# oct. muzzleloader hunt



## tadluvadd (Feb 19, 2012)

Just read where ODNR is considering a statewide muzzleloader season in oct. for next year.it would be antlerless only in early or mid october.the regular muzzleloader season would still be unchanged. the other idea according to what i read is doing away with the bonus weekend hunt in mid december.what do you all think?:!


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## Walleye 3 (Jul 2, 2005)

I dont like the idea. I hunt public land and dont need the deer run off right before the rut. I also like the extra gun weekend and dont want a change there either. What is wrong with the regs we already have? Are we not taking enough does with archery that we need a muzzleloader weekend during a time of year where the leaves are still on and you cant see more than 30 yards. Doesnt make sense to me.

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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Personally I like the idea. I hope they do it.
When I was young, I know a couple of shots wouldn't run me off of the rut.


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

I like the idea pending it's a one deer limit and remains antlerless only. If they have it no later than the 3rd week in Oct. it should not effect the rut activity on a piece of property.


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## treytd32 (Jun 12, 2009)

Late October was when all of the bigger bucks I saw started coming out during daylight. I don't like the idea much because the week after gun, muzzy, etc. they werent coming out until 2am.

But everyones experience is different


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## Juwayne22 (Jun 10, 2009)

Assuming they institute an anterless muzzy season, will we still be able to take bucks with a bow during said muzzy season?


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

Juwayne22 said:


> Assuming they institute an anterless muzzy season, will we still be able to take bucks with a bow during said muzzy season?


That raises a good question. If they allow bucks to be taken at this time with archery equipment I can forsee quite a few being checked in as archery kills when in fact they were shot with a muzzleloader


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Snook said:


> That raises a good question. If they allow bucks to be taken at this time with archery equipment I can forsee quite a few being checked in as archery kills when in fact they were shot with a muzzleloader


Muzzy season or not, that can still happen.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

The ODNR stated that that it would be doe only during this season, including bowhunters. I kind of hope that the whole thing goes away.


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

I think it's the dumbest thing they have ever proposed.


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## billk (Feb 2, 2008)

I voted against a statewide MZ doe season on teh hunter survey they sent two years ago. Bad idea then and even worse now, IMO.


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## gpb1111 (Feb 19, 2005)

Who proposes these things. Is their a forum that the ODNR gets the publics opinion other than surveys? 

A little off topic but, I wish they would do a late season trophy buck tag. Start it after gun season and restrict the buck to a minimum of 4 pts on one side. Bow only.

$0.02

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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

gpb1111 said:


> Who proposes these things. Is their a forum that the ODNR gets the publics opinion other than surveys?
> 
> A little off topic but, I wish they would do a late season trophy buck tag. Start it after gun season and restrict the buck to a minimum of 4 pts on one side. Bow only.
> 
> ...


There are the March Open House Hearings at all of the district head quarters.


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

crappiedude said:


> Muzzy season or not, that can still happen.


No doubt in my mind that it is happening


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## FISHIN 2 (Jun 22, 2005)

If they want more does culled, all they have to do is allow the 15.00 tag to be used during ANY season type, problem solved. Never anything simple @ ODNR though. Someone there must have gotten their vacation dates changed around , Mike


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

FISHIN 2 said:


> If they want more does culled, all they have to do is allow the 15.00 tag to be used during ANY season type, problem solved. Never anything simple @ ODNR though. Someone there must have gotten their vacation dates changed around , Mike


????
There's nothing wrong with changing things up every now and then. Ky has an Oct muzzleloader hunt for buck and doe. I think it would be great to have the opportuity to do something different. How cool would that be to hunt over a bean field with a muzzle loader.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

ODNR just pulling more strings on the marionettes


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## Lungbuster (Apr 8, 2012)

You can thank insurance companies for the doe kill...and from what I understand is the new head of odnr comes from the agriculture side of things. I know public land get hit extremely hard during gun seasons...they would be hard to hunt after an early one. Also, I spend quite a few days in a tree every year and I know there are less deer than 3 years ago regardless of the #'s they feed us. 


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

FISHIN 2 said:


> If they want more does culled, all they have to do is allow the 15.00 tag to be used during ANY season type, problem solved. Never anything simple @ ODNR though. Someone there must have gotten their vacation dates changed around , Mike


..agreed...i never understood why they didnt let us use that 15$ tag during gun season.


