# 85 Johnson fuel issue



## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

I bought a boat and it had an older Johnson 85 hp on it I knew nothing about the motor. I decided to mess with it today and I checked and got fire at the plugs but it would not start. I pumped the ball up and tried again and no start. I pulled the air baffle off and sprayed gas into carbs and it started right now. I ran it on the muffs for awhile and turned it off. Turned the key again and it started right away. My question is: Do you think the fuel pump was not working at first and after I primed the carbs it came to life. I know the carbs were getting gas when the motor ran for awhile. Thanks much


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

turkeyt said:


> I bought a boat and it had an older Johnson 85 hp on it I knew nothing about the motor. I decided to mess with it today and I checked and got fire at the plugs but it would not start. I pumped the ball up and tried again and no start. I pulled the air baffle off and sprayed gas into carbs and it started right now. I ran it on the muffs for awhile and turned it off. Turned the key again and it started right away. My question is: Do you think the fuel pump was not working at first and after I primed the carbs it came to life. I know the carbs were getting gas when the motor ran for awhile. Thanks much


Sounds like you got lucky. It could be the fuel pump though. If you try cold start again and again and she fires you may be ok . I would run it on the muffs and while running visually check for leaks on fuel pump and all fuel hoses. Leaks could be your problem whether the rubber diaphram in the fuel pump or hoses


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

I checked for leaks and did not notice any. Had water spraying out the water oulet holes since this one does not have the pee hole hose and heads never even got warm. (wonder if thermostat is in there?) Hard to imagine the motor ran that well after it started. I was looking for a pump repair kit and it showed the 85 starting 1978 and up. This is a 76 and it does not show a kit for that year for the 85 hp. Also * said if pump had been replaced it would take a different kit anyway. Hard trying to figure all that out.


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

turkeyt said:


> I checked for leaks and did not notice any. Had water spraying out the water oulet holes since this one does not have the pee hole hose and heads never even got warm. (wonder if thermostat is in there?) Hard to imagine the motor ran that well after it started. I was looking for a pump repair kit and it showed the 85 starting 1978 and up. This is a 76 and it does not show a kit for that year for the 85 hp. Also * said if pump had been replaced it would take a different kit anyway. Hard trying to figure all that out.


If the heads did not get warm you are probably ok on the impeller located in the lower unit which is connected to the vertical drive shaft which is the water pump. They are bladed and made of hard rubber and do go bad periodically but for now seems to be working. Replacing amounts to removing lower unit and the impeller housing which is small and held by maybe three bolts a small amount of grease should be added to the impeller to help in twisting it in. Make sure the blades are twisting in the same way as the old one.Based on what you are saying you do get it started with a squirt of gas and it stays running.It still sounds like a gas problem as you have air and spark. The last thing needed is gas and your motor sounds like it is not priming the carbs with gas.Some motors have electronic primers which when you push the choke button on your controls prime the carbs with gas. Force outboards have this and they go bad and those little plastic boxes cost a bunch. I had one and rather than replace I put a lawn mower control cable on the motor which when pulled out opened the throttle allowing gas into the carbs. Starts every time. I would first start at your tank and work your way from there to the carbs. Pump the ball on the tank see if it stays hard make sure the arrow on the bulb points toward the engine. Put a rag down and taking a phillips head screw driver depress the little ball inside hose fitting that would connect to the motor. If gas comes out tank and hose working. Next thing is to follow gas lines in the motor to the carbs. Check for leaks.Pull those carb hoses off carbs and look for obstructions. you may be able to run a small wire into the gas in on the carbs to see if they are solid with dried gas and sediment. Also if you hook up the gas tank to the motor pump the ball till hard do it slowly. Wait 15 then see if the ball is soft. If it is the gas pump diaphram is bad [losing suction]replace it its a couple of bucks


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

Check the compression on it Ive got the same motor but a 74 model it would crank forever and not start spray gas in it and take right off and run the rest of the day but it set for a week same over checked compression it was low had 85 on 3 cylinders and 73 on 1 so it needed rebuilt so I ended up on Ebay and bought a 115 powerhead with good compression cheaper than rebuilding the 85 so now I have a parts engine and it runs great now and easy starting so check that compression 1st may be your problem or could be sucking air


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

fishtales said:


> If it is the gas pump diaphram is bad [losing suction]replace it its a couple of bucks


Do you mean in the fuel pump or the bulb?


