# Pandora's Box?



## TIGGER

Hey everyone. Well I may have just opened my own little Pandora's Box! On some of the world wide tackle making sites I have noticed some people that play around with casting resins and foam for making their lures. From day #1 I have always been very interested in this process. 


I was in the Hobby store this weekend and stumbled across this Pandora's Box! 













I don't have any experience in this type of luremaking. I have some friends that have helped me with my questions from TU. (Mr. Husky). Well I guess we can learn together on this one. It may be fun or it will be a crash and burn. Time will tell. LOL

This little kit seemed to have the basics to get me started. I know with the lures there are many factors that get involved with the resins. Most resins SINK! This can be bad for floating type of lures. I have found out that there are foams that can work that will float and still be hard. 

Believe me..........I am no expert on this. Completely new on this one. I believe some of the guys that visit here may have experimented with this in the past and may help us out on our little adventure.

Well here we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first step in the whole process is to find a body shape or lure you want to duplicate. I made this little fat shad body that I think will work very well on the musky lakes in Ohio. As Vc knows, You can make a lure and run it 10 feet and loose it on a stump or rock. I was hoping I can make the lures fast and try different colors without the fear of loosing the bait that I spent a week making. I found out that last year I was more afraid to loose a bait then catch a fish at times. I relate it to jig fishing for me. If you are not loosing jigs your not where the fish are. LOL


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## TIGGER

Well one of the first steps is to make the body you want to duplicate. Get it as close to perfect as possible. There many woods to use. I used cherry on this one. I wish I had used balsa. It sands easier!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

After you are happy with it you can start the process as described in the manual supplied in the kit. 

There are 2-piece and one piece molds in am finding out. I am going to try a 2 piece for this one. When creating a mold you use silcone as the form. It is in a liquid form with a catalyst. For the 2 piece you set one half of the lure in clay that is provided. I am going to use a pvc tube that I cut in half as the hard outer shell untill the mold is set in the process.











You put the shell with the half form together and stand it up on a piece of wood. Wrap clay around the bottom and up the seams to keep the liquid silicone from leaking out. I found this out the hard way! LOL















The next step is to mix the silicone as per instructions and pour into the mold to the top.












It takes around 24 hours to set. Tonight I split the mold apart so I can do the other side. I had some extra liquid left after the pour. I took some of the glass eyes I had and made a form with them. I may try resin eyes in the future and now I have a mold of them.


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## TIGGER

Well I removed all the clay and put what they call a release agent on the first pour side. This prevents the second pour from sticking the to first one. The release agent is brushed on and let to dry. 

I set the pour up the same as the first. I went and poured it and will have to wait until tomorrow to find out what happened. 










To be continued!!!!!!!!!!


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## vc1111

I can't tell you how cool I think this is!


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## goolies

Neat stuff John. I think you should mass produce your Tony the Tiger walleye lure! LOL.


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## eyesman_01

I too have a high interest in this. I'd seen something similar on another site, and it peaked my interest. I'm patiently watching, John. Curious to see how this turns out, and whether or not I can find this kit around my area.


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## rjbass

Tigger,

I always wanted to try this and even got alot of info from Husky at one time, but never pulled the trigger. I am glad you jumped in and can give us all some pointers. You may have seen Musky Dan's baits from TU??? He makes some real great trolling baits and they are all made from molds and foam of some type. He sent me one and they are pretty much indestructable baits.

Rod


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## hazmail

Tigger - I am all eyes (sorry eyes), great tutorial and pics so far- I'm curious as to what you cast into the mould. I did 3 years as a moulding apprentice so moulding anything really intrests me. Looking forward to seeing how the mould turns out. Go for it .pete


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## walleyevision

Good luck. I hope it works out. You are right about the pandoras box title. So many more possibilities!


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## TIGGER

Well I was afraid of this. This whole thing is very very addictive! My favorite part of making a lure is the first one. I get bored fast with multiple ones. This may solve the problem for a little while! LOL 

I got home and ran into the basement before I started dinner. I pulled the mold apart and was very pleased how it came out!











