# Found a timber rattlesnake in morrow county last night



## alumcreeker (Nov 14, 2008)

Was doing some reading and found out they are endangered and have only ever been found in seven counties of ohio. This is soo awesome because i didnt know what kinda snake it was til i picked it ip and its tail took off. It is just a baby and im trying to get ahold of the odnr to see if they are interested in documenting this i have a picture and a video of it rattling its tail. I never find stuff like this and yea it may not be that cool of a find but i am stoked about it here is a picture

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## Snakecharmer (Apr 9, 2008)

No photo? Nice find.


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## FISHIN 2 (Jun 22, 2005)

Found one smashed on the road many years ago while hunting in Kill Deer Plains wildlife area, got it in a photo album somewhere, they are a protected species also. Mike


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## Bonecrusher (Aug 7, 2010)

Since the pic on here didn't work I jacked it from AlumCreekers fb page. Here it is. Pretty sweet find. If I found it I can't gaurantee it would be identifiable


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

Very cool! Was it found in a stream bed? I also live in morrow county and spend a fair amount of time exploring the alum creek watershed.


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## JohnD (Sep 11, 2007)

If it's a young one there are several more. What part of morrow county? I live in morrow as well and hope it wasn't close to me. Hehehehe


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## alumcreeker (Nov 14, 2008)

I own the old fulton rock quarry it was found around the quarry on an old set of railroad tracks i wish i could upload the video ill try here in a few if you look at pictures of timber rattlesnakes in ohio and look at juvenile timbers its one i have to contact to wildlife officer dirk on monday i want to get this offical coolest damn snake ive ever seen ive been doing nothing all day but researching lol
Thanks bonecrusher for uploading my photo i dont know why it didnt come thru
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## freyedknot (Apr 10, 2004)

there is a rattlesnake common to NE ohio called the eastern messauga rattlesnake .could this be one of them instead? http://www.oplin.org/snake/fact pages/rattlesnake_e_mass/rattlesnake_e_mass.html


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## alumcreeker (Nov 14, 2008)

You maybe onto something im going to do some more research thanks frey 

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## WeekendWarrior (Jan 20, 2008)

freyedknot said:


> there is a rattlesnake common to NE ohio called the eastern messauga rattlesnake .could this be one of them instead? http://www.oplin.org/snake/fact pages/rattlesnake_e_mass/rattlesnake_e_mass.html


freyedknot is right. I have seen young timbers and this is definitely not one - Thank goodness!!

This is indeed a Messauga! They are located up your way. You can keep them 

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/Endangered/reptiles/eama-fct-sht.html


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

Guys - that's not a rattlesnake. It's a very young black rat snake, and it's nonvenomous and completely harmless.

When they're adults, they're mostly black, with only a faint pattern, but when young like this one, they are heavily patterned.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

As far as I am aware of Ohio has only three species of venomous snakes, two of which have rattles at the end of the tail (Eastern Massauga & Timber Rattlesnake. The third species is the Northern copperhead. Although many believe the water moccasin occurs in Ohio, it actually ranges no farther north than the Dismal Swamp in southeastern Virginia in the eastern portion of its range, and extreme southern Indiana and Illinois, in the western part of its range. Water moccasins are not native to Ohio.
The Eastern Massauga is in the wildlife preserve at mosquito 


Eastern Massauga http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/spe...dex/easternmassasauga/tabid/6610/Default.aspx

This is the Link for the Ohio type Timber rattler. Ross,pike Adams,Scioto,Jackson,Vinton ,Hocking and Hocking is the only county's reported having them.

Lake.http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/spe...dex/timberrattlesnake/tabid/6777/Default.aspx

Copper Head
http://www.oplin.org/snake/fact pages/copperhead/copperhead.html

Hope these help. Also My cousin got bite real good this year by a Copper Head. They don't give anti venom for them any more. They give him a infection shot and pain killers and sent him home. His arm swelled about 4 times it size from wrist to the elbow and he was in pain. Told him if he had any other reactions come back. Guess it will only kill you if you are allergic to bees and such. And then most the time not.

