# Instant Justice...



## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

Hmmm. 
Simple Math - Burglar with a long list of priors + stealing cancer drugs & other items from an elderly man + someone who stopped this from happening again = instant justice.

http://www.nbc4i.com/video?clipId=9017325&autostart=true


----------



## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

This happened about a mile from My house, this Guy is a notorious thief, he's on camera stealing from these people before.
The Guy who shot Him is a very good man, loving Husband and Father it is sad that He might be facing Murder charges over this low life


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

From what I read, the problem the defendant is going to have is he hid in the woods and waited on the guy. He won't be able to claim self defense, castle doctrine, or really, anything.


----------



## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

RiverWader said:


> This happened about a mile from My house, this Guy is a notorious thief, he's on camera stealing from these people before.
> The Guy who shot Him is a very good man, loving Husband and Father it is sad that He might be facing Murder charges over this low life
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I'm sorry this sort of thing reached so close to your neighborhood. But it's happening everywhere. This guy has dozens of priors. And is suspected of many other crimes. I'm not one to advocate violence. But a neighbor said when they turned the thief over, he had a key to the home and a knife. Case closed. Problem solved. Instant justice.


----------



## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

The Guy didn't wait in the woods on Him. he was actually shooting to scare him, He was also performing CPR trying to save the guy when LEO arrived 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

No matter how much of a scumbag this guy was, he was shot and killed without posing any harm to anyone before being shot (according to the video) the shooter is going to prison.


----------



## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

You're entitled to Your opinion, but We as a community are going to do EVERYTHING We can to not let it happen. And as far as not. Posing a threat to the home owners , they were home at the time this event happened


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

ezbite said:


> No matter how much of a scumbag this guy was, he was shot and killed without posing any harm to anyone before being shot (according to the video) the shooter is going to prison.


I hope not. Two news agency's have reported two different responses from law officials. One news agency said that the shooter would be indicted, the other said he wouldnt.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

If he shot the guy while running away, that's murder in my book. No struggle, told the guy to stop, fires two shots, te guy takes off running, third shot kills the guy? Yeah, he's going to jail hopefully for a long time. Take a fist or a bat to the guy. Take his life? I dunno about that.


----------



## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

So he's supposed to wait for a struggle first?? Ok got ya, I feel the only He did wrong was tell Anyone, He should have just burried him in a shallow grave somewhere, Every one would of thought He ODed somewhere 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Indeed it is sad events turned out as they did. We have a similar situation with an older herion addict here in Springfield; guy has been using for 25+ yrs, he brazenly (or just uncaringly) robs anyone with $5. Apparently had been to rehab in excess of 12 times. Last yr he snatched a purse from an older woman at the Krogers on E Main St, and she fractured her hip; he proceeded to rob her house 3 or 4 times after having to kill her dog. Her Son in law finally took a couple of days off and waited on him; sure enough. he breaks open the back door again and the son in law just FREAKED OUT on him; the police were called by the woman`s neighbors and actually prevented him from killing the sorry piece of crap, but the dude who stole the purse and broke the woman`s hip, and killed her dog then proceeded to just RANSACK her house had his eye get hurt from the son in law`s boot and is trying to sue...If I seem inhumane, so be it, but think this particular drug addict likely needs tarred with napalm and feathered and lit with a match...the TRUELY sad thing is IF he wins his friviolous "I didn`t deserve to get kicked in the eye after robbing her, breaking her hip, killing her dog and repeatedly robbing her house" he at least WILL certainly DIE of an OVERDOSE with his "settlement" money. HURRAY ! and GOOD RIDDENCE to a vile uncaring piece of human garbage...Karma can be a bear...


----------



## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

_"The (shooting) suspect was not believed to be in any danger," Blackburn said. "He shot a fleeing burglary suspect&#8230; The home was unoccupied."..............[/]

Again based on what he has heard from sheriff's investigators, Blackburn said, it appears that "the alleged shooter lay in wait in the woods (outside the home), allowing (Rutter) to leave the house." The man has allegedly told officers he fired three warning shots to try to get Rutter to stop, then fired at him three times, hitting him once and killing him.

The above from the Athens News. The whole story here: 
http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-40074-grand-jury-to-hear-case-on-fatal-glouster-shooting.html_


----------



## flippin fool (Apr 3, 2006)

all i can think about right now is how those people he robbed worked their asses off for everything they have. he even stole pain meds from a cancer patient? they should give the shooter a medal of honor? just my opinion?


----------



## RiverCat (May 25, 2012)

flippin fool said:


> all i can think about right now is how those people he robbed worked their asses off for everything they have. he even stole pain meds from a cancer patient? they should give the shooter a medal of honor? just my opinion?


I'm thinking the same thing. Chances are if he survived, he'd be doing the same thing a few months from now. I will not show any sympathy for these kind of people.


----------



## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

RiverWader said:


> So he's supposed to wait for a struggle first?? Ok got ya, I feel the only He did wrong was tell Anyone, He should have just burried him in a shallow grave somewhere, Every one would of thought He ODed somewhere


Actually that was my first thought. I know folks down in that area and what you suggested surprised me that it didnt.


----------



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Dovans said:


> I hope not. Two news agency's have reported two different responses from law officials. One news agency said that the shooter would be indicted, the other said he wouldnt.


hey, im not on the skumbags side, im just voicing my opinion from the media statement.


----------



## CATMAN447 (Jun 12, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> If he shot the guy while running away, that's murder in my book. No struggle, told the guy to stop, fires two shots, te guy takes off running, third shot kills the guy? Yeah, he's going to jail hopefully for a long time. Take a fist or a bat to the guy. Take his life? I dunno about that.


You couldn't be more right. With a key to the house AND a knife, I'm sure this fine, upstanding gentlemen had nothing but the best intentions in mind. He was probably just going to make the shooter a sandwich or something. Maybe even bake him a cake. Hopefully, they pin a medal to this poor man's chest and give him a hero's funeral. Maybe have a parade in his honor. Shame on the homeowner for being so proactive in staying alive and making sure this never happens again. 

Meanwhile, here in reality, the world is a better place without that P.O.S. taking another breath.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Yeah, he's going to jail hopefully for a long time. Take a fist or a bat to the guy. Take his life? I dunno about that.


Another statement that leaves me scratching my head.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Lets start shooting people who speed cause they might kill someone in a high speed accident. If your worried justin bieber might run over your kids shoot him first...same for all the drunks and drug users..lets shoot and kill them before they do something...it would clean the world up quick.....

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

If the facts presented are correct then the shooter is guilty of murder IMO. I have my CCW and I'm sure a lot of the people on the shooters side do as well. The real question is though you condone his actions would you have done the exact same thing that he did, and risk a 2nd degree murder charge?


