# Black Powder Sabots experiences



## LEfriend (Jun 14, 2009)

Well, I got lots of different - and useful - opinions on cleaning, so might as well ask the same on sabots. Going to a new rifled 50 cal inline (Traditions xl) so will be moving on from my old thompson center smooth bore and buffalo bullets to sabots.

Curious...have looked at various Hornady's, PowerBelt, and Thompson Center sabots. A local gun shop is recommending to me Saber Tooth Belted copper clad lead bullets. 

Curious as to your experiences and pro's and con's of the different options. Realize it is somewhat specific to the gun...just figuring out where to start sighting her in.

My manual recommends 250 grain at 100 grams Triple 7 powder. That is where I will start. Most of my shots are usually under 100 yards, mostly 50-70.


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## ski (May 13, 2004)

I shoot a T/C black diamond 50cal. I shoot a 240grain with 2/50(100 total) gr powder. I have used HornadyXTP or T/C. Whatever I'm using, I buy the combo packages that are cheaper and contain 20-30 bullets and sabots.

Very accurate to 100yds. Have not shot it any farther.

ski


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## BassBlaster (Jun 8, 2006)

Ive always had good luck with the Thompason Center Shock Waves and the Hornady XTP,. If you wanna save some money, dont buy the little packs that contain both the bullet and sabot. Go to the reloading section of the store and buy the bullets, 45 cal for a 50 cal muzzle loader and whatever sabot you prefer. Just make sure to buy the right size sabot for the bullet size you get. I believe the Shock Waves are actually a Hornady bullet as well. This will cut your cost in half.

Experiment with several different bullets though. Every gun is differnt. Personally, id stay away from the Powerbelts though. I have never been able to get them to shoot consistent and they are WAY over priced!

Also, if you wind up going with a Shock Wave type bullet with the polymer tip, make sure to buy the proper end for your starter and ram rod so you dont mess up the tip of the bullet and affect your accuracy.


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## shorebound (Apr 26, 2008)

I shoot the shock waves tried the "normal"(black sabots) the super glides and the bonded the super glides were nice to load but didnt pattern all that well the bonded were more money and shot as well as the "normal" shock waves I've only missed one deer and that was due to a sapp king that got in the way(it was hiding behind my crosshairs) I would stick with the 250grain and buy them in the reloading section as mentioned before 


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

bassblaster gave you some real good advice. you want to try several different types or untill you find the one that likes your gun. i like the cva slick loads myself. they load easy and shoot good in my t/c. and they make a huge exit hole.

my son and his wife both shoot the powerbelts in there guns and get great results. but they didnt do as good in my gun. it just seem like each gun has bullits they like. thats the way its been for me anyway.

i also like shooting the magnum loads in my gun also. i like to use 3 of the 50 grn pellits of tripple 7. shoots real good for me. i sight in about 1 in high at 50 yrds, that puts me about 3 in high at 100 yrds. then they start dropping. but i like to pratice at 50 yrds. as long as your shooting thats the most important thing. and i,ll usely take some longer shots, but if im hitting my target at 50 yrds im confident taking longer shots. good luck.
sherman


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## saugeyesam (Apr 20, 2004)

Hornady XTP in .45 cal , green sabot cup 2 50 grain triple 7 or pyrodex pellets. I have shot deer well past 150 yards with this load and it knocks them stiff. I'm using a T/C Encore 209x50 

I have found that the Shockwave and Powerbelts and most of the other "novelty" bullets as I like to call them just don't perform anywhere near the level as the XTP's . I also recommend buying bullets, powder and sabots in bulk you'll definitely save bookoo bucks in the long run. I've been shooting on the same box of bullets, sabots and powder for four years. I shoot 3 rounds to check my zero before the season then load 5 speed loaders which usually is enough for gun week & sometimes Muzzle Loader season as well.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

I have shot power belts for a long time and would like to get away from them.. To much $$$$. If I switch to a 45cal in a sabot from a 50 cal powerbelts Is the knock down power less? 

By the way the info on this thread is very useful, Thanks.

PS: I stoped using triple 7 it goes bad in a year. I had 2 boxes go bad.. I went back to the dirtier py.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

I use hornady sabots with a 240 gr jsp. same bullet i load for my 44 rem mag. good groups out to 125, as far as i shoot it.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

I switched from Hornady 250 grain SST to TC BONDED 250 grain shock waves last year. The Hornady SSTs had the copper jacket separate on every deer I have shot and less than desirable penetration. 
Using the bonded bullets the copper does not separate and I get much better penetration with complete pass through. 

The first target is using the TC shockwaves with the supplied yellow sabots 4 shots at 100 yards with a 15MPH crosswind.

The second target I switched only the sabots (a suggestion from capt.scott) to Harvester crush ribs, 4 shots at 100 yards. As you can see, the crush rib sabots made a huge difference in the group.

