# need rod suggestions for medium swimbaits



## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

Ok going to be throwing a 5 inch swimbait on a 1/4 oz head a bunch and my current rods are not quite right. Looking for a casting rod with the right backbone to get good hooksets with a 5/0 jig hook but enough softness for long cast in open water. Not wanting to go too long, something around 7 to 7.3 would be nice. I would like to stay away from the 300+ dollar price range for now and 200 is even better. Just looking for good value. Also a comfortable grip would be nice since Im making the switch to lefty casting reels since I think I can work the bait better and more efficiently than casting right handed and palming the reel with my left hand. Its seems like I need a med heavy fast action, but which brand, well I have not bought a new casting rod in years so I dont know where to start. Also I have a BPS gift card so if its availabe there thats even better. Thanks for any input


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

I throw on a 7' med. Hvy. Fast action quantum tour edition rod. It an older model and fairly "broken in", so it has a little more flex than a newer med hvy. The trend in newer rod models seems to be stiffer and lighter. With an open jig hook, I'd say a 7'+ med power extra fast action rod would work well, and provide great casting distance.


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm with Bad Bub on the size and action of the rod. There are a lot of new ones that I've never used, but have always been a big fan of the Croix Avid blanks in that price range. 
Looking forward to hearing of your success on the larger swim baits you are making. I have a feeling that they will become more of a go to walleye bait for a lot of guys in the coming years. Especially for the fall bite. If you could somehow get them to suspend or at least sink at a slow rate without sacrificing the flexibility, you wouldn't be able to make them fast enough. Have you ever thought about adding an air bladder to the belly? Just curious as to how well that might work.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

ok so medium extra fast, interesting. the rod i have been using is an older style 7'3 gander mountain tournament pro thats a medium weight and fast action and it just does not have the tip stiffness to direct the cast so it feels like I have to do more of a lob. The bait is a pretty heavy slab of plastic and that type of lob cast is fine in open water but when I was placing it around bushes and cover It was hard to control. I would compare the total weight more to a 3/4 oz skirted jig and trailer.

I saw that avids were in that price range but with all the newer rods out there i wondered if they were now considered an older blank material that might have been replaced by something a little better.

as for the baits never tried an air bladder. 

also as far as rods. im not opposed to using a bass pro brand. anyone like any of their higher end offerings?


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## 93stratosfishnski (Aug 25, 2011)

Josh,
I love my avid i would stay away from an extra fast action as the tip has too much give.. I think a med or med heavy would be perfect in the avid. Also the new avid x has micro guides which help with casting distance but almost make it a 3 seasons rod.. I'd stick with the regular avid and no micro guides you'll be able to cast that far enough


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

yeah micro guides and cold weather would be a bad combo i was thinking. im also thinking a slighly slower action would make the rod better for other baits like red shads etc so you dont rip out the hooks as easy. But if I have to choose I want the perfect fit for this specific bait. glad to get another vote for avids.


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

Joshy,

How much do your swim baits weight by themselves? I'm going to guess in the 1/4oz. range, but depending on the design could be a bit heavier. Based on the estimate, I think you are looking for your run of the mill 1/4-3/4oz. MH power fast action worm/jig rod. There are many out there that will work well. St. Croix makes a nice blank. I have a buddy that fishes a lot of Bass Pro and Cabela's house brand rods. They do make decent rods for the money, and if you can find them on sale, all the better.

When it comes to rod blank tech., don't worry so much about the latest greatest tech. There is a lot of smoke that gets blown when it comes to marketing rods and blank materials. Ever since the competition has caught up with Gary Loomis' early offerings, the playing field has become significantly leveled. There are some great blanks out there that won't break the bank. There are a few things that have come along to make blanks a bit lighter and more efficient, but a great blank from 15 years ago is still a great blank today. In fact, I have a glass cranking rod waiting to get guides wrapped on that is on a blank likely from the '60s. It's going to make a great rod when it's said and done. The bottom line is that if you find a great price on last year's model, it's every bit as good today as it was then.

