# Hawgfest Bitterness



## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

Friday I pre-fished with my Team (#72); Joe Nazdam, George Smith, and myself Jared Meisterics. We did fairly well, managed 34lbs. George was able to reel in the 2 biggest walleye of his life in one day!

On the day of the tournament we did VERY well. We managed 29.14 lbs. I even reeled in the biggest walleye of my fishing career (9.6lbs 31inches). Everything we caught was at or before noon. Boy was it a tough day, every fish counted. I did not realize everyone else had a tough bite too. So many fish, so few bites. When will they ever feed? I certainly thought we had just a mediocre finish with all those marks and so many fishermen. However it turned out to be a tough bite for everyone. Just goes to show that you never know!

Unfortunately my team was disqualified by Marc, Kim and Matt because what we thought was a friendly gesture. They viewed as grounds for disqualification. No One protested this rule to bring this up against us. They (Marc, Matt, and Kim) merely brought it up on there own.

What happened is that as we waited in that long line to weigh fish and the boat behind us had really tough day and requested that we turn in their boat card. I tried to get them to weigh in but they were dead set on leaving without weighing in. Mind you that this happened 75ft from the weigh in. However there were still a number of boats in front of us to weigh. I thought nothing of doing this favor because I remember at the migration open Marc Hudson complained numerous times about people not turning in their cards and having to replace them. I thought we were doing Marc, Matt and Kim a favor.

This is the exact same as Matt Davis having a bad day and Marc Hudson having a great day Marc deciding to do his friend a favor by turning in his card. 

They decided to interpret rule #9 as grounds for disqualification. My team and I think this unfair and unjust, considering that we were only trying to help out another team and the tournament itself. Besides it was in front of everyone, so obviously no fish were exchanged. WE DID NOTHING WRONG!

I was devastated when I heard the news from Marc's mouth. We did nothing wrong. We did not take anyones fish. Nor did we want to, I thought my fat 31 incher was a great contender for big fish and well over ten pounds, and we would be top ten finisher. After a lengthy discussion and pleading with them they would not budge.

Turns out we would have cashed third place and had the 3rd biggest for "big fish pot". Heard that was quite a pot! 

I really thought this was a family and friends fun event. However helping someone out was shown to be costly and frowned upon.

I even requested that this be taken to a vote amongst the tournament entrants. However this too was denied because they said, "this tournament was not a democracy, its a dictatorship!" they said "if we let this slide that will ruin this tournament for future events, It will turn to crap".
They also said "that they need to set examples of rule violators, and it will not be tolerated"

Well if all of this is true? Why didnt they bring it up to all who participated in the event? 

Why would they not let George go on stage or at least state what had happened?

Joe and I were looking forward to this tourney all year Joe even bought a brand new 2007 Starcraft Super Fisherman (more like super boat!)a week before and picked it up two days before the tournament. I even bought brand new Cisco's.

Aside from the money it would have been nice to at least go on stage and be recognized for our hard work. Last years Hawgfest was my first tourney ever. And this is also Joe and I's second major tournament ever, aside from the Dave's Bait tourny's we did this year.

I was hoping everyone could take the time to post their opinion on this decision? It would be greatly appreciated!!!!

This was devastating for all of us on my team and also for a large number of my friends who participated in the event.

If Joe and I participate in any more WBSA sponsored events it will only be because we love to fish tournaments, we are fishing with our friends, and love to compete. I realize that a few peoples decisions does not reflect the majority of others. And my opinion does not reflect poorly on the organization as a whole.

THANK YOU to everyone who helped us in our success!

Vic's Sports Center for the boat and getting it ready.

Cisco fishing system's for the awesome rod holders. 

Blue Dolphin Charters

And to all of my friends. Gary, Brandon & Nicholas Zart, Kevin M., Frank, Steve Rachkofski, Mike Miller, Jason Kops, Scott, Joe, George, Steve Carlson, Tom, and Rich Bnoit.

Still Fuming!

Jared Meisterics team members George Smith and Joe Nazdam.


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## Juls (Apr 12, 2004)

Jared, sorry to hear what happened to you. I'm glad to see though that it hasn't soured your interest in fishing tournaments in the future. Let me be the first to say congrats on your "what should have been" finish! That was a great basket on a tough bite kind-o-day.

Unfortunately, the rules that I posted previously were taken from the WBSA site and they are different from the official rules that were given to the team Capt's at the rules meeting. The wording in rule number 9 states (read the last sentence in particular):

9. Weigh in
Teams must be past the official check in site before the end of tournament hours to weigh fish. Any team arriving late will not be allowed to weigh. Check in site will be announced at Captain&#8217;s Meeting. Winners will be determined by the weight of their 5 largest fish. Big fish winner will be determined by the weight of single largest walleye. Only 1 fish per team is eligible for big fish. After checking, in all teams must weigh their fish in a timely manner and not come in contact with any other boats. Not doing so will be treated the same as being late. Teams not weighing in must turn in their boat board at the weigh-in location.

So, even though I would have probably done the same thing as you Jared, we both would have been DQ'd by the official rules. Even though it could be read, in this case, that the boat board WAS turned in at the weigh in LOCATION, it's in the rules that the team that is not weighing fish must do the turning in.

That's why it's so important to read, and KNOW, all the rules for any tournament organization you fish with.

I feel bad for what happened to you, and it's a hard pill one must swallow, but it is what it is, and I have to change my position and side with the tournament director and his sidekicks on this one...simply because I looked at the wrong set of rules.

However, it was brought to their attention that they do have two sets of rules sitting out there on the net. BUT, the only rules that matter are the ones they handed out to the competitors at the rules meeting.

Juls


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

No good deed goes un-punished I guess. Sorry for your bad luck.


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## Habitual Eyer (May 22, 2006)

Good job Jared. Regardless of your DQ, you put in a great weight under some TOUGH conditions. I applaud your post as it states your bitterness without being rude or unreasonable. You are a classy guy and that will be remembered far longer than a 29 lb Hogfest weight. Looks like you have spent some serious coin lately and the Hogfest winnings would have come in REAL handy (not to mention you earned it !). Some times things don't work out.
I think your mishap should have been dealt with a stiff verbal warning, followed by a reminder to all at next years captains meeting "that although we need our boards back, if we see this again, YOU WILL BE DQ"d".
I thought your tourney was over once you cleared the check in boat at the mouth. At that point you are officially done fishing. Can they not expect any boat-to-boat contact while waiting to weigh? How many boats idling feet away from each other? Did any say "howd ya do?" Everyone floating feet from each other waiting to weigh and I believe you need to be reasonable concerning boat-to-boat contact. I know you are in possesion of fish and one "could" exchange fish, but technically it has to be seen to happen and that's why there is a protest procedure. 
I love coming to the Hogfest and realize the volunteer time and effort put in. These people need a serious round of applause as this event was coordinated extremely well! Thier ruling on Jarred's team was made with what they thought was in the best interest's of keeping this tourney on the straight and narrow. This tournament is getting very big and very popular forcing those that run it to struggle to keep it under control. 
These guys worked hard as hell, and made an innocent judgement error. I believe a verbal warning to them, as well as all other participants next year should have been the ruling. (Not a DQ).


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## Juls (Apr 12, 2004)

Had to edit this one since I had to edit my original post. The set of rules I originally copy/pasted were from the WBSA site and are different from the ones handed out to the team capt's at the rules meeting.

Juls


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## FreeByrdSteve (Jun 28, 2004)

Jared,
Congrats on your catches during pre-fishing and for putting together a top 5 program on tournament day with a very tough bite.

I have to believe that just about any team would have done what you did - turning in someones boat board so that there would be less conjestion at the dock where the weigh-in was taking place. In fact I turned in a boat number board for someone a few weeks ago at the Vermilion LEWT event because there was conjestion at the facility where we had the weigh-in. Same scenario about 50 feet from the weigh-in and they decided they were not going to weigh their fish. Never in a hundred years would I have imagined I was doing anything wrong or did you do anything wrong by doing a favor to everyone involved in plain site of everyone. That really stinks.

I heard something about this at the banquet Sat evening but figured that there must be more to the story. What a bummer.

I will say I was extremely impressed with all of the organization and they way the inspections / takeoff / checkin / weigh-in was handled so GREAT JOB to everyone involved there.

Steve Carlson


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## SELL-FISH (Feb 9, 2007)

Jared, Joe, and George,
I first want to say awsome job on what should have been a great finish for you guys. You guys are as die hard as they come, and just great guys that I'm glad to have as friends. As for what happened saturday I am still in utter disbelief. I'm just glad that this is being brought out into the open and not swept under the rug like it was at the at the awards ceromony. The event was run so smooth and well thought out until your being DQed. It really left an awful taste in the mouths of the few of us that knew what was going on. All I can say guys is keep your chins up and don't let this ruin what your love to do. Again guys great job... Scott..


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## Bassmangsj (May 21, 2004)

If both boats cleared the check-in boat you should not have been disqualified. As a tournament director myself (bass tournamnets) and having been a participant in many more, a check-in boat is used to check the number of fish that a team is going to weigh-in and of course to make sure you are on-time.

So for instance you check in and say "Team 74, 4 fish" and this other team cwould have said something like "Team 75, 0 fish" the check-in guy should report that to the weigh master and tournament director.

