. Pour your corn in a straight line from the pile to the tree. Do not spread it. Throw a camera up to monitor the deer activity on when to hunt. Now continue that line straight for 20-25 yards and throw up a stand or a blind. Bait the area and monitor the camera for several weeks. When the deer come in to feed they will be dead broadside feeding with thier head behind the large tree giving you ample time to draw your bow back and center the pin. When done like this this is an apple to oranges conversation. Makes people who drive deer not seam so bad now. Right?


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## fastwater

Flathead76 said:


> Only 6 percent of Ohio is public land. Driving deer or not those deer will get blown out of most of these areas regardless. There just are not enough places for everyday people to hunt anymore. Many do not have the means to purchase or pay high prices for leases for a hobby. So that leaves the squeezed out displaced hunters to battle it out on our very limited public lands in this state. All you have to do is look at Adams county where almost 60 percent of the land is owned by non residents who hunt. As far as the comparison of a natural bait corn field being the same as a bait pile that is a rediculous comparison. If I wanted to I could manipulate deer movement to the tee with a bait pile. Throw a camera up and know for certain what time frame to hunt. I could even do it to the point that every deer that comes to eat out of it would offer itself a slam dunk bow shot. All you would have to do is build a brush pile next to a large tree and start making a line to the down wind side which is your stand. First find and area about 200 yards from an area that deer bed in. Preferably a neighbor or out of stater who will not let you hunt. The more bunk at area the better because there will not be anything for the deer to eat but your bait pile. Find a big tree. On the up wind side build a brush pile with about a 3 yard gap. You want it so the deer will come in from the right or the left. Pour your corn in a straight line from the pile to the tree. Do not spread it. Throw a camera up to monitor the deer activity on when to hunt. Now continue that line straight for 20-25 yards and throw up a stand or a blind. Bait the area and monitor the camera for several weeks. When the deer come in to feed they will be dead broadside feeding with thier head behind the large tree giving you ample time to draw your bow back and center the pin. When done like this this is an apple to oranges conversation. Makes people who drive deer not seam so bad now. Right?


Not exactly.
Actually you pointing out the very little public land there is, versus the thousands that are trying to use it, is even more the reason deer drives should be made illegal on public lands. Gonna add that I don't think its gonna get any better. No more land is being made and less and less public land available. Won't be but a couple years this state will be like many others like Texas in which if you don't lease land to hunt...you just won't hunt. Yet another reason private land owners really need to plant food plots etc. for wildlife.

The majority of your response and the activities you've mentioned about baiting, sense It's illegal to do those activities on public land, I'm assuming you are referring to doing them on private land. Again, my comments in this thread have never been made regarding private land. Just public...where my activities affect directly others that have the right to that public land just as I do. Goes back to my earlier point that just cause something may be legal to do, doesn't always make it right when it comes to common courtesy of others.

IMO, this baiting topic that's been dragged into a thread about driving deer is like as you said earlier about the Amish... ' deserves its own thread'. And like you said about an Amish thread...would most likely get closed as well.

And by the way, you are right about re-directing deer on private land with baiting. But I assure you, baiting is far from the only way. I've redirected plenty of deer creating thickets, strategically cutting tree lines, piling brush creating choke points etc.


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## ostbucks98

Flathead76 said:


> Only 6 percent of Ohio is public land. Driving deer or not those deer will get blown out of most of these areas regardless. There just are not enough places for everyday people to hunt anymore. Many do not have the means to purchase or pay high prices for leases for a hobby. So that leaves the squeezed out displaced hunters to battle it out on our very limited public lands in this state. All you have to do is look at Adams county where almost 60 percent of the land is owned by non residents who hunt. As far as the comparison of a natural bait corn field being the same as a bait pile that is a rediculous comparison. If I wanted to I could manipulate deer movement to the tee with a bait pile. Throw a camera up and know for certain what time frame to hunt. I could even do it to the point that every deer that comes to eat out of it would offer itself a slam dunk bow shot. All you would have to do is build a brush pile next to a large tree and start making a line to the down wind side which is your stand. First find and area about 200 yards from an area that deer bed in. Preferably a neighbor or out of stater who will not let you hunt. The more bunk at area the better because there will not be anything for the deer to eat but your bait pile. Find a big tree. On the up wind side build a brush pile with about a 3 yard gap. You want it so the deer will come in from the right or the left. Pour your corn in a straight line from the pile to the tree. Do not spread it. Throw a camera up to monitor the deer activity on when to hunt. Now continue that line straight for 20-25 yards and throw up a stand or a blind. Bait the area and monitor the camera for several weeks. When the deer come in to feed they will be dead broadside feeding with thier head behind the large tree giving you ample time to draw your bow back and center the pin. When done like this this is an apple to oranges conversation. Makes people who drive deer not seam so bad now. Right?



If You think that would work then I pretty much lost all respect for your opinion. I run 19 cams across 3 properties. 6 cams over corn. This has been going on for about 8 years. I have 100's of 1000's of pics. I bet I have less than 100 pics of deer eating during daylight hours and its usually at the most random time. 

The cams on main trails provide a lot more valuable info than a food source.


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## Lundy

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/pdfs/publications/hunting/Pub 5304_DeerSummary_R0916.pdf

Read page 12 from the hunter survey date about wound rates

Not sure how accurate the data is as it relies on hunters telling how many they hit and didn't recover


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## ostbucks98

Here is a graph I found. It shows as equipment has become more advanced the trend has actually gone up.


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## exide9922

I can't even keep corn on the ground long enough for the deer, raccoons eat it all first!


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## ostbucks98

That's a lot of good info Lundy. Thanks!


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## MassillonBuckeye

Seaturd said:


> I don't think it's a matter of Lundy doesn't like deer drives - I bet if you put it to a vote doing away with them would win the popular vote. The electoral college might be a different matter, esp. if the round hats are bussed to the voting booths....


Would that vote be based on fact or popular opinion? Or even worse, urban legend. A bunch of people voting for something they don't understand, they just know someone doesn't like it and frabricates a bunch of stuff as to why. Not to say these stories we see here are bogus. Some are very well reasoned. I'm sure some experiences have been a little trumped up.

Would that vote be fair to the folks who do it safely and respectfully?

NO MORE GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS! Or just regulate what you dont agree with. Thats ok too!


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## bobk

Good stuff Kim. Still like to compare the numbers to the spray and pray crowd with guns. I hear a whole lot more 3 shot bursts than one shot around my area. That tells me they are poking at running deer. I doubt most of these guys will fess up to what they do.


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## bobk

ostbucks98 said:


> Here is a graph I found. It shows as equipment has become more advanced the trend has actually gone up.


Looks like it peaked in 1980 to me.


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## ostbucks98

You don't see that ramp to the right? Or are you just gonna play devils advocate the whole time?


I'm sure with the current influx of bowhunters over gun hunters there is no possible way it has dropped drastically.


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## Lundy

I have been keeping harvest data for a while now. The attached is not completely up to date but it is close and removes some of the questions guys may have about historical harvest data.


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## bigwayned

I hunt solo at least 90% of the time. This includes my hunting on the private property I have been privileged to hunt and also some trips to public land dwn south against my family's wishes. Our hunting group has dwindled down to basically me and my brother and with our jobs/priorities it's hard for us to find the time to do much hunting together. I love to hunt and iwill do it for as long as I can. 
I think alot these days of years past when our group was in full swing and we would do small drives at the end of gun week,usually 4-6guys in camp. I have not been involved in a deer drive now for probably 15 years other than being the recipient of one someone else kicked up and it just happened to run my way.
I miss the comrades of our hunting party but I always enjoy the peacefulness of being in the woods by myself. When it comes down to it,it is all of our responsibility to be safe,ethical, and aware of our surroundings. The odnr sets bag limits way to high to begin with and that's been going on for years. We as hunters need to be aware they do not always have just our concerns in mind when they set these limits and we should all be more diligent as to the numbers we harvest for ourselves and the shots we take. Everyone is never going to agree on everything and if people are hunting within the laws set then we need to respect each others actions.


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## bobk

I sure do see the ramp. It spiked in the 80's. I'm not playing devils advocate. I would like to see some gun numbers to compare that's all. Your graph is good but it's old data as was said already. I will jump out since I can tell you think I'm just trying to argue with you which is not the case. Proof is all I would like to see. So far it's all about archery and no gun info.


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## Flathead76

ostbucks98 said:


> If You think that would work then I pretty much lost all respect for your opinion. I run 19 cams across 3 properties. 6 cams over corn. This has been going on for about 8 years. I have 100's of 1000's of pics. I bet I have less than 100 pics of deer eating during daylight hours and its usually at the most random time.
> 
> The cams on main trails provide a lot more valuable info than a food source.


Everyone is I titled to thier opinion. All you have to do is wait til January. This is how they have pretty much wiped out the deer herd in Geauga county urban areas where I grew up. All they would do is wait for heavy snow and it was game on time. A cut bean field covered with a foot or more of snow or frozen water hole will not attract deer in that time frame. Have not hunted there in probably 15 years even though there are still many place that I could.


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## M.Magis

ostbucks98 said:


> Here is a graph I found. It shows as equipment has become more advanced the trend has actually gone up.


I don't think that's what that graph shows. But perhaps I’m misunderstanding what it’s representing.

Regardless, most of these studies are crap. The antis will cite “studies” that claim over 50% wounding rate. We can all search the web and find graphs to validate what we think. The fact there are still people that feel superior because of how they hunt is the most disturbing thing I’ve found from this conversation. But certainly not surprising, as it’s the same people now as it was 10 years ago.


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## fastwater

[yQUOTE="ostbucks98, post: 2255049, member: 568"]If You think that would work then I pretty much lost all respect for your opinion. I run 19 cams across 3 properties. 6 cams over corn. This has been going on for about 8 years. I have 100's of 1000's of pics. I bet I have less than 100 pics of deer eating during daylight hours and its usually at the most random time.

The cams on main trails provide a lot more valuable info than a food source.[/QUOTE]

Yes, including the depletion of the deer herd in areas. 

Not that many years ago I hunted horns. I can tell you that I have never shot what I considered a trophy over a corn pile. Were feeders out on the property....yep. The pics of these big bucks feeding at the feeders all came at night. Would get pics on cams placed in very lightly used runs( sometimes even hard to tell it was a deer run) of the same bucks sneaking to its bedding area the next morning just before daylight. 
Hunting these bucks was more about setting up, playing the wind and trying to catch them on their way in or out of their bedding area. 

