# When did times change



## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

Watching the news they were showing young men walking the halls in school with hats on, this was definitely a no-no when I was in school.
This made me think, as growing up it was always required for us men to remove our hats when entering any building.

What happened and when, or is my memory failing me?


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## fedora4me (May 31, 2014)

The left has been undermining social norms for over 60 years. Where have you been hiding? 
To speak of a hat, in the face of all that has been lost is akin to addressing the blood stain on a shirt and ignoring the bullet hole which created the blood stain.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Ha, that's just the tip of the ice berg!


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

Society in general has been on a fast spiral down for a long long time. When I was growing up you got your but blistered with a belt for what kids do today ( my butt wore out more than one of my dads belts  ). OMG you go to jail for it now, while rapist, murderers and drug dealers walk the street because they have more rights than the honest citizen.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Redheads said:


> Watching the news they were showing young men walking the halls in school with hats on, this was definitely a no-no when I was in school.
> This made me think, as growing up it was always required for us men to remove our hats when entering any building.
> 
> What happened and when, or is my memory failing me?


Next time you're out eating at say...a fast food restaurant, take a look around at the adult men that have their hats on at the table eating with their kids sitting next to them. Never used to see that either. 
Like father...like son!!!



ress said:


> Ha, that's just the tip of the ice berg!


You got that right!!!


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

Are we really going to rant about wearing hats inside when youve got the majority of children today are raise by cell phones and video games instead of there parents.


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## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

DHower08 said:


> Are we really going to rant about wearing hats inside when youve got the majority of children today are raise by cell phones and video games instead of there parents.


In today's world, there is a long list of things that may bother people and this happens to be the one I decided to talk about today.

You have to start somewhere and respect isn't a bad place to start


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## bountyhunter (Apr 28, 2004)

it all started one day when they took the paddle out of schools.


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## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

bountyhunter said:


> it all started one day when they took the paddle out of schools.


...and God.

BTW.....I have no problem seeing folks wearing baseball hats in pubs, bar food spots and general casual dining places. I often keep my baseball hat on when eating in those places. Wearing one in a business casual class or fine food restaurant, however, is not proper IMO.


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

Religion does not belong in schools. What does though is teachers that are strict and don't put up with the way kids act these days. If most the teachers and parents would discipline children they would behave like we had to. I run a pretty tight ship with my son and besides the normal stuff kids get introuble over he knows what will get his butt busted


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## loweman165 (May 15, 2015)

Idk for me I have a bigger problem with the complete lack of respect for elders and zero work ethic. That being said, my boys know better that to wear a hat at our table.


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## ducknut141 (Apr 26, 2017)

God needs to be put back into everything he was taken from. Respect for others in general is gone in most people and not just young ones.


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

ducknut141 said:


> God needs to be put back into everything he was taken from. Respect for others in general is gone in most people and not just young ones.


Taking God out away from our society, ESPECIALLY our schools was just one sign of how our society has been on a down hill slide for years now. Respect and accountability is all but nonexistent.


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

DHower08 said:


> Religion does not belong in schools. What does though is teachers that are strict and don't put up with the way kids act these days. If most the teachers and parents would discipline children they would behave like we had to. I run a pretty tight ship with my son and besides the normal stuff kids get introuble over he knows what will get his butt busted


if parents wont teach there children about god then I think school is a good place to start. we had god when I went to school and I believe it helped a lot. at least we were taught to be kind to others. as for our schools disciplining kids. what are they supposed to do make them stand in the corner with there nose in a circle? and what can they do if the kid refuses? when they took punishment out of the schools they opened up a whole new can of worms. and most parents aren't any better. if kids did the things they get by with today back then they could look forward to a hickory switch or a nice paddle. I for one got a few of both and didnt like it at all. if we had god and whooping's back in school today maybe all our prisons and jails wouldnt be over crowded. school might not be the best place to teach about god but if it helps our children grow up with a few more values then why not?
sherman


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

When they built the Astrodome back in the 60's and baseball prayers started wearing their hats indoors, that ended the stigma of not wearing a hat indoors... And here we are...


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## Popspastime (Apr 1, 2014)

I must admit, my generation dropped the ball. Dropped it by not passing down what and how we were taught. Respect, Religion, Accountability, Fundamentals, all have been lost between then and now. Raising a family any more seems to be a burden instead of an important responsibility. These kids today have no idea what history they've missed in the past, and no idea what it took this country to get (carefully thinking) where it's at. So much has changed in the past 60 years or so that will never be seen again and they missed it or know nothing about it. The parents never instilled the fear of talking back and acting up like ours did, that teaches respect and discipline.
The schools... forget it, they lost it.


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## pawcat (Oct 24, 2011)

The great rise of divorces and single parenting and lack of religion since the 70's has this country going the wrong way... 
It's to late....the future cant recover!!!


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Lmbo the older generation is ALWAYS better. My father talked about the younger generstion,his father talked about the younger generstion,and his father talked about the younger generation. Anymore I just let it go in one ear and out another.
Imo it's my job to teach my children about God if I want to teach my children about god(and we do). And when they're old enuff to make the decision on there own,my wife and I will let them make that decision themselves. Imo its us as parents job to discipline our children so that when they get to school they know how to behave. Not the teachers job. They are paid to educate. If my kid is doing wrong in school then inform me,an my wife and I will determine how to punish my kids.bye this I'm not saying schools shouldn't punish kids. I dont get how a grown adult thinks it's right to put there hands on a child that's not even theres. My grandpa was about as old school as it gets,but he stood up to these types of teachers for his kids and his kids friends. He always said if a parent has to lay a hand on his kid,then they are doing something wrong. That's not to say a little kid dont need a little swat on the butt now and then. But imo there are lines you dont cross with kids. After all they're just kids. We're the adults.
Lol and I'm guilty of wearing my hat to dinner from time to time. But I dont consider myself a worst person for it.


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## snagless-1 (Oct 26, 2014)

I'ts affecting everything.Have you seen modern baseball players? I'ts like watching cavemen playing ball.Remember George Steinbrenner ?,no facial hair ,no hair over the collar it's called discipline.If I was President after high school ,no college, no job minimum 2 years in military,if you serve 4 free college.It will get these kids out of bed before noon and teach them work ethic.And if my kid says the pledge of allegiance and a prayer in school amen.Where I work 5 young kids quit in one day ,I have to lift stuff an clean and leave my cell phone in my locker no way.It's sad.Society being politically correct is ruining America.


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## DHower08 (Nov 20, 2015)

I'm getting out of this conversation before it becomes heated which it undoubtedly will by bringing religion into it and supporting public schools to teach about God than concentrate on educating our children. That should be 100% a parents choice not some school teacher that probably spends half there working day on a cell phone just like the students


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

God, Religion, politics need to be talked about in school. Dont teach religion, dont teach God, teach what it means. What people want to label these teachings is up to the individual.


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## Bluegillin' (Jan 28, 2009)

Saugeyefisher said:


> Lmbo the older generation is ALWAYS better. My father talked about the younger generstion,his father talked about the younger generstion,and his father talked about the younger generation. Anymore I just let it go in one ear and out another.
> Imo it's my job to teach my children about God if I want to teach my children about god(and we do). And when they're old enuff to make the decision on there own,my wife and I will let them make that decision themselves. Imo its us as parents job to discipline our children so that when they get to school they know how to behave. Not the teachers job. They are paid to educate. If my kid is doing wrong in school then inform me,an my wife and I will determine how to punish my kids.bye this I'm not saying schools shouldn't punish kids. I dont get how a grown adult thinks it's right to put there hands on a child that's not even theres. My grandpa was about as old school as it gets,but he stood up to these types of teachers for his kids and his kids friends. He always said if a parent has to lay a hand on his kid,then they are doing something wrong. That's not to say a little kid dont need a little swat on the butt now and then. But imo there are lines you dont cross with kids. After all they're just kids. We're the adults.
> Lol and I'm guilty of wearing my hat to dinner from time to time. But I dont consider myself a worst person for it.


I agree that the older generation always thinks it was better

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." - Socrates (469–399 B.C.)


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## burnsj5 (Jan 30, 2014)

The comments in this thread are hilarious. Everyone deserves to have their beliefs, but the thought that lack of God and corporal punishment in school has set the "world" into a downward spiral is ridiculous. How about people try raising their kids instead of crying about everything and being a hypocrite. Another vote for "in my day" it was different. Half the folks saying this were probably protesting, pot smoking hippies from the 60's or if nothing else babied their kids then get upset about them not being able to do anything as adults. 
Sorry if coming off strongly but I hear this stuff from older coworkers and family all the time. Complain about their kids and "now a days", but then tell me how they don't discipline them or let them spend all day on their phones/tablets or just as bad parents on their phones not paying attention to their kids. I guess it's someone else's job, like the schools to teach one specific set of religious values and morals. What bummer if you had to do that at home.


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## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

DHower08 said:


> I'm getting out of this conversation before it becomes heated which it undoubtedly will by bringing religion into it and *supporting public schools to teach about God than concentrate on educating our children*. That should be 100% a parents choice not some school teacher that probably spends half there working day on a cell phone just like the students


No one said that public schools should teach about God. What is wrong is taking God from our Pledge, as is taking images of the Cross and other religious figures from public buildings was/is wrong.


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## OSUdaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

burnsj5 said:


> The comments in this thread are hilarious. Everyone deserves to have their beliefs, but the thought that lack of God and corporal punishment in school has set the "world" into a downward spiral is ridiculous. ..


I'll be darned but sn't it funny that things started going in a downward spiral when those things started to disappear??

Just a coincidence I guess, eh?


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## SICKOFIT (Feb 23, 2014)

Snakecharmer said:


> When they built the Astrodome back in the 60's and baseball prayers started wearing their hats indoors, that ended the stigma of not wearing a hat indoors... And here we are...


Are you serious? The Astrodome?


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## burnsj5 (Jan 30, 2014)

OSUdaddy said:


> I'll be darned but sn't it funny that things started going in a downward spiral when those things started to disappear??
> 
> Just a coincidence I guess, eh?


