# I just don't get it



## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

Where does the mentality of keep everything you catch come from? Just because its legal, it doesn't make it sustainable. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking SOME fish for food, but when I see guys filling their bucket with everything that bites, it makes me sick. Last week I fish a very small pond four separate times and saw the same guy filling his bucket with gills and red ears every time I was there. He didn't throw one fish back either time. How long does he really think he'll be able to do this before the fishing really sucks!


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## 419deerhunter (Mar 23, 2011)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Where does the mentality of keep everything you catch come from? Just because its legal, it doesn't make it sustainable. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking SOME fish for food, but when I see guys filling their bucket with everything that bites, it makes me sick. Last week I fish a very small pond four separate times and saw the same guy filling his bucket with gills and red ears every time I was there. He didn't throw one fish back either time. How long does he really think he'll be able to do this before the fishing really sucks!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


They dont care because when fishing stops being good there they will just move along to another pond....


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## injun laker45 (Jun 28, 2011)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Where does the mentality of keep everything you catch come from? Just because its legal, it doesn't make it sustainable. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking SOME fish for food, but when I see guys filling their bucket with everything that bites, it makes me sick. Last week I fish a very small pond four separate times and saw the same guy filling his bucket with gills and red ears every time I was there. He didn't throw one fish back either time. How long does he really think he'll be able to do this before the fishing really sucks!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Maybe he's stocking another pond???


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## big spurs 111 (Jun 4, 2013)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Where does the mentality of keep everything you catch come from? Just because its legal, it doesn't make it sustainable. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking SOME fish for food, but when I see guys filling their bucket with everything that bites, it makes me sick. Last week I fish a very small pond four separate times and saw the same guy filling his bucket with gills and red ears every time I was there. He didn't throw one fish back either time. How long does he really think he'll be able to do this before the fishing really sucks!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


(it was not me )

Did you ever think that the guy was maybe trying to feed him self or his family , helping a friend ,trying to stock up on fish . maybe he only has a week or 2 to fish all year. don't judge others till you know the facts about his life .


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## lacdown (Apr 25, 2007)

Some people are just raised differently and think it's normal to eat everything you catch. I'm Asian and know many with this mentality regardless of age or race. Our culture is changing.... if we had sustainable resources at the forefront throughout our history then imagine how plentiful and large the fish would be. The sushi craze is depleting tuna but that's not slowing down yet either.

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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

I can't comment about the small pond you are talking about so you could be right or wrong. I fish a public lake and last three weeks I've taken over 100 gills to fillet. They are the best eating fish as far as I'm concerned and the wife and I can eat a buch in one meal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a lot of fish for eating and in my case I vacuum pack separate packages for the later use. I have crappie , White bass and gills in my deep freeze, all vacuum packed and we will eat off them all year round, if I have some left as the seasons change I have family and friends that don't fish that I share with. I do know some people that will keep fish just because the have caught a bunch and I guess they want to brag a little, although I don't agree with those that do this it's hard to tell someone not to keep legal fish when they want to. Oh I forgot I think I still have a package or two of eyes also from the winter catch at the spill way.


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

Like I said, I can understand taking some home for food. The pond I speak of though, is a little more than a puddle and there aren't that many good sized gills to be taken.


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## mck1975 (Jun 18, 2009)

Same mentality of catching nice eaters and throwing them back. The fisherman's personal choice. If you caught the trophy of your favorite game fish would you throw him back? Same choice again!


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Like I said, I can understand taking some home for food. The pond I speak of though, is a little more than a puddle and there aren't that many good sized gills to be taken.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Maybe he's doing that pond a favor. Small ponds that get over populated with smaller fish need to have fish removed. In 2 years, the ones he doesn't keep may very well be pushing double digits in length....

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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

I've got a funny story that this thread reminded me of. A few years ago a friend took me to a pond not to far from where we live but it was secluded and I didn't know about it. Anyway he got us permission to fish it and one day we went out thinking it had gills or maybe small bass, and after fishing for half an hr. with no bites I finally get a real nice bass on a spinner bait. It weighed just over 4 lb. and my friend that got us permission would just not let me turn it loose. He wanted this fish so bad to take home and eat I just had to give it to him. I told him though any more caught and they go back in the water. Well we fished for another hr and nothing. We went back to this pond and fished it several more times and nothing. One day about a month later we met another young fellow and he asked us if we had done any good and of course we said no. He proceeded to tell us that about two months earlier ha had put a 4 lb largemouth in the pond , that he thought it was the only one in there except for some small gills. The pond was very shallow and he doubted that the bass was still alive. We left and I did not have the heart to tell him we took the bass. Later I told my friend that I had never in my life been known to fish a pond dry by catching just one fish.


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## City fisher (Jul 12, 2012)

mck1975 said:


> Same mentality of catching nice eaters and throwing them back. The fisherman's personal choice. If you caught the trophy of your favorite game fish would you throw him back? Same choice again!


I agree with the above statement. It all comes down to personal choice. I am a C&R fisherman, thats my preference when I fish. My wife and her family are complete opposite of me. They keep all fish that meet the proper regulations for keeping them. It all comes down to the fisher persons personal beliefs and choices when it comes to this. Besides, if I want to eat some fish the local Acme usually has some pretty decent fish that I can go and grab from the butcher.


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## glasseyes (Jan 28, 2012)

I have a good friend that lives across the street that is strictly C&R but his wife loves to eat fish. This guy is a LM fisherman and has a real nice bass boat and he has fished a lot of tournys over the years. I would love to own the gear he has, or have the money he has invested in it. Anyway his wife will give me a big hug every time I walk across the street with a nice plate of fried up fish for her, and no her husband does not like or eat fish. GO FIGURE


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## big spurs 111 (Jun 4, 2013)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Like I said, I can understand taking some home for food. The pond I speak of though, is a little more than a puddle and there aren't that many good sized gills to be taken.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


did you know gills can spawn 2 or 3 times a year ,that puts a hurt on a small pond anyway .


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## imalt (Apr 17, 2008)

I have mixed feelings on the bucket fisherman. I guess it depends on how many bucket fisherman fish any certain pond. Taking some fish out of a pond isn't a bad thing because it allows the other fish to grow. The problem is if there are 10 bucket fisherman fishing a pond and they each take home 30 bluegill or a couple bass each it can wipe out a pond in a hurry. But if you are like me and stuck fishing public ponds it is just one of those things you have to deal with. If I ever get my own pond one day then I can manage it how I want. You can " accidentally" kick over their bucket also if you want.


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## FOSR (Apr 16, 2008)

> depleting tuna


Google that.


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## IGbullshark (Aug 10, 2012)

i never keep anything. the way i look at it is this, if everyone kept what they caught then eventually nobody would catch anything.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

IGbullshark said:


> i never keep anything. the way i look at it is this, if everyone kept what they caught then eventually nobody would catch anything.


Not true. From the 1930's thru about the mid 70's, most people didn't even realize you could release a fish... they caught dinner plain and simple. Bass tournaments used to weigh in 16 fish limits and throw the dead carcasses in and old john boat for whoever wanted to take them home. And yet the largemouth is still the most widespread and populous freshwater gamefish in the country.... and they didn't care about no spawn either...

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## IGbullshark (Aug 10, 2012)

Bad Bub said:


> Not true. From the 1930's thru about the mid 70's, most people didn't even realize you could release a fish... they caught dinner plain and simple. Bass tournaments used to weigh in 16 fish limits and throw the dead carcasses in and old john boat for whoever wanted to take them home. And yet the largemouth is still the most widespread and populous freshwater gamefish in the country.... and they didn't care about no spawn either...
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


i highly doubt that a large majority kept everything that they caught. as someone alluded to before, asian counties are a good example. they eat most of what they catch and now they are starting to see many of their river species decimated.


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## Bass_Hawg (Apr 12, 2004)

$19.00 for all you can eat at a restraint and I'm staying all day. $19.00 for a fish license, will fish all year to catch as many as you can to feed who ever.

Yea it sucks but it is what it is. Maybe go talk to him and give him an edjemicatiaion about catch and release!


