# People killing Carp for the Fun



## iSeth

I know of a few people here in Knox County that go out and kill carp just for the heck of it. Torturing fish with knives and shooting them is not morally right, and is down right demented. How do you guys feel about this?


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## Bass Masterson

True sportsmen wouldn't do such a thing. Any fish that I catch is a privilege. I've heard lake Erie fishermen doing the same thing with sheepshead but on a day when the walleye are tight lipped, the sheep of the deep are a welcomed catch in my book.

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## catfishnut

iSeth said:


> I know of a few people here in Knox County that go out and kill carp just for the heck of it. Torturing fish with knives and shooting them is not morally right, and is down right demented. How do you guys feel about this?


Does your demented judgement also apply to those who shoot carp with a archery equipment?


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## Bass-Chad

catfishnut said:


> Does your demented judgement also apply to those who shoot carp with a archery equipment?


I would love to go bowfishing for Carp or Aligator Gar if I was ever down south far enough to see one. If you are going to eat the fish I do not see a problem with it at all. What is the difference of people using rifles to shoot deer? As long as you are using the fish in some manner I don't see a problem but, on the other hand if you are just shooting the fish then leaving it in a dumpster or something along them lines, that is when I have an issue. I have caught Carp before and it bled out from a gill hook, I gave it to a homeless man since I do not eat them.


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## iSeth

I myself would never kill fish with archery equipment because in my eyes it's not fishing, but in your defense it does take skill.


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## iSeth

Bass-Chad said:


> I would love to go bowfishing for Carp or Aligator Gar if I was ever down south far enough to see one. If you are going to eat the fish I do not see a problem with it at all. What is the difference of people using rifles to shoot deer? As long as you are using the fish in some manner I don't see a problem but, on the other hand if you are just shooting the fish then leaving it in a dumpster or something along them lines, that is when I have an issue. I have caught Carp before and it bled out from a gill hook, I gave it to a homeless man since I do not eat them.




Yes, If your eating the fish it's perfectly fine. Killing it for the fun of it is just messed up.


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## KatseekN

Though this subject has been beat to death on these forums. My 2 cents is that as long as its legal I don't have a problem with it. In the case of shooting carp this is beneficial to our fisheries. Carp are invasive species. Ethically fish are not sympathetic creatures and therefore death is not a negative experience for its fellow fish. Death by archery equipment is realatively quick compared to other ways fish may die at the hands of men. Deeply hooked gamefish often suffocate due to lack of water movement through there gills. Yet we all still fish. Id much rather go by arrow then drowned. The way I see it have fun shoot carp with archery equipment, just dispose of carcasses appropriately.

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## jonnythfisherteen2

The bad thing is that they are wasting perfectly good fish. Carp, when marinated is good fish to eat. And preparing the fish is easy, just cut off the skin and take the lightest meat in the fish.


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## Ðe§perado™

KatseekN said:


> Though this subject has been beat to death on these forums. My 2 cents is that as long as its legal I don't have a problem with it. In the case of shooting carp this is beneficial to our fisheries. Carp are invasive species. Ethically fish are not sympathetic creatures and therefore death is not a negative experience for its fellow fish. Death by archery equipment is realatively quick compared to other ways fish may die at the hands of men. Deeply hooked gamefish often suffocate due to lack of water movement through there gills. Yet we all still fish. Id much rather go by arrow then drowned. The way I see it have fun shoot carp with archery equipment, just dispose of carcasses appropriately.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Well said!!!


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## viper1

Well i agree that killing for no reason is wrong. I disagree carb is good to eat. First because they feed in the muddy bottoms were your pollutants all lay. Second because i have tried many ways and to me they are to oily. I know people who will though. When i was younger i killed them when caught and used them to fertilize my garden. I would rather go all day with out a bite then catch one. But if you like them thats great.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## Bluegill_Guru

Bass-Chad said:


> I would love to go bowfishing for Carp or Aligator Gar if I was ever down south far enough to see one. If you are going to eat the fish I do not see a problem with it at all. What is the difference of people using rifles to shoot deer? As long as you are using the fish in some manner I don't see a problem but, on the other hand if you are just shooting the fish then leaving it in a dumpster or something along them lines, that is when I have an issue. I have caught Carp before and it bled out from a gill hook, I gave it to a homeless man since I do not eat them.


+1 Especially on giving that Carp to a homeless man. You are a class act Chad.

I personally don't think one should kill anything for absolutely no purpose whatsoever. It is wasting resources and creation that God has given to us (and other animals), not only as food, but also as a source of enjoyment when we get to witness these animals in their natural habitat.

Just because it may be "legal" to throw what we consider a "nuisance" on the bank to suffocate and rot in the sun, should not clear one's conscious of guilt. This especially applies to public waters since sport fishermen are not the only ones that fish these waters. Case in point is if every sport fisherman tossed every fish they didn't like onto the banks, this would reduce the chances of a family looking to catch their meal for the day, of ending up with a full stomach. Sure that seems like an exaggerated circumstance, but even one fish could of cured the "grum-bellies" of a starving person. And when you look at it like that, it kind of puts things into perspective of how easily we can just fall into a state of complacency where our "needs" of "pleasure" outweigh genuine needs of sustenance.

Now the above could look like I am waving a PETA flag here, but believe me, I abhor PETA and the other institutions like them that use people's emotions against them for the corporate gain of the institutions under the guise of "saving the animals". Animals are not equal to humans.

The "wild card" here is those certain species considered a "nuisance" by the divisions of wildlife and other people. I personally don't feel this holds any credence since public waters #1 purpose is not sport fishing. Carp for example are blamed for reducing Bass populations among other "sport fish", by "destroying" spawning beds and other habitat with their constant rummaging on the bottom for food.

If one's only argument for killing Carp is to make their favorite sport fish more able to thrive, then this is just selfishness. You are making the judgement call of what life is worth more and the "worth" is based on what gives you more "pleasure". Sounds silly doesn't it?

Owner's of private waters have the right to have what fish species they want in their ponds. And if I didn't want Carp in my pond, I would certainly get rid of them but I would put them as a "resource" to work in the process by one of the following ways:

1. Feed people.
2. Feed animals. (if your pond has Channel Cats in it, feed them cut up Carp chunks)
3. Feed the soil. (fertilize your garden)

All three will put the natural resource given in the form of a Carp (or other fish/animal) to use for the purpose they were created for in the first place. All three will also put that resource on the fast track to giving some human being a full stomach.


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## Burks

$10 says if you killed one of those "fisherman's" favorite fish, they'd throw a freaking hissy fit.


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## BBO Ohio

I agree if it's legal so what. There's too many them in our water ways! What are you going to do when those jumping Asian carp start swimming in the Ohio river or even worse....... Lake Erie!!!???


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## jonnythfisherteen2

BBO Ohio said:


> I agree if it's legal so what. There's too many them in our water ways! What are you going to do when those jumping Asian carp start swimming in the Ohio river or even worse....... Lake Erie!!!???
> 
> 
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I think we were talking about common carp. Not Asian carp.


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## BBO Ohio

Doesn't matter. There both invasive and if left unchecked can kill a fish population just the same as Asian carp


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## jonnythfisherteen2

Mind explaining to me how common carp can kill a fish population? Just making sure you're not pulling facts out your butt.
And from what I'm reading here, they were introduced into this county over 100 years ago, so they aren't "invasive"


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## JimmyMac

I left this comment in another carp thread, still waiting on someone to answer me. 


How long have carp been in our waters? I know my grandpa mentioned catching big ole carp when he was a kid, well over 70 years ago. Carp have been in our waters longer than anyone on this board has been alive, you have all had your best day fishing, likely with carp swimming in the water... But suddenly they are hurting stuff and need to be removed? Are we so sure that carp are really the problem here?... If something has been in a body of water for say... 100 years? I'd go ahead and call it native.

Asian (silver) carp on the other hand, seem to be a real issue.

*edit*
After a quick google search, it seems the common carp was introduced to American waters in 1831. Damn they had that long to destroy our waterways and haven't done so yet?... They are slackin. The gar and flathead catfish have been around much longer than that, man those guys really fail at knocking off those game species.


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## Matulemj

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> Mind explaining to me how common carp can kill a fish population? Just making sure you're not pulling facts out your butt.
> And from what I'm reading here, they were introduced into this county over 100 years ago, so they aren't "invasive"


Introduced in 1870. Ohio waters are doing just fine. If you are utilizing the fish for something other then your own personal satisfaction of killing something, then whats the problem? If you are just killing things just to kill them, then you are weird. That's how Ted Bundy started out. Don't be a Ted Bundy.


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## JSykes3

I don't think there are more carp then anything else in our waterways. I think there might be just as much if not less then other fish. Carp are just the fish we see the most because they don't hide in seaweed or stay out of sight. When they feed then come very close to shore or to the top of the water unlike our other fish. I may be wrong though. I don't see why people should torture them either.


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## BBO Ohio

I'm not saying killing them for no reason is right. For my earlier comment just like the Asian carp if they become over populated they use up a food source that many bait fish use as food. When the foods gone there's no bait fish there's no bait fish there's no fish


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## Bluegill_Guru

BBO Ohio said:


> I agree if it's legal so what. There's too many them in our water ways!





BBO Ohio said:


> Doesn't matter. There both invasive and if left unchecked can kill a fish population...


My problem with this logic is as follows:

First, if you were talking about a lake you personally owned, then it is your right to have what fish in that lake you want to have in it.

But since we are talking about public water that I have as much right to fish (properly licensed of course) as you do, your logic is selfish. 

What if I go to a lake intent on only fishing for Carp? With your logic your preferred species of choice to fish for have more rights than mine do. That isn't right by anyone's standards. Not to mention if you go hellbent on what in your mind would be a justifiable killing spree of Carp, then you have just eradicated the species from that lake I paid $19 to the state of Ohio to be legal to fish for.

Even if Carp put a hurting on say a lake's Bass population, so what? Where is it written that Bass fishermen have more rights than Carp fishermen? If you seen me throwing every legal Bass I catch on the bank from a lake with no limit, you would be irate. But guess what, it would be legal. 

I am not trying to be disrespectful here, just show you how this can hurt other fishermen (or ladies) that love to fish for Carp and have paid the $19 to fish just like you did.


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## BBO Ohio

Let me say this again. I never said its right to just throw a carp or any fish for that matter on the bank and lay. But your right. You pay just like I do if your a carp fishermen. But I'm not going to continue in this convo to only get bashed for my opinion. Not angry 


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## jonnythfisherteen2

BBO Ohio said:


> Let me say this again. I never said its right to just throw a carp or any fish for that matter on the bank and lay. But your right. You pay just like I do if your a carp fishermen. But I'm not going to continue in this convo to only get bashed for my opinion. Not angry
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


you never said it was your opinion.


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## Bluegill_Guru

BBO Ohio said:


> But I'm not going to continue in this convo to only get bashed for my opinion.


I wasn't trying to bash your opinion, but rather see if you could see it from my point of view on why that sort of opinion could be wrong. I imagine a lot of people that look at Carp like you do, don't ever really think about the Carp fishermen. I was just trying to shed some much needed light upon those that love to fish for Carp.

You are entitled to your opinion friend, but sometimes opinions that lead to actions (tossing Carp) can ruin another person's potential good time enjoying the same thing that you are --- Fishing.

:edit:

An interesting note here. The Global Invasive Species Database has a list of the 100 worst invasive species on the planet. On that list their are only 8 species of fish, and that include Common Carp and Largemouth Bass. Rainbow Trout are also on the list.


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## viper1

Another arguments on personal opinions. If the law says it 's legal then nobody else really has a choice any more. Another thing, it is not legal to kill any fish and throw on shore that i am aware of. Of coarse people do! Why, why rape ,kill or rob? It's any ones guess. And them are not the people who care what you think! I disagree with killing of any thing. But I have three conditions I will. 1.too Eat, 2. Stop damage 3. for defense and protection. Too me I have no use for people who kill for any other reason that i can think of. But i'll be the first to admit i wasnt that way in my youth. Don't think there is any law allowing you to kill fish of any kind your not wanting to eat. I could be wrong though!


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## PolymerStew

Can't say that I approve of people killing carp, gar, or other fish simply for fun. If they're going to eat it or use it as bait or if it is a legitimate problem species (asian carp), then fine go ahead and harvest them and use them for something. If the DNR biologists announce "we really need to reduce the population of this species by any means available to protect the fishery" then yeah, go ahead and take them out. 

I know that anecdotal evidence says that common carp are a nuisance, but I'd like to read some current, scientific studies on their impact. After all, if you've watched "River Monsters" or "Monster Fish" they talk about how persecuted the alligator gar was for years because the prevailing views considered a nuisance species, but modern biologists consider it a valuable apex predator. Common carp have been in our lakes for nearly 150 years, if they haven't taken over yet, they probably aren't going to.

I suspect a lot of the problems with lakes in the past 50 years or so being attributed to carp such as eutrophication or decline of gamefish species is more man-made than due to the carp. Lets take Lake Rockwell as an example. I always hear people talking about how there's giant, state record-breaking fish in there and they'd give their left nut to fish in there. Bet you anything there's carp in there, but the lake has a very healthy fishery. Why? Almost no fishing access and no power boats. Sure carp can stir up the sediment a bit, but have you seen what a jet ski or speed boat tearing at full bore through 6 ft water does to the lake bed? Puts a nice cloud of sediment up in the water. Add to that farm runoff or people living on the lakes dumping all kinds of fertilizer on their lawns and you've got a recipe for weed choked lakes. And the decline in big gamefish is largely due to a rise in fishing pressure. It wasn't the carp that caused all of the big panfish in Mogadore to disappear, it was people keeping buckets of big gills and crappie. 

Until I see some reports in peer reviewed journals by limnologists or biologists showing common carp having a large negative impact on lakes, I'll keep putting any of them I catch back in the water.


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## Vince™

Great post Polymer :good:


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## Ðe§perado™

:Banane26:


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## Burks

Bluegill_Guru said:


> If you seen me throwing every legal Bass I catch on the bank from a lake with no limit, you would be irate. But guess what, it would be legal.


It's funny but absolutely true. You can't argue that at all. 

I fish for a lot of species, and carp is NOT on my list. But senseless killing of any animal, legal or not, is just ignorant. Now Asian Carp and such that truly is devastating fisheries, then yes go for it. But "carp" have been in Ohio waters for longer than any of us have ever been here. Until the ODNR says there is a problem, I doubt there is one. You just happen to see these brightly colored surface dwellers more often than other fish.

Guaranteed if you just took bass, started killing them and leaving them in piles, someone would call the police, FBI, ODNR, and Obama to report it. Muskie? There may be a full out riot.


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## TheCream

OK, I have a plan. This will take some time, but I think we can do it. Let's call it "Operation: Protect the Bass." Here's what we do:

-Common carp: kill 'em, they stir up the water and hurt the bass spawning areas
-Catfish (flathead, channels, and blues): kill 'em, they eat too many small bass and can also stir up the bottom
-Bluegills/Sunfish: Kill 'em, they eat too many bass fry and raid spawning beds
-Crappies: kill 'em, I'm sure they eat too many minnows and that is bass food
-Muskies: kill 'em before they kill the bass
-Gar: kill 'em, just because they are ugly and probably eat baby bass, too
-Walleyes/Sauger/Saugeyes: kill 'em, too much bass food is consumed by them
-Herons/Kingfishers: kill 'em, they kill bass food and probably baby bass, too
-Snakes: do I need to say it? Nobody likes snakes, especially not bass, so kill 'em

Basically all a waterway or impoundment needs to thrive are bass and minnows. Anything else is expendable. 

:T


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## KaGee

sarcasm alert! 



thecream said:


> ok, i have a plan. This will take some time, but i think we can do it. Let's call it "operation: Protect the bass." here's what we do:
> 
> -common carp: Kill 'em, they stir up the water and hurt the bass spawning areas
> -catfish (flathead, channels, and blues): Kill 'em, they eat too many small bass and can also stir up the bottom
> -bluegills/sunfish: Kill 'em, they eat too many bass fry and raid spawning beds
> -crappies: Kill 'em, i'm sure they eat too many minnows and that is bass food
> -muskies: Kill 'em before they kill the bass
> -gar: Kill 'em, just because they are ugly and probably eat baby bass, too
> -walleyes/sauger/saugeyes: Kill 'em, too much bass food is consumed by them
> -herons/kingfishers: Kill 'em, they kill bass food and probably baby bass, too
> -snakes: Do i need to say it? Nobody likes snakes, especially not bass, so kill 'em
> 
> basically all a waterway or impoundment needs to thrive are bass and minnows. Anything else is expendable.
> 
> :t


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## wallydvr

Wait till the asian carp come in to your fisheries. I bet you won't be as sympathetic when your fisheries start dieing. every odnr biologist I've ran into has been very grateful of my service legally taking carp with my bow. If people would do the research before running there mouths they may realize the benefits to keeping the population in check. Is this a hunting and fishing website or a tree hugging site. 

