# my new 300y deer gun



## Ring (Dec 7, 2013)

ive hunted pistol, 60-70 yards, shot gun to 100, but this year i decided to rethink inlines... 

did some research on picked up a cheap CVA Wolf and some 350gr hornady FPB's

these will still expand at 800fps, with the MV im getting, im still at 1050 at 300y

mounted a 2x7 mil dot and took it to the range to test and was getting 1.2" at 100y with my load..

with that accuracy and distance, i have no reason to hunt with anything else now.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I have heard good reports on the FPB's especially as compared with their primary competition the Powerbelts

Obviously you know your guns and already know that at 300 yds that load will be over 4' low with a 145 yd zero and over 20" drift with a 90 degree 10 MPH cross wind. That is all contingent of course on whether you verified velocity with the white Hots and that they are actually getting you to the 1600 FPS area. 

You may have the skill set to pull off shots out to 300 yds on a consistent basis but the average hunter will not, so I hope someone doesn't run out and try and duplicate your setup thinking that they now are 300 yard capable. It is not quite that easy, as you already know


Hope you kill a big one


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## Ring (Dec 7, 2013)

cornoed and worked up in my ballistic app... 

i do groundhogs at 800+ all summer, so 300 on a deer is a chip shot. 

also, on the side, i teach Precision rifle instruction in wadworth ohio, out to 900y


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Anybody can have pictures of pretty guns

Like I said your skill set is pretty obvious, that was why I thought it important to point out that the 300 yd capability was much more the shooter, and less the weapon.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

Here's a pic of my new 900 horsepower drag racer!








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j/k....good luck!


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

Wow! You're shooting a 350gr bullet and still have a velocity of 1050fps at 300 yards? What's your powder charge? I gotta figure it's 150gr. All I know is 100gr kicks me pretty good behind a 245gr bullet. Of course, I'm shooting Hodgdon 777 and, according to their numbers, that's equivalent to about 120gr of regular black powder. And I'm not familiar with the Hornady FPB's. I also figure the "PB" part of the designation refers, in some way, to pure lead? Otherwise, why such expansion at such slow velocities?


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## Rabbeye (Oct 28, 2013)

I have shot a muzzleloader for several years now. No doubt they will out shoot most slug guns at 100 yds plus. Farthest I ever killed a deer was 167 yds Probably more luck than skill, it was facing me and hit in the neck right below the head dropping it on the spot. Can't imagine 300 yds with a muzzleloader, maybe in the hands of an expert but I would need to see it. Too many variables in the field compared to a range. 300 yds is a long shot for the vast majority using a high powered rifle. Agin possible, but very very few have the skill set. Hopefully not many try this.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

buckeyebowman said:


> Wow! You're shooting a 350gr bullet and still have a velocity of 1050fps at 300 yards? What's your powder charge? I gotta figure it's 150gr. All I know is 100gr kicks me pretty good behind a 245gr bullet. Of course, I'm shooting Hodgdon 777 and, according to their numbers, that's equivalent to about 120gr of regular black powder. And I'm not familiar with the Hornady FPB's. I also figure the "PB" part of the designation refers, in some way, to pure lead? Otherwise, why such expansion at such slow velocities?


He should be getting close to 1600 FPS with 100 gr charge, that would put it around the 1050 FPS at 300.

The Hornady FPB's a full bore size bullet that you shoot without a sabot, much like a Powerbelt except the FPB's actually work well and they are not all lead.

Rabbeye,

Depends on the shooter most of the time or in my case my gun does the work for me. I shoot a custom 45 cal smokeless muzzleloader that makes a 300 yd shot really pretty easy.


