# Ice Breaking



## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

FYI--for those that didnt know the CG was breaking ice last week way out North so keep in mind there is room for the ice to move! Not sure why they dont put this on the news or post it somewhere.:C


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## hearttxp (Dec 21, 2004)

Yes heard a ship went to coal docks in Sandusky and another up to Toeldo somewhere !!


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## Double J (Jan 7, 2009)

B Thomas said:


> FYI--for those that didnt know the CG was breaking ice last week way out North so keep in mind there is room for the ice to move! Not sure why they dont put this on the news or post it somewhere.:C


cuz they could care less to post it.


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## rutnut245 (Jan 18, 2009)

They don't mention it so uninformed or unfortunate ice fisherman can look like fools and the sheriff can sound like an expert when he goes off on one of his rants.If there is no commerce moving,why bust it up.Then they want to charge the rescued fisherman.That's like a guy that owns a tire store throwing nail's on the street in front of his shop.


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## ErieGoldSportfishing (Feb 5, 2009)

rutnut245 said:


> They don't mention it so uninformed or unfortunate ice fisherman can look like fools and the sheriff can sound like an expert when he goes off on one of his rants.If there is no commerce moving,why bust it up.Then they want to charge the rescued fisherman.That's like a guy that owns a tire store throwing nail's on the street in front of his shop.


I'd like to see what the annual costs are for ice breaking operations on Lake Erie. The claim that moving freight by boat is cheaper than shipping by rail or trucks is only true if you ignore the price of ice breaking operations and a proportional share of channel dredging, locks and dams, etc. Because freight companies don't have to foot the bill for those operations outside of their corporate taxes, the argument could be made that the marine shipping industry is heavily subsidized. If that is what it takes to keep commerce moving, why not subsidize the railroad or trucking industries instead? The amount of conflict between users would be almost eliminated which is the biggest problem I have with ice breaking operations on Lake Erie. Basically the government is spending tax dollars to clear the way for one user group to make money off a public resource while at the same time making it impossible or very risky for another group (ice fishermen) to take advantage of the same resource. Essentially it "picks sides" on who gets to use the lake in the winter time. 

I'm all for keeping commerce moving, especially in the current economy. But as I pointed out before, there are land based modes of shipping that if expanded would give a much bigger shot in the arm to the economy. If folks could get jobs warehousing, materials handling, drivers, maintanence, road and rail construction/repair, oil refining, etc. it would generate income tax and reduce the numbers on unemployment. 

With all that said, at the very least the CG should be required to report ice breaking operations in a public forum BEFORE they take place for obvious reasons.


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## eyecatchum2 (Mar 30, 2010)

And the CG brought down another icebreaker to Cleveland this year so now they will have two in operation. Should make for some fun ice fishing - and interesting news stories.


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## 926bill (Aug 15, 2009)

Bravo, Go Busckeyes 85. You said it all!


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## rutnut245 (Jan 18, 2009)

Very well put BUCKEYES85.


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## donkey (Aug 28, 2004)

Blame it on George!This is what he does for a living now.Give him a call and maybe he will give you an ice report.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

this might answer some questions. shipping does keep over 1 million employed in ohio as well as using less oil then rail or truck and less accidents as well.

http://www.d9.uscgnews.com/go/doc/443/115604/

also-

http://www.marinelink.com/news/breaking-guard-great336487.aspx


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## Sharp Charge (Jun 24, 2009)

Eh, they do, but you have to look for it a little. 

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=lnmDistrict&region=9

http://www.mmdnewswire.com/coast-guard-icebreaking-fleet-works-hard-to-maintain-commerce-17604.html

http://www.northlandsnewscenter.com...Starts-Ice-Breaking-Operations-111861194.html

Also: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNHLHYiYAv0kZLOB3Vo-MZ4cS_bspw&cad=rja

Ninth Coast Guard District Policy: The following policies apply to the Ninth Coast Guard District only:
(1) The Great Lakes navigation season ends January 15 of each year. This does not preclude a short-term extension of the navigation season to accommodate a regional economic crisis, emergency navigational problems, or other exigent circumstances, such as search and rescue operations. This section does not preclude necessary navigation assistance provided by the Coast Guard to commercial vessels and ferries in interlake trade that do not transit the Sault Ste. Marie locks.


