# The high prices of lumber



## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

The cost of retail lumber has gone up far worse than the price of gas.I wish that wasn't true but I have been leasing some of my properties to some major timber and pulp/paper companies. The lease agreements are on raw materials at a set percentage. Some leases are coming up soon and I am hearing quite a bit of negative news on those. Claims of Covid impacting operations. It might be different if I was getting a discount on lumber, but I don't. And operations haven't been an issue, in fact jobs in that area are picking up. I do know that when negotiating upcoming contracts, I will have the upper hand as in the past.
I'm like everyone else. I can't afford to do some things around the house right now because of the prices. A sheet of plain old plywood at $50.to $70.is ridiculous!
I have talked with neighboring land owners, and some closed their rights of passage, which doesn't effect me but they are feeling (put upon)as one land owner put it . These landowners weren't stupid enough to make long term commitments just for passage rights. And I don't blame them. But right now I am bummed that the prices may not come down this summer, and I don't know what the new housing market is like. A $200K house costing $275k+?


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

Housing boom and people staying home upgrading their houses are to blame. People never happy with what they got.


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## Deadeyedeek (Feb 12, 2014)

My buddy and I dug a fotter and poured a slab last fall and he had a load of lumber brought in and we covered it up good and were gonna start on cottage this spring..the Hillbillies stole the whole load this winter, he turned it in to his insurance..he paid just shy of 18 thous, his insurance paid replacement value to replace, 30 grand..in 1 year WTF


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

renovations and new housing is booming in greater Cleveo, track and custom builders and re-modelers can't keep up, some of them are already booked thru August ... it's the same issue for a lot of plumbing materials as well, the storm in Texas made an already bad situation worse ... one project expected 4 flatbeds of wolmanized wood to be delivered, they got 1 and had to wait weeks for the others ... some of my contractors only give non-binding estimates and won't even include bids for materials for a job any longer because of the increases from the time they bid until they do it, it's T&M and they aren't shy with the invoice ... I've heard $20-40K extra from a year ago for just the wood on a new home ... it's a good time to be a contractor right now ...


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## joekacz (Sep 11, 2013)

Deadeyedeek said:


> My buddy and I dug a fotter and poured a slab last fall and he had a load of lumber brought in and we covered it up good and were gonna start on cottage this spring..the Hillbillies stole the whole load this winter, he turned it in to his insurance..he paid just shy of 18 thous, his insurance paid replacement value to replace, 30 grand..in 1 year WTF


Glad that you got replacement value but is there lumber enough to purchase??


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

we get most of our wood from Pacific NW and Canada ... trees are still growing, Covid probably shut down harvesting operations much of last spring and summer ... we blew thru what was in the pipeline and the reserve last year and nothing was being produced, now capitalisum is at work, everything costs more to do and demand is up ... a lot of stuff was sent to Texas, supply and demand, it happens all the time w/hurricanes and Fla. ... it's wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that Weyerhauser and the rest of the lumber supply chain are also taking advantage of the situation somewhat, you know how that works ...


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## joekacz (Sep 11, 2013)

I know that at one time a lot of plywood was being mass produced out on the Pacific Ocean by a Japanese company,not sure if that is still going on. I shouldn’t of said I know but that’s what I was told.


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## Ten Bears (Jan 12, 2012)

I am a member of the VFW Riders in Geneva. We build ramps for disabled vets at no charge to them. Out costs have doubled.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Tariffs on Canadian soft lumber.

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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

ress said:


> Tariffs on Canadian soft lumber.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


This is exactly what happened.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

Glad I rebuilt my deck last spring! I was talking to a guy last week who was looking to build a home. He said he's putting off building it until next year because his home builder was going to charge him an extra $25k because the price of lumber increased so much.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

joekacz said:


> I know that at one time a lot of plywood was being mass produced out on the Pacific Ocean by a Japanese company,not sure if that is still going on. I shouldn’t of said I know but that’s what I was told.


I believe it was a giant ship, Aircraft carrier size ... sat out in ocean, they brought the trees in one end and took boards out the other ... very little waste either, they used the wood chips and sawdust to make OSB and particle board ... don't know if it's operating right now, seems a shame that we have to send our trees somewhere else to be made into usable products and the Japs can do that and make any $$$ but we can't do it for ourselves in our own country ...


there might have been some, but even if they doubled them there's still not enough tariffs to cause the increases in cost that have happened ... some of that is supply / demand, some is just companies taking advantage of the situation to make a few more $$$[/QUOTE]


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## joekacz (Sep 11, 2013)

baitguy said:


