# Lake erie fishing regulation changes purposed



## reeltime (Feb 26, 2006)

I am a lake erie charter captian, and a member of the North Coast Charter Boat Association. Sun. 3/5/2006 we attended the odnr district 3 meeting to purpose two new fishing regulation changes on lake erie. The first change would allow a angler to keep one small mouth bass of 18" or longer per day during the the closed season. This would allow that angler to keep one trophy fish for mounting if he chooses so. The other change would allow a angler to use up to 4 rods per person only in the open waters of Lake Erie. This would help the angler to catch more fish on those slow days, and give him a better chance to get his limit catch. I would like to get some feed back on this from the people that fish Lake Erie. If you agree with these purposals there will be petitions at a number of bait shops to sign. If you can not find a petition you can contact myself. T


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Great news, but posted in the wrong place. I am guessing this will be moved to the lodge or The lake erie fishing report forum.


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## johnboy111711 (Apr 7, 2004)

i'd love to see a limit placed on the number of big smallmouth kept per person, regardless of season, maybe 1-2 over 18in


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## kingfisher (Nov 29, 2004)

the limit for smallmouth should remain none in the spawn. THey should atleast put a slot or something for the rest of the year as well, smallmouth fisheries are fragile, especially with all that pressure and invasive species. DNR is just going to hurt the fishery if they allow anglers to keep fish during the spawn, gobies will do a lot of damage, smallmouth dont taste that great anyway, and to mount an 18 inch fish would be pointless. I catch 18 in smallies fairly often, they are not big enough for a decoration, I get more satisfaction out of releasing them to swim again. Unless it's like an 8 lb fish, I'd never mount one. DNR finally did something good to conserve a fishery, It'd be a shame for them to screw it up. As for the rods, I dont think 4 rods are necesary for one angler, no matter how slow the fishing, it couldnt do that much help, if they arent biting , they aren't biting.


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## PatMcD (Feb 28, 2006)

Even if one releases a smallmouth will it return to and guard the eggs or will the gobies already have devoured them? Why keep a female in the fall if loaded with eggs?


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## wave warrior (Oct 2, 2005)

i'd like to be able to use more rods...two guys trolling w/4 rods total when i can pull 6 or 8 rods...as for smallies...release ALL during spawn!!! 18" erie smallie a trophy...please!!


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## theprowler (Jul 14, 2004)

new york and pa. have trophy season where you can keep 1 fish over 20 inches per person per day... I agree 18 inches is not a trophy in lake erie... 4 rods why not as long as you do not keep more than your bag limit of fish... this is what really gets me, the odnr pays people to go out with binoculars and count rods, but the comercial guys rape the lake on a daily basis and they are only checked once in a while... yeah they caught some last year, but they will out there doing it again this year, pay someone to watch our border around kelly's for all of the canadian guy stringing their nets into us water... you want to protect the fishery , then lets quit screwing around and protect the fishery!!


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## chaunc (Apr 11, 2004)

Didn't know this would be such a touchy topic. I only fish erie about 5 times a year. If i could run 4 rods, i could find out which baits are working, faster and enjoy myself more. I dont have to keep a limit. I enjoy the thrill of catching them. Nothing wrong with C&R. It would be a challenge to run 2 dipseys and 2 in-line boards by myself  . Specially when i get 3 hits at the same time  . As for smallies, i've only kept one in all the years i've been fishing erie. Just wanted to taste the meat. Not much better than those green ones to me. Throw em all back all season.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

as for 4 rods,i don't see a problem with it.although i don't fish erie that much,and rarely for smallies,i like the situation as it is.








> It would be a challenge to run 2 dipseys and 2 in-line boards by myself . Specially when i get 3 hits at the same time


 LOL,chaunc.it IS a challenge  
i had that experience with ol raybob on indian lake last time i fished with him.he decided he's just play captain while running 2 flatlines and 2 in-lines.big mistake.didn't take long to get a triple and tangle boards,fish and lines
the rest of the day it was 2 lines out


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't agree at all with the changes suggested by the charter captains. IT could possibly provide a slight increase in bookings as I believe closure of the smallmouth season during spawn has reduced the desire of some to invest in a charter for walleye only during that period of time. 
I fish ruggles regularly and have enjoyed the lack of boats targeting the smallmouth during the spawn. Maybe, we will have the abundance of smallmouth return in the next five years if the closed season is maintained.
My vote is NO>


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

1995 was the last time (and my first time) I was at lake erie, so I could care less what rules they have up there and if they pass more, so be it, if they don't, then so be it. And to say the least, I wasn't impressed with the lake. We fished for about 7 hours and not so much as a bite. Maybe people that live up there and fish it alot have luck from shore, but to me, if you aint got a boat, it isn't even worth thinking of the name erie. And I don't have a boat (and really don't want one with all the money you spend just to keep it running). I will stick to my float tube and visit the ponds and small lakes that boaters can't get to as well as the ones they can get to. I just aint going to take my tube to erie. I wouldn't feel safe.


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

sounds like you guys are simply out to pimp the resource for your own gain. keep the current regs. every other great lakes state has more restrictive regs than ohio and the charter captains seem to be doing just fine.


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## Shortdrift (Apr 5, 2004)

Rod&Reel said:


> 1995 was the last time (and my first time) I was at lake erie, so I could care less what rules they have up there and if they pass more, so be it, if they don't, then so be it.
> 
> It is truly unfortunate that you are so uncaring about body's of water other than those you fish. If all true fishermen had that attitude, the waters you fish might be less productive due to lack of controls and management. I for one am concerned about all the waters in Ohio as well as the continental United States from a standpoint of limits, management and pollution.
> 
> As far as your having no luck from shore you are wrong about that also. There are plenty of very good places to shore fish on Erie, particularly in the Sandusky Bay area and West. Did you stop at any bait stores, drop a few dollars and ask for information?


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I would not sign or support the changes you propose. Nor do I believe many fishermen will support your cause.


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

I don't think any bass should be kept during the closed season either,personally,I don't see the need for any smallies to be kept up there at anytime period.I also think that two rods per angler is plenty,no need to change that.I won't even comment about the remark made about Erie's shore fishing opportunities,if you can't catch fish from Erie's banks,take up tennis!