This is the massauga range in Ohio.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

Here's a bigger picture


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## Saugeye Tom (Oct 6, 2010)

looks like a black and white banded water snake to me. Did you see rattles ? some non poisonus snakes rattle the tail to imitate rattlers. Tom


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

For the love of God, man, it's a black rat snake. It's not a timber rattlesnake, it's not a massasauga, it's not a water snake. It's a black rat snake.

This isn't even remotely controversial. Look up pictures on the internet. 

It's a black rat snake.


The snake in that picture is a black rat snake.


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## leftfordead88 (Oct 22, 2007)

looks like a rat snake to me, black rat snakes are also known to vibrate their tails to ward of potential threats


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## catfishnut (Dec 23, 2010)

It's an eastern fox snake!! I've had both species in my collection when I kept snakes. Fox snakes will mimic the rattle of rattlesnakes to try to fool predators. They are fairly rare now in Ohio and considered a "species of concern" by the ODNR. So if you harmed it, I won't advertise it on here. The first pic is of a young black rat snake the second a fox snake. It could be a very young black rat, but from thoughs markings/pattern I'd say fox snake.....either way a cool find!! The third pic is a adult black rat snake.







snake


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

It's a black rat snake. Juvenile black rat snakes are very heavily marked, just like the one in the photo.

The reason the one in the photo is heavily marked is because it's a black rat snake. It's not a timber rattlesnake, or a massasauga, or a water snake, or a fox snake. It's a black rat snake.

The fox snake's range is much farther north than Morrow county.

Black

Rat


Snake.


It's a black....rat...snake.


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## catfishnut (Dec 23, 2010)

Andrew S said:


> It's a black rat snake. Juvenile black rat snakes are very heavily marked, just like the one in the photo.
> 
> The reason the one in the photo is heavily marked is because it's a black rat snake. It's not a timber rattlesnake, or a massasauga, or a water snake, or a fox snake. It's a black rat snake.
> 
> ...


Well I check out where the heck Morrow county was.....a little to far south of lake Erie.......ya got my vote for juvenile black rat snake!!!LOL


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## flylogicsteelhead (Oct 4, 2006)

I find this thread so amusing. Are you sure it's a black rat snake...? 


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

flylogicsteelhead said:


> I find this thread so amusing. Are you sure it's a black rat snake...?



I'm leaning in that direction...


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

Bonecrusher said:


> Since the pic on here didn't work I jacked it from AlumCreekers fb page. Here it is. Pretty sweet find. If I found it I can't gaurantee it would be identifiable


I just looked at your photo. What you have is a Eastern Fox snake. The reason you probably thought it was a rattler is because they rattle there tail to fool you. Their found a lot up in the lake Erie area. But also all around Ohio.

Here is a pic of one.


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

viper1 said:


> I just looked at your photo. What you have is a Eastern Fox snake. The reason you probably thought it was a rattler is because they rattle there tail to fool you. Their found a lot up in the lake Erie area. But also all around Ohio.


No, they are not found "all around Ohio". They're uncommon, and their range is just a very small portion of the state, up near Erie. He found the snake in Morrow County, which is well outside the range of the fox snake. There's another snake, however, that is closely related to the fox snake, looks a lot like it when it's a juvenile, is indeed found "all around Ohio", including Morrow County, and is called a black rat snake. That's what his picture is.

It's a juvenile black rat snake.


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

Black rat snake.


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## buckzye11 (Jul 16, 2009)

The range for the Fox Snake is just NOT correct for the OP's find. +1 Andrew, although he already +ed himself a few times


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## Fishman (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm gonna bet on black rat too, rattle snakes definitally arn't the only snakes that rattle their tails when they're being pestered.