> I believe it was a giant ship, Aircraft carrier size ... sat out in ocean, they brought the trees in one end and took boards out the other ... don't know if it's operating right now, seems a shame that we have to send our trees somewhere else to be made into usable products and the Japs can do that and make any $$$ but we can't do it for ourselves in our own country ...
> 
> 
> there might have been some, but even if they doubled them there's still not enough tariffs to cause the increases in cost that have happened ... some of that is supply / demand, some is just companies taking advantage of the situation to make a few more $$$


[/QUOTE]Remeber profit is not a dirty word unless you’re the one trying to make a profit.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Too many are taking advantage of the opportunity to cash in. I had a survey of old growth timber done last year and put a freeze on harvesting them and now my phone is blowing up. All I can tell them is, "If one of those trees are harvested, be prepared for a maximum price hike". I have managed that sector for over thirty years now and I am not going to let a few morons make any more mistakes, as they have claimed in the past. Now with Google Earth,I can keep a record of real-time surveillance. I pay for the service when I feel like someone is going to try to take advantage of the opportunity to get rich. I have dealt with this before, but now its much easier having a record of proof actually pays off. Old growth timber have always been at a premium price.


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## chadwimc (Jun 27, 2007)

JamesF said:


> Too many are taking advantage of the opportunity to cash in. I had a survey of old growth timber done last year and put a freeze on harvesting them and now my phone is blowing up. All I can tell them is, "If one of those trees are harvested, be prepared for a maximum price hike". I have managed that sector for over thirty years now and I am not going to let a few morons make any more mistakes, as they have claimed in the past. Now with Google Earth,I can keep a record of real-time surveillance. I pay for the service when I feel like someone is going to try to take advantage of the opportunity to get rich. I have dealt with this before, but now its much easier having a record of proof actually pays off. Old growth timber have always been at a premium price.


I'm missing something. How does Google let you have real time surveillance on a wood lot?


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## Tree_Beard (Jan 13, 2021)

I was a timber buyer during The last housing boom in the oughts. The price for polar was through the roof. One of our loggers saw a nice stand on the neighbors property and helped himself. Lots of folks paid dearly for that.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

[/QUOTE]Remeber profit is not a dirty word unless you’re the one trying to make a profit.

you're right there joekacz, there's overhead and risk in anything, a fair profit is not a dirty word ... unless you're Bernie Sanders  sorry, I had to say it  it's the capitalist way and it works ... how much is a fair profit becomes the issue is when an already profitable, ginormous corporation exploits a situation and raises prices considerably on moderately essential products just because they can ...


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## Nauti cat (Nov 30, 2009)

Cane Bay, Summerville S.C. 400/ 600 new homes high $ 200k selling like hot cakes. I see truck load after truck load of pine on the highway.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Carolina's covered in pine trees as you can see. Huge lumber area.

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## sliprig (Apr 6, 2004)

I did some research on this. There are 4-5 big companies that produce most of the finished lumber used in building. The retailers pretty much work off a percentage of cost. Unless a builder had contracts for lumber ( one year out, unlikely) their just passing on costs. The raw timber prices are up only a little. Now look up the profit margins of the big 4 for the last quarter. Up big time. In some cases tenfold. I also read the glue used in ply material is produced overseas. Stupid Americans, we are letting the world eat our lunch.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

chadwimc said:


> I'm missing something. How does Google let you have real time surveillance on a wood lot?


 Surveillance is through a third-party site that is now getting approved by private parties protecting their investment in land,timber, and minerals. This service is provided by several big timber companies. Being the landowner I have the same access as the timber companies. The surveys are available on a Google pro app,with the client server. This is similar to an Agricultural server.


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## chadwimc (Jun 27, 2007)

JamesF said:


> Surveillance is through a third-party site that is now getting approved by private parties protecting their investment in land,timber, and minerals. This service is provided by several big timber companies. Being the landowner I have the same access as the timber companies. The surveys are available on a Google pro app,with the client server. This is similar to an Agricultural server.


So its not real time? Just archived images?


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

Yes. Like Google earth, only images are uploaded more often during times that theft or reports of progress. One of the properties is in Colorado, it's strictly pulp and paper. The other properties have a mix of timber and those are more valuable and theft is somewhat more accessible.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

Relly going to effect the new houseing market. The price to build a new home, WOW


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## ditchdigger (Feb 22, 2012)

one3 said:


> Relly going to effect the new houseing market. The price to build a new home, WOW


I am a sub contractor. I work for about 8 different home builders. All are crazy busy right now, even with the high material prices! I don’t get it🤔. I believe it’s going to come to a screeching halt in the near future.


