# Vermillion, worth the ride?



## JoyOfFishing (Oct 3, 2012)

After Andrew's football game in the morning we went to Vermillion in hopes to slam'em. Got to the ramp at 12:30 and forgot the Boat Key. My lovely supporting wife met me half way and we were back to the ramp by 1:30ish. after a stop at McD's ofcourse. Then the long boat ride North of the dump to the trolling city on the water. 

Pulled the one in the picture in short order on RR, pink lemonade 55 back. pulled another from a White Bass tornado when we headed towards the gulls feeding on the surface every line went off w/ the largest white bass me or my father have ever seen. That swimmer may have been on there a while, Puple RR 90 back. 

Anyway the only thing I learned after 4 hours on the water is I am clearly lost out there. This has been a theme for me. seems like everyone was doing well, from what I heard on the radio and this Blog (on Saturday). Even though I kept hearing on the radio that no one could get the deep marks to go, I couldn't abandon the dipsy at the bottom. And, I was unable to abandon the marks I was getting between 25 & 36 feet. Even though I have no idea what the marks are since my GPS / Fish finder (Garmin) stinks as a fish finder! I think? I should have pulled all my gear to 28' to 40' back w/ 2oz, according to the radio, instead of being all over the place? increasing my odds? Lack of commitment on my part and a need for fish finder upgrades (any suggestions?).

Well, regardless, successful trip based on the smile above. What a Trooper! seven hours in the car / boat ride / & trolling and he said "he didn't feel that well" only 4 times! Even though he never gets sick on the water he knows the best way to get off the water from watching other's get sick on my boat, how creative they are! :T


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## JoyOfFishing (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh, and the best part, at the ramp I asked the guy who takes the money how the walleye fishing was going and he says to me "tough going for those that don't know what they are doing. The guys that know what they are doing are slaying them. Which one are you?" I just looked at him, unsure.


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## steelneyes2 (Jul 19, 2011)

Any fishing trip that ends safely at the dock is a good one, or so they say. As far as the technical nature of changing programs and fishing the radio, sometimes its best to turn it off if you have already caught a fish. All of us have had pretty good days doing our own thing. Also sticking to one thing you know is working and having enough lines repeating it to tweak it tends to outfish one line here one line there. 
I have a friend who fishes often with me that also fishes on another boat. They called 12 walleyes this year out of Mentor "a better year." We agreed to take my boat on the same day they took theirs to find out if there were any fish out that way. By 10:30 AM they left frustrated as we headed for deeper water. By 12:30 we had put together 6 out of 8 walleyes including an 11.4 lb fish. 
The difference came in running a program instead of a bunch of lines. We ran 6 inlines with 2 and 3 ounce weights, switching to all 3 ounce after a double. They ran 1 downrigger, 1 dipsey, 1 spinner on a jet and one reefrunner. 
My apologies for long winded reply but the point would be mixing and matching can be confusing. We skunked out of Huron on Friday mosty by heading NW instead of NE. But additionally I broke my own rule. Tried cranks on one side and spinners on the other and really screwed it up by throwing 2 downriggers into the mix down low. Confidence dropped to zero after an hour and with no certain search pattern we were doomed to a rough boat ride for nothing. 
There are no doubt many who can and do outfish me with one hand tied behind their back, but they are all consistant in their programs and approaches. They also search methodically when looking for fish and don't find them by accident. 
BTW a hidden key on the boat or a spare on the car keys has saved my behind numerous times, even once all the way down in KY.


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## JoyOfFishing (Oct 3, 2012)

Thanks. very helpful. I've been working on the "extra" key for some kind but even special Key shops can't replicate it. I'm going to have to either go to the MFG or put a new ignition in. Boat only came w/ one key! 

I agree on the radio but I don't know enough to turn it off and I'm, unfortunately, "all about the info". I try and gather what I can from here, ODNR, other sources, and "the Radio". to put an attack plan. I was starting to figure out for myself that pulling a bunch of line is NOT a program. You confirmed it. 

I just think I am going to have to get a good fish finder. I can't "find" fish on a graph that blanks out at 4 / 5 mph. I hear most of you guys have graphs to locate fish at 20 mph ! ? !. Unless there are other methods in "finding" fish that I am missing........ 