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

Rattlesnakes also have rattles on the ends of their tails, and the snake in the picture clearly does not. Even newborn rattlesnakes have a very obvious "button". It would be visible in the photo. As several others have mentioned, several species of snakes will rapidly shake their tails - but this doesn't make them rattlesnakes.

But this doesn't matter because, in fact, the snake in that photo does not really look even remotely like a rattlesnake to a trained eye. 

The pattern on the snake and the basic body proportions resemble only one group of snakes, the rat snakes. The fact that the neck is very thin relative to the head, and the fact that the eyes are large clearly indicates that the snake is a juvenile.

This leaves only two options: black rat snake and fox snake. The snake was found well outside the range of the fox snake.

Ergo...


It's a black rat snake.


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## leftfordead88 (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm still saying young black rat snake, although it does look a bit like an eastern fox snake. Young black rats come in all colors, we had a bunch of them that hatched by our cabin in glen Helen and everyone of them was a different color. We caught dozens. Some of them looked like fox snakes some looked like milk snakes. 

And I know fox snakes well , as I used to catch them all the time at Kelly's island. 

Let's see what the odnr confirms


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## leftfordead88 (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm still saying young black rat snake, although it does look a bit like an eastern fox snake. Young black rats come in all colors, we had a bunch of them that hatched by our cabin in glen Helen and everyone of them was a different color. We caught dozens. Some of them looked like fox snakes some looked like milk snakes. 

And I know fox snakes well , as I used to catch them all the time at Kelly's island. 

Let's see what the odnr confirms


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## alumcreeker (Nov 14, 2008)

Well this sucks lol i thought i had something here olwell shows my knowledge on snakes sorry all 

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## catfishnut (Dec 23, 2010)

alumcreeker said:


> Well this sucks lol i thought i had something here olwell shows my knowledge on snakes sorry all
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Hey!!!! It's still a cool find, not everyone gets to see/find a rat snake!!!......and this thread has been a blast to read!


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## Judster (May 30, 2006)

I think it's a Black Fox Rattler.


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

Judster said:


> I think it's a Black Fox Rattler.


Future politician right here, folks.


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## reo (May 22, 2004)

I showed the pic to a buddy who is a snake guy. He loves them and has owned dozens over the years. He is pretty sure it is a black rat snake. Anyone agree??


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

Will grant the photo isn`t "up close and personal" but after looking at the picture for a moment seems that the head of the snake in question is oval in shape, as opposed to roughly triangular. And it`s too hard to tell about this 1 but don`t most rattlers have the pit gland holes below the nostrils? These are far more developed in Sidewinders, allowing them to "sense" infra red energy sources such as body heat of prey or threats even in total darkness.


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## Andrew S (Jul 7, 2011)

Just shoot me.


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## acklac7 (May 31, 2004)

Black Crappie


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## catfishnut (Dec 23, 2010)

andrew s said:


> just shoot me.


lmao!!!!!!


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## H2O Mellon (Apr 5, 2004)

acklac7 said:


> Black Crappie


Dang it! I was hoping to say it!


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## Bigjoe (Aug 13, 2011)

Andrew S said:


> Just shoot me.












Hey Andrew, here's a smiley for you...


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## SeanStone (Sep 8, 2010)

viper1 said:


> This is the Link for the Ohio type Timber rattler. Ross,pike Adams,Scioto,Jackson,Vinton ,Hocking and Hocking is the only county's reported having them.


I worked for the ODNR for the last two summers setting gypsy moth traps in Pike, Adams, and Scioto Counties. 90% of my 40 hour week was spent walking through the woods to my trap site. I never personally saw a timber rattler while in the woods, but there were dozens of people who advised me to watch out for them while on their property. Several people in southern Adams, and Scioto counties had pictures to prove their existence. One guy had a picture of a dozen of them he had killed after removing an old building. He knew it was in violation of the law, but he said he and his kids were in immanent danger so it was justified. LOL. Several years ago one rattler turned up in Shawnee State forest particularly at Turkey Creek Lake on the beach, and I am pretty sure there were ODNR officials and Park Rangers involved. I wonder why it wasn't reported? 