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

Bad Bub said:


> Not true. From the 1930's thru about the mid 70's, most people didn't even realize you could release a fish... they caught dinner plain and simple. Bass tournaments used to weigh in 16 fish limits and throw the dead carcasses in and old john boat for whoever wanted to take them home. And yet the largemouth is still the most widespread and populous freshwater gamefish in the country.... and they didn't care about no spawn either...
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Yeah, from the 30's to the 60's people did keep everything they caught. They also, damn near, fished out the Great Lakes. The point is, being legal doesn't make it sustainable and people need to take future generations into consideration. And again I have no issues with taking fish for food, I've got my fair share in the freezer. Keeping everything that bites is where I have an issue. I'm just sayings take what you can eat, but be selective when doing so.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Yeah, from the 30's to the 60's people did keep everything they caught. They also, damn near, fished out the Great Lakes. The point is, being legal doesn't make it sustainable and people need to take future generations into consideration. And again I have no issues with taking fish for food, I've got my fair share in the freezer. Keeping everything that bites is where I have an issue. I'm just sayings take what you can eat, but be selective when doing so.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Pollution and human development has killed more fish than people keeping fish... the great lakes especially, people didn't fish out the prior populations, they killed the fish with free flowing sewers and industrial waste. To compare a guy keeping a bucket full of bluegills to the Asian commercial fishing market is really stretching it a bit...

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## IGbullshark (Aug 10, 2012)

i wasent referring to the Asian commercial fishing (thats a different monster altogether). im taking about the regular average joes fishing the rivers in Asia.


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## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

Bad Bub said:


> Pollution and human development has killed more fish than people keeping fish... the great lakes especially, people didn't fish out the prior populations, they killed the fish with free flowing sewers and industrial waste. To compare a guy keeping a bucket full of bluegills to the Asian commercial fishing market is really stretching it a bit...


X2. kinda like the thread earlier about Buffalo extinction.


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

Bad Bub said:


> Pollution and human development has killed more fish than people keeping fish... the great lakes especially, people didn't fish out the prior populations, they killed the fish with free flowing sewers and industrial waste. To compare a guy keeping a bucket full of bluegills to the Asian commercial fishing market is really stretching it a bit...
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Pollution didn't help at all, but our own commercial fishing practices and a keep everything that bites attitude, was also a big part of the problem. Together those three factors emptied our lakes.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Pollution didn't help at all, but our own commercial fishing practices and a keep everything that bites attitude, was also a big part of the problem. Together those three factors emptied our lakes.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


All of the average fisherman keeping everything that bites is absolutely miniscule compared to the other 2 factors...

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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

I'd bet that 99 out of 100 people here talking about keeper sized fish are filleting them. Something to keep in mind is that not everyone filets their fish. Sometimes the smaller ones are preferred for various reasons.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

shwookie said:


> I'd bet that 99 out of 100 people here talking about keeper sized fish are filleting them. Something to keep in mind is that not everyone filets their fish. Sometimes the smaller ones are preferred for various reasons.


Yes, they are called Pan Fish for a reason.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

Bad Bub said:


> Not true. From the 1930's thru about the mid 70's, most people didn't even realize you could release a fish... they caught dinner plain and simple. Bass tournaments used to weigh in 16 fish limits and throw the dead carcasses in and old john boat for whoever wanted to take them home. And yet the largemouth is still the most widespread and populous freshwater gamefish in the country.... and they didn't care about no spawn either...
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


It's true about tournaments however they changed the rules long ago because they knew it wasn't sustainable and counter productive in the long run for the new sport


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

I look at the perspective of how many years of fish u remove. Example would be taking home six 20" or better walleye from lake erie. It took those 6 fish 4 years each to get that big. Thats 24 years of growth gone in one day.

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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

I sure wish more people would keep sheepshead. We kept track last Thursday off of Niagara. In seven hours...

34 walleye
96 sheepshead
8 white bass


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## big spurs 111 (Jun 4, 2013)

BFG said:


> I sure wish more people would keep sheepshead. We kept track last Thursday off of Niagara. In seven hours...
> 
> 34 walleye
> 96 sheepshead
> 8 white bass


dang Clark you should start a sheep farm lol .


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

lordofthepunks said:


> It's true about tournaments however they changed the rules long ago because they knew it wasn't sustainable and counter productive in the long run for the new sport


Ray Scott changed the rules for image and promotional reasons. He was the ultimate salesman. Not saying he didn't care about the fisheries, but it wasn't his #1 driving force.

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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bad Bub said:


> Ray Scott changed the rules for image and promotional reasons. He was the ultimate salesman. Not saying he didn't care about the fisheries, but it wasn't his #1 driving force.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Yeah, people didn't start talking about sustainability until pretty recently I'd imagine.


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## lordofthepunks (Feb 24, 2009)

sustainability has been a topic for a long time... can anyone imagine how hard it would be to catch a limit at places like alum creek or oshay if the 1/2/3 tournaments there weekly were killing every fish they caught for the past 2 decades?

they knew it wasn't going to work long term if they didn't establish catch and release parameters. there wouldn't be any bass left to catch of tournament anglers kept their catch... and that is not an exaggeration...


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

is that pond stocked every year? Not sure if thats been covered here..but a lot os smaller ponds are stocked yearly..it might not even make a difference if he was keeping everything he caught


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

9Left said:


> is that pond stocked every year? Not sure if thats been covered here..but a lot os smaller ponds are stocked yearly..it might not even make a difference if he was keeping everything he caught


Honestly, not sure. I haven't caught any fish with clipped fins. Or do they only do that with trout?


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Honestly, not sure. I haven't caught any fish with clipped fins. Or do they only do that with trout?
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


i think thats with trout...but sometimes , i do agree with ya man..the other day i was at the lake just messin around near the dock and ran into a couple guys that had a 5 gallon bucket FULL of dink crappies...gad i hate to see that! But its their choice..or right..or whatever so i just dont say anything


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## PARK92 (Apr 21, 2012)

I catch and eat in most cases. If its good sized or legal size then I'm taking it home. Our ODNR manages these kinds of things so that we don't have to. Everytime I'm on here someone is arguing about eating/ keeping fish.


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## shwookie (Jun 15, 2007)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> Yes, they are called Pan Fish for a reason.


Except I am not simply referring to "panfish". I'm referring to all fish. Sometimes the smaller ones are easier to cook and serve vs. a "keeper" sized fish.


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## Nubes (Dec 3, 2012)

Jmsteele187 said:


> Where does the mentality of keep everything you catch come from? Just because its legal, it doesn't make it sustainable. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking SOME fish for food, but when I see guys filling their bucket with everything that bites, it makes me sick. Last week I fish a very small pond four separate times and saw the same guy filling his bucket with gills and red ears every time I was there. He didn't throw one fish back either time. How long does he really think he'll be able to do this before the fishing really sucks!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire





I hear ya! Its called the ignorant red neck mentality. I had some moron at Sharon Woods try to explain to me that I need my yak registered(Im a KY resident and we don't register our yaks) because I was fishing in OH as he was trying to "steal" a stringer of crappie in a catch and release lake. He about ate my 3lb anchor! LOL


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## ostbucks98 (Apr 14, 2004)

You sure you dont need to register your yak to be on ohio water.

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## Nubes (Dec 3, 2012)

ostbucks98 said:


> You sure you dont need to register your yak to be on ohio water.
> 
> Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Ohub Campfire mobile app



110% sure. I'd have to leave my yak on an OH waterway for like 3mos or something like that before I have to register it. I always felt for you guys, its nothing more than a harassment law which lets them interrogate anyone they want with no probable cause


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## Flathead76 (May 2, 2010)

You can only control what you take and kill or release. It wont do you or anybody else any good pissing and moaning about what is legal and out of your hands. Write the DNR and make your voice heard there. Me personally I think that they should make the spring walleye fishing a 2 fish limit til may. Would also close down the river completely til may for walleyes. This will never happen though because the state makes too much money writing tickets and licence money.


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## geoffoquinn (Oct 2, 2011)

Thinning out ponds from time to time also prevents stunting leaving enough room for fish to get big. People who have catch and release farm ponds sometimes are doing themselves a huge disservice by not allowing any being taken.


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## PARK92 (Apr 21, 2012)

Geoffoquin is definitely right. I have a po d down the road I have permission to fish, but its catch and release only. I stopped going there because all I'd catch was stunted fish. That's not fun. I talked to the owner numerous times about taking some fish out of it and he just did not want to. I just said oh well ha e fun with your po d with a million 3-5 inch bluegills. Its a shame too because it could be managed right and be a trophy pond.


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

geoffoquinn said:


> Thinning out ponds from time to time also prevents stunting leaving enough room for fish to get big. People who have catch and release farm ponds sometimes are doing themselves a huge disservice by not allowing any being taken.


I understand this, but showing up everyday and filling a bucket isn't exactly selective harvest.


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Jmsteele187 said:


> I understand this, but showing up everyday and filling a bucket isn't exactly selective harvest.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


If there are that many small, stunted fish, it may require that kind of harvest for a while...