Sorry to be long winded and soooo inquisitive, But, Hey look at the little guy in that picture! doesn't he deserve to limit out too?


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## Slimshady1 (Jun 28, 2013)

Yes, having a quality fish-finder & GPS with mapping is critical, IMO. You need to be able to search for them at cruising speeds and slow down when you start marking fish, to get a better look. Example, earlier this year, I went out of Leamington, with a plan to run 15 miles out by Pelee Island (CAN side). On the way out, about 3 miles from the launch, I noticed that the screen was full of marks. I had no intention of stopping there, however, after seeing the marks, I had to stop and check it out. The screen was as full of marks as I have ever seen it. We decided to give it a shot. Within 30 minutes we had 10 fish in the box and could barely get more than 2 lines in the water at any one time. It was crazy. After a while we went searching for some bigger fish, however, we could have easily caught 50+ had we stayed. I would not have found those fish without the ability to see them at higher speeds.

BTW, it could just be a settings thing on your unit. Check your ping speed to make sure you have it on the highest setting when cruising. Google "Sonar Doctor, Marking fish at higher speeds" and you will find an article about it. He tells you exactly what settings you need. You may need to switch it back when you are trolling. I have a Lowrance HDS-10 and I keep mine at 83hz most of the time, however, I switch it to 200hz when searching at higher speeds.


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## E Leigh (Jul 11, 2013)

I'm no expert, but from what I've learned the last couple years, its crucial to stay on the fish. If you catch a couple fish within half a mile of each other and then troll another mile or more without an eye, you've got to go back and work the area holding the fish and try to develop a pattern. Some days you can just make a long troll and keep catching fish, but more often they're in small active pods and you have to stay on them. On Memorial Day this year just east of Kelly's, we caught 5 eyes in 4 passes from one spot smaller than a football field. There were a ton of boats in the area and we saw 4 or 5 more caught from the same area by other boats as well before it finally shut off. Also, if you're marking high fish, its usually a good idea to get some boards out and try to get them going. Those high fish can get really hungry. All that said, some days are tough and its hard to get any kind of pattern going. You just have to keep grinding and trying things until you (hopefully) find something that works. Finally, pay attention to the reports from the guys who catch a lot of fish consistently and try to read between the lines. There's a lot if information in there besides what color blade and how long the leads are. 


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## steelneyes2 (Jul 19, 2011)

Yes the young one deserves a limit too, I took a friends nephew out on an inland lake over July 4th, he had been there all week and hadn't caught anything yet. Turned what was going to be a serious afternoon into the most fun afternoon possible. Half a dozen bluegills later that's all they talked about when we returned for the family Labor day picnic, we're family now too after catching the grandson fish.

Anyway, lots of good info in this thread, and most of the threads on here. Of course the lake gives and takes, some days you can't do anything right, other days you can hit a fish o in the head with the net, tangle the lure in it, lift them up on the outside of it and have them flop loose in the boat instead of off the transom. The smile in the OP pic is why its worth the ride.

Sent you a PM


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

JoyOfFishing, you said "I can't "find" fish on a graph that blanks out at 4 / 5 mph." This could be due to the positioning of your transducer which is critical. It needs to be in the water and away from turbulence. 

Also Lance Valentine of walleye101.com has some CD's you can buy for a few bucks on making your sonar work for you. His material is largely geared to Lowrance HDS but there is good general info in there. Good Luck!


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## penalty box (Nov 2, 2011)

I purchased a Furuno 1870F combo unit I love the fish finder and the gps is ok. It was 1299 with a 600 watt thru the hull transducer. I chose it over the lowrance because it uses a higher wattage transducer. You can't go wrong with the lowrance as well, the 7 or 8 inch is all you need.


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## JoyOfFishing (Oct 3, 2012)

I will check the transducer location, never looked as it was on the boat when I bought it. Never occurred to me. I will also check out the sites. But, I'm fairly certain the Garmin 540s is a better GPS than finder. I knew that when I bought it because the boat already had the transducer (elec. removed by previous owner) and I was more interested in safety at the time. 