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

At some point the price should drop. Just as the price of everything else. Big companies have been and still keeping the costs of goods up. When people stop paying these high prices then hopefully they'll come down. 
A lot of people are basically buying stuff that they really don't need. Those Stimulus checks proves that. I can understand those using the money for bills and such. We need to have some major repairs done soon and I really don't want to spend that extra money.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

Prices my come down, but not like they were.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

ditchdigger said:


> I am a sub contractor. I work for about 8 different home builders. All are crazy busy right now, even with the high material prices! I don’t get it🤔. I believe it’s going to come to a screeching halt in the near future.


Have y’all had any issues with material theft? Seems like it would be bad in a time like this.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

one3 said:


> Prices my come down, but not like they were.



I think that's going to be the case for a lot of stuff, anybody want to bet the next time we see gas at $2.50 again? ... part of it is actual shortages and such but much of it is contrived, imagined or blown out of proportion issues that are an excuse to raise prices and keep them there even when it's no longer justified ...


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## Tree_Beard (Jan 13, 2021)

Mortgages are practically free and Uncle Sam keeps sending us free money. Everybody who wants to is working. Also, there has been a federal ban on foreclosures for almost a year. Piles of cash+no inventory = construction boom


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

Tree_Beard said:


> Mortgages are practically free and Uncle Sam keeps sending us free money. Everybody who wants to is working. Also, there has been a federal ban on foreclosures for almost a year. Piles of cash+no inventory = construction boom


Where do you get these free mortgages you're talking about?!?!


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## Tree_Beard (Jan 13, 2021)

Smitty82 said:


> Where do you get these free mortgages you're talking about?!?!


The house isn’t free, but 15 yr mortgages at sub 2% makes the cost of borrowing negligible. Low interest rates increase buying power.


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## fasteddy (Jul 15, 2012)

I paid 15 3/4% when I bought my house in early 80's. 2-3% in my opinion is free. Not complaining, it is what it was.


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## Smitty82 (Mar 13, 2011)

People might be getting lower intrest rates right now, but they're also paying ALOT more money for the houses in this market.


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## PBsQuest (May 26, 2013)

Smitty82 said:


> People might be getting lower intrest rates right now, but they're also paying ALOT more money for the houses in this market.


Right now it’s costing the consumer about $4.20 per thousand dollars borrowed. It’s the reason it’s easy to make offers well above the asking price for homes. I keep waiting for something to happen to open the market back up. It’s hard for buyers right now, especially first time buyers who may not have a stockpile of cash. 


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

PBsQuest said:


> Right now it’s costing the consumer about $4.20 per thousand dollars borrowed. It’s the reason it’s easy to make offers well above the asking price for homes. I keep waiting for something to happen to open the market back up. It’s hard for buyers right now, especially first time buyers who may not have a stockpile of cash.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If my math is good, add another 50k ,give or take.


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## ditchdigger (Feb 22, 2012)

Smitty82 said:


> Have y’all had any issues with material theft? Seems like it would be bad in a time like this.


I’m not sure, I bring my pipe on the truck and go back to my shop every day.


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## bdawg (Apr 14, 2009)

JamesF said:


> If my math is good, add another 50k ,give or take.


I've heard that house prices go up and down by about 10% for every 1% change in the interest rates. So, a $200,000 house will be worth $180,000 if the rates go up 1%. Of course there are other factors that effect the price, but interest rates are a major one. Nowhere for house prices to go but down right now.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)




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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

There are so many factors that can ruin your day! It's a realtors market now. I have several friends that are stuffing their bank accounts. Most of this depending upon how bad and how much people are willing to spend. My neighbor just put his house on the market and it's pending for sale. Less than four days! And their getting 15k above market!!


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

I've been looking for a cottage up on Erie. One was listed last week, with Thursday being the first anyone could look at it. The wife and I drove up after work and they already had offers on it. We put an offer over their asking price. They accepted offers thru Saturday and all my realtor was told is they accepted an offer significantly over the asking price. Its ridiculous!

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## PBsQuest (May 26, 2013)

JamesF said:


> There are so many factors that can ruin your day! It's a realtors market now. I have several friends that are stuffing their bank accounts. Most of this depending upon how bad and how much people are willing to spend. My neighbor just put his house on the market and it's pending for sale. Less than four days! And their getting 15k above market!!


It’s not a Realtor’s market. It’s a huge sellers market. There are two sides of the coin. If you have buyers, as Misdirection knows, it is amazingly frustrating. When I have a listing I’m a hero. With buyers you are just making sure they know they have to be able to compete, sometimes to what would normally be unreasonable levels. There is even less inventory now as what was available last year. Available houses on the market are as much as 75% down from the running 5 year average in NE Ohio. If you have a buyer that loves it, so do 10 others that are writing offers. This won’t last forever. If you want to sell, now is definitely the time. 


