# Newcomer inquiries



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

I've decided that I'd like to get into fly fishing, mostly for the challenge and a different way of fishing. Problem is, like most others (probably more so), I'm lost. I've done a little research but for now I've got a few questions. Fair warning, some of these questions will probably come off as rediculous or retarded. Anyway, here we go...

Is it necessary to have a tippet? Does it hurt _not_ to have one? If using a tippet, do you match it with the leader in terms of lb. test?

Is it possible to use two different fly line weights on a single rod? Reason I ask is because while looking around at Wal-Mart today I noticed a Scientific Anglers outfit labled 'Weight 5/6'. I'm assuming that means you could use either five _or_ 6 weight on that rod?

As far as fishing flies...this is where I really become clueless. How _do_ you fish them? Prior to even thinking about fly fishing, I pictured it as casting and basically letting a fly drift, bringing it back in as it got downstream. Obviously that's not the case. Is it basically the same as conventional fishing? Is the fly brought to life by rod twitches or what? As far as particular flies go, off the top of my head I'm familiar with Wooly Buggers, Streamers, Nymphs, Dry Flies, Poppers and Wet Flies. How do you fish each one? Just a general idea would be appreciated. Again, I'm just plain clueless as to what you do with a fly upon casting it out. That may sound retarded, but that's just how clueless I am.

Bringing fish in...now I've read that it can be done by 'stripping' or utilizing the reel (if the fish is large). The question I ask is does it hurt the reel to use it, big fish or small fish? Or I guess another way to put it is why not use the reel even on a small fish?

Say I cast with my right hand, as far as I know, the left hand is used to bring strip line in or reel in. I've noticed a little slack line out with the left hand out holding it whilst casting with the right. The question here is what is the purpose of holding slack line whilst casting? I might be answering my own question but regardless...is it to let more line cast out or to shorten a cast? Hopefully that makes sense...

Casting cranks, vertical jigging, trolling, drifting, tossing inline spinners and buzzbaits, minnows under a bobber, etc...this is the fishing I've known my whole life -- fly fishing is _completely_ foreign to me but it's something I'd really like to get into and learn as much as possible. I'm sure I'll have another question or two later, but this is what I've got for now. All help is appreciated.


----------



## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

ronnie84,
I will attempt to try to answer some of your questions later, it's a little late for me to think & give good answers now. I WILL say this....your humility says to me that you are an "open book" & will learn quickly. IMHO, the FIRST step to learning is admitting ignorance (NOT to be confused with stupidity). I will have some answers, although there are others here with far more knowledge than I who can help you more.
Mike


----------



## ethan-a-thon (Aug 17, 2006)

Ronnie,

I just got into Fly Fishing this summer, and it is addictive, I love it maybe I can help, but there are many many more informed people around than me, and hopefully they will help out too. 

Using a wiegtless fly was developed to deliver a tiny insect imitation delicately so as not to spook trout, and other spooky fish. SO hence the long invisible leader.

The leader = Butt+tippet. If you buy a 7.5' Orvis leader it will have 2 feet of butt and 5.5 feet of tippet. Every time you change flies you loose a little tippet, so after the tippet shortens up you need to tie on some extra tippet, so you buy the extra spool that matches the weight of the leader, 2x 3x 4x etc.

If you can, try to take a casting lesson or class. I took an hour long priovate lesson for 35 bucks from http://www.madriveroutfitters.com in columbus. I would have never figured it out without them, priceless.

You can overload with a heavier weight +1, but I've never done it yet.

As far as fishing the flies the technique varries nased on what kind of fly you are using and they are varried as the world of bait casting spin fishing. The thing to remember is that the principle is the same as bait/spinner fishing, you are imitating something that the fish wants to eat or attack. Dry fly you need a dead drift, when it starts to drag re-cast it. Streamer fishing is a lot like bait casting with a plug or crank bait, just make it look like a minnow, and work it with the striping hand. I haven't done any nymph fishing yet but the pricniples are the same as any subsurface fly.

Brining fish in, I've used the strpping hand and the reel, and the stripping hand is reely fun! I like it better because it feels more like Man vs Beast, no mechanical advantage, but sometimes you have no choice use the reel. 

The slack line in your left hand is used to feed line out as you false cast , its something that I can't really describe in writing, but the best way to start out is to hold the line fast with the left hand, and not feed any line.


