# New drug - Watch out



## Bonecrusher (Aug 7, 2010)

This one is gonna be bad, bad news. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/26/heroin-krokodil-flesh-rotting-arrives-us-arizona/2879817/

If you would like a little more go to Google images and search Krokodil. Make sure you have a strong stomach.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

I was reading about this last night on' the Huntington post. They had some pretty graphic pics of the flesh rot. Hopefully even the most strung out of dope fiends catch wind of the reality. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

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## Weekender#1 (Mar 25, 2006)

OMG how can those idiots do that to themselves, I just don't understand, why. Why would anyone even make that stuff.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

> homemade opiate is made from over-the-counter codeine-based headache pills mixed with iodine, gasoline, paint thinner or alcohol


Who sat down one day and decided this was something they wanted to mix together in inject into themselves?


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

You know it is hard for me to have pitty for junkies. I don't think there is anyone in the world that doesn't know any better. "Oh, this is a brand new drug that just came out! Intravenous injection sounds great. Give me two please."

SMH

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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

jlami said:


> You know it is hard for me to have pitty for junkies. I don't think there is anyone in the world that doesn't know any better. "Oh, this is a brand new drug that just came out! Intravenous injection sounds great. Give me two please." Same thing with Molli, people are just dumb.
> 
> SMH
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app




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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

who knew it was going to melt the flesh like cheap soft plastic grubs?


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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

with my job I've had the opportunity to have conversation with the drug guys in Dayton, apparently it was moving it's way in already (this conversation was almost a year ago) definitely don't feel bad for anyone who uses it.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> who knew it was going to melt the flesh like cheap soft plastic grubs?


Huh? So that makes it okay? Maybe I don't understand what you're saying. I sure hope that's the case.


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## kparrott154 (Mar 26, 2007)

My boss showed me a documentary on YouTube about people using the drug in Russia. It's bad news

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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

I think it is awesome now the addicts will just melt away. We won't have to waste tax payer dollars with ambulances. The quicker the drug can destroy these idiots the better. I have addicts in my family and have no sympathy for this crap.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

M.Magis said:


> Who sat down one day and decided this was something they wanted to mix together in inject into themselves?


I think this exact thing about most drugs....I just don't get it.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

M.Magis said:


> Huh? So that makes it okay? Maybe I don't understand what you're saying. I sure hope that's the case.


it isnt okay. just saying.... not many commoners know that mixing headache pills with certain chemicals can melt your flesh when injected constantly. yet... they still use it.


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## buckzye11 (Jul 16, 2009)

Darwin's therories proving correct here. If you put that mix in your veins you deserve the results.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> it isnt okay. just saying.... not many commoners know that mixing headache pills with certain chemicals can melt your flesh when injected constantly. yet... they still use it.


I would say many commoners don't inject their headache pills. If someone is dumb enough to inject themselves with an unknown mixture they deserve the results.


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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

I read a creepypasta style horror story about this drug a while ago, I thought it was fiction. Hmmm.


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## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

Fox News had an article on this yesterday saying how bad it was and what it could do. Then right in the middle of the article, it told you exactly what you needed to make it. It didnt give specific measurements or anything like that, but come on man. It drives me nuts when they make an article on how bad something is and then tell you in the same article exactly what is needed to make what ever it is they are talking about. That never made any sense to me at all.


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## Dave_E (Apr 6, 2004)

imalt said:


> I think it is awesome now the addicts will just melt away. We won't have to waste tax payer dollars with ambulances. The quicker the drug can destroy these idiots the better. I have addicts in my family and have no sympathy for this crap.


I see your point in general, but your view is a little harsh. Does this apply to all addicts?

By your same logic cigarette addicts and alcohol addicts shouldn't get any assistance either unless they can completely pay for it themselves.

They know in advance what they're getting into but do it anyway, and then become addicted. 


Back to the original post, that's messed up. You've got to have some real issues to get involved with this stuff.


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

Dave_E said:


> I see your point in general, but your view is a little harsh. Does this apply to all addicts?
> 
> By your same logic cigarette addicts and alcohol addicts shouldn't get any assistance either unless they can completely pay for it themselves.
> 
> ...


A drug addict is a little different than a smoker or alcoholic. I don't think the majority of smokers are robbing people to get their next fix. Maybe if this country shared my views it would be a better place instead of enabling these wastes of life to milk the system. But yes if someone has a problem it should be up to them and their family to pay for it not me.


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## Gottagofishn (Nov 18, 2009)

Wow..... That's about all I can say.

It is a screwed up world for sure, to that I think we can all agree. 

That being said, I hope none of us has a child that has become an addict....


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

I'll stick with the old stuff. It works just fine.


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## yakfish (Mar 13, 2005)

Nicotine and Alcohol are both drugs. Their use (abuse) can kill you. The things people deliberately put into their bodies amazes me. Alcohol and Nicotine included.


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

yakfish said:


> Nicotine and Alcohol are both drugs. Their use (abuse) can kill you. The things people deliberately put into their bodies amazes me. Alcohol and Nicotine included.