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

> The first change would allow a angler to keep one small mouth bass of 18" or longer per day during the the closed season.


 The so called "C&R Only" reg was put in place as a result of sound scientific research into the decline of the erie smallmouth. I'd hate to see it abandoned before it's benefits can even be measured.




> The other change would allow a angler to use up to 4 rods per person only in the open waters of Lake Erie. This would help the angler to catch more fish on those slow days, and give him a better chance to get his limit catch.


 LOL! Why stop at 4 rods...why not 10? Just because hook & line anglers have failed to catch their yearly walleye quota (TAC) does not mean we should think up new ways to deplete the resource. I say keep it at 2 rods. By the way, what constitutes "open waters"?


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## Rod&Reel (Jun 4, 2005)

Shortdrift said:


> It is truly unfortunate that you are so uncaring about body's of water other than those you fish. If all true fishermen had that attitude, the waters you fish might be less productive due to lack of controls and management. I for one am concerned about all the waters in Ohio as well as the continental United States from a standpoint of limits, management and pollution.
> 
> As far as your having no luck from shore you are wrong about that also. There are plenty of very good places to shore fish on Erie, particularly in the Sandusky Bay area and West. Did you stop at any bait stores, drop a few dollars and ask for information?


I use lures, so there was no point in stopping at a bait store. I bet the shore fishing is good, for those that go up there alot and learn where to and not to fish. That was my first time there and unless somebody ask me to come along, probably my last.


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## cw261 (May 11, 2004)

My vote is to allow the trained fisheries biologists to make their own decisions based on their research - let them do their job and we'll all benefit from a healthy fish population for years to come.


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## Dazed and Confused (Aug 31, 2004)

1 rod + 1 walleye + 1 day = 1 great day on the water

2 rods + 1 person = Who would hold my beer ?


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> 2 rods + 1 person = Who would hold my beer ?


 very legitimate point on that one


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

Dazed and Confused said:


> 2 rods + 1 person = Who would hold my beer ?


Trust me, I'd hold it for you...!


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Rodney,

I've seen you when you were holding a bunch! You even had one in your hand


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

My reputation preceed's me once again.  

I say leave the current reg's as they are until the fish population's dictate otherwise.


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## skipjack11 (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm sure someone offers replica mounts as small as 18"so why kill a spawning female?  Why allow 4 rods on Erie when the rest of the State is limited to two? I trust the fisheries biologists can determine what is best for the future of Lake Erie.


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## ltfd596 (Apr 15, 2005)

To be honest with you, I never target small mouth. If i catch one.. GREAT, but if I am not going to eat it, it gets returned. I have only ever caught one small mouth large enough to consider tropy (in which I would get it mounted) but since I am not a bass fisherman, per se, I have no use for a mount.

As far as increasing the number of rods.... I have a hard enough time manageing my two. Let alone when I go out with my FIL. I watch the 4 rods while he drives. On more than one occasion I have has 2 hook ups at once and I do not "multi-task" well. 

I am a firm beliver that the rules were put inplace for a reason by someone who is much more intelligent than me. So I say leave it alone!


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## peple of the perch (Sep 13, 2004)

keep it none for the smallies u keep one female u wipe out a hole generation.
4 rods should be used on lake erieor in a boat and while ice fishing. if u have 4 rods while shore fishing than their r to many lines out


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

Ban Smallmouth fishing during the spawn and immediately afterwards til the numbers come back up.


I signed the petition for the 4 rod limit but would really like to see a boat limit of 10-16 rods no matter how many are on the boat. Can you imagne 6 paying customers, 1st mate and captain trolling 32 lines.


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## woodworker2001 (Jan 23, 2006)

I dont feel you should keep any female fish during spawning let alone a species which was on the decline so recently like the Smallies. 

As to the rods. If you cant catch them with 2 rods what the heck good will it do you to put out 2 more rods with the same types of baits and presentations that are already not working on the first two. 

LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!!


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## fishingguy (Jan 5, 2006)

WOW!! After reading all the posts in this thread I think i'll go up the corner bar and start a fight!! LOL oh and maybe a couple a beers too!!


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> WOW!! After reading all the posts in this thread I think i'll go up the corner bar and start a fight!! LOL oh and maybe a couple a beers too!!


 well,if i'm there,just drink the beers,and leave me alone.i'm not in the mood for a fight   
i'll even buy,if that's what takes


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## Dawitner (Apr 25, 2004)

The only time it would be practical for me to run 4 rods per person is if I was in the boat by myself. Even with one other person 8 rods is more than too many in a 20' Lund. Maybe some of the "good" charter captains can run 4/person but IMO 6 paying guests, captain and mate (you sure as HE** would need one with that many lines) equals 32 @#$%*&*& rods. Not real, not practical and probably a moot point to argue anyway. Even if you are legally allowed to run that many, practically, you cant. 

As for the smallies, catch them, look at them, take a picture if you want and throw them back. PERIOD. Just my .02.


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## Bob Why (Jul 16, 2004)

I think we should all C/R on the smallies. As stated they aren't as good to eat as the perch and walleye and an 18 in is not a trophy. 

As far as rods go, I have thought for years that the limit should be at least 3 per person on all waters. With a limit of how many fish you can keep per day. what difference does the number of rods make? At least the guys fishing 1 or 2 in a boat would have a chance to maybe catch a few fish. Sure is sad when 1 or 2 guys are out in their boat and not catching anything and the guys with 4 to 6 or more on the boat are catching, because they are covering more of the water. Yes we have all seen days when the fish are biting and you have trouble keeping 2 rods from tangling. But most of last year, you could have run 6 rods each and not had a problem. A lot of other states have a 3 or more rod limit.


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## JCsHOOK (Apr 18, 2004)

I'd like to be able to use 4 rods when I'm let's say 3 miles off shore or more or somthing like that. But make sure you dont take more than your limit. As far as the Bass thing goes I would leave it the way it is.


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## jeffmo (Apr 7, 2004)

i personally wouldn't keep a smallie during this period.just doesn't make any sense to me.worrying about the now and not caring about the future is what it amounts to.
4 rods?,i could care less.as for me i couldn't enjoy myself trying to manage 4 rods.that's not my definition of relaxing while i fish.