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## Rabbeye (Oct 28, 2013)

Lundy ever kill a deer at 300 yds with it? Sounds like your equipment is far superior to the average. Off the rack guns just aren't capable of this in average hands regardless of loads. They may shot that far but most hunters can't hit that far.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Mushijobah said:


> Here's a pic of my new 900 horsepower drag racer!
> 
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> 
> ...


lmao, too funny


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## Ring (Dec 7, 2013)

the have a high BC, so they hold there speeds well.. will try some 300 when i get a few

http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-350-gr-FPB/


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## Ring (Dec 7, 2013)

Rabbeye said:


> Lundy ever kill a deer at 300 yds with it? Sounds like your equipment is far superior to the average. Off the rack guns just aren't capable of this in average hands regardless of loads. *They may shot that far but most hunters can't hit that far.*


its not magic.. i teach people how to do it all the time... we shoot 10" plates at 900y

the problem is "most" hunters are lucky if they take their gun out once a year to "sight" it in...
im out 2 to 3 times a week all summer long. shooting in high winds, rain and heat..

if im not hunting, im practicing.. if im not practicing, im testing... ive seen guys shooting 12" plates at 500y with muzzleloaders.. if i wanted to invest in the gun to get those speeds, i would have no issues taking a deer shot at that, but i dont hunt deer for sport or fun, just meat in the freezer...

so i wanted to get a gun and bullet combo that would be good at reasonable distances at the farms i hunt.. and is CHEAP as i could make it..

the rifle in the pic i posted above "AIAE MK3" as you see it, is about 8 or 9000$.. thats my "work" / fun/ competition/ varmit gun...


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Rabbeye said:


> Lundy ever kill a deer at 300 yds with it? Sounds like your equipment is far superior to the average. Off the rack guns just aren't capable of this in average hands regardless of loads. They may shot that far but most hunters can't hit that far.



Nope, I can barely see that far anymore, haven't ever needed to and hope I never do. It would require perfect conditions for me to ever take a 300 yd shot at a deer with my MZ and I can't really imagine a scenario where I would want or need to. I know where the bullet hits at 300 no problem just too many variables in the field for me to want to risk a wounded deer. In over 40 years of deer hunting I just don't remember a deer standing at 300 yds and thinking that I wish I could shoot it. I do remember a bunch at 150 - 225 yds however and that is why I have the gun I have and I have no hesitation with that shot.

Because I am a little less shooter I need to be a little more hunter.

You are right also these guns are not off the self performance guns.


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## supercanoe (Jun 12, 2006)

If you don't hunt because you enjoy the experience then you might as well go to the store and buy your meat. It would be cheaper. Long shots off a bench aren't the same as long shots in the field at a living target.


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## Ring (Dec 7, 2013)

i dont find getting up before the sun to freeze my ass of in a blind "fun"... for me, "fun" making the shot..
i varmit all summer, i dont find it "fun" shooting under 300y... for me, "fun" is the long shots..

and i never shoot from a bench... anyone that shoots from a bench is learning nothing but bad habits...

and i shoot "living targets" 2 to 3 times a week 4 to 6 hours a day all summer long.. and have kills on video out to 882y, 1/2 mile

Video deleted for langauge


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

We get it, you are very much more a shooter, and a very good one (you have made that fact abundantly clear), and very much less a hunter.


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

and in your own words its much more about ego and not so much humility.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Ring (Dec 7, 2013)

ostbucks98 said:


> and in your own words its much more about ego and not so much humility.
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app


crack much?


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

Most of the "off the rack" modern inlines will shoot @ 250 yards effectively and consistently. Unfortunately it takes more than 5 or 10 shots the weekend prior to season opener to get there and you usually can't do it with the bullets and scope that came in the bubble wrap with the gun.

Those cheap inlines will put just about any shotgun to shame at range but very few people actually spend the time and money to get the best results. 

Plan on spending as much as you did for the gun on an optic. You'll easily spend as much or more as you did on the gun for bullet, primer and powder experimentation. And the only thing that will make your loading technique consistent is a whole lot of practice actually shooting the gun.

The guys that don't do this are the ones forever doomed to shotgun like accuracy at 100 yards. They'll settle for their 4" groups @ 100 yards and critique the ethics of someone shooting the same gun at 300 yards. Yes some guns are junk and some shooters lack the skill but very few guns actually are junk and very few people actually lack the skill.

I have trouble making these points when I try to convince people that pistol caliber rifles are acceptable. We've been deer hunting with single shot high powered rifles in Ohio for decades. They just don't use a brass container.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

I agree with most of Buckeye Dan's points.....I have a handful of MZ rifles and I don't shoot the same loads out of any of them actually. All mine are "off the shelf" other than optics. It takes some time and certainly money (MZ has gotten quite expensive!) to figure our what bullet and load your rifle "likes". I shoot the exact same Barnes bullet out of 2 rifles - different manufacturers. One rifle loves 2 white hots while the other like 100 grains of 777. Toss 2 white hots in that rifle and you lose 2 inches inside 100 yards...it just doesn't like that load.

