# Bought my first kayak



## yakmanley (Apr 16, 2009)

I bought an Ascend FS10 sit-in from BPS last week. Can't wait to get on the water and try it out. If anyone fishes Acton/Rush Run or any of the creeks and rivers in the Butler/Warren County area, I'd appreciate any advice on kayaking the area. Also, if anyone would like meet up for a fishing expedition in the area, let me know.


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## meathelmet (Aug 4, 2008)

yakmanley said:


> I bought an Ascend FS10 sit-in from BPS last week. Can't wait to get on the water and try it out. If anyone fishes Acton/Rush Run or any of the creeks and rivers in the Butler/Warren County area, I'd appreciate any advice on kayaking the area. Also, if anyone would like meet up for a fishing expedition in the area, let me know.


Yakmanley,

Congrats on your Yak you will enjoy it.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

It looks like a Vapor 10 imitation. Identical in hull design, cockpit, weight and capacity. You're gonna love it!--Tim................................................................................................................


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## Bowhunter57 (Feb 9, 2011)

yakmanley,
Congradulations and welcome to the world of kayaks and canoes!  Enjoy!

Good hunting, Bowhunter57


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

That's a great boat! I looked at them last week.
It's a much better design and quality that that Old Town Vapor. The cockpit on the Ascend isn't as cavernous, and you can reach the front deck more easily.

Very good pruchase, man! You're going to LOVE it!!


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery! And the Ascend FS10 does a great job of ripping off the best features of Old Towns hugely popular yak the Vapor 10. Start with a 10ft. yak, 29" wide, 20"x48" cockpit, add a stern deckwell, make it weigh 44lbs. with a 325lb capacity. Add bungee and fishing hardware and there you have it. The Ascend FS10 uses these features but adds an inch or 2 here, a couple of pounds there, and what'd'ya know, a great fishing yak, what an original design! LOL! Compare! --Tim....................................................






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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Ahhhhh, yes.... Karl Benz might have been the first to put a gas powered engine in an automobile, but Carroll Shelby mastered it.

Old Town may have been first on the stern deckwell, but the rest they borrowed just like everyone else. 

And the Ascend improves on nearly everything. The cockpit is designed much better as the Vapor's is way too large.
It has "grooves" on each side of the cockpit for a paddle or rod holder. The front deck is flat for a deck bag. The deckwell is more functionally designed. The seat is much nicer. And it's made of a sturdier polymer compound.

Obviously, I was impressed with the attention to design on a modestly priced boat.


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## leovpin (Mar 18, 2009)

I have a Vapor 10 and I love it but I do admit that the Ascend is a cool boat. They got it right with the rear well, you can actually fit a milk crate or tackle bag in that thing. On the Vapor, all I can put in there is a small cooler and that is it. The seat seems way nice too.

BPS came out with a 12 foot SINK with a tunnel hull, which makes it possible to stand and fish from the thing. 

Congrats on the boat and let us know when you slime it for the first time.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

Bubbagon said:


> Ahhhhh, yes.... Karl Benz might have been the first to put a gas powered engine in an automobile, but Carroll Shelby mastered it.
> 
> Old Town may have been first on the stern deckwell, but the rest they borrowed just like everyone else.
> 
> ...


First of all, I'm very impressed you're on a first name basis with old Karl and Carroll, Say hello for me, won't you? 

The large cockpit in the Vapor is a huge advantage as long as your not whitewatering. In and out is infinitely, easier and guess what, all your gear is right in front of you easily accessible, safe and sound, below deck. Oh! and the grooves for the paddle? Ripped off from the Vapor! Bubba!, didn't you compare? It's right in the photo. Both yaks have a front deck, flat or not, but unreachable in normal transit, not "practical on the water access". The functional design of the stern deckwell is moot because it's just a trunk. No way in hell you are going to reach it effectively from your seat on the water, remember you're not in a SOT. You obviously, haven't seen the seat in the Vapor XT or Angler. The polyethylene compound on the Vapor, It's not virgin, the way you like it. But all in all the The Ascend FS10 copys all the right features, It's heavier, wider but slower,It should be slightly more stable because of its width, but it has a shallower depth and thus freeboard and the higher seat placement negates any stability advantage. But the price is right, a great value yak for the $. Paddle Well! --Tim....................................................................................................................................................................