----------



## Nubes (Dec 3, 2012)

sometimes you gotta pay to play....he certainly paid but I don't think theres much playing where hes at??


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> If he shot the guy while running away, that's murder in my book. No struggle, told the guy to stop, fires two shots, te guy takes off running, third shot kills the guy? Yeah, he's going to jail hopefully for a long time. Take a fist or a bat to the guy. Take his life? I dunno about that.


* Please refer to your signature. * So some kids should have to visit their father in jail because he did his job and protected his family. If someone breaks into my house they will not get the chance to pose a threat to my family and I won't fire any warning shots. The guy is a hero he rid the world of one of the many pieces of crap walking this planet.


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

imalt IF the man was fleeing and he shot him he broke the law. There was no evidence that anyone was in immediate grave danger and the castle doctrine will not apply. The burden of proof is in the hands of the law, and he has made their case for them. No matter how much of a POS the alleged intruder was, the shooter had no right to kill him. Now if the shooter was in the house and the intruder walked in, shoot to kill, take no chances.


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

samfishdyt said:


> imalt IF the man was fleeing and he shot him he broke the law. There was no evidence that anyone was in grave physical danger and the castle doctrine will not apply. The burden of proof is in the hands of the law, and he has made their case for them.


I understand the law. And the law is bull crap. If someone had broke into your house numerous times and who knows what an intruder would do if confronted but I would not give that person the oppurtunity to do it again. I don't really understand why the guy was hiding in the woods instead of waiting in his house. So I understand that he broke the law by shooting the guy but I understand his position also. What he should of done was drag the sob into the woods to rot after he shot him. Jail does no good for these drugged out zombies that are running around now. They are a waste of life that only care about their next fix and could care less who they have to ripoff to get it. Things are ass backwards when the bad guys have rights.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

bobk said:


> Another statement that leaves me scratching my head.


Hey Bob, you do something that I think is bad so I have a license to kill you? Not here in America thankfully. How many bad things does it take for me to get the license to kill you? Quite an interesting concept here. Rob a house a couple times and its open season. I get it.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Silent Mike said:


> agreed....why do you wish the good guy "hopefully" goes to jail for a long time?


Because you cant take the law into your own hands and take another persons life unless you are defending your own. Which it doesn't sound like he was. Thats murder bud. Put some locks on your door? Set up surveilance, send the guy to jail? Howd the guy have a key? Change the locks?? If the guy was robbing everyones house, where was the evidence and why wasn't he in jail? Not adding up. Trayvon Martin anyone? I have no patience or sympathy for those types. He didn't go there with stopping the crime in mind, he was out to end the guy. Bah.

Secnario:
Neighbors daughter has an abortion. Shes a murderer right? She actually KILLED someone right? Is it ok to take her life? Whats the difference? Shes an actual murderer not a petty thief.

In some countries, she would be put to death. Adultery is also punishable by death. Do we want to be that society? You guys are condoning the killing of a petty thief. You are well on your way I'd say. Savages.


----------



## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

This story is exactly why I would never apply for a CCW permit,or even own a gun for that matter.If I did,I most likely would've done the same thing the suspect did in this story,and I would be most likely headed for a lengthy prison stay.I don't possess the right demeanor to carry a gun,that's why I don't,obviously this guy shouldn't have been either.I believe 100% that his intentions were honorable,unfortunately he killed an unarmed man that posed no threat to anyone,like it or not(or agree with it or not),this guy will be charged with murder most likely second degree.If the court wants to they could really put the screws to him,hiding in wait for somebody borders on premeditated-doesn't it? The guy never had any right,or reason to shoot at the scumbag I'm sure that's what the court will decide.Sad situation,the guy did what he thought was right,but legally it just isn't.


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Because you cant take the law into your own hands and take another persons life unless you are defending your own. Which it doesn't sound like he was. Thats murder bud. Put some god damn locks on your door? Set up surveilance, send the guy to jail? If the guy was robbing everyones house, where was the evidence and why wasn't he in jail? Not adding up. Trayvon Martin anyone? I have no patience or sympathy for those types. He didn't go there with stopping the crime in mind, he was out to end the guy. Bah.
> 
> Secnario:
> Neighbors daughter has an abortion. Shes a murderer right? She actually KILLED someone right? Is it ok to take her life? Whats the difference? Shes an actual murderer not a petty thief.
> ...



So if someone breaks into your house do you help them carry out your tv so they don't hurt their back. Do you offer them a drink of water so they don't become dehydrated. I am not scared of the so called savages that we are all becoming. I am terrified of the people that share your views though. The everyone makes the team we don't keep score people. The criminals are just going thru a rough patch in their life. That guy the cops shot running from them a 3am was just about to turn his life around. Treyvon Martin going to the store at 2am to get some skittles for his uncle and not breaking into houses. What a joke this country has become when the law abiding citizens are the ones that have to face the jury and not the criminals.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

http://patriot-newswire.com/2012/01/what-is-castle-doctrine-and-how-does-it-apply-to-me/

Pretty much how I feel.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

imalt said:


> So if someone breaks into your house do you help them carry out your tv so they don't hurt their back. Do you offer them a drink of water so they don't become dehydrated. I am not scared of the so called savages that we are all becoming. I am terrified of the people that share your views though. The everyone makes the team we don't keep score people. The criminals are just going thru a rough patch in their life. That guy the cops shot running from them a 3am was just about to turn his life around. Treyvon Martin going to the store at 2am to get some skittles for his uncle and not breaking into houses. What a joke this country has become when the law abiding citizens are the ones that have to face the jury and not the criminals.


I don't think I've said one word in defense of what the criminal did. If someone broke into my house, my dogs will take care of them. I don't have a gun at the ready. If I did, I'd yell at the guy to stop and get on the ground. He'd have about 2 seconds to comply. If he's rushing me, he dies. But thats a whole difference scenario from which we're talking about here.



> Yager said the presumption in the Castle Doctrine is the shooting was an act of self-defense. As with every rule, there are exceptions. A few of them are:
> 
> » The person entering the house cannot have privilege to be there. For example, you can&#8217;t throw your spouse out of the house and shoot them when they try to re-enter the home.
> 
> ...


If none of that makes sense to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Taken from:
http://patriot-newswire.com/2012/01/what-is-castle-doctrine-and-how-does-it-apply-to-me/


----------



## Shaggy (Oct 24, 2008)

First of all we can't assume that any of the information that's been let out is accurate so we don't know the particulars and probably never will. I have to ask myself if this guy was a known and notorious petty thief why wasn't he already in jail? Because our legal system now cares more about the rights of the criminal than they do the victim. This guy preyed upon the same elderly couple multiple times, stealing cancer drugs. Who's going to replace those drugs for the people? This guy was just one teeny, tiny step above a child molester. Obviously the law couldn't protect people from this guy and in my opinion they had the right to be protected. In my opinion people shouldn't have to put locks on their doors. Anyone who enters uninvited knows they are not wanted there and runs the risk of bad things happening. This guy was lucky many, many times and the law of averages finally caught up with him. It's just too bad the shooter was a bad marksman and had to waste an additional five cartridges. I vote for justifiable homicide.