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## ErieEye (Jul 16, 2007)

Where do these ice breakers open the channels at? Is it between catawba and South Bass, North Bass and Pelee island or is it between Pelee and Pt. Pelee. Thanks


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## ErieGoldSportfishing (Feb 5, 2009)

boatnut said:


> this might answer some questions. shipping does keep over 1 million employed in ohio as well as using less oil then rail or truck and less accidents as well.
> 
> http://www.d9.uscgnews.com/go/doc/443/115604/
> 
> ...


Boatnut thanks for those links. That is interesting information that is not arguable. It doesn't change my opinion that one user group of a public resourse is being shafted to benefit another, especially when we have to spend taxpayer money on the latter. Look at the numbers below.

I googled USCGC Mackinaw and found a web page with a USCG aquisition directorate that has the specs and some general costs of operations.

http://www.uscg.mil/acquisition/programs/pdf/glibfactsheet.pdf

According to that report, costs of ice breaking in the Great Lakes is $49 to $78 million annually to make sure $800 million worth of winter time cargo (that was the estimate in 2005 which was one of the mildest winters on record) gets delivered. That cost equates to roughly 6 to 10% of the value of the cargo. I don't know for sure but would guess rough winters see a reduction in tons shipped. 

At the highest cost ($78 million) and highest total hrs (1300) of ice breaking operations, it costs us taxpayers about $60,000/hour to keep shipping lanes open in the Great Lakes. Think about that!

On a lighter note, I had to laugh at the paragraph in the "status" section of the report that said the Mackinaw assisted in the ice rescue (of Sheriff Bratton infamy) in Feb of 2009.


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## fishingful (Apr 5, 2004)

I saw cracks open from 3-6 inches this weekend.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

GoBuckeyes85 said:


> Boatnut thanks for those links. That is interesting information that is not arguable. It doesn't change my opinion that one user group of a public resourse is being shafted to benefit another, especially when we have to spend taxpayer money on the latter. Look at the numbers below.
> 
> I googled USCGC Mackinaw and found a web page with a USCG aquisition directorate that has the specs and some general costs of operations.
> 
> ...


I understand your frustration about the expense to taxpayers. Inland marine shipping has a long history. Locks/dams were built eon's ago. With our country fighting a world war, inland shipping was the fastest and most economical way to go, hence it has a long history. 

If you factor in the amount of heavy trucks it would take to replace maritime shipping though, what impact would that have on our already deteriorating highways/bridges? Also , add in possibly more accidents/loss of life, more fuel burned , added cost to goods etc. 

I guess I'll go ahead and be the whipping boy here, but to "ban" ice breakers and bring to a halt, shipping of millions of tons of goods, so a few hundred ice fisherman can enjoy safer ice, makes no sense to me. I fish near the shipping channel up north a lot and I routinely see dozens of freighters going by. That's a lotta semi's/rail cars.


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## Airwave(OH) (Mar 1, 2010)

Whip Whip Whip Whip Whip...lol


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## ErieGoldSportfishing (Feb 5, 2009)

Boatnut everything you say is absolutely accurate. There is a long history of shipping in the Great Lakes that peaked during WWII because of the demand of ore, coal, etc. to feed the war effort. But present day we are not in a war of the same magnitude as WWII that takes every man and woman available to keep up with the demand of keeping our boys and the allies supplied. There was no such thing as double digit unemployment or or factories closing down back then because every factory and every person that wasn't overseas fighting were needed to get it done. 

If running 5 freighters a day up the Maumee was a matter of national security, I would have a completely different opinion. But I cross the river on a regular basis and occasional broken ice tells me a boat comes in maybe once every week or 2 at the most during winter. According to one of the reports, only 16% of the annual frieght is shipped during the 3-4 months that require ice breaking operations. As a businessman, it wouldn't take long to figure out an alternative if the additional cost of shipping came out of my pocket instead of the government's. From a purely economic standpoint, and increase in land based trasportation would give the Great Lakes region a huge shot in the arm. 

