# Fall steelhead



## GrandRiverBassman

My question regards the origin of these fall run steelhead. The odnr stopped stocking the London strain years ago. So are the fall run steelhead to the west of conneaut old London strain, PA steelhead that didn't return home, or manastee steelhead that are just coming in early? I don't think there is a visible way to tell the difference. Is there?


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## SelfTaught

Im by no means an expert on this but PA London strain fall fish do get "lost" and do return to other rivers. 
It's my knowledge that the Londons are typically shorter, fatter fish more like a football and the manistee strain are a longer skinnier fish like a torpedo. I'm sure others can chime in & be more techinical


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## chuckNduck

Pa. fish are their own strain, not Londons. Conneaut is stocked by both Ohio, and Pa. The fall running fish that come up Conny are more than likely Pa. fish, which are fall spawners. Little Manistees will come into the rivers in the fall, but do not spawn until spring. So to answer the original question, the fish coming into the Rocky, Chag, and Grand, etc. in the fall are indeed Little Manistee, but not to say that Pa, fish couldn't be mixed in as well.


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## Willyfield

chuckNduck said:


> Pa. fish are their own strain, not Londons. Conneaut is stocked by both Ohio, and Pa. The fall running fish that come up Conny are more than likely Pa. fish, which are fall spawners. Little Manistees will come into the rivers in the fall, but do not spawn until spring. So to answer the original question, the fish coming into the Rocky, Chag, and Grand, etc. in the fall are indeed Little Manistee, but not to say that Pa, fish couldn't be mixed in as well.


Thanks Chuck. Were those Londons then that we used to catch in the 90's and early 00's? They used to be in here in big numbers by mid September. The breakwalls looked like an assembly line of boats as they trolled through there were so many of them.


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## rickerd

Willy,
Yea those were the New londons in 90's and early 00's. The PA fish are really "mutts" so they all look different. I remember taking a picture of everyone I caught in PA early on and look back now and the only ones that seem to resemble each other are the stray mannistee's. I miss the NL strain because they acted like other trout in our rivers in the fall. They seemed to stay in the rivers in the fall. I think these Mannistee's come and go with the water flows, until the Females show up in numbers in late Winter.
Rickerd


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## kayak1979

Ah, the annual steel strain discussion. lol


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## laynhardwood

The old strain was not called New London they were from the London Ohio fish hatchery and were not a good match for Ohio. The London strain of fish were slow growing and had terrible return rates. The little manistee strain is a smarter and faster growing with better return rates. We are lucky enough to have any fish stocked and complaining about what strain is just pointless. The ODNR does not just stock a fish that is unsuccessful after trial and error. The London strain was a bust just like the salmon attempts. The little manistee is more of a winter and spring fish which works out better for Ohio anyways since we have more water in the winter and spring. The Fall River depths are usually very shallow.


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## Rippin

laynhardwood said:


> The old strain was not called New London they were from the London Ohio fish hatchery and were not a good match for Ohio. The London strain of fish were slow growing and had terrible return rates. The little manistee strain is a smarter and faster growing with better return rates. We are lucky enough to have any fish stocked and complaining about what strain is just pointless. The ODNR does not just stock a fish that is unsuccessful after trial and error. The London strain was a bust just like the salmon attempts. The little manistee is more of a winter and spring fish which works out better for Ohio anyways since we have more water in the winter and spring. The Fall River depths are usually very shallow.


 Not sure if you fished the the London strain, but those fish were stacked in the rivers in the 90's, in the fall and we had good fishing right till spring. Believe what you want, your quote is right from the DNR for there reason for stocking the manistee, the manistee is a great fish, return rate is good, get to a decent size, are healthy with a good fight, but they are a spring run fish that have a very limited run, come in when the water is dirty , do there thing and disappear. Don't kid your self, politics played a role in this strain of fish. If you noticed the last two years they have slowly stocked a more fall run fish, in limited numbers from Wisconsin, the Chambers creek and Ganaraska strain steelhead. Last years stocking...
According to Kevin Kayle, Hatcheries Manager for the Ohio Department of Wildlife (ODW), Ohio was unable to obtain steelhead eggs from the Michigan Department of Natural Resources (MDNR) this past spring (2015). The MDNR had difficulty collecting collecting steelhead eggs at the MDNR weir on the Little Manistee River last March. This reduction in eggs had the potential to negatively impact the MDNR’s annual steelhead production in their hatchery facilities as well as hatcheries in Indiana and Ohio.
To make up for this shortfall, the ODW in early May (2015), procured 200,000 fertilized steelhead eggs from Wisconsin (Chambers Creek and Ganaraska Strain) and 210,000 Little Manistee steelhead fingerlings from the MDNR this past September (2015). This should enable the ODW to get close their annual steelhead stocking target of 450,000 steelhead for 2016.
* Chambers Creek* : "Winter Run Steelhead" - This strain originated at Washington's South Tacoma Hatchery. Eggs for our program were originally obtained from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. The spawning migration starts in late fall and continues through winter and early spring. Some of the best stream fishing is during mid-November through December and again in March and early April. The majority of spawning adults are three and four year old fish. Three year Chambers Creek Steelhead average 25 inches and 6 pounds while four year Chambers Creek Steelhead average 29 inches and 9.5 pounds. *Ganaraska River* : "Winter Run Steelhead" - This strain of Steelhead originated on the west coast and has since become naturalized in Lake Ontario. It uses the Ganaraska River on the north shore of the lake for spawning. Although referred to as a spring-run fish in Ontario, the Ganaraskas stocked in Lake Michigan also contribute to the fall and winter stream fishery. Strong pulses of these fish run up the rivers from November to December and again from late March through April. Peak spawning time extends from April to early May. This is the lasts strain of rainbow trout to leave the stream and has extended the fishing opportunities an extra 2 to 4 weeks. Returning adults average 23 inches at age 3 and 26 inches at age 4.