----------



## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Hopefully a temporary insanity plea can get him off or a reduced sentence. Otherwise I'm afraid he's in doo doo.


----------



## Guest (Jun 25, 2013)

This guy needs some justice too!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl7|sec1_lnk2&pLid=335475


----------



## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

First, let me say, I agree, we as a world may be a slightly better place without the deceased scumbag, but, some of you guys appear to be missing some key points here. 

1) this was not the shooters house that was robbed.
2) although someone lives there, the house was unoccupied at the time.
3) the shooter was in no danger.
4) the deceased posed no visible threat to anybody else.
5) it appears the shooter fired 6 rounds
6) besides a knife, which many here carry everyday themselves, the deceased was unarmed.
7) many of you do not understand the operation, or lack thereof, of the Athens County Sheriff's Office. Sheriff Kelly, as a police officer, he was found guilty of perjury, or, lying under oath in a court of law concerning a past case, in which, he was the expert witness, but, since he was elected, none of this matters. However, his office is currently being investigated by the BCI, for possible evidence tampering, and, unlawful destruction of records. 
8) considering number 7, how effective do you suppose his office is? 
9) it is the prosecutors job to prosecute. They didn't write the laws, however, they are charged with proving they were broken. They cannot stand by, and allow felonies to be committed, regardless of public opinion, or, selectively prosecute given the facts.

I don't like it any more than most of you, but, the facts, thus far, indicate the shooter will be held accountable. Maybe he can buy some time with a temporary insanity plea?


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

tubuzz2 said:


> This guy needs some justice too!
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl7|sec1_lnk2&pLid=335475


This situation is the exact opposite of the one mentioned by the op. Deadly force would be justifiable in this case. [email protected]


----------



## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

As far as Zimmerman, HOW MANY times did the police dispatcher TELL him to await the police? SEVERAL at least. He tried a "citizen`s arrest, got his (deleted) kicked and shot the kid in the back as he was leaving "in `self defense`". Enjoy prison. BTW show me where the kid was EVER charged with ANYTHING, except being BLACK?


----------



## RiverWader (Apr 1, 2006)

Massillon Buck , You asked where the evidence was he was robbing people, Well today they found items that were stolen from the elderly couple at the local pawn shop in the dead guys name. As for how he got a key no one really knows. Also the guys girlfriend was helping him that day, She was his lookout


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Reel em In (Jun 20, 2004)

imalt said:


> So if someone breaks into your house do you help them carry out your tv so they don't hurt their back. Do you offer them a drink of water so they don't become dehydrated. I am not scared of the so called savages that we are all becoming. I am terrified of the people that share your views though. The everyone makes the team we don't keep score people. The criminals are just going thru a rough patch in their life. That guy the cops shot running from them a 3am was just about to turn his life around. Treyvon Martin going to the store at 2am to get some skittles for his uncle and not breaking into houses. What a joke this country has become when the law abiding citizens are the ones that have to face the jury and not the criminals.


Treyvon Martin did not go out at 2:30AM. He went out about 6:00pm and was shot about 7:30pm as he was returning from the 7-11 store. Its sad that George Zimmerman did not listen to the dispatcher and break off his chase of this boy.


----------



## Carver (Jan 20, 2010)

What you tolerate you get more of. This is a problem created by the justice system. This guy should have been locked up and this would have never happened. Instead they keep putting these scumbags back on the streets to commit another crime.


----------



## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

AGREED. If you aren`t going to (or CAN NOT) actually "cure", "fix", rehabilitate a CAREER criminal, LOCK him (her, it, ect) up and throw away the key. Or, do what many "civilized" countries do...execute them after a legal trial and appeal. Many countries simply just DO NOT "warehouse" felony criminals. They EXECUTE them. They have almost a ZERO "repeat offender" problem, and do not suffer from prison overcrowding...


----------



## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

Lowell H Turner said:


> AGREED. If you aren`t going to (or CAN NOT) actually "cure", "fix", rehabilitate a CAREER criminal, LOCK him (her, it, ect) up and throw away the key. Or, do what many "civilized" countries do...execute them after a legal trial and appeal. Many countries simply just DO NOT "warehouse" felony criminals. They EXECUTE them. They have almost a ZERO "repeat offender" problem, and do not suffer from prison overcrowding...


X2. if this had been done, we wouldn't be talking about a good citizen, who is now going to be a defendant.


----------



## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Lowell H Turner said:


> As far as Zimmerman, HOW MANY times did the police dispatcher TELL him to await the police? SEVERAL at least.


Actually...none. The dispatcher said "Are you following him now." Yes. "You don't need to be doing that."

Z was walking back to his car, and within 30 yards, when he was jumped by T. As verified by the scene of the incident.




Lowell H Turner said:


> As far as Zimmerman... He tried a "citizen`s arrest..


No, he did not. Z observed T for a few minutes, and told the dispatcher he lost visual contact. Verified by the 911 tape.



Lowell H Turner said:


> As far as Zimmerman... got his (deleted) kicked...


 Yes, as he was walking back to his car.




Lowell H Turner said:


> As far as Zimmerman... shot the kid in the back as he was leaving "in `self defense`"


Actually, Z shot T in the chest when T was on top of him. As verified by a size 9mm bullet hole in front of T.

Lowell, if you are going to be all emotional over something make sure you got your facts straight.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Silent Mike said:


> he wasnt out to end the guy...he tried to give him CPR to save him, so obviously he didnt mean for the shot to be fatal...couldve and does happen to policeman...he wont go to jail on a murder charge...manslaughter at the most but hopefully he doesnt get anything...
> 
> abortion isnt murder...
> 
> we arent even close to that society....not condoning execution of petty theft, but i do condone defense which in this case was probably proactive as the shot was meant to disable not kill....he had a knife and a key to the house so he was coming back


Yep, the best defense is a good offense. Good one.


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

Silent Mike said:


> he wasnt out to end the guy...he tried to give him CPR to save him, so obviously he didnt mean for the shot to be fatal...couldve and does happen to policeman...he wont go to jail on a murder charge...manslaughter at the most but hopefully he doesnt get anything...
> 
> abortion isnt murder...
> 
> we arent even close to that society....not condoning execution of petty theft, but i do condone defense which in this case was probably proactive as the shot was meant to disable not kill....he had a knife and a key to the house so he was coming back


Regardless of whether or not the shot was meant to be fatal he should never have fired his weapon. That is one of the least optimal weapons (behind hand grenades, or RPG's) for appropriately disabling and detaining a suspected criminal.


