# Its official...I suck at steelhead fishing!



## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

Went to the rocky with my buddy this morning, good for him first ever steelhead on a fly egg pattern! Great bright fish 10 minutes into fishing. Rest of the day he had two fish on but they threw him the steelhead dance and tossed the fly.

Me in the other had tried both fly rigs and cured egg sacks under the float( took both my noodle rod and fly rod)....NOTHING!

Fish are being caught all around me! I am a watcher. I feel good for them, but this is getting old. Very nice young man comes in with a pinner and lands 10 fish in one hour! Gotta love being him. I am fishing the same drifts as him. We are at the same float depths.

Here is my analogy:
Two guys fish next to each other, one uses cured eggs and one uses fresh eggs he milked yesterday....guess what I was using! My question for those here that can help me is there that big a difference in fresh eggs vs. cured eggs? What am I doing wrong. I am weighting my line getting the indicator to dead drift, I am mending the line to get a good drift, aI am changing heights....I just can't catch a steelhead to save my life.....ok done whining hope you all can shed some light so I can get back out there.


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## Rayman (Jan 22, 2011)

Going tomorrow if you want I'll show you my two cents worth


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

Rayman said:


> Going tomorrow if you want I'll show you my two cents worth


Rayman: THANKYOU for the offer, but I have this pesky thing called work next week! I do have a week off after Friday if the offer extends out to next week. Would really appreciate advice from someone who knows what they are doing....thanks again!


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## MadMax1 (Aug 27, 2012)

Here is my analogy:
Two guys fish next to each other, one uses cured eggs and one uses fresh eggs he milked yesterday....guess what I was using! My question for those here that can help me is there that big a difference in fresh eggs vs. cured eggs? What am I doing wrong. I am weighting my line getting the indicator to dead drift, I am mending the line to get a good drift, aI am changing heights....I just can't catch a steelhead to save my life.....ok done whining hope you all can shed some light so I can get back out there.[/QUOTE]

Bait may be a part of it. But, I'd say it's likely that the person fishing next to you had a better position in the hole. In addition, maybe slight variations in their rig that you may not be picking up on.

A good friend of mine got me into steelheading about 12 years back. The first few years I mimicked what he did, or thought i was, and I maybe caught one or two as I watched him take multiple fish many days. It was frusterating...Over time my numbers increased, i found details that cumulatively led to more success. Details I was unaware of. 

Keep at it and you'll start catching
Then analyze why you caught one, and what you did right. Then add on to that system, rather than being frustrated about not catching 10.


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## MadMax1 (Aug 27, 2012)

And then the learning curve when I switched to fly rod a couple years back... now I do as well as I ever did without even screwing around with bait...which is nice.


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## Rayman (Jan 22, 2011)

rustyolddad said:


> Rayman: THANKYOU for the offer, but I have this pesky thing called work next week! I do have a week off after Friday if the offer extends out to next week. Would really appreciate advice from someone who knows what they are doing....thanks again!


Yep pm me when you can fish.


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## Rayman (Jan 22, 2011)

Presentation, presentation, presentation. ...that took me some hard knocks before I caught on. The offering has to look natural for what ever bait/fly/lure/jig/bead/yarn etc you use. Each has a different programs to achive the correct drift and or swing. Stop in at Erie Outfitters and ask Craig Lewis for some tips. He's always sharing. YouTube has endless examples that can be replayed on the stream. Most important learning how to read the water environment your standing in front of. It's nice to narrow down the pieces you should spend your PRECIOUS time casting to.


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

Rustyolddad send me a pm of the exact details of the rig that your using. Steel heading is all about fine details. You may think that your doing exactly what the other successful person is doing but your probably not. When I got into it 25 years ago I did not have help from an experienced steel header or the Internet for help. It was all trial and error which made for a slow frustrating learning curve. I'm sure that I could help you speed up your learning curve.


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

MadMax1 said:


> Here is my analogy:
> Two guys fish next to each other, one uses cured eggs and one uses fresh eggs he milked yesterday....guess what I was using! My question for those here that can help me is there that big a difference in fresh eggs vs. cured eggs? What am I doing wrong. I am weighting my line getting the indicator to dead drift, I am mending the line to get a good drift, aI am changing heights....I just can't catch a steelhead to save my life.....ok done whining hope you all can shed some light so I can get back out there.


Bait may be a part of it. But, I'd say it's likely that the person fishing next to you had a better position in the hole. In addition, maybe slight variations in their rig that you may not be picking up on.

A good friend of mine got me into steelheading about 12 years back. The first few years I mimicked what he did, or thought i was, and I maybe caught one or two as I watched him take multiple fish many days. It was frusterating...Over time my numbers increased, i found details that cumulatively led to more success. Details I was unaware of.

Keep at it and you'll start catching
Then analyze why you caught one, and what you did right. Then add on to that system, rather than being frustrated about not catching 10.[/QUOTE]
Thanks MadMax1...I will pay attention to more details! I appreciate the very detailed desription. I will get it sooner or later, just not getting any younger here!