The dose makes the poison.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

imalt said:


> I would say many commoners don't inject their headache pills. If someone is dumb enough to inject themselves with an unknown mixture they deserve the results.


agreed. if you are desperate enough to use a drug that melts flesh like a peep in the microwave, then you deserved what comes next.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

shwookie said:


> The dose makes the poison.


no, alcohol is a poison. It just poisons you on a lower level in lower doses. The only illicit drug that occurs naturally in the human body is thc. opiates are close but way more effective than dopamine, your receptors to the happy low pain life you live quit working because of how effective they are, hence the painful withdrawal. opiates are not as poisonous as one thinks. overdose deaths are mainly because your involuntary mechanisms quit working, you forget to breath. nicotine is a poison


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## ducman491 (Oct 31, 2011)

I have no sympathy for anyone who uses these drugs and anyone under 35 that smokes cigarettes. The tobacco companies haven't been telling us that 4 out of 5 Dr.s recommend Kools for a very long time. Nobody tricked you into smoking. Yes, quitting is hard but not impossible so if you still smoke that's your fault.


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## woodsnwater86 (Jun 29, 2013)

Hay I'm for the drug. It said they die in 2 or 3 years. less scum in the world


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

ducman491 said:


> I have no sympathy for anyone who uses these drugs and anyone under 35 that smokes cigarettes. The tobacco companies haven't been telling us that 4 out of 5 Dr.s recommend Kools for a very long time. Nobody tricked you into smoking. Yes, quitting is hard but not impossible so if you still smoke that's your fault.


I'm 37 and never heard anyone say that a doctor would recommend cigarettes. But I was an 8yo who was tired of taking ass kickings from my oldest brother and cousin's, who thought out would be funny to let me to chew Copenhagen. I did, and I still use to this day.

Sorry, I'll her off the venting box now...

Mr. A


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

geoffoquinn said:


> no, alcohol is a poison. It just poisons you on a lower level in lower doses. The only illicit drug that occurs naturally in the human body is thc. opiates are close but way more effective than dopamine, your receptors to the happy low pain life you live quit working because of how effective they are, hence the painful withdrawal. opiates are not as poisonous as one thinks. overdose deaths are mainly because your involuntary mechanisms quit working, you forget to breath. nicotine is a poison


Thc is not a cure all wonder drug in the same right and can be abused.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

My grandfather born in 1900 was a tiger, but when he went into the hospital and they gave him opiates, he had an allergic reaction and he literally changed overnight - the next morning, he said he wanted to die, and he was that way and bedridden for a few more years until he did die.

My mother was on big oxy and fentanyl patches due to pain. That stuff paralyzes the gut. She was a cancer survivor but she died of a perforated intestine and toxic shock. I'll spare you the details.

I still have the last few oxy 5mg pills left. I keep them in reserve for when I pull a muscle or when I have one of those body-ache flu episodes when every joint hurts.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

FOSR said:


> My grandfather born in 1900 was a tiger, but when he went into the hospital and they gave him opiates, he had an allergic reaction and he literally changed overnight - the next morning, he said he wanted to die, and he was that way and bedridden for a few more years until he did die.
> 
> My mother was on big oxy and fentanyl patches due to pain. That stuff paralyzes the gut. She was a cancer survivor but she died of a perforated intestine and toxic shock. I'll spare you the details.
> 
> I still have the last few oxy 5mg pills left. I keep them in reserve for when I pull a muscle or when I have one of those body-ache flu episodes when every joint hurts.


This is the problem. Opiates are like Lays some people can't have just one. A heroin addict told me, " you don't just do heroin and decide, I'm going to take a break. You either do it or get extremely sick."Tylenol is actually worse for your liver. He spent 250-700 a day on heroin and also said he could make 250 last all day if he had to. They are toxic. I also know someone else who got a mis diagnosis of hepatitis c because of how much percocet 30's he was taking 10-30 a day. I'm glad I never got into that stuff. If you poison yourself on tylenol you are most likely done. If it doesn't kill you right away, you're liver will fail shortly down the road. I wanted to clear up what I was saying because I don't want to glorify any drug abuse.


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

geoffoquinn said:


> Thc is not a cure all wonder drug in the same right and can be abused.


It's a poison as well as tobacco and alcohol, quit trying to make it sound ok to smoke. THC damages the brain. The smoke contains carcinogenic compounds.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

Muskarp said:


> It's a poison as well as tobacco and alcohol, quit trying to make it sound ok to smoke. THC damages the brain. The smoke contains carcinogenic compounds.


It's not always smoked. Its molecular structure mimics perfectly chemicals all ready in your body. There is no toxic dose. If brain damage does occur it's way less significant than alcohol. Look at Dennis Rodman and Tommy Chong. Dennis has a wet brain and Tommy seems to still have his wits about him in his mid 70's. Willie Nelson still can sing all of his hit songs as well.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

The only three drugs with potentially lethal withdrawals are Alcohol, Barbiturates and benzo drugs like xanax. Heroin and cocaine withdrawal will make you think you want to die but are not lethal at all. Thc has little or no withdrawal symptoms because your natural brain chemicals still function in its absence. Other drugs are evacuated "kick out of" from your system in days meth, alcohol, opiates etc. Thc is goes from the blood to your fat cells and is naturally broken down in your digestive system for up to however long it takes your fat to be naturally digested. It stays in your system for about 40 days without causing any adverse effects. Your body doesn't digest any other drug this way. Unless you consider food a mind altering substance


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## Muskarp (Feb 5, 2007)

geoffoquinn said:


> Look at Dennis Rodman and Tommy Chong. Dennis has a wet brain and Tommy seems to still have his wits about him in his mid 70's. Willie Nelson still can sing all of his hit songs as well.


