# starting pups in the field?



## skerr

For those of you who have trained gun dogs, how early do you take them out to the field? I've read that you can take them out when they are young just to exercise pointing or whatever instinct (I have a GSP), but is I've also heard that you can't do this if they don't understand whoa, b/c they'll chase off the birds. How have you introduced pups to birds? Should I start with clipped pigeons? I should add he will start 'formal' training this winter when he takes hunter retriever class and tracking (through Columbus All Breed Club), so I don't want him to learn bad habits that later become impossible to break.


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## littleking

i wait until 10-16 weeks and start with quail, let them chase them around a bit, then introduce pigeons as much as the pup will let me..

I have birds at my house if you ever want to bring him/her out


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## longhaulpointer

all dogs are different at maturing. with that said its never to early to take a dog into the field. i'm a little unconventional and prefer to let a dog chase birds when their young, then break them when their older say a year or so. The pointing instinct will come natural, not much you can do there. the advantage to letting the dog chase stuff is that it makes it fun to them. You don't want to break the dog to young or it won't associate hunting w fun, it'll think of it as work. i think the best thing is to let the dog go all out freakin nuts on birds, let him chase em, chew em, eat em, whatever until that dog is a raving bird lunatic. then when it proves it can hunt, you break it and have a dog that is a freakin crazy huntin bastard. the upside to this is you don't waste time on a sub par dog if it doesn't want to hunt. also remember NEVER train a dog to long. make it fun. i'm sure a lot of people will disagree w me on this, but everyone who trains dogs has their own aproach, good luck and finf your own, also i suggest reading delmar smith's common sense aproach great book to get you started.


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## Searay

Keep the dog away from danger (roads, barb wire, electric fences) and use as least pressure such as lots of commands and let the pup be a pup, whoa and come are the important ones make sure when you use them you can enforce them when given say it once and that's it they must respond....Start out with little birds some pup make get startled with the flush of a pheasant... Take your pup out asap!


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## JTKessOH

Im still in the process of training my first pup for waterfowl but I had him out for the first time on a dove hunt Wednesday at 5 months. I waited until he could heel and come on command and I was sure he would not be gun shy. I would suggest this to you as well so your not chasing a dog around instead of hunting. I agree with Searay though, get them out early.


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## vinnystatechamp

early is good. with our dogs, my father and i tied a long rope to the collar to help with the pointing and retrieving if u have a wirely pup. worked out amazing for us.


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## longhaulpointer

forgot to mention, but def make sure the dog isn't gun shy. you should start shooting a cap gun off around it when its eating or gettin a treat. its real hard to break an older dog from being gun shy.


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## birdhunt

get him out among, people, kids, other dogs, and woods/field smells.........the sooner he gets used to all those things the better...........if he wanders a bit, hide on him...unless he is older that will start him checking in on you.........have fun with him!


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## BuckeyeHunter

longhaulpointer said:


> forgot to mention, but def make sure the dog isn't gun shy. you should start shooting a cap gun off around it when its eating or gettin a treat. its real hard to break an older dog from being gun shy.


My dog is terrified of every little noise in the house, a plastic bag fell off the fridge one night and he wouldn't go back in the kitchen to eat dinner. A cap gun would literally scare the $# out of him. However I can shoot a howitzer when a bird is flushing and he wouldn't care at all. My point is, if you are going to introduce them to a gun, make sure you shoot over them when a bird is present so that they associate guns with good things.


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## littleking

longhaulpointer said:


> forgot to mention, but def make sure the dog isn't gun shy. you should start shooting a cap gun off around it when its eating or gettin a treat. its real hard to break an older dog from being gun shy.


i disagree with that method... i solely believe you should introduce the gun around birds; this will associate the sound of the gun with birds.


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## skerr

Don't worry, he's not gun shy... We bought a new 10-22 the other day and were out plinking with it and Coty was in the yard chasing butterflies. He barely flinches at guns. He did however, not enjoy the marching bands at the Delaware All Horse Parade...He was terrified when the first band passed, and I held on to him but ignored him completely. By ignoring, I understand that you don't reinforce the dog's fearfulness. He realized that there wasn't anything to be afraid of. There were four schools and by the time the last one marched by he was ok, and just watched but didn't try to hide or struggle like with the first band. I will be getting him out in the next week or so, will let you all know how it goes!


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## longhaulpointer

littleking said:


> i disagree with that method... i solely believe you should introduce the gun around birds; this will associate the sound of the gun with birds.


thats good and all, but if the dog freaks out when he first hears a gun shot and it just so happens to be when he finds a bird..... that dog could be worthless real quick. I have seen this happen many times where someone takes a dog into the field, dog points, shotgun blast, dog runs back to the truck and doen't want to hunt ever again. to each his own, but a slow gradual approach associating bangs w treats or food is a simple no fail way.


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## birdhunt

I always take my pups to the local trap range for their first experience with the reports..........start out quite a ways from the shooters, and work my way closer, depending on how they react..........also start with 22 out in the field, ideally shooting when the dog is chasing a butterfly, sparrow, or what ever.........you can't be too carefull!!!..........they aren't born gun shy.


