# Nanofil. Nanofail?



## mstaaf (Jun 15, 2011)

Anyone using the new Nanofil line from berkley?

I bought some when it first came out and absolutely love the stuff.
I fish finesse a lot and this stuff has a great feel to me and it casts a mile.

Lately I've been breaking off at the hook way too much on the hookset, is 
anyone else having trouble or have any experience with this stuff?

Thanks.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

I'm so sick of nano buzzword anything. I was doing nanomaterials back in 92-giannelis (yeah I'm cool)...


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

mstaaf said:


> Anyone using the new Nanofil line from berkley?
> 
> I bought some when it first came out and absolutely love the stuff.
> I fish finesse a lot and this stuff has a great feel to me and it casts a mile.
> ...


There was already another thread here just a week or two ago that discussed this very topic. The breaking off thing seems to be a major downfall to that line,it just doesn't hold up well. I'm not gonna waste my money on it. I use braid on 75% of my stuff and can cast "A country mile" with it and the feel it has is fantastic. Then there's flouro which has the same qualities and is almost invisible underwater.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

What knot are you using? double palomar is recommended.


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## capt S (Sep 5, 2007)

Used nanofiloment this past week for four days and by the fourth day i noticed it was starting to get chewed up looking, so i striped some off. then the next day it looked the same, so i am not impressed by it at all. I will say when you first put it on it is super smooth casting but goes down hill quickly.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

mstaaf said:


> Anyone using the new Nanofil line from berkley?
> 
> I bought some when it first came out and absolutely love the stuff.
> I fish finesse a lot and this stuff has a great feel to me and it casts a mile.
> ...


The line strength is rated at the knot...the knot is the weak link....if you exert more than the rated force the line breaks.
Most braid breaks at a higher than rated force and using a double palomar usually increases knot strength...not with this line....BUT, I still like and use this line, I know not to push it!


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

JamesT said:


> I'm so sick of nano buzzword anything. I was doing nanomaterials back in 92-giannelis (yeah I'm cool)...


I thought this line was just dynaneem fibers bonded together (Like in strips) instead of braiding them????


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Intimidator said:


> The line strength is rated at the knot...the knot is the weak link....if you exert more than the rated force the line breaks.
> Most braid breaks at a higher than rated force and using a double palomar usually increases knot strength...not with this line....BUT, I still like and use this line, I know not to push it!


Might be a decent reaction bait line if used with a softer rod...but it sounds like you really need to dial things in properly for use with a contact bait


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Tokugawa said:


> Might be a decent reaction bait line if used with a softer rod...but it sounds like you really need to dial things in properly for use with a contact bait


See, I don't hookset...just apply tension and let the pole, drag, sharp hooks, and line do the work! When I first started using braid, I was pulling the hooks out of the fishes mouths...now I let the braid do what it is suppose to do!


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## young-gun21 (Mar 14, 2006)

Braid or not...I fish to set the hook! I decided to stick to the Sufix 832 for now.

Sent from my HTC Evo


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

Set the hook? With Bass the answer is yes,for Crappie then the answer is no. I do what Intimidator does,let the braid,rod and the other suff do the "work".I found that the first time I tried not set the hook on Bass with braid and my results sucked because I lost quite a few. I hardly ever lose a bass after I've hooked it with rods with braid.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

http://www.dyneema.com/en_US/public/dyneema/page/newsitems/Nanofil.htm

"Nanofil fishing lines17-Jun-11 
Hundreds of stronger-than-steel filaments of Dyneema® ensure the best-in-class performance of the new NanoFil fishing line which is being launched by Berkley, a brand of Pure Fishing.

The superb performance of the new line &#8211; which will be available at Berkley outlets around the world &#8211; is made possible by the patented Unified Filament Technology jointly developed by Berkley and DSM Dyneema. The line is a round and smooth &#8216;uni-filament&#8217; made by this new technology, consisting of hundreds of much smaller, molecularly-linked filaments of Dyneema® which are seamlessly combined. The result is the finest spinning reel line available, but with maximum strength.

Berkley® NanoFil&#8482; allows for effortless and accurate long casting with reduced drag in the air. And it simply slices through water. As a result of its sensitivity, bending ability and zero memory, it also provides a cleaner casting action, with fewer tangles and knots.

