# Shot gun question?



## joerugz (Feb 28, 2007)

I have a Winchester model #1300 12 gage pump. When I shoot it, the action comes back about half way open. Is this right?


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

During the guns recoil you might be pulling back on the slide somewhat without really knowing it...once you shoot that gun is automatically ready for you to rack another shell in the chamber..thats the only thing I can think of right off hand...if its not that you might have a problem for a smith to look into.


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

not if you are holding the forearm to keep it closed????? i had the same gun and used to shoot it 1 handed and yes it would open up if i did not have a hand on the forearm.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

freyedknot said:


> not if you are holding the forearm to keep it closed????? i had the same gun and used to shoot it 1 handed and yes it would open up if i did not have a hand on the forearm.


My thought was that as the gun is recoiling backwards if his hand for some reason is coming backwards as well then that might be why its opening up


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

> My thought was that as the gun is recoiling backwards if his hand for some reason is coming backwards as well then that might be why its opening up


I would guess that's the case as well. I know my action opens when I shoot 3.5" turkey loads. I'm so glad to still have all my teeth after a shot, I don't worry about it.


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## joerugz (Feb 28, 2007)

When sighting in, the gun was resting and opened upon discharge. I then held it in a shooting stance and it only opened halfway with my hand on the pump. Is this something to look into or nothing to worry about? The gun is in excellent condition, clean and well taken care of.


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

the forearm is connected directly to the bolt and should not open if you held it closed. if it still opens when held closed it may need to be looked at. mi 1300 was from 1970 era and was built very well.i am not sure about the newere guns even the 870'sare nowhere near the same quality.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

joerugz said:


> When sighting in, the gun was resting and opened upon discharge. I then held it in a shooting stance and it only opened halfway with my hand on the pump. Is this something to look into or nothing to worry about? The gun is in excellent condition, clean and well taken care of.


I was only guessing why something like that would happen, I myself have never seen it happen, I have only owned 870s but a friend of mine has a 1300 purchased in the very early 80s and he never had that problem, being as though the gun was prone and your hand not on the slide Im thinking...maybe you should have it looked at...I wouldnt shoot it again until a smith looks at it but thats just me.


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## DarbyMan (Dec 11, 2005)

I'm by no means an expert but that doesn't sound right. I shoot an 870 and have never had that problem. If it was me I wouldn't shoot that gun until it was looked at. Just doesn't seem very safe.


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## joerugz (Feb 28, 2007)

I've been checking out the product line at the Winchester site and most of the 1300's have a feature called "speed pump". I think this may be what I have on this gun. Unless some one can come up with another meaning for speed pump!

I appreciate all replys. I'm inexperianced when it comes to guns. I just got into hunting 4 years ago. Purchased this off of a friend who needed cash for 200 bucks. I didn't pull the trigger when turkey hunting last year. And stopped sighting it in with the slug barrell when the action was coming open.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

Was your friend having the same problem???


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## joerugz (Feb 28, 2007)

Never mention it. It was actually his father that was selling it. I asked my buddy to talk to his dad. But he was surprised by my questions. He was under the assumption that the gun was in perfect condition, which it appears to be. I mean this gun is mint. It came with two barrells. It was hardly used!


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## ohiobuck (Apr 8, 2006)

I have seen it happen to many pump guns when shooting magmun or high brass shells . I dont thank its A problem.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

I would still have it looked at before I shoot it again, Im not sure what your options are as far as a warranty since there is no more Winchester, they might have somebody covering there warranty work??? it might only apply to the original owner?? if thats the case your buddies father can send it in, hope it all works out for you.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

ohiobuck said:


> I have seen it happen to many pump guns when shooting magmun or high brass shells . I dont thank its A problem.


I have shot deer slugs through a couple 870s(not many though ) why didnt it happen then and I cant tell you how many high brass shells I have shot it just seems terribly unsafe and a heck of a liability for the MFG for this to be no big deal....I mean your head and face is awful close to that action just to go ahead and still shoot it with that going on...my guess is if this happened more than a handful of times with the 1300 Winchester would have had some sort of recall going on.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm not understanding why so many think this is unusual. Maybe I'm not understanding correctly. When you fire a pump gun, the action automatically releases so you can chamber another round. It's that way on every single pump gun I've ever shot. It's very easy for the recoil to cause the shooter to pull back on the pump, without realizing it. I've never noticed the action coming open except on 3.5" loads, but it would depend on how the person is holding the gun and applying pressure. Am I understanding the problem correctly?


