# low holed



## Mr X (Oct 17, 2007)

I'm not here to single out any individuals, or try and piss you all off. But, the issue of fishing etiquette is becoming a MAJOR issue on the Mad River. 

I fish the Mad, a lot. I expect to see people on the river, and there's plenty of river for everyone to enjoy.

The last 3 times I've been out (all in the last week), I've been straight up low holed. Not by guys who don't know any better either. Guys with good gear, and TU patches on their vests. This is crapola. And I get the stink eye when I don't return their friendly greeting?

Some simple rules, that no one should EVER have to say, but apparently need stated.

1. The fisherman who gets their first, gets the hole. No Exceptions. Don't ask if you can fish the hole he's about to. If you really want to fish that hole, sit on the bank, out of sight, and wait.

2. Don't Low Hole people!!! If you don't understand the term, it means hopping in the river right below someone and fishing the water he's working his way to. 

I understand the river gets crowded. But there is plenty of water between bridges. If you get in the river, and see someone else in the direction you're fishing, either fish behind him, or pass him by AT LEAST 200-300yds. Like out of sight, so all of the holes you blow up in front of him have time to recover.

If you're too lazy to walk that far, either get there super early and stake out your water near a bridge, or just stay at home.

3. If you arrive at an access, and there are other fishermen gearing up, ask which way they are headed. (up or down) AND GO THE OTHER WAY!!!! Sorry that they beat you to your favorite spot, but they were there first, and you deserve a swift kick to the head for even thinking of racing them down the river.

Yeah, I am a cranky bastard. But I have every right to be. These things are common courtesy, which I abide by, and are regularly ignored by guys who bad words know better.


The next douchebag who low holes me is getting an ear full. Fishing is supposed to be enjoyable, not a sneaky back handed race to get to the only really bad words hole you know about on the river. NEWS FLASH: The entire river fishes well. The best hole on the river is no secret; it's the one without any fishermen. Try and find it and you'll have a good time.

A few more quick things. I expect idiots in canoes and inner tubes to act stupid. But when a guy in a god honest drift boat floats between me and the fish I'm working....??? Really?? You know better. Float behind me, or expect none kind words.

And this is not a rule, just a pet peeve of mine. A friendly greeting is fine. Even a how ya doin? (though the response will always be "not too well"). But DO NOT ask to see my fly box. That's like asking me to drop my pants. There are some things that are just none of your business. Why on earth would I give out my tried and true, hard earned fly patterns to someone I don't know? Would you also like my social security number, and some nude pics of my girlfriend? 

To sum it up: Just because we're both holding fly rods, doesn't mean we're friends. I don't care how you're doing, what fly your using, or really anything else about you. However, I'm not going to interfere in any way with the fishing you're doing or planning on doing. I'll go out of my way to make sure, if we're fishing the same section, to stay out of your hair, and not ruin any water you may want to fish. I expect the same courtesy.

Please take no offense to this post, but it needed to be said. If any of this is new news to you, don't feel like an not a very nice person, just soak it in, and start practicing these courtesies. 

See you on the river,
(hopefully far away)

*edited for the kind world


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

Not sure how to responds to it since it was put up by a pompous idiot who who wants it all. Maybe you should show more respect to ! I really wonder if you do the same thing to irrate others! Make sure you pick up your trash on the way out!!


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## Clayton (Oct 7, 2008)

Wow, I think you're a little toooo stressed out about fishing the mad. Fish it on the week days, sheesh.

Here's my mad procedure, EVERY TIME I GO. And I won't change it for you 
I get there at about 7 a.m. on a saturday. Hike down to the RR bridge, get in the water, walk another ****** in the shallows along the east bank. When I get where I'm going, I turn around, and eat my breakfast standing there while the hole recovers a little from my big blundering butt walking through 

At that point, I start fishing upstream with nymphs and dries. I do this ALL THE WAY TO RT36. It's just how I do it  Sorry if it offends anyone, but I'm really predictable in my habits, and you can definitely tell what direction I'm going. Every time. 

I'm not a hole jumper, but I'm not gonna give you a 300 yard berth on a river that only has 600 yards of public banks. Your expectations are patently ridiculous, in my opinion. Jumping on someone's head or fishing their hole or asking for their box is absolutely asinine, I agree. However, you're asking to feel like you're alone on the mad, when you admit that you aren't. There's no way to feel like you're fishing by yourself except to fish by yourself. I recommend monday mornings; i go out once in a while before class, and things are quite peaceful


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## steelheader007 (Apr 8, 2004)

Mr X you need to start fishing somewhere else its only getting worse. I truly feel your pain, but its not going to change. This would be one reason I dont fish the Mad I dont care if they are pulling out 48" browns out of it!