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## AEFISHING (Apr 25, 2004)

crappiedude said:


> ????
> There's nothing wrong with changing things up every now and then. Ky has an Oct muzzleloader hunt for buck and doe. I think it would be great to have the opportuity to do something different. How cool would that be to hunt over a bean field with a muzzle loader.


I agree. I hunt Kentucky and it is fun to be able use the smoke pole in Oct. for one weekend.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

AEFISHING said:


> I agree. I hunt Kentucky and it is fun to be able use the smoke pole in Oct. for one weekend.


I don't know why every one gets so negative every time the state want to try something new. How do folks know they won't like the new stuff even better?
I used to hunt the Ky muzzle loader season, it was a blast. It was the 1st time I ever used a "call in deer check". I though WOW, now these guys are on to something.
Watch all our fields we hunt get planted in corn this year...LOL


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## AEFISHING (Apr 25, 2004)

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/New...ed-Hunting-Hours-and-Bag-Limit-Proposals.aspx

Yes I love telecheck!


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## luv fishing (Mar 5, 2009)

i really dont like the idea, because it will have the deer spooked. but the one reason i do like it is because the farm i bowhunt only is surrounded by public so it may push the deer on the farm i hunt


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

FISHIN 2 said:


> If they want more does culled, all they have to do is allow the 15.00 tag to be used during ANY season type, problem solved. Never anything simple @ ODNR though. Someone there must have gotten their vacation dates changed around , Mike





crappiedude said:


> ????
> There's nothing wrong with changing things up every now and then. Ky has an Oct muzzleloader hunt for buck and doe. I think it would be great to have the opportuity to do something different. How cool would that be to hunt over a bean field with a muzzle loader.


Seconded. Besides, as the population dynamics of the deer herd changes, so will the regs. The way I'm reading this is, if anything it could result in a reduction of the harvest and allow the herd to bounce back a little. There will be no more than 1 antlerless permit for each county. If you want to take any more antlerless deer, you have to use the higher priced either sex permit if available. That's if you also want to have a tag available for a buck. For 8 counties that's not happening. For 23 counties there will be 1 extra available tag, and for 57 counties there will be 2 available, provided that you want to buy them. And, as I understand it, the urban zones are going away as well.



Fishlandr75 said:


> ..agreed...i never understood why they didnt let us use that 15$ tag during gun season.


Fish and fish, did it occur to either of you that maybe the ODNR *didn't* want more does culled and that's why they had the antlerless tags expire before gun season?


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## bigeye1 (Nov 13, 2007)

I'm not sure if I like this or not. However I gotta believe that the kill for a 2 day muzzle only is gonna be less than the extra gun weekend. 


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

bigeye1 said:


> I'm not sure if I like this or not. However I gotta believe that the kill for a 2 day muzzle only is gonna be less than the extra gun weekend.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I think thats the whole idea. Herds have been beat up pretty good the last few years.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

crappiedude said:


> I think thats the whole idea. Herds have been beat up pretty good the last few years.


There are no provisions in the proposed changes that are intended to reduce overall harvest. 

The ODNR is still on a herd reduction plan, they have never stated anything to the contrary. They have stated that they are on a more balanced buck to doe ratio quest however.

The limit reductions have little impact because so few kill over 3 deer much less 4 or more. The limit could have been 20 deer last year and the harvest would have been virtually the same, just as the reduction from 6 to 4 or 3 will accomplish little in the way of harvest reduction. The data provided by the ODNR on hunter harvest is readily available and clearly shows this to be the case.


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

I like the proposed regulations. Their justifications make sense to me.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Lundy said:


> There are no provisions in the proposed changes that are intended to reduce overall harvest.


I do agree with that and I also agree that changing the limits aren't going to make any difference in the harvest just for the reasons you say. My partner and I kill 3-5 deer every year and have been doing it for to many years to remember.
My point simply was that a 2 day muzzleloader doe only season is probably going to have less of an impact on the deer herd than the (previous) 2 day buck/doe season in mid Dec.
If you really look at it they did pick 1 of 2 seasons. I feel if they wanted to smack the deer even harder they would do them both.
Of course this is just my opinion and I have no idea what the true impact will be, only time will tell. To be honest, during or after the season I'm not going to analize kills or records from the past or present seasons. I'm going to leave all that to the DNR and their biologist.