Any team coming in with something less or more better have a good reason, like a short fish that they do not weigh, or get DQ'd.

After this other team passd the check-in with no fish, there is no harm in another team turning in their weigh card or board...whatever it is you use.

Being as you got DQ'd, you should have put up the $150 (One of the dumbest rule I have ever heard of) and protested the other team for not going to the tournament director and checking in.

Of course "All rules have loop holes" (THE dumbest rule I have ever heard of) and you probably would have lost the protest anyway.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

i did not fish the tourney,and was not involved in any way,but since opinions were solicited,i'll give an "outsider's" view.
first,congratulations on a fine limit of fish.that's feat for anyone under any conditions.
now on to the question at hand.
i believe you were and are being honest,and understand your frustration,and your good intentions,and under most circumstances,would see nothing wrong in doing what you did.however,though it is a somewhat "technical" point,according to the rules i read(several times)it was a violation.not the act of turning in another card,but having "contact" with another boat after checking in.the following is an excerpt from rule #9 which you mentioned.so based on that,i don't agree that it was "interpreted" by the directors,but plainly written in the rules.no contact means no contact.


> After checking, in all teams must weigh their fish in a timely manner and not come in contact with any other boats. Not doing so will be treated the same as being late. Teams not weighing in must turn in their boat board at the weigh-in location.


i will ad that after reading the rules that juls posted,i didn't see that wording of rule #9,but it was just as clear in rule #8. 
i actually don't understand why the other team couldn't simply turn in their own card and notify directors as also noted in the rules.
my opinion is that when there is money on the line in these type of events,there needs to be clear cut rules,and they must be strictly followed in order to preserve the integrity of the program.there can be no bending as it would only lead to more future problems.protest.
i do think it was an honest mistake that most of us could make,and feel badly that you were dq'd for just trying to help out another angler,but i also understand the importance of rules and the enforcement of them.
right or wrong as some may seem at times,they are a part of the system.


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

Not to be smart a$$ here but if I was at the weigh in and a boat showed up with 2 team numbers I would have D.Q.'d them also. Too much at stake. The wrong people are being complained about here. If you want to look at who's at fault for what happened simply look at the guy who didn't want to bother with weighing fish, and put you in that position. I'm new to fishing tourney's for the most part (2) but I wouldn't have asked you to do what was asked, nor would I have taken their number. The scales is not the place to sort out that kind of stuff, and if I would have seen you pull up with 2 numbers, and beat me, I and many others would have raised hell about you having 2 numbers. The correct decision was made in my eyes. You and your buddy put Marc, and the crew in a bad position, and at least I feel it was the correct decision. Feel free to bash me now, call me what you want, but thats my 2 cents worth on it. Great job W.B.S.A., and O.G.F. you did very well.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

Sorrt to hear that your friendly gesture turned into a DQ.

But........rule #9 on the registration page clearly states that no boats are to come into contact with each other. Rules are rules, and when there are dollars at stake, they must be closely followed to keep order during the tournament. If you give one team a 'verbal warning', where does it end? Does every team then get a warning when and if they break a rule?




9. Weigh in
Teams must be past the official check in site before the end of tournament hours to weigh fish. Any team arriving late will not be allowed to weigh. Check in site will be announced at Captains Meeting. Winners will be determined by the weight of their 5 largest fish. Big fish winner will be determined by the weight of single largest walleye. Only 1 fish per team is eligible for big fish. After checking, in all teams must weigh their fish in a timely manner and not come in contact with any other boats. Not doing so will be treated the same as being late. Teams not weighing in must turn in their boat board at the weigh-in location.


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

Bassmangjs, how would you deal with team A checking in with 4, Team B checking in 4 fish, but Team A has a 11lb fish with 3 scrubbers, and Team B has a great basket needing a kicker to take it all. They come in contact and a swap occures. Not that it would, but it could happen. It's plain and simple here guy's . Somebody got lazy, and it cost someone else. Don't blame the Marc, and the staff. It's not their fault.


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## Juls (Apr 12, 2004)

misfit said:


> i will ad that after reading the rules that juls posted,i didn't see that wording of rule #9,but it was just as clear in rule #8.


The rules I originally copy/pasted were from the WBSA site and were not the same as the ones handed out to the competitors. The WBSA site tournament rules were not as clear....thus my original response (which I have changed).

Juls


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## jaumaumau (Jan 16, 2007)

I agree totally with Captain Kevin's and the OGF's post.

THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS.


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## Bassmangsj (May 21, 2004)

Look I understand the rules. However something like that really should have been reiterated before blast-off: "You will be DQ'd if you come into contact with another boater, at any time"

That sounds really stupid doesn't it?

Why two teams would swap fish at all is beyond me. Sure it could happen, but why? Two teams could swap fish at any time, not just before weigh-in after you are checked-in. How would both Team A and Team B (as stated above) know what they needed to cash? If it was such a tough tournament, both teams cold have possibly cashed right?

With this same ruling, two teams would be DQ'd if one of them has helping another because of a break-down. 

I would not have DQ'd the team with no other evidence for simply turning in another teams weigh card, if that other team checked-in properly. What the tournament director is saying by doing that is the team that left early gave fish away to the team weighing in.

A simple lie detector could prove otherwise, which is supposedly on-site and all competitors agreed to take.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

no contact, means no contact. had i been in your situation i probably would have been DQ'ed also. it was a tough day and i know pepole were tired and wanted to get off the water, so without thinking i would have said "sure i'll turn it in". you made an innocent MISTAKE. it happens. with over 100 boats the rules cant be bent. we all need to remember the rules are there for a reason and we must follow them. 

you still had a fine day out on the lake.


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## Lewis (Apr 5, 2004)

This is the response from OGF and WBSA staff.

First off, let us say that this decision wasn't made lightly or to make an example of anyone. 
Other than that Jareds post is pretty factual.

Everyone has a right to their opinions on this matter and if someone thinks rules are too harsh or enforced too strictly then we certainly want to hear about it and to be given suggestions on potential changes for future tournaments. 
However a tournament of this size has to have strictly enforced rules to maintain the integrity of the event. 
In our view,having another boats number card aboard your boat is much more than casual conversation between boats while in the weigh in line.

The rules Juls posted originally are not the Hawg Fest Rules. 

This is section 9 from the Hawg Fest rules that every captain was given at the rules meeting:

9. Weigh in
Teams must be past the official check in site before the end of tournament hours to weigh fish. Any team arriving late will not be allowed to weigh. Check in site will be announced at Captain's Meeting. Winners will be determined by the weight of their 5 largest fish. Big fish winner will be determined by the weight of single largest walleye. Only 1 fish per team is eligible for big fish. After checking, in all teams must weigh their fish in a timely manner and not come in contact with any other boats. Not doing so will be treated the same as being late. Teams not weighing in must turn in their boat board at the weigh-in location.

The complete rules can be found on the Vermilion Hawg Fest Web Page

We did not clip fish tails at this event.
We also knew we could not keep all boats in the river in sight of the weigh in location.

We value your opinions and we want to run the best tourneys around.
WE ABSOLUTELY HATE HAVING TO DQ ANYONE, EVER.
At the same time when money is involved it can bring out the worst in people and because of that some honest helpful people can get caught in the middle.
That is, we are sure is what happened here. 
The problem is that there is no provision in the rules to account for that. 

Some of you will understand this and some of you won't.
We didnt try to push it under the rug and we even encouraged them to stay and talk to as many people as they wanted, and to do what Jared has done , which is to post it here for comment and he did an overall pretty good job of presenting it. 
They were upset and one of them extremely upset and we don't blame them. Being on one side of a decision is always different from being on the other. 

We feel we did what we had to do and stand by it.

The OGF and WBSA Tournament Staff


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## Habitual Eyer (May 22, 2006)

Where does it end if you give a verbal warning.......
My question is where does it start. 
While we were pulling up to the wall to weigh, we had a problem getting my partner up the wall (he's big). The OGF guys said they would walk my boat down the wall for me while I weighed. The guy coming in behind us obviously had a tough day. He barks out at us (get it moving) in a real rude way. This was before we climbed the wall and handed them our fish, and in plain view of the OGF guys who also was surprised at how rude the guy was. THAT WAS BOAT TO BOAT CONTACT and in clear view of the OGF (as interpreted in the rules). I know this is not the same as two boat boards, but my point is that a certain level a reasonableness has to be exersized in order for any event to continue. You get nothing but tournament savey Pro's and maybe you can be this strict, but I thought this was an amateur event that welcomed those that are starting to figure this stuff out. Alot at stake?.....my worry is that there is getting to be to much at stake. 
I'm not worried about Jared and his team though, they are pretty good and will have alot of future success.


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## COmmodore 64 (Jun 24, 2006)

I would be beside myself if I had been DQ'd with that kind of poundage in the cooler. I would be really upset.

However, based on the information provided in this thread, I feel that the WBSA made the right decision.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

I want to first congradulate Jared, Joe and George on there awesome basket of fish, you guys figured them out on a super tough bite. I really enjoy working with you guys and glad you got the boat just in time just as I did, congrats on that as well, so good job on getting the hogs figured out you guys deserved a check. 

