# Deer Creek Shovelheads



## Sciotodarby

My first post. Shovelheads were biting good on the creek last night. Caught these 3, plus two more big channel cats that got tore up by turtles and a 15" snapper last night on 18 lines I had set. Darby was too high for my liking, so I hit my honey holes on Deer Creek.


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## Mushijobah

Cool....what did you do with the flathead?


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## Deazl666

I take it you don't practice catch and release? Please do so in the darby. Thanks.

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## Sciotodarby

Those fish have all been skinned, filleted and bellymeat removed. Yielded at least 15lbs of excellent meat. I always keep some fish out of Darby. It sustains a healthy population of flathead and channel cats. Keeping a few every year doesn't hurt it one bit.


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## glasseyes

Deazl666 said:


> I take it you don't practice catch and release? Please do so in the darby. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Ohub Campfire mobile app




There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a few nice catfish for eating, none of those were monsters.


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## Boostedawdfun

18 lines you had set? That even legal?


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## Lundy

Boostedawdfun said:


> 18 lines you had set? That even legal?


Yes, you can set up to 50 bank lines with certain requirements and restrictions.


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## Boostedawdfun

That's sounds crazy you can only fish 2 lines but set 50. Never knew that.


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## Mushijobah

1 meal per month
Flathead catfish 23" and over, northern pike 23" and over, steelhead trout from Lake Erie and its tributaries

I'm guessing you eat less shovelhead than that but just a FYI. The belly isn't the only contaminated flesh either, it's throughout the body.


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## Deazl666

Mushijobah said:


> 1 meal per month
> Flathead catfish 23" and over, northern pike 23" and over, steelhead trout from Lake Erie and its tributaries
> 
> I'm guessing you eat less shovelhead than that but just a FYI. The belly isn't the only contaminated flesh either, it's throughout the body.


Another good reason to put them back for someone else to catch, the risks of consumption far outweigh the benefits...


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## MickFisher

Eating these cats are perfectly fine. The mercury content in your store bought fish (especially tuna) or other seafood products isn't any better. Its all about moderation, dont eat anything in excess. Get your slam on with some catfish! 

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## Mushijobah

MickFisher said:


> Get your slam on with some catfish!
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Preferably not with large shovelheads, for your health and for the stream's health.

Contaminant concentration increases 10x per trophic level. Flatheads are at the top, and they also hang out on the bottom. Not the best choice in eats!


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## afeef745

Sciotodarby said:


> ... channel cats that got tore up by turtles and a 15" snapper last night on 18 lines I had set.


How did the turtle eat the catfish? Shouldnt the cats have swam away?


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## MickFisher

Neither is Albacore Tuna, but lots of people choose eat it.

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## Sciotodarby

afeef745 said:


> How did the turtle eat the catfish? Shouldnt the cats have swam away?


They got wrapped around underwater branches and only had around a foot of line.


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## Sciotodarby

I've always enjoyed setting lines and the anticipation to get on the creek or river to check them. it's more fun to me than shooting a nice buck. Darby and Deer Creek can handle the harvest of a couple catfish out of every hole I fish each year. If you think they can't, you really don't know the creeks. They're a natural bounty that needs to be enjoyed past the catch. Anything over about 20lbs gets thrown back, but anything smaller is kept. I feel that catfish out of small streams are cleaner than what comes out of the ocean and I'd say that Deer Creek is actually cleaner than Darby. We don't eat it every night, but I like to have enough in the freezer to have several fish fries throughout the winter.


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## afeef745

Sciotodarby said:


> They got wrapped around underwater branches and only had around a foot of line.


That makes me sad  . Going to a waste. I hate them turtles.


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## USMC_Galloway

Hope you arent the fella that keeps putting unmarked lines up, with green cord and really nice hooks, hanging mid river... if so sorry, they end up in my boat every trip.


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## afeef745

USMC_Galloway said:


> if so sorry, they end up in my boat every trip.


The cats or the hooks?


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## Sciotodarby

USMC_Galloway said:


> Hope you are the fella that keeps putting unmarked lines up, with green cord and really nice hooks, hanging mid river... if so sorry, they end up in my boat every trip.


Sorry, all mine are tagged. Just so you know- you can hang them midriver, as long as the trotline doesn't completely span the body of water.


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## USMC_Galloway

afeef745 said:


> The cats or the hooks?


Hooks, really nice circle hooks. I even have some that I cut off the rope and put them in my terminal tackle box lol. 

If I seen a trout line spanning a river that I was floating down in a kayak, tagged or not its getting cut. That just asking to snag a person.


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## Fisherman 3234

A 10-15 lbs Flathead out of a small creek is a good sized fish and a fish you want to have breeding in that environment. Mushi is right about the amount of contaminants in Flatheads, not such a good idea eating them regularly.


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## Sciotodarby

Trot lines set across creeks are illegal and dangerous. Mine are all set along the usual cat habitat of log jams, downed trees, undercut banks, rootballs and the like. Most generally they are completely out of the way for people to fish around them because they're back in the thick stuff that can't be fished anyway, but I still have people cutting lines. I always have permission (most of the time sole permission) to be where I'm at and try to be considerate of other people that might be using the waterway, some people think they own everything when they're floating down the creek. I know it's bass fisherman doing most of the cutting during the day on the creeks and river rats being territorial on the Scioto.


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## Sciotodarby

Fisherman 3234 said:


> A 10-15 lbs Flathead out of a small creek is a good sized fish and a fish you want to have breeding in that environment. Mushi is right about the amount of contaminants in Flatheads, not such a good idea eating them regularly.


Yes, a 10-15 pounder is a nice fish, but you'd be surprised how many you can catch out of a hole the size of your living room. The habitat I fish can handle some harvest. You'd also be surprised how many 20+ pounders get thrown back. My personal best is 36lb out of Darby.


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## acklac7

Sciotodarby said:


> Yes, a 10-15 pounder is a nice fish, but you'd be surprised how many you can catch out of a hole the size of your living room. The habitat I fish can handle some harvest. You'd also be surprised how many 20+ pounders get thrown back. My personal best is 36lb out of Darby.


Lower Darby is Flathead heaven.

That said I still wouldn't eat them above 7lbs.


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## Fishingislife

Sciotodarby said:


> Those fish have all been skinned, filleted and bellymeat removed. Yielded at least 15lbs of excellent meat. I always keep some fish out of Darby. It sustains a healthy population of flathead and channel cats. Keeping a few every year doesn't hurt it one bit.


 Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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## Mushijobah

Not as many as you'd think. Spent a couple years electroshocking and found that flatheads were about as common as a large predator should be in a small stream. 2-3 fish per section of suitable habitat max.


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## Sciotodarby

What is a a suitable section of habitat? I guarantee you my catch has never dropped off and I've been running lines for 10 years on parts of Darby and Deer Creek. I don't completely clean a hole out and I'm not going to apologize for keeping maybe 40 fish a year of flatheads and channels out of 2 fairly decent size watersheds so that I myself, family and friends can enjoy eating catfish that doesn't taste like mud and I know where it came from. When I set lines on the river it's purely for sport and everything gets thrown back.


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## acklac7

Mushijobah said:


> Not as many as you'd think. Spent a couple years electroshocking and found that flatheads were about as common as a large predator should be in a small stream. 2-3 fish per section of suitable habitat max.


Should have said the Lower Darby is Flathead HABITAT heaven...


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## Mushijobah

A deep hole with root wads, undercut banks, logjams between riffles and runs in a 150-300 sq. mile watershed central Ohio stream.

It's less about keeping the fish, more about exposing your techniques to others who might keep just as many fish as you. I still don't agree with keeping a number of flatheads since it takes so long for them to grow large. Congrats on your abilities, though. You obviously know how to get them.


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## Mushijobah

acklac7 said:


> Should have said the Lower Darby is Flathead HABITAT heaven...


You mean Griggs??


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## acklac7

There are no Flatheads in Griggs, thats some old urban legend...


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## acklac7

Also the areas on the Lower Darby that hold flatheads are almost impossible to get to without permission (as the whole lower stretch is basically all private property). Not to mention bank-fishing said holes is nearly impossible...


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## Sciotodarby

acklac7 said:


> Also the areas on the Lower Darby that hold flatheads are almost impossible to get to without permission (as the whole lower stretch is basically all private property). Not to mention bank-fishing said holes is nearly impossible...


I've got permission for without a doubt the best holes on Darby. And you're right, they're impossible to fish with a pole. They usually have some of the best smallmouth in them, too. I caught a 21in smallie on a limb line one time that took a pumpkinseed the size of my hand for bait. I thought there was at least a 10lb cat on the line they way the limb was jerking and water was boiling.
Setting lines is more than just catching fish to eat for me. It's a whole day ritual getting everything ready, taking my 4 year old boy to catch bait, and finally finding the perfect spots to hang lines. Then the fun next morning of running them and the adrenaline of pulling them in the canoe. My son isn't old enough to go with me, but he's sure excited when I get home and start pulling them out and he helps me clean them. It's not for everybody, but I wish more people were understanding of it. Too many people have ruined it for guys like me that truly love it for the sport. And the big filets and belly meat, too!


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## Deazl666

Mushijobah said:


> Not as many as you'd think. Spent a couple years electroshocking and found that flatheads were about as common as a large predator should be in a small stream. 2-3 fish per section of suitable habitat max.


I believe it. I've fished the darby hundreds of times and have caught exactly one flathead, but plenty of channels...


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## Sciotodarby

Deazl666 said:


> I believe it. I've fished the darby hundreds of times and have caught exactly one flathead, but plenty of channels...


It's been my experience that the shovel heads in Darby hold tight to cover. Like right underneath it and don't move much. Very hard to catch them on rod and reel. I've got two holes that I can regularly catch them out of with a pole, and they're just under cut banks and easy to fish.


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## Deazl666

Sciotodarby said:


> It's been my experience that the shovel heads in Darby hold tight to cover. Like right underneath it and don't move much. Very hard to catch them on rod and reel. I've got two holes that I can regularly catch them out of with a pole, and they're just under cut banks and easy to fish.


I'd hide too if I knew I was headed for the dinner plate...


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## StumpHawg

Sciotodarby said:


> What is a a suitable section of habitat? I guarantee you my catch has never dropped off and I've been running lines for 10 years on parts of Darby and Deer Creek. I don't completely clean a hole out and I'm not going to apologize for keeping maybe 40 fish a year of flatheads and channels out of 2 fairly decent size watersheds so that I myself, family and friends can enjoy eating catfish that doesn't taste like mud and I know where it came from. When I set lines on the river it's purely for sport and everything gets thrown back.


Well said, I miss those days setting lines with family Ive had some great memories with family and friends checking lines even though its been awhile... Keep it up and welcome to site!!!!!


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## Sciotodarby

Deazl666 said:


> I'd hide too if I knew I was headed for the dinner plate...


You must be vegetarian?


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## shwookie

USMC_Galloway said:


> Hooks, really nice circle hooks. I even have some that I cut off the rope and put them in my terminal tackle box lol.
> 
> If I seen a trout line spanning a river that I was floating down in a kayak, tagged or not its getting cut. That just asking to snag a person.


F trout lines.
I cut them like its my job if they are put in a bad place.


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## sbreech

There's nothing wrong with keeping a few fish every year to eat. Respect the game, respect the habitat, and do it all legally. There's nothing better than some battered and fried catfish.(although I've never tried shovelhead - my dad always said the bigger cats don't taste very good)
[/COLOR] 
I don't line fish, but cutting legally set lines is illegal & is no different than somebody smashing your car window and stealing the stuff from your car, or than somebody walking down the bank, seeing your fishing rods sitting 20 feet from you , and stomping them into bits (except that the stomping in front of the owner would take kahones.)


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## Deazl666

Sciotodarby said:


> You must be vegetarian?


I wish; vegetarians live longer...


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## sbreech

Deazl666 said:


> I wish; vegetarians live longer...


Maybe so, but that would be like purgatory - living longer so you can munch on leaves and vegetables, no steak, no burgers, no bratwurst, no fried bologna, no ribs....
[/COLOR] 
That sounds like a torture one would have to endure on one of the Saw movies.


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## Salmonid

I also have a bad habit of cutting abandoned unmarked and lines just dangling at face height when wading or floating streams. I have about been hooked dozens of times by lazy limbliners who use the same rigs and just rebait them instead of retying them everytime out like they are supposed to

Salmonid


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## Priorityfishing

acklac7 said:


> There are no Flatheads in Griggs, thats some old urban legend...


Truth. 


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## supercanoe

The Darby does not hold a high density of large catfish. That's a fact. You can say what you want to justify your actions, but you are wrong. I keep some fish to eat, but would never dream of killing a flathead. That is ignorant.


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## shwookie

> I don't line fish, but cutting legally set lines is illegal & is no different than somebody smashing your car window and stealing the stuff from your car, or than somebody walking down the bank, seeing your fishing rods sitting 20 feet from you , and stomping them into bits (except that the stomping in front of the owner would take kahones.)


Yeah its a lot different actually. Besides, I have never, ever seen a legally set trotline. Ever



> Trotlines - Trotlines must be marked with the name and address of the user.


 Never, ever, ever have I seen this.

http://www.ohiodnr.com/wildlife/dow/regulations/fishing_setlines.aspx


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## Mushijobah

Causing $800 damage to a windshield or breaking $500 worth of fishing tackle is a little different than cutting someone's $1.50 limb line.

