# HUGE waste of fish



## Gobi Muncher (May 27, 2004)

There is a pond that I fish at the intersection of Rt. 42 and I-70 (exit 79) and when I arrived there yesterday the construction crew (Kokosing) is filling it in with their debris. So far, they have filled about a quarter of it in starting on the shallow end and working deep. Talked with a couple people and one is an ODOT inspector and he confirmed that they are indeed filling it in. A church owns the land, leases it to the farmers (which is how I got the permission), and the church is getting a nice paycheck from the construction co. (once again the almighty dollar prevails)! This pond (between 3-4 acres and up to 21' deep) has been there ever since the overpass for Rte 42 to go over I-70 has been built. The place is loaded with fish and had been my "go to" spot for several years. I also have loaded about 300-400 crappie in it that were around the 9"-10" mark for the past 4 years. Wasn't nothing to go there for and hour or so and end up with 1/2 bucket of nice gils for a fry. Have caught several Bass in the 5lb range. 
I imagine the $$$ the church is getting doesn't come close to the amount Kokosing is saving on hauling, storing, fuel, etc. to ship all this debris somewhere other than here. Just sucks that all the fish, turtles, frogs, and such are gonna go to waste (but it probably happens all over the state). I expect them to have it filled or at least unfishable by the end of January. Right now there is about 7" of ice wherever they havent crushed it up. Don't know if I can swing it or not (not at least until mid Jan), but I would like to have a day where about 50 of us get there and try to clean it out. Don't know how the farmer would feel about having that many vehicles back there parking all over the field. There is about a 1.5-2 mile drive back to it and right now you need 4x4. If there is a big melt....forget it. Anyway, IF (A BIG IF), I can swing the "clean out session" I will let all know! Thanks for the ranting, but this doesn't even come close to the poor fellows that get around me after 12 beers or so  !!


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## zpyles_00 (Dec 15, 2004)

Aren't there wetland protection laws against what they are doing ? I was under the impression that if water has been standing for 5+ years that it is considered a wetland and it is against the law to "fill" it. The area has to stand "Dry" for a certain ammount of years before it can be transformed into another use. Might be something to look into if you had the time and wanted to tork some people off lol. 
Hate to hear of another peice of mother natures wildlife getting ruined over money. Thats one of the many reasons I dont go to church, nothing but hipacrits, politics and money. The religion is just a cover anymore. 
Good luck in your fishing there while it last anyhow.


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## M.Magis (Apr 5, 2004)

A private pond is just that, a private pond. It's likely doing the church no benefit as it is, but having it filled will provide some income. We don't have to like it, but they pay the taxes on it, not us.


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## mojo (Apr 12, 2004)

as far as i understand the wetland laws, they can remove it but they have to build new wetlands somewhere else that are a certain percentage larger than what they ruined. Sounds like its ok but their idea of a wetland can include a hole dug in the ground that fills with water periodically. They don't have to be functioning or fish/wildlife friendly.


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## snake69 (Sep 26, 2005)

Check with your local politician, representative,senator...whatever. *Sometimes*, they can be a big help! It's worth a shot!


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## wave warrior (Oct 2, 2005)

M.Magis said:


> A private pond is just that, a private pond. It's likely doing the church no benefit as it is, but having it filled will provide some income. We don't have to like it, but they pay the taxes on it, not us.


u r [email protected]#@$ us...RIGHT!!


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## sowbelly101 (Apr 5, 2004)

gobi, 

i imagine i can get some help rounded up on this one..

let us know
sow


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## birdhunt (Apr 12, 2004)

Why don't you go to the ODNR site and get an address to get an email off to. Maybe that will get something started, at least you can vent to them. I always have good luck getting answers to questions from that site...........worth a try, who knows, maybe someone there can get the dumping shut down............at least they will know about it. I wouldn't think it would be legal to fill it in, but money talks!!


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## Gobi Muncher (May 27, 2004)

Thanks for the replies. I am going to call the DNR this morning. Don't know if there is enough time to do any good, but maybe other "actions" can be taken. It seems at the rate they are taking up the road, I expect the pond to be filled or unfishable due to broken ice around or not far after mid-Jan. 
Hopefully, they will all be taking time off during the holidays. 