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## Bluegill_Guru

wallydvr said:


> Wait till the asian carp come in to your fisheries. I bet you won't be as sympathetic when your fisheries start dieing. every odnr biologist I've ran into has been very grateful of my service legally taking carp with my bow. If people would do the research before running there mouths they may realize the benefits to keeping the population in check. Is this a hunting and fishing website or a tree hugging site.


Research before running our mouths? How about you actually read our posts before jumping to conclusions. No where in this thread is anyone talking about Asian Carp. We are talking about Common Carp, which like Polymer and several others have pointed out already, have been with us and our fisheries for over 150 years. And guess what, we all are still fishing because the fisheries are still just fine.

I agree that Common Carp can be a problem, but so can Largemouth Bass. It just depends upon what species you are trying to foster in your fishery, and since public waters are all "our" fisheries, then there should be no dispute that all fishermen and their respective species of choice should be represented with the same amount of fairness and right to exist.

Tree hugging? Not even in the slightest friend. I am a staunch anti-tree hugger, but I believe in what is known as Good Stewardship, and that extends to all species, even those that I dislike. For instance, I am not much a fan of Walleye, but I don't think I have any right to take my legal limit of Walleye and just pitch them to the wayside. That is not "tree hugging", that is being respectful to not only the Creator of all things, but also to the fishermen that love to catch Walleye.


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## wallydvr

Sorry bud I guess I should start eating the mice I catch in my garage too. I dont waist my carp. I feed them to my raccoons. Carp are a non native species brought to ohio water s in 1879. They primarily eat fish eggs and minnows in the spring. It is a pest just like zebra mussels, gobies, snakehead ect. I do agree they are not as bad as some other non native species, but there population needs to be kept in check. So until more people start eating them, I'll keep shooting them.

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## Vince™

wallydvr said:


> Wait till the asian carp come in to your fisheries. I bet you won't be as sympathetic when your fisheries start dieing. every odnr biologist I've ran into has been very grateful of my service legally taking carp with my bow. If people would do the research before running there mouths they may realize the benefits to keeping the population in check. Is this a hunting and fishing website or a tree hugging site.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


This is the exact ignorance I run into when telling people I fish for Carp. 

FUN FACT: Did you know Snakes and Snakeheads are the EXACT SAME??!! I mean they both have snake in their name. KILL THEM ALL. /sarcasm


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## TheCream

wallydvr said:


> Sorry bud I guess I should start eating the mice I catch in my garage too. I dont waist my carp. I feed them to my raccoons. Carp are a non native species brought to ohio water s in 1879. They primarily eat fish eggs and minnows in the spring. It is a pest just like zebra mussels, gobies, snakehead ect. I do agree they are not as bad as some other non native species, but there population needs to be kept in check. So until more people start eating them, I'll keep shooting them.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


You know, in all the time I have fished in Ohio, I don't recall ever seeing a carp raid a bass spawning bed for eggs. I have seen sunfish do it. A lot. So are the non-native common carp harder on the bass spawning beds than the native sunfish?


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## TheCream

And for the record, I'd love to know why the folks crying about them being non-native don't seem to complain about the non-native trout stocked in Ohio lakes...or the non-native hybrid striped bass (which according to the DNR site can't occur naturally)...stocked saugeye...stocked blue catfish...

Asian flying carp, that are a threat and reproduce like rabbits, that were NOT introduced on purpose, I understand concern about them. Common carp have been here since the late 1800's, were introduced on purpose, and the sky is all of a sudden *now falling*? I don't buy it, and I don't see it.


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## Bass-Chad

Is it a full moon? People are off their rockers these past few days. Don't take stuff too literal (*I guess I should start eating the mice I catch in my garage too*.) That is just Trying to start an argument with someone, why pick a fight over the internet? If you feel common carp are such an issue write a letter to your state rep. They won't give you the reaction you are seeking by poking the fire with sarcastic comments but, if you truly think carp are effecting bass beds so badly write a letter. Not saying you're the only one but, your post caught my eye.


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## wallydvr

I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm trying to defend my sport. I guess we should agree to disagree. If anyone would like all the free carp you could eat, sho ot me a pm. I will keep them on ice until you pick them up. Sorry again.

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## Bluegill_Guru

wallydvr said:


> I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm trying to defend my sport.


I honestly don't have any problem with bowhunting for Carp or other "rough" fish, as long as you are doing it for the sport. My problem is with people "getting rid" of Carp by any means whether by hook or by bow just to get rid of them from public waters. I am not saying this is you, but rather the mentality that hurts Carp fishing, Bowfin fishing, and Gar fishing, to name a few.


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## wallydvr

Im the idiot? I made a reference to asian carp, that was it. every one is entitled to an opinion. It is fact that an over population of any species in a ecosystem can be detrimental to the entire ecosystem to include the over populated species. I'm helping keep that in check. If you don't agree thats fine. But don't call me a idiot cause you dont agree. When odnr tells me its not beneficial I will stop shooting carp. so if you wanna put a "bulleye " on my back so be it. My home lake is mosquito one of the top bass lakes in ohio. I'm not a bass fisherman but have alot of friends that are. They shake my hand all the time for doing what I do. Hey tight lines to all.

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## wallydvr

Bluegill_Guru said:


> I honestly don't have any problem with bowhunting for Carp or other "rough" fish, as long as you are doing it for the sport. My problem is with people "getting rid" of Carp by any means whether by hook or by bow just to get rid of them from public waters. I am not saying this is you, but rather the mentality that hurts Carp fishing, Bowfin fishing, and Gar fishing, to name a few.


I totally agree and if you look at some of my post from the bowfishing section you would understand how strong I feel about this. 

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## Mr. A

Am I missing something here? Here's a couple of point to ponder:

1) where in Ohio is anyone catching Snakehead? There not, so that seems silly to even address. If they were they dang sure better be telling the ODNR so they can be addressed.

2) wheather you agree with it or not harvesting carp by bow or traditional means is legal and also, seems to be a moot point and silly to argue over....

3) killing a fish simply for personal enjoyment seems to be how serial killers start. Having a reason like sport, food, recreation, etc. Seems to take it out of the serial killer mode.

4) for all the gum flappin' going on about how fisherman try to help one another out and promote stewerdship with past and present generations, it sure looks like we can't meet that goal when we still can't accept each other's view of what fish is fun to catch for any purpose....

Sorry, just my 2 cents.....

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## Vince™

wallydvr said:


> Im the idiot? I made a reference to asian carp, that was it. every one is entitled to an opinion. It is fact that an over population of any species in a ecosystem can be detrimental to the entire ecosystem to include the over populated species. I'm helping keep that in check. If you don't agree thats fine. But don't call me a idiot cause you dont agree. When odnr tells me its not beneficial I will stop shooting carp. so if you wanna put a "bulleye " on my back so be it. My home lake is mosquito one of the top bass lakes in ohio. I'm not a bass fisherman but have alot of friends that are. They shake my hand all the time for doing what I do. Hey tight lines to all.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Did someone call you an idiot? I couldn't find it in the thread. If you are referring to my "ignorance" post, I was simply stating that most people don't distinguish the two types of carp, but rather lump them in the same category because they have carp in their name. They are not knowledgeable on the subject. That is where the snake/snakehead comment came from. It's using the same logic.


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## wallydvr

Some one did and it was taken off.

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## MassillonBuckeye

You really think you are making an impression on the carp population in our waters? Are your numbers up or down this year out of curiosity?


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## TheCream

wallydvr said:


> Im the idiot? I made a reference to asian carp, that was it. every one is entitled to an opinion. *It is fact that an over population of any species in a ecosystem can be detrimental to the entire ecosystem to include the over populated species*. I'm helping keep that in check. If you don't agree thats fine. But don't call me a idiot cause you dont agree. When odnr tells me its not beneficial I will stop shooting carp. so if you wanna put a "bulleye " on my back so be it. My home lake is mosquito one of the top bass lakes in ohio. *I'm not a bass fisherman but have alot of friends that are*. They shake my hand all the time for doing what I do. Hey tight lines to all.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Do your friends cull the bass herd much?


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## JimmyMac

Whats funny about this is how Japan right now has carp anglers killing largemouth bass as LM are not native and are hurting the population of Japanese minnow and bream, carp and trout anglers hate them and want them gone. Japan also holds the world record LM over North America.


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## [email protected]

Personally, I believe there are more significant battles to which our energy should be directed. I was also taught not to kill something you not going to eat yet the person who taught me this made an exception for carp. Do you eat the weeds you pull from your garden?

Research related to the effects of common carp on native species. From what I've read there are no positive impacts of the addition or existance of common carp outside of their food value for people.

From the Global Invasive Species Database http://www.issg.org/database/species/impact_info.asp?si=60&fr=1&sts=&lang=EN
_C. carpio is the third most frequently introduced species world-wide (Welcomme 1992, in Saikia & Das 2009). *On every continent where it has been introduced it has reduced water quality and degraded aquatic habitats* (McCrimmon 1968, Roberts et al. 1995, King et al. 1997, Koehn et al. 2000, in Jones & Stuart 2006)._



From http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?speciesID=4
_Impact of Introduction: The common carp is regarded as a pest fish because of its widespread abundance and because of its tendency to destroy vegetation and increase water turbidity by dislodging plants and rooting around in the substrate, causing a deterioration of habitat for species requiring vegetation and clean water (Cole 1905; Cahoon 1953; Bellrichard 1996; Laird and Page 1996). Available literature indicates common carp may destroy aquatic macrophytes directly by uprooting or consuming the plants, or indirectly by increasing turbidity and thereby reducing light for photosynthesis. Bellrichard (1996) found that alterations in macrophyte biomass are due more to direct effects of common carp. In their review of the literature, Richardson et al. (1995) concluded that common carp has had noted adverse effects on biological systems including destruction of vegetated breeding habitats used by both fish and birds, and an increase in turbidity. It stirs up the bottom during feeding, resulting in increased siltation and turbidity (Lee et al. 1980 et seq.). This feeding behavior also destroys rooted aquatic plants that provide habitat for native fish species and food for waterfowl (Dentler 1993). There is also evidence that common carp prey on the eggs of other fish species (Moyle 1976a; Taylor et al. 1984; Miller and Beckman 1996). For this reason, it may be responsible for the decline of the razorback sucker Xyrauchen texanus in the Colorado River basin (Taylor et al. 1984). In another case, Miller and Beckman (1996) documented white sturgeon Acipenser transmontanus eggs in the stomachs of common carp in the Columbia River. In California, carp have been implicated in the decrease in water clarity in Clear Lake, Lake County, and in the gradual disappearance of native fishes (Moyle 1976a). McCarraher and Gregory (1970) wrote that in 1894 there was documentation that Sacramento perch Archoplites interruptus were becoming more scarce because carp was destroying their spawning grounds. Laird and Page (1996) stated that common carp may compete with ecologically similar species such as carpsuckers and buffalos. Because this species has been present in many areas since the first surveys, its impacts on many of the native fishes are difficult to determine. Once established in a water body, common carp is difficult and expensive to eliminate (e.g., Cahoon 1953)._

Other reading with more citations within:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

http://www.springerlink.com/content/v2105252328064x7/


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## wallydvr

Good read, good post pond.

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## Lundy

Mr. A said:


> 3) killing a fish simply for personal enjoyment seems to be how serial killers start. Having a reason like sport, food, recreation, etc. Seems to take it out of the serial killer mode.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Now I am concerned for everyone living near me. I never knew killing carp just to kill them was a step in that direction.

I have killed in excess of 500 in my life. Is there a ratio for the number killed to how likely you are to become a serial killer?


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## MassillonBuckeye

Lundy said:


> Now I am concerned for everyone living near me. I never knew killing carp just to kill them was a step in that direction.
> 
> I have killed in excess of 500 in my life. Is there a ratio for the number killed to how likely you are to become a serial killer?


For what reason? Just curious.

But no, correlation does not imply causation


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## wallydvr

It isn't worth it lundy.lol 

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## fontinalis

Here is where i stand on the issue
There are some bodies of water in ohio that would benefit some carp taken out of it.

Carp don't cause crappy water conditions, they tend to just thrive in it, st mary's for example. They didn't cause the lake to be a big warm shallow overly fertile septic pool, the conditions in the watershed did that, but it just so happens that they can tolerate it better than most other fish so they get blamed for the bass vanishing. 

I think killing fish just to kill them sucks no matter how you do it, sticking gar nose down in the mud, releasing sheephead aerially with the gills still in your hand, Chopping heads off, throwing bullheads into the weeds, Its just stupid.

Carp are not native to ohio, true but neither are brown trout, rainbow trout, pheasant, saugeye, HSB, etc.... I dont understand why people make a big stink about a non native fish living in a lake that was built less than 100 years ago, there is hardly anything native or natural about 90% of our lakes, they are just huge aquariums.
Yes, asian carp and snakeheads suck, bigtime whole different story. Those you can kill by the dumpsterfull.

I do not understand bowfishing, i dont like it, but on the other side of the coin most guys dont like fly fishing. I think its the mentality of most, NOT ALL, bowfisherman."Lets kill as many things as we can and throw them in a huge bucket" I cant stand it, i think it makes about as much sense as a turd flavored popsicle. OK, shoot some carp, go for it. But why do they feel the need to skewer gar, bowfin, buffalo, and suckers? They are native, they cause no harm to your precious centrarchids, and they will never over populate a major waterway. Ok im done, I meant no offense to anyone in particular, so please do not take something i said and turn it into something extreme. This post id probably riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, but i have been drinking and like the honey badger, i just dont give a schnidt.


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## Andrew S

fontinalis said:


> like the honey badger, i just dont give a schnidt.


You probably eat cobras, too. That's just nasty.


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## [email protected]

fontinalis said:


> Carp don't cause crappy water conditions, they tend to just thrive in it, st mary's for example. They didn't cause the lake to be a big warm shallow overly fertile septic pool, the conditions in the watershed did that, but it just so happens that they can tolerate it better than most other fish so they get blamed for the bass vanishing.
> 
> .



_
"Impact of Introduction: The common carp is regarded as a pest fish because of its widespread abundance and because of its tendency to destroy vegetation and increase water turbidity by dislodging plants and rooting around in the substrate, causing a deterioration of habitat for species requiring vegetation and clean water (Cole 1905; Cahoon 1953; Bellrichard 1996; Laird and Page 1996)"_

91 years of research by established and excepted scientists must be wrong.

This wouldn't be nearly as interesting if everybody cited actual research though.

How do you guys feel about torturing poor shiners and fatheads by using them for bait? How about yellow bullheads?

Why are asian carp so bad? From what I've read lately, they will not have as big an impact as common carp in our climate.