That's your defense? There are alcoholics and smokers that are healthy and functioning into their later years as well.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

Muskarp said:


> That's your defense? There are alcoholics and smokers that are healthy and functioning into their later years as well.


No the next response is. They were just a few of the many examples of my argument.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

geoffoquinn said:


> The only three drugs with potentially lethal withdrawals are Alcohol, Barbiturates and benzo drugs like xanax. Heroin and cocaine withdrawal will make you think you want to die but are not lethal at all. Thc has little or no withdrawal symptoms because your natural brain chemicals still function in its absence. Other drugs are evacuated "kick out of" from your system in days meth, alcohol, opiates etc. Thc is goes from the blood to your fat cells and is naturally broken down in your digestive system for up to however long it takes your fat to be naturally digested. It stays in your system for about 40 days without causing any adverse effects. Your body doesn't digest any other drug this way. Unless you consider food a mind altering substance


Sugar is an exception, when abused it is more toxic than thc causing diabetes and many other adverse and obvious health effects.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Nicotine is considered no more toxic than caffeine. Its the other stuff packed into tobacco that causes problems. 

Alcohol and tobacco are legally controlled and regulated so that you know what and how much you are using. Illegal drugs uncontrolled and unregulated and any of those drugs can be misidentified or highly concentrated. Most use of these drugs are addicted overuse. 

Everything in moderation, including water, slat, vitamins, minerals, sugar, fat, and exercise can all be dangerous in excess. Alcohol can be dangerous with excessive and long term use. Harmless in moderation.

Tobacco has long term health effects that "tend" to appear after 20-40 years of use. With minor health effects during use.

Some illicit drugs can kill you the first time you ever use them or any time after. The serious long term affect shows in just a matter of years. They also show immediate ties to and increase criminal behavior. 

I can not imagine lumping these into the same category. 
Average affect on life expectancy;
Obesity= 10 years off life expectancy
Alcoholism= 10 years off life expectancy
Tobacco= 20 years off life expectancy
Illicit Drugs= as little as 5 years after start of use for certain drugs.

If you knowingly take something into your body then you are responsible for the consequence. The only victims of drug use are the people that get robbed or attacked by druggies.


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

geoffoquinn said:


> no, alcohol is a poison. It just poisons you on a lower level in lower doses. The only illicit drug that occurs naturally in the human body is thc. opiates are close but way more effective than dopamine, your receptors to the happy low pain life you live quit working because of how effective they are, hence the painful withdrawal. opiates are not as poisonous as one thinks. overdose deaths are mainly because your involuntary mechanisms quit working, you forget to breath. nicotine is a poison


"the dose makes the posion", is a saying. not a fact.

By "making" the poison it is referring to moderation. In the wrong quantities anything can be toxic, hence the "dose" part.


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## streamstalker (Jul 8, 2005)

shwookie said:


> "the dose makes the posion", is a saying. not a fact.
> 
> By "making" the poison it is referring to moderation. In the wrong quantities anything can be toxic, hence the "dose" part.


Here is the way Friar Lawrence put it in Romeo and Juliet: 


> Oh, mickle is the powerful grace that lies
> 
> In herbs, plants, stones, and their true qualities.
> 
> ...


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

im really disappointed by some of the responses here, if you ever have to deal with addiction maybe your response would be different. addiction is a very real disease and needs treatment. just because someone is poor (which im assuming these people are) and make bad choices doesn't mean they should be looked down upon. I didn't see where they were commiting any crime or hurt anyone, their just killing them selfs.. they need help.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

shwookie said:


> "the dose makes the posion", is a saying. not a fact.
> 
> By "making" the poison it is referring to moderation. In the wrong quantities anything can be toxic, hence the "dose" part.


My misunderstanding


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

ezbite said:


> im really disappointed by some of the responses here, if you ever have to deal with addiction maybe your response would be different. addiction is a very real disease and needs treatment. just because someone is poor (which im assuming these people are) and make bad choices doesn't mean they should be looked down upon. I didn't see where they were commiting any crime or hurt anyone, their just killing them selfs.. they need help.


I think you have it right here. Drugs are mainly a symptom of something else going on or missing. People look for comfort in food, sex, drugs and other things that they are missing on a level people who have their routine and self worth in order wouldn't understand. Not everyone comes up in a place of love discipline and understanding. Those people who look for comfort in strange places do it because home is not what it means to the fortunate.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

ezbite said:


> im really disappointed by some of the responses here, if you ever have to deal with addiction maybe your response would be different. addiction is a very real disease and needs treatment. just because someone is poor (which im assuming these people are) and make bad choices doesn't mean they should be looked down upon. I didn't see where they were commiting any crime or hurt anyone, their just killing them selfs.. they need help.


