# Chuck n duck



## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

Does anyone use this? I was up north over the weekend and that's almost what everyone was doing. Some were floating like myself and some were casting spoons and what not. I even talked to a guy using a fly rod and reel for the chuck and duck with no fly line on it, just mono.

Does anyone do this that you know or do you do it? What are some details about it?


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Hmm well it works, but it will depend on what rivers you and how much current your going to fight! I use a spinning rod mostly for any type of fishign thats more than a 1/2oz of lead. Its all abotu getting your fly or bait to the bottom so you can bottom bounce! 

For instance my Huge river set up is as follows:

Mainline seagar (sp) floro 12#
Split shot
micro barrel swivel
18-24" of seagar (sp) down to my fly or bait "for me fly" to use a fly rod in this manner is a waste in my book. I use a 9' med hvy fas taction St. Croix Avid AS90MHF2. This rod is a west coast steelhead salmon style rod with an extended handle behind the reel. I will warn you if you get int oa hot fish and you have only mono on the spool have the hospital location close bye cause you get your finger any where near that mono your going to get cut. I used to watch ppl use Amnesia (hard mono) "hell I used it once" and realized I'm going to get cut bad! The fly rod setup has to much exposed line from the reel to the first guide! If you can float the better set up is the eggbeater IMHO! Fly line has to big of a diameter and lots of drag. If you really want to do it use some running line and your normal backing. Running line had a small profile and will cause you not to lose a finger!


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## Chef T (Feb 28, 2011)

The use the chuck-n-duck because of the special conditions they have up there. Their streams are composed of sand, gravel, and clay. This means bottom bouncing is very effective. The biggest issue is the river run faster and deeper AND they have small widows to drift. Conventional fly line setups don't cut it so those that wanted to "flyfish" came up with that crazy set up. I've used it B4 too, but there is a reason why it has the word "duck" in it. 
Casting it is a nightmare, because swinging 1/2 -1 oz of lead can knock your teeth out, lol. 
I gave up on it myself, and run a special "Michigan Spey" setup that gets down just as fast without the threat of knocking yourself out.


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

..and that Mi Spey set up would be?


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## Chef T (Feb 28, 2011)

steelheader007 said:


> ..and that Mi Spey set up would be?


If I told ya, I'd have to kill you, lol. Took me a few seasons to get it down. Maybe I'll start a thread on it...


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

Please share the MI Spey!


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Chef T said:


> If I told ya, I'd have to kill you, lol. Took me a few seasons to get it down. Maybe I'll start a thread on it...


We cant wait!


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## CARL510ISLE (Jan 8, 2010)

I used a modified chuck-n-duck setup out east after last weeks rain successfully in high flows....

1. 10# big game
2. 4 - #7 splits 30" from hook
3. 1 - 24" eight pound leader for trailer only
4. 2 - #8 hooks
5. 2 - large spawn sacks 

*Chuck* it out there in high flows, keep the rod tip high and hold on.

*Duck* when pulling against a snag as high velocity flying lead is often lethal. 

Truthfully, a good bottom bouncing steelheader can do quite well anywhere, the key is not over-weighting your rig and matching weight to current speed to get down.

C510I


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

"Truthfully, a good bottom bouncing steelheader can do quite well anywhere, the key is not over-weighting your rig and matching weight to current speed to get down."

Truer words have never been spoken!!!!


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## Chef T (Feb 28, 2011)

I started steelhead fishing on the bottom. There wasn't a lot of knowledge in Great Lakes steelhead and the internet wasn't there for the common man in the mid 80s. Everything was West Coast orientated, scaled back, so it was off to the bottom you go,lol.
It is VERY effective, especially in runs, heads, tails, cut.. anything with good current. The issue is out Rivers. The shale EATS split shot. On an average 7 hr trip, you will retie 10-20 times, guaranteed. It takes a lot of patience to bottom bounce, but the feel is hypnotic. 
I still do it when conditions are in my favor, but still can't resit watching a float swiggle under the water or the grab on the swing.


