# steelhead



## j1337 (Nov 29, 2012)

anyone hear of any steelhead being caught lately?


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## Carpman (May 18, 2005)

Yea right.....in NY maybe. The fall run in ohio is non-existent.


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## Rasper (Sep 6, 2012)

I caught 2 wednesday on the rocky. And hooked up with one today but didnt land him. I caught a 10lb male on wednesday it got me in the 30/10 club. 

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## rbsteele (Sep 20, 2006)

Fished the Rock for a couple hours this a.m. Managed 2 nice fish from an area I never really fish. The areas that usually produce for me gave up nothing. Really had to work for them. Only my second time out this year. Water is as low as I can remember it being and extremely clear. There is fish in there, just got to work for them. Both came on a small Pheasant Tail nymph.


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## flyman (Aug 9, 2007)

I think the reason for such low (and decreasing) numbers of fall run steelhead is because the state does not stock anymore London strain (fall run) fish, and all we get are PA strays. AFAIK Ohio now only stocks Manistee strain which is a spring run strain, since they got a good deal on them by trading other fry with Michigan. If you noticed, last season was much better in the spring. So my best guess will be that things will start to pick up once we get more water in the rivers (read snowmelt  ). But I really miss the violent fall run silver bullets...


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

Yeah, but Ohio's been stocking Little Manistees for years now and we have had decent fall runs in the past. Keep in mind PA's stocking numbers are lower also, and the run over there has been pretty crappy this year compared to years past. From what I've been hearing NY's been the best bet.


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## steelie4u (Mar 18, 2009)

fishinnick said:


> Yeah, but Ohio's been stocking Little Manistees for years now and we have had decent fall runs in the past. Keep in mind PA's stocking numbers are lower also, and the run over there has been pretty crappy this year compared to years past. From what I've been hearing NY's been the best bet.



New York was on fire last week and this week caught LOTS of Browns and steel


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Correct me if I am wrong , but I was under the impression that even spring run fish come up the river in the fall/winter....its just not their "spawning run " , they are in the river for different reasons. If so then it shouldnt matter too much which genetic strain they are , right ?


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Steelhead usually come back to spawn. But stay in the lake other wise. We always did great on the fall run but haven't done any good on this new spring run ones. Seem they different in how to fish too. And each year we seen the fall run diminishing. Now it seems there is very few of them left. So we feel as were starting all over. Maybe well get lucky and get some strays from pa. But slim chance it will be many.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

viper1 said:


> Steelhead usually come back to spawn. But stay in the lake other wise. We always did great on the fall run but haven't done any good on this new spring run ones. Seem they different in how to fish too. And each year we seen the fall run diminishing. Now it seems there is very few of them left. So we feel as were starting all over. Maybe well get lucky and get some strays from pa. But slim chance it will be many.



Nagys book mentions spring run fish entering the rivers in fall and hanging out till spring. Seeming to say that many entering the river in the fall arent necessarily on the spawning run ....or is that just how I took it ?

Of course then there are also the few who defy the odds and get caught upriver during summer when they technically shouldnt be there.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

yonderfishin said:


> Nagys book mentions spring run fish entering the rivers in fall and hanging out till spring. Seeming to say that many entering the river in the fall arent necessarily on the spawning run ....or is that just how I took it ?
> 
> Of course then there are also the few who defy the odds and get caught upriver during summer when they technically shouldnt be there.


Really cant say! Just giving my opinion of what i have seen and have been told over the years. I do believe their are fish stuck up the river or creek at times. But really don't see any reason a fish would leave Erie except to spawn. As the food and all the requirements are their. Including deeper and safer water. A thing fish seem to watch. But like most living creatures the mating call makes fools of all! And thank God because not many large bucks would be killed if it wasn't for rut! LOL!


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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

How about the lack of rain?

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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

The reason they enter the rivers is to spawn. Depending on strain, some enter in the fall, some in the spring, but they all spawn in the spring. Spring run fish may also enter in the fall, but the majority in the spring obviously.