Guess it's the schools fault, nothing to do with parenting or lack there of. Just throw a couple crosses up in the classroom and kids will take their goofy flat billed hats off, drop the energy drinks, and unplug their e-cigs. Also, I don't believe anything is in a downward spiral, simply different, not good or bad. Funny how so many have amnesia between the ages of approximately 16 to 25 once they turn 40.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

SICKOFIT said:


> Are you serious? The Astrodome?


Look it up...


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## CoonDawg92 (Jun 1, 2016)

Funny how as my wife and I get older we find ourselves saying things like "the world is going to he!! in a handbasket" more and more. Heard my daddy's generation say it, and my grandmama's as well.

Scary thing to me is with all the technology these days how things can get out of control so quickly. Seems like a lot more potential for both good and evil. I only just turned 50 and my kids are teenagers, good kids for the most part. Probably better than I was at their age. 

I don't know, maybe it's just having kids grow up in a world that is so different than I did that is the scary part.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

When asked at the 1979 Sugar bowl why he wasnt wearing his distinctive houndstooth hat. Bear Bryant was quoted as saying Mama said when you go indoors you take off your hat.

But he was the last one to do it LOL


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

Saugeyefisher said:


> Lmbo the older generation is ALWAYS better. My father talked about the younger generstion,his father talked about the younger generstion,and his father talked about the younger generation. Anymore I just let it go in one ear and out another.
> Imo it's my job to teach my children about God if I want to teach my children about god(and we do). And when they're old enuff to make the decision on there own,my wife and I will let them make that decision themselves. Imo its us as parents job to discipline our children so that when they get to school they know how to behave. Not the teachers job. They are paid to educate. If my kid is doing wrong in school then inform me,an my wife and I will determine how to punish my kids.bye this I'm not saying schools shouldn't punish kids. I dont get how a grown adult thinks it's right to put there hands on a child that's not even theres. My grandpa was about as old school as it gets,but he stood up to these types of teachers for his kids and his kids friends. He always said if a parent has to lay a hand on his kid,then they are doing something wrong. That's not to say a little kid dont need a little swat on the butt now and then. But imo there are lines you dont cross with kids. After all they're just kids. We're the adults.
> Lol and I'm guilty of wearing my hat to dinner from time to time. But I dont consider myself a worst person for it.





DHower08 said:


> I'm getting out of this conversation before it becomes heated which it undoubtedly will by bringing religion into it and supporting public schools to teach about God than concentrate on educating our children. That should be 100% a parents choice not some school teacher that probably spends half there working day on a cell phone just like the students


both of you guys make a great point about it being the parents responsibility. but in todays world with all the single parents and many of them getting pregnant before they are even 16 or 18 yrs old, and so many parents on drugs or just don't care that a lot of our kids don't know what discipline is. so those kids don't get discipline at home or at school. yes there are a lot of great kids out there and have great parents but even a lot of them are exposed to the kids that don't get any discipline that they have a huge burden to carry.

and I agree with what was said in an above post. maby I said it wrong but don't teach god in school but teach about the theory of god and allow those that want to pray to do so, and teach respect, and good manners.
sherman


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

This country was founded on the Christian belief, for those that don't know our congress in the beginning bought the first bibles FOR the schools in that day.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

OSUdaddy said:


> ...and God.
> 
> BTW.....I have no problem seeing folks wearing baseball hats in pubs, bar food spots and general casual dining places. I often keep my baseball hat on when eating in those places. Wearing one in a business casual class or fine food restaurant, however, is not proper IMO.


Wearing a hat at the table, is not proper where ever it my be.


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## one3 (Dec 1, 2015)

Saugeyefisher said:


> Lmbo the older generation is ALWAYS better. My father talked about the younger generstion,his father talked about the younger generstion,and his father talked about the younger generation. Anymore I just let it go in one ear and out another.
> Imo it's my job to teach my children about God if I want to teach my children about god(and we do). And when they're old enuff to make the decision on there own,my wife and I will let them make that decision themselves. Imo its us as parents job to discipline our children so that when they get to school they know how to behave. Not the teachers job. They are paid to educate. If my kid is doing wrong in school then inform me,an my wife and I will determine how to punish my kids.bye this I'm not saying schools shouldn't punish kids. I dont get how a grown adult thinks it's right to put there hands on a child that's not even theres. My grandpa was about as old school as it gets,but he stood up to these types of teachers for his kids and his kids friends. He always said if a parent has to lay a hand on his kid,then they are doing something wrong. That's not to say a little kid dont need a little swat on the butt now and then. But imo there are lines you dont cross with kids. After all they're just kids. We're the adults.
> Lol and I'm guilty of wearing my hat to dinner from time to time. But I dont consider myself a worst person for it.


Well said


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

I take my hat off when I go into the library, but I don't bother with that in a store.

edited to add, Some bank lobbies have signs requesting you remove your hat, for security purposes.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

We need to reinstate the draft and start a good old fashioned war. Weed out the losers and whiners and make people appreciate what they have.


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## Stars-n-Stripers (Nov 15, 2007)

Jump in your way back when machine, and visit a barber shop back in the 60's, they were having similar conversations.....about us.


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## tinner (Mar 28, 2009)

All of those problems that are mentioned started when MOM went to work outside the house. Parents today wake up tired and come home tired no time to be parents. Most children are being brought up by others rather than Mom and Dad.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Someone in an earlier post spoke of pot-smoke'n hippies from the late 60's. Seems to me, that when these so called late 60's hippes started taking over our schools and churchs and even the Presidency of the U.S. thats when things in this country began to change rather drasticly, and not for the better.
Their lax attitudes and get everything now personas has permeated this generation as well.

BTW, if i had worn a hat to the dinner table, my dad would have knocked it off with my head still in it.


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

As a society, here in the US we are less formal today. One example is in our schools. At least around where I live, they call teachers Mr. Jim, using his first name instead of a formal last name like Mr. Enders. That would not have gone over well back when I went to school. 

As far as religion, it doesn't necessarily need to be taught in school, but it needs to be taught to be respected.

I can't find the picture, but it's a comic that's very true. In the top photo is the past where the parent and teachers are talking to the student about why he got a. F on his report card. The modern day equivalent is the parents and kid talking to the teacher asking why the kid got an F on the report card. Meaning the teachers didn't have the parents on their side anymore.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## SJB (Mar 22, 2017)

OSUdaddy said:


> ...and God.
> 
> BTW.....I have no problem seeing folks wearing baseball hats in pubs, bar food spots and general casual dining places. I often keep my baseball hat on when eating in those places. Wearing one in a business casual class or fine food restaurant, however, is not proper IMO.


My dirtbag of a cousin showed up at our wedding with a dirty ball cap on. I nicely asked him to remove it which he did. But I could not help to think wow.....

He is in the big house now. I don't think he can wear a hat their.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

My opinion is the biggest contributor to this is the taking of the woman from the home. It used to be children had a full time supervisor, Mom. Not so today. Today people expect the state/school to raise their child. Mom is just as busy as Dad. Nobody has time for their children. I think that is the largest contributor to today's societal ills. Also that gave the schools and teachers 1000's of full time supervisors as well. When the school was screwing up, all the Moms caught it before it became too late. 

One misunderstood part of the separation of church and state, is it wasn't designed to mean there could be no religion in government. It was designed to stop the government from forcing any one religion onto the people. This forced removal of any religious items is not the original intent. Instead of forcing removal of religious items, such as the Ten Commandments, opposing religions should have asked for their items displayed alongside them.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)




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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Spent the longest year of my life as a teacher in a public high school. The only interaction I had w/parents was when Jr. got suspended for playing demolition derby w/his desk in my class. I sent Jr. to the office but an assistant principal suspended him. Mom & Dad showed up the next day, raised Hell w/ass. principal, called me everything but "late for dinner" & Jr was reinstated, even though his partner in crime took his suspension like a man.

Real trouble started when parents quit being parents & became their kids's "friends."


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

You are free to choose what to believe in this great Country. Information should be provided to kids in school but there are very few things that should be mandatory. I shouldn't force my beliefs onto others, and neither should anyone else. I had "Bible" class in school and there were kids who did not attend. Those kids were picked on a lot by those of us who did attend. Why? Because we were told by our elders that those kids "come from bad families." How 'bout that for Christianity, eh? People tend to leave out the millions upon millions of human beings that have been murdered across the face of the Earth over time in the name of God. Most like to focus on that little manger in Bethlehem, or Moses carrying down the tablets from the mountain. 

I'm past the half way point of my life, and from where I sit the issue here (and always has been) is not that the younger generations lack respect and such, it's that the younger generations want to make their own decisions and form their own opinions about things without having to trust and believe that what Dad and Mom said was always the way things should be forever and ever. What's wrong with that? 

"Lack of respect" should be read as "you don't agree with me so you are wrong." See, that's the real issue here. I have faith in the younger generations. They will get it done, just like mine and yours have done. It may not be the way you would do it, but they'll get it done and hopefully it'll be for the better.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

I never understood the whole hat or tie thing. I mean, what purpose does a tie serve? I hate wearing them. Is it simply a matter of tradition? I'm just glad I never had a job that I had to wear one. Silly.
Same with hat's. What is the basis for having to take one off indoors? Tradition? Why is it disrespectful to wear a hat in a restaurant and to whom are we being disrespectful towards? I could care less. Silly traditions, IMO


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

It all started changing around 95 with the World Wide Web. That’s when things started getting far far to liberal. There are a lot of extreme left policy’s today that wouldn’t have flew prior to the 90 which has made us weak. It’s going to be our downfall....


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## JamesF (May 20, 2016)

I remember being told to go outside and play. However there were rules and consequences. There were kids that just ran wild, looking for trouble. My dad's generation was formed by WW2. I knew many that had to work on the problems that haunted them from the war, just like (it seems every generation).Broken families, welfare, and letting our children raise themselves ,that last one has been going on for ever." Mommas little helper" the little yellow pill! It's the parents responsibility to raise the children, and no one else!!


