# How many?



## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

How many of you, beside me, use muzzleloaders during the regular gun season instead of shotguns?


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## Cat Mazter (May 20, 2005)

I love my Knight MuzzleLoader & Hunt with it during Shotgun Season too, I have been doing this for over 8 years now. I forget what its like to shoot a Deer with a Shotgun. I most always Tag out with my Bow anyway, Then use a Doe Tag for Gun season. I cant hunt in the real cold weather because of my Back, But when I do its with My Bow & Knight Muzzy.
Cat Mazter-> During the Spring & Summer  
Buck Mazter-> During Hunting Season


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

i did on occasion,when i hunted.
.50 cal. tc renegade kit gun.


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## bronzebackyac (Apr 19, 2005)

My family and I all hunt with smokepoles. My grandfather makes traditional riffles. Mine is a 58 caliber hawkins. It weighs about 9 lbs and is a deer dropper. It has a curly maple stock and a tapered barrel. It is tough for drives, but i did kill a doe last year on a drive. I killed a nice 8 pt the year before with it. I also have killed a small buck with a 45 caliber kentuky long riffle that he made. Traditional is the way to go. I makes for a great chalenge. The new muzzleloaders are just riffles that you load a different way. I think they should have a state wide primitive season for traditional only. That would be sweet. What do you guys think?


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

I do too. I love the range I get plus it's a whole lot more fun.


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## Smallie Gene (Jun 2, 2005)

DaleM said:


> I do too. I love the range I get plus it's a whole lot more fun.


Why is it more fun? My shotgun has 3 bullets and my muzzleloader has 1. 3 is better than 1 right?


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## bronzebackyac (Apr 19, 2005)

More of a challenge= more fun for some people. It is kinda like fishing with an ultralight. It is more of a challenge to land big fish so it is funner for some people. You should only need one shot anyway if you take the time to get the right shot. I know alot of people that just shoot as soon as they see a deer. knowing that they have a couple follow up shots. If everybody only had one shot then there would be alot less lead flying around the deer woods and an overall safer environment to hunt in.


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## ski (May 13, 2004)

I use my T/C Black diamond .50cal for gun season. Why? My T/C is a tack driver at 100 yards!! 
ski


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## Smallie Gene (Jun 2, 2005)

I too love muzzleloader hunting but it still is fun to unload a shotgun on a big buck running full bore from 100 yards. Can't really do that with a muzzleloader. Right now I got an Traditions in-line. Never really got into the flint lock stuff. I would love to have one of those Thompson Center Omegas, they look pretty sweet.


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

Smallie Gene said:


> I too love muzzleloader hunting but it still is fun to unload a shotgun on a big buck running full bore from 100 yards.


 

Unreal


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## Smallie Gene (Jun 2, 2005)

Onion said:


> Unreal


Hey Onions,

I never miss, I have a Remington 870, shoot Federal Slugs. And when I say never miss, I mean NEVER, it may be the 2nd or 3rd shot but its going down one way or another.


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

Smallie Gene said:


> it may be the 2nd or 3rd shot but its going down one way or another.



Guess what, those first 2 shots are misses. Ever wonder why people are scared to go into the woods during gun season?


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## Smallie Gene (Jun 2, 2005)

Onion said:


> Guess what, those first 2 shots are misses. Ever wonder why people are scared to go into the woods during gun season?


Trust me, safety is extremely important to me thus I am very observant of my surroundings. i.e. hunter orange, houses, etc. My first shot or two usually don't miss anyhow, they just slow 'em down a little so I can place my 3rd shot with pin-point accuracy. 

I know what the hell I'm doing, I just don't know what others are doing, thats why I'm scared to go in the woods during gun season and thats why I would never gun hunt on public land because you just don't know who is going to be out there.........


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## noboatdave (May 5, 2004)

You hit him in the rear with the first shot. The second shot takes off his lower jaw. In the excitement of unloading that last round on that big 'ol buck you short stroke the pump and now you have to clear your jammed action. In the mean time that big 'ol buck has run full bore over the hill and is now out of sight. 

Since neither round has hit a vital organ, or even a large artery, very little blood is on the ground and the trail is quickly abandoned. Since the deer was 100 yards away when you unloaded on him you have no idea where you hit and assume it was just a flesh wound and that big 'ol buck will be ok. Meanwhile 2 hollers away, curled up in brush pile, that big 'ol buck has begun the long process of dieing of starvation and sepsis.


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## bronzebackyac (Apr 19, 2005)

Looks like we might be seeing Smallie Gene on the outdoor channel this year dropping a slunger on the run offhand through the brush at 100 yrds. Wow. Can you teach me. lol


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## noboatdave (May 5, 2004)

It may take him one, two, or maybe three shots but that buck is going down!!!

Smallie,
If you drop him on the first shot do you shoot the other 2 into the ground just to hear the gun go BOOM BOOM?