NanoFil line lends itself to a wide variety of techniques, but is most useful when anglers require an ultra small diameter line for greater casting yet also want the ultimate in sensitivity, in order to feel the subtlest of bites.

&#8220;Unified Filament Technology is a unique development which has been made possible by our partnership with DSM Dyneema,&#8221; said Jan van de Bovenkamp, Senior Product Manager at Pure Fishing. &#8220;Our cooperation has now allowed us to bring this new spinning reel line to the market.&#8221; 

&#8220;It is part of our ongoing strategy to work with key players in the various markets our customers serve, to create sustainable solutions that surpass what is already available,&#8221; added Noud Steffens, Marketing Manager at DSM Dyneema. &#8220;Like us, Berkley has a strong commitment to innovation and we are very pleased that our work together has resulted in the commercial launch of NanoFil.&#8221; 

Dyneema® is incredibly versatile, with virtually limitless applications, not least in being 15 times stronger than steel on a weight-for-weight basis. Its low specific gravity also makes it ideal for lightweight solutions and its other key attributes include impressive chemical and UV resistance and excellent durability."


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

JamesT said:


> http://www.dyneema.com/en_US/public/dyneema/page/newsitems/Nanofil.htm
> 
> "Nanofil fishing lines17-Jun-11
> Hundreds of stronger-than-steel filaments of Dyneema® ensure the best-in-class performance of the new NanoFil fishing line which is being launched by Berkley, a brand of Pure Fishing.
> ...


So, in other words...they just glued strands together instead of braiding it!LOL


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Sounds like it has a problem with abrasion resistance. When you change lures, be sure to run the last 3 feet or so of line bw your fingers. If you feel rough spots cut above these "nicks". In particular this seems to be a big problem at the knot. When you tie the knot, it puts the side exposed to rocks in tension. Because of this it will abrade even more quickly at the knot. Someone mentioned the double palomar. I would use this. A loop knot or rapala knot may work better for this line. Then again it may not. Simple large tension on the back of the loop where it meets the tie in may cause it to fail at even lower levels (can you tell I've got confidence in nanofail). Edit: based on people having failure on hooksets, I do not recommend the loop/rapala knot!!! Unless you want it to fail on an even weaker hookset...

I wonder how long this line will stay on the market before they come out with "version 2" or better yet change the name completely bc it was a complete (marketing) disaster lol. Or just discontinue it cause it sucks. Sometimes i wonder if they ever test stuff. Probably they just wanted to get the first "nano" line out there.

They are full of so much crap. According to their definition of nano, 200 lb monofilament is a nano fiber. So is a plastic rod with a 2 foot diameter. According to their webpage the diameter ranges from .001" for the 1 lb test to .008" for the 12 lb test. And their are "hundreds of nanofilaments" per "unified Filament fishing line". Even giving them the benefit of the doubt and using the .001", they are still orders of magnitude off. Each "nanofilament" is hundreds (really thousands) of nanometers in diameter which puts it in the micro range. I guess nanofil sounds better than microfil lol. What a joke and insult to the scientific community. 

Berkley is a marketing and advertising company first.

Not to mention what makes nanomaterials special is that they are engineered on a nano scale. Like intercalating polyethlene oxide into Na+ montmorillonite which essentially confines the polymer chain to 2-dimensions (10-20 angstroms, now were are talking true nano). This prevents it from "wiggling" and masks/hides the glass transition temperature thus giving better mechanical properties at temps above Tg (glass transition temperature) but below Tm (melting temperature) for applications like electronic packaging (computer chips, not blister packaging . 

"Hey lets put together some filaments that are thousands of nm thick and call ourselves nanoengineers" lol.

And the real reason why they recommend the double palomar is to overcome the poor abrasion resistance of this line. They probably got their "15% increased strength" as a result of abrasion testing lol. Otherwise why not use the double palomar always/for all lines? Heck if you ran tensile tests on fresh line, I bet it wouldn't even break at the knot......(so knot strength is most important for lines that have crappy abrasion resistance like nanofail, not to mention I believe they are using the term "knot stength" inappropriately as knot stength should be on fresh line, not used/abraded line).