Not advocating crime, only reasonable analogies.

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## sbreech

Costs might be different, but the mentality of the offender is the same - damage / break / steal that which is not yours - and again, I reiterate - if the lines are set legally.

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## Sciotodarby

There are many, many people that set lines illegally. I enjoy it too much to lose the privilege by doing something ignorant and losing my license. I take all my limb lines down and remove all the drop lines off my trot lines during the week. I set my lines Friday night and when I check them Saturday morning, I rebait them to keep them legal during the day Saturday and then recheck and bait Saturday night. I also trap, so I use my copper trap tags on all my lines. They're not big and flashy, but they are there with all my information so please look carefully before cutting a line because I know others that do the same thing.


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## Boostedawdfun

Sounds like lazy fishing to me. That's like deer hunting with a giant cage/trap. What is the fun in that?


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## Sciotodarby

supercanoe said:


> The Darby does not hold a high density of large catfish. That's a fact. You can say what you want to justify your actions, but you are wrong. I keep some fish to eat, but would never dream of killing a flathead. That is ignorant.


To each their own. The fact is, the stretches of Darby I fish are loaded with shovel heads. I know what the holes can handle. Like i said before, ive set lines in the same holes for 10 years and my catch has never dropped off. I enjoy the creeks as much as anybody and would never try to overfish it. Would you let a 180in buck walk by if you deer hunt? There's not many of them around but nobody looks down on somebody that shoots one. I thought I'd share my luck over the weekend with this forum, not get flamed by keeping some fish to eat.


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## Sciotodarby

Boostedawdfun said:


> Sounds like lazy fishing to me. That's like deer hunting with a giant cage/trap. What is the fun in that?


Your ever see a limb or trot line dancing and water boiling and you'd see the fun in it. Catching the bait and getting excited to set the lines. I absolutely love it and have since I was a young boy going with dad and I know my son will enjoy it the same as I do. We're family that loves trapping, and setting lines offer the same excitement and anticipation.


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## BottomBouncer

Sciotodarby said:


> Your ever see a limb or trot line dancing and water boiling and you'd see the fun in it. Catching the bait and getting excited to set the lines. I absolutely love it and have since I was a young boy going with dad and I know my son will enjoy it the same as I do. We're family that loves trapping, and setting lines offer the same excitement and anticipation.


Almost like swamp people. A little more safe though


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## Deazl666

Sciotodarby said:


> To each their own. The fact is, the stretches of Darby I fish are loaded with shovel heads. I know what the holes can handle. Like i said before, ive set lines in the same holes for 10 years and my catch has never dropped off. I enjoy the creeks as much as anybody and would never try to overfish it. Would you let a 180in buck walk by if you deer hunt? There's not many of them around but nobody looks down on somebody that shoots one. I thought I'd share my luck over the weekend with this forum, not get flamed by keeping some fish to eat.


No-one's flaming you just to flame you though. Your post hits on a few controversial points: catch and release (or, lackthereof), trot-lining that impacts kayakers, and preservation of a certain creek's fishery. That's gonna generate some discussion! If you had posted pictures of flatheads caught and released, reported on the river conditions, presentation, etc., which, admittedly, all sounds very generic, you would have been okay. You should expect some negative feedback, however, when you take a position on touchy subjects, although you are certainly free to do so. (I suppose consuming contaminated fish is more of a personal choice in that it only impacts you, but you should expect to get some unsolicited advice on that as well.) That being said, I doubt many around here would give you crap for keeping gills, crappie, white bass, a few saugeye, but a flathead is going to raise a few eyebrows, which is to be expected from those who put a high premium on catch and release...


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## Hfish

Nice catch of flats. You definitely know how to fish for them and they're good eats.


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## Shad Rap

Deazl666 said:


> No-one's flaming you just to flame you though. Your post hits on a few controversial points: catch and release (or, lackthereof), trot-lining that impacts kayakers, and preservation of a certain creek's fishery. That's gonna generate some discussion! If you had posted pictures of flatheads caught and released, reported on the river conditions, presentation, etc., which, admittedly, all sounds very generic, you would have been okay. You should expect some negative feedback, however, when you take a position on touchy subjects, although you are certainly free to do so. (I suppose consuming contaminated fish is more of a personal choice in that it only impacts you, but you should expect to get some unsolicited advice on that as well.) That being said, I doubt many around here would give you crap for keeping gills, crappie, white bass, a few saugeye, but a flathead is going to raise a few eyebrows, which is to be expected from those who put a high premium on catch and release...


Deazl, only thing is those 'controversial points' that u brought up are HIS RIGHTS...the man never did anything wrong and the argument basically started with you!..this 'high premium' of catch and release need to go out the window...especially when you try to pound your views into someone else's head...not everyone thinks like you and its their right to keep EVERYTHING they catch as long as its legal...end of story...I'm tired of hearing the catch and release argument and certain people whining over it...if you guys wanna look like idiots for flaming someone over keeping fish then keep it up...


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## PARK92

nice fish man. eat up! how do them flatties taste? ive never had any type of catfish but do catch them sometimes..


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## Sciotodarby

Flathead filets and belly meat cut into nuggets dunked in buttermilk and then rolled in a 50/50 mix of white cornbread mix and yellow cornmeal, a little salt and pepper, a dash of cajun seasoning then fried in peanut oil is some of the best eating fish you'll ever come across.


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## Sciotodarby

Deazl666 said:


> No-one's flaming you just to flame you though. Your post hits on a few controversial points: catch and release (or, lackthereof), trot-lining that impacts kayakers, and preservation of a certain creek's fishery. That's gonna generate some discussion! If you had posted pictures of flatheads caught and released, reported on the river conditions, presentation, etc., which, admittedly, all sounds very generic, you would have been okay. You should expect some negative feedback, however, when you take a position on touchy subjects, although you are certainly free to do so. (I suppose consuming contaminated fish is more of a personal choice in that it only impacts you, but you should expect to get some unsolicited advice on that as well.) That being said, I doubt many around here would give you crap for keeping gills, crappie, white bass, a few saugeye, but a flathead is going to raise a few eyebrows, which is to be expected from those who put a high premium on catch and release...


Good luck finding any fish that isn't "contaminated." The catch and release guys don't realize how many big ones I throw back. The big one in the pic is probably 16-18lbs and is as big as I keep and fairly common in both Deer Creek and Darby. Hopefully this weekend I'll have some pics of true big ones over 20-25lbs that will be thrown back out of the canoe.


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## Slab assassin 55

SciotoDarby the flathead nuggets sound great I have some flathead in the freezer I need to cook I may try that. As for people getting upset I feel for you on this thread you seem to know what your doing and doing nothing illegal I see no problem. 


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## Deazl666

Shad Rap said:


> Deazl, only thing is those 'controversial points' that u brought up are HIS RIGHTS...the man never did anything wrong and the argument basically started with you!..this 'high premium' of catch and release need to go out the window...especially when you try to pound your views into someone else's head...not everyone thinks like you and its their right to keep EVERYTHING they catch as long as its legal...end of story...I'm tired of hearing the catch and release argument and certain people whining over it...if you guys wanna look like idiots for flaming someone over keeping fish then keep it up...


Dude quit barking at me; it's a perfectly valid point I made that you happen to disagree with. That's all...

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## Mushijobah

Apparently keeping fish is a right....must have missed that in the constitution...28th amendment maybe?

How long were those flatheads approximately?


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## Mushijobah

Also, read a few different things on the matter and found a a 10 lb flathead can be anywhere from 10-20 years old depending on the size of the stream.


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## Sciotodarby

I'd say the biggest one is around 30", maybe 32. I've got a 34" inseam to give you an idea. With the amount of baitfish available, I doubt it's 20 years old.


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## Mr. A

Shad Rap said:


> Deazl, only thing is those 'controversial points' that u brought up are HIS RIGHTS...the man never did anything wrong and the argument basically started with you!..this 'high premium' of catch and release need to go out the window...especially when you try to pound your views into someone else's head...not everyone thinks like you and its their right to keep EVERYTHING they catch as long as its legal...end of story...I'm tired of hearing the catch and release argument and certain people whining over it...if you guys wanna look like idiots for flaming someone over keeping fish then keep it up...


ShadRap, who's flaming who now. If YOU read Deals post again you can see that he is just telling the guy that posting what he is posting about is bound to get solicited and unsolicited opinions.

Nobody has the right to set lines that span the waterway so check your self before making such all inclusive comments when flaming someone, it just doesn't put you in the best light when you defeat your own argument like that.

The guy does have a right to do what he's doing but only because it is legal. Kind of like going to paylakes, or commercially fishing the big flats and blues out of the Ohio river. Legal, yes, but not everyone agrees with it.

Lastly, and I'm treading gently here, I think that peoples issue is more that the fella took several quality flats out of an area of Ohio (not just the stream) where flats are not in great numbers, especially the bigger they get. Most people here believe the ethical thing to do is help the natural population grow by C&R, that is where the passion over it comes from. The OP, while obviously taking great pains to be completely legit and within his rights, surfers from the hoolagans that don't and decimate the fish populations in an area. Not to mention that of he's truly at the same areas for10 years, he may not clean them out but I bet he's stagnated the size of those fish.

On a personal note, I'm quite tired of people on a public site, that encourages discourse over these topics, telling others they are tired of hearing someone else's side of the story (that actually is a right I believe bit Ferrell free to correct me). If your so tired of it then state your position in a thread and prove to us why C&R is NOT the right thing to do. And next time your about to type that out, think carefully about who is the one whining and making an idiot of themself.

Mr. A


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## Sciotodarby

Mr. A said:


> The guy does have a right to do what he's doing but only because it is legal. Kind of like going to paylakes, or commercially fishing the big flats and blues out of the Ohio river. Legal, yes, but not everyone agrees with it.
> 
> Lastly, and I'm treading gently here, I think that peoples issue is more that the fella took several quality flats out of an area of Ohio (not just the stream) where flats are not in great numbers, especially the bigger they get. Most people here believe the ethical thing to do is help the natural population grow by C&R, that is where the passion over it comes from. The OP, while obviously taking great pains to be completely legit and within his rights, surfers from the hoolagans that don't and decimate the fish populations in an area. Not to mention that of he's truly at the same areas for10 years, he may not clean them out but I bet he's stagnated the size of those fish.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. A


The lower section of Darby( and Deer Creek too) that I fish hold ideal flathead habitat and harbors them in good numbers if you can get to them and know how to catch them. And yes, I've fished the same holes for 10 years and the catch is always about the same depending on the cover. Anybody that knows Darby knows how it changes with each flood. ANYTHING OVER 20lbs GETS THROWN BACK. Maybe that explains why I caught the 36pounder 2 years ago and always catch several over 25 each year. I usally just set lines in a hole for one weekend, maybe 2 if it's a big one. You can pull more 12-15lb fish out of a hole than I would care to skin and clean. The bigger fish are harder to handle and skin. The 8-10lb fish are about the easiest to clean.


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## acklac7

Sciotodarby said:


> The lower section of Darby( and Deer Creek too) that I fish hold ideal flathead habitat and harbors them in good numbers if you can get to them and know how to catch them. And yes, I've fished the same holes for 10 years and the catch is always about the same depending on the cover. Anybody that knows Darby knows how it changes with each flood. ANYTHING OVER 20lbs GETS THROWN BACK. Maybe that explains why I caught the 36pounder 2 years ago and always catch several over 25 each year. I usally just set lines in a hole for one weekend, maybe 2 if it's a big one. You can pull more 12-15lb fish out of a hole than I would care to skin and clean. The bigger fish are harder to handle and skin. The 8-10lb fish are about the easiest to clean.


Also worth mentioning that IMO the lower streches of the Darby/Deer Creek/X Trib get re-stocked with Scioto Flatheads annually. I highly doubt you are catching fish that have lived there whole life in a creek. If such was the case I would probably have a different view on the matter.


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## Sciotodarby

acklac7 said:


> Also worth mentioning that IMO the lower streches of the Darby/Deer Creek/X Trib get re-stocked with Scioto Flatheads annually. I highly doubt you are catching fish that have lived there whole life in a creek. If such was the case I would probably have a different view on the matter.


I'd say thats the case in the last mile or so of the creeks. You can see the difference in the fish down that close to the river. The river fish aren't as dark as the creek flatheads. They're a pale molted green and lighter brown, where the creek fish are darker brown and black. They get tossed back.


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## Deazl666

sbreech said:


> Maybe so, but that would be like purgatory - living longer so you can munch on leaves and vegetables, no steak, no burgers, no bratwurst, no fried bologna, no ribs....
> [/COLOR]
> That sounds like a torture one would have to endure on one of the Saw movies.




I could do it (I think) if my wife was a vegetarian chef, or if I was rich enough to employ one to cook my food. I just ate a Trader Joe's apple chicken sausage wrapped in a slice of swiss cheese, btw...


----------



## acklac7

Deazl666 said:


> I just ate a Trader Joe's apple chicken sausage wrapped in a slice of swiss cheese, btw...


Trader Joes Saugage = The Slam


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Shad Rap said:


> Deazl, only thing is those 'controversial points' that u brought up are HIS RIGHTS...the man never did anything wrong and the argument basically started with you!..this 'high premium' of catch and release need to go out the window...especially when you try to pound your views into someone else's head...not everyone thinks like you and its their right to keep EVERYTHING they catch as long as its legal...end of story...I'm tired of hearing the catch and release argument and certain people whining over it...if you guys wanna look like idiots for flaming someone over keeping fish then keep it up...


