# how old is he



## razu (Jun 19, 2006)

was having a discussion on this guys age and ways to tell age im guessing at least 7-8 years myself so what do ya think


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## Poohflinger (Feb 2, 2010)

Looking at the rack I would've said 1.5 year old. But seeing the body blows that theory to hell! Possibly 2.5-3??? Belly isn't saggin yet and no grey face to be 8 year old. My 2 cents.


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## Weatherby (May 27, 2005)

Agree with Pooh (did I just say that?) No belly sag, no gray. He doesn't really look "old". 

Maybe 4 at the most. Will be interested to see what others opinions are.


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## T-180 (Oct 18, 2005)

Short nose, no heavy head hair, no gray, no beer belly (like me) ....... not that old a deer. Extremely well fed , but my guess is 3.5 absolute tops, probably more like 2.5. He isn't all scarred up like an old deer either.
I shot a deer that a DNR guy aged at 3.5 that field dressed at 225 & had a small rack.


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

He's a 2.5 year old. A good Cull Deer.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2010)

I shot a old deer a few years ago and they are right. My deer had a gray face and the teeth were shot. Still was a nine point.


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## flypilot33 (Feb 9, 2006)

My guess is 2.5 years old... Just poor antler genetics in his blood.


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## Junebug2320 (Apr 23, 2010)

Agree with the genetics portion of comments.... would make great table fare......


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## powerstrokin73 (May 21, 2008)

I agree with everyone else on the genetics. i killed a small buck two weeks ago that had a 2 7/8 spike and a knurled over numb. but the body was large. here's some pics.








the deer in the front is mine and the one in the rear was a decent 8pt


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

At first I thought this was a joke, but now it seems everyone is serious. That's a 1.5 year old deer with a larger than normal body. Not all that uncommon. Some deer tend to put more towards body growth than antler growth. He'll balance things out when he gets older.


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## Cool Hunter (Dec 8, 2004)

I'm thinking 2.5 but I may be wrong. If its around a lot of grain it may be 1.5. He does have a dark tarsal for a 1.5 yo. 

Magis, 

I thought this was brought up before on here but I'm not sure. If a buck is a spike, will the rack develop into something larger or always have a smaller rack? I've heard some different variations and even looked at a few studies. What's your thoughts?


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Cool Hunter said:


> Magis,
> 
> I thought this was brought up before on here but I'm not sure. If a buck is a spike, will the rack develop into something larger or always have a smaller rack? I've heard some different variations and even looked at a few studies. What's your thoughts?


You really can't determine a bucks antler potential until he's 3.5 years old. Spikes are often bucks that were born late the year before. For the first few years they are putting a lot of energy towards body growth, so it takes a few years for them to show their full antler potential. There have been many documented cases of 1.5 year old spikes growing into B&C bucks by the time their 5.5 years old.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

M.Magis said:


> At first I thought this was a joke, but now it seems everyone is serious. That's a 1.5 year old deer with a larger than normal body. Not all that uncommon. Some deer tend to put more towards body growth than antler growth. He'll balance things out when he gets older.


Agreed! It would never have crossed my mind to suggest that this deer was 7-8 years old. My immediate guess was 1.5 years old and still is. Everyone has been saying it was a bumper crop of acorns this year. And the rut has not worn the bucks down yet so they will weight their most about right now with that changing here soon. That just looks to me like a well fed young buck. As noted his nose looks somewhat shorter like that of a younger deer and his neck is not real developed.


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## Ga. transplant (Oct 13, 2010)

no more than 3, no sway back or sagging belly. cant tell from the picture but it looks like he has a third antler coming out of his forehead or am I seeing things. definetly a cull deer.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Ga. transplant said:


> definetly a cull deer.


No such thing. That's term created by hunting ranches for advertising. Apparently a lot of people fall for it.


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## Ga. transplant (Oct 13, 2010)

M.Magis said:


> No such thing. That's term created by hunting ranches for advertising. Apparently a lot of people fall for it.


what are you talking about??
A cull, by definition, is something that is considered inferior or inadequate &#8212; not as good as the rest. As such, the topic of cull bucks comes about when ranch managers and hunters want to know which bucks should be culled to improve herd quality.

in case you need a definition:
cull (kl)
tr.v. culled, cull·ing, culls 
1. To pick out from others; select.
2. To gather; collect.
3. To remove rejected members or parts from (a herd, for example).


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

What I mean is that it's impossible to improve antler genetics in a wild herd by culling "inferior" deer. Cull is a term taken from cattle ranching, where cattlemen are working with closed herds and EPDs of the dam and sire are both known. That can't happen in a wild deer herd. Many, many studies have been done and they all come to that same conclusion. Hunting outfitters like to say they're "culling" 150" 8 pointers to make people think that their "good" deer must be huge. 
That and the fact that deer is only 18 months old and he's certainly not a "cull" deer.


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## kprice (May 23, 2009)

2.5 at most


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## razu (Jun 19, 2006)

guess i am way off he just looks so different than the others i have on camera i will be eating crow on this one i will try and get pics of some of the other deer in these woods over the weekend lotta good input on here wasnt expecting all that thanks


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## Ga. transplant (Oct 13, 2010)

M.Magis said:


> What I mean is that it's impossible to improve antler genetics in a wild herd by culling "inferior" deer. Cull is a term taken from cattle ranching, where cattlemen are working with closed herds and EPDs of the dam and sire are both known. That can't happen in a wild deer herd. Many, many studies have been done and they all come to that same conclusion. Hunting outfitters like to say they're "culling" 150" 8 pointers to make people think that their "good" deer must be huge.
> That and the fact that deer is only 18 months old and he's certainly not a "cull" deer.


how is it impossible?? you take the deer that has no chance to amount into a "trophy" size deer and take it out to stop the breeding which would eliminate it passing on of it jeans and allowing other "trophy" deer to spread theirs. you can look at that deer and know even as you think at 18months is not going to amount to anything. something is obviously wrong with it. looks like it has a third horn coming from his forhead on the right side and the left looks like it is spiked. ie bad ginetics. cull deer


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

You just showed your hand in this conversation. If you believe half of what you just said then it's pointless for me to continue this discussion.