While the addiction itself does not have any consequences on anyone but the participant, the aftermath of the addiction does. 

I deal with a lot of drug intervention with my job and I would say about 90% of all thefts, burglaries, robberies, etc. stem from drug addiction of some kind. 

*A little insight about heroin.* Nobody wakes up on a Tuesday morning and decides, ah snap, you know what sounds swell? Heroin. It all derives from opiate prescription medications. Doctors and pharmacists prescribe people with highly addictive pain medications for months at alarming doses, then they just cut people off when they deem it necessary.

Now we have a problem. We have people with an addiction that may have began from a common injury like a car accident or a football injury. Some of these people aren't your stereotypical slum-lord junkies. This is middle-class, American suburbs. 

So we cut these people off of the medications with no intervention program or no knowledge to the consequences of addiction and throw them out on the street. Now these people will try to buy the drugs off the street to calm their addiction. These people will buy Oxytocin, or OC's for short, at $20 a pill on the street. 

At 2 hits a day at $20 a pop, we are now looking at an addiction that costs $1,960 a month to maintain. Now, this is where rock bottom comes in. People steal from families, they break and enter into abandoned houses to steal copper to scrap, I have even encountered a man who would steal from unlocked cars in the parking lot of a church while people were in attendance of a funeral. 

How long can one maintain this? The answer is until they have nothing. No family, no support, no home, no car, no job. Nothing. So how can they maintain this prescription habit? Heroin. Heroin gives the same effect of opiate prescription drug medications, but at a fraction of the cost.

The street value of heroin (black tar) is about $10 for a little more then two hits. So instead of spending $1,960 a month, addicts can now cuts their costs to $280 a month. 

Now, is it fair to judge one on their addiction alone? Absolutely not. It is a major issue in America today that needs to be addressed. However, I can judge a man by the actions he takes to feed the addiction. The violence, the deception, the things that a man (or woman) should never even dream of doing just to get a fix.

When I am pumping somebody's chest applying CPR because they are legally dead from a heroin overdose and the medics get there to administer Narcan (A nasal spray that gives a jolt of adrenaline to revive opiate overdose subjects) to revive these subjects, then they try to fist fight the people that helped them because they "took away their high." Then, yes, I can look down on those people. 

I have encountered women who have offered filthy sexual acts for a hit of a particular drug. I have encountered people stealing in the middle of the day in middle-class suburbs out of cars. I have encountered people robbing people at parks. I have encountered people shop lifting from stores, not for the merchandise itself, but to sell it for drugs. I have encountered people stealing electrical wire that was still live. I have encountered people poaching. I have encountered people jumping into people's cars while they were running in the morning to warm up and drive them to chop shops. All this, from drugs. 


The whole argument of: "Keep non-violent, drug using criminals out of prison" drives me insane. Where do you think the violence stems from? Not in all instances, but a vast majority comes from drugs! 

While I haven't seen "Krokodil" on the streets yet, I'm sure it is coming. People will inject anything into their body once their addiction is bad enough. 

Hopefully this gives a little hindsight.


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## zeppelin_2000 (Jul 2, 2006)

I'm not for illegal drugs but if they were legalized more control could happen.
And can be tracked somewhat better than no oversight at all.

Even though we still have abusers with legal drugs they do help many people with pain or other problems.

We will always have someone mixing things in basements for cash or selling black market legal drugs, you will never stop those type of people who don't care about human life over money.

The vastly over abused drugs/chemicals are common every day things you don't classify as drugs but surely are drugs of varying potency. 
And all of them can and have been used to the point of a overdose, how many aspirin have you or someone you have watched take 2-10 times the recommend dose ?

How many here abuse caffeine, Tylenol, alieve, aspirin, nasal spray, cough medicine, all alcoholic beverages, ect...

We are all addicted to something be it legal or illegal.

Being a recovering alcoholic now dry for over 25 years, I have found you can get addicted to anything
that you get comfort from.

You would be surprised how many around you are addicted to some kind of drug that you know nothing about, s. MANY are fully functioning people with a hidden problem.

I'm glad most people are willing to help us instead of the ones that would just outright kill us off as long as they aren't the ones that have to do the dirty work.

Yes you get high break the law you deserve the punishment! But because I had a bad childhood and turned to a drug to help me make it through it I should be treated the same as a murderer who may not even been on drugs I find to be very harsh treatment.

I smoke kill me, I over eat cause I love food kill me, I drink too many cans of pop kill me, if I was your wife-girlfriend-brother-mother-father-son-daughter-neighbor-coworker-???? Would YOU step up and kill me because I abused something?

Or would you try to help me?

I'm sorry for the folks that didn't need to read this to have compassion for others, we all sink or swim as a world race by our interactions with others every day.

Give me a break please think about what you say before you say it.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

Here's another thing to toss in. When Mom would have some episode like a fall or a UTI, I'd have to send her to the emergency room. The usual routine was to admit her to the hospital for 72 hours for Medicare specs, then send her off either to home, or a nursing home, depending on her condition. If sent back home, they'd give her a 90-day supply of the oxys and fentanyl patches.

