# The solution thread



## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

You guys are doing a terrific job identifying problems and collecting data. Now lets put all the parts together and suggest some possible actions to take. Lets use this thread for recommendations that we can take to the ODNR meetings in a few months.

Someone asked about the state putting a bounty on yotes.

Lets look at it from a different perspective and offer our local outdoor stores a chance to profit.

Lets say Remington offers a program "Buy a new .223 at this store and bring in your coyotes for an instant $10.00 rebate"

How about the ammo manufactures... "bring in yote and get $5.00 off your next box of ammo"

Do we have anybody with connections to Dick's, Gander, Fin-Feather-Fur, Kames, Bass Pro, Cabelas... just to mention a few.

Maybe a moderator can sticky this one for us..."PLEASE"


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Bypass Gander and I'll give anyone an instant $15 rebate who drops one off at my house.
I believe a coyote pelt is worth about $30-$40 these days.


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

Have one of those stores sponsor a hunt. Have the Ohio DNR trap, tag, and release that coyote. That tag is then worth what the sponsor puts up for the hunt. All the ODNR needs to do is give a general location of that vote...say SE Ohio and let the hunters start shooting yotes for that tag.

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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

i cant wait to see all these "shot" coyotes

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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

Bubbagon said:


> Bypass Gander and I'll give anyone an instant $15 rebate who drops one off at my house.
> I believe a coyote pelt is worth about $30-$40 these days.


instant rebate on what? i think my bro was looking at a much larger picture. get ammo, outdoor stores, etc. involved in the yote issue.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Instant rebate on stupidity. And while you're turning in coyote pelts for $5, why doesn't everyone go ahead and bring all their 20 dollar bills over, and I'll give everyone a crisp 5 dollar bill in return.

He also talked about the State paying a bounty for coyotes.
And then monkeys will fly out of my butt.

How old are you guys if you don't mind me asking?


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## hopintocash2 (Aug 14, 2011)

Bubbagon said:


> Instant rebate on stupidity. And while you're turning in coyote pelts for $5, why doesn't everyone go ahead and bring all their 20 dollar bills over, and I'll give everyone a crisp 5 dollar bill in return.
> 
> He also talked about the State paying a bounty for coyotes.
> And then monkeys will fly out of my butt.
> ...


man, you have issues, get over youself, your not gawds gift to the hunting world. why wouldn't the state pay bounty for yotes? has the state ever paid bounty for nuisance animals in the past? use your search engine, it's better than mine. 

old enough to know


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## ldrjay (Apr 2, 2009)

Bubba your on to something there! Lets also encourage them to bring ***** mink beaver and otters for a rebate too. Ill come by n help for part of your profits. Lol if you guys want to kill yotes ill give you $10 per yote. Just bring them to me. 5 n ill come get them

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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Bubbagon said:


> Bypass Gander and I'll give anyone an instant $15 rebate who drops one off at my house.
> I believe a coyote pelt is worth about $30-$40 these days.


good point.... According to Trapping Today...(Feb 2013 Auction)
Coyotes sold exceptionally well with Italy, Canada and China competing aggressively for all sections. Premiums were paid throughout for heavier, better quality Westerns, which *averaged $93.98* with the Top Lot sold for $1,400.00.


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## ldrjay (Apr 2, 2009)

Not a bad deal for ten bucks lol come bring me pelts!

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## Snook (Aug 19, 2008)

And all this time I've let them lay. But then again I don't think their worth all that much with a baseball sized hole in em'.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Snook said:


> And all this time I've let them lay. But then again I don't think their worth all that much with a baseball sized hole in em'.


Got to work on your head shot!


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

its a nice thought..but I don't think the state would ever pay for coyote kills.....after all...the state is looking out for the state..(its crops)....coyotes kill deer.....deer kill the crops....if anything the state would have no problem with coyotes killing deer.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Coyote Hunters Society? Start it up, get organized. Get some shirts made up, a "pro staff" and shop for sponsors, or just get together and do your thing. I'd join


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

I have not even found places to give away a dead coyote without skinning it first. They are a stinky pain to skin.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Some of you trolls make me sick. I am done here. This is an issue that needs addressed and apparently this is not the place to do it. I did not say anything about leaving the pelts at gander. I thought maybe we could build enthusiasm to take out what many are calling a detriment to the deer population. Some of you just not mature enough to handle it. SAD

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## Tritonman (Jul 4, 2004)

Our fur buyer does not even want a yote on his counter. They have to be shampooed several times to become bearable. But I say let those dogs have the lead death. If you do want to take the time to put it on a stretcher and tan it. Go for it. Set up a table at the flea market and sell them for $60. I'll buy another. Snares work great and it's kinda cool to see that dog on a leash.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Bubbagon said:


> Bypass Gander and I'll give anyone an instant $15 rebate who drops one off at my house.
> I believe a coyote pelt is worth about $30-$40 these days.


