# Yak upgrade advice



## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

OK well last year was a learning year - didn't like the quality of my Future Beach Trophy so I got rid of it and kept the Perception Swifty as my 2nd yak. Now I'm ready to get another one for myself. I was originally thinking I'd just get another Swifty or something in the $300-$500 range, but now I'm thinking maybe it's worth it to spend a few extra bucks to get something decent.
I was looking at the Tarpons and I love what I see, but I'm thinking that the only real benefit to these & other SOTs is the ease of getting in & out. (what's your opinion) That's something to consider, but I'm not convinced that it's that big of a deal. So if I don't get a SOT, then I think I'm best off looking at hybrids, which are good for flat water and good for up to class III rivers. Mount a couple of pole holders and I've got a boat that is good for a very wide range of things. I will use it for fishing anywhere & everywhere in central OH, but I prefer the rivers & streams, because it adds another element of fun - fishing and a little fun paddling.
So here are the ones I'm considering, after a good deal of reading (but not much experience). *Please chime in with any opinion you may have. I want to consider everything. That's why I'm posting this. Let me know what I'm failing to consider.*

Liquid Logic Remix xp10 - $1,000 - seems like the perfect hybrid kayak - just don't think I'm ready to dump $1k
Dagger Axis 10.5 or 12 - $800-$900 - definitely an option...
Riot Edge 10.5 - $650 - seems like a great deal - if it's a good quality hard shell & at all comparable to the Dagger Axis, I think I may just go with this for now and save some $$$ for accessories.

So what other options am I missing?


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

jhietter said:


> Liquid Logic Remix xp10 - $1,000 - seems like the perfect hybrid kayak - just don't think I'm ready to dump $1k
> Dagger Axis 10.5 or 12 - $800-$900 - definitely an option...
> Riot Edge 10.5 - $650 - seems like a great deal - if it's a good quality hard shell & at all comparable to the Dagger Axis, I think I may just go with this for now and save some $$$ for accessories.
> 
> So what other options am I missing?


Those Remix boats caught my eye last summer and they are friggin sweet. I haven't paddled one, but if I had a limitless budget for a yak, that's the boat I would get. Great all around small stream yak that can be taken to New or some bumpy water in KY for fun.

Can't go wrong with a Dagger. I am sure Bubbagon would concur. I believe the Axis is the boat that replaced their primary model, the Blackwater 10.5. That is probably the most practical. Maybe call Paddle Power in Chili town and inquire if they have any demo or blemish boats. I have fished out of a Tarpon 100, and it's a relatively comfortable boat. Tracks and handles well, but I can't rave about it since it's the only boat to ever get me wet. lol


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

What do you have now Kyle?


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

I think you have exceptional taste in kayaks.

Those are boats that you'd want to paddle first for sure. The cockpits are smaller and the initial stability will vary a great deal compared to two that you've owned.

All of those boats will paddle great.
Kyle gives good advice on Paddle Power.


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Thank you both. My taste in boats came from you - reading your posts & reading the links you've posted, which is very much appreciated.

I'm going to hit the TOSA meeting Thu & then hit Paddle Power and Outdoor Source on Friday. Took Fri off to buy everything and rig it all up. Bubbagon - where did you say you got your pole holders?


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

jhietter said:


> Thank you both. My taste in boats came from you - reading your posts & reading the links you've posted, which is very much appreciated.
> 
> I'm going to hit the TOSA meeting Thu & then hit Paddle Power and Outdoor Source on Friday. Took Fri off to buy everything and rig it all up. Bubbagon - where did you say you got your pole holders?


Cool, look forward to meeting you Thursday. My boat is a 12 foot tandem canoe. I LOVE it for bow hunting and it's kinda cool for crappie fishing on a lake, but it aint the best craft for small streams and rivers. If I don't get one sooner, I'll have a yak this time next year. It won't be a Remix though. My best hope is for a used Dagger, but a Swifty or a Pamlico 100 would suit me just fine as well. I am very fortunate to have some good friends that are blessed with an abundance of yaks.


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## Mykidsr1 (Mar 19, 2009)

Critter and Bubba are great and full of knowledge.

Im still new to this whole thing but since you already have a Swifty, why not rig the swifty for creeks and think of getting a larger SOT for lakes/large flat water.

Just my 2 cents.

Ofcourse have a second smaller river yak would mean you could drag a friend along. Until they start out fishing you... looks in critters direction.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Mykidsr1 said:


> Ofcourse have a second smaller river yak would mean you could drag a friend along. Until they start out fishing you... looks in critters direction.


