# The Day of the Modern Bow Hunter



## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

I am 58 years old and been bow hunting since late 70's. I have started with a Fred Bear Recurve to now a modern X-bow, I am fairly successfull in my hunts averaging like 2 deer per year, last year 5. 
What concerns me with the modern deer hunters is the use of the Trail Cam's. The guys set up cameras in their spot in Julyish, by opening day they have photos of bucks and does, some big some small. But yet they await the biggest buck they have photos of for the first few days and when he does not show, they mope around like my wife at the beginning of the season. The hunters ask what happened, no deer, the sky is falling, this is not one guy nor one season. I am not into camera's for my hunt, I enjoy seeing what I see not coming out of the woods dissappointed even seeing no deer. 
It just feels like the hunters are changing and those camera's are changing the traditional hunt but only in the hunters head. 
I do not hate the camera's and enjoy looking at the photo's, I am not sure they are good for the hunters. 
I have friends that ask to score deer they have never seen other than photo's and nothing wrong with that but it is changing the evolving history of the hunt.
So I wanted to say something about the changes, probably most of you use camera's in the woods, nothing wrong but your hopes when going into the woods are different. 
What are your thoughts ?


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

It has nothing to do with cameras, it&#8217;s because people watch hunting shows and think that they can be like the people that hunting for a living. Hunting shows (and internet &#8220;experts&#8221 make people think that putting out one or two cameras will get pictures of every deer in the area, when in reality it&#8217;s probably closer to 20-40%. Hunting shows have also given people a false sense of what a trophy deer is, or what hunting is about. Not that we can blame the hunting shows, people should have enough common sense to separate them from normal people.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

i must admit im addicted to game cameras...i currently have 7 cameras going and have 2 laying waiting for me to decide where i want them to go..me and my boys cant wait to check them once a month...its not just for deer...i have 1 possum beating the crap out 5 racoons....multiple coyote pics...owls...a bobcat...bucks fighting...doe's fighting....turkey...etc. i have had pics of a buck at one location that my brother in law had on his camera 7 miles away...thats was a cool finding. during the rut is a blast you get all kinds of straglers that are one in done...

however it does kill some of the excitement when i see bucks that i already seen on camera. i shot a big 8 point 3 years ago that was a regular visiter and i felt bad...like i had a connection..lol

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## icefisherman4life (Aug 5, 2007)

i agree with you weekender. Ive never used one but also enjoy seeing the pics. I know too many guys who have gotten cameras stolen and i know if that was me id be furious just from a money stand point. But im with ya i like to be surprised when something comes by.


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## DLarrick (May 31, 2011)

im with magis on this one. the hunting shows get into peoples heads and they think they need to do everything like them to be successfull. they see them shoot giant deer and feel they need to wait it out till they see one like that. i have ran a few camera and like checking out the pictures and dont always get disapointed if i dont see the biggest one i have pics of. but i thought it was cool to get pics and put my time in and actually see that deer in the woods.


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## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

Larrick I can appreciate your thoughts, as just a month ago I was going to buy a new camo rainsuit. The camera watcher says get a good one, buy scent loc. I said that Scent loc lost a lawsuit last year or so as that stuff does not work after the first couple of trips out. Mr Camera man said that is what the pro's wear on TV. I tried to explain that is done for money the hunters are paid to talk it up. He did not believe me for a moment, I told him he needs to get into retail sales of anything to see how the world turns. that guy has had two camera's stolen also.


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

I used them for a few years. I stopped because it took some of the excitement out of it for me. Mostly because I never got pics of big bucks. Lol.


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## Drew318 (Mar 25, 2010)

I have only been hunting for about 5 or 6 years. Started out hunting public land and now I am on a small piece of private property. I started using a camera last season and don't regret it one bit. I was limited on the time I could hunt so I needed to find out the best time to hunt. Not sure if the camera is the reason for my first successful bow hunt last year in which I killed my first buck but I can tell you I had many deer on the camera including many bucks. I could not find a picture a the one I killed though. I can tell you I never once cared about those pictures when I had a small buck walk under my deer stand, couldn't get a good shot on him and he strolled away then 5 minutes later the buck I killed came in. The heart pounding feeling I got from those two experiences were unaffected from me using a trail camera.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Weekender#1 said:


> Larrick I can appreciate your thoughts, as just a month ago I was going to buy a new camo rainsuit. The camera watcher says get a good one, buy scent loc. I said that Scent loc lost a lawsuit last year or so as that stuff does not work after the first couple of trips out. Mr Camera man said that is what the pro's wear on TV. I tried to explain that is done for money the hunters are paid to talk it up. He did not believe me for a moment, I told him he needs to get into retail sales of anything to see how the world turns. that guy has had two camera's stolen also.