Andrew S. thanks for the laugh.


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## musikman43155 (May 14, 2008)

Wow! Cool rattlesnake!


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## gerb (Apr 13, 2010)

this could be the first OGF thread ive actually uncontrollably laughed to. thank you andrew and acklac7.


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## slimdaddy45 (Aug 27, 2007)

There is timber rattlers in athens county also espeacialy in the Dorr run area just above Nelsonville when I worked in the oil fields would be up in there working and seen quite a few in that area I was always told that there was a survival camp in Dorr run lots of yrs ago and they turned them loose in there and they would catch them for food so the old timers said but dont really know but I do know there are in there cause Ive seen them. A guy killed one up there and showed it off and he got in trouble with the law


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## James F (Jul 2, 2005)

Must be an April Fool's Joke You would known if it was a Rattle Snake the minute you picked it up,baby or not they don't play well with others! You would have been bitten before you realized what happened.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

James F said:


> Must be an April Fool's Joke You would known if it was a Rattle Snake the minute you picked it up,baby or not they don't play well with others! You would have been bitten before you realized what happened.


Not necessarily. If handled properly, on a good day, you may or may not be bitten lol.. Not saying you should ever handle a dangerous, venomous animal without the proper precaution, but it's not a rule that they strike.

Many snakes shake their tails, not just the fox snakes. It can even make noise. We have a bunch of angry corn snakes(rat snakes basically). They crack me up.


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## vc1111 (Apr 13, 2004)

Mr. Praline : I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. It's dead, that's what's wrong with it.

Owner : No, no, 'e's ah... he's resting.

Mr. Praline : Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

Owner : No no, h-he's not dead, he's, he's restin'!

Mr. Praline : Restin'?

Owner : Y-yeah, restin.' Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, isn't it, eh? Beautiful plumage!

Mr. Praline : The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead!


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## Eric E (May 30, 2005)

Black rattler snake...


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## JCFring (Aug 16, 2010)

It appears to be a Rattlebox Fox Snake... they are VERY rare and only found on April Fools Day.


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## MassillonBuckeye (May 3, 2010)

Rattlefox Box Snake. Clearly.


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## Govbarney (Jan 3, 2011)

Find it again and let it bite you, that will settle this argument.


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## Bucket Mouth (Aug 13, 2007)

vc1111 said:


> Mr. Praline : I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. It's dead, that's what's wrong with it.
> 
> Owner : No, no, 'e's ah... he's resting.
> 
> ...


Its a python. A Monty Python.


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## fallen513 (Jan 5, 2010)

are muskies venomous


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## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

fallen513 said:


> are muskies venomous


only the females


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## WCO217RET (Feb 8, 2008)

That is NOT a rattle snake of any kind it is a juvinile black snake it is nonvenoumus.
100% positive


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## nicksta500 (Jun 5, 2010)

might be a chupacabra....


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## Stampede (Apr 11, 2004)

I've seen this snake on t.v. before .It's the pink tip rattler ,very rare.Most times you don't see rabbits in the same area with these snakes.Most rabbits have laughed them selfs to death.


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## Tatonka (Aug 23, 2007)

By any chance could this be a, umm, uhh by any chance is this a black rat snake?
Sorry Andrew, I couldn't resist


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## Tatonka (Aug 23, 2007)

gerb said:


> this could be the first OGF thread ive actually uncontrollably laughed to. thank you andrew and acklac7.


Look up the thread on the white snapping turtle, dubbed "Mr White"


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## AnglinAddict (Nov 22, 2004)

It's a cobra.


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## fontinalis (Mar 29, 2011)

Does the cobra have large talons?


