# Maumee river saugeye? (picture)



## fishfray

ok... im trying to get it to upload.


Im not sure if it worked or not, but if it did i see a dark blotch at the back of the first dorsal(walleye trait). Also, it has dark blotches on the sides and all of the fins are covered with decent size spots (sauger trait). The tail has a noticable white blotch (walleye trait). I didnt see if there were scales on the cheeks or not. IMO i dont think you could get a walleye or sauger with all of these traits. I could be wrong, im far from being an expert. I caught two of these on the same day below g.r. dam, and they were very similar.


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## Mushijobah

More likely a sauger. Rare!

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## fishfray

It worked! But its tiny... sorry guys its the best i could do. I dont know if you can see the traits or not (especially if your viewing from an ipod or something) but i can.


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## Mushijobah

http://www.outdoorblog.net/outinmic...tempting-sauger-re-introduction-in-lake-erie/ 

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## M.Magis

I won&#8217;t pretend to be anything close to an expert, but doesn&#8217;t the white tip of the tail exclude a straight sauger as a possibility? I can&#8217;t see the picture very well, but I would have guessed saugeye.


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## Bucket Mouth

rutnut245 said:


> It's a saugeye. We've been catching them at the dam for some time now. There are also a few walleyes in the mix. I can almost guarantee the fish had scales on it's cheeks They are also much darker than the resident walleyes. I haven't caught a sauger in the river in many years although a friend of mine was catching a few in early March.
> Even though they are saugeyes,most of the fish are smaller like a sauger. Just like walleye they have to be 15" to be kept. Most of the ones I've been catching were around 14".


Check out the one I posted up in the other thread about this topic. Me and a handful of my friends have been catching them from May through last month sporadically. That one has no scales on its cheeks. I can blow up the pic of the head if you want a better look. That fished measured around 19" (tough to hold the tape and the fish in the middle of the river).

I will say that the OP's pic looks to be a darker fish than the one I posted or that sdkohio posted, but it's tough to tell from the size of the pic file.

I am also no expert but I think it'd be wierd to not catch saugers, but catch saugeye that require one sauger as a parent (if that makes sense).


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## Mushijobah

M.Magis said:


> I wont pretend to be anything close to an expert, but doesnt the white tip of the tail exclude a straight sauger as a possibility? I cant see the picture very well, but I would have guessed saugeye.


Sauger have a white tip, although less defined.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/SpeciesGuideIndex/sauger/tabid/6749/Default.aspx

I'm still going with sauger. Scales on cheek is no way to determine whether it is a sauger or saugeye. Body shape and lack or presence of spots on the dorsal membrane denote a saugeye vs. sauger.

Without a better pic, we will never know. More than likely a sauger though. A nice one.


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## KaGee

SAUGEYE:








Description
Saugeye are intermediate in appearance between their two parent species, the sauger and walleye. The best character to look at for identifying this hybrid is the dark bars or oblong vertical spots between the spines of the first dorsal fin. The membrane of this fin in the unmarked areas is often a dusky color and not as clear as that of a sauger. A large dusky spot at the rear base of the first dorsal fin is usually visible on a saugeye but not as clearly defined as it is on a walleye. Saugeye have dark laterally oblong blotches on their sides but they tend to be smaller than those of a sauger. Saugeye also have white tips on the lower part of the tail and anal fins. These are more defined than the very thin light colored margin of a sauger but less defined than the large white tips found on a walleye. The over all body color of a saugeye is also intermediate between the gray to silver color of a walleye and the bronze or brown color of a sauger.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/SpeciesGuideIndex/saugeye/tabid/6750/Default.aspx

Sauger:









Description
The sauger is similar in appearance to the walleye or the hybrid between the two known as the saugeye. They have many dark spots on their dorsal fin often forming rows. The first dorsal fin is usually relatively clear in unspotted areas, and there is not a large dusky area at the rear base of the fin as in walleye. The over all body coloration of a sauger is a bronze or brown color compared to the usual gray or more silver color of a walleye. The sauger has large dark oblong blotches on the sides of their body which are more visible when the fish are sitting still. Sauger do not have large white edges to the lower part of their tail and anal fin like a walleye, at best they have a very thin lighter colored edge that is often more yellow in color. 

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/SpeciesGuideIndex/sauger/tabid/6749/Default.aspx

Thanks Mushi for the DNR links


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## fishfray

Thanks to the guys who believe it's a saugeye. I think the noticeable blotch on the back of the spiny dorsal fin makes it unlogical to consider it a sauger.