Take care, and good luck!


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## Clayton (Oct 7, 2008)

steelheader007 said:


> Mr X you need to start fishing somewhere else its only getting worse. I truly feel your pain, but its not going to change. This would be one reason I dont fish the Mad I dont care if they are pulling out 48" browns out of it!
> 
> Take care, and good luck!


I don't understand that attitude. There's a lot of traffic to be sure, but a lot of it doesn't _really_ know what it's doing. The fish on the mad are smart, for sure. They've been taught by lotsa people! But as far as the gear heads and most of the fly fishermen... I've never had much trouble coming in 15 minutes behind a fly fisherman or spincaster who worked the hell out of my favorite hole, and still catching fish

The feeling of solitude is gone, I agree. But since I caught my first trout on the Mad, I've yet to get skunked. I just don't see why it's such a big deal to feel like you're alone. This is ohio for god's sake. There's almost no trout water in it. I'm shocked there aren't 5x more people! I was there yesterday all day... I saw maybe 3 people.

edit: After looking in my report thread and seeing your reply at the same time as this thread went up, I'm pretty sure that you ARE here to single out individuals; me, specifically. I put BACK into the water, after being in it since 7:30, at about 3 in the afternoon and worked my way upstream to the hole in question. You put in whenever and worked your way downstream. 

Does the fact that you're coming down give you more right to a hole than my working upstream? If 2 people fish in opposite directions they're bound to meet somewhere. And I fished about 12 holes from the RR bridge to the spot in question, and I wasn't getting any takes there so I moved to my favorite one. You were still quite a ways up the river. You make it sound like I slid down the bank indiana jones style and dove into the hole, which is NOT the case. I simply fished my way upstream, which is perfectly valid in my mind, and that's where I ended up.

Tell me what I did wrong, exactly?


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## wader (Dec 9, 2004)

While we're ranting about the traffic, the four guys floating in the yellow kayaks and fishing in front of everyone, and floating on top of the good spots, and keeping a stringer of small fish, bad form......

I defense of the traffic, it was one of the first really nice days of the year, and you knew it was going to be packed. Once we floated away from the bridges, we didn't see a soul, and caught some fatties.


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## Clayton (Oct 7, 2008)

wader said:


> While we're ranting about the traffic, the four guys floating in the yellow kayaks and fishing in front of everyone, and floating on top of the good spots, and keeping a stringer of small fish, bad form......
> 
> I defense of the traffic, it was one of the first really nice days of the year, and you knew it was going to be packed. Once we floated away from the bridges, we didn't see a soul, and caught some fatties.


Yep yep. One guy in a canoe kind of disappointed me, drifted through the hole I was standing in (humongous one south of the RR bridge, like chest deep for a long ways) and threw a cast right at the stump I had been casting to. I moved so he could drift through without running my line over, and it disappointed me that he'd so blatantly fish at my fish 

But oh well. Can't go yelling at people, ya know? 

I didn't see the yellow kayak dudes keeping fish, that sucks a lot. IMO, there's no reason to keep a fish from the mad unless it gut hooks itself. Just not enough nice fish to go around if everyone keeps em, you know? Or maybe I'm a hippie


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## fishmerf (Mar 28, 2008)

I fished there for 9 hours yesterday. No issues. I talked with one guy and was never within 100 yards of anyone else. I have been fishing for trout with a fly rod since I was old enough to walk. I was taught to fish a good hatch up stream. The guy below always has the right of way beceause he is working his way up. 
If you want to avoid canoes- fish above Lippincott(spelling?) I have been fishing that river since I moved here 12 years ago. Most of the people I meet have been polite and kind. 
If you dont like the people, ask for permission to fish on some of the private property above West Liberty. I have had good luck up that way and most people I have asked were kind enough to let me fish. There is a ton of water that is rarely fished on that river.

Merf


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## gadabout (Jun 24, 2008)

understand where your coming from mr x. don't you wish we could turn the time back say during the late seventys or early eightys when they first started the brown trout fishery. those were the days. you could fish all day and maybe see a couple fishermen. now we have flyshops, the internet and god knows what sharring information about areas on the river where you and I had to learn on our own. I don't mind helping out the other guy on stream but Im with you when it comes to sharring here on the net. to many people out there to spoil the hardwork that us flyfishers TU and the DNR have done to make this fishery what it is today. and the word respect means nothing anymore not only to the landowners but to the Mad as well. all I want to say before I get off of here is the ones out there who don't give a **** about respecting one another will wake up some day and there won't be a Mad River to fish because the landowners have the right to keep you out.


