# State says Grand Lake's fish safe to eat



## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

Ohio EPA declares Grand Lake fish are safe to eat..........toxins not an issue. Three tests have been analyzed in Nov 2010, June 2011, and Aug 2011. Link below is to a report in the Celina Daily Standard. Locals in the area have been eating the fish for 50 years. They aren't sick but some are a little crazy. 
http://www.dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php?rec_id=17403


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm Sorry, I know the local economy has suffered and the people of the area and I really feel bad for them...but I don't care what anyone says, I will not ever eat a fish from there...period...for the rest of my lifetime anyway!
Call me a "Fear Monger", ignorant, whatever, I just have a greater will to live (with no complications) than most!


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

zaraspook said:


> They aren't sick but some are a little crazy.


Yea they are! 

Intimidator, don't fear the fish at Grand Lake. There fish advisories everywhere, even on crystal clear TVA lakes and on wild ocean species, especially tuna.


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## RBoyer (Jan 7, 2012)

No one hesitates to eat the walleye on Erie but the last reports I read said the mercury content in Erie was much higher than any other body of water listed in the state including the Ohio River which for some reason people are still scared to eat the fish from!


-Ryan Boyer


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## socdad (Jul 25, 2005)

State says Grand Lake's fish safe to eat  not for me, not yet anyway ... Still too much crap in that lake for my liking.


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## trailbreaker (Oct 11, 2008)

never fished there.. nor the ohio if i happen to catch fish from either
place i'll eat what ever i catch for the longest they advised against eatting fish from the ohio now you can


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

backlashed said:


> Yea they are!
> 
> Intimidator, don't fear the fish at Grand Lake. There fish advisories everywhere, even on crystal clear TVA lakes and on wild ocean species, especially tuna.


Yes, some Lakes have advisories, my home res has a few but it "Flushes" well...but the fish in CJ have not been swimming IN POISON for 3 yrs....I have a hard time believing that POISONS and TOXINS are not in any of those fish! 
I'm Sorry, I've seen too much in my lifetime to believe this one!
Best Wishes to those who live there!


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## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

Virtually every water body in Ohio has fish consumption advisories. If you think your favorite fishing hole is clean, go to the state EPA advisory page at link below. If you find your lake/stream is advisory free, post it here. 

Only advisory for GLSM is to limit your largemouth bass intake to two meals a week. Even if I didn't practice catch and release with all my bass, zero chance I'd catch enough bass to eat it twice a week.

EPA link is http://www.epa.ohio.gov/dsw/fishadvisory/limitmeals.aspx


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## trailbreaker (Oct 11, 2008)

how in the world does Mercury,PCB,lead get into those bodies of water


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## dinkbuster1 (Oct 28, 2005)

i think i would rather eat a carp from below a sewage plant outlet on the Great Miami River than eat a fish from Grand Lake again!

last i was near that lake the water looked like the inside of a Rumpke Porta-Potty!


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

zaraspook said:


> Virtually every water body in Ohio has fish consumption advisories. If you think your favorite fishing hole is clean, go to the state EPA advisory page at link below. If you find your lake/stream is advisory free, post it here.
> 
> Only advisory for GLSM is to limit your largemouth bass intake to two meals a week. Even if I didn't practice catch and release with all my bass, zero chance I'd catch enough bass to eat it twice a week.
> 
> EPA link is http://www.epa.ohio.gov/dsw/fishadvisory/limitmeals.aspx


"Agent Orange is safe"...."no we didn't do any testing on civilians or soldiers"..."we never sold guns to the drug cartels"....."biological testing will never create SUPERBUGS"...."If we bring this Carp over it will clear clogged waterways" "This bug will kill this bug"..."Those Cute Russian Pigs will never get loose"...Those anacondas won't cause issues in FL"..."It was not for the Oil"...."Fish in GLSM are safe to eat"! See a pattern!!!LOL "Money Talks and BS Walks"!