Yeah! No shat, Critter!
You'd think a brutha would shake a few fish off, just to be considerate.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

jheiter,
Cabelas is where I got them. They're made by Ram and are the infinately adjustable ones.
It's kind of embarrassing how expensive they are, but they are indeed awesome and have held up extremely well.
http://www.cabelas.com/p-0001483.shtml


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## Mykidsr1 (Mar 19, 2009)

Scotty makes a decent one as well. They are around 25-30 bucks but a little more bulky then Bubba's Ram Rod holders.

Scotty Rod Holders


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks again guys. Someone with a remarkably similar setup posted a link to the same holder last year, but I lost track of it. The way you rave about these, with as much as you're on the river, I'm seriously considering getting one or two of them. Of course I also have the same pack now, so I'd better not get a Dagger cause that would just be queer - Ha - that's what you get for having such a great setup & sharing it. When I first saw it all together I knew that's pretty much everything I wanted.
Mykidsr1 - I was thinking the same thing but I decided that a big SOT is something I can get in a year or two. Having one of these hybrids in addition to the swifty makes it easier to take a friend just kayaking or take a friend fishing.

This Riot Edge is driving me crazy - can't find any good reviews on it (just 1). It sure looks like it's in the same league as the Dagger for a lot less, but I don't want to end up with junk.


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## Mykidsr1 (Mar 19, 2009)

The Hybrid I want to get would be the Commander by wilderness systems. It looks flipping awesome. I am going to try and find a demo day where I can actually paddle one just to see if the rave is on spot or not. Pretty much say you can stand up in it comfortably if need be.


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## Mykidsr1 (Mar 19, 2009)

Commander 120

Seems like it would be the perfect boat for bigger waters and one my Wife would be able to float in pretty easy. Only problem is it is fairly pricey so will take a while to save up for.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Mykidsr1 said:


> Scotty makes a decent one as well. They are around 25-30 bucks but a little more bulky then Bubba's Ram Rod holders.
> 
> Scotty Rod Holders


I'd second the vote for Scotty rod holders. I bought one from Cabela's for my SOT, designed to hold a fly rod. I've used it 3 or 4 times, I love the options for carrying angle and security.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

jhietter said:


> This Riot Edge is driving me crazy - can't find any good reviews on it (just 1). It sure looks like it's in the same league as the Dagger for a lot less, but I don't want to end up with junk.


It certainly has all of the features of a well made boat. And it looks like Outdoor Source carries them.

So I think you have two types of boats with your choices.
The Riot Edge and the Dagger Axis seem to be VERY similar. Almost identical hull designs. And they both seem to be a rec boat design, that has been "rounded up" a little to accomodate friskier flows.

The Liquid Logic Remix seems to be more like a Dagger Approach. Similar hull designs that are more of a whitewater boat design that has been modifed to be a little less whitewater-ish.

I'd guess the first two paddle much differently than the Remix. The first two are probably much easier to fish out of. the Remix could be so "spinny" that you might hate it. I dunno.

If I was you, I'd lean toward the first two, as you are a fisherman who might get into some class II's and III's every once in a while.

The Remix and Approach are probably more for a whitewater guy who wants to have a boat to do a little fishing out of every so often.

Like I said, I'd sure want to paddle those boats first.


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

jhietter said:


> Thanks again guys. Someone with a remarkably similar setup posted a link to the same holder last year, but I lost track of it. The way you rave about these, with as much as you're on the river, I'm seriously considering getting one or two of them. Of course I also have the same pack now, so I'd better not get a Dagger cause that would just be queer - Ha - that's what you get for having such a great setup & sharing it. When I first saw it all together I knew that's pretty much everything I wanted.


You should see him on the water with that set up. He can go anywhere and do about anything a guy would want to with ease. It's a sweet boat and set up very well. He has been doing this for a LONG time.


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Bubbagon said:


> It certainly has all of the features of a well made boat. And it looks like Outdoor Source carries them.
> 
> So I think you have two types of boats with your choices.
> The Riot Edge and the Dagger Axis seem to be VERY similar. Almost identical hull designs. And they both seem to be a rec boat design, that has been "rounded up" a little to accomodate friskier flows.
> ...


Very good points. Thanks again. Well we'll see which way the wind blows me after going to Paddle Power & Outdoor Source.