What I didn't like about the rules or the ruling is, what does must not come in contact mean.? I happen to BS with two of the other top 10 teams, the whole time coming in the river and in line to weight fish, if you must not come in contact with anyone, those two boats and myself should have all been DQ'ed then along with all the other boats that talked to each other on the way in down the river after checking in. What if a friend of yours didn't have any fish to weight and drove up and tossed there boat card number into your boat without agreeing to take it in? then what would happen? I think the rules need to state and define "must not come in contact with another boat" a little bit better. 

I absolutely think Jared and Joe where purposely made an example of, if you must not come in contact with any boat while in line to weight fish 70% of the field would be Dq'ed, I fish the whole LEWT series and everyone is BS'ing while waiting to get in and weigh fish. If the rules don't specifically say and define contact they should not be Dq'ed. This happened after they checked in, at that point the touney if officially OVER. 

Hats off to all the volenterrs the event was ran awesome and I loved every minute of it. nothing is perfect but this was darn close to it. So thanks all of the folks involved both WBSA & OGF. Great job on pulling this event off with no problems or glitches. Can't wait till next year.  Thanks to the city of Vermillion as well, it was a much better city to host the event and think the flights and river weigh in worked out very well.


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## another dagos buy (Sep 24, 2007)

this is hard to do but i must reply to it. and i must say that i had to register for the first time to do this. first of all i did not fish the tourney. i was the "volunteer" that took the card from the captain. i brought it to the weigh in to show a zero and the boat did not want to weigh the fish. it was brought to my attention by another volunteer that you had two boat cards in your boat and you had to come in contact with another boat and i was asked if that is a rules violation. it was told to me that there are officials that sort this out. and i partly heard and saw them talk about it. not only was it hard for me to report this but it looked and sounded very hard to them. this tourney has grown fast and is liked by nearly everybody that comes to it or enters it. the reason it has grown so fast is because of the the two clubs that put it on. it is run in the best interest of the contestants and visitors alike. all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch. do i think you are a bad apple, no, but if this was noticed by an angler and nothing was done i could only think of what could happen to the tournament. do i think you cheated, NO. do i think you broke the rules in my opinion yes. i must also say that i am glad that they did not let you put it to a vote. remember you said that this is a family event and i don't think that that would have been a family oriented discussion. that is why there is a committee. to make sure that the rules are followed.


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

LEWIS. thank you for your reply and i appreciate your opinion. however george was denied the chance to go up front and state our case. We were denied all public recognition.


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

K-Gone, I think verbal contact in the river is not the same as the two boats coming in physical contact. I might be wrong though.


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

Contact is contact. Just like communucation is communication weather it be marine radio or hand signals, talking in the river, 2 WAY RADIOS etc etc. The things I listed, have people that fit the bill!!!!!!


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

Bassmangsj said:


> Look I understand the rules. However something like that really should have been reiterated before blast-off: "You will be DQ'd if you come into contact with another boater, at any time"
> 
> That sounds really stupid doesn't it?
> 
> ...



You could 'what if' this thing all day long. The simple fact is that a rule was broken. The rules were clearly posted in the HawgFest information page, as well as handed out to the captains at the captains meeting. The officials were obligated to uphold the very rules that they set to be fair to all those that participated.

It was very unfortunate for the team that got DQ'ed after having such a good day, but even if the same scenario had happened to one of my good friends out there under the same circumstances, I'd have to side with the officials.


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## Hetfieldinn (May 17, 2004)

weaver said:


> You get nothing but tournament savey Pro's and maybe you can be this strict, but I thought this was an amateur event that welcomed those that are starting to figure this stuff out.


If you were at the dinner afterwards, when the award money was being handed out, you would have seen that there are now seasoned professionals bringing their seasoned professional friends with them to go up against us rank amateurs.

What was once a tournament setup for amateurs has been, and is, quickly disappearing.


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

Het, I think the pro's who participated in the event where in town Pre-fishing for the F.L.W. event this weekend in Cleveland. I had a hand in one of those guy's catching a ride in the tourney due to one of the teams having a member suffer what was almost an amputated leg in a chain saw accident. I didn't see any harm in it, since they ran the captain's boat, and his program. Next year you more than likely won't see those guy's unless The F.L.W. makes Cleveland their final stop of the year again.


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

Captain Kevin said:


> K-Gone, I think verbal contact in the river is not the same as the two boats coming in physical contact. I might be wrong though.


Right contact is contact, so myself and two other top 10 teams should all be DQed according the the contact rule. Which didn't happen even though many people saw us jawing back and forth. This is why it's a little unfair to Jared's team, We were in contact period just as they were. The rules where not upheld for ALL contact just some which is unfair it was a double standard period and a top 5 team got the short end of the stick. I was talking to many boats and it didn't matter for me why did it for Jared. That team could have thrown his boat number into there new starcraft with no contact whatsoever, which would have been much less worse than what happened to myself.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

Wow...

I fish a lot of salmon tournaments on Lake Michigan. When you come in from the day of fishing, your cooler is checked by a volunteer at the end of the weigh-in line. You must then duct tape your catch-log to the top of your cooler, and then seal your cooler with tape..which happens in plain view of the volunteer. 

In this case, I would have ponied up the $150.00 protest fee and taken my chances with the protest system in place as provided in the rules. I've only seen challenges occur two times at salmon tournies, and both times the accused was exonerated via polygraph and further investigation. 

Tournament committees have to make tough decisions at times, and unfortunately for Jared and his crew, they WERE made out as an example for all to remember. Now...you cannot blame the committee. They were put into a situation in which they: 

1. Knew that the guy was likely being honest

2. Had no choice but to DQ him


I feel for ya' Jared...seriously. This is just one of those things that is tough to swallow. If you really wanted to be "heard"...then you should have put up the protest fee and gone through the process.


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## williamonica0214 (Aug 1, 2006)

My only question would be why a 150 for a fee to protest ? just wondering as an outsider


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

LEWIS; i appreciate your opinion. but george was denied the option to state his case to everyone. he tried Presenting at the dinner however he was turned down.


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## honey (Oct 13, 2006)

While it may seem that the DQ is trivial at best, if it is in the rules and money is involved the letter of the law must be upheld at all costs! If not the integrity of the event, not to mention possible lawsuits will enter into the equation. Just my 2 cents.


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

I keep trying to post a quick reply hoever i cant find it.

LEWIS; thank you for your honesty.

however, George was denied when he tried to state his case to the tournament participants in front in a reasonable manor.


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## Bassmangsj (May 21, 2004)

If your team was not given the option to protest, then that IS a huge problem.

There is alot of open discussion here...I like that. I have been a member of this site for a long time, just never posted much. I am glad to see my opinion, and many others have not been completely shot down.

There is also alot of talk here about following rules to the letter. That is impossible as the letter is interpreted differently, as was the case here in my opinion. To me the intent of the rule that was broken (or not broken) is much more important than the "letter". The intent is to keep contestants moving along from the check-in to the weigh-in and not to stop and contact anyone. This also helps to prevent "swapping" of fish between teams. (I still don't see why this would happen, but that is just me.)

So the intent of the rule is to prevent cheating and limit congestion in the weigh-in area. As this was an on-the-water weigh-in i presume, I would support that intent of the rule. However, I don't think anyone should be DQ'd for holding up or congesting the weigh-in area. There are bound to be non-contestants adding to any congestion also, so maybe a warning or at the most a weight penalty.

The other side of that coin would be the swapping of fish- automatic DQ, no question.

All cases though are still left to interpretation of the Director and the rules committee. With a back-up of a protest and a polygraph, I still don't see why this team was DQ'd. 

If there was any question if the team caught those fish, then DQ them and offer them a cahnce to protest.

Someone from the committe already stated they did not think they were cheating, so they were DQ'd for what? Congesting the weigh-in area, if that is another intent of this rule.

That is harsh if you ask me.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

again,i see it as an honest mistake by both parties involved.but the point is,a rule was broken.whether or not some may think the rule is open to interpretation,i personally can distiguish between "talking" between boats and actual "contact" as in exchanging number boards.
i'm quite sure nobody is accusing jared of cheating,or believes he did.to me,that is not the issue.the issue is the contact by taking another entrant's board.
here is the rule verbatem........................


> Teams not weighing in must turn in their boat board at the weigh-in location


that is specific,and clearly does not say "anyone" can turn in the board for another boat.in essence,the other team inadvertantly and unintentionally dq'd both teams by making such a request.
as i said,i really feel badly about the outcome,and would also hate to be in the position of making the call.
lastly,as mentioned by BFG,the protest option was there and could have been pursued.


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

They: Mark, Kim, and Matt, specifically said that they did not think that we did not cheat. 

There were at least ten boats around us that were in the tournament


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## smallie75 (Dec 9, 2005)

Who in the heck is going to cheat in the weigh in line-----Are you kidding me!
He should of NOT been DQed... IF anything he should of demanded a polygraph test to prove his innocence. 