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## ERIE REBEL (Jan 28, 2006)

Shortdrift I think you hit it with the more bookings issue. Smallmouth are a great fighting fish. Why keep them when eyes and perch eat a whole lot better. IF you catch a trophy it should only be kept after the spawn if then. In this day and age great replicas can be made as long as you have the right measurements.


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## liquidsoap (Oct 22, 2005)

Dawitner said:


> As for the smallies, catch them, look at them, take a picture if you want and throw them back. PERIOD. Just my .02.



Agreed.... i only keep smallies when i fish with my cuzin he loves em..... 
that is in the summer by the way, dont want to scare anyone
but other then that, for the most part i keep none of my fish....
with a few exceptions....

also i have my hands full with 2 rods, i cant really see somebody using 4
i can just amagine seeing a super tangle coming from that


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## Walter Adkins (May 20, 2004)

I do not have a problem with the rods going to 4. Fishermen still will have to obey the limit law. Now for the smallies; 18" trophy who are you kidding, I would be broke with mounting fees from just last year if an 18"er is a trophy. No small mouth should be keep on the lake until the numbers show a healthy fish population. I would suggest that only one small mouth a day be keep over the 18" mark for the rest of the season. Just a hillbilly's view on the subject.


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

I think I have more questions than solutions, 1st...did over fishing cause the decline in the smallmouth numbers? I would guess not...2nd does anyone eat them? I think they taste like mud.

18" is no trophy in my book...maybe 22" at the minimum.

unavoidable ecological changes have occured and will continue to do so, some species have addapted, other have and will not. Perhaps this is the smallmouth's fate, but I will continue to contend that the re-introduction of other native species should be researched, namely the lake sturgeon. Just imagine those cows grazing on a lakebed full of zebra muscles.


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## Buzzman (May 1, 2004)

something similar to what Dale Hollow has now.


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## FAT CAT (Feb 14, 2006)

I'm against keeping and smallmouth during the spawn and believe some sort of slot limit should be set during the rest of the season. For that matter the same rules should be applied to the walleyes. With regard to the 4 rod question, it might be OK to set a 4 minimum per boat to allow fishermen alone to have a beter chance to figure out a pattern but I think the overall limit should remain at 2 rods per fisherman.
Catch, photo and release is cool!!!

FAT CAT
Fish today in consideration of tomorrow!


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## cedar1 (Feb 5, 2006)

It seems that there are those in our ranks that only want to live for the moment, we MUST look to the future. It's not about how many we can catch today, it's about still being able to catch them 10 yrs. from now!!


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## WLB (Apr 6, 2004)

Leave the smallies alone! They finally got the charters and tourny boys off them during the spawn, now maybe they'll have some chance at a recovery?


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## Saildog (Aug 2, 2004)

IMO, keep the smallie season just as it is. The general mentality towards keeping fish has changed radically in the last 20 years. A lot of people spend a lot of money to fish PA and western trout streams that are strictly C&R. 

As for using 4 rods, I fail to see how this would really help the charter captain. If you have three clients on board, or two clients and a mate, you can still run eight lines out of the boat. Am I missing something?


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## justin (Oct 26, 2005)

I fell the smallmouth season should be totally closed during the spawning months, not just no keeping bass. If a male bass if caught and pulled off his nest then the nest is open to gobies. The gobies can consume the entire nest of eggs by the time the smallmouth as returned to his nest. Even if the male returns to eggs at his nest, he would not have enough enegry to defend his nest. So, I think no smallmouth fishing during the spawning months.

As for the number of rods, it wouldnt matter to me as long as the number of fish fept is with in the limit.

justin


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## billybob7059 (Mar 27, 2005)

I think the rules should be changed so that you can only keep 2 walleyes during the spawn and only one smallmouth over 21'' all year long. I think two rods is more than enough. I have been on several boats and even when the fishing is slow I still have a good time. And most capt. don't need more rods out. they catch fish it seems no matter what. We need to look at rebuilding the fish stocks to their levels of the past.


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## fishon (Apr 20, 2004)

i say kept it that way it is... period .. lets worry about the future about our great lake erie... and lets gang up on the commecial clowns and canuck pirates...

as some quoted before .. more than two rods... i doubt thany any one can run 32 lines... plus i do need hold a beer and a keilbsasa in the other hand ...so 2 is enough for me

as for the float tube guy...... your .02 cents were just about worthless... please put back in you piggy bank and leave it there... there was no need for your comment or opinon..... kept floating in you little tube on little pond .. and let us boaters and shore guys who choose the catch real fish, fish........ "shut up &fish!".... quote WalleyeCentral.com.



ok enough of that.....lets all just do our part !

Go tribe!


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

I agree wholeheartedly with Justin. I vote No Smallmouth Fishing during the spawn. I also vote catch and release year-'round. If you want a trophy, go bowling.

Number of lines? Who cares? If a bunch of guys on a boat want to look like clowns in a circus, go for it. Just release the fish--if you can manage to do that successfully.



River Walker said:


> I won't even comment about the remark made about Erie's shore fishing opportunities, if you can't catch fish from Erie's banks, take up tennis!


Hey River, that was a comment.


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## twistertail (Apr 10, 2004)

Having a closed season for smallies doesnt make sense to me if you can still fish for them and catch them, a closed season should be closed season. I understand you could still catch them while fishing for other things but if you can still target them but not keep them just doesnt make sense, a number of those fish will die from being caught and you are disrupting the spawn which is supposed to be why its a closed season anyway. So I think it should be a closed season during the spawn and then one fish over 18" or what ever size someone wants to decide is a trophy fish. 

As far as the rods, doesnt matter as long as the bag limits are the same. I like the idea of so many rods per boat instead of so many per person. I have seen where people use spider rigs with 6 or more poles for crappie in other states so dont see why it would be a problem here.


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

I agree. By catch and release year-'round, I mean at all times other than during the spawn. Closed during the spawn. C&R all other times.