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## viper1

After reading that article of Asian carp i am wanting to get my hands on some. Seem they may be a good meat source. But as far as our Natural carp.(now i know they were imported but been here so long and got such a hold I call them that) I wouldn't eat them or even think about it. If for no other reason their feeding habits make them bad. To many pollutants to do it. But these feed on top and some of our great chiefs say they are great. They raise them for food not like the regular carp for decoration. 
But any way if its legal its legal. I really after all this talking see no moral issues in this. If you like carp fine , if not fine. Can't really compare a carp to a pan fish or a sport fish. I do notice carp fishing is getting more popular these days. And I don't see it happening, but if enough people start its possible one day may be considered a sport fish. But for now the lowly Carp is on the bottom of the list. No matter who likes it. Everyones got their passion, be it bass, walleye or even carp. And will argue their the best. But look at the numbers and it's plain what fish rate compared to other fish. So fish and be happy. And no matter how many carp some one kills it will never be a shortage. They can live in water where only a cat or carp man would go. Wont catch a bass fisherman any where near. So they are safe! LOL


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## Bluegill_Guru

fontinalis said:


> Here is where i stand on the issue
> There are some bodies of water in ohio that would benefit some carp taken out of it.
> 
> Carp don't cause crappy water conditions, they tend to just thrive in it, st mary's for example. They didn't cause the lake to be a big warm shallow overly fertile septic pool, the conditions in the watershed did that, but it just so happens that they can tolerate it better than most other fish so they get blamed for the bass vanishing.
> 
> I think killing fish just to kill them sucks no matter how you do it, sticking gar nose down in the mud, releasing sheephead aerially with the gills still in your hand, Chopping heads off, throwing bullheads into the weeds, Its just stupid.
> 
> Carp are not native to ohio, true but neither are brown trout, rainbow trout, pheasant, saugeye, HSB, etc.... I dont understand why people make a big stink about a non native fish living in a lake that was built less than 100 years ago, there is hardly anything native or natural about 90% of our lakes, they are just huge aquariums.
> Yes, asian carp and snakeheads suck, bigtime whole different story. Those you can kill by the dumpsterfull.
> 
> I do not understand bowfishing, i dont like it, but on the other side of the coin most guys dont like fly fishing. I think its the mentality of most, NOT ALL, bowfisherman."Lets kill as many things as we can and throw them in a huge bucket" I cant stand it, i think it makes about as much sense as a turd flavored popsicle. OK, shoot some carp, go for it. But why do they feel the need to skewer gar, bowfin, buffalo, and suckers? They are native, they cause no harm to your precious centrarchids, and they will never over populate a major waterway. Ok im done, I meant no offense to anyone in particular, so please do not take something i said and turn it into something extreme. This post id probably riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, but i have been drinking and like the honey badger, i just dont give a schnidt.


+1 Good post.


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## viper1

Well Guru I pretty much feel the same. And agree with most all you said in cluding the not giving a........ LOL Have one for me.


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## JimmyMac

I think people need to be more specific on this damn thread. Talking about common carp and Asian (silver) carp are two completely different things. Common carp aren't hurting anything, they've been here long enough to prove that... Asian carp are a destructive nasty fish that absolutely needs to be eliminated.


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## fontinalis

[email protected] said:


> _
> "Impact of Introduction: The common carp is regarded as a pest fish because of its widespread abundance and because of its tendency to destroy vegetation and increase water turbidity by dislodging plants and rooting around in the substrate, causing a deterioration of habitat for species requiring vegetation and clean water (Cole 1905; Cahoon 1953; Bellrichard 1996; Laird and Page 1996)"_
> 
> 91 years of research by established and excepted scientists must be wrong.
> 
> This wouldn't be nearly as interesting if everybody cited actual research though.
> 
> How do you guys feel about torturing poor shiners and fatheads by using them for bait? How about yellow bullheads?
> 
> Why are asian carp so bad? From what I've read lately, they will not have as big an impact as common carp in our climate.


Wow, you know how to copy and paste old out of date info i am impressed. this is exactly the type of comment i was expecting to get in reply, if i really wanted to i could bury the thread with citations that nobody wants to read that would show facts and information for my side of the argument. 

And as far as the shiners, i don't use bait, so i don't really know what to tell you there.

Why are asian carp so bad? Are you serious? I honestly cannot answer that question without making you very angry at me. 
Ok, back to feasting on cobra, then a nap.


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## Andrew S

[email protected] said:


> _
> 
> How do you guys feel about torturing poor shiners and fatheads by using them for bait? How about yellow bullheads?
> _


_

I can't speak for others, but I don't see this as equivalent. The end result is the same, i.e. a dead fish. But the point of using shiners as bait is to use shiners as bait. The point of shooting carp is to shoot carp. That is, in one case the death of the fish is necessary to achieve another end. In the other, the death of the fish is the point. Now, if people treated carp the same way they treated other (introduced) game animals, i.e. shot what they needed to eat or skin or whatever, I'd see bow fishing as just another form of bowhunting. And in some cases, that's what people do. I also see the appeal of bow fishing from an archery perspective. I did some as a kid, and it's fun. 

I don't really worry about anybody depleting my carp, which I happen to like to fish for. (I also am not convinced that bow fishing in most cases really serves as an effective control mechanism, but I could be wrong. Seems to me the few cases of effective eradication have required much, much more intensive efforts, i.e. large-scale netting, poisoning, etc. I find the argument that bow fishers shoot carp because they're motived by some sort of conservation duty to be pretty unconvincing.)

What bothers me, personally, about the practice of shooting large numbers of carp just to toss them in the garden is that it seems, to me, that the real goal here is simply to shoot large numbers of animals. The disposal in the garden is just what happens afterwards, but it's hardly the goal. This seems unlike virtually all other forms of hunting except "varmint" hunting where, for example, somebody shoots large numbers of prairie dogs but doesn't utilize them for anything.

The reason this bothers me isn't because a large biomass of carp goes in the garden. They're here to stay, like it or not.

It bothers me because it's anathema to my own idea of what it means to be a "sportsman". In other words, I'm bothered by the human behavior involved in bow fishing, not the effects on the carp or the carp populations.

That said, there are plenty of people (my wife included) who are bothered by the human behavior involved in hook-and-line fishing. 

Seems to me, the answers, if they're out there, are not easy ones._


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## fishinnick

I agree with the majority of people who posted. If you are using the fish(eating, trapping bait, etc.) then I have no problem killing carp, but if you're shooting it(or catching it via rod and reel) and just throwing it on the bank to die imo is just wrong and stupid. 

Yeah, I don't like to see people doing it to carp, but what really makes me mad is people killing native fish(suckers, bowfin, sheephead, bullheads) for no reason. Just yesterday I was fishing a localish river and came across a bowfisherman who shot about 3 suckers, and what did he do? He threw them in the woods. 

There's a watershed in PA that actually has a pretty good population of bowfin, and I have seen countless 'fins dead along the shoreline. 

I've heard of people cutting the heads off of sheephead in Erie. That is wrong and no true fisherman would ever even consider doing that.


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## buckeyebowman

fontinalis said:


> Here is where i stand on the issue
> There are some bodies of water in ohio that would benefit some carp taken out of it.
> 
> Carp don't cause crappy water conditions, they tend to just thrive in it, st mary's for example. They didn't cause the lake to be a big warm shallow overly fertile septic pool, the conditions in the watershed did that, but it just so happens that they can tolerate it better than most other fish so they get blamed for the bass vanishing.
> 
> I think killing fish just to kill them sucks no matter how you do it, sticking gar nose down in the mud, releasing sheephead aerially with the gills still in your hand, Chopping heads off, throwing bullheads into the weeds, Its just stupid.
> 
> Carp are not native to ohio, true but neither are brown trout, rainbow trout, pheasant, saugeye, HSB, etc.... I dont understand why people make a big stink about a non native fish living in a lake that was built less than 100 years ago, there is hardly anything native or natural about 90% of our lakes, they are just huge aquariums.
> Yes, asian carp and snakeheads suck, bigtime whole different story. Those you can kill by the dumpsterfull.
> 
> I do not understand bowfishing, i dont like it, but on the other side of the coin most guys dont like fly fishing. I think its the mentality of most, NOT ALL, bowfisherman."Lets kill as many things as we can and throw them in a huge bucket" I cant stand it, i think it makes about as much sense as a turd flavored popsicle. OK, shoot some carp, go for it. But why do they feel the need to skewer gar, bowfin, buffalo, and suckers? They are native, they cause no harm to your precious centrarchids, and they will never over populate a major waterway. Ok im done, I meant no offense to anyone in particular, so please do not take something i said and turn it into something extreme. This post id probably riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, but i have been drinking and like the honey badger, i just dont give a schnidt.


Ah! Someone swerves close to the truth. While I'll freely admit that carp may muck up the water a little, they are certainly not responsible for the wholesale degradation of water quality that caused them to be introduced here in the first place. No, we, the people, did that. Back when this country was being settled, and there wasn't even a glimmer of any sort of environmental consciousness, every stream that could support a grist mill was dammed, bank cover stripped, runoff and siltation were rampant and the waters warmed. Thus, the gamefish species went bye bye! So, carp were imported because they're hardy enough to survive. Then, it seemed people wanted to blame the carp for the poor water quality! 

I'm not a fly fisherman per se, but I do it every now and then. As I understand it, trying to catch shallow carp that are either grubbing for crustaceans or sipping flies from the surface is some of the most challenging fishing you can try. They are spooky as all get out, the poor man's bonefish. They'll give you a great fight if you can hook one. Also, carp caught from cool, clear water are fine to eat. I used to be mystified by the talk of the "mud vein" in carp. It's just the dark strip along the fillet that lies directly underneath the lateral line. Even a fine food fish like salmon has this and I always trim it away before eating. Improves the quality immensely.

As far as killing any fish for fun and then allowing it to go to waste, I'll quote one of my favorite authors, John Gierach, who says it much better than I can. Keep in mind that he's a fly fisherman.

"Around the West, fly-fishing types don't think much of the regional mountain whitefish. they crowd the trout, it's said, eating up the insects that would otherwise grow great big browns and rainbows. Well, maybe, although it's been my experience that the biggest whitefish live side by side in rivers that also hold the biggest trout.
On the Henry's Fork in Idaho I've seen fisherman who otherwise seemed reasonable strangle whitefish until they gurgled and then throw them back into the river to slowly die. "Squeeze-and-release fishing" they call it, with superior, know-it-all grins on their faces.
These, of course, are the same guys who will patiently resuscitate a trout before gently releasing it.
Three years ago on the Henry's Fork I spent a very pleasant evening catching eighteen- to twenty-inch-long whitefish on dry flies during a blizzard caddis hatch. It was pleasant, that is, except for the bodies of abused whitefish that kept drifting down from fishermen upstream and bumping into my legs.
Only two comments here: First, be consistent. If you're going to do things like that, then don't give me any of that crap about the "artistry of the sport" and "respect for the game and the environment", okay? If you want to be a brutal, wasteful clod, at least have the courage of your convictions.
And second, killing any game animal and then just letting it lie is illegal (look under "waste of meat" in the regulations) and some states offer rewards.


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## dstiner86

I feel killing for fun in a torturous way is wrong. but besides that looking for good places to fish in knox county.. any suggestions?


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## fontinalis

buckeyebowman said:


> Ah! Someone swerves close to the truth. While I'll freely admit that carp may muck up the water a little, they are certainly not responsible for the wholesale degradation of water quality that caused them to be introduced here in the first place. No, we, the people, did that. Back when this country was being settled, and there wasn't even a glimmer of any sort of environmental consciousness, every stream that could support a grist mill was dammed, bank cover stripped, runoff and siltation were rampant and the waters warmed. Thus, the gamefish species went bye bye! So, carp were imported because they're hardy enough to survive. Then, it seemed people wanted to blame the carp for the poor water quality!
> 
> I'm not a fly fisherman per se, but I do it every now and then. As I understand it, trying to catch shallow carp that are either grubbing for crustaceans or sipping flies from the surface is some of the most challenging fishing you can try. They are spooky as all get out, the poor man's bonefish. They'll give you a great fight if you can hook one. Also, carp caught from cool, clear water are fine to eat. I used to be mystified by the talk of the "mud vein" in carp. It's just the dark strip along the fillet that lies directly underneath the lateral line. Even a fine food fish like salmon has this and I always trim it away before eating. Improves the quality immensely.
> 
> As far as killing any fish for fun and then allowing it to go to waste, I'll quote one of my favorite authors, John Gierach, who says it much better than I can. Keep in mind that he's a fly fisherman.
> 
> "Around the West, fly-fishing types don't think much of the regional mountain whitefish. they crowd the trout, it's said, eating up the insects that would otherwise grow great big browns and rainbows. Well, maybe, although it's been my experience that the biggest whitefish live side by side in rivers that also hold the biggest trout.
> On the Henry's Fork in Idaho I've seen fisherman who otherwise seemed reasonable strangle whitefish until they gurgled and then throw them back into the river to slowly die. "Squeeze-and-release fishing" they call it, with superior, know-it-all grins on their faces.
> These, of course, are the same guys who will patiently resuscitate a trout before gently releasing it.
> Three years ago on the Henry's Fork I spent a very pleasant evening catching eighteen- to twenty-inch-long whitefish on dry flies during a blizzard caddis hatch. It was pleasant, that is, except for the bodies of abused whitefish that kept drifting down from fishermen upstream and bumping into my legs.
> Only two comments here: First, be consistent. If you're going to do things like that, then don't give me any of that crap about the "artistry of the sport" and "respect for the game and the environment", okay? If you want to be a brutal, wasteful clod, at least have the courage of your convictions.
> And second, killing any game animal and then just letting it lie is illegal (look under "waste of meat" in the regulations) and some states offer rewards.




Did we just become best friends?


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## pendog66

does using carp for bait count as killing them for fun?


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## Mushijobah

Yes, and quite legitimate lol

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## t.stuller

I cant believe this is even an argument. I bowfish carp for sport, and i leave them for the raccoons. Every now and then I have someone ask for them and I give them to them, but 90% of the time I leave them on the bank. They're obviously not going to waste, because something always seems to eat them.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

dstiner86 said:


> I feel killing for fun in a torturous way is wrong. but besides that looking for good places to fish in knox county.. any suggestions?


might want to take your question to the right forum. This threads become a warzone. No one will answer your question.


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## Gills63

Invasive species need to go. I don't care how long they have been here, nature knows best. And to the one comment, I actually have complained to the ODNR about the rainbow trout, why spend money on releasing non-native fish. I'm a purist, all cormorants, grackles, and lampreys need to take a hike. I agree that killing for pure amusement is wrong, but what about killing for a purpose? Specifically a nonselfish one? 

On the other hand, its purely foolish to leave carcasses on public land. Nothing is less enjoyable then standing next to a rotting fish or tripping on one when walking in the dark. I dealt with that recently, when some special people decided to leave their filleted crappie on a public ramp. 

And FYI, a dead fish in open water becomes like driftwood, even if you didn't shoot it at the bank that's where its going to end up. 





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## BigTripp

t.stuller said:


> I cant believe this is even an argument. I bowfish carp for sport, and i leave them for the raccoons. Every now and then I have someone ask for them and I give them to them, but 90% of the time I leave them on the bank. They're obviously not going to waste, because something always seems to eat them.


There's a nice spot at Tappan for bass that I couldn't stand to fish last week because some idiot left a pile of a dozen rotting carp sitting there for a few days in the 90 degree sun. Nothing ate them, and they didn't wash away. They just sat there rotting, stinking up the place bad enough to give you a gag reflex, and ruined my friends and I day as we had to go find a different spot and had no luck.

Bowfishing is well within the regulations. Even though I don't agree with the notion of killing carp to help the body of water, you're within your legal right to take them. If you're going to shoot them then don't leave them sitting right there on the bank. Throw them in a bucket and use them for fertilizer, give them to someone to eat, feed your dog, take them out a ways in the woods, whatever... but be a little bit responsible and courteous to your fellow fishermen and do NOT leave a pile of dead fish sitting there on the bank to rot and stink up a few hundred yards of shoreline.


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## Andrew S

Gills63 said:


> Invasive species need to go. I don't care how long they have been here, nature knows best. And to the one comment, I actually have complained to the ODNR about the rainbow trout, why spend money on releasing non-native fish. I'm a purist, all cormorants, grackles, and lampreys need to take a hike.


Since when are cormorants and grackles invasive? Both are native. They may become problems locally, but they're not "invasive" any more than white-tailed deer are.


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## Andrew S

t.stuller said:


> I cant believe this is even an argument. I bowfish carp for sport, and i leave them for the raccoons. Every now and then I have someone ask for them and I give them to them, but 90% of the time I leave them on the bank. They're obviously not going to waste, because something always seems to eat them.


If shooting something and leaving it is a sufficient definition of "sport", then we ought to be able to do the same with deer, ducks and other game animals.

Clearly, this issue is a little more complex. I'm not surprised that you can't believe this is an argument.


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## Gills63

I stand corrected. Both are indeed native. Back to ornithology school for me.

And agreed, killing for the sake of killing hardly seems like a sport. It would sound strange to go around saying I kill animals and leave them lay for the fun of it. 

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## MassillonBuckeye

I really have to stop visiting these threads.. I can only hope these threads open some eyes. Stop leaving rotting fish carcasses around bodies of water where others fish. Its senseless to kill them in the first place, but then to turn around and ruin a spot on the bank for possibly weeks is.. Inconsiderate to say the least. The racoons are most likely already fat and happy, and you aren't making a dent in the carp population I can almost guarantee. People have had the same flawed ideology for many years now and we can see how many carp are left..