I removed any clay that was left behind and cleaned up any spillage of silicone that ran out. I decided to give it a go with a pour! 

The resin that came in the kit is really not the right stuff for a lure I think. I works if you want a sinking type of lure. Anyhow it gave me some practice at least. The resin is a 1:1 ratio mix. It has a short pot life of only about 3 minutes max. I set the mold back together and inserted some screw eyes in the mold before closing it up. They say to wipe the mold with rubbing alcohol on the inside and to warm the mold up a bit to make sure the resin sets. The alcohol keeps the resin from sticking and makes the silicone last longer. The resin sets with the heat that is created with the chemical reaction of the two parts. I mixed up the stuff and let it rip!!!!!!!! 










You can see that I added a hole in the top of the mold. It is on the back of the bait and allows the air to flow out naturally with the pour. It set in about 3 to 5 minutes! You can see as it sets it turns a creamish color. When the resin is mixed at first it is a motor oil color. It gets a bit warm. around 200 degrees for a short time. Well the anticipation was killing me!!!!!!!!! I decided to open it. Wow was I happy!











You can see that after you open it there is some finning at the seams and the pour cork at the top. This cleans very easy and is done in less than 2 minutes. A razor blade did most of the trick and a little electric palm sanding and it was done. I did 4 bodies in less than a half hour. I even did a couple of eyes off that mold from the first pour.










I can cut a lip slot and epoxy it in. I tried some with a nose tie and the other two I will do a line tie on the lip.

The next thing is to try an expandable type of foam that floats. I will look around the web on some leads I got. I will see what I can find. 

I will try some lips out and have some pics soon!


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## vc1111

> I did 4 bodies in less than a half hour.


Hey, hey, HEY! That's cheatin'!!!

(And I can't wait to try it!    )

Couldn't you make a mold with the lip slot in it already, John?

That is really cool how you can mold the screw eyes right into the bait!


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## fugarwi7

Very cool  ...you cranked out 4 and all I got done is added some weights, sanded and sealed one bait...but only my first proto type attempt so going very slowly...even so, 4 baits in a half hour   ...as tempting as it is to try another method, I must stick to my plan and build the old fashioned way...you are raising the bar again...those baits look like they are ready to paint once you flash and fine sand...can't wait to see how they finish off. Good Job!!


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## rjbass

Tigger,

Was that a kit you bought on line or in a hobby shop? I think you sold me on at least giving it a try....

Rod


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## TIGGER

It is amazing the things that could be done with this stuff. 

This resin sands like wood. It sinks like rock 

Vince I guess you could have a lip slot also. It would be neat if the resin bonds good to the lip. You may be able to pour and have the lip cast with it at the same time. The way I did it I thought I could cut many different angles to the lip and even turn it into a glider also.

Rod, I bought this kit a Hobby Town USA. It cost $70. They did have a mini kit also. I think it was $40ish. You may be able to buy direct from the Company. They are located up your way in Michigan. Here is a link to the Company

http://www.alumilite.com/


They also have a supplier link on the site to help find a local vendor. 

Well off to play with the stuff. I want to try some things out tonight!  

Cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You may be right. 


Hey some great news!!!!!!!!! Husky is going to join us here. He has an incredible knowledge of this stuff. We will learn alot!!!!!!!!! I can't wait!!!!!!!


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## luredaddy

This is on a par with Bob Dylan plugging into an amplifier in 1965!!!!! Say it ain't so!!!!! I will always cherish your WOOD Musky baits! They will have to pry them from my clenched fists!! You know I am only serious, John!!!!!!
You could make baits out of recycled diapers, and they would be great!!
John


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## vc1111

Don't worry, luredaddy, he'll be whittling timber again soon. Its in his blood!