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## young-gun-fisher (Jan 19, 2011)

I have personally eaten crappie from the lake and the spillway at GLSM this year and I am still kicken and never got so much as a stomach ache from it..... but then again, the more fish the all of you throw back, the more there are for me to catch, so keep on throwing back guys!!!!


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

young-gun-fisher said:


> I have personally eaten crappie from the lake and the spillway at GLSM this year and I am still kicken and never got so much as a stomach ache from it..... but then again, the more fish the all of you throw back, the more there are for me to catch, so keep on throwing back guys!!!!


Are you that glowing object I can see South of Springfield???LOL


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## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

If you make it thru the 2nd paragraph, this might make sense....
Mercury and PCB's were largely byproducts of industry from the 1920's into the 70's. Both contaminants make their way into the flesh of fish. Both can become toxins to human flesh if consumed in high enough quantities. The EPA's advisories try to provide guidelines for acceptable exposure.

The algae problems at Grand Lake, and Lake Erie for that matter, are different from mercury and pcb's. Algae occurs naturally worldwide. The most common algae strain at Grand Lake thrives on phosphorus. Phosphorus is abundant in animal manure and Grand Lake is largely supplied by water flowing thru livestock farms. Living algae isn't nasty/dangerous but when it dies, it can create microcystins which can be toxic to humans. If heavy blooms of algae all die simultaneously, microcystin levels in the water will elevate. Unlike mercury and pcb's, microcystins are not found to invade fish flesh. The GLSM toxins you read about are not found in the flesh of fish swimming there. Potato chips probably have as much toxin from microcystins as do GLSM fish. You won't get much gold out of eating GLSM fish either........it's not in the flesh of the fish.


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## BIGTCAT'N (Apr 12, 2006)

You guys go 1st and I'll check on you in a year and see how yer doin! LOL


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## chrsvic (Apr 20, 2005)

From an overall health perspective, im better off eating GLSM fish than McDonald's hamburgers. Cholesterol to clog the arteries, and the fat feeds cancer cells. (Unfortunately for me, i like fish best fried in peanut oil.)

Interesting show this weekend about all the plastic trash in the ocean - the fish eat the plastic, but we dont know yet what chemicals end up in the fish we eat, further along the food chain.

I'm hoping less manure was spread this winter than last. At least in Miami County, the fields apparently didnt freeze hard enough for farmers to get out and spread it.


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

zaraspook said:


> If you make it thru the 2nd paragraph, this might make sense....
> Mercury and PCB's were largely byproducts of industry from the 1920's into the 70's. Both contaminants make their way into the flesh of fish. Both can become toxins to human flesh if consumed in high enough quantities. The EPA's advisories try to provide guidelines for acceptable exposure.
> 
> The algae problems at Grand Lake, and Lake Erie for that matter, are different from mercury and pcb's. Algae occurs naturally worldwide. The most common algae strain at Grand Lake thrives on phosphorus. Phosphorus is abundant in animal manure and Grand Lake is largely supplied by water flowing thru livestock farms. Living algae isn't nasty/dangerous but when it dies, it can create microcystins which can be toxic to humans. If heavy blooms of algae all die simultaneously, microcystin levels in the water will elevate. Unlike mercury and pcb's, microcystins are not found to invade fish flesh. The GLSM toxins you read about are not found in the flesh of fish swimming there. Potato chips probably have as much toxin from microcystins as do GLSM fish. You won't get much gold out of eating GLSM fish either........it's not in the flesh of the fish.


I'm sorry!
wikipedia.org Microcystin
Microcystins,are cyantoxins which are toxic to plants and animals including humans...their hepatotoxicity causes serious damage to the liver. Once injested it travels to the liver via the bile acid transport system, WHERE MOST IS STORED. Some remains in the BLOOD SYSTEM and MAY CONTAMINATE TISSUE. It disrupts cellular processes.

wikipedia.org Microcystin_LR
Cyanotoxin produced by Blue/Green Algae are some of the most powerful natural poisons known and THEY CAN ACCUMULATE in animals such as fish and shellfish.

I can keep going also!