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## 1more (Jan 10, 2015)

Wh


cincinnati said:


> Spent the longest year of my life as a teacher in a public high school. The only interaction I had w/parents was when Jr. got suspended for playing demolition derby w/his desk in my class. I sent Jr. to the office but an assistant principal suspended him. Mom & Dad showed up the next day, raised Hell w/ass. principal, called me everything but "late for dinner" & Jr was reinstated, even though his partner in crime took his suspension like a man.
> 
> Real trouble started when parents quit being parents & became their kids's "friends."


at 


cincinnati said:


> Spent the longest year of my life as a teacher in a public high school. The only interaction I had w/parents was when Jr. got suspended for playing demolition derby w/his desk in my class. I sent Jr. to the office but an assistant principal suspended him. Mom & Dad showed up the next day, raised Hell w/ass. principal, called me everything but "late for dinner" & Jr was reinstated, even though his partner in crime took his suspension like a man.
> 
> Real trouble started when parents quit being parents & became their kids's "friends."


What would have happened to those kids if they went to Elder, Lasalle or St Xavier?


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

Have a buddy who taught, for a couple years, @ LaSalle. Not a hard & fast rule, but parents who write a tuition check & actually SEE what they’re paying for education, tend to demand more “effort” from their kids.


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Stars-n-Stripers said:


> Jump in your way back when machine, and visit a barber shop back in the 60's, they were having similar conversations.....about us.


Yup and look at you....us....☺


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

fedora4me said:


> The left has been undermining social norms for over 60 years. Where have you been hiding?
> To speak of a hat, in the face of all that has been lost is akin to addressing the blood stain on a shirt and ignoring the bullet hole which created the blood stain.


Funny thing is my take would be that the country has been going downhill since the right has been destroying democratic norms since Reagan and the moral(?) majority has fostered in an era of un-American ideology. 
To wit... the responses here saying that the lack of morals and respect is due to taking god out of schools. First of all, morality IS separate from religion. Some of the most moral and ethical people I have met are atheists, and some of the most immoral people I have met are religious. Additionally, if you think it's alright to display Christian symbolism in schools and public buildings, you should have no problem with the sight of Muslim or Satanic displays either. Furthermore, I guess it would be alright to teach about god in public schools as long as churches were forced to teach evolution and were dutifully taxed. 
BTW, wearing hats during dinner irks me to no end, whether at home, in a bar, or a restaurant, lol!


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

Biodude said:


> Funny thing is my take would be that the country has been going downhill since the right has been destroying democratic norms since Reagan and the moral(?) majority has fostered in an era of un-American ideology.
> To wit... the responses here saying that the lack of morals and respect is due to taking god out of schools. First of all, morality IS separate from religion. Some of the most moral and ethical people I have met are atheists, and some of the most immoral people I have met are religious. Additionally, if you think it's alright to display Christian symbolism in schools and public buildings, you should have no problem with the sight of Muslim or Satanic displays either. Furthermore, I guess it would be alright to teach about god in public schools as long as churches were forced to teach evolution and were dutifully taxed.
> BTW, wearing hats during dinner irks me to no end, whether at home, in a bar, or a restaurant, lol!


 the only thing said in this post that makes any sense at all is ,,the hat.


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

Had a professor in college tell my class..."You should get your morals at church, your discipline at home, and your education at school. Today, everyone wants schools to do all 3." Some of the most true words I have ever heard.

A survey was done with parents and teachers and they were asked what is most important to them. The most common answer answer by parents was "discipline in schools", most common answer by teachers was "parental involvement." The issue begins and ends with parents. Morals, values, and discipline should be handled by the parents. Kids that lack discipline and morals, lack them because their parents failed.


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

glasseyes said:


> the only thing said in this post that makes any sense at all is ,,the hat.


So a basic understanding of the constitution doesn't make sense?. Sad! The USA is a secular democracy. I'd much rather prefer that than a theocracy... like Iran. 




BuckeyeFishinNut said:


> Had a professor in college tell my class..."You should get your morals at church, your discipline at home, and your education at school. Today, everyone wants schools to do all 3." Some of the most true words I have ever heard.
> 
> A survey was done with parents and teachers and they were asked what is most important to them. The most common answer answer by parents was "discipline in schools", most common answer by teachers was "parental involvement." The issue begins and ends with parents. Morals, values, and discipline should be handled by the parents. Kids that lack discipline and morals, lack them because their parents failed.


Amen!


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

Biodude said:


> Funny thing is my take would be that the country has been going downhill since the right has been destroying democratic norms since Reagan and the moral(?) majority has fostered in an era of un-American ideology.
> To wit... the responses here saying that the lack of morals and respect is due to taking god out of schools. First of all, morality IS separate from religion. Some of the most moral and ethical people I have met are atheists, and some of the most immoral people I have met are religious. Additionally, if you think it's alright to display Christian symbolism in schools and public buildings, you should have no problem with the sight of Muslim or Satanic displays either. Furthermore, I guess it would be alright to teach about god in public schools as long as churches were forced to teach evolution and were dutifully taxed.
> BTW, wearing hats during dinner irks me to no end, whether at home, in a bar, or a restaurant, lol!


That’s ok, Trump’s got ya covered. He’s trying to clean up the mess you left us with. You know, your amnesty plan that was supposed to put a country within this country by making millions of illegal immigrants legal citizens practically overnight. That’s very un-American, not to mention bought a lot of votes. But you piss and moan about hats being worn in public.


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## cement569 (Jan 21, 2016)

I noticed a change about the time the computer age arrived. then came social media witch I do not get involved with, and of course the p.c crowd. most kids today don't know what a good hard days work is because all their lives they had everything handed to them, I have seen it first hand in the const. trade we would start a rookie out at 16.00 an hour and most wouldn't last a day and they had plenty of room for advancement. as for taking the paddle out of schools it was wrong,just ask me I got to know it a few times and after that I walked the chalk. we called it the board of education......there got that off my chest


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> That’s ok, Trump’s got ya covered. He’s trying to clean up the mess you left us with. You know, your amnesty plan that was supposed to put a country within this country by making millions of illegal immigrants legal citizens practically overnight. That’s very un-American, not to mention bought a lot of votes. But you piss and moan about hats being worn in public.


When did I mention anything about Trump, illegal aliens, etc? Projection much? Amazing how an alternate viewpoint elicits so much hang-wringing, lol. You should re-consider your screen name, lol.


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## Stars-n-Stripers (Nov 15, 2007)

Biodude said:


> Funny thing is my take would be that the country has been going downhill since the right has been destroying democratic norms since Reagan and the moral(?) majority has fostered in an era of un-American ideology.
> To wit... the responses here saying that the lack of morals and respect is due to taking god out of schools. First of all, morality IS separate from religion. Some of the most moral and ethical people I have met are atheists, and some of the most immoral people I have met are religious. Additionally, if you think it's alright to display Christian symbolism in schools and public buildings, you should have no problem with the sight of Muslim or Satanic displays either. Furthermore, I guess it would be alright to teach about god in public schools as long as churches were forced to teach evolution and were dutifully taxed.
> BTW, wearing hats during dinner irks me to no end, whether at home, in a bar, or a restaurant, lol!


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## Stars-n-Stripers (Nov 15, 2007)

In before the lock as StrongPersuasion has certainly pointed this thread that direction.

Politics much?


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## BuckeyeFishin07 (Apr 10, 2017)

I agree with the ones that say it is the parents fault, but it is also the fault of the government by telling parents how they can parent. I have heard kids tell their mother in a store to F off and she just let them get away with it cause she is too afraid what someone will say about how she punishes said kid. I would have never thought to say that to my mother cause I don't who was around I would have been picking up my teeth off the floor of the store. Like someone else said parents are too busy trying to be friends with their children instead of being the parent. Most parents are afraid to spank their child anymore for fear of being in trouble for it, this is where the lack of respect comes from, just my opinion. I knew when I messed up there was going to be consequences when I got home. Now they give them a timeout, cause that works obviously. My dad only had to spank me once as a child after that the look of disappointment in his face was enough to get the point. Price of living today makes it hard for a family to only have one parent working, but the technology of today's world also take away from quality time spent with family. Even if they do eat dinner together they don't hardly talk because everyone is on a tablet, or their phone. It starts at home!


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

BTW, times changed millinnea ago. I bet everyone's father here complained about the same thing. And their father before that. And guess what? When our kids get to be grouchy old codgers like us they will be saying that about their kids. Still... your mama should have taught you it's bad manners to wear your hat at the table, lol.


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## Timjim (May 15, 2011)

as far as people taking their hat's of to eat, watch what you wish for. The sight of some peoples head-hair might make you lose your appetite


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

Good point..
But even worse than wearing a hat, to me at least, is eating with one's mouth open, followed by not knowing how to hold your silverware.


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## matticito (Jul 17, 2012)

God doesnt need to be taught. Can be a completely normal person without it. 10 commandments aren't thou shall not litter, thou shall not video game all day, thou shall work hard, thou shall pay your bills, thou shall take hats off at Mickey d's dinner table.

It's all parents. So many kids cant even handle a broom, a gd broom! Kids dont know how to wash dishes! It's sad. I see it every time I hire new kids for work. I want to start having auditions instead of interviews. Get them to do dishes, sweep, mop, take out trash, clean bathroom.

They dont know any of that I doubt they know please& thank you, how are you, hold a door for people, etc.


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

Biodude said:


> When did I mention anything about Trump, illegal aliens, etc? Projection much? Amazing how an alternate viewpoint elicits so much hang-wringing, lol. You should re-consider your screen name, lol.


I was just pointing out facts. No hand wringing. We have to choice to lean to the right and to the left thank god. But if these radical views come to pass, we won’t even have that choice any longer.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

At one point in my life a teacher called me to warn me of something and I refused to listen. So It happens people.. Yes the teacher was right.


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## Eastside Al (Apr 25, 2010)

Ww2 gen had to worry about another world war

Gen' s now are worried about social media and their device shuting them off.


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## burnsj5 (Jan 30, 2014)

Eastside Al said:


> Ww2 gen had to worry about another world war
> 
> Gen' s now are worried about social media and their device shuting them off.


