# Ready for a change??? I AM!!!



## OhioFlyer (Mar 14, 2008)

Went to the Ashtabula River today with a friend. The fishing was horrible since it is still the dead of winter here is the armpit. Anywho fished for a while and was approached by a guy claiming that we were on private property. Of my knowledge the landowner I had permission from stated that where we were at was his land. Rather than being a **** like this guy and the fishing was horrible we left. I talked to my landowner and he is going to find out who this was and why they were causing issues. 

As the title implies. OHIO needs to buy some public land back from these jerks so that my kids can fish the same places I did for the past 12 years.


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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

Sounds like you were on private property.... The question is who's private property, your landowners or someone elses.


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

They don't need to buy land, the State just needs to change the laws about land ownership. I just don't understand why someone who owns land next to a river or stream, also owns the bed under the water. That just makes no sense to me. You can not do anything to that part of land underwater, you can't build on it, farm it, and so on. If they would just change it to where you could just wade the stream, that would be fine, we wouldn't have to walk through people's land, and I can understand that. Just my two cents.


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## Huron River Dan (Oct 19, 2007)

Your landowner friend may just have an over zealous neighbor who feels he needs to protect everyone in the neighborhoods land. You did handle it in the right way by walking away. I had one of my father in laws neighbors do the same thing to me a few years ago when I was hunting on the farm. A phone call from him to the neighbor was a very interesting show...

Here in MI, the landowner does own the stream bottom; but if the stream is navigable they cannot prevent you from wading it as long as you are below the high water mark. You can access the water from bridge crossings, but you can't cross the private property to access the stream.

Dan


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## jhrules8 (Apr 14, 2009)

amen...i disagree with having the right to "buy" a portion of a river.


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

there was a stream I used to fish when I was a kid caught my first trout on a fly rod there, this is back in approx 1982. I grew up a few houses from it. people, including me are no longer allowed to fish it. and frankly, I dont blame the owners. the rivers are too crowded and too many hicks who lack respect for private property.


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

The rivers are too crowded because there is not enough access to the water. The "hicks" are going to fish the usual places, easy access, they are not going to "wade" their way through miles of stream, I know, I have seen the "hicks". Myself, I wade through stream to go where most won't go, and always leave the stream better than I found it. Just some slight changes in the laws would ease, what I feel, is unessary crowding. You know, we pay taxes to the state, in turn they fund government agencies, we as a group need to put more pressure on govt. to make "our" water more accessiable.


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## Steelhead Fever (Dec 31, 2009)

so in ohio cant you wade as long as your in the water right????


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Ok due to me being a land surveyor let me put this in plain english so all can understand. In the State of Ohio the land owner owns the stream bed period! If the same land owner owns both sides of the river and its posted you cannot access the posted property unless you have written / oral permission from them. Their is however a document from the ODNR that they publish to negate the land owner of liability when you are accessing thier lands. If you can walk on water you can fish the water that is posted with out having permssion. I have tried looking into gettin ga wading law "like Michigain" on the ballats! The people I have talked with from a State Rep in my area, and the Ohio Bar Association they do not feel like this would work. So as you can tell its a huge up hill battle. We will continue to lose access if people do not change thier ways of living for sure. We are up against in some cases where we are at the mercy of people who dont even fish. Example in PA I lost access to an area that we call Beckman road. I lost this and many others due to two things. People dumped huge amount of trash on this farmers field, and Donnie Beaver leased it! O yes and Donnie Beaver also leases lands in Ohio for steelhead fishing "I know one of the land owners personally, and who still lets me access his lands to fish up stream or down stream but does not let me fish his lands"! Its a sad state of affairs! The river/stream access issues also extends to the farmers who are scared to death that we will be in thier fields and doing who knows what! The other major issue is right now the Great Lakes is having access issues with Lake Frontage home owners of who owns the beach and who can access the private beaches. Due to the fact that the lake level have been going down in recent years thusly giving the land owner more beach front property! Since that dog fight has drug out for a long time it has put a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths against access issues! Wheew sorry for all the run on sentences, but you get the gist!