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

Yep compression would be the next thing to look at. The comp gauge will tell you.Rings could be bad on one or more cylinders. My buddy has one that starts and runs great but will not idle for trolling. Im hoping you are looking at a gas prob


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

turkeyt said:


> Do you mean in the fuel pump or the bulb?


bulb on gas line to tank


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

slimdaddy45 said:


> check that compression 1st may be your problem


I checked the compression, but I will check it again if this continues. Thanks


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks a whole lot for all the comments. I appreciate the info.


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

turkeyt said:


> Thanks a whole lot for all the comments. I appreciate the info.


Hope you get fixed. Another thought do you have a cold start lever on your controls?If so make sure it is lifted up for cold start


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## Kwall (Feb 12, 2014)

turkeyt said:


> Thanks a whole lot for all the comments. I appreciate the info.


I would pull the fuel pump off , make sure it's clean , a friend had a fuel problem this year , found out the inside of the hose broke down plug the pump , clean it runs like new


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

fishtales said:


> bulb on gas line to tank


sorry not bulb on gas line but diaphragm on fuel pump


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

turkeyt said:


> I checked the compression, but I will check it again if this continues. Thanks


Was all 4 within 10 lb of each other they should be about 120 or close where you located at


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

sounds like the diaphragm in the fuel pump on the motor might have been a little dry and stiff and not pumping gas. if the problem persists rebuild the fuel pump.
sherman


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

Live below Marietta
I will check more on sorting out what may be the issue. I was surprised that I got it running. I just hope the rings are not shot.


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

sherman51 said:


> sounds like the diaphragm in the fuel pump on the motor might have been a little dry and stiff and not pumping gas. if the problem persists rebuild the fuel pump.
> sherman


I agree a new diaphram is easily replaced and inexpensive.Do it. Also the squeeze bulb on the gas tank can go bad


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

sherman51 said:


> sounds like the diaphragm in the fuel pump on the motor might have been a little dry and stiff and not pumping gas. if the problem persists rebuild the fuel pump.
> sherman


The problem with rebuilding the fuel pump is that they do not show a rebuild kit for a 1976 Johnson 85hp. I think they may have changed something since the kits start with the 1978. I have checked and a new pump is around 80 bucks.
Once the motor runs it pumps gas from the tank. I plan to let it set for a couple days and then crank it up again.


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

turkeyt said:


> The problem with rebuilding the fuel pump is that they do not show a rebuild kit for a 1976 Johnson 85hp. I think they may have changed something since the kits start with the 1978. I have checked and a new pump is around 80 bucks.
> Once the motor runs it pumps gas from the tank. I plan to let it set for a couple days and then crank it up again.


 Right now it still points to the pump diaphram it's a rubber piece sandwiched between the two plastic pump covers. You should be able to find one at marine supply or boat dealer


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## fishtales (May 8, 2012)

fishtales said:


> Right now it still points to the pump diaphram it's a rubber piece sandwiched between the two plastic pump covers. You should be able to find one at marine supply or boat dealer


Also the motor you have may be different year than you think take the numbers off the id tag on the motor and cross-reference on line to make sure of year and model. Also I would do compression check b-4 buying parts just to make sure each cylinder is fairly close to same on compression within 10 lbs. The rebuild for fuel pump somewhere between $12 -$20


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## firemanmike2127 (Mar 17, 2013)

