# Lamenting the Demise of the Markland Pool Bass Fishery



## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

*THIS IS A REPRINT OF A POST THAT I MADE IN RESPONSE TO AN EARLIER THREAD ENTITLED "Stiff Upriver Wind ........"*
_I had previously posted in that thread that four accomplished bass fishermen were out at first light from Schmidt ramp, fishing the downtown, Dayton, Ky., mouth of the Little Miami, and upriver of the I-275 bridge areas for six hours each and had two 12 inch bass and three dinks to show for our efforts. In the post below I was responding to Nicatfish (Norb's) comment that with some rain and increased current that the fishing would pick up. _

Not in the case of bass fishing. It is strictly about bass populations - they are far, few between and mostly dinks. About 10 years ago the Markland pool began to show promise. It had a good population of 12 inch fish, there was abundant bait fish in the water, and it led to the false hope that bass fishing was about to stabilize. 

Unfortunately, it has been all downhill from there. What bass fishing there is, is done in the western end of the pool and it too is pretty much lousy.

I credit this to fishery management of the river being done by four states - Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, and West Virginia.
Believe me if the Ohio River ran straight down through the state of Kentucky following I-75 we would have a moderately active bass fishery - The Fish and Wildlife folks would see to it, but as is, shared with three other states, our fishery is best left to fend for itself.

Many will say that Cumberland and the other bigger state impoundments provide good bass fishing. I strongly disagree. It is hit and miss there at best as well. I'm privleged to know what good bass fishing is, and we have nothing that remotely resembles it here in Kentucky (or southern Ohio).
I feel bad for these guys who own 200hp bass boats that fly up and down the river, or across Ceasar's Creek or East Fork in search of bass that are under siege, but it's all we have.
This is not an isolated incident of four accomplished bass fishermen having a tough day. IT HAPPENS ALL OF THE TIME.

So I will treasure my 51 days of fishing Pickwick, Tennessee and the North Channel of Ontario, Canada in the spring, and will play the horses throughout the summer, and resign myself to the fact that when I do go fishing here locally in the fall, it is simply to get out fishing, but not to expect any meaningful catching.


----------



## pppatrick (Apr 21, 2012)

personally, i don't think the ohio will ever be a decent bass fishery, its just not been groomed to be one by the ACOE. its been built to run barges, narrow and deep. its why catfish, temperate bass (white, hybrid, striper) and sauger are so much more populated. 

that said, it could still be infinitely better. theres no real consistency no matter what you're fishing for. 

if there were more back water sloughs and wet lands to allow bass to escape the high water in spring to have consistent spawning habitat, it could grow by leaps and bounds. i speak specifically of the greenup pool. though, just looking at tournament numbers, the river is abysmal from top to bottom in comparison to all other big rivers. 

1987 classic 
http://www.bassmaster.com/video/classic-xvii


----------



## Doboy (Oct 13, 2008)

Well, now you did it Pat, guys,,,,,, you woke the 'Once-upon-a-time'! ;>)
I can only WISH that you were back 'there' with me Pat!