I agree focus now a days is on rather irrelevant items like you mentioned. However, most forget we have been at war for what 15 years? Soldiers still in the middle east and most of those are young adults who have died and wounded in that time frame. I think no matter your age people have forgotten this and is frustrating to many who have spent time over there.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

Government and the Dept. of education have no business teaching religious beliefs in school. 
Teaching students to respect themselves, their classmates and the staff would be commendable.
Morals and values are not mutually exclusive to religious teaching.

If the school system banned hats, the kids would whine and a lot more parents, I'm sure.
I would be fine with it, and I would have accepted it when I was a student.
A public education is a right in this country, bad behavior isn't.

Parents and families have the sole responsibility to raise children to become moral, productive beings. If they don't, they need not look any farther than inward.

Patience is a virtue!
Beating your children may satisfy your urge to be a responsible parent, but driving them away from you mentally, physically and emotionally is counter productive, as well as a slippery slope to more serious problems later.

Politics has no place in this discussion.

I can see, we have shared values.......Please! let's get this right.--Tim


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

Stars-n-Stripers said:


> In before the lock as StrongPersuasion has certainly pointed this thread that direction.
> 
> Politics much?


You got that right! This thread got political before I commented... I just don’t beat around the bush about it. Besides, if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the thread.


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## Blue Pike (Apr 24, 2004)




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## Mickey (Oct 22, 2011)

Blue Pike said:


> View attachment 304103


That teddy bear represents many things.


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> That teddy bear represents many things.


It certainly does. That's why my 14yo daughter doesn't have a phone. Hell, I don't have a cell phone. Drives my boss nuts .
I am threatening to get her a jitterbug phone when she goes off to high school next year.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Getting back to hats, some say the inauguration of JFK marked s turning point in mens' fashions. He isn't wearing a hat, but most of the guys behind him still are.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

scioto_alex said:


> Getting back to hats, some say the inauguration of JFK marked s turning point in mens' fashions. He isn't wearing a hat, but most of the guys behind him still are.


His hair was to dreamy for a hat


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## Stars-n-Stripers (Nov 15, 2007)

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> You got that right! This thread got political before I commented... I just don’t beat around the bush about it. Besides, if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the thread.


Or, how about this, if you can't follow the OGF TOS don't post. Of which this is from:
*Political *and Religious Posts: Historically, OGF prohibits all political/religious posts.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Saugeyefisher said:


> His hair was to dreamy for a hat


Too much information LOL


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

The best thing we can do is keep talking about it. The minute we stop talking about it...Well..


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

Regarding hats, I did some googling on why wearing a hat indoors is...well rude or so they say. Basically , it dates back to the days of Knights that were required to lift up their face mask so they can be identified. That is pretty much it. I see NO real REASON to not to wear a hat other then, everyone says its rude. How is it rude? It's a piece of clothing or an accessory. Why do I have to remove it? And don't get me started on ties! Also, obviously I'm not a traditionalist or a fashionista, lol
https://bestlifeonline.com/rude-to-wear-a-hat-indoors/


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## Specwar (Sep 22, 2014)

*Things don’t change, people change.  Unfortunately they seem to have changed for the worse.*


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## 1basshunter (Mar 27, 2011)




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## allwayzfishin (Apr 30, 2008)

DHower08 said:


> Are we really going to rant about wearing hats inside when youve got the majority of children today are raise by cell phones and video games instead of there parents.


Yes, so true and so sad. Totally confused by that too actually. Why would a kid want to be in his room all the time instead of being a kid getting dirty outside?


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

All good points! Seems there is no respect or consideration for others-or themselves!


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

For me with video games it was always something to do when I couldn't go fishing,lmao still is. Just got done playing for a hour or so. My kids have them,they play them. We kinda use it as a tool to teach our kids discipline. We dont tell them when to get on or get off. If there home work and house chores are done they can have 45min to a hour "electronic time. But we make them tell us when they start. But dont tell them when theres time up. If they go over there time there grounded from it the next day. That simple. They dont even play them everyday. Especially when neighborhood kids are out playing. Our kids have nerf gun wars,play till its dark outside,whine to come in. 
I've had video games since I can remember. There something fun to do.
Now I will admit,my son would choose video games over a stuffed animal any day of the week. But my daughter would take her toys over a electronic every day of the week....


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

Timjim said:


> as far as people taking their hat's of to eat, watch what you wish for. The sight of some peoples head-hair might make you lose your appetite


I have NO head hair left on Top! I like to eat out occasionally, fast food places, very casual "elderly people" restaurants. SO, I keep my camo or sport team ball cap on(jacket too, sometimes) as do most of the other men in these places because I'm always hitting my head on things when working around the house or in the yard and with no "hair cushion", usually have some scabbies(not to mention the liver spots, and pre-cancerous lesions that seniors get from too much sun exposure "from before" Sun Screens!) I like to think I'm doing it for the others nearby who "could be grossed out" looking at my 'stuff'! Too late to change it so I prefer to just cover it up! Not doing it to be disrespectful and I sincerely "beg your pardon"-so please don't stare(or touch it), that could go bad for both of us!


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

I am around middle schools kids all day, everyday. I can unequivocally say that kids today lack legitimate social skills that most of us have. IMO these have been eroded by cellphones, social media, and online gaming. They have issues with societal norms because most of their interactions with others occur through an anonymous name online.

People who grew up pre-social media met people face to face, either through school, sports, your neighborhood, etc. Your friends were typically like minded individuals, from a similar background and a similar upbringing. If you didn't conform to the societal norms, you were probably "weird" and didn't have many friends. Kids today can act however they want and find others like them because of the internet. They are not "forced" to act a certain way in order to be accepted by a localized peer group because the whole world is available to them through cellphones, tablets, and computers.

I hear kids say things to each other that would have gotten their ass beat after school when we were kids. Today, that just seems acceptable because thats the world they grow up in. Many have a hard time accepting failure. If things don't go their way, they either quit or blame someone else. Because they are given way too much freedom, they are typically poor at following directions and want to question why they have to do something. Many have no respect for authority because they have no authoritarian figure in their life. Parents don't act like parents, they act like friends instead. This leads kids to believe they are on the same level as adults, which is a major issue.


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## Beepum19 (Apr 9, 2016)

These kids need to take a trip up on Walton mountain.learn some respect


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Well said, Buckeye. It's like a race to the bottom, to see who can be the biggest Bad Boy on the block, because that's what earns respect - make people fear you.

I grew up as a hippie, Peace and Love Brothers and Sisters and all that. Not much of that out there any more, it's more like screw the other guys and make sure you lock your doors when you get home.


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## $diesel$ (Aug 3, 2018)

Buckeye, thats stated bout as well as it can be.
Nuff said.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

$diesel$ said:


> Buckeye, thats stated bout as well as it can be.
> Nuff said.


Yup!!!


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## WETSHIRT (Jun 29, 2012)

If you think our society is getting a little coarse, go check out the fart in public thread. I find this conversation here a bit ironic. A few of the same people.


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## CoonDawg92 (Jun 1, 2016)

Farters gonna fart!


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## fedora4me (May 31, 2014)

Biodude said:


> Funny thing is my take would be that the country has been going downhill since the right has been destroying democratic norms since Reagan and the moral(?) majority has fostered in an era of un-American ideology.
> To wit... the responses here *saying that the lack of morals and respect is due to taking god out of schools.* First of all, morality IS separate from religion. Some of the most moral and ethical people I have met are atheists, and some of the most immoral people I have met are religious. Additionally, if you think it's alright to display Christian symbolism in schools and public buildings, you should have no problem with the sight of Muslim or Satanic displays either. Furthermore, I guess it would be alright to teach about god in public schools as long as churches were forced to teach evolution and were dutifully taxed.
> BTW, wearing hats during dinner irks me to no end, whether at home, in a bar, or a restaurant, lol!


I didn't say anything about Christians or religion.... At all.
Sounds (to me) like you are projecting.


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## MIGHTY (Sep 21, 2013)

BuckeyfishinNut hit it pretty good. Parenting and social media are the biggest factors in my opinion. I graduated in 2005 and I don’t think any kids had cell phones yet back then. No hats in school, heck we weren’t even allowed to chew gum if I remember right. I bought my first cell phone when I turned 22 since all of my friends looked at me like I was from a different planet since I didn’t have one. Still have never had a Facebook or instagram or anything like that. I was flipping through a friends Instagram on his phone and it seemed like I was lookin through a Victoria’s Secret catalog with a few truck and fish pictures thrown in the mix. Like buckeye said, people don’t know how to communicate face to face anymore. Everyone gets on social media and surrounds themselves with people that think the same exact way they do. Then when some kind of adversity comes up in real life they can’t deal with it very well. Sure there’s some people out there like my aunt for example that only has a Facebook to keep in touch with her niece from her side of the family who moved to Louisiana, but a lot of people get on there and talk about things that bother them or things they don’t like and the like minded friends that they have give them a “like” and it probably gives them a sense of accomplishment. “Slacktivists” is what I refer to them as. If you have a problem with someone or something have a face to face discussion and try to work it out. No one REALLY cares about your opinions deep down. Think about it as like a business owner or a school or anything....if there’s something that someone gets offended by you’re at their mercery. They can run right to social media in a matter of seconds and post something negative about you. Besides that, it also seems like there’s people that like to get on there and post a bunch of “look at me and all the great stuff I have” kind of pictures. I’ve got buddies that are married/engaged and sometimes they bring up how their significant others will point out that their friends have this and that or are always traveling and maybe we should too! I don’t know, I could probably ramble on for hours about this stuff but I’ll just stop now.


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## Biodude (Nov 5, 2004)

fedora4me said:


> I didn't say anything about Christians or religion.... At all.
> Sounds (to me) like you are projecting.


Uh... thats because I wasn't talking to you.


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## Ruminator (Apr 6, 2004)

I just read through this entire thread and have a couple of thoughts to include.

First, although I'm not sure why our mods have decided to let this thread run its course with the few TOS violations in it; but I'm very glad that they have decided to leave it open.
In our country today, as men we have taken a beat-down from within our own society- TV, movies, etc. and for us to be able to occasionally vent somewhere is an important matter for our own mental health.