So it seems you're judging all of us that use cameras, based on one person?
Also, maybe you should do a little reading on the lawsuit you say Scentloc loast last year. I'm not saying you should use it, just know what you're talking about. 
If you don't want to use cameras or other more modern gedgets, that fine. You do what you do, and the rest of us will do what we do. And we'll all enjoy ourselves. Just don't think you're better than the rest of us because of it. That seems to be your problem.


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

This is my first year with a trail camera. The purpose was an attempt at security - I grow tired of having my tree stand stolen. Secondary purpose is to watch the deer activity, but I gotta admit this is pretty cool.
As I watch the photos over the last 2 1/2 months, I have learned a lot. It makes me think about how the bag limits are getting high and what a reasonable harvest should be in my location. 
I have very limited time to hunt - one day per month in the season. The camera let's me feel like I am in the hunt all the time. I am not sure if it will change my preference for what to shoot. I guess we are all different that way.


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## BASSINaDL (Aug 24, 2010)

ill use one just to see what time of day they're moving to the food/in and out of bed. I dont keep track of every antlered deer and name them. Thats just a little silly to me.
Just some people come to mind when I think about the freaks that are obsessed with the cameras, field spray, filming hunts, all about the monter bucks. You will find these people on the youtube. Ive seen a bunch of people even in Ohio that get a few buddies together. Go out and buy some gear maybe a new bow that together costs more than their vehicle. Then they call themselves a "pro staff" and shoot some 1-2 year old 8 pt. that would be a very nice buck in the next couple years, for the camera. These people treat it like a sport. Im not talking about everybody that uses trail cams. If I was hunting 400 acers id have another 20 cameras laying around just to see how and when I should be hunting at that time.


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## Carpman (May 18, 2005)

I personally don't think it's the game cameras fault. You can use them to your advantage to pattern deer, especially the new wireless ones.

Anyway, the problem in regards to trying to get the biggest deer is media. Social status is more important to the majority of hunters than getting some meat to feed your family or another family.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Carpman said:


> I personally don't think it's the game cameras fault. You can use them to your advantage to pattern deer, especially the new wireless ones.
> 
> Anyway, the problem in regards to trying to get the biggest deer is media. Social status is more important to the majority of hunters than getting some meat to feed your family or another family.


why is that a problem? its no different then me fishing 4 days a week to catch the biggest bass i can just for a picture. i do it for sport and challenge. sometimes ill go 2-3 years between kills waiting on the big one. if i need meat i run to the store. but i dont talk down on the guys who fill a couple tags a year.

i do have a problem with the dnr trying to further reduce the herd:what: but ive fought that battle somewhere else.

gamecams are just another tool or hobby for some.

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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

The only difference I see is that guys KNOW for a fact what bucks exist. Guys that want to shoot the largest buck have always been around. The only difference is that instead of killing that first trophy sized (whatever that individual hunter deems trophy could be 120, 140, 160 inches) buck they pass because they KNOW there is a larger deer in the area.

Before cams that same guy would have dropped a 150 inch buck.....now he watches him go by because he knows a 175 inch deer is also using the property.

That and mature deer are now way easier to kill. This is not even up for debate...hands down much easier using cams. A guy used to be able to scout a limited # of properties - it had to be done in person. With cams you can scout exponentially more property and do it 24 hrs/day. It is a lot of work and you can spend a lot of money too, but mostly boot leather and time. But using cams you can find mature bucks moving in daylight. And if you pay attention to wind and weather patterns you can often put together a pattern.....dugh - this buck only shows up here on SE winds, etc. You even know which days to hunt and which to saty out of sets.

Look at the record books.....cams directly correlate to the HUGE increase in trophy sized deer. Certainly not the only factor.....but the largest factor - they have completely changed the game. Talk to the most accomplished trophy hunters today....almost all utilize cams to find and kill their bucks.

I'm like the original poster...I don't run cams where I hunt on purpose. I own 2 and leave one for my dad in his backyard for him to have a hobby. I will admit I love looking at the photos and my buddy that owns the 100 acres in Pike county I hunt on catalogs all the deer...names them and runs almost a dozen on just that 100 acres. I'm also not that particular - the first mature buck I see that excites me gets it....and I don't much care if there is a larger antlered buck. If that changes some day I'll definately run cams because it is the sngle largest advantage a hunter has today to take big deer.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

i have pics of many large shooter bucks that only came through one time and never showed again. i can say for the last ten years of using game cams ive only killed 3 bucks i have previously pictured on cam.