What a joke. But it must be good they received multiple rewards at 2012 (2012?!?!? LOLOLOL) ICAST. "NanoFil was recognized by the voters as the top new product overall and best in line category for 2012 by the select ICAST attendees, which include active editorial journalists and retailers."

And based on the posts I've read here, I'm thinking it isn't only abrasion resistance that it sucks at. Sounds like its poor at handling (repeated) hooksets on non-abraded or very mildly abraded line. In other words, its ultimate tensile strength sucks (not exactly but that is probably the most appropriate term). 

And this may have much less to do with abrasion than I am making it out to. It may simply have a low ultimate tensile strength(not exactly as mentioned above but basically). It really depends on how abraded (if at all) the peoples lines were when it broke during the setting of the hook. 

And tying "the perfect knot" also seems very important with this line ( to lower hookset breakoffs but also help in general). Any extra unnecesary tension in the knot and it sounds like you may be screwing yourself. Tieing wet/underwater wouldn't hurt as it would minimize heating effects and may allow a more uniform knot to be tied. Be careful and don't pull that knot too hard.  Too loose and youll be screwing yourself too. You need to tie it juuuuust right with nanofail.

Thanks for allowing me to jog my memory. And if you'll excuse me I need to go buy some !GULP! so I can catch a fish tomorrow.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Someone please send this to the "engineers" at berkley. I want to see their response. Especially on the 2 foot diameter nanofiber.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Intimidator said:


> So, in other words...they just glued strands together instead of braiding it!LOL


Seems to me like a step backwards that theyd like you to believe is two steps forward.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

And while i speak about the side of the knot in tension as being a problem, the compressive side of the knot (the side touching the lure/hook tie) may also have problems. Properties change when you change their size scale (main reason why real nanomaterials so hot right now) Though probably not as severe as the side away from the tie in that is in tension. 

On a side note, nothing beats mother nature from a strictly tensile strength point of view ( not talking knots here, rather straight pulling/tensile strength...and probably knots too). When i was at cornell, professor grubb had spiders in the xray machine to try to understand the chemical rxn going on in silk spinning. He said they only rarely would cooperate and be still lol(rxn occurs in a fairly narrow time band/distance upon exiting the spider). Hence line names like spiderwire and iron silk fishing line.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/96/1.18.96/spider.html

Heres a more recent article and good read.
http://www.tx.ncsu.edu/jtatm/volume5issue1/Articles/Saravanan/Saravanan_Full_170_05.pdf


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Hey, don't get me wrong...I am still using the Nanofil due to it's extreme casting abilities. As long as you don't overpower the knot (I use a double Palomar) you are fine...for those than use light poundage mono or flouro this line is excellent, Flouro users may or may not like the idea that it floats, but I think abrasion levels are the same. 
Hopefully they continue working on this kind of line...it's what I've been waiting on, I think this is the braid of the future....but they weren't ready for the complete first step!


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

Intimidator said:


> Hey, don't get me wrong...I am still using the Nanofil due to it's extreme casting abilities. As long as you don't overpower the knot (I use a double Palomar) you are fine...for those than use light poundage mono or flouro this line is excellent, Flouro users may or may not like the idea that it floats, but I think abrasion levels are the same.
> Hopefully they continue working on this kind of line...it's what I've been waiting on, I think this is the braid of the future....but they weren't ready for the complete first step!


A good, hard FC is very abrasion resistant.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Good input on the abrasion resistance. I was trying to cover all bases w/o having used the stuff. Thats why it probably made no sense lol.

It would make sense that it casts a tad further than braid since all the strands are oriented in the same direction. Sounds best not to overpower the knot.

And yes the thing abrasion resistance corresponds most with is hardness. I realize you realize this, just sayin. Now im curious about the hardness of FC vs dyneema.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

JamesT said:


> Good input on the abrasion resistance. I was trying to cover all bases w/o having used the stuff. Thats why it probably made no sense lol.
> 
> It would make sense that it casts a tad further than braid since all the strands are oriented in the same direction. Sounds best not to overpower the knot.
> 
> And yes the thing abrasion resistance corresponds most with is hardness. I realize you realize this, just sayin. Now im curious about the hardness of FC vs dyneema.