To be able to do so with other men of some similar interests is important, so long we can do so as mature adults and without personal attacks on one another.

- yes, as was pointed out, there have been complaints from one generation about the younger one going back thousands of years. *But...* was it an accompanying "sign of the times" as that society declined and eventually failed- quite possibly. (need to check some dates)
- so to only state the fact that its occurred before is to miss the point that maybe we should realize we need to take a close, detailed look at what's going on in our generation and not dismiss it as "some things never change".
And just maybe the prior generations we know are all correct, as well as ourselves in their observations that things are getting worse.
The obvious is staring us in the face.

Many good points have been made in this thread as contributory factors for the current state of affairs.
And although I am a man who tries daily to pattern my life after the christian principles that Jesus taught, I don't see that the taking out of public schools the teachings of Christianity as being the cause of the moral decline in our country as much as a result of it.

From my perspective, when our public schools, colleges, universities, and seminaries began teaching atheism, that no God exists is when we, as a nation began a more rapid descent down the "slippery slope" of moral decline.

Its been said in this thread that morals and values can exist without a religious base. And it was pointed out that there are morally poor examples of religious people, and good examples of atheists. Although such cases exist, what is the general norm that we see?

*- yes, people change, but that of necessity causes things to change.
*For example, does anyone here not see that the moral decline in, not only this country but generally around the world has brought changes in the value of human life? Social values are especially in a state of rapid change; and not for the betterment of people.

For example the taking away of the 30 yr. full retirements of many in our country, after having worked and put in the years.
- Or intentionally scheduling people less hours than needed to receive health benefits to avoid providing them.
- forcing people to work 10-12 hr. shifts to reduce employees and costs; with no regard for the effects in the employees personal lives.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

The all mighty dollar!


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

As I understand it, the school system is changing history books to say what they want it to say rather than what actually happened in history. 

I don't care what religion or political party you are with, this is bad!!


There is very little wow factor in our culture anymore. Everything that is shocking has been done, some of it is common place. This will be the downfall of our society. 

Other cultures, ones that wish us harm, our taking advantage of our ignorance by infiltrating our government. We are blind to it by things like political correctness, acceptance, and biased media. 

Cell phones are not the problem. Guns are not the problem. People, people are the problem. I don't see a solution either.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

crittergitter said:


> As I understand it, the school system is changing history books to say what they want it to say rather than what actually happened in history.
> 
> I don't care what religion or political party you are with, this is bad!!
> 
> ...


Agree with everything here with the exception of calling our sad state of 'apathy' ...ignorance.

Also, regardless of political status...the public has watched and should be well educated of many of the dangers we face by allowing other cultures meaning us harm to infiltrate our country and government. That takes the excuse of 'ignorance' off the table.
Being educated of these dangers and not doing everything possible to stop them leaves nothing but disgraceful apathy (I.E. Knowing and not caring) in those doing so.
Sadly...someone guilty of being an apathetic person of something very wrong going on right in front of their eyes only has a change of heart when what they are apathetic about affects them right in their core surroundings. They could care less what has, or is gonna affect anybody else around them.


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

fastwater said:


> Agree with everything here with the exception of calling our sad state of 'apathy' ...ignorance.
> 
> Also, regardless of political status...the public has watched and should be well educated of many of the dangers we face by allowing other cultures meaning us harm to infiltrate our country and government. That takes the excuse of 'ignorance' off the table.
> Being educated of these dangers and not doing everything possible to stop them leaves nothing but disgraceful apathy (I.E. Knowing and not caring) in those doing so.
> Sadly...someone guilty of being an apathetic person of something very wrong going on right in front of their eyes only has a change of heart when what they are apathetic about affects them right in their core surroundings. They could care less what has, or is gonna affect anybody else around them.


And that’s exactly what I was talking about earlier. Well said FW. America and it’s citizens need to come first by getting back to and staying with core values that built this country. Its getting away from us slowly but surely. Lack of education and lack of ethics are the issue.. It all starts at home.


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## DenOhio (Oct 18, 2016)

I grew up on grandpas dairy farm. Don’t need to elaborate on that. Wish all children had that opportunity


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## dugworm (May 23, 2008)

When did times change? Not sure. Discussing who farts in public is a head scratcher for me though. Sign of the times I guess?


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

DenOhio said:


> I grew up on grandpas dairy farm. Don’t need to elaborate on that. Wish all children had that opportunity


No elaboration needed. You worked your a$$ off. That’s American core right there.


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

crittergitter said:


> As I understand it, the school system is changing history books to say what they want it to say rather than what actually happened in history.
> 
> I don't care what religion or political party you are with, this is bad!!


First, school districts arent changing history books, printing companies are. Like most media outlets, they are extremely liberal and often write their text as such. We live in a society today where if certain people don't like what happened in the past, we need to erase it. You can't apply the way of thinking today to things that happened hundreds of years ago. History is history and the best you can do is learn from it and move forward and try not to make those mistakes again. Unfortunately, the very loud minority has gotten its way in erasing many things, hence robbing future generations from learning from it.


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## BuckeyeFishin07 (Apr 10, 2017)

BuckeyeFishinNut said:


> First, school districts arent changing history books, printing companies are. Like most media outlets, they are extremely liberal and often write their text as such. We live in a society today where if certain people don't like what happened in the past, we need to erase it. You can't apply the way of thinking today to things that happened hundreds of years ago. History is history and the best you can do is learn from it and move forward and try not to make those mistakes again. Unfortunately, the very loud minority has gotten its way in erasing many things, hence robbing future generations from learning from it.


It is sad that a certain group of people want to hide our history from the future generations like they are doing. As you said this is only going to cause more problems down the road in the future. History is there to teach us what horrible things look like, so that we don't let it happen again. Don't understand how they think erasing it from paper is going to take all the bad stuff that has happened away, but hey I am just some dumb country boy with common sense, what do I know?


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

> Unfortunately, the very loud minority has gotten its way in erasing many things, hence robbing future generations from learning from it.


What are you getting at? Liberal schoolbook publishers are erasing history? Can you back that up with any examples, or is that something you've heard and are simply repeating?

Study up on the history of schools banning books in Texas and other states. Or, ISIS destroying ancient temples, etc. How liberal are they?


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## BuckeyeFishinNut (Feb 8, 2005)

scioto_alex said:


> What are you getting at? Liberal schoolbook publishers are erasing history? Can you back that up with any examples, or is that something you've heard and are simply repeating?
> 
> Study up on the history of schools banning books in Texas and other states. Or, ISIS destroying ancient temples, etc. How liberal are they?


Considering that I am a teacher who teachers science and history, I would say I have first hand knowledge and not just hearsay. The fact that the new U.S. history books we have talk very little, if at all, about the Trail of Tears, the slave trade during Colonial America, slavery during the Civil War, etc. is all the "proof" I need. 

Books have been banned for hundreds of years by various institutions, just not schools. When schools ban a book, for any number of reasons, its left out of the curriculum of a class. The subject matter is still talked about, just book isnt read. The school may have banned them but they could still be acquired and read by the student outside of school. To erase or leave out things all together, is nothing more than pushing an agenda.

Also, many civilizations and religions have tried to erase the history of a conquered people. This has been the case for thousands of years. It is a way to try to get them to assimilate into the culture of the controlling force. Erase their history and write a new one!


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

Schools aren’t the ones doing the banning. Anyone from the ACLU to pissed off parents can cause a book to be banned depending on what they view as offensive content. Apparently the process is that a book can be put on a challenged list and go from there. Banning books is a form of censorship, from political, legal, religious, moral, or commercial motives. Trying to rewrite history isn’t the answer. It’s really the extreme liberalism views that are killing us.


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

not bringing politics into this but there is a movie and a book out that everyone should see or read if interested in the true political history of this country. I have seen the movie and read the book, the book is much better. " Death Of A Nation " by Dinesh D souza. very good material and very eye opening.


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## redhawk fisherman (Apr 13, 2004)

BuckeyeFishinNut said:


> Considering that I am a teacher who teachers science and history, I would say I have first hand knowledge and not just hearsay. The fact that the new U.S. history books we have talk very little, if at all, about the Trail of Tears, the slave trade during Colonial America, slavery during the Civil War, etc. is all the "proof" I need.
> 
> Books have been banned for hundreds of years by various institutions, just not schools. When schools ban a book, for any number of reasons, its left out of the curriculum of a class. The subject matter is still talked about, just book isnt read. The school may have banned them but they could still be acquired and read by the student outside of school. To erase or leave out things all together, is nothing more than pushing an agenda.
> 
> Also, many civilizations and religions have tried to erase the history of a conquered people. This has been the case for thousands of years. It is a way to try to get them to assimilate into the culture of the controlling force. Erase their history and write a new one!


I am 52 and was never taught about the Japanese internment camps during WWII either.


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> Schools aren’t the ones doing the banning. Anyone from the ACLU to pissed off parents can cause a book to be banned depending on what they view as offensive content. Apparently the process is that a book can be put on a challenged list and go from there. Banning books is a form of censorship, from political, legal, religious, moral, or commercial motives. Trying to rewrite history isn’t the answer. It’s really the extreme liberalism views that are killing us.


 its not re writing history in school , problem is the truth isnt being taught to start with.


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

It has been a long time ago and I don't remember a lot about it. But in late 60's or early 70's the state of WV was getting some new school books issued to the schools. I can't remember the exact issue but most of the people did not like it. So all of us Wv. Coal Miners went out on a Wildcat Strike to help support stopping the books from being issued. (Cut millions of $$ tax money going to the state gets their attention real quick).. I don't remember what the outcome of that strike was. But I am sure I enjoyed the extra few weeks vacation.. I just did a google to find info on that strike and could not find anything..
Ahhh, Found it,,,,,,,,, http://www.wvculture.org/HiStory/education/textbook01.html


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

I think we're getting to the point where actual paper books don't matter as much as what any kid can find online.