Fine. But 30 - 50 days later there would be another episode and hospital trip, and another 90-day supply of the pain killers. So we were building up a surplus, and it was no one's job to say hey, you should still have some left from the last time.

I would set up her pills for the week on Monday mornings, this is what the pill organizer looked like.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

Don't get me wrong, an addict will do anything for their next fix (this I know from personal experience) I don't feel bad for repeat criminals, locking them up is the only way to sober them up. But do I wish death on someone because of their addiction?. Hell no.


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## vc1111 (Apr 13, 2004)

Ezbite, there are two types of people in this world when it comes.to this subject.... those who inherently understand what you are saying and those who don't and never will.

That is not a condemnation, its just a fact.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

Matulemj said:


> While the addiction itself does not have any consequences on anyone but the participant, the aftermath of the addiction does.
> 
> I deal with a lot of drug intervention with my job and I would say about 90% of all thefts, burglaries, robberies, etc. stem from drug addiction of some kind.
> 
> ...


If there was a different way of treating people besides criminalizing it and driving the risk and reward factor down for people selling it. Criminals taking advantage of others with a weakness for profit would go away. The current system isn't working


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

geoffoquinn said:


> My misunderstanding


No problem.


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## zeppelin_2000 (Jul 2, 2006)

Yes I know what your saying, that looks like my meds for the week.
And I've trimmed all I can do without, I have greater pain but choose to deal with it and get off the extra meds and side effects.

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## Cat Mangler (Mar 25, 2012)

imalt said:


> A drug addict is a little different than a smoker or alcoholic. I don't think the majority of smokers are robbing people to get their next fix. Maybe if this country shared my views it would be a better place instead of enabling these wastes of life to milk the system. But yes if someone has a problem it should be up to them and their family to pay for it not me.


 Not that I disagree with you're point to the full extent, but I feel cigarettes are a lot worse addiction than the things I've mistaken in the past as not a big deal. Being legal like alcohol and tobacco just makes it easier to be addicted. I've quit doing all the bad stuff I did in the past drug wise, yet cigarettes still plague me. 

Yes will power is a big factor, but a stress relief in certain situations can be almost irresistible. I gotta say also, the majority of cases of convenient store robberies involve the suspect taking off with booze and smokes. No need to take money for your fix when you can just get your fix at the robbery.

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## Cat Mangler (Mar 25, 2012)

Muskarp said:


> It's a poison as well as tobacco and alcohol, quit trying to make it sound ok to smoke. THC damages the brain. The smoke contains carcinogenic compounds.


Not saying its ok to ingest thc, but the carcinogins you inhale from smoking pot are no more lethal than getting a lung full of campfire smoke(providing the absence of chemicals like pesticides) unlike cigarettes which contain several chemicals and additives. 

Thc has not been proven to damage brain cells, unlike alcohol. In fact, your brain has receptors built specifically for this compound, as it is a cannabiniods which are naturally produced in your body and ingested in more natural and fully legal products people use than you'd think. 

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## Cat Mangler (Mar 25, 2012)

Matulemj said:


> While the addiction itself does not have any consequences on anyone but the participant, the aftermath of the addiction does.
> 
> I deal with a lot of drug intervention with my job and I would say about 90% of all thefts, burglaries, robberies, etc. stem from drug addiction of some kind.
> 
> ...


I agree with every thing you've stated except that part about street drug use stemming from prescription abuse. Many heroin addicts are turning to methodone clinics for a fix that comes free. I see these institutes as a enabler making millions off a huge social issue with intents of profit, not a cure. But then again, makes them no more guilty than the big drug companies which apply similar ethical deficiencies. 

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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

You want to compare. Teens start smoking and drinking because they are stupid and they just want to party. But the hard stuff is just the doctors fault? Sure it happens but its the exception not the rule. I see the drugged out photos in the news paper of people I went school with. Not any shock where they ended up. Their parents are the same way and no one eles in the family has the ability to raise the new set of crack babies. No jobs, all thieves, and the cycle continues. People are responsible for their own actions and I don't feel sorry for anyone who kills themselves. At least the damage stops there. Some peple just suck at life.


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## Talonman (Sep 12, 2013)

Cat Mangler said:


> Not saying its ok to ingest thc, but the carcinogins you inhale from smoking pot are no more lethal than getting a lung full of campfire smoke(providing the absence of chemicals like pesticides) unlike cigarettes which contain several chemicals and additives.
> 
> Thc has not been proven to damage brain cells, unlike alcohol. In fact, your brain has receptors built specifically for this compound, as it is a cannabiniods which are naturally produced in your body and ingested in more natural and fully legal products people use than you'd think.
> 
> Sent from my V8000_USA_Cricket using Ohub Campfire mobile app


+1 

I don't like when people selectively say this drug is bad, but look away on others.

Example: The old tv add about this is your brain on drugs.
They would lay a joint next to a heroin needle, as if they were the same thing.
Not in my book!

One will kill you, one won't.

Where is the prozac, beer, caffeine, and aspirin in the add too?
If you are going to take the stand that all drugs are bad, lets be sure to list them all.

I think they don't so kids wont realize that mom and dad take various drugs too.

I think people who get their prozac cut off cold turkey, are worse off that a dude who is out of THC.

