# Basic questions thread for Steelhead



## Lucky472 (Sep 30, 2008)

Since I'm so new to this, I wanted to start a thread where beginners can ask questions and hopefully some of the vets can help us out. I know that a lot of these answers will probably be in other threads, but sometimes it's just hard to find them. Thanks for everyones help.

When they talk about the lower and upper ends of the rivers, which one is which? For example. On the Rocky River, is the upper end towards the cedar point park fishing area, and the lower end towards the Lake, or is it the other way? I wanted to hit the RR Cedar Point area just because it's close, but I'm assuming that the fish are still up towards the lake


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## mike003 (Sep 8, 2007)

I was at Cedar Point Friday for about 2 hrs. I saw one caught, and the guy said he got a few the day before.


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## bigcats28 (Jul 23, 2006)

upper stretch (or upstream) is away from the lake. the lower stretch (or downstream) is towards the lake.


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## spoonchucker (Sep 30, 2008)

yes the fish should be closer to the lake if they are in the lower end. check the flow charts the Rock may have gotten more rain than the rivers to the east. when the rivers stay low the fish dont run up them as much, and the Rocky is a zoo so anything in the upper end has seen alot of stuff thrown at them. just wait for a good rain and the rivers will be full of fresh fish


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## Lucky472 (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks guys. I'm going to head to Cedar Point now just to cast a few. Not expecting anything, except to take a walk and find some spots


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## lebowski (Nov 23, 2009)

Lucky -- great idea for a thread, been lurking here the past few days trying to piece together a novice guide.

Could anyone put together a very basic list of "must haves" for steelhead fishing? I have never fished for chrome, and actually never river or stream fished.

Couple specific items:

- basic set-up (rod and reel suggestions, lure / bait combos, line wts and types)
- basic apparell thats needed (suggestions on waders, wading jackets, boots, etc)

Thanks!


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## Jkish (Oct 19, 2009)

The biggest must have is TIME!!


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## Jkish (Oct 19, 2009)

The biggest must have is TIME!!


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## Lucky472 (Sep 30, 2008)

lebowski said:


> Lucky -- great idea for a thread, been lurking here the past few days trying to piece together a novice guide.
> 
> Could anyone put together a very basic list of "must haves" for steelhead fishing? I have never fished for chrome, and actually never river or stream fished.
> 
> ...


My advice may not be the best since I'm also new and haven't caught one, but I've talked to several people, and read a bunch of stuff, and this is my two cents as to the basics of what you'll need...

Gear
-preferably a longer type pole 8.5'-10', although I currently have a 6.5'
-6lb test, or higher lb test with a 4lb-6lb leader
-several different types of floats. I have drennan floats and some foam floats
-assortment of split shots
-micro swivels if using a leader
-hooks, I use size 10 with a fresh spawn sack on the end.
-size 1/32 and 1/64 jigs, and you can tip them with maggots
-fresh spawn sacks.

Clothing (this is what I have so far)
-cabelas breathable stocking foot waders and a felt bottom boot with studs
-sock liner and smart wool socks. I got mine from dicks after someone gave me a tip, and I cured my cold feet problem.
-I wear a pair of thermols under my sweat pants, and will layer up as it gets colder
-Right now I don't have a vest, but I do have a fanny pack for all my gear (my waders also have 2 easy access waterproof pockets), and when it's cold I just wore my columbia titanium jacket

I'm also looking to get into fly fishing since I already have gear, and numerous people suggested that I get John Nagy's Steelhead Guide. I must admit that if you really want to get into Steelhead, and don't know much like me, this book is amazing. I just got it, and I'm almost done reading it. It's geared towards flyfishing, but it has amazing information that you can find all over the place and its summed up in one book. I would say its a much have.

Hopefully this helps. I'm sure that some people will have other suggestions, but it sounds like you're in the same shape as me. Now we just need some rain. Good luck, and hope this helps!!!


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## salmon king (Aug 20, 2008)

Also its funny Im probably gonna get critsized for this but as far a swivels go I've caught alot of fish on size 10 gold swivels when I didn't have size 14 black swivels( Gander Mntn was sold out!)as far as your main line 8lb Trilene XL smooth casting should do.I like a slip bobber for my float and you can get them at Dicks Gander Mntn or Wallmart at times.The brand is thill and there the ones with the black bottom half to them.as far as leaders go everybody has their own opinion but for me flourocarbon is the best type of line.But be carefull because theres flourocarbon and flourocarbon coated lines.I'd go with the 100% flourocarbon and Pline makes a very good one!Its more expensive its
about 18 bucks but it will last a while and with the Pline flourocarbon the knots are very strong and you wont lose as many fish...Just my 2 cents I hope you guys do good on the river just have patience and you will learn and be just fine....