Did you check the choke shutters to make sure that they closed fully when you energized the solenoid? A sticky solenoid plunger or linkage can keep the choke flaps from closing fully. You'll also want to ensure that the choke linkage is properly adjusted so that both choke shutters seal properly in the carburetor air inlet when the solenoid is energized. The primer bulb could also be a problem area if the engine had not been run for a long time. Sometimes a bulb will not 'prime' properly. The bulb should be prettty firm when it has the carbs full of fuel. I prefer a good high quality bulb from OMC which is equipped with a pair of check valves. I've seen plenty of problems with junk quality/generic brand primer bulbs & refuse to put them on my customers equipment. A good bulb like I described runs about $ 26.00 & is worth every penny IMO. The fuel pump should put out somewhere between 4.5-6 psi of pressure depending on the engine RPM. There are F/P rebuild kits readily available for that model year. Hope this helps. Mike


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

It is a 1976. I verified it from the model numbers off the tag. When I was at the Marina getting a key for the switch, the owner mentioned something about a change after 1976. I wish I could remember what he said. Worse case, I can take that fuel pump diaphragm with me and see if he can match it. I am going to do another compression test and try a restart on Monday.

I used the fuel tank and hose/bulb from my boat I fish with so it is good. I had the air baffle off so I could see everything and the "butterflies" were closed when I tried to first start the motor. It just acted like it was not getting fuel and the plugs were dry when I pulled them. Once I sprayed the fuel in the carbs it started and ran fine. The real question is: Will it start up next week when I try again?


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## firemanmike2127 (Mar 17, 2013)

The motor should start with the fuel in the carburetor bowls. A fuel pump issue will affect the running quality, since a faulty pump will not be able to maintain the proper level of fuel in the carburetore. If the engine is not starting well with the carburetors full (fresh fuel, of course) & a properly working choke the problem is elsewhere.Mike. [ QUOTE="turkeyt, post: 2133511, member: 5990"]It is a 1976. I verified it from the model numbers off the tag. When I was at the Marina getting a key for the switch, the owner mentioned something about a change after 1976. I wish I could remember what he said. Worse case, I can take that fuel pump diaphragm with me and see if he can match it. I am going to do another compression test and try a restart on Monday.

I used the fuel tank and hose/bulb from my boat I fish with so it is good. I had the air baffle off so I could see everything and the "butterflies" were closed when I tried to first start the motor. It just acted like it was not getting fuel and the plugs were dry when I pulled them. Once I sprayed the fuel in the carbs it started and ran fine. The real question is: Will it start up next week when I try again?[/QUOTE]


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

I have a 79 115 hp mercury that just wont start when its cold unless I prime it. I've rebuilt the fuel pump and I just spent 650.00 getting the carbs rebuilt and other new parts on the carbs, after it starts then I can shut it off and it'll start right back up. let it set for a couple of hours and maybe it'll start and maybe i'll have to prime it.
sherman


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

It sounds to me like you probably have a primer solenoid, not a choke. Next time you are going to try starting it, do this. Pump the squeeze ball pump until it is firm, turn the key on and push it in. You should hear an audible click coming from the front of the engine. If so, push it in and out 4 times, then, turn the key over to crank. Crank about 5 seconds. If no start, try pushing the key in and out 2 or 3 more times, and crank again. It may be necessary to push the key in and out a few more times to keep it running. If you get a lean sneeze after it fires, push the key in 3 or 4 more times. Just because you don't hear the click doesn't mean you don't have a primer solenoid, it may just be bad.

The reason for this is the fuel pump works on vacuum. If you follow the hoses, you will find one that goes to the back into a fitting on the head. It takes the engine running for a minute or so to build enough vacuum to work the pump. That clicking noise is an electric solenoid that pumps little shots of fuel directly into the carburetor, giving it fuel to run until the fuel pump catches up.

Also, if they haven't already been changed, you probably want to replace all of the fuel lines. Those older lines are not alcohol resistant, and don't play well with the new 10% ethanol gas.