----------



## jsalkas (Feb 18, 2005)

Ronnie, I'd highly recommend http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ for some very good fly-fishing 101 articles, and then a hundreds of other articles about different aspects of fly fishing.

The folks on that bulletin board are quite helpful as well. Between OGF and FAOL, you'll find more than enough folks to answer your questions.


----------



## FISHONAJ (Oct 25, 2005)

Heed jsalkas's advice and check out FAOL. Besides seeing ohio tuber posting there, do a search on " 'ole Rupe ". He's quite an interesting guy and i've personally met him  

AJ


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

Tell me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, all leaders have a 'tippet' on them already? They just have to be replaced as you tie more flies? Is the tippet tied onto the leader (obviously if you buy more tippet it is), or is it just a tapered part of the leader or whatever? In other words, _if_ all new leaders have tippet on them, is the tippet portion noticable?

Anyway, thanks for all the help guys.


----------



## jholbrook (Sep 26, 2006)

Most leaders do not have a tippet "built into" them. Many of the leaders available for purchase are braided and end in a loop. Tie a loop (using a hitch) to the end of the tippet section. Slip the loop over the leader and pull the tippet through the end of the loop, tighten, and you're ready to go. 

Tippets are rated as 8X up through 0X. The higher the number, the lighter the line. 4X is about 6 lb. and 7X is about 2 lb. tensile strength. The only time it is important to use light leaders is when delivering very small dry flies, otherwise 4 - 6 lb. mono will work most of the time.

You can also tie your own leaders, but I'd hold off for a while.

A quick and easy way to cheat if you don't want to initially spend the $10 or so for a good leader, and particularly if you aren't casting dry flies, is to use stiff 10 lb. mono and tie a tippet to the end.

Another good place to start, aside from the websites is with a book. I highly recommend anything by A.J. McLane - well written, informative, insightful and descriptive.


----------



## jholbrook (Sep 26, 2006)

Some people suggest using the heavier of the two ratings on a fly rod (say 6 on a rod rated 5/6) to better load the road when casting. This is something my father has always done, so I do as well. More often than not when people have different lines they use with a fly rod it has to do with the type of fly line. You can get lines that float and lines that sink.

The ones that sink are a pain to pull out of the water, a weight forward floating line is a good place to start.

There is no real mystery to the mechanics of fly fishing, you can learn how to cast in about 20 minutes with proper instruction. If you can find a place to catch bluegill, that would be an ideal place to practice setting the hook and fighting fish - you can also get the hang of dealing with bigger fish by using the reel if you hook a bass. 

Again, I hope this helps. You had a lot of questions in the first post and answering each would take some time. If you have others you want answered, you can PM me and I can give it a try.


----------



## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

Ronnie,
If the SA outfit you are looking at over at WalMart is the $60.00 (or is it $70.00) outfit, that is a great buy! As for leaders, I would buy knotless tapered leaders. For a 5/6 weight, either 4x or 5x should be fine. I think you will find the 4x will be listed as a 6lb test tip & 5x will be 4lb. I think I'm pretty close on those "guesstimates". After clipping line awhile either changing flies and/or cutting off damaged line, just attach 2-3 ft of tippet material (or straight mono or fluoro) the same lb test as your leader tip. I use a double surgeon's knot & haven't had that knot fail yet.
As far as fishing flies, use your imagination. You can "dead drift" dries, but then again, after giving up on a drift, you MAY get hit stripping it in or preparing to lift it for the next cast. Don't just think of stripping in streamers & the like either. Sometimes just a twitch of the rod tip will work well...in fact, it's my "go-to" retrieve for lightly weighted bunny strips. DO NOT hesitate to employ the things that work for you spinning & baitcasting. Give the fish a variety of looks until you find what works on that day.
Heed the previous advice & get a casting lesson, then practice in the grass. Start out on the right foot..I was self taught, & I will be working a good while to overcome the bad habits I have. At least now I know what to work on, but it's easier to seek instruction from an expert. Where do you live? Perhaps one or more of us can suggest a place to go for a lesson.
Mostly....ENJOY the madness of flyfishing..it IS addictive!
Mike


----------



## fishinjim (Aug 9, 2006)

jholbrook said:


> Most leaders do not have a tippet "built into" them. Many of the leaders available for purchase are braided and end in a loop.
> 
> The leaders I buy are tapered and the loop is usually on the heavy end. I always assumed that was to make it easier to join it to the fly line. So, If I buy a 9' tapered leader, I still need the 2' of tippet?


