# Deformed Muskie



## fish-a-lot (Mar 12, 2007)

Fished a gravel pit yesterday, not much luck, so I
stopped by the Little Miami River to try a few casts
for muskie. Caught this little 30 incher, he should 
have been longer, but check out his deformed tail.
He was released after photo.


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## mirrocraft mike (Mar 17, 2006)

Fish a lot 
I have seen that on a few perch in my day but never on a larger fish . Looks like some thing tagged it when it was younger . Cool Pic.


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## WalleyeJones (Feb 15, 2006)

I've caught many fish with deformed spines. I just throw them all back. They're too much of a pain to clean. They make me wonder about our water quality in Ohio. I don't remember catching any deformed fish when I lived in Minnesota...


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Caught a Northern in Canada that was shaped like a "z". It was about 20" long unstretched and I figure around 25" if measured along the "z".


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## NewbreedFishing (Apr 15, 2004)

and he is on the stringer now so you have put him out of his misery.


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## LMRsmallmouth (Jan 10, 2006)

That's 2 on a stringer this week....Hmmm


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

A study was done a few years back on the LittleMiamiRiver's water quality. Deformed smallies were showing up with regularity. Seems chemicals from run off , mainly from farmers fields are the culprit. And as a side note , and I really don't care what people do with their fish, but putting a muskie on a stringer? Do you eat these critters? I have never heard of people actually eating a muskie. THE CATKING !!!


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Sorry , just realized you said you released this fish after picture. But I thought muskie were fragile as far as returning them asap once they were unhooked.Nice fish anyhow, and I know the little miami has many muskie , far more than one thinks... THE CATKING !!!


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## LMRsmallmouth (Jan 10, 2006)

If you think there is a chemical runoff problem in the LMR then the GMR must be a toxic waste zone. LMR is MUCH cleaner than the GMR....but yes, there are obviously some environmental concerns on the river. (although LMR is less polluted than most rivers in the area.) I have caught a few deformed smallies myself in LMR.


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## mirrocraft mike (Mar 17, 2006)

Catking

I have never kept a Muskie . But I did camp with a group from Ohio in Canada ( Trent River )that kept and grilled all there Muskies . Being curious i had to try some. It wasn't that bad to my surprize . They did spice it up though .It has more texture to it and alot firmer than most fish . I still won't keep any to clean . Just my personal choice . The fight is a lone is my reward .


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

About 40 years ago I caught a 31" Musky in NY. Back then I ate what I caught as it reduced the budget and I had a growing family. That fish was quite tasty and was a darn site better than the bass I had caught out of the same lake. I no longer fish for Musky and have not kept any which I catch by accident.


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## Akillis (Mar 2, 2007)

twin creek has quite a few deformed smallies in it as well maybe it is a thing from the farmers, and iv caught some big suckers out of there all deformed as well. im kinda new on this thing but i figured it trough that out


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## Katmandu (Mar 3, 2007)

I know Ohio EPA uses a formula called DELT when measuring water quality/fish health. DELT stands for Deformities, Eroded fins, Lesions, Tumors. I believe this is only a small part of what they use and they concentrate more on how many fish and what kinds...I would think the fact there are so many smallies and muskies would show LMR to be great quality water, even if a few are messed up. 
Praying for warmer weather and a chance to sit on the banks of Rocky Fork letting the cats ingnore me.


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## bigjohn513 (Apr 6, 2004)

I c&r almost all fish I catch but I would have removed that one from the gene pool


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for opening my eyes on the eating of some muskie...but I would have never ate " 1 " as in my signature....LOL !!! THE CATKING !!!


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

i saw one about the same size last spring with the same deformity

the deformities first off are genetics mutations
twin creek is one of the 5 cleanest rivers in ohio it in fact has most species diversity than any other body of water in the state so i doubt its farm runoff there.
also the threat to the lmr water quality is not the farms anymore, the biggest threat is all these nice new neighborhoods in places like mason and lebbanon. a study done in 2006 showed that the average person in mason uses 6 times the recomended amount of fertilizer. thats alot of nitrates running into our river. if we cant figure out a way to stop people from well being idiots more obsessed with green lawns than thier water source, the lmr may end up having enough chemical to deform fish, but for now theres no way.
btw the gmr is sewage compared to the lmr several years ago a study showed that montgomery county i.e. dayton was the second most polluted co. in the nation, thats just digusting


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## WalleyeJones (Feb 15, 2006)

Pike and muskie are excellent table fare! Better than any bass. I think some people don't like fooling with them because they are considered too slimy. 