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## the_waterwolf (Feb 8, 2013)

Slatebar said:


> It has been a long time ago and I don't remember a lot about it. But in late 60's or early 70's the state of WV was getting some new school books issued to the schools. I can't remember the exact issue but most of the people did not like it. So all of us Wv. Coal Miners went out on a Wildcat Strike to help support stopping the books from being issued. (Cut millions of $$ tax money going to the state gets their attention real quick).. I don't remember what the outcome of that strike was. But I am sure I enjoyed the extra few weeks vacation.. I just did a google to find info on that strike and could not find anything..
> Ahhh, Found it,,,,,,,,, http://www.wvculture.org/HiStory/education/textbook01.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanawha_County_textbook_controversy


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)




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## kingofamberley (Jul 11, 2012)

“It’s all the fault of the kids and their social media”
- everyone on this social media site, lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## All Thumbs (Apr 11, 2004)

maybe about the time that they eliminated first place and last place teams in t-ball, everybody got to bat each inning and runs were not counted - everybody got a trophy.
the latest i saw a couple days ago - Ohio High school to eliminate valedictorian honor over 'mental wellness' concerns - i don't know if this just makes kids not try because they don't have to but what the hell do i know, i am just an old man


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## All Thumbs (Apr 11, 2004)

maybe about the time that they eliminated first place and last place teams in t-ball, everybody got to bat each inning and runs were not counted - everybody got a trophy.
the latest i saw a couple days ago - Ohio High school to eliminate valedictorian honor over 'mental wellness' concerns - i don't know if this just makes kids not try because they don't have to but what the hell do i know, i am just an old man


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

kingofamberley said:


> “It’s all the fault of the kids and their social media”
> - everyone on this social media site, lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Lol,we are all screwed


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

How did this thread survive the first page? LOL

I guess the debate still rages on,,,

AUTHOR: Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
QUOTATION: The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

boatnut said:


> I never understood the whole hat or tie thing. I mean, what purpose does a tie serve? I hate wearing them. Is it simply a matter of tradition? I'm just glad I never had a job that I had to wear one. Silly.
> Same with hat's. What is the basis for having to take one off indoors? Tradition? Why is it disrespectful to wear a hat in a restaurant and to whom are we being disrespectful towards? I could care less. Silly traditions, IMO


I ran across the answer for that a while back. In a nut shell: It seems that the aristocracy back in the day enforced dress codes so that social and financial status was easily marked "in the street". --easy to know what butt to kiss and who could be spit on and how much you could spit on them. 

Some of that silly idea survived, bled over into the "new world", and continues to this day.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

^^^Yes it does!
Employers are so impressed and very eager to hire someone in their place of business when the potential employee shows up with their pants sagging and their butt crack hanging out. 
Of course, maybe I(we)ought to explore the advantages of the sagging with butt cracked exposed attire. 
In the restaurant business, a waiter/ waitress that is serving multiple meals at a table and has hands full of plates could always take advantage of the butt crack area and carry the napkin wrapped silverware there.
Or maybe in an office setting, a place to store extra writing pens, staplers etc.
Mechanics could store extra wrenches, grocery store clerks have a ready made area for their scanner guns and fast food employees could hang a set of burger flipping tongs there.
Just tryin my best to be positive, get with the program a bit better and look on the bright side of today's trendy societal changes.

Employers also love to hire someone with so many facial piercings that it looks like they've been shot in the face with a shotgun. Or so many tongue piercings that you can't understand a thing they are saying. And then there's the hair dying of every color in the rainbow.
Which might be ok if they are applying to work at a skittles factory.
Then these same people want to walk around complaining that they can't find a job. 

I guess it just boils down to...where, as a society, are we going to draw the line as to what's socially acceptable and what's not. Seems to me there's a sure difference of what used to be socially acceptable and what's trending to become acceptable today.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

fastwater said:


> ^^^Yes it does!
> Employers are so impressed and very eager to hire someone in their place of business when the potential employee shows up with their pants sagging and their butt crack hanging out.
> Of course, maybe I(we)ought to explore the advantages of the sagging with butt cracked exposed attire.
> In the restaurant business, a waiter/ waitress that is serving multiple meals at a table and has hands full of plates could always take advantage of the butt crack area and carry the napkin wrapped silverware there.
> ...


Not long ago it was the fashion among young folks to not tie your shoes,, I always wondered if police did not secretly start that kind of silliness so they had an easier time running down young perps. LOL

But plumber's crack has been around longer than you have. As have old fogies bitching about young folks' fashions.
It hasn't been than long since even a WW2 US Marines tattoo got you looked at sideways. I can remember blue haired old women remarking about them in disgust as late as the 70's.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Pooka said:


> How did this thread survive the first page? LOL
> 
> I guess the debate still rages on,,,
> 
> ...


I am by far an authority on the writings/quotes of Socrates. Surely not enough to question the validity of his writings, nor his quotes. But seems there are some that question the validity of this particular quote about kids:
















































Reference > Quotations > Respectfully Quoted








 PREVIOUS NEXT 








CONTENTS · AUTHOR INDEX · KEYWORD INDEX · BIBLIOGRAPHIC RECORD
Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations. 1989.


NUMBER: 195
AUTHOR: Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
QUOTATION: The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson, _Personality and Adjustment,_ p. 277 (1953).

This passage was very popular in the 1960s and its essence was used by the Mayor of Amsterdam, Gijsbert van Hall, following a street demonstration in 1966, as reported by _The New York Times,_ April 3, 1966, p. 16.

This use prompted Malcolm S. Forbes to write an editorial on youth.—_Forbes,_ April 15, 1966, p. 11. In that same issue, under the heading “Side Lines,” pp. 5–6, is a summary of the efforts of researchers and scholars to confirm the wording of Socrates, or Plato, but without success. *Evidently, the quotation is spurious. *
SUBJECTS: Children


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

I guess I'm in the minority, I see and meet a lot of really good younger folks.
It's not about God or having prayer in church. I'm not religious and neither is my wife. We both grew up going to catholic schools but we decided to let our kids decide their own path. It's funny because now they're both religious.
I do however have strong a strong sense for the family unit high moral standards. This is what I tried to pass on to the kids.
I think one of the biggest problems with our society is the breakdown of the family unit. Kids need 2 parents, they need a solid foundation growing up.
Its a shame, you can almost pick out the people and their kids from the broken families out in the public. The sad part is, these kids don't have a chance when they become adults.
Since so many families are broken I think that schools need to teach kids how to function in life. Stuff like nutrition and eating healthy. Budgets and spending; savings & investing basics...what's a mutual fund, a 401k, a IRA. What does it mean to take out a mortgage and how much does it cost to pay off a 15 year vs 30 year home loan.
Since the only folks who stand out are the disruptive ones, the good ones go by unnoticed. (and age doesn't matter)


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

*Peter the Hermit, 11th Century*
“The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no respect for their parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone know everything and what passes for wisdom in us foolishness in them. As for the girls, they are foolish and immodest and unwomanly in speech, behavior, and dress.”

*Seneca, 1st Century AD*
“Our young men have grown slothful. There is not a single honorable occupation for which they will toil night and day. They sing and dance and grow effeminate and curl their hair and learn womanish tricks of speech; they are as languid as women and deck themselves out with unbecoming ornaments. Without strength, without energy, they add nothing during life to the gifts with which they were born — then they complain of their lot.”

*Plato, 5th century BC*
“Our youth have an insatiable desire for wealth; they have bad manners and atrocious customs regarding dressing and their hair and what garments or shoes they wear.”

*Hesiod, 8th Century BC*
“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.”


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Blah blah blah.... The real truth is… Getting older is a bitch ...And nobody likes it… So they blame it on the younger generation. " my generation was the good 'ole days "." We had better music, we were more respectful back then"..... I'm 44, and I can specifically remember my dad having conversations with his brothers about how effed up my generation was and how "good "we have it... this was back in 1990. And now I catch myself thinking about how effed up the 20-year-olds are that I see walking around and how disrespectful I think they are to their elders... 
The truth is there are really a bunch of great young kids out there… And they sure as hell are a lot more involved in the environment and conservation than we ever were... and they're definitely more involved Then my generation was when it comes to voicing their opinion's regarding politics and voting And getting involved in matters that actually… Matter


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

9Left said:


> Blah blah blah.... The real truth is… Getting older is a bitch ...And nobody likes it… So they blame it on the younger generation. " my generation was the good 'ole days "." We had better music, we were more respectful back then"..... I'm 44, and I can specifically remember my dad having conversations with his brothers about how effed up my generation was and how "good "we have it... this was back in 1990. And now I catch myself thinking about how effed up the 20-year-olds are that I see walking around and how disrespectful I think they are to their elders...
> The truth is there are really a bunch of great young kids out there… And they sure as hell are a lot more involved in the environment and conservation than we ever were... and they're definitely more involved Then my generation was when it comes to voicing their opinion's regarding politics and voting And getting involved in matters that actually… Matter



I agree , its not the younger generation its what the over all culture is changing to. young and old both are evolving into something i would not have imagined fifty years ago. 
I never thought i would see a day when it was argued in court if it were ok to kill a baby at birth. not to describe that baby as being nothing more than a blob of flesh. thats just one example of what i see as a moral downfall of the society and although I am a born again Christian You dont have to bring a faith into the conversation to describe some of the horrific things that are just looked at as ,ok .Young and old alike. 
Socrates was mentioned, well we all know what happened to the society and culture he lived in and it has been said we are heading in the same direction.