Been my experience that the younger the buck is, the more chances of shooting him at a feeder. But it doesn't take him long at all learning to feed at night. 
Does just never seem to learn. But even they are smart enough to go to a property that there is no hunting on when the Calvary hits the woods in gun season.
Used to have permission to hunt an area in Hocking Co. that the owner had never let any hunting on...ever (bobk, I'm sure you know this fella). There was a high point on that property in which I used to sit and watch herds of deer flock to his property from every direction as soon as the war started. I could have literally killed deer there all day long. I bow hunted the biggest buck I've ever seen to date on his place for three years straight. Counted 19 obvious points and never was able to get them all. Though I watched this deer bedded just about every time I hunted that property, Only got within bow range of him probably 4-5 times in three years around late pre-rut but he just never presented a shot. Never did get him. 
But I learned a lot from him. I would be up in my stand in the woods and he would be bedded in or just outside of a little 20ft X 20ft thicket that was on the backside of a big sloping alfalfa field. He was always in that thicket come daylight. This thicket was out in the wide open but he could see or wind anything coming. I've set in my stand with the bino's and watched that deer for hours on end. Right before dark, he would get up and stretch, maybe eat a little alfalfa but never left that spot till after dark. Again, never did figure out a way to get him.


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## Northern Reb

2 or 3 shots with my bow an entire season would be a great year. I probably average 40 trips into the woods in a normal yr, most on various private properties in NW OH. I hunted gun week 5 out of 7 days, used vacation days to do it and saw ONE deer.

I guess what I'm trying to say is when I get lucky enough to see a deer you better believe my % of a successful and clean shot is much greater than spray and pray hunting all the farmers here do. Most of my farmer friends have literally thousands of acres, on flat ground with postage stamp woods to clear. They are very efficient in their work which only decimates further the already very small deer population. 

I'm not looking for a pat on the back, but I hunt hard and put in a lot of time whether it's during the season or preparing for it. So when I see weekend warriors go out one day an entire season and load up the truck illegally, my opinion is obviously swayed against it.


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## ML1187

fastwater said:


> [yQUOTE="ostbucks98, post: 2255049, member: 568"]If You think that would work then I pretty much lost all respect for your opinion. I run 19 cams across 3 properties. 6 cams over corn. This has been going on for about 8 years. I have 100's of 1000's of pics. I bet I have less than 100 pics of deer eating during daylight hours and its usually at the most random time.
> 
> The cams on main trails provide a lot more valuable info than a food source.


Yes, including the depletion of the deer herd in areas. 

Not that many years ago I hunted horns. I can tell you that I have never shot what I considered a trophy over a corn pile. Were feeders out on the property....yep. The pics of these big bucks feeding at the feeders all came at night. Would get pics on cams placed in very lightly used runs( sometimes even hard to tell it was a deer run) of the same bucks sneaking to its bedding area the next morning just before daylight. 
Hunting these bucks was more about setting up, playing the wind and trying to catch them on their way in or out of their bedding area. 

Been my experience that the younger the buck is, the more chances of shooting him at a feeder. But it doesn't take him long at all learning to feed at night. 
Does just never seem to learn. But even they are smart enough to go to a property that there is no hunting on when the Calvary hits the woods in gun season.
Used to have permission to hunt an area in Hocking Co. that the owner had never let any hunting on...ever (bobk, I'm sure you know this fella). There was a high point on that property in which I used to sit and watch herds of deer flock to his property from every direction as soon as the war started. I could have literally killed deer there all day long. I bow hunted the biggest buck I've ever seen to date on his place for three years straight. Counted 19 obvious points and never was able to get them all. Though I watched this deer bedded just about every time I hunted that property, Only got within bow range of him probably 4-5 times in three years around late pre-rut but he just never presented a shot. Never did get him. 
But I learned a lot from him. I would be up in my stand in the woods and he would be bedded in or just outside of a little 20ft X 20ft thicket that was on the backside of a big sloping alfalfa field. He was always in that thicket come daylight. This thicket was out in the wide open but he could see or wind anything coming. I've set in my stand with the bino's and watched that deer for hours on end. Right before dark, he would get up and stretch, maybe eat a little alfalfa but never left that spot till after dark. Again, never did figure out a way to get him.[/QUOTE]

Cool story on that giant ! 

It's obvious though what you should have done ...


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## Flathead76

fastwater said:


> [yQUOTE="ostbucks98, post: 2255049, member: 568"]If You think that would work then I pretty much lost all respect for your opinion. I run 19 cams across 3 properties. 6 cams over corn. This has been going on for about 8 years. I have 100's of 1000's of pics. I bet I have less than 100 pics of deer eating during daylight hours and its usually at the most random time.
> 
> The cams on main trails provide a lot more valuable info than a food source.


Yes, including the depletion of the deer herd in areas.

Not that many years ago I hunted horns. I can tell you that I have never shot what I considered a trophy over a corn pile. Were feeders out on the property....yep. The pics of these big bucks feeding at the feeders all came at night. Would get pics on cams placed in very lightly used runs( sometimes even hard to tell it was a deer run) of the same bucks sneaking to its bedding area the next morning just before daylight.
Hunting these bucks was more about setting up, playing the wind and trying to catch them on their way in or out of their bedding area.

Been my experience that the younger the buck is, the more chances of shooting him at a feeder. But it doesn't take him long at all learning to feed at night.
Does just never seem to learn. But even they are smart enough to go to a property that there is no hunting on when the Calvary hits the woods in gun season.
Used to have permission to hunt an area in Hocking Co. that the owner had never let any hunting on...ever (bobk, I'm sure you know this fella). There was a high point on that property in which I used to sit and watch herds of deer flock to his property from every direction as soon as the war started. I could have literally killed deer there all day long. I bow hunted the biggest buck I've ever seen to date on his place for three years straight. Counted 19 obvious points and never was able to get them all. Though I watched this deer bedded just about every time I hunted that property, Only got within bow range of him probably 4-5 times in three years around late pre-rut but he just never presented a shot. Never did get him.
But I learned a lot from him. I would be up in my stand in the woods and he would be bedded in or just outside of a little 20ft X 20ft thicket that was on the backside of a big sloping alfalfa field. He was always in that thicket come daylight. This thicket was out in the wide open but he could see or wind anything coming. I've set in my stand with the bino's and watched that deer for hours on end. Right before dark, he would get up and stretch, maybe eat a little alfalfa but never left that spot till after dark. Again, never did figure out a way to get him.[/QUOTE]
Location location location. I have a friend from high school that consistently kills a 150 or better almost every season over bait. Matter a fact he does not even bother hunting until January when heavy snowfall on the ground. He waits til most have over hunted and pushed their deer into his very small pockets to hunt. His cameras do give him general information but his best information comes from the snow itself. He looks for fawn tracks or drops of blood indicating the second rut. This is when he will start hunting when most everyone has long given up for the year. All the mature does have been bread so he is focuses on fawn movement. If you do not kill your buck during the rut late season over bait piles during the second rut while the deer are in survival mode January late season is your next best bet. He works his ass off dumping corn and running cams during this period until he finds a target deer that he wants to kill. Guess that is part of the perks of being layed off for the winter every year. If you or osubucks saw his trophy wall you would respect my opinion that it works. Even if you don't I don't care either. Both of are just stuck in your ways.


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## Flathead76

Northern Reb said:


> 2 or 3 shots with my bow an entire season would be a great year. I probably average 40 trips into the woods in a normal yr, most on various private properties in NW OH. I hunted gun week 5 out of 7 days, used vacation days to do it and saw ONE deer.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is when I get lucky enough to see a deer you better believe my % of a successful and clean shot is much greater than spray and pray hunting all the farmers here do. Most of my farmer friends have literally thousands of acres, on flat ground with postage stamp woods to clear. They are very efficient in their work which only decimates further the already very small deer population.
> 
> I'm not looking for a pat on the back, but I hunt hard and put in a lot of time whether it's during the season or preparing for it. So when I see weekend warriors go out one day an entire season and load up the truck illegally, my opinion is obviously swayed against it.


I will give you props because I was in that area of the state for a long time. To say that area of the state can be rough to hunt is an understatement. Especially eastern Williams, Henry, or Lucas county.


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## crittergitter

I don't have a problem with it. When done right it's a good tactic for hunting deer. I prefer a soft bump during bow season over a full on push or drive. If I could make any changes to the current hunting seasons I would limit the number of gun days. No early muzzy and no bonus gun. Just the standard Mon - Sun regular gun season and then the late muzzy would be 3 days. That's it. I'd also make it illegal during youth gun. 

The extra days were due to the expansive population. Since it is not so robust we don't need them. I'd lop off the extra archery days too. Put the archery opener back on 1st Saturday of October and the last day on Jan 31st. Done.


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## beaver

I say do away with bow/gun/muzzy season and just make it deer season with whatever legal weapon you choose. As long as the bag limits are followed, why does it matter what weapon is being used?


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## Lewis

Well, if the shoe fits, go ahead and call me superior and an elitist because I feel that 25 guys who trespassed on a 60 acre plot and then proceeded to rapid fire shots at running deer were slobs.
Go ahead and call me superior and an elitist for having compassion for my fellow hunters who regularly have their hunts ruined by large drives because they have no option but public land.
Go ahead and call me superior and an elitist because I believe in clean ethical kills of all game animals, not taking low percentage shots at running animals.
Ethics can include things like not shooting ducks on the water or not shooting a pheasant on the ground before it flushes.

As I said before I am not opposed to small, well orchestrated drives. If anyone has spent much time around Ohio woods during gun you have probably witnessed some of the large chaotic drives and all the shots at deer running wide open. These are the kind of drives that to me are giving some hunters a bad image.
Wonder how some would feel if they were out in the boat enjoying their favorite fishing hole and a boat full of 25 guys came through pulling a 200 foot wide trawling net??? That's how I would describe some of these deer drives.


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## kayak1979

Took this photo during gun season and it was hilarious watching the one guy direct and point to everyone like he was the conductor to an orchestra. Not even an hour or so later they were already gone. Some of the guys were smoking cigs too and all I could do was laugh. So I took this photo with my Nikon @Lundy and made a meme from it. =)


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## cb55

You guys talk about blowing out the deer ruining the hunt. We have done drives went back and sat an hour or so later and have seen deer have even shot a nice buck or two.


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## MassillonBuckeye

Lewis said:


> Wonder how some would feel if they were out in the boat enjoying their favorite fishing hole and a boat full of 25 guys came through pulling a 200 foot wide trawling net??? That's how I would describe some of these deer drives.


Was it legal to use a 200ft wide trawling net? You certainly don't own that fishing spot, so if that happens, and is legal, you have to deal with it. It's that simple. Personally, I'd talk to the trawler and ask if he'd toss me a few fish since I probably wasn't going to catch any that day.

Not directed at anyone in particular but the problem I see is many people can't see past the end of their noses is the problem. You have to live with your neighbors within the confines of the law. If you don't like the laws, you have a few options. Complaining on social media isn't high on my list of viable options. 

If you are talking about people breaking the law(trespassing), there are ways to deal with that as well. No one is above the law regardless of their belief system. I do believe, this nation is governed by laws and anyone who cares to operate here has to abide by them.