If your going to surmise WHY, your going to have to go back to 1980, the year I got my first boat. 
A Specifically sized extra wide 16' Mirrowcraft with a console 40hp. 
I needed this boat for the River,,,, to follow & hang with my fishing friends from the S Y-town area,,,, about 10 of us.
All of the dams were there, in place,,,, the DEEP HOLES, the backwashes, coves, feeder Rivers were all the same,,,, The only major difference was the POLLUTION! The days/ TIME before the demise of the steel mills!
You couldn't eat most of the fish you caught,,,,, heck, they not only tasted like oil, they smelt like it too!
There were thick oil slicks in every backwash, coves & slack water areas,,,, you couldn't walk safely along shore after a dry spell,,,, TOO SLIPPERY! The river accually stunk from septic!
*The FISHING, was fantastic!*
We'd stop at 'Reds' on the way down to Liverpool,,,,, wait for her to open the door, & pick up about 6 dozen large fatheads.
*We usually RAN OUT OF BAIT before noon.*
lol,,,, way back then, That's when our gang learned to HATE BASS,,,, specifically SMALLMOUTH! PITA!
'RIVERPOUNDER' knows the exact spot, we talked about it on our last outing. ;>)
WE WANTED 'EYES' & SPECS! (after all, they didn't STINK so bad!)
You couldn't get a bait down through the millions of voracious smallies.
We'd start our drift up along 'The Bricks', pass the Brickworks point, & end up down by the barge tie off cells.
Ohio side,,,, start way up along the barge wall, or inside of the lock & work your way down along the rip-rap, down to the 'trees'. Catching bass was almost TOO easy.
If the Flow, drift-speed & amount of jig weight was right, you had a smallie on every time you hit bottom!
50-60 bass landed,,,, before noon! 1-3#ers were the norm, with an occasional 4#er to snap your line!
Carpal tunnel city! 
My friends knew when to catch the real HOGS,,,, they would bobber fish the flooded timber during high water, or cast the feeder rivers. (ain't it right Cumminsmoke?  lol)
Crappie,,,, HUGE slab crappies! Somedays,100 per boat! MAN I long for another day like 'then'!
All you had to do is quietly tie-off to a barge cell that still had water flowing all around it. Start to drop a jig & minnie, & WHAM,,, fish on! No PROBLEM bringing home a 5 gallon bucket full,,,, every trip down!

I've noticed the steady decline in numbers, through the years. ???????????

NOW, our favorite spawning coves & backwashes are CHOKED with healthy weeds,,,,
NOW,,, You can barely SMELL the river,,,,The oil slicks are gone,,,, the visibility improved x 10!
SO,,,,, HOW THE HECK could all of those fish flourish back then, in that cesspool of a River?
Now,,, just about everybody is complaining,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
IT JUST DON'T COMPUTE!


----------



## Thompy04 (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm a "basser", but fish the river for anything she'll give me. I believe, and agree with Doboy, the pollution is nowhere near what it used to be by any means. I'm a believer of the introduction of the Zebra Muscle also contributed to the water clarity that we see when the current dies as well. This in correlation with a couple of good shad spawns have upped the population of Smallies where if fish. I also have noticed many good fish coming "offshore" in a predominantly backwater fishing pool. You gotta find em, but the river has what you need if you think outside the box. I fish the Greenup and upper part of Meldahl pools.


----------



## Skip2myalou (Apr 2, 2013)

At least the bass are protected. Alot better situation than the catfish have.

And, for reasons I have never known, bass guys shun live bait. Guess BASSMASTERS rules have to be followed while out trying to catch fish on a random day. Try dropping some big minnows or shiners in the backwaters. I don't bass fish but I catch tons of 2-4 pound bass when I'm out crappie fishing. Slow down presentation and fish vertically over tight cover slowly with a minnow. It'll produce. Try heading downriver to Indiana too. A tons of backwater and good creeks on Indiana and Kentucky side from Lawrenceburg to Markland Dam. See more Ohio tags in the parking lots than Indiana tags on most days.


----------



## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

well, if you fish rivers, youll soon learn the best places to hold fish are where the pollution is, sewage discharges, warm water discharges, coal plant discharges all hold an amazing number of fish, as do dams where migrations are stopped and predators follow them where its a slaughter every dusk and dawn. Now with that said, I catfish the river in the same Markland pool and can tell you that not only has the bass fishing declined but also the, white bass, hybrid striper fishing as well as the bigger catfish, now the catfish population was decimated by the commercial fishermen looking for every breedable sized fish to put in paylakes. people think, "they certainly cant take them all" but darn near... its amazing what a 500 hook trotline out 200 days a year and dozens of hoopnets can do day in and day out, with no restrictions and worse yet, no enforcement, the commercial guys have indeed wiped 80% of the big fish out of the river. Now , you ask, how does that effect the river balance? good question but you would think that would mean more bait fish for others to eat and that should help the bass but I believe the problem is that we had several very high spring waters which decimated 3 out of the 5 last years for spawns of shad and even skipjack. now we notice the white bass and mature skipjack numbers are also down as the hybrids, but at least this year we had a phenomenal spawn of shad and skipjack in the river and I will bet you will see the bass, crappies, white bass, hybrids and everything else that's eats them start to put on a good growth spurt, bottom line is the same years we have good spawns for shad and baitfish, is the same years that everything else has a good spawn so its mother natures way of evening out the available fish for the amount of food in the water, it runs in cycles and if were lucky enough to get 3-4 years in a row of good spawn cycles, then the fisheries will start to explode and that's what we all need to happen. so far were on a good roll with 2 decent years behind us, now most species spawn on there 3rd or 4th and 5 th year of age so if we get a a good spring next year, it will be a pivotal year in the rebuilding of the whole fishery. Keep your fingers crossed that next spring is a good year with some but not crazy high waters as whats good for the bass is good for everything...