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## TheCream

[email protected] said:


> _
> "Impact of Introduction: The common carp is regarded as a pest fish because of its widespread abundance and because of its tendency to destroy vegetation and increase water turbidity by dislodging plants and rooting around in the substrate, causing a deterioration of habitat for species requiring vegetation and clean water (Cole 1905; Cahoon 1953; Bellrichard 1996; Laird and Page 1996)"_
> 
> 91 years of research by established and excepted scientists must be wrong.
> 
> *This wouldn't be nearly as interesting if everybody cited actual research though.*
> 
> How do you guys feel about torturing poor shiners and fatheads by using them for bait? How about yellow bullheads?
> 
> Why are asian carp so bad? From what I've read lately, they will not have as big an impact as common carp in our climate.


I wonder how this sort of argument would go over if it was regarding...say...a more beloved species of destructive animal? Like, maybe the whitetail deer? If I must quote articles and sites, feel free to pull some from here: http://www.deerdamage.org/page/problems-and-issues

That took me all of 1.3 seconds to find. They cause huge financial damages due to crop damage, property damage, car accidents, environmental damages when overpopulated, etc... And speaking of car accidents, how about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer-vehicle_collisions

In the year 2000, deer caused 247,000 car accidents, resulting in $1.1 billion (with a B) in damages and 200 human deaths. 

So maybe if you want to stop a real threat, both to the environment and to your life and property, you should turn your efforts from the carp to the deer. Kill them, tag them in (because that way it's legal), and dump them in the weeds to feed the coyotes, raccoons, and buzzards.

Do your part to keep America safe.


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## [email protected]

fontinalis said:


> Wow, you know how to copy and paste old out of date info i am impressed. this is exactly the type of comment i was expecting to get in reply, if i really wanted to i could bury the thread with citations that nobody wants to read that would show facts and information for my side of the argument.
> 
> And as far as the shiners, i don't use bait, so i don't really know what to tell you there.
> 
> Why are asian carp so bad? Are you serious? I honestly cannot answer that question without making you very angry at me.
> Ok, back to feasting on cobra, then a nap.


Here's some more reading material but I doubt you'll bother or is this why you couldn't answer my question? 
From" http://www.umesc.usgs.gov/invasive_species/asian_carp.html
_All four of the Asian carps that are established in the United States spread quickly after introduction, became very abundant, and hurt native fishes either by damaging habitats or by consuming vast amounts of food. Common and grass carps destroy habitat and reduce water quality for native fishes by uprooting or consuming aquatic vegetation. 

Bighead and silver carps are large filter-feeders that compete with larval fishes, paddlefish, bigmouth buffalo, and freshwater mollusks (clams). In addition, boaters have been injured by silver carp because they commonly jump out of the water and into or over boats in response to outboard motors. Black carp, which consume almost exclusively mussels and snails, may further threaten our already imperiled native freshwater mussels should they become established._




Research that has been around for 16 years is hardly outdated and has been around long enough to be challenged or rescinded though it hasn't.


Common carp are equally as destructive as asian carp outside of the boating hazzard asian carp present. Common carp are actually better equipped for survival in our waters than asian carp. To condemn one while promoting the other is illogical. Copying and pasting was for the convience rather than following a link and that could eventually die rendering the post incomprehensible. I prefer to back up my conclusions with facts rather than fiction to promote a personal aggenda. I have seen first hand the damage common carp can do to small impoundments in just a few years after introduction and the resulting negative effects they have on habitat and therefore native species.

While I don't like the idea or sight or smell of piles of rotting carcasses left by people it is the lesser evil in my opinion and I never encountered a carp pile greater than many shad kills I've seen mother nature dish out. The reality is that those who practice kill and dump are having little to no effect on the populations. It does make it unpleasant for those who are trying to fish nearby so I would prefer that they take their kills and dispose of them properly.

LOL Cream: If carp made decent jerky they wouldn't be left lying on the bank.


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## Andrew S

[email protected] said:


> Common carp are equally as destructive as asian carp outside of the boating hazzard asian carp present. Common carp are actually better equipped for survival in our waters than asian carp. To condemn one while promoting the other is illogical.


I think you're correct, in a sense. But I think we have several different arguments going on in this thread, and in some cases are talking past each other. In some places, the common carp is so thoroughly established that it simply cannot be eradicated, whereas there might be a chance to stop the asian carp species from getting into certain bodies of water. Admitting this fact doesn't mean one is claiming common carp are harmless....it's just acknowledging that we have limited funds and time to deal with various invasives so we must allocate resources effectively.

As much as I like fishing for carp, if somebody came along with a truly effective way to eradicate them from a body of water (or all over), I'd probably support it since, as a biologist, I'm always on the side of native, healthy systems when that is possible.

I don't generally buy the arguments of bow fishers who argue that they're motivated solely or even primarily by a desire to improve the health of a lake or river. I just don't think it's an effective measure of eradication, or even of control. Initiate a major netting or poisoning effort if that's the goal.

So in this thread we've got arguments going on about the relative damage carp do or do not do, and simultaneously we've got the arguments about whether shooting animals for no other purpose than shooting animals is ethical. We've also got arguments going on about what should properly be done about those animals once they've been shot. All of these might be overlapping arguments in some cases, but they're not one and the same and folks need to try to keep this straight.


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## pendog66

Asian Carp have a very high commercial value overseas. Mark my words, when they take control of the Great Lakes you will see PR people trying to change the mindset about Carp. Until then kill them all. Common Carp dont bother me, they can live in a mud puddle if they have to. College buddies refer them as "Freshwater Bonefish"


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## [email protected]

pendog66 said:


> Asian Carp have a very high commercial value overseas. Mark my words, when they take control of the Great Lakes you will see PR people trying to change the mindset about Carp. Until then kill them all. Common Carp dont bother me, they can live in a mud puddle if they have to. College buddies refer them as "Freshwater Bonefish"


Like nutria in Louisiana or rats in China...the other red meat. That can't be dirtier than the tilapia served at almost every restaurant now.

Carp are admittedly pretty fun on an ultralight rigged weightless with a mulberry though. They're also the only fish where I'd rather eat the bait than the quarry.


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## Flathead76

There are not enough bowfisherman to hardly make a dent in the carp population. Most every animal needs its population to be put into check. This is why we have managed hunting and fishing seasons. You never hear people who complain about carp sienes on lake erie.


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## steelhead1

The bluegill that ate Japan 


Or at least ate Japan's fish. The problem is so bad that the Emperor is apologizing for bringing bluegill into Japan in the 1960s. 

Chicago mayor Richard Daley gave bluegill, the state fish of Illinois, as a gift to the current Emperor in 1960. Hoping to create a new delectable food source, Japanese fish biologists established the bluegill in lakes. Now, bluegill are eating and depleting some native species, and they've become an official nuisance. "Its cultivation started as there were great expectations of raising them for food in those days. My heart aches to see it has turned out like this," Emperor Akihito said. 

To control the bluegill, there is a "catch and eat" policy for bluegill. Who knew that these nice little fish could be such a scourge. How long until we have a Bluegillzilla horror movie?


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## Bluegill_Guru

Andrew S said:


> What bothers me, personally, about the practice of shooting large numbers of carp just to toss them in the garden is that it seems, to me, that the real goal here is simply to shoot large numbers of animals. The disposal in the garden is just what happens afterwards, but it's hardly the goal. This seems unlike virtually all other forms of hunting except "varmint" hunting where, for example, somebody shoots large numbers of prairie dogs but doesn't utilize them for anything.


This is how I feel also, except I think that at least utilizing the Carp as fertilizer in a garden is using the animal for the intended "end use" of all organisms --- sustenance. I'm not (not saying you are either) and animal rights fanatic, but I just think that we should use our resources for something beneficial and not take them for granted. 

Someone mentioned in this thread "what about using shiners, bullheads, etc; for bait". All fish are food for something, so using them for bait is using them in the proper context of the natural order of things, since the end result is the "bait" is consumed by something, most of the time being another fish.

I also agree that all species populations need to be "kept in check", but unless there is some abnormal circumstances that enter and affect the ecosystem in a negative way, nature has its system of "checks and balances" in place that regulate each species. I have yet to see a place where Carp have taken over the entire aquatic ecosystem. I am not saying it can't or hasn't happened, but only that I have never seen it.

I love this thread. My only regret is that I didn't start it.  :T



steelhead1 said:


> The bluegill that ate Japan


I forgot all about that story, thanks for reminding me. I should go over to China and become a professional Bluegill hitman. haha


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## ARReflections

I liked the piece by buckeyebowman. It seems odd to me that some "carp" about the carp but do not seem to apply the same logic to large mouth bass. For the most part, people do not eat the large mouth bass yet this invasive species has been introduced into waters around the US and the world. It has been popularized as a gamefish (whatever that means) and so you don't see people shooting them with bows or leaving them on the banks to die a slow death. The carp imho is a far better "game fish" for those who have caught one and have seen their line peel off a fly reel or the screech of the drag as they zip off with your lure/fly. Because they happen to be a bottom feeder somehow relegates them to a lower status of fish. If the logic used for eliminating the carp is true then please apply it to the large mouth bass too. Personally, I think the carp is far more difficult to catch then a large mouth bass with the a rod and reel. Resorting to a bow and arrow or other easy kill method may just simply be a reflection of skill level and the invasive/poor tasting/muddying up waters excuses are just that.


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## TheCream

ARReflections said:


> I liked the piece by buckeyebowman. *It seems odd to me that some "carp" about the carp but do not seem to apply the same logic to large mouth bass.* For the most part, people do not eat the large mouth bass yet this invasive species has been introduced into waters around the US and the world. It has been popularized as a gamefish (whatever that means) and so you don't see people shooting them with bows or leaving them on the banks to die a slow death. The carp imho is a far better "game fish" for those who have caught one and have seen their line peel off a fly reel or the screech of the drag as they zip off with your lure/fly. Because they happen to be a bottom feeder somehow relegates them to a lower status of fish. If the logic used for eliminating the carp is true then please apply it to the large mouth bass too. Personally, I think the carp is far more difficult to catch then a large mouth bass with the a rod and reel. Resorting to a bow and arrow or other easy kill method may just simply be a reflection of skill level and the invasive/poor tasting/muddying up waters excuses are just that.


That is where I have an issue with killing them in order to "keep numbers in check." If you don't use the same logic across all species that all need to be kept in check, then to me, it's very faulty logic. Lakes and ponds where bass are overpopulated need to have bass removed to help promote the best environment for them to grow and provide the best fishing opportunities. Too many bass isn't a good thing for a pond or lake. The result tends to be very stunted growth. If we approach that the same way people approach what they think is a problem with too many carp, I'd say some feathers would get ruffled. How about I go catch my limit of bass and then sling them up on the bank to rot to "thin the herd" and improve the quality of the fishery? 

If you see a problem with that, how do you *not* see a problem doing the same thing to carp? Because in both cases, you'd be doing something to improve the fishing, right?


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## yakfish

Back to the original post. How is it Immorral to kill a carp for the fun of it? How is it any different than killing a nightcrawler to catch a fish that you are catch for the fun of it and then releasing? How is it any more immoral than killing a creek chub, shad, minnow or any other "baitfish" for the fun it and releasing the fish you caught with said bait? I love catching carp they fight just as hard as any other fish in fresh water. I even target them for fun. But I couldn't care less if people kill them for the fun of it. I don't care if they shoot them with a .22 or a bow. if its legal go for it. I don't see the carp population going anywhere anytime soon. If killing a carp or any other fish for that matter for the fun of it is immoral then it is just as immoral to kill the bait you use to catch them.


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## Gills63

I would say the difference is that when I hook a minnow, my sole goal in doing so is not the death of the minnow. The minnow's death is merely a product of my actions. I don't normally get excited when I go crappie fishing and say "Yes! I'm going to go kill some minnows today!" Killing the minnows is merely collateral damage much like killing bugs or other animals while driving my car.

Would people have a problem if I went hunting for puppies? The fact that those puppies have an owner is irrelevant to the morality of killing them.

Strange that people think because something is legal that it must be okay.... 

I don't mean this to turn into a religious comment, but morality is hard to seperate from faith. If you believe a higher power expended the energy to create a creature destroying it for amusement is much akin to me walking down the beach kicking over kids sandcastles. 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## tadluvadd

Im pretty shure,[no im shure cause i read it]the original post was killing for the fun of it,AND TORTURE.after you all catch mice,do you slice em up and get your jollys?or cut a minnows eyes out before you bait it on a hook and roll on the floor laughing?or how many of the bow fisherman would arrow a carp,get the old knife out and start carving them up for fun?THATS WHAT THE ORIGINAL POST ASKED.not shure how it spawned into a hundred different things.but ya,it is messed up.and i dont care if your talking about mice,sharks worms,or carp.if you catch somthing and torture it for enjoyment,it is demented man.Ive always hunted and fished all my life,and was always taught there is abig difference between hunting/harvesting and killing.my 2 cents.


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## jonnythfisherteen2

Gills63 said:


> I would say the difference is that when I hook a minnow, my sole goal in doing so is not the death of the minnow. The minnow's death is merely a product of my actions. I don't normally get excited when I go crappie fishing and say "Yes! I'm going to go kill some minnows today!" Killing the minnows is merely collateral damage much like killing bugs or other animals while driving my car.
> 
> Would people have a problem if I went hunting for puppies? The fact that those puppies have an owner is irrelevant to the morality of killing them.
> 
> Strange that people think because something is legal that it must be okay....
> 
> I don't mean this to turn into a religious comment, but morality is hard to seperate from faith. If you believe a higher power expended the energy to create a creature destroying it for amusement is much akin to me walking down the beach kicking over kids sandcastles.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


DANGER: religious war imminent.


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## HighFlyin'Paddler

Before I talk about anything specific in this thread I'd like to say my piece about the carp.

The carp is thought of and referred to by many as a trash fish. Not worth fishing for and a waste of time, energy, and resources when caught. In my opinion nothing could be further from the truth. Carp are large and powerful and frankly fun to catch. (If you like fighting a fish.) When I was a kid, we'd catch big carp all summer long and reeling in a 30 inch fish is a big deal to a twelve year old. Fishing for carp can be a blast. With medium strength line and a loaf of bread you can spend a few hours reeling in big fish and having a great time. Not enough skill involved? Go out to a shallow spot where they're feeding on the surface and try a fly rod with a light leader. When you land one I promise you'll be smiling.

Now, all of us here are fishermen of one sort or another and a lot of us would probably call ourselves sportsmen. We can likely all agree that there isn't much sport in killing just to kill. If that's your thing though, I don't think you're on the road to becoming a serial killer or some sort of demented person. What I do think though is that it is a big waste of a fish. 
There will forever be bow fishermen. On a hot summer day, wading through a cool stream does sound pretty good and who wouldn't want to prove and improve their marksmanship shooting something under water. There is nothing wrong with bowfishing, but wasting a fish, which bow fisherman have developed a stereotype for, is wrong.
Like it's been said above, there are many ways to get use out of a bowed or speared carp. Fertilizer, food, bait, ect... I know we're not talking about Asian carp, but with the abundance of those fish and the need to drastically reduce their numbers people in those affected areas have turned to the kitchen. After some trial and error they've come up with a variety of dishes using the Asian carp. It's actually being served in some higher end restaurants. Imagine that, a trash fish fetching good money on the dinner table. Its an age old rule, don't knock it 'till you try it. If you find yourself bored on a Saturday morning go catch a couple carp and get creative. The majority of us being male, we know one thing, with enough batter, a little spice, and maybe some cold brews before hand we can make anything edible.
Its true that there are an abundance of carp and that harvesting these creatures wisely can provide for ourselves and help balance numbers. However, my point is this; waste not. If we're true outdoors men and sportsmen then we won't waste our natural resources.


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## t.stuller

Flathead76 said:


> There are not enough bowfisherman to hardly make a dent in the carp population. Most every animal needs its population to be put into check. This is why we have managed hunting and fishing seasons. You never hear people who complain about carp sienes on lake erie.[/Q
> I totally agree!


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## jonnythfisherteen2

Carp is fine to eat. You just need to marinate it and cut away the darkest meat, and that "mud vein".
Just use something based with acid. 
I find that when it is properly prepared, it tastes like a whitefish. Just mild, and sweet. But with a huge amount of bones.


