# Compound help



## sirwalleye (Jul 25, 2010)

I am new to archery and I bought a used now last fall, in this offseason I have upgraded some things with a new rest, sight, arrows and broadheads. I have the bow sighted in perfectly with field points, I shoot the broadheads and every arrow goes high and right about 6 inches. Needless to say now I am lost and am not sure what I need to do to get the broadheads sighted in and obviously those are the important ones. If it helps the broadheads I am using are muzzy phantom mx 100 grain any help is greatly appreciated 


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## buckeyebowman (Feb 24, 2012)

This is not an uncommon problem for compound bow shooters. I faced the same thing myself. There seems to be 2 schools of thought about this. One is that if your broadheads (BH's) are shooting differently than your field points (FP's), you simply move your sights to compensate. The other camp is that BH's and FP's should shoot to the same point of impact from a perfectly tuned bow.

I used to belong to the first camp, but some years ago I converted to the second. As far as I'm concerned the first camp employs the "quick fix" style of thinking, while the second camp belongs to the "perfectionist" school of bow shooting. 

I would hope that I am right in assuming that you are shooting fixed blade BH's. That is my choice, and I've noticed that fixed blade BH's present more problems for the bow shooter than mechanicals. 

These problems usually boil down to 3 things. Number 1, are your arrows the proper spine (or stiffness) for your bow? If the arrows flex excessively when the string is released, that presents more of the side area of the BH to the air that the arrow is flying through. This can result in erratic flight of the arrow. The second thing is Center Shot, or how far your arrow is from the riser at full draw. If your arrow is too far, or too close, to the riser that can result in a lot of "wiggle" in your shot. The third thing is Nock Height, or how far above parallel to the rest your arrow contacts the string. Quick tip, a right angle is not always "right"! I shoot at 3/16" above parallel. 

I don't know what brand bow you shoot, but I can bet there is a forum somewhere on line that you could tap into for info. I own a Mathews and got plenty of advice on how to fix my problems with BH's. Using this info I figured it out myself, but I took a notebook and pen with me so I could document every move I made. This was in case I screwed everything up! But, it turned out OK. Now I'm confident that wherever my FP's shoot, my BH's will follow suit!


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## Homey (Apr 20, 2004)

I would recommend taking your bow to a good bow shop and paying a pro to tune your bow. Pay the extra for the full-tune (including paper tuning and broadhead). The guys a the shop should also be able to help you to verify that you are using the proper arrows (the spine reference by buckeyebowman). I did that last year and now (thanks to the tuning by the shop and improvement in my shooting technique), my fixed-blade broadheads (G5 Stryker) group right in with my field points out to 30 yards.


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## BanksideBandit (Jan 22, 2010)

Square your rest, Paper-tune, walk back tune, then broadhead tune. Google all 4 of those and do them in that order. Like buckeye said, you wont end up with your arrow and rest square but that's just a starting point. I would recommend to do it yourself as well because you may shoot differently than a shop does. Paper tune and walk back tune with fletched arrow and bare shaft.

While paper tuning if you have consistently bad tears, it's probably a spine issue but that doesnt mean that it cannot be fixed without getting new arrows. If you are over-spined, weighted inserts will weaken your spine and give you great FOC at the same time.

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## sirwalleye (Jul 25, 2010)

How far from the target should I be when paper tuning?


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## BanksideBandit (Jan 22, 2010)

Start at 2-3 yards and move back to 20.

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## BanksideBandit (Jan 22, 2010)

U get them broadheads hitting with your field points yet?

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## sirwalleye (Jul 25, 2010)

Haven't had a chance to do it yet but I'll have time tonight and tomorrow night trying to plan a wedding and working crazy hours doesn't leave much time for anything else haha


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## sirwalleye (Jul 25, 2010)

Failing miserably, I started tinkering with my bow and determined that I have weak spines arrows, that being said I backed off the draw weight a little and it made it worse so I decided to go the other way and it made it much better but now I think that I have the draw weight maxed out and I am still not hitting perfect I think I need new arrows, or is it possible that mechanical broadheads may take care of the rest of adjustment 


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## predator86 (Apr 19, 2011)

Move your rest up to adjust for different broadhead flight. Fieldpoints will stay the same.

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## BanksideBandit (Jan 22, 2010)

What bow, arrows, spine, tip weight?

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## Cajunsaugeye (Apr 9, 2013)

Find out if arrows are correctly spined and then do as stated above.Paper tune,walk back tune and broadheads tune.Its not hard.

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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

sirwalleye said:


> Failing miserably, I started tinkering with my bow and determined that I have weak spines arrows, that being said I backed off the draw weight a little and it made it worse so I decided to go the other way and it made it much better


What you experienced does not confirm an under splined arrow shaft



sirwalleye said:


> is it possible that mechanical broadheads may take care of the rest of adjustment
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Mechanical broadheads may serve to mask the underlying problem, but won't correct the problem.

I think people get way too hung up on field tips and broadheads impacting at the same exact location. A field point and a broadhead (fixed blade) have two completely aerodynamic characteristics. Why would anyone expect them to impact at exactly the same place. 

Why your broadheads are not impacting in the same location as your field points could be related to bow tune but it could just as easily be related to the flight control surfaces of the broadhead itself, the fletch size, amount of helical on the fletch, broadhead tune. AGAIN if all of your broadheads are shooting a tight little group close to where your field tips impact just adjust your sights

I don't think shooting at 20 yds gives you the full story on bow tune and broadhead tune and flight. Not that I personally condone longer shots at deer but if you stretch your comparison shooting out to 30 or even better 40 yds it will quickly expose any rest centershot, noc point, arrow or broadhead flight issues. . Shoot at 40 yds with your 20 yd pin (holding high of course) If you are hitting farther to the right at longer yardages than at shorter yardages Slightly adjust your rest center shot to where you are impacting centerline. Providing you are not canting the bow this works much better than paper tuning to establish a center shot rest setting.