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

Last summer when I was pumping gas at a station a big log truck pulled up beside me for gas. I got to talking to the ol boy and I asked, what's a big load like this worth? He said, a little north of $3,000. He then said, unless it was red oak. Then he said, all of that's going to China.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

Lazy 8 said:


> Last summer when I was pumping gas at a station a big log truck pulled up beside me for gas. I got to talking to the ol boy and I asked, what's a big load like this worth? He said, a little north of $3,000. He then said, unless it was red oak. Then he said, all of that's going to China.


 it seems odd that China doesn't have a closer source for trees than halfway around the world 🧐 maybe we're paying off some of our debt 🤐 they'll probably make boards out of it with made in China stamped on them, send them back to us AND make a profit 🤑 to bad we're not smart enough to do that 🙄


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

I guess that's why I'm not a realtor.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

JamesF said:


> I guess that's why I'm not a realtor.


..laugh China won't let you sell houses and make a profit comrade, it's all for the betterment of the masses  and besides, you couldn't exploit child or slave labor 🤑


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

While in Lowes today, I walked over to price a common 2x4x8. It was $7.97. 
A guy and his son in front of me had about 20 pressure treated 2x4's, half dozen 2x8 lattice panels and about 20 or so dog eared fence panels. Oh, some screws. Total was about $480.00 bucks.
Dang!


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Lazy 8 said:


> While in Lowes today, I walked over to price a common 2x4x8. It was $7.97.
> A guy and his son in front of me had about 20 pressure treated 2x4's, half dozen 2x8 lattice panels and about 20 or so dog eared fence panels. Oh, some screws. Total was about $480.00 bucks.
> Dang!


And gonna get worse...
Buddy of mine drives OTR for Lowes. 
Guess corporate is again discussing price hikes on certain merchandise. Especially items shipped from West coast.
Reason...rising fuel cost.

Brother drives for ABF Freight. Their delivery charges are going up as well.
Reason...rising fuel cost. 
Can't help but think other freight companies won't be forced to do the same.

Next in line for price raise...more stores raising prices on more commodities.
Reason...the trickle down affect of rising cost of fuel.

Ya gotta love it...


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## hailtothethief (Jan 18, 2017)

Im waiting for the guy standing in town with the sign that says ‘will work for 2x4’s’


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## dcool (Apr 14, 2004)

It wasn't too many years ago we were paying about the same for fuel and prices didn't sky rocket like they are now. I think it is plain old price gouging.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Fuel sur- charges for truck lines will be added as the fuel cost goes up. It has been climbing but don't think it's there yet. Back in my transportation days the bargaining tool was to get the carrier to dismiss the surcharge. Instead of them raising rates across the board which takes a tremendous amount of work the surcharge is adjustible to fuel cost. Sorry for the boring response but was having flash backs to those days

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## night vision (Apr 26, 2016)

This is nothing but Inflation, when you keep printing fiat currency and pumping it into the economy you get inflation!


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## Ol' Whiskers (Aug 11, 2004)

= more "money" buying less product, AKA "full faith and credit" in the US gummint. The government cannot default on its obligations as it has the power to print more money or increase taxes in order to repay its debt. I


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## dolf (Jun 3, 2015)

I haven’t shopped for lumber in a while and was shocked at 48.55 for a sheet of 7/16 osb at Home Depot yesterday.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm replacing some of deck using all pressure treated and it sure isn't fun paying 3 even 4 times what I could have bought items for just a couple years back!

And yes, the housing market is nuts....house around the corner went for sale (we didn't even know) and sold the same day. Haven't been nosey enough to look at the final price, but they asked on the high end (I was nosey enough to look online and see what the asking price was). I don't even think they got a sign in the yard honestly.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

With the current brilliant plans for lumber coming from Canada it’s going to get a whole lot worse.


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

bobk said:


> With the current brilliant plans for lumber coming from Canada it’s going to get a whole lot worse.


 wasn't there a huge outcry about tariffs from a certain segment of our leaders a couple years ago? Oh yeah, that was for China, we got new leaders, now China's OK, bring on the cheap junk, but we can't have those Canadians flooding our market w/stuff we need like oil and lumber 🤓 it's going to be a bountiful economy soon, these guys got it figured out right 🤬


older house next door is small and hasn't seen any maintenance in at least 20 years, maybe more, it basically needs a whole house remodel, there was a "coming soon" sign up for less than a week, over 30 people that I saw were looking at it, on the official listing day they had 8 offers, all well over high asking, it sold for almost $20K over by end of day ... I'm told many buyers are also demanding cash "honorariums" on top of selling price as well ... I've heard of contractors in my area who have canceled contracts because they'd lose money ... many of them only work T & M ...