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## Mykidsr1 (Mar 19, 2009)

GL man on the new Yak.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Now you've got me curious. I think I'm swinging by Outdoor Source after work.
My God, if I were to buy another yak my wife would leave me.
"How many things that float do you need?"


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## Mykidsr1 (Mar 19, 2009)

Bubbagon said:


> Now you've got me curious. I think I'm swinging by Outdoor Source after work.
> My God, if I were to buy another yak my wife would leave me.
> "How many things that float do you need?"


You can even use the "I bought this one for you Honey...." lol

At least I still have that to go one for the second Yak I get....


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Bubbagon said:


> Now you've got me curious. I think I'm swinging by Outdoor Source after work.
> My God, if I were to buy another yak my wife would leave me.
> "How many things that float do you need?"


Ha - maybe I'll see you there. I'm heading over (Westerville) after 5 to get a look and if they don't have it, I might shoot down to the other store. I don't have the money until tomorrow, so I figure I'm safe to look around tonight.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Make sure you go in the basement. All the good boats are in the basement.
Plus all the blems, demos, etc...are down there.


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Went to Westerville OS. They don't have the Riot and they said the other store doesn't have them either. They didn't have anything good to say about them though - said they weren't good quality. Don't know if that's just a salesperson talking though. And I don't think the Remix is for me. Its not something you can get comfortable in for a day of fishing. So it looks like the Axis 10.5 unless I bump into a decent less costly alternative but I'm beginning to think there isn't one. That Axis is REALLY comfortable.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

That seat rocks in the Axis. That's a really nice boat.
Check out the Arlington store and go in the basement. They had some good deals on demos and blems.
I saw a few Dagger Approaches there for $525....although I think I like the Axis better.
I dunno, I'd have to paddle both.
Dude did say they have a paddle day May 2nd or 3rd.


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Well I'm disappointed that I missed the TOSA meeting because buying this thing took all freakin day. However, I'm as happy as a kid at Christmas.
Outdoor Source and the guy who helped me, Andy, are OUTSTANDING. I planned on going down to Paddle Power, but after the time Andy spent educating and helping me, they earned my business, hands down.
After 30-60 minutes of talk, I took a couple of yaks down to Griggs to paddle. The Dagger Axis 10.5 was last and it just fit like a glove. I felt like I had total control (it's very easy to paddle). So I went ahead & paid full price b($800) because they didn't have any demos for sale, as this is the first year it's being sold. 
A $140 set of stacker bars and a few other items put me over $1k, so I got $100 store credit to buy a few more things.
As soon as I have a minute, I'm going to post pics of everything I got, to ask if I'm on the right track with the way I'm going to mount things.
Here's the yak:


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

OK, here's what I got for rigging. I'm nervous as hell about drilling holes in my brand new $800 yak, so I want to make sure I'm using the right thing before I start measuring & drilling. I got stainless steel screws & nuts at West Marine. Notice the nuts are the ones with the locking nylon in them. The guy there said that was best. I also got these slider kind of cleat - looks like it should work. Think that's a good way to go?


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## DC9781 (Apr 3, 2009)

Kayak.. Upgrade baby upgrade [insert rest of Beyonce lyrics here] 

Ok. on a serious note.. Looks good there John. Can't wait to get out there on the water. Hope I can keep up!


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Darren. I'm freakin stoked! A lot of work to do though. 

Actually that Future Beach may still be faster - not sure. They do track well. Guess we'll have to see!


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Oh and Bubbagon - they have about 4 Approach demos for sale. 2 are 400, with no skegs and the other 2 are 500. I didn't paddle one because they just weren't comfortable enough. To me, it's almost the exact same boat as the Remix XP10, without 1 or 2 of the bells & whistles.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

That's badass!! SWEET boat!

You've got the right nuts and bolts and everything. You're in good shape. Just make sure you don't mount that clam cleat where your knuckles will hit it when paddling.
And don't mount anything right up against the cockpit where it would interfere with a skirt (you never know).
You might want to hold off altogether for a couple trips.

That Andy is a good dude. You must have gone to the Arlington store. All those guys there used to work at Benchmark back in the day. Andy sold me my first kayak ever.

Congrats again. I'm salivating....


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Cool - thanks. I'm extremely grateful for all the help. I'm actually going to go look for a johnny bar tonight, just to see if I can make that work.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Those Johnny bars are sweet. I see them mostly on sit on tops when they have alot of electronics and stuff.
What would you put on it? Rod holders?

It looks like you can carbiner/clip your tackle pack right onto the front deck rigging.
Then rod hoders can go right beside that, or alot of guys put them behind the cockpit, even the Scotty type.