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## Cat Mazter (May 20, 2005)

My Personal Goal is 1 Shot 1 Kill, Im no lead thrower. I will not go on to Some Public hunting grounds just because of guys that do go out & shoot @ everything running. Had to many close calls for me. If you cant put a Whitetail down in 1 shot then there is something wrong, Plus the closer you get makes it that much better. It shows Skill.  
Cat Mazter


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Smallie Gene,

I'm happy you kill and recover everything you shoot at, I'm sure everyone that has read this is also happy you do so.

You can't expect to say what you said on a public website and not catch some flak about it. ALL ethical hunters would define your stated activities as unethical, just no other way to define it.

So while this may be how you normally hunt or maybe not, when you bring it out, as you did, for discussion you will be questioned about the ethics of your actions as you describe. It is a responsibility of all hunters to police their own group. 

Sadly, there are a lot of hunters that possess the same thoughts as you expressed. These same hunters do little to uphold the integrity and tradition of hunting, they seem to be much more driven by the kill than the hunt.

The ODNR reduced the legal capacity of rounds that could be carried to address safety issues and as a side benefit helped in the ethical area a little. I would be in full support if a further reduction to one round was ever proposed and adopted.

Good luck,
Kim


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I also hunt with my muzzleloaders during all of our gun season in Ohio. My son, friend and brother also hunt with ML's.

I bowhunted for so many years that I wouldn't even know how to take a second shot, so more than one round at a time does nothing for me.

I hae been hunting with a Knight MK-85 and a Grand American for the last 12 years. last year I purchased a new Savage ML and liked it so much I bought one this year for my son to use.

The land I hunt offers a lot of opportunities for long open country shots. I just want to have the most capable weapon in my hands to do the job. The ML fits those needs for my hunting group.

I kicking around a get together this fall for anyone that wants to meet and shoot the deer guns and muzzleloaders.

Kim


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## Cat Mazter (May 20, 2005)

Id be more than willing to help you get us all together to shoot. I am a Member of Hocking County Fish & Game Assoc., We have a very nice Pistol & Rifle Ranges with the Rifles being on Covered Stations with a Concrete Shooting Tables. Id be more than willing to have some people come to the Range if we could arrange a Date & Time. It will hold about 30 cars, & There is 5-6 Shooting Bench's, with 100-200 yards backstops. Very nice & Out in the Country.
Cat Mazter


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I dont hunt much anymore, but when I did I would never shoot at a running deer!


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## flathunter (Apr 5, 2004)

I would also support a rule change to 1-round of ammo in the gun.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Cat Mazter,

Thanks for the offer, I'll take you up on it.

As we get a little closer to Fall lets see if we can pick a date.

I am looking for a range to join that has up to a 200 yd range. What is the criteria for joining yours.

Thanks again,
Kim


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## husky hooker (Apr 6, 2004)

Man Im Glad I Never Hunted Where He Does..........cheeeeeeze!!!!!!


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

Sometimes I use a shotgun and sometimes my Muzzle Loader. I really like using my 30-06 in West Virginia though.


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## Smallie Gene (Jun 2, 2005)

noboatdave said:


> Smallie,
> If you drop him on the first shot do you shoot the other 2 into the ground just to hear the gun go BOOM BOOM?


No. My ethics are way too high of a standard to put lead into the ground because that lead may eventually leak out and get into a creek or something that may adversely affect the ecosystem. I'll just pump the live rounds out onto the ground and make a "BOOM..... BOOM" noise with my mouth that way, no lead is wasted or unecessarily put into the environment. 

If shooting at an animal while its running makes me "unethical" and 
"unsafe" then I guess all the rabbit hunters are in the same category as me. I also guess that all the grouse hunters, quail, dove, geese, ducks, etc. are in the wrong too according to a few of you folks.


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## noboatdave (May 5, 2004)

Shooting at running or flying game with 200+ short range pellets is not the same as trying to put a single slug through a 9 inch target moving 35 mph at 100 yards.


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## bronzebackyac (Apr 19, 2005)

Quite Different it is.


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## BigChessie (Mar 12, 2005)

> Shooting at running or flying game with 200+ short range pellets is not the same as trying to put a single slug through a 9 inch target moving 35 mph at 100 yards.


Sometimes I think it would be easier to hit the moving 9 inch target at 100 yards, compared to some teal and woodies at 20 lol


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## DZimmer_1 (Jul 3, 2005)

I use my muzzleloader excluseivly here in SW Ohio where I hunt fields. I take it along down south BUT generally opt for the slug gun in the thick woods of Hocking county. It is simply along incase I want to hunt the open strip mines. I too love the extra yardage I get from my muzzleloader. If the perfect shot presented itself, I am more than capable of taking deer at 200 yards with the scoped inline. I won't go over 100 with my slug gun. The shotgun however is much easier to aquire the target at close up ranges you will encounter in the forrest. My views on shooting at running game, sure I could wing shoot at a deer leaping at 15 yards but unless I am very confident I will make a good hit on the first shot I will not. With the muzzleloader I never will as it is far to difficult to stay with an animal and lead it properly through a scope. 1 shot is all you should really need, If you hit the woods with the mentality that 3 will improve your hunting skills your dead wrong from the get go


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## SwollenGoat (Apr 13, 2005)

Yup, gave up my 870 2 years ago when my lovely wife bought me a T/C Black Diamond. Like Ski mentioned, the thing absolutely drives tacks at 100 yards.