For something a bit softer, look at the heavier crankbait rods designed for deep diving cranks. They will work with those lipless cranks and handle the swim baits reasonably well. Though, personally, I like something a little faster that locks up on the hooks for single hook lures, I've never had many issues swimming grubs and the like on slower action rods.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

Thanks grub man I always appreciate your depth of rod knowledge! The plastic alone weighs about 21 grams or around 3/4 oz based on a convesion chart I just looked up. So on average the whole thing is about an ounce I guess and occasionally more if im going deeper than about 10ft I would go with a 3/8 to 1/2 oz jig. I know its heavy enough that the medium weight rod I have been using sags a good bit under the weight of it. My two spinning rods I use 95% of the time are loomis bronzebacks an I love the sensitivity, lightness and especially the comfort of the reel seat. So knowing I will be doing more with bigger baits I have been reading how important the right rod is to minimize fatigue and I know you dont want to be underpowered. I know that lots of pros are using 5-7 inch swims all the time but its hard to find out exactly what action rods they prefer when doing searches. I looked at the avids on basspro.com and they only carry the avidx with the micro guides. Im trying to burn this gift certificate in the process but Im not going to do it if a better rod is elsewhere. thanks all for the input im zeroing in on what I need for sure.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Joshy, I agree with your thinking that a medium powered rod would be too light for what you're describing. Even if you're using an open hook, that's a big bait, that you're probably going to be using a pretty heavy wire hook with. On a long cast, I don't think medium power would cut it. Medium heavy power would be the lightest I would go. And personally, unless you plan on using braid, I would probably lean more toward a heavy power rating. 

I'd also go with a fast action versus an extra fast action, if you're going with medium heavy power. Yes an extra fast action is great for quick short casts, but youi're talking about a 3/4 oz or possibly higher weight bait. IMO you'd be over powering the tip with that weight of bait, on a medium heavy power rod. If you're going with a heavy power rod then an extra fast action would probably be fine.

I'd take a look at the Phenix M1 line of rods. Particularly the MX72H. It's 7'2" long heavy power, extra fast action, rated for lures 1/2 - 1 1/4 oz, and 10 - 25# line. I've never fished the rod, so I can't say how it fishes, but I have held one in my hands. It's a nice rod. Although I will say the graphics on it are a little ...... bold, would be a good word. The rod gets a good review from Tackle Tour, which is a site I trust quite a bit when I want the skinny on a product. I've read some of their reviews on rods and other equipment that I use, and I agree with most of their reviews. 

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewphenixm1heavy.html

The rod is $178.99 at Tackle Warehouse. If you look at the rod on their web site, you'll notice the lure rating is different than the rating I quoted. The ratings I quoted are from Phenix's web site.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

thanks bassbme I will check it out for sure. I am a braid guy so with spinning gear i tend toward a slightly lighter rod to absorb the shock and not tear trebles out. Thanks again to all for the good input.


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

Okay, the weight of that plastic changes the game significantly. In terms of blank selection, you are moving away from the typical bass rod into the realm of saltwater rods. The type of blank used by tourney guys for the single swim baits is along the lines of a Batson SW967. In A-rigs, they went to blanks along the lines of the Batson Swim Bait line, or even better the Swampland T1 A-rig blank.

You are teetering right at the border of leaving the typical bass rods behind and moving into the realm of these types of rods. At BPS, the Offshore Angler Inshore Extreme rods might be worth a look. I see some with lure ratings of 3/8-2oz and 3/4-3oz. They are made from their HM 54 graphite, which isn't bad, and the price isn't bad either.

You likely could still get by with a bass rod, but you'll be looking toward rods with lure ratings of 1/4-1oz on the low end and 3/8-1 1/2 on the upper end. I think only the St. Croix Premier and Falcon BuCoo are the only spinning options at BPS in this range. You'll have a lot more options in casting rods in that range.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

ok thanks for more input grub man. Im definitely going with a casting rod and braid. I looked at the phenix rod and it looks like its right inline with what grub man suggested. I know its not a high end rod but i will be traveling and fishing out of multiple cars, boats, walking rocks and wading with it so it cant be too fragile.