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## crkwader (Nov 7, 2008)

there are many reasons I dont bother fishing for trout in ohio, unless its my super secret pay me over 3,000$ and ill show you my secret brookie hole. People are jerks. plain and simple. the first time I fished the mad I was in awe. I've never had so many people try and talk to me while I am fishing. walking right up to me. kind of annoying actually. but for the most part I have to agree with MR X.


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## Wild One (Jul 3, 2008)

Couldn't help but reply to this one. First, anyone who replies to Mr.X will not get a response back. The ONLY posts I've seen of his have been of this nature. They're few and far between and are always negative in content. I am glad to see he took down his F-You avatar though...

Regarding the Mad. I'm of the same mind as Tom G.:


> Mr X you need to start fishing somewhere else its only getting worse. I truly feel your pain, but its not going to change. This would be one reason I dont fish the Mad I dont care if they are pulling out 48" browns out of it!


I'm afraid that no matter how much work the Madmen of TU put into it, they're fighting a loosing battle. The popularity of the river is going to continue to grow with this and other fishing boards and reports online. There might be a lot of water to fish, but the number of fish per mile and the number of anglers fishing that open water to those few, scanty fish isn't a promising thought. I wouldn't ever look down at anyone for fishing the Mad or any other water, if that's what they wanted. But, the good news for you guys is that I haven't fished the Mad in over a year and won't waste my time there anymore. That place is just not the quality fishery it's touted to be, IMO. For someone who drives past hundreds of good places to fish on his 1.5hour drive to the Mad--it just isn't worth it for me to combat-cast, shoulder to shoulder with everyone else for the 100 fish-per mile (I'm talking catchable fish over 10 inches) and the maybe one or two 18+ incher per mile fish.

For those who continue to fish Mad. Good luck.


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Mr. X, you would love the stocked streams of WV. Almost no crowds there.


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

TheCream said:


> Mr. X, you would love the stocked streams of WV. Almost no crowds there.


That depends on where you go at the time! If you get there where they just stocked it since all the truck chasers will be there.


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## Clayton (Oct 7, 2008)

Flyfish Dog said:


> That depends on where you go at the time! If you get there where they just stocked it since all the truck chasers will be there.


Yep, and there's times I've been the ONLY ONE on a river that morning, and had a bait guy show up, walk RIGHT up next to me, and start casting to the hole I'm fishing.

I'm talking about a river where 1/2 mile or so is easily accessible. And there he stands shoulder to shoulder with me. Ridiculous.


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## Fishaholic69 (Apr 6, 2007)

haha! no need to come here and give us a lecture on fishing etiquette. if you are upset with someone out on the stream say something to um. that what I would do. if you aren't gonna be as vocal on the stream as you are on the forum then you need to just suck it up and live with it cause you will never get nowhere without speaking up.

PS. if all else fails feel free to jump around in the water and slap the water with your rod and act a fool trying to scare all the fish away. but to warn you ahead of time that don't really work too good.. some guy did it to kruggy and me once. it was hilarious we just laughed at him then proceeded to hook into fish after fish all day while he sat there and pouted like a cry baby!!! classic. lol


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## TheCream (Mar 19, 2009)

Flyfish Dog said:


> That depends on where you go at the time! If you get there where they just stocked it since all the truck chasers will be there.


I know, I was being very sarcastic!


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## kruggy1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Now I see why us fly fisherman are stereotyped to be arrogant a-holes Please wear a sign on your back that says " I'm a jerk dont talk to me and only fish 300 yds away" so I can push you in...LOL. The thing I think we all tend to forget is that ITS A PUBLIC PLACE, something we just have to deal with it. If you know it might be crowded stay home or go during the week thats what I do.


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## Flyfish Dog (Nov 6, 2007)

Clayton said:


> Yep, and there's times I've been the ONLY ONE on a river that morning, and had a bait guy show up, walk RIGHT up next to me, and start casting to the hole I'm fishing.
> 
> I'm talking about a river where 1/2 mile or so is easily accessible. And there he stands shoulder to shoulder with me. Ridiculous.



Yes I know what ya mean but I will know better to fish that sections since its usually not better til you walk at least 1 mile or so if possible. If this meathead really brazen then I will put a shot into the water and smile and walk to another hole!


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