Nearly 200 replies and 3 threads later and your still trolling around. Boy that shocks me. Maybe I should start keeping statistics from the point you called me stupid and was bowing out because of my ignorance.

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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Tritonman said:


> Our fur buyer does not even want a yote on his counter. They have to be shampooed several times to become bearable. But I say let those dogs have the lead death. If you do want to take the time to put it on a stretcher and tan it. Go for it. Set up a table at the flea market and sell them for $60. I'll buy another. Snares work great and it's kinda cool to see that dog on a leash.


Do you think snares are more productive than foot holds?


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Honestly, about 10 years ago, every gun shop was selling coyote guns, e callers, full camo suits... you name it, because coyotes were the new "IT" animal to hunt. Predator magazines started showing up everywhere. The hunting channels started loading their line ups with predator shows. It was the ultimate hunt! Now, a quick glance through the bargain hunter, and you'll find a dozen or so coyote rifles for next to nothing. People realized the amount of time and work it takes to kill an animal that you really don't want to get close to after you've killed it, and many lost interest. Can't eat it. Too much work to get a pelt ready to sell. And even then, the pelt needs to be almost perfect for it to be worth anything. Until the deer population is down to 1970's level, or coyotes start picking off kids at the bus stop, the state isn't going to pony up any money for them to be killed. Now, the organized hunts do happen in the west, and are very successful, but you're really dealing with a whole different animal considering the amount of public land, flat land, open landand a much better daylight opportunity for kills.

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## Tritonman (Jul 4, 2004)

Yes. Snares are a lot easier to place and a whole lot easier to maintain. Pans freeze with this crazy weather we have and need daily attention. Less human scent with snares. Butchered deer carcasses that have marinated for a couple weeks will produce. Finding a dead deer in the woods can be a gold mine. Keeping your distance and hanging 4 or 5 snares on the trails going in is higher percentage.


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## Tritonman (Jul 4, 2004)

Didn't the state have a bounty on them years ago.


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## CasualFisherman (May 21, 2004)

bobk said:


> Do you think snares are more productive than foot holds?


This time of year for sure. But it does depend on your land and features. Fence crossings or field corners with defined trails are easy pickings for even a novice trapper. Leg holds are much more difficult to be successful with but the experienced trappers make it look easy. I have no problem getting visits to my sets but successful catches are harder than it looks. Snares are pretty darn easy and successful right from the start.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Thanks for the info guys. I used to trap years ago but never yotes. My land is mostly hills and no fence rows. If any of you guys are close to hocking county and want to help get rid of some yotes let me know. I have 125 acres to spank some on and wouldn't pass up the help. 


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

While killing coyotes is a good thing it is not the answer. For anyone to think it is must be using a short sighted point of view. Also, you must not know much about coyotes. 

Hunter education is the best policy at this point. There needs to be a strong voice for conservation to counter the propaganda of the DOW.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Tritonman said:


> Didn't the state have a bounty on them years ago.


Yes. 

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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

Is your name "hop into cash" with misplaced spaces, or more like "hoping to cash" but with some twang in there? Nah, nevermind, I don't want to know.


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## SeA nYmPhO (Mar 25, 2008)

I have a group of buddies that have coyote dogs. Every Sunday after gun season we go. If anyone on here has a large enough piece of land and want some coyotes killed let me know. 

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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

crittergitter said:


> While killing coyotes is a good thing it is not the answer. For anyone to think it is must be using a short sighted point of view. Also, you must not know much about coyotes


I agree with this observation. As a fairly dedicated coyote caller I have done a good amount of reading on their biology and habits. From what I gather, and my experience, it is my OPINION, which may be wrong, that hunting them is not effective control. The more hunters calling, the smarter they get and the harder they are to kill.

The two most effective means are:

Trapping
Hunting with dogs

Then there is the issue of the theory that when a population is driven down, females bear larger litters. This is something that has been studied a fair amount I guess.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

hopin to cash said:


> Nearly 200 replies and 3 threads later and your still trolling around. Boy that shocks me.


LOL!! Well I can only post when I can post.
And you guys keep raising the level of....well.....it's not intelligence.

While I admire your enthusiasm for the perceived issue, your solutions are a bit naive at best. They may seem like good ideas in your mind, but the reality is quite different.