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## sporty (Apr 6, 2004)

I notice this on my 870 Express with heavy loads when shooting at paper. I never notice if it happens when shooting at game. It doesn't do this with lighter loads. I never thought it to be the gun, I think it's me reacting to the recoil and pulling the pump back.


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## APD1088 (Apr 14, 2004)

I have 3 Winchester 1200's that do exactly the same thing. The reason for this as it was explained to me is to allow a faster follow-up shot as it was stated earlier. The guns won't fire out of battery, and are not a danger to the shooter.

-Brian


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

M.Magis said:


> I'm not understanding why so many think this is unusual. Maybe I'm not understanding correctly. When you fire a pump gun, the action automatically releases so you can chamber another round. It's that way on every single pump gun I've ever shot. It's very easy for the recoil to cause the shooter to pull back on the pump, without realizing it. I've never noticed the action coming open except on 3.5" loads, but it would depend on how the person is holding the gun and applying pressure. Am I understanding the problem correctly?


If I have it correctly he said he was shooting from a prone posistion and his hand was not on the slide/pump at all, which took away my original theory that his hand was bringing the slide back with the recoil.


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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

as said b4, after you fire a round the chamber should open by itself just from the recoil. but you should be able to hold it and keep it closed if you wanted too . i don't know if there would be a reason to hold the chamber closed .


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

i'm with the others.it's typical of pump actions.after 50 years of shooting my old model 12 and several other pumps,i've never had a problem.


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## joerugz (Feb 28, 2007)

I just got off the phone with the technical department at Browning/Winchester. They told me it was a feature of the gun and indeed its called "speed pump". No worries at all. They told me the gun was made in '95, and cost 400 bucks at the time. Its called the Ranger. I think I got a good deal for $250 with two barrells and a mint gun!

Thanks for everyone who responded to my question.....very helpful.


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## Smallmouth Crazy (Apr 4, 2006)

Good deal...it wouldnt be a feature I would go for but I guess there are people out there that do or it wouldnt be offered, hope you enjoy your shotgun.


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

I had a ranger slug gun around 1995. I bought it new at dicks. Sighted it in the week before gun season and found that the adjustment for the elevation on the rifle sights was not adjustable enough to put it high enough to hit the target at 50yd. Ordered a differant sight and put a few pennys under the wedge to uce it until the new sights came in. Took it out opening morning. Shot a deer at 50yd. Deer dropped and started to get up. I went to pump another round into the chamber and it jammed up. Could not get the action to open again. Deer ran about 100yd and was finished off by another hunter. When I started looking to see what happened, the finger that pushes the next round upward in the action was jammed into the wood of the fore grip. It also split the wood pretty bad. I learned to always check the action when sighting in a gun not just one into the chamber each shot. Took the gun back to Dicks and explained what happened. They told me there was nothing they coukld do, I argued for at least an hour and showed them that every single gun of that model on their rack had the same problem. After enough people walked away from the gun counter thay finally gave me my money back.

Scott


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

as mentioned by others,the bolt on a pump automatically unlocks upon firing.this is necessary to accomodate chambering another round.being attached to the forearm by the slide,it is going to be free to open with no pressure on the forearm.most moderm pumps have a trigger disconnector which requires the trigger to be released and pulled again for follow up shots.not so with some older guns like my model 12.you can hold the trigger down and pump off 7 shots without releasing it.now that's a "speed pump"


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## Darwin (Apr 12, 2004)

I have the same gun. I like the feature. I like it for night time fox hunting. I shoot a 3" magnum shell and basically hold the gun with one habd and a wheat light in the other. The gun will eject the spent shell with the shot and I can chamber the next round rather quickly if I need a follow up shot.


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## HCF (Apr 7, 2005)

I have 1300 black shadow deer speedpump. Soon as you shoot the action opens part way making for faster follow up shoots hence speedpump. It took a little getting used to but I like it.


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## joerugz (Feb 28, 2007)

Yea. Its almost like a semi-pump!


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## DarbyMan (Dec 11, 2005)

misfit said:


> as mentioned by others,the bolt on a pump automatically unlocks upon firing.this is necessary to accomodate chambering another round.being attached to the forearm by the slide,it is going to be free to open with no pressure on the forearm.most moderm pumps have a trigger disconnector which requires the trigger to be released and pulled again for follow up shots.not so with some older guns like my model 12.you can hold the trigger down and pump off 7 shots without releasing it.now that's a "speed pump"


I used to have a Winchester model 97 that did that. We called it "slam fire"


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