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## TIGGER

I know. It isn't the same. Nothing like the wood. I wanted to do something different mostly for the walleye baits and a couple styles for banging on the rocks. I needed a change...............don't forget I live in a log cabin! Wood everywhere!!!!!!!!! The cedar chips will be flying soon!


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## bigjohn513

John one question for you...did you wire the eyelets to each other for strength or is the resin going to hold the eyelets ok?


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## TIGGER

They are thread screw eyes in there. I tested how well they held by hanging from the the rafter and my body weight. It held. The stainless eye started to bend first. I did also try to back the screw out. It does. It is like a machined and threaded hole. 

Tonight I am going to play with a simple wire rigging with everything connected. I will make a little wire form and bend the rig. I am making a little walleye bait that I hope to get my first pour also tonight.

I played around with some things late last night. Some failures. I have picks to share. One hint. I tried to have a wood plug in the center of the pour to lighten it up a bit. Not a good thing! LOL

I also was playing around with some Bondo to help with the mold. 

I'll post some things later.

John


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## vc1111

Keep it coming, John. This is really fun stuff to read about. So many possibilities.


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## goolies

John - Can you embed something like this in the mold? I used the bottom figure in a wood body with wire pins inserted through the side and through the loops. Because the body was wood I embedded the whole thing in Devcon 2T. I put 100 lbs on it and it did not pull out.


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## TIGGER

Andy that is a neat idea with the holding tie. I may have to tinker with those!

The good,bad and ugly!

Well I thought about the problem of the sinking resin, I had this brilliant idea of inserting a wood center plug and casting the resin around it. I thought it would be a good idea!













The bad! I think I threw everything together to fast. I should have heated the mold up. I may have been to cold. Plus I think I didn't let it set long enough.

The ugly!!!!!!!!!!! Parts of the body didn't set like it should have do the core of the body may not have been hot enough to set the chemical reaction. Leason learned. It did float though! LOL


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## TIGGER

Well my supply of silicone was very low from the kit that I had. I thought of a way that I could try to get at least one more mold from it. I decided to try bondo and silicone combination.

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll........ I got myself into a little pickle with it. I learned alot from it that may help us in the long run. I poured a bed of the bondo and left a bit of a void for the silicone and the bait. I pour the remaining silicone that I had and build a dam around the bait to cover it. I thought the next day I could razor to the edge of the wood bait and slap a bondo bed over the top of it and split the mold. Not the best thing to do.











I got it to work after I cleaned it up a bit but............. The seal of the two halves is not the best. I had to take "c" clamps and squeze the @#$%^& out of it! The first pour I did 1/2 of the resin drained into the adjacent unfilled bondo pockets. The second pour went better. Here is a shot of the screw eyes in the mold











The second pour came out great!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here is a pic of the bait that I did well on for the night walleyes this fall. Of coarse it sinks now but I know Mr Husky is coming to save the day with his great knowledge of the casting resins and getting them to float!!!!!!!!!












I told you we would learn together! LOL


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## goolies

I like your idea of inserting a wood center plug. The mass of the wood might have affected the setting temperature.

What if instead of poring resin after inserting the wood center plug, you pour mold material and make a new hollow core mold. Is that possible? You may have to add some support pins to suspend the inner core, but it might work.

I just realized you would need to mold the hollow lure body in 2 halves and glue it together. Probably not practical.


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## TIGGER

Well Andy I tried a lesser version of your wire loops. They worked great. I had some stainless wire left over from snip-offs from other bends. I tried them and they worked great.






















I thought this may happen with the silicone and the bondo. Since it is moldmaking silicone It may not stick to the bondo. My thoughts were right. It let loose from the bondo. The previous pour went bad with leaking. I knew something was up. It pulled away.

Butt................... I have ordered some more silicone. It will bond to itself. I think I can take the shell and modify it better and create a channel for them to interlock. I will pull the other side off and join them in a new mold.