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## zoar (Apr 19, 2004)

Perch fishing bores me and I don't have a large enough of a boat to go 900 miles out on the lake to catch walleye, so I smallmouth fish.... and I keep some ...I think they taste good.


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## WLB (Apr 6, 2004)

> Having a closed season for smallies doesn't make sense to me if you can still fish for them and catch them, a closed season should be closed season.


There's really no way to enforce a closed season from c/r, the walleye are right there with them. 
What it has done is taken a ton of tourney pressure off them. 1 example...In 1990 I could go to Ruggles on any given weekday and there might be a handful of boats around all day, the last few yrs before they changed the regs, it looked like a walleye pack of boats down there any day with the pre fishing and all, and it's put a major dent in that population.
Same with the charter boats, 6/7 people at a time bangin on a small pod of smallies can take most of them away from the beds in no time.
If they totally close the season, it would almost have to be done on an honor system, everybodies not honest, but most are, so it would help. JMO


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## twistertail (Apr 10, 2004)

I agree, not really a way to enforce it but for the most part I think people follow the laws. I know Michigan has a closed season on bass, no doubt there are people who go out and target them and keep them but for the most part you dont see people bass fishing till the season opens.


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## exexec (Apr 12, 2004)

I am wondering why some folks want to go 4 rods per person and allow the keepage ( sp?) of one smallmouth?


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

Erie doesn't have a "closed" season on smallmouth. They are just illegal to possess from May 1 - June 23. Other than that...the limit is 5 fish over 14".


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## Master Angler (May 26, 2004)

exexec.. its all about pimping the resource for $$$


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

I can certainly understand why the charter guys are suggesting these changes. I mean after all, business is business. But I've talked with a few captains who say the majority of their paying customers are folks who either 1) couldn't tell a walleye from a smallie, or 2) get so stinking drunk they couldn't care less anyhow. My solution? Promote the sheepshead (aka "silver bass") as a highly prized gamefish and charge them double!!


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

Net said:


> My solution? Promote the sheepshead (aka "silver bass") as a highly prized gamefish and charge them double!!


Net,
That has real merit to it...You might be on to something there.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> You might be on to something there


 i agree


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

Since my idea seems to have merit I'll go one step further. Put a limit on sheepshead. It'll be like that scene from Jaws when all the townspeople take to their boats and rush out to slay the shark.


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## fishon (Apr 20, 2004)

"silver bass"......lol.......... we"ll call em great lake redfish.. and have a sheephead cup.. on ESPN...

...just as good as some clown in august out in Vermillion on the radio asked "what is the limit of strippers... were out here on 20/20 line..nailing 15"+ all day"...LOL


that made my long day better1..thanks for the great laugh


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## Elamenohpee (Nov 17, 2004)

fishon said:


> "silver bass"......lol.......... we"ll call em great lake redfish.. and have a sheephead cup.. on ESPN...


Don't laugh to hard...for years we would stun the farm animals and let the gulls have there way with 'em, 5 years ago, I was a guest on a charter and the captian said "don't do that, they might be our bread-n-butter someday" I hope I never see that day.


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## jshbuckeye (Feb 27, 2005)

pound for pound the sheephead would drown a walleye if they got hooked up andit would depend on the fight in the smallie. I would put my money on the silver bass (lol) I dont care who you are thats funny. when on a fishing trip is it the big fish pot or the big walleye pot.
________
Ship Sale


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## Worm Man (Jan 7, 2006)

Good captains will put you on the fish, whether or not they bite is another story. That is fishing! Four rods per person is insane. If you can't catch your fish with 12-14 rods out than just realize that you are not meant to get your limit for that day. Let's just be real, you are not going to be able to please everybody.


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## rattletraprex (Sep 1, 2005)

Opinions are like aholes everyone has one,so who's to say what is right or wrong?Guess that's why we have these debates which are good.Personally i don't fish for Smallies on Erie but have always released any that I have caught while fishing for other fish.My biggest one was over 6lbs. have pics. of it and hopefully it got larger after it was put back.Don't see what the difference is in how many rods you use.There is still a limit on the fish you can keep and if you can manage more rods what's the difference?Most of the time it's just two of us fishing and with boards out and downriggers and some skills don't see that being that unmanagable.At the end of the day you can only have so many fish and if you are lucky you'll have your limit.Don't get me wrong i don't judge my sucess on the number of fish I have at the end of the day but don't we fish to catch fish?


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## TheKing (Apr 15, 2004)

That's a wild idea - "ZERO" on a scale of 1 to 10. For some reason, it reminds of the joke where the guy is "dynamite" fishing with the game warden.


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## Worm Man (Jan 7, 2006)

If you give people 4 rods than they will want 6, than 8, or whatever it takes to catch a limit. Doesn't seem to define fishing to me. Fishing shouldn't be about limits. Putting a limit on the number of rods makes the sport more challenging. Increase the number of rods and your decreasing that challenge and taking away from the sport in my opinion.


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## B Thomas (Jan 21, 2005)

I dont smallmouth fish- but are they that worth keeping to eat anyhow? As for 4 rods per person, absolutely! As long as I dont keep more than my limits who cares how many rods I use?


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## PatMcD (Feb 28, 2006)

Fishing is as fishing does


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## Papascott (Apr 22, 2004)

I do not bass fish as much as I used to. On my boat there is always one rule, "If its bleeding it goes in the box". This is for legal fish only. We drifted alot of live bait for bass and some would get hooked deep, so bleeders happen and there is no reason to release a fish that is going to die. If kept on ice and cleaned properly they were tasty, not as good as perch or eyes but still good. All healthy fish go back, unless its a boat record, over 7 lbs, that someone is going to mount.

On a side note it amazes me the way a poster with no history can come here and get everyone pantys in a bunch I guess everyone has a bad case of cabin fever right now and I am at the top of the list.

Scott


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## esox (Dec 26, 2004)

The extent to which greed will resort, never ceases to amaze. The fool who wants 4 rods is a good example. A quicker limit? A captain with this sort of 'tude should find another line of work that will produce instead of consuming public resources for personal profit. Same with the 18 inch proposal. If the elimination/fishing down of the smallie trophy fish is what's needed to make a buck, then find another line of work.