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## CARL510ISLE (Jan 8, 2010)

You want some real fun, try ditching the lead completely and rolling your crap along the bottom in little or no flow and no weight other than your bait...................that's the :bomb:

C510I


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Chef T said:


> I started steelhead fishing on the bottom. There wasn't a lot of knowledge in Great Lakes steelhead and the internet wasn't there for the common man in the mid 80s. Everything was West Coast orientated, scaled back, so it was off to the bottom you go,lol.
> It is VERY effective, especially in runs, heads, tails, cut.. anything with good current. The issue is out Rivers. The shale EATS split shot. On an average 7 hr trip, you will retie 10-20 times, guaranteed. It takes a lot of patience to bottom bounce, but the feel is hypnotic.
> I still do it when conditions are in my favor, but still can't resit watching a float swiggle under the water or the grab on the swing.


I agree all the above and can we all agree the indicator that is only 1.5 deeper than the river depth is WRONG!..lol..can i get an amen!


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

steelheader007 said:


> I agree all the above and can we all agree the indicator that is only 1.5 deeper than the river depth is WRONG!..lol..can i get an amen!


What do you mean by this?


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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

steelheader007 said:


> I agree all the above and can we all agree the indicator that is only 1.5 deeper than the river depth is WRONG!..lol..can i get an amen!


Amen!......wait......what?

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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

FISHIN216 said:


> Amen!......wait......what?
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Yeah what 

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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Lundfish said:


> What do you mean by this?


Thier are ppl out there that preach that your bobber/strike indicator needs to be 1.5x as long as the river is deep. This to me is so wrong due to the fact normally the steelhead will not feed up. These fish have there noses buried in the river bottom and thats where your bait/flies need to be. This is one of the biggest reasons I think ppl at first go fishless due to the fact they do not know how to rig there fly rod or egg beater.


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

steelheader007 said:


> Thier are ppl out there that preach that your bobber/strike indicator needs to be 1.5x as long as the river is deep. This to me is so wrong due to the fact normally the steelhead will not feed up. These fish have there noses buried in the river bottom and thats where your bait/flies need to be. This is one of the biggest reasons I think ppl at first go fishless due to the fact they do not know how to rig there fly rod or egg beater.


Why do they hit dry flies sometimes?


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Well they are trout!


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## CARL510ISLE (Jan 8, 2010)

Amen, but I'm not sure what you mean exactly Tom. Are you saying the 1.5 rule is set 6' deep in a 4' river? Or is it the 2/3 rule, set 4' in 6' of water, you're statement is somewhat confusing. If you're basically saying, rigging requires adjustments nearly all the time, I agree 101%. 

Typically, if you're fishing a bait or fly that's not heavy or weighted (like a jig) and somewhat buoyant, it's not a problem rigging your indicator/float deeper than the river depth as long as your lowest lead or weight is slightly above the bottom and flow is such to keep things from hanging up. You're presentation will typically tumble around the bottom in the lower 18" as such. Not trying to get in a discussion about shot patterns and such, but it's hard to really judge someone's float depth without taking into account their shot patterns as well as whether they are fishing something heavy like a weighted fly or steel skein as opposed to sucker spawn or salmon eggs that tend to be more buoyant. 

There's several ways to get your junk into the zone and I do agree it's narrow minded to just say set it X times deeper or shallower than the water depth and probably more prudent to say set it to meet the depth and flow of the water you're fishing as there can be fish holding in water as shallow as 30" and as deep as a river gets which in some cases may be more than 8 feet. Good steelheaders are constantly adjusting their rigs to match current and depth situations in front of them, unless you're a pinner on a 1/2 mile hero drift. 

