# tiny craw and smallies



## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

got 3 smallies to yak today, 1 in it.
My rebel tiny craw attracted them, but couldn't hook them? The trebles are pretty small, 8 or 10, I don't think smaller. Also, the rear treble would hook itself in the hole between the claws, making the the craw's action change, as well as almost unhookable.
Should I be using a a craw w/bigger hooks? Also, lots of snags at this hole, what will give same craw action, w/weedless hooks?
I've not used tubes, might be time to add them to arsenal.
Thanks for any input.
Jeff


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

Hey Jeff, I fished yesterday on the lmr and did not get a hit. So at least you got some action. You can replace the treble with a larger one with out hurting the action to much. Weedless hooks might work but they seem to reduce hook up when fish are less aggresive on the bite imo. I would try the tubes for sure they seem to bring alot of fish and can be rigged weedless.  I think the key with tubes is using just enough weight to get you to the bottom. May lose a few trying to figure it out though. But I am not real familar with these baits as I mostly fly fish. just what I have read. Where in the river were the fish holding? (not your spot but in the water itself, deeper pools etc.) I fished the tailouts along drop off's and deep cuts with helgramite patterns and streamers but to no avail. I lost my stream thermomoter so I did not get a river temp but that water was cold. Thanks S


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Hey sevenx,
Thanks for the tips, was fishing long pool, few feet deep max, just off bank outside corner, tree had washed out of bank, three main trunks in water parallel w/bank, hung up a lot, tried clouser (BPS, was able to cast pretty far w/ul rig, no hits though)
I'm being told to fish eddies just below riffles/fast water, I'm not scientific about the EFLMR, or LMR, just cast likely looking spots.
And then just cast, when the likely spots don't produce 
I fish from private property on the EFLMR, I'm not sure how that works from an on the water vs in the water viewpoint, my wife works for Teen Challenge, so I have access to the EF there. Plus I've been doing volunteer work there since '91, so they know me  
We ought to hook up sometime, I've got an old cheapo fly rod, 10 year old floating line, should be interesting! I used to use it to catch bluegill and LM bass back in the day.
You bring the pontoon, I'll bring the yak.
Jeff


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

thanks jeff, I have been doing some reading and I think the winter fish key on deep water with boulders or other structure like trees or bridge pylings (sp) so thats what I am going to look for next time out. Maybe this weekend. Ill keep you posted. S


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

sevenx,
I've been told over and over, they're going deep for the winter, find deeper pools, where current meets rocks, trees, pilings, channels and drop offs, at point that fish can take some refuge from current, yet have access to any bait that might come by as the current drops it off.
I'm waiting for some sales numbers to post, so I can pick up a sonar, not just for "fish finding" but to ID these holes. I've never used a sonar, and know it'd make a big difference. Also know, you and I can catch fish without them!
I think you're more of a purist about this than I, being an artificial fly fisherman.
Sonar would help w/mapping the river, take some of the guess work out of it.
Or, do more wading than floating, and w/wading staff, ID the deeper holes.
I've been checking out some lunar tables, ??? moon has some effect on wildlife, including fish. Check this out, what do you think?:

http://oh.lake-link.com/anglers/moontimes/index.cfm?

Was talking to guy on client site today, says full moon, couple days either side is key time to fish, these charts also show new moon as having same effect to lesser degree, there are other variables obviously, barometer rising or falling, temperature of water and air, weather systems, water quality, rising or falling.
Rivers are "living". Always changing, makes it a challenge, but frustrating at the same time!
Makes the ol' reliable farm pond nice once and a while ! 
If you go out this weekend, much success!
I'm planning to head out Sat. Morning, torn between what I've heard about Paint Creek spillway and creek below, Aberdeen wwd, Meldahl, and staying close to home and doing the EFLMR or LMR period. I got skunked on LMR Sat. myself, from Newtown up to the YMCA rd. off Roundbottom and back down.
NOT A BITE.
Doesn't mean they're not there. Just not located.
Have a good night, nice smallie on an 8' fly rod, would be a nice fight!
Jeff