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## bobk (Apr 30, 2004)

Come on guys it needs to go to 4 rods. I can see it now........... Honey I'm going to have to buy 4 more line counters and rods the limit went up.
Bob


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## truck (Apr 12, 2004)

Opinions?Well I will give mine.You should be able to use as many rods as you want.You will find out in a big hurry how many is too many.As for keeping fish,well that should be up to the ppl that really knows what they are talking about,not jsut because you think that is the way it should be  Some of ya sound like peta!!!!No one should be able to keep a smallie.How about we change all the rules nobody gets to keep any fish at all.Oh well like I said that is my opinion


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## fishfinder668 (Apr 14, 2004)

It is hard for me to believe some of the things I have read on this post. I guess being a charter captain on Lake Erie is the equivalent of being a thieving, money hording, raping, shortsighted fool. First of all, there are going to be a certain number of smallmouth caught in May and early June because they are in the same area as the walleye. Should they be kept...ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! Customers are the advocates of keeping these, not the captain or crew. That part of the proposal is more based on customer attitude than on what the captains really want. Part of this separation of attitudes has to deal with the fact that many customers get to Lake Erie 1-2 times a year and would like to have a trophy fish to mount. They do not get out 10-15 weekends per year as a boat owner might. Do I agree with their attitude...NO, but I do understand it. Do I want this proposal passed? NO NO NO I like it the way it is!!!!
As far as the criticism for the supporter of the 4 rod proposal, most of it is coming from the guys with 20' and under watercraft. It would be difficult at best to run 12, and sometimes even 8, rods off a boat of that size. Makes me question why it is such a big issue to them. It is unfair judgement to label someone a fool or clown because their opinions vary from yours. The biggest reason for the 4 rod proposal is economically based, but for diferent reason than anyone on here seems to want to acknowledge. The bite is either on , marginal, or off. The fish limits are going to be the same, regardless of the rod limit. When the bill for gasoline comes into play, YES...I would rather get the limit in 3 hours than 4....it makes sense that I save money on fuel. Thus, I can keep the costs down for the customer, thus I have a better chance of booking more trips. The livelihood of a charter captain depends upon catching fish. The more rods I can run, the better my chances are of doing just that. As far as all the concern about my tangles and whatnot, DON'T WORRY...I CAN HANDLE IT!!!!! I constantly read all the criticism of the charter industry on here from private boaters.....I wonder if you are writing those posts as you follow me to the fish out of port in the morning? I hope some of you consider these ideas before blasting me for my attitude....but I have fished on many smaller, private boats and have seen many days when everyone aboard would have liked to put out 1 more rod...even though the limit of rod number was already out. AND THERE ARE MANY WHO TRY TO NEEDLE ME FOR INFORMATION....THEN CRITICIZE MY INDUSTRY. Some criticism is just...if it were directed at individuals and not at a group. I know a lot of captains, and most of them are just as concerned about the lake as anyone else.


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## ezmarc (Apr 6, 2004)

I am a fool! 

Not for agreeing with the 4 rod issue but for reading this tripe in the first place.

Is there a differnece in running 4 rods with 1 lure each than there is fishing with 2 spreaders or 2 rods with 3 ways on them?

People that respond from gut instinct and with slobbering ignorance of whats going on out on the big lake are the fools.


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## bones. (Mar 9, 2005)

I percieve some serious animosity towards the charter industry by some of the posters here... Why? Charter captains do not PIMP the resource for $$$$. Most charter customers are just people who don't own boats. Not a bunch of drunks. WHY insult their customers??? Charter captains played a big role in getting the commercial gill nets bought out. I was there. Charter captains have helped develop many of the tackle and techniques used today by the recreational angler. The charter fishing industry brings HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars to the economy along the lake. Go ask the people of Port Clinton if the captains are a bunch of pimps. Port Clinton would be on poverty row without them. There are many more license sales in this state as a result of the charter fishing industry. This results in more money being put back into the fishery. Charter captains do not make a ton of money they do it because they love it!!!! Another falsehood posted here is that captains in other states are doing well. This just isn't true. The charter industry on Lake Ontario and the state of Michigan has been in decline for years. Captains realistically only have 6 months to ply their trade unlike the warmer climates it is not an easy business. 

Instead of knocking them look what they are asking for intelligently using facts not knee jerk emotion.

The reason there is a two rod rule in Ohio is back in the 1930's people fishing off of piers were using so many rods there wasn't enough room on the pier for other anglers. Not because it threatened the fishery... The law is archaic and should be looked at.

Seems to me extra rods should not be a problem. We have never even come close to reaching our quotas (TAC's) for walleye in Ohio. While the Canadians meet or exceed theirs every year. (If there is a beef with this take it up with the Great Lakes Fish Commision and the biologists who set the quotas.) It would allow charter captains and recreational fisherman to catch their fish sooner, yes resulting in more bookings but also saving on fuel expenses for both. Michigan just increased the rod limit from 2 to 3 on the open waters of Michigan why? Because their fisherman are just pimps? No because they knew it would not make a difference to the fishery the limit is the limit. Many states have rod allowances that are higher than Ohio.

As for the Smallmouth Bass trophy limit the biologists in Ohio have been considering it for over a year now without the charter captains asking for it!!!! Pennsylvania and New York have a trophy limit of one 20" fish per day. I personally think 18" is too small myself. These guys aren't asking for something that isn't already in place on other parts of the lake...

Well thats my .10 cents worth.


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## bones. (Mar 9, 2005)

Since there has been so much activity with this thread 74 posts and 1900 views maybe OGF can post polls for both of these questions... 

1. Should Ohio increase the number of rods on the open waters of Lake Erie? Yes or No.

2. Sould Ohio institute a trophy smallmouth bass limit on Lake Erie? Yes or No.


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## Toolman (Jun 8, 2004)

My OPINION is that Smallies should NOT be kept during the spawn. Further, there should be regs put in place to eliminate "targeting" the species during that time frame. As far as rod limits, there are other states that have 3 rod limits (the most I am aware of) why not 3 (or 4) in Ohio? I doubt that it will affect the yearly catch of walleye more than 1 or 2%. 