My general opinion on this whole thread has been "don't be so quick to put down new seasons or different ideas". If you've hunted as long as you (Lundy) and I have, there have been a bunch of changes over those year. Just to name some the of the changes, the use of doe tags, adding crossbows, antlerless deer tags(with out applying for doe tags), adding Sunday hunting, adding pistols and on and on. If I look back over the years all of these changes came with some degree of anxiety that our herds or our hunting were doomed. "The sky is falling"

I do like the idea of the new opportunity to hunt with a muzzleloader in Oct but it will come with challenges for sure, corn will be standing making some fields impossible to hunt and actually the majority of trees and shrubbs will still have leaves on them. Visibility will be reduced so it may not be as easy as we think. Whatever happens, I plan on hunting weather it's bow, crossbow or muzzleloader.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't think the sky is falling and these new regs will not impact my hunting in any way.


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

crappiedude said:


> I do agree with that and I also agree that changing the limits aren't going to make any difference in the harvest just for the reasons you say. My partner and I kill 3-5 deer every year and have been doing it for to many years to remember.
> My point simply was that a 2 day muzzleloader doe only season is probably going to have less of an impact on the deer herd than the (previous) 2 day buck/doe season in mid Dec.
> If you really look at it they did pick 1 of 2 seasons. I feel if they wanted to smack the deer even harder they would do them both.
> Of course this is just my opinion and I have no idea what the true impact will be, only time will tell. To be honest, during or after the season I'm not going to analize kills or records from the past or present seasons. I'm going to leave all that to the DNR and their biologist.
> ...


Just don't shoot that wall hanger buck when he steps out. 

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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Lundy said:


> I don't think the sky is falling and these new regs will not impact my hunting in any way.


Lundy - That comment wasn't really directed at you. I read most of your posts and enjoy them. I see comments from some guys and it seems they think that "the powers to be" want our deer populations wiped out to satisfy the ins industries. The income from deer season is too important to the DNR to put it at risk. Like you, I have see so many changes over the years and listened to all the debates attached to them. When some of these younger guys get older, hopefully they we see that change is inevitible and not always bad. 
What I see when I look at the harvest totals, it looks like this past year hunters took a few less deer than the previous year. It would be hard for me to determine exactly why. Too many factors to consider eg; are aging hunter spending less time in the field (I personally hunted about 1/2 as much), did food sources change hot spots, are less hunters in the field, with an improving economy are more people working and just don't have the time?



crittergitter said:


> Just don't shoot that wall hanger buck when he steps out.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Crittergetter - why would you even make that comment? You don't know me. FYI, I am a very ethical hunter. I don't poach, I check in all my deer and I never exceed the limits. I actually set my limits way lower than the legal limit. I have passed on so many oppotunities to kill some very good bucks simply because I have already tagged another buck earlier in the season.
I do hunt private land. On a normal year, I'm no closer than 1/2 mile from the nearest road and probably more than that to the nearest house. Its very secluded. The land owners where I hunt could care less what or how many deer we kill. I do have the opportunity to break all the above rules, myself and my hunting partner just choose not to.
From your past posts I've read it seems you had a tough season; so what - it happens, get over it. You do seem like "the sky is falling" type of guy.
PS, if I do kill a wall hanger it will be completely legal.


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## Flatty01 (Aug 9, 2008)

Not in favor of the early muzzy season. Will educate the deer right before the rut begins. Also, wouldve liked to see something done to address the lak of deer on the public lands.


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

crappiedude said:


> Lundy - That comment wasn't really directed at you. I read most of your posts and enjoy them. I see comments from some guys and it seems they think that "the powers to be" want our deer populations wiped out to satisfy the ins industries. The income from deer season is too important to the DNR to put it at risk. Like you, I have see so many changes over the years and listened to all the debates attached to them. When some of these younger guys get older, hopefully they we see that change is inevitible and not always bad.
> What I see when I look at the harvest totals, it looks like this past year hunters took a few less deer than the previous year. It would be hard for me to determine exactly why. Too many factors to consider eg; are aging hunter spending less time in the field (I personally hunted about 1/2 as much), did food sources change hot spots, are less hunters in the field, with an improving economy are more people working and just don't have the time?
> 
> 
> ...


I have no idea why you responded defensively. Whether I had my best or worst season wouldn't change my opinion. It's absurd to regulate against filling a buck tag if the opportunity presents itself. The sky isn't falling at all. I'll just go some place else. That's fine. I didn't want to donate any more money to the farm bureau..........er, I mean ODNR anyway. 