----------



## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

fishinjim,
As you shorten the length of that 9' leader by cutting, or breaking off line, you use the additional 2' of leader to replace what is gone. That way, you also save a lot of money over the course of a season by not going through a bunch of full leaders. Some folks might add the 2-3' of tippet to a new 9' leader, but I think that compromises the taper & the leaders ability to turn flies over. Another leader type is a furled leader, which are my favorite, but I would hate to try to describe the differences here. If I go fishing with someone or meet them on stream/lake, I would be happy to show them a furled & its pros & cons.
Mike


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

Sorry if I asked this already (long day at work), but something I was wondering was why put a tippet on a mono leader? What is the purpose (of the tippet I suppose)?

If I'm understanding correctly (and I'm probably not, I don't know), is it just because tippets are cheaper and as you break off more tippet you can get it cheaper than replacing actual leader? If that were the case why wouldn't you just have a full spool of leader and reattach what you need as you lose it?

This is what confuses me...


----------



## fishinjim (Aug 9, 2006)

tippet is lighter and thinner in diameter. cost is irrelevant. the point to fly fishing is to make the insect/fly look and act like the real thing and using a light, thin, flexible stretch of line (tippet) makes that much more of a possibility.

my point with the leader is that i only add tippet to a new tapered leader after I have cut enough off and that is what I thought was correct. Just getting a confirmed opinion.

Not an expert here, far from it and I could definitely use some casting lessons and bass tips and techniques. I've gone more to spin casting and my fishing success has improved but I have improvised by floating wooly buggers and nymphs, and streamers with a bobber. If i could spend more time in ponds with my float tube, I would probably fly fish more often as bluegill and crappie are really fun and in the springtime, so easy with poppers.

I have two little children and need to keep their interest up, catching fish is the best technique I know of. that's my excuse, and I am sticking to it!


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

I _think_ I am starting to understand this a little bit more...

In an attempt to try and make some sense, I'll say this -- say you just purchased a brand new leader...the end of the leader is _considered_ the tippet. After you tie enough knots to the point where you've lost a specified amount of leader, that's where you actually go out and purchase 'tippet'. This would basically mean that all fly fishing leaders are tapered, the shortest (end) of the leader is, again, _considered_ tippet. So you really don't need to worry about tippet until you've lost enough of the end of your leader...

If not all fly fishing leaders are tapered, that would mean you would have to purchase tippet seperately with the leader and attach it?

Is this correct? Does it make any sense?


----------



## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

fishinjim...That IS correct. Replace the tippet after you have cut off enough.
Ronnie...If I am understnding correctly, I will say this. A tapered leader aids greatly in "turning over" a fly. The thicker end stays stiff while the progressively thinner end just sort of "unwinds" to lay the fly out as delicately as possible. I know what I'm trying to say, but I don't think I'm explaining it well. If we can get together on the water I can illustrate my points FAR better than I explain them!...sorry if I've confused you.
Mike


----------



## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Rather than going to Walmart and then getting advice from an assortment of individuals, find a tacklre shop that can provide you with matched equipment and good solid advice on a personal basis. You will learn a lot faster and spend less in the long run while setting up a trusted relationship. A dedicated tackle shop will allow you to "try befor you buy" and set you up with the highest quality materials that your budget can support.


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

First of all, thanks for all the advice and help.

Today I went ahead and purchased an outfit from Dicks. I looked there, headed to Gander Mountain, then back to Dicks. I've bought quite a bit of lures from GM, but they seem to be overpriced. I ended up purchasing a Redington Crosswater outfit -- 8'6" 4/5 2 pc. It was on sale for $70, originally $160. Pretty good deal there! I spoke with a guy at GM who, coincidently, just got into fly fishing over the summer. He gave me some good advice but in the end I just didn't want to spend _tons_ of money right from the getgo, that's for down the road.

This outfit seemed to be the most ideal for me. The next step will be getting on the water and learning a completey different way of fishing!

Again, I appreciate all the help. In anyones spare time, I'd like to know how to fish the different flies out there (ie. nymphs, streamers, drys, wets, etc.) -- a general idea I guess.

Thanks again.


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

edit: problem solved.


----------



## jholbrook (Sep 26, 2006)

ronnie84,

I typed a response to your last question then saw you solved the problem. Was the line on backwards?