Marijuana And Cancer: Scientists Find Cannabis Compound Stops Metastasis In Aggressive Cancers 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/marijuana-and-cancer_n_1898208.html

Soon this one will be legal i bet?

"A pair of scientists at California Pacific Medical Center in San Francisco has found that a compound derived from marijuana could stop metastasis in many kinds of aggressive cancer, potentially altering the fatality of the disease forever."

That is truly exciting.
My dad died of cancer my Sr year in high school.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

Cat Mangler said:


> I agree with every thing you've stated except that part about street drug use stemming from prescription abuse. Many heroin addicts are turning to methodone clinics for a fix that comes free. I see these institutes as a enabler making millions off a huge social issue with intents of profit, not a cure. But then again, makes them no more guilty than the big drug companies which apply similar ethical deficiencies.
> 
> Sent from my V8000_USA_Cricket using Ohub Campfire mobile app


It's not matter of opinion. It's a fact. How do you think people end up injecting themselves with a needle with a substance made in a garage? They don't go to a party on a Friday night and decide, heck yeah man! Shoot me up! I get to talk with heroin addicts on my job almost on a daily basis. Every one started using opiate prescriptions and turned to heroin because it's cheaper. OC's, percocet and klonopin are some of the ones I hear the most.

The methadone clinics are not how people start using. People abuse the clinics stating they want to get clean because they can't afford to get a fix. In some cases, they methadone when used properly helps people get off the drug.

Curious, how do you think heroin addicts start? I never said a crackhead started using because of opiates, I just said heroin.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

Over the years that Mom was on pain medication, doctors were becoming less willing to prescribe heavily. It really varied a lot from one doctor to another. Some took a pretty hard line on cutting her meds back, and she would be miserable until some other doctor saw her.

Her main problem was spinal stenosis, when her lower vertebrae started getting arthritic growth that pinched the spinal column and sent shooting pains down her legs. To overcome that pain, she had to be really doped up.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

If you are putting that mix in your veins you must not have much to live for anyhow.

Also: seems to be a lot of pot smokers on OGF! Watch out fellas, thats a GATEWAY drug... You'll be on the kroc before you know it!

People do all kinds of crazy stuff to escape reality and forget about their problems. I'm sure some can be helped. Some don't want help.

I just lost an uncle to alcoholism. 63 years young. The last year or so of his existence could be put on par with a krocodile user I suppose.. His liver and kidneys shut down to the point his legs swelled up and he couldnt use them. Bruises, bleeding, falls. It wasn't pretty. His brother had quit drinking about 15 years ago under doctors orders and is still in OK health. Not the greatest, but he's still alive.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Matulemj said:


> It's not matter of opinion. It's a fact. How do you think people end up injecting themselves with a needle with a substance made in a garage? They don't go to a party on a Friday night and decide, heck yeah man! Shoot me up! I get to talk with heroin addicts on my job almost on a daily basis. Every one started using opiate prescriptions and turned to heroin because it's cheaper. OC's, percocet and klonopin are some of the ones I hear the most.
> 
> The methadone clinics are not how people start using. People abuse the clinics stating they want to get clean because they can't afford to get a fix. In some cases, they methadone when used properly helps people get off the drug.
> 
> Curious, how do you think heroin addicts start? I never said a crackhead started using because of opiates, I just said heroin.


I experimented with all sorts of stuff growing up and never even SEEN heroin. Makes sense to already be addicted to want to go through the injections and all that. Pretty big leap from alcohol/nicotine/pot to shooting up...

Also: Krocodil is more prevalent in Russia due to the various sources of over the counter codeine which we don't really have here.. So I don't see it being as big as issue here. Meth on the other hand continues to be a big thorn in our side.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

True they are begining with Oxy's & perscription drugs are the problem here.
But here is the thing, the junkies never had a prescription. Down here they are starting on Oxy's in jr high and highschool. Teenage girls are having babies full of perscrption drugs. People are buying them off the street but it makes you wonder where all these perscriptions actually come from. How does an entire town and most of a county have a perscription problem. They are not innocent people who fell victim to their perscriptions, they are trash who are looking to get trashed. 

But its a dieing town and is being taken over by the kids of junkies who were kids of junkies and on it goes. They are chasing the few decent people and businesses left in town out. A big flood of the Ohio and Scioto is all that could clean it up at this point.

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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

One other thing *don't flush meds* because the sewage treatment can't get rid of them, they just go through to the streams.

Then you get crackhead flatheads stealing your stuff off the bank.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

FOSR said:


> One other thing *don't flush meds* because the sewage treatment can't get rid of them, they just go through to the streams.
> 
> Then you get crackhead flatheads stealing your stuff off the bank.


Good point.. Also couldn't help but think my buddy talking about putting some Deer Caine in his fav hunting spot was a bad idea as well.. Lord help us if the wildlife gets hip to the jive!


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## zeppelin_2000 (Jul 2, 2006)

FOSR said:


> Over the years that Mom was on pain medication, doctors were becoming less willing to prescribe heavily. It really varied a lot from one doctor to another. Some took a pretty hard line on cutting her meds back, and she would be miserable until some other doctor saw her.
> 
> Her main problem was spinal stenosis, when her lower vertebrae started getting arthritic growth that pinched the spinal column and sent shooting pains down her legs. To overcome that pain, she had to be really doped up.