+1. On OGF, you'd think flatheads and bass were on the endangered species list. The guy already said he puts the big ones back.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Mushijobah said:


> Apparently keeping fish is a right....must have missed that in the constitution...28th amendment maybe?
> 
> How long were those flatheads approximately?


Maybe if the constitution was the only entity that grants you rights. Do you currently have the right to drive a car down the road? Which amendment is that?


----------



## Flathead King 06

Sciotodarby

Nice haul buddy! I grew up setting limb lines and bank lines in small creeks as well. Nothing like getting all prepared with bait and rigging lines then going back the next morning to see limbs bouncing. It's still an excitement that can't be compared! I have not caught many flats on lines in my neck of the woods, but we do manage a few 15lb+ channels each year.

And don't worry about everyone's "here say" opinions. If what you are doing is within legal limitations as far as following regs then no one has anything to complain about. People don't like it, but I say whatever... they are just jealous . Next big flat you get, try eating it. In my experiences there is no difference in the little pan fryer fish than the big ones, as long as you clean them up good.

To each there own, but no one needs to down someone because of the choices they make. I say as long as they guy is doing everything by the book, no one should have any objections to it. Yes it may be a controversial bit here, but as long as it's legal there is nothing wrong with it. And to be honest he could catch and keep every flathead he wanted that was under 35" and there is no limit. The guy sounds like he knows what he's doing though given the extent (10 yrs) and his ethical practices of releasing brooding fish (20lbs + ) he has a right, as a resident license holder, to keep what he catches, just as everyone else has that right too, whether or not you intend to express that right is your choice.


----------



## Mushijobah

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Maybe if the constitution was the only entity that grants you rights. Do you currently have the right to drive a car down the road? Which amendment is that?


Did I ever claim that? Thought before typing, it's a learned trait. Keep at it.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Mushijobah said:


> Apparently keeping fish is a right....must have missed that in the constitution...28th amendment maybe?





MassillonBuckeye said:


> Maybe if the constitution was the only entity that grants you rights. Do you currently have the right to drive a car down the road? Which amendment is that?





Mushijobah said:


> Did I ever claim that? Thought before typing, it's a learned trait. Keep at it.


Interesting. It would seem that's exactly what you said. No need to be a jerk.


----------



## Deazl666

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Maybe if the constitution was the only entity that grants you rights. Do you currently have the right to drive a car down the road? Which amendment is that?


You have right to be on a road (that's public), but not a right to drive on said road... 

Only in the most abstract sense is driving considered a right. Practically speaking, most legal experts agree that driving is a privilege granted under law, not an inherent right granted by the Constitutional or an otherwise established Civil right, which is why a license can be (and actually is) required for driving. 

With regard to angling and harvesting fish, I found this in a legal brief from USlegal.com (naturalresourceslaw.uslegal.com/hunting-and-fishing/hunting-fishing-rights/): 

_The citizen has no private right to take fish or game, except as such right is expressly given by the state. Private persons cannot claim an exclusive right to fish in any portion of public waters, except in so far as s/he has acquired such right by grant or prescription. _

Therefore, as is the case with driving, only in the most abstract sense is fishing (or harvesting) a right, which, again, is why a license is required by the state. 

There are exceptions, however: Presently, 17 states have adopted their own constitutional amendments establishing a citizen's right to fish and/or hunt. At this time, Ohio is not one of those states. (ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/state-constitutional-right-to-hunt-and-fish.aspx)

In conclusion, I think it's safe to say that in Ohio, one does not (yet) have an inherent right to harvest fish...

Edit: All this talk of "rights" aside, "catch and release," although not established in law, is a widely accepted (if not universally agreed-upon) principle.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Deazl666 said:


> You have right to be on a road (that's public), but not a right to drive on said road...
> 
> Only in the most abstract sense is driving considered a right. Practically speaking, most legal experts agree that driving is a privilege granted under law, not an inherent right granted by the Constitutional or an otherwise established Civil right, which is why a license can be (and actually is) required for driving.
> 
> With regard to angling and harvesting fish, I found this in a legal brief from USlegal.com (naturalresourceslaw.uslegal.com/hunting-and-fishing/hunting-fishing-rights/):
> 
> _The citizen has no private right to take fish or game, except as such right is expressly given by the state. Private persons cannot claim an exclusive right to fish in any portion of public waters, except in so far as s/he has acquired such right by grant or prescription. _
> 
> Therefore, as is the case with driving, only in the most abstract sense is fishing (or harvesting) a right, which, again, is why a license is required by the state.
> 
> There are exceptions, however: Presently, 17 states have adopted their own constitutional amendments establishing a citizen's right to fish and/or hunt. At this time, Ohio is not one of those states. (ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/state-constitutional-right-to-hunt-and-fish.aspx)
> 
> In conclusion, I think it's safe to say that in Ohio, one does not (yet) have an inherent right to harvest fish...


No but said right is granted by the state via license. Exactly my point. I may or may not give you the right to stand in my yard. See what I did there? Call it a right, call it a privilege I don't really care. It is what it is. A right. Which was granted(presumably) to this man by the State, to do exactly what it is he is doing. The end.



> a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way.
> "she had every right to be angry"
> synonyms:	entitlement, prerogative, privilege, advantage, due, birthright, liberty, authority, power, license, permission, dispensation, leave, sanction, freedom; More


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## Mushijobah

Flathead King 06 said:


> S
> 
> .. they are just jealous .


Sounds like a quote out of "Mean Girls" 

Maybe our opinions are not heresay. My conclusions are based off of formal education, professional experience, and lastly real life experience. I don't think anyone who has been skeptical of keeping multiple flatheads is against limb lining. I think it is a limb liners responsibility to understand the impact they are having on trophy flathead fisheries and act accordingly. Saying "well I know there will be more, there are every year" isn't smart, expecially when you're advertising your activities to possibly 40,000+ other potential limbliners. With all the poor publicity that has been coming to paylakes and paylake suppliers (some being limb liners/trotliners), it would be smart to work on giving yourself a favorable image among anglers, nature enthusiasts, environmentalists, and the audience of this huge fishing website. You never know when a politician or lobbyist will say "enough is enough".


----------



## Mushijobah

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Interesting. It would seem that's exactly what you said. No need to be a jerk.


My point being, many things that people take as rights are actually privileges. Driving on public roads is not a right, nor is fishing public waters, nor are many things done in public or on public grounds. That's why these privileges can be taken away from you when you screw up.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Mushijobah said:


> My point being, many things that people take as rights are actually privileges. Driving on public roads is not a right, nor is fishing public waters, nor are many things done in public or on public grounds. That's why these privileges can be taken away from you when you screw up.


So give me an example of your idea of a "right" then please. I think your interpretation is way too narrow. Which was my point.




> a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way.
> "she had every right to be angry"
> synonyms:	entitlement, prerogative, privilege, advantage, due, birthright, liberty, authority, power, license, permission, dispensation, leave, sanction, freedom; More


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## Mushijobah

See Bill of Rights.


----------



## V-MAX200

Nice fish! Sounds like you and your son are having fun. I always thought it was cool when my dad brought home some fish he had caught and I got to help clean them when I was a kid. The best part was the next day when mom would cook up the fish with some fresh French fries and hush puppies! Its something I'll never forget. Now I'm hungry for fish!


----------



## sbreech

Mushijobah said:


> See Bill of Rights.


Even the Bill of Rights can be changed, as can the Constitution. We've been told that it's "an outdated document that needs updated," with a simple example being the 2nd amendment and is under attack a lot lately. So, since rights cannot be taken away, and privileges can, perhaps there is really no such thing as a "right" with the exception that, once born, we have the right to die.
[/COLOR] 
See, anyone can play semantics.


----------



## Fishguy777

Don't flatheads have to be 35" or larger to keep? And only 1 a day? I'm from the maumee area....anyone?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Flathead King 06

Fishguy777 said:


> Don't flatheads have to be 35" or larger to keep? And only 1 a day? I'm from the maumee area....anyone?
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


The regulations read very confusingly... there is no limit to flatheads under 35", but only one (1) over 35" may be kept.


----------



## Mushijobah

sbreech said:


> Even the Bill of Rights can be changed, as can the Constitution. We've been told that it's "an outdated document that needs updated," with a simple example being the 2nd amendment and is under attack a lot lately.


Maybe you've been told that. If anything, the understanding of the 2nd amendment has become more literal. Nice try, though! As it stands, in the united states (Ohio) you do not have a right to drive on public roads and you do not have a right to keep fish. The fact that we have licenses for these activities makes it pretty obvious. I hereby rest my case and recommend we get back on topic.


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## Fishguy777

Ah yes, I see the wordplay. Sciotodarby if you're ever in NW Ohio check out the maumee river. My buddy has caught a couple of 50+lbers on rod n' reel. I've never really targeted them but have caught two in my life... Enjoy the fish, I hear the perch calling my name lol.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## MassillonBuckeye

Mushijobah said:


> Maybe you've been told that. If anything, the understanding of the 2nd amendment has become more literal. Nice try, though! As it stands, in the united states (Ohio) you do not have a right to drive on public roads and you do not have a right to keep fish. The fact that we have licenses for these activities makes it pretty obvious. I hereby rest my case and recommend we get back on topic.


Being a licensed fisherman in Ohio I don't have the right to keep fish.......... Wow. The mental gymnastics in play here are quite impressive.

You are confusing Inherent and inalienable and a few other things.

Here's the definition of "right".



> a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way.
> "she had every right to be angry"
> synonyms:	entitlement, prerogative, privilege, advantage, due, birthright, liberty, authority, power, license, permission, dispensation, leave, sanction, freedom; More


Heres another:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/right


> In an abstract sense, justice, ethical correctness, or harmony with the rules of law or the principles of morals. In a concrete legal sense, a power, privilege, demand, or claim possessed by a particular person by virtue of law.


Has nothing to do with whether or not it can be taken away. Your second amendment rights are revoked once you are convicted of a felony. So that must mean it's a privilege!


----------



## Flathead King 06

Mushijobah said:


> Sounds like a quote out of "Mean Girls"
> 
> Maybe our opinions are not heresay. My conclusions are based off of formal education, professional experience, and lastly real life experience. I don't think anyone who has been skeptical of keeping multiple flatheads is against limb lining. I think it is a limb liners responsibility to understand the impact they are having on trophy flathead fisheries and act accordingly. Saying "well I know there will be more, there are every year" isn't smart, expecially when you're advertising your activities to possibly 40,000+ other potential limbliners. With all the poor publicity that has been coming to paylakes and paylake suppliers (some being limb liners/trotliners), it would be smart to work on giving yourself a favorable image among anglers, nature enthusiasts, environmentalists, and the audience of this huge fishing website. You never know when a politician or lobbyist will say "enough is enough".


Whether you or I agree/disagree that harvesting/over harvesting flatheads on small bodies of water is adverse to the population of the species in said body of water is not for you or me to determine. Yes there have been studies over the years showing how harvesting of trophy fisheries can be detrimental to the species, I'm not disagreeing with that, take a look at the Ohio River and what Commercial Fishing has done. But to sit and tell a single person what they are doing is "bad" for the fishery is completely uncalled for. Though technically you never said that, it is apparent that you are wanting the OP to understand your knowledge of how harvesting fish can affect the body of water. 

The point I'm trying to make is that whether you or I agree or disagree with the actions of the OP, that's not for us to lecture him on what he should be doing. For hundreds of years, this nations people have harvested fish, more than you or I will ever know, for consumption, sale, trade, etc... and we may or may not be seeing the effects of it today. Sure, I bet they had "bad" years of harvest, but to think the thought of taking too many fish ever crossed their minds, HIGHLY DOUBT it... it was a means of survival for them in that era. Now with today's insight, technology, and what have you we simply deem this "bad" time of fishing to over harvest. Its easy! Thats what Americas people have become, easy lazy people... easier to blame it on the first thing than to really look at all the facts and see what truly is the underlying cause.

And thinking that its a person's responsibility to understand what they are doing and how it affects things... its called the state regulations. If the state thought that harvesting flatheads were bad for the population of them, they would be protected. I love to catch big flatheads, and I release all that I catch except for a few each year that get turned into fried catfish nuggets- there is nothing wrong with that, yes the fishing gets worse each year, but look at the number of fishermen now targeting these fish compared to years before, and how much the river systems have changed due to lack of habitat, toxins, etc...Just because you chose to release your catch, doesn't mean I or anyone else has to. Now I'm not advocating to go and keep all you catch as I do agree that catching trophy fish requires some intellect on how to "care" for the species. Though catch and release of this species is urged, it is not required, though I wish more river fishermen would practice it.

If it really grinds your gears about over harvest you should look to the northeast in those states where the flathead is frowned upon as an invasive species and they kill them just to kill them. I'm talking hundreds of pounds of fish caught and never returned to the water, let alone getting used as food.


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## Flathead King 06

Mushijobah said:


> MAs it stands, in the united states (Ohio) you do not have a right to keep fish. The fact that we have licenses for these activities makes it pretty obvious.


If this is true, then I guess in each state across the nation you have no "rights" to fish either... its a privilege you must purchase through each DNR on yearly basis, that is to fish public water ways. SO technically since sciotodarby purchased his fishing license, then he purchased the privilege to keep his catch...