The rule states WORD FOR WORD NO CONTACT WITH ANOTHER BOAT! WHEN DID HE MAKE CONTACT WITH ANOTHER BOAT. AN ANGLER FISHING THE TOURNAMENT APPROACHED HIM..... The rule also states you must hand in your board at the weigh LOCATION---to me that is not specific enough. The weigh in line is the weigh in LOCATION...It doesnt state to turn in to Director, the scales or a designated box or whatever. If he was denied polygraph or denied protest then the committee is at FAULT. All rules are understood differently from person to person.....the rule does not state no contact with other anglers---it says no contact with boats....Change the wording so that everyone understands.....Was there a pre tournament meeting that covered word for word of the rules....Hopefully because there might be someone that couldn't read them-----
Patrick Ewing graduated from Georgetown U without being able to read a first grade book! Either way this is just a post, and an opinion, and not meant to ruffle feathers.....But the lesson I take from this post is---Nice guys once again finish last!!!!! The guy who gave his board up is an Azz- to darn lazy to wait in line---or drop it off in the right area......


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## rutty (Feb 5, 2007)

K gonefishin said:


> Right contact is contact, so myself and two other top 10 teams should all be DQed according the the contact rule. Which didn't happen even though many people saw us jawing back and forth. This is why it's a little unfair to Jared's team, We were in contact period just as they were. The rules where not upheld for ALL contact just some which is unfair it was a double standard period and a top 5 team got the short end of the stick. I was talking to many boats and it didn't matter for me why did it for Jared. That team could have thrown his boat number into there new starcraft with no contact whatsoever, which would have been much less worse than what happened to myself.


I didn't fish in this event, and I don't think I ever would after this but anyway.....I agree with Kevin here, CONTACT is CONTACT. For example, lets say I didn't catch any fish or just didn't want to weigh my fish in. After having casual conversation with Kevin and everyone else in the line I find out that a team did really well but I didn't care for them much (I get along with everyone so that would happen to me, but lets say it did), so I drive up to their boat and throw my boat card in their boat. Would they be DQ'ed? By the rules that you guys are going by they would be! They came in CONTACT with my card.
Should they? Absolutely not. I was just helping my buddy out and knew this boat had more weight then they did. 

Just an example. I don't think the committe made the right decision here. I also fish a lot of bass tournaments and these things happen all the time. People will come in CONTACT with other people after they have checked in. 
Once you cross that Check-IN boat, the tournament is officially over. You can tell people what you caught them on, where you caught them, it doesn't really matter at this point, the tournament is over.


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## ezbite (May 25, 2006)

rutty said:


> Once you cross that Check-IN boat, the tournament is officially over. You can tell people what you caught them on, where you caught them, it doesn't really matter at this point, the tournament is over.


 i don't feel the tourney is over until i get a weight slip for my catch. im not trying to start an arguement here, im just saying what I felt the end of the tourney was for ME. after weigh in, not check in.


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

Realistically, if i would have protested the committee on the committe's desicion who do you think would have won?

It would be different if i was protesting another team! There is no governing body over the committee. Remember, Its a "dictatorship" as they said!


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

Well whatever happened happened and there is nothing that any of us can do about it but complain which really isn't going to get anyone anywhere BUT... In the future and for the entire 2008 LEWT Series and for 2008 Hogfest I truly hope for the competitors sake the rules are re-written and much more clear as to what "contact" actually is. This is an interpretation issue, and now that this taken place and a winning team caught the short end of the stick, the new rules (which are hopefully written IMO ) should be clear as day as far as what contact is considered along with more and better wording about turning in of boat numbers and others turning boat numbers in to the weigh in. 

Once again Jared and Joe great job and sorry for what decision was made against you.


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## krustydawg (Apr 26, 2004)

MEISTERICS said:


> Remember, Its a "dictatorship" as they said!


First of all I can't even imagine being in your shoes Jared, I would be very disappointed to say the least, this whole situation makes my stomach turn. Whoever made the comment of things being a "dictatorship" needs to think about that comment long and hard. OGF and the Hawgfest Tourney would be *nothing* if it was not for the thousands of OGF members that show their support for the site and have helped it grow over the last several years. 
Mr. Dictatorship needs to explain what he meant by that comment.


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

Come on, Contact is contact, what is unclear???? It can mean touching, communicating etc etc etc. You guys want to find a loop hole that is not there. If you were talking befor wighing fish well I guess you were lucky because that too was againt the rules, IMO the physical contact that had been made was even more unquestionable but what do I know.


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## duckman (Sep 18, 2004)

People wonder why I don't chair field trials anymore. Its because of issues like this. I have had a first place dog DQ'd (I miss spelled my dogs full AKC name leaving out a letter on the entry) and had to DQ a first place dog... there were big dollars and nationals at stake in both cases

Either way it sucks big time and my heart goes out to both sides. In some ways I know the event chair feels like the tourney had something taken away from its success because they made a difficult decision and on the other side guys really feel slighted (understatement I know)

The best way I have found to deal with this was to meet after both sides have chance to let it go and talk about it

In the past after having chatted, I refunded entry fees and out of my pocket paid their gas bill for the trip. Hauling horse trailers 400 miles ain't cheap.

Just a couple thoughts from my experiences


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## K gonefishin (May 4, 2004)

krustydawg said:


> First of all I can't even imagine being in your shoes Jared, I would be very disappointed to say the least, this whole situation makes my stomach turn. Whoever made the comment of things being a "dictatorship" needs to think about that comment long and hard. OGF and the Hawgfest Tourney would be *nothing* if it was not for the thousands of OGF members that show their support for the site and have helped it grow over the last several years.
> Mr. Dictatorship needs to explain what he meant by that comment.



Jared didn't tell me who even said that so I cannot comment on that nor do I really care just upset my buddy got DQ'ed so I'm speaking my mind of our a little frustration for a friend I guess. 

Your right Scott, contact is contact, so why wasn't my team and two other top 10 teams not DQ'ed I know people saw us talking. Like I said double standard for some reason, or does the setting an example theory prove true in this case. 

I do think the WBSA puts on a great tourney along with OGF when they are involved so I hope nobody takes my comments personal. That is not my intention I do want to be clear of that when I write these posts. I am more less stating my opinion which I am entited too. So I hope nobody takes them the wrong way I mean nothing by it just posting as always.


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## BFG (Mar 29, 2006)

I am guessing here, but I would imagine the cost of the protest filing has to do with the necessity of renting a polygraph and paying someone to interpret the results. 

Easy solution for this problem, as weigh-ins do not need to be difficult, congested, etc. 

Each team drops their cooler and one team member off at a designated point (dock, etc) with their team cooler. A volunteer inspects the cooler, then tapes their cooler shut with their fish-log taped to the inside of the lid. The other members of the team can then proceed to the launch to load their boat and such. 

Easy as can pie...


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## normd (Jul 5, 2005)

Did you say pie? I sure could go for a slice right now!


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

I've got a really long personal reply that I'm waiting to post but here are a few answers to some of your questions from a directors point of view.

#1. We never said it was a dictatorship. We did however respond when ask to interrupt the party and have a vote cast that it was not a Democracy. In hindsite that was a poor thing to say on our part but disrupting the party of about 500 people and kids was not an option. The issue is just too inflammatory and it wouldn't have changed anything anyway except to upset at least a portion of the people there. Protests are used when there is unverifiable information available. There was no question in this instance since both parties openly admitted that it happened.

#2. Jareds explanation of the events occuring were pretty accurate but I take exception to the above and to the Making an example statement. That was never stated by us.

#3. These things are better dscussed in the privacy of a WBSA meeting, (have you been to one Kevin?), but I will respond here about the Tournament Committee. 

We still have a Tournament Committee. It is made up of all the club officers and the tourament director. They are myself, Chuck Hanck, Chris Williams, Dan Gies, Denny Braun, Bob Hanko and Matt Davis. 7 people. We disabanded the old committee when 2 people dropped out and another decided club business needed to be discussed with the general public on a message board not even belonging to the club. It's that simple. Club business is club business. I would normally ignore this one too but my dandar is up from what I consider personal attacks.


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

The cost of the protest thing. This is to help prevent uncalled for and personal protests. Money is refunded if the protest is up held. The club eats it if not. There is a charge to have the lie detector available and then an extra charge if used.


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## kingfisherie (Sep 22, 2007)

this event has shown me why i just fish for fun bunch of tired and dissapointed guys is bound to lead to problems. kind off like waiting to load your boat at vermillion or hot waters people screaming and going off for nothing rules are rules you break them... your gone ....just my opionion


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## Jim Stedke (Dec 5, 2005)

I've started to reply to this about 4 times and everytime it gets too long or involved, and not being a participant I feel like my opinion has little meaning. But ...(you knew I was going to say "but" didn't you!!)

I've fished in over 100 walleye tournaments of all sizes from the smallest to FLW & PWT events, since 1978. I was even on the PWTs Angler Advisory Council in 1994. I've been involved in directing events at various levels, and let me tell you IT AINT NO PICNIC. 

You have a dedicated individual here, who has assembled a good supporting staff. They spend many many hours at no personal benefit to promote our sport, and if we don't let them work this thing out (which I think they will), and we keep beating this dead horse, we're going to run him off.

I'm sure the Directors took no joy in DQing the team, they felt they must in order to preserve the integrity of the event & it's rules.

Marc & Matt are a tournament fishermen and feel the pain of the DQ'd team as only a tournament fisherman could.

I was trying to stay out of this but before I sit here and watch a good thing get set on the road to ruin, I thought I better speak my mind.

This was the worst possible situation, a hard and fast rule inadvertently violated (admittedly so) with no intent to gain an advantage. It's the old rock and a hard place problem. Let's all back off and let the people involved try to work it out.