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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

crittergitter said:


> Just don't shoot that wall hanger buck when he steps out.


I responded defensively due to the implication that I would be tempted to shoot a buck with my muzzleloader duing the 2 day doe only season which I could assure you, would never happen.


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

gpb1111 said:


> *Who proposes these things. Is their a forum that the ODNR gets the publics opinion other than surveys?*
> 
> A little off topic but, I wish they would do a late season trophy buck tag. Start it after gun season and restrict the buck to a minimum of 4 pts on one side. Bow only.
> 
> ...


Ohio Farm Bureau proposes these things. They have far more influence than public opinion. IMO, these new regs are proof of this. It has hunters actually believing that the new regs are an attempt to lower harvest, when nothing could be further from the truth.


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Lundy said:


> There are no provisions in the proposed changes that are intended to reduce overall harvest.
> 
> The ODNR is still on a herd reduction plan, they have never stated anything to the contrary. They have stated that they are on a more balanced buck to doe ratio quest however.
> 
> The limit reductions have little impact because so few kill over 3 deer much less 4 or more. The limit could have been 20 deer last year and the harvest would have been virtually the same, just as the reduction from 6 to 4 or 3 will accomplish little in the way of harvest reduction. The data provided by the ODNR on hunter harvest is readily available and clearly shows this to be the case.


Very well said!


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

Lundy said:


> There are no provisions in the proposed changes that are intended to reduce overall harvest.
> 
> The ODNR is still on a herd reduction plan, they have never stated anything to the contrary. They have stated that they are on a more balanced buck to doe ratio quest however.
> 
> ...





reo said:


> Very well said!


So, OK, if they set the limit at 20 this year then everybody would have been happy? No, just a different, or maybe the same, bunch of people would have been screaming. I've been hunting a long time and have seen this State change from one buck a year, to one buck or doe a year, to a buck and a doe a year, to multiple deer, to buck or doe the first 3 days of gun season and buck only thereafter in some counties, and buck or doe the whole gun season in other counties, and every permutation and combination you can possibly name! And in every case somebody screamed blue, bloody murder! 

And the comments about the early MZ season "educating" or "spooking" all the deer make me laugh. More times than I can recall I've seen deer react to gunfire by, not reacting at all!! They didn't even raise their heads to respond to gunfire by nearby small game hunters or squirrel hunters. Sheesh! some guys want to act like they're hunting in a virgin wilderness!


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

buckeyebowman said:


> So, OK, if they set the limit at 20 this year then everybody would have been happy? No, just a different, or maybe the same, bunch of people would have been screaming. *I've been hunting a long time and have seen this State change from one buck a year, to one buck or doe a year, to a buck and a doe a year, to multiple deer, to buck or doe the first 3 days of gun season and buck only thereafter in some counties, and buck or doe the whole gun season in other counties, and every permutation and combination you can possibly name! And in every case somebody screamed blue, bloody murder!
> *
> And the comments about the early MZ season "educating" or "spooking" all the deer make me laugh. More times than I can recall I've seen deer react to gunfire by, not reacting at all!! They didn't even raise their heads to respond to gunfire by nearby small game hunters or squirrel hunters. Sheesh! some guys want to act like they're hunting in a virgin wilderness!


I took my first deer 35 years ago. I too have been hunting a long time and have never said a peep about the ever evolving deer regs until now. Why? Because until the last few years none of these changes resulted in a noticeable difference in my deer sightings while hunting. At first I thought it was just a run of bad stand selection or that I was getting careless about my setups but on every forum that I go to there are hunters sharing the same experiences. A lot of them. Clearly the herd size has been reduced. It is the opinion of many license buying hunters that the herd has been reduced too much and it is clear from these changes in the regs that the state does not care about the opinions of those that buy the licenses. So yes, I will scream as loud as I can until the state cares about the interests of hunters more than the interests of the farm bureau and insurance lobby.


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

crappiedude said:


> I responded defensively due to the implication that I would be tempted to shoot a buck with my muzzleloader duing the 2 day doe only season which I could assure you, would never happen.


I did not imply anything. You just took it the wrong way.