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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

FISHIN216 said:


> How about the lack of rain?
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire



That seems to be the new normal. Even in recent "past" years we dont get the rains that used to be considered normal. Instead of common rainfalls we get long dry spells and then HUGE amounts dumped on us all at once , blowing out the rivers before yet another dry spell. Years ago you could pretty much count on regular rainfalls throughout the summer and fall , atleast one every 2 weeks if not every week. Now we go as much as a month or more sometimes without any significant precipitation worth mentioning and one county can get it all while surrounding areas stay dry. That alone could be the reason for the declining fall runs. Changing climate means the fish have to adapt.


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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

simple solution.....stock fall and spring run fish. I know we get plenty of strays but I want MORE!

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## reo (May 22, 2004)

flyman said:


> I think the reason for such low (and decreasing) numbers of fall run steelhead is because the state does not stock anymore London strain (fall run) fish, and all we get are PA strays. AFAIK Ohio now only stocks Manistee strain which is a spring run strain, since they got a good deal on them by trading other fry with Michigan. If you noticed, last season was much better in the spring. So my best guess will be that things will start to pick up once we get more water in the rivers (read snowmelt  ). But I really miss the violent fall run silver bullets...


Ohio switched to stocking ALL Little Manistee fish in 1996. Ohio has had many great runs in the fall in the last 16 years since then.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Apparently we have some of whats been called " mutt " steelhead , a cross between fall and spring run fish that cant figure out just exactly what they are.


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## Rasper (Sep 6, 2012)

So you are saying we have "seasonly challenged" steelhead breeding in our river streams and creeks? I dont know how that is possible. How could a fall run steelhead be doing a spring run and think its fall. And breed a fall run steel with a spring run male....... alright i think im cobfusing myself. 

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## mdogs444 (Aug 29, 2012)

Not necessarily. There are "mutts" and manistees. A mutt is a farmraised crossover hybrid steelhead of two types - spring and fall run. The other is typically a spring run. Ohio and PA for years were not stocking the same type, so they'd get some of ours and vice versa during the run times.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

The Manistees come in the rivers starting in Fall and trickle in all winter long.

In Michigan where the Manistees come from, they are all over the systems right now and have been since the salmon started to run. They get behind the salmon and eat the eggs. After the salmon run even more enter the river to get ready to spawn. There are no PA Mutts or fall spawners there. That is what the manistees do.

I'm also a bit confused about this rain deal. Why do fish enter the rivers more supposedly when it rains? I've not read anything about this...just talked to people and that's what everyone says. Does this mean that fish don't enter the river until it rains?

In the fall, we caught a BUNCH of kings when there was no rain. They were in deep holes. This tells me that it doesn't matter if there's rain or not...they will do what they have to do. Now this is salmon in MI.

Does anyone have scientific evidence on why fish come in when it rains?


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## mdogs444 (Aug 29, 2012)

I can't necessarily say its a "scientific fact", but what I can say is that the steelhead will move upstream as far as they can go (sometimes up to 5 miles in 1 day) when the water is high. When its high as opposed to low, they can move up easier while also using less energy. They're cold water fish and hate shallows, so when the water level starts to recede, they'll often move back downstream until they hit deep pools, a dam, or a log jam.

When the chagrin is up at 400-600cfs, I'll fish totally different areas in different methods (swinging big streamers with a switch/spey rod) versus using nymphs and wooly buggers when its down under 200cfs.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Rasper said:


> So you are saying we have "seasonly challenged" steelhead breeding in our river streams and creeks? I dont know how that is possible. How could a fall run steelhead be doing a spring run and think its fall. And breed a fall run steel with a spring run male....... alright i think im cobfusing myself.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC


All i know is John Nagys steelhead journal talks about this and the jist seems to be that the mutts or crossbred ones dont necessarily hold to the spring schedule that most of the stockers do. 

I also wonder if a pheromone or something in the water from fish already in the river system may bring in other fish from the lake almost like a chemical trail an ant leaves behind for others to follow. I dont know if that has ever even been questioned before in the science but its an interesting thought that could explain a lot


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

If you do research...especially about the west coast; there are many different breeds of rainbows and ocean runs. They're all rainbows just different environments have changed them.