Sowbelly, 
I will let you know if we can get a trip together. I am muzzleloading next week and with the holiday weekends, it will probably have to be after the New Year. I don't know if I can get the 50 people back there, but we might be able to set something up for those closer to London. I was even thinking of parking some trucks over at the one of the truck stops at Rt. 42 and only taking a couple of trucks from there. I can get 5 others in mine and a friend has a cap on his truck so we can pack some in there too. I will see what I can do. 

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!!!!!!!!!


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## truck (Apr 12, 2004)

Guys I don't like to see ponds get filled in either  But I can tell you this,if someone stopped me from doing it if it were mine,you can bet no one would ever hunt or fish my land or pond again!!!You all may want to think about that,it might bite you in the butt later


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

The ODNR has no oversight over a private pond.

I assure you that Kokosing is not dumping illegally either. In fact they are not dumping at all. I'm sure the church wants something done with their PRIVATE property and contracted (is paying) with Kokosing to fill the pond in.

People need to careful complaining about a what a private land owner does with HIS property. It is his, that's why it's call PRIVATE. It is a shame that you are loosing your favorite fishing spot, but you don't OWN the land, you are a guest of the owners. Would you want a guest in your home telling you what you should or should not do with YOUR home?


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## Gobi Muncher (May 27, 2004)

Lundy,
When did I EVER mention "illegal dumping" or that it was MY PROPERTY? I am sorry, I guess that I should have said that the company is using their DUMP TRUCKS to DEPOSIT broken pieces of I-70 into the pond (would that have been better?) I NEVER ONCE said that it was MY Property or that the church couldn't do whatever they wanted to with THEIR pond. I just said that it sucks that a nice pond like that is getting FILLED IN. I also was going to try and get some of the OGF'ers out there and maybe harvest some of the fish before they are burried. Heck, I would have liked them to do it in the summer so that I coud have went out with a cast net to maybe give the fish new homes in some of the other PRIVATE ponds that I EVIDENTLY think I OWN 
I never will know and don't care what the truth is and I know that no matter what I do the pond is toast. Maybe I should have called for a "Sit-In" and taken it out on KOKOSING for doing this to me (I am a little more realistic than that). I know friends with KOKOSING, ODOT and I am friends with the farmer. I DO know that the church is getting some $$ and the farmer will be gaining a few acres for crops. Oh well, what is wrong with a person "ranting" a little? 
I am not expecting the DNR to do anythig!!!! Heck, even if it were able to be stopped, it probably wouldn't be worth fishing with all the asphalt and such leaching out into the water.
It happens everywhere on a daily basis and more than likely there has been someplace that either you or a friend hunt/fish that has fallen to some sort of development or similar demise. It is no different that someone losing their favorite woods to building malls or housing developments, and I am sure that they may post here of their misfortune. I would "feel" with them, but not try to make an A$$ out of them. I suggest you print off the post and read as you type your reply to keep from putting words in one's mouth!!!!


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Gobi Muncher,

I don't think I addressed you directly in my post, I think it was a general post to anyone who may have posted in this thread. I never said that you said or implied anything.

It was directed to many who posted suggesting you call the DNR, which you said you were going to do, and maybe you should call someone in government and wetlands restoration requirements. Someone suggest local authorities should be contacted about the "dumping"

I understand your concern about losing your fishing spot, I understand that, but the entire thread turned form "venting" to trying to find a way to prevent a private landowner from doing what they will with their property, why else would you call the DNR???

There is nothing wrong in my mind with venting about the loss of a fishing spot, hunting spot, girl friend, pickup truck, whatever. I only expressed an OPINION when it went from "venting" to an effort to suppress a landowners rights.

If you feel this was a personal attack on you I apologize, that was not the intent. I was merely expressing my opinion based upon all of the cumulative posts on this subject.


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## SwollenGoat (Apr 13, 2005)

Man, that sucks! Keep us posted, I'm in if you get something arranged.