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## smaxwell

I too have a 11 week old GSP and am getting ready to start and introduce her to birds. I have already given her a pheasant tail that my son shot last year and she had a blast with it. Some have said it was the wrong thing to do (don't want to teach her to chew on feathers/birds) - others disagree.

I bought the George Hickox DVD's (at the recommendation of my buddy where I got the pup) and am looking to find some pigeon's to start and introduce her to live birds. He recommends starting with locked-wing pigeons and then move to clipped wing once the dog is comfortable.

Any recommendations on where to find some pigeons as well as a pheasant wing for training would be great!!


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## littleking

I have pigeons, I'm up in johnstown... they are homers. Bring her up


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## bird-dogman

I'm the first to admit I'm not an expert but...

Introduce your puppy to birds as soon as possible, you want them to love birds!

The only thing I have been careful about was not letting your dog catch the bird and NEVER punish them for anything when they are around birds. I punished him once and he blinked birds for about a week!!! If they do something wrong retrain in a non hunting situation. 

My favorite tool was the whoa board. Once he learned the board meant whoa, I could let live quail walk around the board and watch him point and quiver. I felt bad for him, but it sure taught him to be steady on point!


Jim


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## bird-dogman

I never really punish a dog! I nicked him with the e-collar.

That comment really looked bad!


Jim


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## BaddFish

I really enjoyed this thread... I have a 5 yr old yellow lab that has been doing great with water and land duck retrieves..

At 3 months I wounded a pigeon and it flew off around the house... i brought Beau around to it and he was sniffing around and made the bird flush... Beau took off after it across our front yard and the bird landed again and Beau nabbed it up and walked around proudly with it in his mouth... 
It was a happy day for me!

I broke him into gun shots by working dummies in the yard and after awhile we started saying "bang" real loud with our mouth and throwing the dummies- then we worked up to a .22, then .410 and now my son and I have both shot 12 gages next to him (simulating a waterfowl hunt) and he didn't care- only focused on the dummies.

The time and training with him has been so fun- maybe cause he's doing so good... he's 5 months old now and next Sunday I'm taking to the local training/bird hunt club where we will train him on chukars.... can't wait!


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## c. j. stone

I've had Brits all my life. Read some Richard Wolters books and got some general ideas on training, did the pheasant wing on a fishing rod in the yard when they were around 2-4 mos. old to draw out their pointing instinct. They all quickly showed they were natural pointers. I have never trained them to retrieve as they would run to the bird and mouth it or pin it if still alive, and some would retrieve naturally. I've had some great dogs and never had to do a lot of formal training. Maybe Brits are just natural hunters/plain easier to get hunting than some other breeds, maybe I've been really lucky(maybe somewhat lazy), don't know but I think the most important thing is to take them into the field and let them develop on their own. I start them when they are old enough to run thru the fields. Some got to be good hunters the first year, some took up to THREE years, but they all were good enough for me-and most importantly, members of the family. No penning up bird dogs for us!!


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## longhaulpointer

[, but they all were good enough for me-and most importantly, members of the family. No penning up bird dogs for us!![/QUOTE]

always heard from old timers that kennel dogs hunt harder and thats a croc. my dogs are good hunters, family dogs, and protectors of the house. not sure if they would bite anyone who would be dumb enough to break in, but they would sure alert the family and i. season is to short to have a dog strictly for hunting. my gsp sleeps in the bed most nights, wifes side of bed, my pointer hold down the couch in the basement everynight. People come over and ask why i let the dogs on the furniture, answer is i like the dogs better than i like you.


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## maxx40x

I have to agree with most of whats been said. My pup (Maxx) was 10 weeks old, and you may or may not believe it but he was locking up on anything with wings; butterflys sparrows, jays, .. And while I dont think he knew exactly what he was doing at that age, he was doing it well and having a blast doing it. I also shot over him at that age with a starter pistol, then a 22, then a 410,a 28 gauge... and now (3 years later) one of my 20s or a 16; and he sleeps with my wife and I when we let him; (or that should be when he lets us sleep with him). In any event, if your pup responds to come and whoa, get your pup into the field ASAP. Get a wing (pidgin- pheasant-quail let him play; hell, let him sleep with it if he wants I still let Maxx play for an hour before I take him to where the birds are. (Where I am hunting) thats just the way he likes it. I have never had to bump or nudge him with an EC. I got lucky with Maxx ; then again I looked for a long time before finding the Shorthair I wanted. (actually the breeder found me) in any event, get your pup into the field. There isnt much in life better than watching/hunting over a good bird dog. unless its fishing, or bowhunting, or........


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## coydog1254

Honestly the best way to train a dog or puppy to gun fire is play. Have someone 70 or 80 yards away. Play tug with the dog and have them fire a single 22 blank. If the pup doesn't react fire one or two more. The point is to teach them to ignore the gun. You will move closer to the gun with more lessons. I have personally trained atleast 50 dogs this same way and never turned up with a gun shy dog. Incidentaly the dogs I trained would have two or three guns shot fired toward them before engaging a human. A bird dog would act no differently and would ignore the gun shot, just with out the bite at the end.


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