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## Chef T

Steel is Steel to me. I remember the 80s with the Londons and coho and the few kings. I remember the big switch to Manistees too. Now we are getting new strains to compliment Manistee stocking. At this point of Ohio's short Steelhead history, i could care less. As long as they reach that magic 400k we are golden. I looked at my log book and had the best fishing when they hit their goal 4 consecutive years. Ny and Michigan are close enough for salmon and browns so our streams dont have to deal with that circus, thank God.
This fall is off year 3 of them hitting stocking goals and next year will be even better. Heck, fall walleye have filled in my time slot since the fall run starts slow,lol. Now with the walleye fishing about to catch complete fire in the next 5 years im glad the runs start slower these days,lol.
My 2 cents..


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## laynhardwood

I caught plenty of the London strain steelhead and I catch plenty of the manistee strain steelhead. I think
You believe the fishing was better back in the day because of the limited fishing pressure. When I started steelhead fishing over twenty years ago I would usually see 1 maybe 2 people fishing the vermilion river and catch double digits everyday sometimes I would catch 40 in a day. This is way before vermilion river had stockings of any strain. The only run was stray fish and plenty of them for the limited pressure. Fast forward to present day, everyone and their mom is steelhead fishing now. The fishing pressure is at an all time high and the internet has taken most of the leg work out of finding fish. I still have 20+ fish days but have not had a 40 fish day in some time. 
I still think complaining about the fish being stocked is pointless. Enjoy the fishery we do have.


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## GrandRiverBassman

Rippin said:


> Not sure if you fished the the London strain, but those fish were stacked in the rivers in the 90's, in the fall and we had good fishing right till spring. Believe what you want, your quote is right from the DNR for there reason for stocking the manistee, the manistee is a great fish, return rate is good, get to a decent size, are healthy with a good fight, but they are a spring run fish that have a very limited run, come in when the water is dirty , do there thing and disappear. Don't kid your self, politics played a role in this strain of fish. If you noticed the last two years they have slowly stocked a more fall run fish, in limited numbers from Wisconsin, the Chambers creek and Ganaraska strain steelhead. Last years stocking...
> According to Kevin Kayle, Hatcheries Manager for the Ohio Department of Wildlife (ODW), Ohio was unable to obtain steelhead eggs from the Michigan Department of Natural Resources (MDNR) this past spring (2015). The MDNR had difficulty collecting collecting steelhead eggs at the MDNR weir on the Little Manistee River last March. This reduction in eggs had the potential to negatively impact the MDNR’s annual steelhead production in their hatchery facilities as well as hatcheries in Indiana and Ohio.
> To make up for this shortfall, the ODW in early May (2015), procured 200,000 fertilized steelhead eggs from Wisconsin (Chambers Creek and Ganaraska Strain) and 210,000 Little Manistee steelhead fingerlings from the MDNR this past September (2015). This should enable the ODW to get close their annual steelhead stocking target of 450,000 steelhead for 2016.
> * Chambers Creek* : "Winter Run Steelhead" - This strain originated at Washington's South Tacoma Hatchery. Eggs for our program were originally obtained from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. The spawning migration starts in late fall and continues through winter and early spring. Some of the best stream fishing is during mid-November through December and again in March and early April. The majority of spawning adults are three and four year old fish. Three year Chambers Creek Steelhead average 25 inches and 6 pounds while four year Chambers Creek Steelhead average 29 inches and 9.5 pounds. *Ganaraska River* : "Winter Run Steelhead" - This strain of Steelhead originated on the west coast and has since become naturalized in Lake Ontario. It uses the Ganaraska River on the north shore of the lake for spawning. Although referred to as a spring-run fish in Ontario, the Ganaraskas stocked in Lake Michigan also contribute to the fall and winter stream fishery. Strong pulses of these fish run up the rivers from November to December and again from late March through April. Peak spawning time extends from April to early May. This is the lasts strain of rainbow trout to leave the stream and has extended the fishing opportunities an extra 2 to 4 weeks. Returning adults average 23 inches at age 3 and 26 inches at age 4.