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Good friend owns a successful construction company. He quotes houses months out and sometimes a year before he gets to the job he is so busy. Now he has to rebid everything. Some people understand and some get pissed. He walks away from the ones that people don’t comprehend what has happened to the market. He rather do T&M as well.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

ress said:


> Fuel sur- charges for truck lines will be added as the fuel cost goes up. *It has been climbing but don't think it's there yet. ...*


Average Diesel cost /gal this time last year $2.55. Just paid $3.24/gal yesterday.
Check out when the rises starts from just the 1st of the year till now.
With your past experience in the trucking industry...would you say the trucking industry can absorb that kind of daily operational increase?
LOL...yea...the surcharge is here.

Gasoline...$1.97 average last year. Average today $3.04/gal.
And according to these predictions(which Ray Charles can see)...only going to get worse:








Memorial Day weekend 2021 gas prices: What to know


According to AAA, California, Hawaii, Nevada, Washington state, Oregon, Utah, Alaska, Illinois, Idaho, and Washington, D.C. currently rank as the top 10 areas with the highest average regular gas prices, ranging between $3.17 and $4.18 per gallon heading into the holiday weekend.




www.foxbusiness.com




.



bobk said:


> With the current brilliant plans for lumber coming from Canada it’s going to get a whole lot worse.


Yep...even thinking about doubling wood tariffs from Canada(or anywhere else) under the present conditions ='s pure brilliance.
Especially since the current wood prices have already added $36,000 on the average new build.
Guess we are in the middle of popping the great housing/construction market bubble that was geniously created just as fast as we can.
Long term outcome of ruining that industry...='s...even more sickening stats to the current 6.1 unemployment rate. Which incidentally was 3.5% Feb 2020(pre covid)


https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf


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## Lazy 8 (May 21, 2010)

fastwater said:


> Average Diesel cost /gal this time last year $2.55. Just paid $3.24/gal yesterday.
> Check out when the rises starts from just the 1st of the year till now.
> With your past experience in the trucking industry...would you say the trucking industry can absorb that kind of daily operational increase?
> LOL...yea...the surcharge is here.
> ...


You are both exactomundo. I'm not an economist but why double tariffs from Canada and ship our wood to China?








Biden administration could double Canadian lumber tariffs even as wood and construction costs soar


The U.S. Commerce Department has proposed doubling the tariff on Canadian lumber from 9% to 18%—a prospect that dismays homebuilders.




www.google.com


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## John Garwood (Jul 5, 2016)

JamesF said:


> The cost of retail lumber has gone up far worse than the price of gas.I wish that wasn't true but I have been leasing some of my properties to some major timber and pulp/paper companies. The lease agreements are on raw materials at a set percentage. Some leases are coming up soon and I am hearing quite a bit of negative news on those. Claims of Covid impacting operations. It might be different if I was getting a discount on lumber, but I don't. And operations haven't been an issue, in fact jobs in that area are picking up. I do know that when negotiating upcoming contracts, I will have the upper hand as in the past.
> I'm like everyone else. I can't afford to do some things around the house right now because of the prices. A sheet of plain old plywood at $50.to $70.is ridiculous!
> I have talked with neighboring land owners, and some closed their rights of passage, which doesn't effect me but they are feeling (put upon)as one land owner put it . These landowners weren't stupid enough to make long term commitments just for passage rights. And I don't blame them. But right now I am bummed that the prices may not come down this summer, and I don't know what the new housing market is like. A $200K house costing $275k+?


you get what these clowns voted for


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## baitguy (Dec 17, 2013)

Lazy 8 said:


> You are both exactomundo. I'm not an economist but why double tariffs from Canada and ship our wood to China?



because China pays more ...


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

fastwater said:


> Average Diesel cost /gal this time last year $2.55. Just paid $3.24/gal yesterday.
> Check out when the rises starts from just the 1st of the year till now.
> With your past experience in the trucking industry...would you say the trucking industry can absorb that kind of daily operational increase?
> LOL...yea...the surcharge is here.
> ...


I've been out of the transportation industry for about 15 yrs. Please keep me informed. I always used surcharges for negotiating rates. Most of my carriers wanted my freight so they either waved them or we agreed on a lesser percent.


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## dcool (Apr 14, 2004)

I live not too far from a rail crossing and see between six and twenty cars of lumber going south about every day, so somebody is evidently paying the high prices for lumber.


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