Here are some links to silicone molding materials for you spec guys.

http://www.hobbysilicone.com/


http://www.freemansupply.com/moldmaking.htm


http://www.hobbycast.net/siliconerubber.htm


Enough for tonight. I have to watch the Pittsburgh game to see if my Brownies have a shot to win the AFC outright!


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## fugarwi7

John, Your innovative thinking is impressive...you seem to be two steps ahead of the game, even though your results haven't produced a perfect winner...I think your getting close though...I was thinking if you could make a smaller version of your mold and make a injected foam (window and door insulation spray foam) inner core, then set that inside your mould and pour your resin, you might achieve your bouyancy and get a better reaction with the resin (rather than your wood core)...It would be much lighter and more bouyant...I don't have a clue what I'm talking about...I am just trying to spark the think tank a little...keep it going though...certainly intriguing.


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## vc1111

John, I'm trying to figure out how your going to cut the lip slot square after you make the baits. That's why I was asking about incorporating a lip slot into the original mold.


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## TIGGER

Fugarwi, I thought of giving that a try. Maybe this weekend I'll give it run. I did find out a bit more of the track that is taken with the floating of the bait. The key is what they call Microballoons. These are mixed with the resin to assist with it floating. 
Expandable foam in the industrial grade is the other option, This can open some other doors to problems with its expansion. This can distort your
mold based on the hardness of the silicone ........to resist the force of the expansion rate.

Vince, the lips. The stuff cuts like wood. I was going to cut the lips in the baits like we always do and epoxy them in. The only problem is that is completely compound curves. I will have to make a vise or clamping system to do it. 
I guess you could have the lip slot in there. The expandable foam may send it haywire. I was hoping that I could use the body with the line tie in the bill of the lip or in the nose. The screw eyes thread right into the material for that option. I could also play with the different lip style and angles as I feel.


Part of this whole madness is make a bunch of bodies easy. We had talked about some time this winter season having a gathering of people interested in the luremaking from OGFers. I would sure be easy to make up a little kit with the different parts for the people to take home and finish the body of the bait as they want. A person could choose a musky bait or a bass/walleye bait. Or both! There would be no worries that they have no woodworking tools. Everything is included and ready to go. Just some paint and assembly. I may even paint some bodies also.


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## rjbass

Tigger,

Here is the stuff I am going to try. It is lighter than the foam and it does float, about like cedar. I know a couple of Musky guys who are using it now and they swear by it.... It's about $20 a pint $64 a gallon...That eliminates the micro balloons.

http://www.smooth-on.com/Update&#37;208-02/Feather Lite.htm


Rod


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## vc1111

John, what I was wondering was if you couldn't imbed a wooden bait into the clay with the lip slot cut into it already. You'd have to get the clay into the lip slot, but I think that wouldn't be that hard. Then the mold would have the lip slot already, right?


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## TIGGER

Vince I think that could work. I will be carting this stuff over your house soon. We will have some fun! LOL

Rod I saw that stuff on a TU thread. I noticed that Musky Dan uses it. I know you said that Dan had sent you a bait. It floats nice? That could be alot easier.


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## bigjohn513

If you guys are going to have a lure making get together I'm going to have to start saving some wood for you all....I work in a custom wood shop and we use a lot of cherry, popular and maple and most pieces plenty big for lures are scrap to us


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## TIGGER

Hey Everyone, Husky is a new member to be....... he sent me this email to cut and paste on this thread. He is just waiting to be activated. A Great guy.


Some Tips On Making Molds and Casting Resins Lures.



First you need a model. I only mold lures I designed myself. I use Balsa wood to make the models. For symmetry sake, I use 2 pieces of the same thickness Balsa, one side painted black, glued together, the black side being glued. That will give you a constant, viewable center line as you shape the model.












Once the Model is complete, I seal it with Devon Two Ton Epoxy, to assure a smooth, hard surface.



I make my molds a bit differently than most. I begin with a piece of Balsa, the same thickness as the size I used to make the model. Then I trace the model's outline onto it. Next, I'll cut out the profile and put a coat or two of Epoxy to make it smooth.