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Know that many natural bays and esquiries periodically "bloom" with red algae organisms in the trillons, basically briefly suffering a biological hyperpopulation explosion followed immediately by an extreme dieoff, literally staining the waters red, forcing even alligators to briefly flee. They will hopefully be briefer and less frequent as the satellite photos show the suggested containment efforts to minimize the runoff "animal by- product even getting into the watershead. And assuming the wetland projects are diligentlly pursued that alone will significantly reduce any catastrophic outbreaks. I will personally admit the alum spraying had a POWERFUL effect; my hat is honestly off to them! Assuming the dredge is roaring shortly, the balance is already shifting...


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

zaraspook said:


> Virtually every water body in Ohio has fish consumption advisories. If you think your favorite fishing hole is clean, go to .....



There are limits to the amount of canned salmon and tuna fish you should eat as well. 

_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


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## Intimidator (Nov 25, 2008)

Lowell H Turner said:


> Know that many natural bays and esquiries periodically "bloom" with red algae organisms in the trillons, basically briefly suffering a biological hyperpopulation explosion followed immediately by an extreme dieoff, literally staining the waters red, forcing even alligators to briefly flee. They will hopefully be briefer and less frequent as the satellite photos show the suggested containment efforts to minimize the runoff "animal by- product even getting into the watershead. And assuming the wetland projects are diligentlly pursued that alone will significantly reduce any catastrophic outbreaks. I will personally admit the alum spraying had a POWERFUL effect; my hat is honestly off to them! Assuming the dredge is roaring shortly, the balance is already shifting...


I promised myself never to get on the GLSM thread...but since this is an open forum thread....

Aluminum Sulfate DOES bind with phosphorous and creates Aluminum Phosphide....Oh, this is a wonderful concoction that the State dreamed up!
LOOK IT UP!
No way in heck will I ever go near that place...it is an enviromental disaster waiting to happen...you people are an experiment! GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL! Keep that positive outlook!!!


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## downtime8763 (Jun 22, 2008)

chrsvic said:


> From an overall health perspective, im better off eating GLSM fish than McDonald's hamburgers. Cholesterol to clog the arteries, and the fat feeds cancer cells. (Unfortunately for me, i like fish best fried in peanut oil.)
> 
> Interesting show this weekend about all the plastic trash in the ocean - the fish eat the plastic, but we dont know yet what chemicals end up in the fish we eat, further along the food chain.
> 
> I'm hoping less manure was spread this winter than last. At least in Miami County, the fields apparently didnt freeze hard enough for farmers to get out and spread it.


What is bad is the cattle,hogs chickens,turkeys,ect didn't stop for the winter,they kept eating and sh_ting.The manure is in pits and the ground has to dry out or freeze enough the the equipment can get on the ground to knife/spread it.I worked on a dairy farm in school and help a beef farmer now that I'm retired.It worries me as wet and worm as the winter has been when they start to pump the pits out can the knife it in or will they open the valves and let some blow on the ground(have seen this for myself). The big farms worry me the most,the bad farmers give everyone a bad name.


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## nitsud (May 22, 2010)

Intimidator said:


> Aluminum Sulfate DOES bind with phosphorous and creates Aluminum Phosphide....Oh, this is a wonderful concoction that the State dreamed up!
> LOOK IT UP!
> No way in heck will I ever go near that place...it is an enviromental disaster waiting to happen...you people are an experiment! GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL! Keep that positive outlook!!!


Come on now, everybody knows that the reaction produces aluminum phosphate, which is insoluble in water, extremely stable, and used in food. Aluminum phosphide is dangerous, but it is unstable and disassociates in water, and is not produced by alum treatments so far as I've read. Alum treatment isn't new, and has been successfully applied in a number of lakes. If you have references that say aluminum phosphide is produced in the treatment, post links and I'll read up on it, but I did look it up, and found no mention of phosphide anywhere.