Tom G.


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## Jkish (Oct 19, 2009)

Streamhawk said:


> The rivers are too crowded because there is not enough access to the water. The "hicks" are going to fish the usual places, easy access, they are not going to "wade" their way through miles of stream, I know, I have seen the "hicks". Myself, I wade through stream to go where most won't go, and always leave the stream better than I found it. Just some slight changes in the laws would ease, what I feel, is unessary crowding. You know, we pay taxes to the state, in turn they fund government agencies, we as a group need to put more pressure on govt. to make "our" water more accessiable.


So why don't you "HICKS" just stay down in cincy then?????????
Must be everyone here in lake County are "HICKS", is that what you are trying to say?


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

Well, there are a lot of pickup trucks in lake county.....
( just joking)

This thread will self destruct in 30 seconds....................


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

Hey Jkish, first of all, I consider everyone in Ohio a "hick". As a matter of fact, everyone west of the Raritan River is a "hick". LOL (look up Raritan River, maybe you will get my joke). Just feel lucky that you do not fall into the "hilljack" category, I hope.  that is an entirely different animal. You should be happy that I drive 4 plus hours to spend my money in your hotels, tackle shops, restaurants, bars,and bring revenue into Lake County, and clean up the crap left behind by "hilljacks" in "your" streams? Geesh, the last time I checked, I am a tax paying resident of the State of Ohio, did not know that I was not allowed in Lake County. Maybe "some people" just need to expand their horizions beyond Lake County?  LOL


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

Dont worry Jed, ima bettin we could use dis here fine drift boat as long as we dont step on the land.............


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

steelheadbob, OMG!!!! please tell me you photoshopped that pic!! Enough said!! LMFAO


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## Patricio (Feb 2, 2007)

Streamhawk said:


> The rivers are too crowded because there is not enough access to the water. The "hicks" are going to fish the usual places, easy access, they are not going to "wade" their way through miles of stream, I know, I have seen the "hicks". Myself, I wade through stream to go where most won't go, and always leave the stream better than I found it. Just some slight changes in the laws would ease, what I feel, is unessary crowding. You know, we pay taxes to the state, in turn they fund government agencies, we as a group need to put more pressure on govt. to make "our" water more accessiable.


your post is entirely wrong. there are at least 10 times as many people steelhead fishing now as there was 15-20 years ago. back then you could walk all day and not see many people. and the smaller streams barely had a footprint. now these rivers and streams are inundated with people. filled to the gills. it looks like NY or PA. 

btw: if you do go where "most wont go", why are you bitching about the small percentage of river thats private?


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

> there are at least 10 times as many people steelhead fishing now as there was 15-20 years ago


And we have a winner!
100% true.

The only creek I fish that absolutely no one knows about is


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

creekcrawler said:


> And we have a winner!
> 100% true.
> 
> The only creek I fish that absolutely no one knows about is


hmmmmmmm, betcha were fishin the same little creek....


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## creekcrawler (Oct 5, 2004)

LOL. Shut up, Bob.

(joking...)


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## Jkish (Oct 19, 2009)

WOW Streamhawk what we do with out you? You bring money up here and clean up our streams!!!!!!!! WOW


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

creekcrawler said:


> LOL. Shut up, Bob.
> 
> (joking...)



My mouth is sealed!!!!!!! Trust me


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## joel_fishes (Apr 26, 2004)

As a fisherman, I would love more access. However, I don't think the state should take land rights away from private owners just because fisherman are now interested in the fish in the river that flows through their property. Every landowner bought the land with the understanding that they owned the riverbed. 

I think most respectful fisherman underestimate the impact that the disrespectful fisherman have on the property around a river. If the state wanted to purchase some type of easement on certain riverfront properties with funds from a trout stamp, I would be in favor of that although the state has repeatedly said they don't want to do a stamp. 

I think the Lake County Metroparks is doing a great job in securing riverfront property like the Cleveland Metroparks did along the Rocky however long ago that was. This is probably the best approach under the current laws.

And, no, I don't own any riverfront property.