110 grains of Blackhorn 209 using Winchester W209 primers.


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

BigV, what rifle do you shoot? I have a similar groups out of my Encore and would like better. I like everything about the bonded shockwaves and was wondering what I could do.


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## fireline (Jun 14, 2007)

I use to shoot the XTP 44 240 gr with the T/C pink 2 piece sabot and 90 gr triple 7 with great success, the bullets opened up very well and didn't come apart, but my groups opened up past 100yd, I then tried the 250 gr shock wave in 45 cal with the 1 piece I think Harvester sabots and had very good groups at 150 yards with 100gr triple 7, the only draw back is they don't expand very much, both were shot out of a T/C Thunder Hawk.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

powerstrokin73 said:


> BigV, what rifle do you shoot? I have a similar groups out of my Encore and would like better. I like everything about the bonded shockwaves and was wondering what I could do.


TC Omega.


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

I'm gonna have to get me some to try. Did you order them off line? I tried to find a local vender on their site, but I couldn't find any.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

powerstrokin73 said:


> I'm gonna have to get me some to try. Did you order them off line? I tried to find a local vender on their site, but I couldn't find any.


I just picked up 200 at the Sportsman Den in Shelby. That's all they had.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Bass blaster... I went to bass pro to day and looked at the packs of Hornady in the reload section It was 50 rounds for $26 + $14 for the sabots.. that = around $40... .Then I looked at the Hornady 250 grain SST and they were $32 for 40 rounds. So the savings were at a min. if any.. maybe more if I bought 100 Rounds.

My question is are the Hornady 250 grain SST a desent round????


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## saugeyesam (Apr 20, 2004)

wildman said:


> I have shot power belts for a long time and would like to get away from them.. To much $$$$. If I switch to a 45cal in a sabot from a 50 cal powerbelts Is the knock down power less?
> 
> By the way the info on this thread is very useful, Thanks.
> 
> PS: I stoped using triple 7 it goes bad in a year. I had 2 boxes go bad.. I went back to the dirtier py.


You don't lose any knock down power. I was very disappointed in the performance of the shockwaves, powerbelts, and SST's. I started out using the XTP's in 240 grn and then I heard how awesome these other bullets were so I tried them and now have gone back to the XTP's. If it ain't broke don't fix it, those XTP's expand perfectly, penetrate more than adequately and are just plain deadly. I have shot deer well out to and past 150 yards with this load and they performed the same as if it were 50 yards. I order mine from Graf & Sons and can usually get a much better deal than buying them from the local gun shop.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

wildman said:


> My question is are the Hornady 250 grain SST a desent round????


I used the Hornady SST in my TC Omega for a couple of years. They shot well. These are copper plated lead bullets and are not bonded. I had problems with the copper jacket separating on impact then the lead flattens out. That being the case I did not get good penetration and no pass through. With the bonded bullets (TC shock waves) I get great penetration and pass through on every deer I have shot. I would recommend either bonded or solid copper bullets.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

The bullet performance is going to vary depending on the speeds you are pushing them.

I have been using my Savage Muzzle loaders for the last few years and the velocities have eliminated some bullets for use.

The XTP's work great in most MZ's but if pushed too fast, Savage speeds , close shots are a problem. 

The 250 shockwaves and SST, same bullet did not perform well at all, they would all fragment at the faster velocities. These bullets seem to work very well in guns using 80-130 gr, T7 or Pyrodex, etc. These are what my buddy shoots from his Omega with great success. STAY OFF SHOULDER SHOTS, especially at close range. The 300 gr Shockwaves stay together much better

Powerbelts, forget about it

Barnes Expanders are in my opinion the best muzzleloader bullet going. They work at all velocities from the standard black powder substitutes at 1600-2100 FPS and the faster Savage speeds in my 45's of 2700 FPS. I used these from my Knights for years with Pyrodex and T7 and never had a concern about performance. Shoulder shot are not a problem at any distance.

















You are only taking one shot why not use a quality bullet.

I shot the .451 250 gr with great sucess from my 50's with Pryrodex select 110 gr.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/muzzleloader/expander-mz/

You can save a bunch of money buy doing your load developement and initial sighting in by using the XTP's and then do a final set with the bullet you plan to hunt with. No sense throwing expensive bullets down range as you get a gun set up. The difference will be minimal and when you make the switch, 4-5 shots should have you zeroed for your hunting bullet

Just my opinion


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## DAVELEE (Apr 19, 2004)

just an option i dont think to many people have heard of... i shoot lightfield sabots in my shotgun for deer and have a lot of success with those so i checked their website and they offer a muzzleloader sabot as well. last year i bought a pack of them (alpha 300) and tried them in my gun and was very impressed with performance. in the pack you get 14 sabots and a jag for your ramrod so you dont deform the bullet when you load it. for target shooting the pattern i got was unbelievably repeatable and i dropped a big 8 point in its tracks last season (only deer i have shot with these), so i am plesed with the stopping power as well. lightfield will sell them directly on the web but the shipping is a little high, if you buy from sportsmansguide the sabots are a buck higher but the shipping is better.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

LEfriend,

Here a write up on MZ bullets and sabots you might find interesting

http://www.chuckhawks.com/best_muzzleloading_bullet.htm


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

I used to use the 295gr powerbelt hollow points. Decent groups but only decent. Tried these new sabot bullet combos and showed definite improvement.