Can't like it enough


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## GrandRiverBassman

laynhardwood said:


> I caught plenty of the London strain steelhead and I catch plenty of the manistee strain steelhead. I think
> You believe the fishing was better back in the day because of the limited fishing pressure. When I started steelhead fishing over twenty years ago I would usually see 1 maybe 2 people fishing the vermilion river and catch double digits everyday sometimes I would catch 40 in a day. This is way before vermilion river had stockings of any strain. The only run was stray fish and plenty of them for the limited pressure. Fast forward to present day, everyone and their mom is steelhead fishing now. The fishing pressure is at an all time high and the internet has taken most of the leg work out of finding fish. I still have 20+ fish days but have not had a 40 fish day in some time.
> I still think complaining about the fish being stocked is pointless. Enjoy the fishery we do have.


Not complaining. Just thinking out loud. Never know who might be reading.


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## fritoking

With the various strains being stocked it looks as if it will just make for a longer season, who could complain about that ? I started with the London strain and my first was actually casting little Cleo's at the arcola Creek beach. Even then in the early 90s the Connie was packed, but now when I go I usually don't see huge crowds, 6 or 7 guys tops, but I rarely fish the metropolitan streams around Cleveland so maybe that's it.


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## c. j. stone

Someone mentioned the salmon stocking "fiasco". Yes, it was pretty much a total waste of fish/time but I actually developed techniques and baits that allowed me to catch(ANGLING, not snagging) quite a few salmon. The cohos weren't totally wasted as they would return to the rivers in the Fall until they were mature enough to spawn(at which time they died).


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## Dmrman21

Anyone one finding any steel yet in rocky or vermilion?


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## GrandRiverBassman

Dmrman21 said:


> Anyone one finding any steel yet in rocky or vermilion?


Rocky


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## bassman56

Stopped by chagrin after work for 30 minutes and got this little guy. They are in there along with thousands of Minnie's


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## bassman56

Minnows not Minnie's lol


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## jjshbetz11

GrandRiverBassman said:


> Rocky


Trolling mouth or by bank?

Sent from my E6790TM using Tapatalk


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## Willyfield

Rippin said:


> Not sure if you fished the the London strain, but those fish were stacked in the rivers in the 90's, in the fall and we had good fishing right till spring. Believe what you want, your quote is right from the DNR for there reason for stocking the manistee, the manistee is a great fish, return rate is good, get to a decent size, are healthy with a good fight, but they are a spring run fish that have a very limited run, come in when the water is dirty , do there thing and disappear. Don't kid your self, politics played a role in this strain of fish. If you noticed the last two years they have slowly stocked a more fall run fish, in limited numbers from Wisconsin, the Chambers creek and Ganaraska strain steelhead. Last years stocking...
> According to Kevin Kayle, Hatcheries Manager for the Ohio Department of Wildlife (ODW), Ohio was unable to obtain steelhead eggs from the Michigan Department of Natural Resources (MDNR) this past spring (2015). The MDNR had difficulty collecting collecting steelhead eggs at the MDNR weir on the Little Manistee River last March. This reduction in eggs had the potential to negatively impact the MDNR’s annual steelhead production in their hatchery facilities as well as hatcheries in Indiana and Ohio.
> To make up for this shortfall, the ODW in early May (2015), procured 200,000 fertilized steelhead eggs from Wisconsin (Chambers Creek and Ganaraska Strain) and 210,000 Little Manistee steelhead fingerlings from the MDNR this past September (2015). This should enable the ODW to get close their annual steelhead stocking target of 450,000 steelhead for 2016.
> * Chambers Creek* : "Winter Run Steelhead" - This strain originated at Washington's South Tacoma Hatchery. Eggs for our program were originally obtained from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. The spawning migration starts in late fall and continues through winter and early spring. Some of the best stream fishing is during mid-November through December and again in March and early April. The majority of spawning adults are three and four year old fish. Three year Chambers Creek Steelhead average 25 inches and 6 pounds while four year Chambers Creek Steelhead average 29 inches and 9.5 pounds. *Ganaraska River* : "Winter Run Steelhead" - This strain of Steelhead originated on the west coast and has since become naturalized in Lake Ontario. It uses the Ganaraska River on the north shore of the lake for spawning. Although referred to as a spring-run fish in Ontario, the Ganaraskas stocked in Lake Michigan also contribute to the fall and winter stream fishery. Strong pulses of these fish run up the rivers from November to December and again from late March through April. Peak spawning time extends from April to early May. This is the lasts strain of rainbow trout to leave the stream and has extended the fishing opportunities an extra 2 to 4 weeks. Returning adults average 23 inches at age 3 and 26 inches at age 4.


Very informative post, and thank you for that. I think that most fisherman that love the winter steelhead are forgetting that this strain is eliminating a lot of fisherman. My older friends would fish for the fall steelhead dragging lures behind their boats. Most guys in there late 60's and 70's are not able to wade icy rivers to fish, but they can sit in their boats and successfully do so. The winter steelhead run when boats are put away for the year. There is a lot of bad weather in our winters not to mention lost daylight and the loss of daylight savings time which means it is dark when you are out of work, or nearly so. Sometimes the rivers are locked up solid leaving the fish underutilized for that year, or at least mostly so. Remember the polar vortex years? Quantity of runs matters little, availability matters a lot.


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## mountainbikingrn

Bassman56, were you using the soup can and string to talk to your buddy in the next hole?


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