Really feel for people in pain, I have 14 herniated disks sever spinal stenosis currently taking max doses of oxycontin, valium, flexeril, lyrica and others.
Believe me when the pain is at it's worst NOTHING relives it only makes it bearable.
Extensive nerve damage in my spine no fixes or operations will help. 
Everyone thinks they are superman when younger and lift things you shouldn't, pay for it when older.

I personally try not to take any meds and bear the pain as much as possible.
If everyone could or wanted to use drugs properly we would not need to ban any drug and all of them could help someone.

There will always be abusers of drugs, laws, common sense.

The only difference in a murder or your average Joe is one chooses to control himself and not act on rage, jealousy, money, power.

If we could all control our self's we would not have wars, starvation, and other things.
It's easy to get hooked but very hard to quit if you don't wish to.
Know people that had accidents that were put on pain killers and bang hooked for life.
Two had never been sick or hurt never in the hospital until there accidents. 

Life just gets in the way sometimes.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

rustyfish said:


> True they are begining with Oxy's & perscription drugs are the problem here.
> But here is the thing, the junkies never had a prescription. Down here they are starting on Oxy's in jr high and highschool. Teenage girls are having babies full of perscrption drugs. People are buying them off the street but it makes you wonder where all these perscriptions actually come from. How does an entire town and most of a county have a perscription problem. They are not innocent people who fell victim to their perscriptions, they are trash who are looking to get trashed.
> 
> But its a dieing town and is being taken over by the kids of junkies who were kids of junkies and on it goes. They are chasing the few decent people and businesses left in town out. A big flood of the Ohio and Scioto is all that could clean it up at this point.
> ...


Unfortunatly the supply chain goes up higher than any of us could imagine. These pharmaceutical companies make just as much if not more $ off the stet scripts thanthey do by drs writing them. I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but I am confident that they leak a large supply for illegal distribution and do it intentionally.

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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

jlami said:


> Unfortunatly the supply chain goes up higher than any of us could imagine. These pharmaceutical companies make just as much if not more $ off the stet scripts thanthey do by drs writing them. I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but I am confident that they leak a large supply for illegal distribution and do it intentionally.
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


I'd be more inclined to think in the US, it's shady doctors(or someone with an RX pad) and pharmacists than the manufacturers but what do I know. Other countries who knows. Not too sure of the controls other countries have in place, but I'm sure most are nothing like our own.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

I listened to an interview with this author recently - big pharma fighting to keep meth ingredients available over-the-counter



> In the past several years, lawmakers in 25 states have sought to make pseudoephedrinethe one irreplaceable ingredient in a shake-and-bake laba prescription drug. In all but twoOregon and Mississippithey have failed as the industry, which sells an estimated $605 million worth of pseudoephedrine-based drugs a year, has deployed all-star lobbying teams and campaign-trail tactics such as robocalls and advertising blitzes.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/meth-pseudoephedrine-big-pharma-lobby


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> I'd be more inclined to think in the US, it's shady doctors(or someone with an RX pad) and pharmacists than the manufacturers but what do I know. Other countries who knows. Not too sure of the controls other countries have in place, but I'm sure most are nothing like our own.


That happens too, its not just one way or the other. With the amount of pills that are readily available in large quantities to junkies it its unfathomable that there is just one way they are hitting the streets. For a dealer to have a few thousand pills on hand at a given time he is not simply writing his own scripts or seeing a shady dr. not to mention this would not be cost effective for said dealer because often times the street value is far less than the retail value that law abiding citizens are forced to pay. I mean the street value of an oxycontin is only between $6 and $8 per pill. 30 pills $120-$160, not to mention bulk discount. I know the script costs more than that!

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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

FOSR said:


> I listened to an interview with this author recently - big pharma fighting to keep meth ingredients available over-the-counter
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/meth-pseudoephedrine-big-pharma-lobby


I believe it. That stuff is in a lot of different products and mine of em worth a darn in my opinion. All that stuff is good for is giving me the jitters. And cooking meth apparently.


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## Cat Mangler (Mar 25, 2012)

I wasn't disputing the fact that prescription dependencies often lead to street drug usage, was merely stating it was not true in every case. I come from a family chocked full of addicts, so I've lived with these facts my whole life. My uncle ODed on heroine years before oxycotin was even on the market. 

And yes some people do just go to a party on Friday night and decide why not, shoot me up. My brother almost died from choking on his own vomit due to heroine OD and never touched OCs or other opiate derived pills a day in his life. He started doing it socially with friends, no dependencies from scripts.

I also did not say that methodone clinics cause addictions, I said many already addicts go to them for a free fix, instead of for rahab purposes. I also did not say a thing about crack so don't know what you mean there. 

Again, you are correct when saying that prescription abuse easily leads to street drug usage, no argument there. I was only stating that that scenario is not always the case. Many abuse street drugs before introduction to prescriptions. Take it from someone who was dumb enough to smoke opium when I was fourteen. 

