# Train a pointing dog to sit?



## Kableguy (Apr 23, 2009)

From my other post, I'm picking up an English Setter and want to make sure I get her started right. I've read books that say don't teach a pointer to sit and I've read books to say to teach sit. Anyone here have any experience with this? This is the one training decision I'm not comfortable with.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

I can't see any reason why to not teach a pointer to sit. Both of my gsp know how to sit. I wouldn't want it any other way since they are around other people and need to behave.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Nothing more frustrating than a bird dog (or any dog) that has not been command trained. Sit, stay, come and give are must commands IMO.


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## Mr. A (Apr 23, 2012)

I've never trained a hunting dog to hunt game. I have trained attack/guard dogs, bomb dogs, drug dogs, and personal home dogs; all of which knew heel, come, sit, give, down (as in lay down)and at least one "trigger" word.

My thought is if I were in your position and decided against "sit" I would still teach the dog to lay down on command. Otherwise that dogs going to be moving....

Mr. A


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## BaddFish (Jun 20, 2009)

interesting topic... our lab is a master of all the common commands... when we got our Molly- American Brittany- I was told by a professional trainer (owner of her father) that you don't teach pointers to heal or sit...???? I was surprised at this...as we had started doing all the basic obedience commands with her. 

He said They are bred to roam and hunt for themselves and then lock up on POINT. If a pointer gets bored on point- you don't want it to sit. (molly has not done this at all yet!)
He told me that Molly was going to be wide ranger that her Dad was trained to hunt with horses, etc.. for quail.

Molly is a great little girl but she is definitely not as obedient as our lab when he was 1. - she's got that ranging attitude in her for sure. She sits only when she's waiting for us to come to her and pet her...normally in the house.

Come to think of it- the only time I've seen her sit OUTSIDE is when she's near me by the truck... 
So far- I don't see any issues with teaching a pointer to sit.


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## Kableguy (Apr 23, 2009)

Some of what I've read and seen on tape says that if you teach them to sit and they are a soft dog when you are working on whoa and holding a point they may sit instead of point. Again, I have no idea if it is really an issue or not. Other books say go ahead and teach sit.

The ones that don't teach sit say to teach whoa so that the dog stands still for you, such as when giving snacks/medicine, grooming, introducing to new people, etc...

This is the first pointer I'm training from a puppy (used to flushing dogs) so I just want to do the best for her I can.


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## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

Train to sit, and stay. What are you going to do when crossing or walking along a road with oncoming cars, other than put on a leash? Very handy in a suburban setting, equally so in North Dakota or Minnesota. As long as my dog is within earshot, if I give the SIT command, she will sit. If I tell her GET OUT OF THE ROAD, she knows what I mean. Many, many repetitions and corrections during her first two years of life (she's 8 now) have paid off. She's a setter, not Llewellyn, the other kind. Laverick.


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## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

I am much more comfortable with my dog in the "sit" position waiting for a car, truck, or combine to pass than standing. I think the driver is too.


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## vinnystatechamp (Jun 20, 2006)

Our 2 English setters know how to sit when commanded. Neither of them will sit when pointing. Even when the bird buries in and won't fly out, our setters still will hold a standing point.


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## Kableguy (Apr 23, 2009)

Thank you guys very much. I had preferred to teach sit, but some of the recommended books said otherwise. I am going to teach it. I will hunt with her a couple months a year but live with her for twelve. That's more important in my mind.


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## Misdirection (Jul 16, 2012)

I have a 10 year old GSP. First thing I did was have her professionally trained, with the basics of sit, stay, and come at the top of the list. My dog will hold a point no matter what, no problems. She has never sat down on me while on point...

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## Big Mo (Oct 25, 2006)

I have an awesome English Setter, great nose that finds birds other dogs run by. He is smart enough to know the difference between sit and when he is working in the field on point when he may he Whoa. I think all sporting dogs need to honor basic commands. Even the ranging comments below, mine is young and likes to run but he casts close and understands closer, as reinforced with the audible collar. Also, fyi, he is a house pet and needs to know sit. Finally, please don't shock the dog, I think it is cruel.


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## longhaulpointer (Mar 12, 2009)

Big Mo said:


> . Finally, please don't shock the dog, I think it is cruel.