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## firemanmike2127 (Mar 17, 2013)

I Fish, all good advice & I second your opinion on replacing any older fuel lines - both under the hood & from the tank to the engine. I suspect that Sherman51 might have an older inline 6 (not sure though). That particular series of engines usually only has a choke flap on the two lower carbs. They (inline 6 cylinder O/B's) tend to be very cold-blooded, especially when there is no heat built up in the block. Mike


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

turkeyt said:


> It is a 1976. I verified it from the model numbers off the tag. When I was at the Marina getting a key for the switch, the owner mentioned something about a change after 1976. I wish I could remember what he said. Worse case, I can take that fuel pump diaphragm with me and see if he can match it. I am going to do another compression test and try a restart on Monday.
> 
> I used the fuel tank and hose/bulb from my boat I fish with so it is good. I had the air baffle off so I could see everything and the "butterflies" were closed when I tried to first start the motor. It just acted like it was not getting fuel and the plugs were dry when I pulled them. Once I sprayed the fuel in the carbs it started and ran fine. The real question is: Will it start up next week when I try again?


Are you holding the key in while cranking it only chokes when you push the key in so hold it in and try or it has a manual choke lever on the motor be on the right side towards the bottom buy the air box


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

I Fish said:


> It sounds to me like you probably have a primer solenoid, not a choke. Next time you are going to try starting it, do this. Pump the squeeze ball pump until it is firm, turn the key on and push it in. You should hear an audible click coming from the front of the engine. If so, push it in and out 4 times, then, turn the key over to crank. Crank about 5 seconds. If no start, try pushing the key in and out 2 or 3 more times, and crank again. It may be necessary to push the key in and out a few more times to keep it running. If you get a lean sneeze after it fires, push the key in 3 or 4 more times. Just because you don't hear the click doesn't mean you don't have a primer solenoid, it may just be bad.
> 
> The reason for this is the fuel pump works on vacuum. If you follow the hoses, you will find one that goes to the back into a fitting on the head. It takes the engine running for a minute or so to build enough vacuum to work the pump. That clicking noise is an electric solenoid that pumps little shots of fuel directly into the carburetor, giving it fuel to run until the fuel pump catches up.
> 
> Also, if they haven't already been changed, you probably want to replace all of the fuel lines. Those older lines are not alcohol resistant, and don't play well with the new 10% ethanol gas.


His motor doesnt have a primer solenoid it has an electric choke


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

turkeyt said:


> Live below Marietta
> I will check more on sorting out what may be the issue. I was surprised that I got it running. I just hope the rings are not shot.


If it runs ok when it was running more than likely the fuel pump was working im in Nelsonville and have parts to try if you dont wanna throw money at it thats not needed Ive got a complete powerhead out there but you would have to bring it up and swap parts out to see I also have a manual for it I think it was from 73-77 are all the same


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## firemanmike2127 (Mar 17, 2013)

I'd also check the throttle linkage back at the engine. Make sure that when you raise the warm-up lever on the control box that the throttle linkage advances on the engine & the carburetor butterflies open up (1/4" gap or so)/. Check for any excessive movement in the cable when the throttle is advanced (lever in the up position). The cable should be adjusted so there is light tension on the idle speed stop screw when the warm up lever is in the down position (not advanced). Mike


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

Since I have the air baffle off I can see the butterflies. I plan to check the compression again.


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

Well, I let the motor sit for about a week and went out pumped the bulb and bingo, started right up. Hope that it continues to do that. Lol


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

The number for the yr it should say 85EL76 LAST 2 ARE THE YR OF THE MOTOR j


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## sherman51 (Apr 12, 2011)

turkeyt said:


> Well, I let the motor sit for about a week and went out pumped the bulb and bingo, started right up. Hope that it continues to do that. Lol


wish you all the best on your motor. glad to hear its starting for you. could have been something in the jets that got washed out from running your motor. I would run some seafoam in my gas for a few tanks anyway. doesn't hurt to use it on a regular basis.
sherman


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

slimdaddy45 said:


> The number for the yr it should say 85EL76 LAST 2 ARE THE YR OF THE MOTOR j


It is an 85EL76. I looked for a fuel pump rebuild kit for that year and no one shows one online.


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## turkeyt (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks to all


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

Ebay these fuel pumps fit several different motors lots of aftermarket parts out there but sounds like your all good now


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## BlueMax (Dec 3, 2006)

Ethanol baby, ethanol maybe cleaned the carbs etc when it sat for a week.


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