# Rookie Needs Help!



## BobKat (Jan 5, 2012)

Ok before I list all my stuff on eBay, can someone help! I've been out this past weekend and twice this week. Guys on both sides of me Sunday caught multiple steelhead.... Me.... Zip! Same thing during the week! I was using the same bait as others, and I believe I was getting it to the bottom (the guys Sunday told me to get the bait down. They were trying to help me out - apparently they didn't like the sight of a grown man crying). At any rate the part of "I believe I was getting the it to the bottom" may be wrong. I was using a standard shot pattern. I can't really tell if the bait is down. SO... What shot pattern do you use to get the bait down to the bottom and how to you tell if its there. I was fishing the Grand River in a spot I think was about 5 - 6' deep. Or... Maybe I'm completely wrong and screwing something else up! Any help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## brickman (Jun 2, 2008)

IMO you can't guess on depth, need to be sure. Keep adjusting your shot till it hangs up on bottom, raise the rod tip and let it go again, hangs up again reel in and raise the float 6 - 7 inches or so. Same drift no bottom snags and you should be in the zone. Pattern and amount of shot depends on flow and float size. Floats are rated as to amount of shot to run correct. Larger float ... more shot ... faster flow. I think you are guessing to much, need to be sure on depth. This is the biggest reason I see on any river for someone not hooking up, bait is to high, I.m running 4 - 5 foot and they are 18".


----------



## HookandFang (Nov 26, 2011)

Search on here, and talk to people out on the water. It may not just be getting your bait down to them. Look into line size, line mending, reading waters, etc. Just keep at it and don't give up! The reward is well worth it.


----------



## flyphisherman (Jul 7, 2009)

Your float will tell you a lot of things if you watch closely. Is your float tipped upstream, downstream, or sitting straight up and down? 

Just keep adjusting till you find the zone. :F:G


----------



## phishyone1 (Jun 27, 2008)

If your not using FLUOROCARBON line........... Thats a must too...... Get 6lb for clearing water and 8lb for green to dirty water............ And keep at it, you'll get em


----------



## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

You tried a few times and you're ready to quit already? My guess would be that it has very little to do with your set-up and equipment and more to do with your persistance and patience. Keep at it, if you truely want to catch one that is, and take mental notes to what brings you success...I have seen an array of shot patterns and set-ups out there that have been successful for various fishermen, so theres not one wrong or right answer. Finding the bottom?...Just use common sense, persistance, confidence and patience; and you will get it....but no matter what ANYONE says, the BEST way to learn and find "it" is through your own experimentation, trial & error and sticktoitiveness...THAT way you will learn better and it will stick longer. Good Luck!


----------



## fishinbula (Aug 30, 2007)

All good advice, don't give up and don't be afraid to ask to tag along with one of the members on here. A lot of us are willing to lead a helping hand.


----------



## BobcatJB (Mar 30, 2005)

May head out in the morning, we can meet up and fish if you want

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## BobKat (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks to all. I really appreciate the help. The comment about eBay was a lame attempt at humor! I am using 6 lb fluorocarbon leader. flyphisherman - Most of the time my float was straight up. Many times the tip of the float was downstream. From what I can tell from info on the net this means the float is dragging the bait behind - not good? That is why in my original post I asked about shotting patterns. I don't get the idea about placing shot to compensate for a fast surface current so yer bait can drift at the slower bottom current speed. Am I making this more complicated than it is?


----------



## kernal83 (Mar 25, 2005)

I really, really struggled with this and I think i still do a lot of the time I am obviously not an expert but since I had similar issues here is my strategy that has been working for me lately 

Make sure your fishing the seams and best parts of the run. this time of year u have to be right on em sometimes. I always like the bubble lines. Then watch your float Goal speed is slower than the bubbles since the bottom current is slower than surface ( fly rod mend the fline float gear check back or trot the float). Then I look at direction of the float ive always tried to achieve vertical but talked to a gentleman the other day who checks it back even more so the bait is in front of the float personally still trying to get that concept without altering the course of the drift. Been toying it with last couple times out. Once you are getting a good drift adjust for depth. Personally I think if ur getting a lousy drift it's impossible to get an accurate gauge of the depth. 

Also if u get a low clear day make some drifts with bright patterns and watch how they react to depth drift and float direction. Pretty crazy what's actually going on with ur bait sometimes. 

Seems like you have done a lot of reading which will pay off. Me and some friends have pretty much taught ourselves over the last 4 years or so and I'd finally say we might be average... maybe hahaha


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## BobKat (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks Kernel83 - Not sure what this means.... ( fly rod mend the fline float gear check back or trot the float). Can you explain? 

My son and I went out yesterday morning on the Grand. A few others were out there with us but is was way to cold to stay long. Our lines and foats froze over and some of the surface water was slush. Still, being out with my son was great. 

Looking forward to get out this week when it warms a little


----------



## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

Don't give up. You will catch one.

Here's some tips:

1. Get your float down dragging so that you know you're on the bottom. You will know it because you will see the current being a LOT different than your float. If you really want to be sure, put your float just above your shot. Watch it drift. You KNOW that is how your float should look. Now, get your float down there so that you KNOW it's dragging bottom. Keep bringing it down a foot at a time or so. When you hit bottom, raise it up 3 inches at a time until you see your float looking pretty much like it did when you had it just above your shot. It may be slightly different due to the current being slightly slower at the bottom but it's going to be close.