C510I


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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

CARL510ISLE said:


> Amen, but I'm not sure what you mean exactly Tom. Are you saying the 1.5 rule is set 6' deep in a 4' river? Or is it the 2/3 rule, set 4' in 6' of water, you're statement is somewhat confusing. If you're basically saying, rigging requires adjustments nearly all the time, I agree 101%.
> 
> Typically, if you're fishing a bait or fly that's not heavy or weighted (like a jig) and somewhat buoyant, it's not a problem rigging your indicator/float deeper than the river depth as long as your lowest lead or weight is slightly above the bottom and flow is such to keep things from hanging up. You're presentation will typically tumble around the bottom in the lower 18" as such. Not trying to get in a discussion about shot patterns and such, but it's hard to really judge someone's float depth without taking into account their shot patterns as well as whether they are fishing something heavy like a weighted fly or steel skein as opposed to sucker spawn or salmon eggs that tend to be more buoyant.
> 
> ...


+1....and lol.....I love hero drifting

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## Steelhead Fever (Dec 31, 2009)

steelheader007 said:


> Thier are ppl out there that preach that your bobber/strike indicator needs to be 1.5x as long as the river is deep. This to me is so wrong due to the fact normally the steelhead will not feed up. These fish have there noses buried in the river bottom and thats where your bait/flies need to be. This is one of the biggest reasons I think ppl at first go fishless due to the fact they do not know how to rig there fly rod or egg beater.


so why did I catch fish this weekend with my float set at about 3 feet in a hole that was more like 6 feet deep (fishing eggs) ??


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Steelhead Fever said:


> so why did I catch fish this weekend with my float set at about 3 feet in a hole that was more like 6 feet deep (fishing eggs) ??


I guess your just gifted..lol..


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

steelheader007 said:


> Well they are trout!


My point is that the fish will feed above.


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

Steelhead Fever said:


> so why did I catch fish this weekend with my float set at about 3 feet in a hole that was more like 6 feet deep (fishing eggs) ??


Amen Bob and 216 yes

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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Lundfish said:


> My point is that the fish will feed above.


I will say thats the exception and not the norm. Who catches more fish ppl who have thier bait/fly fly on the bottom or ppl who fish high in the water column and fish over the heads of steelhead?


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

I agree with you. Do the fish see the bait below them or above them, or both? Other species I pursue like walleye and crappie feed above; so if the bait is below them it's out of the strike zone.


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

IMO, you have to get your eggs to the bottom.... Its not natural for eggs to be floating 3' off the bottom.... That where I see alot off people making mistakes on the river, and throwing into the same spot for over an hour!!!! Heres how I 99% of the time rig up to fish most areas.....Im fishing a 4' deep hole/run. I have my float, shot then micro swivel. I like to have nothing from my float to my bait but one shot and a flouro leader. Ive seen fish move from a line full of shot and passed up the bait.
If your 5'9" tall, from one fingertip to another fingertip with your arms streatched out is a 5'9" long leader. after tying on my leader, ill put on a 0/3 (sometimes #7 depending on water speed and depth) on my leader right under the swivel, then tie on hook. Ill put my other shot about 12-15" above the hook. then if im using a dropper, ill use a12-14" 4lb leader, tie right to the shank of the hook and throw on a single egg or suckerspawn dipped in egg juice. I try to be the first one at a hole, ill see where the best spot is for me so I can fish the head and mid witout running into everyone else and that kinda gives me the command of the best water. Ill throw 45degrees (say 2 oclock if the river is flowing from right to left) up into the fast water, to where i know im not going to snag, and let that rig drift down into the deep hole. tHIS COVERS TWO SPOTS, one, if there in the head and 2 if there in the pool. What im trying to do is alowing that one shot to work its way down with the flow into the hole, so if the fish r on bottom of the pool, my bait is not floating over them, its going to smack them in the mouth. Heres the key, if I see that im hitting bottom to much or snagging, ill move the shot above the bait up until i see my float telling me that my shot is just hitting and bounceing off the bottom. what this does is your sack acts like a shoot, lifting up off the bottom 1"-3"(depending on speed of flow) where the fish are. What this rig alows me to do is fish a 2'-7'hole without having alot of crap on my line floating in mid air.
If i move into faster water, or deeper water, or deeper faster water, I have that secon shot under my swivel to move down my leader to add more weight to get my bait to the bottom b 4 i pass over the fish. So from float to bait all i have is flouro and a shot bouncing off the bottom just looking like alittle pebble.
As Tom stated, you have to get your bait to the bottom( IF USING EGGS) minnows, jigs not so much. What this is called is DREDGING. You have a 5' leader, with two shots that u can fish almost any hole/run/shoot with by adjusting your shots and float..... If any one has any questions on this set up or how i use it better, shoot me a pm. Hope i explaind it to where some of you understand it.... Sorry about the size of the photo, i dont know how to enlarge it....


