# Evinrude Lightwin



## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

I bought a boat last fall, from an estate sale, that came with a "locked up" 1950's Evinrude Lightwin 3hp. It hadn't been run since 1976, the last year the boat was registered. For the heck of it, I decided to mess around with it today to see if it was truly seized.... It wasn't! So I went out and bought a gallon of gas & some 2 cycle oil and tried to fire it up. After about 10 minutes, I got it to turn over and run!

Right off the bat I noticed it wasn't pumping water, so I took it apart and saw that the impeller was broken. Roughly how much are these? What exactly does the water even cool?

Also, getting the right ratio between the 2 carb knobs is quite tricky, (especially since all of the writing has been worn off!) and I could tell it wasn't actually at full throttle (compared to hearing a properly tuned one on youtube.) Anyone know the method behind adjusting the 2 knobs?

Thanks!


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

starting spot for low speed needle valve 1 1/4 turns out-starting spot for the high speed needle valve would be 3/4 turn out- once motor is running try to give near full throttle and then adjust high speed needle valve first-more than likely you will be turning clockwise and leaning out the needle valve- then 2nd try to get motor to run slow as possible and do the same adjustment with the low speed needle valve clockwise- i have had motors in the past actually had to turn counter clockwise to fatten up the gas flow. make sure your packing nuts are snugged down other wise adjustment will be hard to get-you might want to get new needle valve packings-good luck low speed top high speed bottom


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

impeller cost $15.00 to $25.00


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

johnrude said:


> starting spot for *low speed* needle valve 1 1/4 turns out-starting spot for the *low speed* needle valve would be 3/4 turn out


Probably a typo, but you mentioned low speed needle valve twice?

And unfortunately, all of the writing has been worn off so I don't know which needle is which... Is the bigger one on the bottom the high speed?

Also, what exactly am I looking for when adjusting the valves? Will it be an obvious rpm difference when adjusted correctly?

Thanks for the info!!!!!


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

low speed top and high speed bottom and yes the motor will change with adjustment. turn needle an 1/8th of a turn and wait a minute for motor to change how it is running and keep trying you must wait a minute or so between adjustments to let needle do its job.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Thanks again, I appreciate it! I'll hopefully be picking up an impeller from somewhere tomorrow....I'll let you know how it turns out!


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

I didn't see anyone else answer this. The water cools your engine. The impeller pulls the water in, pumps it up to the heads and then down and out the pisser. You should not be running your engine long without the water flowing out the back. It is there as a visual so you know the engine is being cooled properly. 

Rickerd


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Thanks Rickerd!

I put the impeller in today, and it now pumps water great. However, I still can't get it to throttle up all the way to save my life. At full throttle, it only sounds to be around half throttle or so. Sometimes you can tell it really really wants to go higher, but always goes back. It also dies after I move the throttle only a few inches to the left.

I was out there for 3 hours trying to adjust the needles, pulled the bottom of the carb and checked the float (which was in working order) and blew everything out with air. Everything I tried did nothing for the throttle issue. It *will* run until I turn it off though, so I'm pretty confused.

What else is there to check, and would it even be worth it?


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## FISHERBALL (Apr 7, 2004)

http://forums.iboats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24 Post your question there.


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

have you checked your spark and clean and reset your points !


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## BrianSipe17 (Aug 5, 2006)

You may need to change the points and coil, too. That could be impacting the way it runs and are cheap fixes. Those parts are cheap through iboats. It sounds more like the needles need adjusted though. You won't be able to find the sweet spot, until the low idle is dialed in.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Sadly, I have no idea what "points" even are!!! 

But I tried and tried to dial in the low speed to no avail... No matter where the needle is, it doesn't affect the rpm's in the slightest. I can get the high speed to fluctuate, and can even get it to RIGHT where it ALMOST revs up, but bogs back down right away. Kinda like its starving for fuel or something!

It's like the motor only has one speed. Throttle doesn't do much at all, unless you move it down to about 3/4 of full then it sputters and shuts off.

I haven't checked spark, only because I assumed it was fine since it starts up well.... I'm sorry, if you couldn't tell, I'm a total newbie when it comes to outboards!

I really do appreciate the help from all of you though!


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## BrianSipe17 (Aug 5, 2006)

whjr15 said:


> Sadly, I have no idea what "points" even are!!!
> 
> But I tried and tried to dial in the low speed to no avail... No matter where the needle is, it doesn't affect the rpm's in the slightest. I can get the high speed to fluctuate, and can even get it to RIGHT where it ALMOST revs up, but bogs back down right away. Kinda like its starving for fuel or something!
> 
> ...