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## Mushijobah

If it is a saugeye, the biggest mystery is how they are getting into the maumee.


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## sdkohio

By looking at the post by KaGee, I will definitely be calling the one I caught a saugeye. I caught another today, but it flipped away as I was grabbing it. Ugh


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## rutnut245

I should have looked more closely at the picture. From what I can see it looks to be a sauger. I've been fishing the dam at least once or twice a week and most of the fish we caught were either walleyes or small saugeyes. I caught three last night along with a ton of white bass.


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## rutnut245

Mushijobah said:


> If it is a saugeye, the biggest mystery is how they are getting into the maumee.


I was told it's from cross fertilization from the enormous amount of walleyes in the river during the spring run. If it happens naturally anywhere I would think the Maumee would be the most likely place. Just conjecture though.


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## Mushijobah

That would imply that there is a significant population of pure strain sauger in the maumee, which there isn't. Making a naturally produced saugeye somewhat impossible.




rutnut245 said:


> I was told it's from cross fertilization from the enormous amount of walleyes in the river during the spring run. If it happens naturally anywhere I would think the Maumee would be the most likely place. Just conjecture though.




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## Bucket Mouth

Mushijobah said:


> That would imply that there is a significant population of pure strain sauger in the maumee, which there isn't. Making a naturally produced saugeye somewhat impossible.


That's my thought too. Why would there be such a significant amount of saugeye being caught but no sauger? IMO, these fish we're all discussing are almost all saugers with a potential (although rare) periodic saugeye.


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## rutnut245

I have personaly caught over 20 in about a half dozen trips. I know a couple of customers at the shop that have caught many more than me. There have been hundreds caught at the dam this year,that I am sure of. They aren't that rare at all. Go catch a couple and let us know what they are. I got three yesterday and the guy I was fishing with caught 4.


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## acklac7

Bucket Mouth said:


> That's my thought too. Why would there be such a significant amount of saugeye being caught but no sauger? IMO, these fish we're all discussing are almost all saugers with a potential (although rare) periodic saugeye.


Think about it, you get one female Sauger spawning in chocolate milk water during the Walleye run. Next to her are 5 male Walleyes that inturn blow there junk on the eggs, easy for there to be alot of Saugeye with only a small population of Sauger.


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## M.Magis

Just me thinking out loud, but if it were that simple saugeye would have been common decades or centuries ago. Long before they were propagated in hatcheries. If saugers and walleye were both in such great abundance 100 years ago, natural saugeyes would have been almost as common as full blood fish


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## KaGee

acklac7 said:


> Think about it, you get one female Sauger spawning in chocolate milk water during the Walleye run. Next to her are 5 male Walleyes that inturn blow there junk on the eggs, easy for there to be alot of Saugeye with only a small population of Sauger.


The transient walleye don't venture up stream past Waterville. All these reported Saugeye are being caught up at Grand Rapids... If what you say is taking place, what makes the female swim downstream and then what makes the fry decide to remain in the river? And wouldn't we also have verified catches out in the big lake?


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## Mushijobah

Any Indiana section of maumee stocked with saugeye?

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## rutnut245

KaGee said:


> The transient walleye don't venture up stream past Waterville. All these reported Saugeye are being caught up at Grand Rapids... If what you say is taking place, what makes the female swim downstream and then what makes the fry decide to remain in the river? And wouldn't we also have verified catches out in the big lake?


I fish ,and catch plenty of walleye all the way up to Grand Rapids during the run. I've been doing it for many years.They are not nearly as concentrated but if you know what kind of water to look for you can easily catch your limit. When it's a busy day or a weekend I never fish in the crowd between White St, and Jerome rd. Everyone seems to think that area is the only area where the walleyes spawn. I never fish in a line of guys and I fish almost everyday during the run. I've been doing it for 35+ years. I won't give out exact locations on the net but I can assure you they're way past Waterville.If you get a high water event at the right time they are all the way to the dam.
Back in the seventies it was rather routine to catch sauger in the Maumee-Perrysburg area shortly after ice out or early in the run. Not so anymore,though I don't know why.


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## KaGee

Rut, I don't dispute what you say. DNR has said in years past that the "run" didn't extend much past Waterville. There is a resident population that you might be getting into upstream.

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## fishfray

Just thought I'd add that in garys maumee tackle river report he said he caught 2 saugeyes in grand rapids


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## fisherboy

Assuming that they know. The retired officer for Wood County once told me he did not know the difference between a sauger, a saugeye or a walleye. Either he was being an ******* or he really did not know. Seriously the DNR should be able to clarify what most of these fish are. In my opinion they are saugeyes & I have caught a fair # of them this year. More than ever before & I have fished the area for many years.