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## Hawkeye Mike (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree that the rule needed to be upheld as written. Taking two boat numbers to the scales was a clear violation. Marc and the OGF have done a super job growing this event. I understand why Marc's dander is up, as mine would be too from some of the comments more of a personal nature. 

The running of this tournament was first-rate for so many boats in a tight river. It's sometimes a thankless job, which I know takes incredible time. Thanks to the WBSA and OGF for their great efforts.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I was involved in the decision.

I felt terrible for the team and I still do. 

I did not know them, who they were, if they had fish or no fish when we discussed this situation.

I took no pleasure in it nor was an attempt made to make an example of anything or anyone. We did not make this public, we were not going to make this public. We told the team if it became public it would be of their own doings not ours. 

If I were asked to vote with my heart my decision would have been different. However when you're responsible for upholding the integrity of a tournament that is paying out over $11,000 of the participants money you are not permitted that luxury.

The rules and the integrity of the Hawg Fest left me no other recourse with my decision, no matter how much I hated it. 

Anyone that knows me knows that DQ'ing anyone is the last thing I would ever want to do.

Kim


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## spooner (Jun 26, 2004)

I have to jump in here. I was in on ALL of the conversation on this. This was not an easy decision by ANY means and it never is. And DQ's happen a lot more than most of you realize. They just don't get to this extreme. We have had at leat 1 DQ in every HF. And a few in the LEWT. We just have enough integrity not to get up on stage and announce who got DQ'd. Would you want us to do that if it was you? When you take on the responsibility of running a tourney, bad things come with it. There are a lot of things that we have had to do that we may not have wanted to, but that is what builds a good circuit. We are NOT all wishy-washy with the rules , or when an issue comes up, post it on a forum and say "Duh, what should I do"? Would you have ANY confidence in the people running it? We post ALL the standings and the people in it regardless if there are 2 or 20. We have tried to be upfront as possible. We have been on the phone with the coast guard when a boat didn't return. All the participants are important to us. We have put a lot of work into and take pride in what we have tried to build. A series and a Hawgfest that people could take pride in fishing, and a lot of you seem to think that we are on a power trip and were out to get someone. I personally was too busy with all the rest of the stuff to pick out 1 person to pick on. That said, here are my comments.


(I'm just glad that this is being brought out into the open and not swept under the rug like it was at the at the awards ceromony.)It was NOT swept under the rug. We were giving them an opportunity to save face by NOT announcing the DQ. Just as the opportunity has been given to OTHERS at previous Hawgfests. Remember who you are?

(As a tournament director myself (bass tournamnets) and having been a participant in many more, a check-in boat is used to check the number of fish that a team is going to weigh-in and of course to make sure you are on-time.)
So I guess we should have cause a huge clog in the MOUTH of the river to check fish in instead? 

(i actually don't understand why the other team couldn't simply turn in their own card and notify directors as also noted in the rules.)
There lies the problem! They were both wrong. They were both at the rules meeting, they both had printed copies of the rules, and the rules have been posted for ages. That is why they BOTH got DQ'd.

(Look I understand the rules. However something like that really should have been reiterated before blast-off: "You will be DQ'd if you come into contact with another boater, at any time)
So all the rules should have been gone over AGAIN at the start of the tourney? And delay it another half hour? And what about the guy that didn't have his radio turned on, or the guy that was talking to his buddies when that rule was read? EVERY team was given a copy. As well as agreeing to abide by the rules when they signed their entry form (long before the tourney started)! It was THEIR choice to read it or not. It was in their hands.

(With this same ruling, two teams would be DQ'd if one of them has helping another because of a break-down)
That was covered in the rules as well in rule #7 "The only exception to this rule is in an emergency situation. If a competitors boat breaks down another competitor MAY bring their fish to the weigh in and assist with a tow. Any disabled boat must notify the tournament director by radio or phone. "

(What I didn't like about the rules or the ruling is, what does must not come in contact mean.? I happen to BS with two of the other top 10 teams, the whole time coming in the river and in line to weight fish, if you must not come in contact with anyone, those two boats and myself should have all been DQ'ed then along with all the other boats that talked to each other on the way in down the river after checking in.)
Talking and actually being close enough to pass something are totally different. The board was in their posession wich means that were in ACTUAL contact with the other boat. There was no disputing that they had the board. If they had read the rules they could have easily said "no, the rules state you need to turn it in." There are at least 7 boards that never got returned. If a board can be passed, so can anything else. I don't believe he cheated, but the opportunity was there, considering the other boat admitted to them that they had 9 fish but weren't going to weigh them. Again, I don't believe that happened, but that is why the rule is there, so it doesn't.

(If you were at the dinner afterwards, when the award money was being handed out, you would have seen that there are now seasoned professionals bringing their seasoned professional friends with them to go up against us rank amateurs.)
I really don't see where that many "PRO'S" placed in the money. Did I miss it?

(If your team was not given the option to protest, then that IS a huge problem)
What is there to protest. He had the boat board and he stated that is was "HANDED" to him. Thus the contact!

(They: Mark, Kim, and Matt, specifically said that they did not think that we did not cheat. )
The DQ was not for CHEATING. It was for breaking the CONTACT rule.

(I don't feel the tourney is over until i get a weight slip for my catch. im not trying to start an arguement here, im just saying what I felt the end of the tourney was for ME. after weigh in, not check in.)
Personally this is how I see it as well.

(In the future and for the entire 2008 LEWT Series and for 2008 Hogfest I truly hope for the competitors sake the rules are re-written and much more clear as to what "contact" actually is.)
I have found that there is NO clearcut rule. Just as in the workplace. Rules are rules, but they are all open to the offenders interpretation. But the final decision is always up to administration isn't it? Maybe you should have offered your "expertise" up when it was all being set up!

(Like I said double standard for some reason, or does the setting an example theory prove true in this case.)
If we had wanted to do that, (Set an example) we have had plenty of chances to do that in the past. 

Also, it states on the ENTRY form that EVERYONE had to sign..."We agree to abide by all Rules and Regulations set forth by the OGF/WBSA and the state or province where each tournament is held. We agree that the tournament committees decision will be final in all matters. We signify by our signatures below that we have read, understand, and agree to abide by all rules, regulations, and stipulations set forth by the OGF/WBSA"


Most of you have NO IDEA what it takes to run a tournament. I really enjoy doing it up to this point. I have sacrificed a LOT of my own fishing time, to put my time into the WBSA, LEWT and Hawgfest. We used to fish tourneys ourselves, but you can't fish them AND run them. It just doesn't work. So any of you that think you could do better, and want to give up your tournament fishing time to help run these tournaments, as well as your SPARE time to make up the rules, set up the launching areas, go after sponsorships, do paperwork, get the entry forms completed, make calls to guys who don't have their things completed, type up newsletters, run websites etc, let us know! We REALLY would appreciate the help!


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

I want to give my opinion here but before i do that theres two things i want to make clear. One the job that Matt Chris and Marc have done with the lewt and the Hawgfest in the past years is nothing less than remarkable and we all appreciate there efforts in making a great series and events. Two this opinion has nothing to do that Jared and Joe are my friends i would feel this way if it were anyone even a enemy 

The problem with rule number 9 is that its a interpretation Rule. Meaning it doesnt say If YOU TAKE A BOATS BOAT BOARD YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED. WHAT IT DOES SAY IF YOU COME IN CONTACT WITH ANOTHER BOAT YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED. So i ask you guys is taking a boat board considered boat contact in my opinion it is not. I also have fished to PWT FLW and MWC and i can say that handing in boat boards for other boats while you in line to weigh your fish is done peridocally and they dont consider that boat contact and thats for a 50,000 dollar check not a 3000.00 check. 

I also wanted to say that no protest was filed against these guys it was mentioned to them that this happened so the tourney committee did not have that weighing on there shoulders.

Did they make a honest mistake that could have happened to anyone of us? Yes 
Did they intentinally break a rule to increase there advantage in the Tourney. NO.

Thats the difference between doing 67mph in a 65 ( a inoccent mistake)
and getting a warning 

Doing 80mph in a 65 and getting a ticket becasue you knew you were breaking the law!

Bottom line to me is They should have been warned and chaulked up as a unintentional mistake with a no harm no foul and rewarded these kids with a great effort on a very tough day for most

Marc i hope that your comments were not directed towards me about the tourney committee I have done nothing but promote help offer help since its inception even though im not part of it anymore i always offer help and always. tell everyone and yourselves what a great job you guys have done. 

Take Care guys Gary Zart Blue Dolphin


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

! one thing i forgot to mention in the post was the Job Kim brandon dale and all the others from OGF do also you guys have done great with the Hawgfest Gary Blue Dolphin


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## Bob Why (Jul 16, 2004)

I guess I'll ad my 2 cents. I don't know the team that was DQ'd. And I do feel sorry for them and understand their feelings. I know that if it happened to me I would be upset. My interpritation of contact is not talking while waiting to weigh-in. As most talked to each other. This is a fun tourney as well as a money tourney. Boats touching and shaking hands is contact. If you can pass anything back and forth it is contact. If another tourney angler saw this out of the corner of his eye, he/she could have thought that fish were being passed. Or if he was back a ways in the line he may not have seen what was being passed. Passing the check-in point is not the end of the tourney. All they are doing is getting boat numbers to insure all boats are in and on time. The end of the tourney is after the fish are weighed in. I hope that the boat that gave them their number appologized to them. If they had 9 fish, why would they not want to weigh-in?