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

The treble hooks on the Tiny wee craw are #10....i replace mine every year as they are fine wire and bending them back into shape after lots of fish, they tend to get weak.
If your having issues with the back treble catching up on the line when casting far..you can remove it and step up to a size #8 on the front. These lures are classified as ultra-light lures, they are 1/10 oz. I only use the short bill shallow divers. If you put too big a treble on them they will not have the good vibration wobble they have with the small #10 trebles. You can however if your lucky find a nice heavier wire #10 to replace the stock hooks. I just stick with the Mustad ones, but thats just me.
In streams where there is a lot of crayfish, these lures are very hard to beat, i normally carry many of them for the shallow water sections like riffles and runs, but take tubes for pitching in deep holes and around snags.

Ive caught many big smallies on those little lures and they are one of my favorites in WARM water(above 55 degrees)...i have every color that they come in..ateast 2 of each, my favorite colors i have 3 of each.
I use long light action spinning rods(7'-8'6" St. Croix's), 6 lb. Gamakatsu G-power(smoke color) with Shimano Stradic & Ultegra and Daiwa Emblem Z reels....light line need a good drag.

My son uses a 5'3" Fenwick HMX with Okuma Metaloid, he started with a Shimano Sedonna 500FA at first, but upgraded after some hard fishing use (6 lb. Gamakatsu G-power) and has had smallies to 18 3/4" on this set up using these craws...he was 8 yrs old when he started wading streams with me...his brother was 6 yrs old. They are now 10 & 12 yrs old.

Heres my old web site with some pictures....man i have'nt messed with that site for atleast 3 yrs. now...geez.....

http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/smallie_chasers/

Scott

PS and i normally dont start my serious smallie fishing until winter sets in, i fish them all through winter ..summer just my "fun" time with them wading and such. My biggest ones have come during winter....check out my Photo album on here(OGF).
I had 2 yrs. in a row that i caught a smallie every month of the year....i'll be out after them real soon, almost time!


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Thanks River Rat, good to know we've got better months ahead!
I've been hacking along as I go, need to get specific about these smallies, might be all I can hook up w/during the winter.
Sounds like I could hire either of your sons for a guide this winter! 
BTW, as I see your passion is carp, I hooked up a 6-7 lb carp on East Fork right up on shore, w/small rebel minnow early Oct. He let me lead him right to yak, when he saw this bright yellow log, he went nuts! I reached back behind me to grab net, with it came my other spinning rig. As I was untangling the reel handle from net, Mr. carp wrapped me around some submerged logs.
I've snuck right up on many carp in my yak, you can literally reach out and stroke their backs. Bow fishing rig would be nice at that point.
Thanks again,
Jeff


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

Jeff, keep at the smallies, i could tell ya how to catch them all winter long and how to catch the big ones...but what fun would that be for you....best thing to do is spend time on the water and let them show you what they want and how they want it. Time on the water is priceless. I have over 17 yrs fishing for smallies and i will always be a smallie nut!

Then i took and split my time and fished for smallies in the day, flathead catfish by night...did this for over 9 yrs.
Now im up for a change and im deep into Euro style carp fishing and doing pretty well last 2 yrs.
"Bow fishing rig would be nice at that point"...geez us....stick to the rod & reel, its a lot more fun and challenging...only bowfish if you want to keep them. Im for Catch-Photo-Release myself, but to each is own.

Good luck on your winter quest,

Scott


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

Jeff, thanks for the reply, I will probably be out on sunday. Sat is full with the family. I hope to tye up some crayfish patterns and give that a try. As far as the smallies go I have not figured out what they want. My practicle knowledge comes from trout fishing western rivers so this is all new to me. I have not yet spent the winter trying for smallmouth so it should be fun if not frustrating. I am torn between going to mad this sunday for some trout fishing so I have to make up my mind so I can get to tying for the weekend. As far as being a purist, I would not say that I am purist just grew up flyfishing along with conventional and have come to enjoy the challange flyfishing presents. I also love tying flies and nothing beat the feeling when you create something and take it out and catch fish. I have been working on some patterns geared to the lmr. I started last summer but due some personal issues didn't get the work done. So this winter I will be tying and hope to be able to get some fies out to those that fish the lmr and see how they do. For now I will post where I am going to fish sunday and maybe we can hook up on the water. Thanks again. S

ps I have thought about adding some type gps/fishfinder to my rig as well let me know how it works out when you get it hooked up.