----------



## Mushijobah

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Being a licensed fisherman in Ohio I don't have the right to keep fish.......... Wow. The mental gymnastics in play here are quite impressive.
> 
> You are confusing Inherent and inalienable and a few other things.
> 
> Here's the definition of "right".
> 
> 
> Heres another:
> http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/right
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with whether or not it can be taken away. Your second amendment rights are revoked once you are convicted of a felony. So that must mean it's a privilege!


Wow. How you got that I believe OP cannot keep fish from me explaining to ANOTHER member that no one has the right to fish or keep fish, we will never know. Congrats Massilon, you've outdone yourself! Re-read my original replies to avoid drawing ridiculous conclusions.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Mushijobah

Flathead King 06 said:


> If this is true, then I guess in each state across the nation you have no "rights" to fish either... its a privilege you must purchase through each DNR on yearly basis, that is to fish public water ways. SO technically since sciotodarby purchased his fishing license, then he purchased the privilege to keep his catch...


Yes, you are getting it. That's exactly what I mean. As I've said, in no way am I dissing limb liners or saying they are not legal. I've mentioned this in past posts within this thread. 

It's the keeping of multiple Flatheads from small streams like Deer Creek I do not personally agree with. I'm allowed to give my opinion, you don't have to like it. I never gave it as fact, but I did give facts that support my opinion.


----------



## Mushijobah

Flathead King 06 said:


> Whether you or I agree/disagree that harvesting/over harvesting flatheads on small bodies of water is adverse to the population of the species in said body of water is not for you or me to determine. Yes there have been studies over the years showing how harvesting of trophy fisheries can be detrimental to the species, I'm not disagreeing with that, take a look at the Ohio River and what Commercial Fishing has done. But to sit and tell a single person what they are doing is "bad" for the fishery is completely uncalled for. Though technically you never said that, it is apparent that you are wanting the OP to understand your knowledge of how harvesting fish can affect the body of water.
> 
> The point I'm trying to make is that whether you or I agree or disagree with the actions of the OP, that's not for us to lecture him on what he should be doing. For hundreds of years, this nations people have harvested fish, more than you or I will ever know, for consumption, sale, trade, etc... and we may or may not be seeing the effects of it today. Sure, I bet they had "bad" years of harvest, but to think the thought of taking too many fish ever crossed their minds, HIGHLY DOUBT it... it was a means of survival for them in that era. Now with today's insight, technology, and what have you we simply deem this "bad" time of fishing to over harvest. Its easy! Thats what Americas people have become, easy lazy people... easier to blame it on the first thing than to really look at all the facts and see what truly is the underlying cause.
> 
> And thinking that its a person's responsibility to understand what they are doing and how it affects things... its called the state regulations. If the state thought that harvesting flatheads were bad for the population of them, they would be protected. I love to catch big flatheads, and I release all that I catch except for a few each year that get turned into fried catfish nuggets- there is nothing wrong with that, yes the fishing gets worse each year, but look at the number of fishermen now targeting these fish compared to years before, and how much the river systems have changed due to lack of habitat, toxins, etc...Just because you chose to release your catch, doesn't mean I or anyone else has to. Now I'm not advocating to go and keep all you catch as I do agree that catching trophy fish requires some intellect on how to "care" for the species. Though catch and release of this species is urged, it is not required, though I wish more river fishermen would practice it.
> 
> If it really grinds your gears about over harvest you should look to the northeast in those states where the flathead is frowned upon as an invasive species and they kill them just to kill them. I'm talking hundreds of pounds of fish caught and never returned to the water, let alone getting used as food.


It's the fact that he's advertising that is most hurtful to the streams. If it were just him out there doing it, that's one thing. Now (partially my fault) this thread has received over 1000 views, and it will certainly grow. Who knows how many people will now be fishing Deer Creek for flatheads as a result of this thread? Why name the creek? Why talk about the large and endless supply of fish you always catch out of the creek?

The state wants people to fish more than they care about trophy fish. It's not wrong, it's just how they operate. I feel people are responsible for using discretion on keeping fish and trophy fish. And...let's be real...the state is not equipped to enforce the few laws that they have.

And the invasive flatheads of the Northeast and out West are...well...invasive. They are not native so it is a good idea to remove them if they are negatively effecting native fish populations.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Mushijobah said:


> Wow. How you got that I believe OP cannot keep fish from me explaining to ANOTHER member that no one has the right to fish or keep fish, we will never know. Congrats Massilon, you've outdone yourself! Re-read my original replies to avoid drawing ridiculous conclusions.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


More mumbo jumbo. Speak plainly if you expect people to understand you and don't act like I'm the only one questioning your ridiculous "right vs privilege" argument please. Others just choose not to address it since the topic is about catching some catfish in some creek in Ohio. 


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/right



> Definition of RIGHT
> 1
> : qualities (as adherence to duty or obedience to lawful authority) that together constitute the ideal of moral propriety or merit moral approval
> 2
> : something to which one has a just claim: as
> a : the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled <voting rights> <his right to decide>


So again, he has the RIGHT to go catch and eat those catfish


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## Mushijobah

MassillonBuckeye said:


> More mumbo jumbo. Speak plainly if you expect people to understand you and don't act like I'm the only one questioning your ridiculous "right vs privilege" argument please. Others just choose not to address it.


LOL. Ok buddy!


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

These threads make me want to eat bass and catfish to tell the truth.  OPs description of his catfish nuggets sound downright delicious!


----------



## sbreech

MassillonBuckeye said:


> These threads make me want to eat bass and catfish to tell the truth.  OPs description of his catfish nuggets sound downright delicious!


Catfish nuggets ARE delicious unless Mushi says they are not.  I haven't tried Musky bites yet, though.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

sbreech said:


> Catfish nuggets ARE delicious unless Mushi says they are not.  I haven't tried Musky bites yet, though.


I have and I couldn't tell them from the chatauqua perch I fried them with! So don't let no one tell you they taste bad cause they don't!!


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## Chuck P.

Does every freaking thread on this forum end up in a "you're wrong for doing whatever it is you're doing" argument?

The OP posted about one of HIS preferred fishing methods, on HIS preferred body of water, and what happened?

He has been called "ignorant" for keeping flatheads and bashed for setting trot lines LEGALLY. Hell, some have even admitted to committing crimes, yes crimes of cutting LEGAL trot lines and they don't seem to care, and the Mods must not care either 'cause not a word was said to anyone in this thread.

I swear I don't understand most of the peeps on here anymore. 
If you have nothing even remotely positive to say, just leave the threads alone. Make sense to anyone else or is there something I'm missing?

BTW- Good catch you made Sir. Glad YOU enjoy to fish you catch. Haters gonna hate no matter what I guess.

Go ahead and slap my hand for speaking my mind. Nothing I said is untrue, like it or not.

I think I'll go start a very long pay lake thread now, bashing bass fisherman, boat owners, and everyone else that doesn't agree with what I post. Bet a Mod won't take long to chime in on that thread.

Or how about a "all bank fisherman suck" thread? Bashing everyone that doesn't own a boat, yak, or canoe? 

Is there really any difference? Jumping off the soapbox now. Enjoy your forum, I highly doubt I'll ever log back on here. Enough is enough.


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## Sciotodarby

I truly am sorry I started this thread. I participate on a couple ag forums and I've never seen a thread go downhill this bad. There are some valid points brought up and I don't think it needs deleted, but a mod can move it to whatever forum he/she sees fit or delete. I never intended for it to go this route. I do say thank you to posters with the kind words on encouragement and congatulations. I appreciate them
Yes, I catch flatheads out of Darby and Deer Creek on trot and limb lines to eat. Where I fish, I know Im not hurting the population. 75% of the fish I catch on lines could never be caught on a rod and reel for 2 reasons. One is because the holes are too thick to fish with a pole and the other is because I'm on private properties that most generally I'm the only one that has permission to be on. I mentioned the name of the creek I caught that mess on because it's a central Ohio waterway. 
I'm not worried about people reading this thread and going out and setting lines and decimating populations. It takes skill, time, and effort to set lines. How many of the illegal lines everybody likes to cut have been in a good spot? About all the ones I see hanging are in poor locations that will only result in gar or a leatherback cleaning the hook or at the best a 2lb channel cat. 10 years ago there were a lot more line fisherman out there and they were mostly the generation that grew up in the 40's through the 60's and they're getting too old to do it anymore. It's a dieing sport.
As for people illegally selling to the paylakes- I definetly wouldn't worry about them hitting Darby or Deer Creek too hard. If theyve got any kind of sense in their criminal brains they'd hit the Scioto where you can sink a boat with the 20+ pounders that the pay lakes want in a good night of running lines.
My methods will work on any stream and I won't make them public, but if people want to PM me I'd be glad to share advice if they think they can handle the excitement.


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## Sciotodarby

And I will say this to guys floating in kayaks and canoes that are cutting lines. You do know that you have to have permission anywhere you get out of your boat to fish/take a leak, drop an anchor, or grab on to anything attached to the bottom or a tree growing out of the bank( to possibly cut a line)? You all are legal eagles enforcing set line rules so I thought I might tell you that to keep you out of trouble for trespassing. All you can legally do is float and fish without permission.


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## excalman

It never hurts keeping a few for the table. I keep a few bass in in the fall while fishing for s-eyes. Everyone make it a crime but one or two bass a fall is ok. I tell people at the fish fries there eating crappie and they love it.


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## Slab assassin 55

This thread was ridiculous some people fish to actually keep some to eat. By the reaction on this thread you would think he killed the last flathead in Ohio. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## rustyfish

Anchoring is equal to poaching. Good to know.
So next time I turn around in someones driveway I should go ahead and shoot a deer out of their feild while im there. Since its all the same. And your defence of unmarked line will only make people question your practice even more. 

I personally dont like limb lines or jugs. I think you should be allowed to have bank lines but the same number as poles which is 2. I have picked up many unmarked lines and jugs this year along with the rest of the trash that I pick up. I guess according to you I would be stealing that trash from the land owner. But the law is what it is. So anyone that does it legally is not going to catch crap for it from me. Its your right and you didn't make the law. Im all for peoples right to harvest fish as long as it is done responsibly. But I would not be surpised when people have a bad reaction to someone using 10, 20, or 50 lines when others are doing it with two. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Mr. A

Slab assassin 55 said:


> This thread was ridiculous some people fish to actually keep some to eat. By the reaction on this thread you would think he killed the last flathead in Ohio.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


No no no.... Not yet! LOL

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Sciotodarby

I never defended illegal lines. I just asked the question of how many have been seen in good spots. Untagged, unattended illegal lines give my sport a blackeye amongst other anglers.
You can fly off the handle about illegal lines but I can't mention the crime of trespassing when a boat is anchored? I can say I follow all the laws. Can you? From reading your posts, you seem like a guy that is as passionate about your sport as I am mine. I can cast many bad words about people floating the creeks and trespassing and littering. Ask any landowner along any stream who they have more of a problem with- guys floating and leaving trash and whatnot behind or somebody that hangs a few lines in the creek without permission. There are bad apples in every group that ruin it for everybody. But you don't want to see my side of set lines.


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## eatinbass

MassillonBuckeye said:


> These threads make me want to eat bass and catfish to tell the truth.  OPs description of his catfish nuggets sound downright delicious!


Massillon.....You know my stance on this and they truly are delicious.


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## Slyfly76

Scioto you don't have to defend yourself against ignorance, if you've broken no laws and want to keep some fish to enjoy than so be it and all the bashing sounds like a bunch of yuppy B.S. to me, long before fishing was a sport it was a means of subsistence and if the ODNR have deemed it legal to keep those fish who are you bash him? Short answer...NOBODY! By the way congrats on your flsh buddy!


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## acklac7




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## foton

Passionate dialogue is a sign of a healthy forum.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## USMC_Galloway

Not sure why people use the ODNR as a means to do something. Like any other government branch they are a reactive force, and not a proactive. They will change the limits when it is to little to late, taking a lot longer to recover from people because they couldnt police themselves. Same people that need "CAUTION THIS COFFEE IS HOT! " warnings on the hot coffee they just ordered. 


This all really just goes back to people never wanting to see a body of water named, especially ones so small as Darby, and Deer Creek. The rumors of those 2 flows being really nice flathead waters, has been around for ever, and the people that actually went to test the rumor, never posted about it on here. 

The largest downside of OGF is that it is searched by Google, and with a thread this big, it will surley pop up on gooding when you type in Flathead.. Actually lets test it ... type in "ohio flathead fishing" good ole OGF is the first site to pop up. I am sure this is the same for river smallies as well. So any window licker can type in those 3 words and be like, ohh Darby is an awesome/easy place to get some flatheads.


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## rustyfish

I assume your comparison was between trespassing and illegal lines therefore defending illegal lines.

I certainly would not consider kayak fishermen a trashy group.

And no I dont think you should be ridiculed for for just posting some pics of catfish caught on limb lines. But to not expect it seems a bit nieve. I would think most people recognize a difference in sport fishing and fish harvesting. Sure the two often cross paths but bank lines are clearly harvesting. 