I have a very cheap $200 CVA that punches the paper really well out to 150 yards (2 inches at 150). I've never shot it further than 150, but it performs well.

As for outperforming shotguns...I'd say not so fast. Just as MZ have progressed so to have bullets for shotguns. I shoot .12 Winchester Partition Gold sabots at 1900+ fps(the old ones not the new lowered powered 1600 fps ones) from an Ithaca Deerslayer toped with a high quality Leuphold scope. This set up touches holes at 75 yards - just did it at the cabin. I can shoot to 200 yards with nice groups all day with plenty over the min footlbs of energey for deer at 200. I've shot exactly 1 deer with it - only because the gun belonged to my father and I wanted to harvest a deer for sentimental reasons. Now I just punch targets with it and bring it to the cabin as a backup in case something happens to the MZ.

I know Lundy says he hunts a very large open field area with very long shot opportunities, but most OH deer are killed within 100 yards anyway. All this extended range is much ado about nothing for 99% of deer hunters. I'm not dismissing the great performance and accuracy - it all helps make us better.....just saying the vast majority of the time OH deer hunters don't need anything outside 100 yards. Heck, we shoot most of our deer within 75 yards even during firearms seasons. An old round ball and patch would do the trick!


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

Fish-N-Fool, it's just semantics. I don't consider a shotgun that utilizes a rifled barrel with a sabot rifle bullet to actually be a shotgun. At that point it is a breech loading rifle that utilizes a plastic/brass hybrid container and has been converted from a shotgun since it no longer functions properly with "shot".

If I take a 250 grain bullet and wrap it in plastic and shove it down the "muzzle" of my gun on top of a charge that will allow that bullet to travel 1800FPS from the muzzle, that's OK.

If I take a 250 grain bullet and wrap it in plastic and shove it into a plastic/brass hybrid container sitting on top of a charge that will allow that bullet to travel 1800FPS from the muzzle of my rifled barrel "shotgun" that is also OK.

If I take a 250 grain bullet, discard the plastic and shove it into an all brass container sitting on top of a charge that will allow that bullet to travel 1800FPS from the muzzle of my "pistol caliber rifle", well...You can't do that! Presumably because it is a "rifle" without the namesake protection of "muzzle loading" or "shotgun" or even "pistol" at that point. Ballistic comparison magically becomes irrelevant. 

Semantics.


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## Fish-N-Fool (Apr 12, 2004)

Dan - I'm following you and I agree with you. I've long thought the reasoning was that not near as many folks will hunt with MZ rifles, even in-lines and the fact you only get a single shot. I've shot the in-lines for many years and they weren't popular at all 20 years ago. Now that is changing. I do totally agree with your point and you're right - you can get high performance today out of any of the firearms.


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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

Ring, nice set up-both of them. I respect your abilities and desire to earn the meat in your freezer rather than buying it. I would love to learn to shoo that effectively.


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## Mad-Eye Moody (May 27, 2008)

Great rig. Good luck with it!

I think a point that is danced around a lot but not clearly stated enough, even though Lundy was plain about it, is the effective range of a weapon is only partially determined by science and physics. It is also determined by the user of the weapon!

That rifle pictures in this thread is a 300 yard weapon for its owner, but would probably be a 150 yd weapon for me!


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## buckeye dan (Jan 31, 2012)

Mad-Eye Moody said:


> Great rig. Good luck with it!
> 
> I think a point that is danced around a lot but not clearly stated enough, even though Lundy was plain about it, is the effective range of a weapon is only partially determined by science and physics. It is also determined by the user of the weapon!
> 
> That rifle pictures in this thread is a 300 yard weapon for its owner, but would probably be a 150 yd weapon for me!


Don't sell yourself short Mad-Eye Moody. Barring any physical or medical limitations, there is enough technology to overcome just about anything.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfpZjTOyiFA[/ame]


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