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## Mepps3 (Apr 23, 2006)

You are bottom bouncing with a float by your explanation.


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

Mepps3 said:


> You are bottom bouncing with a float by your explanation.


Basicly.... Less hangups, just have to keep adjusting your shot till your nipping the bottom.


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

steelheadBob said:


> IMO, you have to get your eggs to the bottom.... Its not natural for eggs to be floating 3' off the bottom.... That where I see alot off people making mistakes on the river, and throwing into the same spot for over an hour!!!! Heres how I 99% of the time rig up to fish most areas.....Im fishing a 4' deep hole/run. I have my float, shot then micro swivel. I like to have nothing from my float to my bait but one shot and a flouro leader. Ive seen fish move from a line full of shot and passed up the bait.
> If your 5'9" tall, from one fingertip to another fingertip with your arms streatched out is a 5'9" long leader. after tying on my leader, ill put on a 0/3 (sometimes #7 depending on water speed and depth) on my leader right under the swivel, then tie on hook. Ill put my other shot about 12-15" above the hook. then if im using a dropper, ill use a12-14" 4lb leader, tie right to the shank of the hook and throw on a single egg or suckerspawn dipped in egg juice. I try to be the first one at a hole, ill see where the best spot is for me so I can fish the head and mid witout running into everyone else and that kinda gives me the command of the best water. Ill throw 45degrees (say 2 oclock if the river is flowing from right to left) up into the fast water, to where i know im not going to snag, and let that rig drift down into the deep hole. tHIS COVERS TWO SPOTS, one, if there in the head and 2 if there in the pool. What im trying to do is alowing that one shot to work its way down with the flow into the hole, so if the fish r on bottom of the pool, my bait is not floating over them, its going to smack them in the mouth. Heres the key, if I see that im hitting bottom to much or snagging, ill move the shot above the bait up until i see my float telling me that my shot is just hitting and bounceing off the bottom. what this does is your sack acts like a shoot, lifting up off the bottom 1"-3"(depending on speed of flow) where the fish are. What this rig alows me to do is fish a 2'-7'hole without having alot of crap on my line floating in mid air.
> If i move into faster water, or deeper water, or deeper faster water, I have that secon shot under my swivel to move down my leader to add more weight to get my bait to the bottom b 4 i pass over the fish. So from float to bait all i have is flouro and a shot bouncing off the bottom just looking like alittle pebble.
> As Tom stated, you have to get your bait to the bottom( IF USING EGGS) minnows, jigs not so much. What this is called is DREDGING. You have a 5' leader, with two shots that u can fish almost any hole/run/shoot with by adjusting your shots and float..... If any one has any questions on this set up or how i use it better, shoot me a pm. Hope i explaind it to where some of you understand it.... Sorry about the size of the photo, i dont know how to enlarge it....


great illusration but just to be an instigator is that a lung fish ..lol...


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

steelheader007 said:


> great illusration but just to be an instigator is that a lung fish ..lol...


Yea, im trying to get the state to start stocking them.... LOL hey its the best i can do on a laptop Tom... LOL


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

steelheadBob said:


> Yea, im trying to get the state to start stocking them.... LOL hey its the best i can do on a laptop Tom... LOL


I'm still laughing ..lol.. Now I'm crying from laughing ..lol.


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

steelheader007 said:


> I'm still laughing ..lol.. Now I'm crying from laughing ..lol.


I knew I shouldnt of added the fish.....