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

Let's just keep an open mind and see how it goes. After a few years of the new changes, everything can be re-evaluated. If it sucks that much, it can be changed to something else.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Jigging Jim said:


> Let's just keep an open mind and see how it goes. After a few years of the new changes, everything can be re-evaluated. If it sucks that much, it can be changed to something else.


Yep.
If the population trends continue to decline, hunter participation will also decline. The DNR needs hunters to generate income so they can operate. Only time will tell what the balance will be.


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## AEFISHING (Apr 25, 2004)

Just think what the future of a muzzeloaders will look like soon. I know it is already pretty advanced but with all these states going to muzzeloader seasons they will only get better. I am not sure why they don't just allow for single shot slug guns as well.


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

I have not seen anything from the state saying they have any desire to reverse or to stop the current trend of declining populations. Because of this I believe it is reasonable to assume they will continue to decline as this has been the ODNR's stated goal. Until they say otherwise and adjust the regs accordingly they will continue to hear my displeasure. Any deer hunter that does not want to wait and see and would like to see these trends reversed before people just give up should also let their voice be heard. The lower the population goes the longer it will take to rebound. As a matter of fact the state is actually asking for input and concerned hunters can make their comments here:
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/LawSubhome/ProposedRuleChanges/tabid/24075/Default.aspx

Just scroll to the bottom and click on the link


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

I think it is a horrible proposal.... Gun hunting in October then 2 times in November. I think it only makes it harder for Bow hunters. Not to mention how hot it is that time of year. The processers will do very well.

I don't think anyone will cheat and shoot the giant buck during doe only early Muzzy season.. They might get caught when they call it in a day or 2 days later. You know all those people that might see it when they call it in... 

Give me a break!


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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

wildman said:


> I don't think anyone will cheat and shoot the giant buck during doe only early Muzzy season.. They might get caught when they call it in a day or 2 days later. You know all those people that might see it when they call it in...
> 
> Give me a break!


Although convienent.....I am NOT a fan of the self check system! There will alway's be poachers BUT this surely did not make it any harder for em'. And then there's that internet tag which is good for multiple deer if you process them yourself The ODW has to come up with a better way to deter such activity. C'mon man!!! lol


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## Bassnpro1 (Apr 6, 2004)

Snook said:


> Although convienent.....I am NOT a fan of the self check system! There will alway's be poachers BUT this surely did not make it any harder for em'. And then there's that internet tag which is good for multiple deer if you process them yourself The ODW has to come up with a better way to deter such activity. C'mon man!!! lol


There used to be a metal tag that was good for multiple deer if you processed them yourself.... The tag number is simply printed on a different material.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Bassnpro1 said:


> There used to be a metal tag that was good for multiple deer if you processed them yourself.... The tag number is simply printed on a different material.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Not with a buck, they were on the rack... Then, if I walked into someones house the rack on the wall had a tag on it... Now people could be showing off a poached one and nobody will know...

Either way I said my peice and I'm done


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

AEFISHING said:


> Just think what the future of a muzzeloaders will look like soon. I know it is already pretty advanced but with all these states going to muzzeloader seasons they will only get better. I am not sure why they don't just allow for single shot slug guns as well.


Probably because a single shot slug gun can be reloaded much more quickly than can a muzzleloader.



reo said:


> I have not seen anything from the state saying they have any desire to reverse or to stop the current trend of declining populations. Because of this I believe it is reasonable to assume they will continue to decline as this has been the ODNR's stated goal. Until they say otherwise and adjust the regs accordingly they will continue to hear my displeasure. Any deer hunter that does not want to wait and see and would like to see these trends reversed before people just give up should also let their voice be heard. The lower the population goes the longer it will take to rebound. As a matter of fact the state is actually asking for input and concerned hunters can make their comments here:
> http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/LawSubhome/ProposedRuleChanges/tabid/24075/Default.aspx
> 
> Just scroll to the bottom and click on the link


No doubt hunter input is important, but, even more important is hunter behavior! Here's a novel idea. Suppose we deer hunters go back into an older mode of hunting? Suppose we utilize the idea that we don't have to shoot every deer we're legally entitled to? What might that do to the ODNR's plans and projections? Case in point. We have permission to hunt a 90 acre farm that abuts my buddy's 9 acre property. My buddy hasn't shot a doe since Hector was a pup! I will shoot does, but only one a year off this particular property. Thus, there are deer galore! 

