# Chagrin10/20(+rant)



## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

Son and I went to Chagrin thinking the crowds should not be bad during the week and it was a beautiful day to fish(maybe a tad tooo bright!) We found the river very low and clear and could only find one darker, fishable(in our opinion), hole that had two guys in it. He went up and I went down but stayed within sight of the two guys. They finally left and we took up their positions. 
Couple jumpers in the lower section of the pool told us we weren't wasting our time. Son got a nice 8 pound female and strung it up since we are in our second year without sacks due to only catching males(and releasing them). 
Wouldn't you know it, as soon as he strings up the hen, a "BIG bobber" and a bluegill weight fly caster move right into our area, one below and one above, cutting our drifts in half! Now we waited nearly two hours to get that spot(which was truly only suited for max. of two people) and did not shoe-horn ourselves in on the the original two guys but these two jerks(obvious newbies) gang bang us without even a kiss! We finally had to leave since we couldn't fish the hole the way we wanted! Does this sh** ever stop? Maybe while offering tips here to new guys(and/or "lurkers"), the lesson should BEGIN with "first of all, show some respect to the guys who are already fishing in a spot, and go find your own"!!! 'Arch' might have the solution-night fishing!!


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

are you a center pinner?


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## bassman56 (May 22, 2005)

It really shouldn't matter if he is a pinner or not, bullying people out of the hole they are fishing is unacceptable whichever way you look at it.


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

bassman56 said:


> It really shouldn't matter if he is a pinner or not,


I'm not going to get into this, because it WOULD get ugly. but it DOES matter. there's a reason why I fish away from crowds, if I didnt, I'd spend half my day cutting the lines of pinners.


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

I am a pinner, and just because I can drift further than what I can actually see my float, and even effectivley set the hook I don't. 

You all know the steelhead dance that we do when fishing with multiple people in a hole. One casts, then the next, then the next, and so on and so forth. Fish the hole, reel in, rinse and repeat.

There are some very considerate pinners out there. I have fished holes along side of fly guys and no problems. I have fished holes along side spey guys and no problems.

A spin fishing guy can drift as far as a pinner, he just has to open his bail. So this isn't just a pinner thing, it is a courtesy thing.

Heck I just enjoy watching others catch them as much as I do, so when someone hooks up and I am standing next to them, I don't even fish, I watch him battle the fish. I also reserve his spot when he is done landing his fish, because plenty of guys try to sneak in and take the guys spot.

-KSU


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

KSUFLASH said:


> A spin fishing guy can drift as far as a pinner, he just has to open his bail. So this isn't just a pinner thing, it is a courtesy thing.
> 
> -KSU


its a culture thing. pinners are pretty much known for long drifts. standing at the heads of a pool and drifting to the end.


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## steelie4u (Mar 18, 2009)

Patricio said:


> its a culture thing. pinners are pretty much known for long drifts. standing at the heads of a pool and drifting to the end.




you shouldnt sterotype any style of fishing, its like saying all fly guys are snaggers, that just a stupid thought, i am a pinner and yes we do long drifts on occasion but not when fishing around others, everyone knows pinners need to be ahead of their target area, so why then do guys who see them there come stand 4 feet from them and begin to cast right in front of them? If the guy with the pin was there at fist then give respect and ask to fish there, i do it all the time and met some really cool people, people would be surprised at how receptive others are when being asked and all can share a hole as long as they are using courtesy, no one style of fishing is better than the other its all personal preference but respect and common sense is lacking from alot, its all about enjoying the time spent fishing and catching a few fish is a bonus.


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## horiaalmasan (May 20, 2006)

My opinion is that this isn't about the style of fishing. These people are the ones who cut you off on the highway, take "your" parking spot (that you were waiting for), and so on. This is more about education than anything. More and more some believe that by being rude they get ahead of others. More and more (even our kids) get educated to be (way to) competitive. Maybe this has something to do with it. The only way to fix it is to educate them. And this is why this forum is so powerful: because it educates.
HA


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## Sgaindubh (Jul 11, 2009)

What are pinners, fly guys and spey guys?


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## RiverRunner88 (Jun 15, 2006)

unfortunately your going to have that..i cant tell you how many time thats probably happened to us all..i will never fish in crowds but i do alotta walkin to avoid em


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## mhcarl1965 (Jan 24, 2008)

I thought the bennifit of pinning was to make LONG, as drag free drifts as possible. If not that, then why pinn?


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

When you hookup on a fish with a pin, there is no drag system. It is only you and the fish. You have to palm the reel to put drag on the spool. This is why I use the pin.


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

10.5 Ft. noodle-but this hole was only 25-30 yds long so it was really not relative! The big-bobber was casting in front of my drifts and looking at me from across the river with this dumb question mark look on his face. Not sure if he was thinking will I say something, pull out a CCW, or what. That bothered me the most(the dumb look)!