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

samfishdyt said:


> Regardless of whether or not the shot was meant to be fatal he should never have fired his weapon. That is one of the least optimal weapons (behind hand grenades, or RPG's) for appropriately disabling and detaining a suspected criminal.


You shoot one guy with an RPG though I guarantee you have no more problems out of anyone else. Seems like a good way to send a message.


----------



## CATMAN447 (Jun 12, 2011)

It's an awfully high horse you sit on, MB


----------



## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

Workdog said:


> Actually...none. The dispatcher said "Are you following him now." Yes. "You don't need to be doing that."
> 
> Z was walking back to his car, and within 30 yards, when he was jumped by T. As verified by the scene of the incident.
> 
> ...


This was right on point. I am tired of hearing about this case. The Zimmerman trial is so big because of the race thing. Dont belive me? Not to long after the Zimmerman thing happend, 4 blackteens beat a white guy almost to death as he was walking home from the store because they were bored. Google it, it really happened. We didnt hear anything about it.Can you honelsty sit there and say this would have been swept under the rug like it was if the roles were reversed??? Then a couple weeks ago some white cops beat a black kid that was carrying his puppy cause they didnt like the way he was looking at them. You can google that too but you shouldnt have too because it was on every major news site for about a week. Still dont think race has anything to do with it? Notice how Zimmerman went from a white hispanic, what ever that is, back to just being hispanic? Drop the Zimmerman referneces when it comes to this case. It bears absolutely no resemblence to what happened here. Its a shame that it went from innocent until proven guilty to guilty until proven innocent. I place the blame for this on the majority of people with an internet connection becoming over night detectives.


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

imalt said:


> You shoot one guy with an RPG though I guarantee you have no more problems out of anyone else. Seems like a good way to send a message.


That's one way to look at it lol I wouldn't mess with an RPG owner.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Secnario:
> Neighbors daughter has an abortion. Shes a murderer right? She actually KILLED someone right? Is it ok to take her life? Whats the difference? Shes an actual murderer not a petty thief.
> 
> In some countries, she would be put to death. Adultery is also punishable by death. Do we want to be that society? You guys are condoning the killing of a petty thief. You are well on your way I'd say. Savages.


Still scratching my head, using both hands now.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

CATMAN447 said:


> It's an awfully high horse you sit on, MB


Hows that? Because I can't condone one person killing another? I don't condone a citizens imposed death penalty for petty theft? Must be a pretty low standard if that's to be seen as being above anyone. The guy was running away. I may sit on a high horse, but at least I won't shoot you in the back if you are running away from me. I'm also not sure why you keep singling me out. There are plenty of other people in this thread with a similar view. Sure the guy could have been a dirtbag. That still doesn't justify murder.


----------



## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

I'm my opinion, if you are a serial thief and a junkie... You deserve murder... He got what he had coming to him... I agree with those that said the shooter should have just left him in the woods and went home... An investigation and trial for this is a waste of resources... The shooter did society a favor


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> I'm my opinion, if you are a serial thief and a junkie... You deserve murder... He got what he had coming to him... I agree with those that said the shooter should have just left him in the woods and went home... An investigation and trial for this is a waste of resources... The shooter did society a favor


I 100% agree. There is no reason to waste tax payer resources on these people.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

lordofthepunks said:


> I'm my opinion, if you are a serial thief and a junkie... You deserve murder... He got what he had coming to him... I agree with those that said the shooter should have just left him in the woods and went home... An investigation and trial for this is a waste of resources... The shooter did society a favor


Yep...also with you 100%!


----------



## fishmounter (Jun 24, 2008)

This shooter was obviously trying to help sick, elderly people, who were being victimized by a low life piece of ****. How can anyone feel the criminal is a victim, after what he had been doing, is ludicrous. The cops can't always be everywhere, and handle every situation. Armed citizens are the only hope for a civil society. Period. This might just make other criminals like him think twice before robbing someone. They are obviously not afraid of the law.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Yep, threads like this get me closer and closer to CCW that's for sure!


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Yep, threads like this get me closer and closer to CCW that's for sure!


Exactly why I have mine...and millions more of law-abiding citizens every year!
Time to protect and rely on yourself, friends, and family! Let God sort out the rest!


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> Exactly why I have mine...and millions more of law-abiding citizens every year!
> Time to protect and rely on yourself, friends, and family! Let God sort out the rest!


Same here, well said.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

if our justice system made life in prison hell instead of like some boarding school he wouldnt do something to risk going back...really i cant see how so many of you justify being killed while running away. The shooter made a bad choice and is gonna face the music. Didnt you guys learn anything in your ccw class? I know i did.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

ostbucks98 said:


> if our justice system made life in prison hell instead of like some boarding school he wouldnt do something to risk going back...really i cant see how so many of you justify being killed while running away. The shooter made a bad choice and is gonna face the music. Didnt you guys learn anything in your ccw class? I know i did.
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Couldn't agree more with everything you just said.


----------



## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

The guy was a scumbag end of story and put himself in the position of being killed...just a sad deal for shooter and his family. But he made the choice.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Harbor Hunter (Aug 19, 2007)

Some have said that the shooter didn't mean to kill the scumbag,or just wound him.Laying in wait for someone then shooting him while he's running away from you isn't really going to sway a jury into believing you acted in self defense,or that you were trying to protect your home or family.I think the shooter is going to get charged with murder,and unfortunately he should be,a bullet doesn't have brains,it goes where it's aimed.I absolutely hate to see a guy's whole life thrown away because he did what he thought was the right thing to do,but shooting an unarmed man running away from you that posed no threat to anyone isn't going to get him off.


----------



## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Workdog, so AGAIN, being the "expert" on this case, WHAT exactly was Zimmerman "detaining "/ arresting" the kid FOR ? Basically, for being born black and to "pump up" Zimmerman`s EGO..."I` AM the "law" around here !" attitude. As said before, hopefully he ENJOYS PRISON ! He might as well have walked up to ANYONE on the street, tried his FALSE ARREST crap, got his (deleted) kicked, and then "HAD" to use his gun to save his EGO...yeah, he`s a "real" hero. Hopefully IF he walks, he moves and he starts "patrolling" the streets of YOUR neighborhood, OK? Am certain you will feel MUCH safer...


----------



## Guest (Jun 26, 2013)

Zimmerman can move in right next to me. I would be happy to have him as a neighbor.


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

tubuzz2 said:


> Zimmerman can move in right next to me. I would be happy to have him as a neighbor.


Me too. My in-laws live in a rougher part of town where robbery is a part of life. And everyone just turns a blind eye in fear of reporting anyone and being retaliated against. The bad guys have no fear of the police or the judicial system. If people start dropping them where they stand maybe they will think twice before robbing someone. When the police choose not to protect and serve it is up to you to protect yourself.