I suppose it may be too much to ask. That hunters limit themselves rather than banging away toward a limit that the State "allows". 



wildman said:


> I think it is a horrible proposal.... Gun hunting in October then 2 times in November. I think it only makes it harder for Bow hunters. Not to mention how hot it is that time of year. The processers will do very well.
> 
> I don't think anyone will cheat and shoot the giant buck during doe only early Muzzy season.. They might get caught when they call it in a day or 2 days later. You know all those people that might see it when they call it in...
> 
> Give me a break!


There won't be 2 times in November. The 2 day "bonus gun weekend" is going away. And as you pointed out, the Oct. muzzleloader antlerless hunt will fall right in what I, and others, call the "October lull". Yes, it can be warm that time of year, thus the "lull". I've shot deer in other seasons during warmer times, and I've always managed to get the deer processed without losing any. Just takes a little effort.

As far as poaching goes, well, it's a reality we just have to deal with. The ODNR does. As well as the legal, checked in harvest of deer, they have to figure in poached deer, deer that died of natural causes, and road kill. There's lots of way for a deer to die out there that doesn't involve us.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

buckeyebowman said:


> Probably because a single shot slug gun can be reloaded much more quickly than can a muzzleloader.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you forget about Youth Gun weekend????


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

wildman said:


> Did you forget about Youth Gun weekend????


You're absolutely right! I did forget about it. I stand corrected. Besides, now that I think about it, the bonus gun weekend occurred in December! DUH!


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

buckeyebowman said:


> You're absolutely right! I did forget about it. I stand corrected. Besides, now that I think about it, the bonus gun weekend occurred in December! DUH!


LOL 

yea, Bow hunting skidish deer. Wait! Nocturnal comes to mind........


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Wildman, don't you hunt Clermont/Brown Counties. 
I don't know about you but I hear shooting all day it seems when I'm hunting. There a couple of guys in southern Clermont that shoot all the time, it sounds like a firefight going on. One guy has to have a 50 cal that he shoots at some point during the weekend and the other guy has to have at least a few bursts of fully auto. Some days I'm surprised I don't have flashbacks.
I really don't think a few shots with a muzzleloader are going to bother these deer that much. I honestly think I hear less shooting during the gun seasons now than I did 20 years ago. I know I see less vehicles traveling now.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

The deer don't seem to mind the shooting. It's the people running around in the woods that lock them down. We have shot ar's and such all day and that same afternoon I will see deer in the back yard.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Guy's they have deer run out on the range at the Miami pistol and rifle club in the middle of the shoot's... It is different when the 50 cal is fling at them... They know.... Your right the shooting never ends out there. 

I have a friend that is a naturalist. He hikes and runs the trail's all the time.... He thought it would be easy to deer hunt... Well he went out with us for gun season. He hunted for 4 day's with us and never seen a deer. Point is the deer know when they are being Hunted. When the deer next to them drops and dies word seems to get around to the rest.LOL

I would rather/wish they don't add this to the season.. Ohio use to lead now we just follow the other state's.


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

wildman said:


> Guy's they have deer run out on the range at the Miami pistol and rifle club in the middle of the shoot's... It is different when the 50 cal is fling at them... They know.... Your right the shooting never ends out there.
> 
> I have a friend that is a naturalist. He hikes and runs the trail's all the time.... He thought it would be easy to deer hunt... Well he went out with us for gun season. He hunted for 4 day's with us and never seen a deer. Point is the deer know when they are being Hunted. When the deer next to them drops and dies word seems to get around to the rest.LOL
> 
> I would rather/wish they don't add this to the season.. Ohio use to lead now we just follow the other state's.


You do have a point. Deer don't give a crap about guns going off, it's the abundance of human scent in the woods that freaks them out. I've seen it first hand! It's like an old timer told me, "Fish don't spook when a boat goes over them! Fishing for fish is what spooks 'em!" That's why I think this early MZ season just might work in our favor. It's not that easy hunting then. Corn's up, canopy is still on, it's warmer, and deer aren't really moving during the day. Add to that the fact that bow hunters are mostly stand bound and not everybody has a MZ. We'll see.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Yea, we will see what effects the early muzzy season will have on the rest of the season.. Time will tell... 

I just go by the what my grandfather (he raised me) always said as I tinkered with something that wasn't broke...... "Son, if it's not broke don't try to fix it" I would say "I'm just trying to make it better" and he would say "it's working well now, how much better do you want it." I usually broke it trying to make it better. LOL But what did I know..... 