I used to work for the OEPA and there aren't many rivers or streams that I would eat a fish out of. ALL lakes and rivers have some sort of consumption advisory...and God forbid if there's something stirring the river upstream (like dredging or construction). They're all polluted with PCBs, pesticides, heavy metals, etc. They eventually settle out, but can be stirred up again. Those compounds don't just magically go away (part of their problem). They're very stable and very cancerous. Even the LMR...ODNR says one meal per month from anywhere in the LMR for sauger. If it's bad for sauger...just think about all the other fish (especially cats). Sorry catking...


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## Katmandu (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm not too worried about eating fish out of streams, most problems are from Mercury...naturally occuring and from fallout of power plants. I would assume Department of Health (who issues the advisories) would set strictest levels possible based on most up to date research...and to cover their own butt if something bad happens. So just follow their recommendations and enjoy! Also, they have actually doubled the amount of fish you can consume from Paint Creek Lake and CJ Brown...cleaner than expected. As for sauger, they are usually ranked close to catfish and bottom feeders based on their hanging so close to bottom (still sorry catking!).


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

fish-a-lot, has anyone ever told you how much you look like john prine?


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## WalleyeJones (Feb 15, 2006)

Katman...you need to check the Feb. 2007 fish advisory update for CJ Brown. I think you might be surprised. CJ specifically took a slight turn for the worse.

Also, I would never 'assume' anything. They have extra precautions for the very young and pregnant. Just because a fish looks healthy doesn't mean jack.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but like I've said, I used to work for the ODNR Corporate Office in Columbus...and that's all I'm going to say about that - Forest Gump.


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## 1badmthrfisher (Apr 4, 2005)

It looks like a housing developement in the backround of that pic......not the river... and to just randomly go to the LMR targeting musikie and actually catch one....I have some disbelief to that. Muskie are not very common in that river at all... Maybe at the spillway of Toddsfork and cowan....which several miles later hits the LMR....................


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## BlueBoat98 (Nov 5, 2004)

Actually, I believe the fish consumption advisory for C.J. was an improvement. They went from "one meal a week" to "two." Isn't that better?

MC


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## MuskieJim (Apr 11, 2007)

I added a photo on my profile of a deformed muskie that i caught up in new york. his back looks like it was broken as a fingerling and he still survived.


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## Weatherby (May 27, 2005)

Yeah I don't think that this particular deformity has to do with water contamination. It looks as if the muskie was injured at some point and has just grown this way.


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## WalleyeJones (Feb 15, 2006)

BlueBoat98 said:


> Actually, I believe the fish consumption advisory for C.J. was an improvement. They went from "one meal a week" to "two." Isn't that better?
> 
> MC


I don't know where you're getting your info, but I'm getting mine from the following ODNR links. There was no specific advisory for CJ in 2006 (See link #1). Then in Feb '07 they added both CJ Brown and Paint Creek for bluegills and walleye/saugeye (Link #2). No advisories were lessened that I can see.

http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/fishadvisory/limitmeals.html#Chagrin

http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/fishadvisory/2007NewFishAdvisories.pdf.


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## Weatherby (May 27, 2005)

"No specific advisory" means one meal per week. 

http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/fishadvisory/overall.html


Says CJ Brown walleye are good for 2 meals per week.


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## WalleyeJones (Feb 15, 2006)

I see where you're getting that info. It's odd that they don't mention bluegill. Ideally, there shouldn't be any restrictions. As the state continues to sample specie to specie, lake to lake they will get better and better information. Don't assume that all species from all lakes and streams are studied on an annual basis. Resources are limited at the DNR and EPA. 

Lakes are certainly healthier than rivers. I'll eat fish out of the lakes without hesitation, but not the rivers.


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## rblake (May 12, 2005)

Lakes are certainly healthier than rivers. I'll eat fish out of the lakes without hesitation, but not the rivers.

How do you figure that? All the lakes around here are bascially dammed rivers.


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## WalleyeJones (Feb 15, 2006)

I 'figure' that based on data from fish sampled and tested.

True, most lakes are resevoirs, but I don't know of any in our area that are dammed rivers. Most are either small streams or man-made canals that feed into the lakes. And none that I'm aware of have ever had heavy industry on them. It's heavy industry that abused the river systems.

I know you guys who consume fish from rivers don't like hearing it, but I'm not the one saying it. This isn't entirely just my opinion. Check the data. Believe what you want to believe. Eat what you want to eat. Doesn't matter to me...I don't think less of anyone. You should be informed, however.


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## scrawfrd02 (Jul 27, 2005)

Ha hell yeah, he does look like john prine.... prines the man. freakin hilarious.... how the heck can i catch a muskie in the lmr.... i want one now


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## rblake (May 12, 2005)

I assume you meant to spell it "reservoir".

I guess it depends on your definition of river. If the only thing that falls into the category of a river in SW OH is the Ohio and the GMR then yes I would agree the fish from rivers probably have more contaminants than a fish from Eastfork might have. 

I don't eat the fish I catch anyway. 