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## viper205 (Nov 25, 2006)

jared and joe,man do i think you guys were thrown under the bus,and i totaly think they did it to make an example out of you guys,i think you were treated unfairly,i dont belive they would not let george get up on stage and state your case to everyone.that was one of the worst judgement calls i have ever seen and i am so upset on how they were so quick to dq you guys.that left a bad taste in my mouth and i a still upset about the decisions that were made.i think its total bs.and the rules have to be made more specific.like you said you were trying to do them a favor to save a board,next thing you know your dqed,what a pile of bs!well dont let it get you guys down your great fishermen and good friends keep your heads up!!


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## Matt D (Apr 14, 2004)

This is in response to a multitude of the posts that have been made to try to clear some items up. These are MY thoughts and comments only. I see some of Marcs reply is similar to mine but I had been typing on this through out the day as time allows.

This decision was not made lightly and we spent a lot of time discussing it. We also spent time discussing it with our lie detector operator that was on site to make sure we looked at everything as a whole to come to a decision and to get the opinion of the guy we pay to help sort this stuff out if it arises. There was no need for a lie detector test as the question was not whether they cheated but whether they broke rule #9. That was evident and there was no issue of making an example of anyone. Not sure where this came from as it is completely incorrect and I have no idea what would be gained from that anyways?

Contact and communication has been lumped into being the same but that is not the case. If you look in the rules communication is addressed for during the tournament hours and contact is addressed for during the tournament hours in 2 separate rules. The key here is that contact is then specifically addressed for after checking in at the check boat and only means physical contact between teams. 

The democracy comment was made when asked to put it to a vote of everyone at the party and we said This is not a democracy that was the end of the statement with no mention of a dictatorship. Some how that got added by someone other then us. We feel strongly that the enforcement of the rules cannot become a popularity vote. A decision has to be made and that is what we did. That decision is not always going to be popular and we understand that but in this case we do believe the correct decision was made. We also fully understood at the time that not everyone would agree with it. There was not and has not been any effort on our part to sweep anything under the rug but at the same time we were not going to show that team up and told them it was up to them on how much they wanted to tell people.

I can tell you that Kim, Marc and myself did not want to do this anymore then the team in question wanted us to do it but when we looked at the whole picture we decided there was no other decision that could be made. All I would ask is that if you disagree with this try to put yourself in our position and how would you feel trying to defend NOT upholding the rules to someone if they questioned it? That to me would have been impossible and made it apparent what our decision had to be for this.

There has been a lot of talk about giving a warning. That sounds fine and really nice but what happens next year when someone is 1 minutes late? Do they get a warning? If so how about 3 minutes or 5 or 10 minutes? Where do you draw the line? Suddenly it is blurred and quite frankly you have a cluster on your hands. 

The other thing that I have seen noted is the what if scenarios and did we go over the rules in detail. There is no way possible to cover every what if scenario in a rules meeting or set of rules. If you tried it would be never ending and we would all still be setting at the VOL from Friday night. That is the reason I clearly said Friday at the Captains Meeting if anyone had a specific question they could come up and ask myself, Marc or Kim afterwards. 

Anyone that thinks that this decision was made light heartedly on anyones part obviously does not know us at all. As Jim said above, Marc and myself as serious tournament participants can understand and feel for that team but in the end those feelings can not cloud your decision. 

I will say I am quite disappointed in the people that were there ripping us for this decision when not a single one of you came up to me at the awards ceremony and expressed your concerns or tried to get the full story. I think everyone knows there are always two sides to the story yet almost everyone assumes they know all the details after only hearing one side of it. I would hope you now realize that some of the things that are being talked about here have gotten twisted and skewed. 

I could go on but better not. Thank you to everyone that made this a great event.

Matt D


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## blue dolphin (Jul 18, 2004)

In my opinion Matt being late and someone handing you a boat board is comparing apples and oranges. And also approaching you at the awards ceremony was neither the time or place to do it. Gary Blue Dolphin


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

And Matt Kim And Marc And Spooner and the rest who work their ASSES off so you guys who are all mentioned by the original poster as friends and working together keep on bashing those who did everything by the book is pretty sad. 

If you do not like it take it to a private forumn through email, pm, 2-WAY radio whatever it takes! These guys are just triing to keep the great reputation both clubs have and did what the rules stated, why is that up for everyones debate. Bring it up privatly but why DISS 2 great clubs publicly for doing what they hated to do but had too?


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

Obviously George tried to go onstage and state his case.

You did say it was ok for us to tell whomever we wanted!!!!!

We did try and your crew stopped us! Look at ezmarc's post!

Next year why dont you just make stickers that go on windshields so they cant be lost period! and easily printed for every tounament!!


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## Big Daddy (Apr 6, 2004)

As President of OGF, I feel the need to respond. 

I am not on the tournament committee, and was not involved in any debate, discussion or decision on this issue, and rightly so. I fully stand by the tournament committee's decision. They had to make that tough call to preserve the integrity of the event. 

It was a technical mistake that cost all involved dearly. Similarly to when a pro golfer signs the wrong scorecard. Just a mistake, without intent to do harm, and unfortunately, same result.

On a personal note, my heart really goes out to the DQ'd teams.

Also, there are some heated things being stated here that may get taken the wrong way. So, please, if there is any way to do it, deal with those issues directly with the tournament director and committee through PM, phone call, email, whatever. A public discussion will only muddy things up worse that they are already.


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## MEISTERICS (May 15, 2006)

in no way do i think the group did a bad job with the tournament!

They did an awesome job.

Boat cards should be taken out and replaced with large stickers on motors or shoe polish on windshields! especially in congestion.

Hopefully next year there will be a better option.

Hopefully next year rules will be more clearly stated.

The tournament should be technically over when we reach the check boat!

Marc, matt, and kim did a great job.

I still do not think it was right to deny letting it be known to all who participated the day of the event! George demonstrated himself in a professional matter and you denied him what you did say we could do!

You should have solved the problem right there instead of now propelling the situation to a forum of over 10000 members!

Never again will i do anything to help the WBSA cause exception to enter tournaments and pay my dues. Most people would never even join the club again! little lone participate in their events. 

But i guess joe and i love fishing that much that we can overlook our anger and dissappointment.

We did not want to pocket the money! all of the money was going toward gear for next year. Yes all of it!!! We want to fish the MWC.

It just would have been nice to go up on stage and be recognized for our moment of fame and be congratulated for our accomplishment on beating a large number of great fisherman.

This was only our second large event! and first year of chasing eye's on our own!

And as i stated in my original post i know that this does not reflect the organization as a whole.

Thank You

Jared Meisterics


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## chaunc (Apr 11, 2004)

To all the guys who disagree with the decision to enforce the rules, are you planning on fishing next years HF? Because with or without you, there will be one next year. From what i understand, they had to turn away quite a few people because the field was full. Anybody else besides myself, ever have to suffer the consequenses of making a bad decision, with good intentions? 
I hope and pray that no friendships are lost because of this incident. Very, very, very tough situation to deal with. God bless you all.


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## spooner (Jun 26, 2004)

I do feel bad for you, truly. Your big issue seems to be that you couldn't go on stage, state how wrong we were and try to get the whole room to take sides, just like on here. There were people there that really didn't need or want to be drug into that. Sounds like a fun time to me! The whole idea behind this was to have a LOW cost tourney that the regular guy could afford to get into and have fun doing. Rather than the $500, $800, etc entry fees that the big circuits have. The complaint last year was that people couldn't get in because we capped the field. So this year we expand it, still keep the entry low, but because we agreed to take so many boats, modifications had to be put in place to be able to handle that many boats. And STILL there were complaints that people couldn't get in. If you didn't want to fish a STRUCTURED tournament then why did you get in it? Maybe next year, if there is a HF, you guys can run it and handle 100+ boats. There's gonna be complaints either way and I for one am tired of it. If we are so unfair, then the money winners should feel REALLY guilty about their "ILL GOTTEN GAINS". I didn't see anyone refuse their check at ANY time this year. And there are probably guys out there that broke some rules and are sitting back laughing because they didn't get caught. Does that piss me off? Yeah, but we can't monitor 100 boats at once. That's why we rely on others to keep the rules in place. Ever wonder why the "BIG " guys have their names on their motors? It's so if someone DOES see them breaking a rule, they know EXACTLY who it is. Maybe we should demand spotters on all boats. Or better yet, throw out all the rules and have a piece of crap tourney. Fish whenever you want, with as many poles as you want, talk on the radio to your buddies to find the fish and come in whenever you want. While we're at it, why don't we all work together and throw all the fish together too. Like I said, this used to be fun for me. Now I see it's ALL about the money! Not fun anymore!!! Someone can gladly have my job....ALONG with the PAY!!!!!! Because at this point, it really isn't worth it to me anymore. We all worked our asses off for months to make this great for you guys and all we get is crap. Thanks, appreciate it. Go pay $700 to fish a tourney and see how strict they are. Good Luck! They are VERY unforgiving on their rules. Keep picking at the little tourneys and see what you end up with. Remember the USFA, the WWA, and GLWC. Why are they gone? Because of crap like this.
And I can't believe this was just posted...You should have solved the problem right there instead of now propelling the situation to a forum of over 10000 members
YOU are the one that made the original post!!!!!!!