John


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

No, it was just me not thinking about how the line actually flowed off the reel. It was alright the way it was.

I went out to the river today for the first time with the fly rod and basically casted for about 4 hours. It didn't take long to get the basic forward and back cast down. I did a lot of false casting as well.

Every now and then I would have the fly hit the rod and get tangled and of course a tailing loop here and there. Considering it was my first time, it was (still is) difficult to pinpoint why I would have those problems here and there. I guess the key is to just relax a little bit and not overpower it? I didn't expect every cast to be perfect on my first day though. I suspect that will come with time.

Anyway, I had a wooly bugger streamer on all day -- I basically just casted, let the fly drift down the current a little bit, and lifted the rod up to recast...pretty much because I didn't know how to fish that fly (or any fly for that matter) -- cast, drift a little bit, cast again...that was my first day fly fishing.


----------



## jholbrook (Sep 26, 2006)

ronnie84,

Bigger, bulkier flies like wooly buggers are harder to cast than smaller less wind resistant ones. 

One of the ways to help avoid the problem of ending up with a big knotted mess at the end of your rod is to think of casting in two different planes. Most advice is to move you arm from 10 - 2 o' clock parallel with your body. If you're right handed cast as you learned, but on the back cast try to move back and a few inches to the right (away from your body); on the front cast, move forwards and a few inches to the left, closer to your body - you're moving on a diagonal, keeping the rod tip out of the path of the incoming line. 

When fishing with a streamer, it sounds like you did it the same way most people would. Cast upstream, let the fly sink. The best way I've heard this type of (dead drift) fishing descrbied is that you're searching for the "perfect inch" - you want as little extra line/slack on the water as possible so that if you moved the rod tip an inch you'd be moving the fly. This takes a fair amount of rod positioning - the rod goes up and up as the fly approaches you from upstream and then back down as the fly passes by. It also takes practice.

Also, you can strip the fly in after it sinks or let the fly continue to drift, until the current catches it and it swings a few feet across current.

John


----------



## jholbrook (Sep 26, 2006)

fishinjim,

When I wrote about the loops on leaders, I meant braided leaders - they typically have a large loop to attach to the fly line and a smaller one to attach to the tippet. 

I think you guys talking about knotless tapered mono leaders. I quit using them because I had the same experience of them not turning flies over very well and them getting dinged up and breaking when I'd get snagged. Though the braided leaders cost more, they last longer - I've used the one on my 3 wt. for 2 years now.


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

leaders are tapered from the butt end that ties to your line to the tippet end that ties to your fly so that the energy of your unfurling line is transferred all the way to your fly as does the tapered end of a bullwhip---if a bullwhip wasnt tapered it would be difficult to get it to crack---

the prepackaged tapered "knotless" leader are convinient and are ready to use as the package indicates---its been mentioned that as you cut back on the leader you can add tippet material to restore its length

i tie my own leaders from a leader kit which has all the same stiffness mono so the end resultant leader has predictable performance and can easily be adjusted to fishing conditions ---the tied leaders have generally have a higher breaking strength per given diameter than the pretapered one piece leaders

tie on a pretapered leader that will hold the fish that you are targeting and be more concernered about all the other aspects and most of all have fun

if a fish is small --you can strip the fish in but if its big ---let him run your line out or start trying to get the slack line on the reel and fight him from the reel

the line #'s on the rod are the manufacturers suggestion where you should start with for your line---if you are inefficient in your casting ---you most likely would need the heavier line to get a decent load on the rod---as you get more proficient the line weight will get lighter since with your greater efficiency you will get more load on the rod

confused?---it gets easier


----------



## ngski (Aug 16, 2005)

ronnie84: As earlier suggested take a lesson at Mad River, I was in the same boat as you. Spin fished most of my life but got hooked on fly fishing and not touched my spin outfits. I took serveral fly classes and fortunately the classes I took, got a chance to practice at a few trout clubs in the Cleveland area. So I got lessons casting and fly selection. Also suggest you look into joining a fly fishing clubs in your area, hook up with a member that can help you with your fly fishing skills.

Concentrate on a paticular species of fish, I like bluegill and bass. Use flies like bugs and poppers. If you like to fish on rivers then go after smallmouths. Concentrate on buying flies that closely match insects (terrestial patterns), foam spiders, frogs - cork poppers and minnows - streamer patterns. 