You are probably correct that there are less advisories for lakes than there are for rivers, streams, creeks or whatever you want to call them. However all of the "pristine" lakes that you are fishing are formed from the damming of these same polluted tributaries. Where does the mercury go? I guess it stops at the headwaters of every lake.

And by the way East fork is a dammed river according to the corp.

"William H. Harsha Lake was authorized under the Flood Control Act of 1938. The Louisville District of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers designed, built, and operates the project to reduce flood damages downstream from the dam. The dam is about four miles south of Batavia, Ohio, on the East Fork of the Little Miami River."

http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/fishadvisory/limitmeals.html#counties

Oh yeah, data is made to be manipulated.


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## CCRiley2 (Sep 18, 2006)

WalleyeJones said:


> True, most lakes are resevoirs, but I don't know of any in our area that are dammed rivers. Most are either small streams or man-made canals that feed into the lakes.


Quote of the year!!!!
Is any of the lakes your referring to listed here?
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/water/pubs/Open_File_Rpts/05_Natural_Lakes_in_Ohio_1991.pdf
There are almost no natural lakes in Ohio.


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## fish-a-lot (Mar 12, 2007)

In response to 1 badmthrfisher- there are more muskie in 
or river systems than you might think. I fish approx. 350 
days a year, about 50 days targeting muskie. My best
year was 37 muskie, all from Lmr, Cowan and Todds fork.
I got 35 muskie in another year. My best day was 5
Muskie, I have caught 3 or more muskie in one day 17 
different times. After 40+ years of fishing, I know where 
they live and how to catch them. 
The muskie population in the Little Miami River is increasing
due to Caesars Creek Lake being stocked. I believe that 80%
of muskie stocked in Cowan go over the spillway and thru
the discharge tube, and quite a few come out of Caesars 
Creek as well.


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## Akillis (Mar 2, 2007)

Eat fish if ya wanna eat fish your more than likely gonna die in a car wreck than eatin a bad fish. or cigarettes, or a plane crash at that. if ya like to eat em eat em. honestly your more likely to die catchin them than eatin em. i personally only eat waleye and perch but thats what i like. ill eat em out of any lake in this state. but growing up in the burg i think im immune to most toxic things haha


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## Katmandu (Mar 3, 2007)

I appreciate your opinion WalleyeJones, and if working for the state has jaded you to opinions of Ohio water quality, so be it. The important thing is we do have a very active state EPA/DNR/Dept of Health, and even with limited resources they provide a ton of information for us and continue to toughen the levels that are considered "a concern". So for any lake to double the amount of fish that could be consumed is a great thing. I would also agree that certain "rivers" are very contaminated, but those are well documented already. As for the rivers forming reservoirs thing, there is no technical definition on the books for what is a river vs. stream, some "streams" or "creeks" are longer than some rivers, its just what someone decided to call it. There was always the idea that 100miles made a body of water a river, but in all my searching, that is not the case. If anything, you would think reservoirs would be more polluted since that is where alot of mud and debris settle out as water slows down, but not usually the case...maybe that goes back to your idea that the constant stirring of the stream bed keeps contaminates closer...good question though. As for PaintCreek, that lake has massive flows in spring, so again, may go back to usage issues upstream. 
I guess I'm not too worried about what I eat, unless there are strict warnings on not eating anything, life is too short and no matter what, we are all going to kick-off anyway. Plus, I am such a bad fisherman, I am luck to catch enough for a meal a month!!


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## WalleyeJones (Feb 15, 2006)

CCRiley obviously doesn't understand the discussion or just jumped in in the middle. Nope, not talking about natural lakes. Unfortunately, Ohio just doesn't have many. I'm talking about rivers vs. streams or canals that 'create' lakes. Most lakes in Ohio are reservoirs (spelling police) and almost all are dammed streams...not to be confused with rivers. Mercury is present in all lakes, streams, rivers, etc. This is because mercury can be volatile and spread mostly by air (from primarily power plant exhaust). Dioxins, PCBs, pesticides, herbicides, etc. are in much higher concentrations in rivers due to heavy industry historically being present on them. 

Like I said before, you may not like hearing it, but rivers are far more contaminated than lakes. There are even some streams that are under 'do not eat' restrictions. Dick's and Mill Creeks come to mind. Where do they flow into? Are fish in those streams not allowed to swim down stream? 

Hell, just look at the DNR's restrictions link and compare. Sure there's a couple Cleveland lakes that aren't good, but mostly it's rivers that have the biggest problems. If you don't agree, then you're just in denial. Facts are facts.

It all flows down hill...