The good news is I was in the same boat as you just a couple years ago. One 57 Evinrude 7.5 HP and one 61 Johnson 18 HP helped me learn quite a bit by just taking it apart and tinkering. I would suggest buying a tune-up kit that includes points, condenser, and coil... it should set you back under $20. Buy a harmonic balance puller from harbor freight for a few bucks (to pull the flywheel) and a cheap feeler guage for setting the points and hit up youtube for how to do it... that's what I did. It's really easy, trust me. It's a matter of removing a few screws. My Evinrude had the exact same symptoms! When you finally do get the needles set where you want them, mark them with a line of paint on top, so you know roughly where it was set for the next time you take it apart. One other question... are you using an original pressurized tank? That is a must for that motor, unless someone retrofit a fuel pump on it.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

BrianSipe17 said:


> One other question... are you using an original pressurized tank? That is a must for that motor, unless someone retrofit a fuel pump on it.


Yes, its got a built in gravity-fed tank on top. Everything on the motor appears to be original.

I like the idea of marking the needles! You better believe I will be marking them when I finally get them dialed in!!!


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## BrianSipe17 (Aug 5, 2006)

whjr15 said:


> Yes, its got a built in gravity-fed tank on top. Everything on the motor appears to be original.
> 
> I like the idea of marking the needles! You better believe I will be marking them when I finally get them dialed in!!!


Oh yeah, I forgot the small HP motors had the built-in tank. Keep at it and you'll get it.


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## peple of the perch (Sep 13, 2004)

U might as well give the carb a clean first and see if that affects anything. Its a little easier and probably needs to be cleaned anyways. A tune up kit with new points coils and condenser would cost more like $80-$100.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

peple of the perch said:


> U might as well give the carb a clean first and see if that affects anything. Its a little easier and probably needs to be cleaned anyways. A tune up kit with new points coils and condenser would cost more like $80-$100.


Yeah, I've already opened it and "cleaned" it out... It was absolutely spotless to begin with, which is why I'm confused as to the problem.

I'm going to check spark today after work to make sure both cylinders are even firing.


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## rickerd (Jul 16, 2008)

Are you putting it in gear to check the revs, or in neutral? I think some of the older outboards may not rev as high in neutral. Just make sure you have enough water in the barrell to put it in gear. Sounds like you are on the right track. 

Rickerd


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## BrianSipe17 (Aug 5, 2006)

peple of the perch said:


> U might as well give the carb a clean first and see if that affects anything. Its a little easier and probably needs to be cleaned anyways. A tune up kit with new points coils and condenser would cost more like $80-$100.


Actually, you can find the coil on ebay (new) for under $15 and the condensers/points kit under $20


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

rickerd said:


> Are you putting it in gear to check the revs, or in neutral? I think some of the older outboards may not rev as high in neutral. Just make sure you have enough water in the barrell to put it in gear. Sounds like you are on the right track.
> 
> Rickerd


There is no neutral or reverse on this particular engine.

But I bought some new plugs today just to see if that would help, and it did -- not very much, but it was definitely noticeable. I could throttle lower before stall, and top end seemed a tad bit stronger.

Disappointed that the new plugs didn't do the trick, I reluctantly took off the gas tank and flywheel to have a look inside...And what did I find? *Coils that were cracked to oblivion!* Some chunks were even missing and/or laying around inside. Points and condensers looked good though, with the points still maintaining their .020 gap.

I'll be ordering new coils tomorrow for sure! Do you guys think that will be the end to all my problems?!  I'll post another update once I put those in. 

Still can't believe that after 35 years of sitting, this thing started up with only a fresh tank of gas, and some patience... Then after I awoke it from its hibernation, started the 1st or 2nd pull every time!!

Once again, thanks guys!!


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

where are you buying your parts ? how much was the impeller ? i could give you a hand you need to make sure the coils are mounted correctly-cut back the spark plug wire back a 1/2 inch before attaching the coil-you must set the coil back from the edge of the bosses that it mounts to just enough. and there are other things to do to ensure great spark while you have it that far apart.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

johnrude said:


> where are you buying your parts ? how much was the impeller ? i could give you a hand you need to make sure the coils are mounted correctly-cut back the spark plug wire back a 1/2 inch before attaching the coil-you must set the coil back from the edge of the bosses that it mounts to just enough. and there are other things to do to ensure great spark while you have it that far apart.


I've been going to West Marine downtown, since I'm only a couple blocks away from it this week during the day. He said the coils would have to be shipped, and I will most likely get them Friday. The impeller was 15 something after tax.

I took a couple pics of how they were attached before I took them out, so I wouldn't put the new ones on wrong!


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Ok, so here's the deal.

Got the coils today, and put them in. Started it up, only to find no significant difference.  Compared to the sound of the engine on youtube, I'm still not achieving true full throttle.... Or maybe the video's sound is just misleading me?

Just for kicks, I put my 40lb trolling motor in the barrel to compare the water motion to the Lightwin -- and they're pretty much equal. 

I would think a properly running 3hp should kick up more water, no?


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

did you do a compression test ? i am thinking carb needs a real cleaning ! it might have looked clean by your eye but it has little passages that could clog very easily.and be semi clogged is why it is running but not as good as it should.i can look in my service manual but what is the model no. ?


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## DaleM (Apr 5, 2004)

The oil ratio is 16-1 for that year. My '56 was the same. You should be able to get most of your parts trough NAPA. They carry a great deal of parts. Sounds like West Marine has been good so far.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Model number is 3015.