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## dmills4124 (Apr 9, 2008)

We had a family friend who had a farm down near New Philly with a couple of ponds and lots of deer. She was pretty much blind with a heart of gold. If someone asked her permission to hunt or fish on her land she almost always said yes. 
Her Amish neighbors ask her permission to hunt and fish her land and she gave them her written permission. A couple of weeks later one of her other neighbors asked her if she was hurting for money or if she was going to sell her property. She said no and was told that they had seen people with nets dragging her ponds and cleaning out all the fish and also they saw a bunch of people walking thru her forest land hearding deer (or anything else that moved)to waiting hunters. After that happened she refused everyone who asked for permission to do anything on her land. I have to say I cant really blame her. My question is...who can you trust? Sad story for sure but true.
JMTCW
later
donm


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## FishNerd (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm mostly catch-and-release myself, especially out of the Ohio River. Occasionally I'll take some fish out of a farm pond (I have a friend who has a pond crammed full of catfish and I never refuse an offer to come "help him clean it out a bit"). I think it's personal preference and there's probably enough guys that C&R to offset the ones that don't. However, I think that whether you release or keep, you should obey the DNR laws and use some common sense. Fish are a sustainable resource IF you're smart about it and be considerate of the fish and other fishermen and understand the body of water you're fishing. There's a lot of misinformation and personal bias when it comes to fishing, sadly. 
One major pet peeve of mine - the idea of a "trash fish". I can understand clearing stunted bluegill or bullheads out of a farm pond, but what about people leaving gar and other fish to die down at the river? Yeah they're bait stealers and not very pretty, but a fish is a fish, even prehistoric gator fish lol.


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## 1mecheng (Jul 28, 2009)

Unfortunately, I have seen this type of activity firsthand over the last 3 years at the Whitehouse Quarry. The fishery has suffered immensely at the hands of all of the people who have fished the place out.
3 years ago, I could see schools of 12" bass all over the place, and the gills were prevalent. This year, I saw only a couple of gills, and the LM schools have decreased approximately by 60+%.
It can and does happen. People without restraint can ruin a fishery.
My $0.02 worth.
Dan


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## chevyjay (Oct 6, 2012)

ask the canadians abou truined fisheries. they fished the ocean with little restraint and are now suffering and complaining about a depleted fishery and how they can't provide for their families.
as for asian countries, they seem to have little regard to fish and wildlife populations. whatever attempts to control fish/wildlife with regulations go ignored because there is a lucrative market for everything from bear gall bladders to tiger skins.
as for the keep vs. release debate, the pro- keepers seem to have valid points and are pretty on point for the reasons to do so.(college degree in fish/wildlife mgt. supports my backing the keepers)


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## zeppelin_2000 (Jul 2, 2006)

I do think management is needed I c&r most of the time but do keep a few meals. In the times we have now with prices so high a lot more people depend on fishing for food. What pisses me off are the ones that keep everything that they catch legal or not. Watched a guy catch about 6 lmb all under 8" and each time he went back to his truck and fillet them one at a time and hid them in a cooler in his truck. Needless to say odnr got a phone call with his license number but will he stop? kind of don't think so, you can't change some people no matter how hard you try.

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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

zeppelin_2000 said:


> I do think management is needed I c&r most of the time but do keep a few meals. In the times we have now with prices so high a lot more people depend on fishing for food. What pisses me off are the ones that keep everything that they catch legal or not. Watched a guy catch about 6 lmb all under 8" and each time he went back to his truck and fillet them one at a time and hid them in a cooler in his truck. Needless to say odnr got a phone call with his license number but will he stop? kind of don't think so, you can't change some people no matter how hard you try.
> 
> Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Breaking the law is a whole different ball game. Those guys need busted. Whether it's in the wallet or in the face. Whatever gets the point across.

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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

If its legal and you don't agree go to meetings and work and change it. But really see no reason its anybody's business what others are doing legally. I believe in conservation to, but not preservation! And ODNR pay a lot of people who know more about it then us. Limits aren't just pulled from the air. They are set for many reasons. Not like opinions that every one has!


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## zeppelin_2000 (Jul 2, 2006)

If I see you break the law I report you, just wish more was done to the offenders. I have know of people that have there licences pulled for life and have seen them back out. I know only so much can be done with the multiple offenders with current laws but they need to do something, but I have no ideas for them. I just keep turning them in. If it's legal more power to you that's what it means to live in the good old USA. I like my privacy to do what is legal just as much as any person.

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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Hope your not talking to me. Only laws i ever broke was speeding one time. LOL! And yes I have turned lawbreakers in. But Id never presume to tell anyone they can't keep their catch if its legal. And thats what this thread is about. I for one stock my freezer with fish! And we eat it all year, same as any wild meat. I also share some occasionally. Even threw a large fish fry at the church for some seniors ,some who use to fish Erie. And i'll do it again this year. But thats why theres limits.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Thats the way it has to be. If I want to go out one day a year and catch 25 gills to fry up they then JimBob has to be allowed to catch 25 gills a day every day if he wants to. 

Now yea a few people could jack up a small body of water but how could you prevent it. You could set lower limits for smaller bodies of water but that is hard to enforce. Plus the smaller the lake the less pressure it gets on average (for the most part). Gills will bounce back they are great spawners. Those lakes get stocked every few years.

If you are going to a small public lake looking for quality fishing then your bound to be disappointed. Those fish are stocked into small public man-made ponds for people to easily catch and eat. Its not like they are robbing nature, they are taking advantage of a public sevice, and we all know how much Americans love to do that. Ponds are for goobers and families and lakes and rivers are for fishermen.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Bad Bub said:


> Breaking the law is a whole different ball game. Those guys need busted. Whether it's in the wallet or in the face. Whatever gets the point across.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Oh boy here we go again! As much as I enjoy the though of beating up poachers, its just not the right thing to do. Not worth risking your own livelihood. Make law enforcement do their job.


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## zeppelin_2000 (Jul 2, 2006)

No I wasn't aiming at you. lol 
Just at people in general, and getting physical is not the thing to do that's why we have law enforcement. ( I don't like getting hit I don't run as fast with my cane as when I was 18. rofl  )

What a lively debate we have, it's nice that we have a form like this for all of us to participate. 


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

This topic always gets a lot of debate on here from both sides. 

The state does what they can within reason , but a certain amount of the responsibility is still on the fishermen to do their part to HELP maintain this resource of ours. Unfortunately so many have the mindset that as long as they can do so legally , they are gonna take all the fish they can get , screw everybody else they are gettin theirs.....its legal right ? But that is not being responsible , none of our inland waters can handle the pressure so many meathunters put on them by taking so many so often. Remember,....its our responsibility to do our part as well to help maintain. Thats why so many lakes are depleted , its "legal" to do so people do it. Its a sensitive subject with different opinions , but most people agree the fishing isnt as good in many places as it should/could be or as good as it has been in the past , yet a large amount of those same people continue to take all they can get. I dont mean to offend anybody , so if you disagree with me its no big deal , but as a whole we are not being very good stewards of the resource by keeping so many. Its not the states responsibility to ensure we are doing our part and just because something is legal dont make it a responsible practice. We dont need to keep filling our freezers and feeding our extended families with our catch when so many bodies of water have been dying a slow death from too much pressure. Gone are the days when we could sustainably live off the land and take all we can just because its legal. The state maintains the fishery so people can go fishing , not as a viable mainstay to feed us all the fish we want to eat....there is a difference.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Seems a pretty bleak outlook there I'm afraid. I would tend to think we have some pretty solid waterways here in Ohio. Where is depleted? people talking about others keeping bucketfulls.. People are catching a lot of fish. As long a they keep the nets at bay well be fine.. For a while anyhow lol. Well ruin the water before we catch all the fish.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Never know a species to be fished out by the sportsfisherman yet. But im only 60 years old. So maybe you can enlighten me. Commercial fishing with nets will. Also maybe if everyone kept their fish it might be a problem. But so many dont. Also some just arent capable. I am curious to what lakes your speaking of. And what species.

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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

Probably safe to say that a vast majority of anglers release all of the fish they catch. I believe the last state wide survey I read about people targeting bass was around 96% catch and release. That's not very many people keeping fish. I'm sure pan fish and walleye anglers keep more, but most of the statewide "eye" populations are aided by stocking programs. And panfish have incredibly successful spawns even during less than ideal conditions. I would never say our lakes are depleted. Pressured? Absolutely! Honestly, I feel with our smaller bodies of water and large amount of anglers, we may have some of the most educated populations of fish. Which make many people believe they are depleted. Next time you hear of an electro shock boat doing a survey, try to get out and watch them. You'd be amazed at what lives in these depleted lakes and rivers.... 