2. Make sure that your leader is long enough off of your shot line. I like at least 12" if not 18". The fish can see that shot!

3. Mend, mend, mend! Let's say that you're fishing a seam (where fast water meets slower water). If your line touches the surface of the slow water and your float is in the fast water; that means that you are creating an un-natural drift! Your line needs to be in the air or sometimes it can be BEHIND your float in the same current. I do NOT believe in bottom bouncing. I know that it will catch fish but I believe that it catches less fish. Why? Because it's an un-natural drift.

*Your offering has to look exactly like it is just floating downstream.* I am a fly fisherman for trout and this is how you catch fish. I don't fly fish for steelhead in Ohio though because it's not as productive IMO. Those fish are not as dumb as you think and they won't hit it if it doesn't look natural. However in cloudy water say 5" clarity, if that moment of 5" it looks natural they will hit it. That is not skill IMO. If you're bottom bouncing nothing I said above applies and you may as well just throw your line anywhere. I'm baffled by guys that use a centerpin and bottom bounce. It defeats half of the purpose of a centerpin.

Hope this helps

Signed- spinfisherman gone to the darkside of centerpinning


----------



## kernal83 (Mar 25, 2005)

So again this is my take on it and if someone thinks otherwise or has better advice please cut me off. Are u fly fishing or spinning ?

Fly fishing your line sits on the wAter more and youu have to make a mend in the line to get the water speeds to match and allow he bait to catch up to you float typically to slow it down you basically throwing a loop of line upstream slowing he float down and letting the bait sink I use a mend or 2 so that by time my float drifts to even with me I'm hoping to be vertical or close with my bait. You need to do he same thing with long casts on spinning gear.

The advantage of long rods is that you can keep a lot of line off the water eliminating some of the drag created by different current speeds between you and he float. If your drifting with a spinning or pin outfit as the bait drifts downstream and your float is too fast ( it's cocked with the top pointing downstream and the bait is behind it). You can add a little tension to the spool or line slowing the float down. This is called trotting I believe. The problem I have is if you check it too much you begin to get an unnatural path of the float where it pulls back towards the shore and you. Hopefully someone else can comment on this and help us both out. Trotting or holding back on the float will also cause he bait to rise up off the bottom. 


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## BobKat (Jan 5, 2012)

Wow - thanks guys! All great information that I am going to try. I'm 10' steelhead noodle rod with a spinner reel. I can't wait to get out again to try your recomendations. 

The other question I have is, as this time of the season, I thought steelhead were more lithargic and would basically hold in deep slow mmoving pools. I was assuming that this was the areas I should be fishing. I've read a lot about "reading the river" but I really do not know what that means. Can someone provide a brief summary or direct me to some resources?

Again thanks to all - This has been so valuable to me. I hope at some point I can pass on what I've learned to others!


----------



## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

They are in the slow deep pools. And even if its cold and slushy they still hit. 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

BobKat said:


> Wow - thanks guys! All great information that I am going to try. I'm 10' steelhead noodle rod with a spinner reel. I can't wait to get out again to try your recomendations.
> 
> The other question I have is, as this time of the season, I thought steelhead were more lithargic and would basically hold in deep slow mmoving pools. I was assuming that this was the areas I should be fishing. I've read a lot about "reading the river" but I really do not know what that means. Can someone provide a brief summary or direct me to some resources?
> 
> Again thanks to all - This has been so valuable to me. I hope at some point I can pass on what I've learned to others!


Steelhead want to save energy by going to current breaks. Think of it that way. All trout do this. They also are going where the food is going. Remember that 'the foam is home!'. Foam is where food is.

Where fast water meets slow water is called a seam. They will lay in the seam waiting for food to come by. They will lay behind a boulder because that is a current break. If they see food go by when they're laying in a seam they will also come out of the seam to get it. This just depends on how hungry they are and how good your offering looks.

Another thing I wanted to say above was about adjusting your float. You must constantly adjust it due to depth changes within a seam or current break. A good steelheader is always adjusting their float.

You can also use baitfish imitators like spinners and spoons and whatnot. The steelhead came from the lake and he remembers those baitfish he used to eat...he remembers.


----------



## firstflight111 (May 22, 2008)

BobKat said:


> Ok before I list all my stuff on eBay, can someone help! I've been out this past weekend and twice this week. Guys on both sides of me Sunday caught multiple steelhead.... Me.... Zip! Same thing during the week! I was using the same bait as others, and I believe I was getting it to the bottom (the guys Sunday told me to get the bait down. They were trying to help me out - apparently they didn't like the sight of a grown man crying). At any rate the part of "I believe I was getting the it to the bottom" may be wrong. I was using a standard shot pattern. I can't really tell if the bait is down. SO... What shot pattern do you use to get the bait down to the bottom and how to you tell if its there. I was fishing the Grand River in a spot I think was about 5 - 6' deep. Or... Maybe I'm completely wrong and screwing something else up! Any help would be greatly appreciated


when i get better i will take you out


----------