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## chuckie (Nov 12, 2004)

The Army Corp of Engineers controls all "wetland" dumping, filling, or any other wetland useage. Contact them and see if this filling is legal-they need a near impossible to get permit to do it if it is, in fact, considered a "wetlands"! There could be a "protected species" of frog or salamander in there that if it looses it's habitat, the whole world might shift it's axis! Having been on the fringe of one of their (negative)decisions, I can tell you, they have tremendous POWER!


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## birdhunt (Apr 12, 2004)

goog luck gobi, keep us informed...............


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

The Corps does have jurisdiction over "navigable inland waterways" which apparently (to them) includes every puddle of water over 4 inches deep, under section 404 of the Clean Water Act. This includes privately owned wetlands.

However, the permits are no longer as hard to get as they were a few years back and wetland trading (mitigation banking) is allowed. The filler/dumper/whatever can buy into a system where they pay for a portion of a massive wetland restoration or creation project at a % that is the same as the amount of wetland they will be destroying. No net loss is the rationale, however, it almost completely ignores the value of the wetland to the immediate locale.

Overall, I would bet they (Kokosing) has their ducks (pun intended) in a row and have their permit (if it is even necessary). Besides, like someone mentioned, if the farmer is getting some coin, it is doubtful he will be very amenable to you fishing there if the project is stopped because of some fishermen getting the USACE involved.


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## Whaler (Nov 16, 2004)

I know a guy who runs his own excavating company. Several years ago he bought some land and put up a good sized pole building to store some of his equipment. There was some low wet areas on this property and he cleaned them up and filled them in . Somehow the EPA found out about it and investigated. They told him he wasn't allowed to destroy a wet land. They made him put it back like it was. He had to get a guy from the University of Akron to draw up plans on how it was to be done. That cost him $1500.00 . Then once he started he had to replace all the weeds or brush with the same type that had been growing there. He couldn't just let it grow up naturally , he had to actually buy the plants and or seeds and replant. He did it all or else face the wrath of our wonderful government.


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## Onion (Apr 10, 2004)

So true Whaler.

Often the plants that have to be replaced are plants that were not actually growing there but the plants that would have been growing there had it been natural.

In other words, they force a guy who filled in a drainage ditch that was covered with cattails to build a swamp with cattails, and bulrushes etc. In the same place no less.

I am all for 90% of environmental regulation (that is why I have a job ) but the wetlands regs are a good example of seriously overzealous enforcement in many cases.


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## STUMPY (Apr 14, 2004)

Go get the Army, Gobimuncher! This is gettin pretty good! Keep us posted for sure!


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## JV1 (Apr 18, 2004)

Its private property and the owner can fill the pond in unfortunatly. But the good news is you can still join greenpeace !#


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## shadowman (Apr 10, 2004)

it may not be the right thing to do ( filling it in ) but after all it is private property and as long as everything is legal than you just have to sit back and take it.........it may be a bitter pill to swallow but thats the way it is, i,m sure if it wasn,t allowed there would be some group out there raising cane and would have put a stop to it by now, your right about one thing it would have been nice to be able to relocate the fish instead of just killing them, have you tried asking them to postpone things and give you a chance to get some of the fish out? i,m not sure if its to late but it may be an option............ :S


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## Gobi Muncher (May 27, 2004)

Well guys, they have it about half full now. For some reason the melt has slowed them down. Maybe the ice made it easier to get the debris closer to the other side (they can only push it in from one direction). I did get out for a couple ice fishing trips (at night) and filled a few bags for the freezer. Now I have been going out on the boat with this crazy winter we're having.  This is awsome, running the boat in January!!!! Although, I went there the other day and they now have signs posted stating "Danger", "No Trespassing", and "No Ice Fishing", also ran into one of the guys I know working on the project and he says that all the const. guys are planning on trying to try and clean out the fish after they get them all bunched up in the last bit of water. Hopefully, they hammer the snot out of 'em and fill a lot of buckets!!!!! At least some of them won't be burried. Sorry I couldn't get a group out there before all the signs went up. Back to knockin' on doors for permission to other places.
Good luck to all.


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