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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

some species and some bodies of water are more resilient than others. For example , the overall state of bass fishing in buckeye lake has nothing to do with the panfish/perch/walleye populations in many of the upground reservoirs. What many of you seem to be saying is that since you personally have not seen or felt the negative effects in your fishing hole......"yet".....then its not happening. But ive seen it happen in some of the reservoirs in my area , especially with perch and walleye. If its happening here its happening in other places as well. But you know it really dont matter where it is or what fish it is , ....treating these small inland waters like the seafood section at your grocery store is gonna take a toll on the fishing. There are hundreds to thousands of other people doing it too. Plain old common sense says its atleast counterproductive , and in some bodies of water you may as well drag a gill net through them. But..........we all have a right to our opinion , and there are plenty who know what Im talking about.


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## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

I fish a resort in Canada where the rules are pretty strict regarding walleye.
I.e Total of four walleye with only one fish over 22 inches, and none between 16 and 22 inches etc..

However, the Indian gill netters are pillaging the walleye populations keeping everything they catch.
Also, many of the groups keep well over their limits, give them away to local restaurants, the camp owners, and anyone else that need a few for a fish fry. They know to leave camp at night so as not be stopped at a ONR checkpoint, and are the masters at packaging multiple walleye filets underneath pike skins.

We also see hammer handle pike coming up the steps and heading to the fish house on a regular basis, or stringers of walleye attached to the dock until the "legal limit" is cleaned befoe being retrieved for the "second cleaning."

People keep fish because they can. Often fish are brought into camp, such as large pike, simply to be shown off - trophies of sorts - bragging rights.

I am strictly Catch and Release everywhere and all species with the exception of a few walleye for dinner, and a limit to bring home. It is amazing the abuse that takes place.

Here locally, I have friends who brag of keeping "500 Crappie" from East Fork Lake last spring. Sad!


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

Ok one more time 

Small bodies of water can be wiped out by sport fishing think like 2 acres or less. Larger lakes cannot.
Case in point Mosquito Lake in northeast Ohio. There isn't a lake that receives more pressure than Mosquito. Yet year after year it produces lots of fish and. As far as I know walleye is the only fish that is supplemented in Mosquito by stocking. All the other species there do so via natural reproduction. I contend the fishing in this lake is a little better now then it was in the old days. The perch and crappie are bigger now on the average and more numerous.Back in the old days I seen people keeping burlap sacks full of fish from this lake yet it has thrived.

Any given body of water has a finite food source. It will support so many fish and thats it. That is why a non-native fish population can wreak more havoc on game fish population then sportmen could even think about.

To each his own .I don't knock C&R guys. But whats with the superior attitude toward those that keep and eat their fish. The only thing that would set me off is wasting the resource.

Some have the idea that if none of us kept any fish. Every body of water would just be stuffed with fish and everyone could catch them. That just is not true. There were lousy fishermen way back when and there always will be. A person that devotes about 6 , 3 hour trips every year is not going to be the fisherman that goes at least once a week. The person that already knows it all is not going to be the fisherman who realizes he will never know it all.

All of us have different tastes. I prefer perch , crappie ,walleye and bluegill. Those are what I will keep and thats about the order of my preference. Bass , Catfish , White Bass and other are always released by myself.

No amount of rules and regulations are going to make us all equal fishermen. Fishing is just like any other thing in life. What you get out of it is directly proportional to the amount of sweat and time you are willing to put in.

I had people tell me that mosquito was " fished out " in the seventies. I hear the same thing today. Believe what you want to believe but I believe the fish in my freezer.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Papaperch I fully agree.


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## murphy13 (Jun 30, 2013)

I am personally a catch and release fisherman... Nevermind what it does to the fish populations think about what it's doing to you and your loved ones bodies.. two words my friends polychlorinated biphenyls.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

murphy13 said:


> I am personally a catch and release fisherman... Nevermind what it does to the fish populations think about what it's doing to you and your loved ones bodies.. two words my friends polychlorinated biphenyls.


aaand there's a chart that tells you how much of each species and out of which waters you can eat. and then you can cut even more out by either avoiding bottom feeders, eating young fish, or cutting off the skin and the fat in some fish. I think the dark meat also. I fillet my fish so I'm getting rid of the skin.


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## murphy13 (Jun 30, 2013)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> aaand there's a chart that tells you how much of each species and out of which waters you can eat. and then you can cut even more out by either avoiding bottom feeders, eating young fish, or cutting off the skin and the fat in some fish. I think the dark meat also. I fillet my fish so I'm getting rid of the skin.


You are correct however I am sure the guy catching and keeping 25 fish everyday is exceeding that limit... Also the apex predators are loaded down with them such as large mouth and small mouth.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

murphy13 said:


> You are correct however I am sure the guy catching and keeping 25 fish everyday is exceeding that limit... Also the apex predators are loaded down with them such as large mouth and small mouth.


definitely. if he splits it up, its not as bad, but if he is it keeping for say him and his wife, than they are going over. and the theory that bass are going to have more than others, is quite interesting. makes sense because they eat other fish. but, I'm thinking because bluegill also eat plants, and plants grows in said water, wouldnt that make them infested with PCBs and mercury?


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## murphy13 (Jun 30, 2013)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> definitely. if he splits it up, its not as bad, but if he is it keeping for say him and his wife, than they are going over. and the theory that bass are going to have more than others, is quite interesting. makes sense because they eat other fish. but, I'm thinking because bluegill also eat plants, and plants grows in said water, wouldnt that make them infested with PCBs and mercury?


Unlike water-soluble chemicals, they(PCBs) are not excreted, so the body accumulates PCBs over years. This means that PCBs also accumulate via the food chain: a small fish may absorb PCBs in water or by eating plankton, and these PCBs are stored in its body fat. When a larger fish eats the small fish, it also eats and absorbs all the PCBs that have built up in the small fish. In this way, larger fish and animals can build up a highly concentrated store of PCBs.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

papaperch said:


> Ok one more time
> 
> Small bodies of water can be wiped out by sport fishing think like 2 acres or less. Larger lakes cannot.
> Case in point Mosquito Lake in northeast Ohio. There isn't a lake that receives more pressure than Mosquito. Yet year after year it produces lots of fish and. As far as I know walleye is the only fish that is supplemented in Mosquito by stocking. All the other species there do so via natural reproduction. I contend the fishing in this lake is a little better now then it was in the old days. The perch and crappie are bigger now on the average and more numerous.Back in the old days I seen people keeping burlap sacks full of fish from this lake yet it has thrived.
> ...




There are a lot more factors involved in whether a lake can sustain large fish harvests than just size. Water quality , temperature , frequency of stocking , food sources , location , available cover , diversity and types of fish present , amount of fishing pressure , depth , just to name a few. Pointing to one or two lakes that seem to have no trouble and saying they prove all the other lakes are the same is just inacurate. Its no secret that that many of the limits set for smaller inland lakes are the same as for lake erie , and its no secret that the smaller lakes just cant sustain or bounce back the way erie can. Does that make it the states fault ? Nope , it just means we could be more responsible with the amount we take from these lakes. You can legally fish at your nearest puddle and take 40 fish a day , but your neighbor who wants to take his kid on his first fishing trip probably wont appreciate the experience as much if most of the keepers are in your freezer. I have not been knocking anybody for keeping fish , though a few are acting like I just caught you with your hand in the cookie jar or struck a nerve somehow , Ive only been saying that just because something is legal dont make it responsible practice. Why dont you try perch fishing in findlay and see if its anything at all like it used to be , you are lucky to catch one most days. Sure there are other things that have effected them as well , but 40 fish limit per person per day which Ive personally seen being taken in years past , is the ultimate death blow. Its not the laws fault , I believe we are expected to use a little common sense. Dont get upset guys , I am only talking about being more responsible. That should be a welcome topic among sportsman.


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## hang_loose (Apr 2, 2008)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> aaand there's a chart that tells you how much of each species and out of which waters you can eat. and then you can cut even more out by either avoiding bottom feeders, eating young fish, or cutting off the skin and the fat in some fish. I think the dark meat also. I fillet my fish so I'm getting rid of the skin.


jonny, Hows your filleting technique coming along? Also curious if you are using an electric knife yet?


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

yonderfishin said:


> There are a lot more factors involved in whether a lake can sustain large fish harvests than just size. Water quality , temperature , frequency of stocking , food sources , location , available cover , diversity and types of fish present , amount of fishing pressure , depth , just to name a few. Pointing to one or two lakes that seem to have no trouble and saying they prove all the other lakes are the same is just inacurate. Its no secret that that many of the limits set for smaller inland lakes are the same as for lake erie , and its no secret that the smaller lakes just cant sustain or bounce back the way erie can. Does that make it the states fault ? Nope , it just means we could be more responsible with the amount we take from these lakes. You can legally fish at your nearest puddle and take 40 fish a day , but your neighbor who wants to take his kid on his first fishing trip probably wont appreciate the experience as much if most of the keepers are in your freezer. I have not been knocking anybody for keeping fish , though a few are acting like I just caught you with your hand in the cookie jar or struck a nerve somehow , Ive only been saying that just because something is legal dont make it responsible practice. Why dont you try perch fishing in findlay and see if its anything at all like it used to be , you are lucky to catch one most days. Sure there are other things that have effected them as well , but 40 fish limit per person per day which Ive personally seen being taken in years past , is the ultimate death blow. Its not the laws fault , I believe we are expected to use a little common sense. Dont get upset guys , I am only talking about being more responsible. That should be a welcome topic among sportsman.