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Not only did I look closely, more closely than you, but I've paddled the Vapor several times, only sat in the Ascend.

Paddle holders on the SIDES. Not just the little indentation across the deck, but parallel with the boat, along the sides of the cockpit. These also make great rod holders, when cobined with the grooving on the boat.









And you can indeed reach the front deck of the Ascend, easily. I sat in it and specifically tried to do that as I carry my tackle via a front deck bag.
The Vapor on the oter hand....no way. The front deck is in the next county.
And as a guy who has kayak/fished for 15+ years, I know that it's nice to be in a sit inside and have some of your thighs protected from the sun. Not possible in teh Vapor.
Additionally, where would you mount rod holders if you wanted some for the front of the Vapor? There's no good spot that's within reach.
And are you serious on the stern deckwell? LOL!! Old Town FAILED miserably when they designed in for the Vapor. You can't even fit the very most common thing in it...a milk crate. Probably 90% of the guys who I know who have a stern deckwell have a milk crate in it.
Why even put one there if you can't fit a milk crate or a bait bucket in it? You know what I mean? LOL!!
The Ascend is molded to fit both quite well.

Naw, like I said I looked very closely. Maybe different things are important to each of us, I dunno. But for me, the Ascend has a much smarter design, probably from someone who actually fishes out of a kayak, and is better made.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

Wrong again Bubba, The 8 in. pc. of bungee is a rod holder? Wow what an investment, a real deal breaker there. Obviously, your arms are 4 ft. long to reach the front deck, some of us have evolved since then. As a guy who's been paddling for 35+ years, I found the perfect place to mount 2 rod holders, for closer access than the Ascend. Milk crates are great in SOT's, but c'mon think outside the box. The Vapor has enough space under the rear deck to store camp gear along side the deckwell, in a lower point, aiding stability. It also has a hatch cover to protect your cargo. Although, as I said, Unless you're a contortionist, you cant effectively reach the back well. When you've fished as long as I have, you learn to appreciate useful features and great design, thats why the Vapor is so popular and the Ascend is an up- and- comer.--Tim...................................................................................................................................


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

I don't know I'm even continuing with this, as I could really give a ratsass about either boat, nor would I buy either boat.

But...the paddle holders on the side are more than an 8" piece of bungee. The boat itself is molded to accomodate the paddle/rod. If you look closely, you'll see what I mean. It's nothing major, just a smarter design.

And the fact that you continue to defend the design of that stern deckwell is kind of funny. Exactly what is it good for? And I've seen that "hatch cover"...LOL!! That thing isn't protecting anything from anything except getting pooped on by a passing bird or something.
And I have no problem thinking outside the box, but the fact is that 90% of the fishing public with a stern deckwell puts a friggin milk crate in there. They just DO. 
I don't have a stern deckwell, nor do I want one. (I have a sealed rear hatch...lower center of gravity, water tight, and I have extra bungees on top of the hatch for additional dry bags if I'm really packing.)But for crying out loud if you're going to design a boat with one, you should accomodate the vast majority of people who would buy it and design it to fit a milk crate.

Like I said, I don't really have an undying love for either boat, but the "up and comer" (LOL!! The Vapor's been around all of 1 or 2 years longer) Ascend is definately a better designed boat.


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## TimTaylor75 (Apr 7, 2009)

Congrats on the new kayak!


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

I know why you're continuing with this Bubba, because opinions are like anal sphincters, everybody has one. And you are certainly entitled to yours, as I am mine. My 1st comments about the Ascend FS10 are true. Why that rattles your cage? I don't know. All the makers of paddlecraft today look at what the big boys are doing, and Old town, Bubba is a big boy. If their designs are selling, everybody else will imitate. Do you think Ascend, pulled this design out of a hat? They all sat around and said lets make a 10 ft. yak, make it light, make it wide, with big cockpit, with rear deckwell and a 325 lb. capacity. Hmmmmm, sound like any popular, affordable yak we know? Of course! ... Can you name one yak that is more similar? 