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## Lewis

Probably not...lol Sometimes being legal doesn't make it right.


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## MassillonBuckeye

Lewis said:


> Probably not...lol Sometimes being legal doesn't make it right.


sometimes what we think is "right" someone else disagrees or feels is inconsequential or irrelevant.

Legal is as "right" as it needs to be. Can't regulate every dang thing ever.


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## beaver

I wouldn't call shooting ducks on water or pheasants in brush unethical. Maybe unsporting, but not unethical. If anything, it is more ethical to take an almost guaranteed lethal shot than risk a cripple or sailing bird . 

It sounds like none of you are actually opposed to drives. It sounds like you're opposed to trespassing, unethical shots, and over bagging. I think we can all agree that those things are bad regardless of who is doing them.


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## Flathead76

beaver said:


> I wouldn't call shooting ducks on water or pheasants in brush unethical. Maybe unsporting, but not unethical. If anything, it is more ethical to take an almost guaranteed lethal shot than risk a cripple or sailing bird .
> 
> It sounds like none of you are actually opposed to drives. It sounds like you're opposed to trespassing, unethical shots, and over bagging. I think we can all agree that those things are bad regardless of who is doing them.


Last paragraph sounds like a good start to a Amish thread.


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## garhtr

cb55 said:


> You guys talk about blowing out the deer ruining the hunt. We have done drives went back and sat an hour or so later and have seen deer have even shot a nice buck or two.


 I've done the same thing many times, few drives "clean out" an area, deer will often be right back into the area if disturbed.


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## M.Magis

Lewis said:


> Well, if the shoe fits, go ahead and call me superior and an elitist because I feel that 25 guys who trespassed on a 60 acre plot and then proceeded to rapid fire shots at running deer were slobs.
> Go ahead and call me superior and an elitist for having compassion for my fellow hunters who regularly have their hunts ruined by large drives because they have no option but public land.
> Go ahead and call me superior and an elitist because I believe in clean ethical kills of all game animals, not taking low percentage shots at running animals.
> Ethics can include things like not shooting ducks on the water or not shooting a pheasant on the ground before it flushes.
> 
> As I said before I am not opposed to small, well orchestrated drives. If anyone has spent much time around Ohio woods during gun you have probably witnessed some of the large chaotic drives and all the shots at deer running wide open. These are the kind of drives that to me are giving some hunters a bad image.
> Wonder how some would feel if they were out in the boat enjoying their favorite fishing hole and a boat full of 25 guys came through pulling a 200 foot wide trawling net??? That's how I would describe some of these deer drives.


I should clarify, I wasn't referring to you and actually didn't go back but a couple pages and don't know who all is involved in the discussion. I didn't mean to paint everyone with the same brush, but I may have done so inadvertantly.
I think most here have made good points, and even though not everyone hunts the same I think most support the others' ways as long as legal. The eletists I'm referring to don't share that same thought and have never made it a secret.


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## Lewis

Thanks for clarifying Mike. Appreciate it.
I think just some regulation changes regarding drives would be beneficial to the sport of hunting.
Kind of like how Ohio anglers lobbied successfully for a minimum size limit on Saugeyes on some Ohio lakes. Or how anglers lobbied for Catfish regulations on the Ohio River to stop paylake robbery of the resource.


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## Seaturd

garhtr said:


> I've done the same thing many times, few drives "clean out" an area, deer will often be right back into the area if disturbed.


 Hee hee I've watched from a distance as a "driver" walked by deer that saw his every step while they remained tightly bedded in a multi-flora rose thicket. Deer that have been to the gun season rodeo a few times often sneak out after the driver(s) stroll on by.


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## Lundy

Just curious. Have any of you ever witnessed multiple standers kill numerous deer in one drive? The most I ever witnessed was 6 deer. His gun was not plugged and he reloaded. Have any of you had to dispatch wounded deer that resulted from a large drive? Have any of you ever witnessed over 75 shots on one drive? Have any of you ever had to yell to the drive participants that a couple of the deer they shot are laying dead close to you but they don't know it because there are dead deer laying everywhere and way too many blood trails to follow. Have you ever had to help them find the deer that crossed onto the property you are hunting because they don't know how to or care enough to. Have you ever watched the group gather at the end and then everyone start tagging the deer no matter who shot them? Have you ever had the same drivers year after year tresspass and each year say they are lost? Have you ever called the GW to report the game violations only to never even get a call back.

I have a very good vantage point from a high point on the farm I hunted and I have witnessed this numerous times every year for a whole lot of years. This year was the first year in over 20 years that the 25+ man drives didn't take place. The new owner not only purchased the farm I hunted on but most of the surrounding farms and shut them down fortunately.

This is my exposure to drives, this is what I know, this is what I have personally experienced. If this is representative of all drives, then yes, they all suck. I'm sure there are violators of game laws that hunt by all methods, I just have not been exposed to them like I have to this group. I am guessing my group is not unique or this thread would not exist.

Lewis asked for opinions, I gave it, it carries no more value that anyone elses but it is my opinion.


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## fastwater

Like you Lundy, I have seen some of the same. Especially those on point shooting all the deer, reloading and shooting some more. Most of the time shooting at deer running wide open. The guys pushing never even seeing the deer cause they've pushed so fast making so much noise that the deer took off long before the drivers could ever see them. They then all join together, divy up the deer using tags from all involved. Which itself is illegal.

Like I stated earlier in this thread, many years ago in the late 60's early 70-s, we drove deer. We didn't have to worry about breaking the law shooting a bunch of deer on our drives. There just wasn't that many deer. You'd be lucky to see 2... maybe 3 deer driving for two or three days. And that was in prime hunting territory.

Today on drives, deer are kicking up like rabbits. And they are being killed as such. But I believe those deer numbers are slowing down a lot more and a lot faster than what we are made to believe cause I believe, not including those non huntible deer in the suburbs and parks that ODNR includes when counting our total deer population and setting bag limits accordingly, that our deer numbers are excessively down in huntible areas. 

Sooo...let's keep driving and killing as many as we can, let's keep seeing if we can kill our bag limits each year. All the while the yotes will be playing havoc as well. 
Just may be a good thing for those that don't remember deer hunting in the 60's-70's to experience some of that. And for what it's worth, when that happens, the deer population won't rebound quickly. With the yote population we now have, it will take many, many years if it rebounds.


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## ostbucks98

You guys kill me. Is It the de er drives that bothers you or people trespassing and breaking the law?

Many of you repeatedly have lumped them together. If 25 drivers are trespassing then yes I agree this is a problem.

If 50 guys drive property they have every right to be on then I'm perfectly fine with that. If they shoot at deer on the run I'm fine with that. I do it. I've jumped and shot many deer. I've missed some as well. Its hunting. 

Here is some more ammo for the anti's. Word is the Gatlinburg fires were started by two teens who were attempting to smoke out deer.


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## chris1162

ostbucks98 said:


> You guys kill me. Is It the de er drives that bothers you or people trespassing and breaking the law?
> 
> Many of you repeatedly have lumped them together. If 25 drivers are trespassing then yes I agree this is a problem.
> 
> If 50 guys drive property they have every right to be on then I'm perfectly fine with that. If they shoot at deer on the run I'm fine with that. I do it. I've jumped and shot many deer. I've missed some as well. Its hunting.
> 
> Here is some more ammo for the anti's. Word is the Gatlinburg fires were started by two teens who were attempting to smoke out deer.


Shooting at a running deer is a unethical shot. Wonder how many you have injured doing that?


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## garhtr

ostbucks98 said:


> You guys kill me. Is It the de er drives that bothers you or people trespassing and breaking the law?
> 
> Many of you repeatedly have lumped them together. If 25 drivers are trespassing then yes I agree this is a problem.



I agree whole heartily, those guys breaking laws and shooting at any deer they see aren't going to suddenly turn into angels because they sit their butt in a tree stand. I hear plenty of 5 shot volleys from guys I know are in tree stands.
Bag limits, season times and lengths are the best ways to control deer numbers, not Hunting methods, IMO.
I see the hypocrisy here when many say they drove deer in the 70's when deer numbers were low but if I do it today I'm some slob who runs through the woods wounding deer, killing my Hunting companions , trespassing at will and killing too many deer, sad . 
God luck and Good Hunting !


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## garhtr

chris1162 said:


> Shooting at a running deer is a unethical shot. Wonder how many you have injured doing that?


 It's not unethical in my opinion if you are capable of making a clean kill and I have known some hunters that are extremely capable. I'm not and I don't attempt to do so but if Ostbucks can then more power to him. 
Good luck and good Hunting !


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## chris1162

garhtr said:


> It's not unethical in my opinion if you are capable of making a clean kill and I have known some hunters that are extremely capable. I'm not and I don't attempt to do so but if Ostbucks can then more power to him.
> Good luck and good Hunting !


He then stated he missed some of them a couple sentences later. It Doesnt sound like he is capable of making a clean ethical shot on a running deer so I have no ide why he thinks its a good idea.


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## M.Magis

Lundy said:


> Just curious. Have any of you ever witnessed multiple standers kill numerous deer in one drive? The most I ever witnessed was 6 deer. His gun was not plugged and he reloaded. Have any of you had to dispatch wounded deer that resulted from a large drive? Have any of you ever witnessed over 75 shots on one drive? Have any of you ever had to yell to the drive participants that a couple of the deer they shot are laying dead close to you but they don't know it because there are dead deer laying everywhere and way too many blood trails to follow. Have you ever had to help them find the deer that crossed onto the property you are hunting because they don't know how to or care enough to. Have you ever watched the group gather at the end and then everyone start tagging the deer no matter who shot them? Have you ever had the same drivers year after year tresspass and each year say they are lost? Have you ever called the GW to report the game violations only to never even get a call back.
> 
> I have a very good vantage point from a high point on the farm I hunted and I have witnessed this numerous times every year for a whole lot of years. This year was the first year in over 20 years that the 25+ man drives didn't take place. The new owner not only purchased the farm I hunted on but most of the surrounding farms and shut them down fortunately.
> 
> This is my exposure to drives, this is what I know, this is what I have personally experienced. If this is representative of all drives, then yes, they all suck. I'm sure there are violators of game laws that hunt by all methods, I just have not been exposed to them like I have to this group. I am guessing my group is not unique or this thread would not exist.
> 
> Lewis asked for opinions, I gave it, it carries no more value that anyone elses but it is my opinion.


That’s called poaching. I’ve known people set up bait piles, or feeders, and shoot deer at night. Should I just assume everyone that hunts over bait is the same way?

And yes, unfortunately never hearing back from the GW seems to be common.


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## garhtr

chris1162 said:


> He then stated he missed some of them a couple sentences later. It Doesnt sound like he is capable of making a clean ethical shot on a running deer so I have no ide why he thinks its a good idea.