The microcystin is a concern, but as the article states, there have not been any detectable levels in fish flesh other than one sample taken from a black crappie in June last year. Furthermore, there has never been a documented human death from microcystin ingestion. Plenty of instances of people getting sick, but no deaths. There is a possibility of liver damage from the ingestion of microcystin, and that's reasonably well documented, but only in cases of consumption of water that has substantial microcystin loading. A good reference for the health effects is http://oehha.ca.gov/ecotox/documents/Microcystin031209.pdf.

I'm not saying that the fish are entirely safe to eat, but parts per billion levels (1 ppb = .0000001%) of nearly any toxin are not likely to kill anyone. I'm not sure what you consider an environmental disaster, but I'd say it's already an environmental disaster, and attempts to mitigate it are a good idea. One thing is for sure. Scaring people with inaccurate information is not helpful.


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

Hey I'm pretty sure that I read it in the newspaper and seen it on the news about some guys dog that swam in the lake ended up getting sick and dying. It's been 1-2yrs since i seen the article but if there's even the slighest chance that crap is gonna grow yet again GLSM this year then I'd want no part of it if I was any of you. Screw that!!! I wouldn't even want to fish the lake if that stuff was in bloom anywhere up there. IMO there's three things they need to do.
1) They need to dredge the living ---- out of it. Need to make it deeper and I doubt they want to drain it completely and dig it.
2) Stop the run off from the farms. That could be the #1 thing to do as these thoughts are in no particular order.LOL
3) There is no third reason and if there was it'd be to see #1 and #2 above.LOL


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## backlashed (Mar 19, 2011)

If I'm thinking about the same dog, it was swimming in a matt of the alge and had it stuck on his coat. 

Mercer County agriculture is a $700 million dollar business. Tourism brings in less than $200 million. There will be no stopping the ag runoff with that imbalance! 



spfldbassguy said:


> Hey I'm pretty sure that I read it in the newspaper and seen it on the news about some guys dog that swam in the lake ended up getting sick and dying. It's been 1-2yrs since i seen the article but if there's even the slighest chance that crap is gonna grow yet again GLSM this year then I'd want no part of it if I was any of you. Screw that!!! I wouldn't even want to fish the lake if that stuff was in bloom anywhere up there. IMO there's three things they need to do.
> 1) They need to dredge the living ---- out of it. Need to make it deeper and I doubt they want to drain it completely and dig it.
> 2) Stop the run off from the farms. That could be the #1 thing to do as these thoughts are in no particular order.LOL
> 3) There is no third reason and if there was it'd be to see #1 and #2 above.LOL





_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


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## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

Intimidator........I've pasted in your 2 microcystin definitions.....wikipedia.org Microcystin
_Microcystins,are cyantoxins which are toxic to plants and animals including humans...their hepatotoxicity causes serious damage to the liver. Once injested it travels to the liver via the bile acid transport system, WHERE MOST IS STORED. Some remains in the BLOOD SYSTEM and MAY CONTAMINATE TISSUE. It disrupts cellular processes.

wikipedia.org Microcystin_LR
Cyanotoxin produced by Blue/Green Algae are some of the most powerful natural poisons known and THEY CAN ACCUMULATE in animals such as fish and shellfish._

No argument with either defintion, but your interpretation over reaches a bit. In the first "*may* contaminate" and in 2nd definition "*can* accumulate". Neither of those definitions state say the toxins *DO* accumulate. Both statements suggest it could happen. That's why the State EPA did testing and continues to test tissue samples of fish at GLSM. The EPA concluded there is no toxin in the flesh or perhaps not enough to be worried about, and issued no advisory for GLSM.

Yes toxins and other crap go into liver and organs. Most people don't eat the entrails, liver, guts, etc. EPA's goal was testing fish for consumption of the flesh. You're a CJ Brown fisherman and probably consume walleye you catch in CJ. The EPA advises that testing shows mercury in the flesh, not just in the organs, but in the flesh of CJ walleye. But EPA tells you it's OK, insufficient levels of mercury as long as you limit consumption. You're OK with that EPA advisory and I assume you choose to eat the yummy walleye flesh. I would eat walleye if I caught from CJ.