Some dude, many years ago strapped a milk crate to his surfboard, and yak design was changed forever? gimme a break. It was a cheap, easy solution and copied by everybody. I think they look cheap & cheezy, especially on a nice yak. I'd build something with better form and function, but thats just me.

I'd buy both of these yaks, in a second, It's hard to find any better value. If you need to impress your friends, knock yourself out! LOL!....................................................................................................................................................


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Well, I'm certainly finding it difficult to follow your tangential logic.
But you make it sound as if Old Town invented the 10 foot recreational kayak. For crying out loud, I could find a dozen different boats that have been around alot longer than The Vapor, with very, very simialr specs.

http://www.wildernesssystems.com/pr...ecreational_pamlico/pamlico_100_recreational/
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...325000000_325014000?cmCat=CROSSSELL_THUMBNAIL
http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/kayaks/recreation/vapor_10xt.html
http://www.perceptionkayaks.com/product/index/products/recreational/prodigy/prodigy_10/

Old Town is a canoe company that got into the kayak business when it started taking off. Period. Not that they didn't make kayaks before, they just never put much effort into them as opposed to their canoe design. i.e The crappy Otter.
Perception, Dagger, Wilderness Systems, etc...are the ones that really drove the recreation kayak design.

My point? The 10 foot, wide boat, big cockpit, ~300# capacity....these are not unique ideas to Old Town.
Like I said, I'll give them the idea of the stern deckwell for a rec boat. But it's not that scary great of an idea when you really get down to it. Like you said, it's not like it's very practical while you're actually IN the boat. So why not have a sealed hatch?
AND the stern deckwell they did design, they designed very poorly.

I was going to say that Old Town should pay you for marking out and defending their design, but you're doing it poorly.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

BTW, YakManley, to the other part of your post.
You're in target rich environment down there in SW Ohio. The Mad, Great Miami, and Stillwater are ll deignated water trails so they have plenty of access points and floatable water...and all good fishing streams, too.
And there's some even better water just over the line in Indiana also.
Have fun!


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

This map:
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/map/tabid/11881/Default.aspx
And this downloadable book:
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/default/tabid/11879/Default.aspx

Sould be enough to get you started.


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

Bubbagon said:


> Well, I'm certainly finding it difficult to follow your tangential logic.
> But you make it sound as if Old Town invented the 10 foot recreational kayak. For crying out loud, I could find a dozen different boats that have been around alot longer than The Vapor, with very, very simialr specs.
> 
> http://www.wildernesssystems.com/pr...ecreational_pamlico/pamlico_100_recreational/
> ...


Bubba, You're talkin' plenty, but makin' no sense! And don't put words in my mouth. You "say" you can find a dozen different boats, and then you post 2, count 'em 2, lame examples! The Pamlico 100 And the Prodigy 10 are laughable! Both are 10 ft. Wow!!! LOL!. You got the length right. Neither has the 325lb.capacity, a moulded deck well, the fishing accessories, and the camo color. And at $500 to $539 they're both way overpriced. Look at my second post, find something like that at $500 or less by Perception, Dagger, and Wilderness Systems, who by the way, wish they had the reputation and annual sales of Old Town.

So after 6 sentences of verbal diarrhea, and two unworthy comparisons, you claim to have a point! .....And the point is?....What?....."Old Town's ideas aren't unique" and "they design poorly" Oh!..and I represent them poorly? that's it?

As I said b4, yakmanley, Ascend took all the best features of the Vapor and made you one heck of a nice yak. Happy Paddlin'! .......................................................................................................................................................................................


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

So Old Town pioneered "325lb.capacity, a moulded deck well, the fishing accessories, and the camo color"?...that's AWESOME!!! YOU'RE awesome!!

10 years ago Old Town had the shitass Otter, the Loon and some touring kayaks, that's it. Everything else was canoes. Heck, the friggin company and the website was "Old Town Canoes". They just never focused on kayaks, and righfully so as they made some great canoes.

Giving them credit for "325# weight capacity" camo color, and fishing accesories is laughable.
And by the way, you're not even right about the weight capacity that you keep bringing up as if it's some kind of invention.
From their own website it's rated as "275-325 lbs"....which is pretty vague.