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shock the hell out of that dog.  

seriously some of those books that tell you not to teach a dog to sit are the same books that will tell you that if you bring a dog inside your house that you will ruin it. If you have a dog that sits while on point several things could be happening.... you might take to long to get to the dog, the dog might be to far away, the dog might just be really freaking intelligent and conserving energy for future birds. I've never seen it happen but if it did i would embrace it, hell my gsp darn near lays down when she points.


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## steelmagoo (Apr 13, 2004)

please don't shock the dog, I think it is cruel.

Probably should depend on #1 the dog and #2 how you use the collar. I used a "shock" collar to train my dog. I just tried to do no harm with overuse or over stimulation. I haven't pressed the "shock" button for a couple of years now and to this day she WILL NOT chase deer. That lesson did require a bit of a high setting, and it only took a couple of tries on her part to get the message. Still, when she sees the collar, she thinks it is time to go hunting and gets very excited. I will probably employ the collar on my next dog.


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## Hawg-Eye (Jul 7, 2007)

Okay I've read all the replies and now I'll put in my .02 for the good of the order, so that you can have your cake and eat it too (if you did't already teach the command).

I have seen pointing dogs sit on point, it almost always happens when they are apprehensive or confused by a hunting or training situation. The reason is that they revert to the first "safe" thing they learned to avoid correction or error, which is often sitting because it is the easiest and most common thing to teach.

There is nothing wrong with a PD that sits, just teach the sit AFTER you are 100% certain that the dog understands the whoa command and associates the whoa with birds and you won't have the problem you are concerned about. I cannot think of a reason that you couldn't substitute whoa for sit, other than feeling bad for the dog standing on all fours for an extended time when he could have been sitting. My PD knows sit and will water retrieve but i still find sit to be useless in the duck blind vs using a "place" mat or pop-up blind.

Hope that helps


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## Big Mo (Oct 25, 2006)

Final take away point from me is to remember that training is an art and not science, my Setter has taught me more than I have taught him. However, he learned it faster. They want to please you, enjoy the process, be patient and have fun. Merry Christmas


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## gray0630 (Aug 5, 2007)

IMO - HawgEye has it spot on! The OP made the comment that he would hunt with the dog a few months a year, but live with it for 12. Although true, I think you need to look at the breed of dog you got. You welcomed a "bird dog" or "gun dog" into your home. With that, comes the responsibility to provide what the dog wants - birds! And that means year around. 

I have one of the most versatile breeds of gun dogs available (Pudelpointer). Just as HawgEye mentioned, she is learning "whoa", and will not learn sit until later. But, because I understand the breed I got, and why I got her, I also know she has to stay "birdy" and let her work year around. 

Often times we (humans) expect so much out of our pets, but then don't turn around and give them their wants/needs. 

Just my $0.02.


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## BaddFish (Jun 20, 2009)

Hawg-Eye said:


> Okay I've read all the replies and now I'll put in my .02 for the good of the order, so that you can have your cake and eat it too (if you did't already teach the command).
> 
> *I have seen pointing dogs sit on point, it almost always happens when they are apprehensive or confused by a hunting or training situation. The reason is that they revert to the first "safe" thing they learned to avoid correction or error, which is often sitting because it is the easiest and most common thing to teach.*
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more with this statement sir.
My little Brittany kept sitting under the pressure of a real trainer- I was embarrassed at first and blamed it on my wife (true). After constant praise when she stayed standing during the process- Molly started catching on...that we really did not want her to sit.

So, I re-track what i said earlier in this thread... Don't teach a pointing dog to sit!


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## Angler ss (May 15, 2008)

I don't know anything about teaching a pointer to sit. I will say I hunt pheasants at a club where we release 500 pheasants a year.We release birds a few times a week so there are always some birds on the club grounds during the hunting season. I have seen and hunted around a bunch of different dog two things I have learned. One you can ruin a dog by shocking them seen it happen 3 or 4 times. Second often times the guy with the best trained dog that will sit ,shake,lay whatever other trick the owner expects them to do often times puts up less birds than a dog who's owner expects nothing from his dog other than flush and retrieve. My lab will flush birds with the best of them I don't give a hoot what trick she can do or if she sits when I bark orders to her. Put them birds up and bring em back dead that's all I ask.


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