Why apply a different standard for Grand Lake? EPA says "no toxins" in flesh, yet you'll eat walleye with confirmed, but manageable mercury levels in flesh tissue? I respect your opinion and acknowledge you have no desire to fish at GLSM or consume GLSM catch. That's fine. Flesh of fish at GLSM are confirmed not to have a microcystin toxin issue. I'll concede at some future point it "may" change or "can" change, but so could mercury and pcb contamination levels of fish flesh already under EPA advisory in most Ohio waters. For the record, GLSM is under EPA advisory for mercury in the tissue of largemouth bass only......no more than 2 meals per week (same as the mercury walleye advisory at CJ). There is not an EPA fish consumption advisory at GLSM for any other species and no advisory for toxin contamination from microcystins. EPA says we can safely eat the fish.


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## trailbreaker (Oct 11, 2008)

spfldbassguy said:


> Hey I'm pretty sure that I read it in the newspaper and seen it on the news about some guys dog that swam in the lake ended up getting sick and dying. It's been 1-2yrs since i seen the article but if there's even the slighest chance that crap is gonna grow yet again GLSM this year then I'd want no part of it if I was any of you. Screw that!!! I wouldn't even want to fish the lake if that stuff was in bloom anywhere up there. IMO there's three things they need to do.
> 1) They need to dredge the living ---- out of it. Need to make it deeper and I doubt they want to drain it completely and dig it.
> 2) Stop the run off from the farms. That could be the #1 thing to do as these thoughts are in no particular order.LOL
> 3) There is no third reason and if there was it'd be to see #1 and #2 above.LOL



they need to dredge acton lake make it deeper.. i can understand why it's 10hp only i was told cause of the sail boats


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## spfldbassguy (Mar 23, 2009)

backlashed said:


> If I'm thinking about the same dog, it was swimming in a matt of the alge and had it stuck on his coat.
> 
> Mercer County agriculture is a $700 million dollar business. Tourism brings in less than $200 million. There will be no stopping the ag runoff with that imbalance!
> 
> ...


I still wouldn't want to even be around that stuff. If people truely cared about where they live then the farmers would do everything in their power to find away to drastically cut off the amount of run off GLSM receives. I know they'll probably never be able to stop it 100% but if they could get it down to say below 50% that'd be an instant help IMO. There's ways to limit it they just have to want to.


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## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

young-gun-fisher said:


> I have personally eaten crappie from the lake and the spillway at GLSM this year and I am still kicken and never got so much as a stomach ache from it..... but then again, the more fish the all of you throw back, the more there are for me to catch, so keep on throwing back guys!!!!


I'm with you young-gun........I like fishing in peace, little competition. Since the blowup in summer of 2010, the catching has been terrific. Just tallied up my crappie catch at GLSM for 2011 calendar year. I caught 693 crappies from GLSM last year, despite catching only 1 crappie in June and 1 crappie in July. Best month was November. Despite ice forever in Jan/Feb/March of 2011 and not wetting a line until the 3rd week of March, I still managed 93 crappies last March. 90% of my fishing last year was on weekends....rare for me to get any fish time during the week. This year I'm 9 ahead of last year.

Let's start a rumor to keep folks away.........:cute:


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

I have never managed to pass off any rumors that a steadily lmproving body of water suddenly had become a toxic "death trap" and that while boating and swimming were perfectly safe that even catching the fish could cause SERIOUS health effects. BUT on the other hand imagine what the fishing would be like in 4 or 5 yrs...almost a "private" lake !!! (Shouldn`t we be PMing this ?)


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## zaraspook (Jun 16, 2009)

Lowell H Turner said:


> I have never managed to pass off any rumors that a steadily lmproving body of water suddenly had become a toxic "death trap" and that while boating and swimming were perfectly safe that even catching the fish could cause SERIOUS health effects. BUT on the other hand imagine what the fishing would be like in 4 or 5 yrs...almost a "private" lake !!! (Shouldn`t we be PMing this ?)


Clever! Oooooops.....shoulda been a PM.


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