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

steelheadBob said:


> IMO, you have to get your eggs to the bottom.... Its not natural for eggs to be floating 3' off the bottom.... That where I see alot off people making mistakes on the river, and throwing into the same spot for over an hour!!!! Heres how I 99% of the time rig up to fish most areas.....Im fishing a 4' deep hole/run. I have my float, shot then micro swivel. I like to have nothing from my float to my bait but one shot and a flouro leader. Ive seen fish move from a line full of shot and passed up the bait.
> If your 5'9" tall, from one fingertip to another fingertip with your arms streatched out is a 5'9" long leader. after tying on my leader, ill put on a 0/3 (sometimes #7 depending on water speed and depth) on my leader right under the swivel, then tie on hook. Ill put my other shot about 12-15" above the hook. then if im using a dropper, ill use a12-14" 4lb leader, tie right to the shank of the hook and throw on a single egg or suckerspawn dipped in egg juice. I try to be the first one at a hole, ill see where the best spot is for me so I can fish the head and mid witout running into everyone else and that kinda gives me the command of the best water. Ill throw 45degrees (say 2 oclock if the river is flowing from right to left) up into the fast water, to where i know im not going to snag, and let that rig drift down into the deep hole. tHIS COVERS TWO SPOTS, one, if there in the head and 2 if there in the pool. What im trying to do is alowing that one shot to work its way down with the flow into the hole, so if the fish r on bottom of the pool, my bait is not floating over them, its going to smack them in the mouth. Heres the key, if I see that im hitting bottom to much or snagging, ill move the shot above the bait up until i see my float telling me that my shot is just hitting and bounceing off the bottom. what this does is your sack acts like a shoot, lifting up off the bottom 1"-3"(depending on speed of flow) where the fish are. What this rig alows me to do is fish a 2'-7'hole without having alot of crap on my line floating in mid air.
> If i move into faster water, or deeper water, or deeper faster water, I have that secon shot under my swivel to move down my leader to add more weight to get my bait to the bottom b 4 i pass over the fish. So from float to bait all i have is flouro and a shot bouncing off the bottom just looking like alittle pebble.
> As Tom stated, you have to get your bait to the bottom( IF USING EGGS) minnows, jigs not so much. What this is called is DREDGING. You have a 5' leader, with two shots that u can fish almost any hole/run/shoot with by adjusting your shots and float..... If any one has any questions on this set up or how i use it better, shoot me a pm. Hope i explaind it to where some of you understand it.... Sorry about the size of the photo, i dont know how to enlarge it....


This looks like a good set up and I know that you catch fish. However, doesn't this defeat the purpose of say using a centre pin rig and getting a natural drift? I understand that you are getting your offering in front of their face but won't it appear un natural at certain times?


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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

Wow.....my rig is so different.....that's alot of flouro.....we seem to have stained rivers most of the time here so I only use a 12" leader with a huge stack of shot lol. But I do adjust accordingly 

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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

I love the way ppl get wrapped around the axle about natural presentation! lol these fish grew up initially eating pellets!..lol..


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

steelheader007 said:


> I love the way ppl get wrapped around the axle about natural presentation! lol these fish grew up initially eating pellets!..lol..


Yes but like 216 is saying I agree so from your comment on them eating pellets young should we all be drifting pellets if that is what they are accostmed to eating 

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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

Lundfish said:


> This looks like a good set up and I know that you catch fish. However, doesn't this defeat the purpose of say using a centre pin rig and getting a natural drift? I understand that you are getting your offering in front of their face but won't it appear un natural at certain times?


the (and im going to catch heck on this one) saying you have to have natural drift or have your float/bait speed as the same as the flow is crap!!!!! just because the speed on the top foot of the stream is running mod to fast doesnt mean its doing the same on the bottom.... For exp::: last weekend on the ash,,, The water was coffee staind pretty good, after ten drifts and no dunks, i used my finger on the spool and slowed down the drift by half and started wacking the fish,,,,, later in the afternoon, i was putting a loop in front of the float so the currant would drift my bait alittle faster, i just moved the the shot down alittle more so eggs stay near the bottom,,, and bam, was hookin into fish.... So when people say "you have to drift with the speed of the flow",,,, Its not true at all. If the fish arnt biting, or they were biting and then stopped, try drifting your eggs at differant speeds,,,