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## lebowski (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks SalmonKing and Lucky.

Another question -- pardon my ignorance, but how do you rig the hook with spawn sacks? I assume you use the whole sack...just run the hook through a few eggs?


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## Lucky472 (Sep 30, 2008)

lebowski said:


> Thanks SalmonKing and Lucky.
> 
> Another question -- pardon my ignorance, but how do you rig the hook with spawn sacks? I assume you use the whole sack...just run the hook through a few eggs?


I thought the same thing, but Craig from Erie Outfitters (great store and help) told me not to go through any eggs, Just slide the hook into the sack and twist it to the side


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## lebowski (Nov 23, 2009)

thanks Lucky!


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

Every year around this time and even more so when it gets closer to steelheading, I read alot of posts in regards to steelheading and those whom are beginners. Lots of questions from gear, to presentations, to water clarity, to where, etc...

I figured I would throw out my experiences, and try to explain all this steelhead in a manner of which someone as a beginner could understand. Heck I am no pro, but I certainly remember being a beginner and not catching a thing and thinking these steelhead are tough to catch. Quite the contrary actually. With a little knowledge you can get into some steelhead and have a fun day on the water.

From my experience with steelheading, I hope I am able to shed some light on this with my fellow beginners. Everyone has been there before.

So here it goes.....

GEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leave the normal bass and panfish rods in the garage. You need a Noodle rod. Well you don't really need one, but if you want a better chance at actually catching a steelhead you do in fact get a better shot at them with a noodle rod. 

Whats a noodle rod? It's a long rod, something about 9-12ft long, that serves multiple purposes. 

1. When you get a hit, the fish takes off fairly fast and the long rod is a shock absorber per say and takes alot of stress off your line during that initial run. 

2. Long rods allow you to keep alot of line off the water as you want as little line on the water as possible. The moving water in the rivers makes a loop in your line on the water, hence making your bobber move faster than it should be going.

So get a noodle rod. You don't have to have a top dollar one either. I spent $30 on a 10' Rapala Noodle rod. Works great. 

REEL!!!!!!!

I recommend a good reel with a nice smooth drag. I prefer the drag on the spool rather than the ones on the butt of the reel. Just my personal preference.

You may ask why should I have a decent reel. Simple!!! Think of this...Tie your line to the back of a sport bike, then have the sport bike take off like a rocket. If you don't have a smooth drag, your going to snap your line. 

You are going to have to play steelhead a bit and they may make several runs on you, jumping and thrashing about...This is why we all fish for them. They are exciting to catch.

Spend your money on the reel!!!!

LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is up for debate, and there are many differant opinions. Here is my recommendation and why.

I use 8lb main line and then carry multiple florocarbon spools for the leader with me. Some people use 6lb main line...Guess it is personal preference, as well as water clarity...I will get to water in a bit.

Why florocarbon??? Very simple, florocarbon is near invisible in the water, hence the steelhead isn't spooked. Use lighter floro in clear water, use heavy floro in muddy water.

I have tried without floro completely, but my catch rate went way up with it. As a beginner my hurdle was how to tie flororcarbon onto my main line. Once you get it down its no big deal. Just practice.

If you catch 20 steelhead in a day your line in my opinion is shot. So I change mine often.

VEST!!!!!!!!!

If your going to fish the rivers you need it. If your going to fish off the break walls it isn't needed but it sure is nice to not have to cary something when you can wear your tackle box.

NET!!!!!!!!!!

Alot of places you won't need a net, but alot of places you will. If you fish where others are, most likely they will have one. 

I have to admit a funny story about my beginner net.....Ok so when I first started out, I took my net....well it looked like a net that trout fisherman used for those precious fish in the streams out West. HAHAHA!!!! those nets are quite a bit small for the bigger strain of fish we have here in the Northeast....I was laughed at when I brought it with me. After seeing someone get a steelhead, I threw the net in the back of the truck and never brought that one with me again...haha...Lessons learned I guess.

WADERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

U need them if your fishing in the rivers, if your on the breakwalls you can leave them at home. Boot fit or sock fit....thats personal preference. Here is a little more info about the boots on the waders. Felt pads on the bottom of the waders are great for when your in the water and walking on rocks...When you get out of the water with felt pads, the mud gets in the felt and you walking on ice....Some boots have studs and felt, I would recommend those, but waders aren't a neccesity to get into steelhead.

BAITS!!!!!!!