Salmonid


----------



## 9Left (Jun 23, 2012)

nicely put Mark


----------



## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

Some of the best river fishing I have ever experienced was about 15 years ago, when Ohio and West Virginia put on a cooperative hybrid striper stocking program, which provided incredible fishing for about five years. They then went to a Saugeye stocking program, and (in my opinion) the hybrid fishing has diminished ever since.


----------



## I Fish (Sep 24, 2008)

My opinion is it has as much to do with all the silt flowing into the backwaters. I know of 2 that are drastically shallower than ever before, as in they have lost a good 2 feet of depth. I know they fluctuate with the river, but, I also know how deep they were in the past at any given river level, and now there are numerous abandoned docks, hell, one whole campground. All that silt isn't conducive to bass spawning. The way the CoE holds back flood water, the streams that form the backwaters never get a chance to flow, and all the silt just settles out.

I also read one time that the common carp was the nemesis of bass spawn. All the silt they stir up smothers the eggs. I believe Musky and Pike, which used to be abundant in the river are also negatively affected by the silt. 

My family used to have a camp on the river. When my Mom was young, they used to walk out on a sand and gravel bar to swim. That was before the dams that are currently in place. That bar is still there, only under about 8 feet of water. I've fished it before and now it's, you guessed it, silt.


----------



## G3guy (Feb 21, 2013)

BMustang said:


> Some of the best river fishing I have ever experienced was about 15 years ago, when Ohio and West Virginia put on a cooperative hybrid striper stocking program, which provided incredible fishing for about five years. They then went to a Saugeye stocking program, and (in my opinion) the hybrid fishing has diminished ever since.


Ohio and West Virginia still stock hybrid stripers. Saugeye are not stocked into the Ohio river by either state. Not saying that the saugeye don't end up in the Ohio through drawdowns of Ohio lakes connected to the Ohio river watershed. To my knowledge West Virginia doesn't even stock saugeye anywhere.


----------



## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

G3guy said:


> Ohio and West Virginia still stock hybrid stripers. Saugeye are not stocked into the Ohio river by either state. Not saying that the saugeye don't end up in the Ohio through drawdowns of Ohio lakes connected to the Ohio river watershed. To my knowledge West Virginia doesn't even stock saugeye anywhere.


I'm talking 15-20 years ago now.
I am glad to hear that Ohio/West Va are continuing to stock hybrids. I guess someone must be since they don't reproduce naturally.
However, something has changed in those 15/20 years. Back then you could fish the Meldahl lock wall and catch numerous hybrids of sturdy size in an outing, or wade off of the sandbar on the Kentucky side just as the sun was setting and catch them one after another. It was crazy. It was like a sickness. Get off work, hustle up to the dam, catch them and catch them, and then come back and do the same thing again the next night, and the next night and the next night.

I know that I can't expect to ever again duplicate those conditions. It was an aberration, but fun while it lasted. However, it would be nice to catch 2 or 3 an outing present day.