You are so right about all the other factors. Out of all the other reasons , you single out the ONE thing that fishermen, have any control over. The amount of fish they choose to keep. Sorry that is just not logical.I know quite a few fishermen some bad some great. But even the great ones do not catch a limit every day they go out. Anyone that keeps harping that people do this just don't that much about fishing. As great a lake as Erie is . There are people that do bad on that lake. 

Next up will be the guys who blame the Amish or some other minority for their reasons why fishing is so bad. I do not know about Findlay res. But why is it you can use one lake to prove your point but we can ignore my choice mosquito to prove mine.

Not trying to get into a p---ing match with you. But I just can't ignore what 65 years of fishing has taught me. What really concerns me is some political figure that has the power will be convinced we need even more regulations. Their ignorance never fails to amaze me. There is a reason this phrase is the most feared in this country " I am from the government and I am here to help. "


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

And honestly, Erie has much stricter regulations than most inland lakes. Closed season on bass, higher length limits, reduced spring bag limits on walleye.... just to name a few. Which makes the point about Erie being able to "bounce bank" better than the inland lake pretty invalid....

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## Juan More Fish (Apr 1, 2007)

We shouldnt judge, Dont know what situation the guy is in, or his family. But its legal, yes in time it might ruin that little pond. But we cant pass judgement. What we can do, is dont do it our selves. 




big spurs 111 said:


> (it was not me )
> 
> Did you ever think that the guy was maybe trying to feed him self or his family , helping a friend ,trying to stock up on fish . maybe he only has a week or 2 to fish all year. don't judge others till you know the facts about his life .


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Bad Bub said:


> And honestly, Erie has much stricter regulations than most inland lakes. Closed season on bass, higher length limits, reduced spring bag limits on walleye.... just to name a few. Which makes the point about Erie being able to "bounce bank" better than the inland lake pretty invalid....
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Not invalid at all. You just helped prove the point. No other body of water in the state is as heavily managed , stocked , and helped along as erie. And thats on top of its sheer size. No ither lake can sustain and bounce back the way erie does. Common sense says erie limits on some species in smaller lakes can be exhaustive to certain species and we should be able to monitor ourselves accordingly.


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## bubbster (Jun 2, 2013)

If you do not take enough gills out of a pond they will become stunted!


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## bubbster (Jun 2, 2013)

Conservation-The wise use of resources-" does not mean that everyone will do that ". Preservation - " non use".That wo'nt work either, we must be somewhere in between.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

papaperch said:


> You are so right about all the other factors. Out of all the other reasons , you single out the ONE thing that fishermen, have any control over. The amount of fish they choose to keep. Sorry that is just not logical.I know quite a few fishermen some bad some great. But even the great ones do not catch a limit every day they go out. Anyone that keeps harping that people do this just don't that much about fishing. As great a lake as Erie is . There are people that do bad on that lake.
> 
> Next up will be the guys who blame the Amish or some other minority for their reasons why fishing is so bad. I do not know about Findlay res. But why is it you can use one lake to prove your point but we can ignore my choice mosquito to prove mine.
> 
> Not trying to get into a p---ing match with you. But I just can't ignore what 65 years of fishing has taught me. What really concerns me is some political figure that has the power will be convinced we need even more regulations. Their ignorance never fails to amaze me. There is a reason this phrase is the most feared in this country " I am from the government and I am here to help. "



I respect your 65 years of fishing experience and knowledge but the human population in the state is huge compared to 60 years ago with thousands more fisherman. Heck , there has been a huge increase in just the past 10 to 20 years , add to that much more out of state fisherman. Its not the 1950's anymore or even the 70's ot 80's , while its tempting to keep old traditions alive and do things the way we enjoyed doing them so many times in years past , we should accept that bucketfull fishing may not be as harmless as it once was. And yess i did pick the one factor that we as fisherman have any control over , thats because we actually have control over it , unlike the others which we dont , that makes it our responsibility not the states for passing new regulations. I can use the findlay example because its common knowledge that the state has cut back on stocking many reservoirs especially in NW Ohio and there are plenty of people who can vouch for the fishing in many of them to be only a shadow of what they once were. I know there are still lakes in good shape but things vary wildly from region to region and lake to lake. A one size fits all approach is not the best policy. Im not trying to get into pising match with you either just trying to point out that if we are more responsible and considerate fishermen then we all enjoy fishing a lot more.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

bubbster said:


> If you do not take enough gills out of a pond they will become stunted!



And if too many people take too many of them then the pond becomes empty. One or two people thinning out the fish can be beneficial but 50 people doing that , unaware that its being done already by the other 49 will , will totally screw up that pond.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Inland lakes and reservoirs that are stocked with Walleye, normally get around 225,000 fingerlings a year. They use to get ALOT more but with cutbacks this is the new norm.
The percentage of those that the ODNR would like to see reach legal size is 3%....It doesn't take long to see that with as many people fishing for them the population would be wiped out without stocking programs.
Many fish struggle to keep numbers up in certain lakes and reservoirs. 
In CJ for example, perch and Walleye have certain spawning requirements that CJ does not provide. With the Walleye ravaging the perch, you should consider yourself lucky to catch one. With the last 2 drawndowns for the Marina and New boat ramp, all of the lake vegetation was wiped out...the State actually doesn't want it back due to recreational boaters.
Due to yearly drawdowns which sometimes don't allow WB to get to the creek and spawn and MASSIVE overfishing during the spawn, the WB population is in trouble.
With no vegetation the LM population declined, since CJ only has a 12 inch limit and most people now keeping them "because they can"...the population can't recover.....I see 5 pounders in baskets and 6 inchers.
We finally had enough evidence that the ODNR had a crackdown on "poaching, etc"!
For 5 or more years people were taking everything they caught...fish that would go in my aquarium would leave the lake by the bucket and baskets-full.
A group of us fishermen have been adding cover to improve the baitfish population, spawning cover, and cover for adult fish...we have been doing this since 2007....and have finally stabilized the lake with way over 2000 pieces of cover and counting. The ODNR and COE have been allowing us to do this every year because they have seen the benefit....the only drawback is now, more and more fish are taken.
If people want to take Crappie, Bluegill, Channels, or other big spawners then fine...but fish that do not spawn as well or have a big population should be C&R....that is a fisherman's responsibility to know and everyone's responsibility to take care of their fishery. SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T CARE...UNTIL THEY DON'T CATCH FISH ANYMORE. IMHO the State has done a BAD job at looking at each lake and determining the best for each....this also comes down to lack of money........Just like the inevitable arrival of Asian Carp into Erie....then we'll see how well the lake and fishermen cope with that.....cause the State can't!


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## Jmsteele187 (Dec 22, 2011)

yonderfishin said:


> There are a lot more factors involved in whether a lake can sustain large fish harvests than just size. Water quality , temperature , frequency of stocking , food sources , location , available cover , diversity and types of fish present , amount of fishing pressure , depth , just to name a few. Pointing to one or two lakes that seem to have no trouble and saying they prove all the other lakes are the same is just inacurate. Its no secret that that many of the limits set for smaller inland lakes are the same as for lake erie , and its no secret that the smaller lakes just cant sustain or bounce back the way erie can. Does that make it the states fault ? Nope , it just means we could be more responsible with the amount we take from these lakes. You can legally fish at your nearest puddle and take 40 fish a day , but your neighbor who wants to take his kid on his first fishing trip probably wont appreciate the experience as much if most of the keepers are in your freezer. I have not been knocking anybody for keeping fish , though a few are acting like I just caught you with your hand in the cookie jar or struck a nerve somehow , Ive only been saying that just because something is legal dont make it responsible practice. Why dont you try perch fishing in findlay and see if its anything at all like it used to be , you are lucky to catch one most days. Sure there are other things that have effected them as well , but 40 fish limit per person per day which Ive personally seen being taken in years past , is the ultimate death blow. Its not the laws fault , I believe we are expected to use a little common sense. Dont get upset guys , I am only talking about being more responsible. That should be a welcome topic among sportsman.


I think you've made some very good, and IMO valid points. Us, as fisherman, being more responsible with our catch sizes was kinda the whole point of starting the thread.