I've missed deer standing still broadside-- more than once-- should I never attempt another shot ? Misses happen --at least for me.
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## ostbucks98

Because I'm honest. Its hunting and it happens. I've missed deer at 20 yards in a treestand standing broadside. Caught a sappling I didn't see. I'm man enough to admit my mistakes. If I jump a deer at a reasonable distance and with the right conditions I'm taking that shot.


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## Weekender#1

I certainly also enjoy pushing deer, never been fortunate to hunt in a group of 15 or 20, I bet that is exciting. We push in groups of 4-6 people total including pushers and standers, so not much of a group but a cluster*&^%. I have shot at deer that are moving through, not really running but more than a walk. I also enjoy bow hunting. I can say I have wounded deer with both a gun and bow in my life. Heck I have gone as far as loosing a fish that I was reeling in on Erie. So what, it is part of the sport, not that I like it a single bit. I have not wounded any deer this year, I am not sure on doves, some of them kept flying, did I put a pellet in one, maybe, I am sorry for that. But if you would like to bitch at me about it get in-line behind my mother-in-law, some crazy lady at work, as well as some pink pants guys from over there. That is if we are putting some people in categories.


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## garhtr

I have to admit I've never seen a drive with 20 to 25 individuals and I doubt I've seen one with more than 10. 
Our drives normally consist of 3-6 but I think I recall having 9 or 10 if you include a pair of youths tagging along but not actually shooting.
Honestly for the last few years it's hard for me to find hunters to drive for because most of the hunters I know have killed two or three deer before shotgun season and pursue other things. I always keep a tag for M/L but often find myself Hunting with one other person whom I'm always happy to drive for. Those small 2 or three man drives are the most fun for me and often the most successful.
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## MassillonBuckeye

garhtr said:


> I agree whole heartily, those guys breaking laws and shooting at any deer they see aren't going to suddenly turn into angels because they sit their butt in a tree stand. I hear plenty of 5 shot volleys from guys I know are in tree stands.
> Bag limits, season times and lengths are the best ways to control deer numbers, not Hunting methods, IMO.
> I see the hypocrisy here when many say they drove deer in the 70's when deer numbers were low but if I do it today I'm some slob who runs through the woods wounding deer, killing my Hunting companions , trespassing at will and killing too many deer, sad .
> God luck and Good Hunting !


Very sensationalist I agree. Haven't we had enough of that kinda crap?

Big yuuuuge drives are so bad. So, so bad! So bad, you don't even know. Believe me folks, they are bad and I know. I know better than the ODNR.
Some rumdum: "I'd vote for that"


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## bobk

Trump won. Get over it. You always try to ruin a good thread with your political crap.


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## baitguy

*WHAT!!TF,,,??? They can PAY a driver to sit in a van for a 16 hr day!???? 3 days in a row!
THEY can hire my friends CHARTER for a whole day, & give him a $100 TIP!
I can't do that!!!*

the Amish have plenty of $$$ ... they charge as much as anyone for their services but I don't think they pay a lick of taxes, which gives them 30-40% more bang for their buck, hence they can afford to pay those drivers and hire a charter ... many of those drivers are undermotivated folks working for $10 an hour under the table ... they are also no required to follow many of our "Yankee" laws ... not saying it's right, but as Joe Friday would have said ... just the facts man, just the facts


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## fastwater

I'm against all deer drives on public property because it ruins the hunting for those stand hunting.

Im against the way many deer drives are done with stampeding the deer and the deer running wide open past the guys posted up...or the drivers taking shots at deer running wide open. Seen too many deer shot all to hell and back. Seen to many guys do the spray and pray tactics on running deer not even knowing if they hit the deer or not and if the deer didn't fall right there or at least look like it stumbled, they don't even bother to fall out of their drive formation or stand location to look for blood cause the drive is still in process and they are afraid they might miss another deer coming along at 100 mph.

To sum my feelings up about driving deer, while there is a way to drive deer in which the deer are slowly pushed and the deer will just move fast enough to stay just ahead of the drivers. Presenting the stander's in the drive with at least a moderate walking shot on a deer. Not a shot on a deer running wide open, jumping , ducking and dodging through the woods wide open.

IMO, there's a huge different in a deer drive and a deer stampede.

I also don't believe in one person shooting multiple deer in a drive and at the end of the drive, everyone getting together and using different peoples tags to tag all the deer shot.
The very reason the law is written that you shoot a deer, go tag it, then you can shoot another if you have another tag is to stop this very thing. I think that law applies to all.



garhtr said:


> I agree whole heartily, those guys breaking laws and shooting at any deer they see aren't going to suddenly turn into angels because they sit their butt in a tree stand. I hear plenty of 5 shot volleys from guys I know are in tree stands.
> Bag limits, season times and lengths are the best ways to control deer numbers, not Hunting methods, IMO.
> I see the hypocrisy here when many say they drove deer in the 70's when deer numbers were low but if I do it today I'm some slob who runs through the woods wounding deer, killing my Hunting companions , trespassing at will and killing too many deer, sad .
> God luck and Good Hunting !


Have seen and heard the same 5 shot rapid fire from stand hunters also. Have seen stand hunters kill multiple deer without ever getting out of their stand. Have seen stand hunters shoot at deer, the deer run over the hill and the stand hunter never even get down out of their stand to check for blood.
Don't believe in that either.

And garhtr, I've re-read through this thread and don't see anywhere in it that anyone said you were a slob that ran through the woods wounding deer, killing people, a trespasser or kill to many deer.

What I have read is there are people here that have seen/witnessed many deer drives where the things you mentioned has happened. I'm one of them (with the exception of killing people. Though I have had a few slugs slung close by me more than once). 
But I don't know you or how you hunt or drive deer.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

bobk said:


> Trump won. Get over it. You always try to ruin a good thread with your political crap.


Actually, I always respond to political crap someone else posts first. But ok  Lets try to stay on topic Bobk.


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## Big Chief

Most entertaining thread I've ever read! 
We all hunt in our own way, get over it, move on.


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## fastwater

Big Chief said:


> Most entertaining thread I've ever read!
> We all hunt in our own way, get over it, move on.


Absolutely! 

And the title of this thread asks for opinions on a particular subject. 
Pro and con opinions were given. Some seem to take others opinions that they have a right to to heart and accuse people for being elitist, hypocrits etc for their opinions on a subject. Some have accused others of calling them slobs when the only thing people did was state their opinion on the subject which didnt agree with theirs
I've stated mine, others have stated theirs.
Don't think minds have been changed either way.
So yes, time to get over it and move on.

But I think it would be cool on public land if nobody stand hunted. Everybody just show up at where they're going to hunt and just walk around. Now that would really get the deer moving and even the playing field for all.


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## supercanoe

I've called the game warden several times on illegal deer drives on our neighboring property. It is the same scenario each time. Truckload of guys pulls up at the North gate, everyone jumps out of the truck bed and starts pushing to the standers on the South end of property, the truck takes off so no vehicles are left in view of the road. There is no hunting allowed on this property. The owners asked me to watch it and call the law on any hunters or atv trespassers. My calls were either not returned, or I was told that there was nothing the GW could do. I explained to the GW that I had eyes on the trespassers while talking to him. It didn't seem to matter to him.


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## ostbucks98

When you call the game warden report "tresspassing" and not "illegal deer drives" and they might take you more serious.


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## beaver

Also, if you don't actually own the property, you can't press charges for trespassing. 

People who complain about the wardens seem to forget that they have an entire county to cover. It's a long way from one end of my County to the other, especially driving these curvy roads. If he's on one end and I call on the other, he couldn't make it if he wanted to. They'd be gone. 

You should have called the state patrol and told them that you saw them pull up with no seat belts. Odds are there was one of those traffic monitors close by.


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## bobk

I have had much better luck calling the sheriff for trespassing violations. It's really their gig and not the game warden's. GW is for game violations is what they told me many years ago.


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## beaver

Just had this issue actually. Pulled 15 stands off of our place that weren't ours. 

The GW said that the hunting without permission charge is hard to stick because they have to be caught actually hunting. However, if they admit that they're their stands, a deputy can write them a criminal trespass ticket for each one. 

I doubt I'll go that route, but it's nice to know.


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## Weekender#1

What did I say, Landowners calling Game Warden/Police about someone on others property. Did caller have power of attorney or documents. No he wants them driving around his property to get a guy that very well might have permission, it is none of his damn business. As you can see in the report the police/GW do not even respond to the guy anymore, think it could be due to constant calls about a car driving past his precious lot. I have seen land owners that can not even enjoy their own land hunting as they are paranoid that someone is trespassing on the other side of someone else's land. It turns ugly with time. You know, you have seen the exact thing.
Look in the mirror, I hope that is not anyone here.


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## beaver

I agree weekender. When we used to do deer drives, there was one spot where we knew if we hunted it twice that week, we would have a visit at least once from the warden. There was a busy body in a trailer across from where we parked at that would call every time. They didn't hunt, and they only owned 2 acres, none of which was anywhere close to where we hunted. They were the typical crazy horse people who thought that a hunter anywhere within a mile of their precious walking bags of dog food would shoot them. 

It got to the point that we would all leave copies of our tags, licenses, and permission in a baggie under the wipers, so the warden didn't have to wait on us to get out of the woods to check us. Eventually he just quit responding after checking us for several years without ever finding a violation. That's what happens when you constantly cry wolf.


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## supercanoe

Weekender#1 said:


> What did I say, Landowners calling Game Warden/Police about someone on others property. Did caller have power of attorney or documents. No he wants them driving around his property to get a guy that very well might have permission, it is none of his damn business. As you can see in the report the police/GW do not even respond to the guy anymore, think it could be due to constant calls about a car driving past his precious lot. I have seen land owners that can not even enjoy their own land hunting as they are paranoid that someone is trespassing on the other side of someone else's land. It turns ugly with time. You know, you have seen the exact thing.
> Look in the mirror, I hope that is not anyone here.


That is not correct. When a neighboring land owner is a good neighbor, you do things to help them. When they ask you to watch for trespassers, you watch for trespassers. When they ask you to call the law, you call the law. When they ask for help on a project, you help them. No hunting is allowed on this property by declaration of the owner. The owner does not live there, I could hunt it and no one would know. That's not the kind of person that I am. You should really know the facts before making incorrect assumptions.


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## supercanoe

supercanoe said:


> That is not correct. When a neighboring land owner is a good neighbor, you do things to help them. When they ask you to watch for trespassers, you watch for trespassers. When they ask you to call the law, you call the law. When they ask for help on a project, you help them.


----------



## supercanoe

beaver said:


> Also, if you don't actually own the property, you can't press charges for trespassing.
> 
> People who complain about the wardens seem to forget that they have an entire county to cover. It's a long way from one end of my County to the other, especially driving these curvy roads. If he's on one end and I call on the other, he couldn't make it if he wanted to. They'd be gone.
> 
> You should have called the state patrol and told them that you saw them pull up with no seat belts. Odds are there was one of those traffic monitors close by.