In the big picture what you are doing may even be more explainable and more natural (fish=food). Its just not exactly what people some people want to see. Being reminded that large slow growing fish are being harvested reguarly out of local streams is not exactly going to put a smile on everyones face.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Sciotodarby

USMC_Galloway said:


> This all really just goes back to people never wanting to see a body of water named, especially ones so small as Darby, and Deer Creek. The rumors of those 2 flows being really nice flathead waters, has been around for ever, and the people that actually went to test the rumor, never posted about it on here.
> 
> The largest downside of OGF is that it is searched by Google, and with a thread this big, it will surley pop up on gooding when you type in Flathead.. Actually lets test it ... type in "ohio flathead fishing" good ole OGF is the first site to pop up. I am sure this is the same for river smallies as well. So any window licker can type in those 3 words and be like, ohh Darby is an awesome/easy place to get some flatheads.


Down here on the lower stretches, the word has been out for decades that you can catch shovelheads in Deer Creek and Darby. It's far far from easy, though. Permission is the biggest factor.


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## Sciotodarby

rustyfish said:


> I certainly would not consider kayak fishermen a trashy group.
> 
> I would think most people recognize a difference in sport fishing and fish harvesting. Sure the two often cross paths but bank lines are clearly harvesting.


Kayakers-Not some much trashy as trespassers.

You can't say it's not a sport until you've tried it.


----------



## striperfreak

i have limblined before, its not a sport, it is harvesting, which is legal, just not a good idea for conservation.


----------



## Sciotodarby

striperfreak said:


> i have limblined before, its not a sport, it is harvesting, which is legal, just not a good idea for conservation.


What if you throw them back? I throw everything back in the river. Do it just for fun to pile up some big ones for a pic and toss them back.


----------



## acklac7

Sciotodarby said:


> What if you throw them back? I throw *most *everything back in the river. Do it just for fun to pile up some big ones for a pic and toss them back.


In case you didn't notice teh internets are serious business, try and make your posts as accurate/truthful as possible ....Otherwise people will label you a Troll...


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## Sciotodarby

By river, I mean the Scioto. And I do throw everything back in the river.


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## StumpHawg

Sciotodarby said:


> What if you throw them back? I throw everything back in the river. Do it just for fun to pile up some big ones for a pic and toss them back.


Don't waste ur energy on these guys Keep doing the family tradition and don't get caught up in the internet hype


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## flathunter

Most people who love the sport of flathead catfishing..Dont support any method of catching them other than rod and real..and are strictly catch and release on all flatheads..As would bass fisherman, wallye fisherman, muskie etc would not support thease methods..And I am one of them...This is an age old argument that will never end..We just agree to disagree.


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## geoffoquinn

acklac7 said:


> In case you didn't notice teh internets are serious business, try and make your posts as accurate/truthful as possible ....Otherwise people will label you a Troll...


Who cares what people think? Every time you put something out there expect every opinion and value none.


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## CarpRule

Trot lines take the sport out of it and makes it more like commercial fishing. It is legal so we deal with it. I hate when. They are left in attended. I had a rusty hook go through my thumb had to push barb through, cut it off and pull hook out alone.  can make a person a bit jaded. 

Carpe Diem


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## Mr. A

Sciotodarby said:


> What if you throw them back? I throw everything back in the river. Do it just for fun to pile up some big ones for a pic and toss them back.


Then why spend the first10 pages talking about keeping them? The fact is you don't throw them all back because your one post has a pic showings you, at what I took to be to house, holding the cats.

People don't agree with you, so what; but flip flopping makes you look like a liar and you lose respect when that happens.


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## Sciotodarby

I keep them out of Darby and Deer Creek. I set lines just for fun in the Scioto, which is what I've said before.


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## Flathead King 06

Sciotodarby

There's no need to keep defending yourself man. What you have done is not illegal. Dont let internet bashing interfere with family tradition.


----------



## shwookie

Sciotodarby said:


> And I will say this to guys floating in kayaks and canoes that are cutting lines. You do know that you have to have permission anywhere you get out of your boat to fish/take a leak, drop an anchor, or grab on to anything attached to the bottom or a tree growing out of the bank( to possibly cut a line)? You all are legal eagles enforcing set line rules so I thought I might tell you that to keep you out of trouble for trespassing. All you can legally do is float and fish without permission.


Not true.

I have a legal right to free myself or avoid hazardous situations. 
if that means portaging around a dam like say at darby dan farms, or a tree fall. If some trotline that has been strung across a river entangles or snags me, I again have the ability to save myself.


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## MassillonBuckeye

Flathead King 06 said:


> Sciotodarby
> 
> There's no need to keep defending yourself man. What you have done is not illegal. Dont let internet bashing interfere with family tradition.


That and reading comprehension is lacking causing people to start namecalling????? Sigh.


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## MassillonBuckeye

USMC_Galloway said:


> This all really just goes back to people never wanting to see a body of water named, especially ones so small as Darby, and Deer Creek. The rumors of those 2 flows being really nice flathead waters, has been around for ever, and the people that actually went to test the rumor, never posted about it on here.
> 
> The largest downside of OGF is that it is searched by Google, and with a thread this big, it will surley pop up on gooding when you type in Flathead.. Actually lets test it ... type in "ohio flathead fishing" good ole OGF is the first site to pop up. I am sure this is the same for river smallies as well. So any window licker can type in those 3 words and be like, ohh Darby is an awesome/easy place to get some flatheads.


You are missing something bud.. The Darby isn't the only body of water people catch flatheads. So while yes, you can find info on flatheads being caught in ohio, you'll also find there are areas all over the state you can catch em. So no, it's not going to funnel 40,000(someone elses number) to one particular spot. You are going to seek out the areas more near you. How many people did ToledoRay send to the maumee with his 80# flathead pic? I see threads all the time talking about the LMR GMR etc for cats. Plenty of bodies of water in Northeast Ohio discussed. Unnamed Kayak guys talking about his holes on the Scioto.. All the cat guys talking about the Ohio River pools and Clendenning/Piedmont/Tappan for the East side of the state etc. No reason to flock to the Darby for a shot at catching a few flatheads. Makes no sense. Here's google top 10 results when searching "Flathead Catfish in Ohio. OGF ranked 1 page in the top 10.

1. www.dnr.state.oh.us/linkclick.aspx?link=6630&tabid=18809&#8206;
"Habitat and Habits
Adults prefer deep pools with slow current and cover, such as submerged logs and brush piles. They are found in large rivers in Ohio and are most abundant in the Maumee, Muskingum, Scioto, and Ohio Rivers. They can also be found in most of the larger reservoirs in the state. "

2. http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Default.aspx?tabid=21869

3.www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vxn3RAbYrM
"Big Flathead catfish caught on the Ohio river - YouTube"

4.www.youtube.com/watch?v=yveaPwKuRp8
"Places to look for flathead catfish on the Ohio River - YouTube"

5.www.gofishohio.com/articles/doc/doc_rivercurrent.php
"River Current and Flathead Catfish - Gofishohio"

6. http://www.gameandfishmag.com/2010/10/05/fishing_catfish-fishing_oh_aa074003a/
"Ohio's Top 10 July Catfish Lakes - Game & Fish Magazine"

7. http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=205444
"Northeast Ohio Flathead Catfish"

8. http://www.catfish1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115861
"Ohio state record flathead catfish"

9.http://www.wvdnr.gov/fishing/PDFFiles/Ohio River Catfish Mgmt Brief PICS.pdf
"Ohio River Catfish Assessment - West Virginia Division of Natur"

10. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flathead_catfish
"Flathead catfish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

Also to consider: This thread is labeled "Shovelhead". If you google Shovelhead Catfish Ohio, OGF isn't even on the map.. Until now probably


----------



## Deazl666

Regardless of whether it actually harms the fishery, it's an unwritten rule on this forum that the BD or the LD not be mentioned specifically in threads. I know I caught hell for doing it and I stopped once it was brought to my attention...

The only reason I responded to the OP's thread in the first place is because I care deeply about the creek, which is the one thing that's keeping me in Grove City...

I have no idea if harvesting flatheads is detrimental to the fishery, but I do know that C&R, which I support entirely, is all about erring on the side of caution by encouraging anglers to return fish unharmed to the water for the benefit of everyone...

The OP has stated repeatedly that the fish he is harvesting are otherwise uncatchable for anglers because they are in a difficult-to-access stretch of the creek and spend most of their lives hiding in structure that anglers can't cast into. I'm not a flathead expert, but this sounds to me like wishful thinking. I mean, I caught my creek flathead a few weeks ago on a swimbait below a riffle...


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## eatinbass

From "Right" to "Rules" this threads getting good.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Mushijobah

Deazl666 said:


> Regardless of whether it actually harms the fishery, it's an unwritten rule on this forum that the BD or the LD not be mentioned specifically in threads. I know I caught hell for doing it and I stopped once it was brought to my attention...
> 
> The only reason I responded to the OP's thread in the first place is because I care deeply about the creek, which is the one thing that's keeping me in Grove City...
> 
> I have no idea if harvesting flatheads is detrimental to the fishery, but I do know that C&R, which I support entirely, is all about erring on the side of caution by encouraging anglers to return fish unharmed to the water for the benefit of everyone...
> 
> The OP has stated repeatedly that the fish he is harvesting are otherwise uncatchable for anglers because they are in a difficult-to-access stretch of the creek and spend most of their lives hiding in structure that anglers can't cast into. I'm not a flathead expert, but this sounds to me like wishful thinking. I mean, I caught my creek flathead a few weeks ago on a swimbait below a riffle...


When an angler makes an assumption that they are the only ones to master a stretch of water, you can be certain that the angler isn't in touch with reality. By posting these assumptions on OGF, the angler is ensuring that he proves himself wrong very quickly.

It comes down to the same point again and again. Small streams like Deer Creek cannot continually produce (brood) apex predators that are extremely slow to mature. New batches may migrate from the Sci every spring, but that doesn't replace the maturing fish that were removed by anglers. Also, you cannot determine whether a flathead is a creek born fish or a river born fish by its color. They change color in a matter of hours, just like other fish exposed to clear or murky water.

On top of that, an influx of new flathead anglers could be heading to Deer Creek because of this thread. Maybe SciotoDarby can keep us updated on the little experiment. 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## MassillonBuckeye

Mushijobah said:


> When an angler makes an assumption that they are the only ones to master a stretch of water, you can be certain that the angler isn't in touch with reality. By posting these assumptions on OGF, the angler is ensuring that he proves himself wrong very quickly.
> 
> It comes down to the same point again and again. Small streams like Deer Creek cannot continually produce (brood) apex predators that are extremely slow to mature. New batches may migrate from the Sci every spring, but that doesn't replace the maturing fish that were removed by anglers. Also, you cannot determine whether a flathead is a creek born fish or a river born fish by its color. They change color in a matter of hours, just like other fish exposed to clear or murky water.
> 
> On top of that, an influx of new flathead anglers could be heading to Deer Creek because of this thread. Maybe SciotoDarby can keep us updated on the little experiment.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I don't think he ever said that. He said he has secured permission, and in some cases Sole permission to fish a particular area. I highly doubt in that case anyone else is "mastering" that stretch to the degree he has(caught a few fish?????) so about that reality...

Based solely on this thread, I wouldn't waste my time because it sounds like there are very few places to fish there. This guy has a productive spot and good for him.
Also anyone reading this thread and high tailing it to the Darby should realize the importance of conserving such a resource and take that into consideration when faced with the decision to take said 30# mercury laden catfish home for the dinner table.. Uh. Why are we trying to be so black and white with this?


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## Sciotodarby

Ill keep everybody updated. Just bought more hooks and line this morning at cabelas!
The holes I line are impossible to fish. You would have to cast across logs and branches to get to the good cover. The biggest issue is getting permission to be back in there in the first place. And Deals- I too care about the creek. I've fished it my whole life. I was wanting to name our daughter Darby, but my wife vetoed that so I had to settle for naming the dog. No need to be hush hush about the fishing on Darby. It's never been a secret down here on how the fishing is for smallies and catfish. I'm guessing you've never fished south of Darbyville.


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## TeamClose

Maybe if you guys didn't spend so much time on here belly aching and more time fishing you wouldn't worry so much about a law abiding sportsman. Focus on commercial fishing or getting the flathead limit changed and there wouldn't be so much hate going on towards a guy keeping fish within his limit. 

I catch and release thousands of pounds of flatheads a year but yes I do keep some for fish frys. Something has to kill you and if I die from smoking or drinking or eating a few flatheads, then I die happy. Everybody fails to remember Lake Erie was on fire not to many years ago and all rivers eventually drain into the ocean where your Red Lobster fish come from

Sciotodarby- congrats on the catch and thanks for not keeping all and the big fish!


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## Sciotodarby

shwookie said:


> Not true.
> 
> I have a legal right to free myself or avoid hazardous situations.
> if that means portaging around a dam like say at darby dan farms, or a tree fall. If some trotline that has been strung across a river entangles or snags me, I again have the ability to save myself.


I'm sure you never tie off or get out and wade a good hole without permission. What if it was a legally set line by someone with permission? Do you still cut it? Who has more "rights" then- you or me?


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## acklac7

Sciotodarby said:


> The holes I line are impossible to fish. You would have to cast across logs and branches to get to the good cover........................................................... .............................................................................................................I'm guessing you've never fished south of Darbyville.


Logs, branches, Fully submerged trees standing upright in the middle of a nasty, fast curve (with 90 degree banks on each side)

The end strech of the Darby is a whole different beast...Nasty through there. I wouldn't be caught dead floating it after dark in a yak/canoe, even at low flow.