Don't worry about changing your fly line to different weights. I've used my 6wt and it works on bass, bluegills and trout. Check your local public library and pick up a few books on casting and techniques. Pick up the free fly fishing publication at Gander that comes out bi - monthly Fly Fish America.

If you live up North then now is the time to fish for steelhead, but I would recommend a 9wt rod and reel to handle them and there is a ton of info about steelhead fishing.

I use the same taper leader, then tie a Surgeon's Loop at the end, and do the same with one end of the tippet, join them together via loop to loop. Instead of buying the small spool of tippet I perfer to buy regular 250 yd spools of lines like the Stren Fluorocarbon brand. Usually your changing flies a few time in an hour and clipping off an inch at a time.


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Like I said, I have a 5wt rod with a 5x tapered leader. I know the actual fly line must match the rod, but what about leader sizes? Can I put, say, a 2x tapered leader on a 5 wt? I mainly wonder because of different fly sizes. I saw a chart on the net that recommended fly sizes 14-20 on a 5x leader. If I want to use heavier flies, can I simply put heavier leader on? Or will that sacrifice or hurt the fact that I'm using a 5wt rod/fly line?


----------



## ethan-a-thon (Aug 17, 2006)

Ronnie,

I've been told that the rule of thumb for matching leader and tippet size to fly size is you take the size of the fly you divide that number by 3 or 4, and that is your leader size. So for a size 8 wooly bugger you would use either a 2x or 3x leader. For size 18 dry fly you would use a 6x oir 7x leader. 

Basically as the leader number goes up it gets smaller and lighter, same with fly size. The lighter the fly the lighter the leader.


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

But a thicker leader won't hurt the fact that it's on 5wt fly line/rod?


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

leader size doesnt affect anything with the rod---it should be mostly in tune with the size fly that you are using , water clarity and the fish you are trying to fool

an 0x leader will not go through the eye of a #24 blue winged olive dry fly and also the end of the leader will be too stiff to let the floating fly a natural float 

a 7x leader is likely to send a #2 weighted zonker sailing to the hell and gone on the first badly timed cast

we use 80# shock tippets on tarpon leaders---you size the leader by the fish and fly and as with the tarpon leader its heavy so the fish doesnt wear through the leader near the fish


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

Alright, so let me get this straight...

I want to target bigger fish with my 5wt WF line, but instead of using 5x (4lb test), it wouldn't hurt to throw some 2x or 3x? That doesn't hurt the WF line? Sorry if I'm still not understanding -- I know certain size flies are suited for certain tippet sizes, I'm just wondering if you can basically use any size leader/tippet with any particular rod/fly line. If that's the case, why bother with a 8 or 9wt rod when you could just put heavier leader on, say, a 4 or 5 wt rod?


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

the sizes of flyrods are made to make fishing tailor made to fish of various sizes and power---small trout/panfish 3-4 wt---bigger stream trout 5-6 wt---steelhead/bonefish 7-8 wt---bass/permit/salmon 8-10 wt ---tarpon/sails 11-12----tuna/marlin 13-14wt

you are sort of on the short end of the power curve with a 5 wt rod---it will certainly make a big fish interesting---with experience you can land big fish on small rods

your leaders should test out around 6-8# for steelhead or you might get a lot of breakoffs---4# when they are fussy

one rod will not do it all---at the other extreme ---i passed on a shot to a 300# hammerhead with a 10wt because i thought id break my stuff


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

I'm also having sort of a rough time with the knot tying, in particular the nail knot and the surgeon knot. I've finally got them both after a couple hours of attempting them whilst looking at an online picture and description.

On my surgeon knot, I get a very slight kink right where the knot forms. In other words, it doesn't flow completely straight from the leader, knot and tippet. Not sure if this is of any concern, but is this normal?

That aside, I hit the river again today for a couple hours and actually had a fish on, but had it break off right at the leader to tippet transition. I'm pretty sure it was due to my poor knot I'd tied prior to actually taking the time to learn to tie it properly. Oh well. It's just fun being out and casting the fly rod. Getting a fish on is an added bonus at this point.