To those of you that appreciated all our efforts, thank you and we are glad you had a great time and didn't have to deal with this crap that night. You are the ones we do it for.


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## BlueMax (Dec 3, 2006)

To Jared - I feel badly for you on the DQ. You feelings are obviously and understandably hurt. I would have felt cheated if in your position.
I did not want to hear your story on stage at the awards ceremony. At that point there was no debate. The tournament officials made their decision on the DQ. The tourney officials made the correct call not allowing you to bring your protest in front of the entire group. That would have led to chaos. That is why there is a small group of people so that a decison can be made. Case closed. 
As far as wanting to go onstage to be recognized for your catch and that the tourney officials denied you that....You obviously have brodcast that news to a much wider audience in this forum than was present at the ceremony. Congratulations to you and your team. You kicked my teams butt.
Maybe you should not have turned in the other teams card. Would I have thought of that? Probably not. Live and learn.

Tournament officials - You ran a great event. Did you make the correct decision? It depends on who you ask. You interpretted the rules under the circumstances presented to you. It must of been a very tough decision. No matter what you do you will only satisfy a percentage of the people...never all of them.
Unfortunately when you mix money in with an otherwise fun activity some of the fun can be removed for some of the people.

Spooner- I actually wrote my comment before reading yours.


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## rippin lip (Dec 3, 2005)

first off thanks to everyone who made this years hawg fest the most organized one ever! - congratulations jared and his team as well as all the other top placers on an outstanding catch on such a tough bite! i try and put myself in both sides shoes and wouldnt have wanted to be in any of them! i would have probably accepted the other teams card as well as i will admit i did not read the rules, got the packet friday and had to rush home to get boat ready and hooked up and try and remember everything and get to bed for the early morning departure - there are always two sides to every story and decisions will always be disputed no matter which way it goes - i just hope this does not interfere with future tourneys and no grudges are held on anyones part.


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## Pond Scum (Jul 7, 2004)

Meisterics, I am not getting involved in the debate, but I do want to clarify a couple of things. I think you are misunderstanding the use of the boat board. The boat board is used for a couple of reasons. At the start of the tournament it is used to assist the field in lining up in order to facilitate an orderly take-off. The board is held up in the air so that it can be seen from a distance and from different angles. This helps boat number 85 find boat number 84, and so on. Secondly, it is used so that the take-off boat can see you from a distance, check you off, and release you to fish. Thirdly, the same applies for when you are checking in at the end of the tournament. You do not want a bunch of boats approaching the take-off or check-in boat from different directions at close quarters while making a wake just so they can read a sticker on your boat. That would not be safe for anyone. Additionally, it is used when checking in your fish to identify the boat and team associated with the fish being weighed. Lastly, you already had a sticker(s) on your boat, which serve similar yet different purposes.

As for your comment about the tournament being over when you pass the check-in boat, I could not disagree with you more. The check-in boats purpose is to log your return and associated time to ensure that no boat is left on the water and to ensure all boats return on time as set forth in the rules. Its purpose is not to check fish. Doing so from a boat in the middle of the lake or river is not very practical or safe. Therefore, there are rules that still need to be followed until the fish being weighed are no longer in your possession. Does the opportunity exist for two teams to pass fish from one boat to the next between the check-in boat and the weigh-in site? Absolutely. Has this very thing occurred in past fishing tournaments leading to this rule being written? Absolutely. Nearly all rules have been written to prevent something from happening *again.* 

Again, I am only commenting on a few things that you said to help clarify why it is done that way.


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## Five C's (Sep 18, 2004)

Guys! Guys! Guys!!!

Can't we all just get along? Life is to short and fishing is supposed to be relaxing and help you blood pressure go DOWN.

Remember it's just a FISH!!!


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## jeffmo (Apr 7, 2004)

this reminds me of the exact reason(s) of why i quit tournament fishing in 1980.
since then fishing has been fun!


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## fugarwi7 (Sep 20, 2006)

I am amazed...105 boats and almost everything, down to the last detail was right on-KUDO's to every VOLUNTEER who made this possible...unfortunately, a great event has been tainted by this incident...certainly many people have expressed their opinion about how the committee interpreted the rule (with which I agree...strict interpretation of any rule, whether vaguely written or not, will preserve the integrity of the event). While I empathize with the teams involved and who no doubt unlocked the key to some nice fish, I can't help but wonder if the same committee ruling would garner the same volume of opinions had the team(s) not "weighed in the money"? 

Hell, I finished in the bottom 25 and seriously doubt if I had made contact and got DQ'd, that too many of you would have given two shi*s about it. True?? If yes, then your reasoning to voice an opinion about the ruling to DQ is conditional and therefore, unfounded. Why blast the event, and those who chair it? Bitching for bitching's sake? Maybe. Whatever the case, I'll bet next year, nobody will violate that rule! These occurrences do one of two things...clearly refine and define the quality of an event or erode it to it's grave...let's hope it's not the latter of the two!! Let it go and be grateful we have a group of people willing to sacrifice blood, sweat, fishing and family time to promote and provide to us a chance to compete, share stories and enjoy the camradery with all involved while doing something we love to do!!! Time to let go of this and move on!!!!


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

Well said, and I concur.


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## GRADY228 (Jun 25, 2005)

jeffmo said:


> this reminds me of the exact reason(s) of why i quit tournament fishing in 1980.
> since then fishing has been fun!


Amen brother, when money is involved it changes it all. It even makes half good people bad sometimes. But unfortunately things happen and another rule needs to be written and on and on. The bad deal was who wants to fish in water that should of maybe been small craft warnings. You fee obligated to fish your hardest and maybe not your safest. Than to rub in your fellow fisherman faces that you wouldn't revel you program is nothing but a slap in the face


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## rattletraprex (Sep 1, 2005)

Captain Kevin said:


> Well said, and I concur.


What fugarwi7 said suns it up for me.


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## another dagos buy (Sep 24, 2007)

well Ive bit my tongue and i want to respond because I've gotten to read all this the day after and I'm quite disappointed in some of the responses.

MEISTERICS wrote "Never again will i do anything to help the WBSA cause exception to enter tournaments and pay my dues. Most people would never even join the club again! little lone participate in their events." are you saying that you are not going to fish in the hawgfest again. this is a tourney sponsored by the WBSA. and the reason i believe that the WBSA is there is because the OGF has never run a tourney and needed some help. the WBSA has put in a lot of time to this and other tourneys so that you can one day fish those other big tourneys that you say you want to do. i hope that one day you can look back at this as a learning experience. 

blue dolphin wrote "In my opinion Matt being late and someone handing you a boat board is compaing apples and oranges." i think your right gary, it is, that is why they are addressed in two different lines and stated that they will be "TREATED" as being late, are they the same no, but they will be "TREATED" that way. gary, if you were fishing in the FLW or any of the like would you have told a co-angler (someone that you know personally) that you are going to check them in at weigh in? if anyone knows its you that the tourney is not over until you weigh your fish, i think it would be you! you dont know where you stack up with the rest of the field until you weigh your fish. 

MEISTERICS wrote "Hopefully next year there will be a better option.
Hopefully next year rules will be more clearly stated." 
to this i say hopefully next year boat captains will be a little more involved in meetings/commitees instead of this this being a bash on the tournament and its commitee. a tournament is only as good as its participants. that includes you MEISTERICS, you Gary, all the anglers, all of the commitee, all of the club members, all of the volunteers, and yes all of the family members and friends that come to the dinner after the tourney.

you said that you wanted your moment of fame but i agree with matt, marc, and KIM (OGF NOT WBSA), i personally think that it would have turned into a moment of shame. you cannot tell me that you or your team members would not tried to have a heated argument on the stage. and i quote you in your very first post "I really thought this was a family and friends fun event." you did say family and friends and you did use the word FUN. do you think that that would have happened had they let you on the stage. i will be the first to say that it would have ruined my day even more.

you want to fish the MWC there are going to be some vauge rules ( or as gary put it "interpritation") in there as well. but you can 'offer' to help or you can write a post on here and bash only the WBSA for how they run ther tornements. in my opinion you are bashing all the effort that the WBSA (exspecially cris marc and matt) has put into this. this was a joint effort.

in final i will write this. next year (or this year) when you see a post that is for lookin for input or volunteers maybe you should step up to the plate and give your 2cents before the tournament starts. 'OFFER' to help go to the meetings and READ THE RULES. if there something that you want clarified ask, give opinion, interperit before the tourney not after. dont go to the meetings and b.s. give input offering help and giving help are two different things. you want it to be fun,YOU make it fun.


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## BigV (Nov 11, 2004)

> 4. Safety
> Safety must be observed at all times. Each contestant is to follow all Coast Guard regulations. No Alcoholic beverages or illegal substances may be consumed or in possession by teams during fishing hours.



