# *Confluence Warning* / Downtown Report



## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

So me and OntheFly decided to check out the downtown area of the Scioto a couple days ago. Good news is that a TON of of the muck/sediment that has been removed, I mean look at the pic.

That said there is a giant Delta that extends in sort of a Triangle directly infront of the Restaurant @ the Confluence. IT IS NASTY! I took two steps off of stable ground and found myself in 3' of muck. The more I tried to wiggle the deeper I went (the consistency was more like that of freshly-poured concrete). Ended up literally waist deep in muck (I probed some areas with a stick and got close to 5' .) At any rate I had to get Axel to pull me out (with both hands) as I was completely immobilized. *Had I been alone I wouldn't have gotten out; I would have had to scream until someone (hopefully) noticed me.*

The only spot we found this sort of nasty muck was right infront of the confluence/restaurant, other then there are some patchy spots, but they're maybe a foot deep (max).

As for fishing, snagged a sucker, thats it. River bite has been dead, we need some warmer temps and more importantly a day or so of warm rain in order to get things started.

Pic of the Olentangy right at the confluence, notice how un-embedded (Muck-free) those rock bars are :B


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

@acklac:

Glad you had assistance to get out of the mire. It's a scary feeling being stuck in mud that deep.

Your pic of the olentangy looks amazing! I'm guessing that's Spring st? 

Seems like the boat ramp there would be pretty useless though.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

While I agree the river down there is definitely "Urban" (read: in rough shape) it looks a TON better then in the days immediately after the Main St. Dam came down. I mean the difference is night-and-day. It should only get better and better from here on out.

As for the rebar/metal/concrete we came upon it too, nasty crap. I wonder if Delaware would consider bascially shutting down the Olentangy for a day so we can go cut/clean all the crap out of there? I took my battery operated saw-zall/Grinder down below Oshay a couple of years back and cut a whole bunch of metal crap out (when the water was low). Those concrete/rebar snags are the absolute worst.


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

acklac7 said:


> I wonder if Delaware would consider bascially shutting down the Olentangy for a day so we can go cut/clean all the crap out of there?


Do groups like this have any influence for stuff like the above?


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## Bob4246 (Dec 30, 2004)

FOSR might be able to help. He has lots of contacts.

Sent from my XT1030 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

Does seem like a tall order though. Is it usace in charge of the dams?


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

I bet the water will be plenty low this summer to get a lot of the crap out if battery rotary/saws are used (the Acklac technique...I like it).

Glad you're OK AJ.

I bet the water willow goes crazy on those huge rocky sandbars. Cannot wait to get out there in May! Those rocky/nasty estuary flats downtown might just be dynamite for fishing. Tons of ambush points for predators. The shad and minnows in there could be off the chain.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Mushijobah said:


> I bet the water willow goes crazy on those huge rocky sandbars. Cannot wait to get out there in May! Those rocky/nasty estuary flats downtown might just be dynamite for fishing. Tons of ambush points for predators. The shad and minnows in there could be off the chain.


Yup, come spring we should start to see vegitation pop up everywhere down there, Would be cool to plant some Willow trees right there at the Confluence delta.

Also there are (were) insane amounts of Shad down around Downtown, be interesting to see what all we find in that stretch over the Summer.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

freshwater_newb said:


> Do groups like this have any influence for stuff like the above?





Bob4246 said:


> FOSR might be able to help. He has lots of contacts.


I have a hunch that FOSR/FLOW wouldn't be able to help due to liability issues
related to the use of power cutting tools. (I think FOSR has mentioned something along those lines in years past). Biggest problem would be getting the water low enough such that we could ideally "snip" the metal/rebar where it meets with the river bed. Although Mushi is correct, come super low flow (mainly in late sumer) we should be able to snip it pretty close to the bottom. Honestly it doesn't take that long to cut through rebar with a beefy battery powered sawzall, probably could get it all knocked out within in a day, maybe less.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

"The PL-S20 is a saltwater resistant, nickel-plated cutter for use in underwater environments. Its recommended uses include: marine nautical cutting, emergency cutting of stainless steel wire rope rigging and hardware, underwater rebar and cable cutting, and yacht mast rod cutting up to 1/2&#8221;."

http://www.huskietools.com/products/pl-s20-handheld-hydraulic-cutter-with-nickel-plating/


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Mushijobah said:


> "The PL-S20 is a saltwater resistant, nickel-plated cutter for use in underwater environments. Its recommended uses include: marine nautical cutting, emergency cutting of stainless steel wire rope rigging and hardware, underwater rebar and cable cutting, and yacht mast rod cutting up to 1/2."
> 
> http://www.huskietools.com/products/pl-s20-handheld-hydraulic-cutter-with-nickel-plating/


How Much???


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

I'd love to plant willow stakes out there but the beavers are already killing 8-inch oaks in North Bank Park, so a willow stake planting would be a salad bar. Too bad because otherwise the situation would be perfect.