----------



## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

Ronnie,
Make sure you are using the DOUBLE surgeons knot. I haven't yet had one fail. As far as the nail knot, there are tools sold such as the EZ Knot Tool (I BELIEVE that's the name). As an easy, yet VERY effective alternative to the nail knot, go to www.flyanglersonline.com & look for the Castwell Knot in the knots section. Doesn't seem like it, but it is extremely strong...and it's simple to tie.
Mike


----------



## ngski (Aug 16, 2005)

ronnie84: You are getting ahead of your self, 5/6 wt rod will land an average largemouth down. I use three types of leaders, trout and bass and pan fish leaders. I've used my 5/6 wt rod and landed 7lb trout with 4lb tippet, took me 15 minutes to land the fish but that's the fun of fly fishing. I use only 4lb and 6lb max tippet material for my 5/6 wt rod. Depending on the species you hook into anything more then 7lb carp it can strip you down to your backing and possible all your line if your not careful. 

If you are pursuing larger fish anything larger then 8lb or bigger then you need a heavier rod. I've hooked into a 10lb carp with a larger rod 9wt and it stripped me down to the beginning of my backing. Take my earlier suggestion and hook up with a local fly fishing organization, or take a lesson you'll enjoy the sport more. The folks at Mad River Outfitters is an excellent place to start out. If you decide to go after bigger fish, dump your old spin tackle and buy a better outfit. You'll never use your old takle again.

Tip: Check your leader and tippets after a messed up tangle cast, check for knots that I call catch and release knots that mess up. Untangle them or cut them off.

If your looking for a good site for fly knot then visit http://www.killroys.com/knots/knots.htm


----------



## fishinjim (Aug 9, 2006)

sure, you could use a 5wt rod for an 8lb'er but, as in spin casting, you size the weight and sensitivityof the rod to the size of the fish you intend to catch. the bigger the fish, the bigger the bait, and the heavier the rod.

you wouldn't use a 7/8wt rod for a 8inch blue gill just as you wouldn't use a 3/4wt rod for an 8lb smallie.

fly fishing is no different in rod sizing than baitcasting or spin casting, it's just the type of bait you are bringing to the fish.


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

Would 3x leader/tippet be overkill on a 5wt rod? I've got some flies that are size 10's, and a chart I came across online suggested 3x for hook sizes 8-14.


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

itll be fine--slap it on and go flail the water---best of all have fun---read as much as you can 

if you break your tippet a lot ---go heavier----if you dont catch fish and think your leader is spooking the fish---go lighter and longer

if your flies are too big or wind resistant to cast ---you need a bigger rod

if your rod breaks on a big fish ---you have a good story to tell and you go to the store and get a bigger rod


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

Just curious but is there any rule of thumb in fly fishing as far as how heavy of a leader to go up to on a certain weight rod?


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

your tippet utimately is your fuse---it should break before your backing if that makes sense---if a fish is big enough to spool you---you want your tippet to test less than your backing or the ultimate strength of your rod---otherwise you would lose your line or break your rod

after you get some experience---your leaders will be dictated by your fly , your fish and your casting efficiency


----------



## ohiotuber (Apr 15, 2004)

Ronnie,
ledslinger is passing out good, solid, simple advice. Don't get too technical, & use common sense. You will learn a lot by trial & error...we all have.
Mike


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

Thanks for all of the advice. I think I'm going to pick up some 4x and 3x leader tomorrow with the corresponding extra tippets. I would think that 3x would be the heaviest leader I should need with my 5 wt rod and I'm purchasing it to suit some of the heavier flies I have. If I'm understanding correctly, anything heavier than that would be really reducing the sensitivity of my rod. This is really the only thing at this point that I'm somewhat confused on. In conventional fishing, your rods will (most of the time) give you a recommended line size to use (ie. 10-20lb line) -- whereas with my 4/5wt fly rod, I basically know that I should only use 4/5 wt fly line...but as far as leader size range, not sure.

Has anyone ever had success using the _Joes Flies_ lures fly fishing? They have these little inline spinners I used to use a whole lot spin fishing (with pretty good success) with my ultra light rod. Little did I know that they can be used fly fishing as well...

http://www.joesflies.com/shop/home.php?cat=1



> Size #10 is approximatley 30% smaller in physical size and particularly suited for fishing SMALLER STREAMS where the water is clear or shallow and a more delicate, less intrusive presentation is desired. Size 10 is also very effective for Native Trout. Also extremely effective when fishing as a streamer with a fly casting rod.