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## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

its the fun of watching deer for me and its also better for my deer herd if i take the most mature deer and biggest deer on the property. I started watching a goofy forky buck 4 years ago now he is a huge goofy forky buck that kind of stuff is just cool to me. I dont even think i would shoot him in february because ive gotten to know him and its just to fun to watch him. It also helps if i let people hunt my property i can actually show them which young deer i want them to pass.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Weekender, the very same thing could be said about your "modern" crossbow.Lots of hunters use cameras and really enjoy them What's the big deal. To each their own. No need to belittle those that use them.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

I'm not sure what to say. A crossbow hunter is worried about modern bow hunting? I don't consider crossbows as traditional bow hunting equipment. Unless you are hunting with stick bow from the ground wearing buck skins, I think you are probably using modern equipment. Some guys worry more about their high tech equipment and their image than anything, but they don't bother me. They come and go.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

well how far back do we have to go to qualify for traditional? crossbows have been used for 1000's of years.

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## BaddFish (Jun 20, 2009)

I'm not a camera user but I'm not against them either.... I probably will never use one, but I like looking at others people's pics. 

my theory on hunting is: hunt the fringes early to get a doe in the freezer... as Halloween time comes, start to move in slowly to the bottle neck/bedding areas. By Nov 3rd thru 10, I'm on top of the doe herd, knowing where they are etc...Bucks are right on top of them as well.... Sounds funny, but I try to position myself as if I was one of the bucks.

I would never put a camera in my known bedding/breeding areas, I don't see the point of disturbing it for a couple pics of does/ small bucks. Bottom line- hunt the thick stuff during the rut- that's where the does go.
The mature bucks that I hunt are not on the property until maybe Nov 5th or later.... Its impossible for me to get those mature bucks on camera, I would probably need 25 cameras and alot of permission from neighboring properties.

Again, I'm not against them, use what you want!


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

The oldest evidence of the use of bows and arrows is 64,000 years old. Crossbows were developed around 2500 years ago. Crossbows were developed to enable the average soldier to be able to shoot an arrow without having to learn specialized skill sets.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

any evidence of crossbow hunters being shunned 500bc?

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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

> Crossbows were developed to enable the average soldier to be able to shoot an arrow without having to learn specialized skill sets.


In a time it took a specialized skill set to become a proficient archer.

Current day, an average man with zero experience can open an entry level box compound and be shooting the 10 ring in a few hours. With an X-bow it can be done in minutes. Modern bows are VERY easy to shoot....much different than even 20-25 years ago. I watched a 46 year old guy pull a Bear entry level package out last year at the cabin.....hadn't ever shot a vertical bow. He was shooting 3-4 inch groups with broadheads that same evening and killed a nice buck (mature 8 point) at 45 yards 3 days later. He isn't special...the bow barely needed any adjustment and shot flat to 30 yards.

I think it's funny this argument even exists today. Modern bows are just so easy to shoot.....and vertical bows outperform X-bows quite a bit if you do the physics calcs; it's not even close tracking outside 35 yards. 

I fully support any bow the state deems legal and being somebody that has had to switch to the X-bow permanantly 3 seasons ago I consider my TenPoint X-box a disadvantage in some ways. And it certainly doesn't have the killing power outside 35-40 yards that modern compound bows do. Kenetic energy outside 35 yards and the compound starts to distinguish itself. By 45 yards it's not even close and outside that it's huge.

I think everybody can agree the cameras can be fun and looking at the pictures is fun. It is different though for those older than say early 30s or so that grew up hunting when non of this stuff existed. My dad started bowhunting OH in the late 60s and he wouldn't ever buy a camera....I bought one and put in the woods by his house. Now he loves it, but only as a hobby not as a hunting tool. It gives him something to do around the property.

Talk to the most accomplished trophy hunters today and very often even that guy at the show with a eye popping buck....ask them how they found the deer and how they killed them. Camera comes up 9 times out of 10 these days. Many times I've heard "I never even would have known the deer existed". Cameras have changed big buck hunting. And I'm not saying it's easy...it's not. It's lots of work, time and boot leather. But guys willing to run a lot of cams can and do pattern & then kill big mature deer on a regular basis instead of getting a nice one every 3-5, 10 years. Cams have changed the trophy hunting game completely.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

I have nothing against crossbows and to nock them was NOT my point. The op started a thread knocking modern bowhunters and the tools they use. Yet he is using the very same "modern" tools. He sounds like a hypocrite was my point. Please don't take me bringing up the crossbow as a reason to bash them. That was not my intention of the post.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

bobk - none taken by me. I've just listened to this age old argument and being somebody that has hunted deer with recurve, compound and now exclusively X-box I find it quite funny. Very little difference at all these days between the modern vertical and horizontal bows.....performance and manuafcturing standards are amazing. I pulled the TenPoint X-bow from a box, assembled it, and shot 2 inch groups at 30 yards minutes later. Watching the guy at camp last year with that entry level Bear compound package was eye opening to all of us at just how great and easy to use modern equipment is. He put his first 3 arrows at 20 yards inside a pie plate and dialed right in from there that same day. He loved it and continues to hunt with it as he says it's so much smaller and easier to carry in/out of the woods.

If you aren't hunting bare bones traditional these days it just ain't that difficult yet the same divide remains. Same as it ever was I guess.LOL


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