Tim Joseph
NPAA #740


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## pakrat (Apr 13, 2004)

My sides are hurting from laughing at this topic. Now my 2 cents worth as for the smallmouth fishing we will let the people we pay (DNR) decide my self I do not target them and if I were a Charter Captin and my clients would like to keep one fish a day over ? who cares how long it is. And that pays the bills.I think I would have a bill for people to sign.

As for the rod limit of 4 or 3 that does not bother me but I think I would have to sign that bill. I fish Lake Michigan for salmon and fish with 3 rods a person and if I get a tangle that is what a good sharp knife is for. I usally fish with 5 people on my boat and lord knows I do not have enough room on my boat to run 15 rods but I have run 14 rods(4 rigger rods,4 dipsey rods,4 lead core on the big boards,2 lead drop rods) and I very seldom have tangles with fish on. And yes I do have time to drink BEER and lots of it. You guys should try running that many rods by your self with your fishing buddys watching it gets my blood flowing when you have 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 20pound fish on at the same time. And if you do not think it can be done then get in the boat(25 foot sportcraft) and I will show you it can be done what a rush. PAKRAT OUT........


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

mark,tim,bones and fishfinder made excellent points plus a lot of sense  
and i can't find anything in there words that i don't agree with.though there's a little(very little) difference of opinion on the smallie issue,the ideas of all of of you would be an acceptable solution in comparison to the past.
thanks for some great input from clear minds


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## Net (Apr 10, 2004)

bones. said:


> ...I percieve some serious animosity towards the charter industry by some of the posters here... Why?...


 Point taken -- and I apologize. Speaking for myself, I was more or less responding to the WAY the original message was presented by "reeltime". The message was poorly worded, poorly presented, and ended up sounding like a whine & cheese party. Perhaps next time they'll recruit someone like yourself to speak on their behalf. You did a good job of convincing me.


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## WLB (Apr 6, 2004)

> Sun. 3/5/2006 we attended the odnr district 3 meeting to purpose two new fishing regulation changes on lake erie.


Does the state post or file these proposals anywhere for
the public to inspect or comment on further?


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

I can remember a few times in the last few seasons where I was out trolling the Huron area,and I was far away from the pack,evidently the fishing in the pack wasn't going so well because once I started hammering fish left and right,I all of a sudden had three charter boats right on MY doorstep.Yes,I'm very sure that some people do follow the charter boats figuring they know where the fish are,and most do I'm sure.However,the charter boats have been known to wander on over to areas where they see or hear someone else is catching fish also,it works both ways.I personally have no animosity towards them,to each his own.Luckily I have my own boat,if I didn't I would fish from the bank before I would pay somebody to take me fishing.As far as the number of rods that should be allowed,I still see nothing wrong with the law as it is now(ancient as it is).I definitely don't consider an 18" smallmouth a trophy fish,and considering that Lake Erie has plenty of walleye and perch for people to catch and eat,I see no reason whatsoever for anybody,at any time to ever keep a smallmouth caught in Lake Erie.We are fortunate that we do have a lot of true sportsmen that regularly fish Erie,and they do respect not only the law,but realize themselves that the bass population is very fragile up there,and they release the bass they catch.


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

I vote for giving the smallie rege a few more years as they presently are before re-evaluating, unless the scientists feem it is warented otherwise. 

On the rod thing, I can't see a big deal, but don't really see where anyone NEEDS more that 2 per person (although you do see it quite a bit!). Charters may like it cuase it cuase they can give a slightly better chance at saving a slow day, or making a quick limit. For the average private boat fishermen with 2 anglers I could see the desire to legaly run 6 to 8 lines. 

Maby a 3 line per angler change would be easier for some to swallow. 

The change I would like to see is a charter boats limit being restricted to paying coustomers, unless the captain or mate is keeping fish for their own consumption. 6 guys taking home a 7 or 8 person limit is just wrong to me.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST CHARTERS, just see this as wrong and against the intent of having a bag limit.


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## fishfinder668 (Apr 14, 2004)

It is ILLEGAL for 6 people to take home 7 or 8 limits from a charter!!!! Anyone doing this is in violation of the law...as is a captain and mate allowing it to happen. A convenient way for the state to revoke a license and make some money.

By the way...I appreciate some of you chiming in to offer some support for the charter industry. It really is not here to "pimp" the resources of Lake Erie. The people who try that do not stay in business long.


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## spinfisher (Sep 23, 2005)

> I see no reason whatsoever for anybody, at any time to ever keep a smallmouth caught in Lake Erie. We are fortunate that we do have a lot of true sportsmen that regularly fish Erie, and they do respect not only the law, but realize themselves that the bass population is very fragile up there, and they release the bass they catch.









​


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

justin said:


> I fell the smallmouth season should be totally closed during the spawning months, not just no keeping bass. If a male bass if caught and pulled off his nest then the nest is open to gobies. The gobies can consume the entire nest of eggs by the time the smallmouth as returned to his nest. Even if the male returns to eggs at his nest, he would not have enough enegry to defend his nest. So, I think no smallmouth fishing during the spawning months.
> justin


Justin,

I'm not questioning your belief in this at all, just wondering what scientific data there is to support this claim. I hear a lot of opinions and passion about this subject but there is little to support or disprove this claim.

They fact is no one really knows for sure what the smallmouth population is or isn't. There are no proven methods to establish repeatable spawn success measurement rates like there are for walleye, The only viable tool is if anglers start catching certain size fish it must have been spawned in a certain year.

This a quote from Fred Snyder, Ohio Sea Grant,

"A recent study found that weather conditions (storms) play a bigger role in smallmouth hatching success than the gobies play. In view of this, keep in mind that since 1997 lake levels have been much lower than before. This can allow storms to have a greater impact on the bottom substrate where nests are found." 

No one is really sure, there are no documented, historical hard facts to come to ANY final conclusions. The study of smallmouth populations and spawn success rates are still very much a work in progress.

I think everyone agrees (even the backyard biologists)however that the change in regulations restricting possession during the typical spawn timing certainly can't hurt the fishery at all.

I have faith in the ODNR to continue to study this fishery and make changes as they see necessary as more and more information becomes available.