I could go on forever here, but I am going to keep it simple. Early season is a jig and maggot combo. Clear water use blacks, in murky water use bright color jigs. Mini-Foos are top choice by alot of anglers. I tie my own so I can customize what I want to present.

There is also the spawn sack but in the early season I suggest the easy jig and maggot combo.

WHERE TO FISH!!!!!!!!!

This is a hot topic!!!! As a beginner I learned more of what to do and not to do by fishing the places that are on the map as public access on the ODNR site. 

Early season your going to begin hearing about reports of fish being caught at the mouth of the rivers. This is one of the best times to learn. You can go up there in jeans and a sweatshirt and toss in a line. Later in the season the fish move into the rivers and wait for spring to spawn.

Those whom do their homework and go walking the rivers and finding the holes now, will reap benefits later. 

It is a respect thing I guess....I work hard to find new spots that are not always gone to much, if I get 20 steelhead there I would be sad if I told someone and they told the entire world....hence you won't hear much about honeyholes, but if you get in with some steelheader and they take you under their wing, you will begin to see what I am talking about.

If someone takes me to a hole, it isn't fair for me to tell someone else, as I wouldn't want that done to me....

Ok enought of that rant....

Get the maps on the ODNR site for steelhead access and get out there...

WATER FLOW!!!!!!!!

If it is raging water you can stay at home. Us steelheaders watch the water gauge's and determine which river is best to fish that day...this takes time to learn. 

If you ask online what river would be good to fish that day, you will get your info from others of us that watch that type of thing....

PRESENTATION!!!!!!!!!

Ladies and Gents, this is where you either get or don't get fish!!!!!!!!!!!

In my opinion, being in the right spot and not presenting the bait properly is what the issue is for lots of beginners.

If your in the river, the bait has to be just above the bottom of the river. If your bobber isn't set properly, then it doesn't matter how many fish are in the hole, you aren't going to get them...Put the bait where the fish's lips are and they will eventually hit it. 

If your at the mouth of the river, I like to set my bobber so the bait is about 5' down then adjust from there. Others like to cast spoons, but I prefer the bobber method.

If your getting stuck on the bottom, then you need to fish shallower, if you never get stuck on the bottom then you need to fish a touch bit deeper.

If your bobber is set correct and near the bottom and you get no bites, change color and try again. If that doesn't work you can change locations.

Ok enough of my babbling for the moment.......I will post more thoughts a bit later.

-----------------------------------------------------

10/16/2007 Update!!!

It has been some time that I have added any content to this post. So as I sit here thinking about it at work, and it is a slow day. I thought I would attempt to share some more info with those of you whom care to listen.

I have gotten some really good questions over the past several months leading up to the fall steelheading season. I am going to attempt to answer them.

I am going to focus on how to fish for the chromers this time, rather than what you need to have in regards to equipment.

Early season wall fishing is differant than in the river float fishing. I will explain below.

Fishing the mouths of the rivers either via the break walls or wading into the Erie Shores is differant due to a few things. First and foremost, the fish at the mouth of the rivers are staging. They are basically hanging out waiting for a good rain to trigger them to begin their journey up the rivers current. Hence the majority of fish I have caught at the mouths of the rivers are from 5ft down to almost the surface of the water. This is much differant than when the fish are in the rivers. When the fish are in the rivers, they relate to the bottom of the river. So you need to get your baits down in front of their face. 

The easiest way I can put it is, the Mouth of the rivers you fish from about 5-6' down, and then adjust up from there. In the rivers, you need to always be checking your floats to ensure yout presentation is down towards the bottom.

Breakwall fishing is the best opportunity for those beginning to get into catching steelhead. Simple fact is that you can cast spoons, inline spinners, or jig/maggot combinations and have very good success in getting on fish.

As with anything else, there is that "YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN HERE YESTERDAY" I have seen it where the fish are hitting quite well, and then the next day they seem to have dissappeared. As of lately fish have been biting better during the later evening, than in the early morning. You just have to watch the reports and make your best guess.

Ok so when casting spoons, I cast out, count to about 5, then begin reeling in at a normal steady pace. It is easy to loose your attention and begin day dreaming and looking at the scenery. Thats usually when you get a hit!!!

Did you check your drag? You should have, and it should be tight enough that when setting the hook that you hear a little pop of drag, but not too loose that you wouldn't get a good hookset.

Inline spinners are the same. I would recommend getting some decone 3/4 or 1/2 ounce sized spoons and spinners. They allow you to cast out a ways, and they get down in the water colomn nice.

There isn't a whole lot I can say about what you do when you get a hookup!!!

All I can say is check your drag even after the hookup. If you need to loosen it, do it fast. Steelies run fast and can snap you off in a New York Minute. 