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## Ranger4x4 (Jun 11, 2004)

I'm kickin around the idea of buying a 50 cal barrel for my t/c encore. I have a .223 barrel on it now, all I would need to do is buy the muzzleloader barrel to convert it over. If I could get my hawken figured out I may even take it in place of my 870 this year. Made the mistake of taking it for last years primitive season and never taking the time to target practice. The deer I shot at even stuck around long enough for me to reload twice, measuring powder and all. I was thinking of going with the see-thru scope rings for the Encore if I get a 50 cal barrel. Anyone try this? I have them on my .22 LR, the setup allows you to still use iron sights, and the scope is mounted higher above them. Not sure how it affects accuracy and all having the scope higher on the barrel than normal. Seems fine with the .22.


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## Zfish (Apr 5, 2004)

Back on subject. Lundy I know we've discussed the idea of having a muzzle loader get togeather and I personally think its a great idea. I've been dying to get out and shoot my CVA Kodiak .50 cal. Had it since last year and havent put a shot though it yet.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Mike, I would love to get one together for the weekend of Nov 5th.

The problem is where to go. I don't know where we could all get togther for some shooting, do you?

I was hoping Cat Mazter, or someone else, had a place we could do it.

I'm ready if we can find a location


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## Zfish (Apr 5, 2004)

Kim, Sounds good to me. The place that I could use would be up by Mt. Gilead and its just a family friends house but there isnt anything spectacular up that way. Cat Mazter had a really good idea on where to have it. If we could do it that way Im all in. I need to go pick up some 209 primers. 

On a side note by dads buddy got an 8pt yesterday.


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

I hunt w/ a revolver, so I have 6 bullets, now granted I want to only use 1. I am a fan of the 3 shell law in shotguns, makes it more safe. (Plus I guess it makes it more of a challenge.) I've heard the 3 shotgun shell law vs 6 in a revolver, but some poeple dont understand even though my Ruger .454 is accurate out to 80 yards w/ the Burris scope, 95% of my shots are going to be 40 yards or less w/ my handgun. I use the same deer stand that I could for bow season, & both are set up for shots under 50 yards.

Smallie, I'm sure you've been hunting for a long time, go back & re-read your post, maybe you didnt know it came aross so badly.


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## peon (Feb 28, 2005)

i realy dont know why everyone is acting like that cause i shoots at a deer thats running??? am i just stupid or am i missing something.. ???? i have shot at deer that are moving faster then a walk with my 870.. and see nothing wrong with that.. so i must have missed something....


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Smallie Gene said:


> I'll just pump the live rounds out onto the ground and make a "BOOM..... BOOM" noise with my mouth that way, no lead is wasted or unecessarily put into the environment.
> 
> After reading your comments, it is apparent that you get plenty of daily practice in making that "BOOM..... BOOM" noise with your mouth.


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## bkr43050 (Apr 5, 2004)

peon said:


> i realy dont know why everyone is acting like that cause i shoots at a deer thats running??? am i just stupid or am i missing something.. ???? i have shot at deer that are moving faster then a walk with my 870.. and see nothing wrong with that.. so i must have missed something....


 Your description of the shot you would take is quite different than the one earlier. I am sure most of us would take a shot at a moving deer if it is in close range and is not running fast. However this is the scenario that got people excited.


Smallie Gene said:


> but it still is fun to unload a shotgun on a big buck running full bore from 100 yards.


 I have shot deer while moving. I have also shot a couple long range and moving in my earlier years of hunting that I look back on now and think I would never do it again. I have learned over the years the importance of striving for an accurate kill shot. I have watched too many half butchered deer run by with a leg shot off or jaw blown off only to see them disappear through the other end of the woods to more than likely never be recovered. I am not saying that someone is not capable of dropping a deer from 100 yards running full bore. After all people win the lottery every day. But I think the chances of it happening are far too low to warrant the attempt.


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## TopGun (Jun 29, 2005)

I am waiting to hear the comment yeah i shoot the pregnant ones it's cool you just don't have to lead them as much.   We all hunt differently and for different reasons, most of us will evaluate a shot before we take it, and have it set in our mind as to what we will and wil not do. i will shoot at a deer in movement if it is in an easy stride and not at full throttle and darting around everywhere. A moving target is not the problem, the problem is going fully auto on a 100 yd target that you could have waited on and possibly picked up another shot at it when someone else kicked it your direction. god only knows i hate putting my beer down to take a CHANCE at a 100 yarder when i can get a close up one and just unload from the hip without having to spill the brew. lol jk


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