My point is Ohio has done very well improving the heard and it trophy bucks so why fix something that isn't broke.. IMO it really doesn't get much better. Raise the havest # then lower it down when needed. It isn't rocket science! Hell, I went to school for it and really it is all about the herd #'s/havest #'s. 

I could go on and on... It is common sense. If there is not a fear on getting caught at the check in station then more people will cheat checking in there deer. Add that to a doe only season. I am sure it will be cheated by more people. Oh yea more people struggling with money & no human check in system = more cheating...JMO I see it, why doesn't anyone else.. No video or physical proof GW does nothing.... I know from experance.... Cheaters will be cheaters but with these lazy laws there will be more cheaters cheating... The old laws and reg's IMO helped get Ohio the quality deer hunting that it has today.. In the past...A guy that has 5 big bucks on the wall without a metal tag's on 2 them I question it.. Now who knows it they are ligit..


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## Carpman (May 18, 2005)

You guys can keep writing these books as posts all you want. Do you guys really think DNR hasn't thought of every scenario you guys brought up in this thread? If it wasn't for the best they would not propose it. If it does happen you know every one of you will be in the woods with a smoke pole wearing orange during the new date. Adapt to the new season is all you have to do.


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## wildman (Sep 3, 2008)

Carpman said:


> You guys can keep writing these books as posts all you want. Do you guys really think DNR hasn't thought of every scenario you guys brought up in this thread? * If it wasn't for the best they would not propose it. * If it does happen you know every one of you will be in the woods with a smoke pole wearing orange during the new date. Adapt to the new season is all you have to do.


I bag to differ... I read a statement from the DNR where they stated the early Muzzy season would help lower deer/car wrecks.... Who is it best for the Inc. Company's or hunters???????!%


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## Shad Rap (Nov 10, 2010)

After this year- do away with early muzzleloader hunt, bring gun season in two days early, keep the youth hunt for the kids, keep the late muzzleloader season.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Shad Rap said:


> After this year- *do away with early muzzleloader hunt, bring gun season in two days early*, keep the youth hunt for the kids, keep the late muzzleloader season.


That does not meet the ODNR objective to increase the targeting of does to continue reduce population and to move closer to their stated goal of a buck to doe ratio closer to 1/1

The early MZ is doe only for a reason.

Again, not saying I agree or support these actions, just stating the facts.


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## Fishalot (Mar 24, 2007)

Just my opinion, I do think they need to open more state park land open for bow only hunting in the areas were the majority of the over population seems to be. And impose a rule that you have to take a doe or a number of does in a givin area before taking a buck. Lets pin point the areas in need of control. A short early season for muzzleloader I believe would have a minimal at best affect on the population. I have been fortunate to have been able to hunt the same peice of property for over 25 years. A few years back the state purchased a large chunk of land and opened it for public hunting that is in direct contact of the land we hunt. At first it wasnt bad, but after a few years now you can see a huge change in the population... the buck to doe ratio is down but so is the general population. It sucks. And this did not happen over night nor from just a bonus weekend of gun hunting but from constant hunting pressure on a daily basis. Our state has such a broad range of terrain and population density that it if it does happen it should be confined to areas that trully need it!!!


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

Carpman said:


> You guys can keep writing these books as posts all you want. Do you guys really think DNR hasn't thought of every scenario you guys brought up in this thread? *If it wasn't for the best they would not propose it.* If it does happen you know every one of you will be in the woods with a smoke pole wearing orange during the new date. Adapt to the new season is all you have to do.


Really? Because government entities always do what is "best"??????

Best for who? The Farm Ohio Bureau? The Insurance lobby? The hunters?


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## bad luck (Apr 9, 2009)

reo said:


> Really? Because government entities always do what is "best"??????
> 
> Best for who? The Farm Ohio Bureau? The Insurance lobby? The hunters?


There are many (including the ODNR themselves) who feel the ODNR never does wrong, is perfect, and the model by which all other states should strive to be......


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I don't like it simply because it is doe only. Like many I just know I'll have that buck I've been looking for walk by. We have discussed as a group and we are not hunting it and have chosen to make it an additional youth hunt. We are taking the young ones out that weekend......again just hoping for luck so we don't have to tell a kid they can't take their first buck. It is just crappy!


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