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

9Left said:


> Blah blah blah.... The real truth is… Getting older is a bitch ...And nobody likes it… So they blame it on the younger generation. " my generation was the good 'ole days "." We had better music, we were more respectful back then"..... I'm 44, and I can specifically remember my dad having conversations with his brothers about how effed up my generation was and how "good "we have it... this was back in 1990. And now I catch myself thinking about how effed up the 20-year-olds are that I see walking around and how disrespectful I think they are to their elders...
> The truth is there are really a bunch of great young kids out there… And they sure as hell are a lot more involved in the environment and conservation than we ever were... and they're definitely more involved Then my generation was when it comes to voicing their opinion's regarding politics and voting And getting involved in matters that actually… Matter


On the contrary, it’s not that older people are pissed about being old and blame everything on kids today. It’s that a 20 yr old has no life experience, none.. and then throw lack of parenting on top of that in a lot of cases. The older generations has lived a life, seen things. Seen history repeat itself. Sure there are a lot of good kids out their, I would like to think mine are. But the problem is because the lack of life experience, they are so easily influenced to the point of being brainwashed and then they want to have a voice and try to make political choices when they really haven't a clue on what they are doing although they think they mean well. They majority of them today cannot or chose not to be influenced at home anymore because the lack of parenting or lack of parents period. We have a lot of extreme views that have been put into place because of this and it’s getting worse. I’m trying really hard not to get political here but unfortunately it goes hand in hand because the younger generation are the ones who will be running this country and I for one don’t like the way it’s heading. Say what you want but no, things aren’t the same as it was 50 yrs ago. You have to look at the big picture.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

9Left said:


> Blah blah blah.... The real truth is… Getting older is a bitch ...And nobody likes it… So they blame it on the younger generation. " my generation was the good 'ole days "." We had better music, we were more respectful back then"..... I'm 44, and I can specifically remember my dad having conversations with his brothers about how effed up my generation was and how "good "we have it... this was back in 1990. And now I catch myself thinking about how effed up the 20-year-olds are that I see walking around and how disrespectful I think they are to their elders...
> The truth is there are really a bunch of great young kids out there… And they sure as hell are a lot more involved in the environment and conservation than we ever were... and they're definitely more involved Then my generation was when it comes to voicing their opinion's regarding politics and voting And getting involved in matters that actually… Matter



And that is about the size of it. Fussing about the youth is just the long wordy way around to making a post that says " Hey, I am old and not long for this world." LOL


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

I grew up in Columbus, regular suburban kid, but I had one friend with family down in Pomeroy and Gallipolis and Point Pleasant.

So I learned a more Southern kind of polite manner, Please, Thank you, No Maam, Yes Sir. A gracious respect for elders. (And BTW an eagerness to learn from them.)

That has stayed with me for all of my life.


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

we had some lessons in church a few weeks ago and it was how different generations over the years had different traits and accomplishments, all have good and bad . So the moral was we all need to get along and learn from each other. no one generation has the answer and im convinced of that BUT we must be able to communicate with all.


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

glasseyes said:


> we had some lessons in church a few weeks ago and it was how different generations over the years had different traits and accomplishments, all have good and bad . So the moral was we all need to get along and learn from each other. no one generation has the answer and im convinced of that BUT we must be able to communicate with all.




Aman Brother..


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> On the contrary, It’s that a 20 yr old has no life experience.


Well, Do you think the 20-year-olds 50 years ago had any life experience?
Nope... and the generations before them, 50 years ago, thought the 20-year-olds were idiots and they we're all worried about the direction that the world was heading in and what those stupid kids were doing , The same exact way that we feel today about younger generations… it is exactly about getting old and not liking it… your grandfather probably felt the same way about your dad… And your great grandfather probably felt the same way about your grandfather ...Like I said… Blah blah blah


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Sometimes I think "generation" is a shoe that doesn't fit. Are we cicadas that breed only every 17 years? People are born somewhere between "generations" so a label like that doesn't apply to them.


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

9Left said:


> Well, Do you think the 20-year-olds 50 years ago had any life experience?
> Nope... and the generations before them, 50 years ago, thought the 20-year-olds were idiots and they we're all worried about the direction that the world was heading in and what those stupid kids were doing , The same exact way that we feel today about younger generations… it is exactly about getting old and not liking it… your grandfather probably felt the same way about your dad… And your great grandfather probably felt the same way about your grandfather ...Like I said… Blah blah blah


Are you nuts? I knew everything at 20.. knew it all! Well I thought I did just like the rest of us at 20. That’s my point. We are “searching” during these young years looking for something to follow. We were easily influenced but we still knew right from wrong and this is where parents come into play. The influences and consequences along with the peer pressures are what is different generation to generation. And today those are leading kids down the wrong path. I agree the old days of our fathers and their fathers are gone. But so are the values. For example... After ww2 we would have never elected a known German Nazi fresh off the boat into a political seat like we have a known Muslim jihadist for the sake of being politically correct. It’s going to get worse. All I’m saying is it’s a little different today than us disrespecting our elders by looking at playboys and smoking cigarettes or pot behind the barn back in the day. Blah blah blah? Wake up friend.


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> Are you nuts? I knew everything at 20.. knew it all! Well I thought I did just like the rest of us at 20. That’s my point. We are “searching” during these young years looking for something to follow. We were easily influenced but we still knew right from wrong and this is where parents come into play. The influences and consequences along with the peer pressures are what is different generation to generation. And today those are leading kids down the wrong path. I agree the old days of our fathers and their fathers are gone. But so are the values. For example... After ww2 we would have never elected a known German Nazi fresh off the boat into a political seat like we have a known Muslim jihadist for the sake of being politically correct. It’s going to get worse. All I’m saying is it’s a little different today than us disrespecting our elders by looking at playboys and smoking cigarettes or pot behind the barn back in the day. Blah blah blah? Wake up friend.


Ok


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Consider how, in so many ancient cultures around the world, they respected the old story-tellers who were the historians before there was printing and books, etc.

Guys could recite epic tales of past histories, just from memory. That's why they rhyme, to help remember the next line.

The tale might come from the Greeks or the Africans or the Norse or Native Americans but it tells who a people are, based on what they have learned through experience.

They tell of heroes, before heroes needed super-hero costumes. 

They warn of dangers like enemies and waters and animals, and little kids would sit in respect and Oohh and Ahh. Then they would go out into life knowing a lion or a river is dangerous.

I think the real issue here is respect for past experience. Yes you can be young and seeking something new but you should always consider what you hear from those who have been through the wringer before you.

And, some of them might be jerks with bad ideas. Sometimes it is the role of the young to say We don't do that anymore.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> Are you nuts? I knew everything at 20.. knew it all! Well I thought I did just like the rest of us at 20. That’s my point. We are “searching” during these young years looking for something to follow. We were easily influenced but we still knew right from wrong and this is where parents come into play. The influences and consequences along with the peer pressures are what is different generation to generation. And today those are leading kids down the wrong path. I agree the old days of our fathers and their fathers are gone. But so are the values. For example... After ww2 we would have never elected a known German Nazi fresh off the boat into a political seat like we have a known Muslim jihadist for the sake of being politically correct. It’s going to get worse. All I’m saying is it’s a little different today than us disrespecting our elders by looking at playboys and smoking cigarettes or pot behind the barn back in the day. Blah blah blah? Wake up friend.


And an ignorant New York City con man would never have gotten within spitting distance of the White House. But I don't think the kids had anything to do with that. That disastrous disrespect of all the USA stands for lies squarely on our shoulders.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Consider how our country is an experiment in governance.

Look at the old models: Royalties, dictatorships. You take power because your father had the power. Sometimes you killed him to get it.

Here come these Americans with the idea that they can replace their national leadership every six or four or two years.

That lets our government respond to current concerns, but it must seem strange to other nations that we leave things to chance like that.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Man I'm glad I'm not living in the same gloom and doom world some of you guys are living in.
I'm in the world where the glass is still half full. There are so many good people out there (young and old) but you do have to open your eyes to the good as well as the bad.
Just because the world is different, doesn't mean it bad....just sayin.

And again I'd like to thank the mods for letting this thread run because we always have those one or 2 guys who hate seeing a different opinion than theirs and try to get these threads shut down with politics and religion.


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

Pooka said:


> And an ignorant New York City con man would never have gotten within spitting distance of the White House. But I don't think the kids had anything to do with that. That disastrous disrespect of all the USA stands for lies squarely on our shoulders.


Maybe you should ask yourself why that “con man” as you put it, got elected. You didn’t count the signs on the lawns my friend. People are tired of the bullshit.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> Maybe you should ask yourself why that “con man” as you put it, got elected. You didn’t count the signs on the lawns my friend. People are tired of the bullshit.


Be honest,, would trump have stood a snowball's chance as late as 2000? Hell no, people had better sense then,, even our right wingers knew better.


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## Slatebar (Apr 9, 2011)

Goodnight Mrs. Kalabash, wherever you might be...


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## STRONGPERSUADER (Nov 5, 2006)

Pooka said:


> Be honest,, would trump have stood a snowball's chance as late as 2000? Hell no, people had better sense then,, even our right wingers knew better.


So that’s why you think he got elected? Because people have no sense today? He’s doing a pretty good job but I’ll tell what he’s not doing. For one thing, giving amnesty to 2 million illegal aliens to buy votes. I’m not going to get into with you on here. Not worth it to me.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

STRONGPERSUADER said:


> So that’s why you think he got elected? Because people have no sense today? He’s doing a pretty good job but I’ll tell what he’s not doing. For one thing, giving amnesty to 2 million illegal aliens to buy votes. I’m not going to get into with you on here. Not worth it to me.


Could not be honest about it? I am not surprised. 

When did times change , indeed.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Like I said always a couple of guys who can't keep the politics away.
tic, tic, tic


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Pooka said:


> Be honest,, would trump have stood a snowball's chance as late as 2000? Hell no, people had better sense then,, even our right wingers knew better.


I knew sooner or later you would start you Trump bashing. You are so predictable. You know the rules but just can’t stand it. No class at all. Not impressed with you one bit. You always have to create controversy on this site.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

^^^Funny...I've noticed the same thing!!!


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

I'm just standing off to the side and watching the train wreck. I've learned to cover my politics which is an inconvenience like having to wear clothing.


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## DenOhio (Oct 18, 2016)

Grandpa said never discuss religion or politics cause you won’t change anyone’s mind. It works well for me.


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## BuckeyeFishin07 (Apr 10, 2017)

DenOhio said:


> Grandpa said never discuss religion or politics cause you won’t change anyone’s mind. It works well for me.


I was always taught this as a kid also! Parents always told us it always ends in an argument so just stay away from it.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

DenOhio said:


> Grandpa said never discuss religion or politics cause you won’t change anyone’s mind. It works well for me.


Amen..... and to pooka's defense. Hes not the only one bashing politicians. The other side has been bashed pretty hard to..... 