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## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

Pinning is the ultimate in drifting presentation from the middle to the bottom of the water column IMO. For me, and I have tried it all, there is no better way to present an offering in flowing water. However, none of it comes over night...I know some who think just because they go out and buy a centerpin outfit, they can easily begin slamming fish. On the contrary! The outfit is just a mere tool...The operator must know how to use his tool properly(no pun intended ) in order to complete the method effectively. Everything from rigging, gear set-up, positioning and selecting the right conditions to fish are important; but also more importantly is learning the right match-up to the specific conditons of the stream. What worked yesterday may not necessarily work today; what worked on stream A may not work the same on stream B. There is no better way to learn all this than personal experimentation or, if you're fortunate enough, to fish with and observe an experienced pinner. Like true fly fishing, centerpinning is an art. Finally, when you get the method down to the point of consistantly catching fish; you can now thoroughly enjoy and begin to appreciate the RUSH of the fight on a pin!


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## flylogicsteelhead (Oct 4, 2006)

I'll piggyback a report from the Chagrin on the same day the 20th. Took the misses down to the water after she hit a deer on her morning commute, she's ok-deer and car not. Found a nice pool holding fish and pulled a nice 30.5" 11lbs 13oz male after about 20 min or so on a hackleflash minnow. Drifted the same section of water for another hour with no success, pulled my float off and start tight lining with small stripping bursts of 3-4" and hooked up again on my third cast that way-hands down my favorite presentation. I let her fight the fish but she lost it after 5 min or so, she let the rod tip down. So two hours of fishing, 2 nice fish all on a size 8 hackleflash. Couldn't beat the weather.


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## bassman56 (May 22, 2005)

I am sure there is pinners out there who are disrespectful but there is also flyfishers and spin fisherman who do the same thing. You can't just put the blame on the guys with the centerpins, Ive fished holes with guys with them and hell i had fun just watching them fight the fish. One guy was nice enough to let me fight a fish on his rod and man what a rush that was. It got me hooked and i will be buying setup this week for my self.


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## ryosapien (Jul 5, 2008)

Most steelheaders don't care if you fish a hole with them you just have to keep give them space. The lesson though is that don't monopolize the best spot of a hole for hours. Catch a few fish and then let others have a chance. I will invite people downstream to come enjoy a spot if i am catching alot of fish and they aren't catching any. It's all about fun. That said there are plenty of holes that the park and fish type don't ever go to and rarely is this a problem.


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## master of steel (Oct 12, 2008)

If your fishing in a popular section during the warmer time of the season, then this is what you'll expect. Pissing and moaning about on here isn't going to change thing. 

The best advice I can give you is walk farther and fish more rivers. I mostly fish on weekends and I can always find a spot to fish in peace and quiet.


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## flylogicsteelhead (Oct 4, 2006)

Reports.....please who caught what, with what, where. I give my reports anyone else have any success. I believe the lounge area is for general discussion- I may be mistaken.

WE all know how to respect fisherman and the water. Everyone I have ever met off of the site has been a class act so reminding us how to fish with the etiquette we already display speaks redundency. 

BTW we have all had to fish next to that guy. I stood next to a guy on the Nut who left every 15min to get a drink out of his car. It sucks being next to someone but tell them how you feel or leave.


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## archman (Apr 30, 2004)

How about we get back to his original rant  If you are fishing popular areas, this will happen. It happens everywhere, but more often at the popular holes that are easily accessible because the guys who don't want to walk are typically the ones who will do this to you. To answer your question, no, this will never stop. Unfortunately, you will have to do some walking (or like you said, night fishing) to really get away. Most guys on the rivers will respect your space, but whenever something like this happens it seems to outweigh the good guys.


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## smittyipa (Dec 14, 2008)

I am definitely a newbie to steelhead fishing and was thinking of asking for a river fishing ettiquete post from some of you more experienced guys. I am always so worried about spooking someone's hole I just try to keep walking until I find an empty one(which meant that I walked way longer than I fished on my last outing). That being said, it seems like common sense to the veterans but some people just need to be told "the rules". I have been to the Grand and the Chagrin once this season and left extremely frustrated because I couldn't find a good hole to fish that wasn't occupied and I just can't bring myself to jump in with people. 

Someone said that we all know the steelhead dance and then explained it a little. This reminds me a lot of tuna fishing in southern california and the vets complaining about new guys who didn't know how to do the tuna shuffle. Everyone knows it is tough when you first start out at something, especially if you don't have someone experienced teaching you.

I am sorry this is a little long but I guess I felt a little empathy for the newbies with the dumb looks on their faces because that was just like me, I just didn't make the mistake of crowding anyone.