What this guy did hiding in the woods unfortunately was the wrong thing to do. I am sure in his mind he thought he was just going to detain the guy but got caught up in the moment. And unfortunately his life will probably be ruined because of his decision.


----------



## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

as far as im concerned, it'll take a lawyer like phoenix wright to get this guy out of what he did. he's toast unless the jury really supports his decision to hide and shoot.
and that thing about having zimmerman as your next door neighbor, well, it would probably be the worst thing to happen. lots of people are mad at that guy for obvious reasons. which means that your house might get filled up with lead if some one decides to do a drive-by or a huge gang of criminals with guns. some people just cant shoot so good, look at the amount of people killed/injured in crossfire from shootouts and murders.


----------



## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Lowell H Turner said:


> Workdog, so AGAIN, being the "expert" on this case, WHAT exactly was Zimmerman "detaining "/ arresting" the kid FOR ? Basically, for being born black and to "pump up" Zimmerman`s EGO..."I` AM the "law" around here !" attitude. As said before, hopefully he ENJOYS PRISON ! He might as well have walked up to ANYONE on the street, tried his FALSE ARREST crap, got his (deleted) kicked, and then "HAD" to use his gun to save his EGO...yeah, he`s a "real" hero. Hopefully IF he walks, he moves and he starts "patrolling" the streets of YOUR neighborhood, OK? Am certain you will feel MUCH safer...


Lowell, did Zimmerman pee in your cornflakes or something? What's up with your attitude? I never said I am the expert on this case, I've just read up on it...which you obviously have not! Nobody, anywhere, other than you, has said Z "detained" or "arrested" T nor anybody else for that matter. In fact, in court yesterday it came out that Z was offered, by the Sanford police, an expanded watch role including a uniform and a marked car, and he turned it down. Read up a little. Don't let the race hustlers lead you around by the nose.

Oh, by the way, the defense is handing the prosecutors their azz in this trial so far.


P.S. For any one that wants to be an "expert" in this case, go to this link and scroll down to the Zimmerman trial proceedings, Day 3, for the latest updates. Scroll further down to Trial Day 2 proceedings: http://legalinsurrection.com/ There are other sites too.... 

If you just want to get the Trayvon perspective go to ABCNBCCBSMSNBC...


----------



## Stars-n-Stripers (Nov 15, 2007)

imalt said:


> If people start dropping them where they stand maybe they will think twice before robbing someone. QUOTE]
> 
> Good Lord, I'm glad you're not out there with a badge and gun.


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

Stars-n-Stripers said:


> imalt said:
> 
> 
> > If people start dropping them where they stand maybe they will think twice before robbing someone. QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

imalt said:


> Stars-n-Stripers said:
> 
> 
> > If I was a cop I would just taser everyone. That would be much more fun. Those are my favorite cop episodes where people get tazed.
> ...


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> imalt said:
> 
> 
> > just gotta love the "zzzzt" and the following screams of the "hard ass" thst got the gaze.
> ...


----------



## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Workdog said:


> Lowell, did Zimmerman pee in your cornflakes or something? What's up with your attitude? I never said I am the expert on this case, I've just read up on it...which you obviously have not! Nobody, anywhere, other than you, has said Z "detained" or "arrested" T nor anybody else for that matter. In fact, in court yesterday it came out that Z was offered, by the Sanford police, an expanded watch role including a uniform and a marked car, and he turned it down. Read up a little. Don't let the race hustlers lead you around by the nose.
> 
> Oh, by the way, the defense is handing the prosecutors their azz in this trial so far.
> 
> ...



Well said Workdog, *WELL SAID*! 

As far as a some of the other comments on this thread, they might change their mind if they ever had the need to use a firearm in self defense of their self or their loved ones. Nuff said.


----------



## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

imalt said:


> jonnythfisherteen2 said:
> 
> 
> > My favorite one of all time actually was in norwood ohio on cops. Dude wouldn't get out of his GF's apartment. They tazed him and not only did he scream like a little girl but he also pissed his pants.
> ...


----------



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Yep, threads like this get me closer and closer to CCW that's for sure!


then you my friend have failed to understand CCW...

CCW is for protection from assault, not to shoot someone in the woods that just robbed someone..


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

ezbite said:


> then you my friend have failed to understand CCW...
> 
> CCW is for protection from assault, not to shoot someone in the woods that just robbed someone..


Oh no we agree here buddy even if you didnt understand my post. It's ok, it was a little cryptic. I could someday be the guy at the back door, with a key. Or doing doing something else some backyard vigilante decided he didn't approve of.  ever had to break into your own home? I already said im not the guy youd have to worry about shooting you in the back. Or from a bush. From my lazyboy? You betcha. I'm down with a mans home being his castle. I'm not down with this pretty much assassination. Make the police do their jobs. Get the guy on video if he's doing it all the time and he goes to jail. Theft is theft. There's no way you'd expect a community to put up with that. Go about it the right way please. Exhaust all your resources. Taking another person life should only be as a last resort.

Feel free to resume the chest thumping fellas.


----------



## CATMAN447 (Jun 12, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Feel free to resume the chest thumping fellas.


If only we could all be as enlightened... WOW.


----------



## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Workdog, believe what you wish, ZIMMERMAN had NO RIGHT to attempt to detain, restrain, or ANY other idiotic thing. I will again personally say I WOULD have LET him, and then LEGALLY sued him for EVERYTHING he owned, but see, I believe if you AIN`T a cop, you have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to DO SO, so "detain"" restrain" ME all you WANT; and forgive me if I immediately get the BEST lawyer money can BUY and STRIP you of ALL you have for illegally KIDNAPPING, OK? If you want the powers of LAW ENFORCEMENT, GO to school, and get HIRED. Otherwise, you are just an ORDINARY citizen, regardless of how enormous your EGO is...and you are JUST as CRIMINALLY LIABLE. (that is "why" mr Zimmerman your "hero" is on TRIAL, not for being a "hero"...) Write to him in prison...


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I'm glad we agree here buddy even if you didnt understand my post. It's ok, it was a little cryptic. I could someday be the guy at the back door, with a key. Or doing doing something else some backyard vigilante decided he didn't approve of.  ever had to break into your own home? I already said im not the guy youd have to worry about shooting you in the back. Or from a bush. From my lazyboy? You betcha. I'm down with a mans home being his castle. I'm not down with this pretty much assassination. Make the police do their jobs. Get the guy on video if he's doing it all the time and he goes to jail. Theft is theft. There's no way you'd expect a community to put up with that. Go about it the right way please. Exhaust all your resources. Taking another person life should only be as a last resort.
> 
> Feel free to resume the chest thumping fellas.