And yes, I can find DOZENS of 10" rec boats, in camo color, in 10' length, with a 275-325# weight capacity and a big cockpit that have been around MUCH longer than the Vapor.

You're a hoot, dude. Keep it coming!!


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

Hey Bubba! You should go into politics, the facts don't seem to matter to you, so you baffle with BS. If you've got anger issues, go see a shrink, or go kick your neighbors dog. Let's see if you can comprehend this. I'll type really slow.

You want to talk about pioneering? Here you go, read and learn something,Bubba:

*Old Town is the world's largest and oldest manufacturer of canoes and kayaks. 
*The company's first canoe is built in 1898 
*Old Town made canoes with sails, and sponsons (floats), Lightweight rowboats, wood and fiberglass moterboats and the square stern canoe was introduced in 1917.
*Old Town introduced its first kayak in 1940
*The same spirit of innovation led them to introduce lightweight fiberglass versions of their kayaks and canoes in the 1950s and '60s
*Royalex (a brand of ABS plastic) was added in the 1970s when Old Town designer Lew Gilman developed new methods for producing molds with it. 
*Old Town began distributing Lettmann and Prijon kayaks in 1979 and In 1990 Old Town began distributing Dimension SOT kayaks 
*In 1995, Old Town began distributing its own brand of kayaks. By 1998 they accounted for 40 percent of sales. 
*While the company has pioneered modern materials used in personal watercraft, a few canoes are still made using wood-and-canvas construction techniques that date back to the 19th century.
*2004: Old Town builds its one millionth boat.

Who said anything about pioneering?....Oh yeah! It was you Bubba. I can't make it any clearer for you, It's written in english, re-read it!

So Old Town's been making yaks for 70 years? WOW! Not according to Bubba. And the other yak makers you're so fond of, have been at it for how long?

Your right! Old town makes outstanding canoes, and affordable ones too. With their track record, I'd look for great inovation in kayaks and canoes for years to come. And the others will continue to imitate and overcharge. Old Town has had a bigger impact on paddle sports than anyone in the industry.

So, I'm still waiting. You have a dozen 10 ft. yaks with a Max. load of 325lbs., that are anything like the Vapor Angler or the Ascend FS10? Lets see 'em!

So Bubba, you're planning to outlast me? By boring me to death? LOL! ...Pretty sad. -- Yak Happy, Dude! --Tim..................................................................................................................................


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

after 4-5 years of yakin out of a coleman inflatable($15 wally world clearance, I went through 3), I have upgraded. Its a 2009 Dirigo 106 with the deluxe seat. Heading out for the inaugural voyage. Yep, I'm a happy camper.:Banane40:

Cheers to new yaks!


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## Wow (May 17, 2010)

JamesT, Very nice comfortable, stable yak. Lightweight with good capacity to load her up. The Old Town Dirigo 106 won the coveted "Paddler's Picks Award" in 2005 from Paddler Magazine. Now you get to pimp her out! LOL!--Tim...........................................................................................................................................................


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## JamesT (Jul 22, 2005)

Just got back. Yes the yak is very stable and the seat is reasonably comfortable. Will slowly pimp her out. My first pimp will be a basic anchor system. I read about the anchor trolley system on here but will probably keep it simple to start. Need to pick up a 5 lb dumbell.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

You're gonna dig that boat, Pete. My buddy who I float with 90% of the time has one. 
We looked through alot of boats last summer and that particular model has alot going for it. That's a Dirigo in the blue.
You're gonna love it, man!


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## yakmanley (Apr 16, 2009)

I thought the only argument I would witness over buying the yak would be from my wife, which by the way, was totally worth the visit to the doghouse. All kidding aside, I just want to thank all of you for the info. It's awesome to meet some passionate fisherman, and you guys have been a great wealth of info and advice. Hopefully, this weather will straighten out and I'll be able to get out and catch some fish.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

LOL!!!
I'm trying to "sneak" another yak into my garage right now. They're not like fishing rods..."Oh that one? I've had it for years. You know, the long skinny black one."

BTW, you bought the right boat!


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