A few last comments about Breakwall fishing. The mud line, the waves, the others around you.

Depending on the day, you can be at the breakwalls with no waves, or waves 7ft or bigger. I suggest fishing outside of the mudline. If the water is all muddied up, you need to find clearer water. Your success rate will be higher if the fish can actully see your spoon/spinners in the water. If by chance your neighbor gets a hookup. You need to reel your stuff in quickly. Or let me say....you need to reel your stuff in IMMEDIATLEY....the steelies may run right, left, in, or straight out. But I can tell you whatever way they run, it's gonna be in a heartbeat. I have seen it so many times that others don't reel in, then all of a sudden I got 2 others fishermans line tangled into my fish, and then my fish breaks off. Be kind to others so they will be kind to you. Reel your stuff in and enjoy watching how others catch the steelies so that you may learn how to yourself.

Ok enough about break walls. Long story short. Go to walls, cast spoons and spinners. Get hooked up. Enjoy the fight of the great steelhead.

Below are some pics of spinners and spoons I use.









cheers!!!!

flash-----------------------------------------------out




I have been reading alot of posts lately about some of our newest steelhead fisherman hunting for their first steelhead, and not having alot of luck. I would like to help all of you out by giving some more tips and tricks to you all. 

Lets face it....we are now in full swing winter....the river temps are now down to the point that anything that swims is gonna be lethargic to say the least. Below are some tips to hopefully help you in your search for steelhead.

1. Now more than ever the saying "90% of the fish are in 10% of the rivers" holds true. If you not catching fish, your either in the wrong spot or read tip #2

2. Tis the season to put the bait on the tip of the steelheads nose. No really, you need to make sure your bait is either bouncing off bottom or within about 6" of the bottom. Steelhead don't tend to chase after your offering this time of year. They usually only bite on those baits that are presented on the tip of their nose.

3. Check the web for the flow gauge readings prior to departing for your local stream. If you don't know what the optimal readings are, you need to find them out. Both flow and clarity are key to having any chance at a successful day of steelhead fishing. For example, I fish the Chagrin. Flow at 300cfs and I am going to fish a certain stretch, 250cfs I will fish another, and anything above 350cfs I prefer to head to another river. 

4. Jig/maggot or spawn????? This question gets asked alot. Both what to use and how to use them......Here are some tips for you on the topic.....If you don't have FRESH spawn, when I say fresh, I don't mean store bought from those little jars at Gander or Dicks, then your wasting your time with spawn...You need to get eggs from either a fresh fish, or get them from sometwhere like Erie Outfitters that gets fresh spawn in.....If you have no access to fresh spawn, you need to use jig/maggot....

I see alot of posts asking what color of jig.....thats like asking what color to use when bass fishing or crappie fishing....everyone has their go to color that they have confidence in, but that doesn't mean the fish will hit it that day. You need a variety of jigs in differant colors.....switch up the color every 15 minutes if you get no hits. The maggots you put on are just for scent....Hence when the maggots look faded, put on fresh maggots.

5. It doesn't matter if you use jig/maggot or spawn sacks....If your not in the right spot or your not fishing the right depth, refer back to Tip #2.

6. Some have asked how you know how deep to fish.....You need be approx. 6" or closer to the bottom of the river bed....How do you know how deep that is??? You NEED a float with a stem on the top of it....NOT a float that is styrafoam with the lead weight....You are going to need to learn what that stem is telling you as it is drifting down the river....I will give you some pointers.

A. If the stem of your float is pointed downstream...a.k.a. It is pointed in the direction of the current.....You presentation is dragging the bottom of the river bed. "You float is set too deep"

B. If the stem of your float is pointed upstream....a.k.a. It is pointed opposite the direction of the flow....Your presentation is leading your float...."This can be both good and bad depending on how your fishing" I suggest you adjust the ammount of weight you have approx. 12" from your presentation...making it heavier, hence putting the presentation closer to the bottom of the river bed.

C. If the sem of your float appears to be pointed straight up/down....your presentation isn't on the bottom of the river bed. Now realize that the river bottom is ever changing...lots of humps, pockets, holes, etc....So as your bait floats it may tick the bottom every once in a while of which you can tell by that stem on your float.....

The trick to getting the right float height takes practice. You should be adjusting your float every single cast until such time that you are convinced that your bait is somewhere around 6" to just on bottom. If you don't care to do this, then stay home your wasting your time.....

Watch how deep others are fishing and start there. Other tactic is to start by adjusting your float about 4' deep, cast upstream and drift....watch that float...what is it doing...if the stem is pointed downstream, then your too deep...if not, adjust your float.