Really seems like a helluva motor though, like the Little Engine That Could!! That's why its now my goal to get it running to its full potential!

I did not do a compression test, as I don't have the equipment (or know-how) to do so. Everything I've learned about outboards has came from this thread and google! So I have a total of about 4 days experience repairing them! lol. It seems to at least have decent compression though, since there's a big difference (way easier) when I pulled the string when the plugs were out (to check spark). The other thing I noticed was it is slow to respond, pretty sluggish. If I go from as low as it will idle straight to "full", it takes a couple seconds.

But yeah, I can't say enough about West Marine... So far they've went above and beyond on the customer service front.


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## DontForgetTheDrainPlug (Mar 3, 2010)

You can check at Autozone to see if they have compression gauges in their loan-a-tool program....or you could buy one for about $10-15 I would guess.

Simple to do ....remove both spark plugs.....and depending on the fitting on the gauge, either screw it in the plug hole or press the fitting in and hold....and pull the starter rope. You need 2 people if you have the push in fitting.

Pull the rope to crank the motor over several times and read the gauge. Remember to "release" the reading on the gauge when going from 1 cylinder to another.

I'm sure you can find videos on youtube showing the procedure too.


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## BrianSipe17 (Aug 5, 2006)

Try running seafoam through it, too. That may clear out some gunk. It still really sounds like the carb not set correct, though. Did you replace the plug wires, too, or just the coil?


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

1955 and yes you should be using a 16-1 mix of gas and oil.and seafoam is a product i use in all my tanks and for every motor. you could bring it to my place and we could look at it.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

I think I may take you up on that offer John, as I don't really know how to troubleshoot it anymore.. Or even what it should REALLY sound like (in real life) if running correctly.

I've been using 16:1, and only replaced the coils themselves, not wires.


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## JIG (Nov 2, 2004)

Make sure you have comp. on both. Pull the plugs an hold your finger over the hole. If so ground each plug so you can check for spark. Sounds like your firing 1 cly. Easy to test! Hook up a clip an wire to ground the plug. One at a time with both removed. Let me know what ya find.


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

Well it's about time I had some good news to report!!! Went and bought that Seafoam stuff you guys recommended, and ran it through for about an hour or so. Disappointed I saw no major improvement, I turned it off, went inside to grab something to drink, and came back out. Turned it back on, and to my AMAZEMENT, it was like a COMPLETELY different motor!!!!! 

Here's how it ran before Seafoam:








And after:








Thanks again all of you for the help -- I really appreciate it!!


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## JimmyZ (May 18, 2004)

Wow! that thing sounds great. Go to iboats.com and do a search for decarbing your outboard. There is a mixture on there and how to do it. It will get all the gunk out of it. I used the seamfoam in a can for my '74 Johnson and with a new coil it runs great.


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## peple of the perch (Sep 13, 2004)

Sea foam is one awesome product. Glad to hear u got her running. Watch out though because when it comes to vintage outboards you cant have just one. lol


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

seafoam will decarbon the motor as it is ran


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## whjr15 (Jun 16, 2005)

peple of the perch said:


> Sea foam is one awesome product. Glad to hear u got her running. Watch out though because when it comes to vintage outboards you cant have just one. lol


Haha yeah, I can already tell that I've caught the fever lol.

Not a bad motor at all for well less than a hundred bucks into it! Plus it was fun working on it, and a great sense of accomplishment once it finally ran well!


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## JIG (Nov 2, 2004)

Good to hear ya got it going! This Seasfoam good for 2 stroke/fuel inj?
My Bomb needs de-carboned but Rude doesnt want anything but there oil in it. Says it has de-carbon agents in it. Itll use a set of plugs a yr.


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

i have a friend who is ahead of the local road department and he uses it in everything.john deere equipment,all lawn mowers and tractors all diesel truck motors and his own stuff at home. i use it in all my outboards,my craftsman tractor,lawn mower and weed eater. my antique outboard club talks about it all the time. i am a believer. deep creep is another sea foam spray product sort of like a wd 40 but better.


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## BrianSipe17 (Aug 5, 2006)

great news! It really does give you a sense of accomplishment. I would run seafoam in it quite regularly. Running those things 16:1 has to create extra "gunk" Maybe Johnrude can comment, but I read somewhere that you can actually run them 24:1 these days, because the oil is different than the oil was when those motors were new.


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

16-1 is the only way to run them. i would not take the chance.


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## johnrude (Mar 29, 2009)

i just looked this up in a service manual for 1925 to 1959 johnson and evinrudes. anything pre 1949 is 16-1.any motor under 10 h.p. 1950 to 1964 are 16-1 motors they are a bronze bushing motor. all 10 h.p. and up motors are needle bearing motors and run 24-1.all motors 1965 and newer are supposedly 50-1 but i use 40-1. if your motor has good spark and a clean carb that is adjusted right all this oil is no problem.hope this helps.


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