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## BassBlaster (Jun 8, 2006)

wildman said:


> Bass blaster... I went to bass pro to day and looked at the packs of Hornady in the reload section It was 50 rounds for $26 + $14 for the sabots.. that = around $40... .Then I looked at the Hornady 250 grain SST and they were $32 for 40 rounds. So the savings were at a min. if any.. maybe more if I bought 100 Rounds.
> 
> My question is are the Hornady 250 grain SST a desent round????


No differnce. Both of those come to $.80 per round. Back when I was purchasing the bullets and sabots packaged together they were roughly $20 per 15 rounds so there was signifigant saving going the other route. Guess they have come down since then.

I have no experience with that bullet. I love Hornady ammo but IMO the best bullet from them is the XTP. Those are by far my favorite. Back when I reloaded for my .44 Mag, I used the XTP's also. They shoot great, they expand great and they drop deer dead in thier tracks!!


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## Skarfer (Jan 27, 2006)

First and foremost - check with what your gun manu recommends for sabots.........I have a CVA wolf - and it tells you right in the owners manual the preferred sabots are powerbelts. 

I didn't find this out till after I bought the TC aftershocks - which slide down in the plastic jacket. I found out after shooting these and not being happy with my groups and ease of reloading - that these TC aftershocks actually leave plastic residue inside your barrel after firing - causing a build up and therefore makes it harder and harder to reload after every shot.

With that being said - I have been EXTREMELY happy with the Powerbelts. Matter of fact, I just bought 2 packs of the new aerolites........

I am now grouping quarter size shots at 100yds.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

Skarfer said:


> these TC aftershocks actually leave plastic residue inside your barrel after firing - causing a build up and therefore makes it harder and harder to reload after every shot.


You are correct in your statement that plastic builds up when shooting sabots. 
However, this build-up occurs over time. It would not occur to the point of making it harder to load after after several shots. Even after 30 or 40 shots the build-up would be minimal and NOT cause loading problems. 

You are ALSO getting plastic build-up from the plastic skirt when you shoot Powerbelts as well as copper build-up from the copper jackets.

There are several cleaners that will rid your barrel of plastic and copper build-up.


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## Huntinbull (Apr 10, 2004)

It is the powder residue and carbon that causes loading to get harder and harder. Carbon can build up to unloadable levels in only 5-10 shots. Plastic can start to affect accuracy after 15-30 shots, but not to effect ease of loading.


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## firemanstevec34 (Apr 14, 2008)

Barnes Spitfire TMZ bullets, harvester crush rib sabots and 110 grains of Blackhorn 209. 1.5 inch three shot group @ 100 yds. Also the cleanest burning powder I have ever seen. Shooting it in a T/C Triumph. Also, no need to swab between shots.


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## billk (Feb 2, 2008)

http://muzzleloadingbullets.com/

Using the 195gr 40cal QT spitzers in my 209-50 Omega on top of 120grs 777. They shoot very well. MV is around 2100fps. Can't say how well they actually work on a deer cuz i've yet to shoot at one with it.


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## jfarkas (Apr 14, 2008)

I bought a TC 50 cal Encore Pro Hunter and started with 150 grains of powder and 300 grain Hornady Sabots(The ones with the plastic casing and the plastic stick thingy to hold the powder pellets. They were HORRIBLE with my gun. I then dropped to 100 grain of powder with no luck. I switched to 100 grain powder with the TC Sabots(Those new ones with the yellow plastic casing and I am dead on now.


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## dakotaman (Oct 19, 2005)

What I use I can't say I have ever heard anyone really use. I shoot Nosler SHOTS sabots and bullets (250 gr.) out of a .50 CVA optima pro. I have had unbeliveable results with these as far as accuracy and it's effects on game. The bullets expand well, penetrate, and leave at times excellent exit wounds. Most deer drop at impact. I use 100 gr 777 pellets, and 777 primers. 
I started with Powerbelts and on three deer never got full penetration and found 2 of three bullets within the deer. Both under the far side skin. Neither of the two expanded even a little bit, just deformed or bent, yet both retained mass and the jacket. So after that is when I started searching and trying all varieties I could get my hands on. The next best as far as accuracy were the TC shockwaves with yellow tip and sabot, Hornady, Then TC shockwaves in Blue. I stuck with what was most accurate and have never turned back.


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