Learning exactly what your float is telling you is key and what you should focus on. If you don't know where your bait is in the water column, then your not going to catch fish.

7. How to tie and use spawn sacks.....There has been many questions about spawn and what it is all about....There are differant types of eggs that we tie up into tiny sized sacks...

A. Steelhead
B. Brown Trout
C. King Salmon

Each egg looks a bit differant and in many cases is a differant size egg. Some Eggs are singular and others are bulked together by connective tissue. Then there is the cure vs. non-cured....to each their own....If you get your hands on spawn that is fresh or freshly cured, your much better off than the clear jars of it from the store.

I have had the best luck with spawn sacks tied up pretty small with single eggs. I put 3 eggs into 1 sack and use a small size 10 egg hook. 

Colors of mesh for the spawn sack have been questioned. Each person has their go to color. The fish change their mood so have 3 basic colors tied up. White, Pink, and Floro Green has been my choices.

8. So the keys to success are location, depth of presentation, fresh spawn or jig/maggot.

9. How to find the right spot to fish? You need to see if you can hookup with someone that knows of some fishing holes that are holding fish....As unless you know where they are holding your wasting your time, or you can do some research and find the public access spots to the river you wish to fish, go to it and learn from those that are fishing there, but the better option in the long run is to try and do some scouting in the spring/summer time and wade the rivers and find some nice holes that can produce in the winter.

Trying to get hooked up with steelhead in the winter is hard in itself due to their temperment. Not having confidence in your location doesn't help the matter, nor does not knowing how deep to fish, not knowing how to read that float, not having fresh spawn, etc.....


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## Jkish (Oct 19, 2009)

KSU outstanding post!


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## UpTheCreek (Jan 24, 2009)

There is A LOT of wisdom in what KSU says. Read and reread his posts until you have them memorized and can recite them in your sleep. One of the most important things I've learned about steelheading is to be flexible and adaptable. This means being willing to change locations on a river, changing rivers if need be, and trying different lures/baits in various colors and even different rods and methods. If you are stuck on one pattern and rooted to one spot you may catch a fish or two, but you will not get full enjoyment from the sport.


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## UpTheCreek (Jan 24, 2009)

What is the difference between a "chute" and a "run"?


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## dmat (Dec 6, 2008)

I had another question about trolling for steelhead this time of year and at other times. I am interested in information about depth to run lures, seasonal depths to fish, and lure types. I've had luck with cookie dipsies set at 3 out 50' at times, during the fall, with spoons. I've not had luck with crankbaits such as lil rippers yet, as I have heard of others using them with success. Does anyone else have a system that works for them when streams are low in the fall and they fish at the mouths of streams or around break walls in the Lake? I'm interested in seasonal patterns too, in terms of depths targeted in the summer and programs that have been succesful. I catch a few trolling for walleye periodically in the central and eastern portions of the Lake, but I'm looking to increase my success to target them more directly. All input is appreciated. dmat.


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## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

KSUFLASH said:


> Every year around this time and even more so when it gets closer to steelheading, I read alot of posts in regards to steelheading and those whom are beginners. Lots of questions from gear, to presentations, to water clarity, to where, etc...
> 
> I figured I would throw out my experiences, and try to explain all this steelhead in a manner of which someone as a beginner could understand. Heck I am no pro, but I certainly remember being a beginner and not catching a thing and thinking these steelhead are tough to catch. Quite the contrary actually. With a little knowledge you can get into some steelhead and have a fun day on the water.
> 
> ...


How long have you been steelheading??


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

I have been steelheading for 10 years now.

-KSU


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## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

Wow! 10 years and you're the board authority on everything steelhead....Nice! Why be so humble then and say _"Heck I am no pro, but I certainly remember being a beginner and not catching a thing and thinking these steelhead are tough to catch."_ Then follow it up with a 10 page report on the ins and outs of steelheading?

All the answers, seminars, your own line of floats your own steelhead site....you sure act like a pro. Might as well call yourself one. Good Job dude!:good:


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

I think I sense a tinge of sarcasm. Dunno why, but it's there....

I am a sooper-nUUb when it comes to the steel, and I appreciate the information KSU. ShutUpNFish should one-up KSU and provide an even longer, 180 page thread laying out even better information (including every honey hole you have) so that I can increase my learning curve by 20x.


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

There are plenty more guys on the web that know more than me, I just cover some of the basics. 

Over the years the forums have soured the taste in some steelhead fishermans mouth. Many battles have been had, and words exchanged. Those same guys that I learned from and continue to turn too for advice are still around, they just don't post as much as they used to. 