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## Mushijobah

Sciotodarby said:


> Ill keep everybody updated. Just bought more hooks and line this morning at cabelas!
> The holes I line are impossible to fish. You would have to cast across logs and branches to get to the good cover. The biggest issue is getting permission to be back in there in the first place. And Deals- I too care about the creek. I've fished it my whole life. I was wanting to name our daughter Darby, but my wife vetoed that so I had to settle for naming the dog. No need to be hush hush about the fishing on Darby. It's never been a secret down here on how the fishing is for smallies and catfish. I'm guessing you've never fished south of Darbyville.


It's not the locals that you should be worried about that know about the catfish and smallies south of Darbydale. It's the metropolis to the NE. Many of us will tell you from experience. If an angler mentions a specific fishing location after a great day of catching (including photos, stories about the big one that got away, and presense of large smallies, saugeyes, and catfish) there is a chance that there will be 20 people there the next day. This happened to me back in the day. I was naive and mentioned a spot on a stream in Columbus and talked about our success with the saugeye. Literally an out of the way spot that only locals seemed to fish. The next day there were *17 *people fishing this tiny hole. The fishing has not been the same since! Only this year, after many years of poor fishing, did I get into a good number of saugeye there.

Some food for thought. Many others on here can share similar stories. Your private land spots might be safe, but expect more kayakers and trash from road access anglers.


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## acklac7

Mushijobah said:


> It's not the locals that you should be worried about that know about the catfish and smallies south of Darbydale. It's the metropolis to the NE. Many of us will tell you from experience. If an angler mentions a specific fishing location after a great day of catching (including photos, stories about the big one that got away, and presense of large smallies, saugeyes, and catfish) there is a chance that there will be 20 people there the next day. This happened to me back in the day. I was naive and mentioned a spot on a stream in Columbus and talked about our success with the saugeye. Literally an out of the way spot that only locals seemed to fish. The next day there were *17 *people fishing this tiny hole. The fishing has not been the same since! Only this year, after many years of poor fishing, did I get into a good number of saugeye there.
> 
> Some food for thought. Many others on here can share similar stories. Your private land spots might be safe, but expect more kayakers and trash from road access anglers.


This is all 100% accurate, however given the access/takeout/navigability/private property issues I would expect most people that go down to take a "once and done" attitude. I know I did. Again (not towards you Mushi) the Darby can get nasty down there and isn't what alot of guys on here are used to closer to Columbus.

As you, and others have said the biggest issue with a thread like this is Poachers going after them for Paylakes. Which is something the DNR has to address before things get out of hand, if they haven't gotten out of hand already.


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## acklac7

And on my one and only float from the last put-in @ the Darby to the takeout on the Scioto I can specifically recall saying to myself "Man I bet there's Flatheads/Musky in here, but for the life of me I can't picture a way to catch them" (with a rod and reel).


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## shwookie

Sciotodarby said:


> I'm sure you never tie off or get out and wade a good hole without permission. What if it was a legally set line by someone with permission? Do you still cut it? Who has more "rights" then- you or me?


Yes, I don't wade, and I surely don't tie off. I have a boat and can eddy out if 
i want to hover in a hole.

I've never seen a legally set line. Seriously, I have never seen one tagged.

If i'm snagged in a line, my right to exist supersedes your right to "fish". I can't believe you are seriously asking this question. You must be :T


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## shwookie

And for the record, 
i don't care if you use trotlines or not, if you are following the regulations, great. I would argue that you may be the only one doing so though.


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## Sciotodarby

shwookie said:


> Yes, I don't wade, and I surely don't tie off. I have a boat and can eddy out if
> i want to hover in a hole.
> 
> I've never seen a legally set line. Seriously, I have never seen one tagged.
> 
> If i'm snagged in a line, my right to exist supersedes your right to "fish". I can't believe you are seriously asking this question. You must be :T


I'm not trollin', I'm set lining! 
I'm not talking about a life or death situation(by all means do what is necessary in those situations), I'm talking if part of your boat or gear gets caught on a line. I bet you can really keep that boat in place to fish the base of the good riffles where I fish. I've never seen anybody be able to do it. 

Legal lines are few and far between. If it's not baited during the day, it's illegal. That's why I keep mine baited during the day, plus theres always the chance of picking up a few channel cats.


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## CarpRule

The horse is dead.:banghead:

Carpe Diem


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## eatinbass

TeamClose said:


> Maybe if you guys didn't spend so much time on here belly aching and more time fishing you wouldn't worry so much about a law abiding sportsman. Focus on commercial fishing or getting the flathead limit changed and there wouldn't be so much hate going on towards a guy keeping fish within his limit.
> 
> I catch and release thousands of pounds of flatheads a year but yes I do keep some for fish frys. Something has to kill you and if I die from smoking or drinking or eating a few flatheads, then I die happy. Everybody fails to remember Lake Erie was on fire not to many years ago and all rivers eventually drain into the ocean where your Red Lobster fish come from
> 
> Sciotodarby- congrats on the catch and thanks for not keeping all and the big fish!


I'm sorry, this site would get boring really quick if they fished more and whined less.....

Just to clarify. 

*whined * past participle, past tense of whine (Verb)
Verb

1.Give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound.
2.Complain in a *feeble *or petulant way.


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## Priorityfishing

Anyone here ever fish? 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## eatinbass

Priorityfishing said:


> Anyone here ever fish?
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I do, gotta eat somehow.


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## lordofthepunks

this has been a great thread...

a few things... as if anyone cares about my opinion... 

makes me sort of sick that people unapologetically harvest fish like the great shovelhead... there are few sport fish that I feel this way about and one is certainly the flathead catfish... as a bass fisherman, I would almost rather see largemouth bass being killed for food instead of flatheads, they are just so much more scarce, killing them seems wrong.

I also feel its completely ass backwards that people who tout themselves as "flathead kings" would advocate this behavior... these are sport fish, not dinner, if you want some catfish, go catch some channel cats.

there is nothing sporting about setting limb lines... NOTHING... I don't care how much you enjoy seeing the limbs bouncing the next day, anything you do that requires you to leave it sit for 12 hours while you sleep isn't sporting... its a harvest method and that's it..


so much b.s. in this thread its not even funny. flatheads are an awesome sportfish and anyone who claims to respect that but at the same time, kills 3 or 4 of them every time they set lines is just contradicting themselves.

and one last opinion... this is not a skillful art, like some are suggesting... go out and catch that sort of numbers on a rod and reel and I'll give you some props... a monkey could catch catfish on limb lines...


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## Sciotodarby

Do people apologize when they kill a Buckeye Big Buck? Not many of them around. Flathead is way better than channel cats. You can definitely tell the difference between the two. I never claimed to be any sort of king, but I can catch shovel heads with lines or a pole. If you think it doesn't take skill, you are ignorant of how it's done right. And I do love watching limbs bounce first thing in the morning. I don't always go home and go to bed. I stay out all night fishing quite a bit. Sometimes run the lines around midnight-1am. Judge me all you want, what I am doing is legal and a blast.


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## Salmonid

Lord, Ive stayed out of this fight because my opinion is just that.. but you pretty much summed up anything I would have said, thanks...
All I do is fish catfish tourneys for the last 10 years and your right, certain species demand a great respect because of low numbers, slow growth rates and heavy pressure, can you imagine if he was limb lining for wild stream muskies and keeping several per outing to eat...LOL ( Granted its legal but....) nuff said.. I have a rock to go crawl under...

Salmonid


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## eatinbass

Sciotodarby said:


> Do people apologize when they kill a Buckeye Big Buck? Not many of them around. Flathead is way better than channel cats. You can definitely tell the difference between the two. I never claimed to be any sort of king, but I can catch shovel heads with lines or a pole. If you think it doesn't take skill, you are ignorant of how it's done right. And I do love watching limbs bounce first thing in the morning. I don't always go home and go to bed. I stay out all night fishing quite a bit. Sometimes run the lines around midnight-1am. Judge me all you want, what I am doing is legal and a blast.


I'll bet some of the folks here C&R their deer also.....ya know shoot'em in the leg, take a picture with them and let'em go. Better to maim than eat.....


----------



## lordofthepunks

Sciotodarby said:


> Do people apologize when they kill a Buckeye Big Buck? Not many of them around. Flathead is way better than channel cats. You can definitely tell the difference between the two. I never claimed to be any sort of king, but I can catch shovel heads with lines or a pole. If you think it doesn't take skill, you are ignorant of how it's done right. And I do love watching limbs bounce first thing in the morning. I don't always go home and go to bed. I stay out all night fishing quite a bit. Sometimes run the lines around midnight-1am. Judge me all you want, what I am doing is legal and a blast.


deer are over populated, at times a nuisance, can be a danger, are heavily regulated, grow faster, yield more meat and provides a rush that cannot possibly be matched by sleeping in your bed while a fish is grabbing one of the 50 lines you've set...


there is absolutely no correlation.... none...


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## lordofthepunks

and I am not ignorant to how its done.... I choose not to do it because I am not after a feast...


you should just be glad you are in the minority... if everyone was doing this, you wouldn't have any shovelheads to eat anymore...


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## Sciotodarby

I said Buckeye Big Buck, not just any deer. Like I've said 100 times, the sections of creeks I set lines on have healthy populations of flatheads.


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## lordofthepunks

Sciotodarby said:


> I said Buckeye Big Buck, not just any deer. Like I've said 100 times, the sections of creeks I set lines on have healthy populations of flatheads.




right, your extensive scientific studies have shown that...


and "buckeye big bucks" have already passed on their genes... like I said, there is absolutely nothing in common with what you are doing and killing a trophy buck...


----------



## shwookie

> I bet you can really keep that boat in place to fish the base of the good riffles where I fish. I've never seen anybody be able to do it.


There is a current line and besides, I can be downstream and still hit it. I don't have to be in the hole itself. My rod and reel can cast.

But I get you want to make this thread about trespassing and not poaching a slow growing, slow reproducing fish, thats cool.


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## supercanoe

An Ohio big buck only reached that size because he lived. Your comparison is a contradiction. You are not the only one fishing that area.


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## missionfishin

/QUOt from my SGH-S959G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## missionfishin

lordofthepunks said:


> this has been a great thread...
> 
> a few things... as if anyone cares about my opinion...
> 
> makes me sort of sick that people unapologetically harvest fish like the great shovelhead... there are few sport fish that I feel this way about and one is certainly the flathead catfish... as a bass fisherman, I would almost rather see largemouth bass being killed for food instead of flatheads, they are just so much more scarce, killing them seems wrong.
> 
> I also feel its completely ass backwards that people who tout themselves as "flathead kings" would advocate this behavior... these are sport fish, not dinner, if you want some catfish, go catch some channel cats.
> 
> there is nothing sporting about setting limb lines... NOTHING... I don't care how much you enjoy seeing the limbs bouncing the next day, anything you do that requires you to leave it sit for 12 hours while you sleep isn't sporting... its a harvest method and that's it..
> 
> 
> so much b.s. in this thread its not even funny. flatheads are an awesome sportfish and anyone who claims to respect that but at the same time, kills 3 or 4 of them every time they set lines is just contradicting themselves.
> 
> and one last opinion... this is not a skillful art, like some are suggesting... go out and catch that sort of numbers on a rod and reel and I'll give you some props... a monkey could catch catfish on limb lines...


i respect your opinion and your admiration for the flathead, i wish people felt this strongly about killing trophy bucks over bait piles.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## sbreech

lordofthepunks said:


> right, your extensive scientific studies have shown that...
> 
> 
> and "buckeye big bucks" have already passed on their genes... like I said, there is absolutely nothing in common with what you are doing and killing a trophy buck...


.....and a "trophy" flathead, well into mature adulthood, would have passed on their "trophy genes" over many spawns. Even if he WERE taking THE largest, oldest, apex predator each year, another would grow back to fill that slot. Judging by what the man says he is doing, it is more like slot fishing for largemouth. Leave the tiny and huge, take the more abundant smaller mid size fish.

And sporting? Maybe not to some, but he is catching, having fun, practicing partial catch and release, and doing it legally. Everyone can climb on their pedestal and wear their burger king crown of self proclaimed fishing ethics, but in the end, we're all fishing and some of us will kill a fish or two in our lives.


----------



## lordofthepunks

missionfishin said:


> i respect your opinion and your admiration for the flathead, i wish people felt this strongly about killing trophy bucks over bait piles.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


that's a whole another topic.... 

I have as much respect for trophy bucks as I do for flatheads...

so much so that in my opinion, the only true trophy buckhunters out there hunt with a compound or long bow, non of that crossbow crap...


limb lining with 50 lines = canned hunt with a machine gun
limb lining with 2 lines = canned hunt with a regular gun
catching a flathead on a rod by accident = killing buck with a shotgun during season
targeting/catching trophy flathead with rod and reel = killing monster buck with a bow...


----------



## Lundy

lordofthepunks said:


> that's a whole another topic....
> 
> I have as much respect for trophy bucks as I do for flatheads...
> 
> so much so that in my opinion, the only true trophy buckhunters out there hunt with a compound or long bow, non of that crossbow crap...
> 
> 
> limb lining with 50 lines = canned hunt with a machine gun
> limb lining with 2 lines = canned hunt with a regular gun
> catching a flathead on a rod by accident = killing buck with a shotgun during season
> targeting/catching trophy flathead with rod and reel = killing monster buck with a bow...