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## donkey (Aug 28, 2004)

It does not matter how many rods they let you use.I will still run six 6 when I am 5 miles or more from shore.The smallmouth rule sounds good at one 18 inch or over


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## Tommybouy (Jun 5, 2005)

A regulation allowing a minimum of 4 rods per boat would be something to consider. Each addl' angler my add 1-2 rods legally. The only time I see four rods for one angler being helpful is when Im fine-tuning my program. Once I dial-in to what fish want four may be too much for one angler and end up feeding the fish instead of catching.  Especially when I pull harnesses - tying, rigging, baiting, trolling, netting. *MAN I CANT WAIT TO GO FISHING!!!*
However, Im not going to complain about two rods. canadian water, northern states like Minnesota are allowed only one rod per angler and they are very successful!

I prefer the closed-season for smallmouth. I would prefer a closed-season for walleye too. Again, they close the season for Eye's in northern states too and there are plenty of guides/charters who earn a great living. Catch & Release is emphasized with bigger walleye and all smallies. I say make it easier by letting them spawn w/o human interference!

Great Lakes management is the example for management of all inland lakes. We may see these changes in the future. If they dont change, Im still happy!

Great Posts!


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## Gary Lowry (Mar 19, 2006)

I normally do not do forums but I have to respond to the issue at hand. There should have been a closed season during spawn ten years ago. If it wasn't for charter boats boxing up our beloved smallies we would have never need a closed season. I don't belive smallies will ever be like it was back in the late 80's when catching 20-25 good fish was a slow day. We used to have 50-80 fish days per angler. Now I belive it's a matter of saving our smallies before they are a thing of the past. How can anyone put a knife to a smallie? Not a sportsmen that's for sure. the D.N.R. should make a rule that all charters be catch & release. When I guided on Lake Erie it was catch & release only and would not allow live bait in the boat. I never had a client complain about not keeping smallies. In fact they respected me for it. I no longer guide because I'm to busy and the shop, but also all the places I used to guide on the north shore of Lake Erie are mostly void of smllies. It's sad! I recently proposed a new rule for smallies for the Maumee River from the Providence Dam down river to the Maumee-Perrysburg bridge. A 18'' size limit and a daily bag of one. If my proposal does not pass I will try again. I will start a petion and get all angler groups (bass clubs) to back me. I will make it happen. Lake Erie will never be the same. I don't want the same thing to happen to the Maumee River. It just amazies me that anglers string up smallies.


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

If everybody (not only charter captains) that fishes Erie was as responsible as you,the bass population would still be as good as it was in the mid to late 80's.I couldn't agree with you more,I'll never understand how somebody that considers themselves a sportsman could ever purposely kill a smallmouth,especially one from an environment as fragile as Lake Erie.Hats off to you!


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## zoar (Apr 19, 2004)

What amazes me is how all these expects on the internet know more than the Division of Wildlife on what is best for the smallmouth. I purchase my license every year, I follow the all the rules to the letter, I never keep more fish then I am going to eat, but apparently I am not a sportsman because I have put a knife to a smallmouth. Give me a break!


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

First off,I did work for the ODNR in Fisheries management in Findlay,Ohio.Do I think that qualifies me as an expert on any species of fish? No,it doesn't,and I don't consider myself as such.If you personally don't see anything wrong with killing a bass,so be it.If you consider yourself a sportsman,only you would know.As I said in my post,it's hard for me to believe that with all the other good food fish out there,and readily available for the taking,why would someone want to target bass for the table? If that's your thing,go for it man!


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

I too will eat bass. Nothing different eating them than a walleye.
I laugh at the god-like, cult following pedestal where many people put the bass. Just because the bass freaks and tourny guys freak out when one fillets a bass does not make it irresponsible.
Eating bass is no more irresponsible than eating a walleye or a perch.

Responsible sportsmen and women eat bass too.

Go for it zoar. One break coming up!


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> How can anyone put a knife to a smallie? Not a sportsmen that's for sure


 
that statement might help explain why you don't normally do forums.i guess it would associate you with too many NON-sportsmen,who eat bass  
though i haven't eaten any kind of bass for many years,i have in the past.that is partly due to the fact that i rarely fish for them now because i find eyes and crappies to be as much fun and better tasting.
but i don't begrudge anyone a meal of bass filets if that's their preference.a taste for bass does not make one any less of a "sportsman" than those who stand on their soapbox and preach their "fire and brimstone" c&r sermons to the masses,as if they're going to hell for eating a precious bass,or they are less of a sportsman or person for doing so
if that's the case,the lindner boys,bill dance,babe winkleman,and countless other high profile "NON-sportsmen" will make fine company for the rest of us who would butcher and consume such a revered idol  
when it comes down to it,people(including myself) who abide by the laws,taking only legal fish/limits,and don't waste the resource,are as much a sportsman as you or any other self appointed protector of the almighty bass.
now please excuse me while i go sharpen my knife.


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## boss302 (Jun 24, 2005)

River Walker, YOU SET YOURSELF UP FOR A HAZING!

Come on, how is it unsportsmanlike to keep a legaly harvested fish of ANY species? I usualy won't keep a Smallie, but have on occasion, and ONLY from Lake Erie. The impact of sportfishing on Lake Erie is much less than it is in most other bodies of water. Only once have I kept a river smallie, and it was a spring run Erie fish.

Is is also unsportsmanlike to keep steelhead? A non-native basicaly non-reproducing stocked fish?


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## Hook N Book (Apr 7, 2004)

misfit said:


> now please excuse me while i go sharpen my knife.


Touche`...ROTFLMAO


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

I love bass stuffed flathead filets


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> I love bass stuffed flathead filets


   
stuff the bass with a crappie and you'll have a fish lover's equivalant of "turducken"

"crapasshead"


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## duckman (Sep 18, 2004)

Sorry, but us datr base geeks like to analyze stuff and take the emotion out of the equation. 

I am not able to discern whether this is good or bad. Intuitively, I know the impact would not be positive if the fish are harvested from the nest but I am not sure how significant it would actually be. At the same time I also know from practical experience few people fish with more than two rods even when permitted to use more. 

So help me understand. Show me the numbers!