Now I'll place the model into the opening. It should fit snuggly. Press the Eyes and ties into the wood so they're &#189; way into the soft wood. Next, Fill the in the small voids around the model with modeling clay. I put locator holes for two flat head nails. The nails will guarantee both halves of the mold will align perfectly. Cut them so that the heads will be covered by the silicone. In addition, I put a few &#189; round locator keys (not shown) to add a little more stability when joining the halves. Molds for Larger lures require the added stability. You can glue any appropriately size &#189; round objects to the wood for this, process. 

I put bent brads where the eyes and ties will go to aid in the location of the harnesses when casting the lure














I build a box around the model from Leggos and secure it to the board with a bead of clay.














Pour the 1st half. I prefer the hardest silicone I can get. A 28 shore is the minimum I will use. Hobbysilcone.com sells 10 lb lots at a very reasonable price.



After it cures fully, remove the wood base, lightly coat the model and silicone with warmed Vaseline. Be sure you totally cover both. Build the box higher to accomodate the next half, and pour the silicone.



Part the two haves and the mold is finished.



You can cast lip slots onto the mold but I use a few different angles fot lips on this lure

So I bypassed that process. It will save you a ton of time and assure perfect lip placement

if you diligently cut the slot into the model. Just remember to build up the side of the slot that is in the wood, up to the half way mark with clay, when pouring the first half.



To cast the lures.



Use Urethane resin with Micro Balloons to adjust the desired buoyancy. 



Here's some sources and info for casting Urethane Resin.







TU lost all pictures, but the Freeman site is the best for what you're looking for. http://www.freemansupply.com/moldmaking.htm
You'll want to make a 2 part Silicone mold.

Michael @ Hobbysilicone is great. You can get most supplies from him. His Prices for Silicone in 10 lb Tubs is VG. http://www.hobbysilicone.com/

or Call theses guys for Urethane Resin. Tell them exactly what you want to do. Very reasonable and helpful. The will stagger you with info.
http://www.dascarplastics.com/

Get your 3M glass micros here.
http://www.shopmaninc.com/fillers.html 

Originally Posted by Coley
Micro Balloon Formula for Urethane Resin (Alumilite is a UR)
Here it is;
First of all let me say this about Alumilite.(A Urethane Resin) It is really great stuff for
making bass crankbaits. It comes in part A and part B. It has no
fillers, until you add one. The mix ratio is 1:1 by volume or weight.
I use weight for the resin and volume for the filler, in this case
Microballons. Using no filler the bait will sink, using 50&#37; filler the
bait will suspend and 100% filler the bait will float.
What I do is this. 
I pour some part A into a clean half-pint jar (at this point it doesn't matter how much)
I pour some part B into a clean half-pint jar (at this point it doesn't matter how much)
lets say both jars are 1/2 full. Add 1/4 pint Microballons to both jars. This will give
you a 100% mix. Then using a scale I weigh out equal parts of A & B, mix and pour
into mold. You need to mix the Microballons into each part, before mixing
them together. You only have 2 1/2 to 3 minutes to pour after part A & B get
together.



I prefer casting my harnesses into the lure. I use .045 SS welders wire for small lures and .0625 for larger lures. A round nose plier is indispensable for shaping the wire. With a little practice, you'll be knocking out harnesses in a couple of minutes. As UR sets in minutes I accelerate the pour by filling one side of the mold before I put the mold together, then fill the rest of the way through the gate. As quickly as the UR sets, I just hold the mold snuggly in my hands until it sets.

























I dip my lures in a Propionate mix to get a smooth base to put a finish on.












A nearly finished lure;












Husky, (Mike P)



__________________
Hammer Mechanic, 1st Class.
"Too soon old, Too late smart.".


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## vc1111

Hey, Mike! Welcome aboard. It took a minute or two to figure out whether that was Tigger posting or you. I was about to accuse John of ripping off Carly's Legos! 