Joel


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

creekcrawler said:


> Well, there are a lot of pickup trucks in lake county.....
> ( just joking)
> 
> This thread will self destruct in 30 seconds....................


Limo any one..... LMAO


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Land rights... we are not taking anything away from them! Why do you say that? That is part of the problem some ppl see it taking rights away from the land owner! Why cant we keep it open for recreation to the rivers/creek/streams edge? I know landowners are afraid of getting sued by some moron that gets hurt on his lands, but an easement if written correctly could possibly eliminate that problem!


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

Patricio said:


> your post is entirely wrong. there are at least 10 times as many people steelhead fishing now as there was 15-20 years ago. back then you could walk all day and not see many people. and the smaller streams barely had a footprint. now these rivers and streams are inundated with people. filled to the gills. it looks like NY or PA.
> 
> btw: if you do go where "most wont go", why are you bitching about the small percentage of river thats private?


First off, my post is not wrong, where did I even mention how many people are fishing today, nowhere. Second, the reason the rivers are crowed is because of more people fishing, so let's see, more people fishing in the same amount of public land. If you have the same amount of public land today as 10 to 15 years ago, I would guess that more private land has been bought by individuals in the past 10 to 15 years. So let me recap for the slow ones. If you have a 5 pound bag 10 to 15 years ago, it would hold 5 pounds, but then over the next 10 to 15 years the weight increased, let's say to 10 pounds, well you can't fit 10 pounds of Sh%t in a 5 pound bag. Also, there is a rather large amount of river that is private, take a look at a map down at the local court house of any town, on any of the steelhead streams, see who own's it, that's how I find out who to contact to fish it.


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## joel_fishes (Apr 26, 2004)

As soon as you say the landowner has no right to restrict who is on his property, you are taking something away from him. 

If I bought land on a river and built my house so I could enjoy my view of the river, I would not be happy to look out my window and see some knucklehead relieving himself on the edge of the river or in my front yard (as happened at a popular spot on an eastside stream). 

Does anyone really think opening up the rivers would not have an impact on the landowners (trash, fires, vandalism, illegal parking on their property, etc.)? If there is no impact on the landowner, why do you think more stretches are getting posted with the increased pressure?


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## CARL510ISLE (Jan 8, 2010)

Years ago many landowners welcomed an occasional fisherman on their land and were typically very friendly. Crowds increased, pressure increased, and everybody sought more out of view places. The ignorant trapsed through fields looking for the shortest paths to the most out of the way spots while those who liked to walk the rivers never really realized it. Some guides began capitalizing on the fishery and began to realize the best spots required securing access on private stretches.

IMO, this was when the $hit hit the fan, as money became a factor. Next came some land leases and the folks who enjoyed walking the rivers and fishing some remote sections where now ran off by the elitist and where threatened to be prosecuted. All in the name of a fish (or capitalism)  .


Hence the American Hick Saga.

C510I


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## Streamhawk (Apr 25, 2008)

CARL510ISLE said:


> Years ago many landowners welcomed an occasional fisherman on their land and were typically very friendly. Crowds increased, pressure increased, and everybody sought more out of view places. The ignorant trapsed through fields looking for the shortest paths to the most out of the way spots while those who liked to walk the rivers never really realized it. Some guides began capitalizing on the fishery and began to realize the best spots required securing access on private stretches.
> 
> IMO, this was when the $hit hit the fan, as money became a factor. Next came some land leases and the folks who enjoyed walking the rivers and fishing some remote sections where now ran off by the elitist and where threatened to be prosecuted. All in the name of a fish (or capitalism)  .
> 
> ...


Excellent thought. So, my question. If you lease land from a land owner, and you are guiding on their land, and one of your guest snaps an ankle, who get's sued then????  I would assume in Ohio, you probally sign your life away to go on the stream with a guide, right? So it would fall back on the owner of the land?


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

Plain and simple, if you see this, dont fish!!!!!!! LMAO


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## chuckyhumper (Aug 17, 2005)

In my opinion the fish on thier property are more than likely stocked fish so i would think that we would have permission since those fish are supplied from the state.