I just try and keep passing along info to those that seek it. Sometimes a quick paragraph is all it takes. Other times I get wordy...haha..

The 10 page book that you speak of is just me sitting down for a few days a long while ago and typing up some answers to alot of common questions that I had, and that I see asked regularly.

I am not a pro by any means. I occasionaly fish with some guys that I consider pro's, and they put a spanking on me...haha..

It is just my hope that by helping someone build their base knowledge of the fishery, that they may someday pass it down to others. My true joy is watching a guy catch his first steelhead. The look on his face of excitement and accomplishment brings back the memories that I had when I got my first one.

Now who's going to take me musky fishing? I don't know jack about that.


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## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

_"I think I sense a tinge of sarcasm. Dunno why, but it's there....

I am a sooper-nUUb when it comes to the steel, and I appreciate the information KSU. ShutUpNFish should one-up KSU and provide an even longer, 180 page thread laying out even better information (including every honey hole you have) so that I can increase my learning curve by 20x." _

LOL! Thats funny. No, thats OK...I'm one of those guys who believes that experience and knowledge comes mostly from self motivated hard work, learning from mistakes and experimentation. And those who acquire them that way will appreciate it a whole lot more! Old school if you will. There is a fine line between getting a little help/assistance and "spoonfeeding". 

I'm an educator, but NO advocate of "instant gratification"!


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

way to get them started Ben.........J/K


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

ksuflash said:


> there are plenty more guys on the web that know more than me, i just cover some of the basics.
> 
> Over the years the forums have soured the taste in some steelhead fishermans mouth. Many battles have been had, and words exchanged. Those same guys that i learned from and continue to turn too for advice are still around, they just don't post as much as they used to.
> 
> ...



amen.......


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

Speaking of seminars, I'm giving one at Gander mountain in twinsburg on Dec. 27th from 12 noon to 3pm and gander in mentor Jan. 9th from 12-3pm on basics for beginners. come on out and say hi.


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## Bassdude (Feb 2, 2006)

Great stuff KSU! I just started fishing for steelhead this year, and I am definitely addicted! All your information is extremely helpful!

I have another question (for anyone) -- when do the fish start moving up into the rivers? Is this continuous starting in September, or does it depend on water temperature, air temperature, river height, river flow, rain, snow, etc.?


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

Bassdude said:


> Great stuff KSU! I just started fishing for steelhead this year, and I am definitely addicted! All your information is extremely helpful!
> 
> I have another question (for anyone) -- when do the fish start moving up into the rivers? Is this continuous starting in September, or does it depend on water temperature, air temperature, river height, river flow, rain, snow, etc.?


it has to due with everything you just said bass dude, thats why when the rivers are real down and water is gin clear and you can walk across the river with out getting you feet wet, alot of times it can be real good fishing at the mouths of the rivers or breakwalls and the power plants in the middle of einter(avon-cei and e.72), your going to have fish staging to come up when we do get rain.


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

I did a search on Amazon.com for steelhead books. I stopped counting them after 150 books. I guess those authors are also "spoonfeeding" in some guys eyes.

Is it "spoonfeeding" if I teach my son the right way to catch steelhead at a young age? Or, should I just let him figure it out himself?

Is it "spoonfeeding" if I see someone trying to cross a river during unsafe currents? Or, should I just watch him risk his life?

Is it "spoonfeeding" that seminars are put on at Gander Mountain, or the Metro Parks to teach others the basics? 

I know that it is appreciated by many on here that some of us still try and help where we can. 

It's funny that I get called a "spoonfeeder" when I am helping pass along the basic information on how to get started. 



> What people don't know won't hurt them....I worked my A$$ off to get to where I am today. I'll be damned if I'm just going to give up hard earned info to everybody on the net. With that said....I'd NEVER hesitate to take a guy out fishing, especially a novice who has the passion and appreciation for the sport.
> 
> And like 1Roof said, this isn't steelhead, crappies or bass....you're talking about territorial fish that do not school and are not typically plentiful in most cases....excluding St. Clair


 I thought I was in the steelhead forum, so it must be OK to post helpful info that people don't know. So say's ShutupNFish...Oh wait, is he contradicting himself now? Steelhead, Crappie, and Bass are ok, but don't be messin with the musky....LMAO!!! But I am sure you will certainly take information from the web.

It's all good, I will continue to post what helpful details I want, when I want, regardless of what the nay'sayers think.

Lastly, I will agree that posting specific spots isn't smart, but my opinion on how to catch them shouldn't be a problem.