I would have to disagree with it not being the states fault though. A state wide limit on sunfish of no limit is ridiculous. There are too many small public ponds and lakes that can be easily fished out to have a no limit limit. A state wide limit of 15-20 sunfish, I think would be much more suitable. A slot size limit wouldn't be a bad idea either.

We all realize that if some gills are not harvested they will become stunted, that's not the issue. The issue is showing up to a small pond, maybe an acre at the very most, every day and filling a bucket with anything that bites. And I feel that if you have to give fish away and have a big fish fry to make sure your fish doesn't go to waist, you're probably taking too many fish to begin with.


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## papaperch (Apr 12, 2004)

Actually on the average since the 80's there are a lot less fishermen. About 300,000 a year less. This is a nationwide trend. Fishing is not as popular with the instant results crowd. Its slow pace that leads to a relaxing day doesn't seem to appeal to the video gaming youth of today. This is not an opinion this is taken off the Ohio
record of sales.

As the older guys like me pass on . No one is replacing us in the ranks. Not all old guys are great fishermen but a lot of them are. So a lot of the guys who knew how , when and where to slay them are no longer here.
Now add into the equation that there are 300,000 less of us that fish. Factor in the huge increase in C& R in our ranks. I propose that a lot fewer fish are being kept then ever before.

Back in the 80's Ohio had sales of 1 million plus as far as liscenses. There have been ups and downs since then but the overall trend is down. To where a total of 700K on the average are sold. Can you at least see where I am coming from ? There may be other factors that are hurting the lakes you fish. But overharvest is not one of the leading candidates. That's why I cannot agree.

Small lakes are easily wiped out because every square inch of its habitat can be covered by the anglers. Since great shore fishing is it such short supply the word gets out and the pond is raped of its fish population. I used to have a great pond that I strictly saved for ice fishing. When fishing got tough I used to go there to restore my confidence in my ice fishing ability. Owner went on vacation for 2 weeks one summer. Some one or a group of people took everything out over a 4 inch gill. The pond has never recovered. The excellent breeding stock that lead to such large gills were removed from the gene pool and that was it. That was over 20 years ago and that pond is still lousy fishing today.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

papaperch said:


> Actually on the average since the 80's there are a lot less fishermen. About 300,000 a year less. This is a nationwide trend. Fishing is not as popular with the instant results crowd. Its slow pace that leads to a relaxing day doesn't seem to appeal to the video gaming youth of today. This is not an opinion this is taken off the Ohio
> record of sales.
> 
> As the older guys like me pass on . No one is replacing us in the ranks. Not all old guys are great fishermen but a lot of them are. So a lot of the guys who knew how , when and where to slay them are no longer here.
> ...


Maybe less... "True" fishermen!
Come to CJ during the Crappie spawn....watch the parent or parents with multiple kids with them....saw 1 Dad? and Mom? WITH 8 KIDS, watching 20 poles lined up on the bank...I'm sure they had the maximum amount of Crappie possible...this was going on around the whole lake where they could bank fish!....for the entire spawn! And "It's Legal"...plus all the other fish they could take!....It's pretty pathetic!
Some lakes when they were built kept the natural and man-made cover...these lakes have an easier time recovering. Lakes like CJ that were pretty much bulldozed clean have a lot harder time recovering from overfishing.....but, some of us keep trying to make it better.

As I have said before, even so called "True Fishermen" don't practice what they preach. 
After a couple huge cover drops...a mistake was made because we gave fishermen the benefit of doubt and GPS locations were published....these areas were HAMMERED 24/7 until everything was fished out and the cover was torn up....locations have never been given out again! Another pathetic showing by people who should have known better.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

This keeps going back to sunfish. I personally don't know of any body of water where sunfish numbers are a problem. If the numbers go down then the average size goes up due to less competition. And when the numbers go down then the next couple years of spawning with be much more successful due to less competition. Sunfish and crappie are very hard to to fish out because the spawn like crazy. 

Top tier predatory fish need protected because they spawn less and grow slow. But the regs already do a pretty good job of that. These fish are also part of a stocking program to replace fish taken for food.

I feel bad for you guys if the fishing really that bad in your areas. But they call it a sport because it is supposed to be a challenge. Its not like there used to be a time when every cast landed a trophy fish. Yes we need to use moderation but there seems to be enough c&r guys to balance out the limit takers. I only keep about less that 5% of the fish I catch but no one is going to make me feel guilty for keeping that 5% no mater what species or size it is.

I think the issues facing flathead catfish and blues are some of largest harvest treats in the state. They are addressing it and hopefully it gets better. But this seems to be less about food and more about cash. 

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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

papaperch said:


> Actually on the average since the 80's there are a lot less fishermen. About 300,000 a year less. This is a nationwide trend. Fishing is not as popular with the instant results crowd. Its slow pace that leads to a relaxing day doesn't seem to appeal to the video gaming youth of today. This is not an opinion this is taken off the Ohio
> record of sales.
> 
> As the older guys like me pass on . No one is replacing us in the ranks. Not all old guys are great fishermen but a lot of them are. So a lot of the guys who knew how , when and where to slay them are no longer here.
> ...





"AKRON, Ohio &#8212; More people around Ohio and the nation are getting hooked on fishing, after two decades of decline for the sport.

A new report from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service shows fishing has become more popular over the past five years, with the number of anglers in the state reaching 1.4 million for an increase of 11 percent during that period.

The number of fishing licenses issued in Ohio also jumped last year to more than 865,000, or roughly 52,000 more than the previous year, the Akron Beacon Journal (http://bit.ly/1cgdOcX ) reported.

The growing participation in Ohio reflects a national increase in the number of anglers, a trend that wildlife experts had not anticipated.

"That was pretty much a surprise to us," Richard Aiken, lead economist with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, told the newspaper. "We were kind of thinking the downward trend was going to continue."

The survey didn't ask about respondents' reasons for participating in fishing and other recreational activities, and the causes of the earlier decline and recent upward swing in popularity aren't clear.

One reason could be that it's a relatively inexpensive sport, which might have been appealing as the economy struggled in recent years and people became more cost-conscious. Another factor might be promotions and programs designed to lure anglers, old and new."

http://www.wral.com/popularity-of-fishing-increases-around-ohio-us/12611615/


People in general have a lot more free time now than ever before , so maybe fewer people fishing but more often , and many times farther from home than before. Under those conditions a reduced number of around 250,000 fisherman can be decieving.

So overharvest , isnt a factor at all , in any location , or even a contributing factor in lakes that already have other things going on or reduced stocking ? Based on your assumptions there is no place in the state where overharvest is hurting a fishery ? ...well we all have a right to our opinion but I dont see the logic in that. We can disagree and still get along.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

rustyfish said:


> I feel bad for you guys if the fishing really that bad in your areas. But they call it a sport because it is supposed to be a challenge. Its not like there used to be a time when every cast landed a trophy fish. Yes we need to use moderation but there seems to be enough c&r guys to balance out the limit takers. I only keep about less that 5% of the fish I catch but no one is going to make me feel guilty for keeping that 5% no mater what species or size it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Hahaha!


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

I take very few fish and mostly panfish or Channel cats but that is not the point. If I want to keep a 5Lb bass or any other legal fish in this state it is not anyone else's business. I don't do this but I can not judge anyone who does. 

If you want to pretend that keeping farmed fish out of a man made lake is damaging a natural resource then Im not sure how to respond. I tend to be more concerned with rivers myself, but luckily they tend to not be as much of an issue. Pollution affects them more which also tends to stop people from keeping fish.

The comment about your areas being over harvested was sincere and was meant separate from the challenging sport statement. I see very few issues around my fishing area (other than flathead) but have no experience up north. I see a lot of nice fish posted from all over this state and that is the only view I get. 

If there are site specific needs then they should be addressed by site specific regs. Why change the state wide regs to help (not my words) a smooth bottom, no structure, non fertile lake that was doomed from the start. I would not even set site regs for a lake like that, instead they should fix the lake.

There are many spots and times of the year when people pack the bank elbow to elbow and walk away with buckets of fish day after day. Year after year people go back and there the fish are same as last year. Others spots you go back the next year and it is wiped out. Those two spots should not be treated the same. 