I know a guy that is an avid fisher and he had the same Garmin and he told me the same thing, the Garmin is a great GPS but he went to the Lowrance as a fish finder. 

I've been doing some homework and only been getting more confused. I currently have the dough, but time is limited on the water. I want to 'Maximize' my fishing opps as I am sure all of you do.

I've been looking at Elite 5 gen 2, Elite 7 gen 2, and HDI or HDR (?) confusing. And, they all seem to be combo GPS ? I don't need a GPS. any suggestions? Do I want side scan capability? I think I do.... my 150HP Merc. is an older (2004) 2 stroke and I am currently using trolling anchors to control speed. No Kicker, No Electronic Trolling Motor. Will an electronic trolling motor "Push" a deep V, 20' center cons. ? 4500lbs in Lake Erie waters ?


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## fishing4eyes (Oct 7, 2011)

Call the Motor manufacturer. They have a number on the key for the ignition switch 1D, 2E something like that. Order it up and you will have a spare. A lot easier then wiring a new switch. 

That smile on the boy is awesome. Congrats


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## DancinBear (Apr 21, 2009)

Blue dolphin steered me to an hds 8 and I love it. As long as the transducer is in the right spot it's great. 


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## ErieRider (Mar 23, 2010)

You can get an elite 7hdi in fish finder only model. The hdi is hybrid dual imaging. Which allows you to overlay down scan and sonar or split screens etc. If you think you want side scan you need a HDS. The hdi is only sonar and down scan and not expandable. That's a whole other debate about sidescan etc. My bro's boat has an hdi and it works very well. YouTube the elite7 hdi and the HDS units. There is plenty of demos on both. 

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## Seaturd (Apr 14, 2004)

I've got an HDS5x (no gps) and love it. Marks fish running in 20-25 mph range just fine.


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## ChinnAgain (May 28, 2012)

I had the same issue earlier this year. I angled the transducer down and up and did not help. I ended spending $70 for a new transducer and it was like a brand new fish finder. It had no obvious damage but just got weak.


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

If you put in a new transducer, run the cable as far as possible away from all your other electrical cables to prevent interference. It was a bit of a pain but I ran mine down the opposite side of my boat away from all the other cables. Also a trick that Lance Valentine put me onto is to also get a tranducer extension cable and run the extension cable from the fishfinder to the back of the boat. This way you have a tranducer connection in the back of the boat and if you ever need to replace the transducer you do not have to rerun the cable. Just coil up the extra tranducer cable and tie it up out of the way.

On the issue of side-scan/down-scan, it probably adds some fish finding capability but sonar on its own is going to give you most of what you need. Also I found there was enough to learn about how to use my sonar properly without adding the side-scan/down-scan. And I stand to be corrected on this but Lake Erie (especially east of the islands) does not have much structure to be scanned.


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## Slimshady1 (Jun 28, 2013)

Lots of comments on the fish-finders, so I will leave that alone. As far as trolling motors are concerned, I have a Terrova bow mount, 80 lb thrust (24volt), with iPilot on my boat, which is a 20 foot Lund Fisherman. I also have a 15 hp, 4 stroke Yamaha kicker. I wouldn't be without either of them for trolling. I use the Terrova for pulling spinners most of the spring and early summer, then use the kicker when trolling for Steelies. I also use the Terrova to assist with steering and slight speed changes w the kicker. When trolling just with the Terrova, I always troll down-wind (anywhere from 1.0 - 1.7 mph, depending on what is working). Otherwise, you will burn through your batteries in no-time. With a full charge, I can troll all day (8+ hours of fishing without any problem)

With the iPilot, I have the remote on a lanyard around my neck and can always see how fast we are going and make adjustments while fighting a fish, etc. It works great. You can easily bump it up and down for precise speed changes to entice bites, etc. I used to have the co-pilot (older remote), that only had 6 or 7 speeds (vs 30 with the iPilot) and it did not have a screen to show your gps speed on the remote. 

You should be able to do the same with your 20 foot CC, no problem.