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## fredg53

HighFlyin'Paddler said:


> Before I talk about anything specific in this thread I'd like to say my piece about the carp.
> 
> The carp is thought of and referred to by many as a trash fish. Not worth fishing for and a waste of time, energy, and resources when caught. In my opinion nothing could be further from the truth. Carp are large and powerful and frankly fun to catch. (If you like fighting a fish.) When I was a kid, we'd catch big carp all summer long and reeling in a 30 inch fish is a big deal to a twelve year old. Fishing for carp can be a blast. With medium strength line and a loaf of bread you can spend a few hours reeling in big fish and having a great time. Not enough skill involved? Go out to a shallow spot where they're feeding on the surface and try a fly rod with a light leader. When you land one I promise you'll be smiling.
> 
> Now, all of us here are fishermen of one sort or another and a lot of us would probably call ourselves sportsmen. We can likely all agree that there isn't much sport in killing just to kill. If that's your thing though, I don't think you're on the road to becoming a serial killer or some sort of demented person. What I do think though is that it is a big waste of a fish.
> There will forever be bow fishermen. On a hot summer day, wading through a cool stream does sound pretty good and who wouldn't want to prove and improve their marksmanship shooting something under water. There is nothing wrong with bowfishing, but wasting a fish, which bow fisherman have developed a stereotype for, is wrong.
> Like it's been said above, there are many ways to get use out of a bowed or speared carp. Fertilizer, food, bait, ect... I know we're not talking about Asian carp, but with the abundance of those fish and the need to drastically reduce their numbers people in those affected areas have turned to the kitchen. After some trial and error they've come up with a variety of dishes using the Asian carp. It's actually being served in some higher end restaurants. Imagine that, a trash fish fetching good money on the dinner table. Its an age old rule, don't knock it 'till you try it. If you find yourself bored on a Saturday morning go catch a couple carp and get creative. The majority of us being male, we know one thing, with enough batter, a little spice, and maybe some cold brews before hand we can make anything edible.
> Its true that there are an abundance of carp and that harvesting these creatures wisely can provide for ourselves and help balance numbers. However, my point is this; waste not. If we're true outdoors men and sportsmen then we won't waste our natural resources.


Wow great post my thoughts right on 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## TheCream

Gills63 said:


> I would say the difference is that when I hook a minnow, my sole goal in doing so is not the death of the minnow. The minnow's death is merely a product of my actions. I don't normally get excited when I go crappie fishing and say "Yes! I'm going to go kill some minnows today!" Killing the minnows is merely collateral damage much like killing bugs or other animals while driving my car.
> 
> *Would people have a problem if I went hunting for puppies?* The fact that those puppies have an owner is irrelevant to the morality of killing them.
> 
> Strange that people think because something is legal that it must be okay....
> 
> I don't mean this to turn into a religious comment, but morality is hard to seperate from faith. If you believe a higher power expended the energy to create a creature destroying it for amusement is much akin to me walking down the beach kicking over kids sandcastles.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Exactly. You get the puppies, I'll get their kittens. We'd be killing them for fun, so it's OK.


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## [email protected]

The thrill of the kill is why a majority of hunters hunt. Bowfishing for carp is no worse than swatting a fly with a fly swatter.


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## TheCream

[email protected] said:


> The thrill of the kill is why a majority of hunters hunt. Bowfishing for carp is no worse than swatting a fly with a fly swatter.


True, the thrill of the kill does motivate a lot of hunters. But what do you think of hunters who would shoot a deer or bear then just leave them lay? Not do anything with their kill? I hunt, and I'd never consider shooting a deer just for the thrill then not do anything with it.


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## [email protected]

Personally I don't think people should eat mammals that eat meat... a quirk of mine. People wouldn't eat deer if they tasted bad or were unhealthy but populations would still need kept in check. There are many instances of animal populations being reduced for the greater good, without the bodies being utilized for food, cormorants and silver carp and groundhogs are good examples that you may be able to relate to. If a person had feral pigs or ground hogs destroying his or his neighbors property, I would not persecute him for not eating ones he killed. I've tossed plenty of bass from my pond in the compost heap, though I generally try to fillet them because I like to eat them. I've shot plenty of ground hogs digging around my building foundations then tossed them out into the field to rot without guilt.Tossing my underperforming bass in to the compost heap benefits the remaining fish in the pond so I feel no guilt in doing so as I have seen the benefits. Carp are essentially the water equivilent of feral pigs or ground hogs in my opinion. I'm sure there are those that may think my moral compass is skewed because I take some enjoyment and satisfaction in killing a ground hog.


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## TheCream

Ever been to Lake Snowden in SE Ohio? Gorgeous little lake, gin clear water and more aquatic weed growth than you can imagine once you hit summer time. The bass fishing has really improved, too. They even broadcast that fact on the website for the lake. 

http://www.lakesnowden.com/fishing

It's funny...the bass fishing has improved and the water quality is amazing out there...even with the presence of the "aquatic feral pigs." How does that happen? I thought they ruined everything?


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## Bluegill_Guru

Gills63 said:


> Strange that people think because something is legal that it must be okay....
> 
> I don't mean this to turn into a religious comment, but morality is hard to seperate from faith. If you believe a higher power expended the energy to create a creature destroying it for amusement is much akin to me walking down the beach kicking over kids sandcastles.


+100%

I totally agree.


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## ARReflections

[email protected] said:


> The thrill of the kill is why a majority of hunters hunt. Bowfishing for carp is no worse than swatting a fly with a fly swatter.


Not sure if the thrill of the kill is why a majority of hunters hunt is accurate but if the thrill of the kill is the reason for any hunter than there is some serious issues for sure. Now-a-days I am a catch and release type fisherman unless I intend on keeping a few fish for consumption. If I intend on catching a few fish for consumption then I will use live bait. If not then I use a fly rod and challenge myself in catching a fish on the fly and usually with a barbless hook to minimize damage to the fish. Am I a tree hugger? No. I simply find it unnecessary and pointless to kill something for the sake of killing or proving something to someone or myself (ego). I will take a picture of the prized catch and then release. The fish I keep I scale and then usually fillet and even then I will keep the rest for soup stock or toss to the cats roaming in the woods. Nothing goes to waste. 

Those who hunt for the sake of hunting without utilizing all of the animal, I simply do not understand. Unlike fishing where you can release if unharmed, hunting is a terminal end game and if not terminal then that is even more cruel. Some may claim the joy is in the hunt but what skill is there in using a piece of equipment from a distance which the target has no defense? If that is the case then get a popcan and set it up xyz yards away situated in a challenging position and shoot away. If they are truly after the thrill of the hunt then I say arm yourself with a knife and then go hunting. That would seem more fair with knife versus claw and tooth. Maybe that is why people are a little more skittish about war. In war it is legal to kill people right? Hmmm.. carp, bass, deer, people...


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## Stripers4Life

ARReflections said:


> Not sure if the thrill of the kill is why a majority of hunters hunt is accurate but if the thrill of the kill is the reason for any hunter than there is some serious issues for sure. Now-a-days I am a catch and release type fisherman unless I intend on keeping a few fish for consumption. If I intend on catching a few fish for consumption then I will use live bait. If not then I use a fly rod and challenge myself in catching a fish on the fly and usually with a barbless hook to minimize damage to the fish. Am I a tree hugger? No. I simply find it unnecessary and pointless to kill something for the sake of killing or proving something to someone or myself (ego). I will take a picture of the prized catch and then release. The fish I keep I scale and then usually fillet and even then I will keep the rest for soup stock or toss to the cats roaming in the woods. Nothing goes to waste.
> 
> Those who hunt for the sake of hunting without utilizing all of the animal, I simply do not understand. Unlike fishing where you can release if unharmed, hunting is a terminal end game and if not terminal then that is even more cruel. * Some may claim the joy is in the hunt but what skill is there in using a piece of equipment from a distance which the target has no defense?* If that is the case then get a popcan and set it up xyz yards away situated in a challenging position and shoot away. If they are truly after the thrill of the hunt then I say arm yourself with a knife and then go hunting. That would seem more fair with knife versus claw and tooth. Maybe that is why people are a little more skittish about war. In war it is legal to kill people right? Hmmm.. carp, bass, deer, people...


You are way off base. I am an avid hunter and "the thrill of the hunt" is the reason I keep going back. Hunting trophy animals is one of the most challenging activities one could do. Besides we are the apex predators and it's our responsibility to keep them in check. As far as the carp....who cares? It is legal, and there numbers are obviously not suffering. For a bunch of sportsmen you guys are the biggest bunch of whiny little girls I've ever seen. Is there a PETA forum on here?


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## [email protected]

TheCream said:


> Ever been to Lake Snowden in SE Ohio? Gorgeous little lake, gin clear water and more aquatic weed growth than you can imagine once you hit summer time. The bass fishing has really improved, too. They even broadcast that fact on the website for the lake.
> 
> http://www.lakesnowden.com/fishing
> 
> It's funny...the bass fishing has improved and the water quality is amazing out there...even with the presence of the "aquatic feral pigs." How does that happen? I thought they ruined everything?



I've never been to Lake Snowden. I planned to one time on a trip to fish Lake Katherine but ended up at Tycoon and then lost my transmission with my pulling my two boats. I've caught some nice sized carp in the Obey River below the Dale Hollow dam though. It's trout water, cold and gin clear. I cleaned a carp from there once. With the carp filleted, fatty meat along the lateral line removed, rolled in cornmeal and fried in bacon grease. It wasn't nearly as good as the trout...to say the least but it did put up a good fight in the current.

Would the water quality be better without carp? Is your conclusion that the bass fishing is improved because of the presence carp? Do you feel I am an unethical person and not a good sportsman because of my statements about throwing my bass in the compost heap and killing groundhogs?

I don't believe carp ruin everything but all research and experience leads me to believe that most bodies of water here would likely be better without them, unless you're a carp fisherman. The negative effects of carp vary depending on each lake's dynamics. 

There are well documented examples of lakes that had significant densities of carp along with native gamefish where it was theorized that the stripping of vegetation and muddying of the water was decreasing the overall production of food in the system, and the carp were taking up biomass and therefore inhibiting gamefish growth. These lakes were drained down, treated with piscicide and restocked with native forage and gamefish. Upon refilling, habitat improved as did gamefish Wr's and populations increased. In these cases, it was good for everything but the carp. I can dig up the white papers if you like.


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## ARReflections

Stripers4Life said:


> You are way off base. I am an avid hunter and "the thrill of the hunt" is the reason I keep going back. Hunting trophy animals is one of the most challenging activities one could do. Besides we are the apex predators and it's our responsibility to keep them in check. As far as the carp....who cares? It is legal, and there numbers are obviously not suffering. For a bunch of sportsmen you guys are the biggest bunch of whiny little girls I've ever seen. Is there a PETA forum on here?


Clearly you read my post carefully. I have nothing against hunting if the hunter utilizes the game. Killing the animal for the sake of killing if that is your definition of the thrill of the hunt is pointless since as you stated we humans are the apex predator going against a creature with nothing to defend against bullet or arrow. Thus my comment that either war or going against a bear or some other trophy animal with nothing more than a knife would seem to be a more even playing field. Then you may have something to actually brag about other than the size of your gun. For the record, I think PETA is equally wacked. Also please educate me on exactly what it is you enjoy about the thrill of the hunt.

The American Indian was IMHO the definition of the hunting sportsman. Respected the land, only took what they needed, gave thanks to the animal and the creator before killing the animal and utilized all of the animal. I somehow fail to see how this view is comparable to a bunch of whiny girls but then again, you don't see the Native American living the dignified life they did before being moved or eliminated.


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## TheCream

[email protected] said:


> I've never been to Lake Snowden. I planned to one time on a trip to fish Lake Katherine but ended up at Tycoon and then lost my transmission with my pulling my two boats. I've caught some nice sized carp in the Obey River below the Dale Hollow dam though. It's trout water, cold and gin clear. I cleaned a carp from there once. With the carp filleted, fatty meat along the lateral line removed, rolled in cornmeal and fried in bacon grease. It wasn't nearly as good as the trout...to say the least but it did put up a good fight in the current.
> 
> Would the water quality be better without carp? Is your conclusion that the bass fishing is improved because of the presence carp? Do you feel I am an unethical person and not a good sportsman because of my statements about throwing my bass in the compost heap and killing groundhogs?
> 
> I don't believe carp ruin everything but all research and experience leads me to believe that most bodies of water here would likely be better without them, unless you're a carp fisherman. The negative effects of carp vary depending on each lake's dynamics.
> 
> There are well documented examples of lakes that had significant densities of carp along with native gamefish where it was theorized that the stripping of vegetation and muddying of the water was decreasing the overall production of food in the system, and the carp were taking up biomass and therefore inhibiting gamefish growth. These lakes were drained down, treated with piscicide and restocked with native forage and gamefish. Upon refilling, habitat improved as did gamefish Wr's and populations increased. In these cases, it was good for everything but the carp. I can dig up the white papers if you like.


I don't think you're unethical, I think you are missing the difference between what you do to the fish in *your pond *and fish that are in a *public waterway*. The fish in your pond, do what you want to them. They are yours. For me, there is a HUGE difference between what you do to a private pond vs. a public body of water. 

As for what I said about Snowden, all I was doing was pointing out an example (and a good one) of carp having a presence and not causing all of these issues people keep harping on. The bass are thriving, the water quality is not an issue, water clarity is not an issue, other game fish are not suffering, etc... You can even look at Dow Lake, which does have what I call a mud flat on one end that the carp often stir up. That mud flat might even be in the neighborhood of a few acres in size. Those carp, they ruin the lake, right? Well how do you explain the other 165+ acres of water of the 171 total acres being some of best trophy bass fishing in SE Ohio? And supporting a tremendous population of sunfish, crappies, and catfish? With normally excellent water clarity (until a massive rain will dump muddy runoff into it)? I think this notion that carp destroy the bottom has to be examined in terms of what the bottom substrate is made up of _to begin with_. Grand Traverse Bay in Lake Michigan is known for huge carp and excellent carp fishing, yet they are found in crystal clear water over gravel and rock, side by side with trophy smallmouth bass. That gravel and rock doesn't turn to muck and mud from the carp feeding, does it?


----------



## Mushijobah

TheCream said:


> I don't think you're unethical, I think you are missing the difference between what you do to the fish in *your pond *and fish that are in a *public waterway*. The fish in your pond, do what you want to them. They are yours. For me, there is a HUGE difference between what you do to a private pond vs. a public body of water.
> 
> As for what I said about Snowden, all I was doing was pointing out an example (and a good one) of carp having a presence and not causing all of these issues people keep harping on. The bass are thriving, the water quality is not an issue, water clarity is not an issue, other game fish are not suffering, etc... You can even look at Dow Lake, which does have what I call a mud flat on one end that the carp often stir up. That mud flat might even be in the neighborhood of a few acres in size. Those carp, they ruin the lake, right? Well how do you explain the other 165+ acres of water of the 171 total acres being some of best trophy bass fishing in SE Ohio? And supporting a tremendous population of sunfish, crappies, and catfish? With normally excellent water clarity (until a massive rain will dump muddy runoff into it)? I think this notion that carp destroy the bottom has to be examined in terms of what the bottom substrate is made up of _to begin with_. Grand Traverse Bay in Lake Michigan is known for huge carp and excellent carp fishing, yet they are found in crystal clear water over gravel and rock, side by side with trophy smallmouth bass. That gravel and rock doesn't turn to muck and mud from the carp feeding, does it?


They aren't a problem in oligotrophic or mesotrophic lakes. Lakes in Ohio are at risk. Especially highly eutrophic lakes like Buckeye, Grand Lake, Indian, other shallow lakes.