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## FISHIN216 (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm just out there trying to catch fish......it doesn't matter how you present your bait as long as it has results....so funny how people get so hung up about how the bait was presented. example: (nymphing vs swinging streamers) the purist crap makes me not even want to fly fish even though I enjoy it

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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

fredg53 said:


> Yes but like 216 is saying I agree so from your comment on them eating pellets young should we all be drifting pellets if that is what they are accostmed to eating
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


you never know what you will catch these fish on.... couple years ago,,, i had every bait you could think of from king, brown, jigs, waxies and salted minnows... I was on rocky, me and this little old man was fishing the ford alone. He was using a bait caster with some old reel standing in his yellow mud boots( and no people it wasnt old george that fish rocky with the red car) slamming the steel, he caught 10-11 to my one. So i had to go ask him what he was using,,,,, he showed me, he was drifting a 1" blackhead/pink bodied crappie tube jig just drifting it in the seams.... He told me , i think the fish are kinda sick of looking at the same colored sacks and jigs, dont you?!?!?!


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## steelheadBob (Jul 6, 2004)

FISHIN216 said:


> I'm just out there trying to catch fish......it doesn't matter how you present your bait as long as it has results....so funny how people get so hung up about how the bait was presented. example: (nymphing vs swinging streamers) the purist crap makes me not even want to fly fish even though I enjoy it
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Thats funny,,, i was looking at my flyrod today thinking the same thing..... I didnt even set it up!


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## CARL510ISLE (Jan 8, 2010)

If you really think steelhead are difficult to hook and catch, make a list of how many different baits, flies, lures, colors, sizes, riggings, techniques, etc will catch them at different times throughout the season. They're a coldwater bucketmouth predator and to think one method and or rig is by far superior to another is simply narrow minded. Put something appealing in front of a rested steelhead and typically they'll eat it, they don't typically don't discriminate on how it got there, or how expensive a rig is bringing it to them.

C510I


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

CARL510ISLE said:


> If you really think steelhead are difficult to hook and catch, make a list of how many different baits, flies, lures, colors, sizes, riggings, techniques, etc will catch them at different times throughout the season. They're a coldwater bucketmouth predator and to think one method and or rig is by far superior to another is simply narrow minded. Put something appealing in front of a rested steelhead and typically they'll eat it, they don't typically don't discriminate on how it got there, or how expensive a rig is bringing it to them.
> 
> C510I


That's not true at all. You have to spend at bare minimum $400 on a centre pin outfit to catch fish!


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## Steelaholic (Sep 5, 2009)

Good post guys. These are all good methods. Sometimes there is some luck involved to. It's all about slamming the steel! I've caught fish with my float hanging down 2 feet from my rod tip on accident. Come on Saturday!


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## Lundfish (Apr 7, 2010)

Steelaholic said:


> Good post guys. These are all good methods. Sometimes there is some luck involved to. It's all about slamming the steel! I've caught fish with my float hanging down 2 feet from my rod tip on accident. Come on Saturday!


Where will be fishable on Saturday? I'm thinking of going to MI which is a little farther away but it looks like it may be the only good option. Then I'm only thinking Sunday it'll be good.


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## fredg53 (Sep 17, 2010)

steelheadBob said:


> you never know what you will catch these fish on.... couple years ago,,, i had every bait you could think of from king, brown, jigs, waxies and salted minnows... I was on rocky, me and this little old man was fishing the ford alone. He was using a bait caster with some old reel standing in his yellow mud boots( and no people it wasnt old george that fish rocky with the red car) slamming the steel, he caught 10-11 to my one. So i had to go ask him what he was using,,,,, he showed me, he was drifting a 1" blackhead/pink bodied crappie tube jig just drifting it in the seams.... He told me , i think the fish are kinda sick of looking at the same colored sacks and jigs, dont you?!?!?!


\

now that is a great point


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