Great tutorial.

Guys, Mike is a great innovator, and he's the guy who taught me how to foil!

I'm reading this thread carefully. I have some stuff I'd wouldn't mind trying with this molding/foam/resin stuff.


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## TIGGER

Vince thats pretty funny. LOL Actually we are on our way out to go grab some lego's and some gifts for momma.

BigJohn, that sounds good about the wood!


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## Big Daddy

Husky, I'm working on getting you "activated". Did you respond to your email??? 

We'll get you on here... TIGGER's orders! LOL!


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## bigjohn513

tigger, ask vc1111 about about the care package I sent him...lol some real pretty cherry 1 1/4 thick, the problem is the shipping cost...but when I come and see you all I'll bring a trunk load


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## Husky

Big Daddy said:


> Husky, I'm working on getting you "activated". Did you respond to your email???
> 
> We'll get you on here... TIGGER's orders! LOL!


HI Big, et al. My Gmail account shot the confirm to the Spam folder. 
I'm good to go now, Thanks!


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## Big Daddy

Glad you made it on-board! Welcome!


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## vc1111

Mike, I don't know if John told you, but I'm Fatfingers. 

I'm really glad you jumped aboard. Its going to really make things fun.


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## Husky

Big Daddy said:


> Glad you made it on-board! Welcome!


"Take a kid fishing. Pass it on"

I did! They wound up pilfering all my Tackle!!


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## Husky

You get what you pay for. NOTHING works as well as RTV silicone.

There are ways to "Extend" costly RTV to make it more economical. One is to buy 100% silicone from Walmart (In the paint section). A 10 oz tube only costs $2.50. You an use it to fill in the mold box *after you've used the RTV to cover the model.* Once the model is covered, *All the rest is filler.* I will squeeze strips on wax paper and let them cure. You can do that well in advance of making your mold. After I cover the model with RTV and let it set, I squeeze some Tube silicone on the RTV (not too much or it won't cure, about 1/4 to 3/8 an inch) and then place the cured strips on that. Once that cures, I top off the box with RTV, and I can assure you, the mold will look and perform as though it's 100% RTV, but at a fraction of the price.


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## Bester

I would not mind trying this method. It looks cool.


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## vc1111

Its fun Bester, but it is just another addictive aspect of this building thing. Once you make one mold, you want a dozen!


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## Bester

my wife will kill me.


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## TIGGER

Husky, What do you know about high temp. RTV............. is that the same stuff as head gasket material? I want to make my own in-line weights for Lake Erie with a little twist. I know the lead melting point is around 600 degrees. My regular stuff I have been experimenting with. I know it is not rated for that high. It started to act freaky on the second pour.

I have been researching a little. Do you or anyone else have any ideas?

Thanks
John


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## Husky

TIGGER said:


> Husky, What do you know about high temp. RTV............. is that the same stuff as head gasket material? I want to make my own in-line weights for Lake Erie with a little twist. I know the lead melting point is around 600 degrees. My regular stuff I have been experimenting with. I know it is not rated for that high. It started to act freaky on the second pour.
> 
> I have been researching a little. Do you or anyone else have any ideas?
> 
> Thanks
> John


Hey John,
You've got mail!
Use Dow Corning 3120 Red RTV. I use it to make lead head jig and sinker molds. Go to the Dow Corning site and you can find a supplier near you.


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## redheaded

Alumilite Super Casting Kit

I don't know how many people use this stuff but I picked one up on line at Hobby Lobby for 40% off $41.99 +S/H and tax till May 14. I've been wanting to make a mold for some time thought now would be a good time to try.


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## Husky

Google Dascar. They have a store on Ebay, $69 for a 14# kit of casting resin. You'll need micro spheres to get it to float.


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## yakfish

I know I just dug up an old thread! There is a ton of excellent info in here I vote for it to be made sticky.


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## TIGGER

Tom this is a thread I did long ago on making a resin bait. This may answer some of your questions.


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