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## polebender (Oct 29, 2011)

If you google "best rod to throw a 5" swimbait" there's lots of good info. Just an FYI!


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

i googled it but did not find any specific info that helped me much. guess im not as tech savy as I thought.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

I gotta agree with Joe here (grub man) as far as the suggestion of a higher lure weight rating, and therefore, a more powerful rod. I suggested the bass class rod because you mentioned possibly wanting to use other types of baits.

For strictly big 3/4 to 1 oz baits I'd want a rod rated on the high side of lure weight of at least 1 1/2 times the heaviest bait I'd be throwing, and better still, twice the weight of the heaviest bait I'd be throwing.

I think a lot of people forget or don't realize that a baits water resistance, as well as the drag of line in the water, add a lot of weight during the retrieve. Depending on the bait in use, and the length of cast, a lighter power rod could be close to fully loaded during the retrieve.

For a dedicated swimbait rod I'd be looking for something with a 1/2 - 2 oz lure weight range or higher. If you're looking for a moderate fast action then I'd up the rating even higher. Maybe even approaching 5 oz for a high side rating. Reason being, slower action rods fish less powerful.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

Ok I see what you are saying. Something more like this smallest one here maybe http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/G_Loomis_IMX_Swimbait_and_Umbrella_Rig_Casting_Rods/descpage-IMS.html

I had looked at this type of rod before but I thought it might be overkill but maybe not.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Was not looking at fishin rods at Vances in Hebron, but, they have lot of stuff on clearance and maybe you'd find a rod for decent price. I do not know if the Obetz location is having any type of clearance sale.


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## Bassbme (Mar 11, 2012)

Yeah Joshy, that smallest G Loomis rod you posted the link to would probably work perfectly. I don't want to speak for Joe, (grub man) but I think he would agree that if you've never fished two rods with the same power ratings, with one being a fast action and the other being a moderate fast or moderate action before, the difference in feel and power transfer is that of night and day. 

While such a rod is going to be a powerful rod, the moderate fast action is going to mean it's not going to feel like a broom stick. 

A rod of that type also won't be as versatile as you may have hoped you could find. But It will do the job you'e looking for it to do, as well as a few others. And I imagine it would do them quite well.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

yup not a broomstick kind of guy so now that i have a better idea of where I need to be I can start looking at what brands offer this type of rod, even though I tempted to just pull the trigger on the loomis since im partial to them anyways. Thanks for the feedback and ideas.


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## grub_man (Feb 28, 2005)

I know that type of rod seems like overkill for your typical Ohio bass, but it's the type of rod needed if you really want to load up the rod and fire a cast out there. I'm not a broomstick guy either. When I'm on the water, the majority of the time, the heaviest power rod I have in the boat is a 1/4-3/4oz worm/jig rod. It's just the nature of how I fish. If I were to start throwing bigger baits, I would carry more powerful rods.

The 5" swim baits that you are working with are right there at the cusp of where this type of rod becomes needed. If you go any larger, the swim bait rod will serve you well. If you are just tickling a little fancy to see what you can do with a bigger swim bait, then try with a heavier bass rod for a while and lob cast the lures.

That Loomis rod will likely serve you well.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

Ok thanks for all your help everyone. I took a treck to bass pro in cinci and after feeling several weights actions and brands I pulled the trigger on a rod. I ended up trying the new loomis e6x series. I went with a e6x 903c mbr. its 7'6 medium heavy, fast action. 1/4 - 3/4oz. After feeling several rods it became apparent that there was a pretty good amount of difference in actions and weight from one brand to the next and this rod just felt right. I really was very impressed with the BPS carbon lite rods. But in general their actions were lighter than other rods it seemed. They had one that was a 7'6 MH moderate action that I thought would be the one, it was rated 1/2 oz - 2oz I think. but that moderate action just felt so strange and stiff compared to what I was used to I just could not get down with it. The loomis I bought is suprisingly sesitive and on the stiff side for its rating I think. I did some homework on the e6x rods and heard they were nice and better than the gl2 which were overpriced from my estimation. the e6x loomis blank feels very similar to the old gl3 in finish and feel and may be a bit lighter, which is pretty good for the price. The rod is definitely at the low end power wise of what I need but given the fact that I will be running braid and the swimbait is not a heavy resistance bait during the retreive I felt like this was the right choice for stepping up to the next level without overshooting it. Thanks again to all for helping me weight my options! alot of good selfless people on here.