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## I_Shock_Em (Jul 20, 2008)

the ignorance and stupidity of people amazes me


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## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

Its all about RESPECT....you either have it or you don't. You're either ignorrant or your respectful...Bottom line! It is typically the people who do not own their own property that lack the respect for others' ground and those who feel that just because they buy a state license - it grants them the right to trapes wherever they want in persuit of their quarry. Try going out and buying your own property, along a stocked stream or where the hunting is great...It won't be long, and you'll understand why people post their land and I certainly do not blame them. You'll be posting yours too! 

IMO, the best thing to do is to put pressure on your state to acquire more land and easments along stocked streams allowing for more access. PA has tried, but they typically offer peanuts to property owners for prime land which, in my mind, is pretty pathetic. They certainly are not runnin' short of cash thats for sure. Being a property owner myself, I deal with constantly picking up trash and dealing with hunters who do not undertand safety zones. I have 3 children at home who regularly play outside and want to ensure their safety around their own home and property.

If people want you off their property, just respect their wishes and move on, don't cause any trouble because a few fish are certainly not worth the aggravation. Besides, there are plenty other places for you to fish legally!


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## ShutUpNFish (Apr 17, 2007)

Streamhawk said:


> Excellent thought. So, my question. If you lease land from a land owner, and you are guiding on their land, and one of your guest snaps an ankle, who get's sued then????  I would assume in Ohio, you probally sign your life away to go on the stream with a guide, right? So it would fall back on the owner of the land?


NO...why would the state be liable for this??? Makes no sense at all. If everyone could just sue the state for injuries while fishing, you wouldn't be fishing period thats for sure. Reputable guides should be covered for this sort of thing...thats why they pay big bucks for insurances to guide people out on the streams, lakes and rivers. Just part of a guide's overhead. He takes clients out, he is liable.....A bunch of BS, but its how our sue-happy society works these days


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

Just get a kayak and float on the river. Then nobody can tell you that you are trespassing since you are not touching the streambed.


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## webothfish (Mar 28, 2008)

I saw this same idea running thru another thread that got closed and thought about making a comment. Whatever happened to the idea of private property rights in this country? have we all been so conditioned by the current social ideas that we think no one can have property to themselves or only allow access to those who will respect it? I just bought a piece of property that doesn't have a steel stream thru it but the idea is the same. We are still finding used rubbers from the partyers that think just because there is a pull off they can go there and throw out anything they use up. 
What ever happened to this being a nation of laws? Ohio law says the owner has the stream bottom, so respect it! Buy a kayak and you can drift it because that is the law. Just because the state stocked the fish doesn't mean you can go on private property to go after it. I keep seeing a certain poster who says he will go there no matter what because the fish are stocked. Look up the law, don't just go by what your buddy told you at the bar. I think what he is thinking of is when an owner SIGNS an agreement with ODNR for services provided by ODNR, then part of the agreement is that the owner has to allow access. I'm pretty sure this applies mostly to hunting, but maybe fishing too if the owner signed that agreement. YOU STILL have to have written permission to hunt that property because that is the law!If you are on that persons prop. and the deer you just gut shot crosses the line, you can't legally chase it without written permission from the next owner. 
As other sensible people here have said, maybe if we had more respect for the owner things would open back up. I'm as disgusted as everyone else that the access is closed, but my solution is going to be to build a kayak, not just go ahead and fish because the state stocked them. The fish may be "public property", but the land isn't, YET. It's looking more and more every day like your socialist utopia is coming in this country, so keep hoping. Soon there won't be property rights in this country and we can all live John Lennon's dream. Imagine!
I know I got a little wild there. If the moderator decides to remove this I understand, but I think I'm on topic.


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

Heres a thought..... No matter how we feel about it, a good thing or bad thing,,,,,,,,,,, If its posted, be a "angler" and just stay off there land. A steelhead is not worth a couple hundred dollar fine. If your unsure of where someones land ends and the state starts, there many ways to find out on the web!!!!!


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