How do we know? Where is the supporting data that goes with this proposal? Does the ODNR have sufficient data to make a decision? Can they provide a timeline for how long it would take for them to generate the data if they dont? Is it already posted? If so does anyone have the URL or FTP site? What do you do if you do this and it goes badly? Institute a moratorium on bass fishing? 

*PLAN>DO>CHECK>ACT .... *

As a sportsman I will do my part to "write the check" to ensure that our fishing future is a good one. I know that everyone here cares and would do the same... boat or shore... private or charter. A sound analytical decision will benefit us all.


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## Gary Lowry (Mar 19, 2006)

To misfit, you picked your name well. There's nothing wrong with eating bass. In the Western Basin there is a big problem with the bass population. Everyone needs to know this before they are a thing of the past. And yes I belive I do know better then the D.N.R. about our bass problem. And I talk with them quite often on fish matters. I have watch thier numbers drop for the past twenty years. The number of anglers has grown and the smallies have taken a beating. I eat bass. At tournaments we have a bass die once in a while and I will make use of it. But I would never kill a bass to eat it. I have no problem with anglers eating bass although eating bass is old school. If you wet a line and play by the rules your my friend. I just want you to help us save bass in the Western Basin before it's to late. And it's just not the Western Basin, the problem is spreading east to the Central Basin. Don't you want your grand kids to enjoy good fishing. If there was a problem with walleyes, I'd be out trying to save them too. I'm not one to just sit and watch and complain. I get off my rump and do something about it.


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

:I no longer guide because I'm to busy and the shop, but also all the places I used to guide on the north shore of Lake Erie are mostly void of smllies. It's sad! "

I'm not sure what great lake you fish but I haven't had any problem catching good numbers of smallies. Maybe I use a better guide than you do. As for keeping bass, yep I have and yep I will. Me buying my licenses lets me do just that. Do I keep many? Nope not at all, in fact very few. But I have and I will keep bass if I choose to. And as for you knowing more than the ODNR about our fisheries?? That is your opinion only. If your that good why don't you sit down with them and discuss it. I'm sure they would be glad to have your expertese to draw from. Get with the experts and do something, other than put HONEST sportsman down for keeping legal fish. But this is just my own opinion.


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

First,I never said anything about putting a knife to anything.Everybody has their own opinion regarding fishing ethics,what is wrong by one person,may be totally acceptable to someone else.Personally,I could care less what somebody else's stance is on catch and release,I know what mine is,and that's what matters to me.As long as a person is fishing within the guidelines of the law,then so be it.As Dale said,you bought your license,so if you want to keep whatever fish you want then do so.Myself,I don't see any reason whatsoever for me to keep a bass from Lake Erie,considering the sharp decline of the fishery for them on that body of water.For those that missed it again,I said that's my own feeling on it for myself.If anybody wants to keep bass to eat,or for mounting purposes,do it,why should you care what anybody else considers "sporting"? I may not consider something somebody else does as being very sportsman like,but again,that's just my opinion.I don't hold it against anybody that keeps bass from Erie,or anywhere else,I have close friends that keep bass.Why should a person get a "hazing" because of their opinion? I respect others,even if I don't agree with them.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

> To misfit, you picked your name well


 that i did  
and anyone who's spent much time fishing with me,will adamently agree with you


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

Don't let it come down to this,it's been too good of a post to allow it to go south.C&R has always been a hot topic,everybody has their own feelings on it,no reason to bash either side for what they believe.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

where's the "bashing"   
i agree it's been a good discussion,and appreciate and respect the various opinions.


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## River Walker (Apr 7, 2004)

Oh,I don't know,maybe somebody saying it's obvious how you got your handle,because you're not in agreement with them.


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## misfit (Apr 5, 2004)

oh,that bashing,LOL.well if that's as bad as it gets,i think everything will be ok  
personally,i consiered it more a compliment


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## Lewzer (Apr 5, 2004)

> Don't let it come down to this,it's been too good of a post to allow it to go south.C&R has always been a hot topic,everybody has their own feelings on it,no reason to bash either side for what they believe.


I agree with you River Walker.
Personally I don't eat bass from Lake Erie or walleye from Erie either. Both have a funky taste. But bass and walleye from inland lakes are fair game in my book. I don't keep many bass during the year, maybe 5 or 6, and those are around the 15'-18' range for better taste. Same with the walleyes. Smaller is better.

As for Lake Erie, leave the smallie season alone till the results are in. Then tinker with it if results aren't as hoped. There are alot of other factors going on with the lake other than fishing pressure that could be the issue.
With the rods, sometimes 3 or 4 rods would be nice but if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.


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## Tee (Apr 5, 2004)

Lundy said:


> This a quote from Fred Snyder, Ohio Sea Grant,
> 
> "A recent study found that weather conditions (storms) play a bigger role in smallmouth hatching success than the gobies play. In view of this, keep in mind that since 1997 lake levels have been much lower than before. This can allow storms to have a greater impact on the bottom substrate where nests are found."
> 
> ...


I too am a Lake Erie Smallmouth fisherman - C&R Only! I like the regs the way they are. NO Possession. I will leave it up to the experts as I have faith in the ODNR as well. I remember about reading an article about this very topic - Gobies and eating Smallmouth bass eggs. I did some digging and found the article I read. It was in the In-Fisherman Magazine in June-July of 2004. Here is the article:










"Round Gobies an invasive species from Asia, primarily eat mollusks and other invertebrates on the bottom, *not fish eggs and larvae*" 


Interesting article.......


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Gobies make up a large portion of the smallmouth diet, at least during parts of the year. There is some belief among the scientific community that the loss of eggs through nest predation is offset by a availability of a huge food supply and higher survival and growth rate.

This is still very early in an ongoing study, I would expect a lot more information available on this subject during the next few years to come.

A quote from Fred Snyder, Ohio Sea Grant.

On the smallmouth situation, there's a good bit of concensus that the population isn't as strong as it was years ago, but the reasons aren't entirely clear. The gobies likely play a role, but it's a mixed role. They do eat bass eggs in the spring, but juvenile bass feed heavily on gobies in the fall, improving their fitness and survival.


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