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

Guys, there are 2 main staples to a stream smalies diet...crayfish & minnows(many species)....in winter the crayfish are there, but dormant and mostly packed away for the winter. Smallies will keep to the deeper holes when weather turns bad like cold fronts, up and down temps., but on nice sunny days, they will move onto flats to soak up some sun and then feed on minnows that also gather in the shallows also to warm up.

I mostly fish the heat of the day...say 11am-5pm..thats it....match what they are eating and you'll not take long to figure out where they are. Hardest thing for me was to find the exact species of baitfish they prefered the most(emerald shiner, threadfin shad, striped shiner, stone roller, creek chub, ect.)..then it was only a matter of time til I found thier feeding spots.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Scott


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## sevenx (Apr 21, 2005)

Thanks Scott, Just gotta keep at it. S


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## LittleMiamiJeff (Oct 1, 2005)

Thanks, Sevenx and Scott.
I hear a lot of experience coming through, Scott's local smallie/river experience, and your river experience from out west, sevenx.
I did the majority of my fishing in Missouri, little lake an hour west of St. Louis, Pinnacle Lake.
We moved to St. Charles MO from LA, Calif. in '65.
We started catching these green fish, found out they were LM Bass!  
Never bass fished in CA, just offshore a couple of times, bonita, mackerel??
Basically learned to fish plastic worms for LM, popping bugs for sunfish and LM, simple bottom rig w/nightcrawler for small catfish.
Never really tried anything different until coming to Cincinnati in '87.
Stayed w/plastic worm, then began seineing for craws and hellgrammites in EFLMR just downstream from the spillway pool. Drifted them in fast water, caught smallies, carp, and rock bass.
I've caught a few rock bass drifting rubber minnows at Stonelick/Olive Branch EFLMR. 
Kind of stopped fishing to any degree when my two kids moved to Baltimore 5 years ago, I remarried, focused on wife, church, job, her kids and grandkids.
Just this last summer, realized I was missing something, needed to "get a life", as wife was very busy w/kids and grandkids.
Started using UL with 1/16 to 1/24 roostertail, in LMR, got canoe, surprise, caught 2 22-25" channel cats in quick succession. Then caught a couple of white bass in LMR, never seen them before. 
Started fishing a particular hole on LMR, after a month of skunks, caught over 15" whites, channels, sauger (never seen one of these either), drum, and nice smallies, all from same hole. Then saw guy pull two very nice, 6-8#, maybe better hybrid wipers from same hole, and now I'm on a mission!  
Don't mean to bore you with the TMI details, but it's been an interesting summer and fall, picked up my fishing yak this October, been in contact with offshore yak fisher guys on East Coast, My goal is to Striper fish this spring or summer off coast of (somewhere between Maine to N. Carolina).
So you can see I've got it bad.
Wife thinks it's a money pit, but seems to be very supportive, if not giving me some looks when the debit card receipts pile up.
Not quite on first name basis at Dick's and BPS, but have interesting story to tell, but promised not to broadcast it to public.
So, again, said all that to say thanks for good info, you can teach this older dog new tricks!
God Bless,
Jeff


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

Anytime Jeff, if ya ever have any questions or anything..either start a thread or PM one of us.
I'd be glad to help in anyway i can,

Scott


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## RiverRat (Apr 5, 2004)

I have to correct myself on the hook size for the tiny wee craw....i said it was #10's without looking, checked it out today and they are NOT #10's but in fact size #14's...i bought a box of replacements from Mustad, 25 count for $2.89 at Cabelas in Dundee, Mich. The model ref. # is 35647, round bend.


Sorry for the misinformation the first time.

Scott


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