That is the dilemma of Berkley in trying to create this line...take all of the Bad characteristics of each line and create one that does it all....I understand the undertaking is huge that's why I have given them so much leeway. 
FC that does not abraid is too hard to use in my fishing...too much memory and too brittle, and I hate a line that sinks while I'm bank fishing or bobber fishing. Mono is just too weak, not thin enough, and has memory. Braid doesn't cast as well....Now here comes a product that has no memory, floats, casts a mile, and is small and strong for it's size, and disappears in water...the downside is that it's abrasion resistance is just OK and it will break at the advertised poundage. For me, it is ALMOST perfect!


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Have you tried seaguar FC? It does not appear to be popular but I have heard very good things about it (including very low memory) from someone whose opinion i respect a lot. It is pricey though.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

JamesT said:


> Have you tried seaguar FC? It does not appear to be popular but I have heard very good things about it (including very low memory) from someone whose opinion i respect a lot. It is pricey though.


I tried Seaguar Tatsu, I just don't like FC....I have just figured out how to use braid for every kind of fishing, the only drawback for me is limited casting distance...Beside my extra M pole with Nanofil, I only use Daiwa Samurai (18lb-1.5lb dia on my UL, 20lb-2lb dia on my M, and 55lb-8lb dia on my MH),...until something better comes out or Nanofil II is released!


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

JamesT said:


> Have you tried seaguar FC? It does not appear to be popular but I have heard very good things about it (including very low memory) from someone whose opinion i respect a lot. It is pricey though.


seaguar is the best floro on the market. i stopped wasting my money on other stuff a few years back. the only things i dont use it for is dog walking with topwater and thats only because it sinks. i have very few problems with it and its extremely durable. if it breaks its because of something i did. over the past 2 years, ive broke one fish off on a hookset and no fish during a fight and i set the hook like a champ.

things happen, line gets nicked from time to time but since i started using seaguar, floro breakage has become a non-problem. the exact opposite of when i was using berkely vanish, (4 years ago) p-line (3 years ago).

you get what you pay for, 99% of the time. seaguar is the real deal


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Lotp you may know my friend steve smith. He fishes bass tourneys was on espn2 one time works maintenance at otterbein.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

You're about the 5th person that I've heard berkley vanish breaks quite easily from.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

i dont know him but i would prob recognize his face or his boat. 

people cut corners when it comes to fishing whether its baits, rods, reels, hooks, sinkers, electronics. in my opinion, fishing line is the only thing you can not afford to screw with.

that $25 dollars doesnt seem like much if you break off a giant bass during a tourny.


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## young-gun21 (Mar 14, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> i dont know him but i would prob recognize his face or his boat.
> 
> people cut corners when it comes to fishing whether its baits, rods, reels, hooks, sinkers, electronics. in my opinion, fishing line is the only thing you can not afford to screw with.
> 
> that $25 dollars doesnt seem like much if you break off a giant bass during a tourny.


I agree 100%. Technology has come along so far in most aspects that you don't need $300 rods or reels. I won't mess when it comes to line though.



Sent from my HTC Evo


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Especially with rods. That $35 lightning stick at wally world is probably comprable to a top of the line $300 rod from 25 years ago. Maybe better. And almost certainly lighter.

And lures? Look at all the klunksters fromback in the day. Was lucky craft even around 25 years ago lol?

Line is no exception.


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## "Big" mark the shark (Jan 21, 2010)

JamesT said:


> You're about the 5th person that I've heard berkley vanish breaks quite easily from.


Berkley vanish is a joke 15pd breaks at 8pb and not at the knot. I called Berkley they said it had to be old line so I said where can I get knew line there answer wally world.Will that's where I got the line in the first place.Tackletour had a review on it awhile ago and they seamed to have similar problems.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

I went fishing with "rod & reel" (dont think hes on here anymore) a few years ago and he was all pumped bc he had just spooled up with vanish. His line kept breaking the whole day.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

[quote="Big" mark the shark;1264321]Berkley vanish is a joke 15pd breaks at 8pb and not at the knot. I called Berkley they said it had to be old line so I said where can I get knew line there answer wally world.Will that's where I got the line in the first place.Tackletour had a review on it awhile ago and they seamed to have similar problems.[/quote]

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontestpg4.html

It would be nice if they explained what they actually did. 