That lowest stretch of the Olentangy looks very promising. It has a lot of new drop now without the dam, and it's a pretty running stream where I used to paddle over shallow mud. It looks like much of the mud has flushed out, and now the stones are re-arranging in the new currents.

If the channel changes as it shoots under those bridges, it might change how the currents shape that new mud flat in front of the restaurant.

I would guess that's bridge demolition rubble in the river. Must have been out of sight, out of mind when the water was higher.

I have been trying to find out exactly where the upstream boundary of city park land lies above North Bank Park. According to the parks planner, the city owns all of the land from NBP to the confluence, including the land that the restaurant sits on. That also includes all of the bank at least up to the city boat ramp.

In all the dam removal planning, they've kept that ramp as a way to access the river downtown, at least for light watercraft. If that dangerous rubble lies between the ramp and downtown, we might make a case for it presenting a significant hazard (which it does) and maybe they can set aside some $$ to get an excavator with a demolition grapple down there.

I could at least run the idea past the planner and see what she says.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

acklac7 said:


> How Much???


Looks like one could be had for the low low price of....

$1300. Well thats what they start out at anyhow.

http://www.grainger.com/product/HUSKIE-TOOLS-Bar-and-Wire-Cutter-WP27003/_/N-92d?s_pp=false


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## seang22 (Mar 3, 2014)

It's the water gna rise back up?


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

FOSR said:


> I'd love to plant willow stakes out there but the beavers are already killing 8-inch oaks in North Bank Park, so a willow stake planting would be a salad bar. Too bad because otherwise the situation would be perfect.
> 
> That lowest stretch of the Olentangy looks very promising. It has a lot of new drop now without the dam, and it's a pretty running stream where I used to paddle over shallow mud. It looks like much of the mud has flushed out, and now the stones are re-arranging in the new currents.
> 
> ...


From what I could tell there is the remnants of an old lowhead right there @ the Boat ramp on the Olentangy, and man, there is some nasty crap right around there. There's like I-beams sticking straight up out of the water and stuff,along with all the Nasty, broken chunks of the old lowhead (and the exposed rebar that was once contained within it)

As near as I can tell the construction/rehab work really REALLY needs to be extended up to the Confluence. I mean north of the Confluence honestly doesn't look too bad (on both the Scioto/Olentangy), however the general confluence area definitely could use a helping hand (to put it mildly).

Also, dude, Weeping Willow trees on either side of that semi-delta area (Right infront of the Restaurant) would look dead-sexy. There has to be someway to deter the beavers?


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## freshwater_newb (May 16, 2013)

acklac7 said:


> There has to be someway to deter the beavers?


chicken wire? trappers?


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

At North Bank Park, they've caged the remaining intact oaks, using wire fencing. Those already damaged are not protected and they're at least ringbarked if not deeply chiseled - but I didn't see any actually felled.

What kind of a set of teeth does it take to knock out thumb-sized chips of live oak?

Well it's 7:00 and the city workers have started their week, so I'll go bounce this off the parks planner.


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## Putty (Jul 22, 2013)

I caught a Saug in a spot you have pictured a couple weeks ago.


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## nyall86 (Jul 31, 2013)

Putty said:


> I caught a Saug in a spot you have pictured a couple weeks ago.


WAY to give AWAY the spot.. jezz Charles


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## Putty (Jul 22, 2013)

nyall86 said:


> WAY to give AWAY the spot.. jezz Charles


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## turtleclub (Mar 31, 2014)

Its muddy, but I been catchin. Was out there in the snow and rain the other night caught 4 cats..would have been more bud we could only cast out in one spot with two poles trees and current was kind of messin us up


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## sbreech (Jun 6, 2010)

Here are some pics from today: (downtown)


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## turtleclub (Mar 31, 2014)

Oh nvm, this is downtown. yeah I haven't been there yet. Just moved up here and only fishing hole I have found is the scioto near frank road


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

streamstalker said:


> Well, Mushi, there go your plans to fish that "estuary" cover in my last picture. They already are narrowing that channel there. I'm guessing that also means there are no plans to deepen the channel, as they would have had to divert the water to the Vets Memorial side to dig out the Front street side of the river. I believe that will raise the water level up around the Confluence like I talked about earlier.


One thing you need to take into account (and im just now figuring this out) is during low water summer periods the City takes the entire flow from the "West Fork" of the Scioto for water-treatment purposes (just north of the Confluence).

So during periods of low flow (basically anything under 100fps on the Oshay guage) there is 0 flow being contributed from the Scioto, leaving the paltry summer flow of the Olentangy (like 25fps) as the only water flowing through downtown. Not sure if they intend to change this pattern or not, but as it stands now come summer the Scioto from the Water Plant lowhead down to the Confluence basically will dry up, or be reduced to a few stagnant pools. This has always been the case, however this year it's going to be much more pronounced.