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

I too have a Minnkota with autopilot and a gas kicker. I added a rudder that I fabricated to the Minnkota trolling motor and I have a removable steering hookup between the main motor and the kicker (Garlick ~$35 - has little spring loaded ball joints). I also added a servo-control on the kicker throttle. So I have all the controls at the console. I can set the autopilot on the line I want and get the speed dialed in between the autopilot & the kicker. I can also make additional steering adjustments with the main motor steering wheel (hooked to the kicker) if I am going across the wind and the Minnkota needs help to keep on-line. The autopilot has a speed cruise control but I do not use it because I found that if I was not paying attention and turned into the wind the cruise control would ramp the trolling motor up to max output and drain the batteries. I set the trolling motor to 3 1/2 and can run all day like that.

I attached a couple of photos - hope this helps...


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## JoyOfFishing (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm confused on your trolling motor pict? is this on your main outdrive?


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

Looks like my pictures confused rather than helped - sorry 

Anyway, the left hand picture is how I link my gas kicker (8hp Evinrude) to my main motor so I have some steering capability for the kicker.

The right hand picture is the bottom of (business end) of the Minnkota trolling motor which is on the front of my boat. The motor only comes with a tiny little skeg (rudder) which is fine if you are using it to move around after largemouth or some such but for all-day trolling you are using it as a bow thruster and the prop has to do all the work to keep you on-line. Adding more surface area to the skeg (rudder) really helps take some of the load off the prop & thence batteries.

Hope that is clearer.


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## Overwatchmike (Mar 16, 2013)

Just a suggestion.....

I always leave the key to the boat in my truck!

Once and I mean only once, I left headed to my cabin in Ontario and realized around Flint, MeChicken that I forgot the keys to the cabin! Needless to say I wasn't a happy camper as I turned around to retrieve them from the house.

Ever since that time I leave the boat key and cabin keys locked up in a hand gun vault inside the truck. That way I am never without the keys....

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## fishing4eyes (Oct 7, 2011)

Meerkat, Is that something you made that fits on your Trolling motor. I often said I was going to make that or is there somewhere that it can be purchased?


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

I made it myself. I googled "minnkota skeg addon" & saw what other guys had done and then drew it up and my son-in-law welded it up for me. One thing you cannot see from the pictures is that I lined it with rubber from an old inner tube. I have had it on there for 2 seasons now and never a problem. A lot of kayakers add trolling motors and they put addon rudders on them.


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## cweight (Oct 18, 2012)

While we are on the topic of trolling motors I have a couple of questions....
1. Do most of you use your bow mount trolling motors when trolling for walleyes?
2. What is the purpose of the skegg that Meerkat crafted?
Thanks,
CW


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## fishing4eyes (Oct 7, 2011)

If your trolling motor has a Auto-pilot feature then you can steer the boat with your trolling motor and push your boat with a small gas kicker. Bigger rudder means you don't have to power your tolling motor only to steer. Last longer on the water.


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

Fishin4eyes is exactly right. The skeg helps keep you on-line with less power draw on the trolling motor batteries. If the lake is flat the skeg does not do much for you but in a chop or cross wind it greatly reduces the power draw you need from your batteries to keep you on-line. Before I added the skeg, on a bumpy day I would last 3 or 4 hours. Now I can run the whole day. Also with the auto-pilot I do not need someone constantly steering the boat - I set a course and it will hold that course so I do not have to worry about steering while I am in the back fighting and netting a fish.


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## moke (Feb 25, 2008)

Joe, I'm getting my buddy to make one for my front motor. He said he can do it. Nice to know a sheet metal guy lol.


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## Meerkat (Aug 10, 2008)

Sweet! I did look for the drawing I made but could not find it. Also, not all of the trolling motors are exactly the same. But you are welcome to take some measurements and make your own drawing. Also, if I did it again I might make it a bit bigger (# of sq. inches) but you have seen it in action so you know it is good as it is. 

Joe S.


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## eyedreamn (Jun 12, 2011)

Meerkat

That trolling motor skeg idea is BRILLIANT! Looks like I have my self a project. I have notice during a turn the terrova loads up. I can hear the increase. I'm gonna have to give it a shot.


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## Bob Why (Jul 16, 2004)

Meerkat, You should put that in production and start your own business. I'm sure some of us would buy them.


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