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## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

KSUFLASH said:


> I did a search on Amazon.com for steelhead books. I stopped counting them after 150 books. I guess those authors are also "spoonfeeding" in some guys eyes.
> 
> Is it "spoonfeeding" if I teach my son the right way to catch steelhead at a young age? Or, should I just let him figure it out himself?
> 
> ...


Theres really no need to get defensive or explain yourself, especially since you seem to already know it all.

You go right ahead and continue to do what you do. Whatever makes you feel good pal. However, I have seen the evolvments occur over years of fishing and for various species of fish. 30+ in fact. Way before the days of the computer/internet etc. You cannot deny the FACT that you are feeding the "instant gratification" age with every little detail of info that was obviously fed to you. Is this healthy or positive? I don't know, but I simply base my beliefs on what I see going on around me and based on what I've experienced in the past. Do you actually think things are better because of the info you're spewing out on the net? And get real...a seminar at Gander Mtn. or on the stream somewhere actually require some effort by people actually taking the innitiative and going to do something. Thats a little different then a million viewers on the internet. Even reading a book or magazine publication. Are you really helping others? Or are you simply proud that people are listening to and buying into what you say and that, in some way, makes you feel empowered or super special? 

Come on dude...its one thing to answer a basic question with a simple answer. Its a whole other thing to feel the need to go off with every little detail and breaking things down as if its rocket science or something.....Its fishing for God sakes....go out, be persistant, be confident and be focused and learn from your mistakes....If people cannot take anything from that, they need to find something else to do!

And theres no need to bring muskie fishing into this....stick to the subject at hand because you certainly don't want to embarras yourself anymore than you already have...


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

I'll bite on this one....regardless how much someone posts on this forum or any other forum on steelhead fishing reading about it doesn't mean jack squat. I've been fishing for steelies in the river for 10 years and I still suck at it and I've put alot of time and effort it.. I have all the right stuff and do all the right things (well obviously not LOL) I just don't have the knack for it like some guys do...just because you read about it doesn't mean your going to go out and do it. I help alot of guys on open water trolling and enjoy helping guys put more fish in the boat etc but I would hardly call myself a spoon feeder you still have to go out and go through the trials and tribulations of a learning angler...however I will add that guys who learn on there own are better sticks at the end of the day.


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## MuskieJim (Apr 11, 2007)

ShutUpNFish said:


> Do you actually think things are better because of the info you're spewing out on the net? And get real...a seminar at Gander Mtn. or on the stream somewhere actually require some effort by people actually taking the innitiative and going to do something. Thats a little different then a million viewers on the internet. Even reading a book or magazine publication. Are you really helping others?
> ...



Very true. It's incredibly easy for someone to log onto a website.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

now it's my turn.............................shutup,why should he not get defensive after you sarcasm and insults?and you told me you weren't being sarcastic,LOL.
you obviously only wanted to stir the pot and wasn't interested in what was posted,so your best move would have been to live up to your name.....................pass this thread over and just SHUT UP and fish.
you just shown once again,why people hesitate to post here.so you should be the one embarrassed,but you seem to regard yourself too highly for that


btw,did you get that obnoxious all on your own,or did somebody spoon feed you lessons?


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

alot of times info on a site like this helps, but for the most part you have to try it for your self. Ive read alot of books and watched alot of videos in my life on steel and found that they really didnt do squat for me. You have to go and find a way to catch steel that works for you, you have to watch the guys who r catching steel, where people r catching steel, ask questions from guys who are catching steel and just pay attention and try differant things each time as you go out. Books are just words on paper that make the author $$$$ who got 75% of his info from the web...
Heres the point im trying to make,,, one day i was down on the rock and it was me and a little old timer down on a ford. the fish were everywhere rolling. I threw everything I had at them, brown eggs, steel eggs, minnows, jigs and what ever else i had in my vest, and here was this little old man standing on the ford in his yellow rubber boots, using a 6' spinning combo hammering the steel. he caught well over 10 to my 0... So i had to go and ask him what he was doing... He showed me,,, he was using a 2" crappie tube jig with a pink head jigging it off the bottom. He said these fish havnt seen one of these float a hundred times past there head.
Ive never read in any book, or seen in any steel video that a 2'CRAPPIE TUBE JIG will catch you steel. But that day I learned somthing..... not from a book, not from a video, not from the forums of OGF, but from watching a little old timer who was using a 6' spin combo in yellow rubber boots, with his cane hanging off his hip jigging crappie tube jigs off the bottom with colors that no one has threw in front of there face slamming the steel.