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## Carpn

I bowfish .....a lot.....If you have never tried it then you wouldn't understand . Common carp are here to stay my friends. I don't bowfish claiming it as a crusade to ride the waters of carp for the betterment of the lake. I bowfish because I enjoy it and carp are what we are allowed to shoot. In the majority of water in Ohio carp make up a large percentage of the overall biomass of a lake. They do contribute to water quality issues and that has been proven countless time by complete removal of carp from small bodies of water, the result was lower turbidity and more weed growth. This was demonstrated recently at resthaven. Another case in point. Pull up a Google earth image of the lake Erie shoreline . Compare the water quality of the marsh areas which are open to lake Erie therefor allowing large numbers of carp free access to those which are levied off and don't. I think you'll be suprised.
Bowfisherman can be there own worst enemy. Leaving stinking pile of dead fish is often done by kids or people who aren't very avid to the sport and it makes every Bowfisher look bad. Its similar to the post gun season deer carcasses that show up in ditches or the piles of trash and worm containers at public fishing access . Only a few do it but those incidents make the majority look bad. 
I would love to shoot some walleye,crappie,bluegill,or catfish so I could clean and eat my catch but Ohio law only allows us to target rough fish. For this reason I take annual trips to southern states that allow bowfishing for more edible fish such as redfish flounder saltwater sheephead gator gar and catfish. These trips are the highlight of my summer and I look forward to them.
If anyone questions how many carp are in Ohio's waters join me for a night. On a slow night you see over 100, on a good night you see thousands . It is pretty neat seeing that many fish, but it also confirms carp are here to stay.


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## TheCream

Carpn said:


> I bowfish .....a lot.....If you have never tried it then you wouldn't understand . Common carp are here to stay my friends. I don't bowfish claiming it as a crusade to ride the waters of carp for the betterment of the lake. I bowfish because I enjoy it and carp are what we are allowed to shoot. In the majority of water in Ohio carp make up a large percentage of the overall biomass of a lake. They do contribute to water quality issues and that has been proven countless time by complete removal of carp from small bodies of water, the result was lower turbidity and more weed growth. This was demonstrated recently at resthaven. Another case in point. Pull up a Google earth image of the lake Erie shoreline . Compare the water quality of the marsh areas which are open to lake Erie therefor allowing large numbers of carp free access to those which are levied off and don't. I think you'll be suprised.
> Bowfisherman can be there own worst enemy. Leaving stinking pile of dead fish is often done by kids or people who aren't very avid to the sport and it makes every Bowfisher look bad. Its similar to the post gun season deer carcasses that show up in ditches or the piles of trash and worm containers at public fishing access . Only a few do it but those incidents make the majority look bad.
> I would love to shoot some walleye,crappie,bluegill,or catfish so I could clean and eat my catch but Ohio law only allows us to target rough fish. For this reason I take annual trips to southern states that allow bowfishing for more edible fish such as redfish flounder saltwater sheephead gator gar and catfish. These trips are the highlight of my summer and I look forward to them.
> If anyone questions how many carp are in Ohio's waters join me for a night. On a slow night you see over 100, on a good night you see thousands . It is pretty neat seeing that many fish, but it also confirms carp are here to stay.


Very well said, I can respect that.


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## yakfish

Gills63 said:


> I would say the difference is that when I hook a minnow, my sole goal in doing so is not the death of the minnow. The minnow's death is merely a product of my actions. I don't normally get excited when I go crappie fishing and say "Yes! I'm going to go kill some minnows today!" Killing the minnows is merely collateral damage much like killing bugs or other animals while driving my car.
> 
> Would people have a problem if I went hunting for puppies? The fact that those puppies have an owner is irrelevant to the morality of killing them.
> 
> Strange that people think because something is legal that it must be okay....
> 
> I don't mean this to turn into a religious comment, but morality is hard to seperate from faith. If you believe a higher power expended the energy to create a creature destroying it for amusement is much akin to me walking down the beach kicking over kids sandcastles.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


So its OK to kill the minnows for bait as long as the minnow killing isn't the reason, but catching fish is? As long as it is collateral damage we are all ok with it, right? What if I used the puppies in your example for catfish bait? They are collateral damage so it OK and no one on here should have an issue with that as long as they are collateral damage and I am focus on catching and releasing the catfish for fun, and the fact that I am killing puppies in the proccess doesn't matter? I have kind of been curious to see what I could catch on a kitten or puppy fished on the bottom.

I think we have a different set of standards for different animals based pon how we feel about them. Some people like carp so much that killing them for fun is immoral but killing minnows or nightcralwers for bait is OK because who really like minnows or nightcrawlers anyway. Its the same for many people in regards to the type of meat they eat. Pigs, cows and chickens are ugly animals so nobody minds killing and eating them but don't eat a cute little bunny rabbit because in many people minds that would be immoral. Most of us on here fish, hunt and like meat and don't have this particular issue but the same mindset is showing itself with regards to the killing of our favorite fish species.


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## Vince™

TheCream said:


> Ever been to Lake Snowden in SE Ohio? Gorgeous little lake, gin clear water and more aquatic weed growth than you can imagine once you hit summer time. The bass fishing has really improved, too. They even broadcast that fact on the website for the lake.
> 
> http://www.lakesnowden.com/fishing
> 
> It's funny...the bass fishing has improved and the water quality is amazing out there...even with the presence of the "aquatic feral pigs." How does that happen? I thought they ruined everything?


I fish a similar place in my area. The water is very clear and when summer hits, it makes it nearly unfishable, but the place is loaded with carp.


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## [email protected]

TheCream said:


> I don't think you're unethical, I think you are missing the difference between what you do to the fish in *your pond *and fish that are in a *public waterway*. The fish in your pond, do what you want to them. They are yours. For me, there is a HUGE difference between what you do to a private pond vs. a public body of water.
> 
> As for what I said about Snowden, all I was doing was pointing out an example (and a good one) of carp having a presence and not causing all of these issues people keep harping on. The bass are thriving, the water quality is not an issue, water clarity is not an issue, other game fish are not suffering, etc... You can even look at Dow Lake, which does have what I call a mud flat on one end that the carp often stir up. That mud flat might even be in the neighborhood of a few acres in size. Those carp, they ruin the lake, right? Well how do you explain the other 165+ acres of water of the 171 total acres being some of best trophy bass fishing in SE Ohio? And supporting a tremendous population of sunfish, crappies, and catfish? With normally excellent water clarity (until a massive rain will dump muddy runoff into it)? I think this notion that carp destroy the bottom has to be examined in terms of what the bottom substrate is made up of _to begin with_. Grand Traverse Bay in Lake Michigan is known for huge carp and excellent carp fishing, yet they are found in crystal clear water over gravel and rock, side by side with trophy smallmouth bass. That gravel and rock doesn't turn to muck and mud from the carp feeding, does it?


I'm doing my best to answer your questions. You seem to be selective in answering mine.

What about the groundhogs? They're State owned game the same as fish. If I see one, it's dead and I'm not eating or skinning it and enjoy the sport of killing those evasive critters. I used my bass in the compost as an example of killing something for the greater good though it admittedly isn't all the relevant to the point of this discussion.

Would the water quality be better without carp? 

As far as Snowden:

Is your conclusion that the bass fishing has improved because of the presence carp? 

Is your conclusion that the native sportfish fishing would not be improved by the removal of carp?

Do you think maybe the slot limit on bass is contributing to Snowden's success?

Would you recommend adding carp to fisheries that do not have established populations for the greater good of these fisheries?

What kind of effect on the other fish would you expect from removing 50% of the carp from Lake Snowden or DOW?

I don't think I have exaggerated anything and there are often exceptions to every rule. I have been trying to get across that they are in all known cases not beneficial other than to those who target them and they in most cases decrease the productivity of bodies of water in our region. At the very least, their presence alone means they are taking up biomass and are therefore limiting resources for native, non-invasive fish. The carp are causing far less harm than man though.

I must only be fishing the bad lakes. I've never been to DOW Lake either. To theorize a possibility to support your case, I suppose that under the right circumstances, carp could disrupt spawing grounds of largemouth bass therefore reducing recruitment. Less mouths to feed means more for those that do survive to grow larger at the cost of numbers of fish. If this is the case for DOW lake, it would be exceptional. My guess is the slot limit it contributing more to the success of this fishery more than the carp though.

The reality is that carp are here to stay. They are fun to catch and those who shoot and kill them are within the law and their rights. It does not make them any lesser of a sportman for doing so just as carp fisherman are no less of sportman. I have only seen a handful bowfishers in action. I even saw a 30 foot kill shot from a boat that I was impressed by. He had several nice ones on a stringer hung from the front of his boat.

I once witnessed a pair of young men leaving their dead carp in a heap on the bank. They had buzzards circling before they were finished. Even though nature quickly took care of it, I do feel this was inconsiderate of others using the area and unlawful. At the very least, intentionally leaving them on the bank would be littering equivalent to an apple core or banana peel.


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## Fishaholic69

I know my friend will use a bow to hunt them.


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## rudyfish

i've been bow fishing for many years now and i use them for my plants they make the biggest plants in town so just dont throw them back in to die use them for your garden you always dont have to eat what you kill as long as it is used in one way or another ....


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## Gills63

yakfish said:


> So its OK to kill the minnows for bait as long as the minnow killing isn't the reason, but catching fish is? As long as it is collateral damage we are all ok with it, right? What if I used the puppies in your example for catfish bait? They are collateral damage so it OK and no one on here should have an issue with that as long as they are collateral damage and I am focus on catching and releasing the catfish for fun, and the fact that I am killing puppies in the proccess doesn't matter? I have kind of been curious to see what I could catch on a kitten or puppy fished on the bottom.
> 
> I think we have a different set of standards for different animals based pon how we feel about them. Some people like carp so much that killing them for fun is immoral but killing minnows or nightcralwers for bait is OK because who really like minnows or nightcrawlers anyway. Its the same for many people in regards to the type of meat they eat. Pigs, cows and chickens are ugly animals so nobody minds killing and eating them but don't eat a cute little bunny rabbit because in many people minds that would be immoral. Most of us on here fish, hunt and like meat and don't have this particular issue but the same mindset is showing itself with regards to the killing of our favorite fish species.


I agree with you that folks have different feelings towards different animals. Which was my point with the puppy hunting comment. The reason this debate is so multi~faceted, is due to different people placing a different value on other animals. Some people don't value anything outside of themselves, or their own families, or their own species.

The original question was regarding killing carp for fun. The fact that carp are viewed as a less desireable species is relevant to some, but not to others. The idea of "fun" is another factor.... does fun imply for no other purpose than amusement or self-empowerment? If so then the population control factor is not relevant to the original question.

I can think of several examples where different groups of humans have been deemed undesireable and "hunted for fun".... are humans an entirely different story then animals? Of course we are, at least to us. 




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## tadluvadd

[email protected] said:


> Personally I don't think people should eat mammals that eat meat... a quirk of mine. People wouldn't eat deer if they tasted bad or were unhealthy but populations would still need kept in check. There are many instances of animal populations being reduced for the greater good, without the bodies being utilized for food, cormorants and silver carp and groundhogs are good examples that you may be able to relate to. If a person had feral pigs or ground hogs destroying his or his neighbors property, I would not persecute him for not eating ones he killed. I've tossed plenty of bass from my pond in the compost heap, though I generally try to fillet them because I like to eat them. I've shot plenty of ground hogs digging around my building foundations then tossed them out into the field to rot without guilt.Tossing my underperforming bass in to the compost heap benefits the remaining fish in the pond so I feel no guilt in doing so as I have seen the benefits. Carp are essentially the water equivilent of feral pigs or ground hogs in my opinion. I'm sure there are those that may think my moral compass is skewed because I take some enjoyment and satisfaction in killing a ground hog.


its not like shooting ground hogs,nor even just about reducing populations.the original post refered to it as torturing fish before killing them.so to compare it to groundhogs, you would have to trap them,then slice them up for fun.why is so many not understanding that part? that is the part that is demented.and i disagree about just the thrill of the kill.true outdoorsman will tell you that some of the best and memorable days afield do not always entail harvesting game.its about being part of the outdoors,watching shades of gray come to life in the morning,the red fox hopping through the woods without making a noise.i could go on...if folks are mainly hunting for the thrill of the kill,they are missing out on alot in my opionion


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## Andrew S

tadluvadd said:


> and i disagree about just the thrill of the kill.true outdoorsman will tell you that some of the best and memorable days afield do not always entail harvesting game.its about being part of the outdoors,watching shades of gray come to life in the morning,the red fox hopping through the woods without making a noise.i could go on...if folks are mainly hunting for the thrill of the kill,they are missing out on alot in my opionion



Agreed. Thrill of the hunt and thrill of the kill are not the same thing. If you think they are, you're doing at least one of them incorrectly.


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## AEFISHING

If someone would only kill all the sheaphead.


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## DB4x4

I don't post much on here, (usually just sit in the shadows and read the comments) but I figured I would weigh in on this one.

Two years ago, I bought a new hunting bow and retired my 12 year old PSE Spyder. Since then, the ol' PSE had been sitting in the basement collecting dust. This year, I decided to put a bottle line/reel on it, bring it out of retirement, and try bowfishing.

For those who haven't tried it, I have to admit...it IS a lot of fun and borderline addictive, ha. But like many have mentioned on here, I faced the moral dilemma of what to do with the fish once shot. I don't really want to eat it, and once you get good at it, you realize you end up with entirely too much for just one (or two...or even three peoople).

Here was my solution:

1) I decided to shoot as many as possible while they were spawning. (Fun)
2) Hone my filleting skills (I usually practice CPR, so never I filleted many fish)
3) Donate the meat to a local rescue mission food bank (I called ahead of time and they verified they would accept fish as long as it was filleted)
4) Give the scraps to Pops for his garden

This way, I was able to have fun...learned a new skill, and none of the fish goes to waste. I have also on several occasions given carp to fisherman right there on the bank who were more than willing to take them home and eat them. (This is my preferred method of donation, that way I don't have to do all the work, ha!)

My point is...Yes, I know carp aren't the best eating fish out there...however, there is almost always someone willing to eat it. Why let it unnecessarily go to waste?

That said, anyone ever wonder what 50 lbs of donated frozen fish fillets looks like?


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## [email protected]

tadluvadd said:


> its not like shooting ground hogs,nor even just about reducing populations.the original post refered to it as torturing fish before killing them.so to compare it to groundhogs, you would have to trap them,then slice them up for fun.why is so many not understanding that part? that is the part that is demented.and i disagree about just the thrill of the kill.true outdoorsman will tell you that some of the best and memorable days afield do not always entail harvesting game.its about being part of the outdoors,watching shades of gray come to life in the morning,the red fox hopping through the woods without making a noise.i could go on...if folks are mainly hunting for the thrill of the kill,they are missing out on alot in my opionion


The groundhog example was in response to several "killing something and not eating it" comments, one of which by the thread starter. I don't know why so many aren't understanding this.

My thrill of the kill comment wasn't intendended to be taken so small in breadth.


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## fontinalis

DB4x4 said:


> I don't post much on here, (usually just sit in the shadows and read the comments) but I figured I would weigh in on this one.
> 
> Two years ago, I bought a new hunting bow and retired my 12 year old PSE Spyder. Since then, the ol' PSE had been sitting in the basement collecting dust. This year, I decided to put a bottle line/reel on it, bring it out of retirement, and try bowfishing.
> 
> For those who haven't tried it, I have to admit...it IS a lot of fun and borderline addictive, ha. But like many have mentioned on here, I faced the moral dilemma of what to do with the fish once shot. I don't really want to eat it, and once you get good at it, you realize you end up with entirely too much for just one (or two...or even three peoople).
> 
> Here was my solution:
> 
> 1) I decided to shoot as many as possible while they were spawning. (Fun)
> 2) Hone my filleting skills (I usually practice CPR, so never I filleted many fish)
> 3) Donate the meat to a local rescue mission food bank (I called ahead of time and they verified they would accept fish as long as it was filleted)
> 4) Give the scraps to Pops for his garden
> 
> This way, I was able to have fun...learned a new skill, and none of the fish goes to waste. I have also on several occasions given carp to fisherman right there on the bank who were more than willing to take them home and eat them. (This is my preferred method of donation, that way I don't have to do all the work, ha!)
> 
> My point is...Yes, I know carp aren't the best eating fish out there...however, there is almost always someone willing to eat it. Why let it unnecessarily go to waste?
> 
> That said, anyone ever wonder what 50 lbs of donated frozen fish fillets looks like?



You are the first Bowfisherman that i would honestly like to hang out with. If i were to ever get into the sport, i think i would do almost the exact same thing.


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## I_Shock_Em

DB4x4- I must say I'm incredibly impressed. Only a very small percentage of people out there would go through that kind of hassle to help someone else. Kudos to you man. Wish there were more people out there like you


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## Net

Don't be such a stranger next time, DB4x4. I can't remember the last time a thread like this took a heartwarming and positive turn. Kudos!