Not withstanding my belief about being saugeyes I thought I had a FO sauger Monday night. When cleaning it the next morning I changed my mind after looking at the dorsal fin. No spots, just the black blotches. & it was only 15 3/4" long.  Only a few have been 17" or longer & quite a few less than 15". Perhaps the size S/B lowered after May 1 in the rivers.


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## Redhunter1012

fisherboy said:


> Perhaps the size S/B lowered after May 1 in the rivers.


But then everybody would wipe out the population in there. I think the size limit should be raised to 17" personally


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## DeathFromAbove

Redhunter1012 said:


> But then everybody would wipe out the population in there. I think the size limit should be raised to 17" personally


 I agree. Anything smaller is just a big perch.


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## sdkohio

To my understanding there is no minimum size on sauger or saugeye. The only limit is a 6 fish bag limit. Do you agree?


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## DeathFromAbove

sdkohio said:


> To my understanding there is no minimum size on sauger or saugeye. The only limit is a 6 fish bag limit. Do you agree?


 I couldn't find this years regs, but I have last years. The reason the DNR doesnt list regs for saugeye and sauger in the Maumee is the same reason they dont list regs for walleye in the Ohio River,Eastern Unit, only Saugeye and Sauger down there. The DNR doesnt believe these fish exist in these river systems.If you put a sub 15 inch walleye type fish on a stringer in the Maumee and try to tell a Game Warden its a saugeye, all you'll have at the end of the day is an expensive ticket. They list all 3 when talking about them in other parts of the state.
I looked on their website at their species guide on the saugeye page, and from the info given, it seems highly unlikely saugeye exist in the maumee. They are only stocked in reservoirs, dont exist in Lake Erie, and although they do admit its possible for them to exist naturally in nature, they say its extremely rare. Someone said something about a sauger dumping eggs in a sea of walleye sperm in the river, but thats not how it happens. Saugeye are born from Walleye eggs being fertilized with sauger sperm.As KaGee said, That means that sauger would have to swim downstream from Grand Rapids to the walleye spawning grounds between Waterville and Perysburg, and that seems highly unlikely. Im gonna have to side with KaGee on this one. Most of those fish are probably small walleyes, which have different markings than mature fish, as a lot of species do. Take a look a a little channel cat and a 15 lbder. They dont even look like the same species.


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## sdkohio

I have caught plenty of walleye, small and large, these are not walleye.


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## KaGee

You know guys, this is one of those things that ain't worth getting into an argument over.
If they believe it's SAUGEYE, whatever. There are more important things in life.


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## fisherboy

It really is intersting about these fish that's for sure. All of the spring walleyes are scaleless on their creeks while these do have cheek scales. & even the spikes & small walleyes are scaleless so that makes the argument about them being small walleyes a little questionable. BTW I have caught 1 of these "saugeyes" a little upriver from Jerome Road (Maumee) about a month ago.

Yes I would not want to argue with a game protector that a 14 1/2 " 
"fish" is not a walleye but a saugeye. I read on a link I found in 1 of the posts that the DNR is planning to reintroduce saugers in Lake Erie. That would really make life interesting since none of the saugers I caught back in the 80's ever made it to much more than 14" if that. But they look like a miniature sailfish when being wound up on the surface.

As far as the size being increased to 17" that means that my 2 16" ones I caught yesterday would have had to been released.


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## Bucket Mouth

DeathFromAbove said:


> Most of those fish are probably small walleyes, which have different markings than mature fish, as a lot of species do.


While I am also in the camp of "not saugeyes", I certainly don't think that alot of the fish that've been discussed are walleye either. I've caught resident walleye and the look like lake 'eyes but smaller.

This fish that I posted in the other thread about this topic was around 18", which certainly would qualify it as a mature fish, and therefore have the "adult" marking you discussed. I think this is a sauger.


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## Mushijobah

When photographing these fish for IDing, you guys really need to make sure the dorsal fin is up.


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## fisherboy

Mushijobah said:


> When photographing these fish for IDing, you guys really need to make sure the dorsal fin is up.


True true true


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## fatherandsonfishing

I caught what I believe to be a walleye at providence dam


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## fatherandsonfishing

Is this a walleye?


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## marksha

The next one you catch, take to the ODNR and they can verify what you have been catching. Please tell us the results.


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## fisherboy

A friend asked me to post these 2 pictures. Believe its the same fish. Definitely not a sauger. More than likely a saugeye.


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