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## James F (Jul 2, 2005)

Is this for real? Who makes this Sh%$ up? I love this thread lmao !


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## Tatonka (Aug 23, 2007)

James F said:


> Is this for real? Who makes this Sh%$ up? I love this thread lmao !


Well it isn't of the "white snapping turtle" quality but it is good


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## basstrackerman (Apr 6, 2004)

its definately a black rat snake! a young one.


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## monsterKAT11 (Jun 20, 2004)

alright guys don't jump all over me for thinking out of the box here, but the more i look at this picture i'm thinking it might actually be a young black rat snake. is there ANYONE OUT THERE that may agree with me?!


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## Bigjoe (Aug 13, 2011)




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## CATMAN447 (Jun 12, 2011)

Juvenile black rat snake


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

It`s a Gabon Viper; VERY dangerous!


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## James F (Jul 2, 2005)

I have seen some Snakes actually roll over and play dead,Just like this thread


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## Tatonka (Aug 23, 2007)

Nothing played dead like that white turtle thread


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## IGbullshark (Aug 10, 2012)

obviously its a black mamba.


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## KaGee (Sep 8, 2006)

Tatonka said:


> Nothing played dead like that white turtle thread


That thread was euthanized... put out of it's misery.


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## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

slimdaddy45 said:


> There is timber rattlers in athens county also espeacialy in the Dorr run area just above Nelsonville when I worked in the oil fields would be up in there working and seen quite a few in that area I was always told that there was a survival camp in Dorr run lots of yrs ago and they turned them loose in there and they would catch them for food so the old timers said but dont really know but I do know there are in there cause Ive seen them. A guy killed one up there and showed it off and he got in trouble with the law


I remember that. I was living near Glouster at the time...


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## Deazl666 (Mar 30, 2012)

Wouldn't a black rat snake be black? Just askin...


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## Lowell H Turner (Feb 22, 2011)

BTW, I would hope that snake had on either jogging pants or leggings, cause it COLD out there!


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## hoplovestofish (Aug 3, 2010)

Looks like it has most of us rattled.hop


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Lowell H Turner said:


> BTW, I would hope that snake had on either jogging pants or leggings, cause it COLD out there!


It was around 70-80 degrees when this thread was started last year.


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## CowboyWyatt (Mar 2, 2013)

Do farm boys have to do everything? 
Tim ers do have a very distinctive triangular head as do common watersnakes when very disturbed and angry. Watersnakes typically stay near water sources. Blacksnakes are indeed black even as juveniles. I have seen many as a child and adult. These are constrictors and feed on vertebrates, fish, and some insects. 
The photos I have seen are of a milk snake. They are non-poisonous and are constrictors of mice, rats, and whatever is of size they can get in their hinged jaws. They can attain a size of 6-8' at the largest and typically are not real fat unless they have had a sizeable meal. It is of the king snake family and may likely be found where rodent populations are found. They do have a habit of vibrating the tail when disturbed as an attempt to insist they are a rattlesnake. They can shed the tail and escape. 
The head of a milk snake is noticeably round and not triangular. 
The name came from when milking cows, one would show up in the barn in search of a meal. Many associated them.with milking the cow as an old wives tale. Serious business. 
Barns have many rodents because of grain, hay, straw, and such. As adults, the colors remain. White or cream background with pink markings surrounded by black can be expected. They are brightest after molting. When the eyes are opaque grey or white, it is preparing to shed It's skin within a few days. They don't drink milk as was believed early in our nation's history. 
I got great laughs at this thread also. Can't believe no one knows their snakes. 
Massassauga rattlers are known as a swamp rattled and are found in dense populations usually isolated locally. Go to the next swamp over from them and none are found. They attain no more than 3' and can be rather chubby for the length. 