Either way I'm with you; drilling that first hole will be hard.
When someone gets a new boat we typically all rendevous over at our buddy Dave's garage, get all pissdrunk, and then start drilling while everyone with an opinion shouts out why you shouldn't put it there.
Seems to work....


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## crittergitter (Jun 9, 2005)

jhietter said:


> Well I'm disappointed that I missed the TOSA meeting because buying this thing took all freakin day. However, I'm as happy as a kid at Christmas.
> Outdoor Source and the guy who helped me, Andy, are OUTSTANDING. I planned on going down to Paddle Power, but after the time Andy spent educating and helping me, they earned my business, hands down.
> After 30-60 minutes of talk, I took a couple of yaks down to Griggs to paddle. The Dagger Axis 10.5 was last and it just fit like a glove. I felt like I had total control (it's very easy to paddle). So I went ahead & paid full price b($800) because they didn't have any demos for sale, as this is the first year it's being sold.


Ethan gave a great seminar with a LOT of really useful information. Though, you did get a sweet boat. Congratulations and I am jealous.


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## Ken G (Apr 9, 2004)

I always use a dab of Marine Goop on the machine screw threads along with a stainless steel fender washer on the inside of the kayak.


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## Mykidsr1 (Mar 19, 2009)

crittergitter said:


> Ethan gave a great seminar with a LOT of really useful information. Though, you did get a sweet boat. Congratulations and I am jealous.


I have to concur with Critter could not believe how much information was obtained from this meeting.



> I always use a dab of Marine Goop on the machine screw threads along with a stainless steel fender washer on the inside of the kayak.


The Duct tape of Kayak Fisherman.....lol Gotta love that stuff.



Lastly and by far the most important useless information I am adding to this thread.

FLIPPIN SWEET RIDE MAN. That boat looks damn near perfect. 

On a Side note looks like Ohio is mostly SINK lovers...


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## Rybo (Jul 23, 2009)

I am stalking you guys so hard on this post and you don't even know it...

It's been maddening the last year and a half, getting into stream fishing, and putting up with wading/bank fishing. I'm in a perfect spot storage wise/location wise, to get a yak. I've been considering it for almost a year now. Seeing as it's my birthday this week, I'm attempting to buy one and get it done. I appreciate all of the information you gentlemen have provided here. 

Do any of you stand and fish in your kayaks? I'd love to be able to do so. Important kayak attribute #1 i think. I may go check out the Dagger Approach's just mentioned.

I don't mean to threadjack. JHietter, that is a gorgeous set up you've got there. I'm excited for you and I've never even been in a kayak!! Congrats!


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## Buckeyeheat (Jul 7, 2007)

Thank you all for the kind words. I'm stoked.
Good info Ken - I picked some up & will be using it this week when I drill.
Pretty bummed about not getting to that meeting. I'll hit the next one for sure.
Thanks Rybo- I'm pretty excited myself. And HELL NO, you can't stand up in a kayak. Maybe if you got an extra-stable sit-on-top. If you want stability, the sit on tops will be your best bet. Outdoor Source will be taking their yaks out for demos every weekend, starting in May. Your best bet is to check that out to see what kind you like.
http://www.theoutdoorsource.com/
But if you can't wait (like me), I would go there or to Paddle Power and ask a lot of questions. They will tell you everything you need to know.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Rybo,
Don't make the Approach your first kayak unless you paddle it a bunch.
There's a thing called initial stability that keeps guys feeling comfortable when fishing in a rec kayak. The Approach doesn't have alot of initial stability which makes it feel tippy. It has good secondary stability which is good, but sometimes that takes being in a kayak some time to get used to.
I'm not saying it's not a good boat, it is. It is just a boat that may take a little time to grow into feeling comfortable. 
Ore you may just hop in and it may feel like an old shoe. I dunno.
Paddle first!!

Asa far as standing up in a kayak, yeah you can in a hybrid kinf of deal.
Alot of guys paddle the Native Ultimate 12: http://www.nativewatercraft.com/ult_12.cfm
It's a badass boat that you can definately stand up in.
Clintonville Outfitters carries them. Really good guys there.


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## Bubbagon (Mar 8, 2010)

Here's a bunch of videos of a dude standing and fishing out of a Native.
I think he has since hooked up with Jackson kayaks.
http://www.riverbassin.com/site/category/tv/drew-gregory/

BTW, Happy Birthday!


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