----------



## LaZeR (Oct 7, 2006)

I think the leader - tippet matching is more of a what type of fish being targeted/fly/fishing conditions factor than the rod rating. If you look at this perspective, another words fishing a 4wt rod/line and putting on a 0x or 1x leader and/or tippet would not be real useful because while the leader/tippet would hold up to a bigger fish, your line would be the weak point and snap first. On the other hand if you have heavier lets say a 9wt rod/line, then using a much lighter leader and tippet in some cases could be helpful to present lighter flies targeting smaller species than steelhead and such as in say 6" to 12" trout, small bass, ect...

So I would say the line would be what you want to stay more true with to your setup meaning rod/real rating whereas think of the leader and tippet to be rated equal or ideally smaller in break strength than your line strength. This still gives you a range to work with for leader/tippet selection unless you happened to already be at a low strength line.

Note also that you could downsize on the tippet strength vs.s the leader - vary the length, ect... per fishing condition and type of fish you are targeting which would make fine sense also. 

In short, think of it this way in strength from Strongest to weakest which should also make sense as to thinking presentation:

Backing - Line - Leader - Tippet

As you know I am rather new to this also so if any of my thinking is incorrect, somebody clear me up but pretty sure this is the way to view it.


----------



## fishinjim (Aug 9, 2006)

Joes flies seem expensive, expecially since I can get them for about a buck a piece elsewhere. 

I usually buy my flies from these guys:
http://www.flyfishing-flies.com/

although they are in England, the flies arrive in a few days. great selection, too.


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

one thing that hasnt been mentioned---how big is your reel and do you have backing behind your flyline?---90 feet might not be enough line if you are fishing for steelhead with a 5 wt---i fished for years on the au sable for trout with 4 to 6 wt rods and never needed backing for up to 20" fish---but a 32" steelhead is a different story---keep in mind that the backing should be a higher test than the tippet

a heavy leader has no affect on the rods sensitivity---it will affect how the fly looks to the fish---and it should break before anything else does

those flys will catch fish but are not going to be fun to cast as a newbie --the blade is going to wind resistant in the air and slow your line speed

stop into a fly shop and ask what other people are getting fish on and and use the accepted flies and start catching fish---after you have that accomplished---then play around and try different things


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

First fish on the fly with a white woolly spin...


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

are ya hooked yet?


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

I was hooked the minute I made that first 'cast'.  

I was wondering, when bringing fish in, do you generally want to let the fish run until it tires out, stripping line in as you feel little resistance -- or -- the minute you feel that 'nudge', set the hook and proceed to keep stripping line in, no matter the resistance? How is that supposed to work because I'm not so sure I did it the 'right' way and I also lost another fish later that day because I possibly wasn't doing it right.


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

cool---if you are going to release the fish than its in the fish's best interest that you leave it with some strength so it can survive after the release---it may take some resussitating by moving water past its gills---many of the fish can be just stripped in but when a fish gets downstream of you its easy to break it off or lose it with the added current resistance---catch more fish and have fun---the right way is to land the fish ---wrong way is to lose it or kill it if you are trying to release it


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

The fish I lost, it felt much bigger than the previous rainbow I'd caught. I set the hook and started stripping in line immediately -- it struck on the downstream portion of my cast. My line broke right at the fly seconds after I started stripping line in. It was almost like I _should've_ let the fish run a little bit -- letting the drag work I guess?, but again this was my first experience with getting _any_ fish on the fly so I'm still a little clueless as to what to do once you've hooked a fish. I know that probably sounds rediculous but...


----------



## ronnie84 (Aug 1, 2006)

Let me ask you this, ledslinger...

If you hook a fish, and it 'feels' small, keep the rod pointed upward and strip line in?

If you hook a fish, and it 'feels' fairly big, keeping the rod upward again, is that when you release tension on your finger that's holding the line and let it run with the drag until is stops pulling so hard, then proceeding to strip line in?

People talk about your backing starting to show and I can only assume that when you're fishing for big steelheads you're letting the fish run with your drag and thus your backing starts to show.

Does that sound correct (just trying to get a better understanding here)?


----------



## ledslinger (Aug 24, 2006)

dont try to stop the fish's initial run---see whats going on---how big he is and where hes going---chances are that he will take up all the loose line you have out and you can fight him off the reel---if he runs downstream and hes big ---you go downstream below him and try to keep from having the water drag added to the fish's pull---if you cant get down below him and hes big your 5 wt isnt going to help you a lot


----------