Big decisions on the deer herd get made based on the impact to a lot more groups than just the hunters. BIG money groups. 
If you go into some ODNR meeting, spouting off about the state buying coyote pelts, or forcing private land owners to open up their land for public hunting, and do so as if you're representing this group of sportsmen....well, that would be bad and embarrassing for the rest of us.

THAT'S why I keep chiming in. You seem willing to appoint yourself as some type of representative or rally cry leader for the group, and that's rather disheartening. 
If I need a group to speak for me, I'll choose one that has a representative that has some common sense ideas with a balanced solution that addresses all parties.
Your ideas are not indicative of that. IF there is a genuine problem, your ideas would get laughed out of the room by experts who actually have sound ideas, based on science, around management practices.


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## SeanStone (Sep 8, 2010)

Bubba... you seem to have quite the following. The last three threads I have read you've been pointed out. Making friends I see.... Lol. 

There are a handful of people on here (OGF) whom are constantly targeted no matter what they say even if they are sharing opinions or facts. .....Mmagis, lordofthepunks, fallen513...etc. People just love to argue with them for some reason, and I think you are slowly making your way into that crowd. I mean no disrespect by this, in fact I very much enjoy reading witty responses to the "attacks." It's like Maury, Jerry Springer, judge judy etc.. for the outdoorsman. 

I guess I just wanted to say thanks for the responses, it keeps me entertained throughout the day. 

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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

its one thing to disagree and have a different opinion. the line is drawn when someone takes offense and goes on the attack. i dont know why so many people on this forum just cant have a different opinion, right or wrong without belittlement and or some holier than thow approach.

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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

You're right, Sean. I should probably learn to just roll my eyes and move along on some things.
I don't know why I think that logic and facts and stuff would have a place in some of these discussions.
I should probably stick to which kayak is "best" and let the deer management experts handle this type of thing.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Bubbagon said:


> You're right, Sean. I should probably learn to just roll my eyes and move along on some things.
> I don't know why I think that logic and facts and stuff would have a place in some of these discussions.
> I should probably stick to which kayak is "best" and let the deer management experts handle this type of thing.


I got out of Sean's reply to you, that it would be better for me to take Springer, judge Judy and Maury to the ODNR's meetings instead of a bunch of hunters who feel the deer numbers are down enough that it is a very negative impact on our states reputation as a top noch destination.

I didn't bring up the "BIG MONEY" thing because I thought you were basing and backing the state's ODNR's deer herd decisions as a non-biased party. Now your saying there decisions to kill more deer are driven by other aspects than just hunter satisfaction and proper herd management?


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

insurance companies based here in ohio have lots of money.

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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

hopin to cash said:


> Now your saying there decisions to kill more deer are driven by other aspects than just hunter satisfaction and proper herd management?


It has never been in question or hidden, that the deer management program in Ohio takes into account all vested interests, not just hunters.

ODNR has the very difficult task of trying to find middle ground between groups that want lots of deer to kill, groups that want no deer, groups that want no deer killed, groups that want every deer killed for eating their flowers, etc, etc, etc.

There are at least 3 huge financial considerations.

Sportsman dollars spent hunting deer
Financial loss in agriculture
Financial and life loss to automobile deer crashes

The job of trying to please each and all is not a job I would want to have. Not sure you could win that one. I guess the best case scenario is that you have all three groups at least a little mad at you for not fully meeting their desires.


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## ML1187 (Mar 13, 2012)

Bubba it is true though that you are the man when it comes to which Kayak is best threads.... LOL. Thanks for that. It was a good one.


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## SeanStone (Sep 8, 2010)

hopin to cash said:


> I got out of Sean's reply to you, that it would be better for me to take Springer, judge Judy and Maury to the ODNR's meetings instead of a bunch of hunters who feel the deer numbers are down enough that it is a very negative impact on our states reputation as a top noch destination.


Haha, that would make for an interesting evening i'm sure. Let me be a little more useful on the topic at hand. 

Here's something that some of you may find usefull....my undergrad thesis on deer population within Oxford, Ohio. I was going to get the paper published, but I guess it wasn't what people wanted to hear at the time. Its rather long, at nearly 30 pages and filled with rather complicated formulas and GIS stuff, but there are stats, history, etc of the deer heard past and present. I feel that someone will enjoy reading it.

There are a few cool gis maps if anyone is into that aspect, the resolution has been degraded because of ogf's maximum file size limit. If anyone wants to see actual maps, or images let me know. A PM would be best.


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## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

I do remember a bounty on Fox but not coyote back around 1972ish. $5.00 for the feet of the animal. Had to take them to the Sheriff office they would pay out of petty cash. I think they also had a bounty on Crow for some reason.