At any rate what im getting at is come low-flow the Scioto through downtown is only going to be fed by the extremely weak flow of the Olentangy (25fps). That is next to NOTHING. Going to be extremely shallow down there this year once the water comes down, and it's going to be cake to deepen/reconstruct alternate channels.

Question is, what are the long-term plans? are they going to release more water from Oshay such that the Scioto isn't cut off @ the Dublin Rd. Lowhead? Are they just going to leave the measly Olentangy as the only flow for the Dowtown strech once the water comes down?

FOSR do you have ANY idea what the final plans of the project are? Is the City including anyone else in the planning? Does the Contruction Company/City realize that as it stands now there is basically going to be no water flowing through there come mid-summer?


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## seang22 (Mar 3, 2014)

What was the purpose of this?


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

acklac7 said:


> One thing you need to take into account (and im just now figuring this out) is during low water summer periods the City takes the entire flow from the "West Fork" of the Scioto for water-treatment purposes (just north of the Confluence).
> 
> So during periods of low flow (basically anything under 100fps on the Oshay guage) there is 0 flow being contributed from the Scioto, leaving the paltry summer flow of the Olentangy (like 25fps) as the only water flowing through downtown. Not sure if they intend to change this pattern or not, but as it stands now come summer the Scioto from the Water Plant lowhead down to the Confluence basically will dry up, or be reduced to a few stagnant pools. This has always been the case, however this year it's going to be much more pronounced.
> 
> ...


With the new upground reservoir functional, I'm going to guess that they will be less stingy with the water. If they don't already know, which I'm assuming they do (some smart, natural resources people working at that plant), they will compensate and ensure there is flow. Also, they may be required to by law. Navigability must be ensured on a stream like the Scioto. They could get away with it when the downtown pool was present.



seang22 said:


> What was the purpose of this?


Water quality.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

seang22 said:


> What was the purpose of this?



From http://www.sciotogreenways.com/faqs.php



> The purpose of the Scioto Greenways project is multifold. Firstly, removing the Main Street Dam will help return the Scioto River to its natural state, improving ecological systems and river habitat. Secondly, the creation of 33-acres of new greenspace will provide new recreation options to Downtown residents and visitors, alike. Lastly, improving the water quality of the Scioto River and creating new greenspace Downtown will allow for leveraging of existing investments along the Riverfront, further catalyzing development in and around Downtown Columbus.


One thing that is starting to concern me about the project is the lack of attention/information in regards to fish/fishing in general.

If you search www.sciotogreenways.com for "fishing" (via Google) you come up with zero reasults. If you search for "fish" you come up with one match, one. 

Even under the proposed "benefits" you find no mention, just this vague statement


> Provide a greater opportunity for the public to experience and interact with the river in its more natural state


At the end of the day im starting to wonder if this project is more and more about creating a attractive parkland / leisure space Downtown, then turning the River into a thriving ecosystem.

Does anyone know if Biologists are going to take part in the reconstruction of the river itself? Is a key goal of the project to once again restore that section of the Scioto to a productive fishery? So far I've read/seen nothing to indicate that fishing is of any importance, at least from a construction standpoint. All I've read are vague statements about "returning the river to a more natural state" via the dam removal.

Don't get me wrong, I think this project is one of the coolest things i've ever seen, and I salute the City for making it happen in seemingly no time flat. That said I would feel more comfortable if I could find some info about what ecological changes the city is going to make in order to benefit the river itself. As many of us know there is some incredible fishing in the Scioto/Olentangy Rivers; I think it would be a shame if the city didn't do everything it could to not only promote that fact, but capitalize on it.


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## Mushijobah (May 4, 2004)

I can assure you that creating a productive fishery isn't on the top of anyone's list... other than ours! We basically get a dam removal, some river narrowing modifications, maybe some faux riffles before the natural ones re-establish. It's not going to be perfect. It's for downtown's image and it's a sort of "community service" to get the EPA off the City's back for all the Combined/Sanitary Overflows. Either way, whatever we get, I know there will be some nice and deep pockets in the developing river channel. They will hold fish and I will catch them 

The project is being managed by the Columbus Downtown Development Corporation. You can contact them for specific questions at the link below. Don't expect a direct answer, as it's probably a PR person answering questions. A better idea would be to ask to speak with a project planner or manager. Someone that has the details.
http://www.sciotogreenways.com/contact.php

Also, read this:
http://www.epa.ohio.gov/Portals/29/LER/WR391656-0001_Main Street Dam Removal_LER FNSI Pkg.pdf

And this in regards to the feasibility study:
http://issuu.com/mksk/docs/main_street_dam_summary_report


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

Here's a reply from the parks planner re: dangerous rubble:



> Hi Alex: you are correct that it is dangerous and shallow. Our guys checked it out yesterday and will post warning signs in the area. Obviously power boats can no longer use the ramp and we will close it, but we will not restrict canoes and kayaks. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.


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