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## Carpn

Very good job DB4x4. Thats awesome what you did. I have given fish to raptor rescues and exotic animal rescues as food for the animals but never a food bank.I commend you for your effort.


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## viper1

It's the same to me when people hunt and kill coyote. I don't believe in wasting much of any thing. So I usually kill what I eat, for protection or in defense of my garden. But even then have a problem. We have Coyote here and to me it's another dog. These are my own personal problem. Others feel its fine to kill after all its legal. Caught plenty white bass, goby and sheep head today. All returned to the water with as little harm as possible. But since I wont eat any of that ones dying get brought home for fertilizer.


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## DB4x4

How come my photos were removed?


Anyway...

For those who have never had carp, try this:

Fillet the carp and remove the dark red meat down the middle of the fillet also known as the mud vein. Take the lighter pinkish meat and put it through a grinder. (This will help remove a lot of the small free floating bones in the meat)

Buy some Old Bay Crab Cake seasoning and use the recipe on the back of the package, substituting the ground carp for crab meat. Shape into patties and pan fry.

It might not be 5-star salmon, but it's not bad either...


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## tadluvadd

[email protected] said:


> The groundhog example was in response to several "killing something and not eating it" comments, one of which by the thread starter. I don't know why so many aren't understanding this.
> 
> My thrill of the kill comment wasn't intendended to be taken so small in breadth.


Read the very first post by the thread starter. its about torturing before killing somthing.THAT WAS WHY I USED THE EXAMPLE OF CUTTING GROUNDHOGS UP BEFORE SHOOTING THEM.big difference.i understand the point you were making, ive hunted ground hogs since a small boy,personaly we used to use the liver to catfish with,and consider ourselves lucky we wouldent run the tractor in its hole..the point im refering to was in the 1st post.and i dont care if somone bow fishes,uses a sling shot,or rocket launcher to kill fish.if one gets jollys from purposley inflicting pain and suffering,its not right man.if people wants to hunt only for the sport,to each thier own.but torture is NOT HUNTING.furthermore,I was setting the record strait that the thrill of the kill is not why MOST ethical hunters hunt.if the thrill comment was limted to groundhogs and vermon,i missed that assumption from your post.


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## carpslayer

let it die (the thread)


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## Net

DB4x4 said:


> How come my photos were removed?


Wow, I just noticed that too...My apologies! I had to remove a post in this thread around that same time and I must've accidently deleted them...Not sure how . If there was a way for me to put em back I would. Do you mind posting them again? 

**Update
OK, now I realize what happened. I had accidently done a thread delete instead of a post delete. Easy to recover from that bungle by doing an "undelete", but since your photos were imbedded within your post they went bye bye when the thread went bye bye. Again, my apologies.


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## [email protected]

tadluvadd said:


> Read the very first post by the thread starter. its about torturing before killing somthing.THAT WAS WHY I USED THE EXAMPLE OF CUTTING GROUNDHOGS UP BEFORE SHOOTING THEM.big difference.i understand the point you were making, ive hunted ground hogs since a small boy,personaly we used to use the liver to catfish with,and consider ourselves lucky we wouldent run the tractor in its hole..the point im refering to was in the 1st post.and i dont care if somone bow fishes,uses a sling shot,or rocket launcher to kill fish.if one gets jollys from purposley inflicting pain and suffering,its not right man.if people wants to hunt only for the sport,to each thier own.but torture is NOT HUNTING.furthermore,I was setting the record strait that the thrill of the kill is not why MOST ethical hunters hunt.if the thrill comment was limted to groundhogs and vermon,i missed that assumption from your post.


You quoted my post therefore I took your response as directed at me. You said "it's not like killing groundhogs" after I made the comparison. I have in no way promoted the torture of groundhogs or carp for that matter or claimed that torture is hunting. As I said previously, the comparison was about wasting meat...which you have admittedly done with groundhogs as well so we apparently agree to some extent.

Just so I'm clear I was talking about hunting in general with my thrill of the kill comment: I believe that most hunters would struggle to control their breath due to the thrilling excitement leading up to and the moments after having a deer like this in their sights and pulling the trigger or releasing their arrow.










I believe that ultimately, this is why most modern hunters hunt, to experience this. Spending time enjoying the outdoors, family, friends and food is an important part but these can be done without a gun. 

In your opinion why do "ethical" hunters hunt? If the main reason is to see frolicking foxes and the sky change color morning, why do they need a gun or bow?


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## catfishnut

Another season or two and that guy will be a shooter!!!


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## catfishnut

carpslayer said:


> let it die (the thread)


I agree!!!!......we've been tortured enough! LOL


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## BottomBouncer

wallydvr said:


> Sorry bud I guess I should start eating the mice I catch in my garage too. I dont waist my carp. I feed them to my raccoons. Carp are a non native species brought to ohio water s in 1879. They primarily eat fish eggs and minnows in the spring. It is a pest just like zebra mussels, gobies, snakehead ect. I do agree they are not as bad as some other non native species, but there population needs to be kept in check. So until more people start eating them, I'll keep shooting them.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


So, what do you consider hybrid bass and saugeye? They certainly are not native to anything.

Comparing mice to carp? If carp start invading your house then I would say you are well within your rights to remove them. 

They primarily eat fish eggs and minnows in the spring? What doesn't?

Like mussels, gobies, snakehead? Last I checked all of those, including the asian carp, were not intentionally introduced by officials for the purpose of giving people a food source. 

Why do you feel it is your job to keep their populations in check? Are all the predatory fish not doing a good enough job? With all the musky, saugeye and hybrids that have been stocked, along with various catfish, basses, etc...I'd say there are plenty of things to eat the small carp. Or are bass fry the only fry that other fish prefer to eat?


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## viper1

Now I agree never kill any thing or any body for no reason. But I do think passions can run over common sense. I'm afraid in all my years of seeing people kill carp in all sort of ways the population has increased dramatically. So I fail to see the worry. I do believe man has to keep all kinds of animals in check. Especially the non native species. They tend to have less natural enemies here. I have dedicated my life to the outdoors and fishing and hunting. And still groups like Pita are a blight on our society. Not because their base beliefs are wrong but just like this forum they let their passions control their common sense. 
So enjoy your carp fishing,eat them if you want. But don't try to change others beliefs to your own. You can't do it. And if there ever comes to a point where carp are facing troubles of extinction then you'll have a basis for this discussion.
I do know our club lake is getting over run with them. We are in discussions of what to do. They swarm in packs, Large packs and stir the mud up really bad. I'm sure their eating the game fish and eggs as the population of game fish is dropping while the carp are growing. I believe we will have to destroy them. Something I don't like but has to be done. 
Now if we do decide to do it. Would you like 300 or better large Carp to fillet? If so and that's the decision I can call you when to come get them. That would be the perfect solution. And you could make sure they dont get wasted.


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## catfishnut

Carp, crows, groundhogs, summer yotes.......most guys just shoot them and leave them lay.


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## viper1

catfishnut said:


> Carp, crows, groundhogs, summer yotes.......most guys just shoot them and leave them lay.


I dont think so. Not hunters any way. 59 years old been shooting since I could hold a gun and fishing earlier. Never left any thing lay. I may have killed some carp but used them as fertilizer, wouldnt shoot crows,couldnt eat em and never hurt me, Ground hogs I eat, And couldn't shoot any sort of dog that wasnt attacking. I too think some people kill for the thrill of killing. To me thats not a sportsman. Its a slob hunter. And your welcome to say how wrong i am. As i have heard it all before and usually from them., LOL I don't think God put any creature on this earth to kill for fun. Not a popular opinion but mine.


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## catfishnut

viper1 said:


> I dont think so. Not hunters any way. 59 years old been shooting since I could hold a gun and fishing earlier. Never left any thing lay. I may have killed some carp but used them as fertilizer, wouldnt shoot crows,couldnt eat em and never hurt me, Ground hogs I eat, And couldn't shoot any sort of dog that wasnt attacking. I too think some people kill for the thrill of killing. To me thats not a sportsman. Its a slob hunter. And your welcome to say how wrong i am. As i have heard it all before and usually from them., LOL I don't think God put any creature on this earth to kill for fun. Not a popular opinion but mine.


I said most....not all. And most hunters do in fact leave crows where they fall and the majority of hunters don't eat the groundhogs that they kill. And any yotes that are killed after their winter coats are gone, are useless and full of fleas/ticks and are left where the lay. What you believe is find by me, don't care one way or another. But just because a hunter doesn't hunt your way doesn't make him a "slob hunter"!!! As for myself I'm about as old as you and have hunted some sort of game since I was about 8yrs old. For the record, I don't hunt/fish for carp,crows or groundhogs since I don't plan on eating/using them, I do hunt predators such as coyotes, but only when the pelts are of value. I don't think crow hunters are "slob hunters" just because I don't agree with killing them for no good reason. As long as they are legal to hunt in season, to each their own.


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## viper1

catfishnut said:


> I said most....not all. And most hunters do in fact leave crows where they fall and the majority of hunters don't eat the groundhogs that they kill. And any yotes that are killed after their winter coats are gone, are useless and full of fleas/ticks and are left where the lay. What you believe is find by me, don't care one way or another. But just because a hunter doesn't hunt your way doesn't make him a "slob hunter"!!! As for myself I'm about as old as you and have hunted some sort of game since I was about 8yrs old. For the record, I don't hunt/fish for carp,crows or groundhogs since I don't plan on eating/using them, I do hunt predators such as coyotes, but only when the pelts are of value. I don't think crow hunters are "slob hunters" just because I don't agree with killing them for no good reason. As long as they are legal to hunt in season, to each their own.


And thats fine. Everybody is entitled to think their own way. But you missed the point. I meant If I have no use for the animal such as fur or food I don't hunt it. Never ate a crow but plenty do. The coyote thing is my own issue. Just dont like killing for fun.
I'll shoot a coyote for fur or protection. But not what it might do.
I'll shoot a ground hog if it's eating my garden or to eat.
I dont aim to eat a crow so I wont shoot them unless their eating my garden
I don't fish carp or eat them so I just throw them back. But I have tried eating them. And I have made them were you could. Just not something I like.
Like I said these are my thoughts only and feel free to have yours. But the slob hunter is what we taught according to the state of Ohio in hunters safety

Thats a hunter who either breaks the law by over possession or littering papers ,animals what ever. Ones who open gates and dont close or a numerous list of things. Leaving dead animals laying around and not removing them isnt a good thing either.
I also not agree if some thing is legal its right. There are a lot of things legal today I disagree with. But as I said in my first post. It's my opinion and not required of any one else. And if me thinking this way insults some one so be it,. I wont loose any sleep over it.


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## catfishnut

viper1 said:


> And thats fine. Everybody is entitled to think their own way. But you missed the point. I meant If I have no use for the animal such as fur or food I don't hunt it. Never ate a crow but plenty do. The coyote thing is my own issue. Just dont like killing for fun.
> I'll shoot a coyote for fur or protection. But not what it might do.
> I'll shoot a ground hog if it's eating my garden or to eat.
> I dont aim to eat a crow so I wont shoot them unless their eating my garden
> I don't fish carp or eat them so I just throw them back. But I have tried eating them. And I have made them were you could. Just not something I like.
> Like I said these are my thoughts only and feel free to have yours. But the slob hunter is what we taught according to the state of Ohio in hunters safety
> 
> Thats a hunter who either breaks the law by over possession or littering papers ,animals what ever. Ones who open gates and dont close or a numerous list of things. Leaving dead animals laying around and not removing them isnt a good thing either.
> I also not agree if some thing is legal its right. There are a lot of things legal today I disagree with. But as I said in my first post. It's my opinion and not required of any one else. And if me thinking this way insults some one so be it,. I wont loose any sleep over it.


Well now that you have made yourself more clear i.e your first post said "you wouldn't shoot at any dog that wasn't attacking you....your second reply stated that you indeed would shoot a yote for it's fur value, I would tend to have opinions that are simular to yours. As far as guys who "kill for the thrill of killing" being included in the "slob hunter" group..... any deer hunter who hunts for that "monster rack" is simply hunting for the thrill of the kill....a trophy buck...... and as you and I know that would be the majority of hunters that hunt deer.


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## Buck36

I read all seven pages of this and I am now even more confused. So am I supposed to protest at the "Get the Carp Outta Here" tournament at Grand Lake Saint Mary's or participate?


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## Bluegill_Guru

Buck36 said:


> I read all seven pages of this and I am now even more confused. So am I supposed to protest at the "Get the Carp Outta Here" tournament at Grand Lake Saint Mary's or participate?


hahaha Yes this thread became one hellacious clusterpluck. :S


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## fontinalis

who's on first?


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## Bob From Salem

DB4x4 said:


> I don't post much on here, (usually just sit in the shadows and read the comments) but I figured I would weigh in on this one.
> 
> Two years ago, I bought a new hunting bow and retired my 12 year old PSE Spyder. Since then, the ol' PSE had been sitting in the basement collecting dust. This year, I decided to put a bottle line/reel on it, bring it out of retirement, and try bowfishing.
> 
> For those who haven't tried it, I have to admit...it IS a lot of fun and borderline addictive, ha. But like many have mentioned on here, I faced the moral dilemma of what to do with the fish once shot. I don't really want to eat it, and once you get good at it, you realize you end up with entirely too much for just one (or two...or even three peoople).
> 
> Here was my solution:
> 
> 1) I decided to shoot as many as possible while they were spawning. (Fun)
> 2) Hone my filleting skills (I usually practice CPR, so never I filleted many fish)
> 3) Donate the meat to a local rescue mission food bank (I called ahead of time and they verified they would accept fish as long as it was filleted)
> 4) Give the scraps to Pops for his garden
> 
> This way, I was able to have fun...learned a new skill, and none of the fish goes to waste. I have also on several occasions given carp to fisherman right there on the bank who were more than willing to take them home and eat them. (This is my preferred method of donation, that way I don't have to do all the work, ha!)
> 
> My point is...Yes, I know carp aren't the best eating fish out there...however, there is almost always someone willing to eat it. Why let it unnecessarily go to waste?
> 
> That said, anyone ever wonder what 50 lbs of donated frozen fish fillets looks like?


:good: Excellent post!

And I'm sure plenty of families were grateful for the fish you provided. Well done!


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## Bass-Chad

Alright this will be the last time I will chime in on this post. I was drinking my morning coffee on the commode about an hour ago. It dawned on me, if all the bow fishers are "oh carp are invasive" but, you bowfish them for fun. Do you go out and kill them because you have a Manson complex? I thought fishing in any manor was meant to be fun. 

People saying hunters do not hunt for the killing. Well, the kill is the thrill of the hunt. If you did not want to kill an animal you would be better off with a BB gun and a bunch of lined up cans to shoot. I see no problem with hunting nor bowfishing if done properly. If I seen someone going out and shooting anything that moved I would confront them just as I would if I seen someone throwing carp up onto shore and leaving. It is all about respecting the land and the animals are part of the land like it or not. I hate snakes more than anything in this world but, I do not go out and look for them just to kill them I understand they serve a purpose just like everything else. If one attacks me then yes, I will kill it. 

My last sentence brings me to my next point, Asian Carp. If Ohio waters some how are over run by Asian carp, then that is the time to treat them as trash fish. They will destroy boats, take lives and ruin fishing holes. Common carp on the other hand have been here longer than most of our Great Grandparents. Would you go and shoot your Great Grandparents because they are different than what you know? Maybe they eat bass and you don't like that. Does that give you the right to haul off and shoot them? No, I am not downing bowfishing as it is a sport I would like to take up. DB4x4 gave me a great idea, I will be getting in touch with a few homeless shelters and church missionaries to see if they want the filets. If they do and I see an overrun spot, I will be either shooting them with a bow or snagging them. 

All in all though boys, a lot of us are making a bigger deal out of this than it should be. Just relax you cannot change people they are how they are and you have to deal with it.


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## Bluegill_Guru

@Chad
Good post dude. Soon as I seen the word "commode" I almost died laughing. Jocularity aside, your points are certainly valid, and I wish you luck on helping to feed some hungry folks.



fontinalis said:


> who's on first?


Is that your hand I see raised, way in back?


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## Bass-Chad

Bluegill_Guru said:


> @Chad
> Good post dude. Soon as I seen the word "commode" I almost died laughing. Jocularity aside, your points are certainly valid, and I wish you luck on helping to feed some hungry folks.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your hand I see raised, way in back?