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## CowboyWyatt (Mar 2, 2013)

I can't believe how long this thread has been running and it took a farm boy to get this done. I have lots of hands on experience with native snake species. FYI, black snakes can attain up to 12' in length and will intimidate by rising up to face level of a human. Years ago in Portage County, a ranger I knew as a friend of the family told me of a blacksnake he encountered during a routine inspection of a fishing spot in West Branch. The snake was basking on sizeable rock outcroppings and rose up to greet him as he rounded a bend in the path. Mr. Wolfe retreated hastily back to his truck and left. He returned on another day. Large blacksnakes are extremely unusual and somewhat rare to find. Most never live long enough to attain much more than. 6'. They are also commonly known as black racers as they move rather fast when fleeing from danger. They are prey for hawks and eagles. 
Know the critters where you are going as safety and precautions. 

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## leftfordead88 (Oct 22, 2007)

CowboyWyatt said:


> I can't believe how long this thread has been running and it took a farm boy to get this done. I have lots of hands on experience with native snake species. FYI, black snakes can attain up to 12' in length and will intimidate by rising up to face level of a human. Years ago in Portage County, a ranger I knew as a friend of the family told me of a blacksnake he encountered during a routine inspection of a fishing spot in West Branch. The snake was basking on sizeable rock outcroppings and rose up to greet him as he rounded a bend in the path. Mr. Wolfe retreated hastily back to his truck and left. He returned on another day. Large blacksnakes are extremely unusual and somewhat rare to find. Most never live long enough to attain much more than. 6'. They are also commonly known as black racers as they move rather fast when fleeing from danger. They are prey for hawks and eagles.
> Know the critters where you are going as safety and precautions.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Gee thanks, you really saved the day


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## benjaminrogers (Jul 11, 2011)

My Goodness, you're all wrong!!!!

It's my ex-wife. :smilingface (52):


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## CowboyWyatt (Mar 2, 2013)

Give the snake credit; their intentions are well known. Women, well, I refuse bags at the store. Had one at home years ago. Mine was "lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut." That was 31 years ago. Quote from Ellie Mae Clampett, Beverly Hillbillies. 

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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Andrew S said:


> Just shoot me.




..hang in there andrew..i agree ita a young black rat snake too...your not wrong on that call... you can only lead a horse to water man...


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

Lowell H Turner said:


> It`s a Gabon Viper; VERY dangerous!


..lowell, did you miss your meds again? ; )


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

CowboyWyatt said:


> They attain no more than 3' and can be rather chubby for the length.
> 
> 
> 
> ...i got one of those...


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## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

leftfordead88 said:


> Gee thanks, you really saved the day
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


HAHAHAH!!! sure did......thank god for farmboys


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## tadluvadd (Feb 19, 2012)

Be careful when handling snakes here in ohio.you never know-----you just might have a death alder in your hands.or a corral snake. or a black mamba.i heard they let a bunch of those loose near a survival camp in Martinsburg.and now they find them every time the tear down old buildings,or when looking for the easter bunny. i had to join in!


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## E_Lin (Jun 30, 2011)

This thread, like many others, shows the clear and desperate need for a "Cabin Fever" sticky.

Make it happen, Mods.


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## catman1991 (Feb 20, 2012)

thats not a rattler, ive been keeping/breeding non venomous snakes for 10 years, thats a eastern milk snake, or black rat. babies shake their tales to mimic that of a rattler. youre in no danger with that little guy. nonvenomous and eats rodents, frogs, etc.


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## viper1 (Apr 13, 2004)

60 years in Ohio and ive only killed them on other states. The pygmy rattler is know to be in the protected zone of misquito lake though.

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## CowboyWyatt (Mar 2, 2013)

Actually, the blue racer, black racer or black snake, eastern black rat snake and milk snake, of which there are two subspecies, all vibrate their tail and attempt to convince you they are far more dangerous than they really are. 
All these snakes are different in appearance. Milk snakes are kingsnakes. All have a different genus except the racers which are known as Coluber constrictor constrictor and Coluber constrictor foxi. 

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