THERE ARE ALOT OF GREAT STEEL FISHERMEN ON HERE WHO LOVE TO HELP OUT PEOPLE,,AND THERES ALOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE WHO HATE THE GUYS HELPING OUT THE OTHERS BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF WHAT THE NEWBIE WILL BECOME!!!!! 
Ben might not have been fishing for as long as alot of us has, but he goes out of his way to help others catch fish,,, and thats a true fisherman!!!!!! My hats off to you Ben!!!!


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

HA! And to think that Paul was strokin me in Private Messages for floats just weeks ago. Move along...Move along.. get your freebies elsewhere. 

FYI, they stock 1.6 million steelhead between PA and OH yearly, so I think there is enough to go around.

Also, I think you forgot to quote me properly. You actually left out my quote of you. I can help ya with that.




> I did a search on Amazon.com for steelhead books. I stopped counting them after 150 books. I guess those authors are also "spoonfeeding" in some guys eyes.
> 
> Is it "spoonfeeding" if I teach my son the right way to catch steelhead at a young age? Or, should I just let him figure it out himself?
> 
> ...


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## MuskieJim (Apr 11, 2007)

I am all for helping people, no doubt about it. I added that stupid diagram to try to show guys what I'm talking about when I say a leader or spreading your shot. I think that sometimes people view "spoonfeeding" as giving somone the exact forumla for catching fish. I don't neccessarily think this is always a bad thing, because lets face it, someone who is coming online to read about how to fish likely isn't going to be all that great until the gain EXPERIENCE. You can read all the books in the world about how, where, and when to fish, but until you actually get out there and do it all the knowledge in the world isnt going to help. I think this is the point that Paul is trying to make in the midst of all of this. Nothing will ever replace going out and seeing how it's done, whether it be at the river or a seminar. 

It's a fine line to walk. Some of the old timers in the musky community see the internet as the downfall of musky fishing. Why? Because people can come and find the hot bite or hot lure when others are out there figuring it out for themselves. Regardless of the species you fish for, we all have to keep in mind that forums can hurt as well as help. 

I've fished with a lot of guys on the site whom I still talk to and fish with still. We will all sometimes comment about a post and everyone will know what we're talking about. Internet forums spread like wildfire. That being said, I dont think that Flash ever has any bad intentions, he's a genuinely good dude who has good intentions. 

:G Can't we all just get along?????


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

who's betting on the browns this weekend???? LMAO


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

Are the Browns blacked out this weekend? I hope so. Maybe I can watch the Steelers then.


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## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

misfit, you seemed fine with the supposed sarcasm in your PM to me?...I asked if you wanted me to remove the post and you said I didn't have to. Pretty literal if you ask me. And you have my word that I will no longer carry on this issue any further since my point has been made...thanks for being so patient(no sarcasm intended).

I really am not looking for a war here KSU...I understand your desire to offer newbies a helping hand. You see, I'm a realist and a very literal tell it the way it is person and I'm sorry if that may offend some of you more sensitive types. As I said before, I'd be the first to take a guy out fishing and I have. However, whats wrong with the element of earning something instead of just having it handed to you on a silver platter? I'm not going to go over this time and time again...I'm sure you all get my point and get KSU's I respect your way of doing things, but just want you to know that not all the thousands of people who are taking in what you have to offer truely appreciate it and you will get burned in the end....Trust me, I've experienced it first hand. 

And I PMed you about your floats, yes...not asking for something FREE, you pompass A$$....did I not offer to pay for them at first? Or should I dig out the exact PM that I sent you??? A real man would clarify that publically...you know YOU were the one offering up your floats for free! I still think your floats are pretty cool looking as I did when I inquirred about them, but now that your true colors have obviously shined through, you know where you can stick them!

GO STEELERS!


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

haha...sure you offered to pay, you also were very happy to take one for free since I didn't have many to sell at the time. Jumping on the offer like stink on "poop". After you found that I was willing to send one out for free, you and I had several PM transactions about it. No need for me to post them all, but below I can see how happy you were then...



Now that this post has been effectivley railroaded, I will get back to helping others get hooked into steelies, and working on my new float logos. "Woody's Sit and Spin Specials"

Time to go work on some photoshop design ideas.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> .I asked if you wanted me to remove the post and you said I didn't have to


nice try,but no cigar.you said you weren't being sarcastic,but would remove it.i said if it in fact was not sarcasm,it wouldn't need removed.ut you and i and everyone else knows it was sarcasm,so if you'd removed it,you wouldn't be embarrassing yourself again by spinning the truth.

to ben..............i edited out that pm because it is against ogf policy to post other people's pm's in the open forums,no matter the content.there's a reason they're called "private" messages.

now,since this thread has served it's purpose and also been railroaded as mentioned,it's time to end it.


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