People feel like criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens....you have habitual thiefs, drunks, druggies, gangs, etc, etc....that steal from them and terrorize them all the time. How does a person have 47 DUI violations and crashes that cause personal and property damage...how does a neighborhood punk continue to have multiple assaults and break-ins....or a multiple child rapist gets off on technicalities...etc, etc, etc. 
People are fed up, pissed off, and angry....the dude got what he deserved.
This is the society we live in and some people are not going to continue to be victims.


----------



## CATMAN447 (Jun 12, 2011)

Intimidator said:


> People feel like criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens....you have habitual thiefs, drunks, druggies, gangs, etc, etc....that steal from them and terrorize them all the time. How does a person have 47 DUI violations and crashes that cause personal and property damage...how does a neighborhood punk continue to have multiple assaults and break-ins....or a multiple child rapist gets off on technicalities...etc, etc, etc.
> People are fed up, pissed off, and angry....the dude got what he deserved.
> This is the society we live in and some people are not going to continue to be victims.


+1

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> People feel like criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens....you have habitual thiefs, drunks, druggies, gangs, etc, etc....that steal from them and terrorize them all the time. How does a person have 47 DUI violations and crashes that cause personal and property damage...how does a neighborhood punk continue to have multiple assaults and break-ins....or a multiple child rapist gets off on technicalities...etc, etc, etc.
> People are fed up, pissed off, and angry....the dude got what he deserved.
> This is the society we live in and some people are not going to continue to be victims.


How many robberies until you are open to assassination? 1? 5? 3 strikes you're out? How many DUIs until its time to die? Are you going to require proof or accusations good enough?


----------



## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Intimidator said:


> People feel like criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens....you have habitual thiefs, drunks, druggies, gangs, etc, etc....that steal from them and terrorize them all the time. How does a person have 47 DUI violations and crashes that cause personal and property damage...how does a neighborhood punk continue to have multiple assaults and break-ins....or a multiple child rapist gets off on technicalities...etc, etc, etc.
> People are fed up, pissed off, and angry....the dude got what he deserved.
> This is the society we live in and some people are not going to continue to be victims.


this guy did not get what he "deserved"..maybe if he was attacking the shooter, or pointing a gun at the shooter, or threatening the shooters life...but he wasnt doing any of those things..people have every right to be pissed off, tired, and fed up..they DO NOT have the right to kill another person when theyre own life is NOT in danger...getit through your head man


----------



## Wow (May 17, 2010)

It's a case of vigilantism pure and simple. Cut and dried....Sure he's a lowlife...But as long as we have judges, juries and executioners, we needn't be out there takin' one for the team. 

A video camera would have made more sense.

Purely on the basis of public opinion, I see this guy doing little, if any, time.

As a side note:
CCW has nothing to do with this........It is, simply put.....legally being permitted to be prepared to defend yourself. -Not going all "Charles Bronson" on somebody.

--Tim


----------



## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> How many robberies until you are open to assassination? 1? 5? 3 strikes you're out? How many DUIs until its time to die? Are you going to require proof or accusations good enough?


that would be great!.......until someone accuses fred over there of robbing someones house, then fred doesnt have a chance before someone puts a bullet between his eyes...... then they find out charlie did it.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Maybe it's gonna take a few cases like this to wake up the legal system....if the "Peers" of "Charles Bronson" continue to judge him not guilty, then the habitual criminals may think twice about the crimes they are committing. Criminals are doing this crap now, because we as a society have no "backbone" or "sack" left to deal with them!
Most people IN EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD know who the trouble makers are...I seriously don't think Grandmas and Grandpas are going to be hiding behind trees shooting kids that piss on their flowers or "clocking" neighbors that are locked out of their houses.
These people knew the deceased, they were victimized over and over by his crimes, they were scared, pissed, and fed up with his Bull, and the lack of law-enforcement to punish his CRIMINAL acts...so they served out Neighborhood Justice on his "BUTT"! I bet they are all sleeping comfortably. That's also 1 less criminal my tax dollars are paying for to live a nice comfortable life, in jail or prison!


----------



## suprsailor (Jun 27, 2013)

Having served in the military for the past 20 years, I have served on numerous security details and stood countless armed security watches with numerous weapons protecting a lot of different types of people and property. We are taught what is called the deadly force triangle which essentally states you need three things before you can use deadly force "Opportunity, Capability and intent". Capability simply means he has the ability to inflict death or injury that may cause death or serious bodily injury upon you or others in the immediate vicinity. The thief had a knife, "Capability" established. The house was unoccupied and the thief never approched the shooter therefore "Opportunity" was never extablished. The deadly force triangle is broken, deadly force should not have been used. "Intent"- There was no intent by the thief to harm the shooter. 
Keep in mind, deadly force was not used only when he fired at the thief, it was used every time he pulled the trigger. Every round that came out of his weapon had the ability to kill - that equals deadly force. The shooter fired six shots - three warning shots and three at the thief. Where did the other five shots land? Warning shots are reckless and endanger the public for as far as a mile and a half away depending on the weapon used and where the shots were fired. They show poor judgement. 
Based on this, the man should go to jail. Do I personally agree with it...no, but I also don' believe you can shoot someone who is fleeing from a robbery in the back. It's just stuff. Stuff can be replaced. Spend $50 and get a trailcam and get the guy on video. Let the police do their job.

I've been on the other end of the gun before because a man thought I was trying to steal something off his property, when in fact all I was doing was delivering his new phone book. I'm glad he didn't decide to shoot the "fleeing" "thief" in the back. 

If the shooter wanted to "end the guy", the best thing hecould have done, was wait quietly inside the house for the guy and then put one round in his chest while inside the home. He hasn't endanged the public with warning shots and he's covered by the "Castle Defense"- case closed. 

As it sit's now though, he's probably going to jail. I wouldn't want to be on that jury.


----------



## JignPig Guide (Aug 3, 2007)

I think in a case such as this. Justice and the law may not equate. 

Here is another example: A man named Jason Wagner abducted, tortured, raped, and did unmentionable (for several days) things to a three year old girl in Lancaster, Ohio. He was caught. And the law sent him to prison. 
While in prison, *justice was done on him *by another inmate.


----------



## Workdog (Jan 10, 2007)

Lowell H Turner said:


> Workdog, believe what you wish, ZIMMERMAN had NO RIGHT to attempt to detain, restrain, or ANY other idiotic thing. I will again personally say I WOULD have LET him, and then LEGALLY sued him for EVERYTHING he owned, but see, I believe if you AIN`T a cop, you have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to DO SO, so "detain"" restrain" ME all you WANT; and forgive me if I immediately get the BEST lawyer money can BUY and STRIP you of ALL you have for illegally KIDNAPPING, OK? If you want the powers of LAW ENFORCEMENT, GO to school, and get HIRED. Otherwise, you are just an ORDINARY citizen, regardless of how enormous your EGO is...and you are JUST as CRIMINALLY LIABLE. (that is "why" mr Zimmerman your "hero" is on TRIAL, not for being a "hero"...) Write to him in prison...