BTW! I also made the switch and got my first lefty reel. I was looking at abu garcias for the first time and I was interested in the revo sx. It lost out to the new curado 201hg. the curado had a slightly longer handle and just felt like a slightly more powerful reel. It was an ounce heavier than the revo but still a very compact dude. im about to spool it up with some seaguar smackdown 40 lb braid. Cant wait to get out and start slinging baits.


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## asterik (Apr 9, 2012)

Well I didn't read every comment but the first 4 or 5 I did. As for what rod to use is really dependent on the cover you are fishing. And the bait to a extent depending on how they fish. Almost everyone uses a MH/F for swimbaits and use them also sometimes. While on the topic of MH rods I use a 7'2" MH/XF crucial when fishing lots of grass. You need that faster action in the tip to pop the bait and rip it free to clear any grass or junk that gets hung up on it. But for the most part I have totally converted to moderate action rods for swimbaits or any bait that is constantly moving for that matter. You don't need that fast action to hook fish unless your using some garbage line with a insane amount of stretch or hooks with rolled points. Even then you should have no problem sticking fish. Everything about a slower action is beneficial. Fish engulf a bait and once they are hooked they stay that way. The only down side is trying to clear garbage off our bait since you don't have that quick snap to shake it free but it can still be done. You don't need a special rod and a cranking stick will work just fine. I use a glass cranking rod tons for swimbaits and the increased casting distance is also a major bonus. The only swimbaits I don't like a slower action for is 8" hudds and the 68's. They have a good amount of weight and make a ton of drag when pulled. I don't care what line or rod your using when it is way out there you really need to reel down and swing super hard on them and make sure it sticks. Even then it can be tuff. Not to mention its usually bigger fish that grab them and there mouths are thicker and harder to penetrate.


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## asterik (Apr 9, 2012)

To bad I didn't read your last post till I replied. It's a shame you didn't go with a moderate action. But then again not all rods feel the same and actions can vary wildly between brands. I am not personally familiar with the rod you picked but hopefully it is kinda slow. Once you switch from the norm and use a slower rod and really give it a shot it is impossible to go back. You also need to use the proper line though. Anything with very low stretch will work and even braid would be great if your into that. Personally I am a huge fan of P-Line CXX and use it for just about everything. Any super hard line will offer great sensitivity with very minimal stretch. That also means insanely terrible memory but that's nonsense and easy to fix since you should be using KVD L&L any ways and if your not you should should be.


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

Nice looking setup Joshy. Not familiar with the e6x but casting with my IMX rod is awesome. Not sure what the difference in the 2 blanks is. I'm sure you will love it.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

All Eyes said:


> Nice looking setup Joshy. Not familiar with the e6x but casting with my IMX rod is awesome. Not sure what the difference in the 2 blanks is. I'm sure you will love it.


The difference is about 100 dollars lol! Its not as nice and light as an imx, but its light enough. I know that there are better rods out there but when you walk into a store and find a rod you like its hard to put it back and have to order a mystery rod online. The e6x line has a heavier swimbait rod that is likely the best choice in that line of rods for me but bass pro does not sell it. If this rod perfrorms well it might be in my future especially if I end up fishing heavier heads in deep water more than i expect too. For now I think im set


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## Skippy (Dec 2, 2009)

Not to take this off subject.. I've been throwing those 5 inch grass pigs using a Loomis GL3 sjr843, 7foot med/heavy, fast action. With a 1/16 or 1/8 jig with a 4/0 hook, fishing with the hook exposed I have pretty good hook ups. When using the Tro/Kar 5/0 swimbait hooks I do miss some hits when I have the hook exposed but just riding along the outside of the grass pig. Hook fully exposed there's not that trouble. Know your looking for a bait caster but this set up seems to get the job done for me.
I do, at times take the core out of a rubber core sinker and crimp on those Tok/Kar hooks.