If you have not tuned your broadheads I'm sure you will have a few that will not impact the same as the rest of them, this will easily be seen at longer yardages.

If your arrows with the broadheads are flying well and are all impacting at the same location and are CLOSE to where your field points impact, at close and extended ranges, adjust your sights and go kill a deer.

good luck


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## sirwalleye (Jul 25, 2010)

But the issue is that they aren't hitting anywhere near the field points. At 20 yards the broadheads are a good 8-10 inches off from the field points, I aim at the heart and I'm hitting above the rear leg on my target (I have a glendel buck) 


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## Cajunsaugeye (Apr 9, 2013)

See my reply above.Look,your bow isn't tuned properly.If it's a dual cam,a shop needs to make sure they're timed properly.After that,you need to know your EXACT draw wt and your draw length.Once you have these figured out you can make sure you have properly spined arrows.After that,proceed w/the walk back tune and broadheads tune.You CAN get your bow to shoot field points and fixed blades the same.Get on YouTube and learn both(easy to do).If you just want to kill stuff,move your sights to fit where broadheads are hitting.If you want to have full confidence in your equipment by knowing it's tuned properly and can shoot anything,put the little time and effort in.

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## Homey (Apr 20, 2004)

Take the bow to a shop and have them tune it. It is worth the $$. I did that last year and it made all the difference.

In addition to the bow being out of tune, poor form can also lead to BH not hitting the same area as field points. When I started practicing this spring, my BH were not hitting with the FPs, but after a little practice focused on form, they started grouping in with the FPs again. Same problem at first when I adjusted draw length and weight. The change threw off my form for a couple of days, and the BHs were flying consistently high relative to FPs. After a few days of practice the BHs are grouping right back in with the FPs.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

You bow may be and probably is very much out of tune but.....

Are your field tips and broadheads the same weight?

How is the arrow flight? 

What is your average group size at 20 yds with field points and broadheads?

WHY ? Think about it, if your broadheads weigh the same as your field tips, You are shooting the same out of tune bow, that same arrows, the same poundage, same release, same shooting form, same sights, same everything but broadheads impact at a different point than your field tips. What is the one and only variance? A fixed blade broadhead exhibits a different flight characteristic than a field tip, it has to, it is has flight control surfaces in it's blades. Any problems with bow tune, broadhead balance, fletch, etc, etc, is only magnified when you go from shooting field tips to fixed blade broadheads.

The early fixed blades were all solid blades, that is why vented blades came into being, to reduce the flight impact of the blades themselves. An arrow needs to be guided by the fletching on the arrow. The fletch must be able to over come any flight influence imparted by the broadhead and induce spin into the arrow. A football must spin for stable flight, a bullet must spin and an arrow must spin.

Getting your bow to shoot properly isn't all that difficult, it is much easier to get a bow shooting properly than it is to get a bowshooter shooting properly. There are multiple factors that all must be correct for you to achieve maximum performance, and you need to go and get some help from someone that knows what they are doing to get you started.

Expandable broadheads came into being primarily to address broadhead flight issues for those that didn't or still don't know how to tune their bow and arrows. They serve to mask many underlying issues rather than correct them.

Don't you have any buddies up there that bowhunt that have some basic bow knowledge that can at least get you started in the right direction? What you are trying to accomplish is not really difficult, just need to know how to do it.

Good luck


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Homey said:


> In addition to the bow being out of tune, poor form can also lead to BH not hitting the same area as field points. When I started practicing this spring, my BH were not hitting with the FPs, but after a little practice focused on form, they started grouping in with the FPs again. Same problem at first when I adjusted draw length and weight. The change threw off my form for a couple of days, and the BHs were flying consistently high relative to FPs. After a few days of practice the BHs are grouping right back in with the FPs.




Are you saying you were using different shooting form when you would shoot a field tip than when you would shot a broadhead? 

If so what made you change form with a broadhead? Was it a fear of the broadhead? Did you grip the bow differently, bow arm different, follow through, anchor point, release method change?

Just curious why form would change by adding a broadhead?


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## Homey (Apr 20, 2004)

Lundy said:


> Are you saying you were using different shooting form when you would shoot a field tip than when you would shot a broadhead?
> 
> If so what made you change form with a broadhead? Was it a fear of the broadhead? Did you grip the bow differently, bow arm different, follow through, anchor point, release method change?
> 
> Just curious why form would change by adding a broadhead?



After the first day or two of practice with just field points, I generally have 7 arrows I use for practice, 5 with field points and 2 with broadheads. I randomly select the arrows as I shoot in an effort to make my self be consistent with form regardless of the tip I am using. So, my shooting form was the same regardless of tip (at least as much the same as my ability allows).

The problem was that I had some flaws in my technique that were not readily apparent when shooting field points, but the flaws were accentuated by the broadhead. This is the same basic concept and effect as an out-of-tune bow seeming to shoot just fine with field points but getting inconsistent results with a broadhead. 

I was about ready to take the bow back in to get it re-tuned, and happened to be talking to my brother-in-law who has been bowhunting as long as I have known him (25+ years). He suggested that since I was grouping the BH in with the FP last year, but was seeing htat issue during my early practice this year, it might just be a issue with my form. Seems he was correct.


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## Lundy (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks Homey for the information


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