I am well aware of that.


----------



## Shad Rap

beaver said:


> Just had this issue actually. Pulled 15 stands off of our place that weren't ours.
> 
> The GW said that the hunting without permission charge is hard to stick because they have to be caught actually hunting. However, if they admit that they're their stands, a deputy can write them a criminal trespass ticket for each one.
> 
> I doubt I'll go that route, but it's nice to know.


Damn 15 stands?????..wanna sell any???


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## garhtr

supercanoe said:


> That is not correct. When a neighboring land owner is a good neighbor, you do things to help them. When they ask you to watch for trespassers, you watch for trespassers. When they ask you to call the law, you call the law. When they ask for help on a project, you help them. No hunting is allowed on this property by declaration of the owner. The owner does not live there, .


 Thank goodness for good neighbors, 
I'm in the same boat, I don't live on my property either and my neighbor is always looking out for me. We haven't had to much trouble with hunters trespassing but I worry about theft. It sure helps me sleep better knowing he cares and is watching. I pretty much leave all my equipment ( except gun or bow) in and around our cabin. He's a great guy and even let's me Hunting his place. 
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## fastwater

beaver said:


> Also, if you don't actually own the property, you can't press charges for trespassing.
> 
> People who complain about the wardens seem to forget that they have an entire county to cover. It's a long way from one end of my County to the other, especially driving these curvy roads. If he's on one end and I call on the other, he couldn't make it if he wanted to. They'd be gone.
> 
> You should have called the state patrol and told them that you saw them pull up with no seat belts. Odds are there was one of those traffic monitors close by.


A lot of truth in what you say beaver.
While there is probably no doubt that there are GW's in counties that are guilty of some of the things they are accused of, there are also many that take their jobs serious and are pro active in there jobs.
I knew a GW (now retired) that had the reputation that the only way he was gonna write someone a ticket or even question someone is if he could do it from the seat of his vehicle. His shoes stayed polished and shiny. The people in the county he worked in not only painted this picture of him but so did everyone else in ODNR. It was a known fact throughout the dept. that the only reason he had and kept his job was politics.

I really don't think that is the norm though. Especially today. The requirements have been greatly increased to become a GW compared to what they were years ago. The cost of the required education alone today that never used to be a requirement versus what they make a year would seem to me that most GW's today never really think of getting rich in their work. It's more about their compassion for wildlife and insuring laws are maintained to insure future generations have the same opportunities we currently have. From the ones I know, I can assure you that they don't agree with all our current laws and from their experiences would like to see a few other laws put into place. They also don't agree with some of ODNR's overall policies when it comes to managing Ohio's deer heard. But they don't make those decisions. Though they can give their two cents, those decisions are made by another dept. They just have to enforce others decisions.

To form a valid opinion on our GW's would take an intimate knowledge of the total amount of $ the state awards to the ODNR divisions yearly budget. And then, know the percentage of that total $ thats delegated to each dept. within that division. All the while keeping in mind that as a rule, state officials don't usually put conservation or the ODNR at the top of the list in the 'important' rankings when it comes to where our state tax $ are gonna go. Therefore, the total budget awarded to conservation and the ODNR division is usually far less than what is needed.

Picturing the ODNR as a big pie and each of the many departments within ODNR is a section of that pie. The heads of those departments fighting for their portion of that $ for their budget. Hence the reason there is only one GW to cover a whole county with very limited $ for overtime. There are several instances in which a GW from a county with very low deer numbers and not many people hunting there results in very few (if any) calls to that GW during deer season so that GW gets temporarily assigned to another very active county to help that GW out. 

The volume of calls to an active counties GW,especially on opening day is very unbelievable. Those of us that live in rural areas know how long we usually wait for a deputy from the Sheriffs office to show up when called. And there are many deputies in every county. 

Can only imagine the workload of one GW per county during gun season. Just no way for them to handle many of the calls they receive. 
IMO, GW's operate under the confines of their circumstances( which again, they don't like either) ,have such vast territories to cover and not enough personnel to do so and do the best they can with the cards they are dealt from further up the chain of command.


----------



## beaver

Shad Rap said:


> Damn 15 stands?????..wanna sell any???


There are only a few worth using in my opinion. We'll see if the owners decide to claim them or not. 

What happened was their lease that borders us, was clear cut over the summer. So apparently they thought it would be ok to just move all of their stuff onto us since we still have trees.


----------



## Shad Rap

beaver said:


> There are only a few worth using in my opinion. We'll see if the owners decide to claim them or not.
> 
> What happened was their lease that borders us, was clear cut over the summer. So apparently they thought it would be ok to just move all of their stuff onto us since we still have trees.


I see...and I was half joking about selling them anyway...thought they were from people you didnt know...now it makes sense.


----------



## beaver

I guess technically we don't know, but we know... ya know? Lol

I'm normally not the type to get fired up about people crossing the line a little. However, these particular people are known poachers and these stands were well acrossed the line. 

One was busted a couple years ago for killing 9 deer on opening morning of gun season without tagging a single one. It's hard to tell how much damage they do that isn't caught.


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## ostbucks98

I would like to see an overhaul of the gamewarden system. You shouldn't have to have a 4 year degree to be a game warden. Make it in line with other LEO. Academy for a year and your a gamewarden. Save the 4 year stuff for the higher positions in the dept. This way gamewardens can be the entry level LEO that focuses more on enforcement of ODNR laws/regulations.


----------



## fastwater

Weekender#1 said:


> What did I say, Landowners calling Game Warden/Police about someone on others property. Did caller have power of attorney or documents. No he wants them driving around his property to get a guy that very well might have permission, it is none of his damn business. As you can see in the report the police/GW do not even respond to the guy anymore, think it could be due to constant calls about a car driving past his precious lot. I have seen land owners that can not even enjoy their own land hunting as they are paranoid that someone is trespassing on the other side of someone else's land. It turns ugly with time. You know, you have seen the exact thing.
> Look in the mirror, I hope that is not anyone here.


As a landowner, if I ask my neighbor to keep an eye out on my land and he agrees, then I have made it his business and he has agreed to accept it as his business. And you know what's? I, as the landowner am very thankful for that neighbor/neighbors. Especially when some POS trespasser cut my fence and livestock is running all over the county and that neighbor calls me at work and I have to leave work, drive an hour to get home, round my livestock up praying all the while one of the cows didn't get onto the road causing an accident. Or the herd went through a farmers crop field causing an excessive amount of damage. All of which I am liable for.
Incidentally, hitting a 2000lb steer with your car in the middle of the night usually amounts to a lot more injury and possibly loss of life and $'s for the owner when compared to hitting 'Rover' the city dog that escaped his/her backyard. 
Thankfully I'm retired now and don't have to do the 'drive' part. But nevertheless, still very aggravating. 
Anymore, i carry my cell phone when I'm afield. If I see someone trespassing and can get to them, I snap their pic. I then tell them they are trespassing. Which I'm sure they knew when they crossed the well posted property lines. Regardless, they get that one as a warning. If I catch them coming back, Im headed to the Sheriffs office to file a complaint. Period!
I've caught guys here that I didn't know and have never seen before claiming they shot a deer on neighbors property and it ran on me. No blood or any sign of them trailing a deer and when you asked the name of the neighbor they were hunting on they either don't a name at all or tell you a made up name.
Regardless, they get that one pass and their photo taken for free. 

Again I'm very thankful I have good neighbors for the most part. We watch out for each other. 
That's how we roll in the country.

Oh, and one other thing...when it comes to one of my neighbors filing trespassing charges in my behalf, you're right beaver. They can't. Unless I have rented/ leased my property to them. But if they catch someone on me ,call me and tell me about it (which has happened) I can surely let them look at the pics. of former trespassers and see if the person they saw was a repeat offender. If so, my neighbor will make a great witness in my case against the perp.


----------



## fastwater

beaver said:


> Just had this issue actually. Pulled 15 stands off of our place that weren't ours.
> 
> The GW said that the hunting without permission charge is hard to stick because they have to be caught actually hunting. However, if they admit that they're their stands, a deputy can write them a criminal trespass ticket for each one.
> 
> I doubt I'll go that route, but it's nice to know.


A couple years ago I had an incident in which I caught a guy from Chilicothe(I'm in Fairfield Co.) hammering huge spikes into probably the biggest, straightest, most prestine red oak tree on this property. He had a stand he was gonna put up at top and was gonna use those spikes as his ladder. 
That's a $20,000 tree if it's a $2.00 one. 
I sit and watched him as he carefully pulled every spike out of that tree. 
There's another huge black walnut out there that someone used the screw in steps. Didn't catch that one till it was too late and the tree had grown over a big portion of the step. Actually the OSU extension agent and I found it while going through the woods seeing what trees should be removed and which ones should stay. That tree is mostly ruined as far as ever cutting it for the lumber. Mill won't take it. 
Another $15,000 gone because of some POS.


----------



## beaver

Fastwater, I think you'd be surprised at how difficult it is to actually stick a trespassing charge without a confession. Trust me. It's awful. 

Ostbucks98, you don't need a 4 year degree. You only need an associates, and I believe that you can even substitute that with experience. They're pretty picky in the selection process though. If you make it, you go to the academy where you get your assignment upon graduation. 

The wardens aren't the issue. Trust me, they love to do their job. The administration is the issue. Nowhere near enough wardens to effectively do their jobs and way too many restrictions to do it effectively. 

Years ago, they basically had no restrictions on hours or days. They could create their own schedule to be able to effectively enforce their County. Then they started making them account for the hours on computer with regulated overtime hours. Since their job didn't really have hours, but they had to show hours on computer, they basically just punched 8 hours a day into the system. That's what created the big fiasco of wardens being accused of hunting on the clock, when in reality it was just a flawed system. Now they have to take mandatory days off, and aren't allowed to work any overtime, or do anything outside of their posted hours. It's ridiculous. They can be mowing their grass on their day off and witness someone shoot a deer from the road, and not be able to do a damn thing. 

They basically have to be in the right place at the right time. That's why they focus on stings and decoy deer so much. Whatever it takes to better their odds.


----------



## fastwater

beaver said:


> Fastwater, I think you'd be surprised at how difficult it is to actually stick a trespassing charge without a confession. Trust me. It's awful.
> 
> Ostbucks98, you don't need a 4 year degree. You only need an associates, and I believe that you can even substitute that with experience. They're pretty picky in the selection process though. If you make it, you go to the academy where you get your assignment upon graduation.
> 
> The wardens aren't the issue. Trust me, they love to do their job. The administration is the issue. Nowhere near enough wardens to effectively do their jobs and way too many restrictions to do it effectively.
> 
> Years ago, they basically had no restrictions on hours or days. They could create their own schedule to be able to effectively enforce their County. Then they started making them account for the hours on computer with regulated overtime hours. Since their job didn't really have hours, but they had to show hours on computer, they basically just punched 8 hours a day into the system. That's what created the big fiasco of wardens being accused of hunting on the clock, when in reality it was just a flawed system. Now they have to take mandatory days off, and aren't allowed to work any overtime, or do anything outside of their posted hours. It's ridiculous. They can be mowing their grass on their day off and witness someone shoot a deer from the road, and not be able to do a damn thing.
> 
> They basically have to be in the right place at the right time. That's why they focus on stings and decoy deer so much. Whatever it takes to better their odds.