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## Dovans (Nov 15, 2011)

Once you get to using that lefty, you're going to upgrade your other reels..


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

Big Joshy said:


> The difference is about 100 dollars lol! Its not as nice and light as an imx, but its light enough. I know that there are better rods out there but when you walk into a store and find a rod you like its hard to put it back and have to order a mystery rod online. The e6x line has a heavier swimbait rod that is likely the best choice in that line of rods for me but bass pro does not sell it. If this rod perfrorms well it might be in my future especially if I end up fishing heavier heads in deep water more than i expect too. For now I think im set


The graphite material used in some of the pricier rods may have a higher modulus, or more precise tapers etc. but that still may not equate to them being "better" as far as what feels right to the individual. I have used some much less expensive ones that I will still go back to such as the older Series One rods from Berkley. They were under a hundred bucks when they stopped making them and yet are still my favorite vertical jigging rod due to the stout butt section and overall feel . While they may not be in the same ball park as a $400 rod regarding the components used, I promise you that I can catch just as many fish with one. Let us know how you like your new Loomis once you do some field testing.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

well got a over 20" smallmouth on my first cast just now soooooo the thing worked ok so far lol. I think I over shot it on my line weight a bit. probably should have gone with 30 lb for more feel but the rod fires the bait out on the cast very well. The reel is borderline too small for this application also. like was said before this bait is right on the line of needing the next size up gear. Sensitivity of the rod seemed good but fishing in current with such a heavy rod will never be as sensitive as my smaller spinning setup with 10lb braid. I had no trouble telling the difference between a rock and a fish though. The smaller saugeye and bass were smacking the bigger bait giving away their locations and I quickly followed up with a smaller swim on my spinning rod and they would smash it. No backlashes or any issues at all. I could cast way far and still feel in control. Im happy for now!


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

Holy Cow! That's one heck of a smallie and on your first cast to boot. Can't beat that. Sounds like your new setup might have some good mojo. Nice job!


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## Bad Bub (Jan 17, 2006)

I'm not a big fan of braid with swimbaits. It only takes one loop during the cast to send a heavy bait off into the sunset. It's nice for easy hooksets, but it won't help keep a fish buttoned up on the way back. You'll eventually also run into the "vanishing tail" dilemma... Braid will cut through your swimbait the same way it cuts through grass. I've ruined 2 fairly expensive baits by having the line loop around the tail and literally cut it off clean, before I gave in to monofilament and fluorocarbon for all swimbaits.


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## Big Joshy (Apr 26, 2004)

Bad Bub said:


> I'm not a big fan of braid with swimbaits. It only takes one loop during the cast to send a heavy bait off into the sunset. It's nice for easy hooksets, but it won't help keep a fish buttoned up on the way back. You'll eventually also run into the "vanishing tail" dilemma... Braid will cut through your swimbait the same way it cuts through grass. I've ruined 2 fairly expensive baits by having the line loop around the tail and literally cut it off clean, before I gave in to monofilament and fluorocarbon for all swimbaits.


I understand what your saying about the braid cutting through baits but I can honestly say I have never lost a tail on a bait to braid. but I use a heavy fluorocarbon leader most of the time so I guess that would prevent that from happening. 

I have now used the new setup about 4 times even up on erie for smallmouth. I like it alot. Even the line I was worried was too heavy I now think is about perfect. My only complaint is with this heavy setup fish are to the boat or bank way faster than im used to. LOL. Still looking for one that will pull drag and the big smallies have not done it yet. And as far as making the switch to a left handed retreive, its the best thing I ever did. Im still getting used to it but I can make multiple pitches around shallow targets way faster and more accurately and I just find that im able to control the baits depth more instinctively since its what im used to on my spinning gear.


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## All Eyes (Jul 28, 2004)

Take that thing Striper or chrome fishing and get the drag screaming.


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