"go buy some sandpaper so we can do abrasion testing"


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

JamesT said:


> http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontestpg4.html
> 
> It would be nice if they explained what they actually did.
> 
> "go buy some sandpaper so we can do abrasion testing"


If you are nice to me I might be able to find out exactly how that test was done.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

I would be curious. Not sure if ansi has fishing line abrasion tests. Semi-familiar with the tabor abrasion tester. More than anything im wondering if they they developed their own protocol(probably) bc when i look at that spread of numbers, it is all over the place and i wouldnt imagine there would so much spread, which makes me wonder how representative the tests are of real world conditions. Then again it also wouldnt surprise me too much if testing/ results were "legit" considering there is such a spread of quality of most all products in this world, i dunno, just babbling. I am curious, but not a big deal. Id still say the former. Materials science was my thing for a while. (impact testing on fishing line, maybe they know something i dont....lol but a charpy impact test sure would be hard to perform on line 

I used to read tt a fair amount ( mostly enthusiast tackle cranks and the custom wood cranks, some of those guys . Rarely read much anymore but do see they now have lure autopsy reports. Cal, zander, and gang im sure are laughing all the way to the bank......with their hotties lol. They totally fit the nocal mold.....

I take that back, "bay area" mold. Unless theyre friends with this guy (insert rasta hippie dude here, darn ipad


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## Tokugawa (Apr 29, 2008)

JamesT said:


> I would be curious. Not sure if ansi has fishing line abrasion tests. Semi-familiar with the tabor abrasion tester. More than anything im wondering if they they developed their own protocol(probably) bc when i look at that spread of numbers, it is all over the place and i wouldnt imagine there would so much spread, which makes me wonder how representative the tests are of real world conditions. Then again it also wouldnt surprise me too much if testing/ results were "legit" considering there is such a spread of quality of most all products in this world, i dunno, just babbling. I am curious, but not a big deal. Id still say the former. Materials science was my thing for a while. (impact testing on fishing line, maybe they know something i dont....lol but a charpy impact test sure would be hard to perform on line
> 
> I used to read tt a fair amount ( mostly enthusiast tackle cranks and the custom wood cranks, some of those guys . Rarely read much anymore but do see they now have lure autopsy reports. Cal, zander, and gang im sure are laughing all the way to the bank......with their hotties lol. They totally fit the nocal mold.....
> 
> I take that back, "bay area" mold. Unless theyre friends with this guy (insert rasta hippie dude here, darn ipad


Let me see what I can do. I'm thinking they did not use a standardized ANSI/ASTM/SAE test method. I was pretty hard on their methodology at first too, but then I realized they are not professional geeks.

Someone should design a "zebra mussel" test for line. 

I'm not sure they make a pile of cash from it. If you keep an eye on the board sponsors, you'll notice they change often...especially the ones that work in Yen. With the dollar drop, those guys have gone away for the most part. Companies like Megabass and Evergreen don't send a sample in for review either. You pay to play.

With the all costs (admin, travel, gear to review, rental space, model fees...), it probably leaves as fast as it enters...or close to it. You can write the toys off as business expense tho...that's probably the best part.


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Probably arent making as much as i think. I recently googled ohiogamefishing and came across a website that said it was worth only like 13k or something. I thought that was on the low side. I also thought tt was their only gig but now that i think about it lol. Cant barely get a rental for 1000 in the bay area, more like 1200. Also figured they got megabass and other high end lures for free and didnt have to pay to play. I would like that gig but the manufacturers would hate me. Except for lucky craft, megabass and a few others like some bargain finds as strike king wild shiner. Then again only people like us have no prob throwing down $20+ on a bait lol


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## bassmastermjb (Apr 8, 2004)

FYI, I was talking to my wholesale sales rep the other day regarding the Nanofil line. He told me the Berkley rep repeatedly mentioned at their seminar this line is only intended for spinning reels and not baitcasters. I just want to throw that out to everyone..............Mark


Mark's Live Bait-Tackle And Ammo
7271 ST RT 14
Ravenna,Ohio 44266
330-296-3474 Shop
330-296-3474 Cell


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