Exactly right!


----------



## Flathead76

ostbucks98 said:


> I would like to see an overhaul of the gamewarden system. You shouldn't have to have a 4 year degree to be a game warden. Make it in line with other LEO. Academy for a year and your a gamewarden. Save the 4 year stuff for the higher positions in the dept. This way gamewardens can be the entry level LEO that focuses more on enforcement of ODNR laws/regulations.


Almost all of them have a two year degree from Hocking college. Getting into an opening for one of the 88 country jobs is damn near impossible. I have two friends that are game wardens. It took them forever to get into a job. One works as a watercraft officer. Another as a sheriff. The rest of them gave up. Very difficult to get in.


----------



## beaver

Flathead76 said:


> Almost all of them have a two year degree from Hocking college. Getting into an opening for one of the 88 country jobs is damn near impossible. I have two friends that are game wardens. It took them forever to get into a job. One works as a watercraft officer. Another as a sheriff. The rest of them gave up. Very difficult to get in.


Right. You're just "at large" , which means you go wherever they need extra help at on any given day until you gain enough seniority to get one of the 88 counties.... provided one is open as a result of someone retiring, getting promoted, etc.


----------



## fastwater

Flathead76 said:


> Almost all of them have a two year degree from Hocking college. Getting into an opening for one of the 88 country jobs is damn near impossible. I have two friends that are game wardens. It took them forever to get into a job. One works as a watercraft officer. Another as a sheriff. The rest of them gave up. Very difficult to get in.


A sheriff or a GW? And in what country?


----------



## Flathead76

fastwater said:


> A sheriff or a GW? And in what country?


There all up north. Troy is the GW in Henry county. Brian the last I knew was the GW in Sandusky county.


----------



## Flathead76

beaver said:


> Right. You're just "at large" , which means you go wherever they need extra help at on any given day until you gain enough seniority to get one of the 88 counties.... provided one is open as a result of someone retiring, getting promoted, etc.


I forgot about that at large status. Many of them were place on the Maumee river during the run. They do it because they want to protect wildlife. Not for the money. Pretty much a thankless job unless your catching someone who truly deserves it. Plus during hunting season most everyone you run into has a weapon and a knife. Definitely not a job that I would want.


----------



## ostbucks98

Well that's what I'm trying to say is we need to allocate more patrol wardens to police the counties that have the most hunters or more rural.


----------



## beaver

I agree, however our administration apparently thinks we need less wardens and more seat belt cops.


----------



## fastwater

ostbucks98 said:


> Well that's what I'm trying to say is we need to allocate more patrol wardens to police the counties that have the most hunters or more rural.


Bingo!
But that means allocating more $ for that extra man power. remembering the 'pie' theory, and since there's only so much $ allocated for each dept. within the ODNR, that usually means taking $ away from one dept. and giving to another.
The lack of GW's, the obvious work load they have and knowing these GW's cannot possibly adequately respond to the publics demands has been my biggest bases for arguing some of my points such as deer herd size and how to control it here on OGF and elsewhere.
An example of what I'm saying is the thousands of ODNR allocated $'s that is spent every year hiring out of state sharpshooters or paying even local sharpshooters, whether that would be ODNR employees or other LE to go in certain areas( parks) and thin the herd.
While I understand there are some parks that this will have to be done due to housing, liability etc., there are many, many of these parks and properties throughout the state that they could actually make $ instead of spending it by having organized, structured and supervised bow only hunts. Lottery style hunts in which hunters paid an additional fee to hunt. ODNR could easily figure out what one of these hunts would cost as far as supervision goes and set Hunter fees accordingly to pay those expenses. Even if ODNR didn't make a penny and just enough to pay for the event, it sure would beat paying out the thousand they do paying the sharpshooters. Then the $ they saved could be allocated to more GW's.
Several years ago there was a group of us that presented this idea/plan to Mr. Tonkovich along with a statewide list of those areas that this could very easily be done. We also had a figure of about what ODNR had been spending on reducing deer numbers sharpshooting those areas every year. That figure was actually mind boggling. 
Our idea for the most part was not only scoffed at but it was as if he wasn't even interested in hearing any ideas from us or anyone else. He had the attitude that his way was working great and he wasn't even remotely interested in hearing any suggestions that veered from his way. 
Incidently, the idea/plan we presented was actually formed with much input by a couple retired GW's along with a State park Ranger(most likely now retired) . 
And the sad reality is that two of those three people told us prior to presenting this the response we would get even though they worked in the field and thought this was a good idea/plan that could help an already financially struggling ODNR.

Again, remembering there is only X number of tax $'s ODNR gets from the state, 
remembering that that total amount is usually not enough due to the fact that conservation falls way down on the list of 'importance' when it comes to the states budget and allocating tax $'s, 
remembering that then each dept. within ODNR works within its own budget and is allocated a certain percentage of total, 
you would think the powers to be within the ODNR would be a bit more receptive and at least listen to ideas when they are presented ways to possibly make their $'s stretch a bit further. 

To be fair, there are a few very remote areas in which ODNR does have lottery hunts in which bows/guns can be used. But there sure are a lot of other areas in which this could be done. Even if they limit it to bow only.


----------



## fastwater

beaver said:


> I agree, however our administration apparently thinks we need less wardens and more seat belt cops.


With the plan to reduce our statewide deer numbers to the targeted amount (which is succeeding in record time) that's all we are going to need is seat belt cops.
IMO, most likely the very reason ODNR 'powers to be' aren't worried about more GW's. Why put on more per county when the goal is to reduce the deer herd to the point they really don't need any more. Understanding there are more duties to a GW's job than just deer season, deer season is obviously their busiest time, why put on more GW's per county only to have to lay them off or transfer them into other jobs later on.


----------



## beaver

You could do away with every stupid deer in the state and we would still have more work than the current amount of wardens could effectively handle. 

I'd also be interested in seeing what the state spends in sharpshooting. I was under the impression that the majority of those sharp shooters are funded by local municipalities if private, or done by public employees (ODNR, USFWS) anyway. 

I've talked to a few sharpshooters. They hated their jobs. Each and everything they did had to be documented. The local deer lovers did everything from bang pots and pans, to slash tires, to physical threats. They had go be escorted by law enforcement everywhere. They were only allowed head shots and we're constantly on edge watching for safety concerns and watching over their shoulder for the local crazies.


----------



## beaver

... and we could get rid of half the seat belt cops we have now and still get just as much accomplished.


----------



## waterfox

baitguy said:


> *WHAT!!TF,,,??? They can PAY a driver to sit in a van for a 16 hr day!???? 3 days in a row!
> THEY can hire my friends CHARTER for a whole day, & give him a $100 TIP!
> I can't do that!!!*
> 
> the Amish have plenty of $$$ ... they charge as much as anyone for their services but I don't think they pay a lick of taxes, which gives them 30-40% more bang for their buck, hence they can afford to pay those drivers and hire a charter ... many of those drivers are undermotivated folks working for $10 an hour under the table ... they are also no required to follow many of our "Yankee" laws ... not saying it's right, but as Joe Friday would have said ... just the facts man, just the facts


not sticking up form them but the only taxes they don't pay is ss


----------



## Flathead76

I have never heard of the DNR doing sharp shooting ever. I would like to see solid proof that they are doing this. All of the culls that I have ever seen were done by outside companies. Most of them where from out of state. The DNR would issue nuisance permits or suggest that they let more hunters in a problem area. Which letting more hunters in sells tags which increases revenue.


----------



## fastwater

beaver said:


> You could do away with every stupid deer in the state and we would still have more work than the current amount of wardens could effectively handle.
> 
> I'd also be interested in seeing what the state spends in sharpshooting. I was under the impression that the majority of those sharp shooters are funded by local municipalities if private, or done by public employees (ODNR, USFWS) anyway.


Actually much of the sharpshooting is done by state employees including some LE.
But there's a cost for paying those sharpshooters regardless. Many of these sharpshooters are not ODNR employees. But yet they are paid out of ODNR budget for their services. Also, if these sharpshooters are ODNR employees, they are usually being paid overtime since they shoot at night and most likely there regular work time is during the day. Again, money out of the overall ODNR budget. And yes, there have been instances in which ODNR paid private companies to come in and do the killing. In those instances the only state funded wildlife, ODNR people there were those doing the recording of deer killed and those collecting the deer.

I don't have my notes anymore that we put together for the meeting that included figures. I may be able to get ahold of a few of the guys that were involved to see if they still have any of that data. If I can...I'll post it. 

One thing to remember is that these exspenses are not one time expenses. They are exspenses that the state has every year.
So if you can trim those exspenses...and in the process, use hunters that would pay to do the task rather then having to pay to get the same task done...all the while freeing up some very needed $ for other areas, why not do it. Or at least take the time to listen to suggestions. 
Mr. Tonkovich once made the statement similar to ' if I keep half the hunters mad and half the farmers mad, I'm doing my job'. With his attitude and unwillingness in the meeting to even listen to the whole idea/plan, let alone give it some thought, IMO, he takes pride in that saying. He sure pissed a lot of people off that day by blowing everyone off. What was supposed to be a public meeting in which people could engage in what's going on and have comments ended up being nothing but a meeting in which he spoke and said what was going on and that's it.


----------



## fastwater

Flathead76 said:


> I have never heard of the DNR doing sharp shooting ever. I would like to see solid proof that they are doing this. All of the culls that I have ever seen were done by outside companies. Most of them where from out of state. The DNR would issue nuisance permits or suggest that they let more hunters in a problem area. Which letting more hunters in sells tags which increases revenue.


With some 83 state parks in this state and only 34 allowing hunting, how do you think they control the numbers in non hunting parks?

Have a conversation about it with those you know at ODNR. It's not a big secret. Widely publicly publicized, no. And the reason it's not is to keep crap like this down as much as possible:

https://www.change.org/p/reform-ohi...hunting-and-culling-in-ohio-parks-and-suburbs


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## Flathead76

In nw Ohio they have lotteries and draws for hunts like that. In the Metroparks they hired sharpshooters to wipe them out. Last year they shot out around 190 deer just in oak openings with sharp shooters. This year the Metroparks are going to do the same thing in swan creek. They also had draws in both of these areas where bow hunters got to hunt in stand specific areas over placed bait. Even in the little areas they have lotteries for bow hunters. This year they had a first time bow hunters to cull deer out of Ottawa hills. Last I checked they killed 27 deer out of there. Thier goal was 30 deer for the year. They must be doing things like you posted around areas like Columbus or other areas because I have never heard of that kind of activity from our DNR.