Most of the fish I keep are used for catfish bait, I always go to the same few spots to get them. Some of them are tiny creeks with very few small holes and time after time year after year the fish are there. Natural bodies of water do one thing very well, produce life.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

murphy13 said:


> Unlike water-soluble chemicals, they(PCBs) are not excreted, so the body accumulates PCBs over years. This means that PCBs also accumulate via the food chain: a small fish may absorb PCBs in water or by eating plankton, and these PCBs are stored in its body fat. When a larger fish eats the small fish, it also eats and absorbs all the PCBs that have built up in the small fish. In this way, larger fish and animals can build up a highly concentrated store of PCBs.


what i am saying is, the plants could absorb pcbs right? and bluegill can eat small fish too, have watched them eat crayfish, minnows, and small shad. when theres nothing else around, they will eat strictly plants and crayfish. whats really needed is a comparison of the pcbs in bass compared to bluegill of say, the same age and same environment. these theories make sense, but need a bit more evidence.
Hang_loose, i sharpened the knife with a stone i found. its much better, but not as sharp as when i first got the knife. regarding a electric knife, i may get a mister twister when i get my birthday gift money.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Johny you are sort of arguing against yourself, bass eat a lot of gills in their life so you saying that gills can have high numbers supports that bass would have much higher. Its not a theory it is a proven fact that top of the chain predators have higher exposure to most toxins.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

rustyfish said:


> I take very few fish and mostly panfish or Channel cats but that is not the point. If I want to keep a 5Lb bass or any other legal fish in this state it is not anyone else's business. I don't do this but I can not judge anyone who does.
> 
> If you want to pretend that keeping farmed fish out of a man made lake is damaging a natural resource then Im not sure how to respond. I tend to be more concerned with rivers myself, but luckily they tend to not be as much of an issue. Pollution affects them more which also tends to stop people from keeping fish.
> 
> ...


There are places that have plenty of Bass, or Perch, or any other fish...and there are lakes all around Ohio that these same fish are struggling because of one reason or another. Most of your stream or river fish probably have some ties to lake fish.
ODNR Rules and Regs cannot be across the board for all lakes....some need to be looked at case by case but fishermen also need to know and understand the bodies of water they are fishing and try to help struggling populations of sportfish and take only from healthy populations of self sustainable fish. The Bad part of this is the casual fisherpeople who just don't care and will take home ANYTHING and AS MUCH AS THEY CAN CARRY! More and more people are filling this category. 
Some lakes need a few years where no Bass should be taken, just so the population can build, then you can look at size or slot limits to keep it healthy.
Some lakes could use the same restrictions on other fish....the whole idea is to let them build a self sustaining population...it would also work hand in hand with cover projects in alot of those lakes.


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## murphy13 (Jun 30, 2013)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> what i am saying is, the plants could absorb pcbs right? and bluegill can eat small fish too, have watched them eat crayfish, minnows, and small shad. when theres nothing else around, they will eat strictly plants and crayfish. whats really needed is a comparison of the pcbs in bass compared to bluegill of say, the same age and same environment. these theories make sense, but need a bit more evidence.
> Hang_loose, i sharpened the knife with a stone i found. its much better, but not as sharp as when i first got the knife. regarding a electric knife, i may get a mister twister when i get my birthday gift money.


Every PCB those blue gills ingest are now inside the bass for the rest of its life.... So once a bass eats 2 blue gills(equal size) it is reasonable to assume it will have ingested twice the amount of PCBs that a single blue gill would have.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

I think you are right about my mess of thoughts. Im juggling what I have been taught, what iv learned on my own, and how I feel. There is a bit of contradiction and a lot of grey area in this subject. Hard to look at is as black and white.

My feelings.

1. Every fisherman has the right to harvest any legal fish without harassment. But this should be done with common sense and respect.

2. Harvesting fish from public waters to stock private waters or sell is wrong.

3. Small bodies of water near large cities are a lost cause for sport fishermen. Just to many people in one place who have just as much right to harvest fresh fish as the rest of the state. They should be stocked heavily as a service to those people with few other options but I would have low expectations for trophy fish.

4. Sometimes there is a need for harvest or a need for not harvest. The state should continue to identify these needs and act accordingly. 

5. C&R is a good practice, but %100 C&R would not be effective management and would produce its own problems.

6. That guy with the stringer full of fish, he may do that every day or once a year. Try not to judge what you don't know.


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## yonderfishin (Apr 9, 2006)

Its not realistic to expect the state to break down and address each location and assign new site specific regs for each and the cost of additional research and monitoring of locations , above and beyond what is already done is probably just not cost effective for the state. And most of us work for a living and dont have the time and money to try and get things changed , so it is what it is.


To me , having 100 fish taking up space in my freezer with the possibility they could end up ruined somehow just seems like a waste. Makes more sense to let them swim until I need them , and they are fresher that way. I also dont need to feed other people with my catch , they can get their own if they want fish. As soon as get what I need the rest go back in the water as I catch them so someone else can enjoy them and i can still fish all day. Maybe I am just old fashioned.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

murphy13 said:


> Every PCB those blue gills ingest are now inside the bass for the rest of its life.... So once a bass eats 2 blue gills(equal size) it is reasonable to assume it will have ingested twice the amount of PCBs that a single blue gill would have.


but then theres also the question of how strong the digestive system is. surely, there must be some pcbs eliminated from taking a run through the digestive acids and being eliminated as fecal matter. again, needs some tests/experiments done.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

jonnythfisherteen2 said:


> but then theres also the question of how strong the digestive system is. surely, there must be some pcbs eliminated from taking a run through the digestive acids and being eliminated as fecal matter. again, needs some tests/experiments done.


As I said it has been researched and tested. It is excepted as a fact in the scientific community. There has been thorough testing of toxins in water and fish and this is what it has shown.


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## ranger373v (Oct 26, 2012)

could be harvesting small fish to make the bigger ones thrive


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## Northern1 (May 9, 2012)

After reading all of this, why doesn't the state make more specific regulations for each body of water? Obviously it isn't a one size fits all solution. I know some lakes have different limits and sizes, but for the most part are pretty standard. I live in the Lima area. I fish Indian, St. Marys, and the Lima Reservoirs. There is no way Indian Lake or GLSM should have the same limits and sizes as Lima Lake. I'm not an expert on it, but the quality of fishing cannot be helped in some of the smaller bodies of water if you are allowed the same limits as the larger bodies of water.


Here's something I was also thinking about, even for the bigger bodies of water... 

Earlier, I saw someone posted that the DNR expects 3% of the stockings to reach keeper size. The main stocking I think of in Indian Lake is saugeye. Lets just look at it as an example. If you look at the catch rates of most guys on the boards here, they might take home 3 keepers a trip, and maybe make 20 trips a summer. 60 fish total taken. So 3% of about 500,000 fingerlings (number may be a bit off) is 15,000. That would mean that 250 anglers taking 60 fish per summer/fall/winter reach maxing out that resource provided by the DNR. Does every angler take 60 fish? Heck no, but there are many who take a lot more, and many who take a lot less. It may average out, but everytime you drive by Lakeview and see the wall of anglers, then look out and see the school of those trolling, you wonder if that resource really could be dried up. Do I have the answer? Nope. Does everyone catch their limit of 6 fish per day? Not even close. But I do think there are waaayyy more than 250 anglers on Indian lake during the summer hunting saugeye, and although catch rates are good, say there are 1,000 guys who take just 15 saugeye out of there per year, that's the resource from a given stocking 3-5 years before. That's not hard to imagine in my opinion. Sometimes when I go there and get skunked, I just wonder what it could be if there wasn't so much pressure, or even if you were only allowed to take 4 instead of 6. But it is what it is, and I still enjoy it.

Crappie from my experience are a bit harder to come by as far as size, not necessarily numbers. I know at certain times of year they can be caught, although there are few large ones to be kept. All of the ones last fall seemed to be 8''. And when you go over to the pads, you're bumper to bumper with others weeding through 8''ers as well. they don't grow to size on that lake IMO because they get caught before they grow up. some might say its because there are so many little ones that are stunting them, but no way, not on a lake with predatory saugeye and bass. So, not only on Indian but other lakes, I wouldn't hate to see that crappie keeper number go down to around 20 instead of 30 slabs. I'll admit, i'm not the best at crappie fishing, but there are many many who are great at it, and many that keep their limit. It's tough to say that doesn't affect the fishing quality.

All and all, I think that it would be beneficial to have more specific regulations species to species within each individual lake. from the example I gave- saugeye are doing well, not great (especially this year) at Indian, whereas crappie are harder to come by. (this is from my experience only by the way, its in no way a comprehensive survey.) I know it would be a bit of a pain and inconvenience to institute something like that, but man I really think it would make for better fisheries in the future.

We have every right to be meat fishermen. I have white bass, crappie, and saugeye in my freezer right now. But, I do not keep more than my wife and I can eat. I just don't think it would hurt to reduce limits, and even increase size requirements on fish like crappie (10'' limit IMO) and see what happens to the quality of fish. Just my opinion.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

CJ BROWN is a good example....our group consists of close to 50 fishermen and expanding.
We have a great working relationship with the ODNR and COE...we have been dropping cover and cleaning up trash for 6 years now...you would think they would listen to our concerns about the different species and ideas to make their populations stronger.... but they are still more concerned with selling license, so they don't want to make the general public mad by not allowing them to keep fish.
IMHO at CJ, we need a 2 yr ban on keeping all fish except Crappie, WB, Bluegills, Channels, and Walleye....then take a look at it after 2 good spawns and see what sizes if any can be harvested. 
Our group is very diverse in the fish each of us catches, we all care about our "home" lake, we have the lake knowledge! and can give the ODNR the info it needs to make decisions.
Since they are suffering more and more budget cuts, this is a working model they should consider. We are expanding the fish holding capability of the lake and growing the natural baitfish and minnow population. Along with the stable growth of the shade population and cover, we have all the ingredients for a very good lake...we feel it just needs a kick start!