Facts shall set you free Lowell. Get back on your blood pressure meds...I have a feeling you will need them at the end of this show trial. 

As far as this present case in Ohio, anyone with a CCW license can tell you it is not legal to shoot someone walking away from your house after stealing your stuff (maybe in Texas). I hope there are extenuating circumstances and the court lets him off. After all, he did save the taxpayers money, and rid the community of a low life habitual criminal loser. I for one would like to be on this jury...he would walk.


----------



## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

X2, Suprsailor. IMO, it would have been a really good place for a neighborhood beatdown, but then, society would have had to pay for his medical care. I guess as long as the legal system keeps going light on repeat offenders, we'll keep having these problems.


I do wish some here would stop intermingling references to the Zimmerman/Martin case. It kinda muddies the water


----------



## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

I Fish said:


> I do wish some here would stop intermingling references to the Zimmerman/Martin case. It kinda muddies the water


+1.........They should start their own thread and not hi-jack this one.


----------



## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Intimidator said:


> . Criminals are doing this crap now, because we as a society have no "backbone" or "sack" left to deal with them!


No it's what criminals do.....It has nothing to do with backbone or sack of society.


----------



## Shaggy (Oct 24, 2008)

JignPig Guide said:


> I think in a case such as this. Justice and the law may not equate.
> 
> Here is another example: A man named Jason Wagner abducted, tortured, raped, and did unmentionable (for several days) things to a three year old girl in Lancaster, Ohio. He was caught. And the law sent him to prison.
> While in prison, *justice was done on him *by another inmate.


That right there is a prime example of how screwed up our justice system is! A man who does something like that to a 3 year old girl...our justice system should have removed him from our gene pool. They didn't but society did. Not the same society as ours but still justice had to be delivered by his peers.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Snakecharmer said:


> No it's what criminals do.....It has nothing to do with backbone or sack of society.


No I meant that they know they can keep getting away with "petty" crimes since the states can't afford to house them and the legal system babies them anyway.
The criminals know that they'll get free healthcare, tv, 3 square meals a day, and just about anything else they desire....the No "Backbone" and No "Sack" people of our society, think all these people will be rehabilitated and be productive citizens, so we should treat all criminals nicely and be a compassionate society....WHAT ABOUT THE VICTIMS!
Criminals see all of us as "Easy Marks"....guess this one paid for that thought!
If this kind of stuff keeps happening, watch the crime rate drop!


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> that would be great!.......until someone accuses fred over there of robbing someones house, then fred doesnt have a chance before someone puts a bullet between his eyes...... then they find out charlie did it.


Ahh, the youngster gets it! Refreshing.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> No I meant that they know they can keep getting away with "petty" crimes since the states can't afford to house them and the legal system babies them anyway.
> The criminals know that they'll get free healthcare, tv, 3 square meals a day, and just about anything else they desire....the No "Backbone" and No "Sack" people of our society, think all these people will be rehabilitated and be productive citizens, so we should treat all criminals nicely and be a compassionate society....WHAT ABOUT THE VICTIMS!
> Criminals see all of us as "Easy Marks"....guess this one paid for that thought!
> If this kind of stuff keeps happening, watch the crime rate drop!


So is prison a cakewalk or not? One guy says its an easy way to execute someone, put em in general pop, you say you get everything you desire. Ever been to prison? People get free healthcare now, prison or not and I wouldn't call those "square meals".. You justifying this murder by making it sound like the alternative is being sent to a country club is.. Misguided. I'd suggest you start watching some Lockup-Raw on youtube. It's not as pretty a picture as you paint it.


----------



## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Workdog then say this right here and NOW- that you are FOR illegally kidnapping/ forcibly restraining and then KILLING anyone you WANT to on any public sidewalk, CORRECT? THAT is what it boils down to. Kinda like trying to beat a speeding passenger train at a crossing IGNORING the warning gates and lights, causing a derailment, then rushing back to "help" the injured and actually EXPECTING to be "rewarded" as a "HERO", CORRECT? EVEN if he "walks", in the following CIVIL trial he`s ALREADY ADMITTED to disregarding the dispatcher AND KILLING the kid. ARGUE THAT...be sure to write you "hero" in prison, OK? EITHER WAY, unless Florida retroactively "legalizes' shooting black kids on public sidewalks...


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> So is prison a cakewalk or not? One guy says its an easy way to execute someone, put em in general pop, you say you get everything you desire. Ever been to prison? People get free healthcare now, prison or not and I wouldn't call those "square meals".. You justifying this murder by making it sound like the alternative is being sent to a country club is.. Misguided. I'd suggest you start watching some Lockup-Raw on youtube. It's not as pretty a picture as you paint it.


I can speak for London Correctional since my cousin is one of the "higher ups"...there are maximum prisons for hardened criminals and country clubs for the ones that "can be rehabilitated"!


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> I can speak for London Correctional since my cousin is one of the "higher ups"...there are maximum prisons for hardened criminals and country clubs for the ones that "can be rehabilitated"!


Ok, from all accounts this guy was a "hardened" criminal, with an "extensive record". No country club for him right?

Any Christians in the group? Whats the book say about this?


----------



## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> So is prison a cakewalk or not? One guy says its an easy way to execute someone, put em in general pop, you say you get everything you desire. Ever been to prison? People get free healthcare now, prison or not and I wouldn't call those "square meals".. You justifying this murder by making it sound like the alternative is being sent to a country club is.. Misguided. I'd suggest you start watching some Lockup-Raw on youtube. It's not as pretty a picture as you paint it.


Watching some drummed up stuff for tv is a little different than real life. I am not saying prison is a cake walk. i am sure bad things happen in prison and it is by no means a country club. But the majority of these petty thieves just go to county lockups. Which are overcrowed and they are usually out before the arresting officer fills out the paperwork. An addict can easily steal 400 or 500 worth of stuff a day. If the only threat is a couple days in jail what is the reason not to do it. Now if you have to worry about going into someones home and getting a bullet put in you then maybe they will think about the consequences. I am not saying hiding in the bushes I am saying you are in your house and someone breaks in.


----------



## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Ok, from all accounts this guy was a "hardened" criminal, with an "extensive record". No country club for him right?
> 
> Any Christians in the group? Whats the book say about this?


Hardened are murderers, serial rapists, and serial killers.
I would say an "eye for an eye".... guess he pissed off the wrong person who stopped him from the next time.! You know the guy that shot him must have been pushed to his limit to have done that....worst case for the shooter will be a slap on the wrist for temporary insanity caused by bullying!