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## ostbucks98

Create $13 hr dnr patrol jobs. They would easily cover their salary with ticket proceeds


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## beaver

Would you risk your life for $13 an hour?


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## Flathead76

beaver said:


> Would you risk your life for $13 an hour?


Hell to the no.


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## beaver

There are plenty of wasteful spendings that could be cut to pay for more warden salaries.


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## baitguy

there's lots of wasteful spending on every level of government that could be much better spent ...


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## beaver

baitguy said:


> there's lots of wasteful spending on every level of government that could be much better spent ...


Agreed.


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## fastwater

baitguy said:


> there's lots of wasteful spending on every level of government that could be much better spent ...


Absolutely!
Saw 33yrs of it in 3 levels...city, state and fed. Seems to be worse the higher up it goes.


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## Shad Rap

beaver said:


> Would you risk your life for $13 an hour?


People do it everyday...gotta do what you have to do...sometimes theres not much of a choice...I wouldnt do it but I also have the pleasure of not having to do it.


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## beaver

Right, and how many of those people are qualified to do their job? I don't know what you do for a living or what you get paid, but I'm sure I can find someone to do it (or attempt to do it) for half the salary. However, that doesn't mean they should be doing it. It's a lot easier to not give a crap about an already thankless job, when you can walk off of it and find the same pay and benefits anywhere else.


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## ostbucks98

About 70% of Deputy Sheriffs in the state make that or even less.I don't think its right but it is what it is.


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## beaver

And about 99% of deputy sherrifs don't have to go through half of the training that wildlife officers do in order to get the job. I'm not taking anything away from the job of a deputy, I know they have to deal with just as much crap as any law enforcement. However, usually all that is required for a deputy is an opota certificate. A wildlife officer requires an associate degree or equivalent, and around 9 months of academy at a minimum.


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## bobk

No way 70% of the sheriff department makes 27,000.


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## beaver

You have to figure that a good amount of deputies are either auxiliary part time or work as correction officers in the county jails. They don't get the same salary as road deputies.


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## ostbucks98

Yeah beaver if you read my above post you'll see where I'm saying make it easier to be a Dnr patrol officer to ride around and enforce game laws. The game warden can be the same as a Sheriff if you will and have a few deputies on patrol.

Auxiliary officers usually work for free...fyi


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## beaver

Right, they work for free to keep their certification active by holding a commission. I was just saying that a lot of the deputies across the state are auxiliary. Using my County as an example, the majority is auxiliary. There are very few full time road deputies here. I don't know where you got your number of 70%, but didn't know if that was figured in.

I read your above posts. I understand what you're saying. However, the laws that they deal with aren't the same laws that are normally taught with a basic opota course. They would still need a separate course and training in wildlife specific laws and enforcement. There is a lot more to enforcing the law than knowing an orc code and writing a ticket. What I'm saying is that adding more officers with less training and minimal pay for the job, would cause just as many problems as solutions. I think the answer is to send more funds to the wildlife enforcement division, even if that takes away from other agencies that are over funded (like the state patrol).


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## MassillonBuckeye

About those deer drives. We're completely off topic.


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## MassillonBuckeye

Let the deer drives die a dignified death and start another thread if we want to talk about state workers or whatever.


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## snag

MassillonBuckeye said:


> About those deer drives. We're completely off topic.



Back to the hunting topic, this weekends 2nd season up north will probaly be a bigger increase on the kill with snow cover now, they will have a field day with snow.


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## baitguy

glad I'm not going to be out there sitting in a tree in the single digit temps this weekend, the deer might not even move for 3 days


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## ostbucks98

Supposed to be 40 degrees by the weekend


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## beaver

I'd rather be duck hunting, but I'll leave it up to my boy as to which one we do this weekend. He likes to duck hunt as much as I do, and the 2nd split opener is this weekend as well. I'm hoping he wants me to take him after some ducks, but he's also not killed a deer yet so we'll see.


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## Weekender#1

We do not need more cops,...game wardens, more overtime. It is a little club for those that are in. Drain the swamp


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## baitguy

weather babe in cleveland says close to zero thursday nite/fri morn, coule get some snow, then low to mid 20's this weekend ...


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## bobk

baitguy said:


> glad I'm not going to be out there sitting in a tree in the single digit temps this weekend, the deer might not even move for 3 days


If it's cold they will be moving even more. It's all about the belly this time of year. Colder the better as far as I'm concerned. I really enjoy the late season hunting. When the snow squeaks when your walking on it the deer will be moving.


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## fastwater

bobk said:


> If it's cold they will be moving even more. It's all about the belly this time of year. Colder the better as far as I'm concerned. I really enjoy the late season hunting. When the snow squeaks when your walking on it the deer will be moving.


Absolutely!

Have killed some of my best bucks in some of the most inclement weather. Looks like Sat. Morning may be a good morning. Hope this snow stays on the ground till then. Gonna turn that Encore loose.


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## one3

Lewis said:


> I didn't participate in gun season at all this year since I took my buck with a bow.
> I spent a lot of time keeping an eye on my property for trespassers as well as taking a few cruises along some county roads near my property.
> 
> During one of these county road cruises I saw 2 crew cab pickups with 6 guys in each cab and another 6 to 8 guys riding in each truck bed pull into a property that joins mine. It's probably a safe bet that they are doing this to multiple properties.
> This particular property just sold and I know they don't have permission to be there.
> 
> Well, a half hour later all hell broke loose. I must of heard 35 shots. Many of them rapid fire unloading of their guns. I just shook my head and thought, how the hell can that be called hunting?
> To me, not all, but some of these drives smacks of selfish he man bulls$it, getting a deer no matter how, game hogging and shows no respect for the resource.
> 
> I feel so fortunate to have my own place to hunt, but I feel absolutely terrible for the hunters who are forced to hunt marginal public land and then have to deal with deer drives.
> I spend hundreds of dollars a year on supplemental feed and lots of time creating habitat to hold deer on my property. This saves quite a few from the orange army.
> 
> I guess I'm not totally opposed to a small, well orchestrated drive, but to those who do participate in drives, there are many, many instances of extermination squads giving hunters a bad reputation.
> 
> As far as camaraderie goes, I can appreciate that. I have participated in many Ohio gun seasons.
> We all had a great time over dinner, around a campfire or back at our campers in the evening sharing stories of failure and success, but we all hunted solo.


Lewis, I like what you said I do not like deer drives, AT ALL .To me deer drives Is not going by fair chase.


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## beaver

one3 said:


> Lewis, I like what you said I do not like deer drives, AT ALL .To me deer drives Is not going by fair chase.


What about hunting pheasants with a dog? How about jump shooting ducks? Using beagles to run rabbits? 

Are those methods "not going by fair chase " also? I assume the reason you have came to that conclusion is because the deer are manipulated (driven) away from their usual and natural course of action (to the standers if goes as planned). If that's the case, then any of the above mentioned widely accepted methods , along with countless others, also fit into that category. The dog finds and stops the pheasant until you're ready to flush it, the ducks are flushed from their resting place to awaiting shooters, and the rabbit is found and ran by the hounds until it is forced into the open for a shot.


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## one3

beaver said:


> What about hunting pheasants with a dog? How about jump shooting ducks? Using beagles to run rabbits?
> 
> Are those methods "not going by fair chase " also? I assume the reason you have came to that conclusion is because the deer are manipulated (driven) away from their usual and natural course of action (to the standers if goes as planned). If that's the case, then any of the above mentioned widely accepted methods , along with countless others, also fit into that category. The dog finds and stops the pheasant until you're ready to flush it, the ducks are flushed from their resting place to awaiting shooters, and the rabbit is found and ran by the hounds until it is forced into the open for a shot.


well, that my be how rabbits , ducks , pheasants are hunted. never heard of any one going into a field and standing there wating for one of those to come to him.


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## Long&Low

"I've been on and around thousands of deer drives and have never been in fear of my safety or my hunting companions well being. Done correctly drivers rarely make deer run, in fact we refer to drives as a "push". The object of a drive is to move deer in a strategic manner not run them in every direction.
I've shot many deer as a driver and stander, some of which were nibbling browse.
I'm certain some drives are "cluster flops" but how many "hail mary"shots are taken by guys still hunting, stand hunting or just exiting the woods ? A good safe shot is just that, a good safe shot, regardless the method of hunting."


Aren't too many fender benders in hunting accidents, once hit the outcome is fairly limited......


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## chris1162

Long&Low said:


> "I've been on and around thousands of deer drives and have never been in fear of my safety or my hunting companions well being. Done correctly drivers rarely make deer run, in fact we refer to drives as a "push". The object of a drive is to move deer in a strategic manner not run them in every direction.
> I've shot many deer as a driver and stander, some of which were nibbling browse.
> I'm certain some drives are "cluster flops" but how many "hail mary"shots are taken by guys still hunting, stand hunting or just exiting the woods ? A good safe shot is just that, a good safe shot, regardless the method of hunting."
> 
> 
> Aren't too many fender benders in hunting accidents, once hit the outcome is fairly limited......


Thousands of drives?? Really?


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## garhtr

chris1162 said:


> Thousands of drives?? Really?


Really , I'm in my 60's and that's how I hunt -Bow, Shotgun, M/Loader and rifle.
I've hunted multiple states including Minn,Wisconsin. N Hampshire, Vermont and Maine, Kentucky and Ohio.
Some days we will make 8- 10 drives a day-- you do the math.


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## garhtr

[QUOTE="Long&Low, post: 2262631, member: 54771""
Aren't too many fender benders in hunting accidents, once hit the outcome is fairly limited......[/QUOTE]
Nobody's getting shot ! I hear how dangerous deer hunting is but when I check the Ohio hunter accident and injury report every season it seems everyone comes out un-scathed. Hunting continues to be one of if not the safest outdoor activities.
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## beaver

one3 said:


> well, that my be how rabbits , ducks , pheasants are hunted. never heard of any one going into a field and standing there wating for one of those to come to him.


My favorite pastime is decoying and calling ducks. I cut my teeth tracking rabbits and pheasants in the snow and catching them sitting in the brush with my .22lr/.410 savage over under. Both of these are also accepted alternatives to hunting the above mentioned species. Just like sitting in a stand, tracking, and driving are all accepted methods of hunting deer. I don't understand how one can be fair chase and the other not? What about baiting, or mock scrapes, rattling antlers, etc? Are they fair chase or not? What makes one method fair chase and not the other?