One more comment that falls under the "adding fuel to the fire" category: Some of the most significant economic contributions the marine shipping industry has brought to the Great Lakes are zebra and quagga mussels, white perch, ruffe, gobies, etc. Asian carp could be the next.

Here's a cool video from the old days.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

> If running 5 freighters a day up the Maumee was a matter of national security, I would have a completely different opinion. But I cross the river on a regular basis and occasional broken ice tells me a boat comes in maybe once every week or 2 at the most during winter.


There have been several in and out over the past week. In fact, one was sitting down there this morning..just downstream of the new bridge.


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## wanderin_eyes (Jan 14, 2009)

Mike aka "whipping boy" lol
I have one question ok two. How wide is the area they are breaking and is there good fishing in the area.? I may go trolling.


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## boatnut (Nov 22, 2006)

wanderin_eyes said:


> Mike aka "whipping boy" lol
> I have one question ok two. How wide is the area they are breaking and is there good fishing in the area.? I may go trolling.


got your canuk license? if so, then we can talk, LOL


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## wanderin_eyes (Jan 14, 2009)

Next year then. They need to make me a path and turn around area this year


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## tincup111 (Jan 21, 2011)

donkey said:


> Blame it on George!This is what he does for a living now.Give him a call and maybe he will give you an ice report.


really ? what kind of person names himself donkey?
U know george ???? or u just BS'n


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## CaptJoe (Jan 20, 2009)

tincup111 said:


> really ? what kind of person names himself donkey?
> U know george ???? or u just BS'n


easy now tincup. walleye give up and put out white flags just by speaking the name donkey and yes many of us know who George is. Don't you know he's famous

Steve, if they clear a path I'll follow you out, lol.


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## wanderin_eyes (Jan 14, 2009)

Thompson240 said:


> easy now tincup. walleye give up and put out white flags just by speaking the name donkey and yes many of us know who George is. Don't you know he's famous
> 
> Steve, if they clear a path I'll follow you out, lol.


Sounds good they just need to make sure we have enough room to pass each other and turn around.


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## tincup111 (Jan 21, 2011)

Lol...
Alright enlighten me... Who is this famous George guy and his Donkey.
Or is "Donkey" George ??? and why is he breaking up all that beautiful ice ???


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## flylogicsteelhead (Oct 4, 2006)

More like infamous. Stay on this site long enough and you'll find out. I believe there are a few youtube videos from donkey as well.


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## tincup111 (Jan 21, 2011)

any links ?????? Whats his Name ?


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## CaptJoe (Jan 20, 2009)

here you go grasshopper


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## wanderin_eyes (Jan 14, 2009)

I remember that day. That was the Sat. of Hetfest. I got up frozen and hoping to get out and the wind and look of the water put the boat back on the trailer then went to Happy hooker and spent money. Still a great cook out with good friends that night


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

tincup111 said:


> Lol...
> Alright enlighten me... Who is this famous George guy and his Donkey.
> Or is "Donkey" George ??? and why is he breaking up all that beautiful ice ???


Who breaks the Ice? The Coast Guard. Therefore if George breaks ice, He must be in the Coast Guard. Q.E.D.


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## wanderin_eyes (Jan 14, 2009)

George is in the Coast Guard. Donkey is some one totally diffrent. Search Donkey. All you can find is he fishes in foggy and dark spot. Zoro. lol


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## flylogicsteelhead (Oct 4, 2006)

Thompson240 said:


> here you go grasshopper
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> I was on that voyage and it wasn't fun, for the record!!!


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## wanderin_eyes (Jan 14, 2009)

flylogicsteelhead said:


> Thompson240 said:
> 
> 
> > here you go grasshopper
> ...


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

All three freighters (including the big red one) have been tied up in the river since last Thursday. Still there today...doesn't look like they are going anywhere soon. Iced in...


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