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

Rayman said:


> Presentation, presentation, presentation. ...that took me some hard knocks before I caught on. The offering has to look natural for what ever bait/fly/lure/jig/bead/yarn etc you use. Each has a different programs to achive the correct drift and or swing. Stop in at Erie Outfitters and ask Craig Lewis for some tips. He's always sharing. YouTube has endless examples that can be replayed on the stream. Most important learning how to read the water environment your standing in front of. It's nice to narrow down the pieces you should spend your PRECIOUS time casting to.


Rayman I appreciate the advice! I know Craig and will see if I can bend his ear...he always so busy when I go in there!


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

MadMax1 said:


> And then the learning curve when I switched to fly rod a couple years back... now I do as well as I ever did without even screwing around with bait...which is nice.


That would be awesome! If I ever get the roll cast worked out....I may try and do the same!


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

You have a PM......it's a long read.


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## lunker23 (Jun 28, 2013)

Rusty..... I can get you dialed in with the roll cast in 10 minutes. Just remember, let the rod do the work. You have to get a nice D loop with keeping a load in the rod. Nice and easy continuous motion.
Not sure if you've ever checked out the learning center on the Orvis website, but Pete Kutzer is an awesome instructor. You can also find his videos on Utube. 
Anyways, I'll be on the Rock this Friday if we don't get hit with a ton of rain. Also heading out to Sunnybrook Trout Club on Saturday which is an awesome place to learn various casting methods. Let me know if you're interested........ Lefty


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

lunker23 said:


> Rusty..... I can get you dialed in with the roll cast in 10 minutes. Just remember, let the rod do the work. You have to get a nice D loop with keeping a load in the rod. Nice and easy continuous motion.
> Not sure if you've ever checked out the learning center on the Orvis website, but Pete Kutzer is an awesome instructor. You can also find his videos on Utube.
> Anyways, I'll be on the Rock this Friday if we don't get hit with a ton of rain. Also heading out to Sunnybrook Trout Club on Saturday which is an awesome place to learn various casting methods. Let me know if you're interested........ Lefty


Thanks so much I sent you a PM.


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

Flathead76 said:


> You have a PM......it's a long read.


I must tell you THANKS in public. The time you put in to helping a complete stranger is admirable! Its a small book.....I will read, reread and get back with you, but many thanks are owed!!


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

rustyolddad said:


> I must tell you THANKS in public. The time you put in to helping a complete stranger is admirable! Its a small book.....I will read, reread and get back with you, but many thanks are owed!!


Post up a picture when you catch your first steelhead. That will be thanks enough.


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

Flathead76 said:


> Post up a picture when you catch your first steelhead. That will be thanks enough.


Well said!


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## Flowie (Jul 2, 2015)

rustyolddad said:


> Went to the rocky with my buddy this morning, good for him first ever steelhead on a fly egg pattern! Great bright fish 10 minutes into fishing. Rest of the day he had two fish on but they threw him the steelhead dance and tossed the fly.
> 
> Me in the other had tried both fly rigs and cured egg sacks under the float( took both my noodle rod and fly rod)....NOTHING!
> 
> ...


Riverwater cured eggs will outfish anything for steelhead.


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## lunker23 (Jun 28, 2013)

Flathead76 said:


> Post up a picture when you catch your first steelhead. That will be thanks enough.


If we end up going Friday, Rusty will be posting pictures of Steel 
I have a few spots that just about guarantee fish. Still, presentation is a must, but once you get a nice swing or drift, it's on like Donkey Kong. 
I'm not a professional guide, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night......


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## MadMax1 (Aug 27, 2012)

rustyolddad said:


> That would be awesome! If I ever get the roll cast worked out....I may try and do the same!


I've developed a cast where if im going for distance, at the end of my drift I'll strip some back in, roll cast upstream, then pull it off the water using that spriningy tension into a short back cast and then shoot the line out slightly upstream, mend and begin a new drift, sometimes stripping a bit more floating line off the spool to extend my drift . The weight of the indicator and split shot help this.... dunno maybe it's some kind of chuck n duck, but I don't have a crazy amount of weight on... admittedly, I've just developed casting techniques on my 10'6" one hander that works for how I want to fish steel. Hybrid methods of traditional fly and things I've found that work. A lot of sidearm, backhand, etc... casting under overhanging trees and such.


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

MadMax1 said:


> I've developed a cast where if im going for distance, at the end of my drift I'll strip some back in, roll cast upstream, then pull it off the water using that spriningy tension into a short back cast and then shoot the line out slightly upstream, mend and begin a new drift, sometimes stripping a bit more floating line off the spool to extend my drift . The weight of the indicator and split shot help this.... dunno maybe it's some kind of chuck n duck, but I don't have a crazy amount of weight on... admittedly, I've just developed casting techniques on my 10'6" one hander that works for how I want to fish steel. Hybrid methods of traditional fly and things I've found that work. A lot of sidearm, backhand, etc... casting under overhanging trees and such.