Went to my friends to smoke pot and him and his older brother were smoking opium, and I asked to hit it on my own accord. Wasn't even influenced by peer pressure as they told me I shouldn't yet I insisted and even refused to share my pot unless they shared. Smoked that crap for another year before I was introduced me to oxy's. Quit when my uncle died from heroine and been smart enough to stay away since. I can say better than half my family anyways. 

Either way, wasn't trying to argue or P you off. Sorry if i did. I see a lot of your reports and believe you to be a very respectable fisherman. Just trying to say there are more ways than one to enter that dark dark world. Tight lines to ya sir!

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## Cat Mangler (Mar 25, 2012)

Cat Mangler said:


> @ Matulemj
> 
> I wasn't disputing the fact that prescription dependencies often lead to street drug usage, was merely stating it was not true in every case. I come from a family chocked full of addicts, so I've lived with these facts my whole life. My uncle ODed on heroine years before oxycotin was even on the market.
> 
> ...




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## bgrapala (Nov 1, 2008)

I have to say this is certainly one of the most interesting reads I've come across on here. As an addict (alcohol) myself, I can say that until the user takes control, the addiction comes first every time. Not that that's a surprise to anyone, but still. I can't imagine how low a person has to be to start shooting up a drug made with gasoline and red phosphorus, known to rot flesh. It does have to start somewhere though.


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## Matulemj (May 29, 2012)

Cat Mangler said:


> I wasn't disputing the fact that prescription dependencies often lead to street drug usage, was merely stating it was not true in every case. I come from a family chocked full of addicts, so I've lived with these facts my whole life. My uncle ODed on heroine years before oxycotin was even on the market.
> 
> And yes some people do just go to a party on Friday night and decide why not, shoot me up. My brother almost died from choking on his own vomit due to heroine OD and never touched OCs or other opiate derived pills a day in his life. He started doing it socially with friends, no dependencies from scripts.
> 
> ...




Nor was I. Your brother was definitely the exception. Sorry to hear about that. I wasn't trying to argue, I was genuinely interested because I have literally never heard any case like that. I know there are some out there, but I was definitely curious. I hope there is light at the end of tunnel to the "dark world." There are way too many people suffering.

Truth be told. The biggest drug dealers in America don't sell on the corner of a street with a neck and face tattoos, incarcerated most of their lives. The biggest drug dealers in America have PHDs.


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## Cat Mangler (Mar 25, 2012)

Matulemj said:


> Nor was I. Your brother was definitely the exception. Sorry to hear about that. I wasn't trying to argue, I was genuinely interested because I have literally never heard any case like that. I know there are some out there, but I was definitely curious. I hope there is light at the end of tunnel to the "dark world." There are way too many people suffering.
> 
> Truth be told. The biggest drug dealers in America don't sell on the corner of a street with a neck and face tattoos, incarcerated most of their lives. The biggest drug dealers in America have PHDs.


and they push it harder than any dealer in the world with the help of highly paid lobbyists like all big businesses in this country. Like old armstong sang, with maybe a little different meaning but, "what a wonderful world."


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## seethe303 (Dec 12, 2006)

M.Magis said:


> Who sat down one day and decided this was something they wanted to mix together in inject into themselves?


The gasoline or other scary ingredients are used in the conversion process from codeine to desomorphine. Its not like whoever making the drug is using these chemicals for funsies and their flesh eating properties.


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## jlami (Jan 28, 2011)

seethe303 said:


> The gasoline or other scary ingredients are used in the conversion process from codeine to desomorphine. Its not like whoever making the drug is using these chemicals for funsies and their flesh eating properties.


Oh, well that makes it all the better. Two for me please!

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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

bgrapala said:


> I have to say this is certainly one of the most interesting reads I've come across on here.....


i agree. Very interesting but at the same time sad what people go through.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

I graduated from high school in 1977. There was pot, hash, various uppers and downers (does anyone else remember big pinks?) coke, a few forms of acid, and of course alcohol. Does anyone even do LSD anymore?

These days I read about drugs in news stories and I have no idea what some of those drugs are. I'm just glad that I went through my youthful experimentation phase before there was anything like that available to me. At least back then, no one's flesh was rotting off. We just had punks wearing coats in class, and falling out of their seats.


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## treytd32 (Jun 12, 2009)

working in an ICU we get updates on new drugs etc. going around and this was one mentioned sometime last year. Hopefully it doesn't take hold as heroine is already cheap enough but with such an intense high I'm sure there are more than a couple idiots out there willing to sacrifice a limb, or two and their life in order to get their fix.


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## Bonecrusher (Aug 7, 2010)

What is going to happen with this drug is it will sold as Heroin. Most of the users won't even know what they are shooting up with (not that they do now). I really hope it does not hit as hard as it has Russia. 

This all seems to relate to creating the text-book Zombie. You have people doing Bath Salts and eating other people, this is the icing on the cake with the rotting flesh. 

Anyone ever think the Zombie Apocolypse would come from drug use? A lot of drug users already show the same behaviors as a 
'Zombie"

I can personally attest to the situation. Spending hours and days focused on only finding another buzz. Kicking a drug addiction is damn near impossible. 

In reference to Smokers. Quitting smoking is much harder than quitting a cocaine addiction.


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