On a side note, if any of you guys wouldn't mind sending me a pm about a "general" area or trib where I could find some spots that aren't crowded I would really appreciate it. I am definitely not afraid of a long walk and would far prefer that over getting in other people's way. Thanks!


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

The best thing to do(IMO) is to observe the guy(s) fishing the hole and if they seem not to be using the complete run, ask them if they'd mind if you fished below(or above) where they seem to be casting. I think you are better off to try to open lines of communication rather than just jumping in and start casting. If they indicate you are not welcome to fish with them, keep walking, and/or fishing unproductive waters until you find something better. Some of the more experienced sticks on here may have better suggestions for you.


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

The Dance:

Ok so you walk up to a hole and it has people in it. What do you do? Well obviously first you ask if the person minds if you stand above or below them.

More often then not you will get permission and there won't be an issue. If by chance they say no, then just move on, but don't be affraid to ask. I have met so many OGF'ers on the water and never even knew it because after we began talking the converstation came up about the website. Then you have a fishing buddy for life.

Ok so if you have 5 guys lined up in a hole...

The dance is like train cars connected together. If you are standing 15-20' apart from each other on the river, then your floats in the water should be about that distance apart.

When the first guy down stream casts up river, the 2nd guy down stream casts about 20' above that, and the 3rd guy down stream casts 20' above that, and so on and so forth until the guy at the head of the pool casts.

When the last guy down stream begins to reel in, then the second guy down stream should start as well, and then on up the line.

Repeat the dance..

Guy down stream casts, then the next, then the next, all the way up to the guy at the head of the pool.

What is not proper ettiquate is to cast in front of a guys float if you are in fact all tucked into a small hole or run.

If you are fishing the Chagrin Soccer fields, that stretch can hold 15 guys easy...but if there are only 5 guys, all spread out, then you all have your own little sections and can cast when you want.

If you are fishing spots around Chagrin River Park, those holes are smaller and maybe only 5 guys can fish the hole all together. Thats when the dance should occur.

If someone gets a fish on, it is courteous to pull your line from the water and enjoy the show until such time that either the guy lands the fish, or the fish has run down river far enough as to not likely come back up and snag into your line.

When it gets tricky is when you have a fly guy and a centerpin guy fishing the same holes. The pinner can drift a long way, so he should be positioned furthest to the end of the line, if in fact he wishes to drift as far as the eye can see. 

Hope some of my rablings help.

Since I didn't coordinate a K.I.S.S event this year at Fairport, maybe an onstream seminar/demonstration is in order for those that are new to the sport.

I am game if anyone else is game to learn.

-KSU


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

How about dogs. How do people feel about dogs. I take my dog fishing. Normally he's fine, I leave him at home if I'm going to a place with crowds. There was an incident....


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## KSUFLASH (Apr 14, 2004)

Only bring hot chicks!!!!

haha!!! 

-KSU


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## Scot (Apr 18, 2006)

Who wants to deal with women out on the water? Do YOU want to hear them complaining about being cold and wet? I sure don't!

That is, of course, unless they are good looking and swinging a pole! And I don't mean swinging ON a pole...Love to see women who fish! We need a lot more of that around here! Might bring some young guys into the mix.

 Scot


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## c. j. stone (Sep 24, 2006)

KSUFLASH said:


> The Dance:
> "Ok so if you have 5 guys lined up in a hole...
> The dance is like train cars connected together. If you are standing 15-20' apart from each other on the river, then your floats in the water should be about that distance apart.
> 
> ...


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## Golden1 (Jun 27, 2009)

10/24----Well I had the same trouble today on the Chagrin, sort of,, got a good one on and had to chase it downstream,, needless to say 3 people were about a hundred yards upstream from me and by the time I landed the 7 pounder they literally ran to the spot I hoked it and jumped right in,,, three clowns with big bobber throwing spinning rods,,true fisherman,, NOT,,, very unsportsman like and hopefully their bobber will never go down.


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## ryosapien (Jul 5, 2008)

wow those guys were just plain rude golden... unbelievable. In any case no fish is worth a fight so you did the right thing just let it be man karma is a b%*ch


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## AkronCATS (Nov 5, 2008)

I am not a steelhead guy but if a guy crowds you, you could always just cross his line. After a few times retying he may move along, if not you would probably get some amusement out of watching him get upset


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Thats why I rarely fish Ohio for steelhead anymore, and when I do I go to NY and fish my fave river that I see more boats then ppl..lol.. Good luck gents its just gonna get worse Springs coming ..lol..


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## flylogicsteelhead (Oct 4, 2006)

I'll still say after fishing in PA, Ohio is like Wyoming when it comes to being crowded.


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