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## catking (Apr 5, 2004)

Very nice on going discussion guys.....By the way , I only eat FARM raised catfish....momma didn't raise a fool....and another side note..lakes in the prestine upper pennisula of Michigan for the most part ALL have fish advisories....natural mecury is the culprit and it is quite the problem. many people insist on eating the fish saying" I've eaten it for years and have no problems..." but the fact is , PCB's and mercury are stored in ones fat for literally DECADES and that next meal might trigger the cancer one gets from eating contaminated foods....something to think about.... THE CATKING !!!


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## LMRsmallmouth (Jan 10, 2006)

To each his own I guess. I am strictly catch and release anyway (except ocassional crappie or Saugeye), but it seems to me that those of you that spend all your time and thoughts worrying about what you can/can't eat are more likely to die of stress related causes than those who like to eat what they catch around here ocassionally. If you wanna eat, so be it, if you don't, that is fine too. I am sure the toxins in my ciggs or alcohol are more likely to kill me than the occasional fish I eat. My grandfather lived to be 73 eating multiple fish entrees a week from lakes and streams, my cousin died at 42 from diabetes and was a vegetarian. This issue is getting old as I dont think any of 1 sides comments are going to change the other sides mind. The only difference is that one side is getting to reap the benefits of a tasty meal and the other side gets to eat the (processed) foods from the restraunt or grocery and has to keep up on their stress meds.


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## WalleyeJones (Feb 15, 2006)

Good points catking and LMRSmall. PCBs are cumulative. This means that we act like filters and accumulate these toxins over time. Fish are the same way, except we ingest what they've been accumulating. That's why you see more restrictions on larger fish. 

I eat a lot of fish...both at restaurants, Ohio Lakes, Minnesota, and my annual Gulf trip. I don't stress about it and feed them to my wife and little ones. I've been an OEPA certified drinking water analyst and know where most of the bad water is located in this state (fyi, that info is public if you can navigate OEPA's website). I have frozen fish, geese, ducks, etc., sliced them with a reciprocating saw, homoginized and extracted the sample, and ran them on gas chromatographs and low-level mercury analyzers. I've seen the results and the restrictions that are posted are (in my opinion) not strict enough. 

As I said before, I don't care either way and don't care what anybody eats. I've waded and fished many streams and rivers in Ohio...I just choose not to eat any fish out of them.

Is it more stressful to make that distinction or to still have doubts and eat it anyway? 

Now lets talk about mad cow........


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## Katmandu (Mar 3, 2007)

My compliments to all...esp. WalleyeJones for his insight, and even though the thread is getting long, the discussion was enjoyable. I shall now retire with my pipe and fly tying supplies and try to come up with some new patterns for crappie (tis the season) and catfish (I'm sure they are out there!). BTW...nice catch on the Muskie that started it all!


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2007)

> thru
> the discharge tube


Will you tell me more about this tube? I thought that they only way that fish could get to the creek was it the fell over top the dam.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2007)

yep you two could be twins


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## 1badmthrfisher (Apr 4, 2005)

This is in response to fish alot:

As for fishing 350 days a year..??????.... Conditions dont even allow that to be possible, whether its sub zero temperature, or FLOODING (which accurs quite often in the winter especially... 
And 80 percent of muskies go through the discharge tube??? HAHAHAHA ok, so that means 80 percent of all other fish too right?? Why just muskies....and as for there being good numbers of muskie in the LMR.... I fish thatt river prolly as much as anybody does and I have yet to see one/catch one. (Im sure i will someday but its not a very common thing.)


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## riverKing (Jan 26, 2007)

badmtherfisher
i think 80% is high but have you seen the spillover
an unnatrually high number of skis go over that thing, which is why todds fork has been know as good ski water since the 80's. also if you fish that river alot you should have seen skis come out of it, i dont fish for them there but i lost 13 in 05, last year there numbers were down probably due to the low spring, in fact if you want to see one caught i will take you fishing for them, theres enough that if you know where they are you atleast get a follow the majority of the time. its just you need to know where
i have also seen fish-a-lot catch muskie last spring, atleast it was a guy that looks alot like him, and it was in the area he fishes


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## 1badmthrfisher (Apr 4, 2005)

I have hooked a couple muskie right below the spillway.. I know that they are there and very catchable in todds fork. I just dont think they are that plentiful in the LMR. Im sure the numbers are growing... but i have yet to see any and i fish south of todds fork ALL THE TIME!!!! I not trying to call anyone a liar.... just questioning the LMR part..


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## big_b16 (Oct 17, 2004)

fish-a-lot said:


> Fished a gravel pit yesterday, not much luck, so I
> stopped by the Little Miami River to try a few casts
> for muskie. Caught this little 30 incher, he should
> have been longer, but check out his deformed tail.
> He was released after photo.


Are there places on the LMR that are immediately adjacent to a driveway leading into a garage? I'm far from an LMR expert but from the several places I've fished or driven past, I don't know of any houses that close due to flooding issues.


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