Perhaps random drug/alcohol testing should be done to insure no rule 
violation(s) have occurred


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## Captain Kevin (Jun 24, 2006)

This is the last post I'm going to make on this thread. I have read from many folks here what is nothing more than a bunch of "kids wanting to cry". Some of you bitching here wasn't even at the event, never tried to get in the event, and for that matter probably couldn't catch a disease at a Leper Colony. I have had the honor of knowing Chris, Matt, and Marc for a long time. They are class people period. If you guys keep pissing and moaning and run Chris off, I wouldn't blame Marc for telling the group to go get bent. Then were are we??? You jack wads don't know how good you got it. Again I emphisize WHO'S TO BLAME?????? The lazy guy who didn't weigh. Why wouldn't a guy with 9 fish supposedly not want to weigh????? That in itself makes me wonder what really was going on. The original poster made a piss poor choice in airing this here in an open forum, then some of what i used to consider some of the "power sticks" of the site "pile on" like it's a game of "smear the queer". I have real bad habit of speaking my mind, without being too politically correct because it is, what it is. OVER!!!! The rest of you who want to cry like infants, man up, and talk to these folks face to face. I'll bet most of you won't, and I bet most of you will shake their hands and be all buddy,buddy the next time you see them. Is that how you would teach your kid to be?? I'd bust my kids ass if they behaved like many of you have here. In closing, I want to simply thank those who put this event on. You ran it TO PERFECTION. I can't wait until next year's L.E.W.T., and Hawgfest. Those that wish to bash me now, feel free. However I would prefer you address me face to face.


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## FreeByrdSteve (Jun 28, 2004)

Probally time for this to be put to bed - what happened isn't going to change at this point and hopefully this experience can help refine the event.

I've been on both sides of this having been a tournament director in the past (Huron Booster's Tournament and some of the initial WBSA events). I can assure you that no matter what decision get's made there will be people that don't like it regardless of the issue. Being a tournament director is a thankless job for sure. The work that Matt, Marc, Chris and so many volunteers have done to make the LEWT and Hawgfest the success it is today is hard to even comprehend if you haven't been involved with the organizing and running of these type of events.

I've had to DQ people before during a tournament including someone that was a real good friend. A DQ is never a good situation and I'm positive that there was nothing malicious intended by the DQ towards any specific team. the people running the Hawgfest & LEWT are very professional in how they do things. I have also BEEN DQ'd - in last year's Hawgfest. I made a mistake and was running late coming in to the Huron River. I made a choice to take a chance of going back up on plane to make it across the check-in point in time and made it by about 10 seconds, but admittedly broke the no wake rule to give myself a chance to make it. There were some complaints (rightly so) and I was DQ'd. It WAS handled with class - tournament officials approached me after we weighed fish and told me the decision. I didn't like it, but realized that I caused the problem for myself by running late. Nobody made a big production about me being DQ'd which I appreciated - the only reason people knew is because people asked me how we finished & I told them. Granted I didn't have a 3rd place catch but at the time we were DQ'D I think we were in the money - but I've done enough tournaments to know I put myself in that position last year and let it go.

The real tough thing here is the incident of turning in someone else's boat board - even though the passing of the boat board was done within sight of the weigh-in and within sight of lots of other teams was something that clearly had nothing to do with gaining any advantage in terms of fishing (unlike being late where you had more time on the water), and is something that probally most anyone else would have done if someone asked them to turn in a boat board. I did it a few weeks ago and honestly would have done it again if someone asked me to, thinking that I was helping in two ways - 1) reducing conjestion & time at the weigh-in site, and 2) Making sure the boat boards got turned in. I guess I would have been DQ'd. Not sure if I should have been DQ'd a few weeks ago at the LEWT in Vermilion or not as I think the rule was written a bit different then but maybe I was in violation...

I do think that a big part of the success of the LEWT and Hawgfest is that the group running things does the best job possible in getting all the rules / times / locations, etc. published in advance and sticking with their decisions and trying to do things as consistently and "to the letter" as much as possible. Do I alway's agree with the way things are handled? Nope - BUT I RESPECT THE JOB THEY DO AND THE FACT THAT THIS GROUP MAKES DECISIONS AND STICKS TO THEIR DECISIONS even when sometimes unpopular. Personally I probally would have made a different decision regardless of the team involved as I would try to look at intent and if what happened affected the outcome at all - but I can also see the side of going strictly by the book as well because once you start changing things it opens up a big can of worms.

Earlier on it was mentioned that a lot of rules and procedures that are in place for tournaments are there based on things that happened in previous events. One idea to consider would be to have the check-in boat collect the boat boards as teams check in. I've fished some tournaments where this happens (Michigan Walleye Trail) and then as you drop off your boat board you tell the check-in boat if you are weighing fish and how many. The check in boat does NOT look at your fish. They give you another numbered chip which signifies the order you weigh your fish (the order you came back in - not your boat number) and the weighin location calls you to the weighin location by weigh-in chip number. This would definitely increase the workload at the check-in boat - and maybe just cause conjestion there instead of at the weigh-in location so don't know if that solves anything or not. Maybe just offer the opportunity to turn in your weigh-in board at the check in boat if you do NOT plan to weigh fish.

Regardless of where one sides on this decision there are a couple things that most people should agree on:

1) THANKS TO ALL THE SPONSORS AND VOLUNTEERS AND TOURNAMENT COMMITTEE THAT ALLOWED THIS EVENT TO TAKE PLACE AND TO ALL THE WORK THAT GOES INTO IT THAT MOST PEOPLE NEVER REALIZE.

2) THE TAKEOFF AND OVERALL CHECK-IN AND WEIGH-IN PROCEDURE WENT AMAZINGLY SMOOTH. I NEVER THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE TO WEIGH THAT MANY TEAMS IN THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU GUYS DID. JOB WELL DONE!

3) CONGRATS ON A REAL NICE CATCH BY JARED'S TEAM. THE OUTCOME IS UNFORTUNATE BUT YOU GUYS ARE OFF TO A GREAT START IN THE NEW BOAT.

4) THIS WILL BE A REMINDER FOR EVERYONE TO MAKE SURE WE ALL READ AND UNDERSTAND ALL THE RULES IF WE ARE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO FISH ANOTHER EVENT LIKE THE HAWGFEST.

5) ANYONE THAT IS WILLING TO VOLUNTEER WITH RUNNING FUTURE TOURNAMENTS SHOULD OFFER THEIR HELP AS IT WILL WELCOMED.

6) FALL FISHING SHOULD REALLY BE GOOD THIS YEAR SO LET'S ALL GO HAVE SOME FUN ON THE WATER.

Steve Carlson


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

What a shame.... My response to fishing for a living thread in April 2006 is entirely appropriate here. I hope friendships aren't lost as they have in the past over similiar incidents....

http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=45310&highlight=money+fishing




> papaperch beat me to it. As soon as money gets involved with something, whatever it is, it's gone, it's ruined.
> It could be family, friends, women, a hobby or a passion.
> 
> You see it all the time. Tourny guys complaining so-and-so is cheating or unethical, so-and-so is butting in on my fishing areas.
> ...


 I don't fish tournaments for exactly this reason.


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## bassin420 (Apr 30, 2004)

Captain Kevin said:


> This is the last post I'm going to make on this thread. I have read from many folks here what is nothing more than a bunch of "kids wanting to cry". Some of you bitching here wasn't even at the event, never tried to get in the event, and for that matter probably couldn't catch a disease at a Leper Colony. I have had the honor of knowing Chris, Matt, and Marc for a long time. They are class people period. If you guys keep pissing and moaning and run Chris off, I wouldn't blame Marc for telling the group to go get bent. Then were are we??? You jack wads don't know how good you got it. Again I emphisize WHO'S TO BLAME?????? The lazy guy who didn't weigh. Why wouldn't a guy with 9 fish supposedly not want to weigh????? That in itself makes me wonder what really was going on. The original poster made a piss poor choice in airing this here in an open forum, then some of what i used to consider some of the "power sticks" of the site "pile on" like it's a game of "smear the queer". I have real bad habit of speaking my mind, without being too politically correct because it is, what it is. OVER!!!! The rest of you who want to cry like infants, man up, and talk to these folks face to face. I'll bet most of you won't, and I bet most of you will shake their hands and be all buddy,buddy the next time you see them. Is that how you would teach your kid to be?? I'd bust my kids ass if they behaved like many of you have here. In closing, I want to simply thank those who put this event on. You ran it TO PERFECTION. I can't wait until next year's L.E.W.T., and Hawgfest. Those that wish to bash me now, feel free. However I would prefer you address me face to face.




Lets see if I can get this straight, You have a foul mouth even over the internet, Nobody on here catches fish except you, You say everyone is complaining and whining but you sound the same, You have a very large chip on your shoulder that you sound like you would like someone to knock off, You are a chid abuser and you have company's that sponsor you (according to your posting signature) and your attidude in some fashion. Wow, you sound like a stand up guy I would want my children around ( yea right!) and you do an exellent job as a sponsored fishermen (yea right!) I have been following these threads and although I thought some things were out of context, I still thought they were going fairly well and there were no physical threats and most were calming down as the threads progressed, until I read yours which prompted me to post. If anyone needs to get a life I would vote for you and you might want to rethink you statments because as I was told since a youngster, be careful what you wish for you just might get it! I want to apologize in advance to the mods and hope I did not stir the pot even more, I just think this guy was way too confrontational in his thread and I thought this kind of thing would not be allowed on this family site as I was once dragged into a disscussion along these lines and was talked to through pm by the mods and rightfully so and have since to make the same mistake again.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Time for everyone to move forward


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