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## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

Lundy said:


> It has never been in question or hidden, that the deer management program in Ohio takes into account all vested interests, not just hunters.
> 
> ODNR has the very difficult task of trying to find middle ground between groups that want lots of deer to kill, groups that want no deer, groups that want no deer killed, groups that want every deer killed for eating their flowers, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


i couldnt agree more with all of these statements I've said it before and ill say it again i dont envy the ODNR they have all kinds of groups ticked at them and all about different things. As for the whole litter replacement thing, it could be true but what is also true is that our ancestors eradicated wolves and coyotes and it stuck for 100 years. They also did it with muzzleloaders we just need to get organized. I like the bounty idea, if you tell ******** they can kill something for a 20 dollar bill, they are all over it. However, you can forget about the ODNR doing it so i think it would have to be a private entity. Ideas like the coyote drives i see on here now and again are great and they sure sound like fun to me.


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## CasualFisherman (May 21, 2004)

crittergitter said:


> While killing coyotes is a good thing it is not the answer. For anyone to think it is must be using a short sighted point of view. Also, you must not know much about coyotes.
> 
> Hunter education is the best policy at this point. There needs to be a strong voice for conservation to counter the propaganda of the DOW.


Predator control is an important piece of any management plan. Do the math, fawn mortality impacts populations more than hunter harvests. If your goal is more deer, Harvesting coyotes will help. Trapping of course is the most efficient means.


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Lundy said:


> It has never been in question or hidden, that the deer management program in Ohio takes into account all vested interests, not just hunters.
> 
> ODNR has the very difficult task of trying to find middle ground between groups that want lots of deer to kill, groups that want no deer, groups that want no deer killed, groups that want every deer killed for eating their flowers, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


As usual, (not always, lol) I agree with Lundy.

In the end, we have several very passionate, (and very vocal and opinionated) members that are just trying to make a difference.

I would encourage everyone to remember that in nature and business, conflict, if managed properly drives change and the most drastic ecological and business growth opportunities arise from conflict.

Conflict has a very broad definition. It means more than fighting and arguing. It does not have to be negative.

You don't have to be friends here, just keep it from becoming too personal. This thread, while getting slightly off track obviously has people thinking and talking. And that in the end is not usually a bad thing!

Thanks for everyone's passion. Let's keep it focused!


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

CasualFisherman said:


> Predator control is an important piece of any management plan. Do the math, fawn mortality impacts populations more than hunter harvests. If your goal is more deer, Harvesting coyotes will help. Trapping of course is the most efficient means.


I can't believe for one second that coyotes killed 219,000+ deer last year....

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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

Bad Bub said:


> I can't believe for one second that coyotes killed 219,000+ deer last year....
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


does your arm get tired or are you using an electric mixer? 


here is a simple idea. launch a coyote tournament with a buy in of $100 for a two man team. set the tourny to run from march 1st to june 1st. the team that brings in the most coyote skulls wins 70% of the pot. whoever checks in a coyote will be placed in a drawing for the other 30%. make the check-in site somewhere in columbus and allow teams to signup throughout the tourny.

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## jray (Jan 20, 2006)

bingo id say thats about the best idea ive heard so far


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

see this guy took on a train and lost.

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## privateer (Apr 26, 2012)

You can find fur prices in Ohio located here http://www.ohiostatetrapper.org/auction.html

Disappointing to see such low prices for everything. Last i heard most of our furs are going to Russia and other former eastern block countries where the wearing of fur is still cool. Too bad we can't use all of our available resources.

BTW did you guys see the woman in Ohio busted for trying to hire a someone to make a hit on a random kid wearing fur. It was to be her "statement" about the equality of animals and humans. Are there still cannibals anywhere in the world? If so, perhaps her penalty should be that we treat her equal to animals and send her there for dinner...
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/22/justice/ohio-anti-fur-plot-arrest/


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Thank you Mad-Eye Moody... It means a lot to have your support on here, you are respected and it shows.


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## hopin to cash (Sep 14, 2010)

Guys please continue the hard work...

I will be taking a rest so the sarcasm and non-productive stay out.

"Enough" has been locked but please take a listen to the interview last posted there. I think it touches base on what is coming for Ohio's deer hunting. We have already watched restaurants, gas station, bars, campgrounds and even hotels close in some old prime hunting areas.

Again I emphasize that I am not a big Nugent fan but you can not deny the validity of the remarks being made in the interview.

Public lands hunting is about to die in OHIO and all of us that don't own large posted private hunting areas will suffer.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

hopin to cash said:


> Guys please continue the hard work...
> 
> I will be taking a rest so the sarcasm and non-productive stay out.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear you're giving it a rest.....


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