Lol thanks, I get my best ideas on the commode while drinking coffee and reading field and stream.


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## TheCream

[email protected] said:


> I'm doing my best to answer your questions. You seem to be selective in answering mine.
> 
> What about the groundhogs? They're State owned game the same as fish. If I see one, it's dead and I'm not eating or skinning it and enjoy the sport of killing those evasive critters. I used my bass in the compost as an example of killing something for the greater good though it admittedly isn't all the relevant to the point of this discussion.
> 
> Would the water quality be better without carp?
> 
> As far as Snowden:
> 
> Is your conclusion that the bass fishing has improved because of the presence carp?
> 
> Is your conclusion that the native sportfish fishing would not be improved by the removal of carp?
> 
> Do you think maybe the slot limit on bass is contributing to Snowden's success?
> 
> Would you recommend adding carp to fisheries that do not have established populations for the greater good of these fisheries?
> 
> What kind of effect on the other fish would you expect from removing 50% of the carp from Lake Snowden or DOW?
> 
> I don't think I have exaggerated anything and there are often exceptions to every rule. I have been trying to get across that they are in all known cases not beneficial other than to those who target them and they in most cases decrease the productivity of bodies of water in our region. At the very least, their presence alone means they are taking up biomass and are therefore limiting resources for native, non-invasive fish. The carp are causing far less harm than man though.
> 
> I must only be fishing the bad lakes. I've never been to DOW Lake either. To theorize a possibility to support your case, I suppose that under the right circumstances, carp could disrupt spawing grounds of largemouth bass therefore reducing recruitment. Less mouths to feed means more for those that do survive to grow larger at the cost of numbers of fish. If this is the case for DOW lake, it would be exceptional. My guess is the slot limit it contributing more to the success of this fishery more than the carp though.
> 
> The reality is that carp are here to stay. They are fun to catch and those who shoot and kill them are within the law and their rights. It does not make them any lesser of a sportman for doing so just as carp fisherman are no less of sportman. I have only seen a handful bowfishers in action. I even saw a 30 foot kill shot from a boat that I was impressed by. He had several nice ones on a stringer hung from the front of his boat.
> 
> I once witnessed a pair of young men leaving their dead carp in a heap on the bank. They had buzzards circling before they were finished. Even though nature quickly took care of it, I do feel this was inconsiderate of others using the area and unlawful. *At the very least, intentionally leaving them on the bank would be littering equivalent to an apple core or banana peel*.


I'm sorry, you're completely missing the point on the Snowden and Dow mentions I made. These are two examples where other gamefish are thriving _*in spite of the carp being there in good numbers*_. No, I am not suggesting they help and no, I am not suggesting they be stocked everywhere. I am merely pointing out that there are two solid examples of small SE Ohio lakes that have common carp, but also have great populations and fishing for other species. And both also have no water clarity issues, outside of a heavy rain pushing runoff into Dow. All I am doing is pointing out two public lakes where the carp presence has not caused the sky to fall in any way.

As for your last comment, I usually have at least 3 deer carcasses to dispose of throughout the hunting season after I have butchered them. Do you mind if I dump them in your front yard? The buzzards will get them quickly and it's organic, just like apple cores and banana peels?


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## buckeyebowman

TheCream said:


> Ever been to Lake Snowden in SE Ohio? Gorgeous little lake, gin clear water and more aquatic weed growth than you can imagine once you hit summer time. The bass fishing has really improved, too. They even broadcast that fact on the website for the lake.
> 
> http://www.lakesnowden.com/fishing
> 
> It's funny...the bass fishing has improved and the water quality is amazing out there...even with the presence of the "aquatic feral pigs." How does that happen? I thought they ruined everything?


Interesting post, and it reminded me of something. Since this thread has gone off in several different directions I thought I'd chime in again.

When I was young, for cheap entertainment, Dad used to take the gang of us down to a bridge (Yerke-Young Rd.) that crossed Meander Reservoir which is the water supply for Youngstown and other areas in the Mahoning Valley. Meander is also closed to fishing which makes many local anglers drool! We'd take a bag of cheap bread, which, at the time, you could get for 19 cents and feed the fish. There were ungodly huge carp in there! I know that in memories from childhood things seem bigger than they really were, but I swear there were 30 and 40 pounders! Now, sometimes folks would be tempted to try to fish off the bridge. I was there one time and a guy was hand lining, throwing a good old CP Swing spinner. Remember those? He'd just lift/drop it as it swung back toward the bridge. He set the hook and pulled in a fish that looked about 18" which I took to be a bass. I moseyed on over and told him that was a real nice bass he caught. He looked at me like I was crazy, reached down and pulled a fish from the sack saying, "Bass, hell! That's a crappie, man!" It was the biggest crappie I'd ever seen in my life! Side by side with all those huge carp. And he had a sack full of them!


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## buckeyebowman

catfishnut said:


> Well now that you have made yourself more clear i.e your first post said "you wouldn't shoot at any dog that wasn't attacking you....your second reply stated that you indeed would shoot a yote for it's fur value, I would tend to have opinions that are simular to yours. As far as guys who "kill for the thrill of killing" being included in the "slob hunter" group..... any deer hunter who hunts for that "monster rack" is simply hunting for the thrill of the kill....a trophy buck...... and as you and I know that would be the majority of hunters that hunt deer.


Don't mean to split hairs here, but I've known, and known of, some deer "hunters" who hunt for the "monster racks" and the thrill of the kill. When successful they then saw the skull plate off and leave the carcass lay. That is a true slob hunter and certainly *not* the majority of deer hunters! 

I'm primarily a meat hunter, but would I be "thrilled" if the Lord of the Forest decided to walk by my stand? You bet! But, I'm also thrilled if a fat, mature doe comes my way. I can sit watching deer with no intentions of shooting and be cool as a cucumber. But, If I intend to draw on one and cause what feels like a "big death", all the same emotions come into play whether there is headgear or not. That's why I call it "deer fever" and not "buck fever".


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## "chillin"

I shoot em on sight. Lmao. If anybody wants em leave your number i will call...shoot hundreds every year!

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## Bob From Salem

buckeyebowman said:


> Interesting post, and it reminded me of something. Since this thread has gone off in several different directions I thought I'd chime in again.
> 
> When I was young, for cheap entertainment, Dad used to take the gang of us down to a bridge (Yerke-Young Rd.) that crossed Meander Reservoir which is the water supply for Youngstown and other areas in the Mahoning Valley. Meander is also closed to fishing which makes many local anglers drool! We'd take a bag of cheap bread, which, at the time, you could get for 19 cents and feed the fish. There were ungodly huge carp in there! I know that in memories from childhood things seem bigger than they really were, but I swear there were 30 and 40 pounders! Now, sometimes folks would be tempted to try to fish off the bridge. I was there one time and a guy was hand lining, throwing a good old CP Swing spinner. Remember those? He'd just lift/drop it as it swung back toward the bridge. He set the hook and pulled in a fish that looked about 18" which I took to be a bass. I moseyed on over and told him that was a real nice bass he caught. He looked at me like I was crazy, reached down and pulled a fish from the sack saying, "Bass, hell! That's a crappie, man!" It was the biggest crappie I'd ever seen in my life! Side by side with all those huge carp. And he had a sack full of them!


LOL!! That might've been my cousin. He got busted at least 3 times during his life "fishing" Meander. I'd love just one day on that lake.


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## Jmsteele187

Carp have been in American waters since German guy decided that he wanted to fish for the nasty fish from his homeland and stocked the waters near him. At least that's the story I heard of how carp were introduced to our waters, and I've heard the same story many times from many different places. They've been here for a very long time and we have been trying to get rid of them for a very long time. They have been considered an invasive species for almost as long as they have been here. The problem is that almost no one fish for them, and even fewer eat them. Although there has been an influx of carp fisherman in the past couple years. Personally I don't understand why people even want to fish for them. Whenever I catch them, I just want to get them off my damn line so I can fish for something worth catching. I think there is a reason they are considered "rough fish" and not a "sport fish".


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## Jmsteele187

That being said, I still don't agree with just killing them for fun and tossing them on the bank. At least use it for bait, fertilizer, dog food or... If you're willing, dinner.


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## carpslayer

You are rediculus!
Learn something before you post

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## Jmsteele187

Sorry, just playing devils advocate. There are a number of stories about how carp were introduced into our waters. The story I shared is just the one I've heard over and over and over again. I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, if you want to fish for trash fish more power to ya. That just means more good fish for the rest of us.


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## "chillin"

Jmsteele187 said:


> Sorry, just playing devils advocate. There are a number of stories about how carp were introduced into our waters. The story I shared is just the one I've heard over and over and over again. I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, if you want to fish for trash fish more power to ya. That just means more good fish for the rest of us.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Amen

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## Bobst03

Most of the carp that I catch are out of the river. fishing close to the dam down here, the water stays pretty swift. The carp usually pull hard and are just strong in general. Years of catching these fish, mainly on crankbaits, I have been hooked, trying to realease them, messed up the hooks, broken lines and lost lures on these "junk" fish, atleast in my book. Couple years ago though was my last straw, brought a big one to the boat, it flopped out of the net and into the boat. There is a 200 some odd dollar Kistlar rod with a shimano curado reel lying on the bottom or jammed in a brushpile about a half mile down river of the greenup dam. With that being said, Now, everytime I hook into a fish and the big purple, slimy turd shows its self, he gets to the boat and insted of meeting a pile of rods and reels to kick in, he is met with a 12 in pair of needle nose pliers across the head. I do not intend to kill the fish, only to subdue the fish until I can hook out of its mouth without being hooked, tearing up my bait, or losing any more equipment. Do they survive? Maybe, maybe not. Do I care? Not about a carp, sorry. They are everywhere! I go bass fishing and fish for hours and may not catch one. Carp on the other hand, especially in the river or lake Erie, if you havent caught a carp, then you just aint fishing. All I am saying people, do not worry about the carp population, we will never get rid of em.


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## ohioiceman

so on the CARP forum of this site, where people that like to fish for carp go to 
chat, it is perfectly fine to tell stories of how members like to kill carp
(bowfishing thought we had a forum for that), members like to tell the carpers 
how there fish is trash and deserves to die. Even have moderators on the CARP 
forum bragging about killing hundreds of them. So when I start posting on the 
bass forum, crappie, walleye etc. about how I like to catch these species and 
kill them because, well, killing them is cool, I don't have to worry about getting 
posts locked or banned, right?

A few points:

1) I do not like bowfishing but in the past I would never go to the BOWFISHING forum and run down, belittle or argue with them on there forum. 

2)buuut since we even have moderators posting here I guess the gates are open.

3)will have some good pics of them bass dirt swimming in my bean fields up this weekend.


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## viper1

ohioiceman said:


> so on the CARP forum of this site, where people that like to fish for carp go to
> chat, it is perfectly fine to tell stories of how members like to kill carp
> (bowfishing thought we had a forum for that), members like to tell the carpers
> how there fish is trash and deserves to die. Even have moderators on the CARP
> forum bragging about killing hundreds of them. So when I start posting on the
> bass forum, crappie, walleye etc. about how I like to catch these species and
> kill them because, well, killing them is cool, I don't have to worry about getting
> posts locked or banned, right?
> 
> A few points:
> 
> 1) I do not like bowfishing but in the past I would never go to the BOWFISHING forum and run down, belittle or argue with them on there forum.
> 
> 2)buuut since we even have moderators posting here I guess the gates are open.
> 
> 3)will have some good pics of them bass dirt swimming in my bean fields up this weekend.


Now this is my Opinion, nothing more nothing less. The truth as I see it. Not necessarily the same as any other person or the administration. So take it for what its worth. Just want to make it clear as some always take my statements wrong. I know Im being corny but I would like to see this going back to a more caring and sharing board and a lot less hostility that seems to rule here.

Dont care for killing any thing my self or a lot of things. But don't feel i have a right to tell others that. I will say I dont believe that way. As far as moderators and administration. They are as bias as any one I find. Even to the point of ignoring in fractures from friends and other things. But guess that means their human.

Also dont feel the need to argue any more as even carp fisherman have to realize their promoted as trash fish. Not sports fish so they are not the same. And arguing on OGF has never done any thing to help. If they are serious and really wanting to change the status well they can start on a state or federal level and not on single people.
Now before any one wants to disagree or fly off the handle just remember.
Im 59 and set in my ways and opinion. They can be changed but its hard,treats and name calling or swearing cant do it. Because at my age I welcome death and enjoy life. So im not afraid. Most of all because I like intelligent information. and I do like discussion. Which dont happen here much any more. Not sure if its just today s style or young kids or just adults thinking as young kids. But discussion is different then an argument because you dont point fingers swear or call names if you dont know all ready.


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## ohioiceman

Don't believe I called anyone a name, swore at anyone or thing and the only finger I pointed was toward a Moderator that was fanning the flames.


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## viper1

ohioiceman said:


> Don't believe I called anyone a name, swore at anyone or thing and the only finger I pointed was toward a Moderator that was fanning the flames.



Well dont believe I said you did either. Just referring to every one. When I choose to speak to an individual I most times pm. Simply because Im not wanting attention just an answer.
But I believe your right people running this site should fan anything. Nice if they can involve there self's with out causing anger or problems. But if not then they shouldn't get involved as they choose to take that job. Not talking about any certain person,but I also have seen it down. And the user who keeps this board going always lose's.


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## MassillonBuckeye

viper1 said:


> Well dont believe I said you did either. Just referring to every one. When I choose to speak to an individual I most times pm. Simply because Im not wanting attention just an answer.
> But I believe your right people running this site should fan anything. Nice if they can involve there self's with out causing anger or problems. But if not then they shouldn't get involved as they choose to take that job. Not talking about any certain person,but I also have seen it down. And the user who keeps this board going always lose's.


It's one thing to share an opposing view in an effort to discuss it. It's another to just throw something out there to see what bites. Doesn't seem like he was interested in dialog.


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## "chillin"

Well gentlemen the asian carp will be arriving in ohio rivers now. Pretty sure everyone will wanna kill them for fun. 

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## jlami

I would have to say that killing carp is not just for fun, the asian carp that were introduced into these ecosystems cause problems. I have seen it first hand growing up on the missouri and mississippi rivers when I was a kid we had a phenomenal population of walleye sm, catfish of dam near every kind, sturgeon,etc. After the asian carp made there way into the river system everything declined due to loss of environment, food source etc. You see videos of the guys driving the boat and all the carp jumping out of the water and knocking them around? That is no joke! MO Dept. of Conservation actually offered a bounty at one point trying to eradicate this alien fish from our ecosystem. In fact they now allow use of firearms to remove them from flood plains and slues. It is a blast! Now being southern as I am, I will tell you they taste delicious when prepared properly but that is hard to do. You have to be a really old black guy. Lol but nonetheless I would definitely say to kill as many as you can and pray it does not get out of hand like it did back home because these water ways will never ever ever be the same!

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## channel catfish fisheman

carp should die they are disgusting and are ruining our ecosystem of good fish like catfish and walleye


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## viper1

channel catfish fisheman said:


> carp should die they are disgusting and are ruining our ecosystem of good fish like catfish and walleye


Love your Dedication to sportsmanship and ecosystem all rolled in one. Ive heard the same about people who kill fish and animals but really never believed any one believed it. LOLOLOLOLOLLOOLOL


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## crappielooker

Heyyyy ohioiceman, nice to see you on here again maan.. Let's just go carpin' man.. 
Let the topic like this one just die out like it always have.. ^^)


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## Bob From Salem

channel catfish fisheman said:


> carp should die they are disgusting and are ruining our ecosystem of good fish like catfish and walleye


I feel the same way about catfish. Disgusting and nasty fish! Eradicate them!

If only our lakes and rivers were filled with just bass, sunfish, crappie, and walleye.


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## viper1

Well you'll never get rid on one side thinking people. In fact Ive heard the same thing said about people who drink ,smoke use drugs,race cars, like rock and roll and so on.
Truth is its just unmanaged talk. As no small group could ever damage either of them. LOL But sure makes it easy to see how the government and special interest groups split the sportsman. Makes it easy to hurt the whole sport that way. Same thing with the different types of bow hunting. Seems we'd further or goals more my tolerance for sportsman and fighting those trying to destroy it. Guess if we can't fit in to that group we are part of the problem.


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