Be glad that your options at least matter to you, that's important


----------



## lordofthepunks

sbreech said:


> .....and a "trophy" flathead, well into mature adulthood, would have passed on their "trophy genes" over many spawns. Even if he WERE taking THE largest, oldest, apex predator each year, another would grow back to fill that slot. Judging by what the man says he is doing, it is more like slot fishing for largemouth. Leave the tiny and huge, take the more abundant smaller mid size fish.
> 
> And sporting? Maybe not to some, but he is catching, having fun, practicing partial catch and release, and doing it legally. Everyone can climb on their pedestal and wear their burger king crown of self proclaimed fishing ethics, but in the end, we're all fishing and some of us will kill a fish or two in our lives.


take a look at those pics again breech and tell me that two of those flatheads aren't "tiny"


----------



## Sciotodarby

lordofthepunks said:


> right, your extensive scientific studies have shown that...
> 
> 
> and "buckeye big bucks" have already passed on their genes... like I said, there is absolutely nothing in common with what you are doing and killing a trophy buck...


Haven't the flatheads already spawned? I guess you let big bucks walk pre rut, then?


----------



## lordofthepunks

sbreech said:


> .....and a "trophy" flathead, well into mature adulthood, would have passed on their "trophy genes" over many spawns. Even if he WERE taking THE largest, oldest, apex predator each year, another would grow back to fill that slot. Judging by what the man says he is doing, it is more like slot fishing for largemouth. Leave the tiny and huge, take the more abundant smaller mid size fish.
> 
> And sporting? Maybe not to some, but he is catching, having fun, practicing partial catch and release, and doing it legally. Everyone can climb on their pedestal and wear their burger king crown of self proclaimed fishing ethics, but in the end, we're all fishing and some of us will kill a fish or two in our lives.


and for the record, most slot regularions PROTECT the smaller more abundant mid size fish....


----------



## shwookie

> practicing partial catch and release


How much life is left in a fish that has been fighting for hours though?


----------



## Sciotodarby

shwookie said:


> There is a current line and besides, I can be downstream and still hit it. I don't have to be in the hole itself. My rod and reel can cast.
> 
> But I get you want to make this thread about trespassing and not poaching a slow growing, slow reproducing fish, thats cool.


Please explain how I'm poaching? I'm not trying to make it about trespassing. I'm just stating how most guys that float end up trespassing.


----------



## lordofthepunks

Sciotodarby said:


> Haven't the flatheads already spawned? I guess you let big bucks walk pre rut, then?


dude, you really need to do yourself a favor and quit trying to equate the two...

they have nothing in common...

and yeah,,, I would let a big buck walk pre rut because I don't deer hunt.


----------



## Sciotodarby

shwookie said:


> How much life is left in a fish that has been fighting for hours though?


Plenty. I'd say they're better off than a bass or catfish at a tournament that have spent hours in a live well, handled rough at weigh in and released without acclimating to the water temp.


----------



## Sciotodarby

lordofthepunks said:


> and for the record, most slot regularions PROTECT the smaller more abundant mid size fish....


Which has a better chance of getting the best nesting sites and protecting the nest- an 8-10lb fish that I keep or the 20+ pounders I turn loose?


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

lordofthepunks said:


> deer are over populated, at times a nuisance, can be a danger, are heavily regulated, grow faster, yield more meat and provides a rush that cannot possibly be matched by sleeping in your bed while a fish is grabbing one of the 50 lines you've set...
> 
> 
> there is absolutely no correlation.... none...


Sure there is. I wouldn't kill a huge majestic buck. Not gonna eat him, no reason to hang him on the wall. I just want some meat for the table.


----------



## lordofthepunks

Sciotodarby said:


> Which has a better chance of getting the best nesting sites and protecting the nest- an 8-10lb fish that I keep or the 20+ pounders I turn loose?


so now we are going to debate what size fish is best at finding and protecting a spawning area? seriously.... im going to say what you should say... I have no clue because ive never had the opportunity to watch flathead catfish spawn... I would only be guessing because I have never scuba dived with shovelheads...


----------



## shwookie

Sciotodarby said:


> Please explain how I'm poaching? I'm not trying to make it about trespassing. I'm just stating how most guys that float end up trespassing.


You're right. IF you follow the regulations, you are not poaching, 
I should of used something different there, my apologizes. Not being sarcastic. If you are the one guy setting lines legally then great, I guess. The problem I have is that I have floated hundreds of times and have never seen a legally set line. Never. That being said, I would be mad as hell if some people told me I was wrong when I knew I was within my rights to do something. Feel free to carry on without me at this point, and good luck. I just have to be honest and say I don't approve of the practice and if I had my way the regs would be changed. Personally with the rise in popularity of boating, its only a matter of time before the regs are adjusted. 

You are also right about most people end up trespassing on a float.

Can you just do me a favor and tell some of the yahoos setting lines to pull them out when not in use?


----------



## Mushijobah

Sciotodarby said:


> Plenty. I'd say they're better off than a bass or catfish at a tournament that have spent hours in a live well, handled rough at weigh in and released without acclimating to the water temp.


Is this theory the result of one of your famous self conducted scientific studies, or was it a random thought while swilling crap beer and munching bland flathead nuggets?? :T


----------



## lordofthepunks

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Sure there is. I wouldn't kill a huge majestic buck. Not gonna eat him, no reason to hang him on the wall. I just want some meat for the table.


yeah, and thieving crackheads are the good guys....


don't complain the next time you plow into a deer on the freeway...


----------



## shwookie

Sciotodarby said:


> Plenty. I'd say they're better off than a bass or catfish at a tournament that have spent hours in a live well, handled rough at weigh in and released without acclimating to the water temp.


I'd sorta disagree due to the fact that the lactic acid build up in fish hooked for hours from a slow moving hole on the Darby in the summer would be substantial.

Tourney fishing is another topic lol.


----------



## Mushijobah

lordofthepunks said:


> so now we are going to debate what size fish is best at finding and protecting a spawning area? seriously.... im going to say what you should say... I have no clue because ive never had the opportunity to watch flathead catfish spawn... I would only be guessing because I have never scuba dived with shovelheads...


lol...the dude has a ridiculous counter argument to any valid point made. I'm not sure if it's worth going down the rabbit hole in arguing with people who have trouble with logic...it might be contagious


----------



## lordofthepunks

I need to go to bed.... I have a long drive in the morning and I need to be alert for that drive, god forbid a giant flathead catfish wonder onto the highway...


----------



## Sciotodarby

Mushijobah said:


> Is this theory the result of one of your famous self conducted scientific studies, or was it a random thought while swilling crap beer and munching bland flathead nuggets?? :T


Bland? Bland? Whatttt? They are out of this world, fine sir. I don't do scientific studies, I just rely common sense and more real world experience than just sticking an extension cord in the creek a few times.


----------



## Mushijobah

More like a few thousand times. Let me guess where you stand on Bigfoot...


----------



## Sciotodarby

Mushijobah said:


> More like a few thousand times. Let me guess where you stand on Bigfoot...


Bigfoot has ran my lines a couple times. I guess he's a lazy fisherman who likes to drink swill beer and eat flatheads,too.


----------



## Deazl666

I would also like to add that a flathead suffers needlessly if it spends hours struggling on a limbline. And the suffering makes even less sense if the fish is released when the line is checked in the a.m. I think this type of fishing is justifiable only when you need to put food on the table...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Sciotodarby

Deazl666 said:


> I would also like to add that a flathead suffers needlessly if it spends hours struggling on a limbline. And the suffering makes even less sense if the fish is released when the line is checked in the a.m. I think this type of fishing is justifiable only when you need to put food on the table...
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


A flathead is a very,very hardy fish. I haven't concluded my endurance test of them because the tread mill hasn't came in yet, but ima just ah guessin' that they can handle a whole lot.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

lordofthepunks said:


> that's a whole another topic....
> 
> I have as much respect for trophy bucks as I do for flatheads...
> 
> so much so that in my opinion, the only true trophy buckhunters out there hunt with a compound or long bow, non of that crossbow crap...
> 
> 
> limb lining with 50 lines = canned hunt with a machine gun
> limb lining with 2 lines = canned hunt with a regular gun
> catching a flathead on a rod by accident = killing buck with a shotgun during season
> targeting/catching trophy flathead with rod and reel = killing monster buck with a bow...


What's the difference between sitting there with 2 poles in rod holders passed out drunk or rigging and setting 2 limb lines? Besides the obvious.. But somehow one is more sporting? You act like its automatic or something. You must also be against any sort of trapping anything for the sheer lack of sport. Absolutely nothing difficult or sporting involved with the rigging and placement of the lines then getting the fish from line to boat. But there's something sporting about casting an umbrella rig a few hundred times a day catching a few largemouth? Gotcha! Golf a sport? NASCAR?


----------



## Big Joshy

Alright we obviously have a disagreement here.
Here is my solution.

OGF needs a separate set line/ trot line/jug line forum. Just like they have a separate bowfishing forum.

I myself would never set lines or want to hear a report from someone who did. It would not be relevant to me at all. I guess maybe this thread would really be more at home in the trapping forum I guess since that is basically what this is.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

lordofthepunks said:


> yeah, and thieving crackheads are the good guys....
> 
> 
> don't complain the next time you plow into a deer on the freeway...


Sorry bud but I've hit a big buck with a car thanks! I also dodge them regularly up near Alum. Lol. It don't change anything one iota other than I plan on hunting here this fall.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye

Big Joshy said:


> Alright we obviously have a disagreement here.
> Here is my solution.
> 
> OGF needs a separate set line/ trot line/jug line forum. Just like they have a separate bowfishing forum.
> 
> I myself would never set lines or want to hear a report from someone who did. It would not be relevant to me at all. I guess maybe this thread would really be more at home in the trapping forum I guess since that is basically what this is.


While we're at it, can we also make a forum for "gutshot/badshot i cant find my maimed runaway deer"? Those are the only ones I Really regret clicking on..


----------



## eatinbass

MassillonBuckeye said:


> While we're at it, can we also make a forum for "gutshot/badshot i cant find my maimed runaway deer"? Those are the only ones I Really regret clicking on..


How bout gut hooked and maimed Darby Bronzebacks thread?


----------



## PARK92

Is this a PETA site? You all sound like a bunch of women who synced up on their monthleys and let loose on this guy. Jesus if everyone spent this much time on anything else it would be considered a fulltime job.


----------



## StumpHawg

lordofthepunks said:


> I need to go to bed.... I have a long drive in the morning and I need to be alert for that drive, god forbid a giant flathead catfish wonder onto the highway...


Or a weasel with its tail tucked between its legs....


----------



## acklac7

MassillonBuckeye said:


> While we're at it, can we also make a forum for "gutshot/badshot i cant find my maimed runaway deer"? Those are the only ones I Really regret clicking on..





eatinbass said:


> How bout gut hooked and maimed Darby Bronzebacks thread?


I got a good lol...


----------



## acklac7

Deazl666 said:


> I would also like to add that a flathead suffers needlessly if it spends hours struggling on a limbline. And the suffering makes even less sense if the fish is released when the line is checked in the a.m. I think this type of fishing is justifiable only when you need to put food on the table...





Sciotodarby said:


> A flathead is a very,very hardy fish. I haven't concluded my endurance test of them because the tread mill hasn't came in yet, but ima just ah guessin' that they can handle a whole lot.


Yea, Flatheads are about the toughest fish that swims in Ohio's waterways


----------



## acklac7

Also im not usually for trot/limblines but once you see these holes for yourself you will quickly realize there is little other choice then to set one...

As long as them flattlies don't ingest the hooks (im hoping you're using circle hooks) they will likely do fine for a few hours on limbline.


----------



## fshman_165

...This guy is following the letter of the law...he has been doing this for 10 years....sounds like the flattie population is still healthy..and before any of you "biologists" start attacking me...I don't care how much "experience" you have..you want to prove the man wrong..do it and shut up.


----------



## Salmonid

BTW, flatheads typically are around 15 lbs when they first spawn just like Blues. Age can be anywhere from 5-7 years before they reach that size. I might add that typically in Ohio the flathead spawn is during July and August. Were still seeing beat up fish and egg layers right now

Salmonid


----------



## BigFish614

Nice catch!

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Sciotodarby

I'd rather float the creek setting lines than race across the lake with 50 other boats in a tournament. I'm sure all the bass in a tournament survive after the release. How many lakes have bass and catfish tourneys had a detrimental effect on? There's pros and cons to all fishing, but i guess lines are the red headed stepchild of angling. At least I can say I'm not after any monetary gain when I'm out setting lines to catch a few cats to eat.


----------



## Mushijobah

acklac7 said:


> Also im not usually for trot/limblines but once you see these holes for yourself you will quickly realize there is little other choice then to set one...
> 
> As long as them flattlies don't ingest the hooks (im hoping you're using circle hooks) they will likely do fine for a few hours on limbline.


You're acting like some of us have never ventured to the lower darby. 104 to Circleville ramp is a great float that I've done before. There's plenty of ways to fish these holes other than sprawled out lazy-style on a sandbar with beer. It would take some effort (see sporting). It would take dropping live fish or fresh shad into holes between logs with a very stout rod. It aint impossible, I'm sorry. How do you feel about people keeping multiple flatheads between Griggs and the Post Office Dam? Or limb liners between those dams? If people knew the amount of nice fish through that stretch, I be you would start seeing lines hanging from trees, shopping carts, etc.