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## Ga. transplant (Oct 13, 2010)

M.Magis said:


> You just showed your hand in this conversation. If you believe half of what you just said then it's pointless for me to continue this discussion.


please know im not trying to argue with you. it may have been from an injury, I may be wrong..(lord knows I am quite a bit) but I believe that deer to be more than 18 months is why im saying its both bad genetics and posible injury which the spike on one side usually means. he may end up to be a monster but if I had to make a judement call in the stand I would say cull him.just my opinion


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Here&#8217;s what I&#8217;m getting at, perhaps I word thing poorly. Even if that deer did have poor antler genetics (he doesn&#8217;t), it still does no good to remove him. Antlers genetics don&#8217;t only come from the buck, but also from the doe. Some people think most of the influence comes from the doe, but I don&#8217;t believe it can actually be proven. Some genetic traits can also come from further down the family tree and not just the parents. So without knowing the family tree of all the deer in an area, culling makes no sense. It can only work in a closed herd.


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## Hoss5355 (Apr 9, 2004)

I think that what MMagis is saying, that even by killing this buck, the genetics are in place, and will continue to be there regardless of this buck. Without it being a fenced area, it will always have those genetics in that "herd"

Now, by killing it, you are taking him out of the gene pool, but there is still a lot of that gene pool there, id indeed there was a screwed up gene.

Remember you are in Stark County also. I don't know exactly where you are at, but having hunted there for over 20 years, there is a lot of food sources for deer to get big in a hurry. 

I would agree that it is a 1.5 year old deer that has been putting the feed bag on. He has great potential in my eyes...


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## Bluewalleye (Jun 1, 2009)

By looking at the size of his neck, Im guessing he is 1.5 and was born early last year. Just big for his age. He really shows no aging at all. Im in no way an expert though. But he has no muscle tone in his hind quarters as well. A buddy of mine harvested a 7 year old deer 2 years ago and you would never mistake it for this size of a deer. Its head and neck were massive. It even had bad arthritis in its knees on its front hooves. The buck field dressed at 260 lbs. So live weight is was probably slightly above 300 lbs. It was a moose. And it scored over 140 inches and had amazing mass to it. Also had a lot of gray on its face..........


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## nicklesman (Jun 29, 2006)

Just curious... How do you know it had arthritis in its knees? I have never seen this before. Did it have no muscle or ligament left?


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Ga. transplant said:


> how is it impossible?? you take the deer that has no chance to amount into a "trophy" size deer and take it out to stop the breeding which would eliminate it passing on of it jeans and allowing other "trophy" deer to spread theirs. you can look at that deer and know even as you think at 18months is not going to amount to anything. something is obviously wrong with it. looks like it has a third horn coming from his forhead on the right side and the left looks like it is spiked. ie bad ginetics. cull deer


Far more credit needs to go to the doe for the genetics than you think. To shoot bucks with small antlers really won't solve the "cull" goal.Many poeple seem to forget that the doe is a large part of the genetics as well. That deer could grow to be a monster in a few years. It's way too early to poke a hole in it for the sake of "culling". Now if someone wants some meat to eat ...blast away.


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## firstflight111 (May 22, 2008)

Poohflinger said:


> Looking at the rack I would've said 1.5 year old. But seeing the body blows that theory to hell! Possibly 2.5-3??? Belly isn't saggin yet and no grey face to be 8 year old. My 2 cents.


that what i say too


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## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

That 3rd spike growing out could be a clue this buck has some interesting non-typical potential as he matures.


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## Bluewalleye (Jun 1, 2009)

nicklesman said:


> Just curious... How do you know it had arthritis in its knees? I have never seen this before. Did it have no muscle or ligament left?


well like I said Im no expert. But its front knee's were much larger then normal..
Like a person with arthritis in there hands. There knuckles swell up. Thats what the deer had in his front knee's. And my buddy said the deer tried to run with a doe, but couldnt. It just ran for like a second or 2 and just stopped. And it had a limp to his front legs. 
Now Im just speculating that it was arthritis. That is just what we thought it was. It was an old deer.


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

The only way to know for sure how old that Buck is, is to have it's lower jaw removed and have a Biologist "age" it by examining the teeth. So, unless that is done, we will never know for sure!


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## Double J (Jan 7, 2009)

razu said:


> guess i am way off he just looks so different than the others i have on camera i will be eating crow on this one i will try and get pics of some of the other deer in these woods over the weekend lotta good input on here wasnt expecting all that thanks


one can only guess at the age without examining the teeth.given his body structure probably 1.5 year old.there arent many 7 & 8 year old deer running in the wild.an 8 year old is a very old deer.I agree that this deer has potential to one day develop into a 'shooter'.


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## Double J (Jan 7, 2009)

Jigging Jim said:


> The only way to know for sure how old that Buck is, is to have it's lower jaw removed and have a Biologist "age" it by examining the teeth. So, unless that is done, we will never know for sure!


Sorry man....I should have read the entire post before responding,oops.


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## Jigging Jim (Apr 3, 2010)

Double J said:


> Sorry man....I should have read the entire post before responding,oops.


For that, I have penalized you one Venison Tenderloin!


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

Examining the teeth just gives a more educated guess. It's still just a guess. There's no sure fire way without an ear tag at birth.


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