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

PA's goal of the "mutt" strain was to create a steelhead that would run at all times of the year to provide a good season long fishery. As everyone knows though most of the PA "mutts" do run more in the fall. 

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I heard or read from somewhere that there is also regular non-steelhead/lake/ocean-run rainbows mixed in to create the mutt along with different steelhead strains. That's why the PA fish tend to seem and act more "stocked/hatchery troutish" if that makes any sense.


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

Just thought of this, what strain exactly is the manistee strain? Or how did it come about? Steelhead are only native out west, that's why I'm wondering since there was never really a true manistee strain until humans introduced them to the great lakes.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

fishinnick said:


> Just thought of this, what strain exactly is the manistee strain? Or how did it come about? Steelhead are only native out west, that's why I'm wondering since there was never really a true manistee strain until humans introduced them to the great lakes.


The manistee strain gets its name from the manistee river in michigan where they came from ( not originally but where they were stocked in the great lakes ). They just happened to have the spring run characteristics and tolerance to warmer temperatures that made them good for lake erie.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

fishinnick said:


> Just thought of this, what strain exactly is the manistee strain? Or how did it come about? Steelhead are only native out west, that's why I'm wondering since there was never really a true manistee strain until humans introduced them to the great lakes.


They're from stream trout in California.


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## Steelie.B (Mar 9, 2010)

fishinnick said:


> Just thought of this, what strain exactly is the manistee strain? Or how did it come about? Steelhead are only native out west, that's why I'm wondering since there was never really a true manistee strain until humans introduced them to the great lakes.


Manistee eggs are taken from wild reproducing fish in the Little Manistee. They are called Manistee because they've evolved into their own strain from a mix of Michigan's original stockings of Mcloud River, Campell Creek, and Klamath River strains.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

Steelie.B said:


> Manistee eggs are taken from wild reproducing fish in the Little Manistee. They are called Manistee because they've evolved into their own strain from a mix of Michigan's original stockings of Mcloud River, Campell Creek, and Klamath River strains.


Where's the evidence on this?

From what I read it was one strain of rainbow taken from one stream in California. Not 3 different kinds.


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

> Manistee eggs are taken from wild reproducing fish in the Little Manistee. They are called Manistee because they've evolved into their own strain from a mix of Michigan's original stockings of Mcloud River, Campell Creek, and Klamath River strains.


I knew they were from the Little Manistee(kinda assumed everyone knew lol, sorry) in Michigan, but didn't know if they were a specific western strain since they aren't native to MI.

So they are a mix or those three strains then(Mcloud, Campbell, and Klamath rivers) and then kinda evolved into their own strain. That answers my question. Thanks.

edit: Lundfish posted while I was still typing out mine. So I guess it is still up in the air on how the manistees came about to form their strain lol.


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## Steelie.B (Mar 9, 2010)

Lundfish said:


> Where's the evidence on this?
> 
> From what I read it was one strain of rainbow taken from one stream in California. Not 3 different kinds.


Here's one source.

http://steelheadsite.com/forum/cms.php?cms=article_History_of_Great_Lakes_Steelhead


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## Rasper (Sep 6, 2012)

Steelie.B said:


> Here's one source.
> 
> http://steelheadsite.com/forum/cms.php?cms=article_History_of_Great_Lakes_Steelhead



Thanks for the source. Love my history lessons. +1


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## Rasper (Sep 6, 2012)

Here is the Run Timing Chart if you didnt know how to find it.

http://steelheadsite.com/run_timing.php?sid=115c67eb68ba42ef6052d04b0a19a6f7


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

Steelie.B said:


> Here's one source.
> 
> http://steelheadsite.com/forum/cms.php?cms=article_History_of_Great_Lakes_Steelhead


Nice. Definitely more informative than what I've read.


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## Yanky (May 7, 2008)

I'm fairly certain MuskieJim was the one who made a great post last year about this and debunked a lot of the common rumors about fall/spring runs. If someone can find it, it's well worth the read and settles a lot of the heresay surrounding this topic. 


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