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## senoy (Feb 3, 2013)

I can't say much for bass and panfish, but I fish walleye a lot and you can bet your last dollar that they can be overfished by sportsfirshermen. Carrying capacity on lakes runs from 0-12 walleye an acre with a normal of 3-5. So you take a lake like Milton that's 1500 acres, you only realistically have 6000-7000 adult fish in there. Stocking can overload the system some, but walleye take 3 years to reach catchable size and in that time, they become susceptible to the normal carrying forces of forage and habitat. It doesn't take many people taking their limit to completely decimate stocks.

What's really bad though is that you're altering fish number balances. Walleye fishermen by and large are not catch and releasers, bass fishermen by and large are. So what happens is that you take a lake that is good walleye habitat and you start killing their numbers while not thinning bass numbers. LMB move in to vacated habitat and start crushing the fingerlings and they never make it to adulthood. You can turn a good walleye lake into a LMB lake in no time if you're not careful and the slow growth rate of walleye and the fact they have to be stocked no larger than advanced fingerlings makes it very hard to reestablish those populations once you have the LMB imbalance.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

senoy said:


> I can't say much for bass and panfish, but I fish walleye a lot and you can bet your last dollar that they can be overfished by sportsfirshermen. Carrying capacity on lakes runs from 0-12 walleye an acre with a normal of 3-5. So you take a lake like Milton that's 1500 acres, you only realistically have 6000-7000 adult fish in there. Stocking can overload the system some, but walleye take 3 years to reach catchable size and in that time, they become susceptible to the normal carrying forces of forage and habitat. It doesn't take many people taking their limit to completely decimate stocks.
> 
> What's really bad though is that you're altering fish number balances. Walleye fishermen by and large are not catch and releasers, bass fishermen by and large are. So what happens is that you take a lake that is good walleye habitat and you start killing their numbers while not thinning bass numbers. LMB move in to vacated habitat and start crushing the fingerlings and they never make it to adulthood. You can turn a good walleye lake into a LMB lake in no time if you're not careful and the slow growth rate of walleye and the fact they have to be stocked no larger than advanced fingerlings makes it very hard to reestablish those populations once you have the LMB imbalance.


And Walleye do theirselves no favor by being so cannibalistic....that is one of the reasons they cannot be held past fingerling stage...once they start gorging nothing is safe.
The good thing about CJ is that it is deep and has areas of natural structure that small Bass and Gators need to grow. Once we get vegetation growing again...it will be even better for both species.
You are right though...balance is the key....I don't understand a 6 fish creel and 15 inch size on Gators...there's not much meat on a 15 incher....I think resources are better spent letting them grow more.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> And Walleye do theirselves no favor by being so cannibalistic....that is one of the reasons they cannot be held past fingerling stage...once they start gorging nothing is safe.
> The good thing about CJ is that it is deep and has areas of natural structure that small Bass and Gators need to grow. Once we get vegetation growing again...it will be even better for both species.
> You are right though...balance is the key....I don't understand a 6 fish creel and 15 inch size on Gators...there's not much meat on a 15 incher....I think resources are better spent letting them grow more.


You have to make the end goal somewhat attainable or noone will show ie; no revenue to support their programs. Saugeye are a big draw in central ohio. I'll fillet a 15" saugeye any day. Thats at least 3-4 crappies worth.


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

> I sure wish more people would keep sheepshead. We kept track last Thursday off of Niagara. In seven hours...
> 
> 34 walleye
> 96 sheepshead
> 8 white bass


Or how about release more walleye? Works both ways. 



> Oh no! A lengthy discussion with varying opinions on OGF! Can't have that! Hurry, shut it down!


Love OGF. Ran out of popcorn at about pg. 3 

After I had no popcorn left I didn't read on any further, but I agree with points on both sides, though more so on the C&R side especially with the smaller bodies of water. There's a few places I go to that are filled with the keep everything crowd. Everything includes green sunfish and bluegills under 5in. Makes me sick, as some of the places aren't as good anymore, yet some of them are still producing fish.

I also get very tired of seeing pictures day after day on here of buckets and tables FILLED with limits of crappie and whatnot, but then again it's happening year after year and the fishing is STILL good.


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## thelatrobe33 (May 19, 2008)

rustyfish said:


> Johny you are sort of arguing against yourself, bass eat a lot of gills in their life so you saying that gills can have high numbers supports that bass would have much higher. Its not a theory it is a proven fact that top of the chain predators have higher exposure to most toxins.


It's called bioamplification.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

MassillonBuckeye said:


> You have to make the end goal somewhat attainable or noone will show ie; no revenue to support their programs. Saugeye are a big draw in central ohio. I'll fillet a 15" saugeye any day. Thats at least 3-4 crappies worth.


Saugeye are a totally different fish...they are normally stocked for the taking, they are a heartier more adaptive cross that grows quickly, and a small percentage can even spawn and reproduce in waters Walleye cannot.
Most Pure Walleye lakes are brood lakes that must be sustained to continue the States stocking programs.....even Erie is the recipient of fish from brood lakes. Can you imagine giving those 15 inch Walleye another year or so of growth. Bigger fish, more eggs...IMHO a win win for all.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Intimidator said:


> Most Pure Walleye lakes are brood lakes that must be sustained to continue the States stocking programs.....even Erie is the recipient of fish from brood lakes.


No walleye stocking program for Erie exists. Unless you have a source for information that the fisheries biologist for Erie doesn't know about.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

fishinnick said:


> I also get very tired of seeing pictures day after day on here of buckets and tables FILLED with limits of crappie and whatnot, but then again it's happening year after year and the fishing is STILL good.


why? I love seeing buckets and tables filled with a good days catch, lets me know everyone is doing good. if nobody is exceeding their limits whats the big deal?


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

ezbite said:


> why? I love seeing buckets and tables filled with a good days catch, lets me know everyone is doing good. if nobody is exceeding their limits whats the big deal?


Well, you're right, and I over exaggerated a little but it just seems like much to keep that many. That's 50 less fish in a lake, and it adds up if people keep on doing it day after day. Like I said though the fishing is still good in the lakes even though a boatload of fish get kept. As long as the fishing stays good and people don't go over the limit, I'm ok with it I guess. But as soon as the fishing goes down the crapper then that's when I'll start to worry. Just seems like much to me keeping that many, but it's just my personal opinion. I too occasionally keep fish, but not nearly that many although I may catch that many. Get tired after filleting just 5 or so fish lol.


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## rustyfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Lundy said:


> No walleye stocking program for Erie exists. Unless you have a source for information that the fisheries biologist for Erie doesn't know about.


Do any of those Northeast walleye lakes drain to lake Erie or do they all drain south? Maybe he was referring to stocked fish going down stream? I have no clue just curious.


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## fishinnick (Feb 19, 2011)

The only NE Ohio walleye lake that I know of that drains into Erie is Ladue.


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## hutzr (May 17, 2012)

See Below:

Registrations are required for every recreational boat *in* Ohio, including powerboats, sailboats, canoes,* kayaks*, pedal boats, inflated boats, paddle boards, and float tubes with more than one air cylinder.
ORC 1547.531


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## sdguardmp (Jul 10, 2013)

a small tip from SD, by the time you realize that you need changes to your regulations, its too late to save the year classes being affected. it all falls on how proactive your DNR is. but if your areas suffers the same lack of funding and attention as we do. then I whole heartedly agree with some previous posts that they need to pay better attention and respect to the angler society's that are on the water far more then they are. I'm a little on the extreme side, i'd rather have better fishing for the larger sizes of the species in question. to include minimum lengths on crappies and an aggressive slot limit for walleyes, granted it needs to be on a case by case basis for each body of water.


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## murphy13 (Jun 30, 2013)

I'm all for people keeping fish but what i saw today disgusted me I saw a group of kids keep several bass under the size limit and left all their trash well after they left.


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## jonnythfisherteen2 (Mar 5, 2011)

murphy13 said:


> I'm all for people keeping fish but what i saw today disgusted me I saw a group of kids keep several bass under the size limit and left all their trash well after they left.


how much you want to bet their parents didn't teach them to regard the rules and not to leave trash behind?


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