----------



## samfishdyt (Sep 15, 2010)

Although the man was suspected of other burglaries, (which I would say it iss safe to assume he did commit), he has never been convicted. He was charged with receiving stolen property and then it was dismissed. Again, Im not saying I dont believe he is a criminal, but some are making it seem this man has 5 convictions and two stints in prison. Yes he was a criminal by that presumption but to be a hardened repeat offender you at least need a prior conviction. Without that he is just a suspect, a dead suspect. Innocent until proven guilty by a court of law, NOT, presumed guilty and shot in the back by a fellow citizen. So many people have condoned and praised what the shooter did, because they dislike criminals. I can understand the dislike of criminals. Two people I hate are liars and thieves. However, why doesnt anyone dislike the shooter? After all he is a criminal. Not to mention the crime he committed is a considerable amount more severe. Two wrongs do not make a right.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> Hardened are murderers, serial rapists, and serial killers.
> I would say an "eye for an eye".... guess he pissed off the wrong person who stopped him from the next time.! You know the guy that shot him must have been pushed to his limit to have done that....worst case for the shooter will be a slap on the wrist for temporary insanity caused by bullying!


It wasn't even the guys house so no, I don't think that at all and I think you are being facetious.


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

RiverWader said:


> This happened about a mile from My house, this Guy is a notorious thief, he's on camera stealing from these people before.
> The Guy who shot Him is a very good man, loving Husband and Father it is sad that He might be facing Murder charges over this low life
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Any news on how it's going ? I worked in Athens Tuesday and it was all the talk. Hope the family is doing ok.


----------



## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

bobk said:


> Any news on how it's going ?



As this points out, the victim was hardly a hardened criminal:
_Blackburn said his office is not aware of handling any previous burglary charges against Rutter. The online records of the Athens County Common Pleas Court show no criminal cases against him.

County municipal court records show that a Keith A. Rutter, then of Millfield, whose age would now be 33, was charged twice with receiving stolen property in 2004, but those charges were dismissed._

The latest:
http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-40091-probe-of-glouster-shooting-gets-more-complex.html


----------



## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

If ever somebody needed an argument in favor of our current justice system, of innocent until proven guilty, they would need to look no further than some of the comments in this thread.


----------



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Ok, from all accounts this guy was a "hardened" criminal, with an "extensive record". No country club for him right?
> 
> Any Christians in the group? Whats the book say about this?


why not try reading the book for yourself, before getting this thread locked because of tempting someone to post their thoughts about religion and get this locked because of violation of TOS?


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

I Fish said:


> If ever somebody needed an argument in favor of our current justice system, of innocent until proven guilty, they would need to look no further than some of the comments in this thread.


Kinda what I was thinking. Along with a few folks may want to cleanup some posts cause it wouldn't take too much o establish motive based on a couple comments here... 

Bobk, who's family you wondering about? Quite a few family members affected here Id say








ATHENS  Keith Alan P.J. Rutter, 33, passed away on June 20, 2013. Born April 16, 1980, he was the son of Nannette Justus and the late Bryan Rutter.

Besides his mother, he is survived by his stepfather, Steve Justus; two children, Bryan and Ariel Rutter; his girlfriend of 20 years, Jessica Hart; brothers, Joshua and Steven Rutter; a sister, Tara Bing (Curtis); and several aunts, uncles, nieces and nephews.

Besides his father, he was preceded in death by Oris and Pauline Rutter, and Carolyn Carsey.

A private funeral service will be conducted at a later date.


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

ezbite said:


> not now and why not try reading the book before getting this thread locked because of TOS?


Why would you assume I haven't read it? I know what the book says. It says thou shalt not kill.


----------



## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I know what the book says. It says thou shalt not kill.


than why ask??m just to try to start another argument??


----------



## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

ezbite said:


> than why ask??m just to try to start another argument??


Because I can't believe what I'm reading. I hope guys keep that in mind. The argument has been made. They want to condone murder. I find that unacceptable. Hopefully my comments do someone some good down te line and they think twice about taking another persons life. This is NOT about self defense at all. As far as the thread being locked, the last time we had a thread like this, the Boston Marathon bomber thread, it only made it 63 posts before someone put an end to the backyard vigilantes. And it had nothing to do with TOS. Why this one has remained, I'm not quite sure.

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=227581&highlight=boston



> Enough already from the backyard vigilantes


:LOCKED:


I think the Athens County prosecutor said it best(Sam and Ifish a close second and third.)
http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-40074-grand-jury-to-hear-case-on-fatal-glouster-shooting.html



> "In the interest of public safety, I would recommend, at the very least, a charge of felonious manslaughter," he wrote. "However, I feel it would be more fitting to charge (the man) with murder. There is no Castle Doctrine or self-defense based on these facts. Allowing the suspect to go free at this time condones illegal behavior, encourages more activity like this, endangers the public and promotes lawlessness."
> 
> Blackburn said Saturday that if Rutter had been shot by a resident inside the house after breaking in, Ohio's so-called "Castle Doctrine," which protects a citizen's right to use deadly force in defense of his or her home, would have applied. In this case, however, it's wholly inappropriate, he said.
> 
> ...


----------



## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Thanks for the update I Fish


----------



## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I read this entire thread....not surprised at any of the comments - to be expected actually.

Based on the limited facts I have gathered.....I agree guy is going to prison case closed.
I'll say we don't have all the facts, but most of the pieces are now available and despite the deceased poor charactor and criminal history a defense doesn't exist under current law.

Now, my personal opinion on the matter is (again based on what I know) that the community (and world) is far better off without this man breathing. It would be very difficult being on that jury because I feel like the above, but the law would tell me to convict him.

The pictures of him with his children do nothing to alter my opinion their father did indeed deserve to be executed or locked up until death - which obviously wasn't going to happen with the justice system. 

I have no sympathy for the man at all and in my opinion he did indeed get what he had coming....you reap what you sow.

I feel sorry for the victims...the familes. Moreso for the shooter's family because like it or not this guy wasn't any kind of father to his children anyway.....drug addict, criminal theif and a poor role model. In many ways his children are likely better off with a deceased father. Go ahead and challenge that statement...I'll stand tall that any man doing the above is a lousy father!

Everybody is entitled to an opinion it's America! 

I live by laws and rules I don't agree with because well I'm civilized. I wouldn't have dreamed about shooting a fleeing guy in the back currently. But my opinion is that the guy deserved it and in perfect world we should have the right to put a bullet through people like this.....I believe even petty repeat criminals should be killed and I'm not afraid to say it here or anywhere else.

Just my $.02.


----------



## SConner (Mar 3, 2007)

After 100+ posts I believe everyone has had a fair chance to state their case on this debate and I see no signs of anyone being swayed in their beliefs. At this point I see no further good that can come of this.


----------