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## garhtr

I have to agree with beaver and I think driving deer is also a generational and regional thing. In many if the northern states driving was the way you hunted and many hunters rarely if ever sat on stands ,maybe after the last drive of the day hunters would stand hunt the last half- hour of light.
When I started Hunting it was buck 
( most states) only and there weren't great numbers of deer in most areas. I don't think my grandfather ever shot a doe in his life time. The only way many hunted was drives and tracking in fresh snow and those hunters possessed the skills to kill deer even when there weren't many.
Driving and tracking are pretty much lost arts because today it's too easy to kill deer -- sit in any tree and wait. 
Good luck and Good Hunting !


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## Pooch

Tree stands,drives, stalking/still hunting, sitting in a blind, heck even sitting on the porch or out the kitchen window. Who cares. To each is Thier own. If you bought a tag or are able to landowner tag. Get your deer and who cares how the other guy gets his. Everyone uses the term fair chase, lol. I never came across a deer shouldering a shotgun. So in the end is any method fair chase. Get your deer however you enjoy doing it. I will. And nobody's opinions will ever change that.
As long as it's legal.


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## roundheadjig

kayak1979 said:


> Took this photo during gun season and it was hilarious watching the one guy direct and point to everyone like he was the conductor to an orchestra. Not even an hour or so later they were already gone. Some of the guys were smoking cigs too and all I could do was laugh. So I took this photo with my Nikon @Lundy and made a meme from it. =)
> 
> View attachment 225075


These poor guys only get seven days to tag one deer.


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## ostbucks98

I find the pic funny but I'm thinking I would be down for joining those guys. Looks like a good bunch to hunt with.


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## dwa66

We will do a small drive towards the last couple afternoons of hunting. We have 4 or 5 guys , we set a few up at points and then have a few walk / push through an area. I truly can say it hasn't ever increased our harvest odds.Only taken a few through out the years. most of the time the deer are too far an head of us or going like a rocket, so we watch them run.


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## roundheadjig

Pooch said:


> Tree stands,drives, stalking/still hunting, sitting in a blind, heck even sitting on the porch or out the kitchen window. Who cares. To each is Thier own. If you bought a tag or are able to landowner tag. Get your deer and who cares how the other guy gets his. Everyone uses the term fair chase, lol. I never came across a deer shouldering a shotgun. So in the end is any method fair chase. Get your deer however you enjoy doing it. I will. And nobody's opinions will ever change that.
> As long as it's legal.


I would like to get my deer and have more than one week to do so.


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## roundheadjig

supercanoe said:


> I've called the game warden several times on illegal deer drives on our neighboring property. It is the same scenario each time. Truckload of guys pulls up at the North gate, everyone jumps out of the truck bed and starts pushing to the standers on the South end of property, the truck takes off so no vehicles are left in view of the road. There is no hunting allowed on this property. The owners asked me to watch it and call the law on any hunters or atv trespassers. My calls were either not returned, or I was told that there was nothing the GW could do. I explained to the GW that I had eyes on the trespassers while talking to him. It didn't seem to matter to him.


He knows you don't own the property........


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## beaver

Exactly. If you want something done, call the landowner and then the landowner can call. You have no legal authority over someone else's property and the warden isn't going to waste his time to come out to have his hands tied in the law.


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## Shad Rap

roundheadjig said:


> I would like to get my deer and have more than one week to do so.


You do...you have 4 months!!!!


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## sherman51

very interesting opinions here. I like the old fashioned way of hunting. I like to scout and find good deer sigh then set up my stand and hope I'm there at the right time. I don't care for drives it takes the hunting out of the hunt. but it is legal and done correctly by others it doesn't bother me that much.(but then I don't care for baiting deer) its when the guys on stand shoots his deer then shoots deer for the drivers that really bothers me. this way of hunting is illegal and should not be done. but there's really no way to stop it. I don't take moving shots unless the deer is close and moving slow and I cant get it to stop. I use to just whistle to get the deer to stop. but then I got my upper teeth pulled and lost my whistle. now I just go blaaaaa and it works better than my whistle. it'll stop deer most times unless there really spooked. one time I had 2 deer about 80 or 90 yrds that was moving fast and wouldn't stop. so I yelled HEY DEER as loud as I could. they stopped and gave me a shot. but in all the excitement I missed. I did shoot 1 deer that was trotting in front of me at 10 yrds. I put the cross hairs on its front shoulder and pulled the trigger. the bullet hit the back part of the lungs. I think anyone who takes a running shot at any distance is a slob hunter and shouldn't be hunting.

then there is that 10% that will take any shot they can get thinking if they hit the deer there going to kill it. they just don't know or don't care just how tough it is to kill them. if you don't hit vitals the deer will live for hours and travel a long distance. I was hunting in my stand when I seen this deer coming towards me. it was walking on 3 legs as the one leg had been shot. I thought about letting it go but decided to take it out. I shot it then waited about 1/2 hour to see if anyone was tracking it. when no one showed up I got down and started dressing it out. I was about half way done cleaning it when 2 hunters showed up tracking it in the snow. the guy that had shot the deer asked where the deer was hit. I told him in the front leg, and the deer would probably have survived the wound or died a slow death, or the yotes would have got her. he thanked me for shooting the deer and putting it out of its misery, and went on his way.
sherman


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## sherman51

garhtr said:


> [QUOTE="Long&Low, post: 2262631, member: 54771""
> Aren't too many fender benders in hunting accidents, once hit the outcome is fairly limited......


Nobody's getting shot ! I hear how dangerous deer hunting is but when I check the Ohio hunter accident and injury report every season it seems everyone comes out un-scathed. Hunting continues to be one of if not the safest outdoor activities.
Good luck and Good Hunting ![/QUOTE]
most hunting accidents are tree stand related. even with all the crazies out there in the woods or driving down the road in there trucks road hunting very few people get shot.
sherman


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## supercanoe

roundheadjig said:


> He knows you don't own the property........


So if the land owner is an absentee land owner it is OK to trespass when they are not there?


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## beaver

No, but you can't file a complaint on an alleged charge. For all he knows , those people are allowed to be there and you're just being a nosey neighbor. Then He would be harassing hunters, when he could be somewhere else doing actual good. 

I know you said your neighbor asked you to keep an eye, but fact is unless he gives you some sort of legal authority over it or maybe calls your warden and explains the situation, you can't expect them to waste their time. They get a lot of people who call every time they see a hunter simply because they don't like hunters. They obviously can't respond to all of them and don't want to just go around harassing legal hunters. 

I've dealt with the same thing but backwards. My grandma used to live down the road from me. She had nothing better to do than watch my house. It was sweet, but annoying. I sent my girlfriend to my house once to let the dogs out when I was held up at work and grandma called the police because she didn't recognize the car. She didn't call me and ask, and I didn't think to let her know. They weren't happy when they figured out it was just a mistake and a waste of their time. 

Like I said, you're best bet is to call the landowner and have them call the complaint in, or give the warden a heads up before season.


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## roundheadjig

beaver said:


> No, but you can't file a complaint on an alleged charge. For all he knows , those people are allowed to be there and you're just being a nosey neighbor. Then He would be harassing hunters, when he could be somewhere else doing actual good.
> 
> I know you said your neighbor asked you to keep an eye, but fact is unless he gives you some sort of legal authority over it or maybe calls your warden and explains the situation, you can't expect them to waste their time. They get a lot of people who call every time they see a hunter simply because they don't like hunters. They obviously can't respond to all of them and don't want to just go around harassing legal hunters.
> 
> I've dealt with the same thing but backwards. My grandma used to live down the road from me. She had nothing better to do than watch my house. It was sweet, but annoying. I sent my girlfriend to my house once to let the dogs out when I was held up at work and grandma called the police because she didn't recognize the car. She didn't call me and ask, and I didn't think to let her know. They weren't happy when they figured out it was just a mistake and a waste of their time.
> 
> Like I said, you're best bet is to call the landowner and have them call the complaint in, or give the warden a heads up before season.


Well allot has been said . IMO the only deer killed are the stupid deer , they ride home on the truck . All the smart deer are still in the woods........lol Happy hunting!


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## Ethical hunter

fastwater said:


> Not exactly.
> Actually you pointing out the very little public land there is, versus the thousands that are trying to use it, is even more the reason deer drives should be made illegal on public lands. Gonna add that I don't think its gonna get any better. No more land is being made and less and less public land available. Won't be but a couple years this state will be like many others like Texas in which if you don't lease land to hunt...you just won't hunt. Yet another reason private land owners really need to plant food plots etc. for wildlife.
> 
> The majority of your response and the activities you've mentioned about baiting, sense It's illegal to do those activities on public land, I'm assuming you are referring to doing them on private land. Again, my comments in this thread have never been made regarding private land. Just public...where my activities affect directly others that have the right to that public land just as I do. Goes back to my earlier point that just cause something may be legal to do, doesn't always make it right when it comes to common courtesy of others.
> 
> IMO, this baiting topic that's been dragged into a thread about driving deer is like as you said earlier about the Amish... ' deserves its own thread'. And like you said about an Amish thread...would most likely get closed as well.
> 
> And by the way, you are right about re-directing deer on private land with baiting. But I assure you, baiting is far from the only way. I've redirected plenty of deer creating thickets, strategically cutting tree lines, piling brush creating choke points etc.


It could simply be settled with the fact that it is illegal or unlawful to interrupt a hunters hunt and i would think that law would trump all deer drives on public land. As far as private land...well its private...


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## ironman172

I stay out of my woods all summer till the start of the season, so I don't push any deer using it or starting residency.... why ruin it, till I can harvest my limit
Plus , poison ivy, ticks, skeeters ..... who needs it


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## Yeada

roundheadjig said:


> Well allot has been said . IMO the only deer killed are the stupid deer , they ride home on the truck . All the smart deer are still in the woods........lol Happy hunting!











Middle of downtown Akron today-how smart are these guys


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## M.Magis

This thread is over 4 years old. Going to assume the one who revived it is a troll.


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## fastwater

M.Magis said:


> This thread is over 4 years old. Going to assume the one who revived it is a troll.


Doubt it!!!
More like a new member that's hasn't yet learned that the Recommended Reading threads at the bottom of all the pages are older thread just meant for reading and not responding to.
Those threads have got a lot of seasoned members...and a whole lot more new members.
And before someone pipes in with "change it so those threads can't be responded to"...that was tried and it's above a moderators pay grade to do so.


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## M.Magis

fastwater said:


> Doubt it!!!
> More like a new member that's hasn't yet learned that the Recommended Reading threads at the bottom of all the pages are older thread just meant for reading and not responding to.
> Those threads have got a lot of seasoned members...and a whole lot more new members.
> And before someone pipes in with "change it so those threads can't be responded to"...that was tried and it's above a moderators pay grade to do so.


I was referring more to their user name. I doubt its a coincidence.


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## Shad Rap

M.Magis said:


> I was referring more to their user name. I doubt its a coincidence.


Yep, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out...


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