So MadMAx1: if I read this right you are using a single handed fly rod...you have a strike indicator and jig? You let the drift come past you down stream and then use the extended line now at your back/side then use that taunt line to rollcast upstream. Then a sort of spey cast which rips the line off the water using tension to load the rod and give you some more distance?


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## MadMax1 (Aug 27, 2012)

I suppose that is somewhat correct as using the water as an anchor is a concept in spey. The roll just put my rig in position to pick up off the water and shoot, unless I can hit my target w a roll only. 

I have fished jigs on a fly rod, but usually im fishing egg patterns and single use streamers I tie for dead drifting - I don't like spending time tying flies that I will inevitably loose, but they are deadly effective. I'll weight w staggered shot.


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## lunker23 (Jun 28, 2013)

Most roll casts will use the friction of the water to help load the rod. The key is keeping the load so you can get a nice roll cast. 
I would be very difficult to get a good roll cast if your line wasn't in contact with the water surface. 
Just saying


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## MadMax1 (Aug 27, 2012)

lunker23 said:


> Most roll casts will use the friction of the water to help load the rod. The key is keeping the load so you can get a nice roll cast.
> I would be very difficult to get a good roll cast if your line wasn't in contact with the water surface.
> Just saying


This is true Lunker... I fish many spots i can't roll out the distance I need, and have not much room to false cast. So the hybrid method of sorts I've generated.


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

OK I have to thank everybody on this site! Especially lunker and flathead. For getting me some advice that definitely helped me land my first steelhead today. Was a great day on the Rocky River I'd like to tell you the fish was 36 inches long but however big it was it was awesome


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## jjshbetz11 (Oct 25, 2010)

look up formula for figuring out weight of steelhead(I forget) use your rod for measuring. Then just take pic and measure once home.


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

jjshbetz11 said:


> look up formula for figuring out weight of steelhead(I forget) use your rod for measuring. Then just take pic and measure once home.


I never even thought of that, great idea


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## kapposgd (Apr 10, 2012)

Nice job man, congrats


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## lunker23 (Jun 28, 2013)

Now get that picture printed out, throw it in a nice frame and put it on your nightstand. Also, doesn't hurt to use it as your wallpaper on your PC. 
These are normal things to do, right?
LOL..... Congrats....


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## freshwaterexperience (May 23, 2014)

Ok guys dumb question never steelhead fished ever but are the steelhead that run in your rivers raised in a hatchery? I've heard yes but have a hard time believing that


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## ejsell (May 3, 2012)

freshwaterexperience said:


> Ok guys dumb question never steelhead fished ever but are the steelhead that run in your rivers raised in a hatchery? I've heard yes but have a hard time believing that


Raised no, hatched yes. They dump them in the tribs at a very early stage and they grow up out in the lake.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

lunker23 said:


> Now get that picture printed out, throw it in a nice frame and put it on your nightstand. Also, doesn't hurt to use it as your wallpaper on your PC.
> These are normal things to do, right?
> LOL..... Congrats....


Thanks Lunker, now I need to get my fly game together as the fish will start moving into fast water, still hoping we can meet up on the river sometime soon!


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## jjshbetz11 (Oct 25, 2010)

Get out on the rivers quick, times a running out


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

Congrats! After landing it what I PMed you probably made a little more sence. BTW you didn't have to thank me on the open forum. The picture was thanks enough. Once it really starts clicking you can feel free to pay it forward to someone else who might be struggling and send them a PM. That's what this site is all about.


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## lunker23 (Jun 28, 2013)

rustyolddad said:


> Thanks Lunker, now I need to get my fly game together as the fish will start moving into fast water, still hoping we can meet up on the river sometime soon!


I was actually on the river all day yesterday and surprised we didn't run into each other. Though I hoofed it to get away from other anglers because I hate people. LOL, just kidding. Went off the beaten path to try some new areas and did fairly well.
We'll have to hook up so you can give me some pointers


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## rustyolddad (Aug 12, 2014)

lunker23 said:


> I was actually on the river all day yesterday and surprised we didn't run into each other. Though I hoofed it to get away from other anglers because I hate people. LOL, just kidding. Went off the beaten path to try some new areas and did fairly well.
> We'll have to hook up so you can give me some pointers


There were many anglers out yesterday, but at least it was spread out. My advice will be do whatever I am not doing and you will probably do well! I will shoot you a message sometime I am heading out. I am trying to get educated on fly line I think my inexpensive big box store line is causing me issues!


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## lunker23 (Jun 28, 2013)

What weight rod are you using for Steel? I'm asking because I may have some line in my stock pile of stuff....
Actually, PM me and we can discuss what you currently have and what you need.


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