On a lighter note,I caught myself wearing my ball cap backwards at a resturaunt last nite. .


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## BuckeyeFishin07 (Apr 10, 2017)

Well the way I look at is both sides of the politicians are a bunch of lying bums! They are all pretty much worthless in my book. But the last time I checked you can't blame all the problems of this country on one person, it is everyone myself included!


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

since this hasnt shut down yet Ill try to get one more in. My family when i was growing up always voted Democrat, ( fifty years ago ) when i grew up and found the Lord I imediately switched my vote to republican. To be clear i do not vote for the individual, i vote for the belief. Im pretty narrow minded when it comes to voting , Im against gay marriage and abortion so that makes it pretty easy for me to pick which party to vote for.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Lol, and this thread all started over a hat. Wow


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

bobk said:


> Lol, and this thread all started over a hat. Wow


LOL, thats funny but you are correct. I guess we all have an opinion and things just spiraled out from there.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

Oh my


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

bobk said:


> Lol, and this thread all started over a hat. Wow


Yep! 
And to boot...the 'hat' being used only as a very small example of our kids growing up doing and acting exactly how they have watched their parents do.
Again, like father...like son.
Which brings up another point that has been thrashed in this thread already, WHERE'S DAD(or mom) in kids upbringing today?
So many one parent homes kids are growing up in today.
Where's the role models?
If the streets are raising the kids, don't expect much out of that kid when he/she gets older.
Comment on the Bible/religion:
Funny(actually sad) how we try to abolish prayer, the Bible and all forms of religion with our children in their young years while in school...but in Juvenile detention centers and adult prisons, all those things are not only welcomed but encouraged.
Nothing like waiting until all the cows are out of the pasture before mending the fence instead of mending the fence before it gets too bad for the cows to escape.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

One thing about religions: Even if you don't believe them, you should at least study them because you live in a world where some people do believe them and act on that faith. Might as well know their rulebook.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

crappiedude said:


> Like I said always a couple of guys who can't keep the politics away.
> tic, tic, tic


Did you somehow miss post number 2 in this thread? Yes, number 2. 
(and several after that including a rather tasteless and untrue one I responded too)

It seems that very often politics are only a problem if they are not right wing politics. As soon as someone counters a rightie post, the fussing about politics starts -- Just saying


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## Dave_E (Apr 6, 2004)

How many people are raising their grandkids these days? 

If they couldn't raise their own to be responsible, self sufficient, and self reliant what makes anyone think the grandkids they raise will be any different than their parents?


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

scioto_alex said:


> One thing about religions: Even if you don't believe them, you should at least study them because you live in a world where some people do believe them and act on that faith. Might as well know their rulebook.


Not that many of them follow it. LOL Christians are notorious for taking their religion "ala carte" and they are not alone in that.

Funny story,, I was attending an illegal drinking party in Kuwait and when the late night call to prayer rang out across the city the Kuwaiti and Saudi guests stopped what they were doing, put their drinks and smoke down and proceed to do the Mecca prayer thing. They finished up, stood up, grabbed their drinks and went right back to partying. 
That caught me by surprise. Not sure what I expected but it sure wasn't that. 
I guess that no matter where you go,, people are people.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Pook,when people say right or left it doesn’t bother me. We all have our own beliefs. When you directly bash the president of our country and then suggest the “right” would rather be communist that’s a little too far. Of course that’s just my thoughts on the subject.

You could always just ignore the negative posts like an adult.

You have an agenda here on ogf. If you don’t like the way the thread is going you bring bashing politics into the discussion in hopes of the topic getting nuked. If your delicate feelings get hurt by people using the word “left” just ignore the thread and send an alert to the mods. You seem to have some hatred issues toward one party. 

Time to go outside and enjoy the beautiful weather. I enjoyed the thread for a while. Knew better than get involved but did enjoy it reading people’s thoughts on hats.  

Turn your hat around Saugeye.


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## scioto_alex (Dec 30, 2015)

Hats?

Put "fear of a black hat" into youtube.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Pooka said:


> It seems that very often politics are only a problem if they are not right wing politics. As soon as someone counters a rightie post, the fussing about politics starts -


..and everything someone says doesn't need a response.
Trust me, I and many others also have our own political opinions and we keep them to ourselves. Why you and the other guy want to blow this thread up and get it closed is beyond me. I wish the mods would give the offending parties 1 warning then if they still can't behave give them the boot. Then the rest of us who try to confirm to the rules could continues to enjoys the threads.


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

crappiedude said:


> ..and everything someone says doesn't need a response.
> Trust me, I and many others also have our own political opinions and we keep them to ourselves. Why you and the other guy want to blow this thread up and get it closed is beyond me. I wish the mods would give the offending parties 1 warning then if they still can't behave give them the boot. Then the rest of us who try to confirm to the rules could continues to enjoys the threads.


I am perfectly happy not to have any politics in fishing or other special interest boards. 
You have never and will never see me bring up partisan politics, first. 
I don't do it here, or anywhere that is not a political forum. 

On the other hand,, it is my opinion that ignoring the propaganda and lies of the right wing is how our Country got into this terrible mess to begin with. I have actually seen even threads on Catfish bait slimed by righites who just had to promote their silliness. Not long ago on a truck forum a thread on carburetors also fell victim to such. Our right apparently has no bounds or self control. 

If mods will not deal with it,, I, not being shy, will counter. 
IMO it is important for folks to know that not every ******* with an old car, truck, boat, gun, and fishing pole agrees with that silliness.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

glasseyes said:


> since this hasnt shut down yet Ill try to get one more in. My family when i was growing up always voted Democrat, ( fifty years ago ) when i grew up and found the Lord I imediately switched my vote to republican. To be clear i do not vote for the individual, i vote for the belief. Im pretty narrow minded when it comes to voting , Im against gay marriage and abortion so that makes it pretty easy for me to pick which party to vote for.


And thank God we live in a country where we can be this way!


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## Pooka (Jan 30, 2012)

bobk said:


> Pook,when people say right or left it doesn’t bother me. We all have our own beliefs. When you directly bash the president of our country and then suggest the “right” would rather be communist that’s a little too far..


You do know that is an actual Tshirt(s) sold and wore by some trump supporters,, yes?? 
It is. 
I suggested nothing, just reported the facts.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

crappiedude said:


> ..and everything someone says doesn't need a response.
> Trust me, I and many others also have our own political opinions and we keep them to ourselves. Why you and the other guy want to blow this thread up and get it closed is beyond me. I wish the mods would give the offending parties 1 warning then if they still can't behave give them the boot. Then the rest of us who try to confirm to the rules could continues to enjoys the threads.


You should be a mod. This kind of stuff isn’t needed on ogf.


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## Saugeyefisher (Jul 19, 2010)

bobk said:


> You should be a mod. This kind of stuff isn’t needed on ogf.


Your right 100%! On both.......


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Lost by 3 million. Electoral College has to be done away with.


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## DenOhio (Oct 18, 2016)

As for me, I’ll take my sick but so far cancer free body, my religion, political outlook and my granddaughter and go fishing.


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## ress (Jan 1, 2008)

Sounds like a plan.


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## WETSHIRT (Jun 29, 2012)

Pooka and Ress, smarter than our founding fathers! I feel privileged to be on the same board. Cal and NY deciding all our elections, what could go wrong?


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## cincinnati (May 24, 2004)

ress said:


> Lost by 3 million. Electoral College has to be done away with.


Here’s a couple guys who skipped a very important day in government class.

The electoral college was the genius forethought of our founding fathers, designed to ensure that ALL states, big & small, have a say in the governance of our great nation. Without it, only the top 10, or so, most populous states will make MAKE all the decisions. Maybe OK if you think the eggheads running the welfare states of CA, NY & IL are doing a great job but not so hot for everyone else who is paying the freight.


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## fastwater (Apr 1, 2014)

Deleted...not worth a response.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

bobk said:


> You should be a mod. This kind of stuff isn’t needed on ogf.


I don't think I could do it.
The mods have so much more restraint than I would. Heck we'd probably be out of members in a few months


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## Redheads (Jun 9, 2008)

crappiedude said:


> ..and everything someone says doesn't need a response.
> Trust me, I and many others also have our own political opinions and we keep them to ourselves. Why you and the other guy want to blow this thread up and get it closed is beyond me. I wish the mods would give the offending parties 1 warning then if they still can't behave give them the boot. Then the rest of us who try to confirm to the rules could continues to enjoys the threads.


As the creator of this thread and this only my second post in it I agree with this completely.

This was started to get the opinions of others while following the rules set by the mods.

Maybe just maybe i got the answer to my question in a way i didn't expect....Some people have their own agenda and will do what they want no matter whether its right or wrong with no respect towards others....Maybe this is were "times have changed"

I often say if there is an issue and something isn't right, look in the mirror and you will most likely see part of the problem if not the entire one.


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## crappiedude (Mar 12, 2006)

Redheads said:


> I often say if there is an issue and something isn't right, look in the mirror and you will most likely see part of the problem if not the entire one.


WOW....well said


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

Pooka said:


> Not long ago it was the fashion among young folks to not tie your shoes,, I always wondered if police did not secretly start that kind of silliness so they had an easier time running down young perps. LOL
> 
> But plumber's crack has been around longer than you have. As have old fogies bitching about young folks' fashions.
> It hasn't been than long since even a WW2 US Marines tattoo got you looked at sideways. I can remember blue haired old women remarking about them in disgust as late as the 70's.


I still don't tie mine


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## CoonDawg92 (Jun 1, 2016)

When I get frustrated about politics, government, the condition of our society, etc. I have to return to a foundational belief that I hold - we are imperfect people living in an imperfect, fallen world that is going to remain that way until the Creator restores it. People have done horrible things to each other for centuries on end.

My hope has to be in something greater than myself and other people as we are all incapable of completely living up to any system of rules, law, or beliefs that we consider right, no matter how well intended we are.

At the end of the day I vote my conscience, try to conduct myself in a way that reflects that hope, and trust that while I will fall short, that Fastwater's tag line is true.


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