----------



## pppatrick (Apr 21, 2012)

hahaha i was typing that and saying to myself "i can't wait until jerry tells me to hop in the delorean"  

if only! every old timer i run into asks me why i bother fishing this big ditch so much and how they pulled buckets upon buckets outta the river 80's and earlier. 

my uncle did a bit of tournament fishing down in se oh/ohio river, the one time i went out with him and my cousin on the rcb pool in the early 90's, he went on and on about their not being any fish in the river anymore! caught 4 dinks on no11 gold and black original rapala, my uncle caught a big large mouth in raccoon creek. then got home to the southern wv mountains and back to catching 10 fish an hour in the streams 

@Thompy04 i thought it was just me, but smallmouth have dominated my catch the past couple years. prior to that it was spots, ky bass 8 of 10. 

i'd like to see a biologists opinion on what they believe to be the issue. is it a possibility that the introduction of the hybrid white bass has anything to do with the dwindled population of native black bass in the ecosystem. hybrids are veracious feeders. i just want to see a timeline here. all the old timers seem to have smashed native fish prior to their introduction. that said, i really don't think there is a single answer. but i do believe its something we as humans have created. the money of the river is never going to be made from fisherman, its always gonna be that of commercial enterprise. 

its gonna be a waste land after they start fracking it anyway. might as well kiss this big creek goodbye.


----------



## joebertin (Mar 26, 2010)

The river is changing, same thing at Lake Erie. Clearer water is going to change the ecosystem, behavior and populations of the fish. Changes in the system will occur with and without man's intervention. I've seen the perch and walleye population studies of Erie, which seem to be less than accurate because the trawling method samples such a small area of the lake. As fishermen we know that the fish can be here today, and gone tomorrow. The published populations seem to lack accuracy.

Here is the way they do it on the Ohio River:
http://www.orsanco.org/biological-programs/10-mainpages/orsanco-programs/116-fish-population

It seems difficult to find any definitive information regarding fish populations in the Ohio segment of the river. So it's hard to determine if the fish are gone, or the old methods don't work.

We also have a tendency to rely on past spots and methods, which may diminish in efficiency when the ecosystem changes. It's kind of frustrating to discover a productive pattern, only to have it fall apart after a period of time.

The older I get, the more I see this happening in many aspects of life. Finding a new solution, seems to be the only productive answer.


----------



## cadyshac (Dec 9, 2005)

Lol, all you guys are right, no fish in the river anymore so all of you get on to finding another fishing hole. Don't worry I will let you know when the fishing picks up again............

On a serious note, KY allowing the commercial fishing of the river needs to stop!


----------



## BMustang (Jul 27, 2004)

To both the above posts - Points well taken.
First of all I am referring to "fish who hit artificial baits." Bass, Whites, Hybrids, Stripers.
I actually have little trouble catching catfish, including sizeable flatties, IF the conditions are right.

I fish different stretches of the river, primarily the Markland Dam area, Downtown Cincinnati from Paul Brown Stadium upriver to Belterra Park, and the New Richmond area from the old New Richmond Dam to Meldahl Dam.

Let me assure you that all of the changed tactics in the world aren't going to improve productivity, short of dynamite, or maybe live bait and either of those isn't likely to happen.

You are assuming the fish are there and we don't know how to catch them. Like the fish we caught here 20 years ago were just dumb asses, and those today rely on high-tech methods to avoid getting caught.

You notice there are no big time Bass Tournaments on this stretch of the Ohio River. The one they had here was a disaster.

If there are little or no fish, I don't care what methods you use, including dynamite, that will conjure them up.

Six hour trips, conducted by multiple veteran bass fishermen should yield more than a few dinks - period!.


----------



## Salmonid (Apr 14, 2004)

Ironically we can not get a national trail catfish tourney on the markland pool because catch rates are so low. Another large tournament was near Rising Sun and had pretty good weights this year and the local club weights have improved a bit this year over the last 2 but thats because folks have changed the way they fish. Now folks are targeting pods of smaller fish and weeding through them to come up with 40-50 lbs total which for 5 fish will put you in the money in most tourneys. Not like the good ole days where it always took 100-120 lbs for 5 fish. Again we see some smaller fish but the big ones are few and far between


----------



## Doboy (Oct 13, 2008)

*HELLO HATCHETMAN,,,,,,Pete,,, WHERE ARE YOU?,,, can you help us with this one?*

Friend Pete & or his friends, should be able to produce stats, maybe even a graph of sorts, showing daily creel check totals,,,,, LIKE maybe over the last 10 years.?

Those stats would be very-very interesting!
I'll send him a PM,,, an Email,,,, see if I can get him involved!


----------