----------



## Mushijobah

Sciotodarby said:


> I'd rather float the creek setting lines than race across the lake with 50 other boats in a tournament. I'm sure all the bass in a tournament survive after the release. How many lakes have bass and catfish tourneys had a detrimental effect on? There's pros and cons to all fishing, but i guess lines are the red headed stepchild of angling. At least I can say I'm not after any monetary gain when I'm out setting lines to catch a few cats to eat.


There you go comparing apples and oranges. let's do a comparison. try to stay with me. i'll be using parenthesis AND brackets.

stream vs man-made lake (size, scale, sensitivity to runoff, breeding habitat)

largemouth bass vs flathead catfish (size, age/size ratio, age of sexual maturity, growth rate, lifespan, native [flathead] vs non-native [man made lake, stocked largemouth])

tournaments vs what you do (bass must be released alive or else penalty or disqualification, 10-20 year old flathead are kept alongside 2-4 year old channel cats all in the name of psuedo-science and good old boy habits [incorrectly labeled "common sense"])


----------



## jray

i cannot believe a guys first post can get blown into a 200 reply mega thread like this. For goodness sakes state your opinion and then if you dont like it, dont click on it! Mushi i noticed you tagged out last year. I know some people who find it unethical to kill that many deer. Is it illegal? nope. But people could argue all day on deer populations and affect of taking does and so on. The point is people disagree almost universally when the subject of ethics is brought up. They also disagree on population health and size because the critters don't tell us how many of them there are! State your opinion and leave the guys thread alone!


----------



## Mushijobah

fshman_165 said:


> ...This guy is following the letter of the law...he has been doing this for 10 years....sounds like the flattie population is still healthy..and before any of you "biologists" start attacking me...I don't care how much "experience" you have..you want to prove the man wrong..do it and shut up.


He was already proven wrong. Every assertion and claim he's made or comparison has been rebuked with an even better counterargument. He then turns and twists what he originally said to cover his tracks. Typical denial behavior.

The negative responses to his post were originally a warning about two things:

1. Keeping multiple mature flatheads from small streams.
2. Advertising locations on said streams.

I could care less if he keeps channel cats. I could care less if he keeps a few flatheads for that matter. Don't bring that crap onto this website and start naming creeks and thinking you're the only one that fishes them. Typical newb behavior, and a stubborn newb at that. If you don't like the advice, you can expect criticism.


----------



## ostbucks98

this is our society in a nutshell. having a difference in opinion means attacks on ones intelligence,beliefs and upbringing. No one person is more right than the other and to each their own.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Mushijobah

jray said:


> i cannot believe a guys first post can get blown into a 200 reply mega thread like this. For goodness sakes state your opinion and then if you dont like it, dont click on it! Mushi i noticed you tagged out last year. I know some people who find it unethical to kill that many deer. Is it illegal? nope. But people could argue all day on deer populations and affect of taking does and so on. The point is people disagree almost universally when the subject of ethics is brought up. They also disagree on population health and size because the critters don't tell us how many of them there are! State your opinion and leave the guys thread alone!


I got two deer. How is that tagging out? A hunter is able to get over 10 deer in a year. THAT is tagging out.

Now, since you stated your opinion, no need to reply, right?


----------



## Sciotodarby

Every post and valid point I've made has been countered with slams, babble and rhetoric. I assume you had permission to put in at the old trailer park on 104? Bass might be released alive, but how many survive? How many lakes have been ruined by tournaments for bass and cas? I'm sure ill get some babble and not straight answers to that question.


----------



## lordofthepunks

Sciotodarby said:


> Every post and valid point I've made has been countered with slams, babble and rhetoric. I assume you had permission to put in at the old trailer park on 104? Bass might be released alive, but how many survive? How many lakes have been ruined by tournaments for bass and cas? I'm sure ill get some babble and not straight answers to that question.


Awesome question... Go ahead and start naming all of the lakes ruined by tournament fishing.... This year has been a remarkable year for tournament fishing in Ohio, weights ive never seen before on inland lakes are bocoming common... NOBODY has done and is doing more for CONSERVATION (a term you seem to have issues with) than the tournament world... As Alan from the Hangover would put it ..... "Not nobody"


----------



## ostbucks98

Mushijobah said:


> I got two deer. How is that tagging out? A hunter is able to get over 10 deer in a year. THAT is tagging out.
> 
> Now, since you stated your opinion, no need to reply, right?


300k hunters chased 800k deer around last year.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## lordofthepunks

Look in the mirror and ask yourself a simple question...what would things be like if EVERYBODY was doing what your doing...

If the answer is that it would prob be bad, maybe you shouldn't be doing it...


----------



## Mushijobah

Sciotodarby said:


> Every post and valid point I've made has been countered with slams, babble and rhetoric. I assume you had permission to put in at the old trailer park on 104? Bass might be released alive, but how many survive? How many lakes have been ruined by tournaments for bass and cas? I'm sure ill get some babble and not straight answers to that question.


0% in cool water, 16% in warm water. From a non Ohio study. 5% (spring) to 10% (summer) in another study.

The common theme of each study is mortality has fallen over time as bass anglers have modernized and continued to understand how their activities effect the bass. In simpler words....If I treat the bass nice like, I will catch more next time. Not sure if this is catching on with trotliners.

Try google next time for research. It's more effective than common sense.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/documents/tournaments/TournamentMortalityCullingEffects.pdf 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6FNucqEdQDCB78r2w&sig2=c2QH0_lxxP5YCcdZY7hc0Q

http://tnfish.org/TournamentFishingTennessee_TWRA/files/TournamentMortalityBettoli.pdf


----------



## lordofthepunks

ostbucks98 said:


> 800k hunters chased 300k deer around last year.
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Lol, where's you pull those numbers from? Your rear end possibly?

Estimated deer population is between 700 and 800k. And has been steadily rising for years...


Jesus H. There is no comparison to deer hunting here... What is wrong with you people


----------



## Mushijobah

lordofthepunks said:


> Lol, where's you pull those numbers from? Your rear end possibly?
> 
> Estimated deer population is between 700 and 800k. And has been steadily rising for years...
> 
> 
> Jesus H. There is no comparison to deer hunting here... What is wrong with you people


Ha! Hopefully he was making a joke.


----------



## lordofthepunks

Mushijobah said:


> 0% in cool water, 16% in warm water. From a non Ohio study. 5% (spring) to 10% (summer) in another study.
> 
> The common theme of each study is mortality has fallen over time as bass anglers have modernized and continued to understand how their activities effect the bass. In simpler words....If I treat the bass nice like, I will catch more next time. Not sure if this is catching on with trotliners.
> 
> Try google next time for research. It's more effective than common sense.
> 
> http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/documents/tournaments/TournamentMortalityCullingEffects.pdf
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6FNucqEdQDCB78r2w&sig2=c2QH0_lxxP5YCcdZY7hc0Q
> 
> http://tnfish.org/TournamentFishingTennessee_TWRA/files/TournamentMortalityBettoli.pdf


Wait wait wait a minute... There is no room for actual evidence on this thread... Only conjecture and made up numbers can exist in the world of interweb


----------



## ostbucks98

damn i had the numbers backwards. 
i meant 300k hunters chased 800k deer. hate when that happens.

it does relate that mushi is crying foul saying that if everyone was to swarm the darby and keep flats it would exhaust the population..but this is the same guy who has argued about filling tags in the past.
so im pointing out the state sold 900k deer tags last year. this doesnt include nuisant permits. with a stroke of luck it is entirely possible to decimate the deer heard in a single season based on numbers. All about credibility.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## SeanStone

Big Joshy said:


> Alright we obviously have a disagreement here.
> Here is my solution.
> 
> OGF needs a separate set line/ trot line/jug line forum. Just like they have a separate bowfishing forum.
> 
> I myself would never set lines or want to hear a report from someone who did. It would not be relevant to me at all. I guess maybe this thread would really be more at home in the trapping forum I guess since that is basically what this is.


I tried to suggest that on an earlier thread.....I caught some heat for it. I do agree 100 percent though.

Lordofthepunks......first off: youve gained respect points here. Tournament bass guys typically dont like flathead, so its awesome to see one who does. Secondly: you will quickly learn that there are some battles that should be left alone...and paylaking, cimercial fishing, limblinning, etc...are all on that list.. I too have spent hours trying to convince people that what they are doing is wrong......but to no avail. The only thing I gained was the attention of moderators. You will notice that Mark....salmanoids.... first post he said he tried to stay away from the issue and that he would go crawl back under a rock. Marks probably one of the most knowledgeable and experienced cat guys in south west ohio. Its sad that he feels that his opinions need to be left unspoken. ..but thats the way it is turning out. I have turned my cheek to many posts that I should have commented on, but in fear of starting an argument I did not. (Not in relation to this post per say) 

I feel bad because I am so pationate about the sport of fishing....bass, catfish, carp, etc. I like to target them all. I guess Its like watching an old lady get robbed and doing nothing about it. Am I a bad person for not sticking up for the sport? Maybe so, but thats a different conversation.


----------



## eatinbass

Sciotodarby said:


> I'd rather float the creek setting lines than race across the lake with 50 other boats in a tournament. I'm sure all the bass in a tournament survive after the release. How many lakes have bass and catfish tourneys had a detrimental effect on? There's pros and cons to all fishing, but i guess lines are the red headed stepchild of angling. At least I can say I'm not after any monetary gain when I'm out setting lines to catch a few cats to eat.


AMEN, Brother. 



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## Mushijobah

ostbucks98 said:


> damn i had the numbers backwards.
> i meant 300k hunters chased 800k deer. hate when that happens.
> 
> it does relate that mushi is crying foul saying that if everyone was to swarm the darby and keep flats it would exhaust the population..but this is the same guy who has argued about filling tags in the past.
> so im pointing out the state sold 900k deer tags last year. this doesnt include nuisant permits. with a stroke of luck it is entirely possible to decimate the deer heard in a single season based on numbers. All about credibility.
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Not sure where I advocated tagging out. I love deer, why would I want them to be gone? I shoot two a year. Once I shot one in Indiana, making my total 3. You sure you're talking about the same guy? Sure, some urban areas need thinned out, but come on. You sure you're not just making things up like others in this thread?


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## Sciotodarby

lordofthepunks said:


> Awesome question... Go ahead and start naming all of the lakes ruined by tournament fishing.... This year has been a remarkable year for tournament fishing in Ohio, weights ive never seen before on inland lakes are bocoming common... NOBODY has done and is doing more for CONSERVATION (a term you seem to have issues with) than the tournament world... As Alan from the Hangover would put it ..... "Not nobody"


Does your arm hurt from patting yourself on the back ? You've got google, look up the issues with tournaments. I understand conservation because if I didn't, I'd be keeping everything under 35in that I catch. Can't a sustainable harvest be part of conservation?


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## ostbucks98

SeanStone said:


> I tried to suggest that on an earlier thread.....I caught some heat for it. I do agree 100 percent though.
> 
> Lordofthepunks......first off: youve gained respect points here. Tournament bass guys typically dont like flathead, so its awesome to see one who does. Secondly: you will quickly learn that there are some battles that should be left alone...and paylaking, cimercial fishing, limblinning, etc...are all on that list.. I too have spent hours trying to convince people that what they are doing is wrong......but to no avail. The only thing I gained was the attention of moderators. You will notice that Mark....salmanoids.... first post he said he tried to stay away from the issue and that he would go crawl back under a rock. Marks probably one of the most knowledgeable and experienced cat guys in south west ohio. Its sad that he feels that his opinions need to be left unspoken. ..but thats the way it is turning out. I have turned my cheek to many posts that I should have commented on, but in fear of starting an argument I did not. (Not in relation to this post per say)
> 
> I feel bad because I am so pationate about the sport of fishing....bass, catfish, carp, etc. I like to target them all. I guess Its like watching an old lady get robbed and doing nothing about it. Am I a bad person for not sticking up for the sport? Maybe so, but thats a different conversation.


well this is your problem and some of the others in this thread!!!! wake up people. some see fishing as a "sport" and others view it as a food source. Your never gonna agree and your never gonna make the other side agree. i fish only to catch and release but im not gonna bash people who harvest game. its all a matter of opinion. i have 80 year old guys telling me how much better fishing is today then 50 years ago then i talk to 25 year olds who tell me the end is near,lol.

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## eatinbass

Mushijobah said:


> There you go comparing apples and oranges. let's do a comparison. try to stay with me. i'll be using parenthesis AND brackets.
> 
> stream vs man-made lake (size, scale, sensitivity to runoff, breeding habitat)
> 
> largemouth bass vs flathead catfish (size, age/size ratio, age of sexual maturity, growth rate, lifespan, native [flathead] vs non-native [man made lake, stocked largemouth])
> 
> tournaments vs what you do (bass must be released alive or else penalty or disqualification, 10-20 year old flathead are kept alongside 2-4 year old channel cats all in the name of psuedo-science and good old boy habits [incorrectly labeled "common sense"])


You don't think they hold tournaments on rivers? And yes, several of the fish die furring this event for monetary gain. I've seen it first hand.


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## eatinbass

Mushijobah said:


> I got two deer. How is that tagging out? A hunter is able to get over 10 deer in a year. THAT is tagging out.
> 
> Now, since you stated your opinion, no need to reply, right?[/
> 
> 
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## KaGee

This one has gone far enough.


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